# The American Political Thread



## bryanc

Something I've noted several times is that, while most of us agree it's important to be informed about Canadian politics and to be an engaged citizen, the fact is that Canadian politics are generally pretty boring (this can be a good thing, IMO). The Americans, on the other hand, have turned the dysfunction of their political system into an entertainment industry (although it appears Harper, et al., are determined to reduce the Canadian system to the same level).

So I thought I'd start a thread for discussion of the Reality TV show they call American Politics.

I'll start with this posting I saw on another forum, with respect to the Republican's policies on women's health care, especially with regard to contraception and abortion:


> After years and years and years of specifically targeting homophobes, racists, bigots, religious zealots, anti-intellectuals and sociopaths why should we be at all shocked that the GOP picked up a ****load of misogynists along the way?


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## BigDL

Politics is one of the reasons I often refer to "in the Excited States." 

A winner, take all/no prisoners mind set, that I just can't comprehend.

After the GOP candidates finish slagging each other, why would anyone, vote for any of the sorry lot of mis-fits?


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## Macfury

BigDL said:


> After the GOP candidates finish slagging each other, why would anyone, vote for any of the sorry lot of mis-fits?


Because Obama is the sitting president.


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## Dr.G.

I see Romney pulling it out ........ just ............ after the California primary. Then we shall see if the Republicans dislike Romney more than they dislike Pres. Obama. They would need to come together and get behind their candidate and not do what the Democrats did in 1968 that resulted in the election of Richard Nixon. We shall see.

Of course, if the Tea Party, or the social conservatives, or Ron Paul decides to run as a third party, then all bets are off the table, since I feel that this will help Pres. Obama win a second term. If the Republicans unify, it shall be a close race. I shall still be voting for Pres. Obama in the State of Georgia, although I doubt he will win this state in that he lost it back in 2008.


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## CubaMark

*Don't forget the wildcards...*

*Palin: I'll Be at the RNC Convention, Door is Not Closed*












> *VERCAMMEN: * It's the open convention question. If we wind up with an open convention and someone wants to place your name, throw your name into the hat, would you stop them? Would you be open to that?
> 
> *PALIN:* As I say, anything is possible. And I don't close any doors that perhaps would be open out there. So, no, I wouldn't close that door. And my plan is to be at that convention.


(TownHall.com 6 March 2012)


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## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Don't forget the wildcards...*
> 
> *Palin: I'll Be at the RNC Convention, Door is Not Closed*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (TownHall.com 6 March 2012)


CM, that ticket is enough to give me nightmares.


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## kps

Excuse the language pls, but I've been dying to use this...


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## Dr.G.

Lord knows what she would have to say/do to Pres. Bush who really sent the US down this path. I still like David Frum's analogy of Pres. Bush driving the car into a wall and quickly getting out of the burning wreck and throwing the keys to Pres.-elect Obama.


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## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Lord knows what she would have to say/do to Pres. Bush who really sent the US down this path. I still like David Frum's analogy of Pres. Bush driving the car into a wall and quickly getting out of the burning wreck and throwing the keys to Pres.-elect Obama.


I completely agree. But to be fair, the story continues with Obama not only paying the bill for repairing the wrecked car, but also buying the Garage and paying for all the mechanics to go on holiday.


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## kps

bryanc said:


> I completely agree. But to be fair, the story continues with Obama not only paying the bill for repairing the wrecked car, but also buying the Garage and paying for all the mechanics to go on holiday.


+100

Not much difference between the two...'muhrika is doomed.


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## groovetube

well, perhaps. Except hopefully we will have less of the religious fanatics running around screaming that babys born from rape are blessings, and the country being run by d-bags who made their fortunes gutting and putting people out of work. Just to point out a few.


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## Macfury

Hatred of Obama will unite the non-Dems behind whomever the Republicans choose.

Third party candidate? How long has it been since a third-party candidate elected anyone to Congress? Would be nice to see more Green Party candidates eat into Obama's support regardless.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I completely agree. But to be fair, the story continues with Obama not only paying the bill for repairing the wrecked car, but also buying the Garage and paying for all the mechanics to go on holiday.


I had trouble with the bailouts of the banks, but I understood the reasoning behind it in terms of the "too big to fail" domino effect it might have brought about upon the world. I do resent VERY MUCH those responsible for this financial crisis walking away with huge bonuses. :greedy:tptptptp

The bailout of the auto industry made a bit more sense. 

All in all, I feel that things would be worse in the US had McCain won the election in 2008. Still, it is going to be a close election this time around if Romney is the Republican nominee.

Paix, mon ami.


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## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I had trouble with the bailouts of the banks, but I understood the reasoning behind it in terms of the "too big to fail" domino effect it might have brought about upon the world. I do resent VERY MUCH those responsible for this financial crisis walking away with huge bonuses. :greedy:tptptptp
> 
> The bailout of the auto industry made a bit more sense.
> 
> All in all, I feel that things would be worse in the US had McCain won the election in 2008. Still, it is going to be a close election this time around if Romney is the Republican nominee.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Agreed G, it's astounding how truly naive people can be to think that simply turnin off the taps would solve things after the republicans drive the economy deep in the ditch. Much less that it could be solved, in one term. But, Obama and his dems have a few things to answer for, first for extending the greedy rich tax cuts.


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## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Agreed G, it's astounding how truly naive people can be to think that simply turnin off the taps would solve things after the republicans drive the economy deep in the ditch. Much less that it could be solved, in one term. But, Obama and his dems have a few things to answer for, first for extending the greedy rich tax cuts.


Sadly, the seeds were laid for the leveraged derivative instruments for things like mortgages long before Pres. Obama was elected. These deregulations go back to the Reagan years, and even during Clinton's administration with the "Contract for America" which was brought about by the Republican-controlled Congress. It was extended during Bush's administration ................ and bore fruit just as he left office. Both Obama and McCain were called to the White House to be informed of the severity of the crisis, and then when Bush turned over $700 billion to the banking industry, there was little in terms of accounting as to what the money was to be used for in the final analysis.

Luckily, the 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act has helped put some stops to these sorts of give aways and non-accountable funds being sent to Wall Street. Still, it has not gone far enough, in my opinion.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Lord knows what she would have to say/do to Pres. Bush who really sent the US down this path. I still like David Frum's analogy of Pres. Bush driving the car into a wall and quickly getting out of the burning wreck and throwing the keys to Pres.-elect Obama.


I have always disliked David Frum, who has been a closet liberal for a decade. As much as I disliked George Bush, I would have rather held my nose and seen him in charge during the last four years, than the human trainwreck who followed.


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## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, the seeds were laid for the leveraged derivative instruments for things like mortgages long before Pres. Obama was elected. These deregulations go back to the Reagan years, and even during Clinton's administration with the "Contract for America" which was brought about by the Republican-controlled Congress. It was extended during Bush's administration ................ and bore fruit just as he left office. Both Obama and McCain were called to the White House to be informed of the severity of the crisis, and then when Bush turned over $700 billion to the banking industry, there was little in terms of accounting as to what the money was to be used for in the final analysis.
> 
> Luckily, the 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act has helped put some stops to these sorts of give aways and non-accountable funds being sent to Wall Street. Still, it has not gone far enough, in my opinion.


The continued pandering to corporate america (a broad brush I know) has to end. I had hopes that the dems would really put a stop to the gorging, but they merely showed they can be a part of it too. 

But a move to put the republicans in full power at this point, will truly destroy anything that's left in America.


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## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The continued pandering to corporate america (a broad brush I know) has to end. I had hopes that the dems would really put a stop to the gorging, but they merely showed they can be a part of it too.
> 
> But a move to put the republicans in full power at this point, will truly destroy anything that's left in America.


Easier said than done, gt. With the Tea Party holding the Republican Party hostage, and with the Republicans holding power in the House of Rep., it is tough to get things done in Congress. This is where it will be interesting to see what sort of Congress is elected in Nov. along with who shall be elected president. We shall see.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Easier said than done, gt. With the Tea Party holding the Republican Party hostage, and with the Republicans holding power in the House of Rep., it is tough to get things done in Congress. This is where it will be interesting to see what sort of Congress is elected in Nov. along with who shall be elected president. We shall see.


How tough was it to get things done when the Democrats controlled the House and Senate? This is a weak excuse for the Obama administration.


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## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Easier said than done, gt. With the Tea Party holding the Republican Party hostage, and with the Republicans holding power in the House of Rep., it is tough to get things done in Congress. This is where it will be interesting to see what sort of Congress is elected in Nov. along with who shall be elected president. We shall see.


isn't the election for congress/house 2 years after the presidential election?

Something tells me that of Obama does get in, America will still want a republican congress.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> How tough was it to get things done when the Democrats controlled the House and Senate?


I agree. The Dems should've ended the tax breaks for the rich, implemented universal health insurance, and rammed through much more of their agenda when they had the chance. But Obama tried to be "centrist" and compromise, not realizing that when you offer a compromise to the Republicans, they just move to a more extreme position, forcing you further to the Right in order to "meet in the middle."

So the Dem's played it badly and wound up squandering their power doing nothing. The Republicans made fools of them. However, the Republicans have also shown that they are not interested in negotiating in good faith, and do not have the interests of the country at heart; they're all about power for themselves and their rich cronies, and they can't hide that anymore.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I agree. The Dems should've ended the tax breaks for the rich, implemented universal health insurance, and rammed through much more of their agenda when they had the chance. But Obama tried to be "centrist" and compromise, not realizing that when you offer a compromise to the Republicans, they just move to a more extreme position, forcing you further to the Right in order to "meet in the middle."
> 
> So the Dem's played it badly and wound up squandering their power doing nothing. The Republicans made fools of them. However, the Republicans have also shown that they are not interested in negotiating in good faith, and do not have the interests of the country at heart; they're all about power for themselves and their rich cronies, and they can't hide that anymore.


I saw none of this supposed compromise. I remember Obama telling the Republicans "they could sit in back." All I saw was a ditherer unable to push his agenda despite having all his ducks in a row, then blaming the outnumbered Republicans for his failure.


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## groovetube

bryanc said:


> I agree. The Dems should've ended the tax breaks for the rich, implemented universal health insurance, and rammed through much more of their agenda when they had the chance. But Obama tried to be "centrist" and compromise, not realizing that when you offer a compromise to the Republicans, they just move to a more extreme position, forcing you further to the Right in order to "meet in the middle."
> 
> So the Dem's played it badly and wound up squandering their power doing nothing. The Republicans made fools of them. However, the Republicans have also shown that they are not interested in negotiating in good faith, and do not have the interests of the country at heart; they're all about power for themselves and their rich cronies, and they can't hide that anymore.


+1

nice.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How tough was it to get things done when the Democrats controlled the House and Senate? This is a weak excuse for the Obama administration.


Very tough unless a party has 60 seats in the Senate ............ and the Democrats had 59.


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## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> isn't the election for congress/house 2 years after the presidential election?
> 
> Something tells me that of Obama does get in, America will still want a republican congress.


True. In the 2010 congressional elections, the Tea Party gained a few dozen seats in the House. They put fear into the hearts of the other Republicans and put the nation in a stranglehold. This is why that even though I don't support Rep. Ron Paul's views, at least he has been honest and consistent with his views.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I agree. The Dems should've ended the tax breaks for the rich, implemented universal health insurance, and rammed through much more of their agenda when they had the chance. But Obama tried to be "centrist" and compromise, not realizing that when you offer a compromise to the Republicans, they just move to a more extreme position, forcing you further to the Right in order to "meet in the middle."
> 
> So the Dem's played it badly and wound up squandering their power doing nothing. The Republicans made fools of them. However, the Republicans have also shown that they are not interested in negotiating in good faith, and do not have the interests of the country at heart; they're all about power for themselves and their rich cronies, and they can't hide that anymore.


That is exactly what the Democrats under Pres. Obama have done and are still trying to do, bryanc. Sadly, his first two years in office were trying to piece together the problems in the US that were handed to him when he took office. Then, when the Republicans took control of the House of Reps, with the Tea Party's influence on the Republican party, there was gridlock in Congress.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Very tough unless a party has 60 seats in the Senate ............ and the Democrats had 59.


They simply use reconciliation--and pass bills with 51 votes.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They simply use reconciliation--and pass bills with 51 votes.


Sadly, not that easy in the US Senate. You may "try" to pass a bill with 51 votes so long as the minority does not keep the vote from coming to the floor for this vote. Without 60 votes to provide closure to a debate, it can go on and on and on and on.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, not that easy in the US Senate. You may "try" to pass a bill with 51 votes so long as the minority does not keep the vote from coming to the floor for this vote. Without 60 votes to provide closure to a debate, it can go on and on and on and on.


Happily not that easy! I can't imagine how much more damage the Democrats would have done to the country given absolute free reign.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Happily not that easy! I can't imagine how much more damage the Democrats would have done to the country given absolute free reign.


Think back to the progressive legislation that is still benefiting millions upon millions of people that were passed during FDR's New Deal and LBJ first term in 1964-66 (until the Vietnam War derailed the Great Society) if you want to see what "free reign" under a Democratic Congress and Presidency might bring about. You might not like these policies, but there are millions of people who would tell you otherwise.


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## groovetube

Never a mention about the biggest damage in US history under the republicans.

Though there's plenty to criticize, in 4 years they were able to stabilize, and actually show some positivity. I doubt that would have occurred under mcCain. 

Best of bad choices it would seem.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I can't imagine how much more damage the Democrats would have done to the country given absolute free reign.


Yeah, those tax-and-spend types would have ruined the economy... just look at the history of the US economy under Democrats vs. Republicans! Oh... wait... the US economy has done consistently better under Democrats since WWII... um... what were you saying?


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Yeah, those tax-and-spend types would have ruined the economy... just look at the history of the US economy under Democrats vs. Republicans! Oh... wait... the US economy has done consistently better under Democrats since WWII... um... what were you saying?


Perhaps that used to be true... until Obama.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Perhaps that used to be true... until Obama.


After Bush drove the economy off a cliff, nothing but divine intervention could've prevented the crash. Despite being the most religious country in the developed world, God did not intervene, and Obama had to try to mitigate the damage. I don't agree with his mitigation strategies, but it certainly isn't fair to blame the crash on Obama.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> After Bush drove the economy off a cliff, nothing but divine intervention could've prevented the crash. Despite being the most religious country in the developed world, God did not intervene, and Obama had to try to mitigate the damage. I don't agree with his mitigation strategies, but it certainly isn't fair to blame the crash on Obama.


I blame him for carrying on all of the worst policies of the Bush era, and exacerbating them, overseeing the most massive ramp up of debt in the country's history--and then concentrating on his pet project of health care reform instead of dealing with the economy and deficit.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Yeah, those tax-and-spend types would have ruined the economy... just look at the history of the US economy under Democrats vs. Republicans! Oh... wait... the US economy has done consistently better under Democrats since WWII... um... what were you saying?





Macfury said:


> Perhaps that used to be true... until Obama.





bryanc said:


> After Bush drove the economy off a cliff, nothing but divine intervention could've prevented the crash. Despite being the most religious country in the developed world, God did not intervene, and Obama had to try to mitigate the damage. I don't agree with his mitigation strategies, but it certainly isn't fair to blame the crash on Obama.


Your point, bryanc, is somewhat true .................. Bush drove the "economy off of a cliff", but then threw the keys to Obama as he walked away from this wreck.

Macfury, am I reading your post correctly???? You feel that FDR and LBJ are actually better than Pres. Obama????????? I thought that those two presidents were the "dynamic duo of doom" in your opinion. Or, are you just kidding us???? I guess when you say that Carter was a better president than Reagan we will know that you are just joking with us. We shall see.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Your point, bryanc, is somewhat true .................. Bush drove the "economy off of a cliff", but then threw the keys to Obama as he walked away from this wreck.
> 
> Macfury, am I reading your post correctly???? You feel that FDR and LBJ are actually better than Pres. Obama????????? I thought that those two presidents were the "dynamic duo of doom" in your opinion. Or, are you just kidding us???? I guess when you say that Carter was a better president than Reagan we will know that you are just joking with us. We shall see.


In order of preference:

FDR (for war effort only)
LBJ
Carter
Obama

Until Obama, I considered Carter the worst president in modern history. Obama has earned clear title to that honour (honor).

I remember seeing Carter crushed by Reagan. A refreshing event!


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In order of preference:
> 
> FDR (for war effort only)
> LBJ
> Carter
> Obama
> 
> Until Obama, I considered Carter the worst president in modern history. Obama has earned clear title to that honour (honor).
> 
> I remember seeing Carter crushed by Reagan. A refreshing event!


Interesting list. What might the ranking of Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. be in terms of your most liked to least liked? Thus, they are ranked against each other and not any Democrat. You may throw in Coolidge, Harding and TR is you want.

Paix, mon ami.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Until Obama, I considered Carter the worst president in modern history.


You'll be among the very few who don't see Bush II taking that title by a country mile.

While the right has been trying to paint Obama as an extreme radical socialist, his major flaw has been that he's been accommodating to a fault - the compromiser-in-chief. But this does have the effect of making him look like a reasonable man, and illustrates how much the Republicans are simply projecting their own radicalism and partisan obstructionism. The question in my mind is wether Obama's propensity to yield too much to the Republicans will have disaffected Democratic voters to the extent that they don't turn out to vote. This will be a problem if the Faux News watchers, who think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim/Atheist socialist Nazi commie who's gonna take away their guns, succeed in mobilizing the crazy Republican Base.


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## i-rui

Carter was decades ahead of his time. If the US followed his lead on energy conservation and not living beyond it's means it wouldn't be in the mess they find themselves in today.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You'll be among the very few who don't see Bush II taking that title by a country mile.





> The liberal Public Policy Polling organization asked the public “Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of” each president by name ahead of George Washington Birthday — or as it is more commonly referred to as Presidents Day, as if Andrew Johnson is the equal of George Washington.When it comes to our current president and his predecessor, George Walker Bush beats Barack Obama.
> 
> The poll showed 45% now have a favorable opinion of Bush 43, while 46% have an unfavorable opinion.



W outpolls Obama « Don Surber


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## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Carter was decades ahead of his time. If the US followed his lead on energy conservation and not living beyond it's means it wouldn't be in the mess they find themselves in today.


Amen, Brother. I was able to say that I voted for Carter in the State of Georgia ....... and proud of that vote.

Paix, mon ami.


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## screature

i-rui said:


> Carter was *decades ahead of his time*. If the US followed his lead on energy conservation and not living beyond it's means it wouldn't be in the mess they find themselves in today.


I will say this about that... a good politician is *of his time* neither in front nor behind it.


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## groovetube

Hmm. Short sighted, vs someone with long term vision.

Guess my definition of a 'good politician' differs.


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## Macfury

Carter's energy plan was simply to reduce energy use, regardless of how it impacted the living standards of the country. I'm glad he was stopped short.


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## screature

groovetube said:


> Hmm. Short sighted, vs someone with long term vision.
> 
> Guess my definition of a 'good politician' differs.



Not short sighted, to be of ones time, dealing with the issues that one can deal with during their tenure and people are ready and willing to accept... it didn't do Carter any good to have a plan than no one was willing to implement now did it... you can have the best plans in the world but if the electorate isn't willing or ready to receive them then all it does is get you unelected. Good politicians are pragmatists not pie eyed utopians.


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## i-rui

screature said:


> it didn't do Carter any good to have a plan than no one was willing to implement now did it... you can have the best plans in the world but if the electorate isn't willing or ready to receive them then all it does is get you unelected.


and by not following a conservation plan and spending willy nilly the US has spent itself into oblivion.

if your criterion for being a "good politician" is to be re-elected then sure, a good politician is an opportunist that panders to the swing vote.

that however, is certainly not *my* definition of a good politician.


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## groovetube

i-rui said:


> and by not following a conservation plan and spending willy nilly the US has spent itself into oblivion.
> 
> if your criterion for being a "good politician" is to be re-elected then sure, a good politician is an opportunist that panders to the swing vote.
> 
> that however, is certainly not *my* definition of a good politician.


Some people are happy with the status quo. 

Though I wonder sometimes, how this whole 'it's not popular, but he's going to do it because it's the right thing' thing somehow disappears at the right times...


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## screature

i-rui said:


> and by not following a conservation plan and spending willy nilly the US has spent itself into oblivion.
> 
> if your criterion for being a "good politician" is to be re-elected then sure, a good politician is an opportunist that panders to the swing vote.
> 
> that however, is certainly not *my* definition of a good politician.





groovetube said:


> Some people are happy with the status quo.
> 
> Though I wonder sometimes, how this whole 'it's not popular, but he's going to do it because it's the right thing' thing somehow disappears at the right times...


Some people are willing to to see how things *are* when it comes to a system (democracy) built around a notion that policy and laws can shift every 4 or 5 years... with every new administration whether or not it is of your choice.

When it comes to the status quo, what politician or political party hasn't pandered to it in one form or another when they gain power, even those that profess that they will do things differently during an election?

By "good" politician I mean "effective" and in a democratic political system that means getting re-elected and being able to continue to move your policies forward, otherwise you may as well have never been if your policies are only to be overturned when the next administration takes power, such is the nature of democracies and not oligarchies and dictatorships... Some may wish it to be otherwise but given the system we have (democracy) that is the lay of the land.


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## groovetube

Soooo... no dice on setting policies with long term goals beyond your possible term?

That's pretty much dooming everyone to certain failure in my view.


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## Macfury

The oinly part about Carter's energy program I liked was the new emphasis on coal--however, Obama reversed that decision. That one reversal alone put Carter ahead of Obama in my books.


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## Sonal

There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. And it's far worse if you can do #2 without being able to do #1.

The most effective politicians are able to do both.


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## groovetube

Sonal said:


> There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. And it's far worse if you can do #2 without being able to do #1.
> 
> The most effective politicians are able to do both.


yes that's true.

Though it's safe to say there are many different opinions on what passes as governing.


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## screature

groovetube said:


> Soooo... no dice on setting policies with long term goals beyond your possible term?
> 
> *That's pretty much dooming everyone to certain failure in my view.*


Alas I believe it to be true... as I have not seen any significant evidence to the contrary.


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## Sonal

groovetube said:


> yes that's true.
> 
> Though it's safe to say there are many different opinions on what passes as governing.


Also very true.

As a personal preference, I like politicians from whom I can sense having a larger vision for what kind of a place they want their country to be, not ones who seek solely to tear down bits and pieces as being 'wrong' but with no overall view of what they believe is 'right'.

As such--I tend to make my choices based on the overall vision. The details for how this is implement will almost always change. But hopefully the overall view is preserved.


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## screature

Sonal said:


> There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. *And it's far worse if you can do #2* without being able to do #1.
> 
> The most effective politicians are able to do both.


Well not entirely, if you you can be an "effective" (i.e. influence government policy) opposition... it is a noble dream, but not one that I have seen much evidence for in reality.


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## groovetube

certainly not in the current parliament, the government is a bit of a train wreck right now, and the opposition isn't as effective as I'd like. Though to be fair, they are both leaderless really atm.


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## screature

Sonal said:


> Also very true.
> 
> As a personal preference, I like politicians from whom I can sense having a larger vision for what kind of a place they want their country to be, not ones who seek solely to tear down bits and pieces as being 'wrong' but with no overall view of what they believe is 'right'.
> 
> As such--I tend to make my choices based on the overall vision. The details for how this is implement will almost always change. But hopefully the overall view is preserved.


Sorry to say Sonal I think your view of politicians and how they fundamentally operate within a party system is for lack of a better word rather naive... there are a few that would adhere to your preference but they are by far and large in the minority in my experience.

All one has to do for evidence of this is to look at the current leadership race in the NDP.

That being said why should "ideals"/view/vision not vary as circumstances vary and times change? Why should an "overall view" that may have been appropriate (even given a certain philosophical bent) that was appropriate 30, 40 or 50 years ago be appropriate and be fundamentally adhered to today?


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## screature

groovetube said:


> certainly not in the current parliament, the government is a bit of a train wreck right now, and the opposition isn't as effective as I'd like. Though to be fair, they are both leaderless really atm.


The point I was making exactly, as it has been the case as long as I can remember.... just saying that as an opposition member of a given legislature one *can* (theoretically) be effective but it is very hard indeed.


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## Sonal

screature said:


> Sorry to say Sonal I think your view of politicians and how they fundamentally operate within a party system is for lack of a better word rather naive... there are a few that would adhere to your preference but they are by far and large in the minority in my experience.
> 
> All one has to do for evidence of this is to look at the current leadership race in the NDP.
> 
> That being said why should "ideals"/view/vision not vary as circumstances vary and times change? Why should an "overall view" that may have been appropriate (even given a certain philosophical bent) that was appropriate 30, 40 or 50 years ago be appropriate and be fundamentally adhered to today?


The fact that politicians of my preference are in the minority is not at all surprising to me.

I'm not sure I understand the latter half of what you are saying, but perhaps we have a slight miscommunication between us. Certainly, my views will likely change over a 30, 40 or 50 year horizon. But I would hope that a particular politician's overall view or vision of the country/province/state/city/what-have-you would not change dramatically during their term--even though some of the promises they made during their campaign may change or not come to fruition.


----------



## Dr.G.

When I lived in New York City, I helped a reform Democrat (he would be in the NDP if he were in Canada) get elected to Congress in my congressional district. That was in the Fall. When I was home from university in Dec. he was already working on his re-election bid by going around the district to meet people. Now, sadly, the emphasis is upon raising money for the next campaign as soon as you are elected to Congress. All 435 members of the House of Representatives are up for election every two years, with only about 30-35 senators from the US Senate up for election in that election.

I am very upset over the creation of the Super PACs that, at least in the Republican primaries, seem to be funded by a few very wealthy individuals. Again, while I don't support most of Ron Paul's views, I do respect the fact that he does not have a Super PAC funding his campaign.


----------



## screature

Sonal said:


> The fact that politicians of my preference are in the minority is not at all surprising to me.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand the latter half of what you are saying, *but perhaps we have a slight miscommunication between us*. Certainly, my views will likely change over a 30, 40 or 50 year horizon. * But I would hope that a particular politician's overall view or vision of the country/province/state/city/what-have-you would not change dramatically during their term--even though some of the promises they made during their campaign may change or not come to fruition.*


Could certainly be the case... 

But therein lies the rub... either they communicate the party line (in order to appeal to their voter base) or they move to another party (if they are so convicted... in a Canadian context which is out of place for this thread) ... or at least their communications are carefully crafted in such regard (i.e. being part of a party but disagreeing with specific policy and effectively communicating it while remaining within the party context, particularly difficult when the party forms the government BTW).

So... like with the upcoming NDP leadership race where Mulcair seems to want to move the party more to the "centre" for electoral success it seems that the old guard (e.g. Broadbent) are against this and there can be a fundamental shift in policy and "overall view" in a very short period of time "par example" if Mulcair wins the leadership.

Hope that explains what I am talking about... it is a very complex subject indeed and difficult to talk about in an internet forum post in a way that would not require much more space.

Sorry that this post is out of context for American politics... it kind of drifted that way... don't mean to derail... 

So it seems like Romney vs. Obama will be the ticket... any guesses as to the victor and the degree of margin of victory?


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> The fact that politicians of my preference are in the minority is not at all surprising to me.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand the latter half of what you are saying, but perhaps we have a slight miscommunication between us. Certainly, my views will likely change over a 30, 40 or 50 year horizon. But I would hope that a particular politician's overall view or vision of the country/province/state/city/what-have-you would not change dramatically during their term--even though some of the promises they made during their campaign may change or not come to fruition.


not at all surprising to me either, as good leaders are certainly, very few and far between.


----------



## groovetube

anyone see this?
As It Lobbies For Tax Holiday, Apple Admits Hoarding Cash Overseas To Avoid Paying Taxes | ThinkProgress



> Apple is among the companies that make up WinAmerica, a coalition of corporations lobbying Congress for a repatriation holiday. The companies have argued that the holiday would boost economic growth and job creation by allowing them to bring money back either without paying taxes or at a lower rate than the current 35%.


Sound familiar? Corporations crying to the government for leniency on taxes, whispering sweet nothings into the ears of libertarians everywhere with that excited gasp of.... wait for it... job creation!!!!

Oh but...


> There’s little evidence, however, that the holiday would have that effect, even as it has gained favor with Republican lawmakers and presidential candidates. Congress approved a similar holiday in 2004, *only to watch companies use it to pay dividends to shareholders before promptly cutting jobs.* Kristen Forbes, a member of the Council of Economic Advisers when the 2004 holiday was approved, said it “didn’t accomplish the stated goals of bringing jobs and investment to the US,’’ and afterward, corporations stashed even more money overseas in anticipation of another future holiday.
> Further, at a time when the country’s effective corporate tax rate is at a 40-year low (companies that make up WinAmerica are already paying low rates), such a holiday would cost the U.S. $80 billion over the next decade.


Well slap me sillehhh...


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Sound familiar? Corporations crying to the government for leniency on taxes, whispering sweet nothings into the ears of libertarians everywhere with that excited gasp of.... wait for it... job creation!!!!
> 
> Oh but...
> 
> 
> Well slap me sillehhh...


I don't care if they create jobs or not. That isn't the responsibility of the companies. However, taxes are too high because the government spends too much and they should be cut--both corporate and personal.


----------



## Dr.G.

"So it seems like Romney vs. Obama will be the ticket... any guesses as to the victor and the degree of margin of victory?" My prediction, scrature, is Pres. Obama will win with 325 electoral votes. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

I don't many people care what libertarians think I'm afraid.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I don't many people care what libertarians think I'm afraid.


What about drummers?


----------



## groovetube

Probably about the same.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I don't care if they create jobs or not. That isn't the responsibility of the companies.


I'm glad you understand this; I wish more conservative supporters would quit using the mantra of job creation to justify the asinine policies they espouse. The responsibility of corporations is to generate profits for their share-holders. Nothing else.

Therefore, if we as a society want corporations to behave in certain ways (and not others), we have to make it unprofitable to do the things we don't want them to do, and profitable to do the things we want them to do. Governments can play a role here (by legislating against the most egregious behaviours and enforcing large fines for infractions, and possibly by taxing less egregious but still undesirable actions). But the biggest influence is going to be the economic choices customers make: we've got to be willing to buy products made by companies doing "the right things" (even if they're more expensive), and refuse to buy from companies doing "the wrong things" (even if they're offering products or services for less than their competitors). 

This is why the Wal-Martification of our economy is a serious problem. Consumers have been trained to look for the "best deal" without thinking about the impacts those purchases have on our society and our ecosystem. I see this as another problem Governments could help with: a government supported web-site with consumer information about the corporate behaviours of all the corporations operating in Canada would be a very valuable tool for people like me who want to be informed consumers, but don't always have the time, energy or expertise to search for the relevant info and critically evaluate the sources.


----------



## groovetube

And they will en masse, continue to look for the best deal. This whole notion that we suddenly start forcing corporations to act responsibly by our buying choices as a solution to all the ails the corporate world is for morons. It has been done on a very limited rare case, but everytime sometime suggests this as an actual valid solution, it makes me laugh.

And yes it's about time one of them finally owned up to this great sham of corp tax cuts = job creation.

It's merely syphoning money from our pockets into exec bonuses.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> And they will en masse, continue to look for the best deal. This whole notion that we suddenly start forcing corporations to act responsibly by our buying choices as a solution to all the ails the corporate world is for morons. It has been done on a very limited rare case, but everytime sometime suggests this as an actual valid solution, it makes me laugh.


I guess it would make you laugh if you didn't understand it at all. And that appears to be the case.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I guess it would make you laugh if you didn't understand it at all. And that appears to be the case.


understand what?

Explain.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I'm glad you understand this; I wish more conservative supporters would quit using the mantra of job creation to justify the asinine policies they espouse. The responsibility of corporations is to generate profits for their share-holders. Nothing else.


Right, but this doesn't mean that everyone operating a corporation is a maniac either.

The whole idea of job creation will work ONLY when the company needs to hire more people--nobody decides to hire someone because they get a subsidy on their wages, or some other government kickback, or directly because of tax breaks. This is not to say that tax breaks can't create jobs if that freed-up money is used to expand the business, or if the tax breaks encourage businesses to locate in a particular country. Just that there's no direct link.

Dollar democracy is particularly effective here--more effective in many cases than any government regulation. A good example is a recent California regulation micro-managing the size of an egg-laying chicken's nest. The net result was an exodus of egg-farmers from California. Californians now buy more eggs imported from other states. On the other hand, watch the number of brands of eggs now for sale from free-run chickens in Canadian stores. I'm willing to spend a buck on the belief that a free-run hen is happier, and as more people buy these eggs, the price is coming down closer to that of regular eggs. Organic milk likewise.

I would also advise people who believe hat a particular company is robbing them blind to buy stock in it. Hate the banks? Buy bank stock. Not only will you directly benefit from their policies, but you have an opportunity to modify them as well.


----------



## Sonal

Dr.G. said:


> "So it seems like Romney vs. Obama will be the ticket... any guesses as to the victor and the degree of margin of victory?" My prediction, scrature, is Pres. Obama will win with 325 electoral votes. We shall see.


Not sure about the margin (mostly because I don't remember the numbers) but I do think Obama will win, but with a slimmer margin than in 2008.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> Not sure about the margin (mostly because I don't remember the numbers) but I do think Obama will win, but with a slimmer margin than in 2008.


Sonal, in 2008, then Sen. Obama received 365 electoral votes to 173 for McCain. This year I am taking some of those "blue states" (Democratic) and changing them to "red states" (Republican). Still, with only 270 needed to win, Pres. Obama is reelected. We shall see.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sonal, in 2008, then Sen. Obama received 365 electoral votes to 173 for McCain. This year I am taking some of those "blue states" (Democratic) and changing them to "red states" (Republican). Still, with only 270 needed to win, Pres. Obama is reelected. .


It ill take nothing short of a miracle to re-elect Obama, but that miracle may come in the form of Mitt Romney, the Bob Dole of the current crop of Republicans. Given a Paul Ryan, Obama would be decimated.


----------



## Dr.G.

The lines are being drawn already in the US. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI), the aforementioned by Macfury, presented his 2013 budget plan on Capitol Hill March 20th.

This just in from the Washington Post --

This year’s GOP measure would produce deficit estimates that are significantly lower than a comparable measure passed by the House a year ago, claiming deficit cuts totaling $3.3 trillion — spending cuts of $5.3 trillion tempered by $2 trillion in lower taxes

The lower deficit figures build on cuts to annual agency budgets imposed last year and rely on new savings comes from benefit programs outside Social Security and the costly Medicare and Medicaid health care programs for the elderly and the poor.

On taxes, the measure calls for eliminating a host of tax deductions and credits in order to produce a far simpler income tax code with just two rates for individuals: 10 percent and 25 percent. But Ryan doesn’t say the income levels at which the new rates would apply.

The only way to cut the top tax rate to 25 percent is to essentially end the tax deductions for health care coverage, mortgage interest expenses and charitable contributions, even as Republicans would keep the temporary lower rates for capital gains and dividends that mainly benefit very high-income taxpayers.

Almost half of Ryan’s spending cuts come from $2.5 trillion in cuts to federal health care programs — including repeal of Obama’s signature health care law — over the coming decade.

This year, under pressure from conservatives to cut even more, Ryan doubled down on cuts to food stamps, student loans, welfare, and farm subsidies to small non-corporate farmers.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It ill take nothing short of a miracle to re-elect Obama, but that miracle may come in the form of Mitt Romney, the Bob Dole of the current crop of Republicans. Given a Paul Ryan, Obama would be decimated.


Pres. Obama and VP Biden vs Paul Ryan for president and Rand Paul for vice president. Now, that would be an election that would have the people of America singing "Which side are you on?" 

Which Side Are You On - YouTube

I shall pray for you, Macfury. Paix, mon ami. 

Pete Seeger Leads Amazing Grace - YouTube


----------



## Rps

I'm not so sure that Obama will win, as it appeared to me from the moment of his election that his own party was against him..I am not so sure things have changed all that much.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I'm not so sure that Obama will win, as it appeared to me from the moment of his election that his own party was against him..I am not so sure things have changed all that much.


True. Many Democrats are concerned that some of his policies are too progressive. Still the final say shall be with the people of America. Macfury may not have faith in their wisdom, but I do. Thus, we shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Sonal

Rps said:


> I'm not so sure that Obama will win, as it appeared to me from the moment of his election that his own party was against him..I am not so sure things have changed all that much.


True.

On the other hand, the moderate Republicans may still not be able to stomach voting in Romney, and as such they may vote Obama. 

Tea party politics have badly hurt the Republicans. I continue to feel badly for John Huntsman--he had no chance, but THAT would have been an interesting election.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Many Democrats are concerned that some of his policies are too progressive. Still the final say shall be with the people of America. Macfury may not have faith in their wisdom, but I do. Thus, we shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


The people of America are not "wise" simply because they are "the people."

The Israelites demanded a King and they were warned:



> “This will be the procedure of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and place them for himself in his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots. “And he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and some to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will also take your daughters for perfumers and cooks and bakers. And he will take the best of your fields and your vineyards and your olive groves, and give them to his servants. And he will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards, and give to his officers and to his servants. He will also take your male servants and your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys, and use them for his work. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. _Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves_, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The people of America are not "wise" simply because they are "the people."
> 
> The Israelites demanded a King and they were warned:


Interesting. However, the people of America would freely elect a president, either Pres. Obama, for whom I shall vote, or someone else, possibly someone whom you would vote for if given the chance.

You may know the future for the presidential election, but I still say that we need to let the people have their say in a democratic election. If Pres. Obama loses, so be it. The people of America have spoken. If Pres. Obama wins, well .............. then I told you so. We shall see.

Re you biblical reference --

When Samuel was old he made his sons judges over Israel. In early Israel, there was never the pattern of judges being appointed by men, or of the office of judge being passed from father to son. Samuel was not right in appointing his sons judges over Israel.

His sons did not" walk in his ways" as we were taught in Hebrew School. This is why Samuel was wrong to appoint his sons as judges over Israel. These sons took to undertaking dishonest gains, took bribes, and perverted justice.

While it is was wise for the elders of Israel to reject Samuel’s sons as leaders, it was wrong for them to say, “Now make for us a king to judge us like all the nations.” I feel that the reason Israel wanted a king was wrong.

Gideon was once offered the throne over Israel. He refused it, saying “I will not rule over you, nor shall my son rule over you; the Lord shall rule over you.” 

Shalom, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> True.
> 
> On the other hand, the moderate Republicans may still not be able to stomach voting in Romney, and as such they may vote Obama.
> 
> Tea party politics have badly hurt the Republicans. I continue to feel badly for John Huntsman--he had no chance, but THAT would have been an interesting election.


I actually liked some of Huntsman's positions, and I respect Ron Paul's honesty.

It may come down to an Obama/Biden campaign focused on the economy, highlighting the difference between the president's promoting the private sector and the middle class and the GOP's promoting the privileged sector. This will most likely happen if Romney is the Rep. candidate. A victory on either side will depend largely on the economy and grand issues of war and peace. Reality trumps rhetoric.

We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

if the news continues to be good on the US's "unexpected bump" through the election, Obama will clean Romney's clock.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> if the news continues to be good on the US's "unexpected bump" through the election, Obama will clean Romney's clock.


We shall see. Iran or some other unexpected crisis could derail this clock cleaning. It shall be close.


----------



## groovetube

for sure. Plenty can happen in the next 9 months


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> for sure. Plenty can happen in the next 9 months


With Romney just taking the Illinois primary by a wide margin, it looks as if it shall be him as their candidate. It shall be interesting to see who he chooses as his running mate.


----------



## groovetube

the republicans need something to hang their hat on.

Watch for it...


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> the republicans need something to hang their hat on.
> 
> Watch for it...


Have faith in the Republicans, gt. If there is not a real issue, they can always make one up. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Have faith in the Republicans, gt. If there is not a real issue, they can always make one up. We shall see.


You can count on that.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> You can count on that.


I just hope that it is not Iran and a nuke.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. However, the people of America would freely elect a president, either Pres. Obama, for whom I shall vote, or someone else, possibly someone whom you would vote for if given the chance.
> 
> You may know the future for the presidential election, but I still say that we need to let the people have their say in a democratic election. If Pres. Obama loses, so be it. The people of America have spoken. If Pres. Obama wins, well .............. then I told you so. We shall see.
> 
> Re you biblical reference --
> 
> When Samuel was old he made his sons judges over Israel. In early Israel, there was never the pattern of judges being appointed by men, or of the office of judge being passed from father to son. Samuel was not right in appointing his sons judges over Israel.
> 
> His sons did not" walk in his ways" as we were taught in Hebrew School. This is why Samuel was wrong to appoint his sons as judges over Israel. These sons took to undertaking dishonest gains, took bribes, and perverted justice.
> 
> While it is was wise for the elders of Israel to reject Samuel’s sons as leaders, it was wrong for them to say, “Now make for us a king to judge us like all the nations.” I feel that the reason Israel wanted a king was wrong.
> 
> Gideon was once offered the throne over Israel. He refused it, saying “I will not rule over you, nor shall my son rule over you; the Lord shall rule over you.”
> 
> Shalom, mon ami.


Yes, but in their wisdom, the people demanded a KIng!


----------



## PenguinBoy

I figure Obama is in for a second term, despite the fact that his current low approval rating and the general poor condition of the economy would ordinarily work against him.

The US economy is finally starting to show some signs of life, and the Republicans are locked in a long drawn out leadership race. Their most electable leadership candidate thinks it is a good idea to strap a dog to the roof of his car and drive down the highway, and the others go downhill from there.

if the economy had continued to bounce along the bottom and Romney had won the primaries quickly and decisively, and run against Obama's economic record then I suspect the election would be his to lose. Instead we are seeing some "green shoots" in the economy, and the Republicans are all trying to appeal to the Tea Party base rather than the median voter.


----------



## Macfury

PenguinBoy said:


> I figure Obama is in for a second term, despite the fact that his current low approval rating and the general poor condition of the economy would ordinarily work against him.
> 
> The US economy is finally starting to show some signs of life, and the Republicans are locked in a long drawn out leadership race. Their most electable leadership candidate thinks it is a good idea to strap a dog to the roof of his car and drive down the highway, and the others go downhill from there.
> 
> if the economy had continued to bounce along the bottom and Romney had won the primaries quickly and decisively, and run against Obama's economic record then I suspect the election would be his to lose. Instead we are seeing some "green shoots" in the economy, and the Republicans are all trying to appeal to the Tea Party base rather than the median voter.


Hillary and Obama had a long, drawn-out leadership battle, and Obama thought it was a good idea to attend the church of Jeremiah Wright.

"Green shoots" in the economy? Only when you discount the collapse in the number of people still in the U.S. job market, do job figures look good.

I don't think the reasons you've supplied are a slam dunk for the Prez.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, but in their wisdom, the people demanded a KIng!


Yes, but Pres. Obama is not a king. The US broke away from the king of England back on July 4th, 1776. Once again, read your American history.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, but Pres. Obama is not a king. The US broke away from the king of England back on July 4th, 1776. Once again, read your American history.
> 
> "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


I am referring only to the collective wisdom of the people--unless you are suggesting that the American people have greater wisdom than the people of Israel.


----------



## groovetube

but it was you who dragged the people of Israel into this.

The usual macfury circle I see.



groovetube said:


> understand what?
> 
> Explain.


No response. That's what I thought.


----------



## i-rui

*well done video mash-up*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE


----------



## PenguinBoy

Macfury said:


> I don't think the reasons you've supplied are a slam dunk for the Prez.


Not a slam dunk by any means - but I still think Obama is in for a second term.

The biggest reason is the dearth of electable candidates in the GOP. They need to appeal to the "median voter" not the Tea Party.

I expect Romney will eventually take the nomination, but everything he said to appeal to the Tea Party base can and will be used against him in November...


----------



## Dr.G.

PenguinBoy said:


> Not a slam dunk by any means - but I still think Obama is in for a second term.
> 
> The biggest reason is the dearth of electable candidates in the GOP. They need to appeal to the "median voter" not the Tea Party.
> 
> I expect Romney will eventually take the nomination, but everything he said to appeal to the Tea Party base can and will be used against him in November...


Valid points, PB. Of course, as Romney's chief advisor said today, once he gets the nomination, he will be like an etch a sketch -- just shake it and it will change the picture. Thus, he shall try to appeal to the moderates and independents. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

PenguinBoy said:


> The biggest reason is the dearth of electable candidates in the GOP. They need to appeal to the "median voter" not the Tea Party.


I predict that if Romney seeks "the median voter" he will lose big time.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I predict that if Romney seeks "the median voter" he will lose big time.


While I am hoping for a Romney loss and an Obama victory, unless Romney gets this "median voter" (i.e., moderate Republicans and independents) he will not win. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

I've always found it funny how libertarian/tea partiers always assume the rest of the country is behind them.

I think our government right now is finding out just how far to the center they have to go to stay in power.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Valid points, PB. Of course, as Romney's chief advisor said today, once he gets the nomination, he will be like an etch a sketch -- just shake it and it will change the picture. Thus, he shall try to appeal to the moderates and independents. We shall see.


That was a huge mistake on the Romney team's part. Romney's victory speech was on the verge of encouraging conservative voters to end their skepticism of his credentials.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I think our government right now is finding out just how far to the center they have to go to stay in power.


Does that make sense at all? How are the Conservatives attempting to cater to "the centre" and do you honestly think that concerns over re-election are motivating them right now?


----------



## groovetube

I think it's common knowledge macfury that Harper has had to move towards the center even conservatives here have acknowledged this.

And certainly already firing off election style attack ads on Rae shows they are concerned.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I think it's common knowledge macfury that Harper has had to move towards the center even conservatives here have acknowledged this.
> 
> And certainly already firing off election style attack ads on Rae shows they are concerned.
> 
> But hey, whatever floats your boat.


Uh, "not whatever floats my boat." If that's all you got, then I wonder why you ventured forth with the comment at all.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> I think it's common knowledge macfury that Harper has had to move towards the center even conservatives here have acknowledged this.
> 
> And certainly already firing off election style attack ads on Rae shows they are concerned.
> 
> But hey, whatever floats your boat.


Uh, isn't this the *American* political thread?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Uh, "not whatever floats my boat." If that's all you got, then I wonder why you ventured forth with the comment at all.


You conveniently skipped over the preceding part if my post.

However I can see why you would.

And sinc yes. But macfury asked about the conservatives moving toward the center and I pointed the incredibly obvious happening right here in Canada


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That was a huge mistake on the Romney team's part. Romney's victory speech was on the verge of encouraging conservative voters to end their skepticism of his credentials.


True. Now, should he get the nomination, he has to decide whether to alienate the far right by going to the center to capture moderates and independents, or stay on the far right to keep his core and lose those in the middle. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Uh, isn't this the *American* political thread?


True. We need to keep our countries and politics apart ................ at least here in ehMacLand. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Now, should he get the nomination, he has to decide whether to alienate the far right by going to the center to capture moderates and independents, or stay on the far right to keep his core and lose those in the middle. We shall see.


Going after the "moderates" is a losing strategy. If Romney (if it is Romney) tacks right he will beat Obama handily. If he veers to the centre he will lose by a small margin.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Going after the "moderates" is a losing strategy. If Romney (if it is Romney) tacks right he will beat Obama handily. If he veers to the centre he will lose by a small margin.


Depends on whether that's social conservatism or fiscal conservatism.

If he panders to the religious right, he's going to lose the moderates.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Depends on whether that's social conservatism or fiscal conservatism.
> 
> If he panders to the religious right, he's going to lose the moderates.


Fiscal conservatism for the win. All he needs to do is keep mum about the social conservatism and he's a shoe-in. 

My hope is that Paul Ryan gets drafted to flatten Romney at the convention.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Fiscal conservatism for the win. All he needs to do is keep mum about the social conservatism and he's a shoe-in.
> 
> My hope is that Paul Ryan gets drafted to flatten Romney at the convention.


It's going to be tricky to keep mum about social conservatism... he's going to be grilled on it everywhere he goes.

Ultimately, it may all be a distraction, but it's a loud distraction with at least the strong appearance of having an effect.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> It's going to be tricky to keep mum about social conservatism... he's going to be grilled on it everywhere he goes.
> 
> Ultimately, it may all be a distraction, but it's a loud distraction with at least the strong appearance of having an effect.


This election will be all about keeping the base motivated. McCain could have won the last election, but he disappointed conservatives, both social and fiscal, and there was no major voter drive on election day. Obama's victory was very slim.

Obama's own base has shrunk considerably and even motivating them after this four-year period of disappointment is going to be difficult at best.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Going after the "moderates" is a losing strategy. If Romney (if it is Romney) tacks right he will beat Obama handily. If he veers to the centre he will lose by a small margin.


Even Ronald Reagan would tell you that this would not be the case. If Romney is to win, he will need to get the moderate Republicans, independents and Regan Democrats. We shall see comes Nov.

With Jeb Bush's endorsement, I foresee a Romney-Bush ticket. It would make sense since the Republicans would need Florida and Texas as part of their winning strategy re electoral colleges votes. Again, we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> It's going to be tricky to keep mum about social conservatism... he's going to be grilled on it everywhere he goes.
> 
> Ultimately, it may all be a distraction, but it's a loud distraction with at least the strong appearance of having an effect.





Macfury said:


> This election will be all about keeping the base motivated. McCain could have won the last election, but he disappointed conservatives, both social and fiscal, and there was no major voter drive on election day. Obama's victory was very slim.
> 
> Obama's own base has shrunk considerably and even motivating them after this four-year period of disappointment is going to be difficult at best.


If Romney swings to the right to solidify the Tea Party and social conservatives, it will motivate them but turn off the needed centerist views of voters. The same would hold true for Pres. Obama if he suddenly shifted to the left of where he is currently.

In the US, there is about 1/4 of the voters that are core Republicans or core Democrats. There is about 1/4 of the electorate that would be considered moderates or independents and about 1/4 who don't care and shall not vote. The key to victory is the center. Give that up, and your party loses. Every US election since 1964 has seen this happen.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> This election will be all about keeping the base motivated. McCain could have won the last election, but he disappointed conservatives, both social and fiscal, and there was no major voter drive on election day. Obama's victory was very slim.
> 
> Obama's own base has shrunk considerably and even motivating them after this four-year period of disappointment is going to be difficult at best.


Sarah Palin lost that election for McCain. I honestly did think she was an inspired choice. And then she spoke.

It was a slim victory, but not far off from Clinton's wins which were under better conditions--no war on terror and a good economy. And George W had even slimmer victories. There's still some room to lose votes but still win.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Even Ronald Reagan would tell you that this would not be the case. If Romney is to win, he will need to get the moderate Republicans, independents and Regan Democrats. We shall see comes Nov.


Ronald Reagan would not tell people they needed to pander to the centre, but that a strong conservative message will earn the support of moderates and independents. Many Reagan Democrats have long since left the Democrat party.

Any self-described moderate Republican (Bush I-after demonstrating he was one, Dole, McCain) has lost their election bids. It's a looing strategy.



Dr.G. said:


> With Jeb Bush's endorsement, I foresee a Romney-Bush ticket. It would make sense since the Republicans would need Florida and Texas as part of their winning strategy re electoral colleges votes. Again, we shall see.


I'll bet money that this won't be a Romney-Bush ticket. Bush II was a disappointment to many conservative Republicans and will signal to them that their support is not wanted. Romney will need to pick up a strong conservative--Ryan or Rubio--to indicate that the ticket is not going soft.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> Sarah Palin lost that election for McCain. I honestly did think she was an inspired choice. And then she spoke.
> 
> It was a slim victory, but not far off from Clinton's wins which were under better conditions--no war on terror and a good economy. And George W had even slimmer victories. There's still some room to lose votes but still win.


Valid points, Sonal. This is why I am predicting about 325 electoral votes for another Pres. Obama win. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Sarah Palin lost that election for McCain. I honestly did think she was an inspired choice. And then she spoke.
> 
> It was a slim victory, but not far off from Clinton's wins which were under better conditions--no war on terror and a good economy. And George W had even slimmer victories. There's still some room to lose votes but still win.


It was McCain's effort to win Conservative votes that inspired him to draft Palin, and a poor choice it was. However, if he himself had not been a self-proclaimed moderate he could have won handily. Voter analysis shows that large numbers of Republicans stayed home because they saw little difference between McCain and Obama.

Having seen the one-man wrecking crew in action, many Republicans now see the difference between Obama and even a moderate Republican.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> It was McCain's effort to win Conservative votes that inspired him to draft Palin, and a poor choice it was. However, if he himself had not been a self-proclaimed moderate he could have won handily. Voter analysis shows that large numbers of Republicans stayed home because they saw little difference between McCain and Obama.
> 
> Having seen the one-man wrecking crew in action, many Republicans now see the difference between Obama and even a moderate Republican.


And many Republicans voted Obama because they didn't want the religious right in control, (and they were concerned that the old man might drop dead and leave that woman in charge.)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ronald Reagan would not tell people they needed to pander to the centre, but that a strong conservative message will earn the support of moderates and independents. Many Reagan Democrats have long since left the Democrat party.
> 
> Any self-described moderate Republican (Bush I-after demonstrating he was one, Dole, McCain) has lost their election bids. It's a looing strategy.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll bet money that this won't be a Romney-Bush ticket. Bush II was a disappointment to many conservative Republicans and will signal to them that their support is not wanted. Romney will need to pick up a strong conservative--Ryan or Rubio--to indicate that the ticket is not going soft.


If you read Reagan's papers re the 1980 election, you will see that this was not the case. He did not want to have a repeat of the 1964 fiasco for the Republican party, so he moderated his views, just like he did in California. When he said during the debates "Are you better off now than when you were 4 years ago?" at the hight of the 1980 recession, I knew Carter was not going to win, espeially when you had the Iran hostage situation compounding this election.

I would place Rubio, Ryan and NJ governor Christie, Indiana govenor Daniels, former Minnesota govenor Pawlenty, or Ohio Sen. Portman as potential VP picks as well.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> And many Republicans voted Obama because they didn't want the religious right in control, (and they were concerned that the old man might drop dead and leave that woman in charge.)


So very true, Sonal. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> And many Republicans voted Obama because they didn't want the religious right in control, (and they were concerned that the old man might drop dead and leave that woman in charge.)


Few Republicans voted for Obama--I'd like to see the proof on that.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Few Republicans voted for Obama--I'd like to see the proof on that.


Check out the CNN exit polls from the 2008 election, Macfury. I think that even they were amazed at how many Republicans wanted a change from Bush II (as you call him).


----------



## bryanc

Sonal said:


> And many Republicans voted Obama because they didn't want the religious right in control, (and they were concerned that the old man might drop dead and leave that woman in charge.)


Absolutely. I know several staunch American conservatives (who voted for Reagan, and Bush I) who switched to Obama after Bush II allied the party with the religious right (and the ultra wealthy) while abandoning fiscal conservatism. At least a few of these people are deeply unhappy with Obama, but wouldn't consider voting for a ticket with a Bush on it. If the Republican ticket is Romney-Bush, they probably just won't vote, but some will go to Obama.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> If you read Reagan's papers re the 1980 election, you will see that this was not the case. He did not want to have a repeat of the 1964 fiasco for the Republican party, so he moderated his views, just like he did in California. When he said during the debates "Are you better off now than when you were 4 years ago?" at the hight of the 1980 recession, I knew Carter was not going to win, espeially when you had the Iran hostage situation compounding this election.


From the man who said "...government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem"? I don't recall Regan running a moderate campaign. Each major plank was strongly conservative in counterpoint to Carter.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Few Republicans voted for Obama--I'd like to see the proof on that.


I personally know at least three who say they did. These are all men who voted for Bush II the first time, but were so appalled at what he did to the country and the economy that they switched to Kerry and then, in desperation, Obama. One of them explicitly mentioned what Sonal was talking about; he didn't mind McCain so much, but was terrified of the prospect of the 'Wicked Witch of Wassilla' in the white house.


----------



## Sonal

bryanc said:


> I personally know at least three who say they did. These are all men who voted for Bush II the first time, but were so appalled at what he did to the country and the economy that they switched to Kerry and then, in desperation, Obama. One of them explicitly mentioned what Sonal was talking about; he didn't mind McCain so much, but was terrified of the prospect of the 'Wicked Witch of Wassilla' in the white house.


I saw a lot of the same on the more American-oriented board I post on. Lots of people who'd never voted anything but Republican in their life, voted for Obama for pretty much the same reasons. They were okay with McCain, but hated Palin.

Many of them are supporting Obama still, because they don't want the religious right to take over the white house.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I personally know at least three who say they did. These are all men who voted for Bush II the first time, but were so appalled at what he did to the country and the economy that they switched to Kerry and then, in desperation, Obama. One of them explicitly mentioned what Sonal was talking about; he didn't mind McCain so much, but was terrified of the prospect of the 'Wicked Witch of Wassilla' in the white house.


Personal anecdotes won't cut it. In any given election, a small minority switches allegiance. Usually not enough to kill an election victory.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Many of them are supporting Obama still, because they don't want the religious right to take over the white house.


Many of those who sat back and let Obama take the helm are back supporting Republicans because they don't want to see the religious left in office any longer.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> From the man who said "...government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem"? I don't recall Regan running a moderate campaign. Each major plank was strongly conservative in counterpoint to Carter.


That is from Reagan's 1981 Inaugural Address after he was elected. During the actual election he stayed clear of far-right views. Even William F. Buckley, Jr, in his book "The Reagan I Knew" comment upon the fact that while he thought Reagan would "pull the nuclear trigger" realized that he would not have gone that far, unlike what Goldwater threatened to do. This belief that we should not get into a nuclear war lead Reagan to negotiate and sign the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty with the Soviet Union, a treaty which Buckley, Jr. opposed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Personal anecdotes won't cut it. In any given election, a small minority switches allegiance. Usually not enough to kill an election victory.


True, this is why I suggested you go see the 2008 exit polls. If bryanc is using anecdotes to defend his views, which you reject, what stats are you using to defend your views?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Many of those who sat back and let Obama take the helm are back supporting Republicans because they don't want to see the religious left in office any longer.


The "religious left"? This is a new one to me. Is this your creation, Macfury, or is it a word in the public domain?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Personal anecdotes won't cut it.


I agree, anecdotal information isn't worth much. But you asked for proof that Republicans voted for Obama. I don't know how many, but at least a few did.

More to the point, those Republicans who either didn't vote or who voted for Democrats over Bush will probably continue to do so if Romney is stupid enough to select Jeb as a running mate. Many will still remember that Jeb is suspected of vote-rigging in Florida on behalf of his brother back in 2000, and I doubt he has much appeal to any but the most extreme on the wing-nut-right.

Personally, having Jeb Bush on the Republican ticket would suit me fine, as this would be a gift for the Obama campaign. But I can't imagine the Republican machine is capable of making such a gaffe _twice in a row_.


----------



## BigDL

> The "religious left"? This is a new one to me. Is this your creation, Macfury, or is it a word in the public domain?


The religious left consist of TRRC The Radical Religious Communists. These commies will accept any denomination for their cause, their favourite being the $100 bill.

Even McCarthy couldn't expose them back in the day but look who knew of their existence. Will the miracles of the un-bridled machinations of a rugged individualist ever cease.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> That is from Reagan's 1981 Inaugural Address after he was elected. During the actual election he stayed clear of far-right views. Even William F. Buckley, Jr, in his book "The Reagan I Knew" comment upon the fact that while he thought Reagan would "pull the nuclear trigger" realized that he would not have gone that far, unlike what Goldwater threatened to do. This belief that we should not get into a nuclear war lead Reagan to negotiate and sign the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty with the Soviet Union, a treaty which Buckley, Jr. opposed.


Far-right views and conservative views are not the same thing.

However, Reagan's five planks during his election campaign were:
1) he promised to cut taxes, 
2) implement supply-side economics, 
3) strengthen the military, 
4) decrease government regulation and 
5) promote states' rights prior to being elected.

Reagan signed the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty with the Soviet Union because it resulted in the destruction of far more Soviet missiles than American--about twice as many—a clear advantage to the U.S. military.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, this is why I suggested you go see the 2008 exit polls. If bryanc is using anecdotes to defend his views, which you reject, what stats are you using to defend your views?


I didn't make the first claim. However, it's easy to find the figures. More Democrats voted for McCain than did Republicans vote for Obama.

Exit polls showed 10% of Democrats supporting McCain to 9% of Republicans supporting Obama.

Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The "religious left"? This is a new one to me. Is this your creation, Macfury, or is it a word in the public domain?



It's known as "Liberation Theology."


----------



## Dr.G.

Looks like Donald Trump is hoping to get a nod to be vice president ............ but in 2016 ........... and with a Democrat!!!!!!!!!!!   

"(CNN) - Donald Trump one again stirred the presidential pot, this time with his eye on Hillary Clinton.

The real estate mogul predicted Secretary of State Clinton will run for president in 2016.

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

"I think you know, assuming she's healthy, which I think she will be I think she probably runs after the next four years," Trump said Wednesday on Fox News.

Clinton failed to capture the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008 against then-Sen. Barack Obama and has said publicly she will not run for office after her tenure at the State Department.

Although Trump, who weighed his own presidential bid earlier this year, would not say if she would receive his support in 2016, he did offer up praise for the former New York senator.

"Hillary Clinton, I think, is a terrific woman," Trump said. "I just like her. I like her and I like her husband." "

TRENDING: Trump floats Clinton in 2016 – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## groovetube

well the only real difference between the republicans and the democrats is the democrats tend to lack the sheer lunacy of the religious right.


----------



## bryanc

I can't imagine Clinton being dumb enough to associate with Trump under any circumstances. There are other billionaires that aren't so toxic.


----------



## CubaMark

Two sides of the same coin. Matters not who comes to hold the office, the empire continues on its path of destruction.


----------



## MacDoc

> Exit polls showed 10% of Democrats supporting McCain to 9% of Republicans supporting Obama.


I'm sure there are lots of democrat bigots and a precious few colour-blind republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Who would win this hypothetical race for the presidency in 2016?

Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.) or Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.)


----------



## Macfury

Rubio--though Andrew Cuomo has done a surprisingly decent job of cutting New York state government down to size.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Rubio--though Andrew Cuomo has done a surprisingly decent job of cutting New York state government down to size.


I have been online with a friend in Georgia who makes you look like a far left member of the NDP. He voted for Ron Paul in GA during the primary, but felt that Paul is a moderate. We have been running scenarios for 2016 back and forth.

So far, we agree upon a Repbublican combo of Rubio and Rand Paul, and Cuomo and ???. Neither of us can agree upon a #2 person for the Democrats. I can't see Biden or H. Clinton for the #1 spot, so he and I have been thinking outside of the proverbial box. 

What do you think of Rand Paul or Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan as the VP choice for a Rubio presidency?


----------



## bryanc

*Abraca-Tax-Cuts!*

Mark Firore's take on Paul Ryan's budget proposal. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Mark Firore's take on Paul Ryan's budget proposal. :clap:


Cute .......... Sadly, all too true, however. 

I know that this will set off a fire-storm of howls from some here in ehMacLand, but I was very impressed with Pres. Obama's speech yesterday re his reaction to this Ryan budget plan. I see the lines being drawn clearly between what he envisions for America and what the Republicans envisions for America. At this point, whomever is the Republican candidate for the presidency, it will be an interesting campaign up to November. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Cute .......... Sadly, all too true, however.
> 
> I know that this will set off a fire-storm of howls from some here in ehMacLand, but I was very impressed with Pres. Obama's speech yesterday re his reaction to this Ryan budget plan.


I thought Obama's speech was one of the most pitiful of his career--frustrated, wheedling and petulant. On the other hand, I approved of his signing a bill that makes insider trading among house and senate members illegal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I thought Obama's speech was one of the most pitiful of his career--frustrated, wheedling and petulant. On the other hand, I approved of his signing a bill that makes insider trading among house and senate members illegal.


Bazinga, Macfury. I had a feeling that you would not like his speech. As I said, the lines are being drawn. Still, we do agree upon the congressional insider trading bill. This was LONG overdue. Certain members of both the Democratic and Republican Party members of Congress have gotten wealthy via this illegal route. You and I would be in jail if we did what some of them did re insider info. We also agree that Rep. Ron Paul has been supporting this move for years, and has not profited from this sort of info. While I don't like many of his views, I respect his honesty and efforts to stand up for the Constitution. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Cute .......... Sadly, all too true, however.
> 
> I know that this will set off a fire-storm of howls from some here in ehMacLand, but I was very impressed with Pres. Obama's speech yesterday re his reaction to this Ryan budget plan. I see the lines being drawn clearly between what he envisions for America and what the Republicans envisions for America. At this point, whomever is the Republican candidate for the presidency, it will be an interesting campaign up to November. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


For the most part when BO talks it is wise to take a glance in the opposite direction as his actions seldom match his words.


----------



## Dr.G.

I just heard the news. I did not expect Rick Santorum to suddenly drop out, but he announced the suspension of his campaign. This all but gives the nomination to Romney.


----------



## Macfury

Romney is definitely a weak candidate. However, I expect the anti-Obama vote to solidify behind him.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney is definitely a weak candidate. However, I expect the anti-Obama vote to solidify behind him.


I am hoping that Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich keep this campaign going all the way to Tampa. I wonder if there will be more anti-Romney voters coming forth than anti-Pres. Obama comes Nov.? We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

It will be interesting to see how Romney moves away from his self-declared being "severely conservative" to try to moderate to the center to try and get those independent voters. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just heard Santorum's decision to suspend his campaign. Interesting that he did not even mention Romney by name, nor did he endorse him.

Here's hoping that Ron Paul wins Texas. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It will be interesting to see how Romney moves away from his self-declared being "severely conservative" to try to moderate to the center to try and get those independent voters. We shall see.


If he does that, he will lose.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Dr.G. said:


> Just heard Santorum's decision to suspend his campaign. Interesting that he did not even mention Romney by name, nor did he endorse him.
> 
> Here's hoping that Ron Paul wins Texas. We shall see.


I hope Paul runs as a third party candidate for President. I don't come anywhere close to agreeing with his libertarianism in total, but I think he has brought up many important issues around personal liberty and American interventionism in other countries that I would like to see addressed nationally by both the GOP and Dems.


----------



## Dr.G.

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I hope Paul runs as a third party candidate for President. I don't come anywhere close to agreeing with his libertarianism in total, but I think he has brought up many important issues around personal liberty and American interventionism in other countries that I would like to see addressed nationally by both the GOP and Dems.


That would be a fine idea, GA. I like Paul's honesty and integrity, although not many of his views. Then, there would be an even more distinct choice between Pres. Obama, Romney and Paul. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If he does that, he will lose.


I am hoping that he stays to the right so that there is a clear choice for Americans.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am hoping that he stays to the right so that there is a clear choice for Americans.


So am I.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Imagine if Mitt chooses Knute as his running mate. 

I like the sound of "Mitt and Knute". Classy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So am I.


This should be interesting. If he is forced to go to his right so as not to lose the social conservatives and the Tea Party supporters, this could turn out to be another 1964 election. Sadly, while I think that Pres. Obama would win, he is not an LBJ when it comes to getting through a Great Society platform. Of course, Pres. Obama will most likely not have the full support of Congress. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Imagine if Mitt chooses Knute as his running mate.
> 
> I like the sound of "Mitt and Knute". Classy.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## groovetube

Romney faces identity crisis as Republican champion - The Globe and Mail



> If he stays the course – which saw him harden his stand on everything from same-sex marriage to abortion – he risks sabotaging his bid to win mainstream support. But even if his best shot at the White House involves a shift back to the middle, chances are he will be hamstrung by the Republican Party.


One has to ask, at what point does the far right base figure out that "mainstream support" means not ramming their beliefs down everyone's throat, who doesn't want it...

Even Stephen Harper has had to figure this out in order to survive. But it seems it's a bit of a cross to bear for the right. One, that simply isn't sustainable.


----------



## Macfury

Seeking mainstream support was what George Bush did in his re-election bid, what Bob Dole did, what John McCain did. It's a losing proposition. If Romney goes squishy centre he will join the club.


----------



## groovetube

Perhaps it was because the mainstream didn't want a republican president.

Or in Bush's case, they didn't want the democratic candidate for president.

Seems simple.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Perhaps it was because the mainstream didn't want a republican president.
> 
> Or in Bush's case, they didn't want the democratic candidate for president.
> 
> Seems simple.


If you don't examine it too carefully, that's what it may look like.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> If you don't examine it too carefully, that's what it may look like.


Well then, enlighten us further.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Romney faces identity crisis as Republican champion - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> One has to ask, at what point does the far right base figure out that "mainstream support" means not ramming their beliefs down everyone's throat, who doesn't want it...
> 
> Even Stephen Harper has had to figure this out in order to survive. But it seems it's a bit of a cross to bear for the right. One, that simply isn't sustainable.


Interesting points, gt. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Well then, enlighten us further.


I've told you before, gt, I'm not here to educate just one person. I'm perfectly happy if you believe what you already wrote.


----------



## groovetube

that's what I thought. All bark and no bite, as per usual.


----------



## bryanc

I have no idea what he's on about either. When Bush Jr. got elected in 2000, it was because he succeeded in not frightening the moderates (well, that and rigging the ballot with the help of brother Jeb in Florida). And he *did* manage to get re-elected in 2004 (albeit through major voting 'irregularity' in Ohio).

So I don't see how MF can argue that pandering to the "mushy middle" isn't a successful strategy.


----------



## groovetube

well the assertion has been made probably at least about 20 times in the threads lately, I was curious to see what the reasoning was.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – Florida Rep. Allen West's controversial comments have once again landed him in the headlines – this time with the sort of accusation not seen in Congress since the 1950s. 

At a town hall meeting with constituents in Jensen Beach, West was asked how many members of Congress are "card-carrying Marxists."

According to CNN affiliate WPEC, West responded, "I believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the Democratic Party that are members of the Communist Party." 

TRENDING: Florida Rep labels congressional Democrats as Communists – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Sen. Joe McCarthy was ahead of his time .............. even though he said that there were communists in the State Department and not in Congress itself. Still, as he once said, "Look under every bed and you will find a commie hiding there ............... somewhere ............. someday." Or was this suggestion to look under the bed and see dust bunnies????

Whatever, this goes to show how the World Order is changing ............... America is turning to communism, and Pres. Putin is wanting to become Russia's new Czar.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Maybe Romney is the New Moses, touched by God to lead the people of America out of bondage in Obamaland??? We shall see.

Burning Bush Scene-How can we hear God today?... - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Throughout U.S. history, Ivy League colleges have had an outsized proportion of alumni who became president. Harvard alone has eight. If, as is widely expected, it's Barack Obama versus Mitt Romney in November, the Ivy League is the guaranteed winner again, because it will be Harvard against Harvard (Romney got his MBA at Harvard).

In fact, it has been 28 years since a non-Harvard-or-Yale graduate has been elected president. George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama all went to one (or both) of those universities. In four of those elections, the winning Ivy Leaguer ran against another Ivy Leaguer (Michael Dukakis, incumbent President George H.W. Bush, Al Gore, John Kerry).

And many of presidents, to their credit, have come from small, non-glitzy colleges. Lyndon Johnson hailed from Southwest Texas State Teachers College. Richard Nixon went to Whittier College. Ronald Reagan went to Eureka College. Nine presidents either never went to college at all, or never received a degree. They were no slouches; they include Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman.


----------



## Dr.G.

Tell Mitt Romney: Kittens Are Cute. 1% Fat Cats? Not So Much. - YouTube

An interesting commercial that is going to have some staying power, I believe. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Place your bets, ladies and gents, on Mitt Romney's choice for VP. Right now, the name on the lips of most GOP strategists is Ohio senator and former George W. Bush administration official Rob Portman. My guess is that Romney needs an anti-Palin (e.g., someone who will not overshadow him and someone who will not blow up in his face). Portman might just be this person. What do you think???


----------



## Macfury

Portman would be a bad choice. While Americans overall have softened on GBII, Romney needs to clearly move away from Bush's dismal statist record of expanding government.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Portman would be a bad choice. While Americans overall have softened on GBII, Romney needs to clearly move away from Bush's dismal statist record of expanding government.


A valid point, Macfury. So, whom shall we place your bet upon?


----------



## Macfury

Marco Rubio. I think he can help to bring in many of the voters who were devoted to Santorum, and Tea Party voters. Even if the Tea Party contingent is lukewarm on Romney, they will see in Rubio a willingness on Romey's part to consider them and also a chance to develop him into a future presidential candidate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Marco Rubio. I think he can help to bring in many of the voters who were devoted to Santorum, and Tea Party voters. Even if the Tea Party contingent is lukewarm on Romney, they will see in Rubio a willingness on Romey's part to consider them and also a chance to develop him into a future presidential candidate.


OK, that is where I am going to place your two-cents bet ........... even though Rubio has said that "I'm not going to be the vice president," in an interview with CNN. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

The political roster is filled with the names of those who said they would not run--and did.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The political roster is filled with the names of those who said they would not run--and did.


All too true, Macfury. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

With his need to compete for the Republican right now ebbing, will Romney migrate back to the center, hoping that a good shake of the Etch A Sketch will create a clean slate to start courting moderates and independents????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> With his need to compete for the Republican right now ebbing, will Romney migrate back to the center, hoping that a good shake of the Etch A Sketch will create a clean slate to start courting moderates and independents????


No. It's my belief that the independents and moderates are largely fiscal conservatives. I believe he's sorry the campaign toady said such a thing and I predict a fiscally conservative message, with some trappings of social conservatism tossed in as bones to the hard core social conservatives. Obama is certainly in no position to win those votes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No. It's my belief that the independents and moderates are largely fiscal conservatives. I believe he's sorry the campaign toady said such a thing and I predict a fiscally conservative message, with some trappings of social conservatism tossed in as bones to the hard core social conservatives. Obama is certainly in no position to win those votes.


True. The social conservatives will go for Romney unless he goes to the left of Pres. Obama (very unlikely) ............ or there is a third party candidate. I am still waiting to see if they allow Ron Paul to speak at the convention in a meaningful way. If they try to "dis" him, I can see him taking his message to the people as the Libertarian Party candidate. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting item on CNN.com


Washington (CNN) - Who should Mitt Romney choose as his running mate? 

According to a new national poll, there's no consensus among Republicans. But a CNN/ORC International survey released Wednesday does indicate there's an ideological split that could put pressure on Romney, the all but certain GOP presidential nominee, as he tries to make his decision. 

The poll asked Republicans and independents who lean towards the GOP to choose from eight names who could be among the two dozen or so potential running mates that the Romney campaign may be considering as the vice presidential nominee.

According to the survey, Condoleezza Rice is on top of the list. Twenty-six percent questioned said they would like to see Rice, who served as national security adviser and later as secretary of state under President George W. Bush, as the Republican vice presidential nominee. In second place in the survey, at 21%, was Rick Santorum, who was Romney's chief rival for the nomination until early last week, when the former senator from Pennsylvania suspended his campaign for the White House. 

Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie were each at 14%, with House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin at 8%, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal at 5%, Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell at 1% and Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio at less than one half of one percent."


----------



## Dr.G.

Re the Republican VP pick ..................... yet another Bush???

(CNN) - Jeb Bush, whose endorsement of Mitt Romney helped secure the candidate as the all-but-certain GOP nominee, said an interview Romney should avoid the urge to wage a negative campaign. The popular former Florida governor also offered up his pick for Romney's running mate, and said he'd consider a spot on the GOP ticket if asked.


----------



## Macfury

Please, no....


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Please, no....


Hey, don't shoot the messanger. I still voting for Obama regardless of whom the Republicans select for their presidential candidate.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, don't shoot the messanger. I still voting for Obama regardless of whom the Republicans select for their presidential candidate.


I wasn't blaming you, Dr. G. 

Jeb Bush is a dud.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I wasn't blaming you, Dr. G.
> 
> Jeb Bush is a dud.


I agree. If we keep agreeing, I might just get you to believe in Pres. Obama's vision for America ................. or not. At least we agree that Ron Paul is an honorable politician. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Romney to stump with Rubio next week - The Hill's Ballot Box



> Mitt Romney will stump with Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) in Pennsylvania on Monday, an appearance that is sure to fuel speculation that Rubio is on Romney's short list for vice president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney to stump with Rubio next week - The Hill's Ballot Box


Interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney to stump with Rubio next week - The Hill's Ballot Box


This just in from CNN --

(CNN) – Republican Sen. Marco Rubio, who consistently makes the short list of potential GOP vice-presidential candidates, on Sunday offered a ringing endorsement of Jeb Bush for the No.2 spot.

Bush, the former Florida governor, recently said he hoped Rubio would accept a potential offer from presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney to serve on the ticket, and Rubio returned the compliment.

"Well that's very nice of Jeb. I hope he'll say yes if future President Romney asks him," the senator from Florida said of his political mentor in an interview set to air on CNN's "State of the Union." "I think he'd be a fantastic vice president."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Well that's very nice of Jeb. I hope he'll say yes if future President Romney asks him," the senator from Florida said of his political mentor in an interview set to air on CNN's "State of the Union." "I think he'd be a fantastic vice president."


He's just being polite....


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's just being polite....


We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

The truth will out:



> Yet another new survey shows that Republican supporters know more about politics and political history than Democrats.
> 
> On eight of 13 questions about politics, Republicans outscored Democrats by an average of 18 percentage points, according to a new Pew survey “Partisan Differences in Knowledge.”
> 
> The Pew survey adds to a wave of surveys and studies showing that GOP-sympathizers are better informed, more intellectually consistent, more open-minded, more empathetic and more receptive to criticism than their fellow Americans who support the Democratic Party.


Read more: Republicans | Democrats | Open-minded | The Daily Caller


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The truth will out:
> 
> 
> Read more: Republicans | Democrats | Open-minded | The Daily Caller


Interesting. And from this same source, this poll.

"Marco Rubio may not be the dream running mate for Mitt Romney that he has been made out to be. The results of a Public Policy Polling poll released Thursday indicate that with Rubio as a running mate, Romney would actually lose traction against President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

If he picks Chris Christie, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee or Jeb Bush, however, he becomes a stronger candidate.

In a head-to-head match up against Obama, Romney currently trails the president by a 49-46 margin. But the poll found that the right running mate could boost his chances."


Read more: Chris Christie | Vice President Pick | Mitt Romney | The Daily Caller


----------



## CubaMark

There are Lies, Damned Lies, and then there are Statistics. 

I found this bit from the link Macfury posted quite funny:



> The widest partisan gap in the survey came in at 30 points when only 46 percent of Democrats — but 76 percent of Republicans —- correctly described the GOP as “the party generally more supportive of reducing the size of federal government.”


Um... excuse me... "correctly described the GOP"? Didn't the size of the federal government grow enormously under Bush II?

Unless the question had to do with empty rhetoric...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> There are Lies, Damned Lies, and then there are Statistics.
> 
> I found this bit from the link Macfury posted quite funny:
> 
> 
> 
> Um... excuse me... "correctly described the GOP"? Didn't the size of the federal government grow enormously under Bush II?
> 
> Unless the question had to do with empty rhetoric...


All of those polls are simple nonsense. But since so many supporting the other view are posted, I thought I'd have my fun too.

They ALL grow the size of federal government. However, Obama takes the cake.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. And from this same source, this poll.
> 
> "Marco Rubio may not be the dream running mate for Mitt Romney that he has been made out to be. The results of a Public Policy Polling poll released Thursday indicate that with Rubio as a running mate, Romney would actually lose traction against President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.
> 
> If he picks Chris Christie, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee or Jeb Bush, however, he becomes a stronger candidate.
> 
> In a head-to-head match up against Obama, Romney currently trails the president by a 49-46 margin. But the poll found that the right running mate could boost his chances."
> 
> 
> Read more: Chris Christie | Vice President Pick | Mitt Romney | The Daily Caller


It's interesting. I would have thought Santorum would be a liability.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's interesting. I would have thought Santorum would be a liability.


Not sure if he would be a liability, but I find it difficult to see how the two of them could suddenly make up and be partners. 

Still, while I think that Newt Gingrich is a non-factor these days, Ron Paul still needs be be heard from re his group of supporters.

(CNN) - Rep. Ron Paul will not step aside even if Mitt Romney soon clinches the 1,144 delegates needed to secure the Republican presidential nomination, the candidate said Monday. 

"If tomorrow, Romney had the absolute number, I would probably continue in a modified way to maximize the number of delegates to go to the convention," Paul said on CNBC's "Squawk Box," adding that his supporters insist he stay in the running.


----------



## Dr.G.

I thought that Pres. Obama was this year's "socialist of the year"???


(CNN) – Former GOP White House contender Jon Huntsman on Monday explained the comparison he made between the Republican Party and Communist Party of China the night before as "waxing philosophical" on the state of politics. 

On Sunday night Huntsman equated being disinvited by the Republican Party from a Florida fundraiser in March after he floated the idea of a third party to "what they do in China on party matters if you talk off script," according to political blog BuzzFeed.

TRENDING: Huntsman compares GOP to Communist Party of China – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> There are Lies, Damned Lies, and then there are Statistics.
> 
> I found this bit from the link Macfury posted quite funny:
> 
> 
> 
> Um... excuse me... "correctly described the GOP"? Didn't the size of the federal government grow enormously under Bush II?
> 
> Unless the question had to do with empty rhetoric...


A valid point re stats, CM. This is why certain studies need to be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## Sonal

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that Pres. Obama was this year's "socialist of the year"???
> 
> 
> (CNN) – Former GOP White House contender Jon Huntsman on Monday explained the comparison he made between the Republican Party and Communist Party of China the night before as "waxing philosophical" on the state of politics.
> 
> On Sunday night Huntsman equated being disinvited by the Republican Party from a Florida fundraiser in March after he floated the idea of a third party to "what they do in China on party matters if you talk off script," according to political blog BuzzFeed.
> 
> TRENDING: Huntsman compares GOP to Communist Party of China – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


I rather like Jon Huntsman. He seems like a very intelligent person.

It's a shame that he did not do better in the Republican leadership race, although he was a longshot to begin with. (And unlike Obama in the Democratic race, he didn't have the power of Oprah to help boost his chances.)


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I rather like Jon Huntsman. He seems like a very intelligent person.
> 
> It's a shame that he did not do better in the Republican leadership race, although he was a longshot to begin with. (And unlike Obama in the Democratic race, he didn't have the power of Oprah to help boost his chances.)


I too liked Huntsman, and felt that he would have made a good candidate, Sonal. He, like Ron Paul, stated their views and stood by them, even in the onslaught of conservative Tea Party criticism. While I disagree with more of Ron Paul's views than those held by Huntsman, it is Ron Paul who has been consistent in his views, and expressing them in an honest manner, regardless of what many Republicans feel should be representative of their party platform.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

Obama is definitely Socialist of the Year--his reputation is safe, Dr. G.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama is definitely Socialist of the Year--his reputation is safe, Dr. G.


Good to know, Macfury. I only wish he could have been more progressive, in the style of FDR and LBJ. Such is Life.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Good to know, Macfury. I only wish he could have been more progressive, in the style of FDR and LBJ. Such is Life.


He, is progressive, Dr. G.--taking America one step closer to the cliff over which they may eventually fall into chaos. Onward, onward, ever onward!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He, is progressive, Dr. G.--taking America one step closer to the cliff over which they may eventually fall into chaos. Onward, onward, ever onward!!


:lmao::lmao::lmao: You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'... - YouTube
Let's agree to disagree, Macfury. I am not in an arguing mood tonight. Paix, mon ami.

Of course, if Pres. Obama wins again, I shall be overjoyed ...................

Singing In The Rain - Singing In The Rain (Gene Kelly) [HD Widescreen] - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Paix, Docteur Gee.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Paix, Docteur Gee.


Merci, mon ami. Do I detect a French accent???? What are your thoughts about the French elections????

La Marseillaise Casablanca - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. Do I detect a French accent???? What are your thoughts about the French elections????
> 
> La Marseillaise Casablanca - YouTube


It all depends on whether Marine Le Pen and her followers want to replace Sarkozy or to elect him as a bastion against Hollande--and I don't know how they're thinking about it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It all depends on whether Marine Le Pen and her followers want to replace Sarkozy or to elect him as a bastion against Hollande--and I don't know how they're thinking about it.


We shall see, mon ami. Now, back to the US ......................


----------



## Dr.G.

More grist for the rumor mill???

(CNN) – One-time Mitt Romney rival Rudy Giuliani endorsed the all-but-certain Republican presidential nominee for president on Monday. And the former New York City mayor downplayed any chance he would be considered a running mate on the GOP ticket.

Giuliani made his endorsement in an appearance on Fox News, saying that Romney's "got the resume and background for the job."

The former mayor and 2008 GOP presidential candidate said he met with Romney last week.

"I had a very good breakfast with him. We had a very long talk," Giuliani said. "Of course we've talked a number of times. This was a really good long talk."

As for being considered a running mate to the former Massachusetts governor, Giuliani said "I'm not on the list for running mate. I'm sure of that."

But Giuliani then went on to say: "But I would help him in any way that I could, anything I can do."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, you may be right in this selection. We shall see.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from the Washington Post --

"Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is expected to suspend his presidential campaign within the next week, according to a Republican operative familiar with the decision.

The candidate had already been signaling that the end was near, telling supporters in North Carolina that he would reassess his candidacy while continuing his tour of the state.

“Over the next few days we're going to look realistically at where we're at,” Gingrich said in a speech in Concord Tuesday night. He said he would assess the race “as somebody who's a unifier and somebody who's realistic.” "


----------



## Macfury

Ron Paul and Mitt Romney to the finish line...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ron Paul and Mitt Romney to the finish line...


In this race, I'm pulling for Ron Paul. He is far more honorable a person than MR. As an American citizen I am allowed to send him a contribution ( you can't ). Just to put my money where my mouth is, I sent Pres. Obama a contribution, just like in 2008, and I also sent Ron Paul $10 to help his campaign in New York State. Consider that my gesture to good Dr.G./Macfury relations ................... sort of like the US/Russia Nuclear Arms Agreements of years gone by. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, an interesting bit of info re Rubio's maternal grandfather. The story appears in a forthcoming and unauthorized biography of the senator by Manuel Roig-Franzia of the Washington Post. 

"Rubio was born to Cuban exiles in Miami in 1971, and so he's automatically a U.S. citizen. But, according to excerpts from the book, which is due out in June, his grandfather, Pedro Victor Garcia, entered the United States without a visa in 1962 and spent the next few years in legal limbo while pleading for leniency from U.S. immigration officials. Finally, Garcia was ordered to leave the United States."


Why Marco Rubio can't save the GOP - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ron Paul and Mitt Romney to the finish line...


Watch Ron Paul take the California and Texas primaries. Stranger things have happened. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, an interesting bit of info re Rubio's maternal grandfather. The story appears in a forthcoming and unauthorized biography of the senator by Manuel Roig-Franzia of the Washington Post.
> 
> "Rubio was born to Cuban exiles in Miami in 1971, and so he's automatically a U.S. citizen. But, according to excerpts from the book, which is due out in June, his grandfather, Pedro Victor Garcia, entered the United States without a visa in 1962 and spent the next few years in legal limbo while pleading for leniency from U.S. immigration officials. Finally, Garcia was ordered to leave the United States."
> 
> 
> Why Marco Rubio can't save the GOP - CNN.com


I don't see this as particularly relevant--at least in my assessment of what Rubio brings to the ticket. I see Rubio as a solid fiscal conservative and enough of a social conservative to placate TEA Party voters. I hadn't though of his appeal as primarily Hispanic.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't see this as particularly relevant--at least in my assessment of what Rubio brings to the ticket. I see Rubio as a solid fiscal conservative and enough of a social conservative to placate TEA Party voters. I hadn't though of his appeal as primarily Hispanic.


I would tend to agree, Macfury. Still, it might prove difficult if they take a hard line on illegal immigrants. I would not want to see this as an issue. I am just passing on the item. If he was a VP pick, the lines would be drawn even clearer between Pres. Obama and VP Biden, and Romney and Rubio. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, an interesting article in praise of the loyalty of Ron Paul's supports. I felt the same way about Gene McCarthy back in 1968.

For Paul's true believers, a study in American optimism - CNN.com


----------



## i-rui

for any Game of Thrones / US politics fans, i thought this was quite amusing :


----------



## Macfury

Precious-s-s-s-s-s-s....


----------



## i-rui

*the whitehouse correspondence dinner 2012*

Obama opens....





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Kimmel closes...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Obama opens....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimmel closes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Let's hope that Pres. Obama is able to do this "gig" for the next four years. We shall see.


----------



## i-rui

Dr.G. said:


> Let's hope that Pres. Obama is able to do this "gig" for the next four years.


agreed. 

i'm not sure what would be more painful to watch. Watching Romney run the US further into the ground, or watching Romney trying to be funny at the correspondents dinner.

**shudder**


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> agreed.
> 
> i'm not sure what would be more painful to watch. Watching Romney run the US further into the ground, or watching Romney trying to be funny at the correspondents dinner.
> 
> **shudder**


Well, i-rui, I would rather see Romney trying to be funny than him trying to run the country with the Tea Party and social conservatives calling the shots for him. I would rather see Pres. Obama re-elected and have him get the US back on track. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

So much for a Ron Paul third-party bid.

(CNN) – Former GOP presidential candidate Gary Johnson won and accepted the presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party on Saturday, which his campaign said earns him a spot on November ballots in all 50 states. 

Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico and business owner, won the nomination with more than 70% of the vote at the party convention in Las Vegas. He entered the Libertarian primary race after dropping his 2012 Republican bid in late December.


----------



## Macfury

Obama's gig will be ending soon, thank goodness. This presidency has looked like nothing short of a nightmare to me. In the spring, all of Obama's policies will be reversed, the waters will close over his brief time in history, and his place shall know him no more.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Obama's gig will be ending soon, thank goodness. This presidency has looked like nothing short of a nightmare to me. In the spring, all of Obama's policies will be reversed, the waters will close over his brief time in history, and his place shall know him no more.


Not sure what your problem with BO is. The man has masterfully stayed the course charted by the Republirats. Even allowing the country to descend into bankruptcy as he maintained both military spending and the high end tax cuts. I mean that combination amounts to well over an additional $10 Trillion$ in debt, a Republirat's dream.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Not sure what your problem with BO is. The man has masterfully stayed the course charted by the Republirats. Even allowing the country to descend into bankruptcy as he maintained both military spending and the high end tax cuts. I mean that combination amounts to well over an additional $10 Trillion$ in debt, a Republirat's dream.


Obama incredibly has managed to pull off the worst excesses of both parties simultaneously.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama's gig will be ending soon, thank goodness. This presidency has looked like nothing short of a nightmare to me. In the spring, all of Obama's policies will be reversed, the waters will close over his brief time in history, and his place shall know him no more.


Hopefully, your prediction shall be proven incorrect comes November. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## i-rui

If i recall correctly in the Tea Party thread, Macfury was singing the praise of Rick Perry & Herman Cain.... so i don't think his predictions are guaranteed locks.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> If i recall correctly in the Tea Party thread, Macfury was singing the praise of Rick Perry & Herman Cain.... so i don't think his predictions are guaranteed locks.


Let us hope so, i-rui. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> If i recall correctly in the Tea Party thread, Macfury was singing the praise of Rick Perry & Herman Cain.... so i don't think his predictions are guaranteed locks.


I will sing the praises of any one of the Republicans who takes him out!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will sing the praises of any one of the Republicans who takes him out!


And I shall sing the praises of Pres. Obama upon his re-election. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## MacDoc

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Macfury
> I will sing the praises of any one of the Republicans *who takes him out*!


hmmm freudian slip??? likely not.....


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> hmmm freudian slip??? likely not.....


MacDoc, what are you implying?


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> hmmm freudian slip??? likely not.....


MacDoc, while I dislike Macfury's constant bashing of Pres. Obama, regardless of the thread, I don't think that he meant this in any way other than to say he would "sing the praises" of any Republican candidate who defeated Pres. Obama in Nov. at the polls.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just read this on CBC.com. Very interesting. A bit late, but interesting none-the-less.

"Ron Paul supporters took control of the Maine Republican Convention and elected a majority slate supporting the Texas congressman to the national convention, party officials said Sunday.

The libertarian candidate's backers also came through in Nevada on the weekend, winning him 22 delegates at the state's Republican convention, compared with three for favourite Mitt Romney.

The results, which are unlikely to slow Romney's march to the nomination in Tampa, Fla., in August, give Paul fresh strength as he continues his campaign."


----------



## Dr.G.

Some might not agree, but I found this video clip interesting. Hope it helps Pres. Obama. We shall see.

Go - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

I doubt it will work, except to mobilize people who already believe in Obama. I don't believe Obama has addressed any of the things that this ad claims he has. I will admit that the Admiral who masterminded the Bin Laden assassination did so while President Obama was in office.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I doubt it will work, except to mobilize people who already believe in Obama. I don't believe Obama has addressed any of the things that this ad claims he has. I will admit that the Admiral who masterminded the Bin Laden assassination did so while President Obama was in office.


Well, I am hoping that the message that there was a crisis before Pres. Obama came to office is heard by independents. I still like Frum's analogy that Pres. Bush drove the White House car into a wall, and then as he got out of the burning car, threw the keys to Pres. Obama and said "It's all yours now".


----------



## Macfury

To further the analogy, Obama then got into the car and stepped on the accelerator.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> To further the analogy, Obama then got into the car and stepped on the accelerator.


True ......... and drove America out of a possible return to The Great Depression. Not sure what John McCain would have done. 

Well, now it's on to the general election in November.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ......... and drove America out of a possible return to The Great Depression.


Sez you. Like Roosevelt, Obama enacted policies that extended the economic downturn.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sez you. Like Roosevelt, Obama enacted policies that extended the economic downturn.


I don't feel like arguing with you today, Macfury. Thus, let us agree to disagree with our thoughts about FDR and Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## ehMax

MacDoc said:


> hmmm freudian slip??? likely not.....




Stop. 

Tone has been really good around here lately. Please, this is not needed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dr.G. said:


> MacDoc, while I dislike Macfury's constant bashing of Pres. Obama, regardless of the thread, I don't think that he meant this in any way other than to say he would "sing the praises" of any Republican candidate who defeated Pres. Obama in Nov. at the polls.





ehMax said:


> Stop.
> 
> Tone has been really good around here lately. Please, this is not needed.


True. Discussions about American politics are far more refined than the rough and tumble world of discussing Canadian politics. 

Paix, mon ami. We shall behave ourselves.


----------



## Macfury

Romney vs. Obama polls are all over the place, although conventional wisdom suggests that Obama should be doing better against Romney at this point as a sitting president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney vs. Obama polls are all over the place, although conventional wisdom suggests that Obama should be doing better against Romney at this point as a sitting president.


True. This is why I think that the election shall go down to the wire ............ with Pres. Obama being reelected. Hopefully, the dog-owners of America will help make this a possibility. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Sonal

Obama endorses same-sex marriage - The Washington Post

This will be interesting....


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> Obama endorses same-sex marriage - The Washington Post
> 
> This will be interesting....


True. The proverbial "battle lines" are going to be drawn even deeper now that Rick Santorum has backed Mitt Romney.

Personally, I think that Pres. Obama is making the right decision in this endorsement. We shall see the effect of this move comes November.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Sonal

I agree he made the right move, and it's certainly the stance I'm in favour of.

Politically, though, it will be very interesting. You're right about the battle lines being drawn.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I agree he made the right move, and it's certainly the stance I'm in favour of.
> 
> Politically, though, it will be very interesting. You're right about the battle lines being drawn.


Still, those who oppose this position would not, in all honesty, be voting for Pres. Obama. I don't see this as a move on his part just to get the GLBT votes, but rather, to demonstrate that he is the president of ALL the people in the US, and that US laws, rights and responsibilities, should be extended to all US citizens. 

I actually don't see Mitt Romney making a big deal on this move, especially in the debates, in that it will not gain him any support amongst the independent voters. We shall see.


----------



## Sonal

I think this works more as an appeal to the moderate Republicans, who are not happy with Obama but are also against the socially conservative Republican right a la the likes of Palin, Santorum, Bachmann, Perry, etc.

It may also galvanize those who like Obama into ensuring that they actually get out and vote.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I think this works more as an appeal to the moderate Republicans, who are not happy with Obama but are also against the socially conservative Republican right a la the likes of Palin, Santorum, Bachmann, Perry, etc.
> 
> It may also galvanize those who like Obama into ensuring that they actually get out and vote.


Very good speculation, Sonal. 

I was just listening to the chair of the Republican National Committee comment on this issue. He said that the Republican nominee for president and the Rep. Party would be taking a stand against this policy, and that they would be in support of a Constitutional amendment banning all gay and lesbian marriages; that they would again support the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of states not to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states; that they would deny marriage benefits to any couple other than a man/woman marriage; and they would change the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy to deny any gay or lesbian person from serving his/her country in any branch of the military service. 

Interesting, but by taking this stance, Pres. Obama is again undertaking the notion of "tikkun olam", which is a Hebrew phrase that means "repairing the world" to help the poor, the hungry, and any person in need of protection.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

I hoped Obama would do something like this. It will help to ensure his defeat in the fall.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I hoped Obama would do something like this. It will help to ensure his defeat in the fall.


We shall see. Taking difficult positions is the mark of a good president. Think of this as his doing what Harry Truman did when he desegregated the US military.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see. Taking difficult positions is the mark of a good president. Think of this as his doing what Harry Truman did when he desegregated the US military.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I don't believe the federal government should be involved in this issue at all, and it represents an abuse of federal power over state's rights. It is the mark of an over-reaching president to even comment on this issue. I hold both Bush II and Obama accountable for this, for mis-using their bully pulpit to speak on either side of the issue.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't believe the federal government should be involved in this issue at all, and it represents an abuse of federal power over state's rights. It is the mark of an over-reaching president to even comment on this issue. I hold both Bush II and Obama accountable for this, for mis-using their bully pulpit to speak on either side of the issue.


Interesting. Still, this sounds just like Orval Faubus, Gov. of Arkansas in 1957, Ross Barnett, Gov. of Mississippi, in 1962 and George Wallace, Gov. of Alabama, in 1963. 

In his inaugural speech, Wallace used the line for which he is best known: “In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

There are times when a president needs to "over-reach" to protect individuals and groups of people.


----------



## Macfury

I don't agree, Dr. G. Marriage itself should be no concern of the federal government, whereas equality under the law springs directly from the U.S. Constitution. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 merely formalized what was already in the Constitution, emboldened by the Supreme Court in Brown vs. Board of Education. 

To have the president weighing in on picayune matters like the definition of marriage demeans the office.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't agree, Dr. G. Marriage itself should be no concern of the federal government, whereas equality under the law springs directly from the U.S. Constitution. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 merely formalized what was already in the Constitution, emboldened by the Supreme Court in Brown vs. Board of Education.
> 
> To have the president weighing in on picayune matters like the definition of marriage demeans the office.


Personally, while I support this position by Pres. Obama, I too wish that the federal government did not have to get involved in this matter. Still, when certain rights are being denied to a person, or a couple, or a group of people, there is a responsibility of the federal government to protect these people.

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 merely formalized what was already in the Constitution, emboldened by the Supreme Court in Brown vs. Board of Education." True, but is went on to be specific beyond education, and lead to some of the greatest social legislation since the New Deal. 

I wonder how FDR or LBJ would handle this situation if they were president today. I think that both would be more effective than Pres. Obama in getting this idea enacted into law. Still, I give Pres. Obama credit for doing the right thing, albeit a difficult thing. It may, as you say, cost him the election. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.

We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done. ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

I would rather be right than President. ~Henry Clay

I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man. ~George Washington

The time is always right to do what is right. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare. ~Mark Twain


----------



## Dr.G.

Just got this from Pres. Obama's campaign committee.

Stand with the President — Barack Obama


----------



## Macfury

We shall agree to disagree. The federal government need not be involved at all.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> We shall agree to disagree. The federal government need not be involved at all.


Good idea. This way, there is no need to get into a protracted "back and forth" debate. We have made our points well, and have agreed to disagree .......... and have done so in a civil manner. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Sonal

Top GOP Pollster to GOP: Reverse On Gay Issues - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> Top GOP Pollster to GOP: Reverse On Gay Issues - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast


An interesting item, Sonal. I think that Romney has backed himself into a corner on this issue, and if he trys to take a more moderate stand, supporters like Rick Santorum will try to force him back into a more hard-line stance. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.

Santorum to Romney: ‘Step up’ and use ‘potent weapon’ of same sex marriage – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Macfury

The president need not have a stand on gay marriage. It is not a federal matter. Obama has backed himself into a corner, while Romney need only say it should be left to the states. Obama has shored up his shrinking base with his comments, but the win can go to Romney by shutting his trap.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> The president need not have a stand on gay marriage. It is not a federal matter. Obama has backed himself into a corner, while Romney need only say it should be left to the states. Obama has shored up his shrinking base with his comments, but the win can go to Romney by shutting his trap.


I suspect the ship "It's not a Federal matter; leave it to individual states" has sailed.

In any case, pleading "states rights" did not ultimately work for the issue of segregated schools. I suspect it will not work here.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> I suspect the ship "It's not a Federal matter; leave it to individual states" has sailed.


I don't think your suspicions have any foundation here. But if you think this is a federal matter, what has Obama promised to do about gay marriage?


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I suspect the ship "It's not a Federal matter; leave it to individual states" has sailed.
> 
> In any case, pleading "states rights" did not ultimately work for the issue of segregated schools. I suspect it will not work here.


Very true, Sonal. This is especially true when there are currently 6 U.S. states that allow same-sex marriage, along with the District of Columbia. However, due to the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal government does not recognize the same-sex marriages in these states.

Still, as Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus on Sunday said the Republican Party stands by dignity and respect for gay Americans, but that those sentiments do not change his opposition to same-sex marriage. 

"I don't think it's a matter of civil rights. I think it's just a matter of whether or not we're going to adhere to something that's been historical and religious and legal in this country for many, many years," Priebus said."

Interesting, but the same thing was said about slavery, since slavery was both seen as an "historical" states' right, and defended upon "religious" grounds.

Priebus: Same-sex marriage isn’t a civil rights issue – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Ron Paul no longer campaigning in primaries - The Washington Post

"Texas Rep. Ron Paul (R) announced today that he is scaling back his presidential campaign operation.

He said in a statement that he will continue to fight former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney for delegates at state conventions around the country, but he will no longer spend any money on upcoming primary contests."

In a way I am sad about this announcement. I hope that he is able to speak at the convention. He has earned this as being the one person who did not quit and then quickly throw their support to Romney. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Very true, Sonal. This is especially true when there are currently 6 U.S. states that allow same-sex marriage, along with the District of Columbia. However, due to the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal government does not recognize the same-sex marriages in these states.
> 
> Still, as Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus on Sunday said the Republican Party stands by dignity and respect for gay Americans, but that those sentiments do not change his opposition to same-sex marriage.
> 
> "I don't think it's a matter of civil rights. I think it's just a matter of whether or not we're going to adhere to something that's been historical and religious and legal in this country for many, many years," Priebus said."
> 
> Interesting, but the same thing was said about slavery, since slavery was both seen as an "historical" states' right, and defended upon "religious" grounds.
> 
> Priebus: Same-sex marriage isn’t a civil rights issue – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Not all thing remain the same after substitution. I can make a cake with salt instead of sugar--it's simply no longer a cake. Likewise, substituting a man for a woman or a woman for a man does not make such a union a _marriage_. Let it be classified as something else that allows them to enjoy whatever government benefits they want to apply for.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Not all thing remain the same after substitution. I can make a cake with salt instead of sugar--it's simply no longer a cake. Likewise, substituting a man for a woman or a woman for a man does not make such a union a _marriage_. Let it be classified as something else that allows them to enjoy whatever government benefits they want to apply for.


Separate but equal?


----------



## i-rui

lol


----------



## MacDoc

So removing marriage entirely from the legal system and putting in two persons in a civil union should be very straight forward - pardon the pun.

I'd be all for that....problem is the marriage bigots want their legal cake and eat it too pardon the unpardonable pun


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Separate but equal?


It is not the same thing, so no equality or inequality is implied. Marriage isn't some sort of generic term that you simply apply to whatever you see fit.



MacDoc said:


> So removing marriage entirely from the legal system and putting in two persons in a civil union should be very straight forward - pardon the pun.
> 
> I'd be all for that....problem is the marriage bigots want their legal cake and eat it too pardon the unpardonable pun


Yes. The government need not define marriage. It just needs to define the legal ramifications of all civil unions. 

If a gay couple wants to go to a church and that church says that they're "married," so be it. If they want to go to city hall to register their civil union, so be it. Same goes for heterosexual couples. If the definition of marriage changes, it shouldn't do so from the top down, but organically.


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting article by David Frum in CNN.com. Very surprised by the contentions they made, in that it has always been the elephant in the room. Sadly, I would have to concur with this view. While I am a Democrat at heart, I feel that without a working two-party system, there is merely gridlock in Congress.

(CNN) -- Last month, two political scientists published one of those rare op-eds that gets the political community talking.

The thesis of the piece was contained in the title: "Let's just say it: The Republicans are the problem."

In case that was not clear enough, the authors elaborated: "We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional.

"In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.

"The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.

"When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country's challenges."

Fear fueling Republican extremism - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting article by David Frum in CNN.com. Very surprised by the contentions they made, in that it has always been the elephant in the room. Sadly, I would have to concur with this view. While I am a Democrat at heart, I feel that without a working two-party system, there is merely gridlock in Congress.
> 
> (CNN) -- Last month, two political scientists published one of those rare op-eds that gets the political community talking.
> 
> The thesis of the piece was contained in the title: "Let's just say it: The Republicans are the problem."
> 
> In case that was not clear enough, the authors elaborated: "We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional.
> 
> "In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.
> 
> "The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.
> 
> "When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country's challenges."
> 
> Fear fueling Republican extremism - CNN.com


David Frum has long been a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. This sort of partisan rhetoric doesn't shed any light on the situation. It will thrill Democrats who believe only that "mainstream" is whatever they happen to believe. If Republicans are outliers, why di they trounce the Democrats in mod-terms? It's because the Democrats were outliers.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> David Frum has long been a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. This sort of partisan rhetoric doesn't shed any light on the situation. It will thrill Democrats who believe only that "mainstream" is whatever they happen to believe. If Republicans are outliers, why di they trounce the Democrats in mod-terms? It's because the Democrats were outliers.


Well, I think that David Frum, and the Democratic Party, would be surprised about this classification. So, once again, let us agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I think that David Frum, and the Democratic Party, would be surprised about this classification. So, once again, let us agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


David Frum has been on the outs with conservatives for years, Dr. G. He's a conservative in everything but the stands he takes on important conservative issues.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> David Frum has been on the outs with conservatives for years, Dr. G. He's a conservative in everything but the stands he takes on important conservative issues.


He may be on the "outs" with some conservatives, but he is hardly a spokesperson for the Democratic Party. Pres. Obama is on the outs with some liberals on various issues, but that does not make him a Republican.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

There's a name for such people among Republicans--RINOs, which stands for Republican In Name Only. David Frum is one of those, as was the deposed Senator Dick Lugar.

Obama is on the outs with many Democrats, but his positions have never been conservative.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There's a name for such people among Republicans--RINOs, which stands for Republican In Name Only. David Frum is one of those, as was the deposed Senator Dick Lugar.
> 
> Obama is on the outs with many Democrats, but his positions have never been conservative.


Interesting. Well, seems like the Republican Party is becoming a bit too exclusive if your contention is correct.

Still, I like David Frum's views even if I don't agree with them all the time. He writes well and expresses his views just as well.


----------



## bryanc

The Republicans have been cultivating extremism as a political tactic since the 1970's and they've become a party of Bill O'Reilys, Rick Santorums, Michele Bachmanns, and Sara Palins. They embrace ignorance, superstition, fear and violence, and disparage thoughtful consideration, science, learning and tolerance. While they still mouth platitudes about "small government" and "lower taxes" these have become meaningless slogans, as their policies have been consistently about enriching the rich, expanding military interventions abroad, and expanding the police-state at home.

The Republicans really are what is wrong with America. The fact that about half of Americans fall for them is primarily indicative of the fact that the average American does not have the education or the information necessary to see through their lies.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. Well, seems like the Republican Party is becoming a bit too exclusive if your contention is correct.


A "big tent" will eventually collapse if it exceeds its structural capabilities.



Dr.G. said:


> Still, I like David Frum's views even if I don't agree with them all the time. He writes well and expresses his views just as well.


I once respected him, but now no longer like his views. I find them disingenuous and intellectually dishonest, because they're presented within a conservative framework.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> The Republicans have been cultivating extremism as a political tactic since the 1970's and they've become a party of Bill O'Reilys, Rick Santorums, Michele Bachmanns, and Sara Palins. They embrace ignorance, superstition, fear and violence, and disparage thoughtful consideration, science, learning and tolerance. While they still mouth platitudes about "small government" and "lower taxes" these have become meaningless slogans, as their policies have been consistently about enriching the rich, expanding military interventions abroad, and expanding the police-state at home.
> 
> The Republicans really are what is wrong with America. The fact that about half of Americans fall for them is primarily indicative of the fact that the average American does not have the education or the information necessary to see through their lies.


Interesting points, bryanc. While I would agree with your first paragraph, especially about the cultivation of extremism as a "political tactic", I am not sure I will agree with your last comment about the "average American" and his/her education or "information to see through their lies". I have friends throughout the US who I would consider to be far smarter than me, all of who are voting Republicans. One is a strong support of Ron Paul, one of Rick Perry, two for Newt Gingrich and one who goes from supporting John Kennedy as a boy, working for Robert Kennedy when he ran for Senator in NY State, to openly supporting and working for Ronald Reagan. Of course, one of my best friend's views went from openly supporting Barry Goldwater prior to meeting me to helping me run as a delegate from New York State to the 1968 Democratic convention supporting Gene McCarthy. 

So, I would not want to make such a blanket statement that you seem to have made in your last paragraph.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A "big tent" will eventually collapse if it exceeds its structural capabilities.
> 
> 
> 
> I once respected him, but now no longer like his views. I find them disingenuous and intellectually dishonest, because they're presented within a conservative framework.


Guess they need the "big tent" concept, Macfury.

Strange, but I initially did not like DF's views, but now have come to respect him more due to his intelligent manner of expressing his views. Guess, once again, we shall agree to disagree ................. but in a civilized manner. Interesting how this thread has not had the sort of jabs commonly found in the Canadian politics thread. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G: I think we all tend to like the guy from across the aisle from our beliefs who surprisingly makes statements we agree with. It's like the occasional time James Carville says something I can support. As humans, we like to find agreement and like-mindedness among our fellow travelers. Even bryanc and I can agree on the value of watching the Three Stooges from time to time.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G: I think we all tend to like the guy from across the aisle from our beliefs who surprisingly makes statements we agree with. It's like the occasional time James Carville says something I can support. As humans, we like to find agreement and like-mindedness among our fellow travelers. Even bryanc and I can agree on the value of watching the Three Stooges from time to time.


All valid points, Macfury. As I said, we are far more civil in this thread. Invite me the next time you and bryanc watch The Three Stooges .......... I am a fan since I was a little boy. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Read this in the NY Times:

"$800 Million Target for Romney Campaign and Republican Committee

By NICHOLAS CONFESSORE


9:28 p.m. | Updated A new joint fund-raising initiative between Mitt Romney and the Republican National Committee will aim to raise $800 million by November, part of what Mr. Romney’s campaign estimates will be a total of $1 billion spent to defeat President Obama and elect Mr. Romney, a former Massachusetts governor."

$800 Million Target for Romney Campaign and Republican Committee - NYTimes.com

The median income in the United States is about $50,000, so I doubt very many 99 percenters are able to meet the $75,000 minimum that was expected at a recent Romney fundraiser. Did you know the goal of the RNC is to raise $800 million by November? Imagine how many families could be helped if just half of that was used to train people for the new job market, as opposed to being spent to help one guy get hired?

Sadly, Pres. Obama is not immune from this push for funds. Just last week, Obama -- with George Clooney -- raised $15 million in one night. This makes me wonder how in the hell our political process became so distorted that Obama needs this much money to run for re-election.

Campaign finance reform, one of Ron Paul's points, is one specific reason, other than that he is at least honest with his views, why I like him as a politician.

I am still going to vote for Pres. Obama, but this time around, I am not going to send him any money.


----------



## kps

You hear the latest? Obama is gay. Must be true, heard it on the radio.

Okay, so let's see now, Obama is a socialist, muslim, homosexual Kenyan.

How did Donald Trump miss that?

Anyway, have a listen to what this guy has to say, it's absolutely hilarious...hmmm, kind'a looks ghay himself don't he?





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

If Obama is gay... is there anything wrong with that?


----------



## kps

Macfury said:


> If Obama is gay... is there anything wrong with that?


I'd say we're beyond that crap, don't you think?


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> I'd say we're beyond that crap, don't you think?


I believe so. I wish Obama had been a gay fiscal conservative.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just read this on CNN.com --

"Powell favors same-sex marriage

CNN's Gregory Wallace

(CNN) - Gen. Colin Powell said Wednesday on CNN's "The Situation Room" that he supports legal same-sex marriage, either at the state or federal level. 

"I have no problem with it," he said in the interview, which will air at 5 p.m. ET. "In terms of the legal matter of creating a contract between two people that's called marriage, and allowing them to live together with the protection of law, it seems to me is the way we should be moving in this country. And so I support the president's decision." "

Did not expect this support from him ................ what next, him supporting the reelection of Pres. Obama???? :clap:


----------



## i-rui

oh dear....

Mitt Romney iPhone App, 'With Mitt,' Misspells 'America'


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> oh dear....
> 
> Mitt Romney iPhone App, 'With Mitt,' Misspells 'America'


Now, now ............. Romney would be elected president to fix the economy and not the education system.


----------



## i-rui

his campaign probably outsourced the job to China to save a few bucks. 

(which is pretty much what would happen if he was president)


----------



## Macfury

I've held off on pointing out every factual error and spelling error made by Obama or his administration. Do we want to go down this road?


----------



## i-rui

if they are on the level of this gaffe then knock yourself out.

somehow i'm guessing all you'll have are understandable random human errors. nothing up to the level of incompetence demonstrated here. misspelling the name of the country on every splash screen on a political campaign's mobile app is next level.


----------



## jamesB

*Mitt Romney as the President of the Parallel Universe that is Amercia.*

Apparently not a misspell, he really wants to be president of *Amercia*.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> if they are on the level of this gaffe then knock yourself out.
> 
> somehow i'm guessing all you'll have are understandable random human errors. nothing up to the level of incompetence demonstrated here. misspelling the name of the country on every splash screen on a political campaign's mobile app is next level.


Obama's personal statement that he had visited all 57 states? That was him personally, not some flunky building an app.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Obama's personal statement that he had visited all 57 states? That was him personally, not some flunky building an app.





i-rui said:


> somehow i'm guessing all you'll have are understandable random human errors.


difference between a brief mental lapse and something that surely must have been months in development and should have been double/triple checked by his campaign staff.

also...



Macfury said:


> I've held off on pointing out every factual error and spelling error made by Obama or his administration. Do we want to go down this road?


have you really "held off" on Obama saying 57 states by mistake? i think this must be the third time i've seen you reference it.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> difference between a brief mental lapse and something that surely must have been months in development and should have been double/triple checked by his campaign staff.
> 
> also...
> 
> 
> 
> have you really "held off" on Obama saying 57 states by mistake? i think this must be the third time i've seen you reference it.


Hey, cut Pres. Obama some slack, since according to Donald Trump, he was not even born in America.

Still, so long as Mitt Ronmey can run America like he did Bain Corp., it makes no difference how he spells America ............ since any sort of miscue on an Etch-a-Sketch can easily be corrected with just a shake.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, cut Pres. Obama some slack, since according to Donald Trump, he was not even born in America.
> 
> Still, so long as Mitt Ronmey can run America like he did Bain Corp., it makes no difference how he spells America ............ since any sort of miscue on an Etch-a-Sketch can easily be corrected with just a shake.


Unfortunately, we cannot correct four years of Obama's presidency with just a shake. His damage will take years to undo.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Unfortunately, we cannot correct four years of Obama's presidency with just a shake. His damage will take years to undo.


With luck, Mitt Romney will get a full two term presidency ............. and with any further luck and a Republican held Congress, they will do away with the 22nd Amendment, giving Mitt Romney enough time to do as he wants without worrying about what the people want/need, what the Constitution dictates, and what is good for America ..... however you spell this word. After all, it took FDR four terms to clean up the mess caused by Hoover. 

We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> With luck, Mitt Romney will get a full two term presidency ............. and with any further luck and a Republican held Congress, they will do away with the 22nd Amendment, giving Mitt Romney enough time to do as he wants without worrying about what the people want/need, what the Constitution dictates, and what is good for America ..... however you spell this word. After all, it took FDR four terms to clean up the mess caused by Hoover.
> 
> We shall see.


It may take only one term to deal with the mess left by FDR.


----------



## i-rui

next time Mitt should just stick to calling the country USA - much less chance of a spelling error.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It may take only one term to deal with the mess left by FDR.


Well, Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and II had their chances ............. guess we are going to need the Tea Party to finally put the last nail into the coffin of the New Deal/Great Society .............. which, while helping millions of Americans, has caused great stress upon the wealthy in the US. According to Fox News, Romney now has the support of more billionaires than any other president or presidential candidate in the history of the Republic. Hopefully, this money will help to cover up any faults that Romney might bring to the election. Who knows, he is young enough to go 5+ terms ........... or just do away with presidential elections and run the US like a corporation??? We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and II had their chances ............. guess we are going to need the Tea Party to finally put the last nail into the coffin of the New Deal/Great Society


This is my hope. The Great Society is becoming indistinguishable form a European welfare state--with higher taxes to boot.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is my hope. The Great Society is becoming indistinguishable form a European welfare state--with higher taxes to boot.


We shall see. Hopefully, they can cut the many social and environmental benefits put in place by LBJ that helped generations of people of all ages, and change around the tax code to place a greater burden upon these people, keep the benefits flowing to the Tea Party supporters while not raising corporate taxes or resorting to the taxation of the super wealthy. It won't be easy for Romney, but if he is strong enough to withstand the overt suffering of millions of Americans, he might just pull it off. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see. Hopefully, they can cut the many social and environmental benefits put in place by LBJ that helped generations of people of all ages, and change around the tax code to place a greater burden upon these people, keep the benefits flowing to the Tea Party supporters while not raising corporate taxes or resorting to the taxation of the super wealthy. It won't be easy for Romney, but if he is strong enough to withstand the overt suffering of millions of Americans, he might just pull it off. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Ahh, the failed Great Experiment which transfers "suffering" from able bodied people to the middle class.

We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ahh, the failed Great Experiment which transfers "suffering" from able bodied people to the middle class.
> 
> We shall see.


Yes, good point, Macfury. I say, "let them suffer" ............. or at least "let them eat cake". The middle class has suffered enough, and if the upper class should ever feel this pain, then there will less to "trickle down" to the rest of us. The US needs to really stop the flow of red ink. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

jamesB said:


> Apparently not a misspell, he really wants to be president of *Amercia*.


Hey, when Mitt Romney becomes president, he will make singing "Amercia teh Buetiflu" standard practice in US schools, along with prayers ............ and maybe even those weekly spelling tests we all hated. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

jamesB said:


> Apparently not a misspell, he really wants to be president of *Amercia*.


At least this proves Donald Trump correct -- Pres. Obama was NOT born in Hawaii, the 50th state in the United States of Amercia.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> At least this proves Donald Trump correct -- Pres. Obama was NOT born in Hawaii, the 50th state in the United States of Amercia.


I will say this--the document produced by the White House was clearly not an original certificate. I have no idea why they would further stoke up the debate by providing such an obvious paste-job.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will say this--the document produced by the White House was clearly not an original certificate. I have no idea why they would further stoke up the debate by providing such an obvious paste-job.


Now CNN and the Gov. of Hawaii are in on this conspiracy/cover-up as well. Wonder if Romney will select Trump as his VP candidate???? If so, the election is his for the asking ............. and Trump can fund his own campaign as well. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

I believe there is _something_ being covered up, but not the nationality of the president. Would that it would be so easy to flush him from office.



Dr.G. said:


> Now CNN and the Gov. of Hawaii are in on this conspiracy/cover-up as well. Wonder if Romney will select Trump as his VP candidate???? If so, the election is his for the asking ............. and Trump can fund his own campaign as well. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe there is _something_ being covered up, but not the nationality of the president. Would that it would be so easy to flush him from office.


Good point, Macfury. There has to be some reason for his being elected president in the first place. After all, when was the last time a US Senator was elected president??? As well, we all know what happened to JFK, the last US Senator to be elected president.

Still, with Karl Rove coming on board the Romney team to provide his "3-2-1" plan for a Romney presidency, I think that it is becoming clear who shall win in Nov. Not sure if Romney can do all that he is saying he will do on day one, but the sooner he gets the deadbeats off the backs of the US taxpayer, the sooner the country will be back on the right path (no pun intended). 

Of course, Romney could select Sarah Palin as his VP running mate and make the election really interesting. I don't see that happening. We shall see.

Have you joined up with "Canadians for a New Amercia"? It is a Superpac to support the Romney cause here in Canada, and to surpress the US vote for Pres. Obama here in Canada by all those pinko American citizens who are eligible to vote in a federal US election.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Have you joined up with "Canadians for a New Amercia"? It is a Superpac to support the Romney cause here in Canada, and to surpress the US vote for Pres. Obama here in Canada by all those pinko American citizens who are eligible to vote in a federal US election.


I would probably do this, but Obama is doing such a great job of suppressing his own vote. I don't think I could outdo his efforts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would probably do this, but Obama is doing such a great job of suppressing his own vote. I don't think I could outdo his efforts.


Still, why not get behind a winner like the rest of us ................ stand up for Amercia, regardless of where you live or your nationality. There will come a time in the near future when, as former Pres. Bush once said, "You are either with us or against us." For me, I would like to be on the winning side to show I have nothing to hide. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## i-rui

Colbert is the best 





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Colbert is the best
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Ronmey in 2102 has a nice ring to it .................


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Ronmey in 2102 has a nice ring to it .................


Could be a Dynasty of Republicans all the way into the next century. Excellent vision, Dr. G!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Could be a Dynasty of Republicans all the way into the next century.


Given that the Republicans of the last century were far to the Left of current Democrats (let alone current Republicans), and the fact that the U.S. cannot possibly sustain it's culture of consumerism and war-mongering, whatever party occupies the White House in the future is bound to be far to the Left of the current occupant.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Could be a Dynasty of Republicans all the way into the next century. Excellent vision, Dr. G!


Well, Mitt Romney was born on March 12th, 1947. Ronald Reagan was born on February 6, 1911 and became president on January 20, 1981 when he was 69 years of age. So, Romney has the youth to serve two terms ........... at least. If the Republicans can crush the Democrats and take control of the House and Senate, and most of the state houses as well, they could overturn the 22nd Amendment limiting the number of terms for a president to two. Or, he could run as Milt Ronmey and get another two terms, especially if he is able to paraphrase Reagan's classic comment that "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem." 

He could run on an anti-Obama platform this election, and then run on an anti-Great Society platform in 2016. Then, as Milt Ronmey, he could run on an anti-New Deal platform. He could bring back the "Old Deal" on social darwinism and the robber barons.

Heck, if Elizabeth II is 86, he should be able to go another 4-8 years and become the oldest and longest serving president in the history of the US.

The only problem I foresee is his selecting a real dud of a VP running mate (e.g., Donald Trump), or if Donald Trump turns on him for not selecting him as the VP candidate and "The Donald" brings up the birther issue for Romney/Ronmey, since Mitt Romney was born in Detroit, but Milt Ronmey was born in Chihuahua, Mexico. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Given that the Republicans of the last century were far to the Left of current Democrats (let alone current Republicans), and the fact that the U.S. cannot possibly sustain it's culture of consumerism and war-mongering, whatever party occupies the White House in the future is bound to be far to the Left of the current occupant.


At least you admit that the economic decay of the U.S. is the result of a shift to the left over the years,


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> At least you admit that the economic decay of the U.S. is the result of a shift to the left over the years,


Um... unless you're arguing that the U.S. is in better shape now than it was in the last century, you might want to try re-reading what I posted. Both parties have moved dramatically to the Right in the 50 years, with Obama now firmly to the Right of Republicans of the past.


----------



## bryanc

In this country of ours, so proud, strong and free,
We did things and made things the whole world could see.
But times, they have changed, now we needn't get dirty,
Since Wall Street makes things so many find purty.
It's all different now, thanks to the bankers' ascendance,
Inventing new-paper contraptions, 'fore I finish this sentence!
We'll package and bundle and wager and bet,
What's good for the Street will be good for you yet!
And if things should go wrong and our faces turn pale,
Our most favorite part is, we're too big to fail!
Now cabbies and pickers will pick up the slack,
Your taxes will bring the bankers right back . . .
. . . To the top where we keep spreading good news
Of deregulation and our free-market views!
We know what we're doing, just stop with the rules!
With our proven track record, see, regulation's for fools!
Now we're buying both sides, to do our good bidding.
That whole Democracy thing, surely you're kidding!
With money our speech, the whole world's our play . . .
. . . to make sure we win either way.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Um... unless you're arguing that the U.S. is in better shape now than it was in the last century, you might want to try re-reading what I posted. Both parties have moved dramatically to the Right in the 50 years, *with Obama now firmly to the Right of Republicans of the past.*


Sorry, that makes utterly no sense.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> At least you admit that the economic decay of the U.S. is the result of a shift to the left over the years,


An excellent observation. Look at the economic prosperity of the "Roaring twenties" .......... brought about by Harding and Coolidge, both Republicans. When the Wall Street Crash of 1929 struck less than eight months after he took office, Hoover tried to combat the ensuing Great Depression with public works projects and an increase in the top tax bracket from 25% to 63%, and increases in corporate taxes. Public works and raising the tax rate on wealthy Americans is a leftist ploy, so while Hoover was elected as a Republican, he was really a Democrat in disguise. Roosevelt, with all of his programs, was a socialist/communist, that ruined America, dispite all the people who were saved from starvation and dispair.

Good times returned to America in the 50's with Eisenhower, a Republican ............ and again came back after the Carter-caused recession by Reagan, a real Republican.

Thus, good times are brought about by Republicans and hard times are caused by Democrats.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Fiore, etc.


The U.S. is a deregulated society? Hilarious.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Sorry, that makes utterly no sense.


Many have noted that Obama is functionally to the Right of even recent Republicans (including Reagan). And if you consider his inaction on Gitmo, support for bank bailouts, sustained tax breaks for the rich, etc. He's hard to distinguish from Bush.

However, in their desperate armpit-soaking terror of being unable to distinguish themselves from Democrats, the Republicans continue to move further to the Right, even when it takes them into loony-tunes radical fringe territory.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Many have noted that Obama is functionally to the Right of even recent Republicans (including Reagan). And if you consider his inaction on Gitmo, support for bank bailouts, sustained tax breaks for the rich, etc. He's hard to distinguish from Bush.


Bush pushed the party to the left, not right. Obama doubled Bush's efforts.


----------



## kps

Any news from the Bilderberg meeting as to who they chose to be the new president?


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> Any news from the Bilderberg meeting as to who they chose to be the new president?


The Buffalo Bills.


----------



## kps

Sing it...



> Hey, Buffalo Bill
> What did you kill
> Buffalo Bill?
> 
> He went out tiger hunting with his elephant and gun
> In case of accidents he always took his mom
> He's the all American bullet-headed saxon mother's son.
> All the children sing
> 
> Hey Buffalo Bill
> What did you kill
> Buffalo Bill?
> 
> Deep in the jungle where the mighty tiger lies
> Bill and his elephants were taken by surprise
> So Captain Marvel zapped in right between the eyes
> All the children sing
> 
> Hey, Buffalo Bill
> What did you kill
> Buffalo Bill?
> 
> The children asked him if to kill was not a sin
> Not when he looked so fierce, his mother butted in
> If looks could kill it would have been us instead of him
> All the children sing
> 
> Hey, Buffalo Bill
> What did you kill
> Buffalo Bill?


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

The boy should get detention for missing school. A president can pardon criminals ................. but not truants.


----------



## Macfury

What a set-up.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What a set-up.


Right ............ while hard working white collar criminals sit and rot in Club Feb prisons.


----------



## Macfury

I'm happy to see that Governor Scott Walker survived the union-funded effort to recall him in Wisconsin.


----------



## i-rui

as opposed to the Koch brothers/tea party radicals that funded Walker?

sad to see money still buys votes.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> sad to see money still buys votes.


Look on the bright side, then--you should be happy that the millions of dollars pouring into the state from unions, Democrats and their associated Super PACs failed to buy enough votes to turn the tide.


----------



## i-rui

because they were easily outspent by Walker and the wealthy industrialists who pull his strings.



> Walker's $31 million war chest dwarfs that of his opponent, Milwaukee Mayor and Democrat Tom Barrett, who raised nearly $4 million.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> because they were easily outspent by Walker and the wealthy industrialists who pull his strings.


The recall effort was spurred and financed by the unions, particularly the SEIU--so they can be credited with the entire wasteful fiasco of a re-election. However, whoever is pulling Walker's strings is doing a fantastic job! I believe this to be a harbinger of the fall election.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – "Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, tea party favorite and son of presidential candidate Ron Paul, officially endorsed Mitt Romney late Thursday night.

"My first choice had always been my father. I campaigned for him when I was 11-years-old. He's still my first pick, but now that the nominating process is over, tonight I'm happy to announce that I'm going to be supporting Gov. Mitt Romney," Rand Paul said on Fox News."

I can just see Ron Paul telling his wife ........ "Son? What son? We have no son."


----------



## Dr.G.

Rosemont, Illinois (CNN) - "Marco Rubio has repeatedly pushed back against talk of becoming Mitt Romney's running mate. The Florida senator has previously said, "I'm not going to be the vice president," and in another instance suggested former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush for the job. 

Despite that, Rubio's name consistently percolates near the top of many potential VP lists.

The latest came on Friday evening, as Rubio won the vice presidential straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Conference near Chicago."


TRENDING: CPAC attendees prop up Rubio as other potential VPs audition – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Gus is fully supportive of Pres. Barack Obama, but Gracie wants to sleep on it one more day before she wears one of his re-election pins. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

There was an assassination attempt on VP Biden this afternoon. Luckily, he followed his Second Amendment rights and was armed himself.

Washington (CNN) - Vice President Joe Biden's cordial annual media picnic turned into an all-out war between the vice president and children of journalists in attendance. 

The vice president distributed high-powered water guns to the children gathered at his official residence and identified notable journalists for them to pursue.


----------



## Dr.G.

A good review of the positive effects of immigration in Canada, and the need for immigration in the US.

Immigration lessons for the U.S. from around the world – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Archie Bunker on Democrats - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

How shall it be celebrated/remembered???

"(CNN) -- Forty years ago this Sunday, the Watergate break-in began the downward spiral of the Richard M. Nixon administration, ending with the disgraced president's resignation a little more than two years later.

On the night of June 17, 1972, the Washington hotel served as a base for an illegal break-in by operatives of the Nixon re-election campaign at the offices of the Democratic National Committee, located in the Watergate office building next door. Five burglars were arrested.

Rookie Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein used leaked information from a source they dubbed "Deep Throat" in hundreds of articles about the ensuing scandal."

40 years later, remembering Watergate scandal's 'Deep Throat' - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> How shall it be celebrated/remembered???
> 
> "(CNN) -- Forty years ago this Sunday, the Watergate break-in began the downward spiral of the Richard M. Nixon administration, ending with the disgraced president's resignation a little more than two years later.
> 
> On the night of June 17, 1972, the Washington hotel served as a base for an illegal break-in by operatives of the Nixon re-election campaign at the offices of the Democratic National Committee, located in the Watergate office building next door. Five burglars were arrested.
> 
> Rookie Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein used leaked information from a source they dubbed "Deep Throat" in hundreds of articles about the ensuing scandal."
> 
> 40 years later, remembering Watergate scandal's 'Deep Throat' - CNN.com


I should hope it will be celebrated by throwing Obama out of office in the fall. The two politicians share much in their love of fiat and executive orders.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – While his son came out in support for Mitt Romney last week, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas said Tuesday he won't be following suit. 

"No. Not ready. No way," Paul said on CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer" when asked if he was ready to endorse Romney.

Ron Paul: ‘No way’ on being ready to endorse Romney – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Good for Congressman Paul. He is at least sticking to his beliefs.


----------



## Macfury

If he is going to the convention, why would he endorse anyone?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If he is going to the convention, why would he endorse anyone?


Agreed. Hopefully, he will be allowed to speak at the convention. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in -- The Supreme Court today upheld the individual health-insurance mandate that is at the heart of President Obama’s landmark health-care law, saying the mandate is permissible under Congress’s taxing authority.

I am sure that some will quickly jump upon this posting, blasting Pres. Obama, et al, but I for one think that it is a good move to help millions upon millions of American citizens. We shall see.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Sonal

Dr.G. said:


> This just in -- The Supreme Court today upheld the individual health-insurance mandate that is at the heart of President Obama’s landmark health-care law, saying the mandate is permissible under Congress’s taxing authority.
> 
> I am sure that some will quickly jump upon this posting, blasting Pres. Obama, et al, but I for one think that it is a good move to help millions upon millions of American citizens. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mes amis.


I agree. I'm very happy with the SCOTUS today.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> This just in -- The Supreme Court today upheld the individual health-insurance mandate that is at the heart of President Obama’s landmark health-care law, saying the mandate is permissible under Congress’s taxing authority.
> 
> I am sure that some will quickly jump upon this posting, blasting Pres. Obama, et al, but I for one think that it is a good move to help millions upon millions of American citizens. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mes amis.


While the claimed intent was to reduce the impact on hospitals from the uninsured, the fact is that many uninsured Americans simply cannot afford coverage of any kind. The effect is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.


----------



## Sonal

eMacMan said:


> While the claimed intent was to reduce the impact on hospitals from the uninsured, the fact is that many uninsured Americans simply cannot afford coverage of any kind. The effect is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.


I believe that as of 2014, the Act expands Medicare eligibility to ensure more low-income Americans have coverage.


----------



## eMacMan

Sonal said:


> I believe that as of 2014, the Act expands Medicare eligibility to ensure more low-income Americans have coverage.


Currently Medicare Plan B cost is $165/month (Perhaps depending on State). Another $45-$65/ month must also be spent on intermediary insurance as no medical providers will attempt to deal directly with Medicare. 

Someone who cannot find employment due to pre-existing medical conditions is very unlikely to have $200/month spare income to devote to medical insurance even if the Medicare Gods should decide they are eligible.


----------



## Sonal

eMacMan said:


> Currently Medicare Plan B cost is $165/month (Perhaps depending on State). Another $45-$65/ month must also be spent on intermediary insurance as no medical providers will attempt to deal directly with Medicare.
> 
> Someone who cannot find employment due to pre-existing medical conditions is very unlikely to have $200/month spare income to devote to medical insurance even if the Medicare Gods should decide they are eligible.


As of 2014, Insurers are prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates due to pre-existing conditions.

I'm not saying the Act is perfect, but it's not like they didn't at least consider some of these issues.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I agree. I'm very happy with the SCOTUS today.


Yes, I too am happy .............. but surprised that they went this way with their decision. I can't help think of the millions of people who will be helped with medical care they would not have had if the decision went the other way.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

An interesting timeline re medical care for all Americans. That final few seconds of the video reminded me of the signing ceremony that FDR had when he signed Social Secutiry into law. Just think of the millions upon millions of seniors and survivors that helped. Hopefully, this will do the same. We shall see.


----------



## i-rui

the cynic in me can't help but think they did it at the behest of the insurance companies since most of the SC's decisions seem to be corporately motivated as of late.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> As of 2014, Insurers are prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates due to pre-existing conditions.
> 
> I'm not saying the Act is perfect, but it's not like they didn't at least consider some of these issues.


This is insane. If you can by insurance for pre-exisitng conditions, it's not insurance.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> This just in -- The Supreme Court today upheld the individual health-insurance mandate that is at the heart of President Obama’s landmark health-care law, saying the mandate is permissible under Congress’s taxing authority.
> 
> I am sure that some will quickly jump upon this posting, blasting Pres. Obama, et al, but I for one think that it is a good move to help millions upon millions of American citizens. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mes amis.




It will not help them and will be overturned in the fall.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> It will not help them and will be overturned in the fall.


Because of all of these people:

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It will not help them and will be overturned in the fall.


Sadly, if Romney does get elected, he intends to do just this. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> Because of all of these people:
> 
> People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare


I remember hearing the same sort of thing when George Bush Jr. was elected. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It will not help them and will be overturned in the fall.


Here are some who it might help ...........

"As the Supreme Court makes its decision regarding the Affordable Care Act, we talked to just a few of the millions of Americans who will be affected."

The real people behind health care reform


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, if Romney does get elected, he intends to do just this. We shall see.


Happily, if Romney does get elected, he intends to do just this.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Happily, if Romney does get elected, he intends to do just this.


As I said, we shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Happily, if Romney does get elected, he intends to do just this.


Well, Romney and his supporters can pay for a hell-of-a-lot more attack ads... er... I mean "free speech" than the Democrats, but I don't see this election as a slam dunk.

And, to be honest, I'm kind of surprised; I figured whoever wound up holding the bag after Bush (who will doubtless become known as the worst president in US history), would be a one term president just because no one could survive the blow back from Bush's disastrous decisions. But it looks like Obama may be able to hang on. It'll be interesting to watch.


----------



## Macfury

As people on the government rolls increase to greater than 50%, the likelihood of even a weak Democrat presidential candidate being elected increases. No surprise with these sorts of hand-outs.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> As people on the government rolls increase to greater than 50%, the likelihood of even a weak Democrat presidential candidate being elected increases. No surprise with these sorts of hand-outs.


I thought public sector employment was down compared to Bush?


----------



## CubaMark

*Unbelievable*. Or... wait, no, we're talking about the *Republicans* - _completely_ believable:

*Texas GOP’s 2012 Platform Accidentally Opposes Teaching Of ‘Critical Thinking Skills’*



> The Republican Party of Texas’ recently adopted 2012 platform contains a plank that opposes the teaching of “critical thinking skills” in schools. The party says it was a mistake, but is now stuck with the plank until the next state convention in 2014.
> 
> The plank in question, on “Knowledge-Based Education,” reads as follows:
> 
> We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.​
> Elsewhere in the document, the platform stipulates that “[e]very Republican is responsible for implementing this platform.”


(TalkingPointsMemo and DailyKOS and TheDailyTexan)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Unbelievable*. Or... wait, no, we're talking about the *Republicans* - _completely_ believable:
> 
> *Texas GOP’s 2012 Platform Accidentally Opposes Teaching Of ‘Critical Thinking Skills’*
> 
> 
> 
> (TalkingPointsMemo and DailyKOS and TheDailyTexan)


I tell my students that if you want your students to read/listen/observe/view with a deeper understanding, you need to help them learn to be critical thinkers. Luckily, none of my students are teaching in Texas.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> I thought public sector employment was down compared to Bush?


I was referring to welfare-type programs. However, all employment is down under Obama, so I believe what you say is true by default. 

Obama recently stated that increased government hiring was necessary to bring the economy back to strength.


----------



## Dr.G.

Happy 4th of July to one and all, especially those of us who are Americans. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## bryanc

*good Fiore animation this week...*

Fiore has posted a nice spoof on the typical TV drug ad lampooning the Republican stance on health care this week.

Adds extra comedic value to the $3B fine GlaxoSmithKline has been hit with for fraudulently marketing it's antidepressants. But who would ever have imagined that the free market would make pushing antidepressants profitable?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Fiore has posted a nice spoof on the typical TV drug ad lampooning the Republican stance on health care this week.
> 
> Adds extra comedic value to the $3B fine GlaxoSmithKline has been hit with for fraudulently marketing it's antidepressants. But who would ever have imagined that the free market would make pushing antidepressants profitable?


Neither the free market, nor the heaviest sort of regulation can prevent misbehaviour of individuals. However, public health is universally mismanaged.


----------



## bryanc

*Another one I found amusing*


----------



## Macfury

I enjoy seeing Barackman being beat up. I hope this is a foreshadowing of November.


----------



## kps

Abandoning USS Obama. 

Socialite, songwriter Denise Rich renounces U.S. citizenship - CNN.com



> Rich's maiden name, Eisenberg, appeared on April 30 in the Federal Registrar's Quarterly Publication of Individuals Who Have Chosen To Expatriate, though she left in November 2011.
> 
> By handing in her American passport, *tax lawyers* say she is able to legally avoid paying significant taxes on her estate.
> 
> Rich, 68, is the ex-wife of billionaire commodities trader Marc Rich, who was pardoned in 2001 by then-president Bill Clinton for oil profiteering and tax evasion after he fled to Switzerland. The pardon was considered controversial because of *Denise Rich's financial contributions to the Democratic Party and to the Clinton Library.*


----------



## kps

Wow...crickets. LOL


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> Wow...crickets. LOL


I'm noting Obamagedoon, but generally the people here only like to post if it looks like Obama is succeeding.


----------



## kps

Macfury said:


> I'm noting Obamagedoon, but generally the people here only like to post if it looks like Obama is succeeding.


I posted this specifically for the dual citizens here who had some concerns about being forced to pay US taxes.


----------



## i-rui

kps said:


> Wow...crickets. LOL


i didn't really see how it had anything to do with Obama TBH.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> i didn't really see how it had anything to do with Obama TBH.


Obama wants to increase taxes on a large portion of the population. Some of them are leaving the country.

His massive tax-fueled Obamacare is the largest single tax hike ever inflicted on the American middle class.

A one-two punch to the gut.


----------



## i-rui

actually Obama wants to extend the Bush Tax cuts to the middle class.

I think the story has little to do with Obama, and more to do with the global economic climate :



> "Expatriation makes the most sense when asset values are historically low and tax rates are historically low. Her timing may have had something to do with that," tax attorney David S. Miller of Cadwalader, Wickersham, & Taft LLP said.


----------



## kps

Typical lawyer deflection...

No, the story is about her not wanting to pay taxes in two countries and is willing to give up one of the world's most desirable citizenships in order to do so...and strangely enough, she's not the only one.


----------



## i-rui

kps said:


> Typical lawyer deflection...


it wasn't HER lawyer who was quoted, just a Tax Lawyer who was lending his expert opinion to the article.



kps said:


> No, the story is about her *not wanting to pay taxes in two countries* and is willing to give up one of the world's most desirable citizenships in order to do so...and strangely enough, she's not the only one.


i agree completely. it's about that, and not anything about Obama. She already lives in London, in the twilight of her life, and probably settled down there.

The US has brutal tax laws on residents living abroad. It's a financial decision.

As for the "one of the world's most desirable citizenships", Conrad Black renounced his Canadian citizenship for a lousy title...and i'd rate Canadian Citizenship up there as pretty desirable. 

People do things for their own reasons, and own self interests all the time.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> it wasn't HER lawyer who was quoted, just a Tax Lawyer who was lending his expert opinion to the article.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree completely. it's about that, and not anything about Obama. She already lives in London, in the twilight of her life, and probably settled down there.
> 
> The US has brutal tax laws on residents living abroad. It's a financial decision.
> 
> As for the "one of the world's most desirable citizenships", Conrad Black renounced his Canadian citizenship for a lousy title...and i'd rate Canadian Citizenship up there as pretty desirable.
> 
> People do things for their own reasons, and own self interests all the time.


Nothing to see in Obamaville. Move along folks.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> it wasn't HER lawyer who was quoted, just a Tax Lawyer who was lending his expert opinion to the article.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree completely. it's about that, and not anything about Obama. She already lives in London, in the twilight of her life, and probably settled down there.
> 
> The US has brutal tax laws on residents living abroad. It's a financial decision.
> 
> As for the "one of the world's most desirable citizenships", Conrad Black renounced his Canadian citizenship for a lousy title...and i'd rate Canadian Citizenship up there as pretty desirable.
> 
> People do things for their own reasons, and own self interests all the time.


You are completely right. Throughout several campaigns there has been quite a few instances I can recall where a number of US citizens have publicly made a big show of announcing their desire to leave the US and denounce their US citizenship for some reason or another. If it's for some reasons to protest the republicans, well they're just a bunch socialist whiners. If it's something the democrats have done, suddenly they have good reason! It's a difficult argument to win. If not impossible. 

It is true that Obama has stated that if he is brought a bill that extends the tax cuts on the middle class he'll sign it. Period. I think that's pretty clear.

What the big problem is, is he wants to tax the rich as it has been shown many many times that they do NOT pay their fair share, and there is a big campaign to convince everyone that Obama is simply big taxes. When in fact the very people being convinced of this nonsense would be the ones getting the tax cuts (or would be) should the bill ever be agreed on. Sort of what we saw with those tea party demonstrations that had people with no health insurance at all, holding placards denouncing the healthcare plans that he would benefit from, while supporting the obscene tax cuts to the rich (which somehow, we could afford!)

Similar problems here in Canada, where we were told that we all have to wait for our tax cuts when our government has balanced the budget. But boy, the rich sure got theirs with the corporate tax cut, which was supposed to create jobs! Well they took effect a while ago, and w're seeing a slowdown in hiring.

Interesting.


----------



## MacDoc

Will wonders never cease - maybe there is some faint hope on the right after all.....



> Former Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC) was one of the last of the old guard congressional Republicans; you know, socially moderate, fiscally conservative, and observant of science. He lost his seat in 2010 after getting creamed in the primaries by an ascendent member of the new guard—*partly because he refused to renounce his agreement with the scientific fact that human activity is causing global warming.*
> 
> Now, he's teamed up with one of Ronald Reagan's economic advisers, Art Laffer, to form the Energy and Enterprise Institute, and plans on lobbying for conservative approaches to addressing climate change.* Their Big Idea—tax carbon, not income. And get rid of all subsidies for fuel, period.*
> 
> They're advocating for a scheme that's rather similar to the one favored by renowned NASA scientist Dr. James Hansen (with whom I once discussed these ideas on the Dylan Ratigan show). No sitting Republicans have expressed support for the initiative, and neither Inglis nor Laffer expect any of them to do so anytime soon—the climate change is too toxic an issue in the conservative zeitgeist, they reason. Grist has an interview with Inglis that delves more deeply into the philosophy behind the project.
> 
> The whole endeavor may seem rather ineffectual and perhaps in vain now, but it's encouraging to see some outspoken conservative support for addressing climate issues. Momentum has to start building somewhere; it might as well be with a congressman from South Carolina and one of Ronald Reagan's favorite policy wonks.


Ex-GOP Congressman and Reagan's Economic Adviser Call for a Carbon Tax | Digg Topnews


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Will wonders never cease - maybe there is some faint hope on the right after all.....


If they're calling for a carbon tax, they're not on the right. This is primarily a leftist dogma.


----------



## groovetube

I don't see how a carbon tax is necessarily 'leftist dogma'. It just so happens that many on the right are far more protective of the oil industry and it's massive subsidies. 

As macdoc points out, the conservatives actions are rather transparent in their hypocritical moves on wind power.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> This is primarily a leftist dogma.


Yes, everyone knows reality has a leftist bias.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Yes, everyone knows reality has a leftist bias.


A scientist, bandying about terms like "reality" in this fashion? Shameful!


----------



## MacDoc

Good advice tho one thing to be added is stricter regulation on fracking or risk backlash leading to it's banning as several states have done...










The American economy: Comeback kid | The Economist


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Good advice tho one thing to be added is stricter regulation on fracking or risk backlash leading to it's banning as several states have done...


The individual states should handle this. Obama's interference in these technologies has held back the economy long enough.


----------



## groovetube

Bain Capital shipping Illinois jobs to China - Video on NBCNews.com

Not the best optics for Mitt. It seems here too, despite this notion that somehow prostrating ourselves before the big corporations in the way of huge tax cuts and reverently whispering 'job creation', it isn't working very well at all.

We've been had. Again.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Bain Capital shipping Illinois jobs to China - Video on NBCNews.com
> 
> Not the best optics for Mitt. It seems here too, despite this notion that somehow prostrating ourselves before the big corporations in the way of huge tax cuts and reverently whispering 'job creation', it isn't working very well at all.
> 
> We've been had. Again.


Well, he was .......... or he wasn't CEO of Bain ............ only his tax returns will tell the tale and those are off limits to the voters. Still, I am betting on the fact that American voters will vote critically again this time around and reelect Pres. Obama. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

The purpose of a Carbon Tax is to steal from the poor and give to the rich. You cannot get any more Republican than that. 

The challenge for the Republirats is to find a way to avoid calling it a tax, and to expedite transferring the stolen loot directly to their Bankster Masters.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he was .......... or he wasn't CEO of Bain ............ only his tax returns will tell the tale and those are off limits to the voters. Still, I am betting on the fact that American voters will vote critically again this time aroun


Perhaps they are in the same vault as Obama's college transcripts and medical papers...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Perhaps they are in the same vault as Obama's college transcripts and medical papers...


No, since Pres. Obama's "vault" is in the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago

Mitt Romney is smart ............. all of his tax forms are in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. His accountants in the firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe are not Americans, and thus, not subject to American law .......... just like Romney is not subject to tax of this holdings.

Why is Mitt Romney Hiding the Rest of His Tax Returns? - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, since Pres. Obama's "vault" is in the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago


Is this where he is hiding his transcripts and medical records from the American public? Very interesting.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Is this where he is hiding his transcripts and medical records from the American public? Very interesting.


is it standard procedure for politicians to release that information??

a politician once released his tax returns for the last 12 years when he was running for office. He stated that it should be mandatory and the public should know "how a man conducted himself over the long haul."

That politician was George W. Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Is this where he is hiding his transcripts and medical records from the American public? Very interesting.


Yes. He graduated from Haveyard Law School, and NOT Harvard Law School, and his position as Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School was actually at the Chicago Lawn School. This is the problem with university degrees from prestigeous universities -- their names are in Latin and no one picked up on these spelling miscues. Both are agricultural schools, and this is why he was elected Obama was elected to the Illinois Senate in 1996 from Illinois's 13th District, which at that time spanned Chicago South Side neighborhoods from Hyde Park – Kenwood south to South Shore and west to Chicago Lawn. Notice the neighborhoods -- Kenwood, Hyde Park and Chicago Lawn ................ all related to his university training.

Notice also why Michelle Obama is so interested in the organic vegetable garden beside the West Wing's rose garden. It is all starting to make sense.

Now, if Ron Paul would only shut his mouth and not suggest that Romney reveal his tax records then he might have a good shot at the While House this November. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> is it standard procedure for politicians to release that information??
> 
> a politician once released his tax returns for the last 12 years when he was running for office. He stated that it should be mandatory and the public should know "how a man conducted himself over the long haul."
> 
> That politician was George W. Romney.


Mitt Romney should denouce his father as a traitor to the conservative cause. Just read this on wikipedia, and, if true, shows that George W. was a moderate Republican .......... or far worse, a liberal. 

"Romney entered politics by participating in a state constitutional convention to rewrite the Michigan Constitution during 1961–1962. He was elected Governor of Michigan in 1962 and was re-elected by increasingly large margins in 1964 and 1966. Romney worked to overhaul the state's financial and revenue structure, culminating in Michigan's first state income tax, and greatly expanded the size of state government. Romney was a strong supporter of the American Civil Rights Movement. He briefly represented moderate Republicans against conservative Republican Barry Goldwater during the 1964 U.S. presidential election. He requested the intervention of federal troops during the 1967 Detroit riot."


----------



## Dr.G.

Why won't Romney release more tax returns? - CNN.com

Two more conservatives who have betrayed the cause set forth by Pres. Calvin Coolidge -- "The business of America is business" .......... and that income tax records are no one's business. It is a record between the indivdual, the IRS and God .............. and on every American bill is the phrase "In God we trust". So, anyone not trusting Mitt Romney and his claim that he has nothing to hide is not trusting God.


----------



## i-rui

Romney is backed into a corner. The longer he doesn't release his previous years returns the more people will speculate on what he is hiding. 

of course, if he does release them and it's worse than his 2010 return (where he paid less than 13.9% on 21.6 million.....) he'll be painted as a tax dodger.

brilliant campaign move by the Obama camp.

**edited the tax return numbers


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Romney is backed into a corner. The longer he doesn't release his previous years returns the more people will speculate on what he is hiding.
> 
> of course, if he does release them and it's worse than his 2010 return (where he paid less than 15% on 40+ million.....) he'll be painted as a tax dodger.
> 
> brilliant campaign move by the Obama camp.


He should go on the offensive and claim that Pres. Obama is a draft dodger. Whether this is true or not, it will raise doubt in the mind of many voters.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> is it standard procedure for politicians to release that information??


It's considered unusual when they don't. Bill Clinton refused to release his medical records, a source of some speculation.


----------



## groovetube

far less people really care about Obama's medical records, save for a few vocal ones.

But the tax returns of Romney's, well that's making a bigger issue. Though I'm sure his supporters really wish it wouldn't.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> far less people really care about Obama's medical records, save for a few vocal ones.
> 
> But the tax returns of Romney's, well that's making a bigger issue. Though I'm sure his supporters really wish it wouldn't.


True ............ but Romney supporters need to continue their request for Pres. Obama's medical records, college transcripts, birth certificate, parking tickets, etc, in order to keep the heat away from Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

Does big money spell big trouble in campaigns? - CNN.com

Luckily, Romney has some big spenders on his side and they are willing to help push his agenda .............. and push him all the way to the White House. Not sure where they will push him once he is sworn in, but I am sure that their money will help get them a few minutes of his time. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Obama is out-fundrasiing Romney--though with Obama's recent public gaffes, this may change.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama is out-fundrasiing Romney--though with Obama's recent public gaffes, this may change.


I am afraid not, Macfury, at least according to Romney's campaign chairman. Still, I think that a key person to silence will be Ron Paul. He can still make things difficult at the convention, and start to raise issues that Romney would rather have buried. As well, I feel that Ron Paul is too principled to allow himself to be bought off with the promised of "good things" coming to Rand Paul in a Romney administration. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama is out-fundrasiing Romney--though with Obama's recent public gaffes, this may change.


Yes, he was booed when he would not kiss Michelle Obama at a basketball game in Washington, DC, and they were on the "kiss cam". It made papers all over the world, including Enid, OK ............ a key area for any person wishing to be president to win.

Kiss me, Michelle: Obama misses the buss » Opinion » The Enid News and Eagle, Enid, OK


----------



## i-rui

Romney is outspending Obama 2-1.

i'm sure that will get ramped up closer to november.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Romney is outspending Obama 2-1.
> 
> i'm sure that will get ramped up closer to november.


True. Romney is now raising ove three times what Pres. Obama is raising, and spending twice what he is spending. Hopefully, the Romney campaign will put out so many negative ads re Pres. Obama that most Democrats will ask themselves "Yes we can .............. can what???"

(CNN) - Restore our Future, the super PAC backing presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney, brought in $20 million in June, the group said Monday.

That marks a major jump from last month, when Restore our Future reported bringing in $4.6 million. The spike is not a surprise, however, since the group received a $10 million donation from Sheldon and Miriam Adelson in June." 

Pro-Romney super PAC brings in $20 million in June – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Top super PAC donors - Sheldon and Miriam Adelson (1) - CNNMoney


----------



## groovetube

weeeeee!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> weeeeee!


Sounds like Mitt Romney sliding all the way to the bank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Romney is now raising ove three times what Pres. Obama is raising, and spending twice what he is spending. ]


Excellent--they've traded places!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Excellent--they've traded places!


Yes, an excellent position. If Romney can raise more than Pres. Obama, he will have more to spend on negative ads and disinformation. It's a win-win for him. Now, we just have to wait and see who he selects as his VP.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) "McCain refutes accusations by fellow Republicans about Hillary Clinton aide 


Republican Senator John McCain (AZ) took to the Senate floor Wednesday to criticize fellow Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann (MN) and four other Republican members of Congress about their request that various agencies investigate whether the government has been infiltrated by Muslim extremists.

Bachmann is joined in her request by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX), Trent Franks (R-AZ), Rep. Thomas Rooney (R-FL) and Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA).

Among the issues they raise is a claim that long-time aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Huma Abedin, has three family members connected to the Muslim Brotherhood, and is at risk of being influenced by her family members. The members of Congress want to know how she holds a high level security clearance."


McCain refutes accusations by fellow Republicans about Hillary Clinton aide – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Shades of Sen. Joe McCarthy ........................

Senator McCarthy Claims Communist Infiltration - YouTube


----------



## i-rui

this after Rep. Allen West claiming there are upwards of 78 to 81 members of the Communist Party sitting in Congress within the Democratic Party.

the modern day Republican party is just bats#@t crazy. no ifs ands or buts about it.


----------



## Macfury

McCarthy was correct, but I don't approve of his investigations.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> this after Rep. Allen West claiming there are upwards of 78 to 81 members of the Communist Party sitting in Congress within the Democratic Party.
> 
> the modern day Republican party is just bats#@t crazy. no ifs ands or buts about it.


The fear card works. Communists! Muslims! OMG!

Beware! The masses will run in fear over this sort of thing, that's why they do it.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> this after Rep. Allen West claiming there are upwards of 78 to 81 members of the Communist Party sitting in Congress within the Democratic Party.
> 
> the modern day Republican party is just bats#@t crazy. no ifs ands or buts about it.





Macfury said:


> McCarthy was correct, but I don't approve of his investigations.


To say that McCarthy was "correct" is like saying that there is someone in the Libertarian Party that donated to The United Way or worked at a local food bank. McCarthy claimed wide spread infiltration of various government and military groups by communists that were directly feeding info to Russia. This was never proven, so he was NOT correct. At least you don't approve of his hearings, which destroyed hundreds if not thousands of lives.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> this after Rep. Allen West claiming there are upwards of 78 to 81 members of the Communist Party sitting in Congress within the Democratic Party.
> 
> the modern day Republican party is just bats#@t crazy. no ifs ands or buts about it.





groovetube said:


> The fear card works. Communists! Muslims! OMG!
> 
> Beware! The masses will run in fear over this sort of thing, that's why they do it.


All the more reason to get Mitt Romney to select a hard-line right wing social conservative th help him win the election, and then to root out this infestation that is a disease upon American family values. Think of the children!!!!!!!!!!! Oh the humanity.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> To say that McCarthy was "correct" is like saying that there is someone in the Libertarian Party that donated to The United Way or worked at a local food bank. McCarthy claimed wide spread infiltration of various government and military groups by communists that were directly feeding info to Russia. This was never proven, so he was NOT correct. At least you don't approve of his hearings, which destroyed hundreds if not thousands of lives.


Correct in that there were Communist sympathizers working in government positions. I have looked at some historical research that indicates a few of the people on one of his lists were actually involved in espionage activities. He should have targeted only those, since espionage is illegal.


----------



## groovetube

he might as well have been correct in that there are corrupt politicians in office too.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> he might as well have been correct in that there are corrupt politicians in office too.


It does seem that 95% of our politicians do indeed give the rest a bad name. Of course I may be guilty of understating the problem.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> All the more reason to get Mitt Romney to select a hard-line right wing social conservative th help him win the election, and then to root out this infestation that is a disease upon American family values. Think of the children!!!!!!!!!!! Oh the humanity.


Why Dr. G., you're sounding like--YOURSELF, whenever you hear about tax cuts. "Oh the poor!! Think of the children!!!"


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Correct in that there were Communist sympathizers working in government positions. I have looked at some historical research that indicates a few of the people on one of his lists were actually involved in espionage activities. He should have targeted only those, since espionage is illegal.


Interesting, since he never did produce the infamous lists with the names of anyone. Granted, they did compile lists of names at the HUAC hearings, but this was mainly hearsay evidence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why Dr. G., you're sounding like--YOURSELF, whenever you hear about tax cuts. "Oh the poor!! Think of the children!!!"


No, I am coming over to your way of thinking. Let the children fend for themselves economically, but think of their values first and foremost. Save them from the corrupting forces of non-traditional American values. Then, if their parents are able to feed, clothe, shelter them properly, all the better. As it is written, "For what shall it profit a child, if he shall be fed properly, and lose his or her own traditional values?"

So, I am with you, mon ami. Survival of the fittest ................ long live libertarianism and Social Darwinism.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting, since he never did produce the infamous lists with the names of anyone. Granted, they did compile lists of names at the HUAC hearings, but this was mainly hearsay evidence.


He referred to two lists, the parameters of which were understood. Eventual declassification of Soviet documents from the period were later examined by such historians as John Earl Haynes. That research indicates that at least 9 of the people on both these lists were involved in supplying information to the Soviets.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He referred to two lists, the parameters of which were understood. Eventual declassification of Soviet documents from the period were later examined by such historians as John Earl Haynes. That research indicates that at least 9 of the people on both these lists were involved in supplying information to the Soviets.


Yes, McCarthy used the Lee lists, which were later discredited by the reports of the Tydings Committee in the Senate. His numbers kept changing, but I will admit that the facts underlying the Alger Hiss situation and the confession of Soviet spy Klaus Fuchs made just the mention of names of a list damning. His browbeating tactics destroyed the personal reputations and careers of countless people who were not involved in the "infiltration" of the US government, or any other political organization. In my opinion, his end NEVER justified the means he used.

Why not agree to disagree on the issue of Joe McCarthy and get back to the current needs of the American political system -- getting rid of the welfare-state socialism that is helping millions of American citizens but tearing apart the fabric of traditional American values.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, McCarthy used the Lee lists, which were later discredited by the reports of the Tydings Committee in the Senate. His numbers kept changing, but I will admit that the facts underlying the Alger Hiss situation and the confession of Soviet spy Klaus Fuchs made just the mention of names of a list damning. His browbeating tactics destroyed the personal reputations and careers of countless people who were not involved in the "infiltration" of the US government, or any other political organization. In my opinion, his end NEVER justified the means he used.


Yes, that's what I said. Some of the people on the Lee list were unprosecuted spies. However, the hearings were not justified--the individuals on the lists should have been charged as spies or left alone.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, that's what I said. Some of the people on the Lee list were unprosecuted spies. However, the hearings were not justified--the individuals on the lists should have been charged as spies or left alone.


Well, we agree on your concluding comment, Macfury. Charge someone with a crime under the law, or don't damn someone with an innuendo that destroys their life.

Paix, mon ami.

On a more modern note, who do you think that MR will name as his VP?


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

A conspiracy theory in the making????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> On a more modern note, who do you think that MR will name as his VP?


I still believe it will be Rubio. The "test marketing" of Condaleeza Rice did not gain widespread support.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I still believe it will be Rubio. The "test marketing" of Condaleeza Rice did not gain widespread support.


I will say Portman from Ohio ................. and NYC Mayor Bloomberg as the really wildcard, out there, mavrick speculation. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> la-na-tt-romneys-secrets-20120718-001/600


Ridiculous stuff. Romney is not even the official Republican candidate. At least wait until the convention.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I will say Portman from Ohio ................. and NYC Mayor Bloomberg as the really wildcard, out there, mavrick speculation. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Romney promised a conservative candidate--Bloomberg is barely a Republican, let alone a conservative.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ridiculous stuff. Romney is not even the official Republican candidate. At least wait until the convention.


Do you still think Ron Paul has a chance??? I have a feeling that Romney has this nomination "in the bag". We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

oops.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Do you still think Ron Paul has a chance??? I have a feeling that Romney has this nomination "in the bag". We shall see.


I don't believe that Ron Paul would even accept if the position were offered.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't believe that Ron Paul would even accept if the position were offered.


No, I meant Ron Paul for president. You felt that Romney did not have the nomination already. I agree that RP would not be asked to be VP, not with his continued insistence that RM reveal his past tax forms.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> oops.


----------



## Dr.G.

Washington (CNN) -- Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked the No.1 item on the president's congressional "to-do-list," refusing to allow a vote on a bill that would give tax breaks for companies that "insource" jobs to the U.S. from overseas while eliminating tax deductions for companies that move jobs abroad.


Good for the Republicans. The best thing that Mitt Romney has going for him is a weak US economy. Stop jobs from coming into the US and you keep the economy weak. A winning combination in my opinion. Next, they should push to put time limits on unemployment insurance, say a week. If you can't find a job in a week, too bad. Survival of the fittest should be the battle cry of the GOP. Social Darwinism shall have a new birth of freedom in the US upon election day.

"Before the tribunal of nature a man has no more right to life than a rattlesnake; he has no more right to liberty than any wild beast; his right to pursuit of happiness is nothing but a license to maintain the struggle for existence..."

—William Graham Sumner


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Washington (CNN) -- Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked the No.1 item on the president's congressional "to-do-list," refusing to allow a vote on a bill that would give tax breaks for companies that "insource" jobs to the U.S. from overseas while eliminating tax deductions for companies that move jobs abroad.


I agree with this. The bill would essentially force taxpayers to subsidize the wages of workers who were given "insourced" jobs. Good on the Republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I agree with this. The bill would essentially force taxpayers to subsidize the wages of workers who were given "insourced" jobs. Good on the Republicans.


Right on, Brother. Luckily, it is still a legal loophole to ship jobs off-shore and claim a tax break for these lost jobs. The GOP knows where their priorities lie ............ especially now that they passed a bill to prevent insider trading on Capitol Hill which could still exempt lawmakers' family members from new reporting requirements. So, a lawmaker cannot undertake insider trading but his/her spouse or child may now purchase these shares untouched by the greedy arm of the White House and Pres. Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – Republican House Speaker John Boehner called dangerous Thursday a request from members of his own party in Congress to investigate Muslim infiltration in the U.S. government.

Admitting he had not read a letter requesting the investigation, Boehner said "I think accusations like this being thrown around are pretty dangerous."

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, along with four other Republican members of Congress, formally requested in June that various federal agencies investigate whether the American government has been infiltrated by Muslim extremists. 
TRENDING: Boehner calls Bachmann accusations ‘pretty dangerous’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

This could spell trouble ............................. for Rep. Boehner. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother. Luckily, it is still a legal loophole to ship jobs off-shore and claim a tax break for these lost jobs.


A company should receive a tax deduction from income as a business cost, whether the cost of labour is on-shore or off.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The GOP knows where their priorities lie ............ especially now that they passed a bill to prevent insider trading on Capitol Hill which could still exempt lawmakers' family members from new reporting requirements. So, a lawmaker cannot undertake insider trading but his/her spouse or child may now purchase these shares untouched by the greedy arm of the White House and Pres. Obama.


Obama signs law banning congressional insider trading - World - CBC News



> President Barack Obama has signed legislation barring members of Congress, the president and thousands of federal workers from insider trading and profiting from nonpublic information learned on the job.
> 
> Obama signed the Stop Trading On Congressional Knowledge Act, or the STOCK Act, at an event Wednesday morning.
> 
> The bipartisan legislation prohibits thousands of individuals —such as the president, vice-president, members of congress, and executive branch workers,* and all their family members *— from buying and selling securities based on knowledge obtained through their jobs.
> 
> The legislation *was passed unanimously by the Senate* and breezed through the House of Representatives by a margin of 417 to 2. It is the most extensive effort to clamp down on congressional activities in years.
> 
> *Senator Joseph Lieberman, chief sponsor of the measure*, called it “the most significant congressional ethics legislation we’ve adopted in at least five years.”


----------



## Dr.G.

The STOCK Act requires that any trades of $1,000 or more made on or after July 3 have to be reported to the House and Senate within 45 days. But the House and Senate have two completely different interpretations of that rule.

In the Senate, the Ethics Committee released one page of guidelines last month ruling that members and their spouses and dependent children all have to file reports after they make stock or securities trades. But the House Ethics Committee disagreed.

Its 14-page memo notifies House members and aides covered by the law that their spouses and children aren't covered. The Office of Government Ethics, which oversees all federal executive branch employees, sided with the House, informing its employees that their spouses and children don't need to file these periodic reports.

Both of the lead sponsors of the Senate bill didn't realize the discrepancy until CNN brought it to their attention.
CNN exclusive: Congressional insider trading ban might not apply to families - CNN.com


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I agree with this. The bill would essentially force taxpayers to subsidize the wages of workers who were given "insourced" jobs. Good on the Republicans.


except the taxpayer will still be on the hook for more money when that employee who lost his job to sending it overseas needs to collect benefits.

Or job retraining programs, etc. Not all workers can find another job.

Unexpected consequences.


----------



## Macfury

From the same article:


> "It was not the intention of the House to differ with the Senate-passed bill with respect to application to spouses and dependent children. We did not believe at the time that we had differed from what the Senate had done," spokesman Doug Heye told CNN.
> 
> Heye said after learning from CNN about the difference, they are now looking at ways to fix it.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> From the same article:


If the past is an indicator, the intent was to appear to address the issue while doing nothing to restrict the representatives from taking advantage of their situation. 

The House Version will prevail and it will be business as usual on Capital Hill.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The people who are keen to remove Obama, wish to do so because he is incompetent.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The people who are keen to remove Obama, wish to do so because he is incompetent.


And those who want to keep him in office feel he is doing a good job, under the circumstances.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> The people who are keen to remove Obama, wish to do so because he is incompetent.


And some of those people believe the reason Obama is incompetent is because he's a communist...


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> And some of those people believe the reason Obama is incompetent is because he's a communist...


True .............. but as it was said during the days of Joe McCarthy, "Better dead than red". Still, I see some of Pres. Obama's policies as being more in the area of soft socialism rather than outright communism.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> And some of those people believe the reason Obama is incompetent is because he's a communist...


Possibly because he is a _competent_ communist--the U.S. economy is certainly performing more and more like old-style Russia.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Possibly because he is a _competent_ communist--the U.S. economy is certainly performing more and more like old-style Russia.


The Shrub carefully orchestrated the collapse of the US economy. With the paper shuffling aspect down the tubes and most manufacturing outsourced to China, that left only the Military Industrial Complex. End the wars and what's left is a total collapse. One that may take even longer than the 10 years that were needed to claw out of the last depression.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> The Shrub carefully orchestrated the collapse of the US economy. With the paper shuffling aspect down the tubes and most manufacturing outsourced to China, that left only the Military Industrial Complex. End the wars and what's left is a total collapse. One that may take even longer than the 10 years that were needed to claw out of the last depression.


surely Obama could have fixed the biggest financial crisis in US history in a couple years? :lmao:

I'm quite amazed at how many people really don't quite understand what happened.


----------



## CubaMark

Comedienne Sarah Silverman has a proposition for one of Mitt Romney's biggest (as yet unindicted) backers....





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






...apparently she's quite serious....


----------



## Macfury

This is pretty embarrassing stuff. I wonder what Lou Costello or Lucille Ball thought of the presidential candidates of their respective eras? Seriously, when people begin posting material from a lame ass comic as though it's news, it's a sign that political discourse has faltered considerably.


----------



## groovetube

They should be ashamed of themselves for funning a Mitt Romney supporter like that! Don't they know how serious a business this is?

This is no time for comedy!


----------



## CubaMark

...oh, woe is me! I have violated the sacrosanct laws of the thread (as proclaimed by MacFury), posting a non-"news" item to the "American Political Thread". Shall I be cast out, ne'er to post again? I await my fate...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ...oh, woe is me! I have violated the sacrosanct laws of the thread (as proclaimed by MacFury), posting a non-"news" item to the "American Political Thread". Shall I be cast out, ne'er to post again? I await my fate...


Nope. You're free to continue to post entertainment news from the ranks of the Hollywood cognoscenti whenever it engages you.


----------



## groovetube

There you go. He has spoketh.

Rest easy.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> There you go. He has spoketh.
> 
> Rest easy.


I shall, for he knoweth the way out of the wilderness.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Electoral College tie possible in Obama-Romney race - CNN.com

So, the House of Representatives could select Romney for president and the Senate could select Biden for VP. Strange .......... but possible.


----------



## Macfury

Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!


And I believe that Pres. Obama will get just over 300 electoral votes. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!


Screenshot taken. Someone's going to be eating major crow come November...


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Screenshot taken. Someone's going to be eating major crow come November...


We shall see. I predict a win by Pres. Obama, but admit that it might be close, possibly with only a dozen electoral votes between the two of them. So, my hope for an Obama victory with over 300 electoral votes may not happen, but I stand behind my hope, support and speculation that he WILL win a second terms. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## bryanc

Between the Jim Crow tactics, vote rigging, and the almost bottomless pit of money the Republicans have to spend on this campaign, it's certainly not going to be an easy win for Obama. That being said, I don't think many Americans are stoked about Romney either, so I'll be surprised if it's decisive either way.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!


Believe you made a similar prediction about McCain. Too lazy to look just now.

Either way it does not matter for the nations path is not determined by the puppets but rather the puppets master and these puppets dance to the same master.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Between the Jim Crow tactics, vote rigging, and the almost bottomless pit of money the Republicans have to spend on this campaign, it's certainly not going to be an easy win for Obama. That being said, I don't think many Americans are stoked about Romney either, so I'll be surprised if it's decisive either way.


A valid point, bryanc. While I would like to see a decisive win for Pres. Obama, I don't see it in the cards. Still, anything can happen between now and election day. Should Mitt Romney reveal his past 10+ years of tax returns and it showed that he gave most of his money to food banks, homeless shelters, shelters for abused women, programs that help children with literacy in school, and in all parts of the US and not just Utah, he has the election in his back pocket. He could come before the American people and say that he had nothing to hide, but he did not want to put the spotlight upon himself and his humanitarian spirit. Some hard-core Tea Party and Libertarian Party supporters would shun him for supporting programs for people who are in dire need, but he would sweep independents, Republicans, Democrats ............... heck, I might even vote for him if I found that on Tuedays he went to a local homeless shelter and read to children and on Thursdays he went to senior citizen centers and read to them as well. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Believe you made a similar prediction about McCain. Too lazy to look just now.


IIRC, MF didn't like McCain either - still too far left :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Between the Jim Crow tactics, vote rigging, and the almost bottomless pit of money the Republicans have to spend on this campaign, it's certainly not going to be an easy win for Obama. That being said, I don't think many Americans are stoked about Romney either, so I'll be surprised if it's decisive either way.


Vote rigging? Please.

The American people are not so much stoked about Romney as they are throwing Obama out of office.



eMacMan said:


> Believe you made a similar prediction about McCain. Too lazy to look just now.


Nope. I found McCain a tepid candidate. A sad sack of a man. I don't believe I had ever witnessed a candidate who appeared to have less desire to win the presidency.



Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, bryanc. While I would like to see a decisive win for Pres. Obama, I don't see it in the cards. Still, anything can happen between now and election day. Should Mitt Romney reveal his past 10+ years of tax returns and it showed that he gave most of his money to food banks, homeless shelters, shelters for abused women, programs that help children with literacy in school, and in all parts of the US and not just Utah, he has the election in his back pocket.


I don't understand why he should need to prove he had given his money away. 



CubaMark said:


> IIRC, MF didn't like McCain either - still too far left :yikes:


Exactly. To be more accurate--a statist. A believer in big government.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Vote rigging? Please.


How much evidence of vote rigging do you need before you begin to suspect that the system is being gamed?




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't understand why he should need to prove he had given his money away.
> .


He does not need to prove it, but he should reveal his tax records. This would clear up any doubts people have about him. It would be nice to think that he is generous with his money to basic areas of need, but his tax returns show his main contributions are to his church and to his foundation, which is linked to his church. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> How much evidence of vote rigging do you need before you begin to suspect that the system is being gamed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Oops. :yikes: My biggest concern is the close links of Diebold to the Republican party in the form of contributions to their various candidates at all levels.


----------



## Macfury

byranc, dead people have been voting at least since JFK won the 1960 presidential election. Blaming this on Republicans alone is ludicrous. Between both parties it likely cancels itself out.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> He does not need to prove it, but he should reveal his tax records. This would clear up any doubts people have about him. It would be nice to think that he is generous with his money to basic areas of need, but his tax returns show his main contributions are to his church and to his foundation, which is linked to his church. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I would want a president to be a good leader and beneficial to the economy. Charitable giving wouldn't even be a voting consideration for me.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would want a president to be a good leader and beneficial to the economy. Charitable giving wouldn't even be a voting consideration for me.


OK. What if he is hiding his fortune in the Cayman Island numbered accounts he currently holds? Would this be a deal breaker for you???


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> OK. What if he is hiding his fortune in the Cayman Island numbered accounts he currently holds? Would this be a deal breaker for you???


No. Why would it? Is it illegal to hold money in the Cayman Islands or a Swiss bank account?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No. Why would it? Is it illegal to hold money in the Cayman Islands or a Swiss bank account?


It is for American citizens who refuse to report this income and to pay tax on it -- that's the law.


----------



## bryanc

*Jimmy Crow is alive and well in the U.S.*

This week Doonesbury is featuring the return of Jimmy Crow


----------



## Macfury

So what you're saying is that after the first round of the purge, the legitimacy of the voter registry was significantly improved, since ineligible voters outnumbered eligible ones four to one?


----------



## bryanc

Well, it's obviously crucial to prevent the wrong people from being registered voters... because voter fraud is such a rampant problem


----------



## Dr.G.

Ron Paul: GOP party crasher or kingmaker? | HLNtv.com

An interesting article. I think that Ron Paul has earned the right to be heard at the Republican Convention. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I find the paternalistic attitude of the left rather astonishing. Those Jim Crow cartoons make the assumption that Democrat voters would be incapable of meeting simple voter ID requirements in significantly large numbers.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I find the paternalistic attitude of the left rather astonishing. Those Jim Crow cartoons make the assumption that Democrat voters would be incapable of meeting simple voter ID requirements in significantly large numbers.


There's nothing paternalistic about it. These are the facts. There are many people who currently don't have ID that meet the new voter requirements in the US, and these people are disproportionately Democratic voters. What's particularly vile about this GOP campaign is that it is not only an effort to prevent people from voting, it's being done in such a way that most people won't know it affects them until they try to vote and are turned away because their ID is no longer valid.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> There's nothing paternalistic about it. These are the facts. There are many people who currently don't have ID that meet the new voter requirements in the US, and these people are disproportionately Democratic voters.


Why the perception that Democrat voters would not have ID while Republican voters would? Is there something inherent about being a Democrat that makes one incapable of following directions, or acquiring an ID card?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Why the perception that Democrat voters would not have ID while Republican voters would? Is there something inherent about being a Democrat that makes one incapable of following directions, or acquiring an ID card?


The jurisdictions in which these GOP-led initiatives are focused are noted for having a lot of Democratic voters in poor demographics; hence the asymmetry.

I'll grant you that it's a desperation tactic that could backfire on them.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The jurisdictions in which these GOP-led initiatives are focused are noted for having a lot of Democratic voters in poor demographics; hence the asymmetry.
> 
> I'll grant you that it's a desperation tactic that could backfire on them.


The poor cannot follow simple instructions or register to vote? Again, this seems paternalistic to me.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> The poor cannot follow simple instructions or register to vote? Again, this seems paternalistic to me.


It's not a case of simple instructions. It's the cost (in both time and money) and difficulty of getting the ID, and the fact that these 'initiatives' are clearly part of a partisan campaign that has people up in arms.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> It's not a case of simple instructions. It's the cost (in both time and money) and difficulty of getting the ID, and the fact that these 'initiatives' are clearly part of a partisan campaign that has people up in arms.


All you've shown me is a case where a few people are finding it difficult to meet voting requirements because they have no other documents establishing their identities. It does not identify these people as Democrats. The fact that the NAACP has filed in Pennsylvania leads me to ask this same question again--are black people not able to get voter ID? I'll bet they are just as capable as people of any race to do this.


----------



## bryanc

I guess that's why Republican House Majority Leader Mike Turzai declared this measure "is going to allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." Are you really this naive about how politics works?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I guess that's why Republican House Majority Leader Mike Turzai declared this measure "is going to allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." Are you really this naive about how politics works?


Again, then Turzai agrees with Democrats who believe that Democrat voters will be incapable of producing whatever is required to apply for a voter ID card in such large numbers that it will swing the election. I call that paternalistic. Do Democrats not drive, buy licquor or get passports?

Humorous anecdote. The NAACP, who is going after the Pennsylvania law, required photo ID at its own convention:

NAACP Requires Photo I.D. to See Holder Speak in State Being Sued Over Voter ID - Katie Pavlich


----------



## groovetube

SOunds like someone needs an education with some real time in the states to me.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Humorous anecdote. The NAACP, who is going after the Pennsylvania law, required photo ID at its own convention:
> 
> NAACP Requires Photo I.D. to See Holder Speak in State Being Sued Over Voter ID - Katie Pavlich


the only thing humorous about that is that anyone could possibly compare checking press credentials to the inalienable right to vote.

what a silly article. amazing that they had the balls to actually publish such drivel.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> the only thing humorous about that is that anyone could possibly compare checking press credentials to the inalienable right to vote.
> 
> what a silly article. amazing that they had the balls to actually publish such drivel.


May the heavens have mercy on them for daring to make a joke about voter I.D. in general public.

Besides, what if some of the media happened to be Democrats? They would find a large contingent of their numbers excluded from the event!


----------



## i-rui

so it was a "joke"?

sorry to see what passes as humour on conservative websites. i'd tell them not to quit their day job, but considering their day job is spreading misinformation and BS, quitting might be for the best.

unless you were implying that all conservative websites are a joke, in which case i agree, but not in the "haha" kind of joke, more of the "sad and pathetic" kind of joke.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> sorry to see what passes as humour on conservative websites. i'd tell them not to quit their day job, but considering their day job is spreading misinformation and BS, quitting might be for the best.


So conservative web sites spread "misinformation and BS" and liberal web sites spread... what?


----------



## i-rui

sugar & spice and everything nice. 

i'm sure a few might post questionable stuff. if i ever saw one post an article as poor as the townhall.com one you posted above i would certainly not defend them. that kind of "journalism" is inexcusable.


----------



## groovetube

Romney wraps up gaffe-prone tour with swipe at Russia - The Globe and Mail

It's almost funny. Disaster in shoe leather is what I'm thinking.

I bet there's far more entertainment to come.


----------



## Dr.G.

Harry Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

Romney should be the Tea Party's dream candidate, in that they don't want to pay more, if any, additional taxes. What better way to achieve this goal than to pay no taxes .................. and doing it with legal loopholes and shady off-shore accounts to hide those funds that can't be legally protected from all taxation.

Now, if Ron Paul would only stop saying that it would be better for Romney to come clean and just release his tax returns, this whole matter would just fade away.


----------



## Dr.G.

TRENDING: Romney lands Clint Eastwood endorsement – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Well, this puts Romney over the top. Same as having John Wayne endorse Nixon back in 1968. Bye bye Pres. Obama. Sad to see you go. 

Actually, a half time during the last Super Bowl, I thought that he would come over to the dark side. C'est la vie.

Were politics buried inside Eastwood’s ‘Halftime’ commercial? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez and South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley - three women rumored to be under consideration as Mitt Romney's running mate - will have high profile speaking roles at the Republican National Convention, organizers will announce Monday.

In addition, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Arizona Sen. John McCain and Florida Gov. Rick Scott will also have prime time speaking roles at the four day event that begins August 27 in Tampa, a GOP official confirms.

Names that will not be announced in the first roll out of convention speakers: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, Ohio Sen. Rob Portman, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan. Romney is rumored to be looking at these five men – specifically Pawlenty and Portman – to join him on the GOP ticket.

The Romney campaign has not said when it will name a vice presidential running mate, but speculation is that it won't happen until after the Olympics end next Sunday. And several other people, in addition to the five named above, are said to be under consideration in this very secretive process."

With convention speakers named, Romney’s VP list appears to narrow – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Well, my money was on Portman, and it looks like he is still in the running. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Harry Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'


Reid should be ashamed of himself. It shows how frightened the Democrats are of a Romney win. Allegations like this require more than just aspersions cast by an unnamed source providing no evidence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Reid should be ashamed of himself. It shows how frightened the Democrats are of a Romney win. Allegations like this require more than just aspersions cast by an unnamed source providing no evidence.


I too do not like unnamed persons who come forward, but Romney should do the right thing and present his taxes to end this talk and sail into the White House. Sadly, these days, one always thinks the worse of politicians, be it earned scorn or just the stereotype of the politician.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Allegations like this require more than just aspersions cast by an unnamed source providing no evidence.


you mean like the whole "birther" nonsense?

edit - or this new incarnation of there being some kind of conspiracy over his grades? (see below).


----------



## Macfury

I believe President Obama should set a good example and release his college records to show Mr. Romney that there is nothing to fear.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe President Obama should set a good example and release his college records to show Mr. Romney that there is nothing to fear.


Good idea. Open candidates might breed open politicians which might result in open government. 

Now that Pres. Obama has produced his birth certificate, what exactly is the fuss over his college transcripts? To be honest, I don't follow FOX News, and they would be the main source of such "concerns". Still, that would put Romney on the spot to produce his tax returns.


----------



## groovetube

I'd be more interested in Romney's tax returns than Obama's college marks.

There comes a point where laughter happens.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I'd be more interested in Romney's tax returns than Obama's college marks.
> 
> There comes a point where laughter happens.


Not in this case, gt. Pres. Obama graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School in 1991. That is no easy task, especially from Harvard Law. How do we know what courses he took to get these outstanding grades? 

In that cum laude means "with honor", magna cum laude means "with great honor" and summa cum laude means "with highest honor", how come the President of the United States did NOT graduate with the "highest honor"?????

I graduated "cum laude" for my two bachelor degrees, "magna cum laude" for my master's degree and "summa cum laude" for my Ph.D., and I can show any and all my transcripts with pride ........................ so why can't Pres. Obama do the same?????


----------



## Dr.G.

Cayman Islands planned tax worries expats about tax haven - Business - CBC News

Mitt Romney might be forced to shift his Cayman Island numbered account to a numbered Swiss account. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Cayman Islands planned tax worries expats about tax haven - Business - CBC News
> 
> Mitt Romney might be forced to shift his Cayman Island numbered account to a numbered Swiss account. We shall see.


Nope Swiss banks are now refusing to open accounts from anyone with any sort of ties to the US.

Interestingly the US does not tax the interest on Non Resident Alien accounts held in US Banks nor will they divulge that account information to the Aliens home nation. Even though FATCA demands that same information from all foreign banks.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Nope Swiss banks are now refusing to open accounts from anyone with any sort of ties to the US.
> 
> Interestingly the US does not tax the interest on Non Resident Alien accounts held in US Banks nor will they divulge that account information to the Aliens home nation. Even though FATCA demands that same information from all foreign banks.


True .............. however, in Romney's case, he goes by the name of Milt Romney from Mexico ................ very convenient, n'est ce pas?

Still, where are Pres. Obama's transcripts? If they focus upon this point, it might distract people from what the non-partisan Tax Policy Institute said. The TPI claims Romney's tax proposals are likely to result in a net tax increase of $2,000 for middle-class wage earners while cutting hundreds of thousands of dollars from the tax bills of the country's most wealthy. Sounds like Robin Hood in reverse ............ as in "Romney Hood". 

Still, bring on those transcripts ............................


----------



## MacDoc

> Sounds like Robin Hood in reverse ............ as in "Romney Hood".


very clever - like it :clap:


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> very clever - like it :clap:


Oh, how you will all laugh when "Romney Hood" wins the presidency this fall!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Oh, how you will all laugh when "Romney Hood" wins the presidency this fall!


Right on, brother. Then the poor shall get what they deserve and the rich shall inherit the earth, as it was meant to be. Paix, mon ami. Excelsior!!!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Oh, how you will all laugh when "Romney Hood" wins the presidency this fall!


_We're gonna have to start a coast-to-coast ehMac drive to collect crows for the fall buffet....
_


----------



## groovetube

gaffe-master and tax the hell out of the middle class while he protects the rich guy is going to have to fundraise the crap outta this one to get it.

Of course limiting voters time to vote may be the sort of strategies he is employing now from what I heard. (though he tried to pin that one on Obama, which speaks volumes...)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _We're gonna have to start a coast-to-coast ehMac drive to collect crows for the fall buffet....
> _


Say what you want, CM, but Romney will bury his tax forms so deeply in numbered accounts that even his accountants at the firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe won't know where to look. And then, with Pres. Obama not being forthcoming with his college records and transcripts, he is gone for good.

Then, we shall see a return of the good times for those in the top 1% ............. and may the rest of you surfice on our crumbs.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> gaffe-master and tax the hell out of the middle class while he protects the rich guy is going to have to fundraise the crap outta this one to get it.
> 
> Of course limiting voters time to vote may be the sort of strategies he is employing now from what I heard. (though he tried to pin that one on Obama, which speaks volumes...)


Hey, if you can't vote quickly then don't vote at all. How difficult is it to select Romney ..................... it's a simple name to remember .............. certainly not like Obama .............. when one has to wonder where he was born, where he went to public school, what his religion might be ..................... and WHERE are his university transcripts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Na Na Na Na Hey Hey Hey Goodbye Original - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

After being labeled "Romney Hood" - Robin Hood in reverse - by the president Monday, presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney fired back with his own wordplay Tuesday, calling President Barack Obama's jab a bunch of "Obamaloney." Right on, Mitt!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell it like it is ............... just keep the focus off of yourself and your own finances.


----------



## groovetube

Obamaloney.

Brilliant.


----------



## Macfury

I am stunned at the ineffectiveness of the Obama campaign at this point--a ragtag, scattergun effort. Thankfully, the only audience who is interested is committed Democrat voters.

I believe Thursday may be the day that Romney chooses his Veep.


----------



## groovetube

the same voters that put him into office last time! Good stuff.

Funny observation though after Romney's incredible gaffe filled extravaganza overseas.


----------



## groovetube

and the hits keep on coming: In Slip, Romney Refers to 'Sheik Temple' Tragedy - NYTimes.com

At this rate he'll at least have made Bush junior look relatively gaffe free.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I am stunned at the ineffectiveness of the Obama campaign at this point--a ragtag, scattergun effort. Thankfully, the only audience who is interested is committed Democrat voters.
> 
> I believe Thursday may be the day that Romney chooses his Veep.


Add to this an albatross called Biden around the neck of Pres. Obama and it spells VICTORY for Romney in November .................. so long as Romney is smart and does not pull a Sarah Palin-like miscue and selects someone who overshadows him .......... and then tries to upstage him by providing ALL of his tax returns. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> and the hits keep on coming: In Slip, Romney Refers to 'Sheik Temple' Tragedy - NYTimes.com
> 
> At this rate he'll at least have made Bush junior look relatively gaffe free.


Hey, cut him some slack. He had a long day ............ and his round of golf at the Glen Oaks Country Club raised a great amount of money but that is NOT an easy course to complete the full 18 holes.

"After the speech, at the Glen Oaks Country Club, a Romney spokesman, Rick Gorka, was asked about the slip.

“He misspoke,” Mr. Gorka said. “It was the end of the day.” "


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, cut him some slack. He had a long day ............ and his round of golf at the Glen Oaks Country Club raised a great amount of money but that is NOT an easy course to complete the full 18 holes.
> 
> "After the speech, at the Glen Oaks Country Club, a Romney spokesman, Rick Gorka, was asked about the slip.
> 
> “He misspoke,” Mr. Gorka said. “It was the end of the day.” "


In playing golf, however, nobody can touch President Obama in the sheer number of rounds enjoyed during a presidential term:

Golf Courses of the Obama Administration


----------



## groovetube

somewhere in 'merica: Man mistakes picture of Mitt Romney for girlfriend's lover: Police report | Weird | News | Toronto Sun

weeee.


----------



## groovetube

It does take some real skill and class to be able to play that many rounds of golf, -and- get the name of the group that just suffered a massacre correct.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It does take some real skill and class to be able to play that many rounds of golf, -and- get the name of the group that just suffered a massacre correct.


Well, he was tired, had just raised about five million dollars from his golf group, and did not have a single birdie the whole round. While it was a tragic loss of life, he needs to focus upon the big picture -- getting elected as president. Then, people like you can complain all you want since your voice shall not be heard. 1% tops 99% in the game of high stakes politics.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he was tired, had just raised about five million dollars from his golf group, and did not have a single birdie the whole round. While it was a tragic loss of life, he needs to focus upon the big picture -- getting elected as president. Then, people like you can complain all you want since your voice shall not be heard. 1% tops 99% in the game of high stakes politics.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


My voice will not be heard in American politics as a matter of course. However, were I an America, I would not have seen more than one or two occasions in which President Obama would have acted in my interests. Romney could do better than that, even through blind luck.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My voice will not be heard in American politics as a matter of course. However, were I an America, I would not have seen more than one or two occasions in which President Obama would have acted in my interests. Romney could do better than that, even through blind luck.


Macfury, your voice is that of Ron Paul, and, sadly, it does not look like he will be heard at the convention. We shall see. I don't agree with some of his politics, but he is an honest politician and says what he believes in, just like you do here in ehMacLand. While we don't agree on certain things, I see you as an honest and open person as well.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

(Tom the Dancing Bug)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> (Tom the Dancing Bug)


Obviously a fake, CM. Mitt Romney would only have to use his number, as in the number of his Cayman Island account. So, get with the program and prepare for a grand celebration when President Mitt Romney ushers in a return of the "good times" for some in America. "Happy days are here again ..........". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Guess my speculation might be wrong. We shall see.


Denver (CNN) – Ohio Sen. Rob Portman threw cold water on the idea of becoming Mitt Romney's running mate on Wednesday, saying he thinks he'll "end up staying" in the Senate.

"I just got elected two years ago. I think that's where I'm going to end up staying," Portman said when asked his thoughts about possibly leaving the Senate and becoming vice president.


----------



## SINC

New polls put Obama ahead, but history shows summer polls are rarely meaningful


----------



## groovetube

Well there's always Jeb. Just think, should anything unfortunate happen to Romney, we'll be right back to where we were!

Good ol Jeb can finish what his brother started in regards to the economy.


----------



## MacDoc

American's waking up

Mitt Romney slumps in new U.S. poll - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well there's always Jeb. Just think, should anything unfortunate happen to Romney, we'll be right back to where we were!
> 
> Good ol Jeb can finish what his brother started in regards to the economy.


True ............. let the good times roll once again for the 1%. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> American's waking up
> 
> Mitt Romney slumps in new U.S. poll - The Globe and Mail


It has been written that "the last shall be first". America shall wake up and sweep Mitt Romney and the Tea Party-supported Republicans into a glorious victory comes Nov. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> It has been written that "the last shall be first". America shall wake up and sweep Mitt Romney and the Tea Party-supported Republicans into a glorious victory comes Nov. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


they'll show those commies who think making the rich pay taxes, and this hairbrained idea that they could afford healthcare for the unwashed masses will be zapped forever more.

They can return to more press releases of welfare abuse, and the return of corporate welfare into it's rightful place in credibility.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> they'll show those commies who think making the rich pay taxes, and this hairbrained idea that they could afford healthcare for the unwashed masses will be zapped forever more.
> 
> They can return to more press releases of welfare abuse, and the return of corporate welfare into it's rightful place in credibility.


Right on, brother gt. Power to the people ................. the rich people. :clap:


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, brother gt. Power to the people ................. the rich people. :clap:


Jus saw a war of 1812 commercial from the government of Canada.

It's a good thing to spend 20 some odd million on such an important event, and to make up for it by cutting other such frivolities such as environmental oversights.


----------



## Macfury

Picking a single poll a this point makes little sense. The latest rasmussen shows Romney ahead by 4%. His choice of veep will significantly affect his numbers.

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Picking a single poll a this point makes little sense. The latest rasmussen shows Romney ahead by 4%. His choice of veep will significantly affect his numbers.
> 
> Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™


I agree. If Romney picks the right VP, he sails on to victory in November.

Still, Ron Paul will be the only obstacle should he choose to run as a third-party candidate. This is why the Republicans should let him speak at the convention. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

Obfuscation and slander is an all-too common and sad part of politics - but the U.S. has made it into a true art form.

_Now we have this:_

*Mitt Romney is a blatant liar and he is running for president of the United States.*



> Mitt Romney and his campaign have completely fabricated a claim that the Obama campaign is trying to restrict military voting in Ohio. In fact, the opposite is true: the Obama campaign filed a lawsuit to make sure every Ohioan, including military members and their families, has early voting rights over the last weekend prior to the election. The case filed with the court could not be clearer on this point.
> 
> The real story of what is happening in the Buckeye State is that Mitt Romney supports the Republican effort to stop people from voting by restricting their access to the polls.
> 
> In 2008, more than 93,000 Ohioans utilized early voting in the three days before the election. In complete disregard of the will of Ohio voters expressed last year through the referendum process, the Republican legislature is attempting to remove from the vast majority of voters — *including veterans of our armed services* — the early voting rights they enjoyed in 2008. This latest Republican attack on rights of voters is shameful — and so is Mitt Romney’s endorsement of it.


(Eclectablog.com)

Here's Romney's ("I endorsed this message") baldfaced lie...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Obfuscation and slander is an all-too common and sad part of politics - but the U.S. has made it into a true art form.
> 
> _Now we have this:_
> 
> *Mitt Romney is a blatant liar and he is running for president of the United States.*
> 
> 
> 
> (Eclectablog.com)


Well, as Mark Twain once said, there are "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" ............ and so long as Mitt Romney gets the necessary votes in November, he can lie all he wants. Once he assumes the Office of the Presidency, those who opposed him will think twice to open up their mouths about what he said or did in the past. 

Unless the American voter sees his pants on fire, he will be able to coast into the White House. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

_And here's the Obama campaign's (surprisingly restrained) response:_





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _And here's the Obama campaign's (surprisingly restrained) response:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Hey, I like a flexible candidate ................ be it on welfare or the truth. So long as the "half truths" help the 1%, the rest of us will gain by the trickle down from their gains. So, I say, bring on flexibility ................ even at the expense of the truth.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Obfuscation and slander is an all-too common and sad part of politics - but the U.S. has made it into a true art form.
> 
> _Now we have this:_
> 
> *Mitt Romney is a blatant liar and he is running for president of the United States.*
> 
> (Eclectablog.com)


I read the lawsuit. Essentially, the military in Ohio has the right to vote three days earlier than the rest of the population, due to mail delays. The current law reduced early voting to one day, for everyone except the military. The Democrat party feels this will kill some Obama votes:



> "Plaintiff OBAMA FOR AMERICA is the principal campaign committee of President Barack Obama as he seeks re-election as President of the United States. *Nearly 550,000 Ohio citizens voted for President Obama in the March 2012 Democratic Primary. Many of these voters will elect to cast their ballots early for the general election, but will be unable to do so in the three days prior to Election Da*y as a result of HB 224 and SB 295."


In their zeal to extend voting opportunities for Democrats, they are attempting to remove the distinction between military voters and non-military voters. This is their error and the reason why the Democrats are taking such heat for this. If you extend voting for all Ohioans, the military voter must still be given an additional three days to vote, to equalize outcome. 

That is not the intention of the current lawsuit.


----------



## CubaMark

Right.... now, how about a comment or two on Romney's blatant lies? You know, _staying on topic_?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Right.... now, how about a comment or two on Romney's blatant lies? You know, _staying on topic_?


Romney is essentially correct. The lawsuit attempts to remove the voting advantage the military has always enjoyed over non-military voters in Ohio.


----------



## CubaMark

Careful, there, MF - you'll put your back out with all that squirming...

Here's Romney's weaselly attempt at slander:










He is right only in that the change would remove the 'advantage' that military personnel have, that of voting a few days prior to 'common' citizens. But in no way is he 'disenfranchising' them, which is the impression the ad gives.

Your defence of Romney's position is curious.


----------



## groovetube

nice turnaround indeed. I've seen a few republican supporters really squirming over this one. Nice to see.

But the real truth is, Romney bald faced lied about the issue, and one has to wonder why the voting was restricted in the first place.

I think the huge lie and the voter restrictions is the bigger story here, sorry.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Careful, there, MF - you'll put your back out with all that squirming...
> 
> Here's Romney's weaselly attempt at slander:
> 
> http://eclectablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/RomneyMilitaryLie.png
> 
> He is right only in that the change would remove the 'advantage' that military personnel have, that of voting a few days prior to 'common' citizens. But in no way is he 'disenfranchising' them, which is the impression the ad gives.
> 
> Your defence of Romney's position is curious.


I would agree that they are not being dienfranchised. However, as far as I can tell, the intent of the lawsuit is to increase votes for Obama, not to make voting fairer.


----------



## groovetube

It's been shown quite clearly that is simply not the case. One needs to look at the full story to see this though.

It's an interesting one. One has to wonder why, Romney would go on record with such a bald faced lie.

Not good.


----------



## groovetube

New Romney Campaign Distortion: Falsely Claims Obama 'Promised Today To Bail Out Every Industry' | ThinkProgress

Apparently there's lots more distorted talking points for Romney admirers to quote multiple times coming up. It should be quite a treat for anyone trying to wade through the barrage of posts and noise who are trying make out what was actually said.

It's kinda too bad.

However, it -is- a well worn tactic to heat any discussion, just repeat often enough to annoy anyone trying have a real discussion.

best not to fall for it.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> New Romney Campaign Distortion: Falsely Claims Obama 'Promised Today To Bail Out Every Industry' | ThinkProgress
> 
> Apparently there's lots more distorted talking points for Romney admirers to quote multiple times coming up. It should be quite a treat for anyone trying to wade through the barrage of posts and noise who are trying make out what was actually said.
> 
> It's kinda too bad.
> 
> However, it -is- a well worn tactic to heat any discussion, just repeat often enough to annoy anyone trying have a real discussion.
> 
> best not to fall for it.


Mitt Romney is merely utilizing Orwell's invented language, Newspeak, which tends to satirize hypocrisy and evasion by the state. At least he is literate enough to have read "1984" ............... all Pres. Obama has done is written a couple of books.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Mitt Romney is merely utilizing Orwell's invented language, Newspeak, which tends to satirize hypocrisy and evasion by the state. At least he is literate enough to have read "1984" ............... all Pres. Obama has done is written a couple of books.


:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> ...... all Pres. Obama has done is written a couple of books.


We'll give him credit, at least, for signing his name to the work of Bill Ayers.

Mitt Romney has written and co-written other books--but at least he credits the other writers.


----------



## groovetube

pretty serious allegations I'd say. Looks like you stung a little too hard Dr. G, to bring about the paranoia of Bill Ayers.

Though this isn't likely at all, I'd like to see proof of the plagiarism..


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> pretty serious allegations I'd say. Looks like you stung a little too hard Dr. G, to bring about the paranoia of Bill Ayers.
> 
> Though this isn't likely at all, I'd like to see proof of the plagiarism..


AS Mark Twain once said, "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – Donald Trump is set to get a 'unique' gig at the Republican National Convention in late August, an aide to the real estate titan confirmed on Friday. 

"Mr. Trump's role will occur at the Tampa Bay Times Forum (site of the convention), though the specifics of the role are not being released at this time. The role, like Mr. Trump, is unique and will be memorable for all those in attendance at the convention and those watching around the country. Stay tuned," Executive Vice President and Special Counsel Michael Cohen told CNN.


I still can't believe that the Republican Party may disrespect Rep. Ron Paul, a Republican Congressman from TX, at the convention. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) – Mitt Romney's campaign announced Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin as the Republican candidate's running mate as he begins a four-day, four-state bus tour. Romney and Ryan will appear together at an event in Norfolk, Virginia, at 9 a.m. ET.


I was surprised by this pick, but Romney knows best.


----------



## i-rui

he of the farcical budget plan.

sheesh.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> he of the farcical budget plan.
> 
> sheesh.


Ryan, who chairs the House Budget Committee, will not overshadow Romney and will help to recapture the fiscal conservatives who were abandoned by Bush. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Agenda Project: Granny Off the Cliff - YouTube

Here comes the temper of the attack ads that will face Paul Ryan. I can only imagine what the conservative Super Pacs will have in store for Pres. Obama and VP Biden. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Oops ................

Mitt Romney could have said almost anything to a buoyant crowd ready to welcome his new running mate and it would have been OK. But flubbing Paul Ryan's big intro evoked a moment of "Say what?" uncertainty. 

About 1,000 people had queued in long lines starting before daylight to be the first to hail the Wisconsin congressman who became a conservative hero for championing deep spending cuts.

People beamed, leaning forward, standing on tiptoes, craning their necks as Romney set up the most anticipated debut of his candidacy. 

Then Romney says, "... the next president of the United States, Paul Ryan." 

Romney flubs running mate Ryan's introduction - World - CBC News


----------



## BigDL

Paul Ryan, apparently, a darling of the Tea Party and an ensconced Washington insider. How paradoxical is that?


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> Paul Ryan, apparently, a darling of the Tea Party and an ensconced Washington insider. How paradoxical is that?


True .............. but as a fiscal conservative, he reclaims this base for the Republican Party.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) - "Sarah Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, had little to say to her 2012 counterpart in a statement released nearly twelve hours after Mitt Romney made his running mate announcement. 

"Congratulations to Mitt Romney on his choice of Congressman Paul Ryan as his running mate," Palin wrote in a statement, which mentioned Romney's name only four times and Ryan's name only three out of over 1,100 words. The statement was posted on her Facebook page."


Sounds a bit lukewarm to me.


----------



## groovetube

even she knew Obama would be tough to beat this time around, so she's waiting for 2016.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> even she knew Obama would be tough to beat this time around, so she's waiting for 2016.


I think that she is hurt that people are blaming her selection of VP for the loss in 2008, and how this selection is so much better. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

CNN thinks the VP choice is a bad one:




> Milwaukee (CNN) -- While there is a short-term and potential electoral edge in Mitt Romney's selection of Paul Ryan as his running mate, it is politically risky and violates what should be the guiding principle in choosing a vice-presidential nominee: "First, do no harm." In the end, the choice may do more harm than good.


Ryan pick will steer Romney campaign to treacherous waters - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> CNN thinks the VP choice is a bad one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan pick will steer Romney campaign to treacherous waters - CNN.com


Let us hope that CNN is correct. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

From Wienermobile driver to VP candidate ................ well, he has my vote and the votes of all other dachshund owners ........... which is the 5th most popular breed of dog in America.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## SINC

CNN has more dire news about running mate choice:

Paul Ryan's dangerous vision - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> CNN has more dire news about running mate choice:
> 
> Paul Ryan's dangerous vision - CNN.com


While there shall be others who disagree with Donna Brazile's views, I find her arguement compelling. If my mother were still alive and living in New York City, I think that she would be fearful of what will become of Medicare and Social Security should the Romney-Paul ticket win in November.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Paul Ryan — Randian Super-Hero of Individual Self-Reliance and Working Class Warrior against government debt, waste, and intrusiveness — whose actual life is a testament to the precise opposite values ................and now seeks to exploit what he himself helped create in order to deny to others the very benefits that were responsible for almost every opportunity and success he has had in his life, with the burden falling most harshly on those who need those benefits the most to have any remnant of fair opportunity. That’s the crux of the American elite: making massive mistakes and engaging in destructive behavior and then demanding that everyone — except them — bear the brunt of the consequences."

Paul Ryan - Salon.com

Well, maybe he and Romney make a perfect pair together??? We shall see.


----------



## i-rui

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama? - Forbes


----------



## Macfury

There were a host of pundits on the left warning Romney of the "danger" of choosing Ryan as veep. I suspect this was transference. They were afraid that Romney would do just that because it will put Obama on the defensive.

i-rui, Obama is a big spender of future dollars, committing his country to a grossly expensive health care plan, and massive deficits. Likewise, using the first stimulus program as a baseline, rather than a one-time cash injection skews the numbers ridiculously in Obama's favour.


----------



## CubaMark

Seriously, MF, you should take your act on the road... I'll need adult diapers to read any more of your stuff... :clap:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Seriously, MF, you should take your act on the road... I'll need adult diapers to read any more of your stuff... :clap:


Seriously, CM, why would I think you were not already wearing them?


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> Seriously, MF, you should take your act on the road... I'll need adult diapers to read any more of your stuff... :clap:


I think some conservatives are very uncomfortable with the fact that it's pretty clear conservative governments both here and in the US clearly are the big spenders.

A lot of furious backpedalling going on.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Paul Ryan — Randian Super-Hero of Individual Self-Reliance and Working Class Warrior against government debt, waste, and intrusiveness — whose actual life is a testament to the precise opposite values ................and now seeks to exploit what he himself helped create in order to deny to others the very benefits that were responsible for almost every opportunity and success he has had in his life, with the burden falling most harshly on those who need those benefits the most to have any remnant of fair opportunity. That’s the crux of the American elite: making massive mistakes and engaging in destructive behavior and then demanding that everyone — except them — bear the brunt of the consequences."
> 
> Paul Ryan - Salon.com
> 
> Well, maybe he and Romney make a perfect pair together??? We shall see.


The left is eager, it seems, to paint any sort of success as obscene, unless that success was fueled by government largesse.


----------



## groovetube

total nonsense.

More backpedalling. Does it ever cease?


Of course this (that was already posted^^) was ignored:

Paul Ryan — Randian Super-Hero of Individual Self-Reliance and Working Class Warrior against government debt, waste, and intrusiveness — whose actual life is a testament to the precise opposite values

ha ha ha. What was that about the left again? :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The left is eager, it seems, to paint any sort of success as obscene, unless that success was fueled by government largesse.





groovetube said:


> total nonsense.
> 
> More backpedalling. Does it ever cease?
> 
> 
> Of course this (that was already posted^^) was ignored:
> 
> Paul Ryan — Randian Super-Hero of Individual Self-Reliance and Working Class Warrior against government debt, waste, and intrusiveness — whose actual life is a testament to the precise opposite values
> 
> ha ha ha. What was that about the left again? :lmao:


Have to agree with gt, MF. Sadly, Ryan wants to slash the programs which helped him get to where he is now. Even Romney is trying to distance himself from the Ryan budget plan, saying that Congress had it's plan, and his campaign has it's budget plan which this team shall run on and campaign on .................... all the way to the White House. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, Ryan wants to slash the programs which helped him get to where he is now. .


Both Obama and Ryan both forwarded plans to reduce the cost of Medicare. The only difference between the two plans is that Obama enacted his Medicare costs already. Having done so himself, president Obama will find it difficult to attack Ryan's plan--which is of course, only Ryan's own proposal of 2010, contained in his _Path to Prosperity_ proposal—not that of Mitt Romney.


----------



## i-rui

one has to think that the appointing Ryan will (at the very least) lose Florida for Romney.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think so. Ryan points out that his mother is a Florida senior, and that the Medicare program will remain untouched for anyone older than 53. Again, however, Ryan's plan was his own--it is not clear that this will be Romney's Medicare plan.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I don't think so. Ryan points out that his mother is a Florida senior, and that the Medicare program will remain untouched for anyone older than 53. Again, however, Ryan's plan was his own--it is not clear that this will be Romney's Medicare plan.


Very unwise to take him at his word. He is a politician and his lips were moving, it is very likely he was lying. Again he is a politician so selling out his own mother would be a part of his nature.


----------



## Macfury

Why bother debating politics at all if you believe that all statements of politicians are lies? I take a dim view of government, but I don;t assume everyone in government is totally debased.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Why bother debating politics at all if you believe that all statements of politicians are lies? I take a dim view of government, but I don;t assume everyone in government is totally debased.


I believed Ronald Reagan would cut spending. I believed Richard Nixon had nothing to do with Watergate. By the time Gary Hart came along I no longer believed but was still royally pissed that his fling diverted attention from far more important issues. Had I believed Obama I would indeed have been sadly disappointed. Better to presume the worst and on very rare occasions be delighted to be proven wrong, than to take them at their word and be continually disappointed.


----------



## groovetube

why debate when things in reality don't support your hopes (dreams?)

It's important to call out the lies. Every citizen should be engaged. The only reason politicians lie is because they know most people wont debate politics, and don't care, so they get away with spouting just outrageous lies.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


>


I suppose you're referring to the idea of throwing billions of dollars into solar cell manufacturers and wind power back holes when it's clear that this fails even a basic cost-benefit analysis. Agreed.


----------



## groovetube

I'm sure if one adds up the many trillions and trillions of dollars spent, and the massive number of lives lost due to fighting wars to protect oil supplies, I bet that would fail a real cost-benefit analysis.

Except if you're the one getting your bank accounts fattened up with no real loss to you over it all.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


God bless America. :love2::love2::love2:


----------



## CubaMark

(FarLeftSide)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> (FarLeftSide)


:lmao::lmao::clap::lmao:

Bring back the "good old days" of Sarah Palin not being able to name one newspaper she reads, or being able to see Russia from her backyard (in all fairness, she said you could see Russia from Alaska).


----------



## Macfury

Those wacky farleftsiders are clearly afraid of this ticket. Good!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Those wacky farleftsiders are clearly afraid of this ticket. Good!


Right on, Brother Macfury. Watch those Dems run right over the cliff. Then, it will be 8 years of Romney, eight years of Ryan, and then ....................... well, we shall see. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Let's just start out with the good news about the first four years of Romney/Ryan.


----------



## groovetube

It astounds me that anyone could fall for the trickle down theory... -again-... :lmao::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Let's just start out with the good news about the first four years of Romney/Ryan.


No, let's think dynasty ................ longer than the reign of Queen Elizabeth II. Romney to Ryan to Paul (Rand, not his dad) to .................................. I'll be long gone by that time, so you will have to fill in the blanks.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It astounds me that anyone could fall for the trickle down theory... -again-... :lmao::lmao::clap:


Hey, those of us at the top feel good about this theory. Those of you at the bottom can only grumble and fight over the crumbs. That is Social Darwinism at its finest. :greedy:XX)

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Romney Adviser 'Embarrassed' He Doesn't Know When Romney Would Balance Budget, But Shouldn't Be | ThinkProgress

who knows, and who CARES! Everybody just go back to searching Paul Ryan shirtless.


----------



## Dr.G.

Romney: I’ve paid at least 13 percent tax rate in each of past 10 years - The Washington Post

Well, this should silence Pres. Obama on this issue. Now, where are his college transcripts???????????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Romney: I’ve paid at least 13 percent tax rate in each of past 10 years - The Washington Post
> 
> Well, this should silence Pres. Obama on this issue. Now, where are his college transcripts???????????


I believe the election will silence Obama--or at least remove him from his presidential pulpit.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe the election will silence Obama--or at least remove him from his presidential pulpit.


Right on, Brother Macfury. This election will mark a long reign of Republican presidents, much like Harding, to Coolidge to Hoover to .................. oops ........... that ended with the Depression. Still, if things do wrong for Romney, he can always blame Pres. Obama. Then, if things get even worse economically, he can tell everyone that he has a five year plan, just as he is doing right now. Then, if things get even worse, he can hand over the reins to his VP, Paul Ryan, who will have eight years to correct the mess that Pres. Obama inherited from Pres. Bush. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. This election will mark a long reign of Republican presidents, much like Harding, to Coolidge to Hoover to .................. oops ........... that ended with the Depression. Still, if things do wrong for Romney, he can always blame Pres. Obama. Then, if things get even worse economically, he can tell everyone that he has a five year plan, just as he is doing right now. Then, if things get even worse, he can hand over the reins to his VP, Paul Ryan, who will have eight years to correct the mess that Pres. Obama inherited from Pres. Bush. We shall see.


:clap:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. This election will mark a long reign of Republican presidents, much like Harding, to Coolidge to Hoover to .................. oops ........... that ended with the Depression. Still, if things do wrong for Romney, he can always blame Pres. Obama. Then, if things get even worse economically, he can tell everyone that he has a five year plan, just as he is doing right now. Then, if things get even worse, he can hand over the reins to his VP, Paul Ryan, who will have eight years to correct the mess that Pres. Obama inherited from Pres. Bush. We shall see.


I believe five years to correct the Obama economic disaster may be optimistic. However, Ronald Reagan turned the Carter economy around in just two years, so all things are possible.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe five years to correct the Obama economic disaster may be optimistic. However, Ronald Reagan turned the Carter economy around in just two years, so all things are possible.


True, but Romney is no Ronald Reagan. I think that it will take the Romney/Ryan presidency their full two-terms each to turn things around from the mess that Pres. Obama inherited from Pres. Bush. 

Still, remember the riches that were created in the Reagan years for many in the banking and stock market industry. This could be another era of great wealth creation for some .............. and the hopes that this will trickle down to the masses.

Se shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. This election will mark a long reign of Republican presidents, much like Harding, to Coolidge to Hoover to .................. oops ........... that ended with the Depression. Still, if things do wrong for Romney, he can always blame Pres. Obama. Then, if things get even worse economically, he can tell everyone that he has a five year plan, just as he is doing right now. Then, if things get even worse, he can hand over the reins to his VP, Paul Ryan, who will have eight years to correct the mess that Pres. Obama inherited from Pres. Bush. We shall see.





groovetube said:


> :clap:


Wow, gt, I did not see you as a supporter of the Romney/Ryan ticket along with Brother Macfury and myself ............. and any other right thinking person. Good for you. Welcome to the Dark Side.

Not many see that Pres. Obama was handed the keys to a burning car from Pres. Bush with the comment "She's all yours now". Still, Pres. Obama just made matters worse by attempting to help people and to help them to help themselves to make their lives better. The Romney/Paul presidency will hopefully be able to turn this around and focus upon helping to make the 1% folks lives a bit easier. Then, just as with any picnic, there shall be crumbs and left-overs for the rest of the people.

We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, but Romney is no Ronald Reagan. I think that it will take the Romney/Ryan presidency their full two-terms each to turn things around...


President Obama deep-sixed the U.S. economy in just four years, so I think it's incumbent on Romney to prove he can repair it in less time.


----------



## groovetube

oh I think everyone knows full well it was 'deep sixed' before Obama took office.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> President Obama deep-sixed the U.S. economy in just four years, so I think it's incumbent on Romney to prove he can repair it in less time.


Still, why quicken the process? Drag it out for 8 years, pass the situation on to Ryan for another 8 years, and then to some other Republican for another 8 years, and then on to .............................


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> oh I think everyone knows full well it was 'deep sixed' before Obama took office.


True, but why bring in facts and reality to muddy the waters. As the song says, "Blame it on President Obama ..........." Or, is that "the Bossa Nova"? Whatever, Pres. Obama is out and then the 1% Solution shall be in.

Eydie Gormé BLAME IT ON THE BOSSA NOVA. - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, but why bring in facts and reality to muddy the waters. As the song says, "Blame it on President Obama ..........." Or, is that "the Bossa Nova"? Whatever, Pres. Obama is out and then the 1% Solution shall be in.


To be charitable, I would blame the voters for belieivng in President Obama, rather than Obama himself.


----------



## groovetube

whether or not one liked Obama, or not, why on earth would anyone vote in the party that completely destroyed the economy so badly it's considered the worst financial crisis since the great depression?

Sucker for punishment? Or worse?

Unfortunately, the republicans haven't got a leg to stand on when it comes to good economic stewardship. All they'll have, are lies. 

I'd take mediocrity over sheer stupidity leading to a financial crash. Not a great choice.


----------



## groovetube

anyway, looks like the debate here has come down to this (again):


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> whether or not one liked Obama, or not, why on earth would anyone vote in the party that completely destroyed the economy so badly it's considered the worst financial crisis since the great depression?
> 
> Sucker for punishment? Or worse?
> 
> Unfortunately, the republicans haven't got a leg to stand on when it comes to good economic stewardship. All they'll have, are lies.
> 
> I'd take mediocrity over sheer stupidity leading to a financial crash. Not a great choice.


Right on, Brother gt. Vote Republican ............ vote the Right Way. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> To be charitable, I would blame the voters for belieivng in President Obama, rather than Obama himself.


No, blame Pres. Obama for getting Americans to believe in themselves and their ability to help themselves become a better country. Better to vote now for Romney/ Ryan and bring back Reaganonics and the trickle down version of Social Darwinism. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Thus, the 1% is able to amass great wealth, and they need to keep this wealth at the expense of the 99%. Simple math if you ask me.

All that stands in the way of a Romney/Ryan dynasty is the Electoral College.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> anyway, looks like the debate here has come down to this (again):


Be reasonable now, gt. Close your eyes to the vision of American that Pres. Obama helped us to see, and open you eyes to the reality of a Romney/Ryan presidency. Remember what Pres. Calvin Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, blame Pres. Obama for getting Americans to believe in themselves and their ability to help themselves....


...to Food Stamps?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> ...to Food Stamps?


Sad, but true. When Romney/Paul come to power, I foresee a day when this sort of help, along with health care and affordable housing, to be a thing of the past. Those who can't keep up along the journey to prosperity and a balanced budget best get out of the way.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sad, but true. When Romney/Paul come to power, I foresee a day when this sort of help, along with health care and affordable housing, to be a thing of the past.


Yes, the bitter medicine of full employment will rob people of these entitlements.


----------



## groovetube

ah, full employment. Hopefully Romney/Pau will give even more corporate tax cuts and promote full employment!

Hopefully that spills up here, because I have my eye on an audi A6.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ah, full employment. Hopefully Romney/Pau will give even more corporate tax cuts and promote full employment!
> 
> Hopefully that spills up here, because I have my eye on an audi A6.


Well, I am not sure if the outsourcing of jobs will head north, but if you incorporate, I am sure that you could get some assistance from the US government to outsource some US jobs this way ............. and you could pocket the profits. :greedy:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, the bitter medicine of full employment will rob people of these entitlements.


Correct. However, full employment can only be achieved if they do away with items such as the minimum wage, worker's compensation, employer-supported health benifits, defined retirement benifits, etc. Cut these all out, take away the provisions for not allowing children to be hired for certain jobs, throw out worker and environmental protection laws, and you have the recipe for full employment. And, while they are at dismantling government regulations, take away the chains that shackle free enterprise and return to the days when "the business of America is business".

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I am not sure if the outsourcing of jobs will head north, but if you incorporate, I am sure that you could get some assistance from the US government to outsource some US jobs this way ............. and you could pocket the profits. :greedy:


I was thinking more that the experiment is being done here with corp tax cuts. Now that the corps are massive cash hoarders, damn I want to get into the action much further!

Let them eat cake!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I was thinking more that the experiment is being done here with corp tax cuts. Now that the corps are massive cash hoarders, damn I want to get into the action much further!
> 
> Let them eat cake!


That's the attitude. You are closer to the Audi A6 than you think. Still, that could be car #2 .................. what will you want for your car #1? Think differently ......... think 1% ......................


----------



## groovetube

well I enjoy sailing a lot. If the gov could stop worrying about the natives and people getting MRIs quicker, then I'd be a little closer to that goal. They need to push this trickle down theory a little harder.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Correct. However, full employment can only be achieved if they do away with items such as the minimum wage, worker's compensation, employer-supported health benifits, defined retirement benifits, etc. Cut these all out, take away the provisions for not allowing children to be hired for certain jobs, throw out worker and environmental protection laws, and you have the recipe for full employment. And, while they are at dismantling government regulations, take away the chains that shackle free enterprise and return to the days when "the business of America is business".
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


When we eliminate unjust and ridiculous laws, yes, the dream can be achieved! Paix, mon ami!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> When we eliminate unjust and ridiculous laws, yes, the dream can be achieved! Paix, mon ami!


Right on, Brother Macfury. First to go, the absurd clean air and water acts from the Great Society. Then, dismantle all of FDR's remaining New Deal acts (social security, etc), and that's a start. I don't see the need for income or corporate taxes as well, so they could go. Amendments might be more difficult to take away, but that could be considered later on in the second Romney administration.

Would you believe that it is still against the law to float a cow in a hot air balloon over Central Park in New York City???? You can carry a horse, a dog, a pig and a cat in this one balloon, but not a cow. Absurd laws ..................


----------



## Macfury

I agree with dismantling much of FDR's blighted legacy. However, some degree of maintaining the commons is necessary.


----------



## i-rui

Ireland capitulated to all of the usual corporate demands in hope of boosting their economy, but were instead left with an economic mess.

The idea that a country can be be saved economically by catering to those ideas is a myth.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Ireland capitulated to all of the usual corporate demands in hope of boosting their economy, but were instead left with an economic mess.
> 
> The idea that a country can be be saved economically by catering to those ideas is a myth.


When in excess of 50% of the economy is government activity, we would hardly call it a free market.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> However, some degree of maintaining the commons is necessary.


Careful there, MacFury; it's a slippery slope. Once you allow governments to start legislating to protect the commons where does it stop? Surely well-armed individualists are better able to look after their own interests than any meddling government... why not let citizens look after the commons and keep government out of it?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Careful there, MacFury; it's a slippery slope. Once you allow governments to start legislating to protect the commons where does it stop? Surely well-armed individualists are better able to look after their own interests than any meddling government... why not let citizens look after the commons and keep government out of it?


Not to protect it--to help ensure that it is maintained until it safely in private hands.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I agree with dismantling much of FDR's blighted legacy. However, some degree of maintaining the commons is necessary.


Now, don't start back sliding on us now, Macfury. Those who can, will, those who can't won't ........... and they shall fall by the wayside. "To each according to his or her need", and obviously those with great wealth need more to maintain this great wealth. Simple math from the Reagan years.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Careful there, MacFury; it's a slippery slope. Once you allow governments to start legislating to protect the commons where does it stop? Surely well-armed individualists are better able to look after their own interests than any meddling government... why not let citizens look after the commons and keep government out of it?


I agree. Let people tend/fend for themselves and keep our tax dollars out of the pot.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not to protect it--to help ensure that it is maintained until it safely in private hands.


Why don't we just keep our hands off business and let businesses care for their own interests. At some point, so long as we keep buying their products and consuming their products, it will work out for the betterment of all. Until then, those with their hands on the reins of production will make better decisions as to what is best for us all.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> Ireland capitulated to all of the usual corporate demands in hope of boosting their economy, but were instead left with an economic mess.
> 
> The idea that a country can be be saved economically by catering to those ideas is a myth.


People like myths! Or so it seems.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> People like myths! Or so it seems.


Indeed... especially LiberTeaPublicans


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Indeed... especially LiberTeaPublicans


Gosh, that's really weak stuff for Fiore...

Who believes in bigger government, Obama or Romney? Obama wins!


----------



## groovetube

that's good MF. Keep pumping the talking points, never waver. Keep the message simple, and consistent. Perhaps someone will take it to heart.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Gosh, that's really weak stuff for Fiore...


Yep, Fiore is usually much better.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Who believes in bigger government, Obama or Romney? Obama wins!


Well, we can't answer that because Romney has never been president. We can however take note of the pattern of governmental bloat under Republican administrations over the past several decades and speculate that, as a Republican president, Romney would be even worse.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Well, we can't answer that because Romney has never been president. We can however take note of the pattern of governmental bloat under Republican administrations over the past several decades and speculate that, as a Republican president, Romney would be even worse.


We can point put that Obama beats all Republican presidents flat out.


----------



## i-rui

public sector employment growth is way down under Obama vs Bush.

In fact, most recessions are usually eased by public sector hiring....but not this one. Probably why it's dragging on.












> Note that a Republican was president after the 1981, 1990 and 2000 recessions. Public-sector austerity looks a lot better to conservatives when they’re out of power than when they’re in it.


Public-sector austerity in one graph - The Washington Post


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> public sector employment growth is way down under Obama vs Bush.


That number represents the entire public sector, including state and local governments.

However:



> The number of federal employees grew by 123,000, or 6.2%, under President Obama, according to the White House's Office of Management and Budget.


Did Obama really make government bigger? - Jan. 25, 2012

In the Obamaconomy, the states and local government are no longer able to support public sector hiring.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> In the Obamaconomy, the states and local government are no longer able to support public sector hiring.


states couldn't afford it under Bush either, but they still spent. The difference is the democrats in office weren't trying to delibrietly sabotage the economy.

and to your point about federal jobs under Obama :



> Much of the hiring increases came in the departments of homeland security, justice, veterans and defense.


hardly pillars of the "culture of entitlement" republicans are always going on & on about. in fact those are specifically hawkish ideals that most republicans would endorse.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> ...hardly pillars of the "culture of entitlement" republicans are always going on & on about. in fact those are specifically hawkish ideals that most republicans would endorse.


Many Republicans would _not_, nor would I.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Who believes in bigger government, Obama or Romney? Obama wins!





groovetube said:


> that's good MF. Keep pumping the talking points, never waver. Keep the message simple, and consistent. Perhaps someone will take it to heart.


Very true, Brother Macfury. Big government? Pres. Obama wants to outdo the New Deal and the Great Society combined. When he is done, there won't be a person with great wealth left in America (they will have all gone to tax havens). Then all that will be left will be "the tired, the poor, the huddled masses", yearning for more handouts.

gt, Macfury has to keep the "message simple" for the likes of you who won't or can't see the rationality underlying his points. As Pres. Harding once pledged, "We need to return to normalcy." (of course, there was no word "normalcy" when he made this statement, and he meant to say "normality", but why muddy the waters with facts). Thus, keep the message simple and millions will buy into it since it is far easier than to attempt a critical understanding of the intricate nature of macro-economics.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Many Republicans would _not_, nor would I.


8 years of the bush administration says you're dead wrong unfortunately.

Perhaps Ron Paul is your man. Unfortunately, for most republicans, he's not.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> 8 years of the bush administration says you're dead wrong unfortunately.
> 
> Perhaps Ron Paul is your man. Unfortunately, for most republicans, he's not.


"Too often we...enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
John F. Kennedy


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> "Too often we...enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
> John F. Kennedy


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

RomneYAN ................ coming to a White House near you.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> RomneYAN ................ coming to a White House near you.


I won;t bet against you on that one. From recent campaign reports, Obama has lost his mojo.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I won;t bet against you on that one. From recent campaign reports, Obama has lost his mojo.


Yep when Americans voted for BO they were tired of being Bush-whacked. BO promised change and delivered, as I predicted, more of the same. Now Bush III must make way for Bush IV so the financial devastation of the nation can be completed, thus giving way to the New World Empire.beejaconbeejaconbeejacon


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Yep when Americans voted for BO they were tired of being Bush-whacked. BO promised change and delivered, as I predicted, more of the same. Now Bush III must make way for Bush IV so the financial devastation of the nation can be completed, thus giving way to the New World Empire.beejaconbeejaconbeejacon


Obama has done the impossible--created nostalgia for Bush!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I won;t bet against you on that one. From recent campaign reports, Obama has lost his mojo.


True. If the American people are not up in arms over Romney paying less tax, percentage wise, than 99% of Americans, I don't see what will rile them. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama has done the impossible--created nostalgia for Bush!


----------



## Dr.G.

"We've come too far to turn back now .... Let's finish what we have started..........." It's now or never.

Let's finish what we started — Barack Obama


----------



## Dr.G.

Nice to have such generous friends ........... especially since they don't want anything in return for their friendship. 

"On Friday, Romney shared coconut shrimp skewers and duck samosas at the Sebonack Golf Club on the eastern end of Long Island with campaign supporters, including Woody Johnson, the owner of the New York Jets, and Steve Ross, who owns the Miami Dolphins. The fund-raiser brought in $3.25 million for the Republican candidate.

Saturday saw Romney island-hopping off the coast of Massachusetts, hitting fund-raisers on Martha's Vineyard ($2,500 for the reception, $25,000 for a photo, $50,000 for the VIP event), Cape Cod ($25,000 for a photo, $50,000 for VIP reception), and Nantucket ($2,500 for cocktails, $10,000 for the VIP reception).

Hosting the events were some prominent Republican backers: Jack Welch, the former chairman of General Electric; former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist; and Bill Koch, a businessman whose brothers Charles and David are major backers of conservative and libertarian causes."

Romney pulls in $7 million on East Coast fund-raising swing – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

In all seriousness, I find it difficult to believe that Rep. Ron Paul is being given no role or voice at the Republican convention. I don't agree with most of his views, but I do view him as an honest politician who at least was open about his views and policies.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Saturday saw Romney island-hopping off the coast of Massachusetts, hitting fund-raisers on Martha's Vineyard ($2,500 for the reception, *$25,000 for a photo*, $50,000 for the VIP event), Cape Cod ($25,000 for a photo, $50,000 for VIP reception), and Nantucket ($2,500 for cocktails, $10,000 for the VIP reception).


5#!7. Never got 25 big ones for one of my photos.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Nice to have such generous friends ........... especially since they don't want anything in return for their friendship.


Better to be funded by President Obama's many anonymous offshore donors--without actual names, he couldn't pay them back if he tried.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> 5#!7. Never got 25 big ones for one of my photos.


eMacMan, you don't have the influence that Romney will have when he becomes president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Better to be funded by President Obama's many anonymous offshore donors--without actual names, he couldn't pay them back if he tried.


True!!!!! However, it has been leaked that one of these offshore donors was none other than Mitt Romney ................ who sent a huge donation from one of his secret off-shore Cayman Island accounts ................ and somehow he received a tax break for this donation. This is why he is not going to reveal any of his tax records ........ he does NOT want his friends and supporters to know that he supports Pres. Obama, that he has donated to organizations like the Red Cross, the ACLU, food banks and homeless shelters in Boston, and, worst of all, Planned Parenthood of Mass. "Oh the humanity" if that news ever broke out in the conservative media.

Still, if he keeps quiet, does not reveal any more tax info, keeps hammering home various half-truths about Pres. Obama, he should do well in November. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dr.G. said:


> Nice to have such generous friends ........... especially since they don't want anything in return for their friendship.
> 
> "On Friday, Romney shared coconut shrimp skewers and duck samosas at the Sebonack Golf Club on the eastern end of Long Island with campaign supporters, including Woody Johnson, the owner of the New York Jets, and Steve Ross, who owns the Miami Dolphins. The fund-raiser brought in $3.25 million for the Republican candidate.
> 
> Saturday saw Romney island-hopping off the coast of Massachusetts, hitting fund-raisers on Martha's Vineyard ($2,500 for the reception, $25,000 for a photo, $50,000 for the VIP event), Cape Cod ($25,000 for a photo, $50,000 for VIP reception), and Nantucket ($2,500 for cocktails, $10,000 for the VIP reception).
> 
> Hosting the events were some prominent Republican backers: Jack Welch, the former chairman of General Electric; former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist; and Bill Koch, a businessman whose brothers Charles and David are major backers of conservative and libertarian causes."
> 
> Romney pulls in $7 million on East Coast fund-raising swing – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Interesting, but many of these same people were part of a groups of Paul Ryan advocates and the main force behind the Tea Party movement. They take the old Tammany Hall point of view: "Better to lose an agenda than lose control of the party."

In that sense, the selection of Ryan for VP is a test of Romney's leadership. If he accedes, it's a big surrender of control—and a surrender to many of those who most opposed (and who inwardly continue to dislike) his nomination. Still, a Romney surrender to those who could easily pull their financial support from him is a victory for Romney in that it will help him get to the White House. Guess "the men behind the curtain", Romney, Paul and the Tea Party are big winners ............... but where does leave the average Amercian person????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> ... but where does leave the average Amercian person????


Free of Obama!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Free of Obama!


Right on, Brother Macfury. Then, with a Romney-Paul presidential dynasty, we shall be free of Pres. Obama, American socialism, paternalism, social support programs, and government intrusion into the lives of American corportations. A new golden era for American enterprise, a new "guilded age", will emerge from this renewal of faith in capitalism. Too bad that there is no contemporary of Mark Twain and Charles Dudley Warner who can rewrite "The Gilded Age: A Tale of Today". 

Just imagine Romney's inaugural address when he becomes the echo of Lincoln and states ""With malice toward some, with charity for none, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle to keep their tax records a secret from the American people."

Free at Last- Martin Luther King, Jr - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Emailed soon-to-be president, Mitt Romney, a good one-liner for his address to the nation on the 100th day of his administration. People will be quick to compare his first 100 days to that of FDR, and the dramatic and innovative social programs that came from the early days of the New Deal, to what MR hopes to do in his first 100 days -- tear down these social programs. Sadly, I don't think that MR can take all these programs apart in just 100 days, especially with Paul Ryan as his VP and not in Congress. So, in light of this perceived failure to carry forth his pledges to rebuild America, I told him to say this to the people of America --

"You know, my fellow Americans, I am not doing that badly in carrying out my program for America. At this point in his administration, William Henry Harrison had been dead for 68 days."

I had to send a check for $100 to have this joke considered, but if it helps MR get elected, it shall be worth every penny. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Only in America ...............


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You know, my fellow Americans, I am not doing that badly in carrying out my program for America. At this point in his administration, William Henry Harrison had been dead for 68 days."
> 
> I had to send a check for $100 to have this joke considered, but if it helps MR get elected, it shall be worth every penny. We shall see.


I will match that donation to see this joke told.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will match that donation to see this joke told.


Well, it's $100 to enter a joke .......... $500 to have your joke returned with Mitt Romney's signature ................ $1000 to have a picture of him ................. $5000 to have him sign the picture with your name included ................ and on and on and on it goes. Still, it is for a good cause .................. the "return to normalcy", as Pres. Harding once said .............. back to the days of unlimited potentials and a sense of the 1950s when America was strong and unafraid of anyone ............ except the reds under the bed. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami. Yours in Victory ....................


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
> 
> Only in America ...............


Sadly to say on BBC Canada on "Top Gear" they had a Formula One car play "God Save the Queen." It's all in the software.


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> Sadly to say on BBC Canada on "Top Gear" they had a Formula One car play "God Save the Queen." It's all in the software.


Well, in America, they play a different tune. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

This could spell trouble. Better that Ryan keep his tax records a secret.

(CNN) – Tax documents released Friday by Republican vice presidential candidate show Paul Ryan had an income tax bill in 2011 of approximately 20% of his income, and 16% in 2010. 

Those numbers indicate he paid a larger percentage of his income in taxes in the past two years than did his running mate Mitt Romney, whose effective tax rate over the same two years was approximately 14.5%, according to returns the Republican presidential candidate and his wife released earlier this year.


----------



## Macfury

Most Americans pay no federal income tax at all. I find this notion of concentrating on tax rates paid a major embarrassment to media members who are so focused on it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Most Americans pay no federal income tax at all. I find this notion of concentrating on tax rates paid a major embarrassment to media members who are so focused on it.


Well, almost true. About half of Americans pay no federal income tax, according to Forbes Magazine, with some being the very poor and some being the very rich. However, for the likes of you and me, income tax is not the same thing as federal tax. Payroll tax raises nearly as much money as personal income tax, and is much less progressive—essentially everyone who works pays it, at a flat rate, and the tax is actually capped so that high earners pay a smaller percentage of their income than moderate and low earners. And people who don’t pay income tax pay other federal taxes, such as excise taxes on gasoline and tobacco. They also bear some of the burden of the corporate income tax.

So, Americans do pay some tax of some sort at the federal/state level. We are lucky to live in Canada where our tax dollars help to provide medical care. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, almost true. About half of Americans pay no federal income tax, according to Forbes Magazine, with some being the very poor and some being the very rich. However, for the likes of you and me, income tax is not the same thing as federal tax. Payroll tax raises nearly as much money as personal income tax, and is much less progressive—essentially everyone who works pays it, at a flat rate, and the tax is actually capped so that high earners pay a smaller percentage of their income than moderate and low earners. And people who don’t pay income tax pay other federal taxes, such as excise taxes on gasoline and tobacco. They also bear some of the burden of the corporate income tax.
> 
> So, Americans do pay some tax of some sort at the federal/state level. We are lucky to live in Canada where our tax dollars help to provide medical care.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I _said _income tax.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I _said _income tax.


I know, but the stats don't seem to hold up that "most Americans don't pay income tax", since more than 50% of Americans do pay income tax.

Still, with any luck, with a sweeping Republican Party-Tea Party victory in Nov., with Romney/Paul leading the way, they can set their sights to eliminating the 16th Amendment, specifically the part of Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:

"The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States." This brought about the income tax act, which has been the thorn in the side of the wealthy ever since. 

So, doing away with the income tax act would eliminate the need to disclose income tax forms from prior year. Case closed.

Now, where are those transcripts????????????????


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I _said _income tax.


I can assure you that when you are in your first year of business, your gross income for the year is less than $10,000 and you have to cough up nearly $900 for Social Security, you become very well aware that it is a relevant federal tax. Anyone that has been there, is also aware that SS and Medicare are not "Entitlements" but benefits that have been paid for with blood, sweat and tears. 

The fact that every president from Clinton on has been stealing from this fund does not mean SS and Medicare should be abolished, rather the wars that are bleeding it need to be halted, the looting needs to be stopped, and the stolen funds repaid. Do that and both SS and Medicare are entirely self sustaining.


----------



## Macfury

INCOME tax.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> INCOME tax.


True, and MORE than half of Americans pay some income tax, regardless of the rate.

Still, Romney has to difuse this issue by continuing to stall and NOT reveal his tax records if he wants to coast into the White House. Many tax-paying Americans feel that it is fundamentally wrong for someone of great wealth to pay less a percentage of their income in the form of income taxes than someone earning less than $200,000. The most I ever earned in the US was $7200 one year, and I paid a higher percentage of this income than Mitt Ronmey on his $21 million. He HAS to keep stalling and get off this issue ................

Where are Pres. Obama's college transcripts?????? That is of far greater importance than how Mitt Romney managed to earn so much and pay a smaller percentage of tax than a majority of Americans.


----------



## i-rui

Missouri Republican claims ‘legitimate rape’ rarely results in pregnancy – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

republicans have the women vote in the bag 
**sarcasm**


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> INCOME tax.


Since Social Security is a percentage of your earned income with zero deductible and heavy campaigns underway to revoke the associated benefits Americans have paid for, how can it be thought of as anything but a tax on income?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Since Social Security is a percentage of your earned income with zero deductible and heavy campaigns underway to revoke the associated benefits Americans have paid for, how can it be thought of as anything but a tax on income?


You can think of it as anything you like. It is not income tax.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> You can think of it as anything you like. It is not income tax.


It looks like a skunk and it smells like a skunk. You can paint on all the red or blue pinstripes you want, it is still a skunk.


----------



## Dr.G.

Payback - YouTube

The Koch brothers had better get some more of their negative ads on the air if they don't want this ad to stick.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ron Paul delegates set to strike deal with RNC – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

This is like being given better deck chairs on the Titanic. They should have held off with letting Ron Paul, not Rand Paul, speak. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Here's the Republican Party's message to women in 2012: No choice. No exceptions.

After 48 straight hours of Republicans falling all over each other calling for Rep. Todd Akin to rescind his ridiculous, ignorant-of-basic-biological-functions comments about rape and abortion, their party just voted to embrace Akin's position by including a constitutional ban on all abortions -- even in cases of rape or incest -- in their 2012 platform.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are now, incredibly, saying they don't agree with the policies of the party whose nomination they're about to accept, but guess what? The Los Angeles Times reported yesterday that the platform was, and I quote, "written at the direction of Romney's campaign."

I think that now it the time to really ramp up the demands to see Pres. Obama's college transcripts. Weeks of these demands will bury issues like this, and Romney's tax returns to the back pages. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will match that donation to see this joke told.


FYI, they rejected my joke .................. but kept my money. Actually, if you are not an American citizen you can't donate to the Romney campaign. Sorry.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Dr.G. said:


> Here's the Republican Party's message to women in 2012: No choice. No exceptions.
> 
> After 48 straight hours of Republicans falling all over each other calling for Rep. Todd Akin to rescind his ridiculous, ignorant-of-basic-biological-functions comments about rape and abortion, their party just voted to embrace Akin's position by including a constitutional ban on all abortions -- even in cases of rape or incest -- in their 2012 platform.
> 
> Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are now, incredibly, saying they don't agree with the policies of the party whose nomination they're about to accept, but guess what? The Los Angeles Times reported yesterday that the platform was, and I quote, "written at the direction of Romney's campaign."
> 
> I think that now it the time to really ramp up the demands to see Pres. Obama's college transcripts. Weeks of these demands will bury issues like this, and Romney's tax returns to the back pages. We shall see.


Todd Akin, and today Rep Steve King are only guilty of saying what most Republicans lawmakers think but are usually smart enough not to say plainly and in public.

Just keep digging that hole GOP, just keep digging.


----------



## Dr.G.

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Todd Akin, and today Rep Steve King are only guilty of saying what most Republicans lawmakers think but are usually smart enough not to say plainly and in public.
> 
> Just keep digging that hole GOP, just keep digging.


Well, enough negative ads against Pres. Obama will help to take the focus away from these views. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncjPBUW314c

Again, this is not good news so close to the start of the school year. The Republicans should be flooding the airways with negative ads blasting Pres. Obama, saying that his literacy initiatives would result in more critical thinkers, which, in turn, could result in students becoming adults who question the motives and actions of the government and big business. This is truly un-American, and could even be seen as a violation of the Sedition Act of 1798. Forget about college transcripts, this could be the club with which to beat down any hopes of an Obama successful reerlection.

Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, Penalty on unlawful combinations to oppose the measures of government. That if any persons shall unlawfully combine or conspire together, with intent to oppose any measure or measures of the government of the United States, which are or shall be directed by proper authority, or to impede the operation of any law of the United States, or to intimidate or prevent any person holding a place or office in or under the government of the United States, from undertaking, performing or executing his trust or duty; And with such intent counselling &c. insurrections, riots, and if any person or persons, with intent as aforesaid, shall counsel, advise or attempt to procure any insurrection, riot, unlawful assembly, or combination, whether such conspiracy, threatening, counsel, advice, or attempt shall have the proposed effect or not, he or they shall be deemed guilty of a high misdemeanor, and on conviction, before any court of the United States having jurisdiction thereof; shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars, and by imprisonment during a term not less than six months nor exceeding five years; and further, at the discretion of the court may be holden to find sureties for his good behaviour in such sum, and for such time, as the said court may direct.


----------



## Rps

Well time for my two cents .... first, Marc, while I believe Obama has done as good a job as anyone in that political and economic situation, I think he is done. Mit and the boys will start painting a sea of red across the American landscape .... The only humps in the road might be the huge DEM -ocracies as in California..... 

Having now moved to Windsor, we pick up OTA broadcasts, and let me tell you there are so many lobby group ads on TV here I honestly believe the average American has little chance of rationally examining the facts and make a educated choice..... Hegemony reigns supreme and so much so it is really difficult to defend yourself . 

I


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well time for my two cents .... first, Marc, while I believe Obama has done as good a job as anyone in that political and economic situation, I think he is done. Mit and the boys will start painting a sea of red across the American landscape .... The only humps in the road might be the huge DEM -ocracies as in California.....
> 
> Having now moved to Windsor, we pick up OTA broadcasts, and let me tell you there are so many lobby group ads on TV here I honestly believe the average American has little chance of rationally examining the facts and make a educated choice..... Hegemony reigns supreme and so much so it is really difficult to defend yourself .
> 
> I


Yes, it's onwards to victory for Mitt and his gang. His first four years will be spent blaming Pres. Obama for the economic mess the US is in, and his next four years will be spent blaming Pres. Obama for the economic mess that he faced in his first term in office. Then, when VP Ryan runs for the presidency and wins, he will take a new and dramatic and maverick approach -- he will blame Pres. Bush for the economic mess that caused the economic mess for Pres. Obama, that caused the economic mess for Pres. Romney, but now, he is here to make things better again. He will run under the slogan "Yes We Can" and use the tune "Happy Days are Here Again" as his campaign is funded by big SuperPacs with deep pockets ....................... all the way to the White House.

This is why Pres. Obama's education policies are so dangerous to this scenario, since his literacy initiatives deemphasize merely taking tests and shifts the focus to actually reading with critical comprehension. This is a dangerous ability in the hands and minds of the average American. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

One of the things I constantly hear is how dumb Americans are and how poor their education system is...but really it is a product of fragmentation which really hurts the outcomes. That said, critical thinking is a very lobbied commodity in the U.S. I've become much impressed with Hirsch's Cultural Literacy and Spring' work on culture and I think that both have hit the nail on the head: the U.S education system fails to impress because the dominant class want it to "fail" .... Which means it isn't filing at all .... Its working as it was designed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> One of the things I constantly hear is how dumb Americans are and how poor their education system is...but really it is a product of fragmentation which really hurts the outcomes. That said, critical thinking is a very lobbied commodity in the U.S. I've become much impressed with Hirsch's Cultural Literacy and Spring' work on culture and I think that both have hit the nail on the head: the U.S education system fails to impress because the dominant class want it to "fail" .... Which means it isn't filing at all .... Its working as it was designed.


Rps, I have been reading Hirsch's "The Knowledge Deficit", in which he contends that the disappointing results on various reading tests is directly linked to a "knowledge deficit" that keeps students from making sense of what they read. He needs to expand upon this with students being able to "make sense" of what they read and to think and act critically upon this understanding. However, this is NOT what the Republicans would want in a voting polulace. Sarah Palin was right, "drill, baby, drill" and get those basic skills drilled into you .............. and killing off any desire to read beyond what is needed to pass the test.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Super PAC App

The Romney camp, and especially the Koch brothers, had better put an end to this app ASAP. They need to put out an ad of their own to highlight Mitt Romney ................ such as .............

Opening scene of the Swiss Alps .............. the Olympic Flame in London ............... clear blue waters splashing up on a beach ...............

""We know the Swiss have a special place in Mitt Romney's wallet – er – heart," the announcer says. "He kept millions in Swiss banks – those Swiss sure know how to keep a secret. Speaking of secrets, there's Bermuda. Home to a secretive corporation set up by Romney. No one knows why. And Romney won’t tell. And the Cayman Islands. Where Romney keeps millions to avoid U.S. taxes."

The ad concludes: "You gotta say this about Mitt Romney. He sure knows how to go for the gold - for himself."

Then there is a 1/4 second subliminal message which flashes across the screen -- Vote for Mitt Romney, the golden boy in this election.


----------



## Rps

Marc I do see your point here, you should also take a look at Strawberry's work as well if you haven't already ... He's into prior knowledge as well. I guess the issue is:. At what grade do we instill critical thinking and how would this be done?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well time for my two cents .... first, Marc, while I believe Obama has done as good a job as anyone in that political and economic situation, I think he is done. Mit and the boys will start painting a sea of red across the American landscape .... The only humps in the road might be the huge DEM -ocracies as in California.....
> 
> Having now moved to Windsor, we pick up OTA broadcasts, and let me tell you there are so many lobby group ads on TV here I honestly believe the average American has little chance of rationally examining the facts and make a educated choice..... Hegemony reigns supreme and so much so it is really difficult to defend yourself .
> 
> I


While Obama's job was difficult, given almost unlimited power to do as he pleased for two years, I believe he fell far short of the mark. Unfortunately, either his Administration or Obama himself have openly made comments outlining the promised results of their plans. Nobody can be happy with what was actually delivered--unless you like to watch a president play golf.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc I do see your point here, you should also take a look at Strawberry's work as well if you haven't already ... He's into prior knowledge as well. I guess the issue is:. At what grade do we instill critical thinking and how would this be done?


As early as possible. I have done workshops for teachers in K to grade 12 with strategies to help students become critical thinkers. I use a strategy called "Re-Quest", short for Reciprocal Question, which models question asking and answering. The key is to ask the sorts of questions that get students to understand at a surface level, then understand beneath the surface (i.e., deep structure), and then to start to make critical value judgements re this knowledge.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Nobody can be happy with what was actually delivered ...." Well, we shall see if Pres. Obama gets the "nobody vote" or if they all vote for Romney. If no one votes for Pres. Obama, then Romney will have a huge majority of all the electoral votes, and most likely both houses of Congress and all the state legislatures. That is absolute power. Just imagine what America would become in that situation???


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Nobody can be happy with what was actually delivered ...." Well, we shall see if Pres. Obama gets the "nobody vote" or if they all vote for Romney. If no one votes for Pres. Obama, then Romney will have a huge majority of all the electoral votes, and most likely both houses of Congress and all the state legislatures. That is absolute power. Just imagine what America would become in that situation???


I suspect they would not twiddle their thumbs in cleaning house, as Obama did.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I suspect they would not twiddle their thumbs in cleaning house, as Obama did.


Certainly not, Macfury. The Romney/Paul first hundred days will make FDR's New Deal look like a cub scout picnic. 

FDR, in his first 100 days (105 to be exact, but who's counting?) shepherded 15 major bills through Congress. It was the most intense period of lawmaking ever undertaken by Congress — a "presidential barrage of ideas and programs," historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. observed, "unlike anything known to American history." Roosevelt truly believed that when people could not help themselves, government had to step in, "not as a matter of charity but as a matter of social duty."

There was the Emergency Banking Act, the Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA), the Federal Emergency Relief Administration (FERA), the the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Truth-in-Securities Act, the Public Works Administration (PWA), the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC), the Emergency Banking Act, the Farm Credit Act, and the National Industrial Recovery Act, etc, etc, etc. Many of these social programs, which helped millions upon millions of Americans through a truly dark hour, survive to this day.

Well, in the first 100 days, I can foresee a Pres. Romney saying to the American people at his inaugural address the following --

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear... are social programs brought to you by Democrats — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days. So, I say unto you, my fellow Americans, no more of that. 

For the trust reposed in me I will return the courage and the devotion that befit the time. I can do no less. 

We face the arduous days that lie before us in the warm courage of the national unity; with the clear consciousness of seeking old and precious moral values; with the clean satisfaction that comes from the stern performance of duty by old and young alike. We aim at the assurance of a rounded and permanent national life. 

We do not distrust the future of essential democracy. The people of the United States have not failed. In their need they have registered a mandate that they want direct, vigorous action. They have asked for discipline and direction under leadership. They have made me the present instrument of their wishes. In the spirit of the gift I take it. 

In this dedication of a Nation we humbly ask the blessing of God. May He protect each and every one of us. May He guide me in the days to come."

Thousands, upon thousands of people at the swearing in ceremony, and millions upon millions of people throughout the US and around the world, spring to their feet and start to cheer. A spontaneous singing of "Happy Days are Here Again" swell up from the crowds of people that stream out into the streets throughout America.

" So long Obama times 
Go along Obama times 
We are rid of you at last 
Howdy happy times 
Cloudy gray times 
You are now a thing of the past 
Happy days are here again 
The skies above are clear again 
So let's sing a song of cheer again 
Happy days are here again 
Altogether shout it now 
There's no one 
Who can doubt it now 
So let's tell the world about it now 
Happy days are here again 
Your cares and troubles are gone 
There'll be no more help from us now on 
From now on you are on your own
Happy days are here again 
The skies above are clear again 
So, Let's sing a song of cheer again 
Happy times 
Happy nights 
Happy days 
Are here again!"


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Roosevelt truly believed that when people could not help themselves, government had to step in, "not as a matter of charity but as a matter of social duty."


And the result was a system in which everybody helps themselves... to the public purse.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> And the result was a system in which everybody helps themselves... to the public purse.


Something Romney wants no part of, as it reduces the size of the slice for his rich buddies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And the result was a system in which everybody helps themselves... to the public purse.


Not everyone, Macfury. This is where we differ. Not everyone needs help, not everyone who needs help gets help, and yes, there are some who don't need help and will not help themselves who still get help. Still, this is the price we pay for living in this sort of country.

Paix, mon ami.

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey


"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Still, this is the price we pay for living in this sort of country.


The price is now too high.




Dr.G. said:


> "...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey


Thank goodness that moral test does not extend to the unborn, or America would be judged and found terribly wanting.



Dr.G. said:


> "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi


And if our system perpetuates that weakness, then that nation shall not be found great.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The price is now too high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank goodness that moral test does not extend to the unborn, or America would be judged and found terribly wanting.
> 
> 
> 
> And if our system perpetuates that weakness, then that nation shall not be found great.


Well, once again, let's agree to disagree and remain friends. OK? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Remember the Alamo!!!

(CNN) -- An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.

The comments by Lubbock County Judge Tom Head, who oversees emergency planning efforts, were broadcast by CNN affiliate KJTV. He made similar remarks on radio station FOX Talk 950.

Saying that as the county's emergency management coordinator he has to "think about the very worst thing that can happen and prepare for that and hope and pray for the best," Head told radio host Jeff Klotzman that he believes "in this political climate and financial climate, what is the very worst thing that could happen right now? Obama gets back in the White House. No. God forbid."


Texas judge warns of civil war if Obama is re-elected - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

It's not nice to snub Mama Bear ...............

Washington (CNN) -- "Sarah Palin may have electrified the 2008 Republican presidential ticket when she was picked as John McCain's running mate, but just four years later her wattage has dimmed on the Republican stage.

She was snubbed for a coveted speaking role at the Republican National Convention in Tampa even though McCain, the senator from Arizona who surprised many when he selected Alaska's governor, is scheduled to speak. Other speaking spots were doled out to lesser lights like Rick Santorum, who vied unsuccessfully for the nomination this year.

Once the face of the tea party movement, Palin is not among speakers listed for the Tea Party Unity Rally on Sunday. Former presidential candidates Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minnesota, and pizza magnate Herman Cain are headlining."

Palin not present at RNC but still a presence - CNN.com


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.


That is just insane. I've heard it mentioned before, but never quite understood who these "United Nations" troops are that will supposedly invade America... Pakistanis? Brazilians? The French? Talk about wingnuttery....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> That is just insane. I've heard it mentioned before, but never quite understood who these "United Nations" troops are that will supposedly invade America... Pakistanis? Brazilians? The French? Talk about wingnuttery....


A well-armed populace would take out those blue helmets in a hurry.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> ... pizza magnate Herman Cain are headlining."


if you haven't seen it yet, Google John Oliver's interviews with Cain on the Daily Show. I have to say, he's been a good sport about his evolution into caricature!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> A well-armed populace would take out those blue helmets in a hurry.


That's not the point. That some people actually believe this stuff is the best evidence yet for the lack of sufficient mental health coverage in the USA.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> That is just insane. I've heard it mentioned before, but never quite understood who these "United Nations" troops are that will supposedly invade America... Pakistanis? Brazilians? The French? Talk about wingnuttery....


Hey, don't shoot the messenger...............


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A well-armed populace would take out those blue helmets in a hurry.


True. Armed with a bible in one hand, a gun in the other hand, and the Second Amendment in the other hand (  ) , the militia will save the day. "Death before dishonor" .................. "and from my cold dead hands ..............." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> That's not the point. That some people actually believe this stuff is the best evidence yet for the lack of sufficient mental health coverage in the USA.


Not when Obamacare is done away with by the Romney/Paul dynasty.


----------



## Rps

You know it has been said that all "leading' countries have to have an enemy .... The British used to classify such things in a category called "price of empire" ... But over the recent years I don't think I have ever seen our U.S. brothers and sisters to the south (north were I live ) engaged in so much fear ... Even the most ridiculous assertions seem to gain some form of credibility not only amongst the fear mongers, but the general population ... One wonders how one governs in such a situation when everyone seems to be at war with someone or something ...... Including amongst themselves. There seems to be an illogical need to "defend oneself" which seems to be evolving into an aspect of their national culture.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You know it has been said that all "leading' countries have to have an enemy .... The British used to classify such things in a category called "price of empire" ... But over the recent years I don't think I have ever seen our U.S. brothers and sisters to the south (north were I live ) engaged in so much fear ... Even the most ridiculous assertions seem to gain some form of credibility not only amongst the fear mongers, but the general population ... One wonders how one governs in such a situation when everyone seems to be at war with someone or something ...... Including amongst themselves. There seems to be an illogical need to "defend oneself" which seems to be evolving into an aspect of their national culture.


Valid points, Rp. It is difficult for anyone of any party to govern in this climate. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

FDR: WARNING ABOUT TODAY'S REPUBLICANS - YouTube

This could sound relevant today.


----------



## groovetube

My. The public having access to the public purse? Did I see that a page back? Well given it's the public who put the money there in the first place, it's rather astounding to see a libertarian assert that the government has better ideas what to do with our money!

Once again, the libertarian position shows it's utter hypocrisy!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> My. The public having access to the public purse? Did I see that a page back? Well given it's the public who put the money there in the first place, it's rather astounding to see a libertarian assert that the government has better ideas what to do with our money!
> 
> Once again, the libertarian position shows it's utter hypocrisy!


Who are you calling a hypocrite? Me?? FDR???


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> FDR: WARNING ABOUT TODAY'S REPUBLICANS - YouTube
> 
> This could sound relevant today.


The old fool!


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Who are you calling a hypocrite? Me?? FDR???


are you a libertarian?????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The old fool!


God bless "old fools" like FDR that helped millions upon millions of American at a time of true crisis.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> are you a libertarian?????


No, but I was not sure if you were calling me or FDR a hypocrite. I think I see now at whom you were directing your comment. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Neil Macdonald: The fact-free campaign for the U.S. presidency - World - CBC News

An interesting analysis from a trusted Canadian journalist.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Neil Macdonald: The fact-free campaign for the U.S. presidency - World - CBC News
> 
> An interesting analysis from a trusted Canadian journalist.


Not only fact free but substance free.

No mention of the $Trillions$ being siphoned off to the war machine and the Banksters. It's all guns and abortion with a bit of homophobia and religious intolerance for good measure.


----------



## Dr.G.

Here is a person who has views that I respect, even when they are unlike my own positions.

(CNN) -- Buckle up! The political conventions in Tampa and Charlotte over the next two weeks will throw the 2012 election campaigns into high gear, and send it careering down a mean, rocky road toward one of the most important choices Americans have made in half a century.

Only twice before in the lives of most voters have we seen an election offering such radically different visions about the role of government in national life.

The first was 1964, when Lyndon Baines Johnson was holding up the Democratic standard, calling for government to create a Great Society with a cornucopia of new federal programs. On the other side, Barry Goldwater had seized the Republican banner from previously-dominant moderates and crusaded on the most conservative agenda in six decades, seeking to push back not only the Great Society, but much of the New Deal.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice and ... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" Goldwater declared to thunderous applause at the GOP convention. It was a bare-knuckles fight, but LBJ was campaigning in John F. Kennedy's cloak and Goldwater's proposals were seen as scary and radical. LBJ swept to a crushing victory. Score one for bigger government.

The second "choice" election came in 1980, when, after a decade of failed leadership, a man came galloping out of the West who seemed the most improbable of figures to get the country going again. And he was carrying with him many of Goldwater's ideas. But Ronald Regan turned out to be a strong leader with a million-dollar smile; Jimmy Carter, a man better suited to be a saint than a politician, went down decisively. Score one for smaller government.


Election a stark choice on America's future - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> God bless "old fools" like FDR that helped millions upon millions of American at a time of true crisis.


Bless him for extending the Great Depression for years and years? Whatever floats your boat, I guess...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Bless him for extending the Great Depression for years and years? Whatever floats your boat, I guess...


Sorry, Macfury, but I am going to have to quote someone I think you respect and not get into this debate once again ............... Paix, mon ami.

"There You Go Again!" ~ Ronald Reagan - YouTube


----------



## Rps

Hi Marc, just finished watching another 6 ads by lobby groups for and against the DRIC ( the new bridge between Windsor and Detroit ) so here's the question as it relates to this thread .... "Are U.S. Lobby groups the main cause of the massive miscommunication amongst the U.S voting public, and, do we have the same thing here..........


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, Macfury, but I am going to have to quote someone I think you respect and not get into this debate once again ............... Paix, mon ami.
> 
> "There You Go Again!" ~ Ronald Reagan - YouTube


You don't have to get into this debate at all, if you refrain from touting FDR's "achievements."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, I am curious. Suppose Hoover fell ill in 1932, and Charles Curtis, his VP running mate did not want to run for office. At the Republican convention you are drafted as their nominee and go on to a smashing victory at the convention. In the general election, you run against FDR, and when the votes are counted, he wins only Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, and you win all of the other 45 states. You control both houses of Congress with a very supportive Congress who want to help you in any way end the Great Depression. 

Since you feel that FDR extended the Great Depression for many years, what would you have done were you president and in control of both houses of Congress to end the Depression??????


----------



## Dr.G.

When Franklin Roosevelt accepted the Democratic nomination in 1932, he introduced Americans to his vision of a New Deal -- a program of government assistance that would include help to farmers, workers and small business owners. FDR pushed back against the economic orthodoxies of the time, telling delegates, "Our Republican leaders tell us economic laws --sacred, inviolable, unchangeable -- cause panics which no one could prevent. But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving."


----------



## Dr.G.

"The U.S. Republican Party will call next week for a commission to examine the possibility of returning the American currency to the gold standard."

Republicans to discuss return to gold standard at convention - Business - CBC News

FDR Ends Gold Standard in 1933 - YouTube

William Jennings Bryan's Cross of Gold Speech - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee for president of the United States, just said this: "No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place that we were born and raised."

Take a moment or two to think about that, what he's actually saying, and what it says about Mitt Romney.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee for president of the United States, just said this: "No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place that we were born and raised."
> 
> Take a moment or two to think about that, what he's actually saying, and what it says about Mitt Romney.


It tells me that he is a pandering jerk!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hi Marc, just finished watching another 6 ads by lobby groups for and against the DRIC ( the new bridge between Windsor and Detroit ) so here's the question as it relates to this thread .... "Are U.S. Lobby groups the main cause of the massive miscommunication amongst the U.S voting public, and, do we have the same thing here..........


Rps, between lobby groups and the Super PAC ads, there is a major misdirection of various American policies taking place. We have lobby groups here, but not the Super PACs, so we have to rely upon the various ads we see/hear. Of course, there are the robocalls, but that is another matter.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You don't have to get into this debate at all, if you refrain from touting FDR's "achievements."


Well, they are achievements that saved millions upon millions of people at a time of dire need. :clap::clap::clap::clap:

I repeat my scenario to you --

Macfury, I am curious. Suppose Hoover fell ill in 1932, and Charles Curtis, his VP running mate did not want to run for office. At the Republican convention you are drafted as their nominee and go on to a smashing victory at the convention. In the general election, you run against FDR, and when the votes are counted, he wins only Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, and you win all of the other 45 states. You control both houses of Congress with a very supportive Congress who want to help you in any way end the Great Depression. 

Since you feel that FDR extended the Great Depression for many years, what would you have done were you president and in control of both houses of Congress to end the Depression?????? 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> It tells me that he is a pandering jerk!


Maybe so, but he WAS born in the USA ..................... 

Bruce Springsteen - Born in the USA (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube


----------



## MacDoc

Depression Repuglican version.....

..."let them eat cake" ......


----------



## Rps

I wonder if he has a copy of the short or long form. Say, since Tampa hasn't had a hurricane in around 100 years and as it is the Republican Convention, would this be classed as an act of G_d?


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Depression Repuglican version.....
> 
> ..."let them eat cake" ......


Be careful, MacDoc. Macfury may still come up with a better plan to help Americans during the Great Depression that will make you, me and FDR eat our words and not cake. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I wonder if he has a copy of the short or long form. Say, since Tampa hasn't had a hurricane in around 100 years and as it is the Republican Convention, would this be classed as an act of G_d?


Tampa gets brushed with a hurricane every two years, and hit hard every 9 years. No, I think that God will spare Tampa and the Republican Convention from this storm. Still, it would make a great photo op with an approaching hurricane and Mitt Romney, at God's command, takes Paul Ryan to the Tampa/Clearwater Causeway in order to sacrifice him as Hurricane Issac approaches. Suddenly, an angel appears and Romney is directed to sacrifice a nearby Democrat instead. With this act, he wins the presidency for life.

Romney does not need a birth certificate since he WAS born in the USA. Of course, George Romney, Mitt's father, was born to American parents living in the Mormon colonies in Mexico. Still, that is far better than what Pres. Obama has to offer the American people as proof that he is an American.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I wonder if he has a copy of the short or long form. Say, since Tampa hasn't had a hurricane in around 100 years and as it is the Republican Convention, would this be classed as an act of G_d?


In a statement responding to Romney's comments, Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt mentioned real estate magnate Donald Trump and others who have pursued the birth certificate issue.

"Throughout this campaign, Governor Romney has embraced the most strident voices in his party instead of standing up to them," LaBolt said, adding that Romney's "decision to directly enlist himself in the 'birther' movement should give pause to any rational voter across America."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, I am curious. Suppose Hoover fell ill in 1932, and Charles Curtis, his VP running mate did not want to run for office. At the Republican convention you are drafted as their nominee and go on to a smashing victory at the convention. In the general election, you run against FDR, and when the votes are counted, he wins only Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, and you win all of the other 45 states. You control both houses of Congress with a very supportive Congress who want to help you in any way end the Great Depression.
> 
> Since you feel that FDR extended the Great Depression for many years, what would you have done were you president and in control of both houses of Congress to end the Depression??????


Both Hoover and FDR were meddling staists who felt that they could "manage" the economy and promote economic growth through government largesse. Neither had any relevant solutions to the fiscal crisis of the 1930s because they were responsible for it.

So the questions of what I would have done? Some essentials:

1. Although it had already wreaked havoc with the stock market, immediate repeal of the Smoot-Hawley tariff.
2. Immediate end to agricultural supply management, which raised prices for hard-hit consumers.
3. Allow wages to fall to the levels of new economic reality which would have increased employment for all, instead of sustaining a 20% unemployment rate for a decade at unrealistic fixed wages.
4. Immediate repeal of the National Industrial Recovery Act, which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution


----------



## kps

What a comedian...good stand up. LOL

I guess he's partly right.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

kps, as I see it the Republicans were stuck in the snow, then the Democrats got into the car and decided they were just going to rev the engines until the ruts got too deep to get back out. Now it IS time to let a driver get back into the driver's seat.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Both Hoover and FDR were meddling staists who felt that they could "manage" the economy and promote economic growth through government largesse. Neither had any relevant solutions to the fiscal crisis of the 1930s because they were responsible for it.
> 
> So the questions of what I would have done? Some essentials:
> 
> 1. Although it had already wreaked havoc with the stock market, immediate repeal of the Smoot-Hawley tariff.
> 2. Immediate end to agricultural supply management, which raised prices for hard-hit consumers.
> 3. Allow wages to fall to the levels of new economic reality which would have increased employment for all, instead of sustaining a 20% unemployment rate for a decade at unrealistic fixed wages.
> 4. Immediate repeal of the National Industrial Recovery Act, which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution


OK, fair enough. Your Congress has repealed these acts ................ but now what of the real human suffering that is going on throughout the US? 

Now, with Smoot-Hawley gone, American exports and imports, which were reduced by more than half, may now flow again ................. except there is not the money to buy these goods and millions are out of work who once produced these goods.

Now, no more agricultural supplements .............. so more farmers go under and there are less food to go around ................ which raises prices to everyone (unless you shall also suspend the reality of "supply and demand").

You can't repeal the National Industrial Recovery Act, since it was FDR that brought in this act to help establish a national public works program (thus, no NRA or WPA, which helped millions upon millions of people).

Wages now fall to record lows, with riots to get the few jobs that now exist at less than subsistance levels. The union movement is crushed, but millions of unemployed workers who refuse to work for "slave wages" begin to organize in a mass movement (remember what Hoover faced with the "Bonus March" of 1931. What you shall face makes this look like a bunch of boy scouts.)

So, you have riots and starvation in your first hundred days. At least FDR DID something during these 100 days. You have done less than Hoover (at least he had Hoovervilles named after him as a sign of the shacks that sprung up in public parks to house the homeless). 

Bottom line, you have proposed nothing of substance. The situation is getting worse and you are wondering what do to.

Mock FDR and his "accomplishments" if you want, but there are still people alive today who will tell you that they are alive because of FDR's programs.

You are merely the 32nd president .................. and I strongly doubt you shall be re-elected three more times.

Sorry, mon ami, FDR was FAR better for the people of the US than you if this is all you propose.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## kps

Well someone sure needs to take the wheel, but I'm not sure if Romney/Ryan is the right ticket. We'll just have to wait and see who gets to sit in the coveted driver's seat.


----------



## Dr.G.

kps said:


> What a comedian...good stand up. LOL
> 
> I guess he's partly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Excellent analogy!!!!!!!!! I like his analogy better than the one of Bush driving the car into the tree and then tossing the keys to the car to Pres. Obama and saying "She's all yours now" as the car bursts into flames.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

kps said:


> Well someone sure needs to take the wheel, but I'm not sure if Romney/Ryan is the right ticket. We'll just have to wait and see who gets to sit in the coveted driver's seat.


WE shall be in the back seat like Mr. Bill of SNL fame ................. who goes over the cliff. XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, you are not alone in having no answer to what you would do to have ended the Great Depression. Mitt Romney was asked the same question as I asked you and all he said was "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ..................." Thus, you are in good company. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, you are not alone in having no answer to what you would do to have ended the Great Depression. Mitt Romney was asked the same question as I asked you and all he said was "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ..................." Thus, you are in good company. Paix, mon ami.


No, I have an excellent answer, but I have not yet had time to sit down and refute your points.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No, I have an excellent answer, but I have not yet had time to sit down and refute your points.


Great. We shall await your answer. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Tripped over this Gem this AM.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Tripped over this Gem this AM.
> 
> View attachment 24872


XX)


----------



## MacDoc

*Made my day.....Isaac 1- Repuglies 0*



> *Republican convention: Storm concerns delay proceedings*
> Published on Saturday August 25, 2012
> 
> Joe Raedle/GETTY IMAGES William Harris cuts a board to size to fit over a window of a building he is securing on Saturday in Tampa, Fla*. Area residents are preparing for Tropical Storm Isaac, which could become a hurricane by the time it hits ground.*
> 
> By Mitch Potter Washington Bureau
> 
> TAMPA—Tropical Storm Isaac may not spare Tampa. So Republicans decided late Saturday to spare themselves.
> 
> In an 11th-hour decision as the gathering storm drew nearer, Republican National Convention officials made the difficult call to shrink the four-day gathering by a day, cancelling Monday’s proceedings.
> 
> Though most, if not all, of the estimated 50,000 visitors are to arrive Sunday, officials said the cancellation of Monday’s events will spare attendees from what could be “severe transportation difficulties due to sustained wind and rain.”


Republican convention: Storm concerns delay proceedings - thestar.com

Could not happen to a more deserving bunch.....I hope the damn thing winds up to a Cat 4 and scatters the ditzes.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> *Made my day.....Isaac 1- Repuglies 0*
> 
> 
> 
> Republican convention: Storm concerns delay proceedings - thestar.com
> 
> Could not happen to a more deserving bunch.....I hope the damn thing winds up to a Cat 4 and scatters the ditzes.


I would not want to see the harm to people or damage to property that a category 4 hurricane might do to that region.


----------



## Dr.G.

Born in the USA ...............


----------



## MacDoc

True but the are used to it and the greater threat in the long term is the Repuglies. IMNSHO
consider this










Obama Climate Change Report: Don’t Retire to Florida, it Will be Under Water! | The Great Illuminator


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> True but the are used to it and the greater threat in the long term is the Repuglies. IMNSHO
> consider this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama Climate Change Report: Don’t Retire to Florida, it Will be Under Water! | The Great Illuminator


MacDoc, I have been in one Florida hurricane, two south Georgia hurricanes (40 miles from Jacksonville, Florida) and a few in New York City -- trust me, one does not get used to these sorts of storms. 

No, let Romney and Paul get nominated, and then let Pres. Obama and Biden get re-nominated, and then let's get on with the election. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Question for you.....if you were Obama, would you run with Biden again?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Question for you.....if you were Obama, would you run with Biden again?


I wouldn't, but with no clear reason to drop him from the ticket (e.g., health reasons), it is better to present a unified ticket and "sink or swim" with that team than to change suddenly. There was a call for H. Clinton to be named VP and Biden being Sect. of State. That would have made sense, but never came to pass. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> *Made my day.....Isaac 1- Repuglies 0*
> 
> 
> 
> Republican convention: Storm concerns delay proceedings - thestar.com
> 
> Could not happen to a more deserving bunch.....I hope the damn thing winds up to a Cat 4 and scatters the ditzes.


Hurricane Ike | The Most Destructive U.S. Hurricanes of All Time | U.S. | TIME.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Born in the USA ...............


If only they would reveal the original form, instead of a duplicate, this could be put to rest.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If only they would reveal the original form, instead of a duplicate, this could be put to rest.


Hawaii says it is the original, so you would have to argue with them, Macfury. Now, his college transcripts are anothe matter. Pres. Obama has no other recourse than to ask Romney how his policies would make college affordable for those who struggle to pay for college/university. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting article on CNN.

"However, World War I brought sharp policy disagreements to the party. And when Herbert Hoover ushered in the Great Depression, the Republicans were driven into retreat.

It would be 20 years until they won the White House again, under Dwight Eisenhower.

But since 1969, they have been largely back to their winning ways.

During that time, Republicans have been in the Oval Office for almost twice as many years as the Democrats -- Nixon (elected to two terms, but resigned at the start of his second), Ford (served out Nixon's second term), Reagan (elected to two terms), George H.W. Bush (elected to one term) and George W. Bush (elected to two terms).

Now Mitt Romney is hoping to restart that tradition."

CNN Explains: How today's GOP has its roots in anti-slavery crusade - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hawaii says it is the original, so you would have to argue with them, Macfury. Now, his college transcripts are anothe matter. Pres. Obama has no other recourse than to ask Romney how his policies would make college affordable for those who struggle to pay for college/university. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


No, the file released by the White House is not a scan of a single document. It is made up of various items cobbled together.

One of Obama's classmates, Wayne Allen Root, has gone public and says that neither he nor any of his fellow students ever saw Obama in class. He suspects that Obama was enrolled as a foreign student, which would be very embarrassing, as Obama was born in Hawaii.

Former Classmate Speculates About Obama Applying For Foreign Student Aid - Investors.com


----------



## groovetube

hard to believe some people are still enamoured with the glenn beck-esque conspiracy nonsense for the sheep.

I was more interested in how the great depression was the lefties fault return. I'm sorely disappointed!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Question for you.....if you were Obama, would you run with Biden again?


Biden is a fool, but why mess with a team that has earned such high praise at home and abroad?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Biden is a fool, but why mess with a team that has earned such high praise at home and abroad?


True, easier for a Romney/Ryan dynasty.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> hard to believe some people are still enamoured with the glenn beck-esque conspiracy nonsense for the sheep.
> 
> I was more interested in how the great depression was the lefties fault return. I'm sorely disappointed!


Well, gt, it is common knowledge, at least with some of us in ehMacLand, that FDR caused/prolonged the Great Depression, caused both the first and second world wars, and was the cause of such failed ideas such as The New Deal, which lead to the Great Society. Get with the program, mon ami. Failed policies that help millions upon millions of people are still failed policies. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", so why bring up the subject at all???? As I said, get with the program ............. join the 1% and ride out the coming recession/depression with the knowledge that government is looking out after your interests .................... so long as the government is being lead by the Romney/Ryan dynasty. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Failed policies that help millions upon millions of people are still failed policies..


If you help millions at the expense of tens of millions, you have failed.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, gt, it is common knowledge, at least with some of us in ehMacLand, that FDR caused/prolonged the Great Depression, caused both the first and second world wars, and was the cause of such failed ideas such as The New Deal, which lead to the Great Society. Get with the program, mon ami. Failed policies that help millions upon millions of people are still failed policies. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", so why bring up the subject at all???? As I said, get with the program ............. join the 1% and ride out the coming recession/depression with the knowledge that government is looking out after your interests .................... so long as the government is being lead by the Romney/Ryan dynasty. We shall see.


right. I notice you never got your answer. Big surprise.

Anyway, allow me to lob a jab at the upcoming Rom-na-thon. With all their jesus talk and stuff.


----------



## groovetube

did I just see an assertion that there are more haves than have nots?

Well that should put things in perspective quite nicely!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If you help millions at the expense of tens of millions, you have failed.


True ..................... they should have been left to starve .............. a fine way to "decrease the surplus population."

Surplus Population - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> right. I notice you never got your answer. Big surprise.
> 
> Anyway, allow me to lob a jab at the upcoming Rom-na-thon. With all their jesus talk and stuff.


Jesus said unto him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

And Romney said unto him, "If thou wilt be a member of the Bain executive, go and sell that thou hast, and hide it in a Cayman Island account, and thou shall have treasure protected from the IRS. Come and follow me, for I shall be president."


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> did I just see an assertion that there are more haves than have nots?
> 
> Well that should put things in perspective quite nicely!


"What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray."

According to the Book of Romney/Paul, you protect the 1% to ensure that there is enough to keep them whole and fit .................. and forget about the 99%.


----------



## groovetube

and carve off a slice of your fat and hand it to the poor. And pontificate loudly about how since you give to charity, it surely makes your political position the real deal.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ..................... they should have been left to starve .............. a fine way to "decrease the surplus population."
> 
> Surplus Population - YouTube


They did not starve--they suffered an extended and soul-destroying Depression.


----------



## Dr.G.

Carefuly, gt, for you are starting to creat a dichotomy that will split the conservative religious right from the fiscal conservative right, and that will cause problems for the Romney/Paul dynasty.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> and carve off a slice of your fat and hand it to the poor. And pontificate loudly about how since you give to charity, it surely makes your political position the real deal.


"For the Savior, love and charity were identical. All of His acts of charity were done not from a sense of duty, but from a deep feeling of love for all He encountered. He didn’t limit His service to His friends, although He served His friends as well. He didn’t limit it to those who were wealthy or middle class. He didn’t even limit it to those who were worthy, in the world’s eyes, of charity."

"“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’ "

Luckily for the poor, God is on the side of the Romney/Paul dynasty.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> No, the file released by the White House is not a scan of a single document. It is made up of various items cobbled together.


Sigh. *Birther*, much?



> *Short form*
> 
> (SNIP)
> 
> *Rejection by conspiracy theorists*
> 
> The release of the certificate in 2008 resulted in a fresh round of questions. It was asserted that the certificate had been digitally forged with Adobe Photoshop and lacked a stamped seal of the state, which led them to demand that Obama release his "original" 1961 birth certificate.[25] Jerome Corsi, author of the book The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality, told Fox News that "the campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website... it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce."[7] This view was rejected by FactCheck.org, which viewed the Obama campaign's hard copy of the Certification of Live Birth and reported that:
> 
> FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.[7]​
> *Long form, 2011*
> 
> On April 22, 2011, Obama asked Loretta Fuddy, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth ("long-form birth certificate").[45] Accompanying the letter was a written request from Judith Corley, Obama's personal counsel, requesting a waiver of the department's policy on computer-generated certificates. Corley stated that granting the waiver would relieve the department of the burden of repeated inquiries into the President's birth records.[46]
> 
> On April 25, 2011, Fuddy approved the request and witnessed the copying process as the health department's registrar issued the certified copies. The same day, Corley personally visited the department headquarters in Honolulu to pay the required fee on Obama's behalf, and received the two requested certified copies of the original birth certificate, an accompanying letter from Fuddy attesting to the authenticity of same, and a receipt for the processing fee. Fuddy said that she had granted the exception to its normal policy of issuing only computer-generated copies by virtue of Obama's status, in an effort to avoid ongoing requests for the birth certificate.[47][48]
> 
> On April 27, White House staffers gave reporters a copy of the certificate, which they had posted on the White House website.[49][50] It confirmed the details of the official short-form certificate released in 2008.[51][52]
> 
> *Rejection by conspiracy theorists*
> 
> A claim put forth by the Drudge Report[53] that the newly released document was a forgery made with image editing software quickly spread on the Internet.[54] Nathan Goulding, chief technology officer of the National Review magazine, dismissed the matter of "layered components" found in the White House PDF by suggesting "that whoever scanned the birth certificate in Hawaii forgot to turn off the OCR setting on the scanner." and adding "I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home."[55]
> 
> (Wikipedia)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They did not starve--they suffered an extended and soul-destroying Depression.


"... for economic and political progress as a nation, we all go up, or else we all go down, as one people." Pres. Roosevelt

More FDR lies ................. no one starved, they just suffered "an extended and soul-destroying Depression", caused and extended by .................. you guessed it, FDR. 

Stories from the Great Depression - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Sigh. *Birther*, much?


CM, you are confusing conspiracy with the truth. Get with the program.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, have a chuckle over this New Deal propaganda. What a laugh.

New Deal - 1930's Government Promotional Video (4of4) - YouTube

Depression Video - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Isaac could hinder GOP chance to define Romney at convention - CNN.com

I think that in all political fairness, if Hurricane Issac disrupts the Republican convention, the Democrats should cancel their convention. It is only fair, and "all is fair in love and war" ............. and politics. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Isaac could hinder GOP chance to define Romney at convention - CNN.com
> 
> I think that in all political fairness, if Hurricane Issac disrupts the Republican convention, the Democrats should cancel their convention. It is only fair, and "all is fair in love and war" ............. and politics. We shall see.


The Republirats have passed several laws by-passing the Constitution, which will effectively prevent any protesters from coming any where near the Convention. I am sure that Isaac will be summarily convicted of a criminal offense and jailed without trial, should it come any where near the Convention.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> The Republirats have passed several laws by-passing the Constitution, which will effectively prevent any protesters from coming any where near the Convention. I am sure that Isaac will be summarily convicted of a criminal offense and jailed without trial, should it come any where near the Convention.


Mother Nature on trial??????????? Bonne chance, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Sigh. *Birther*, much?


Not at all. I believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I also believe that the document presented is not intact. I can't even speculate as to why they would have presented the document as it was presented.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Mother Nature on trial??????????? Bonne chance, mon ami.


If as they claim, God is on their side; The Republirats should have no difficulty trying Mother Nature. However, should such a trial prove difficult or inconvenient, the law does now allow indefinite detention without due legal process, of any protester who gets within hailing distance of anyone protected by the Secret Service.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Not at all. I believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I also believe that the document presented is not intact. I can't even speculate as to why they would have presented the document as it was presented.


And the basis for this belief? And are you talking about the short form release or the subsequent long form release?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> And the basis for this belief? And are you talking about the short form release or the subsequent long form release?


Subsequent long form release. I have been scanning and preparing images since Photoshop 1 and there are some obvious problems with the file presented on the White House site. However, knowing that the people who presented the scan would be aware of such discrepancies, my only speculation--not a conspiracy--is that it might have been presented with a few such flaws in order to confound and distract birthers while proving the Hawaiian birth to the rest of the population.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ...I have been scanning and preparing images since Photoshop 1 and there are some obvious problems with the file presented on the White House site...


....just slapped my forehead in astonishment so hard, I may have a concussion...

And you give the _left_ a hard time about conspiracies? Geez Louise!


----------



## Macfury

I said I don't believe it to be a conspiracy. And I said that the scan is made up of images from more than one scan. If you don't have the background to discuss this technically, by all means keep slapping your head--could actually be therapeutic in some cases.


----------



## CubaMark

Interesting article... moreso in that I came across it in the UK news (The Independent) with the headline *"US troops plotted to kill Obama"*, whereas a subsequent search of Google News turned up only a single entry in the Sacramento Bee, with the headline *"Ga. murder case uncovers terror plot by soldiers"*

It's an Associated Press story, available to any subscribing news organization (i.e., pretty much all of 'em), so the content is identical. But the respective Editor's choice of headline is interesting.

The story:



> LUDOWICI, Ga. -- Prosecutors say a murder case against four soldiers in Georgia has revealed they formed an anarchist militia within the U.S. military with plans to overthrow the federal government.
> 
> One of the accused troops, Pfc. Michael Burnett, pleaded guilty Monday to manslaughter and gang charges in the December slayings of former soldier Michael Roark and his girlfriend, 17-year-old Tiffany York.
> 
> Burnett told a Long County judge that Roark, who had just left the Army, knew of the militia group's plans and was killed because he was "a loose end."
> 
> Prosecutor Isabel Pauley says the group bought $87,000 worth of guns and bomb-making materials and plotted to take over Fort Stewart, bomb targets in nearby Savannah and Washington state, as well as assassinate the president.


(Sacramento Bee / UK Independent)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Interesting article... moreso in that I came across it in the UK news (The Independent) with the headline *"US troops plotted to kill Obama"*, whereas a subsequent search of Google News turned up only a single entry in the Sacramento Bee, with the headline *"Ga. murder case uncovers terror plot by soldiers"*


The story has been run widely throughout the U.S. and the rest of the world. What are you saying here?


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Subsequent long form release. I have been scanning and preparing images since Photoshop 1 and there are some obvious problems with the file presented on the White House site. However, knowing that the people who presented the scan would be aware of such discrepancies, my only speculation--not a conspiracy--is that it might have been presented with a few such flaws in order to confound and distract birthers while proving the Hawaiian birth to the rest of the population.


did you read this?:



> A claim put forth by the Drudge Report[53] that the newly released document was a forgery made with image editing software quickly spread on the Internet.[54] Nathan Goulding, chief technology officer of the National Review magazine, dismissed the matter of "layered components" found in the White House PDF by suggesting "that whoever scanned the birth certificate in Hawaii forgot to turn off the OCR setting on the scanner." and adding "I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home."[55]


more info :

PDF Layers in Obama’s Birth Certificate - By Nathan Goulding - The Corner - National Review Online


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> did you read this?:
> 
> 
> 
> more info :
> 
> PDF Layers in Obama’s Birth Certificate - By Nathan Goulding - The Corner - National Review Online


Yes I did. My criticism of the document has nothing to do with this.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The story has been run widely throughout the U.S. and the rest of the world. What are you saying here?


I'm saying it's the first I've heard of it. And doing a search for news items related to this, either using the keywords (soldier name) or "troops kill obama" gets you four hits in Google News, all posted within the last hour. Seems like something that would rate a little higher on the media's interest scale, no?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Yes I did. My criticism of the document has nothing to do with this.


It's not your _criticism_ we're taking issue with. It's your *ahem* "_speculation_".


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> If as they claim, God is on their side; The Republirats should have no difficulty trying Mother Nature. However, should such a trial prove difficult or inconvenient, the law does now allow indefinite detention without due legal process, of any protester who gets within hailing distance of anyone protected by the Secret Service.


We shall see, eMacMan, we shall see. Paix mon ami.

"The whole world is watching."

Bob Dylan - With God On Our Side - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm saying it's the first I've heard of it. And doing a search for news items related to this, either using the keywords (soldier name) or "troops kill obama" gets you four hits in Google News, all posted within the last hour. Seems like something that would rate a little higher on the media's interest scale, no?


I'm getting plenty. Must be geo-filtering.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> It's not your _criticism_ we're taking issue with. It's your *ahem* "_speculation_".


My speculation is merely that. I know no other reason why a scan in that condition would be released, with scanning artifacts intact, except deliberately. It does not mean there is no better explanation.


----------



## groovetube

While some people chase theories about birth certificates, hopefully, enough will be more interested in where the US is headed.


----------



## MacDoc

This guy is - made my day take II

Former GOP governor?s Obama endorsement throws the right a curveball - The Globe and Mail



> Tampa may have escaped the worst of tropical storm Isaac, but Republicans arrived for their convention to find another kind of tempest brewing over the direction of their party.
> 
> Florida’s former Republican governor, Charlie Crist, stole almost as much of the convention’s thunder as Isaac by formally endorsing President Barack Obama over GOP nominee Mitt Romney on Sunday. He lashed out at the GOP for moving so far to the right that moderates like him have been left with no other choice but to quit the party.


:clap:


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> This guy is - made my day take II


The real story here is that Crist was so far left he was squashed by Marco Rubio. At this point, I suspect only Democrats will be paying attention to this sad sack.

Pretty sweet--Romney is being introduced by Rubio, the guy who hammered Crist.

Loser Crist gets to speak at the Democrat convention. Poetic, that.


----------



## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> This guy is - made my day take II
> 
> Former GOP governor?s Obama endorsement throws the right a curveball - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> :clap:


Former *Florida* governor?? That's gotta leave a mark.

Interesting how many in the GOP are starting to speak out on the hard right swing. It seems they realize that the country, unlike what many hard right/libertarian's like to dream, is more likely to respond to more moderate conservatism, than their doomed to fail hard right policies.


----------



## MacDoc

Hmmm iconic for 2012 Republican Convention.....bit of Amerika lurking...


----------



## Macfury

Amerika is the lefty vision of America--that would be the Democrats you're thinking of.


----------



## Dr.G.

The presidency: So, Mitt, what do you really believe? | The Economist

This is not helpful ............. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

> In theory, Mr Romney has a detailed 59-point economic plan. In practice, it ignores virtually all the difficult or interesting questions (indeed, “The Romney Programme for Economic Recovery, Growth and Jobs” is like “Fifty Shades of Grey” without the sex).


Look! Shiny ball! Obama's birth certificate!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Look! Shiny ball! Obama's birth certificate!


Yes, master ................... yes, master ..................... I shall obey, master ............... XX)


----------



## groovetube

Though it seems that while the republicans are trying to define Romney, the news will likely be dominated by hurricane updates and news. So, while the republican tries to recover rom an, er, act of god, (ironically) Obama will be having a chance to show how a hurricane disaster should be dealt with in Louisiana.

I suggest the republicans and their supporters keep yapping about Obama's birth certificate. It may on of the few things they'll have.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Though it seems that while the republicans are trying to define Romney, the news will likely be dominated by hurricane updates and news. So, while the republican tries to recover rom an, er, act of god, (ironically) Obama will be having a chance to show how a hurricane disaster should be dealt with in Louisiana.
> 
> I suggest the republicans and their supporters keep yapping about Obama's birth certificate. It may on of the few things they'll have.


We shall see, mon ami ............. we shall see. Paix.


----------



## SINC

Mitt Romney's unpaid family bill catches up with him | Books | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Mitt Romney's unpaid family bill catches up with him | Books | guardian.co.uk


 This is worse than Pres. Obama not showing his college transcripts!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The presidency: So, Mitt, what do you really believe? | The Economist
> 
> This is not helpful ............. We shall see.


Given that Obama has gone full tilt on all of the negative policies that Romney may have once supported to a lesser degree, I would say that Romney is the intelligent choice--even for promising to undo such presidential mischief. If he achieves 10 per cent of that vision, he will be a success.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Given that Obama has gone full tilt on all of the negative policies that Romney may have once supported to a lesser degree, I would say that Romney is the intelligent choice--even for promising to undo such presidential mischief. If he achieves 10 per cent of that vision, he will be a success.


We shall see, Macfury. With Ronmey/Paul going with 90% negative ads this cycle, I sense that it may backfire. Luckily for this team, the House of Representatives was able to stall any real economic plan put forth by Pres. Obama that might have helped the economy. This is a situation that the Romney/Paul team did NOT want to see happen. Better to let people suffer than to let Pres. Obama take some credit for helping the economy, and thus, helping people reclaim some sense of dignity (and a job) that was lost at the end of the Bush years.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see, Macfury. With Ronmey/Paul going with 90% negative ads this cycle, I sense that it may backfire. Luckily for this team, the House of Representatives was able to stall any real economic plan put forth by Pres. Obama that might have helped the economy. This is a situation that the Romney/Paul team did NOT want to see happen. Better to let people suffer than to let Pres. Obama take some credit for helping the economy, and thus, helping people reclaim some sense of dignity (and a job) that was lost at the end of the Bush years.


They were able to heroically prevent Obama from doing further damage to the economy, having watched him handle things as he wished over his first two ineffectual years. Obama is a one-man wrecking crew, so merely penning him up is the best one can do in this situation.

Regarding negative ads, I suppose Romney may have taken a page out of the Democrat playbook after that one campaign ad accused Romney of killing a man's wife. President Obama has set a low bar in this election.


----------



## groovetube

The fact that Obama couldn't reverse the worst financial crisis in 70 years in less than 2 years is quite damning. 

It's time to return to the policies that led up to the financial disaster!


Makes perfect sense.

And yes all those negatives ads? Obama *made* them do it. The republicans would never stoop to such things.

Anyway, perhaps the only acceptable form of proof that Obama was indeed born in the US, are pictures, (certified of course), blood samples, and dna traces on the hospital bed he was born on. This is far more important besides the obvious facts that the conservatives have a much better track record with deficits. :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They were able to heroically prevent Obama from doing further damage to the economy, having watched him handle things as he wished over his first two ineffectual years. Obama is a one-man wrecking crew, so merely penning him up is the best one can do in this situation.
> 
> Regarding negative ads, I suppose Romney may have taken a page out of the Democrat playbook after that one campaign ad accused Romney of killing a man's wife. President Obama has set a low bar in this election.


Right on, brother. Let them suffer .............. too bad that the "them" are those in most need .............. but, hey, who are we to care or bother. "Live free or die" is my motto. Just wait until the Romney/Ryan dynasty has their say with control of both sides of Congress and a smashing majority from the people of the US. They heads will turn as government programs/departments are slashed, burned, cut and mutilated. There shall be blood on the ledgers of the US federal departments as the end of the spend, spend, spend Democratic era comes to an end. 

Who knows, but Romney might even bring back a revised WPA, except the work will be forced labor .................. that should help to bring back jobs to the US when companies don't have to worry about minimum wages, worker's comp, unions, business safety regulations, environmental legislation, etc. They could even bring about Newt's notion of child labor. I would draw the line at hiring children younger than six. I do have my standards. Still, why pay one person a living wage when you can have dozens of children doing this one job for pennies a day????


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The fact that Obama couldn't reverse the worst financial crisis in 70 years in less than 2 years is quite damning.
> 
> It's time to return to the policies that led up to the financial disaster!
> 
> 
> Makes perfect sense. :lmao:


True. A return to "the good old days" .............. or, as Warren G. Harding once said, "A return to normalcy" (of course, he meant to say "normality", but let's not quibble with a fine Republican president).


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, brother. Let them suffer .............. too bad that the "them" are those in most need .............. b


If one's idea of helping those ineneed is to replace a healthy economy and a low unemployment rate with increased enrollment in Food Stamp programs, Obama has had his shot at demonstrating the value of this approach to the American people.

We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If one's idea of helping those ineneed is to replace a healthy economy and a low unemployment rate with increased enrollment in Food Stamp programs, Obama has had his shot at demonstrating the value of this approach to the American people.
> 
> We shall see.


Again we are in agreement. Stop the food stamps program, stop the food aid programs, stop the subsidized school breakfast and school lunch programs (full disclosure, I did teach in a school that had these sorts of school programs and my students did much better in school when they were not hungry), stop the giving of surplus food to food banks, stop, stop, stop ............... cut, cut, cut ................ drill, drill, drill .................

Yes, we shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Again we are in agreement. Stop the food stamps program, stop the food aid programs, stop the subsidized school breakfast and school lunch programs (full disclosure, I did teach in a school that had these sorts of school programs and my students did much better in school when they were not hungry), stop the giving of surplus food to food banks, stop, stop, stop ............... cut, cut, cut ................ drill, drill, drill .................
> 
> Yes, we shall see.


When Obama's economic program results in more people applying for these services, there is a problem... with Obama's policies. He is out of his depth. 

At least he will retire knowing he was the first substantially black president--a historic achievement.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Again we are in agreement. Stop the food stamps program, stop the food aid programs, stop the subsidized school breakfast and school lunch programs (full disclosure, I did teach in a school that had these sorts of school programs and my students did much better in school when they were not hungry), stop the giving of surplus food to food banks, stop, stop, stop ............... cut, cut, cut ................ drill, drill, drill .................
> 
> Yes, we shall see.


Yes. This. Stop all those aid programs now that Americans were thrown out of work. Tell them that that money must be returned to the corporations.

Trickle down baby! All the way!

(did the chicken come before the egg?)


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Yes. This. Stop all those aid programs now that Americans were thrown out of work. Tell them that that money must be returned to the corporations.
> 
> Trickle down baby! All the way!
> 
> (did the chicken come before the egg?)


Now you are coming around to our way of thinking, gt. Once you believe in the concept of Social Darwinism and the motto "Live free or die", then, and only then will you be a true libertarian. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Now you are coming around to our way of thinking, gt. Once you believe in the concept of Social Darwinism and the motto "Live free or die", then, and only then will you be a true libertarian. Paix, mon ami.


exactly. All this talk that the corporations/banks etc. having thrown all those people out of work leading to the need for programs to help them, all nonsense!

The chicken did come before the egg!


----------



## groovetube

Coal miners say they were forced to attend Romney event and donate | The Raw Story

Another example of a bunch of ingrates, who don't know what's good for them.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> exactly. All this talk that the corporations/banks etc. having thrown all those people out of work leading to the need for programs to help them, all nonsense!
> 
> The chicken did come before the egg!


Right on, Brother gt. It is bad enough that corporations have to pay corporate taxes as if they were a common wage earner, but now they are expected to provide high paying jobs for millions of people. No way. Better that they provide millions upon millions of low paying jobs to employ people, which will then help to increase the corporate profits, and thus, the price of the shares of these corporations. "The business of America is business."


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Coal miners say they were forced to attend Romney event and donate | The Raw Story
> 
> Another example of a bunch of ingrates, who don't know what's good for them.


Union slobs all of them. They don't know what it was like in the days before the unions when the coal companies would tell them that if they did not come to work on Sunday that they need not come to work on Monday.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney secures enough delegates to officially win the GOP presidential nomination at the party’s Tampa convention. 

Surprise Surprise Surprise - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

"In a sign of lingering internal division in the party after a rugged primary campaign won by Romney, rival candidate Rep. Ron Paul of Texas was thronged by supporters when he came on the convention floor before Tuesday's session convened. Some Paul supporters shouted "let him speak," referring to their candidate's exclusion from the convention agenda.

Paul supporters later protested a rule change adopted by the convention that they believe will hinder their kind of grass-roots campaign in the future. They also cheered wildly when their candidate received any delegates in the state-by-state roll call, prompting organizers to stop calling out the Paul delegates." tptptptptptptptp

Romney officially clinches nomination at condensed GOP convention - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

It's sad that such a weak candidate as Romney appears strong next to Obama.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> "In a sign of lingering internal division in the party after a rugged primary campaign won by Romney, rival candidate Rep. Ron Paul of Texas was thronged by supporters when he came on the convention floor before Tuesday's session convened. Some Paul supporters shouted "let him speak," referring to their candidate's exclusion from the convention agenda.
> 
> Paul supporters later protested a rule change adopted by the convention that they believe will hinder their kind of grass-roots campaign in the future. They also cheered wildly when their candidate received any delegates in the state-by-state roll call, prompting organizers to stop calling out the Paul delegates." tptptptptptptptp
> 
> Romney officially clinches nomination at condensed GOP convention - CNN.com


The republican party seems toast to me, pretty much out of the gate. This should be a shoe in election for them, but Romney is struggling with the gaffes, internal party conflicts, not to mention an act of god which will steal at least half the media space around their convention.

But, that seems the best the republicans can muster at this point. Unfortunate that Romney listened to the group of unicorns and sparkles that thought a hard right swing would improve their fortunes.

Sheer delusions. They better hope the American voters are busily focusing themselves on Obama's birth certificate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's sad that such a weak candidate as Romney appears strong next to Obama.


Weak???????? Who are you for, Macfury??? Have you gone over to the dark side and are now supporting Pres. Obama????? What next ............... will you sing the praises of FDR?????? 

I am shocked .....................


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The republican party seems toast to me, pretty much out of the gate. This should be a shoe in election for them, but Romney is struggling with the gaffes, internal party conflicts, not to mention an act of god which will steal at least half the media space around their convention.
> 
> But, that seems the best the republicans can muster at this point. Unfortunate that Romney listened to the group of unicorns and sparkles that thought a hard right swing would improve their fortunes.
> 
> Sheer delusions. They better hope the American voters are busily focusing themselves on Obama's birth certificate.


You have Americans all wrong, gt, as you do Republicans. Republican have God on their side ............... most Americans like a winnner ................ ergo, Romney wins in a romp. There might be the disgruntled who feel that the cuts the Republicans shall make will hurt millions upon millons of people, but that's the way it is. In America, the pendulum has to make a full swing every 80 years ................. so, from 1932, with FDR's New Deal helping Americans rise up from the despair of the Great Depression, to Romney taking those same programs away from the grand children of these people, all has come full circle. As I said, get with the program. This is the New World Order, and you either are productive or better get used to not getting a free lunch.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Well, apparently, "they built it"

We're not really sure what Romney actually -built-.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well, apparently, "they built it"
> 
> We're not really sure what Romney actually -built-.


His form of American capitalism built a strong America .............. and the Romney/Ryan dynasty shall rebuild a strong America, where the rich get rich, and the richer get even richer, and some crumbs trickle down to some.

U.S. wealth gap widening, poll finds - Business - CBC News


----------



## CubaMark

*'We're Not Going to Let Our Campaign Be Dictated by Fact-Checkers'*



> The New York Times, in a front-page story, flatly stated that a Romney ad was "falsely charging that Mr. Obama has 'quietly announced' plans to eliminate work and job training requirements for welfare beneficiaries."
> 
> But what if it turns out that when the press calls a lie a lie, nobody cares?
> Here in Tampa, the new assertiveness is getting its first test on a big stage, and so far the results are not encouraging. As Ben Smith of BuzzFeed has pointed out, the Romney campaign is simply swatting aside the media's objections to its welfare ad: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers," said Neil Newhouse, a Romney pollster.





> ...the ad is continuing to run. It is continuing to run because the Romney campaign's polling shows it to be effective. And therefore, kind of by definition, the press pushback is not having much effect -- at least not so far, and at least not in the battlegrounds where the ad is playing.
> 
> Instead of being able to stand above the fray as some sort of neutral arbiter of the truth, the press may be finding that it is winding up on one side of a new kind of he-said-she-said argument.


(TheAtlantic)


----------



## Macfury

More to the point, CM, how do you see Obama's new approach to workfare? Why is Romney's depiction of it inaccurate?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> More to the point, CM, how do you see Obama's new approach to workfare? Why is Romney's depiction of it inaccurate?


I can't express an informed opinion - haven't been keeping up on the topic (a little busy making diaper dollars down here).

From the article referenced above, three very serious journalists (and others) seem to think Romney's ad is misrepresenting the Obama policy.

But what I found more interesting than the specific issue is the willingness of the Romney campaign to keep pushing the issue when considerable backlash has arisen regarding it's veracity.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I can't express an informed opinion - haven't been keeping up on the topic (a little busy making diaper dollars down here).
> 
> From the article referenced above, three very serious journalists (and others) seem to think Romney's ad is misrepresenting the Obama policy.
> 
> But what I found more interesting than the specific issue is the willingness of the Romney campaign to keep pushing the issue when considerable backlash has arisen regarding it's veracity.


It seems to me that the accusation is substantially correct. Obama has handed waivers to states to gut workfare through the back door, because he cannot change the legislation through Congress.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> It seems to me that the accusation is substantially correct. Obama has handed waivers to states to gut workfare through the back door, because he cannot change the legislation through Congress.


the idea from the Obama administration was for it to be a waiver aimed at reducing red tape so that states that administer welfare programs could put more people on payrolls, not fewer. It was something that governors asked for (many republican), and was completely bi-partisan.

*Even Mitt Romney wanted to do the same when he was Governor of Massachusetts!!*

it is an absolute political lie. the worst kind. of course people will believe whatever they want to, but when virtually every fact checking organization comes out against something it speaks volumes.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> the idea from the Obama administration was for it to be a waiver aimed at reducing red tape so that states that administer welfare programs could put more people on payrolls, not fewer. It was something that governors asked for (many republican), and was completely bi-partisan.
> 
> *Even Mitt Romney wanted to do the same when he was Governor of Massachusetts!!*
> 
> it is an absolute political lie. the worst kind. of course people will believe whatever they want to, but when virtually every fact checking organization comes out against something it speaks volumes.


How could reducing workfare requirements put more people on payrolls?

Health and Human Resources simply stated that any state gutting workfare "must commit that their proposals will move at least 20 percent more people from welfare to work compared [with] the state’s prior performance.” In other words, the successful workfare program will be ended, based on vague promises to boost employment.


----------



## MacDoc

Dinosaurs roaring and trumpeting down south.....more's the pity. 

Tim Harper: Republicans? new uber-conservative platform would outlaw all abortions, fight ban on assault weapons - thestar.com


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *'We're Not Going to Let Our Campaign Be Dictated by Fact-Checkers'*
> 
> 
> 
> (TheAtlantic)


Never let a good fact stand in the way of a march to victory, CM. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ann Romney yelled out "I love you women." Is she courting the lesbian vote for Romney???? She has more charisma than he does.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> *'We're Not Going to Let Our Campaign Be Dictated by Fact-Checkers'*
> 
> 
> 
> (TheAtlantic)


OMG. They didn't.... actually utter those words did they?

It seems, the republicans aren't just going to make his election just about the economy. They actually, want to make the issue of women's rights one of the top issues. 

Talk about lighting yourself on fire...


----------



## Dr.G.

I listened to Gov. Christie's speech on Fox News just to see how they covered the issue. He went on for 11 minutes without even mentioning Romney's name. They commented that the Romney handlers would NOT be pleased with this oversight. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I listened to Gov. Christie's speech on Fox News just to see how they covered the issue. He went on for 11 minutes without even mentioning Romney's name. They commented that the Romney handlers would NOT be pleased with this oversight. We shall see.


Christie needs to concentrate on President Obama''s malfeasance. Thankful that he did.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Dinosaurs roaring and trumpeting down south.....more's the pity.
> 
> Tim Harper: Republicans? new uber-conservative platform would outlaw all abortions, fight ban on assault weapons - thestar.com


The article is typical _Toronto_ Star claptrap, which some people around here accept as gospel. The platform is no different than it has ever been--it opposes using federal funds to pay for abortion and defers such decisions to the states.

The Clinton assault weapons gun ban expired in 2004. The Obama Administration could easily have restored it, but chose not to.

Any more FUD to offer, MacDoc?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Christie needs to concentrate on President Obama''s malfeasance. Thankful that he did.


Tell that to Romney's handlers. They are NOT amused according to Fox News. CNN did not even mention this, so maybe it is really not a true news story.


----------



## groovetube

Anyone watching the republicans would see them talking about the legality of abortions (even in the case of rape...) NOT about federal funding. If it were really simply up to the states one has wonder why, this time around the issue of women's rights are taking so much time in the republicans speeches.

EDIT:

In regards to the assault weapon ban, someone seems to like their own facts. The ban was in place in 1994 under Clinton, but expired in 2004 under Bush. Not Clinton. And the article in the Star, quote:


> oppose any move to restore the ban on assault weapons.


meaning there isn't one now, but they would oppose any attempt to put one in place.

What was that about FUD?

yeah.

Speaking of FUD,looks like the Romney bunch are busy slamming out their own: GOP Governor Acknowledges That Romney's Welfare Attack Ads Are False | ThinkProgress


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Anyone watching the republicans would see them talking about the legality of abortions (even in the case of rape...) NOT about federal funding. If it were really simply up to the states one has wonder why, this time around the issue of women's rights are taking so much time in the republicans speeches.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> In regards to the assault weapon ban, someone seems to like their own facts. The ban was in place in 1994 under Clinton, but expired in 2004 under Bush. Not Clinton. And the article in the Star, quote:
> 
> 
> meaning there isn't one now, but they would oppose any attempt to put one in place.
> 
> What was that about FUD?
> 
> yeah.
> 
> Speaking of FUD,looks like the Romney bunch are busy slamming out their own: GOP Governor Acknowledges That Romney's Welfare Attack Ads Are False | ThinkProgress


Those on welfare should be given 3 months to get a job ............... or get off welfare. Close the homeless shelters that get federal, state or municipal assistance, close the food banks that are not privately funded/run, end minimum wages, end child labor laws that forbid children from working, and stop loaning money to students to go to college/university ........................ and END all legislation that allows for unions to exist. Add to this an end to regulations for clean air/water/land/etc and you have the start of a growing American economy. The Romney/Ryan dynasty might being about some or all of these measures .................... and, like the old joke about what do you get by throwing politicans into the Atlantic Ocean, with the answer being "a start", America shall again being "the home of the free and the land of the brave", at least for the 1% folks. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, I don't want to remind you all that FDR did in his first week in office, but your presidency has yet to see anything other than you being sworn in and moving in to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. People are waiting for your answers to the Great Depression. Paix, mon ami .............. et bonne chance.


----------



## Dr.G.

There is possible trouble in the hen house .............

TRENDING: Palin canceled on Fox? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

As well as trouble in the sandbox.

Ron Paul supporters put dent in unity at GOP convention – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, I don't want to remind you all that FDR did in his first week in office, but your presidency has yet to see anything other than you being sworn in and moving in to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. People are waiting for your answers to the Great Depression. Paix, mon ami .............. et bonne chance.


FDR did much damage in those early days. I had planned to counter your post on the Great Depression at some point over the next few days--I was not aware that people were so much looking forward to it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR did much damage in those early days. I had planned to counter your post on the Great Depression at some point over the next few days--I was not aware that people were so much looking forward to it.


Great. With millions out of work, homeless people living in Hoovervilles, and starvation across the land, people anxiously await your bold actions. Of course, I think that your main point in your inaugural address of "Don't worry ....... be happy .......... things will get better soon ......... I am president now" fell a bit sort of FDR's "I am certain that my fellow Americans expect that on my induction into the Presidency I will address them with a candor and a decision which the present situation of our people impel. This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days." 

Still, you are in control now, so bonne chance, mon ami. Paix.

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR's First Inaugural Address


----------



## Dr.G.

Paul supporters protest through convention halls – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Good for them. While I did not support many of Ron Paul's views, I remember working for Gene McCarthy back in 1968 and running as an alternate delegate for him in New York City. I won, but never did go to Chicago.


----------



## SINC

Ryan Says President Barack Obama broke his promise to keep a Wisconsin GM plant from closing. It closed before Obama took office.

PolitiFact Wisconsin | Did Barack Obama break a promise to keep GM plant open?


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Ryan Says President Barack Obama broke his promise to keep a Wisconsin GM plant from closing. It closed before Obama took office.
> 
> PolitiFact Wisconsin | Did Barack Obama break a promise to keep GM plant open?


Who cares what The Truth-O-Meter says??????? Facts should not get in the way of the Romney/Ryan Express. So long as people hear what he says and believe it, that is all that matters. Get with the program, Sinc. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

I once worked with some one on something and I asked , can you get away with that? He looked a me wryly and said, you just have to tell them a story they will believe.

Why do they do it? It's because they can.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Ryan Says President Barack Obama broke his promise to keep a Wisconsin GM plant from closing. It closed before Obama took office.
> 
> PolitiFact Wisconsin | Did Barack Obama break a promise to keep GM plant open?


When he visited the plant just before being elected, Obama said it would remain "viable"--not open. A strange contradicition in terms, but there you have it.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I once worked with some one on something and I asked , can you get away with that? He looked a me wryly and said, you just have to tell them a story they will believe.
> 
> Why do they do it? It's because they can.


Sounds like Newspeak and Doublethink to me, gt. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Saw a few leaked excerpts from Ronmey's speech tonight. He was quite the hero, especially reading how he survived the crash of his boat, PT? 109 (Pay Taxes? is the long name of the yacht and 109 is the line where one puts all of their tax-sheltered deductions), and helped his crew swim ashore. It took four hours for the survivors to reach their destination, 3.5 miles away, which they reached without interference from Cayman Island tax officials. Romney, who had been on the Harvard University varsity swim team, just like President John Kennedy, used a life jacket strap clenched between his teeth to tow his badly-burned senior Bain executive, Patrick McMahon, to shore. Yes, he was quite the hero.


----------



## Macfury

President Obama can deal with these unfounded allegations of hidden wealth by merely eliminating wealth across the board--and he has pursued this goal with unusual vigour.


----------



## groovetube

So now the democrats are eliminating wealth across the board?

This gets more entertaining as it goes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> President Obama can deal with these unfounded allegations of hidden wealth by merely eliminating wealth across the board--and he has pursued this goal with unusual vigour.


Well, it seems as if Pres. Obama is a total failure at eliminating "wealth across the board". His socialist dreams of a just and equal society never evolved. According to the Internal Revenue Service provided a first peek at taxpayers' returns in 2011 and it showed that adjusted gross income totaled $8 trillion, up 5.2% from 2009.

Taxpayers earning more than $250,000 saw their total adjusted gross incomes rise by 13.8%, while those bringing home between $200K and $250K enjoyed a 6.7% increase, according to a CNNMoney analysis.

Middle-class Americans? Not so fortunate. Those making between $50K and $100K saw their incomes creep up only 1.5%.

Part of the imbalance comes from differences in the growth of wages, the largest component of adjusted gross income.

Overall, salaries and wages grew 2.1%. But the super-rich saw an 11.2% hike, and those just below them enjoyed a 4.6% increase.

But the middle class saw a drop of 0.7% in wages."

So, the rich got richer and the poor and middle class got poorer. What a failure Pres. Obama was in this redistribution of wealth. He should be turfed in favor of Romney, one person who knows how to get wealthy and could help every American get wealthy. Romney might even return to a phrase that the Republican National Committee created back in 1928. They inserted it into a number of newspapers during the 1928 campaign. The ad described in detail how the Republican administrations of Harding and Coolidge had "reduced hours and increased earning capacity, silenced discontent, put the proverbial 'chicken in every pot.' And a car in every backyard, to boot." The ad concluded that a vote for Hoover would be a vote for continued prosperity. Again, Romney, with his various cars, could say he was helping Americans all buy cars. Of course, I am not sure if he likes chicken.


----------



## Macfury

Wealth is only barely keeping pace with inflation? What a sad state of affairs.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## Macfury

More FUD, MacDoc. The City of Tampa banned the protest paraphernalia, not the governor. The Secret Service has jurisdiction over the convention, not the governor or the mayor of Tampa.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it seems as if Pres. Obama is a total failure at eliminating "wealth across the board". His socialist dreams of a just and equal society never evolved. According to the Internal Revenue Service provided a first peek at taxpayers' returns in 2011 and it showed that adjusted gross income totaled $8 trillion, up 5.2% from 2009.
> 
> Taxpayers earning more than $250,000 saw their total adjusted gross incomes rise by 13.8%, while those bringing home between $200K and $250K enjoyed a 6.7% increase, according to a CNNMoney analysis.
> 
> Middle-class Americans? Not so fortunate. Those making between $50K and $100K saw their incomes creep up only 1.5%.
> 
> Part of the imbalance comes from differences in the growth of wages, the largest component of adjusted gross income.
> 
> Overall, salaries and wages grew 2.1%. But the super-rich saw an 11.2% hike, and those just below them enjoyed a 4.6% increase.
> 
> But the middle class saw a drop of 0.7% in wages."
> 
> So, the rich got richer and the poor and middle class got poorer. What a failure Pres. Obama was in this redistribution of wealth. He should be turfed in favor of Romney, one person who knows how to get wealthy and could help every American get wealthy. Romney might even return to a phrase that the Republican National Committee created back in 1928. They inserted it into a number of newspapers during the 1928 campaign. The ad described in detail how the Republican administrations of Harding and Coolidge had "reduced hours and increased earning capacity, silenced discontent, put the proverbial 'chicken in every pot.' And a car in every backyard, to boot." The ad concluded that a vote for Hoover would be a vote for continued prosperity. Again, Romney, with his various cars, could say he was helping Americans all buy cars. Of course, I am not sure if he likes chicken.


hardly "eliminating wealth"... :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> More FUD, MacDoc. The City of Tampa banned the protest paraphernalia, not the governor. The Secret Service has jurisdiction over the convention, not the governor or the mayor of Tampa.


The poster never suggested this.


----------



## eMacMan

One thing is for sure and that is that the Republirat Constitutional right, to avoid encounters with protesters, will be protected no matter what the cost.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Wealth is only barely keeping pace with inflation? What a sad state of affairs.


True. Let's blame Pres. Obama for the 2-3% rate of inflation as well. How will the likes of Romney, Donald Trump, the Koch brothers, et al, maintain their wealth as inflation erodes their buying power? Guess Pres. Obama's pledge that "yes we can" help to make America a more caring and just society has fallen upon deaf ears. Sad.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Let's blame Pres. Obama for the 2-3% rate of inflation as well. How will the likes of Romney, Donald Trump, the Koch brothers, et al, maintain their wealth as inflation erodes their buying power? Guess Pres. Obama's pledge that "yes we can" help to make America a more caring and just society has fallen upon deaf ears. Sad.


If society had become either more caring or more just under President Obama, you might have a point.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> hardly "eliminating wealth"... :lmao:


Laugh if you will, gt, but don't hang around too long waiting for your crumbs to come trickling down to you anytime soon. With less at the top, there is less to go around. It is only fair that those who were able to attain great wealth be allowed to keep it as well. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If society had become either more caring or more just under President Obama, you might have a point.


I think that Pres. Obama helped to make America a more caring and just society, he just failed to help the wealthy attain greater wealth so their gain would slowly trickle down to the likes of gt and MacDoc. They will just have to wait their turn, I guess. C'est la vie. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> One thing is for sure and that is that the Republirat Constitutional right, to avoid encounters with protesters, will be protected no matter what the cost.


It's a matter of math, eMacMan. Two beats one .............. thus, the second amendment ("A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.") trumps the first amendment ( "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ")


----------



## groovetube

Paul Ryan?s speech in 3 words | Fox News

Wow. Considering the source, that's pretty damning.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Paul Ryan?s speech in 3 words | Fox News
> 
> Wow. Considering the source, that's pretty damning.


Every once in a while I get to thinking I may be a touch to cynical obit politicians. About that time another election rolls around with more than ample evidence to prove I am not nearly cynical enough.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Paul Ryan?s speech in 3 words | Fox News
> 
> Wow. Considering the source, that's pretty damning.


No way!!!!!!!!! That must have been a Faux Fox News website, not the REAL Fox News website.

"Ryan may have helped solve some of the likeability problems facing Romney, but ultimately by trying to deceive voters about basic facts and trying to distract voters from his own record, Ryan’s speech caused a much larger problem for himself and his running mate." 

Say it ain't so Joe - 8 Men Out - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No way!!!!!!!!! That must have been a Faux Fox News website, not the REAL Fox News website.


The FOX News web site features the work of some token "progressives."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The FOX News web site features the work of some token "progressives."


Well, then they deserve the title of Faux Fox News. The use of "token progressives" is just plain wrong. Why stray from the truth when you can get the straight party line, the RIGHT party line, with the like of Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Bret Baier, et al. Maybe this is an example of the "liberal media bias" that Sarah Palin was always harping about when she ran for VP????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, then they deserve the title of Faux Fox News. The use of "token progressives" is just plain wrong.


How can beauty be appreciated without an example of ugliness?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How can beauty be appreciated without an example of ugliness?


True, but I don't think that Mitt Romney wants to get into Hegelian dialectics with Pres. Obama. I hear that he is going to bring out an updated version of Reagan's "are you better off now than you were four years ago?". It worked in 1980, and might work today. Romney's handlers are warning him not to go off-script, but rather, just stick with the party line of half-truths and generalities, and he will do fine. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

yes they certainly did build it!


----------



## i-rui

^^ ha

so true.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, but I don't think that Mitt Romney wants to get into Hegelian dialectics with Pres. Obama. I hear that he is going to bring out an updated version of Reagan's "are you better off now than you were four years ago?". It worked in 1980, and might work today. Romney's handlers are warning him not to go off-script, but rather, just stick with the party line of half-truths and generalities, and he will do fine. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



If he sticks with "are you better off now than you were four years ago?" an honest answer will win Romney the election.

I'm quite fascinated to see Obama's natural pettiness boiling to the surface these days. Is this the man who was going to heal the planet and calm the rise of the oceans?


----------



## CubaMark

*A dire prediction from Michael Moore...*

*Michael Moore: Mitt Romney Will Win In November*



> "Mitt Romney is going to raise more money than Barack Obama. That should guarantee his victory," Moore told host Josh Zepps. "I think people should start to practice the words 'President Romney.' To assume that the other side are just a bunch of ignoramuses who are supported by people who believe that Adam and Eve rode on dinosaurs 6,000 years ago is to completely misjudge the opposition."


(HuffingtonPost)


----------



## Macfury

A delightful prediction from Michael Moore!


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> If he sticks with "are you better off now than you were four years ago?" an honest answer will win Romney the election.
> 
> I'm quite fascinated to see Obama's natural pettiness boiling to the surface these days. Is this the man who was going to heal the planet and calm the rise of the oceans?


Honest answer like are we better off than when America was shedding 750,000 jobs a month under Bush?

Hell yeah. Bring that on.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> A delightful prediction from Michael Moore!


Yep, MM is and always was an a------.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Yep, MM is and always was an a------.


Only the left could raise that guy to the stature of a icon...


----------



## groovetube

yeah like rush limbaugh is such a classy guy himself.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> yes they certainly did build it!


Oops .....................

Luckily, they shall be "eastwooding" all the way to the White House. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

after watching last night, one has to wonder about a party has to spend THAT much effort into making someone more 'human'.

The carefully scripted looks to the left, with the worried 'human look' Romney played over, and over, and over again actually started to look robotic.


----------



## groovetube

interesting as well, that most of the talk seems to be more around Eastwood, than Romney.

I thought Eastwood was classic Eastwood.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> after watching last night, one has to wonder about a party has to spend THAT much effort into making someone more 'human'.
> 
> The carefully scripted looks to the left, with the worried 'human look' Romney played over, and over, and over again actually started to look robotic.


He knew that he had to stick to the script that was written for him, and you try to "look human" without being worried under that circumstance. Actually, I would have to say that Rubio had the best speech of all. Should the Romney/Ryan dynasty fall in November, due to people looking at the reality of the facts, I can see Rubio as picking up the pieces. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> interesting as well, that most of the talk seems to be more around Eastwood, than Romney.
> 
> I thought Eastwood was classic Eastwood.


True, and it is great news for the Republicans. Now, the only thing that Pres. Obama can do to top that is to have a wooden dummy of Romney and do a ventriloquist act. Again, we shall see.

Of course, Pres. Obama can drone on and on about the reality of the situation facing American today, and even try to put forth the specifics about what he had done, and has tried to do to help the American people (policies and bills that were thwarted by the Republican controlled House of Reps), but who wants to hear that?


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> He knew that he had to stick to the script that was written for him, and you try to "look human" without being worried under that circumstance. Actually, I would have to say that Rubio had the best speech of all. Should the Romney/Ryan dynasty fall in November, due to people looking at the reality of the facts, I can see Rubio as picking up the pieces. We shall see.


I agree with you. Rubio was a great speaker, and I can see him destroying an opponent handily. You could well be correct there, if Romney fails, there's the next president right there. Though he should watch his record, especially voting for bills that axe jobs rather than create them.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I agree with you. Rubio was a great speaker, and I can see him destroying an opponent handily. You could well be correct there, if Romney fails, there's the next president right there. Though he should watch his record, especially voting for bills that axe jobs rather than create them.


Well, he had no specifics in his speech, which is part of the Republican strategy of generalities, but he is a fine speaker. He and Clint Eastwood seemed to overshadow Romney, and even Ryan overshadowed Romney. Still, Romney is the man and the Republicans either sink or swim with him. We shall see.

My biggest fear is a mass of voters who supported and voted for Pres. Obama back in 2004, facing election day with attitudes marked by complacency. If that happens, then Romney wins, and wins both sides of Congress ................. and then, watch out. :greedy:XX)


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> My biggest fear is a mass of voters who supported and voted for Pres. Obama back in 2004, facing election day with attitudes marked by complacency. If that happens, then Romney wins, and wins both sides of Congress ................. and then, watch out. :greedy:XX)


Worse than complacency--he disappointed them and many no longer support him.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Of course, Pres. Obama can drone on and on about the reality of the situation facing American today, and even try to put forth the specifics about what he had done, and has tried to do to help the American people (policies and bills that were thwarted by the Republican controlled House of Reps), but who wants to hear that?


This is weak sauce, Dr. G. Obama controlled everything for two years.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Worse than complacency--he disappointed them and many no longer support him.


We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is weak sauce, Dr. G. Obama controlled everything for two years.


Yes, and he got his health care plan through in that time. Now, the Congress (namely the House of Reps) is stalling any significant plans to improve the economy. This may be Pres. Obama's ace in the hole -- when voters see that he had specific plans to improve the economy, and the Republicans played politics with this effort in order to have a weaker economy. Again, we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, what are your thoughts about the Republicans making Ron Paul's campaign a mere afterthought/annoyance at the convention? I would love to see him choose to run as a third-party candidate, but this will not happen.


----------



## Dr.G.

"You cannot change the winds, but you can adjust your sails."


----------



## CubaMark

groovetube said:


> I thought Eastwood was classic Eastwood.


Were we watching the same speech?

I thought it quite a sad performance... sure's he's 82, but if it were anyone else but Clint, I'd have expected that to deteriorate into an angry old man experience. Clint's always classy - you could tell that his nature was to be somewhat diplomatic (referring to Obama as a "nice guy") but realized the crowd needed some blood (then bringing up negative advertising).

And the schtick "Make My Day" - entering caricature-land...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, and he got his health care plan through in that time. Now, the Congress (namely the House of Reps) is stalling any significant plans to improve the economy. This may be Pres. Obama's ace in the hole -- when voters see that he had specific plans to improve the economy, and the Republicans played politics with this effort in order to have a weaker economy. Again, we shall see.


Obama has more plans to put the country further in debt using "stimulus funds" borrowed from the Chinese. Which of Obama's significant plans were supposed to improve the economy without putting the country into a debt crisis?


----------



## MacDoc

Repuglies in full ugly mode....
and my bridge partner wonders why American's are a laughing stock around the world....



> *Exclusive: Inside Karl Rove's Billionaire Fundraiser*


Exclusive: Inside Karl Rove's Billionaire Fundraiser - Businessweek
best comment



> Jane Devin, Today 09:19 AM
> Stunning on so many levels. It's not their actions that keep them out of orange jump suits, it's their lawyers. Romney doesn't really matter, except that he's a good puppet for other corporate profiteers. After tying Obama's hands in every conceivable way, their plan is to show how he didn't keep his promises. Tweeted and FB'ed and hope more people will read, because this isn't about welfare, abortion, jobs, or even politics as usual. This election is about whether we have a government "for the people, by the people" or "for corporations, by corporations".


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Repuglies in full ugly mode....
> and my bridge partner wonders why American's are a laughing stock around the world....


As I recall, MacDoc, that you were thrilled to see President Obama elected--someone you could feel comfortable with as president of the United States. How do you feel about him now?


----------



## i-rui

groovetube said:


> I thought Eastwood was classic Eastwood.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


>


Yesterday's man rails at Eastwood:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yesterday's man rails at Eastwood:


Careful, Macfury, for "yesterday's man" may be tomorrow's man as well.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


>


Precisely. I'm not sure why anyone is up in arms about the guy. What did anyone expect??


----------



## i-rui

I like Clint. He's a great actor and under rated director. But he really did come off as a touch "out of it" last night.

also saw this :










lol


----------



## Dr.G.

To be honest, I thought it was an interesting item at the convention. It may come back to haunt Romney should he become president, in that the "are you better off now than you were when Pres. Romney took office" might not be felt by a majority of people in the US. Jeb Bush may feel that it is OK to let his brother off the hook for much of the economic mess that Pres. Obama faced when he took office, but I don't and certainly most economists do not either. 

I think that Romney may win so long as he remains vague about his five point plan (e.g., that he will create 12 million jobs). The federal government cannot create that many jobs, which is what Pres. Obama has been saying all along. Still, the line will be clearly drawn between the visions of these two men in helping those in need of true help. That is the measure of a real society. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

groovetube said:


> What did anyone expect??


...they were probably expecting Dirty Harry...


----------



## Dr.G.

Ooppps...................

The U.S. Labor Department, says there are 12.8 million unemployed people, not 23 million. Still, who argues with Clint Eastwood?????????


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> ...they were probably expecting Dirty Harry...


well, the guy is 82...


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Ooppps...................
> 
> The U.S. Labor Department, says there are 12.8 million unemployed people, not 23 million. Still, who argues with Clint Eastwood?????????


Given that true unemployment numbers are usually at least double the official number CE may have been fairly close.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Ooppps...................
> 
> The U.S. Labor Department, says there are 12.8 million unemployed people, not 23 million. Still, who argues with Clint Eastwood?????????


12.8 million on the unemployment rolls. 11 million have now given up all hope or passed on to welfare.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, the Republican controlled House of Representatives is partly to blame for the lack of real programs that would have created real jobs. Say what you want, but they played politics with the lives of millions of Americans.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, the Republican controlled House of Representatives is partly to blame for the lack of real programs that would have created real jobs. Say what you want, but they played politics with the lives of millions of Americans.


bingo. Something hardcore republican supporters will never cop to.

We've seen how well big corp tax cuts work up here. It's like watching lemmings...


----------



## groovetube

Go home and call 211???

Romney To Homeless Hurricane Victim: 'Go Home' | ThinkProgress


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Go home and call 211???
> 
> Romney To Homeless Hurricane Victim: 'Go Home' | ThinkProgress


Sort of like telling someone who is shoeless to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps".


----------



## bryanc

*Try the poll*

Not surprisingly, I wind up siding with Jill Stein on most things (93%), and Romney on nothing at all. Obama is an acceptable compromise, agreeing with me on about 75% of issues.

Have a go yourselves.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Not surprisingly, I wind up siding with Jill Stein on most things (93%), and Romney on nothing at all. Obama is an acceptable compromise, agreeing with me on about 75% of issues.
> 
> Have a go yourselves.


For me, it was Pres. Obama and Jill Stein with a 90% agreement ............ 25% with Mitt Romney.


----------



## eMacMan

None of the candidates agree with me on any of what I consider the three major issues.

In particular none are willing to make major cuts to US military spending, nor do they favour returning the $Trilliion$ that have been looted from Social Security funding.


----------



## MacDoc

> *
> How the GOP presidential candidate and his private equity firm staged an epic wealth grab, destroyed jobs – and stuck others with the bill*
> 
> BY MATT TAIBBI
> August 29, 2012 7:00 AM ET
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... l-20120829
> 
> The great criticism of Mitt Romney, from both sides of the aisle, has always been that he doesn't stand for anything. He's a flip-flopper, they say, a lightweight, a cardboard opportunist who'll say anything to get elected.
> 
> The critics couldn't be more wrong. Mitt Romney is no tissue-paper man. He's closer to being a revolutionary, a backward-world version of Che or Trotsky, with tweezed nostrils instead of a beard, a half-Windsor instead of a leather jerkin. His legendary flip-flops aren't the lies of a bumbling opportunist – they're the confident prevarications of a man untroubled by misleading the nonbeliever in pursuit of a single, all-consuming goal. Romney has a vision, and he's trying for something big: We've just been too slow to sort out what it is, just as we've been slow to grasp the roots of the radical economic changes that have swept the country in the last generation.
> 
> The incredible untold story of the 2012 election so far is that Romney's run has been a shimmering pearl of perfect political hypocrisy, which he's somehow managed to keep hidden, even with thousands of cameras following his every move. And the drama of this rhetorical high-wire act was ratcheted up even further when Romney chose his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin – like himself, a self-righteously anal, thin-lipped, Whitest Kids U Know penny pincher who'd be honored to tell Oliver Twist there's no more soup left. By selecting Ryan, Romney, the hard-charging, chameleonic champion of a disgraced-yet-defiant Wall Street, officially succeeded in moving the battle lines in the 2012 presidential race.


more

Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital | Politics News | Rolling Stone


----------



## Macfury

Love to see the lefties at _Rolling Stone_ quaking in their snake skin boots. Priceless!

To show you how far "the Stone" has fallen, read a headline on the same page regarding Pete Townshend's comments on the flavour of Mick Jagger's penis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Love to see the lefties at _Rolling Stone_ quaking in their snake skin boots. Priceless!


So true, Macfury. We in the 1% group feel we are entitled to all we earned, and now have a right to keep, lest the governments on all levels pick us clean like a Thanksgiving turkey. We need to regain our individualism and "believe in America", an America that will allow some to rise to our levels of wealth, influence, power and status. "To the victors go the spoils". God bless America.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So true, Macfury. We in the 1% group feel we are entitled to all we earned, and now have a right to keep, lest the governments on all levels pick us clean like a Thanksgiving turkey. We need to regain our individualism and "believe in America", an America that will allow some to rise to our levels of wealth, influence, power and status. "To the victors go the spoils". God bless America.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


The entire 1% idea is a failed narrative of Occupy Wall Street, There is an arbitrary dividing point between 1% and 99% in all fields of endeavour.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The entire 1% idea is a failed narrative of Occupy Wall Street, There is an arbitrary dividing point between 1% and 99% in all fields of endeavour.


True. Luckily, we are on the right side of that fence. Let the others envy our green pastures. God is on our side. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## MacDoc

Love it....










Barack to Clint...



> This seat's taken. ic.twitter.com/jgGZTb02


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Love it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barack to Clint...


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Don't you people read the thread? II posted that photo days ago. I found it remarkable as well, because it shows how Obama diminishes the office of the President. Clearly, Eastwood scored a big hit on his ego,


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....I found it remarkable as well, because it shows how Obama diminishes the office of the President....


MF, who writes your stuff? They're seriously slipping, dude.

Meanwhile... this photo blog from The Atlantic made me chuckle, thinking of all the times the Tea Partiers were up in arms about Obama using a teleprompter...


----------



## Macfury

They were laughing not because Obama used a Teleprompter, but because he begins to babble the moment it disappears... huge difference!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I found it remarkable as well, because it shows how Obama diminishes the office of the President.


You have said some strange things, Macfury, but this is one of the strangest. If you were born in the US you might have felt as I did that I might not live long enough to see an African-American freely elected as president. When I was in Georgia and volunteered for Jimmy Carter (former Gov. of GA), we would say to each other "Do you think America is ready for a president from Georgia?"

Obama "diminishing" the office of the presidency?????? He could have been as bad as Warren G. Harding, who I felt was the worst president in the 20th/21st century, and he would not deminish the office. The fact that he WON the election, in the USA, says something good about him and about the people of the US. He may lose in November, and he may see all that he did changed/deleted/ignored, but he still did something that many my age NEVER thought possible.

Say what you want about him, but please do NOT say that he deminished the office of the presidency.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Say what you want about him, but please do NOT say that he deminished the office of the presidency.



Using his bully pulpit to fire back at... Clint Eastwood??? Yes, this diminishes the office of the President.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Using his bully pulpit to fire back at... Clint Eastwood??? Yes, this diminishes the office of the President.


As Pres. Harry Truman, one of my favorite presidents, oftentimes said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> As Pres. Harry Truman, one of my favorite presidents, oftentimes said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".


Yes, he must get out of the kitchen!!


----------



## CubaMark

What, the Prez should just sit around, letting hollywood types go all sotto voce on 'em, putting the words "go %^&*( yourself" into his mouth?

I suspect if this was the DNC convention, and Al Franken did this to George Bush, that you'd be wailing from the rooftops.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, he must get out of the kitchen!!


No, YOU have to get out of the kitchen and let those elected to serve do their service to the people.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> What, the Prez should just sit around, letting hollywood types go all sotto voce on 'em, putting the words "go %^&*( yourself" into his mouth?
> 
> I suspect if this was the DNC convention, and Al Franken did this to George Bush, that you'd be wailing from the rooftops.


All too true, CM. Paix, mi amigo.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> What, the Prez should just sit around, letting hollywood types go all sotto voce on 'em, putting the words "go %^&*( yourself" into his mouth?
> 
> I suspect if this was the DNC convention, and Al Franken did this to George Bush, that you'd be wailing from the rooftops.


Indeed. The mewling wouldn't cease.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> What, the Prez should just sit around, letting hollywood types go all sotto voce on 'em, putting the words "go %^&*( yourself" into his mouth?
> 
> I suspect if this was the DNC convention, and Al Franken did this to George Bush, that you'd be wailing from the rooftops.


Why would it bother me? It's ridiculous stuff.

I think it's beneath the dignity of the office to respond to such things. Even George Bush said nothing when he was skewered by Stephen Colbert at the Washington Press Corp Bash.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, YOU have to get out of the kitchen and let those elected to serve do their service to the people.


I don't believe that President Obama is doing service to the people. It will take a long time to undo his mischief.


----------



## i-rui

MacDoc said:


> more
> 
> Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital | Politics News | Rolling Stone


thanks for posting that. i'm a big fan of Matt Taibbi's writing. Holds no punches.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> thanks for posting that. i'm a big fan of Matt Taibbi's writing. Holds no punches.


He holds no punches... except for anything that exudes an intoxicating lefty aroma.


----------



## i-rui

naw, he criticizes Clinton & Democrats in that very article.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> naw, he criticizes Clinton & Democrats in that very article.


Yes, whenever they stray from the leftist line-up of acceptable policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't believe that President Obama is doing service to the people. It will take a long time to undo his mischief.


Not so. It is much like what FDR had to do to clean up the mess left by Hoover. So, Pres. Obama is faced with a similar task re the situation left by Bush.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Using his bully pulpit to fire back at... Clint Eastwood??? Yes, this diminishes the office of the President.


(CNN) – President Barack Obama said in an interview published Sunday he took no offense at Clint Eastwood's prime-time address at the Republican National Convention, in which the legendary actor and director posed questions to an empty chair, which he said represented the Democratic incumbent.

"One thing about being president or running for president - if you're easily offended, you should probably choose another profession," Obama told USA 

CNN Political Ticker- All politics, all the time - CNN.com Blogs

Using humor at the "bully pulpit"??? What a strange new concept. 
FDR Discusses his Dog Fala - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Not so. It is much like what FDR had to do to clean up the mess left by Hoover. So, Pres. Obama is faced with a similar task re the situation left by Bush.


Now G, as you have said before, it's important that all American rally around the crusade to protect the rich and their low taxes. The majority of worker bees er, I mean regular Americans must shoulder the weight of the taxes, less services. The macfurys fight hard to crusade for the rich and the corporations, because he knows a lightly taxed rich man is a happy rich man. Perhaps, well after they're done cash hoarding all those tax cuts that are to create jobs, they can choose a few less bmws, perhaps a few less feet on the yachts, and break with Romney's tradition of streamlining companies and shedding unneeded worker bees. Oops working Americans.

Americans are just too greedy, they can no longer count on higher paying jobs, minimum wage is the new American dream! Get with the program G, or it'll be the reeducation camp for you.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Now G, as you have said before, it's important that all American rally around the crusade to protect the rich and their low taxes. The majority of worker bees er, I mean regular Americans must shoulder the weight of the taxes, less services. The macfurys fight hard to crusade for the rich and the corporations, because he knows a lightly taxed rich man is a happy rich man. Perhaps, well after they're done cash hoarding all those tax cuts that are to create jobs, they can choose a few less bmws, perhaps a few less feet on the yachts, and break with Romney's tradition of streamlining companies and shedding unneeded worker bees. Oops working Americans.
> 
> Americans are just too greedy, they can no longer count on higher paying jobs, minimum wage is the new American dream! Get with the program G, or it'll be the reeducation camp for you.


I am nobody's "worker bee", gt, and I shall fight for "equal pay for equal work". My faith in the rights of men and women shall help to make us strong. "From my cold dead hands" shall you take this faith from me. 

So, have a good Labor Day, mon ami. Paix.

Solidarity Forever (Pete Seeger) - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Now G, as you have said before, it's important that all American rally around the crusade to protect the rich and their low taxes. The majority of worker bees er, I mean regular Americans must shoulder the weight of the taxes, less services. The macfurys fight hard to crusade for the rich and the corporations, because he knows a lightly taxed rich man is a happy rich man. Perhaps, well after they're done cash hoarding all those tax cuts that are to create jobs, they can choose a few less bmws, perhaps a few less feet on the yachts, and break with Romney's tradition of streamlining companies and shedding unneeded worker bees. Oops working Americans.
> 
> Americans are just too greedy, they can no longer count on higher paying jobs, minimum wage is the new American dream! Get with the program G, or it'll be the reeducation camp for you.


You know, gt, it is worth recalling President Abraham Lincoln's words during the dark early days of the Civil War. "Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed," he told Congress in December 1861. "Labor is the superior of capital and deserves much the higher consideration,"

Today, the first Republican president's words would count as heresy in the GOP. But they are a sharp reminder that working men and women built America and fought its wars. They deserve, as Lincoln said, "the higher consideration." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> You know, gt, it is worth recalling President Abraham Lincoln's words during the dark early days of the Civil War. "Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed," he told Congress in December 1861. "Labor is the superior of capital and deserves much the higher consideration,"
> 
> Today, the first Republican president's words would count as heresy in the GOP. But they are a sharp reminder that working men and women built America and fought its wars. They deserve, as Lincoln said, "the higher consideration." Paix, mon ami.


It does explain both parties effort to thwart solid education for the nations children. Would a well educated populace vote for any of these bums or tolerate such shockingly obvious corruption as the Great Bankster Heist?


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> It does explain both parties effort to thwart solid education for the nations children. Would a well educated populace vote for any of these bums or tolerate such shockingly obvious corruption as the Great Bankster Heist?


Well, Pres. Obama, with his Race to the Top grants, Early Learning Challenge grants, student loan reforms, the new Community College to Career Fund, The Recovery Act (which supported roughly 300,000 education jobs), among other measures blocked in the Republican-controlled House of Reps, is doing his part to help educate the public.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not so. It is much like what FDR had to do to clean up the mess left by Hoover. So, Pres. Obama is faced with a similar task re the situation left by Bush.


I believe that blaming Bush for Obama's own malfeasance is one of the factors that is causing president' Obama's support to diminish. The President owns his own problems by the fourth year.

The policies of Hoover and FDR were very similar. Both large, interventionist governments who believed in managed economies and big government projects like the Hoover Dam and the TVA. I have no use for either of them,


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Using humor at the "bully pulpit"??? What a strange new concept.
> FDR Discusses his Dog Fala - YouTube


Nothing wrong with being humorous--although poor Barack Obama is not naturally gifted in this regard.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Pres. Obama, with his Race to the Top grants, Early Learning Challenge grants, student loan reforms, the new Community College to Career Fund, The Recovery Act (which supported roughly 300,000 education jobs), among other measures blocked in the Republican-controlled House of Reps, is doing his part to help educate the public.


We can only do so much to pay off the American Federation of Teachers each year before it is perceived as excessive vote buying. I was very critical of George Bush's massive increases in education spending--the largest single increase in any year--because it seemed to reward the poor results achieved among America's students, and has not resulted in any improvement in grades or academic standards.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe that blaming Bush for Obama's own malfeasance is one of the factors that is causing president' Obama's support to diminish. The President owns his own problems by the fourth year.
> 
> The policies of Hoover and FDR were very similar. Both large, interventionist governments who believed in managed economies and big government projects like the Hoover Dam and the TVA. I have no use for either of them,


Well, you may try to rewrite history, but I shall stick to the facts. This might be shaping up just like 1948. The 80th Congress was nicknamed the "Do Nothing Congress" by President Harry Truman. The Congress opposed many of the bills passed during the Franklin Roosevelt administration. They also opposed most of Truman's Fair Deal bills. Yet they passed many pro-business bills. During the 1948 election Truman campaigned as much against the "Do Nothing Congress" as against his formal opponent, Thomas Dewey. And we all remember the Chicago Tribune headlines the day after the election ..............

As for the Hoover Dam, you might want to ask the folks in the US southwest what they might want to use for electricity. The dam's generators provide power for public and private utilities in Nevada, Arizona, and California.

As for the TVA, having lived in the south, I was amazed at the number of people, none of who supported or voted for FDR, who spoke highly of the TVA. TVA's service area covers most of Tennessee, portions of Alabama, Mississippi, and Kentucky, and small parts of Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia. True, there were economic libertarians who believed the government should not participate in the electricity generation business, fearing government ownership would lead to the misuse of hydroelectric sites. Luckily, this was never the case. People were provided with electricity for the first time in their lives. I spent three weeks in Coy, Alabama, teaching at a Freedom School. We had no electricity or running water. I can only imagine what folks experienced with no electricity from the day they were born until the day they died.

So, you may have no use for either of these projects, but luckily, there are millions upon millions who benefited, and still benefit, from the electricity of these two projects.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one", namely you when it comes to these projects.

Spock Logic The Needs of the Many - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, you may try to rewrite history, but I shall stick to the facts. This might be shaping up just like 1948. The 80th Congress was nicknamed the "Do Nothing Congress" by President Harry Truman. The Congress opposed many of the bills passed during the Franklin Roosevelt administration. They also opposed most of Truman's Fair Deal bills. Yet they passed many pro-business bills. During the 1948 election Truman campaigned as much against the "Do Nothing Congress" as against his formal opponent, Thomas Dewey. And we all remember the Chicago Tribune headlines the day after the election ..............
> 
> As for the Hoover Dam, you might want to ask the folks in the US southwest what they might want to use for electricity. The dam's generators provide power for public and private utilities in Nevada, Arizona, and California.
> 
> As for the TVA, having lived in the south, I was amazed at the number of people, none of who supported or voted for FDR, who spoke highly of the TVA. TVA's service area covers most of Tennessee, portions of Alabama, Mississippi, and Kentucky, and small parts of Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia. True, there were economic libertarians who believed the government should not participate in the electricity generation business, fearing government ownership would lead to the misuse of hydroelectric sites. Luckily, this was never the case. People were provided with electricity for the first time in their lives. I spent three weeks in Coy, Alabama, teaching at a Freedom School. We had no electricity or running water. I can only imagine what folks experienced with no electricity from the day they were born until the day they died.
> 
> So, you may have no use for either of these projects, but luckily, there are millions upon millions who benefited, and still benefit, from the electricity of these two projects.
> 
> "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one", namely you when it comes to these projects.
> 
> Spock Logic The Needs of the Many - YouTube


There's no trick in finding beneficiaries of government largesse. However, my point was apparently well made--both presidents had similar regard for central planning.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nothing wrong with being humorous--although poor Barack Obama is not naturally gifted in this regard.


Says you ..................


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Says you ..................


Dogs are split politically:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dogs are split politically:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Wow, Bo had better not come campaigning with the President to that home. 

Of course, the voting here is split between voting for the President and staying home to sleep on election day.


----------



## Macfury

If they had opposable thumbs, they would do better to vote by mail...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If they had opposable thumbs, they would do better to vote by mail...


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Clint Eastwood Productions has rushed two new movies on to the scene, to be released just before Election Day -- "Dirty Chairy" and "Million Dollar Chair". I wonder if they had auditions for the chair to represent invisible Pres. Obama?


----------



## Macfury

I'm going to see _The Good, the Bad and the Settee_.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There's no trick in finding beneficiaries of government largesse. However, my point was apparently well made--both presidents had similar regard for central planning.


As Reagan was fond of saying, "There you go again." This "finding beneficiaries of government largesse", as you call it, helped millions upon millions of people improve the quality of their lives, provided jobs for people, provided power for industry which hired more people ............... that is money well spent. Sometimes central planning is a necessary element of the federal government when there is great need and the private sector is unable or unwilling to step forward.

Like it or not, we live in a society, either here or in the US, that cares for people. Yes, money is wasted on certain things (e.g., sending politicians to exotic foreign lands to see how their governments try to save money on political junkets), but there are times when money actually helps people who are unable to help themselves, especially when it comes to the fruits of centrally-planned major projects.

So, the next time you feel that bringing electricity to those who never had electricity, turn off all your electrical power for a week and then come back and tell me what life was like ................ then imagine having that for a lifetime.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> This "finding beneficiaries of government largesse", as you call it, helped millions upon millions of people improve the quality of their lives, provided jobs for people, provided power for industry which hired more people ............... that is money well spent. Sometimes central planning is a necessary element of the federal government when there is great need and the private sector is unable or unwilling to step forward.


This approach helped some while hurting others. It destroyed opportunity for some and created it for others. It took needed capital and redirected it inefficiently. It boosted salaries for some, while destroying the jobs of others. When the government picks winners, there will be winners, but it's nothing to crow about when it prolonged the suffering of the Great Depression by years.


----------



## bryanc

Our civilization requires many different types of infrastructure and/or services that historically, even the wealthiest companies couldn't have afforded to provide. So governments, with their ability to spread the costs over all the citizenry, and even deficit finance such projects if necessary, has handled these things.

I suspect MacFury and other Libertarians would argue that now we have corporations with even more monetary power than governments, so we should let these corporate behemoths do things like build (and own) the infrastructure of our civilization. But if things like the internet become privately owned, we'll see that profit-driven corporations don't necessarily make great stewards, nor do they act in the public interest. Recent history is full of examples like Enron, where government has ceded control of infrastructure to corporations, and inevitably, costs go up and the citizens suffer. I find it surprising that anyone would argue in favour of deregulation anymore, but apparently there are some who refuse to learn.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Our civilization requires many different types of infrastructure and/or services that historically, even the wealthiest companies couldn't have afforded to provide. So governments, with their ability to spread the costs over all the citizenry, and even deficit finance such projects if necessary, has handled these things.
> 
> I suspect MacFury and other Libertarians would argue that now we have corporations with even more monetary power than governments, so we should let these corporate behemoths do things like build (and own) the infrastructure of our civilization. But if things like the internet become privately owned, we'll see that profit-driven corporations don't necessarily make great stewards, nor do they act in the public interest. Recent history is full of examples like Enron, where government has ceded control of infrastructure to corporations, and inevitably, costs go up and the citizens suffer. I find it surprising that anyone would argue in favour of deregulation anymore, but apparently there are some who refuse to learn.


Not at all, However, the inefficiency with which FDR pursued these projects is the stuff of legend. Throw enough money at project and it will eventually emerge, regardless of how much damage you are doing to the economy as whole.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Our civilization requires many different types of infrastructure and/or services that historically, even the wealthiest companies couldn't have afforded to provide. So governments, with their ability to spread the costs over all the citizenry, and even deficit finance such projects if necessary, has handled these things.
> 
> I suspect MacFury and other Libertarians would argue that now we have corporations with even more monetary power than governments, so we should let these corporate behemoths do things like build (and own) the infrastructure of our civilization. But if things like the internet become privately owned, we'll see that profit-driven corporations don't necessarily make great stewards, nor do they act in the public interest. Recent history is full of examples like Enron, where government has ceded control of infrastructure to corporations, and inevitably, costs go up and the citizens suffer. I find it surprising that anyone would argue in favour of deregulation anymore, but apparently there are some who refuse to learn.


All valid points, bryanc. There comes a point when we have to realize that for certain things, governments, either at a federal, provincial/state, or municipal level, are ready,willing and able to provide needed services. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not at all, However, the inefficiency with which FDR pursued these projects is the stuff of legend. Throw enough money at project and it will eventually emerge, regardless of how much damage you are doing to the economy as whole.


Not true. Both projects were completed under budget. Even Barry Goldwater admitted that his position to end the TVA helped him to lose Tenn., Virginia and North Carolina in the 1964 presidential election.

One of my favorite quotes is by the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm going to see _The Good, the Bad and the Settee_.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting take on the "politics of the empty chair".

"The most credible criticism of Obama is that the deficit and debt have exploded under his watch. But even on this solid ground, the Politics of the Empty Chair creeps in, ignoring the fact that surpluses were turned into deficits under President George W. Bush and that the Romney-Ryan deficit reduction plan, such as it exists, could actually increase the deficit by prioritizing additional tax cuts and making military spending 4% of GDP. 

The Politics of the Empty Chair allows Paul Ryan to criticize Obama for ignoring the recommendations of the Bowles-Simpson Commission, while conveniently ignoring the fact that he himself voted against the Bowles-Simpson commission. No one talks back when you're debating an empty chair."

Politics of Clint Eastwood's empty chair - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Obama will have his chance to fill a chair during the televised presidential debate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama will have his chance to fill a chair during the televised presidential debate.


I thought that they stood at podiums?  Again, get your facts straight, mon mai.


----------



## Dr.G.

gt, I think you might like these quotes. Paix, mon ami.

The "Golden Rule" or ethic of reciprocity:
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

The "Golden Rule" for the wealthy:
"He who has the most gold, rules."


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> gt, I think you might like these quotes. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> The "Golden Rule" or ethic of reciprocity:
> "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
> 
> The "Golden Rule" for the wealthy:
> "*He who has the most gold, rules.*"


That is, until he gets too greedy and controlling, and that well armed to the teeth population decides revolution is the only answer since voting no longer works...

A woman speaks out on Ann Romney's we love women nonsense. 
A letter to Mrs. Romney | ThinkBannedThoughts Blog


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> That is, until he gets too greedy and controlling, and that well armed to the teeth population decides revolution is the only answer since voting no longer works...
> 
> A woman speaks out on Ann Romney's we love women nonsense.
> A letter to Mrs. Romney | ThinkBannedThoughts Blog


Sadly, all too true, gt, if history teaches us anything. 2013 shall be the year of the food riots around the world. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

lemmings...


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> lemmings...


Not sure what you mean, gt.


----------



## groovetube

Well it seems to me, a lot of people continually vote for the parties that dupe them into believing that of we don't hand over more money and power to corporations and the rich, we'll have less money, and power.

Funny that.


----------



## CubaMark

_*One last swat of the piñata before the DNC convention hilarity ensues...*_










For those who don't get the reference...




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.





(Every Which Way But Loose)


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well it seems to me, a lot of people continually vote for the parties that dupe them into believing that of we don't hand over more money and power to corporations and the rich, we'll have less money, and power.
> 
> Funny that.


I see. Still, I vote my conscience each time, be it here in Canada or in the US.


----------



## bryanc

*Sorry, this is a couple of weeks old but I've been busy so I missed it...*


----------



## Macfury

Oh... my... goodness... that is an unfunny cartoon. The Internet has really lowered the bar on cartooning talent.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Oh... my... goodness... that is an unfunny cartoon. The Internet has really lowered the bar on cartooning talent.


You might want to get your sense of humour checked; you don't seem to find anything funny. Maybe it's just that most cartoonists are "lefties" from your perspective (not to mention most of the artists, writers, scientists, and other creatives).


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You might want to get your sense of humour checked; you don't seem to find anything funny. Maybe it's just that most cartoonists are "lefties" from your perspective (not to mention most of the artists, writers, scientists, and other creatives).


I laugh at plenty of humour, on all sides of the political spectrum. However, it appears that most people simply find things funny based on whether it skewers the appropriate subject, regardless of any particular talent demonstrated. It reminds me of librarians who slavishly post all cartoon panels involving librarians. 

A little effort please!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> A little effort please!


Alright, it's not a cartoon, but here's some good comic writing for ya:



Bill Maher said:


> [WRT Republicans] How do they get away with it? They know that, because we're already such a religious country, our minds are primed for magical, fantasy thinking. The gullibility comes factory-installed. They've learned that you appeal not to an American's head, but to his gut -- it's a much bigger target. But here's the problem: life is complicated. I mean, I know we know some things for sure, like why Jesus put us here on Earth: to watch Here Comes Honey Boo Boo on a 50-inch TV screen. But what about the Chinese slaves who made the TV? What about carbon from the coal that generated the electricity? What about the Walmart where we bought it, where the workers don't have health insurance? What about racism, or the oceans turning into nail polish remover? The grown-up answer is: identify problems scientifically, prioritize and solve. The Republican answer is: there isn't a problem. And anyone who tells you different is a liar who hates America. We don't have to make hard choices. We just have to ignore the science and the math -- that's why God gave us values.


----------



## Macfury

Maher plays only to his audience which has encouraged him to be a lazy comic . Will Durst made me laugh with this:



> Ryan was universally hailed as a bold choice. Yeah, well, maybe, but bold is not always synonymous with good. Whiskey for breakfast is a bold choice. Spun glass underwear is bold. Forehead dragon tattoos. Passing an 18 wheeler on a blind curve doing 80 in the rain. Incredibly bold. Not necessarily smart.
> 
> Another white male Christian conservative. That is bold. But only when compared to absolutely anything else.


----------



## groovetube

I don't think I've ever seen you chuckle at even one cartoon or cartoon written by a... 'leftie'.


----------



## groovetube

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama? - Forbes

This article was mentioned in conversation with a friend, I hadn't seen it. It's rather interesting that despite the constant repeating of republican talking points about Obama's spending, that a right wing magazine would this to say.


----------



## groovetube

Well. Bill CLinton just knocked it right out of the park.

Obama has his work cut out for him tomorrow. I guess we'll see if he really is the bad speaker so dependant on tele-prompters tomorrow night.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well. Bill CLinton just knocked it right out of the park.
> 
> Obama has his work cut out for him tomorrow. I guess we'll see if he really is the bad speaker so dependant on tele-prompters tomorrow night.


Amen, brother. I am sure that we shall hear the anti-opinion that feels that there is nothing anyone could say anything supportive of Pres. Obama, but after listening to former Pres. Clinton, if I was an independent or a liberal Republican voter I would be voting for Pres. Obama. An excellent speech by BC.

Yes, Pres. Obama has his work cut out for him, but he is truly up to the task. Paix, mon ami.

Excelsior.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well. Bill CLinton just knocked it right out of the park.
> 
> Obama has his work cut out for him tomorrow. I guess we'll see if he really is the bad speaker so dependant on tele-prompters tomorrow night.


Here is an interesting article on this very matter.

Now it's up to Obama - CNN.com


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Amen, brother. I am sure that we shall hear the anti-opinion that feels that there is nothing anyone could say anything supportive of Pres. Obama, but after listening to former Pres. Clinton, if I was an independent or a liberal Republican voter I would be voting for Pres. Obama. An excellent speech by BC.
> 
> Yes, Pres. Obama has his work cut out for him, but he is truly up to the task. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Excelsior.


Oh I'm sure -someone- will hate it. But even many republicans have agreed it was a really good speech, one of the best Clinton has ever given since leaving office.

He ripped a huge hole right through the republicans (non) platform. Another thing I've noticed, the dems seem to have far more substance and details than the republicans. The RNC seemed far more on fluff and the american dream than offering any real specifics.


----------



## groovetube

oh dear god. We will be sentenced to a thousand years, of darkness if we vote democrat!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI-JZTzYUQY


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Amen, brother. I am sure that we shall hear the anti-opinion that feels that there is nothing anyone could say anything supportive of Pres. Obama, but after listening to former Pres. Clinton, if I was an independent or a liberal Republican voter I would be voting for Pres. Obama. An excellent speech by BC.
> 
> Yes, Pres. Obama has his work cut out for him, but he is truly up to the task. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Excelsior.


I believe most Democrats were grateful that he didn't cut Obama a new one on stage--thus a success, in their estimation.


----------



## groovetube

like, that was going to happen. :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe most Democrats were grateful that he didn't cut Obama a new one on stage--thus a success, in their estimation.


Well, as Dylan once said, "Nothing succeeds like success". Hopefully, success will come in November for Pres. Obama, and then he shall be able to finish the job he started four years ago. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Question for you, and based last nights speech by Clinton, if Will Bill or the "W" had the power to run again do you think they would get re-elected, and which one ............ my bet would be on the "W".....


----------



## groovetube

W? Really?? The guy that completely destroyed the American economy?

They deserve it if they were to vote that disaster of a president in again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Question for you, and based last nights speech by Clinton, if Will Bill or the "W" had the power to run again do you think they would get re-elected, and which one ............ my bet would be on the "W".....


 No, I totally disagree with you on this point. I think that if Bill Clinton could run again, there would be no one the Republicans could run against him that could beat him. As for "W", other than for his brother Jeb mentioning him, the younger Bush president was terra incognita. 

So, I would take your bet and give you the odds.


----------



## Dr.G.

Not specifically related, but I would love to see Bill Murray in "Hyde Park on the Hudson". 

Hyde Park on Hudson Official Trailer #1 (2012) - Bill Murray Movie HD - YouTube


----------



## Rps

Groove, the U.S. is desperate for "leadership", and they think that Obama can"t deliver. To me Bush was a leader ..... I didn't like his policies ( or lack of them ) but his "if you don't like me vote me out" attitude is what they are looking for.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Question for you, and based last nights speech by Clinton, if Will Bill or the "W" had the power to run again do you think they would get re-elected, and which one ............ my bet would be on the "W".....


Clinton would win for sure. In fact, I'm sure the stark demonstrable difference between Obama and Bill Clinton will go hard on Obama.


----------



## Rps

Marc if you are going to bring reason into a political discussion about U.S. Politics well .........


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc if you are going to bring reason into a political discussion about U.S. Politics well .........


"Mission accomplished". 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

yeah there's no way W would win against Clinton. Not a chance.

Obama has his work cut out for him. He is well known to be a great speaker, despite a few who, simply don't like him who'll say anything negative regardless of whether it's actually true or not. But we'll see first hand in less than 7 hours from now.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> yeah there's no way W would win against Clinton. Not a chance.
> 
> Obama has his work cut out for him. He is well known to be a great speaker, despite a few who, simply don't like him who'll say anything negative regardless of whether it's actually true or not. But we'll see first hand in less than 7 hours from now.


Yes, we shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

tptptptp

Look what the Obama campaign is up to now. Have they no shame? Haven't they harmed a poor, innocent man enough?? This is the same party that brought us the Watergate scandal (if there was no George McGovern there would have been no break in) then they bring us the Contra affair (That scandal began as an operation to free seven American hostages being held by a group with Iranian ties connected to the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution. It was planned that Israel would ship weapons to Iran, and then the U.S. would resupply Israel and receive the Israeli payment. So, if Pres. Truman, a Democrat had not been the first leader to recognize the State of Israel, there would have been no scandal for Reagan). Then, of course, there were the "weapons of mass destruction" (atomic weapons were developed and used under Democratic administrations). 

So, the Democrats are behind all this and they should be ashamed. What sorts of lies on TV can they buy with $1 million worth of the online currency Bitcoins??????

Group claiming to have Romney tax records threatens to leak them - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Great, now Obamacare is being changed to "Obama Cares". More government money will be going to help children, the sick and aged, people with disabilities, etc, etc, etc. Just what we need .......... more government wasted tax dollars on helping people. Add to that the billions that will be spent upon items ranging from student loans for college to fixing up an crumbling infrastructure, on and on and on. When are they going to start saving for a "rainy day", or helping the battered taxpayer??? 

Where does it say "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity ..." by using tax dollars????

Yes, the system is rigged against those with money and who wish to keep that money.


----------



## Dr.G.

Have to admit that watching Gabby Gifford lead the Pledge of Allegience was an inspirational, touching and tearful moment.


----------



## Rps

Is it just me or is all this election hype getting out of hand? Living in Windsor the ads we see on U.S. OTA broadcasts are brutal ... they are so biased and full of half-truths ... it is almost an art form. I really think the U.S. needs some rules on this stuff. I really like the fact that the person running has to state that they approve the ads, but the lobby groups and fear mongering is wild. I think lobby groups should be outlawed, or at least the benefactor of the lobby has to admit it and approve the ad .... similar to the election ads. But what I see is two parties who have become ideologically fragmented .... I think the U.S. needs a third party. They need a party of Red-Democrats or Blue-Republicans .... but some how if their system is to work for the people and be by the people, then the people need to have a representative voice .... and right now, I'm just not seeing it.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Is it just me or is all this election hype getting out of hand? Living in Windsor the ads we see on U.S. OTA broadcasts are brutal ... they are so biased and full of half-truths ... it is almost an art form. I really think the U.S. needs some rules on this stuff. I really like the fact that the person running has to state that they approve the ads, but the lobby groups and fear mongering is wild. I think lobby groups should be outlawed, or at least the benefactor of the lobby has to admit it and approve the ad .... similar to the election ads. But what I see is two parties who have become ideologically fragmented .... I think the U.S. needs a third party. They need a party of Red-Democrats or Blue-Republicans .... but some how if their system is to work for the people and be by the people, then the people need to have a representative voice .... and right now, I'm just not seeing it.


I enjoy that showmanship and hype. It's the wildest form of comedy. 

However, both of the conventions have been mawkish disgraces, short on policy and big on gushy emotion. That anyone could watch the political version of _American Idol _ and take it seriously is beyond me. The Clinton speech was as embarrassing as any of the Republican speeches.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Have to admit that watching Gabby Gifford lead the Pledge of Allegience was an inspirational, touching and tearful moment.


It was a pretty inspirational moment. Great to see she has come this far from such a tragedy.


----------



## groovetube

probably one or two really disappointed that Biden didn't bomb of gaffe.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It was a pretty inspirational moment. Great to see she has come this far from such a tragedy.


Very true. :clap::clap::clap: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> probably one or two really disappointed that Biden didn't bomb of gaffe.


True. This was one of his best speeches that I have heard him make in the past ten years. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Obama was able to lay out a clear choice in his acceptance speech last night. It started off slowly, and then gained pace. It was not one of his best, but he did get the job done. There is truly a clear choice in this election, almost as much as in 1964. America truly is at a crossroads, and, hopefully, a majority of Americans will take the path proposed by Pres. Obama. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

"America, I never said this journey would be easy, and I won't promise that now," he said, at the tail end of a speech that put a spotlight on struggle. "Yes, our path is harder -- but it leads to a better place." Amen, Brother Barack.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Lot's of time left and many things are possible but it looks like Obama will be safely re-elected. The Democrats look significantly better prepared for the main event. The speeches over the past couple of days were stellar.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Lot's of time left and many things are possible but it looks like Obama will be safely re-elected. The Democrats look significantly better prepared for the main event. The speeches over the past couple of days were stellar.


I strongly agree with your comments, jt. Let us all hope you are correct. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

The dems convention was far, far better than the republicans.

The republicans spent more time licking their own behinds and talking about what humble human beings they were, and really, gave pretty much zero as to what they are actually going to do. The democrats while also pontificating, offered specifics, and as you said G gave a clear picture of the differences.

I don't know if that was Obama's best speech, but it more than did the trick, and he was more than helped by Biden's best of his career, and of course Clinton knocked it out of the park. I can see how republicans would be surly about clinton...

I think it's a real lack of imagination on the republican strategist's part that they chose to steal and mirror Ronald Reagan's 'are you better of today than you were 4 years ago. What a huge, huge blunder on their part, and they're are going to pay for it I think.


----------



## jimbotelecom

groovetube said:


> I think it's a real lack of imagination on the republican strategist's part that they chose to steal and mirror Ronald Reagan's 'are you better of today than you were 4 years ago. What a huge, huge blunder on their part, and they're are going to pay for it I think.


I like it. Anything to bring back memories of Bush II is a great thing.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The dems convention was far, far better than the republicans.
> 
> The republicans spent more time licking their own behinds and talking about what humble human beings they were, and really, gave pretty much zero as to what they are actually going to do. The democrats while also pontificating, offered specifics, and as you said G gave a clear picture of the differences.
> 
> I don't know if that was Obama's best speech, but it more than did the trick, and he was more than helped by Biden's best of his career, and of course Clinton knocked it out of the park. I can see how republicans would be surly about clinton...
> 
> I think it's a real lack of imagination on the republican strategist's part that they chose to steal and mirror Ronald Reagan's 'are you better of today than you were 4 years ago. What a huge, huge blunder on their part, and they're are going to pay for it I think.


We shall see, gt, we shall see. I hope they do "pay for it", but it is still 60 days until election day and anything can happen. Paix, mon ami.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And now, for something completely different ................... we hear from the nay-sayers who oppose Pres. Obama. Take it away ................


----------



## groovetube

I agree. The one thing the republicans know, is just lie your face off, and people will believe you.

Disillusioned Obama Supporter In Romney Ad Is Actually GOP Staffer | TPM2012

what they couldn't find a disillusioned Obama supporter for real???


----------



## Macfury

The Democrat convention and speeches appear stellar to Democrats. There's a lot of mistaken perception of excellence, depending on one's political leanings. 

Obama's speech was a fizzling denouement to a sad partisan spectacle.


----------



## Rps

Let's remember that they were speaking at a convention, while Biden did a good job continuibg the love fest ( it was one of his best in a long time ) Obama's was a clear case of getting to maybe ..... Good but not great. His undoing will be the job numbers that come out today, if they are good he will be on even ground, if poor look out ...... As much as I like the man he has been short on selling his accomplishments ...... To do it now during an election year is just campaigning ..... I think he will be a one termer ....... And G_d help them if the if Mit and the boys take office.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> There's a lot of mistaken perception of excellence, depending on one's political leanings.
> 
> Obama's speech was a fizzling denouement to a sad partisan spectacle.


... says the most extremely partisan poster in the forum.

The irony is delicious.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> ... says the most extremely partisan poster in the forum.
> 
> The irony is delicious.


.
Have you followed the thread? I said both conventions were ridiculous. Read before you spout off.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Let's remember that they were speaking at a convention, while Biden did a good job continuibg the love fest ( it was one of his best in a long time ) Obama's was a clear case of getting to maybe ..... Good but not great. His undoing will be the job numbers that come out today, if they are good he will be on even ground, if poor look out ...... As much as I like the man he has been short on selling his accomplishments ...... To do it now during an election year is just campaigning ..... I think he will be a one termer ....... And G_d help them if the if Mit and the boys take office.


8.1%, but as widely reported, only because a large number of the unemployed have stopped looking for work. Since Obama took office, almost every unemployment number reported has been "revised upward" a few days later, so expect 8.2% by next week.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Democrat convention and speeches appear stellar to Democrats. There's a lot of mistaken perception of excellence, depending on one's political leanings.
> 
> Obama's speech was a fizzling denouement to a sad partisan spectacle.


And so it begins ...................


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Let's remember that they were speaking at a convention, while Biden did a good job continuibg the love fest ( it was one of his best in a long time ) Obama's was a clear case of getting to maybe ..... Good but not great. His undoing will be the job numbers that come out today, if they are good he will be on even ground, if poor look out ...... As much as I like the man he has been short on selling his accomplishments ...... To do it now during an election year is just campaigning ..... I think he will be a one termer ....... And G_d help them if the if Mit and the boys take office.


Well, you have to take a stand for one or the other. Which side are you on??? Paix, mon ami.

Which Side Are You On - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Pete Seeger - This Land is Your Land - YouTube

Let us hope that the words are again true this election. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, the land belongs to the people--not the government.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Yes, the land belongs to the people--not the government.


Nope it has long since become Government of the People, by the Corporations and for the Corporations.

Only difference is the Republicons take pride in selling the People "Down de ribber"; Whereas the Demorats are still very vaguely aware that they should be ashamed of themselves, but still let those monster contributions from the Mega Banksters ease their conscience into a coma.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, the land belongs to the people--not the government.


"... and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> ... says the most extremely partisan poster in the forum.
> 
> The irony is delicious.


ha ha. Yeah.

I don't think that speech was Obama's best, but that attitude is just predictable. And tiresome.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ha ha. Yeah.
> 
> I don't think that speech was Obama's best, but that attitude is just predictable. And tiresome.


True, Pres. Obama has given better speeches, but he got the job done last night.


----------



## Macfury

I hold President Obama to his original promise: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> Well, you have to take a stand for one or the other. Which side are you on??? Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Which Side Are You On - YouTube


I personally enjoy the version that you linked to, performed by Pete Seeger

I came across this version of "Which Side Are You On" by Ani DiFranco that may be more apropos to this discussion and the question you asked. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnFfg_u9wQo


----------



## Macfury

Always hard to decide which side I'm on in these cases. Both sides generally seem out of whack.

The longest night I ever spent was listening to a live concert by Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie singing songs of the Union.


----------



## groovetube

If anyone thought that this could be 'done in 3 years', they believe in unicorns and floating fairies too.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I hold President Obama to his original promise: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”


If he said this, it was not a wise comment. Still, the problems he faced were somewhat less than what FDR faced in 1933. So, I shall cut Pres. Obama a bit of slack.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> If anyone thought that this could be 'done in 3 years', they believe in unicorns and floating fairies too.


Not sure what McCain would have done by this time in his administration, especially with the Tea Party breathing down his neck.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Not sure what McCain would have done by this time in his administration, especially with the Tea Party breathing down his neck.


Not much different than what Romney is going to do if he becomes president.

It could be a rough decade for Americans.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Not much different than what Romney is going to do if he becomes president.
> 
> It could be a rough decade for Americans.


True, but let us hope that Pres. Obama is reelected. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

I saw today as Romney belly ached about how incomes haven't gone up.

Isn't he the king, of blowing out companies and putting everyone out of work, so that they are forced to take lower paying jobs?

Under Romney, we're going to see a whole lot more of that. And all those donors and big corps are rubbing their hands at those who'll be duped into electing someone who'll help ensure a cheaper labour force.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not sure what McCain would have done by this time in his administration, especially with the Tea Party breathing down his neck.


If he had the tEa Party breathing down his neck, the U.S. would be in full recovery mode. Had he governed as McCain, the outcome would have been only slightly better than Obama's.


----------



## groovetube

Yeah we've already seen how great right wing policies have worked. More than once I might add. A more extreme version is the new and improved edition?

It'd be interesting to see examples of this in action.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If he had the tEa Party breathing down his neck, the U.S. would be in full recovery mode. Had he governed as McCain, the outcome would have been only slightly better than Obama's.


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Right!!! And if you buy that "party line", I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I saw today as Romney belly ached about how incomes haven't gone up.
> 
> Isn't he the king, of blowing out companies and putting everyone out of work, so that they are forced to take lower paying jobs?
> 
> Under Romney, we're going to see a whole lot more of that. And all those donors and big corps are rubbing their hands at those who'll be duped into electing someone who'll help ensure a cheaper labour force.


Sadly, all too true, gt. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

we've seen how well the further right and their promises of job creation when we give the rich tax cuts works up here with Harper.

A big fat zero here.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Always hard to decide which side I'm on in these cases. Both sides generally seem out of whack.


I'll certainly grant you that both sides have issues that need more and better thought put into them, and that they're both carrying parasites and beholding to SuperPACs and other special interests. But it's clear to me, and to almost everyone outside of the US that the Republicans are completely divorced from reality, and while the Democrats may be far from the ideal, they're clearly the lesser of two evils in this election.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I'll certainly grant you that both sides have issues that need more and better thought put into them, and that they're both carrying parasites and beholding to SuperPACs and other special interests. But it's clear to me, and to almost everyone outside of the US that the Republicans are completely divorced from reality, and while the Democrats may be far from the ideal, they're clearly the lesser of two evils in this election.


Well, bryanc, while I don't feel that all "Republicans are completely divorced from reality", nor are the Democrats the ideal party on all fronts, but given a choice between the two presidential candidates, I strongly support Pres. Obama. I know that as soon as I say that America will be better off with Pres. Obama reelected the nay sayers shall come forth with shock and horror (sort of like a knee-jerk reaction), but this is how I feel. Would I have liked to have seen more accomplished by Pres. Obama in his first term? Yes. Do I think that he will do more to help improve the lives of average Americans in a second term? Yes. Is Romney the answer to the various problems, both foreign and domestic, that hang over the US? No.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

This election I think is about far more than just, the economy and jobs.

Even though the republicans, would dearly love to make it al bout one thing. Seems rather one dimensional to me.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> This election I think is about far more than just, the economy and jobs.
> 
> Even though the republicans, would dearly love to make it al bout one thing. Seems rather one dimensional to me.


True. Should Romney win, the changes to the social fabric and the environment of America will be changed, and not in a positive manner. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Preaching from the choir, Dr. G!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Preaching from the choir, Dr. G!


Amen, Brother Macfury. Shall we gather at the river and sing the praises of Pres. Obama? Paix, mon ami.

Hymn - "Shall We Gather at the River" - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

The beautiful, the beautiful Potomac?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The beautiful, the beautiful Potomac?


Excelsior!! Hopefully, a re-elected Pres. Obama shall prove to be a bridge over the troubled waters that splash upon the shores of America. We shall see.

Bridge Over Troubled Water (Live) by Simon & Garfunkel - YouTube

John P Sousa The Stars and Stripes forever New York Philharmonic, Bernstein - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The beautiful, the beautiful Potomac?


Meet you down by the riverside, Macfury, and we can shake hands and agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.

Down By The Riverside - Pete Seeger [7/24] [1963] - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Preaching from the choir, Dr. G!


"If you turn away now - if you buy into the cynicism that the change we fought for isn't possible, well, change will not happen," Obama said, depicting a scenario in which special interests and conservative politicians run Washington and the country. "... Only you can make sure that doesn't happen. Only you have the power to move us forward."

Amen, Brother Barack. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

I believe that Barack Obama can bring change--however, transforming the United States of America into a moribund nation with the limited aspirations of European-style socialism is not a positive change.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe that Barack Obama can bring change--however, transforming the United States of America into a moribund nation with the limited aspirations of European-style socialism is not a positive change.


“America is NOT in decline. I’ve got news for Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan, it has never, never, ever, been a good bet to bet against the American people.”
Vice President Joe Biden

Joe Biden: Never bet against the American people - 2012 Democratic National Convention

The same goes for you, Macfury. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I believe that Barack Obama can bring change--however, transforming the United States of America into a moribund nation with the limited aspirations of European-style socialism is not a positive change.


Because high living standards, health, literacy, low crime rates, environmental sustainability and culture aren't your aspirations.


----------



## groovetube

A country that focuses on people?

What a horrendous idea!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> A country that focuses on people?
> 
> What a horrendous idea!




"Power to the people" ......................... the people in power. "The business of America is business."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> “America is NOT in decline. I’ve got news for Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan, it has never, never, ever, been a good bet to bet against the American people.”
> Vice President Joe Biden


I won't bet against the American people, but I'll bet against Joe Biden and his emphasis on the primacy of government any day.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Power to the people" ......................... the people in power. "The business of America is business."


I think we have seen the fruition of the Obama ideal in present-day Greece.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I won't bet against the American people, but I'll bet against Joe Biden and his emphasis on the primacy of government any day.


To bet against Joe Biden is to be against the government of the United States of America.  You lose and the people win. :clap:

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL by Ray Charles - YouTube

What a wonderful world - LOUIS ARMSTRONG. - YouTube

John Lennon - Imagine - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think we have seen the fruition of the Obama ideal in present-day Greece.


Not even close, ye of little faith. Red, white and blue all the way, mon ami. Excelsior and semper fidelis.

Stars and Stripes Forever - John Philip Sousa - YouTube

Semper Fidelis - YouTube


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I think we have seen the fruition of the Obama ideal in present-day Greece.


The US's per capita debt is _already_ bigger than Greece's, and has been since before Obama's time. Although, when you calculate it as a function of GDP, Greece's debt is higher than the US's, but then so is Singapore's, and Japan's is even higher than Greece's. If you want to find countries with low debt to GDP ratios, look at those no-good socialist democracies like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Venezuela, etc. (not to mention communist countries like Cuba and China). Let's hear it for the unregulated free market; what a way to ruin an economy!

Greece's problem is that they've got too many wealthy people evading enforcement of their tax laws; consequently, the few that do pay taxes are paying far more than their share, which encourages them to cheat, exacerbating the problem.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Greece's problem is that they've got too many wealthy people evading enforcement of their tax laws; consequently, the few that do pay taxes are paying far more than their share, which encourages them to cheat, exacerbating the problem.


Seriously?!!!! Well then all they need to do is double their tax rate... right?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> To bet against Joe Biden is to be against the government of the United States of America.


Yes, it is.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Well then all they need to do is double their tax rate... right?


If this were a trivial problem to solve, it would certainly have been solved already. However, it seems clear that the solution will have to involve some mechanism that gets the wealthy people and corporations paying their fair share of taxes, combined with some tax relief for the less economically fortunate. However, given the culture of corruption and understandable skepticism with which the Greek people view their own government/banks and those of the EU, I don't see how to effect the necessary changes. More bailouts for the current criminals is not going to help, but neither will 'austerity' that only affects the people who've been paying their taxes.

I'm not certain there is a route from where we are to a sustainable Greece that doesn't pass through some sort of economic and political purgatory. I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see a realistic solution.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, it is.


Well then, you lose. As they say in Vegas, "Never bet against the house in blackjack." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bill Clinton was right, "It's the math, stupid." 

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan won't answer the most basic questions - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> If this were a trivial problem to solve, it would certainly have been solved already. However, it seems clear that the solution will have to involve some mechanism that gets the wealthy people and corporations paying their fair share of taxes, combined with some tax relief for the less economically fortunate. However, given the culture of corruption and understandable skepticism with which the Greek people view their own government/banks and those of the EU, I don't see how to effect the necessary changes. More bailouts for the current criminals is not going to help, but neither will 'austerity' that only affects the people who've been paying their taxes.
> 
> I'm not certain there is a route from where we are to a sustainable Greece that doesn't pass through some sort of economic and political purgatory. I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see a realistic solution.


I note that you did not mention the unaffordable benefits packages handed out to Greek citizens.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Bill Clinton was right, "It's the math, stupid."
> 
> Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan won't answer the most basic questions - YouTube


 $10 trillion debt over 230 years
+$6-trillion debt over 3.75 years =
======================
Largest debt run-up in U.S. history


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> $10 trillion debt over 230 years
> +$6-trillion debt over 3.75 years =
> ======================
> Largest debt run-up in U.S. history


Right on, Brother Macfury. I still want to know what became of the $700 billion given to some banks and securities companies at the close of the Bush administration???


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Largest debt run-up in U.S. history


Sorry, the slope of the debt growth was maximal during Bush's second term. Obama hasn't slowed it much, but it's not growing as fast as it was under Bush II. Dontcha just hate it when facts get in the way of a good ideological rant?


----------



## groovetube

Yes we do tend to conveniently forget that Obama inherited a pretty sizeable spending bill.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> Yes we do tend to conveniently forget that Obama inherited a pretty sizeable spending bill.


When you look at where that graph spikes up you can figure out what the causes were:

WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, then things are getting better for a while, then Reagan gets in and Reagonomics starts funnelling public money into the private coffers of the 1%ers, Clinton manages to reverse that until Bush II gets in, and the debt really starts to skyrocket as Bush's "mission is accomplished."

If Obama manages another term, he may get it levelled off, but it'll take decades to get it back to where Clinton had it. If Romney gets in, I expect we'll see unprecedented growth of the debt to finance a war on Iran.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. I still want to know what became of the $700 billion given to some banks and securities companies at the close of the Bush administration???


I certainly never supported the bailout for which Obama voted. However, this is the state of it:

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Sorry, the slope of the debt growth was maximal during Bush's second term. Obama hasn't slowed it much, but it's not growing as fast as it was under Bush II. Dontcha just hate it when facts get in the way of a good ideological rant?


Why does your chart end several years ago? Your facts get in the way of nothing.


----------



## Dr.G.

From the looks of it, bryanc, Pres. Roosevelt was the biggest spender of them all. He should have been far more frugal in fighting the Great Depression and then WWII. Had FDR fed less people, built less roads/bridges/houses/dams/etc and putting millions back to work, ignored the environment, left writers/artists/musicians to fend for themselves, never implemented Social Security, on and on and on, he could have kept the debt down. He should never have agreed to Lend Lease, and thus, England would have fallen and we would not have had all that D-Day expense, and that too could have kept down the debt.

Luckily, Macfury's favorite president, and one of my favorite presidents, Harry Truman, caused the debt to plunge. Truly, the buck stopped where he sat.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Well there's some hope:
CNN Poll: Obama up six points over Romney – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## i-rui

the entire Romney campaign hinges on "he's not Obama". He's never stated anything substantial about policy or his plans should he get elected.

to some people him not being Obama is enough. He's got their vote. to the undecided he's going to have to prove himself a better candidate.

I suspect that the debates will further undo Romney's campaign. IMO his lack of anything substantial beyond him "not being Obama" will be highlighted.

Obama is far from perfect, but he's miles better than Romney.


----------



## groovetube

I'm rather surprised at the lack of any real specifics on the part of the Romney campaign. Obama should really, be a sitting duck.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> the entire Romney campaign hinges on "he's not Obama". He's never stated anything substantial about policy or his plans should he get elected.
> 
> to some people him not being Obama is enough. He's got their vote. to the undecided he's going to have to prove himself a better candidate.
> 
> I suspect that the debates will further undo Romney's campaign. IMO his lack of anything substantial beyond him "not being Obama" will be highlighted.
> 
> Obama is far from perfect, but he's miles better than Romney.


Is that what you see? I guess you haven't looked at this from both sides then.


----------



## i-rui

i'm not the first to point out the lack of substance in his proposed policies, nor his penchant to flip flop on all major issues.


----------



## groovetube

yes it seems a whole lotta people see the same thing. I've seen this mentioned on many news sites, regardless of bias.


----------



## Dr.G.

TRENDING: Spoiler alert: Poll finds small following for Libertarian candidate – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Interesting. I wonder if Ron Paul will come out and support Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party's candidate for president? We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

From The new Yorker. Proves absolutely nothing except that Paul Ryan is indeed a politician. We can now safely say if his lips are moving bet that he is lying.



> Last week, in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, Paul Ryan said that he had run a marathon in under three hours, or, more precisely, “I had a two hour and fifty-something.” That is quite speedy, and running fans in the forums of Letsrun.com treated the claim with great skepticism. The Internet bears no trace of the run, and Ryan doesn’t have the extremely lean frame of your typical fast marathoner. Also, people who run that quickly are generally neurotic about their times. Shouldn’t Ryan remember his exactly? “He is too intense and driven to just forget something like that,” one commentator wrote.
> 
> Slate and Runner’s World investigated. Questions were raised, given the criticism of Ryan’s honesty in his convention speech. This evening, the terrific running journalist Scott Douglas figured out that Ryan had actually run a 4:01 in the Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota, in 1990, when he was a college student. This is not quite so fast. A 2:55 would have put Ryan in a hundred and thirtieth place, out of the thirty-two hundred and seventy-seven men in that race. A 4:01 put him in nineteen hundred and ninetieth place. It’s the difference between racing and running.
> 
> I contacted the campaign this evening about the discrepancy. Ryan, through a spokesman, responded that he’d just mixed things up: “The race was more than 20 years ago, but my brother Tobin—who ran Boston last year—reminds me that he is the owner of the fastest marathon in the family and has never himself ran a sub-three. If I were to do any rounding, it would certainly be to four hours, not three. He gave me a good ribbing over this at dinner tonight.”
> 
> 
> Read more How Fast Can Paul Ryan Run a Marathon? : The New Yorker


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Is that what you see? I guess you haven't looked at this from both sides then.


**ahem**

*Conservatives hammer Mitt Romney for lack of specific policy details*



> For months, Republican Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign has been built on broad themes: cut taxes, repeal and replace Democratic President Barack Obama’s healthcare overhaul, increase defense spending.
> 
> But when it comes to specifics – namely, how to pay for the tax cuts and extra spending, and what exactly a Romney healthcare plan would look like – Romney has been reluctant to give details, essentially gambling that Americans’ frustration with high unemployment rates and a struggling economy will be enough to propel him to the White House.
> 
> Now, with polls showing that Obama has taken a slight lead in the race after the Republican and Democratic national conventions, increasingly anxious conservatives are calling on Romney to spell out more of his plans – even if it risks alienating some undecided voters.


(NationalPost)


----------



## groovetube

conservatives must be from the 3rd side then.


----------



## groovetube

TRENDING: Romney’s political pretzel over Libya – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

This is someone not fit to represent the US in the world.

He can't even get the timeline or facts correct.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> **ahem**
> 
> *Conservatives hammer Mitt Romney for lack of specific policy details*
> 
> 
> 
> (NationalPost)


Both fiscal conservatives along with social conservatives were sold a bill of goods by George Bush, and they don't want to be taken in once again. Ron Paul was the true spokesperson for the fiscal conservatives, and Rick Santorum was the eventual spokesperson for the social consevatives/religious right. So, neither has come out with a ringing endorsement of Romney, so we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

"(CNN) – Has Mitt Romney twisted the narrative of Tuesday's attacks at U.S. missions in Libya and Egypt? 

A timeline of the events suggests Romney was wrong in his accusation that the Obama administration's "first response" on Tuesday was one of sympathy for those who started the violence itself–as the violence came after the first statement was published."

Hey, if the facts and timeline don't fit the sound bite, then change the facts and timeline.

TRENDING: Romney’s political pretzel over Libya – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Protesters angered by an anti-Islam film have stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Yemen's capital, Sanaa. This was breaking news at 330AM in Washington, DC. I bet that Pres. Obama was still asleep as the phone kept rining, and ringing, and ringing from a call from Mitt Romney who wanted to know why the president was not picking up the phone for that call at 3AM ............... a call from Hillary Clinton. 

Hillary Clinton Ad - 3 AM White House Ringing Phone - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Protesters angered by an anti-Islam film have stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Yemen's capital, Sanaa. This was breaking news at 330AM in Washington, DC. I bet that Pres. Obama was still asleep as the phone kept rining, and ringing, and ringing from a call from Mitt Romney who wanted to know why the president was not picking up the phone for that call at 3AM ............... a call from Hillary Clinton.


Why are those protesters so angry about a film, instead of the fact that President Obama boasts repeatedly of having killed Osama Bin Laden?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why are those protesters so angry about a film, instead of the fact that President Obama boasts repeatedly of having killed Osama Bin Laden?


Maybe they did not get the briefing memo that OBL had been killed ........ or don't believ it????

Still, this will launch Romney into the White House as a replay of 1980 ............. or, Romney will again say something stupid and inaccurate and people will question his foreign policy credentials????? We shall see.

Actually, the presidential debates should prove to be interesting as Pres. Obama takes the forefront as commander-in-chief.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Still, this will launch Romney into the White House as a replay of 1980 ............. or, Romney will again say something stupid and inaccurate and people will question his foreign policy credentials????? We shall see.


Here is a WSJ timeline of events and remarks. I don't believe Romney said anything either stupid or inaccurate.



Dr.G. said:


> Actually, the presidential debates should prove to be interesting as Pres. Obama takes the forefront as commander-in-chief.


Can President Obama learn to behave like a Commander-in-Chief over a few short weeks?


----------



## groovetube

of course you don't.

As just about every media outlet or anyone that is truthful is saying, the timeline clearly says Romney spoke too soon. End of story.

Now the republicans are furiously backtracking to desperately try and frame this as a white house administrations statement, when clearly, once again, is a bald faced lie.

I suppose if they repeat it enough times, there may be enough supporters, who may actually believe the lies.

Even McCain was choking on this and could only move the conversation to a combination on Obama's foreign policy in general...

Guliani said he was upset that Obama suggested we would go into Libya with their help. Isn't that the sort of attitude that screwed the US in the first place? I think the US is much better off with someone who understands diplomacy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Here is a WSJ timeline of events and remarks. I don't believe Romney said anything either stupid or inaccurate.
> 
> 
> 
> Can President Obama learn to behave like a Commander-in-Chief over a few short weeks?


Check the timeline yourself.

TRENDING: Romney’s political pretzel over Libya – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Check the timeline yourself.
> 
> TRENDING: Romney’s political pretzel over Libya – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


It hinges on whether you believe that a statement by the Embassy is part of the Administration. I believe it is.


----------



## BigDL

The constant, I find interesting, with the attack on the American Embassies in Egypt and Libya, is the folks that did the protesting, attacking and killing, are very much conservative reactionaries. I believe under different circumstances those reactionaries would have much in common with the conservative reactionaries that support Romney and Romney wishes to appeal to these kinds of people in those Excited States.

In the run up to, in particular in this war, for the White House the first casualty is the truth. By both sides.

The Democrats and the Republicans have both brought shame to their parties, their members and the leaders.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Why are those protesters so angry about a film, instead of the fact that President Obama boasts repeatedly of having killed Osama Bin Laden?


Because they're irrational religious fanatics.

Personally, while I think Bin Laden was a complete nutjob who was a genuine threat to the US, and civilized society in general, I'm extremely uncomfortable with the fact that not only can the US engage in assassinations of foreign nationals on foreign soil with impunity, most Canadians and the western media seem to think this is a good thing. While I certainly don't loose any sleep over Bin Laden's death, it worries me that the US could just as easily declare anyone else an enemy of the state and target them for assassination without due process.

Rather than boasting about this, Obama should be fixing the system such that there are checks and balances to prevent tyrants from using the power of the state to execute their enemies without due process of law.

You're certainly correct that there's some irony in the fact that these protestors are willing to kill over a stupid film, but don't seem to mind the fact that the US is routinely breaking international law. But these are people who's behaviour is motivated by the most absurdly irrational beliefs; so it's not much of a surprise.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why are those protesters so angry about a film, instead of the fact that President Obama boasts repeatedly of having killed Osama Bin Laden?


Well, duh! OBL is not the Prophet Mohammed. A wee bit of difference there.

And with regard to another matter in this thread... Have you found any of Romney / Ryan's policy specifics yet? We're waiting to be enlightened...


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> It hinges on whether you believe that a statement by the Embassy is part of the Administration. I believe it is.


It's been well established that is wasn't. Even key republicans have admitted this.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Well, duh! OBL is not the Prophet Mohammed. A wee bit of difference there.
> 
> And with regard to another matter in this thread... Have you found any of Romney / Ryan's policy specifics yet? We're waiting to be enlightened...


Yes:

G.O.P. Platform « White House 2012


----------



## groovetube

Yeah we saw that.

It basically reads 'we're not the other guy, other guy bad, and we have a plan.'


----------



## CubaMark

It is rather amusing the lengths to which the GOP went to distance itself from anything the party, its leadership or its supporters have done since Reagan was in office....


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> G.O.P. Platform « White House 2012


:lmao: Have you actually _read_ that?



the Republican Platform said:


> We will reform the tax code to allow businesses to generate enough capital to grow and create jobs for our families, friends and neighbors all across America. We will encourage investments in small businesses. We will create an environment where adequate financing and credit are available to spur manufacturing and expansion.


And free ponies for everyone! Are these guys _serious_? "We're gonna fix it; trust us!" How can you call that a specific platform?

And did anyone else catch this:


the Republican Platform said:


> May God continue to shed his grace on the United States of America.


Ain't that sweet? But aren't they supposed to capitalize 'his' when referring to the almighty sky daddy?


----------



## MacDoc

It's too bad Colin Powell is in that pantheon of villains - he was duped as well


----------



## bryanc

MacDoc said:


> It's too bad Colin Powell is in that pantheon of villains - he was duped as well


While I highly doubt he was in on the plan to fabricate a war, Powell pretty much sacrificed his reputation and integrity by working for such a bunch of unmitigated a$$holes. If history records him as having been duped by idiots like Bush, he deserves it.


----------



## Macfury

Invite Colin Powell? Why invite a Democrat?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> :lmao: Have you actually _read_ that?


Yes I have. And this marvel:

The Democratic Party Platform | Democrats.org

Enjoy the unicorn farts.


----------



## Rps

As Carville has rightly coined: " It's the economy stupid". I think the economy will determine who gets elected. Foreign affairs greatly impacts on domestic results these days, which I think will only help the Mit....... I think the job numbers will be telling .... we have two releases before the election and if the trend is fewer jobs, the GOP will have a field day. Ideology aside, when you consider what Obama inherited I think he has done a marvellous job ... could things be better ...yes.... but the timing of the mid-terms placed him in a lame-duck situation. I feel sorry for him, but I don't think anyone could have performed any better when you review the complete political landscape .......As for Mitt, as long as jobs tank, he has the advantage .....


----------



## Macfury

I don't believe Obama did a marvelous job at all. He concentrated on pet projects like ObamaCare while the economy continued to tank. Was it a difficult situation? Sure, but I believe others would have handled it far better. Obama is currently the architect of the worst economic recovery in American history:

Obama Wins The Gold For Worst Economic Recovery Ever - Forbes


----------



## groovetube

the response is to mock the democrat plan? :lmao:

I guess we can now take that to mean, no one wants to go near the republican non plan. :clap:


----------



## groovetube

and wasn't it forbes who also said Obama was one of the smallest government spenders?

:lmao:


Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama? - Forbes


weeeee! Can't have it both ways! Sorry!


----------



## bryanc

Obama's tenure has coincided not only with the economic consequences of the Bush Wars and Tax Cuts, but with the worst global economic crisis since WWII. It's easy to arm-chair quarterback, but I don't think anybody (or any policy) could've done much to mitigate the damage the US had coming to it; that sh*t had already launched before Obama got in... it just hadn't hit the fan.

On the other hand, there was, and continues to be, lots a government can do to make American (not to mention Canadian) society more equitable, more economically and socially vibrant, and more resilient. Socialized health care, and a fair tax system that does not exempt the privileged and the profitable corporations from paying their share being obvious things that can be improved. Obama's timidity on these issues is profoundly disappointing, but there's no question that Romney would be much worse.


----------



## CubaMark

*Russia's Putin Thanks Mitt Romney For Calling Them Greatest Foe*



> ussian President Vladimir Putin said today that Mitt Romney’s characterization of Moscow as the United States’ “number one geopolitical foe” has actually helped Russia.
> 
> The Russian leader said Romney’s comments strengthened his resolve to oppose NATO’s plan for a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, a system Russia believes will degrade its nuclear deterrent. The U.S. insists the system is aimed at Iran, not Russia.
> 
> “I’m grateful to him (Romney) for formulating his stance so clearly because he has once again proven the correctness of our approach to missile defense problems,” Putin told reporters, according to the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## groovetube

brilliant.

Romney is proving himself to be a real winner on the world's stage isn't he.


----------



## Rps

Do i sense a whiff of ideology.......


----------



## MazterCBlazter

.


----------



## bryanc

Those damn left-wing facts!


----------



## Macfury

The debt figure disingenuously uses the one-time stimulus as a base line. Obama is the real-dollar champ, adding $6 trillion to the accumulated $10 trillion debt.


----------



## bryanc

Here's an idea to spice up Romney's boring-rich-guy image; they should get some of their more entertaining supporters to film a campaign ad:



L.A.Times said:


> porn star Jenna Jameson has put her spin on the presidential race: "I'm very looking forward to a Republican being back in office. When you're rich, you want a Republican in office."


At least she's honest.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Here's an idea to spice up Romney's boring-rich-guy image; they should get some of their more entertaining supporters to film a campaign ad.


_Et tu_, bryanc? Do you care what porn stars--or any actor for that matter--are saying about the election?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> The debt figure disingenuously uses the one-time stimulus as a base line. Obama is the real-dollar champ, adding $6 trillion to the accumulated $10 trillion debt.


I'd split the blame for the stimulus between Obama and Bush; 3 trillion each. That makes Obama's record pretty embarrassing, but Bush would be the worst. I have no doubt that History will record G.W.Bush as by far the worst American president in history.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I'd split the blame for the stimulus between Obama and Bush; 3 trillion each. That makes Obama's record pretty embarrassing, but Bush would be the worst. I have no doubt that History will record G.W.Bush as by far the worst American president in history.


Worse that Warren G. Harding?????????? No way.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> I'd split the blame for the stimulus between Obama and Bush; 3 trillion each. That makes Obama's record pretty embarrassing, but Bush would be the worst. I have no doubt that History will record G.W.Bush as by far the worst American president in history.


Add to that that the republicans left such a massive mess it led to it.

Somehow that's the democrat's fault? pffft.


----------



## groovetube

Romney's Adviser Complains About Company's High Taxes -- But It Pays Just 2.2 Percent | ThinkProgress

2.2%, is just... too... HIGH!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> _Et tu_, bryanc? Do you care what porn stars--or any actor for that matter--are saying about the election?


No more than any other person; but I find her candor refreshing. Her point is that Republicans look after the rich. Democrats look after the poor. You may want to live in a perfect world in which governments don't look after anyone, but that's not on the menu; so given that it's one or the other, who should governments be helping?

My position is that the rich are demonstrably able to look after themselves and don't need any help from the government. If the government helps anyone, it should be the poor, because they can use whatever breaks they get to become, if not rich, that at least self-sufficient, and that's good for everybody.


----------



## groovetube

Better to keep them poor and dependent on programs.

Cheaper labour that way.


----------



## bryanc

*$250,000 per year is "middle income" ?!?*

Apparently Mitt Romney thinks people earning a quarter of a million dollars a year are "middle income" earners. 

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the Republicans aren't even trying to win this election; the Romney/Ryan ticket is a suicide bomb that serves only to continue to poison the well of political discourse in the US. If they can't win, they figure they can further polarize the populace and spread FUD that may increase their chances in 2016.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Apparently Mitt Romney thinks people earning a quarter of a million dollars a year are "middle income" earners.
> 
> I'm increasingly of the opinion that the Republicans aren't even trying to win this election; the Romney/Ryan ticket is a suicide bomb that serves only to continue to poison the well of political discourse in the US. If they can't win, they figure they can further polarize the populace and spread FUD that may increase their chances in 2016.


So Romney defines ‘‘middle-income" as a family making $200,000 to $250,000 a year and less.

Obama's definition for ‘‘middle class’’: families with income of up to $250,000 a year.

What is your poinr?


----------



## bryanc

You'll have to give me a link for the Obama position; I haven't seen that... seems wildly high for "middle class." The median annual household income in the US is about $30k.

And the Romney quote had to be "clarified" by one of his handlers as meaning "combined family income" rather than a single guy earning a quarter of million a year being a middle earner.

At any rate, it's pretty clear that, despite his close ties to Wall Street, Romney is wildly out of touch with "Main Street"


----------



## Rps

bryanc;1217786 At any rate said:


> Okay, so is he in touch with "Church Street" and "Wall Street"........


----------



## CubaMark

According to that same article from the Boston Globe linked above:


> Obama also has set his definition for ‘‘middle class’’ as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.


The article also notes:


> The Census Bureau reported this week that the median household income — the midpoint for the nation — is just over $50,000.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You'll have to give me a link for the Obama position; I haven't seen that... seems wildly high for "middle class." The median annual household income in the US is about $30k.


It's in the article you linked to and represents the same position as Obama's. Didn't you read it?


----------



## groovetube

See how reading the article helps?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> According to that same article from the Boston Globe linked above:


Right. But the median income does not define the middle class. In fact most people who think of themselves as middle class are actually working class.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Workers of the world unite! - YouTube

Paix, Brother Mark.


----------



## Macfury

If all of the workers of the world united, they would just build reliable robots to replace them.


----------



## groovetube

funny enough, they didn't actually do that. They formed unions.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If all of the workers of the world united, they would just build reliable robots to replace them.




Who would build the robots???


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> funny enough, they didn't actually do that. They formed unions.


Right on, Brother gt. Paix, mon ami.

Pete Seeger & Arlo Guthrie - Union Maid - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> funny enough, they didn't actually do that. They formed unions.


Which side are you on ............ that of the robots or humans?

pete seeger which side are you on - YouTube

Stick with the home team ............... the human race.

Solidarity Forever (Pete Seeger) - YouTube

Let's hope that Pete Seeger gets another chance to sing "This Land is Your Land" at Pres. Obama's next inauguration. We shall see.

Pete Seeger - This Land is Your Land - YouTube


----------



## CubaMark

Neil MacDonald gets my award for best quote of the week:

_Speech is protected in the U.S., and at the risk of repeating a hackneyed aphorism, free speech is worthless unless it applies to offensive speech. It is an American value, and one well worth protecting.

The trouble is, the framers of the U.S. Constitution didn’t anticipate the internet, which gives any idiot the ability to trigger an international crisis._​
(CBC)


----------



## eMacMan

Been thinking of posting some Carlin clips but sadly that might have some of our more self righteous members undies all knotted up.

Settled for this post clip of an old Tom Paxton song.
What did you learn in school today? (Tom Paxton) - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Been thinking of posting some Carlin clips but sadly that might have some of our more self righteous members undies all knotted up.


What decade do you imagine you're living in eMacMan?


----------



## MazterCBlazter

.


----------



## groovetube

On campaign trail, Romney ratchets ups God rhetoric – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

Well when all else fails, theres the god thing to beat to death.

'judge not lest you be judged'. Careful there Romney.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> On campaign trail, Romney ratchets ups God rhetoric – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> Well when all else fails, theres the god thing to beat to death.
> 
> 'judge not lest you be judged'. Careful there Romney.


Even better if you wrap it all up with the flag! I go with the theory that; The bigger the flags the bigger the lies.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hyper-partisanship has infected America. Too many have bought into the idea that "our side" has all the answers. But no party, like no person, is invested with perfect insight and far-seeing wisdom. Fixing Medicare? Boosting unemployment? Defanging Iran?

To quote Woody Allen, " ... most of us don’t even know how a can opener works.”


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hyper-partisanship has infected America. Too many have bought into the idea that "our side" has all the answers. But no party, like no person, is invested with perfect insight and far-seeing wisdom. Fixing Medicare? Boosting unemployment? Defanging Iran?
> 
> To quote Woody Allen, " ... most of us don’t even know how a can opener works.”


I know how a can opener works.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I know how a can opener works.


Well, you should be running for political office, at least here in Canada. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

*Comedy gold. Run Christine! Run!*

*O'Donnell Mulls New Senate Run - Controversial Tea Partier talking about a comeback in 2014*



> She's baaaack: Delaware Tea Partier Christine O'Donnell is making noises about running for Senate again in 2014, thus ensuring that race would be at least as entertaining as her first unsuccessful run in 2010. "I think I owe that to my supporters, to at least consider a run," the Delaware Republican told the Delaware News Journal in an interview picked up by NBC News. "People sacrificed. Not only came out of their comfort zone—sacrificed to work hard in order to win the primary. And I think that I owe it to them to give it every consideration." O'Donnell is still active in Delaware politics despite her general election loss.


(NEWSER)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Comedy gold. Run Christine! Run!*
> 
> *O'Donnell Mulls New Senate Run - Controversial Tea Partier talking about a comeback in 2014*
> 
> 
> 
> (NEWSER)




Well, at least she is not a witch ............... XX)


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least she is not a witch ............... XX)


I thought she looked really cute in that ad. I'd have gone for that witch any day.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least she is not a witch ...............


How do you _know_ she's not a witch? Let's build a bridge out of her!


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> How do you _know_ she's not a witch? Let's build a bridge out of her!


Well, she said that she was not a witch, and would a politician lie about something like that???????????


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> How do you _know_ she's not a witch? Let's build a bridge out of her!


Witches float! Or sink...


----------



## Dr.G.

SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters | Mother Jones

If Romney becomes president he should stick it to those "47% bums and leeches" and show them what true trickle up economics can mean for the upper 1%. All he has to do is convince the 5-10% of independent voters that he wants to help them as well. This, along with his 40-45+% would be enough to sweep him into the White House.

Now, more than ever, he needs to bury the refusal to show his past income tax forms .............. or that info could bury him.

Witches may float or sink ................. but Mitt Romney shall soar like the Phoenix. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney Chinese Slave Labor at Bain - YouTube

Now here is an economic plan that would work. Build these sorts of factories in America, fill it with slave labor or indentured servants, call them hard working Americans who appreciate low pay for working long hours .............. and just wait for the stream of Canadians who will want to go to the US to work. We could become the Mexico of the North ..............


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters | Mother Jones


What part of the video do you disagree with?


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters | Mother Jones
> 
> If Romney becomes president he should stick it to those "47% bums and leeches" and show them what true trickle up economics can mean for the upper 1%. All he has to do is convince the 5-10% of independent voters that he wants to help them as well. This, along with his 40-45+% would be enough to sweep him into the White House.
> 
> Now, more than ever, he needs to bury the refusal to show his past income tax forms .............. or that info could bury him.
> 
> Witches may float or sink ................. but Mitt Romney shall soar like the Phoenix. We shall see.


yes those low lifes after entitlements, don't they know the real deserving ones are the top corporations who are paying no tax?

They need to quit with the expectations, and understand that they need to build a multi billion dollar corporation to enjoy paying no tax. 

Bleed them dry of of whatever 10 bucks they might have! You heard the libertarian!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What part of the video do you disagree with?


That people like my mother, who worked since she was 16 years old (i.e., 49 years) and was living on Social Security and Medicare, and any money I could give her, should "take responsibility for her own life" and get off the backs of the taxpayers. Her income was such that she did not pay any taxes. However, just before she retired, she was paying a higher tax rate than Mitt Romney paid the past two years.

THAT is what I disagree with, Macfury. NOT all people who are poor want to be poor and remain poor. NOT all people who served in the military and now on GI disability benifits have not taken responsibilty for their own lives. NOT all parents with disabled children and get benifits to help for the care of these children at home, rather than have the city/state/federal government take care of them, are not taking responsiblity for their own lives.

Yes, people who are able to work and choose not to bother even looking for a job, or getting some form of training, those are the people who are the ones who are dependent upon the government, and we need to do something to get them off their you-know-whats.  However, NOT everyone is able to work, some have worked their whole lives and are now on Social Security, some have lost their jobs and insurance due to no fault of their own (e.g., outsourcing of their jobs) -- these people are NOT leeches on our tax system and they have earned these entitlements. 

I know that the libertarian party line hinges upon the dogma of Social Darwinism, but that does not make it right.


----------



## groovetube

You simply can't help those that actually think, that someone -wants- to be poor so they can live on 500 bucks a month.

If they want to believe everything the television tells them when they're shown examples of the few who abuse the system, they'll believe anything shoved down their throats, they'll defend the raping and pillaging of regular people not born with a silver spoon in their mouth who believe it's their god given right to kick the rest of America in the teeth because, they can.

Is it little wonder, why, the far right is having a harder and harder time putting one over on people? People just aren't that stupid. Especially, when the truth is shown.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I know that the libertarian party line hinges upon the dogma of Social Darwinism, but that does not make it right.


It doesn't hang on that at all. Most libertarians I know don't even think about Social Darwinism. However, once we improve means testing on social programs, i suspect the bills will go down to a shocking degree--so far that even Libertarians will find the amounts too trifling to argue about. Certainly, once corporate and bank welfare are also ended, the books will balance just fine.

However, the U.S. cannot afford 99 week unemployment insurance programs, and Social Security that lasts for 35 years. Some benefits must be defined and adjusted to suit the modern lifespan. While I strongly support a basic safety bet for those disadvantaged by circumstances beyond their control, I do not support a safety hammock.

Mitt Romney created a misguided public health care system in Massachusetts, so the notion that he believes in no form of state welfare is ridiculous. I believe he's right as well on this point--that once a person believes that the state owes them lifetime support, it's a very difficult matter to convince them otherwise while the cheques are rolling in.


----------



## groovetube

If the US cannot afford lengthy unemployment insurance programs, then perhaps it's time the Romneys who are corporate puppets to be discarded, and the democrats who -say- they fight for the common man to grow some backbone to stop the pandering to all these huge corporations who demand record low taxes (if they pay any at all...) yet continually downsize, send jobs overseas, balloon their cash reserves to record levels (like what Canadian corps are doing after they gleefully took the tax cut handed to them from Harper under the guise of job creation...) and lay people off only to only offer lower paying jobs, with less benefits if at all, keeping more, and more, and more Americans dependant.

Public school students are figuring this out.


----------



## i-rui

Dr.G. said:


> That people like my mother, who worked since she was 16 years old (i.e., 49 years) and was living on Social Security and Medicare, and any money I could give her, should "take responsibility for her own life" and get off the backs of the taxpayers. Her income was such that she did not pay any taxes. However, just before she retired, she was paying a higher tax rate than Mitt Romney paid the past two years.
> 
> THAT is what I disagree with, Macfury. NOT all people who are poor want to be poor and remain poor. NOT all people who served in the military and now on GI disability benifits have not taken responsibilty for their own lives. NOT all parents with disabled children and get benifits to help for the care of these children at home, rather than have the city/state/federal government take care of them, are not taking responsiblity for their own lives.
> 
> Yes, people who are able to work and choose not to bother even looking for a job, or getting some form of training, those are the people who are the ones who are dependent upon the government, and we need to do something to get them off their you-know-whats. However, NOT everyone is able to work, some have worked their whole lives and are now on Social Security, some have lost their jobs and insurance due to no fault of their own (e.g., outsourcing of their jobs) -- these people are NOT leeches on our tax system and they have earned these entitlements.
> 
> I know that the libertarian party line hinges upon the dogma of Social Darwinism, but that does not make it right.


that's not even the worst of it. it's Romney's assumption that the people who don't pay income tax are automatically democrats who vote for Obama.

The reality is most of the RED states are the biggest beneficiaries of US federal dollars. They are the biggest users of the entitlement programs that Romney disparages.

Red States Are Welfare Queens - Business Insider





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






it's this absolute disconnect from reality that the GOP has that's the most concerning thing about this election.


----------



## groovetube

Controversial private fund-raiser video shows candid Romney – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

now front page on cnn.

Buh bye mr. Romney...


----------



## groovetube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pXXMgrK00U

oh the last bit didn't end well for him. Perhaps to his strong supporters it may be well and good, but that's not going to play well for swing voters at all...


----------



## Macfury

It's truly fascinating to me to see how quickly such non-controversial material is considered "hot" by the left-leaning media and its followers. Romney has a different worldview? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It doesn't hang on that at all. Most libertarians I know don't even think about Social Darwinism. However, once we improve means testing on social programs, i suspect the bills will go down to a shocking degree--so far that even Libertarians will find the amounts too trifling to argue about. Certainly, once corporate and bank welfare are also ended, the books will balance just fine.
> 
> However, the U.S. cannot afford 99 week unemployment insurance programs, and Social Security that lasts for 35 years. Some benefits must be defined and adjusted to suit the modern lifespan. While I strongly support a basic safety bet for those disadvantaged by circumstances beyond their control, I do not support a safety hammock.
> 
> Mitt Romney created a misguided public health care system in Massachusetts, so the notion that he believes in no form of state welfare is ridiculous. I believe he's right as well on this point--that once a person believes that the state owes them lifetime support, it's a very difficult matter to convince them otherwise while the cheques are rolling in.


"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney says in one clip. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center estimates that for tax year 2011, 46% of households will end up owing nothing in federal income taxes. But if payroll taxes are counted, the number of non-payer households drops precipitously - to an estimated 18% in 2011.

Adding to his argument about entitlement, Romney said his "job is not to worry about those people."

The preamble of the Libertarian Party in the US outlines the party's goal: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others." Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual."

So, the rights of the indiviual will be "defended" over the "omnipotent state", but if this "state" wishes to be benevolent and help those individuals in REAL need, this might cause a Libertarian to "sacrifice his values for the benefits of others". Well, if I value being able to send my child to bed not hungry, and you value the same thing, why can't the state help out with making sure that this child goes to school not hungry and then goes to bed not hungry??? This is what I never understood about some of the Libertarian Party's statements of beliefs. 

Read the 1883 pamphlet written by William Graham Sumner, entitled "What Social Classes Owe to Each Other", in which he insisted that the social classes owe each other nothing. This is at the heart of the social side of Social Darwinism, and sounds very much like many of the policy statements held by the Litertarian Party in the US.

I respect your right as an indivudual, and if you don't want your tax dollars going to help people in REAL need, then that is your right. Do what some have done and not pay the portion of their tax bill that goes to support these sorts of programs. If you don't like politicians who support these sorts of programs (e.g., FDR, LBJ, et al) then don't vote for these people. That is your right and I shall fight to defend your right to hold your beliefs.

However, if you "can't stand the heat" of agents of the government helping people in REAL need, in creating dams, and roads and schools, and hospitals, etc, that help REAL people, then "get out of the kitchen".

So endeth the lecture. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> that's not even the worst of it. it's Romney's assumption that the people who don't pay income tax are automatically democrats who vote for Obama.
> 
> The reality is most of the RED states are the biggest beneficiaries of US federal dollars. They are the biggest users of the entitlement programs that Romney disparages.
> 
> Red States Are Welfare Queens - Business Insider
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's this absolute disconnect from reality that the GOP has that's the most concerning thing about this election.


An interesting clip, i-rui. I think that it fosters the stereotype of the "*******" southerner, which I resent. However, having lived in Georgia for five years, which at the time, was only above Mississippi and Alabama in terms of wealth, I have seen this sort of attitude. 

However, when I taught grade six in Waycross, Georgia (acutally, I taught on the outskirts of Waycross) , I taught mainly white tenant-famer children. Many came to school barefoot, carry their shoes or sneakers so as to get less wear and tear on them, and most were on subsidized breakfast and lunch programs -- which were their only two assured meals of the day. Most were on food stamps and their families received some form of state/federal government assistance. Still, these kids were the "salt of the earth", and came from hard working families.

So, Romney as president might not want to help support these sorts of people, but he sure needs their votes now to even become president. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney says in one clip. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
> 
> The non-partisan Tax Policy Center estimates that for tax year 2011, 46% of households will end up owing nothing in federal income taxes. But if payroll taxes are counted, the number of non-payer households drops precipitously - to an estimated 18% in 2011.
> 
> Adding to his argument about entitlement, Romney said his "job is not to worry about those people."
> 
> The preamble of the Libertarian Party in the US outlines the party's goal: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others." Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual."
> 
> So, the rights of the indiviual will be "defended" over the "omnipotent state", but if this "state" wishes to be benevolent and help those individuals in REAL need, this might cause a Libertarian to "sacrifice his values for the benefits of others". Well, if I value being able to send my child to bed not hungry, and you value the same thing, why can't the state help out with making sure that this child goes to school not hungry and then goes to bed not hungry??? This is what I never understood about some of the Libertarian Party's statements of beliefs.
> 
> Read the 1883 pamphlet written by William Graham Sumner, entitled "What Social Classes Owe to Each Other", in which he insisted that the social classes owe each other nothing. This is at the heart of the social side of Social Darwinism, and sounds very much like many of the policy statements held by the Litertarian Party in the US.
> 
> I respect your right as an indivudual, and if you don't want your tax dollars going to help people in REAL need, then that is your right. Do what some have done and not pay the portion of their tax bill that goes to support these sorts of programs. If you don't like politicians who support these sorts of programs (e.g., FDR, LBJ, et al) then don't vote for these people. That is your right and I shall fight to defend your right to hold your beliefs.
> 
> However, if you "can't stand the heat" of agents of the government helping people in REAL need, in creating dams, and roads and schools, and hospitals, etc, that help REAL people, then "get out of the kitchen".
> 
> So endeth the lecture. Paix, mon ami.


Indeed--I would agree that you have no right to demand that I spend my money on your causes. What is so controversial about that? I am a generous person. Is your worldview so cramped and fearful that you feel you must coerce your fellow men by force to support your causes?

In the system you espouse, you merely get to vote for the thug carrying the stick once in awhile. If you're lucky, he'll turn it on the other guy for four years.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Indeed--I would agree that you have no right to demand that I spend my money on your causes. What is so controversial about that? I am a generous person. Is your worldview so cramped and fearful that you feel you must coerce your fellow men by force to support your causes?
> 
> In the system you espouse, you merely get to vote for the thug carrying the stick once in awhile. If you're lucky, he'll turn it on the other guy for four years.


Well, this is the price you pay for living in a democratic society. As a member of the ACLU, I support many of your views re individual liberties. However, as an American and a Canadian, I also feel that I have to contribute to the "general welfare" of all in the country. If I don't like how my tax dollars are spent, I have the responsibility to speak up and act upon these beliefs in a civil and peaceful manner (this was one of the questions on my Canadian citizenship test, and was the question posed to me in the oral part of the test to see if I could speak English well enough to take the test). If my speaking out is not heard, I can run for office on a municipal, provincial or federal level.

I oppose my tax dollars being spent on the F-35s and you might oppose your tax dollars going to something like pre-natal care or school lunch programs or care for the elderly. Fine. We both have oppositions to our tax dollars being spent in these respective manners, but as citizens of Canada, we may speak out about our opposition, join social/political organization that increase the volume of this opposition, or run for office to voice these concerns/oppositions in the public forum. I am NOT the one demanding that you spend your money on my causes, and the provincial/federal governments are NOT trying to "coerce" either of us to support certain causes -- they demand we pay our taxes on time, or pay the consequences. They are elected to carry out the wishes of the majority, while (hopefully) considering the wishes and needs of those in the minority. That is our political system, like it or not.

I applaud your generous nature to support the causes you believe in. However, my "worldview" is certainly not "cramped or fearful" ............ unless you consider that my concern that those in REAL need will not get the help they need is fearful, for then you would be correct. If my view that tax dollars in the budget are "cramped", with more going for weapons than children in REAL need, then, once again, you are correct.

"In the system you espouse, you merely get to vote for the thug carrying the stick once in awhile. If you're lucky, he'll turn it on the other guy for four years." Not sure who "the thug" you refer to might be, and if voting is a non-starter in your view, then how would you like to be organized as a democratic society????


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## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> They are elected to carry out the wishes of the majority, while (hopefully) considering the wishes and needs of those in the minority. That is our political system, like it or not.


If our political system actually worked like that, I'd have far less objection to it. But when was the last time a Canadian federal government won the majority of the votes cast, let alone a majority of the eligible votes? Because of our first-past-the-post system, we inevitably send candidates to Ottawa who represent a minority - sometimes a small minority - of their constituents. This is further exacerbated by the fact that most voters consider this fact, and will either vote for someone who is not their first choice, but who they perceive as having the best chance of defeating the least favourable candidate, so even the votes candidates get don't accurately reflect the support for their positions among their constituents.

I am convinced that this failing of our democratic system, which is purely a reflection of historical constraints, is a major factor in the low voter turnouts; it's hard not to be apathetic about a system that is rigged to be so unrepresentative.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this is the price you pay for living in a democratic society.


And that price may include a society that exercises less tax coercion.



Dr.G. said:


> However, as an American and a Canadian, I also feel that I have to contribute to the "general welfare" of all in the country.


The big question is, how do you define general welfare? I certainly don;t define it as any amount of money extracted from me that may potentially help someone earning less than I do.




Dr.G. said:


> ,,,the provincial/federal governments are NOT trying to "coerce" either of us to support certain causes -- they demand we pay our taxes on time, or pay the consequences.


The very definition of coercion.



Dr.G. said:


> I applaud your generous nature to support the causes you believe in. However, my "worldview" is certainly not "cramped or fearful" ............ unless you consider that my concern that those in REAL need will not get the help they need is fearful, for then you would be correct.


Yes, that's what I meant.



Dr.G. said:


> "In the system you espouse, you merely get to vote for the thug carrying the stick once in awhile. If you're lucky, he'll turn it on the other guy for four years." Not sure who "the thug" you refer to might be, and if voting is a non-starter in your view, then how would you like to be organized as a democratic society????


Reduce involuntary tax payments to the bare minimum required. I would start with scrapping all individual welfare programs, and replace it with a guaranteed minimum income figure. All arguments after this point would be about how much that figure should be. Move all taxation decisions closer to the source of the taxpayer in decentralized fashion. Make all other programs voluntary and dependent on contributions like charity. After a certain minimum standard is met for defense of the country, for example, purchase of an F-35 should be made by citizens willing to donate money to purchase one.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Make all other programs voluntary and dependent on contributions like charity. After a certain minimum standard is met for defense of the country, for example, purchase of an F-35 should be made by citizens willing to donate money to purchase one.


Actually, I really like this idea. If the military had to have bake sales in order to purchase new weaponry, I think the world would be a much better place.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Move all taxation decisions closer to the source of the taxpayer in decentralized fashion. Make all other programs voluntary and dependent on contributions like charity.


Including things like roads, healthcare, education, electricity, sewers, etc.?

The problem with this libertarian fantasy is that every community would be constantly bickering about why certain individuals with no kids are paying as much for schools as that other family with 10 kids, or that guy with the SUV paying the same for the roads as the guy with the bike, etc.

What countries like Canada have been about is establishing a common wealth; like a minimum income... everyone has (or is supposed to have) access to a decent education, healthcare, societal infrastructure like roads and storm drains, and basic security protection by police and other emergency services. That allows us all to focus on developing something we can do beyond worrying about surviving and finding food and shelter. To support this we all pay taxes (or we all used to, until the wealthy managed to use their political power to rig the system sufficiently that they no longer have to pay their share). The fact that the people who benefit most from the existence and structure of our society are paying proportionately so little is what infuriates the rest of us.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And that price may include a society that exercises less tax coercion.
> 
> 
> 
> The big question is, how do you define general welfare? I certainly don;t define it as any amount of money extracted from me that may potentially help someone earning less than I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The very definition of coercion.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's what I meant.
> 
> 
> 
> Reduce involuntary tax payments to the bare minimum required. I would start with scrapping all individual welfare programs, and replace it with a guaranteed minimum income figure. All arguments after this point would be about how much that figure should be. Move all taxation decisions closer to the source of the taxpayer in decentralized fashion. Make all other programs voluntary and dependent on contributions like charity. After a certain minimum standard is met for defense of the country, for example, purchase of an F-35 should be made by citizens willing to donate money to purchase one.


Well, you certainly are no New Dealer, or a believer in LBJ's Great Society, which, I assume you would take as a compliment. 

"The big question is, how do you define general welfare? I certainly don;t define it as any amount of money extracted from me that may potentially help someone earning less than I do." So you would be OK with tax dollars "extracted" from you to help people earning more than you do???

"Make all other programs voluntary and dependent on contributions like charity." Well, I guess we could have telethons every week for a different program. Not sure how we could fund a national health care program like we have here in Canada. Still, I guess if you are a person who never gets sick, or does not need any sort of health care, or chooses not to drive on roads that were paid for by municipal/provincial/federal tax dollars, or shovel out your own city when the snow is such that a Mayor Lastman has to request that the Canadian Armed Forces be called in to help clear it away, or the thousand and one other things that happen because of a municipal/provincial/federal government program created these things, then you shall be a far happier person than almost anyone in Canada.

Do let me know when you send some money to Lord Black, who I assume is worth more than you, to help him out with his legal expenses.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Including things like roads, healthcare, education, electricity, sewers, etc.?
> 
> The problem with this libertarian fantasy is that every community would be constantly bickering about why certain individuals with no kids are paying as much for schools as that other family with 10 kids, or that guy with the SUV paying the same for the roads as the guy with the bike, etc.
> 
> What countries like Canada have been about is establishing a common wealth; like a minimum income... everyone has (or is supposed to have) access to a decent education, healthcare, societal infrastructure like roads and storm drains, and basic security protection by police and other emergency services. That allows us all to focus on developing something we can do beyond worrying about surviving and finding food and shelter. To support this we all pay taxes (or we all used to, until the wealthy managed to use their political power to rig the system sufficiently that they no longer have to pay their share). The fact that the people who benefit most from the existence and structure of our society are paying proportionately so little is what infuriates the rest of us.


Sorry I did not read your posting, bryanc, prior to my posting, since you present the view of price one pays to live in Canada far better than I. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Including things like roads, healthcare, education, electricity, sewers, etc.?


The difficulty with most of these is that they are all subject to budget creep. So if it's a good idea to provide a general grade school education, someone decides that we must also provide more and more public support for post secondary education, and finally demands that all post secondary education be made free... and why not throw religious schools and continuing education into it while we're at it.

So the most important thing to do is to define how far each of these programs should go. Whereas I believe that it's probably a decent idea to offer basic health care without charging for it at the gate (not entirely convinced), it would be prudent to create a list of procedures that will be covered through taxation, and those that a person would have to finance for themselves.


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## MazterCBlazter

.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Actually, I really like this idea. If the military had to have bake sales in order to purchase new weaponry, I think the world would be a much better place.


Better yet, let's have the money raised each year by the Terry Fox run go to the purchase of f-35s. What is needed more -- defending our country or curing cancer???

In 1981, Terry said, "Even if I don't finish, we need others to continue. It's got to keep going without me."


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The difficulty with most of these is that they are all subject to budget creep. So if it's a good idea to provide a general grade school education, someone decides that we must also provide more and more public support for post secondary education, and finally demands that all post secondary education be made free... and why not throw religious schools and continuing education into it while we're at it.
> 
> So the most important thing to do is to define how far each of these programs should go. Whereas I believe that it's probably a decent idea to offer basic health care without charging for it at the gate (not entirely convinced), it would be prudent to create a list of procedures that will be covered through taxation, and those that a person would have to finance for themselves.


Well then, you do what folks like Sinc are doing and demanding that your local elected reps are held accountable for the tax dollars they spend.

"So if it's a good idea to provide a general grade school education, someone decides that we must also provide more and more public support for post secondary education ...." That someone is the government and the government is elected by and for the people. Granted, I too feel that money is spent by various levels of government without much thought, but that is why we have the vote. "Use it or lose it".

I think that it comes down to priorities ............. what do we value and where do we want our tax dollars spent. Your values differ from my values, which is fine, since that is the benefits of living in a society such as Canada ...... we each have our right to believe in different things. However, with that right comes a responsibility of citizenship. I guess you were lucky and did not have to go through the process of becoming a Canadian citizen, which required one to understand the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship. Of course, even though you did not have to take a test to become a citizen does not excuse you from enjoying the rights while assuming the responsibilities. C'est la vie.

Discover Canada


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## Rps

I really love this thread .... But one could drop the "American" because much of the discussion is applicable to Canada and the inter and intra action of citizens and government .... Which leads me to what I think is the root of all political evil .... And that is the societal definition of demoracy.

If we insist on a majority rules approach we are open to the manipulations of the political process that we see today ... A might is right. If you will.

We might as well say that the poor are being punished by G_d and the wealthy are anointed . I have always felt, and borrowing from Dewey, that a democracy worked to the common good ( I'll leave the definition of that term for other discussions ) ..... And that, to me, is what Libertarianism is all about.

McFury, Dr. G, Bryanc, I would welcome your thoughts on how you would define democracy.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> The difficulty with most of these is that they are all subject to budget creep. So if it's a good idea to provide a general grade school education, someone decides that we must also provide more and more public support for post secondary education, and finally demands that all post secondary education be made free... and why not throw religious schools and continuing education into it while we're at it.


Budget creep is always a problem; but just because rational resource allocation is difficult doesn't mean it's impossible or that we should not try.

If we take your education example, I don't think everyone always wants more education, so it's not like this demand is infinitely elastic and the more society provides the more demand there will be. Most people want to work and earn money for at least a substantial fraction of their lives, so going to school indefinitely is not going to happen, even if schools are free.
In the Scandinavian countries where education (including post-graduate university degrees) is free for citizens, this is not a problem. Furthermore, there is a strong correlation (as well as some obvious causal mechanisms) between a well educated populace and a productive economy, so the costs of education are generally self-sustaining.

Finally, the issue of religious schools is a red herring. Modern democracies need to have separation of church and state; so sectarian "education" should not be financed through taxation. Obviously we have a problem with this in Canada, which is due to historical constraints, but I agree that we shouldn't have a state-funded Catholic school system, and I'm surprised this has not been attacked legally already.



> it would be prudent to create a list of procedures that will be covered through taxation, and those that a person would have to finance for themselves.


We already do this. But it's not always black-and-white. A procedure that is a necessary, life saving medical intervention for one patient can be a frivolous cosmetic intervention for another, and an entirely unnecessary intervention for yet another. As long as the practitioners are not getting paid as a function of the number of these procedures they perform, I'm comfortable letting the MDs decide what is the appropriate treatment for each patient.


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## bryanc

Rps said:


> I really love this thread .... But one could drop the "American" because much of the discussion is applicable to Canada and the inter and intra action of citizens and government


Well, I started the thread to provide somewhere to discuss the American political trainwre... er election, but you're right that the topic has wandered, and I'm certainly happy with the discussion as well, so I'm not complaining.



> And that is the societal definition of demoracy. ... I would welcome your thoughts on how you would define democracy.


Apart from the trivial "rule by the people" as opposed to rule by some dictator/king/emperor or ruling class/aristocracy, I agree that "democracy" a subtle and difficult to define concept.

At the core of democracy is the principle that all the citizens have a voice in deciding issues of public policy (either through elected representatives, or plebiscite or some other form of direct democracy), and that no one citizen's voice carries more weight than any other. Such a system has the philosophical advantages of A) providing every citizen a modicum of control over their collective destiny, and hence some personal responsibility for making society better, B) it makes public policy a matter of open debate and discussion, which should facilitate the emergence of better ideas, and C) a mechanism for changing leadership should evidence accumulate that the decisions made by a given administration are sub-optimal.

I think that all implementations of democracy fail in two fundamental, but potentially complementary ways: Firstly, it is never true that everyone's interests are equally represented; honest systemic problems and active attempts to manipulate the system ensure that some interests are always more powerful than others. But it's also true that not all citizens are equally knowledgeable about every issue, so it's not really inherently ideal that everyone's voice should be equal. Unfortunately, rather than complementing each other, these two flaws in democratic systems usually exacerbate each other, so that we have ill-advized policies being advanced by politically powerful lobbies.



> We might as well say that the poor are being punished by G_d and the wealthy are anointed


I believe this is, at least implicitly, if not explicitly, the position of the religious right.



> a democracy worked to the common good ( I'll leave the definition of that term for other discussions ) ..... And that, to me, is what Libertarianism is all about.


My exposure to Libertarianism has left me with little evidence that "working towards the common good" is a major theme. My impression of Libertarianism is that everyone should have maximal personal freedom, constrained only by how your actions may impinge on the freedoms of others. If individuals want to help each other out, that's fine, but it's up to them and there is no need for governments or other organizations to facilitate any such altruism.


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## MazterCBlazter

.


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I really love this thread .... But one could drop the "American" because much of the discussion is applicable to Canada and the inter and intra action of citizens and government .... Which leads me to what I think is the root of all political evil .... And that is the societal definition of demoracy.
> 
> If we insist on a majority rules approach we are open to the manipulations of the political process that we see today ... A might is right. If you will.
> 
> We might as well say that the poor are being punished by G_d and the wealthy are anointed . I have always felt, and borrowing from Dewey, that a democracy worked to the common good ( I'll leave the definition of that term for other discussions ) ..... And that, to me, is what Libertarianism is all about.
> 
> McFury, Dr. G, Bryanc, I would welcome your thoughts on how you would define democracy.


Rps, your "majority rules approach" does, at times, lead to a tyranny of the majority", but this is why we have laws to protect all people in our country. To live in a civil society one need protection of the basic human rights and civil liberties from being dominated or taken away by the majority. Yes, governments do undertake "manipulations", sometimes for the good of most people and sometimes to harm or control some/many people in a country. However, in a political system such as the one in the US (a republic) or Canada (a constitutional monarchy), the rights are codified and protected (usually/hopefully). 

"I have always felt, and borrowing from Dewey, that a democracy worked to the common good ( I'll leave the definition of that term for other discussions ) ..... And that, to me, is what Libertarianism is all about." From Dewey's "Democracy and Education" come the following quotes --

"Men live in a community in virtue of the things which they have in common; and communication is the way in which they come to possess things in common. What they must have in common in order to form a community or society are aims, beliefs, aspirations, knowledge--a common understanding--likemindedness as the sociologists say."

"... every individual has grown up, and always must grow up in a social medium. His responses grow intelligent, or gain meaning, simply because he lives and acts in a medium of accepted meanings and values. Through social intercourse, through sharing in the activities embodying beliefs, he gradually acquires a mind of his own."

Simply put, Dewey would contend that we are all in this together, although we are individuals when it comes to thought. "Thinking is the accurate and deliberate instituting of connections between what is done and its consequences." When the democracy "works towards the common good", as you contend, it would not really fall under a Libertarian banner. From what I have read on the US Libertarian Party's philosophy, there is something called "Consequentialist libertarianism" (CL). A CL would argue that a free market and strong private property rights bring about beneficial consequences, such as wealth creation or efficiency. In this view, Mitt Romney is somewhat of a CL. However, as seen in the mid to late 19th century, the early to mid 20th century ........... and on up to today, we see how the notion of "working towards the common good" was not met. The corportation became an entity geared towards profit. While some companies and corporations treat their workers well, not all have done so or do up to today (case in point, the Chinese company that Bain Capital bought). A CL would say that this is just part of the free market system. However, was it not Paulo Freire who said “Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. ”

That the Libertarian belief in "voluntary association" also takes the form corporations within a free market system. If they support freedom of the individual from oppression and coercion, then the corporate entity should also be free to do as it pleases. Read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" if you want to see what the corporate Social Darwinism view of the working man, woman and child was at the turn of the 20th century. That was the first true indictment of American wage slavery.

Have I made my points clearly, mon ami, in that I respect your point of view and critical analyses of various things academic. 

Paix, mon ami.


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## Rps

Marc, I agree with your points, but would like to add one small observation. In a sense, the rise of the corporation as a legal person has evolved to be th rise of the corporation as a community ... One of investors who seek their common good .... I think Freire understood the dangers of this very well... Sort of the "bain" of equitable societal development.


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc, I agree with your points, but would like to add one small observation. In a sense, the rise of the corporation as a legal person has evolved to be th rise of the corporation as a community ... One of investors who seek their common good .... I think Freire understood the dangers of this very well... Sort of the "bain" of equitable societal development.


Well, here is someone who thinks that corporations are people .......... and he is running for president of the United States.

Mitt Romney- Corporations Are People! - YouTube

"Sort of the "bain" of equitable societal development." Good one, Rp. Watch what Toby says from about 4:45min to 5:30min. This is my view of a good government -- "no one gets left behind".

For those who can "go it alone", I wish them well. Paix, mon ami.

'No Man is an Island'
No man is an island entire of itself; every man 
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; 
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe 
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as 
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine 
own were; any man's death diminishes me, 
because I am involved in mankind. 
And therefore never send to know for whom 
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.


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## bryanc

Rps said:


> Sort of the "bain" of equitable societal development.


nice one.

But I'm going to admit that I agree, at least partially, with MacFury and other detractors of government efforts to mediate 'equitable societal development' in that I don't think governments are very good at creating social change. You can't legislate beliefs, and beliefs are what determines how people behave.

So the best government can do is try to ensure that everyone has opportunities (note: not equal opportunities) to develop to their potential, and to erode systemic injustices. I think this can be largely accomplished through a well-provisioned socialized health care and education systems, laws that protect personal security/property/etc., investments in large infrastructure and scientific research, modest efforts to sustain arts and culture, and a fair tax system that requires everyone above a subsistence income pays their share into the system (i.e. no tax shelters). Even a sluggish economy will generate enough surplus to ensure that no one need starve in the streets, and therefore everyone can risk failure in attempts to be great successes.


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## Dr.G.

"Even a sluggish economy will generate enough surplus to ensure that no one need starve in the streets, and therefore everyone can risk failure in attempts to be great successes. " True, bryanc, but if you follow Macfury's logic, no one earning less them him shall get any government assistance (his words, not mine). So, you may have the funds to "ensure that no one need starve in the streets", but if you don't provide the food to these people, they shall die. This is what doomed Hoover when he chose to release government funds to feed the livestock in western states, but not the farmers or the people throughout the US. Ask anyone who stood on a breadline what they felt ............. or anyone who lived through the Depression, for that matter. Paix, mon ami.

great depression pictures - Google Search


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## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> if you follow Macfury's logic, no one earning less them him shall get any government assistance (his words, not mine)


yes, I saw that, and can only presume he wasn't thinking clearly. I think the point he was making was that *if* the government takes some of his money (in the form of taxes), and uses it to support people in need, that is a form of coercion in that he does not have the choice to refuse. I think what he objects to is the coercion, not the support of people in need.

But given that there will always be need, it strikes me as far better to have a socialized safety net, so that individual citizens are not in the position of having to personally worry about the sustenance of every needy person that may exist in their community. Such a welfare system has the obvious drawback of being subject to abuse, but it is hardly such an attractive lifestyle that many are likely to choose it over any alternative they may have.


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## Dr.G.

It's worth remembering that a part of the 47% who don't pay income taxes are Romney supporters—especially seniors (who might well "believe they are entitled to heath care," as well as many lower-income Americans (including men and women serving in the military) who think conservative policies are better for the country even if they're not getting a tax cut under the Romney plan. So Romney seems to have contempt not just for the Independents and Democrats who were not going to vote for him, but for tens of millions who intend to vote for him.

More than "it's the economy, stupid" it is now "it's the voters, stupid".


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> yes, I saw that, and can only presume he wasn't thinking clearly. I think the point he was making was that *if* the government takes some of his money (in the form of taxes), and uses it to support people in need, that is a form of coercion in that he does not have the choice to refuse. I think what he objects to is the coercion, not the support of people in need.
> 
> But given that there will always be need, it strikes me as far better to have a socialized safety net, so that individual citizens are not in the position of having to personally worry about the sustenance of every needy person that may exist in their community. Such a welfare system has the obvious drawback of being subject to abuse, but it is hardly such an attractive lifestyle that many are likely to choose it over any alternative they may have.


Well, maybe like Mitt Romney "he was not speaking eloquently". I see your point about "coercion". I guess the only way out for Macfury is either not to pay his taxes, or go somewhere that does not have any sort of tax program that might use these tax dollars for programs/projects of which is does not approve. He is free to take that route I guess. 

I agree that there is abuse in the social safety net, just as there is abuse in the tax system for individuals and corporations. Still, it is up to us to vote in the people who will take on these abuses rather than to just scrap these program that DO help people, or just go with a small basic tax on everyone and then wonder how are we as a people going to make do. Some, as now, will have plenty to get by quite well, but there shall be many who will be in need of some help. I personally don't want to live in a society that does not provide some care for those in want. These are my values and I don't apologize to anyone for them. Paix, mon ami.

Ebenezer Scrooge "...Are there no prisons?..." - YouTube

A Christmas Carol -- Ignorance & Want - YouTube

Pete Seeger - This Land is Your Land - YouTube


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## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> I guess the only way out for Macfury is either not to pay his taxes, or go somewhere that does not have any sort of tax program that might use these tax dollars for programs/projects of which is does not approve. He is free to take that route I guess.


Well, given that not paying your taxes will land you in prison, and I think any of us would be hard pressed to find a country that does not use at least some of it's tax revenue in ways of which we do not approve, I don't think poor MF has any perfect option. So he, like the rest of us, must make do with the least objectionable choice, and endeavour to improve the community of which we are all a part.

Although, if Romney manages to get elected, MacFury may have something approximating his ideal society right next door, so I can understand his enthusiasm for all things GOP.



> Still, it is up to us to vote in the people who will take on these abuses rather than to just scrap these program that DO help people


Yes, there's something about babies and bathwater that springs to mind.



> I personally don't want to live in a society that does not provide some care for those in want. These are my values and I don't apologize to anyone for them.


Nor should you; and I think these values are congruent with those of the vast majority of Canadians - they are certainly congruent with mine. Unfortunately, they are clearly diametrically opposed to the values promoted by Stephen Harper and his band of corporate puppets in Ottawa. What then, shall we do?


----------



## partsguy

bryanc said:


> Nor should you; and I think these values are congruent with those of the vast majority of Canadians - they are certainly congruent with mine. Unfortunately, they are clearly diametrically opposed to the values promoted by Stephen Harper and his band of corporate puppets in Ottawa. What then, shall we do?


Wrong thread. This is the AMERICAN Political Thread.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, maybe like Mitt Romney "he was not speaking eloquently". I see your point about "coercion". I guess the only way out for Macfury is either not to pay his taxes, or go somewhere that does not have any sort of tax program that might use these tax dollars for programs/projects of which is does not approve. He is free to take that route I guess.


MacFury is also free to effect these changes in Canada.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Although, if Romney manages to get elected, MacFury may have something approximating his ideal society right next door, so I can understand his enthusiasm for all things GOP.


I'm not enthusiastic for the GOP. However, I have extreme antipathy for the Obama administration, and hope to see the election swallow it up, so that its place knows it no more.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> MacFury is also free to effect these changes in Canada.


Good luck, mon ami. Where do you see yourself moving if you do manage to escape paying federal and provincial taxes? Bon voyage.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm not enthusiastic for the GOP. However, I have extreme antipathy for the Obama administration, and hope to see the election swallow it up, so that its place knows it no more.


So, you would vote for Romney if you had the chance rather than the Libertarian Party's nominee, Gov. Gary Johnson? It would be interesting if he were in the presidential debates.

Well, if Pres. Obama does lose, he could expect some relief in a monetary sense from folks like you, since he does earn far more than you. Still, I am hoping that he gets reelected and will be able to work for his pay. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Nor should you; and I think these values are congruent with those of the vast majority of Canadians - they are certainly congruent with mine. Unfortunately, they are clearly diametrically opposed to the values promoted by Stephen Harper and his band of corporate puppets in Ottawa. What then, shall we do? " Perform one of your responsibilities as a Canadian citizen -- go out and vote, and become active in your community/province to support the party of your choice. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Good luck, mon ami. Where do you see yourself moving if you do manage to escape paying federal and provincial taxes? Bon voyage.


Certainly not to the U.S. where they currently pay more. The battle will be tough, bit progress is being made in that direction. Simply failing to reduce the tax rate to the degree I desire is no reason to quit and leave my home and native land. I will work in Canada to free people from their tax burdens--then they can be truly free to give that money to the charity of their choice.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So, you would vote for Romney if you had the chance rather than the Libertarian Party's nominee, Gov. Gary Johnson? It would be interesting if he were in the presidential debates.
> 
> Well, if Pres. Obama does lose, he could expect some relief in a monetary sense from folks like you, since he does earn far more than you. Still, I am hoping that he gets reelected and will be able to work for his pay. We shall see.


I would need to measure potential damage to be done by another four years of Obama against my hopes for Johnson to win. A Romney victory would be the best use of my single vote this year.


----------



## CubaMark

*Clint Eastwood:*

“If somebody’s dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something, they’re gonna have to take what they get.”​
(WashingtonPost)


----------



## Macfury

I didn't think Eastwood was funny enough, but he certainly hit home the point that the Oval Office is currently occupied by an empty suit.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> I didn't think Eastwood was funny enough, but he certainly hit home the point that the Oval Office is currently occupied by an empty suit.


Really the only empty suite the night of Eastwood's speech was his own head.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> So, you would vote for Romney if you had the chance rather than the Libertarian Party's nominee, Gov. Gary Johnson? It would be interesting if he were in the presidential debates.
> 
> Well, if Pres. Obama does lose, he could expect some relief in a monetary sense from folks like you, since he does earn far more than you. Still, I am hoping that he gets reelected and will be able to work for his pay. We shall see.


So crumbles his argument. You can't be a libertarian and vote for Romney in my view.

The republicans have had a long solid track record for big government, massive spending, the inability to balance budgets, and creating a huge number of Americans dependant on social programs. Romney's platform simply promises more of this again.


----------



## jimbotelecom

groovetube said:


> So crumbles his argument. You can't be a libertarian and vote for Romney in my view.
> 
> The republicans have had a long solid track record for big government, massive spending, the inability to balance budgets, and creating a huge number of Americans dependant on social programs. Romney's platform simply promises more of this again.


Yup. the typical response will be the lessor of two evils front from the Lib. Losers.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> So crumbles his argument. You can't be a libertarian and vote for Romney in my view.
> 
> The republicans have had a long solid track record for big government, massive spending, the inability to balance budgets, and creating a huge number of Americans dependant on social programs. Romney's platform simply promises more of this again.


Gov. Gary Johnson Could Cost Romney 5 Battleground States, 74 Electoral Votes Needed to Win in 2012 | Libertarian Party

We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Clint Eastwood:*
> 
> “If somebody’s dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something, they’re gonna have to take what they get.”​
> (WashingtonPost)


:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Certainly not to the U.S. where they currently pay more. The battle will be tough, bit progress is being made in that direction. Simply failing to reduce the tax rate to the degree I desire is no reason to quit and leave my home and native land. I will work in Canada to free people from their tax burdens--then they can be truly free to give that money to the charity of their choice.


Good for you ............... another "Canadian by choice". Specifically how might you be working to "free people from their tax burdens"? Bonne chance, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well said. Pres. Obama is taking the high road on this Romney gaffe.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

4,000 of the richest in Romney's '47%' - Sep. 18, 2012

Well, this will be 4000 to 14000 less votes for Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hopefully, the remake of Gilligan's Island will not air prior to the November elections.


----------



## i-rui

Romney Apologizes To Nation's 150 Million 'Starving, Filthy Beggars' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

:clap:


----------



## jimbotelecom

Dr.G. said:


> Hopefully, the remake of Gilligan's Island will not air prior to the November elections.


Thought you might like this. When you have David Brooks barking at you things are not going "Right".
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Thought you might like this. When you have David Brooks barking at you things are not going "Right".
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html


David Brooks is what the left calls a conservative. Good luck with that!

My favourite Brooks quote regarding Obama: "I remember distinctly an image of--we were sitting on his couches, and I was looking at his pant leg and his perfectly creased pant, and I’m thinking, a) he’s going to be president and b) he’ll be a very good president."


----------



## groovetube

Romney's goose is cooked. The democrats have just been handed some of the most powerful talking points that will now resound in American homes for the next few weeks. I have read now quite a few times about moderate conservatives, which I believe there are a huge number in the states, talking about being turned off by this rather dismissive reference to those who benefit from social programs. Let's remember that many of those are seniors, war veterans, and many who have earned those benefits. Many of those moderate conservatives are getting turned off by the lack of compassion shown by Romney, and believe that thought they believe in conservative ideals, they also believe in compassionate conservatism. One that Romney very clearly rejects.

I believe I've seen it said here that Romney's best road to success was to veer hard right and not pander to the center. I guess we'll see how that works out for him soon enough should he not do so.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Romney's goose is cooked. The democrats have just been handed some of the most powerful talking points that will now resound in American homes for the next few weeks. I have read now quite a few times about moderate conservatives, which I believe there are a huge number in the states, talking about being turned off by this rather dismissive reference to those who benefit from social programs. Let's remember that many of those are seniors, war veterans, and many who have earned those benefits. Many of those moderate conservatives are getting turned off by the lack of compassion shown by Romney, and believe that thought they believe in conservative ideals, they also believe in compassionate conservatism. One that Romney very clearly rejects.
> 
> I believe I've seen it said here that Romney's best road to success was to veer hard right and not pander to the center. I guess we'll see how that works out for him soon enough should he not do so.


I disagree, gt. To go hard right is to go after your solid base. To move into the center is the way to gain independents, who will swing this election one way or the other. So, I am not convinced that all is lost for Romney. Still, with his expressed views throughout the primaries, he does not want his base to consider him any less conservative. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> To go hard right is to go after your solid base. To move into the center is the way to gain independents, who will swing this election one way or the other. So, I am not convinced that all is lost for Romney. Still, with his expressed views throughout the primaries, he does not want his base to consider him any less conservative. We shall see.


That was McCain's strategy and he dispirited the Republican voter base to the point where they simply did not turn out for him. It was also the operative feature of Bob Dole's campaign.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That was McCain's strategy and he dispirited the Republican voter base to the point where they simply did not turn out for him. It was also the operative feature of Bob Dole's campaign.


Well, to go to the hard right is to alienate those in the center who might vote for him, and to energize the supporters of Pres. Obama back in 2008 who might have sat out this election. Thus, I see no other block of voters he might draw upon. With a Libertarian Party candidate who might receive a million votes, this could swing certain critical states to Pres. Obama. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Well it sure looks like Romney is firing up his base and supporters really well.

Sort of like rats, fleeing a sinking ship. :lmao:

But I think what we're watching here sort of transcends much of the quibbling here about which direction a candidate should take. It's more about which candidate can -connect- with voters, rather than how far to the right/left you sit politically.


----------



## eMacMan

Had a call last night begging for support for good old BO. Informed Connie that I could not, with a clear conscience, support any of the candidates. May have used somewhat more colorful language. It was the same response as I had given earlier to a call from the Romney gang.


----------



## Rps

Marc, I agree with you that all is not lost for Romney .... I still have trouble with his handlers, they don't seem to be doing as well as Obama's did on his first run to the White House ... which is a problem the GOP can't seem to fix, apparently.

Also, I am struggling with this 47% comment. Many times a candidate will say things to one group, that out of context, will become highlight reels to others.
So, is this 47% really an acknowledgement that 47% of Americans are on the "government payroll".......if so that might run well with the anti-government crowd. What is concerning is that over all, there seems to be a 50/50 split. The last poll I saw, if you factor in undecided and margin of error, that both were fairly close. I would have thought Obama would have had greater distance by now.......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc, I agree with you that all is not lost for Romney .... I still have trouble with his handlers, they don't seem to be doing as well as Obama's did on his first run to the White House ... which is a problem the GOP can't seem to fix, apparently.
> 
> Also, I am struggling with this 47% comment. Many times a candidate will say things to one group, that out of context, will become highlight reels to others.
> So, is this 47% really an acknowledgement that 47% of Americans are on the "government payroll".......if so that might run well with the anti-government crowd. What is concerning is that over all, there seems to be a 50/50 split. The last poll I saw, if you factor in undecided and margin of error, that both were fairly close. I would have thought Obama would have had greater distance by now.......


Valid points, Rp. 

According to Fox News, the only real news out there, Sarah Palin has been brought in to the Romney Camp to help win some swing states, namely Florida. If the 47% comment hits home at seniors, many of whom are Jewish, then she could help out winning back the Jewish vote in Florida .............. and then that is one step closer for Romney to get a foot into the White House. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Love the cartoon ( but probably accurate ). Dr. G. I have a question for you. I was looking at the state population distribution for the U.S., which politically would be classed as "thirds", and I was wondering about current non-resident voters. I know you vote, but how does this impact on the electoral college?
I would think that there must be at any one time almost a bottom 1/3 state residing outside the U.S. at election time .... so how are the electoral college votes allocated.


----------



## groovetube

I don't know, latest polls are rolling in, and it's not good news for Romney. It;s going to be an interesting knife fight the next few weeks.

Will Romney's direction that macfury thinks will be successful work? Next few weeks will tell.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Love the cartoon ( but probably accurate ). Dr. G. I have a question for you. I was looking at the state population distribution for the U.S., which politically would be classed as "thirds", and I was wondering about current non-resident voters. I know you vote, but how does this impact on the electoral college?
> I would think that there must be at any one time almost a bottom 1/3 state residing outside the U.S. at election time .... so how are the electoral college votes allocated.


Rp, certain states allow those not currently residing in the state to vote if you were a voting resident at some point. I last voted in Georgia for Jimmy Carter in 1976. Georgia enacted legislation that allowed voters living outside of Georgia and the US to vote in their last legal county to vote in early 2000. So, I voted for Gore in 2000, for Kerry in 2004 and for Obama in 2008. My vote is tallied in the State of Georgia, which for each election cast all it's electoral votes for the Republican.

It is winner take all in the electoral college. Thus, the people vote for the persons in the electoral college pledged to cast their votes for that candidate. Every so often someone bolts. Case in point, in 1972, a person pledged to vote for Richard Nixon bolted and actually cast a vote for John Hospers of the US Libertarian Party. I don't remember which state this was for, but it did cause a bit of a stir, even though Nixon won in a landslide.


----------



## CubaMark

*Brilliant... just brilliant....*

*Busted!!! Romney’s Mom Admits They Used Welfare*



> If government assistance equals lazy victims. Then Romney has to point the finger at his own father!
> 
> Mitt Romney is constantly attacking President Obama for helping those in need with the so-called ‘entitlement’ programs, but another interesting video has come up within the past view days. This time, the star is Mitt Romney’s mother, Lenore LaFount Romney, talking about how his father, George Romney, was on welfare relief after he came to the US as a refugee from Mexico. It’s amazing how someone can be so against the very same social assistance programs that helped his family out so long ago. Sadly enough, this technically means that Mitt Romney’s parents fall into the 47% category of people he is not concerned with.






+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






(Voice4America)


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, I wonder how old this film is .... the look is of the fifties, and "owning our home for 4 years" would really date this to almost be a deliberate attempt to put her message out of context, especially since it is only 26 seconds long. I would love to have heard the before and after question. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Romney fan here, but fair is fair. Spin doctors from the GOP could say that "look what happens when one buys into the hope of America" .... I think Romney will be haunted by his past in this, rightly or wrongly.


----------



## groovetube

Let's not forget captain conservo-tude Ryan over there and his leanings on government dollars.

Usually the ones who pontificate the loudest are the very ones guilty of it most.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I wonder how old this film is .... the look is of the fifties, and "owning our home for 4 years" would really date this to almost be a deliberate attempt to put her message out of context, especially since it is only 26 seconds long. I would love to have heard the before and after question. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Romney fan here, but fair is fair. Spin doctors from the GOP could say that "look what happens when one buys into the hope of America" .... I think Romney will be haunted by his past in this, rightly or wrongly.


Here's a longer clip (2:48) from the original source (Buzzfeed / University of Michigan). Her statement is "cut from a 1962 Romney for Governor informercial."





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, the "sins of the father ..." as the old saying goes. "He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations." Luckily, the Republicans are on God's side and God is on their side, so I don't think that this video clip will be an issue. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

> Mitt Romney is constantly attacking President Obama for helping those in need with the so-called ‘entitlement’ programs, but another interesting video has come up within the past view days. This time, the star is Mitt Romney’s mother, Lenore LaFount Romney, talking about how his father, George Romney, was on welfare relief after he came to the US as a refugee from Mexico. It’s amazing how someone can be so against the very same social assistance programs that helped his family out so long ago.


This is a juvenile argument. Romney never argued for abolishment of all forms of assistance--he is campaigning against permanent ans systemic assistance. Is this what passes for an October surprise among the current Left-igentsia?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is a juvenile argument. Romney never argued for abolishment of all forms of assistance--he is campaigning against permanent ans systemic assistance. Is this what passes for an October surprise among the current Left-igentsia?


Yes, his notion of "permanent and systematic assistance" is what scares certain people, especially the elderly. If my mother was still alive, she would be quite concerned. Beyond her Social Security and Medicare, there was me. I was her backup social safety net. 

We shall see if this perspective is a deal breaker for those who are considering voting for Romney.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, his notion of "permanent and systematic assistance" is what scares certain people, especially the elderly. If my mother was still alive, she would be quite concerned. Beyond her Social Security and Medicare, there was me. I was her backup social safety net.
> 
> We shall see if this perspective is a deal breaker for those who are considering voting for Romney.


I see--so Romney has promised to kick the elderly off the assistance rolls? You heard it from Dr. G. here first, folks.


----------



## groovetube

That has to be the weakest response I've seen yet. Though I think it'd be pretty difficult to smooth over Romney's huge gaffe I suppose.

It seems the right is bouncing around trying to explain themselves without actually explaining their position whatsoever. Which is what is sinking Romney.


----------



## Macfury

And Gallup now shows Romney neck and neck with Obama:

Gallup Presidential Election Trial Heat Results: Barack Obama vs. Mitt Romney


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I see--so Romney has promised to kick the elderly off the assistance rolls? You heard it from Dr. G. here first, folks.


Damn right, those lazy bums. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. The very first Social Security recipient, Ida Mae Fuller of Vermont, paid just $44 in Social Security taxes, but the long-lived Mrs. Fuller collected $20,993 in benefits.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And Gallup now shows Romney neck and neck with Obama:
> 
> Gallup Presidential Election Trial Heat Results: Barack Obama vs. Mitt Romney


This is going to be a closer election than Nixon and JFK back in 1960, or Bush and Gore in 2000. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Damn right, those lazy bums. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. The very first Social Security recipient, Ida Mae Fuller of Vermont, paid just $44 in Social Security taxes, but the long-lived Mrs. Fuller collected $20,993 in benefits.


As now constituted, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme dependent on a rapid growth in population to support each successive generation who lives longer and longer. It's no longer based on actuarial data of any kind. It would be moderately less problematic if the fund had not already been raided by the Feds.


----------



## Dr.G.

The US Libertarian Party has the right idea -- This is from their web site.

"Social Security

Securing Your Retirement



Politicians in Washington are stealing your future.

Every year, they take 12.4% of your income to prop up their failed Social Security system - a system that is heading toward bankruptcy.

If you are an American earning the median income of $31,695 per year, and were given the option of investing that same amount of money in a stock mutual fund, you would retire a millionaire - without winning the lottery or a TV game show.

That million dollars would provide you with a retirement income of over $100,000 per year - about five times what you could expect from Social Security."


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> As now constituted, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme dependent on a rapid growth in population to support each successive generation who lives longer and longer. It's no longer based on actuarial data of any kind. It would be moderately less problematic if the fund had not already been raided by the Feds.


'Course the government could always re-pay the $Trillion$ they have looted from SS and it would then be viable for a very long time into the future.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The US Libertarian Party has the right idea -- This is from their web site.
> 
> "Social Security
> 
> Securing Your Retirement
> 
> 
> 
> Politicians in Washington are stealing your future.
> 
> Every year, they take 12.4% of your income to prop up their failed Social Security system - a system that is heading toward bankruptcy.
> 
> If you are an American earning the median income of $31,695 per year, and were given the option of investing that same amount of money in a stock mutual fund, you would retire a millionaire - without winning the lottery or a TV game show.
> 
> That million dollars would provide you with a retirement income of over $100,000 per year - about five times what you could expect from Social Security."


Yes, that's the right approach.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> And Gallup now shows Romney neck and neck with Obama:
> 
> Gallup Presidential Election Trial Heat Results: Barack Obama vs. Mitt Romney


As you well know MF, national head-to-head polling data doesn't necessarily tell you very much about what may happen. It's the state-by-state polling that tells you where things are really at.

For those unlike Macfrury who might not be aware of this, the winner of the Presidential election is determined by whichever candidate gains the most Electoral College votes. Each state has a varying amount of Electoral College votes, somewhat based on population, with the minimum being 3. There are 538 Electoral College votes up for grabs, the candidate who gets to 270 wins.

The US presidential election is a state-by-state election. With (I think) one exception, each state awards their EC votes to the popular vote winner in that state. The vast majority of states are pretty much a lock for either Romney or Obama. Romney will win the "Red" states such as Texas, Arizona, Utah, Tennessee, Georgia (sorry Dr.G.) etc and Obama will win the "Blue" states such as California, Washington, NY, New Jersey, Massachusetts, etc. Then there are the "swing" states that can go either way, most notably, Ohio, Florida, Virginia and Colorado. The US Presidential election is fought in these states.

Currently and for many months, polling averages have shown Obama having the lead in almost all of these swing states, the weakest lead being Florida. Those who analyze polling data and betting sites give Obama 3 to 1 odds of gaining enough EC votes to win.

Anything can happen, and election day turnout and party tactics can change things, but "neck and neck" is not anything like a true representation of the current situation.


----------



## groovetube

Very true GA, that's what I've been watching for lately. Though much can happen in the next 7 weeks, Obama is certainly doing well in the swing states.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

groovetube said:


> Very true GA, that's what I've been watching for lately. Though much can happen in the next 7 weeks, Obama is certainly doing well in the swing states.


Something else to consider right now is that Romney's current gaffe-of-the-day, the one where he's been caught with his plutocratic underwear on display at his private fundraiser for all to see, is not reflected in currently published polls. I suspect this will skew results even more south for Mitt. 

And my guess is that the upcoming debates will not do Romney any favours. He's kind of like the GOP's version of John Kerry, -- but without the intelligence.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> As you well know MF, national head-to-head polling data doesn't necessarily tell you very much about what may happen. It's the state-by-state polling that tells you where things are really at.


It only speaks of general trends.

Check out this site for the most complete polling data, including state by state polls:

RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Videos and Polls


----------



## Dr.G.

Walk and Talk the Vote - West Wing Reunion - Bridget Mary McCormack - YouTube

Interesting. A push for remembering to vote for non-partisans on various ballots.


----------



## groovetube

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Something else to consider right now is that Romney's current gaffe-of-the-day, the one where he's been caught with his plutocratic underwear on display at his private fundraiser for all to see, is not reflected in currently published polls. I suspect this will skew results even more south for Mitt.
> 
> And my guess is that the upcoming debates will not do Romney any favours. He's kind of like the GOP's version of John Kerry, -- but without the intelligence.


The debates are Romney's last chance in my opinion. If he fails it, he's done for. His problem is that he has handed the democrats tons of ways to derail any focus on Obama's record, which is enough to maintain until election day at this point. Romney needs a major Obama gaffe badly. He failed miserably overtaking Obama on foreign policy because of his huge gaffe over the libya attack, one of the republican strong points in the minds of the electorate, and he has lost a major edge on the economy.

Your comparison to John Kerry is spot on.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The debates are Romney's last chance in my opinion. If he fails it, he's done for. His problem is that he has handed the democrats tons of ways to derail any focus on Obama's record, which is enough to maintain until election day at this point. Romney needs a major Obama gaffe badly. He failed miserably overtaking Obama on foreign policy because of his huge gaffe over the libya attack, one of the republican strong points in the minds of the electorate, and he has lost a major edge on the economy.
> 
> Your comparison to John Kerry is spot on.


I agree, gt, that the debates are Romney's main hope to overcome any of the lead Pres. Obama has right now. Of course, he has to be careful -- too much detail will alienate some .......... but too little detail will cause people to question what he actually plans to do. We shall see.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> It only speaks of general trends.
> 
> Check out this site for the most complete polling data, including state by state polls:
> 
> RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Videos and Polls


Lots of info there. I prefer Nate Silver's blog at the New York Times. Silver is relentlessly non-partisan and he's a statistics geek who has an excellent record of analyzing polling data. Nate Silver - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

Here's a quote from Silver's blog entry today:


> In contrast to the six-point lead Mr. Obama has held on average among the swing-state polls that included cellphones, and the five-point lead he had on average among the YouGov Internet surveys, Mr. Obama has been ahead by just two points on average in polls that called landlines only, most of which were “robopolls” conducted by automated script.
> 
> If Mr. Obama’s lead is five or six points in the typical swing state right now, then Mitt Romney will probably need some sort of external contingency to give him much of a chance at winning.
> 
> If Mr. Obama’s lead is more like two points instead, then routine factors like the debates or economic reports could more easily put Mr. Romney ahead, although obviously there would be no guarantees.


----------



## Macfury

I find a lot of fault in current polling which is geared to anticipating identical turnouts to 2008. That results in polls heavily skewed to polling Democrats. I suspect that Obama's lead is hair-thin, given voter disenchantment among Hope-and-Changers, and Republican motivation to oust Obama.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I find a lot of fault in current polling which is geared to anticipating identical turnouts to 2008. That results in polls heavily skewed to polling Democrats. I suspect that Obama's lead is hair-thin, given voter disenchantment among Hope-and-Changers, and Republican motivation to oust Obama.


Presumably the past four years have adequately illustrated that the two parties share identical agendas. The only differences are purely cosmetic. 

Both favor wealth transfer but only when it flows from the poor to the rich. 

Both favor expanding the economic black hole to include attacks on Iran and probably Syria and Pakistan.

Both favor continued annihilation of people unfortunate enough to live in countries such as Iran.

Both are controlled by the Banksters and weapons manufacturers.

Both favor putting the elderly out on icebergs rather repaying them for a lifetimes investment in Social Security.

Both believe in omnibus bills, the bigger the better.

Both support the continued existence of Homeland Security, NSA, TSA etc.

Both enthusiastically support government based sexual assaults of the air traveler.

.....


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney to release 2011 tax return today

"Mitt Romney paid $1,935,708 in taxes on $13,696,951in income in 2011 for an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent, according to a return that will be released Friday afternoon at 3 p.m.

Romney also plans to post a letter from his tax preparer, PricewaterhouseCoopers, LLP, giving a summary of tax rates from the Romneys’ tax returns for the 20-year period of 1990-2009.

The details from the return were announced in a blog post on the Republican candidate’s campaign Web site, written by Brad Malt, the trustee of Mitt and Ann Romney’s blind trust. 

The Romneys filed their 2011 return Friday morning. According to Malt, the returns will also show that the Romneys donated $4,020,772 to charity in 2011. The Romneys limited the deductions they took for those charitable contributions in order to conform to Mitt Romney’s statement to reporters earlier this year that he has paid an income tax rate of at least 13 percent for the past decade. 

Over the past 20 years, Malt writes, the Romneys’ average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20 percent. Over the entire 20-year period, their lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66 percent."

Mitt Romney to release 2011 tax return today

A smart move. Now he can distance himself from the 47% of Americans that are dependent upon the government ............ those lazy bums. Granted, these will only be summaries and not specific details. Too bad. It could be very educational for Americans to see how someone earns over a million dollars could get down to a 13.66% level of taxation. Still, this should win him the election.

So, my prediction is Romney with 53% of the vote, well over 300 electoral college votes, a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate .............. and then you shall see how a businessman takes charge and really makes Coolidge's comment of "The business of America is business" true. We shall see.

I feel sorry for Pres. Obama, actually. All he had to do was show his university transcripts and he could have been reelected. Sad .............


----------



## Macfury

Obama will never show those transcripts.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> The Romneys limited the deductions they took for those charitable contributions in order to conform to Mitt Romney’s statement to reporters earlier this year that he has paid an income tax rate of at least 13 percent for the past decade.
> 
> ..... Granted, these will only be summaries and not specific details. Too bad. It could be very educational for Americans to see how someone earns over a million dollars could get down to a 13.66% level of taxation. Still, this should win him the election.


One route favored by many of the Über wealthy is to create a charitable foundation and divert a large chunk of income towards that foundation. Of course the fat cat either is or controls the board of directors. I suspect much of the spending/investing of some foundations would never stand up to a forensic audit, but hey why else would God have invented bribery.

Having numbered bank accounts in the Caymen Islands doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama will never show those transcripts.


True ........... which is why he is going down to defeat this November. I am curious as to his grades. I know how Romney manages to keep his income tax rate so low, since most if not all of his income is from capital gains and dividends which is taxed at a much lower rate than the average working person who earns a salary. Still, if he can nail Pres. Obama during the first debate with a straight yes or no question -- "Will you release your university transcripts tomorrow morning???" -- he can win the election, even with 47% of the leeches on the government voting for Pres. Obama. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> One route favored by many of the Über wealthy is to create a charitable foundation and divert a large chunk of income towards that foundation. Of course the fat cat either is or controls the board of directors. I suspect much of the spending/investing of some foundations would never stand up to a forensic audit, but hey why else would God have invented bribery.
> 
> Having numbered bank accounts in the Caymen Islands doesn't hurt either.


It is best if those numbered accounts not be discussed, eMacMan. Talk of such things riles the non-47% dependent class voter into thinking that he is hiding something ............. which he is, but he is able to get away with it, so no harm done. Still, best to let sleeping doxies lie, as the old saying goes. Once you mention fairness in taxation, the eyes of the average voter might open. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Shades of Ike. Hopefully, voters don't remember Eisenhower and his heart condition.

Washington Post Headline -- Romney Takes Statin, Aspirin
WASHINGTON -- Republican Presidential nominee Mitt Romney has hyperlipidemia and takes a statin and low-dose aspirin daily, but he has no physical impairments to doing the job, according to a letter from his personal physician released Friday.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, if Herman Cain had been the Republican nominee, and his "9-9-9" tax plan was ever adopted, Mitt Romney would actually be paying less tax. So, in retrospect, his being the nominee guarantees that he pays more tax ..................... and certainly more tax than the 4000+ multi-millionaires and billionaires that pay no tax ................ guess they are part of the 47% of free loaders.


----------



## Macfury

Why are Democrats so excited about the idea of people paying a lot of tax as though there's some sort of virtue in it? It's a fixation.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Why are Democrats so excited about the idea of people paying a lot of tax as though there's some sort of virtue in it? It's a fixation.


Only way to keep the monetary siphon to the Banksters and the MIC running at full volume.


----------



## groovetube

or perhaps it's better to have the fixation on slashing taxes only on the upper rich, but not cut spending rather increase spending by a massive amount so we go into loads more debt?

Which is better? Because the libertarian uptopia simply isn't, ever, going to happen. The sooner the extreme right figures this out, the better.

This weak mewling about how the democrats add more debt is simply delusional.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why are Democrats so excited about the idea of people paying a lot of tax as though there's some sort of virtue in it? It's a fixation.


I think that it's the fair share that most are concerned about, Macfury. Luckily, for the likes of you and me, this is not an issue. If one is able to make millions an pay no tax, more power to them .......... in more ways than one. There should be freedom from all government regulations that enfringe on one's liberty to "be all that they can be", with no forced cohersion to pay taxes or partake in anything that one does not want to do. If the others want to be sheep, fine .............. that is their right. Each person for him or herself, and let the others be damned and eat cake if need be. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I think that it's the fair share that most are concerned about, Macfury. Luckily, for the likes of you and me, this is not an issue. If one is able to make millions an pay no tax, more power to them .......... in more ways than one. There should be freedom from all government regulations that enfringe on one's liberty to "be all that they can be", with no forced cohersion to pay taxes or partake in anything that one does not want to do. If the others want to be sheep, fine .............. that is their right. Each person for him or herself, and let the others be damned and eat cake if need be. Paix, mon ami.


Everyone should pay a flat rate.


----------



## groovetube

I don't agree. The more you make, the higher your rate. It makes sense.

15% to someone raising a family on 40k/year is quite a lot. That 40k/yr job because many of the better paying ones got downsized and now lower paying less benefits jobs are being offered because the big income earners now ship jobs offshore and get tax breaks for it on top of it.

15% to a multi billionaire isn't going to put a dent on their lifestyle.

Flat rates are for suckers in my opinion. Unless you're rich and can afford to enslave lots of people to fill your boots while making use of much of our infrastructure in the process.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Everyone should pay a flat rate.


There are going to be a great many wealthy people who will be upset with this position, Macfury. What do you see as the flat rate? Those 47% of the bums and leeches that pay no tax will really be upset, but who cares about them. However, there are those with great wealth (an estimated 4000) that paid no tax at all. I don't see them as being very pleased.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I don't agree. The more you make, the higher your rate. It makes sense.
> 
> 15% to someone raising a family on 40k/year is quite a lot. That 40k/yr job because many of the better paying ones got downsized and now lower paying less benefits jobs are being offered because the big income earners now ship jobs offshore and get tax breaks for it on top of it.
> 
> 15% to a multi billionaire isn't going to put a dent on their lifestyle.
> 
> Flat rates are for suckers in my opinion. Unless you're rich and can afford to enslave lots of people to fill your boots while making use of much of our infrastructure in the process.


Well, if the rich are able to "fill up their boots", that is their business. It is up for the rest of the bums to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Of course, and you are not able to afford boots .................. or proper food, clothing, shelter ............ well, that is just too bad.

"15% to a multi billionaire isn't going to put a dent on their lifestyle." You can't be serious!?!? Do you have any idea how much 15% on say $2 billion dollars is????? Get real, gt. 

Paix, mon ami.

4,000 of the richest in Romney's '47%' - Sep. 18, 2012

Rich who owe no income tax: The Lucky 6 - Jun. 7, 2012


----------



## CubaMark

The American Right has never gotten over a Black President... two photos from recent days making the rounds:


(Austin, Texas - BAG News Notes)

Hm. Darnit. Can't find the other image I saw in the election coverage this week. It was at a political rally, with a Romney supporter holding up a sign that said "Dreaming of a White President - Like the One we Used to Have" (perhaps what prompted Randy Newman's song of a similar title?)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The American Right has never gotten over a Black President... two photos from recent days making the rounds:


So you found a picture of a sign you lost? And the chair in a noose is a "black" chair? Some academic rigour. 

Don't you suppose that if the first black president had also been a good one, people would have been happy with him?


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, if the rich are able to "fill up their boots", that is their business. It is up for the rest of the bums to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Of course, and you are not able to afford boots .................. or proper food, clothing, shelter ............ well, that is just too bad.
> 
> "15% to a multi billionaire isn't going to put a dent on their lifestyle." You can't be serious!?!? Do you have any idea how much 15% on say $2 billion dollars is????? Get real, gt.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.
> 
> 4,000 of the richest in Romney's '47%' - Sep. 18, 2012
> 
> Rich who owe no income tax: The Lucky 6 - Jun. 7, 2012


Romney full tax history still a mystery - Sep. 21, 2012

"adjusted gross income"?

:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> So you found a picture of a sign you lost? And the chair in a noose is a "black" chair? Some academic rigour.
> 
> Don't you suppose that if the first black president had also been a good one, people would have been happy with him?


You can't seriously be _that_ obtuse.... XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> The American Right has never gotten over a Black President... two photos from recent days making the rounds:
> 
> 
> (Austin, Texas - BAG News Notes)
> 
> Hm. Darnit. Can't find the other image I saw in the election coverage this week. It was at a political rally, with a Romney supporter holding up a sign that said "Dreaming of a White President - Like the One we Used to Have" (perhaps what prompted Randy Newman's song of a similar title?)


CM, not at all funny. I know you don't support this view, but I am shocked that someone would do that and say that re Pres. Obama. Still, in America, speech is still free and the freedom of expression covers that sort of sick view. Pax, mi amigo.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> CM, not at all funny. I know you don't support this view, .


Indeed I do not. And I find it rather sad that our pal MF so conveniently is able to separate in his mind that image and the Eastwood shtick.... As with much of the tea party rhetoric, race "has nothing to do with" their desire to send him packing.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You can't seriously be _that_ obtuse.... XX)


You can't seriously do as lackadaisical a job of stating your case in real life...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So you found a picture of a sign you lost? And the chair in a noose is a "black" chair? Some academic rigour.
> 
> Don't you suppose that if the first black president had also been a good one, people would have been happy with him?


Macfury, you need to learn the history of the post-slavery era in the US. A noose, a burning cross, etc, are symbols. You would then not say such a stupid thing as you just said. Usually your points are well made, even if I don't agree with them, but saying that if only "the first black president had also bee a good one, people would have been happy with him", shows that you really don't understand why some people, regardless of their race or political beliefs, would be upset over that picture and the sign that CM could not post. The picture of the chair and noose represents the lynchings that were done in the past against African-Americans simply because of their skin color. People being "happy with him" has no meaning in this context. I am sure you don't approve of lynchings and cross burnings, but I always thought you were smart enough to realize that these sorts of images and signs are a sign of sickness, not just displeasure over a president. You can't hate Pres. Obama that much so as to overlook the implication of the picture.


----------



## Macfury

Hanging is an equal-opportunity sport:


----------



## Dr.G.

"Hanging is an equal-opportunity sport"?????????????? Hanging of real people is NO sport -- it is a violent act of hatred. Again, you are just showing everyone how little you understand about some of the things you write about here in ehMacLand.


----------



## Macfury

Hanging political figures in effigy dates back hundreds of years.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hanging political figures in effigy dates back hundreds of years.


True, and in the context of the picture posted by CM, and your indifference to it, demonstrates you do not understand the deep implications of this act.


----------



## CubaMark

No... it's clear now that you're not that obtuse.

To describe what you _are_ would likely result in my being banned here...


----------



## Macfury

I understand that all political figures may be hung in effigy.


----------



## groovetube

Guys, the history of his posts here should tell you this isn't surprising. But it's enough to get anyone's blood boiling (and rightly so if one understands this at all) to speak out of turn so there'll be some satisfaction.

It merely puts much of what I see from that direction into perspective. I doubt he will ever know what the term 'equal opportunity' actually is, nor will anyone ever be able to make it clearer.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> No... it's clear now that you're not that obtuse.
> 
> To describe what you _are_ would likely result in my being banned here...


All I see here is someone who appears to be talking around an issue, but appears afraid to address it. Have the courage of your convictions, man.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Guys, the history of his posts here should tell you this isn't surprising. But it's enough to get anyone's blood boiling (and rightly so if one understands this at all) to speak out of turn so there'll be some satisfaction.
> 
> It merely puts much of what I see from that direction into perspective. I doubt he will ever know what the term 'equal opportunity' actually is, nor will anyone ever be able to make it clearer.


Fine with me. I shall bring my boil down to a simmer and then to tepid. Merci, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Fine with me. I shall bring my boil down to a simmer and then to tepid. Merci, mon ami. Paix.


Oh I'm one to talk. This is a subject that understandably upsetting. A great number of my inlaws are black and American, and while I couldn't possibly understand fully, seeing this kind of thing is just unbelievable. One has to hope, it's simple ignorance.

But they walk amongst us.

Peace back to you.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Oh I'm one to talk. This is a subject that understandably upsetting. A great number of my inlaws are black and American, and while I couldn't possibly understand fully, seeing this kind of thing is just unbelievable. One has to hope, it's simple ignorance.
> 
> But they walk amongst us.
> 
> Peace back to you.


Well, when I was teaching at a Freedom School in Coy, Alabama, we got a "visit" from the KKK late one night. No one was hurt, but the folks down there suggested that we leave Alabama before we got hurt. We were both from NYC and they did NOT like the idea that we were there educating the black children while there was a boycott of the schools until equal resources would be distributed between the white and black schools (this was back in 1971). I spoke with an old man who told us of seeing his father dragged out of the house one night when he was a boy ............... and later that day, saw him hanging from a tree. I wish for one moment Macfury could have seen the look in this man's eyes as he told us this story. I am sure that Macfury would not be as flippant with this matter of lynchings, which are different than being hung in effigy.

Peace to you as well, my friend.


----------



## Macfury

I will not hang an effigy of anyone. However, if hanging effigies is considered morally repugnant then I expect those expressing that opinion to also express indignation whenever it happens, even to effigies of politicians one does not support or like.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will not hang an effigy of anyone. However, if hanging effigies is considered morally repugnant then I expect those expressing that opinion to also express indignation whenever it happens, even to effigies of politicians one does not support or like.


It is not the hanging of effigies that we are objecting to, but rather your indifference to REAL lynchings. One is an act of political expression, vile as it might be for what it represents, but the other is outright murder.

I am starting to get angry again, so I shall let this matter go. I don't think you see why some of us are so upset over your indifference to the use of a noose in lynchings.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It is not the hanging of effigies that we are objecting to, but rather your indifference to REAL lynchings. One is an act of political expression, vile as it might be for what it represents, but the other is outright murder.
> 
> I am starting to get angry again, so I shall let this matter go. I don't think you see why some of us are so upset over your indifference to the use of a noose in lynchings.


We weren't talking about real lynchings. This is the American _Political _Thread. We were talking about the destruction of effigies of _political_ figures as a form of protest.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, when I was teaching at a Freedom School in Coy, Alabama, we got a "visit" from the KKK late one night. No one was hurt, but the folks down there suggested that we leave Alabama before we got hurt. We were both from NYC and they did NOT like the idea that we were there educating the black children while there was a boycott of the schools until equal resources would be distributed between the white and black schools (this was back in 1971). I spoke with an old man who told us of seeing his father dragged out of the house one night when he was a boy ............... and later that day, saw him hanging from a tree. I wish for one moment Macfury could have seen the look in this man's eyes as he told us this story. I am sure that Macfury would not be as flippant with this matter of lynchings, which are different than being hung in effigy.
> 
> Peace to you as well, my friend.


wow. What a thing to experience first hand this sort of thing.

I don't think macfury really understands the whole issue. I'm sure he doesn't want to see lynchings of any kind but just doesn't understand why people would be offended by the flippant remarks. Given past circular arguments I conclude it isn't worth the anger.

I fond many people far to the right in conservatism often either don't understand, or really refuse to understand these issues. Which is what I find wrong with much of the conservative parties now here and in the US, there is a total lack of compassion, or understanding.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> wow. What a thing to experience first hand this sort of thing.
> 
> I don't think macfury really understands the whole issue. I'm sure he doesn't want to see lynchings of any kind but just doesn't understand why people would be offended by the flippant remarks. Given past circular arguments I conclude it isn't worth the anger.
> 
> I fond many people far to the right in conservatism often either don't understand, or really refuse to understand these issues. Which is what I find wrong with much of the conservative parties now here and in the US, there is a total lack of compassion, or understanding.


This one one of my two most fearful moments in my life. The other was when I stood before the judge at my hearing to become a conscientious objector during the war in Vietnam.

I shall not discuss the issue of Macfury anymore tonight. My blood is at tepid, and I am calm.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Now for something completely different to lighten the mood. Enjoy.

"Homer Simpson votes for Romney, then gets outsourced to China"

Homer Simpson votes for Romney, then gets outsourced to China - America Votes 2012


----------



## chas_m

I normally avoid this thread for obvious reasons, but just to give you guys a LITTLE TASTE of how incredibly screwed up (and racist) it's all gotten down there:


----------



## Dr.G.

chas_m said:


> I normally avoid this thread for obvious reasons, but just to give you guys a LITTLE TASTE of how incredibly screwed up (and racist) it's all gotten down there:


Unbelievable, chas_m. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

It is unbelievable because it is not true:

Senate GOP blocks veterans jobs bill - CBS News


> Republicans said the spending authorized in the bill violated limits that Congress agreed to last year.


Now, show me where these four Republicans agreed that they would vote for it, _but then refused because the Obama mentioned it in a speech.
_
Boozman says he never agreed to support it in the first place:

Democrats criticize Boozman for opposing veterans jobs bill | Arkansas News



> Boozman spokeswoman Sara Lasure said the senator had hoped to support the legislation but in the end he could not because it increased spending beyond the limits imposed by last year’s deficit reduction agreement.
> 
> Lasure also disputed the claim that Boozman had agreed to back the bill after GOP initiatives were added to it.
> 
> “Sen. Boozman was never consulted on the addition and not part of the negotiation process for this legislation,” she said.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is unbelievable because it is not true:
> 
> Senate GOP blocks veterans jobs bill - CBS News
> 
> 
> Now, show me where these four Republicans agreed that they would vote for it, _but then refused because the Obama mentioned it in a speech.
> _
> Boozman says he never agreed to support it in the first place:
> 
> Democrats criticize Boozman for opposing veterans jobs bill | Arkansas News


"(AP) WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans blocked legislation Wednesday that would have established a $1 billion jobs program putting veterans back to work tending to the country's federal lands and bolstering local police and fire departments.


Republicans said the spending authorized in the bill violated limits that Congress agreed to last year. Democrats fell two votes shy of the 60-vote majority needed to waive the objection, forcing the legislation back to committee.


Supporters loosely modeled their proposal after the President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps used during the Great Depression to put people to work planting trees, building parks and constructing dams. They said the latest monthly jobs report, showing a nearly 11 percent unemployment rate for veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, merited action from Congress."

Well, that in and of itself should have been enough to sink the bill. Who needs a modified CCC???? Granted, as a child I used to play in Kissena Park, which was rehabilitated in the 1930s by the CCC, giving meaningful work to hundreds of NYC unemployed ............. but, hey, if Paul Ryan can come out against the very programs that helped him in his college days, I can come out against meaningful work projects that employ un/underemployed vets. They are nothing but ungrateful non-taxpaying leeches. What have they done for the US lately?????


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G, the fact that your family benefited heavily from federal welfare programs may be a reason that you love and support these programs--however, it does not make them loved and supported by all.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G, the fact that your family benefited heavily from federal welfare programs may be a reason that you love and support these programs--however, it does not make them loved and supported by all.


Sorry, my family did not "benefit heavily from federal welfare programs". We were eligible for relief (which is what it was called when I was a child), but my parents refused it, so I grew up poor. I did, however, play in Kissena Park as a child, which was reclaimed as a run-down park by the CCC, so I did benefit from this federal program. I also drove to the park on roads built with federal and state funds ....... and I did visit buildings that had artistic designs from the WPA program, along with other projects that were started during the FDR New Deal era.

So, I stand corrected. I did benefit heavily from federal workfare (NOT welfare) programs which put the unemployed to work in meaningful ways and provided them with an honest wage for an honest days work. Shame on them ............... and shame on me for thinking that helping a person enter a "circle of hope" that helps to break the cycle of poverty is a good thing. No, we should not "love or support" these programs, but rather stop funding them so we would all be better off ............ I guess. Sad to think of a world devoid of "love and support" for those in true need, however.


----------



## groovetube

whoa, now that's hitting below the belt.

I wonder if he has seen the reports that the republican heavy states are the largest beneficiaries of social programs.

Or that Paul Ryan himself, benefited from government dollars most of his life.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, my family did not "benefit heavily from federal welfare programs". We were eligible for relief (which is what it was called when I was a child), but my parents refused it, so I grew up poor. I did, however, play in Kissena Park as a child, which was reclaimed as a run-down park by the CCC, so I did benefit from this federal program. I also drove to the park on roads built with federal and state funds ....... and I did visit buildings that had artistic designs from the WPA program, along with other projects that were started during the FDR New Deal era.
> 
> So, I stand corrected. I did benefit heavily from federal workfare (NOT welfare) programs which put the unemployed to work in meaningful ways and provided them with an honest wage for an honest days work. Shame on them ............... and shame on me for thinking that helping a person enter a "circle of hope" that helps to break the cycle of poverty is a good thing. No, we should not "love or support" these programs, but rather stop funding them so we would all be better off ............ I guess. Sad to think of a world devoid of "love and support" for those in true need, however.


Dr. G, you continuously use examples of how your family benefited from federal payment programs as justification for those programs. However, these anecdotes do not form a compelling argument, any more than a tale of someone who abused such a program would form a compelling argument against them.

If Halliburton spoke glowingly of receiving corporate welfare, because it helped expand the company, boost profits and fight off international competition, it would likely receive a cold reception.

Solyndra could have told a glowing story about how federal support had allowed it to hire thousands--just before it cashed.

Anecdotal information about individual beneficiaries does not constitute an argument supporting those programs.


----------



## Rps

Not wanting to getting into a shooting match, or question one's political opinion, but in an election year ( and as you once pointed out MacFury the U.S. seems to be in a state of perpetual electioneering ) I wouldn't trust any quote from a news source as they are so ideologically biased. Not sure if you've lived near the U.S. border but I do and believe me the PACs and Lobbys bias the news and reporting. If one steps back from one's ideology and looks at the intent of recent U.S. legislation which was "in process" even you would have to say that the GOP leaned towards its ideology and not towards what was good for the populace .... be honest even the Dems grandstanded and, in a sense, made Obama a "defacto" lame-duck. What I look at is what did the incumbents try to do .... and from my view the Dems didn't try to govern as much as position and the GOP didn't position as much as they opposed ... many cases for the sake of opposing.

Need we delve into Romney's legislative past as and compare that to his current platform? It really doesn't matter what the final legislation is, it usually changes substantially from when first "politically" introduced. In many cases passed legislation is seldom reversed by new governments ... it seems its all about the show.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not wanting to getting into a shooting match, or question one's political opinion, but in an election year ( and as you once pointed out MacFury the U.S. seems to be in a state of perpetual electioneering ) I wouldn't trust any quote from a news source as they are so ideologically biased. Not sure if you've lived near the U.S. border but I do and believe me the PACs and Lobbys bias the news and reporting. If one steps back from one's ideology and looks at the intent of recent U.S. legislation which was "in process" even you would have to say that the GOP leaned towards its ideology and not towards what was good for the populace .... be honest even the Dems grandstanded and, in a sense, made Obama a "defacto" lame-duck. What I look at is what did the incumbents try to do .... and from my view the Dems didn't try to govern as much as position and the GOP didn't position as much as they opposed ... many cases for the sake of opposing.
> 
> Need we delve into Romney's legislative past as and compare that to his current platform? It really doesn't matter what the final legislation is, it usually changes substantially from when first "politically" introduced. In many cases passed legislation is seldom reversed by new governments ... it seems its all about the show.


Rps I agree and I hear many of these ads on Buffalo radio. Much of this stuff is just hyper-inflated nonsense pounced on by both parties and twisted to suit.

1) Take a closer look at the Veterans Jobs Bill and it appears to be a block grant program designed to create a large administrative staff, then hand out the block grants to individual states to hire various state employees, such as police, firefighters and early responders. They are not required to hire veterans, but only to give them priority consideration if they apply for those positions.

2) If you created a list of senators and representatives who added an amendment to a bill and then voted against it, you could make a career of it. Happens all the time.

3) The bill had no chance of passing the House of Representatives, and was introduced at the last possible moment by Harry Reid as political theatre.

4) If the Republicans really wanted this bill to pass, they could have passed it, since their previous love of deficit spending is well established.

5) If one wanted to "support the troops" who come home, giving them each a bonus of $10,000 per year for the next five years would be cheaper than the costs of administering these many overlapping programs. Either party could choose to do this.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I think I really agree with your last point..... it would be cheaper. But here's a blatant example for you. In Michigan, like California, they have propositions on the ballot. Many are state constitution changes, there are 6. I won't go into P6, which is on the DRIC, as much has been said on this prior, but P3 is about reducing Michigan's coal fire electric generation. The against lobby talks about the $12.5 Billion experiment, and in an almost bankrupt state this certainly carries currency .... in Essex county you can't move for the Solar panels and WIndmills, but that doesn't seem to matter to the against. The For are running ads stating that this will increase jobs in Michigan and that 66% of Michigan's coal purchases are imported thus impacting Michigan jobs. Well where does the majority of Michigan coal come from ( Michigan does have coal mining but it seems it is not profitable ) ... why it is imported all the way from Wyoming...... the implication is that the coal is off-shore, The news stations know this, but seldom do they correct the obvious Fortress America ( or in this case Michigan ) mind set. I've come to the conclusion that you can't trust anything you see, hear, or read when it comes to politics.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The news stations know this, but seldom do they correct the obvious Fortress America ( or in this case Michigan ) mind set. I've come to the conclusion that you can't trust anything you see, hear, or read when it comes to politics.


Digging to the bottom requires more work than many citizens and most media are willing to invest. Example: many ads slamming coal on behalf of environmental groups were funded by natural gas lobbies. 

The overuse of expressions of moral outrage on each and every issue is becoming tiresome. Before the Internet it was largely limited to listening to these advertisements--now citizens are taking up the same talking points and lobbing them at each other.

The OP in the story of the veterans jobs bill didn't even provide a link or any detailed information about the issues--just an advertisement for the Democrat re-election campaign (it says so right at the bottom corner of the ad).


----------



## Rps

Not to derail the thread, or introduce a "personal commercial" your above points are critical to understanding North American culture. I find the net uses a might is right philosophy, with the more hits the more valid a point is, or more importantly the more it is manufactured. That is why in my ESL sessions I am introducing programme to critically examine political issues .... this is an area where many teacher dare not tread, but I feel it is important that new Canadians are armed with tools to make informed decisions.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not to derail the thread, or introduce a "personal commercial" your above points are critical to understanding North American culture. I find the net uses a might is right philosophy, with the more hits the more valid a point is, or more importantly the more it is manufactured. That is why in my ESL sessions I am introducing programme to critically examine political issues .... this is an area where many teacher dare not tread, but I feel it is important that new Canadians are armed with tools to make informed decisions.


I think that's an excellent undertaking.

In even attempting to find the text of the Veterans Job Corp Bill, I had to pick past hundreds of sites rambling about the soldier-hating Republicans and over-spending Democrats before i could find the actual details of the proposed bill.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G, you continuously use examples of how your family benefited from federal payment programs as justification for those programs. However, these anecdotes do not form a compelling argument, any more than a tale of someone who abused such a program would form a compelling argument against them.
> 
> If Halliburton spoke glowingly of receiving corporate welfare, because it helped expand the company, boost profits and fight off international competition, it would likely receive a cold reception.
> 
> Solyndra could have told a glowing story about how federal support had allowed it to hire thousands--just before it cashed.
> 
> Anecdotal information about individual beneficiaries does not constitute an argument supporting those programs.


Yes, my mother worked for 51 years, in an office and at home, except for the two years she took off to give birth to my sister and myself. Yes, she paid taxes for all the work she did in an office and with work she was able to do at home, along with Social Security. She started to take Social Security and Medicare at the age of 67 when she retired. My father had a small disability pension from the US Army for the lifelong injuries he suffered in the Pacific during WWII. So, yes, my family benefited from federal payment programs. However, this is NOT why I support these programs -- I support these programs because it HELPS people in need. I won't belabor the point with personal anecdotes re my own family, nor with the anecdotes of so many other people who were/are in REAL need and are HELPED by these programs. However, my bottom line is that I am FOR federal/state programs that provide help for those in REAL need. That is a good use of the tax dollar. If offering a helping hand to those in need is so offensive to you, then we should simply agree to disagree and end it there.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

With Social Security, your mother was probably paid less than she could have gotten by placing that money in an interest-bearing account. Again, anecdotal evidence doesn't support the big picture. Feel free to end the discussion, however.


----------



## CubaMark

Back from a weekend with the in-laws to discover this ridiculous statement:



Macfury said:


> We weren't talking about real lynchings. This is the American _Political _Thread. We were talking about the destruction of effigies of _political_ figures as a form of protest.


*NO YOU DAMN IDIOT.* (Ban accepted gladly).

That photograph was very much about REAL lynchings - the real lynching of the black President of the United States, which is the intent of the hanging of the chair, which draws from the empty chair - Clint Eastwood performance at the RNC.

You are NOT that stupid. You are intentionally baiting us - congratulations, we bit.

I'm going on vacation now. Enjoy the silence from this quarter.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Back from a weekend with the in-laws to discover this ridiculous statement:
> 
> 
> 
> *NO YOU DAMN IDIOT.* (Ban accepted gladly).
> 
> That photograph was very much about REAL lynchings - the real lynching of the black President of the United States, which is the intent of the hanging of the chair, which draws from the empty chair - Clint Eastwood performance at the RNC.
> 
> You are NOT that stupid. You are intentionally baiting us - congratulations, we bit.
> 
> I'm going on vacation now. Enjoy the silence from this quarter.


Ban yourself and take your post with you. It's not worth reporting, but does demonstrate to me the type of temper tantrum I've come to associate with the left. If you can't control your emotions and separate your projections from reality, it would be better for you to take a break.


----------



## groovetube

It never ceases to amaze me as I watch people knowingly hit like that on subjects like this. Then stand back, laugh, trot out the prepared statement about "the left". Should I make a statement about the insensitive right? No, that would be stooping. Many of my right wing friends have more compassion than this.

Even Dr. G got upset, who is one of the most peaceful accepting persons on this forum. 

I think -that-, and all this can speak to what I don't really even need to say. You all know.

Good night.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It never ceases to amaze me as I watch people knowingly hit like that on subjects like this. Then stand back, laugh, trot out the prepared statement about "the left". Should I make a statement about the insensitive right? No, that would be stooping. Many of my right wing friends have more compassion than this.
> 
> Even Dr. G got upset, who is one of the most peaceful accepting persons on this forum.
> 
> I think -that-, and all this can speak to what I don't really even need to say. You all know.
> 
> Good night.


Serenity now, gt. Have a good night. Paix, mon ami.

Seinfeld - Serenity Now & Hoochie Mama.wmv - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Serenity now, gt. Have a good night. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Seinfeld - Serenity Now & Hoochie Mama.wmv - YouTube


makes me sick.

But hey, it goes on. Not my problem after I hit 'back'


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> makes me sick.
> 
> But hey, it goes on. Not my problem after I hit 'back'


I tire of being classified as part of "the left". I don't like to label people and I hate being labeled. So, I have come to a point that Macfury if just like a friend I grew up with -- David Rothman, who always was right and had to have the last word. At one point, I just ignored him and let him go on and on and on and on about this and that. Sadly, many of his friends did the same thing. 

So, don't get sick, don't try to get even, don't try to win an arguement ............. just take life easy.  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I tire of being classified as part of "the left". I don't like to label people and I hate being labeled. So, I have come to a point that Macfury if just like a friend I grew up with -- xxxxxxxx, who always was right and had to have the last word. At one point, I just ignored him and let him go on and on and on and on about this and that. Sadly, many of his friends did the same thing.
> 
> So, don't get sick, don't try to get even, don't try to win an arguement ............. just take life easy. Paix, mon ami.



Why would you mention your friend by name here, and then describe personal details of his life? I purposefully deleted his name in my response. I suggest you do the same.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why would you mention your friend by name here, and then describe personal details of his life? I purposefully deleted his name in my response. I suggest you do the same.


David died of kidney failure many, many years ago. May he rest in peace. Hopefully, you shall live a long and prosperous life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> David died of kidney failure many, many years ago. May he rest in peace. Hopefully, you shall live a long and prosperous life. Paix, mon ami.


As you wish. He can no longer respond.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> As you wish. He can no longer respond.


"For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism."  Let's cool down our disagreements and return to politics in the good old USA. OK?

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Millionaire Mitt: It's 'Fair' For Me To Pay Lower Taxes Than Middle Class Americans | ThinkProgress



> ROMNEY: Yeah, I think it’s the right way to encourage economic growth, to get people to invest, to start businesses, to put people to work.
> There is little economic evidence to support Romney’s argument that higher capital gains and dividend rates will discourage investment. As Paul Krugman has pointed out, the current very low rate of 15 percent, wasn’t enacted until 2003. Between 1986 and 1997 “long-term capital gains were taxed at close to 30 percent” and under President Clinton, the rate sat at 20 percent, while dividends were treated as regular income. “I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain,” Warren Buffet explains.
> Indeed, investors continued to invest, despite the higher rates, and throughout the Clinton period, the nation actually saw stronger investment. So it’s difficult to take Romney’s argument seriously — both because history shows that the wealthy don’t need a capital gains rate 20 points below the top marginal income tax rate (currently 35 percent) in order to invest their money and because Romney himself believes he paid too little in investment taxes, choosing to forfeit $1.8 million in charitable deductions.


History and facts seem to matter very little to those who blindly argue for Romney's plan.


----------



## Rps

Was watching some Detroit TV today and they had a guest journalist on who made what I think is an extremely valid point: there are no moderates anymore. I thought about this and I think he is right. LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough .... you hear this often with the current U.S. election .... I'm wondering if the GOP will split after this election into two distinct groups, a Jeb Bush Conservative group and a Tea Party group .... neither of those I would class as moderate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Was watching some Detroit TV today and they had a guest journalist on who made what I think is an extremely valid point: there are no moderates anymore. I thought about this and I think he is right. LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough .... you hear this often with the current U.S. election .... I'm wondering if the GOP will split after this election into two distinct groups, a Jeb Bush Conservative group and a Tea Party group .... neither of those I would class as moderate.


I disagree, Rp. I feel that there are not many moderate liberals and conservatives within the mainstream of each party, but they do exist. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Hi Dr. G, if they do then they are the very silent minority........


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Was watching some Detroit TV today and they had a guest journalist on who made what I think is an extremely valid point: there are no moderates anymore. I thought about this and I think he is right. LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough .... you hear this often with the current U.S. election .... I'm wondering if the GOP will split after this election into two distinct groups, a Jeb Bush Conservative group and a Tea Party group .... neither of those I would class as moderate.


I see Jeb Bush as quite moderate and not much different from the Democrats. Rather than seeing the parties as extreme, I see them as too close together. I have no real love of moderate politics--it offers little direction and fewer ideas.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hi Dr. G, if they do then they are the very silent minority........


Sad, but most likely true. This is a real sense of polarization taking place in the US these days.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, to your point above this comment might be more appropriate in another thread, but I wonder if we are any different.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> This comment might be more appropriate in another thread, but I wonder if we are any different.


Yes, this is true here. There are no longer many "Red Tories" around these days in the New Conservative Party. The Liberals need a strong leader to bring that party back to relevancy. We shall see.

Still, next week is the first of the presidential debates ............... I can't wait.


----------



## Macfury

Canada will go the same way if the NDP supplants the Liberals. Only a revived Liberal party will stop this from happening.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, this is true here. There are no longer many "Red Tories" around these days in the New Conservative Party. The Liberals need a strong leader to bring that party back to relevancy. We shall see.
> 
> Still, next week is the first of the presidential debates ............... I can't wait.


I am wondering if the "prez" is the key to this. Not meaning Obama but the individual who is running. Wasn't it under Reagan that the U.S. had Red-Dems and Blue-GOPs? I'm thinking unless we have a leader who thinks that way a parties mainstream branding will take over ....


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I am wondering if the "prez" is the key to this. Not meaning Obama but the individual who is running. Wasn't it under Reagan that the U.S. had Red-Dems and Blue-GOPs? I'm thinking unless we have a leader who thinks that way a parties mainstream branding will take over ....


Reagan happened to have been a Leader with a capital "L" so he could sway people to him. The only president that comes close to being so persuasive was Clinton. There are still plenty of Blue GOPers known as RINOS. However, the Red Democrats seem to have become extinct.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I am wondering if the "prez" is the key to this. Not meaning Obama but the individual who is running. Wasn't it under Reagan that the U.S. had Red-Dems and Blue-GOPs? I'm thinking unless we have a leader who thinks that way a parties mainstream branding will take over ....


While FDR most likely had more bills passed that he signed, LBJ was the master at working with Congress to get the bills he wanted to sign passed through Congress. No Amercian leader in the 20th/21st century helped to pass more legislation that helped more people than these two .............. and many of these bills continue on today to help people.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, I have often thought that the "Kennedy" era was actually due to LBJ. I think he was one of the most effective President's the U.S. has ever had, but sadly, I think history will tarnish him due to his war efforts.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Sad, but most likely true. This is a real sense of polarization taking place in the US these days.


That's very true. At least that's what the parties want imo.

But I still believe as you said, there are many moderates, the 'silent majority' if you will, who will swing based on who they feel will make a better president. I don't think it helps either prez candidate to swing to far to either side.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I have often thought that the "Kennedy" era was actually due to LBJ. I think he was one of the most effective President's the U.S. has ever had, but sadly, I think history will tarnish him due to his war efforts.


Well, next to FDR, my favorite president, LBJ will go down as the president who signed into law more legislation that had direct impacts upon helping the social and economic and political (i.e., voting rights) lives in my lifetime. FDR did more because there was a dire need for immediate assistance, and for the fact that he was in office longer, and also experienced WWII. LBJ's record shall be tarnished by the war in Vietnam, but it can't tarnish the many, many pieces of legislation that truly helped people. That, to me, is the main mark of a successful president.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> That's very true. At least that's what the parties want imo.
> 
> But I still believe as you said, there are many moderates, the 'silent majority' if you will, who will swing based on who they feel will make a better president. I don't think it helps either prez candidate to swing to far to either side.


A valid point, gt. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## i-rui

Rps said:


> Was watching some Detroit TV today and they had a guest journalist on who made what I think is an extremely valid point: there are no moderates anymore. I thought about this and I think he is right. LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough .... you hear this often with the current U.S. election ....


i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here as it's contradictory. 

"there are no moderates anymore" vs. "LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough "

??

regarding US politics, i don't think compared to any other wealthy western country could you even call democrats "liberal". Their policies are at best centrist (and in truth probably center-right), and the GOP has been pushed to the far right by the tea party.

the net effect is the "center" has been dragged right. an inherent problem with a 2 party system.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> ...there are no moderates anymore. I thought about this and I think he is right. LIberals are not liberal enough, and Conservatives are not conservative enough


WRT American politics, I think the Republicans have been moving consistently further and further to the right, all the while asking for the Democrats to "meet in the middle." Unfortunately, Obama has been as sucker for this tactic, and is fairly criticized for being the "compromiser-in-chief." As it's been so successful, the Republicans have continued to move to the right, and are now residing in Loonie Land, where Reagan is a "liberal" and Obama and the Democrats are now positioned to the Right of where the Republicans stood twenty years ago.

So the Conservatives have become more conservative, and the Liberals have become more conservative... there are no liberals any more.

{edit to add: I didn't see i-rui's post before I wrote mine, but yeah; what i-rui said.}


----------



## Rps

i-rui, my point is that no matter how one candidate aligns, everyone disapproves of the moderate view. Case in point, Romney as not being conservative enough.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/opinion/mitt-romney-class-warrior.html?_r=0

An interesting NY Times editorial entitled "Mitt Romney, Class Warrior". 

"It turns out that Mitt Romney was right. There is class warfare being waged in the 2012 campaign. It is Mr. Romney who is waging it, not President Obama, and he’s stood the whole idea on its head. 

When you think of class warfare, you probably think of inciting anger, resentment and jealousy among the have-nots against the haves. That’s what Mr. Romney has accused Mr. Obama of doing, but those charges have always been false. The truth is that Mr. Romney has been trying to incite the anger of a small slice of the richest Americans who need no government assistance but get it anyway, against the working poor, older Americans, the disabled workers and veterans, and even a significant chunk of middle-class Americans.

Romney's problem is one that Republicans have been struggling with more broadly for years.

Many in the party have forgotten an essential element of Ronald Reagan's legacy: his insistence that conservatism had to be packaged as a positive force, as an argument about how to expand the global rights of individuals and make all American families more secure. He was determined to appeal to middle- and working-class Americans who were not satisfied with the Democrats."


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> i-rui, my point is that no matter how one candidate aligns, everyone disapproves of the moderate view. Case in point, Romney as not being conservative enough.


If someone took a moderate position, they would be vilified in the media as being a socialist extremist; hence the absence of apparently "moderate' views... they're out there, but they're not presented as being moderate anymore. I understand what you're saying; there are the Ann Coulters etc. who will shriek endlessly that whatever position anyone presents is not sufficiently "conservative" (I swear if God Himself came down and handed her 100% tax breaks for the rich, she'd call him a "Sissy Eurosocalist who hates America"), but the opposite is not true of the Democrats. The voices on calling for the Democrats to stop following the Republicans down the rabbit hole of right-wing lunacy are not extremists; they're rational, well-educated people who's positions are supported with facts and reason, not mindless faith that Baby Jebus want's tax breaks for the rich.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> If someone took a moderate position, they would be vilified in the media as being a socialist extremist; hence the absence of apparently "moderate' views... they're out there, but they're not presented as being moderate anymore. I understand what you're saying; there are the Ann Coulters etc. who will shriek endlessly that whatever position anyone presents is not sufficiently "conservative" (I swear if God Himself came down and handed her 100% tax breaks for the rich, she'd call him a "Sissy Eurosocalist who hates America"), but the opposite is not true of the Democrats. The voices on calling for the Democrats to stop following the Republicans down the rabbit hole of right-wing lunacy are not extremists; they're rational, well-educated people who's positions are supported with facts and reason, not mindless faith that Baby Jebus want's tax breaks for the rich.


That view is quite amazing. If the Democrats were more rational, the country would not be in this mess today. The problems they have created are their own.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Many in the party have forgotten an essential element of Ronald Reagan's legacy: his insistence that conservatism had to be packaged as a positive force, as an argument about how to expand the global rights of individuals and make all American families more secure. He was determined to appeal to middle- and working-class Americans who were not satisfied with the Democrats."


Yes, but not through government assistance. Reagan's message counted on these people to take advantage of the economic opportunity his administration created. His swing support in 1980 included many who simply no longer trusted heavy government intervention.


----------



## Rps

bryanc, I can see your point and agree in principle. My concern is that we ( in North America it seems ) rely on the media ( TV and now the Net ) so much that what I fear is the commercial-media as being the holders of truth...and they, for the most part, seem radical conservative ... this driving the information, at least to me, skews moderate thinking to the right. It is little wonder the slope of U.S. politics is to the right. I believe it was Ike who said fear industrial-militarianism ..... maybe Obama and Romney should say fear the media-republicanism.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> bryanc, I can see your point and agree in principle. My concern is that we ( in North America it seems ) rely on the media ( TV and now the Net ) so much that what I fear is the commercial-media as being the holders of truth...and they, for the most part, seem radical conservative ... this driving the information, at least to me, skews moderate thinking to the right. .


I see the opposite. Most of the media skews left and drive moderates left.Check out some of the recent polling on non-partisans.

Conservative media is more focused and better at popularizing its message, but is a distinct minority.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> If someone took a moderate position, they would be vilified in the media as being a socialist extremist; hence the absence of apparently "moderate' views... they're out there, but they're not presented as being moderate anymore. I understand what you're saying; there are the Ann Coulters etc. who will shriek endlessly that whatever position anyone presents is not sufficiently "conservative" (I swear if God Himself came down and handed her 100% tax breaks for the rich, she'd call him a "Sissy Eurosocalist who hates America"), but the opposite is not true of the Democrats. *The voices on calling for the Democrats to stop following the Republicans down the rabbit hole of right-wing lunacy are not extremists; they're rational, well-educated people who's positions are supported with facts and reason, not mindless faith that Baby Jebus want's tax breaks for the rich*.


:clap:


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Most of the media skews left



This, in the context of the most concentrated corporate ownership of media in history, can only be explained by your perspective being so far off the end of the Right-Left spectrum that *EVERYTHING* appears skewed to the left in the same way that, from the north pole, every direction is south.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> This, in the context of the most concentrated corporate ownership of media in history, can only be explained by your perspective being so far off the end of the Right-Left spectrum that *EVERYTHING* appears skewed to the left in the same way that, from the north pole, every direction is south.


bryanc, how familiar are you with various U.S.media outlets? If i were to give you a list of newspapers and networks would you personally be able to identify them as either skewing left or right, or would you need to count on a secondary source to back it up?


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> [the media], for the most part, seem radical conservative ... this driving the information, at least to me, skews moderate thinking to the right.


I agree, and I think several media analysts have been noting and warning of this effect of the concentration of media into fewer-and-fewer corporate hands for a few decades.

This may not have all been entirely intentional, but the net effect is that the cultural discussion of political issues has been so consistently and often extremely skewed to the right for so long that most North Americans can't even distinguish between socialism and communism any more, and reflexively think that government of any kind is bad.

I think it would be interesting for most North Americans to look at Dr. Lawrence Britt's "Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism" and consider them with respect to current political parties; sadly, even modern Democrats (and Liberals in Canada), have moved so far to the Right that they're flirting with fascism, but the Republicans have positioned themselves cheek-by-jowel with Benito Mussolini.


Dr. Lawrence Britt said:


> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
> 
> 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
> 
> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
> 
> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
> domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
> 
> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
> 
> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
> 
> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
> 
> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
> 
> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
> 
> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
> 
> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
> 
> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
> 
> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
> 
> 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> bryanc, how familiar are you with various U.S.media outlets? If i were to give you a list of newspapers and networks would you personally be able to identify them as either skewing left or right, or would you need to count on a secondary source to back it up?


Mother Jones = centre-left
NPR = center
Everything else = right to extreme right.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> mother jones = centre-left
> npr = center
> everything else = right to extreme right.


msnbc?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> msnbc?


Great example; MSNBC is viewed as being a counter to Fox News, but it's simply another corporate mouthpiece driving thinking to the right. The very fact that a media outlet owned by General Electric, Microsoft, Comcast, etc. can get away with describing itself as "progressive" and is perceived as being "left leaning" clearly illustrates just how far to the right our perspective has been shifted.


{edit to add: This is all sock-puppetry; the corporate plutocrats have invented these ostensibly opposing voices of the "right" and "left" to use like a Punch and Judy show; setting up straw man arguments and presenting them as if they were credible positions of the "Intellectual/Academic Left". This has served to stupefy the American (and, as collateral damage Canadian) people, leaving them both not-knowing what alternatives to suicidal capitalism may be, and reflexively linking any alternatives that may be presented to euroSocialist Nannystatism.}


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Great example; MSNBC is viewed as being a counter to Fox News, but it's simply another corporate mouthpiece driving thinking to the right.


It would strike me that you find Obama and the Democrat Party so far right that support for that president is actually puppet support for a right wing agenda.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> It would strike me that you find Obama and the Democrat Party so far right that support for that president is actually puppet support for a right wing agenda.


Yes, I certainly see the Democratic Party, in their current incarnation, as a right wing party. They're simply less extremist and less integrated with the religious wing-nuts than the Republicans, but they by no means represent anything remotely liberal or progressive. But I don't support either of them; it's like when a playground fight breaks out between the too biggest bullies in the school... you're not really hoping either will win, but there's a certain schadenfreude in seeing the worse of the two take a beating.

Speaking of which, have you seen that the Vegas bookies are putting 3:1 on an Obama victory?


----------



## groovetube

I think it's starting to get clearer



bryanc said:


> Great example; MSNBC is viewed as being a counter to Fox News, but it's simply another corporate mouthpiece driving thinking to the right. The very fact that a media outlet owned by General Electric, Microsoft, Comcast, etc. can get away with describing itself as "progressive" and is perceived as being "left leaning" clearly illustrates just how far to the right our perspective has been shifted.
> 
> 
> {edit to add: This is all sock-puppetry; the corporate plutocrats have invented these ostensibly opposing voices of the "right" and "left" to use like a Punch and Judy show; setting up straw man arguments and presenting them as if they were credible positions of the "Intellectual/Academic Left". This has served to stupefy the American (and, as collateral damage Canadian) people, leaving them both not-knowing what alternatives to suicidal capitalism may be, and reflexively linking any alternatives that may be presented to euroSocialist Nannystatism.}


I couldn't agree with you more. The general public has been completely had on this, to the point where people actually think they are socialist leftist commies.

They wouldn't know a socialist if it landed on their head at this point.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, but not through government assistance. Reagan's message counted on these people to take advantage of the economic opportunity his administration created. His swing support in 1980 included many who simply no longer trusted heavy government intervention.


"Our Republican leaders tell us economic laws—sacred, inviolable, unchangeable—cause panics which one could prevent," President Franklin D. Roosevelt said in his inaugural address in 1932, "But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving. We must lay hold of the fact that economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings."


----------



## Rps

Dr. G I agree fully with your above post. What is the purpose of government if not to assist its citizens in achieving their goals ..... and contrary to political popular believe, virtually all of humanity has the same set of goals: to be safe, to be loved, to be fed, to have peace, to raise their children so they too can be safe, loved, fed, and have peace to raise their children. All the other stuff ( wealth, power, fame ) in the scheme of things is really secondary. To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals. It shouldn't matter if one is right; left; or centrist .... what we seem to be fighting over is how to pay for them and that constant deafening roar is drowning out the cries for help by those who are less fortunate. And make no mistake, at sometime or other we all will be drowned out by that noise.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G I agree fully with your above post. What is the purpose of government if not to assist its citizens in achieving their goals ..... and contrary to political popular believe, virtually all of humanity has the same set of goals: to be safe, to be loved, to be fed, to have peace, to raise their children so they too can be safe, loved, fed, and have peace to raise their children. All the other stuff ( wealth, power, fame ) in the scheme of things is really secondary. To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals. It shouldn't matter if one is right; left; or centrist .... what we seem to be fighting over is how to pay for them and that constant deafening roar is drowning out the cries for help by those who are less fortunate. And make no mistake, at sometime or other we all will be drowned out by that noise.


All too true. FDR's mother was always shocked when she would hear of another one of her son's New Deal projects to help the poor, the hungry, the unemployed and the homeless. It was said that she changed her mind when she saw the Dorothea Lange "Migrant Mother" picture, which depicted a destitute mother and an out of work pea picker in California. File:Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I recall reading an interview by the little girl hiding her face on her mom's right shoulder. She said that they were destitute, hungry, with no where to go or stay, and that she felt ashamed to be that poor.

In 1960, Lange spoke about her experience taking the photograph:

"I saw and approached the hungry and desperate mother, as if drawn by a magnet. I do not remember how I explained my presence or my camera to her, but I do remember she asked me no questions. I made five exposures, working closer and closer from the same direction. I did not ask her name or her history. She told me her age, that she was thirty-two. She said that they had been living on frozen vegetables from the surrounding fields, and birds that the children killed. She had just sold the tires from her car to buy food. There she sat in that lean-to tent with her children huddled around her, and seemed to know that my pictures might help her, and so she helped me. There was a sort of equality about it."

I guess that this is another anecdote that some dislike, but it was pictures like this that helped to show all Americans what was happening in America. Dorothea Lange's work brought the plight of the poor and forgotten — particularly sharecroppers, displaced farm families, and migrant workers — to public attention. Distributed free to newspapers across the country, her poignant images became icons of the era.

"To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals." Luckily, FDR and those New Dealers felt the same way, and there are people alive today who would strongly agree with your views.

Your voice is the voice of reason and compassion.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Dr. G I agree fully with your above post. What is the purpose of government if not to assist its citizens in achieving their goals ..... and contrary to political popular believe, virtually all of humanity has the same set of goals: to be safe, to be loved, to be fed, to have peace, to raise their children so they too can be safe, loved, fed, and have peace to raise their children. All the other stuff ( wealth, power, fame ) in the scheme of things is really secondary. To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals. It shouldn't matter if one is right; left; or centrist .... what we seem to be fighting over is how to pay for them and that constant deafening roar is drowning out the cries for help by those who are less fortunate. And make no mistake, at sometime or other we all will be drowned out by that noise.


Safe? Check.
Peace? Check.

But the government will make you feel loved, feed you and raise your children? Or help you to do these things? I disagree fundamentally with this idea of the role of government.


----------



## groovetube

I think you may need to explain that it isn't the government who loves you or feeds your kids.

Or not


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Your voice is the voice of reason and compassion.


It is also the voice of enlightened self-interest; those people who have lost hope for achieving the goals articulated by Rps are the most dangerous to the status quo. They have nothing to loose, so they will often rise up in rebellion (unfortunately often under the leadership of men* with racist or other unsavoury agendas) or otherwise destabilize the social order on which the affluent depend.

So even the 1% will benefit from a more fair and equitable society. They may have to settle for only 3 yachts and 2 private jets, but they won't have to worry so much about jihadists with shoulder-mounted rocket launchers spoiling their vacation.

All societies engage in wealth redistribution, so there is no reason to see this as something to be avoided. The only questions are "how much" "under what circumstances" and "from/to whom". We currently live in a society in which wealth is being transferred at unprecedented rates and circumstances from the poor too the wealthy (hence the increasing divide between the rich and the poor). Reversing, or at the very least slowing that flow is a laudable goal for any government.

*why is it always men?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Safe? Check.
> Peace? Check.
> 
> But the government will make you feel loved, feed you and raise your children? Or help you to do these things? I disagree fundamentally with this idea of the role of government.


Parents are the ones that love and raise the children, Macfury. When in need, the government will help out with the feeding, clothing and housing of the children. This is where we fundamentally disagree, because without the help of government, the government of us all, many of these children would starve.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Parents are the ones that love and raise the children, Macfury. When in need, the government will help out with the feeding, clothing and housing of the children. This is where we fundamentally disagree, because without the help of government, the government of us all, many of these children would starve.


rps said that the government should assist people to achieve these goals. 

While I understand why the government may step in to help people who are temporarily down on their luck or disabled, but it should be situationally dependent. I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry.


----------



## groovetube

Is it really necessary to squabble about something so insanely obvious? Can we get on with the thread without this derailment?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> rps said that the government should assist people to achieve these goals.
> 
> While I understand why the government may step in to help people who are temporarily down on their luck or disabled, but it should be situationally dependent. I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry.


No, he said "...virtually all of humanity has the same set of goals: to be safe, to be loved, to be fed, to have peace, to raise their children so they too can be safe, loved, fed, and have peace to raise their children." These are the goals of people.

"I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry." 

I know how you hate anecdotes, but I taught a boy in Waycross, GA, who was a migrant worker's child. Most of my students were the children of tenant farmers, who had a small home and worked the land for the owner of the farm. However, this one boy was signed in to my class for a month .......... the time it took his family to raise enough to keep heading south to Florida.

I had my class make papier mache animals as a project. We used flour and water to make the paste. One day at recess, I caught this boy eating the flour and water paste. He was ashamed, but I gently said he was not in trouble and asked if he was that hungry. He had not eaten in two days. Since he had no permanent location (his family lived and traveled in an old school bus), they could never qualify for such things as food stamps. I arranged with the lunchroom ladies to have him fed in the morning, in the afternoon, and to send him home with some food for he and his sister. I wanted to pay for it out of my own pocket, but they refused my money. The subsidized meals for the majority of the children came from the federal and state government. Because he had no fixed address, he did not qualify for this subsidy.

So, knowing how you hate anecdotes, I shall end this one here. Still, for me, a government that does not care enough to feed the hungry people within it's country is not the sort of government I want to support. Governments don't have hearts, only people have hearts, but hopefully those that run the government have the compassion to reach out and feed those in true need.


----------



## Rps

bryanc;1220684 those people who have lost hope for achieving the goals articulated by Rps are the most dangerous to the status quo. [/QUOTE said:


> bryanc, as I lean to Freirean philosophy, I couldn't agree more with you on this. In fact, it may even be a "law of nature" that when those who have lost hope rise by some catalyst they often are more oppressive than those they believe are the oppressors. What was it that Dickens said in A Christmas Carol ... "fear this boy".


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> bryanc, as I lean to Freirean philosophy, I couldn't agree more with you on this. In fact, it may even be a "law of nature" that when those who have lost hope rise by some catalyst they often are more oppressive than those they believe are the oppressors. What was it that Dickens said in A Christmas Carol ... "fear this boy".


A Christmas Carol -- Ignorance & Want - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, he said "...virtually all of humanity has the same set of goals: to be safe, to be loved, to be fed, to have peace, to raise their children so they too can be safe, loved, fed, and have peace to raise their children." These are the goals of people.


followed by: 



> To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals.


----------



## Dr.G.

"To me, a government's first rule is to govern in such as way as to assist its citizens in achieving these few but human goals." Yes, he said "assist" as in to help, not to do it all.


----------



## i-rui

so you don't think there should be government food & meat inspectors?

just let the free market take care of e. coli? lol


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Is it really necessary to squabble about something so insanely obvious? Can we get on with the thread without this derailment?


Right on, brother gt. Paix, mon ami.

Let's hope for a reapeat performance in January, 2013.

Pete Seeger - This Land is Your Land - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> so you don't think there should be government food & meat inspectors?
> 
> just let the free market take care of e. coli? lol


I'm iffy on it. It may be possible that the government is more efficient in catching at least some pestilence than a voluntary program might be. On the other hand, they miss a lot and retail outlets happily promote this crap as government inspected. I would be inclined to allow competing standards--people could buy "government-approved" meat or meat guaranteed by a private Third-Party organization and simply decide which one they trusted most.


----------



## Dr.G.

"I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry." 

"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see."

Peter Paul & Mary - Blowin in the wind (Tonight In Person 1966) - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> "I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry."
> 
> "How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see."
> 
> Peter Paul & Mary - Blowin in the wind (Tonight In Person 1966) - YouTube


:lmao:

nice one G.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> :lmao:
> 
> nice one G.


Always liked that song, gt. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "I do not believe it is the government's role to feed its citizenry."
> 
> "How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see."
> 
> Peter Paul & Mary - Blowin in the wind (Tonight In Person 1966) - YouTube


The man must act according to his conscience.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I'm iffy on it. It may be possible that the government is more efficient in catching at least some pestilence than a voluntary program might be. On the other hand, they miss a lot and retail outlets happily promote this crap as government inspected. I would be inclined to allow competing standards--people could buy "government-approved" meat or meat guaranteed by a private Third-Party organization and simply decide which one they trusted most.


Okay, so now we are just playing silly buggers. You know as well as I do that any time the private sector monitors itself you are asking for trouble ..... and if you don't believe this ask Bill Clinton and the investment banks, surely you can remember how well they policed themselves back to 2008. 

Ideologists are just like little kids who have been caught in a fib .... they just can't seem to bring themselves to own up to the truth.... maybe it's because they don't know how.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The man must act according to his conscience.


Very true, mon ami.

“There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right.” 
― Martin Luther King Jr. :clap:

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
Dr.Martin Luther King Jr. :clap:

“A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory.” 
― Mark Twain


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Okay, so now we are just playing silly buggers. You know as well as I do that any time the private sector monitors itself you are asking for trouble ..... and if you don't believe this ask Bill Clinton and the investment banks, surely you can remember how well they policed themselves back to 2008.
> 
> Ideologists are just like little kids who have been caught in a fib .... they just can't seem to bring themselves to own up to the truth.... maybe it's because they don't know how.


What i see is that government inspectors hold companies to the lowest common standard. There is no incentive to do better, because everyone is government-approved. So I believe in giving a competing system a chance.

Regarding investment banks, what specifically do you mean? The fact that the government approved their phoney mortgage derivatives through FNMA and made them palatable to the market? The banks were dishonest, no doubt, but couldn't have pulled it off without government inspectors from FNMA to bless the new financial instruments.


----------



## groovetube

Actually, in reality, the reasons for the shortfalls in government inspection agencies is because, these same companies that you so wish to place your trust in are the same companies who lobby governments to lower standards for food inspection. Those damn pesky regulations the right is so vocal about. Also, the right is currently decimating this, clawing back funding.

The idea that we should trust the same companies who lobby for less regulations with, regulation, is completely and unbelievably stupid.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I'm wondering ...do I sense that you think there would be no such thing as conflict of interest ..... if not I'm wondering how you would define it?
One of the reasons health inspection, and probably many others, appear weak to you is that the government doesn't spend the money on it .... that is , of course, until a major issue hits the fan. Again, our system is not exempt from this behaviour, but the U.S. and its lobby groups has this to a fine art.

Getting back to the purpose of the thread, I believe one of the major problems with U.S. politics is that lobby interests would rather have the government spend billions on the military ( under the guise of defending freedom ) rather than education, which would guarantee it IMHO.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I'm wondering ...do I sense that you think there would be no such thing as conflict of interest ..... if not I'm wondering how you would define it?
> One of the reasons health inspection, and probably many others, appear weak to you is that the government doesn't spend the money on it .... that is , of course, until a major issue hits the fan. Again, our system is not exempt from this behaviour, but the U.S. and its lobby groups has this to a fine art.
> 
> Getting back to the purpose of the thread, I believe one of the major problems with U.S. politics is that lobby interests would rather have the government spend billions on the military ( under the guise of defending freedom ) rather than education, which would guarantee it IMHO.


There would be conflict of interest. The mortgage derivatives were equally blessed by FNMA and investment rating firms.

Supposing meat inspections worked like this. US government spends as much as it needs to in order to ensure meat is safe, and companies decide whether to sell meat either approved or unapproved. Not suggesting this be done, merely asking how you see it.

I doubt very much that spending more on education in the U.S. would make them freer. Peopke were freer 50 years ago when they simply taught Civics.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Supposing meat inspections worked like this. US government spends as much as it needs to in order to ensure meat is safe, and companies decide whether to sell meat either approved or unapproved.


What would happen is that the wealthy would buy "premium" meat that was inspected by the 3rd party inspectors you proposed earlier, and enjoy substantially reduced health risks. The poor would buy the cheapest products they could, which would include un-inspected crap, and suffer the consequences, and the Republicans would say the government programs are not necessary and should be cut because no one uses them.

This is a clear example of how socializing the costs of providing safety inspection levels the playing feild: have the government do it right for everyone... the poor benefit disproportionately, but the rich don't suffer.



> I doubt very much that spending more on education in the U.S. would make them freer. Peopke were freer 50 years ago when they simply taught Civics.


While people may have been less constrained in some ways 50 years ago, that was largely due to the fact that there were only 2 billion people, and it was the baby-boom era during which anyone who was willing to work could do so, and most people in the western world enjoyed a continuously escalating standard of living because of the growing post-war economy. As the human population careens out of control towards 8 billion, and the global ecology strains under the load, economic expansion is no longer possible. We have reached (indeed almost certainly exceeded) our carrying capacity, so many forces (some of which are manifested economically) are pushing us back. Our consumption of global resources (esp. WRT energy, water, and air) will have to decrease. These are non-negotiable constraints on our freedom.

The ways in which we organize our societies and laws put further constraints on our freedoms, and these are not always relatable to the natural constraints our growing population puts on our freedoms. However, it's not hard to see how, as resources become scarce, human tribes begin to see justice and fairness as less important than ensuring their own comforts and survival; so freedom is an early casualty.


----------



## SINC

Good grief:

Why Plane Windows Don't Roll Down, as Romney Would Like - Yahoo! News


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Good grief:
> 
> Why Plane Windows Don't Roll Down, as Romney Would Like - Yahoo! News


I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think he was referring to the the fact that no additional sources of oxygen were available.


----------



## groovetube

It's Obama's fault that planes can't unroll their windows. Him and he other socialists.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Good grief:
> 
> Why Plane Windows Don't Roll Down, as Romney Would Like - Yahoo! News


I think the Mitt should find out the answer for himself. He can easily afford to have that private jet modified with one roll down window. I suggest he then unfasten the safety belt and roll that sucker down at say 30,000 feet.

Could serve as an acid test of his religious beliefs as well.


----------



## jimbotelecom

eMacMan said:


> I think the Mitt should find out the answer for himself. He can easily afford to have that private jet modified with one roll down window. I suggest he then unfasten the safety belt and roll that sucker down at say 30,000 feet.
> 
> Could serve as an acid test of his religious beliefs as well.


Sucker!


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I think the Mitt should find out the answer for himself. He can easily afford to have that private jet modified with one roll down window. I suggest he then unfasten the safety belt and roll that sucker down at say 30,000 feet.


How about 20,000 feet?





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






See 1:30


----------



## Dr.G.

Pants on fire????????????

Romney: My ads have been ‘spot on’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." - Mark Twain


----------



## groovetube

He's just making it up as he goes along.

Romney Says Obama Did Not Raise Taxes 'In His First Four Years' | ThinkProgress


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Pants on fire????????????
> 
> Romney: My ads have been ‘spot on’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
> 
> "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." - Mark Twain


With all due respect, Dr. G., Obama's changes to that regulation alter the law so that what was once a requirement is now a "goal." Obama has successfully gutted workfare _requirements_. I have read the regulation myself and the CNN blog is simply wrong. States can actually meet the requirements of the current version of the regulations by meeting a certain number of transitions from welfare to work--however that ratio can also be met by increasing the number of people on welfare.

If you think I'm wrong, debate me with the actual wording of the regulations, not a link.


----------



## groovetube

Actually, if you did read it, you'd know your statement is completely false.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...omney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> With all due respect, Dr. G., Obama's changes to that regulation alter the law so that what was once a requirement is now a "goal." Obama has successfully gutted workfare _requirements_. I have read the regulation myself and the CNN blog is simply wrong.





groovetube said:


> Actually, if you did read it, you'd know your statement is completely false.
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...omney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/


Well, you can't be right.  I'll have to go with the one that is always right. That makes matters far simplier.


----------



## Rps

groovetube said:


> Actually, if you did read it, you'd know your statement is completely false.
> 
> PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says Barack Obama?s plan for welfare reform: "They just send you your check."


GT, I've worked with government legislation for many years, and it is not always black and white...that said, these "truth in policy" sites and articles can be cherry picked to meet their agenda. Unless the full and related legislation is read and analyzed, to me, the purveyors of these items are just part of the campaign process.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I've worked with government legislation for many years, and it is not always black and white...that said, these "truth in policy" sites and articles can be cherry picked to meet their agenda. Unless the full and related legislation is read and analyzed, to me, the purveyors of these items are just part of the campaign process.


rps, the trick here is that states need to show that they have placed more welfare cases in jobs than they have done under the current system. However, that can be achieved by simply adding more welfare recipients to the roster, on the statistical basis that a few more would find work.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> GT, I've worked with government legislation for many years, and it is not always black and white...that said, these "truth in policy" sites and articles can be cherry picked to meet their agenda. Unless the full and related legislation is read and analyzed, to me, the purveyors of these items are just part of the campaign process.


That's all well and good, but provide something concrete to back up Romney's assertions. 

Besides this 'cherry picked' fact checker, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone beyond republican talking point repeaters that would agree with Romney's assertion, or that would have anything beyond some dreamed up scenario.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> rps, the trick here is that states need to show that they have placed more welfare cases in jobs than they have done under the current system. However, that can be achieved by simply adding more welfare recipients to the roster, on the statistical basis that a few more would find work.


They could also construct a few thousand strawmans with guns and say they have an army too.


----------



## Rps

GT, not to be seen as argumentative, which is not my intent, but I'm only drawing to your attention to the nature of how government legislation is written and that unless you have access to all related document and knowledge of the jargon, you can pretty much draw any conclusion you wish on any given subject...since most do not take the time to link all the related gems together. What you say may indeed be true, but unless one can lay out the "line" references, which few can ( this is even true of the legislators ) we are in the world of opinion. What Romney is guilty of is poor PR, he has tried to follow our Liberal approach to campaigning which is state a goal without much detail as to how. I agree that in this day and age simply stating the "what" will not longer suffice, but to be fair, Obama is a little guilty of this as well. That said, Romney had better do well in the debates if he is to have a chance. His "strength" is he has had lots of practice in the recent year or so ( in securing his nomination ) while Obama may be a little out of practice. Romney is also good on counter-point, where Obama is not. It should be interesting.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> GT, not to be seen as argumentative, which is not my intent, but I'm only drawing to your attention to the nature of how government legislation is written and that unless you have access to all related document and knowledge of the jargon, you can pretty much draw any conclusion you wish on any given subject...since most do not take the time to link all the related gems together. What you say may indeed be true, but unless one can lay out the "line" references, which few can ( this is even true of the legislators ) we are in the world of opinion. What Romney is guilty of is poor PR, he has tried to follow our Liberal approach to campaigning which is state a goal without much detail as to how. I agree that in this day and age simply stating the "what" will not longer suffice, but to be fair, Obama is a little guilty of this as well. That said, Romney had better do well in the debates if he is to have a chance. His "strength" is he has had lots of practice in the recent year or so ( in securing his nomination ) while Obama may be a little out of practice. Romney is also good on counter-point, where Obama is not. It should be interesting.


np I don't think you're being argumentative at all.

Well, taking what you say here, for Romney to make the assumptions he's making here seems even more ridiculous then. However:


> Even a Republican architect of the law, Ron Haskins, told NPR: "There's no plausible scenario under which it really constitutes a serious attack on welfare reform."


link
But then, as you say, Romney seems to be more about words that sound good, without actually having any facts or concrete plans to back them up.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> But then, as you say, Romney seems to be more about words that sound good, without actually having any facts or concrete plans to back them up.


Like his conservative fellow travellers here in Canada, Romney has plenty of plans; he just doesn't want to talk about them in public. And facts are to be avoided at all costs. If there are facts that conflict with ideology, the facts are to be disputed, muddled, misinterpreted, and dismissed as 'irrelevant'. If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. The best situation is one in which no facts are available, so that ideology is not constrained. So it's always a good idea to get rid of scientists, academics, statisticians, journalists, and other researchers who turn up pesky facts.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Like his conservative fellow travellers here in Canada, Romney has plenty of plans; he just doesn't want to talk about them in public. And facts are to be avoided at all costs. If there are facts that conflict with ideology, the facts are to be disputed, muddled, misinterpreted, and dismissed as 'irrelevant'. If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. The best situation is one in which no facts are available, so that ideology is not constrained. So it's always a good idea to get rid of scientists, academics, statisticians, journalists, and other researchers who turn up pesky facts.


Yes because as we all know, Scientists are far more biased and beholden to a certain political ideology than say a conservative prime minister.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> So it's always a good idea to get rid of scientists, academics, statisticians, journalists, and other researchers who turn up pesky facts.


How are they being "gotten rid of" int he U.S.?


----------



## groovetube

perhaps that was a reference to our conservative government here in Canada.

Perhaps.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> How are they being "gotten rid of" int he U.S.?


Look at what happens to funding for basic research (i.e. non-military) under Republican administrations. Bush governed from his "gut", and was proud of it. What do you think Romney would do to stem-cell research? 

But it's clearly not a phenomenon restricted to the U.S. Conservative politicians everywhere hate academics and intellectuals.

Indeed, I've raised the question before regarding the strong correlation between education (i.e. knowing stuff), and progressiveness (i.e. leaning to the left politically). Why do you think that is?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Look at what happens to funding for basic research (i.e. non-military) under Republican administrations. Bush governed from his "gut", and was proud of it. What do you think Romney would do to stem-cell research?


Perhaps control federal funding of stem cell research, while it continues on the state level.



bryanc said:


> Indeed, I've raised the question before regarding the strong correlation between education (i.e. knowing stuff), and progressiveness (i.e. leaning to the left politically). Why do you think that is?


It is not.


----------



## Dr.G.

Tough? - YouTube

This is not good for the Romney/Ryan dynasty.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Tough? - YouTube
> 
> This is not good for the Romney/Ryan dynasty.


This is the kind of nonsense which will get Obama voters to say "tut-tut" but will have no effect on overall votes. Pretty weak sauce.

Let's try a better one: How can Obama get tough on China when he's borrowed trillions of dollars from them that he can't pay back?


----------



## groovetube

Of course, if the message were reversed by the Romney campaign, it'd be 'hot fire' sauce.


----------



## groovetube

I guess the 'pretty weak sauce' is helping Obama lead Romney by 10 points in Ohio.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> It is not.


You have the ability to deny reality of a typical right-wing demagogue. There is a well-recognized and well-documented correlation between education and liberalism (also between education and atheism) that has been verified by many studies. Sociologists argue about *why* these things may be correlated, but they no longer argue about the empirically verifiable fact that they are.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You have the ability to deny reality of a typical right-wing demagogue. There is a well-recognized and well-documented correlation between education and liberalism (also between education and atheism) that has been verified by many studies. Sociologists argue about *why* these things may be correlated, but they no longer argue about the empirically verifiable fact that they are.


Yes, the author of the study, Kanazawa, also seeks the answers to other tough questions like his famous query: “Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?”


----------



## groovetube

You'll notice how he singled out one, but ignored the fact that you said, "verified by many studies. Sociologists argue about *why* these things may be correlated, but they no longer argue about the empirically verifiable fact that they are."

It's almost a self fulfilling prophesy.


----------



## Macfury

These tend not to get reported as much when they happen to Republicans:

Report: Racist pics sent to Mia Love - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO.com

At any rate, it's the police's opinion that this doesn't constitute a crime.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, this is another "let's argue for the sake of it" .... you might as well contend the world is flat ... bryanc is right there is a direct link between education and ( although I don't like to use the term and would prefer enlightened decision ) liberalism. Virtually in every country in the world the uneducated are prone to be followers rather than leaders and, blatantly "conservative" ( what ever that term means in their jurisdiction ).


----------



## Rps

Bryanc, I'm wondering if Romney is in the wrong party ..... based on his administrative past .... I'm wondering if he is more of a Democrat in spin than a GOP, but is caught in his party's line.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, this is another "let's argue for the sake of it" .... you might as well contend the world is flat ... bryanc is right there is a direct link between education and ( although I don't like to use the term and would prefer enlightened decision ) liberalism. Virtually in every country in the world the uneducated are prone to be followers rather than leaders and, blatantly "conservative" ( what ever that term means in their jurisdiction ).


This is just a trope that people in the liberal camp believe. There are obviously links between educastion and leadership, but no links between leadership and liberalism, for example.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> This is just a trope that people in the liberal camp believe. There are obviously links between educastion and leadership, but no links between leadership and liberalism, for example.


I do agree with that point, but I'm not sure that is what bryanc meant with his statement.


----------



## bryanc

I certainly did not intend to imply correlation between leadership and education. I simply asked if MF had an opinion on the empirically demonstrable correlation between education and liberalism.

His response, which is that he denies any such correlation exists, is typical of the reality-denying conservative. Don't like the facts? Deny them. Spread FUD. Attack the messengers. Defund the scientists. Confuse the public about the facts. Argue that there is no consensus among experts on any given topic that your ideologically-driven agenda conflicts with reality.

The irony is that these same conservatives then accuse liberals of being "illogical" and "soft minded."


----------



## partsguy

Nice broad brushstrokes there, bryanc.


----------



## Macfury

partsguy said:


> Nice broad brushstrokes there, bryanc.


Living inside an acdemic bubble sometimes provides one with a peculiar lens.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Living inside an acdemic bubble sometimes provides one with a peculiar lens.


True .............. a finely tuned and polished lens with which to see clearly. We are in agreement once again. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

the irony of macfury's last post is hilarious. 

nice one G.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> True .............. a finely tuned and polished lens with which to see clearly. We are in agreement once again. Paix, mon ami.


Aw heck Dr. G... you've got to admit that academics hardly ever know what they're talking about when it comes to reality... I mean, it's not like scientists ever manage to predict or explain natural phenomena, or economists are able to describe relationships between supply and demand, or sociologists are very good at correlating demographic phenomena with social behaviour... we just make up a lot of fancy-sounding BS and get paid to sit around pontificating despite our deplorable track record


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Aw heck Dr. G... you've got to admit that academics hardly ever know what they're talking about when it comes to reality... I mean, it's not like scientists ever manage to predict or explain natural phenomena, or economists are able to describe relationships between supply and demand, or sociologists are very good at correlating demographic phenomena with social behaviour... we just make up a lot of fancy-sounding BS and get paid to sit around pontificating despite our deplorable track record


Well, so long as we get published in peer reviewed journals, which are reviewed by other academics, and get grants, then it makes no difference if we are correct or not. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> the irony of macfury's last post is hilarious.
> 
> nice one G.


Wait ............. are you saying that Macfury and I have not reached a point of agreement?????


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Wait ............. are you saying that Macfury and I have not reached a point of agreement?????


oh I think you did!! :lmao:


----------



## bryanc

*The political compass*

Just for the heck of it, I just completed the [fundamentally flawed] political compass survey, and had myself plotted along with the the 2012 American Presidential aspirants. I find it interesting how similar they all are to each other, and how diametrically opposed I am to all of them. Good thing I'm not an American.


----------



## Rps

I took it as well .........OMG I'm Gandhi...


----------



## steviewhy

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> oh I think you did!! :lmao:


Oh, that's better. Well, here is something that Macfury and I will also agree upon. This is not good for Romney ................ unless he can spin it differently in the first debate. We shall see.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- "Republicans may soon lose a key talking point. According to data released Thursday, President Obama may now be a net job creator. 

In the year following Obama's inauguration, the U.S. economy lost about 4.3 million jobs. But new figures released Thursday show 4.4 million jobs have been added back since then."

New data shows Obama may be a job creator, after all - Sep. 27, 2012


----------



## MacGuiver

bryanc said:


> You have the ability to deny reality of a typical right-wing demagogue. There is a well-recognized and well-documented correlation between education and liberalism (also between education and atheism) that has been verified by many studies. Sociologists argue about *why* these things may be correlated, but they no longer argue about the empirically verifiable fact that they are.


Its true. You could see that correlation in action in parliament this week when the Liberal member proposed we take a scientific look at when life begins in light of our modern scientific knowledge of human development. The anti-science conservatives shrieked in horror in an effort to protect their primitive understanding of the matter to protect their agenda. 
Liberals showed themselves to be the champions of knowledge and truth through scientific enquiry once again.


----------



## Dr.G.

steviewhy said:


> Bunch of damn communists you lot.


Right on, brother. I was stuck between Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman. Not sure where brother Macfury will place, but it should either be on my right or left hand side. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

*An Echo From the Bush II Reign of Terror*



> john ashcroft and 'the spirit of justice'
> by tom paxton
> (from an idea furnished by anne hills)
> 
> most of you know the story by now. A statue of 'the spirit of justice' has stood for decades in the justice department and a long line of attorneys general have stood before it when addresing the press. John ashcroft, whose sensibilities are never offended by the news of another execution, was, however, upset at the sight of a marble breast peeking out from the statue's robe and caused a blue curtain to conceal it. It's still back there, though.
> 
> http://tompaxton.com/short_shelf_life_songs/john_ashcroft.mp3


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> Its true. You could see that correlation in action in parliament this week when the Liberal member proposed we take a scientific look at when life begins in light of our modern scientific knowledge of human development. The anti-science conservatives shrieked in horror in an effort to protect their primitive understanding of the matter to protect their agenda.
> Liberals showed themselves to be the champions of knowledge and truth through scientific enquiry once again.


Oh I can well imagine the religious right is keenly interested in the already studied scientific opinions of when human life really begins. :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

The Democrats are using "Pulp Fiction" profanity to get people to vote for Pres. Obama.  For shame .............. tptptptp

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Warning -- Bleeped profanity is contained in this video clip from CNN. Shame on them as well. tptptptp


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> In the year following Obama's inauguration, the U.S. economy lost about 4.3 million jobs. But new figures released Thursday show 4.4 million jobs have been added back since then."


Yes, the federal government continues to hire actively.


----------



## groovetube

the federal government added 4.4 million jobs?

CHART: Bush Vs. Obama On Private And Public Sector Job Creation | ThinkProgress



> Even with today’s disappointing and troubling jobs report, private sector job creation under President Obama has far exceeded private sector job creation under President Bush. 40 months into his presidential term, there are currently more private sector jobs in the economy than when Obama came into office. At the same point in President Bush’s term, the total number of private sector jobs was still down 1.7 percent from where it began.
> The numbers are even starker when measuring each president’s record from the moment job creation returned. Private sector job creation returned in February of 2010, the 13th month of President Obama’s term. Since then, the economy has added 4.3 million private sector jobs, a 4 percent increase.
> Under President Bush, the economy stopped shedding private sector jobs in July of 2003, fully 30 months into his administration. From that point until May of 2004, the economy added just 1.5 million private sector jobs, an increase of only 1.4 percent.
> *But there is one area of job creation where President Bush clearly outshines President Obama: the public sector. Public sector employment is now down 608,000 workers since January 2009, a 2.7 percent decline. At the same point in President Bush’s term, public sector employment was up 3.7 percent. If, over the past 40 months, public sector employment had grown at the same pace as it did in President Bush’s first term, there would be 1.4 million additional people at work right now. That’d be enough to bring the unemployment rate down by nearly a full percentage point.*


Sorry, but nice try.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- "Republicans may soon lose a key talking point. According to data released Thursday, President Obama may now be a net job creator.
> 
> In the year following Obama's inauguration, the U.S. economy lost about 4.3 million jobs. But new figures released Thursday show 4.4 million jobs have been added back since then."


Dr. G: I finally found the analysis I was looking for on the "job creation":
That many jobs were created, while about that many were lost, so the net job creation over 4 years is 300,000. 

CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs ... - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G: I finally found the analysis I was looking for on the "job creation":
> That many jobs were created, while about that many were lost, so the net job creation over 4 years is 300,000.
> 
> CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs ... - CNN.com


True ................... I am surprised that you are singing the praises of Pres. Obama. This takes away the one trump card that Romney had hope to play. So, as Romney says "are you better off than you were four years ago?", Pres. Obama is now able to say "will you be better off four years from now if we stay the course?" This is not good news for Romney.

I think that he needs to get a new Trump card ................ and in The Donald, who should start to hammer on the transcript issue. Like the birther issue, this will get the minds of the voters off the fact that things are slowly getting better for the American economy. We shall see.

Glad to see we are in agreement once again. I thought I had lost you to the "dark side" and you were taking the side of Pres. Obama, the unions and the rest of those lazy bums who take from the government and never give anything back.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## bryanc

MacGuiver said:


> ...proposed we take a scientific look at when life begins in light of our modern scientific knowledge of human development....
> Liberals showed themselves to be the champions of knowledge and truth through scientific enquiry once again.


This is a poor example, as there is no scientific problem in defining when "life" begins WRT human development. The sperm cell is alive... the oocyte is alive... the zygote is alive... the blastocyst is alive... the gastrula is alive... the neurula is alive... If it's ever not alive, it's dead and it's not going to come back to life. So it's a stupid question.

What are not a stupid questions are when does its life become an ethical consideration, and when (if ever) does it have rights that may trump those of the adult human woman upon which it is physiologically dependent? These are interesting and debatable questions, but they certainly are not questions that can be addressed by science.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ................... I am surprised that you are singing the praises of Pres. Obama.
> .


I am certainly not singing his praise--only agreeing that the economy produced a net gain of 330,00 jobs during his term of office. That's not enough to satisfy the needs of the new people entering the labour market.


----------



## eMacMan

I believe Mitt may have a winner this time.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan, you mention Ashcroft and justice in the same breath and it causes a bigger titter in the news!


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> True ................... I am surprised that you are singing the praises of Pres. Obama. This takes away the one trump card that Romney had hope to play. So, as Romney says "are you better off than you were four years ago?", Pres. Obama is now able to say "will you be better off four years from now if we stay the course?" This is not good news for Romney.


Dr. G, I'm not so sure it's over just yet. The electoral vote distribution in the U.S. is such that you only need to carry about 10 states and you're in. Florida is up for grabs and may go GOP....but California is the battle ground and I'm not certain where it lies in the scheme of things. If Romney can carry "the big C" then look out.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I'm not so sure it's over just yet.


Absolutely; the vast majority of US voters are pre-determined democrats or pre-determined Republicans... they always vote the same way, and they always cancel each other out. So the election is determined by a small number of independents and how well each party manages to mobilize it's base.

With respect to that latter issue, it's good to see Samuel L. Jackson doing his bit (NSFW... lots of F-bombs):



+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> eMacMan, you mention Ashcroft and justice in the same breath and it causes a bigger titter in the news!


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Tit's indeed an oxymoron. Ranks up there with "Honest politician" and "Military Intelligence".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I am certainly not singing his praise--only agreeing that the economy produced a net gain of 330,00 jobs during his term of office. That's not enough to satisfy the needs of the new people entering the labour market.


Well, up is up, and down is down, and when it comes to creating jobs, the numbers under Pres. Obama are up .................. so you must be supporting him. What next? Liking FDR and Truman .................... or Carter??? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I believe Mitt may have a winner this time.
> 
> View attachment 25141


Replacement refs ..................... the real refs are on their way this weekend.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I'm not so sure it's over just yet. The electoral vote distribution in the U.S. is such that you only need to carry about 10 states and you're in. Florida is up for grabs and may go GOP....but California is the battle ground and I'm not certain where it lies in the scheme of things. If Romney can carry "the big C" then look out.


Very true, Rp. Macfury and I, and maybe you, are the only ones supporting Romney. Too many uncertainties until now and election day. Of course, if Pres. Obama comes forth with his college transcripts, then Romney is doomed. Who was it that said, "It's the grades, stupid". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Absolutely; the vast majority of US voters are pre-determined democrats or pre-determined Republicans... they always vote the same way, and they always cancel each other out. So the election is determined by a small number of independents and how well each party manages to mobilize it's base.
> 
> With respect to that latter issue, it's good to see Samuel L. Jackson doing his bit (NSFW... lots of F-bombs):
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


True. However, I never thought I would see Fox News switch sides and say that Pres. Obama was in the lead in certain states. Well, this will make the Romney victory that much sweeter. His campaign is already planning the inaugural balls, the most lavish affair in the history of the United States. The main ball will be held in the White House, where only the biggest contributors are invited. The remaining balls will have their tabs picked up by the taxpayers of the US .................... the 53% that actually pay taxes, as a gesture of goodwill towards the newly elected president.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Absolutely; the vast majority of US voters are pre-determined democrats or pre-determined Republicans... they always vote the same way, and they always cancel each other out. So the election is determined by a small number of independents and how well each party manages to mobilize it's base.
> 
> With respect to that latter issue, it's good to see Samuel L. Jackson doing his bit (NSFW... lots of F-bombs):
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


omnia vincit spes

audax at fidelis

carpe noctem

semper ad meliora

veritas lux mea

si fractum non sit, noli id reficere


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, up is up, and down is down, and when it comes to creating jobs, the numbers under Pres. Obama are up .................. so you must be supporting him. What next? Liking FDR and Truman .................... or Carter??? Paix, mon ami.


This is the worst performance of any president, so I can't offer my support this election.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this will make the Romney victory that much sweeter. His campaign is already planning the inaugural balls, the most lavish affair in the history of the United States.


I suggest you don't discuss this; the Romney campaign is now all about "lowering expectations." Especially in the light of the upcoming debates, Romney's handlers are singing Obama's praises, calling him "one of the most talented political communicators in modern history"... of course, a little while ago Republican supporters were going on about how Obama was lost without a teleprompter, but now, anticipating an epic drubbing in the debates, they're trying to make sure everyone knows their guy's the underdog.

{edit to add: given that Romney got through the GOP primaries by being the guy who got the least drool on his podium during the debate, you'd think they'd have more confidence that he could land some punches on Obama, but they seem be hoping that people will be impressed if he manages not to trip over his tie.}


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I suggest you don't discuss this; the Romney campaign is now all about "lowering expectations." Especially in the light of the upcoming debates, Romney's handlers are singing Obama's praises, calling him "one of the most talented political communicators in modern history"... of course, a little while ago Republican supporters were going on about how Obama was lost without a teleprompter, but now, anticipating an epic drubbing in the debates, they're trying to make sure everyone knows their guy's the underdog.


Off Teleprompters, Obama is a stammering bag of goo. The strategy here is not to lower expectations for Romney, but to oversell Obama as "master debater" (don't say this fast). It will make Romney's debate victory all the more significant.

Really looking forward to the Ryan/Biden debate.


----------



## groovetube

Perhaps Obama should have not let the pubic sectors jobs decline (as you prefer actually...) and that would have buoyed the job numbers spledidly.

Hey it worked for the last republican president!

(like shootin fish in a barrel...)


----------



## i-rui

Ryan will beat Biden in the debate. Even though Ryan will shovel out more lies (as per usual), Biden is just a mess in these things. Even Sarah Palin did ok against Biden, when any other politician would have eaten her up

Obama will mop the floor with Romney. I really can't see it even being close. Romney is always just so awkward, and Obama always comes off as cool as a cucumber.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Obama will mop the floor with Romney. I really can't see it even being close. Romney is always just so awkward, and Obama always comes off as cool as a cucumber.


A cucumber perhaps, but not cool. YouTube is full of moments where Obama is forced into impromptu speech. Just one example:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is the worst performance of any president, so I can't offer my support this election.


Wow!!!! In the span of the 20th/21st centuries, historians and political scientists have selected good old Warren G. Harding as the worst president, if one is to believe the various surveys undertaken by these scholars. Still, who are we to trust academics and scholars. So, Pres. Obama now has one vote as being #44 on the list of presidents. While I put FDR and Lincoln as #1 and #2, who would you consider to be first and second of all the presidents? Just curious.

Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I suggest you don't discuss this; the Romney campaign is now all about "lowering expectations." Especially in the light of the upcoming debates, Romney's handlers are singing Obama's praises, calling him "one of the most talented political communicators in modern history"... of course, a little while ago Republican supporters were going on about how Obama was lost without a teleprompter, but now, anticipating an epic drubbing in the debates, they're trying to make sure everyone knows their guy's the underdog.
> 
> {edit to add: given that Romney got through the GOP primaries by being the guy who got the least drool on his podium during the debate, you'd think they'd have more confidence that he could land some punches on Obama, but they seem be hoping that people will be impressed if he manages not to trip over his tie.}


They are lowering the bar for the debates .............. not the inaugural balls. No president since FDR will be as wealthy as Romney, and since the US was in the midst of the Great Depression, there were no lavish balls when FDR became president. 

So, I can just see that up to election day, the US economy will be viewed by Romney as almost as bad as during the Great Depression .............. but once he becomes president, it will be "happy days are here again". Maybe he can get Barbara Streisand to sing this on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to rid us of the image of Pete Seeger singing this for Pres. Obama? We shall see.

Barbra Streisand -happy days are here again - YouTube

Pete Seeger - This Land is Your Land - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Off Teleprompters, Obama is a stammering bag of goo. The strategy here is not to lower expectations for Romney, but to oversell Obama as "master debater" (don't say this fast). It will make Romney's debate victory all the more significant.
> 
> Really looking forward to the Ryan/Biden debate.


True. Romney is going to sweep away Pres. Obama in the debates and shift all the independents over to his vision of America. The only problem he will face is if the moderator pushes him to be specific as to what he intends to do for America. We shall see.

Excelsior, mon ami. On to victory ....................


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Perhaps Obama should have not let the pubic sectors jobs decline (as you prefer actually...) and that would have buoyed the job numbers spledidly.
> 
> Hey it worked for the last republican president!
> 
> (like shootin fish in a barrel...)


How can you say this, gt????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A cucumber perhaps, but not cool. YouTube is full of moments where Obama is forced into impromptu speech. Just one example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


A great example, Macfury. Now, so long as Romney does not say something stupid like mentioning numbers (e.g., 47%) or calling corporations "people", he will win in a romp. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a literate tongue or pen, then you have something very special." Nelson Mandela


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> A great example, Macfury. Now, so long as Romney does not say something stupid like mentioning numbers (e.g., 47%) or calling corporations "people", he will win in a romp. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> :lmao:


He will be fine so long as he sticks to him game plan of saying nothing controversial and promising nothing specific other than "pie in the sky". If he can do this, he wins the election.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> He will be fine so long as he sticks to him game plan of saying nothing controversial and promising nothing specific other than "pie in the sky". If he can do this, he wins the election.


Yes, and President Obama will only need to explain why he did not already do any of the marvelous things he plans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, and President Obama will only need to explain why he did not already do any of the marvelous things he plans.


Yes, that will do him in, Macfury ................. unless he manages to convince the American voters that things are getting better and they would be better off in the next four years with him as president. We shall see.

So, who are your top two presidents?


----------



## Dr.G.

Watched the Bill O"Reilly show, the only real news on TV these days, and he contends that the mainstream media is rooting for Obama; that the polls consistently misrepresent a race that is still a dead heat; that Romney will re-emerge from this "autumnal swoon" by winning the October 3rd debate through his superior if often-invisible oratorical skills. According to Bill O'Reilly "the race is tied within the margin of error around 46% or 47%." I have also signed up for an online course at the Bill O'Reilly School of Interesting Statistics.


----------



## jimbotelecom

I'm looking forward to the debates too. I'm convinced that Mitt will put Barack in his place. 

I can't understand why so many pundits are down on Mitt for being un-telegenic to the point they compare him to Nixon's nervous and sweaty demeanour when he ran against JFK in 1960. Of course Mitt is nervous and sweaty because he's trying very hard. 

The voting people of the USA will do the right thing. They will support who ever gets elected.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> I'm looking forward to the debates too. I'm convinced that Mitt will put Barack in his place.
> 
> I can't understand why so many pundits are down on Mitt for being un-telegenic to the point they compare him to Nixon's nervous and sweaty demeanour when he ran against JFK in 1960. Of course Mitt is nervous and sweaty because he's trying very hard.
> 
> The voting people of the USA will do the right thing. They will support who ever gets elected.


Yes, someone should tell Mitt not to forget to shave, unlike Nixon back in 1960.


----------



## Dr.G.

Finally, the voices of reason are starting to ring out all over the land. This will be like a hammer and break down the walls of statistical oppression. Change is coming as soon as Romney and Ryan are elected.

"So there's a number of things going on with the polls, folks," Rush Limbaugh said Thursday on his radio program. "Let's review just quickly some things said yesterday. One of the reasons that you tout a big lead, at the same time early voting begins, is to suppress Romney early voters. Who wants to vote for a loser? Oh, gosh, here we go again. We really don't have a chance. They know that so many people on our side, all you gotta do is listen to the average conservative pundit and realize that they're mired in negativity and pessimism. So you build it up, put out a poll that shows a massive Obama lead and early voting goes on, and so you stoke Obama voters, you depress Romney voters." 

Republican strategist Karl Rove stoked the same conspiracy flames earlier this week on Fox News. 

"You've got to be careful about these polls," Rove said. "We endow them with a false scientific precision they simply don't have."

Peter, Paul and Mary - The Times They Are A Changing - YouTube
Peter, Paul and Mary - If I Had A Hammer (1963 performance) - YouTube


----------



## jimbotelecom

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, someone should tell Mitt not to forget to shave, unlike Nixon back in 1960.


Ah yes I forgot about the 5 o'clock shadow that tricky dicky had. There's still time for Mitt to grow a beard. Mind you hi-def can really focus on sweat beads and drool on a beard. Poor Mitt. I do hope the electorate isn't influenced by cosmetics. Policies and ideas are what counts. Clearly, Mitt is the man.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Watched the Bill O"Reilly show, the only real news on TV these days, and he contends that the mainstream media is rooting for Obama; that the polls consistently misrepresent a race that is still a dead heat; that Romney will re-emerge from this "autumnal swoon" by winning the October 3rd debate through his superior if often-invisible oratorical skills. According to Bill O'Reilly "the race is tied within the margin of error around 46% or 47%." I have also signed up for an online course at the Bill O'Reilly School of Interesting Statistics.


did anyone tell him about the fox news poll that showed quite the wide lead Obama has?

Right they're socialists too.


----------



## groovetube

Failing Romney points finger at campaign ?mad-genius? Stuart Stevens - The Globe and Mail

You know when this sort of thing begins to happen, the death spiral isn't far off.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> did anyone tell him about the fox news poll that showed quite the wide lead Obama has?
> 
> Right they're socialists too.


They are trying to get the Obama campaign overconfident.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Ah yes I forgot about the 5 o'clock shadow that tricky dicky had. There's still time for Mitt to grow a beard. Mind you hi-def can really focus on sweat beads and drool on a beard. Poor Mitt. I do hope the electorate isn't influenced by cosmetics. Policies and ideas are what counts. Clearly, Mitt is the man.


Mitt IS the man .............. and he is the one president who can really say "the buck stops here".


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Mitt IS the man .............. and he is the one president who can really say "the buck stops here".


It may stop there but that's only a pause on its way to the Caymen Islands.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> It may stop there but that's only a pause on its way to the Caymen Islands.


True, but he is a model for all Americans as to how to save money. :greedy:


----------



## jimbotelecom

eMacMan said:


> It may stop there but that's only a pause on its way to the Caymen Islands.


And Switzerland.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> And Switzerland.


No, I think that the Swiss are working with the US IRS to reveal secret accounts. Mitt the Man has his millions stashed away in the Cayman Islands where no tax will ever be paid. Hopefully, he does not turn into one of the 47% non-taxpaying bums. We shall see.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Hopefully Mitt will endorse Netanyahoo's redline on nukes in Iran and the US citizenry will prepare for another war after the November election. 
Mitt will show that he's the man.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Hopefully Mitt will endorse Netanyahoo's redline on nukes in Iran and the US citizenry will prepare for another war after the November election.
> Mitt will show that he's the man.


Well, a war ususally gets the people to rally around the president, so we shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Watched the Bill O"Reilly show, the only real news on TV these days, and he contends that the mainstream media is rooting for Obama; that the polls consistently misrepresent a race that is still a dead heat; that Romney will re-emerge from this "autumnal swoon" by winning the October 3rd debate through his superior if often-invisible oratorical skills. According to Bill O'Reilly "the race is tied within the margin of error around 46% or 47%." I have also signed up for an online course at the Bill O'Reilly School of Interesting Statistics.



It is interesting. Almost all of the polls that I've delved into oversample Democrats by a wide margin in order to replicate the turnout of the 2008 election. So for example, if I poll 1000 people and the majority favours Romney, the number is skewed to the turnout of 2008 and suddenly favours Obama.

The Fox poll is the only one that I've seen that--when unskewed to actual poll results, not predicted turnout--shows Obama up by 2. However, the poll has a 3% margin of error.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is interesting. Almost all of the polls that I've delved into oversample Democrats by a wide margin in order to replicate the turnout of the 2008 election. So for example, if I poll 1000 people and the majority favours Romney, the number is skewed to the turnout of 2008 and suddenly favours Obama.
> 
> The Fox poll is the only one that I've seen that--when unskewed to actual poll results, not predicted turnout--shows Obama up by 2. However, the poll has a 3% margin of error.


True. As I said, Fox News is the only real news reporting agency in the US, if not the entire world. Romney will make Pres. Obama eat that "margin of error". Then, with the creation of a Romney/Ryan dynasty, things will really change in America. Those 47%ers had better watch out as the saints and the 1%ers come marching in. The we will see who is left smiling. Paix, mon ami.

Louis Armstrong: When the saints go marching in - YouTube

Louis Armstrong - When You're Smiling - YouTube


----------



## BigDL

> It is interesting. Almost all of the polls that I've delved into oversample Democrats by a wide margin in order to replicate the turnout of the 2008 election. So for example, if I poll 1000 people and the majority favours Romney, the number is skewed to the turnout of 2008 and suddenly favours Obama.
> 
> The Fox poll is the only one that I've seen that--when unskewed to actual poll results, not predicted turnout--shows Obama up by 2. However, the poll has a 3% margin of error.





> True. As I said, Fox News is the only real news reporting agency in the US, if not the entire world. Romney will make Pres. Obama eat that "margin of error". Then, with the creation of a Romney/Ryan dynasty, things will really change in America. Those 47%ers had better watch out as the saints and the 1%ers come marching in. The we will see who is left smiling. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Louis Armstrong: When the saints go marching in - YouTube
> 
> Louis Armstrong - When You're Smiling - YouTube


I feel sorry for those that can't wait.

Like Xmas there will be a definite answer if some can only wait. Please stop shaking the packages if folks are patient they shall be rewarded with a resolve to this....Mystery? 

There will be a poll that will provide the absolute answer, by November 7th, hopefully no hanging Chads or hanging of anybody else.


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> I feel sorry for those that can't wait.
> 
> Like Xmas there will be a definite answer if some can only wait. Please stop shaking the packages if folks are patient they shall be rewarded with a resolve to this....Mystery?
> 
> There will be a poll that will provide the absolute answer, by November 7th, hopefully no hanging Chads or hanging of anybody else.


A valid point, BigDL. Once again, you are the voice of reason and patience. Paix, mon ami.

Now, let us pray ............... "Dear Lord, grant me patience ........... but do it now. Amen."


----------



## SINC

BigDL said:


> A interesting turn of events, turn around and a signature is obliterated.
> 
> Bullies in action?
> 
> I'll never know, however the thread cops are still alive and well.
> 
> Duly Noted!


I guess weird sigs are a target.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bill O'Reilly's latest view is that the "likability" factor gives Obama an advantage with "uninformed, casual voters." So, add to the non-taxpaying 47%ers the "uninformed". Romney can't lose this one so long as he does not say something stupid next week in the first of the presidential debates. He merely has to smile, look presidential, say nothing of significance and maybe say "There you go again" whenever Pres. Obama brings out some specific differences between the two candidates. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> True. As I said, Fox News is the only real news reporting agency in the US, if not the entire world. Romney will make Pres. Obama eat that "margin of error". Then, with the creation of a Romney/Ryan dynasty, things will really change in America. Those 47%ers had better watch out as the saints and the 1%ers come marching in. The we will see who is left smiling. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Louis Armstrong: When the saints go marching in - YouTube
> 
> Louis Armstrong - When You're Smiling - YouTube


And we all know those who are repeating this idea that all the polls are oversampling democrats, have likely visited all those polled to determine their political preferences and came to this conclusion.

Though, they may need to visit FOX news set those people straight, and fix their polls too.


----------



## i-rui

i love this .gif .... especially how waxy Mitt's face looks.


----------



## Macfury

A quarter is more than Daisy Duck deserves.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> i love this .gif .... especially how waxy Mitt's face looks.


He would throw dimes, like Rockefeller (he of Standard Oil) used to do from his limo. Still, he could blame inflation on Pres. Obama, so it is better if he threw a quarter.


----------



## Macfury

They were too lazy to give Romney anything but duck feet. Perhaps if they were given a larger government stipend they would have had the time to complete this animation properly.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They were too lazy to give Romney anything but duck feet. Perhaps if they were given a larger government stipend they would have had the time to complete this animation properly.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Rps

I'm wondering how many of you will be watching the debate? I assume all, so this will bring out some interesting discussion. Also, I am wondering what percentage of seats are in the roll-over? I'm wondering if this might have an impact as well ( as some seats may carry more weight than others ) in the public eye.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I'm wondering how many of you will be watching the debate? I assume all, so this will bring out some interesting discussion. Also, I am wondering what percentage of seats are in the roll-over? I'm wondering if this might have an impact as well ( as some seats may carry more weight than others ) in the public eye.


Yes, I am a political junkie. I watched the 1960 debates as a boy, and have been watching ever since. We shall see.

All House of Representative seats are up for grabs, and about 32 or 33 seats in the Senate are up for grabs.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, that would be more Democrats as the incumbents in the senate than GOPs I think. If that is the case, it should be interesting if the U.S. thinks that Obama may get in they may vote GOP in the Senate .... they seem to have this instinct for checks and balances which we do not.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I'm wondering how many of you will be watching the debate? I assume all, so this will bring out some interesting discussion. Also, I am wondering what percentage of seats are in the roll-over? I'm wondering if this might have an impact as well ( as some seats may carry more weight than others ) in the public eye.


I will be watching.

Here are some great suggestions for questions that will never be asked:

George Will: A better debate: Some questions for the candidates


----------



## Rps

My concern, if that is the word, is that the U.S. Debates seem to have weak moderators, which paint the result ....there isn't a Steve Paikin in the bunch.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> I'm wondering how many of you will be watching the debate?


Since YouTube is will be streaming them for the first time this year, I'll have the option. I may not watch them live, but I'll definitely make time to go through them at some point.

I think Obama has a significant challenge in the debates, in that everyone expects him to wipe the floor with Romney, so even if he wins handily, it's not going to impress anyone. Obama needs some real knock-out punches for this to help him, and Romney only needs to be evasive and spout sound-bites. So Romney's got the advantage here; but he needs to capitalize on it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, that would be more Democrats as the incumbents in the senate than GOPs I think. If that is the case, it should be interesting if the U.S. thinks that Obama may get in they may vote GOP in the Senate .... they seem to have this instinct for checks and balances which we do not.


We shall see. Sadly, there is no real sense of moderation and compromise in the US Congress these days, which causes gridlock.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I will be watching.
> 
> Here are some great suggestions for questions that will never be asked:
> 
> George Will: A better debate: Some questions for the candidates


An interesting article, Macfury. I think that the biggest impact the a Romney victory in Nov. could result in this election would be his selection of Supreme Court justices should any of the liberal judges resign or fall ill. He is VERY upset with Chief Justice Roberts, and would want to place a couple of very conservative justices on the bench to counteract this even playing field. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Since YouTube is will be streaming them for the first time this year, I'll have the option. I may not watch them live, but I'll definitely make time to go through them at some point.
> 
> I think Obama has a significant challenge in the debates, in that everyone expects him to wipe the floor with Romney, so even if he wins handily, it's not going to impress anyone. Obama needs some real knock-out punches for this to help him, and Romney only needs to be evasive and spout sound-bites. So Romney's got the advantage here; but he needs to capitalize on it.


Well, according to NJ Gov. Chris Christie, Romney is going to be the one mopping the floor with Pres. Obama. We shall see.

Crowley: Memo to Chris Christie -- did you get the memo? - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I think Obama has a significant challenge in the debates, in that everyone expects him to wipe the floor with Romney....


Really? Obama is a terrible extemporaneous speaker.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Really? Obama is a terrible extemporaneous speaker.


His campaign manager has promised that he will have no "zingers" in this debate, unlike what VP Biden is known for. They had to let their comedy speech writer, Julius Henry Marx go today, one because of his last name, and two because the jokes he came up with made Pres. Obama laugh so much that he kept forgetting the punch line to deliver the zinger to Romney. Guess it is going to be a dull debate. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

This should be interesting. Romney has had more practice of late in debates, but really needs to get his message across ( as does Obama ) if either are to build momentum coming out of the debate. What will be telling are the job numbers coming out on the Friday..... that will be the starting point for either.

Obama will have to be more presidential than he was when he debated Ms. Clinton, his come backs with her had the whiff of arrogance, which would be fatal against Romney ..... that may be interpreted by the voters as "sameness" between the two. If I were a betting man my money would be on Obama for getting his message across, but as a wise man once said: " we shall see".


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> This should be interesting. Romney has had more practice of late in debates, but really needs to get his message across ( as does Obama ) if either are to build momentum coming out of the debate. What will be telling are the job numbers coming out on the Friday..... that will be the starting point for either.





> If U.S. President Barack Obama was counting on a falling unemployment rate to boost his re-election chances, he needs to look elsewhere for help. Analysts forecast only the slimmest of job gains in the runup to November’s election and little or no improvement in the high U.S. unemployment rate until at least the middle of next year, as the remarkably jobless economic recovery continues.


Meagre job growth ahead - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> This should be interesting. Romney has had more practice of late in debates, but really needs to get his message across ( as does Obama ) if either are to build momentum coming out of the debate. What will be telling are the job numbers coming out on the Friday..... that will be the starting point for either.
> 
> Obama will have to be more presidential than he was when he debated Ms. Clinton, his come backs with her had the whiff of arrogance, which would be fatal against Romney ..... that may be interpreted by the voters as "sameness" between the two. If I were a betting man my money would be on Obama for getting his message across, but as a wise man once said: " we shall see".


Pres. Obama needs to not lecture like a university professor, and Romney needs to stop waving around his arms so much ................. and NOT to try and make a bet with Pres. Obama for $10,000.


----------



## Dr.G.

As F. Scott Fitzgerald’s famous statement expressed “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still be able to function”. Let's see which candidate is able to do this tonight.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> As F. Scott Fitzgerald’s famous statement expressed “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still be able to function”.


This reminds me of the Electric Monk in _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_ (by Douglas Adams). Although not all opposing ideas are mutually contradictory (e.g. the free market is good for society, because it selects for efficiency and maximizes productivity, but it is also bad for society because it does not protect individuals, the ecology, or anything else that cannot be monatized), it is often extraordinarily difficult for even very bright and well educated people to agree on where the balance between such oppositions is to be found.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> This reminds me of the Electric Monk in _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_ (by Douglas Adams). Although not all opposing ideas are mutually contradictory (e.g. the free market is good for society, because it selects for efficiency and maximizes productivity, but it is also bad for society because it does not protect individuals, the ecology, or anything else that cannot be monatized), it is often extraordinarily difficult for even very bright and well educated people to agree on where the balance between such oppositions is to be found.


Very good point, bryanc. It shall be an interesting debate tonight. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Ah a chance to see who can spend the grandest ball of yarn. 

Two mediocre liars going head to head. Each hoping the others lies will be so over the top as to make their own lies, when seen in direct comparison, seem at least slightly believable.

Will be writing in Cynthia McKinney so from my perspective a waste of time.


----------



## MacDoc

Bryanc seems the Scandavians have little trouble with that line drawing to the great benefit of the common weal - something in the water perhaps??


----------



## groovetube

everyone ready for the big (non) event?

I predict a draw, with both sides declaring their candidate the winner.

After seeing some cnn interviews I gotta say, Ann Romney is one crazy looking lady.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> everyone ready for the big (non) event?
> 
> I predict a draw, with both sides declaring their candidate the winner.
> 
> After seeing some cnn interviews I gotta say, Ann Romney is one crazy looking lady.


We shall see. It shall be interesting to see what sorts of "zingers" Romney has memorized. He campaign manage told CNN that he has some good ones to knock Pres. Obama off his stride and to rattle him.


----------



## SINC

Good grief, what a debacle. Obama is the biggest disappointment tonight. He's unsure of himself, stammering, searching for responses and worse. Give Romney a win of 10-1. 

That noted, I fear for the future of the USA under Romney.


----------



## groovetube

I think 10-1 is a serious stretch. Though Obama didn't take the opportunities he could have.

I'd say, it was a draw. Likely each respective side will consider 'their side' as the winner.


----------



## CubaMark

Mega-yawner.

Lots of people surprised that Obama didn't bring out the "47-percent" whammy... likely saving it for the next or final debate. Maybe trying to appear presidential and above all the controversies? In any event... booooorrrrrring. I'm also surprised that Obama didn't hit back at the Romney "$716-billion" cut to Medicare line, which non-partisan fact checkers have declared misleading at best. Perhaps explaining it would have taken more than the 2 minutes they were allotted? 

On the twitter stream, one person summed up Obama's performance best: "he looked like he just need a strong cup of coffee..."


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> I think 10-1 is a serious stretch. Though Obama didn't take the opportunities he could have.
> 
> I'd say, it was a draw. Likely each respective side will consider 'their side' as the winner.


I still have my vote firmly committed to the None of the Above camp.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Mega-yawner.
> 
> I'm also surprised that Obama didn't hit back at the Romney "$716-billion" cut to Medicare line, which non-partisan fact checkers have declared misleading at best. Perhaps explaining it would have taken more than the 2 minutes they were allotted?


Some week-long vacation!

The $716 billion is dead accurate. Merely stating that you are going to cut it because you've suddenly become more efficient and magically, your cuts won't affect service is disingenuous. I can unilaterally declare that I will save 10 per cent of my budget by paying 10 per cent less for everything I buy. However, vendors will refuse to sell to me.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Good grief, what a debacle. Obama is the biggest disappointment tonight. He's unsure of himself, stammering, searching for responses and worse. Give Romney a win of 10-1.
> 
> That noted, I fear for the future of the USA under Romney.


As I've said, Obama is not fast on his feet without a teleprompter. I don't believe it was as bad as you say, but I believe Romney had the most to gain from this event--and he squeezed every drop out of it. Thankfully, he was no McCain.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Some week-long vacation!
> 
> The $716 billion is dead accurate. Merely stating that you are going to cut it because you've suddenly become more efficient and magically, your cuts won't affect service is disingenuous. I can unilaterally declare that I will save 10 per cent of my budget by paying 10 per cent less for everything I buy. However, vendors will refuse to sell to me.


Only to you. It;s been widely shown as completely and utterly false. Why people believe such lies is a mystery.

But then, I guess people will believe, just about anything!


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> Mega-yawner.
> 
> Lots of people surprised that Obama didn't bring out the "47-percent" whammy... likely saving it for the next or final debate. Maybe trying to appear presidential and above all the controversies? In any event... booooorrrrrring. I'm also surprised that Obama didn't hit back at the Romney "$716-billion" cut to Medicare line, which non-partisan fact checkers have declared misleading at best. Perhaps explaining it would have taken more than the 2 minutes they were allotted?
> 
> On the twitter stream, one person summed up Obama's performance best: "he looked like he just need a strong cup of coffee..."


I was rather surprised that Obama didn't hit on those items. I agree with you on the fact tat Obama looked like he needed a good cup of coffee.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Some week-long vacation!


 *JMFC!* 

I get bitched at for saying I need time away from you people, and bitched at for not staying away. Some of you people seem to live in a perpetual state of a*******ness.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *JMFC!*
> 
> I get bitched at for saying I need time away from you people, and bitched at for not staying away. Some of you people seem to live in a perpetual state of a*******ness.


I don't think you're pleasing _anyone_ with tonight's performance.


----------



## groovetube

Neither are you so how about a wee curtsie and let's get on with the topic.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> The $716 billion is dead accurate. Merely stating that you are going to cut it because you've suddenly become more efficient and magically, your cuts won't affect service is disingenuous. I can unilaterally declare that I will save 10 per cent of my budget by paying 10 per cent less for everything I buy. However, vendors will refuse to sell to me.


so why doesn't the same train of thought follow when Ryan's budget plan makes a $770 billion cut to medicare? somehow that won't affect service? Both campaigns are proposing the same cut.

-----

Overall it was pretty even. Romney did better than most thought he would, so those lowered expectations have somehow been transformed into him "winning". Also pretty easy to do better in a debate when you deny what your campaign has been saying for the last 5 months and flip flop on key policy points.

Obama didn't bring his 'A' game, but has room to grow. Next debate I think we'll see a more aggressive demeanour to call out Romney's inconsistencies.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> so why doesn't the same train of thought follow when Ryan's budget plan makes a $770 billion cut to medicare? somehow that won't affect service? Both campaigns are proposing the same cut.


Ryan's budget proposal is not in Romney's campaign platform.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Ryan's budget proposal is not in Romney's campaign platform.


ahh yes, the ambiguous campaign platform without all those pesky things like "details" and "numbers".


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Good grief, what a debacle. Obama is the biggest disappointment tonight. He's unsure of himself, stammering, searching for responses and worse. Give Romney a win of 10-1.
> 
> That noted, I fear for the future of the USA under Romney.





groovetube said:


> I think 10-1 is a serious stretch. Though Obama didn't take the opportunities he could have.
> 
> I'd say, it was a draw. Likely each respective side will consider 'their side' as the winner.


Sadly, I agree with Sinc, but also with gt. I give it a Romney win at 4-1. Pres. Obama, as gt correctly contended in my opinion, did not take the opportunities he could of had, nor created these opportunities. He was too much the university professor and went on with too many facts and too much information. Of course, Romney was vague, which is exactly what he needed to be in the debate. We shall see how it plays out with the electorate. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Every child who grew up with Big Bird is going to bed tonight with their middle finger pointing towards the Cayman Islands.  tptptptp :-(


----------



## Rps

First, I think this was the warm up ... But Romney was probably 7 out of 10 tonight. He came across as human. Obama looked tired and if truth be known looks like he has Lyndon Syndrome. ( LBJ - tired of being Prez ). There were no big whacks, but body language said much ... You don't win a debate by nodding approval of your opponents points every 3 minutes like Obama did. And as for the moderator .... Get someone whose got some balls to keep these guys on track .... 

Second , it was a weak format ... Lock them in a room and let them go at it, then you would see their true colours. I'm think the VP debate will have more fire.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> First, I think this was the warm up ... But Romney was probably 7 out of 10 tonight. He came across as human. Obama looked tired and if truth be known looks like he has Lyndon Syndrome. ( LBJ - tired of being Prez ). There were no big whacks, but body language said much ... You don't win a debate by nodding approval of your opponents points every 3 minutes like Obama did. And as for the moderator .... Get someone whose got some balls to keep these guys on track ....
> 
> Second , it was a weak format ... Lock them in a room and let them go at it, then you would see their true colours. I'm think the VP debate will have more fire.


Valid points, Rps. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

(The Tucker Carson "Fox Video Exclusive" that inspired this comic - story at the Guardian)


----------



## bryanc

H'yup; gotta keep them black-folks from votin'.


----------



## bryanc

Who knew there were so many socialists in the upper echelons of the American Government?


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> H'yup; gotta keep them black-folks from votin'.


Actually, it shall be interesting to see how the Latino vote transforms into a power block that could sway the election one way or the other, or if they remain mainly disenfranchised. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney said that if elected president he would cut funding to PBS. He even mentioned Big Bird by name. (This is even more shocking because Mitt offered very few specifics on how he would cut the deficit other than slashing support for PBS.)

So what happens to Big Bird if Romney has his way? Will Big Bird be laid off? What jobs are out there for an 8-foot-2-inch yellow bird who sings slightly off-key? Will Big Bird become part of the 47% that Romney talked about who believe they are victims and are entitled to government funding?

And what about the other Muppets? What will come of them? How will they survive in these tough economic climate????


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> So what happens to Big Bird if Romney has his way?


----------



## Macfury

Income tax did not exist at the time of Adam Smith. Eisenhower _reduced _the tax rate to 91% from Roosevelt's 94%. Nixon _reduced_ it to 70% from Johnson's 77%. McCain is not a conservative and belongs on the **** list. Tom the Dancing bug is a lazy-ass researcher.


----------



## groovetube

watching Obama in Madison. He's on fire.

Too bad he wasn't last night.


----------



## Macfury

I think they should ask for photo ID to attend the President's rally this afternoon:

"Professors say Obama rally requires registration" by Latest News -- GazetteXtra



> MADISON — Three University of Wisconsin-Madison professors say students shouldn’t have to register with the Obama presidential campaign to attend Thursday’s rally.
> 
> *Students are required to supply their phone number and email address to the Obama campaign and click “I’m In” in order to get a free ticket to the president’s appearance at Bascom Hill.*
> 
> Political science professors Donald Downs and Ken Mayer and law professor Ann Althouse sent a letter expressing their concerns to university administrators Wednesday.


----------



## groovetube

September jobs report: Unemployment rate tumbles - Oct. 5, 2012

oh noes! Unemployment has dropped below 8%

and this just in, conservatives say the labour department is lying. Of course they are.


----------



## groovetube

Yes, you certainly were.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> September jobs report: Unemployment rate tumbles - Oct. 5, 2012
> 
> oh noes! Unemployment has dropped below 8%
> 
> and this just in, conservatives say the labour department is lying. Of course they are.


Like Canada the US stats deliberately omit a lot of people. In both country doubling the official number will still come out slightly on the low side of reality.


----------



## i-rui

At Last Night's Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes | ThinkProgress

----

also, these made me laugh :


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> At Last Night's Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes | ThinkProgress
> 
> ----
> 
> also, these made me laugh :


that's hilarious.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Like Canada the US stats deliberately omit a lot of people. In both country doubling the official number will still come out slightly on the low side of reality.


Yes--with the labour participation rate in the U.S. down to historic lows, the unemployment figure can drop without adding any news jobs.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> At Last Night's Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes | ThinkProgress
> 
> ----
> 
> also, these made me laugh :


Obama looks like Ricky Ricardo with that hair. 

However, it's not the amount but the principle involved. Why should the U.S. federal government support broadcasting?


----------



## groovetube

YEAH! Clamp down on big bird!!!

Now that's showing true leadership.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Obama looks like Ricky Ricardo with that hair.


true! he should have the latino vote locked up.



Macfury said:


> However, it's not the amount but the principle involved. Why should the U.S. federal government support broadcasting?


well, that's a matter of ideology, not a matter of honestly tackling the debt. If he's being honest about the debt crisis, Romney can't propose cutting funding to PBS as a solution while at the same time championing increasing the Defence budget. The former plays such an insignificant role in the budget as to be near meaningless, while the later is a significant slice of the pie.

Like all of Romney's policies it shows a complete absence of basic Math.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Why should the U.S. federal government support broadcasting?


Same reasons ours should; to facilitate the cultural arts, to spread information and support a well-educated, knowledgeable citizenry... y'know...just exactly the sort of people who vote for "progressives."


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> true! he should have the latino vote locked up.
> 
> 
> 
> well, that's a matter of ideology, not a matter of honestly tackling the debt. If he's being honest about the debt crisis, Romney can't propose cutting funding to PBS as a solution while at the same time championing increasing the Defence budget. The former plays such an insignificant role in the budget as to be near meaningless, while the later is a significant slice of the pie.
> 
> Like all of Romney's policies it shows a complete absence of basic Math.


I agree the amount to PBS is near meaningless. I believe Romney has not set an amount for defense spending--he wants it pegged at 4% of GDP. It has been much higher than that.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Same reasons ours should; to facilitate the cultural arts, to spread information and support a well-educated, knowledgeable citizenry... y'know...just exactly the sort of people who vote for "progressives."


A valid point, bryanc. This election is going down to the wire, so we shall see if the Big Bird vote brings in more votes for Pres. Obama than the "I was completely wrong" comment will help bring back many of those in the 47% category. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Same reasons ours should; to facilitate the cultural arts, to spread information and support a well-educated, knowledgeable citizenry... y'know...just exactly the sort of people who vote for "progressives."


Sure, bryanc. Because we know the "progressives" won't personally bankroll such broadcasting unless everyone else chips in to give them what they want.


----------



## groovetube

progressives = socialists?

Hey if the shoe fits, I guess.


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, bryanc. This election is going down to the wire, so we shall see if the Big Bird vote brings in more votes for Pres. Obama than the "I was completely wrong" comment will help bring back many of those in the 47% category. We shall see.


Perhaps Obama was using "rope-a-dope tactics", in the debate, to have expectations rise for Romney and lower for himself for subsequent debates.

Maybe the next debates shall be the Thrilla in Manilla, as we get closer to election day.


----------



## Macfury

BigDL said:


> Perhaps Obama was using "rope-a-dope tactics", in the debate, to have expectations rise for Romney and lower for himself for subsequent debates.
> 
> Maybe the next debates shall be the Thrilla in Manilla, as we get closer to election day.


I believe Obama would rather preserve that bit of fiction than present it on-screen for Romney to chop to ribbons. That's why it was not mentioned.


----------



## groovetube

Instead we were treated to Romney's flip flopping and fiction, that can now be wrapped around his neck. And is.

Romney's total flip flop to the center can't have made some groups very happy 

Amazing what one has to do in order to get more votes!


----------



## groovetube

Campaign Surrogate Admits Romney Is Changing Positions Just To Win Votes | ThinkProgress

Gee. Here I thought that swinging further to the right, would be the path to certain victory. What gives?


----------



## i-rui

saw this just now. great for scooby-doo fans!

lol

The Romney Boys Mysteries with Fred Willard from Fred Willard, Billy_Merritt, TheMaxwellBrothers, Alex Fernie, Charles Ingram, Funny Or Die, NickCorirossi, Scott Gairdner, William Maxwell, Ally Hord, and Brian Lane


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> the "progressives" won't personally bankroll such broadcasting unless everyone else chips in


Hey, we're stronger working together than separately  And I don't know many "progressives" that have much spare cash. Most of us are trying to make the world a better place, and that's rarely profitable.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Hey, we're stronger working together than separately  And I don't know many "progressives" that have much spare cash. Most of us are trying to make the world a better place, and that's rarely profitable.


I suspect it's more from the cost of being professional students and protesters plus an excess of latte consumption, while telling each other they're making the world a better place


----------



## Dr.G.

Romney is doing an "extreme makeover" and the sales of Etch-a-Sketch are going through the roof. He also basically told a very conservative audience that "I'm the only conservative you have in this election .................... so take it or leave it" (my interpretation, but FOX News concurs with this view). Still, FOX News also warned Romney that they would be watching once he bacame president, and that he had better swing to the far right or would face "stiff opposition" from the fiscal and social conservatives. He has put in place his transition team, so they are confident of a victory next month. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, Romney is America's only hope right now.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, Romney is America's only hope right now.


True ................ as the economy gets better, and the sun is shining bright, "there is no joy in Mudville ................ ", the mighty Obama has struck out. Still, it is up to the American voter. Hopefully, they shall choose the best man. We shall see.

Of course, I recall the bumber stickers in 1972 that were seen around Boston after the Nixon landslide -- "Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts".


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


>


The Muppet franchise is rolling in money--and they want additional funds from the government? Sounds like crony capitalism to me.


----------



## groovetube

Great diversionary tactic by Mitt. We don't need to talk about his flip flops of his tax policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Great diversionary tactic by Mitt. We don't need to talk about his flip flops of his tax policies.


They are not "flip flops", gt. Have you never played withan Etch-a-Sketch???


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## bryanc

*I like this internet meme...*

...so I'm helping it spread.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


>


That one is actually funny! Better than watching Obama taking credit for murdering Bin Laden!


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


That will teach Big Bird not to poop on the Romney bus. XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> ...so I'm helping it spread.


You don't get it, bryanc. One, his pants are not on fire ............ two, if he changes his mind, it's not a lie. He has it in the bag now, since the fiscal and social conservatives really have no one else to vote for other than the Libertarian Party. So, it shall be Romney by a landslide .................... and then wait until the dust settles to see where he actually stands on the issues.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> ... and then wait until the dust settles to see where he actually stands on the issues.


To the right of Obama. At this point, that's enough. Any life preserver for a country drowning in Obamadebt.


----------



## groovetube

exactly. They can spend way more, cut revenues, spend more billions in another war, create a financial crisis that will not only rival the great depression but next time make it worse, then let a democrat take the blame.

It's the Liberari... er american way.


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

RIP Big Bird .............. Up next, will be the protests against Bert and Ernie from the religious right .................. then, it's goodbye Reading Rainbow.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
> 
> RIP Big Bird .............. Up next, will be the protests against Bert and Ernie from the religious right .................. then, it's goodbye Reading Rainbow.


It seems to really rile republicans that under Obama's watch the US killed Osama Bin Laden, not Bush.

So I guess, Big Bird is about as exciting a target.

I suspect though, that like Canada, dropping PBS would make them more enemies than friends. The extreme right base always think s they're bigger than they are.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> To the right of Obama. At this point, that's enough. Any life preserver for a country drowning in Obamadebt.


"Obamadebt" ............. that's a new word, Macfury. Kudos. :clap::clap:

We shall see how the Ministry of Truth, the agency that Romney shall create to replace the Dept. of Education, and which will be responsible for historical revisionism, will deal with this "fact". Of course, the original documents from the US Treasury and Dept. of Labor, which will be absorbed into the Ministry of Truth (along with the Environmental Protection Agency, the FBI, the CIA and the National Endowment for the Arts) will be incinerated in a "memory hole." Still, despite the intellectual challenges of historical revisionism, some of us might become interested in the roots of this debt as we view the facts of the true past. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of Mitt Romney;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of debt are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! to Mitt Romney. Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! to Mitt Romney. His truth is marching on.

Actually, I like this version much better.

Battle Hymn of the Republic - Mormon Tabernacle Choir - YouTube

Still, Romney will want to outdo Reagan

Battle Hymn of the Republic - Ronald Reagan - Mormon Tabernacle Choir - America's Choir - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Rick Santorum wants to both kill Big Bird, but also eat him. XX)

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Rick Santorum wants to both kill Big Bird, but also eat him.


This is due to a fundamentally different ideal for American Culture. The Republicans want an America where government looks after corporations and the military, and the Christian churches look after the people. In this vision, government has no business making good TV for kids, feeding kids in school, providing health care, or any kind of family services; those are all things the church can do (and if your not a Christian, you don't belong in their America anyway). The Democrats are trying to play both sides; they still want to pander to corporations, but they also want to at least appear to care about the citizens as well. I hardly see the Dems as an ideal alternative, but they're clearly better than the Republicans.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> This is due to a fundamentally different ideal for American Culture. The Republicans want an America where government looks after corporations and the military, and the Christian churches look after the people. In this vision, government has no business making good TV for kids, feeding kids in school, providing health care, or any kind of family services; those are all things the church can do (and if your not a Christian, you don't belong in their America anyway). The Democrats are trying to play both sides; they still want to pander to corporations, but they also want to at least appear to care about the citizens as well. I hardly see the Dems as an ideal alternative, but they're clearly better than the Republicans.


How would you grade this post if it were submitted by a student as a test answer?


----------



## groovetube

when in doubt...

ha ha ha ha ha! :lmao:

almost time for turkey and beer.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How would you grade this post if it were submitted by a student as a test answer?


Depends upon what the question was that elicited the reply.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> How would you grade this post if it were submitted by a student as a test answer?


Accurate although the Democrats pretense at caring about taxpaying citizens is so thin as to be almost invisible. 

All hail Corporate America. Ve haf vays off no-ink ven du vaking it.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> How would you grade this post if it were submitted by a student as a test answer?


I can think of no circumstances in which this would be a reasonable answer to a question I would ever ask of my students. However, my cousin, who is a professor of political science, assures me that this would make an interesting and provocative thesis statement for an essay in one of his courses; depending on how it was supported, it could score very well.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I can think of no circumstances in which this would be a reasonable answer to a question I would ever ask of my students. However, my cousin, who is a professor of political science, assures me that this would make an interesting and provocative thesis statement for an essay in one of his courses; depending on how it was supported, it could score very well.


Yes, I could devise a question where this would be a reasonable answer. For activities on critical written expression, I have my students take and answer like this and then devise a possible question that might elicit this response, as well as giving them questions that require critical thought and then have them create a variety of possible answers.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## i-rui

I just finished watching the debate between Bill O'Reilly & Jon Stewart. Good fun and quite entertaining. O'Reilly even came off as slightly moderate on some points! (although clearly in a bubble on others!). Stewart was on his game for the most part, but he did stumble on the difference between deficit and debt (although his point was still correct).

Here's a link for it on youtube, although i'm not sure how long it will be active since they seem to shut these down after a few hours (if it's down just search "Bill O'Reilly VS. Jon Stewart" on youtube)





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Mitt toots!
View attachment 25239


----------



## bryanc

A much more interesting (and actually thought provoking in places) debate than the "real" one. 

I'd love to see Jon Stewart for President.

Interestingly, Bill O'Reilly was quite reasonable and rational most of the time; he's basically a Leftist like the rest of the reasonable rational people on earth. Bill just has a few irrational issues he needs to work through (maybe his mother didn't pay enough attention to him as a child), but they largely agreed on several issues.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I can think of no circumstances in which this would be a reasonable answer to a question I would ever ask of my students. However, my cousin, who is a professor of political science, assures me that this would make an interesting and provocative thesis statement for an essay in one of his courses; depending on how it was supported, it could score very well.


Exactly. It is not supported.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Interestingly, Bill O'Reilly was quite reasonable and rational most of the time; he's basically a Leftist like the rest of the reasonable rational people on earth.


Left of what? And why would anybody "pit" these two against each other in a debate? They're both squishy statists.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> It is not supported.


According to you. But you have established zero credibility and demonstrated no authority on this topic yourself, so you're just some guy on the internet with an opinion.

In contrast, the people I converse with on these topics have advanced degrees in directly related disciplines, and/or relevant or real-world experience. So while you're obviously entitled to your opinion, it isn't worth the electrons that were inconvenienced transmitting it.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> According to you. But you have established zero credibility and demonstrated no authority on this topic yourself, so you're just some guy on the internet with an opinion.
> 
> In contrast, the people I converse with on these topics have advanced degrees in directly related disciplines, and/or relevant or real-world experience. So while you're obviously entitled to your opinion, it isn't worth the electrons that were inconvenienced transmitting it.


Neither was your unsupported "thesis." I believe we're in agreement here.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> A much more interesting (and actually thought provoking in places) debate than the "real" one.
> 
> I'd love to see Jon Stewart for President.
> 
> Interestingly, Bill O'Reilly was quite reasonable and rational most of the time; he's basically a Leftist like the rest of the reasonable rational people on earth. Bill just has a few irrational issues he needs to work through (maybe his mother didn't pay enough attention to him as a child), but they largely agreed on several issues.


I liked the part when O'Reilly said "You gotta unleash the machine (i.e., Wall Street)" to which Stewart replied "Because what could go wrong?" :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

LeVar Burton: What Romney doesn't get about PBS - CNN.com

An excellent defense of the PBS spending. As a parent and an educator, it is money well spent.


----------



## Dr.G.

Of course, as Big Bird said on SNL, "I don't want to ruffle any feathers."
Big Bird stays up to pay a visit to 'SNL' – The Marquee Blog - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> LeVar Burton: What Romney doesn't get about PBS - CNN.com
> 
> An excellent defense of the PBS spending. As a parent and an educator, it is money well spent.


Not to ruffle any feather here, of course, but maybe one should question the money spent on public broadcasting ..... our own government looks at this as well .... not that I'm comparing CBC to PBS, but, really, they do have some great shows on PBS ( although most seem to be from the BBC ) but that said, I can't think of a single CBC show that I would buy the box set of ........ now their radio is a different matter. 

My comments are intended not to derail this thread, but it is an observation that both our governments are looking at budget segments and wondering why we should spend as much as we do ..... It is also a case of "minorism" ... you take a microscopic issue which has some emotional attachment and create a much larger issue from it. 

Romney is only guilty of attaching himself to a sound bite ...... personally I would be more concerned with his talk of increasing their defense spending .... I mean really, what's left for them to buy????????? And you only get value when you use it ..... and that is what scares me the most.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Not to ruffle any feather here, of course, but maybe one should question the money spent on public broadcasting ..... our own government looks at this as well .... not that I'm comparing CBC to PBS, but, really, they do have some great shows on PBS ( although most seem to be from the BBC ) but that said, I can't think of a single CBC show that I would buy the box set of ........ now their radio is a different matter.
> 
> My comments are intended not to derail this thread, but it is an observation that both our governments are looking at budget segments and wondering why we should spend as much as we do ..... It is also a case of "minorism" ... you take a microscopic issue which has some emotional attachment and create a much larger issue from it.
> 
> Romney is only guilty of attaching himself to a sound bite ...... personally I would be more concerned with his talk of increasing their defense spending .... I mean really, what's left for them to buy????????? And you only get value when you use it ..... and that is what scares me the most.


Be careful the "feathers that you ruffle", Rp.  Paix, mon ami.

Big Bird - Obama for America TV Ad - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- "Surprise. David Siegel, the resort CEO who is building the biggest private home in the country, really, really doesn't like President Obama. 

And while Siegel hasn't sent any money to Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, he has gone a step farther to support him. 

On Monday he sent an e-mail to all 7,000 employees of privately-held Westgate Resorts, many of them in the battleground state of Florida, warning them their jobs are at risk if the president is re-elected."


CEO emails 7,000 employees: Defeat Obama or else - Oct. 9, 2012

Sort of like the old "If you don't come to work on Sunday, don't bother to come in on Monday" notice back in the early 1900s.


----------



## Macfury

The Children's Television Workshop has asked Obama to remove Big Bird from its campaign.


----------



## groovetube

well since the government pays for it, I doubt that even has any teeth in it.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> well since the government pays for it, I doubt that even has any teeth in it.


Not quite. Sesame Street is one of PBSs very few financial successes. It makes enough of a profit to put the program consistently in the black. 

Thanks to those new copyright laws PBS could sue the Democrats for enough to sustain all of its programs for many years to come. A course of action I would dearly love to see taken.


----------



## groovetube

I stand corrected then (if true). Though the government pays in a huge amount of money, how do we know there isn't some legalese that gets around this based on government investment?

Though likely it'll go the way of a cease and desist like all the other uses of works by political parties.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Not quite. Sesame Street is one of PBSs very few financial successes. It makes enough of a profit to put the program consistently in the black.
> 
> Thanks to those new copyright laws PBS could sue the Democrats for enough to sustain all of its programs for many years to come. A course of action I would dearly love to see taken.


Sesame Street _did _receive more than a million dollars in stimulus funds and created 1.47 jobs:

Sesame Street received $1 mil stimulus bill grant ? created ?1.47? jobs | WashingtonExaminer.com


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Sesame Street _did _receive more than a million dollars in stimulus funds and created 1.47 jobs:
> 
> Sesame Street received $1 mil stimulus bill grant ? created ?1.47? jobs | WashingtonExaminer.com


To put this in perspective pretty much every American Taxpayer who had earned income received at least $1000 in stimulus grants. I doubt that the total number of jobs created by the Billions spent in that manner created more than a half dozen jobs.

PBS still holds the copyright. The Democrats themselves do not have any financial claim to PBS, so clearly a lawsuit is in order here, aided and abetted by the New Copyright Laws which were written by and for the Entertainment industry.


----------



## groovetube

anyone see the confused man in his new commercial comparing the US to communist Hungary?

You'd have to have eaten too much Aluminum in your diet to actually think the US is anywhere near, communism. Or, desperate.

One interesting thing to note. I've seen it written that Romney's real path to victory is to be far more to the right. It appears that failed miserably, and I find it somewhat funny (and sad actually) that we're now seeing moderate Mitt seeing a better showing in the polls!

Who'd a thought eh.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> anyone see the confused man in his new commercial comparing the US to communist Hungary?
> 
> You'd have to have eaten too much Aluminum in your diet to actually think the US is anywhere near, communism. Or, desperate.
> 
> One interesting thing to note. I've seen it written that Romney's real path to victory is to be far more to the right. It appears that failed miserably, and I find it somewhat funny (and sad actually) that we're now seeing moderate Mitt seeing a better showing in the polls!
> 
> Who'd a thought eh.


It may be moderate Mitt to get elected, but he will have to swing to the right, since the Tea Party and the religious right shall call the shots in his administration. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

The navy seal Romney was busy using in his speeches... The mother of this man hit back and told him to stop politicizing his death.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> The navy seal Romney was busy using in his speeches... The mother of this man hit back and told him to stop politicizing his death.


Yes, I heard this as well on CNN. She said that she does not trust Romney.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It may be moderate Mitt to get elected, but he will have to swing to the right, since the Tea Party and the religious right shall call the shots in his administration.


Yes!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes!


Well, he is the "Etch-a-Sketch" candidate. Sadly, his moderate views might get him elected, and then people will wonder what happened when he suddenly has to change direction once again ........... as in his pledge to make sure the wealthy Americans pay their fair share of the tax burden. Right!!!!!!!


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he is the "Etch-a-Sketch" candidate. Sadly, his moderate views might get him elected, and then people will wonder what happened when he suddenly has to change direction once again ........... as in his pledge to make sure the wealthy Americans pay their fair share of the tax burden. Right!!!!!!!


You obviously don't know how to sling the lingo my friend.

Mitt thinks a fair share, for anyone making more than $1 Million per year, is zero, goose egg, nada....


----------



## groovetube

well, so much for getting the support of Americans for a further right agenda.

I guess this may be why we don't see any libertarians governments. People are smart enough to see the stupidity of that ideology. So they'll never vote for it knowingly.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> You obviously don't know how to sling the lingo my friend.
> 
> Mitt thinks a fair share, for anyone making more than $1 Million per year, is zero, goose egg, nada....


Well, he did say that the wealthy would pay the same as they did last year, and there were 4000 Americans who are millionaires and billionaires who paid no income tax last year, so maybe he was talking about them???


----------



## Macfury

I think supporters of Obama have a lot to talk about right now--so I'll just leave y'all to it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang ?lies from the pit of hell? – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

I did NOT vote for him in the last election. Sadly, he is running unopposed in the upcoming election. I am still allowed to vote in the Georgia 10th.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think supporters of Obama have a lot to talk about right now--so I'll just leave y'all to it.


No, Macfury, come join the fun. Libertarians are welcome.

Rand Paul: Romney's wrong on Middle East, defense spending - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, Macfury, come join the fun. Libertarians are welcome.
> 
> Rand Paul: Romney's wrong on Middle East, defense spending - CNN.com


Thankfully, Republicans can still have healthy, internal debates. And so can Biden and Ryan--which is why I am going to vamoose right now.

_Edit: Ouch--it's tomorrow night!_


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Thankfully, Republicans can still have healthy, internal debates. And so can Biden and Ryan--which is why I am going to vamoose right now.
> 
> _Edit: Ouch--it's tomorrow night!_


Yes, a bit early. Hopefully, it shall be a good debate. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## MacDoc

hehe - go to google images

Google Images

and type in * "completely wrong"*

Google search for 'completely wrong' yields page of Romney photos - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> hehe - go to google images
> 
> Google Images
> 
> and type in * "completely wrong"*
> 
> Google search for 'completely wrong' yields page of Romney photos - CNN.com


Cool! This is the result of the media meltdown over Obama's poor polling in recent days!


----------



## groovetube

Yeah they made him utter the words for google to index on those images.

Dem wascally wiberals!


----------



## Rps

In prior posts there have been some comments on the concept of democracy and whether we have one, also, where the people should be more involved on a personal voting basis for certain segments of legislation. As I live across from Detroit, we are bombarded with ads for the 6 propositions on their ballot, I thought the following would inform you of some of the issues. I have included a fairly good site which outlines not only Michigan's but all states.

2012 ballot measures - Ballotpedia

enjoy, outside of the billions spent on advertising ( in many cases miscommunication ) this is certainly as close to the conventional view of democracy as I have seen.


----------



## Macfury

I like ballot measures! The money spent by proponents of wither side is not really relevant. It stimulates the economy just as well as any other spent money.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I like ballot measures! The money spent by proponents of wither side is not really relevant. It stimulates the economy just as well as any other spent money.


That maybe but in many cases the special interest side can out spend a government side at the state level. Case in point is measure 5 and 6 in Michigan, both sponsored by lobby groups funded by the Ambassador Bridge Company. Unless you have seen the advertising, which in many instances is a complete fabrication, you should not make such blanket statements on the relevancy of either side ..... people vote on these things and if the media saturates the market one way of the other it is a purchased credibility..... bottom line is the residents of the state have to live with the results. I think the Supreme Court was in error in saying donations are a form of freedom of speech ( super PACs and all ), what should happen is a truth in advertising law needs to be put in place .... maybe then I would agree with you, but until you have seen it, you have no idea.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> That maybe but in many cases the special interest side can out spend a government side at the state level. Case in point is measure 5 and 6 in Michigan, both sponsored by lobby groups funded by the Ambassador Bridge Company. Unless you have seen the advertising, which in many instances is a complete fabrication, you should not make such blanket statements on the relevancy of either side ..... people vote on these things and if the media saturates the market one way of the other it is a purchased credibility..... bottom line is the residents of the state have to live with the results. I think the Supreme Court was in error in saying donations are a form of freedom of speech ( super PACs and all ), what should happen is a truth in advertising law needs to be put in place .... maybe then I would agree with you, but until you have seen it, you have no idea.


Sure I have an idea. I have lived near Detroit and currently monitor this stuff from Buffalo. I would rather have people vote on these propositions, even with misrepresentations from the proponents, than I would trust governments to decide them. I think that the Supreme Court made the correct decision and that people both individually, and collectively, have the right to free speech. 

Truth in advertising? Let's make a law for politicians first and see how that flies.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I think that the Supreme Court made the correct decision and that people both individually, and collectively, have the right to free speech.


Let's just agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## i-rui

money does not equal free speech. it's a ridiculous equivalency. 

i can't walk into futureshop and buy a TV by talking up a storm.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> money does not equal free speech. it's a ridiculous equivalency.
> 
> i can't walk into futureshop and buy a TV by talking up a storm.


i-rui, that's a really weak analogy. More to the point, you could use your money to _either _buy a television at Future Shop _or_ amplify your message in a country that protects free speech by advertising it.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> i-rui, that's a really weak analogy.


disagree. the directness of the analogy is the key point to demonstrating the absurdness of the idea that money = free speech.



Macfury said:


> More to the point, you could use your money to _either _buy a television at Future Shop _or_ amplify your message in a country that protects free speech by advertising it.


or i could use that money to bribe someone. or i could do a multitude of other things because money is *currency*.

next you'll try to tell us corporations are people.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> disagree. the directness of the analogy is the key point to demonstrating the absurdness of the idea that money = free speech.
> 
> 
> 
> or i could use that money to bribe someone. or i could do a multitude of other things because money is currency.
> 
> next you'll try to tell us corporations are people.


Exactly. Part of the problem with the opposing view is that dismantling government, one that is chosen and elected by the people, hands more and more power and decision making into the hands of privately held interests, ones that cannot be chosen or elected. Somehow, those who believe in this model think that magically, the market will regulate them into doing what the people want.

Not only is this completely delusional, it's been shown to have disastrous results, over and over again. Just as it's been shown that hading -too much- power to governments isn't a good thing either.

Equating money with free speech is the same problem. "free speech" is no longer free, it now costs a massive amount of money in order to get your agenda/opinion across. Since money is concentrated in those large privately held interests and corporations (which cares less what is actually good for people), speech is no longer so free for the majority of the citizens. And, has very little accountability really.

Witness the deluging of the superPACS stateside just shovelling crap, on both sides. How on earth does the average citizen wade through all this dreck for some semblance of truth (sanity)?


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> disagree. the directness of the analogy is the key point to demonstrating the absurdness of the idea that money = free speech.


If I say that I can buy food with money, I am not simultaneously attempting to prove that I can eat money. Neither does it mean that I believe I can deposit an ear of corn in the ATM.

Money is not free speech and nobody says it is. The message is free speech and the U.S. Supreme Court says that people have the right to use their money to promote those messages.


----------



## i-rui

i agree that money can *facilitate* free speech, but much like everything else there has to be checks and balances on how that occurs. (the money, not the free speech).


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> i agree that money can *facilitate* free speech, but much like everything else there has to be checks and balances on how that occurs. (the money, not the free speech).


Why should there be a monetary limit on free speech? If I want to tell someone to vote for a particular proposition, why should I not be allowed to repeat that message a million times? I suspect that such an effort is self-limiting--people would simply stop listening after awhile.


----------



## i-rui

First off, the process should be transparent, so that people/corporations should not be able to hide behind anonymity while they manipulate the political process to meet their agenda.

Secondly, there should most definitely be a limit on money. While I agree that money can facilitate free speech, it also has the power to eliminate opposing voices simply by buying up all the air time/ad space.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> First off, the process should be transparent, so that people/corporations should not be able to hide behind anonymity while the manipulate the political process to meet their agenda.


I'm not opposed to that.



i-rui said:


> Secondly, there should most definitely be a limit on money. While I agree that money can facilitate free speech, it also has the power to eliminate opposing voices simply by buying up all the air time/ad space.


One could better achieve this by giving opposing "advertisers" the right of buy up X amount of advertising, if nobody else wants it.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Why should there be a monetary limit on free speech? If I want to tell someone to vote for a particular proposition, why should I not be allowed to repeat that message a million times? I suspect that such an effort is self-limiting--people would simply stop listening after awhile.


The reason they put monetary limits with respect to campaigns was the view that you were actually buying the vote .... SuperPac's do this, and please don't play contrarian with me MacFury, you know this as well as I, and you also know what the intent of the SuperPac is ... to buy votes and to drown out any form of reasonable critical thinking by the masses.

Allowing a vested interest to bury the market with propaganda is not freedom of speech, but freedom to influence purpose.


----------



## SINC

"Critical thinking by the masses" died many moons ago Rps. It's been replaced by we don't care and we don't vote. Sigh.


----------



## groovetube

man. Biden is having Ryan for lunch.


----------



## CubaMark

Hilarious watching the Twitter feed for the Romney/Ryan supporters... it's all "Biden's an angry old man!" This is so far above the Presidential debate in quality and substance. The headlines tomorrow will be interesting to scan...


----------



## groovetube

Bill Maher: Oh just shup up all of ya, i want to watch football. All that's left is for Biden to throw Ryan a handkerchief:"Here, clean yourself up kid"

ha ha ha.

Much better debate.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Allowing a vested interest to bury the market with propaganda is not freedom of speech, but freedom to influence purpose.


Free speech includes the freedom to influence purpose.


----------



## groovetube

true free speech happens on a relatively level playing field.


----------



## steviewhy

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> man. Biden is having Ryan for lunch.


Not at the outset. Biden kept smiling at the wrong moments. Towards the end it was Biden on content, Ryan on debating style, and a draw at the end.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not at the outset. Biden kept smiling at the wrong moments. Towards the end it was Biden on content, Ryan on debating style, and a draw at the end.


Agreed. 

I also thought both their summations were poor.


----------



## jimbotelecom

I thought that the debate was a draw. I'm relieved that the GOP ticket is actually competent for the first time in decades.

This is going to be one very tight outcome and I think the Republicans have momentum right now. Needless to say the pressure is on Obama to perform in the next debate.

I was following a bunch of Canadian journalists on twitter and they said something interesting about the moderators - suggesting that Steve Paikin be loaned to the US as a moderator. I agree with that.


----------



## groovetube

the summations were both poor.

I thought Biden had the edge during the debate, while I agree G he did smile rather oddly at times, it didn't really seem out of character for him though. Ryan held to a restrained debate style, which, I'm not so sure was such a huge plus for him. I thought he should have matched the fire a bit. I think it would have helped him, not hinder. Biden kinda outclassed him in a number of areas, and showcased Ryan's total newbie naivety.


----------



## groovetube

jimbotelecom said:


> I thought that the debate was a draw. I'm relieved that the GOP ticket is actually competent for the first time in decades.
> 
> This is going to be one very tight outcome and I think the Republicans have momentum right now. Needless to say the pressure is on Obama to perform in the next debate.
> 
> I was following a bunch of Canadian journalists on twitter and they said something interesting about the moderators - suggesting that Steve Paikin be loaned to the US as a moderator. I agree with that.


It will take a few more polls to determine whether it's momentum, or a bounce.

I think last night's debate will matter more than previous vp debates, and yeah, all eyes will be on Obama in the next one.


----------



## i-rui

i thought Biden absolutely rolled Ryan.

maybe it was just my low expectations of Biden going in, but he clearly won IMO. Called out Ryan on all of his BS.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I also thought both their summations were poor.


Yes, I agree. Usually, these are the strong points of the debate. Well, now it's on to the next presidential debate.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> i thought Biden absolutely rolled Ryan.
> 
> maybe it was just my low expectations of Biden going in, but he clearly won IMO. Called out Ryan on all of his BS.


That was my call too. Biden rolled right over all of Ryan's crap, and called him out hard on his lack of specifics. That one I thought was a cannon ball. Not to mention Biden expressing his faith and personal belief that abortion isn't his choice, but that he would not enforce his personal religious beliefs on others. That was a powerful point! But it seems even some dems think it's a draw, so meh.


----------



## i-rui

yep. Ryan really f'd up the abortion question.

Romney's campaign reset had him sidestepping back to be being a moderate, and then Ryan comes along and hints he wants to reopen the right to choose for women.


----------



## Rps

jimbotelecom said:


> I was following a bunch of Canadian journalists on twitter and they said something interesting about the moderators - suggesting that Steve Paikin be loaned to the US as a moderator. I agree with that.


FINALLY !!!!!! Yes I've said many times that Paikin would be outstanding as a moderator, the U.S. ones are too submissive. The next debate will be interesting. I think this is the signal that the gloves are off ..... Obama would do well to study some of Harper's debates, not trying to derail here, but I think Harper is a master of not getting off message and only answering the question he wants to answer. Romney is beginning to get this, but he has had more practice of late ... will be interesting.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> yep. Ryan really f'd up the abortion question.
> 
> Romney's campaign reset had him sidestepping back to be being a moderate, and then Ryan comes along and hints he wants to reopen the right to choose for women.


What was the statement that suggested this to you?


----------



## Sonal

I didn't see the debate, but it was interesting looking at comments on FB who were watching. Democrats thought Biden destroyed Ryan, Republicans found Biden ridiculous and disrespectful.

When there's a clear winner, both sides are usually somewhat in agreement, at least over who presented well and who did not. (i.e., everyone agrees that Obama was off his game in the last debate.) Here, it seems to be a draw.


----------



## Rps

i-rui said:


> yep. Ryan really f'd up the abortion question.
> 
> Romney's campaign reset had him sidestepping back to be being a moderate, and then Ryan comes along and hints he wants to reopen the right to choose for women.


i-rui, I disagree, I think the question was "what is your personal opinion and how does your religion inform that view" .... and he gave it. Whether I agree with his view is secondary, he probably gave the only "true" statement of the night.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> I didn't see the debate, but it was interesting looking at comments on FB who were watching. Democrats thought Biden destroyed Ryan, Republicans found Biden ridiculous and disrespectful.
> 
> When there's a clear winner, both sides are usually somewhat in agreement, at least over who presented well and who did not. (i.e., everyone agrees that Obama was off his game in the last debate.) Here, it seems to be a draw.


Well, we are all non-partisan here in ehMacLand. I watched it all and I am a Democrat from way back when, and I thought that Biden was not effective until the last half of the debate, Ryan held his own and had a better debating style, and each man did what his party wanted him to do. So, now it's on to the next debate with Pres. Obama and Romney in NYC.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> What was the statement that suggested this to you?


right about the part where Ryan said, 'the policy of a Romney/Ryan administration would be to oppose abortion."

Boom.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> i-rui, I disagree, I think the question was "what is your personal opinion and how does your religion inform that view" .... and he gave it. Whether I agree with his view is secondary, he probably gave the only "true" statement of the night.


In the U.S. system, the federal government can oppose abortions through funding mechanisms. So when Ryan says that “the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother," he is saying that he sees these conditions need to be met to be considered appropriate for federal funding.

He never said that he "wants to reopen the right to choose for women."


----------



## i-rui

Ryan said :



> We don’t think that unelected judges should make this decision; that people through their elected representatives in reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process should make this determination.


certainly sounds like reopening the debate to me.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In the U.S. system, the federal government can oppose abortions through funding mechanisms. So when Ryan says that “the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother," he is saying that he sees these conditions need to be met to be considered appropriate for federal funding.
> 
> He never said that he "wants to reopen the right to choose for women."





i-rui said:


> Ryan said :
> 
> 
> 
> certainly sounds like reopening the debate to me.


Nothing shall be reopened ....................... until he is elected and is able to appoint a Supreme Court justice or two. Then, hold your hats, for it shall be payback time to the wealthy contributors, the Tea Party and the religious right.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> In the U.S. system, the federal government can oppose abortions through funding mechanisms. So when Ryan says that “the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother," *he is saying that he sees these conditions need to be met to be considered appropriate for federal funding.*
> 
> He never said that he "wants to reopen the right to choose for women."


He said nothing of the kind. 

If he actually meant what you read into it, he would have, or should have clarified this. But then he is curiously rather short on any specifics, allowing those who support him the ability to make up what he meant.


----------



## Dr.G.

A 99 percenter, a 1 percenter and a 47 percenter all walk into a bar ......... and the bartender says, "I'm 100% sure that I need a drink".


----------



## MacGuiver

You gotta love Biden's bipolar stance regarding abortion. I'm personally opposed to abortion but support the right of everyone to have one. Sorta like saying I don't believe in beating my wife but support the rights of others to beat their wives. What kind of wacky moral compass does someone possess when they can compromise their conscience concerning the killing of an unborn child?


----------



## i-rui

it's not bipolar at all. it's simply respecting the choice between a woman and her doctor.

if you want to talk bipolar look at "pro-life"ers who support the death penalty.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> it's not bipolar at all. it's simply respecting the choice between a woman and her doctor.
> 
> if you want to talk bipolar look at "pro-life"ers who support the death penalty.


ha ha yeah. 

Just imagine someone who's religious, and says they don't wish to ram it down other's throats.

And people winder why, less and less people consider themselves religious or affiliated with a church now.


----------



## Sonal

MacGuiver said:


> You gotta love Biden's bipolar stance regarding abortion. I'm personally opposed to abortion but support the right of everyone to have one. Sorta like saying I don't believe in beating my wife but support the rights of others to beat their wives. What kind of wacky moral compass does someone possess when they can compromise their conscience concerning the killing of an unborn child?


No, it's more like "I'm vegetarian; I don't support killing animals for food, but I support the rights of others who believe differently than I do."

Conscience is one's personal moral compass. Our individual level of tolerance for other people's beliefs and choices is part of one's conscience.


----------



## bryanc

MacGuiver said:


> You gotta love Biden's bipolar stance regarding abortion. I'm personally opposed to abortion but support the right of everyone to have one. Sorta like saying I don't believe in beating my wife but support the rights of others to beat their wives.


Well, more like being a non-smoker but supporting smoker's rights. Embryos don't exist independently of mothers, so if a mother choses not to allow an embryo to grow in her body that's obviously her choice. But you can certainly say that you would choose to let the embryo grow if it were your body, just like you can say you would choose not to smoke even while supporting the rights of others to chose to harm their bodies with the toxins you choose to avoid.

I don't smoke, and I wish everyone would stop smoking, but there's no way I'd tolerate a law that constrained one's sovereignty over their body and made smoking illegal. Similarly, I wish we lived in a world where no woman would ever have a reason to have an abortion, but there's no way I would tolerate a law that constrained a woman's sovereignty over her body by making abortion illegal.

There's nothing inconsistent here at all.


----------



## groovetube

even nuttier is standing in the way of better access to birth control which actually lowers the number of abortions.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of reason with the religious right.


----------



## bryanc

Not much by way of reason; but potentially some good pick up lines...


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Not much by way of reason; but potentially some good pick up lines...


Make love to them?


----------



## bryanc

*Romney's lies*

too bad this wasn't done in real time during the debate.




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> too bad this wasn't done in real time during the debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Powerful ................ but at least Romney's pants did not catch on fire.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Powerful ................ but at least Romney's pants did not catch on fire.


.


----------



## groovetube

I've seen macfury over and over again try to assert that Obama made government bigger.

Unfortunately, as in Romney's case they're dead wrong.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> I've seen macfury over and over again try to assert that Obama made government bigger.
> 
> Unfortunately, as in Romney's case they're dead wrong.


Technically he's right, but at a rate less than population growth and far less than any Republirat President since Eisenhower. We must be aware that Republirats have a phobia about getting too close to the truth. They do have that tarnished reputation to maintain.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Technically he's right, but at a rate less than population growth and far less than any Republirat President since Eisenhower. We must be aware that Republirats have a phobia about getting too close to the truth. They do have that tarnished reputation to maintain.


Yes, Obama continued to grow the size of the federal government--however, the people claiming he didn't point to a reduction in state government employment, something that has absolutely nothing to do with him.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Yes, Obama continued to grow the size of the federal government--however, the people claiming he didn't point to a reduction in state government employment, something that has absolutely nothing to do with him.


And that is dead right.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Technically he's right, but at a rate less than population growth and far less than any Republirat President since Eisenhower. We must be aware that Republirats have a phobia about getting too close to the truth. They do have that tarnished reputation to maintain.


Not even really technically right. This article explains why: Did Obama really make government bigger? - Jan. 25, 2012

Oddly enough, the constant whinging about government bloat comes after ardently supporting Bush, who truly grew government after Clinton, and here at home, we watched as Harper went on a government bloat plan not seen here in Canada before. And by the headlines today about Harper's out of control advertising budget getting even worse, it seems that isn't slowing down anytime soon. Despite reports to the contrary.

It's a question of credibility when one complains about government bloat. (or debt increases for that matter)


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> And that is dead right.


read more facts.

Nope.

Let's put the wild claims out there and see how insane they are:
PolitiFact | Paul Ryan says Barack Obama 'has doubled the size of government since he took office'

That, and given both republican governments significantly enlarged government (Reagan was the king on that one), it's pretty hallow the claims of growing government.

And that, is dead right.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> And that is dead right.


It's amazing what you can find when you think for yourself and go to first sources instead of making a first stop at partisan hack "fact-checking" sites!


----------



## groovetube

or, perhaps check lots of sources, and discover they are saying the same things.

I know all the fact checkers are upsetting, because they do tend to blow a hole in theories, and as we know Romney really detests 'fact checks'. But anyone is welcome to show strong evidence to the contrary.

The growth in the US government isn't what the right has said it was, not even remotely close. Paul Ryan whom you support is on record that Obama has 'doubled' the size of government. Your comment that federal government hiring helped their job numbers is a joke.

Unless you want to show it, it ain't so.


----------



## groovetube

This is a pretty good basic assessment on why trumpeting Romney as the financial/jobs saviour is a chuckle.
One Thing Romney and Obama Agree On: Big Government - Businessweek


----------



## CubaMark

Round #2 coming up this evening - Will it be a TKO for the big BO?

Methinks Obama will be served up a little more of this... RomneyTaxPlan


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, I think Obama is done, since Romney can't really loose this debate. If Obama comes across too harsh he will be "un-presidential", if too kind, he will be seen as weak. All Romney has to do is just look human. If he can replicate the first, he'll be seen as the winner here, then look out!!!!!

I fear the GOP might win and it will be closer than the "W" election......


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Round #2 coming up this evening - Will it be a TKO for the big BO?
> 
> Methinks Obama will be served up a little more of this... RomneyTaxPlan


We shall see, mi amigo. A great deal rides on tonight's debate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I think Obama is done, since Romney can't really loose this debate. If Obama comes across too harsh he will be "un-presidential", if too kind, he will be seen as weak. All Romney has to do is just look human. If he can replicate the first, he'll be seen as the winner here, then look out!!!!!
> 
> I fear the GOP might win and it will be closer than the "W" election......




Say it ain't so Joe - 8 Men Out - YouTube

Keep the faith, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Say it ain't so Joe - 8 Men Out - YouTube
> 
> Keep the faith, mon ami.


Dr. G. , here in Michigan a recent poll has Romney in the lead by 10 points when they asked Left-handed, male short people from a non-visible minority, who are staunch fence-sitters, who may or may not have worked in the auto industry or related manufacturing company, who were alive the last time the Cubs won the World Series. Evidently he leads Obama by 3 point from women in the same category.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G. , here in Michigan a recent poll has Romney in the lead by 10 points when they asked Left-handed, male short people from a non-visible minority, who a staunch fence-sitter, who may or may not have worked in the auto industry or related manufacturing company, who were alive the last time the Cubs won the World Series. Evidently he leads Obama by 3 point from women in the same category.


The Cubs have not won the World Series in 104 years, so that cuts down the numbers a bit.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> The Cubs have not won the World Series in 104 years, so that cuts down the numbers a bit.


Yes, he's been trying to get out that registered vote segment beejacon


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Yes, he's been trying to get out that registered vote segment beejacon


Well, these then are the folks that remember the days before the US implemented the income tax. The origin of the income tax on individuals is generally cited as the passage of the 16th Amendment, passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I think Obama is done, since Romney can't really loose this debate. If Obama comes across too harsh he will be "un-presidential", if too kind, he will be seen as weak. All Romney has to do is just look human. If he can replicate the first, he'll be seen as the winner here, then look out!!!!!
> 
> I fear the GOP might win and it will be closer than the "W" election......


Obama is extremely slow on his feet, and I suspect he really doesn't know what he's going to be experiencing tonight. Even if this looks like a draw, it's a win for Romney.

I think the VP debate lat week did a lot to introduce Ryan as a decent, thoughtful fellow. While the bizarre "Uncle Joe" persona of Biden seemed to delight Democrats already committed to voting for their party, I believe it put many other people off and did nothing to reverse polls that are trending against Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

Tinker to Evers to Chance

These are the saddest of possible words:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double –
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

By Franklin Pierce Adams
New York Evening Mail July 10, 1910

Today ............

These are the saddest of possible words:
“Romney to Ryan to Paul.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Romney to Ryan to Paul.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making our billionaires double –
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
“Romney to Ryan to Paul.”


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I think I agree.


----------



## groovetube

VP debates have historically did little to affect polls before anyway.

Romney has now gone on record the last debate on quite a number of things. So, while I can't predict what's in store for tonight or how Obama will perform, that's provided some nice battering rams for Obama.

I guess we'll see. A draw won't reverse things much. Perhaps that 47% battering ram is being saved for last.


----------



## groovetube

Obama extends slim lead over Romney ahead of second debate - The Globe and Mail

Well Romney better recreate his last showing.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I think Obama is done, since Romney can't really loose this debate. If Obama comes across too harsh he will be "un-presidential", if too kind, he will be seen as weak. All Romney has to do is just look human. If he can replicate the first, he'll be seen as the winner here, then look out!!!!!
> 
> I fear the GOP might win and it will be closer than the "W" election......


As a recent Rolling Stone article stated, the fact that Romney is even considered a contender is jaw-dropping. Given the disastrous economic hit job of the last Republican President, returning to a party of "tax cuts = prosperity!" is simply an insane proposition.

Like many folks out there who were pleased to see Obama win in 2008, I am nonetheless extremely disappointed in the policy decisions he's made. I will cut him some slack for dealing with an obstructionist party across the aisle, but there were things within his power to do that were left untouched.

As for Romney as a candidate... apart from the ridiculous lack of specificity in his policy positions, I find his public persona about as trustworthy as a hungry dog laying beside the dining room table. The moment you look away, your pork chops are gone. His "sincere face" puts chills up my spine. _Creepy_ is the word I guess I'm looking for.

In any event... let's reconvene a bit late for the post-game show


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I think Obama is done, since Romney can't really loose this debate. If Obama comes across too harsh he will be "un-presidential", if too kind, he will be seen as weak. All Romney has to do is just look human. If he can replicate the first, he'll be seen as the winner here, then look out!!!!!
> 
> I fear the GOP might win and it will be closer than the "W" election......


Keep in mind that looking human for Romney is a major effort.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Keep in mind that looking human for Romney is a major effort.


Well, Romney looked human in last night's debate, especially when he became a bit flustered at times with the flow of this debate.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Keep in mind that looking human for Romney is a major effort.


At least he avoided the back-up back pack battery that Bush needed to get him through his debates. Or maybe they went with a miniature version that poohed out on him.


----------



## MacDoc

Romney looks confident and comfortable when he talks about being a governor and delivering jobs.
He looks immensely uncomfortable on anything to do with foreign policy and in delivering the more idiotic of the Repugly talking points that he clearly has trouble swallowing.

He talked like a governor with limited powers and limited international experience - not a president in waiting.
Obama was president in practice and his problem is in countering the "we'll fix it all" nonsense coming from the Repugs. There is no simple solution - it's complex and long term - Obama knows it but that's a hard pitch to people out of work in a weak economy.

Romney talking about bipartisan anything was ironic in the extreme given his party's criminal record of obstruction


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> There is no simple solution - it's complex and long term - Obama knows it but that's a hard pitch to people out of work in a weak economy.


Especially hard pitch when none of Obama's policies have achieved the results he promised. Perhaps it will take another four years to bring the country fully to its knees.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Especially hard pitch when none of Obama's policies have achieved the results he promised. Perhaps it will take another four years to bring the country fully to its knees.


Bringing the country to its knees has been a truly bi-partisan effort starting at least as far back as Reagan. Whether incompetence or deliberate plan is perhaps open to debate. It is clear however that the corporations pulling the party strings have delivered handsomely to said corps at the expense of the taxpayer.


----------



## i-rui

Finally, there's a site where you can see details about Romney's tax plan!!

For all the details on Mitt Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax plan visit ROMNEYTAXPLAN.COM


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Bringing the country to its knees has been a truly bi-partisan effort starting at least as far back as Reagan. Whether incompetence or deliberate plan is perhaps open to debate. It is clear however that the corporations pulling the party strings have delivered handsomely to said corps at the expense of the taxpayer.


Reaganomics created scores of wealthy people, mostly in banking and the brokerage houses, as the "me generation" kicked into high gear.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Reaganomics created scores of wealthy people, mostly in banking and the brokerage houses, as the "me generation" kicked into high gear.


In addition to a massive improvement in the economic health of the middle class.


----------



## Macfury

Today's Gallup has Romney up by 6:

Election 2012 Likely Voters Trial Heat: Obama vs. Romney


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Today's Gallup has Romney up by 6:
> 
> Election 2012 Likely Voters Trial Heat: Obama vs. Romney


Well, this does it for Pres. Obama then. I don't see this as another Gallup poll miscue, as in 1948 when they reported that only 36% of the people thought that Truman was doing a good job as President. Still, I am waiting to see what the Chicago Tribune has to say about Romney. When they say he's the winner, we can start the celebration.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this does it for Pres. Obama then. I don't see this as another Gallup poll miscue, as in 1948 when they reported that only 36% of the people thought that Truman was doing a good job as President. Still, I am waiting to see what the Chicago Tribune has to say about Romney. When they say he's the winner, we can start the celebration.


The only poll that matters is the final poll. However, this and many other recent polls show up many left-leaning pundits who declared it in the bag for Obama months ago.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Today's Gallup has Romney up by 6:


Yes, as do a couple of other polls. However, an exactly equal number of polls have Romney down by an exactly equal margin. This is what is known as statistical noise.

On an unrelated topic, I find it interesting that Massachusetts, Governor Romney's home state; is polling MASSIVELY in favour of Obama. I wonder why.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The only poll that matters is the final poll. However, this and many other recent polls show up many left-leaning pundits who declared it in the bag for Obama months ago.


Amen, Brother. Correct once again. 

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Obama Brigade,
Noble but blundered.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Yes, as do a couple of other polls. However, an exactly equal number of polls have Romney down by an exactly equal margin. This is what is known as statistical noise.
> 
> On an unrelated topic, I find it interesting that Massachusetts, Governor Romney's home state; is polling MASSIVELY in favour of Obama. I wonder why.


Massachusetts voted against Pres. Nixon back in 1972 .......... when only the District of Columbia voted in favor of George McGovern. What do you expect from them??? They are ungrateful for all the good that Romney brought to their state when he was governor. Just wait until a President Romney tells them "No soup for you!!!"


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> However, this and many other recent polls show up many left-leaning pundits who declared it in the bag for Obama months ago.


I'm surprised it's this close. When Obama was elected I, and many others, opined that he'd be a one term president, because whoever wound up on the receiving end of the bill that was inevitably coming after the Bush train wreck, was in a no-win scenario. This is why many people thought the Republicans essentially didn't contest the last election (I mean, Sarah Palin for V.P.?!? Seriously?)... Everyone knew the US economy was in for a world of hurt and whoever occupied the White House was going to have to wear that, so let the Democrats ride that tiger if they want it.

But it seems Obama has managed to keep much of that from sticking to him (primarily due to the Republican Obstruction Machine being too effective; everyone knows the Republicans have prevented most of the things Obama and the Democrats wanted to try to fix the problem, so the fact that the economy hasn't recovered is not really sticking to the president). And the 1%'ers are starting to get impatient; their pet politicians aren't pulling their weight, so this time they're not going to sit back and let their minions flounder around ineffectually. The Koch Bros, and the other mighty Captains of Industry are cracking the whip; vote Republican or get laid off!


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I'm surprised it's this close. When Obama was elected I, and many others, opined that he'd be a one term president, because whoever wound up on the receiving end of the bill that was inevitably coming after the Bush train wreck, was in a no-win scenario. This is why many people thought the Republicans essentially didn't contest the last election (I mean, Sarah Palin for V.P.?!? Seriously?)... Everyone knew the US economy was in for a world of hurt and whoever occupied the White House was going to have to wear that, so let the Democrats ride that tiger if they want it.
> 
> But it seems Obama has managed to keep much of that from sticking to him (primarily due to the Republican Obstruction Machine being too effective; everyone knows the Republicans have prevented most of the things Obama and the Democrats wanted to try to fix the problem, so the fact that the economy hasn't recovered is not really sticking to the president). And the 1%'ers are starting to get impatient; their pet politicians aren't pulling their weight, so this time they're not going to sit back and let their minions flounder around ineffectually. The Koch Bros, and the other mighty Captains of Industry are cracking the whip; vote Republican or get laid off!


Hey, the Koch brothers have a big investment in Romney, and they do NOT like to lose. I have a feeling that these Captains of Industry would not have supported TR as well.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Yes, as do a couple of other polls. However, an exactly equal number of polls have Romney down by an exactly equal margin. This is what is known as statistical noise.


Actually, you would be incorrect on this. I keep track of a large number of polls and Romney overall tracks higher than Obama--and has over the past two or weeks. Interestingly, many of these polls oversample Democrats significantly, by as much as 9 per cent. I have not seen a single poll at this point that oversamples Republican respondents.

Statistical noise becomes significant when it becomes consistent.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Actually, you would be incorrect on this.


Not according to 538.



538 said:


> A weekly survey conducted by Public Policy Polling for the blog Daily Kos had Mitt Romney ahead by four points among likely voters. So did the Gallup national tracking poll, which had Mr. Romney hitting 50 percent of the vote for the first time.
> 
> It would be terrific news for Mr. Romney if he were consistently at 50 percent in the polls. That threshold would ensure that he could win (or at least tie) the popular vote, even without picking up any additional support from undecided voters.
> 
> But other national polls published on Tuesday were not in agreement with the Gallup and Public Policy Polling numbers. Rather, three of the six national polls published on Tuesday had Mr. Obama leading the race. The same three polls also had Mr. Obama improving his numbers from the previous edition of the same survey, while the other three had him declining.


----------



## groovetube

The truth is, whatever bounce or momentum isn't going to happen the next morning after the debate. It'll take days before any real trend can be tracked. The race is still very much a horse race, and we still have 3 weeks to go on this one, with neither side taking off in a real lead.

Obama had one emerging a few weeks ago, that was blunted by his poor debate performance the first time round. Now that he came back really strong, and having seen Romney gaffe horribly for the women's vote, it'll be interesting to see where this goes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Right, a poll reported in the New York Times. Give me a break. Watch FoxNews if you want to see what is really happening in America. Romney will avenge the LBJ landslide in 1964 and show America what a real conservative president will be able to do. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Not according to 538.


I am talking about weeks of polling, not just polls released on October 16th. However, delve into those October 16th numbers to see the consistent oversampling of Democrats.


----------



## groovetube

ah yes, the oversampling of the democrats crap from Fox news.

One really needs to step a little further back from the noise to get it.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ah yes, the oversampling of the democrats crap from Fox news.
> 
> One really needs to step a little further back from the noise to get it.


If it's on Fox News it is TRUE. I respect their views more than I respect Macfury's views, and they are both usually always correct. Get with the program, gt. Do you want to back a loser??? You shall never make it up to the 1% category with that sort of thinking.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> If it's on Fox News it is TRUE. I respect their views more than I respect Macfury's views, and they are both usually always correct. Get with the program, gt. Do you want to back a loser??? You shall never make it up to the 1% category with that sort of thinking.


Do a little research Dr. G. If you follow the polls to their origin, you can download the entire results of each poll. At the end of the document you can usually find the party affiliations of the respondents. I was wondering of the oversampling accusations were correct, and found them to be accurate. A few polls did not state the nature of their sample and one or two gave only slight edges to Democrats.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Do a little research Dr. G. If you follow the polls to their origin, you can download the entire results of each poll. At the end of the document you can usually find the party affiliations of the respondents. I was wondering of the oversampling accusations were correct, and found them to be accurate. A few polls did not state the nature of their sample and one or two gave only slight edges to Democrats.


True .............. but I would rather get the right POV from Fox News and you. Sadly, one does not hear much of Ron Paul these days. While I did not support many of his policies, I did like him as an honest politician.


----------



## margarok

*A little Ron Paul for those missing his pragmatism...*

I'm here in mid-USA (aka flyover country) and am resigned to having no real choice at the polls. I like to think there are many of us who understand what Dr. Paul is saying...



Ron Paul: A Major Event Could Occur during the Next Administration - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> True .............. but I would rather get the right POV from Fox News and you. Sadly, one does not hear much of Ron Paul these days. While I did not support many of his policies, I did like him as an honest politician.


Yes G, speaking to each poll respondent, and ensuring an accurate listing is important. I mean you wouldn't want to you know, just take someone else's records as totally accurate.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Yes G, speaking to each poll respondent, and ensuring an accurate listing is important. I mean you wouldn't want to you know, just take someone else's records as totally accurate.


Well, why would Romney lie to us???? He wants to be president.


----------



## bryanc

margarok said:


> I'm here in mid-USA (aka flyover country) and am resigned to having no real choice at the polls. I like to think there are many of us who understand what Dr. Paul is saying.


Hi Margarok,

Welcome to EhMac. Believe me, from my experience of living in the Excited States, I can understand your frustration at being surrounded by people who are determined to ruin their country by ceding control to corporate puppets. I also have friends in several of the flyover states who despair for any semblance of rational thought to return to the political circus.

But I think what we Canadians find so horrifying about what is happening in the US is that, historically, Canada follows almost inevitably where the US leads. And we can certainly see that now with the rise of anti-intellectual irrational ultra-rightwing politicians here.

So we wish you well in stemming the tide of irrational fear and theocracy.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I'm here in mid-USA (aka flyover country) and am resigned to having no real choice at the polls. I like to think there are many of us who understand what Dr. Paul is saying...


I would disagree with bryanc altogether, Margarok--Canada is now freer and citizens pay fewer taxes than their counterparts in the U.S. Some Canadians want to push Canada further toward socialism, which they have re-branded progressivism, but their efforts have so far borne little fruit.

If I were an American I would have wanted to see Ron Paul as President, but I still see a distinct choice between the two remaining presidential candidates--and Mr. Obama is in no way like Ron Paul.


----------



## groovetube

sure, one wants everyone to buy his fantasy land of huge tax cuts, spending waaaay more money, and somehow, as if like magic, that deficit will shrink.

Just ask George Bush or Reagen how that all worked out!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If I were an American I would have wanted to see Ron Paul as President, but I still see a distinct choice between the two remaining presidential candidates--and Mr. Obama is in no way like Ron Paul.


THANK G_D!!!!! If you think Ron Paul is the answer to America's problems then you have no understanding of macroeconomic theory ........ period!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> THANK G_D!!!!! If you think Ron Paul is the answer to America's problems then you have no understanding of macroeconomic theory ........ period!


Keynesian!


----------



## Rps

"Returning to Gold-Standard"


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> "Returning to Gold-Standard"


A full gold standard is as bad an idea as quantitative easing. However, I see no problem with backing a certain percentage of the currency with gold, provided the ratio is low enough.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> A full gold standard is as bad an idea as quantitative easing. However, I see no problem with backing a certain percentage of the currency with gold, provided the ratio is low enough.


Then why do it? The problem is we live under a fiat economy. A standard anything brings up valuation problems. as currencies and commodities are both subject to valuation swings. Also, you would limit your capability for economic expansion under such an approach, since you would only be able to grow if you had freed up gold to back it up ....what ever value that might be.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Then why do it? The problem is we live under a fiat economy. A standard anything brings up valuation problems. as currencies and commodities are both subject to valuation swings. Also, you would limit your capability for economic expansion under such an approach, since you would only be able to grow if you had freed up gold to back it up ....what ever value that might be.


I understand. But a fiat economy is also what leads to monstrous bubbles and subsequent bursts.

Paul never suggested going to a full gold standard, and suggests that the currency could be backed up by other commodities as well. He objects to what amounts to the creation of vast amounts of currency for the purpose of political expediency. Also, I believe that the value of gold fluctuates so much simply because people lose faith in fiat currency. Moving to a point where the currency has some back-up value, even though it would not be face value, may not be as damaging as you believe.


----------



## margarok

I'm certainly interested in the discussion here... much better than the scripted debates. After the recent supposed town-hall debate, I wondered at the odd way the questions were phrased, so I did a little research and discovered the ugly truth about presidential debates... 

Who's Afraid of an Open Debate? The Truth About the Commission on Presidential Debates - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I'm certainly interested in the discussion here... much better than the scripted debates. After the recent supposed town-hall debate, I wondered at the odd way the questions were phrased, so I did a little research and discovered the ugly truth about presidential debates...


Why did Candy Crowley have a Benghazi transcript ready? Too much of a set-up.

Any presidential candidate who meets a pre-set level of support should take part in the debate.


----------



## groovetube

how dare anyone much less a moderator set a fact straight.

Especially someone who was probably at the event in question


----------



## i-rui

debates need more facts, not less.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> debates need more facts, not less.


Sure, but why was she able to find it in 4 seconds? She knew she was going to use it.


----------



## i-rui

probably because Romney and his running mate (Fox News) have been using the embassy tragedy to attack Obama for several weeks through the media. The moderator did her homework and educated herself on the facts.

I'd love it if these debates had a "bulls**t" buzzer the moderator could activate.... candidates would be a lot more careful with the statements they put out there.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Sure, but why was she able to find it in 4 seconds? She knew she was going to use it.


Did she have an army of fact-checkers look up stuff in the background and telling her things?


----------



## screature

i-rui said:


> probably because Romney and his running mate (Fox News) have been using the embassy tragedy to attack Obama for several weeks through the media. The moderator did her homework and educated herself on the facts.
> 
> I'd love it if these debates had a "*bulls**t" buzzer the moderator could activate*.... candidates would be a lot more careful with the statements they put out there.


It should *never* be a moderator to call BS in a debate or to correct a point, that is not their role, it is up to the debaters to defend their points and refute their opponents with facts at the ready. Otherwise it isn't a debate.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> Sure, but why was she able to find it in 4 seconds? She knew she was going to use it.


In the video I linked above, I discovered how the questions are not only pre-selected and approved by all parties, the moderator(s) are pre-briefed about what they can and can not discuss. So while there are no teleprompters, the answers have already been written and practiced. No other questions are allowed per Debate Commission rules. If one participant asks the other a question, it is out of line... Remember when W appealed to Jim Leher when Algore asked him a question? "Uh, Jim? The rules?" Anyway... I knew it was very scripted, but figured they just practiced answers to general topics. Now, I know they know the actual questions in advance, even at "town halls." (Oh, and the questioner's microphone goes off as soon as the pre-approved question is out. No follow-on or discussion allowed.)

@irui	"debates need more facts, not less" Debates could use some actual debate too.


----------



## groovetube

it's not that surprising that republican supporters are miffed that someone provided clarity on a fact.

Can you imagine if that happened more often?


----------



## MacDoc

good article

Blue States Are From Scandinavia, Red States Are From Guatemala | The New Republic


----------



## groovetube

seems this is now everywhere:
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Avery Economy Binder with 1-Inch Round Ring, Black, 1 Binder (3301)


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> good article
> 
> Blue States Are From Scandinavia, Red States Are From Guatemala | The New Republic


Funny that the blue states are the ones teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.


----------



## groovetube

Mitt Romney Is Lying. Again. | Tim Dickinson | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Well. Given Romney's outlandish spending promises with huge cuts in revenue, I'm surprised any fiscal conservative would try and defend this disaster in the making.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Funny that the blue states are the ones teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.


Yeah I hear food stamps are a big driver of things in the red states... :lmao:


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Funny that the blue states are the ones teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.


I know how you right-wingers hate facts and all, but I took the liberty of looking up the rankings of the state finances here, and then overlaid the voting patterns from here, and the result is illustrated below; there doesn't appear to be much of a correlation to me, but I can do the binomial regression if you like.


----------



## MacDoc

Doesn't need much of a cross check for this - Repugly voters in bold



> T*he bottom 10 poorest states*
> Where median incomes are lowest
> Rank State Median Income
> *1 Mississippi $35,693
> 2 Arkansas $37,987
> 3 West Virginia $39,170
> 4 Tennessee $40,034
> 5 South Carolina $41,548
> 6 Montana $41,587
> 7 Kentucky $41,828
> 8 Alabama $42,144
> 9 North Carolina $42,337
> 10 Louisiana $42,423*





> *The top 10 wealthiest states*
> Where median income is highest
> Rank State Median Income
> 1 New Hampshire $65,028
> 2 New Jersey $64,918
> 3 Connecticut $64,644
> 4 Maryland $63,828
> 5 *Alaska $62,675*
> 6 Virginia $61,126 < undecided
> 7 *Utah $60,396*
> 8 Massachusetts $59,732
> 9 Hawaii $58,469
> 10 Washington $58,404


Why that's working out realllllly well for those citizens intending on voting Repugly.

2012 Presidential Election Interactive Map and History of the Electoral College

quite a record there for the right wing....


----------



## groovetube

regardless of what non facts are being tossed out, anyone can agree that this is freaking hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwilbVYvUg


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I know how you right-wingers hate facts and all, but I took the liberty of looking up the rankings of the state finances ....


As I said, the states closest to bankruptcy, not their credit ratings.


----------



## screature

margarok said:


> In the video I linked above, I discovered how the questions are not only pre-selected and approved by all parties, the moderator(s) are pre-briefed about what they can and can not discuss. So while there are no teleprompters, the answers have already been written and practiced. No other questions are allowed per Debate Commission rules. If one participant asks the other a question, it is out of line... Remember when W appealed to Jim Leher when Algore asked him a question? "Uh, Jim? The rules?" Anyway... I knew it was very scripted, but figured they just practiced answers to general topics. Now, I know they know the actual questions in advance, even at "town halls." (Oh, and the questioner's microphone goes off as soon as the pre-approved question is out. No follow-on or discussion allowed.)
> 
> @irui	"*debates need more facts, not less" Debates could use some actual debate too.*


Really good point margarok.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> regardless of what non facts are being tossed out, anyone can agree that this is freaking hilarious.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwilbVYvUg


Actually think this makes more sense than some of the other scripted answers. :clap:


----------



## groovetube

I thought so!


----------



## MacDoc

laugh of the day


----------



## bryanc

Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election.

Quelle surprise.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election.
> 
> Quelle surprise.



Spell it out for us, bryanc.


----------



## screature

MacDoc said:


> laugh of the day


:lmao:


----------



## MacDoc

The crooks in the GOP are having their cover blown at an awkward time....



> A man originally reported to have been working for the Republican Party of Virginia was arrested by the Rockingham County, Va., Sheriff’s Office on Thursday and charged with attempting to destroy voter registration forms by tossing them into a dumpster behind a shopping center in Harrisonburg, Va.
> 
> “Prosecutors charged him with four counts of destruction of voter registration applications, eight counts of failing to disclose voter registration applications and one count of obstruction of justice,” according to a report late Thursday afternoon from TPM’s Ryan Reilly. More charges could be forthcoming, according to officials.
> 
> But there is more to the story, as evidence emerges to document that it ties into a still-expanding nationwide GOP Voter Registration Fraud Scandal that the BRAD BLOG first began reporting in late September, after we’d learned that the Republican Party of Florida had turned in more than 100 allegedly fraudulent and otherwise suspect voter registration forms in Palm Beach County. The story has continued to widen ever since, to a dozen Florida counties and several other states, now including Virginia, and even to the upper-echelons of the Republican Party itself.
> 
> The man arrested today was 23-year-old Colin Small of Phoenixville, Pa. As it turns out, he does not only work for the Virginia Republican Party. According to an online profile, he appears to be working for the Republican National Committee and, prior to that, served as an Intern for Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa., in the U.S. House of Representatives.
> 
> Joseph Tanfani at the Los Angeles Times is reporting that Small was “working as a supervisor as part of a registration operation in eight swing states financed by the Republican National Committee.”


GOP voter registration scandal widens - Salon.com

Man registering voters for GOP accused of tossing forms in trash - latimes.com

why am I not surprised ...


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> The crooks in the GOP are having their cover blown at an awkward time....
> 
> 
> 
> GOP voter registration scandal widens - Salon.com
> 
> Man registering voters for GOP accused of tossing forms in trash - latimes.com
> 
> why am I not surprised ...


Well, in all fairness, Romney really needs to win this state.


----------



## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> The crooks in the GOP are having their cover blown at an awkward time....
> 
> 
> 
> GOP voter registration scandal widens - Salon.com
> 
> Man registering voters for GOP accused of tossing forms in trash - latimes.com
> 
> why am I not surprised ...


can you ah, spell it out for us macdoc.


----------



## eMacMan

Could be applied this side of the border as well.


----------



## Macfury

Here's a good rundown of current alleged voter fraud scandals by both Democrats and Republicans:

Are Operatives From Both Parties Systematically Committing Election Fraud? | Market Daily News


----------



## CubaMark

> New details are emerging revealing the confusion surrounding the attack on the US consulate in Libya that left Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead: For 10 days after the attack, the CIA told President Obama in his daily intelligence briefing that the siege came out of a spontaneous protest. It wasn't until Sept. 22 that that assessment was adjusted to indicate a terrorist attack,


(Wall Street Journal via Newser)


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Here's a good rundown of current alleged voter fraud scandals by both Democrats and Republicans:
> 
> Are Operatives From Both Parties Systematically Committing Election Fraud? | Market Daily News


So, not having anywhere near an understanding of the voter registration system in the U.S., the question is, is it that much different from ours? I mean really, how difficult can it be to register for voting???? Or is this another case of each state runs its own show differently and as such opens the doors for manipulation??? Anyone know how their system differs from ours, or more importantly for us, can we have registration fraud here ( or do we not care )?


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> So, not having anywhere near an understanding of the voter registration system in the U.S., the question is, is it that much different from ours? I mean really, how difficult can it be to register for voting???? Or is this another case of each state runs its own show differently and as such opens the doors for manipulation??? Anyone know how their system differs from ours, or more importantly for us, can we have registration fraud here ( or do we not care )?


Each state is different. More often than not the party in control can do things like redrawing district lines. This little stunt cost Dennis Kucinich his seat in the House of Representatives. A shame, as he and Ron Paul were about the only honest ones left in Washington.


----------



## eMacMan

Notice that Russell Means of AIM has died. A better man than history will give credit.

Liked this quote in particular: 


> But Means always considered himself a Libertarian and couldn't believe that anyone would want to call themselves either a Republican or a Democrat.
> 
> "It's just unconscionable that America has become so stupid," he said.


----------



## Dr.G.

"He told folks he was the ideal candidate for the tea party," Obama said of Romney's stance during the primary season. "Now suddenly he is saying 'What, who me?' He is forgetting what his own positions are and he is betting that you are too. I mean he is changing up so much, backtracking and sidestepping."

Obama said he and his supporters needed to come up with a term for "this condition he is going through," settling on "Romnesia."

This is better than Mr. Etch-a-Sketch.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> So, not having anywhere near an understanding of the voter registration system in the U.S., the question is, is it that much different from ours? I mean really, how difficult can it be to register for voting???? Or is this another case of each state runs its own show differently and as such opens the doors for manipulation??? Anyone know how their system differs from ours, or more importantly for us, can we have registration fraud here ( or do we not care )?


I examined both systems recently, and each state is different--they only need to produce a uniform electoral college contribution, after all.

Our federal system is slightly more rigorous than most states. Many of the new and proposed voter registration requirements in the U.S. would produce a system similar to ours.


----------



## groovetube

Pennsylvania Newspaper Owned By Top Right-Wing Funder Falsely Claims ID Is Required To Vote | ThinkProgress

If you can't win, just cheat.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Pennsylvania Newspaper Owned By Top Right-Wing Funder Falsely Claims ID Is Required To Vote | ThinkProgress
> 
> If you can't win, just cheat.


Again, think about how important PA is in this election ................ along with NC and FL. This is a high stakes game, and Romney can't count on hanging chads this election.


----------



## MacDoc

This debate is NOT Romney's strong point. This Obama's strength and it shows.
Romney made a serious error talking about a 1917 Navy and Obama really slammed him on - ridiculed really and the audience could hardly stay silent.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> This debate is NOT Romney's strong point. This Obama's strength and it shows.
> Romney made a serious error talking about a 1917 Navy and Obama really slammed him on - ridiculed really and the audience could hardly stay silent.


True ................... but Romney WAS right in his stance that America had less horses for cavalry charges. Who needs aircraft carriers and subs. 

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse & hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!


----------



## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> This debate is NOT Romney's strong point. This Obama's strength and it shows.
> Romney made a serious error talking about a 1917 Navy and Obama really slammed him on - ridiculed really and the audience could hardly stay silent.


that was brutal. I almost, almost felt bad for the guy. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Obama has nothing to gain here. Completely mired in Benghazi.


----------



## groovetube

I uhhh... guess you haven't noticed Romney not going there... :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> that was brutal. I almost, almost felt bad for the guy. :lmao:


True ................ and the pity vote will launch Romney into the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

Romney won hands down. He captured the pity vote, he captured the votes of those who own horses and could sell those horses to the cavalry, he won on foreign policy by saying nothing ................ sort of reminds me of the campaign of Warren Harding. So, it's on to victory, it is on to the White House, and on to the Little Bighorn for the Romney campaign.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Bayonet Company of America, a Bain controlled company (which uses Chinese steel, and are made in China, but sold in America) has seen it's stock soar in after hours trading on Wall Street and on the Hang Seng market this morning in Hong Kong. Romney is becoming even richer since he holds stock in this company. Not sure how many soldiers will want to undertake a bayonet charge, but they will all have one.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Bayonet Company of America, a Bain controlled company (which uses Chinese steel, and are made in China, but sold in America) has seen it's stock soar in after hours trading on Wall Street and on the Hang Seng market this morning in Hong Kong. Romney is becoming even richer since he holds stock in this company. Not sure how many soldiers will want to undertake a bayonet charge, but they will all have one.


Perhaps with the Chinese so enriched, they won't come down as hard on the trillions Obama has borrowed from them to finance the "summer of recovery" in 2010.


----------



## groovetube

Romney looked like a bumbling fool licking Obama's heels.

I understand what Romney's strategy may have been, but he executed it poorly. 

What makes me really chuckle though, is after hearing how swinging hard right was really the way to win this election, the total apposite is actually true. Romney swings left, and lookie! His poll numbers go up.

Wonder why


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Romney looked like a bumbling fool licking Obama's heels.
> 
> I understand what Romney's strategy may have been, but he executed it poorly.
> 
> What makes me really chuckle though, is after hearing how swinging hard right was really the way to win this election, the total apposite is actually true. Romney swings left, and lookie! His poll numbers go up.
> 
> Wonder why


Because, gt, that was the route to victory for Romney. Swing hard right to win the primaries and the nomination, then swing left to the center to win the election. A winning strategy.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Because, gt, that was the route to victory for Romney. Swing hard right to win the primaries and the nomination, then swing left to the center to win the election. A winning strategy.


Yep. You wouldn't want the actual electorate to think you're too close to being a libertarian! Not a winning strategy.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Yep. You wouldn't want the actual electorate to think you're too close to being a libertarian! Not a winning strategy.


True. It did not work for Ron Paul, who is an honest politician, so best that Romney does a Ali-like "peek a boo" for these next two weeks.


----------



## MacDoc

> This isn't a game of Battleship. - Barack Obama


----------



## MacDoc

The Biggest Zinger Of The Night


----------



## MacDoc

Getting very amusing out there










more

Daily Kos: Horses And Bayonets Tweets and Pics

InstaPoll gave Obama a big win.

CBS insta-poll: Obama wins debate, 53 percent to 23 percent - Politico
www.politico.com/.../cbs-instapoll-obama-wins-debate-perc...


----------



## eMacMan

*A blimp promoting bloat*

How appropriate. Romney believes in increasing Government spending and reducing taxes but only to his really rich buddies. 

Is there any better way to promote trickle up economics?



> A blimp promoting Republican Mitt Romney for president is flying over south Denver these days, the work of a Colorado group formed by a political newcomer who decided it was time to get involved.
> 
> Sid Overton, who spearheaded the group, Citizens to Save America, said he didn't get personally involved in the 2008 election.
> 
> Read more: Blimp promoting Romney flies over south Denver - The Denver Post Blimp promoting Romney flies over south Denver - The Denver Post
> Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: Terms of Use - The Denver Post


----------



## groovetube

Romney's plan was simply to try and mimic the president's foreign policy standing. The problem is, he came off quite transparently as imitating Obama too much, almost o the point of appearing like the kid who repeat everything you say to annoy you, and Obama stung him badly a couple times making him look not only confused, but simply incapable of understanding 21st century foreign policy. It may not move those poll numbers significantly, but I doubt it'll dent the polls on Obamas favorable rating on foreign policy.


----------



## Macfury

Obama tried desperately to lure Romney into talking about subjects for which he was well prepared. He failed utterly. Romney's strategy here was to simply avoid kiling the momentum he's enjoying by simply saying little that was controversial. Obama never caught on.


----------



## groovetube

did we watch the same debate? 

Seems Romney wasn't very well prepared on most of the main points. Which led to some real gaffes on the military, and Israel.

It seems to be the opinion of many on both sides, those who watched the debate in any case.

I noticed Romney didn't want to go near Libya mch. WOnder why? :lmao:


----------



## MacDoc

skewered  some funny images

?Horses and bayonets? follows ?Big Bird? and ?binders? as debate catchphrase - thestar.com


----------



## i-rui

Obama beat him handily. Romney (as usual) lacked any substance, but since Americans are notorious navel gazers i don't think a foreign policy debate really impacts much in the grand scheme of things.

It will be tight, but i still think Obama will take it.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Obama beat him handily. Romney (as usual) lacked any substance, but since Americans are notorious navel gazers i don't think a foreign policy debate really impacts much in the grand scheme of things..


Much lower viewership on this one.


----------



## groovetube

ha ha ha. First it's Romney was victorious, and now, oh no one saw this one. 

you sure wouldn't want voters to have seen that one!

But everyone will see the sound bytes.


----------



## Rps

From a stance point of view, I think Obama won, but from a campaign view, it was Romney, since there was no knock out punch. The comment on sabres and horses was a good one, but in the final analysis, who really gives a rats ass about foreign policy when you've been unemployed for 4 years... no the economy is the key here and Romney seems to have a lock on that issue. But it all comes down to about 10 states and if they go to Romney then it's over for Obama. If California goes GOP look out as the Senate may go that way as well. So I'm waiting for declared polls closer to the election date to see how Florida, Texas, California, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New York go......


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> From a stance point of view, I think Obama won, but from a campaign view, it was Romney, since there was no knock out punch. The comment on sabres and horses was a good one, but in the final analysis, who really gives a rats ass about foreign policy when you've been unemployed for 4 years... no the economy is the key here and Romney seems to have a lock on that issue. But it all comes down to about 10 states and if they go to Romney then it's over for Obama. If California goes GOP look out as the Senate may go that way as well. So I'm waiting for declared polls closer to the election date to see how Florida, Texas, California, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New York go......


Note how Romney refused to take Obama's bait several times. All Romney needed to do was prove he had a broad knowledge of foreign policy and look presidential. It was Obama who became scrappy and pugnacious—for a fight that never came.


----------



## MacDoc

If only


----------



## groovetube

I don't think, judging from the polls, that either of them really have any 'lock' on the issue of the economy at all. Or you'd see Romney leading Ohio, and other battlegrounds. Not tied or slightly behind (statistically I know)

At this point, it'll depend a lot on voter turnout (which will favor Obama) and, as you mentioned, those battleground states. Romney looked foolish on foreign policy, I don't think he necessarily lost any supporters he had, but I doubt he gained many from it.

If someone is going to vote for Romney because of issues like the economy, they're going to whether they liked him in this debate or not.


----------



## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> If only


Interesting that Pakistan seems to be the only country that prefers Romney!


----------



## Rps

Groove, what tends to happen with polls is that people who are committed will state one way or the other, but they are really few and far between. What I see happening with this election is the "Dewey" principle, the pollsters may be asking the wrong questions of the wrong people. Don't be surprised if Romney floods the following regions: South East, Texas, Mid-West, North East. It may not be as close as some are thinking .... personally, I do not like Republican policies, like our Conservatives under Harper, they don't think policy all the way through .... that said, the Democrats never seem to go far enough when the get the chance, such as the up-date of the banking rules in the U.S., not enough was done to make me warm and fuzzy I'll tell you. But as a wise man sez: we shall see.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> If only


If only, indeed!

If the U.S. were my biggest competition, or my enemy, I would want Obama in power as well.


----------



## groovetube

Given that here in Canada, we stand to benefit greatly from a resurgent American economy, the preceding comment is, utterly hilarious.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Groove, what tends to happen with polls is that people who are committed will state one way or the other, but they are really few and far between. What I see happening with this election is the "Dewey" principle, the pollsters may be asking the wrong questions of the wrong people. Don't be surprised if Romney floods the following regions: South East, Texas, Mid-West, North East. It may not be as close as some are thinking .... personally, I do not like Republican policies, like our Conservatives under Harper, they don't think policy all the way through .... that said, the Democrats never seem to go far enough when the get the chance, such as the up-date of the banking rules in the U.S., not enough was done to make me warm and fuzzy I'll tell you. But as a wise man sez: we shall see.


It's a bit of a nail biter.

I can only recall, when we though Gore would win, and Bush slid up in for the win. Hanging chads and all.

But look at the insane mess they left. Worst disaster in American history. If Americans want to vote that back in, well, glad I don't live there.

Wait, we have Harper...


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## Macfury

Since Obama used the term himself--in rather embarrassing fashion to himself--I don't know why the joke is supposed to be on Romney. Obama should have known that aircraft carriers don't have the same naval presence as more ships.


----------



## groovetube

That's true they don't. The aircraft carriers can launch devastating air strike missions anywhere in the world, given air strikes are what the US uses the most. 

Anyone catch Anderson Cooper completely destroying that Virginian repub senator who was mouthing off about less ships, only to be faced with facts about there being more ships being currently built now than under Bush? And that it was under Bush that the number of ships went down?

The stumbling response was priceless.


----------



## eMacMan

Caught the alternative candidates debate last night with Larry King moderating.

If you want to see the Constitution restored and an end to American interventionism, you need to be looking to one of these guys rather than Bush III or Bush IV.

Overall I would be comfortable voting for two of them and not unhappy if one of the other two were elected.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Caught the alternative candidates debate last night with Larry King moderating.
> 
> If you want to see the Constitution restored and an end to American interventionism, you need to be looking to one of these guys rather than Bush III or Bush IV.
> 
> Overall I would be comfortable voting for two of them and not unhappy if one of the other two were elected.


Gary Johnson would be my choice. With Obama the candidate with positions furthest from his, I would endorse Romney.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Obama should have known that aircraft carriers don't have the same naval presence as more ships.


It's obvious that he does know this. The jab was at Romney's false equivalency; suggesting more ships=more capability. The fact that the US has fewer ships now than in 1916 does not mean it has less capability because the ships now are different than the ships of 1916.

Furthermore, Obama went on to say that he discusses the capability needs of the military with the Joint Chiefs, and the current priorities for ship building are based on those discussions, not on some stupid arbitrary number of ships somebody thinks they should have


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Furthermore, Obama went on to say that he discusses the capability needs of the military with the Joint Chiefs, and the current priorities for ship building are based on those discussions, not on some stupid arbitrary number of ships somebody thinks they should have


I'm sure he does, between rounds of golf. However, an alternative assessment of ship needs is not necessarily either arbitrary or wrong.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> However, an alternative assessment of ship needs is not necessarily either arbitrary or wrong.


it is arbitrary when the entire argument put forth by Romney is that the US military is somehow ill prepared. in 1916 military superiority WAS Naval superiority. In 2012 military superiority = Air superiority. 

Comparing #'s from 1916 to 2012 is nothing if not "arbitrary".

Does Romney think the US Navy is somehow threatened? By whom?


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> It's obvious that he does know this. The jab was at Romney's false equivalency; suggesting more ships=more capability. The fact that the US has fewer ships now than in 1916 does not mean it has less capability because the ships now are different than the ships of 1916.
> 
> Furthermore, Obama went on to say that he discusses the capability needs of the military with the Joint Chiefs, and the current priorities for ship building are based on those discussions, not on some stupid arbitrary number of ships somebody thinks they should have


I'm guessing that sting, stung rather badly.

Here's the clip of Anderson mopping the floor with the liar in Virginia.
Truth about naval spending under Obama – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Oh, we're actually increasing the number of ships and building more? Wow.

Spin spin spin spin.... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Size of the Navy thrust to forefront of campaign - Nation - The Boston Globe



> According to its 30-year shipbuilding plan, released in March, the Navy is set to grow to about 300 ships by 2019 and average about 298 ships each year through 2042. That assumes the defense budget remains at its current rate of growth* and the second round of cuts passed by Congress and set to go into effect next year is overturned.*


----------



## i-rui

^^i don't think those cuts have anything to do with Obama. They're the cuts triggered by the bipartisan Supercommittee.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> it is arbitrary when the entire argument put forth by Romney is that the US military is somehow ill prepared. in 1916 military superiority WAS Naval superiority. In 2012 military superiority = Air superiority.
> 
> Comparing #'s from 1916 to 2012 is nothing if not "arbitrary".
> 
> Does Romney think the US Navy is somehow threatened? By whom?


When you say "navy" in the US, you are saying "Virginia", as in their naval ports and ship building facilities. Romney must win Virginia, so he supports the navy. He already has a lock on Wyoming, the state with the most horses per capita, and Alabama, the state that makes bayonets, so he need VA for a victory.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> ^^i don't think those cuts have anything to do with Obama. They're the cuts triggered by the bipartisan Supercommittee.


Certainly. However, Obama favours the military cuts while the Republicans do not.

I'm neutral on the issue of whether more ships are needed or not. However, attempting to heap ridicule on one side or the other over some issue that most people haven't given 8 seconds of thought doesn't seem to be very productive.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Certainly. However, Obama favours the military cuts while the Republicans do not.
> 
> I'm neutral on the issue of whether more ships are needed or not. However, attempting to heap ridicule on one side or the other over some issue that most people haven't given 8 seconds of thought doesn't seem to be very productive.


If either party has the slightest hope of balancing the budget a 50% cut to military spending is essential. Not as Draconian as it sounds. It would merely return Military spending to 2002 levels. But it would mean getting out of Afghanistan, Libya and forgetting the pending invasions of Syria, Iran and Pakistan. Would also mean getting the mercenaries out of Iraq. All of which are excellent ideas.

They would also have to stop the Great Bankster Heists. Forgetting interest payments, I believe the Banksters are on target to steal another half trillion from American Taxpayers this year.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> If either party has the slightest hope of balancing the budget a 50% cut to military spending is essential. Not as Draconian as it sounds. It would merely return Military spending to 2002 levels. But it would mean getting out of Afghanistan, Libya and forgetting the pending invasions of Syria, Iran and Pakistan. Would also mean getting the mercenaries out of Iraq. All of which are excellent ideas.


I would be for an end to endlessly subsidizing the defense of the EC.


----------



## Rps

One really has to ask does the U.S. really need to spend more money on defense? I mean really, they've scrapped stuff that almost any country would love to have as a first defense product..... so really, do they really need more. I think it was Ike ( and correct me if I'm wrong Dr. G ) that said his greatest fear was the industrial-military alliance....... I think he's right.


----------



## groovetube

Bu bu but Romney wants to spend trillions more.

So much for dealing with the deficit!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> One really has to ask does the U.S. really need to spend more money on defense? I mean really, they've scrapped stuff that almost any country would love to have as a first defense product..... so really, do they really need more. I think it was Ike ( and correct me if I'm wrong Dr. G ) that said his greatest fear was the industrial-military alliance....... I think he's right.


However, in this case it's a question of maintaining current spending levels or cutting them--not increasing them


----------



## groovetube

And we all know how a republican administration loves to spend spend spend!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> However, in this case it's a question of maintaining current spending levels or cutting them--not increasing them


Get real, he will be increasing the spending ... in the old days of my economics classes we were taught that the guns and butter economic theory to explain capitalism and communism, I guess I know where the U.S. lies on that scale..............


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> One really has to ask does the U.S. really need to spend more money on defense? I mean really, they've scrapped stuff that almost any country would love to have as a first defense product..... so really, do they really need more. I think it was Ike ( and correct me if I'm wrong Dr. G ) that said his greatest fear was the industrial-military alliance....... I think he's right.


Yes, Eisenhower warned of the increasing power of the military-industrial complex upon leaving office.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> However, attempting to heap ridicule on one side or the other over some issue that most people haven't given 8 seconds of thought doesn't seem to be very productive.


The ridicule was well deserved in that suggesting that the number of ships the U.S. had in 1916 is at all relevant to this discussion bespeaks a level of ignorance that is just appalling.

Romney walked into that one with his chin out, and Obama decked him.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> The ridicule was well deserved in that suggesting that the number of ships the U.S. had in 1916 is at all relevant to this discussion bespeaks a level of ignorance that is just appalling.
> 
> Romney walked into that one with his chin out, and Obama decked him.


Not a fair fight, bryanc. Pres. Obama is the commander-in-chief, with full access to all of the info about the US Navy. Romney has his race horse and his luxuary yacht at his command. Thus, not a fair fight. They should have discussed tax shelters and Romney would have won hands down.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> They should have discussed tax shelters and Romney would have won hands down.


True dat. Unless his Romnesia was acting up and he started thinking he was a progressive again.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> True dat. Unless his Romnesia was acting up and he started thinking he was a progressive again.


Well, even Republicans are not sure of him ...................... but luckily, he is the only Republican on the ticket.

GOP LEADERS ENDORSE MITT ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT - SHARE THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

careful, there are those here that actually take him at his word!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> careful, there are those here that actually take him at his word!


No worry. If someone does not like his words, they just need to wait a bit until he changes them. This is a great way to please everyone and get elected.


----------



## bryanc

*Little Suzie Newsykins has some good points about the presidential campaign*

Rather trite, but sadly true.


----------



## groovetube

'Mother Mary Was Essentially Raped,' Mourdock Says While Digging Self Into Deeper Hole | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

You know, when the Onion doesn't really even need to make things up about you to make these sorts of headlines, you know the conservative religious right is insane.


----------



## MacGuiver

Battle of the political links! I love it!

OBAMA'S CHANGES! (Official Music Video) - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

oh man, I got about half way in, and I've seen far better spoofs of Obama. That was really lame.


----------



## groovetube

Colin Powell endorses Obama!

Let the smears on Colin run forth.


----------



## groovetube

Voting machines tied to the Romneys could decide the election in Ohio

This news bit is starting to show up in a lot of places.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Colin Powell endorses Obama!
> 
> Let the smears on Colin run forth.


"I voted for him in 2008 and I plan to stick with him in 2012." So said Colin Powell. Well, we know who is bucking to be the new Sect. of State once Hillary Clinton steps down. Now, when Donald Trump endorses Pres. Obama then THAT will be big news.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> "I voted for him in 2008 and I plan to stick with him in 2012." So said Colin Powell. Well, we know who is bucking to be the new Sect. of State once Hillary Clinton steps down. Now, when Donald Trump endorses Pres. Obama then THAT will be big news.


For me, I vote people out not in ... so has Obama ( and we all understand the circumstances he inherited and that there is no quick fix here ) deserved to be voted out???? I don't think so, as the country has shown some slooooow but steady improvement. Isn't this a good thing rather than quick swings?


----------



## groovetube

A number of economic indicators are showing good signs of turning around. Why return to the same policies that caused the mess in the first place?

After the biggest mess in history since the great depression, this shows what Obama is doing is actually working. Can it be better? Sure. But Romney, ain't it. At all.

Libertarians will destroy the economy once again.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "I voted for him in 2008 and I plan to stick with him in 2012." So said Colin Powell. Well, we know who is bucking to be the new Sect. of State once Hillary Clinton steps down. Now, when Donald Trump endorses Pres. Obama then THAT will be big news.


Seriously, is a Colin Powell endorsement considered news?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> For me, I vote people out not in ... so has Obama ( and we all understand the circumstances he inherited and that there is no quick fix here ) deserved to be voted out???? I don't think so, as the country has shown some slooooow but steady improvement. Isn't this a good thing rather than quick swings?


I believe that the underlying strength of the U.S. economy can still shake off any economic malfeasance inflicted on it by the president. I have no doub that the president's policies are a huge drag on the economy.t


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> For me, I vote people out not in ... so has Obama ( and we all understand the circumstances he inherited and that there is no quick fix here ) deserved to be voted out???? I don't think so, as the country has shown some slooooow but steady improvement. Isn't this a good thing rather than quick swings?


Interesting, Rp. I personally vote people into an office, which is why I voted for him in 2008 and shall again vote for him in 2012.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Seriously, is a Colin Powell endorsement considered news?


Hey, don't shoot the messanger.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe that the underlying strength of the U.S. economy can still shake off any economic malfeasance inflicted on it by the president. I have no doub that the president's policies are a huge drag on the economy.t


See, we are again in agreement. The policies of Pres. Obama have tapped into the "underlying strengths of the U.S. ecomony" and have now truly started to "shake off any economic malfeasance" that was "inflicted" on it by Pres. Bush. Yes, the legacy of the Bush policies were a "huge drag on the economy", but under the guidance of Pres. Obama, things are starting to bet better.

Amazing how we have come to agree on so many things these days.

Still, have you heard anything from Ron Paul recently? It is as if he has quietly gone to the sidelines.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting, but let's hope for an Obama-Biden administration for the next four years. We shall see.

A Romney-Biden White House? It's possible - World - CBC News

"With the U.S. election as tight as it is, there's a theoretical, yet unlikely, scenario, in which the results could produce a President Mitt Romney and Vice-President Joe Biden administration.

While it may seem absurd, it is possible based on the U.S. electoral college system and the constitution which requires a candidate to win the majority of electoral votes — in this case 270 — to become president.

But if neither candidate reaches that majority of electoral college votes, the 12th Amendment says that the state delegations of the U.S. House of Representatives decide among the candidates who becomes president. The Republicans, who have and are expected to retain a majority in the House, would choose Romney as president.

The Senate is then given the task to pick the vice-president. If after the election it is still controlled by the Democrats, Biden would become vice-president. (In fact, if the Senate is split, Biden, as vice-president and head of the Senate, would cast the deciding vote.) And there you would have a Romney-Biden administration.

But how would that come into play?"


----------



## groovetube

Washington state poised to legalize marijuana, with implications for B.C. - The Globe and Mail

Wow. So, hello balancing state budgets! Why let organized crime take all the profits, while tax payers are fleeced for the insane amounts of money to chase, jail, and deal with the organized crime problems.

Organized crime isn't going to like it in Canada, so I guess we'll see if the conservative government will side with the criminals and protect their billion dollar industry.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Washington state poised to legalize marijuana, with implications for B.C. - The Globe and Mail
> 
> Wow. So, hello balancing state budgets! Why let organized crime take all the profits, while tax payers are fleeced for the insane amounts of money to chase, jail, and deal with the organized crime problems.
> 
> Organized crime isn't going to like it in Canada, so I guess we'll see if the conservative government will side with the criminals and protect their billion dollar industry.


Now Now. That's sort of like saying: "The poppies now flourish in Afghanistan 'cause it improves the Shrub's bottom line." Even if the money trail would appear to make it so, it is something we mustn't say.


----------



## Dr.G.

Little-known candidates could harm Romney, Obama bids - CNN.com

An interesting possibility .............. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## groovetube

So, the answer is to vote back in the party that brought us the biggest economic mess in US history?

I'm afraid our libertarian friend here hasn't given one shred of evidence that this time it would be different. Other than to attempt to blame the big mess on someone who inherited it.

Not one shred.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> .


Good one, Macfury. Yes, I agree, Pres. Obama is head and shoulders above Romney and is the one hope to get America moving forward as he has done these past four years. Welcome to the bright side, mon ami. Excelsior.


----------



## MacDoc

Blistering editorial from the NYT snip



> *Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, has gotten this far with a guile that allows him to say whatever he thinks an audience wants to hear. *But he has tied himself to the ultraconservative forces that control the Republican Party and embraced their policies, including reckless budget cuts and 30-year-old, discredited trickle-down ideas. Voters may still be confused about Mr. Romney’s true identity, but they know the Republican Party, and a Romney administration would reflect its agenda. Mr. Romney’s choice of Representative Paul Ryan as his running mate says volumes about that.


as they endorse Obama....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/opinion/sunday/barack-obama-for-president.html?_r=1


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Blistering editorial from the NYT snip
> 
> 
> 
> as they endorse Obama....
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/opinion/sunday/barack-obama-for-president.html?_r=1


As they should have, MacDoc. "All the news that's fit to print" is their motto, and Pres. Obama has earned their endorsement. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Blistering editorial from the NYT snip
> 
> as they endorse Obama....


Is that supposed to be the surprise endorsement of the year? It makes me laugh that they think they're exposing Romney. People are supporting him precisely because of that list of "unspeakable thoughts."

The _NYT_ is nearly bankrupt. Perhaps they're hoping that the federal government will bail out newspapers next...


----------



## MacDoc

snort










too precious for words


----------



## jimbotelecom

Dr.G. said:


> As they should have, MacDoc. "All the news that's fit to print" is their motto, and Pres. Obama has earned their endorsement. Paix, mon ami.


Mind you this is the same paper that supported Bush II's Iraq attack.


----------



## groovetube

It's funny how people suddenly get rabid and bare their teeth when a newspaper decides to endorse the candidate that isn't their choice.


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Mind you this is the same paper that supported Bush II's Iraq attack.


Yes. They were wrong about that, weren't they?


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> Yes. They were wrong about that, weren't they?


Yes at least they had the guts to apologize for their error.


----------



## Dr.G.

What is 'presidential greatness'? - CNN.com

An interesting article in CNN.com re the concept of presidential greatness.


----------



## i-rui

jimbotelecom said:


> Yes at least they had the guts to apologize for their error.


And to be fair the Bush administration did completely bulls&%t the world about the whole WMD thing.


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Yes at least they had the guts to apologize for their error.


I doubt they will have the guts to apologize for this one.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I doubt they will have the guts to apologize for this one.


No need to apologize for this one, Macfury. Pres. Obama has earned the endorsement from the NY Times.


----------



## MacDoc

The NYT stands with the world in support of Obama- unlike the whack jobs on the right supporting Romney the chameleon.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Ohio Art Company launched a toy in the United States in time for the 1960 Christmas season with the name "Etch A Sketch". Ohio Art supported the toy with a televised advertising campaign. Etch a Sketch was manufactured in Bryan, Ohio until the company moved the manufacturing plant to Shenzhen, China in 2001 ................... after being bought out by Bain Capital ........................ but after Romney left the company. So, voters in Ohio can't blame him.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> The Ohio Art Company launched a toy in the United States in time for the 1960 Christmas season with the name "Etch A Sketch". Ohio Art supported the toy with a televised advertising campaign. Etch a Sketch was manufactured in Bryan, Ohio until the company moved the manufacturing plant to Shenzhen, China in 2001 ................... after being bought out by Bain Capital ........................ but after Romney left the company. So, voters in Ohio can't blame him.


Did he really leave or are his executive bonuses being funneled to the Caymen Islands????


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> The NYT stands with the world in support of Obama- unlike the whack jobs on the right supporting Romney the chameleon.


THE NYT is going bankrupt like the rest of the world--as will the U.S. unless Obama is vanquished.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Did he really leave or are his executive bonuses being funneled to the Caymen Islands????


That's a secret that only the accounts at his accounting firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe know .............. and they are sworn to silence. :greedy:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> THE NYT is going bankrupt like the rest of the world--as will the U.S. unless Obama is vanquished.


Right on, Brother Macfury. And once Romney is elected, he should begin is inaugural address with the phrase "To the victor belong the spoils". Then, four years from now, people will look back on the days of Pres. Obama's term in office as "the good old days", when America was moving forward once again. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. And once Romney is elected, he should begin is inaugural address with the phrase "To the victor belong the spoils". Then, four years from now, people will look back on the days of Pres. Obama's term in office as "the good old days", when America was moving forward once again. We shall see.


Obama, at least, can already lay claim to have significantly enhanced the failed reputations of both Bush II and Jimmy Carter!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> THE NYT is going bankrupt like the rest of the world


So, if the whole world went bankrupt, what would that mean? One of the truly crucial concepts that the people of the developed world need to understand is that money is not real. We create money as a useful fiction to facilitate trade; if the economic system is causing suffering and environmental destruction, we must change the economic system. Unfortunately many, especially in the US, have fallen for the idea that the economy is real, and that we must often do obviously and egregiously stupid things because that's what the economy demands.

If something stupid is profitable, it's because the economy is broken, not because the stupid thing is really a good idea.

Until the people of the affluent western democracies recognize that it is in our power to modify the economy such that it serves the interests of society rather than the interests of a unbelievably wealthy few, conditions on earth will continue to deteriorate for all its inhabitants.

Thought du jour: If you owe the bank $100,000, they own you. But if you owe the bank $100,000,000,000, you own them.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Thought du jour: If you owe the bank $100,000, they own you. But if you owe the bank $100,000,000,000, you own them.


Well, bryanc, then you would be "too big to fail". XX):greedy:


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> So, if the whole world went bankrupt, what would that mean?


A huge flow of wealth to the already wealthy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A huge flow of wealth to the already wealthy.


True ................ which is why many are hoping that Romney wins ................... in that it shall reinforce the motto "the rich keep getting richer". :greedy:XX):greedy: We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

ah. a glimmer of truth shines through.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ah. a glimmer of truth shines through.


Well, there is a great deal of "big money" backing Romney, and they do NOT want to see nothing come of their "investment". As well, the Tea Party and the religious right will want their agendas attended to as well.


----------



## groovetube

And huge spending on convincing that although republican governments spent themselves silly only to require a different government to try and dig back out, this time they'll be different.

Whisper sweet libertarian nothing into their ears and they'll buy it. And then spend themselves back into the hole again. Just keep repeating that being saddled with spending bills and the biggest economic mess since the great depression is actually Obama's fault.

Perhaps it'll be more true.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> And huge spending on convincing that although republican governments spent themselves silly only to require a different government to try and dig back out, this time they'll be different.
> 
> Whisper sweet libertarian nothing into their ears and they'll buy it. And then spend themselves back into the hole again. Just keep repeating that being saddled with spending bills and the biggest economic mess since the great depression is actually Obama's fault.
> 
> Perhaps it'll be more true.


We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> And huge spending on convincing that although republican governments spent themselves silly only to require a different government to try and dig back out, this time they'll be different.
> 
> Whisper sweet libertarian nothing into their ears and they'll buy it. And then spend themselves back into the hole again. Just keep repeating that being saddled with spending bills and the biggest economic mess since the great depression is actually Obama's fault.
> 
> Perhaps it'll be more true.


President Clinton Explains Mitt Romney's $5 Trillion Tax Cut — Barack Obama


----------



## CubaMark

*Joss Whedon*, Liberal Hollywood type, creator of Firefly, _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, director of _The Avengers_... has just endorsed *Romney* for President!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TiXUF9xbTo


----------



## i-rui

^^ lol

fantastic.


----------



## Macfury

Whedon is funny... but he's no economist. Stick to _Buffy_ and the_ Avengers_!


----------



## Dr.G.

Will new voter ID laws swing the U.S. election? - World - CBC News

Well, the hanging chads worked for Bush in Florida back in 2000, so maybe Romney will sweep to victory by non-votes as well. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Will new voter ID laws swing the U.S. election? - World - CBC News
> 
> Well, the hanging chads worked for Bush in Florida back in 2000, so maybe Romney will sweep to victory by non-votes as well. We shall see.


This sort of paternalism is offensive to me. Just who is supposed to be incapable of providing voter ID?


----------



## MacDoc

From a Republican Governor




> "“The president was great last night,” Christie continued. “He said he would get it done. At 2 a.m., I got a call from FEMA to answer a couple of final questions and then he signed the declaration this morning. So I have to give the president great credit. He’s been on the phone with me three times in the last 24 hours. He’s been very attentive, and anything that I’ve asked for, he’s gotten to me. So, I thank the president publicly for that. He’s done — as far as I’m concerned — a great job for New Jersey.”
> 
> - Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey (R)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This sort of paternalism is offensive to me. Just who is supposed to be incapable of providing voter ID?


Sorry, did not mean to be "offensive" to you. However, re your question, my mother for one. She was born in Montreal, and came to America when she was 12. Luckily, back then, she was able to get a US passport, a Social Security card and was able to vote when she turned 21. However, if you read the fine print, the birth certificate is required ................. so, my mother would not be able to vote in PA. However, since she died back in 1991, she would only be able to vote now in Chicago.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, did not mean to be "offensive" to you. However, re your question, my mother for one. She was born in Montreal, and came to America when she was 12. Luckily, back then, she was able to get a US passport, a Social Security card and was able to vote when she turned 21. However, if you read the fine print, the birth certificate is required ................. so, my mother would not be able to vote in PA. However, since she died back in 1991, she would only be able to vote now in Chicago.


It's rather astounding that people have a hard time figuring out why this could be a real problem for many people.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It's rather astounding that people have a hard time figuring out why this could be a real problem for many people.


Well, I did not want to be offensive to Macfury, so I just gave one example. However, I hear that there are thousands upon thousands of people, people who want to vote for either Pres. Obama or Mitt Romney, who will not be able to vote. CBC Sunday Morning had a piece on this case and they interviewed a few people who would not be able to vote .......... CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and even Fox News did pieces on this issue.

Still, I don't want to sound "paternalistic" ................... but it is a shame that these people won't be able to vote in certain states that suddenly have voter ID laws. Of course, it was far easier during the Jim Crow days in the south .............. if you had a certain skin color, then you did not vote or you were not allowed to vote ........... or else. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> It's rather astounding that people have a hard time figuring out why this could be a real problem for many people.


Not really a problem if you are rich, white and born in an American hospital. IOW a Romney voter. For others could be a real nightmare.




> ........ so, my mother would not be able to vote in PA. However, since she died back in 1991, she would only be able to vote now in Chicago.


Any idea who she's casting her ballot for?

BTW I believe she might be able to cast a second ballot in New Jersey.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Not really a problem if you are rich, white and born in an American hospital. IOW a Romney voter. For others could be a real nightmare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea who she's casting her ballot for?
> 
> BTW I believe she might be able to cast a second ballot in New Jersey.


Well, she once ran for office as a reform Democrat, who were left of the regular Democratic party. So, I would think that since she voted for a Democrat all her life, except once for John Lindsay for Mayor of NYC because of his stance against the war in Vietnam, I would say if she was still alive she would again be voting for Pres. Obama.


----------



## Rps

Just wondering your thoughts on whether there is any real difference between the parties on actual legislation passed....aren't both really neo-liberals?


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Just wondering your thoughts on whether there is any real difference between the parties on actual legislation passed....aren't both really neo-liberals?


Sure. But it's far more fun to pretend one is much better at spending.


----------



## Rps

groovetube said:


> Sure. But it's far more fun to pretend one is much better at spending.


I think the appropriate question would be which one is far better at disenfranchising?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I did not want to be offensive to Macfury, so I just gave one example. However, I hear that there are thousands upon thousands of people, people who want to vote for either Pres. Obama or Mitt Romney, who will not be able to vote. CBC Sunday Morning had a piece on this case and they interviewed a few people who would not be able to vote .......... CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and even Fox News did pieces on this issue.
> 
> Still, I don't want to sound "paternalistic" ................... but it is a shame that these people won't be able to vote in certain states that suddenly have voter ID laws. Of course, it was far easier during the Jim Crow days in the south .............. if you had a certain skin color, then you did not vote or you were not allowed to vote ........... or else.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Canada also requires voter ID, so I expect Americans should have little trouble in providing it as well:

Elections Canada Online | Voter Identification at the Polls


----------



## groovetube

BZZZZZ! Wrong.

Not the same.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Just wondering your thoughts on whether there is any real difference between the parties on actual legislation passed....aren't both really neo-liberals?


No, especially in this election where the Republican party has been pushed to the right by the Tea Party and the religious right. If Romney gets elected, he will have to swing that way ................... or else.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Canada also requires voter ID, so I expect Americans should have little trouble in providing it as well:
> 
> Elections Canada Online | Voter Identification at the Polls


Well, this time I will use my own example. I went to show my ID to vote here in Canada, which was a US Passport and my birth certificate. I was told that my birth certificate was not valid, since it was a photostat (in 1948, there was no xerox, so it was black with white letters) and had as my place of birth "Gotham Hospital" in NYC. They felt it was a fake since there was no Gotham Hospital. I said that there once was, and it was taken over by Mount Sinai Hospital. I had not gotten my Canadian Passport yet, and was still waiting for my Canadian citizenship card. I showed them my certificate that was given to me when I became a Canadian citizen, but they wanted to see the card with my picture.

So, count me as one who had great trouble in getting to vote here in Canada once I became a citizen.`

Sorry, I don't mean to break your bubble each time, and I am not trying to be paternalistic ................. just honest.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> it is a shame that these people won't be able to vote in certain states that suddenly have voter ID laws. Of course, it was far easier during the Jim Crow days in the south


Ol' Jimmy Crow is alive and well...


----------



## MacDoc

> *Bush’s FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly*
> 
> By Hayes Brown on Oct 30, 2012 at 1:04 pm
> 
> Former FEMA Director Michael Brown offered criticism of President Obama’s early responses to Hurricane Sandy yesterday,


Bush's FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly | ThinkProgress

the whacky right strikes again...


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Bush's FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly | ThinkProgress
> 
> the whacky right strikes again...


Read the original article. Brown was never the sharpest pencil, but what he says is nothing like that headline.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Ol' Jimmy Crow is alive and well...


Why would you relate voter registration to Jim Crow?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this time I will use my own example. I went to show my ID to vote here in Canada, which was a US Passport and my birth certificate. I was told that my birth certificate was not valid, since it was a photostat (in 1948, there was no xerox, so it was black with white letters) and had as my place of birth "Gotham Hospital" in NYC. They felt it was a fake since there was no Gotham Hospital. I said that there once was, and it was taken over by Mount Sinai Hospital. I had not gotten my Canadian Passport yet, and was still waiting for my Canadian citizenship card. I showed them my certificate that was given to me when I became a Canadian citizen, but they wanted to see the card with my picture.
> 
> So, count me as one who had great trouble in getting to vote here in Canada once I became a citizen.`
> 
> Sorry, I don't mean to break your bubble each time, and I am not trying to be paternalistic ................. just honest.


You've proved my point. I am saying that Americans in the U.S. should be able to do what is being asked of Canadians in Canada.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> From a Republican Governor


Chris Christie is grateful for the cash. He is a gracious man. However, he doesn't endorse Obama for a second term.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Why would you relate voter registration to Jim Crow?


Good Lord! Why would anybody with even a moderate amount of knowledge of the history of voting in the South not relate this to Jim Crow?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why would you relate voter registration to Jim Crow?


Well, much of the Jim Crow laws were overruled by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Voting was at the heart of the Jim Crow laws, with forced segregation at it's soul. I thought that was common knowledge. Read up on the history of African-American voter registration in the US south if you don't believe me.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Good Lord! Why would anybody with even a moderate amount of knowledge of the history of voting in the South not relate this to Jim Crow?


Play fair, now. Maybe he just did not know. Until I spent five years in Georgia I did not know the extent that the Jim Crow laws spread over aspects of southern society, even after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were passed into legislation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You've proved my point. I am saying that Americans in the U.S. should be able to do what is being asked of Canadians in Canada.


The problem is that I showed my birth certificate and they said there was no such hospital called "Gotham Hospital" in NYC. They did not know this as a fact, they just figured that I had made it up ............ even though I had a valid US Passport, my Canadian Landed Immigrant papers, and my Canadian Citizenship Certificate. I was just waiting on the laminated Canadian Citizenship Card.

So, you prove my point that even with the proper documents, someone in Canada or the US can be denied the right to vote.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Play fair, now. Maybe he just did not know. Until I spent five years in Georgia I did not know the extent that the Jim Crow laws spread over aspects of southern society, even after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were passed into legislation.


Up until about 1910, Democrats disenfranchised voters through the use of poll taxes and literacy tests. How does a voter ID requirement replicate this?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Up until about 1910, Democrats disenfranchised voters through the use of poll taxes and literacy tests. How does a voter ID requirement replicate this?


From what I know, Pres. Grover Cleveland, a Democrat, saw the concept and enactment of Reconstruction as a failed experiment. As president, he was reluctant to use federal power to enforce the 15th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. I am not sure how "up until about 1910, Democrats disenfranchised voters ...." Do you have a source for this contention? From 1869 until 1913, he was the only Democratic president. Or, are you placing this blame upon Pres. Andrew Johnson?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> From what I know, Pres. Grover Cleveland, a Democrat, saw the concept and enactment of Reconstruction as a failed experiment. As president, he was reluctant to use federal power to enforce the 15th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. I am not sure how "up until about 1910, Democrats disenfranchised voters ...." Do you have a source for this contention? From 1869 until 1913, he was the only Democratic president. Or, are you placing this blame upon Pres. Andrew Johnson?


The Jim Crow laws were applied at the state level. I am specifically referring to restrictive voting laws.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Jim Crow laws were applied at the state level. I am specifically referring to restrictive voting laws.


Southern Democrats, oftentimes called "Dixiecrats", did not follow the Democratic Party platform. Just read what the response was of these southern "democrats" of the speech and views of Hubert Humphrey. This is what I call courage in the face of adversity.

So, you may call them Democrats .............. but you can also put a shoe in the oven but when it comes out you can't call it a bagel.

Hubert Humphrey 1948 Civil Rights Speech - YouTube

Hubert H Humphrey: The Art of the Possible - YouTube


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> ....
> So, you may call them Democrats .............. but you can also put a shoe in the oven but when it comes out you can't call it a bagel.


Still you can put a bagel in the oven have it come out tasting like an old shoe.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Chris Christie is grateful for the cash. He is a gracious man. However, he doesn't endorse Obama for a second term.


Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Luckily for Romney that Gov. Christie does not shift his support to Pres. Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Interesting, especially the notion of "swayable electors".


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Still you can put a bagel in the oven have it come out tasting like an old shoe.


True ........... but well made New York-style or Montreal-style bagels will never taste "like an old shoe".


----------



## bryanc

*XKCD looks at american politics*

I'm always impressed with XKCD's poster-sized infographics, but this is just... wow.


----------



## groovetube

Reading about Christie's suddenly becoming Obama's biggest fan reminds of the often repeated phrase: Always a libertarian, that is until disaster strikes.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc, don't post anything that large here again. Link it instead.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Reading about Christie's suddenly becoming Obama's biggest fan reminds of the often repeated phrase: Always a libertarian, that is until disaster strikes."

Yes, who needs a "nanny state" .................... until one realizes that we are all in this together and we need to help each other.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, who needs a "nanny state" .................... until one realizes that we are all in this together and we need to help each other.


Assistance for extraordinary disasters has always been within the purview of the U.S. government. However, we are certainly not "all in this together" to help people to overcome those disaster which they bring upon their own lives. This is something on which individuals, such as yourself, may wish to bankrupt themselves personally.


----------



## groovetube

Yes, all those regular Americans should never have caused this great economic crash that put them out of work! They voted for that republican admin that put all those policies in place, or let ones that should have been dealt with in the 8 years they were power. So how dare they want help to keep a roof over their heads those ingrates.

And those seniors wanting cheaper prescription drugs? pffft.


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> Assistance for extraordinary disasters has always been within the purview of the U.S. government. However, we are certainly not "all in this together" to help people to overcome those disaster which they bring upon their own lives. This is something on which individuals, such as yourself, may wish to bankrupt themselves personally.


Come on MacFury, wealth redistribution is only fair. Even a child can grasp the concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHNBr3PZQaE&feature=list_other&playnext=1&list=SP85933DBA7E52B5B6
Cheers
MacGuiver


----------



## groovetube

It's also important to attach big scary names like, 'wealth distribution', or (hissssssss.....) socialism!!!!

Even though what the US has is so far from actual socialism it's almost funny.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Assistance for extraordinary disasters has always been within the purview of the U.S. government. However, we are certainly not "all in this together" to help people to overcome those disaster which they bring upon their own lives. This is something on which individuals, such as yourself, may wish to bankrupt themselves personally.


Right on, Brother Macfury. Let those in New York City, New Jersey, et al, suffer for their stupidity to live in those areas that are prone to storms. Survival of the fittest and the smartest I say. Luckily, none of us have needed any help from the federal government during a time of natural disasters .......................... wait, I stand corrected. This area of Newfoundland did get some help from the armed forces when Hurricane Igor hit a few years ago, stranding communities as their roads and bridges were washed away. So, we cannot cast the first stone here in NL, in that we have accepted aid from the federal, provincial and municipal governments. The shame is ours and ours alone to assume. It is a burden we shall not wish upon others. We are humble in our request for forgiveness in helping to "bankrupt" the federal coffers.

One question, mon ami. When you said "However, we are certainly not "all in this together" to help people to overcome those disaster which they bring upon their own lives." -- how did the people of the northeastern part of North America "bring this upon themselves"??? Luckily, your part of North America is immune from natural disasters.

Special Report: Snow in Toronto - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. Let those in New York City, New Jersey, et al, suffer for their stupidity to live in those areas that are prone to storms. Survival of the fittest and the smartest I say. Luckily, none of us have needed any help from the federal government during a time of natural disasters .......................... wait, I stand corrected. This area of Newfoundland did get some help from the armed forces when Hurricane Igor hit a few years ago, stranding communities as their roads and bridges were washed away. So, we cannot cast the first stone here in NL, in that we have accepted aid from the federal, provincial and municipal governments. The shame is ours and ours alone to assume. It is a burden we shall not wish upon others. We are humble in our request for forgiveness in helping to "bankrupt" the federal coffers.
> 
> One question, mon ami. When you said "However, we are certainly not "all in this together" to help people to overcome those disaster which they bring upon their own lives." -- how did the people of the northeastern part of North America "bring this upon themselves"??? Luckily, your part of North America is immune from natural disasters.
> 
> Special Report: Snow in Toronto - YouTube


Dr. G, have another cup of coffee and read my post again. The storm is an extraordinary disaster. However saying "we are all int his together" does not mean we are all financially responsible for every challenge a person is likely to face.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G, have another cup of coffee and read my post again. The storm is an extraordinary disaster. However saying "we are all int his together" does not mean we are all financially responsible for every challenge a person is likely to face.


Well, if I was still living in the US, and in the State of Georgia, I would not mind my federal tax dollars going to help the folks in the northeastern US. Same as when the federal government helped out to assist Ontario and Quebec during the great ice storm. Sorry, mon ami, but in a civilized society, we ARE all in this together. What hurts you, hurts me, and vice versa. You may not care about me, and that is your right. However, I DO care about you and your neighbors, regardless of their politics. They are citizens of Canada, and that is enough for me to lend a hand, even if it means some of my tax dollars go to helping them during a crisis.

For the record, I also think that any child going to school hungry anywhere in Canada is a crisis, especially if they go to school hungry because their parents cannot afford food. If my son went to school without eating breakfast, or if I did not send him with a good lunch, then that is my problem. However, if I can't afford to send him with any food, then that is our problem. When people are in genuine need, either from a natural disaster, or poverty, then it's everyone's problem. Sorry, my friend, but this is what I believe in and nothing you can say will sway my views on this matter. Paix.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, if I was still living in the US, and in the State of Georgia, I would not mind my federal tax dollars going to help the folks in the northeastern US. Same as when the federal government helped out to assist Ontario and Quebec during the great ice storm. Sorry, mon ami, but in a civilized society, we ARE all in this together. What hurts you, hurts me, and vice versa. You may not care about me, and that is your right. However, I DO care about you and your neighbors, regardless of their politics. They are citizens of Canada, and that is enough for me to lend a hand, even if it means some of my tax dollars go to helping them during a crisis.
> 
> For the record, I also think that any child going to school hungry anywhere in Canada is a crisis, especially if they go to school hungry because their parents cannot afford food. If my son went to school without eating breakfast, or if I did not send him with a good lunch, then that is my problem. However, if I can't afford to send him with any food, then that is our problem. When people are in genuine need, either from a natural disaster, or poverty, then it's everyone's problem. Sorry, my friend, but this is what I believe in and nothing you can say will sway my views on this matter. Paix.


Amen G. I can't understand anyone who doesn't feel that sense of community responsibility. Especially the corporations who benefit from these very communities. Somehow, there are those who wish everyone to think we as citizens of this country are lucky to await the fat drippings.

Sad souls.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> For the record, I also think that any child going to school hungry anywhere in Canada is a crisis, especially if they go to school hungry because their parents cannot afford food.


What if their parents can afford cigarettes, a cell phone, or cable TV, but cannot afford food for their children?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> What if their parents can afford cigarettes, a cell phone, or cable TV, but cannot afford food for their children?


That would be ample evidence for me to conclude that they are terrible parents. However, the fact that a child has terrible parents is not justification to perpetuate that cycle of failure by refusing to help the child get a decent education and, hopefully, do a better job of being an adult when it's there turn.

There's probably not much we can do about the behaviour and atrocious decision making exhibited by some people, but we can try to mitigate the damage it does to society, and the best way of doing that is by ensuring every child gets a good education and health care.


----------



## Rps

bryanc said:


> that would be ample evidence for me to conclude that they are terrible parents. However, the fact that a child has terrible parents is not justification to perpetuate that cycle of failure by refusing to help the child get a decent education and, hopefully, do a better job of being an adult when it's there turn.
> 
> There's probably not much we can do about the behaviour and atrocious decision making exhibited by some people, but we can try to mitigate the damage it does to society, and the best way of doing that is by ensuring every child gets a good education and health care.


+1


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> What if their parents can afford cigarettes, a cell phone, or cable TV, but cannot afford food for their children?


I don't know how many times I have heard this when discussing social issues and the vast gap in the distribution of wealth..... it is a dinosaur mentality that hangs on to this ... you might as well say the poor and disadvantaged are that way because G_d is punishing them.

If a society is to flourish, then it must be inclusive and actually care about all the components of that society ... that doesn't mean we write cheques to all that ask, it means we believe in being fair .... and that is helping people achieve their goals and aspirations, which might include the occasional kick in the rear, not to kick them while their down.

What we are becoming, I fear, is a republic that thinks it's a democracy, that is really controlled and financed by an aristocracy on its way to a corporate monarchy. When that happens, the collective "we" are in trouble.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> What we are becoming, I fear, is a republic that thinks it's a democracy, that is really controlled and financed by an aristocracy on its way to a corporate monarchy. When that happens, the collective "we" are in trouble.


The interesting psychological aspect of this is that so many of the "99%" who will loose in this scenario seem to believe that they're destined to be part of the "1%" who will win; they're just temporarily-down-on-their-luck-billionaires. This mind-set allows them to be okay with the fact that our society is being distorted into a labor-camp/resource-extraction-machine that generates astronomical wealth for a few plutocrats, because so many either honestly or at least subconsciously see themselves as members of that plutocracy.

I think this comes from watching so much TV that many people project themselves into these "lifestyles of the rich and famous" and internalize the fantasy of becoming spectacularly wealthy to the extent that they start to think it's bound to come true.

This leads many to feel that, rather than try to make life a little better for everyone, we should be okay with it be a lot better for a few and a little worse for most.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I don't know how many times I have heard this when discussing social issues and the vast gap in the distribution of wealth......


I have witnessed it more times than I care to mention. So essentially, there is no means test 
sufficient to create a list of those who need free food or money for food? 

In Michigan, Food Stamps were at one point not available to those who own a _second_ car with a book value of greater than $25,000. Cause they won't feed their kids if that second car needs gas, you know.

Reminds me of this old _National Lampoon_ cover:


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> So essentially, there is no means test
> sufficient to create a list of those who need free food or money for food?


In principle, I don't mind the idea of a means test for social safety nets. But in practise, it is so difficult to implement ones that are fair, and police them without adding undue hardship to legitimate cases, that you usually wind up spending more on trying to prevent people from abusing the system than you'd save if you just let the few sociopaths go ahead and abuse the system.

It's probably easier to prevent people from becoming the types of vandals that abuse the social safety nets than it is to prevent the abuse.

So, pragmatically, I'd suggest we implement the easy and obvious means tests that are easy to police (minimum income, savings etc.), and stop worrying about it.


----------



## Rps

bryanc, interesting point of view. Wasn't it Gramsci who dwelled on hegemony? But I can see where you are coming from with this. I think the proof is in the recent rage on just about everything south of the border. With chants of "we want our country back" the poor sods can't see that the country they believe they want isn't what it was ( nor is it what they think it is ) ..... when, as you point out, they are just fodder in some Marxist theoretical experiment. Look at what their Supreme Court has done, in defining cash contributions as freedom of speech, they've created the opening for wealth to dictate outcome....literally buy candidates or slander ones that big money does not like .... all they have to not do is use words like: vote, endorse, elect and they can pretty much redefine character assassination. So, where does this leave the 99% .... they have become what HR specialists must surely laughingly call "human capital" to be invested as the corporate monarchies see fit.... and with the aftermath of Sandy, they don't even have the luxury of bread and circuses.......


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> In principle, I don't mind the idea of a means test for social safety nets. But in practise, it is so difficult to implement ones that are fair, and police them without adding undue hardship to legitimate cases, that you usually wind up spending more on trying to prevent people from abusing the system than you'd save if you just let the few sociopaths go ahead and abuse the system.
> 
> It's probably easier to prevent people from becoming the types of vandals that abuse the social safety nets than it is to prevent the abuse.
> 
> So, pragmatically, I'd suggest we implement the easy and obvious means tests that are easy to police (minimum income, savings etc.), and stop worrying about it.


The U.S. just released figures indicating that combined poverty programs from all levels of government are spending US$60,000 per family considered to be in poverty each year. The official poverty line was an annual income of $23,021 for a family of four. 

Assuming that the U.S. wanted to bring all families out of poverty—say to $25,000—it could do so with a guaranteed minimum income program. Assuming that half of the families living below the poverty line get halfway to the poverty mark, and the rest earn nothing, you could bring ALL families out of poverty. for about $18,000 to $19,000 per family. With a tax code designed to encourage further improvement to income, the problem could be eradicated in a year.

I would support guaranteed minimum income in a heartbeat, provided that the poverty line could be clearly delineated and not merely calculated on a Bell curve to ramp up entitlements.


----------



## Rps

bryanc;1228898
So said:


> I agree, but remember the old saying there but for the grace of...... there are many who have lost their jobs, pensions and investment income that have no way of getting it back. Take me for example. When I was asked to retire, the economic perfect storm severely impacted my pension and investments. Now, at 61, I'm faced with the prospect of shoring up that financial loss by trying to get a job ..... and good luck with that. Additionally, my ex-employer is thinking of ways to establish cost certainty...such as lump sum buyouts for pensions......which is very scary, as the buyout is no where near what the summative payments will be, and statistically if I as the husband die first, where does that leave me wife..... someone with a home, which she may not be able to sell, and may require social assistance...... so we must be careful of how we administer such tests.... but I also agree that we shouldn't spend $1.50 to protect a $1.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> bryanc, interesting point of view. Wasn't it Gramsci who dwelled on hegemony? But I can see where you are coming from with this. I think the proof is in the recent rage on just about everything south of the border. With chants of "we want our country back" the poor sods can't see that the country they believe they want isn't what it was ( nor is it what they think it is ) ..... when, as you point out, they are just fodder in some Marxist theoretical experiment. Look at what their Supreme Court has done, in defining cash contributions as freedom of speech, they've created the opening for wealth to dictate outcome....literally buy candidates or slander ones that big money does not like .... all they have to not do is use words like: vote, endorse, elect and they can pretty much redefine character assassination. So, where does this leave the 99% .... they have become what HR specialists must surely laughingly call "human capital" to be invested as the corporate monarchies see fit.... and with the aftermath of Sandy, they don't even have the luxury of bread and circuses.......



I disagree with you entirely. Free speech is free speech, whether the people speaking are individual citizens or belong to a corporation. Freedom carries risks, but needn't be compromised just to quell your fears.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I disagree with you entirely. Free speech is free speech, whether the people speaking are individual citizens or belong to a corporation. Freedom carries risks, but needn't be compromised just to quell your fears.


I think before you comment you should read the ruling and the IRS section 501(c)4 and its requirements, you might have a different view on this.....


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Amen G. I can't understand anyone who doesn't feel that sense of community responsibility. Especially the corporations who benefit from these very communities. Somehow, there are those who wish everyone to think we as citizens of this country are lucky to await the fat drippings.
> 
> Sad souls.


Well, this is what I believe in and always have ............. and always shall. Can't force others to think this way, but we live in a civil society.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What if their parents can afford cigarettes, a cell phone, or cable TV, but cannot afford food for their children?


Well, then I would provide school lunch and breakfast programs for these children. Sadly, this is the reality for some.

Still, you can't be saying that all children who come to school hungry have parents like this scenario.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> That would be ample evidence for me to conclude that they are terrible parents. However, the fact that a child has terrible parents is not justification to perpetuate that cycle of failure by refusing to help the child get a decent education and, hopefully, do a better job of being an adult when it's there turn.
> 
> There's probably not much we can do about the behaviour and atrocious decision making exhibited by some people, but we can try to mitigate the damage it does to society, and the best way of doing that is by ensuring every child gets a good education and health care.


Amen, bryanc. :clap::clap: I agree totally. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I don't know how many times I have heard this when discussing social issues and the vast gap in the distribution of wealth..... it is a dinosaur mentality that hangs on to this ... you might as well say the poor and disadvantaged are that way because G_d is punishing them.QUOTE]
> 
> Social Darwinism at it's finest moment, Rps. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think before you comment you should read the ruling and the IRS section 501(c)4 and its requirements, you might have a different view on this.....


I read the ruling and agree with it, particularly in light of the supplemental comments of the justices who asked specific questoins about the ramifications of such limits.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this is what I believe in and always have ............. and always shall. Can't force others to think this way, but we live in a civil society.


You can't force everyone to think this way... but you can push for laws that force them to contribute against their will.


----------



## groovetube

Thankfully this is a bunch of nonsense and the majority of people feel the same dr G. 

There'll always be those that will grumble about the minority that may abuse the system, and all we can do is try to minimize the abuses, there'll always be a few who'll repeat constantly that these helping hands are only about the lazy.

As I said before, it's sad that people like this are so miserable to believe so strongly in this nonsense.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You can't force everyone to think this way... but you can push for laws that force them to contribute against their will.


True. That is the price we pay for living in a democracy that has some form of social conscience. You should do what the members of the Reform party pledged and not take any sort of pension from the federal government, in your case the CPP ........ even though only two of them actually kept their promise. And be sure to tell any federal troops that come to help out in cleaning up the GTA to get the hell out of your neighborhood, you do NOT want to see federal tax dollars helping those in need. Either accept that you live in a civil society that, for better or worse, will spend some of your tax dollars helping others, or go live in a cave somewhere. You are free to make that choice. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Thankfully this is a bunch of nonsense and the majority of people feel the same dr G.
> 
> There'll always be those that will grumble about the minority that may abuse the system, and all we can do is try to minimize the abuses, there'll always be a few who'll repeat constantly that these helping hands are only about the lazy.
> 
> As I said before, it's sad that people like this are so miserable to believe so strongly in this nonsense.


Now, play nicely, gt. For all you know, Macfury gives to charities that feed the poor, provide shelter for the homeless and comfort those that are ill and are alone. He might even spend some time in food backs or homeless shelters, which is actually more meaningful than money. He might do this out of a sense that this is what he chooses to do, rather than being forced to watch his tax dollars spent on things he does not support.


----------



## Dr.G.

4 year old girl in need of wheelchair - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Case in point. When my wife and I were in Nova Scotia last week, we pledged and sent $250 to her fund. I was in the same situation with my daughter, especially when my insurance refused to cover the cost of a special wheel chair and a special hospital bed. Luckily, I could cover these fees on my own, when my insurance refused and the provincial government said I was making too much to get any help from social services in NL.

So, this child either has to do without, and take it from me, that is no easy task, or the community should kick in because it's the right thing to do. Either we look out for the weakest links in our community or we become less of a community and really less human.


----------



## eMacMan

A special Halloween message.
Ron Paul : What If Halloween.wmv - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> A special Halloween message.
> Ron Paul : What If Halloween.wmv - YouTube


Like his politics or not, he makes some valid points. I still feel he is one of the, if not THE most honest person in Congress today.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Now, play nicely, gt. For all you know, Macfury gives to charities that feed the poor, provide shelter for the homeless and comfort those that are ill and are alone. He might even spend some time in food backs or homeless shelters, which is actually more meaningful than money. He might do this out of a sense that this is what he chooses to do, rather than being forced to watch his tax dollars spent on things he does not support.


I call it as I see it. If someone who is supposed to be informed repeats lies, it is what it is.

I was playing nice. The accusations on their part, isn't.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Either accept that you live in a civil society that, for better or worse, will spend some of your tax dollars helping others, or go live in a cave somewhere. You are free to make that choice. Paix, mon ami.


I am also free to change the system from within, to make giving more voluntary.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I call it as I see it. If someone who is supposed to be informed repeats lies, it is what it is.
> 
> I was playing nice. The accusations on their part, isn't.


Well, I am sure that Macfury would want to protect your freedom of thought/speech/expression, as would I, so point taken. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I am also free to change the system from within, to make giving more voluntary.


True, and that is the way it should be, Macfury. However, for now, the majority feels that during times of natural disasters, and for those in real need, we are all part of a civil society and we shall help our neighbors as well as people we shall never know simply because they are in need. So, until you are able to change this current system, this is our arrangement. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, and that is the way it should be, Macfury. However, for now, the majority feels that during times of natural disasters, and for those in real need, we are all part of a civil society and we shall help our neighbors as well as people we shall never know simply because they are in need. So, until you are able to change this current system, this is our arrangement. Paix, mon ami.


Do you not read the posts? I said that government SHOULD be used to deal temporarily with large natural disasters. One of the few things it _might_ be able to do well, although often does not.


----------



## groovetube

Speaking of what government does well, and what private does better. There was an interesting take on Romney's assertion that 50% of the companies 'stimulated' in green energy.

Apparently there was a 92% success rate. 8$ failure.

Bain capital, you know the one headed up by who some think will be better at economics, had a 78% success rate. Now I realize that for those on the far right, this is a philosophical thing. This isn't supposed to be government's role. But the hilarity ensues when, the same people who trumpet this, as the reason for supporting Mitt Romney, the same Mitt Romney is going to simply take the same money (actually more of it...) and do the same things except simply invest it in what he and his government wants to.

We've seen 2 republican admins in a row destroy the deficits, why would this be any different? The last republican admin screwed it up so badly that this time around it'll take for more than 4 years to roll back the deficits. Though captain Romney will have you believe in unicorns that he can do it sooner while cutting taxes and spending trillions more... :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Do you not read the posts? I said that government SHOULD be used to deal temporarily with large natural disasters. One of the few things it _might_ be able to do well, although often does not.


Yes, I read the posts, but I extended the helping hand of government to the long-term plight that poverty brings upon people, especially children and the elderly. So, I think that this is where we differ. No need to snap at me, in that I have been trying to get folks not to snap at you. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> Do you not read the posts? I said that government SHOULD be used to deal temporarily with large natural disasters. One of the few things it _might_ be able to do well, although often does not.


That was evident early on to me and anyone else that actually read your posting but people continued to paint you as the guy that wants to leave disaster victims out to dry.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> That was evident early on to me and anyone else that actually read your posting but people continued to paint you as the guy that wants to leave disaster victims out to dry.


Exactly my point, as evidence below:



Dr.G. said:


> And be sure to tell any federal troops that come to help out in cleaning up the GTA to get the hell out of your neighborhood, you do NOT want to see federal tax dollars helping those in need.


----------



## Macfury

By the way rps, I was wrong about the level of political advertising I was seeing in New York state as opposed to the Detroit TV stations. Obama is spending next to nothing in New York because he takes their votes for granted, so the TV and radio campaign is minimal by comparison. A better comparison would be the radio ads I hear on WOWO radio in Fort Wayne, Indiana.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, I read the posts, but I extended the helping hand of government to the long-term plight that poverty brings upon people, especially children and the elderly. So, I think that this is where we differ. No need to snap at me, in that I have been trying to get folks not to snap at you. Paix, mon ami.


It is often difficult not to return the same snap. Your point also taken.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> By the way rps, I was wrong about the level of political advertising I was seeing in New York state as opposed to the Detroit TV stations. Obama is spending next to nothing in New York because he takes their votes for granted, so the TV and radio campaign is minimal by comparison. A better comparison would be the radio ads I hear on WOWO radio in Fort Wayne, Indiana.


Yes Macfury, but the true political ads are not the issue, it is the second tier PAC ads which do not actually use the words support, votes, endorse etc... this is were the money is and it is invisible to who is financing it. If you saw Detroit TV you would see blatantly false ads over Proposition 5 and 6 all financed by the Bridge Company, but no where do you see who is taking ownership. Of interest to you should be the recent challenge by Montana to the Supreme Courts ruling....check that out and then see if you disagree with me. Outside big money is covering the state and cherry picking who they want elected by slandering local politicians....it was so blatant that the State Election Board filed the law suit as it was freedom of speech but actually restricting it. In Canada, we are restricted to no more than $30,000 but see what is happening in Alberta....we caught that because our laws do not allowed for the invisible nature of tier 2 contributions......


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It is often difficult not to return the same snap. Your point also taken.


No, I believe in turning the other cheek. I don't want the thread to break down in bickering. I was looking at the broader picture of the chronic needs of some people as well as the sudden immediate needs of some. I feel that it is the responsibility of the various levels of government to help those in need in both situations, and there are some in this thread that disagree with this view. So, since we live in a civil society with the freedom of speech and thought, I choose to take the high ground and just keep posting without taking shots at other posters. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Yes Macfury, but the true political ads are not the issue, it is the second tier PAC ads which do not actually use the words support, votes, endorse etc... this is were the money is and it is invisible to who is financing it. If you saw Detroit TV you would see blatantly false ads over Proposition 5 and 6 all financed by the Bridge Company, but no where do you see who is taking ownership. Of interest to you should be the recent challenge by Montana to the Supreme Courts ruling....check that out and then see if you disagree with me. Outside big money is covering the state and cherry picking who they want elected by slandering local politicians....it was so blatant that the State Election Board filed the law suit as it was freedom of speech but actually restricting it. In Canada, we are restricted to no more than $30,000 but see what is happening in Alberta....we caught that because our laws do not allowed for the invisible nature of tier 2 contributions......


I would go so far as to say that if the corporation pays for a message, then the source of the message should be identified so that the group can be sued for libel if their message is false. Also, I would say that if a corporation supports a message, it should be signed off by dedicated members of its executive who would be held accountable for the message should it be shown to be false.

The most fascinating use of unidentified political messages is the support of third-party candidates by Democrats and Republicans wishing to undermine each other.


----------



## Rps

And Macfury, that is the issue, under the current laws you can do what ever you want and no one can find you............


----------



## MacDoc

Slimy hardly covers it

U.S. election: Storm of anti-Obama spam texts linked to robo-call firm - thestar.com

and the Repuglies and Cons share notes.


----------



## bryanc

MacDoc said:


> Slimy hardly covers it
> ...
> the Repuglies and Cons share notes.


Don't they also share staff? My recollection is that the Conservatives were using the same campaign consulting companies as the Republicans, and that there was some controversy over wether the financing of these shared PR resources was above-board.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> And Macfury, that is the issue, under the current laws you can do what ever you want and no one can find you............


I have always agreed with the notion that corporations are not people--but that there are real people responsible for what they do. Its called the executive and board of directors. So while we disagree on the basic concept of limitations of dollar amounts, we do agree on identifying the source of the advertisement.

By the ways, I receive a lot of e-mail from SuperPacs for some reason. Mostly from the Navy Seals against Obama.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> No, I believe in turning the other cheek. I don't want the thread to break down in bickering. I was looking at the broader picture of the chronic needs of some people as well as the sudden immediate needs of some. I feel that it is the responsibility of the various levels of government to help those in need in both situations, and there are some in this thread that disagree with this view. So, since we live in a civil society with the freedom of speech and thought, I choose to take the high ground and just keep posting without taking shots at other posters. Paix, mon ami.


Well you're right, I tend forget some discuss, others bait.

In any case, same old. I should have known.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Yes Macfury, but the true political ads are not the issue, it is the second tier PAC ads which do not actually use the words support, votes, endorse etc... this is were the money is and it is invisible to who is financing it. If you saw Detroit TV you would see blatantly false ads over Proposition 5 and 6 all financed by the Bridge Company, but no where do you see who is taking ownership. Of interest to you should be the recent challenge by Montana to the Supreme Courts ruling....check that out and then see if you disagree with me. Outside big money is covering the state and cherry picking who they want elected by slandering local politicians....it was so blatant that the State Election Board filed the law suit as it was freedom of speech but actually restricting it. In Canada, we are restricted to no more than $30,000 but see what is happening in Alberta....we caught that because our laws do not allowed for the invisible nature of tier 2 contributions......


I find the whole superPAC thing utterly ridiculous. I'm not quite sure how this sort of freedom of speech helps anything, certainly it hinders others from being heard. Perhaps there should be limits. You ca say what you want, but you need to be both liable and accountable for it, and you can't blanket so hard so as to interfere with others.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well you're right, I tend forget some discuss, others bait.
> 
> In any case, same old. I should have known.


No problem. So, now it's on to the upcoming election. Pres. Obama wins by a squeaker will be the headline.


----------



## Dr.G.

Citing climate change, Bloomberg endorses Obama – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

No big surprise ..................... Now, if Gov. Chris Christie should switch his endorsement as a result of Superstorm Sandy ........... now THAT would be news.


----------



## Dr.G.

"The Redskins-Panthers game this Sunday could have quite an impact on Washington's chances in the NFC East while potentially breaking Carolina's season for good. But it wouldn't be surprising to see if President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney keep tabs on the game as well.

That's because the Redskins, in their final home game before voters cast their ballots, have become quite a predictor for presidential elections.

In 17 of the 18 contests in which the Redskins suited up before an election -- beginning in 1940 when the Redskins beat the Steelers and Franklin D. Roosevelt kept his presidency by vanquishing Wendell Willkie -- a Washington victory at home has signaled the incumbent party would keep the White House while a defeat has meant the opposite.

It's called the Redskins Rule, and it's fascinating.

The only variation in this rule from the past 72 years occurred in 2004 when the Packers beat the Redskins 28-14, which predicted that John Kerry would knock George W. Bush out of his job. That didn't happen, and the man who discovered the Redskins Rule has figured out a variation."

A Redskins victory vs. Panthers means Obama wins, loss means Romney wins - CBSSports.com


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> No problem. So, now it's on to the upcoming election. Pres. Obama wins by a squeaker will be the headline.


Quite possible from the looks of things. But I read that Romney's son owns or has tabs on the voting machines in Ohio.

Funny that.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Quite possible from the looks of things. But I read that Romney's son owns or has tabs on the voting machines in Ohio.
> 
> Funny that.


Oops ......................................


----------



## Rps

From the mouths of Babes.............
Little Girl Cries Over Obama and Mitt Romney !!! - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> From the mouths of Babes.............
> Little Girl Cries Over Obama and Mitt Romney !!! - YouTube


Those mean politicians .................. making a little girl cry. Too bad Ron Paul was not around to sooth and comfort her.


----------



## cap10subtext

Weeeeeee I get to be in a red state during the election. Either outcome will certainly involve beer.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Mitt loses it on Mormonism - presidential material eh?
Mitt Romney speaking about Mormon faith - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

cap10subtext said:


> Weeeeeee I get to be in a red state during the election. Either outcome will certainly involve beer.


Kudos. Which state???


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Mitt loses it on Mormonism - presidential material eh?
> Mitt Romney speaking about Mormon faith - YouTube


Well, he will be up there on Mount Rushmore before too long. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> "The Redskins-Panthers game this Sunday could have quite an impact on Washington's chances in the NFC East while potentially breaking Carolina's season for good. But it wouldn't be surprising to see if President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney keep tabs on the game as well.
> 
> That's because the Redskins, in their final home game before voters cast their ballots, have become quite a predictor for presidential elections.
> 
> In 17 of the 18 contests in which the Redskins suited up before an election -- beginning in 1940 when the Redskins beat the Steelers and Franklin D. Roosevelt kept his presidency by vanquishing Wendell Willkie -- a Washington victory at home has signaled the incumbent party would keep the White House while a defeat has meant the opposite.
> 
> It's called the Redskins Rule, and it's fascinating.
> 
> The only variation in this rule from the past 72 years occurred in 2004 when the Packers beat the Redskins 28-14, which predicted that John Kerry would knock George W. Bush out of his job. That didn't happen, and the man who discovered the Redskins Rule has figured out a variation."
> 
> A Redskins victory vs. Panthers means Obama wins, loss means Romney wins - CBSSports.com


The Mittster might have to pull a bit out of one of his secret accounts. Paying the Redskins to throw this one would be relatively cheap insurance.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> The Mittster might have to pull a bit out of one of his secret accounts. Paying the Redskins to throw this one would be relatively cheap insurance.


Mormons do not bet or drink, so I think that this football game will be played on the up and up.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, thought you might find this interesting:

EconoMonitor : EconoMonitor » The U.S. Is Now a Corporate Monarchy


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Mormons do not bet or drink, so I think that this football game will be played on the up and up.


It occurs to me that Mitt may be what we in Mormon Country refer to as a Jack Mormon. In which case all bets are on.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> It occurs to me that Mitt may be what we in Mormon Country refer to as a Jack Mormon. In which case all bets are on.


Well, he may play loose with his taxes, but I think that the game shall be played fairly.


----------



## Dr.G.

Last white House Democratic congressman in the Deep South fights for political survival – In America - CNN.com Blogs

How times have changed in the deep South in the US ............... certainly from the days when I was living in Georgia.


----------



## Dr.G.

I just tried out CNN's interactive electoral poll map and put in my predictions. Here is what I predicted. Lord, I hope that I am WRONG!! We shall see. :-(XX)

Obama total: 246

Romney total: 292


----------



## eMacMan

Bloomburg seems to have discovered a microscopic hidden supply of sanity and cancelled the marathon.

My Gawd! Using emergency generators to power press coverage and cops to clear the route. What was he thinking!


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Dr.G. said:


> I just tried out CNN's interactive electoral poll map and put in my predictions. Here is what I predicted. Lord, I hope that I am WRONG!! We shall see. :-(XX)
> 
> Obama total: 246
> 
> Romney total: 292


I'd be interested in hearing what your calculations are Dr.G because I'd say that Romney has a very difficult path to get to 270 electoral votes compared to Obama. Even if Romney wins, I don't see if being by more than a few spare votes over the line, certainly not 22.

Most observers would agree that there are 7 real battleground states currently: Florida (29 EVs), Ohio (18 EVs), Virginia (13 EVs), Wisconsin (10 EVs), Colorado (9 EVs), Iowa (6 EVs) and New Hampshire (4 EVs).

Of those, Romney's best chances are Florida and Virginia. Obama is further ahead in Ohio and moving up recently, possibly due to Romney's most recent blatant and well-publicized lying about the auto industry. But let's say that through a combination of much of the reported underhanded GOP voter suppression techniques or even voting machine fraud, Romney takes that state as well. He's still only up to 266 EVs. He'd now needs one of the other remaining 4 states as well to get the brass ring.

In all those remaining states Obama's polling average is going up and Wisconsin probably shouldn't even be considered a battleground state anymore.

On the other hand Romney's share in polling averages is going down in Virginia and Ohio. He's holding up in Florida by a slim margin, and that's probably the safest call for him of the battlegrounds. But if Romney doesn't sweep Florida, Ohio and Virginia plus one other, he's toast.

My call, completely non-scientific, would be that of those 7 states, Romney will possibly take only Florida and Virginia. I'm worried about Ohio, but if Romney takes it in addition to those 2, he'll still need something more.

We shall see. I'll certainly be happy when this interminable US election madness is over.


----------



## Macfury

Gratuitous, you're accepting those polls at face value. Drill down into the methodology. Not a single poll showing Obama is ahead assumes anything other than an identical turnout to 2008. In many cases those numbers are massaged to try to replicate 2008 by representing Democrats anywhere from 5 to 9 per cent above Republicans. In poll fairyland 2010 never happened, independents are leaning Democrat instead of Republican, and Democrats are still as much in love with Barack Obama as they were in 2008.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, thought you might find this interesting:
> 
> EconoMonitor : EconoMonitor » The U.S. Is Now a Corporate Monarchy


Well, then who better to rule over all of the peasants than King Mitt I ?????


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Bloomburg seems to have discovered a microscopic hidden supply of sanity and cancelled the marathon.
> 
> My Gawd! Using emergency generators to power press coverage and cops to clear the route. What was he thinking!


:clap::clap::clap::clap: I agree. A very smart move to cancel the NYC Marathon.


----------



## Dr.G.

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I'd be interested in hearing what your calculations are Dr.G because I'd say that Romney has a very difficult path to get to 270 electoral votes compared to Obama. Even if Romney wins, I don't see if being by more than a few spare votes over the line, certainly not 22.
> 
> Most observers would agree that there are 7 real battleground states currently: Florida (29 EVs), Ohio (18 EVs), Virginia (13 EVs), Wisconsin (10 EVs), Colorado (9 EVs), Iowa (6 EVs) and New Hampshire (4 EVs).
> 
> Of those, Romney's best chances are Florida and Virginia. Obama is further ahead in Ohio and moving up recently, possibly due to Romney's most recent blatant and well-publicized lying about the auto industry. But let's say that through a combination of much of the reported underhanded GOP voter suppression techniques or even voting machine fraud, Romney takes that state as well. He's still only up to 266 EVs. He'd now needs one of the other remaining 4 states as well to get the brass ring.
> 
> In all those remaining states Obama's polling average is going up and Wisconsin probably shouldn't even be considered a battleground state anymore.
> 
> On the other hand Romney's share in polling averages is going down in Virginia and Ohio. He's holding up in Florida by a slim margin, and that's probably the safest call for him of the battlegrounds. But if Romney doesn't sweep Florida, Ohio and Virginia plus one other, he's toast.
> 
> My call, completely non-scientific, would be that of those 7 states, Romney will possibly take only Florida and Virginia. I'm worried about Ohio, but if Romney takes it in addition to those 2, he'll still need something more.
> 
> We shall see. I'll certainly be happy when this interminable US election madness is over.


Well, I hope that my predictions are dead wrong, GA. XX)XX)

I too will be glad to see this election season over .............. and may Pres. Obama attain the same success as my beloved SF Giants did in the World Series this year. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CNN 2012 Electoral Map -- Elections & Politics from CNN.com

Play around with this map as I did .................. hopefully, you shall get a better result in your speculations than I did earlier.


----------



## MacDoc

Couple more right wingding myths blown out...












> The economy under President Bush added 1.1 million jobs over eight years based on the total payroll count between January 2001 and January 2009.* That number was positive only because the number of government jobs rose during those years. Private-sector employment fell by 646,000 during his presidency.*





> *Private-sector payrolls are up 759,000 since January 2009. Government jobs are down 565,000 *under Mr. Obama’s tenure.


Tallying President Obama’s Jobs Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Couple more right wingding myths blown out...


Bush's worst unemployment rate was 7.8%--and this is the same as Obama's best!


----------



## groovetube

If anyone reads the last statement, it nicely sums up the total lack of honesty on the further right's position.

It;s really too bad much of this election discussion just gets dragged down to this kind of lowest common denominator.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> If anyone reads the last statement, it nicely sums up the total lack of honesty on the further right's position.
> 
> It;s really too bad much of this election discussion just gets dragged down to this kind of lowest common denominator.


Now, now, gt, play nicely in the sandbox. Remember the prisoner's lament -- "Two men looked out from behind prison bars, one looked up and saw the stars ......... the other looked down and saw the mud." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Now, now, gt, play nicely in the sandbox. Remember the prisoner's lament -- "Two men looked out from behind prison bars, one looked up and saw the stars ......... the other looked down and saw the mud." Paix, mon ami.


Well as you've said a few time dr G, you can be entitled to an opinion, but not your own facts.

I think we can move past the constant 'Obama spent more' nonsense because we know more details and facts than that. I think it'd be great to move to more relevant things in the campaign.

We all know in general why the spending continued into Obama's presidency, it's probably more important to see where spending will go with either candidate. Given recent history, and facts, oh those pesky pesky facts, pretending that republicans spend a lot less is simply not factual, whatsoever. Questions tend not to be who will spend more, but how does the candidates math 'add up', and what they intend to prioritize, and it's effects on the economy.

Just expressing dismay that we are still mired in this circle of repeated mantras when I thought we were at least informed enough to get past it.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Two men looked out from behind prison bars, one looked up and saw the stars ......... the other looked down and saw the mud." Paix, mon ami.


It's true--Obama has spent the rent money and the U.S. budget deficit now piles up to the stars.


----------



## BigDL

I listened to Day 6 and what Michael Dukakis had to say with regard to Mitt Romney's performance as Governor of Massachusetts and how the voters of Massachusetts will vote on the record of Governor Romney.

The episode also references voter fraud. Interesting stuff also Lewis Black provides his views as well.

Episode 102: Election Special, Sandy's Message, Lewis Black and more | Day 6 with Brent Bambury | CBC Radio

I earlier in this thread, commented on, the answer to who is the winner and being patient until Nov 7th. I now am of the belief that the answer will come long after Nov. 7th, and visions of hanging chads and long drawn out blathering and the possibility of a Republican President and Democratic Vice-President. (also referenced in the Day 6 episode.)


----------



## MacDoc

speaking loosely of Black


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well as you've said a few time dr G, you can be entitled to an opinion, but not your own facts.
> 
> I think we can move past the constant 'Obama spent more' nonsense because we know more details and facts than that. I think it'd be great to move to more relevant things in the campaign.
> 
> We all know in general why the spending continued into Obama's presidency, it's probably more important to see where spending will go with either candidate. Given recent history, and facts, oh those pesky pesky facts, pretending that republicans spend a lot less is simply not factual, whatsoever. Questions tend not to be who will spend more, but how does the candidates math 'add up', and what they intend to prioritize, and it's effects on the economy.
> 
> Just expressing dismay that we are still mired in this circle of repeated mantras when I thought we were at least informed enough to get past it.


Now, why bring the concept of "facts" into the discussion, gt??? It only confuses the matter. I have been educated this past week -- I did not know that Jeep production was being shipped over to China.

As well, if you are going to bring math into the equation, especially when talking about economic issues like the budget, well, that is just a non-starter. 

Stick to generalities, platitudes and vague promises, and all will be well.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> I listened to Day 6 and what Michael Dukakis had to say with regard to Mitt Romney's performance as Governor of Massachusetts and how the voters of Massachusetts will vote on the record of Governor Romney.
> 
> The episode also references voter fraud. Interesting stuff also Lewis Black provides his views as well.
> 
> Episode 102: Election Special, Sandy's Message, Lewis Black and more | Day 6 with Brent Bambury | CBC Radio
> 
> I earlier in this thread, commented on, the answer to who is the winner and being patient until Nov 7th. I now am of the belief that the answer will come long after Nov. 7th, and visions of hanging chads and long drawn out blathering and the possibility of a Republican President and Democratic Vice-President. (also referenced in the Day 6 episode.)


Heard the same interview, BigDL. Very interesting, and it does lead one to stop and think of the implications/possibilities in this election. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> speaking loosely of Black


Cool!!! Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> . I have been educated this past week -- I did not know that Jeep production was being shipped over to China. Paix, mon ami.


As someone close to this, Dr. G, Romney's ad is false, Chrysler has stated that it is not sending jeep production to China only that it intends to send Jeeps to the Chinese market. In fact, Chrysler is increasing American jobs at its Jeep production plants.......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> As someone close to this, Dr. G, Romney's ad is false, Chrysler has stated that it is not sending jeep production to China only that it intends to send Jeeps to the Chinese market. In fact, Chrysler is increasing American jobs at its Jeep production plants.......


I think that you are wrong, Rp. Why would the Romney campaign lie about this fact??? The execs at Chrysler and GM could surely counter with the reality that this was not the case, so why would he take the chance of getting caught in a lie? No, you must be wrong. Your mind is being clouded by being so close to the Detroit TV stations that must be carrying subliminal ads for Pres. Obama. 

Get with the program ................. the Romney/Ryan Program ................ bringing change and a better America for all ................. or at least for some. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> I think that you are wrong, Rp. Why would the Romney campaign lie about this fact??? The execs at Chrysler and GM could surely counter with the reality that this was not the case, so why would he take the chance of getting caught in a lie? No, you must be wrong. Your mind is being clouded by being so close to the Detroit TV stations that must be carrying subliminal ads for Pres. Obama.
> 
> Get with the program ................. the Romney/Ryan Program ................ bringing change and a better America for all ................. or at least for some. Paix, mon ami.


The strong denials of Italian Chrysler not sending Jeep production over to China is only further proof that Mitt is correct. If it weren't true then ItalChyslers would not deny the facts. 

Giving money to two thirds of Big Auto, did not save jobs and improve the economy, if it would have Mitt, would have been behind it from the get go.


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> The strong denials of Italian Chrysler not sending Jeep production over to China is only further proof that Mitt is correct. If it weren't true then ItalChyslers would not deny the facts.
> 
> Giving money to two thirds of Big Auto, did not save jobs and improve the economy, if it would have Mitt, would have been behind it from the get go.


No, you are still wrong. Romney had it right initially. Let the big auto companies go bankrupt with a "managed bankruptcy". Then, the pieces could have been picked up by foreign companies .............. leaving Ford as the only American car company. Then, Bain Capital could have brokered to have Ford sold off to China, and we would then import all of our cars from China. It was only logical .................. especially when you look at the situation as it now exists -- American car companies coming back into production, employing thousands upon thousands of workers, helping to improve the American economy ............. all of which are NOT items of good news for the Romney campaign, especially in Michigan and Ohio. 

So, he had the formula correct at the outset and had Pres. Obama followed his plan, it would have guaranteed a victory for Romney. Now, it will be a close race. Bring back the good old days when by midnight Americans knew who had won the race for the presidency.


----------



## Macfury

Romney quote:



> “I_ saw a story today_ that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China.”


Original story in Bloomberg:

Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises - Bloomberg



> Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia. Chrysler hasn’t built Jeeps there since before Fiat took control in 2009.


Chrysler currently builds *all* Jeep SUV models in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Why can't they be made in the U.S. and exported to China?


----------



## groovetube

Conveniently leaving out the part that these jeeps are for the Chinese markets.

But hey don't let facts get in the way!


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Gratuitous, you're accepting those polls at face value. Drill down into the methodology. Not a single poll showing Obama is ahead assumes anything other than an identical turnout to 2008. In many cases those numbers are massaged to try to replicate 2008 by representing Democrats anywhere from 5 to 9 per cent above Republicans. In poll fairyland 2010 never happened, independents are leaning Democrat instead of Republican, and Democrats are still as much in love with Barack Obama as they were in 2008.


MF, I'm not looking at the poll methodology, and I doubt that you are either. Given that there are dozens of poll results at the state levels released every single day, unless you're doing this full time you don't have the time to dig down into the cross tabulation of each and every single poll released to find out how they were conducted and whether they meet your standard for accuracy. Nor do I believe you or I have the expertise in statistical analysis to really judge that accuracy. You're just going by secondhand poll analysis, as am I.

I didn't even go by my favourite poll analyzer, the NYT's fivethirtyeight blog, but rather I used the poll averages published at Real Clear Politics, a GOP leaning operation, just to give Romney the benefit of the doubt. Even though fivethirtyeight's results have been shown to be more accurate, both in '08 and '10.

So, if you disagree, and you have some great insight here that's missing, tell us what you think the numbers *will be* and we'll see on Tuesday who was closer to the right number. It seems to me that you're calling for a landslide for Romney, if you're saying that so many of the close polls are off. So what are we talking about here, 300+ EVs for Mitt? 325+?

And if you're so certain that Romney's EV dominance is not being reported you stand to make yourself some quick cash over at Intrade, where shares betting on a Romney win are going for $3.30 to make $10 if he wins. That's half the price of shares betting on Obama. People putting their money where their mouths are are giving Romney a 32% chance of winning. If you're sure they're way off you can tell us on Tuesday about how many thousands you've made at Obama's expense.


----------



## Rps

I'LL make a prediction..... Romney with 273, sadly I think Obama is done and so is the government of the U.S. as it will be a hung Congress and Senate. If the U.S. had a six year term I think things would be different for Obama .... he really deserves IMO to be President again.


----------



## Dr.G.

"And if you're so certain that Romney's EV dominance is not being reported you stand to make yourself some quick cash over at Intrade, where shares betting on a Romney win are going for $3.30 to make $10 if he wins. That's half the price of shares betting on Obama. People putting their money where their mouths are are giving Romney a 32% chance of winning. If you're sure they're way off you can tell us on Tuesday about how many thousands you've made at Obama's expense. " GA, there's a sucker born every minute. Just wait until the hanging chads show up once again in Florida, and there are thousands of disenfranchised voters who don't have the correct ID to actually vote in Ohio, Penn, et al. That will make the difference for a Romney win. If at first you don't succeed, cheat. That worked for George Bush.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> If at first you don't succeed, cheat. That worked for George Bush.


Not a Bush fan, but he didn't cheat .... structure dictates behaviour and the structure of the individual states election protocols caused what I think was a steal for bush, I really think Gore won but lost on poorly designed protocols......they should get real and standardise all elections process: registration, voting, electoral college .... I'm afraid we may see a repeat of the Bush/Gore battle with Romney winning.


----------



## MacDoc

bit to close to the truth for comfort


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> I'LL make a prediction..... Romney with 273, sadly I think Obama is done and so is the government of the U.S. as it will be a hung Congress and Senate. If the U.S. had a six year term I think things would be different for Obama .... he really deserves IMO to be President again.


I'm with you on the prediction. I think it'll be Romney by a handful. I think it'll be because of the voter suppression techniques being employed (Last-Minute Ohio Directive Could Trash Legal Votes) guess we'll see Tuesday.


----------



## MacDoc

I don't 



> Nov. 2: For Romney to Win, State Polls Must Be Statistically Biased
> By NATE SILVER
> President Obama is now better than a 4-in-5 favorite to win the Electoral College, according to the FiveThirtyEight forecast. His chances of winning it increased to 83.7 percent on Friday, his highest figure since the Denver debate and improved from 80.8 percent on Thursday.


Nov. 2: For Romney to Win, State Polls Must Be Statistically Biased - NYTimes.com



> Friday’s polling should make it easy to discern why Mr. Obama has the Electoral College advantage. *There were 22 polls of swing states published Friday. Of these, Mr. Obama led in 19 polls, and two showed a tie*. Mitt Romney led in just one of the surveys, a Mason-Dixon poll of Florida.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

... waiting to hear MF's take on the numbers, since he thinks that Romney will outperform the current polling in the battleground states.

I'll concede that Romney may win, possibly even due to shenanigans in Ohio, but as I said earlier, even winning Ohio doesn't guarantee anything. He has to outperform polling averages in almost all the battleground states.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> MF, I'm not looking at the poll methodology, and I doubt that you are either. Given that there are dozens of poll results at the state levels released every single day, unless you're doing this full time you don't have the time to dig down into the cross tabulation of each and every single poll released to find out how they were conducted and whether they meet your standard for accuracy. Nor do I believe you or I have the expertise in statistical analysis to really judge that accuracy. You're just going by secondhand poll analysis, as am I.
> 
> I didn't even go by my favourite poll analyzer, the NYT's fivethirtyeight blog, but rather I used the poll averages published at Real Clear Politics, a GOP leaning operation, just to give Romney the benefit of the doubt. Even though fivethirtyeight's results have been shown to be more accurate, both in '08 and '10.
> 
> So, if you disagree, and you have some great insight here that's missing, tell us what you think the numbers *will be* and we'll see on Tuesday who was closer to the right number. It seems to me that you're calling for a landslide for Romney, if you're saying that so many of the close polls are off. So what are we talking about here, 300+ EVs for Mitt? 325+?
> 
> And if you're so certain that Romney's EV dominance is not being reported you stand to make yourself some quick cash over at Intrade, where shares betting on a Romney win are going for $3.30 to make $10 if he wins. That's half the price of shares betting on Obama. People putting their money where their mouths are are giving Romney a 32% chance of winning. If you're sure they're way off you can tell us on Tuesday about how many thousands you've made at Obama's expense.



I love RCP, because they give you a click-through to the methodology--and yes, I check it for most national polls and some swing state polls. And yes, I have money on Romney.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> ... waiting to hear MF's take on the numbers, since he thinks that Romney will outperform the current polling in the battleground states.
> 
> I'll concede that Romney may win, possibly even due to shenanigans in Ohio, but as I said earlier, even winning Ohio doesn't guarantee anything. He has to outperform polling averages in almost all the battleground states.


No, he does not have to overcome average--just the real number!


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> No, he does not have to overcome average--just the real number!


So what states do you think the polling is mistaken in, based on your thorough investigation of all the polling methodologies?

How much money are you slated to win on Tuesday? Are you getting a new Retina MBP, or are we talking about something more like the new BMW range?


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Nov. 2: For Romney to Win, State Polls Must Be Statistically Biased - NYTimes.com



> Yes, of course: most of the arguments that the polls are necessarily biased against Mr. Romney reflect little more than wishful thinking.
> 
> Nevertheless, these arguments are potentially more intellectually coherent than the ones that propose that the leader in the race is “too close to call.” It isn’t. If the state polls are right, then Mr. Obama will win the Electoral College. If you can’t acknowledge that after a day when Mr. Obama leads 19 out of 20 swing-state polls, then you should abandon the pretense that your goal is to inform rather than entertain the public.
> 
> But the state polls may not be right. They could be biased. Based on the historical reliability of polls, we put the chance that they will be biased enough to elect Mr. Romney at 16 percent.


So what is it Macfury, do you have some defensible reasons for your scepticism of the numbers and specific examples of polls biased against Romney or do your vague assertions fall under the category of wishful thinking?


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> So what is it Macfury, do you have some defensible reasons for your scepticism of the numbers and specific examples of polls biased against Romney or do your vague assertions fall under the category of wishful thinking?


Sorry, I thought you said didn't have much interest in the methodologies. 

Only two recent national polls show Obama ahead.

National Journal has Obama up by 5, but has adjusted the numbers to favour Democrat respondents 36 to 28, assuming a repeat of 2008. The most thorough surveys of voter identification now show a slight edge to Republicans--perhaps 1 per cent. I would say that poll actually shows Romney up by at least two.

CBS/NYT has Obama up by 1, but re-weights its poll results to favour Democrats by 5 per cent. I would also say that poll actually shows Romney up by at least two.

Not a single recent national poll shows an advantage for Obama, once the numbers are adjusted for actual voter ID--and not even by the full skew.


----------



## Dr.G.

How secure is your electronic vote? - CNN.com

Great. This will favor Romney .................... he will move from a slim win to a landslide. No paper trails will lead to "Happy Trails" for the Romney/Ryan ticket. Excelsior. 

Dale Evans & Roy Rogers - YouTube


----------



## MacDoc

> *Murdoch threatens Christie: Re-endorse Romney or else!*
> Fox News chief tweets that the N.J. governor needs to back Romney again publicly -- or be blamed for Obama's win
> By David Daley


Murdoch threatens Christie: Re-endorse Romney or else! - Salon.com

escape clause for failure of the Repuglies.....certainly earning the ugly section.


----------



## Macfury

Chris Christie, Greek Column for Obama's last stump speech:


----------



## jimbotelecom

Mitt, Mitt, Mitt, Mitt, etc.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Lance Armstrong endorses Mitt -

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/27/1151241/-Lance-Armstrong-Endorses-Mitt-Romney

Oh oh.


----------



## groovetube

well, one cheater to another!

Amazing that those who strongly defend citizen's rights and freedoms aren't outraged by people being threatened by job losses if they don't vote a certain way.


----------



## SINC

Perhaps more truth here than not:


----------



## Rps

Okay so here's simple rule for you and I've worked many campaigns, where are they the last two days, look there and you will see what votes they need. This assumes both are 50 50 in the polls, 5 states will determine this thing.


----------



## i-rui




----------



## Macfury

Who is that saintly character on the left supposed to be?


----------



## Sonal

New York Times' infographic on all 512 paths to the White House.
512 Paths to the White House - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Perhaps more truth here than not:


Interesting. This would have been the case of my parents when I was growing up. My father was for Dewey, Ike, Nixon and Ford, while my mom was for all the Dems running against them.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> New York Times' infographic on all 512 paths to the White House.
> 512 Paths to the White House - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com


Talk about combinations and permutations re stats!!! 

Let's just hope for a landslide victory for Pres. Obama. We shall see.

Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


>


Sadly, billionaires in America shall be cast adrift regardless of who wins the election. They are America's forgotten minority.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Bush's worst unemployment rate was 7.8%--and this is the same as Obama's best!


Perhaps because Bush inherited a booming economy after 8 years of Democratic administration, whereas Obama inherited an economic train wreck after 8 years of Republican administration.


----------



## heavyall

I think it's so funny that people get so entrenched into Republican vs Democrat partisanship that they can't just accept the fact that both Bush and Obama have been horrifically bad Presidents, and that a different person is required at the top regardless of the party s/he represents. Bush was bad, everything that he did badly, Obama did as bad if not worse, so get someone else.


----------



## eMacMan

heavyall said:


> I think it's so funny that people get so entrenched into Republican vs Democrat partisanship that they can't just accept the fact that both Bush and Obama have been horrifically bad Presidents, and that a different person is required at the top regardless of the party s/he represents. Bush was bad, everything that he did badly, Obama did as bad if not worse, so get someone else.


True dat. Bush IV can be counted on to stay the corporate course.


----------



## groovetube

If Romney makes good on the few scant details of he said he would do, it'll make both bush and Obama look like fantastic presidents.

It'll take a few years but doing the whole trickle down crap will take America down even furher. Quite possibly to a point where it may not recover for the foreseeable future.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Sorry, I thought you said didn't have much interest in the methodologies.
> 
> Only two recent national polls show Obama ahead.
> 
> National Journal has Obama up by 5, but has adjusted the numbers to favour Democrat respondents 36 to 28, assuming a repeat of 2008. The most thorough surveys of voter identification now show a slight edge to Republicans--perhaps 1 per cent. I would say that poll actually shows Romney up by at least two.
> 
> CBS/NYT has Obama up by 1, but re-weights its poll results to favour Democrats by 5 per cent. I would also say that poll actually shows Romney up by at least two.
> 
> Not a single recent national poll shows an advantage for Obama, once the numbers are adjusted for actual voter ID--and not even by the full skew.


Oh my MF, that's such a sad response. And here I was thinking that you understood something about how the US electoral college system worked.

1) The only thing that is of any importance in the polls is what it says about the battleground states. Romney can get a million votes in the safe red states to pump up his totals and it's not going to help him win electoral votes in Ohio or Wisconsin or New Hampshire or Colorado.

Or maybe you know all this but are choosing to avoid replying about specific instances in the battleground states because you don't have anything credible to say about the EV situation for your favourite candidate. So you hope a few unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about some national poll results that don't match your wishful thinking might deflect enough.

2) Of course even the GOP-leaning Real Clear Politics currently shows a slight lead for Obama when they average out the various national polling. If you're going to say that the +5% outlier for Obama is a fraud, then you have to see that there's another outlier that shows +5% for Romney. But I guess if you want to cherry-pick which polls to brand as "skewed", only the ones supporting your assumptions will be viewed uncritically.

3) I never said I didn't have an interest in methodologies, just that I would prefer to have those methodologies be investigated by those who know what they're looking at rather than those who cherry-pick to support their agenda.

It's the fashion this year for GOP supporters to charge that the polls oversample Democrats, even though they really don't know anything of the sort. But they read various conspiracy theories on fringe right blogs making these unsubstantiated charges about oversampling and skewing. In the absence of data going the way they'd like, right-wingers tend to assume there's a grand conspiracy in place by elite cabals in the liberal media. As you dig down through these blogs the stench of insanity just gets worse and worse. The current line on knuckle-dragger sites is "Look out Libtards, your media elites have manufactured a fantasy for you that will crumble as Romney wins a Reagan-esque landslide on Tuesday!"

4) You still haven't stated what battleground states Romney is going to win to get to 270 EVs, just talked some babble about the national numbers. Are you buying into the landslide fantasy that Romney will win all of the battlegrounds and even take a few others like Michigan and Pennsylvania? Might as well throw in NY and California too.

Your lack of specifics is quite telling.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Sonal said:


> New York Times' infographic on all 512 paths to the White House.
> 512 Paths to the White House - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com


That's a fantastic tool, -- really well done. I think it shows just how difficult it is for Romney to win it all, but also shows how that changes if Romney wins both Florida and Ohio. Even with that though, Obama could still win. I think Romney will most likely win Florida, so as everyone is saying Ohio is pivotal.

It will be fun to play with these scenarios on Tuesday as the votes are coming in. I wish this page this was an iPhone app.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Oh my MF, that's such a sad response. And here I was thinking that you understood something about how the US electoral college system worked.


Talk about tilting at straw men! 

Only four presidents have been elected by the electoral college without winning the national popular vote: Adams, Hayes, Harrison and Bush II. Each of them received within 0.5 % of the popular vote of the other candidate. Based on current polling results and underlying methodology, Obama would have to pull that off while losing the popular vote by 2 to 3 per cent.

I've searched the methodologies of most of the polls and all of the recent polls on RCP over the past month and have found no poll that oversamples Republicans. I've also checked polls not included on RCP, such as Quinnipiac. Even the last FOX News poll showing Obama and Romney tied oversamples Democrats by 5 per cent--that's because these polls are prepared at arm's length by third parties, in this case Anderson Robbins Research and Shaw & Company Research.

However, I've also studied The Electoral College positions carefully this election, and I've been downloading the methodologies of significant polls in swing states, particularly Florida and Ohio. The national results are replicated on a state-by-state level, with most pollsters assuming a 2012 turnout identical to 2008, while ignoring 2010 entirely. While New York and California are out of reach to Romney, Obama is fighting for his life in a large number of states believed to be solidly in the Democrat fold. If you'd told David Axelrod last month that a major Michigan poll released on the eve of the election showed Romney ahead by a point, he'd have called you crazy. 

Polls can change, even in the final days, but if the vote were held today, Romney would win handily.


----------



## i-rui

heavyall said:


> I think it's so funny that people get so entrenched into Republican vs Democrat partisanship that they can't just accept the fact that both Bush and Obama have been horrifically bad Presidents, and that a different person is required at the top regardless of the party s/he represents. Bush was bad, everything that he did badly, Obama did as bad if not worse, so get someone else.


people are so entrenched because there are only 2 parties. that's probably the biggest reason America's political system is in such a mess. 

so when you say :



> Bush was bad, everything that he did badly, Obama did as bad if not worse, so get someone else.


that "someone else" can only be the republican candidate because of the system which has been carved up by both parties. at which point you're not being intelligent with your vote because you're neglecting everything the republican party did previous to Obama to create the mess he inherited.

i also think you're way off in saying Obama has been "as bad if not worse" compared to Bush. He certainly has not been perfect and a certain amount of criticism is valid, but given the circumstances he still gets a passing grade from me.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> ...he still gets a passing grade from me.


That's the shocker of the year...


----------



## groovetube

Lets see. President who took an economy from booming and surplus to worst financial crash since the Great Depression, and the other, while not without valid critisicm stabilized the financial crash and now we're seeing real signs of growth in many sectors.

I'll go with the guy who improved things thanks.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Yup - Bush who? Cheney who? Rumsfeld who? Pearle who? Wolfowitz who?

Lest we forget. 

So are you better off now than 4 years ago?


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> So are you better off now than 4 years ago?


This is not the question at all. Voters are clearly worse off than they were 4 years ago. The question is whether they blame Obama for that.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> If Romney makes good on the few scant details of he said he would do, it'll make both bush and Obama look like fantastic presidents.
> 
> It'll take a few years but doing the whole trickle down crap will take America down even furher. Quite possibly to a point where it may not recover for the foreseeable future.


I am sure that the true Republican fiscal conservatives would love to see Romney elected. Bush was such a disappointment for them. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Lets see. President who took an economy from booming and surplus to worst financial crash since the Great Depression, and the other, while not without valid critisicm stabilized the financial crash and now we're seeing real signs of growth in many sectors.
> 
> I'll go with the guy who improved things thanks.


Me too!!!! :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Yup - Bush who? Cheney who? Rumsfeld who? Pearle who? Wolfowitz who?
> 
> Lest we forget.
> 
> So are you better off now than 4 years ago?


True and yes.


----------



## Rps

Okay let's get real here, Obama and Romney are virtually tied. The reason is both are carrying states with a fair amount of EC votes, public opinion has nothing to do with it, it's the representational system that is the key. Romney and Obama aren't going to Florida ( last I saw ) that means what ever the poll states they agree with .... meaning one knows it's lost to them, Florida carries many EC votes, so......... Ohio is the next battle ground, who carries Ohio will win. Right now, I'm thinking it's Obama in Ohio. As for you poll fans, Romney is behind in Mass by about 35%.....so, that's how well they think he was a Governor........ I don't think we will know until about 5 am the next morning..... many many states tie their voting up with propositions and that can be a slow voting process......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Okay let's get real here, Obama and Romney are virtually tied. The reason is both are carrying states with a fair amount of EC votes, public opinion has nothing to do with it, it's the representational system that is the key. Romney and Obama aren't going to Florida ( last I saw ) that means what ever the poll states they agree with .... meaning one knows it's lost to them, Florida carries many EC votes, so......... Ohio is the next battle ground, who carries Ohio will win. Right now, I'm thinking it's Obama in Ohio. As for you poll fans, Romney is behind in Mass by about 35%.....so, that's how well they think he was a Governor........ I don't think we will know until about 5 am the next morning..... many many states tie their voting up with propositions and that can be a slow voting process......


All valid points, Rp. We might know who has won by 5AM ....................... on Thursday or Friday morning. It all depends upon the absentee ballots and if the electronic voting machines, which leave no paper trail, work as intended. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If I were drawing that cartoon, I'd show a few of them with their mouths agape and staring into space, waiting for food to fall in.

I'm going to read it again, but this time with a selection by Stéphane Grappelli playing in the background.


----------



## heavyall

jimbotelecom said:


> So are you better off now than 4 years ago?


*I* am, but I don't live in the US.

Americans clearly are in much worse shape now than four years ago.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> *I* am, but I don't live in the US.
> 
> Americans clearly are in much worse shape now than four years ago.


By almost all of the measurable metrics they are. Again, the question is whether they believe Obama is responsible. I suspect the GOP eased off on re-asking the Reagan question so bluntly, simply because many people believe that Obama handled his challenges badly, but don't fully blame him for the results of his policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting .......................


----------



## Macfury

Herman Munster lost the election in 2004:

However, sadly his running mate has been forgotten now.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Only four presidents have been elected by the electoral college without winning the national popular vote: Adams, Hayes, Harrison and Bush II. Each of them received within 0.5 % of the popular vote of the other candidate. Based on current polling results and underlying methodology, Obama would have to pull that off while losing the popular vote by 2 to 3 per cent.


As someone who appears to disregard reason and science when it doesn't fit your preconceived outcome I shouldn't expect you to understand that correlation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with causality. I expect that next you'd have us believe that since no incumbent President except one has prevailed when the Washington Redskins have lost their final home game before the election, this also has some bearing on the Electoral College totals. What's next, "Hamburger polls across the nation point to Romney landslide"?



Macfury said:


> Based on current polling results and underlying methodology, Obama would have to pull that off while losing the popular vote by 2 to 3 per cent.


Says the eminent polling analysis organization, the *Macfury Institute for Obama Hatred*. I'm sure you realize that even your esteemed GOP-centric Real Clear Politics currently shows the average national polls being up by half a point for Obama.

Oh sorry, I see that after applying the _*Macfury Patented Magical Poll Analytics™*_ to that number shows he's actually behind by 2 to 3 points. I see.



Macfury said:


> I've searched the methodologies of most of the polls and all of the recent polls on RCP over the past month and have found no poll that oversamples Republicans. I've also checked polls not included on RCP, such as Quinnipiac. Even the last FOX News poll showing Obama and Romney tied oversamples Democrats by 5 per cent--that's because these polls are prepared at arm's length by third parties, in this case Anderson Robbins Research and Shaw & Company Research.
> 
> However, I've also studied The Electoral College positions carefully this election, and I've been downloading the methodologies of significant polls in swing states, particularly Florida and Ohio. The national results are replicated on a state-by-state level, with most pollsters assuming a 2012 turnout identical to 2008, while ignoring 2010 entirely. While New York and California are out of reach to Romney, Obama is fighting for his life in a large number of states believed to be solidly in the Democrat fold. If you'd told David Axelrod last month that a major Michigan poll released on the eve of the election showed Romney ahead by a point, he'd have called you crazy.


…. aaaaaand here we go down the right-wing conspiracy theory rabbit hole with Macfury. 

Sorry MF, I know that the polling numbers are no comfort to your desired result, but you have no basis for making these claims of oversampling and skewed polling. Over time, with the sheer volume of endless polling that happens during US Presidential elections the polling averages have been shown to be very close to the final result.



Macfury said:


> Polls can change, even in the final days, but if the vote were held today, Romney would win handily.


Yes, polls can change, although at this point historically they've been fairly well settled. But yes, Romney can win, although if he does it will be a squeaker for him. Not "handily", not a blowout.

Or on the other hand, you can believe the right-wing fairy tales such as the ones pedalled on UnSkewed Polls.com. Here in amongst the clearly unbiased articles like "Vote Mitt Reagan" and "KinderGarden Of Eden: How the Modern Liberal Thinks" and links to books and web sites for the likes of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Dick Morris and other fair and balanced members of the punditocracy, we see articles railing against the corrupt polling companies who are all in the tank for Nobama and predictions of 359 EVs for Romney. 

Hurry up everyone, and head over to Intrade. $1000 on Romney to win will get you almost $3000. According to the rock-solid polling analysis of MF, it's a sure thing.


----------



## Macfury

Gratuitous, I know you are counting on an Obama victory, but I expected better of you than _ad hominem _attacks. I checked out your recommended Unskewed Polls site but found it wanting. Polling methodology is available directly from the polling providers and I do the math myself. Likewise you're wasting your time sniffing around the Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity sites, since they don't produce any polls.

I've taken time to explain my reasoning and share it here in a political forum. No need to be hostile.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Gratuitous, I know you are counting on an Obama victory, ......


I don't know why you bother GA, but all the power to you.

I've heard over and over the conspiracy theories of dem oversampling, amongst several other wild theories. But despite any reasoning you may provide, it just ends up that you're just a Obama lover. And people jumped on me when I used the 'T' word...


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Okay let's get real here, Obama and Romney are virtually tied. The reason is both are carrying states with a fair amount of EC votes, public opinion has nothing to do with it, it's the representational system that is the key. Romney and Obama aren't going to Florida ( last I saw ) that means what ever the poll states they agree with .... meaning one knows it's lost to them, Florida carries many EC votes, so......... Ohio is the next battle ground, who carries Ohio will win. Right now, I'm thinking it's Obama in Ohio. As for you poll fans, Romney is behind in Mass by about 35%.....so, that's how well they think he was a Governor........ I don't think we will know until about 5 am the next morning..... many many states tie their voting up with propositions and that can be a slow voting process......


I agree rps. It is interesting that the state where Romney was governor he is not well liked.

Perhaps that'll be the result should Romney get in. In fact I can guarantee it.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Gratuitous, I know you are counting on an Obama victory, but I expected better of you than _ad hominem _attacks. I checked out your recommended Unskewed Polls site but found it wanting. Polling methodology is available directly from the polling providers and I do the math myself. Likewise you're wasting your time sniffing around the Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity sites, since they don't produce any polls.
> 
> I've taken time to explain my reasoning and share it here in a political forum. No need to be hostile.


Macfury, I never took you for the easily wounded type, but no hostility or ad hominen was intended. My satire was directed squarely at your arguments, which I find highly worthy of mockery. I thought you might enjoy a chuckle or two. If I've offended you that was not my intention and I apologize.

Regarding the link to the UnSkewed Polls site, I added that because you are using exactly the same arguments and language as that site. I see that the Unskewed Polls information is being quoted throughout the right-wing blogosphere, it seems to be the go-to site for those on the right who think that the polls are all wrong. I'll take you at your word that you are independently analyzing dozens of polls per day to correct what you see as faulty data. Is your home-brewed poll analysis less extreme in their conclusions than the unskewed guy, even though they seem to point to similar results? Will Michigan and Penn. fall to Romney despite what all this supposedly biased polling is telling everyone else?

As for counting on an Obama victory, I wouldn't gamble money on it, as you have for Romney. Of course I'd prefer to see Romney dispatched back to his plutocratic lair, but I don't need to create a new version of the data to conform to my desired result.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

groovetube said:


> I don't know why you bother GA, but all the power to you.
> 
> I've heard over and over the conspiracy theories of dem oversampling, amongst several other wild theories. But despite any reasoning you may provide, it just ends up that you're just a Obama lover. And people jumped on me when I used the 'T' word...


I generally don't bother these days as I usually have more important things to do than sit in Everything Else debating politics. It started out with what I thought was a realistic observation, based on the current polling of what I thought Romeny's chances are. As I said, difficult for him, but not impossible.

MF engaged me with a conspiracy theory that all the polls are wrong and biased and that Romney is a sure thing, which I just found ridiculous. 

To those who have read my posts here, I would think my preference would be clear. I don't think Obama is fantastic, I've found him often very disappointing, but Romney would be a disaster in my opinion. Romney is a mountain of BS masquerading as a person, and I'm constantly amazed that so many Americans could be blind to that. But I guess that makes me an Obama-lover.


----------



## groovetube

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I generally don't bother these days as I usually have more important things to do than sit in Everything Else debating politics. It started out with what I thought was a realistic observation, based on the current polling of what I thought Romeny's chances are. As I said, difficult for him, but not impossible.
> 
> MF engaged me with a conspiracy theory that all the polls are wrong and biased and that Romney is a sure thing, which I just found ridiculous.
> 
> To those who have read my posts here, I would think my preference would be clear. I don't think Obama is fantastic, I've found him often very disappointing, but Romney would be a disaster in my opinion. Romney is a mountain of BS masquerading as a person, and I'm constantly amazed that so many Americans could be blind to that. But I guess that makes me an Obama-lover.


I couldn't agree with you more in regards to Obama, and Romney. And I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the polls in any case.

This will be a really interesting election.


----------



## eMacMan

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I generally don't bother these days as I usually have more important things to do than sit in Everything Else debating politics. It started out with what I thought was a realistic observation, based on the current polling of what I thought Romeny's chances are. As I said, difficult for him, but not impossible.
> 
> MF engaged me with a conspiracy theory that all the polls are wrong and biased and that Romney is a sure thing, which I just found ridiculous.
> 
> To those who have read my posts here, I would think my preference would be clear. I don't think Obama is fantastic, I've found him often very disappointing, but Romney would be a disaster in my opinion. Romney is a mountain of BS masquerading as a person, and I'm constantly amazed that so many Americans could be blind to that. But I guess that makes me an Obama-lover.


Still Romney does own the Ohio voting machines and the Republirats were sure that BO won the last election by fixing those very same machines.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Macfury, I never took you for the easily wounded type, but no hostility or ad hominen was intended.


My feelings aren't hurt. However Unskewed Polls is not my source of information. They align too much probability in favour of the Republican candidate. My predictions are much more modest than theirs.

Also, when I say that I believe Romney will score a decisive victory, by this I mean that his victory will not be in dispute by Wednesday morning.


----------



## eMacMan

I wonder if the real poll results are more along the lines:

Bush-III 5%
Bush-IV 5%
Take your ___ ___ ___ poll and shove it ... 90%


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> My feelings aren't hurt. However Unskewed Polls is not my source of information. They align too much probability in favour of the Republican candidate. My predictions are much more modest than theirs.
> 
> Also, when I say that I believe Romney will score a decisive victory, by this I mean that his victory will not be in dispute by Wednesday morning.


So below is a chart for the battleground states showing polling averages for 3 web sites: Nate Silver's fivethirtyeight blog (538), Real Clear Politics (RCP), and the UnSkewed Polls.com site that believes the polls all favour Obama and has therefore "unskewed" them.

You say your analysis is much more modest than UnSkewed but, I would assume, more favourable to Romney than either 538 or RCP. So what are your numbers - currently of course?










(For 538 I used Silver's adjusted averages, where he weights polls based on past accuracy and some weighting due to relative age of the poll and size. I would imagine if I'd used his straight averages they would have been similar to RCP's, assuming they both use the same polls to make their averages, which I'm not sure of.)


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> This is not the question at all.


No. This is the question for millions of people. 

You have another perspective which you are entitled to.


----------



## jimbotelecom

I'll concede that I would not bet on this election. MF is certain that Mitt's the man. We will see - Hopefully on Tuesday night. 

Dewey wins!


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> You say your analysis is much more modest than UnSkewed but, I would assume, more favourable to Romney than either 538 or RCP. So what are your numbers - currently of course?
> 
> --------
> 
> (For 538 I used Silver's adjusted averages, where he weights polls based on past accuracy and some weighting due to relative age of the poll and size. I would imagine if I'd used his straight averages they would have been similar to RCP's, assuming they both use the same polls to make their averages, which I'm not sure of.)


RCP only averages polls as presented--it treats them agnostically, I have simply been adjusting to Gallup's thorough analysis of voter makeup, which shows high Republican enthusiasm and party self identification favouring self-identified Republicans at 1 per cent above Democrats.

If I see a poll in which Democrats are favoured nationally in self-ID sampling by 5 to 10 per cent, I adjust the numbers to something closer to Gallup, although not all the way. I assume the possibility that Dems and Republicans are are represented about equally, just as a hedge.

Nate SIlver is a showman, but I don't believe past performance of any poll is a strong indicator of future accurate predictions, particularly if that poll takes 2008 as the norm and skews to replicate it. In that election there was high enthusiasm for O and low enthusiasm for McCain who ran as a liberal. Silver has exactly one good prediction in him so far, but I consider it largely a matter of luck.

Silver self-identifies as a supporter of Obama and I believe he is unable to see the bias creeping into his numbers. A perfect example would be Silver's treatment of two polls by PPP. In one Ohio poll showing Obama up by a point, 49–48, he weights the survey at 95%. An older survey showing Obama up by five is given a weighting of 116%. This is purely subjective when methodologies are identical.

In another poll he reweights a poll showing a 9 per cent advantage for Democrats because he feels it's skewed toward Republicans.

I call voodoo, not mathematics.

When you ask what my numbers are, are you referring to the Electoral College?


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> I'll concede that I would not bet on this election. MF is certain that Mitt's the man. We will see - Hopefully on Tuesday night.
> 
> Dewey wins!


I agree. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Silver puts it all on the line -

http://www.businessinsider.com/yes-nate-silver-is-betting-the-farm-2012-11

Will Romney trumpeters do the same? Unlikely.


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Silver puts it all on the line -
> 
> Yes, Nate Silver Is Betting The Farm - Business Insider
> 
> Will Romney trumpeters do the same? Unlikely.


Silver bet $1,000. That's hardly putting it "all on the line."


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> Silver bet $1,000. That's hardly putting it "all on the line."


More to the point if the article. His career is on the line.


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> More to the point if the article. His career is on the line.


He isn't _putting_ his career on the line. His career is based on one successful prediction. Unless he replicates it, it was always assumed he would be toast.


----------



## groovetube

So he's _putting_ his career on the line with this prediction!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> His career is based on one successful prediction.


Having correctly predicted the outcome of the 2008 presidential race is one successful prediction. Having correctly predicted the outcome of the Democratic primary before that is another. Having correctly predicted the outcomes of every single senate race in 2008 is a lot more. And having been far more accurate than anyone else publishing predictions about anything from hurricanes to baseball since then gives the guy a great deal of credibility.

But of course he could be wrong this time. If he is, he's going to loose a lot more than the $1000 he's publicly bet on the outcome... but then, if he's wrong, so will almost everyone else.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> ... but then, if he's wrong, so will almost everyone else.


Socialists will be sad, anyway.

Today's CNN poll shows the race tied. Check the methodology and 41% of respondents describe themselves as Democrats, and only 30% as Republicans. That skew is patently absurd.


----------



## bryanc

I find it interesting that Illinois, the state which was represented by Obama in the Senate, is a lock for Obama in this presidential race. Massachusetts, which of course has experienced the political leadership of Romney as its governor, is a lock for... Obama.

So the people who voted Romney in as their governor in the past, won't even consider voting for him again based on that experience. But clearly the vast majority of people who voted for Obama in the past, either for senator or for president, are happy to vote for him again. The vast majority of people who voted for the Republican last time will vote for the Republican this time because fundamentally most Americans are culturally programmed how to vote before they're able to walk, and they don't really think about it. But if there's any rational thought going into this process for any of them, the fact that the voters of Massachusetts are going to emphatically reject Romney, and the voters of Illinois are strongly supporting Obama should be considered.


----------



## groovetube

hah. I love it when the right tries to use the term socialist in regards to american politics. They seem to not know what actual socialism is.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> They seem to not know what actual socialism is.


Indeed; if they did, they'd realize that they _are_ socialists. As are most countries. The only questions are what industries are socialized, to what extent and using what mechanisms. These are good questions and the are lots of well-reasoned arguments to be considered, but there's nothing inherently wrong with government manipulation of the economy, nor is there anything inherently wrong with wealth redistribution; these are simply tools that can be used or abused, and we should be alert to smarmy politicians who clearly want to abuse the rules on behalf of their billionaire cronies.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I find it interesting that Illinois, the state which was represented by Obama in the Senate, is a lock for Obama in this presidential race. Massachusetts, which of course has experienced the political leadership of Romney as its governor, is a lock for... Obama.
> 
> So the people who voted Romney in as their governor in the past, won't even consider voting for him again based on that experience. But clearly the vast majority of people who voted for Obama in the past, either for senator or for president, are happy to vote for him again. The vast majority of people who voted for the Republican last time will vote for the Republican this time because fundamentally most Americans are culturally programmed how to vote before they're able to walk, and they don't really think about it. But if there's any rational thought going into this process for any of them, the fact that the voters of Massachusetts are going to emphatically reject Romney, and the voters of Illinois are strongly supporting Obama should be considered.


If you studied US politics, you would know that Illinois is a unique bastion of Democrat voters, both living and dead. Massachusetts on the other hand regularly goes Democrat federally. Romney's election as a Republican governor was an outlier. There's nothing more to it than that.


----------



## groovetube

Yet, even though Arkansas went republican in the 3 previous elections, it supported Clinton after he was governor there.

That argument is shaky at best. If Romney truly turned things around and was that great, Massachusetts could be a swing state.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Indeed; if they did, they'd realize that they _are_ socialists. As are most countries. The only questions are what industries are socialized, to what extent and using what mechanisms. These are good questions and the are lots of well-reasoned arguments to be considered, but there's nothing inherently wrong with government manipulation of the economy, nor is there anything inherently wrong with wealth redistribution; these are simply tools that can be used or abused, and we should be alert to smarmy politicians who clearly want to abuse the rules on behalf of their billionaire cronies.


Yes, there's something inherently wrong with wealth redistribution--it's theft.


----------



## groovetube

Yes, the top billionaires making the rules and tax policies to favour filling their pockets at the expense of the citizenry?

Absolutely agree, that sort of wealth distribution is theft.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Yes, there's something inherently wrong with wealth redistribution--it's theft.


By being a Canadian citizen you agree to abide by the laws of Canada, among which are our tax laws, which make it compulsory for you to pay a fraction of your income to the state to redistribute as it sees fit. In return, you get all the benefits of being a Canadian citizen. So this is not theft it is a mutually beneficial legal exchange of value for goods and services.

If you don't like being taxed, go start your own country and figure out how to run it without taxing the citizens. If you feel the benefits of being a Canadian citizen are not worth the taxes you pay for that privilege; move elsewhere. The citizens of Canada have overwhelmingly supported the redistribution of wealth in the forms of roads, health care, education, military, police, national parks, etc. etc. etc. and the vast majority of us like these things. Most of us don't like how a few of the very wealthy have found ways of using their wealth to rig the system such that they don't have to pay their share, and we're working on fixing that. If you're among those wealthy few, I don't think you'll find much sympathy from your fellow citizens if you claim you're being robbed when we raise your taxes.


----------



## Macfury

No, I was born here and grew into other people's agreements about taxation. Rather than leave this country I continue to support reforms that reduce taxation--which is theft.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> No, I was born here and grew into other people's agreements about taxation. Rather than leave this country I continue to support reforms that reduce taxation--which is theft.


Again, you're trying to redefine words that do not mean what you seem to think. This is simple logic:

A = B
C != B
Therefore A != C

Taxation is legal.
Theft is not legal.
Therefore taxation is not theft.

Clear?

I was born here and also born into other people's social conventions and legal agreements; it happens to everyone and it does nothing to release you from them. Be happy you weren't born into one of the Chinese labour camps Bain Capital outsourced all those jobs to.

We can and should argue about how we want to redistribute the wealth in Canada. But it is a given that wealth redistribution will continue; that's essentially the definition of an economy.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Yes, there's something inherently wrong with wealth redistribution--it's theft.


I'd argue that it's payment for services.

You may not use these services, and you may not want these services, but you are paying for them anyway.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> RCP only averages polls as presented--it treats them agnostically, I have simply been adjusting to Gallup's thorough analysis of voter makeup, which shows high Republican enthusiasm and party self identification favouring self-identified Republicans at 1 per cent above Democrats.
> 
> If I see a poll in which Democrats are favoured nationally in self-ID sampling by 5 to 10 per cent, I adjust the numbers to something closer to Gallup, although not all the way. I assume the possibility that Dems and Republicans are are represented about equally, just as a hedge.
> 
> Nate SIlver is a showman, but I don't believe past performance of any poll is a strong indicator of future accurate predictions, particularly if that poll takes 2008 as the norm and skews to replicate it. In that election there was high enthusiasm for O and low enthusiasm for McCain who ran as a liberal. Silver has exactly one good prediction in him so far, but I consider it largely a matter of luck.
> 
> Silver self-identifies as a supporter of Obama and I believe he is unable to see the bias creeping into his numbers. A perfect example would be Silver's treatment of two polls by PPP. In one Ohio poll showing Obama up by a point, 49–48, he weights the survey at 95%. An older survey showing Obama up by five is given a weighting of 116%. This is purely subjective when methodologies are identical.
> 
> In another poll he reweights a poll showing a 9 per cent advantage for Democrats because he feels it's skewed toward Republicans.
> 
> I call voodoo, not mathematics.
> 
> When you ask what my numbers are, are you referring to the Electoral College?


Others would disagree with your interpretation of Gallup's analysis. But it seems to me that you are saying that if a randomly-sampled poll is taken and the raw results show more of the respondents self-identified as Democrats than Republicans, you will believe that this cannot be true and adjust the numbers? I believe this is also the UnSkewed.com method. Don't believe the data you're getting, make it into something you can believe. No doubt about it, highly scientific.

Silver's had more than one good prediction and no one on the right seemed to mind when his model was the closest in forecasting the 2010 mid-term outcome. I guess his model was temporarily not voodoo then.

When I ask what your numbers are, I mean the numbers that correspond to the ones in the table I posted. 538, RCP and UnSkewed each posted what they think are the current polling averages for those 7 battleground states (Sunday numbers). You say yours are different, better than 538 and RCP, more modest than UnSkewed.com. So what are they? 

If your numbers are the gold standard, let's see them. So far you have only said your method is better, yet have declined to tell us what your method forecasts, other than vague assurances that Romney will win "handily".


----------



## bryanc

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> it seems to me that you are saying that if a randomly-sampled poll is taken and the raw results show more of the respondents self-identified as Democrats than Republicans, you will believe that this cannot be true and adjust the numbers? I believe this is also the UnSkewed.com method.


You are correct about this being 'unSkewed's method of skewing the data; that guy owes the internet a new irony meter.

I have seen some analysis making the case that Republican voters are less likely to self-identify as such on the phone to pollsters; frequently describing themselves as "independents" (especially in states that are not deeply red). I can certainly understand being ashamed of being associated with the republican party, but I don't know if I buy the contention that the Romney support is hiding in the "independents." It would, however, explain the consistent apparent underrepresentation of republicans in the polling data.

The difference between the popular vote and the likely electoral college outcome is almost certainly that support for Obama in blue states is luke warm, whereas support for Romney (or more accurately, irrational hatred of Obama) in the red states is very strong. So while I can see the president loosing the popular vote, I'm cautiously optimistic that 538 will be right again and he'll win the electoral college.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Again, you're trying to redefine words that do not mean what you seem to think. This is simple logic:
> 
> A = B
> C != B
> Therefore A != C
> 
> Taxation is legal.
> Theft is not legal.
> Therefore taxation is not theft.
> 
> Clear?
> 
> I was born here and also born into other people's social conventions and legal agreements; it happens to everyone and it does nothing to release you from them. Be happy you weren't born into one of the Chinese labour camps Bain Capital outsourced all those jobs to.
> 
> We can and should argue about how we want to redistribute the wealth in Canada. But it is a given that wealth redistribution will continue; that's essentially the definition of an economy.


It is theft legalized by custom, but not by morality.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> You may not use these services, and you may not want these services, but you are paying for them anyway.


Reminds me of the punks who come around and collect "protection" money.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> It is theft legalized by custom, but not by morality.


Many would argue that morality is defined by custom as well. As a consequentialist, I would not, but as a consequentialist I would also have to say that taxation is not inherently immoral (it's ethical status would be determined by it's consequences to society; it may well be that reducing taxes is immoral).

But unless you can make a moral argument that the social contract that defines modern society (which includes taxation) causes more harm than good, you're not going to be able to convince me that taxation is immoral any more than potluck dinners are immoral. Everyone brings something; some contribute more some contribute less, but everyone contributes and everyone shares the meal. If you don't like the potluck arrangement of Canada, you're free to argue and suggest alternatives, but suggesting that no one should contribute and everyone should just feed themselves is not a viable alternative; very few people are able to provide every facet of modern society for themselves, and those few who can do so are generally better off specializing at something and allowing others do do what they do better. In such a communal relationship, there will inevitably be jobs that need doing that do not generate profits, and others that generate more profits than are needed, so wealth redistribution is both necessary and beneficial for everyone.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Reminds me of the punks who come around and collect "protection" money.


As it should. The function of the state in policing society is exactly analogous to that of a protection racket. The only difference is we get to choose who the boss is, and we can elect someone else if they get too greedy. This is a small price to pay for freedom from the genuine low-lifes who would extort every cent from you, and then let other villains do as they liked with you. Because of this, and many other threats throughout history, people have formed societies, in which everyone contributes in taxes which pay for police to protect against criminals among other things. Just one of many examples of wealth redistribution in action.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> As it should. The function of the state in policing society is exactly analogous to that of a protection racket. The only difference is we get to choose who the boss is, and we can elect someone else if they get too greedy. This is a small price to pay for freedom from the genuine low-lifes who would extort every cent from you, and then let other villains do as they liked with you. Because of this, and many other threats throughout history, people have formed societies, in which everyone contributes in taxes which pay for police to protect against criminals among other things. Just one of many examples of wealth redistribution in action.


You see, bryanc, I am not afraid of the world as so many of you are. I don't need to pay the protection money because I don't fear the consequences of living a full life in freedom.


----------



## groovetube

If the thugs comment were actually the case, there must have been shrill outrage at the billion spent in 'protection money' for say, the G20 photo op for starters. Or the sprinkling of money for gazeboes, or hey! the massive number about to be spent on 'protection' by the new airforce jets.

But I'm not seeing much of any outrage though...

Funny when blind ideology meets the real world. It's never a pretty thing.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Others would disagree with your interpretation of Gallup's analysis. But it seems to me that you are saying that if a randomly-sampled poll is taken and the raw results show more of the respondents self-identified as Democrats than Republicans, you will believe that this cannot be true and adjust the numbers?


It's the opposite, Gratuitous. They take the actual number of respondents and their voter ID, then skew them to the expected voter turnout--based on 2008.

So if the raw results showed 35 Republican and 34 Democrat, they would change it to reflect their expectation of voter turnout--40 Democrat and 29 Republican for example, and adjust the weight of the response accordingly.

What's really at issue here is whether one believes the 2012 Democrat and Republican turnout will look exactly like 2008, and nothing like 2010.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> You see, bryanc, I am not afraid of the world as so many of you are. I don't need to pay the protection money because I don't fear the consequences of living a full life in freedom.


You do need to pay the protection money, because you are a citizen of Canada and you are therefore obligated to pay for the services of the police who protect us all. You and I may be fortunate enough to live in environments where violent crime is not common, but we must still pay for the protection of our fellow citizens. This, by the way, _*is*_ freedom. Unless you were the only person on earth, you cannot be completely free, and even then, you would still be ruled by the laws of physics and constraints of biology. So we can only have what freedoms are consistent with the needs and limitations of our society; taxation is one of those needs. So you are free to disagree with how the tax revenue is allocated (as do I), and free to try to get those priorities changed, but not free to refuse to pay.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The difference between the popular vote and the likely electoral college outcome is almost certainly that support for Obama in blue states is luke warm, whereas support for Romney (or more accurately, irrational hatred of Obama) in the red states is very strong.


Despising Obama's policies is perfectly rational.


----------



## Sonal

Macfury said:


> Reminds me of the punks who come around and collect "protection" money.


Or Rogers Cable.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You do need to pay the protection money, because you are a citizen of Canada and you are therefore obligated to pay for the services of the police who protect us all. You and I may be fortunate enough to live in environments where violent crime is not common, but we must still pay for the protection of our fellow citizens. This, by the way, _*is*_ freedom. Unless you were the only person on earth, you cannot be completely free, and even then, you would still be ruled by the laws of physics and constraints of biology. So we can only have what freedoms are consistent with the needs and limitations of our society; taxation is one of those needs. So you are free to disagree with how the tax revenue is allocated (as do I), and free to try to get those priorities changed, but not free to refuse to pay.


Thankfully, my level of freedom continues to grow as the security you desire diminishes.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Thankfully, my level of freedom continues to grow as the security you desire diminishes.


The security we are loosing is the confidence that our standards of living, and ultimately our food, water and air are sustainable. Whether you find that erosion disturbing or not is up to you. I'm curious as to what freedom you think you're gaining in exchange?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The security we are loosing is the confidence that our standards of living, and ultimately our food, water and air are sustainable. Whether you find that erosion disturbing or not is up to you. I'm curious as to what freedom you think you're gaining in exchange?


I am increasingly confident in our standard of living and the sustainability of the food, water and air.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Good timing Wolfy. Ya you're not the question. LOL!

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/w...or-mitt-romney/article4915634/?service=mobile


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> It's the opposite, Gratuitous. They take the actual number of respondents and their voter ID, then skew them to the expected voter turnout--based on 2008.
> 
> So if the raw results showed 35 Republican and 34 Democrat, they would change it to reflect their expectation of voter turnout--40 Democrat and 29 Republican for example, and adjust the weight of the response accordingly.
> 
> What's really at issue here is whether one believes the 2012 Democrat and Republican turnout will look exactly like 2008, and nothing like 2010.


Or so your conspiracy theory contends.

The question is, if your numbers are better than the ones I posted why won't you tell us what they are? Are you afraid that they'll be proven wrong?


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Nate SIlver is a showman...


A showman with the guts to post not only his predictions, which have been more accurate than anyone else who has done so over a comparable time frame, but also a detailed explanation of his methodology.

Do you have the guts to post yours? After such an in-depth analysis as you claim to have done, and with such apparent confidence in your conclusions that you claim to have bet significant money your (you must admit) unorthodox predictions, surely you're not too timid to post your numbers here so we can all marvel at your genius tomorrow.



> When you ask what my numbers are, are you referring to the Electoral College?


Yes. Let us all see the evidence of your genius.


----------



## CubaMark

*Harry Reid Was Right About Romney's Taxes. Who Is Going To Apologize First?*



> Remember when all the Republicans got outraged and called Harry Reid a "dirty liar" for saying that Mitt Romney hasn't paid taxes. Guess what, you GOP pearl clutchers?





> Using a tax shelter called a CRUT (charitable remainder unitrust) that was held by the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), Mitt Romney was able to pay zero taxes (legally) every single year from 1996 to 2009. Why did he stop in 2009? Because he would make public his 2010 tax return, that is why.


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Harry Reid Was Right About Romney's Taxes. Who Is Going To Apologize First?*
> 
> 
> 
> (Crooks & Liars)


Too late to make a difference, CM. The money goes to the Church if and only if Romney goes to heaven and has a special parking place. If not, he retains the trust money.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Too late to make a difference, CM. The money goes to the Church if and only if Romney goes to heaven and has a special parking place. If not, he retains the trust money.



:clap:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Crooks & Liars...


...got it wrong again. How much of Romney's income was derived from the CRUT? All of it? _Bloomberg _never says that Romney pays _no_ taxes, only that some of it was sheltered in the CRUT. Dingy Harry still needs to apologize. It's embarrassing what some sites will stoop to.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> A showman with the guts to post not only his predictions, which have been more accurate than anyone else who has done so over a comparable time frame, but also a detailed explanation of his methodology.



The guts to post his predictions publicly? His job is public polling.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Or so your conspiracy theory contends.
> 
> The question is, if your numbers are better than the ones I posted why won't you tell us what they are? Are you afraid that they'll be proven wrong?



It isn't a conspiracy theory. Never write off to conspiracy what incompetence, laziness or malfeasance will explain. I've only taken the numbers far enough to know that if the election were held today, it would ensure a decisive win for Romney. Beyond Obama's vanquishment, it doesn't much interest me by how much Romney wins,


----------



## MacDoc

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

calling Obama by a good amount in the Electoral vote

315 versus 222

and 51 versus 48 in popular vote.

:clap:


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> A showman with the guts to post not only his predictions, which have been more accurate than anyone else who has done so over a comparable time frame, but also a detailed explanation of his methodology.
> 
> Do you have the guts to post yours? After such an in-depth analysis as you claim to have done, and with such apparent confidence in your conclusions that you claim to have bet significant money your (you must admit) unorthodox predictions, surely you're not too timid to post your numbers here so we can all marvel at your genius tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Let us all see the evidence of your genius.


Small guess here. We aren't going to see a proper response. 

That 'T' word comes to mind.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> I've only taken the numbers far enough to know that if the election were held today, it would ensure a decisive win for Romney. Beyond Obama's vanquishment, it doesn't much interest me by how much Romney wins,


For someone who would have readers of this thread believe that all of the largest polling companies with their millions invested in scientists and research are incompetent, lazy, crooked and biased, and that previously accurate and respected statisticians are too dumb to know their own biases, you're spinning quite the tale with absolutely no reason for anyone to believe it.

You say that only you, working at home on your own, have the golden formula to unskew all their mistakes and biases to present the true result showing the opposite of what nearly everyone is saying, that Romney will score a decisive victory.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say, but you refuse to give us any. It should be understandable that based on your inability or refusal to provide the tiniest shred of supporting evidence a reasonable person might conclude that your claims are merely wishful thinking. Or just garden variety BS.

As I said earlier, your lack of specifics is telling.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say, but you refuse to give us any. It should be understandable that based on your inability or refusal to provide the tiniest shred of supporting evidence a reasonable person might conclude that your claims are merely wishful thinking. Or just garden variety BS.


Many reasonable people have come to the same conclusion. I've already explained how i calculate each poll. Not surprisingly, wherever I've mentioned the methodology to people as it refers to individual polls, I've only had one person take me up on downloading the bottom line data. There's no overarching "proof", because there is no conspiracy, just a consistent Democrat skew from poll to poll.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, today's the day. May the best man win. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

'many other people agree with me'. Probably the same people repeating the same stuff without any substance either, just stirring up threads on forums and blogs 

Yes G, today is the day. Will be an interesting ride.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> 'many other people agree with me'. Probably the same people repeating the same stuff without any substance either, just stirring up threads on forums and blogs
> 
> Yes G, today is the day. Will be an interesting ride.


Yes, we shall see. I am hoping for a Pres. Obama reelection, and even made a $100 bet with a friend of mine in the US. If I lose, my $100 goes to his local food bank, and if Pres. Obama wins, his $100 goes to the Food Sharing Association here in St.John's.


----------



## bryanc

I'm not going to post numbers for the EC vote, because I don't claim to have put significant thought into the likely outcomes of each race. I think OH will go Obama, and that'll pretty much seal the deal, but I do think it'll be close and I do think the popular vote will be almost perfectly split. I'd be happy to be wrong and observe a wave of rational thought sweeping Obama to a landslide victory, but I don't think that's likely.

However, it occurs to me that it is likely that the US will wind up with a republican dominated congress, and if Obama wins, he'll be in the same bind he's been in for the past 4 years; essentially handcuffed by an congress that cares more about discrediting and blocking any progress than what is actually good for the country. Furthermore, I predict that if congress remains dominated by republicans, they will move to impeach (on whatever fabricated charges they can spin up) the president shortly after he is reelected.

Historically, I've always thought both sides of the American political spectrum were equally dysfunctional, but it's no longer true; the republicans are absolutely inexcusable partisans who are far more concerned with gaining power than doing anything of value for their country.


----------



## eMacMan

It appears that the Mittser may have indeed paid for a ******* Loss. I mean how else could they lose to a 1 win 6 loss team at home?


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I'm not going to post numbers for the EC vote, because I don't claim to have put significant thought into the likely outcomes of each race. I think OH will go Obama, and that'll pretty much seal the deal, but I do think it'll be close and I do think the popular vote will be almost perfectly split. I'd be happy to be wrong and observe a wave of rational thought sweeping Obama to a landslide victory, but I don't think that's likely.
> 
> However, it occurs to me that it is likely that the US will wind up with a republican dominated congress, and if Obama wins, he'll be in the same bind he's been in for the past 4 years; essentially handcuffed by an congress that cares more about discrediting and blocking any progress than what is actually good for the country. Furthermore, I predict that if congress remains dominated by republicans, they will move to impeach (on whatever fabricated charges they can spin up) the president shortly after he is reelected.
> 
> Historically, I've always thought both sides of the American political spectrum were equally dysfunctional, but it's no longer true; the republicans are absolutely inexcusable partisans who are far more concerned with gaining power than doing anything of value for their country.


I would tend to agree with your speculations, bryanc, other than the impeachment procedures. I see the Tea Party as either having much more power should Romney get elected, and calling the shots in Congress, or fading somewhat should Pres. Obama get elected. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> It appears that the Mittser may have indeed paid for a ******* Loss. I mean how else could they lose to a 1 win 6 loss team at home?


No, that game was fair and square. I am only hoping for the same fairness in Florida and Ohio. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> It appears that the Mittser may have indeed paid for a ******* Loss. I mean how else could they lose to a 1 win 6 loss team at home?


I don't think everyone here probably knows the ******* Rule...


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't think everyone here probably knows the ******* Rule...


It's a rule with an exception, so it's not absolute. Either way, no matter who wins the GOP is done, I don't think they can ever recover from the in house split that their leaders have allowed to fester. This may signal the rise of a populace third party.

Dr. G, I am presuming you voted Democrat ( I'm not asking for confirmation ) but my question is, does living in Canada inform your decision more so than if you still lived in the U.S. I have a number of friends who are American who live here and they seem to vote Democrat...... I find this curious because they vote Conservative in our elections.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> It's a rule with an exception, so it's not absolute. Either way, no matter who wins the GOP is done, I don't think they can ever recover from the in house split that their leaders have allowed to fester.


On the contrary, the GOP has moved to a position far enough away from the Democrats that they have successfully realigned and redefined themselves.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> On the contrary, the GOP has moved to a position far enough away from the Democrats that they have successfully realigned and redefined themselves.


Dreamer! I'm glad your not running my election campaign, they are so fractured they have become part of the cultural lexicon for disfunctional. What I am seeing here is a huge turn out, if this were Canada I would think a change is coming...... I still think that Romney will win, and to me that will be sad. I would much rather have the slow and sustained recovery than temporary swings I think his policy will drive.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Dreamer! I'm glad your not running my election campaign, they are so fractured they have become part of the cultural lexicon for disfunctional. .


They have become part of your personal lexicon for dysfunctional! They are having an open and honest debate about the future of the party and that will be good for them.



Rps said:


> I would much rather have the slow and sustained recovery than temporary swings I think his policy will drive.


Obama has certainly delivered on the "slow" part.


----------



## Rps

Macfury;1230239 They are having an open and honest debate about the future of the party and that will be good for them.
[/QUOTE said:


> So you agree they are fractured and dysfunctional.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> So you agree they are fractured and dysfunctional.


Both parties are torn, but the Democrats have an even worse problem because the poles in their tent are diametrically opposed, rather than the orthogonal fight the Republicans have to deal with.

The Republicans are torn between the interests of the wealthy and the social conservatives. There is no inherent conflict between these groups; as long as the rich get richer, the churchy types can oppress the ignorant proles as much as they like (as everyone knows, oppressive rules don't apply to the rich).

The Democrats are torn between the interests of the wealthy and the social progressives. These interests are diametrically opposed, because the social progressives want to level the playing feild that favours the rich. This has driven some of the wealthy support to the Republicans, making it easier for them to raise money.

But it is worth noting that both main parties are serving the interests of the rich; it's just that this is more true for the Republicans than it is for the Democrats.


----------



## Rps

Partially agree bryanc. I think the Dems are in a better position to represent the mass, but the issue is I really think they weren't all that sold on Obama as Prez and that worked against his first ( and maybe only ) term. The GOP so wanted to be loved that it aligned itself, as you note, with two very strong groups ( politically ) the perception of the wealthy and the RR. One of the things that I find amazing and quite worrisome is the strength of the RR ( religious right ) in the U.S. They are so ideologically driven that I can't see how the GOP will survive if they don't follow along.....so some extent the GOP is now very much like the NDP in their early stages, trying to align with multiple, often opposing, agenda...... I don't see them surviving unless there is a break and redefinition.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> So you agree they are fractured and dysfunctional.


When did I say they were dysfunctional or fractured? That's wish fulfillment on the part of Democrats who demand the residents of their big tent toe the party line. Republicans are discussing their positioning and it has worked out well for them.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> I think the Dems are in a better position to represent the mass, but the issue is I really think they weren't all that sold on Obama as Prez


I completely agree with you here. Obama has been a mediocre president at best. And I think the Democratic party is conflicted because it is continuously struggling with balancing the interests of the powerful wealthy elite against what are clearly the interests of the nation. This conflict/balance is what I think makes them both far better at governing and far more vulnerable politically.



> One of the things that I find amazing and quite worrisome is the strength of the RR ( religious right ) in the U.S. They are so ideologically driven that I can't see how the GOP will survive if they don't follow along.


Again I agree. The difference here is that the RR is not making demands that are in opposition to the demands of the wealthy elite; so the Republicans don't really have an internal conflict. The conflict they have is with reality; tax cuts for the rich don't help the economy and the demands for of the RR are simply insane. Republicans my suffer from cognitive dissonance when they accidentally hear something from outside their Fox news echo chamber, but as long as they only talk to each other, they're fine.


----------



## Rps

Macfury;1230250 Republicans are discussing their positioning and it has worked out well for them.[/QUOTE said:


> The true test of this will be the next mid-terms and not this election. We'll see how well they do on their visioning. My guess, in two years a Demo house. If it's GOP then you were right.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think the Dems are in a better position to represent the mass, ....


I would agree, but with the proviso that we're talking about the people on the public dole.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Republicans are discussing their positioning and it has worked out well for them.


I agree that the Republicans have less internal conflict about their party's positions. We will see if it works out for them or if Americans choose to deal with reality.

If the Republicans loose badly today, they may consider shaking off some of their more egregiously anti-reality positions, which will anger the religious right and the climate change deniers, but where are those votes going to go anyway? So doing so probably won't hurt them politically. If they loose, I think we'll see the Republicans starting to shift back to the centre, becoming more open to reason and evidence, and operating less on faith and "gut feelings." If they win, all bets are off; they clearly have become completely divorced from reality over the past decade and if that actually wins them elections, it's going to be full-on crazy season.


----------



## Rps

bryanc +1, But I also think there is a movement in the U.S. for a 3rd populace party......not sure where its leaning reside but if I were a betting man I think they need a true progressive conservative government, one with a social conscience but with an understanding of what's reasonable to pay for the programmes. Neither Dems nor GOP think that way now, nor will they think that way in the future, I think the seeds are sown for a new party to rise.


----------



## Rps

I, again, draw your attention to the turn out so far, it appears to be record in some areas, historically the sign of a change.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Many reasonable people have come to the same conclusion. I've already explained how i calculate each poll. Not surprisingly, wherever I've mentioned the methodology to people as it refers to individual polls, I've only had one person take me up on downloading the bottom line data. There's no overarching "proof", because there is no conspiracy, just a consistent Democrat skew from poll to poll.


Again, your refusal to show the numbers you've arrived at indicates that either you have none or you have no confidence in them. Expecting anyone to believe your analysis of the polls based on your hunch is silly.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






A video from this morning in Penn. showing an electronic voting machine deciding for itself what the vote should be. The poll worker refused to do anything about it.

Here's the explanation on Reddit.com by the person who took the video:



> I'm the guy who shot the video, hopefully this doesn't get burried. You guys have questions, I have answers.
> My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.
> 
> I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.
> 
> I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.
> 
> EDIT: There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the ****ty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.
> 
> EDIT2: I have been contacted by NBC Universal and BBC News.
> 
> EDIT3: A lot of news agencies are now messaging me here. Please email [email protected] instead.


----------



## CubaMark

Are those the machines owned by the company that's run by one of Romney's sons? (Pretty much a rhetorical question...)


----------



## Macfury

Guilford Co. voters say ballot cast for Romney came up Obama on machine | MyFOX8.com

As noted, when this happens to Republicans they recognize it as a glitch. When it happens to Democrats, it's a conspiracy.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Again, your refusal to show the numbers you've arrived at indicates that either you have none or you have no confidence in them. Expecting anyone to believe your analysis of the polls based on your hunch is silly.


I explained how I calculate the polls already. Why do you says I'm refusing?


----------



## SINC

Seems to me that this whole thing has been one big campaign in the ass.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

CubaMark said:


> Are those the machines owned by the company that's run by one of Romney's sons? (Pretty much a rhetorical question...)


I don't know but the I'm sure someone has asked and answered the question on the massive Reddit.com thread about (currently 1st position on Reddit front page).

I don't know whether this could be chalked up to conspiracy or crappy voting machines but regardless, the state of elections in the US is an effin' disgrace. Partisan election officials trying to suppress the vote, people waiting 8 hours in the weather to vote, using unverifiable electronic voting machines with no paper trail -- it's reminiscent of a 3rd rate dictatorship, not a country that purports to be the "World's Greatest Democracy".


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> I explained how I calculate the polls already. Why do you says I'm refusing?


Who cares? You've told us you are adjusting the polling results based on an unverified theory. Fine. You've claimed that this theory means that Romney was leading in the polls. Fine. You criticized others who have put out their analysis of the polls with their numbers but haven't shown what your analysis actually says in terms of your adjust poll numbers. You want the readers of this thread to buy a pig in a poke.

If you done the analysis, as you've claimed, it should be a simple thing to copy and paste the numbers from your spreadsheet to lend some believability to your analysis. Yet you squirmed every which way to avoid doing that. The leads me to believe you either haven't done the analysis that you've said you've done or you are afraid that your analysis will be shown to be way off later today when the results are in.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Who cares? You've told us you are adjusting the polling results based on an unverified theory. Fine. You've claimed that this theory means that Romney was leading in the polls. Fine. You criticized others who have put out their analysis of the polls with their numbers but haven't shown what your analysis actually says in terms of your adjust poll numbers. You want the readers of this thread to buy a pig in a poke.
> 
> If you done the analysis, as you've claimed, it should be a simple thing to copy and paste the numbers from your spreadsheet to lend some believability to your analysis. Yet you squirmed every which way to avoid doing that. The leads me to believe you either haven't done the analysis that you've said you've done or you are afraid that your analysis will be shown to be way off later today when the results are in.


I don't want you to buy my theory at all. I don't much care who buys it. As I said, my method has been to assume that instead of Republicans out-identifying Democrats by one per cent, I will use a more moderate number and place them at one per cent less. If I see a poll in which Democrats are assumed to outnumber Republicans by a particular margin, I adjust the outcome to reflect that. I never claimed to have compiled any sort of database or spreadsheet. I performed the calculations poll by poll because I wanted to satisfy myself that the Democrats were going to lose.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, all the polls are now behind us ................ so why not focus upon the actual election? Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I don't know whether this could be chalked up to conspiracy or crappy voting machines but regardless, the state of elections in the US is an effin' disgrace. Partisan election officials trying to suppress the vote, people waiting 8 hours in the weather to vote, using unverifiable electronic voting machines with no paper trail ....


Here's a paper trail:

Philly Activist Group Shreds GOP Voter Registrations


----------



## Macfury

Philly GOP: Poll inspectors being ousted for Dems | WashingtonExaminer.com

Claims increase of machines switching votes in Ohio, other battlegrounds | Fox News


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I explained how I calculate the polls already. Why do you says I'm refusing?


What are your numbers? What do you mean by "a more moderate number"? Your explanations don't allow us to understand what you're actually predicting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Calmness spreads over ehMacLand ............... as we all pause to let the fact that today is election day in the US sink in .................... and as we reflect, let us give thanks to all those who sacrificed so that we here in Canada have the freedom of thought and expression ... and the vote ... Paix, mes amis.

okanokumo - YouTube


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Calmness spreads over ehMacLand ............... as we all pause to let the fact that today is election day in the US sink in .................... and as we reflect, let us give thanks to all those who sacrificed so that we here in Canada have the freedom of thought and expression ... and the vote ... Paix, mes amis.


Sadly, we can't vote in US elections, which have as much bearing on our lives as the Canadian elections.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Sadly, we can't vote in US elections, which have as much bearing on our lives as the Canadian elections.


True ........... but then let us give thanks to all those in the US and here in Canada that gave "their last full measure of devotion" so that we could all vote somewhere in a democratic election ........... regardless of the outcome. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> What are your numbers? What do you mean by "a more moderate number"? Your explanations don't allow us to understand what you're actually predicting.


It's been shown that self-identifying Republican voters outnumber self-identifying Democrat voters this election cycle by as little as one and as many as 6.5 per cent. I am making a very modest assumption that Republicans will turn out in numbers one per cent fewer than Democrats.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> ...let us give thanks to all those in the US and here in Canada that gave "their last full measure of devotion" so that we could all vote somewhere in a democratic election ........... regardless of the outcome. Paix, mon ami.


Absolutely. It's an amazing thing that one group of people will leave the halls of power and hand over the keys to the next without a fight or a revolution.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Absolutely. It's an amazing thing that one group of people will leave the halls of power and hand over the keys to the next without a fight or a revolution.


True. This is one main reason why I hope that we have a clear winner in the US presidential election today. I don't mind the Supreme Court ruling on constitutional matter, or Congress crafting laws, but I don't want to see either involved in selecting a president and vice president. That should be in the hands of people. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

What presidential election ads used to be like:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Interesting use of Facebook:

America Votes 2012


----------



## Macfury

That's it! After seeing that ad,I want to vote Republican.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bobby Kennedy's Speech for Humanity - YouTube

Still relevant today. One may only speculate what America would have been like had he run for president in 1968 .......... and had won. Such is Life.

Robert Kennedy would have made a great president had he the chance to undertake this task.

RFK - Final Journey - YouTube

Eulogy of Bobby Kennedy - YouTube


----------



## Rps

Open question here: We are in an election year of a first term President, on election day he is flying to his home state to vote and the plane crashes, all are lost.....so, what happens: technically there would not be a President Elect, and the VP's term would be over in Jan. I couldn't find the answer to this as it only seemed to cover the President Elect and it was after the election.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's it! After seeing that ad,I want to vote Republican.


daisy girl - YouTube


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

#elections2012 on Twitter is keeping me well entertained today.


----------



## Dr.G.

"... no matter how bad the storm gets, no matter how tough times are, we're all in this together." Pres. Barack Obama at his last rally last night in Iowa.

Very true .......... :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## fjnmusic

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Interesting use of Facebook:
> 
> America Votes 2012


Pretty bizarre. Interesting to note how all the ripples are blue, just like……Facebook.


----------



## MacDoc

Best ad yet and Romney cannot counter in any manner.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Best ad yet and Romney cannot counter in any manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


A fine clip ............... just a bit late, however.  Wall Street has selected a Romney victory with a triple-digit gain (so far) in the NY Stock Market. So, now all we can do is wait for Fox News to declare a Romney/Ryan victory before CNN. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Best ad yet and Romney cannot counter in any manner.


Of course he can counter it. The FEMA effort in the Northeast is a disaster. Obama flew in for some photo ops, but seems to have made no tangible difference in the poor service these citizens are getting.


----------



## groovetube

And here I thought their lives were their own.


----------



## margarok

I'm here in red-state Oklahoma! I voted today and am really hoping I voted for the "new" county sheriff. Otherwise, the votes I made are for people who may or may not make a difference and I can't control that. I can, however, control how I spend my night. I borrowed the game below from ZeroHedge (there are other election night drinking games, but they were way too complex for me.)

_While some believe tonight is critical to the future of our nation - and well could be - we believe some will need placating as the results roll across the bottom of their screens and are manipulated in an ever-increasing multitude of 10-dimensional holographic charts that we fully expect to work incorrectly at some point. To fulfil that 'need for numbing', we have found three drinking games of varying suspected quantity that we hope will prove useful. From simple and stand-alone, to team-based and punish-your-friends focused, we believe there is a fair-and-balanced approach here for everyone.

Can be done alone; standard drink til you stink approach...

Drink if someone manipulates a giant touch-screen map. 
Drink if you see a hologram. Drink again if someone is talking to it. 
Drink for any sighting of a panel of undecided voters. 
Any time there is a split screen, drink for as many seconds as there are pundits onscreen. 
Drink when the anchor awkwardly stalls for time. I’m looking at you, Wolf Blitzer. 
Drink any time an election in your home state comes up on the crawl. 
Drink any time an election is “still too close to call.” 
Drink for any election result where a candidate gets more than 70 percent of the vote. 
Drink any time “exit polls are showing” something. 
Drink when an anchor or pundit is visibly bummed out about election results. 
Take your friend’s drink if he or she is visibly bummed out about election results. 
Finish your drink when results are official in your home state. 
Finish your drink when one of the presidential candidates wins Ohio. It’s the only state that really counts. 
Finish your drink if someone you voted for wins. 
Finish your drink and take a shot if your candidate loses. It’s going to be a long four years._


----------



## margarok

Well, the county sheriff was re-elected, so I'm calling it a night. Fire or ice; either will suffice.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> Well, the county sheriff was re-elected, so I'm calling it a night. Fire or ice; either will suffice.


Kudos, margarok. Hopefully, when you wake up tomorrow morning, Pres. Obama shall be the President of the US. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Johnaon, Stein and Barr may be the difference in Florida to a Romney win. We shall see.


----------



## jimbotelecom

I don't trust these SKEWED results.


----------



## MacDoc

It's all over ....just tying up the loose ends. :clap:
Jeb Bush acknowledged Florida is gone and New Mexico is gone.


----------



## MacGuiver

I agree. It looks like 4 more years for Obama.


----------



## MacDoc

NBC just had the balls the call the election for Obama! wow that's early call but certainly correct.

CNN right now as well.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> NBC just had the balls the call the election for Obama! wow that's early call but certainly correct.
> 
> CNN right now as well.


AT 12:48AM here in St.John's, CNN projected that Pres. Obama will win his reelection. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Oh, oh ............................ someone is going to have to dine on crow today. I wonder who????? Luckily, there is no way to spin the results of this election.


----------



## groovetube

Well looks like the furious masterful poll methodologies failed. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Though I guess we never were, treated to what they actually were... :heybaby:


----------



## fjnmusic

275 electoral college votes for Obama, only 270 needed. It is done.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Mitts dead in O Hi O

Now we'll have to put up with endless put downs of the U.S. electorate by skewed observers.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Oh, oh ............................ someone is going to have to dine on crow today. I wonder who????? Luckily, there is no way to spin the results of this election.


Oh we'll hear something about how the moderate swing doomed him. Even though said swing was actually what gave Romney a chance.

I noticed that both of the religious lunatic senators were handily tossed. :clap:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!


*Dinner is served, MacFury...*


----------



## i-rui

Zombie apocalypse averted.


----------



## Sonal

groovetube said:


> I noticed that both of the religious lunatic senators were handily tossed. :clap:


Yep.

When faced with legitimate lunatics, we have ways of shutting them down.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Yep.
> 
> When faced with legitimate lunatics, we have ways of shutting them down.


ha ha yeah, I've seen versions of that joke on the facebook.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

CubaMark said:


> *Dinner is served, MacFury...*


Just choke it down, MF.


----------



## jimbotelecom

The Fox crew are spouting that Obama has no mandate. The GOP is toast.


----------



## Sonal

Nate Silver's results compared with actual results (so far.)

https://twitter.com/cosentino/status/266042007758200832/photo/1


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> If I see a poll in which Democrats are favoured nationally in self-ID sampling by 5 to 10 per cent, I adjust the numbers to something closer to Gallup, although not all the way. I assume the possibility that Dems and Republicans are are represented about equally, just as a hedge.
> 
> *Nate SIlver is a showman, but I don't believe past performance of any poll is a strong indicator of future accurate predictions,* particularly if that poll takes 2008 as the norm and skews to replicate it. In that election there was high enthusiasm for O and low enthusiasm for McCain who ran as a liberal. *Silver has exactly one good prediction in him so far, but I consider it largely a matter of luck.*
> 
> Silver self-identifies as a supporter of Obama and I believe *he is unable to see the bias creeping into his numbers.* A perfect example would be Silver's treatment of two polls by PPP. In one Ohio poll showing Obama up by a point, 49–48, he weights the survey at 95%. An older survey showing Obama up by five is given a weighting of 116%. This is purely subjective when methodologies are identical.
> 
> In another poll he reweights a poll showing a 9 per cent advantage for Democrats because he feels it's skewed toward Republicans.
> 
> *I call voodoo, not mathematics.*


Looks like the "biased voodoo math" was almost dead on.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Looks like the "biased voodoo math" was almost dead on.


Nate did a better job than I did. Looks like the U.S. had collective last minute buyer's remorse.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Nate did a better job than I did. Looks like the U.S. had collective last minute buyer's remorse.


Looks like Nate Silver added another feather to his cap and did a hell of a lot better than everyone in his analysis of the polling data. The theory that Dems were oversampled purported by the right and MF has been shown to be wishful thinking as predicted and nothing more than an example of the bias they were claiming Silver had.










I updated the table I posted here a few days ago.

Real Clear Politics (RCP) final poll averages barely changed from the day previous.

MF? Well ... we'll never know what he predicted other than a decisive Romney victory. Slightly off the mark.

Interestingly, the UnSkewed Polls.com guy backed well down from high Romney numbers of the day before and his final numbers even allowed that Obama would win a couple of the battle ground states. The UnSkewed guy appears to have left his various blogs hanging at some point earlier this evening. Nothing has been updated and they still are all full of now embarrassing sure-fire predictions of Democratic doom. I guess when he saw what was happening this evening he shut down his computer and took off to his local bar.

Nate Silver at 538 upped his final numbers for Obama on the final day, even calling for a very tight win for the President in Florida. But outside of Ohio he was too conservative in his prediction and Obama has bested the poll numbers.

Outside of the fact that Americans stepped back from the precipice of handing the keys to the White House over to that half-baked BS artist Romney, I'm quite happy to see that 2 states passed initiatives intending on legalizing marijuana for adults (Colorado and Washington) and 2 states passed initiatives in favour of gay marriage (Maine and Maryland). Could a modicum of sanity and common sense actually be taking hold south of the border?


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Oh we'll hear something about how the moderate swing doomed him. Even though said swing was actually what gave Romney a chance.
> 
> I noticed that both of the religious lunatic senators were handily tossed. :clap:


I agree, gt. Hopefully, the Republican Party will realize that a swing to the hard right is not helpful for their cause. We shall see.


----------



## i-rui

the folks @ fox and friends don't look very happy...










meanwhile the Donald was just losing it on twitter....










stay classy trump!


----------



## Dr.G.

"Don't worry, Dr. G! I believe Romney will score a decisive victory!" Well, not as decisive as I would have liked, but I too predicted a possible Romney victory. I should have believed in Hope over my fears that America would turn on Pres. Obama. So, I guess I have to sit down with Macfury his dining of crow ............... but I will gladly do so with a smile on my face. I did not figure on Pres. Obama taking Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia AND maybe Florida.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney's running mate will return to Washington in January even though the Republican presidential nominee and Paul Ryan lost their bid for the White House. 

Wisconsin law allows Ryan to serve as his party's vice presidential nominee and also run at the same time for an eighth term in the House.


----------



## Dr.G.

For the first time in political history, an all-female delegation will serve in the U.S. Congress.

New Hampshire's two House seats went to Democrats Ann McLane Kuster and former Rep. Carol Shea-Porter.

Republican Kelly Ayotte and Democrat Jeanne Shaheen already serve in the Senate. 

Meanwhile, Democrat Maggie Hassan won the state's governor's race against Republican challenger Ovide Lamontagne. 

With the two female House victories, New Hampshire voters sent both of its Republican male congressmen packing.


----------



## Dr.G.

Cool, a true man of the people. Totally unscripted.

Biden gives 17-year-old exclusive ride – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Democrat Elizabeth Warren, a Harvard law professor and bankruptcy expert who has spent her career documenting the decline of middle-class America, won the hotly contested Senate race in Massachusetts on Tuesday night, defeating Republican incumbent Scott Brown and reclaiming the seat held for decades by liberal icon Edward M. Kennedy.

Warren, who rose to national prominence as chair of the congressional panel overseeing the 2008 Wall Street bailout, is the first woman to be elected U.S. senator from Massachusetts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just got this email from the President. Nice that he remembered "Newfoundlanders and Labradorians for Obama". 

"Marc --

I'm about to go speak to the crowd here in Chicago,
but I wanted to thank you first.

I want you to know that this wasn't fate, and it wasn't
an accident. You made this happen.

You organized yourselves block by block. You took
ownership of this campaign five and ten dollars at a time.
And when it wasn't easy, you pressed forward.

I will spend the rest of my presidency honoring your support,
and doing what I can to finish what we started.

But I want you to take real pride, as I do, in how we got
the chance in the first place.

Today is the clearest proof yet that, against the odds, ordinary
Americans can overcome powerful interests.

There's a lot more work to do.

But for right now: Thank you.

Barack"


----------



## BigDL

*Finally a definitive answer...SEE*

Patients pays off. The definitive poll has been released. Dr. G was correct, the other guy horribly wrong.

Oh by the way Dr.G. did you ever receive a definitive answer to "what would you do in the first 100 days to guide the economy" from the other guy?

I check in periodically in this thread but may have missed the response to your query. Any update on that matter would be appreciated.

Thanks 

Cheers
Dana


----------



## Macfury

I feel for Barack Obama. He's inherited a terrible mess from the guy who has run things for the last four years.


----------



## bryanc

It's certainly not going to be easy, but it's much better than what he inherited last time. I predict the US economy will continue to improve over the next 4 years, and in 2016 the Democrats will win again. I'm less confident predicting who'll be the Democratic candidate, but I'm thinking Hillary Clinton will get the nod.

I have to say, Fox News was comedy gold last night


----------



## jimbotelecom

bryanc said:


> It's certainly not going to be easy, but it's much better than what he inherited last time. I predict the US economy will continue to improve over the next 4 years, and in 2016 the Democrats will win again. I'm less confident predicting who'll be the Democratic candidate, but I'm thinking Hillary Clinton will get the nod.
> 
> I have to say, Fox News was comedy gold last night


I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!

The republicans have to build and it will take a decade. Worst case scenario is you get new parties developing and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Fox was the news to watch last night - from frothing at the mouth lusting for power to complete depression in only an hour! That was the best broadcasting I've seen ever. And the apologists afterward! Krauthammer!

The jewish vote went 70% to Obama - deal with that Netenyahoo!

Unreal night. Lots of good.


----------



## groovetube

jimbotelecom said:


> I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!
> 
> The republicans have to build and it will take a decade. Worst case scenario is you get new parties developing and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> Fox was the news to watch last night - from frothing at the mouth lusting for power to complete depression in only an hour! That was the best broadcasting I've seen ever. And the apologists afterward! Krauthammer!
> 
> The jewish vote went 70% to Obama - deal with that Netenyahoo!
> 
> Unreal night. Lots of good.


I missed that entirely. Though after a few hours of CNN I wanted to go flog myself. 

Bryanc, I agree. Obama is starting this 4 years in a much better place than when he took it.

Unlike the republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> Patients pays off. The definitive poll has been released. Dr. G was correct, the other guy horribly wrong.
> 
> Oh by the way Dr.G. did you ever receive a definitive answer to "what would you do in the first 100 days to guide the economy" from the other guy?
> 
> I check in periodically in this thread but may have missed the response to your query. Any update on that matter would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Cheers
> Dana


Patients in the US pay for their own medical care, but patience pays off if you are patient enough to wait for something.

No, I never got an answer from Macfury. Maybe he would approve of what FDR did or what Pres. Obama did in his first 100 days. Maybe not. Still, I think we should play fairly with Macfury, since this loss must have been a crushing blow to his hopes of seeing only one term for Pres. Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I feel for Barack Obama. He's inherited a terrible mess from the guy who has run things for the last four years.


Folks, I think that someone is impersonating Macfury, either that, or he has taken leave of his senses.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> It's certainly not going to be easy, but it's much better than what he inherited last time. I predict the US economy will continue to improve over the next 4 years, and in 2016 the Democrats will win again. I'm less confident predicting who'll be the Democratic candidate, but I'm thinking Hillary Clinton will get the nod.
> 
> I have to say, Fox News was comedy gold last night


An interesting speculation, bryanc. I was saying the same thing to my wife last night. Biden might want it in 2016, but if HC is out of this administration sometime next year, she is able to lay the foundation for a real run at the presidency regardless of what happens to the second term Obama administration. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nate did a better job than I did. Looks like the U.S. had collective last minute buyer's remorse.





Macfury said:


> I feel for Barack Obama. He's inherited a terrible mess from the guy who has run things for the last four years.


No, this can't be the real Macfury. I have sent a PM to various administrators to inform them that someone has hacked into his account. Or, maybe he has seen the light and had chosen to come over to play on our side??? We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Morning all: Did you see the pundit trying to have Fox recall the Ohio prediction....was to laugh. I watched Fox ( had to, I like train wrecks ) ABC, NBC, CBS......hands down CBS coverage was the fairest in my estimation and, typically, the most conservative. I was pleased with the outcome for Prez, but I see they are in the same boat as before,,,,,,,I'm wondering if this is a checks and balances thing....."we like you Obama but not enough"....should be fun..... first order of business is replacing Ms. Clinton followed by nominating Romney as Secty of Industry...............


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Nate did a better job than I did.


Nate did better than _everybody_... yet again. Perhaps it's time for the pundits to consider adopting his objective methodology rather than their partisan beliefs.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Nate did better than _everybody_... yet again. Perhaps it's time for the pundits to consider adopting his objective methodology rather than their partisan beliefs.


I'm not sure its actually a methodology. It looks like personal weighting of inputs is a large part of the method, which would make him a better consultant than a supplier of methodology. Clients of has-beens like Michael Barone and Dick Morris should certainly get their money back--and they should use it to hire people like Silver.


----------



## i-rui

well at least Mitt Romney seemed to have taken the loss rather well .....





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Rps

bryanc said:


> Nate did better than _everybody_... yet again. Perhaps it's time for the pundits to consider adopting his objective methodology rather than their partisan beliefs.


bryanc, I agree. The success of polling lies with who you poll and how you interpret. Having been involved with some of this, it's very important to know who you are contacting and trying to reach or else your method will wind up with a Dewey Wins! I think much of that has happened here.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> well at least Mitt Romney seemed to have taken the loss rather well .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:lmao:


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure its actually a methodology. It looks like personal weighting of inputs is a large part of the method, which would make him a better consultant than a supplier of methodology. Clients of has-beens like Michael Barone and Dick Morris should certainly get their money back--and they should use it to hire people like Silver.


At least Dick Morris offered a mea culpa on his website. Some of the people who got it spectacularly wrong has gone missing, such as the unskewed polling guy on all his various web sites. Sometime yesterday afternoon he disappeared and left all his frequently updated right-wing news sites in a state of celebrating the coming Romney landslide. It's kind of eerie. Did the black helicopters swoop down and spirit him away? Or is he just in the middle of a long tear-filled bender?










But seriously MF I don't believe that Silver's weighting of data is personal. He's an accomplished statistician who has been shown to be correct whether the polls have gone for or against the Dems. Although he says up front he is personally a liberal, he doesn't let that get in the way of his analysis, like so many others did on either side of the political spectrum.

He very much relies on being able to determine if the data is reliable or not and his weighting is based on his detailed knowledge of what makes the data tick. As he said a few days before the election, all of the polls would have to be systematically biased against Romney for his analysis to be off by much. Some can of course be wrong, but given the massive supply of US polling available and his ability to assess its likelihood of being untrustworthy, his analysis prevailed. 

But even just a simple poll averaging, such as RCP did, shows that for the most part, and with hundreds and hundreds of separate polls to work with, the polling data was for the most part pretty close.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

i-rui said:


> well at least Mitt Romney seemed to have taken the loss rather well .....


That was pretty good. :clap:



> He's still horse-ridin', company-aquirin', income-hidin', employee-firin', luxury-yacht-buyin' riiiiiich!


----------



## Dr.G.

Post-election night slump, much like the day after my SF Giants won the World Series. I can hardly keep my eyes open. Still, the Giants won, as did Pres. Obama, so all is well with the world for now.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just rewatched the speeches given last night by Pres. Obama (he looks exhaused but proud) and Romney (who looked really beaten and down). Still, both took the high road and did not take shots at the other candidate.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Remember when ................


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> But even just a simple poll averaging, such as RCP did, shows that for the most part, and with hundreds and hundreds of separate polls to work with, the polling data was for the most part pretty close.


What eventually threw me was the lack of Republican turnout--fewer than for McCain. Even though more people self-identified as Republican than Democrat and expressed a great zeal for voting, they simply did not vote. Neither did Dems in great numbers, but their drop-off was more manageable.

The RCP average was + 0.7 for Obama--not close. However, the average was not a prediction but a rolling average of rolling averages over about 10 days.

UnSkewed Polls:

'Unskewed' Pollster Dean Chambers: 'Nate Silver Was Right' - Business Insider


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News has just declared that the US government had access to a secret documents that gave them the key to victory. They want the case sent to the Supreme Court to overturn the victory by Pres. Obama. That secret document ....................................the US Census. Seems that the population of middle-aged white males is in decline.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, as previously posted, after Tuesday's election results came in, real estate mogul and reality TV star Donald Trump called for "revolution!" and urged his 1.8 million Twitter followers to "march on Washington and stop this travesty."

He further called on them to "fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice," while proclaiming the country was now in "serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before." Trump has since deleted the revolution missive.

Sadly, Immigration Canada has been flooded with requests from Americans to move to Canada. Said one person who was in the Canadian Consulate in New York City, "I want to go to a conservative country and get away from Obama's socialist policies like socialized health care and those stupid Democratic Party robocalls."


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting, but the Romney/Ryan ticket did not win the states where each person was born, or where Romney and Ryan held/holds office (i.e., Michigan, Mass. and Wisconsin).


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting, but the Romney/Ryan ticket did not win the states where each person was born, or where Romney and Ryan held/holds office (i.e., Michigan, Mass. and Wisconsin).


Obama did not win the country in which he was born either!


----------



## groovetube

Hawaii? I thought that went democrat.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## margarok

jimbotelecom said:


> I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay... I have had a couple too many glasses of wine and have to pipe up here. I was one of the original Tea Party participants here in flyover country Oklahoma USA. We were non-partisan and all about demanding the Federal government recognize our individual rights...
> 
> While I realize the Republicans managed to "coopt" the leadership by doing what politicans do best (bribe and threaten), those of us who stood waving flags in the heat/cold/wind/rain to rage against being sold out continue to believe that what we tried to do was worth it.
> 
> Don't call me a tea bagger... My father spent 3 and 1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp and told me that standing up for what you believe in will define your life. I may be a "girl" but I'm a Missouri corn fed farm girl and if you call me a tea bagger again, I will have to come up there and kick your butt.
> 
> Now... I didn't give a crap which one of Obama/Romney won. I wanted a different county sheriff. I lost. Now I gotta move.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> jimbotelecom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay... I have had a couple too many glasses of wine and have to pipe up here. I was one of the original Tea Party participants here in flyover country Oklahoma USA. We were non-partisan and all about demanding the Federal government recognize our individual rights...
> 
> While I realize the Republicans managed to "coopt" the leadership by doing what politicans do best (bribe and threaten), those of us who stood waving flags in the heat/cold/wind/rain to rage against being sold out continue to believe that what we tried to do was worth it.
> 
> Don't call me a tea bagger... My father spent 3 and 1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp and told me that standing up for what you believe in will define your life. I may be a "girl" but I'm a Missouri corn fed farm girl and if you call me a tea bagger again, I will have to come up there and kick your butt.
> 
> Now... I didn't give a crap which one of Obama/Romney won. I wanted a different county sheriff. I lost. Now I gotta move.
> 
> 
> 
> Any American who believes in individual rights over government entitlements will receive rough treatment from some of the people here, Margorok. My apologies for the way you have been treated.
Click to expand...


----------



## jimbotelecom

margarok said:


> jimbotelecom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay... I have had a couple too many glasses of wine and have to pipe up here. I was one of the original Tea Party participants here in flyover country Oklahoma USA. We were non-partisan and all about demanding the Federal government recognize our individual rights...
> 
> While I realize the Republicans managed to "coopt" the leadership by doing what politicans do best (bribe and threaten), those of us who stood waving flags in the heat/cold/wind/rain to rage against being sold out continue to believe that what we tried to do was worth it.
> 
> Don't call me a tea bagger... My father spent 3 and 1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp and told me that standing up for what you believe in will define your life. I may be a "girl" but I'm a Missouri corn fed farm girl and if you call me a tea bagger again, I will have to come up there and kick your butt.
> 
> Now... I didn't give a crap which one of Obama/Romney won. I wanted a different county sheriff. I lost. Now I gotta move.
> 
> 
> 
> The non-partisan Tea Party was devoured by the GOP as you have stated and at that point they became tea baggers.
> 
> We have a similar background. My father spent 3 years in the air force as a pilot during the same war and survived. I'm also for against GMO foods and the GMO industry is heavily subsidized by governments namely in the Western world.
> 
> Sorry to tell you this but it was the tea bagger segment of the GOP that helped to scare off moderate independents and democrats from electing Romney.
> 
> I think there is a place for the tea baggers to become the Tea Party again but they will have to go their own course and provide a third alternative in the U.S. political system.
> 
> As for your threat, I trust you consumed too much wine to actually condone physical harm. You are forgiven. Best of luck to you as an individual, there's a new sheriff in town.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


>


:lmao::clap::clap::clap::lmao:


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> jimbotelecom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely. The tea baggers are now isolated!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay... I have had a couple too many glasses of wine and have to pipe up here. I was one of the original Tea Party participants here in flyover country Oklahoma USA. We were non-partisan and all about demanding the Federal government recognize our individual rights...
> 
> While I realize the Republicans managed to "coopt" the leadership by doing what politicans do best (bribe and threaten), those of us who stood waving flags in the heat/cold/wind/rain to rage against being sold out continue to believe that what we tried to do was worth it.
> 
> Don't call me a tea bagger... My father spent 3 and 1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp and told me that standing up for what you believe in will define your life. I may be a "girl" but I'm a Missouri corn fed farm girl and if you call me a tea bagger again, I will have to come up there and kick your butt.
> 
> Now... I didn't give a crap which one of Obama/Romney won. I wanted a different county sheriff. I lost. Now I gotta move.
> 
> 
> 
> So? I come from a long line of military men who have been shot, captured, and fought for our country in every war. I still called 'lefty', 'socialist', and a few other choice terms.
> 
> As for the tea party being non-partisan, LOL.
Click to expand...


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::clap::clap::lmao:


priceless cartoon.

Trump has made a total jackarse out of himself on this one. Have you see Colbert's response to Trump's ultimatum? Priceless.


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Sorry to tell you this but it was the tea bagger segment of the GOP that helped to scare off moderate independents and democrats from electing Romney.


Wrong again. The non-surprise of the night in exit polling is that voters did not see enough of a difference between the candidates to risk voting for Romney. However, you have been using the term "tea bagger" for almost two years, so your distinction of using the term only now is non-existent.


----------



## groovetube

ah, here we go. I knew it was a matter of time that it was expressed that it was the moderate positions that scared off voters.

The truth is, Romney was tanking until he began to moderate his positions. 

However, I think the republicans should definitely swing hard right next time. Truly distinguish themselves, that way, we won't see them in power for the foreseeable future.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> Wrong again. The non-surprise of the night in exit polling is that voters did not see enough of a difference between the candidates to risk voting for Romney. However, you have been using the term "tea bagger" for almost two years, so your distinction of using the term only now is non-existent.


Not wrong again at all or about as wrong as you were maintaining that the electorate would blame Obama for the poor economy - Fox's own exit polls in the swing states showed most voters blamed Bush. You were wrong.


----------



## margarok

jimbotelecom said:


> margarok said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for your threat, I trust you consumed too much wine to actually condone physical harm. You are forgiven. Best of luck to you as an individual, there's a new sheriff in town.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha! Laughter is the best medicine. And, I've never really tried to kick anyone's butt, but I do get my dander up once in a while. But not over politics.
> 
> To be honest, my little Tea Party group broke away from the larger organization and formed what we call the "Family of Families." The intent was to form a network of self-sufficiency, gardening, raising chickens/rabbits, milk cows, etc. It was all well and good until a small segment of that group decided to go prepper, purchasing a acreage turned compound and focusing on self-defense and other not so agrarian topics. They are a little spooky.
> 
> I haven't been to a meeting in months and so I really have no reason to take umbrage at the name-calling. But, I just remember being at some of those early gatherings and feeling as if we were doing something worthwhile... Perhaps some of us were, but TPTB couldn't let it happen.
Click to expand...


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> margarok said:
> 
> 
> 
> So? I come from a long line of military men who have been shot, captured, and fought for our country in every war. I still called 'lefty', 'socialist', and a few other choice terms.
> 
> As for the tea party being non-partisan, LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, many of us (me and a couple others) considered the tea party a movement, not really an organization. Like I said... it quickly turned into something I didn't sign up for, so it never was was I thought it should be, if that makes sense.
> 
> I never meant to imply that I'm the only person with a father to be proud of... it is just a big part of what shapes my viewpoint. No insult intended toward anyone else's background.
Click to expand...


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Not wrong again at all or about as wrong as you were maintaining that the electorate would blame Obama for the poor economy - Fox's own exit polls in the swing states showed most voters blamed Bush. You were wrong.


My statement was correct. I said the real question was not _whether_ the economy is in trouble, but who would be blamed for it. A majority still blamed George Bush, but did not dispute that the economy was in the tank.


----------



## Rps

margarok, I have often felt that there was little difference between the Dems and GOP in actual policy passed in legislation. Both, to me as a Canadian, are media centred and believe their past rather than their future. Many times I've felt that we have little difference in our parties when the rubber meets the road, namely, passing policy. So, as a good neighbour, I would ask you, do you think the U.S. needs a third party. I do. I think they need a true progressive conservative party, one with a social conscious and fiscal responsibility. I'm not sure if the Tea Party had the social conscious part, but I think we can agree on the fiscal responsibility. So if you had the power to start a third party ( if you felt you needed one ) what would it be like?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> margarok, I have often felt that there was little difference between the Dems and GOP in actual policy passed in legislation. Both, to me as a Canadian, are media centred and believe their past rather than their future. Many times I've felt that we have little difference in our parties when the rubber meets the road, namely, passing policy. So, as a good neighbour, I would ask you, do you think the U.S. needs a third party. I do. I think they need a true progressive conservative party, one with a social conscious and fiscal responsibility. I'm not sure if the Tea Party had the social conscious part, but I think we can agree on the fiscal responsibility. So if you had the power to start a third party ( if you felt you needed one ) what would it be like?


No party can deliver the generous slate of social services currently offered in the U.S. without borrowing the money from someone else, or removing more money form the productive economy. Any establishment of a fiscally sound reform party would require dialing back social consciousness to a sustainable level. Any other approach requires handing out larger and larger slices of a shrinking pie.


----------



## margarok

Rps said:


> margarok, I have often felt that there was little difference between the Dems and GOP in actual policy passed in legislation. Both, to me as a Canadian, are media centred and believe their past rather than their future. Many times I've felt that we have little difference in our parties when the rubber meets the road, namely, passing policy. So, as a good neighbour, I would ask you, do you think the U.S. needs a third party. I do. I think they need a true progressive conservative party, one with a social conscious and fiscal responsibility. I'm not sure if the Tea Party had the social conscious part, but I think we can agree on the fiscal responsibility. So if you had the power to start a third party ( if you felt you needed one ) what would it be like?


You mean a viable third party that wouldn't be marginalized and/or consumed immediately by the two legs of the mutant beast that is American Political Theater?

Full disclosure: I am a registered Republican because if you aren't one or the other here in Oklahoma, you cannot participate in any part of the selection process. So, in an effort to learn all I could about the state of the world after simply voting as a registered "Independent" for a decade, I became a Republican on the voting rolls. In a political science class, I told everyone I was a Progressive Conservative (I have a warped sense of humor) which made the professor laugh but since I WAS the curve, she laughed with me not at me. I seriously thought there was a place for someone like me in journalism then... someone who believed that the greatest lesson of Prohibition was learned by the grandson of Jack Daniels, who got himself elected to Congress to get a waiver for his family's distillery in Lynchburg, Tennessee. In other words... when the law is corrupt (as the 18th Amendment surely was, both in intent and content), the corrupt make the law work for them.

So, I became a precinct captain, joined in the fun at the county convention, snuck into a photograph being taken of the local bigwigs in the party (hahaha - who WAS that strange woman standing behind you Mr. Important Party guy?) and, alas, LEARNED that newcomers with new ideas are welcome to be seen but not heard. (Almost half of the precincts in this state go unrepresented at the convention, so that explained why there really is no choice on election day.)

I backed people running for Party Leadership who, like me (and part of my original Family of Families group), thought we could make a difference from the inside. Since our group had decided to infiltrate (funny using such a sinister term for trying to get a voice in local and state politics), we managed to seat about ten percent of the delegates at the convention and by being the charming folks we are/were, garnered another ten percent of support from other voting delegates. 

After our nominees received 25% of the vote, the irritation amongst the party elite grew. Rules were changed and I learned that "point of order madam chairman" is the magic phrase that means your effort at debating someone about principles is against the rules. Or it will be against the rules soon. All the issues we tried to force into consideration failed and only a couple of our nominees got put into office. And, they've become part of the elite now, lost to us. LOL.

That was in the leadup to election 2010. I didn't participate this year at all, though I was bombarded with pleas for money, time, support, etc. The only reason I didn't change my affiliation back to Independent was that I wanted to vote in the primary for a new sheriff!

Now, having filled you in on my political background, I will answer your question about third parties. I watched the "third" party debates on YouTube (I think I posted a link here) and was so glad to hear someone discussing things that really mattered. 

Since you are granting me the power to establish a third party, I will tell you that the party will closely resemble the Libertarian party, except that we believe that there has been so much damage to our agricultural base that environmental issues must have an equal role in our policymaking guidelines. We will give the future of our children's children a voice by insisting that threats to the food and water supply from chemicals, GMO patents, and corrupt federal agencies exercising power grabs will be treated as a Clear and Present Danger that have to be considered when any policy is formed or changed. We will view Incrementalism as a tool, not as a goal, seeing compromise as a necessary step in our path to sound economic footing. We will encourage self-reliance by investing in young people who demonstrate "distance travelled." (Example: All young people graduating high school will get their choice of trade school tuition, junior college tuition, or perhaps some managed on the job apprenticeship programs... If they complete the first year successfully, thus travel the distance, they will be eligible for further educational support. 

To fund this? Bring our troops home and let the military industrial complex wither on the vine. Yes, I realize that opens up a new can of worms, but worms are good composters, turning useless organic matter into something that provides nutrients for growth. The biggest danger to our country, in my opinion, is the war machine that claims to want to protect it. After I separated from the military, I did work for three of the big name weapons manufacturers/contractors. I can't put into words the evil I've seen in contract negotiations with unions and with federal agencies. Can't for many reasons...

And now, having worn myself out coming up with a platform, I guess I'll post this and lay myself open to attack for being naive. But, I do think that an informed and interested citizenry could do better.

My candidate for President appears to look like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader combined.


----------



## eMacMan

margarok said:


> You mean a viable third party that wouldn't be marginalized and/or consumed immediately by the two legs of the mutant beast that is American Political Theater?
> 
> Full disclosure: I am a registered Republican because if you aren't one or the other here in Oklahoma, you cannot participate in any part of the selection process. So, in an effort to learn all I could about the state of the world after simply voting as a registered "Independent" for a decade, I became a Republican on the voting rolls. In a political science class, I told everyone I was a Progressive Conservative (I have a warped sense of humor) which made the professor laugh but since I WAS the curve, she laughed with me not at me. I seriously thought there was a place for someone like me in journalism then... someone who believed that the greatest lesson of Prohibition was learned by the grandson of Jack Daniels, who got himself elected to Congress to get a waiver for his family's distillery in Lynchburg, Tennessee. In other words... when the law is corrupt (as the 18th Amendment surely was, both in intent and content), the corrupt make the law work for them.
> 
> So, I became a precinct captain, joined in the fun at the county convention, snuck into a photograph being taken of the local bigwigs in the party (hahaha - who WAS that strange woman standing behind you Mr. Important Party guy?) and, alas, LEARNED that newcomers with new ideas are welcome to be seen but not heard. (Almost half of the precincts in this state go unrepresented at the convention, so that explained why there really is no choice on election day.)
> 
> I backed people running for Party Leadership who, like me (and part of my original Family of Families group), thought we could make a difference from the inside. Since our group had decided to infiltrate (funny using such a sinister term for trying to get a voice in local and state politics), we managed to seat about ten percent of the delegates at the convention and by being the charming folks we are/were, garnered another ten percent of support from other voting delegates.
> 
> After our nominees received 25% of the vote, the irritation amongst the party elite grew. Rules were changed and I learned that "point of order madam chairman" is the magic phrase that means your effort at debating someone about principles is against the rules. Or it will be against the rules soon. All the issues we tried to force into consideration failed and only a couple of our nominees got put into office. And, they've become part of the elite now, lost to us. LOL.
> 
> That was in the leadup to election 2010. I didn't participate this year at all, though I was bombarded with pleas for money, time, support, etc. The only reason I didn't change my affiliation back to Independent was that I wanted to vote in the primary for a new sheriff!
> 
> Now, having filled you in on my political background, I will answer your question about third parties. I watched the "third" party debates on YouTube (I think I posted a link here) and was so glad to hear someone discussing things that really mattered.
> 
> Since you are granting me the power to establish a third party, I will tell you that the party will closely resemble the Libertarian party, except that we believe that there has been so much damage to our agricultural base that environmental issues must have an equal role in our policymaking guidelines. We will give the future of our children's children a voice by insisting that threats to the food and water supply from chemicals, GMO patents, and corrupt federal agencies exercising power grabs will be treated as a Clear and Present Danger that have to be considered when any policy is formed or changed. We will view Incrementalism as a tool, not as a goal, seeing compromise as a necessary step in our path to sound economic footing. We will encourage self-reliance by investing in young people who demonstrate "distance travelled." (Example: All young people graduating high school will get their choice of trade school tuition, junior college tuition, or perhaps some managed on the job apprenticeship programs... If they complete the first year successfully, thus travel the distance, they will be eligible for further educational support.
> 
> To fund this? Bring our troops home and let the military industrial complex wither on the vine. Yes, I realize that opens up a new can of worms, but worms are good composters, turning useless organic matter into something that provides nutrients for growth. The biggest danger to our country, in my opinion, is the war machine that claims to want to protect it. After I separated from the military, I did work for three of the big name weapons manufacturers/contractors. I can't put into words the evil I've seen in contract negotiations with unions and with federal agencies. Can't for many reasons...
> 
> And now, having worn myself out coming up with a platform, I guess I'll post this and lay myself open to attack for being naive. But, I do think that an informed and interested citizenry could do better.
> 
> My candidate for President appears to look like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader combined.


Congratulations! 
A whole lot closer to my own beliefs than any of the bums that were running.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> No party can deliver the generous slate of social services currently offered in the U.S. without borrowing the money from someone else, or removing more money form the productive economy. Any establishment of a fiscally sound reform party would require dialing back social consciousness to a sustainable level. Any other approach requires handing out larger and larger slices of a shrinking pie.


Actually, let's correct this to reflect reality.

No party can deliver social services to the general population, who clearly needs it especially after the top income people gorged themselves silly and destroyed the economy, while maintaining insane and useless tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations.

Bill Clinton proved it.

And here, Harper has pulled the same bunch of lies swallowed by the faithful, telling everyone they had to slash corp rates for job creation, and all it has done is lead to more corporations cash hoarding.

Corp tax cuts and to the wealthy, *do not* create jobs.

It's simply a bunch of nonsense spoon fed to the very willing to believe it.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> actually, let's correct this to reflect reality.
> 
> No party can deliver social services to the general population, who clearly needs it especially after the top income people gorged themselves silly and destroyed the economy, while maintaining insane and useless tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations.
> 
> Bill clinton proved it.
> 
> And here, harper has pulled the same bunch of lies swallowed by the faithful, telling everyone they had to slash corp rates for job creation, and all it has done is lead to more corporations cash hoarding.
> 
> Corp tax cuts and to the wealthy, *do not* create jobs.
> 
> It's simply a bunch of nonsense spoon fed to the very willing to believe it.


+1


----------



## Rps

martgarok, thank you for such a well thought out and wonderfully personal response to my question. I've worked for a number of parties in my life and I think many of us, here, would probably welcome a two party system.....personally I not so sure I would like that but it's nice to at least have a winner in these things as our minority governments operate differently due to the Parliamentary system vs the Republic. That said, I think we have too many parties and suffer the tragedy of the political commons. But a third party in your country would appear to be the answer and, I think you would be surprised, that many Canadians would agree with your vision.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> No party can deliver the generous slate of social services currently offered in the U.S. without borrowing the money from someone else, or removing more money form the productive economy. Any establishment of a fiscally sound reform party would require dialing back social consciousness to a sustainable level. Any other approach requires handing out larger and larger slices of a shrinking pie.


I think social conscious doesn't mean keeping the same course. Government's need to be fair and balanced and, have a sustainable plan with social issues. I may be generalising here but most social issues can be fixed with economic growth and moving to fuller employment....... but not at the cost of ethics and pandering to corporations.


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> You mean a viable third party that wouldn't be marginalized and/or consumed immediately by the two legs of the mutant beast that is American Political Theater?
> 
> Full disclosure: I am a registered Republican because if you aren't one or the other here in Oklahoma, you cannot participate in any part of the selection process. So, in an effort to learn all I could about the state of the world after simply voting as a registered "Independent" for a decade, I became a Republican on the voting rolls. In a political science class, I told everyone I was a Progressive Conservative (I have a warped sense of humor) which made the professor laugh but since I WAS the curve, she laughed with me not at me. I seriously thought there was a place for someone like me in journalism then... someone who believed that the greatest lesson of Prohibition was learned by the grandson of Jack Daniels, who got himself elected to Congress to get a waiver for his family's distillery in Lynchburg, Tennessee. In other words... when the law is corrupt (as the 18th Amendment surely was, both in intent and content), the corrupt make the law work for them.
> 
> So, I became a precinct captain, joined in the fun at the county convention, snuck into a photograph being taken of the local bigwigs in the party (hahaha - who WAS that strange woman standing behind you Mr. Important Party guy?) and, alas, LEARNED that newcomers with new ideas are welcome to be seen but not heard. (Almost half of the precincts in this state go unrepresented at the convention, so that explained why there really is no choice on election day.)
> 
> I backed people running for Party Leadership who, like me (and part of my original Family of Families group), thought we could make a difference from the inside. Since our group had decided to infiltrate (funny using such a sinister term for trying to get a voice in local and state politics), we managed to seat about ten percent of the delegates at the convention and by being the charming folks we are/were, garnered another ten percent of support from other voting delegates.
> 
> After our nominees received 25% of the vote, the irritation amongst the party elite grew. Rules were changed and I learned that "point of order madam chairman" is the magic phrase that means your effort at debating someone about principles is against the rules. Or it will be against the rules soon. All the issues we tried to force into consideration failed and only a couple of our nominees got put into office. And, they've become part of the elite now, lost to us. LOL.
> 
> That was in the leadup to election 2010. I didn't participate this year at all, though I was bombarded with pleas for money, time, support, etc. The only reason I didn't change my affiliation back to Independent was that I wanted to vote in the primary for a new sheriff!
> 
> Now, having filled you in on my political background, I will answer your question about third parties. I watched the "third" party debates on YouTube (I think I posted a link here) and was so glad to hear someone discussing things that really mattered.
> 
> Since you are granting me the power to establish a third party, I will tell you that the party will closely resemble the Libertarian party, except that we believe that there has been so much damage to our agricultural base that environmental issues must have an equal role in our policymaking guidelines. We will give the future of our children's children a voice by insisting that threats to the food and water supply from chemicals, GMO patents, and corrupt federal agencies exercising power grabs will be treated as a Clear and Present Danger that have to be considered when any policy is formed or changed. We will view Incrementalism as a tool, not as a goal, seeing compromise as a necessary step in our path to sound economic footing. We will encourage self-reliance by investing in young people who demonstrate "distance travelled." (Example: All young people graduating high school will get their choice of trade school tuition, junior college tuition, or perhaps some managed on the job apprenticeship programs... If they complete the first year successfully, thus travel the distance, they will be eligible for further educational support.
> 
> To fund this? Bring our troops home and let the military industrial complex wither on the vine. Yes, I realize that opens up a new can of worms, but worms are good composters, turning useless organic matter into something that provides nutrients for growth. The biggest danger to our country, in my opinion, is the war machine that claims to want to protect it. After I separated from the military, I did work for three of the big name weapons manufacturers/contractors. I can't put into words the evil I've seen in contract negotiations with unions and with federal agencies. Can't for many reasons...
> 
> And now, having worn myself out coming up with a platform, I guess I'll post this and lay myself open to attack for being naive. But, I do think that an informed and interested citizenry could do better.
> 
> My candidate for President appears to look like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader combined.


I don't disagree with you on your thoughts on a '3rd party'. 

I have felt that much of the pandering to the top income earners and corporations, from tax policies to as you mentioned, danger to our health and well being (food water, etc etc.) has resulted in a greater need for social services. Perhaps a more balanced approach over the longer term would result in less social services. 

I've heard many a supposed libertarian/conservative lament about how the left needs people down and out to have the 'business of social services', but in reality, it's their policies that put people in those needy positions. And for the vast majority of them, they really don't want to be there, and would much prefer to be self sufficient. The only reason 'handouts' are needed so much now is because of the insane greed of the Bush years that got them there.


----------



## Rps

groovetube said:


> . The only reason 'handouts' are needed so much now is because of the insane greed of the Bush years that got them there.


Groove I agree with everything you said except the above, "handouts" have been accepted practice long before the Bush years. I personally believe the greatest threat to U.S. democracy, as I have said before, is the SC ruling on Super PACs and the 501 (c-4 ) rullings....this opens to door to a bought mandate which, if you are a reader of Marx, only serves the wealthy.


----------



## margarok

Rps said:


> martgarok, thank you for such a well thought out and wonderfully personal response to my question. I've worked for a number of parties in my life and I think many of us, here, would probably welcome a two party system.....personally I not so sure I would like that but it's nice to at least have a winner in these things as our minority government's operate differently due to the Parliamentary system vs the Republic. That said, I think we have too many parties and suffer the tragedy of the political commons. But a third party in your country would appear to be the answer and, I think you would be surprised, that many Canadians would agree with your vision.


Once upon a time, I believed I wanted to work as a journalist. To prepare, I majored in Journalism, and picked up three minors: English, History, Political Science. One class I took was the Politics of Western Europe, so I learned a lot about multi-party systems and how dispersing political capital to so many different parties spreads it too thin to get much accomplished. 

I think the role of a (stronger) third party would be to force discussion of issues the two parties do not to address. Eventually, we are all going to have to face these issues, but by allowing the majority of our citizenry to remain ignorant of the crises that are just around the corner is irresponsible. While there may not be room long-term for a viable third party in the U.S. political power structure, a third party that could generate real interest in change is long overdue. 

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback.


----------



## Rps

margarok, the perfect engine of change in this regard is social media........however it lacks credibility. If one could find a way to establish this, and to consolidate it, then you would have your third party.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> I don't disagree with you on your thoughts on a '3rd party'.
> The only reason 'handouts' are needed so much now is because of the insane greed of the Bush years that got them there.


As a kid, I saw the development of handouts as a way to manipulate the poor and uneducated back in the 1970s. That was the era, I believe, that saw the rise of farm subsidies and (not coincidentally) the beginnings of corporate farms in the region where I grew up. The poor tenant farm workers in the area generally received welfare checks. The big farmers paid them low wages in cash (unreported, I imagine) and "allowed" them to live in the substandard houses on their farms. One of my classmates was forced to move away after graduation. She had refused to contribute to the family's income by getting pregnant and having a child. There were a lot of unwed mother's among the children of the tenant workers. The greed of the large farmers who could afford to pay their workers a decent wage created a cycle of poverty for many of them. 

Greed didn't originate in the Bush years.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Great posts margarok. You're thinking reflects much of what exists among Canadian Greens. Quite interesting. Thanks.


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> As a kid, I saw the development of handouts as a way to manipulate the poor and uneducated back in the 1970s. That was the era, I believe, that saw the rise of farm subsidies and (not coincidentally) the beginnings of corporate farms in the region where I grew up. The poor tenant farm workers in the area generally received welfare checks. The big farmers paid them low wages in cash (unreported, I imagine) and "allowed" them to live in the substandard houses on their farms. One of my classmates was forced to move away after graduation. She had refused to contribute to the family's income by getting pregnant and having a child. There were a lot of unwed mother's among the children of the tenant workers. The greed of the large farmers who could afford to pay their workers a decent wage created a cycle of poverty for many of them.
> 
> Greed didn't originate in the Bush years.


No, certainly I wouldn't insinuate it did. But the Bush years certainly exemplified the very worst of it.

And wouldn't give the democrats a free pass on this either at all. I can pontificate about the bush tax cuts on the wealthy all I like, but democrats also voted against letting them expire as well.


----------



## Rps

jimbotelecom said:


> Great posts margarok. You're thinking reflects much of what exists among Canadian Greens. Quite interesting. Thanks.


Interesting thought J. Was wondering if the U.S. has a Green Party?


----------



## margarok

It does... Ralph Nader ran a couple of times, but there is a requirement to get a certain # of signatures on a petition to get on the ballot in each state (100,000, I think) and so he got onto the ballots in only a few states. this year's Green candidate was Jill Stein, a relative unknown.

the Green Party of the United States


----------



## Dr.G.

Luckily for the depressed Republicans, once they stop pointing fingers and complaining about blame, Obamacare will survive .................... and depression is covered under this plan.


----------



## Dr.G.

The co-founder of Tea Party Patriots, Jenny Beth Martin, said Wednesday that Republicans nominated a "weak, moderate candidate" who was "hand-picked by the Beltway elites and country club establishment wing of the Republican Party." She added the "presidential loss is unequivocally on them."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The co-founder of Tea Party Patriots, Jenny Beth Martin, said Wednesday that Republicans nominated a "weak, moderate candidate" who was "hand-picked by the Beltway elites and country club establishment wing of the Republican Party." She added the "presidential loss is unequivocally on them."


Absolutely. More than 50 per cent of exit pollers saw no difference between the two candidates. Romney's numbers improved when he became combative and differed from the president during the debate, then fell as he began to agree with him and speak of reaching across the aisle. 

Romney ran a great campaign to the limits of his substance as an alternative candidate. It's as one pundit put it: "If Obama is driving you into a brick wall at 110 miles and hour, it's little solace to vote for someone who wants to get you there at 90. Better hope that someone who knows how to drive arrives instead."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Absolutely. More than 50 per cent of exit pollers saw no difference between the two candidates. Romney's numbers improved when he became combative and differed from the president during the debate, then fell as he began to agree with him and speak of reaching across the aisle.
> 
> Romney ran a great campaign to the limits of his substance as an alternative candidate. It's as one pundit put it: "If Obama is driving you into a brick wall at 110 miles and hour, it's little solace to vote for someone who wants to get you there at 90. Better hope that someone who knows how to drive arrives instead."


Well, there had better be some compromise within the Congress and then between Congress and the White House. If not, the car won't be hitting a wall, but going over the cliff. We shall see.


----------



## margarok

Dr.G. said:


> Well, there had better be some compromise within the Congress and then between Congress and the White House. If not, the car won't be hitting a wall, but going over the cliff. We shall see.


We can only hope for that, not count on it. Too many members of Congress get their noses out of joint over their little pet-peeve issues and refuse to act like adults.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> We can only hope for that, not count on it. Too many members of Congress get their noses out of joint over their little pet-peeve issues and refuse to act like adults.


Sadly, very true. A president needs a line item veto to delete stupid add-ins to various bills. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

I still believe, deep down, in what Bobby Kennedy called "the ripples of hope" in which each person does what he or she can to help make America a better place for everyone. We shall see.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, very true. A president needs a line item veto to delete stupid add-ins to various bills. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Obama is good enough at writing those lines into bills--so perhaps he will remove some too.


----------



## Macfury

Personally, I hope they go with the fiscal cliff. It will be far more effective than any half-assed compromise they can come up with.


----------



## groovetube

Mitt Romney's Campaign Cancels Staffers Credit Cards In The Middle Of The Night - Forbes

This is good for a chuckle.


----------



## kps

groovetube said:


> Mitt Romney's Campaign Cancels Staffers Credit Cards In The Middle Of The Night - Forbes
> 
> This is good for a chuckle.


Heard it on the radio earlier in the day and here is what my reaction was:


----------



## i-rui

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Exactly why the macfurys need to be confronted always to shut down he machinery of misinformation. In the first bit Rachel Maddow nailed a pile of just blindingly crazy lies spouted by the right.

It was also nice to see Trump nailed to a cross and his resulting meltdown. Time to zip it up and fade to black for a bit there Trump...


----------



## MacGuiver

Mitt left his supporters stranded in cabs? Greedy bastard! 
There seems to be a lot of employees getting left out to dry by government leaders. Just weeks ago an Ambassador and security detail were left out to dry in a burning compound in Benghazi. The chaos that ensued was "not optimal".


----------



## groovetube

How anyone can draw a parallel here with the situation in Benghazi is anyone's guess.


----------



## MacGuiver

Employees were left to fend for themselves in both cases by their political employers except the later died as a result.


----------



## SINC

MacGuiver said:


> Mitt left his supporters stranded in cabs? Greedy bastard!
> There seems to be a lot of employees getting left out to dry by government leaders. Just weeks ago an Ambassador and security detail were left out to dry in a burning compound in Benghazi. The chaos that ensued was "not optimal".


Yep, leaving them high and dry is a current pattern in U.S. politics,


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> Employees were left to fend for themselves in both cases by their political employers except the later died as a result.


I'm sorry but cancelling credit cards for taxi fares and what happened in Benghazi are *not* the same thing.

Not even remotely the same thing.

What occurred or what caused the breakdown leading up to in Benghazi needs to be investigated, certainly the thousands who lost their lives in the twin towers despite there being clear warning signs and intelligence was another incident of many, but the right's constant bleating about Benghazi and now comparing it to cancelling credit cards resulting in the inability to pay a taxi fare?

I understand that the conservatives received a real shellacking, but it's simply ridiculous, if not disturbing to place te cancelling of credit cards into the same conversation as the deaths of 4 Americans in Libya.


----------



## margarok

I received these links from one of my Prepper pals here. It is an interview with a former NYC policeman discussion what has happened on the ground post-hurricane. Bear in mind this friend of mine owns a survival compound somewhere around here... I wouldn't dare approach it without an invitation. 

_This is an interview with a NYC cop that is seeing it first hand. It sounds cold to be looking at this situation in this manner, but as I said before this is an eye opening look into how people are reacting to their situation and how long it takes before things turn to chaos. Here are the links to Part 1 and 2_

Hurricane Sandy vs Dollar Collapse Part 1 - YouTube
Hurricane Sandy vs Dollar Collapse Part 2 - YouTube


----------



## MacGuiver

Groove,

I agree its not the same thing. What Obama did was much worst and isn't even comparable in gravity to the actions of the Romney or his election team.
The fact the Obama administration left a US Ambassador and his security team out to dry despite calls for help is far worst than someone being left without cab fare. Just thought you Obama fanboys needed a little reality check while you were kicking Romney for wrongly leaving employees without cab fare to protect his money while your guy left 4 Americans to be murdered, possibly to protect his political aspirations. 
I'll leave you now to carry on with the rending of your garments and gnashing of teeth.


----------



## MacDoc




----------



## MacDoc

what goes around


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> Groove,
> 
> I agree its not the same thing. What Obama did was much worst and isn't even comparable in gravity to the actions of the Romney or his election team.
> The fact the Obama administration left a US Ambassador and his security team out to dry despite calls for help is far worst than someone being left without cab fare. Just thought you Obama fanboys needed a little reality check while you were kicking Romney for wrongly leaving employees without cab fare to protect his money while your guy left 4 Americans to be murdered, possibly to protect his political aspirations.
> I'll leave you now to carry on with the rending of your garments and gnashing of teeth.


Wow, I didn't realize the hurt and anguish ran so deep that you'd have to go off like this about the chuckle on the credit card cancelling.

Clearly you do think it relates since you compared the two. That's disturbing.

In any case the Libya attack is a separate issue, one that needs to be investigated, and your quick slicing of Obama without any real hard evidence is really, just sour grapes.


----------



## margarok

I find this one more thought provoking.


----------



## Rps

Margarok, is this a riding map? If so that is very telling. It tells me your country is even more divided than I thought.


----------



## groovetube

yet Obama received some 3 million more votes than did Romney.

Ah the conspiracy/spins begin!


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> Mitt left his supporters stranded in cabs? Greedy bastard!
> There seems to be a lot of employees getting left out to dry by government leaders. Just weeks ago an Ambassador and security detail were left out to dry in a burning compound in Benghazi. The chaos that ensued was "not optimal".


Their deaths are just collateral damage to an Obama victory.


----------



## groovetube

now there's real class.


----------



## margarok

Rps said:


> Margarok, is this a riding map? If so that is very telling. It tells me your country is even more divided than I thought.


I'm not sure what you mean by "riding" map. What it shows is the majority vote by county (parish in Lousiana) in each state. So, yes... there is tremendous division in this country. I really hope people step away from it and face the fact that there are real problems that need to be addressed. Enough of the silliness.


----------



## groovetube

Well at least in the US the president won on the highest popular vote clearly.

Here in Canada we get majority governments holding all of the cards with often just a 1/3 of the votes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Margarok, is this a riding map? If so that is very telling. It tells me your country is even more divided than I thought.


Those are the various counties in each state, Rp. For example, I voted in Clarke country that had about a 63% vote for Pres. Obama. It is one of the tiny dots of blue in the state of Georgia.


----------



## Rps

Groove, one would even question the 1/3 number, but that's also the danger of having too many parties.....but it wouldn't be so bad if we had fixed terms for sessions and term limits as they do in the U.S.


----------



## MacGuiver

groovetube said:


> Wow, I didn't realize the hurt and anguish ran so deep that you'd have to go off like this about the chuckle on the credit card cancelling.


No hurt or anguish here Groove. Thankfully I don't live there. I wish them good luck with their chosen course.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I find this one more thought provoking.
> 
> View attachment 25552


It's further evidence that the larger centres, which are going bankrupt, are voting for Santa Claus instead of getting their own houses in order.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> what goes around


This is really a weird turn of events, since the Democrats were the major proponents of slavery. Republicans have overtaken those slave states now.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> It's further evidence that the larger centres, which are going bankrupt, are voting for Santa Claus instead of getting their own houses in order.


You are probably right to some extent, but there is a lot more than meets the eye here. 

Here in perhaps the reddest state in the country (Oklahoma) are some really poverty stricken areas that rely heavily on welfare, food stamps (EBT) and disability payments. Some other force at work other than reliance on federal assistance I think...


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> This is really a weird turn of events, since the Democrats were the major proponents of slavery. Republicans have overtaken those slave states now.


That's why I prefer the electoral map by county... 

And, if I remember my PoliSci correctly, Richard Nixon managed to "turn" most of the former slave states Republican around the time the desegregation of schools led to widespread busing problems.


----------



## groovetube

After seeing the santa claus comment I laughed pretty hard. Indeed, Romney's promises of 20% tax cuts, spending trillions more on the military, along with the rest of his promises yet somehow dealing with the deficit problem, well there's some santa claus for you right there.

And Margarok you're absolutely right about the red states receiving quite a lot of social benefits.

Let's remember which party it was that took the US from Surpluses to massive deficits in the first place, and handed Obama a pretty near bankrupted country (not to mention huge spending bills).

I don't want to give the dems a free pass on this altogether, but this idea that somehow Republicans are better managers of money, don't make me laugh again... Just look at our current conservative government, highest spenders in Canadian history.


----------



## margarok

In my personal point of view I suspect the impact of areas with large number of federal employees weighs heavily on the voting habits of areas. I wonder how easy it is to find out the increased number of federal union jobs over the last few years and pinpoint them on maps. Of course, that would need to include federal contract jobs as well. Hmmm... 

Just thinking out loud.


----------



## groovetube

see that's the funny thing, the number people employed by government had actually gone down under Obama. This is often repeated by someone here as the opposite, but actually Bush increased it, not Obama.

Even Rand Paul was flabbergasted byt this.
Flabbergasted Rand Paul Learns Public Employment Decreased Under Obama | ThinkProgress

edit: just to highlight this response to the usual singling out of federal employees that's usually trotted out:



> Sen. Paul’s office released a statement — with a corresponding radio interview — responding to the debate with Krugman. It read in part:
> The only logical number we could have been discussing was the number of federal workers. Since the last time I checked, Barack Obama was the President, not a mayor or governor. Under President Obama, the federal workforce has grown by 143,000 according to the Labor Department… Yet Professor Krugman added in local and state workers to inflate this number, an irrelevant point at best.
> The 143,000 number excludes federal postal workers, and it’s not clear why Sen. Paul’s office would think that exclusion necessary. Including postal workers, as ThinkProgress did, *the federal workforce only went up 27,000 between December of 2008 and now — an increase of around one percent. Hardly “enormous” growth.*
> *Nor is it clear why Sen. Paul calls the state and local numbers “irrelevant.” As pointed out above, state and local budgets are deeply intertwined with federal spending, a point even the conservative American Enterprise Institute conceded.* And the larger context of Sen. Paul’s disagreement with Prof. Krugman was the economic value of government employment, in which case a state or local job is as good (or as bad, depending on your view) as a federal one.


----------



## margarok

My friend and I are going to withdraw from the Republican party on the way to pick up our Obamaphone. And since that apparently counts as work-related activity, we might just apply for unemployment on the way home.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> You are probably right to some extent, but there is a lot more than meets the eye here.
> 
> Here in perhaps the reddest state in the country (Oklahoma) are some really poverty stricken areas that rely heavily on welfare, food stamps (EBT) and disability payments. Some other force at work other than reliance on federal assistance I think...


I'm not referring to individual personal programs--I'm referring to the mass bail-outs the urban areas are expecting on a municipal level.


----------



## eMacMan

margarok said:


> My friend and I are going to withdraw from the Republican party on the way to pick up our Obamaphone. And since that apparently counts as work-related activity, we might just apply for unemployment on the way home.


To be completely fair, Clinton generated those surpluses by stealing money from the Social Security funds. A practice accelerated under Bush II and Bush III. 

Now of course rather than repaying those $Trillion$ to Social Security/Medicare, both parties would have us believe that the only way to balance the budget is to starve Seniors and deny them medical treatment. 

For whatever reason neither gang is willing to cut military spending back to pre-Bush II levels.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> see that's the funny thing, the number people employed by government had actually gone down under Obama. This is often repeated by someone here as the opposite, but actually Bush increased it, not Obama.
> 
> 
> edit: just to highlight this response to the usual singling out of federal employees that's usually trotted out:


That is a surprise. Any recommendations of where to find data on federal contract employees? (Employees of Boeing, Lockheed, Northrup, etc. holding jobs on federally run property. Here, with all the aircraft maintenance, thousands of jobs at the maintenance depot are actually held by contractors.)

My husband is a contract employee on the Air Force base here. I used to be one too but I got suspended by management for being a union steward. Then, the union refused to help me, so they all can go take a flying leap. LOL.

(I got a settlement through the National Labor Board. I had to file and do my own paperwork though. The company management didn't like me because I stood up for a guy who had a heart attack and was being fired for not completing his work. The union didn't like me because I didn't ask their permission to file a grievance on the heart attack guy's behalf. It is all BS in the end.)


----------



## margarok

eMacMan said:


> To be completely fair, Clinton generated those surpluses by stealing money from the Social Security funds. A practice accelerated under Bush II and Bush III.
> 
> Now of course rather than repaying those $Trillion$ to Social Security/Medicare, both parties would have us believe that the only way to balance the budget is to starve Seniors and deny them medical treatment.
> 
> For whatever reason neither gang is willing to cut military spending back to pre-Bush II levels.


That sounds more like it. 

The reason no one will cut military spending is, in my opinion, because the huge corporations that profit from that spending have the politicians in their pants pocket.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> I'm not referring to individual personal programs--I'm referring to the mass bail-outs the urban areas are expecting on a municipal level.


Ah! Oklahoma's voters forced the governor to turn down federal money a couple years ago. I was at the Republican convention when she got booed for trying to take the money. It was funny. It must be hard for politicians to turn down all that "free" federal money. It is just a few strings attached is the only cost...


----------



## groovetube

On military spending, wasn't this one of the cuts that Romney was trying skewer Obama over?


----------



## i-rui

margarok said:


> That's why I prefer the electoral map by county...
> 
> And, if I remember my PoliSci correctly, Richard Nixon managed to "turn" most of the former slave states Republican around the time the desegregation of schools led to widespread busing problems.


i wouldn't give credit to Nixon, it was LBJ who signed the Civial Rights Act :



> Legend has it that, as he put down his pen, Johnson told an aide, "We have lost the South for a generation", anticipating a coming backlash from Southern whites against Johnson's Democratic Party. Moreover, Richard Nixon politically counterattacked with the Southern Strategy where it would "secure" votes for the Republican Party by grabbing the advocates of segregation as well as most of the Southern Democrats.


the price paid for doing the right thing.

-------


regarding the talk about the blue states going bankrupt, i pointed this out months ago. the red states are the biggest welfare queens :

Red States Are Welfare Queens - Business Insider


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> On military spending, wasn't this one of the cuts that Romney was trying skewer Obama over?


I didn't follow the presidential politics this time around. I'm overly cynical from the 2010 election process.

I did just receive an email from Jenny Beth Martin (of Tea Party fame):

_John Boehner Just Denied You Exist 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Well, listen, I think this has been the most misreported story of my two years’ tenure. We don’t have a tea party caucus to speak of in the House.”
- Speaker John Boehner, ABC news, November 8, 2012

This is not about Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney is a good man, a good father, and a good American.

This is about the Beltway GOP establishment that picks losing candidates, runs losing campaigns – and now denies that you exist.

Mitt Romney is gone. Our problem is still here. Because the beltway GOP establishment is still here – and still doesn’t get it.

This is the same GOP establishment that:

Allowed spending to go UP during the 2 years of power and control we gave them in Congress 
Raised the debt ceiling after heavy opposition from the American people 
Refused to utter the words “tea party” once during the entire GOP convention 
Opened the door to tax hikes – this week – with President Obama 
Said – this week – “Mr. President, this is your moment. We’re ready to be led” 
Said – this week – “Obamacare is the law of the land” 
This week – denied we exist 

While you were breaking your back on this election, often with no sleep, to help save this country – the GOP establishment was cooking up a scheme to blame you for their failures.

We knew they would try to blame you. So we hit them first.

There is no way I will let the establishment blame you for their losses. 

Here is a story of a true Patriot:

In Southern California, Tea Party Patriot Linda Dorr had a lady who volunteered to help us save the country by making phone calls to undecided voters in Ohio. Our volunteer had a mild stroke. Two weeks later, she was back volunteering and making phone calls into Ohio to get out the vote. 

That’s who we are. 

Until we face the establishment in the eye and realize that we can’t count on either of these political parties to save our country, our country will continue this slide to European-style socialism. There are those in the establishment who care more about their own power, prestige, and position than they do about defending the ideals and values that made America great. We must be willing to call the establishment out and remind them that the founding principles that made America great are the same ones that will solve America’s greatest challenges. 

We must be willing to lead. We are the last Patriots standing.

The Washington DC establishment may be angry at me for defending you and our supporters, and stopping them from blaming you for their losses. I won't apologize for standing up for you, and I won’t back down.

You ARE the last best hope for America and I will keep fighting alongside each and every one of you to restore our Constitution and America’s greatness.
-Jenny Beth Martin and the National Support Team
_

I suppose I ought to unsubscribe from her newsletter.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is really a weird turn of events, since the Democrats were the major proponents of slavery. Republicans have overtaken those slave states now.


Yes, and in the US South, the Republicans were always called "the party of Lincoln". How times have changed.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I suppose I ought to unsubscribe from her newsletter.


Sign me up--she's right.


----------



## Dr.G.

" Legend has it that, as he put down his pen, Johnson told an aide, "We have lost the South for a generation", anticipating a coming backlash from Southern whites against Johnson's Democratic Party. Moreover, Richard Nixon politically counterattacked with the Southern Strategy where it would "secure" votes for the Republican Party by grabbing the advocates of segregation as well as most of the Southern Democrats." True, i-rui, I recall reading this from various credible sources as well. Still, until the US got deeply involved in Vietnam, LBJ was considered the greatest president since FDR re social issues.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> LBJ was considered the greatest president since FDR re social issues.


I also hold him as the second-most responsible for the level of entitlements crippling the country.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> Sign me up--she's right.


I signed up for this newsletter two years ago when I was sure that the movement would make a difference. That is also when I "became" a Republican to be part of the process. We used to go to the big meetings until the group splintered into several smaller groups. You see, there is always an elite leadership that forms, no matter what.

I am quite disillusioned with all things political right now. I'm still sulking over the sheriff victory.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> You see, there is always an elite leadership that forms, no matter what.


Understood.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I also hold him as the second-most responsible for the level of entitlements crippling the country.


I thought that my statement might bring about some response from you re their sense of social responsibility. :lmao: If nothing else, you are predicatable .......... as well as being honest and a good person. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

I am wondering that if the Republican Party swings towards the center in their rebuilding process will the Tea Party form into an actual third party? We shall see.


----------



## margarok

Dr.G. said:


> I still believe, deep down, in what Bobby Kennedy called "*the ripples of hope*" in which each person does what he or she can to help make America a better place for everyone. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mes amis.


That is a great sentiment - one I hadn't seen before for some reason.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am wondering that if the Republican Party swings towards the center in their rebuilding process will the Tea Party form into an actual third party? We shall see.


Romney was a centrist candidate, Dr. G. If they move any further there will be no difference between them and the Democrats. I hope a third party forms, because the Republicans are no longer a worthwhile firewall against their opponents' policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> That is a great sentiment - one I hadn't seen before for some reason.


Yes, Bobby Kennedy was speaking specifically about the youth of America. Sadly, even though I initially supported Gene McCarthy, I would have gladly supported Bobby Kennedy had he won the nomination. I feel that America would have been a totally different country had he become president in 1968 and again in 1972. C'est la vie. 

Peace, my friend.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney was a centrist candidate, Dr. G. If they move any further there will be no difference between them and the Democrats. I hope a third party forms, because the Republicans are no longer a worthwhile firewall against their opponents' policies.


Romney moved towards the center once he got the nomination, but he would have been foreced back to the right had he won the election. Such is the life of the etch-a-sketch candidate we call Mitt Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

Maybe the Tea Party supporters and the Libertarian Party supporters will unite to form a new third party? Then, they will merge with the Republicans much like the Reform Party and the Progressive Conservative Party mergered here in Canada. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why was Obama crying? - CNN.com

Very nice to see an honest and human president.


----------



## MacDoc

The world approves of Obama - you'd think a few of these right wing ideologues might wake up and realize they are wrong footed.

Obama's re-election applauded around the world | NOLA.com


----------



## Sonal

Dr.G. said:


> Maybe the Tea Party supporters and the Libertarian Party supporters will unite to form a new third party? Then, they will merge with the Republicans much like the Reform Party and the Progressive Conservative Party mergered here in Canada. We shall see.


The LiberTea Party?


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> The world approves of Obama - you'd think a few of these right wing ideologues might wake up and realize they are wrong footed.
> 
> Obama's re-election applauded around the world | NOLA.com


If everybody else was headed toward a financial crisis, you would want to see the last man standing heading there too.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Romney moved towards the center once he got the nomination, but he would have been foreced back to the right had he won the election. Such is the life of the etch-a-sketch candidate we call Mitt Romney.


Back toward _what_ right? He had some good ideas for resuscitating the moribund economy, but there was no "right" position to be forced back to.


----------



## groovetube

What ideas. Romney never actually spelled out any specifics other than, he had a plan.

Great. What plan...

That's part of why he lost.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> The LiberTea Party?


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Son's of Liberty - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Back toward _what_ right? He had some good ideas for resuscitating the moribund economy, but there was no "right" position to be forced back to.


I should have said that a move to a more conservative position, fiscally and socially, rather than the vague word "right".


----------



## margarok

Sonal said:


> The LiberTea Party?


OOOOH! I like LiberTea!

By the way... coincidentally, I got this in my email from one of our local rabble rousing Constitutionalists:

"The Republican National hacks were calling for a big tent under the reign of George Bush I, when they wanted pro-aborts and homosexuals to feel at home. But when us Constitutional and fiscal Libertarians and drug war resistors tried to fit in, suddenly the tent has a shrinkage problem?"

I think us Constitutionalists, Fiscal minded, and anti-any kind of war former Republicans need a party to call our very own.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) - Former GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum offered no insight into his own political future in a Friday CNN interview, but did offer his thoughts as to why the Republican nominee lost to President Barack Obama on Tuesday. 

"What Mitt Romney, in my opinion, didn't do was go out and vigorously defend the beliefs that he said he espoused and didn't go on the offense," Santorum said in an interview to air Friday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight." "And when you're playing defense, which is what I believe the campaign was doing and Republicans were doing generally throughout the course of this campaign you're not going to win."

TRENDING: Romney lost by playing defense, Santorum says – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

It will be interesting to see if he makes another run for the presidency in 2016.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> OOOOH! I like LiberTea!
> 
> By the way... coincidentally, I got this in my email from one of our local rabble rousing Constitutionalists:
> 
> "The Republican National hacks were calling for a big tent under the reign of George Bush I, when they wanted pro-aborts and homosexuals to feel at home. But when us Constitutional and fiscal Libertarians and drug war resistors tried to fit in, suddenly the tent has a shrinkage problem?"
> 
> I think us Constitutionalists, Fiscal minded, and anti-any kind of war former Republicans need a party to call our very own.


Interesting. Well, if the Libertarians and Tea Party factions get together under one tent, they would be strong enough to run a national campaign. We shall see.

Peace, my friend.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> What ideas. Romney never actually spelled out any specifics other than, he had a plan.
> 
> Great. What plan...
> 
> That's part of why he lost.


Well he really did. 

If we look at his history at Bain, he would have sold off the infrastructure at 10¢ on the dollar, exported all of the remaining jobs and deposited the proceeds in his personal corporate account on the Caymen Islands.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> If everybody else was headed toward a financial crisis, you would want to see the last man standing heading there too.


You still seem to be stuck on this idea that the economy is real; if the entire world goes bankrupt, it doesn't mean anything. We still have the same amounts of goods and services; resources and skill will still exist; people will continue to create value etc.

If the economy isn't working for us, we shouldn't change what we're doing, we should change the economy.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You still seem to be stuck on this idea that the economy is real; if the entire world goes bankrupt, it doesn't mean anything. We still have the same amounts of goods and services; resources and skill will still exist; people will continue to create value etc.
> 
> If the economy isn't working for us, we shouldn't change what we're doing, we should change the economy.


Smashing idea, bryanc. Why didn't those fools in the Great Depression just continue selling the same amounts of goods and services and create the same amount of value? Oh, the wasted years when such a simple solution was at hand!!!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Smashing idea, bryanc. Why didn't those fools in the Great Depression just continue selling the same amounts of goods and services and create the same amount of value? Oh, the wasted years when such a simple solution was at hand!!!


Macfury, that's exactly what they did .... what was at issue was the cultural change of fiat economies ..... the depression era, I think, was the litmus test. Shortly there after, once it was more fully understood, the laws began to change to more meet the expectations .... roll forward to 2008 and what we saw was the change of economies again ....


----------



## bryanc

*An interesting article in the Chronicle*

Why Conservatives Turned Against Science

Interesting; prior to the Reagan era, scientists were as likely to vote republican as democrat, but now almost all scientists support the Democrats and Republicans demonize scientists as "liberals". Reality's liberal bias?


----------



## groovetube

We've certainly seen the demonizing and cutting off of scientists here in Canada with our conservative government, they simply do not like what scientists have to say, and need to control the message for their own aims.

We've seen many conservative supporters constantly try to manipulate what the scientists say. ie; climate change. After failing, the only course of action is to try and shut them up. Don't allow them to speak publicly (when, it's OUR tax dollars paying them...).

Canadians are, in general, sleepwalking through this.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Macfury, that's exactly what they did .... what was at issue was the cultural change of fiat economies ..... the depression era, I think, was the litmus test. Shortly there after, once it was more fully understood, the laws began to change to more meet the expectations .... roll forward to 2008 and what we saw was the change of economies again ....


The people may have continued to attempt to create "value" but there weren't enough buyers. Meanwhile, government tinkered heavily with the economy under both Hoover and FDR, stretching the Greta Depression into the longest period of sustained economic trauma the country had seen. The economy that emerged afterward was very like the old one, except the money supply wasn't backed up by value. 

2008 wasn't a change in economies, it was the result of further meddling by government in attempting to get the economy to serve government desires. Same old story.


----------



## Rps

bryanc, I guess its a case of the conservatives being "strong willed and easily lead".


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The people may have continued to attempt to create "value" but there weren't enough buyers. Meanwhile, government tinkered heavily with the economy under both Hoover and FDR, stretching the Greta Depression into the longest period of sustained economic trauma the country had seen. The economy that emerged afterward was very like the old one, except the money supply wasn't backed up by value.
> 
> 2008 wasn't a change in economies, it was the result of further meddling by government in attempting to get the economy to serve government desires. Same old story.


What planet were you on in 2008? If you think that the government was meddling when it allowed the investment banks to police themselves, then I guess you are right, but we've been down this road before here .... No industry can self-regulate or monitor .... self interest always wins out and that was the issue with the ABCPs.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> What planet were you on in 2008? If you think that the government was meddling when it allowed the investment banks to police themselves, then I guess you are right, but we've been down this road before here .... No industry can self-regulate or monitor .... self interest always wins out and that was the issue with the ABCPs.


I agree with your perspective, Rps, but as you say "we've been down that road before". On this sort of issue, Macfury and I agree to disagree and remain friends. It is a useful solution to constant back and forth bickering and a higher blood pressure reading. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> What planet were you on in 2008? If you think that the government was meddling when it allowed the investment banks to police themselves, then I guess you are right, but we've been down this road before here .... No industry can self-regulate or monitor .... self interest always wins out and that was the issue with the ABCPs.


The government changed the invest,ment landscapes to make mortgage derivatives appear valuable, then blessed them with FNMA approval. It understood what was happening but did nothing to stop it, then enured that the banks would be rewarded for their failure through bail-outs.

While self-regulation may not always work, fear of failure and business collapse often does a hell of a job. That aspect of self-interest has been removed by government.


----------



## Rps

I think the issue was that the government and its related agencies missed the boat on derivatives in general.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama to win Florida, CNN projects, sweeping all battlegrounds – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

This would be a nice send off for Pres. Obama on his way to his second inaugural address in January. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

Pretty funny/sad watching Charles Krauthammer claim that Obama has "no mandate" with this win...



> The win gives Obama 332 electoral college votes – comfortably over the 270 needed to clinch victory. Mitt Romney won 206.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Pretty funny/sad watching Charles Krauthammer claim that Obama has "no mandate" with this win...


No president since Reagan's second term has delivered a popular vote exceeding 55%. I would argue that no president of the modern era has enjoyed a mandate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No president since Reagan's second term has delivered a popular vote exceeding 55%. I would argue that no president of the modern era has enjoyed a mandate.


I would tend to agree. The last true mandate was 1964 with the Democrats had the presidency by a huge landslide, as well as both chambers of Congress. It is with this mandate that LBJ was able to lay the foundations of his "Great Society", which has elements even today helping people, the environment and the country. Sadly, with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, all this would fade into memory.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I would tend to agree. The last true mandate was 1964 with the Democrats had the presidency by a huge landslide, as well as both chambers of Congress.


Let the bells ring out and the banners fly! We are in agreement here.


----------



## fjnmusic

I really like Rachel Maddow's summary of the American Election on Tuesday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwXA7sHUlE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> I really like Rachel Maddow's summary of the American Election on Tuesday.
> 
> Rachel Maddow on Obama's Re-election - YouTube


:clap: She nailed it!


----------



## margarok

We have stopped watching all political news. Am hoping some kind of compromise is reached and that we get our fiscal house in order, but we are just really, really, really sick of the newspeak. I went to see Mary Poppins in downtown OKC today. Much better than watching anything on the news.

Don't misunderstand... I am interested in political issues and wish more people were informed and would take the time to learn more about the issues we face. But, I can't stand the news as entertainment industry and feel they do not help people understand anything except the us versus them mentality.


----------



## groovetube

fjnmusic said:


> I really like Rachel Maddow's summary of the American Election on Tuesday.
> 
> Rachel Maddow on Obama's Re-election - YouTube


I liked it so much that I posted that one as well! http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-236.html#post1230975


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> We have stopped watching all political news. Am hoping some kind of compromise is reached and that we get our fiscal house in order, but we are just really, really, really sick of the newspeak. I went to see Mary Poppins in downtown OKC today. Much better than watching anything on the news.


A spoon full of sugar will help the bad medicine go down.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> A spoon full of sugar will help the bad medicine go down.


Yes indeed! And it is supercalifragilisticexpealidocious! I modified my reply by the way... I don't want anyone to think I've given up being informed. I've just decided the screen what information I take in for a while.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Super article on how the GOP's IT system didn't work. And they wanted the keys to the whitehouse?

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/inside-team-romneys-whale-of-an-it-meltdown/


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Let the bells ring out and the banners fly! We are in agreement here.


Amen, Brother Macfury. From 1964-67, LBJ was able to get some of the greatest social legislation passed which still is felt today to help millions upon millions of people. Then, sadly, he got bogged down in Vietnam, and it all came to an end.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> :clap: She nailed it!


I agree!!!! :clap:

"And if the Republican party, and the conservative movement, and the conservative media is stuck in a vacuum sealed, door locked, spin cycle of telling each other what makes them feel good, and denying the factual, lived truth of the world, then we are all deprived, as a nation, of the constructive debate between competing, feasible ideas about real problems."


----------



## margarok

Anyone follow Ann Barnhardt's economic reasoning? (Some of her rants get passed around the prepper community here. We are on the fringe of that by association, not practice.)

The Economy Is Going To Implode Pt.1 of 8 

The Economy Is Going To Implode Pt.1 of 8 - YouTube


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> he Economy Is Going To Implode Pt.1 of 8


The manhandling of the economy is by far the biggest issue facing America, and it doesn't matter whether you live inside Rachel Maddow's bubble of lefty bliss or not. If you want "action" on the economy, you will have to live with the results of your meddling.


----------



## margarok

Part 7 has a really good explanation of what Credit Default Swaps and the impact of zero interest rate policy on our economic situation. Spooky indeed.


----------



## margarok

My husband and I just watched all 8 parts of Ann Barnhardt's economic presentation. We plan to raise grass-fed beef cattle to supplement our retirement, so have followed her commentary for a long time. However, after seeing this particular presentation?

We think we shall re-think our investments and position ourselves to relocate to our farmland next year. There is not only something rotten in Denmark... there's a LOT rotten in my country. 

Sometimes, we would like to live in Canada. We always enjoyed our Canadian Co-manning AWACS pals!


----------



## eMacMan

margarok said:


> My husband and I just watched all 8 parts of Ann Barnhardt's economic presentation. We plan to raise grass-fed beef cattle to supplement our retirement, so have followed her commentary for a long time. However, after seeing this particular presentation?
> 
> We think we shall re-think our investments and position ourselves to relocate to our farmland next year. There is not only something rotten in Denmark... there's a LOT rotten in my country.
> 
> Sometimes, we would like to live in Canada. We always enjoyed our Canadian Co-manning AWACS pals!


Be well aware the FUBAR fiasco should you try to make the move. Americans living abroad have to deal with a veritable jungle of IRS forms. All of which have Draconian penalties for failing to file them, or making a mistake in filling them out. Beyond FUBAR is Form 8938. It is incomprehensible but must be filled out by Americans having more than $50,000 or $200,000 (even that is not really clear) in non US assets not including the home. One for every account you have, even that iTunes account. Fine is the greater of $10,000 or half the account for failure to file, or not getting it right. The good news is that the IRS 800 phone numbers all stop at the border, they don't do eMail and mail responses are measured in months or years not days. Their suggested approach is to pay several thousand a year to have a consultant do your taxes even though it is extremely unlikely you will owe any taxes. I believe this is really the American version of the Iron curtain, the difference being that once you escaped the USSR you had indeed escaped.

Best bet is get your Canadian Citizenship as quickly as possible then renounce your US citizenship. Sadly starting from the move date that takes about 7 years. A minimum of four before you can apply then two more years to process the forms. Once you have your Canadian citizenship in hand it is a mere year or so for the US consulate to process the renunciation but you do have to go to a Consulate, which for people living in the prairies can be a thousand miles away. 

OTOH by the time you can apply for citizenship you will know whether or not you can handle Canadian winters.


----------



## steviewhy

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Be well aware the FUBAR fiasco should you try to make the move. Americans living abroad have to deal with a veritable jungle of IRS forms. All of which have Draconian penalties for failing to file them, or making a mistake in filling them out. Beyond FUBAR is Form 8938. It is incomprehensible but must be filled out by Americans having more than $50,000 or $200,000 (even that is not really clear) in non US assets not including the home. One for every account you have, even that iTunes account. Fine is the greater of $10,000 or half the account for failure to file, or not getting it right. The good news is that the IRS 800 phone numbers all stop at the border, they don't do eMail and mail responses are measured in months or years not days. Their suggested approach is to pay several thousand a year to have a consultant do your taxes even though it is extremely unlikely you will owe any taxes. I believe this is really the American version of the Iron curtain, the difference being that once you escaped the USSR you had indeed escaped.


You haven't yet provided a shred of evidence that the U.S. requires citizens living abroad to do any more than file returns--just as Canadians need to file returns if they are living in the U.S.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> You haven't yet provided a shred of evidence that the U.S. requires citizens living abroad to do any more than file returns--just as Canadians need to file returns if they are living in the U.S.


Spend a year or three reviewing the 70,000+ pages of US tax code. A week or so following issacbrock.com would also be illuminating. Believe me I am grossly understating the final impact on US citizens or for that matter anyone who might ever have lived or worked in the USA. The areas I covered were only for non-self employed people with no investments, no RRSPs, no special tax free savings accounts..................................

F(u)BAR requirements and form 8938 are easily found on the IRS site. The penalties are indeed as stated.


----------



## Dr.G.

Former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson won 1.1 million votes on Tuesday, more than any other Libertarian presidential candidate in history.

Read more: Interview with Gary Johnson, Libertarian Presidential Candidate | TIME.com


----------



## Dr.G.

The $4.2 billion election: Was it worth it? - CNN.com

Shocking ................ and my candidates, by and large, won .............. and I am still shocked. XX):greedy:


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> The $4.2 billion election: Was it worth it? - CNN.com
> 
> Shocking ................ and my candidates, by and large, won .............. and I am still shocked. XX):greedy:


So that works out to about $8Million$/Congressman or Senator. They have indeed been bought and paid for!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The $4.2 billion election: Was it worth it? - CNN.com


It's no different than a giant make-work project, and largely private funded. Good for the economy!


----------



## margarok

steviewhy said:


> I generally like the cut of this womans jib. While the presentation was pretty good, her religious talking points were a little...


She's got a really out there stand on religious points, but she's amazingly informed about the economic issues, in my opinion. I do think she's making an attempt to "burn herself at the tax stake" to focus attention on the issue. We shall see if anyone pays attention.

The tax issues are horrendous... my husband and I just wandered through the estate/probate issues due to his father's recent illness and passing... (He rests in peace; he was a very dear man, well-loved by his family and well-received beyond, I'm sure.) For you lawyer types? Phlttttt! We wrote our own pleas, affidavits, orders, etc. Once upon a long time ago, the common man could read and understand the law. So, he and I figured we could. And we did. 

Anyway, the tax issues are horrid.

AS for politics? Can you say John Kerry for Defense Secretary! Wow.:yikes:


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> AS for politics? Can you say John Kerry for Defense Secretary! Wow.:yikes:


Ouch! I see Obama delayed the announcement that another 500,000 people just applied for Food Stamps (SNAP). Unemployment is up to 7.9 per cent. Happy days are here again!


----------



## groovetube

It was 7.8 to 7.9 before election day. Hardly earth shattering news.


----------



## Rps

margarok said:


> We have stopped watching all political news. Am hoping some kind of compromise is reached and that we get our fiscal house in order, but we are just really, really, really sick of the newspeak. I went to see Mary Poppins in downtown OKC today. Much better than watching anything on the news.
> 
> Don't misunderstand... I am interested in political issues and wish more people were informed and would take the time to learn more about the issues we face. But, I can't stand the news as entertainment industry and feel they do not help people understand anything except the us versus them mentality.


Margarok, I have long held the view that all news is politically biased. I was wondering if you watch news about your country from other sources, such as CBC, BBC .... if so do you notice a trend, such as a conservative slant or a liberal slant. I live in Windsor Ontario right across from Detroit and I see a very deliberate right wing slant on talk radio, and very much so on Fox News channel ( we call it Faux News here ), but on the local Fox stations it seems more muted than their cable news network......thoughts. 

I am concerned about this as many people, today, take radio and TV coverage as their only source of information, bias, urban legend, and political falsehoods et al included. I think this has contributed to the "outrage" on demand that I see from here. This is very dangerous as those who do not research may become disassociated and are absorbed by this media driven false reality. Politics has always been a controversial subject, and from what I see in recent election campaigns using "fear and anger" are SOP with political parties.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> The $4.2 billion election: Was it worth it? - CNN.com
> 
> Shocking ................ and my candidates, by and large, won .............. and I am still shocked. XX):greedy:


How about Romney as Sec of Commerce for Obama ...... would it mend some fences?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> How about Romney as Sec of Commerce for Obama ...... would it mend some fences?


He would have to help deliver the Republican Congress to vote for the compromise to avert going over the "fiscal cliff", and I don't think that he could deliver on that issue.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> He would have to help deliver the Republican Congress to vote for the compromise to avert going over the "fiscal cliff", and I don't think that he could deliver on that issue.


Would be a strategic move though. What I'm not sure of is whether the GOP are grandstanding .... the trouble is that, if they are, they might carry it on for too long and do real damage, a point of no return if you will .... if they continue the rest of the world will have little faith in the U.S. leadership to govern and that will create a self-fullfilling prophesy leading to a further erosion of the economic recovery. I thought the U.S. President had the power to over ride and actually force things into law in these circumstances?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Would be a strategic move though. What I'm not sure of is whether the GOP are grandstanding .... the trouble is that, if they are, they might carry it on for too long and do real damage, a point of no return if you will .... if they continue the rest of the world will have little faith in the U.S. leadership to govern and that will create a self-fullfilling prophesy leading to a further erosion of the economic recovery. I thought the U.S. President had the power to over ride and actually force things into law in these circumstances?


I agree. If Romney was serious about how he is such a good businessman, then he could serve his country this way. We shall see.


----------



## bryanc

Rps said:


> Would be a strategic move though.


It would be if Romney were anything more than a figure head for a cabal of 1%ers who were trying to buy a president. His actual expertise consists of stripping the valuable assets from an organization, selling them at a profit, and offshoring the jobs; not skills that will help the U.S. economy at this point.

Furthermore, Obama's fiscal policy is already more like Saint Reagan's than any Democrat in history, and the GOP is still in full obstructionist mode, so I don't think there's any concession or compromise he could make to get them on board. Until the Republicans regain some sanity and/or take a genuine interest in the future of the U.S., I think the Democrats need to just start trying to bulldoze them. Do what they can now, and make as big a deal out of the obstructionist tactics used by Republicans in the House as possible until midterm elections can win a Democrat majority there too.

The majority of Republicans seem mired in a Medieval fantasy, so the Democrats should just leave them there to navel-gaze about their perfect world with Billionaire Kings served by armies of serfs, and get on with building a better and more equitable society.


----------



## Rps

bryanc, not sure it matters what Romney's lean is, the optic is "hands across the water". I have a great fear of the U.S. right now, both economically and politically. This, over any other election, has been bought with back door advertising. My fear is that this process has generated such anger within the populace that something has to give....it's very hard to combat hegemony that is financed by the 1%ers. On a global perspective, this view of a weakened U.S. only increases the chances of military expansionism .... we are really transported back to a pre-WW1 situation ... only this time it's economic imperialism when this happens, at least to me, war clouds are on the horizon.......


----------



## margarok

I do sense a lot of anger in the local population concerning the election. Some real fear over economic issues... Here in this very red state people are very aware that the current administration owes the state nada.

Presidents have passed unpopular measures using a questionable method called Executive Order. I have seen commentary that Obama has passed more EOs than any other president, but can't verify.

As for watching BBC? I'd like to, but only the occasional coverage on CSPAN. I read a few online news sites and commentary and visit your varied and learned opinions here.


----------



## bryanc

margarok said:


> As for watching BBC? I'd like to, but only the occasional coverage on CSPAN. I read a few online news sites and commentary and visit your varied and learned opinions here.


Getting perspectives from outside you're community is essential (as you are clearly aware).

Here are a few URLs you might like:

World news and comment from the Guardian | World news | The Guardian

BBC NEWS | Programmes | World News America

http://www.aljazeera.com/category/country/united-states

NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts : NPR


----------



## margarok

bryanc said:


> Here are a few URLs you might like:
> 
> World news and comment from the Guardian | World news | The Guardian
> 
> BBC NEWS | Programmes | World News America
> 
> http://www.aljazeera.com/category/country/united-states
> 
> NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts : NPR


Thank you for the links... Now I shall definitely be the most informed person in my neighborhood.


----------



## margarok

Rps said:


> bryanc, not sure it matters what Romney's lean is, the optic is "hands across the water". I have a great fear of the U.S. right now, both economically and politically. This, over any other election, has been bought with back door advertising. My fear is that this process has generated such anger within the populace that something has to give....it's very hard to combat hegemony that is financed by the 1%ers. On a global perspective, this view of a weakened U.S. only increases the chances of military expansionism .... we are really transported back to a pre-WW1 situation ... only this time it's economic imperialism when this happens, at least to me, war clouds are on the horizon.......


There is a real sense that some sort of turmoil (some use the term civil war but I have a hard time using that term) within the U.S. is around the corner. As for the anger against the 1%ers? What people like my husband and I resent/fear/worry is that those of us who have scrimped and saved for the kind of future we want for ourselves and our children will be targeted as being wealthy, accused of not having paid our fair share. We can imagine the day when some redistribution-minded politician looks at our hard-earned savings and says "Well, you didn't really save that."

We fear government confiscation of wealth. The 1% always manages to avoid paying the piper. Some of us seem to end up paying no matter what.


----------



## Dr.G.

It was a close race ............... but no gold ring for Romney.


----------



## bryanc

margarok said:


> What people like my husband and I resent/fear/worry is that those of us who have scrimped and saved for the kind of future we want for ourselves and our children will be targeted as being wealthy, accused of not having paid our fair share. We can imagine the day when some redistribution-minded politician looks at our hard-earned savings and says "Well, you didn't really save that."
> 
> We fear government confiscation of wealth. The 1% always manages to avoid paying the piper.  Some of us seem to end up paying no matter what.


Based on history and the current political morass, your fears are not unfounded. However, unless your idea of 'scrimping and saving' is stashing millions in off-shore bank accounts, I don't think you're the target of generalized resentment yet. So, short of complete societal collapse, the rule of law should protect you from having any assets confiscated.

It seems increasingly clear that the most plausible path to stability for the US is to follow the model of the UK; stop running about the globe trying to dominate and control everything, and start behaving as a civilized member of a community. If the US weren't trying to play global police/bully, it wouldn't need to spend such a massive proportion of its GDP on its military, and that alone would solve the financial problems. Obviously, given the economic activity associated with defence spending, you couldn't just cut your military spending by 90% overnight; but you could gradually shift that massive expenditure to domestic infrastructure/education/healthcare/etc, all of which will create as many or more jobs and knock-on economic activity as are currently supported by the MIC. The only losers in that scenario are the weapons manufactures.


----------



## margarok

bryanc said:


> However, unless your idea of 'scrimping and saving' is stashing millions in off-shore bank accounts, I don't think you're the target of generalized resentment yet. So, short of complete societal collapse, the rule of law should protect you from having any assets confiscated.
> 
> The only losers in that scenario are the weapons manufactures.


We have just gone through the probate process for my husband's father. The "rule of law" is not what we thought it was... 

Weapons manufacturers don't lose when they have politicians on the payroll. It will be our downfall...

Defense spending is probably 90% wasted, but you are right. Incremental cuts are the most we can hope for and the most we will get is a reduction in the amount of increase.


----------



## groovetube

the only wealth distribution in last while that has occurred has been more and more money being funnelled into the cash hoarders back accounts off shore.

This whole malarky about being penalized because you scrimped and saved to be successful only to have your small wealth scooped up, is nonsense. Fear mongering spread by the big money scared they might have to pay -their- fair share.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> the only wealth distribution in last while that has occurred has been more and more money being funnelled into the cash hoarders back accounts off shore.
> 
> This whole malarky about being penalized because you scrimped and saved to be successful only to have your small wealth scooped up, is nonsense. Fear mongering spread by the big money scared they might have to pay -their- fair share.


I hope you are correct, but we have just come through the fiasco of watching what happened to my father-in-law's estate once the "state" appointed an unscrupulous guardian and estate lawyer. And he was not a millionaire hoarder; just a frugal man who saved a tidy sum over his lifetime. However, elderly estate planners in this country appear to be elderly estate drainers. 

It isn't all malarky and I wouldn't use the word penalized to describe what I fear. I don't think the political class wants to punish us for saving money...I just think they want to be able to spend a chunk of it.


----------



## fjnmusic

Anthony Robbins has an informative video on just how far the US is in debt, and the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion dollars.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> I hope you are correct, but we have just come through the fiasco of watching what happened to my father-in-law's estate once the "state" appointed an unscrupulous guardian and estate lawyer. And he was not a millionaire hoarder; just a frugal man who saved a tidy sum over his lifetime. However, elderly estate planners in this country appear to be elderly estate drainers.
> 
> It isn't all malarky and I wouldn't use the word penalized to describe what I fear. I don't think the political class wants to punish us for saving money...I just think they want to be able to spend a chunk of it.


It's more like they prefer to keep taking it so they can hand it in useless tax cuts to the upper end with this BS about creating jobs.

There's the true wealth distribution. They're just scaring people like you into thinking it's your wealth, they want to redistribute :lmao:


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> It's more like they prefer to keep taking it so they can hand it in useless tax cuts to the upper end with this BS about creating jobs.
> 
> There's the true wealth distribution. They're just scaring people like you into thinking it's your wealth, they want to redistribute :lmao:


 
I suspect "they" think they know better than most of us how the money is best spent. I think that if "they" decide to come after what we have saved, they will just move the ones and zeros from our interest bearing (barely) account to a government bond. As far as scaring people like us... they are pretty scary.



I've seen the Anthony Robbins video before. It is a good one.


----------



## Dr.G.

People 'unliking' Romney on Facebook - CNN.com

Sad. When you are a winner, everyone is in your corner. Should you lose .................. well, then they quickly leave your corner.


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> I suspect "they" think they know better than most of us how the money is best spent. I think that if "they" decide to come after what we have saved, they will just move the ones and zeros from our interest bearing (barely) account to a government bond. As far as scaring people like us... they are pretty scary.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen the Anthony Robbins video before. It is a good one.


again, it's more likely the problem is the very top is worried they have to pay a little more taxes. It isn't about you. But they want you to believe it is...

Well, unless you're a multimillionaire ore more.


----------



## groovetube

I knew republicans were despondent but... holy...
Woman runs down husband because he failed to vote, letting Obama win


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I knew republicans were despondent but... holy...
> Woman runs down husband because he failed to vote, letting Obama win


 However, Pres. Obama did not carry the state of Arizona.


----------



## margarok

I went to Las Vegas with an Air Force group one time. A young man from North Carolina (think Gomer Pyle) won 5 dollars playing blackjack at the casino. On the ride back to base, he kept saying "I won FIVE DOLLARS!" and holding one hand with fingers spread apart to emphasize how much money he'd won. 

As the Anthony Robbins video illustrates, a few more tax dollars from the rich isn't going to help very much.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> As the Anthony Robbins video illustrates, a few more tax dollars from the rich isn't going to help very much.


It's a smokescreen for failed economic policies. The middle class is going to be paying for the programs that Obama has convinced them will be supported by the rich.


----------



## groovetube

oh I think they'll be paying for the wars and other failed moves far faaaaar, longer than anyone would be for social programs helping Americans affected by the disaster left by Bush and co.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> There is a real sense that some sort of turmoil (some use the term civil war but I have a hard time using that term) within the U.S. is around the corner. As for the anger against the 1%ers? What people like my husband and I resent/fear/worry is that those of us who have scrimped and saved for the kind of future we want for ourselves and our children will be targeted as being wealthy, accused of not having paid our fair share. We can imagine the day when some redistribution-minded politician looks at our hard-earned savings and says "Well, you didn't really save that."
> 
> We fear government confiscation of wealth. The 1% always manages to avoid paying the piper. Some of us seem to end up paying no matter what.


The math indicates that this is exactly what's going to happen. You'll be paying some sort of carbon tax or national sales tax and told all the time that those nasty rich people are taking it on the chin.


----------



## groovetube

I'm guessing we won't ever see this mythical "math" 

Much like we never saw it for the amazing mindblowingly superior poll math? :lmao::lmao:


----------



## margarok

I just got back from the grocery store and filled my gas tank. There's some math I wish was mythical.

When I was in journalism school, I learned how to frame survey questions to get the results I was after. So the fact that the polls were way off doesn't surprise me; what surprises me is that the analysts actually seemed to believe their own pack of lies!


----------



## groovetube

well apparently macfury had a much much smarter methodology than even the pollster who was almost bang on in every prediction. Though, we were never treated to, what that actually was. Now we're hearing more about this 'math' he keeps talking about, yet never ever, offers one shred of insight as to what this could possibly be. But it sure does help the thread go through some twists! yuk yuk!


----------



## margarok

Speaking of the math... I didn't follow MacFury's poll information regarding the election, but I think this article has some interesting findings regarding red, blue and income levels. (I just excerpted a couple of points)

You've Only Got Yourself To Blame | ZeroHedge

*You've Only Got Yourself To Blame*

_The questions of who are the 1% and what level of income demarcates the fat cats from the rest of Americans are likely to become more and more polarizing in the coming weeks. What is perhaps the most intriguing is the apparent dichotomy between the demographics (youth - who face considerably worse employment trends) and state-wealth who voted for Obama. As ConvergEx's Nick Colas notes, of all the U.S. states with an above-average incidence of their citizens earning over $200,000 (14 in total), all but one (Alaska) went for President Obama in last week’s election. At the other end of the income spectrum, only 2 states in the bottom 10 for +$200K earners (Maine and Iowa) had a majority of voters who sided with the President. _

_A few summary points:

•*The greater the percentage of households making over $200,000/year in a given state, the more likely it is that its citizens voted for President Obama rather than Governor Romney.* Of the top 10 states in terms of “high income” households as a percentage of the total state-wide population, nine of them will be awarding their Electoral College votes to Obama. The only holdout here is Alaska_

_*The central irony of this straightforward math is that any increase in income taxes on the “Wealthy” will be disproportionately borne by the states which secured the President’s reelection. * Only 1.87% of the households in the states mentioned in the last bullet – the Republican leaning ones – earn over $200,000. Conversely, an average of 6.48% of the households at the top end of the state-by-state list earns this much. And, as mentioned, with the exception of Alaska they all favored President Obama over Governor Romney._


----------



## groovetube

Interesting that the 'red' states tend to have less successful people.

And I've always hear how the 'left' need to have more dependant people or some kind of malarky.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> Speaking of the math... I didn't follow MacFury's poll information regarding the election....[/I][/QUOTEI
> 
> I assumed that the nationwide poll of voter self-ID was correct. It wasn't.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> margarok said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of the math... I didn't follow MacFury's poll information regarding the election....[/I][/QUOTEI
> 
> I assumed that the nationwide poll of voter self-ID was correct. It wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I heard a discussion about how some voters misrepresent their voting intentions to pollsters. I don't know if this is voter self-ID or not, but I suspect many people that are willing to take polls at all do NOT present their views accurately. In fact, I know a LOT of ill-informed voters who probably can't even express their views with complete sentences. And, once they express their views, will contradict their stated view without realizing it.
> 
> I know a man who is avidly against government programs for the poor. Yet, when his mother needed skilled nursing care, he hired an attorney to "spend her down" in order to qualify her for government assistance. But, elderly care is another can of worms....
Click to expand...


----------



## Dr.G.

Rick Perry doesn’t support secession petition on White House website – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

(CNN) – "An appeal calling on the federal government to allow Texas to "withdraw from the United States of America" following President Barack Obama's re-election doesn't have the support of the Lone Star State's governor, his office said in a statement Tuesday."

Whatever happened to that "Remember the Alamo" spirit once seen in Texas??? Luckily, "Oklahoma is OK", which helps to buffer this wimpy spirit from spreading northwards to Canada. Imagine if some in Quebec suddenly wanted to abandon nationalism and became Canadian federalists????


----------



## bryanc

margarok said:


> When I was in journalism school, I learned how to frame survey questions to get the results I was after. So the fact that the polls were way off doesn't surprise me; what surprises me is that the analysts actually seemed to believe their own pack of lies!


But the polls _weren't_ way off. They were spot on. It was the 'analysts' like the "UnSkewed" guy and MacFury who were convinced they were way off and needed to be "adjusted" because of their Democratic bias. The real analysts; the guys who know how to do statistics and who understand poling, did an excellent job and Nate Silver was able to use the poll data to correctly predict the outcome in every single state.



Macfury said:


> I assumed that the nationwide poll of voter self-ID was correct. It wasn't.


No, you said very explicitly that you presumed the polling was biased with respect to the voter allegiance, and therefore "corrected" your prediction away from the facts you didn't like until it supported the right wing fantasy of a sweeping Romney victory.

The poll data was correct. the self-ID was correct. Nate Silver was correct. The right-wing echochamber convinced itself the data was skewed because it predicted an Obama victory.


----------



## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> ...calling on the federal government to allow Texas to "withdraw from the United States of America"


I actually kind of think this is inevitable. The cultural divide between the solidly red states like Texas and the South and the solidly blue states like the West coast and New England is almost insurmountable.

I'd almost be inclined to let 'em go; they can form the United States of Jesusland, and have the fact-free theocracy they desire. Then the descendants of all the smart people who migrated to the blue states can move back in a couple generations, after the citizens of the red states have all shot each other over wether Fords or Chevys are better.


----------



## groovetube

though the land may be worthless after they've fracked themselves to death and have completely destroyed the water table and caused many earthquakes.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> though the land may be worthless after they've fracked themselves to death and have completely destroyed the water table and caused many earthquakes.


It could be a NASCAR museum


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> ...you said very explicitly that you presumed the polling was biased with respect to the voter allegiance, and therefore "corrected" your prediction away from the facts you didn't like until it supported the right wing fantasy of a sweeping Romney victory.


Not at all. I based voter I.D. on the very extensive Gallup survey of voter identification and make-up, then assumed a large margin of error and dialed back the Republican advantage to be on the safe side.

My assumptions about individual polls were based on the Gallup survey, not each poll.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I actually kind of think this is inevitable. The cultural divide between the solidly red states like Texas and the South and the solidly blue states like the West coast and New England is almost insurmountable.
> 
> I'd almost be inclined to let 'em go; they can form the United States of Jesusland, and have the fact-free theocracy they desire. Then the descendants of all the smart people who migrated to the blue states can move back in a couple generations, after the citizens of the red states have all shot each other over wether Fords or Chevys are better.



Freed from the onerous burdens of the federal government, the red states would float while the blues would sink--and be proud while they sunk. I'd enjoy watching the blue meltdown--where would they be without others to blame for their failed policies?


----------



## margarok

Dr.G. said:


> Rick Perry doesn’t support secession petition on White House website – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> (CNN) – "An appeal calling on the federal government to allow Texas to "withdraw from the United States of America" following President Barack Obama's re-election doesn't have the support of the Lone Star State's governor, his office said in a statement Tuesday."
> 
> Whatever happened to that "Remember the Alamo" spirit once seen in Texas??? Luckily, "Oklahoma is OK", which helps to buffer this wimpy spirit from spreading northwards to Canada. Imagine if some in Quebec suddenly wanted to abandon nationalism and became Canadian federalists????


Good one, Dr. G! I moved to Oklahoma in the 80s after joining the USAF and have been annoyed by the Oklahoma is OK slogan for almost 30 years. But they will definitely buffer Quebec against the onslaught of socialism! Well, as long as they continue to receive large sums of federal dollars for the military jobs here and the Indian Casino industry continues to thrive.

One of the prepper types in my little Family of Families group sent the information about the petition to secede and another answered it very well...

_Before you go putting your name on a petition basically calling for war within the country, think long and hard about what that really means if it were to actually happen.

_ 

Putting a bumper sticker on your car or a sign in your yard is your personal right. However, calling for the breakup of the country because your greedy self-serving pack of politicians didn't take the place of the other guy's greedy self-serving politicians is not war worthy. Move along.

That's my opinion. This morning anyway.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Freed from the onerous burdens of the federal government, the red states would float while the blues would sink--and be proud while they sunk. I'd enjoy watching the blue meltdown--where would they be without others to blame for their failed policies?


Is this another libertarian fantasy?

I'm guessing there's some mythical math that predicts this fantastic outcome as well!


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I actually kind of think this is inevitable. The cultural divide between the solidly red states like Texas and the South and the solidly blue states like the West coast and New England is almost insurmountable.
> 
> I'd almost be inclined to let 'em go; they can form the United States of Jesusland, and have the fact-free theocracy they desire. Then the descendants of all the smart people who migrated to the blue states can move back in a couple generations, after the citizens of the red states have all shot each other over wether Fords or Chevys are better.


I like my America united.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> Good one, Dr. G! I moved to Oklahoma in the 80s after joining the USAF and have been annoyed by the Oklahoma is OK slogan for almost 30 years. But they will definitely buffer Quebec against the onslaught of socialism! Well, as long as they continue to receive large sums of federal dollars for the military jobs here and the Indian Casino industry continues to thrive.
> 
> One of the prepper types in my little Family of Families group sent the information about the petition to secede and another answered it very well...
> 
> _Before you go putting your name on a petition basically calling for war within the country, think long and hard about what that really means if it were to actually happen.
> 
> _
> 
> Putting a bumper sticker on your car or a sign in your yard is your personal right. However, calling for the breakup of the country because your greedy self-serving pack of politicians didn't take the place of the other guy's greedy self-serving politicians is not war worthy. Move along.
> 
> That's my opinion. This morning anyway.


While I was working on my Ph.D. at the University of Georgia, we had a doctoral student from Tulsa, OK, who did NOT want us to use that phrase.

"But they will definitely buffer Quebec against the onslaught of socialism! " Not sure if that will happen since Quebec is probably the most socialist of provinces. They even have subsidized child care as fees less than Sweden!!


----------



## Rps

bryanc, I agree with your comments on polling .... it's the pundits who get it wrong and we can even look at our own election ( unless of of course you have a conservative bent and then they were right on! )


----------



## margarok

Dr.G. said:


> "But they will definitely buffer Quebec against the onslaught of socialism! " Not sure if that will happen since Quebec is probably the most socialist of provinces. They even have subsidized child care as fees less than Sweden!!


 I forgot the sarcasm tag.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G.;1232051They even have subsidized child care as fees less than Sweden!! :eek::eek::eek:[/QUOTE said:


> Don't mind subsidized day care but my lord they run theirs at $7 per day ..... or, one vente at Starbucks per day................ our tax dollars at work.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Don't mind subsidized day care but my lord they run theirs at $7 per day ..... or, one vente at Starbucks per day................ our tax dollars at work.


Gotta maintain that Ponzi scheme of ever-increasing population...


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Freed from the onerous burdens of the federal government, the red states would float while the blues would sink--and be proud while they sunk. I'd enjoy watching the blue meltdown--where would they be without others to blame for their failed policies?


once again i feel the need to point out that the red states are the welfare states, and take much more from the federal government then the tax they generate (in some cases 2+ dollars for every one they contribute)


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> once again i feel the need to point out that the red states are the welfare states, and take much more from the federal government then the tax they generate (in some cases 2+ dollars for every one they contribute)


However, amazingly the red states will fare better despite this fantastic fact!

You heard right from a 'libertarian'. Socialism will actually win!


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> I forgot the sarcasm tag.


I see. Well, I enjoyed my journey through OK when I was hitch hiking from Dallas to Denver.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Don't mind subsidized day care but my lord they run theirs at $7 per day ..... or, one vente at Starbucks per day................ our tax dollars at work.


True ............... and early childhood advocates and researchers show that these kids truly benefit from this quality childcare, especially children of immigrants. Then, their parents spoil them with thoughts of independence. C'est la vie.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Gotta maintain that Ponzi scheme of ever-increasing population...


Yes ..................... educated pre-schoolers become better students .......... until they join up with the PQ or the Bloc. 

Of course, now they are demanding free university tuition .................. without even a $7 a day charge for a university education.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Gotta maintain that Ponzi scheme of ever-increasing population...


look no further than the right to lifers


----------



## MacGuiver

Dr.G. said:


> Yes ..................... educated pre-schoolers become better students .......... until they join up with the PQ or the Bloc.
> 
> Of course, now they are demanding free university tuition .................. without even a $7 a day charge for a university education.


Thats what happens in a nanny state. A chicken in every pot until you inevitably end up like Greece.


----------



## groovetube

Amazingly enough, the US almost ended in a "Greece" with a republican government for 8 years.

8 years of a democrat government, and the economy was just fine. Sorta blows that theory out of the water pretty handily now doesn't it.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> Thats what happens in a nanny state. A chicken in every pot until you inevitably end up like Greece.


Agreed. I love the way people continue to try to draw attention to W's deficits, when Obama has added 60% to it in only four years.

Obama in 2008:



> The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back... That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.


Makes me nostalgic for the Bush years of relatively sane spending.


----------



## eMacMan

It occurs to me if the Government were to stop handing a Trillion or so a year to the Banksters in bailouts they could still come close to balancing the budget. If that should happen to put Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan ten toes up, so much the better. Then we could cancel whatever portion of the national debt is in their grubby little paws.


----------



## groovetube

You mean the sanity that actually led to the biggest financial crisis since the great depression? Then blame it on the next guy who had to try and clean it up? (not to mention inheriting a big spending bill to boot...)

I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you repeat it, it's still nonsense.

And incredibly, we are being treated to our conservative government who clearly has a serious spending problem. 

Facts, them damn facts...


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> It occurs to me if the Government were to stop handing a Trillion or so a year to the Banksters in bailouts they could still come close to balancing the budget. If that should happen to put Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan ten toes up, so much the better. Then we could cancel whatever portion of the national debt is in their grubby little paws.


How are they still handing a trillion a year to the banks? The deficits are structural, made worse by these occasional dollops of cash to banks.


----------



## groovetube

Well for starters, not starting wars that cost massive numbers would help...


----------



## Dr.G.

And so it begins once again. The race for the White House starts today ................ and ends on the first Tuesday in November, 2016.


(CNN) – Billionaire investor Warren Buffett said he hopes Hillary Clinton will become the first female president of the United States in 2016.

"I don't see how you could have anybody better qualified," Buffett told CNN's Poppy Harlow in an exclusive interview Wednesday about the current Secretary of State and 2008 White House hopeful.
CNN Political Ticker- All politics, all the time - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## eMacMan

macfury said:


> how are they still handing a trillion a year to the banks? The deficits are structural, made worse by these occasional dollops of cash to banks.


qe3


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> qe3


$40 billion. Also, the government owns the asset it buys from the bank so the cost is not as great as the purchase price by a long shot. It's a waste of money still, but not the trillions Barry is blowing elsewhere.


----------



## groovetube

40 billion? :lmao:

see this is where "picking winners" is y'know, ok.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sounds like Jacques Parizeau blaming it on the "ethnics". What about all the "gifts" Romney received from the various millionaires/billionaires???


(CNN) – Mitt Romney told donors on a call Wednesday that President Barack Obama outmatched him by offering "gifts" to African Americans, Hispanics and young voters, various news outlets have reported. 

"In each case they were very generous in what they gave to those groups," Romney said, according to The New York Times.
Reports: Romney says Obama won by offering ‘gifts’ to minorities and young voters – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## margarok

This is the topic of discussion at every coffee bar and water cooler!


Ron Paul: Secession Is an American Principle - YouTube!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> In each case they were very generous in what they gave to those groups," Romney said, according to The New York Times.


Obama Claus was hard at work.


----------



## groovetube

You know when the sour grapes are in full swing when republicans act as if they can't understand what promising people tons o dough is about.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> Obama Claus was hard at work.


I seem to have gotten a lump of coal.


----------



## CubaMark

*FFRF sues IRS to enforce church electioneering ban*



> The Freedom From Religion Foundation is taking the Internal Revenue Service to court over its failure to enforce electioneering restrictions against churches and religious organizations, calling it a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and of FFRF’s equal protection rights.





> As many as 1,500 clergy reportedly violated the electioneering restrictions on Sunday, Oct. 7, 2012, notes FFRF’s legal complaint. The complaint also references “blatantly political” full-page ads running in the three Sundays leading up to the presidential elections by the Billy Graham Evangelical Association.
> 
> FFRF, a state/church watchdog based in Madison, Wis., is asking the the federal court to enjoin IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman from continuing “a policy of non-enforcement of the electioneering restrictions against churches and religious organizations.”





> “Churches and religious organizations obtain a significant benefit as a result of being non-exempt from income taxation, while also being able to preferentially engage in electioneering, which is something secular tax-exempt organizations cannot do.”
> 
> This preferential tax exemption involves more than $100 billion annually in tax-free contributions to churches and religious organizations in the United States.


(Freedom From Religion Foundation)


----------



## groovetube

margarok said:


> I seem to have gotten a lump of coal.


Send it to Romney! He likes coal!


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> Send it to Romney! He likes coal!


I think I'd better hang on to it. I might need to heat my house this winter if the AMT tax policy becomes retroactive.


----------



## groovetube

Well, if Obama has his way, you'll be fine.


----------



## groovetube

Maine GOP Head Suspects Voter Fraud Because 'Dozens, Dozens Of Black People' Voted | ThinkProgress

Well you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how the republicans lost.

The 'urban vote'... hmmm, you mean where the highest number of people live?


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I think I'd better hang on to it. I might need to heat my house this winter if the AMT tax policy becomes retroactive.


Used to be a "rich person's" tax but can now be visited on people making a gross income of $75,000. However, if you find that your tax rate is too high at any income level, a fraction of that will be returned to you as part of a home heating support program.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> Used to be a "rich person's" tax but can now be visited on people making a gross income of $75,000. However, if you find that your tax rate is too high at any income level, a fraction of that will be returned to you as part of a home heating support program.


In the form of additional lumps of coal, no doubt. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

*Ron Paul's Farewell Address to the U.S. House of Representatives
November 14, 2012*



> This may well be the last time I speak on the House Floor. At the end of the year I’ll leave Congress after 23 years in office over a 36 year period. My goals in 1976 were the same as they are today: promote peace and prosperity by a strict adherence to the principles of individual liberty.
> 
> It was my opinion, that the course the U.S. embarked on in the latter part of the 20th Century would bring us a major financial crisis and engulf us in a foreign policy that would overextend us and undermine our national security.
> 
> To achieve the goals I sought, government would have had to shrink in size and scope, reduce spending, change the monetary system, and reject the unsustainable costs of policing the world and expanding the American Empire.
> 
> The problems seemed to be overwhelming and impossible to solve, yet from my view point, just following the constraints placed on the federal government by the Constitution would have been a good place to start.
> 
> How Much Did I Accomplish?
> 
> In many ways, according to conventional wisdom, my off-and-on career in Congress, from 1976 to 2012, accomplished very little. No named legislation, no named federal buildings or highways—thank goodness. In spite of my efforts, the government has grown exponentially, taxes remain excessive, and the prolific increase of incomprehensible regulations continues. Wars are constant and pursued without Congressional declaration, deficits rise to the sky, poverty is rampant and dependency on the federal government is now worse than any time in our history.
> 
> All this with minimal concerns for the deficits and unfunded liabilities that common sense tells us cannot go on much longer. A grand, but never mentioned, bipartisan agreement allows for the well-kept secret that keeps the spending going. One side doesn’t give up one penny on military spending, the other side doesn’t give up one penny on welfare spending, while both sides support the bailouts and subsidies for the banking and corporate elite. And the spending continues as the economy weakens and the downward spiral continues. As the government continues fiddling around, our liberties and our wealth burn in the flames of a foreign policy that makes us less safe.
> 
> The major stumbling block to real change in Washington is the total resistance to admitting that the country is broke. This has made compromising, just to agree to increase spending, inevitable since neither side has any intention of cutting spending.
> 
> The country and the Congress will remain divisive since there’s no “loot left to divvy up.”
> 
> Without this recognition the spenders in Washington will continue the march toward a fiscal cliff much bigger than the one anticipated this coming January.
> 
> I have thought a lot about why those of us who believe in liberty, as a solution, have done so poorly in convincing others of its benefits. If liberty is what we claim it is- the principle that protects all personal, social and economic decisions necessary for maximum prosperity and the best chance for peace- it should be an easy sell. Yet, history has shown that the masses have been quite receptive to the promises of authoritarians which are rarely if ever fulfilled.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> *Ron Paul's Farewell Address to the U.S. House of Representatives
> November 14, 2012*


Well, he was honest to the end. He stood by his beliefs, win or lose, and for that, I respect him. :clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

This portion of the speech is particularly salient:


> The wealth that we enjoyed and seemed to be endless, allowed concern for the principle of a free society to be neglected. As long as most people believed the material abundance would last forever, worrying about protecting a competitive productive economy and individual liberty seemed unnecessary.


President Obama is living on the remnants of an economy he is slowly strangling. Dividing up that shrinking pie provides only an illusion that something positive is being done for the nation.


----------



## groovetube

Yes Obama has totally destroyed that enviable position of nearly a million jobs lost a month and a near Great Depression.

How could he have strangled that!

Damn him


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> This portion of the speech is particularly salient:
> 
> 
> President Obama is living on the remnants of an economy he is slowly strangling. Dividing up that shrinking pie provides only an illusion that something positive is being done for the nation.


MacFury, I know we have had this discussion before, and I'm not really trying to introduce it here, but ..... no matter what happens in government the key to this is we have to truly define what our society means by the term democracy..... to me this is the key, one we define what that term means to us ( in the application of citizen and governmental responsibilities and duties ) then I think things will become much clearer in these discussions. People get the government they deserve ..... let's hope what they deserve is what they think they are getting.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I know we have had this discussion before, and I'm not really trying to introduce it here, but ..... no matter what happens in government the key to this is we have to truly define what our society means by the term democracy..... to me this is the key, one we define what that term means to us ( in the application of citizen and governmental responsibilities and duties ) then I think things will become much clearer in these discussions. People get the government they deserve ..... let's hope what they deserve is what they think they are getting.


President Obama made his economic "plans" clear to the populace and offered treats to his core supporters as an inducement to vote. It's democracy, sure, but democracy in its endgame--the type of finish warned about by Alexis de Tocqueville.


----------



## MacDoc

snort - still living in laissez faire land ....any excuse to deny reality.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> snort - still living in laissez faire land ....any excuse to deny reality.


The reality--unemployment still higher, economy faltering under the steady hand of the president. As I heard on the radio today: Al Qaeda alive, Hostess dead.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> President Obama made his economic "plans" clear to the populace and offered treats to his core supporters as an inducement to vote. It's democracy, sure, but democracy in its endgame--the type of finish warned about by Alexis de Tocqueville.


Not meaning to be argumentative here, but you must surely border on naive if you didn't think that Romney ( really all governmental leaders ) didn't have inducements for his followers as well. Ideology and rationality are not necessarily mutually exclusive but you don't have to try to raise them to an art form....................


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Not meaning to be argumentative here, but you must surely border on naive if you didn't think that Romney ( really all governmental leaders ) didn't have inducements for his followers as well. Ideology and rationality are not necessarily mutually exclusive but you don't have to try to raise them to an art form....................


I don't know that that will go anywhere.

People are content with the spoonfed pap handed out, the one liners like the Terrorist vs hostess etc.

It's too bad because it often never gets past this kind of dialog. Right now the sour grapes is just getting kinda tiring, the truth is, Romney simply didn't offer a very clear, sustainable option for America. Obama's isn't the best one, I think we know that. But so far, it's better than what the republicans can muster. If the republicans the next time can offer a better vision without the fast talking lies we heard, something that truly speaks to middle America, perhaps they will have better luck. But this position of griping about a president who focused on the average American, black, hispanic, Asian, -and- white (and anything in between) is not helping them win any more supporters. That's for sure.

However, remember when the conservatives here whined about how the liberals catered to the immigrant vote for so long? Well now look at 'em...


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not meaning to be argumentative here, but you must surely border on naive if you didn't think that Romney ( really all governmental leaders ) didn't have inducements for his followers as well. Ideology and rationality are not necessarily mutually exclusive but you don't have to try to raise them to an art form....................


He offered fewer financial voter inducements than Obama. Obama was elected this year's Santa Claus.


----------



## groovetube

More specifically, he offered more to the regular american voters, than to the rich corporations and their owners and board members.

Hmmm. Sounds about right.


----------



## Macfury

I was looking for the data that show that Democrats consume far more welfare payments than Republicans. The overall state-by-state results don't reflect the fact that it is the Democrats in the so-called "red states" who are jacking up the totals for those states.



> We see that in a two-party split, 60-80% of welfare recipients are Democrats, while full time Workers are evenly divided between parties.
> 
> Among the Long Term Unemployed, 72% of the two-party support goes to Democrats.





> *Share of Recipients of each program that self-identified as supporters of Republican party in 2004-2007 Maxwell Poll:*
> 
> Gov. Subsidized Housing 12%
> Medicaid: 16%
> Food Stamps: 20%
> Unemployment Compensation: 21%
> Welfare or public assistance: 22%
> Disability benefits from government 25%


Super-Economy: Are Welfare Recipients mostly Republican?


----------



## groovetube

Regardless of how these numbers are spun and spun to support whatever theory, there is one inescapable fact.

It was the 8 years of republican rule that put more people in need of welfare and food stamps than the democrats. One might wave their hands furiously about whether obama's policies are working fast enough (as if any credible person could believe this massive mess left by the republicans could actually be fixed in 4 years...) but that is a hard fact that is indisputable.

Sorry.

So if people who are in that position wants to vote democrat, that's hardly a surprise.


----------



## MacDoc

Long knives are out for Romney - not surprising given the Repuglies collective mental state.

Romney sinks quickly in Republicans’ esteem - The Washington Post


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Long knives are out for Romney - not surprising given the Repuglies collective mental state.
> 
> Romney sinks quickly in Republicans’ esteem - The Washington Post


"Heavy is the head that wears the crown."


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> I was looking for the data that show that Democrats consume far more welfare payments than Republicans. The overall state-by-state results don't reflect the fact that it is the Democrats in the so-called "red states" who are jacking up the totals for those states.
> 
> Super-Economy: Are Welfare Recipients mostly Republican?


Your reliance here on some cherry-picking blogger who misrepresents data to make it support his preconceived conclusions is very telling. Much like the climate change denial blogs and some of the blogs this year that concocted theories about biased election year polling -- which you appeared to subscribe to, -- this is agenda-driven nonsense, not data. But people such as yourself can post this junk to forums to make it look like they've got something to backup their predispositions. 

Providing links to garbage do not promote your arguments at all Macfury.

A selection of the comments on the blog post refuting the bloggers conclusions.



> Too bad you distort the poll to exclude Independent voters from your equation. I used your article in one of my classes to illustrate the need to evaluate source material. Thanks for reinforcing the need to check sources!





> It is lunacy to write an article and attach the links from the polls you are using and then provide misinformation. You state, “You have similar results in this recent NPR-Poll. Among the Long Term Unemployed, 72% of the two-party support goes to Democrats.”  The NPR poll states that 72% do not support the Tea Party. Period. To assume that one has to be Democrat if they don’t support the Tea Party undermines the whole use of polls to back up your information in the first place and has discredited any attempt you made to appear factual. The poll shows that 37% of the unemployed consider themselves Democrat - Factual. To state that 72% of the two party support goes to Democrats is unfounded and blatant misuse of the polling statistics to attempt to garner support for your theory.   Your article dismisses important information located on your very link in order to come up with an argument to prove your point.
> …..
> The use of misinformation discredited your entire article. Next time stick to the facts when making a point and you will be taken more seriously.





> You're report is misleading. Maxwell's survey included the following question regarding party affiliation. I've included the 2007 results.
> Q: Politically, do you generally regard yourself as liberal, moderate, or conservative, or do none of those apply? (2007)
> Liberal - 24.9
> Moderate - 28.6
> Conservative - 34.2
> None - 12.3





> I find it strange that you would criticize Krugman for making misleading generalizations, and then turn around and post a graph which appears to be representative of the entire nation, rather than the specific red states in question.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Your reliance here on some cherry-picking blogger who misrepresents data to make it support his preconceived conclusions is very telling. Much like the climate change denial blogs and some of the blogs this year that concocted theories about biased election year polling -- which you appeared to subscribe to, -- this is agenda-driven nonsense, not data. But people such as yourself can post this junk to forums to make it look like they've got something to backup their predispositions.
> 
> Providing links to garbage do not promote your arguments at all Macfury.
> 
> A selection of the comments on the blog post refuting the bloggers conclusions.


It's not the conclusions of the blogger--its just a convenient link to this study, which makes its own conclusions:

Campbell Public Affairs Institute: Merged Data Set

Funny that you should be fixated on the bloggers.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Long knives are out for Romney - not surprising given the Repuglies collective mental state.
> 
> Romney sinks quickly in Republicans’ esteem - The Washington Post


This is pure nonsense. We're not in a parliamentary system where the former candidate would play any role in government. There are a few chicken sh*ts taking pot shots at him, but nothing like what the article is describing.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> It's not the conclusions of the blogger--its just a convenient link to this study, which makes its own conclusions:
> 
> Campbell Public Affairs Institute: Merged Data Set
> 
> Funny that you should be fixated on the bloggers.


Ha! Nice try my slippery friend, except you quoted the misleading conclusions of the blogger and his words from his blog. The misrepresentations that you quoted are not in either of the links the blogger posted to the two polls. Twist away.


----------



## groovetube

it's important to him. But as I said earlier, it makes no difference actually, but it keeps 'im busy.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> "Heavy is the head that wears the crown."


And he didn't even get to wear the crown after all that effort! Though I'm sure he could afford to buy a different crown for every day of the week if he wanted to.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Ha! Nice try my slippery friend, except you quoted the misleading conclusions of the blogger and his words from his blog. The misrepresentations that you quoted are not in either of the links the blogger posted to the two polls. Twist away.



Sorry. I meant to exclude the NPR poll, which I did not trust. However, the other numbers I quoted are in the Maxwell data set.


----------



## groovetube

true, you have a great track record of polls. :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And he didn't even get to wear the crown after all that effort! Though I'm sure he could afford to buy a different crown for every day of the week if he wanted to.


Well, he wanted "that" particular crown. Such is Life. Wonder what he is going to do now?


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he wanted "that" particular crown. Such is Life. Wonder what he is going to do now?


Maybe he could make helpful documentary films like Al Gore did.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Maybe he could make helpful documentary films like Al Gore did.


We shall see. Luckily, he can always apply for food stamps, UI and medicare if things get too rough for him financially.


----------



## Sonal

Pundit Shaming


----------



## jimbotelecom

Nothing like skewed pundits and armchair observers. The electorate had bad memories of Bush, Cheney, Pearle, Wolfowitz and the Neo-Con cabal.

Never forget!


----------



## Macfury

jimbotelecom said:


> Nothing like skewed pundits and armchair observers. The electorate had bad memories of Bush, Cheney, Pearle, Wolfowitz and the Neo-Con cabal.
> 
> Never forget!


They are forgetting because the Obama administration is replacing these memories with bad memories of its own.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> They are forgetting because the Obama administration is replacing these memories with bad memories of its own.


Your skewed opinion is well noted here. Happily the electorate blamed Bush for the current woes. Lest we forget.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Sorry. I meant to exclude the NPR poll, which I did not trust. However, the other numbers I quoted are in the Maxwell data set.


Macfury, your track record in this forum where you attempt to link to anything you describe as "facts" or "data" does not inspire confidence.

In this case, first you link to some blogger's concocted opinion based on his fictional interpretation of 2 polls and also quote his words as something that's supposed to appear as somehow factual.

Then, when called on it, you disavow the blogger you quoted and linked to and say that it was the polls he relied upon that you were really interested in. But you did not quote from those polls or link to them originally, you linked to and quoted the blogger, so your restatement appears to be merely self-serving.

Then, when called on this, you disavow one of the polls and say that your blogger's concocted conclusions, which you posted here, are actually supported in the one poll he used that you claim to trust.

I'm looking at both the appendix .doc to the Maxwell poll and the Excel data set for it, that I downloaded from the Maxwell links, and do not see those conclusions supported in the data. 

Now I'm no statistician, nor do I claim to be, but I can't see how those conclusions are supported in the data. Unless you can find the quotes in that data that your blogger posted and that you seem to support, I'm calling BS on this. 

I think that the critics of your blogger appear to be bang-on in their criticism, -- nothing but misleading interpretations masquerading as facts.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Sonal said:


> Pundit Shaming


That was rather satisfying, seeing the arrogant builders of BS Mountain called out as shills.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I think that the critics of your blogger appear to be bang-on in their criticism, -- nothing but misleading interpretations masquerading as facts.


Do you?


----------



## jimbotelecom

Macfury said:


> Do you?


Thanks for that. I'll run it by a u.s. based statistician for a critique.


----------



## groovetube

Like the energizer bunny.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Key Findings from The Maxwell Poll

• Inequality in the distribution of income continues to increase.
• A plurality of Americans think inequality will continue to increase.
• Over 40 percent of Americans see inequality as a serious problem.
• Over 50 percent of Americans think government should do more about the problem of inequality.
• Republicans and Democrats differ significantly in their views about inequality and the obligation of government to try to do something about it. Those differences will likely play a role in creating a debate about the issue of inequality during the 2008 presidential campaign.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> Do you?
> http://www.ehmac.ca/attachments/eve...3193352-american-political-thread-maxwell.jpg


Macfury, you're amazing. When confronted you do not defend your point, you twist in another direction and try to change the discussion. You have a unique talent.

Firstly, the document you imaged was not linked in your original blogger's comments, nor in the link to the dataset you offered as confirming your blogger's conclusions. I had to do a search using words from your imaged document to find the actual pdf you imaged. (Incidentally the link you could have offered to get the pdf you imaged is here: http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/uploaded...nAmericanSocietyReportonMaxwellPollof2007.pdf).

Secondly, the information in page 19 of the pdf document does not support the quotes from the blogger either. To re-cap, your blogger said the following which you claimed was supported in the poll data:



> Share of Recipients of each program that self-identified as supporters of Republican party in 2004-2007 Maxwell Poll:
> 
> Gov. Subsidized Housing 12%
> Medicaid: 16%
> Food Stamps: 20%
> Unemployment Compensation: 21%
> Welfare or public assistance: 22%
> Disability benefits from government 25%


That "data" is nowhere in the documents, either in your first link to the dataset documents, or in your imaged page from the pdf that I found and linked. So I still call BS on your original statement.


----------



## groovetube

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Macfury, you're amazing. When confronted you do not defend your point, you twist in another direction and try to change the discussion. You have a unique talent.


I have a word for that, since it fits perfectly. Quite a few other members have the same one I have heard, but we can't utter it apparently.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Skewed as in skewered.


----------



## Dr.G.

Socialism Explained - Abbott & Costello Explain The Stimulus Plan - YouTube

Abbott & Costello Explain The Stimulus Plan 

Who's on first????????????????? Who's on first? - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Is he getting soft??? At least Romney blamed the loss on Pres. Obama's "gifts" to the "47%". 

(CNN) - Rep. Paul Ryan described his election loss with Mitt Romney last week as a painful surprise but argued the president won re-election "fair and square," according to the congressman's interviews with local news outlets in Wisconsin on Monday.


----------



## jimbotelecom

Dr.G. said:


> Is he getting soft??? At least Romney blamed the loss on Pres. Obama's "gifts" to the "47%".
> 
> (CNN) - Rep. Paul Ryan described his election loss with Mitt Romney last week as a painful surprise but argued the president won re-election "fair and square," according to the congressman's interviews with local news outlets in Wisconsin on Monday.


Considering his own state voted Obama he's kissing some Wisconsin butt.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> That "data" is nowhere in the documents, either in your first link to the dataset documents, or in your imaged page from the pdf that I found and linked. So I still call BS on your original statement.


Indeed it is, but the second document failed to upload. Will try something else to make it read here.


----------



## Dr.G.

jimbotelecom said:


> Considering his own state voted Obama he's kissing some Wisconsin butt.


Maybe he drank the "Etch-a-Sketch" Kool Ade .................. or is suffering from Romnesia???


----------



## Dr.G.

Is Black Friday edging out Thanksgiving? - CNN.com

A sad commentary on American consumerism/commercialism.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Is Black Friday edging out Thanksgiving? - CNN.com
> 
> A sad commentary on American consumerism/commercialism.


I find the willingness of consumers to engage in this to be disconcerting.


----------



## groovetube

An unaccounted for result of, er, freedom?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I find the willingness of consumers to engage in this to be disconcerting.


I agree ............ at least on American Thanksgiving. The 4th Thursday in November was always a day ........ a full day ....... of being with family. Granted, while I was in university, I did spend a bit of time working on assignments, but mostly just reading at home.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> An unaccounted for result of, er, freedom?


Well, it is the American consumer that will help to pull the economy up, along with small business doing more hiring. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it is the American consumer that will help to pull the economy up, along with small business doing more hiring. We shall see.


I agree. Small business is a huge contributor to jobs growth. Mine being a good example ( though my numbers are modest).


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from CNN -- Rubio pulling out of one race ......................

“I am not, nor will I ever be, a candidate for … offensive coordinator of Iowa. I know there’s rumors,” he joked to Iowans at a fundraiser for Gov. Terry Branstad’s birthday, adding he would have been in the NFL “if not for my lack of size, speed and talent.”

There were laughs, but the announcement of Rubio’s trip last week to the Hawkeye State drew even further speculation of a possible 2016 bid for the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) - Newt Gingrich had harsh words Sunday for GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s suggestion that he lost the election because President Barack Obama offered “gifts” to African-Americans, Hispanics, and young voters. 

“I just think it’s nuts,” Gingrich said on ABC. “I mean, first of all, it's insulting.”

“The job of a political leader in part is to understand the people. If we can't offer a better future that is believable to more people, we're not going to win,” said Gingrich, who launched blistering attacks on Romney last spring while seeking the presidential nomination himself.


----------



## Macfury

Perhaps in four years the Republicans can fashion a basket of goodies that don't cost too much.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Perhaps in four years the Republicans can fashion a basket of goodies that don't cost too much.


Good idea, Macfury. Sadly, Pres. Obama is not budging in giving back the tax breaks to the wealthies Americans. Those one-percenters need some gooodies as well. Of course, their goodies will most likely prove costly. Such is Life.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce

Macfury said:


> GratuitousApplesauce said:
> 
> 
> 
> That "data" is nowhere in the documents, either in your first link to the dataset documents, or in your imaged page from the pdf that I found and linked. So I still call BS on your original statement.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it is, but the second document failed to upload. Will try something else to make it read here.
Click to expand...

Sure you will MF. Sure you will.

I understand, posting an image on ehMac is hard. Let us know if you need some technical advice now.


----------



## MacDoc

> Perhaps in four years the Republicans can fashion a basket of goodies that don't cost too much.


They've not been very good at that.....fiscal responsibility not their strong point....catering to the military-industrial complex has been tho.....didn't get them elected this time.


----------



## groovetube

This has been shown many times over but still he manages to take us around in circles over and over again. I think same bit of info was posted about 10 times now.


----------



## Macfury

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Sure you will MF. Sure you will.
> 
> I understand, posting an image on ehMac is hard. Let us know if you need some technical advice now.


Tried to put up a chunk of spreadsheet, but it's too big. I'm not very proficient in Excel, but I'm trying to trim off unneeded info without destroying the data. Do not despair.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> They've not been very good at that.....fiscal responsibility not their strong point....catering to the military-industrial complex has been tho.....didn't get them elected this time.


MacDoc, how many times are people going to post that piece of tripe? The Obama figure uses the economic stimulus package of a trillion dollars in the baseline. Obama's actual rate of spending increase is 5.5%--about three times the rate of inflation. Check the inflation rates when Reagan was president--they approached the increases in spending. 

The facts about the growth of spending under Obama - The Washington Post



> Another problem with Nutting’s analysis is that the figures are viewed in isolation. Even 5.5 percent growth would put Obama between Bill Clinton and George W. Bush in terms of spending growth, but that does not take into account either inflation or the relative size of the U.S. economy. At 5.2 percent growth, Obama’s increase in spending would be nearly three times the rate of inflation. Meanwhile, Nutting pegs Ronald Reagan with 8.7 percent growth in his first term — we get 12.5 percent CAGR — but inflation then was running at 6.5 percent.


Obama is a truly a spending champion.


----------



## groovetube

Interesting that his own link didn't come to that conclusion.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, at least he is being honest ............. and getting an early start to round up the votes of creationists before the primaries in 2015.

Washington (CNN) – Florida Sen. Marco Rubio attempted to walk the line between science and faith-based creationism in remarks that that have provoked the ire of liberal blogs, leaving the door open to creationism in responding to a recent question about the age of the Earth.

When GQ’s Michal Hainey asked Rubio, in an interview released Monday, “How old do you think the Earth is,” the rising Republican star described the debate about the planet’s age as “one of the great mysteries.”

“I'm not a scientist, man,” Rubio told the interviewer. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.”

“Whether the Earth was created in seven days, or seven actual eras,” Rubio continued, “I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.”

Rubio ignites debate with answer about creationism – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## groovetube

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ca-and-create-its-own-new-government/rGN3YkRS

84 signatures so far.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ca-and-create-its-own-new-government/rGN3YkRS
> 
> 84 signatures so far.


Right on, Brother. "No taxation without representation". :clap:


----------



## Rps

Finished watching "The Dust Bowl" last night. There was an interesting comment made about the actions of FDR, if you were wealthy the Okies were just lazy and were in the vast make work project, but if you were poor it was a life line that helped kick start a recovery.................... just thought I'd toss this in here.


----------



## bryanc

*If Fox News had been reporting the events of history*

If Fox News was around.... » Fox News spin we know and love through History


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Finished watching "The Dust Bowl" last night. There was an interesting comment made about the actions of FDR, if you were wealthy the Okies were just lazy and were in the vast make work project, but if you were poor it was a life line that helped kick start a recovery.................... just thought I'd toss this in here.


Watched the series as well. Not sure if I came away with the same interpretation. What lead you to this opinion? Just curious.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G it was a direct quote from one of the Okies. It must have been one of those things that unless you saw it ( the dust storms and their effect ) you probably didn't understand their plight.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Dr. G it was a direct quote from one of the Okies. It must have been one of those things that unless you saw it ( the dust storms and their effect ) you probably didn't understand their plight.


The Okies were given welfare. It may have spared them from starving, but it did not kick start a recovery.


----------



## Rps

It did where they lived.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G it was a direct quote from one of the Okies. It must have been one of those things that unless you saw it ( the dust storms and their effect ) you probably didn't understand their plight.


I just rewatched that part of the Dust Bowl series. I misread your comment. I found it amazing that there were farmers in Kansas, OK, Texas and Colorado who stayed on their land, and would make someone like Macfury seem like a socialist, ask the federal government for help after six years of drought. Luckily, Roosevelt was there for them as he was for the tenant farmer, the migrants, and the poor and disposessed throughout the country. I found the comment of one Texas farmer's son say that he never voted for the Democrats, but he was going to vote for FDR this time around. As you say, one would have had to gone through what they did during the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl drought to understand and appreciate the various programs that the New Deal brought about for millions upon millions of people. It is easy to complain about assistance for those in need when one has enough to eat, a home and a job.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Okies were given welfare. It may have spared them from starving, but it did not kick start a recovery.


No, the rain help "kick start" the recovery for the land in the Dust Bowl. As for the people, they were looking to survive another day. Watch the series and tell me what you would have done differently.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> It did where they lived.


I liked the part with FDR's stop in Amarillo, Texas, when in the middle of his speech, it started to rain. That was at the start of his 4000 mile journey around the various part of the US hit by the drought.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, the rain help "kick start" the recovery for the land in the Dust Bowl. As for the people, they were looking to survive another day. Watch the series and tell me what you would have done differently.



Poor farming practices by the Okies, among other prairie farmers, was the prime cause of the problem. The drought merely made it worse. 

I may have handed out welfare to the Okies, but I would certainly not tout this as some sort of recovery. It's temporary maintenance at best.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Poor farming practices by the Okies, among other prairie farmers, was the prime cause of the problem. The drought merely made it worse.
> 
> I may have handed out welfare to the Okies, but I would certainly not tout this as some sort of recovery. It's temporary maintenance at best.


True, which is what the series brought out vividly. This is why the Soil Conservation Agency went out to try and get farmers to change the way they plowed the lands.

Not sure who touted this as a "recovery" for the farmers. They were given assistance to help them survive. Then, when the rains finally did return, they were given help to plant certain crops, not plant parts of their fields, plant in a soil-friendly manner and provided money for seed. The onset of the war, along with the rain, brought about the real recovery for many farmers.

You have yet to say what you would have done differently on March 4th, 1933 to bring about a recovery for the US, and to help prevent mass starvation throughout the US.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You have yet to say what you would have done differently on March 4th, 1933 to bring about a recovery for the US, and to help prevent mass starvation throughout the US.


I have given it some thought.

The biggest problem is that both FDR and his predecessor thought they could manipulate the economy into prosperity--they did not seem to be in disagreement, and both of them played the roles of King Canut with relish.

So do you want me to tell you what I would have done as Hoover in 1929, or as FDR as he continued following the disastrous interventionist policies of Hoover in 1933?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I have given it some thought.
> 
> The biggest problem is that both FDR and his predecessor thought they could manipulate the economy into prosperity--they did not seem to be in disagreement, and both of them played the roles of King Canut with relish.
> 
> So do you want me to tell you what I would have done as Hoover in 1929, or as FDR as he continued following the disastrous interventionist policies of Hoover in 1933?


You have just told the nation that "We have nothing to fear but fear itself ...." Now, it is up to you to do something ............ anything ............ to help the people of the US. If the business economy is your priority, fine, just do something. If the banking system is your priority, fine, just do something. If helping people find work, or to keep from starving is your priority, fine, just do something. Remember, on March 4th, a quarter of the workforce was unemployed. Farmers were in deep trouble as prices fell by 60%. Industrial production had fallen by more than half since 1929. Two million were homeless. By the evening of March 4, 32 of the 48 states – as well as the District of Columbia – had closed their banks. 

Luckily, for the US, with FDR as president on March 4th, 1933, he was prepared for action on day one and undertook this "full court press" (to use a basketball analogy).

The ball is now in your court. You blast FDR for what he did ................... now it is time for you to take your shot.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Poor farming practices by the Okies, among other prairie farmers, was the prime cause of the problem. The drought merely made it worse.
> 
> I may have handed out welfare to the Okies, but I would certainly not tout this as some sort of recovery. It's temporary maintenance at best.


Let's get real here, hindsight is 20/20. They were in the beginning stages of the Agri-business they either didn't know, or care, about what they thought were primitive farming practices ( and the movie high lights that currently that area has moved away from the remedial measure taken to prevent it .... what goes around comes around ) So they explored the land for economic benefit and were encouraged to do so by the culture of the day ....( sound familiar think investment banking both in 29' and 08' ) .


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> The ball is now in your court. You blast FDR for what he did ................... now it is time for you to take your shot.


Dr. G, I think the answer to your question is what FDR didn't do, which was dither with the government, he made a series of very difficult and some would say experimental decisions and followed through. But I wonder sometimes, and forgive me for saying this, if we didn't have WW2, where things might have wound up............


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Let's get real here, hindsight is 20/20. They were in the beginning stages of the Agri-business they either didn't know, or care, about what they thought were primitive farming practices ( and the movie high lights that currently that area has moved away from the remedial measure taken to prevent it .... what goes around comes around ) So they explored the land for economic benefit and were encouraged to do so by the culture of the day ....( sound familiar think investment banking both in 29' and 08' ) .


True, but there were agents of the Soil Conservation Agency, and the AAA, that were trying to convince farmers to plow their fields differently.


----------



## Rps

Agreed, but like all things which involve change, unless you get a critical mass going it's hard to get results..... even when the circumstances leading to the difference techniques were dramatic......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I think the answer to your question is what FDR didn't do, which was dither with the government, he made a series of very difficult and some would say experimental decisions and followed through. But I wonder sometimes, and forgive me for saying this, if we didn't have WW2, where things might have wound up............


Yes, I would agree with this contention. WWII did, in fact, bring the Great Depression to a halt as the war economy boomed. However, where Macfury and I disagree is that I feel that things would have been dramatically worse had FDR done nothing, as was seen in the Hoover administration. This is why I have asked him to tell me what he would have done differently under the same circumstances. While I feel that FDR is the greatest president the US has ever elected, I would not say I was a total supporter, in that I would not have agreed with his attempt to "pack" the Supreme Court.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Agreed, but like all things which involve change, unless you get a critical mass going it's hard to get results..... even when the circumstances leading to the difference techniques were dramatic......


True ............... and things back then were critical. A do-nothing approach with a touch of Social Darwinism would have been the recipe for revolution and a great social upheaval. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, I think we have to look at eras when we choose who is the greatest in anything. But I'm not challenging your choice here. I sometimes wonder if Truman is over looked as well as Johnson.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I think we have to look at eras when we choose who is the greatest in anything. But I'm not challenging your choice here. I sometimes wonder if Truman is over looked as well as Johnson.


Well, FDR faced the Depression and WWII, which is why I feel he is #1. Lincoln would be #2 .......... Washington #3 ........... LBJ #4 ................. and "give 'em hell, Harry" would be in my top 10. I know that this is going to bring about an outcry from some in this thread, but I am stating what I feel.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Well, FDR faced the Depression and WWII, which is why I feel he is #1. Lincoln would be #2 .......... Washington #3 ........... LBJ #4 ................. and "give 'em hell, Harry" would be in my top 10. I know that this is going to bring about an outcry from some in this thread, but I am stating what I feel.


Well I think your choices are well founded based on history, can't argue with them. It's funny but in Canada I think we cherish the leaders that never were, such as Douglas and Lemarsh and Layton.......maybe it's a Canadian thing but I sometimes feel that we have had better "losers" than winners in the Prime Minister races.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well I think your choices are well founded based on history, can't argue with them. It's funny but in Canada I think we cherish the leaders that never were, such as Douglas and Lemarsh and Layton.......maybe it's a Canadian thing but I sometimes feel that we have had better "losers" than winners in the Prime Minister races.


Interesting point, Rp. Same in the US, however, with Hubert Humphrey coming to mind .................. along with Robert Kennedy.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I think the answer to your question is what FDR didn't do, which was dither with the government, he made a series of very difficult and some would say experimental decisions and followed through. But I wonder sometimes, and forgive me for saying this, if we didn't have WW2, where things might have wound up............


An interesting question. And truthfully without WW2 the recovery would have been much slower. But then, it does take a while to come out of such a bad financial meltdown, as the US is painfully finding out.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> An interesting question. And truthfully without WW2 the recovery would have been much slower. But then, it does take a while to come out of such a bad financial meltdown, as the US is painfully finding out.


True to a point, gt. Still, you make a valid point in that it takes time to come out of a deep depression or a severe recession. However, as some would contend, the best thing is for the government to take a "hands off" policy and let the markets stabalize themselves. Easily stated ............... unless you are one of the millions without work, food, shelter, clothing ........... and hope. That is what FDR did and what Pres. Obama has tried to do. FDR was far more successful at this undertaking than Pres. Obama, but both did what they were able to do under the circumstances.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> True to a point, gt. Still, you make a valid point in that it takes time to come out of a deep depression or a severe recession. However, as some would contend, the best thing is for the government to take a "hands off" policy and let the markets stabalize themselves. Easily stated ............... unless you are one of the millions without work, food, shelter, clothing ........... and hope. That is what FDR did and what Pres. Obama has tried to do. FDR was far more successful at this undertaking than Pres. Obama, but both did what they were able to do under the circumstances.


FDR was far more successful? I don't know. As stated, he had WW2 to help.

As far as markets stabilizing themselves, well, it was their unfettered greed that got them there in the first place. Of course, this leads to what constitutes what is good government meddling, and what isn't. Valid debate for sure. Though there's the one's who steadfastly believe it wasn't the greed but 'leftie policy' that caused it. Nonsense. But I've heard some especially libertarians repeat this mantra without anything concrete to back it up.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> FDR was far more successful? I don't know. As stated, he had WW2 to help.
> 
> As far as markets stabilizing themselves, well, it was their unfettered greed that got them there in the first place. Of course, this leads to what constitutes what is good government meddling, and what isn't. Valid debate for sure. Though there's the one's who steadfastly believe it wasn't the greed but 'leftie policy' that caused it. Nonsense. But I've heard some especially libertarians repeat this mantra without anything concrete to back it up.


There would have been revolts in the streets of the US, as well as people starving to death throughout the US, had he done nothing. 

To me, "good government meddling" is when there is great need and dire consequences will arise from doing nothing. Help is needed and help is provided, be it in the form of jobs (e.g, WPA) or help for those in need of food and shelter. As for the libertarian "mantra", I have never been an advocate of social Darwinism or "survival of the fittest" when people are in true need through no fault of their own. It is easy to take a "do nothing" policy when you are not in desperate need of help.


----------



## Dr.G.

Luckily, FDR gained the courage and the strength to do something positive for Americans.
The Great Depression- The Road To Rock Bottom - YouTube

Stories from the Great Depression - YouTube

Luckily, he was strong enough to get America through the Depression. It is sad to see him age in his last term as the second world war took a great deal out of him, health-wise.
FDR Dies, 1945 - YouTube


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> There would have been revolts in the streets of the US, as well as people starving to death throughout the US, had he done nothing.
> 
> To me, "good government meddling" is when there is great need and dire consequences will arise from doing nothing. Help is needed and help is provided, be it in the form of jobs (e.g, WPA) or help for those in need of food and shelter. As for the libertarian "mantra", I have never been an advocate of social Darwinism or "survival of the fittest" when people are in true need through no fault of their own. It is easy to take a "do nothing" policy when you are not in desperate need of help.


precisely. I'm in agreement. Libertarianism may have worked say at least a 100 years ago, but it would prove disastrous now. I don't mean to insinuate FDR wasn't successful, just that I think Obama is rather successful as well. 

Again, the idea that this deep financial hole, like in the 30s could be fixed in less than 4 years as floated by the republicans is sheer lunacy.


----------



## Rps

groovetube said:


> the idea that this deep financial hole, like in the 30s could be fixed in less than 4 years as floated by the republicans is sheer lunacy.


In total agreement.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well I think your choices are well founded based on history, can't argue with them. It's funny but in Canada I think we cherish the leaders that never were, such as Douglas and Lemarsh and Layton.......maybe it's a Canadian thing but I sometimes feel that we have had better "losers" than winners in the Prime Minister races.


I don't cherish them at all. They were losers for a good reason.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> precisely. I'm in agreement. Libertarianism may have worked say at least a 100 years ago, but it would prove disastrous now. I don't mean to insinuate FDR wasn't successful, just that I think Obama is rather successful as well.
> 
> Again, the idea that this deep financial hole, like in the 30s could be fixed in less than 4 years as floated by the republicans is sheer lunacy.


Well, Pres. Obama was somewhat successful, but not as much as FDR. From what I have studied about the times back then, and from what my mother and others who lived through these times, things were hard but they were able to make ends meet. However, when I was in Georgia, especially teaching in Waycross, Georgia, I heard stories of really hard times experienced by the parents and grandparents of my students (95% of my students were children of tenant farmers).


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> precisely. I'm in agreement. Libertarianism may have worked say at least a 100 years ago, but it would prove disastrous now. I don't mean to insinuate FDR wasn't successful, just that I think Obama is rather successful as well.
> 
> Again, the idea that this deep financial hole, like in the 30s could be fixed in less than 4 years as floated by the republicans is sheer lunacy.





Rps said:


> In total agreement.


In agreement with your agreement. This is why I am glad that Pres. Obama has a chance in the second term to finish the job. Sadly, he does not have a supportive Congress as did FDR. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't cherish them at all. They were losers for a good reason.


I think that if I were born and raised here in Canada, I would be very grateful that Pearson WAS elected PM, since some of the greatest social programs that helped (and continues to help) Canadians were implemented in his term in office, and I would have liked to have seen Douglas elected as PM once, as well as Ed Broadbent and Jack Layton.

Of course, having been born in 1948, if I was born in NL, I would be a Newfoundlander, only to become a Canadian at six months of age.

Whatever, I am a proud Canadian by choice.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Pres. Obama was somewhat successful, but not as much as FDR. From what I have studied about the times back then, and from what my mother and others who lived through these times, things were hard but they were able to make ends meet. However, when I was in Georgia, especially teaching in Waycross, Georgia, I heard stories of really hard times experienced by the parents and grandparents of my students (95% of my students were children of tenant farmers).


FDR was very unsuccessful, stretching the depression essentially to 1943. Obama has led the second-most unsuccessful recovery of all time--however, since no recovery has yet occurred, he may be vying for Roosevelt's crown.

And, yes, I am preparing my superior recovery plan shortly.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR was very unsuccessful, stretching the depression essentially to 1943. Obama has led the second-most unsuccessful recovery of all time--however, since no recovery has yet occurred, he may be vying for Roosevelt's crown.


Yes, yes, yes, we have heard this time and time again from you. Luckily, I have Conrad Black on my side (  ) --

"A brilliant and provocative biography of Franklin Roosevelt -written by a leading newspaper publisher and staunch conservative. Franklin Delano Roosevelt stands astride American history like a colossus, having pulled the nation out of the Great Depression and led it to victory in the Second World War. Elected to four terms as president, he transformed an inward-looking country into the greatest superpower the world had ever known. Only Abraham Lincoln did more to save America from destruction. But FDR is such a large figure that historians tend to take him as part of the landscape, focusing on smaller aspects of his achievements or carping about where he ought to have done things differently. Few have tried to assess the totality of FDR's life and career. Conrad Black rises to the challenge. In this magisterial biography, Black makes the case that FDR was the most important person of the twentieth century, transforming his nation and the world through his unparalleled skill as a domestic politician, war leader, strategist, and global visionary -all of which he accomplished despite a physical infirmity that could easily have ended his public life at age thirty-nine. Black also takes on the great critics of FDR, especially those who accuse him of betraying the West at Yalta. Black opens a new chapter in our understanding of this great man, whose example is even more inspiring as a new generation embarks on its own rendezvous with destiny."

Add to his biography the works of Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., William E. Leuchtenburg, Max Lerner, Richard Hofstadter, Jean Edward Smith and James MacGregor Burns to support my views re FDR.

Of course, you have Jim Powell.

Still, take away Conrad Black (the joker) and Jean Smith (the queen of hearts), and I hold four aces to your pair of deuces. I win. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR was very unsuccessful, stretching the depression essentially to 1943. Obama has led the second-most unsuccessful recovery of all time--however, since no recovery has yet occurred, he may be vying for Roosevelt's crown.
> 
> And, yes, I am preparing my superior recovery plan shortly.


Great. People are really hurting as you take the oath of office. You have the same majority in Congress as did FDR, so you are free to do whatever you want ...... or not do, so you are now at bat.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Great. People are really hurting as you take the oath of office. You have the same majority in Congress as did FDR, so you are free to do whatever you want ...... or not do, so you are now at bat.


Yes, I am just making sure I get all of the names of the policies correct. I would have to take it straight from the election, since FDRs errors began immediately during the lame duck session.

You can keep Conrad Black, Dr. G. He's an amusing fellow, and good with the turn of phrase, but not anybody I want on my side, and I have no reason to trust his opinion on FDR. He's permanently seconded to Team G.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, I am just making sure I get all of the names of the policies correct. I would have to take it straight from the election, since FDRs errors began immediately during the lame duck session.
> 
> You can keep Conrad Black, Dr. G. He's an amusing fellow, and good with the turn of phrase, but not anybody I want on my side, and I have no reason to trust his opinion on FDR. He's permanently seconded to Team G.


Well, FDR had no authority until he was sworn in on March 4th, 1933. Sorry, can't blame him for the lame duck Congress.

I am no supporter of Conrad Black, but I have to admit that I have read through parts of his book and it is well written. So, I give credit where credit is due. And, if you can do as well as FDR, I shall praise you as well. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, FDR had no authority until he was sworn in on March 4th, 1933. Sorry, can't blame him for the lame duck Congress.


The president-in-waiting can send out signals prior to taking office. If those signals are mixed, or confusing, they can affect the business climate.



Dr.G. said:


> I am no supporter of Conrad Black, but I have to admit that I have read through parts of his book and it is well written. So, I give credit where credit is due. And, if you can do as well as FDR, I shall praise you as well. Paix, mon ami.


Well, he's on Team G for good now. Maybe a shortstop.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The president-in-waiting can send out signals prior to taking office. If those signals are mixed, or confusing, they can affect the business climate.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he's on Team G for good now. Maybe a shortstop.


Which is exactly why FDR worked behind the scenes so as not to send out these mixed signals. This is why he was ready to go on day one. So, do what you want ................... except pardon a turkey or two (JFK started that tradition just before he was killed).

Cobbler and Gobbler get their White House moment – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, as a favor to me, might you at least keep the CCC? Merci, mon ami.

Some of Roosevelt's most notable actions during the Hundred Days were:

•A national bank holiday: The day after his inauguration, FDR declared a "bank holiday," closing all banks in the country to prevent a collapse of the banking system. With the banks closed, Roosevelt took measures to restore the public's confidence in the financial systems; when the banks reopened a week later, the panic was over.

•Ending the gold standard: To avoid deflation, FDR quickly suspended the gold standard. This meant that U.S. dollars no longer had to be backed up by gold reserves, which also meant that the government could print—and spend—more money to "prime the pump" of the economy.

•Glass-Steagall Act: The Glass-Steagall Act imposed regulations on the banking industry that guided it for over fifty years, until it was repealed in 1999. The law separated commercial from investment banking, forced banks to get out of the business of financial investment, banned the use of bank deposits in speculation. It also created the FDIC. The effect of the law was to give greater stability to the banking system.

•FDIC: The Federal Deposit Insurance Commission backed all bank deposits up to $2500, meaning that most bank customers no longer had to worry that a bank failure would wipe out their life savings. The agency continues to insure American deposits today.

•Federal Securities Act: This act regulated the stock markets and preceded the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission in 1934, which continues to regulate U.S. stock markets to this day.

•Agricultural Adjustment Act: The AAA provided relief to farmers by paying them to reduce production; this also helped to reduce crop surpluses and increase prices for crops.

•Civilian Conservation Corps: To reduce unemployment, put 250,000 young men to work in rural conservation projects, mostly in national parks and forests.

•Tennessee Valley Authority: The TVA provided electrification and other basic improvements the impoverished interior of the South. 

•National Industrial Recovery Act: One of FDR's more controversial measures, it created new agencies and regulations that tightened the relationship between government and business. It was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1935.

•Public Works Administration: Funded the construction of public works projects across the country, including schools, hospitals, airports, dams, and ports, as well as ships for the Navy and airports for the Army Air Corps.

•Federal Emergency Relief Act: Provided direct relief, training and work for unemployed Americans. It was abolished in 1935 and its programs folded into other agencies.


----------



## groovetube

I've got the popcorn buttered.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I've got the popcorn buttered.


 For Pres. Obama's inauguration?


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> I don't cherish them at all. They were losers for a good reason.


Do you feel the same way about Stanfield or Manning?


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> For Pres. Obama's inauguration?


No I'm awaiting what would have been better for the great depression.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Do you feel the same way about Stanfield or Manning?


Yes, I feel no special regard or attachment toward them.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> And, yes, I am preparing my superior recovery plan shortly.


History is not really 20/20 as "history" tends to be written by the successful vested interest. That said, anyone can develop plans after the extended fact to support ones ideology. The fact is that what separates the big boys from the toys is when you actually have to make a decision which must bring results, not speculation. It's easy to be a member of the opposition, you don't have to have results only theories. You can say what you want about FDR, but I agree with Dr. G, he made what many would call un-American decisions for the better of the needy .... in fact a testament of some of his polices are that many are still in place and ( and I know I keep harping on this but even you MacFury would have to agree ) that the repealing of the G-S Act by Clinton was a major contributor to the current economic crisis .... FDR knew that organizations cannot effectively police themselves, especially when their actions are motivated by profit, and now so do you.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> History is not really 20/20 as "history" tends to be written by the successful vested interest. That said, anyone can develop plans after the extended fact to support ones ideology. The fact is that what separates the big boys from the toys is when you actually have to make a decision which must bring results, not speculation. It's easy to be a member of the opposition, you don't have to have results only theories. You can say what you want about FDR, but I agree with Dr. G, he made what many would call un-American decisions for the better of the needy .... in fact a testament of some of his polices are that many are still in place and ( and I know I keep harping on this but even you MacFury would have to agree ) that the repealing of the G-S Act by Clinton was a major contributor to the current economic crisis .... FDR knew that organizations cannot effectively police themselves, especially when their actions are motivated by profit, and now so do you.


FDR made "un-American" decisions to the detriment of the needy. He gave some of them make-work jobs while heaping hardship on the majority of them. He extended the Depression for all of them.

The repeal of the G-S Act of 1933 _may_ have hastened the economic crisis. I'm not sure, since it no longer seemed to have any ability to control what had been happening for years. The biggest factor in self-policing is gone--fear of failure. The government merely bails out failing banks. Organizations require some rules, as do individuals, but huge organizations such as FNMA and counter-productive regulations create an atmosphere in which such ridiculous vehicles as mortgage derivatives are created,


----------



## groovetube

fear of failure? Since when does fear of failure stop anyone's greed? Are you kidding?

You can just make this stuff up and expect anyone will take this seriously.


----------



## Dr.G.

"FDR made "un-American" decisions to the detriment of the needy. He gave some of them make-work jobs while heaping hardship on the majority of them. He extended the Depression for all of them." Yes, the hardship of earning an honest paycheck for an honest days work. I played in a park that was once a garbage dump and was reclaimed by one of these make-work projects. Roads, bridges, dams, buildings ............. on and on and on and on would go the list of all of these government funded projects that put people to work.

You can't rewrite history by just saying these things, Macfury. I respect your right to have your opinions and to express them, but to say that make-work jobs that actually accomplished real things that helped real people, and employed real people to enable them to earn a real paycheck was "heaping hardship" upon them is just not true. You can't change reality.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> ou can't rewrite history by just saying these things, Macfury. I respect your right to have your opinions and to express them, but to say that make-work jobs that actually accomplished real things that helped real people, and employed real people to enable them to earn a real paycheck was "heaping hardship" upon them is just not true. You can't change reality.


They helped one group of people while depriving another. Yes, _real_ people were helped, and other _real_ people were hurt.


----------



## groovetube

still no details, just a bunch of, stories.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They helped one group of people while depriving another. Yes, _real_ people were helped, and other _real_ people were hurt.


How on earth were real people hurt by the helping people to help themselves by earning a living???? If you mean that tax dollars were used to help people in dire need stave off starvation I see your point ................. and totally reject it.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> How on earth were real people hurt by the helping people to help themselves by earning a living???? If you mean that tax dollars were used to help people in dire need stave off starvation I see your point ................. and totally reject it.


Most of FDR's tax revenue was derived from excise tax, which disproportionately affected the poor, by making staples unaffordable. So FDR made their lives harder while making the lives of others easier.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Most of FDR's tax revenue was derived from excise tax, which disproportionately affected the poor, by making staples unaffordable. So FDR made their lives harder while making the lives of others easier.


Yes, that has been Jim Powell's Cato Institute mantra for some years now, all of which has been proven false. As I said, you can't distort reality and make it real. Or, as my grandfather would say, "You can put a shoe in the oven, but it won't come out a bagel." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

I have heard that same nonsense floated so many times before I'm amazed people still believe it.

But then I recall the images of Americans who had no healthcare standing with protest signs about how the rich can't afford to help support a proper healthcare system. Something about more options (yet they didn't have enough money to pay for those options)


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, that has been Jim Powell's Cato Institute mantra for some years now, all of which has been proven false. As I said, you can't distort reality and make it real. Or, as my grandfather would say, "You can put a shoe in the oven, but it won't come out a bagel." Paix, mon ami.


I am not familiar with Powell--but please prove it false. You can take money from the future and put it in the present, or you can take money from others and give it to a target group. From where do you suppose FDR got money to give to the people he chose to give it to?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I am not familiar with Powell--but please prove it false. You can take money from the future and put it in the present, or you can take money from others and give it to a target group. From where do you suppose FDR got money to give to the people he chose to give it to?


They took it the pool of taxes collected from those working and from corporations, along with using borrowed money. I trust you have heard of John Maynard Keynes and Keynesian economics (he was one of many who advocated the use of fiscal and monetary measures to mitigate the adverse effects of the Great Depression).

Still, it is up to you to prove how FDR hurt people with his policies to help the people in need in the US during the Depression.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Great Depression 1929-1940 - YouTube

The people are still waiting, Macfury.


----------



## groovetube

There's a couple threads now where people have waited for responses.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> They took it the pool of taxes collected from those working and from corporations, along with using borrowed money. I trust you have heard of John Maynard Keynes and Keynesian economics (he was one of many who advocated the use of fiscal and monetary measures to mitigate the adverse effects of the Great Depression).


From whom was the money borrowed, Dr. G?


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> There's a couple threads now where people have waited for responses.


Well, people are dying as we wait for the New New Deal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> From whom was the money borrowed, Dr. G?


Print it and worry about it later ................. or do nothing, and employ people to pick up the dead bodies .................... or arm the militia in every state to quell the insurrection of people wanting bread. Your call.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Print it and worry about it later ................. or do nothing, and employ people to pick up the dead bodies .................... or arm the militia in every state to quell the insurrection of people wanting bread. Your call.


I just wanted your agreement that the money was not borrowed. It was printed and devalued.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I just wanted your agreement that the money was not borrowed. It was printed and devalued.


Not sure who you might borrow from since everyone was in the same economic situation. If you can find a lender, by all means borrow it ........... just do something to help the people of the US.


----------



## fjnmusic

groovetube said:


> There's a couple threads now where people have waited for responses.


The waiting is the hardest part
Everyday sees one more yard
You take it on faith
You take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

Oh I think a few here have given up on waiting.


----------



## MacDoc

per usual MF gets it only half correct.....does not understand money supply and fractional banking and tries to condense it down to a Fuax sound bite.
a) actual wealth was already severely devalued from the crash - the deflation overshot getting into a spiral difficult to correct.

b) by putting people to work ie Hoover dam....real wealth was created and the money supply re-inflated - it had already deflated.

The risk is letting the money supply get out of control by predation - over valued properties and stocks as the money supply goes up as loans are created.
So far there has not been a soft landing devised to deflate an overblown money supply.
The banks got let off the hook.
The homeowners didn't.

MF is still living in gold standard world that is simple nonsense until the world population and growth stabilizes. Keynes is correct that governments can stimulate economy - Harper did it - didn't see MF crying about that.
The risk is money being too loose ( soaring money supply ) as in the lead up to the 2008 crash and no oversight on the predators willing to take advantage of that - which they did and left gov and gullible homeowners dealing with the mess.

We still are. Just about every major bank on the planet would be underwater if deflation was allowed to correct the money supply. They should be accountable for failure - they aren't .

Bernacke knew this was occurring










the gov stopped reporting M3 in 2006 
The Return of M3 Money Supply Reporting - Seeking Alpha
and all during the Bush years the "growth" was a phantom as the numbers were about as close to fake as could be.
And the looters had a field day.
The merry go round stopped in 2008.












> Why is this significant? Well, M3 is growing quite rapidly, with the annual rate of change now over 10%. Prior to the announcement of M3's demise, its growth was in the range of 3 - 7%.
> 
> Anytime a government agency stops reporting about their goings on, it should raise a few eyebrows. Now we see what happened once the reporting of M3 was killed -- that measure of money supply spiked much higher -- a rate of change that's even greater than 10%+.
> 
> Funny how we alter our behavior when we think no one is watching what we are doing, isn't it?


Now money supply and growth are supposed to match - in reality Bush and Co were lying through their teeth about the economy and covering it up by not releasing accurate information.

Instead they released M2










which gave the desired false sense of stability. Note the divergence just after 2006



> This is a classic case of "ignore what they are saying, because what they are doing is speaking so loud:" While the Federal Reserve has been reporting rather flat money supply growth in M2 (blue line), in reality they have been dramatically increasing the cash (red and blue line) available for speculation.
> 
> Hence, that sloshing sound you heard. They have been providing the fuel for the rally, the huge M&A activity, the explosion in derivatives -- even the eye popping Art auctions are part of the shift from cash to hard assets. It is just suupply and demand -- print lots of lots of anything, and that thing becomes increasingly devalued. It works the same for cash as it did for Beanie Babies.


For FDR - stoking the M3 via work programs was absolutely correct as all but a few were in private industry were evening maintaining real wealth let alone creating new ( Kellogg maintained wealth and workforce )
For Bush and Co it was looting.

Just a final word to understand this.



> Why is this significant? Well, M3 is growing quite rapidly, with the annual rate of change now over 10%. Prior to the announcement of M3's demise, its growth was in the range of 3 - 7%.


M3 needs to match growth to keep inflation under control.

IN fact post analysis of the Bush years showed an economy in trouble and getting worse, perhaps even negative growth as much. Trying to pump up a deflating balloon for political purposes instead of like Paul Martin biting the bullet and making the hard decisions.


----------



## Rps

I would like to add to your comments MacDoc that we also need to look at two key elements: derivatives and selling short. In a way, the 29' crash was a result of these two items, although we didn't have derivatives at that time, but the money market sure was acting like it. I would certainly entertain legislation which out lawed derivatives and selling short ( how can you sell something you don't own and how can you control a promise for a promise of a promise ). Summarised, we need to find a way to take excessive greed out of the financial system.


----------



## MacDoc

Yup - all these speculative instruments take ridiculous advantage of the fractional lending system devised to match growth with increased money supply.
Instead banks used their already magnified capital ( up to 30:1 ) to further gamble on margin so perhaps up to 100:1 or more on these "bets".

Very very few Credit Unions got caught in this as they have strict rules about speculating with members money ( tho a few towns indulged and the Caisse Populaire got dinged which shows the danger of "too big" ).

The banks are far and away out of control as instruments of public weal. If they had to operate like other businesses without the fiat granted fractional lending they'd be far more cautious and far more accountable as Credit Unions are.
And shelter costs might be reasonable.
It' ain't over.


----------



## Rps

Yes MacDoc, but we have to be careful with banks, as putting too much restriction on their reserve rules may actually cause a contraction of the money supply and this might not be the best time to have this, although I'm not so sure a little inflation might not be a bad thing as well..... however, the ratio that was used for some institutions in the U.S. was well over 100:1, clearly the SEC and the Fed dropped the ball here. What should happen is all of the ABCP should have been "impaired" on each sale or transfer to the next selling agent..... that should be part of the legislation and Obama really missed an opportunity to tighten up very loose laws .... its almost as if the monetary and fiscal policy are competing with each other and really they should be in sync.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc, Rps, you are now just complicating things for Macfury with stats/facts ............. and more stats. The Great Depression is a fact, Pres. Hoover's inaction just made things worse for millions of Americans, Macfury has been elected with a Congress that is willing to do whatever he says he wants to do to save America ................ he has just taken the oath of office and told all Americans that they have "nothing to fear but fear itself ...." Now, all America .............. indeed, all the world, awaits his actions. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, would you say that Obama and FDR held about the same positioning, relatively, in both houses? I know FDR had about 60% of the vote, but I am assuming he held the House and Senate as well ..... which I believe Obama also held in his first term....if so, then this opens the question for comparisons ... although to be fair, I think FDR had the support of his party ..... I'm really not so sure Obama has ( or even had ) true support even though he was elected and also won a second term ..... I still have this nagging doubt that the whole party isn't behind him .......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, would you say that Obama and FDR held about the same positioning, relatively, in both houses? I know FDR had about 60% of the vote, but I am assuming he held the House and Senate as well ..... which I believe Obama also held in his first term....if so, then this opens the question for comparisons ... although to be fair, I think FDR had the support of his party ..... I'm really not so sure Obama has ( or even had ) true support even though he was elected and also won a second term ..... I still have this nagging doubt that the whole party isn't behind him .......


No way!!! FDR and the Democrats held both sides of Congress. They had 70 seats in the Senate of the 96, and 322 of 435 in the House. He was able to focus upon the "3 Rs": Relief, Recovery, and Reform (i.e., Relief for the unemployed and poor; Recovery of the economy to normal levels; and Reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression).

Macfury has blasted FDR for prolonging the Great Depression, so now I put him in the position of doing whatever he wants, with a Congress fully behind him, to being an end to the suffering that is now in its 4th year.

Pres. Obama, theoretically, had the 60% filibuster-proof Senate for a very short while, and 255 House Democrats for two years. 

I did a google.com search of his major legislation. Not bad, in my opinion, but I know that as soon as I post this list, the opposition cries shall be heard throughout ehMacLand. We shall see.

Major legislation

[edit] Enacted

Main article: Acts of the 111th United States Congress
January 29, 2009: Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-2
February 4, 2009: Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act (SCHIP), Pub.L. 111-3
February 17, 2009: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), Pub.L. 111-5
March 11, 2009: Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, Pub.L. 111-8
March 30, 2009: Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-11
April 21, 2009: Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, Pub.L. 111-13
May 20, 2009: Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-21
May 20, 2009: Helping Families Save Their Homes Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-22
May 22, 2009: Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-23
May 22, 2009: Credit CARD Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-24
June 22, 2009: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, as Division A of Pub.L. 111-31
June 24, 2009: Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 including the Car Allowance Rebate System (Cash for Clunkers), Pub.L. 111-32
October 28, 2009: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010, including the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, Pub.L. 111-84
November 6, 2009: Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, Pub.L. 111-92
December 16, 2009: Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2010, Pub.L. 111-117
February 12, 2010: Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act, as Title I of Pub.L. 111-139
March 4, 2010: Travel Promotion Act of 2009, as Section 9 of Pub.L. 111-145
March 18, 2010: Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act, Pub.L. 111-147
March 23, 2010: Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Pub.L. 111-148
March 30, 2010: Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, including the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act, Pub.L. 111-152
May 5, 2010: Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-163
July 1, 2010: Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-195
July 21, 2010: Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, Pub.L. 111-203
July 29, 2010: Tribal Law and Order Act of 2010
August 3, 2010: Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-220
August 10, 2010: SPEECH Act, Pub.L. 111-223
September 27, 2010: Small Business Jobs and Credit Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-240
December 8, 2010: Claims Resolution Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-291
December 13, 2010: Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-296
December 17, 2010: Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-312, H.R. 4853
December 22, 2010: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-321, H.R. 2965
January 2, 2011: James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-347, H.R. 847
January 4, 2011: Shark Conservation Act, Pub.L. 111-348, H.R. 81
January 4, 2011: Food Safety and Modernization Act, Pub.L. 111-353, H.R. 2751


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## Dr.G.

Comes 2016, watch Hillary Clinton run against Jeb Bush ........ with HC taking on a Jewish VP and JB taking on an Hispanic VP running mate. What a race that would be if it ever came to pass. Talk about tearing down the walls of anti-diversity!!! We shall see.


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Comes 2016, watch Hillary Clinton run against Jeb Bush ........ with HC taking on a Jewish VP and JB taking on an Hispanic VP running mate. What a race that would be if it ever came to pass. Talk about tearing down the walls of anti-diversity!!! We shall see.


Not sure about that, Hilary looks like a worn out mop ..... I really think she has had enough. She certainly has paid her dues and can hold her head up high for the work she has done, but I'm thinking she looks to me like someone who has had enough. And I'm not sure that a 4 year break will be enough.


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## bryanc

Rps said:


> Not sure about that, Hilary looks like a worn out mop ..... I really think she has had enough.


You may be right. I could certainly see her packing it in before 2016. However, a re-energized Clinton coming back from a 4 year sabbatical would be a political force to be reckoned with. I'd like to see that; Bill'd make a great First Dude.

However, assuming you're right and she bows out; who's a likely candidate for the Dems in 2016? Do you know anything about who they're grooming?


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## Rps

That is in interesting question .... who about Booker? You want someone untainted so he might fit the bill. I all depends on who the GOP run, do they dip in the past or grab someone new...............maybe a woman.............maybe a female CEO of a data company..............maybe the Grinch......


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## eMacMan

bryanc said:


> You may be right. I could certainly see her packing it in before 2016. However, a re-energized Clinton coming back from a 4 year sabbatical would be a political force to be reckoned with. I'd like to see that; Bill'd make a great First Dude.
> 
> However, assuming you're right and she bows out; who's a likely candidate for the Dems in 2016? Do you know anything about who they're grooming?


And there in lies the problem. The Banksters and Meg Corps select the candidates for us. By the time primaries roll around. 'We the People' have already lost the upcoming election.


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Not sure about that, Hilary looks like a worn out mop ..... I really think she has had enough. She certainly has paid her dues and can hold her head up high for the work she has done, but I'm thinking she looks to me like someone who has had enough. And I'm not sure that a 4 year break will be enough.


True, but I am just throwing it out so that if it should happen, or some combination of these tickets come to pass, you will say "Now, how did he know that back in 2012???"
Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G.

Obama to meet with Romney Thursday – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Watch him offer Romney a cabinet position.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Obama to meet with Romney Thursday – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> Watch him offer Romney a cabinet position.


Would be a brilliant move.

I also approve of Obama's decision to sign the following bill:



> President Barack Obama signed a bill on Tuesday shielding U.S. airlines from paying for each ton of carbon their planes flying into and out of Europe emit, despite a recent move by Europe to suspend its proposed measure for one year.
> 
> The carbon fee bill was the first piece of legislation debated on the House floor after Congress returned from recess on November 13, and had been cleared by the Senate in September in a rare unanimous vote.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Would be a brilliant move.
> 
> I also approve of Obama's decision to sign the following bill:


Well, it would certainly help with getting some Republicans in the House decide that compromise is better than going over the fiscal cliff. We shall see.

I liked Romney until he went far right to get the nomination.


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## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it would certainly help with getting some Republicans in the House decide that compromise is better than going over the fiscal cliff. We shall see.
> 
> I liked Romney until he went far right to get the nomination.


what.... compromise? A democrat?


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I liked Romney until he went far right to get the nomination.


For traditional Democrat voters, this is like saying that the opposing candidate should behave more like a Democrat while you opt not to vote for them. That way, even if your candidate loses, you'll still have someone in the squishy middle as a backup.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> For traditional Democrat voters, this is like saying that the opposing candidate should behave more like a Democrat while you opt not to vote for them. That way, even if your candidate loses, you'll still have someone in the squishy middle as a backup.


Not sure if the Republicans will rename their party as the Squishy Middle Party ....... however, if they rename themselves as the Party of the Middle Squishyites (PMS) they would reclaim the middle.


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## bryanc

.


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## Macfury

FDR began to weaken American tradition long ago. Barack Obama is the nightmarish expansion of FDR's vision,transforming FDR's "safety net" into a king-sized hammock. 

The cartoon is for the weak-minded.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR began to weaken American tradition long ago. Barack Obama is the nightmarish expansion of FDR's vision,transforming FDR's "safety net" into a king-sized hammock.
> 
> The cartoon is for the weak-minded.


Well, we still await the Pres. Macfury New New Deal ............................ Don't delay in that the bread lines are getting longer.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> FDR began to weaken American tradition long ago. Barack Obama is the nightmarish expansion of FDR's vision,transforming FDR's "safety net" into a king-sized hammock.
> 
> The cartoon is for the weak-minded.


So what you're saying is that the government policies of the 1950 and 60s were far to leftist, correct? The point of the cartoon is that current policies are far *far* to the right (economically) of governments of the recent past, and yet our economies are doing worse, rather than better. Taxes have become far less progressive, corporations are far less constrained by regulations, have far greater access to capital and the global market and are making far more profit than ever before, and yet the middle class is beleaguered and standards of living in the West are declining for the first time. 

The further we go to the right, the worse things get for most people, but the better things get for those few at the top of the economic pyramid.


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## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> So what you're saying is that the government policies of the 1950 and 60s were far to leftist, correct? The point of the cartoon is that current policies are far *far* to the right (economically) of governments of the recent past, and yet our economies are doing worse, rather than better. Taxes have become far less progressive, corporations are far less constrained by regulations, have far greater access to capital and the global market and are making far more profit than ever before, and yet the middle class is beleaguered and standards of living in the West are declining for the first time.
> 
> The further we go to the right, the worse things get for most people, but the better things get for those few at the top of the economic pyramid.


Ike a leftist???? Take that back, bryanc. That is like saying that Ronald Reagan voted for FDR in all four of his terms of office, and considered himself “a New Dealer to the core.” That is absurd.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> So what you're saying is that the government policies of the 1950 and 60s were far to leftist, correct?


Yes.


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## Dr.G.

♬♪ America The Beautiful - Patriotic Video - Mormon Tabernacle Choir ♫♭ - YouTube


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## groovetube

unbelievable.


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## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> unbelievable.


Yes, poor Ike .............. a leftist. Of course, Joe McCarthy would agree with Macfury on that point.


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## bryanc

Dr.G. said:


> Of course, Joe McCarthy would agree with Macfury on that point.


I expect ol' Joe and MF would agree on a lot. But I just wanted MF to verify that we understand him correctly; the right wing policies of the past 40 years have failed because they're not right wing _enough_. Got it.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I expect ol' Joe and MF would agree on a lot. But I just wanted MF to verify that we understand him correctly; the right wing policies of the past 40 years have failed because they're not right wing _enough_. Got it.


No. America has failed because it is not free enough.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No. America has failed because it is not free enough.


True, that would be a Libertarian rally call -- "Live free or die". Paix, mon ami.


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## groovetube

Sure, lets take what is quite clearly not working and take it further!

Brilliant strategy!


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No. America has failed because it is not free enough.


Up With People - Freedom Isn't Free - YouTube

Right on, Brother Macfury. "Freedom isn't free ............"

"When Liberty is taken away by force it can be resored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered." Dorothy Thompson

"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the goverment." Franklin Roosevelt

"We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts foreign ideas alien philosophies and competitive values For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people" John Kennedy

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains or slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry

Macfury, despite our differences, I do believe in these quotes.


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## bryanc

Seems many republican voters are having a hard time accepting the results of the election... it must be difficult to cope when reality is so completely unrelated to what you believe.



> 49% of GOP voters nationally say they think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama. We found that 52% of Republicans thought that ACORN stole the 2008 election for Obama, so this is a modest decline, but perhaps smaller than might have been expected given that ACORN doesn't exist anymore.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> No. America has failed because it is not free enough.


Ah yes, imagine the Libertarian utopia of 300 million armed people completely unconstrained by any pesky laws. Just like the good ole days when men were men and women were dragged by their hair into the cave.


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## eMacMan

I suspect if the average US voter was subjected to the same voter registration testing that blacks (at that time referred to as ******* and or ********) faced during the late 50s in the deep south, the entire herd of registered Republicans and most of the registered Democrats would lose their votes all together.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Seems many republican voters are having a hard time accepting the results of the election... it must be difficult to cope when reality is so completely unrelated to what you believe.


This reminds me of the bawling from Democrats when they could not accept the victory of George Bush over Al Gore or John Kerry. It's typical of close elections.

By the way, ACORN still exists under other names, though it's doubtful they have much ability to do anything after scandals forced their closure.


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## bryanc

*What's wrong with the American Economy?*

Business insider just published a nice article on what's wrong with the American Economy. I think this applies to a large degree to Canada and the rest of the world as well, and in a nutshell, they point out that corporate profits are higher than they have ever been in history, while wages are lower than they have been since the great depression. While this is good for short term shareholder value, it means that the middle class (who are now earning such low wages many are loosing their homes and ceasing to be 'middle' class) cannot afford to support the economy, which is why it's collapsing. Historically, corporations generated wealth for employees as well as shareholders, and the employees supported the economy that allowed the corporations to survive and grow.

The new economy is creating a small population of super-wealthy elites, and turning everyone else into peasants. Because super elites make up such a small proportion of society, even their vast wealth does not make a significant contribution to economic activity. And because the rest of society is struggling financially (usually with large debts owed to the banks, which in turn, are owned by the super-wealthy), the economy stagnates.

The solution, BI argues is for corporations to engage in some enlightened self interest; invest in employees - with higher wages, more training, more benefits, etc. - and accept the short term reduction in shareholder value in exchange for a growing economy that will sustain the long term survival of the capitalist economy.


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## groovetube

The real question is, are corporations capable if doing this across the board in order to affect change, or do we need government to step in.

There's no question that the less we need government to step in the better. But I don't see 'freedom' working out so well in this regard.


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## bryanc

In the same vein, I strongly encourage everyone to spend a few minutes listening to Richard Wilkinson's TED talk, on the impact of social inequality on society. (My favourite line: "If Americans want to live the 'American Dream' they should move to Denmark.").


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Business insider just published a nice article on what's wrong with the American Economy. I think this applies to a large degree to Canada and the rest of the world as well, and in a nutshell, they point out that corporate profits are higher than they have ever been in history, while wages are lower than they have been since the great depression. While this is good for short term shareholder value, it means that the middle class (who are now earning such low wages many are loosing their homes and ceasing to be 'middle' class) cannot afford to support the economy, which is why it's collapsing. Historically, corporations generated wealth for employees as well as shareholders, and the employees supported the economy that allowed the corporations to survive and grow.
> 
> The new economy is creating a small population of super-wealthy elites, and turning everyone else into peasants. Because super elites make up such a small proportion of society, even their vast wealth does not make a significant contribution to economic activity. And because the rest of society is struggling financially (usually with large debts owed to the banks, which in turn, are owned by the super-wealthy), the economy stagnates.
> 
> The solution, BI argues is for corporations to engage in some enlightened self interest; invest in employees - with higher wages, more training, more benefits, etc. - and accept the short term reduction in shareholder value in exchange for a growing economy that will sustain the long term survival of the capitalist economy.


This is far too simplistic an analysis. When the likes of Henry Ford paid good wages for manufacturing jobs, he did so largely because he needed those employees and because he wanted to retain their skills and loyalty--and hopefully, as a result, they would use their wage to buy one of his cars. At that time, his efficiency allowed him to both pay higher wages and produce his product more cheaply than competitors.

Increasing wages at random when workers are in low demand makes no sense at all. 

In most cases, efficiency has driven the increase in profits per dollar, particularly in the U.S. To some degree, profits are also relatively high at this point because companies are unwiling to invest in the Obamaconomy due to both announced regulations and future regulatory uncertainty. With few exceptions, they are making money with existing assets and infrastructure and spending nothing on expansion. That drives higher profits (per dollar) over the short term, but not the long term.

In most cases, the decline of the U.S. middle class is the result of high taxation, over-regulation and sharply increased competition from other markets who are no longer reeling from the devastation of WWII.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> In the same vein, I strongly encourage everyone to spend a few minutes listening to Richard Wilkinson's TED talk, on the impact of social inequality on society. (My favourite line: "If Americans want to live the 'American Dream' they should move to Denmark.").


Wilkinson is a fool. The American Dream was never about equality of outcome or about having things given to you. I can't believe such thinking passes for genius these days.


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## groovetube

I haven't read such short sighted nonsense in a long time.

Anyone with half a clue can see the analysis posted by Bryanc is bang on. The freedom warriors simply want to continue the gluttony at the top and want everyone to believe the collapse of the middle class is Obama's fault.

Unfortunately for these snake oil salesmen, that collapse occurred well before Obama had any say in anything. That's the fact they cannot change.


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## groovetube

And, at what point do these freedom warriors stop insulting people with this crap about having things 'given to you'.

Paying a proper wage to people results in people working for what they have, not given. That's what Americans want.

This nonsense that somehow a roof over your head, proper food, health and education are 'entitlements' seems to be pushed by the far right. If the freedom warriors continue to have their way, they will continue to create more and more people in dire need, rather than people who can sustain themselves.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Wilkinson is a fool. The American Dream was never about equality of outcome or about having things given to you.


1) World famous professor of sociology says XYZ about sociology.
2) Guy on internet says famous professor is a fool; ABC is not true.
3) I go looking for a new irony meter... again.

Here's a hint: Wilkinson never said anything about the American Dream being about income equality or having things given to you. He was pointing out the empirically demonstrable (and ironic) fact that social mobility is greater in Scandinavian socialist democracies like Denmark than it is in the US.

Next, you'll be telling us you know more about climatology than all the people with Ph.D.s in that feild... oh, wait...


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> 1) World famous professor of sociology says XYZ about sociology.
> 2) Guy on internet says famous professor is a fool; ABC is not true.
> 3) I go looking for a new irony meter... again.
> 
> Here's a hint: Wilkinson never said anything about the American Dream being about income equality or having things given to you. He was pointing out the empirically demonstrable (and ironic) fact that social mobility is greater in Scandinavian socialist democracies like Denmark than it is in the US.
> 
> Next, you'll be telling us you know more about climatology than all the people with Ph.D.s in that feild... oh, wait...


Wilkinson is a fool. I still find it funny to see people such as yourself trying to build credibility for someone because they happen to be a "professor."


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## groovetube

Generally you know they're dancin when they pull out the crap about people being given things.

That's pretty much all they have. Romney tried that talking point and only the true nuts bought it.


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## bryanc

Name calling does seem to be the refuge of the right-wingnut when confronted with facts and logic.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Name calling does seem to be the refuge of the right-wingnut when confronted with facts and logic.


Wilkinson is a fool because he misunderstands the "American Dream." His "facts and logic" bear up the wrong premise.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Wilkinson is a fool because he misunderstands the "American Dream."





Wikipedia said:


> In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1]


What Wilkinson illustrated with data in his talk is that the people of the Scandinavian social democracies are dramatically more socially mobile than Americans; the income of one's father is a far more reliable predictor of the income of an American than it is a predictor of the income of a Finn or a Swede or a Dane. His quip that "if an American wants to pursue the American Dream, he should move to Denmark" is both witty and entirely accurate. Who's the fool?


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> What Wilkinson illustrated with data in his talk is that the people of the Scandinavian social democracies are dramatically more socially mobile than Americans; the income of one's father is a far more reliable predictor of the income of an American than it is a predictor of the income of a Finn or a Swede or a Dane. His quip that "if an American wants to pursue the American Dream, he should move to Denmark" is both witty and entirely accurate. Who's the fool?



Wilkinson is the fool.


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## bryanc

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. The fact that it is in complete contradiction with reality just makes you a poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.


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## groovetube

Another exchange the ends as predicted.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. The fact that it is in complete contradiction with reality just makes you a poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.


Again, Wilkinson does not understand the American Dream. He should instead concentrate on studying Scandinavian countries.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Wilkinson does not understand the American Dream.


Explain. The phrase "American Dream" clearly relates to social mobility (i.e. the ability to improve ones circumstances in life regardless of the circumstances of your birth). Wilkinson has shown (as have many others) using empirical evidence that people in Scandinavian countries (and Japan), are far more socially mobile than Americans. What's hard to understand here?

It seems far more likely that it is you who does not understand the American Dream.


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## groovetube

I think the response reminds of what jet fighters do when a homing missile is on their tail.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Explain. The phrase "American Dream" clearly relates to social mobility (i.e. the ability to improve ones circumstances in life regardless of the circumstances of your birth).


No, it is the ability to pursue one's dreams without being prevented from doing so by an established social order or the machinations of an overbearing government. It has nothing to do with outcomes.

You're mistaking the American dream for a Booth Tarkington novel.


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## groovetube

Macfury said:


> No, it is the ability *for corporations* to pursue *it*'s dreams without being prevented from doing so by an established social order or the machinations of an overbearing government. It has nothing to do with outcomes.
> 
> You're mistaking the American dream for a Booth Tarkington novel.


fixed that for you.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> No, it is the ability to pursue one's dreams without being prevented from doing so by an established social order *or the machinations of an overbearing government.*


(my bold)

The first part is what I said above, and what Wilkinson demonstrated is far more true for the Scandinavian countries than it is for the United states. The last part is something that has been added by the right wing bubble and has nothing to do with what said by Adams when he coined the phrase in 1931. I know it's viewed as perfectly okay to just make stuff up in the conservative bubble universe, but we're trying to deal with reality here, okay?



> You're mistaking the American dream for a Booth Tarkington novel.


No, I'm 'mistaking' it for what was actually said by the guy who coined the phrase. Who the hell is Booth Tarkington and what does he have to do with anything?


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## Macfury

You haven't really studied the American Dream then. The use of the phrase predates Adams, and the concept predates that.


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## bryanc

Macfury said:


> You haven't really studied the American Dream then. The use of the phrase predates Adams, and the concept predates that.


That's quite true, it's just that Adams was the first historian to try to define it. Regardless, the idea of the American Dream has consistently been about social mobility; a rejection of the European class system. What Wilkinson and many other sociologists have shown is that the U.S. is now more strictly segregated into socioeconomic classes than the most European countries, so, ironically, if one wants to pursue the 'American Dream' of bettering one's circumstances despite not being born wealthy, one is better off doing so in the socialist democracies of Europe. This is what I've said over and over. Is it clear now?


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## groovetube

bryanc said:


> That's quite true, it's just that Adams was the first historian to try to define it. Regardless, the idea of the American Dream has consistently been about social mobility; a rejection of the European class system. What Wilkinson and many other sociologists have shown is that the U.S. is now more strictly segregated into socioeconomic classes than the most European countries, so, ironically, if one wants to pursue the 'American Dream' of bettering one's circumstances despite not being born wealthy, one is better off doing so in the socialist democracies of Europe. This is what I've said over and over. Is it clear now?


I think you've identified one of the greatest ironies of the new definition of the american dream now. During the last election we watched as the republicans tried to pull out the whole american dream stuff, but their policies were actually completely the opposite!

The far right would have you believe that after depriving the average citizen of this 'dream', or as Obama put it a fair shot, they have a sense of entitlement when they can't afford to feed, cloth, house, or medically care for their families. Those ingrates.

It seems the libertarians have a real conundrum on their hands now, and rather than face it they furiously wave their hands and spew talking points in hopes people will believe it'll go away.


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## Macfury

bryanc said:


> That's quite true, it's just that Adams was the first historian to try to define it. Regardless, the idea of the American Dream has consistently been about social mobility; a rejection of the European class system. What Wilkinson and many other sociologists have shown is that the U.S. is now more strictly segregated into socioeconomic classes than the most European countries, so, ironically, if one wants to pursue the 'American Dream' of bettering one's circumstances despite not being born wealthy, one is better off doing so in the socialist democracies of Europe. This is what I've said over and over. Is it clear now?


It's clear that you misunderstand. The rejection is not of socieo-economic differences, but a caste system. The American Dream does not reject success on account of wealth owned by one's parents. 

The relatively narrow quintiles in countries such as Denmark, and the relatively low per capita income of Denmark as compared to the U.S. also make comparisons of the sort you wish to make awkward.


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## groovetube

does anyone 'reject success' because your parents have money?

Just where does this horse manure come from? Man just keep on shovellin'!!


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## Rps

Groove, Gramsci strikes again!


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## groovetube

damn him!


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## Rps

While I realise this may not be entirely appropriate in this thread, past history ( namely Iraq ) may show some relevance. Does anyone here think we are being "played" by this Syria and chemical weapons story being told in the media this past few days...... I can't help thinking I've heard this story before.

Also, one has to wonder if unionism in the U.S. is on the way out under the guise of "right to work" laws..... very curious how these two things are playing out north of the river.


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## Macfury

Rps said:


> Also, one has to wonder if unionism in the U.S. is on the way out under the guise of "right to work" laws..... very curious how these two things are playing out north of the river.


Why is "right to work" a guise? It's simply a right, no different from the right to organize.


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## Dr.G.

Taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes of $250,000 or more deducted an average of nearly $91,000 in 2010, according to a CNNMoney analysis of Internal Revenue Service data. If Congress limits deductions to $50,000, folks in this income bracket would be hit harder than others. This is totally unfair to the wealthy. Luckily, the talks between Pres. Obama and Boehner have resulted in a compromise -- massive tax increases for the wealthiest two people in the US (Buffett and someone named Jason Jinglestars, who cashed in on Bre-X before the crash), with entitlement deductions to 98% of Americans received these funds (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc). This avoids the "fiscal cliff" crisis.

So, Buffett got his wish .......... he now pays the greatest amount of taxes when compared to the lowest wage earner in the US, one Harvey Crunchmeyer of Mount Orion, Ohio, who earned all of $1.13 last year.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hillary Clinton's First 2016 Campaign Ad? (Nov. 30, 2012 - CSPAN) - YouTube

Told you so .....................


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So, Buffett got his wish .......... he now pays the greatest amount of taxes when compared to the lowest wage earner in the US, one Harvey Crunchmeyer of Mount Orion, Ohio, who earned all of $1.13 last year.


The rich mostly pay tax off the top on corporate earnings or other investment vehicles. They don't pay tax on it a second time when it becomes income. That's why the income tax figures for some wealthy people look lower than other brackets.


----------



## eMacMan

The Republirats are ready to concede 2016 to Billary should she get the nomination. Appears she is closer to an ideal GOP candidate than any card carrying member.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The rich mostly pay tax off the top on corporate earnings or other investment vehicles. They don't pay tax on it a second time when it becomes income. That's why the income tax figures for some wealthy people look lower than other brackets.


Which is why capping their deductions is so unfair. I say, take the floor away from those on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, do away with food stamps, and see how far these people fall before the social safety net kicks in. Go for the lowest common denominator for those in need ............ and then set the rates from that point, with a COLA of inflation minus 1%. If that does not help to balance the budget I don't know what will ................. other than to do away with Big Bird. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> The Republirats are ready to concede 2016 to Billary should she get the nomination. Appears she is closer to an ideal GOP candidate than any card carrying member.


No way!!! A ticket of Rubio and Rand Paul would sweep into office, especially if Hillary Clinton takes Nancy Pelosi as her running mate ................ or not. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> The Republirats are ready to concede 2016 to Billary should she get the nomination. Appears she is closer to an ideal GOP candidate than any card carrying member.


On the contrary, we have four years to go. Hilary will have too much baggage ( her husband included, even though he has considerable cache ). Look for someone "hipper" and a Governor to take the lead here. Hilary is done as she campaigned too early last time and she was swept away by the AOBH group......


----------



## groovetube

what baggage? I disagree with that.


----------



## MacDoc

the right wingdings at their finest.....texas version
From NYT article behind a paywall



> When [Texas] state lawmakers passed a two-year budget in 2011 that moved $73 million from family planning services to other programs, the goal was largely political: halt the flow of taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood clinics.
> 
> Yes, ideology and buzzword driven policy. "Planned Parenthood is evil and we must do everything we can to stop Satan's abortion factories!!" But what happens when ideology doesn't match reality? With conservatives, they tend to just deny reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latest Health and Human Services Commission projections being circulated among Texas lawmakers indicate that during the 2014-15 biennium, poor women will deliver an estimated 23,760 more babies than they would have, as a result of their reduced access to state-subsidized birth control. The additional cost to taxpayers is expected to be as much as $273 million — $103 million to $108 million to the state’s general revenue budget alone — and the bulk of it is the cost of caring for those infants under Medicaid.
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, really? Who could have guessed that cutting funding to clinics that provide family planning services to mostly poor women would result in increased births and overall costs? Oh wait...there was no need to guess...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The health agency’s numbers, while alarming to some state lawmakers, are not unexpected. Last legislative session, while lawmakers debated the cuts, the nonpartisan Legislative Budget Board estimated that they would lead 284,000 women to lose family planning services, resulting in 20,000 additional unplanned births at a cost to taxpayers of $231 million. The cuts passed anyway, a price that socially conservative legislators were willing to pay in their referendum on Planned Parenthood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So they were told what would happen, cut family planning funding anyways, and are now acting all surprised at the outcome? Idiots, pure and simple. And they still haven't learned a damned thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any such agreement would almost certainly exclude Planned Parenthood from future financing. Though the Planned Parenthood clinics that used to provide state-subsidized care never performed abortions, Republican lawmakers are enforcing rules in the state’s family planning programs that ban providers “affiliated” with clinics that perform abortions. (By this logic, because some Planned Parenthood clinics provide abortions, none of them can receive state money.)
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> ideology-driven, reality-denying, theocratic morons. That's your Republican party folks.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> On the contrary, we have four years to go. Hilary will have too much baggage ( her husband included, even though he has considerable cache ). Look for someone "hipper" and a Governor to take the lead here. Hilary is done as she campaigned too early last time and she was swept away by the AOBH group......





groovetube said:


> what baggage? I disagree with that.


I agree. Bill will be an asset for her, as he was for Pres. Obama.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The rich mostly pay tax off the top on corporate earnings or other investment vehicles. They don't pay tax on it a second time when it becomes income. That's why the income tax figures for some wealthy people look lower than other brackets.


Course given the corporations they own are also paying virtually no tax, that means they also don't pay tax a first time, second time or at all.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> the right wingdings at their finest.....texas version
> From NYT article behind a paywall


They should neither cover family planning nor support everyone simply because they whelped.


----------



## groovetube

sure, don't cover family planning and let tons and tons of these kids running around costing us tons of money in the end. The righteous right will have you think otherwise.

Brilliant stuff! I love how the right thinks.

The best is when the righteous right screams about covering birth control, but then gets all indignant at the number of abortion!

It just doesn't get any more ridiculous than that.


----------



## MacGuiver

groovetube said:


> It just doesn't get any more ridiculous than that.


Yes more birth control. That'll end abortion.
Stats show that 54 percent of women through the doors of an abortion clinic each year bought that sales pitch too, reporting having used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. 
So over a half million abortions per year as a direct result of people thinking sex was "safe".


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> Yes more birth control. That'll end abortion.
> Stats show that 54 percent of women through the doors of an abortion clinic each year bought that sales pitch too, reporting having used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.
> So over a half million abortions per year as a direct result of people thinking sex was "safe".


You didn't just insinuate that all abortions are a result of failed contraception.

Lets just pretend that incredibly big piece of nonsense wasn't floated. 

And people wonder why it's tough to take religious people's opinions on this seriously.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> Yes more birth control. That'll end abortion.
> Stats show that 54 percent of women through the doors of an abortion clinic each year bought that sales pitch too, reporting having used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.
> So over a half million abortions per year as a direct result of people thinking sex was "safe".


Hey, abortion is the sacrament of liberalism... you can't offend people's religions on this site!


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> Hey, abortion is the sacrament of liberalism... you can't offend people's religions on this site!


Yeah I crossed the line. Apologies for offending the religious sensitivities of my liberal brethren.


----------



## MacGuiver

groovetube said:


> You didn't just insinuate that all abortions are a result of failed contraception.
> 
> Lets just pretend that incredibly big piece of nonsense wasn't floated.
> 
> And people wonder why it's tough to take religious people's opinions on this seriously.


No I didn't if you actually read what I wrote. Only 54% of abortions were failures of contraception.


----------



## MacDoc

hehe


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> No I didn't if you actually read what I wrote. Only 54% of abortions were failures of contraception.


Oh I read what you wrote. More insane religious crap thrown against the wall. Your insistence that contraception causes abortion is absolutely insane.

Access To Free Birth Control Causes Abortion Rate To Drop Dramatically: Study

It's time to end the insanity of lies. If you were truly, really interested in lowering the number of abortions, you'd stop spreading nonsense like this.

More access to contraception, and education. The religious right's 'just say no' crap is a complete and proven total failure not to mention, disaster costing society untold amounts of money.Just for starters.

It's high time religious beliefs and influence were prevented from affecting policy, this isn't about 'liberal vs conservative' as you and your faux libertarian friend tries to make it out to be, it's about sane policies that work.


----------



## MacGuiver

I haven't lied Groove. You're obviously poorly catechized on the liberal sacraments. The 54% figure comes from the abortion friendly Guttmacher Institute. Well over half of the more than one million abortions annually in the US were performed on people thinking they were in the "safety net" of birth control. Thats a lot of collateral damage.
Also notice the small "l" in the use of the term liberal. I'm not talking about Liberal Party vs Conservative party but the liberal sexual ethos which can be found in people of all political stripes. 

Your claim that more birth control=less abortion is contestable. 



> The medical journal Contraception has published the results of a new study that appears to refute the pro-abortion mantra that contraception use lowers abortion totals.
> 
> The study, following women in Spain of childbearing age since 1997, had researchers surveying women every two years about their contraceptive use and whether they became pregnant or had an abortion.
> 
> The study found overall use of contraceptive methods increased from 49.1% to 79.9% during the 10 year time period ending in 2007. Condom usage rates rose from 21 to 38.8 percent while women were more likely to use the birth control pill (14.2% to 20.3%).
> 
> Despite the increase reliance on birth control and contraception, the elective abortion rate increased from 5.52 to 11.49 per 1000 women.


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> I haven't lied Groove. You're obviously poorly catechized on the liberal sacraments. The 54% figure comes from the abortion friendly Guttmacher Institute. Well over half of the more than one million abortions annually in the US were performed on people thinking they were in the "safety net" of birth control. Thats a lot of collateral damage.
> Also notice the small "l" in the use of the term liberal. I'm not talking about Liberal Party vs Conservative party but the liberal sexual ethos which can be found in people of all political stripes.
> 
> Your claim that more birth control=less abortion is contestable.


ooohhh, found a little study in Spain, where religious rhetoric is ramping up against the allowing of abortions there did you? Googling it shows an overwhelming number of prolife websites quoting this cherry picked from Spain study. 

Unfortunately for you, and your pro life cohorts, the facts suggest otherwise, and studies show that more access to contraceptives leads to _fewer_ abortions. NOT more.

Lies indeed. The religious right will stoop to new lows to spread FUD.

More access to contraceptives, and education on their use, is what helps reduce abortions. This idea that contraceptives leads to more abortions is sheer lunacy.

Sorry.


----------



## MacDoc

> *Lie of the Year: the Romney campaign's ad on Jeeps made in China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... eps-China/
> 
> It was a lie told in the critical state of Ohio in the final days of a close campaign -- that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China. It originated with a conservative blogger, who twisted an accurate news story into a falsehood. Then it picked up steam when the Drudge Report ran with it. Even though Jeep's parent company gave a quick and clear denial, Mitt Romney repeated it and his campaign turned it into a TV ad.
> 
> And they stood by the claim, even as the media and the public expressed collective outrage against something so obviously false.
> 
> People often say that politicians don’t pay a price for deception, but this time was different: A flood of negative press coverage rained down on the Romney campaign, and he failed to turn the tide in Ohio, the most important state in the presidential election.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/dec/12/lie-year-2012-Romney-Jeeps-China/

he got his comeuppance ....maybe the long string of nonsense from Harper will come to roost.
Of course the idjits in opposition have to get their act together for a coalition which is not looking promising.


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/dec/12/lie-year-2012-Romney-Jeeps-China/


Do some research instead of relying on blogs. 



> But Chrysler was thinking of reviving the Jeep brand in key foreign markets, and like other American automakers, Chrysler preferred to build cars in the countries where it intended to sell them -- a common strategy to reduce tariffs and transport costs.


China makes no jeeps now so where are they getting them? The move represents moving production from the U.S. to China.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Do some research instead of relying on blogs.
> 
> 
> 
> China makes no jeeps now so where are they getting them? The move represents moving production from the U.S. to China.


Not exactly, but it is true that Chrysler is intending to produce Jeeps locally ( meaning in China ) but, they have also increased investment and production in Jeep's home state. So, while they MAY start production in China, it is not the same as stating that production will be MOVED to China. All manufacturers have global plants, GM has held plants in China for years ( also India and a host of other non-UK or German countries ). But the intent of the ad was to win Ohio voters and thus was skewed to induce fear ... even though it was rebuffed by Chrysler. SO I guess you both could say you are both "right" and in agreement.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not exactly, but it is true that Chrysler is intending to produce Jeeps locally ( meaning in China ) but, they have also increased investment and production in Jeep's home state. So, while they MAY start production in China, it is not the same as stating that production will be MOVED to China. All manufacturers have global plants, GM has held plants in China for years ( also India and a host of other non-UK or German countries ). But the intent of the ad was to win Ohio voters and thus was skewed to induce fear ... even though it was rebuffed by Chrysler. SO I guess you both could say you are both "right" and in agreement.


rps, I would tend to agree that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You would need to define "production" before you could really get to the heart of it.

However, I recall Romney stating: "I read that..." before he mentioned the story. The article appeared that way in a newspaper on the day he mentioned it.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> rps, I would tend to agree that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You would need to define "production" before you could really get to the heart of it.
> 
> However, I recall Romney stating: "I read that..." before he mentioned the story. The article appeared that way in a newspaper on the day he mentioned it.


Romney is a politician, his lips were moving, one could safely conclude he was lying. Especially as there was no irrefutable evidence that he was, however unintentionally, telling the truth.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Do some research instead of relying on blogs.


Could you repost this in the GHG thread?


----------



## MacDoc

hehe :clap:


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> hehe :clap:


He's making fun of you MacDoc!


----------



## CubaMark

*Neil Macdonald: The dismantling of the Tea Party*

_I miss the Tea Party already.

I miss the pot-bellied guys in tricorne hats waving around muskets (or, sometimes, assault rifles), demanding dramatic cuts in government spending, except for spending that benefited them, which, given their age and physical condition, was most government spending._

(SNIP)

_...the real Tea Party miscalculation was pushing Americans to embrace something they may want in principle, but not in reality — small government.

This is a nation that loves its entitlements: its government subsidies, its Medicare, its social security, its mortgage interest deductions._

(SNIP)

_Former representative Dick Armey has just left Freedom Works, one of the biggest Tea Party organizations in America, reportedly with a very un-Tea Partyish severance of $8 million._
​
(Full article at CBC)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Neil Macdonald: The dismantling of the Tea Party*
> 
> _I miss the Tea Party already.
> 
> I miss the pot-bellied guys in tricorne hats waving around muskets (or, sometimes, assault rifles), demanding dramatic cuts in government spending, except for spending that benefited them, which, given their age and physical condition, was most government spending._
> 
> (SNIP)
> 
> _...the real Tea Party miscalculation was pushing Americans to embrace something they may want in principle, but not in reality — small government.
> 
> This is a nation that loves its entitlements: its government subsidies, its Medicare, its social security, its mortgage interest deductions._
> 
> (SNIP)
> 
> _Former representative Dick Armey has just left Freedom Works, one of the biggest Tea Party organizations in America, reportedly with a very un-Tea Partyish severance of $8 million._
> ​
> (Full article at CBC)


Was just reading this article on the CBC website, CM. Very interesting.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Neil Macdonald: The dismantling of the Tea Party*)


The man is a fool. The TEA Party remains fully engaged and active.


----------



## CubaMark

I would imagine Neil might say _"back atcha!"_


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The man is a fool. The TEA Party remains fully engaged and active.


Neil Macdonald is one of the smartest and most honest on the CBC News family. 

Even the leaders of some of the Tea Party factions are bailing, claiming that the movement has lost its focus and momentum.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I would imagine Neil might say _"back atcha!"_


Very true. :clap:


----------



## margarok

In 2010, I enjoyed going to the rallies (That is me holding up the poster mid-photo, red shirt, Eagle carrying US flag to Statue of Liberty -- quite clever poster art for a farm girl from flyover country! FYI: "Obama Bows and Atlas Shrugs" was my clever little slogan. I think it went over most of my Oklahoma Tea Party crowds' heads.

Anyway... since I remain friends with the group of people who I got to know during those upliftingful and patriotical rallies, I can affirm that there is limited attempts to gather in groups such as this. Mostly, folks have bought farmland and are building compounds now.

Just saying... oh, and when I visit family in the Ozarks, it is standard to see people in all establishments, stores, electric company, banks, etc. carrying guns on their hip or slung over their shoulder. It is comforting... each of them is protecting everyone around them. I can't wait to move back there.


----------



## CubaMark

I still don't get the tea party "outrage" over the fact that Obama made a very minor diplomatic faux pas with the bow... Is it because Americans have some kind of innate feeling that its the rest of the world that should be bowing (or perhaps more to the point, bending over)?


----------



## margarok

:clap: Yes. That's it. Exactly.

Although I don't think I've ever seen Her Majesty the Queen curtsy to other world leaders. And I am positive I've never see the Chinese dude kiss anyone's ring. I am guessing that folks here in the US think their elected leader ought not to go around bowing to multiple world leaders. But that is just my guess.


----------



## kps

It's not surprising that the Tea Party movement may be in decline. Any time a grass roots movement is taken over by a political party (the republicans, in this case, but it could have been the democrats) the trend will eventually be down hill from there.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I still don't get the tea party "outrage" over the fact that Obama made a very minor diplomatic faux pas with the bow... Is it because Americans have some kind of innate feeling that its the rest of the world that should be bowing (or perhaps more to the point, bending over)?


Because the U.S.is a founded on egalitarian principles, it is tradition that no president will bow in deference to foreign leader--who happens to be just another man or woman. Obama's deference in bowing to foreign leaders is offensive on these grounds.


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> It's not surprising that the Tea Party movement may be in decline. Any time a grass roots movement is taken over by a political party (the republicans, in this case, but it could have been the democrats) the trend will eventually be down hill from there.


The Republicans did not take over the TEA Party--the Republican establishment was offended by it.


----------



## kps

Macfury said:


> The Republicans did not take over the TEA Party--the Republican establishment was offended by it.


Maybe in the beginning, but they sure saw an opportunity later on.


----------



## margarok

KPS... I have to say I agree that they did co-opt the movement to some degree. Our little group was ultra reluctant to support any Republicans here (as if that matters in this very Red state), even to the point of refusing to endorse the present Governor of OK. However, once elected, they all claimed to support the tea party ideals and them promptly joined the status quo. Thus... the dwindling interest in having meetings and increased interest in moving to the hills. LOL


----------



## Rps

Margarok, nice to hear from you! As I read this thread it is occurring to me that many here have an entrenched Canadianised definitional view of the two major parties in the U.S. Ideological romanticism aside, do you sense a difference between how Canada and the U.S. see what is a Democrat and what is a Republican. As an aside, I don't think I would ever support how our media here as defined the Tea Party during your last election...however, it did appear to me that the Tea Party started out as fiscally conservative, but as in most cases, when a political group moves towards a "party" status it usually changes its scope to follow along with the critical mass of new followers in an attempt to provide a populace resonating voice.


----------



## margarok

Rps said:


> Margarok, nice to hear from you! As I read this thread it is occurring to me that many here have an entrenched Canadianised definitional view of the two major parties in the U.S. Ideological romanticism aside, do you sense a difference between how Canada and the U.S. see what is a Democrat and what is a Republican. As an aside, I don't think I would ever support how our media here as defined the Tea Party during your last election...however, it did appear to me that the Tea Party started out as fiscally conservative, but as in most cases, when a political group moves towards a "party" status it usually changes its scope to follow along with the critical mass of new followers in an attempt to provide a populace resonating voice.


Methinks you are right... As I said in an earlier post, I am a registered Republican ONLY because to participate in the process in any meaningful way (primaries, conventions, nominating, platform, etc.), we have to register either D or R. My husband, who refuses to register as either, gets his voter ID card and can only vote on election day. Having participated pretty much all I care to, I may join him as an "I". As for being categorized... when I was in college, I was tasked with giving a presentation on how people derive meaning from words. I came to the conclusion that a lot of what defines a term depends upon what it is NOT. 

I am, I believe, something that really doesn't NOT exist in modern political theater. I am a progressive conservative. I believe in basic rights of property and individual liberty, but believe the social compact requires limitations on the expression of that liberty. But the limitations cannot be onesided... if I grant you the right to tax my property for the public good, then I must benefit from that good as well. 

It is good to chat at you rps.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> But the limitations cannot be onesided... if I grant you the right to tax my property for the public good, then I must benefit from that good as well.



In many cases, you will find that your obligations are specific in how they limit your freedom or have a cash price, Your benefits, however, will be airy and diffuse and hard to pin down.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> In many cases, you will find that your obligations are specific in how they limit your freedom or have a cash price, Your benefits, however, will be airy and diffuse and hard to pin down.


You are right, but I think those benefits could at least be something I agree exist. For instance, even if I had no children, I would agree that paying taxes to educate all society's children benefits me. I do not believe, however, that paying taxes to subsize someone's sex change operation has any benefit for me at all... nor does paying taxes for someone's contraceptives, be they "pre" or "post" conception.

But I am not in favor of stopping anyone from paying for their own. And, strangely, the issues that seem to define the Rs and the Ds in this country always appear to boil down to the issue of abortion. Which should NOT be a political issue at all, in my opinion.


----------



## Rps

Actually margarok, I call myself a liberal, but I think I am more of a progressive conservative. We had a PC party here but its leader was so detested that it was virtually wiped out and later merged to become the conservatives.....but most people still think PC here as the Conservative party ( although I know some readers will challenge that statement. )

I have been studying the works of Paulo Freire and he firmly believes that the terms we use impact our perceptions and solutions. I have enclosed an annotation I wrote on one of his works ( if you are not familiar ) which touches on your comments:


Freire, P. (1985). The Politics of Education. Culture, Power, and Liberation. New York: Bergin and Garvey.

This collection of essays contains many of Freire’s reoccurring themes with respect to education: that it should be liberating, convey humanism, and that one needs to be watchful of the signs of the contradictions that are ever present in society due to the dominant class’ influence on the oppressed. 

More specifically, Freire cautions us as to how our view of educational topics, in this case literacy, can cause our good intentions to be domesticating instead of liberating. As an example, Freire points out that by viewing illiteracy as a scurge upon the land, a disease, or as a form of malnourishment there can arise a mechanistic view of illiteracy such that the illiterate is percieved as the hollow man, or the starving man, and using Banking Education models, the individual is simply filled with words and thus literate. 

But to Freire, literacy, as in all things educational, is a political process and one that requires the educatee and the educator to respect each others position; and to ensure that there is cultural relevance in the delivery of the programme or the process will not be liberating. Freire acknowledges in the work that there is a fair amount of repetition among the many chapters, but each reinforces his thought and builds upon the prior. For my purposes, as an ESL instructor, it is important that I understand that my participants are not hollow vessels awaiting to be filled; they are individuals embarking on an educational journey and it is important that we learn together if what we are learning is to take root and grow within the participants of the process. 

Freire’s work is not without its reoccurring criticisms which, when seen as flaws, may somewhat dilute the impact of his thoughts upon the reader. First, Freire only see things in black and white, there is never a middle ground. I find this interesting as one of the hallmarks of Freires’ work is the promoting of dialogue as an educative practice; somehow this strikes me as a contradiction. Secondly, Freire writes his history and espouses his views of his Latin American experience as absolute truths, will little to no reference to support his historical context. Outside of the occassional mention of Marx, Guevara and other “revolutinnaries”, there is little third party collaboration to support his environmental views during that period...everything is stated as a fact; a curious trait since he is someone who so often documents the hegemony and solipsism of the dominant class.


----------



## margarok

rps: It is thought provoking and makes me want to re-read my research documents from years ago. At one time, I grew intrigued with the evidence that several different views of the same lecture/comments/writings could emerge from mulitple intelligent minds in a classroom. That supports the view that there is a certain level of programming through life experience and socialization that serves to filter meaning to individuals. At one time, as a intellectual past-time, I was trying to develop what I called my "Economic Theory of Media" to show how I believed that "news" is framed in ways that will extract the greatest profit for clients. (Clients being media outlets and/or political leaders; media consumers are rarely clients.) It drew the interest of several professors who liked my use of factorial analysis (I suspect my having a strong background in Calculus gave me the ability to really impress my math-illiterate journalism professors and so they like the graph I displayed using "made up" survey results -- when it is an intellectual past-time, you can assume survey answers.)

Anyway, I opted out of it as a real thesis subject because I could not decide what variables controlled the media outlets and political leaders influence. I could give those a value, but couldn't determine the influence that determined which would cause a change in news "value". 

It was never really fully developed, but I did have some nice charts, graphs and a good list of "premises" to build upon, but never could quite decide how to handle that unmeasurable variable... what changes public opinion most: Media or Politics.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> But I am not in favor of stopping anyone from paying for their own. And, strangely, the issues that seem to define the Rs and the Ds in this country always appear to boil down to the issue of abortion. Which should NOT be a political issue at all, in my opinion.


I always find this a rather odd battle on the federal level, since only funding is the issue here. That being said, her is my suggestion--let people place a checkmark on their tax forms that, if they choose, either commits their portion of tax money to supporting abortion OR to supporting unwed mothers and orphans. It will no longer make this a matter of conscience.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> I always find this a rather odd battle on the federal level, since only funding is the issue here. That being said, her is my suggestion--let people place a checkmark on their tax forms that, if they choose, either commits their portion of tax money to supporting abortion OR to supporting unwed mothers and orphans. It will no longer make this a matter of conscience.


It sounds as if it could solve the problem, but....

Abortion (choice) supporters do not want folks to have this choice at all, I think. They know that that little speck of conscience that exists in most of us would push our pens to support the women who really have made the hard decision and the children that have been abandoned because of that decision.


----------



## Rps

margarok said:


> It was never really fully developed, but I did have some nice charts, graphs and a good list of "premises" to build upon, but never could quite decide how to handle that unmeasurable variable... what changes public opinion most: Media or Politics.


Hi margarok, not sure how long ago your studies were but, there is more room for qualitative research today than prior years. I think your thesis is right on and can be seen in the news media ( probably all media ). It sounds like you have one doctorate in the making.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> Abortion (choice) supporters do not want folks to have this choice at all, I think. They know that that little speck of conscience that exists in most of us would push our pens to support the women who really have made the hard decision and the children that have been abandoned because of that decision.


If half the country or more is pro-abortion (choice) then it should be a worthwhile gamble for them to settle the issue once and for all,


----------



## margarok

Articles: Conservatives Rationalize as America Circles the Drain

A real mess on our hands here. And we are having a dust storm eerily bringing to mind Depression Era Oklahoma!


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> Articles: Conservatives Rationalize as America Circles the Drain
> 
> A real mess on our hands here. And we are having a dust storm eerily bringing to mind Depression Era Oklahoma!


Yes, I just watched some of the storms around the panhandle of Texas. Bonne chance, mon amie.


----------



## Dr.G.

Eight-year old Make-A-Wish child Janiya Penny reacts after meeting President Barack Obama as he welcomes her family to the Oval Office. Seeing the picture of Lincoln, I am sure he must be smiling at this picture of four African American citizens in the Oval Office ............. one of whom is president.


----------



## screature

*Iowa court: It’s legal for boss to fire woman he finds attractive*

Iowa court: It’s legal for boss to fire woman he finds attractive

Only in the good ole' US of A...


----------



## margarok

screature said:


> Iowa court: It’s legal for boss to fire woman he finds attractive
> 
> Only in the good ole' US of A...


 There are so many examples of a complete loss of reason in our court system it is pathetic. My husband's office (he works as a contractor for the U.S. Air Force) was searched for inappropriate photos or posters that might be offensive. To whom? 

Well, just "offensive" the squadron commander sheepishly admitted, saying he wasn't sure exactly but he had to come look by orders from the Pentagon.


----------



## margarok

I just returned from Missouri, passing through a wonderful snowstorm in the Ozarks. I realize many of you from the "north" see beautiful snowstorms on a regular basis, but since I've been living here in Oklahoma for several decades, I rarely see snow that accumulates in any real way.

The snowplows and service is good, so the delay in our travel was minimal. 

What I am bringing to the thread for discussion is this:

My father (aged 90 and clear as a bell in his mind) has decided to file a deed he had my grandfather sign for him in 1978 (During the Carter administration). The deed "gifts" the family farm equally to each of my siblings and I. (Dad said he saw the writing on the wall and rather than file the deed in his own name, he decided to see if he couldn't avoid excessive inheritance tax rates for his kids.)

After a bit of research, we determined that filing this deed and paying the gift tax rate from 1978 is the most economically feasible way to keep the farm intact. Otherwise, if we wait for my parents to pass it to us as an inheritance, the changes in tax law next year would probably require selling the farm my grandfather bought and cleared in 1921 just to pay the inheritance taxes.

It is a sad state of affairs we are in... the clerk at the county courthouse said there is a rush of people trying to change the ownership of their family farms for the same reason. However, since our deed was signed and witnessed legally 30+ years ago, she said it passes the hurdle for transferring possession to the four of Dad's kids.

Now, we wait for the tax bill and any penalities... the beauty of it is that the tax rate will be on the 1978 value, which is less than a tenth the value now.


Just thought you might be interested in what property owners in the flyover country USA are doing to prepare for the fiscal cliff.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> Just thought you might be interested in what property owners in the flyover country USA are doing to prepare for the fiscal cliff.


I thought this tax was proposed by Obama aside from the so-called fiscal cliff.


----------



## margarok

You are probably right about the increases being separate from the fiscal cliff issue. I know that the property tax issues are complicated, especially for farmland in the fertile Mississippi River valley where our family farm is located. 

I really just told my siblings to do what they determine to be best and I will not make waves. (I am actually the only one living out of state right now, so they will need to take care of the paperwork before the end of year).

I think there are a number of tax rates that change the rate of inheritance taxes that are associated with the fiscal cliff and I think that is the biggest thing we are trying to avoid. The current value of the land might bump us into a tax bracket that would make keeping it in the family hard to do...


----------



## Rps

I grew up in a small farming community. Most had to work outside the farm to just pay the bills, and while there are indeed some very rich farmers they are not the norm. I'm not so sure how large the agro-business is here, but in the U.S. it is huge....and some might think the cause of many of the eco-ills that certain areas have suffered. But I do know one thing, and think one thing.... I know that if we tax our farms out of existence and we have to rely on importing our foods we as a nation are in trouble. 

I also think that many of our tax laws are wrong. I think estate taxes are wrong, I think the rate that farms are taxed are wrong, and I think that capital gains taxes are especially wrong. With capital gains, you should not penalize those who see themselves as "owners" ,,,,, thus the longer you hold the investment the less you should be paying capital gains.....if any at all. But if you are a "flipper" you have no ownership interest at all and should be taxed accordingly. Just my two cents worth.


----------



## Sonal

George Saunders: I Was Ayn Rand's Lover : The New Yorker

Really, this could go on any political thread these days, but this one seems most appropriate. Enjoy the read.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> George Saunders: I Was Ayn Rand's Lover : The New Yorker
> 
> Really, this could go on any political thread these days, but this one seems most appropriate. Enjoy the read.


It was funny, but politically flaccid.


----------



## Rps

Thank you for posting this Sonal. What a well written article ..... I've almost forgotten about The New Yorker...... wondering if it still prints in paper? I guess, with Newsweek going many of the great mags are on the downside.


----------



## arminia

Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Virginia) assailed the fiscal-cliff legislation today, calling it “a classic example of putting 98.5 per cent of the American people ahead of the rest of the country.”

Read more: Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker


----------



## groovetube

arminia said:


> Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker


what's scary, is that that isn't that hard to believe.


----------



## Dr.G.

arminia said:


> Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker
> House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Virginia) assailed the fiscal-cliff legislation today, calling it “a classic example of putting 98.5 per cent of the American people ahead of the rest of the country.”
> 
> Read more: Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker


"Mr. Boehner said that he tried to offer the wealthy consolation by reminding them that because of an increase in payroll taxes, millions of middle-class and working-class Americans would be suffering more than they would: “That usually put them in a better mood.” "

Read more: Republicans Apologize to Top 1.5 Per Cent : The New Yorker


----------



## Dr.G.

Meanwhile, within the Republican Party ...............

GOP civil war over Sandy disaster relief - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, at least one person is confident that he shall not be out of a job comes Friday. We shall see.


Washington (CNN) – House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he was confident the House would re-elect him speaker, but conceded a few fellow Republicans would likely vote against him.

Some conservative activists have called on the House to oust Boehner following the passage of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. The deal raised tax rates for American households earning more than $450,000 per year. While Boehner made a list-minute effort to include spending cuts in the deal, the measure passed without them.

Rep. Eric Cantor, the House Majority Leader, also expressed confidence Thursday that Boehner would be re-elected speaker, saying "absolutely" when asked whether his colleagues would support Boehner for another term in the top post.

Cantor voted "no" on the final fiscal cliff deal Tuesday night, breaking with Boehner, who cast a "yea" vote. A majority of House Republicans voted against the bill, though earlier Tuesday it passed with a large majority in the Senate.

When CNN asked Cantor if the speaker will be re-elected he replied "absolutely."


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> what's scary, is that that isn't that hard to believe.


I think it is parody that speaks way too much truth.


----------



## margarok

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least one person is confident that he shall not be out of a job comes Friday. We shall see.
> 
> 
> Washington (CNN) – House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he was confident the House would re-elect him speaker, but conceded a few fellow Republicans would likely vote against him.
> 
> Some conservative activists have called on the House to oust Boehner following the passage of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. The deal raised tax rates for American households earning more than $450,000 per year. While Boehner made a list-minute effort to include spending cuts in the deal, the measure passed without them.
> 
> Rep. Eric Cantor, the House Majority Leader, also expressed confidence Thursday that Boehner would be re-elected speaker, saying "absolutely" when asked whether his colleagues would support Boehner for another term in the top post.
> 
> Cantor voted "no" on the final fiscal cliff deal Tuesday night, breaking with Boehner, who cast a "yea" vote. A majority of House Republicans voted against the bill, though earlier Tuesday it passed with a large majority in the Senate.
> 
> When CNN asked Cantor if the speaker will be re-elected he replied "absolutely."


When I was a teen, there was a big barge of trash floating off the coast of New York, as the discarders of the trash were looking for a place to let them dump the undesirable cargo. It was a news item for a long time and I remember my father saying that was exactly what we should do will all the members of the U.S. Congress... put them on a barge and float them around New York Harbor for all to see. He said it wouldn't necessarily make the next bunch any more competent or honest, but it would give them something to think about if they had to look at their predecessors sitting on that barge.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> When I was a teen, there was a big barge of trash floating off the coast of New York, as the discarders of the trash were looking for a place to let them dump the undesirable cargo. It was a news item for a long time and I remember my father saying that was exactly what we should do will all the members of the U.S. Congress... put them on a barge and float them around New York Harbor for all to see. He said it wouldn't necessarily make the next bunch any more competent or honest, but it would give them something to think about if they had to look at their predecessors sitting on that barge.


 Sadly, margarok, I have heard this said about those in Congress as well, along with other politicians, lawyers, and other professions. Sad. 

Peace, my friend.


----------



## groovetube

Well he kept his job, which, I think makes a real mockery of someone here's insistence that compensation matches their intelligence.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well he kept his job, which, I think makes a real mockery of someone here's insistence that compensation matches their intelligence.


Some GOP lawmakers didn't answer, or simply voted "present," when called to vote. In total 12 Republicans declined to vote for Boehner - a tiny percentage, but still the largest number opposing the re-election of a House speaker in recent history.

Keep in mind that after the VP, the Speaker of the House is next in line for the presidency should something happen to Pres. Obama and VP Biden.


----------



## iMouse

Dr.G. said:


> Some GOP lawmakers didn't answer, or simply voted "present,"


*One* did, freshman Rep. Steve Stockman — who served one prior term, from 1995 to 1997 — voted “present.”


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> *One* did, freshman Rep. Steve Stockman — who served one prior term, from 1995 to 1997 — voted “present.”


I wish they'd tossed that weakling Boehner out on his keester.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I wish they'd tossed that weakling Boehner out on his keester.


I knew it!!!!!!!!! I knew you were a closet liberal and Mouselander. The #2 person behind Speaker Boehner was House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi. That is who would have become the new speaker if there were enough conservative votes against Boehner's reelection. And all these years you have been passing yourself off as a libertarian and against Pres. Obama. Great deflection, mon ami. "Welcome back to the fight ............... this time I know our side will win." Paix, mon ami.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0]Welcome Back To The Fight - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I knew it!!!!!!!!! I knew you were a closet liberal and Mouselander. The #2 person behind Speaker Boehner was House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi. That is who would have become the new speaker if there were enough conservative votes against Boehner's reelection. And all these years you have been passing yourself off as a libertarian and against Pres. Obama. Great deflection, mon ami. "Welcome back to the fight ............... this time I know our side will win." Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Welcome Back To The Fight - YouTube


wow. This calls for a round. On me!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> wow. This calls for a round. On me!


Now, let's not gloat. gt, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this our brother, Macfury, who was lost, and is found. He is the prodigal son returning to the fold.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> wow. This calls for a round. On me!


You guys crack me up! I certainly can't stand Nancy, but would have loved to see the spineless Boehner get kicked outta there.


https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/423736_10151404024584739_216102870_n.jpg


----------



## groovetube

There's a few spineless democrats (and repubs) I'd love to see booted.

In fact boot most of them. Start over. Perhaps it's time to see working class individuals in government.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> There's a few spineless democrats (and repubs) I'd love to see booted.
> 
> In fact boot most of them. Start over. Perhaps it's time to see working class individuals in government.


Amen, Brother GrooveTube! that's good preachin' as we say at the holy roller haven.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> Amen, Brother GrooveTube! that's good preachin' as we say at the holy roller haven.


margarok, wait until you hear gt's "hell fire and brimstone, call to justice" diatribes against those who preach hatred, intolerance, violence and bigotry. They are postings to respect and stand in awe. As the old saying goes, "Praise gt and pass the coffee." Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Dr.G.

margarok said:


> You guys crack me up! I certainly can't stand Nancy, but would have loved to see the spineless Boehner get kicked outta there.
> 
> 
> https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/423736_10151404024584739_216102870_n.jpg


Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Tears of joy.:-(


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
> 
> Tears of joy.:-(


Boehner lets loose with the floodgate of tears so often, I'm afraid it's pretty cheap coin.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Boehner lets loose with the floodgate of tears so often, I'm afraid it's pretty cheap coin.


I agree. At times, I wonder if it is for mere effect?  At least our leaders Pres. O, VP B and NP are made of sterner stuff.


----------



## Rps

You all know that I'm a supporter of "term limits" for our political leaders, I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea to extend that to all elected members of Parliament .... Dr. G, is the President the only term limit elected position in the U.S. Federal Government? I really think all elected position should have limits and put the administration of government in the hands of a qualified and accountable civil service....then at least we could fire the "buggers' if they didn't meet their goals and our expectations.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You all know that I'm a supporter of "term limits" for our political leaders, I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea to extend that to all elected members of Parliament .... Dr. G, is the President the only term limit elected position in the U.S. Federal Government? I really think all elected position should have limits and put the administration of government in the hands of a qualified and accountable civil service....then at least we could fire the "buggers' if they didn't meet their goals and our expectations.


That has been suggested before, Rp, but it would require a Constitutional amendment to enact this sort of limit.

Reformers during the early 1990s used the initiative and referendum process to put congressional term limits on the ballot in 24 states. Voters in eight of these states approved the congressional term limits by an average electoral margin of two to one. It was an open question whether states had the constitutional authority to enact these limits. In May 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5–4 in U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U.S. 779 (1995), that states cannot impose term limits upon their federal Representatives or Senators.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> That has been suggested before, Rp, but it would require a Constitutional amendment to enact this sort of limit.


Would that really be a constitutional item? I guess that change would never fly since the one's voting are the one's we are trying to limit.........


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I agree. At times, I wonder if it is for mere effect?  At least our leaders Pres. O, VP B and NP are made of sterner stuff.


Uh-huh...


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Would that really be a constitutional item? I guess that change would never fly since the one's voting are the one's we are trying to limit.........



President -- Limited to being elected to a total of two 4-year terms (except that a president who has already completed more than 2 years of an unfinished term may be elected in his own right only once); becoming President by succession may happen to someone an unlimited number of times (for example, if he is Vice President and the President dies or resigns).

Vice President -- Unlimited 4-year terms

Senate -- Unlimited 6-year terms

House of Representatives -- Unlimited 2-year terms

Supreme Court -- No term limits, appointed to serve "during good Behaviour" (but can be impeached and removed from office for "high Crimes and Misdemeanors") ; in practice a Justice serves until death or stepping down (by retirement or resignation).


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Uh-huh...


A totally different context, Macfury. He was speaking about the murder of 26 innocent people.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Uh-huh...


Keep in mind that Pres. Obama is on your team and you are on his team now. So, we need to stand together against the forces of extremism and radical conservatism. Paix, mon ami.

"Tears in the defense of liberty is not a vice. And determination in the pursuit of justice is a virtue."


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A totally different context, Macfury. He was speaking about the murder of 26 innocent people.


Nope. This a photo of the 2008 election.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nope. This a photo of the 2008 election.


Again, totally understandable. The Speaker's tears seemed somewhat uncalled for in my opinion. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

First Paycheck Of The Year: Schadenfreude Is A Poor Substitute For Cash



> So welcome to your tax increase, Obama voters. Elections have consequences.


Check out the Tweets <snort>

Oops...


----------



## FeXL

And, the Goreacle has sold his network, Current TV, to Al-Jazeera.

Interestingly enough, Glenn Beck/TheBlaze made an offer to purchase but were declined, the statement being made at the time: 



> 'the legacy of who the network goes to is important to us and we are sensitive to networks not aligned with our point of view,'


I guess Al-Jazeera ties in more closely, then?

Nice...


----------



## groovetube

It's adorable to watch as the right wing start snorting about taxes, and the spending/debt problem, especially after 8 years of unprecedented spending and debt hoofing. Not to mention the massive disaster that ended up costing them even more to crawl out of.

Snort all they like, but it was their heroes that created the mess in the first place. Now someone has to pay for it. Just like we're going to have to here soon enough after the Harperites finish spending themselves into a stupor. Here's a prediction, it ain't gonna be the top earners and corporations that will take any kind of hit, it'll be the average Canadian who'll be told both that they have to wait until the government stops spending itself crazy and balance the books before they get their tax breaks (oops that already happened) and then they'll be told that we can no longer afford the services like healthcare, food safety etc etc because well you know there were gazeboes and action plan ads to pay for!!!

Snort indeed.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Tea Party and the Libertarian Party in the US will go nuts if this ever happened.

"Can a $1 trillion coin end debt ceiling crisis?

What if the threat of a voluntary default by the United States could be erased by simply turning one tiny scrap of platinum into a coin?

That's right. No debt ceiling problem. No bickering in Congress. No market jitters. The only thing needed is for the Treasury Department to mint a platinum coin with a face value of $1 trillion."

Can a $1 trillion coin end debt ceiling crisis? - Economy


----------



## i-rui

FeXL said:


> And, the Goreacle has sold his network, Current TV, to Al-Jazeera.
> 
> Interestingly enough, Glenn Beck/TheBlaze made an offer to purchase but were declined, the statement being made at the time:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Al-Jazeera ties in more closely, then?
> 
> Nice...


Al-Jazeera is an award wining news station. It'd be a shame if anyone judged them negatively just because of an Arab name....


----------



## iMouse

i-rui said:


> Al-Jazeera is an award wining news station. It'd be a shame if anyone judged them negatively just because of an Arab name....


Suspicion is a terrible thing, considering that they have people on the ground where few dare tread.

Up until they get go-opted, they are an excellent source for balance reporting.


----------



## groovetube

The right winger's eyes are just bulging with rage over that one. They prefer the spoon fed pap from the likes of CNN, Faux, and the bloggers that basically fill in their blanks.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Al-Jazeera is an award wining news station. It'd be a shame if anyone judged them negatively just because of an Arab name....


Who is judging them negatively? They're to the right of CNN.


----------



## groovetube

I guess someone has missed the outrage.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Who is judging them negatively? They're to the right of CNN.


Bingo...


----------



## groovetube

as far right as Glenn the lunatic beck?


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Who is judging them negatively? They're to the right of CNN.


no they're not. have you ever watched the station?


----------



## groovetube

More furious hand waving saying its so!


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> no they're not. have you ever watched the station?


Yes.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Who is judging them negatively? They're to the right of CNN.


For sure they are. They're a lot better at actual journalism than CNN as well.


----------



## groovetube

Rex Murphy has joined the fray as well. But what does one expect from that cartoon character.

Some people live in caves or something I guess.


----------



## FeXL

On that Fiscal Cliff & Debt Ceiling...


----------



## groovetube

Yeah, I suppose waging massively expensive wars for oil then slashing revenue was a great idea too.

Went from surpluses to massive debt hikes. Now Americans are being told they can't afford health care or retirement.

Stupidity never ceases there does it.


----------



## i-rui

what a profound misunderstanding of the debt ceiling.


----------



## groovetube

Well it certainly keeps the sheeple amused, and placated.


----------



## bryanc

Gawd I'm getting sick of these moronic comparisons of home finances and national finances. When I can start printing my own household money and exchanging it for other currencies and borrow from the cat to feed the dog, these comparisons will become relevant. Of course, I do agree that it would be foolish (not to mention immoral) to train my dog to attack my neighbours, and then use that to justify borrowing more from my cat to feed the big dog that keeps the neighbours afraid of us... but that's as close as the analogy get's between households and countries.


----------



## Dr.G.

"The people's good is the highest law." Cicero


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Gawd I'm getting sick of these moronic comparisons of home finances and national finances. When I can start printing my own household money and exchanging it for other currencies and borrow from the cat to feed the dog, these comparisons will become relevant. Of course, I do agree that it would be foolish (not to mention immoral) to train my dog to attack my neighbours, and then use that to justify borrowing more from my cat to feed the big dog that keeps the neighbours afraid of us... but that's as close as the analogy get's between households and countries.


This is why it's an excellent comparison. The country should be run more like a household, despite its ability to print money.

Left-leaning types often despise these analogies. If countries were run more like households, public expenditures may cease to favour their own cause.


----------



## groovetube

epic!


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> This is why it's an excellent comparison.
> 
> The country should be run more like a household, despite its ability to print money.


The Government's ability to print money was severely limited under the Gold Standard.

Wonder whatever happened to that?

Right, the Government abolished it, in favour of the pulp & paper industry.


----------



## bryanc

iMouse said:


> Wonder whatever happened to that?


My understanding is that it provided far too little control over the economy; hence the essentially universal adoption of a fiat currency system.

Understanding that money has no intrinsic value is central to my argument that we are in no way obligated to serve the economy; in fact it is exactly the inverse. If the economy is not serving our interests well (especially with respect to positioning us strategically to be well prepared for predictable challenges such as ecological or other environmental changes), we should not be hesitant to modify it as we see fit. The economy should serve us and our interests, not the other way around.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> My understanding is that it provided far too little control over the economy; hence the essentially universal adoption of a fiat currency system.
> 
> Understanding that money has no intrinsic value is central to my argument that we are in no way obligated to serve the economy; in fact it is exactly the inverse. If the economy is not serving our interests well (especially with respect to positioning us strategically to be well prepared for predictable challenges such as ecological or other environmental changes), we should not be hesitant to modify it as we see fit. The economy should serve us and our interests, not the other way around.


Currency _can_ have a value. Governments chose to devalue their currencies in exchange for a fiat system.

However, you cannot change the economy, which operates under its own laws, formed by the aggregate of human wants, needs and expended effort. You can only change policy and hope that you haven't screwed things up so badly that you now have less than you started with.

I suspect your line of thinking is similar to the Leninist train of thought. It's just a shame that the Russian economy failed to heed the orders of the politburo and serve humankind as it was told to.


----------



## FeXL

What I find most entertaining about these pissed off progressives is that the analogy exercise is utterly lost on them. These household analogies do not pretend to try to solve the deficit and eliminate the debt, nor to simulate the complexities of a country's finances, but to offer perspective on just how futile the miniscule budget cuts actually are against the big picture, the spending.

Apparently even the most basal of explanations simply fly over their heads. It's no damn wonder they can't run a country, except into the ground...


----------



## groovetube

If you think anyone isn't aware of how futile government efforts to reign in spending is then I've got some land to sell ya...

Srsly? You'd have to be living under a rock not to know this, and I don't think anyone really needs some misguided simpleton analogy to prove a point.

We watched as the Bush administration turned the american taxpayer as their personal slush fund to hand big tax breaks to the rich and spend themselves into a stupor with the wars they dragged everyone in, and sat back while their buddies raped and pillaged the economy into the worst disaster in US history.

And anyone seriously thinks they needs a home shopping list to illuminate this????

just wow.


----------



## MacDoc

What find most entertaining is these right wingers who think they can solve all the financial problems and have not a clue and the record speaks for itself.
How's Alberta doing these days.....against say Norway.?? $3 billion deficit while sitting on one of the largest oil reserves.....hilariously bad management.
Harper - what was the tot up - 165 billion after the recession he says wasn't coming.

Biggest spenders in the US - those good old boys Reagan and Bush.....smallest government in many decades....Obama.

Of course Obama was in a tough place after the Bush mess and got blindsided by the financial thieves around him....good article here



> *Secret and Lies of the Bailout*
> The federal rescue of Wall Street didn’t fix the economy – it created a permanent bailout state based on a Ponzi-like confidence scheme. And the worst may be yet to come
> 
> 
> Read more: Secret and Lies of the Bailout | Politics News | Rolling Stone
> Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook












Secret and Lies of the Bailout | Politics News | Rolling Stone

There IS no short term fix. Obama at least knows this and has done okay nursing along the US jobs in the face of a slowly deflating balloon from the housing bubble that has to be squeezed.

Right wing are about as savvy on the economic side as they are on the science side.......why not all.

Canada is not as bad off as the US on the rightwingding scale but at times the differences seem marginal.

Ontario at least is playing tough where it needs to but with Harper in power - there is little to be done as he dispenses Dutch disease with abandon.

Oh well - I'll be down under soon - they are doing a decent job and have a better democratic structure.


----------



## SINC

MacDoc said:


> How's Alberta doing these days...


Just a minute, let me check.

Oh yeah, I don't have to. We're a 'have' province, just like Newfoundland and Labrador.

How are your geniuses in government in Ontario doing?

Oh, wait. You may not want to go there.


----------



## groovetube

Funny how that occurred for the first time after Harper took the reigns. Interestingly enough, many here Ontario, think the same thing. Which is one good reason why I think, Hudak was not helped much in the last provincial election, they needed a whipping boy.

However, I hear Ontario just recently surprised many with job creation, better than the other provinces.

As for Alberta, it would take far, far more than colossal blundering than even the conservatives could possibly muster with all those oil patches. But that big deficit?

yeah. Not surprised... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Biggest spenders in the US - those good old boys Reagan and Bush.....smallest government in many decades....Obama.


MacDoc, this is some kind of a mushroom hallucination, right? The numbers don't bear this out at all--but go ahead and show us. We're waiting.


----------



## groovetube

Oh tell us the bedtime story on how the Spending by Bush is actually all Obama's fault to make him the bigger spender.

Oh, and all the mess that cost all that money wasn't, Bush's fault.

Speaking, of mushrooms, ease up there dude.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Rex Murphy has joined the fray as well.


Murphy makes an excellent point about the sheer hypocrisy of Gore to sell his network to an organization whose sole funding source is the fossil fuel. This from the same guy who writes off anyone's opinion if they've ever given a speech at a Heartland conference.

Al Gore, friend of the petro-state | Full Comment | National Post



> To whom did the Lord of the Upper Atmosphere sell? Why to al Jazeera — which is to say, effectively to the ruler of Qatar, a wealthy country that has nothing else to sustain it but the sale of its huge petroleum resources.
> 
> Qatar is about oil, oil and more oil. It is a global warmer’s hell.
> 
> Surely there is some pill too tough to swallow in the idea of the world’s greatest alarmist on the subject of global warming, the evils of petroleum economies and the menace of fossil fuels accepting half-a-billion dollars from a state that utterly epitomizes the practices and product he most evangelistically despises.
> 
> But consistency or moral fortitude in the face of profit does not seem to be part of Al’s personal Powerpoint.
> 
> One other, not-to-be-missed note: Mr. Gore was very quick to make sure the sale took place before the New Year — the better to spare him, who is now one of the world’s superrich, his friend Barack Obama’s tax hike on those dreadful one-percenters.
> 
> That move alone was worthy of a Republican.


----------



## groovetube

Should he have sold to Glenn beck? 

As I mentioned, is the CBC an 'oil funded media outlet' since it gets funding solely from a government with tons of oil too?


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Should he have sold to Glenn beck?


It would have been significantly less hypocritical of him, but I do think Al jazeera will do a better job with it. I've got no issue with Al Jazeera, it's Gore's hypocrisy I find amusing.



> is the CBC an 'oil funded media outlet' since it gets funding solely from a government with tons of oil too?


Canadian government has a lot of sources of funding. Gore writes off anyone who has ANY ties to fossil fuel, no matter how distant, yet feels no compunction about selling to an entity that exists specifically and solely because of it. Huge difference.


----------



## MacDoc

Murphy is a joke....Canada's version of rr talk radio. What an odious biased prick pretending to be neutral interviewer.
Of course he's the wings darling against the evil left wing commie press. Such a weird world you live in.


----------



## SINC

MacDoc said:


> Murphy is a joke....Canada's version of rr talk radio. What an odious biased prick pretending to be neutral interviewer.
> Of course he's the wings darling against the evil left wing commie press. Such a weird world you live in.


Ah, this poster used 'dink' in an earlier post, language steadily being downgraded, now to 'prick'. But I guess if phuck is now OK, anything goes. EhMax would be proud.


----------



## heavyall

MacDoc said:


> Murphy is a joke....Canada's version of rr talk radio. What an odious biased prick pretending to be neutral interviewer.
> Of course he's the wings darling against the evil left wing commie press. Such a weird world you live in.


That you don't like him is a ringing endorsement FOR him. Your definition of bias seems to be anyone who is interested in facts over rhetoric.


----------



## groovetube

I'm certainly no fan of Gore, far from it.

I'm even less of a fan of Murphy though. I wouldn't consider Murphy as someone interested in facts as he is in playing to an audience.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> I'm certainly no fan of Gore, far from it.
> 
> I'm even less of a fan of Murphy though. I wouldn't consider Murphy as someone interested in facts as he is in playing to an audience.


He IS playing to an audience, but his schtick is, "look how well informed I am". "These are the cold facts" is the very core of that. Absolutely, there is a lot of editorializing around that, but I can't recall an instance where he didn't have his facts straight.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> That you don't like him is a ringing endorsement FOR him. Your definition of bias seems to be anyone who is interested in facts over rhetoric.


Be honest... you've met MacDoc before!


----------



## i-rui

heavyall said:


> Gore writes off anyone who has ANY ties to fossil fuel, no matter how distant, yet feels no compunction about selling to an entity that exists specifically and solely because of it. Huge difference.


Gore wouldn't "write off" anyone who has ties to fossil fuels that is actually honest about the damage they do to the environment. That's what makes this entire story so laughable, Al Jazeera has covered climate change in an honest & unbiased way. Their reports actually acknowledge the scientific facts, and they don't skirt away from the stating that Qatar is the biggest GHG emitter per capita in the world. You know - how journalism is supposed to work.

There is nothing hypocritical about selling a *NEWS* station to someone who actually broadcasts *REAL NEWS*. it's not hypocritical, it's responsible. I'd hope the prime criteria for the sale of a NEWS station would be based on journalism, and not what country the buyer is based out of.



heavyall said:


> That you don't like him is a ringing endorsement FOR him. Your definition of bias seems to be anyone who is interested in facts over rhetoric.


Rex Murphy is the epitome of rhetoric over facts. It's his entire schtick.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> Gore wouldn't "write off" anyone who has ties to fossil fuels that is actually honest about the damage they do to the environment. That's what makes this entire story so laughable, Al Jazeera has covered climate change in an honest & unbiased way. Their reports actually acknowledge the scientific facts, and they don't skirt away from the stating that Qatar is the biggest GHG emitter per capita in the world. You know - how journalism is supposed to work.
> 
> There is nothing hypocritical about selling a *NEWS* station to someone who actually broadcasts *REAL NEWS*. it's not hypocritical, it's responsible. I'd hope the prime criteria for the sale of a NEWS station would be based on journalism, and not what country the buyer is based out of.
> 
> 
> 
> Rex Murphy is the epitome of rhetoric over facts. It's his entire schtick.


+1.

As I said, he plays to his audience, the ones predisposed to accept whatever he says as 'cold hard facts'.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Gore wouldn't "write off" anyone who has ties to fossil fuels that is actually honest about the damage they do to the environment. That's what makes this entire story so laughable, Al Jazeera has covered climate change in an honest & unbiased way. Their reports actually acknowledge the scientific facts, and they don't skirt away from the stating that Qatar is the biggest GHG emitter per capita in the world..


That's why I like to hire only self-confessed criminals to work around the house. Saves me the fear of having a hypocrite working on my drywall. 

Nice try.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> That's why I like to hire only self-confessed criminals to work around the house. Saves me the fear of having a hypocrite working on my drywall.
> 
> Nice try.


what a silly comparison. what does drywall repair have to do with a prior criminal record?

a more reasonable comparison would be you refused to sell your business to the most qualified buyer who had an excellent offer, simply because their father was from a country you didn't like - even though that would have zero effect on the actual deal or the service provided after the fact.

because that would somehow make you a hypocrite?


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> what a silly comparison. what does drywall repair have to do with a prior criminal record?
> 
> a more reasonable comparison would be you refused to sell your business to the most qualified buyer who had an excellent offer, simply because their father was from a country you didn't like - even though that would have zero effect on the actual deal or the service provided after the fact.
> 
> because that would somehow make you a hypocrite by some people's logic...


Just shows you that the New Left will accept almost any sort of behaviour--provided you're up front about it.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Just shows you that the New Left will accept almost any sort of behaviour--provided you're up front about it.


or it goes to show the Old Right will always force their rigid ideology over facts and reality to fit their narrative.

if selling a news station to the most journalistically qualified prospective buyer makes you a hypocrite, then i'd love to see a hell of a lot more hypocrisy in the media.


----------



## FeXL

MacDoc said:


> What find most entertaining is these right wingers who think they can solve all the financial problems and have not a clue and the record speaks for itself.


What I find second most entertaining about you leftards is that you will blame Bush for the next 40 years for all your financial woes instead of stepping up to the plate, taking ownership & actually doing something besides giving lip service.



MacDoc said:


> How's Alberta doing these days.....against say Norway.?? $3 billion deficit while sitting on one of the largest oil reserves.....hilariously bad management.


No ****e, Sherlock. Considering that we have a provincial gov't that is Liberal in all but name, we're damn lucky to be doing so well. 

BTW, how's that have-not province thing working out for you guys?



MacDoc said:


> There IS no short term fix. Obama at least knows this and has done okay nursing along the US jobs in the face of a slowly deflating balloon from the housing bubble that has to be squeezed.


Obama has done nothing save make the situation worse. Read something else besides the MSM for a change. Get a grip...



MacDoc said:


> Right wing are about as savvy on the economic side as they are on the science side.......why not all.


Geniuses all, then. Thankyouverymuch...



MacDoc said:


> Ontario at least is playing tough where it needs to but with Harper in power - there is little to be done as he dispenses Dutch disease with abandon.


Again, it's always somebody else's fault. McGuinty had nothing to do with it. It's all Harper's fault. Lefties...



MacDoc said:


> Oh well - I'll be down under soon - they are doing a decent job and have a better democratic structure.


Not soon enough. I'd contribute to a fund that would get your sorry arse outta this country 24 hours earlier than planned...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Not soon enough. I'd contribute to a fund that would get your sorry arse outta this country 24 hours earlier than planned...


He's been promising to vacate for years. Don't let him get your hopes up.


----------



## groovetube

Boy, a whole lotta sniping but no outrage from our resident faux moderator.

Well if your conservatives in Alberta are running a deficit despite not needing to, well, they're conservatives! That's what they do! PLenty of examples of this.

BTW, as far as Obama making it worse, well actually, the facts are laughing in your face. I know it's tough for the hard nosed right wingers to swallow that their republican heroes had screwed so incredibly bad. But it seems to just about everyone, that the economy stateside has stabilized, and has started to get better.

That just has to burn.


----------



## margarok

Macfury said:


> Boehner lets loose with the floodgate of tears so often, I'm afraid it's pretty cheap coin.


:yawn:


----------



## margarok

FeXL said:


> What I find most entertaining about these pissed off progressives is that the analogy exercise is utterly lost on them. These household analogies do not pretend to try to solve the deficit and eliminate the debt, nor to simulate the complexities of a country's finances, but to offer perspective on just how futile the miniscule budget cuts actually are against the big picture, the spending.
> 
> Apparently even the most basal of explanations simply fly over their heads. It's no damn wonder they can't run a country, except into the ground...


I will have to jump over to the religious thread to conclude this thought perhaps, but I see so many people in my country/state/region/even local folks who appear to miss the "big picture" on these issues, I feel it can only be some sort of mass delusion, brought on by something along the lines of.... (must jump to religious thread now to say JUDGEMENT.)

All wisecracks aside... I agree with FeXL... spending is out of control and to justify increasing spending, TPTB want to raise revenues by raising taxes, justifying... more spending. It is a vicious cycle that ends in disaster for the Republic of the United States of America. And it can't be good for our neighbors, either.


----------



## groovetube

Spending was out of control long before Obama took office.its just that the republicans aren't smart enough to balance a cheque book.

President Clinton raised taxes on the upper end. Worked pretty well then now didn't it.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> I will have to jump over to the religious thread to conclude this thought perhaps, but I see so many people in my country/state/region/even local folks who appear to miss the "big picture" on these issues, I feel it can only be some sort of mass delusion, brought on by something along the lines of.... (must jump to religious thread now to say JUDGEMENT.)
> 
> All wisecracks aside... I agree with FeXL... spending is out of control and to justify increasing spending, TPTB want to raise revenues by raising taxes, justifying... more spending. It is a vicious cycle that ends in disaster for the Republic of the United States of America. And it can't be good for our neighbors, either.


Yes. Occasionally people raise taxes at the tail end of a boom and claim it builds a rugged economy. In this situation, raising both taxes and spending as Obama is doing will put the brakes on any natural economic recovery.


----------



## groovetube

Funny. Looks like the us economy -is- recovering.

That must burn.


----------



## margarok

groovetube said:


> Funny. Looks like the us economy -is- recovering.
> 
> That must burn.


I hope so. I truly do. I have a 19 year-old son and I truly hope so.


----------



## MacDoc

See it's easy FXL - the record of spending speaks for itself - Reagan, Bush, Muloonie and Harper....all your imaginings of an altered world don't change the figures - 
Why is Harper overseeing the largest government ever and the largest deficit?
Why is Alberta mismanaging it's resources so it can't even keep in the black?
....not even a left winger there to blame.....

meanwhile back on topic 

What a joke the right wing is around the planet.....and blackest comedians of all in the Repuglies. 

snip



> Imagine we hit the debt ceiling Feb. 15. The BPC’s analysis suggests that federal spending over the next month will be about $450 billion. Federal revenues will be nearer to $277 billion. That means that the government will have to default on about 40 percent of its obligations.
> The choices it will face quickly become stark. It can cover interest on the debt, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense spending, education, food stamps and other low-income transfers, and a handful of other programs, but doing all that will mean defaulting on everything — really, everything — else. The FBI will shut down. The people responsible for tracking down loose nukes will lose their jobs. The prisons won’t operate. The biomedical researchers won’t be funded. The court system will close its doors. The tax refunds won’t go out. The Federal Aviation Administration will go offline. The parks will close. Food safety inspections will cease.
> This is the difference between a debt-ceiling shutdown and a government shutdown. As Shai Akabas, a research at the Bipartisan Policy Center, puts it, “in a government shutdown, the government is shutting down future obligations. With the debt ceiling, They’ve already obligated the money. *They owe these people the payments now, and they can’t make them.”*


This is what would happen if we breach the debt ceiling


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> See it's easy FXL - the record of spending speaks for itself - Reagan, Bush, Muloonie and Harper....all your imaginings of an altered world don't change the figures -
> 
> meanwhile back on topic


Your posts continue to astound me. If Obama isn't the big spender that the world knows he is, why would the debt ceiling matter? 

Thanks for making it so easy.


----------



## groovetube

Once again, captain misinformation strikes again, or seems to be the victim of the geniuses who conveniently attribute a large portion of the spending in 2009 as Obama's.

It's funny when you think you're right, that you have to train yourself to accept things like this to validate your position.

And thank YOU, for making it simple, with no back and forthing!


----------



## bryanc

I watched an excellent documentary on the 2008 economic crisis called "Inside Job" last night on Netflix. One thing that is abundantly clear is that Wall St. has co-opted both political parties in the U.S., and while Reagan and the Bushes were active participants in the the malfeasance, Clinton and Obama aren't much better.

At any rate, I highly recommend the film to anyone who's not clear on why the financial meltdown occurred.


----------



## groovetube

I don't doubt it. But I find the 'furious' backpedalling one can predict within minutes whenever anyone suggests that republicans or conservatives are big spenders with resulting massive deficits rather tiring.


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> ...whenever anyone suggests that republicans or conservatives are big spenders with resulting massive deficits rather tiring.


It's a matter of public record; the in the U.S. the economy has done better under democrats, and republicans have run up the most massive debts. Wether correlation = causation is a matter for debate, but the numbers are unequivocal: the political Right has spent more of the public money for the past 50 years.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> It's a matter of public record; the in the U.S. the economy has done better under democrats, and republicans have run up the most massive debts. Wether correlation = causation is a matter for debate, but the numbers are unequivocal: the political Right has spent more of the public money for the past 50 years.


They are not at all unequivocal. Some economies fared better under Democrats, other under Republicans. 

Obama is now the clear leader in spending--the all-time champion. There is no longer even close competition.


----------



## groovetube

It's like a mantra. Keep repeating it desperate, to make it true.

Noooo my heroes couldn't have been the big spenders, or caused a crisis to cause such deficit creation! Noooooooo!


----------



## bryanc

.


----------



## Macfury

This is the same deliberately misleading graph trotted out over and over by Democrats. Since it includes the one-time stimulus programs authorized by Obama in his first year, the tiny 1.4% is an increase following the normalization of exorbitant stimulus spending levels. That's referred to in a note on the bottom of the graph.

Also, note that Obama's increases come at a time when inflation levels are at a historic lows. The numbers are not adjusted for the higher levels of inflation encountered by previous presidents.


----------



## groovetube

Meaning, he prefers it spun a different way


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Your posts continue to astound me. If Obama isn't the big spender that the world knows he is, why would the debt ceiling matter?
> 
> Thanks for making it so easy.


I just can't believe that these people have the blinders on so tight or their heads up their backsides so far they actually believe all this crap. 

Redford. Not a leftie. Jeezuz...


----------



## groovetube

I suppose facts never get in the way of blind devotion to parties who have a clear track record of big spending.

Would you like to pontificate on how Harper is not a big spender, and knows how to balance a chequebook? :lmao::lmao:

Biggest spender in Canadian history, biggest government in history, and, running the biggest deficits. While regular folk are being told we have to wait for a balanced budget for those tax breaks (that went to corporations so they can cash hoard and not create any jobs?? LOL)

Yes let's DO talk about blinders!!! :clap:


----------



## eMacMan

I think this puts things into perspective Stateside.

Was rather surprised that gonorrhea ranked below Congress as it is usually curable and you do have at least a bit of fun in acquiring it.

Congress more popular than Kardashians, Lohan, gonorrhea | The Ticket - Yahoo! News



> Good news, Congress! You’re more popular than telemarketers, the deadly ebola virus, gonorrhea, the Kardashians, Lindsay Lohan, communism, disgraced Democratic former Sen. John Edwards, playground bullies and meth labs.
> 
> Bad news, Congress! Americans still have a higher opinion of head lice, colonoscopies, cockroaches, Nickelback, the NFL replacement refs, and Donald Trump. ....


----------



## groovetube

Nickelback!!!!!!

Oh man that's a true zinger!


----------



## FeXL

So, what happens to an economy when you administer a "cut-to-the-bone budget" instead of spending even more?



> Combs reported Monday that the state collected $8.8 billion more revenue during the current 2012-2013 revenue cycle than she initially forecast, giving lawmakers breathing room in settling a $5.2 billion deficit in the current budget.
> 
> ...
> 
> At the time, unemployment in the state was the highest in a decade and the Legislature faced a $27 billion shortfall. But unemployment now is at a four-year low of 6.2 percent, sales tax receipts are skyrocketing and money is pouring into state coffers behind a new energy boom.


Texas Comptroller reports jump in revenue to $96 billion

A lesson some will never learn...


----------



## groovetube

Certainly Harper isn't getting it...


----------



## FeXL

Long, informative article. I don't expect many progressives to read it but there is good clarification of a number of things for all.

Secrets and Lies of the Bailout



> It has been four long winters since the federal government, in the hulking, shaven-skulled, _Alien Nation_-esque form of then-Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, committed $700 billion in taxpayer money to rescue Wall Street from its own chicanery and greed. To listen to the bankers and their allies in Washington tell it, you'd think the bailout was the best thing to hit the American economy since the invention of the assembly line. Not only did it prevent another Great Depression, we've been told, but the money has all been paid back, and the government even made a profit. No harm, no foul – right?
> 
> Wrong.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, yeah, further on that Obamacare bringing down health care premiums thing.

Not. So. Much.



> Obama promised during the 2008 campaign that his health care initiative would “bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family.” *But according to Forbes, premiums have increased by an average of $3,065 and are set to rise even further.*


Insurers Raising Rates by Double Digits

I luvs it when dem chickens comes home to roost...


----------



## MacDoc

Yah gotta love it - great article



> *Everything You Need to Know About the Crazy Plan to Save the Economy With a Trillion-Dollar Coin*
> By Matthew O'Brien
> 
> inShare5 Jan 8 2013, 3:34 PM ET 67
> The only thing we have to fear is fear of the trillion-dollar coin itself


Everything You Need to Know About the Crazy Plan to Save the Economy With a Trillion-Dollar Coin - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

:clap:


----------



## groovetube

FeXL said:


> Oh, yeah, further on that Obamacare bringing down health care premiums thing.
> 
> Not. So. Much.
> 
> 
> 
> Insurers Raising Rates by Double Digits
> 
> I luvs it when dem chickens comes home to roost...


Who was to blame when they doubled back in the early 2000s?


----------



## margarok

FeXL said:


> Long, informative article. I don't expect many progressives to read it but there is good clarification of a number of things for all.
> 
> Secrets and Lies of the Bailout


Was a thought-provoking article... Thanks.

What do you (all) think of this one?

The Daily Bell - Taxes versus Revenues: Leslie Stahl's Malpractice


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> Was a thought-provoking article... Thanks.
> 
> What do you (all) think of this one?
> 
> The Daily Bell - Taxes versus Revenues: Leslie Stahl's Malpractice


Agree 100%.


----------



## margarok

Should make us all think at least

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAD0xOwmZaI]MTV Martial Law Warnings Commercial - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bryanc

FeXL said:


> Long, informative article. I don't expect many progressives to read it but there is good clarification of a number of things for all.


Who are these "progressives" you keep talking about? Regardless; I pretty much agree with all of the main points of the article.

I certainly see the bank-bailouts as a catastrophic error, but I'm not sure that the alternative of letting them default wouldn't have been worse. The fundamental problems were systemic deregulation of the financial industry in the 80's, and the mergers and acquisitions that followed. We're now effectively governed by a corporatocracy that has national governments by the short-and-curlys. I just don't see any simple solutions to the problem... regulating a financial industry that fundamentally controls the value of your currency (not to mention financing your re-election campaign) is pretty difficult.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Agree 100%.


Yup.


----------



## margarok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMsTkc9ms&feature=player_embedded

So much for deeply held belief systems for GB...tptptptp


----------



## margarok

margarok said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMsTkc9ms&feature=player_embedded
> 
> So much for deeply held belief systems for GB...tptptptp


By the way, to clarify my own feelings about Beck. When I first got involved in the tea party gatherings, I listened to Beck on the radio occasionally. As he grew in popularity and began his strange journey into conspiracy theory worldview, I backed away a bit, still paying attention, but not overly so.

I probably haven't heard ten minutes of any of his interviews or discussions in the last few monts, but still... I thought at heart, he was a person of good character and principle, just somewhat obsessed with the idea that all that is wrong with our country is some sort of planned event. 

So seeing this faking of tears really pissed me off.

Personally, I think that lots of greedy people from all political walks of life have contributed to the demoralization of our culture. I think there is probably some coordination amongst people who have certain agenda-driven goals to manipulate society in a way that benefits them and their organization/cronies, but all in all, the fiscal and moral mess we are facing is, imho, simply the result of a citizenry grown accustomed to a lifestyle they have not earned. We (and I am talking about Americans in general here) feel a certain amount of entitlement and when denied those things we believe should be ours, we look for the scapegoat. When someone like Beck steps forward and offers us an evil villain (or a pack of evil villains), too many are willing to pick up their pitchfork and join the angry mob.

Okay... rant over.


----------



## bryanc

margarok said:


> What do you (all) think of this one?
> 
> The Daily Bell - Taxes versus Revenues: Leslie Stahl's Malpractice


This is completely kooky. "Revenue" does not imply voluntary; it's just income. Taxes are the main form of revenue for governments. There's nothing wrong with that language.

And paying taxes is entirely voluntary; if you don't want to pay taxes, don't use the government's money. If you do some work for farmer bob, and get some milk and eggs in exchange, the government has no right (or ability) to tax you. But if you use the government's currency, the government gets a cut. That's the deal. If you don't think the convenience of currency is worth the cost of paying taxes, don't use it.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> And paying taxes is entirely voluntary; if you don't want to pay taxes, don't use the government's money. If you do some work for farmer bob, and get some milk and eggs in exchange, the government has no right (or ability) to tax you. But if you use the government's currency, the government gets a cut. That's the deal. If you don't think the convenience of currency is worth the cost of paying taxes, don't use it.


This is nonsense. The government demands a cut even if you exchange work or firewood for eggs. It has nothing to do with currency. Look at the barter publications, which list sales tax requirements and how to calculate valuation information for any exchange of goods or services not involving currency.


----------



## Macfury

margarok said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMsTkc9ms&feature=player_embedded
> 
> So much for deeply held belief systems for GB...tptptptp


The opening of the radio show which used to play on a nearby station said the _Glenn Beck Show _was "a fusion of information and entertainment."

You have to take that at its word!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This is nonsense. The government demands a cut even if you exchange work or firewood for eggs. It has nothing to do with currency. Look at the barter publications, which list sales tax requirements and how to calculate valuation information for any exchange of goods or services not involving currency.


Exactly what I was thinking.

I have a contra arrangement with a local magazine. I conduct some photography for them, they trade me ad space. It all has to be documented as to fair market value & included in my tax return.

I don't know if it's the same now, but a few years back contra was illegal in the US. I had a lengthy discussion with my studio software vendor (from the States) about this & we figured a way around the limitations of the software.


----------



## bryanc

In principle, all exchange is supposed to be taxed, because in principle, we all benefit from the public infrastructure, healthcare, education, etc. provided by the government. But the currency system is the mechanism through which taxes are collected (i.e., even if you're doing exchange in a barter economy, you would calculate and pay your tax in dollars; you don't send the government a few eggs).

The point here is that taxation is neither illegal, nor is it confiscation; it is an exchange between two parties; you get the benefits of living in civilization (infrastructure, education, healthcare, a currency system for exchange, etc.) and the government get's a share of the wealth you generate as revenue with which to support the system. The more you benefit, the more you pay. Those who benefit the least, pay little or nothing. Until recently, those who benefit the most paid higher tax rates, but they've managed to corrupt the system and avoid far more taxation than most, which is what most of us see as unfair.

If you don't want to participate, you can run off into the woods somewhere and live "off the grid" pretty much tax free.

At any rate, the point I was making is that it's perfectly reasonable to refer to tax as government "revenue." This is how they get most of their money, so how is it not "revenue?"


----------



## bryanc

This may be illegal in Canada, but in the U.S. many communities have started using their own local currencies. One of the benefits of such a system is that people who come through the town will spend U.S. dollars, but get change in local currency, which is useless outside of town. Although in principle, any of these people could take their local currency to the local town hall or bank to have it exchanged for U.S. dollars, that may not be practical (after hours, etc.), so they'll often just spend it, stimulating the local economy.

Until this form of barter really started becoming significant, exchange in these local currencies was tax free (or taxed only by the local municipality issuing the currency). The tax law surrounding these exchanges is still vague and in flux, as its not clear what the legal relationship between local currencies and federal currencies really is.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc, I already referred to those local currencies earlier when you stated that the federal government had the monopoly on currency. The government's taxation has to do with the value of an item, not the currency. That is why I pay municipal tax on the value of my house, which is never converted to currency.

It is very clear what the tax laws are surrounding these exchanges and the legal relationship between local currencies and federal currencies is. When people use one of these "local bux" currencies they still pay all of the sales tax associated with the purchase, unless the regulators specifically lift it for a certain promotion. 

Haven't you ever used Canadian Tire money?


----------



## iMouse

And now, some words about America (sic). 

Gun violence, obesity cut U.S. life expectancy - thestar.com


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> I already referred to those local currencies earlier when you stated that the federal government had the monopoly on currency.


I don't think I said federal governments have a monopoly on currency; if I did, it was clearly an error, as other currencies clearly exist.



> The government's taxation has to do with the value of an item, not the currency. That is why I pay municipal tax on the value of my house, which is never converted to currency.


I think we're arguing cross-purposues here. We use currency as a medium of exchange, and presumably you pay your property taxes in dollars and not eggs, 'hours-of-work', or even ounces of gold, despite the fact that the value of your house could be converted to any of those as easily as dollars.

My purpose in bringing up currency was in response to the argument that taxation should not be called "revenue" because it is not voluntary. Firstly, I don't see what voluntary exchange has to do with revenue; The IRS ultimately nabbed gangsters on the grounds of tax evasion because they hadn't paid taxes on their illegal revenue... and the 'R' in IRS stands for "Revenue". Furthermore, when you participate in an economy using government issued currency you implicitly agree to be taxed on the exchanges made using that currency.



> Haven't you ever used Canadian Tire money?


This is now entirely tangential, but yes, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Some criminal organizations use Canadian Tire money or other local currencies to avoid taxes. A friend of mine is a tax lawyer and he tells me that the laws surrounding the relationship between local currencies (or even worse, barter exchanges) are extremely complex and a topic of heated debate; they may well change dramatically in the next few years.

At any rate, the point here is that tax is an important and entirely legal revenue stream for governments. Currency facilitates the calculation and collection of taxes. If you want to avoid taxes, avoid using government-issued currency.


----------



## iMouse

Eggs? How about a Fresh Egg Standard?


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> This is now entirely tangential, but yes, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Some criminal organizations use Canadian Tire money or other local currencies to avoid taxes. A friend of mine is a tax lawyer and he tells me that the laws surrounding the relationship between local currencies (or even worse, barter exchanges) are extremely complex and a topic of heated debate; they may well change dramatically in the next few years.


The laws surrounding barter exchanges are simple. One estimates the value if the commodities--labour or goods--then pays sales tax on those values. Any profits made on the deal are considered taxable income.

I could "avoid taxes" as easily using real money as I could using Canadian Tire money--by not reporting the transaction. When I pay a bill using Canadian Tire money, it is treated as real cash and the transaction is taxed at regular rates--based on the value of the item I am buying, not the type of currency I use. 

There is nothing voluntary about paying taxes if you don't believe you should pay them and it has nothing to do with using the a country's main currency.


----------



## margarok

iMouse said:


> Eggs? How about a Fresh Egg Standard?


Now you are talking! Here is my ferocious guardian of our flock of money makers!









There is a real sense of empowerment that accompanies growing and/or raising one's own food, as most of you probably know. Since "money" is simply a way for us to buy and sell our own or others' labor, having the means to supply one's wants and needs without purchasing someone's labor should, theoretically, allow one to live without money.

But... when you have to pay taxes just to live (property taxes, for example), then there is no way one can live without money at all. Once government claims a right to tax your very existence, there is no way to live without participating in the exchange of "money" for property or labor.


----------



## FeXL

I guess this fits in American Politics...

Donald Trump takes Bill Maher's challenge; produces birth certificate, asks for $5 million



> Donald Trump is asking Bill Maher to pay up, and it's all about a birth certificate -- just not the one you may think.
> 
> ...
> 
> According to the story, Trump's lawyer sent a letter along with the Trump's birth certificate to Maher asking him to divide the $5 million he promised among five different charities, including a Hurricane Sandy victim's fund.


Over to you, Bill...


----------



## margarok

FeXL said:


> I guess this fits in American Politics...
> 
> Donald Trump takes Bill Maher's challenge; produces birth certificate, asks for $5 million
> 
> 
> 
> Over to you, Bill...


In the category of being careful what you ask for?


----------



## FeXL

Well, I guess I'm really intrigued by Mahar's upcoming response. 

Is he actually going to even respond? Is he just going to make a mockery of it & laugh it off? Will he pay up?

I rarely watch him so I don't know how often his mouth gets him in trouble; in this case I think it may have. Ball's definitely in his court.

I think option 2 is most likely and 3 the least. I'll be surprised big time if he comes through on 3, I don't know if he has the coin. Even if it's 2, he's going to have to eat some crow.


----------



## groovetube

I guess Trump missed that he was the butt end of a joke.

He's just pisssed because he ended up looking a fool after his BS requests of Obama's BC.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I think option 2 is most likely and 3 the least. I'll be surprised big time if he comes through on 3, I don't know if he has the coin. Even if it's 2, he's going to have to eat some crow.


Good on Trump! Maher is en even more embarrassing blowhard than he has become, so it's fitting.


----------



## groovetube

good on him for not getting he was being made fun of?

Indeed! Good on him! :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

After Raising Taxes, California Expects Budget Surplus In 2014 | ThinkProgress

Imagine that!


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> He's just pisssed because he ended up looking a fool after his BS requests of Obama's BC.


They weren't BS. Obama himself used to publicly claim he was born in Kenya. Some of his own family members still insist that he was. It was absolutely incumbent upon him to prove it either way.


----------



## groovetube

heavyall said:


> They weren't BS. Obama himself used to publicly claim he was born in Kenya. Some of his own family members still insist that he was. It was absolutely incumbent upon him to prove it either way.


Obama publically said he was born in Kenya? Where and when?


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> Obama publicly said he was born in Kenya? Where and when?


You really expect a citation on this??

Tim, sometimes you really disappoint. 

:lmao:


----------



## groovetube

I was feeling charitable.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> I was feeling charitable.


I guess. :clap:


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Obama publically said he was born in Kenya? Where and when?


It was in his official bio on the back flap of his books.

Obama wasn’t born in Kenya, except when he claims he was born in Kenya | The Daily Caller












Obama



> the official website for Dystel & Goderich, Obama’s literary agents – was using the Barack Obama “born in Kenya” language until April 2007, just two months after then-Senator Obama declared his campaign for the presidency.



Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate



> Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.


----------



## groovetube

Right. The one which the editor said it was an error.

Next.


----------



## i-rui

how does a birth certificate *prove* trump isn't the "spawn of his mother having sex with an orangutan."???

wouldn't that require a DNA test? or at the very least hair analysis?


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Right. The one which the editor said it was an error.
> 
> Next.


They didn't start claiming it was an error until AFTER he announced his run for president. He used that bio for several years.


----------



## groovetube

He used that bio for years?

Bull. It appeared erroneously on a book that barely saw the light of day.


----------



## Sonal

i-rui said:


> wouldn't that require a DNA test? or at the very least hair analysis?


Wouldn't a hair analysis just reveal polyester and acrylic fibres?


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> He used that bio for years?
> 
> Bull. It appeared erroneously on a book that barely saw the light of day.



Obama



> the official website for Dystel & Goderich, Obama’s literary agents – was using the Barack Obama “born in Kenya” language until April 2007, just two months after then-Senator Obama declared his campaign for the presidency.


----------



## groovetube

Do some more reading. The bio wasn't from Obama. The mistake was corrected during vetting.

This is no where near any kind of proof, nor is your statement that Obama himself said publically that was born in Kenya even true.

That's a lie. Promoted by the lunatic birthers.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Do some more reading. The bio wasn't from Obama. The mistake was corrected during vetting.
> 
> This is no where near any kind of proof, nor is your statement that Obama himself said publically that was born in Kenya even true.
> 
> That's a lie. Promoted by the lunatic birthers.


His publicist used that bio from 1991 to 2007. Some vetting.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> Do some more reading. The bio wasn't from Obama. The mistake was corrected during vetting.
> 
> This is no where near any kind of proof, nor is your statement that Obama himself said publicly that was born in Kenya even true.
> 
> That's a lie. Promoted by the lunatic birthers.


:lmao:


----------



## groovetube

Nice choice mouse :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

heavyall said:


> His publicist used that bio from 1991 to 2007. Some vetting.


Miriam Goderich wasn't his 'publicist'. She was an agency assistant. It's very easy to find.

Now if you have some more concrete proof beyond this waste of time conspiracy theory, post it. Until then, I'm done with this.

I'm sure you'll find a few cons or a libertarian who'll be happy to believe any of this with you however.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Miriam Goderich wasn't his 'publicist'. She was an agency assistant. It's very easy to find.
> 
> Now if you have some more concrete proof beyond this waste of time conspiracy theory, post it. Until then, I'm done with this.
> 
> I'm sure you'll find a few cons or a libertarian who'll be happy to believe any of this with you however.


That is concrete proof. I don't need to provide anything else. It's not a "conspiracy theory", it's a fact.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> That is concrete proof. I don't need to provide anything else. It's not a "conspiracy theory", it's a fact.


I am not sure that Obama was born in the U.S., but neither am I sure he wasn't. I _am_ certain that he's been a serial liar for decades.


----------



## groovetube

dear god in heaven.... politicians lie????

well, when he tells the colossal one like let's go invade a country based on my lies, kill untold numbers of people, crash our economy and put it right into the ground...

let us know.


----------



## groovetube

groovetube said:


> After Raising Taxes, California Expects Budget Surplus In 2014 | ThinkProgress
> 
> Imagine that!


funny. Not a peep from conservatives over this one, just a diversion...


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> funny. Not a peep from conservatives over this one, just a diversion...


"*Hey*, look over there......"


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> dear god in heaven.... politicians lie????
> 
> well, when he tells the colossal one like let's go invade a country based on my lies, kill untold numbers of people, crash our economy and put it right into the ground...
> 
> let us know.


Well BO is pulling troops from Afghanistan, so I do suspect the MIC has persuaded him that an invasion of Syria and then Iran is now crucial to the recovery of the American economy. 

The propaganda mills certainly seem to indicate that is where the US is heading.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> "*Hey*, look over there......"


What's that supposed to refer to?


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> What's that supposed to refer to?





groovetube said:


> funny. Not a peep from conservatives over this one, *just a diversion... *



 .


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> .


What is your opinion on it?


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> What is your opinion on it?


My opinion is that the Right only report on bad news for the Democrats.

But that's hardly a breaking-news story, now is it?

In Sport, the good ones congratulate a well-played move by their opponent.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> My opinion is that the Right only report on bad news for the Democrats.
> 
> But that's hardly a breaking-news story, now is it?
> 
> In Sport, the good ones congratulate a well-played move by their opponent.


OK, so what's the good news?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> OK, so what's the good news?


The good news is that Pres. Obama was reelected for a second term. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Obama on the national debt...



> ...I rise today to talk about America's debt problem.
> 
> The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure . It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.
> 
> ...
> 
> Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ``trillion'' with a ``T.''
> 
> ...
> 
> Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest.
> 
> ...
> 
> This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments
> 
> ...
> 
> Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America's priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans--a debt tax that Washington doesn't want to talk about.
> 
> ...
> 
> the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next 5 years.
> 
> ...
> 
> it took 42 Presidents 224 years to run up only $1 trillion of foreign-held debt . This administration did more than that in just 5 years.
> 
> ...
> 
> Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ``the buck stops here.'' *Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership . Americans deserve better.*
> 
> *I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit.*


If none of you recognize this tone, these foreign words, they were delivered in 2006, as a senator.

What happened to this man? This view?

I know, I know. It's Bush's fault...


----------



## groovetube

Because at that time, there was no reason why Bush and co. were spending like thieves. 

Here's the difference in case anyone hasn't noticed.

Bush inherited a balanced budget, and a waaaaay lower debt.

Obama, inherited one of the worst financial disasters in American history, spending bills that were already in place before he took office, and an economy that was teetering on full collapse with one wrong move. And you want to joke about whether this was Bush's fault?

You can't be serious...

Here in Canada, we got the malarky about the tax and spend spend spend liberals.

Look at what we got instead! A government who has outspent any in history, and grew government bigger than any before them.'

Tell us more on how conservatives spend less. It makes for some good entertainment. (or not...)


----------



## groovetube

exactly. Because I don't recall the right ever getting their panties in a knot about the incredible spending by Bush.


----------



## Rps

Just finished watching HOT COFFEE, if you truly want to know what's wrong with the U.S. On sooooooo many levels watch this. It clearly indicates what has happened within their legal system is now happening under their political system....Supreme Court rulings bought by special interests. I've seen this first hand. Don"t rate many films as 5 out of 5, but this is certainly one and is relevant to this thread.


----------



## groovetube

interesting. I'll have to look for it.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I know, I know. It's Bush's fault...


Fun to watch those words come back to haunt his fans on EhMac.!


----------



## iMouse

Wheels were greased, fortunes were made. What's the harm???


----------



## groovetube

we certainly, wouldn't want to spend it on health, drugs for seniors, that sort of thing. Keep in the rich's hands. Just tell them some malarky about job creation and the big bad government or something, they'll buy anything.

Gotta keep the liberty thing eh.


----------



## groovetube

If you can't win, change the rules!

Electoral fairness or Election rigging?: Republicans press for changes in how U.S. Presidential vote dolled out | World | News | National Post


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Obama is about to be sworn in as President once again. Say what you will about him, but this is once again a dramatic moment in American history.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama is about to be sworn in as President once again. Say what you will about him, but this is once again a dramatic moment in American history.


It is no more dramatic then GBII being sworn in a second time. The black President barrier was broken four years ago.


----------



## groovetube

Sour grapes?


----------



## Macfury

Obama gave an underwhelming, politicized speech. He still has not grown into the office of the president. Time is running out for that to happen.


----------



## groovetube

We're not surprised at this. I think you've said this for just about every democratic, and liberal speech.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> We're not surprised at this. I think you've said this for just about every democratic, and liberal speech.


Yep MF has dedicated his life to saving the world from Democratic plots. 

All hail their corporate masters!


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Yep MF has dedicated his life to saving the world from Democratic plots.
> 
> All hail their corporate masters!


only to succumb to his worst fears of overspending and debt ironically!

All hail indeed!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is no more dramatic then GBII being sworn in a second time. The black President barrier was broken four years ago.


I was not referring to his race, Macfury, but rather the peaceful election and transition to the presidency once again .............. each time without it being at the end of a gun. Say what you will about America, but they have had 57 such inaugural addresses, in times of civil war and world wars, but it has still been a peaceful swearing in to the office.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I was not referring to his race, Macfury, but rather the peaceful election and transition to the presidency once again .............. each time without it being at the end of a gun. Say what you will about America, but they have had 57 such inaugural addresses, in times of civil war and world wars, but it has still been a peaceful swearing in to the office.


I appreciate this aspect of it--which is why it is just as significant in that regard as any other time that it has occurred.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I appreciate this aspect of it--which is why it is just as significant in that regard as any other time that it has occurred.


I agree, which is the point I was trying to make in my posting. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I agree, which is the point I was trying to make in my posting. Paix, mon ami.


Then we are in agreement, Dr. G. The peaceful handing over of the keys to the presidency, the senate and congress is a remarkable achievement, consistently demonstrated.


----------



## FeXL

Hillary on Benghazi.

WaPo and CBS reporters: Yeah, actually, it makes a difference, Hillary


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Then we are in agreement, Dr. G. The peaceful handing over of the keys to the presidency, the senate and congress is a remarkable achievement, consistently demonstrated.


True, regardless of who is elected. It is peaceful and that is the key component on the American republic. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

When Bill Mahar even takes note...

Maher Shockingly Blasts 'Takers': 'We Have 23.5% Dirt Bags In America'



> Stop the presses! Stop the presses! Bill Maher on Friday actually said something well-reasoned and intelligent that conservatives - including members of the Tea Party - might agree with.
> 
> "We have 23.5 percent dirt bags in America," the HBO Real Time host surprisingly said. *"It just seems like there’s less people pulling the wagon and more people in the wagon, and at some point the wagon is going to break"*


Bold mine.

Gobsmacked...


----------



## groovetube

is this where the right is dumbfounded that even people who sit to the left politically are aware of people who abuse the system?

as for agreeing with the tea party, well that being a stretch, is the understatement. You'd have to go past being gobsmacked, and think about this a little more carefully.


----------



## i-rui

Anyone who watches Maher knows that he trashes a lot of democrat and liberal positions on his show. The litmus test is if he feels something is stupid or wrong he'll go after it.

It just seems more often than not it's republicans in the "stupid & wrong" camp.

Relating to the "dirt bags" comment, he said as much last year per election- and even ran a video peice. (Ill try to dig it up)


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Anyone who watches Maher knows that he trashes a lot of democrat and liberal positions on his show. The litmus test is if he feels something is stupid or wrong he'll go after it.



Yes, and his "feelings" slant heavily away from his obviously liberal position.


----------



## i-rui

Yes he has an opinion - that's kind of the point on his show. But the great thing about his show is he doesn't limit the discussion to only his viewpoint. Every week he has conservatives on his show. The entire point is the debate.


-----

Dug up the YouTube clip:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

The right tends to need to see things in absolutes. Y'know, yer either for us, or against us. The idea that someone could be a liberal, but strongly and publicly criticize things they see happening, is foreign to them. See the assumption that now Maher agrees with the tea party! Even though, the opinion is no where near what the tea party believes.

Good on Maher for having open debate. That needs to happen a hell of a lot more, and perhaps less of teh crazies we've had to put up with (on both sides) in the last while.


----------



## bryanc

One of the things I've observed occurring over the past few decades in politics in general, but especially in the US, is that the Right is becoming more and more extreme and irrational, whereas the Left is becoming more and more moderate.

Where are the Left-wing extremists who compare to the Rush Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the O'Reily's, and the Ted Nugents? When you look at "Left-leaning" sources like NPR, or MSNBC, or even at individuals like Maher or Jon Stewart, their positions have nuance, they recognize faults in policies regardless of the sources and criticize Democrats as well as Republicans (obviously they criticize the Republicans more than the Democrats, but that's because the Republicans really are worse); Obama does not get a free ride. The left now encompasses essentially all of the intellectually honest people in the US.

What's terrifying is that even so, they're still only barely clinging to control.


----------



## groovetube

controlling the message, and using fear. Irrational fear.

Witness them arming themselves in droves. You can't make this stuff up. The color coded warning system. It makes the duck and cover campaign look absolutely humorous.


----------



## Sonal

bryanc said:


> Where are the Left-wing extremists who compare to the Rush Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the O'Reily's, and the Ted Nugents?


They are out there, they just don't have radio shows. 

I would agree with you that the Right is getting more and more irrational, but there's an irrational Left as well. I wouldn't say that the left is becoming increasingly moderate so much as the prominent lefties are still largely moderates whereas the irrational left is more on the fringe. For now. (A lot of the whole 1% vs 99% dialogue starts getting very extreme.)

I saw this article while ago--I post as an example of the similarly hyperbolic language that the increasingly less moderate Right uses. 
Iceland Was Right, We Were Wrong: The IMF - TheStreet

A person who agrees with this basic arguments of the article might not find it so offensive, but it's still in the language. It others. It moralizes. It blames the media. My political views tend to be left-leaning in a lot of things, and I found the language used in this over-the-top and ridiculous.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> One of the things I've observed occurring over the past few decades in politics in general, but especially in the US, is that the Right is becoming more and more extreme and irrational, whereas the Left is becoming more and more moderate.
> 
> Where are the Left-wing extremists who compare to the Rush Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the O'Reily's, and the Ted Nugents? When you look at "Left-leaning" sources like NPR, or MSNBC, or even at individuals like Maher or Jon Stewart, their positions have nuance, they recognize faults in policies regardless of the sources and criticize Democrats as well as Republicans (obviously they criticize the Republicans more than the Democrats, but that's because the Republicans really are worse); Obama does not get a free ride. The left now encompasses essentially all of the intellectually honest people in the US.
> 
> What's terrifying is that even so, they're still only barely clinging to control.


This is nonsense. The Limbaughs, the Hannitys and others are also very critical of the Republican/conservative establishment.This is the typical attitude of people who are not familiar with those programs.


----------



## MacGuiver

bryanc said:


> Where are the Left-wing extremists


Hollywood


----------



## groovetube

Hollywood? Naw, it's mostly narcissism, not left wing politics. 

But I -can- see how the right might miss that distinction though


----------



## FeXL

Further on EPA's Lisa Jackson...

The EPA's Lisa Jackson: The Worst Head of the Worst Regulatory Agency, Ever



> A senior presidential appointee who epitomizes all of those flaws is EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, who has a cynical, hyper-regulatory, damn-the-science philosophy that resembles the Europeans’ innovation-busting “precautionary principle,” the view that until a product or activity has been definitively proven safe, it should be banned or at least smothered with regulation. Jackson – who has just announced her resignation — seems unaware that regulation has costs, direct and indirect; that regulators should strive to limit the intrusiveness of oversight to the level that is necessary and sufficient; and that her agency has myriad deficiencies in both policies and personnel.


Yup.



> In so many ways, EPA pollutes the cause of transparent, effective government. *It’s hard to imagine a successor to Lisa Jackson who would be a worse steward of the environment, but I’m sure President Obama will do his best to find one.*


Bold mine.

I have faith in the great one to succeed...


----------



## kps

Is it ever becoming a gong show down there..

So the DHS, wants Personal protection weapons...7000 of them. I don't know who they expect to fight, but the weapons they're talking about are fully automatics. Now the semi-automatic civilian versions they refer to as "assault Weapons" but for them these are personal PROTECTION weapons.

Are they expecting to fight the civilians gun owners? LOL



> The Department of Homeland Security is seeking to acquire 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO “personal defense weapons” (PDW) — also known as “assault weapons” when owned by civilians. The solicitation, originally posted on June 7, 2012, comes to light as the Obama administration is calling for a ban on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines.
> 
> Citing a General Service Administration (GSA) request for proposal (RFP), Steve McGough of RadioViceOnline.com reports that DHS is asking for the 7,000 “select-fire” firearms because they are “suitable for personal defense use in close quarters.” The term select-fire means the weapon can be both semi-automatic and automatic. Civilians are prohibited from obtaining these kinds of weapons.
> 
> The RFP describes the firearm as “Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) – 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.” Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that “have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”



If ‘Assault Weapons’ Are Bad…Why Does DHS Want to Buy 7,000 of Them for ‘Personal Defense’? | TheBlaze.com


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> This is nonsense. The Limbaughs, the Hannitys and others are also very critical of the Republican/conservative establishment.This is the typical attitude of people who are not familiar with those programs.


Funny, I just read this, and laughed pretty hard.

Seriously macfury, own up. This post has a pretty severe disconnect, so you must be pulling a leg there. And a bit too obvious even for you! :clap:


----------



## groovetube

kps said:


> Is it ever becoming a gong show down there..
> 
> So the DHS, wants Personal protection weapons...7000 of them. I don't know who they expect to fight, but the weapons they're talking about are fully automatics. Now the semi-automatic civilian versions they refer to as "assault Weapons" but for them these are personal PROTECTION weapons.
> 
> Are they expecting to fight the civilians gun owners? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If ‘Assault Weapons’ Are Bad…Why Does DHS Want to Buy 7,000 of Them for ‘Personal Defense’? | TheBlaze.com


Of course they want that. In order to protect yourself, it's best to have something stronger with better firepower than the person attacking correct?

If you're in an establishment where it's possible nutbars may show up with semi auto weapons and possibly fully auto and perhaps some body armour, it may be time to consider a couple pill boxes in the front with a pair of 50 cals to blast them.


----------



## iMouse

If they ever fire one on auto, you'll hear a burp, followed by 30 bullets in 'close quarters'.

Why don't they call it what is is, a machine pistol? Back-ground.

I would not want to be in a crowded airport when that happened.


----------



## FeXL

State Dept. Publicized Names, Photos of Stevens' Benghazi Security Detail Before 9/11/12; Suppressed Their Identities Afterward



> Before the Sept. 11, 2012 terrorist attacks in Benghazi, the department undertook a calculated effort to publicize the agents’ names and faces--presenting them in a State Department promotional magazine posted on the Internet. After the Sept. 11, 2012 terrorist attacks, the State Department has treated the names and faces of the DS agents who survived those attacks as if they were classified information.


Further:



> This remarkable about-face raises two questions: Why can’t the American people know the names--and hear the stories--of the heroic DS agents who fought the terrorists who attacked our mission in Benghazi? Why can’t these courageous survivors deliver their eyewitnesses accounts directly to the U.S. Congress?


Why, indeed.

The American people need to find their spines & start dealing with this stuff, asking pointed questions of the right people. And bull**** answers like "What difference does it make" just don't cut it.

Four people died on your watch, Hillary. That's the difference...


----------



## mlmummert

There are left wing radio shows out there and they're just as bad as the right wing ones. It's just a different group to be brainwashed with different talking points.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## i-rui

mlmummert said:


> There are left wing radio shows out there and they're just as bad as the right wing ones. It's just a different group to be brainwashed with different talking points.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


false equivalency.

while there certainly are left wing radio hosts, they are nowhere near as bad as the worst offenders from the right, and they certainly don't hold the same political power in their party of choice (where Limbaugh & co. makes or breaks republican candidates)


----------



## mlmummert

i-rui said:


> false equivalency.
> 
> while there certainly are left wing radio hosts, they are nowhere near as bad as the worst offenders from the right, and they certainly don't hold the same political power in their party of choice (where Limbaugh & co. makes or breaks republican candidates)


Yeah you do have a point about the power Rush and company have over one party.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> false equivalency.
> 
> while there certainly are left wing radio hosts, they are nowhere near as bad as the worst offenders from the right, and they certainly don't hold the same political power in their party of choice (where Limbaugh & co. makes or breaks republican candidates)


That's because the left wing radio hosts are serving the Democrat party, The Limbaugh program is an opinion maker.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> The Limbaugh program is an opinion maker.


The Limbaugh program is a money maker.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

Nothing says democracy like calling a woman a slut because she supports access to contraception.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> The Limbaugh program is a money maker.]


It certainly is--and continues to be enormously proud of that fact. The meagre left wing radio programs are definitely not. Their tiny, dwindling audience is simply not large enough.


----------



## groovetube

Well if those left wing radio shows were so radical and their audiences are dwindling, that just shows that the left aren't interested in such extremes.

I guess there are more on the right that allow themselves to be taken by these 'money maker' shock hosts.

Good point! :clap:


----------



## iMouse

They succeed with the right because you don't have to be able to read to watch radio. LOL


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> They succeed with the right because you don't have to be able to read to watch radio. LOL


Jeepers--you don;t have to read to watch all of the major news outlets either, and they're dominated in the U.S. by leftist interests.


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> Jeepers--you don;t have to read to watch all of the major news outlets either, and they're dominated in the U.S. by leftist interests.


That must drive Rupert to distraction.


----------



## groovetube

wait a second, I thought they were dwindling.

Tough to keep track of the squirming.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> Tough to keep track of the squirming.


Perhaps flea powder holds relief.


----------



## groovetube

Or a damn good dunk in the water fora while.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> Or a damn good dunk in the water for a while.


You think that a wise choice Tim?

A dunk in water is what got this whole thing started.

<segway to scene in *O Brother, Where Art Thou?*>


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Jeepers--you don;t have to read to watch all of the major news outlets either, and they're dominated in the U.S. by *leftist interests*.


yes, all of those *corporate* leftist interests!

lol

just how far right do you have to be when corporate/right of centre becomes "leftist"? Democrats are at best centre left, and the fully owned corporate media that covers the news is *well* right of them. Heaven forbid if a real "leftist" party entered the US political spectrum. Right wing heads would explode. (although maybe they'd stop calling Obama a "socialist" if they saw a legitimate one).


----------



## groovetube

they wouldn't know a socialist from a sufist at this point.


----------



## groovetube

Why is it the right is constantly running around in circles.

White House answers

I recall hearing someone proudly proclaiming that someone probably never even shot a gun before. As if that would have anything to do really with the gun crime issue.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> I recall hearing someone proudly proclaiming that someone probably never even shot a gun before. As if that would have anything to do really with the gun crime issue.


They haven't felt the primordial power in their loins from doing so. Poor saps. 

Their society is doing a damn good job of instilling fear in the minds of everyday people.

And, as always, the proper response is "Follow the money!!".


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> yes, all of those *corporate* leftist interests!
> 
> lol
> 
> just how far right do you have to be when corporate/right of centre becomes "leftist"? Democrats are at best centre left, and the fully owned corporate media that covers the news is *well* right of them. Heaven forbid if a real "leftist" party entered the US political spectrum. Right wing heads would explode. (although maybe they'd stop calling Obama a "socialist" if they saw a legitimate one).


It's the reporters and news gatherers who are leftists. However, companies such as GE support this Democrat favouritism simply because ridiculous green energy programs allow them to deduct so much from their taxes, that they receive a rebate.

Obama is a socialist. Their heads would explode if they met a communist.


----------



## groovetube

I think what it is, is that the right desperately needs, the left. Terms like 'socialist', and phrases like 'tax and spend' etc., is really all they have.

Imagine the utter confusion as it dawns on them that it's a fairy tale. (if it does)

^^^ See, it doesn't know, what a socialist actually is.


----------



## SINC

^
waa.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Obama is a socialist. Their heads would explode if they met a communist.


if Obama is a Socialist, so was Reagan, Bush 1&2 and every other President from the modern era. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all socialist programs. America has been a blend of a socialist democracy that embraced capitalism for nearly it's entire history.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> if Obama is a Socialist, so was Reagan, Bush 1&2 and every other President from the modern era. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all socialist programs. America has been a blend of a socialist democracy that embraced capitalism for nearly it's entire history.


A valid point, i-rui. At it's core, America has a sense that people need some protection provided by the government. True, there have been times when people have needed protection from interventions from the government, but overall, many of the social programs are needed by some people in the US. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> if Obama is a Socialist, so was Reagan, Bush 1&2 and every other President from the modern era. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all socialist programs. America has been a blend of a socialist democracy that embraced capitalism for nearly it's entire history.





Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, i-rui. At it's core, America has a sense that people need some protection provided by the government. True, there have been times when people have needed protection from interventions from the government, but overall, many of the social programs are needed by some people in the US. Paix, mon ami.


exactly. This whole socialist slam is laughable at best.

The fury needs a wee primer on it.


----------



## SINC

Waa


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> if Obama is a Socialist, so was Reagan, Bush 1&2 and every other President from the modern era. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all socialist programs. America has been a blend of a socialist democracy that embraced capitalism for nearly it's entire history.


I would agree that many of them were mired in socialist thinking, Bush 2 especially. I would argue that Reagan wanted to leave that decaying model behind. 

I would differntiate only slightly in that Bush 1 and II were statists, more than socialists. They believed, wrongly, that they were better equipped to spend other people's money to do good. 

Obama embraces socialism wholeheartedly and without reservation.


----------



## jef

Macfury said:


> I would agree that many of them were mired in socialist thinking, Bush 2 especially. I would argue that Reagan wanted to leave that decaying model behind.
> 
> I would differntiate only slightly in that Bush 1 and II were statists, more than socialists. They believed, wrongly, that they were better equipped to spend other people's money to do good.
> 
> Obama embraces socialism wholeheartedly and without reservation.


I'll let Bill handle this one:

"Over the last 30 odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into the mental hospital. So what we have is one perfectly good party for hedge fund managers, credit card companies, banks, defense contractors, big agriculture and the pharmaceutical lobby... That's the Democrats. And they sit across the aisle from a small group of religious lunatics, flat-earthers and civil war re-enactors who mostly communicate by AM radio and call themselves the Republicans and who actually worry that Obama is a socialist. Socialist? He's not even a liberal." --Bill Maher

...and again:

Bill Maher: Obama ‘is a lousy socialist’ | The Raw Story


----------



## groovetube

jef said:


> I'll let Bill handle this one:
> 
> "Over the last 30 odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into the mental hospital. So what we have is one perfectly good party for hedge fund managers, credit card companies, banks, defense contractors, big agriculture and the pharmaceutical lobby... That's the Democrats. And they sit across the aisle from a small group of religious lunatics, flat-earthers and civil war re-enactors who mostly communicate by AM radio and call themselves the Republicans and who actually worry that Obama is a socialist. Socialist? He's not even a liberal." --Bill Maher
> 
> ...and again:
> 
> Bill Maher: Obama ‘is a lousy socialist’ | The Raw Story


again, exactly. These people tossing out the term socialist should be embarrassed at their lack of understanding.


----------



## Macfury

jef said:


> I'll let Bill handle this one:
> 
> "Over the last 30 odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into the mental hospital. So what we have is one perfectly good party for hedge fund managers, credit card companies, banks, defense contractors, big agriculture and the pharmaceutical lobby... That's the Democrats. And they sit across the aisle from a small group of religious lunatics, flat-earthers and civil war re-enactors who mostly communicate by AM radio and call themselves the Republicans and who actually worry that Obama is a socialist. Socialist? He's not even a liberal." --Bill Maher
> 
> ...and again:
> 
> Bill Maher: Obama ‘is a lousy socialist’ | The Raw Story


"Bill" hasn't handled it at all. Republicans have moved left and Democrats have move far left, with the exception of very few issues.


----------



## groovetube

:lmao:


----------



## jef

groovetube said:


> :lmao:


:lmao: :lmao:


----------



## bryanc

when all else fails, deny reality. And the arguments of the far-right have been nothing if not an epic failure.


----------



## iMouse

bryanc said:


> when all else fails, deny reality. And the arguments of the far-right have been nothing if not an epic failure.


I disagree with that statement. That depends on who is defining failure.

They are firmly in the "I'm all right Jack" group.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> when all else fails, deny reality. And the arguments of the far-right have been nothing if not an epic failure.


And the policies of the "far right" are....? Think carefully about this, because it's too easy to say "group X is far right, so their policies are far right." What is it about the policy itself that makes it far right?


----------



## Macfury

I'm glad to see that all of the people who were on Bush's case for "warrantless wiretapping" are silent in the face of this one, in which the Obama Administration reserves the rights to kill American citizens with drones, with no supporting evidence:



> A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S





> “This is a chilling document,” said Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU, which is suing to obtain administration memos about the targeted killing of Americans. “Basically, it argues that the government has the right to carry out the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen. … It recognizes some limits on the authority it sets out, but the limits are elastic and vaguely defined, and it’s easy to see how they could be manipulated.”


EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans - Open Channel

Is "Crooks and Liars" on this yet?


----------



## groovetube

Let;s be clear about this. This isn't anything like the wiretapping thing like you make this out to be. I can only assume this is to stir something up, since it's seems rather obvious when you read the article.



> such as the September 2011 strike in Yemen that killed alleged al-Qaida operatives Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan. Both were U.S. citizens who had never been indicted by the U.S. government nor charged with any crimes.


Suspected Al qaida operatives in Yemen? 

Bulgaria bus bombing suspect is Canadian dual national: Baird | CTV News

Hey look he's a Canadian. So if a Canadian military force was involved in taking this guy out, can expect to see a headline from you along the lines of "Canadian government authorized to Kill Canadians even if they're only suspected of being a terrorist'? :lmao:

next.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Is "Crooks and Liars" on this yet?


Yes. They've been complaining about it since 2009.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Yes. They've been complaining about it since 2009.


This is a newly released document, describing a different set of powers.


----------



## CubaMark

C&L have been consistent in calling out Obama's disappointing performance on the civil rights front as well as his handling of the economy. Your blind spot for their coverage is telling.

And your assessment of the Republicans and Democrats as moving leftward... that's simply an insane position to take. Obama certainly is no socialist, no matter how his critics like to paint him. No socialist gives Wall Street that kind of bailout and refuses to prosecute white collar criminals. 

In a choice between Obama and any contemporary Republican, I would back Obama - but only as the lesser of many evils. The guys on the Right side of the aisle are just too far gone to be taken seriously.


----------



## Macfury

My question about C&A was nit whether they had _ever_ been critical of Obama, but why they were not on this as quickly as they attack those on the other end of the political spectrum. I'll give them a few days to catch up.



CubaMark said:


> bama certainly is no socialist, no matter how his critics like to paint him. No socialist gives Wall Street that kind of bailout and refuses to prosecute white collar criminals.


A socialist will offer that sort of bail-out and refuse to prosecute white collar criminals, provided those businesses serve current political needs. I have not seen Obama pass a single piece of legislation that suggests to me that he favours anything other than increased regulation, increased spending, and increased control of the economy.

I see Obama pushing socialism as far as he can, given the current political climate. I don't expect him to get it done overnight.


----------



## groovetube

That still isn't a socialist. Some people's definitions are just embarrassing.


----------



## groovetube

Why the U.S. Congress is now considering limits on drone strikes | CTV News



> WASHINGTON -- Uncomfortable with the Obama administration's use of deadly drones, a growing number in Congress is looking to limit America's authority to kill suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens. The Democratic-led outcry was emboldened by the revelation in a newly surfaced Justice Department memo that shows drones can strike against a wider range of threats, with less evidence, than previously believed.
> 
> Read more: Why the U.S. Congress is now considering limits on drone strikes | CTV News


Democratic led? tellll me more.



> First detailed publicly by NBC News late Monday, the memo for the first time outlines the Obama administration's decision to kill al Qaeda terror suspects without any evidence that specific and imminent plots are being planned against the United States.
> "The threat posed by al Qaeda and its associated forces demands a broader concept of imminence in judging when a person continually planning terror attacks presents an imminent threat," concluded the document.
> *The memo was immediately decried by civil liberties groups as "flawed" and "profoundly disturbing" -- especially in light of 2011 U.S. drone strikes in Yemen that killed three American citizens*: Anwar al-Awlaki, his 16-year-old-son and Samir Khan. Al-Awlaki was linked to the planning and execution of several attacks targeting U.S. and Western interests, including the attempt to down a Detroit-bound airliner in 2009 and the plot to bomb cargo planes in 2010. His son was killed in a separate strike on a suspected al Qaeda den. Khan was an al Qaeda propagandist.


Oh, you mean that civil liberty groups, _aren't_ giving the Obama admin a pass on this?



> The Senate Foreign Relations Committee likely will hold hearings on U.S. drone policy, an aide said Tuesday, and Chairman Robert Menendez, D-N.J., and the panel's top Republican, Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, both have quietly expressed concerns about the deadly operations. And earlier this week, a group of 11 Democratic and Republican senators urged President Barack Obama to release a classified Justice Department legal opinion j*ustifying when U.S. counterterror missions, including drone strikes, can be used to kill American citizens abroad.*


One wonders why anyone would compare drone strikes on foreign soil to domestic wiretapping on American citizens, _in America_.

There's just so much wrong with how this was presented, though "I hate Obama!!! I really really do!" was clear.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> This is a newly released document, describing a different set of powers.


Its from April 07, 2009. You asked why they didn't jump on this earlier... they jumped on it within a day of the policy being announced.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Its from April 07, 2009. You asked why they didn't jump on this earlier... they jumped on it within a day of the policy being announced.


It is not the same issue.


----------



## groovetube

While we're being vague about things, praying for something, something to dig that darn 'O' man with, I'll post this image.


----------



## bryanc

I have to admit that the Republicans are probably doing more to further the cause of liberalism in the US than the Democrats. If the Republicans weren't so mean, stupid and just plain crazy, they'd easily beat the wishy-washy Dems in any election, so they've effectively handed the white house to the Democrats. It's just that the Democrats are now a right-wing party with no real backbone.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I have to admit that the Republicans are probably doing more to further the cause of liberalism in the US than the Democrats. If the Republicans weren't so mean, stupid and just plain crazy, they'd easily beat the wishy-washy Dems in any election, so they've effectively handed the white house to the Democrats. It's just that the Democrats are now a right-wing party with no real backbone.


When the majority of the population is on the dole in some form or another, it becomes more difficult for the Republicans to beat the Santa Claus party.


----------



## groovetube

Let's remember who put those people on the dole in the first place.

The best the republicans can muster here is, 'Obama isn't putting people *back to work *quick enough'.


----------



## Sonal

Yay Santa!


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> When the majority of the population is on the dole...


I thought your guy Mitt had it pegged at 47%. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I thought your guy Mitt had it pegged at 47%. :lmao:


He was wrong--the number is far greater.


----------



## bryanc

You're damned right he was wrong. If you count all the military contractors, not to mention the military itself, and all the companies that do business with the .gov at various levels, essentially everyone in the US (or any other developed country for that matter) is 'on the doll' by your definition.

What you seem to fail to recognize is that government contracts are not necessarily 'unproductive' work. When government pays for building a bridge or doing some research, society benefits. When government pays healthcare workers to treat patients, firemen to put out fires, police officers to enforce the law, and teachers to educate students, society benefits. These are productive people, not deadweight that has to be dragged around by the heroic captains of industry.

While I agree we could do with a lot less military spending (and the US could do with orders of magnitude less), and clearly there are plenty of examples of waste in government programs, I don't reflexively discount all government spending as wasteful or undesirable. Furthermore, part of the reason we know about the waste in government is that public spending is generally more accessible to public audits; the waste in industry is not as easily exposed, but to think that private corporations don't engage in the same type of wasteful spending as governments is naive. Of course, that doesn't justify allowing our governments to continue to waste, it's just important to recognize that all large organizations are inherently wasteful, and while we can try to hold government to a higher standard, it's not easy to do.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi...

Panetta: Obama Absent Night of Benghazi

No Word from Hillary During Benghazi Attack

General on Benghazi: 'We Never Received a Request for Support from the State Department'

Just...sad


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> You're damned right he was wrong. If you count all the military contractors, not to mention the military itself, and all the companies that do business with the .gov at various levels, essentially everyone in the US (or any other developed country for that matter) is 'on the doll' by your definition.


Yes!

However, the number of _individuals_ on the dole will make it increasingly difficult to elect a party that does not have Santa Claus as its presidential candidate.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Yay Santa!


I agree. Yay Santa!


----------



## iMouse

A chicken in every pot, and a car in every driveway. Or something like that.

Sound familiar?


----------



## Dr.G.

iMouse said:


> A chicken in every pot, and a car in every driveway. Or something like that.
> 
> Sound familiar?


Pres. Hoover did make a variety of optimistic statements during the 1932 campaign, such as, "the slogan of progress is changing from the full dinner pail to the full garage," and "given a chance to go forward with the policies of the last eight years, and we shall soon with the help of God be in sight of the day when poverty will be banished from this Nation," but Hoover never promised "a chicken in every pot."

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## speckledmind

:d


----------



## FeXL

When the left has lost the Huffington Post...

State Of The Union Fact Check: Obama's Big Speech Scrutinized 



> President Barack Obama did some cherry-picking Tuesday night in defense of his record on jobs...


Ya don't say. 

Lying teleprompters...


----------



## Macfury

Yes, the net loss of employed people during Obama's term of office is not encouraging.


----------



## groovetube

ah, "the net loss"...

Generally when you see this one hauled out, you know there's a stinging mark left by a republican government who left office with not only having spent themselves silly, but left an out of control train wreck with record job losses that so far, has never been topped by any other president since the great depression including Obama.

Thankfully the US has a president that is returning things better than they were since the last republican government, but at a more sustainable rate, rather than the reckless impatient right who doesn't seem to understand the concept of sustainable growth.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ah, "the net loss"...
> 
> Generally when you see this one hauled out, you know there's a stinging mark left by a republican government who left office with not only having spent themselves silly, but left an out of control train wreck with record job losses that so far, has never been topped by any other president since the great depression including Obama.
> 
> Thankfully the US has a president that is returning things better than they were since the last republican government, but at a more sustainable rate, rather than the reckless impatient right who doesn't seem to understand the concept of sustainable growth.


A valid point, gt. I think that Pres. Obama shall do better in his second term than his first. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I think that Pres. Obama shall do better in his second term than his first. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


The abysmal performance of his first term would be tough to beat. I think he could do better sleepwalking.


----------



## i-rui

What a sad indictment of all Republican candidates when a sleepwalking Obama can do a better job than them.


----------



## bryanc

I'm certainly glad to see Obama being called out for his cherry picking; I really think these fact checking organizations are improving the political discourse (although I'm worried it will continue the trend of political speech becoming increasingly devoid of facts or specifics to check).

That being said, it seemed to me that Obama was hitting most of the right notes. I'm inclined to wonder if he intentionally sacrificed some of his first-term agenda to demonstrate the pettiness of the Republicans, so he can justify pushing harder the second term.

To be honest, while I was as happy as most Canadians to see Obama elected the first time, I predicted he'd be a one-term president. I figured, whoever winds up holding the bag after Bush is going to have to deal with impossible choices and won't be able to make anyone happy. While I was right that Obama didn't make many people happy during his first term, he (surprisingly) managed to communicate the causes and his proposed solutions for the problems in a way that resonated with the majority of American voters. Weathering the economic, social and political storms arising from two terms of the worst president in US history has to rank as Obama's crowning political achievement.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> While I was right that Obama didn't make many people happy during his first term, he (surprisingly) managed to communicate the causes and his proposed solutions for the problems in a way that resonated with the majority of American voters.


He promised the biggest sack of candy to Americans on the dole. This resonated with them alright!


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> What a sad indictment of all Republican candidates when a sleepwalking Obama can do a better job than them.


:clap::clap::clap:

Well put, i-rui. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> What a sad indictment of all Republican candidates when a sleepwalking Obama can do a better job than them.


:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> What a sad indictment of all Republican candidates when a sleepwalking Obama can do a better job than them.


He cannot and has not. As I said, he has the biggest sack of candy to hand out.


----------



## groovetube

Stamping your feet doesn't change the facts. 

Obama so far had much better results in improving the economy than the last republican president. You may not be happy with him, or like some of his policies, but that is a fact that cannot be disputed.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Stamping your feet doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Obama so far had much better results in improving the economy than the last republican president. You may not be happy with him, or like some of his policies, but that is a fact that cannot be disputed.


A valid point, gt. However, facts can be disputed by "stamping your feet", saying up is down and cold is hot ................. not that they change the fact, just that they may be disputed. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, gt. However, facts can be disputed by "stamping your feet", saying up is down and cold is hot ................. not that they change the fact, just that they may be disputed.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I suppose you can try. And god knows, macfury will indeed say up is down, as we all know.

But I don't know that that qualifies as a fact being disputed.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> However, facts can be disputed by "stamping your feet", saying up is down and cold is hot ................. not that they change the fact, just that they may be disputed.


That's right Dr. G--pay no attention to the skyrocketing debt, the drop in the total number of Americans in the workforce or the staggeringly low growth in GDP. This is a sustainable economy as defined by Barack Obama!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's right Dr. G--pay no attention to the skyrocketing debt, the drop in the total number of Americans in the workforce or the staggeringly low growth in GDP. This is a sustainable economy as defined by Barack Obama!


Well, things are getting better economically so it's a start. It is not easy putting the train back on the tracks following a train wreck. So, I still feel that Pres. Obama is doing a good job.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, things are getting better economically so it's a start. It is not easy putting the train back on the tracks following a train wreck. So, I still feel that Pres. Obama is doing a good job.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I suspect this is something leaves a mark.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I suppose you can try. And god knows, macfury will indeed say up is down, as we all know.
> 
> But I don't know that that qualifies as a fact being disputed.


You say "tomato" and I say "tomato" ............... and Macfury says "potato" ...... anything you say might be disputed. You are like a magnet for disagreements, gt, even when you are correct, so get used to this status. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown". 

This is why I don't partake in many of the threads that just go back and forth and back and forth ......... over and over again. Still, I enjoy reading your comments so keep up the good fight. Don't let the foot stompers drown you out. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, things are getting better economically so it's a start. It is not easy putting the train back on the tracks following a train wreck. So, I still feel that Pres. Obama is doing a good job.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


A dreadful start. 

it's fairly easy to get an economy to post some good numbers after inheriting a poor situation. However, mired in trillions of dollars of unnecessary debt and failed stimulus, the country will spend many more years mired in the Obama recovery.

We shall not agree about his performance.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> You say "tomato" and I say "tomato" ............... and Macfury says "potato" ...... anything you say might be disputed. You are like a magnet for disagreements, gt, even when you are correct, so get used to this status. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown".
> 
> This is why I don't partake in many of the threads that just go back and forth and back and forth ......... over and over again. Still, I enjoy reading your comments so keep up the good fight. Don't let the foot stompers drown you out. Paix, mon ami.


I and a few other dr. G. When I stop or go away for a few weeks, I come back and see a few others all wearing the same crown. If I don't, others do.

It takes two to tango, I can't do so myself, and certainly when I don't feel like dancing, there's a lineup behind me.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> I and a few other dr. G. When I stop or go away for a few weeks, I come back and see a few others all wearing the same crown. If I don't, others do.
> 
> It takes two to tango, I can't do so myself, and certainly when I don't feel like dancing, there's a lineup behind me.


Well, gt, keep the faith. Voices of reason need to be heard above the din of "no, no, no" ............ "Pres. Obama is wrong/bad/weak/a socialist/etc/ect/ect/". I tire of all the negativity since it is not fully deserved, but there is no way to combat this sort of negativity. Any fact will be denied, with half-truths put in their place and all sorts of omissions of reality or history to bolster the arguement.

So, I wish you well in your undertaking. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, gt, keep the faith. Voices of reason need to be heard above the din of "no, no, no" ............ "Pres. Obama is wrong/bad/weak/a socialist/etc/ect/ect/". I tire of all the negativity since it is not fully deserved, but there is no way to combat this sort of negativity. Any fact will be denied, with half-truths put in their place and all sorts of omissions of reality or history to bolster the arguement.
> 
> So, I wish you well in your undertaking. Paix, mon ami.


It isn't as if it's hard


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> It isn't as if it's hard


That's the American spirit, mon ami. Excelsior.


----------



## Dr.G.

The end of an era. 

(CNN) - Frank Lautenberg, the New Jersey Democrat who has served five terms in the U.S. Senate since 1982, will not seek re-election next year when his term expires, the senator said in a statement Thursday. 

Lautenberg is the last remaining veteran of World War II to serve in the Senate and was a member of the United States Army Signal Corps from 1942-1946


----------



## iMouse

Dr.G. said:


> Lautenberg is the last remaining veteran of World War II to serve in the Senate, and was a member of the United States Army Signal Corps from 1942-1946


I wonder if he ever bumped into the "code talkers"?

That's quite the story.


----------



## Dr.G.

iMouse said:


> I wonder if he ever bumped into the "code talkers"?
> 
> That's quite the story.


Very true, iMouse. Did you see the movie "Windtalkers"?


----------



## iMouse

Dr.G. said:


> Very true, iMouse. Did you see the movie "Windtalkers"?


No, sadly.

I heard about it, and will eventually get to it, when I retire. 

I am intrigued with their "body-guard", wherever they went in the field.

Some say his job was to protect, and if necessary kill the code-talker to prevent capture.


----------



## Dr.G.

iMouse said:


> No, sadly.
> 
> I heard about it, and will eventually get to it, when I retire.
> 
> I am intrigued with their "body-guard", wherever they went in the field.
> 
> Some say his job was to protect, and if necessary kill the code-talker to prevent capture.


Yes, at least that is what the movie portrayed. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Brilliant.

Obama Releases ‘Waves’ of Illegal Aliens From Holding Centers



> _The federal government released groups of illegal immigrants from custody across the country Monday at the same time the White House was making its case that impending budget cuts would harm efforts to protect the border and enforce federal immigration laws.​_


On one hand, Obama's sewing FUD, on the other he's buying votes.

Complete article here.


----------



## groovetube

U.S. dairy industry petitions FDA to approve aspartame as hidden, unlabeled additive in milk, yogurt, eggnog and cream

One good example of probably millions of why this whole concept of letting corporations run governments and letting the people decide with their wallets is one big HUGE fail.


----------



## FeXL

Bob Woodward pursues the sequestration story & gets warnings from White House.

BOB WOODWARD: A 'Very Senior' White House Person Warned Me I'd 'Regret' What I'm Doing



> Bob Woodward said this evening on CNN that a "very senior person" at the White House warned him in an email that he would "regret doing this," the same day he has continued to slam President Barack Obama over the looming forced cuts known as the sequester.


Must be more of that "transparency" thing showing...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Bob Woodward pursues the sequestration story & gets warnings from White House.
> 
> BOB WOODWARD: A 'Very Senior' White House Person Warned Me I'd 'Regret' What I'm Doing
> 
> Must be more of that "transparency" thing showing...


The Obama Regime expects that its partners in the media take their lead from the president. Is that too much to ask?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Bob Woodward pursues the sequestration story & gets warnings from White House.
> 
> BOB WOODWARD: A 'Very Senior' White House Person Warned Me I'd 'Regret' What I'm Doing
> 
> 
> 
> Must be more of that "transparency" thing showing...


The corporate/bankster masters have had an ironclad lock on the media since the beginning of the Bush II admin. As predicted no real changes with Obushma gang. At this point it's been going on for so long that they consider it their divine right.

At least partially related; At first blush the chosen ones chosen replacement for Geitner appears to have set the bar even deeper underground than during the Bush II era.


----------



## iMouse

Today's Doonesbury.


----------



## SINC

^

That is not only so correct, but hilarious iMouse. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> ^
> 
> That is not only so correct, but hilarious iMouse. :clap:


SINC, it is only partially correct. There are only 143 million Americans working today--same as in 2005, with an increased population in 2013. Obama's stimulus certainly saved many government jobs, but by sucking a trillion dollars out of the economy caused the loss of many others.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> by sucking a trillion dollars out of the economy


Wait; are you suggesting that people who get paid to do work for the government just burn the money or something? Why would money paid to government employees suddenly leave the economy?


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Wait; are you suggesting that people who get paid to do work for the government just burn the money or something? Why would money paid to government employees suddenly leave the economy?


I've seen so many incorrect suggestions it's not worth the bother really.

How anyone can forget the massive job losses from The republican car wreck is anyone's guess. If the republicans are so good at improving the economy faster, why did they crash it to near depression levels in the first place?


----------



## bryanc

If you listen to the Randian autarkists, it's because they weren't conservative enough. Sort of a "gee, that made things worse; let's do it even harder and see if it makes things better" line of thinking.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Wait; are you suggesting that people who get paid to do work for the government just burn the money or something? Why would money paid to government employees suddenly leave the economy?


It doesn't leave the economy, it's just not very effective in spurring economic benefits. 

Because government hiring is not based on any need or economic underpinning, it represents a misallocation of funds. If I need to hire three people to run a restaurant or manufacture something, it is with the expectation that they will produce a product and that the economic activity of sales and production will resonate throughout the economy.

Government work is not generally productive, and the salaries are higher than those necessary to create employment. If you lay off a government worker, there are generally few economic repercussions.

Even accepting the dubious reporting of the number of jobs "created or saved," each Obama "created job" cost roughly $330,000, with no indication as to how permanent such jobs were. Hardly a bargain.



bryanc said:


> If you listen to the Randian autarkists...


Randians don't believe in importing goods?




bryanc said:


> ... it's because they weren't conservative enough. Sort of a "gee, that made things worse; let's do it even harder and see if it makes things better" line of thinking.


Bush was not a Conservative. He was a Republican statist.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> If you listen to the Randian autarkists, it's because they weren't conservative enough. Sort of a "gee, that made things worse; let's do it even harder and see if it makes things better" line of thinking.


Right. It goes far, far, beyond 'insanity is...'


----------



## FeXL

Apparently Woodward wasn't the only one to get the "toe the line or else" treatment.

Ron Fournier: Yeah, I Got the Abusive Treatment From the WH and the Same 'You Will Regret This' Threat



> As editor-in-chief of National Journal, I received several e-mails and telephone calls from this White House official filled with vulgarity, abusive language, and virtually the same phrase that Woodward called a veiled threat.


The ramparts are beginning to crumble...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The ramparts are beginning to crumble...


Reporter Sheryl Attkisson also received abusive messages from the WH for her investigation of the Fast and Furious debacle.

CBS News’ Sharyl Attkisson reviews the many still-unanswered questions about Benghazi terror attack | Twitchy


----------



## i-rui

FeXL said:


> Apparently Woodward wasn't the only one to get the "toe the line or else" treatment.
> 
> Ron Fournier: Yeah, I Got the Abusive Treatment From the WH and the Same 'You Will Regret This' Threat
> 
> 
> The ramparts are beginning to crumble...


did you actually read the "threatening" email that Woodward received?

what an absolute joke. the email exchange can be read here :

Woodward takes heat over White House e-mail flap

shame on Woodward for trying to paint this as any type of threat. I lost a lot for respect for him after this.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> did you actually read the "threatening" email that Woodward received?
> 
> what an absolute joke. the email exchange can be read here :
> 
> Woodward takes heat over White House e-mail flap
> 
> shame on Woodward for trying to paint this as any type of threat. I lost a lot for respect for him after this.


Jon Stewart had quite a piece on that last night. Seems many we're taken by that bit if drama queen stuff.


----------



## FeXL

Older article, but still salient questions...

Colorado Counties Have More Voters Than People



> A review of voter registration data for ten counties in Colorado details a pattern of voter bloat inflating registration rolls to numbers larger than the total voting age population. Using publicly available voter data and comparing it to U.S. Census records reveals the ten counties having a total registration ranging between 104 to 140 percent of the respective populations.
> 
> ...
> 
> All ten counties investigated by Media Trackers reported voter turnout greater than the national average. Nine out of ten also showed voter turnout well above the Colorado average. Mineral and San Juan counties, which have voter registration numbers of 126 percent and 112 percent respectively, had voter turnout of 96 and 83 percent respectively.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> did you actually read the "threatening" email that Woodward received?
> 
> what an absolute joke. the email exchange can be read here :
> 
> Woodward takes heat over White House e-mail flap
> 
> shame on Woodward for trying to paint this as any type of threat. I lost a lot for respect for him after this.


I believe any message from government saying a reporter "will regret" reporting an issue a certain way is a terrible breech. 

What we're seeing now is statist media disowning Woodward because he dissed Obama.


----------



## i-rui

no. what we're seeing now is reasonable and rational people reading the *actual* email exchange and wondering WTF was Woodward going on about?


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> no. what we're seeing now is reasonable and rational people reading the *actual* email exchange and wondering WTF was Woodward going on about?


There's nothing reasonable about telling the media they will "regret" a report.


----------



## i-rui

yes, focus on that one word. Keep your grip tight on it so it can validate your hate.

I'd say something about seeing the forest for the trees, but you'd probably only see Obama.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> yes, focus on that one word. Keep your grip tight on it so it can validate your hate.
> 
> I'd say something about seeing the forest for the trees, but you'd probably only see Obama.


Obama said nothing. It was one of his staffers. And the word "regret" is critical.

And I don't hate Obama. I have merely disagreed with 99% of his policy decisions.


----------



## i-rui

context is everything. not only with how the "r-word" was used by the staffer, but also how Woodward responded to the email.

There was no threat implied, and based on Woodward's response, none was received.


----------



## Macfury

We'll just disagree on the impropriety of the contact then.


----------



## bryanc

Nice short video on income distribution in the U.S. I'd love to see this done WRT Canada; I doubt it's much different.




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

That presentation was a mess. No context. I checked the references and, with the exception of one data point, it all came from lefty blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Nice short video on income distribution in the U.S. I'd love to see this done WRT Canada; I doubt it's much different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Well, it comes right down to the "dreaded socialism" and "Social Darwinism". Survival of the fittest is the way to go ............. too bad that there are no work houses anymore. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHmQT_7a2c]Ebenezer Scrooge "...Are there no prisons?..." - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it comes right down to the "dreaded socialism" and "Social Darwinism". Survival of the fittest is the way to go ............. too bad that there are no work houses anymore. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> Ebenezer Scrooge "...Are there no prisons?..." - YouTube


That's a fib Dr. G, they are all in jurisdictions with "right to work" legislation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> That's a fib Dr. G, they are all in jurisdictions with "right to work" legislation.


Well, no work, no food. Stop the unions cold, and then get the governments out of the pockets of hard working people and let's get back to basics. "The business of America is business", and the business of business is profit.


----------



## Dr.G.

New leader of the GOP: Rand Paul - CNN.com

An interesting article, from someone who is not a Republican. Personally, while I don't agree with many of Rand Paul's policies and beliefs, I respect his honesty to at least say what he means, and even to stand up and discuss it for 13 hours in a filibuster on the floor of the Senate.


----------



## eMacMan

How symbolic can you get?? I guess he was just trying to be honest.



> Oh, dear. This is probably not the symbolism the White House wanted.
> Hours after CIA Director John Brennan took the oath of office—behind closed doors, far away from the press, perhaps befitting his status as America's top spy—the White House took pains to emphasize the symbolism of the ceremony.
> 
> “There's one piece of this that I wanted to note for you,” spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters at their daily briefing. “Director Brennan was sworn in with his hand on an original draft of the Constitution that had George Washington's personal handwriting and annotations on it, dating from 1787.”
> 
> Earnest said Brennan had asked for a document from the National Archives that would demonstrate the U.S. is a nation of laws.
> 
> "Director Brennan told the president that he made the request to the archives because he wanted to reaffirm his commitment to the rule of law as he took the oath of office as director of the CIA,” Earnest said.
> 
> The Constitution itself went into effect in 1789. But troublemaking blogger Marcy Wheeler points out that what was missing from the Constitution in 1787 is also quite symbolic: The Bill of Rights, which did not officially go into effect until December 1791 after ratification by states. (Caution: Marcy's post has some strong language.)
> 
> That means: No freedom of speech and of the press, no right to bear arms, no Fourth Amendment ban on “unreasonable searches and seizures,” and no right to a jury trial.
> How ... symbolic?


Brennan takes oath on draft Constitution

John Brennan Sworn in as CIA Director Using Constitution Lacking Bill of Rights | emptywheel


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> How symbolic can you get?? I guess he was just trying to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> Brennan takes oath on draft Constitution
> 
> John Brennan Sworn in as CIA Director Using Constitution Lacking Bill of Rights | emptywheel


Very symbolic, and not in a good way.


----------



## bryanc

Wow. The BBC is reporting on newly declassified tapes that Nixon intentionally sabotaged peace talks that would've ended the VietNam conflict 5 years earlier, on the grounds that he felt the war was good for his political campaign. That cost 22,000 American lives, and an unknown but certainly much larger number of Vietnamese lives.

And I am forced to believe that the level of cynicism required to succeed in American Presidential Politics has only increased since 1968.


----------



## eMacMan

bryanc said:


> Wow. The BBC is reporting on newly declassified tapes that Nixon intentionally sabotaged peace talks that would've ended the VietNam conflict 5 years earlier, on the grounds that he felt the war was good for his political campaign. That cost 22,000 American lives, and an unknown but certainly much larger number of Vietnamese lives.
> 
> And I am forced to believe that the level of cynicism required to succeed in American Presidential Politics has only increased since 1968.


The only surprising thing about that is that it took this long to get official confirmation.

Hopefully similar official revelations about 9/11, The anti-patriot act and the Iraq massacres will not have to wait until 2043.


----------



## iMouse

That is a bit of a stretch, but plausible.

Did no one in power read/see Paths of Glory???


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Wow. The BBC is reporting on newly declassified tapes that Nixon intentionally sabotaged peace talks that would've ended the VietNam conflict 5 years earlier, on the grounds that he felt the war was good for his political campaign. That cost 22,000 American lives, and an unknown but certainly much larger number of Vietnamese lives.
> 
> And I am forced to believe that the level of cynicism required to succeed in American Presidential Politics has only increased since 1968.


Amazing, and truly shocking. I vividly recall how America was coming apart at the seams, especially after the shooting of Bobby Kennedy. While I was a pledged support of Gene McCarthy, I felt that Bobby was the only person at the time who could have ended the war in Vietnam by the end of 1969.


----------



## Dr.G.

North Korea exposes life in the USA on MSN Video

Luckily, we live in Canada ............. where there are lots of birds and lots of snow for coffee and soup.

Sadly, many North Koreans might find this a good situation compared to what they are experiencing.


----------



## OldeBullDust

I would like to know why we don't have Yummy Hot Snow Coffee - are the Conservatives holding out on the good stuff?


----------



## Aurora

and tents. Where's my tent?


----------



## Dr.G.

OldeBullDust said:


> I would like to know why we don't have Yummy Hot Snow Coffee - are the Conservatives holding out on the good stuff?


We get yummy hot snow coffee here in St.John's, and cold and yummy yellow lemonade as well. XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

Aurora said:


> and tents. Where's my tent?


I think that they ran out, Aurora. Still, be sure to get your North Korean cake.


----------



## iMouse

Aurora said:


> and tents. Where's my tent?


Tents? *Tents!!* Sheer luxury I say. tptptptp





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Keystone XL picks up Senate backing



> The Senate on Friday voted 62-37 to approve the proposed Keystone XL oil sands pipeline in an amendment to Senate budget.
> 
> ...
> 
> "It puts the Senate on record in support of the Keystone pipeline project. And that's just appropriate," Hoeven said. "The Department of State has done four environmental impact statements over the last five years — four — and said there are no significant environmental impacts. And it's time that we in the Senate stepped up with the American people."


----------



## FeXL

Never heard of this guy, don't know anything about him. Ran across the link in a totally random fashion.

In light of the bank closures in Cyprus, however, I found the warning...interesting.

BANK MANAGER VERIFIES CASH WITH DRAWL LIMITS AND REDUCED HOURS COMING TO US BANKS WITHIN 60 DAYS



> Just received a call from a highly agitated bank manager who stated that within 60 days, banks will be greatly reducing their hours, days of operation, amount of withdrawals and a requirement to fill out "paperwork" if the amount is questioned by bank officials.


Note: Just read his "About Steve", sounds a <bit>  off Broadway...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Never heard of this guy, don't know anything about him. Ran across the link in a totally random fashion.
> 
> In light of the bank closures in Cyprus, however, I found the warning...interesting.
> 
> BANK MANAGER VERIFIES CASH WITH DRAWL LIMITS AND REDUCED HOURS COMING TO US BANKS WITHIN 60 DAYS
> 
> 
> 
> Note: Just read his "About Steve", sounds a <bit>  off Broadway...


If it were not for the _ongoing_ Cyprus fiasco I would not be paying a lot of attention. 

Maybe we all need to have enough cash to last us a few months just in case the Banksters do chose to attempt a massive raid on our bank accounts.


----------



## iMouse

Copper ingots are a good hedge against this.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Amazing, and truly shocking. I vividly recall how America was coming apart at the seams, especially after the shooting of Bobby Kennedy. While I was a pledged support of Gene McCarthy, I felt that Bobby was the only person at the time who could have ended the war in Vietnam by the end of 1969.


Not that shocking if you've read Christopher Hitchen's *The Trial of Henry Kissinger*...

Never could understand how Hitchen's could make such a radical about-face on U.S. government's capacity to conduct evil foreign policy / war, when he endorsed Bush's invasion of Iraq....


----------



## bryanc

*Deficit Hawkman to the Rescue!*

The Republicans certainly need a superhero now; loved the line about Ayn Rand's stockings


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The Republicans certainly need a superhero now; loved the line about Ayn Rand's stockings


That's pretty stupidly done, even for Fiore.


----------



## bryanc

I recently had a conversation with an american colleague of mine, and we came to the conclusion that, while the schadenfreude we enjoy as we watch the Republicans implode is nice, this leaves the US with an even more desperately dysfunctional political system than ever. As the Republicans have alienated everyone to the left of Karl Rove, and the lunatic fundamentalists howl that they lost because their candidate wasn't conservative *enough*, that leaves Obama and the Democrats without any rational counterbalance. Since the Republicans have gone completely insane, Obama can keep his drones bombing anyone he wants, continue the Drug War, keep padding the pockets of the Banksters, Big Pharma, the Oil Industry the MIC, and the Prison Industry, and keep ignoring the core principles of levelling the playing feild for the disenfranchised, protecting Civil Liberties, building and maintaining physical and social infrastructure, etc. because there is no one else to vote for.

What will it take for the Republicans to re-invent themselves?


----------



## Macfury

The country club Republicans--i.e., those most like the Democrats--are imploding. 

The Dems are _their own_ counterbalance. Their misguided economic policies are starting to bite them in the ass.


----------



## iMouse

bryanc said:


> What will it take for the Republicans to re-invent themselves?


Becoming Democrats, as from your description, Obama has Republicanism already nicely covered. 

Who's Left, when everybody's Right?

That's correct, "*Noooobody*!" _- Mel Lastman_


----------



## eMacMan

bryanc said:


> The Republicans certainly need a superhero now; loved the line about Ayn Rand's stockings


Let's see the Republirats certainly are promoting tax-cuts for the Super Rich, they certainly seem out to get Medicare and Social Security (both of which are sufficiently funded if Congress would stop diverting the funds in other directions). There is no way they or the Demobumblers are going to cut anything that relates to the MIC. Like Reagun they would have us believe that the following this formula will magically balance the budget despite the evidence of 24 years under Raygun, Bush 1, Bush 2 and Bush 3.

Other than re-stating the obvious to the oblivious I really don't see why MF has an issue here.


----------



## bryanc

Yes, it's certainly true that all the sane Republicans have a (D) beside their names.

So I guess the question is, which will happen first, the GOP completes it's nervous breakdown, sheds it's crazy-faction, and re-establishes itself as a party with sane candidates and rational policies, or will the Democrats schism into a modern right wing party with Obama and his cronies, and a modern liberal/progressive party that appeals to the left of centre?


----------



## bryanc

eMacMan said:


> I really don't see why MF has an issue here.


Pulitzer prize winning editorial cartoonists like Fioré and Trudeau are anathemas to the radical right; it's like Golem's reaction to anything made by the Elves.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> So I guess the question is, which will happen first, the GOP completes it's nervous breakdown, sheds it's crazy-faction, and re-establishes itself as a party with sane candidates and rational policies, or will the Democrats schism into a modern right wing party with Obama and his cronies, and a modern liberal/progressive party that appeals to the left of centre?


The Republican party sheds itself of crazy-ass liberal policies instead.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> The Republican party sheds itself of crazy-ass liberal policies instead.


Yes, we understand that you think getting rid of government would give rise to a utopia... like Somalia. But back here in the real world we have to deal with reality, and the reality is that all countries need governments and all individuals have to accept some limitations on their freedoms in order for civilization to work.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Yes, we understand that you think getting rid of government would give rise to a utopia... like Somalia. But back here in the real world we have to deal with reality, and the reality is that all countries need governments and all individuals have to accept some limitations on their freedoms in order for civilization to work.


Your crude misinterpretation of my ideas is amusing.

In the real world, liberal ideas are leading to situations like that of Spain, Greece and Cypress. With the current U.S. emphasis on borrowing money it cannot afford to pay back, and printing money to devalue its currency, it's on the same road.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Your crude misinterpretation of my ideas is amusing.
> 
> In the real world, liberal ideas are leading to situations like that of Spain, Greece and Cypress. With the current U.S. emphasis on borrowing money it cannot afford to pay back, and printing money to devalue its currency, it's on the same road.


Actually the IMF forced Cyprus banks to "invest" in Greek debt bonds. The losses were of course entirely predictable, the crime is that customers are being looted for the sake of the big banksters. Of course this fraud will continue to work its way up the food chain eventually dragging supposedly safe countries banks into the vortex.


----------



## bryanc

Strangely, the liberal democracies the rightwing-nuts like to point at and say "see! look! Baaad!" are rarely very liberal at all. If you look at the Scandinavian countries, all very socialist by rightwing-nut standards, they seem to be doing quite well economically and by any other measure.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## bryanc

That's a stupid, poorly researched, unfunny cartoon! Most Koreans have black hair! </MacFury>


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Actually the IMF forced Cyprus banks to "invest" in Greek debt bonds. The losses were of course entirely predictable, the crime is that customers are being looted for the sake of the big banksters. Of course this fraud will continue to work its way up the food chain eventually dragging supposedly safe countries banks into the vortex.


Seems that most of the big accounts, those over the $100,000 amount have been quietly withdrawn through a back door branch in Russia, even as the banks themselves remained closed and negotiations with the IMF continued.

This should leave stock and bond holders completely SOL.

Now that the elite know they can bail, perhaps we can expect this sort of madness to spread.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Seems that most of the big accounts, those over the $100,000 amount have been quietly withdrawn through a back door branch in Russia, even as the banks themselves remained closed and negotiations with the IMF continued.


Good for them! This is undisguised robbery.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Good for them! This is undisguised robbery.


With laundered money ...................... :clap::clap::clap::greedy:


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> With laundered money ...................... :clap::clap::clap::greedy:


freedom fighters standing up for the russian mob?

It starts to get interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> freedom fighters standing up for the russian mob?
> 
> It starts to get interesting.


Not too many with the courage to stand up to the Russian Mafia.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Not too many with the courage to stand up to the Russian Mafia.


ah, hence the standing up _*for*_.

Makes sense


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ah, hence the standing up _*for*_.
> 
> Makes sense


True. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## bryanc

*The Constitution: TL;DR.*

Apparently the law makers in N.C. have trouble with reading comprehension.

From the proposed bill.


> SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
> 
> SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Apparently the law makers in N.C. have trouble with reading comprehension.
> 
> From the proposed bill.


Apparently you have trouble understanding the U.S. Constitution.. the NC lawmakers are correct. 

The Establishment Clause, which prohibits Congress from establishing a national religion, was written, in part, to ensure that several states that had established official religions would not have their decision overthrown by Congress. 

While establishing a state religion may be a regrettable idea, the Constitution does not currently prohibit it.


----------



## bryanc

I suppose if you don't accept federal law superceeds state law, you don't accept the constitution prevents individual states from establishing a religion.


----------



## FeXL

Tangentially related to US politics, but I didn't want to start a new thread. Australia/China cutting out the middle man (American Greenback) in move to Direct Currency Convertibility.

Thanks, World Reserve Currency, But No Thanks: Australia And China To Enable Direct Currency Convertibility



> Over the weekend, Australia appears to have come to the same conclusion, with the Australian reporting that the land down under is set to say goodbye to the world's "reserve currency" in its trade dealings with the world's biggest marginal economic power, China, *and will enable the direct convertibility of the Australian dollar into Chinese yuan, without US Dollar intermediation,* in the process "slashing costs for thousands of business" and also confirming speculation that China is fully intent on, little by little, chipping away at the dollar's reserve currency status until one day it no longer is.


Bold from the link.

Found the graph at the bottom of the article showing reserve currencies of the past 600 years interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Apparently you have trouble understanding the U.S. Constitution.. the NC lawmakers are correct.
> 
> The Establishment Clause, which prohibits Congress from establishing a national religion, was written, in part, to ensure that several states that had established official religions would not have their decision overthrown by Congress.
> 
> While establishing a state religion may be a regrettable idea, the Constitution does not currently prohibit it.


Actually, it is the "free exercise" clause that does this, Macfury. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

I would agree with you that this is a "regrettable idea", but one that might not be declared unconstitutional. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> I suppose if you don't accept federal law superceeds state law, you don't accept the constitution prevents individual states from establishing a religion.


The 10th Amendment will be the sticking point. Still, if the state wants to promote one religion over other religions, there are enough past ruling against these sorts of things that will provide legal precedent to overturn this law. Again, we shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I suppose if you don't accept federal law superceeds state law, you don't accept the constitution prevents individual states from establishing a religion.


Federal law does not supercede state law. The Constitution points out which powers are given to the federal government and which are given to states. Look at the history of the Exclusion Clause and its intent you will see I'm correct.

Such a decision may be struck down on other grounds, but the Constitution supports it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Federal law does not supercede state law. The Constitution points out which powers are given to the federal government and which are given to states. Look at the history of the Exclusion Clause and its intent you will see I'm correct.
> 
> Such a decision may be struck down on other grounds, but the Constitution supports it.


You are correct here, Macfury. Past legal precedents from previous Supreme Court rulings might strike down this law, but for now, it is constitutional until proven not ....... just like I have the right to freely swing my arm .... until I reach the point of your nose. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, it is the "free exercise" clause that does this, Macfury. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."


Dr. G., as I understand it, The Establishment Clause is the first half of the sentence, and the Free Exercise clause the second.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., as I understand it, The Establishment Clause is the first half of the sentence, and the Free Exercise clause the second.


That is correct, Macfury. The Establishment Clause limits the federal government from establishing a church/religion/etc, and the Free Exercise clause provides for the "free exercise" of religious beliefs.


----------



## FeXL

President of a left leaning college goes golfing with a right leaning potential benefactor. The punchline follows...

Bowdoin College: Come For The "Diversity"; Stay For The Liberal Cocooning



> So the college president apparently went on to tell the frosh that while Bowdoin leaned to the left they should respect diversity of ideas of evil, racist, reichwingers like "the donor". The problem is that word leaked back to "the donor" that he was being used as a strawman for Bowdoin to pat itself on the back for its supposed tolerance and open-mindedness with respect to opposing views while simultaneously castigating them.


Karma can carry quite a bite...


----------



## bryanc

*The lunatics are taking over the asylum.*

1 in 4 American's think Obama may be the antichrist.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> 1 in 4 American's think Obama may be the antichrist.


"This poll sounds scary – but here are two consolations. First, it shows three-quarters of Americans don't think that Obama is the antichrist, and second, in the land of Family Guy, it is likely that quite a proportion of the remaining 25% were having a laugh at the pollsters."


----------



## MacGuiver

bryanc said:


> 1 in 4 American's think Obama may be the antichrist.


He does bear an uncanny resemblance to the prince of darkness


----------



## Macfury

I thought that the Anti-Christ was to bring about a brief reign of prosperity out of chaos.

He's achieved the second part, but not the first.

Perhaps we can simply agree that his economic policies are Sick, Sick, Sick.


----------



## MacGuiver

As much as I think Obama is pawn in the war against God, he's far outdone in the evil department by other world leaders past and present. A chubby Korean comes to mind.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I thought that the Anti-Christ was to bring about a brief reign of prosperity out of chaos.
> 
> He's achieved the second part, but not the first.
> 
> Perhaps we can simply agree that his economic policies are Sick, Sick, Sick.


To be fair W dedicated himself to creating the Chaos. BO has but slavishly stayed the course. Perhaps that is because like Bush, he is merely a puppet of the Anti-Christ.

As long as American voters continue to think Republirats and Dumblebums are different, there is little hope for America.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> As much as I think Obama is pawn in the war against God, he's far outdone in the evil department by other world leaders past and present. A chubby Korean comes to mind.


Hey, Obama preys (on working Americans) daily!


----------



## FeXL

That provides a perfect segue for this...


----------



## bryanc

FeXL said:


> That provides a perfect segue for this...


ok... that _is_ funney.


----------



## bryanc

*Seems the US Supreme Court agrees with me.*

Regarding the establishment clause...


> The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the First Amendment, which (among other things) prohibits the government from establishing an official religion, also applies to the states.


----------



## groovetube

FeXL said:


> That provides a perfect segue for this...


Hilarious cartoon



eMacMan said:


> To be fair W dedicated himself to creating the Chaos. BO has but slavishly stayed the course. Perhaps that is because like Bush, he is merely a puppet of the Anti-Christ.
> 
> As long as American voters continue to think Republirats and Dumblebums are different, there is little hope for America.


shhh. They need to think it was -all- Obama's fault. Even though the catastrophe occurred before his presidency, and of course let's not forget about lying to the American people about the Iraq war, and the resulting massive amount of money spent on that not to mention thousands of American lives lost. But that wasn't 'chaos'. But it certainly was, _catastrophic_.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Regarding the establishment clause...


_Everson v. Board of Education_ doesn't do what the article claims it does. It only set a precedent in which the Supreme Court over-rode state's rights regarding religion in one case involving reimbursement for busing--and it was only a 5-4 decision. As I said earlier, the states still maintain the right to establish a religion, while the Supreme Court maintains it has the power to over-rule them on a case-by-case basis.


----------



## CubaMark

MacGuiver said:


> He does bear an uncanny resemblance to the prince of darkness


Yeah - tell me THAT wasn't intentional...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Yeah - tell me THAT wasn't intentional...


If the actor portraying the Devil had been white, people would say they had discriminated against more swarthy actors.


----------



## Dr.G.

A friend of mine, who is British with a wife from France, and who both are living in Georgia these days, sent this to me.


JFK'S Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, was in France in the early 60's when De Gaulle decided to pull out of NATO. De Gaulle said he wanted all of the US military out of France as soon as possible.

Rusk responded, "Does that include all those who are buried here?"

You could have heard a pin drop


A Royal Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, the English learn only English. He then asked, "Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?" 

Without hesitating, the British Admiral replied, "Maybe it's because the Brit's, Canadians, Aussie's and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German."

You could have heard a pin drop.



Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport from his carry on. 

"You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.

Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously. 

"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."

The Englishman said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."

"Impossible! You English always have to show your passports on arrival in France!"

The English senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, "Well, when I came ashore at Gold Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to."

You could have heard a pin drop.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> If the actor portraying the Devil had been white, people would say they had discriminated against more swarthy actors.


I know that you're not *that* obtuse. Very disingenuous of you.


----------



## Dr.G.

Finally!!! At least now the issue may be discussed in the Senate. How they vote shall be seen, but at least there can be a free and open debate on the matter.

"The Senate voted 68 to 31 to proceed to debate on legislation to curb gun violence, beginning what observers expect to be weeks of argument on the most consequential congressional action on firearm regulations since the 1990s.

Sixteen Republicans joined with 52 Democrats to approve a motion to proceed. Two Democrats joined with 29 Republicans to oppose the motion."

Senate opens debate on gun bill


----------



## i-rui

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...-at-guantanamo-bay.html?src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB

OP-ED by a prisoner from gitmo. Really powerful stuff.


----------



## Dr.G.

I think that all but those avid anti-Pres. Obama persons will contend that this time the president was on the right side of this issue. MIchael Moore, who I don't support in everything he says, was correct when he said on CNN that some Democratic senators were "wimps".


Washington (CNN) -- In a major defeat for supporters of tougher gun laws, the U.S. Senate on Wednesday defeated a compromise plan to expand background checks on firearms sales as well as a proposal to ban some semi-automatic weapons modeled after military assault weapons.

The votes were on a series of amendments to a broad package of gun laws pushed by President Barack Obama and Democratic leaders in the aftermath of the Newtown school massacre in December.

However, fierce opposition by the powerful National Rifle Association led a backlash by conservative Republicans and a few Democrats from pro-gun states that doomed key proposals in the gun package, even after they had been watered down to try to satisfy opponents.

After the votes, Obama angrily criticized the NRA and senators who voted against the expanded background checks for rejecting a compromise he said was supported by a strong majority of Americans.

"Instead of supporting this compromise, the gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the bill," Obama told White House reporters.

Noting polls that showed 90% support for such a measure, Obama called it a "pretty shameful day for Washington" and wondered of Congress: "Who are we here to represent?"

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Oops .............. "missed it by that much". How does one send Harvard profs back to school???

"Two Harvard economists whose work is the ideological basis of those advocating tough government austerity measures acknowledged Wednesday that their key study justifying lower government debt loads contained an important mathematical error.

In 2010, Harvard professors Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff published a report, titled "Public Debt Overhangs: Advanced-Economy Episodes Since 1800," which attempted to compile hundreds of years worth of data from advanced economies, to see what relationship, if any, exists between government debt loads and economic output."

Key pro-austerity study based on incorrect math - Business - CBC News

Goldwater Missed it by That Much - YouTube


----------



## Dr.G.

Drum roll please, as we await the inevitable Pres. Obama bashing over gun control, over the debt, over his presidency, over his .......................

We shall see.


----------



## winwintoo

WTH!

Everybody needs a gun. If everybody had a gun, Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened? WTH,

So now should everybody have a pressure cooker full of nails? WTH!

They should all have a Baggie full of Ricin? WTH!

What about a boatload of fertilizer? WTH!

Good grief. It seems that our neighbor to the south is imploding.

The other day I had to take a taxi to the mall. The driver was a new Canadian. I asked him where he was from etc. and also why he came to Canada instead of the US or anywhere else in the world. 

He replied that he came here because he wanted to feel safe. He saw the US as a place as unsafe as the country he was leaving behind.


----------



## Dr.G.

winwintoo said:


> WTH!
> 
> Everybody needs a gun. If everybody had a gun, Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened? WTH,
> 
> So now should everybody have a pressure cooker full of nails? WTH!
> 
> They should all have a Baggie full of Ricin? WTH!
> 
> What about a boatload of fertilizer? WTH!
> 
> Good grief. It seems that our neighbor to the south is imploding.
> 
> The other day I had to take a taxi to the mall. The driver was a new Canadian. I asked him where he was from etc. and also why he came to Canada instead of the US or anywhere else in the world.
> 
> He replied that he came here because he wanted to feel safe. He saw the US as a place as unsafe as the country he was leaving behind.


Interesting. I know that I came here for the employment back in 1977, and have been here ever since. I stayed for what Canada had to offer and for what I could offer Canada. As well, I stayed for the clean air. Paix, mon amie.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Matrix Broke This Week and an actual Yemeni was Allowed to Testify about Drones in the Senate*

_“Just six days ago, my village was struck by a drone, in an attack that terrified thousands of simple, poor farmers,” Farea Al-Muslimi told the Senate Judiciary Committee in a hearing on the legality of the drone war. “The drone strike and its impact tore my heart, much as the tragic bombings in Boston last week tore your hearts and also mine.”

“What radicals had previously failed to achieve in my village,” al-Muslimi said, “one drone strike accomplished in an instant: there is now an intense anger and growing hatred of America,” adding that he has ”seen Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula use US strikes to promote its agenda and try to recruit more terrorists.”_​




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






(Films for Action)


----------



## FeXL

Officials found guilty in Obama, Clinton ballot petition fraud



> A jury in South Bend, Indiana has found that fraud put President Obama and Hillary Clinton on the presidential primary ballot in Indiana in the 2008 election. Two Democratic political operatives were convicted Thursday night in the illegal scheme after only three hours of deliberations. They were found guilty on all counts.


Unfortunately, the law does not allow for BO's removal... beejacon


----------



## iMouse

And that's a good thing Martha, otherwise each party would have a mole(s) in the others camp, to sabotage the results in court.

And was the crime sufficient to effect the results?


----------



## CubaMark

*Howabout we take a moment for a bit of American political levity?*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






President Barack Obama In Spoof Video As Daniel Day Lewis In Steven Spielberg Film - Huffington Post


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Howabout we take a moment for a bit of American political levity?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Barack Obama In Spoof Video As Daniel Day Lewis In Steven Spielberg Film - Huffington Post


I see another Oscar for DDL ................... or Pres. Obama. :clap::clap:


----------



## groovetube

Saw this on the Facebook. SHould make a lot of people laugh, (and turn a couple stomachs...)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Howabout we take a moment for a bit of American political levity?*


There should have been just a hint of Daniel Day Lewis in Obama's appearance to pull it off.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There should have been just a hint of Daniel Day Lewis in Obama's appearance to pull it off.


Pres. Obama is a scholar and a politician .............. not an actor. Guess there is no Oscar in the cards for him.


----------



## iMouse

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama is a scholar and a politician .............. not an actor.
> 
> Guess there is no Oscar in the cards for him.


Don't fret Marc. That's just Macfury being Macfury.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama is a scholar and a politician .............. not an actor. Guess there is no Oscar in the cards for him.


It's not Obama's fault. It's the director of the skit who missed the opportunity.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's not Obama's fault. It's the director of the skit who missed the opportunity.


Well, then no Oscar for directing either. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's not Obama's fault. It's the director of the skit who missed the opportunity.


We should produce a movie together ............ or a TV show ............ on the lines of "Bridget loves Bernie". We could call it "The Liberal and the Libertarian". Interested?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We should produce a movie together ............ or a TV show ............ on the lines of "Bridget loves Bernie". We could call it "The Liberal and the Libertarian". Interested?


How would we raise our children, Dr. G?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How would we raise our children, Dr. G?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWtyc0-yvk]Bridget Loves Bernie - Show Open - YouTube[/ame]

Children??? No need for children. Still, if there were children involved we could raise them as moderate independents .................. thus keeping the family balance.


----------



## Macfury

"I think we have a problem."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> "I think we have a problem."


No we don't. Picture the opening scene of the movie ................ a great crowd being moved to cheers by the speaker, who is too far away to make out who he/she might be, but whatever this person is saying the crowd is loving it. In the back of the crowd are two people, a man and a woman, who are straining to hear what is being said. They each look at each other and at the same moment say "Are you able to make out what is being said?" Then they look into each others eyes ................. and the rest they say, is cinamatic history. It will be like the combination of "The Way we Were" and "Casablanca". 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju29bXJDHDk]The way we were - Barbra Streisand (incl. lyrics) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEWaqUVac3M]Here's Looking At You, Kid - Casablanca (5/6) Movie CLIP (1942) HD - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDhGS4EJS8M]The end of the movie Casablanca - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bryanc

*If only...*


----------



## FeXL

Is that violins I hear playing in the background?


----------



## Macfury

I suspect that this passes for an erotic fantasy for many on the left.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, then no Oscar for directing either. Paix, mon ami.


I heard that director is pretty hack.


----------



## bryanc

It's nice that Bush is back in the news these days; while there's no shortage of things to criticize about Obama's administration, it's nothing like the salad days of Bush II...


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> It's nice that Bush is back in the news these days; while there's no shortage of things to criticize about Obama's administration, it's nothing like the salad days of Bush II...


Agreed. Most people were far better off during Bush II's two terms of office.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Most people were far better off during Bush II's two terms of office.


Obama's decisive victory in the last election suggests most Americans correctly blame Bush's policies for their current troubles, and believe Obama is doing a better job of undoing the damage Bush did than Romney (who advocated returning to Bush's policies) would have.

While I'm not a big fan of Obama, he's not having much trouble looking less bad than the alternative.


----------



## i-rui

I was happy to see that Obama is taking another shot at closing Gitmo. Hopefully He'll actually do it this time.


----------



## eMacMan

i-rui said:


> I was happy to see that Obama is taking another shot at closing Gitmo. Hopefully He'll actually do it this time.


Coulda and shoulda been done 12 years ago.


----------



## i-rui

Of course, I agree. But better late than never.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Obama's decisive victory in the last election suggests most Americans correctly blame Bush's policies for their current troubles, and believe Obama is doing a better job of undoing the damage Bush did than Romney (who advocated returning to Bush's policies) would have.
> 
> While I'm not a big fan of Obama, he's not having much trouble looking less bad than the alternative.


I believe most Americans were simply afraid to switch horses in a confusing economy made worse by Obama.


----------



## iMouse

Mmmmm, Boston police confirm that 3 more suspects are in F.B.I. custody.


----------



## groovetube

Daily Kos: Tea Party Legislator Suggests Man Who Lost Both Legs in Boston Bombings Wasn't Really Injured

I was thinking this had to be a joke, but humour like that, well I'm not sure even the right is that low.


----------



## iMouse

So, either they are pulling a "Capt. Dan" with the images, or the government paid him big bucks to cut his legs off, above the knee. Or perhaps he already lost his legs in some foreign prior-government adventure, and he is being paid to 'pretend', after being in "make-up".

And this from an anus-hole that probably would not be able to recognize shock if it him him in the face. 

Vital signs have to be taken before that determination can be made.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> So, either they are pulling a "Capt. Dan" with the images, or the government paid him big bucks to cut his legs off, above the knee. Or perhaps he already lost his legs in some foreign prior-government adventure, and he is being paid to 'pretend', after being in "make-up".
> 
> And this from an anus-hole that probably would not be able to recognize shock if it him him in the face.
> 
> Vital signs have to be taken before that determination can be made.


I listened to the segment of the broadcast. She only said it seemed surreal because he wasn't screaming. She did not say it never happened. I guess nobody here bothered to check the program before reporting on it.


----------



## groovetube

iMouse said:


> So, either they are pulling a "Capt. Dan" with the images, or the government paid him big bucks to cut his legs off, above the knee. Or perhaps he already lost his legs in some foreign prior-government adventure, and he is being paid to 'pretend', after being in "make-up".
> 
> And this from an anus-hole that probably would not be able to recognize shock if it him him in the face.
> 
> Vital signs have to be taken before that determination can be made.


actually, her.

It's really hard to believe anyone could be this stupid, even to go on radio and very clearly again make the allegation he may not have been actually hurt.

I just saw a couple hard core right wingers on twitter try to make like that wasn't what she meant. Typical. Not sure how clearer it could be.

Liars.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I listened to the segment of the broadcast. She only said it seemed surreal because he wasn't screaming. She did not say it never happened. I guess nobody here bothered to check the program before reporting on it.


From the link above:

_Speaking on a sports radio show in Boston yesterday morning, Tremblay seemed to temper her suspicions a bit. But just a bit. She said she'd like to make it up to him, but it seemed more likely she just wanted to get a peek under the sheet to make sure his legs were gone:

*"I would love to go and visit Jeff. I'd like to go and apologize to him ... if he was hurt"*_​
That sounds a bit less surreal and a lot more _f-ing wingnut_.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> From the link above:
> 
> _Speaking on a sports radio show in Boston yesterday morning, Tremblay seemed to temper her suspicions a bit. But just a bit. She said she'd like to make it up to him, but it seemed more likely she just wanted to get a peek under the sheet to make sure his legs were gone:
> 
> *"I would love to go and visit Jeff. I'd like to go and apologize to him ... if he was hurt"*_​
> That sounds a bit less surreal and a lot more _f-ing wingnut_.


oh jeez, another one. Unbelievable! But, hardly surprising...

All you have to do is listen to the whole radio recording, all the way to the end and it's clear to anyone. Who's honest anyway.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> From the link above:
> 
> _Speaking on a sports radio show in Boston yesterday morning, Tremblay seemed to temper her suspicions a bit. But just a bit. She said she'd like to make it up to him, but it seemed more likely she just wanted to get a peek under the sheet to make sure his legs were gone:
> 
> *"I would love to go and visit Jeff. I'd like to go and apologize to him ... if he was hurt"*_​
> That sounds a bit less surreal and a lot more _f-ing wingnut_.


She's one confused lady, no doubt, but if you listen to the full item, the reasoning is along the line that some of the footage has been doctored for maximum impact. She says she simply does not know.

Does her commentary cause one to question her judgement? Definitely. However, it's still worthwhile to listen to the clip, instead of regurgitating blog comments about it.

This woman happens to be a lowly state representative, one of 400, but you can hear this same sort of nonsense spouted on the national stage in the form of truthers such as six-term federal Democrat Representative Cynthia Ann McKinney who believes "9-11" was an inside job.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi.

Three Big Developments in the Benghazi Investigation

The Benghazi Talking Points

Benghazi Coverup: Clinton Tried End-Run Around Counterterrorism Bureau on Night of Benghazi Attack

Going to make a prediction: If Hillary is as bent on running for President next election as she appears to be, someone above her pay grade is going to get thrown under a bus. Otherwise, it's her...


----------



## FeXL

More yet.

Diplomat: U.S. Special Forces told "you can't go" to Benghazi during attacks

I am stunned at the lack of response by the American people on this...


----------



## groovetube

They gave a big collective meh on being led into one if the most expensive wars based on being lied leading to thousands if Americans dying as well as untold thousands of innocents.

And people expect there to be some kind insurrection over this?

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.


----------



## eMacMan

Hell they allowed the entire bill of rights (except the second) to go down with nary a whimper. They even cheered the storm troopers in the streets of Boston.


----------



## groovetube

The flying monkeys on Fox News are just losing their dung over this.

Jon Stewart the other night did a brilliant mock of them.


----------



## Macfury

I love this tortured syntax. Mainstream media is definitely paying attention to Benghazi,


----------



## Macfury

This made me laugh:

Mark Sanford defeats Elizabeth Colbert Busch - Alex Isenstadt - POLITICO.com

For all the braying about the power of Colbert and Jon Stewart, watching a guy like Sanford trounce Colbert's sister must feel like a pail of cold water has been thrown on you.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> For all the braying about the power of Colbert and Jon Stewart, watching a guy like Sanford trounce Colbert's sister must feel like a pail of cold water has been thrown on you.


Republican wins in profoundly Republican riding. News at 11.


----------



## iMouse

My Sister is also not a Nobel Prize Laureate. LOL


----------



## bryanc

And I'll bet Tiger Woods could beat me at golf.


----------



## groovetube

:lmao: ha ha ha ha. What am I hearing, some guy holding his fist up muttering, 'ya mudda!'.


----------



## Dr.G.

Washington (CNN) – "A new Census Bureau report shows a higher percentage of African-Americans than whites voted in a presidential election for the first time in history last year during the matchup between President Obama and GOP nominee Mitt Romney. 

The report, released Wednesday, found that more than 66% of eligible blacks voted in the presidential contest. Only 64.1% of whites turned out to vote.

This marks the first time since 1968 that blacks turned out at a higher rate the whites."

An interesting statistic, although not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi.

Report: CBS News Bosses Irked by Correspondent's Thorough Benghazi Reporting



> The biggest Benghazi-related story that took place outside of the House Oversight Committee's hearing room today is this item in Politico, regarding CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson. She's the reporter who famously drew White House officials' profane ire over her unapologetic pursuit of the Fast & Furious scandal story; now she's apparently facing searing criticism from another source: Her own bosses. Why? Because she's been covering the Benghazi story too aggressively.


There's a surprise. Finally, a reporter that's doing her job & now she's getting her hands slapped for it. You go, girl...


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Washington (CNN) – "A new Census Bureau report shows a higher percentage of African-Americans than whites voted in a presidential election for the first time in history last year during the matchup between President Obama and GOP nominee Mitt Romney.
> 
> The report, released Wednesday, found that more than 66% of eligible blacks voted in the presidential contest. Only 64.1% of whites turned out to vote.
> 
> This marks the first time since 1968 that blacks turned out at a higher rate the whites."
> 
> An interesting statistic, although not out of the realm of possibility.


Give the crop of crap voters were offered, I would call the turnout amazing.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Give the crop of crap voters were offered, I would call the turnout amazing.


Not sure we agree on this point, eMM.


----------



## Macfury

Even holding a dog, Obama looks like a phoney.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Even holding a dog, Obama looks like a phoney.


Well, as Plato once wrote, "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Since I feel that Pres. Obama is the wise one, that leaves Gov. Romney as ..................... well, you know. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

BBC Apologizes for Benghazi Coverage: Hillary In Trouble, 'Heads Will Roll'



> Mark Mardell, the BBC's North American editor, issued a mea culpa of sorts today after Jonathan Karl at ABC News dropped his bombshell that proves beyond any doubt that the Obama Administration lied about its involvement in editing the CIA's talking points surrounding the September 11 attack on our consulate in Libya.


----------



## CubaMark

Y'know what's funny? Those of you on the Right who continue to bash the Obama regime, when he's proven to be just as bad as any of his predecessors. Those of us on the Left had great hopes - the man talked the talk, but he walked down the same path... maybe its true, that the U.S. ship of state is, like the Titanic, simply impossible to course-correct on anything less than ice-age time scales.

The only thing that *some* of us on the Left see is that the Democrats at least limit some of the excesses that the Republicans would approach if in office. But no-one sees Obama et al as progressive, or even centrist, apart from the wing nuts at Faux News and similar outlets.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Y'know what's funny? Those of you on the Right who continue to bash the Obama regime, when he's proven to be just as bad as any of his predecessors. Those of us on the Left had great hopes - the man talked the talk, but he walked down the same path... maybe its true, that the U.S. ship of state is, like the Titanic, simply impossible to course-correct on anything less than ice-age time scales.
> 
> The only thing that *some* of us on the Left see is that the Democrats at least limit some of the excesses that the Republicans would approach if in office. But no-one sees Obama et al as progressive, or even centrist, apart from the wing nuts at Faux News and similar outlets.


I see him as a left winger and a progressive, but because the ship of state is slow to move, it limits his ability to realize his ambitions. It will take a long tome to correct his mistakes.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> Y'know what's funny? Those of you on the Right who continue to bash the Obama regime, when he's proven to be just as bad as any of his predecessors. Those of us on the Left had great hopes - the man talked the talk, but he walked down the same path... maybe its true, that the U.S. ship of state is, like the Titanic, simply impossible to course-correct on anything less than ice-age time scales.
> 
> The only thing that *some* of us on the Left see is that the Democrats at least limit some of the excesses that the Republicans would approach if in office. But no-one sees Obama et al as progressive, or even centrist, apart from the wing nuts at Faux News and similar outlets.


well put. It's almost as if the right are just mad that Obama hasn't put the pedal to the metal like baby bush to put'er in the ditch again.


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> I see him as a left winger and a progressive, but because* the ship of state is slow to move*, it limits his ability to realize his ambitions. It will take a long tome to correct his mistakes.


Nice analogy. :clap:

The U.S. is not unlike the largest aircraft carrier you could imagine, travelling at flank speed.

And so many are stoking the boilers, to make it harder to turn.


----------



## groovetube

iMouse said:


> Nice analogy. :clap:
> 
> The U.S. is not unlike the largest aircraft carrier you could imagine, travelling at flank speed.
> 
> And so many are stoking the boilers, to make it harder to turn.


It's amazing that the ones who whine that Obama isn't moving fast enough to improve the economy, will then talk about how slow the 'ship' moves making it tough to correct mistakes.

Sometimes if you just let them yammer long enough, they contradict themselves endlessly.


----------



## groovetube

the irony will never, ever cross their minds.


----------



## iMouse

The bottom of that picture assumes that they have minds to lose.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." _- Edmund Burke_

Again assuming that there are good men within the group being considered.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> The bottom of that picture assumes that they have minds to lose.
> 
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." _- Edmund Burke_
> 
> Again assuming that there are good men within the group being considered.


Watergate killed nobody and yet it resulted in outrage. It was all about the cover-up.


----------



## groovetube

iMouse said:


> The bottom of that picture assumes that they have minds to lose.
> 
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." _- Edmund Burke_
> 
> Again assuming that there are good men within the group being considered.


Very true.

After having watched as Bush and co got away with completely lying to Americans about Iraq, with far more devastating effects, it's hard to take the right's sudden shrieking about some distortions of facts in something of a massively smaller scale.

But it's somewhat entertaining to watch.


----------



## iMouse

groovetube said:


> But it's somewhat entertaining to watch.


Watch, yes, but if posts ever come with sound I'll have to buy some airport headphones. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on why Benghazi is being stifled.

Presidents of ABC and CBS News Have Siblings Working at White House With Ties to Benghazi

Top Obama official’s brother is president of CBS News, may drop reporter over Benghazi coverage

Well, well, well...



> Neither the White House nor CBS News responded to requests for comment for this report.


Color me surprised.


----------



## groovetube

Corporate Win: Supreme Court Says Monsanto Has 'Control Over Product of Life' | Common Dreams

Corporations, y'know, the entities that do the right thing without regulations.

Somehow, we'll see how this will be someone else's fault.


----------



## iMouse

But Corporations are people. Congress said so.

And people get held to account for their actions.

Oh well .................


----------



## bryanc

I'm not really sure where to post this; it could go in the visually humorous thread or in other threads where we've argued about corporate taxation. But it's excellent and unusually Apple-specific.

Check it out.


----------



## eMacMan

While Americans are never short on patriotic rhetoric this little quote is bordering on obscene.

When reading this, please recall that all of the Bush Admins reasons for initially invading Iraq had been proven false long before 2007 and that by that time the US had been occupying the country for several years. Also take into account the ongoing use of American drones even in countries like Pakistan that are supposedly US allies. One can hardly call drone attacks against allied nations the height of bravery.



> From William Ray Fullmer: "My nephew, Sgt. Derek Tillman Roberts, spilled his blood on the sands of Iraq to extend the right to live free to the people of the Middle East. On June 14, 2007, Derek was killed by a roadside bomb in Kirkuk, placed by those too cowardly to face him on the battle field. ...


While I have no problem with William choosing to try to remember his nephew on Memorial Day, the Iraq attack can hardly be promoted as a shining example of America at its best.


----------



## winwintoo

I listen to CNN. I know, Margaret, get a life. I also listen to a lot of old time radio that was recorded in the 1940s.

What strikes me about what I hear in both formats is the pervasive "there are enemies at our gates" attitude.

Are there really enemies at their gates?

Why them and not us. What have they done (don't answer that ) to attract such animus?


----------



## iMouse

Pogo had the answer, many years ago.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I don't understand. I know ricin was sent to that idiot Bloomberg. Did someone actually send rice?


----------



## iMouse

Check the spelling on the clerk's sign.

It's a slur on the intelligence of the Gun Lobby.

Unfortunately it's far from the truth.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> Check the spelling on the clerk's sign.
> 
> It's a slur on the intelligence of the Gun Lobby.
> 
> Unfortunately it's far from the truth.


I know what the sign says. But it's a really weak approach to pretend that someone did something stupid, instead of making fun of something they actually did.


----------



## CubaMark

I've never heard of a Libertarian comedian. Now I know why....


----------



## iMouse

Their humour is there, it's just a little more subtle.

A lot.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I've never heard of a Libertarian comedian. Now I know why....


Penn Jillette? Drew Carey?

Successful cartooning requires the cartoonist to do some work. If you are trying to attack a subject over some business that you had to invent, it's clear you're having an off day. Find something real to illustrate, then make fun of that.


----------



## iMouse

What is Penn without Teller? Dryer than the Gobi, that's what.

And Drew always has to rely on side-kicks to make his comedy work. IMO.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> What is Penn without Teller? Dryer than the Gobi, that's what.
> 
> And Drew always has to rely on side-kicks to make his comedy work. IMO.


Teller is a Libertarian.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Teller is a Libertarian.


Libertarian themes are a big part of a lot of comedians act's. It's more common than not, IMO.


----------



## groovetube

It certainly does have a lot of people busting a gut!


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> Teller is a Libertarian.


So that's why he never speaks during their act? :lmao:


----------



## bryanc

*Only slightly worse than Canada.*

.


----------



## Macfury

If the Second Amandment is under attack, why not the First?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> If the Second Amandment is under attack, why not the First?


1st, 3rd, 4th etc were shredded by the Bush Gang. Obushma went ahead and flushed the remains down the toilet.


----------



## groovetube

It's adorable that libertarians are up in arms if they think Obama is stepping on the constitution.


----------



## groovetube

it's fun to watch a conservative get his arse handed to him.

BOOM: 'The Daily Show' Puts Another Debate To Rest


----------



## CubaMark

GT, that was So. F******. Funny.  :lmao: *3....2......1.....*


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> GT, that was So. F******. Funny.  :lmao: *3....2......1.....*


Root is a pre-fab buffoon. Straw man.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> GT, that was So. F******. Funny.  :lmao: *3....2......1.....*


that was indeed absolutely priceless. But there are so many of them out there yapping their yap until they get their arse handed them.


----------



## iMouse

You'll notice that Root doesn't say if the IRS had cause, or what they found.

Perhaps the legal penalties destroyed his life?


----------



## eMacMan

iMouse said:


> You'll notice that Root doesn't say if the IRS had cause, or what they found.
> 
> Perhaps the legal penalties destroyed his life?


Indeed! It is quite possible for the IRS to steal everything you have, even though you don't owe a dime in taxes. Buried in the 70,000 pages of tax code are a myriad of "information" forms. If a taxpayer fails to discover and file even one of these, the Draconian penalties involved are more than sufficient for the IRS to take everything.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> it's fun to watch a conservative get his arse handed to him.
> 
> BOOM: 'The Daily Show' Puts Another Debate To Rest


:lmao::lmao::lmao::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Questions, questions...

Professor From Columbia Comes Forward Saying Obama Never Attended the University



> [Professor] Graff said, “I taught at Columbia for 46 years. I taught every significant American politician that ever studied at Columbia. I know them all. I’m proud of them all. Between American History and Diplomatic History, one way or another, they all had to come through my classes. Not Obama. I never had a student with that name in any of my classes. I never met him, never saw him, never heard of him.”


Makes you wonder even more what his sealed education records contain...


----------



## FeXL

Military told not to read Obama-scandal news



> President Obama has said the outrage over the federal government’s decision to monitor citizens’ phone activity is all “hype.”
> 
> He might want to share his opinion with the U.S. Air Force, which is ordering members of the service not to look at news stories about it.


More:



> The notice applies to users of the Air Force NIPRNET (Non-classified Internet Protocol Router Network), which is the only way that many troops stationed overseas and on bases in the U.S. are able to access the Internet.
> 
> The last line of the executive summary states:
> 
> “Users are not to use AF NIPRNET systems *to access the Verizon phone records collection and other related news stories* because the action could constitute a Classified Message Incident.”


Bold mine.

There's that transparency thing, again.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Questions, questions...
> 
> Professor From Columbia Comes Forward Saying Obama Never Attended the University
> 
> 
> 
> Makes you wonder even more what his sealed education records contain...


The worst kept secret in town is Obama's non-attendance at Columbia! Never mind George Bush's grades--how about no grades?


----------



## eMacMan

So once again Lukovich nails it!


----------



## groovetube

Conservatives: Expanding Plan B Access Will Embolden 'Rapists' And 'Sexual Predators' | ThinkProgress

Wow. Now that truly, is some pretty sick thinking.


----------



## Macfury

Parents must be involved in supervising all medications taken by minors. This includes contraception because it is a medication, not because it is a contraceptive.


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> Parents must be involved in supervising all medications taken by minors. This includes contraception because it is a medication, not because it is a contraceptive.


Are you speaking of an American minor, or a Canadian one, and what do you consider a minor to be, in either case?



> *What are my rights to birth control in Canada?
> *
> 
> *Oral contraceptives (birth control pills, “the pill”)*
> 
> Most young people will be able to get a prescription for oral contraceptives (birth control pills) at age 16 from a doctor or health clinic. Doctors and health clinic staff members will also provide women under the age of 16 with contraceptives, if they are judged as ‘mature minors.’ You can ask about their confidentiality rules when you are making your appointment.
> 
> *Condoms*
> 
> Young people of any age can buy condoms from a drugstore, pharmacy, or grocery store. A pack of 12 condoms costs about $10.
> You can get condoms for free or at a reduced cost from health clinics (like those on campus at colleges and universities), HIV/STI testing centers, and local health departments.


Sauce.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> Are you speaking of an American minor, or a Canadian one, and what do you consider a minor to be, in either case?


Under 18 and in Canada and the U.S. I say this because the parent will beheld responsible if the minor is in any way harmed by any medication. The notion of unsupervised ingestion of medication and parental responsibility are at complete odds.


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> Under 18 and in Canada and the U.S. I say this because the parent will beheld responsible if the minor is in any way harmed by any medication. The notion of unsupervised ingestion of medication and parental responsibility are at complete odds.


Well then you are incorrect.

In matters of sexual health and privacy the parents do not always have the right to know.

Doctors dislike putting their heads in the sand, to the detriment of older adolescents.


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> Well then you are incorrect.
> 
> In matters of sexual health and privacy the parents do not always have the right to know.
> 
> Doctors dislike putting their heads in the sand, to the detriment of older adolescents.


No. I am not incorrect. The parents will be held responsible if medications are misused, so the laws are at odds with their responsibilities.


----------



## groovetube

The GOP Talking Point On Obamacare's Medicare 'Cuts' Bites The Dust | ThinkProgress

So much for the conservative howls on Obamacare.


----------



## Macfury

Social Security Deficit Outlook Remains Unchanged - The Best Life (usnews.com)



> However, that fund covers only the program's hospital charges (known as part A of Medicare). Payments for physician and outpatient services, drug coverage and Medicare Advantage insurance funding shortfalls come from public funds. And the long-term costs of those programs continue to rise.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> No. I am not incorrect.


Yes you are incorrect, as iMouse has just unequivocally shown. You may not think it's fair, and you may even have a point regarding the disconnect between the legal responsibility of a parent for their children and the lack of any legal requirement for Doctors to disclose any birth control prescriptions they may be taking, but that's the way it is.

This is one of those grey areas; teens are neither adults nor children. Parents remain somewhat responsible for the actions of their teen children, but less so than they are for young children. Similarly, teens require and deserve some privacy, control over, and responsibility for their own sexual health. So doctors will prescribe birth control to teens at their discretion without informing parents.


----------



## Macfury

A parent would be held responsible for any medication used improperly by a minor, that might harm a minor, regardless of whether it was prescribed by a doctor.

This has nothing to do with fairness. Clearly you don't understand the issue being discussed.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> A parent would be held responsible for any medication used improperly by a minor, that might harm a minor, regardless of whether it was prescribed by a doctor.
> 
> This has nothing to do with fairness. Clearly you don't understand the issue being discussed.


True but that does not obligate the medical professional to inform the parent.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> A parent would be held responsible for any medication used improperly by a minor, that might harm a minor, regardless of whether it was prescribed by a doctor.
> 
> This has nothing to do with fairness. Clearly you don't understand the issue being discussed.


Interesting that the right wing nut crowd gets hot and bothered over this one. Yet they cheered Bush on when he shredded the bill of rights, and didn't even blink when Obushma flushed the confetti.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> True but that does not obligate the medical professional to inform the parent.


I understand that.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Interesting that the right wing nut crowd gets hot and bothered over this one. Yet they cheered Bush on when he shredded the bill of rights, and didn't even blink when Obushma flushed the confetti.


Some of them cheered, but others didn't. Even among the Conservative talk show cadre, Rush Limbaugh never supported the draconian laws passed in the wake of 9/11. There are still many who were horrified.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Interesting that the right wing nut crowd gets hot and bothered over this one. Yet they cheered Bush on when he shredded the bill of rights, and didn't even blink when Obushma flushed the confetti.


the incredible backtracking and suddenly slamming in reverse can be heard for miles on this one.


----------



## iMouse

This is old, but I think there is something in there, at the end, mimicking Dr. Strangelove's breeding mine-shafts.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Some of them cheered, but others didn't. Even among the Conservative talk show cadre, Rush Limbaugh never supported the draconian laws passed in the wake of 9/11. There are still many who were horrified.


Those weren't Draconian laws they were a complete dismantling of the Bill of Rights. Had Lyin' O'Reilly, Barf Limburger.... and the like made half as much noise about the Patriot Act as they do about the second amendment, a Republirat Congress would have stood up to the Bush Gang and told them where to shove it.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Those weren't Draconian laws they were a complete dismantling of the Bill of Rights. Had Lyin' O'Reilly, Barf Limburger.... and the like made half as much noise about the Patriot Act as they do about the second amendment, a Republirat Congress would have stood up to the Bush Gang and told them where to shove it.


Sure. But it doesn't mean I want them to drop support of the Second.


----------



## bryanc

The 2nd amendment exists to protect the rights enshrined by the Constitution and the other amendments. Americans have been so completely obsessed with the 2nd, they've relinquished the others without a fight.

As I've said in the gun control thread, guns are almost useless in protecting ourselves against the real threats of the modern world. Except for those unfortunate enough to live in circumstances where violent crime is significantly more common than the increased chance of accidental death that results from having guns in your home, guns are nothing but a security blanket for those who don't understand the real threats to our freedom.


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> No. I am not incorrect. The parents will be held responsible if medications are misused, so the laws are at odds with their responsibilities.


Don't worry Macfury, the lefties will raise your children for you. All you need to do is keep working and paying taxes and the state will look after the rest.


----------



## bryanc

This probably deserves a thread of its own, but at what point does the parent's right to 'raise their child' run into society's right to ensure that it's members are protected? Should parent's have the right to control wether their adolescent kids use birth control? Wether they're immunized against diseases? Wether they get necessary medical treatment (like blood transfusions)? Wether they mutilate their children's genitalia? Wether their ears are pierced?

Where's the line?

While I fully support a woman's right to decide wether she gestates a pregnancy to term, once that child is born and can exist independently of her metabolism, society should and does put limits on what a parent can and cannot do with their child. The question is only what those limits should be.


----------



## bryanc

This could really go in many other threads, but it seems most relevant to the American situation, so I'll post it here.




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> This probably deserves a thread of its own, but at what point does the parent's right to 'raise their child' run into society's right to ensure that it's members are protected? Should parent's have the right to control wether their adolescent kids use birth control? Wether they're immunized against diseases? Wether they get necessary medical treatment (like blood transfusions)? Wether they mutilate their children's genitalia? Wether their ears are pierced?
> 
> Where's the line?
> 
> While I fully support a woman's right to decide wether she gestates a pregnancy to term, once that child is born and can exist independently of her metabolism, society should and does put limits on what a parent can and cannot do with their child. The question is only what those limits should be.


The irony has always been interesting when listening to conservatives when it comes to what a person's rights should, and shouldn't be. Generally, the line often falls smack dab right where it fits in their beliefs and ideology.


----------



## bryanc

To be fair, that is equally true of liberals and all other political stripes. The major difference is that the Conservatives are ideologically much further removed from the average Canadian on social issues than any of the other parties. Their success in the past few years has hinged on convincing the electorate that they won't pursue their socially conservative agenda.

The other issue, philosophically, is that as society embraces more liberal social policies, it makes very few demands on individuals to follow those policies; we've legalized abortion, but no one is forced to have abortions; we've legalized same-sex marriages, but no one is forced to marry anyone, etc.

There are certainly aspects of modern liberal society that I'm sure chafe for the socially conservative; they no longer allowed to be openly bigoted, but no one's stopping them from holding their bigoted beliefs personally, or even espousing them openly in their churches.

But social conservatism is not just about adhering to bronze-age beliefs and customs, it's about inflicting those misanthropic ideals on everyone else, and that's why they're so angry about the "moral decay" of our society.


----------



## eMacMan

Wish I knew who put this poster together. They did nail the hit man.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The other issue, philosophically, is that as society embraces more liberal social policies, it makes very few demands on individuals to follow those policies; we've legalized abortion, but no one is forced to have abortions; we've legalized same-sex marriages, but no one is forced to marry anyone, etc.


But we have hospitals forced to perform abortions and organizations have been forced to accept the legitimacy of homosexual unions.



bryanc said:


> But social conservatism is not just about adhering to bronze-age beliefs and customs, it's about inflicting those misanthropic ideals on everyone else, and that's why they're so angry about the "moral decay" of our society.


They largely defund the programs that liberals love--on the belief that it is a primitive custom to force others to pay for something that only a certain segment of the population wants.


----------



## iMouse

Damn Southpaws are always so sinister.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> To be fair, that is equally true of liberals and all other political stripes. The major difference is that the Conservatives are ideologically much further removed from the average Canadian on social issues than any of the other parties. Their success in the past few years has hinged on convincing the electorate that they won't pursue their socially conservative agenda.
> 
> The other issue, philosophically, is that as society embraces more liberal social policies, it makes very few demands on individuals to follow those policies; we've legalized abortion, but no one is forced to have abortions; we've legalized same-sex marriages, but no one is forced to marry anyone, etc.
> 
> There are certainly aspects of modern liberal society that I'm sure chafe for the socially conservative; they no longer allowed to be openly bigoted, but no one's stopping them from holding their bigoted beliefs personally, or even espousing them openly in their churches.
> 
> But social conservatism is not just about adhering to bronze-age beliefs and customs, it's about inflicting those misanthropic ideals on everyone else, and that's why they're so angry about the "moral decay" of our society.


yes. This.

The problem is, the vast majority of Canadians do want the social services, and of course that takes money. The conservatives somehow believe that big business don't have any responsibility to help pay for the services such as health, infrastructure etc., because they gave massive tax breaks to the top end, wiping away finding for important research that was done to protect Canadians in order to prevent findings that impede their agendas and friends, while giving the regular people very little except a lot of service cuts. Quite simply, the exact opposite of what the majority of Canadians want. (Given the right's support is very much the minority here in Canada).

Social conservatism is all about big government and controlling Canadians. Once again, let's remember that Harper grew government bigger and faster than any PM before him.

All this blather I hear about low taxes and less government is nothing but a complete sham when you actually look at the facts.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> But we have hospitals forced to perform abortions and organizations have been forced to accept the legitimacy of homosexual unions.


Hospitals and organizations are not people. No one is forced to have an abortion, nor is anyone forced to preform an abortion.

The social policies of the political left are very rarely constraining the freedoms of individuals. When they are, it's generally along the lines of "you aren't allowed to **** in this waterway, because other people have to drink it."



> ...it is a primitive custom to force others to pay for something that only a certain segment of the population wants.


It is often the case that only a certain segment of the public wants what is right and/or what is needed. That's why we have to have constitutions, governments, police, etc.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> The social policies of the political left are very rarely constraining the freedoms of individuals. When they are, it's generally along the lines of "you aren't allowed to **** in this waterway, because other people have to drink it."


What you are talking about however, is simply the law of the commons, on which neither right nor left has a claim. I see the left as attempting to apply the law of the commons to everything as an excuse for control.


----------



## Macfury

This is a rather eloquent expression of how I perceive freedom. And it has nothing to do with bending other people to my will or taking their incomes to fund my own personal pipe dreams:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This is a rather eloquent expression of how I perceive freedom. And it has nothing to do with bending other people to my will or taking their incomes to fund my own personal pipe dreams:


Much of that speaks to me, as well.


----------



## SINC

That is a wonderful view of government and what it could be.


----------



## winwintoo

Sadly, those sentiments are most often voiced by people who were born on third base and think they made a home run.

Those of us who were born behind the clubhouse and were never granted access have a different take on it.

Rather than spouting rhetoric that suggest that those of who haven't made it are just lazyor stupid, why not, for once, give us some direction.

It's probably too late for me, but as the child of recent immigrants from one of the countries that lost the war in the first half of the 20th century I was denied rights and services that were easily available to others from more acceptable backgrounds. It was a long time ago, but it still goes on.

Please don't point out that the video doesn't make those suggestions, but it's implied.

/end rant


----------



## Macfury

It is not even implied.


----------



## winwintoo

Macfury said:


> It is not even implied.


please walk a mile in my shoes


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is a rather eloquent expression of how I perceive freedom. And it has nothing to do with bending other people to my will or taking their incomes to fund my own personal pipe dreams:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Interesting, but the Republicans of Lincoln's day would not be welcome in the Republican party of today. Also interesting how he praised Ike, but ignored Truman, LBJ, Sen. Hubert Humphrey and Sen. Robert Kennedy. The Democrats of the south that he speaks of are considered "dixiecrats" and they tarnished the ideals of the Democratic party.


----------



## Macfury

winwintoo said:


> please walk a mile in my shoes


What do your personal experiences have to do with what is being presented?


----------



## bryanc

Well, that's about the most self-serving disingenuous bit of propaganda I've seen in decades. My irony meter broke before half way through, while he was singing his paean to the Republicans of history (all of whom embraced policies far to the left of current Democrats), so it was long dead before he got to his schtick about freedom, and how we don't need no stinkin' government to free us (except when we were talking about government changing the laws to allow black people freedom) and how government programs are the same as slavery (except when they aren't, like education and healthcare).

His notion that governments should help people who are disadvantaged is 'despicable' certainly isn't consistent with his predicable invocation of Christianity as the only authority he respects, but it isn't the least bit surprising coming from that lowest form of life - the U.S. Senator.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Well, that's about the most self-serving disingenuous bit of propaganda I've seen in decades. My irony meter broke before half way through, while he was singing his paean to the Republicans of history (all of whom embraced policies far to the left of current Democrats), so it was long dead before he got to his schtick about freedom, and how we don't need no stinkin' government to free us (except when we were talking about government changing the laws to allow black people freedom) and how government programs are the same as slavery (except when they aren't, like education and healthcare).
> 
> His notion that governments should help people who are disadvantaged is 'despicable' certainly isn't consistent with his predicable invocation of Christianity as the only authority he respects, but it isn't the least bit surprising coming from that lowest form of life - the U.S. Senator.


I was waiting for this from the resident fan of "soft tyranny!"


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> What do your personal experiences have to do with what is being presented?


I won't speak for anyone else, but I know of many examples of government programs that have successfully helped people improve their lives and increased their opportunities.

I think this is fundamental difference between the Right and the Left. The Right seems to believe that individuals should never seek or accept help from the government, and all 'charity' should be from one individual to another. I don't know if you've ever accepted charity from another individual, but it adds a layer of social awkwardness to the relationship that never entirely goes away. This is why I far prefer accepting help and support from the state; I have no personal relationship with the state, and it exists to help and support citizens so I feel no awkwardness in accepting it's help.

Again, I don't want to speak for "the Left" but I certainly don't see the state as some all-powerful provider, and I don't want to increase the size or role of government in society, but there are plenty of examples of socially desirable goods that are poorly served by the free market, and which can be well-served by organizations like governments.

Let the market do what it does well, and the state do what it does well, and let them co-operate where neither is optimal.


----------



## Dr.G.

bryanc said:


> Well, that's about the most self-serving disingenuous bit of propaganda I've seen in decades. My irony meter broke before half way through, while he was singing his paean to the Republicans of history (all of whom embraced policies far to the left of current Democrats), so it was long dead before he got to his schtick about freedom, and how we don't need no stinkin' government to free us (except when we were talking about government changing the laws to allow black people freedom) and how government programs are the same as slavery (except when they aren't, like education and healthcare).
> 
> His notion that governments should help people who are disadvantaged is 'despicable' certainly isn't consistent with his predicable invocation of Christianity as the only authority he respects, but it isn't the least bit surprising coming from that lowest form of life - the U.S. Senator.


He is a state of Louisiana senator, not one of the two LA senators in Congress.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> I won't speak for anyone else, but I know of many examples of government programs that have successfully helped people improve their lives and increased their opportunities.


Of course they have helped people. You could likewise help people by stealing cars, selling them and giving the money to the poor, improving their lives and increasing their opportunities.

At what point of diminishing returns do you suppose people should stop receiving "help?"


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting, but the Republicans of Lincoln's day would not be welcome in the Republican party of today.


Today's Republicans are too far to the left to accept them.



Dr.G. said:


> Also interesting how he praised Ike, but ignored Truman, LBJ, Sen. Hubert Humphrey and Sen. Robert Kennedy.


LBJ would not be mentioned because his programs made people dependent on government.



Dr.G. said:


> The Democrats of the south that he speaks of are considered "dixiecrats" and they tarnished the ideals of the Democratic party.


Unfortunately, for good or ill, they are part of the history of the Democrat party. Calling them Dixiecrats doesn't change that.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Today's Republicans are too far to the left to accept them.


Given that essentially everyone else on earth who talks about this agrees that both the Democrats and the Republicans have shifted violently to the Right over the past 3 decades, I can only conclude that you have gone so far to the Right as to be coming around from the other side, and hence perceive the world from a perspective that no one else shares.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Today's Republicans are too far to the left to accept them.
> 
> 
> 
> LBJ would not be mentioned because his programs made people dependent on government.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, for good or ill, they are part of the history of the Democrat party. Calling them Dixiecrats doesn't change that.


Too left??? Guess we are talking about a different Republican Party.
If it were not for the war in Vietnam, LBJ would have gone down in history as the greatest president since FDR when it came to social programs that helped people, the environment, the infrastructure, etc. Since I know your views about FDR, let's not go down that road once again.

Sadly, the southern wing of the Democratic party (i.e., the "dixiecrats) are, as you say, part of the party's history. Luckily, there were enough Democrats and moderate Republicans to override much of their obstructionist policies when it came to civil rights.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> At what point of diminishing returns do you suppose people should stop receiving "help?"


That would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis.

In many cases, the 'help' the government provides more than pays for itself (education, child care, healthcare, etc.) and in some cases, such as research funding, the 'help' the government provides appears to provide exponentially increasing returns.

Obviously, we have limited resources, and must carefully consider how to allocate them, but all evidence suggests that increasing investments in things like healthcare, scientific research, education, are far more valuable, both economically and in terms of intangible desirables, than tax cuts for the rich, prisons, military spending, war-on-drugs, war-on-terror, war-on-women, or most of the other Republican priorities.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Given that essentially everyone else on earth who talks about this agrees that both the Democrats and the Republicans have shifted violently to the Right over the past 3 decades, I can only conclude that you have gone so far to the Right as to be coming around from the other side, and hence perceive the world from a perspective that no one else shares.


They have both shifted sharply to the left. Thankfully not so in Canada.


----------



## bryanc

I guess if you say so enough, it will become true.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> That would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> In many cases, the 'help' the government provides more than pays for itself (education, child care, healthcare, etc.) and in some cases, such as research funding, the 'help' the government provides appears to provide exponentially increasing returns.


In most cases it does not provide exponential benefit. It only reaches its target after the government has skimmed 50% to 75% off the top for administering the program.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Given that essentially everyone else on earth who talks about this agrees that both the Democrats and the Republicans have shifted violently to the Right over the past 3 decades, I can only conclude that you have gone so far to the Right as to be coming around from the other side, and hence perceive the world from a perspective that no one else shares.





Dr.G. said:


> Too left??? Guess we are talking about a different Republican Party.
> If it were not for the war in Vietnam, LBJ would have gone down in history as the greatest president since FDR when it came to social programs that helped people, the environment, the infrastructure, etc. Since I know your views about FDR, let's not go down that road once again.
> 
> Sadly, the southern wing of the Democratic party (i.e., the "dixiecrats) are, as you say, part of the party's history. Luckily, there were enough Democrats and moderate Republicans to override much of their obstructionist policies when it came to civil rights.


Absolutely. Even here in Canada the liberal party we saw under Chretien was further right and we all know the Harper conservatives are further right than the progressive conservatives before them.

I'm not quite how anyone following politics in the last decade or so can think otherwise of either US or Canadian lib/con den/repubs.

It seems supporters on either side vote for an ideal rather than what those actual parties really are.


----------



## iMouse

winwintoo said:


> please walk a mile in my shoes





Macfury said:


> What do your personal experiences have to do with what is being presented?


Please *winwintoo*, don't rise for that tasteless bait.


----------



## groovetube

this is a pretty harsh video clip, but worth the watch. There's a couple swear words in it (not gratuitous), but this is a couple clips from a movie so it isn't over the top by any means.

He Was Asked An Arrogant Question. His Great Answer Shows The Problem With How The U.S. Functions.


----------



## Dr.G.

Veterans of forgotten voting war count the cost - CNN.com

Another important video clip to watch ................. of an event that is very important to remember.


----------



## Sonal

DOMA struck down 5-4.


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## Dr.G.

Sonal said:


> DOMA struck down 5-4.


Did not see this one coming, especially after the Court rejected parts of the historic Voting Rights Act. Still, this time, they were on the correct side of the issue. Good for them. :clap::clap:


----------



## eMacMan

*Wt.....*

Rumour has it that Gov. Parry will demand the death penalty for Martha



> *Published on Jun 27, 2013 *
> A 72-year-old woman who appeared to be doing nothing more than observing Texas Senate proceedings following state Sen. Wendy Davis' (D) filibuster of an abortion bill was forcibly arrested and charged with assaulting an officer early Wednesday morning.
> Video captured by 23-year-old Austin resident Elizabeth Willmann shows two troopers surrounding Martha Northington as she sits in the gallery. One of the officers approaches from behind and yanks Northington's arm to bring her to her feet.
> 
> "You're hurting me!" she shouts. At that point, the crowd erupts and several more troopers surround the woman as she's put into handcuffs.
> 
> "Stop pushing me, I will walk," Northington pleads.
> 
> "This woman was doing nothing but sitting until this state trooper who had already manhandled other women decided to grab her, hurt her and arrest her," Willmann wrote on her YouTube page.
> 
> Arrest records published online showed that Northington was charged with "assault by contact" and resisting arrest. Bond was set at $4,000.
> 
> According to the Burnt Orange Report, felony charges against Northington may have later been reduced.
> 
> Watch this video from Elizabeth Willmann, broadcast June 25, 2013.


Texas Troopers Forcibly Arrest 72-year-old Woman During Wendy Davis Filibuster - YouTube


----------



## iMouse

Many stalwart Texas Rangers are rolling over in their graves.

How the mighty have fallen, to Political Mafioso.


----------



## bryanc

Sonal said:


> DOMA struck down 5-4.


:clap:


----------



## iMouse

Where was that from??

The New Yorker has a nice front page too.


----------



## Dr.G.

Yesterday was the 49th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. It was a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in the United States that outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." — Martin Luther King, Jr.


----------



## Macfury

What is worrisome about the Supreme Court's decision is not what decision was made, but how the decision was arrived at. This decision sets a precedent that will ultimately come back to bite people on all sides of the issue.


----------



## groovetube

By now most people are aware that Zimmerman was found not guilty of muser/manslaughter. Despite the fact he was the aggressor, and Trayvon Martin also has a right to 'stand his ground' against an armed thug coming after him, it was determined that it was legal to go after an innocent man, and kill him.

But, this person, who simply fired a warning shot, gets 20 years.
Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN.com


----------



## John Clay

groovetube said:


> By now most people are aware that Zimmerman was found not guilty of muser/manslaughter. Despite the fact he was the aggressor, and Trayvon Martin also has a right to 'stand his ground' against an armed thug coming after him, it was determined that it was legal to go after an innocent man, and kill him.
> 
> But, this person, who simply fired a warning shot, gets 20 years.
> Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN.com


The case against Zimmerman was weak, and the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was guilty of murder. The police didn't even want to arrest him, as they didn't think it was anything other than clear cut self defense.

The justice system worked as intended, for once.

I wholeheartedly support stand your ground and castle laws; someone being attacked (and make no mistake, Martin was attacking Zimmerman when he was shot) should have no duty to back down and every right to fight back without fear of legal repercussions.

20 years for a warning shot is a bit extreme, but shooting into a wall without a backstop is incredibly reckless, and certainly warrants punishment. Further, she went from the garage, a place of relative safety, back into the house to continue the fight. If she felt threatened, and her husband had come into the garage, she should have shot her husband. That, too, would have likely been a clear case of self defense.


----------



## iMouse

Saw that already, but she's Black, so that makes it OK ........ in Florida.

Someone could have been hurt by falling bullets. And what a about planes in flight??


----------



## eMacMan

John Clay said:


> The case against Zimmerman was weak, and the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was guilty of murder. The police didn't even want to arrest him, as they didn't think it was anything other than clear cut self defense.
> 
> The justice system worked as intended, for once.
> 
> I wholeheartedly support stand your ground and castle laws; someone being attacked (and make no mistake, Martin was attacking Zimmerman when he was shot) should have no duty to back down and every right to fight back without fear of legal repercussions.


Except the evidence also clearly indicated that Zimmerman went a good deal out of his way to harass Martin into attacking him. 

Perhaps not Murder 2 but the Jury should have been given the option of Manslaughter. I suspect they would have convicted him on that one.


----------



## iMouse

Perhaps there was a back-room deal, where that very thing was discussed. 

Florida does strange things politically, and in very strange ways.


----------



## John Clay

eMacMan said:


> Except the evidence also clearly indicated that Zimmerman went a good deal out of his way to harass Martin into attacking him.
> 
> Perhaps not Murder 2 but the Jury should have been given the option of Manslaughter. I suspect they would have convicted him on that one.


The jury had the option of manslaughter, and they opted to acquit him.

Martin wasn't the innocent child that the media has purported him to be, either. The courts declined to admit texts that the self-proclaimed "gangsta" sent, discussing the purchase of a gun, as well as pictures of a (presumably) illegal gun.


----------



## Macfury

John Clay said:


> The case against Zimmerman was weak, and the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was guilty of murder. The police didn't even want to arrest him, as they didn't think it was anything other than clear cut self defense.
> 
> The justice system worked as intended, for once.
> 
> I wholeheartedly support stand your ground and castle laws; someone being attacked (and make no mistake, Martin was attacking Zimmerman when he was shot) should have no duty to back down and every right to fight back without fear of legal repercussions.


I was surprised that they tossed the jury the bone of "manslaughter" at the last minute. They didn't even want that.

Anybody citing "the evidence" as proof of Zimmerman's guilt is picking through the ruins of 58 conflicting testimonies. Zimmerman's injuries spoke loudest.



John Clay said:


> 20 years for a warning shot is a bit extreme, but shooting into a wall without a backstop is incredibly reckless, and certainly warrants punishment. Further, she went from the garage, a place of relative safety, back into the house to continue the fight. If she felt threatened, and her husband had come into the garage, she should have shot her husband. That, too, would have likely been a clear case of self defense.


Here's the problem. The liberal types in Florida created a minimum sentencing law for aggravated assault with the use of a firearm. Once she refused the three-year plea deal, she entered into an all-or-nothing gambit, in which the judge had no discretion in sentencing.


----------



## John Clay

Macfury said:


> Here's the problem. The liberal types in Florida created a minimum sentencing law for aggravated assault with the use of a firearm. Once she refused the three-year plea deal, she entered into an all-or-nothing gambit, in which the judge had no discretion in sentencing.


Yep. She had bad lawyers; should have taken the plea.


----------



## groovetube

John Clay said:


> The case against Zimmerman was weak, and the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was guilty of murder. The police didn't even want to arrest him, as they didn't think it was anything other than clear cut self defense.
> 
> The justice system worked as intended, for once.
> 
> I wholeheartedly support stand your ground and castle laws; someone being attacked (and make no mistake, Martin was attacking Zimmerman when he was shot) should have no duty to back down and every right to fight back without fear of legal repercussions.
> 
> 20 years for a warning shot is a bit extreme, but shooting into a wall without a backstop is incredibly reckless, and certainly warrants punishment. Further, she went from the garage, a place of relative safety, back into the house to continue the fight. If she felt threatened, and her husband had come into the garage, she should have shot her husband. That, too, would have likely been a clear case of self defense.


she went into the house because she didn't have keys to the car. That's what the article said.

In any case, it seems the 'stand your ground' law only applies to -some- people.

It doesn't apply if you fight back hard against an armed thug who is after you. It doesn't apply if you fire a warning shot to prevent your husband from killing you.

If I were Trayvon Martin, I would have also did whatever I could, to beat the living crap out of the armed thug coming after me. I'd be very surprised at anyone who believes in self defence that they also wouldn't do the same thing.

But it seems Trayvon Martin, wasn't allowed that right. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Clearly.


----------



## groovetube

John Clay said:


> Yep. She had bad lawyers; should have taken the plea.


Given Zimmerman got off shooting someone to death, why wouldn't she get off completely for simply firing a warning shot?

Looks pretty clear to me...


----------



## John Clay

groovetube said:


> she went into the house because she didn't have keys to the car. That's what the article said.
> 
> In any case, it seems the 'stand your ground' law only applies to -some- people.
> 
> It doesn't apply if you fight back hard against an armed thug who is after you. It doesn't apply if you fire a warning shot to prevent your husband from killing you.
> 
> If I were Trayvon Martin, I would have also did whatever I could, to beat the living crap out of the armed thug coming after me. I'd be very surprised at anyone who believes in self defence that they also wouldn't do the same thing.
> 
> But it seems Trayvon Martin, wasn't allowed that right. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Clearly.


Stand your ground applies to everyone, regardless of race. 

She lost her self defense case when she went back into the house - she was no longer in imminent danger. You don't need keys to get out of a garage. They have large doors you can walk out of. Most even have buttons you can push to automate the whole thing.

If she'd had a gun in the house, and had shot him while he was choking her, I highly doubt they would have bothered to arrest her.


----------



## groovetube

John Clay said:


> Stand your ground applies to everyone, regardless of race.
> 
> She lost her self defense case when she went back into the house - she was no longer in imminent danger. You don't need keys to get out of a garage. They have large doors you can walk out of. Most even have buttons you can push to automate the whole thing.
> 
> If she'd had a gun in the house, and had shot him while he was choking her, I highly doubt they would have bothered to arrest her.


re-read the article. She wanted the keys to the car to escape.

My opinion is, she had every right to go into her home, and get her car keys to drive away. During that process her life was threatened.

It seems the focus was on the victims actions, not the one who threatened her life.


----------



## John Clay

groovetube said:


> re-read the article. She wanted the keys to the car to escape.
> 
> My opinion is, she had every right to go into her home, and get her car keys to drive away. During that process her life was threatened.
> 
> It seems the focus was on the victims actions, not the one who threatened her life.


I read it just fine. You don't need keys to get out of the garage, and once she had left the house she was no longer in danger.

She could have gone to a neighbors for help before recklessly discharging a firearm.


----------



## Macfury

John Clay said:


> Yep. She had bad lawyers; should have taken the plea.


The only people wailing about this one are those who don't understand that the two cases are not comparable. The judge had no discretion in the sentencing of the second case, because anti-gun zealots had rewritten the laws. "Stand your ground" would have worked when the woman was in the house the first time. She lost that defense when she returned to the house for her keys.


----------



## groovetube

John Clay said:


> I read it just fine. You don't need keys to get out of the garage, and once she had left the house she was no longer in danger.
> 
> She could have gone to a neighbors for help before recklessly discharging a firearm.


really? Just go out the door and she's out of danger? How do you know this? What stops her husband from chasing her down? Do you know where they live, is that feasible?

An awful lot of assumptions made and judging the actions of the victim. 

Even 3 years for firing a warning shot based on having your life threatened, is ridiculous. As I said, another was acquitted for killing someone because he thought his life was in danger. And let's remember, Zimmerman also, rather than staying away from Martin as told by the cops, disobeyed and put himself in danger.

Acquitted. Not after a warning shot, being killing Martin.

btw, ignore the goading ^^^ I'd rather keep this a decent conversation, even if we disagree.


----------



## John Clay

groovetube said:


> really? Just go out the door and she's out of danger? How do you know this? What stops her husband from chasing her down? Do you know where they live, is that feasible?
> 
> An awful lot of assumptions made and judging the actions of the victim.
> 
> Even 3 years for firing a warning shot based on having your life threatened, is ridiculous. As I said, another was acquitted for killing someone because he thought his life was in danger. And let's remember, Zimmerman also, rather than staying away from Martin as told by the cops, disobeyed and put himself in danger.
> 
> Acquitted. Not after a warning shot, being killing Martin.
> 
> btw, ignore the goading ^^^ I'd rather keep this a decent conversation, even if we disagree.


It's presumed the husband didn't follow; if he had, it would have been front and center in the defense's argument as it would have proved imminent harm and potentially justified her actions. Again, firing a warning shot is incredibly reckless thing to do. The police don't do it and despite a Vice Presidential recommendation, nobody else should be doing it either.

Zimmerman wasn't ordered to stop following Martin. 911 call takers in FL don't order people to do anything, as they're legally liable for the results. They suggested he stop (the exact words were "We don’t need you to do that."), and as it was a suggestion there was nothing to disobey.


----------



## Macfury

A complete failure to understand the law will make this case controversial for some.


----------



## groovetube

John Clay said:


> It's presumed the husband didn't follow; if he had, it would have been front and center in the defense's argument as it would have proved imminent harm and potentially justified her actions. Again, firing a warning shot is incredibly reckless thing to do. The police don't do it and despite a Vice Presidential recommendation, nobody else should be doing it either.
> 
> Zimmerman wasn't ordered to stop following Martin. 911 call takers in FL don't order people to do anything, as they're legally liable for the results. They suggested he stop (the exact words were "We don’t need you to do that."), and as it was a suggestion there was nothing to disobey.


I disagree.

It doesn't matter whether he was ordered not to followed, or told he didn't need to do that. He was advised.

Would you consider Zimmerman going after Martin as 'wreckless'? If not, why and what's the difference?

The parallel here is that both Marissa Alexander, and Zimmerman, went -to-, a perceived threat. The Alexander, only fired a warning shot and got 20 years. Zimmerman, shot and killed Martin, and was acquitted.


----------



## mrjimmy

Zimmerman probably would have been better off going to jail. I'm sure the fear of retribution is well substantiated. He will likely live in hiding the rest of his life.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> Zimmerman probably would have been better off going to jail. I'm sure the fear of retribution is well substantiated. He will likely live in hiding the rest of his life.


Who do you suppose would want to do Zimmerman harm?


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> Zimmerman probably would have been better off going to jail. I'm sure the fear of retribution is well substantiated. He will likely live in hiding the rest of his life.


I read that be was wearing disguises and body armour. That can't be a good place to be.


----------



## mrjimmy

groovetube said:


> I read that be was wearing disguises and body armour. That can't be a good place to be.


Not at all. I think jail seems like a much better option. Although, it's unlikely he'll have that many friends there either.


----------



## eMacMan

mrjimmy said:


> Not at all. I think jail seems like a much better option. Although, it's unlikely he'll have that many friends there either.


Given the high percentage of blacks in the can, he would probably be no more secure there. Expect he will go the plastic surgery/name change route once he pays off the lawyers.


----------



## Macfury

Marissa Alexander is simply being sentenced under a law in which the judge has no discretion with sentencing--that is how the law is stated. It's the law of unintended consequences resulting from support for minimum sentencing laws by anti-gun lobbies. No judge given discretion with sentencing would have given her 20 years. Minimum sentencing should be abolished.


----------



## mrjimmy

eMacMan said:


> Given the high percentage of blacks in the can, he would probably be no more secure there. Expect he will go the plastic surgery/name change route once he pays off the lawyers.


I'm sure not a life he envisioned when he pulled the trigger.

At least he has life. Trayvon wasn't so lucky.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> I'm sure not a life he envisioned when he pulled the trigger.


No. He would have expected:
a) for his assailant to stop beating him
b) to go free at that point.


----------



## eMacMan

> Attorney General Eric Holder has assured Russia's justice minister that NSA leaker Edward Snowden, currently living at a Moscow airport, won't be tortured or face the death penalty if turned over to the U.S. Holder's pledge — aimed at persuading Russia to reject Snowden's application for asylum — came in a letter sent July 23 and released on Friday.
> "The United States would not seek the death penalty for Mr. Snowden should he return to the United States," Holder wrote to Alexander Vladimirovich Konovalov. "The charges he faces do not carry that possibility, and the United States would not seek the death penalty even if Mr. Snowden were charged with additional, death penalty-eligible crimes."


Interesting that no promises of a fair public trial were made, and we used to make fun of the Soviet Union for this sort of duplicitous nonsense.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Interesting that no promises of a fair public trial were made, and we used to make fun of the Soviet Union for this sort of duplicitous nonsense.


Because the assumption is that he would receive a fair public trial. Promising it would be to suggest that some other kind of trial is possible.


----------



## iMouse

Macfury said:


> Because the assumption is that he would receive a fair public trial. Promising it would be to suggest that some other kind of trial is possible.


Well, there is a Courts Martial, if they can manipulate him under their control.

Promising a Public Trial is a good idea. If it is fair is a separate matter. This is the U.S.A. remember.


----------



## eMacMan

The main reason Obushma wants to charge him with treason is to avoid the sort of fallout that occurred when they put Daniel Ellsburg on trial. Any lesser crime and the feds would have to take their chances as to what else Snowden might reveal.


----------



## groovetube

Gov. Perry Unable to Find Vagina on Anatomical Doll | THE LAPINE

Now, keep in mind, this isn't the Onion...

I had a good laugh when Perry apparently could be heard saying: “Hell, I was close,” and, "I knew it was there somewhere…” :lmao:

Of more interest was this:



> Perry has been heavily criticized by large numbers of Texans and other Americans for signing into law House Bill 2 which bans abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy and sets restrictive conditions that will shut down the vast majority of the state’s women’s health clinics that provide the service. * The clinics that will remain in business are owned by United Surgical Partners, a company marketed by Perry’s sister, Milla Perry Jones, who is also a shareholder.*


Isn't that always the way?

EDIT: I guess there are some who will nearly crap themselves because the Lapine is a satire site. The fact that it joked about Perry not knowing where the vagina was and I thought it was funny, it never dawned on them that most people would know this likely isn't quite what happened, so I guess you need to be far more explicit about it. I did point to the tidbit about Perry's sister, which I said was of 'more interest', since the not knowing where a vagina was was confusing to some as to wether or not it was know if that was joke.

My sincerest of apologies for the possible and apparent meltdowns over this. :lmao:


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Gov. Perry Unable to Find Vagina on Anatomical Doll | THE LAPINE
> 
> Now, keep in mind, this isn't the Onion...


Lapine is satire, much like the Onion.


----------



## groovetube

Oh rly?


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> Oh rly?


Does the wink mean you knew that?


----------



## Macfury

Instead of manning up with an apology, some provide a "winky" instead.


----------



## groovetube

heavyall said:


> Does the wink mean you knew that?


What do you think?

Apparently, the part about Perry's sister true, of which there are many many sources. Take your pick on google.

Of course righties will hotly deny it.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Lapine is satire, much like the Onion.


The _National Review_ is not satire:

The Fake Perry Abortion Controversy | National Review Online



> Perry’s sister works for a firm whose clients are mostly not in Texas, with Texas clients that are not in the abortion business and, in many cases, extraordinarily unlikely ever to get into the abortion business. If abortionists in Texas should feel the need to move their operations to a hospital or ambulatory-surgery center, they have hundreds and hundreds of of them to choose from, most of which have no affiliation with the firm that employs the governor’s sister. The idea that the Texas abortion bill represents a potential “financial boon for Rick Perry’s sister” is insupportable, somewhere between smear and conspiracy theory.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Does the wink mean you knew that?


Retro edit mode will probably make it appear that the OP actually understood what was being posted.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> What do you think?.


What I _think_ is, that you just got caught lying. Again.


----------



## mrjimmy

heavyall said:


> What I _think_ is, that you just got caught lying. Again.


Wow, you guys sure love to throw around that 'lying' thing. 

#1 - why bother?

#2 - Seems from GT's original post (which I read before the edit), the only thing he was pointing out as not being satire was this:



> The clinics that will remain in business are owned by United Surgical Partners, a company marketed by Perry’s sister, Milla Perry Jones, who is also a shareholder.


Now, are you going to call me a liar also?


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> Wow, you guys sure love to throw around that 'lying' thing.
> 
> #1 - why bother?
> 
> #2 - Seems from GT's original post (which I read before the edit), the only thing he was pointing out as not being satire was this:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, are you going to call me a liar also?


They actually thought a bit on Rick Perry didn't know where the vagina was was to be taken seriously? What was their first clue... 

omg. The liar thing is real prize.

Sure pal. right back atcha :lmao:


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> They actually thought a bit on Rick Perry didn't know where the vagina was was to be taken seriously? What was their first clue...


You made a point of making sure we knew this was not the Onion. In doing so, you tried to claim it was NOT satire.




> omg. The liar thing is real prize.


If it wasn't a near daily thing for you, it might be. 

It's really simple. You stop lying, I'll stop pointing it out.


----------



## groovetube

heavyall said:


> You made a point of making sure we knew this was not the Onion. In doing so, you tried to claim it was NOT satire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it wasn't a near daily thing for you, it might be.
> 
> It's really simple. You stop lying, I'll stop pointing it out.


I actually picked that up on twitter, and it was the same line the tweeter used. It was funny.

I would have thought, that anything that suggested the governor didn't know where a woman's vagina was couldn't really be taken seriously.

I was wrong. Instead, it turns into the usual crapshow, ending with one you jokers calling me a liar.

Screw you. I've had enough of your crap and name calling nonsense and liar crap. 

Grow up.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> I've had enough of your crap and name calling nonsense and liar crap.


Does that mean you're going to stop?


----------



## bryanc

heavyall said:


> You made a point of making sure we knew this was not the Onion. In doing so, you tried to claim it was NOT satire.


As if The Onion is the only source of satire in the world 



> It's really simple. You stop lying, I'll stop pointing it out.


It is simple; you clearly get off on bullying other posters here. It's tiresome... they're just pixels on a screen. You can't push them around and no one here is afraid of you. Why don't you find a playground?


----------



## heavyall

LOL. Calling someone else out on their bull**** is bullying. That's rich.

GT is a liar, plain and simple. Almost daily, he posts outright falsehoods in his attempt to promote a left-wing agenda. If he didn't lie, there'd be nothing for me to "bully" him over.


----------



## groovetube

heavyall said:


> LOL. Calling someone else out on their bull**** is bullying. That's rich.
> 
> GT is a liar, plain and simple. Almost daily, he posts outright falsehoods in his attempt to promote a left-wing agenda. If he didn't lie, there'd be nothing for me to "bully" him over.


And you're a pathetic jerk. A disgrace to any of my good right wing friends.


----------



## mrjimmy

bryanc said:


> It is simple; you clearly get off on bullying other posters here. It's tiresome... they're just pixels on a screen. You can't push them around and no one here is afraid of you. Why don't you find a playground?


Right on brutha!

It's the spectre of the 'left wing agenda' and all it's inherent lies that has their knickers in a knot.

So funny. So pathetic.


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> Right on brutha!
> 
> It's the spectre of the 'left wing agenda' and all it's inherent lies that has their knickers in a knot.
> 
> So funny. So pathetic.


that's the real problem. Neither of them can address things without resorting to the 'liar' thing. 

Getting so you can't even post a funny here.


----------



## Macfury

Pretty hilarious. Someone makes a mistake by posting a link they didn't know was satire, then goes on the attack to cover it up. A little retro-editing and voila--a feeble attempt to pretend it never happened.


----------



## CubaMark

I pop in to check out these threads from time to time... and the topic-to-bull**** ratio here is about 1:8. Maybe y'all could make a thread where you bitch at each other, and leave the threads for the actual topic at hand? Sheesh!


----------



## groovetube

Perhaps the jerks can stop sniping at people that post a funny and calling them liars.

Doesn't matter what thread you post in, your fan club seems to follow anyway.


----------



## bryanc

Having been drawn down to the level of the trolls, I will firstly, apologize... these cretins deserve nothing but to be ignored... and secondly, try to contribute something to get things back on topic...


----------



## iMouse

Courtesy of PIXAR? :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

I too apologize to the others in this thread. Perhaps another addition to the ignore feature. 

Cool animation bryanc.


----------



## heavyall

groovetube said:


> I too apologize.


I accept your apology.


----------



## groovetube

ahh. Quieter now.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> I accept your apology.


I also accept the apology. This is all it takes.


----------



## iMouse

I need a cake knife for the smug in here.


----------



## SINC

Must you always try to reignite things?


----------



## iMouse

Just an observation of childish antics.

I'm done now. You may continue.


----------



## SINC

Thanks for discontinuing your childish antics. It will be appreciated by many.


----------



## groovetube

for the love of gawd.

Can no one just make a funny without all this crap?

wow.

State state of affairs around here.


----------



## SINC

State, state eh? Interesting observation.


----------



## groovetube

I'm not sure how autocorrect managed that one.

"sad state" is what it should have read.


----------



## mrjimmy

heavyall said:


> I accept your apology.





MacFury said:


> also accept the apology.



:lmao:




bryanc said:


> these cretins deserve nothing but to be ignored




:clap:


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> :lmao:


macfur*r*y?

:lmao:


----------



## mrjimmy

groovetube said:


> macfur*r*y?
> 
> :lmao:


Oops! Did I type that?

Let me change it. Don't want to be petty by calling someone something other than than their screen name.


----------



## groovetube

I donno. 

But that was funny.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> Oops! Did I type that?
> 
> Let me change it. Don't want to be petty by calling someone something other than than their screen name.


That's OK jimmy!


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> That's OK jimmy!


:lmao:

Troll.

:lmao:


----------



## iMouse

A light-hearted, funny read ...... unless you are involved.

https://medium.com/something-like-falling/2e7d13e54724


----------



## groovetube

Saw some images show on CTV on Hempfest in Seattle.

Cops were handing out small bags of doritos with stickers that clarify the rules regarding pot.

Wow. We've come a long way since incarcerating people for 20 years for simple possession!


----------



## Macfury

America--what a country!

Daycare worker busted after toddler gets high on marijuana | WTVR.com


----------



## bryanc

groovetube said:


> Saw some images show on CTV on Hempfest in Seattle.
> 
> Cops were handing out small bags of doritos with stickers that clarify the rules regarding pot.
> 
> Wow. *We've* come a long way since incarcerating people for 20 years for simple possession!


{my bold}
I'm afraid we haven't. Several US states have been unable to avoid being hit with the clue stick, finally. But Canada is still mired in the dark ages in this regard.

It's appalling that Canada has fallen behind the US on this obvious and inevitable social development. The amount of money and limited resources (not to mention human capital) Canada wastes on enforcing such stupid antiquated anti-drug laws, not to mention the lucrative tax revenue we're missing out on, is just infuriating.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> It's appalling that Canada has fallen behind the US on this obvious and inevitable social development. The amount of money and limited resources (not to mention human capital) Canada wastes on enforcing such stupid antiquated anti-drug laws, not to mention the lucrative tax revenue we're missing out on, is just infuriating.


The "lucrative tax revenue" is the weakest of the arguments. The strongest is: it's none of your damned business what sort of poison I put into my body, as long as I hurt nobody else in the process.

I want our drug laws to revert to those of the 1890s in which public intoxication was considered the crime--not getting yourself blotto in an opium den or the comforts of your own mother's basement. However, before it happens, I want there to be an objective manner to determine whether a driver is "intoxicated" by marijuana. This is nothing that should be hashed out later, so to speak.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> {my bold}
> I'm afraid we haven't. Several US states have been unable to avoid being hit with the clue stick, finally. But Canada is still mired in the dark ages in this regard.
> 
> It's appalling that Canada has fallen behind the US on this obvious and inevitable social development. The amount of money and limited resources (not to mention human capital) Canada wastes on enforcing such stupid antiquated anti-drug laws, not to mention the lucrative tax revenue we're missing out on, is just infuriating.


It -is- rather galling to see such an incredible waste of hundreds of millions (billions?) squandered on what clearly is, a total failure. The response? Throw more money at it. But you're right on the 'we'. Sadly 'we', are still on track to waste hundreds of millions more on failure.


----------



## SINC

No contest here, you use, you lose. As it should be.


----------



## Sonal

Somewhat ironic that I come to this thread shortly after talking with a close relative who's considering trying marijuana to deal with a thus-far-untreatable medical problem.... several months of testing, no cause. Still pain. 

This person is so far removed from 'drug culture' so to speak, that someone else had to explain that they call them joints. 

Frankly, if using is even somewhat effective, it's a win.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Somewhat ironic that I come to this thread shortly after talking with a close relative who's considering trying marijuana to deal with a thus-far-untreatable medical problem.... several months of testing, no cause. Still pain.
> 
> This person is so far removed from 'drug culture' so to speak, that someone else had to explain that they call them joints.
> 
> Frankly, if using is even somewhat effective, it's a win.


Dr. Sanjay Gupta marijuana weed 'medical marijuana' 'Sanjy Gupta weed' - CNN.com

It appears people are beginning to wake up and realize they have been duped for many decades on this. This is no longer about stoners getting high anymore, the medicinal benefits are becoming recognized as very effective. It is indeed a win win for many now.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> It is indeed a win win for many now.


And a lose, lose for the majority of society.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> And a lose, lose for the majority of society.


Popular opinion is increasingly less likely to agree with you.

Majority Now Supports Legalizing Marijuana | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Frankly, if using is even somewhat effective, it's a win.


Again, this is not the best argument in favour of it. It's like saying "if spending $1 billion can save a life, it's worth it." In most cases, it isn't.



Sonal said:


> Popular opinion is increasingly less likely to agree with you.
> 
> Majority Now Supports Legalizing Marijuana | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press


The majority of people want free cable TV as well. It's not generally the best argument either.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Popular opinion is increasingly less likely to agree with you.
> 
> Majority Now Supports Legalizing Marijuana | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press


It seems silly to reduce the argument down to a popularity contest, but, if people want that, you are absolutely right. The majority of people want to see it legalized, properly regulated, because of very good clear reasons for it.

People are smart enough to realize that the war on pot is a complete and utter failure. The massive sums of money spent yearly is a complete waste. It isn't protecting anyone. In fact it's far more dangerous clearly. It lines the pockets of organized crime, and makes it -more- available to kids. Not only that, the benefits of a hemp industry, the medicinal benefits, are overwhelmingly obvious. This has gone far beyond worrying about 'stoners' or any other nonsense, it's time for some truly honest discussion on how to recover from the decades of deceit we've endured and change course.


----------



## SINC

Allow one drug and the floodgates will open for more and more drugs. Keep the door tightly closed.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> It seems silly to reduce the argument down to a popularity contest, but, if people want that, you are absolutely right. The majority of people want to see it legalized, properly regulated, because of very good clear reasons for it.
> 
> People are smart enough to realize that the war on pot is a complete and utter failure. The massive sums of money spent yearly is a complete waste. It isn't protecting anyone. In fact it's far more dangerous clearly. It lines the pockets of organized crime, and makes it -more- available to kids. Not only that, the benefits of a hemp industry, the medicinal benefits, are overwhelmingly obvious. This has gone far beyond worrying about 'stoners' or any other nonsense, it's time for some truly honest discussion on how to recover from the decades of deceit we've endured and change course.


Big Money maker for organized crime, which is why they strongly oppose decriminalization. Makes you wonder if the governments stand is being partially influenced by mob money, pressure and or blackmail?


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Big Money maker for organized crime, which is why they strongly oppose decriminalization. Makes you wonder if the governments stand is being partially influenced by mob money, pressure and or blackmail?


Of course they do. It's massive money which helps fund everything from guns, to import of harder drugs, etc. 

They would have a much harder time of it if that cash were staved from them and the huge sums we're wasting on busting people with small amounts of pot can be redirected to the real problem drugs.

Win.


----------



## Macfury

It will lead to the decriminalization of using far more drugs. I'm OK with that, but anybody who says that legalizing pot won't lead to wider decriminalization is fooling themselves.


----------



## bryanc

SINC said:


> Allow one drug and the floodgates will open for more and more drugs. Keep the door tightly closed.


Right... The prohibition on alcohol worked brilliantly, and society just fell apart when it was legalized... oh wait... that's not actually what happened; alcohol prohibition was a boon for organized crime, and society managed just fine when it was legalized. The exact same thing will happen when we legalize marijuana. It will be bad for organized crime and Harper's buddies in the prision industry, but it will be good for everyone else.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Right... The prohibition on alcohol worked brilliantly, and society just fell apart when it was legalized... oh wait... that's not actually what happened; alcohol prohibition was a boon for organized crime, and society managed just fine when it was legalized. The exact same thing will happen when we legalize marijuana. It will be bad for organized crime and Harper's buddies in the prision industry, but it will be good for everyone else.


It's amazing to see that people are still holding on to what is very clearly a total failure in policy, and an incredibly expensive failure at that. 

Now with growing evidence of the health benefits it's little surprise that a growing majority of people see the value of legalization. The whole 'fornicating in the streets' style of argument is falling flat now that people are beginning to wake up on this issue.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> The whole 'fornicating in the streets' style of argument is falling flat now that people are beginning to wake up on this issue.


Didn't realize that smoking pot makes people do that, but it is just one more reason not to legalize it.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Didn't realize that smoking pot makes people do that, but it is just one more reason not to legalize it.


I guess some people just have more experience with this stuff than we do.


----------



## bryanc

SINC said:


> Didn't realize that smoking pot makes people do that, but it is just one more reason not to legalize it.


Of course it does! Haven't you seen Reefer Madness?!? 









There are loads of very authoritative studies that show how legalizing marijuana will lead to the collapse of civilization! I just can't find any, because Google is in on the conspiracy.

Then of course, there are all those lefty pinko commie countries, like Switzerland, Portugal, the Czech Republic, and the Netherlands where it's allowed; and just look the terrible state they're in! We should stay the course on prohibition, like Saudi Arabia, China, Indonesia and the UAE; such great bastions of free societies as these are with us in drug prohibition!


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I guess some people just have more experience with this stuff than we do.


I would rather have my level of experience, none. Of course I don't mind admitting my experience level. Many supporters of legalization will not though.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Allow one drug and the floodgates will open for more and more drugs. Keep the door tightly closed.


True... it's been about 90 years or so since they repealed Prohibition on alcohol, and already they're some states are starting to decriminalize marijuana.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> True... it's been about 90 years or so since they repealed Prohibition on alcohol, and already they're some states are starting to decriminalize marijuana.


:lmao:


----------



## bryanc

SINC said:


> I would rather have my level of experience, none. Of course I don't mind admitting my experience level. Many supporters of legalization will not though.


Many supporters won't, because it's none of anyone's business and it's of no relevance to the argument. But many will; there are certainly many people who've never consumed marijuana who actively support it's legalization. It is worth noting, however, that it's not that easy to find Canadians who haven't tried marijuana at some point in their lives; and somehow our lives have not been ruined by this horrible, society-threatening, drug.

Alcohol, tobacco, and coffee are all far more addictive and dangerous to both the individuals consuming them and society as a whole than marijuana.

As for MacFury's point about needing an effective method of assaying intoxication before allowing it, I disagree. While I agree that we shouldn't allow driving while stoned, a stoned driver is far less dangerous than a drunk driver or a sleepy driver, or a distracted driver; a stoned driver is likely to be over-cautious to the point of paranoia, hyper aware of the road and their surroundings, and generally less of a threat than most of the other drivers on the road. Furthermore, we went decades without any good method of testing for alcohol, and we can't test for sleepiness either. Yes, it would be nice if there was a good roadside test, and these are in development. But as far as I can tell, jurisdictions in which marijuana is legal don't have significantly higher cases of impaired driving, so this appears to be a non-issue.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> I would rather have my level of experience, none. Of course I don't mind admitting my experience level. Many supporters of legalization will not though.


I freely admit to never having used the 5#!t. If it were decriminalized I hate the stench to the point where I would be strongly urging the town council to ban it's use in public places; indoor or out. 

That said I still urge decriminalization for two reasons:
Prohibition proved conclusively that users will use, whether or not the substance is banned. An unsupportable/unenforceable legal ban makes it almost irresistible to high school kids. Seriously how many of us waited until we were 21 or 18 before we started drinking?

Given that use levels will remain more or less constant, why not tack the same sort of tax on to whacky tobacky as currently applies to the far more deadly tobacco products? While I doubt that it would de-leverage the bums in Ottawa or Edmonton entirely out of debt, it might shift some of the burden away from my wallet.

For those that are able to choke down the anti-legalization media BS blitz, we will soon have Colorado and Washington State to watch and see whether or not civilization completely collapses when the weed is legally available. 

All of that said I would really hate to see the next federal election decided on a smoke-screen issue such as decriminalization.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> I would rather have my level of experience, none. Of course I don't mind admitting my experience level. Many supporters of legalization will not though.


Actually, if you look at that study I posted, 35% of those who have never tried marijuana support its legalization. (Approximately half of those surveyed have never tried.) 

And support for legalization has been increasing from both people who have never tried it and people who have ever tried it. 

Incidentally, the majority of those who have tried it, haven't used in in the past year, which suggests that they are probably not habitual users.


----------



## bryanc

eMacMan said:


> All of that said I would really hate to see the next federal election decided on a smoke-screen issue such as decriminalization.


This is a good point. I hadn't really thought about this, but now that you point it out, I'm thinking JT will gain a lot of support on this issue alone (which, IMO, he shouldn't). 

Best case scenario: the NDP and the Greens will also include decriminalization in their official platforms, so it won't cost them too much. The Cons will persist in their anti-reality bubble on this and every other issue on which there is any objective evidence, and it'll cost them the next election. Hopefully, being punted from office will stimulate some much-needed reflection on the political Right, and they'll come back to the table with some policy proposals that aren't purely ideologically driven.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Many supporters won't, because it's none of anyone's business and it's of no relevance to the argument. But many will; there are certainly many people who've never consumed marijuana who actively support it's legalization. It is worth noting, however, that it's not that easy to find Canadians who haven't tried marijuana at some point in their lives; and somehow our lives have not been ruined by this horrible, society-threatening, drug.
> 
> Alcohol, tobacco, and coffee are all far more addictive and dangerous to both the individuals consuming them and society as a whole than marijuana.
> 
> As for MacFury's point about needing an effective method of assaying intoxication before allowing it, I disagree. While I agree that we shouldn't allow driving while stoned, a stoned driver is far less dangerous than a drunk driver or a sleepy driver, or a distracted driver; a stoned driver is likely to be over-cautious to the point of paranoia, hyper aware of the road and their surroundings, and generally less of a threat than most of the other drivers on the road. Furthermore, we went decades without any good method of testing for alcohol, and we can't test for sleepiness either. Yes, it would be nice if there was a good roadside test, and these are in development. But as far as I can tell, jurisdictions in which marijuana is legal don't have significantly higher cases of impaired driving, so this appears to be a non-issue.


I don't think they can help themselves on this. Once they go personal, insinuating that anyone who supports legalization must use drugs, you know they haven't the ability to debate the issue intelligently. That's a drag.



eMacMan said:


> I freely admit to never having used the 5#!t. If it were decriminalized I hate the stench to the point where I would be strongly urging the town council to ban it's use in public places; indoor or out.
> 
> That said I still urge decriminalization for two reasons:
> Prohibition proved conclusively that users will use, whether or not the substance is banned. An unsupportable/unenforceable legal ban makes it almost irresistible to high school kids. Seriously how many of us waited until we were 21 or 18 before we started drinking?
> 
> Given that use levels will remain more or less constant, why not tack the same sort of tax on to whacky tobacky as currently applies to the far more deadly tobacco products? While I doubt that it would de-leverage the bums in Ottawa or Edmonton entirely out of debt, it might shift some of the burden away from my wallet.
> 
> For those that are able to choke down the anti-legalization media BS blitz, we will soon have Colorado and Washington State to watch and see whether or not civilization completely collapses when the weed is legally available.
> 
> All of that said I would really hate to see the next federal election decided on a smoke-screen issue such as decriminalization.


I think it should be well regulated still. Just as it is with booze, it shouldn't be smoked out in public, or a vehicle either, and last time I checked you still can't drive high even in places where it's been legalized. Also, it's a whole lot easier to conceal drinking in public than it would be smoking pot for obvious reasons.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Alcohol, tobacco, and coffee are all far more addictive and dangerous to both the individuals consuming them and society as a whole than marijuana.


Coffee is not very dangerous.



bryanc said:


> Furthermore, we went decades without any good method of testing for alcohol...


Before breathalyzer tests, people were asked to walk a straight line and perform other tasks that would determine whether they were capable of driving. Presence of alcohol on the breath was also assessed. In the absence of an effective bongalizer test, some similar method needs to be established.


----------



## bryanc

Macfury said:


> Coffee is not very dangerous.


Neither is marijuana.


> Before breathalyzer tests, people were asked to walk a straight line and perform other tasks that would determine whether they were capable of driving. Presence of alcohol on the breath was also assessed. In the absence of an effective bongalizer test, some similar method needs to be established.


Done. Eye movement when tracking an object and other behavioural indicators are used to assess THC impairment, followed by blood tests if there is indication of impairment.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Neither is marijuana.


You said it was _more_ dangerous than coffee. Even inhaling smoke is more dangerous than drinking coffee.


----------



## bryanc

Ever had to deal with someone going through caffeine withdrawal?

But I'll agree, smoking anything is bad for you. Fortunately, modern marijuana is so potent, the amount of smoke one needs to inhale is very small. The biggest danger with marijuana is that it can be a gateway drug; it can lead to smoking tobacco.


----------



## groovetube

bryanc said:


> Ever had to deal with someone going through caffeine withdrawal?
> 
> But I'll agree, smoking anything is bad for you. Fortunately, modern marijuana is so potent, the amount of smoke one needs to inhale is very small. The biggest danger with marijuana is that it can be a gateway drug; it can lead to smoking tobacco.


or someone quitting smoking? Alcohol? 

And that also assumes that people only smoke marijuana.


----------



## Macfury

bryanc said:


> Ever had to deal with someone going through caffeine withdrawal?


That wouldn't be me. I move from coffee to Pepsi Max in a daily ritual.


----------



## bryanc

I'll admit that coffee is probably no more dangerous than marijuana, but the point is clear; society sanctions (and benefits from taxation of) many drugs, several of which are significantly more harmful if abused and/or far more addictive than marijuana. So you can't use the argument that we prohibit marijuana because it's dangerous/addictive. Marijuana prohibition is based on a variety of historical issues (lobbying by the cotton industry and pharmaceutical industry, primarily), and persists because it generates profits for organized crime and the insane "industries" that have grown up around "the war on drugs" (i.e. the prison industry, the DEA, the organized crime units of major police forces, etc.). But these counter-productive industries (and their lobbyists and political servants) will be the only losers when marijuana is legalized.


----------



## CubaMark

*CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup*

_The CIA has publicly admitted for the first time that it was behind the notorious 1953 coup against Iran's democratically elected prime minister Mohammad Mosaddeq, in documents that also show how the British government tried to block the release of information about its own involvement in his overthrow.

On the 60th anniversary of an event often invoked by Iranians as evidence of western meddling, the US national security archive at George Washington University published a series of declassified CIA documents.

"[T]he military coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and his National Front cabinet was carried out under CIA direction as an act of US foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government," reads a previously excised section of an internal CIA history titled The Battle for Iran.

The documents, published on the archive's website under freedom of information laws, describe in detail how the US – with British help – engineered the coup, codenamed TPAJAX by the CIA and Operation Boot by Britain's MI6.

Britain, and in particular Sir Anthony Eden, the foreign secretary, *regarded Mosaddeq as a serious threat to its strategic and economic interests after the Iranian leader nationalised the British Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, latterly known as BP*. But the UK needed US support. The Eisenhower administration in Washington was easily persuaded._​
(The Guardian)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup*
> 
> _The CIA has publicly admitted for the first time that it was behind the notorious 1953 coup against Iran's democratically elected prime minister Mohammad Mosaddeq, in documents that also show how the British government tried to block the release of information about its own involvement in his overthrow.
> 
> On the 60th anniversary of an event often invoked by Iranians as evidence of western meddling, the US national security archive at George Washington University published a series of declassified CIA documents.
> 
> "[T]he military coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and his National Front cabinet was carried out under CIA direction as an act of US foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government," reads a previously excised section of an internal CIA history titled The Battle for Iran.
> 
> The documents, published on the archive's website under freedom of information laws, describe in detail how the US – with British help – engineered the coup, codenamed TPAJAX by the CIA and Operation Boot by Britain's MI6.
> 
> Britain, and in particular Sir Anthony Eden, the foreign secretary, *regarded Mosaddeq as a serious threat to its strategic and economic interests after the Iranian leader nationalised the British Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, latterly known as BP*. But the UK needed US support. The Eisenhower administration in Washington was easily persuaded._​
> (The Guardian)


Nationalizing an industry without paying the owners fair market value is not something I can support.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Nationalizing an industry without paying the owners fair market value is not something I can support.


Of course we so easily forget that before resorting to nationalization, Iran attempted to get big oil to give them the same royalty arrangement as Saudi Arabia. And like it or not the bottom line is; it's their oil.


----------



## groovetube

Dr. Sanjay Gupta on drug overdoses: "Every 19 minutes someone dies of a prescription drug overdose" – Piers Morgan - CNN.com Blogs



> “Every 19 minutes someone dies of a prescription drug overdose - *[it] doesn’t happen with marijuana.*”


Quick, ban prescription drugs, because, it far, far more dangerous than marijuana.


----------



## kps

bryanc said:


>


Yet, you'd be the first in line to ban and confiscate my legally owned guns which I have for lawful and sporting purposes....


----------



## bryanc

Hardly the first. I see long gun ownership in Canada as being far down the list of problems that need solving. And if there were a way for you to use guns in the privacy of your own home, such that it didn't impact the safety or enjoyment of life for others, I'd have no problem with them at all. But the fact is that your running around in the woods shooting at defenceless animals dramatically impacts the lives and safety of others (not to mention the animals), so this is an obviously false equivalency.


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> Yet, you'd be the first in line to ban and confiscate my legally owned guns which I have for lawful and sporting purposes....


Absolutely--it's there where the logic and reasoning break down. Very important to addle the minds of people legally. Not important at all to recognize and support gun rights.


----------



## kps

bryanc said:


> Hardly the first. I see long gun ownership in Canada as being far down the list of problems that need solving. And if there were a way for you to use guns in the privacy of your own home, such that it didn't impact the safety or enjoyment of life for others, I'd have no problem with them at all. But the fact is that your running around in the woods shooting at defenceless animals dramatically impacts the lives and safety of others (not to mention the animals), so this is an obviously false equivalency.


And what defenceless animals do you kill in your research lab? I atl east eat what I shoot.

Where are you getting that crap about hunting being an impact on people's lives and safety?
This is something you clearly know nothing about, you and I were down this road many a times and you still don't get it or you just refuse to get it due to your own veganism and hoplophobia..


----------



## groovetube

I'm fine with the gun laws we have in Canada in general. I don't have any problem with someone who wants to have a rifle and go hunting. As long as there are background checks, and enough processes for registration as we seem to have. An outright total ban? I doubt that would work.


----------



## kps

Macfury said:


> Absolutely--it's there where the logic and reasoning break down. Very important to addle the minds of people legally. Not important at all to recognize and support gun rights.


Hypocracy is king when it comes to law abiding gun owners and gun grabbers. 

They don't consider that the majority of criminal gun use and gun violence is the direct result of drug traffic be it marijuana (legal or not), meth, ecstasy,heroin, or what ever drug.

And because of that, the violence of drug gang wars will continue after legalization of pot.


----------



## groovetube

kps said:


> Hypocracy is king when it comes to law abiding gun owners and gun grabbers.
> 
> They don't consider that the majority of criminal gun use and gun violence is the direct result of drug traffic be it marijuana (legal or not), meth, ecstasy,heroin, or what ever drug.
> 
> And because of that, the violence of drug gang wars will continue after legalization of pot.


I don't think anyone is dumb enough to actually believe the legalization of pot will suddenly cease all gang violence. Of course it won't.

But the point of the argument is, why continue to give them billions in profits to fund those activities on a substance that quite clearly, shouldn't be illegal, only regulated like alcohol?


----------



## kps

groovetube said:


> I'm fine with the gun laws we have in Canada in general. I don't have any problem with someone who wants to have a rifle and go hunting. As long as there are background checks, and enough processes for registration as we seem to have. An outright total ban? I doubt that would work.


Right, a ban would only affect the law abiding and not the criminals, most people understand that, but there are many who can't see past their own biases or buy into the gungrabber mentality and rhetoric.


----------



## kps

groovetube said:


> I don't think anyone is dumb enough to actually believe the legalization of pot will suddenly cease all gang violence. Of course it won't.
> 
> But the point of the argument is, why continue to give them billions in profits to fund those activities on a substance that quite clearly, shouldn't be illegal, only regulated like alcohol?


I agree to a point. If pot is legalized, the gangs will also ramp up gambling, prostitution, etc. to off set lost revenues. And you'd be surprised how many do think it would have an impact in reducing gang crime.


----------



## Macfury

kps said:


> And because of that, the violence of drug gang wars will continue after legalization of pot.


It would certainly raise the price of the rest of the drugs that are not legal.


----------



## groovetube

kps said:


> I agree to a point. If pot is legalized, the gangs will also ramp up gambling, prostitution, etc. to off set lost revenues. And you'd be surprised how many do think it would have an impact in reducing gang crime.


Well I think there would be -some- reduction in that they won't be fighting over turf etc for pot...

As far as gangs ramping up gambling and prostitution, I don't buy that. It's already ramped up, there's nothing that says that will happen.

Besides, the hundreds of millions spent on enforcing pot, well the enforcement on gambling and other hard drugs could be ramped up. At least there's at least as much credibility in that assumption if not more as the one you're making

Otherwise, you aren't making a case for keeping pot illegal simply because you're afraid they'll have more gambling and prostitution are you? beejacon


----------



## bryanc

kps said:


> Right, a ban would only affect the law abiding and not the criminals, most people understand that


I certainly understand that. It would also provide an easy way to distinguish the law abiding from the criminals, instead of waiting for them to shoot someone. Like any law, it has to be a balance of societal needs vs. individual freedoms. I accept society needs me to fill out a lot of paper work in order to obtain radioactive nucleotides, and that even if I wanted one, I couldn't keep a pet lion in my back yard. Living in civilization has a price; you accept constraints on your freedoms.

So the question is not "can society ban gun ownership", clearly it can. The question is "would the benefits to society of such a ban out weigh the costs?" I think it would, you think it wouldn't. The reason for our difference is probably primarily the fact that you derive pleasure from killing defenceless animals with guns, and I think it's sick.


----------



## kps

bryanc said:


> I certainly understand that. It would also provide an easy way to distinguish the law abiding from the criminals, instead of waiting for them to shoot someone. Like any law, it has to be a balance of societal needs vs. individual freedoms. I accept society needs me to fill out a lot of paper work in order to obtain radioactive nucleotides, and that even if I wanted one, I couldn't keep a pet lion in my back yard. Living in civilization has a price; you accept constraints on your freedoms.
> 
> So the question is not "can society ban gun ownership", clearly it can. The question is "would the benefits to society of such a ban out weigh the costs?" I think it would, you think it wouldn't. The reason for our difference is probably primarily the fact that you derive pleasure from killing defenceless animals with guns, and I think it's sick.


You can have a lion if you want to much easier than I can have a full auto or a rocket launcher. LOL 

Plus I already explained on numerous occasions to you about hunting, but a veggie only eater like you keeps regurgitating the same old vegan rhetoric. Hunting is not only a part of our heritage it's more humane than industrial meat production and contributes to wild life management. I derive pleasure from enjoying the great outdoors and harvesting what I'm allowed to harvest when I get the opportunity. You don't eat meat, fine, don't try to infringe on the rights of those that do. 

I have posted this for you before, clearly you haven't read it.

Hunting in Ontario - Ontario Government, Ministry of Natural Resources


----------



## FeXL

Richard Vedder: The Real Reason College Costs So Much 



> Mr. Vedder is skeptical about the president's proposal to tie federal aid to graduation rates, among other performance metrics. "I can tell you right now, having taught at universities forever, that universities will do everything they can to get students to graduate," he chuckles. "If you think we have grade inflation now, you ought to think what will happen. If you breathe into a mirror and it fogs up, you'll get an A."


Stupid, stupid, stupid...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Richard Vedder: The Real Reason College Costs So Much
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid, stupid, stupid...


Government largesse has inflated the cost of tuition several-fold already. Looks like college will become another welfare program soon.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Government largesse has inflated the cost of tuition several-fold already. Looks like college will become another welfare program soon.


And all ya gotta do for the degree is hold your breath underwater for 30 seconds whilst weaving a basket. Any idiot who thinks he is doing anyone any favours by basing funding on graduation levels is so disconnected from reality that he probably thinks he's king. Oh, wait...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> And all ya gotta do for the degree is hold your breath underwater for 30 seconds whilst weaving a basket. Any idiot who thinks he is doing anyone any favours by basing funding on graduation levels is so disconnected from reality that he probably thinks he's king. Oh, wait...


It isn't an accident. The program is just designed to increase the size and scope of government.


----------



## groovetube

Eric Holder Says DOJ Will Let Washington, Colorado Marijuana Laws Go Into Effect

Finally, some sanity.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Finally, some sanity.


Or the first step in the breakdown of society, depending on one's viewpoint.


----------



## groovetube

Somehow I don't think that marijuana is the cause of the breakdown in society.

There have been examples of other places where there was none of the problems predicted when pot laws were relaxed.

I don't think pot should necessarily be totally free for all legal, there should be all the regulations and laws we have for alcohol (perhaps a little more...) but not wasting massive sums of taxpayers money and seeing it removed from criminals as a major cash cow is a good start.


----------



## SINC

If laws are enacted to control its use, criminals will continue to profit by circumventing those laws. That is just so obvious. It is unbelievable people think things will change.


----------



## groovetube

And this is why bootlegging is so common?


----------



## SINC

Apparently much more common than some people seem to know.


----------



## groovetube

In all the years of being in clubs, booze cans, you name it, I've seen lots of dealers selling pot, but not once have I ever, heard of bootleggers. I'd be interested in seeing some stats.

I'm sure it may happen, but certainly not on the scale that nets billions for gangs from pot.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Apparently much more common than some people seem to know.


As you know, I support decriminalizing marijuana, but on moral grounds of free choice to put any kind of poison into your body you like. All of these other arguments surrounding decriminalization are quite sad and many of the so-called benefits will never materialize.


----------



## Rps

Let's get real here, two of the most addictive and harmful drugs ( outside of coffee ) are controlled by the government ... Tobacco and alcohol. Bringing MaryJane into the fold shouldn't be too large of an issue. But Sinc is right, someone will always circumvent the process for profit. And Grove where I grew up there were Bootleggers and Pot Dealers and probably that will never change.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Let's get real here, two of the most addictive and harmful drugs ( outside of coffee ) are controlled by the government ... Tobacco and alcohol. Bringing MaryJane into the fold shouldn't be too large of an issue. But Sinc is right, someone will always circumvent the process for profit. And Grove where I grew up there were Bootleggers and Pot Dealers and probably that will never change.


I would also note that with the repeal of Prohibition, there was no sudden dismantling of police forces or huge cost savings to society--though Elliot Ness may have been reassigned. Neither was there a sudden and permanent collapse in organized crime. Some criminal organizations adapted, while others folded.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Let's get real here, two of the most addictive and harmful drugs ( outside of coffee ) are controlled by the government ... Tobacco and alcohol. Bringing MaryJane into the fold shouldn't be too large of an issue. But Sinc is right, someone will always circumvent the process for profit. And Grove where I grew up there were Bootleggers and Pot Dealers and probably that will never change.


I agree with you RPS, the thing about gangs is that they will simply go to something else that makes them money. That's pretty obvious to me anyway. Though not everyone in the pot business, is necessarily going to start selling heroin...

But I do see 2 distinct benefits here, instead of wasting huge sums of money enforcing pot, reallocate that to something more beneficial in law enforcement, harder drugs gangs etc., and make money off of it like alcohol/tobacco. Win win.

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that we suddenly will have cheaper law enforcement budgets, that's simply silly.

I know that bootleggers do exist, just not to the extent that dope dealers do.


----------



## Rps

Groove, to some extent we seem to be flowing our Canadian political issues into this U.S. Thread. So here's a question, do you think the U.S will use its military on or in Syria? Not sure the political ducks are in order, nor the "me too" is in place when France goes in...which I think it will. Thoughts....


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Groove, to some extent we seem to be flowing our Canadian political issues into this U.S. Thread. So here's a question, do you think the U.S will use its military on or in Syria? Not sure the political ducks are in order, nor the "me too" is in place when France goes in...which I think it will. Thoughts....


admittedly I haven't been following this as closely lately, had my hands pretty full here.

I'm not sure. But Obama has kinda painted himself into a corner with that 'red line', though I think to some extent he was kinda pressured to give a red line.

One big problem is that the US has lost major credibility because of Iraq. Those that thought Iraq was such a great idea (certainly our current prime minister did!) probably didn't really think that one through.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> So here's a question, do you think the U.S will use its military on or in Syria? Not sure the political ducks are in order, nor the "me too" is in place when France goes in...which I think it will. Thoughts....


Obama has been perceived as a very weak leader worldwide. He has indeed painted himself into a corner on the belief that he was respected. Now he either has to show some military muscle or become even more disrespected overseas.


----------



## Rps

Groove, as with the first Iraq war, I can't help but feel we are being manipulated on this one. Syria is slowly turning into a religious war and the West shouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I wonder about France.. the speed which the UN and NATO moved on Libya certainly should have sent Reg Flags waving. I agree Obama now has created a save face situation, and we all know how those end. While I dislike what the incumbent government in Syria is doing to its people, it is a civil matter and one that does not merit outside military intervention. As issue is the "end-result", if the result is to truly be meaningful and matter and self sustaining the people of Syria need to resolve it themselves...they need to take ownership of the solution. Other than that we are just playing to the unknown. Obama needs to tread carefully here and not be sucked into the political vortex. Not sure he has the currency to back off.


----------



## Ottawaman

> At the same time, the first-ever global analysis of illicit drug abuse published this month by The Lancet, a British medical journal, found that addictions to heroin and popular painkillers, including Vicodin and OxyContin, kill the most people and cause the greatest health burden, compared to illicit drugs such as marijuana and cocaine.





> In the United States, enough painkillers were prescribed in 2010 to medicate every American adult around-the-clock for one month.


Painkiller addictions worst drug epidemic in US history

Seems big pharma is destroying more lives than pot.


----------



## CubaMark

_One of the most respected journalists covering the Middle East is the UK Independent's Robert Fisk (who has been known to throw right-wingers into apoplectic fits). Here's his take on the Syria / Chemical Weapons issue (*EDIT- NOTE: published December 2012*:_

*Bashar al-Assad, Syria, and the truth about chemical weapons*

The bigger the lie the more people will believe it. We all know who said that – but it still works. Bashar al-Assad has chemical weapons. He may use them against his own Syrian people. If he does, the West will respond. We heard all this stuff last year – and Assad’s regime repeatedly said that if – if – it had chemical weapons, it would never use them against Syrians.

But now Washington is playing the same gas-chanty all over again. Bashar has chemical weapons. He may use them against his own people. And if he does…

Well if he does, Obama and Madame Clinton and Nato will be very, very angry. But over the past week, all the usual pseudo-experts who couldn’t find Syria on a map have been warning us again of the mustard gas, chemical agents, biological agents that Syria might possess – and might use. And the sources? The same fantasy specialists who didn’t warn us about 9/11 but insisted that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction in 2003: “unnamed military intelligence sources”. Henceforth to be acronymed as UMIS.​* * * 
...none of the dozens of civilian survivors I have interviewed in the 30 years since 1982 ever mentioned the use of gas.

But now we are to believe that it was used. And so the infantile new fairy tale has begun: Hafez al-Assad used gas against his own people in Hama 30 years ago. So his son Bashar may do the same again. And wasn’t that one of the reasons we invaded Iraq in 2003 – because Saddam had used gas against his own people already and may do so again?​* * *
...when Saddam first used gas on Halabja, the UMIS told CIA officers to blame Iran. And yes, Bashar probably does have some chemicals in rusting bins somewhere in Syria. Madame Clinton has been worrying that they may “fall into the wrong hands” – as if they are presently “in the right hands”. But the Russians have told Bashar not to use them. Would he **** off his only superpower ally?

And by the way, which was the first army to use gas in the Middle East? Saddam? Nope. The Brits, of course, under General Allenby, against the Turks in Sinai in 1917. And that’s the truth.​(Independent UK)


----------



## Macfury

I agree with that assessment CM. And as awful as this may sound, I don't even agree that the use of gas against your own people is automatic grounds for retaliation. If you kill 30 people with gas, but murder thousands with guns, I would say the number of deaths is the key factor, not how they died.


----------



## CubaMark

A friend saw my post of this article on FB and called to my attention that it was published in December 2012 - still relevant to the overall situation, but I do wonder what Fisk would have to say about what's happening right now...


----------



## MacGuiver

Ottawaman said:


> Painkiller addictions worst drug epidemic in US history
> 
> Seems big pharma is destroying more lives than pot.


It may be true that people become addicted to pain killers but trying to justify pot by pointing fingers at painkiller/prescription drug addicts isn't making a sound case. 
First off for everyone dying from or addicted to prescription drugs, there are millions more who'd be dead or suffering unbearably without them. I just had a son go through an excruciating procedure. I'm glad big pharma was there with the medication to help him through.
There are people who's very life depends on prescription drugs, I'm not aware of many pot smokers that can make that claim about smoking a joint other than maybe those who are currently using it legally for medicinal purposes.
People don't NEED to smoke pot (other than those it may help medicinally), people NEED prescription drugs.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> Groove, as with the first Iraq war, I can't help but feel we are being manipulated on this one. Syria is slowly turning into a religious war and the West shouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I wonder about France.. the speed which the UN and NATO moved on Libya certainly should have sent Reg Flags waving. I agree Obama now has created a save face situation, and we all know how those end. While I dislike what the incumbent government in Syria is doing to its people, it is a civil matter and one that does not merit outside military intervention. As issue is the "end-result", if the result is to truly be meaningful and matter and self sustaining the people of Syria need to resolve it themselves...they need to take ownership of the solution. Other than that we are just playing to the unknown. Obama needs to tread carefully here and not be sucked into the political vortex. Not sure he has the currency to back off.


I recall all the war hawks screaming that Obama would look weak if he didn't make a stand, pressing for what the 'red line' was, well, that seems to have been a bad idea. I find it hypocritical that the ones who pressed Obama before for action are often the same ones questioning him for suggesting they actually act.

And I agree with you on the comparison with Iraq, and having the feeling we don't have the full story here. I guess one difference is, Bush and Co. were desperate to drop bombs on Iraq, Obama seems to have held off so far.



MacGuiver said:


> It may be true that people become addicted to pain killers but trying to justify pot by pointing fingers at painkiller/prescription drug addicts isn't making a sound case.
> First off for everyone dying from or addicted to prescription drugs, there are millions more who'd be dead or suffering unbearably without them. I just had a son go through an excruciating procedure. I'm glad big pharma was there with the medication to help him through.
> There are people who's very life depends on prescription drugs, I'm not aware of many pot smokers that can make that claim about smoking a joint other than maybe those who are currently using it legally for medicinal purposes.
> People don't NEED to smoke pot (other than those it may help medicinally), people NEED prescription drugs.


I think you're missing the point. Ottawaman clearly wasn't saying, 'prescription drugs are all bad' because of the massive addiction problem. What was being suggested, is that this idea that we shouldn't legalize or at least decriminalize pot because people might get addicted blah blah is a nonsense argument. It's the opposite of what your suggesting. Completely.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> It may be true that people become addicted to pain killers but trying to justify pot by pointing fingers at painkiller/prescription drug addicts isn't making a sound case.
> First off for everyone dying from or addicted to prescription drugs, there are millions more who'd be dead or suffering unbearably without them. I just had a son go through an excruciating procedure. I'm glad big pharma was there with the medication to help him through.
> There are people who's very life depends on prescription drugs, I'm not aware of many pot smokers that can make that claim about smoking a joint other than maybe those who are currently using it legally for medicinal purposes.
> People don't NEED to smoke pot (other than those it may help medicinally), people NEED prescription drugs.


I get the strong idea that most people are so extremely interested in legalizing pot because it affect them personally. Most of the arguments presented for legalization, other than the right to destroy your own body, are really weak.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> I would also note that with the repeal of Prohibition, there was no sudden dismantling of police forces or huge cost savings to society--though Elliot Ness may have been reassigned. Neither was there a sudden and permanent collapse in organized crime. Some criminal organizations adapted, while others folded.





Macfury said:


> I get the strong idea that most people are so extremely interested in legalizing pot because it affect them personally. Most of the arguments presented for legalization, other than the right to destroy your own body, are really weak.


not sure where you get these ideas. they certainly aren't borne out by historical statistics. the lost tax revenue in the prohibition era was huge, and the man hours and resources used by law enforcement to police prohibition was also substantial, and surely could've been used elsewhere more efficiently.



> The following are statistics detailing how much worse crime got:
> Police funding: INCREASED $11.4 Million
> Arrests for Prohibition Las Violations: INCREASED 102+%
> Arrests for Drunkenness and Disorderly Conduct: INCREASED 41%
> Arrests of Drunken Drivers: INCREASED 81%
> Thefts and Burglaries: INCREASED 9%
> Homicides, Assault, and Battery: INCREASED 13%
> Number of Federal Convicts: INCREASED 561%
> Federal Prison Population: INCREASED 366%
> Total Federal Expenditures on Penal Institutions: INCREASED 1,000%


Organized Crime and Prohibition

although there was always organized crime, prohibition was the goose that laid the golden egg for the underworld.

here's what booze made canada in 2004 :



> The Federal government collected $1.055 billion from GST and $1.221 billion in excise duties on all alcoholic products in 2004. Provincial governments have a great variety of different sales
> taxes and levies on alcohol, with widely varying rates between jurisdictions. Provincial sales taxes range from zero to 35% of retail sales price, and collectively generated at least $1.104 billion in 2004. Liquor licensing fees generated a total of $732 million across all provincial and territorial jurisdictions. The single largest source of government revenue, however, comes from the ‘mark- up’ or profit margin from government monopoly liquor stores, a total of $3.567 billion in 2004. *Thus total revenue from the sale of alcohol in Canada in 2004 amounted to $7.678 billion.*


http://carbc.ca/portals/0/propertyagent/558/files/8/alcpricing.pdf

it'd be foolish to think the government couldn't generate a substantial amount of revenue by taxing pot, and ignoring that side of the argument misses several key points to the debate.


----------



## SINC

i-rui said:


> it'd be foolish to think the government couldn't generate a substantial amount of revenue by taxing pot, and ignoring that side of the argument misses several key points to the debate.


Ask anyone with a drug problem, 'what was the first drug you ever used?' The answer will almost certainly be pot. Missing that side of the argument has its own repercussions.


----------



## i-rui

Actually I'm sure the vast majority would say alcohol was their gateway drug.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Ask anyone with a drug problem, 'what was the first drug you ever used?' The answer will almost certainly be pot. Missing that side of the argument has its own repercussions.


No it isn't. It's alcohol. And many of the hard drug users, skip pot and head straight for the other stuff. In fact many former hard drug users I knew, hated pot.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> not sure where you get these ideas. they certainly aren't borne out by historical statistics. the lost tax revenue in the prohibition era was huge, and the man hours and resources used by law enforcement to police prohibition was also substantial, and surely could've been used elsewhere more efficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Crime and Prohibition
> 
> although there was always organized crime, prohibition was the goose that laid the golden egg for the underworld.
> 
> here's what booze made canada in 2004 :
> 
> 
> 
> http://carbc.ca/portals/0/propertyagent/558/files/8/alcpricing.pdf
> 
> it'd be foolish to think the government couldn't generate a substantial amount of revenue by taxing pot, and ignoring that side of the argument misses several key points to the debate.


You've only demonstrated how costs increased during Prohibition--not how they decreased afterward. My bet is that these expenditures were not merely reversed on repeal, but grandfathered into current expenditures.

The best job I've seen of estimating savings and revenue related to drug legalization is this one:

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/DrugProhibitionWP.pdf

They break up financial benefit of legalization of marijuana in one figure: about $17 billion across the entire U.S. However, as they note:



> ... about half of the budgetary improvement from legalization is due to reduced
> criminal justice expenditure. But for this component of the impact to show up in government budgets, policymakers would have to lay off police, prosecutors, prison guards, and the like. Because such a move would be politically painful, it may not occur. It is certainly true that reduced expenditure on enforcing drug prohibition can still be beneficial if those criminal justice resources are re-deployed to better uses, but that outcome is difficult to achieve.


So something less than $17 billion. Since Canada spends less on its war on drugs,, perhaps somewhere around a billion.

Remember, I favour legalization of marijuana on moral and philosophical grounds. However, I don't like specious financial arguments thrown in as justification.


----------



## i-rui

i wouldn't call billions of dollars per year a "specious financial argument".

it's significant, and as some one who claims to be fiscally conservative you should appreciate that side of the argument.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> i wouldn't call billions of dollars per year a "specious financial argument".
> 
> it's significant, and as some one who claims to be fiscally conservative you should appreciate that side of the argument.


The claimed savings usually run much higher than that. Those are specious--as are notions that the courts, police and prisons will simply close down vast bureaucracies and lay off staff.

I would call this one a _maximum_ of a billion with no promises that the costs will be realized, or that other costs will not eat it up. For example, the development of a marijuana standard, marijuana grading, marijuana marketing board, marijuana advertising regulations, policing and prosecution of growers who operate outside of the regulation, etc. If the government is going to tax the product, it will also need to create a massive study on short and long-term effects of marijuana use,

Also, I'm never impressed with any measure that pretends to "create" money simply by taxing something. You could do the same by doubling booze taxes, Grow it and smoke it yourself as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> i wouldn't call billions of dollars per year a "specious financial argument".
> 
> it's significant, and as some one who claims to be fiscally conservative you should appreciate that side of the argument.


it absolutely is significant, however, after watching these fiscal conservatives in action, a billion here, 10 billion here, oops can't find that 3 billion...

I'm not quite sure what's so difficult to understand here. After taxing pot the government will instead of losing massive sums of tax payers dollars, recoup the costs of regulation, and all facts point to the government -making- a pile of money. Just as cigs and booze have been a cash cow, how would anyone not think pot would be??? :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

With Health Canada coming down hard on e-cigarettes, anyone thinking that marijuana will become a product officially sanctioned by the federal government so it can be taxed are smoking something.


----------



## Macfury

Here's another alternative: abolish all jail sentences for use or sale of marijuana without legalizing it. There's your corrections system savings right there! Charge anyone $200 if they're caught smoking a joint. There's your revenue!


----------



## i-rui

decriminalization is an option. i really doubt you'd raise anywhere near the revenue that legalization would, but it's certainly a better solution then what our governments are currently doing.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> decriminalization is an option. i really doubt you'd raise anywhere near the revenue that legalization would, but it's certainly a better solution then what our governments are currently doing.


If there were no jail sentences for anything involving marijuana--either growing, selling or using--you could see if there were a savings in police budgets. My guess is that you would see none. Zero.

Tobacco is already grandfathered into what's considered saleable. I don't believe any new product that requires you to inhale live smoke through a cigarette would receive approval from health authorities. That's why taxing the product is a pipe dream--so to speak.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> decriminalization is an option. i really doubt you'd raise anywhere near the revenue that legalization would, but it's certainly a better solution then what our governments are currently doing.


regardless of which, removing the huge numbers of people charged with simple possession from clogging up our courts (which is currently super clogged right now...) alone would save huge amounts of taxpayers cash.

It's just silly not to easily see why this makes sense on many different levels.


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> Here's another alternative: abolish all jail sentences for use or sale of marijuana without legalizing it. There's your corrections system savings right there! Charge anyone $200 if they're caught smoking a joint. There's your revenue!


I agree with this. Make it a by-law infraction. The regulating of it could possibly become a bureaucratic nightmare.


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> I agree with this. Make it a by-law infraction. The regulating of it could possibly become a bureaucratic nightmare.


It's a damn sight better than the failure we have now.


----------



## SINC

Seems like so many here have experience and their idea of solutions as well. Without experience, I say leave pot illegal and fine users on a first offence, jail time on the second.


----------



## groovetube

Thank goodness, the majority of Canadians disagree with you.

Jailing people for simple pot possession is not only blindingly stupid, but has already shown itself to be not only a complete failure, but a useless waste of money in keeping people incarcerated.

Just ask the US how well that's worked out for them.


----------



## SINC

Conversely, using pot is 'blindingly' stupid, if that is even a word.


----------



## groovetube

You're free to have your opinion. But you can't just have your way and jail people for doing something YOU think is stupid. There wouldn't be anyone left walking around...

One might think someone is 'blindingly stupid' for enjoying some pints of beer and getting a glow on from the alcohol. That doesn't mean they should go to jail! That's just silly.

And yes, blindingly is indeed a word, I'm surprised you hadn't come across it before!

blindingly - definition of blindingly by Macmillan Dictionary


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> You're free to have your opinion. But you can't just have your way and jail people for doing something YOU think is stupid.


Yep I have my opinion and unlike the free-for-all druggie society promoters, I prefer those who are users to be punished severely.


----------



## groovetube

Who's a 'free for all druggie supporter'?

Exaggerate much?


----------



## SINC

Not at all. I just read threads and see all those who obviously know far more about pot that I, one way or another.

One does not come by that kind of knowledge by reading about pot.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Not at all. I just read threads and see all those who obviously know far more about pot that I, one way or another.
> 
> One does not come by that kind of knowledge by reading about pot.


Depends on what you read.


----------



## SINC

Or what you smoke. It might be a toss up.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Or what you smoke. It might be a toss up.


I don't smoke anything, but I do read quite extensively.


----------



## CubaMark

_Put down your spliffs, amiguitos, time to get back to real news..._

*Robert Fisk: Once Washington made the Middle East tremble*



> Once Lebanon and Syria and Egypt trembled when Washington spoke. Now they laugh. It’s not just a question of what happened to the statesmen of the past. No one believed that Cameron was Churchill or that the silly man in the White House was Roosevelt – although Putin might make a rather good Stalin. It’s more a question of credibility; no one in the Middle East takes America seriously anymore. And you only had to watch Obama on Saturday to see why.
> 
> For there he was, prattling on in the most racist way about “ancient sectarian differences” in the Middle East. Since when was the president of the United States an expert on these supposed “sectarian differences”? Constantly we are shown maps of the Arab world with Shiites and Sunnis and Christians colour-coded onto the nations which we generously bequeathed to the region after the First World War. But when is an American paper going to carry a colour-coded map of Washington or Chicago with black and white areas delineated by streets?
> 
> But what was amazing was the sheer audacity of our leaders in thinking that they could yet again bamboozle their electorates with their lies and trumperies and tomfooleries.


(Independent UK)


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> _Put down your spliffs, amiguitos, time to get back to real news..._


Hmm, I had to look up that term. Some of us never saw it before.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Depends on what you read.


Sinc is incapable of debating this without announcing that the person he disagrees with must obviously smoke pot. Actually, I don't. I haven't in many years.

This topic doesn't really require one to go smoke pot to understand that it's not much different than alcohol, and nowhere near as potent and addictive as the hard drugs. There's no more evidence that pot leads to use of harder drugs than there is for alcohol. I don't think anyone, certainly not me... Is advocating a total free for all. I actually don't think that's a good idea at all. There are many reasons to decriminalize, and I've seen very little beyond 'pot smokers are stupid', or 'you must be a pot smoker yourself' offered as any kind of contribution to the debate.

Which pretty much says everything about thise opposed using such useless retorts. If you can call it that...

Sorry Sinc, your insinuations are embarrassing.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Sinc is incapable of debating this without announcing that the person he disagrees with must obviously smoke pot. Actually, I don't. I haven't in many years.
> 
> Sorry Sinc, your insinuations are embarrassing.


Fine, but thanks for the admission that you have used. It makes my insinuations correct and it is important to the debate.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Hmm, I had to look up that term. Some of us never saw it before.


You really need to start reading a broader range of material.


----------



## SINC

I never bother reading about users and their opinions. As noted, I hold one opinion and that is well known. What potheads think is well, how potheads think. I'm told the effects can last for years beyond giving up the habit.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> I never bother reading about users and their opinions. As noted, I hold one opinion and that is well known. What potheads think is well, how potheads think.


And I suppose likewise, how the willfully ignorant think is how the willfully ignorant think....


----------



## SINC

Either that or the proponents of pot usage wishing too many Canadians becoming users like them.


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Either that or the proponents of pot usage wishing too many Canadians becoming users like them.


Well, seeing as I do read about pot users and their opinions, and you do not bother, I think I have a much better chance of being accurate when I say that it's more likely a willful ignorance thing.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Fine, but thanks for the admission that you have used. It makes my insinuations correct and it is important to the debate.


No. You insinuated that I am likely a user, which is incorrect.

Try acting a little more like an adult rather than childishly making erroneous assumptions about others. And I will return the same respect.

You may find that people might enjoy debating a little more.


----------



## SINC

Hmm, once a user, always a user? If not, perhaps an informed, although often pot affected opinion?


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Hmm, once a user, always a user? If not, perhaps an informed, although often pot affected opinion?


No. For your education, that's like saying having had a few drinks in the past makes someone an alcoholic, and that their opinions are always often by alcohol. 

Or that having taken painkillers in the past makes someone an painkiller-addict whose opinions are always often by painkillers.

Or that having smoked cigarettes in the past makes someone a smoker and that their opinions are always often by smoke.


----------



## SINC

Highly unlikely. Once a person has used pot, their thought process about the legality of the drug is tainted. Sorry, but that does not apply to booze or painkillers or cigarettes, all legal in this country.


----------



## groovetube

I'm pretty sure you're not that ignorant.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Highly unlikely. Once a person has used pot, their thought process about the legality of the drug is tainted. Sorry, but that does not apply to booze or painkillers or cigarettes, all legal in this country.


How about OxyContin, percodans, any of the other quite legally prescribed painkillers.

Do you really think they have less affect on your thinking than pot? Evidence says otherwise.

What do you think of 12 step programs like AA etc. as a curiosity?


----------



## Sonal

SINC said:


> Highly unlikely. Once a person has used pot, their thought process about the legality of the drug is tainted. Sorry, but that does not apply to booze or painkillers or cigarettes, all legal in this country.


There are a number of faulty assumptions in this, but I'll just look at one of them for now.

Booze, painkillers and cigarettes can all be used illegally (for example by minors, or using prescription painkillers that were not prescribed to you) and as such my reasoning still stands.... having had a few drinks underage does not make a person an alcoholic, nor does it necessarily 'taint' their opinion on what the legal drinking age should be.


----------



## Macfury

SINC, it appears that marijuana users can experience flashbacks:

Marijuana may be more damaging than thought | COSMOS magazine



> The study showed that stress or food deprivation – conditions that promote the breakdown of fat in the body – cause stored THC to re-emerge into the bloodstream. The researchers called this phenomenon “reintoxication.”


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> SINC, it appears that marijuana users can experience flashbacks:
> 
> Marijuana may be more damaging than thought | COSMOS magazine


And then there is this:

Everything you know about drugs is wrong


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> And then there is this:
> 
> Everything you know about drugs is wrong


Really? You and your little buddy want to go there?

There's plenty of studies out there that suggest people who drink alcohol are more likely to rape, and/or abuse women. We can spend many posts being total dicks making veiled swipes at the other using cherry picked studies we like because we don't like the debate, or where it's going, couldn't we! 

Well gee, that's intelligent! Bravo!


----------



## SINC

About as intelligent as using pot?


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> About as intelligent as using pot?


wait a second, so you're equating your bringing the discussion down to the level of childish swipes because you don't like it, to how you see people who use pot?

That's rather startling! :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

I think perhaps someone should study the effects of McDonald's chicken McNuggets. Because clearly, they cause some pretty severe rage when the 'user' can't get any!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0IhyAasWw#t=70


----------



## Dr.G.

While I have never had any, I guess she feels that McDonald's chicken McNuggets are great at any time of day.


----------



## mrjimmy

groovetube said:


> I think perhaps someone should study the effects of McDonald's chicken McNuggets. Because clearly, they cause some pretty severe rage when the 'user' can't get any!


That was some of the best TV I've seen in a long time!


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> About as intelligent as using pot?


SINC I believe pot is supposed to be super safe because, as the hippies used to say, it is "a gift from the Earth."


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> That was some of the best TV I've seen in a long time!


I think we may have an epidemic on our hands! :lmao:


----------



## mrjimmy

groovetube said:


> I think we may have an epidemic on our hands! :lmao:


BTW, try not to derail the thread as that was obviously a Rob Ford supporter. His 'base' if you will.


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> BTW, try not to derail the thread as that was obviously a Rob Ford supporter. His 'base' if you will.


Well, eating chicken mcnuggets are STUPID. Just had to say so. beejacon


----------



## MacGuiver

One important contrast between pot and booze people don't consider is that not everyone drinking is doing so with the goal of getting high where that is the soul reason for smoking pot or any other drug for that matter and the most like outcome. I drink, but not much or often. I might drink to a a point of some mild impairment maybe once or twice a year but I probably have a drink at least once a week. A glass of wine with dinner, a beer with a friend. I'm not aware of people smoking pot without the impairment being the desired outcome? If everyone that drank smoked pot instead, rates of impairment would be dramatically higher would they not?


----------



## groovetube

MacGuiver said:


> One important contrast between pot and booze people don't consider is that not everyone drinking is doing so with the goal of getting high where that is the soul reason for smoking pot or any other drug for that matter and the most like outcome. I drink, but not much or often. I might drink to a a point of some mild impairment maybe once or twice a year but I probably have a drink at least once a week. A glass of wine with dinner, a beer with a friend. I'm not aware of people smoking pot without the impairment being the desired outcome? If everyone that drank smoked pot instead, rates of impairment would be dramatically higher would they not?


I doubt that's true at all. There are lots of people, who don't just use pot to 'get high'. Lots of people use small amounts to relax, much like anyone having a few drinks, lots of people use small amounts for the proven medicinal benefits: pain management, managing a condition, etc. 

You are also talking about a totally unregulated and unpredictable product, where it can be really strong, or mixed to improve it's potency, so you can't fairly compare the two. At least with alcohol, you're pretty sure that bottle of whatever you got is what it says, you know how likely strong it is and you can regulate accordingly.

Sure, there are lots of people who smoke to get high. But walk around any bar section downtown Toronto, any university pub, parties, and tell me there are tons of people 'tying one on' with alcohol.


----------



## eMacMan

MacGuiver said:


> One important contrast between pot and booze people don't consider is that not everyone drinking is doing so with the goal of getting high where that is the soul reason for smoking pot or any other drug for that matter and the most like outcome. I drink, but not much or often. I might drink to a a point of some mild impairment maybe once or twice a year but I probably have a drink at least once a week. A glass of wine with dinner, a beer with a friend. I'm not aware of people smoking pot without the impairment being the desired outcome? If everyone that drank smoked pot instead, rates of impairment would be dramatically higher would they not?


A common myth. I can recall during my days on construction crews some crew members passing around a joint on lunch breaks. Never did see any them get stoned to the point where it would have been unsafe to work with them. Even so I always tried to find a boss/foreman that would not tolerate dope on the job-site, but in boom times when help is hard to find a lot gets overlooked.

Also did the suit and tie thing for a blessedly limited time. Saw more than a few lunches where the alcohol consumed was sufficient to impair the collective corporate judgment for the rest of the day.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> A common myth. I can recall during my days on construction crews some crew members passing around a joint on lunch breaks. Never did see any them get stoned to the point where it would have been unsafe to work with them. Even so I always tried to find a boss/foreman that would not tolerate dope on the job-site, but in boom times when help is hard to find a lot gets overlooked.
> 
> Also did the suit and tie thing for a blessedly limited time. Saw more than a few lunches where the alcohol consumed was sufficient to impair the collective corporate judgment for the rest of the day.


wait for more insinuations that anyone who makes any possibly knowledgable comments on the subject that we must be users.

It's just what they do.


----------



## SINC

That's because at the level of knowledge about the product expressed here screams usage.


----------



## Sonal

MacGuiver said:


> One important contrast between pot and booze people don't consider is that not everyone drinking is doing so with the goal of getting high where that is the soul reason for smoking pot or any other drug for that matter and the most like outcome. I drink, but not much or often. I might drink to a a point of some mild impairment maybe once or twice a year but I probably have a drink at least once a week. A glass of wine with dinner, a beer with a friend. I'm not aware of people smoking pot without the impairment being the desired outcome? If everyone that drank smoked pot instead, rates of impairment would be dramatically higher would they not?


I appreciate that you ask questions. 

But no, getting high isn't necessarily the sole reason for smoking pot. Like with alcohol, it's a continuum.... you aren't either drunk or sober, but there are varying levels of impairment depending on how much you consume. Think of how many words and expressions we have for differing levels of alcohol impairment: tipsy, buzzed, drunk, hammered, etc. 

As such, people who do smoke pot don't always try to get high, but are sometimes are just looking to relax, for pain relief, to unwind at the end of the day, to socialize, to help fall asleep, to cope with nausea or lack of appetite, etc. 

Possibly aside from pain relief, it's very similar to the reasons why people drink alcohol. (Well, alcohol also appeals to foodies who want to pair food and drink; except perhaps for Doritos I'm not aware of any pot/food pairings.  )

For the record, I generally have a drink about once or twice a month.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> That's because at the level of knowledge about the product expressed here screams usage.


And there we have it. Just can't help himself.


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> *I appreciate that you ask questions. *
> 
> But no, getting high isn't necessarily the sole reason for smoking pot. Like with alcohol, it's a continuum.... you aren't either drunk or sober, but there are varying levels of impairment depending on how much you consume. Think of how many words and expressions we have for differing levels of alcohol impairment: tipsy, buzzed, drunk, hammered, etc.
> 
> As such, people who do smoke pot don't always try to get high, but are sometimes are just looking to relax, for pain relief, to unwind at the end of the day, to socialize, to help fall asleep, to cope with nausea or lack of appetite, etc.
> 
> Possibly aside from pain relief, it's very similar to the reasons why people drink alcohol. (Well, alcohol also appeals to foodies who want to pair food and drink; except perhaps for Doritos I'm not aware of any pot/food pairings.  )
> 
> For the record, I generally have a drink about once or twice a month.


I agree (the bold)

I think I've said it before, at least MacGuiver can participate without the accusatory tone of the others, despite him possibly not agreeing. :clap:


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> And there we have it. Just can't help himself.


I can help myself any time I choose, what I can't do is to be an expert, always right in every single thread I participate in.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> I can help myself any time I choose, what I can't do is to be an expert, always right in every single thread I participate in.


You are beginning to sound very bitter Sinc. Clearly, there are several members, who don't even currently (or never) use(d) who know far more about the subject than you do, so rather than be a jerk and make all these ridiculous assumptions, try having a conversation without accusing people of things without any reason to. You did this to MannyP a long time ago, you browbeat the guy with accusations of being a druggie when he wasn't, until he said screw it and left the forum. You aren't interested in facts, or anything that might disagree with you, all you want to do is call you think are stupid, over, and over and over.

Yeah, we geddit already.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> I can help myself any time I choose, what I can't do is to be an expert, always right in every single thread I participate in.


If you could see the world through a blue haze, you'd view things differently!


----------



## groovetube

besides, every time you start bad mouthing like that you're going to give your little buddy ^^ an aneurysm from furiousing himself too much over this.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> You are beginning to sound very bitter Sinc.


Not at all, just making an observation of fact. You always have to have the last word . . . 3, 2 . . . wait for it . . .


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> wait for more insinuations that anyone who makes any possibly knowledgable comments on the subject that we must be users.
> 
> It's just what they do.





SINC said:


> That's because at the level of knowledge about the product expressed here screams usage.


Don must of been hammered on the numerous occasions when I pointed out that I do not/have not ever smoked pot. Besides not being able to stand the stench of the ****, there have been times in my life when it was absolutely crucial for me to keep a clean background.

OTOH I do observe what is going on around me and I do not let the lamestream media filter either my observations or my opinions.


----------



## SINC

Not sure why you would even consider those comments I made were about you Bob. Having met you, I know that is not the case. But then we do have admitted users of the stuff promoting legalization to which I say no.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Not sure why you would even consider those comments I made were about you Bob. Having met you, I know that is not the case. But then we do have admitted users of the stuff promoting legalization to which I say no.


Hard not to when GT was quoting my post and your post was in direct response to his.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Don must of been hammered on the numerous occasions when I pointed out that I do not/have not ever smoked pot. Besides not being able to stand the stench of the ****, there have been times in my life when it was absolutely crucial for me to keep a clean background.
> 
> OTOH I do observe what is going on around me and I do not let the lamestream media filter either my observations or my opinions.


Well I won't stoop to his level, needlessly accusing him of something I have no business doing. I have said multiple times I don't use pot, but it's hard to determine why this doesn't get through. Of course his little troll buddy is likely fanning the flames, because you know, that's really all it does around here. 

I don't really care that much, you can be called much worse than... a pot smoker LOL... but I had attempted to perhaps see if Sinc could try and put aside his bat and hatchet and perhaps have a decent conversation, but obviously that was a big fail.

I'm for legalization or at least decriminalization, not because I use because I don't, but there are plenty of other reasons to support it. There are lots of people who don't use pot, who see the light on this issue, and since it's a current issue, that's why I'm bringing it up here.

Sinc will do, as he does. If he wants to be a dick about it, not much I can really do about that nonsense.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Sinc will do, as he does. If he wants to be a dick about it, not much I can really do about that nonsense.


Well, you could try to stop calling me names. I point out your admitted issues and you resort to name calling. Just in case you missed your own shortcomings.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Well, you could try to stop calling me names. I point out your admitted issues and you resort to name calling. Just in case you missed your own shortcomings.


You pointed out quite incorrectly, despite being told, multiple times. You publicly called people here pot users, you certainly very clearly insinuated it.

Don't whimper when you're called out for it. Now you can try to be civil and stop accusing people of things that you've already been told aren't true, or you can continue to act like a total dick.

Your choice.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Your choice.


My choice was to simply acknowledge that you have been a pot user. No more, no less. Live with it. After all, you admitted it. And you are still calling me names for it? Now go ahead and have the last word and deny it. Or not. 3 - 2 - ...


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> I never bother reading about users and their opinions. As noted, I hold one opinion and that is well known. What potheads think is well, how potheads think. I'm told the effects can last for years beyond giving up the habit.





SINC said:


> Either that or the proponents of pot usage wishing too many Canadians becoming users like them.





SINC said:


> Hmm, once a user, always a user? If not, perhaps an informed, although often pot affected opinion?





SINC said:


> My choice was to simply acknowledge that you have been a pot user. No more, no less. Live with it. After all, you admitted it. And you are still calling me names for it?


oh now you want to backtrack. I quoted some of your gems. "pothead", "once a user, always a user", and that's just a couple of them.

Now surely you can disagree on the issue without resorting to this sort of thing Sinc. Clearly your tactic is to belligerently call people potheads, users, etc. Now you're upset that I called you out on it?

I get that you don't like pot, or people that use it. I think everyone has gotten it loud and clear. But currently it's an issue being discussed everywhere and it's in the headline news, even Stephen Harper has admitted they're looking into 'ticketing'.I suspect this issue could become even bigger news, should they decide to go ahead with at least decriminalizing small possession amounts. If it's a topic you dislike, fine, say your piece, and move on without all these swipes of potheads and users at the members here. 

If you have any interest in civility here. And I'm happy to return the favour.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Now you're upset that I called you out on it?


You haven't called me on anything. You admittedly use or used, I don't and never want to see it legalized. That is my opinion, live with it.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> You haven't called me on anything. *You admittedly use* or used, I don't and never want to see it legalized. That is my opinion, live with it.


I called you out on calling people names, like pothead, users etc. 

Still once again, despite being told AGAIN, you insist on insinuating I still use. I don't. Haven't in years.

Should we discuss your drinking problem?


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Should we discuss your drinking problem?


Sure, go ahead. That too will fall flat.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Still once again, despite being told AGAIN, you insist on insinuating I still use. I don't. Haven't in years.


And no I stated you once used. Never made it current. Note the word "or" in that post.



SINC said:


> You haven't called me on anything. You admittedly use *or* used, I don't and never want to see it legalized. That is my opinion, live with it.


----------



## groovetube

ah. Now you're getting it.

I was attempting to see if it was possible if you can participate in this issue without calling people potheads and bullying other members including myself as 'users'. Clearly you're incapable.

The truth is, this issue is getting discussed on it's merits, and will decided without your stomping and calling members here users. And I guess, that;s just something you'll have deal with.

Until then, you can call members potheads and users I guess all you like, I suppose it's within the rules. But it just makes you look like a dick.

That's all.


----------



## SINC

As usual, you insist on the final word that you are, were and will be correct. Fine. Par for the course.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> And no I stated you once used. Never made it current. Note the word "or" in that post.


ah. Backtracking from the swipes. Ok. Now you know, and can conduct yourself accordingly. I have no problem having admitted I've used it many years ago. You'll find a very large number of people have at one time at least tried it.

Personally, I much prefer an excellent bottle of scotch shared with close friends.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> ah. Backtracking from the swipes. Ok.


As usual, you just don't get it. Never made a swipe or like you, called me a name (dick). Who do you suppose is the real problem here, hmmmmm? Got a mirror handy?


----------



## groovetube

Oh Sinc, you're so transparent. 

Have a glass and call it a day.


----------



## SINC

That's all you got? Oh well, struggling to get the last word accomplished once again. Congrats.


----------



## CubaMark

Gentlemen - just a short interruption of this fascinating debate to remind you of the title of the thread in which you are participating:

*The American Political Thread*

...now... carry on... (if you must)...


----------



## SINC

Thanks CM, time to get back to pot expertise in America.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Hop head fer sure.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Thanks CM, time to get back to pot expertise in America.


How about not, and get back to discussing the actual topics rather than going on rants about potheads K?


----------



## groovetube

Bill Moyers Essay: The End Game for Democracy | Moyers & Company | BillMoyers.com

What's sad, is that there are plenty of people who think the solution is, to hasten what these corps/lobbyists etc have already been doing.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Further on the silence around here on Syria...

The Obama-Kerry Syria Narrative Unravels Completely



> Worse for Obama than the Assad regime not being credibly linked to a chemical weapons release is the alternative, is that “rebel” groups may have gotten their hands on some of the Syrian stockpile and have used those weapons themselves, doing so in order to bring the US and other Western nations into the Syrian Civil War to overthrow Assad and allow them to establish yet another anti-Western Islamist regime in a strategic country in the Middle East.


and

Unicorns, Rainbows, Lollipops and Puppies



> Wasn't it awesome when the Anti-war Left actually had the courage of their convictions to protest both LBJ and Nixon instead of just protesting a Republican president who went to war in a Middle Eastern country based upon a brutal dictator suppressing his own people, using and possessing chemical weapons, using them on innocent people, using "hard intelligence" about WMD and terrorism as justification and getting approval from Congress and making his case to the American people.
> 
> But no word yet on the march to Washington by the mythical Anti-War Left against a Democrat President who wants to start a war in a Middle Eastern country based upon a brutal dictator suppressing his own people, using and possessing chemical weapons, using them on innocent people and using "hard intelligence" about WMD and terrorism as justification and trying to get approval from Congress and making his case to the American people.


Where, indeed...


----------



## Macfury

The silence on this is rather shocking. I guess Bush Derangement Syndrome has abated, so now Obama gets a free pass. What a sad sack.


----------



## CubaMark

You guys are suffering from a serious lack of logic. In your view, silence is consent? I've been engaged with this issue in other fora - just haven't bothered banged my head against the wall here at ehMac. FWIW, Obama gets no free pass from me or the majority of my circle of friends. He's been a horrible president, furthering many Bush-era policies and maintaining the American war machine. If anything, the Syria situation is one of the very few in which the Left and Right are finding a great deal of common ground... which may be confounding to some of you.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You guys are suffering from a serious lack of logic. In your view, silence is consent? I've been engaged with this issue in other fora - just haven't bothered banged my head against the wall here at ehMac. FWIW, Obama gets no free pass from me or the majority of my circle of friends. He's been a horrible president, furthering many Bush-era policies and maintaining the American war machine. If anything, the Syria situation is one of the very few in which the Left and Right are finding a great deal of common ground... which may be confounding to some of you.



I didn't say everyone agreed with it. I said the lack of public protest is shocking.

I noted this article with quotes from the usual Hollywood activists:

Syria: Why Hollywood's Anti-War Voices Are Quiet



> Another reason some Hollywood progressives have been reticent to speak out against war in Syria, according to Asner, is fear of being called racist.
> 
> "A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," he said.


I would hope that reasoning doesn't motivate people.


----------



## CubaMark

As do I. I wouldn't think so, among the "serious" hollywood leftists. Those who dabble in it, well, one bad apple...

As for the lack of demonstration - how do the timeframes compare? It seems to me that the buildup to the war in Iraq went on for considerable time (that is, the threat of imminent military action). The Syria situation may simply be "ramping up" in terms of anti-war demos. The social media Left is certainly not onboard with the U.S. plans for military action...

Also, from the article cited above - M*A*S*H's Mike Farrell's comment:

_While some conservatives see hypocrisy, Farrell says that an all-out war in Iraq under Bush, a Republican who was very unpopular in Hollywood, was a much bigger deal than potential missile strikes against Syria under the direction of Obama, _​


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> As do I. I wouldn't think so, among the "serious" hollywood leftists. Those who dabble in it, well, one bad apple...
> 
> As for the lack of demonstration - how do the timeframes compare? It seems to me that the buildup to the war in Iraq went on for considerable time (that is, the threat of imminent military action). The Syria situation may simply be "ramping up" in terms of anti-war demos. The social media Left is certainly not onboard with the U.S. plans for military action...
> 
> Also, from the article cited above - M*A*S*H's Mike Farrell's comment:
> 
> _While some conservatives see hypocrisy, Farrell says that an all-out war in Iraq under Bush, a Republican who was very unpopular in Hollywood, was a much bigger deal than potential missile strikes against Syria under the direction of Obama, _​



I think the conservatives are upset because hollywood hasn't impeached Obama yet. Oh wait they can't do that...


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> You guys are suffering from a serious lack of logic. In your view, silence is consent?


If Bush was still in the progressives on this board would be all over him for Syria. Yes, silence here is tacit consent.



CubaMark said:


> FWIW, Obama gets no free pass from me or the majority of my circle of friends. He's been a horrible president, furthering many Bush-era policies and maintaining the American war machine.


That's the only criticism you can level at him?



CubaMark said:


> If anything, the Syria situation is one of the very few in which the Left and Right are finding a great deal of common ground... which may be confounding to some of you.


I see much support from the left for Obama's desire to attack Syria. That's what's confounding about this. I see far less support from the right.


----------



## groovetube

Looks like the latest possible deal with the Russians will see a big "POP! SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssssssss......." in the conservatives hoping to make hay on this.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Looks like the latest possible deal with the Russians will see a big "POP! SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssssssss......." in the conservatives hoping to make hay on this.


Can someone please interpet this for me? 

TIA


----------



## FeXL

FeXL said:


> Can someone please interpet this for me?
> 
> TIA


Crickets.

That's what I thought, too.

I've been mulling this over & it actually sounds like groovetube is applauding this because there will be no political fodder to be critical of, rather than actually approving the fact that there may not be war.

Seriously screwed up priorities or what...


----------



## Dr.G.

An excellent speech by Pres. Obama tonight. He was truthful and aware of the limitations upon his authority, and the importance of not "rushing in where angels fear to tread" .......... but not being afraid to stand up for what is right. We shall see if the Russians can actually get Syria to give up the chemical weapons, which it said it did not have, and stop using them against their own people. Let us be hopeful in this undertaking.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## FeXL

Pretty fair assessment of the Syria situation.

Drawing an Al-Qaeda Red Line 



> Why is Assad’s use of WMDs so much worse than Syrian rebels’ allying with jihadists?


----------



## Macfury

Obama turned this into something far bigger than it needed to be by foolishly drawing a "line in the sand" and then twiddling his thumbs when it was crossed. Russia has temporarily saved his ass based on Putin's taking up blabbermouth John Kerry's notion regarding chemicals--something that Kerry attempted desperately to recant as "thinking out loud."


----------



## FeXL

I wasn't nearly as enamoured by his speech last night. Same old, same old insults. Ace nails it. Language warning.

The Master Diplomat, Seeking Support from a Rival Nation (Republicans), Chooses to Insult Them



> Come witness the Master Diplomat use his silvery tongue to insult the very people whose support he's asking for.
> 
> In a speech that had been good, for an Obama speech, avoiding his usual gassy nothingness in favor of tangible nouns and clear verbs of the sort he apparently was taught were poor form in college, Obama chose to drop this little insult:
> 
> _And so to my friends on the right, I ask you to reconcile your commitment to America's military might with a failure to act when a cause is so plainly just.
> 
> To my friends on the left, I ask you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floor, for sometimes resolutions and statements of condemnation are simply not enough._​
> Note that Obama's "friends on the left" believe in freedom and dignity in all people. People on the right don't, apparently.
> 
> What do people on the right believe in? "Military might." Pure force. Note that he decouples military might from any moral purpose -- he doesn't say "your commitment to keeping the nation safe" or "your commitment to a patriotic defense of America." No, such moral approval is stripped away so that Obama can speak neutrally of the one thing Obama thinks conservatives care about, naked martial power.


What a laughing stock...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I wasn't nearly as enamoured by his speech last night. Same old, same old insults. Ace nails it. Language warning.
> 
> What a laughing stock...


Agrees. Each speech of his is seeded with divisiveness. He's the anti-Abe Lincoln.


----------



## FeXL

When Obamacare has lost the unions, you know it's gotta be a stinker...

White House Scrambles to Silence AFL-CIO Obamacare Criticism



> White House officials, including top Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett, were on hand at this week's AFL-CIO convention to pressure union leaders not to voice their growing angst with Obamacare in the form of a strongly worded resolution blasting the president's government healthcare overhaul.


----------



## groovetube

Study Suggests Southern Slavery Turns White People Into Republicans 150 Years Later | ThinkProgress

Interesting...


----------



## FeXL

Our Never Ending Obama Nightmare



> On the issue of Syria, Obama has been clearly out maneuvered by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who made his case directly to the American people this week with a stunning editorial in the New York Times.
> 
> Putin is obviously feeling very confident as Obama’s Syrian policy has been both unpopular and ever changing. After promising to launch an “unbelievably small” attack on Syria, Obama is now backtracking and giving peace a chance, while retaining the right to strike at a later time. He is left with few options but to accept Putin’s leadership on the issue.


In sum?



> It is a sad day in this country when a former agent of the KGB is more persuasive than our own President.


Yup.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Interesting...


Something else interesting & rather revealing...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Something else interesting & rather revealing...


Oh, FeXL, please! Are you seriously claiming that modern Republicans & Democrats have *anything* to do with the parties who were in power during the time period in which those votes were taken?


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> Oh, FeXL, please! Are you seriously claiming that modern Republicans & Democrats have *anything* to do with the parties who were in power during the time period in which those votes were taken?


beejacon


----------



## groovetube

If anyone gets a chance to catch last nights Jon Stewart, particularly the segment 'dude, where's my war?' It's priceless 

All the republicans now crawling out mad and upset because there's no attack.


----------



## Macfury

Incredible.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Obama turned this into something far bigger than it needed to be by foolishly drawing a "line in the sand" and then twiddling his thumbs when it was crossed. Russia has temporarily saved his ass based on Putin's taking up blabbermouth John Kerry's notion regarding chemicals--something that Kerry attempted desperately to recant as "thinking out loud."


+5 on this. The key to statesmanship is not making something out of nothing. But Putin didn't do this out of the kindness of his heart. He protected and allied country, a naval base, and a market for his weapons....probably under the guise of defending against U.S. Imperialism. I think the greatest flawed assumption in the so called West is that 1- the U.S. Has a right to be the world's police force, an 2- you can instill democracy in less than a year if you include the instruction sheet. The key here is that our myopic view of Middle East politics has caused nothing but trouble in the world dating back to Queen Victoria.

Let the Syrians have their civil war, only the can resolve their issue....everyone else should back off. If the UN was an institution of one country one vote it may have resolved many of the world's on going issues .....but the Old Boy Network does believe in the Prime Directive.........pity.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> +5 on this. The key to statesmanship is not making something out of nothing. But Putin didn't do this out of the kindness of his heart. He protected and allied country, a naval base, and a market for his weapons....probably under the guise of defending against U.S. Imperialism. I think the greatest flawed assumption in the so called West is that 1- the U.S. Has a right to be the world's police force, an 2- you can instill democracy in less than a year if you include the instruction sheet. The key here i that our myopic view of Middle East politics has caused nothing but trouble in the world dating back to Queen Victoria.
> 
> Let the Syrians have their civil war, only the can resolve their issue....everyone else should back off. If the UN was an institution of one country one vote it may have resolved many of the world's on going issues .....but the Old Boy Network does believe in the Prime Directive.........pity.


Even placing the use of limited strikes before Congress was simply bizarre theatre created for American consumption. The Syrians know that Obama threatened them for crossing a "line in the sand" and then did not make good on that threat. The problem was the line in the sand. As horrible as chemical weapons might be, death is death and Assad has killed many more with bullets.

I was amazed to see that on every international issue of _Time _magazine, the cover story is how Putin handed it to Obama by cleverly assuming the position of the moral high ground. in the U.S., the cover story is about paying college athletes.


----------



## Rps

No matter .... When you "police" in another country it's an act of war.....whether invited or not. Any time a country steps back from "issuing the order" is a good thing ..... Especially when the outcome is so unclear.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> No matter .... When you "police" in another country it's an act of war.....whether invited or not. Any time a country steps back from "issuing the order" is a good thing ..... Especially when the outcome is so unclear.


I agree. At the end of the day, a diplomatic solution is better than flinging bombs resulting in many innocent civilian deaths. I'm sure the Russian proposal wasn't a huge surprise to the Obama admin.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> No matter .... When you "police" in another country it's an act of war.....whether invited or not. Any time a country steps back from "issuing the order" is a good thing ..... Especially when the outcome is so unclear.


I agree. 

However, the point is that a country loses international credibility when it makes empty threats. If the threat had never been made in the first place, the U.S. would have more credibility left. Instead, it has handed off diplomacy to the Russians. As much as the administration wants to paint this as a victory, Kerry's early protests of "No, that's not what I meant" had already sealed the notion that this diplomatic effort had been bungled.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> +5 on this. The key to statesmanship is not making something out of nothing. But Putin didn't do this out of the kindness of his heart. He protected and allied country, a naval base, and a market for his weapons....probably under the guise of defending against U.S. Imperialism. I think the greatest flawed assumption in the so called West is that 1- the U.S. Has a right to be the world's police force, an 2- *you can instill democracy in less than a year if you include the instruction sheet. The key here is that our myopic view of Middle East politics has caused nothing but trouble in the world dating back to Queen Victoria.*
> 
> Let the Syrians have their civil war, only the can resolve their issue....everyone else should back off. If the UN was an institution of one country one vote it may have resolved many of the world's on going issues .....but the Old Boy Network does believe in the Prime Directive.........pity.


I missed this post. I agree with your second point strongly. After the Bush years and his 'operation Iraqi Freedom" etc., your second point becomes very clear in the utter failure (not to mention the immense expense) of all that.

Currently we have two sides, one, trying claim this Syrian thing as a victory, but then we have the other, desperately trying to get mileage out of this to paint Obama as having waffled or whatever term they need, it's rather hard to pin them down since first they yelled loudest we shouldn't bomb them, now, it's 'we've lost credibility'. And lets remember it was them that in hysterics screamed for a 'red line' quite some time ago. Obama never should have given in.

Back and forth politic. Though, apparently only one side does it


----------



## Macfury

I think this wraps it up nicely:

Marc Thiessen: Obama's unbelievably small presidency - The Washington Post



> If you have any doubts that President Obama’s handling of Syria is an utter debacle, witness the embarrassing spectacle this morning as his top aides scramble to place blame for it at their boss’s feet.
> 
> In today’s Wall Street Journal, senior officials leak how they desperately tried to talk Obama out of his “head-spinning reversal” on airstrikes and his decision to go to Congress. “He received swift — and negative — responses from his staff,” the Journal reports. National security adviser Susan Rice, we learn, warned that “he risked undermining his powers as commander in chief.” Senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel “also raised concerns.” But Obama ignored their advice and “took the gamble anyway.”
> 
> Such loyalty.
> 
> We’re conducting foreign policy by faux pas. This entire episode has been driven not by deliberate strategy but by slips of the tongue. Obama’s declaration of a “red line” on chemical weapons was a slip of the tongue. So was Secretary of State John Kerry’s offer to have Syria give up its chemical weapons. There is no plan, no coherence to anything this administration is doing on Syria.
> 
> More embarrassing still, Obama is actually claiming that the diplomatic “breakthrough” is the result of his administration’s show of strength.


----------



## FeXL

Pretty much nails it.

And, I agree, incroyable. I wonder where the political equivalent of Sceptical Science resides? Oh, wait, it's the MSM...

In addition, further:

Obama warned of earlier sarin attacks in Syria, stayed mum until deaths hit masses



> Well before last month’s sarin nerve gas attack in a Damascus suburb, the Obama administration had gathered intelligence that chemical weapons had been used in Syria on multiple occasions but did not take action because there were debates about who was responsible and there was little public outcry, according to officials familiar with the intelligence.


Yet,



> The British report pinned the previous incidents on the Assad government. “We have assessed previously that the Syrian regime used lethal CW on 14 occasions from 2012,” it said, adding that “we think that there have been other attacks although we do not have the same degree of confidence in the evidence.”


So, the Brits & the French, among others, knew who was to blame but Obama didn't?

Riiiight...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

For something by Sam Clemens, that's a weak set-up for the punch line.


----------



## FeXL

Nice.

Congressman: CIA Employee Who Refused to Sign Non-Disclosure on Benghazi Suspended



> A CIA employee who refused to sign a non-disclosure agreement barring him from discussing the Sept. 11, 2012 terrorist attack in Benghazi, Libya, has been suspended as a result and forced to hire legal counsel, according to a top House lawmaker.
> 
> Rep. Frank Wolf (R., Va.) revealed at an event on Monday that his office was anonymously informed about the CIA employee, who is purportedly facing an internal backlash after refusing to sign a legal document barring him from publicly or privately discussing events surrounding the Benghazi attack.
> 
> The revelation comes about a month after several media outlets reported that CIA employees with knowledge of the terror attack had been forced to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDA) and submit to regular polygraph tests.


The response?

Well, denial, of course...



> The CIA reiterated its denial in a Tuesday call to a Free Beacon reporter, calling Wolf’s allegations “categorically false.”


Over a year later & still many unanswered questions.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the US nanny state & its causes...

The Myth of Live-and-Let-Live Liberalism



> In Washington, D.C., the city’s department of health wants to subject people seeking a tattoo or body piercing to a mandatory 24-hour waiting period before they can go through with it. That’s just one of the regulations in a 66-page proposal of new rules for the tattoo and piercing industry.


A good rant.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Good one, CM ............... or MT.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


>


:clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> For something by Sam Clemens, that's a weak set-up for the punch line.


"Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain

"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."
Mark Twain

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't."
> Mark Twain
> 
> "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
> Mark Twain
> 
> "Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."
> Mark Twain
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Yes! This is classic Clemens!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes! This is classic Clemens!


True. Paix, mon ami.


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## FeXL

When Obama has lost Warren Buffett...

Warren Buffett Sours On ObamaCare:'We Need Something Else'



> "'We have a health system that, in terms of costs, is really out of control,' he said. 'And if you take this line and you project what has been happening into the future, we will get less and less competitive. So we need something else.'


Comments originally taken from a March story.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Bush behind the mask -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cRsfW0Jv8]Opt Out - The Exam - Creepy Uncle Sam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Spitting on Their Graves: Democrats Leave Benghazi Hearing Before Testimony From Families of Victims



> During the second portion of a House Oversight and Government Reform hearing about Benghazi Thursday on Capitol Hill, the majority of Democrats on the Committee left the room and refused to listen to the testimony of Patricia Smith and Charles Woods. Ms. Smith is the mother of Sean Smith, an information management officer killed in the 9/11 Benghazi attack. Charles Woods is the father of Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods, who was also killed.


Unable to face their accusers? Questions just a little too pointed? Spineless SOB's...


----------



## FeXL

I have no love for Home Depot. That said, further consequences of Obama-care.

Home Depot sends 20,000 employees into Obamacare



> The government-run exchange requires people to buy insurance for a government-designed set of health-care services, including services promoted by corporate lobbies. The insurance packages can be more expensive than sought by workers, especially younger workers, but the extra costs are partially offset by subsidies from other taxpayers.
> 
> Home Depot’s current limited liability plan allows part-timers to get critical health-care coverage at low cost.
> 
> Home Depot’s founder, Bernie Marcus, is a strong critic of the government network. ”*Obamacare is going to kill off small business*,” he said this year.
> 
> The accelerating shift of workers to Obama’s taxpayer-funded network will likely drive up costs to taxpayers, disadvantage companies that try to pay for their employees’ health-care and make more voters dependent on health-care decisions made by Democratic officials and legislators.


Further:



> The switch is also making a mockery of Obama’s promise that Americans would be able to keep their pre-Obamacare insurance if they prefer.
> 
> “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what,” he said in June 2009.


How does this guy look himself in the eye in the mirror in the morning when he shaves? Oh, forgot. King Obama has one of his servants do that...


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## Macfury

You can keep your private health care,,, however, Obama is going to make it so expensive that you have no choice but to give it up.

And the hits keep coming:

Cleveland Clinic announces job cuts to prepare for Obamacare | Reuters

Some lefty news sources are carrying water for Obama here and claiming the hospital is simply looking for efficiencies in the wake of budget cuts (due to Obamacare).


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Democrats, one in particular, exiting the Benghazi hearings.

You Sicken Me....



> You, Representative [Tammy] Duckworth, of all the people who sat on that esteemed panel, should be acutely aware of what must have been running through the minds of Tyrone and Sean as they waited on the ground for a rescue force while enduring hostile fire.
> 
> ...
> 
> You, having endured being grievously wounded and fighting to land an aircraft that was falling out of the sky in hostile territory probably can tell the story of how the minutes felt like hours until you saw a QRF that had IR "U.S." tabs on the chest plates of their IBAs coming to secure your aircraft, help treat you and your crew for your wounds, and evacuate all of you to safety at the risk of their lives so that you could be treated and returned to your families.
> 
> I bet you are glad that the QRF did their duty November 12, 2004 huh? *Couldn't be bothered to do yours though right?*


Almost unbelievable. Almost...


----------



## groovetube

Sorry, The Latest Anti-Obamacare Article To Go Viral Is Totally Wrong | ThinkProgress



> One economist interviewed by ThinkProgress, the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities’ Paul Van de Water, described this calculation as one of the stupidest things he’s read in a long time and likened it to arguing that college costs will increase for a “typical” family if the federal government adopts policies that help lower-income Americans afford college educations. Yes, the nation will spend more on education if more students enroll in colleges and universities, but the “typical” student already attending college won’t; she or he will continuing paying tuition at more or less the same rate, while the newly-enrolled student will presumably benefit from some sort of subsidized tuition rate.


Why does this not surprise me.


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## FeXL

$3.39T Quantitative Explosion: Fed Owns More Treasuries and MBSs Than Publicly Held Debt Amassed From Washington Through Clinton



> The same day that the Federal Reserve's Federal Open Market Committee announced last week that the Fed would continue to buy $40 billion in mortgage-backed securities (MBSs) and $45 billion in U.S. Treasury securities per month, the Fed also released its latest weekly accounting sheet indicating that *it had already accumulated more Treasuries and MBSs than the total value of the publicly held U.S. government debt amassed by all U.S. presidents from George Washington though Bill Clinton.*


Bold mine.

Must be all those free cellphones...


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## Macfury

Adding the debacle of Obamacare to the mix will really create explosive economic growth. What a disaster in the making.

I'm shocked at the lefties who insist that American families will not be paying $7,450 in the years from 2014 to 2022. The progressive argument? The government is paying for it, not the families. I think this sort of disconnect about who pays taxes is one of the central short-circuits of the progressive mindset.

The average family income has also dropped by $4,000 annually since Obama took office. Enjoy the "free" healthcare.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Adding the debacle of Obamacare to the mix will really create explosive economic growth. What a disaster in the making.
> 
> I'm shocked at the lefties who insist that American families will not be paying $7,450 a year between 2014 and 2022. The progressive argument? The government is paying for it, not the families. I think this sort of disconnect about who pays taxes is one of the central short-circuits of the progressive mindset.
> 
> The average family income has also dropped by $4,000 annually since Obama took office. Enjoy the "free" healthcare.


The industrial grade ignorance being exhibited by those who are defending this policy is astounding...


----------



## groovetube

John McCain Defends Obamacare, Slams Ted Cruz For Comparing Implementation To Nazi Appeasement | ThinkProgress

Further skulduggery, I agree with McCain, 



> McCAIN: I’d remind my colleagues that, in the 2012 election, Obamacare, as it’s called — and I’ll be more polite, the ACA — was a subject that was a major issue in the campaign. I campaigned all over America for two months, everywhere I could. And in every single campaign rally I said “we had to repeal and replace Obamacare.” Well, the people spoke. They spoke, much to my dismay, but they spoke and they re-elected the President of the United States. No that doesn’t mean that we give up our efforts to try to replace and repair Obamacare. But it does mean elections have consequences and those elections were clear, in a significant majority, that the majority of the American people supported the President of the US and renewed his stewardship of this country. *I don’t like it, it’s not something that I wanted the outcome to be. But I think all of us should respect the outcome of elections, which reflects the will of the people.*


Imagine! Respecting the will of the people?? Something all the 'strong stable majority' pushers may not like.

And this:


> McCain also slammed Cruz for comments in his lengthy speech that suggested accepting Obamacare was similar to Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement of the Nazis. “I do not agree with that comparison. I think it’s wrong,” he said, “And I think it’s a disservice to those who stood up and shouted at the top of their lungs that we cannot appease, and we must act, and we did act.”


When you got nothing...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The industrial grade ignorance being exhibited by those who are defending this policy is astounding...


What cracks me up is the yokels who merely state that Obama won and everyone should back him on Obamacare. However, when you tell those same people that Harper won, they snivel about dictatorship, plurality and representing the will of all Canadians, not just those who voted for Harper.


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## Aurora

^ Oh yeah.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Imagine! Respecting the will of the people?? Something all the 'strong stable majority' pushers may not like.


You ought to try it in your own country instead of trolling by bashing the Harper Conservatives etc., that you do as a matter of course all too often.


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## i-rui

The majority of voters voted for Obama. The same cannot be said about Harper. That's a fairly significant point.


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## groovetube

oh it wasn't me who said it, it was McCain. I quoted the article, I thought it was interesting that although McCan was strongly opposed to Obamacare, he still came out against the comments comparing it to appeasing the nazis. I agree with him on that.


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## Macfury

i-rui said:


> The majority of voters voted for Obama. The same cannot be said about Harper. That's a fairly significant point.


It's not a significant point in the US.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> The majority of voters voted for Obama. The same cannot be said about Harper. That's a fairly significant point.


Good point. Our majority governments run off often less than 40%.


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## i-rui

Macfury said:


> It's not a significant point in the US.


it is when people compare Obama's victory to Harper's.


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## Macfury

i-rui said:


> it is when people compare Obama's victory to Harper's.


Nope.


----------



## groovetube

http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_vide...---ted-s-excellent-adventure&nbck=999-001-001

Jon Stewart on Cruz.

Hilarious. Shows the sheer insanity of the right's quaking fear of obamacare.

Of course, Cruz is fine with his government health care :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_vide...---ted-s-excellent-adventure&nbck=999-001-001
> 
> Jon Stewart on Cruz.
> 
> Hilarious. Shows the sheer insanity of the right's quaking fear of obamacare.
> 
> Of course, Cruz is fine with his government health care :lmao:


Hey, don't knock Cruz ............ he was the first US Senator to read Dr.Seuss into the Congressional Record, and in the end he voted to support funding for Obamacare. His heart is in the right place ............... even though his mind might not be these days. Sadly, he gave up his Canadian citizenship.  We need more people who appreciate children's literature in the House of Commons. C'est la vie.

Paix, mon ami.


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## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, don't knock Cruz ............ he was the first US Senator to read Dr.Seuss into the Congressional Record, and in the end he voted to support funding for Obamacare. His heart is in the right place ............... even though his mind might not be these days. Sadly, he gave up his Canadian citizenship.  We need more people who appreciate children's literature in the House of Commons. C'est la vie.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


ha ha ha, so true G.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, don't knock Cruz ............ he was the first US Senator to read Dr.Seuss into the Congressional Record, and in the end he voted to support funding for Obamacare. His heart is in the right place ............... even though his mind might not be these days. Sadly, he gave up his Canadian citizenship.  We need more people who appreciate children's literature in the House of Commons. C'est la vie.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I firmly believe that anyone running for political office should owe allegiance only to that nation.


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## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I firmly believe that anyone running for political office should owe allegiance only to that nation.


Well, he could not think of running for president of the US if he was still a Canadian citizen. Of course, this is why I can't run for any high elected office here in Canada, since I would refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and all of her heirs.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hey, don't knock Cruz ............ he was the first US Senator to read Dr.Seuss into the Congressional Record, and in the end he voted to support funding for Obamacare.


Not quite. He voted to move the bill along, so he could vote against one containing the debacle of Obamacare.


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## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> I firmly believe that anyone running for political office should owe allegiance only to that nation.





Dr.G. said:


> Well, he could not think of running for president of the US if he was still a Canadian citizen. Of course, this is why I can't run for any high elected office here in Canada, since I would refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen and all of her heirs.


At least Canada makes it relatively painless when circumstances demand a Canadian give up their citizenship. For Americans it is a red-tape nightmare.

BTW I thought you swore allegiance to the Queen and all her heirs when you took that oath of citizenship.


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## groovetube

Isn't swearing an oath to the queen a relatively recent requirement brought on by the conservatives?


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> At least Canada makes it relatively painless when circumstances demand a Canadian give up their citizenship. For Americans it is a red-tape nightmare.
> 
> BTW I thought you swore allegiance to the Queen and all her heirs when you took that oath of citizenship.


I remained silent during that part of the ceremony, eMacMan. However, I was the one person who knew all the words to O Canada, which we all sung after the swearing in ceremony, and I sang the loudest ................... albeit off key for part of the singing.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Isn't swearing an oath to the queen a relatively recent requirement brought on by the conservatives?


Trolling again are we? It's been used since before you were born.



> The Oath of Citizenship, or Citizenship Oath (in French: serment de citoyenneté), is a statement recited and signed by candidates who wish to become citizens of Canada. Administered at a ceremony presided over by a designated official, the oath is a promise or declaration of fealty to the Canadian monarch and a promise to abide by Canada's laws and uphold the duties of a Canadian citizen; upon signing the oath, citizenship is granted to the signer.[1]
> 
> The vow's roots lie in the oath of allegiance taken in the United Kingdom, *the modern form of which was implemented in 1689 by King William II and III and Queen Mary II and was inherited by and used in Canada prior to 1947.*[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Citizenship_(Canada)


----------



## Macfury

To be fair, SINC, where does ignorance leave off and trolling begin?


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Trolling again are we? It's been used since before you were born.
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Citizenship_(Canada)


No, that wasn't a troll you overgrown whiny child.

I had thought the oath to the queen was made not mandatory during the Chretien years, and returned recently. Turns out I was mistaken, the recent court case was an attempt to declare it unconstitutional, not a response to a recent move.

Marc, how did to get away with not pledging allegiance to the queen?


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> No, that wasn't a troll you overgrown whiny child.
> 
> I had thought the oath to the queen was made not mandatory during the Chretien years, and returned recently. Turns out I was mistaken, the recent court case was an attempt to declare it unconstitutional, not a response to a recent move.
> 
> Marc, how did to get away with not pledging allegiance to the queen?


I gave the pledge but remained silent when it came to swearing allegiance to the Queen and all of her future heirs. I was in the front row, directly in front of the person administering the oath. She saw me raise my hand and heard me say the following :

"I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the Canadian Constitution .... and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen." If I was questioned as to why I did not say the whole piece, I would have been honest with them as to my reasons. It should be noted that during my interview to see if I could speak English and read English, I was asked to read this oath aloud and explain what it meant. I did so, but stated that I disagreed with the fact that I was swearing allegiance to the Queen and all her heirs, but that I full agreed with the part of faithfully observing the laws of Canada and that I would honestly fulfill my four responsibilities of being a Canadian citizen. Since this was only a test to see if I could read and speak English, the person giving me the test just heard me say my piece. C'est la vie.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I gave the pledge but remained silent when it came to swearing allegiance to the Queen and all of her future heirs. I was in the front row, directly in front of the person administering the oath. She saw me raise my hand and heard me say the following :
> 
> "I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the Canadian Constitution .... and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen." If I was questioned as to why I did not say the whole piece, I would have been honest with them as to my reasons. It should be noted that during my interview to see if I could speak English and read English, I was asked to read this oath aloud and explain what it meant. I did so, but stated that I disagreed with the fact that I was swearing allegiance to the Queen and all her heirs, but that I full agreed with the part of faithfully observing the laws of Canada and that I would honestly fulfill my four responsibilities of being a Canadian citizen. Since this was only a test to see if I could read and speak English, the person giving me the test just heard me say my piece. C'est la vie.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Interesting. Back when the liberals were in power, it seems they wanted to move to getting rid of the requirement. I had thought it was done with, but after reading some more, it seems they backed down, according to what I read Chretien was in the middle of dealing with the separatists, and thought it was the wrong time.

Given the conservative government's push for pictures of the queen, and rebranding military brands back to 'royal' etc., I think we can assume this won't be happening while they're in power. Who knows what future liberal governments will do.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Interesting. Back when the liberals were in power, it seems they wanted to move to getting rid of the requirement. I had thought it was done with, but after reading some more, it seems they backed down, according to what I read Chretien was in the middle of dealing with the separatists, and thought it was the wrong time.
> 
> Given the conservative government's push for pictures of the queen, and rebranding military brands back to 'royal' etc., I think we can assume this won't be happening while they're in power. Who knows what future liberal governments will do.


Does have me wondering if the Cons might not use Marc's confession as a handy excuse to forcibly convert him into the Con fold. Perhaps one of those new privately funded and operated compounds which King Harpo is so eager to build will be Marc's new home.beejacon

In a vain attempt to steer this back onto topic, I wonder if Obushma is holding back on Keystone in order to force Harpo to sign an IGA on FATCA. This would of course be a clear violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights, but then the US government has pretty much shredded its own constitution so I doubt that they are worried about Canadians rights.

Open letter to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, opposition leader NDP Thomas Mulcair and Liberal leader Justin Trudeau


> .....
> *MR. FLAHERTY:*
> You initially took a strong stand against FATCA. You called it “unwarranted” and “extraterritorial.” You said it would “turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.”
> 
> Yet, you have refused numerous requests from Canadians to reassure them their rights will be protected under Canadian laws and the Charter. You have only told us you are working to find a “solution both countries will find agreeable.”
> 
> There should be no negotiating fundamental Canadian rights. It should be clear. Canadian laws and the Charter protect all Canadians.
> 
> 
> ......


NOTE: I would have suggested he was trying to suck the PM into Syria and Iran, but Harpo seems more than happy to make that blunder without outside interference.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Interesting. Back when the liberals were in power, it seems they wanted to move to getting rid of the requirement. I had thought it was done with, but after reading some more, it seems they backed down, according to what I read Chretien was in the middle of dealing with the separatists, and thought it was the wrong time.
> 
> Given the conservative government's push for pictures of the queen, and rebranding military brands back to 'royal' etc., I think we can assume this won't be happening while they're in power. Who knows what future liberal governments will do.


Most likely true, gt. I knew what I was going to do and not do/say, which is why I stood in the front, directly in the line of vision of the person giving the oath of citizenship. If they wanted to deny me my citizenship papers, they could have done it then or when I openly said that I was not going to pledge my lifelong allegiance to the Queen and her heirs.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Does have me wondering if the Cons might not use Marc's confession as a handy excuse to forcibly convert him into the Con fold. Perhaps one of those new privately funded and operated compounds which King Harpo is so eager to build will be Marc's new home.beejacon
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Death before dishonor, eMacMan. My wife considers herself a "red Tory", so she would be somewhat safe. However, if it comes down to "fight or flight", I shall try diplomacy first, inviting them in to 4PM High Tea and some snacks. If this does not work, then I feel sorry for any Conservative who tries to force me "into the fold". We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

> The Oath of Citizenship, or Citizenship Oath (in French: serment de citoyenneté), is a statement recited and signed by candidates who wish to become citizens of Canada. Administered at a ceremony presided over by a designated official, the oath is a promise or declaration of fealty to the Canadian monarch and a promise to abide by Canada's laws and uphold the duties of a Canadian citizen; upon signing the oath, citizenship is granted to the signer.[1]
> 
> The vow's roots lie in the oath of allegiance taken in the United Kingdom, *the modern form of which was implemented in 1689 by King William II and III and Queen Mary II and was inherited by and used in Canada prior to 1947.*[2]


That must have been quite a trick for Marc to sign that oath with his fingers crossed.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> That must have been quite a trick for Marc to sign that oath with his fingers crossed.


Well, I am still a Canadian citizen.


----------



## groovetube

U.S. government shuts down for first time in 17 years as Congress misses midnight deadline | National Post

Well, it's happened. The extreme right and their campaign of lies over obamacare just can't get it together to get past the fact that it's been passed into law, and the american people, actually do want it. The onslaught of utter nonsense, the latest being employers are shuttering full time to part time jobs. like.... that hasn't been happening for years.

I hope the extreme right republicans take it right on the chin over this, which seems quite likely.


----------



## Rps

Groove, the United States has been shut down 17 times since,what, 1999. This is just media. But the Republicans are certainly fractured here. In some ways I agree with them that from my reading Obamacare has its flaws and the law as written has some holes in it. Also the affordable health care is interesting...it is 4 tiered and for a family making 75k a year you can pay anywhere from 200 to 1000 per month....that is a lot of money.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Groove, the United States has been shut down 17 times since,what, 1999. This is just media. But the Republicans are certainly fractured here. In some ways I agree with them that from my reading Obamacare has its flaws and the law as written has some holes in it. Also the affordable health care is interesting...it is 4 tiered and for a family making 75k a year you can pay anywhere from 200 to 1000 per month....that is a lot of money.


Talked to one single individual in his mid-fifties. His premiums will be jumping from 375/month to 795/month. I believe this has a $10,000 per year deductible as well.

He is not a Republirat supporter by any stretch of the imagination. Many smaller companies faced with similar increases are finding backhanded ways to dump health care responsibility onto their workers. Either by making them contract or reducing their hours.

I suspect if congressmen did not enjoy Canadian style health insurance, and had to make do with what ordinary Americans deal with, Obamacare would be rapidly vaporized and replaced with something usable.

OTOH the insurance companies who wrote the bill are laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Groove, the United States has been shut down 17 times since,what, 1999. This is just media. But the Republicans are certainly fractured here. In some ways I agree with them that from my reading Obamacare has its flaws and the law as written has some holes in it. Also the affordable health care is interesting...it is 4 tiered and for a family making 75k a year you can pay anywhere from 200 to 1000 per month....that is a lot of money.


This is one of the main problems with the "law." The government determines what must go into each private health care policy--for example, coverage of dependent "children" to age 26, then crows that the private insurers are raising rates and only the federal government can solve it.

Obama is clearly in violation of the US Constitution in granting Obamacare waivers to special interests from the Oval Office by fiat. All the Republicans are demanding is that all Americans receive the same equality--Obama must grant these waivers to everyone for a full year.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Talked to one single individual in his mid-fifties. His premiums will be jumping from 375/month to 795/month. I believe this has a $10,000 per year deductible as well.
> 
> He is not a Republirat supporter by any stretch of the imagination. Many smaller companies faced with similar increases are finding backhanded ways to dump health care responsibility onto their workers. Either by making them contract or reducing their hours.
> 
> I suspect if congressmen did not enjoy Canadian style health insurance, and had to make do with what ordinary Americans deal with, Obamacare would be rapidly vaporized and replaced with something usable.
> 
> OTOH the insurance companies who wrote the bill are laughing all the way to the bank.


Oh here comes more unsubstantiated anecdotes. Funny enough, non of my family members or large number of colleagues and friends south of the border have found this. At all. But that doesn't prove much either. We've heard nonsense from the massive rise in insurance costs, to how unconstitutional it is (even though the supreme court ruled it constitutional, but hey whatever eh). 



Rps said:


> Groove, the United States has been shut down 17 times since,what, 1999. This is just media. But the Republicans are certainly fractured here. In some ways I agree with them that from my reading Obamacare has its flaws and the law as written has some holes in it. Also the affordable health care is interesting...it is 4 tiered and for a family making 75k a year you can pay anywhere from 200 to 1000 per month....that is a lot of money.


No question the bill is likely flawed, expecting an unflawed bill when it comes to something like this is like expecting the impossible. But I do know a number of people who didn't have health insurance who now will be able to. Admittedly I have researched the bill myself enough to comment a lot further on it. But it seems to me, that the republicans, fractured or no, tried to get ideological on this and it could blow up on them.


----------



## eMacMan

Groove, I talked to the individual personally and at length. He manages a good sized chain hotel, but even so is contract labour. Since I stayed in that establishment for over a month the previous year I got to know this individual quite well and am willing to take him at his word, a courtesy I do not extend to any politician. I assure you the doubling of his rates is not unsubstantiated.

He did have three or four months advance notice. I suspect you will hear a lot more of these stories come November when the next phase actually kicks in.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Groove, I talked to the individual personally and at length. He manages a good sized chain hotel, but even so is contract labour. Since I stayed in that establishment for over a month the previous year I got to know this individual quite well and am willing to take him at his word, a courtesy I do not extend to any politician. I assure you the doubling of his rates is not unsubstantiated.
> 
> He did have three or four months advance notice. I suspect you will hear a lot more of these stories come November when the next phase actually kicks in.


There are enough of these stories made public to substantiate the effect. However, when the AFL-CIO says that the plan substantially undermines the concept of full-time employment in America, there is something wrong.

Had Obama merely offered some sort of cheap policy to the unwillingly uninsured, this debacle would never have occurred.


----------



## Rps

Groove, there is a market website where you can Register and get your monthly payments...check it out. What I see happening is companies will just drop healthcare. As a bebfit and this will force employees into the govt plan. But it won't make companies turn its staff into part time.... That movement began long before,


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> But it won't make companies turn its staff into part time.... That movement began long before,


It's happening as we speak, and will save companies millions in Obamacare fees.

money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=c7c2d8c0-db3c-48e3-95bd-db7a4da2ef26

Obamacare, tepid US growth fuel part-time hiring


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Groove, I talked to the individual personally and at length. He manages a good sized chain hotel, but even so is contract labour. Since I stayed in that establishment for over a month the previous year I got to know this individual quite well and am willing to take him at his word, a courtesy I do not extend to any politician. I assure you the doubling of his rates is not unsubstantiated.
> 
> He did have three or four months advance notice. I suspect you will hear a lot more of these stories come November when the next phase actually kicks in.





Rps said:


> Groove, there is a market website where you can Register and get your monthly payments...check it out. What I see happening is companies will just drop healthcare. As a bebfit and this will force employees into the govt plan. But it won't make companies turn its staff into part time.... That movement began long before,


I'll be interested to hear more facts as they become available. So far, much of the drivel I've gotten from repp... er, tea party propaganda has been pretty much nonsense, it's difficult to wade through all of the catastrophe/unconstitutional yammering to really get a sense of what's happening.

I do know a great number of people in the US, both poor, and business owners from having been down there for years, but even with that most of its anecdotal, and based on whatever their position is for now. I have no doubt this is an imperfect plan as I said. But let's face it, what I know of healthcare stateside, (anyone who complains of waiting times here should actually experience waiting in emerg as I have several times down there...) it was far from anything utopian.


----------



## eMacMan

Agreed that prior to Obama Care the US healthcare system was a total nightmare, except for the Super-elite and/or Congressmen and Senators.

That said I believe that Obama Care was as bad as they could possibly make it (for consumers). Health Insurance Industry reps sat at the right hand of the committee chairman as Obama Care was being hammered out. Single Payer advocates were completely excluded from the meetings. 

As intended the result is a system skewed to benefit the Health Insurance Companies at the expense of consumers. I strongly suspect this bill was deliberately written this badly with the intent/hope of discouraging Americans from asking for a decent health care plan. 

The truth is the US can afford either its wars or to take care of its own. It cannot afford both and it is painfully obvious which reality the puppet masters prefer.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The truth is the US can afford either its wars or to take care of its own.


That's a false dichotomy. The US needs to stop pursuing foreign wars and wasting money so Americans can afford to take care of themselves.


----------



## CubaMark

*It's finally happened. MacFury and I agree on something.*


----------



## CubaMark

*Government Shutdown - The Reign Of Morons Is Here*

_We have elected an ungovernable collection of snake-handlers, Bible-bangers, ignorami, bagmen and outright frauds, a collection so ungovernable that it insists the nation be ungovernable, too. We have elected people to govern us who do not believe in government.

We have elected a national legislature in which Louie Gohmert and Michele Bachmann have more power than does the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who has been made a piteous spectacle in the eyes of the country and doesn't seem to mind that at all. 

We have elected a national legislature in which the true power resides in a cabal of vandals, a nihilistic brigade that believes that its opposition to a bill directing millions of new customers to the nation's insurance companies is the equivalent of standing up the the Nazis in 1938, to the bravery of the passengers on Flight 93 on September 11, 2001, and to Mel Gibson's account of the Scottish Wars of Independence in the 13th Century. 

We have elected a national legislature that looks into the mirror and sees itself already cast in marble.

We did this. We looked at our great legacy of self-government and we handed ourselves over to the reign of morons._​
(Esquire)


----------



## CubaMark

Australia had a government shutdown once. In the end, the queen fired everyone in Parliament.


----------



## Macfury

The shutdowns are a normal part of U.S. government, used sparingly, but often by Democrats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown


----------



## groovetube

telling it like it is. The hypocrisy of the righteous right who thinks allowing government mandated probes in women is ok, but then produces a commercial spoofing it because they don't like Obamacare. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9E8WVLhVzQ#t


----------



## FeXL

Showing why they were heroes then & why they're heroes now...

WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial



> A group of World War II veterans in an Honor Flight group Tuesday knocked over barriers imposed during the government shutdown at the WWII Memorial in Washington, D.C., to get inside.


----------



## FeXL

Being Given The Business...



> Did you notice who Obama threatened when he wasn't getting his way on raising the debt ceiling? He threatened to not pay:
> 
> - Social Security Retirees
> 
> - Military Retirees
> 
> - Social Security
> 
> - Disability
> 
> and
> 
> -Federal Retirees.


----------



## BigDL

riotwire said:


> A Psychological Assessment
> 
> An assessment
> 
> In this international expert’s opinion, U.S. suffers from various mental maladies
> 
> Date of consultation: Sept. 11, 2013
> 
> Patient: America, United States of
> 
> Age: 237
> 
> Consulting physician: United Nations,M.D.
> 
> Past psychiatric history:
> 
> Patient experienced traumatic birth in 1776 involving dramatic separation from mother country. Unsuccessful suicide attempt in 1861. Long history of alcohol use, although America was able to maintain sobriety for the 13 year period 1920-1933. Ongoing severe addiction to foreign oil.



The United States of America: A Psychological Assement


----------



## Sonal

Senator Warren's take:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

Senator Warren is an idiot and a liar (Indian heritage anyone?) with no sense of history. The Republicans have offered to fund everything but Obamacare. This has nothing to do with birth control. If Obamacare is "the law of the land" then why is Obama handing out waivers by fiat. Everyone deserves the same treatment under the law.

I love the idea that the Republicans are supposedly trying to sink the economy. Obama needs help with that?


----------



## groovetube

Sonal said:


> Senator Warren's take:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


It's all Obama's fault that the religious right's flying monkeys brought this down.

As I said, the republican's hypocrisy on this one is clear. Government control over women's bodies when think it appropriate.


----------



## eMacMan

I think this would resolve itself in a big hurry if we stopped paying Congress and their staff for the duration. Might not be a bad idea to stop paying the Whitehouse staff as well.


----------



## Sonal

Andrew Sullivan's take.

The Nullification Party « The Dish


----------



## Sonal

Given that it can't take effect now, it's a bit grandstand-y.... still, good idea.

Rick Nolan, Dem Rep, Introduces Bill Blocking Congressional Pay During Government Shutdown


----------



## groovetube

grand idea.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Andrew Sullivan's take.
> 
> The Nullification Party « The Dish


More to the point_how could Obama, who once had a supermajority, fail to pass his own legislation? The Republicans need to shut this man down on Obamacare until the law applies equally to all--no waivers, or all waivers.


----------



## Macfury

Sonal said:


> Given that it can't take effect now, it's a bit grandstand-y.... still, good idea.
> 
> Rick Nolan, Dem Rep, Introduces Bill Blocking Congressional Pay During Government Shutdown


That's a bit of embarrassing theatre. If it passes, so what? If it doesn't, so what?

The Senate just passed itself an Obamacare waiver for senators and their staff. I'd be more impressed if they renounced that.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Obamacare phones offered to health insurance buyers



> In Tennessee, those shopping on the new health insurance co-ops could end up with more than just some health insurance. They might even walk away with a free smartphone.


Insurance Manager: ‘We Have Yet To Have Someone Successfully Register On The Marketplace’



> Overloaded websites and jammed phone lines frustrated consumers for a second day as they tried to sign up for health insurance under the nation’s historic health care overhaul.


It was hackers wot dunnit!!!

Newest Excuse for ObamaCare Website Failures: It Was Hackers or Something



> It wasn’t hackers, you idiots. It was drive-by rubbernecking to look at the wreckage. It’s so obvious as this mess began Tuesday people wanted to see what a trainwreck it was so out of curiosity many people went on to these sites. Everyone knew it would be a mess, so the extra traffic likely created an even bigger one. But that doesn’t explain why they’re still not working two days later.


Shocker: Democrats Wildly Overstate Number of Visitors to CA ObamaCare Exchange



> Aw, how cute: They merely misspoke. I can see how that is. Five million sounds just like 645,000. Easy mistake. But it was still awesome!


And, to sum:

Understanding Interest In Obamacare



> Amazing how a thug government forcing people to purchase a product with threats of fines and harassment by the IRS, and then sending them to broken web sites where they reload ten times before they give up can increase their hit count.


Yeah...


----------



## FeXL

On the shutdown (or, as the progressives like to call it, It's all the Republicans' fault!!!) and other issues.

If The Government' Shut Down, How Come I'm Workin' So Hard? Open Thread



> Overall, the statistics might surprise: *Of the 17 shutdowns in America’s history, Democrats controlled the House during 15 and had charge of both chambers during eight.* Five shutdowns happened under unified government! This makes sense. Government shutdowns are caused by legitimate and welcome disagreement between equal branches. They are certainly more likely to happen in divided government, but it is not a prerequisite.


Bold mine.

Further:



> Are leftists' so excitable and lunatic about their Personal Political Brand precisely because society and culture are so fragmented? That is, without being _told_ by an authoritarian or at least paternalistic power structure _what they must be and how they must derive meaning in their lives,_ do they reach out to claw at any possible means of self-identificiation and validation?


Italics from the link.

Questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Further on locking WWII vet's out of an open, public, unfenced, open air park not operated by the National Park Service.

Obama admin. knew about WWII veterans’ request and rejected it




> Palazzo, a Gulf War Marine veteran who has participated in all five of the Honor Flights, blames the White House for making it harder on veterans and playing politics. “At first I thought it was a huge bureaucratic oversight,” Palazzo told The Daily Caller, “but having talked with the officials I can’t help but think this was politically motivated. Honor Flights, which bring WWII veterans to the nation’s memorials, are planned a year in advance and cost anywhere between $80,000 to $100,000. How low can you get with playing politics over our nation’s veterans?”


How low? Watch him. You ain't seen nothing, yet.

McDonald’s Employee Admits Being Paid $15 to Protest WW2 Veterans



> Then, remarkably, a guy carrying a sign passed by wearing a McDonald’s employee shirt, which I noted. I then began asking them how much they had been paid to protest, at which point the guy wearing the McDonald’s shirt came back and admitted he had been paid $15.


Storming the Barricades in Washington



> Americans are justifiably angry over the political game being played by the Obama administration to barricade the World War II Memorial in Washington. And they should be. *Under federal law, there is no justifiable reason for closing the memorial.*


Bold from the link.

Further:



> *There are no legal or budget reasons whatsoever for the memorial to be barricaded, shut down, and fenced off* — other than President Obama’s desire to engage in political theatrics intended to annoy as many members of the public as possible and blame conservatives who are trying to stop the President’s unfair, unaffordable, and unworkable health-care law.


Bold from the link.

And, the ultimate irony:

Shutdown overreach: More personnel sent to WWII memorial than Benghazi; Park Service closes park it doesn't run 

More personnel to shut down a public park than they sent to Benghazi.



> Pointing to Park Service claims that parks have to be closed because the agency can’t afford staff during the government closure, Eberly wrote: “*What utter crap. We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today*. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm. And if you were to park on the grass and visit on your own, you run the risk of being arrested. *Of course, that will cost the NPS staff salaries to police the Farm against intruders while leaving it open will cost them nothing.”*


Bold mine.

Quite possibly the saddest photo I've ever seen. And the most damning.



> Now, for those who aren't aware, *this memorial is in an open-air park, it was paid for with private funds, and it is unattended.* According to its website, it is open to the public 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
> 
> That is, until the Obama administration doesn't get its way.


Bold mine.

The petulant genius that is BHO...


----------



## Macfury

Saw Dr. Drew Pinsky was on _Anderson Cooper 222_ who said that many of his patients have neither the patience, interest or ability to sign onto the Internet to be forced to buy insurance.



> PINSKY: There's a hubristic part of this, which is the idea that people who are uninsured can go online. I can't get my healthy, educated young males to go online and sign up for any insurance. My uninsured, uneducated, perhaps stricken-resourced population to get on line? That's hubris to say, "Oh, just go online and sign up!"
> 
> There's really another interesting layer to this that people aren't talking about. Today, I often spend a lot of my time finding resources for people who don't have insurance. So today I had three calls. I said, "Good news." (bangs table) "You can sign up for Obamacare today." Not interested. Not so interested in spending money. Just want care. To get people that have never done this before used to the idea that, not only they have access, they can get this coverage, they must do this --
> COOPER: Because the people you're talking to feel that they can fall back on the social safety net --
> PINSKY: The safety net.
> COPER: -- emergency rooms visits and whatever.
> PINSKY: They're used to using the safety net, which is unfortunate. We've almost acculturated ourselves to this safety net.


They supported Obamacare because they thought it was FREE!


----------



## groovetube

U.S. government shutdown stokes Republican party civil war: Neil Macdonald - World - CBC News

The quote "“I’m absolutely thrilled,” said Michelle Bachmann earlier this week, as the clock ticked toward shutdown. “This is exactly what we had hoped for.""

should pretty much speak for itself.


----------



## Macfury

Hilarious words from the president:

Obama: Too many Americans blame both parties for shutdown | The Daily Caller



> President Barack Obama repeatedly complained on Thursday that the public is skeptical about his decision to shut down the government rather than accept the GOP’s Obamacare reform proposals.
> 
> -----------
> 
> *Obama and the Democrats in the Senate have shot down all the funding bills*, while demanding the GOP give up its popular reforms to the Obamacare program.
> 
> Those reforms include ending a job-killing tax on the high-tech companies that made medical devices, ending the special health care subsidies for White House and congressional staff and providing a one-year delay to the requirement that individuals buy insurance regardless of their youth, health, education and marriage plans, or other spending priorities.


Obama could have the entire government funded--other than Obamacare--but instead chooses to grandstand.


----------



## groovetube

always good to put into perspective, the sort that is causing major crap :lmao:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## eMacMan

Of course if Congress was really in the least concerned about the American Taxpayer, they would start by defunding the NSA. 

Not gonna happen of course because like J Edgar, the NSAs biggest most complete files are on politicians and wannabe politicians. 

Or to put it bluntly: If you can't bribe them, blackmail them.


----------



## FeXL

Further confirmation that Obama's shutdown is nothing more than the histrionics of a spoiled little brat...

Arizona Gov. Brewer, local businesses fight to reopen Grand Canyon



> With the partial suspension of U.S. government services showing no signs of ending, tourists will continue to be turned away from the Grand Canyon, despite a push by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer and local businesses to reopen the state's signature national park.
> 
> Brewer wants the iconic park reopened and has offered to pay for it with state money, but her proposal was rejected Thursday by a park official who said that as long as the federal government remains shut down, such a plan isn't an option.


Further:



> "It's ridiculous," said Arizona House Speaker Andy Tobin. "Why wouldn't the federal government let local communities or states assist in keeping some of these things open?"


'Cause he's holdin' his breath until he turns blue...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Further confirmation that Obama's shutdown is nothing more than the histrionics of a spoiled little brat...
> 
> Arizona Gov. Brewer, local businesses fight to reopen Grand Canyon
> 
> 
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause he's holdin' his breath until he turns blue...


Having recently paid $25 for a 1 week pass to US National Parks, it seems obvious that the larger parks generate enough revenue to make closing them down a net money loser. 

In areas where Parks and fall colours meet, closing them down at this time of the year makes a good case for having all of Congress committed to an insane asylum.

OTOH Glacier Nat'l Park and Rocky Mtn. Nat'l Park were about ready to shut down for the season. So it would have made more sense to shut these down on schedule.

Cut off Congressional salaries and perks and this will end in a big hurry.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Of course if Congress was really in the least concerned about the American Taxpayer, they would start by defunding the NSA.


That's the sort of stuff the guy in the video above wants to defund.


----------



## groovetube

yep.


----------



## Macfury

Now we need a 50-word essay proving that the poster can explain it.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> yep.


Lukovich nails it again.


----------



## i-rui

Hopefully this will just split the republicans into 2 parties. Let the Tea Party exist as a minority fringe with no power where they belong.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Hopefully this will just split the republicans into 2 parties. Let the Tea Party exist as a minority fringe with no power where they belong.


The Tea Party will take over the Republican Party, while the Country Club Republicans and RINOs will flee to the Democrat sinking ship.


----------



## Dr.G.

i-rui said:


> Hopefully this will just split the republicans into 2 parties. Let the Tea Party exist as a minority fringe with no power where they belong.





Macfury said:


> The Tea Party will take over the Republican Party, while the Country Club Republicans and RINOs will flee to the Democrat sinking ship.


This would be very interesting, and very helpful for the Democratic Party. It would help with their diversity of beliefs ............ so long as the CCRs and RINOs don't become like the Dixiecrats .............. when they are Democrats in name only but vote to obstruct many of the positions that the Democratic Party advocates. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

ultimately the tea party taking over the republican party would pretty much be the last nails in that coffin, that much is obvious.

sure, let it happen!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> ultimately the tea party taking over the republican party would pretty much be the last nails in that coffin, that much is obvious.
> 
> sure, let it happen!


I can't see the entire Republican party being absorbed by the Tea Party. The TP has about 40 safe districts in the US for Congress. If they could get five to six times that amount, they would be in the majority. However, should this happen, once the infrastructure of the US starts to crumble without various government programs and regulations to support clean air/water/food, etc., people would start to see the folly of voting for them. Once the economy suffers, and various agencies cannot provide programs for many, there will start to be civil unrest. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

True. A small minority of people tend to vote for this freedom stuff when it's safe, and there's government services funded for them.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> True. A small minority of people tend to vote for this freedom stuff when it's safe, and there's government services funded for them.


I am all for "freedom", gt, but I do feel that there is an important role for government, be it on a federal, state or municipal level. True, it is nice to consider oneself a libertarian rugged individualist, devoid of most of the impositions that government regulations impose on the people of a country, but those days are long gone. You and I can't go out and stake our claim on land in unclaimed territories anymore. Then there is the notion of the "common good". I fear that these views will bring a firestorm of opposition upon me from some, but this is how I feel. We are either in this together or we allow some to fall by the wayside, some to step on others to get to the top, and hope that we will be safe in this time of turmoil. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

well as long as they are still wearing 3 pointed hats and running around with muskets yelling for liberty or whatever, you likely can take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> well as long as they are still wearing 3 pointed hats and running around with muskets yelling for liberty or whatever, you likely can take it with a grain of salt.


Well, the original tea party movement was at a time when Americans were trying to throw off British tyranny. Those were different times than now. When I taught high school social studies I showed my students the Disney movie "Johnny Tremain, The Sons of Liberty". However, I did mention that if some companies were not restrained and regulated, that the "liberty tree" would be cut down for wood or to make room for a mall.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvpZxMfKaU[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOuS_4HVbLw]Johnny Tremain, The Sons of Liberty - Disney, 1957 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I can't see the entire Republican party being absorbed by the Tea Party. The TP has about 40 safe districts in the US for Congress. If they could get five to six times that amount, they would be in the majority. However, should this happen, once the infrastructure of the US starts to crumble without various government programs and regulations to support clean air/water/food, etc., people would start to see the folly of voting for them.


These failures are already occurring under the weight of liberal government oppression


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Shutdown...

The Great Government ShutDown Is Becoming Public Relations Debacle For Regime



> The Honor Flight of Northwest Ohio President Lee Armstrong was told that his group of WWII veterans would face arrest if they tried to cross the barricades.
> 
> He says they are considering going ahead with the trip even if the government is still on shutdown, but when he called the parks service, he was told they would face arrest. *“I said, are you kidding me? You’re going to arrest a 90/91-year-old veteran from seeing his memorial? If it wasn’t for them it wouldn’t be there. She said, ‘That’s correct sir.’”*​
> When Armstrong asked for her name, he says she did not give it to him and then promptly hung up the phone.


Bold from the link.

Park Service ranger: “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”



> The Park Service appears to be closing streets on mere whim and caprice. The rangers even closed the parking lot at Mount Vernon, where the plantation home of George Washington is a favorite tourist destination. That was after they barred the new World War II Memorial on the Mall to veterans of World War II. But the government does not own Mount Vernon; it is privately owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies’ Association. The ladies bought it years ago to preserve it as a national memorial. The feds closed access to the parking lots this week, even though the lots are jointly owned with the Mount Vernon ladies. The rangers are from the government, and they’re only here to help.
> 
> *“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”*​


Bold mine.

Nice.

And, for your Saturday evening smile:

Government Shuts Down, Nation Descends into Riots, Looting and Cannibalism.



> "The government shut down! We can do anything we like," shouted Sam Hasbley of Grassley, Iowa, while tearing the tag off a mattress despite an explicit warning label forbidding such a dangerous course of action. "Tear yours off. The government is shut down. It can't stop you."


----------



## FeXL

Some perspective...

Obama Rewrites Debt-Limit History 



> As the finger pointing begins, it is important to keep this history in mind. All told, *congressional Democrats have been responsible for 60% of the "dirty" increases when the debt limit was raised alongside other legislative items.* Republicans were responsible for 15%. The remaining 25% occurred during divided Congresses.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

On those pristine (white-washed?) unemployment numbers...

Real Jobs Numbers Are Far Worse Than Official Numbers Suggest



> Not surprisingly, the answer we get differs greatly from the government's data. This month's survey, completed Thursday night, indicated that 47.9 million Americans are looking for work. No, that's not a misprint: 47.9 million.
> 
> Out of a workforce of 154 million, that yields *a gross unemployment rate of 31%.* Among all households, 26% have at least one member looking for work.


Bold mine.

Yup...


----------



## FeXL

News Flash: Key West Florida!



> The U.S. Navy intercepted three boatloads of people off the coast of Florida today. This placed the Navy in an awkward position, as the boats were not heading to, but away from Florida toward Cuba.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> On those pristine (white-washed?) unemployment numbers...
> 
> Real Jobs Numbers Are Far Worse Than Official Numbers Suggest


Yeah, but they're off the unemployment insurance roles, so Obama can sweep them under the rug. There are fewer people employed--in total--than when he began his devastating term of office.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> This would be very interesting, and very helpful for the Democratic Party. It would help with their diversity of beliefs ............ so long as the CCRs and RINOs don't become like the Dixiecrats .............. when they are Democrats in name only but vote to obstruct many of the positions that the Democratic Party advocates. We shall see.


Given their way, they would all just vote for ever larger government until the entire filthy, rotten ship of state capsizes under its own weight.

However, no other party has behaved in such an obviously racist fashion as the Democrats. Calling them Dixiecrats is mere sleight of hand.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am all for "freedom", gt, but I do feel that there is an important role for government, be it on a federal, state or municipal level. True, it is nice to consider oneself a libertarian rugged individualist, devoid of most of the impositions that government regulations impose on the people of a country, but those days are long gone. You and I can't go out and stake our claim on land in unclaimed territories anymore. Then there is the notion of the "common good". I fear that these views will bring a firestorm of opposition upon me from some, but this is how I feel. We are either in this together or we allow some to fall by the wayside, some to step on others to get to the top, and hope that we will be safe in this time of turmoil. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


There's that dirty and difficult word "freedom," again. When you speak of the obligations of others, you are really speaking of your own personally chosen obligations and somehow projecting them onto others. 

We are not all in this together, and I choose who I am together with. Your words remind me of that poor horse in _Animal Farm_.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There's that dirty and difficult word "freedom," again. When you speak of the obligations of others, you are really speaking of your own personally chosen obligations and somehow projecting them onto others.
> 
> We are not all in this together, and I choose who I am together with. Your words remind me of that poor horse in _Animal Farm_.


Well, Boxer was loyal and strong ........... but I do know more than four letters of the alphabet due to four university degrees. Hopefully, I shall be spared the glue factory in the end.

Still, if a disaster does strike your area of TO, whether you like it or not, you are in it with your neighbors. If you want to reject any help from neighbors, the Red Cross, the civil or provincial or federal agencies, that is your choice. You may also choose not to help any of your neighbors in this situation. So, you have this freedom. However, if you want to be a part of TO, Ontario and Canada, there are still responsibilities you must shoulder, like it or not (e.g., paying taxes). Granted, we all have gripes as to how those tax dollars are spent, which is why one of the responsibilities of Canadian citizenship is to make an informed vote.

So, feel free to raise your fist to the heavens this winter and dare Mother Nature not to snow on your home, and hope that the mayor of TO does not need to call out the Canadian Armed Forces to help clear the streets of this snow.

Bonne chance et paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

I suspect there is a lot of fist raising. I am my own! I don't need anything from anyone. Well, except the clean water from my taps, along with all the research and protections to ensure it's safety, maybe the relative safety of walking down the street safely. Perhaps the paramedics should heaven forbid I have a heart attack, well there's that. Hmm, there might be a few hundred other things.

But I don't need anything!

I find the laments of libertarians no less amusing than the true socialists.


----------



## MacDoc

Hehe
Millions Flee Obamacare : The New Yorker


----------



## Macfury

It's the Obama loyalists who are going to be fleeing soon enough when they see how much this is costing them! And it ain't free!

How are things in green-free Australia these days, MacD?


----------



## Dr.G.

MacDoc said:


> Hehe
> Millions Flee Obamacare : The New Yorker


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty man with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and his name

President Obama. From his beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; his mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries he

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

For I shall give them all Obamacare."

To this tyranny, the Tea Party advocates will rally round their standard bearers.

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." Thomas Paine


"These are the times that try men's' souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; bur that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny.....is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." Thomas Paine

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
Thomas Jefferson

Actually, I believe in many of these statements.


----------



## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> Hehe
> Millions Flee Obamacare : The New Yorker


So many are fleeing because of the cost, that they crashed the website that tells them the cost and signed up!

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> Hehe
> Millions Flee Obamacare : The New Yorker


Hehe:

Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits' - Forbes



> On October 1, Obamacare’s subsidized insurance exchanges went live. Most of the exchange websites crashed on the first day, a development that led some of the law’s supporters to conclude that there was overwhelming demand for Obamacare’s insurance products. But the Obama administration isn’t releasing figures as to the number of Americans who have actually signed up for exchange-based coverage. “Very, very few people that we’re aware of have enrolled in the federal exchange,” said one anonymous insurance industry official to the Washington Post. *“We are talking single digits.”*
> 
> Exchange agencies walk back high-traffic hype
> 
> Other exchanges have had to pare down their initial statistics. Covered California, that state’s subsidized insurance exchange, initially claimed that its website had received 5 million hits on October 1. They later had to revise that number down 87 percent, to 645,000. *KUSI-TV in San Diego is reporting that not one policy has yet been sold on the California exchange*.


----------



## groovetube

Robert Fulford: Slaves to

Interesting read. Nothing particularly surprising however.



> It was a nationally televised demonstration of what psychologists call “avoidance behaviour.” In this perverse competition, Mitt Romney turned out to be the champion. Keeping one eye on the base during the primaries and the presidential election, he made himself acceptable by denying his past accomplishments and many of his long-held opinions. While the base grudgingly tolerated him, he destroyed any hope he had of becoming president.
> 
> As for the base itself, its members now spend their energy cheering on the militant Republican congressmen who are holding the U.S. government for ransom. For the GOP, it may well be a politically suicidal move. But the base follows its heart, not the polls.
> 
> The Republicans who stand for re-election in the 2014 mid-term elections, alas, will not enjoy that luxury.


----------



## FeXL

From groove's link:



> His base includes millions of Americans who believe the Sierra Club knows best on all such matters. (Otherwise, why would those Hollywood stars follow its advice?) Just the sight of Daryl Hannah getting handcuffed in a protest, golden tresses streaming down her back, proves there must be virtue in the anti-Keystone cause. No one in the base needs more evidence.


Perfect summary.

If the movie stars say it is so, then it must be so. As noted, no surprises.

Explains much, don't it...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> From groove's link:


Amazing to see some people undermining their own arguments with the links they present.


----------



## groovetube

Republicans Finally Confronting Reality: They

The headline says it all. The rest is mostly what has been written in many places.

Republican supporters panic sticken to change the channel. 

On a personal note, I did speak to a few people on the west coast who enrolled in the affordable health program, quite happy with the offerings. Always difficult to cut through the reality distortion fields.


----------



## FeXL

Yup.

Spoiled brat to the end...


----------



## CubaMark

*Always interesting to see how the Right and the Left see the same thing, differently...*


_At its core, the dispute over the budget and the debt ceiling isn't complicated at all. But it is full of misconceptions and urban myths. Here are the 10 facts worth remembering past all the obfuscation:

1. Democrats have already agreed to fund the government at Republican levels.

2. Despite what you might have heard, there have only been two serious government shutdowns in recent history, and both were the result of Republican ultimatums.

3. Democrats in the Senate have been begging the House to negotiate over the budget for the past six months, but Republicans have refused.

4. That's because Republicans wanted to wait until they had either a government shutdown or a debt ceiling breach as leverage, something they've been very clear about all along.

5. Republicans keep talking about compromise, but they've offered nothing in return for agreeing to their demands—except to keep the government intact if they get their way.

6. The public is very strongly opposed to using a government shutdown to stop Obamacare.

7. Contrary to Republican claims, the deficit is not increasing—it peaked in 2009 and has been dropping ever since, declining by $200 billion last year with another $450 billion drop projected this year.

8. A long government shutdown is likely to seriously hurt economic growth, with a monthlong shutdown projected to slash GDP in the fourth quarter by 1 percentage point and reduce employment by over a million jobs.

9. No, Democrats have not used debt ceiling hostage taking in the past to force presidents to accept their political agenda.

10. This whole dispute is about the Republican Party fighting to make sure the working poor don't have access to affordable health care. _​
(MotherJones)


----------



## Macfury

duplicate post


----------



## Macfury

Hiding under the skirts of lefty blogs may provide satisfaction to some, but in the real world:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/u...ges-lawmakers-to-raise-debt-ceiling.html?_r=0



> Speaker John A. Boehner stood his ground on Sunday alongside the most conservative Republicans in Congress, insisting that the House would not vote to finance and reopen the government or raise the nation’s borrowing limit without concessions from President Obama on the health care law.
> 
> “The fact is, this fight was going to come one way or the other,” Mr. Boehner said on the ABC News program “This Week,” adding, “We’re in the fight.”


Nice to see him do what's right, instead of folding in front of effete media pundits.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> *Always interesting to see how the Right and the Left see the same thing, differently...*
> 
> 
> _At its core, the dispute over the budget and the debt ceiling isn't complicated at all. But it is full of misconceptions and urban myths. Here are the 10 facts worth remembering past all the obfuscation:
> 
> 1. Democrats have already agreed to fund the government at Republican levels.
> 
> 2. Despite what you might have heard, there have only been two serious government shutdowns in recent history, and both were the result of Republican ultimatums.
> 
> 3. Democrats in the Senate have been begging the House to negotiate over the budget for the past six months, but Republicans have refused.
> 
> 4. That's because Republicans wanted to wait until they had either a government shutdown or a debt ceiling breach as leverage, something they've been very clear about all along.
> 
> 5. Republicans keep talking about compromise, but they've offered nothing in return for agreeing to their demands—except to keep the government intact if they get their way.
> 
> 6. The public is very strongly opposed to using a government shutdown to stop Obamacare.
> 
> 7. Contrary to Republican claims, the deficit is not increasing—it peaked in 2009 and has been dropping ever since, declining by $200 billion last year with another $450 billion drop projected this year.
> 
> 8. A long government shutdown is likely to seriously hurt economic growth, with a monthlong shutdown projected to slash GDP in the fourth quarter by 1 percentage point and reduce employment by over a million jobs.
> 
> 9. No, Democrats have not used debt ceiling hostage taking in the past to force presidents to accept their political agenda.
> 
> 10. This whole dispute is about the Republican Party fighting to make sure the working poor don't have access to affordable health care. _​
> (MotherJones)


It's been made quite clear that the republicans have been planning this for quite some time now, as their big fight to repeal Obamacare. Reality hasn't hit them yet that the public strongly disagrees with this, even if some don't like Obamacare, and this is only going to get much uglier on the republicans if this continues, and the economy suffers, with large job losses.

In the right's dreams will Obama wear the blame on this one. :baby:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Always interesting to see how the Right and the Left see the same thing, differently...*
> 
> (MotherJones)


CM, that's about the saddest piece of doublethink I've seen in a long time. I'll take it apart later, provided you're willing to stand behind this gobbledygook. If you've just posted this because it came from _Mother Jones_, and you don't really have the ability to go through it point by point, give me fair warning.


----------



## CubaMark

The only thing I have to "stand behind" is my statement in bold... As to the content of the position of the Democrats or Republicans on the issue, I haven't been following this closely enough to provide informed comment. I'm just enjoying the show, the spectacle of the 'world's greatest democracy' slicing its own throat.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The only thing I have to "stand behind" is my statement in bold... As to the content of the position of the Democrats or Republicans on the issue, I haven't been following this closely enough to provide informed comment. I'm just enjoying the show, the spectacle of the 'world's greatest democracy' slicing its own throat.


Thanks for the heads-up. The statements you provided were simply wrong, based only on twisted words of people with Euro-envy, and not on substance.

And the world's greatest democracy isn't slicing its own throat over this. Obama already has the U.S. bleeding like a stuck pig. The Republicans may be able to stem the bleeding.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. The statements you provided were simply wrong, based only on twisted words of people with Euro-envy, and not on substance.
> 
> And the world's greatest democracy isn't slicing its own throat over this. Obama already has the U.S. bleeding like a stuck pig. The Republicans may be able to stem the bleeding.


So quickly we forget that Bush II more than doubled the national debt.

The two parties are working in concert to destroy what was once the greatest nation the planet had ever seen.

Reasonably accurate description, except it should be ..._*written by the Health care insurance companies*_, reviewed by a committee that did not understand it,....

Obamacare Summed Up in One Sentence - YouTube

BTW using Screature style reasoning the Republirats are almost entirely responsible for Obushma Care, as they were the ones insisting the bill be written by the health insurance companies.


----------



## groovetube

oh no, the party that took the US down to the worst financial crisis in history can fix it better. :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

Bit of a bump to see if I can get the index to show the latest posts. Go back a page if you have been waiting to see posts beyond GTs latest.


----------



## FeXL

On Fast & Furious.

ATF tries to block whistleblowing agent’s Fast and Furious book



> The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is blocking the main whistleblower in the Fast and Furious case from publishing a book, claiming his retelling of the Mexico “gun-walking” scandal will hurt morale inside the embattled law enforcement agency, according to documents obtained by The Washington Times.


Oh, it's going to hurt morale, is it?

WaaFrickin'Waa...


----------



## FeXL

Further details about and fallout from the shutdown.

First, the hypocrisy:

Obama's Golf Course (on Federal Lands) Somehow Remains Open



> What they say is that the golf course is paid for by private funds.
> 
> But the WWII Memorial was paid for by private funds. They claimed that the need to protect federal lands required barrycading it nevertheless.


Hmmmpfff...

Government Shutdown? 36 Facts Which Prove That Almost Everything Is Still Running



> All of this whining and crying about a "government shutdown" is a total joke. You see, there really is very little reason why this "government shutdown" cannot continue indefinitely because almost everything is still running. 63 percent of all federal workers are still working, and 85 percent of all government activities are still being funded during this "shutdown". Yes, the Obama administration has been making a big show of taking down government websites and blocking off the World War II Memorial, but overall business in Washington D.C. is being conducted pretty much as usual. It turns out that the definition of "essential personnel" has expanded so much over the years that almost everyone is considered "essential" at this point. In fact, this shutdown is such a non-event that even referring to it as a "partial government shutdown" would really be overstating what is actually happening.


White House: We’ll take a short-term deal on the debt ceiling



> Did the White House just blink on the debt-ceiling fight? After weeks of insisting it won’t negotiate on either the budget or the debt ceiling, a top White House adviser said this morning that Barack Obama would sign a short-term lift in the latter to gain more time for a longer-term agreement:


So, it's against the rules for heroes from WWII to visit the national mall. However, it's perfectly acceptable to host an immigration rally at the same location.

Park Service OKs immigration reform rally on 'closed' National Mall



> A planned immigration reform rally will take place on the National Mall on Tuesday even though the site is closed due to the government shutdown.


So, which is it? Is it closed down or open as usual? Or is this just typical vote-pandering to a special interest group?

And these two:

Feds Hold Seniors at Gunpoint During National Park Shutdown



> Feds used “gestapo tactics” to treat senior citizens like terrorists during the shutdown of Yellowstone National park, placing them under armed guard in a locked hotel as panicked tourists thought they had been arrested, vowing never to return to America.


'Gestapo' tactics meet senior citizens at Yellowstone



> Vaillancourt was one of thousands of people who found themselves in a national park as the federal government shutdown went into effect on Oct. 1. For many hours her tour group, which included senior citizen visitors from Japan, Australia, Canada and the United States, were locked in a Yellowstone National Park hotel under armed guard.


There is, however, a sliver of light (and hope)...

America Is Rapidly Approaching Its Date with Destiny



> We have governors of states, brave veterans, and average people defying the federal government. What does this all of this mean? It means that the worm has turned and America is finally beginning to stand up and say no to the tyrants who comprise the minions which serve the central bankers who have hijacked our government. It means that America has just entered a major shift in its attitude towards its government. *The events of civil disobedience, occurring over the past week cannot be overstated.*


Bold mine.


----------



## groovetube

Americans primarily holding Republicans responsible for shut down and debt-limit fight: poll | National Post

Obama's approval rating may not be great... but:



> Most Americans disapprove of the way Obama is handling his job, the poll suggests, with 53% unhappy with his performance and 37% approving of it. *Congress is scraping rock bottom, with a ghastly approval rating of 5%*.


Oh man that's gotta really sting. 5%??? ouch.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Further details about and fallout from the shutdown.


This one killed me:

National Park Service police try to close privately funded Mount Vernon during shutdown



> You can't really hold it against the National Park Service. They've been closing so many parks this week, they probably just got caught up in their own momentum. But the fact remains that, in blocking parking lots to George Washington's Mount Vernon Estate and Gardens, they were technically trying to close private property. Park police blocked the property's lots "due to a misunderstanding over the ownership of the spaces."


----------



## FeXL

Further on Obamacare.

Treasury Secretary Stonewalls When Asked How Many Have Signed Up for Obamacare



> Treasury Secretary Jack Lew refused to answer Fox host Chris Wallace's simple question this morning: How many people have signed up for Obamacare?
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> "Well, it's obviously not my primary area of responsibility," said the treasury secretary.


What a weasel.

Incompetence: Obama Administration Admits Software and Design Defect Plague ObamaCare Website



> They had over three years to design and test this website and clearly have failed miserably. There needs to be an immediate Congressional investigation into who’s behind this gross incompetence and until this is fixed it needs to be taken offline. *They’ve sunk untold millions into this and it’s a colossal disaster.*


Bold mine.

This as opposed to Matt Drudge, from Drudge report.



> drudgereport.com is run by Matt Drudge, who runs the website in his pajamas from his apartment. I’ve visited his website just about every day since the late 20th century. It runs very well. His website has gotten as many as 45 million hits per day.
> 
> On the first day of the Obamacare website, it had 5 million visitors. It could not handle that amount of traffic.


Programming money well spent..

Right Wing Obamacare Myths DEBUNKED



> Man, I hate these stupid, crazy, tea bagging right wingers. So foolish, so uncivilized. They run around screaming like crazed anarchists about how they want to stop Obamacare. Damned idiots don’t realize that the government needs to be involved in our health care decisions; we’re too helpless and feeble to handle it ourselves — unless we’re making the “medical” choice to get an abortion, in which case, THIS IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, YOU GOVERNMENT PIGS. GET OUT! I mean, leave your wallet on the table, ’cause I’m gonna need you to pay for this, but then GET OUT, JERK.


<snort>


----------



## FeXL

There was a post a stretch back from one of the usual suspects about how Obamacare wouldn't have any effect on cutting employee hours because (paraphrasing, 'cause I don't want to look for the painful observations again) "they had always done that in the past anyway".

Horse feathers & bull pucky to the denial...

Half Of Small Businesses Say They'll Cut Worker Hours Because Of Obamacare: Survey



> The conservative-leaning business lobby’s survey had especially bad news for small business hiring. Half of small business owners polled indicated they would either cut employee hours or employ fewer full-time workers to avoid Obamacare's requirement that employees working over 30 hours a week receive employer-provided health insurance, according to the survey. Another 24 percent said they would curb hiring plans to avoid the employer mandate, since it applies only to companies with 50 or more full-time employees.
> 
> Almost half of small businesses said they were concerned about the law in general, up from 42 percent in January.


ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs



> ObamaCare's impact on jobs is hotly debated by politicians and economists. Critics say the Affordable Care Act, with its employer mandate to provide health insurance, gives businesses an incentive to cut workers' hours. This year, report after report has rolled in about employers restricting work hours to fewer than 30 per week — the point where the mandate kicks in. Data also point to a record low workweek in low-wage industries.


Nope. No effect at all...


----------



## FeXL

In Obama’s war on leaks, reporters fight back



> “Whenever I’m asked what is the most manipulative and secretive administration I’ve covered, I always say it’s the one in office now,” Bob Schieffer, CBS News anchor and chief Washington correspondent, told me.


Yeah, so much for all that transparency & accountability he promised...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot Obamacare website debacle.

The Death Spiral Begins



> As a retired computer systems manager, I am always fascinated by large, complex software systems that fail -- such as the Federal ObamaCare "insurance exchange" currently being rolled out at HealthCare.gov.
> 
> This software monstrosity is now in its second week, and most people trying to use it still can't get into the system, or else they can't create an account on it, or their account information is lost. I, and you, can follow this unfolding disaster at any time...


I love the smell of progressive gov't failure in the evening...


----------



## groovetube

You Might Hate Obamacare, But It's Saved These People's Lives

Heard form a number of people in the US, good things about OC. I think the ones so against this are afraid of what might happen if this program is allowed to run long enough for people to realize the naysayers are totally full of *****e.

The sky's gonna come crashin doooooownnnnn! A whole lotta "gonnas" I'm hearing, total crap.


----------



## eMacMan

Rather interesting coincidence. Scanning my SPAM folder in an eMail account which is a SPAM magnet, I notice SPAM activity dropped dramatically (~75% drop) and this seems to coincide with the so-called government shutdown.

Rather frightening to think that US government computers might be the major source of the worlds SPAM.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Heard form a number of people in the US, good things about OC. I think the ones so against this are afraid of what might happen if this program is allowed to run long enough for people to realize the naysayers are totally full of *****e.


Oh, that's rich. There haven't been that many people able to sign up for it yet.

Speaking of full of it...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Oh, that's rich. There haven't been that many people able to sign up for it yet.
> 
> Speaking of full of it...


I am always unmoved by the buffoonish argument "if it saves one person's life, it's worth a trillion dollars." 

You know what--it isn't.


----------



## jef

Macfury said:


> I am always unmoved by the buffoonish argument "if it saves one person's life, it's worth a trillion dollars."
> 
> You know what--it isn't.


...unless that one person is you, of course...


----------



## groovetube

jef said:


> ...unless that one person is you, of course...


Always the way with these freedom fighters! :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

To be fair the main thing Obushma Care does is make health insurance available to a large # of Americans with pre-existing conditions. Whether or not this coverage is affordable seems to vary greatly by state. Certainly many of those with existing private insurance have seen their rates at least double. As to how much of that is Obushma Care and how much pure greed is anyones guess.

AFAIK it does not further supplement Medicare B, which other than the dreaded donut hole, does keep medications affordable for the elderly.

What is not in the least addressed is the nightmare that is medical billing. Typically the hospital, clinic or Doctor; bills at about ten times what they are hoping to be re-imbursed. The respective bean counters typically fight over the numbers for at least 2 or 3 months. Invariably settling at a figure very close to what is laid out in multi-volume rate books published by each of the gadzillions of insurance companies. This bean bag toss adds $Billion$ to the cost of American medical care just in superfluous accountant fees.


----------



## FeXL

James Woods criticizes Obama, says he doesn't expect to find work in Hollywood again



> “This President is a true abomination. To have barricaded the WW2 vets, but allow illegal aliens privilege...” Woods tweeted on Oct. 8.
> 
> But Woods, 66, was just warming up. The actor also called Obama “just vile. A small, small man.”
> 
> ...
> 
> "...I think Barack Obama is a threat to the integrity and future of the Republic. My country first.”


Nice to find an actor who doesn't swallow the kool-aid. You go, Mr. Woods. Hat's off...


----------



## FeXL

Petulant, spoiled brats don't often listen to reason...

Many tried to warn officials of Obamacare website jam



> Major insurers, state health-care officials and Democratic allies repeatedly warned the Obama administration in recent months that the new federal health-insurance exchange had significant problems, according to people familiar with the conversations. Despite those warnings and intense criticism from Republicans, the White House proceeded with an Oct. 1 launch.


----------



## Macfury

jef said:


> ...unless that one person is you, of course...


No. This includes me. I'm more selfless than the lot of you.


----------



## FeXL

Well, that's embarrassing. To us Canucks, too...

Guess How Much We Paid For Obama’s Trainwreck Healthcare Website?



> The reason for this nationwide headache apparently stems from poorly written code, which buckled under the heavy influx of traffic that its engineers and administrators should have seen coming. But the fact that Healthcare.gov can’t do the one job it was built to do isn’t the most infuriating part of this debacle – it’s that we, the taxpayers, seem to have forked up more than *$634 million* of the federal purse to build the digital equivalent of a rock.


Bold mine.

Further:



> If you dig into the link there you’ll find *Canadian company CGI* reaping $342,739,827 while an outfit named Cognosante, Llc received $111,965,760. Ironically, at their site it says they reduce waste, fraud and abuse. You can’t make this stuff up.


Oops...


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> To be fair the main thing Obushma Care does is make health insurance available to a large # of Americans with pre-existing conditions.


By definition it is not insurance then. Insurance is for possible occurrences, not current or imminent needs.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, the iron...

When Will The Obamas Be Evicted From The White House?



> Psychopathic, uncaring government functionaries operating under direct orders from the Barack Obama regime are evicting homeowners whose homes sit on Federal land. The evictions are reportedly made necessary by the theater-of-the-absurd “government shutdown.”


The important question:



> In light of the 14th Amendment’s equal protection clause, should not the Obamas be evicted from the White House?


Wouldn't that be a kick to the midsection...


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> To be fair the main thing Obushma Care does is make health insurance available to a large # of Americans with pre-existing conditions. Whether or not this coverage is affordable seems to vary greatly by state. Certainly many of those with existing private insurance have seen their rates at least double. As to how much of that is Obushma Care and how much pure greed is anyones guess.


It's not a guess. The "Affordable" Care Act forces insurance companies to carry specific policy coverage under specific terms. For example, if you expand coverage by fiat to include "children" up to age 26 (the dear swaddling babes) then your policy just got hiked to cover that!


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> To be fair the main thing Obushma Care does is make health insurance available to a large # of Americans with pre-existing conditions. Whether or not this coverage is affordable seems to vary greatly by state. Certainly many of those with existing private insurance have seen their rates at least double. As to how much of that is Obushma Care and how much pure greed is anyones guess.
> 
> AFAIK it does not further supplement Medicare B, which other than the dreaded donut hole, does keep medications affordable for the elderly.
> 
> What is not in the least addressed is the nightmare that is medical billing. Typically the hospital, clinic or Doctor; bills at about ten times what they are hoping to be re-imbursed. The respective bean counters typically fight over the numbers for at least 2 or 3 months. Invariably settling at a figure very close to what is laid out in multi-volume rate books published by each of the gadzillions of insurance companies. This bean bag toss adds $Billion$ to the cost of American medical care just in superfluous accountant fees.


The truth is, obamacare will live or die by its own merits. If it truly is bad and expensive, then the truth will come out in the near future. No amount of hysterical screaming by all the conservative flying monkeys down south will make obamacare any worse or better in the end. I just find it amusing that the naysayers have already condemned it as a failure mere days after it launched. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

I know, I know.

It's Bush's fault & I'm a racist...

Obama’s national debt rate on track to double



> When Mr. Obama became president in January 2009, the total federal debt stood at $10.6 trillion. This week, it hit $16.7 trillion — an increase of 57 percent. In the same time frame under President George W. Bush, total federal debt rose 38 percent. Under President Clinton, it rose 32 percent.


More:



> “It does not increase our debt,” Mr. Obama said. “It does not grow our deficits. All it does is allow the Treasury Department to pay for what Congress has already spent.”
> 
> *The president rarely mentions that he, by law, approves congressional spending, and his argument glosses over the nation’s burgeoning total debt.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Sone interesting information about Detroit's pension problems.

Detroit's Pension Madness



> I was not entirely prepared for the new revelations about the Detroit trustees’ custom of handing out annual holiday “bonuses” to workers, retirees and the City of Detroit. Between 1985 and 2008, they handed out roughly $1 billion this way. Had they been invested, one estimate says those funds would be worth almost $2 billion today -- or more than half the current shortfall in the funds.


----------



## FeXL

Great new Obamacare ad.

Obamacare


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting that neither party will consider reduced military spending, eliminating NSA (domestic spying) funding, greatly reducing TSA funding. 

Massive savings available with little or no downside other than un-employed government workers. Could even be a healthy first step in restoring The Bill of Rights, which with the exception of the Second Amendment, is now a tattered bleeding mess hidden away in the basement of the Whitehouse.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


>


These cartoons would be funny if there was enough truth in them. When you have to invent the core of the gag, they fall flat as pancakes.


----------



## i-rui

Nothings been invented, she was on the radio saying we need to rejoice because we are in the end times.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> Nothings been invented, she was on the radio saying we need to rejoice because we are in the end times.


I heard about the 'end of times' comment and shuddered.

Pure insanity. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> Nothings been invented, she was on the radio saying we need to rejoice because we are in the end times.


It has nothing to do with the government shutdown. Hell, Al Gore and Bill McKribben are always telling us we're in the end times.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> It has nothing to do with the government shutdown. Hell, Al Gore and Bill McKribben are always telling us we're in the end times.


It has everything to do with her being a political leader. If one believes the end is near, and is happy for that result, their choices going forward do not really facilitate a brighter future.

Your comparisons to Al Gore and Bill McKribben is a terrible one. They are warning us that our actions will negatively impact on our future, and they certainly are not rejoicing about that. Plus their point of view is based on scientific fact and not a millennium old book written by our superstitious ancestors.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> It has everything to do with her being a political leader. If one believes the end is near, and is happy for that result, their choices going forward do not really facilitate a brighter future.
> 
> Your comparisons to Al Gore and Bill McKribben is a terrible one. They are warning us that our actions will negatively impact on our future, and they certainly are not rejoicing about that. Plus their point of view is based on scientific fact and not a millennium old book written by our superstitious ancestors.


Al Gore was a political figure who believed the end was near based on science fantasy. 

However, Bachmann made her comments in relation to Obama's decision to fund terrorist groups in Syria. If the cartoon had been related to that issue it would have had some teeth--not this.


----------



## eMacMan

Al Gore's belief in AGW is motivated entirely by potential personal profit.

His lifestyle is a clear indicator that his so called belief is entirely booooooooooooooogus.


----------



## eMacMan

Those who still believe the US media is not carefully controlled should have been trying to get info on the Truckers DC rally this past weekend. 

Every link was shut down almost as soon as it appeared. I did manage to catch streaming video of truckers and others carrying the pieces of the Veteran's Memorial barricade, past the Whitehouse.
Lame stream news reports of it being only a couple of hundred people in that march were way off the mark. Clearly the numbers were in the several thousands and possibly tens of thousands.

As well there were a lot more truckers than the DC authorities were willing to admit to. Cops were generally quite sympathetic asking only that the truckers leave one lane of the beltway clear.

Any ways it's way past the point where Americans need to stand up and demand repatriation of their Constitution. Glad to see it finally happening.


----------



## Dr.G.

The American Medical Association has weighed in on Obamacare.

The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve. Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!" The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it. Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow. The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter". The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea. Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no. In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the asses in Washington


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> The American Medical Association has weighed in on Obamacare.
> 
> The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve. Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!" The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it. Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow. The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter". The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea. Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no. In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the asses in Washington


:clap:

A bit of levity in this big battle.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> :clap:
> 
> A bit of levity in this big battle.


True. The looming fiscal crisis is of far greater concern to most of us here on Planet Earth. Hopefully, the Tea Party shall not steer the course of the ship of state. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. The looming fiscal crisis is of far greater concern to most of us here on Planet Earth. Hopefully, the Tea Party shall not steer the course of the ship of state. We shall see.


Hopefully Obama will not continue his foolish course of non-negotiation.


----------



## groovetube

anyone catch the latest tea party gaffe?

Veterans Angry Over Tea Party Takeover Of March On Memorials


> “Our vets have proven that they have not been timid, so we will not be timid in calling out any who would use our military, our vets, as pawns in a political game,” Palin told the crowd.


Man, you just can't make this stuff up! Remember when there were people defending Palin as a viable candidate for president? :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

The GOP's little rule change they hoped you wouldn't notice - YouTube

Interesting given I'm hearing some republicans trying to change the channel on them holding the government hostage.


----------



## Macfury

I'm very pleased with the Tea Party contingent of the Republican party, It's become very clear how their principled approach to government is offending the fat cats at the helm of the GOP--and also the greasy Democrats who are rolling in taxpayer lucre. 

Interesting that only The Tea Party supported the veterans. Where were the Democrats?

Note that the veterans are not protesting the absence of park staff. They are protesting the park police sent by Obama to _keep vets away_ from the monuments--something that the commander-in-chief engineered to gain political advantage.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Interesting that only The Tea Party supported the veterans. Where were the Democrats?


wait, "support" = showing up for a photo op?

maybe they could *actually* support the half million veterans who need a program like meals on wheels by not engineering a government shutdown?


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> wait, "support" = showing up for a photo op?


No, it is showing up at all--something Dems avoided like the plague.



i-rui said:


> maybe they could *actually* support the half million veterans who need a program like meals on wheels by not engineering a government shutdown?


Meals on Wheels is not a federal government program.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> wait, "support" = showing up for a photo op?
> 
> maybe they could *actually* support the half million veterans who need a program like meals on wheels by not engineering a government shutdown?


ha ha ha ha ha ha :lmao::lmao::clap:

Yeah all those other politicos using our veterans for political purposes... excuse me sir can you stand here for a photo???

:lmao:


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> No, it is showing up at all--something Dems avoided like the plague.


nothing like an empty gesture after being responsible for the shutdown in the first place!



Macfury said:


> Meals on Wheels is not a federal government program.


over half their funding comes from the federal government :

Federal Funds For Meals On Wheels Tied Up In Shutdown : NPR


----------



## groovetube

Interesting strategy. When you're embarrassed at the party you support's actions, just pretend it's the opposite. The old plug your ears and 'la la la la' trick.

Seems once again, the far right will bear the brunt of the blame over this shutdown and resulting damage.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> over half their funding comes from the federal government :
> 
> Federal Funds For Meals On Wheels Tied Up In Shutdown : NPR


The Senate turned down an offer by Republicans to fund this aspect of government. So while it is not a federal program, and while it is still running, and while its funding is already in place--the Senate refused to extend it.


----------



## FeXL

Obamacare is Imploding Before Our Eyes



> Last week, I explained that the federal government was working overtime to hide the ineffectiveness of the Obamacare insurance exchanges. But the truth is getting out.
> 
> Lately, some have taken to calling the program “glitchcare,” in light of its myriad technological problems. The situation is so bad that even the most damning reports haven’t captured the severity of the health exchange problems.
> 
> And now that reporting has begun, we see that Americans aren’t embracing Obamacare as the president envisioned. It’s hard to argue with the facts, and the exchange websites simply aren’t converting visitors into enrollments. *Just look at Maryland, where the exchange site has seen 170,000 unique visitors…and recorded only 326 enrollments.*


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Obamacare is Imploding Before Our Eyes
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.


Since Obamacare is raising the price of healthcare for most people, why would they want to sign up?


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> The Senate turned down an offer by Republicans to fund this aspect of government. So while it is not a federal program, and while it is still running, and while its funding is already in place--the Senate refused to extend it.


That was very big of the Republicans to offer to make exceptions which they approve of to the the shutdown which they initiated.

it's like a 3 year old on a temper tantrum throwing food everywhere agreeing not to throw stuff at the TV because it's showing a cartoon he enjoys.

Very mature and thoughtful.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> That was very big of the Republicans to offer to make exceptions which they approve of to the the shutdown which they initiated.


They initiated no shut down. Congress controls the purse strings and they have initiated spending bills on everything but the misbegotten spectre of Obamacare. The Senate has shut down the government by refusing to pass these budgets, even refusing to vote on many of the funding bills--now THAT's a temper tantrum.

As Harry Reid stated when asked why he wouldn't pass a funding bill affecting children with cancer:



> "Why would we want to do that? I have 1,100 people at Nellis Air Force base that are sitting home. They have a few problems of their own."


----------



## CubaMark

*Maher: If You Think the World is About to End You Don't Get to Vote on Next Year's Budget*

Bill Maher had a few words for wingnut Michele Bachmann and her counterpart on the Supreme Court, Antonin Scalia during his New Rules segment on Real Time this Friday evening, and I particularly enjoyed this bit on Bachmann:



> And finally, New Rule, I know we can't establish a religious test for office, but if you believe we're living in the end times, like Michele Bachmann does, we get to take away the car keys. Yes, let Jesus take the wheel.
> 
> If you think the world is about to end, that's your right, but you don't get to vote on next year's budget, because it doesn't concern you!



(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## Macfury

Similarly, if you believe the world is heading for some sort of catastrophic global warming--no vote for you either.


----------



## FeXL

When did Obama start doing budgets?


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> That was very big of the Republicans to offer to make exceptions which they approve of to the the shutdown which they initiated.
> 
> it's like a 3 year old on a temper tantrum throwing food everywhere agreeing not to throw stuff at the TV because it's showing a cartoon he enjoys.
> 
> Very mature and thoughtful.


Somewhat glad to see that most Americans see through this faux tea party revolt crap. The rest of the republicans will have to wear this for a while.


----------



## FeXL

So what do the Dems have to wear, then? Oh, this...

Obama Has Borrowed $2,400,000 Per Minute Since Taking Office

I know, I know...

It's still Bush's fault & I'm a racist.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Obamacare...

Obamacare Meltdown Continues: $171 Million State Exchange Website Running on Paper; Many States Have Zero Signups 



> _...Oregon hasn't even tried to open its exchange website
> 
> ... Vermont -- a thinly populated state -- received a large, $171 million grant to run its exchange and upgrade its technology, but its exchange system is still so buggy that officials are relying on paper applications ...
> 
> ...In Oregon and Colorado, the official number of completed applications is still zero.
> 
> ...As of Thursday, Delaware -- a state relying on HHS to handle enrollment -- had not yet confirmed news of any insurer making a single enrollment through the HealthCare.gov system._


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Somewhat glad to see that most Americans see through this faux tea party revolt crap. The rest of the republicans will have to wear this for a while.


Bit of a Boehner on the part of the Republirats. Essentially Americans choosing to vote for the Republirats, are in effect voting for the extreme edge of the party. I guess the good news is that the elections are a year away which should give the spin meisters lots of time to undo the damage.

Similarly by the time the elections roll around the electorate will have a much clearer feel for how Obushma Care has impacted their wallets and their jobs.

Right now Americans give Congress a less than 10% approval rating. This will probably drop even further by the next election as even the mothers, spouses and children of Congressmen are expected to withdraw their support. Perhaps Americans will go so far as to express this disgust by voting only for third party candidates.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Bit of a Boehner on the part of the Republirats. Essentially Americans choosing to vote for the Republirats, are in effect voting for the extreme edge of the party. I guess the good news is that the elections are a year away which should give the spin meisters lots of time to undo the damage.
> 
> Similarly by the time the elections roll around the electorate will have a much clearer feel for how Obushma Care has impacted their wallets and their jobs.
> 
> Right Americans give Congress a less than 10% approval rating. This will probably drop even further by the next election as even the mothers, spouses and children of Congressmen are expected to withdraw their support. Perhaps Americans will go so far as to express this disgust by voting only for third party candidates.


I believe the approval rating recently was 5%. Holy... ouch... And deservedly so.

It's just astounding to watch as the repubs/tea party nuts lose their minds hissing all kinds of total nonsense, the act was barely days old and they're screaming failure.

They're just soooo desperate.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Right now Americans give Congress a less than 10% approval rating. This will probably drop even further by the next election as even the mothers, spouses and children of Congressmen are expected to withdraw their support. Perhaps Americans will go so far as to express this disgust by voting only for third party candidates.


I think this would mean something if they didn't keep re-electing incumbents. The poll is meaningless.

The only people who will recall the "shutdown" by 2014 are voters on the dole--in other words, traditional Democrat voters.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think this would mean something if they didn't keep re-electing incumbents. The poll is meaningless.
> 
> The only people who will recall the "shutdown" by 2014 are voters on the dole--in other words, traditional Democrat voters.


I would love to see the stats to back up this contention, Macfury. What sorts of public assistance do you consider "the dole" (e.g., food stamps, social security, etc)??? I would say that it would be quite difficult to attribute voters of one party or the other to this "dole".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I would love to see the stats to back up this contention, Macfury. What sorts of public assistance do you consider "the dole" (e.g., food stamps, social security, etc)??? I would say that it would be quite difficult to attribute voters of one party or the other to this "dole".



By 'the dole" I mean income-based or needs-tested social assistance programs--what is "doled out" to these recipients.

The best figures I can find are from the 2008 study, _Democrats and Republicans--Rhetoric and Reality: Comparing the Voters in Statistics and Anecdotes_, by Joseph Fried. The data indicates that Democrats are twice as likely to be on income-based or needs-tested social assistance than Republicans.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I would love to see the stats to back up this contention, Macfury. What sorts of public assistance do you consider "the dole" (e.g., food stamps, social security, etc)??? I would say that it would be quite difficult to attribute voters of one party or the other to this "dole".


That's generally the refuge of the right when things are going really badly. Just attribute it all to lazy 'mooches' and all will be just swell. Recall Romney and his huge gaffe, but what they often don't realize, is that a very large number of those 'mooches' are seniors who have worked all their lives and paid into the system, veterans who gave more than we can imagine, certainly more than the ones making these comments about those on the dole... disabled people who can't work, etc.

Not only that, I'm guessing the 5% approval rating stats, were not sampled merely from said, er... 'mooches'.

sad.


----------



## i-rui

It's well documented that the red states are the biggest takers of federal dollars vs how much they revenue they contribute.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> It's well documented that the red states are the biggest takers of federal dollars vs how much they revenue they contribute.


The old I don't wanna pay into a system for others well until I benefit from it deal. Seen it too many times.

I am hearing a deal has been or will be made. Obamacare funded. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> It's well documented that the red states are the biggest takers of federal dollars vs how much they revenue they contribute.


Perhaps. However, Democrats are still the biggest users of social welfare, even in red states.


----------



## CubaMark

_Has this been posted before? Rather intriguing - laying the blame at the foot of the Republicans for keeping the government shutdown...
_




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.





(Related story from the Baltimore Sun)


----------



## groovetube

I did post that the other day. http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-381.html#post1468049

Not much in the way of comments over that surprisingly. That's pretty wild isn't it? Especially coming from the party of freedom and free speech!


----------



## Macfury

Sweet--the Republicans are learning!

I love that lefty spin--the rule they hoped you didn't know about. Unless you had even a minor interest in politics that is.


----------



## groovetube

Ted Cruz Admits Budget Standoff Was All About Building Fundraising Lists | ThinkProgress

Nothing like creating a big crisis to build support and raise nearly a million bucks eh?

Interesting that support for obamacare has risen. Will be interesting to see what happens if obamacare is allowed to run for a while.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I think this would mean something if they didn't keep re-electing incumbents. The poll is meaningless.
> 
> The only people who will recall the "shutdown" by 2014 are voters on the dole--in other words, traditional Democrat voters.


I might be wrong here, but from where I live and watch our neighbours to the south, the poorest states have an interesting trait. ............. Virtually all are southern and republican .... Curious don't you think.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> I might be wrong here, but from where I live and watch our neighbours to the south, the poorest states have an interesting trait. ............. Virtually all are southern and republican .... Curious don't you think.


Thars democrats in them thar hills!

If they take welfare, it automatically meant they're a democrat.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I might be wrong here, but from where I live and watch our neighbours to the south, the poorest states have an interesting trait. .............  Virtually all are southern and republican .... Curious don't you think.


You live next to the Democrat stronghold of Detroit--that should tell you something!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> You live next to the Democrat stronghold of Detroit--that should tell you something!


True, but Detroit is a city, Michigan has a Republican governor. But there is some truth to your comment with respect to Detroit.....I would suspect it has been controlled and manipulated by back room bosses for many years, building a debt that it would have no hope of paying off, all due to the steady stream of good times money...when that went, when the investment rates dropped, the city couldn't recover. It also has a huge rate payer base who do not pay their city taxes .. That short fall is difficult to overcome.

I think the city needs to rebuild at the core, not sure if a conservative mindset would work.


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> True, but Detroit is a city, Michigan has a Republican governor. But there is some truth to your comment with respect to Detroit.....I would suspect it has been controlled and manipulated by back room bosses for many years, building a debt that it would have no hope of paying off, all due to the steady stream of good times money...when that went, when the investment rates dropped, the city couldn't recover. It also has a huge rate payer base who do not pay their city taxes .. That short fall is difficult to overcome.
> 
> I think the city needs to rebuild at the core, not sure if a conservative mindset would work.


all they'll do is shift whatever monies into their corp buddies pockets and tell everyone they have to do that to create jobs.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think the city needs to rebuild at the core, not sure if a conservative mindset would work.


That money has already gone into golden pensions. The only way out now is to shake down taxpayers who don't live there.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> That money has already gone into golden pensions. The only way out now is to shake down taxpayers who don't live there.


Not sure I agree . The issue is getting a tax paying base not outside money. If it were me I would do some "urban-homesteading. Evict those who do not pay taxes, plough under the buildings in chronic disrepair and ofer them to Detroiters who want to own a home. They must fix up or build a home, pay taxes, and cannot sell it for five years. What they do now is have county auctions for these home...so the developed are the ones who gain. And this is where the straw boss comes in I think. Better to have people who want to contribute to the establishment of a community. The main issue with Big D is no one actually lives there....there is no community. You can walk through Toronto almost any time of day and there are open shops, people walking, families seeing the sights... Detroit, not so much.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not sure I agree . The issue is getting a tax paying base not outside money. If it were me I would do some "urban-homesteading. Evict those who do not pay taxes, plough under the buildings in chronic disrepair and ofer them to Detroiters who want to own a home. They must fix up or build a home, pay taxes, and cannot sell it for five years. What they do now is have county auctions for these home...so the developed are the ones who gain. And this is where the straw boss comes in I think. Better to have people who want to contribute to the establishment of a community. The main issue with Big D is no one actually lives there....there is no community. You can walk through Toronto almost any time of day and there are open shops, people walking, families seeing the sights... Detroit, not so much.


Once you plow a home under you have zero property tax, and the expense of demolition and removing the home from the city water system--but you still have the infrastructure burden that once served that house, including road, water and sewer.

My suspicion is that the arts community will likely take over knots of these buildings, then the developers will move in afterward. However, the cost of maintaining current infrastructure is not going away, and few people will want to move in knowing they need to support the golden pension plans of a massive retired worker population who doesn't even live there.


----------



## groovetube

pfffft.

Tea Party Republican Defends Being on Medicaid While Opposing Medicaid


----------



## FeXL

So, not that long ago, Cyprus limited withdrawals from bank accounts and halted international transfers. It was colloquially called a bail-in and was actually theft of depositors funds to save the bank's arse.

Now that a major US bank is doing the same, I wonder what it's going to be called?

Chase Bank Limits Cash Withdrawals, Bans International Wire Transfers 



> Numerous business customers with Chase BusinessSelect Checking and Chase BusinessClassic accounts have received letters over the past week informing them that cash activity (both deposits and withdrawals) will be limited to a $50,000 total per statement cycle from November 17 onwards.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting article about Tea Party roots.

Brit Hume: Tea Party Arose from GOP Establishment Failure to Restrain Govt. Spending



> Fox News political analyst Brit Hume conceded that Republicans that grew the federal government while they were in power the last decade may have ultimately been responsible for the recent standoff over the budget because their actions helped create the Tea Party that now stands fiercely opposed to their goals.


----------



## FeXL

US debt ceiling crisis – Barack Obama has won the shutdown. His prize is a lame duck presidency



> *It was the Democrat-controlled Senate that first rejected the House's bill and so sparked the crisis. It was the President who refused to talk to anyone about it* (and went campaigning instead). It was the federal government – even when in shutdown – that behaved like a spoiled child, covering war memorials in fences and trying to stop military priests from saying Mass. And it was the mainstream media that took the side of the President and helped foster the impression that the GOP is run by a bunch of blowhard crazy people.


Bold mine.

Further:



> But the reality is that US politics right now is a mess for both Left and Right, and the country is stuck in partisan limbo until the 2014 midterms or even the 2016 presidential election. This is not a Republican problem, it is an American problem.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> So, not that long ago, Cyprus limited withdrawals from bank accounts and halted international transfers. It was colloquially called a bail-in and was actually theft of depositors funds to save the bank's arse.
> 
> Now that a major US bank is doing the same, I wonder what it's going to be called?
> 
> Chase Bank Limits Cash Withdrawals, Bans International Wire Transfers


A bail-in

The same bail-in legislation was written into US, Canadian and almost every countries books about the same time that it was written into Cyprus law books. And the Con apologists wonder why I claim that legislation is being written by the bankster/big business conglomerate for the benefit of the same.

BTW Thanks to FATCA a lot of offshore investors may start moving their money out of the US so expect more of this down the road.


----------



## groovetube

9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact

I'm sure there'll be plenty of furious spin as to why this is the way it should be. But the truth is 92% of America, disagrees. Yet so many buy the whole give the rich/corporations huge tax breaks for fear of OMG! jobs!

How gullible are people!

When I see people trot out the word socialism, you know they haven't any idea what that actually means...


----------



## FeXL

While I haven't clicked on the link, I have a simple question: Is this 92% figure cited referring to the Americans with Obamaphones?

Jes' askin'...


----------



## FeXL

Just a few links on the Charlie Foxtrot known as "Obamacare".

ObamaCare Website Wasn't Tested Until a Week Before Deployment

Further from the link:



> More people have applied to live on Mars than have signed up for Obamacare


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Further:

Former official: Admin refused to bring in outside help for ObamaCare website for fear GOP would subpoena them



> Facing such intense opposition from congressional Republicans, the administration was in a bunker mentality as it built the enrollment system, one former administration official said. Officials feared that if they called on outsiders to help with the technical details of how to run a commerce website, those companies could be subpoenaed by Hill Republicans, the former aide said. So the task fell to trusted campaign tech experts.


What's the old saw? Pride goeth before the fall?

The Abysmal, Pathetic Obamacare Rollout

This is rich:



> Faced with the manifest—and ongoing—failure of the federal exchange at Healthcare.gov to allow people to shop, compare, and enroll in great new insurance at low, low prices, Barack Obama huffed, “Just a couple of weeks ago, Apple rolled out a new mobile operating system, and within days, they found a glitch, so they fixed it. I don’t remember anybody suggesting Apple should stop selling iPhones or iPads or threatening to shut down the company if they didn’t.”


Comparing Obamacare to iOS7. Hey, Bari, it's been a few days. Have you fixed the glitch yet?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

New York Doctors Sick Over ObamaCare: “It’s basically going to be a race to the bottom”



> New York doctors are feeling queasy about ObamaCare — and many won’t participate in the new national insurance program because they fear they’ll go broke, The Post has learned.
> 
> “ObamaCare is going to send me more patients to see and then cut the payments to provide the care — that’s what’s going to happen,” predicted Donald Moore, a primary-care doctor in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn. “I will not accept it.”


And Cruz is the crazy one...

HealthCare.Gov Help-Line Agent: They Deleted Your Password By Accident. They Lost Them. Senior Government Official: No We Didn't



> The background is that the few people who successfully created accounts (not the same as actually getting insurance) had their passwords reset and deleted. It was claimed that this was a deliberate action, required to fix the site (or something).
> 
> But that's not what help-line agents are telling the public.


Industry source tells NRO: WH may have to consider “unthinkable options” if website meltdown continues into November



> If the problems now plaguing the system are not resolved by mid-November and the flow of enrollments at that point looks like it does now, the prospects for the first year of the exchanges will be in very grave jeopardy. Some large advertising and outreach campaigns are also geared to that crucial six-week period around Thanksgiving and Christmas, so if the sites are not functional, all of that might not happen—or else might be wasted. If that’s what the late fall looks like, the administration might need to consider what one of the people I spoke with described as *“unthinkable options” regarding the first year of the exchanges…*


Bold from the link.

And, for your Saturday morning smile, Hitler is not happy about the the failure of the exchanges:

Hitler Learns About the Obamacare Exchanges

Just one question, from all the left leaning types here regarding the Obamacare website screwup...

Some time ago, on one of these political threads, many of you were calling for Harper's head, his resignation, because of something that one of his underlings had screwed up. I believe that rationale went along the lines of, "He's the leader. He's responsible for all decisions made underneath him" or some such.

Just wondering if the sauce is good for the gander. I suspect not. However, feel free to prove me wrong...


----------



## FeXL

What is it with the left and censorship? Can they simply not hold their own on an even playing field? Pop Sci, LA Times, Obama?

Obama: We Need to Stop Paying Attention to the Bloggers



> "And now that the government has reopened and this threat to our economy is removed, all of us need to stop focusing on the lobbyists, and the bloggers, and the talking heads on radio and the professional activists who profit from conflict, and focus on what the majority of Americans sent us here to do."


Yet, as noted at the link, he's more than happy to trot out those same forms of communication when they shore his argument...


----------



## i-rui

that's criticism, not censorship.

and he's right about right wing bloggers. it's trash.


----------



## groovetube

Scraping the barrel again?


----------



## FeXL

i-rui said:


> that's criticism, not censorship.
> 
> and he's right about right wing bloggers. it's trash.


Pop Sci no longer allows comments. That's censorship.

LA Times no longer allows sceptics to comment. Also censorship.

And no left wing blogger is trash? Is that by design or definition?

And, Obama's more than happy to push the medium when it works to his advantage. But listen to him cry & whine when he receives criticism via the same medium. That speaks loudly about his ability to deal with criticism, the whiner.

What a crock...


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Scraping the barrel again?


Trolling again? Instead of hiding behind your ignore list, why don't you face the music? Because you have your butt handed to you every time you try?


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> Trolling again? Instead of hiding behind your ignore list, why don't you face the music? Because you have your butt handed to you every time you try?


Sadly he knows no other way than to troll with remarks that can only bring adverse reactions. I guess in that respect, he gets what he deserves. I now just ignore his trolling.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Pop Sci no longer allows comments. That's censorship.
> 
> LA Times no longer allows sceptics to comment. Also censorship.
> 
> And no left wing blogger is trash? Is that by design or definition?
> 
> And, Obama's more than happy to push the medium when it works to his advantage. But listen to him cry & whine when he receives criticism via the same medium. That speaks loudly about his ability to deal with criticism, the whiner.
> 
> What a crock...


I would argue that most blogs are trash and that it isn't censorship to prevent people from commenting in a privately-owned publication--it is just intellectually dishonest. However, Obama has consistently championed appointees, such as Cass Sunsteen, who actually do want to regulate "truth" on the Internet.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Sadly he knows no other way than to troll with remarks that can only bring adverse reactions. I guess in that respect, he gets what he deserves. I now just ignore his trolling.


Oh like you have no idea what that is about mr call everyone drug users who disagrees with you. The pair of you have made snide remarks without responses for some time here so stuff in your backside for all I give a crap.

Nothing more cowardly than a bunch of whiners who shriek hysterically when the same gets dished back. Don't like it? Then don't do it yourselves hypocrites.

You wanna howl victim crap at me? Fine, I'll dish it back just as hard.


----------



## SINC

Now who's calling people names? I certainly have never called 'everyone drug users', that's a lie that you tell when trolling. I'm always interested when people, you included, admit to past or present use of drugs. It gives me an idea of people's weak points and how to avoid it myself. Call it educational interest on my part.


----------



## i-rui

FeXL said:


> Pop Sci no longer allows comments. That's censorship.


No it isn't 



FeXL said:


> LA Times no longer allows sceptics to comment. Also censorship.


Again, no it isn't.

Websites, or any media outlet have every right to moderate the content which appears under their name.



FeXL said:


> And no left wing blogger is trash? Is that by design or definition?


I never said that. I'm sure there is. IMO they certainly don't dictate the political agenda of an entire party the way tea party blogs have been able to.

BTW, Ezra Klein, Josh Marshall, and Matt Yglesias are all respected journalists for established publications, not bloggers running sites from their basements with iWeb.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Now who's calling people names? I certainly have never called 'everyone drug users', that's a lie that you tell when trolling. I'm always interested when people, you included, admit to past or present use of drugs. It gives me an idea of people's weak points and how to avoid it myself. Call it educational interest on my part.


Yes you did, everyone saw it, rolled their eyes. You did it as far back as MannyP who left because of it. You and your buddy stamp your feet and bully people here all the time don't give me this crap.

You want to whine about it look in the mirror and stop complaining.


----------



## groovetube

with all the moaning about Obamacare, this pretty well sums up the Lie machine:

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Yes you did, everyone saw it, rolled their eyes. You did it as far back as MannyP who left because of it. You and your buddy stamp your feet and bully people here all the time don't give me this crap.
> 
> You want to whine about it look in the mirror and stop complaining.


I think your memory is bad, apologized to Manny by order of the mayor way back then for what was unintentional. You might want to quit pounding that same old drum. 

And for the record Manny is sure not 'everyone'. Man you just can't refuse being proven wrong time and again, can you? Oh well, You go back to your trolling, I have little time for this beating of drums.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> I think your memory is bad, apologized to Manny by order of the mayor way back then for what was unintentional. You might want to quit pounding that same old drum.
> 
> And for the record Manny is sure not 'everyone'. Man you just can't refuse being proven wrong time and again, can you? Oh well, You go back to your trolling, I have little time for this beating of drums.


but you kept doing it to others. We watched you do it. Don't give us this crap that you don't make any snide remarks to anyone because you do it all the time. I simply send it right on back so stop whining.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> but you kept doing it to others. We watched you do it. Don't give us this crap that you don't make any snide remarks to anyone because you do it all the time. I simply send it right on back so stop whining.


Pardon me, but you are the only one continuing this stupidity by whining. If you would just STHU it would end.


----------



## FeXL

i-rui said:


> No it isn't
> 
> Again, no it isn't.


Then perhaps you can educate the unwashed on what term you would use when both sides of the story are prevented from being shown.



i-rui said:


> Websites, or any media outlet have every right to moderate the content which appears under their name.


Absolutely. But when they openly admit to doing it because of the fact that they don't like both sides of the story portrayed, it's censorship.



i-rui said:


> I never said that. I'm sure there is. IMO they certainly don't dictate the political agenda of an entire party the way tea party blogs have been able to.


So all right wing blogs are tea party blogs?



i-rui said:


> BTW, Ezra Klein, Josh Marshall, and Matt Yglesias are all respected journalists for established publications, not bloggers running sites from their basements with iWeb.


So all blogs are equal, just some are more equal than others?


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Pardon me, but you are the only one continuing this stupidity by whining. If you would just STHU it would end.


well then don't start it. Almost everyday you come stomping in in the middle of a thread with nothing but a bunch of BS about trolling and whining and complaining.

Just shut up about it, and don't whine if I hit back on your crap. It's embarrassing.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Sadly he knows no other way than to troll with remarks that can only bring adverse reactions. I guess in that respect, he gets what he deserves. I now just ignore his trolling.


there you go. Look who started it. All because you didn't like that I thought something was 'scraping the bottom of the barrel?

pfffft.

Whine away big boy. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Oh like you have no idea what that is about mr call everyone drug users who disagrees with you. The pair of you have made snide remarks without responses for some time here so stuff in your backside for all I give a crap.


What's with this anal fixation? Did you have difficulty potty training?



groovetube said:


> Nothing more cowardly than a bunch of whiners who shriek hysterically when the same gets dished back. Don't like it? Then don't do it yourselves hypocrites.


You want to talk cowardly? Putting people on an ignore list is cowardly. Especially when you flick that list on and off like a light bulb 'cause it bugs you that someone is saying something & you don't know what it is. There's a busybody down the street that's worn out three pairs of curtains this year opening & closing them, just like you. Man up & deal with the fallout your trolling creates or stop trolling or just go away. Quit playing games...



groovetube said:


> You wanna howl victim crap at me? Fine, I'll dish it back just as hard.


The only victim here, groove, is you. 24/365. You should change your handle to "victim" instead of "reformed". It's a far more accurate monicker...


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> there you go. Look who started it. All because you didn't like that I thought something was 'scraping the bottom of the barrel?
> 
> pfffft.
> 
> Whine away big boy. :lmao:


No, I stated I thought you were trolling. Again. That is the reality.

So whine away, little man. You truly are a little man, aren't you?


----------



## groovetube

You're a very sad little man.

Stop following me around in threads mouthing off without anything to contribute.

It's pathetic.

Where's your little puppy dog, he should be chiming in soon enough. He lives for this sort of thing.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Stop following me around in threads mouthing off without anything to contribute.


Oh Puleeze, don't flatter yourself. I read all the threads here and happen across your comments from time to time. It's not worth my time to follow you around.


----------



## groovetube

Oh yes you do, constantly. 

Clearly you have some psychological problems.


----------



## SINC

Man, what an ego. Incredible that anyone could think themselves so important I would follow them. Never did follow a loser, no point in it.


----------



## groovetube

yeah that's why you constantly jump in a thread, contribute absolutely nothing but to bash and call me a troll.

Not sure why you consider me so important in your day to do so, but it's not my problem, it's yours.

KLet;s see how many days go by before you do it again k? :lmao:


----------



## SINC

Ah, so your smart political sense and remarks that you continue to pollute threads with are the result of your Einstein training? They are more like trolling to many here. Talk about problems, take a look in a mirror.


----------



## groovetube

I don't care if you hate my political comments, at least they're on topic, and whether you think so or not contribute to the debate. Just because you disagree doesn't matter to me.

Can't say much for your bullying stomps which nothing to do with the topic. So who's the troll here?

yeah! Gawd you're so dense aren't you. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting point within an interesting article. The upcoming elections in 2014 and 2016 should be VERY interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/us/fiscal-crisis-sounds-the-charge-in-gops-civil-war.html?hp

"The budget fight that led to the first government shutdown in 17 years did not just set off a round of recriminations among Republicans over who was to blame for the politically disastrous standoff. It also heralded a very public escalation of a far more consequential battle for control of the Republican Party, a confrontation between Tea Party conservatives and establishment Republicans that will play out in the coming Congressional and presidential primaries in 2014 and 2016 but has been simmering since President George W. Bush’s administration, if not before. "


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting point within an interesting article. The upcoming elections in 2014 and 2016 should be VERY interesting.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/us/fiscal-crisis-sounds-the-charge-in-gops-civil-war.html?hp
> 
> "The budget fight that led to the first government shutdown in 17 years did not just set off a round of recriminations among Republicans over who was to blame for the politically disastrous standoff. It also heralded a very public escalation of a far more consequential battle for control of the Republican Party, a confrontation between Tea Party conservatives and establishment Republicans that will play out in the coming Congressional and presidential primaries in 2014 and 2016 but has been simmering since President George W. Bush’s administration, if not before. "


It was not a politically disastrous standoff at all. I agree with Nate Silver here:



> “The folks you see on TV are much too sure of themselves. They've been making too much of thin slices of polling and thinner historical precedents that might not apply this time around.”
> 
> “Remember Syria? The fiscal cliff? Benghazi? The IRS scandal? The collapse of immigration reform? All of these were hyped as game-changing political moments by the news media, just as so many stories were during the election last year. In each case, the public's interest quickly waned once the news cycle turned over to another story. Most political stories have a fairly short half-life and won't turn out to be as consequential as they seem at the time."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It was not a politically disastrous standoff at all. I agree with Nate Silver here:


Macfury, I still feel that the Tea Party will either emerge as the dominant force within the Republican Party, or slowly wane into a splinter group. I don't see the middle ground for them in that either there is a great movement of support for their views, or many will isolate their influence to those 40 districts that elected Tea Party supporters. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Well I certainly don't see any gains in support for the tea party here in future.

You're right though G, the next elections -will- be very interesting to watch.

(thx for getting things back on topic)


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> I don't care if you hate my political comments, *at least they're on topic, and whether you think so or not contribute to the debate*.


Let's examine the evidence, shall we?

From The American Political Thread (most recent first):



groovetube said:


> yeah that's why you constantly jump in a thread, contribute absolutely nothing but to bash and call me a troll.
> 
> Not sure why you consider me so important in your day to do so, but it's not my problem, it's yours.
> 
> KLet;s see how many days go by before you do it again k? :lmao:





groovetube said:


> Oh yes you do, constantly.
> 
> Clearly you have some psychological problems.





groovetube said:


> You're a very sad little man.
> 
> Stop following me around in threads mouthing off without anything to contribute.
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> Where's your little puppy dog, he should be chiming in soon enough. He lives for this sort of thing.





groovetube said:


> there you go. Look who started it. All because you didn't like that I thought something was 'scraping the bottom of the barrel?
> 
> pfffft.
> 
> Whine away big boy. :lmao:





groovetube said:


> well then don't start it. Almost everyday you come stomping in in the middle of a thread with nothing but a bunch of BS about trolling and whining and complaining.
> 
> Just shut up about it, and don't whine if I hit back on your crap. It's embarrassing.





groovetube said:


> but you kept doing it to others. We watched you do it. Don't give us this crap that you don't make any snide remarks to anyone because you do it all the time. I simply send it right on back so stop whining.





groovetube said:


> Yes you did, everyone saw it, rolled their eyes. You did it as far back as MannyP who left because of it. You and your buddy stamp your feet and bully people here all the time don't give me this crap.
> 
> You want to whine about it look in the mirror and stop complaining.





groovetube said:


> Oh like you have no idea what that is about mr call everyone drug users who disagrees with you. The pair of you have made snide remarks without responses for some time here so stuff in your backside for all I give a crap.
> 
> Nothing more cowardly than a bunch of whiners who shriek hysterically when the same gets dished back. Don't like it? Then don't do it yourselves hypocrites.
> 
> You wanna howl victim crap at me? Fine, I'll dish it back just as hard.





groovetube said:


> Scraping the barrel again?





groovetube said:


> 9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact
> 
> I'm sure there'll be plenty of furious spin as to why this is the way it should be. But the truth is 92% of America, disagrees. Yet so many buy the whole give the rich/corporations huge tax breaks for fear of OMG! jobs!
> 
> How gullible are people!
> 
> When I see people trot out the word socialism, you know they haven't any idea what that actually means...





groovetube said:


> pfffft.
> 
> Tea Party Republican Defends Being on Medicaid While Opposing Medicaid





groovetube said:


> all they'll do is shift whatever monies into their corp buddies pockets and tell everyone they have to do that to create jobs.





groovetube said:


> Thars democrats in them thar hills!
> 
> If they take welfare, it automatically meant they're a democrat.





groovetube said:


> Ted Cruz Admits Budget Standoff Was All About Building Fundraising Lists | ThinkProgress
> 
> Nothing like creating a big crisis to build support and raise nearly a million bucks eh?
> 
> Interesting that support for obamacare has risen. Will be interesting to see what happens if obamacare is allowed to run for a while.





groovetube said:


> I did post that the other day. http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-381.html#post1468049
> 
> Not much in the way of comments over that surprisingly. That's pretty wild isn't it? Especially coming from the party of freedom and free speech!





groovetube said:


> The old I don't wanna pay into a system for others well until I benefit from it deal. Seen it too many times.
> 
> I am hearing a deal has been or will be made. Obamacare funded. :clap:





groovetube said:


> That's generally the refuge of the right when things are going really badly. Just attribute it all to lazy 'mooches' and all will be just swell. Recall Romney and his huge gaffe, but what they often don't realize, is that a very large number of those 'mooches' are seniors who have worked all their lives and paid into the system, veterans who gave more than we can imagine, certainly more than the ones making these comments about those on the dole... disabled people who can't work, etc.
> 
> Not only that, I'm guessing the 5% approval rating stats, were not sampled merely from said, er... 'mooches'.
> 
> sad.





groovetube said:


> I believe the approval rating recently was 5%. Holy... ouch... And deservedly so.
> 
> It's just astounding to watch as the repubs/tea party nuts lose their minds hissing all kinds of total nonsense, the act was barely days old and they're screaming failure.
> 
> They're just soooo desperate.





groovetube said:


> Somewhat glad to see that most Americans see through this faux tea party revolt crap. The rest of the republicans will have to wear this for a while.





groovetube said:


> Interesting strategy. When you're embarrassed at the party you support's actions, just pretend it's the opposite. The old plug your ears and 'la la la la' trick.
> 
> Seems once again, the far right will bear the brunt of the blame over this shutdown and resulting damage.





groovetube said:


> ha ha ha ha ha ha :lmao::lmao::clap:
> 
> Yeah all those other politicos using our veterans for political purposes... excuse me sir can you stand here for a photo???
> 
> :lmao:





groovetube said:


> The GOP's little rule change they hoped you wouldn't notice - YouTube
> 
> Interesting given I'm hearing some republicans trying to change the channel on them holding the government hostage.





groovetube said:


> anyone catch the latest tea party gaffe?
> 
> Veterans Angry Over Tea Party Takeover Of March On Memorials
> 
> 
> Man, you just can't make this stuff up! Remember when there were people defending Palin as a viable candidate for president? :lmao:





groovetube said:


> :clap:
> 
> A bit of levity in this big battle.





groovetube said:


> I heard about the 'end of times' comment and shuddered.
> 
> Pure insanity. :lmao:


Ladies & gentlemen, I give you one week's worth of groovetube's personally guaranteed on topic posts and certified in writing to augment the thread topic.

I was going to quote at least a couple of threads but, my stomach couldn't handle any more... XX)

But, no, we're not trolling. Nosiree...


----------



## Macfury

To be honest, the commentary accompanying the posts often indicates that the link may not even have been read by the OP. In some cases, I would have enjoyed debating those points with someone who actually wants to do a little work and become informed enough about those issues to be able to discuss them.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Well I certainly don't see any gains in support for the tea party here in future.
> 
> You're right though G, the next elections -will- be very interesting to watch.
> 
> (thx for getting things back on topic)


I don't see the Tea Party as having any influence here in Canada. Still, the primaries in the US mid-term elections, especially for the Republican Party candidates, will be a sign of their improving or declining support. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I don't see the Tea Party as having any influence here in Canada. Still, the primaries in the US mid-term elections, especially for the Republican Party candidates, will be a sign of their improving or declining support. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


oh I didn't mean in Canada, 'here' meaning in this latest shutdown.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> oh I didn't mean in Canada, 'here' meaning in this latest shutdown.


Oops. Mea culpa. I misunderstood.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

No, as I've said before, writing isn't my strongest suit.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> No, as I've said before, writing isn't my strongest suit.


No problem. I have made the same miscue.

Paix, mon ami.

Sen. Cruz has now started to distance himself from the "Washington elite" in his latest speech, saying he represents Texas first. Actually, this is a smart move politically if he is thinking of appealing to a national audience. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

too bad he's a canadian. 

Because if america voted for mr. green eggs and ham well, I got nothin'


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> I don't see the Tea Party as having any influence here in Canada. Still, the primaries in the US mid-term elections, especially for the Republican Party candidates, will be a sign of their improving or declining support. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


My view, for what it's worth, is that the US needs a third party. The two they have are too entrenched in the straw boss system. I really think the US needs a progressive Conservative party. As a nation they truly don't appear to understand the concept of a socialist government, so an NDP or even a GREEN is a non starter. I'm not so sure our Liberal party would even fly...as I think our Liberals are less conservative when compared to the Democrats....but that said, the TEA party is one that won't go away. I see them as the new third party. When in doubt, the US political back room always pulls out fear to motivate the voters ..... And when in doubt the more Conservative party seems to always win..... So look out GOP.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> too bad he's a canadian.
> 
> Because if america voted for mr. green eggs and ham well, I got nothin'


Cruz has renounced his Canadian citizenship. Pity.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> My view, for what it's worth, is that the US needs a third party. The two they have are too entrenched in the straw boss system. I really think the US needs a progressive Conservative party. As a nation they truly don't appear to understand the concept of a socialist government, so an NDP or even a GREEN is a non starter. I'm not so sure our Liberal party would even fly...as I think our Liberals are less conservative when compared to the Democrats....but that said, the TEA party is one that won't go away. I see them as the new third party. When in doubt, the US political back room always pulls out fear to motivate the voters ..... And when in doubt the more Conservative party seems to always win..... So look out GOP.


An interesting point, Rp. The closest thing the Republican Party had to a "progressive conservative party" was Progressive Party of 1912 (aka the Bull Moose Party) which was formed by former President Theodore Roosevelt. In 1924 there was also Robert M. La Follette, Sr. who ran for president and received 17% of the vote. They also had the Rockefeller Republicans in the 50's and early 60's, with Nelson Rockefeller and John Lindsay the two most successful and well known Republicans to hold office with progressive conservative ideas.

The Democrats had their own Progressive Party with former VP Henry Wallace running for president in 1948. Before Wallace there was William Jennings Bryant. He was a populist but remained in the Democratic Party. President Wilson appointed him Secretary of State in 1913, but Wilson's strong demands on Germany after the Lusitania was torpedoed in 1915 caused Bryan to resign in protest.

Of course, there was FDR and LBJ who were the two presidents that brought about the greatest array of programs that were progressive and helped millions upon millions of people and the environment.

As I said, the next mid-term congressional elections and the presidential election of 2016 will help to determine if the Tea Party emerges with greater strength or sinks back into a fringe group. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, at least he is honest.

"(CNN) - If Republicans suffer losses in next year's mid-term elections because of the recent partial government shutdown, Sen. Ted Cruz said Senate Republicans–not Democrats–will be responsible. 

"The single-most damaging thing that has happened to Republicans for 2014 is all of the Senate Republicans coming out, attacking the House Republicans, attacking those pushing the effort to defund Obamacare and lining themselves up opposite of the American people," Cruz told CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash in an interview in San Antonio." 

Cruz: Senate Republicans are ‘single-most damaging thing’ for the GOP in 2014 – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## groovetube

opposite the American people, who voted for Obama and his health care reforms?

Perhaps Texas is America to him


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> opposite the American people, who voted for Obama and his health care reforms?
> 
> Perhaps Texas is America to him


Well, Pres. Obama lost Texas in both the 2008 and 2012 elections, which is not surprising. So, Texas is fertile ground for Sen. Cruz.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Pres. Obama lost Texas in both the 2008 and 2012 elections, which is not surprising. So, Texas is fertile ground for Sen. Cruz.


ah yes. The "Texas people" is maybe more like it


----------



## Dr.G.

The problem for Speaker Boehner as the leader of a fractured caucus is that he is listening to only a small but loud fraction of the American electorate that voted in Tea Party reps. The voices of this America are vengeful if they don't get their way. As well, the leaders within the Tea Party were clearly able to compel Boehner to rebuff the other more mainstream and moderate America, and their elected representatives, that seemed to seek some sort of compromise and resolution.

So did Boehner display good leadership? For his tea party caucus, yes. For the country as a whole, no.

As I said, the upcoming mid-term Congressional elections next year will be very interesting.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, do you see a Democratic Congress with a Republican President on the horizon????


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> The problem for Speaker Boehner as the leader of a fractured caucus is that he is listening to only a small but loud fraction of the American electorate that voted in Tea Party reps. The voices of this America are vengeful if they don't get their way. As well, the leaders within the Tea Party were clearly able to compel Boehner to rebuff the other more mainstream and moderate America, and their elected representatives, that seemed to seek some sort of compromise and resolution.
> 
> So did Boehner display good leadership? For his tea party caucus, yes. For the country as a whole, no.
> 
> As I said, the upcoming mid-term Congressional elections next year will be very interesting.


that's exactly what I think G. It seems a smaller minority was allowed to cause a huge problem with this shutdown, and references I see to standing up for the wishes of the american people seems laughable to me. Standing up to a smaller minority of far right americans, perhaps. At best.


----------



## Macfury

He's corcect, but only because they did not maintain the shutdown.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least he is honest.
> 
> "(CNN) - If Republicans suffer losses in next year's mid-term elections because of the recent partial government shutdown, Sen. Ted Cruz said Senate Republicans–not Democrats–will be responsible.
> 
> "The single-most damaging thing that has happened to Republicans for 2014 is all of the Senate Republicans coming out, attacking the House Republicans, attacking those pushing the effort to defund Obamacare and lining themselves up opposite of the American people," Cruz told CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash in an interview in San Antonio."
> 
> Cruz: Senate Republicans are ‘single-most damaging thing’ for the GOP in 2014 – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, do you see a Democratic Congress with a Republican President on the horizon????


No. However, I would love to see an all Democratic Congress with a strong Democratic president. Maybe he/she could do what LBJ did in 1964 with progressive social programs ........... without the dark abyss of Vietnam. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> that's exactly what I think G. It seems a smaller minority was allowed to cause a huge problem with this shutdown, and references I see to standing up for the wishes of the american people seems laughable to me. Standing up to a smaller minority of far right americans, perhaps. At best.


Sadly, gt, it is no laughing matter if the Tea Party gets to call the shots. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's corcect, but only because they did not maintain the shutdown.


Well, hopefully Speaker Boehner will get some backbone and stand up to the faction when the US gets to the abyss of the fiscal cliff once again. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, gt, it is no laughing matter if the Tea Party gets to call the shots. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


No, no it wouldn't. I attribute much of what went terribly wrong with the bush years to these nutty far right ones. I can't imagine the utter devastation should they wield any more power.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> No, no it wouldn't. I attribute much of what went terribly wrong with the bush years to these nutty far right ones. I can't imagine the utter devastation should they wield any more power.


Utter devastation? Really? How naive! Phhhht!


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> No, no it wouldn't. I attribute much of what went terribly wrong with the bush years to these nutty far right ones. I can't imagine the utter devastation should they wield any more power.


The Tea Party might take control of the Republican Party, but the US as a whole would not be voting them in to Congress in any numbers so as to give them power. Thus, it might splinter the Republican Party for the next decade or so. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> The Tea Party might take control of the Republican Party, but the US as a whole would not be voting them in to Congress in any numbers so as to give them power. Thus, it might splinter the Republican Party for the next decade or so. We shall see.


yes. As you said, next mid and presidential elections will be interesting to watch.

CNN Poll: 75% say most GOP in Congress don't deserve re-election - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No. However, I would love to see an all Democratic Congress with a strong Democratic president. Maybe he/she could do what LBJ did in 1964 with progressive social programs ........... without the dark abyss of Vietnam. We shall see.


This was a dark day for the country. I pray we are never revisited by such a spectre of a triple stacked Democrat Administration.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, hopefully Speaker Boehner will get some backbone and stand up to the faction when the US gets to the abyss of the fiscal cliff once again. We shall see.


Hopefully he will have the backbone to stand with the Tea Party this time. His backbone was lacking in caving to Obama.


----------



## CubaMark

Y'know, Marx was a pretty prescient dude...

_*... the rule of the bourgeois democrats, from the very first, will carry within it the seeds of its own destruction, and its subsequent displacement by the proletariat will be made considerably easier..*_

(Karl Marx, Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League (1850))


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Y'know, Marx was a pretty prescient dude...
> 
> _*... the rule of the bourgeois democrats, from the very first, will carry within it the seeds of its own destruction, and its subsequent displacement by the proletariat will be made considerably easier..*_
> 
> (Karl Marx, Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League (1850))


Sure, but the proletariat is the Tea Party.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Sure, but the proletariat is the Tea Party.


*Funny!* ...but wrong.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> *Funny!* ...but wrong.


it's what they want you to believe. How people actually fall for this line is beyond me, but the corp etc sure don't mind!

We cant afford healthcare for all you working stiffs! hell no, and keep our taxes low! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Obamacare website failure...

Tech ‘surge’ to tackle Obamacare websites



> The Obama administration Sunday said it’s called on “the best and brightest” tech experts from both government and the private sector to help fix the troubled website at the root of the Obamacare enrollment problems.
> 
> The unusual Sunday 600-word blog post from the Department of Health and Human Services was the first update in more than a week on the many failings of an expensive website that HHS itself described as “frustrating for many Americans.” But it didn’t specify whom the administration had called in, or when the American people would see clear-cut results on HealthCare.gov.


Whoops! President Infomercial: You guys, just use the phone for Obamacare; Guess what happens

So, the website doesn't work, they provide an 800 number. When you call the 800 number, they refer you to the borked website...

13 of the Most Embarrassing Obamacare Launch Failures

And, finally, the most racially divisive president evah?

Unreal: Obamacare Spends Millions Of Taxpayer Dollars To Match Doctors, Patients Along Racial Lines



> This one is almost beyond belief, millions allocated to achieve “racial concordance”-matching doctors and patients along racial lines and providing grants, contracts and other taxpayer-funded subsidies to “eliminate racial and ethnic disparities”.


----------



## FeXL

And what do they have to show for it?

US Has Spent $3.7 Trillion on Welfare Over Past 5 Years



> It bears repeating: You can’t fix poverty by giving people money.


----------



## FeXL

So, Obama's solution to fix 5 million lines of not working website code is to import the "Tech Surge", a bunch of geeks, programmers, whatever, to rescue his sorry butt from this disaster. A bit on that:

Oh, by the way: The “tech surge” isn’t going to rescue the ObamaCare website

It's not going to happen overnight, or next week, or next month. Next year, maybe...

And, on price increases:

Sticker Shock: Obamacare Increases Premiums in 42 States



> Gonshorowski’s analysis shows the hardest hit by the rate increases will be young adults. The ACA increases premiums for young people in at least 11 states by more than 100 percent. Many states double or nearly triple premiums for young adults. Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, and Vermont see some of the largest increases in premiums in the nation.


So, they need the younger generation to sign up in droves in order to offset the added costs of the older generations, yet they charge their backsides off for the privilege. Thx, but no thx...


----------



## Macfury

Hilarious--last week, Obama was claiming that Ted Cruz was trying to destroy the government by holding out for a delay in the individual mandate.

Now:

Surprise: Senate Democrats Want an Obamacare Delay - Katie Pavlich



> Several Democratic senators are calling on the Obama administration to delay enforcement of the health care law's individual mandate, joining their Republican colleagues in saying it would be unfair to penalize Americans for failing to buy insurance when the primary sign-up website doesn't work.
> 
> The Democratic dominoes began to fall quickly Wednesday, after Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., circulated a letter urging President Obama to extend enrollment beyond March 31, 2014.
> 
> Sen. Mark Pryor, D-Ark., in a statement released late Wednesday, said: "I believe, given the technical issues, it makes sense to extend the time for people to sign up."


----------



## FeXL

I've read a number of blog articles from conservative sites regarding a possible delay of the enrolment date. Every one of them have said the same thing: No. Let the Democrats own this fubar completely & entirely, from the screwed up start to the lies about keeping your own doctor to the lies about costs not increasing to the coverups to whatever else is going to be revealed in the coming months right on down to the bitter end.

I agree.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> So, Obama's solution to fix 5 million lines of not working website code is to import the "Tech Surge", a bunch of geeks, programmers, whatever, to rescue his sorry butt from this disaster. A bit on that:
> 
> Oh, by the way: The “tech surge” isn’t going to rescue the ObamaCare website
> 
> It's not going to happen overnight, or next week, or next month. Next year, maybe...
> 
> And, on price increases:
> 
> Sticker Shock: Obamacare Increases Premiums in 42 States
> 
> 
> 
> So, they need the younger generation to sign up in droves in order to offset the added costs of the older generations, yet they charge their backsides off for the privilege. Thx, but no thx...


You can mail your $4000 bank draft to the International Ripoff Service, aka: "The worlds largest terrorist organization".


----------



## Dr.G.

The Barack Obama big spender myth - World - CBC News

An interesting article. I am sure it will cause a big stir, both in the US and here in ehMacLand. Still, I agree with Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

"The assumption also seems to underpin a lot of popular journalism. Articles here on the deranged political brinkmanship of the past few weeks would often nod toward the idea that, whatever the tactics employed by the Tea Party extremists, their primary concern about America's disastrous fiscal escalation was correct.

Well. To quote the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, everyone's entitled to his own opinions, but not to his own facts.

And the fact is that while government spending here did seem out of control just a few years ago, it is now declining, two years in a row in fact. So is the deficit, sharply."


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> The Barack Obama big spender myth - World - CBC News
> 
> An interesting article. I am sure it will cause a big stir, both in the US and here in ehMacLand. Still, I agree with Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
> 
> "The assumption also seems to underpin a lot of popular journalism. Articles here on the deranged political brinkmanship of the past few weeks would often nod toward the idea that, whatever the tactics employed by the Tea Party extremists, their primary concern about America's disastrous fiscal escalation was correct.
> 
> Well. To quote the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, everyone's entitled to his own opinions, but not to his own facts.
> 
> And the fact is that while government spending here did seem out of control just a few years ago, it is now declining, two years in a row in fact. So is the deficit, sharply."


Reversing the out control massive spend engine put in place by the republicans had to have been a pretty tough one given where the US was economically when Obama took over.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Reversing the out control massive spend engine put in place by the republicans had to have been a pretty tough one given where the US was economically when Obama took over.


True. I liked the analogy that when Pres. Obama took over, Pres. Bush threw him the keys to the White House limo, which was burning up, and said "She's all yours now."

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Barack Obama big spender myth - World - CBC News
> 
> Well. To quote the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, everyone's entitled to his own opinions, but not to his own facts.


The CBC is entitled to its own opinion, However, when you use the trick of using the first year in Obama's office--the one with stimulus spending--as the baseline, you can produce these false numbers purporting low increases.

Dr. G., if I begin my term of office with a one-time stimulus package of $500-billion, then decide that it permanently raises the baseline, any subsequent increases appear minuscule. As well, Nutting fail to adjust for inflation. If inflation is 5% and spending increases 4%, it represents a reduction in spending. Obama is operating with inflation rates at record lows.

His spending record stands.


----------



## FeXL

Finally. Well after a year since the murder of 4 Americans, one of the MSM actually investigates.

60 Minutes confirms Benghazi is a real scandal, and you’ve been lied to



> 60 Minutes had an absolutely devastating report on the Obama administration’s failure to protect Ambassador Chris Stevens and other Americans in Benghazi.


Per the left's commonly held opinion that the CIC should resign after any scandal he or his underlings are responsible for, I expect the chantings of "Impeach Obama" to commence any second...

Further:

Report: First Western eyewitness in Benghazi to go public gives account of attack, warning signs



> The first Western eyewitness to the deadly Benghazi terror attacks has given an account of the seven-hour assault on the U.S. outpost in Libya and says Americans knew such an incident was inevitable.
> 
> The witness -- a former British soldier who for decades helped protect U.S. diplomats and military leaders -- told CBS’ “60 Minutes” that Al Qaeda forces first attacked the U.S. Special Mission Compound in which Ambassador Christopher Stevens was killed. Then they launched a second attack on a secret CIA annex about a mile across the city.
> 
> “They knew what they were doing,” the security guard told CBS. “That was a well-executed attack.”


Heads need to roll for this.


----------



## FeXL

A timely (horror) video on Obamacare.


----------



## FeXL

Real life stories on Obamacare fallout.

The Definitive Guide to How Obamacare is Destroying American Lives



> On Sunday night, I wrote a short post soliciting stories from my readers about how Obamacare has already immediately impacted their lives. I asked that all of these emails be directed to [email protected]. I expected a response; I didn’t expect it to be quite so overwhelming.
> 
> Over the last 24 hours, my inbox has been flooded with hundreds of emails.


I'm going to quote only one anecdote from the link. I chose it specifically to further refute the BS that businesses are not capping hours in direct response to Obamacare.



> KB, Illinois:
> 
> The company I work for has capped all 250+ part time employees to 25 hours a week so that even if they go over a little, they still won’t top the 30 hour “full time” designation. Employees who were struggling to pay bills while working 35 hours a week now get written up if they go over 25 hours a week. Thank you, Obamacare.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm no great fan of Obama or pretty much anything his administration has done. 

The criticisms (real and manufactured) of Obamacare lead me to one conclusion: the entire system should be scrapped and replaced by fully socialized medicine. Universal healthcare. Eliminate the insurance _companies_ that are in it for profit, not for health care. 

What they have had, and what they are implementing, is simply more of the for-profit same old crap. As with public utilities, health care should not be in the hands of for-profit corporations.... because their "bottom line" is *never* the patients'... er, I mean, the _clients'_ state of well-being.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm no great fan of Obama or pretty much anything his administration has done.
> 
> The criticisms (real and manufactured) of Obamacare lead me to one conclusion: the entire system should be scrapped and replaced by fully socialized medicine. Universal healthcare. Eliminate the insurance _companies_ that are in it for profit, not for health care.
> 
> What they have had, and what they are implementing, is simply more of the for-profit same old crap. As with public utilities, health care should not be in the hands of for-profit corporations.... because their "bottom line" is *never* the patients'... er, I mean, the _clients'_ state of well-being.


It leads me to one conclusion--the ridiculous semi-socialized system set up by Nixon should be scrapped in favour of privatized health care, with the government supplying socialized medicine only for catastrophic care.

Saying that a patient's wellbeing is_ never _the focus of private insurance is as odd as suggesting that it _is_ the focus of a socialized system.


----------



## eMacMan

As much as they hate the Canadian system, it is exactly what Congress ordered up for its own.

Obushma Care was written to fail•

Um in the US anything beyond a basic physical would qualify as catastrophic. Has something to do with billing at ten times the rate they expect to collect.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> I'm no great fan of Obama or pretty much anything his administration has done.
> 
> The criticisms (real and manufactured) of Obamacare lead me to one conclusion: the entire system should be scrapped and replaced by fully socialized medicine. Universal healthcare. Eliminate the insurance _companies_ that are in it for profit, not for health care.
> 
> What they have had, and what they are implementing, is simply more of the for-profit same old crap. As with public utilities, health care should not be in the hands of for-profit corporations.... because their "bottom line" is *never* the patients'... er, I mean, the _clients'_ state of well-being.


agreed. Privatized healthcare like any for profit business is purely about how little can you give for the most amount of money.

hough there are those who still think corporations have heart, they're real people too. If you give them a tax cut, they'll give back by creating jobs, and lowering prices, alternatively, they'll (GASP!) raise prices if you raise corporate taxes.

People have been conditioned quite well!


----------



## FeXL

Further on Obama's lies about Obamacare.

Losing your health plan was baked into Obamacare regs



> The loss of health plans was not just a coincidence, however, or a mere byproduct of health plan mandates requiring people to buy coverage they don’t want or need (although that was a root cause).
> 
> Rather the Obama administration passed regulations that guaranteed people would lose their health plans.


Obama Knew Millions Would Lose Coverage: Media Did Nothing



> Buried in Obamacare regulations from *July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy.* And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”


Bold from the link.

Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance



> Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC News that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”


And this, my favorite:

Obama Takes Friendly Fire



> "Dem Party is F****d." That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill.


Own it, Barry...


----------



## FeXL

And, further on Benghazi.

Report: Obama Watched Benghazi Attack From 'Situation Room'



> Lt. Col. Tony Schafer told Fox News that sources were telling him that the President was watching the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya in real-time. Schafer told Fox that "only the President" could have ordered backup for the Americans who were under siege by terrorists so the President was most certainly informed of the situation as it was unfolding. "I hate to say this," Schafer said, "according to my sources, yes, [the President] was one of those in the White House situation room in real-time watching this. And the question becomes, *'What did the President do or not do in the moments he saw this unveiling?'*


Bold mine.

What, indeed...


----------



## FeXL

More on Obamacare. First on the fear MSM has of Obama's position (can't make him look bad), second on the F-word, third on Democrat spin, spin, spin...

Under Pressure From The White House, NBC Throws Its Reporter Under the Bus and Censors News



> But what is hugely damning and very important going forward is not that Obama knew, but that Obama made this happen, and could unmake it with a phone call, but chooses not to.
> 
> The White House's pushback on this point demonstrates that they understand how important this part of Lisa Meyers' report is.
> 
> This also illustrates how politically compromised NBC News is -- that they would throw their reporter under the bus and redact her story even though it was 100% right. I imagine Lisa Meyers had to fight like a demon to get a true story reported by NBC.


Big Government once again turns on its Little Partners



> But that is _fascism_, or at least its economic theory, distilled to its very essence. ObamaCare imposes huge new mandatory costs upon insurance companies. Obama’s Department of Health and Human Services promulgated regulations that force insurance companies to “change existing plans.” The rules were deliberately set up in such a way that most insurance plans fall into the regulatory trap automatically as they age. HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has discretion over these regulations, but she will not exercise it, and President Obama will not ask her to.


See, this way it's the insurance companies' fault, not Obama's...

Top Dem Admits: ‘We Knew’



> House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer conceded to reporters today that Democrats knew people would not be able to keep their current health care plans under Obamacare and expressed qualified contrition for President Obama’s repeated vows to the contrary.


----------



## FeXL

Further on WH pressure to eliminate criticism of Obamacare by insurers.

CNN: Insurance Insiders ‘Fear Retribution’ from WH Amid Pressure to ‘Keep Quiet’ About Obamacare



> “If an insurance executive is quoted, speaks out, says anything negative about the Obamacare roll-out, they, or more likely their bosses, are to get a call from inside the White House asking them to explain the comments,” Griffin reported. *“It’s being perceived as pressure to keep quiet.”*


Bold mine

Ya think?


----------



## Macfury

> But what is hugely damning and very important going forward is not that Obama knew, but that Obama made this happen, and could unmake it with a phone call, but chooses not to.
> 
> The White House's pushback on this point demonstrates that they understand how important this part of Lisa Meyers' report is.
> 
> This also illustrates how politically compromised NBC News is -- that they would throw their reporter under the bus and redact her story even though it was 100% right. I imagine Lisa Meyers had to fight like a demon to get a true story reported by NBC.


NBC is, of course, owned by General Electric and getting multi-billion dollar green benefits from Obama.


----------



## FeXL

Wasn't really sure what thread to post this in but, seeing as it's Obama's decision to delay Keystone XL...

Canada Not Waiting For Obama’s Decision on Keystone XL



> But even if President Obama rejects the pipeline, it might not matter much. Oil companies are already building rail terminals to deliver oil from western Canada to the United States, and even to Asia.
> 
> Since July, plans have been announced for three large loading terminals in western Canada with the combined capacity of 350,000 barrels a day — equivalent to roughly 40 percent of the capacity of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline that is designed to bring oil from western Alberta to refineries along the Gulf Coast.
> 
> Over all, Canada is poised to quadruple its rail-loading capacity over the next few years to as much as 900,000 barrels a day, up from 180,000 today.


I've noted this before: It's oil. People are going to buy it. Whether it's the Chinese or the Americans. The logistics are merely the details...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I've noted this before: It's oil. People are going to buy it. Whether it's the Chinese or the Americans. The logistics are merely the details...


Oil is largely being driven south by rail from the Bakkens. Pipelines are safer, but for Obama, it's all about killing America's gas and oil advantage, not safety. If states didn't have the right to pursue energy policy on their own, Obama would already have taken a dump on Pennsylvania, Ohio, and North Dakota. Just when he thought he'd crushed the last of the coal jobs, cheap energy undermined his great plans for reducing the economy to 12th century energy sources.


----------



## FeXL

I wonder if it's Obama's mandate to offend all his former & current military personnel, or just most of them...

Navy SEALs ordered to remove ‘don’t tread on me’ Navy Jack from uniforms



> The Navy Jack is the ‘don’t tread on me’ flag, one that has earned a revered place in America’s naval history and a beloved place in sailor’s hearts, through its use for over two centuries. This symbol of America’s naval ferocity has spanned our country’s entire existence, flying from the masts of the Continental Navy during the war of independence, to today’s War on Terror. In fact, an amendment to the Navy code called SECNAV Instruction 10520.6 clearly states that as of 31 May 2002 all ships are to fly the flag throughout the duration of the War on Terror.


----------



## Macfury

It's just for a little while until the "Kick Me Hard" insignias are ready to be sewn to their pants.


----------



## FeXL

Another flaw in Obamacare.

The Obamacare meltdown continues: New report says most top hospitals won't accept Obamacare



> Most of the 18 hospitals on this year's U.S. News and World Report's Honor Roll will accept insurance from just one or two companies selling plans on the Affordable Care Act's (ACA) insurance exchanges, according to a Watchdog.org investigation.


----------



## FeXL

So, the dummy that the whole Obamacare website fiasco is being pinned on is, as you may have heard, Kathleen Sebelius. What, you expected Obama to stand up?

That said, she was given a copy of a book during a Memphis healthcare event: _Web Sites for Dummies._

Kathleen Sebelius gifted “Web Sites for Dummies” book

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Must remember this...


----------



## FeXL

Dawn strikes.

The Left’s Long Fall Back to Earth



> One by one the Left is realizing the demigod is just another demagogue, as the messianic president proves himself more inclined to deception than his promised delivery from “politics as usual.”
> 
> On Piers Morgan Live Wednesday, guest Arsenio Hall and host Morgan worked through the “sad” reality of the president and his administration. Morgan began the exchange by expressing his own heart-sinking disillusionment:
> 
> _Does your heart slightly sink that there’s this guy who came in on this almost messianic wave of this is going to change everything. He was going to change the way Washington worked. He was going to be transparent. I haven’t seen him be so untransparent about anything.
> 
> When you see all the video replays of him saying, “You can keep your doctor. You can keep your plan.” And we now know that three years ago they knew that that was complete nonsense. I feel disheartened. I feel let down by him. And I’m not even an American.​_


When the left has lost Piers Morgan & Arsenio Hall...

Sounds like the plaintive voice from California that's been all over the news, "I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it..."


----------



## FeXL

Watching the Virginia gubernatorial election closely...

Obama: ‘I Want To Put The Fear Of God In All Of You’

(If Obamacare hasn't already done that...)



> President Barack Obama cast Republican Ken Cuccinelli on Sunday as part of an extreme Tea Party faction that shut down the government, throwing the political weight of the White House behind Democrat Terry McAuliffe in the final days of a bitter race for governor.
> 
> “Nothing makes me more nervous than when my supporters start feeling too confident,” Obama said during the rally. “So I want to put the fear of God in all of you.”
> 
> *Seeking an upset, Cuccinelli cast this week’s Virginia gubernatorial election as a referendum on Obama’s troubled national health care law.*


My bold.

I agree.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Obamacare...

Ace nails it:

Woebamacare: 3.5 Million Have Already Lost the Insurance They Were Promised They Could Keep, And That Data Is From Only Half The States



> Democratic Representative Steve Cohen tells everyone who's been lied to to "Get over it." He also adds that Heathcare.gov isn't like ordering a "Tickle Me Elmo" doll from Amazon.com -- which is strange, because President Obama promised the website would be just like ordering a TV off Amazon.com.


More things buried in Obamacare rise to the surface:

Now we find out what’s in it: Obamacare’s taxpayer bailout for health insurers



> This helps explain why Obamacare is attractive enough for insurers to take the risk. They won’t recoup everything if it goes badly, but even if a plan’s costs are twice as great as the premiums collected, its losses are limited by this provision alone to 23.9 percent of premiums collected through 2016. (There are further provisions designed to mitigate losses by having plans with lower costs share the risk with plans that have higher costs, but none of that depends on the taxpayer.)


So, not only is the taxpayer on the hook for higher premiums & deductibles, but also for bailouts to the starving insurance companies...

Finally, comic Jackie Mason has a few words:

Famous comic flays Obama as lying 'maniac'



> “He’s saying things that nobody believes. He was always lying every day of his life. Every time he talks it was a lie. The only time he tells the truth is when you didn’t hear from him.”
> 
> “This is becoming so ridiculous, that even the biggest liar can’t top himself,” Mason, 76, told host Aaron Klein on WABC in New York City. “He looks at you straight in the face, and tells you that if you want your plan, you got your plan, you keep your plan. Now, a month-and-a-half later, you got no plan, you lost your plan, and he tells you you still got a plan.”


Further:



> “Never did I expect a guy like this, the head of a country, to blatantly lie to your face, and then not only lie to your face, then lie about the fact that he never lied. Then lie again about the next lie he told. There used to be a time when you would worship the president, even if you didn’t like him. You knew he told the truth because he’s the president of a country. Now, he’s the only guy in America who would have the nerve to lie this much.
> 
> *“You say to yourself, ‘Wait a second. Who am I listening to? Was this guy actually elected to the presidency? A man who’s completely out of his mind, who’s out of touch with humanity, with America, who doesn’t seem to know what’s going on here? Does he read a paper?’*


My bold.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Further on Obamacare...
> 
> Ace nails it:
> 
> Woebamacare: 3.5 Million Have Already Lost the Insurance They Were Promised They Could Keep, And That Data Is From Only Half The States
> 
> 
> 
> More things buried in Obamacare rise to the surface:
> 
> Now we find out what’s in it: Obamacare’s taxpayer bailout for health insurers
> 
> 
> 
> So, not only is the taxpayer on the hook for higher premiums & deductibles, but also for bailouts to the starving insurance companies...
> 
> Finally, comic Jackie Mason has a few words:
> 
> Famous comic flays Obama as lying 'maniac'
> 
> 
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> My bold.


Truthfully going back at least as far as LBJ the White House as a source of truth, has been an epic fail . Absolutely scary to realize that the only somewhat honest president since then was Jimmy Carter. With Reagan, both Bushes, and Obushma seemingly committed to policies of total deceit. Clinton and Nixon were marginally better, but only because the press had not yet been fully declawed.


----------



## groovetube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5BeMshuSeg#t=12


----------



## FeXL

So what?

See, groove, that's the problem with content-free posts like this. You've posted a link to a vid and absolutely nothing else explaining your motivation. Diddley-squat. 

Do you agree with the vid? Disagree? What's right with it? What's wrong with it? Did you just post it for information purposes? Are you attempting to be sarcastic with it? Is that your brother in the video? Did you direct the video? Was it your maternal great-aunt, twice removed, who spearheaded the group in the first place? Was it shot in your basement? Did you post it 'cause you liked the colour of the background?

WTF?


----------



## CubaMark

*FeXL:* citing Breitbart as a source is never a convincing proposition, man....

And this is rather interesting:

'60 Minutes' Benghazi Witness Admits To Changing His Story, Raising Questions About Broadcast


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *FeXL:* citing Breitbart as a source is never a convincing proposition, man....


But "Crooks and Liars" is? Come on, man...


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> *FeXL:* citing Breitbart as a source is never a convincing proposition, man....
> 
> And this is rather interesting:
> 
> '60 Minutes' Benghazi Witness Admits To Changing His Story, Raising Questions About Broadcast


Agreed. But it's head & shoulders above what many post here as "authoritative" sources. At least I posted something more than just a link to a video.

If it's low-hanging fruit, have at 'er.


----------



## FeXL

This really speaks for itself.

Delaware reports 4 enrollments under ObamaCare



> More than a month after the launch of Delaware's health insurance exchange, officials report only four Delawareans enrolled for insurance coverage under the Affordable Care Act.


Yup.


----------



## FeXL

Sixty-five years ago, Orwell nailed it.

Pro-Obamacare team trains reporters on covering Obamacare website problems



> Reporters with the Society of American Business Editors and Writers received "training" on how to cover Obamacare's rollout from a policy expert who works with President Obama's former health information technology adviser.


The news is no longer the news unless it's been sanitized by one of Obama's "experts".

Groupthink, anyone?


----------



## groovetube

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/b...rt-on-benghazi-attack.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Oh my. Heads are rolling for this I'm sure! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

I just love these.

Hitler finds out his health insurance has been cancelled...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USG_gjaEYak&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Link.[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Bret Baier of Fox News received an email from a gentleman in Kentucky. He was offering some perspective about the failed Obamacare website.

Here is the email I read on the air tonight



> "Putting things in perspective: March 21st 2010 to October 1 2013 is 3 years, 6 months, 10 days. December 7, 1941 to May 8, 1945 is 3 years, 5 months, 1 day. *What this means is that in the time we were attacked at Pearl Harbor to the day Germany surrendered is not enough time for this progressive federal government to build a working webpage.* Mobilization of millions, building tens of thousands of tanks, planes, jeeps, subs, cruisers, destroyers, torpedoes, millions upon millions of guns, bombs, ammo, etc. Turning the tide in North Africa, Invading Italy, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Race to Berlin - all while we were also fighting the Japanese in the Pacific!! And in that amount of time - this administration can't build a working webpage."


Bold mine.

Brilliant...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Another ObamaCare Success Story: Oregon Has Spent Over $300 Million to Sign Up Zero People



> A real bang for the buck here. What we’re seeing here is one of the greatest scams in history and we’re only scratching the surface of the massive levels of fraud, incompetence and criminal behavior.


----------



## FeXL

It was only a matter of time 'til the cockroaches ran from the limelight...

The ObamaCare Dozen-The Democrats who voted for the debacle are now scrambling for cover.



> The torrents of Affordable Care Act monsoon season aren't letting up, so Democrats are scrambling to help the victims: namely, their own careers. The Senators up for re-election in competitive states in 2014 are starting to panic, though they still aren't offering solutions for anything other than their own growing political jeopardy.


More:



> Fifteen Senate Democrats plus Colorado's Michael Bennet who chairs the Senatorial Campaign Committee sat down at the White House Wednesday, and *they want all and sundry to know that they let President Obama have it.*


I'll just bet...

Further:



> The ObamaCare Dozen are receiving an overdue education in the damaging consequences of the bill they supported, all of which were predicted by critics in 2010. Any one of these Senators could have prevented the current madness by voting no. And now the President they empowered to govern from the ideological left has rejected even their de minimis fixes and is promising to "grind it out" even if the problems get worse. These Senators deserve to be held accountable at the ballot box.


I guess we'll see if the free cell phone bunch will get angry enough not to vote for them.


----------



## FeXL

You bad sheeple! Bad, bad, sheeple! How dare you criticize Obama's lies...

NY Daily News Editorial Attacks America’s ‘Immaturity’ for Showing Anger Over Obamacare’s Lies



> We were just asking for it. This is, essentially, what Century Foundation fellow Michael Cohen took to the pages of the New York Daily News on Monday to say. In a profound scolding, Cohen diagnoses America’s “immaturity” as demonstrated by the backlash against President Barack Obama over to his oft-repeated and false claim that every American who was happy with their health insurance would be able to keep their health insurance.


Further:



> Chances are, however, that Cohen wrote what many of the president’s supporters think but dare not commit to paper – yet. That *those voters who are rejecting the president, evidenced in opinion polling and elsewhere, are undeserving of his genius and compassion.
> 
> That sense of superiority must be comforting in times like these.*


Bold mine.

Very comforting...


----------



## eMacMan

Look to be fair, under the American and yes Parliamentary System as well. No one gets to the top unless they are a pathological liar. BO and Harpo are not exceptions.

In the case of Obushma care the policy was written by and for the Medical Insurance Complex. All others were banned from negotiations. To expect anything other than what we are seeing would be pure insanity.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> In the case of Obushma care the policy was written by and for the Medical Insurance Complex. All others were banned from negotiations. To expect anything other than what we are seeing would be pure insanity.


What we need now is to have the auto industry force people to buy cars, with a penalty charged against the individual who wants to go shanks mare.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> What we need now is to have the auto industry force people to buy cars, with a penalty charged against the individual who wants to go shanks mare.


That's top rung on the Republirats agenda, immediately after the 2014 elections.


----------



## FeXL

I was watching a rerun of _Duck Dynasty_ last night. It was the one where Si handcuffs himself to Willie & every passing moment Jase enjoyed Willie's pain even more. This is known as “schadenfreude”-the joy one feels at the misfortune or failure of others.

You better believe I'm enjoying the fallout from the entirely single partisan Democrat supported fubar known as Obamacare. So are others:

Obamacare Schadenfreudarama 



> *If you can’t take some joy, some modicum of relief and mirth, in the unprecedentedly spectacular beclowning of the president, his administration, its enablers, and, to no small degree, liberalism itself, then you need to ask yourself why you’re following politics in the first place.* Because, frankly, this has been one of the most enjoyable political moments of my lifetime. I wake up in the morning and rush to find my just-delivered newspaper with a joyful expectation of worsening news so intense, I feel like Morgan Freeman should be narrating my trek to the front lawn. Indeed, not since Dan Rather handcuffed himself to a fraudulent typewriter, hurled it into the abyss, and saw his career plummet like Ted Kennedy was behind the wheel have I enjoyed a story more.


My bold.

Yup.

Lot's more:

Media’s Obamacare Supporters Vent About Their Cancelled Health Plans



> “My blood pressure goes up every time they say that they’re protecting us from substandard health insurance plans,” Powers told Bret Baier. “There is nothing to support what they’re saying.”
> 
> “I have talked to about how I’m losing my health insurance,” she continued. “If I want to keep the same health insurance, it’s going to cost twice as much. There’s nothing substandard about my plan.”
> 
> “All of the things they say that are not in my plan are in my plan,” Powers lamented. “All of the things they have listed — there’s no explanation for doubling my premiums other than the fact that it’s subsidizing other people. They need to be honest about that.”


Helluva thing, hindsight...

Further:

CNN source: If White House doesn’t have solution to canceled plans by Friday, Dems may vote for GOP’s “Keep Your Plan Act”



> The “Keep Your Plan Act” is Fred Upton’s bill, which Jay Carney spent a few minutes attacking at today’s press briefing because it would make canceled plans available to all consumers, not just the ones who’d been enrolled in those plans before. That would be a disaster for the insurance industry. Healthy people would flee the new, more expensive plans for the resurrected cheaper ones, leaving no one in the new risk pool except sick people with very expensive treatments. That means either heavy losses for insurers, steep premium hikes next year to make up the difference, or some sort of federal bailout (congrats, red-state Democrats!) — or maybe a little of all three. You’ll have the same problem, though, albeit to a lesser extent, even if Upton’s bill is amended so that it applies only to people who’d been enrolled in a particular plan before it was cancelled. You can’t run a two-tiered healthy/sick insurance system. If the risk pools aren’t merged, replete with higher rates for the former, you can’t pay for the latter.


Can't wait to see tomorrow's headlines...


----------



## FeXL

How's that economy doing, BTW?

Obama’s Economy: Wall Street Thrives, Main Street Dies



> The man at the center of the storm has blown a giant hole in the notion that the Obama administration is looking out for middle class Americans. “Andrew Huszar: Confessions of a Quantitative Easer,” is a piece written for the Wall Street Journal by Huszar himself, revealing that he was the person responsible “for executing the centerpiece program of the Fed’s first plunge into the bond-buying experiment known as quantitative easing.”
> 
> Four years later, the scales have fallen from his eyes. *“The central bank continues to spin QE as a tool for helping Main Street,” Huszar writes. “But I’ve come to recognize the program for what it really is: the greatest backdoor Wall Street bailout of all time.”*


Your tax dollars at work.

Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

And, to make you smile as I close down for the night.

Scandal? What Scandal?


----------



## FeXL

This could be awkward...

Uh, oh: Detroit’s bankruptcy filing may be rejected



> _After a nine-day trial, Judge Steven Rhodes must decide whether Detroit really qualifies for the court’s help to fix its awful long-term finances — including $18 billion debt. Although they haven’t offered specifics, officials predict a “free-fall crisis” if the city is found ineligible and warn that the improved services, such as those streetlights, could suffer. …
> 
> “If the bankruptcy is disallowed, frankly, expect all hell to break loose,” said Anthony Sabino, a lawyer who teaches business law at St. John’s University in New York. “Detroit will be at the mercy of its creditors in individual lawsuits spread amongst federal and state courts. That chaos alone could doom the city.”
> 
> He compares it to animals in the wild — “wolves rending the carcass piece by piece.”_​


----------



## groovetube

Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food - Business Insider

Yeah let's give corporate more tax breaks.


----------



## Macfury

Another case of failure to read:



> Correction: The original version of this story stated that Wal-Mart was asking customers to donate food. The food drive is actually among employees.


----------



## groovetube

Yes that's why the title says exactly that.

Goad FAIL.


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the issue. Wal-Mart workers voluntarily helping out other Wal-Mart workers. Is that a problem?

And, if you go to the site that first reported the story you find out that Wal-Mart has a fund that helps employees:



> Lundberg said holding the food drive at the Canton Walmart was decided at the store level. However, the effort could be considered in line with what happens company-wide. The Associates in Critical Need Trust is funded by Walmart employee contributions that can be given through payroll deduction. He said employees can receive grants up to $1,500 to address hardships they may encounter, including homelessness, serious medical illnesses and major repairs to primary vehicles. Since 2001, grants totaling $80 million have been made.


I don't understand your point. Are you saying that if you worked at a place for minimum wage & they put out containers asking for help for fellow employees in hardship, you wouldn't contribute?

As to the shortage of hours, if Obamacare wouldn't be penalizing full time workers & employers thereof with exorbitant medical insurance expenses, there would be far less of this in the first place.

You go on & on parroting the whole "corporate tax breaks issue" when you don't have a clew what the hell is the cause or the effect...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> I fail to see the issue. Wal-Mart workers voluntarily helping out other Wal-Mart workers. Is that a problem?
> 
> And, if you go to the site that first reported the story you find out that Wal-Mart has a fund that helps employees:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your point. Are you saying that if you worked at a place for minimum wage & they put out containers asking for help for fellow employees in hardship, you wouldn't contribute?
> 
> As to the shortage of hours, if Obamacare wouldn't be penalizing full time workers & employers thereof with exorbitant medical insurance expenses, there would be far less of this in the first place.
> 
> You go on & on parroting the whole "corporate tax breaks issue" when you don't have a clew what the hell is the cause or the effect...


Wally World was championing the 31 hour work week long before anyone had heard of Obushma. Not only does it mean big savings on health care, but vacation and sick time as well.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Wally World was championing the 31 hour work week long before anyone had heard of Obushma. Not only does it mean big savings on health care, but vacation and sick time as well.


Perhaps they were but it still doesn't address his first & foremost issue, workers voluntarily helping workers.

Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head & saying, "Bring me groceries, sucka...".


----------



## groovetube

Zimmerman due in court after allegedly pointing gun at girlfriend - CNN.com

Ah yes, that so innocent guy arrested, again. This time, girlfriend number 3 is 'crazy'. Funny that.


----------



## CubaMark

Certainly says something about Zimmerman's fan base... various in this community included...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Certainly says something about Zimmerman's fan base... various in this community included...


Being found innocent of a crime, is no reason for a louse to stop being a louse.


----------



## FeXL

The stink is not going away...

Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report



> In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.
> 
> The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. *The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated*


Bold mine.

Yeah, there's a surprise.

Not.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

One of my fav Robbie Burn's -

http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2008/oct/13/poem-of-the-week


----------



## FeXL

On Keystone XL.

Senate Dems urge Obama to approve Keystone XL pipeline

First, a good laugh:



> President Obama boasted last week that the U.S. now produces more oil domestically than it imports, partly crediting his administration’s policies aimed at lowering the country’s reliance on foreign oil.


The reason this is so funny is that Obama has all but killed development on gov't lands. The growth has all been in the private sector. Don't worry, though, he'll take credit for it.

That said, he's taking heat from the Dems to change his mind on KXL:



> “It just makes sense,” added West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin. “First of all, our friendliest nation Canada has oil. They’re going to produce it and they’re going to sell it. And I’d rather buy it from my friends than my enemies. So this is more of a security thing.”


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> The stink is not going away...
> 
> Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> Yeah, there's a surprise.
> 
> Not.


Both Canada and stateside these numbers have been blatantly falsified for decades. True figures on the soused side of 49 are closer to the 20% range.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Both Canada and stateside these numbers have been blatantly falsified for decades. True figures on the soused side of 49 are closer to the 20% range.


lol like this has never ever occurred before! There are so many ways to spin and manipulate jobs numbers, that it's difficult at times to take those reports with any degree of seriousness.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> lol like this has never ever occurred before! There are so many ways to spin and manipulate jobs numbers, that it's difficult at times to take those reports with any degree of seriousness.


So that makes it OK to lie again? Especially going into an election?

It's only difficult for those who don't understand how the system is being played.


----------



## groovetube

Joel Daigle stole tools, war rifles and some DVDs

Welcome to the world of mandatory sentencing.


----------



## Macfury

Thanks to the work of gun-phobic liberals any crime involving a gun--even stealing an empty gun--sets you up for mandatory sentencing.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Thanks to the work of gun-phobic liberals any crime involving a gun--even stealing an empty gun--sets you up for mandatory sentencing.


Nope that's a con job. The Harpo way to con vince those wimpy Torontonians that more gun control is not needed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Thanks to the work of gun-phobic liberals any crime involving a gun--even stealing an empty gun--sets you up for mandatory sentencing.


Exactly. The law is the law. By all means, change it. Until then, obey it.


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> Nope that's a con job. The Harpo way to con vince those wimpy Torontonians that more gun control is not needed.


Yup. They think 'puttin the bad guy' in jail is a better option. Y'know, people will obey it if they make a law... Unfortunately, clear examples show it's an utter failure.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Nope that's a con job. The Harpo way to con vince those wimpy Torontonians that more gun control is not needed.


American political thread. Small "l".


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> American political thread. Small "l".


As you may have noticed that was a response to the FUD you had posted.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> As you may have noticed that was a response to the FUD you had posted.


So in the U.S., it was conservative Republicans who pushed for mandatory sentences involving gun crimes?


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Unfortunately, clear examples show it's an utter failure.


What's an utter failure? Explain yourself.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What's an utter failure? Explain yourself.



"I donno"


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> "I donno"


Jeezuz, without context, he could be talking about his clean underwear routine failing. And, again, he wonders why people are critical... 

One more content free post brought to you by everybody's favourite victim, groovetube.


----------



## groovetube

That One Time When A Company With A Gajillion Dollars Tried Collecting Food Donations For Its Staff

Upworthy is carrying this bit.

It's pretty sad that a company with the profits of walmart, pays it's staff so little that they have to have it's employees run charities for it's staff that don't have enough to do thanksgiving.

Gotta give 'em more corporate tax cuts! Apparently, trickle down is now 'trickle downing' from co-workers now.


----------



## FeXL

Where is the evidence that Wal-Mart is sponsoring these food drives? 

The last time you posted on this topic, a connecting article noted that fellow employees were doing this on their own, not Wal-Mart. Whatever issues you may have with Wal-Mart, they aren't the ones hosting the food drive.

Defend your contention or STFU.

BTW, you also never responded to my question re: your post. I'll repeat it here, in case you missed it:



> Are you saying that if you worked at a place for minimum wage & they put out containers asking for help for fellow employees in hardship, you wouldn't contribute?


----------



## FeXL

Shocked, I tell ya...

Dem staffers on Capitol Hill shocked, shocked at ObamaCare costs



> _ Veteran House Democratic aides are sick over the insurance prices they’ll pay under Obamacare, and they’re scrambling to find a cure.
> 
> “In a shock to the system, the older staff in my office (folks over 59) have now found out their personal health insurance costs (even with the government contribution) have gone up 3-4 times what they were paying before,” Minh Ta, chief of staff to Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wis.), wrote to fellow Democratic chiefs of staff in an email message obtained by POLITICO. “Simply unacceptable.”_​


An old saw about chickens & roots come to mind...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Where is the evidence that Wal-Mart is sponsoring these food drives?
> 
> The last time you posted on this topic, a connecting article noted that fellow employees were doing this on their own, not Wal-Mart. Whatever issues you may have with Wal-Mart, they aren't the ones hosting the food drive.


Yes, he completely misrepresented it--probably because he didn't read it. It was accompanied by some incomprehensible blubbering about corporate taxes. The headline was the "shiny ball" that attracted his attention, I guess.


----------



## FeXL

Brilliant. Now he wants to do away with it entirely. As if $17,214,182,156,555 and change isn't quite enough. But, but, but, it's all those corporate tax cuts!

Obama: Let's Scrap the Debt Ceiling



> President Barack Obama told the Wall Street Journal's CEO Council meeting on Tuesday that the U.S. should scrap the debt ceiling, which he described as a "loaded gun" creating perpetual crisis in American politics. “We’re probably better off with a system in which that threat is not there on a perpetual basis,” he said.


Here's a thought on raising (or eliminating) the debt ceiling:


----------



## Adrian.

FeXL said:


> Where is the evidence that Wal-Mart is sponsoring these food drives?
> 
> The last time you posted on this topic, a connecting article noted that fellow employees were doing this on their own, not Wal-Mart. Whatever issues you may have with Wal-Mart, they aren't the ones hosting the food drive.
> 
> Defend your contention or STFU.
> 
> BTW, you also never responded to my question re: your post. I'll repeat it here, in case you missed it:


I think it's besides the point whether the food drive for its employees is an corporate endorsed or initiated project. The point is that there are a sufficient number of people working at that store who cannot afford food that there is an organized effort to put enough food together. 

In any event, if management is aware of the employee initiated project and has not actively refused to allow it on corporate land, it seems to be a reasonable argument that the (local) management does not oppose it and perhaps endorses it. 

This place has really gone down hill since the last time I was here. Now people can't put links up without being told to shut the **** up.


----------



## Macfury

Adrian. said:


> I think it's besides the point whether the food drive for its employees is an corporate endorsed or initiated project. The point is that there are a sufficient number of people working at that store who cannot afford food that there is an organized effort to put enough food together.


No, that's not it at all. The food drive was for people who had families who had suffered other hardships, such as spouses who had lost a job. Wal-Mart is not responsible for taking care of an employee's entire family.


----------



## Macfury

Adrian. said:


> Now people can't put links up without being told to shut the **** up.


They can if ihey don't act like ********* all the time.


----------



## groovetube

Adrian. said:


> I think it's besides the point whether the food drive for its employees is an corporate endorsed or initiated project. The point is that there are a sufficient number of people working at that store who cannot afford food that there is an organized effort to put enough food together.
> 
> In any event, if management is aware of the employee initiated project and has not actively refused to allow it on corporate land, it seems to be a reasonable argument that the (local) management does not oppose it and perhaps endorses it.
> 
> This place has really gone down hill since the last time I was here. Now people can't put links up without being told to shut the **** up.


Yeah, but I just ignore it. I don't take orders from that crew, I'll post whatever the hell I want. The article is painfully clear but perhaps not everyone's cup of tea. Supporting the outright raping and pillaging of the people by corporations by thinking that they'll magically do the right thing is clearly not working, this article offers just a glimpse into that backwards position.


----------



## Macfury

Step right up, ladies and gents! See the Low Information Poster in his native habitat!


----------



## groovetube

Adrian. said:


> I think it's besides the point whether the food drive for its employees is an corporate endorsed or initiated project. The point is that there are a sufficient number of people working at that store who cannot afford food that there is an organized effort to put enough food together.
> 
> In any event, if management is aware of the employee initiated project and has not actively refused to allow it on corporate land, it seems to be a reasonable argument that the (local) management does not oppose it and perhaps endorses it.
> 
> This place has really gone down hill since the last time I was here. Now people can't put links up without being told to shut the **** up.


See, stuff like this is just like catnip to these jokers. Within minutes they're drooling.


----------



## Adrian.

Macfury said:


> Step right up, ladies and gents! See the Low Information Poster in his native habitat!


You're a total loser and a bully. It's sad to see a presumably grown man communicating with others like you do.

To the mods, please cancel my account if you wish. I won't be using it anymore.


----------



## groovetube

Now cue the mockery of leaving. Seen it so many times it's like predicting daylight.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Now cue the mockery of leaving. Seen it so many times it's like predicting daylight.


Careful, mon ami. There might come a morning when the sun does not rise in the eastern horizon. We shall see. Paix.


----------



## groovetube

Very true.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Now cue the mockery of leaving. Seen it so many times it's like predicting daylight.


Isn't it odd that your predictions seldom are accurate? There is a message there somewhere if you look hard enough.


----------



## groovetube

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/w...-deal-hang-in-balance.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Pretty big news (except perhaps for republicans who were happier with more sanctions, boogie man y'know...)


----------



## Macfury

Pretty big news for people who are OK with Iran being given more than $4 billion in exchange for:
* continuing to enriching uranium to a level of 3.5% over the short run 
* not accepting a level of inspection recommended by the International Atomic Energy Agency 
* recognizing Iran's right to continue to enrich uranium forever.

"Peace in our time!"


----------



## Macfury

"If you like your uranium refinery, you can keep it."

--President Obama


----------



## groovetube

Wow, a real, freedom fighter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LwR0c-CE5g


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> No, that's not it at all. The food drive was for people who had families who had suffered other hardships, such as spouses who had lost a job. Wal-Mart is not responsible for taking care of an employee's entire family.


Bingo...


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> See, stuff like this is just like catnip to these jokers. Within minutes they're drooling.


More like cat crap...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> More like cat crap...


Exactly. I'm just dumping a massive kitty litter bomb on the verbal diarrhea of that post.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Wow, a real, freedom fighter!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LwR0c-CE5g


The ultimate libertarian. Hopefully, they don't run a red light. I would hate to see him in Traffic Court.


----------



## Macfury

There are some important issues on the table here. Glad to see there's some consistency on the part of the OP in the failure to comprehend--or even comment--on them.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> The ultimate libertarian. Hopefully, they don't run a red light. I would hate to see him in Traffic Court.


That would be something to see. Though, there are a number of other you tubes of a few similar situations.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> That would be something to see. Though, there are a number of other you tubes of a few similar situations.


I wonder how he avoids paying federal and state gasoline taxes on the car, or car registration fees, or insurance .............. or even how he feels about using publically funded roads and highways??? That is the weak link in the sort of argument he puts forth ....... it is OK for the rest of us to work and pay the taxes to pay for these sorts of infrastructure, but he uses them freely and without consequence. In this sense, he is no better than the wealthy person who shelters/hides his/her money in off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes, or the person who is able to work, and is offered work, but chooses instead to misuse the social safety net and just live off of social assistance.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder how he avoids paying federal and state gasoline taxes on the car, or car registration fees, or insurance .............. or even how he feels about using publically funded roads and highways??? That is the weak link in the sort of argument he puts forth ....... it is OK for the rest of us to work and pay the taxes to pay for these sorts of infrastructure, but he uses them freely and without consequence. In this sense, he is no better than the wealthy person who shelters/hides his/her money in off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes, or the person who is able to work, and is offered work, but chooses instead to misuse the social safety net and just live off of social assistance.


Agreed in full.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder how he avoids paying federal and state gasoline taxes on the car, or car registration fees, or insurance .............. or even how he feels about using publically funded roads and highways??? That is the weak link in the sort of argument he puts forth ....... it is OK for the rest of us to work and pay the taxes to pay for these sorts of infrastructure, but he uses them freely and without consequence. In this sense, he is no better than the wealthy person who shelters/hides his/her money in off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes, or the person who is able to work, and is offered work, but chooses instead to misuse the social safety net and just live off of social assistance.


This is a pretty oddball set of assumptions. He said he caught a fish to feed himself.
This is what we know.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is a pretty oddball set of assumptions. He said he caught a fish to feed himself.
> This is what we know.


The video is raw footage of Ernie Wayne Tertelgte at his “visitation” in Three Forks Justice Court, where is charged for fishing without a license, but he maintains that he belongs under natural and universal law where he is entitled to feed himself and fend for himself without some “license.” Montana law requires him to do this, but he should have used the 10th Amendment to foster his case (i.e., "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people".) He should have said that he was being denied the protection of the US Constitution, which enshrines the concept set forth in the Declaration of Independence of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" . The phrase gives examples of the various "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says all human beings have been given by their Creator and for the protection of which they institute governments.

However, as a "universal man", he feels that governments, be they federal, state or local, have no claims upon him, and thus, their laws are moot when it comes to his freedoms.

So, he may get a free ride by not paying his taxes, and somehow, I assume, not paying fees to drive or get insurance, but they take illegal fishing quite seriously in Montana. 

As I said, he is the ultimate libertarian, and he has that right to describe himself with this term .............. just as I have the right to swing my arm in front of me, back and forth, in and out, with my eyes closed as I walk forward. However, my right to do this with my arm stops at the point of someone's nose. Then, my universal right turns into an act of assault.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder how he avoids paying federal and state gasoline taxes on the car, or car registration fees, or insurance .............. or even how he feels about using publically funded roads and highways??? That is the weak link in the sort of argument he puts forth ....... it is OK for the rest of us to work and pay the taxes to pay for these sorts of infrastructure, but he uses them freely and without consequence.


I guess this is why First Nations residents are way out of line. We gave them roads and bridges, fishing licenses, modern regulations and the CBC--yet still they feel it is unfair to be taxed to pay for these things


----------



## FeXL

Adrian. said:


> I think it's besides the point whether the food drive for its employees is an corporate endorsed or initiated project. The point is that there are a sufficient number of people working at that store who cannot afford food that there is an organized effort to put enough food together.


You've noted that you won't be back but I'd like to address this further anyway.

Groove's intent is to throw this into Wal-Mart's lap because he feels they don't pay high enough wages and, on top of this malfeasance, the Big Scary Corporation™ is asking their employees to reach into their pockets & shell out support. That is patently incorrect. Yes, Wal-Mart is hosting these efforts onsite but the movement is spearheaded entirely by the employees, *not* the corporation.



Adrian. said:


> In any event, if management is aware of the employee initiated project and has not actively refused to allow it on corporate land, it seems to be a reasonable argument that the (local) management does not oppose it and perhaps endorses it.


I agree. However, they are not the initiative behind it, as groove incorrectly notes.



Adrian. said:


> This place has really gone down hill since the last time I was here. Now people can't put links up without being told to shut the **** up.


The reason I put it in those terms is that groove spouted the same garbage (obviously incorrect from the cross link in his OP a few days back) & refused to support his contention then. He continues with the same drivel here, despite offering no evidence, again.

He has had his contention refuted by at least two of us with supporting evidence and yet he continues the same tired stream of misinformation. If you're wrong, you're wrong. Get over it, accept it graciously & move on. 

However, by groove's own words, he doesn't back down from anything. At best this is just foolish, the behaviour of a recalcitrant three year old. At worst it's insecure pathological obsession with being right, hence his "never wrong" disorder. He sees himself as a protagonist in some sort of twisted ehMac-ian tragedy when, in truth, he is the instrument of his own failure.

That's why I told him to STFU. If this had been groove's first offense, I wouldn't have used those terms. However, he has a 14,000+ post history of exactly the same self-defeating, bottom feeding behaviour. I know I'm not the only one weary of it...

In the absence of any administrative moderation on these boards it becomes self-moderating or it dies. Some have noted, "Hey, it's just a blog. It doesn't matter." For survival purposes, I strongly disagree. The best, longest surviving blogs in the world are those that thrive on information, not FUD, BS or CFP's (content free posts). ehMac needs far more actual information, discussion & engagement between members and far less of the latter in order to survive. 

My point is fair, fundamental, oft-repeated and, interestingly enough, self-moderating:

Most people on these boards likely don't care what anyone posts here. You want to just comment? Go ahead, comment away. Have a question? Ask. You want to make an assertion, take a stance, form an opinion? Fine. Just be able to defend it. That will eliminate the BS & CFP's. 

Is that asking too much of anyone?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Most people on these boards likely don't care what anyone posts here. You want to just comment? Go ahead, comment away. Have a question? Ask. You want to make an assertion, take a stance, form an opinion? Fine. Just be able to defend it. That will eliminate the BS & CFP's.
> 
> Is that asking too much of anyone?


I donno... k?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I guess this is why First Nations residents are way out of line. We gave them roads and bridges, fishing licenses, modern regulations and the CBC--yet still they feel it is unfair to be taxed to pay for these things


Keep in mind that it was their land to start off with in the first place.

Technically, this sort of universal man can come on to your land, or even into your house, and claim that he has a right to live there, whether you like it or not. You have a deed, and possibly a mortgage, and you pay taxes for the land on which your house sits, but he is able to bypass this since he does not recognize the right of government to allow you to own this property, or even lease it. If you don't like his being there ................ tough. If you really don't like him being there, you may either move and give him your home, or request that the government evict him.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Keep in mind that it was their land to start off with in the first place.


They did not ask for these "improvements"--so why should they be required to pay for them?


----------



## FeXL

Just wondering where the hue & cry from the Ford detractors is...

Anti-Gun Group Mayor Arrested for DUI, Attacking Clock



> A member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns was arrested for allegedly driving under the influence and punching a police department clock last Saturday, the latest member of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s anti-gun group to run into trouble with the law.
> 
> Monticello, N.Y., Mayor Gordon Jenkins (D.) was charged with DUI, refusing a breathalyzer, obstruction of justice and criminal mischief last Saturday, after authorities noticed he appeared drunk when he showed up to survey the scene of a local car wreck.


----------



## FeXL

An excellent read, albeit over a year old. Could have gone in either political thread, I brought it here simply because the author is American.

Dear Liberal…Here’s Why I’m So Hostile



> The fact is, you can rail against my conservatism all you wish. You can make fun of my Tea Party gatherings, and you can ridicule patriots in tri-corner hats until you wet yourself from mirth, but one thing is for certain: my political philosophy will NEVER be a threat to your freedom. If you feel a burning responsibility to the poor, conservatism will never prevent you from working 80 hours per week and donating all of your income to charity. If you feel a strong sense of pity for a family who cannot afford health insurance, my political philosophy will never prevent you from purchasing health insurance for this family or raising money to do so, if you cannot afford it, personally. If you are moved with compassion for a family who is homeless, a conservative will never use the police power of government to prevent you from taking that family in to your own home or mobilizing your community to build one for them.
> 
> However, you cannot say the same for liberalism. If I choose not to give to the poor for whatever reason, you won’t simply try to persuade me on the merits of the idea — you will seek to use the government as an instrument of plunder to force me to give to the poor. If we are walking down the street together and we spot a homeless person, using this logic, you would not simply be content with giving him $20 from your own pocket — you would hold a gun to my head and force me to give him $20, as well.
> 
> *Everything that modern liberalism accomplishes is accomplished at the barrel of a government rifle.* You do not trust in the generosity of the American people to provide, through private charity, things such as clothing, food, shelter, and health care, so you empower the government to take from them and spend the money on wasteful, inefficient, and inadequate government entitlement programs. You do not trust in the personal responsibility of the average American to wield firearms in defense of themselves and their families, so you seek to empower the government to criminalize the use and possession of firearms by private citizens. Everytime you empower the government, you lose more of your personal liberty — it’s an axiomatic truth.
> 
> What angers me the most about you is the eagerness with which you allow the incremental enslavement to occur. You are the cliched and proverbial frog in the pot who has actually convinced himself that he’s discovered a big, silver jacuzzi. Somehow, you’re naive enough to believe that one more degree of heat won’t really matter that much.


Bold from the link.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>


----------



## groovetube

I found these to be pretty bang on.


----------



## Macfury

Guess some people "donno" when they put up silly memes without any insight or knowledge:

1) Dick Cheney quote


> "I think it’s *one of the worst* incidences, frankly, that I can recall in my career."


2) When has George Bush ever criticized Obama for anything? This quote from the _Huffington Post_ sums it up:



> Former President George W. Bush has steered clear of criticizing President Obama, saying his time in the spotlight is over and he does not want to distract the man who holds the job he used to hold.


George W. Bush 'Not Surprised' Obama Is 'Having A Difficult Go'


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They did not ask for these "improvements"--so why should they be required to pay for them?


I agree. They also did not ask to have their land stolen from them in the first place as well.


----------



## groovetube

funny pictures are fun. It should equal opportunity to post these dumb things.

This is being sent around on social media. One can only something like this would actually happen, but people are actually too chickcrap to stand up to them, most prefer to bend right over and either get cheap power bars and duct tape, and/or defend them.


----------



## groovetube

zing! :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Maybe a zing if you've never seen one before. These have been around for years. Just fill in the blank.


----------



## Macfury

Black Friday approaches:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The video is raw footage of Ernie Wayne Tertelgte at his “visitation” in Three Forks Justice Court, where is charged for fishing without a license, but he maintains that he belongs under natural and universal law where he is entitled to feed himself and fend for himself without some “license.” Montana law requires him to do this, but he should have used the 10th Amendment to foster his case (i.e., "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people".) He should have said that he was being denied the protection of the US Constitution, which enshrines the concept set forth in the Declaration of Independence of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" . The phrase gives examples of the various "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says all human beings have been given by their Creator and for the protection of which they institute governments.
> 
> However, as a "universal man", he feels that governments, be they federal, state or local, have no claims upon him, and thus, their laws are moot when it comes to his freedoms.


I agree that he would have been wiser to claim that the freedoms he attributes to a "universal man" were enshrined in the Constitution.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I agree that he would have been wiser to claim that the freedoms he attributes to a "universal man" were enshrined in the Constitution.


Luckily for him, the Constitution protected his civil right to speak his mind by yelling at the judge (freedom of speech?). Still, if the laws of the state of Montana do not apply to him, he can do just about anything he wants to do. Even hippie communes of the 1960s had some structure and order and egalitarian basis underlying their existence. 

His "universal man" concept of “a man can do all things if he wishes” is an ideal that sounds like "Renaissance Humanism". This concept considered man the center of the universe, limitless in his capacities for development, and led to the notion that men should try to embrace all knowledge and develop their own capacities as fully as possible. Add to this fishing without a license and there you have this person. What a wonderful concept.

By the way, I wonder if you would mind me using your home as a doxie breeding facility? There are far more dog shows in your part of the country than here, and we need a space to breed show dogs. You may stay in your home so long as you are quiet and don't scare the doxies.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> By the way, I wonder if you would mind me using your home as a doxie breeding facility? There are far more dog shows in your part of the country than here, and we need a space to breed show dogs. You may stay in your home so long as you are quiet and don't scare the doxies.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


My universal bull terrier will eat some of them as his commission.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My universal bull terrier will eat some of them as his commission.


Sorry, he has to go .................... or suffer the consequences. We have a doxie trained to hunt alligators, so a bull terrier is like a chew toy to her.


----------



## FeXL

So, the wonderful people who supported Obamacare are now distancing themselves from the disaster. Isn't this what you call CYA?

Politico: Dems Prep to Trash ObamaCare



> If Politico is "hearing" something, it means Democrats are trying to leak the information to the public ahead of the hearings. Politico and Mike Allen, especially, are simply another communications vehicle for the Democrat party. With Americans gathering around the dinner table later this week to discuss all aspects of life and current events, Democrats want it to be known that they are equally upset about the botched implementation of ObamaCare.


Too little, too late. Dems own this fiasco, lock, stock & barrel. Where was all this concern when it came time to vote?



> Just a few months ago, Democrats were nurtured with the fantasy that they could win back control of the House. Today, though, they are haunted by the prospect of losing even more seats in the House and giving up control of the Senate. There plight is a reminder of the old adage to "be careful what you wish for." Democrats got ObamaCare. And ObamaCare may now get the Democrats.


----------



## FeXL

Iran's deal of the Century.

The Prospect of World War Three 



> Let me begin by saying that the deal the U.S. struck with Iran on November 24 is so criminally stupid that mobs with torches and pitchforks should be surrounding the White House and Department of State demanding that the President and Secretary of State resign.
> 
> How many times does the United States have to make really bad deals with really bad nations? And then call it progress!


Apparently a few more yet...

Interesting graphic at the link.


----------



## FeXL

A few newspapers finally getting it.

Tacoma Paper Refuses To Run Obama's White House Propaganda



> Now that Obama's popularity, credibility, and, er, usefulness is at an all-time low, the papers can pretend to have some journalistic ethics again.


----------



## FeXL

Further on that Iran deal...

The White House and Iran Can't Agree on What It Is They Agreed On



> So it turns out there's a reason why the statements about the Iran deal from the White House are so wildly different from the other involved governments'. It's not just normal White House lying to the American public, but extraordinary lying to foreign governments too.


Some pointed observations inside.

In addition, this:



> So let's step back a second. If there was no deal and no idea when a deal would be reached, why would Obama make a special Saturday night address to announce a non-deal "breakthrough" with Iran?


OK, every one, together now:

TO REMOVE THE FOCUS FROM THE STINK OF OBAMACARE.

Well done.


----------



## Dr.G.

Christie leads possible 2016 GOP contenders in CNN/ORC poll – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

This cannot be good news for the faction of the Republican Party that supports the Tea Party and their ideals.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Christie leads possible 2016 GOP contenders in CNN/ORC poll – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> This cannot be good news for the faction of the Republican Party that supports the Tea Party and their ideals.


Christie will never be nominated. As many republicans now suggest, Christie should be the vice-presidential candidate.... for the Democrats.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Christie will never be nominated. As many republicans now suggest, Christie should be the vice-presidential candidate.... for the Democrats.


We shall see, Macfury. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Poking fun at Obama's penchant for renting Greek columns to stand in front of while making speeches, I found this image funny—Chris Christie as a prop for Obama's re-election campaign in 2012.


----------



## Dr.G.

Cute. Looks like it was photoshopped, however.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Cute. Looks like it was photoshopped, however.


Ya think?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ya think?


Yes ............. he is not that silly to wear that sort of hat.


----------



## FeXL

Speak about ObamaCare, get audited



> In what would be an astounding coincidence if it isn't evidence of IRS targeting those who embarrass ObamaCare, two people suddenly find themselves being audited by the IRS. Bill Elliott, a cancer patient who lost his insurance thanks to ObamaCare and was unable to pay the new rates, appeared on Megyn Kelley's Fox News show, telling her he was going to just pay the fine and "let nature take its course."
> 
> ...
> 
> C. Steven Tucker, an insurance broker out of Chicago, saw Bill Elliot on the show talking about getting bounced from his coverage because of the ACA mandates, stepped in and helped the man retain his coverage.
> 
> Well, Bill Elliott is being audited by the IRS, and now so is C. Steven Tucker.


Amazing coincidence, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Speak about ObamaCare, get audited
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing coincidence, wouldn't you agree?


Yep the worlds biggest terrorist organization.tptptptp


----------



## groovetube

Yes those two audits are proof!

Impeach Obama!


----------



## SINC

I guess two audits against two people intimately involved are suspicious to all but the juvenile mind.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism' – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

This should prove interesting to see how those in the Republican Party, both moderates and extremists, deal with this comment.


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism' – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> This should prove interesting to see how those in the Republican Party, both moderates and extremists, deal with this comment.


Interesting yes. But I've often wondered how any of them who declare such allegiance to Jesus Christ actually understood how vastly different their beliefs really are.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism' – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> This should prove interesting to see how those in the Republican Party, both moderates and extremists, deal with this comment.


Limbaugh is correct, if the Pope's comments really did call for global control of the economy.


----------



## CubaMark

I have no love for the Catholic Church, historically or contemporarily.... and Francis can put as much lipstick on that sucker as he wants, it won't change some very socially detrimental positions the Church takes. But I am soaking up the schaudenfreude over this one...

*Cardinal Dolan Questions Pope Francis' "Infallibility"*

it was to nobody's surprise that the Archbishop of New York, Cardinal Timothy Dolan appeared on Meet The Press to try and calm down the hard-liners from freaking out over his courageous viewpoints. By the way, when have you ever heard a prominent member of the Catholic Church actually try to diminish the power of their pontiff, who is supposed to be infallible in all things?



> DAVID GREGORY: He's not making any doctrinal changes.
> 
> CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN: Nope. Uh-uh (NEGATIVE).
> 
> DAVID GREGORY: Church doctrine remains the same. By have described it as a change of tone.
> 
> CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN: I would say a change of tone, a change of strategy. Right, a pope by his nature can't make doctrinal changes. In fact, his sacred responsibility is to protect the integrity of the faith and to pass it on. He can make a lot of changes in the way, the style, the manner in which it's presented. You know the best analogy of that? John XXIII, who by the way, the Italians are saying Pope Francis reminds them of John XXIII. He was the pope from '58 to '63. He said, "Look, we've got the gift of faith. That gift can't change. But it can sure be gift wrapped in a better way to make it more appealing, to make it more radiant.


See, the Pope is really designed to be nothing more than a big talking windbag. Did you know that? I didn't. If he can't change anything then why all the fuss with the white smoke? In reality, Pope Francis can change many things, including their responses to contraception, gays, poverty, capitalism and whatever he so chooses.



> Papal supremacy refers to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church that the pope, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ and as pastor of the entire Christian Church, has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered:[1] that, in brief, "the Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls."


Cardinal Dolan knows all about Papal supremacy, but he had to ignore it or he couldn't downplay the power that Pope Francis actually has to the Anton Scalia's of the religious right.​
(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Cardinal Dolan knows all about Papal supremacy, but he had to ignore it or he couldn't downplay the power that Pope Francis actually has to the Anton Scalia's of the religious right.


Why would the Pope not have any power over Catholics of the religious left?


----------



## groovetube

It incredible that the pope's calling out things like trickle down economics, and the obvious naiveté of those who so willfully place all their trust in the top wealthy who wield the power, is so quickly boiled down to, 'socialism', or Marxism.

The politicizing of his comments really just show how these people simply, don't get it.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> Interesting yes. But I've often wondered how any of them who declare such allegiance to Jesus Christ actually understood how vastly different their beliefs really are.


True. However, this Pope is from Latin America, and the Republicans are trying to get out the Hispanic vote for them this time around. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

RNC clarifies tweet that suggests racism is over – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Oops! Not helping to secure some votes from another group that is not typically going to vote for the Republican Party.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> True. However, this Pope is from Latin America, and the Republicans are trying to get out the Hispanic vote for them this time around. We shall see.


For all of his faults, and potentially dirty hands during the years of the military regime, Francis certainly was exposed to / influenced by liberation theology as practiced by priests in Latin America. Archbishop Oscar Romero ring a bell to anyone?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> For all of his faults, and potentially dirty hands during the years of the military regime, Francis certainly was exposed to / influenced by liberation theology as practiced by priests in Latin America. Archbishop Oscar Romero ring a bell to anyone?


Yes, I know who he was. Rather than give you a knee-jerk answer, I will say this--the situation in El Salvador was neither capitalist nor socialist. It was simply an oligarchy of plunderers who could do as they wished because its people were powerless. I admire Romero's courage in attempting to overthrow that system, but I don't believe his value system provides any long-term hope for anyone.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....the situation in El Salvador was neither capitalist nor socialist. It was simply an oligarchy of plunderers who could do as they wished because its people were powerless.....


...the people were powerless, and the United States under Reagan found no fault with the regime:

_the situation in El Salvador only worsened when Reagan took office. According to former U.S. Ambassador Robert White, "Reagan renewed tolerance and acceptance of the extreme right which led to the emergence of the National Republican Alliance (ARENA), and the rise of ex-Mayor Roberto D'Aubuisson." 

White described ARENA as a "violent Fascist party modeled after the Nazis and certain revolutionary communist groups." Reagan gave the green light to aid and arm the Salvadoran government while training their military at the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia. The result was the massacre at El Mozote in which 767 people were slaughtered, including 358 children under the age of thirteen. 

By the time the civil war ended, over 70,00 people had been killed and thousands of women and girls raped. Of course, this is the part of Reagan's legacy conservatives collectively ignore._​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ...the people were powerless, and the United States under Reagan found no fault with the regime:


That's pure nonsense. Both Carter and Reagan found fault with the regime, but thought it was better than the Cuban/Soviet backed FMNL. 

However, I have no idea what this has to do with my previous post. El Salavdor's problems preceded Reagan.


----------



## groovetube

Too bad they didn't have oil under them or America would have adopted 'operation el Salvadorian freedom'...

America has had a long history of installing dictators and interfering with foreign governments (Iran anyone?) They have never been against a little slaughter and brutality as long as the governments there serve their interests.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That's pure nonsense. Both Carter and Reagan found fault with the regime, but thought it was better than the Cuban/Soviet backed FMNL.
> 
> However, I have no idea what this has to do with my previous post. El Salavdor's problems preceded Reagan.


Your glasses are a particularly odd shade of rose today, MF. Do they ship the Kool-Aid to you, or do you mix it yourself (à la Heisenberg)?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Your glasses are a particularly odd shade of rose today, MF. Do they ship the Kool-Aid to you, or do you mix it yourself (à la Heisenberg)?


Make you feel better?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Make you feel better?


Yeah - you're right. That was a little too personal. Sorry. 

My point is, it appears to me that your perception of Reagan's involvement in El Salvador is somewhat forgiving. "It was already a basket-case" - so it's ok to go in, arm the fascist, brutal government of the day that killed some 70-thousand civilians in just a couple of years?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Yeah - you're right. That was a little too personal. Sorry.
> 
> My point is, it appears to me that your perception of Reagan's involvement in El Salvador is somewhat forgiving. "It was already a basket-case" - so it's ok to go in, arm the fascist, brutal government of the day that killed some 70-thousand civilians in just a couple of years?


Nope. I'm not suggesting US policy was anything but wrong-headed. Only saying that they were aware of the cruelty of the regime they backed and attempted to control that cruelty with the blunt tool of tightening and loosening the purse strings of aid, depending on reports of abuses.

And also pointing out that the US was already screwing around with El Salvador before Reagan arrived.

So the issues are more nuanced than simply stating that Regan Conservatives fully approved of a brutal regime.

As a Libertarian, it would take a lot for me to approve interfering with the political processes of another country. Even recent US interventionist policy in Egypt has been harmful--like working on an engine by switching wires and hoses at random to see what happens.


----------



## FeXL

Obama's corporatist contraceptive mandate



> The contraception mandate is nakedly a huge subsidy to the industry that most firmly supported Obamacare: the drugmakers.
> 
> The drug industry has spent more on lobbying under Obama than any other industry. Top lobbyists at the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) in 2009 met behind closed doors with the White House and Senate Democrats, promising political support for Democrats in exchange for friendly provisions in Obamacare.


B-B-B-But, it's all those corporate tax breaks!

Riiiight...


----------



## FeXL

Wise words from over 2000 years ago...



> "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." ~ Cicero 55 BC


Welcome to 2013.

Obama's Deliberate Destruction of the Economy

A few highlights:



> As of October, more than ninety million Americans were out of work.
> 
> ...
> 
> “Americans who were recipients of means-tested government benefits in 2011 outnumbered year-round full-time workers, according to data released this month by the Census Bureau.
> 
> ...
> 
> “A record 23,116,928 American households were enrolled in the federal government’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)---AKA food stamps---during the month of June...
> 
> ...
> 
> “During the four years that marked President Barack Obama’s first term in office, the real median income of American households dropped by $2,627 and the number of people in poverty increased by approximately 6,667,000, according to data released by the Census Bureau. The record total of approximately 46,496,000 people in the United States who are now in poverty, according to the Census Bureau,...
> 
> ...
> 
> “the year Obama was elected, people in poverty represented 13.2 percent of the national population. In 2012, they represented 15.0 percent of the population.”
> 
> ...
> 
> In late January, the Federal Reserve released data that revealed that its holdings of U.S. government debt had increased to an all-time record of $1,696,691,000,000 as of the close of day. The Fed’s holdings of U.S. government debt had increased by 257 percent since President Obama was first inaugurated in 2009.
> 
> ...
> 
> the economy represents “the weakest gross domestic product (GDP) growth since World War II. This anemic growth is all we have to show for the greatest fiscal and monetary stimuli in 75 years, with fiscal deficits of over 10% of GDP in four consecutive years.”
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Over the past five years, the U.S. spent $3.7 trillion on welfare.


His mom must be so proud...


----------



## Macfury

"Trickle-up poverty" is still the best way to describe Obama's economic policies.


----------



## FeXL

Even the kids are starting to get it...

Millennials Abandon Obama and Obamacare



> Young Americans are turning against Barack Obama and Obamacare, according to a new survey of millennials, people between the ages of 18 and 29 who are vital to the fortunes of the president and his signature health care law.
> 
> The most startling finding of Harvard University's Institute of Politics: A majority of Americans under age 25--the youngest millennials--would favor throwing Obama out of office.


Unfortunate there is no process in place to recall the President.

All this, & there are still some dense shrills out there who insist that Dems can run on Obamacare next year...


----------



## groovetube

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - December 5, 2013

Jon Stewart nails it!


----------



## groovetube

These Bank Employees Get Paid So Little That They Require Public Assistance



> Overall, businesses’ ability to pay unlivable wages that push people onto public assistance rolls *costs taxpayers a quarter-trillion dollars every year*.


Imagine these people working thinking they're entitled to livable wages. That's ok, the taxpayers will pick up the bill...


----------



## Macfury

> In New York City, where the cost of living is far higher than the national average, 39 percent of full-time tellers need public programs to get by.


That's the perversity of government assistance. People would leave NYC if they couldn't afford to live there. However, government assistance programs act as wage subsidies to businesses, providing them with a steady stream of low-cost employees. Way to go, nanny state!


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> That's the perversity of government assistance. People would leave NYC if they couldn't afford to live there. However, government assistance programs act as wage subsidies to businesses, providing them with a steady stream of low-cost employees. Way to go, nanny state!


isn't that part of the argument for raising the minimum wage?


----------



## Dr.G.

Pearl Harbor survivor finds a new battle: getting to the memorial - CNN.com

So much for their ad that said "fly the friendly skies of United". tptptptp


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> isn't that part of the argument for raising the minimum wage?


Ding!

Someone has to live in NYC to do the job. Perhaps there are a myriad of reasons for living in NYC ranging from family on.


----------



## Dr.G.

Lest we forget this "date that will live in infamy". Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> isn't that part of the argument for raising the minimum wage?


It would not be a good argument, no.


----------



## i-rui

why? you were just complaining about the government subsidizing business with social programs. raise the wage paid to these employees and the burden is shifted from the government (who can't afford it) to corporations making record profits.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> why? you were just complaining about the government subsidizing business with social programs. raise the wage paid to these employees and the burden is shifted from the government (who can't afford it) to corporations making record profits.


I'd agree that it would be a better solution than subsidizing workers through social programs--so raise the minimum wage and then drop the programs...

Right?


----------



## groovetube

If we raise the minimum wage even just a reasonable amount, that would automatically make a large number of people inelegie for social assistance.

So it seems really, in the end, a very large amount of money really is 'social assistance' for corporations.

I guess the alternative is to let people starve.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> I'd agree that it would be a better solution than subsidizing workers through social programs--so raise the minimum wage and then drop the programs...
> 
> Right?


the programs should still be there for those who qualify. 

but i imagine that would be a lot less then there currently are if the minimum wage was raised to a more reasonable level..


----------



## FeXL

There was a phrase coined a stretch back, namely "Low Information Voter". It brings a smile every time I read it & I know Macfury likes it, too.

That said, how about "Low Information Leadership"? <snort>

Low-Information Leadership



> From what I have seen the administration is full of young people who’ve seen the movie but not read the book. They act bright, they know the reference, they’re credentialed. But they’ve only seen the movie about, say, the Cuban missile crisis, and then they get into a foreign-policy question and they’re seeing movies in their heads. They haven’t read the histories, the texts, which carry more information, more texture, data and subtlety, and different points of view. They’ve only seen the movie—the Cubans had the missiles and Jack said “Not another war” and Bobby said “Pearl Harbor in reverse” and dreadful old Curtis LeMay chomped his cigar and said “We can fry a million of ‘em by this afternoon, Mr. President.” Grrr, grrr, good guys beat bad guys.


Bingo.

More:



> For four years I have been told, by those who’ve worked in the administration and those who’ve visited it as volunteers or contractors, that the Obama White House isn’t organized. It’s just full of chatter. Meetings don’t begin on time, there’s no agenda, the list of those invited seems to expand and contract at somebody’s whim. There is a tendency to speak of how a problem will look and how its appearance should be handled, as opposed to what the problem is and should be done about it. People speak airily, without point. They scroll down, see a call that has to be returned, pop out and then in again.
> 
> It does not sound like a professional operation. And this is both typical of White Houses and yet on some level extreme. People have always had meetings to arrange meetings, but the lack of focus, the lack of point, the sense that they are operating within accepted levels of incoherence—this all sounds, actually, peculiar.


Good read.


----------



## FeXL

Nope, not abusing a position of power. No way...

Elizabeth Warren, Socialist Hero, Threatens Her Critics



> Elizabeth Warren sits on the Senate banking committee. This supplies her with the power to harass and harm banks.
> 
> A group called Third Way published a paper critical of Warren's views on banking.
> 
> Elizabeth Warren responded by demanding that banks -- which she has legislative and investigatory power over -- divulge any donations they may have made to Third Way.
> 
> Which is not about answering criticism -- it's about silencing it, scaring it off.


Just another bullying politician...


----------



## FeXL

So, you may have heard about this new healthcare act the US has been rolling out since 2010. Name of Obamacare. Obama's lead person on this has been Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. How many times did the CIC meet with her in the last 4 years, mark progress, go over some details, address any deficiencies?

Number of Times Obama Met With HHS Secretary Sebelius Between the Passage and Rollout of Obamacare: One

Further:



> Perhaps Obama's too extraordinary to oversee large projects


Yeah, let's go with that...


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> the programs should still be there for those who qualify.
> 
> but i imagine that would be a lot less then there currently are if the minimum wage was raised to a more reasonable level..


I figured as much. You want them both anyway.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot:

Doctors boycotting California's Obamacare exchange



> An estimated seven out of every 10 physicians in deep-blue California are rebelling against the state's Obamacare health insurance exchange and won't participate, the head of the state's largest medical association said.
> 
> “It doesn't surprise me that there's a high rate of nonparticipation,” said Dr. Richard Thorp, president of the California Medical Association.


Tsk, tsk. That's gonna leave a mark...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Further on the Charlie Foxtrot:
> 
> Doctors boycotting California's Obamacare exchange


If you like your doctor, he can keep you... if he wants to sell his soul to the devil.


----------



## FeXL

Even more on those fantastic sign-up numbers.

ObamaCare’s Massachusetts Exchange Has Signed Up Zero People: “This is a mess”



> *With three weeks left in the year, not one of the thousands of Massachusetts residents who need to enroll in new health insurance plans by Jan. 1 has been able to do so* through the state insurance marketplace that was revamped to comply with the national Affordable Care Act.


My bold.

Definitely the type of platform Dems can run on next year...


----------



## FeXL

And, on the emperor's foreign policy.

HECKUVA JOB, BARRY: Saudi Arabia Seeks Russian Help As Mideast Nuclear Arms Race Heats Up



> As anyone could have predicted, the other shoe has dropped. *Fars News reports that Riyadh has gone to Russia to seek its assistance in building nukes.*
> 
> Saudi Intelligence Chief Prince Bandar Bin Sultan in a recent meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked him to help Riyadh construct a nuclear power plant, the Arab-language al-Qods al-Arabi newspaper quoted informed diplomatic sources in the Persian Gulf Arab littoral states as saying.


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

Barry upset the balance of power with his "deal." What an amateur.


----------



## FeXL

This guy is not only recreating long lost discord and divisiveness at home, he manages to throw a monkey wrench into international relationships, as well.


----------



## FeXL

Couple days back I posted a link to an article addressing the paucity of meetings between Obama & his health care secretary, Kathleen Sebelius.

Further:

David Gergen: Report on Obamacare Prep Shows 'No One in Charge' of White House



> Gergen said that "at the same time three years pass with no one-on-one meetings according to this Politico article. *The president had 277 one-on-one meetings with other members of his cabinet.*” Gergen referenced Schweizer's Politico article in which he mentioned that "perhaps the insular White House team wanted to distance the president from the bureaucratic process in the hopes of granting him a halo of deniability if the launch failed." Schweizer also noted *"the lack of meetings reinforces the severity of what the New York Times describes as the 'deeply dysfunctional relationship between the Department of Health and Human Services and its technology contractors, and tensions between the White House chief of staff and senior health department officials.'"*


My bold.

You don't s'pose that <gasp!> managing government is just too boring for the genius, do you?


----------



## FeXL

It's the only excuse I haven't heard regarding Obamacare but, it's coming...


----------



## FeXL

No surprise...


----------



## FeXL

Oh well, it wasn't really their money in the first place...

U.S. Sells Off Last of Its General Motors Stock, at $10.5 Billion Loss



> U.S. taxpayers no longer own any of automaker General Motors. The Treasury sold the last of its remaining 31.1 million GM shares today.
> 
> The taxpayer loss on the GM bailout finishes at $10.5 billion. The Treasury department said it recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stock, and had put $49.5 billion of taxpayer money into the GM bailout....


Further:



> The administration emphasizes that the loss it took on GM shares is far less constly than had GM been allowed to fail.
> 
> "*Inaction could have cost the broader economy more than one million jobs, billions in lost personal savings, and significantly reduced economic production*," Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew said in a statement announcing that Treasury had sold all its remaining shars.


Bold mine.

Right. For indicators on the stunning economic recovery the US has made under Obama, see my next post.


----------



## FeXL

37 Reasons Why “The Economic Recovery Of 2013″ Is A Giant Lie

My favorite is the link at #25. Stunning...



> #25 Under Barack Obama, the velocity of money (a very important indicator of economic health) has plunged to a post-World War II low.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Oh well, it wasn't really their money in the first place...
> 
> U.S. Sells Off Last of Its General Motors Stock, at $10.5 Billion Loss


*
There is, of course, another side to that story...*



> Automotive specialists said the aggressive intervention *by President Bush and President Obama* was necessary to prevent a total breakdown of the industry — one of the largest manufacturing sectors in the American economy.
> 
> “It had to be done because the entire industry was in a depression, and it could have dragged the whole country into one,” said David E. Cole, the former chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich.
> 
> A report released recently by Mr. Cole’s organization estimated that *the government’s auto bailout helped save 1.2 million jobs* in the United States, including employment by suppliers and dealers. (NYTimes)



The jobs that were not lost continued contributing via their payroll taxes... another article in the Washington Post noted *"...Not doing the bailout would have cost the government more than it lost in missed tax revenue and payments for unemployment benefits and pensions, the officials said...."*


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *
> There is, of course, another side to that story...*


Yes, you may as well have the US government buy shares in every enterprise so they can prop up employment--that way they can get some income tax money out of it.

GM should have been flushed down the toilet of obsolescence, so people who know how to make cars could take over.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm not expressing an opinion on the wisdom of the auto industry bailout... but it is important to note that it was a program that begun under Bush, while Obama gets the flack. And the sudden loss of a huge number of jobs to the U.S. economy would have been, potentially, catastrophic.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm not expressing an opinion on the wisdom of the auto industry bailout... but it is important to note that it was a program that begun under Bush, while Obama gets the flack. And the sudden loss of a huge number of jobs to the U.S. economy would have been, potentially, catastrophic.


They share the flack since Bush consulted with Obama on whether it was going to be done.

GM failed because consumers selected it for failure by refusing to buy their cars. I can't think of anything more perverse than propping up such a dreadful business, simply because they employ a lot of people. Had GM gone bankrupt in the normal fashion, it would have emerged as a smaller company with some people still employed, and others employed by former competitors. 

GM still isn't on solid ground. If you paid down all my debt and freed me of all my obligations, I could sprint for a couple of years as well.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> GM still isn't on solid ground. If you paid down all my debt and freed me of all my obligations, I could sprint for a couple of years as well.


From the Washington Post article cited above:

_Since leaving bankruptcy, GM has been *profitable for 15 straight quarters*, racking up almost $20 billion in net income on strong new products and rising sales in North America and China. It also has invested $8.8 billion in U.S. facilities and has added about 3,000 workers, bringing U.S. employment to 80,000.

GM shares rose 44 cents, or 1.1 percent, to $41.34 in after-hours trading following the announcement. They rose 1.8 percent in regular trading, at one point reaching $41.17, the highest level since GM’s 2010 initial public offering._​


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> I'm not expressing an opinion on the wisdom of the auto industry bailout... but it is important to note that it was a program that begun under Bush, while Obama gets the flack.


I never mentioned Obama anywhere. Neither did the reason.com article I linked to. And, only once in the USA Today link and no blame was placed there. Obama was justifying the sale.

Defensive, much?



CubaMark said:


> And the sudden loss of a huge number of jobs to the U.S. economy would have been, potentially, catastrophic.


As opposed to the millions of jobs he's already destroyed with his crappy domestic agenda?

Pulease...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> From the Washington Post article cited above:
> 
> _Since leaving bankruptcy, GM has been *profitable for 15 straight quarters*, racking up almost $20 billion in net income on strong new products and rising sales in North America and China. It also has invested $8.8 billion in U.S. facilities and has added about 3,000 workers, bringing U.S. employment to 80,000.
> 
> GM shares rose 44 cents, or 1.1 percent, to $41.34 in after-hours trading following the announcement. They rose 1.8 percent in regular trading, at one point reaching $41.17, the highest level since GM’s 2010 initial public offering._​


Again, if you were allowed to keep all of your old infrastructure and intellectual property and divest yourself of all your debts, screw your shareholders, then resell your stock, any company could be profitable for some time.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

True, CM, but Pres. Reagan DID win the War in Grenada .............. the last time America could really say "mission accomplished". If you bypass Korea and Vietnam, we went from victories in Europe, Japan to a dramatic victory over the "threat" to our civilized way of life in Grenada. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## groovetube

McDonald's to Its Minimum-Wage Workers: Here's How to Tip Personal Trainers and Nannies - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## FeXL

This is the quality of far too many people who make it into politics. This applies to politicians of every stripe worldwide, not just the US.

Not Kuster’s Last Stand, Alas 



> The Democrats had a very good night in New Hampshire in November 2012, and swept away, among many others, my congressman. Charlie Bass was nobody’s idea of a rock-ribbed conservative, but he wasn’t an idiot. By contrast, look at Bass’s successor, Democrat Annie Kuster, when asked a question about Benghazi.
> 
> First, she has no idea what “Benghazi” is.
> 
> Then, pleading in mitigation that she’s there to talk about the Middle East, she reveals that she has no idea where Benghazi is.
> 
> Finally, when her constituents helpfully point out that Benghazi is in Libya, *she turns to the side and gives that pitiful look that is the single thing I most loathe about American politics – the look a floundering empty suit gives to her minder when she needs him to come and rescue her.* Which the minder immediately does.
> 
> This isn’t an especially partisan point, but *I’m so weary of post-modern ventriloquist’s dummies who can’t be allowed near their constituents without the protection of a phalanx of aides.* In this video, the voters are well-informed, but they have a low-information Congresswoman.


Bold mine.

It's the whole article, but there is a link inside to the video. Hilarious...


----------



## FeXL

Detroit’s Bankruptcy Ruling Doesn’t Spare the Pensions



> What drew the most attention was not his lengthy detailing of Detroit’s inability to manage itself or provide basic services for its citizens and the billions it accrued in debt—problems that have been well-established leading up to bankruptcy—but *Rhodes’ statement that the pensions of city employees and retirees may be cut as part of the reorganization.*


Bold mine.

Interesting...


----------



## FeXL

So, months after the public release of a non-working Obamacare website and after years of not meeting with Obama about the topic, Obama's fall gal, Kathleen Sebelius, has demanded (get this) that most hallowed of things government, an "investigation". All together now: "Oooooo. Ahhhhh."

Hilarious: Clueless Sebelius Demands Investigation Into Screwed-Up ObamaCare Website



> Why, what a novel idea. *Let’s spend some money investigating why Obama and Sebelius completely botched the largest government program in history due to their sheer incompetence.* While we’re at it, let’s investigate why Obama and Sebelius never once met to go over the details. But now she’s all about accountability or something.


Yup, my bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

groovetube said:


> McDonald's to Its Minimum-Wage Workers: Here's How to Tip Personal Trainers and Nannies - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic
> 
> Wow. Just wow.


" It sounds like human resources telling is telling the company's entire low-wage workforce to go eat cake (bought, presumably, with food stamps). "  tptptptp


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> " It sounds like human resources telling is telling the company's entire low-wage workforce to go eat cake (bought, presumably, with food stamps). "  tptptptp


It certainly does. It's ridiculous and shows and complete disconnect on what they think they're paying people. Perhaps the wage was ok 20 years ago...


----------



## kps

A wholes





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

*Oh man... I wonder how the birther nuts are going to see this... conspiracy theory kindling, this is...*

*Hawaii official who confirmed Obama birth certificate dies in crash*



> Loretta Fuddy, the Hawaii official who confirmed the authenticity of President Obama's birth record in Hawaii, died Wednesday night in a small-plane crash.
> The aircraft, with nine passengers on board, crashed into the ocean about a mile off Kalaupapa, Molokai, on Wednesday, the U.S. Coast Guard said.
> The other eight people survived





> In April 2011, Fuddy confirmed Obama's "long form" birth certificate as part of the state's effort to put to rest questions about whether he was really born in the United States.
> "I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawaii," she said at the time.


(CNN)


----------



## FeXL

Taxes and Society



> There is a lot of dogma in politics regarding tax rates and general government performance. I personally have found that most people make statements about politics with literally zero data. On thanksgiving, I spent about 4 hours on the government data website – http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm looking at various numbers reported there. A reader, who shall be unnamed, even stopped by recently claiming that taxes were lower than 1950, conservatives only make decisions with emotion (a common claim applied to today’s Marxist authoritarian-style liberals) and even that we should have an 80% of GDP tax rate to maximize government revenue.


Very revealing graphs at the link.


----------



## FeXL

Even more on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Government Takeover: White House Forces Obamacare Insurers To Cover Unpaid Patients At A Loss



> Of all of the last-minute delays, website bungles, and Presidential whims that have marred the roll-out of Obamacare’s subsidized insurance exchanges, what happened on Thursday, December 12 will stand as one of the most lawless acts yet committed by this administration. The White House—having canceled Americans’ old health plans, and having botched the system for enrolling people in new ones—knows that millions of Americans will enter the new year without health coverage. So instead of actually fixing the problem, the administration is retroactively attempting to force insurers to hand out free health care—at a loss—to those whom the White House has rendered uninsured. *If Obamacare wasn’t a government takeover of the health insurance industry, then what is it now?*


My bold.


----------



## FeXL

He must be having problems logging on to the website...

Of Course: Obama Has Yet to Enroll for ObamaCare



> Better hurry up, Barry. Unless you have your own special deadline. Might want to squeeze this in before your two-week Hawaiian vacation.


----------



## FeXL

As I've noted before: Presenting Jimmy Carter as a genius, one teleprompter screen at a time...

Historic: Obama’s Approval After Five Years Lowest of Any President Since Truman



> Amusingly enough the media is clinging to polls showing Obama’s approval as being higher than Congress. Weird, but we don’t recall that obsession during the terms of past presidents. Whatever the case, his overall average approval is the lowest of any president dating back to Truman. Had they done polling prior to that it’s likely we’d have to go back to the 1920′s to find a president more unpopular.


----------



## FeXL

So, Obamacare has its own "Navigators":



> tasked with helping Americans enroll in a health insurance plan


Just a couple small problems, however...

House Report: Ill-Trained Obamacare Navigators Encouraging Fraud, Jeopardizing Private Info



> Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said at a Congressional hearing that it was “possible” for convicted felons to become Navigators.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Oversight Committee, chaired by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), and HHS actually learned that "poorly-trained Navigators gave consumers incorrect information about the health care exchanges, violated HHS rules and procedures, and even encouraged applicants to commit tax fraud in some instances." Moreover, this was learned from various news reports due to the complete lack of any internal oversight.


This just keeps on getting better & better. Wonder how my popcorn futures are doing...


----------



## FeXL

Ruh, roh. Some of that teflon finally falling off?

Sudden threat endangers Hillary's 2016 run



> A threat to Hillary Clinton’s much anticipated 2016 presidential campaign appears to be developing in Egypt where that nation’s government is taking steps to criminalize the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> Specifically, a new criminal complaint has been filed with Egypt’s attorney general, Hisham Barakat, alleging then-U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton collaborated with Naglaa Mahmoud, the wife of ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, in seeking to incite domestic insurrections to topple Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the Egyptian general who has been commander in chief of the Egyptian armed forces, as well as minister of defense, since Aug. 12, 2012.
> 
> Researcher Walid Shoebat, a native Arabic-speaker and a former Palestinian Liberation Organization operative, has reported on his blog that credible news sources in Egypt have reported in Arabic that criminal charges have been brought against Hillary Clinton and Morsi’s wife.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> He must be having problems logging on to the website...
> 
> Of Course: Obama Has Yet to Enroll for ObamaCare


Nope the Pres and Congress go with a single payer health plan that closely resembles Canada except that these guys always get to jump to the head of the que.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Nope the Pres and Congress go with a single payer health plan that closely resembles Canada except that these guys always get to jump to the head of the que.


What it resembles is the best private insurance money can buy.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> What it resembles is the best private insurance money can buy.


Nope the taxpayers pay the bills.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Nope the taxpayers pay the bills.


Yes, and...?


----------



## groovetube

If More People Knew The Secrets Those In Power Keep From Us All, We Would Toss Them Out On Their Ear

Hardly a revelation to some, though it seems important to others to defend the liberty and rights to plunder the spoils without fewer and fewer obstructions!


----------



## Macfury

I watched the video. What secretes did Moyers share that the typical low-information voter does not know?


----------



## groovetube

that's pretty awesome 

Well apparently there's enough "low information voters" who continually support politicians who hand them the line about how other politicians are infringing on your liberties, when really, they mean the liberties of those gaming the system.

Oh but watch out for the welfare cheats, and voter fraud. Now there's where everyone should be focused!

Oh and the knockout game! :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

This is old, old new to libertarians and the TEA Party.


----------



## groovetube

Right. The "low information voters" 

The ones that get told the government can't afford anything for them because the swindlers passing it all off are busy gaming for dollars!

They know all they have to do is pull out the Alamo, land of the free, and they're comin fed yer guns if you don't let the rich get tax cuts etc you'll have no jobs!!!! blah blah and they'll all buy it.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Right. The "low information voters"
> 
> The ones that get told the government can't afford anything for them because the swindlers passing it all off are busy gaming for dollars!
> 
> They know all they have to do is pull out the Alamo, land of the free, and they're comin fed yer guns if you don't let the rich get tax cuts etc you'll have no jobs!!!! blah blah and they'll all buy it.


That's embarrassing low information-voter talk from progressives who want to maintain the size, scope and spending levels of government, but somehow think they can make the government give the money to them.

Any nation with voters infantalized enough to demand that the government feed them, clothe them, and nurse them will create a government so large that it will simply control them.


----------



## groovetube

ah there you go, off on another rant of government handouts. When really, it's the top few gaming the system for the MOST handouts. There's nothing progressive in figuring this out. And, it isn't just a republican thing. Clearly.

FAIL


----------



## Macfury

Are you calling food programs, healthcare programs and welfare programs handouts? I didn't even mention the word.


----------



## groovetube

what difference does it make? You reverted to a rant on 'making the government give people money'.

This rant is laughable at best given what's really going on.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> what difference does it make? You reverted to a rant on 'making the government give people money'.


Read your own damned post:



> The ones that get told the government* can't afford anything for them *


.


----------



## groovetube

there's far more things 'for the people' beyond just 'handouts'. Everything from healthcare to infrastructure and anything in between, the 'people' are paying lots of taxes, while the top are gaming for bonanza dollars.

While good programs are set up to fail the upper end seems to be working pretty well for the rich.

Surely this is clear, despite getting embroiled in what is a handout, or whatever details you're worried about.

This is pretty basic stuff macfury.


----------



## Macfury

It's pretty basic stuff if you're gaming for handouts. You've come out in favour of them time and again.


----------



## groovetube

see there I corner you into ranting about handouts every time.

Addressing the real huge problems going on just isn't a comfortable conversation. For either republicans or democrats for that matter.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Addressing the real huge problems going on just isn't a comfortable conversation. For either republicans or democrats for that matter.


And the "real huge problem" is?


----------



## groovetube

What's that??? What were we talking about again? What? the rich gaming the system and paying lower tax rates than regular folk getting bailouts, blah blah WHAT? What were we talking about???

WHAT??? :clap:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> What's that??? What were we talking about again? What? the rich gaming the system and paying lower tax rates than regular folk getting bailouts, blah blah WHAT? What were we talking about???
> 
> WHAT??? :clap:


You're applauding yourself again. Bad habit.

The rich aren't paying lower taxes than the poor. In most cases, lower income Americans are net beneficiaries of federal largesse. IRS figures show that the top 50% of earners pay 97% of all federal taxes. The top 1% pay 35% of all federal taxes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You're applauding yourself again. Bad habit.
> 
> The rich aren't paying lower taxes than the poor. In most cases, lower income Americans are net beneficiaries of federal largesse. IRS figures show that the top 50% of earners pay 97% of all federal taxes. The top 1% pay 35% of all federal taxes.


Well, at least those in the top 1% and the next 19% are not hurting. As for me, I am a top 55%er. :clap::clap:

"In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2010, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 35.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 53.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)."

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least those in the top 1% and the next 19% are not hurting. As for me, I am a top 55%er. :clap::clap:
> 
> "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2010, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 35.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 53.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)."
> 
> Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power


Why is that figure "remarkable"? What should the numbers be in your estimation?


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least those in the top 1% and the next 19% are not hurting. As for me, I am a top 55%er. :clap::clap:
> 
> "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2010, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 35.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 53.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)."
> 
> Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power


I don't think any of this will change macfury's mind.

It's too uncomfortable to address the real disparity, because then well that might make you a "socialist". 

It's the catch phrase that gets tossed along with 'giving people money' amongst others, to protect the wealth and influence on government to continue that protection.

The irony here is that that position will always ensure more and more people requiring said handouts.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I don't think any of this will change macfury's mind.
> 
> It's too uncomfortable to address the real disparity, because then well that might make you a "socialist".
> 
> It's the catch phrase that gets tossed along with 'giving people money' amongst others, to protect the wealth and influence on government to continue that protection.
> 
> The irony here is that that position will always ensure more and more people requiring said handouts.


Take a crack at it yourself, groovy. What is the appropriate share of wealth? How much would you take away from one group and give to the other?


----------



## FeXL

Yes, it's all those eeeee-vil corporations who were given all those tax breaks...

KA-CHING!



> “In 2012 the CEO of Walmart made $20.7 million. Walmart has about 2 million employees (as far as I can tell, this is only counting the employees in the American stores). So, if you divided the CEO’s entire pay among the employees they’d each get $10.35 more per year- that’s not quite 20 cents per week; a half a cent per hour for full time employees. Woohoo.
> 
> Now, look at a paystub and see how much the various governments” steal from every paycheck, and then tell me who the real parasite is.”


----------



## FeXL

Another fly in the Obamacare ointment.

Fine print: State can seize your assets to pay for care after you’re forced into Medicaid by Obamacare



> But now we have the Affordable Care Act, and its expectation that everyone in the lower tier of income will end up in the Medicaid system. To accomplish this, they have dropped the asset test. So now we will have lots of people ages 55-64, who have assets but not a lot of income right now, for whatever reason, on Medicaid.
> 
> The kicker of it is, if you make the right amount to qualify for a subsidized health insurance plan, your costs are going to be shared and subsidized by the government. But if you go on Medicaid, you owe the entire amount that Medicaid spends on you from the day you turn 55…
> 
> How will this play out? No one knows, as far as I can tell. But it is easy to see how this could become a real problem. If someone is low income and goes on Medicaid, will Medicaid put a lien on their house? If they need to sell their house and move, will they then lose all their equity in paying off the lien? Will people get hit with bills and liens for many thousands of dollars, even if they were healthy and hardly ever went to the doctor?


----------



## FeXL

I'd love to see the NSA have theirs butts handed to them...

‘The NSA Is Out of Control’: Legislative Momentum Expected After Ruling Against Data Collection



> A federal judge’s ruling on the Obama administration’s “Orwellian” mass collection of data through the NSA put wind in the sails of a handful of lawmakers who came down the hardest on the White House in the wake of former contractor Edward Snowden’s revelations.
> 
> That, coupled with the promise that there are still surprises to come from the Snowden stash, could revive privacy legislation in the new year.
> 
> D.C. District Court Judge Richard Leon, appointed to the bench by George W. Bush, ruled that the bulk collection of telephone metadata most likely violated the Fourth Amendment and should be stopped along with the destruction of metadata currently in the government’s possession, but he stayed his ruling to give the case time to work up to the D.C. Circuit.


----------



## FeXL

Even some of the low information voters are starting to get it...

Gallup Poll: Record High 72% Believe Big Government Is America’s Greatest Threat…



> Seventy-two percent of Americans say big government is a greater threat to the U.S. in the future than is big business or big labor, a record high in the nearly 50-year history of this question.


What? Not those evil, tax-dodging corporations? Who knew?


----------



## FeXL

Guess they needed a bigger sign...

Chicago girl's rape near a school 'Safe Passage' route alarms parents



> A 15-year-old Chicago girl walking to her high school in pre-dawn darkness was hit on the head, dragged between two houses to a yard and raped, police said, with the assault taking place just a half block away from one of the city's "Safe Passage" school routes especially for students.


More:



> Just this fall, local officials pledged that an expanded Safe Passages program -- with its *big yellow signs* above sidewalks patrolled during key times by paid, trained workers -- would be a sanctuary for children walking to and from school.


Yup. Bold mine...


----------



## FeXL

More on the Charlie Foxtrot.

ObamaCare Found To Restrict Where You Live And Travel



> The American Thinker's Stella Paul has exposed the virtually unnoticed fact that within the ObamaCare exchanges so many Americans are being forced into, "most plans only provide local medical coverage."


Cottage a couple states over? No medical coverage. Snowbird with a home further south? Uh, uh.

More:



> And as Paul asks, "With Americans no longer able to receive routine medical services when they travel, will they start showing up in emergency rooms for sore throats and backaches? And how will these new throngs of patients affect the waiting time of people with genuine medical emergencies?"


Nice.

And, even the Dems are backing down. Must be an election year coming up in the Senate.


Fox News poll: 54% of Democrats want ObamaCare delayed for a year

Delayed? How about fixed? Or thrown out completely?


----------



## FeXL

An old saw about chickens & roosts come to mind.

'NSA ruined it!' Brazil ditches Boeing jets, grants $4.5 bln contract to Saab



> Brazil has rejected a contract for Boeing’s F/A-18 fighter jets in favor of the Swedish Saab’s JAS 39 Gripens. The unexpected move to reject the US bid comes amid the global scandal over the NSA’s involvement in economic espionage activities.


Good for Brazil.


----------



## FeXL

So, Obamacare has a new posterboy: Pajama Boy! Thing is, he's been getting thoroughly mocked, pretty much across the board. Some good ones at the link.

The Dozen Funniest Variations of Obama’s Pajama Boy Propaganda

These are the polite ones. Search for even better examples online.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, here's some good news from the Dems. [/sarc]

Pelosi Declares the End of Immigration Law



> Nancy Pelosi recently told Telemundo (Spanish broadcast here) that violations of immigration law should no longer have any consequences:
> 
> “Our view of the law is that it — *if somebody is here without sufficient documentation, that is not reason for deportation*.”​This wasn’t just a verbal flub; her spokesman reiterated the point, saying her comment was merely “a restatement of her long-held belief that *being an undocumented immigrant is not a basis for deportation.*”


Bold from the link.

Just shaking my head...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Oh, here's some good news from the Dems. [/sarc]
> 
> Pelosi Declares the End of Immigration Law
> 
> 
> Bold from the link.
> 
> Just shaking my head...


When did they stop calling them undocumented aliens?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Oh, here's some good news from the Dems. [/sarc]
> 
> Pelosi Declares the End of Immigration Law
> 
> 
> Bold from the link.
> 
> Just shaking my head...


When did they stop calling them illegal aliens?


----------



## FeXL

The left considered both descriptions politically incorrect and adjusted accordingly...


----------



## FeXL

Down, down & away he goes. Where he stops, nobody knows...

War by Women: CNN Poll Puts Obamacare Support at 35% Support, With 62% Against; Almost All of the Fall-Off Is Due to Women Turning on the Law

Couple of observations:



> Pajamaboy isn't cutting it.
> 
> ...
> 
> Meanwhile, Team Get Enrolled is now doing information events in... packed nightclubs. And that's going about as well as you'd expect.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Administration, which is nothing but spin and bull****, has some new spin and bull**** on Pajamaboy. They seem to have just thought of this in the past 24 hours -- see, they didn't really think Pajamaboy was cool or anything. They actually intended Pajamaboy to be a negative image, like "This is what people who don't sign up with Obamacare look like."
> 
> ...
> 
> But even Pajamaboy -- even Pajamaboy!!! -- gets thrown under the bus by Obama when his polls go down.


----------



## FeXL

And, moar!

Federal Courts: Obama Partnership With Drug Cartels Deeper Than Weapons



> A federal court in Texas has issued a formal opinion on the court case United States of America v. Mirtha Veronica Nava-Martinez. The judge, Andrew Hanen, presented his opinion from the case that threw open the doors to watch the travesty of justice that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the shear lawlessness of the Obama Administration. This goes way beyond the Fast and Furious weapons Scandal.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> And, moar!
> 
> Federal Courts: Obama Partnership With Drug Cartels Deeper Than Weapons


Other than the Bushwhackers, the CIA is probably the biggest drug cartel in the world, it's been their major funding source for a very long time, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan........ So obviously there are no surprises here.

FWIW DHS also predates the BO administration and has been in it up to their ears from the beginning.


----------



## FeXL

NSA Paid Security Company to Adopt Weakened Encryption Standards



> Undisclosed until now was that RSA received $10 million in a deal that set the NSA formula as the preferred, or default, method for number generation in the BSafe software, according to two sources familiar with the contract. Although that sum might seem paltry, it represented more than a third of the revenue that the relevant division at RSA had taken in during the entire previous year, securities filings show.


So, NSA paid RSA $10 million to employ a weaker, "NSA known" encryption.

Nice.


----------



## FeXL

And, from the "It's no surprise" department, this irony:

Obama Can't Name Single Terror Attack Stopped by NSA Snooping



> Obamas still focuses on 9/11 without any evidence that the NSA program has justification from a foiled terror attack. He has to; there is no evidence whatsoever of an attack since then that’s been thwarted by the NSA program. As law professor Geoffrey Stone, who served on the presidential task force charged with reviewing NSA programs, told NBC News, *the task force tried to find a single incident that would justify the NSA’s actions, but "found none."*


My bold.


----------



## eMacMan

So since we have been speaking of really bad presidents current and past we might as well talk about one of the very worst.

100 years ago yesterday late in the evening Congress passed and President Wilson signed the act that created the Federal Reserve Bank. The probability is extremely high that a quorum was not present as most Congressmen and Senators would have been on their way home for Christmas.

This act took control of US money out of the hands of Congress and turned it over to a privately owned foreign bankster controlled corporation.

Wilson later referred to this saying; He believed he had betrayed his country. That betrayal continues to haunt the United States to this day. 

BTW For those who are unaware of this, the IRS is the collection/terrorism branch of the Federal Reserve Bank, which is still a privately owned and foreign based corporation. Neither the Federal Reserve Bank nor the IRS are part of the US Government.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi.

“There clearly were stand down orders given"



> “The whole issue about stand down orders is not an issue,” said Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., who sits on the House Intelligence Committee. “There clearly were stand down orders given to people not only in Benghazi but also in Tripoli and the State Department's counterterrorism team.”


Despicable...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Dictatorial Power Extends To Obama Appointees Too



> Justice Sotomayor grants temporary Obamacare exemption to nuns: The Catholic nuns would have faced 'draconian fines' if they failed to provide contraceptive coverage, as the healthcare law requires.


Nice.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The left needs some better cartoonists. I guess it's because nobody on the left will pay them. This is what you get for free, folks.


----------



## CubaMark

Hm. Image hotlinking blocked. Try this:

*Yemen Bombs Yet Another Wedding In America*
_For freedom reasons though_


----------



## SINC

I tried just dragging image to desktop, then attach and it worked.


----------



## kps

/\ /\ /\ Is that another of those free cartoons MF spoke of?


----------



## groovetube

Anatomy of an Obamacare ‘horror story’

Well there's a surprise...


----------



## FeXL

Those nasty, money grubbing, under taxed corporations...

Surprise! Walmart health plan is cheaper, offers more coverage than Obamacare



> For many years, the giant discount retailer has been the target of unions and liberal activists who have harshly criticized the company's health care plans, calling them “notorious for failing to provide health benefits” and "substandard.”
> 
> *But a Washington Examiner comparison of the two health insurance programs found that Walmart's plan is more affordable and provides significantly better access to high-quality medical care than Obamacare.*


My bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

Glad I don't live in NYC anymore. Insane tax increases on just 1% of those living in NYC. Watch the mass exodus out of the city when this gets passed.

"New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has drawn national attention with his progressive agenda, a key piece of which is to push for higher taxes on the rich to pay for early education and after-school programs.

"Asking those at the top to help our kids get on the right path and stay there. That's our mission. And on that, we will not wait. We will do it now," de Blasio said in his inaugural address on New Year's Day. 

De Blasio wants to impose a 5-year tax increase on New York City residents who report more than $500,000 in taxable income. 

Even if enacted, the rate would still be below the highest in the 1990s, when the city raised it to 4.46% under Mayor David Dinkins to help pay for crime prevention and education. And it was 4.45% from 2003 through 2005 under Mayor Michael Bloomberg when the city was short of money. 

Under de Blasio's proposal, a single filer with $800,000 in taxable income could pay about $1,500 more a year than he does now, while a married couple with three kids making $1.5 million might pay closer to $5,200 more. The proposal would affect roughly 40,000 New York City tax filers -- or 1.1%."


----------



## FeXL

Ten months old, but confirms the Fed's intention to make the sequester as difficult as possible.

Email tells feds to make sequester as painful as promised



> n the internal email, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service official Charles Brown said he asked if he could try to spread out the sequester cuts in his region to minimize the impact, and he said he was told not to do anything that would lessen the dire impacts Congress had been warned of.
> 
> “We have gone on record with a notification to Congress and whoever else that ‘APHIS would eliminate assistance to producers in 24 states in managing wildlife damage to the aquaculture industry, unless they provide funding to cover the costs.’ So it is our opinion that however you manage that reduction, you need to make sure you are not contradicting what we said the impact would be,” Mr. Brown, in the internal email, said his superiors told him.


Nice...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Glad I don't live in NYC anymore. Insane tax increases on just 1% of those living in NYC. Watch the mass exodus out of the city when this gets passed.
> 
> "New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has drawn national attention with his progressive agenda, a key piece of which is to push for higher taxes on the rich to pay for early education and after-school programs.
> 
> "Asking those at the top to help our kids get on the right path and stay there. That's our mission. And on that, we will not wait. We will do it now," de Blasio said in his inaugural address on New Year's Day.
> 
> De Blasio wants to impose a 5-year tax increase on New York City residents who report more than $500,000 in taxable income.
> 
> Even if enacted, the rate would still be below the highest in the 1990s, when the city raised it to 4.46% under Mayor David Dinkins to help pay for crime prevention and education. And it was 4.45% from 2003 through 2005 under Mayor Michael Bloomberg when the city was short of money.
> 
> Under de Blasio's proposal, a single filer with $800,000 in taxable income could pay about $1,500 more a year than he does now, while a married couple with three kids making $1.5 million might pay closer to $5,200 more. The proposal would affect roughly 40,000 New York City tax filers -- or 1.1%."


de Blasio is an arsehole of the first order. His attack on Central Park horse drawn carriages demonstrates the depth of his idiocy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> de Blasio is an arsehole of the first order. His attack on Central Park horse drawn carriages demonstrates the depth of his idiocy.


If these attacks keep up, be they the carriages in Central Park or millionaires, he shall be a one-term mayor. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

One term is too long for him, after the damge done by Bloomberg.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> One term is too long for him, after the damge done by Bloomberg.


Well, he was voted in and those who will fall under his new "tax on the rich" scheme will just have to pay more if they earn more than $500,000. Sadly, once a tax on the rich is implemented, it is just a matter of time that they soak the rich even more, especially when it is being wasted each year of child care centers, early learning programs, homeless shelters and the like. Soon, it will just lead to another financial meltdown, as the bankers and stock brokers who may fall into this group will have to earn more and more money, taking more and more risks, just to make ends meet. A million dollars does not go far in NYC as it did way back when. It might just buy you a good condo in Trump Towers, but leave nothing else to live on.

Specifically, what sorts of "damage" do you attribute to Bloomberg?


----------



## Macfury

I think a city income tax itself is disgraceful, when taxes are already indexed to property value.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think a city income tax itself is disgraceful, when taxes are already indexed to property value.


I had just started to work when I was 16 when the NYC Income Tax was introduced. Had to pay about $15 my first year of part-time work, which was about a week's salary after taxes.


----------



## Macfury

Bully for you.


----------



## Rps

I guess this argument is a case of "peasants should never audit kings"


----------



## FeXL

Further on massaged unemployment numbers...

Even MSNBC Is Shocked By How "Ugly" and "Awful" and "Horrific" the December Jobs Creation Figure Is



> As you know, the unemployment rate is falling only because the number of people seeking work is falling faster. All of the "improvements" in the unemployment rate are due to discouraged workers leaving the workforce entirely.


When you've lost MSNBC...

Spin, spin, spin...


----------



## FeXL

What, a lefty politician lying? 

Report: CO Senator Pressured Department to Falsify Insurance Cancellation Numbers



> According to local reports, Senator Mark Udall (D-CO) pressured the Colorado Division of Insurance to change its estimate of how many private insurance plans had been cancelled in November 2013, as the Obama administration faced crisis over cancellations across the country.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, I'd love to see this happen...

Obama's Disdain For The Constitution Means We Risk Losing Our Republic



> Since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law, he has changed it five times. Most notably, he suspended the employer mandate last summer. This is widely known, but almost no one seems to have grasped its significance.
> 
> *The Constitution authorizes the President to propose and veto legislation. It does not authorize him to change existing laws. The changes Mr. Obama ordered in Obamacare, therefore, are unconstitutional.*


In a nutshell:



> *Surely, rejection of the Constitution is grounds for impeachment and charges should be filed.*


My bold.


----------



## FeXL

I don't know what to call this...Getting Screwed?

Taxpayers Paid Nearly $175M for Penis Pumps Between 2006 and 2011



> axpayers paid nearly $175 million for vacuum erection systems (VES), commonly known as “penis pumps,” from 2006 to 2011, according to an inspector general report released on Monday.
> 
> *The federal government paid more than double the retail price* for VES, the Department of Health and Human Services IG found. Medicare prices for the systems, the report said, “remain grossly excessive compared with the amounts that non-Medicare payers pay.”


My bold.

Damn, it hurts to bite my cheek that hard...


----------



## FeXL

Better & better...NOT!

World's Most Famous Hacker, Kevin Mitnick, Calls Obamacare's Complete Lack of Security "Shameful"



> [M]itnick wrote: "It's shameful the team that built the Healthcare.gov site implemented minimal, if any, security best practices to mitigate the significant risk of a system compromise."


So, the Dems totally own this, right? Not a single Republican voted for it, right? So, how does Reuters spin it?



> ...that Republicans, rather than hackers and security experts, are trying to scare people about Healthcare.gov's lack of security.


----------



## FeXL

The Root of Obama’s Imperious Presidency



> Sure, contempt for Congress and the Constitutional process – as well as the absolute certainty that his motives and agenda are unquestionably right and just – all plays into it. But there’s another critical piece to this: Obama is, for a politician, a relative loner who doesn’t want to be bugged by members of Congress. Of either Party.
> 
> He has no famous chums in Congress. He has few relationships of any sort with lawmakers. *Really what he wants to do is make his decisions in the Oval Office, have a few meetings, give some speeches on college campuses and at high schools, and play golf. *And then send Jay Carney out to talk about how Republicans are intransigent, politically motivated hacks who don’t even wear deodorant.
> 
> Well, yes, the Congress was in fact designed to include people committed to principles and also worried about getting reelected. The trick is to use various carrots and sticks to get them to do you bidding.
> 
> The grunt work of legislating is not for him. That’s why he passed through the Illinois legislature and the United States Senate leaving not a trace of evidence he was ever there.


Yup.

This whole menial labour thing is so...distasteful.


----------



## FeXL

How quickly the American Political Thread falls off the front page these days. What, nothing for the progressives to cheer about? Surely Obama isn't a complete & total loser. The only option left is to criticize PM Harper? Go figger...

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot. When you're losing the insurance companies...

Aetna CEO: We might have to pull out of ObamaCare because it’s not attracting uninsured



> One of the nation’s biggest health insurers is worried enough about a scenario in which it would have to pull out of Obamacare exchanges that its CEO is willing to talk about the possibility on national TV from Davos. It may be partly a signal to the administration to get this train moving, but it’s no doubt also a reckoning with reality. *Obamacare is not attracting the uninsured,* and if the administration would stop changing the rules long enough for insurers to get a handle on who is in the exchange population, they’d no doubt find that population is far more sick and expensive than it was supposed to be.


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Further on the Charlie Foxtrot. When you're losing the insurance companies...


It is an unmitigated disaster, attracting only the sickest and oldest of the population--instead of Pajama Boy, who was supposed to subsidize them. The state to state results are appaliing, meaning that many Americans are soon to see the ire of 50,000 IRS agents shaking them down according to Obama's law.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> How quickly the American Political Thread falls off the front page these days. What, nothing for the progressives to cheer about?


The fact that you guys would label Obama as "progressive" shows how shallow is your understanding of American politics. He's been a great friend to Wall Street, the coal industry, big business in general, the warmongering crowd, etc. He's little more than a (much more) literate Bush at this point.

"Progressive"? You need to update your dictionary...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The fact that you guys would label Obama as "progressive" shows how shallow is your understanding of American politics. He's been a great friend to Wall Street, the coal industry, big business in general, the warmongering crowd, etc. He's little more than a (much more) literate Bush at this point.
> 
> "Progressive"? You need to update your dictionary...



That is progressivism--croney capitalism married to massive social programs and expansion of government.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> the coal industry,


Huh? He's single-handedly dismantled the American coal industry, flexing his muscle through the EPA.


----------



## CubaMark

I know that's the dominant position in much of the U.S. media, but the Obama administration has also thrown billions in research funds and grants to ensure that technology is available for coal producers to meet new carbon sequester regulations (Grist) and push "clean coal" - coal aint' going anywhere under Obama... if anything he's doing his best to ensure it sticks around...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I know that's the dominant position in much of the U.S. media, but the Obama administration has also thrown billions in research funds and grants to ensure that technology is available for coal producers to meet new carbon sequester regulations (Grist) and push "clean coal" - coal aint' going anywhere under Obama... if anything he's doing his best to ensure it sticks around...


The DOE "investments" are Congressionally mandated, so if Obama's hand is in it, it's only in sending a billion dollars to his home state on a project that will go nowhere. The "sequester" technology is nonsense.


----------



## MacDoc

gotta love those Norwegians.....right on the money again. :clap:




> *Snowden Nominated by Norway Lawmakers for Nobel Peace Prize*
> By Saleha Mohsin Jan 29, 2014 7:53 AM ET
> 
> Edward Snowden was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Norwegian politicians, including a former government minister, for contributing to transparency and global stability by exposing a U.S. surveillance program.
> 
> “The public debate and changes in policy that have followed in the wake of Snowden’s whistleblowing have contributed to a more stable and peaceful world order,” Norwegian parliamentarians Snorre Valen and Baard Vegar Solhjell said in the nomination letter obtained by Bloomberg.


Snowden Nominated by Norway Lawmakers for Nobel Peace Prize - Bloomberg


----------



## Macfury

MacDoc said:


> gotta love those Norwegians.....right on the money again. :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snowden Nominated by Norway Lawmakers for Nobel Peace Prize - Bloomberg


It's just weird that they nominated the NSA's biggest booster--Obama--for the same honour.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It's just weird that they nominated the NSA's biggest booster--Obama--for the same honour.


Hopefully the Nobel committee will save themselves any further embarrassment and strike BO from the list.


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of BO & embarrassment...

Kevin Williamson on the Grisly Farce That Is the State of the Union



> The annual State of the Union pageant is a hideous, dispiriting, ugly, monotonous, un-American, un-republican, anti-democratic, dreary, backward, monarchical, retch-inducing, depressing, shameful, crypto-imperial display of official self-aggrandizement and piteous toadying, a black Mass during which every unholy order of teacup totalitarian and cringing courtier gathers under the towering dome of a faux-Roman temple to listen to a speech with no content given by a man with no content, to rise and to be seated as is called for by the order of worship — it is a wonder they have not started genuflecting — with one wretched representative of their number squirreled away in some well-upholstered Washington hidey-hole in order to preserve the illusion that those gathered constitute a special class of humanity without whom we could not live.
> 
> It’s the most nauseating display in American public life — and I write that as someone who has just returned from a pornographers’ convention.


Wow. Kevin's got to get down off that fence & form an opinion.

Can't find a single thing on which to disagree...

More from the link inside.


----------



## FeXL

This is very interesting.

Feds Cannot Require A State To Carry Out Federal Acts



> Is this legal?
> 
> In short, absolutely. The State laws do not come into conflict with Federal laws in any legal sense.
> 
> All of these proposals are based on the widely accepted legal principle known as the “anti-commandeering doctrine.”
> 
> This means the Federal government cannot require a State to carry out Federal acts. The Federal government can pass a law and try to enforce it, but your State isn’t required to help them.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> This is very interesting.
> 
> Feds Cannot Require A State To Carry Out Federal Acts


Too bad Canada's Finance minister is unaware of that as he prepares to knuckle under and throw 2 or 3 million Canadians under the IRS bus. Yes 2 million of them do not enjoy US citizship but have the misfortune to have once held a green card or gasp have married an American.

Mind you the damage is only devastating. Those targets who choose to comply will merely lose more than 1/4 of their life savings, those who do not 300-600% of their savings. Should do wonders for Canadian finances as seniors who should be living more or less on their savings are reduced to every form of welfare they can gather.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Too bad Canada's Finance minister is unaware of that as he prepares to knuckle under and throw 2 or 3 million Canadians under the IRS bus. Yes 2 million of them do not enjoy US citizship but have the misfortune to have once held a green card or gasp have married an American.
> 
> Mind you the damage is only devastating. Those targets who choose to comply will merely lose more than 1/4 of their life savings, those who do not 300-600% of their savings. Should do wonders for Canadian finances as seniors who should be living more or less on their savings are reduced to every form of welfare they can gather.


All too true, eMacMan. I am still waiting to hear back from the IRS having filed my US taxes last year. tptptptp


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> This is very interesting.
> 
> Feds Cannot Require A State To Carry Out Federal Acts


Yep. Much of the "big stick" tactics by the feds involves large payments sucked out of the other states for those who carry out their wishes.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> All too true, eMacMan. I am still waiting to hear back from the IRS having filed my US taxes last year. tptptptp


Since moving to Canada I have never heard back from the IRS except on the one occasion when I had a small refund owed me. People who enter into the OVDI usually hear nothing for a very long time then are forced to scramble to meet competely unreasonable deadlines.


----------



## eMacMan

A sample from a submission to a US Senate committee hearing, this woman's son is mentally disabled and therefore cannot renounce his US citizenship leaving any savings she sets aside for him completely vulnerable:


> Consider as one recent (January 13, 2014) example (a 6048/RDSP fiasco) the widely published (including CBC National News broadcast) situation of a 70 year- old Canadian mother who has a developmentally disabled son entrapped by U.S. tax laws and citizenship.
> To provide for his future in Canada she established a Registered Disability Savings Plan (RDSP), unfortunately taxed by the U.S. as a “foreign trust.” This trust is subject to foreign trust reporting under section 6048 of the Internal Revenue Code. In addition, the trust would be treated as a grantor trust under section 679 which means that the mother would have to report all income earned by the trust. She is caught in a U.S. “tax quagmire” that she fears she may lose the money she set aside for her son’s financial future.
> This Calgary Canada mother cannot pay the costs of IRS compliance (thousands of dollars every year) in relation to this RDSP for her son living in Canada. Neither this woman, nor her son, have any relationship at all with the U.S. She says:
> “I want to have my hard-earned Canadian money that I’ve saved to go to my children, not to the U.S. or some compliance tax lawyers year after year after year after year.
> I wanted my son to have something when I was gone from this Earth and so I was a saver. And now I don’t want the U.S. to take one penny that should go to my children.”


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Since moving to Canada I have never heard back from the IRS except on the one occasion when I had a small refund owed me. People who enter into the OVDI usually hear nothing for a very long time then are forced to scramble to meet competely unreasonable deadlines.


Still, I need to know that they accept the fact that I don't owe any US taxes in that I would like to travel to the US again someday.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> A sample from a submission to a US Senate committee hearing, this woman's son is mentally disabled and therefore cannot renounce his US citizenship leaving any savings she sets aside for him completely vulnerable:


Yes, I read this in the Globe and Mail. Totally insane. tptptptp


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Still, I need to know that they accept the fact that I don't owe any US taxes in that I would like to travel to the US again someday.


One thing I have really come to appreciate about the CRA is that they provide the notice of assessment not too long after you submit your returns. While it simply establishes that the math is correct, as long as you know you have included all of your income and your return is fairly simple it is a good indicator that they will not come back on you later.

As to being able to travel soused side you might be better off revoking or relinquishing your American citizenship. Then you will have to submit an 8854, which as long as your net worth is under $2 million, should completely finish your US obligations. Spend the $20 so you get the tracer and can prove they received it. You will still have to file taxes, F(u)BARs, 8938s ................................ to the date of receiving your CLN (loss of nationality). After that you will be allowed up to 120 days/year south of the border with no tax consequences. Until then it would be a very good idea to keep it under 30 days/year. Otherwise the threshold for 8938s can be dropped to $50,000 total accounts.


----------



## MacDoc

*Barack brings it home*

despite stupidity on the part of the Houses....the numbers are good and looks like he is willing to exercise executive power to bypass Congress and Senate :clap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEaZq6GgeB0


----------



## Macfury

The good news is that Obama can actually do next to nothing through Executive Order. He's been gabbling about this for years, and despite his disdain fo the Constitution which he has sworn to uphold, there is little evidence that he's done more than meddle. 

Just the talk of someone whose poll numbers are plummeting.

I'm a little surprised to see you applauding this weak speech so. Even the major news outlets who typically act as the White House media arm seemed a little embarrassed by it.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The good news is that Obama can actually do next to nothing through Executive Order. He's been gabbling about this for years, and despite his disdain fo the Constitution which he has sworn to uphold, there is little evidence that he's done more than meddle.
> 
> Just the talk of someone whose poll numbers are plummeting.
> 
> I'm a little surprised to see you applauding this weak speech so. Even the major news outlets who typically act as the White House media arm seemed a little embarrassed by it.


It is rather easy to claim you are upholding the Constitution when your predecessor shredded most of it. That said, I see the 2nd amendment is still more or less intact, but BO has that one squarely in his sights.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> It is rather easy to claim you are upholding the Constitution when your predecessor shredded most of it. That said, I see the 2nd amendment is still more or less intact, but BO has that one squarely in his sights.


To this I say--good luck with that! It ain't happening, any more than the U.S. is experiencing some sort of economic recovery. Just tell Boxer the horse to keep working harder!


----------



## groovetube

most useless congress ever. Hopefully people keep this in mind when the mid term elections come up.


----------



## eMacMan

Another more horrific example, of the true IRS intent under FATCA. Again Canada is not home to wealthy tax cheats. Anyone meeting the criteria of wealthy is paying higher taxes here than stateside. The goal is and was from the very beginning those obscene penalties for not filing informational forms. Forms of which fewer than 1 in 50 "Americans" living in Canada are even aware. Do take the time to read the linked pdf.



> The United States of America and the Internal Revenue Service should hang their heads in shame because of the way that they treated Patricia Anderson D’Addario, a U.S. citizen living in Canada. Consider a single example of the extreme hardship demonstrated by Ms. D’Addario at:
> http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/patricia_anderson_daddario.pdf
> In particular, this dual U.S./Canadian citizen tells the W&M Committee that although she has never owed any tax to the IRS, she has paid tax preparers “$42,000 since 1989 to fill out U.S. tax returns on [her] behalf” and that her cost “to hire a cross border accountant going forward is at least 12% of [Ms. D’Addario’s] gross income, which is made up of social security and a minimal amount of interest...”
> She adds: “One of my doctors who wrote to the IRS requesting that more reasonable deadlines be given because of my health conditions referred to the final outcome as financial rape.” and “I used to be such a proud American...I am now reluctant to call myself an overseas representative of the USA.”
> It should be noted that this is the treatment received by an honest taxpayer who was doing her very best to comply with a system that she (and most others) could not understand.
> We repeat: this is how the U.S. government treated an honest retiree who was desperately trying to comply with the system.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> most useless congress ever. Hopefully people keep this in mind when the mid term elections come up.


I think the electorate will respond by giving the Republicans a few more Senate seats.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I *sincerely hope* the electorate will respond by giving the Republicans a few more Senate seats.


Fixed that for ya.


----------



## Macfury

We have a sort of general rule about changing people's quotes on EhMac. It isn't done.


----------



## groovetube

Really? I've had mine changed a few times, I didn't realize the rule was only for certain members.

If it offends you I'll respect that.


----------



## CubaMark

*The state of the union speech Barack Obama would never give*



> With few exceptions (such as Gerald Ford's blunt 1975 assessment that "the state of the union is not good") the president's annual report to Congress is an exercise in reassuring Americans they are exceptional, blessed by God, leading the world, and headed for better things.
> 
> Last night's was no different; at best, it amounted to an optimistic statement of intent by a president who has been thwarted constantly by other arms of government since assuming office.
> 
> So, let's imagine what an outsider like, say, me, might submit if asked for a more succinct, less varnished assessment of the state of the American union. It would probably go something like this:


(Full story at CBC)


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Really? I've had mine changed a few times, I didn't realize the rule was only for certain members.
> 
> If it offends you I'll respect that.


Appreciated.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *The state of the union speech Barack Obama would never give*
> 
> 
> 
> (Full story at CBC)


I agree with about half of it. That's a funny piece.


----------



## FeXL

Keystone XL oil pipeline clears significant hurdle 



> The long-delayed Keystone XL oil pipeline cleared a major hurdle toward approval Friday, a serious blow to environmentalists' hopes that President Barack Obama will block the controversial project running more than 1,000 miles from Canada through the heart of the U.S.
> 
> *The State Department reported no major environmental objections to the proposed $7 billion pipeline*, which has become a symbol of the political debate over climate change. Republicans and some oil- and gas-producing states in the U.S. - as well as Canada's minister of natural resources - cheered the report, but it further rankled environmentalists already at odds with Obama and his energy policy.


M'bold.

Wonder what kinds of excuses Obie'll come up with this time...


----------



## FeXL

Further on EPA climate regulations.

Senators urge Obama to reconsider climate regs



> Twenty-two senators implored President Obama on Friday to halt plans to impose new emission limits on existing power plants, warning the forthcoming regulations would hit ratepayers in their pocketbooks.


I don't expect King Obie to listen...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Keystone XL.

Build the Keystone pipeline, already!



> President Obama frequently says he wants to turn the economy around, put America back to work, produce more energy, improve public safety, and open new markets to goods stamped “Made in the USA.” In his State of the Union address he said, if congressional inaction continues, “I will act on my own to slash bureaucracy and streamline the permitting process for key projects, so we can get more construction workers on the job as fast as possible.”


Hurry, Obie, hurry!



> The President needs to use his pen and phone to free our energy, economy and entrepreneurial instincts. But ANWR, OCS, HF, KXL and other solutions were AWOL from the SOTU. They were sacrificed on the CO2 and CMGW altar, by the POTUS, EPA, DOI and DOE, in obeisance to the EDF, NRDC, other environmentalist pressure groups, and assorted unelected, unaccountable, unconstitutional autocrats.


Sigh. Not So. Much...


----------



## FeXL

"Nope, Obamacare won't affect the number of hours worked by employees. Those numbers were already dropping. Nothing to see here..."

CBO nearly triples estimate of working hours lost by 2021 due to Affordable Care Act



> A historically high number of people will be locked out of the workforce by 2021, according to a report by the Congressional Budget Office released Tuesday.
> 
> *President Barack Obama's signature health-care law will contribute to this phenomenon, the CBO said, citing new estimates that the Affordable Care Act will cause a larger than-expected reduction in working hours—eliminating the equivalent of about 2.3 million workers in 2021.*
> 
> In 2011 the CBO estimated the law would cause a reduction of about 800,000 full-time equivalent workers.


M'bold.

Horse feathers & bull pucky...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> "Nope, Obamacare won't affect the number of hours worked by employees. Those numbers were already dropping. Nothing to see here..."


Some recent "hires" reported by the Administration are simply additional 29-hour employees now required to round out work schedules, after other employee hours were reduced.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Some recent "hires" reported by the Administration are simply additional 29-hour employees now required to round out work schedules, after other employee hours were reduced.


Exactly.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Some recent "hires" reported by the Administration are simply additional 29-hour employees now required to round out work schedules, after other employee hours were reduced.


Oh the congressional budget office is estimating?? :lmao:

You don't say....


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Oh the congressional budget office is estimating?? :lmao:
> 
> You don't say....


Groovetube, in all candour, if you have reason to think the independent CBO numbers are faulty then propose something intelligent to counter them. Why expend your energy on a post that boils down to a couple of Hee-Haw laffy faces?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Groovetube, in all candour, if you have reason to think the independent CBO numbers are faulty then propose something intelligent to counter them. Why expend your energy on a post that boils down to a couple of Hee-Haw laffy faces?


I rarely see you answering such questions, macfury, I'm a little (not) surprised you'd expect others to! I'm also somewhat amused that you would consider something considered 'independent' such an authority all of a sudden. I'm glad estimates are considered such fact for you.


----------



## Macfury

I tried, FeXL.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I tried, FeXL.


I know. I've been watching. Understood.



groovetube said:


> I rarely see you answering such questions, macfury, I'm a little (not) surprised you'd expect others to! I'm also somewhat amused that you would consider something considered 'independent' such an authority all of a sudden. I'm glad estimates are considered such fact for you.


And so you descend into that all too familiar hell of content-free posts. You've been balancing on the precipice for weeks now, it was only a matter of time.

Do you know how juvenile you sound? "You don't, so why do I have to?" There's a good solid response to a reasonable question. You may as well have said, "I know you are, but what am I?" Should we move this to the sandbox to accomodate your childish antics? Maybe you can run & tell teacher that the big kids are kicking sand in your face again. She'll wipe the tears from your ruddy cheeks and the snot from your nose, pat you on back & give you a little kiss on the top of you head. Is that what you want? Then you can go play in the classroom where life isn't nearly as scary? Is that it?

Grow TF up, groovetube. You _should_ be well past that point in your life.

What is the issue with an independent analysis? Is there a better arbiter than someone who isn't partisan? Are we missing something here or are you totally off your f'ing gourd?

You don't like information with a conservative bent, you don't like information with a liberal bent, you don't like independent analysis. Is there anything that isn't disagreeable to you? Is there anything you _do_ like? Besides yourself? Does your wife put up with this sh1t? No? Then why do you expect anybody else to?

I don't know WTF is going on in your personal life but, please, for your sanity & for the sake of us who put up with your bull**** on a daily basis, go away. Just leave. Fix whatever it is that's creating this psychosis, take a deep breath and a week off, then decide if ehMac really is the place for you. 

If (against all indicators) you decide to return, try to act your age instead of your damn shoe size.

Now, go. Heal yourself...


----------



## FeXL

Further analysis on the CBO report covering the Charlie Foxtrot.

5 Devastating Obamacare Facts From CBO’s Latest Economic Report



> As predicted by its conservative opponents, Obamacare has indeed destroyed jobs, increased spending, and made health care less accessible.


----------



## FeXL

Where does the EPA go after coal?

Fearing they'll ‘be next,’ industries unite against Obama's climate change rules



> The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is developing a series of new rules meant to counter the effects of global warming, including new emissions standards for both existing and new power plants.
> 
> Those rules, the centerpiece of the president’s plan, threaten to further damage a coal industry that is already reeling, according to members of the new Partnership for a Better Energy Future.
> 
> As of Thursday, there were 30,000 fewer coal miners at work in the United States than there were 20 months ago, said Hal Quinn, president of the National Mining Association.
> 
> The group said the administration is bound to move onto other industries once the power plant rules are in place.
> 
> “Quite simply, we know what’s at stake,” said NAM President Jay Timmons. “When the EPA is through with power plants, it will move on to manufacturing facilities. We all know we will be next.”


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Cover Oregon Scandal: ‘If it’s true, someone’s going to prison’



> Cover Oregon’s Obamacare website is a mess. Months after its initial rollout, it still doesn’t work. It has more than a dozen outstanding critical errors. There is no date set for its completion.
> 
> But according to KATU-TV, it kept passing federal “gate reviews” easily during its development. How could that be?
> 
> Former state lawmaker Patrick Sheehan has been looking into the scandal. He has even spoken with the FBI about what he has found.
> 
> Pick through his and KATU’s investigation, and it looks like the Obama administration’s incentive system played a part on how Cover Oregon remains unable to cover anyone at all.


Further:



> President Obama promised in his interview with Bill O’Reilly that he would hold people accountable for Obamacare’s failures. But no one has been fired from his administration.


Guess he's avoided all mirrors lately...


----------



## FeXL

I've read a number of articles about this lately.

TICK TOCK: The Countdown To Government Confiscation Of Your Retirement Savings Has Begun



> Simply put, the new myRA program put forward by Obama is at best a sucker's deal… or worse, it's a first step toward the nationalization of private retirement savings... Even before the new myRA program was announced, there had been whispers about the need for the US government to assume some risk for US retirement accounts. That's code for forced conversion of private retirement assets into government bonds.


Three guesses as to how gov't management of your retirement funds will turn out. First two don't count...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> I've read a number of articles about this lately.
> 
> TICK TOCK: The Countdown To Government Confiscation Of Your Retirement Savings Has Begun
> 
> 
> 
> Three guesses as to how gov't management of your retirement funds will turn out. First two don't count...


Given that gov't bonds on the soused side of the border are showing slightly negative returns (after fees are paid), this is not a good deal for the consumer.


----------



## eMacMan

I see that BO has the propaganda machine going full bore: accusing Republirats who want to scrap FATCA as helping wealthy tax cheats. 

The IRS has admitted that it will be lucky to collect a mere Billion dollars in back taxes. This is because almost all Americans who chose to live elsewhere are paying higher taxes in their new locations and they get a tax credit stateside for those taxes paid.

The real bonanza for the IRS is all of those various information forms. No one is really sure how many there are. The F(u)BAR and the 8938 are the best known, but they all have one thing in common. They have no impact on the taxes owed and if you fail to fill one out the penalties are so horrendous that the IRS can and presumably will take every thing you have.

Interestingly there is a very easy way to modify FATCA so it does not go after peoples life savings. Simply change the definition of foreign accounts to mean "accounts in any country other than the taxpayers country of residence", as opposed to the current "any country other than the US". Anyone living in the US and maintaining offshore accounts (that would be the wealthy and immigrants) would be potential victims. Of the 6 million Americans living abroad 5,999,000 of them would no longer have to choose between being able to retire some day or maintaining their US citizenship.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Given that gov't bonds on the soused side of the border are showing slightly negative returns (after fees are paid), this is not a good deal for the consumer.


A quote from Milton Friedman comes to mind:



> If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.


Keep the bastards the hell away from private investment funds. Period...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> A quote from Milton Friedman comes to mind:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep the bastards the hell away from private investment funds. Period...


Better yet keep them away from the lifetime savings of millions of Americans living abroad!

Congress needs to get off its collective ar5 and repeal FATCA.


----------



## groovetube

We've seen ow a few times how the republicans have been caught with their pants down with BS people held up as examples of a failed Obamacare setup, and of course, the BS is reaching epic proportions.

The shouting about the recent CBO report, is yet again, another example of the stupidity, and twisted logic.

No, the CBO Report Does Not Say that Obamacare Will Kill 2 Million Jobs

Jon Stewart of course, once again blows a total hole in this bag of lies. Of course, it's not the kind of link the detractors will ever click, but that's just how it is.

Note the video clip he shows of the CBO director when asked about this... :lmao:
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - February 6, 2014


----------



## Macfury

GT, economic analysis is not your strong suit. The equivalent of 2.5 million jobs will leave the economy because people will be receiving another form of welfare that provides a disincentive to work--the CBO says exactly that. Do you believe that fewer people working fewer hours is a good thing for the US economy?




groovetube said:


> We've seen ow a few times how the republicans have been caught with their pants down with BS people held up as examples of a failed Obamacare setup, and of course, the BS is reaching epic proportions.
> 
> The shouting about the recent CBO report, is yet again, another example of the stupidity, and twisted logic.
> 
> No, the CBO Report Does Not Say that Obamacare Will Kill 2 Million Jobs
> 
> Jon Stewart of course, once again blows a total hole in this bag of lies. Of course, it's not the kind of link the detractors will ever click, but that's just how it is.
> 
> Note the video clip he shows of the CBO director when asked about this... :lmao:
> The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - February 6, 2014


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> GT, economic analysis is not your strong suit. The equivalent of 2.5 million jobs will leave the economy because people will be receiving another form of welfare that provides a disincentive to work--the CBO says exactly that. Do you believe that fewer people working fewer hours is a good thing for the US economy?


It appears economic analysis isn't your strongest suit either, since you never bothered to hear what the CBO actually said, or tried to continue this ridiculous spin by the republicans.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> It appears economic analysis isn't your strongest suit either, since you never bothered to hear what the CBO actually said, or tried to continue this ridiculous spin by the republicans.


I heard exactly what the CBO said--the direct result of Obamacare is that the US economy will lose the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs. I am not "the republicans"and I have little interest in what some Republicans are saying. The discussion is between us on EhMac regarding what the CBO report says.

So let's review: 
1. Initially you were going off half-cocked because the CBO offered an estimate. That wasn't good enough for you. You posted laffy faces and said the report deserved no credit.
2. You watch a single episode of the _Daily Show_, got religion, and now the CBO estimate is good. It means something. 

So now that we agree that the economy will lose the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs under Obamacare, I ask you again--is that a good thing?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I heard exactly what the CBO said--the direct result of Obamacare is that the US economy will lose the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs. I am not "the republicans"and I have little interest in what some Republicans are saying. The discussion is between us on EhMac regarding what the CBO report says.
> 
> So let's review:
> 1. Initially you were going off half-cocked because the CBO offered an estimate. That wasn't good enough for you. You posted laffy faces and said the report deserved no credit.
> 2. You watch a single episode of the _Daily Show_, got religion, and now the CBO estimate is good. It means something.
> 
> So now that we agree that the economy will lose the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs under Obamacare, I ask you again--is that a good thing?


You need to pay a little more attention macfury.

I laughed at the CBO estimate because of the flying monkeys in the US started shrieking about millions of job losses and trillions add to the deficit. I was pretty sure this was, once again, nothing but of bunch of twisted nonsense put out as fact.

I read more information, and I included the Jon Stewart bit because he had a video clip of the CBO director, who directly contradicted all of these brainless claims. I suspected you wouldn't bother, to dignify that with some attention. Because it certainly, blew a huge hole in this nonsense.

So no, I'm not good with any of these fabrications, especially after seeing the director clarify them. I'm sure we'll see more as more of the truth comes out. The republicans have already been caught fabricating things about this so, one really take what they're shouting this time, with a bit of suspicion. And it appears, rightly so.

I have no doubt these fabricated and spun claims with continue to be repeated and shouted because well, it apparently needs to be! 

Though I'm sure you're really wishing this to be true!


----------



## Macfury

Earth to groovetube. I never said anything about trillions in deficits or flying monkeys. I said the US economy would shed the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs as a direct result of the _"Affordable" Care Act_. That's exactly what the CBO is saying. 

In other words, the CBO and I are in complete agreement. The CBO and I were in complete agreement before you watched the _Daily Show_. The CBO and I are still in agreement after you watched the _Daily Show_. 

So is the loss of the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs to the US economy a good thing? If so, why?





groovetube said:


> You need to pay a little more attention macfury.
> 
> I laughed at the CBO estimate because of the flying monkeys in the US started shrieking about millions of job losses and trillions add to the deficit. I was pretty sure this was, once again, nothing but of bunch of twisted nonsense put out as fact.
> 
> I read more information, and I included the Jon Stewart bit because he had a video clip of the CBO director, who directly contradicted all of these brainless claims. I suspected you wouldn't bother, to dignify that with some attention. Because it certainly, blew a huge hole in this nonsense.
> 
> So no, I'm not good with any of these fabrications, especially after seeing the director clarify them. I'm sure we'll see more as more of the truth comes out. The republicans have already been caught fabricating things about this so, one really take what they're shouting this time, with a bit of suspicion. And it appears, rightly so.
> 
> I have no doubt these fabricated and spun claims with continue to be repeated and shouted because well, it apparently needs to be!
> 
> Though I'm sure you're really wishing this to be true!


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> I suspected you wouldn't bother, to dignify that with some attention. Because it certainly, blew a huge hole in this nonsense.


Macfury is handling your CBO BS quite well, he can continue.

I just want to address one, small, niggling, never-ending issue...

Rules for Comma Usage


Wanna bet that's a link _you'll_ never click on? It'll show in your next post...


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Earth to groovetube. I never said anything about trillions in deficits or flying monkeys. I said the US economy would shed the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs as a direct result of the _"Affordable" Care Act_. That's exactly what the CBO is saying.
> 
> In other words, the CBO and I are in complete agreement. The CBO and I were in complete agreement before you watched the _Daily Show_. The CBO and I are still in agreement after you watched the _Daily Show_.
> 
> So is the loss of the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs to the US economy a good thing? If so, why?


Apparently you aren't paying very close attention macfury. You have, like the other fools south of the border, taken something out of context, to make it sound like something else more ominous, because well, actually addressing what seems to be the real thing isn't your thing. After I saw what the CBO director said, you and the CBO, are NOT in complete agreement apparently.

Please pay more attention.


----------



## groovetube

Since you are incapable of actually listening to someone at the CBO clarify, here's a little gift for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euGHP_VRfrs

What's that?? Reducing unemployment and the deficit??? Holy crap!!!! GASP!!!!!

(Drops mic walking away laughing.)


----------



## Macfury

From the report:



> The reduction in CBO’s projections of hours worked represents a decline in the number of full-time-equivalent workers of about 2.0 million in 2017, rising to about 2.5 million in 2024.


Tell me exactly how the CBO director and I disagree groovetube. Expose my duplicity for all to see. Channel your inner Jon Stewart.



groovetube said:


> Apparently you aren't paying very close attention macfury. You have, like the other fools south of the border, taken something out of context, to make it sound like something else more ominous, because well, actually addressing what seems to be the real thing isn't your thing. After I saw what the CBO director said, you and the CBO, are NOT in complete agreement apparently.
> 
> Please pay more attention.


----------



## groovetube

see video macfury, it's better you get it from the horses mouth. Afterwards, you can push your version all you like!


----------



## Macfury

The same "horse" wrote the report. The questions on the video all relate to extremely short term results. The chickens come home to roost in 2017 as both FeXL and I said.

The Affordable Care Act offers a slight reduction in the deficit for a one-year period (2014 to 2015) by fining and charging fees to the American public (it is after all a tax):



> If current laws remained unchanged, revenues would increase as a share of GDP by 0.7 percentage points from 2014 to 2015, by CBO’s estimates. Slightly more than half of that increase would result from changes in tax provisions, including the recent expiration of various provisions affecting corporate and individual income taxes *and the implementation of fees and fines established by the Affordable Care Act*


Following that:



> Outlays for the major health care programs— Medicare (net of premiums and other offsetting receipts), Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and subsidies offered through health insurance exchanges and related spending—soon exceed outlays for Social Security. *Spending for those programs is estimated to total 5.1 percent of GDP in 2015 and to grow rapidly in coming years because of changes mandated by the Affordable Care Act, reaching 6.1 percent of GDP in 2024*.


The net result in unemployment occurs after 2017, following a brief stimulus resulting from increased subsidies. 



> CBO anticipates that output will return nearly to its maximum sustainable level in 2017 (Once that occurs, the net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply *because of the ACA will be fully reflected in a decline in total employment and hours worked relative to what would otherwise occur.*


Pick up your mic. You blew it.



groovetube said:


> What's that?? Reducing unemployment and the deficit??? Holy crap!!!! GASP!!!!!
> 
> (Drops mic walking away laughing.)


----------



## groovetube

> On page 125 of the report, the CBO says that the ACA will leave millions of Americans with extra money to spend, and that spending result in increased consumer demand, “The net increase in demand for goods and services will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years, CBO estimates.Those effects on labor demand tend to be especially strong under conditions such as those now prevailing in the United States, where output is so far below its maximum sustainable level that the Federal Reserve has kept short-term interest rates near zero for several years and probably would not adjust those rates to offset the effects of changes in federal spending and taxes. Over time, however, those effects are expected to dissipate as overall economic output moves back toward its maximum sustainable level.”


Interesting that this contradicts completely your nonsense.



> Republicans lied about what is in the report, and many members of our lazy mainstream press went right along with it. Just like death panels and the “millions of people” who had their insurance canceled, the Obamacare is a job killer talking point isn’t true.
> 
> Republicans do not want people to have affordable healthcare, and they will tell any lie in order to make sure that millions of Americans are unable to see a doctor when they get sick, or are swimming in debt after an illness.
> 
> Denial of access to healthcare is just another variety of the economic oppression that is the Republican way.


As I said, we've already seen the sheer terror and screaming complete with fabrications and twists of the facts to make them appear to support the apocalypse that's sure to come because of Obama.

The problem is, it's simply, not true.


----------



## i-rui

how is people no longer being forced to hold a certain job only because they once needed it for medical coverage a bad thing?

is being free to start their own business, follow their dreams, or take care of their family some kind of nightmare scenario?


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> how is people no longer being forced to hold a certain job only because they once needed it for medical coverage a bad thing?
> 
> is being free to start their own business, follow their dreams, or take care of their family some kind of nightmare scenario?


In republican speak, it means people can't be exploited as much now if they actually have options.

Somehow, lost in all of this stuff, ironically enough, was the original idea of the "American dream". They love to speak fondly of it, but in practice, they become very shrill at the very idea that the average hard working American might have a better chance at it.

What, spend more time with your family??? And here I thought the religious right was a fan of the idea of the stay at home mom!!! :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> how is people no longer being forced to hold a certain job only because they once needed it for medical coverage a bad thing?
> 
> is being free to start their own business, follow their dreams, or take care of their family some kind of nightmare scenario?


It is 2.5 million fewer people in the workforce. It doesn't matter if they're following their dreams, or painting frescoes on water towers on the public dime. Fewer people will be contributing to the tax base, while the level of government expenditures rises.

Maybe we should make cars and coffee free because some people would have to work less to afford their cuppa and transportation. Then they could follow their dreams instead of working so much!


----------



## groovetube

did it say, 2.5 million fewer JOBS?

Sounds like you're still playing a little footsie with the phrases like the republicans who are busy huffing and puffing.

Isn't there some death panels you need to warn people about?? :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> did it say, 2.5 million fewer JOBS?


Pay attention--a loss to the economy equivalent to 2.5 million jobs that would not have occurred without the _Affordable Care Act_..


----------



## groovetube

yup. Still playing footsie.


----------



## Macfury

It doesn't contradict anything I've said. But shoot--if you understand what you have posted, then explain exactly how it contradicts those statements.



groovetube said:


> Interesting that this contradicts completely your nonsense.





> On page 125 of the report, the CBO says that the ACA will leave millions of Americans with extra money to spend, and that spending result in increased consumer demand, “The net increase in demand for goods and services will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years, CBO estimates.Those effects on labor demand tend to be especially strong under conditions such as those now prevailing in the United States, where output is so far below its maximum sustainable level that the Federal Reserve has kept short-term interest rates near zero for several years and probably would not adjust those rates to offset the effects of changes in federal spending and taxes. Over time, however, those effects are expected to dissipate as overall economic output moves back toward its maximum sustainable level.”


----------



## groovetube

you're the one who is trumpeting this 'equivalent to 2.5 million jobs' loss thing as being a detriment.

I want to see a much more detailed explanation of your theory and what this means beyond some hand waving about tax revenue.


----------



## Macfury

I didn't think you could explain your post. Sorry you haven't demonstrated sufficient knowledge on the topic to warrant further discussion. I will be happy to continue the discussion with i-rui.


----------



## groovetube

That's what I thought.

A little footsie with some phrases, and that's all we get out of you.

You certainly have demonstrated a real knowledge on the issue yourself sir!


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> Maybe we should make cars and coffee free because some people would have to work less to afford their cuppa and transportation. Then they could follow their dreams instead of working so much!


i'd argue that healthcare is very different than cars and coffee. the net effect of what the CBO is hypothesizing would occur in any scenario where healthcare costs become affordable. IMO the US should have went with a single payer or public option, but either of those 2 would still have that same effect on jobs (perhaps even more pronounced under a single payer system like ours).

i guess if someone is against government subsidized healthcare they might see this as a negative, but given that the modern industrialized world (and now finally the US) has democratically instituted these policies i'd consider those against the concept clinging to some outdated ideology and not holding to the principles of the majority of people.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> i'd argue that healthcare is very different than cars and coffee. the net effect of what the CBO is hypothesizing would occur in any scenario where healthcare costs become affordable. IMO the US should have went with a single payer or public option, but either of those 2 would still have that same effect on jobs (perhaps even more pronounced under a single payer system like ours).
> 
> i guess if someone is against government subsidized healthcare they might see this as a negative, but given that the modern industrialized world (and now finally the US) has democratically instituted these policies i'd consider those against the concept clinging to some outdated ideology and not holding to the principles of the majority of people.


At this point. I'm not even considering the philosophical justification for the legislation. I'm looking strictly at outcomes, not the policy itself, so it really doesn't matter whether the disincentive to work comes from healthcare or cars or coffee. I'm only looking at the CBO projection.

If the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs are taken out of the US economy, then that results in lower GDP and a smaller tax base with higher government expenditures.

If you want government health care, then it should be devised in such a way that the economy does not contract as a result.


----------



## eMacMan

i-rui said:


> i'd argue that healthcare is very different than cars and coffee. the net effect of what the CBO is hypothesizing would occur in any scenario where healthcare costs become affordable. IMO the US should have went with a single payer or public option, but either of those 2 would still have that same effect on jobs (perhaps even more pronounced under a single payer system like ours).
> 
> i guess if someone is against government subsidized healthcare they might see this as a negative, but given that the modern industrialized world (and now finally the US) has democratically instituted these policies i'd consider those against the concept clinging to some outdated ideology and not holding to the principles of the majority of people.


American hospitals require a 40:1 ratio of bean counters as compared to their Canadian counter parts. Add in a similar number of bean counters on the insurance company side and you can see that single payer system would have a lot of bean counters flipping burgers, and/or living over mom and dad's garage.


----------



## FeXL

Time to buy popcorn futures?

The U.S. is Going Bankrupt One City at a Time



> Time to start watching U.S. cities go bankrupt. Prior to Detroit, there was Stockton, California, and, according to Stephen Moore, now the chief economist with the Heritage Foundation, there are more than sixty of the largest cities that “are plagued with the same kinds of retirement legacy costs that sent Detroit in Chapter 9 bankruptcy” last year.
> 
> “Keep an eye on ‘too big to fail’ cities like Chicago, Philadelphia, and New York,” he warned. Among the twenty cities he listed in an August 2013 Newsmax article, he cited Compton and Oakland, CA, Harrisburg, PA, and Providence, RI. What these and other cities have in common is that “the vast majority are located in states with forced unions, non-right-to-work states.”


----------



## Macfury

Harrisburg already applied for bankruptcy once, but was denied by the court.


----------



## groovetube

Ah the illusion of cut taxes! Cut taxes! Cut taxes! Slowly comes to roost.

Best to blame it on the working people and their damn entitlement of pensions etc.

But hey! Gotta protect the right for the rich to buy another house in the hamptons! 

Fight for them! Fight macfury!


----------



## Macfury

What has this got to do with Harrisburg declaring bankruptcy?




groovetube said:


> Ah the illusion of cut taxes! Cut taxes! Cut taxes! Slowly comes to roost.
> 
> Best to blame it on the working people and their damn entitlement of pensions etc.
> 
> But hey! Gotta protect the right for the rich to buy another house in the hamptons!
> 
> Fight for them! Fight macfury!


----------



## groovetube

You're right not having enough tax revenue has nothing to do with it at all!


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> You're right not having enough tax revenue has nothing to do with it at all!


From the article I linked to:



> “Put simply,” says Smith, “most progressive cities are welfare city-states in which a large percentage of the population lives on government money, either as government dependents or government employees.” This description fits the nation as well.
> 
> How bad are the present times? *“27 percent of Americans have no savings at all, 46 percent have savings of less than $800, and 76% of Americans now live paycheck to paycheck.”*


M'bold.

Tell me, oh wise one, just what more taxes would have done to help these people?

Jeezuz...


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> You're right not having enough tax revenue has nothing to do with it at all!


That's right. Harrisburg is a city of 49,000 whose government spent $350 million on a screwed-up incinerator project.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> That's right. Harrisburg is a city of 49,000 whose government spent $350 million on a screwed-up incinerator project.


And this is causing US cities to go bankrupt one by one?


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> And this is causing US cities to go bankrupt one by one?


You're addressing the wrong poster.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> You're addressing the wrong poster.


there's just you.


----------



## groovetube

It's interesting how you don't hear o see any press whatsoever on this sort of thing:
15 Photos From The Massive Progressive Protest You Didn't Hear About This Weekend | ThinkProgress


----------



## SINC

Another of those independent, always reputable and reliable web sites you frequent?


----------



## groovetube

Well I don't know that they photoshopped the protest SINC. It's been reported in a few places, just not the bigger media.

It's a well known thing that a lot of really huge massive protests receive next to nothing in coverage. You see some pretty jaw dropping massive crowds on twitter, and other social media sites where people who were there posting pictures of them as they happen, just not in mainstream media.

For some, reason. Often you see the images, people saying they cannot believe it's nowhere to be found on mainstream media.

Just because CNN doesn't report it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Mainstream media, just wants you to believe it isn't true. Is it working?


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> there's just you.


Uh, no. I only mentioned Harrisburg.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> It's interesting how you don't hear o see any press whatsoever on this sort of thing:
> 15 Photos From The Massive Progressive Protest You Didn't Hear About This Weekend | ThinkProgress


It's been reported everywhere--it's just not very interesting. USA Today mainstream enough for you?

Groups take moral stand against GOP policies at march


----------



## groovetube

Have you ever been to Harrisburg? Stayed and played there a whole lot. Should ask some friends there what they think of what's happening in their big metropolis and how their demise is a sign of a crumbling america. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Have you ever been to Harrisburg? Stayed and played there a whole lot. Should ask some friends there what they think of what's happening in their big metropolis and how their demise is a sign of a crumbling america. :lmao:


What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> It's been reported everywhere--it's just not very interesting. USA Today mainstream enough for you?
> 
> Groups take moral stand against GOP policies at march


you seem to have a lot to say about Harrisburg macfury, wondered if you've even been there.

And for that ^^, interesting, I didn't see that.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> there's just you.


How many drummers does it take to have a conversation on ehMac?

Just one, 'cause the world revolves around you...


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> you seem to have a lot to say about Harrisburg macfury, wondered if you've even been there.


So, what's the thrust here?

You have to have been to a city before you can have a legitimate opinion on what's happening there?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> So, what's the thrust here?
> 
> You have to have been to a city before you can have a legitimate opinion on what's happening there?


I've been to Harrisburg, but I have no idea why he's so stuck on it. All I said was that they had already applied for bankruptcy once because of an incinerator deal.


----------



## groovetube

Oh you've been, why didn't you say so. I was curious if you knew it at all. What brought you to Harrisburg? Not a common destination.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I've been to Harrisburg, but I have no idea why he's so stuck on it.


Hey, he's been to Armpit, AZ, too...


----------



## groovetube

ha ha. When BS meets facts.

Never a pretty sight. The first one is quite funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS0CvVE-tAY


----------



## Macfury

That's lame-ass stuff. Most newspeople are duds, and you can find the same crap on any of the news networks.


----------



## groovetube

and repeated in forums it seems!


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> and repeated in forums it seems!


Ad nauseam...


----------



## FeXL

More on the Charlie Foxtrot...

Businesses must swear to the IRS that Obamacare had nothing to do with firings



> The most coercive law in American history just got more coercive.
> 
> In delaying the employer mandate - again - the White House made it clear that businesses thinking of downsizing their company to avoid Obamacare mandates better think again.


More:



> "Under penalty of perjury..." Apparently, lying to a grand jury about sex is OK but lying to the IRS about Obamacare will land you in jail.


Yep...


----------



## FeXL

Ten little Second Thoughts from Grumpy Cat to put a smile on your face.

Grumpy Kat's Second Thoughts.................


----------



## Dr.G.

Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes - Feb. 14, 2014

CEO: Quit complaining about being poor - CNN.com Video

The poor should stop complaining. "The business of America is business."

Sounds like a plan. Warren Buffet would be the only person needed to vote in Nebraska. His would be the deciding vote.


----------



## Dr.G.

This, however, goes a bit too far.

"Venture capitalist Tom Perkins came under fire after publicly comparing the experience of wealthy Americans to a deadly Nazi campaign that preceded the Holocaust."

Investor compares U.S. wealth debate to Nazi Germany - Jan. 26, 2014


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Republicans open investigations into ObamaCare’s disaster sites



> Lawmakers are setting their sites on exchanges in Oregon, Maryland and Massachusetts, where Democratic governors embraced the healthcare law, and are demanding to know why their expensive online portals remain useless more than four months after launch.
> 
> *On Wednesday, four Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee sent a letter to the Government Accountability Office (GAO) requesting a review of the $304 million in federal grants that Oregon received to build its broken website.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

CBO has another conclusion out.

CBO: Raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour could eliminate 500,000 jobs by 2016



> I’m treating it as good news. At least 500,000 people won’t have to worry about “job-lock” now.
> 
> There’s no problem here that indefinite unemployment benefits can’t solve, my friends.


Yep.

How 'bout it, groove? Have some nonsense to spray all over this, too?


----------



## FeXL

I ran across the link inside a few days back, found it faintly amusing. This elaborates on the concept.

Survey: More Democrats Think Astrology is "Scientific," Fewer Understand The Earth Revolves Around the Sun



> Aebly digested by Maet last night, a new survey suggests that The Party of Science may not be quite as firm on the concept of science as advertised.
> 
> I think this whole argument -- who's "smarter," as _an enormous group_ -- is stupid. And I don't lay that at AllahPundit's feet nor at Maet's; it is the left which endlessly propagates their, um, propaganda that "We're smarter and we love science." Surveys such as this one are discussed on the right not to establish the contrary proposition ("no, _we're_ smarter, and _we_ love science") but to undermine the left's original claim.


----------



## groovetube

Bahhhh ha ha ha ha ha

Exxon CEO Joins Suit Citing Fracking Concerns - WSJ.com


----------



## Macfury

Did you read the article?



groovetube said:


> Bahhhh ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> Exxon CEO Joins Suit Citing Fracking Concerns - WSJ.com


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Did you read the article?


No, of course he didn't, unless he paid to get behind the paywall the link he supplied uses. He obviously relied totally on the headline. Without details, his post qualifies as another CFP as well as a fail.

If one takes the time to do the research, and I did, the CEO is not against fracking at all.



> Though Tillerson’s name is on the lawsuit, a lawyer representing him said his concern is about the devaluation of his property, not fracking specifically.


Exxon CEO Comes Out Against Fracking Project Because It Will Affect His Property Values

It would seem the joke is on the OP.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Did you read the article?


yes that's what you always say macfury. It's as predictable as the sun rise! :clap:

The article was not behind any paywall.

And the irony, is lost on both of you. Part of the backlash on fracking has also been about having near people's properties, not only about the problems people are saying it causes (and what researchers are finding...) try following the news a little more.

I found it hilarious, that this fellow suddenly got all NIMBY himself when it's his property in question!

I'm not surprised you guys don't want to see this irony.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> The article was not behind any paywall.


Oh no? Another fib?


----------



## groovetube

You're implying I have lied SINC? That's rather uncivil.

When I got the link from twitter, it was not behind the paywall. Perhaps it available for a period, I don't know.

But while you guys quibble over this nonsense, I did find the irony quite amusing!

Now back to the regularly scheduled personal attacks...


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> No, of course he didn't, unless he paid to get behind the paywall the link he supplied uses. He obviously relied totally on the headline. Without details, his post qualifies as another CFP as well as a fail.


It's not even specifically lowering of property values. It's the zoning on the water tower. Plenty of other fracking going on in the area.

Again, this typical post fail is what comes of posting headlines without actually reading the article.


----------



## groovetube

Does it matter macfury? You;re just spinning the wheels here because the irony here cuts a little. Not that you'll ever admit to this.

Oh and SINC, I'd suggest that before you break the civility here and go saying I fibbed, no paywall here:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube, you see irony behind every tree. You just don't understand the definition of it. The world must certainly be a strange and interesting place for you.


----------



## groovetube

I know macfury. I know 

It's difficult to the irony, particularly after you've been so dismissive about people not wanting tracking near them, for a variety of reasons. The CEO of Exxon should be exempt form this all. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I know macfury. I know
> 
> It's difficult to the irony, particularly after you've been so dismissive about people not wanting tracking near them, for a variety of reasons. The CEO of Exxon should be exempt form this all. :lmao:


I don't believe I've ever said anything about tracking.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Does it matter macfury? You;re just spinning the wheels here because the irony here cuts a little. Not that you'll ever admit to this.
> 
> Oh and SINC, I'd suggest that before you break the civility here and go saying I fibbed, no paywall here:


I supplied proof of a paywall on the link at my end and that has not changed. The screenshot you provided does not change it at my end. It IS a paywall, so you must be a subscriber.


----------



## groovetube

No, I am NOT a subscriber.

Google Exxon CEO fracking , and you will get the full article. My screenshot is from the page I got. Don't assume someone is lying before finding out SINC, I thought we were above that now.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Don't assume someone is lying before finding out SINC, I thought we were above that now.


You've been caught in some major whoppers, so naturally SINC is suspicious. What's so embarrassing about being a subscriber to _WSJ_?


----------



## groovetube

Really, what whoppers macfury? as I told you, I am not a subscriber. If I was, of course Id say so. As you said, nothing embarrassing about that!

You're just after a useless fight again. So sorry the link upset you enough to go down there.

Enjoy the sewer with someone else today! I'm sure it'll be like catnip.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> I supplied proof of a paywall on the link at my end and that has not changed. The screenshot you provided does not change it at my end. It IS a paywall, so you must be a subscriber.


SINC, I have frequently experienced access to paywall-protected articles that are linked from Google and other indexing services... and have gone back to the same article hours or days later to find it protected. What GT says is entirely plausible... and I don't understand the desire of folks in here to make this an issue rather than address the matter at hand.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Really, what whoppers macfury?


Serious?

Do you really want to go there again?

'Cause I got no truck dragging your sorry butt through that septic tank one more time.

That's the problem with establishing a reputation for yourself, groove. From that moment on, everything you say or post comes under question. I told you that months ago. 

Chicken, roost...


----------



## groovetube

I don't either. (Other than macfury stoking some others obviously...) I actually provided what I googled so anyone can give it a try, it shows up in the first few results.

Exxon CEO fracking 

Should do the trick. At least it does for me.

And I have too gotten stuff behind paywalls frequently through google.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> SINC, I have frequently experienced access to paywall-protected articles that are linked from Google and other indexing services... and have gone back to the same article hours or days later to find it protected. What GT says is entirely plausible... and I don't understand the desire of folks in here to make this an issue rather than address the matter at hand.


Nobody is doubting that it's possible. I would have believed you straight off.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Nobody is doubting that it's possible. I would have believed you straight off.


As would I, along with (as of this moment) 42,330 out of 42331 other members.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> SINC, I have frequently experienced access to paywall-protected articles that are linked from Google and other indexing services... and have gone back to the same article hours or days later to find it protected. What GT says is entirely plausible... and I don't understand the desire of folks in here to make this an issue rather than address the matter at hand.


If that had been me CM, I would have said sorry and gone back and corrected the link, especially if it went bad as you say being possible. That's what any reasonable person would do to avoid the paywall question. He didn't, so I called him. Simple as that. You cannot simply let things hang, but continue to argue it wasn't paid. It is typical stubborn behaviour and it continues. The link supplied is behind a firewall. When that happened is not my problem and is easily fixed by the OP. Suggesting others Google it because he won't change it speaks volumes about the OP.


----------



## i-rui

SINC said:


> If that had been me CM, I would have said sorry and gone back and corrected the link, especially if it went bad as you say being possible. That's what any reasonable person would do to avoid the paywall question. He didn't, so I called him. Simple as that. You cannot simply let things hang, but continue to argue it wasn't paid. It is typical stubborn behaviour and it continues. The link supplied is behind a firewall. When that happened is not my problem and is easily fixed by the OP. Suggesting others Google it because he won't change it speaks volumes about the OP.


Exxon CEO Joins Suit Citing Fracking Concerns - WSJ.com

the above url is copied from a google search link. if i click on the link from google there is no paywall, however the very same link pasted above will sit behind a paywall if someone tries to connect from this post.

the problem is the WSJ is directing non-google links behind the paywall. there is no way to "fix" it.



CubaMark said:


> What GT says is entirely plausible... and I don't understand the desire of folks in here to make this an issue rather than address the matter at hand.


It's fairly easy to understand. a small group of individuals are picking on a certain member and everything he posts. To everyone but this small group it's getting really tiresome, But they seem to be enjoying themselves.


----------



## SINC

i-rui said:


> Exxon CEO Joins Suit Citing Fracking Concerns - WSJ.com
> 
> the above url is copied from a google search link. if i click on the link from google there is no paywall, however the very same link pasted above will sit behind a paywall if someone tries to connect from this post.
> 
> the problem is the WSJ is directing non-google links behind the paywall. there is no way to "fix" it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's fairly easy to understand. a small group of individuals are picking on a certain member and everything he posts. To everyone but this small group it's getting really tiresome, But they seem to be enjoying themselves.


Since your link also produced a paywall, let me show you how easy it is to correct. Again:

Exxon CEO Comes Out Against Fracking Project Because It Will Affect His Property Values | ThinkProgress

Like I said the unwillingness to make a simple correction speaks volumes. 

So much for your new link and theory which produces this:


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> Exxon CEO Joins Suit Citing Fracking Concerns - WSJ.com
> 
> the above url is copied from a google search link. if i click on the link from google there is no paywall, however the very same link pasted above will sit behind a paywall if someone tries to connect from this post. I see you provided a think progress link, I was jumped all over for linking to them a few times. That's why I didn't post it.
> 
> the problem is the WSJ is directing non-google links behind the paywall. there is no way to "fix" it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's fairly easy to understand. a small group of individuals are picking on a certain member and everything he posts. To everyone but this small group it's getting really tiresome, But they seem to be enjoying themselves.


Thanks. It's the pettiness that's particularly tiresome. It isn't the post per se, it's their blind hatred of me. That's not my problem.

SINC I'm a little disappointed that you couldn't be a little more civil, particularly over such a small thing, as I said, I thought we got past that. I'm sorry the link trouble caused all this, I googled it to find something else besides someone's blog since that causes all manner of uproar, I had no idea it would produce a paywall for someone when it was clicked. The info is easily found, I gave what I googled to get the non paywall version google provides, I thought it was sufficient. 

It's amazing just how such a small thing, can cause a near international incident.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Thanks. It's the pettiness that's particularly tiresome. It isn't the post per se, it's their blind hatred of me. That's not my problem.
> 
> SINC I'm a little disappointed that you couldn't be a little more civil, particularly over such a small thing, as I said, I thought we got past that. I'm sorry the link trouble caused all this, I googled it to find something else besides someone's blog since that causes all manner of uproar, I had no idea it would produce a paywall for someone when it was clicked. The info is easily found, I gave what I googled to get the non paywall version google provides, I thought it was sufficient.
> 
> It's amazing just how such a small thing, can cause a near international incident.


Had you simply repaired the link, you would not have brought this upon yourself. Again. I am disappointed too that you can never admit even the very simplest of errors and fix it. That says it all.


----------



## groovetube

Seriously SINC? This nonsense and being called a fibber is my fault? All over this???

Sorry I'm a little disappointed about this. I didn't think my link problem and subsequent failure to fix it was such a huge crime here.

Wow. Well I'm done with this childishness for tonight.


----------



## SINC

Yep, true to form, never accept responsibility, back off and go home.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Thanks. It's the pettiness that's particularly tiresome. It isn't the post per se, it's their blind hatred of me.


Nobody hates you, gt. It really is just what you post.


----------



## i-rui

SINC said:


> Since your link also produced a paywall, let me show you how easy it is to correct. Again:
> 
> Exxon CEO Comes Out Against Fracking Project Because It Will Affect His Property Values | ThinkProgress


what? the entire point was that the link i produced was also behind a paywall. you can not link to the WSJ without it being behind a paywall, while a link from google will not be. *That is the point*.

and you did not "correct" anything, you replaced it with a different link. perhaps groovetube wanted to link the WSJ link for a reason.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Yep, true to form, never accept responsibility, back off and go home.


Oh sinc. I'm sorry my link didn't work and caused confusion. I didn't intend for that to happen.

But I also didn't think I should be accused of fibbing, and all this crap.

Seriously.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Nobody hates you, gt. It really is just what you post.


Well not everyone likes your posts macfury, it's just what happens on a forum I guess.



i-rui said:


> what? the entire point was that the link i produced was also behind a paywall. you can not link to the WSJ without it being behind a paywall, while a link from google will not be. *That is the point*.
> 
> and you did not "correct" anything, you replaced it with a different link. perhaps groovetube wanted to link the WSJ link for a reason.


Yes. I saw the think progress link but I remember what happens when I link to them...


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Well not everyone likes your posts macfury, it's just what happens on a forum I guess.


Absolutely.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Oh sinc. I'm sorry my link didn't work and caused confusion. I didn't intend for that to happen.
> 
> But I also didn't think I should be accused of fibbing, and all this crap.
> 
> Seriously.


So then, explain why you didn't simply edit your post to correct it before it led to all this? That is the real issue here, no matter who tries to defend you, including yourself. You could have avoided it all with a 'whoops, corrected' post.


----------



## groovetube

Because obviously, as CM explained as well, I couldn't correct the link, you have to go through google to get. When I figured it out, I posted how I got it very easily.

I didn't expect to be called a fibber and the rest if it.

Jesus this place is a rats nest sometimes. All over a link I didn't realize would paywall and cause all this crap! Holy crap!


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Because obviously, as CM explained as well, I couldn't correct the link, you have to go through google to get. When I figured it out, I posted how I got it very easily.
> 
> I didn't expect to be called a fibber and the rest if it.
> 
> Jesus this place is a rats nest sometimes. All over a link I didn't realize would paywall and cause all this crap! Holy crap!


So, I could post an alternate link with ease. Why could you not do the same, change the link and not be a . . . well, you know.


----------



## Macfury

Let's face it, groovetube is a terrible linker. There, I've said it!!


----------



## FeXL

i-rui said:


> It's fairly easy to understand. a small group of individuals are picking on a certain member and everything he posts. To everyone but this small group it's getting really tiresome, But they seem to be enjoying themselves.


First, not even close. Groove has nearly 3 times the posts I have. If I picked on everything he posted, I'd have the same number of posts. I criticize when he makes content free posts (CFP), I criticize when he's hypocritical (as in asking for some sort of proof when he never offers any himself), I criticize when he suggests or outright accuses someone else of lying (he's hardly the person to be judging anyone else on that), I criticize when he plays the victim card and I criticize when he posts something downright stupid (like his last little foray into the GHG thread with his Reddit buddy, MacDoc).

Second, instead of simply dealing with the link as has been suggested, he compounded the whole issue. In addition, the prescient among us hit the "Preview Post" button & confirm our links are working prior to clicking the "Submit Reply" button.

Third, he needs no assistance in the "VICTIM" department.

Fourth, as the only proven liar on these boards, out of over 42,000 members, yeah, everything he posts is immediately suspect. He needs to play it cleaner & better than anyone else on these boards. He's not. Long ago groove's pride compelled him to avoid the painful but honourable choice and he made his bed. Now he gets to lie down in it.

Fifth, it's not just groovetube. There isn't a person on these boards that I won't apply the selfsame criticisms in my "First" to...


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Let's face it, groovetube is a terrible linker. There, I've said it!!


ha ha. Oh macfury. I think you dislike my links is all really 

What I find funny, is how you and since once jumped all over me when I posted something from think progress, as they're know to be pretty left leaning, I do read them, they're one of the many I follow on twitter. But SINC "fixed" it by posting... a think progress" link? 

wow. When I googled it to find a more reputable source, I did see the think progress, and thought better of it. 

So sorry everyone for the crime I've committed, didn't realize it would cause people to, you know, crap their pants, start calling me names, it seems it takes very little to get some people to do that. And even when it's clear they were wrong, they weren't man enough to admit it. Even though in the spirit of civility with SINC, I had apologized to him recently for something I had gotten wrong.

I had thought that was the way things were, looks like I was right. It's too bad SINC, that you wanted to make such a crime out me not fixing a link to your satisfaction, and then said I was a... "you know". Really.

Well I won't take your bait for a fight, you can continue the name calling, but I will not go there. The same couple always tries for a holy war. Well enjoy it.


----------



## SINC

Have you fixed the link yet?

Nope, so you remain a well, you know.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> And even when it's clear they were wrong, they weren't man enough to admit it.


Once again, the irony.

You are hardly the person to be pointing this character flaw out in anyone, save yourself.



groovetube said:


> The same couple always tries for a holy war.


VICTIM! The baddies are here picking on me! AGAIN! For the love of groovetube, PLEASE, would someone appear out of the woodwork & SUPPORT ME! HEEEEELP!

Jeezuz...

Do you even know what a "holy war" is? If this was truly a "holy war", you wouldn't even be here discussing it. Your lefty rhetoric & ignorance is astounding...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> VICTIM! The baddies are here picking on me! AGAIN! For the love of groovetube, PLEASE, would someone appear out of the woodwork & SUPPORT ME! HEEEEELP!


Hey, sometimes i-rui show up to help, but it's tough for supporters to spare time from that thriving metropolis of MacMagic!


----------



## groovetube

A $10.10 Minimum Wage Would Make A DVD At Walmart Cost One Cent More | ThinkProgress

Glad to know think progress is an acceptable source, I'll post plenty of it.

Interesting about the minimum wage. But it's better to allow companies to pay workers crap so they have to rely on more social services. Oh but we need to cut that too...

And this is a party about the working Americans? HA.


----------



## FeXL

You rag on and on and on about wages at Wal-Mart yet, when their excellent healthcare program is discussed on this thread, you're strangely silent.

Why is that, groove?


----------



## Macfury

You simply have a weak grasp of the economic implications of such things. It might add a penny to the price of a CD, but this is not the only effect:

U.S. minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs, CBO says - Business - CBC News

So yes, it would concentrate more money in the earnings of fewer workers. And since retailers would be forced to pay $10.10 an hour, they would tighten up job entry requirements--why pay $10.10 for unskilled workers?

The rest of the analysis is an embarrassment. Paying people more so they can buy Wal-Mart goods? Why would I give someone a dollar so they could buy a dollar's worth of my own goods, on which I might make 8 cents if I'm lucky? By that logic, I could just give money away at the front door, so people would buy my products.

You're so heavily soaked in leftist rhetoric, that Think Progress is starting to look reasonable to you.



groovetube said:


> A $10.10 Minimum Wage Would Make A DVD At Walmart Cost One Cent More | ThinkProgress
> 
> Glad to know think progress is an acceptable source, I'll post plenty of it.
> 
> Interesting about the minimum wage. But it's better to allow companies to pay workers crap so they have to rely on more social services. Oh but we need to cut that too...
> 
> And this is a party about the working Americans? HA.


----------



## Macfury

Because there are no links to it at Think Progress.



FeXL said:


> You rag on and on and on about wages at Wal-Mart yet, when their excellent healthcare program is discussed on this thread, you're strangely silent.
> 
> Why is that, groove?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> You simply have a weak grasp of the economic implications of such things. It might add a penny to the price of a CD, but this is not the only effect:
> 
> U.S. minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs, CBO says - Business - CBC News
> 
> So yes, it would concentrate more money in the earnings of fewer workers. And since retailers would be forced to pay $10.10 an hour, they would tighten up job entry requirements--why pay $10.10 for unskilled workers?


Do you really think there aren't lots of unemployed out there that'll take the job? Really??

You have no proof of this whatsoever in any case. 



Macfury said:


> The rest of the analysis is an embarrassment. Paying people more so they can buy Wal-Mart goods? Why would I give someone a dollar so they could buy a dollar's worth of my own goods, on which I might make 8 cents if I'm lucky? By that logic, I could just give money away at the front door, so people would buy my products.
> 
> You're so heavily soaked in leftist rhetoric, that Think Progress is starting to look reasonable to you.


You can't see the forest through the trees macfury. If you're so intent that the government shouldn't be giving handouts, and so many workers are so poorly paid they still rely on this, then the solution, is to try and have less exploitation of workers.

It isn't as if these companies can't afford it. Speaking of, 'weak analysis'...

The right likes to make such a show of stopping government handouts. Yet they continue to support policy, that ensures there are more and more people who need them.

And the fact that right wingers don't understand that macfury, I'd say is embarrassing given your proud libertarian soapbox. However, the nicer way to say it is, we really don't agree.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> However, the nicer way to say it is, we really don't agree.


The honest way to say it is that one side of this argument is supported by facts while the other side is supported by...nothing. Guess which side you're on...


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Do you really think there aren't lots of unemployed out there that'll take the job? Really??


Of course there are a lot of people who would take the job. But the unskilled who would be hired at $7.25 will not be hired at $10.10. If forced to pay that wage, Wal-Mart would hire more skilled workers.



groovetube said:


> You can't see the forest through the trees macfury. If you're so intent that the government shouldn't be giving handouts, and so many workers are so poorly paid they still rely on this, then the solution, is to try and have less exploitation of workers.


Why don't we triple their wages then? That will make the poor rich!



groovetube said:


> It isn't as if these companies can't afford it. Speaking of, 'weak analysis'...


So government should simply take people's money and give it to someone else, because the government deems "they can afford it?" Well thought out.



groovetube said:


> The right likes to make such a show of stopping government handouts. Yet they continue to support policy, that ensures there are more and more people who need them.


Who makes the show and what handouts have they stopped?



groovetube said:


> However, the nicer way to say it is, we really don't agree.


No. You're just wrong.



groovetube said:


> You have no proof of this whatsoever in any case.


No. Just history and logic. You're the one without proof.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Of course there are a lot of people who would take the job. But the unskilled who would be hired at $7.25 will not be hired at $10.10. If forced to pay that wage, Wal-Mart would hire more skilled workers.


You're just spitballing. You have no idea about this do you? Boy 3 bucks an hour would require SOOOO much more skill!!!




Macfury said:


> Why don't we triple their wages then? That will make the poor rich!


typical response. Exaggerate to make it a ridiculous thing. No one, has suggested tripling, or even doubling anything.




Macfury said:


> So government should simply take people's money and give it to someone else, because the government deems "they can afford it?" Well thought out.


They're already doing that. It's been shown that paying such low wages, is a way for companies to keep more of their money, while the middle class pays taxes to cover the social safety net to make up the shortfall. Stupid, stupid, stupid. All these government people are doing, is protecting their buddies executive bonuses and play money. The policies you support, merely creates more demand for handouts. Not the other way around.




Macfury said:


> Who makes the show and what handouts have they stopped?
> 
> No. You're just wrong.


Simply saying that doesn't make it so Macfury.



Macfury said:


> No. Just history and logic. You're the one without proof.


I see estimates, and projections about the huge catastrophe that raising the minimum wage will cause. But I see zero proof.


----------



## Macfury

Your questions indicate that you don't grasp the concept, so I will let it drop now.


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> The honest way to say it is that one side of this argument is supported by facts while the other side is supported by...nothing. Guess which side you're on...


He doesn't know that by his constant claim to be right. And you can rest assured that will never change. He is always right, never wrong, has no proof of anything, never apologizes and defends his right to be so to the death.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Your questions indicate that you don't grasp the concept, so I will let it drop now.


Well that was quite the comeback Macfury, disappointing. A bunch of assumptions, no facts (only estimates and theories...) and then a pronouncement I don't understand anything.

R-i-i-iight. :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> He doesn't know that by his constant claim to be right. And you can rest assured that will never change. He is always right, never wrong, has no proof of anything, never apologizes and defends his right to be so to the death.


Actually I did apologize to you recently SINC, but there you are, calling me a fibber and when it comes to light it was not true I had made an honest mistake in my link, did you apologize?

No! So look in the mirror.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Have you fixed the link yet?
> 
> Nope, so you remain a well, you know.


^^ and that? No, I don't know what SINC. What?

All that over a mistake on a link. That's real class SINC.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> You simply have a weak grasp of the economic implications of such things. It might add a penny to the price of a CD, but this is not the only effect:
> 
> U.S. minimum wage hike could cost 500,000 jobs, CBO says - Business - CBC News


if you're going to link to the CBO report it's important to add their other findings :



> A $10.10 minimum wage would bring 900,000 people above the poverty threshold of $24,100 a year for a family of four.





> Altogether, 16.5 million workers would see their earnings rise with a $10.10 wage


so some jobs may be lost, but nearly twice as many will be lifted from poverty, and 33 times as many will see increased earnings.

there is no panacea. every policy will have trade offs. those seem to be a net positive.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Actually I did apologize to you recently SINC, but there you are, calling me a fibber and when it comes to light it was not true I had made an honest mistake in my link, did you apologize?
> 
> No! So look in the mirror.


You responded it did not have a paywall. That was untrue. Fact.

You refuse to change the link to make it right. Fact.

That's a fib and I stand by it as an apt description.

Me? I would have done a whoops, changed the link folks, sorry. You? Never. You are not capable of such an action and you continue to demonstrate it time after time.

Now run over to the other place and swear at me like you and all grown men of your kind always do.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> if you're going to link to the CBO report it's important to add their other findings :
> 
> so some jobs may be lost, but nearly twice as many will be lifted from poverty, and 33 times as many will see increased earnings.
> 
> there is no panacea. every policy will have trade offs. those seem to be a net positive.


That's simple math. If you take the money from people who lose their job and give it to people who are on the threshold of the government-set "poverty level," they'll be carried over the imaginary line. 

That isn't magic, it's simply taking wages from people who are now unemployed and giving them to someone else. I don't see that as a net positive.

Just think-by eliminating your employment and giving your wages to others, you could raise three people from poverty! High five!!!


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> You responded it did not have a paywall. That was untrue. Fact.
> 
> You refuse to change the link to make it right. Fact.
> 
> That's a fib and I stand by it as an apt description.
> 
> Me? I would have done a whoops, changed the link folks, sorry. You? Never. You are not capable of such an action and you continue to demonstrate it time after time.
> 
> Now run over to the other place and swear at me like you and all grown men of your kind always do.


It didn't have a paywall for me. There was no reason for me to think it was behind a paywall. Your accusation came out of nowhere, and then you accused me (or was it macfiury) of being a subscriber or something.

The fact is SINC, you called me a fibber, and then a "you know what", when all it was, was a mistaken belief that it was a public link as I had no trouble accessing it.

I responded to your name calling and accusations, as they just weren't necessary. You started right in on me right in the first post and the in the second when I said the article wasn't behind a paywall (which, it wasn't for me...) you immediately called me a fibber without hesitatiing.

If you want some civility, then show some back SINC. I've agreed to be civil towards you, but it doesn't seem to work both ways for you it seems. This incredible hissy fit and name calling over a mistake on a link, is just epic.

No wonder people don't like participating here, and I can guarantee it isn't because I made a simple mistake on a link! :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Drop it already. Take it to the Pub at Mac Magic.



groovetube said:


> It didn't have a paywall for me. There was no reason for me to think it was behind a paywall. Your accusation came out of nowhere, and then you accused me (or was it macfiury) of being a subscriber or something.
> 
> The fact is SINC, you called me a fibber, and then a "you know what", when all it was, was a mistaken belief that it was a public link as I had no trouble accessing it.
> 
> I responded to your name calling and accusations, as they just weren't necessary. You started right in on me right in the first post and the in the second when I said the article wasn't behind a paywall (which, it wasn't for me...) you immediately called me a fibber without hesitatiing.
> 
> If you want some civility, then show some back SINC. This incredible hissy fit and name calling over a mistake on a link, is just epic.
> 
> No wonder people don't like participating here, and I can guarantee it isn't because I made a simple mistake on a link! :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Drop it already. Take it to the Pub at Mac Magic.


So someone screams stamps his feet calling me names and you're telling ME to drop it?

Bahh ha ha ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

You've taken the bait and perfectly made FeXL's point. You asked him to do exactly that after you accused him of all manner of things. 



groovetube said:


> So someone screams stamps his feet calling me names and you're telling ME to drop it?
> 
> Bahh ha ha ha ha.


----------



## BigDL

Some are too dangerous too deal with, out to lunch, sans sandwich, so to speak, wouldn't you say?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> You've taken the bait and perfectly made FeXL's point. You asked him to do exactly that after you accused him of all manner of things.


I don't interact with that member and nor will I ever in the future, permanently, so your post os nonsense. \SINC and I decided to be civil, and it worked relatively well up until this point. There's a difference between hotly disagreeing, and name calling. I've given up on the former, despite some who continue it. It's rich that those who to this day holler and name call expect an apology. Rut ro? I don't apologize to those who freely called me all sorts of things, and ripped into my personal life. Never gonna happen. And rightfully so.



BigDL said:


> Some are too dangerous too deal with, out to lunch, sans sandwich, so to speak, wouldn't you say?


Well obviously, even attempting at being civil isn't a two way street with some, so you're right. They'll never change, and will always blame it on me. This time around, my only crime, apparently, was that I failed to fix a link. It was so great, so malicious I guess, that it warranted pages of attacks, and name calling.

I think it's clear where the problem is :lmao:


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> That's simple math. If you take the money from people who lose their job and give it to people who are on the threshold of the government-set "poverty level," they'll be carried over the imaginary line.
> 
> That isn't magic, it's simply taking wages from people who are now unemployed and giving them to someone else. I don't see that as a net positive.
> 
> Just think-by eliminating your employment and giving your wages to others, you could raise three people from poverty! High five!!!


You've made all kinds of assumptions here with nothing to back it up Macfury. Just because someone 'predicts' there would be job losses doesn't mean it will happen. Is there some concrete evidence somewhere where minimum wage was increased that led to catastrophic job losses? Anything?

"simple math" isn't exactly... factual.


----------



## Macfury

BigDL said:


> Some are too dangerous too deal with, out to lunch, sans sandwich, so to speak, wouldn't you say?


Here's the groovetube cavalry--the pumpkin from New Brunswick just rode in on a tired old horse.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Here's the groovetube cavalry--the pumpkin from New Brunswick just rode in on a tired old horse.


I think it's cute how you keep acting like it's one person each time. First CM, then i-rui, the DL...

They're all "groovetube cavalry"? :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> You've made all kinds of assumptions here with nothing to back it up Macfury. Just because someone 'predicts' there would be job losses doesn't mean it will happen. Is there some concrete evidence somewhere where minimum wage was increased that led to catastrophic job losses? Anything?
> 
> "simple math" isn't exactly... factual.


You may have some beer buddies who will put up with this sort of gabbling, but it doesn't fly here.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> You may have some beer buddies who will put up with this sort of gabbling, but it doesn't fly here.


see that's the only response you have macfury when you don't have anything. That wave of the hand, announcing it's, er, nonsense, or it doesn't fly, or whatever phrase is handy.

You made all kinds of predictions and assumptions, but I don't see any hard facts.

I'm certainly willing to entertain some.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I think it's cute how you keep acting like it's one person each time. First CM, then i-rui, the DL...
> 
> They're all "groovetube cavalry"? :lmao:


No, even CM rarely helps you. I would say the cavalry is i-rui and BigDL.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> If you want some civility, then show some back SINC. I've agreed to be civil towards you, but it doesn't seem to work both ways for you it seems. This incredible hissy fit and name calling over a mistake on a link, is just epic.


Let me know when you have the cajones to do the right thing and fix the link, it's still behind a paywall. Until then, try and live with yourself. It must be embarrassing for you.


----------



## i-rui

Macfury said:


> That's simple math.


yes, of course. that in essence is what the CBO does, look at the numbers objectively and try to access the results of policy in a non-partisan way.



Macfury said:


> Just think-by eliminating your employment and giving your wages to others, you could raise three people from poverty! High five!!!


and conversely the government could slash the minimum wage in half and create MILLIONS of crappy jobs and thrust TENS of MILLIONS more into poverty!!

A minimum wage policy is always about finding that balance of where the most positive net good can be achieved. You may argue about where that line is, and that's fine, but a policy that sees 16.5 million income raised, while lifting 900,000 over the poverty line for a trade off of 500,000 jobs seems quite reasonable to me. 

The alternative of no minimum wage seems far more dangerous.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Let me know when you have the cajones to do the right thing and fix the link, it's still behind a paywall. Until then, try and live with yourself. It must be embarrassing for you.


At this point, I don't care SINC. I think people got it, the topic was buried under a mountain of name calling, and hissy fits, and it no longer matters.

I'm sorry that it has offended your very core that I didn't fix the link, but there's nothing I can do about it. After the name calling and your jabs, I'm not about to do a damn thing.

Sorry.

If you were at least civil about it sans name calling perhaps I would have been more than happy to.


----------



## SINC

Everyone on the board knows you don't care gt, you continue to prove that time after time for years now. Always exaggerating. There was no 'mountain of name calling' nor was there a 'hissy fit'. I didn't even call you a name, I just pointed out you told a fib after I pointed out that your link was behind a paywall and you claimed it wasn't. 

Even i-rui tried to post the same link with an explanation and with the same result, but you chose to ignore that as well. 

Nothing offended me in any way, never mind to 'my core' (more exaggeration) except for your stubborn 'I am never wrong' attitude here. So go ahead an not 'do a damn thing' about it. That has no reflection on me. In fact, it demonstrates clearly all that is wrong with you and your attitude here. And finally only you know, what 'you know what' means. I did not define it purposely to see what you might make of it. Apparently your interpretation of what that means regarding yourself makes that an issue for you as well.


----------



## groovetube

Well SINC the ensuing pages after you accused me of fibbing, (never backed down even after it was clear you were wrong...) and then you went on with saying I was a "you know what". 

Well no SINC, I don't know what. Why don't you enlighten us...


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> A minimum wage policy is always about finding that balance of where the most positive net good can be achieved. You may argue about where that line is, and that's fine, but a policy that sees 16.5 million income raised while lifting 900,000 over the poverty line for a trade off of 500,000 jobs seems quite reasonable to me.
> 
> The alternative of no minimum wage seems far more dangerous.


We'll just have to disagree. The trade-off looks terrible to me. If 16.5 million people have their wages goosed by 40% it will cost businesses $100 billion in wages per year. For that, you move 900,000 people out of poverty?

Look at it this way--if you're earning the current minimum wage, you're bringing in $15,000. The poverty line for a family of four is $24,000. Most people live in two-income households, so they're not living below the poverty line, even if they both make the minimum wage.

So you're spending $100,000 per household per year to lift them to an income level of $24,000 from their current income, while throwing 500,000 into abject poverty.


----------



## groovetube

Well this is interesting:

Doctors Call On President Obama For More Regulation On Fracking | ThinkProgress



> A report from Pennsylvania last year documented the range of health problems affecting residents living near natural gas operations — *however, in Pennsylvania, a gag order prevents doctors from telling their patients what chemicals from fracking solutions might be the cause of their illnesses.*


Well gee. Why would that be???



> The letter also noted the dangers of fracking wastewater, which has spilled and leached into groundwater in the past. An October report found that fracking wells in the U.S. generated 280 billion gallons of toxic wastewater in 2012, some of it radioactive. This wastewater is often stored in deep wells, but over time these wells can fail and can end up contaminating water resources —* in New Mexico alone, chemicals from oil and gas pits have contaminated water sources at least 421 times, according to the October report*.


yow.



> On Thursday, Environment America delivered a letter with more than 1,000 signatures from health care professionals that asked Obama to declare certain areas in the U.S. off-limits to fracking and to ensure that fracking is no longer exempt from environmental laws like the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act.


Fracking is exempt from the clean water act and the clean air act????


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Well SINC the ensuing pages after you accused me of fibbing, (never backed down even after it was clear you were wrong...) and then you went on with saying I was a "you know what".
> 
> Well no SINC, I don't know what. Why don't you enlighten us...


Perhaps you missed my last post. It means what YOU think it means. And if you don't like that definition, blame yourself.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Perhaps you missed my last post. It means what YOU think it means.


Well I don't know SINC. It seems to me something derogatory, but perhaps you can let us know what it was.

You were so offended that you had to call me a fibber, and a "you know what", and keep demanding I fix a link that, well at this point I doubt anyone cares about any longer. But it seems to really upset you. I apologized that my link caused some confusion, and I'm not going to engage in the name calling. 

It's anyone's guess why you making such demands, and felt the need to call me names.


----------



## SINC

Yeah, I get it. You're right again. Still. Whenever. Always . . .


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Well this is interesting:
> 
> Doctors Call On President Obama For More Regulation On Fracking | ThinkProgress


Show us the gag order, then we can begin the discussion. What does the gag order say?


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Yeah, I get it. You're right again. Still. Whenever. Always . . .


Wel, I'll remember that the next time you point out that I assumed something about your post incorrectly, and want a recognition of that.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Wel, I'll remember that the next time you point I assumed something about your post incorrectly, and want a recognition of that.


WTH does that even mean? Do you actually try to read what you post? The grammar is astounding. That makes no sense at all, it is completely incoherent. But then again, in your view it is right, so forget it.


----------



## groovetube

edited. Though I think you figured out what I meant. 

Man, you get cranky when someone makes a mistake on a post!!!


----------



## SINC

Not cranky, just pointing out that you continue to make mistake after mistake, exaggeration after exaggeration and rarely taking responsibility for anything you post. That is your legacy here.


----------



## groovetube

You know others have pointed out my mistakes and it's generally in a good natured kind of way. It's no big deal, it's just a forum I don't know why it's so serious.

You on the other hand, just become incensed if I make a mistake. It's not hard to do, typing most of my posts on an iPhone, I make a whole lot of mistakes unfortunately. Even if I type on a full keyboard! I'm terrible at it.

There's plenty more to be worried about that's far more important, and it's not good for anyone's health to get worked up about such minor things like my mistyping or whatever.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> You know others have pointed out my mistakes and it's generally in a good natured kind of way. It's no big deal, it's just a forum I don't know why it's so serious.
> 
> *You on the other hand, just become incensed if I make a mistake.* It's not hard to do, typing most of my posts on an iPhone, I make a whole lot of mistakes unfortunately. Even if I type on a full keyboard! I'm terrible at it.
> 
> There's plenty more to be worried about that's far more important, and it's not good for anyone's health to get worked up about such minor things like my mistyping or whatever.


See, there you go again with exaggeration. I'm not in any way incensed. Just sad that you don't get it, or ever admit mistakes, and when you do make them, either apologize or retract them to make things right. Ever. 

Night.


----------



## groovetube

your posts show it SINC. No one else is upset by it. (except for the odd snorting and farting, but who the hell cares...)

I already apologized for my link confusion, already said I'm terrible at writing, what more would you like?

You on the other hand, flew off the handle calling me fibber, and a 'you know what', and continue getting frustrated at my apparent mistakes. No admission perhaps you were wrong that I fibbed, nothing. Yet you demand others retract or admit when they're wrong! :lmao:

Sorry SINC, you keep accusing me of crap that just ain't so. It's you that won't admit to anything. I already did! And I have no problem doing so.


----------



## eMacMan

My God GT and Sinc. What on earth has any of this to do with American Politics.

I mean c'mon. You can blindfold yourselves, throw a brick anywhere Congress or the Senate and be assured of hitting a worthy target. Ditto the White house. 

And you two waste time sniping at each other?

The sad truth is that between the White house and Congress the only un-shredded part of the Bill of Rights is the Second Amendment. The founding fathers truly believed that the most serious threat to America was not some external enemy, but evil within. Madison's second amendment was meant to insure that whoever was in power would have a healthy fear of those whom were governed. Sadly that is no longer true, so even the Second is now largely ornamental.


----------



## groovetube

well eMacman, apparently, I'm a fibber, and a "you know what", because I made a mistake on a link. Yes you read that right, a mistake on a link!!! And wouldn't you know it, I didn't fix it, to add insult to injury, because I figured after pages of stupidity, it wan't important anymore.

Can you just... imagine my nerve! What a total and complete arsehole I am!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

I guess it's far worse than anything any of them in congress, the senate, or even the white house has committed, because it's far, far more important! :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> The sad truth is that between the White house and Congress the only un-shredded part of the Bill of Rights is the Second Amendment. The founding fathers truly believed that the most serious threat to America was not some external enemy, but evil within. In my eyes the past 20 years have fully justified their fears.


I actually think that the first amendment stands up for what American truly represents. The second amendment deals with a "well regulated militia" at a time when there were still "minute men" ready, willing and able to defend their town/state/country. That need does not exist anymore.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> I actually think that the first amendment stands up for what American truly represents. The second amendment deals with a "well regulated militia" at a time when there were still "minute men" ready, willing and able to defend their town/state/country. That need does not exist anymore.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Perhaps, but it too is now largely ornamental. 

The same individuals who control the media, pull the strings in Congress. How many times have I seen the exact same story, word for word, broadcast through multiple outlets?

NPR finally broadcast a short 4 minute piece on FATCA. It was reasonably well done. However before that happened, one individual sent more than 600 eMails and letters over a span of two years. Many others, including myself, participated in the campaign as well, if somewhat less aggressively. I have as yet to see it make the lamestream unless it was being falsely promoted as a way to catch tax cheats.

As to Congressmen and Senators I have put out over 50 eMails. To date there have been zero replies.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> I don't interact with that member and nor will I ever in the future, permanently...


You may not have a choice in that matter, young Lochinvar...  My business trip in January fell through, but I may suddenly feel the urge to buy Macfury a cold beer some afternoon, breathe a little Tranna smog, you know?.

"That member". Hilarious!!! Hey, it's FeXL. Remember me? We're old & dear friends on this board by now. Remember, all that beer talk & everything? Misrepresenting each others words, lying to each other, calling each other nasty, unfounded names, playing the victim card, then dispensing with apologies 'cause it was all in jest in the first place. Oh, wait, that was just you, wasn't it...

Frankly, my unanswered criticisms of you on this board are very satisfying. I don't have to put up with the BS, misdirection & obfuscation that you've been feeding SINC & Macfury. I rather enjoy shredding your posts into little pieces, then watch them flutter to the floor while you scramble to respond in some oblique fashion via a response to someone else on the same thread.

I come in, I make my point clearly, I leave. My post stands there, unanswered, for all to ruminate. Especially times like now, when your personal integrity gets publicly questioned by other people because of your silly pride in the past. 

I know it's ripping your insides apart to have made the choice not to respond to me, a guy like you who needs constant affirmation from the masses, the type of person who has a response to everyone no matter how pointless and someone who "never backs down from anything". How's that working out for ya, groove? Knowing I'm the first you backed down from? Or was that all typical groovetube bluster & I'm just the most recent in a long line who called your BS for what it is?

Either way, your silence is rather heavenly for me...


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> And I have no problem doing so.


Bull****...


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Perhaps, but it too is now largely ornamental.
> 
> The same individuals who control the media, pull the strings in Congress. How many times have I seen the exact same story, word for word, broadcast through multiple outlets?
> 
> NPR finally broadcast a short 4 minute piece on FATCA. It was reasonably well done. However before that happened, one individual sent more than 600 eMails and letters over a span of two years. Many others, including myself, participated in the campaign as well, if somewhat less aggressively. I have as yet to see it make the lamestream unless it was being falsely promoted as a way to catch tax cheats.
> 
> As to Congressmen and Senators I have put out over 50 eMails. To date there have been zero replies.


Well, I still have faith in the first amendment. Still, being a Canadian now I am bound by the Canadian Charter, and do my best to maintain the rights and responsibilities that are intended for ALL Canadian citizens, as I pledged to do when I was sworn in as a new Canadian. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I still have faith in the first amendment. Still, being a Canadian now I am bound by the Canadian Charter, and do my best to maintain the rights and responsibilities that are intended for ALL Canadian citizens, as I pledged to do when I was sworn in as a new Canadian.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


As am I.

For the moment the jury seems to be out on the ALL part of that, but we shall see what happens.


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> (except for the odd snorting and farting, but who the hell cares...)


So, there's four people posting on this topic on this thread.

Making the giant assumption that you're not dissing yourself (I know, it's a stretch), and knowing full well that you don't "interact with that member", me, (forever & ever, amen), that leaves SINC & Macfury. You were responding to SINC, so does that mean that you think Macfury is snorting & farting?

Jes' trying ta sort this all out. That lefty logic is puzzlin' some days...


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> As am I.
> 
> For the moment the jury seems to be out on the ALL part of that, but we shall see what happens.


We all have the same rights and responsibilities, Bob ............... it is just that some people do not abide by these directions in the Constitution and Charter of Rights and Responsibilities. C'est la vie. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I actually think that the first amendment stands up for what American truly represents. The second amendment deals with a "well regulated militia" at a time when there were still "minute men" ready, willing and able to defend their town/state/country. That need does not exist anymore.


Isn't it lovely when you can just pick and choose which amendments really matter to you, Dr. G. You can just toss off the ones that matter to others and keep the ones you like.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Isn't it lovely when you can just pick and choose which amendments really matter to you, Dr. G. You can just toss off the ones that matter to others and keep the ones you like.


True. Had the NRA been as aggressive defending the other Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights as they were defending the second, the nation would be in far better shape today.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> True. Had the NRA been as aggressive defending the other Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights as they were defending the second, the nation would be in far better shape today.


They can't do everything on their own.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Isn't it lovely when you can just pick and choose which amendments really matter to you, Dr. G. You can just toss off the ones that matter to others and keep the ones you like.


I don't "toss off" any of the amendments, Macfury, and I never have done so. However, those who are in strong support of "the people to keep and bear Arms", forget that initial part of the second amendment -- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I do not see a "well regulated Militia" as "being necessary to the security of a free State". 

This is from the Preamble of the Libertarian Party of America

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. 

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."

So, a well armed militia on the US side of ehMacLand decides that it is "each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest". However, they leave out the "peaceful and honest" section of this statement, and focus upon the "right to engage in any activity". The militia decides to "silence" the likes of me, groovetube, mrjimmy, eMacMan, et al, for our expressed views here in ehMacLand. Then they decide that the likes of fine people like screature, Sinc, FeXL, et al, need to be silenced since too many people read and are influenced by their views. Then they come after you, since while you too are a fine person, you are a bit too logical and rational in your views, and this cannot be tolerated. 

So, there you have it. This scenario is not mine, but was brought forth by Sinclair Lewis in his book "It Can't Happen Here". Sadly, Hitler and the SS, along with Stalin, brought this notion of silencing all opposition in a brutal manner to its fullest sense of the concept of absolute control.

So, it is my opinion that freedom exists, but it is freedom with responsibility.

Paix, mon ami.

Platform | Libertarian Party


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They can't do everything on their own.


Luckily, that is what the ACLU is able to do for all Americans.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Isn't it lovely when you can just pick and choose which amendments really matter to you, Dr. G. You can just toss off the ones that matter to others and keep the ones you like.





eMacMan said:


> True. Had the NRA been as aggressive defending the other Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights as they were defending the second, the nation would be in far better shape today.





Macfury said:


> They can't do everything on their own.


So it's not OK to pick and choose your amendments unless you're the NRA?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> So it's not OK to pick and choose your amendments unless you're the NRA?


That's just ridiculous. The NRA supports the Constitution wholesale. It chooses to martial its resources where it can best make a difference.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I do not see a "well regulated Militia" as "being necessary to the security of a free State".


I do. And so does the Constitution.



Dr.G. said:


> his is from the Preamble of the Libertarian Party of America....
> 
> _Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."_


It certainly includes gun ownership.



Dr.G. said:


> The militia decides to "silence" the likes of me, groovetube, mrjimmy, eMacMan, et al, for our expressed views here in ehMacLand. Then they decide that the likes of fine people like screature, Sinc, FeXL, et al, need to be silenced since too many people read and are influenced by their views. Then they come after you, since while you too are a fine person, you are a bit too logical and rational in your views, and this cannot be tolerated.


I don't see any US militias abrogating these rights. Just the government to which you want to give a monopoly in arms.



Dr.G. said:


> This scenario is not mine, but was brought forth by Sinclair Lewis in his book "It Can't Happen Here". Sadly, Hitler and the SS, along with Stalin, brought this notion of silencing all opposition in a brutal manner to its fullest sense of the concept of absolute control.


Windrip handed out arms to his paramilitary Minute Men. Thank goodness armed citizens could still oppose them.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, in 1903, the Militia Act of 1792 was superseded by the Dick Act, which established the National Guard system, and made a distinction between the "organized" and "unorganized" Militia, reflecting the attitude that the Powers that Be didn't want most of the people to get organized as independent militias. This was upheld by the Supreme Court. Thus, independent militias, operating under their own jurisdiction and accord, free to do what they please, is not legal. 

"Windrip handed out arms to his paramilitary Minute Men. Thank goodness armed citizens could still oppose them. " I knew it!!! You are a closet liberal, dressed in Libertarian sheep's clothing. You are a secret member of the New Underground, just like Doremus Jessup. "Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win." Welcome Back To The Fight - YouTube

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, in 1903, the Militia Act of 1792 was superseded by the Dick Act, which established the National Guard system, and made a distinction between the "organized" and "unorganized" Militia, reflecting the attitude that the Powers that Be didn't want most of the people to get organized as independent militias.


It usurped states rights by demanding that state militias kowtow to the federal government. It is not a law governing gun ownership among individuals.



> _(Those) who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right (are) courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like.
> _
> 
> -- Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Windrip handed out arms to his paramilitary Minute Men. Thank goodness armed citizens could still oppose them. " I knew it!!! You are a closet liberal, dressed in Libertarian sheep's clothing. You are a secret member of the New Underground, just like Doremus Jessup. "Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win." Welcome Back To The Fight - YouTube
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


I would stand beside Doremus Jessup to oust such populists as Democrat Huey Long--upon whom that famous book was based.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would stand beside Doremus Jessup to oust such populists as Democrat Huey Long--upon whom that famous book was based.


We stand side-by-side, Macfury, comrades in arms (without guns) against the forces of totalitarian rule. Welcome to our side of liberal free-thought. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> We stand side-by-side, Macfury, comrades in arms (without guns) against the forces of totalitarian rule.


And, just in case your totalitarian opponents aren't nearly as honourable as you, I'll have your six covered...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> And, just in case your totalitarian opponents aren't nearly as honourable as you, I'll have your six covered...


Merci, mon ami. The truth shall set us free now that Macfury has come out of the closet to reveal himself a true liberal-minded progressive.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Video: ObamaCare enrollee can’t get doctor to see her



> CBS affiliates bring us two updates on the ongoing disaster of Covered California, the ObamaCare exchange in the Golden State that has begun to look a lot more like Uncovered Californians. In Sacramento, Nick Janes reports on the plight of Katherine Cadman, who eagerly signed up for an insurance policy through the state’s exchange — and then tried to use it to see a doctor. Doctors, however, are not anxious to see customers from ObamaCare plans, thanks to the lousy reimbursement rates


Tangentially related:

Senate Democrats: Why Didn’t Someone Tell Us Obamacare Would Cut Medicare?



> The National Republican Senatorial Committee points out that North Carolina senator Kay Hagan and other vulnerable Senate Democrats are now whacking the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid . . . for enacting changes required by Obamacare. Hey, Senator Hagan, if you want to blame someone, blame the foolish or dishonest lawmakers who voted for the law!
> 
> _Wait a minute, that’s you!_


Italics from the link.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. The truth shall set us free now that Macfury has come out of the closet to reveal himself a true liberal-minded progressive.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Well, I'll let you two hammer out those details...


----------



## FeXL

On the need for (and current shortage of) strong leadership.

Obama Calls Retreat



> Kiev is ablaze. Syria is a killing field. The Iranian mullahs aren’t giving up their nuclear weapons capability, and other regimes in the Middle East are preparing to acquire their own. Al Qaeda is making gains and is probably stronger than ever. China and Russia throw their weight around, while our allies shudder and squabble.
> 
> Why is this happening? Because the United States is in retreat. What is the Obama administration’s response to these events? Further retreat.


More:



> All of which leads us—in this instance at least—to cite the Lincoln of 1838 rather than the Churchill of 1938: “If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.” Suicide isn’t yet imminent. But we are on the cusp of accepting—even embracing?—a stance of shirking fearfulness and shrinking timidity. A nation of free men needs at times like this leaders who step forward to “sound forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat.” *Obama has a piccolo that only calls retreat.*


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

Peace through capitulation!


----------



## FeXL

Congratulations, Obie!


Welfare nation



> It was a long time coming, but we appear to have reached a tipping point. Terry Jeffrey picks up the news buried in Census Bureau data:
> 
> Americans who were recipients of means-tested government benefits in 2011 outnumbered year-round full-time workers, according to data released this month by the Census Bureau.
> 
> ...
> 
> There were 108,592,000 people in the United States in the fourth quarter of 2011 who were recipients of one or more means-tested government benefit programs, the Census Bureau said in data released this week. Meanwhile, according to the Census Bureau, there were 101,716,000 people who worked full-time year round in 2011. That included both private-sector and government workers.


Just to clarify:



> The 108,592,000 people who were recipients of means-tested government programs in the fourth quarter of 2011 does not include people who received benefits from non-means-tested government programs but not from means-tested ones. That would include, for example, people who received Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or non-means-tested veterans compensation, but did not receive benefits from a means-tested program such as food stamps or public housing.


More takers than producers...


----------



## Macfury

Remember that Obama called Food Stamps (now SNAP!) a great stimulus program.


----------



## FeXL

I'd say he has achieved outstanding success, then...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Peace through capitulation!


"Peace in our time." [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KveuISafPIw]Neville Chamberlain - Peace in our Time - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

For F/A-18 Super Hornet, the end may be on the horizon



> Workers at Northrop Grumman Corp.'s 1-million-square-foot El Segundo, Calif., facility have been cranking out fuselage sections for the Navy's F/A-18 fighter jet for decades.
> 
> But now, the end may be near.


Must admit to a soft spot for the F-18's. I've had opportunity to photograph multiple variants at a number of airshows, plus Maple Flag. The hair on my arms stands straight up on a full afterburner takeoff...


----------



## CubaMark

*US to cut army size to pre-Second World War levels*



> The US defence department has unveiled proposals to shrink the Army by around 80,000 soldiers, scrap an Air Force fleet of tank-killing jets and limit the deployments of half the Navy's cruisers.
> 
> While even a reduced US military budget of $496 billion (£297 billion) would be by far the largest in the world, the plans represent a major retrenchment after 12 years of fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.
> 
> Analysts said the proposals were a further shift away from an era of drawn-out foreign occupations requiring large ground forces and instead emphasised more agile capabilities like special forces and cyber warfare.
> 
> In a major speech last year, Mr Obama said the US could no longer wage "a boundless global war on terror" and would adopt a more constrained military posture.


(TelegraphUK)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *US to cut army size to pre-Second World War levels*
> 
> 
> 
> (TelegraphUK)


Wrong time for that. Obama's posture of 6 years of extraordinary weakness necessitates maintaining higher levels of force than this. If he wasn't such a demonstrable fool, I would swear he was a quisling.


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> You may not have a choice in that matter, young Lochinvar...  My business trip in January fell through, but I may suddenly feel the urge to buy Macfury a cold beer some afternoon, breathe a little Tranna smog, you know?


Please give him my personal regards when you visit would you FeXL?


----------



## Macfury

Piers Morgan, FIRED!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/b...cnn-plan-end-to-his-prime-time-show.html?_r=0

Sweet!


----------



## SINC

No surprise here, never did like the guy, his perspective or his ability to get past the fluff in most interviews.


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Please give him my personal regards when you visit would you FeXL?


Hey, if someone thinks they can post online threats (all screenshotted)) that I don't have a choice in who comes to visit on my personal property, home or business, either I, or most definitely the women at either (who will insist) would be more than happy to have 52 division send their warmest regards as well. If it came to that I'm more than happy to share the online threats.

They don't take too kindly to bikers or anyone else for that matter who threaten with their unwanted presence in people's homes or businesses, trust me on that!

If it isn't clear, I most definitely have a choice, and FeXL is NOT welcome anywhere here.


----------



## SINC

groovetube said:


> Hey, if someone thinks they can post online threats (all screenshotted)) that I don't have a choice in who comes to visit on my personal property, home or business, either I, or most definitely the women at either (who will insist) would be more than happy to have 52 division send their warmest regards as well. If it came to that I'm more than happy to share the online threats.
> 
> They don't take too kindly to bikers or anyone else for that matter who threaten with their unwanted presence in people's homes or businesses, trust me on that!
> 
> If it isn't clear, I most definitely have a choice, and FeXL is NOT welcome anywhere here.


Not sure what kind of warped thing you have going now in your head, gt, but don't direct them at me. Good grief all I did was ask FeXL to pass on my personal regards to Macfury. I've had more than a few business dealings with mf and couldn't care less about you. Are you paranoid or what?


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> Not sure what kind of warped thing you have going now in your head, gt, but don't direct them at me. Good grief all I did was ask FeXL to pass on my personal regards to Macfury. I've had more than a few business dealings with mf and couldn't care less about you. Are you paranoid or what?


My post wasn't about you SINC. Just to clarify.


----------



## SINC

I see, so your own 'online threats' including quotes from me, (screenshotted) are OK, are they? Get a grip son, your losing it.

Oh, and while we're on the screenshotting as you call it, I still have this one to enter into any future debate: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46939750/groove meltdown copy 2.png


----------



## groovetube

SINC said:


> I see, so your own 'online threats' including quotes from me, are OK, are they? Get a grip son, your losing it.


WHAT threats SINC???

I haven't threatened anyone. Simply made clear that if these threats I see continue, or someone causes some problems, the police WILL be called.


----------



## SINC

Duh. The threats to call the TO cops into the debate.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Duh. The threats to call the TO cops into the debate.


This is getting absolutely irrational. Someone should send the paramedics over to the 'tube residence right away.


----------



## groovetube

well macfury, if someone hostile threatens with online threats you that you have no choice in their 'visit', perhaps you'll think differently, particularly when there are others in your home and business. (most important) Anyone would. It could be nothing, but you should take seriously what could happen when threats of these sorts are made.

It's no laughing matter. Unless they want to backtrack and clarify these threats.

I'm not the only one to recognize these as threats...

I won't discuss it any further.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> This is getting absolutely irrational. Someone should send the paramedics over to the 'tube residence right away.


If only it wasn't so sad. Good grief, the guy has lost it completely.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Piers Morgan, FIRED!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/b...cnn-plan-end-to-his-prime-time-show.html?_r=0
> 
> Sweet!


I did not mind Piers Morgan, but he was no Larry King. Wonder who they shall select to replace him? We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I did not mind Piers Morgan, but he was no Larry King. Wonder who they shall select to replace him? We shall see.


Apparently, Larry King.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Apparently, Larry King.


Really?!? Personally, I would like to see someone new. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Really?!? Personally, I would like to see someone new. We shall see.


He's announced his availability for the job.


----------



## mrjimmy

Sorry to continue the derailing, but I feel this needs to be addressed.



groovetube said:


> I don't interact with that member and nor will I ever in the future, permanently...





FeXL said:


> *You may not have a choice in that matter, young Lochinvar...* My business trip in January fell through, but I may suddenly feel the urge to buy Macfury a cold beer some afternoon, breathe a little Tranna smog, you know?.


Feels threatening to me. If it was meant otherwise, perhaps some clarification is needed.



SINC said:


> Please give him my personal regards when you visit would you FeXL?





SINC said:


> Are you paranoid or what?





SINC said:


> Get a grip son, your losing it.


Given the relationship between SINC and groovetube, this could easily be construed as baiting. I think to deny it by attacking gt rather than explaining it exacerbates the situation. 

ehMac is becoming more of a gong show than Rob Ford. This latest foray into thinly veiled threats pushes it dangerously close to the edge of irrelevant.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> ehMac is becoming more of a gong show than Rob Ford. This latest foray into thinly veiled threats pushes it dangerously close to the edge of irrelevant.


Yes, time for you to leave! This place is not good enough for the likes of jimmy!


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> Yes, time for you to leave! This place is not good enough for the likes of jimmy!


Spare me your pathetic trolling Macfury.


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> Sorry to continue the derailing, but I feel this needs to be addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feels threatening to me. If it was meant otherwise, perhaps some clarification is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given the relationship between SINC and groovetube, this could easily be construed as baiting. I think to deny it by attacking gt rather than explaining it exacerbates the situation.
> 
> ehMac is becoming more of a gong show than Rob Ford. This latest foray into thinly veiled threats pushes it dangerously close to the edge of irrelevant.


thx mr jimmy, yes perhaps a few years ago this sort of thing was more tolerated, but these days, laws have changed, just recently knew someone in a somewhat similar situation that resulted in the subjects door getting a knock.

It doesn't surprise me that SINC and macfury would bait and poke fun at this, but in the end, it's not going to matter what they think or say on this.

I think macfury would prefer if any and all who disagree would leave. But then, who would he play with?


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> I think macfury would prefer if any and all who disagree would leave. But then, who would he play with?


I would happily continue to post, using EhMac as my personal soapbox.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> Spare me your pathetic trolling Macfury.


Spare me the sad spectacle of declaring that EhMac has "gone to the dogs," then returning like clockwork. You bark just like a dog, jimmy!


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> Spare me the sad spectacle of declaring that EhMac has "gone to the dogs," then returning like clockwork. You bark just like a dog, jimmy!


You are a pathetic little troll.


----------



## groovetube

mrjimmy said:


> You are a pathetic little troll.


I think it's macfury speak for I don't like you participating so I'll bait you until you get mad and leave.


----------



## Macfury

mrjimmy said:


> You are a pathetic little troll.


.


----------



## mrjimmy

groovetube said:


> I think it's macfury speak for I don't like you participating so I'll bait you until you get mad and leave.


Oh I know. He's completely predictable. 

It's sad because I asked a reasonable question with my post. I guess the self appointed mayors of ehMac don't like any dissension in their tiny fiefdom.

C'est la vie.


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> .


Little bit of time on your hands huh troll?


----------



## Macfury

I've found that I'm a bit of a Svengali on sites such as this. Yes, members threaten and rail, but they always return. You would think jimmy, for example, would have better things to do with his time then engage me in rollicking debate, yet here he is. 

It's both a blessing and a curse.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I've found that I'm a bit of a Svengali on sites such as this. Yes, members threaten and rail, but they always return.


delusions of grandeur macfury. There's quite a few that haven't returned. Perhaps one day you'll get your wish, there'll only be a few that agree with each other left!


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> there'll only be a few that agree with each other left!


I'd say it's already improving. There are only a few who agree with each other on the left.


----------



## mrjimmy

Macfury said:


> I've found that I'm a bit of a Svengali on sites such as this.


:lmao:

Ahhhh, no. 

Please see post # 4449.

But to be fair, you weren't always that way. Since the Mayor left, you and some others have crossed the line. It's too bad but certainly predictable.


----------



## Macfury

And here's the natural evolution of American liberalism:



> *Let’s give up on academic freedom in favor of justice...*
> 
> If our university community opposes racism, sexism, and heterosexism, why should we put up with research that counters our goals simply in the name of “academic freedom...


The Doctrine of Academic Freedom | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Hey, if someone thinks they can post online threats (all screenshotted)) that I don't have a choice in who comes to visit on my personal property, home or business, either I, or most definitely the women at either (who will insist) would be more than happy to have 52 division send their warmest regards as well. If it came to that I'm more than happy to share the online threats.
> 
> They don't take too kindly to bikers or anyone else for that matter who threaten with their unwanted presence in people's homes or businesses, trust me on that!
> 
> If it isn't clear, I most definitely have a choice, and FeXL is NOT welcome anywhere here.


I'm sorry, are you addressing me? I'm pretty sure you're addressing me, even though you've sworn you never would, repeatedly, the most recent of which was just a few days back. What happened to forever & ever, Amen? Damn, groove, you disappoint, once again…

Ooooo, all screenshotted! That's the scariest of all! Shakin' in my ridin' boots… And just what have you screenshot? That I may trundle down to the Center Of The Universe for a beer? Frightening stuff, groove. The sort of material that forms the basis for a good horror flick. I imagine 52 Division would probably be all over that, right after they dealt with all the other important details in their life, like cleaning windshields, polishing hubcaps and wiping cat crap off their boots. Here's the number: "911". Don't forget to tell them everything, from your lies to your name calling & your refusal to apologize for either.

And, who said anything about "your personal property"? Fear-mongering, much? Your histrionics are hilarious. VICTIM!!! VICTIM!!! I've been a name-calling liar online, my conscience is getting to me & now I think big, bad, FeXL is coming to get me. Plus, all my womens is frightened! I can't sleep at night! HELP!!!

Screenshot this: I don't care about your dog, great aunt, goldfish, co-workers, cross-dressing brother, cat or any other member of your sad & pitiful life. They haven't lied to me or called me names on a public board. And, I don't know or care what your definition of "anywhere here" is but, you don't own the city.

It's my understanding that you play drums at a number of establishments all over southern Ontario. For that matter, if we listen to your bluster, practically the world over! Tranna's not that big. There's a good chance I could be sitting in a bar, having a nice cold beer when some nameless band shows up on stage and, wonder of wonders, you're the drummer. Should I then call 52 Division because it's patently obvious that you're stalking me as I was there first? Maybe I could call VICTIM!!!, too. Nope, that word just doesn't roll off my tongue like it does for you. It catches in the back of my throat, kinda like a hairball...

Interesting that you'd fall back on the law now when you had no issues breaking the rules of civil conduct online earlier. Hypocrite, much? If we had mods at the time you would have had a little holiday to think about your lies & name calling and we wouldn't be here today. If you'd have dealt with this months ago, you wouldn't be going through this paranoia now.

Even more interesting, and, the peak of irony, you don't seem to have an issue dealing with things on a face to face basis when the circumstances suit you. Do you have permission to access private property when you go bill collecting? Jes' askin'...



> Groovetube: I still may have dropped by to pick up a few items however
> 
> I find face to face stuff an work wonders. People often hide behind emails etc. but can change quickly when they have to speak to you directly.


(quote from another board)

First, are you talking about stealing? On a public board? I'm sure 52 Division would have something to say about that.

Second, I agree wholeheartedly about dealing with people directly. I know damn well you don't have the intestinal fortitude to say any of the things you have online to my face. That makes you the worst kind of coward on the planet. The kind of snivelling, spineless weasel who'd attempt to hide behind internet anonymity, conduct yourself like a recalcitrant 10 year old, flat out refuse to deal with your impropriety, hold your breath 'til you turn blue and then cry foul when someone else wants justice.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. That's your free lesson for the day.



groovetube said:


> well macfury, if someone hostile threatens with online threats you that you have no choice in their 'visit', perhaps you'll think differently, particularly when there are others in your home and business. (most important) Anyone would. It could be nothing, but you should take seriously what could happen when threats of these sorts are made.
> 
> It's no laughing matter. Unless they want to backtrack and clarify these threats.
> 
> I'm not the only one to recognize these as threats...
> 
> I won't discuss it any further.


How do you know I'm hostile? You know nothing about me, save I don't suffer fools like yourself. And, exactly what threats have I made? That I might drop by for a visit? 

Funny, I've told SINC that I might drop by for a visit. Hasn't called the cops yet. Actually, a few years back I dropped by his place completely unannounced & we shook hands & had a couple cold ones. When I mentioned that I might drop by & have a beer with Macfury, he didn't go all ape****. Back in December I told kps I may drop by for a beer. He didn't threaten my arrival with the cops. I've connected with a number of ehMacians and not one of them have ever mentioned law enforcement. None of them have ever called me hostile to my face. None of them have ever said that I was threatening.

Why are you different? Why does the concept of a visit from me frighten you, groovetube? Scares you to the point that you want to call the cops with screenshots. Tell ya what, don't wait for my visit. Call the cops now. Send 'em all your screenshots. The more people on this planet know you're a name calling liar, the better.

BTW, have you told all the women in your life the truth <snort> about your little issue? How this all started? With you? Or have you just told them the half of the story that doesn't make you look like the east end of a westbound skunk? Something that portrays you as the protagonist in a sick & twisted contemporary version of a Shakespearean tragedy? A veritable hero against insurmountable odds? Is that it?

As to your statement that you won't discuss it further…promise? I already know that you're not a man whose word can be trusted but, please? Everybody here is tired of your whining, your sulking, your neediness, your "VICTIM!!!" and your transparent attempts to curry reason & support from the masses. Again, notice that not one single, solitary person on these boards has ever come along and said, "FeXL, you're wrong in your accusations". Think about that for just a second. 42,000 ehMac members know you screwed up.

And, Admin, if you're following this, if you had dealt with this Charlie Foxtrot last summer, the few remaining posters on this board wouldn't be subjected to it now. You're just as much to blame for this as groovetube is…


----------



## Macfury

OK, now you have galvanized groovetube's women into action. 



FeXL said:


> I'm sorry, are you addressing me? I'm pretty sure you're addressing me, even though you've sworn you never would, repeatedly, the most recent of which was just a few days back. What happened to forever & ever, Amen? Damn, groove, you disappoint, once again…
> 
> Ooooo, all screenshotted! That's the scariest of all! Shakin' in my ridin' boots… And just what have you screenshot? That I may trundle down to the Center Of The Universe for a beer? Frightening stuff, groove. The sort of material that forms the basis for a good horror flick. I imagine 52 Division would probably be all over that, right after they dealt with all the other important details in their life, like cleaning windshields, polishing hubcaps and wiping cat crap off their boots. Here's the number: "911". Don't forget to tell them everything, from your lies to your name calling & your refusal to apologize for either.
> 
> And, who said anything about "your personal property"? Fear-mongering, much? Your histrionics are hilarious. VICTIM!!! VICTIM!!! I've been a name-calling liar online, my conscience is getting to me & now I think big, bad, FeXL is coming to get me.  Plus, all my womens is frightened! I can't sleep at night! HELP!!!
> 
> Screenshot this: I don't care about your dog, great aunt, goldfish, co-workers, cross-dressing brother, cat or any other member of your sad & pitiful life. They haven't lied to me or called me names on a public board. And, I don't know or care what your definition of "anywhere here" is but, you don't own the city.
> 
> It's my understanding that you play drums at a number of establishments all over southern Ontario. For that matter, if we listen to your bluster, practically the world over! Tranna's not that big. There's a good chance I could be sitting in a bar, having a nice cold beer when some nameless band shows up on stage and, wonder of wonders, you're the drummer. Should I then call 52 Division because it's patently obvious that you're stalking me as I was there first? Maybe I could call VICTIM!!!, too. Nope, that word just doesn't roll off my tongue like it does for you. It catches in the back of my throat, kinda like a hairball...
> 
> Interesting that you'd fall back on the law now when you had no issues breaking the rules of civil conduct online earlier. Hypocrite, much? If we had mods at the time you would have had a little holiday to think about your lies & name calling and we wouldn't be here today. If you'd have dealt with this months ago, you wouldn't be going through this paranoia now.
> 
> Even more interesting, and, the peak of irony, you don't seem to have an issue dealing with things on a face to face basis when the circumstances suit you. Do you have permission to access private property when you go bill collecting? Jes' askin'...
> 
> 
> 
> (quote from another board)
> 
> First, are you talking about stealing? On a public board? I'm sure 52 Division would have something to say about that.
> 
> Second, I agree wholeheartedly about dealing with people directly. I know damn well you don't have the intestinal fortitude to say any of the things you have online to my face. That makes you the worst kind of coward on the planet. The kind of snivelling, spineless weasel who'd attempt to hide behind internet anonymity, conduct yourself like a recalcitrant 10 year old, flat out refuse to deal with your impropriety, hold your breath 'til you turn blue and then cry foul when someone else wants justice.
> 
> People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. That's your free lesson for the day.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know I'm hostile? You know nothing about me, save I don't suffer fools like yourself. And, exactly what threats have I made? That I might drop by for a visit?
> 
> Funny, I've told SINC that I might drop by for a visit. Hasn't called the cops yet. Actually, a few years back I dropped by his place completely unannounced & we shook hands & had a couple cold ones. When I mentioned that I might drop by & have a beer with Macfury, he didn't go all ape****. Back in December I told kps I may drop by for a beer. He didn't threaten my arrival with the cops. I've connected with a number of ehMacians and not one of them have ever mentioned law enforcement. None of them have ever called me hostile to my face. None of them have ever said that I was threatening.
> 
> Why are you different? Why does the concept of a visit from me frighten you, groovetube? Scares you to the point that you want to call the cops with screenshots. Tell ya what, don't wait for my visit. Call the cops now. Send 'em all your screenshots. The more people on this planet know you're a name calling liar, the better.
> 
> BTW, have you told all the women in your life the truth <snort> about your little issue? How this all started? With you? Or have you just told them the half of the story that doesn't make you look like the east end of a westbound skunk? Something that portrays you as the protagonist in a sick & twisted contemporary version of a Shakespearean tragedy? A veritable hero against insurmountable odds? Is that it?
> 
> As to your statement that you won't discuss it further…promise? I already know that you're not a man whose word can be trusted but, please? Everybody here is tired of your whining, your sulking, your neediness, your "VICTIM!!!" and your transparent attempts to curry reason & support from the masses. Again, notice that not one single, solitary person on these boards has ever come along and said, "FeXL, you're wrong in your accusations". Think about that for just a second. 42,000 ehMac members know you screwed up.
> 
> And, Admin, if you're following this, if you had dealt with this Charlie Foxtrot last summer, the few remaining posters on this board wouldn't be subjected to it now. You're just as much to blame for this as groovetube is…


----------



## i-rui

this place has truly degenerated into an absolute ****hole.


----------



## groovetube

i-rui said:


> this place has truly degenerated into an absolute ****hole.


Indeed it has. When someone starts issuing threats that you will get a visit and 'you don't get a choice', and you have no idea who you're dealing with, other than they have attacked you day in and day out despite you ignoring them for months, and they have a beef with you (not to mention their obvious love of guns) I think anyone would call the cops when this individual shows up at your home or business and 'you don't have a choice'. What the hell does that mean?

Yeah.

I've met quite few people here, and shared a pint a number of times, and have always said I enjoy it. But when someone continually issues threats like this and calls you a coward because you won't meet them face to face etc., there's a red flag and I'm not interested. 

I meet people for pints that I can clink glasses with even if I don't agree with them on things, and have a good time doing it. 

Not this kind of shyte.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> this place has truly degenerated into an absolute ****hole.


I agree. Someone call 911!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's announced his availability for the job.


Being available and being hired are two different things. We shall see who is selected.


----------



## FeXL

i-rui said:


> this place has truly degenerated into an absolute ****hole.


I agree. I have some opinions as to why but, I'd be pleased to hear yours first.


----------



## Dr.G.

Star Spangled Banner Full Version with Lyrics on Screen - YouTube


----------



## FeXL

groovetube said:


> Indeed it has. When someone starts issuing threats that you will get a visit and 'you don't get a choice', and you have no idea who you're dealing with, other than they have attacked you day in and day out despite you ignoring them for months, and they have a beef with you (not to mention their obvious love of guns)


VICTIM!!! VICTIM!!! I'm am blameless, name calling liar! It's all somebody else's fault! ATTACKED!!!

ATTACKED!!! Day in & day out. Oh, the horror. Woe is me. VICTIM!!!

GUNS!!! GUNS!!! He's a gun lovin', motorcycling savage from Alberta. GUNS!!! 

Lovin' this lefty rhetoric. How many guns do I own, groove?

Let me fill in the next two steps for ya: HOMOPHOBE!!! RACIST!!! There, saved ya a non-response but it cost ya a post. Sorry...

You've not only earned but you deserve every bit of sarcasm, scorn & derision you're getting.



groovetube said:


> I think anyone would call the cops when this individual shows up at your home or business and 'you don't have a choice'. What the hell does that mean?


I'll leave that up to your vivid imagination. You're very good at making $hit up, please, carry on. The huddled masses are teeming for your next non-response to me. That, an' the 52'nd is awaiting your next screenshot...


----------



## i-rui

FeXL said:


> I agree. I have some opinions as to why but, I'd be pleased to hear yours first.


no point. not worth it.


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> no point. not worth it.


Why mention it in the first place then? You'll post when you're feeling emotional, but have no interest in intellectualizing it?


----------



## Dr.G.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


----------



## Dr.G.

5 Year-Old Boy Receives Letter From the IRS. He Responded.

Credit Suisse helped clients hide billions from IRS - Senate report - Feb. 25, 2014

"Book 'em, Danno." Let no US tax cheat get through the net ................ except those that deal with Credit Suisse.

"According to the new Senate report, Credit Suisse held more than 22,000 accounts for U.S. customers, with assets valued at between $10 billion and $12 billion. Up to 95% of the accounts weren't reported for tax purposes to the IRS. "


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> 5 Year-Old Boy Receives Letter From the IRS. He Responded.
> 
> Credit Suisse helped clients hide billions from IRS - Senate report - Feb. 25, 2014
> 
> "Book 'em, Danno." Let no US tax cheat get through the net ................ except those that deal with Credit Suisse.
> 
> "According to the new Senate report, Credit Suisse held more than 22,000 accounts for U.S. customers, with assets valued at between $10 billion and $12 billion. Up to 95% of the accounts weren't reported for tax purposes to the IRS. "


Wow a topic related post here. Way to go Dr.G:clap::clap::clap:

NOTE: That's taxes and penalties. At the high income end penalties have been running about 500 times the taxes collected. Remember the F(u)BARs? ...
So 6 Billion$ collected equals 10 to 12 Millions in taxes collected and this from the so-called uber wealthy. 

It ain't illegal for Americans to keep accounts outside the US just damned dangerous even if you live in the same country as those accounts.

Let's go it from another direction $10 Billion in unidentified accounts. If they're lucky about 100 million a year in interest. Even in the top bracket that's only $35 Million a year in uncollected taxes or about $100 Million in total uncollected taxes. Interestingly while the IRS only reviews back taxes for 3 years, those F(u)BAR and other penalties can go back 6 years or longer. Even with the $500,000 per account F(u)BAR penalty limit, those penalties could easily wipe out that entire $10 Billion. 

As much as it pains me to defend the super elite (let them hire their own lawyers), even here the FATCA pogrom is extortion pure and simple. In Canada where there are no secret accounts and interest is already reported to the IRS (where appropriate), it is criminal that Flaherty chose to enable it.

BTW I am betting that the IRS came back and demanded the kidlet fill out that damned 8892 form. Probably threatened them with a $10,000 penalty for failing to do so.


----------



## FeXL

i-rui said:


> no point. not worth it.


That's exactly what one of the reasons is. Fewer & fewer people care.

Thank you for highlighting it, intentionally or not.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Wow a topic related post here. Way to go Dr.G:clap::clap::clap:
> 
> NOTE: That's taxes and penalties. At the high income end penalties have been running about 500 times the taxes collected. Remember the F(u)BARs? ...
> So 6 Billion$ collected equals 10 to 12 Millions in taxes collected and this from the so-called uber wealthy.
> 
> It ain't illegal for Americans to keep accounts outside the US just damned dangerous even if you live in the same country as those accounts.
> 
> Let's go it from another direction $10 Billion in unidentified accounts. If they're lucky about 100 million a year in interest. Even in the top bracket that's only $35 Million a year in uncollected taxes or about $100 Million in total uncollected taxes. Interestingly while the IRS only reviews back taxes for 3 years, those F(u)BAR and other penalties can go back 6 years or longer. Even with the $500,000 per account F(u)BAR penalty limit, those penalties could easily wipe out that entire $10 Billion.
> 
> As much as it pains me to defend the super elite (let them hire their own lawyers), even here the FATCA pogrom is extortion pure and simple. In Canada where there are no secret accounts and interest is already reported to the IRS (where appropriate), it is criminal that Flaherty chose to enable it.
> 
> BTW I am betting that the IRS came back and demanded the kidlet fill out that damned 8892 form. Probably threatened them with a $10,000 penalty for failing to do so.


This was money legally owed to the IRS, Bob. It was smuggled to Switzerland and hidden from the IRS. These are the accounts that they should be going after, and not the likes of you and me ............... or that poor five year old boy.


----------



## FeXL

So, that nasty corporation, <spit> Walmart, has announced that they will purchase $250 billion of American goods over the next 10 years. Mike Rowe (yes, that one) has openly endorsed this action and is now taking heat from the left.

Mike Rowe Responds to Critics of His Walmart Ad



> So what's the problem? $250 billion is an enormous sum of money. Walmart would like some credit for this. Mike Rowe would like to give Walmart some credit for this, because Mike Rowe believes in buying American, and America working.
> 
> Well, the problem is this: Tribalism. The Tribe of the Left has decided that Walmart is evil, and they please their fellow tribesmen by saying Walmart is evil, and so even when Walmart pledges a $250 billion purchase of American domestic manufacturing, the dumb members of the tribe still want it explained to them how that is just _awful_, and the minor Priests of the tribe therefore undertake to do just that.


Further:



> Mike Rowe's sin seems to be that he does more than talk -- he gets results -- *and thus embarrasses the left as impotent whiners who have nothing to contribute but carping.*


M'bold & italic.

Wait...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> So, that nasty corporation, <spit> Walmart, has announced that they will purchase $250 billion of American goods over the next 10 years. Mike Rowe (yes, that one) has openly endorsed this action and is now taking heat from the left.
> 
> Mike Rowe Responds to Critics of His Walmart Ad
> 
> 
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold & italic.
> 
> Wait...


Damn bunch of leftie whiners. They should be supporting US jobs .............. Send the lot of them out to work in the fields just like Mao did way back when.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lg4gGk53iY]Look for the Union Label 1978 ILGWU ad - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Yep.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Yep.


You tell 'em, FeXL ................. those leftie bums are killing the US unions and American companies are forced to ship jobs overseas. Then, here comes Walmart, a true union-friendly and patriotic company wanted to "buy American", and they are blasted for doing so. God bless Walmart and God bless America. Paix, mon ami.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHlWSUSJEiU]Kate Smith: A Patriotic Medley (with Bing Crosby, Andy Williams and Tennessee Ernie Ford) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Buncha commies...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Buncha commies...


All too true, FeXL. We need to stand up to them and maintain our solidarity to protect the USA ................ especially in this thread. At some point we are all going to have to choose sides. Either you are with us or you are against us and the right way of thinking. Paix, mon ami. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly5ZKjjxMNM]Solidarity Forever (Pete Seeger) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msEYGql0drc[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., how is J.H. Blair these days?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., how is J.H. Blair these days?


Long dead, hopefully, under a ton of Harlan Country coal.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Long dead, hopefully, under a ton of Harlan Country coal.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


My apologies. I guess I did not guess correctly which side you were on.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My apologies. I guess I did not guess correctly which side you were on.


We are on the same side, Macfury. We can't let the likes of the United Mine Workers urge for greater mine safety and to improve mine workers' independence from the mine owners and the company store. That would hurt the bottom line for the mining companies. Don't tell me that you have suddenly become a supporter of the Knights of Labor and are now taking up the cause first attempted by Terence V. Powderly?????  Powderly wanted the Knights to promote "the social and cultural uplift of the workingman, reject Socialism and radicalism, demand the eight-hour day, and promoted the producers ethic of republicanism". 

Exactly which side are YOU on?????????????? Stick to your guns ............ if they don't come to work on Sunday, they should not expect to have a job on Monday.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

I don't often read anything by Ann Coulter and, while I don't necessarily agree with everything in her article, I found it an interesting read.

Raise Minimum Wage to $14 an Hour Using This One Weird Trick!

This quote stood out:



> According to Harvard economist George Borjas, our immigration policies have reduced American wages by $402 billion a year — while increasing profits for employers by $437 billion a year.


----------



## FeXL

Found this very revealing, too. Yeah, it's third hand & all but it just seems to jive with what's visible on the outside. There's a comment that notes this was circulated last year & handled. I did a bit of searching, couldn't find anything.

An Insider's Stunning Firsthand Experience with President Obama 



> The president told them that he would take no action on any of the Commission's recommendations and explained his rationale in the following way - prior to his re-election and probably after his re-election he would do nothing. Simply put it was a pure political decision. He stated that to accept reductions in the growth of entitlements would alienate his base and he would only look at the tax increase side of the recommendations after the election. He further added that to accept the recommendations would give the Republicans a victory as seen by the voters and he was not ever going to do that now or ever. He was adamant that he wanted more spending and more taxes and that he would pursue that course throughout his administration until his last day in office.
> 
> Stunned by that answer, Bowles asked him if he would do what's right for the country and exert some leadership to save the nation's fiscal future. *Obama's response was that he would let the next president worry about the spending and debt, but he was going to spend and tax and re-distribute wealth throughout his term.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

This could just as easily be directed towards one of the usual suspects in the GHG thread.

Open Letter to a Fellow Atheist



> Seattle, being a non-believer myself, I agree with you that these things are not true.
> 
> Here is where I depart from you: Calling someone who does believe them a fool.
> 
> Was Blaise Pascal a fool? Before you answer, you should look him up on Wikipedia. He was quite brilliant. Incredibly brilliant, actually. Also, a religious Christian zealot (I think he'd agree with that characterization).
> 
> Was Isaac Newton a fool? I trust you know enough about him to know he was no fool.
> 
> Was William Wilberforce a fool? If you have to Wiki him, do so.
> 
> What you are doing is taking your lack of inquisitiveness (which I share) for some explanation as to What It All Means (I don't know that it means much of anything, and I suspect you feel similarly) as your demarcation between "fool" and, I guess, a wise man such as yourself.
> 
> There are a lot of brilliant men -- far more brilliant than you could dream -- in history, who not only believed in God (and Jesus), and not only were not "fools," but were in fact smarter than you (or, even myself, ego compels me to say, though it's a somewhat closer call) could ever hope to be.
> 
> *You are guilty not of atheism (which is not a crime) but the great sin of our age, the great Vanity, that of Tribalism.*


M'bold.

Good read.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I don't often read anything by Ann Coulter and, while I don't necessarily agree with everything in her article, I found it an interesting read.
> 
> Raise Minimum Wage to $14 an Hour Using This One Weird Trick!
> 
> This quote stood out:


People always wonder why unions support minimum wage hikes. It's because it makes new hires too expensive to train for the skilled jobs held by union members.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That Wall Street straw man, sounds just like a liberal suffering "microaggressions."


----------



## CubaMark

*Cheney says Obama prefers food stamps to military spending*












> Former Vice Pres. Dick Cheney slammed the Obama administration Monday over proposed military spending cuts, insisting that budget cuts would be “absolutely devastating” to the U.S. military and accusing Pres. Barack Obama of preferring welfare to military spending.
> 
> Cheney said the president “would much rather spend the money on food stamps than he would on a strong military or support for our troops” during an appearance Monday evening on Fox News’s Hannity.
> 
> “I have not been a strong supporter of Barack Obama. But this really is over the top. It does enormous long-term damage to our military,” Cheney said.


(MSNBC)

*Ari Melber's Open Letter to Dick Cheney*



> Let’s start with the false choice: our soldiers, or our food stamps. Mr. Vice President, we live in a nation where many of our soldiers and military families are using food stamps.
> 
> Military families spend $100 million dollars in SNAP benefits on site at military bases every year! In any given month, about 900,000 veterans live in households that use food stamps, or SNAP benefits.
> 
> We should work towards an economy where our veterans have enough money that they don’t need SNAP. But right now they do.
> 
> Mr. Cheney, under your false choice, you wouldn’t be picking soldiers over “food stamps.” You’d be picking weapons systems over the many soldiers on food stamps. But you know that. So why did you grab this comparison out of the thin Wyoming air? Well, it’s a common habit among some GOP politicians.


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, yeah--little old ladies eating cat food. CM, you must bleed mother's milk.

Here's the quote:

"I think the whole thing is not driven by any change in world circumstances, it's driven by budget considerations. He'd much rather spend the money on food stamps than he would on a strong military or support for our troops."

I don't believe his opinion is inaccurate. Perhaps Obama wants to buy off Putin's Ukraine posturing with food stamps instead of the pre-WWII military he envisions.


----------



## Macfury

OK then, just take Crimea. But no food stamps for you!


----------



## Macfury

When you've lost the _Washington Post_:

President Obama's foreign policy is based on fantasy - The Washington Post


----------



## Macfury

I think that Obama should simply state that if the Ukrainians like their sovereignty, then they can keep it.


----------



## Macfury

Damn it! Somebody is celebrating REAL American values, instead of this namby-pamby eurosocialist victim gruel embraced by the left--including some EhMacers:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






It's incredible to see how far Eurosocialism has succeeded in removing that country's 'nads. Time to reverse course.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Damn it! Somebody is celebrating REAL American values, instead of this namby-pamby eurosocialist victim gruel embraced by the left--including some EhMacers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's incredible to see how far Eurosocialism has succeeded in removing that country's 'nads. Time to reverse course.


Right on, Brother Macfury. We should go get one of those Caddies ................


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. We should go get one of those Caddies ................


Work a little harder, Dr. G. and you shall have one!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Work a little harder, Dr. G. and you shall have one!


We have the money now, Macfury, and we need a smaller second car. The Doxiemobile is difficult to park in the driveway.


----------



## Macfury

A dog must be allowed to run, even while it is being chauffeured!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A dog must be allowed to run, even while it is being chauffeured!


True, but not in the snow and slush. As well, doxies run faster than some of the speed limits. Others like to run in the snow .............. and some just drive their own trucks to get where they want to go.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Work a little harder, Dr. G. and you shall have one!


This is what my wife wants ................... yuk. XX)


----------



## Macfury

Obama can't spell "respect"--even when it's spelled for him on the Teleprompter:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting results.

(CNN) - "Sen. Rand Paul easily won the presidential straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Conference on Saturday, giving the potential White House candidate an early boost with the Republican base ahead of the 2016 election.

It was the second-straight year the Kentucky lawmaker topped the poll at the annual gathering, notching 31% support.

Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas was second with 11%, followed by conservative firebrand Ben Carson.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, never popular with many in the party's conservative base, was fourth with 8% support.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, who for a time gave Mitt Romney a run for his money with conservative voters in the 2012 presidential race, rounded out the top six."

Sen. Rand Paul convincingly wins CPAC presidential straw poll – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting results.
> 
> (CNN) - "Sen. Rand Paul easily won the presidential straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Conference on Saturday, giving the potential White House candidate an early boost with the Republican base ahead of the 2016 election.


Chris Christie is dead meat after his non-endorsement of Romney, and his manlove moments with Obama on the New Jersey beaches.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Chris Christie is dead meat after his non-endorsement of Romney, and his manlove moments with Obama on the New Jersey beaches.


Well, he outpolled Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania ............. so what does that make them???


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he outpolled Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania ............. so what does that make them???


Less popular than dead meat.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Less popular than dead meat.


XX)


----------



## Macfury

Obama tells crowd who can't afford "Affordable Care" that they should cut their personal spending to pay for his mandate:



> I guess what I would say, if you looked at that person's budget, and you looked at their cable bill, their cell phone bill, other things that they're spending on, it may turn out that it's just they haven't prioritized health care because right now everybody is healthy.


Obama to Latino Town Hall: Cut Cable, Cell Phone to Afford ACA Plan - Christine Rousselle


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Obama tells crowd who can't afford "Affordable Care" that they should cut their personal spending to pay for his mandate:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama to Latino Town Hall: Cut Cable, Cell Phone to Afford ACA Plan - Christine Rousselle


Hmm I remember an Alberta cabinet minister suggesting we should put sweaters over our down jackets if we could not afford the cost of natural gas. I wonder if that speech writer now works fo BO.


----------



## Dr.G.

CNN Poll: Rand Paul goes where his father never went – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Interesting times if you are a Republican in the US.


----------



## FeXL

One of the best lines I've ever heard in a political campaign...

Link[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y24MFOfFU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y24MFOfFU[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

This race for the presidency is getting more and more interesting . 

"Rand Paul has become the first of the potential Republican White House contenders to put together a political organization in all 50 states. It's the latest sign that the senator is working to assemble a much wider network than his father, former Rep. Ron Paul, did when the longtime congressman from Texas made bids for the GOP nomination in 2008 and 2012 with extremely strong but narrow backing from libertarian-leaning voters."

Rand Paul takes another step towards White House run – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## SINC

Negotiations . . .


----------



## CubaMark

*There really isn't a facepalm graphic with sufficient dismay to adequately express the following...*

*Two Christian SC Senators Block Third Grader's State Fossil Proposal Because Jesus*



> Earlier this year eight-year-old Olivia McConnell wrote her state representatives to suggest that since South Carolina doesn’t currently have a state fossil, it should be given one!





> She sent the letter to Representative Robert Ridgeway(D) and Sen. Kevin Johnson(D), asking them to sponsor a bill officially making the woolly mammoth the official state fossil.
> 
> “We can’t just say we need a sate fossil because I like fossils,” the third grader told The State. “That wouldn’t make sense.” She ended the letter “Please work on this for me” before signing, “Your friend, Olivia.”
> 
> “Why not? It can’t hurt anything,” Ridgeway said. “But the benefit to this is to the children and young people of South Carolina, letting them realize that they do have a say-so in what happens in South Carolina and, No. 2, it gives them experience and information about the governmental process and legislative process in South Carolina.”





> The bill passed the House with overwhelming support but encountered some difficulties when Senator Mike Fair(R-Turd) objected to the bill for “religious reasons.”
> 
> Fair, who has compared the President to Osama Bin Laden, helped to block funding for a rape crisis center, called climate change a hoax, and blocked evolution from the state’s science standards, saying “I don’t have a problem with teaching theories. I don’t think it should be taught as fact,” stood up for Biblical representation in the state fossil–after all, what’s science without Jesus?
> 
> Bryant proposed an amendment to the bill to include a passage from Genesis explaining the Biblical creation of life–because why not?
> 
> “I think it’s a good idea to designate the mammoth as the state fossil, I don’t have a problem with that. I just felt like it’d be a good thing to acknowledge the creator of the fossils,” Bryant told the Daily Beast.
> 
> Lt. Gov. Glenn McConnell blocked the proposed amendment because it introduced a new subject. He has since amended the amendment to describe the Columbian Mammoth as “created on the Sixth Day with the beasts of the field.”
> 
> In response to the Lt. Governor’s ruling Senator Mike Fair placed an objection to the bill, which has been put on hold until they can take what was a simple thing that would benefit children across South Carolina and make one little girl very happy–and figure out how to please the Creationists.


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## SINC

Hard to believe an elected rep could be that stupid.


----------



## Macfury

Is a woolly mammoth found in NC old enough to be a fossil? Anyway sounds like a nice idea. 

However, human driven climate change of any important degree is tantamount to a hoax.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Is a woolly mammoth found in NC old enough to be a fossil?


From the article cited above:

_One of the first discoveries of a vertebrae fossil in North America was on an S.C. plantation when slaves dug up wooly mammoth teeth from a swamp in 1725._​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> From the article cited above:
> 
> _One of the first discoveries of a vertebrae fossil in North America was on an S.C. plantation when slaves dug up wooly mammoth teeth from a swamp in 1725._​


I was thinking of the definition of a fossil in this case. Encased in rock? Covered by sediment? More than 10,000 years old? I'm not sure where "we found an ancient tooth" ends and "we found a fossil" begins.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Understanding Universal Health Care



> The White House is excitedly claiming that 7 million people signed up for Obamacare in 2013/2014.
> 
> Ignoring that their number is probably total BS, it works out to a whopping 2% of the US, which the White House calls “universal health care.”


Yup...

Further:

Less Than One-Quarter of Obamacare Enrollees Were Previously Uninsured; Three Quarters Were People Thrown Off Their Existing Insurance



> _Recall that between 5 million and 6 million Americans lost their health plans because of Obamacare last fall. *If the administration now succeeds in signing up 5 million to 6 million previously insured Americans, it will have achieved . . . nothing. Breaking even is no great accomplishment.*
> 
> And let’s not forget: Many of those new Obamacare sign-ups are self-sufficient people who were previously paying their own way and now receive government subsidies for insurance. *Creating government dependency is not progress — it’s a step backward.*​_


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Charles Koch: I'm Fighting to Restore a Free Society



> A truly free society is based on a vision of respect for people and what they value. In a truly free society, any business that disrespects its customers will fail, and deserves to do so. The same should be true of any government that disrespects its citizens. The central belief and fatal conceit of the current administration is that you are incapable of running your own life, but those in power are capable of running it for you. This is the essence of big government and collectivism.
> 
> More than 200 years ago, Thomas Jefferson warned that this could happen. "The natural progress of things," Jefferson wrote, "is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." He knew that no government could possibly run citizens' lives for the better. The more government tries to control, the greater the disaster, as shown by the current health-care debacle. Collectivists (those who stand for government control of the means of production and how people live their lives) promise heaven but deliver hell. For them, the promised end justifies the means.


----------



## Macfury

Koch is a hero. I don't have much truck with anyone who suffers from Koch Derangement Syndrome.


----------



## Dr.G.

Georgia's 'guns everywhere' bill celebrated by pro-gun lobby - World - CBC News

Oh, to be in Georgia now that Spring is here ...............


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Georgia's 'guns everywhere' bill celebrated by pro-gun lobby - World - CBC News
> 
> Oh, to be in Georgia now that Spring is here ...............


Gun violence only seems to be an extreme problem in cities and states either:

a) with the most gun control; or
b) run by Democrats.

Chicago is the perfect laboratory experiment for Democrat gun control experiments.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Koch is a hero. I don't have much truck with anyone who suffers from Koch Derangement Syndrome.


I don't get people who have a hate on for the Koch Bros. Yeah, they are billionaires, but there are over 200,000 people who have jobs because of them. They're the kind of people we need more of!!


----------



## FeXL

Good question.

What Does the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Need with 96 Armed Agents?



> That’s right, NOAA — the folks who forecast the weather, monitor the atmosphere and keep tabs on the oceans and waterways — has its own law enforcement division. It has a budget of $65 million and consists of 191 employees, including 96 special agents and 28 enforcement officers who carry weapons.


----------



## FeXL

Change you can believe in: further on the Charlie Foxtrot...

Number Of Uninsured Up By Nearly Four Million Since Obama Elected



> What they are trying to say is that the number of uninsured Americans is up more than 8% since Obama was elected. According to the Gallup numbers, there are at least 3.7 million more uninsured now, than on the day Obama was elected.
> 
> It is difficult to win an argument when the people on your side have no critical thinking skills.


----------



## MacDoc

New term coming into play for the AGW deniers.

*Delusionals*....

hmmm seems to fit very well.


----------



## FeXL

MacDoc said:


> New term coming into play for the AGW deniers.
> 
> *Delusionals*....
> 
> hmmm seems to fit very well.


So, did you drop this down at the arse end of the Am Pol thread because of dementia, stupidity or cowardice?

Jes' askin', 'cause any of the three *seems to fit very well.*

You have a great day out there in LaLa Land, MocDoc...


----------



## Macfury

Does he want to be congratulated for co-opting another lame-ass term that will make him feel better about the sinking of the good ship AGW?

We have a time-honoured term for people like MacDoc: he's _wrong_.




FeXL said:


> So, did you drop this down at the arse end of the Am Pol thread because of dementia, stupidity or cowardice?
> 
> Jes' askin', 'cause any of the three *seems to fit very well.*
> 
> You have a great day out there in LaLa Land, MocDoc...


----------



## eMacMan

MacDoc said:


> New term coming into play for the AGW deniers.
> 
> *Delusionals*....
> 
> hmmm seems to fit very well.


Ahhh when your models come up croppers, even after massaging the data beyond all recognition. When it turns out your 97% consensus is really less than 1%. In short when it all goes to hell and you got absolutely nothing, might as well go the Barf Limburger/Bill O'Reilly route and resort to name calling.

Any ways it confirms what has been obvious for some time. Absolutely nothing but weeds on the AGW side of the fence.

Brings to mind another question though; Why on earth post this in the American Political thread?


----------



## Dr.G.

Florida Couple Forced to Dig Up 17-Year Old Organic Garden : Natural Society

"Live Free or Die" is the official motto of the U.S. state of New Hampshire ................. too bad that the state motto of Florida is "In God We Trust ... All Others Pay Cash".


----------



## FeXL

So, there's been a gleeful shout from the left about the huge success in the 7 million questionable sign-ups the Charlie Foxtrot has allegedly tallied. However, it's now going to be more difficult to track that...

Obama Administration: ObamaCare Is So Successful We're Going To Make Sure It's Impossible To Measure Just How Awesome It Is



> _The Census Bureau, the authoritative source of health insurance data for more than three decades, is changing its annual survey so thoroughly that it will be difficult to measure the effects of President Obama’s health care law in the next report, due this fall, census officials said.
> 
> The changes are intended to improve the accuracy of the survey, being conducted this month in interviews with tens of thousands of households around the country. But the new questions are so different that the findings will not be comparable, the officials said.
> 
> An internal Census Bureau document said that the new questionnaire included a “total revision to health insurance questions” and, in a test last year, produced lower estimates of the uninsured. Thus, officials said, it will be difficult to say how much of any change is attributable to the Affordable Care Act and how much to the use of a new survey instrument.​_


So, where's the hue & cry from the progressives? Isn't the census one of their little darlings? Why no outrage?



> But chin up Mark. Socialism will be popular someday, it just needs a bigger advertising budget.


CM! Are they talking to you?


----------



## FeXL

Great news! After Kathleen Sebelius unceremoniously got the shoe from Obamacare, another outstanding progressive with a fine track record is going to take over.

Obama taps woman who denied access to war vets from memorial for ObamaCare



> *It seems that the woman who denied war vets access to their Memorial is the same one who will get to deny them their health care.*
> 
> But don’t worry the mainstream media reminds us Sylvia has a smiling face.


M'bold.

Further:



> On the job as director of the Office Management and Budget only six months, it was Burwell’s email that “initiated the process that closed national parks—like the National Mall containing the War Vets Memorial—visitors’ centers and even the “panda-cam” at the National Zoo.
> 
> For this dubious distinction in Obama regime history, ‘Barrier Burwell’ is still being lauded as “the single person who shut down the entire U.S. government for the first time in 17 years”.


Perfect...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Great news! After Kathleen Sebelius unceremoniously got the shoe from Obamacare, another outstanding progressive with a fine track record is going to take over.
> 
> Obama taps woman who denied access to war vets from memorial for ObamaCare
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect...


More proof that Obama is really Bush III. 

Specifically the: "If someone really screws up give them a promotion" philosophy obviously still thrives under Obushma's leadership.


----------



## eMacMan

*Masters of Hypocrisy*

While the IRS, with Canada's aid, is on a relentless hunt for US expats living abroad, their thinly veiled purpose to extort every dime these ex-pats have, John Kerry comes up with this:



> WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States on Thursday condemned as "grotesque" the distribution of leaflets demanding that Jews in eastern Ukraine register with a self-proclaimed local authority or face consequences. U.S. officials also denounced other instances of religious intolerance that are inflaming tensions the crisis in Ukraine and said no such behavior could be tolerated.
> 
> Speaking in Geneva after top diplomats from the U.S., European Union, Russia and Ukraine reached agreement on steps to de-escalate the situation, Secretary of State John Kerry denounced the leaflets.
> 
> "In the year 2014, after all of the miles traveled and all of the journey of history, this is not just intolerable; it's grotesque," Kerry told reporters. "It is beyond unacceptable. And any of the people who engage in these kinds of activities, from whatever party or whatever ideology or whatever place they crawl out of, there is no place for that. "
> 
> Kerry also denounced apparent threats to members of the Russian Orthodox Church from members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. He noted that the agreement signed on Thursday "strongly condemned and rejected all expressions of extremism, racism and religious intolerance, including anti-Semitism."
> 
> In Washington, U.S. officials said the anti-Semitic leaflets, which recall the days of czarist pogroms and Nazi-era persecution of Jews, have appeared recently in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk. The State Department said it was looking into who is responsible but said it took the threat seriously no matter who was behind the leaflets.
> 
> *The leaflets seen by U.S. officials purport to come from the Donetsk People's Republic, a self-styled, unrecognized breakaway authority that seeks to join Russia. The Donetsk Republic press office denied any involvement in the matter and says the leaflets are fake.*


US decries anti-Semitic leaflets in Ukraine - seattlepi.com

Not only is the US via the IRS involved in a very real pogrom but there seems to be a reasonable possibility that the US planted the leaflets in an attempt to smear the Russian faction in Eastern Ukraine. NOTE: The main purpose of the leaflets seems to be an attempt to inflame western sentiment against the Russian faction, something the Russians would probably want to avoid right now.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan, your own post is grotesque. Comparing this anti-Semitism to a tax matter, no mater how unfair, and calling it a pogrom is something I would hope you will reconsider.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> eMacMan, your own post is grotesque. Comparing this anti-Semitism to a tax matter, no mater how unfair, and calling it a pogrom is something I would hope you will reconsider.


I consider any sort of persecution based on religion or nationality equally obscene. I extend that to those who pound the drums of fear and hatred using either Muslims or Jews as their target/victims.

However what I attempted to point out is that the US is in absolutely no position to throw stones. It is actively hunting down Americans living abroad and extorting all or a sizeable portion of their life savings even though in almost every case no taxes are owed. Canada via the FATCA IGA is aiding and abetting the US in this endeavor. And yes I find that incredibly abhorrent. More so as myself and many individuals I know are the intended victims.

Getting back to the original case, I accept the strong probability that the Russian breakaway group was telling the truth when they denied creating and distributing the pamphlets. Why inflame the west against your cause? If indeed they did not do it, then it seems almost certain that the CIA did, their obvious intent being to inflame western sentiment against the Russian faction. It's not like the CIA was disbanded after the Bay of Pigs. 

As your response so clearly indicates; toss "Papier bitte" into the fray and a lot of people simply switch off their brain cells and buy whatever malarky is being shilled. John Kerry has long been a master hypocrite and this clearly re-enforces his status.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> eMacMan, your own post is grotesque. Comparing this anti-Semitism to a tax matter, no mater how unfair, and calling it a pogrom is something I would hope you will reconsider.


I agree here, Macfury.

eMacMan, when you write "Not only is the US via the IRS involved in a very real pogrom ....", please recall that there were hundreds of innocent Russian Jews killed in these pogrom purges. Luckily, my grandparents fled their village outside of Kiev and made it to America. When they arrived, they were penniless, but alive and free to be Jewish. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

FWIW and it relates to the subject of my post rather than acting as a diversion, the flyers in question have now been demonstrated to be phony so that puts the CIA out front and center using the anti-semetic hook to further western interests.

And Dr. G before the IRS is finished perhaps as many as 6 million real Americans may also be penniless as well as more than twice that many individuals with extremely tenuous US connections. Many of these will be of retirement age and end up being a burden to the foreign governments which aided the IRS in its mass fleecing program.


----------



## FeXL

So, after $350 million of taxpayers money has been spent in Oregon on the Charlie Foxtrot, *not a single person has been signed up on the website.*

Beautiful...

The good news? The Feds are taking it over! Pot, kettle, anyone? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Feds to take over failed Cover Oregon exchange



> Those exchanges represent a monumental waste of a significant amount of taxpayer funds. The price tag approaches a billion dollars. Cronyism,. negligence, incompetence - federal prosecutors should be able to find several state bureaucrats to indict.


More:



> The sad truth is it is not a crime to be an idiot responsible for throwing taxpayer money away. Maybe if they threw a few people in jail, the appropriate lesson would be learned and greater care would be taken in spending tax dollars.
> 
> Or, elephants could learn to fly. Take your pick.


----------



## FeXL

BREAKING: Sources say Toyota fleeing CA, taking 5,000 jobs to more business-friendly Texas



> California’s inhospitable tax policies may have struck again, this time costing Los Angeles one of its largest employers. According to multiple sources close to the situation, Toyota will be relocating its US headquarters from the LA suburb of Torrance to Plano, Texas.
> 
> The company has yet to notify its employees of the news, but is expected to do so Monday, followed by a public announcement. While it’s unlikely that Toyota, which is ranked 8th on Fortune’s Global 500, will directly cite taxes as the reason for its relocation, it should come as little surprise that the financial burden of operating in California – both on the corporation and its employees personally – played a major role.


Hey, good for Texas _and_ California...

More:



> It wouldn’t be the first time. Nissan made a similar exodus in 2006, finding a more welcoming home for its US headquarters in Tennessee, where local and state governments rolled out the tax incentive red carpet. Honda too has shifted its headquarters from Carson, CA to Marysville, Ohio...


----------



## FeXL

Down, down, down...

Public Preference for a GOP Congress Marks a New Low in Obama’s Approval



> Registered voters by 53-39 percent in the national survey say they’d rather see the Republicans in control of Congress as a counterbalance to Obama’s policies than a Democratic-led Congress to help support him. It was similar in fall 2010, when the Republicans took control of the House of Representatives and gained six Senate seats.


Yeah, it's a poll. So show me one where the numbers are opposite this one...


----------



## FeXL

US tax dollars at work.

Your Latest Obama Golf Tab: $3 Million Plus



> Of course, Obama threw in “official” events at each stop so he could claim the flights were justified. *While in California he did an event on local drought conditions and met with Jordan’s King Abdullah, who actually flew out from Washington to see the president.* Then Obama played golf for three days with friends who had flown in to join him.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

White House Wants Chinese-Style ID System For Internet Users



> Testing is set to begin next month on a pilot program that could lead to the introduction of a Chinese-style ID system for Internet users, an “identity ecosystem” that critics fear would create a backdoor to government regulation of the world wide web.


Further:



> The White House’s “National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace” would replace the current system of using passwords to access sensitive online accounts with something akin to a biometric ID card that would link one individual to all their government services, such as food stamps, welfare as well as a myriad of other things like mortgage applications and applications for licenses.
> 
> “The original proposal was quick to point out that this isn’t a federally mandated national ID. *But if successful, it could pave the way for an interoperable authentication protocol that works for any website, from your Facebook account to your health insurance company,*” writes Meghan Neal, warning that the proposal is “a scary can of worms to open”.


M'bold.

It's not a conspiracy if it's happening...


----------



## Macfury

I heard today that the Canadian stock market was up on "bullish hiring news from the US. Looking at US numbers, I can see that stockbrokers must be idiots. The improved numbers are the result of people leaving the work force.

Job growth accelerates, but unemployed left in lurch - Outside the Box - MarketWatch



> *Job growth accelerates, but unemployed left in lurch
> Opinion: Labor-market sentiment grim as 800,000 leave the labor force*
> 
> By Adam Hersh
> 
> The pace of U.S. job creation accelerated in April as employers added 288,000 jobs — the fastest job growth so far this year, according to a report released today from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, or BLS.
> 
> A strengthening labor market in April and the steady pace of employment growth seen in recent months shown in today’s survey of employers sends a contradictory signal from that shown in the survey of households also released in today’s BLS report.
> 
> Although the unemployment rate dropped sharply to 6.3% in April down from 6.7% in March, this change was not the result of more people finding work, but rather was driven by the 800,000 people who exited the labor force last month, and the corresponding drop in the number of unemployed people by 733,000.
> 
> Comparing the pace of job growth today with that of previous economic recoveries illustrates the strength of the labor-market recovery.


----------



## FeXL

It's amazing how the left spins this sort of stuff.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I heard today that the Canadian stock market was up on "bullish hiring news from the US. Looking at US numbers, I can see that stockbrokers must be idiots. The improved numbers are the result of people leaving the work force.
> 
> Job growth accelerates, but unemployed left in lurch - Outside the Box - MarketWatch


A trick they no doubt learned from the Reagan regime! Demoblobs and Republirats are equally adept at this sort of statistical manipulation.


----------



## FeXL

The New Nazis



> Change the word “conservatives” to “Jews” or “blacks” and you have a hate crime prosecuted by the DOJ.


Don't even click on the Salon link. The SOB's don't deserve the traffic. The headline & above comment says it all...


----------



## FeXL

Interesting, interesting. Wasn't aware of this.

SOMETHING HUGE JUST HAPPENED; MAINSTREAM MEDIA IGNORING IT



> *Michigan Marks the 34th State Necessary to Commence a Constitutional Convention*
> 
> The following news alert conveys what is perhaps the most important development in these United States of America this year … this decade … this millennium. Truly, it does not get any bigger when the appropriate legal mechanisms have been triggered to initiate a Constitutional Convention. The upshot of this extremely profound and unparalleled initiative implemented by 34 states is as nation-transforming as it is highly consequential for every American citizen.


----------



## FeXL

Further on all those sign-ups to the Charlie Foxtrot...

Confirmed: Many of Obamacare's 'Eight Million Enrollments' are Duplicates



> We've been throwing cold water on the administration's so-called exchange "enrollment" figures for months, and for good reason: They're incomplete to the point of deception. The Washington Post reported back in November that official tabulations were including anyone who's "selected a plan," which is the equivalent of placing an item in a virtual shopping cart online, regardless of whether the check-out and payment steps ever took place.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Doc shock rocks the mainstream media



> It’s an epochal event when the _New York Times_ formally acknowledges something ObamaCare critics have been saying all along: _you will not be able to keep your doctor if you like your doctor._ ”Doc shock,” the third horseman of the ObamaCare apocalypse – riding hard on the heels of insurance cancellations and rate shock – galloped through the Grey Lady’s pages on Monday


Further:



> _“We have to break people away from the choice habit that everyone has,” said Marcus Merz, the chief executive of PreferredOne, an insurer in Golden Valley, Minn., that is owned by two health systems and a physician group. “We’re all trying to break away from this fixation on open access and broad networks.”​_
> *Give up your nasty “choice habits” and everything will be fine, America!* Of course you weren’t told you’d have to cut back on that ten-choices-a-day habit when ObamaCare was shoved through Congress. No, you were told the exact opposite: if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Obama and the rest of his con artists savaged anyone who tried to tell you the truth.


M'bold.

Fools! All of you who want choice, selection, variety: heretics, all!! You should consider yourselves fortunate to have any medical care at all! No, really...

And, this little gem:

Obamacare Contractor Pays Workers to DO NOTHING – Sit at Computer & Press Refresh



> The company is being paid by the government to process paper applications of those signing up for Obamacare. But, they are just sitting at their desk most of the day.
> 
> _“There are some weeks that a data entry person would not process an application… They’re told to sit at their computers and hit the refresh button every ten minutes.”​_


Where the F do I sign up...


----------



## eMacMan

Perhaps Washington could try following its own advice. Yeah I know the odds against that one are astronomical. 

White House urges dialogue, not intimidation in China rig dispute


----------



## FeXL

One traffic-ticket camera kickback scheme hits a red light



> Those big, ugly early birds began circling over the corporate headquarters of the revenue-camera industry last week when federal prosecutors announced that felony corruption charges had been filed against the Chicago city official in charge of one of the world’s largest red-light camera operations. More dominoes are expected to fall as FBI agents take the investigation to other cities.
> 
> Since New York City became the first to install cameras at intersections two decades ago, the devices have metastasized like cancer, blighting intersections from coast to coast. Municipal managers everywhere assume the familiar grave tone to explain that these devices are for the public good. “If it saves just one life,” they say, trying to keep a straight face, “it’s worth it.”
> 
> It sounds so plausible. Traffic tickets are deeply unpopular, so when a city writes 600,000 of them, as Chicago did last year, the cameras must yield great safety benefits. Transportation officials produce charts in bright colors, with graphs and accompanying texts to show that streets are safer than ever. It’s mostly fibs, stretchers and other misrepresentations of the facts.


----------



## FeXL

Mmmm...Sriracha Sauce...

Sriracha CEO Compares California to Communist Vietnam, Texas Officials to Court Company



> According to Huy Fong Foods CEO, David Tran, the city’s over zealous persecution of the 30 year old California plant reminds him of growing up in Communist Vietnam.
> 
> *“Today, I feel almost the same. Even now, we live in (the) USA, and my feeling, the government, not a big difference," he said.*
> 
> At a local city council meeting, the New York Times reported that Tran asked, “Why do you want to shut me down...I’m not sure why the U.S.A. lets local government do stupid things like this.


M'bold.

Good on Texas...


----------



## eMacMan

Anyone who has seen Common Core math would have to agree that Common Core is, if that is even possible, dumber than Bushes "No Child Left Behind."

Apparently Common Core is so idiotic that it drove this Republirat bat 5h!t crazy.



> Over the past few months, the new U.S. education standard known as the "Common Core" has attracted its fair share of negative attention by opponents.
> But Florida Republican State Rep. Charles Van Zant took the Common Core critique to a new level by claiming that the educational initiative promoted by the Obama administration will turn your children "homosexual."
> Van Zant made the comments at an Orlando education conference back in March, but the video of his remarks went viral on Tuesday. Van Zant told his audience that the American Institutes for Research (AIR), that implements the Common Core in Florida, "will promote double-mindedness in state education and attract every one of your children to become as homosexual as they possibly can."
> ....


Florida Lawmaker Warns Common Core Will Turn Children 'Homosexual'


----------



## FeXL

Obama on Benghazi: 'It's Not Serious'



> At a 60-person Democratic fundraiser Monday night, President Barack Obama told donors that debates over scandals such as Benghazi and Obamacare are pointless.
> 
> "The debate we're having now is about what, Benghazi? Obamacare? And it becomes this endless loop. It's not serious. It's not speaking to the real concerns that people have," said Obama.


How can anybody be this f'ing disconnected from reality...


----------



## FeXL

Did the Obama administration defraud purchasers of GM shares?



> When a controlling shareholder in a corporation sells shares to the public, and the corporation subsequently discloses damaging information known to it at the time of the sale, the SEC normally gets to work investigating a possible crime. Withholding such data can be a crime, defrauding investors by withholding material information.
> 
> It would appear that something like that happened when the federal government sold GM shares to the public. In the private sector, it would be time to call in the criminal defense lawyers.


----------



## FeXL

Clinton team begged Dems to to protect Hillary at Benghazi hearings



> Do you remember Democrats saying that Benghazi was a non-issue, a political circus that Republicans were pushing because they're extreme and crazy?
> 
> Hillary Clinton, it would appear, begs to differ.


----------



## eMacMan

A couple of timely Ted Rall cartoons.


----------



## FeXL

How come we don't hear numbers about the Charlie Foxtrot any more?

The administration has quietly stopped releasing ObamaCare enrollment numbers



> In other words, the Obama administration doesn’t really know what’s going to happen with the trajectory of the enrollment numbers — and they don’t really want _us_ to find out, especially not before the midterms while they still have that awesome 8 million “mission accomplished” number to trumpet. I suppose we shouldn’t expect anything less from The Most Transparent Administration, _Evah._


Yup...


----------



## eMacMan

A fairly good article on Jim Bopp's challenge to FATCA.

A couple of comments: I suspect that the Republicans Overseas involvement has more to do with protecting the asse(t)s of a handful of super rich contributers. To be blunt the Republicans were not in the least concerned about preserving the Constitution during the Bushwhacker regime.

Why on earth was this not launched over a year ago? It was clear by then, that there was no way Obama or the Senate would allow the repeal of FATCA. 

Still better late than never and if Mr. Bopp successfully saves the financial lives of 6-8 Million Americans and another 6-8 million non-Americans caught in the FATCA net then, whatever his motives, he will be a real hero in my eyes.

Critics Mount Constitutional Attack on Dreaded FATCA Tax Regime



> ......
> Leaders in the fight against FATCA vowed to take the challenge all the way to the Supreme Court if needed. “Seeking legal rather than legislative remedy on behalf of Americans living abroad before the scheduled July 1 full implementation of the law is the only available course for now,” Republicans Overseas leader Solomon Yue told the _Times_. He is also a member of the Republican National Committee, which adopted a resolution advocating repeal of FATCA for a wide range of reasons.
> 
> “FATCA violates citizens' right to privacy,” Yue explained in an interview with a Swiss financial publication. “Personal financial data transferred from foreign banks to the IRS violates the Fourth Amendment which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant.
> 
> However, even living abroad, a U.S. citizen still is protected by our Constitution. Using an IGA (Intergovernmental Agreement) between the U.S. government and a foreign government as a license for a warrantless search is unconstitutional.”
> 
> He also blasted the executive branch’s usurpation of power. Especially troubling, Yue added, is the fact that thousands of Americans living abroad — the vast majority of them in the middle class — are being forced by FATCA to surrender their citizenship. And because the new tax regime imposes draconian mandates and penalties on foreign banks, U.S. citizens worldwide are being shut out of foreign banking systems, with financial institutions preferring to steer clear of Americans to avoid the infamous IRS and compliance with FATCA.
> 
> For Yue, the disaster has a special significance. “I was born in Shanghai and lived under Chinese Communist tyranny,” he explained in the interview when discussing his successful effort to have the Republican Party stand up against FATCA. “For me, U.S. citizenship is freedom and when I read that Americans were forced to renounce their citizenship, it hit a raw nerve.”
> 
> 
> ......


----------



## CubaMark

_An interesting Reddit thread on the alliance between Christian groups and Republicans in the USA:_

*ELI5: Why do most Christian groups/people align themselves with the Republican party in the USA when the core beliefs of the religion seem to contradict those of the party?*


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _An interesting Reddit thread on the alliance between Christian groups and Republicans in the USA:_
> 
> *ELI5: Why do most Christian groups/people align themselves with the Republican party in the USA when the core beliefs of the religion seem to contradict those of the party?*


Are you just being provocative or do you really not understand this?


----------



## CubaMark

Oh, Terribly sorry, ehMac thread god. I did not mean to blaspheme. I thought only that a post relevant to the topic might be of interest to your minions. Please, sir, do not abuse me for my honest trespass.


----------



## MacGuiver

CubaMark said:


> _An interesting Reddit thread on the alliance between Christian groups and Republicans in the USA:_
> 
> *ELI5: Why do most Christian groups/people align themselves with the Republican party in the USA when the core beliefs of the religion seem to contradict those of the party?*


I think the opening poster on that page may be confused as to what constitutes Christian core beliefs.
As a Christian, I'd justify voting Republican though they are by no means the poster child of Christian virtue but they'd do far less harm than the Democrats.
One of the biggest Christian issues is Sanctity of Human Life. The Democrats are the party of death in this department with abortion enshrined as a virtue, promotion of it abroad and its ugly cousin euthanasia waiting in the wings. More unborn children are killed in a single day in the US than criminals have been executed for serious crimes in the past 40 years. So even if I'm opposed to the death penalty for criminals, the death toll from abortion puts it low on my list of voting issues. Abortion has continued under Republican rule but they are the only party with any voices against it. If change in laws is to come to limit or end it altogether Republicans offer the only hope.
For me voting Democrat would be like justifying a vote for the nazis because they're generous with welfare cheques and social programs in spite of the death camps. 

That said, unfettered social programs are not a Christian principle. 


> For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.





> But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.


So yes it is good to help those who are incapable of working but its not a Christian virtue to pay those that simply refuse to work. That is a growing concern in the US and socialistic governments tend to exacerbate the problem pandering for votes to those wanting "free" goodies.

Regarding war, there is such thing as just cause in Christianity though I don't feel Iraq qualified for that status nor did the Church at the time. Right now a just action might be sending troops to free the 200+ girls kidnapped by Islamic terrorists in Nigeria. If a war broke out with North Korea it could be justified in my mind to free the people imprisoned, starving and suffering terrible abuse within its borders. Stopping Hitler or forceful spread of communism would have also been justified when all other peaceful means fail. 

Another big issue for practicing Christians is what party is going to protect your religious liberty? The Democrats score poorly in this regard as of late and are becoming increasingly hostile towards religious freedom and diametrically opposed to Christian values. You see it in the Health care mandate forcing religious institutions to fund birth control and abortifacients. Increasingly graphic and even obsene sexual education curriculums to younger and younger children. The push for gay marriage and the open hostility toward anyone that takes the biblical view that marriage is between a man and a woman. Pushes to legalize drugs and other social ills. Their moral compass needs a reset.

Those are some of the reasons I could never vote Democrat in good conscience or Liberal/NDP for that matter.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Oh, Terribly sorry, ehMac thread god. I did not mean to blaspheme. I thought only that a post relevant to the topic might be of interest to your minions. Please, sir, do not abuse me for my honest trespass.


Yeah, you didn't read it or even think about it when you posted it and you have no opinion on it. 

That line is getting a little tired, CM.


----------



## FeXL

I hope he doesn't wonder why his popularity is hitting new lows...

Thanks, Obama! As Vets Died, $10M in Bonuses Were Doled Out at Phoenix VA



> _The Phoenix VA hospital dished out $10 million in bonuses, *even as staff members fudged patient wait-time records to qualify for extra cash* and veterans died while waiting for care, according to newly revealed records.
> 
> During the past three years, 4,188 bonuses were doled out to more than 2,150 staff members at every level, from doctors and nurses to secretaries and cleaners, the Arizona Republic reported.
> 
> The payouts increased exponentially during Sharon Helman’s tenure as director, which began in February 2012. In 2011, bonuses totaled $2.5 million — then surged to $3.5 million in 2012 and $3.9 million in 2013.​_


Bold from the link.


----------



## Dr.G.

"I hate to hear people say this Judge will vote so and so, because he is a Democrat -- and this one so and so because he is a Republican. It is shameful. The Judges have the Constitution for their guidance; they have no right to any politics save the politics of rigid right and justice when they are sitting in judgment upon the great matters that come before them." - Mark Twain, letter to San Francisco Alta California, February 19, 1868


----------



## Dr.G.

.


----------



## eMacMan

Stumbled across this during my 15 minute stroll through the lame stream.

I suspect what he is really sorry for is that the retaliations became public knowledge.



> WASHINGTON (AP) — A top official at the Veterans Affairs Department says he is sorry that VA employees have suffered retaliation after making complaints about poor patient care, long wait times and other problems.
> 
> James Tuchschmidt, the No. 2 official at the Veterans Health Administration, the VA's health care arm, apologized on behalf of the department at a congressional hearing Tuesday night.
> "I apologize to everyone whose voice has been stifled," Tuchschmidt said after listening to four VA employees testify for nearly three hours about VA actions to limit criticism and strike back against whistleblowers. "That's not what I stand for. I'm very disillusioned and sickened by all of this."
> 
> A federal investigative agency said Tuesday it was examining 67 claims of retaliation by VA supervisors against employees who filed whistleblower complaints — including 25 complaints filed since June 1, after a growing health care scandal involving long patient waits and falsified records at VA hospitals and clinics became public.
> 
> The independent Office of Special Counsel said 30 of the complaints about retaliation have passed the initial review stage and were being investigated further for corrective action and possible discipline against VA supervisors and other executives. The complaints were filed in 28 states at 45 separate facilities, Special Counsel Carolyn Lerner said.
> 
> Instead of using information provided by whistleblowers as an early warning system, the VA often "has ignored or attempted to minimize problems, allowing serious issues to fester and grow," Lerner told the House Veterans' Affairs Committee hearing. Worse, officials have retaliated against whistleblowers instead of investigating their complaints, she said.


VA apologizes to whistleblowers facing retaliation - seattlepi.com


----------



## FeXL

The Bear Is Loose



> “The bear is loose!” President Obama has been saying, whenever he leaves the White House to visit Starbucks, or sandwich shops, or burger joints, or BBQ shacks, or neighborhood diners, in his increasingly rote and pathetic attempts to “connect” with “real people.” Obama, we have been told, is frustrated, “restless,” bored with the responsibilities and chores of office. He thinks of himself as the bear—intimidating, wild, untamed, roving—escaping his den. But he is flattering himself. *Obama is not the bear. He is the cub: aimless, naïve, self-interested, self-indulgent, irresponsible, irresolute. The bear is in Moscow.*


M'bold.

Brilliant.


----------



## FeXL

That's gonna leave a mark on the Charlie Foxtrot...

Court Of Appeals Throws Out ObamaCare Subsidies On Federal Exchange



> So basically anyone who gets their ObamaCare on the federal exchange, which is a lot if not most, can't get subsidies. This would be a death blow to ObamaCare.


----------



## eMacMan

Makes sense as Vader is the only one of the lot who might turn away from the dark side.

Americans Prefer Darth Vader Over Every. Single. 2016. Hopeful.



> Darth Vader is more popular than Obama, Congress, and every single 2016 presidential hopeful as of Wednesday.
> The results of a comparison of the net favorability ratings of Star Wars characters and U.S. political figures, published in The Washington Post, suggest Americans would choose a fictional evil villain as president over Hillary Clinton, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Emperor Palpatine, Paul Ryan, Rick Perry, Bobby Jindal, Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Andrew Cuomo, Ted Cruz, Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Martin O’Malley, Jeb Bush, Joe Biden, Rick Santorum, John Boehner, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell and, of course, Congress — in that order.


----------



## FeXL

Always "Do as I say, not as I do..."

Clown Show: WH Slams Use of Anonymous Sources, Schedules Briefing With Anonymous Sources Moments Later



> Complaints from White House press secretary Josh Earnest on Monday about anonymous news sources prompted a testy exchange with reporters who noted that administration officials regularly demand anonymity.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

'Massive vulnerabilities to rampant waste and fraud': 11 out of 12 fake applications for Obamacare were accepted in official sting



> *In 11 out of 12 instances secret shoppers employed by the federal government were able to obtain health care coverage and subsidies through Obamacare's federal exchange using fake information, a government agency revealed yesterday.*
> 
> Federal investigators from the Government Accountability Office posing as prospective Obamacare applicants were able to successfully enroll in the federal marketplace over the phone and online by providing fictitious Social Security Numbers and proof of income, GAO reports.
> 
> *What's more, fake enrollees were able to qualify for a combined total of $2,500 a month in tax subsidies to pay for their newly acquired health plans, the agency says, or $30,000 a year.*
> 
> *'Ironically, the GAO has found Obamacare is working really well – for those who don’t exist,' *Sen. Orrin Hatch said in a statement upon reading the agency's report.
> 
> 'These appalling findings not only question the validity of their numbers but show this poorly drafted law’s massive vulnerabilities to rampant waste and fraud.'


----------



## FeXL

When You Work for the Government, You Can Watch Porn and Falsify Documents — and Still Keep Your Job



> California Republican Darrell Issa wanted to know how much porn an EPA employee could watch while being paid on the taxpayers’ dime… before he was fired.
> 
> Apparently, the amount is limitless.
> 
> One such employee who is still presently working with the EPA was found with over 7,000 individual pornography files on his _government_ computer.


Yep, there's a surprise...

More:



> Renee Page, who is the director of the EPA’s Office of Administration, was using her government office, government email and paid time to help facilitate the growth of her online retail shop.
> 
> She was also found to have hired 17 of her own family to the EPA, using the agency’s budget to pay them.
> 
> Instead of being confronted about her obvious indiscretion and nepotism, Page was actually awarded a $35,000 cash prize known as the Presidential Rank Award for her “exceptional service” in 2010.


----------



## FeXL

One Third Poorer.



> The typical American household is poorer under O-hole. At the median point (half above, half below):
> - The inflation-adjusted (real) net worth of the typical household was $87,992 in 2003.
> - In 2013 it is $56,335....a 36% decline. You can thank the Democrats (C) and Barry Whatever-his-real-name is for that.


Because, Bush!!!

Love the quote from Churchill. Headed to my sig box in the not too distant future...


----------



## FeXL

Well, isn't this interesting...

Some editor at a division of Simon & Schuster doesn't want to publish a book because "The Right" might actually use the truth to pin Obama's ears back.

Wow: Publisher Simon & Schuster Passes On Book From Bergdahl’s Platoon Mates Because It Could Be “Used Against Obama”…

However, mere days later, she becomes part of a pre-planned "downsizing" that has absolutely no relation to her head up her backside comments.

Editor who rejected book to protect Obama sacked

Riiiiight...


----------



## margarok

Oops...


----------



## FeXL

Again, slowly but surely, the truth is coming out.

Exclusive–Benghazi Security Contractors: About 25 Americans Are Still Alive Because We Broke 'Stand Down' Order



> The Obama administration, the CIA, and even some congressional committees—they all said there “was no 'stand down' order.”
> 
> But now five men who helped ward off the terrorists that attacked U.S. diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, Libya two years ago say it's only because they defied such an order that as many as 25 Americans are alive today.
> 
> “There’s quite a few—the soft-skins, we call them, or the non-shooters,” Kris “Tanto” Paronto, one of the security contractors that fateful evening, said in a phone interview on early Monday afternoon. “They’re all still working. I can’t give their names out or give their call signs out. The only ones I can are like me and Oz and Tig who have come out. We’re all on board with the project and we are all a team together, but some want to remain anonymous.
> 
> "As far as the numbers, you’ve got—and I’m going to be approximate—but there’s about 25 people that came out there and then there’s however many that left from Tripoli from the State Department when we got there," Paronto continued. "There’s a lot of them. I haven’t stayed in touch with all of them, and haven’t felt the need to. But a lot of them are staffers for the most part. A lot of them are still working.”


Further:

"Who do you think gives orders 2 a Four Star General to stand down?"


----------



## FeXL

And, just in case you shop stateside or with their Canadian affiliates.

Election Cycle political donations, as reported by the Center for Responsive Politics.


----------



## FeXL

Well, there's a surprise...

Desperate Democrats Unveil Benghazi Website to ‘Drown Out Any Potential Leaks With a Flood of Information’



> We’re just sure this taxpayer-funded website will provide a flood of reliable information, although at least the media now has a go-to source to finally start reporting on the 2012 terror attack.
> 
> ...
> 
> So Democrats are actually so concerned about taxpayer dollars that they’ve unveiled a taxpayer-funded website to drown out Republicans actually doing their jobs. Got it.
> 
> Curiously absent from the Democrat misinformation site is this bombshell report from Monday.
> 
> ...
> 
> An obvious cover-up like this would normally merit saturation coverage from the media, but they’ve been absent on this story for two years. Yet you can be assured they’ll happily regurgitate the Democrat propaganda throughout the hearings.


----------



## FeXL

Well, this is a week old now but interesting in the light that Holder is now resigning.

Obama DOJ Refuses to Release Fast and Furious Docs



> The “most transparent administration in history” is once again revealing the rank hypocrisy of President Obama’s assessment. In a motion filed Monday night, lawyers from the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) asked U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson to delay the transfer of documents related to the Fast and Furious gun-running scandal to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, until after her rulings requiring that transfer can be appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. If their bid is successful, it could push the appeals process past the Obama administration’s time in office. *In short, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder is trying to run out the clock.*


M'bold.

No small irony there...


----------



## eMacMan

For those who have any doubts whatsoever that ISIS is simply a bunch of thugs recruited, trained and armed by the CIA, we have this:

Harpo asking the US how Canada can get involved in attacks on Iraq and Syria. Before that is even leaked to the news media, ISIS threatens to attack Canada, conveniently giving him the excuse he so desperately needs to funnel even more Canadian funds to his corporate controllers.


----------



## FeXL

Applies just as appropriately north of the border...

DAVID LETTERMAN'​S TOP 10 REASONS TO VOTE DEMOCRAT

This one resounded with me:



> # 9. I vote Democrat because I believe oil companies profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon at 15% isn't.


----------



## Macfury

Looks like Obama will have his ass handed to him in November. Looking forward!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Looks like Obama will have his ass handed to him in November. Looking forward!


We shall see, Macfury.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see, Macfury.


Since America's prosperity is behind it, and the Democrats are driving the country to ruin, that makes perfect sense.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Since America's prosperity is behind it, and the Democrats are driving the country to ruin, that makes perfect sense.


It matters not which of the two parties is in power - they're two sides of the same coin. The only major difference is in the degree of lunacy, particularly as it pertains to social policy.

Neither side is going to address any of the structural issues that afflict U.S. "democracy". 

Our favourite go-to guy for "how a politician should act", Uruguay's President Mujica, recently noted:

_People who like money too much ought to be kicked out of politics, Uruguayan President José Mujica told CNN en Español in an interview posted online Wednesday.

“We invented this thing called representative democracy, where we say the majority is who decides,” Mujica said in the interview. “So it seems to me that we [heads of state] should live like the majority and not like the minority.”

Dubbed the “World’s Poorest President” in a widely circulated BBC piece from 2012, Mujica reportedly donates 90 percent of his salary to charity. Mujica’s example offers a strong contrast to the United States, where in politics the median member of Congress is worth more than $1 million and corporations have many of the same rights as individuals when it comes to donating to political campaigns.

“The red carpet, people who play -- those things,” Mujica said, mimicking a person playing a cornet. “All those things are feudal leftovers. And the staff that surrounds the president are like the old court.”

Mujica explained that he didn’t have anything against rich people, per se, but he doesn’t think they do a good job representing the interests of the majority of people who aren’t rich.

“I’m not against people who have money, who like money, who go crazy for money,” Mujica said. “But in politics we have to separate them. We have to run people who love money too much out of politics, they’re a danger in politics… People who love money should dedicate themselves to industry, to commerce, to multiply wealth. But politics is the struggle for the happiness of all.”

Asked why rich people make bad representatives of poor people, Mujica said: “They tend to view the world through their perspective, which is the perspective of money. Even when operating with good intentions, the perspective they have of the world, of life, of their decisions, is informed by wealth. If we live in a world where the majority is supposed to govern, we have to try to root our perspective in that of the majority, not the minority.”_









(That's Mujica hanging out at his farm - his only residence - where he lives with his wife and 3-legged dog. No bodyguards. And no limo - he drives an old VW Beetle). (HuffPo)​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> It matters not which of the two parties is in power - they're two sides of the same coin.


Only to the degree that they espouse being "progressives."


----------



## FeXL

Cooked voting machines.

Chicagoland voting machine casts candidate’s vote for his Dem opponent



> Admitting his confidence in Cook County ballot integrity is shaken, State Representative Candidate Jim Moynihan (R-56), was shocked today when he tried to cast a vote for himself and the voting machine cast it for his opponent instead.


More:



> *While using a touch screen voting machine in Schaumburg, Moynihan voted for several races on the ballot, only to find that whenever he voted for a Republican candidate, the machine registered the vote for a Democrat in the same race.* He notified the election judge at his polling place and demonstrated that it continued to cast a vote for the opposing candidate’s party. Moynihan was eventually allowed to vote for Republican candidates, including his own race. It is unknown if the machine in question (#008958) has been removed from service or is still in operation.


M'bold.

Again, not a conspiracy if it's actually happening.

Pencils, paper ballots, photo ID. At least there's a hard record then...


----------



## FeXL

Yesssssss!

CBS buries own poll showing GOP ahead in generic ballot



> If the midterm election were held today, Republicans would likely experience a wave just shy of what was accomplished in 2010, according to a poll of likely voters from CBS.
> 
> Just don’t expect CBS to tout that poll. There was no mention of it Wednesday night on “CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley,” which aired when the poll was released, according the Media Research Center's Newsbusters blog. Even finding the poll on the website takes quite a bit of maneuvering. And there’s good reason for that.


Further:



> So the message seems to be: If you need a hug, you vote Democrat. But if you want someone to handle the issues, you vote Republican.


Related:

UPDATED: Registered Republicans Have 94,000-Vote Edge in Colorado’s Early Vote



> A candidate whose party is outpacing the competition by a 9.3-percentage-point margin, with 40 to 45 percent of the ballots counted, is in a pretty nice spot. Not rock-solid locked up, but in a nice spot.


----------



## FeXL

Sent to me in an email...



> While walking down the street one day a Corrupt Senator (that may be redundant) was tragically hit by a car and died.
> 
> His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
> 
> "Welcome to heaven," says St.. Peter.. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.."
> 
> "No problem, just let me in," says the Senator.
> 
> "Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from the higher ups. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."
> 
> "Really?, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the Senator.
> 
> "I'm sorry, but we have our rules."
> 
> And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
> 
> The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
> 
> Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They played a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and the finest wines and champagne.
> 
> Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who is having a good time dancing and telling jokes.
> 
> They are all having such a good time that before the Senator realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises.
> 
> The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens in heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him, "Now it's time to visit heaven...”
> 
> So, 24 hours passed with the Senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.
> 
> "Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity."
> 
> The Senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell."
> 
> So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell...
> 
> Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls to the ground.
> 
> The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulders.
> 
> "I don't understand," stammers the Senator. "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"
> 
> The devil smiles at him and says, "Yesterday we were campaigning..."


----------



## Macfury

Har!


----------



## eMacMan

It's election day. A couple of cartoons that capture it far better than the talking heads.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. Don't need voter photo ID. Nosiree...

EXCLUSIVE: Undercover video shows North Carolina poll workers offering ballots to ineligible impostor – TWENTY TIMES – putting voter ID battle on the front burner



> North Carolina election officials repeatedly offered ballots last week to an impostor who arrived at polling places with the names and addresses of 'inactive' voters who hadn't participated in elections for many years.
> 
> No fraudulent votes were actually cast: It was the latest undercover video sting from conservative activist James O'Keefe, whose filmmaking résumé reads like a target list of liberal causes.


More:



> Now O'Keefe has strolled into more than 20 voting precincts in Raleigh, Durham and Greensboro, N.C., proffering the names of people who seldom vote in order to test the integrity of the election process. It seems to have failed on a massive scale.
> 
> 'I just sign this and then I can vote?' he asked one poll worker. 'Yep,' came the reply.


Nice...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

N.Y. Dem. Senator admits: 'We knew' Obama lied about healthcare promise



> While appearing on Sunday's edition of ABC's "This Week," Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., admitted Democrats in the Senate knew Obama lied when he said Americans could keep their insurance, but that was apparently secondary to women's health issues.
> 
> "Do you feel misled by Obama?" Martha Raddatz asked.
> 
> Gillibrand responsed by saying that Obama "should have been more specific."
> 
> *"So were you misled?" Raddatz asked in a follow-up.
> 
> "No," Gillibrand said. "We all knew."*


M'bold.

Still, people will vote for the lying bastards...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Nope. Don't need voter photo ID. Nosiree...


Oh, how easy it is to distract people from the issues with an overhyped "crisis". Anything to keep the sheep in line...

_elections officials agree that any form of voter fraud hurts the integrity of the system. But there's no evidence to support the notion that thousands of voters line up every Election Day waiting to cast multiple or illegal ballots.

"It's incredibly rare," said Levitt, who has studied fraud cases across the country.

In his review of fraud allegations since 2000, Levitt verified 33 cases of "in-person voter fraud," which occurs when ineligible voters intentionally cast illegal ballots at polling places. This is the kind of fraud voter ID laws are designed to stop, either by requiring photo identification or, as in Ohio, a document verifying a home address.

Other studies have reached similar conclusions. The Government Accountability Office this year acknowledged the difficulty in tracking fraud complaints but found "few instances of in-person voter fraud."

A national public records search by News21, a project of the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University, found 10 cases of voter impersonation in 2012 among some 2,000 voter fraud allegations nationwide.

"While fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal," the group concluded._

(5 myths about voter fraud, early voting)​


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> Oh, how easy it is to distract people from the issues with an overhyped "crisis". Anything to keep the sheep in line...


Yes, let's look at a few of those so-called "distractions", shall we?

From this article, dated January 12, 2014:

Voter Fraud: We’ve Got Proof It’s Easy 



> New York City’s watchdog Department of Investigations has just provided the latest evidence of how easy it is to commit voter fraud that is almost undetectable. *DOI undercover agents showed up at 63 polling places last fall and pretended to be voters who should have been turned away by election officials*; the agents assumed the names of individuals who had died or moved out of town, or who were sitting in jail. In 61 instances, or 97 percent of the time, the testers were allowed to vote. Those who did vote cast only a write-in vote for a “John Test” so as to not affect the outcome of any contest. DOI published its findings two weeks ago in a searing 70-page report accusing the city’s Board of Elections of incompetence, waste, nepotism, and lax procedures.


And



> Shooting the messenger has been a typical reaction in other states when people have demonstrated just how easy it is to commit voter fraud. Guerrilla *videographer James O’Keefe had three of his assistants visit precincts during New Hampshire’s January 2012 presidential primary.* They asked poll workers whether their books listed the names of several voters, all deceased individuals still listed on voter-registration rolls. Poll workers handed out ten ballots, never once asking for a photo ID. O’Keefe’s team immediately gave back the ballots, unmarked, to precinct workers.


And



> Later in 2012, in Washington, D.C., one of *O’Keefe’s assistants was able to obtain Attorney General Eric Holder’s ballot even though Holder is 62 years old and bears no resemblance to the 22-year-old white man who obtained it merely by asking if Eric Holder was on the rolls.* But the Department of Justice, which is currently suing Texas to block that state’s photo-ID law, dismissed the Holder ballot incident as “manufactured.” The irony was lost on the DOJ that Holder, a staunch opponent of voter-ID laws, could have himself been disenfranchised by a white man because Washington, D.C., has no voter-ID law.


And



> In 1984, Brooklyn’s Democratic district attorney, *Elizabeth Holtzman, released a state grand-jury report on a successful 14-year conspiracy that cast thousands of fraudulent votes in local, state, and congressional elections.* Just like the DOI undercover operatives, the conspirators cast votes at precincts in the names of dead, moved, and bogus voters. The grand jury recommended voter ID, a basic election-integrity measure that New York has steadfastly refused to implement.


And



> In 2012, the son of Congressman Jim Moran, the Democrat who represents Virginia’s Washington suburbs, had to resign as field director for his father’s campaign after it became clear that he had encouraged voter fraud. *Patrick Moran was caught advising an O’Keefe videographer on how to commit in-person voter fraud.* The scheme involved using a personal computer to forge utility bills that would satisfy Virginia’s voter-ID law and then relying on the assistance of Democratic lawyers stationed at the polls to make sure the fraudulent votes were counted.


And



> After all, even a small number of votes can have sweeping consequences. *Al Franken’s 312-vote victory in 2008 over Minnesota senator Norm Coleman gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate majority of 60 votes, which allowed them to pass Obamacare.* Months after the Obamacare vote, a conservative group called *Minnesota Majority finished comparing criminal records with voting rolls and identified 1,099 felons — all ineligible to vote — who had voted in the Franken–Coleman race.* Fox News random interviews with ten of those felons found that nine had voted for Franken, backing up national academic studies that show felons tend to vote strongly for Democrats.
> 
> *Minnesota Majority took its findings to prosecutors across the state, but very few showed any interest in pursuing the issue. Some did, though, and 177 people have been convicted as of mid 2012 — not just “accused” but actually convicted — of voting fraudulently in the Senate race.*


And from this article dated January 12, 2012:

Voter Fraud: Dead People Cast Over 950 Ballots In South Carolina



> The Associated Press reports that *South Carolina’s attorney general, Alan Wilson, has notified the U.S. Justice Department of potential voter fraud in the Palmetto State this weekend.*
> 
> “In a letter dated Thursday, *Wilson says the analysis found 953 ballots cast by voters listed as dead.* In 71 percent of those cases, ballots were cast between two months and 76 months after the people died. That means they ‘voted’ up to 6 1/3 years after their death.”


All emphasis mine.

All of these incidences are not baseless accusations made by Joe Schmo off the street. In all cases they either have video footage or there are investigations conducted by law enforcement officials. These are only two articles of many that provide evidence of rampant voter fraud in the US.

Why is the left so afraid of voter ID? 

The argument that it disadvantages certain groups of people is a crock. The ID could be government issued & paid for by taxpayers. What's holding them back?

As to distracting voters from the issues, the Democrats would do well in this election to do just that...


----------



## CubaMark

Regardless, these are drops in the bucket over the U.S. electoral scene. 

A shame those so concerned with voter fraud now that a Black president is in power, were not at all concerned with widespread reporting of Republican-owned corporations whose voting machines were casting, shall we say, _interesting_ ballots in various races (and yes, I did see your (?) recent post on the Democrat who benefited from a voting machine error. *A* democrat.).

Nor were these same folks as up in arms about the fidelity of the ballot box when the Supreme Court gave G.W. Bush the Florida race... the infamous "hanging chad" debacle.

Nor are they at all concerned with Citizen United, corporate influence in U.S. elections, blah blah blah.

I say it again: Voter Fraud is a distraction, hyped to ridiculousness.


----------



## Macfury

Voter fraud is easily dealt with through the use of a voter ID. Why complain if somebody wants to correct it? You can bleat about your own election peeves, and deal with them next.




CubaMark said:


> Voter Fraud is a distraction, hyped to ridiculousness.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> Regardless, these are drops in the bucket over the U.S. electoral scene.


So, what's the thrust here? It's too small to worry about? As far as I'm concerned, if there is a single fraudulent vote that is one too many. And, in my prior post, I gave a perfect example of where it wasn't too small in Minnesota & Obamacare got passed. Is that acceptable to you?



CubaMark said:


> A shame those so concerned with voter fraud now that a Black president is in power, were not at all concerned with widespread reporting of Republican-owned corporations whose voting machines were casting, shall we say, _interesting_ ballots in various races (and yes, I did see your (?) recent post on the Democrat who benefited from a voting machine error. *A* democrat.).


This has nothing to do with skin colour. Why does the left always turn these sort of non-partisan issues into "racist"?



CubaMark said:


> Nor were these same folks as up in arms about the fidelity of the ballot box when the Supreme Court gave G.W. Bush the Florida race... the infamous "hanging chad" debacle.


Who are "these same folks"? I certainly can't speak for anyone else. Me? I still know very little about any voter fraud in the past. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't know anything about it. If there is legitimate criticism, then bring it. I don't want either side to win via voter fraud.



CubaMark said:


> Nor are they at all concerned with Citizen United, corporate influence in U.S. elections, blah blah blah.


Off topic. By all means, bring it up but not what I was addressing.



CubaMark said:


> I say it again: Voter Fraud is a distraction, hyped to ridiculousness.


Apparently, only if you're on the left side of the spectrum. It is a legitimate, non-partisan issue with measurable results that should be a concern to all parties involved. Or, is it only important if the right gets caught doing it? Then we get the hue & cry?


----------



## Macfury

Obama had his ass handed to him last night!


----------



## FeXL

It's a beautiful thing...


----------



## FeXL

In excess of a billion bucks a year & nobody knows where the hell Montana is...

Nice to see #CBC has trouble with geography as well as what's sexual harassment.


----------



## Macfury

Forbes Magazine Names Putin World's Most Powerful Person

That was before yesterday's electoral humiliation!


----------



## CubaMark

_Neil nails it here. A great (and very sad) commentary on American "democracy". What a huge waste of time. Worse: just when you thought Bachmann and Palin were starting to fade away, another crop of wing nuts arrives to keep the idiocy flowing._

*Republicans may have trouble making Washington's hogs 'squeal'*












> Joni Ernst, an adept at hacking testicles off hogs, is on her way to Washington, castration accoutrements in hand.
> 
> On Tuesday night she became the 51st Republican winner in the struggle for the United States Senate, pushing her party over the top and into control of the upper house of Congress.
> 
> Her victory speech, a modern classic, was a monument to intellectual despair. A call to mediocrity, rather than to arms.





> But it doesn’t matter. Because elections no longer have anything whatever to do with fact and everything to do with peddling homilies that reinforce existing biases and ignorance.
> 
> After touching lightly Tuesday night on a few of the nation’s problems, Ernst launched into a story about how her mother taught her values “not with a lecture or a book" — bookishness now having become an elitist thing — "but with plastic bread bags.”





> But the bread-bag story is the sort of up-by-the-bootstraps trope every politician here needs to carry around nowadays.
> 
> The subtext is that formal education, as opposed to good old common sense, is elitist, and that growing up on a fixed or low income (except for welfare or unemployment insurance) somehow confers a deep wisdom unavailable to the more affluent.
> 
> So treasured is that notion in modern America that during the last presidential election, even Ann Romney, wife of the ultimate one-per-center, had to come up with a story about their struggles as a young couple. They ate off an ironing board, or something.
> 
> Ernst wound up her victory speech describing “an America where no matter who your parents are or what neighbourhood you grew up in, you have the chance to succeed. An America where it doesn’t matter who you know, all that matters is how hard you work ...”
> 
> An imaginary place, in other words.


(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

Keep the bitter tears flowing, CM--I'm enjoying every drop!



CubaMark said:


> _Neil nails it here. A great (and very sad) commentary on American "democracy". What a huge waste of time. Worse: just when you thought Bachmann and Palin were starting to fade away, another crop of wing nuts arrives to keep the idiocy flowing._
> 
> *Republicans may have trouble making Washington's hogs 'squeal'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CBC)


----------



## CubaMark

The willingness of the deranged right to accept and embrace candidates with as much depth as a piece of paper continues to astound and disappoint me.

And, though I've stated this often before, the Democrats are no better. They'll still serve the interests of the 1%, they just won't do it while depriving women of abortion access or forcing communities to own guns.


----------



## Macfury

Your priorities are completely off my radar, CM. Haven't you progressives already tired of this meme of the 1%?

Read your own link on the Georgia story. Typically lefty cherry picking. The law does not apply to anyone who objects to owning a gun.




CubaMark said:


> The willingness of the deranged right to accept and embrace candidates with as much depth as a piece of paper continues to astound and disappoint me.
> 
> And, though I've stated this often before, the Democrats are no better. They'll still serve the interests of the 1%, they just won't do it while depriving women of abortion access or forcing communities to own guns.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Your priorities are completely off my radar, CM. Haven't you progressives already tired of this meme of the 1%?


Uh, no. Not so long as it remains relevant.



Macfury said:


> Read your own link on the Georgia story. Typically lefty cherry picking. The law does not apply to anyone who objects to owning a gun.


You could try reading in-depth. Further down in the story, we see this:



> Among the other efforts to broaden gun rights that have surfaced since the Newtown killings:
> 
> -- Spring City, Utah, passed an ordinance this year recommending that residents keep firearms, softening an initial proposal that aimed to require it.
> 
> -- Residents of tiny Byron, Maine, rejected a proposal last month that would have required a gun in every home. Even some who initially supported the measure said it should have recommended gun ownership instead of requiring it, and worried that the proposal had made the community a laughingstock. Selectmen of another Maine town, Sabbatus, threw out a similar measure. The state's attorney general said state law prevents municipalities from passing their own firearms laws anyway.


----------



## Macfury

So NOBODY passed a law requiring gun ownership. Thanks for confirming that.


----------



## FeXL

Amazing timing...

White House: Up to 1,500 more troops headed to Iraq



> This is the kind of thing that just _could_ wait until after the voters had cast their ballots in Tuesday’s crucial midterm elections.
> 
> On Friday, a Reuters report hit the wires which indicated that the White House planned to increase the number of American “combat advisors” in Iraq by an unknown number. The coming troop hike was characterized as “significant.”


Italics from the link.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot & those paper-thick progressives...

Obamacare Architect: Lack of Transparency Was Key Because ‘Stupidity Of The American Voter’ Would Have Killed Obamacare



> “*This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies*. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk rated subsidies, *if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed…* Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. *And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass…* Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”


M'bold.

Lying sacks of $h!t.

And the Dems wonder why, with this complete lack of respect for people, they lost their butts in the mid-terms? Jug Ears has said that they failed to get the message across. I think the message was loud & clear & all these "stupid" people just got tired of the drill...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Me? I still know very little about any voter fraud in the past. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't know anything about it. If there is legitimate criticism, then bring it. I don't want either side to win via voter fraud.


And then there are examples such as this:

_Kelli Jo Griffin is suing the state of Iowa to get back her right to vote, as she should. Here is her story, as told to the ACLU:_

On Election Day in 2013, I took my four children with me to watch me register to vote and cast my ballot in a city election in my small town in Iowa. Earlier that day, my daughter's class learned about the meaning of democracy and the importance of elections.

Two months after I cast my ballot as a civics lesson for my daughter, the Iowa Department of Criminal Investigation agents parked across the street from my house, questioned me, and eventually arrested me and charged me with voter fraud.

Let me explain: When I was convicted on a nonviolent drug charge in 2008, my defense attorney told me that once I served my probation, I would regain my right to vote automatically – correct information at the time. But Gov. Terry Branstad (*Ed: Republican, of course*) suddenly changed the rules in 2011, and now all citizens with a felony conviction lose their voting rights for life. Our Secretary of State Matt Schultz, in fact, has made this subversion of democracy a point of pride. He has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars hunting down and prosecuting people with past convictions who unknowingly registered or cast a vote.

Including me.

I explained that I did not know about the rule change, but the local county attorney insisted on prosecuting me, spending thousands of taxpayers' money to try to send me to jail – away from my husband and young children for up to 15 years. Knowing that I had not committed a crime, I withstood the crippling expense and emotional roller coaster of a trial instead of accepting a plea deal for a crime I knew I did not commit. Finally, three months later, I was acquitted by a jury of my peers. It only took them 40 minutes to come to that decision. I cried with relief as I heard the verdict.

I'm the mom of four wonderful children. I volunteer at my children's schools and a women's crisis center. I speak to domestic violence survivors to support and encourage them. I have overcome a lot in my life, including a destructive prior marriage and a dependency that led to the nonviolent felony drug conviction in 2008. I'm not proud of some parts of my history, but I am proud that I managed to turn my life around and find happiness in my family, my accomplishments, and what I can now offer my community.​
(Young Mother Arrested For Voting In Iowa | Crooks and Liars)​


----------



## Macfury

Crooks and Liars is the last place you should be looking for accurate information. There is no law barring people in Iowa with felony convictions from voting for life:



> Felons in Iowa must now pay all outstanding monetary obligations to the court in addition to completing their sentence and period of parole or probation. People convicted of a felony may then apply for restoration of the ability to vote.


State Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

Issuing a voter ID card to all legally registered voters would avoid problems like this one.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> And then there are examples such as this:


Please, in any way, shape or form, connect the dots between Democrats openly lying about Obamacare in order to push it past "stupid" voters and your interesting but completely unrelated anecdote.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Crooks and Liars is the last place you should be looking for accurate information. There is no law barring people in Iowa with felony convictions from voting for life:


When they tell you in the title of the website what you're about to read is a lie, how can we get upset when it happens?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Please, in any way, shape or form, connect the dots between Democrats openly lying about Obamacare in order to push it past "stupid" voters and your interesting but completely unrelated anecdote.


Dude, chill. This is the *American Political* thread. Not the *Evil Obamacare Must Die!* thread.

Why would you think that my post was related to yours, given that this thread covers a variety of topics, and my post is relevant to recently-discussed subject matter?


----------



## Macfury

On the decline of US news network MSNBC:



> In character terms, the problem is making Obama sympathetic and compelling when he appears not to want to be either of those things. In dramatic terms, the problem is that he seems inclined to shrink in the face conflict rather than rise to it. Who really is eager to watch the Obama show?


Wolff: MSNBC loses election


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> Why would you think that my post was related to yours, given that this thread covers a variety of topics, and my post is relevant to recently-discussed subject matter?


Uh, because you quoted me in your post?

Usually a fair indicator that you are responding directly to something I posted.

Unless this is just more lefty logic of which I am unaware...


----------



## CubaMark

My post was clearly related to earlier discussions on the issue of voter fraud. Why would you think it was related to your newly-introduced rant on Obamacare?


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

AG Office Contacted CBS to Rein in Sharyl Attkisson. Don’t Believe It? Read the Email For Yourself.



> Back in 2011, CBS-TV reporter Sharyl Attkisson had been reporting extensively on the “Fast and Furious” operation which began in 2009. The operation, which was overseen by U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice, involved letting weapons dealers sell guns illegally to suspected straw buyers.


More:



> Attkisson was trying to report on the Fast and Furious scandal, but claimed that the Obama administration was urging CBS to quash her stories about the topic (as well as others which made the White House uncomfortable). Naturally, many people viewed these claims as outlandish and paranoid. But as it turns out, Attkisson, who later resigned from CBS, was right.


----------



## Dr.G.

Moment in time: Dec. 1, 1955 -- Rosa Parks refuses to give up her seat on the bus 

Rosa Parks, the African-American civil rights activist, whose polite but adamant refusal to relinquish her ‘coloureds’ section seat so a standing white man could sit on a crowded Montgomery, Alabama city bus became an iconic moment in the civil rights movement and vaulted the quiet seamstress from anonymity to international recognition. Mrs. Parks was no accidental activist. She was already working for the NAACP. But her case and others, bus boycotts and marches, and courageous attempts by black children to attend all-white schools eventually swept away the vast repressive web of lawful Jim Crow segregation law. Fired from her job and unable to find work, Ms. Parks & her husband moved to Detroit two years after her arrest in Montgomery. On her death, a half-century after the iconic moment of quiet defiance, she became the first woman to lie in honour in the U.S. Capitol and the nations’ flags flew at half-staff. -- Paul Koring 

Rosa Parks refuses to give up her seat on the bus - The Globe and Mail


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Rosa Parks, the African-American civil rights activist...


I wonder how she'd view Ferguson and how things had devolved... <shakes his head>


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Here's a fun read on CIA torture. Just the highlights. 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...uesome-moments-in-the-cia-torture-report.html


----------



## Macfury

This is the result of a government too large to be accountable to either itself or its constituents. Time to scale back government power.



skippythebushkangaroo said:


> Here's a fun read on CIA torture. Just the highlights.
> 
> The Most Gruesome Moments in the CIA ‘Torture Report' - The Daily Beast


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> This is the result of a government too large to be accountable to either itself or its constituents. Time to scale back government power.


Not sure if that is the answer here. But, too be sure, the U.S is rife with power silos which do not care to be forthcoming with the administration. In the Kennedy era the CIA almost caused a war decision from the cabinet due to nondisclosure with the office of the President. I think its time to say bye bye to monolithic organisations such as the CIA. Additionally, and you may or may not agree here McFury, but there is a lot of immaturity in the U.S decision process and how it views itself in the world. This, more than the size of government may be the root issue here.


----------



## Macfury

In terms of torture, the US isn't by far the worst offender--and it still ha the capacity to blush over the indiscretions. I believe it's the size and scope of the government that allow these silos to operate independently.



Rps said:


> Not sure if that is the answer here. But, too be sure, the U.S is rife with power silos which do not care to be forthcoming with the administration. In the Kennedy era the CIA almost caused a war decision from the cabinet due to nondisclosure with the office of the President. I think its time to say bye bye to monolithic organisations such as the CIA. Additionally, and you may or may not agree here McFury, but there is a lot of immaturity in the U.S decision process and how it views itself in the world. This, more than the size of government may be the root issue here.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Bush & Cheney = war criminals


----------



## FeXL

Jug Ears has been in power for 6 years. You don't think he's part & parcel of this?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Jug Ears has been in power for 6 years. You don't think he's part & parcel of this?


Obama? Yup. War criminal.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

CubaMark said:


> Obama? Yup. War criminal.



LOL! Repubs!


----------



## CubaMark

skippythebushkangaroo said:


> LOL! Repubs!


Skip! Are you agreeing with me? Hard to keep up in here....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Skip! Are you agreeing with me? Hard to keep up in here....


Skip is an undiluted "progressive"--no surprise here.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Jug Ears has been in power for 6 years. You don't think he's part & parcel of this?


It was a report released by Diane Feinstein in a fit of pique over losing the Senate. It's an attempt to hobble the CIA following her downgrade.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo




----------



## SINC

Posting a graphic with type so small it is impossible to read provides little to the discussion.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Get new glasses


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Posting a graphic with type so small it is impossible to read provides little to the discussion.


SINC, it's a graphic that blames Obama for his derelection of duty.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

You repubs! Fuh sure.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> Obama? Yup. War criminal.


Well, in the absence of you presenting your definition of "War Criminal", yes. I believe that killing innocent civilians, women & children eminently qualifies him as such.

More than 2,400 dead as Obama’s drone campaign marks five years

Strikes & minimum people killed both up by nearly an order of magnitude, *minimum civilians killed up by nearly 50%*. I also believe that third number will have been heavily massaged.

Note that this news article is approaching a year in age and the totals are no longer accurate.

There is much current information available if you choose to look for it.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, about all those halo-wearing Democrats who "didn't know nuttin' 'bout waterboardin'..."

Senate Democrat Report on Torture Is Firm On Key Finding That Senate Democrats Never Heard Anything About This "Torture" Business



> _The leaders of the Senate and House Intelligence Committees and of both parties in Congress were briefed on the program more than 40 times between 2002 and 2009. But Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) tried to deny that she was told in 2002 that detainees had been waterboarded. That is simply not true. I was among those who briefed her.​_


Huh. 2009. Imagine that. A year after Jug Ears was elected...


----------



## Macfury

I'd authorize someone to use waterboarding if I thought I could save a city or a busload of kids.


----------



## eMacMan

The US system is corrupt from stem to core. The Bush Gang, makes the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazis, the Ruskies and the North Koreans all look pretty mild in comparison. OTOH Obushma did everything in his power to delay and water down the final report, not to mention allowing the practices to continue under his watch.

The good news is they did get someone to confess to crimes committed long after he was incarcerated. 

One thing we can be certain of there will be no charges laid. Hell even the Banksters have more to fear than this batch of low lifes.

The US is really at the final crossroad. Do they believe in the principals which form the nations foundation? Will they shore up that foundation or will they continue to erode it and take the road to total tyranny.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The US system is corrupt from stem to core. The Bush Gang, makes the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazis, the Ruskies and the North Koreans all look pretty mild in comparison.


No.


----------



## FeXL

Sums it up for me...


----------



## Macfury

If you extract information from someone, they tend to complain later. Obama's method leaves no room for complaints.


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Excellent article on rectal feeding. Bush and Cheney deserve a round or two. 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/re...lete-medical-practice-the-cia-used-as-torture


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Torture Inc. Surprised they didn't IPO. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-company-behind-cia-torture-2014-12


----------



## Macfury

Skippy, at least read the articles to which you link before posting.



skippythebushkangaroo said:


> Torture Inc. Surprised they didn't IPO.
> 
> The Company Behind CIA Torture - Business Insider


----------



## FeXL

That's gonna leave a mark on the Charlie Foxtrot...

BREAKING: DC Circuit Court Ruling Deals Massive Blow to Obamacare



> *Democrats in Congress passed a law that explicitly limited Obamacare subsidy eligibility to consumers who purchased plans on state-level exchanges.* They did so in order to coerce and bribe states into setting up their own marketplaces under the law. (Another attempt at coercion, mandatory Medicaid expansion, has been struck down 7-2 by the Supreme Court). Given the controversial law's unpopularity, a majority of states declined to establish exchanges, forcing the federal government to create the infamous federal version -- with Healthcare.gov as its centerpiece. Subsequent New York Times reporting indicated that HHS never expected to have to set up any exchange at all, let alone for 36 states. That's because they were laboring under the belief that the law's sticks and carrots would compel every state to implement marketplaces on their own. Many did not, and *the plain text of the law clearly states that anyone buying coverage through any system other than a state-based exchange would not be eligible to receive generous taxpayer subsidies*, which relieve much of the heavy cost burden for many consumers (even with the subsidies, many enrollees say they're struggling to pay).


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, the iron...

Whining Harvard Professors Discover Obamacare



> "Deplorable, deeply regressive, a sign of the corporatization of the university." That's what Harvard Classics professor Richard F. Thomas calls the changes in Harvard's health plan, which have a large number of the faculty up in arms.
> 
> ...
> 
> *The deepest irony is, of course, that Harvard professors helped to design Obamacare.* And Obamacare is the reason that these changes are probably necessary.


----------



## FeXL

Just. F'ing. Brilliant.

Obama proposes publicly funded community college for all



> Administration officials on a conference call with reporters Thursday evening said the funding details would come out later with the president's budget next month.


Sounds just another piece of legislation recently passed stateside, where "you have to approve it to find out what's in it".



> "It's something that we can accomplish, and it's something that will train our work force so that we can compete with anybody in the world," Obama said.


Hey, Jug Ears, you checked your unadjusted unemployment numbers lately? There are no freaking jobs...

Couple more things... First, not everyone needs to go to college/university. The world needs ditch diggers, too. Second, ultimately, whose going to pay for this? You guessed it, taxpayers. The Tennessee scholarship program mentioned in the article gets most of its funding from state lotteries. That ain't gonna happen with the feds. Third, what is this going to do to tuition rates? Yep, on top of already massive increases, the sky will now be the limit.


----------



## Macfury

Bang on. The massive increases in tuition are commensurate with increases in government programs to make it "affordable." I frequently speak to people in the construction field who are begging for people to take jobs offering $45,000 to start--however, the university grads working at Starbucks are still waiting for a company to offer them a job focusing on "gender equality and the Russian Revolution."

Post-secondary education has become cheap coin, while marketable skills command top dollar




FeXL said:


> Just. F'ing. Brilliant.
> 
> Obama proposes publicly funded community college for all
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds just another piece of legislation recently passed stateside, where "you have to approve it to find out what's in it".
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Jug Ears, you checked your unadjusted unemployment numbers lately? There are no freaking jobs...
> 
> Couple more things... First, not everyone needs to go to college/university. The world needs ditch diggers, too. Second, ultimately, whose going to pay for this? You guessed it, taxpayers. The Tennessee scholarship program mentioned in the article gets most of its funding from state lotteries. That ain't gonna happen with the feds. Third, what is this going to do to tuition rates? Yep, on top of already massive increases, the sky will now be the limit.


----------



## eMacMan

Noble Dreamer over at isaacbrocksociety.ca worded this better than I could have:


> Yessiree folks, there is a new form that Americans abroad will be required to file this coming tax season. The Individual Shared Responsibility Provision of the ACA “requires each individual to have qualifying health care coverage (known as minimum essential coverage) for each month, qualify for an exemption, or make a payment when filing his or her federal income tax return. The forms for reporting coverage, exemptions or making a payment with the federal income tax return can all be prepared and filed electronically.” (of course, expats cannot file electronically).
> 
> This is beyond belief! Is anyone in the Congress or the IRS paying attention at all? First, there is a form of insurance for which we are not eligible. Yet, we are _liable for a 3.8% tax_ to fund this insurance from investment income (much of which is likely earned outside the United States). Due to the married-filing-separately option chosen by most since we are married to “aliens, expats are proportionately more likely to have to pay this tax than Homelanders. And to top it all off, in true American style, if we fail to file this form to receive an exemption for insurance we cannot have yet can be taxed on there is a $600 fine.
> Try explaining this to a Homelander! You just cannot make this stuff up!


On another tack, it turns out that snowbirds are going to be at the top of the FATCA extortion hit list. Reason being is that most of them have US addresses and phone number listed with their banks or financial firms. This is the number one indicator that they are a US person so the banks are sending them letters demanding that they file W8s or W9s for each account. That also provides the bank with their TIN or SS number. The bank does not tell them this will result in all of their personal banking information being sent along to the CRA. Furthermore come June of 2015 the CRA will then pass that information along to the IRS. The IRS will then in turn attempt to extract those individuals life savings for having failed to file F(u)BARs, 8938s and 3520s on all of their various Canadian Bank accounts. Money earned and taxed in Canada. 

An interesting side note to the above. The lamestream would have us believe that the ISIS thugs have been hacking into CIA databases so I would imagine that the IRS database containing all that sensitive and previously private financial information would be a piece of cake for any third world thug. Of course if you read the IRS privacy statements, the IRS makes it very clear that they will share that information with all comers so hacking may not be at all relevant.

Another sidenote: By signing the IGA the Canadian Government has agreed to the removal of whatever protections the banks had from previous bilateral or international treaties. IOW that 30% (ante recently upped to 50%) with-holding on US sourced income may still be on the table, but treaty protections are not. The IRS can also level massive fines on the banks. The agreement has no mechanism for determining if a bank is complying with FATCA requirements. If the IRS says a bank is non-compliant that bank has little choice but to pay the IRS extortion demands. Luemi Bank in Israel is on the hook for $400 Million dollars. Of course Canadian Banks are extremely vulnerable to IRS extortion tactics because of their massive US holdings and investments. 

The irony is that the USA is the worlds #1 haven for international tax cheats and there is zero chance that they will live up to their end of reciprocity agreements.


----------



## FeXL

Seeing as this seems to more a political issue than anything else...

Nice little FYI. Love the cartoon.

The Keystone XL Pipeline



> Keystone XL is basically just another pipeline; a little longer and larger than most, but not unusually so, and it goes nowhere pipelines don’t already go. All it does is increase the capacity of the existing Keystone pipeline system, which has already transported over 550 million barrels of Canadian heavy crude from Alberta to the US. The crude Keystone XL delivers will make no difference to US crude imports; it will simply displace crude imports from elsewhere. And if Keystone XL doesn’t get built the crude it would have carried will go somewhere else, meaning that no CO2 emissions would be saved by not building it. (Although building it probably would save CO2 emissions because much of the Canadian crude that now moves south on trucks and rail tankers would pass through Keystone instead.)


----------



## FeXL

This outta be interestin'...

Report: Hillary Clinton Agrees to Testify Before Benghazi Panel



> Former Secretary of State and likely 2016 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has agreed to testify before the House Select Committee on the 2012 terrorist attack in Benghazi.


----------



## Macfury

That's a long way from "Who cares, it's behind us..."



FeXL said:


> This outta be interestin'...
> 
> Report: Hillary Clinton Agrees to Testify Before Benghazi Panel


----------



## FeXL

So, during the SOTU Jug Ears announced his intention to tax college savings, known as the 529 Plan. The response has been swift & bipartisan: a resounding "Up Yours"! 

Links to a couple of articles. Language warning for second one.

How Obama's 529 College Tax Plan Debacle Proves the Welfare State is Doomed




> To understand just how bad the politics of Obama’s now-withdrawn plan to tax 529 college savings were, think about it this way: Obama, under heavy pressure from both Democrats and Republicans, made a public show of pulling a proposal that already had no chance of passing.
> 
> Even as an inert fantasy proposal, it was so widely disliked that the White House had to back down.


Our Asshole President Drops His Asshole Proposal to Tax the Education Savings of the Middle Class



> It is becoming impossible to avoid the conclusion that Obama has a visceral hatred of America and its middle class which has largely (and positively) shaped its civic culture for 200+ years, but that won't stop the media from ignoring it anyway.


----------



## FeXL

My understanding is that one of the key issues from the impact study of the Keystone XL pipeline was its passing through the Sand Hills of Nebraska. I believe the line has be re-routed & this no longer is an issue. That said...

Senate approves Keystone pipeline despite veto threat



> The Senate voted Thursday to build the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, despite a long-standing veto threat from the White House.
> 
> After three weeks of debate on 41 amendments, the Senate voted 62-36 to pass a bill approving the north-south pipeline for Canadian oil that Republicans say will create thousands of U.S. jobs. *The tally was short of the 67 votes the Senate would need to override a presidential veto.*


M'bold.

I was not aware that a presidential veto could be overturned.


----------



## FeXL

Why Obama and the Saudis Like Low Gas Prices



> With no help from Barack Obama, the U.S. has launched an energy revolution, becoming the world’s leading oil and natural-gas producer. This has dismayed environmentalists and donors in and out of the Obama administration. After all, Obama bet big — really big — on green energy. The oil and gas boom is not the energy revolution Obama was looking for.


And, like most of the bastards:



> The White House, meanwhile, is only too happy to take credit for low gas prices and our decreased dependence on foreign oil. It’s also happy to take advantage of them. Not only does the president boast — as he did in his State of the Union address — about low gas prices, despite having done next to nothing to make them possible (nearly all new oil and gas production has been on state or private lands), he’s taking a bow for the economic benefits as if he deserves the credit.


However:



> Obama is constantly touting a newly low unemployment rate as if it were the result of his policies. The odd thing is that, as American Enterprise Institute economist Mark Perry notes, literally all of the job gains of the past seven years were generated by one state: oil-rich Texas.
> 
> *From December 2007 to December 2014, according to Perry, Texas has added 1.25 million payroll jobs and 190,000 non-payroll jobs.* Meanwhile, the other 49 states and D.C. combined have 275,000 fewer jobs than they did at the start of the recession. One wonders: *If Obama is responsible for all these job gains, why did he put them all in George W. Bush’s home state?*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Curiouser & curiouser...

STUNNING REVOLT: Senate Dems Block Fracking Regulations



> Democrats turned on one another Wednesday night and voted against an amendment that would have given the federal government the power to regulate hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, occurring on state and private lands.
> 
> New York Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand’s amendment to “modify the definition of underground injection” was soundly defeated 63 to 35, with 10 Democrats joining Republicans in opposing the measure.


More:



> “The failure to pass Sen. Gillibrand’s (D-NY) Amendment to S.1 is a clear message from the U.S. Senate of broad bipartisan support to keep regulation of hydraulic fracturing in the capable hands of the states and out of the grasp of the Obama Administration’s Environmental Protection Agency and their War on Fossil Fuels,” said Oklahoma Republican Sen. James Inhofe, chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Curiouser & curiouser...
> 
> STUNNING REVOLT: Senate Dems Block Fracking Regulations
> 
> 
> 
> More:


Like everything in Washington this has more to do with crossed palms than anything resembling common sense or right and wrong. 

That said companies doing hydraulic fracking need to be held totally to account when they contaminate ground water resources. If fracking makes ranch land unusable then the oil company gets to haul in water for the next 100 years. I would only make an exception if Dick Cheney owns the ranch.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney has now told the people of the United States if he is going to seek the nomination for the presidency once again.


----------



## Macfury

A lot of people are very sorry they did not vote for Romney last election. Obama seems uniquely suited to extending the nation's economic malaise. Romney's exit will help to clear the way for a conservative candidate. I would love to see Jeb Bush carried out like trash early on.


----------



## FeXL

Thoughts?

Wisconsin Governor moves ahead with drug-testing plan for welfare recipients



> Joining a handful of other states that have attached conditions to receiving government welfare benefits, Wisconsin may soon become the latest to compel some welfare and state-subsidized healthcare recipients to pass a drug test in order to remain eligible.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> Wisconsin Governor moves ahead with drug-testing plan for welfare recipients


To be honest, I don't support it, simply because I think people should have the right to poison their own bodies--unless it's a condition of employment. I understand the sentiment, but the implications against freedom are too great. If someone on welfare wants to **** away their cash on booze or ciggies, they should have the right to do it.


----------



## CubaMark

Any politician who wants to introduce legislation like that must agree to also be subject to the testing.

A lot less legislation of this kind would be tabled....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Any politician who wants to introduce legislation like that must agree to also be subject to the testing.
> 
> A lot less legislation of this kind would be tabled....


I suppose you feel the same way about Obamacare--the pols exempted themselves from it.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I suppose you feel the same way about Obamacare--the pols exempted themselves from it.


The insanity of U.S. politics.... Obamacare is a waste of time and effort. I'm all for universal and mandatory coverage... but putting it in the hands of the market is a huge mistake. All it has done is make more insurance companies richer, while ignoring most of the problems that have made the value of U.S. healthcare - results for $ spent - a laughingstock. Forcing people to purchase health insurance is the wrong answer. Universal, single-pay, is the way to go.


----------



## Macfury

Free market is the way to go--letting government ruin it is the mistake. However, we can both agree that making special exemptions for politicians and their staff is wrong.



CubaMark said:


> The insanity of U.S. politics.... Obamacare is a waste of time and effort. I'm all for universal and mandatory coverage... but putting it in the hands of the market is a huge mistake. All it has done is make more insurance companies richer, while ignoring most of the problems that have made the value of U.S. healthcare - results for $ spent - a laughingstock. Forcing people to purchase health insurance is the wrong answer. Universal, single-pay, is the way to go.


----------



## FeXL

Further on that amazing 5.6% US unemployment rate...

The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment



> Here's something that many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading.


----------



## Macfury

Yep. It's closer to 12%.



FeXL said:


> Further on that amazing 5.6% US unemployment rate...
> 
> The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment


----------



## eMacMan

Number I have heard is around 20%. Certainly above 50% for those recent grads with the massive student loans. Wait till they find that those loans are being managed by loan sharks. By the time late fees etc are added in they'll be lucky to get off for less than 1000% of the loan amount.


----------



## FeXL

The thing I find most stunning about this is that there is even a need. Fire a couple of the bastards, a little publicly humiliation, no further issues.

GOP congressman introduces bill to stop feds from watching porn on taxpayer's dime



> The Eliminating Pornography from Agencies Act aptly shares its initials with the government agency that drew attention to the problem of staff watching pornographic videos at work, the Environmental Protection Agency. An inspector general report released last year revealed an EPA official was caught with thousands of downloaded pornographic files on his government computer and had watched up to six hours of porn a day while on the job. *The employee wasn’t fired.*


M'bold.

Why the hell not?


----------



## FeXL

No need for Keystone. Nope...

CN train carrying crude oil derails, catches fire in Northern Ontario



> A Canadian National Railway Co. train carrying 100 tank cars of crude oil derailed and caught fire in Northern Ontario early Sunday morning.
> 
> ...
> 
> Oil producers have increasingly used trains to move crude *amid a shortage of pipeline space*, and to enjoy the flexibility railways offer. The plunge in oil prices has dampened growth in the crude-by-rail business since the fall, but the number of trains carrying oil is expected to rise this year as new terminals are opened.


M'bold.

More:

Obama Wants Oil Transported By Rail



> President Obama will veto Keystone, because transporting oil by train is much better for the environment.


Yep...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> No need for Keystone. Nope...
> 
> CN train carrying crude oil derails, catches fire in Northern Ontario
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> More:
> 
> Obama Wants Oil Transported By Rail
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...


This one was a bit closer to home but I doubt that Obama realizes West Virginia is a state.

Train derailment, fire, forces West Virginia evacuation


----------



## FeXL

More than faintly disturbing...

Russian researchers expose breakthrough in U.S. spying program



> The U.S. National Security Agency has figured out how to hide spying software deep within hard drives made by Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba and other top manufacturers, giving the agency the means to eavesdrop on the majority of the world's computers, according to cyber researchers and former operatives.
> 
> That long-sought and closely guarded ability was part of a cluster of spying programs discovered by Kaspersky Lab, the Moscow-based security software maker that has exposed a series of Western cyberespionage operations.


Once again, I got nothing to hide. However, that doesn't mean that the ability to do so should be there in the first place...


----------



## FeXL

D'oh!

Federal judge temporarily blocks Obama's immigration executive action



> A federal judge has granted a request by 26 states to temporarily block President Obama's executive action on illegal immigration, allowing a lawsuit aimed at permanently stopping the orders to make its way through the courts.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the above post.

Disclaimer: Not a huge fan Ann Coulter. Read a few articles of hers hear & there. Some are off Broadway, some resonate. This is one of the latter.

GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS



> *If a Republican majority in both houses of Congress can't stop Obama from issuing illegal immigrants Social Security cards and years of back welfare payments, there is no reason to vote Republican ever again. *


M'bold.

Yep.

Or any other questionable piece of legislation, either...


----------



## FeXL

Lying bitch...

Hillary Clinton’s Top Aides Knew from First Minutes that Benghazi Was a Terrorist Attack, E-mails Disclose



> From the very first moments of the terrorist attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi on September 11, 2012, then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her top aides were advised that the compound was under a terrorist attack. In fact, less than two hours into the attack, they were told that the al-Qaeda affiliate in Libya, Ansar al-Sharia, had claimed responsibility.


And people are considering her for presidential candidate?

You get what you deserve...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> And people are considering her for presidential candidate?
> 
> You get what you deserve...


She'd keep the generous entitlement state printing money. That's all most voters need to hear.


----------



## FeXL

<just shaking my head>

IRS Being Investigated For Criminal Misconduct Surrounding Lois Lerner's 'Missing' Emails



> Despite IRS Commissioner John Koskinen repeatedly saying under oath in previous hearings that Lerner's emails could not be recovered, Camus and investigators have been successful in recovering nearly 33,000 emails relevant to the IRS investigation.


Well, well, well.

Further:



> “The IRS was apparently given instruction to do whatever necessary to silence those who spoke out against the Obama Administration. It became a West Wing weapon of choice. As the nation’s only pro-liberty election integrity organization, True the Vote was marked for takedown by the IRS early in 2010, along with hundreds of other organizations that spoke openly about government corruption. It took a long time, too long, for the pieces to be put together, but Americans are beginning to understand that the politics of ‘hope and change’ has an enforcement arm that operates like an organized crime syndicate. ..."


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Keystone veto.

President Obama: A Real Keystone Cop



> The president claimed the bill was attempting to “circumvent” the existing review process.
> 
> You’ve got to be kidding me. _This pipeline application has been “under review” for more than 2,300 days._
> 
> In terms of pipeline approvals, the Keystone XL delay has been the longest by far. Approving pipelines is generally a quick, routine process.
> 
> What’s so different about the Keystone XL? In a word, nothing.
> 
> *The Alberta Clipper - a similar pipeline project - was approved swiftly and quietly back in 2009 by this very same president.*


Italics from the link, bold mine.

More:



> Isn’t oil transport by rail a little iffy? Didn't a massive CSX oil train just derail in Mount Carbon, West Virginia?
> 
> Or what about the one that derailed in Lac-Mégantic, Quebec? That one killed 47 people and destroyed 32 buildings (most of the town’s center).
> 
> *On Monday - the day before Obama vetoed the Keystone XL - the Department of Transportation (DOT) projected that trains hauling oil or ethanol will derail, on average, 10 times a year over the next two decades.*
> 
> Even worse, as many as 25 million Americans currently live within the one-mile evacuation zone recommended by the DOT in the event of an oil train derailment.
> 
> *The report went on to say that derailments that occur near a populated area could cause $6 billion in damage and potentially kill up to 200 people.*


M'bold.

'Nuf said.


----------



## Macfury

He's kissing the ass of lefty donors who see this as a must-kill. He's on to more important things right now, like ensuring that Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons until 2025.





FeXL said:


> Further on the Keystone veto.
> 
> President Obama: A Real Keystone Cop
> 
> 
> 
> Italics from the link, bold mine.
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 'Nuf said.


----------



## FeXL

You mean, like this?


----------



## Macfury

Yep.


----------



## Macfury

Love this speech by Rudy Giuliani:



> We are upset that Prime Minister Netanyahu wants to come here and defend his country? When I was mayor of New York and someone threatened me, someone threatened to destroy New York City, I would go anywhere, anyplace, any time, and I wouldn't give a damn what the president of the United States thought, to defend my country. That is a patriot! That's a man who loves his people! That's a man who protects his people! That's a man who fights for his people, unlike our president!


This is the one thing I've noticed about Obama, that I've never noticed about a president I've disliked: he doesn't even appear to be _casually_ motivated by the interests of his country. There isn't even the sheen of it!


----------



## Macfury

I see that Barack Obama is going full Neville Chambarlain on an Iraq deal. I know he's not a big booster of America, but he seems almost perversely interested in undermining its position in the world. In contrast, Benjamin Netanyahu comes across as a leader who acts passionately on behalf of his country.


----------



## FeXL

The left is terrified of what Netanyahu may have to say about Iran & nukes. So much so that a number of them are boycotting his speech, yet they are going to comment on it afterwards. The disconnect is stunning.

Democrats Refusing to Watch Historic Netanyahu Speech Plan Response to It


----------



## Macfury

Obama will be long gone by the time the seeds of his failed presidency really start to bear their harsh fruit. He'll still be blaming every one of his perverse decisions on the Republicans.


----------



## FeXL

More FUBAR from the Most Transparent Administration ever.

Lawyer: Department of Justice Shut Down Search For Lois Lerner’s Emails



> The Department of Justice blocked an attempt to force the Internal Revenue Service to search for Lois Lerner’s missing emails at off-site storage facilities, according to a lawyer pushing to obtain the emails.
> 
> The IRS never looked for Lerner’s backup email tapes at the West Virginia storage facility where they were being housed. Treasury deputy inspector general Timothy Camus told Congress that the IRS never asked IT professionals at the New Martinsville, W.V. storage site for the backup tapes. Camus only found the backup tape for Lerner’s missing 2011 emails about two weeks ago.


More:

Most Transparent Administration Ever Suffers Curious Epidemic of Disappearing Email Systems, Crashed Hard Drives and Lost Backup Tapes



> ...hundreds of former IRS official Lois Lerner’s previously “lost” backup tapes have been recovered, which could result in the recovery of a new trove of her emails. IRS Deputy Inspector General Timothy P. Camus told Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) on Thursday that it took investigators just two weeks to recover 424 backup tapes that were previously said to be unretrievable.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, this is sweet. The icing on the cake would be if they stripped him of the award...

In "Unprecedented Move" Nobel Peace Prize Chairman Demoted For Decision To Give Obama 2009 Award



> Which is why don't expect much coverage of the inevitable aftermath: earlier today, in what France24 dubbed an "in an unprecedented move", the controversial head of Norway's Nobel Peace Prize committee was removed Tuesday and demoted to the rank of mere member.
> 
> ...
> 
> Thorbjoern Jagland, a former Norwegian premier, *drew criticism after becoming committee chairman in 2009 for awarding the prestigious Nobel to newly elected US President Barack Obama.*


Bold from the link.

Bet ya don't read this anywhere in the Press Corpse, aka MSM...


----------



## CubaMark

Religious extremist with political responsibility in an area that is in obvious conflict-of-interest with this beliefs. If politicians must recuse themselves from business dealings in which they have a vested interest, should not those with faith/political policy conflicts do the same?

_"God is still up there, and He promised to maintain the seasons and that cold and heat would never cease as long as the earth remains...The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."_
—Sen. Jim Inhofe, chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee​
(Doonesbury)


----------



## Macfury

No, they should not recuse themselves, or all you'd lose ALL of the Democrats who believe in the religion of global warming.



CubaMark said:


> Religious extremist with political responsibility in an area that is in obvious conflict-of-interest with this beliefs. If politicians must recuse themselves from business dealings in which they have a vested interest, should not those with faith/political policy conflicts do the same?
> 
> _"God is still up there, and He promised to maintain the seasons and that cold and heat would never cease as long as the earth remains...The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."_
> —Sen. Jim Inhofe, chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee​
> (Doonesbury)


----------



## FeXL

Obie, Obie, Obie... See what you've done already?

BNSF oil train derails in rural Illinois; two cars aflame



> A BNSF Railway [BNISF.UL] train loaded with crude oil derailed and caught fire on Thursday afternoon in a rural area south of Galena, Illinois, according to local officials and the company.
> 
> The incident marks the latest in a series of derailments in North America and the third in three weeks involving trains hauling crude oil, *which has put a heightened focus on rail safety.*


M'bold.

Yep, the issue here is definitely rail safety. Yessiree...

In typical form, they look at effect, rather than cause.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> The left is terrified of what Netanyahu may have to say about Iran & nukes. So much so that a number of them are boycotting his speech, yet they are going to comment on it afterwards. The disconnect is stunning.


This "left" you speak of. Are you still using that word to describe Democrats? If so.. how very inaccurate. Politically, they're centrists, if not centre-right. Those damn Tea Partiers showed up and skewed the political metre so far right, everyone's sliding away...


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> This "left" you speak of. Are you still using that word to describe Democrats? If so.. how very inaccurate. Politically, they're centrists, if not centre-right. Those damn Tea Partiers showed up and skewed the political metre so far right, everyone's sliding away...


Yeah, those damn Tea Partiers. They're so, like, totally radical, dude...

Y know, it's been a long time since Social Studies and all those "-isms" but I'll dredge up what little I remember.

As I recall, far right is plain, good, old-fashioned fascism, no? Pretty sure the Tea Party has not moved fascism any further right than what it was back in the 70's when I first learned this stuff. Also pretty sure Tea Partiers are significantly left of fascism. Nice try.

As to my observations about the left, pretty sure the left still encompasses (and embraces) things like socialism and, the far left, communism. Among a slew of other things (liars, cheats, thieves), Jug Ears & Co. are very much socialists. 

Just because your personal political leanings are so far left that the communists are blushing, doesn't mean that there aren't leftists to the far right of you.

My analysis stands.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, loving this.

The Left’s Mess in Venezuela



> Venezuela had a good run of it for about five minutes there, at least in public-relations terms. When petroleum prices were booming, all it took was a few gallons of heating oil from Hugo Chávez to buy the extravagant praise of House members, with Representative Chaka Fattah (D., Philadelphia) issuing statements praising Venezuela’s state-run oil company “and the Venezuelan people for their benevolence.” Lest anybody feel creeped out by running political errands for a brutal and repressive caudillo, Joseph Kennedy — son of Senator Robert Kennedy — proclaimed that refusing the strongman’s patronage would be “a crime against humanity.” Kennedy was at the time the director of Citizens Energy, which had a contract to help distribute that Venezuelan heating oil — Boss Hugo was a brute, but he understood American politics.


Article nails it. Repeatedly.

And, this:



> Vice President Biden, who can always be counted on to cut straight to the heart of any political question, ran into Maduro in Brazil and, noting the potentate’s thick mane, commented: “If I had your hair, I’d be president of the United States.” Tragically for the Sage of Delaware, hair transplants don’t work that way.


What is it about the left's fascination with hair?


----------



## FeXL

On email-gate.

President Claims He Never Sent An E-mail To The Secretary of State



> The White House thoroughly investigated State Department communications over Benghazi, only they didn’t actually know where the Secretary of State’s E-mails were, and Obama now claims he never sent an E-mail in four years to the Secretary of State


Further and, from the department of When You've Lost the Washington Post, you are totally screwed...

More Trouble for Hillary: The Washington Post Brings Up Benghazi



> Maybe — maybe — this is simply the obligatory MSM piece, tut-tutting about the sins of Democrats and urging their co-religionists to do better, or at least lessen the stench. You know, the old “more in sorrow than in anger” wrist slap.


----------



## FeXL

Not sure what to make of this.

Buffett criticizes Keystone XL delay, says U.S. thumbing nose at Canada



> “I think that we have an enormous interest in working with Canada, as they have in working with us. That oil is going to get sold. If we make it more difficult for them, who knows how they’ll feel about making things more difficult for us some day.”


Obie's not gonna like that...


----------



## Macfury

That one is hard to fathom, with Buffett making so much money on transporting oil by rail.



FeXL said:


> Not sure what to make of this.
> 
> Buffett criticizes Keystone XL delay, says U.S. thumbing nose at Canada
> 
> 
> 
> Obie's not gonna like that...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> That one is hard to fathom, with Buffett making so much money on transporting oil by rail.


Exactly what I was thinking.

What are we missing on the other side of the equation?


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, about that "Most Transparent White House In History"...

White House office to delete its FOIA regulations



> The White House is removing a federal regulation that subjects its Office of Administration to the Freedom of Information Act, making official a policy under Presidents Bush and Obama to reject requests for records to that office.


Further:



> But the timing of the move raised eyebrows among transparency advocates, coming on National Freedom of Information Day and during a national debate over the preservation of Obama administration records. It's also Sunshine Week, an effort by news organizations and watchdog groups to highlight issues of government transparency.
> 
> "*The irony of this being Sunshine Week is not lost on me*," said Anne Weismann of the liberal Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW.


M'bold.

Not so much, apparently...


----------



## Macfury

Despite Obama's efforts to undermine Netanyhu, he handily cruised to another victory.


----------



## FeXL

On the EPA.

Obama’s Law School Professor: EPA Is ‘Burning The Constitution’



> Laurence Tribe, a liberal constitutional scholar at Harvard University, told House lawmakers that EPA carbon dioxide regulations are tearing the Constitution apart.
> 
> “EPA possesses only the authority granted to it by Congress,” Tribe told lawmakers in a hearing Tuesday. “Its gambit here raises serious questions under the separation of powers… because EPA is attempting to exercise lawmaking power that belongs to Congress and judicial power that belongs to the federal courts.”
> 
> *“Burning the Constitution should not become part of our national energy policy,” Tribe added.*


M'bold.

No argument.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Big Oil.

Obama Is The #1 Big Oil Shill



> Obama says that unfunded skeptics are financed by big oil, while he is the top recipient of big oil cash.
> 
> ...
> 
> You might remember that BP is the company which filled the Gulf of Mexico with oil a few years ago.


But, but, but...Global Warming!


----------



## FeXL

This is rich...

Couple days back one of Starbucks' executives decides that, while you're waiting for your coffee, your barista will engage you in a little light conversation about race. 

How'd that turn out?

This Ended Poorly: Black People Attempt to Tweet Their "Real Talk" About Race At Starbucks' Executive; He Blocks Them, Then Deletes the Account



> Let me explain something to you, Jasper: If you want to have a Corporate-Sponsored Discussion of Race, one of the topics must inevitably be should we have a corporate-sponsored discussion of race? And if you're not willing to even entertain that question, you're not really willing to have a discussion of race.
> 
> You should also be prepared for the fact that all "discussions of race" start and end with attacks on the motives of anyone identified as white, white-acting, or white-employed (is Starbucks just doing this to get black people to buy their coffee?!?!), and this is not only part of the discussion, but usually the entirety of the discussion.
> 
> *And if you're not adult enough and intelligent enough to recognize that "conversations on race" are chiefly group tribal attacks and coordinated tribal point-scoring, you're also not ready to have this "conversation on race" that you think you want.*


Yeah, my bold.

Brilliant...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I might not agree with the exact genealogy (you mis-spelled it farleftside!)--for example, WWII did not cause Vetnam--but agreed that the US does not often consider the long-term ramifications of its foreign policy.


----------



## eMacMan

From way back. Turns out corporate spokesmen are like politicians. If their lips are moving technically they may not be lying, nonetheless the intent is deceipt.



Rps said:


> As someone close to this, Dr. G, Romney's ad is false, Chrysler has stated that it is not sending jeep production to China only that it intends to send Jeeps to the Chinese market. In fact, Chrysler is increasing American jobs at its Jeep production plants.......


Technically true, it's not China, it's Italy and some of those Eyetie Jeeps are being sold in North America.

Italian-made version of iconic Jeep goes on sale in US



> US off-roaders seeking to rev up the four-wheel drive of a Jeep might soon find out that their American icon is made in Italy.
> 
> In a sign of what comes with the takeover of Chrysler by Italian giant Fiat, US auto dealers have begun selling the Italian-made Jeep Renegade.
> 
> The new Renegade, a small 4x4 SUV, was shipped to dealers last week, according to Todd Goyer, US spokesman of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA). The Renegade will hit showrooms nationwide in volume next month, with prices starting at around $20,000.
> .....


EDIT: I believe the RPS post referred to Chryslers stated position and certainly did not intend to impune his personal reputation by inferring that he was a corporate spokesman.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (34th President of the United States) spoke to the American Society of newspaper editors on April 16th 1953. Below is a quotation from that speech. I have a feeling that Ike would not be nominated as the Republican candidate for president these days. Sad.


----------



## JAMG

Sadly, I knew very little about Ike's presidency, Canadian schools mostly mention him building the US Highway system. I saw a documentary on him last year, and the more I hear, the more I think I would have voted for him.

Funny how Republicans seem to value Generals, but I think you are right, he would not be considered a republican today.


----------



## Dr.G.

JAMG said:


> Sadly, I knew very little about Ike's presidency, Canadian schools mostly mention him building the US Highway system. I saw a documentary on him last year, and the more I hear, the more I think I would have voted for him.
> 
> Funny how Republicans seem to value Generals, but I think you are right, he would not be considered a republican today.


He would never make it past the early primaries, JAMG. He was an OK president, and was lucky to be there during the boom years of post WWII America.


----------



## Macfury

He wouldn't be nominated by the Democrats either. Neither would JFK!


----------



## eMacMan

I suspect Ike's death camps would probably be brought to light by whichever party did not nominate.


----------



## Macfury

Obama is either the worst negotiator in recent American history or a quisling:

Nuclear lair may survive in Iran deal | The Australian



> Experts say the compromise for Fordo could still be problematic. They note it would allow Iran to keep intact technology that could be quickly repurposed for uranium enrichment at a sensitive facility that the US and its allies originally wanted stripped.
> 
> As well as Tehran’s poor record in allowing access for international inspectors, the Fordo site is a particular concern because it is hardened and dug deeply into a mountainside making it resistant — possibly impervious — to airstrikes.


----------



## FeXL

No ****e...


----------



## Macfury

If Obama worked on behalf of his own country the way that he is working for Iran, Americans might be better served. Interesting that he is practically begging them to sign onto a non-verifiable deal, even as they mock him publicly. How the mighty have fallen.


----------



## Rps

EMacman, the new Renegade is an adaptation of the FIAT 500L, as far as I can see. Although badged as a Jeep, I think it will be a a stiff. I personally do not see FIAT as the saviour of Chrysler .... Again the sin of car companies is their tendency for model proliferation. Jeep owners, I think, will only think American made.... But we will see.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> He would never make it past the early primaries, JAMG. He was an OK president, and was lucky to be there during the boom years of post WWII America.


Timing is everything, but his greatest quote,as far as I am concerned was his " beware the industrial-military complex". How true!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If Obama worked on behalf of his own country the way that he is working for Iran, Americans might be better served. Interesting that he is practically begging them to sign onto a non-verifiable deal, even as they mock him publicly. How the mighty have fallen.


Obama seems to be building the wrong legacy. Too me, he almost seems to be submarining the Democrats chances for the next election.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Obama seems to be building the wrong legacy. Too me, he almost seems to be submarining the Democrats chances for the next election.


I don't think he has any interest in anything beyond his personal goals.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I don't think he has any interest in anything beyond his personal goals.


Uhh he is a politician, so saying that is pretty much the definition of "redundant", regardless of party or leanings.


----------



## Macfury

No, I don't believe it is.



eMacMan said:


> Uhh he is a politician, so saying that is pretty much the definition of "redundant", regardless of party or leanings.


----------



## Dr.G.

Meanwhile, in Indiana .......................

Interesting that due to the pressure put upon the Gov. of Arkansas, this governor will not sign a similar bill into law.

I keep thinking about how Jewish people in Germany had to wear yellow stars of David to help the German people identify those who were Jewish in public. Shameful then and shameful now. America was founded upon the concept of "freedom of religion", and now, in some states, religion is being used to restrict the freedoms of some Americans.


----------



## Macfury

Freedom of religion means that nobody should be forced by government to do those things that they believe will affect their relationship with the God they serve. So if you walk into a Kosher restaurant and ask for a meal combining milk and meat, no observant Jew should be forced to prepare or serve that meal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Freedom of religion means that nobody should be forced by government to do those things that they believe will affect their relationship with the God they serve. So if you walk into a Kosher restaurant and ask for a meal combining milk and meat, no observant Jew should be forced to prepare or serve that meal.


A Kosher restaurant does not serve meals with milk and meat products served together. However, anyone who walks into such a restaurant will be served a Kosher meal, regardless of their gender preferences, religion, race or nationality. That is the difference.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> America was founded upon the concept of "freedom of religion", and now, in some states, religion is being used to restrict the freedoms of some Americans.


No it isn't. That's not what this or any other RFRA is about. No one is asking for the right to restrict anyone else's freedom. The only want to be afforded the same rights to their own faith. It's about protecting their freedoms that are being eroded on a daily basis.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A Kosher restaurant does not serve meals with milk and meat products served together. However, anyone who walks into such a restaurant will be served a Kosher meal, regardless of their gender preferences, religion, race or nationality. That is the difference.


Not at all. My brother once ordered a meal that combined a glass of milk with a Montreal smoked meat sandwich at a Kosher deli and they told him they could not meet his request. Under the stance you are advocating, the deli would have been forced to sell him both together in a single meal, even though doing so violated their conscience and their relationship with their Creator.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Not at all. My brother once ordered a meal that combined a glass of milk with a Montreal smoked meat sandwich at a Kosher deli and they told him they could not meet his request. Under the stance you are advocating, the deli would have been forced to sell him both together in a single meal, even though doing so violated their conscience and their relationship with their Creator.


I can assure you that if the deli is Kosher, they would not have dairy and meat. This would be like asking for a coke at a KFC ( KFC is owned by Pepsi ), so you could get a cola at a KFC but not a coke. Similarily, your brother could get a beverage with his Kosher meal ( if indeed it was Kosher ). It is not that they refused to sell him a meal, it is that they didn't have what he asked for.


----------



## Macfury

Who was there, rps? They would sell you a glass of milk on its own, but then you could not order the sandwich. Or vice versa.



Rps said:


> I can assure you that if the deli is Kosher, they would not have dairy and meat. This would be like asking for a coke at a KFC ( KFC is owned by Pepsi ), so you could get a cola at a KFC but not a coke. Similarily, your brother could get a beverage with his Kosher meal ( if indeed it was Kosher ). It is not that they refused to sell him a meal, it is that they didn't have what he asked for.


----------



## Macfury

I have not been a big fan of John Boehner, but I am pleased with him for showing support for Israel on a recent visit to that country, even as Obama has worked so hard to undermine its security. It's become abundantly clear that Obama is not negotiating with Iran, but negotiating with other western nations _on behalf of_ Iran to provide that country with a framework that both ends sanctions AND allows it to develop nuclear weapons.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Who was there, rps? They would sell you a glass of milk on its own, but then you could not order the sandwich. Or vice versa.


Not being knit-picky here, and yes I was not there, your response above is not exactly as you stated in your original replay. You indicated they could not meet his demand which is not the same as they would sell a glass of milk and a meat sandwich separately.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not being knit-picky here, and yes I was not there, your response above is not exactly as you stated in your original replay. You indicated they could not meet his demand which is not the same as they would sell a glass of milk and a meat sandwich separately.


If they knew he had ordered the meat, they would not sell him the milk. They would not sell it to him on the same visit.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If they knew he had ordered the meat, they would not sell him the milk. They would not sell it to him on the same visit.


Did they refuse him service based on his religion, nationality, gender preference, gender or race? They were willing to serve him, just not what he requested in total. If I went into a pizza restaurant and wanted Chinese food or a Montreal-style smoked meat sandwich they would not be able to meet my request since they (I assume) do not serve this sort of food. However, they would be willing to serve me the Italian sorts of food that they did serve.


----------



## MacGuiver

I'll admit its a fine line. I believe people should have freedom of religion and conscience but I also would not want to see claims to exercise that freedom used to disguise simple hatred of others. The problem is the Left frames all opposition or difference of opinion on the gay marriage issue (and pretty much any social issue) as "hatred" when the person may be the least bit inspired by hate. I think its on page one of the leftist playbook.
Interestingly a guy posted a youtube video of a social experiment calling bakeries with predominantly gay employees to order a cake with the inscriptions gay marriage is wrong for a hypothetical traditional marriage group function. He must have called 10 different bakeries and not one would bake his cake and he was often informed of this in a not so civil manner. It seems their moral objection to his view on marriage (not an illegal one) trumped his "right" to get served what he wanted. 
What is also ironic in this whole debate is corporate high priests waying in to punish the state of Indiana (yeah I'm talking about you Tim Cook). The same company happily does business with countries where they execute gays with not a peep of protest or exploit 3rd world workers for corporate gains. Don't bake Tim a wedding cake however and its game on.


----------



## Rps

MacGuiver, good to hear from you. What I see as the issue here is the legislative backdoor has been highlighted. Usually issues in law surface after a few court cases based on its original writing have been challenged in court. It is nice to see this coming out prior to the onslaught of cases. I think this is an important issue as it does open the door to prejudice and the reopening of legislative wounds .... Or unanswered questions such as the constitutionality of same-sex marriage or abortion. It certainly will keep the Supreme Court in business when the cases flow up under States Rights.


----------



## Rps

I suppose all this means that the Republicans are now admitting that, at least politically, they are frightened of Gays (as a political group )


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Did they refuse him service based on his religion, nationality, gender preference, gender or race? They were willing to serve him, just not what he requested in total. If I went into a pizza restaurant and wanted Chinese food or a Montreal-style smoked meat sandwich they would not be able to meet my request since they (I assume) do not serve this sort of food. However, they would be willing to serve me the Italian sorts of food that they did serve.


In the case of the deli, they had both items behind the counter, but could not bring themselves to sell it to him as requested because of their religious beliefs and their knowledge of how both items would be used.

In the case in question, the bakers may refuse to sell a cake because they feel that they are knowingly supporting a ceremony that violates their religious beliefs. It has nothing to do with who is buying the cake and everything to do with how the cake will be used.

If a gay couple wanted to buy a birthday cake, this would not be a problem. If a gay customer asked for a cake, but did not specify that it was a wedding cake for them, it would not be a problem. If a heterosexual caterer wanted to order a wedding cake specifically for a gay wedding, the baker might refuse.

So it's not a question of discriminating on the basis of the customer. It is a matter of religious conscience regarding how the cake will be used.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I suppose all this means that the Republicans are now admitting that, at least politically, they are frightened of Gays (as a political group )


The "gay lobby" is just an extension of the Democrat Party. The Republicans are not so much afraid of them as of the explosive diarrhea of media coverage that will be obediently provided by Democrats in the media:

A sad example:

CNN ATTACKS Duke basketball coach for NOT speaking out against new Indiana Religious Freedom law » The Right Scoop -


----------



## Macfury

It's an excellent example. They were discriminating against him not because of who he was, but because they knew _how the cake would be used_.



MacGuiver said:


> Interestingly a guy posted a youtube video of a social experiment calling bakeries with predominantly gay employees to order a cake with the inscriptions gay marriage is wrong for a hypothetical traditional marriage group function. He must have called 10 different bakeries and not one would bake his cake and he was often informed of this in a not so civil manner. It seems their moral objection to his view on marriage (not an illegal one) trumped his "right" to get served what he wanted. .


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> It's an excellent example. They were discriminating against him not because of who he was, but because they knew _how the cake would be used_.


And I wholeheartedly support their right to refuse his business because of there moral stand even though I don't support gay marriage. Its called freedom of conscience. 
I'm a graphic artist and I can think of many scenario where I would turn down a job due to moral objection. I don't want some totalitarian government trying to force me to conform to their dogma. 
The left has this notion that freedom only applies to those holding the same view. Everyone outside of their narrow field of freedom is labeled.


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> The "gay lobby" is just an extension of the Democrat Party. The Republicans are not so much afraid of them as of the explosive diarrhea of media coverage that will be obediently provided by Democrats in the media:
> 
> A sad example:
> 
> CNN ATTACKS Duke basketball coach for NOT speaking out against new Indiana Religious Freedom law » The Right Scoop -


Unbelievable!!! And who can deny the existence of a gay agenda while keeping a straight face?
He's a bloody basketball coach and they're concerned about his opinion on gay rights legislation? Seriously? And when he refuses to get dragged into it and tow the politically correct line they try to shame him for it? NICE!


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> Unbelievable!!! And who can deny the existence of a gay agenda while keeping a straight face?
> He's a bloody basketball coach and they're concerned about his opinion on gay rights legislation? Seriously? And when he refuses to get dragged into it and tow the politically correct line they try to shame him for it? NICE!


This is par for the course for a movement that embraces totalitarianism. You're not expected merely to shut up and accept their philosophical masturbation as the law of the land--you have to stand up and praise it or face this sort of idiocy.


----------



## CubaMark

MacGuiver said:


> And I wholeheartedly support their right to refuse his business because of there moral stand even though I don't support gay marriage.


The "even though" in this sentence is wrongly placed. It would be correct if you said that you *do* support gay marriage.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The "even though" in this sentence is wrongly placed. It would be correct if you said that you *do* support gay marriage.


No, it is correct. _Even though_ MacGuiver does not support gay marriage as the baker might, he supports the right of such a baker to refuse to bake a cake with a message opposing gay marriage


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

In real life, the baker would have been shut down immediately following the second panel by death threats and violence from Progressives.

Christian Pizza Shop Owners 'in Hiding' Amid Death Threats, Close Doors After Indiana HS Coach Threatens to Torch Pizzeria for Saying They 'Won't Cater Gay Weddings'



> A high school golf coach in Indiana has been suspended after she threatened to burn down a local pizzeria when she heard its Christian owners say earlier this week that they'd refuse to cater gay weddings if asked to do so. The pizza shop has temporarily closed amid safety concerns after its owners received death threats this week.


----------



## MacGuiver

Interesting but predictable.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgWIhYAtan4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgWIhYAtan4[/ame]

I'm sure a "Progressive Jihad" against this business is already underway with death treats and public shaming?


----------



## Macfury

They're not Christian, so they get a pass.



MacGuiver said:


> Interesting but predictable.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgWIhYAtan4
> 
> I'm sure a "Progressive Jihad" against this business is already underway with death treats and public shaming?


----------



## Dr.G.

.


----------



## Macfury

Is this a litmus test? How many times did Jesus say it was a sin not to sell a cake?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Is this a litmus test? How many times did Jesus say it was a sin not to sell a cake?


Luke 6:31 records Jesus saying, “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Luke 6:31 records Jesus saying, “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”


I would hope that cake baker is honouring the right of other businesses to choose the level of engagement they might have with them regarding some activities. They would hardly demand that a business run by a person who is pro-abortion assist them with staging an anti-abortion rally, for example. There are plenty of businesses available who who would not have to violate their own consciences to assist them.


----------



## Rps

Thank G_d we are talking about this, something that truly matters instead of the usual pap such as the Iranian nuclear talks, escalation of the U.S. colilition in Syria, Iraq and now possibly reentry into Afghanistan, the dropping of the ball by Obama with respect to the Chinese Asian Investment Bank, the implosion of both the Republican and Demcratic parties in a nomination year, the total and complete collapse of Canada/U.S. Relations .... but I guess I am ranting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Thank G_d we are talking about this, something that truly matters instead of the usual pap such as the Iranian nuclear talks, escalation of the U.S. colilition in Syria, Iraq and now possibly reentry into Afghanistan, the dropping of the ball by Obama with respect to the Chinese Asian Investment Bank, the implosion of both the Republican and Demcratic parties in a nomination year, the total and complete collapse of Canada/U.S. Relations .... but I guess I am ranting.


True. These are the issues of the day for many in the world. Of course, Iran's leader has made an offer to Pres. Obama to mediate the disputes between the Democrats and Republicans in Congress, so that might be a good start at political coexistence in the US Congress.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> True. These are the issues of the day for many in the world. Of course, Iran's leader has made an offer to Pres. Obama to mediate the disputes between the Democrats and Republicans in Congress, so that might be a good start at political coexistence in the US Congress.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


We in the West have a natural distrust of Iran I think. One issue is we don't know who is actually running the country.


----------



## Macfury

> ....such as the Iranian nuclear talks,


I have already stated that Obama's negotiations with Iran brand him as either a fool or a quisling. He has nothing... a note on a memorandum of understanding of a framework for a non-existent agreement to relieve sanctions in exchange for... nothing. Yet he's trumpeting like a bull elephant that he's achieved something great for the American people.



> ... escalation of the U.S. coalition in Syria, Iraq and now possibly reentry into Afghanistan


Obama disrespected his military advisors on all of these issues, even setting up General Petraeus for scandal for disagreeing with him on these matters. Obama thought he was the smartest guy in the room and instead has ushered in the greatest era of Middle East instability in recent memory. I can only pray this powder keg doesn't explode before he is replaced as president.



> ... the dropping of the ball by Obama with respect to the Chinese Asian Investment Bank...


What could the fool do? His entire disastrous domestic program is funded entirely by money borrowed from the Chinese. As a negotiator, he has proved himself a weakling time and again.

From his State of the Union address:



> But as we speak, China wants to write the rules for the world’s fastest-growing region. That would put our workers and our businesses at a disadvantage.
> 
> Why would we let that happen? We should write those rules. We should level the playing field.


But he had no leverage with China and he has so alienated America's traditional allies, hanging them out to dry one by one, that only Japan stood by him, more out of self-interest than loyalty.



> ...and complete collapse of Canada/U.S. Relations


The narcissist-in-chief has no time for such petty matters. He's still polishing up his Nobel Peace Prize.



> .. the implosion of both the Republican and Demcratic parties in a nomination year


Don't understand this one.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Thank G_d we are talking about this, something that truly matters instead of the usual pap such as the Iranian nuclear talks, escalation of the U.S. colilition in Syria, Iraq and now possibly reentry into Afghanistan, the dropping of the ball by Obama with respect to the Chinese Asian Investment Bank, the implosion of both the Republican and Demcratic parties in a nomination year, the total and complete collapse of Canada/U.S. Relations .... but I guess I am ranting.


Rant appreciated, rps.

The Asian Investment Bank - that's truly interesting development I've yet to do sufficient reading on the topic, so further comment will have to wait a bit. I can say, on a tangentially related note, that Latin America as a whole has been embracing Chinese investors with wide open arms, and they are *everywhere*, with particular presence in raw materials sourcing (nickel, lithium, etc). This comes in tandem with their investment efforts in Africa over the past two decades. Mandarin lessons may be useful....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Mandarin lessons may be useful....


What would a guy like you have to do with commerce?


----------



## eMacMan

The Asian Investment Bank has a lot of good reasons for coming into being but FATCA is one of them. Any bank with investments or branches in the USA is subject to out and out extortion, as the US attempts to control the entire banking world. For example if an American abroad reports a $50,000 account on his F(u)BAR and his bank does not file a corresponding form, the IRS can, and has shown no reluctance to, fine that bank $1,000,000. That is true whether or not the host nation has signed a FATCA-IGA. All an IGA really does is give the IRS that nations blessing to collect those fines. Not that the IRS needs any help, as all of that banks US investments, branches and properties are subject to seizure by the IRS, should the bank prove reluctant to pay up.

A lot of banks outside the USA simply booted all US customers but realistically it makes more sense to ditch the ties to the US investment community and the US Federal Reserve. That way the IRS can attempt to levy fines until politicians instinctively tell the truth, but will have no way to collect them. 

Another big reason is that it eliminates the buy then sell US dollars, which is at the moment, part of all international currency exchange. Even the big guys lose at least 2¢/dollar by having to first buy US currency then exchange it for whatever foreign currency they need. Us little guys see about 6¢ flushed on every US dollar involved in the exchange.


----------



## Dr.G.

"There are at least two areas where Paul has moved more in line with the conservative Republican base, somewhat to the consternation of the purists in the libertarian movement: adopting a more muscular posture on defense and foreign policy, and courting the religious right."

Sad to hear that he shall be "courting the religious right", since I thought that he had the strength of his convictions, much like his father, Ron. Such is Life.
Rand Paul seems to stray from libertarian roots as he courts GOP base - The Washington Post


----------



## Macfury

I don't see anything in that article inconsistent with his previously stated views.



Dr.G. said:


> "There are at least two areas where Paul has moved more in line with the conservative Republican base, somewhat to the consternation of the purists in the libertarian movement: adopting a more muscular posture on defense and foreign policy, and courting the religious right."
> 
> Sad to hear that he shall be "courting the religious right", since I thought that he had the strength of his convictions, much like his father, Ron. Such is Life.
> Rand Paul seems to stray from libertarian roots as he courts GOP base - The Washington Post


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't see anything in that article inconsistent with his previously stated views.


He, or his dad, never before pandered to the religious right. That is a change from his previous positions. For this, even though I do not support many of his views, I felt he did hold a "high ground" due to his policies for the “socially liberal” element among libertarian-leaning voters. We shall see which way his sails turn comes his announcement tomorrow.


----------



## Macfury

Specifically, how has his position changed. It can't simply have switched from "not pandering" to "pandering." What specifically has he said that you consider pandering.

For example, when both John Kerry and Hillary Clinton pretended to hunt duck, or when President Obama stated that marriage was between a man and a woman--were you disgusted with them for pandering?



Dr.G. said:


> He, or his dad, never before pandered to the religious right. That is a change from his previous positions. For this, even though I do not support many of his views, I felt he did hold a "high ground" due to his policies for the “socially liberal” element among libertarian-leaning voters. We shall see which way his sails turn comes his announcement tomorrow.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Specifically, how has his position changed. It can't simply have switched from "not pandering" to "pandering." What specifically has he said that you consider pandering.
> 
> For example, when both John Kerry and Hillary Clinton pretended to hunt duck, or when President Obama stated that marriage was between a man and a woman--were you disgusted with them for pandering?


Anyone who is satisfied with the ethical standards set by Clinton, Kerry or for that matter Jeb Bush has no reason to look beyond the lame stream candidates.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting. Just listened to Rand Paul's announcement that he is running for president. He offered "hope and change", Libertarian-style.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Anyone who is satisfied with the ethical standards set by Clinton, Kerry or for that matter Jeb Bush has no reason to look beyond the lame stream candidates.


Heh. Jeb Bush. The Texas-born member of a privileged and powerful political family, who once identified as Hispanic when he registered to vote. :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

A worthy addition to the thread. Seems to have ruffled some elite feathers as it was disappeared in a big hurry. Love the irony of shrouding then carting off a very worthy addition to a revolutionary war memorial.

Bust of Edward Snowden


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Heh. Jeb Bush. The Texas-born member of a privileged and powerful political family, who once identified as Hispanic when he registered to vote. :lmao:


Are you comparing him to Fauxcahontas--Elizabeth Warren?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Are you comparing him to Fauxcahontas--Elizabeth Warren?


I wasn't - didn't realize I had a need to do so. Warren certainly seems to have made a mess of her public image with the Cherokee claims. Perhaps that's why she's repeatedly said she won't be running for President.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Perhaps that's why she's repeatedly said she won't be running for President.


Just watch her...


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Just watch her...


Agreed!


----------



## Macfury

Obama says Iran time to build nuke could drop after 13 years | UTSanDiego.com



> Iran could be able to obtain a nuclear weapon much more quickly after the first 13 years of the emerging nuclear deal, President Barack Obama acknowledged Tuesday. Yet he said that with no deal, the world would be even less equipped to stop it.


Obama is a tough negotiator... on behalf of Iran. He managed to give them clearance for developing a nuclear weapon in only 13 years in this "framework" for a deal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama, Castro to talk on sidelines of summit - The Washington Post

A moment in history.


----------



## Macfury

How so? They have met before.



Dr.G. said:


> Obama, Castro to talk on sidelines of summit - The Washington Post
> 
> A moment in history.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How so? They have met before.


"PANAMA CITY — President Obama and Cuban President Raúl Castro will hold a bilateral meeting Saturday on the margins of the Summit of the Americas here, the first such encounter between leaders of the two nations in more than 50 years, White House officials said." When was their previous meeting?


----------



## Macfury

At Nelson Mandela’s funeral.



Dr.G. said:


> "PANAMA CITY — President Obama and Cuban President Raúl Castro will hold a bilateral meeting Saturday on the margins of the Summit of the Americas here, the first such encounter between leaders of the two nations in more than 50 years, White House officials said." When was their previous meeting?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> At Nelson Mandela’s funeral.


Yes, a chance encounter, an impromptu handshake, and the wingnuts in the USA lost their frickin' minds....

This is an historic event in Panama, as the two leaders will actually be talking to one another on a programme of rapprochement.

And naturally, those opposed to the deal will do their damndest to kabosh any deal... including taking to the side-event at the Panama Summit the murderer of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara, former (are you ever really 'former'?) CIA agent Feliz Rodriguez. He's a 'representative of civil society'. 

Jeebus, how _that_ term has been mangled and perverted, eh?


----------



## Macfury

The Cubans are no worse than other repressive regimes with which the US regularly interacts, so it's no big deal to me. Soon Cuba as it is today will disappear under a tsunami of Coca-Cola--hooray!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> At Nelson Mandela’s funeral.


Yes, I recall that now. Still, this is a more semi-formal meeting between two heads of state.


----------



## Dr.G.

Stephen Harper shakes Raul Castro's hand at Summit of the Americas - Politics - CBC News

Détente all around.


----------



## Macfury

Canada has hardly been at odds with Cuba!



Dr.G. said:


> Stephen Harper shakes Raul Castro's hand at Summit of the Americas - Politics - CBC News
> 
> Détente all around.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Canada has hardly been at odds with Cuba!


Man, are you ever out of touch on Canada-Cuba relations....


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Canada has hardly been at odds with Cuba!


True, but he is shaking hands with Pres. Obama, and they have not been on the best of terms. "Peace in our time." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Man, are you ever out of touch on Canada-Cuba relations....


We treat them about the same as other pint-size repressive regimes--though certainly not as warmly as socialist wannabe Pierre Trudeau.


----------



## CubaMark

Meanwhile, more insanity from the political Right in the USA over the 'threat' of Sharia Law. You seriously could not write this stuff... it's beyond what the most coked-out comedy sitcom writer could ever come up with....

*Idaho Could Lose Millions Over Sharia Law Fears*

Idaho is at risk of losing millions of dollars in federal child support funding after Legislature conservatives killed a measure that would have brought the state into compliance with federal rules. 

The opponents were concerned the legislation could have forced the state to uphold child support rulings made in other countries under Islamic law—a contention others said was baseless. Health officials said yesterday that without a revision they stand to lose access to programs that process payments and track down scofflaws in addition to $46 million in federal payouts. 

Without the federal tools, parents who are owed child support will have no means to receive it. About 80% of payments are taken from paychecks, but noncompliance would prevent Idaho from making such collections.

The conflict started last week after a House committee narrowly rejected a bill that had sailed through the Senate. The vote came after state Sen. Sheryl Nuxoll, a Cottonwood *Republican*, testified that federal regulations incorporated an international agreement that would subject the state to Sharia law. None of the nearly 80 countries involved in the treaty is under Sharia law. 

But Nuxoll and other skeptics said some involved nations informally recognize Sharia courts. The state AG's Office told the Rules Committee, however, that the bill allowed judges to reject cases that don't meet the state's standards. Even so, the committee voted 9-8 to nix the compliance bill, and the legislative session adjourned hours later, throwing the funding and programs into question.​
(Newser)


----------



## Macfury

The Bill as written violates the US Constitution. The US has never ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. 

Article I, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution states:



> _No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance_, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.


It also violates the Idaho Constitution.

Obama is offering federal funding as a bribe to get states to illegally by-pass the US Senate. The fault is that of the President alone, who should not have tied funding to an illegal act. Killing the bill was the right thing to do. It's unfortunate that the President is punishing mothers and children in the process.


----------



## SINC

bump


----------



## Macfury

More "Progressive" lunacy:

Teacher suspended for having class send get well notes to cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal | PennLive.com



> The other shoe has dropped in New Jersey over an elementary school teacher's misguided assignment to have her third graders pen get well notes to ailing Pa. cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal.
> 
> News of the unusual school work raised hackles in Philly, where the officer was murdered in 1981. And now, it has put the teacher's job at risk, according to our sister website, NJ.com, which writes:
> 
> Orange elementary school teacher Marylin Zuniga has been suspended, and school officials said they "vehemently deny" having prior knowledge of the assignment, saying Zuniga neither sought prior approval nor notified parents about this "unauthorized activity."


and...



> Philly.com reports that Zuniga tweeted Sunday about her pride in the assignment: "My 3rd graders wrote to Mumia to lift up his spirits as he is ill. #freemumia."
> 
> The cards were then delivered to Mumia by Johanna Fernandez, a professor of History at Baruch College in New York, who wrote on her Facebook page that she took a trip to State Correctional Institution at Mahanoy to visit the ailing inmate, Philly.com reported, adding:
> 
> "It had been a long time since we had seen Mumia smile," Fernandez wrote on Facebook. "He chuckled as he read excerpts from these touching letters."
> 
> Mumia, 60, was hospitalized in late March for complications stemming from diabetes.


----------



## Macfury

Bump


----------



## SINC

Odd we have to keep bumping posts as the final post so often bogs down.


----------



## Macfury

Bump--this thread won't stay lit!


----------



## FeXL

There's a surprise...

Largest Percentage of Granny Clinton Facebook Supporters are in … Baghdad



> At least 7 percent of her Facebook fans hail from the Iraqi capital, more than any other city, the news Web site Vocativ reported.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## FeXL

Oh, I bet that hurt...

In setback, Obama concedes Congress role on Iran deal



> U.S. President Barack Obama conceded on Tuesday that Congress will have the power to review a nuclear deal with Iran, reluctantly giving in to pressure from Republicans and some in his own party after they crafted a rare compromise demanding a say.
> 
> The role for the Republican-controlled Congress injects a new element of uncertainty into the delicate final stages of negotiations between major powers and Iran aimed at curbing Tehran's nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief.


----------



## FeXL

Further on TCWTCSO (The Candidate With The Correct Sexual Organs)...

Hillary’s Attempt at an Elizabeth Warren Impression Isn’t Going Well



> The early days of American political campaigns are always marked by a certain pantomime absurdity, but one could be forgiven nevertheless for wondering whether Hillary Clinton’s confused, staccato launch has been especially daffy. For an event that has been at least six years in the making, last Sunday’s confirmation was unusually schizophrenic and almost entirely inchoate. In the morning, we were told that Clinton would be demonstrating her tech savvy by announcing with a video and a tweet. Instead, we got an insipid e-mail from an aide.


Yep...


----------



## Macfury

It's pretty clear that there is some campaign causing traditional Democrat media to turn on Hillary Clinton--and it isn't coming from FOX News or traditional supporters of liberty. I wonder if it's simply Obama messing up her campaign in hopes that Warren will enter the race.


----------



## FeXL

Obama, Warmonger.

The US Carried Out 674 Military Operations in Africa Last Year. Did You Hear About Any of Them?



> For years, the US military has publicly insisted that its efforts in Africa are negligible, intentionally leaving the American people, not to mention most Africans, in the dark about the true size, scale, and scope of its operations there. AFRICOM public affairs personnel and commanders have repeatedly claimed no more than a “light footprint” on the continent. They shrink from talk of camps and outposts, claiming to have just one baseanywhere in Africa: Camp Lemonnier in the tiny nation of Djibouti. They don’t like to talk about military operations. They offer detailed information about only a tiny fraction of their training exercises. They refuse to disclose the locations where personnel have been stationed or even counts of the countries involved.


Further:



> During an interview, an AFRICOM spokesman once expressed his worry to me that even tabulating how many deployments the command has in Africa would offer a “skewed image” of US efforts. Behind closed doors, however, AFRICOM’s officers speak quite a different language. They have repeatedly asserted that the continent is an American “battlefield” and that—make no bones about it—they are already embroiled in an actual “war.”


Can't believe the old progressive Give-'Em-A-Hug thing wasn't working...


----------



## eMacMan

One of the problems I have trying to communicate about the IRS is that anyone who is not American will undoubtedly believe I am exaggerating when in fact I have to understate, knowing that no-one who is not American could possibly believe how bad it is.

This is an algorithm of Schedule D (Capital Gains) put together by a Mrs. Nguyen. Sadly it ignores the 20 or so times one has to check out some obscure form or another to see if any or all of those forms must be filled out in addition to Schedule D. 

Thank God I only had to fill this out once.

A taxing algorithm | bit-player


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> One of the problems I have trying to communicate about the IRS is that anyone who is not American will undoubtedly believe I am exaggerating when in fact I have to understate, knowing that no-one who is not American could possibly believe how bad it is.
> 
> This is an algorithm of Schedule D (Capital Gains) put together by a Mrs. Nguyen. Sadly it ignores the 20 or so times one has to check out some obscure form or another to see if any or all of those forms must be filled out in addition to Schedule D.
> 
> Thank God I only had to fill this out once.
> 
> A taxing algorithm | bit-player


Wow. Luckily, I have no capital gains to report. What a mess.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Wow. Luckily, I have no capital gains to report. What a mess.


The only thing I was certain of was that I did not owe any tax. My wife and I spent at least 8 hours on it and God only knows if we got everything right. Had any of those gains been in Canada it would have been even worse!


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> The only thing I was certain of was that I did not owe any tax. My wife and I spent at least 8 hours on it and God only knows if we got everything right. Had any of those gains been in Canada it would have been even worse!


Filed my taxes to the US and Canada early this year ............. just in case. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

That's gonna leave a mark...

NYT: Developing world abandoning Obama’s green agenda, turning to China for help



> The New York Times reports that the developing world is abandoning green tainted US backed global banking institutions, and is looking to China for infrastructure finance.


More:



> Support for the new Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, and its agenda free brand of capitalism, extends well beyond the developing world. All Asian and major non-Asian countries, except Japan and America, have agreed to join the new bank, with countries like Australia being offered a leading role in the new institution.


Further:



> _The reason for the defiance is not hard to find: *The West’s environmental priorities are blocking their access to energy.*_​


Bold from the link.

All I can say is, "Good". About time some of this came back to bite him on the backside...


----------



## FeXL

Never really heard of her prior to this. Many things sound positive.

Fiorina Has Hillary Defenders Worried



> A long parade of presidential contenders presented themselves before a convention of New Hampshire Republicans this weekend. But only one was a former top business executive, and only one was a woman, and they were the same candidate. Carly Fiorina is no doubt getting attention because of her unique background, but more and more people are staying to listen because she has something fresh to say.


More:



> “For the first time in U.S. history, we are destroying more businesses than we are creating,” Fiorina told her audience in Nashua. *“The weight of the government is literally crushing the potential of the people of this nation.”* Electing standard-issue politicians will no longer do, she said. “Managers are people who do the best they can within the existing system. Leaders are people who do not accept what is broken just because it has been that way for a long time.”


M'bold.

A breath of fresh air?


----------



## Macfury

Wasn't that the same Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank that Obama warned his "allies" not to join? He's treated America's friends shoddily, so it's no surprise.

In the midst of Obama's failing international agenda, I note that the poor boob is still declaring that "global warming" is the planet's worst threat:

Obama: "No greater threat" than climate change - CBS News


----------



## FeXL

I believe it's the same one.

Just noticed that you'd posted a link to the NYT article over in the GHG thread a couple days back. Apologies for the duplication.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Never really heard of her prior to this. Many things sound positive.


I remember her when she was CEO of Hewlett Packard. She's really in fire these days, correctly telling that idiot governor of California that the state's drought is man made through lack of infrastructure.


----------



## eMacMan

I think FATCA was a huge motivating factor behind the Asian Investment Bank.

FATCA is actually part of a pincer movement. It's underlying intent is to give the IRS a sledge hammer to wield against foreign Financial Institutions. The main reason these FIs are vulnerable is their massive investments stateside. 

What the Asian system does is remove that hammer. If a Financial Institution has no stateside investments or income sources, the IRS has nothing it can seize and no capital flow it can withhold.

The other side of that pincer is made up of IRS informational forms such as FBARs, 8938s, and 3520s. If an individual files an FBAR or 8938 listing account XYZ and his Financial Institution does not file a corresponding FBAR (FINcen114) then the IRS can fine that Financial Institution $1,000,000 for each such account even if an account is only $15,000. The fine can be collected by seizing or freezing most or even all of that Financial Institutions American assets.

Of course if a bank files an FBAR for an account and the account owner does not, the IRS can force the bank to freeze or even seize that account. The penalty for not filing those informational forms is the greater of $10,000 or half the maximum account balance for each year not filed. Yep penalties apply even if the individual does not owe the US a dime in taxes.

By signing the FATCA IGA with the IRS, the government of Canada gave the IRS its blessing to commit such highway robbery against Canadian Financial Institutions and individual Canadian Citizens.

Please check out:
The Isaac Brock Society | Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad
Maple Sandbox | A gathering place for people fighting FATCA, FBAR and US citizenship-based taxation

To donate to the constitutional challenge:
ADCS | Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty


----------



## Macfury

Wisconsin Democrats abuse police powers to harass Republican supporters:

Hunting witches in Wisconsin | New York Post



> Shouting officers at the front door in pre-dawn raids, at least once with a battering ram. Armed police rifling through and carting off their belongings, down to and including a daughter’s computer. And warnings to stay silent.
> 
> The targets were told not to tell their lawyers, or their friends, or their neighbors. When armed cops storm the house next door, people often wonder why, but the targets were forbidden from discussing what happened. As French points out, this wasn’t the right to remain silent and avoid self-incrimination, but an order to remain silent and not to make any professions of innocence.


----------



## FeXL

That's gonna leave a mark...

Surprise! Shady Clinton Foundation Took in Millions from Russian Uranium Company, Kept Donations Hidden From Obama White House



> _And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, *Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin* that was promoting Uranium One stock._​


Bold from the link.

Some won't see it as bad, however. After all, Bill's Wife has the most politically correct sexual organs...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Uranium Hillary.

The U.S. Constitution Actually Bans Hillary’s Foreign Government Payola



> The Washington Post reported last week that the tax-exempt foundation run by Bill and Hillary Clinton accepted money from seven foreign governments while Hillary served as U.S. Secretary of State (it’s unclear how much foreign money the organization accepted while Hillary was a U.S. Senator). Super shady, right? It’s worse than that, though, because Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution actually bans foreign payola for U.S. officials.
> 
> The constitutional ban on foreign cash payments to U.S. officials is known as the Emoluments Clause and originated from Article VI of the Articles of Confederation. The purpose of the clause was to prevent foreign governments from buying influence in the U.S. by paying off U.S. government officials.


And, not only that, but look at the breakdown of the Clinton Foundation expenses from 2008-2012:



> Between 2009 and 2012, the Clinton Foundation raised over $500 million dollars according to a review of IRS documents by The Federalist (2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008). *A measly 15 percent of that, or $75 million, went towards programmatic grants. More than $25 million went to fund travel expenses. Nearly $110 million went toward employee salaries and benefits. And a whopping $290 million during that period — nearly 60 percent of all money raised — was classified merely as “other expenses.”* Official IRS forms do not list cigar or dry-cleaning expenses as a specific line item. The Clinton Foundation may well be saving lives, but it seems odd that the costs of so many life-saving activities would be classified by the organization itself as just random, miscellaneous expenses.


Why isn't the IRS all over this? What would happen to you or I if we submitted our tax forms claiming 60% of our expenses as "other". Can you say Audit City?

Amazing.

Yet people will still vote for her for no other reason than she has the politically correct sexual organs.


----------



## FeXL

If Shrillary was Republican, MSM would be all over this...

In 2013, The Clinton Foundation Only Spent 10 Percent Of Its Budget On Charitable Grants



> If you take a narrower, and more realistic, view of the tax-exempt group’s expenditures by excluding obvious overhead expenses and focusing on direct grants to charities and governments, the numbers look much worse. In 2013, for example, only 10 percent of the Clinton Foundation’s expenditures were for direct charitable grants. The amount it spent on charitable grants–$8.8 million–was dwarfed by the $17.2 million it cumulatively spent on travel, rent, and office supplies. Between 2011 and 2013, the organization spent only 9.9 percent of the $252 million it collected on direct charitable grants.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> If Shrillary was Republican, MSM would be all over this...
> 
> In 2013, The Clinton Foundation Only Spent 10 Percent Of Its Budget On Charitable Grants



Somewhat misrepresentative in that the foundation puts much of its energy into encouraging direct donations to whatever cause they may be pimping. That said it is still a very expensive pimp.


----------



## CubaMark

_Well - if nothing else, this will certainly make the debates interesting....
_
*Bernie Sanders is running for president*



One of the most progressive members of the United States Senate will seek the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) will launch his presidential campaign on Thursday, Vermont Public Radio reports. The 73-year-old self-proclaimed socialist, who is technically an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, will become the first official challenger for the Democratic nomination to former first lady, US senator and secretary of state Hillary Clinton when he delivers a short statement officially declaring his entry into the race.

Sanders' campaign is expected to focus heavily on the growing gap between rich and poor and the contraction of America's middle class, which is shrinking even as corporations and the wealthy grow richer than ever.​(DigitalJournal)


----------



## Macfury

Well, I'll give the old fool some credit for guts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Well, I'll give the old fool some credit for guts.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Well, I'll give the old fool some credit for guts.


GAWD! If he wants to throw money away I'll take it.

As a side comment, I'm wondering if Ms. Clinton has repeated her error of announcing too soon and she hasn't swept away the air of entitlement that washed away her chances 8 years ago........ Thoughts.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> GAWD! If he wants to throw money away I'll take it.
> 
> As a side comment, I'm wondering if Ms. Clinton has repeated her error of announcing too soon and she hasn't swept away the air of entitlement that washed away her chances 8 years ago........ Thoughts.


The media machine does not want Hillary to run, so they're letting her know right now that she is unwanted by opening the bag of dirty secrets just far enough that she knows what will happen if she keeps going. If she winds up staying in the race and becoming the nominee, they'll carry her water, but it's going to be tough with the level of scandal the Clintons have collected over the years.

On foreign policy, Hillary must run against her own dismal record. On the economy, she must run against Obama's dismal record. Every attempt she has made to address the deficiencies of the economy have been met by stern corrections from the White House: "What do you mean small business growth has stalled? We've created more small businesses than any administration in history!" The egomaniac-in-chief won't allow her to campaign without interference.

That aside, Hillary's demeanour and sense of entitlement are a roaring presence. Her attempt to launch a campaign as a woman with a "common touch" has failed miserably.


----------



## CubaMark

*Integrity Disqualifies Sanders for White House*

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’s potential bid for the 2016 Presidency was declared over, on Monday, before it even began, because of a key feature of the American political system that makes a person with integrity ineligible for the White House.

According to some experts, the electoral system has developed a number of safeguards over the past few decades to prevent someone with independence and backbone from occupying the Presidency.

“Bernie Sanders’s failure to become a member of either major political party excludes him from the network of cronyism and backroom deals required under our system to be elected,” said Davis Logsdon, a political scientist at the University of Minnesota. “Though that failure alone would disqualify Sanders, the fact that he is not beholden to a major corporate interest or investment bank would also make him ineligible.”


Because of his ineligibility, Logsdon said, the Vermont Senator would be unable to fund-raise the one billion dollars required under the current system to run for President. “The best source of a billion dollars is billionaires, and Sanders has alienated them,” he said. “Clearly he didn’t think this through.”

Logsdon said that Sanders might persist in his quest for the White House despite his ineligibility but that such an effort would be doomed to fail. “Our political system has been refined over the years specifically to keep people like Bernie Sanders out of the White House,” he said. “The system works.”​
(The New Yorker)


----------



## FeXL

<sniff> 'Bout right...

Democratic Philosophy Explained...


----------



## Macfury

Did he get some integrity today? How much did it cost him?



CubaMark said:


> *Integrity Disqualifies Sanders for White House*
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’s potential bid for the 2016 Presidency was declared over, on Monday, before it even began, because of a key feature of the American political system that makes a person with integrity ineligible for the White House.
> 
> According to some experts, the electoral system has developed a number of safeguards over the past few decades to prevent someone with independence and backbone from occupying the Presidency.
> 
> “Bernie Sanders’s failure to become a member of either major political party excludes him from the network of cronyism and backroom deals required under our system to be elected,” said Davis Logsdon, a political scientist at the University of Minnesota. “Though that failure alone would disqualify Sanders, the fact that he is not beholden to a major corporate interest or investment bank would also make him ineligible.”
> 
> 
> Because of his ineligibility, Logsdon said, the Vermont Senator would be unable to fund-raise the one billion dollars required under the current system to run for President. “The best source of a billion dollars is billionaires, and Sanders has alienated them,” he said. “Clearly he didn’t think this through.”
> 
> Logsdon said that Sanders might persist in his quest for the White House despite his ineligibility but that such an effort would be doomed to fail. “Our political system has been refined over the years specifically to keep people like Bernie Sanders out of the White House,” he said. “The system works.”​
> (The New Yorker)


----------



## CubaMark

Stop boxing from the shadows, MF. What are your beefs with Sanders?


----------



## Macfury

He's an unadulterated whack job playing the politics of envy. I'll give him this--he makes Hillary look like a model of common sense.



CubaMark said:


> Stop boxing from the shadows, MF. What are your beefs with Sanders?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's an unadulterated whack job playing the politics of envy. I'll give him this--he makes Hillary look like a model of common sense.


Interesting. A great many people said the same thing about Ron Paul and his libertarian views when he ran for president. 

Now that some big money is coming Sen. Sanders way, there is no telling what the primary race will be like. We shall see.

Christopher Pearson, who filed with the FEC to create a "Draft Bernie" super PAC in January, 2014 stated "I'm relieved. I think the country needs Bernie's message."


Most of Pearson's efforts to get Sanders in the race came by way of social media outreach. His super PAC only raised $6,819. Compare that to Clinton's "Ready for Hillary" operation, which raised more than $12 million in anticipation of her run.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. A great many people said the same thing about Ron Paul and his libertarian views when he ran for president.


They said he played the politics of envy? Don't remember that.



Dr.G. said:


> IChristopher Pearson, who filed with the FEC to create a "Draft Bernie" super PAC in January, 2014 stated "I'm relieved. I think the country needs Bernie's message."


Just read _Animal Farm_ instead. You'll get Bernie's message in a more entertaining form.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Just read _Animal Farm_ instead. You'll get Bernie's message in a more entertaining form.


“Four legs good, two legs better! All Animals Are Equal. But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others.”


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> “Four legs good, two legs better! All Animals Are Equal. But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others.”


"Beasts of England! Beasts of Ireland...!"


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> "Beasts of England! Beasts of Ireland...!"


True. :clap: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Holbert is on the money!


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders raises $1.5 million in 24 hours - CNNPolitics.com

The big money is starting to flow his way now .................... Sadly, this will mean he can't denounce billionaires anymore.

"The average donation was $43.54." The Koch brothers sent him $1.28.


----------



## Macfury

I'm appalled at the Koch Brothers... for backing this scoundrel!



Dr.G. said:


> Bernie Sanders raises $1.5 million in 24 hours - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> The big money is starting to flow his way now .................... Sadly, this will mean he can't denounce billionaires anymore.
> 
> "The average donation was $43.54." The Koch brothers sent him $1.28.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm appalled at the Koch Brothers... for backing this scoundrel!


Right on, Brother Macfury. Bernie Sanders was quoted as saying on ABC's Sunday show "This Week" that the "Koch brothers will soon be more powerful than the Democratic And Republican Parties. The Koch Brothers have their vision and I have my vision."

Sanders also said that "I fear very much that this country is losing its democratic foundations and moving toward an oligarchic formal society where a handful of billionaires will control not only the economy but the political life of this nation." But a look at donations to Sanders' bid for the presidency reveals at least $694 came from unions members based in Vermont. 

Sanders is being bought and paid for by people who want more than the basic minimum wage. Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked an amendment to the GOP budget that called for increasing the minimum wage. 

The amendment offered by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) failed in a 48-52 vote.

The amendment would have created a deficit neutral reserve fund, essentially a budgetary placeholder, that "promoted a substantial increase in the minimum wage." 

It did not specify how high the federal minimum wage, which now sits at $7.25, should be raised. However, Fox News discovered that Sanders wanted the federal minimum wage to be increased to $10 an hour.

Imagine what this could to the various business interests controlled by the Koch brothers?

Yes, he is a "scoundrel" as you say. $10 an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :greedy: XX)


----------



## Macfury

I would rather live in a country where the Koch Brothers were co-presidents than one with Bernie Sanders at the helm.

The minimum wage was never intended to be a working wage for anyone. These jobs were meant to be entry level positions that people would take to gain experience or to work through college. Seems people like Bernie Sanders want to pretend that the minimum wage should be enough to buy someone a house and raise a family.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would rather live in a country where the Koch Brothers were co-presidents than one with Bernie Sanders at the helm.
> 
> The minimum wage was never intended to be a working wage for anyone. These jobs were meant to be entry level positions that people would take to gain experience or to work through college. Seems people like Bernie Sanders want to pretend that the minimum wage should be enough to buy someone a house and raise a family.


Damn right, mon ami. When I first started working and paying into Social Security back in 1964, the minimum wage was $1.25. Now, it is all the way up to $7.25. That is nearly a 600% increase. Who can expect a six-fold increase in wages over a 51 year working career??????? Certainly not the "Masters of Industry" such as the Koch brothers. Their wealth was earned by the sweat of their brow and their wits.

The net worth of America’s wealthiest people has risen slightly in the years since the financial crisis. The average net worth of a Forbes 400 member is $5.7 billion, up from $5 billion last year, a mere 14%. Brothers Charles and David Koch, co-owners of Koch Industries Inc., are worth $42 billion each. Just think of the massive amount of wealth that trickles down to their 100,000 workers who earn, on average, nearly $30,000 a year????? This is twice what a worker earning minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, earns. Luckily, for them, their various companies are not unionized. Fred Koch, father of the Koch brothers, was fond of saying "If you don't come to work on Sunday, don't bother to come to work on Monday." That is truly the American spirit. 

And what does Bernie Sanders want to create????? A US that has financial equality amongst all the citizens of the US. We both know what that means!!! 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Damn right, mon ami. When I first started working and paying into Social Security back in 1964, the minimum wage was $1.25.


What does Social Security have to do with it? 



Dr.G. said:


> Now, it is all the way up to $7.25. That is nearly a 600% increase. Who can expect a six-fold increase in wages over a 51 year working career???????


It's keeping place with inflation as a starter wage. Adults are expected to make something better of themselves following their teen years.



Dr.G. said:


> Certainly not the "Masters of Industry" such as the Koch brothers. Their wealth was earned by the sweat of their brow and their wits.


Primarily their wits.



Dr.G. said:


> The net worth of America’s wealthiest people has risen slightly in the years since the financial crisis. The average net worth of a Forbes 400 member is $5.7 billion, up from $5 billion last year, a mere 14%.


Thank the Obama stimulus and "quantitative easing" for that. Government money is being plowed straight into the stock market.


----------



## Dr.G.

When you got your working papers and had a real job, even at minimum wage, you had to start to pay into Social Security. Any job that did not require you to pay into Social Security was not considered a "real" job.





Macfury said:


> What does Social Security have to do with it?
> 
> 
> 
> It's keeping place with inflation as a starter wage. Adults are expected to make something better of themselves following their teen years.
> 
> 
> 
> Primarily their wits.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank the Obama stimulus and "quantitative easing" for that. Government money is being plowed straight into the stock market.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> When you got your working papers and had a real job, even at minimum wage, you had to start to pay into Social Security. Any job that did not require you to pay into Social Security was not considered a "real" job.


Thank goodness you made something of yourself and never expected to raise a family on the minimum wage.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Thank goodness you made something of yourself and never expected to raise a family on the minimum wage.


Since I turned 16, the longest period of time that I had no "real" work where I was paid a wage and had to pay into Social Security and file income tax forms was 5 1/2 months. All during my university years I was on work study or graduate assistantships.

Many people don't "expect" to raise a family on minimum wage, but many are in this situation. Luckily, even though I shall retire from teaching at Memorial University after 38 1/2 years, I shall still be able to teach for an additional year or two as a sessional. Personally, I am not really ready to fully retire. Luckily, I have that option, while many people don't have the option for full-time work beyond the minimum. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Many people don't "expect" to raise a family on minimum wage, but many are in this situation.


A high school education often helps to solve that problem. If you are doing work that has little value to society, society is unlikely to reward you with a wage you will appreciate.


----------



## FeXL

As much as I'd like to pile on the puns here, this not only echoes what I've alluded to earlier in this thread but also really just speaks for itself...

Meet the Vagina Voters



> "I intend to vote with my vagina."


Further:



> Kate Harding, the vagina voter in question, isn't only going to vote with her vag—she's also going to tell everyone about it. "I intend to vote with my vagina. Unapologetically. Enthusiastically... And I intend to talk about it," she wrote in Dame.
> 
> She thinks Hillary would be a great president because she "knows what it's like to menstruate, be pregnant, [and] give birth."


I see. All three of which are intrinsic to operating the highest office on the planet...

And you think Alberta is in trouble?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> As much as I'd like to pile on the puns here, this not only echoes what I've alluded to earlier in this thread but also really just speaks for itself...
> 
> Meet the Vagina Voters
> 
> 
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> I see. All three of which are intrinsic to operating the highest office on the planet...
> 
> And you think Alberta is in trouble?


An interesting take as the vast majority of women tend to be anti-war, after all it could well be their sons and daughters who are exterminated, maimed or come home insane. Somehow a warmonger such as Billary is going to appeal to them?


----------



## Dr.G.

Texas Governor Deploys State Guard To Stave Off Obama Takeover : It's All Politics : NPR

Remember the Alamo!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Texas Governor Deploys State Guard To Stave Off Obama Takeover : It's All Politics : NPR


The stupidity. It huuuuurrrrrtttsss!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

It's a shame that President Obama has sowed this much distrust throughout the country.



Dr.G. said:


> Texas Governor Deploys State Guard To Stave Off Obama Takeover : It's All Politics : NPR
> 
> Remember the Alamo!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's a shame that President Obama has sowed this much distrust throughout the country.


I can't see blaming Pres. Obama for someone's strange thoughts.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> The stupidity. It huuuuurrrrrtttsss!!!!!


I agree. Can you imagine anyone so stupid as to bringing weapons to a cartoon contest _in Texas_ to kill one of the infidels?

Shots Fired at Mohammed Art Contest: Officer Down, Two Suspects Dead, Reports Claims Explosives in Area



> Shots rang out this evening at the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, Texas during the Mohammed Art Exhibit and Contest. A law enforcement officer was shot and both suspects have been killed.


One Dead Suspect ID’d After Attack at Mohammed Drawing Event in Texas



> Two of these maggots are dead and one has been identified after being put down following an attack at a Mohammed drawing event in Garland, TX, Sunday night.


ISIS? Ya'll don't say...

ISIS Claims Responsibility for Texas Attack; Media Blames the Victim, Terrorist Called a ‘Good Boy’



> Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack in Texas at a contest to draw cartoons of the prophet Muhammad, according to a report.


Even gots me a coupla cartoons...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I can't see blaming Pres. Obama for someone's strange thoughts.


President Obama is the most divisive president in modern history. People simply no longer trust him.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> President Obama is the most divisive president in modern history. People simply no longer trust him.


Sorry, I disagree. There are millions from the "free iPhone" set who would elect him to a third term if they could.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Sorry, I disagree. There are millions from the "free iPhone" set who would elect him to a third term if they could.


Yes, and they're on the other side of the divide Obama has created.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> President Obama is the most divisive president in modern history. People simply no longer trust him.


He's a politician! Only an idiot would trust him. Ditto Jeb Bush, or Hillary or any other presidential hopeful you care to mention.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yes, and they're on the other side of the divide Obama has created.


No argument.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Baltimore problem...

20.7% of Jobs in Baltimore Are Government Jobs



> Of the 364,200 total jobs in Baltimore City in March, 75,500—or 20.7 percent—were jobs working for the government. That included 39,400 state government jobs, 26,000 local government jobs, and 10,100 federal government jobs.
> 
> By contrast, there were only 11,600 manufacturing jobs in Baltimore City, according to BLS. That means government had 6.5 times as many employees in Baltimore City as all of the manufacturers located in the city.


How many underprivileged black kids d'ya s'pose had one of those precious government jobs?


----------



## FeXL

More, yet.

In Baltimore, Reporters Catch "Protesters" Spinning False Testimony About a "Police Shooting" in Real Time



> What Action News Shep reported breathlessly as a police shooting appears to be nothing more than the police making an arrest without incident of a criminal carrying a revolver.
> 
> Shep Smith, who of course hyped the **** out of this because he's a dishonest leftist agitator (remember the Superdome?), is now eating huge piles of **** over this.


Ummm... Language warning?


----------



## FeXL

And this, further on the ISIS attack in Garland.

Ace is stunned. Again, language warning.

Washington Post "Social Change Reporter" On Garland Shooting: _"If the event was intended as bait, it worked."_



> If someone starts shooting up the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the gay cross-dressing attack on Christians, will the Washington Post likewise write that those shot down had held themselves out to be "bait"?


Amazing...


----------



## CubaMark

*George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason*










*Richard Nixon was a traitor.*

The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a "conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will.

Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them to refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.

Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation.

Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam peace talks.​(CommonDreams)


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> And this, further on the ISIS attack in Garland.
> 
> Ace is stunned. Again, language warning.
> 
> Washington Post "Social Change Reporter" On Garland Shooting: _"If the event was intended as bait, it worked."_
> 
> Amazing...


A "free speech event". Yeah... 

Pamela Geller is about as wingnuttish as they come, with a long history of inciting hatred. Her website material is up there with the _National Enquirer_. 

There is zero doubt in my mind that the event was intended not as a 'defense of free speech' but as an incitement to violence. This is exactly the response the organisers were hoping for, as it serves their purposes.


----------



## Macfury

Did this just show up on your news feed a year late?

Up next, CubaMark exposes 1984 Democratic presidential candidate Jesse Jackson's violation of the _Logan Act_ by negotiating with Cuban president Fidel Castro.



* * * * * * * * 



Is that crickets I hear?




CubaMark said:


> *George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Richard Nixon was a traitor.*
> 
> The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a "conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will.
> 
> Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them to refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
> 
> Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation.
> 
> Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam peace talks.​(CommonDreams)


----------



## Macfury

You either believe in free speech or you don't CM-even when it isn't what you would hope for. I guess you don't. 



CubaMark said:


> A "free speech event". Yeah...
> 
> Pamela Geller is about as wingnuttish as they come, with a long history of inciting hatred. Her website material is up there with the _National Enquirer_.
> 
> There is zero doubt in my mind that the event was intended not as a 'defense of free speech' but as an incitement to violence. This is exactly the response the organisers were hoping for, as it serves their purposes.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> A "free speech event". Yeah...
> 
> Pamela Geller is about as wingnuttish as they come, with a long history of inciting hatred. Her website material is up there with the _National Enquirer_.


So, what's the thrust here? Because you think she's a wingnut, it should be open season, no bag limit? Are you f-ing serious?? You sound just like the freaks & weirdos Ace talked about in my other link.

As to her website, dunno. Have to take an expert's word for it, never been. However, same question: Does that mean she deserves to get shot?



CubaMark said:


> There is zero doubt in my mind that the event was intended not as a 'defense of free speech' but as an incitement to violence.


I disagree entirely. However, just for the sake of discussion, let's assume that you are correct. Same question, third time: Does Pam Geller deserve to get shot for drawing a cartoon of Mohamed?

Tell me you don't truly think that. 



CubaMark said:


> This is exactly the response the organisers were hoping for, as it serves their purposes


Yes, I s'pose so. The world is short two religious bigots today. 

However, I'm sure you have a completely different take. Please, enlighten us...


----------



## heavyall

Even if the event was intended as bait, it would not and could not work without the jihadi element ready and willing to kill people just for drawing pictures.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Did this just show up on your news feed a year late?
> 
> Up next, CubaMark exposes 1984 Democratic presidential candidate Jesse Jackson's violation of the _Logan Act_ by negotiating with Cuban president Fidel Castro.


Christ. How does that keep happening? Sorry, folks.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> disagree entirely. However, just for the sake of discussion, let's assume that you are correct. Same question, third time: Does Pam Geller deserve to get shot for drawing a cartoon of Mohamed?
> 
> Tell me you don't truly think that.


I "truly" think that it's sad you would suggest such a thing. Geller of course does not deserve to be shot. She does deserve to fade off into obscurity.

As for free speech - there are limits, as you all well know. The classic "yelling fire in a cinema", etc. Free speech with a clue between your ears, that's fine. But Geller appears to want to create violence. She sure as hell wasn't holding that event to build bridges between cultures.

She had the _right_ to hold that event. Sadly, she didn't have the common sense to not go through with it. But as I said - Geller's aims were served by this violent act.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> As for free speech - there are limits, as you all well know. The classic "yelling fire in a cinema", etc.


That doesn't limit free speech--it just holds you responsible for the chaos that ensues for misleading the audience.



CubaMark said:


> She had the _right_ to hold that event. Sadly, she didn't have the common sense to not go through with it. But as I said - Geller's aims were served by this violent act.


You can only guess what Geller was thinking. My assumption is that she wanted to draw a line in the sand regarding just how far free speech extends.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That doesn't limit free speech--it just holds you responsible for the chaos that ensues for misleading the audience.


...and who is holding Geller responsible for the aftermath? She created the context in which this occurred, intentionally. 



Macfury said:


> You can only guess what Geller was thinking. My assumption is that she wanted to draw a line in the sand regarding just how far free speech extends.


Yes, a "guess" based upon her very obvious history of inciting hatred.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ...and who is holding Geller responsible for the aftermath? She created the context in which this occurred, intentionally.


Nobody, I hope. The difference in he two scenarios is that in the theatre, you are lying to people to create the potential for injury. In Geller's event, the assailants came of their own free will.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> I "truly" think that it's sad you would suggest such a thing. Geller of course does not deserve to be shot.


You make it sound (and continue to do so) like it was her fault. That's why I'm looking for clarification. 



CubaMark said:


> She does deserve to fade off into obscurity.


Why? Because she's controversial? Because she doesn't fit your preconceived notion of "acceptable"? Some other reason?



CubaMark said:


> As for free speech - there are limits, as you all well know. The classic "yelling fire in a cinema", etc. Free speech with a clue between your ears, that's fine.


Free speech is free speech. Period. Not limited to, but including, yelling fire in a theatre. Would I agree with such actions? Nope. But I'd defend to the death her right to do so.



CubaMark said:


> But Geller appears to want to create violence. She sure as hell wasn't holding that event to build bridges between cultures.


Pardon me?  She didn't create the violence, some bigot did. If they hadn't shown up, there would have been no shooting. Let's look at cause & effect. Jeezuz...

Plus, do you get the feeling anywhere that Islam wants to build bridges with anyone? Please, cite examples.



CubaMark said:


> She had the _right_ to hold that event. Sadly, she didn't have the common sense to not go through with it. But as I said - Geller's aims were served by this violent act.


So, again, it's all her fault because she chose to endorse an event that promoted freedom of speech.

Fukc me. That is some twisted ****e...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, again, it's all her fault because she chose to endorse an event that promoted freedom of speech.


You aren't 'getting it'. The event, IMHO, had nothing to do with promoting freedom of speech. It had everything to do with inciting violence. Pushing buttons. Aggravating already-aggrieved parties to react against the event in some way. That two twisted individuals did so violently served Geller's purposes. She is responsible for the outcome.

If Geller thought that nothing would come of holding an event like this, if it was simply an innocent "promoting freedom" event, why bother hiring 40+ off-duty police as armed-to-the-teeth security?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> If Geller thought that nothing would come of holding an event like this, if it was simply an innocent "promoting freedom" event, why bother hiring 40+ off-duty police as armed-to-the-teeth security?


Geller certainly knew that the event might attract unwanted attention. However, it was still an exercise of free speech. I think the guards were hired to ensure that nobody bothered them. An actual attack was still probably a shock.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> You aren't 'getting it'.


No, _you_ aren't getting it.

It matters not if the event was planned to go this way, if it was blind outhouse luck that two Islamists happened to be driving by with weapons in their car during a free speech event or whatever twisted scenario you care to dream up.

What matters here is that, despite the fact that Geller did nothing illegal, you are *blaming the victim for the crime*.

I cannot distill it down any further. 

"You're Honour, on the count of rape, we, the members of the jury, find the accused not guilty because it is patently obvious that the plaintiff was clothed in a manner clearly designed to be provocative & elicit a response. She was a slut & was looking for it."

Does that sound acceptable to you? 

Get a grip...


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> If Geller thought that nothing would come of holding an event like this, if it was simply an innocent "promoting freedom" event, why bother hiring 40+ off-duty police as armed-to-the-teeth security?


Hey, if all Jug Ears is doing is out playing a round of golf, why is the golf course cleared & crawling with armed Secret Service agents?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> No, _you_ aren't getting it.
> 
> It matters not if the event was planned to go this way, if it was blind outhouse luck that two Islamists happened to be driving by with weapons in their car during a free speech event or whatever twisted scenario you care to dream up.
> 
> What matters here is that, despite the fact that Geller did nothing illegal, you are *blaming the victim for the crime*.
> 
> I cannot distill it down any further.
> 
> "You're Honour, on the count of rape, we, the members of the jury, find the accused not guilty because it is patently obvious that the plaintiff was clothed in a manner clearly designed to be provocative & elicit a response. She was a slut & was looking for it."
> 
> Does that sound acceptable to you?
> 
> Get a grip...


I would agree but only if your response would be the same had Geller's target had been Jews rather than Muslims.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What matters here is that, despite the fact that Geller did nothing illegal, you are *blaming the victim for the crime*.


No. I am blaming a provocateur for deliberately pushing the buttons and hoping for an incident, in an attempt to justify her continued bigotry and hatred-spewing.



FeXL said:


> "You're Honour, on the count of rape, we, the members of the jury, find the accused not guilty because it is patently obvious that the plaintiff was clothed in a manner clearly designed to be provocative & elicit a response. She was a slut & was looking for it."


You win for the most offensive analogy of the month. Too sad.... XX)


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I would agree but only if your response would be the same had Geller's target had been Jews rather than Muslims.


Christians, Jews--anyone. I support the rights of left-wing kooks to spout their dogma, even if I find it offensive. It's particularly at those moments that I am offended that I recognize the propriety of supporting those rights--when it would be easiest to just let those rights be eroded because I don't support the message.


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> No. I am blaming a provocateur for deliberately pushing the buttons and hoping for an incident, in an attempt to justify her continued bigotry and hatred-spewing.


As I said, it's all her fault. Good. If that uppity white trash woman would have just knowed her place was to stay home an' cook & clean & look after the chillens, none o' this woulda happened. Got it.

Now that we've clarified that, drawing a cartoon of Mohamed is "bigoted" & "hatred spewing"? How so? Were the murders at Charlie Hebdo justified then, in your eyes? Were their cartoonists bigots & hate-spewers? What about all the other religions Charlie Hebdo satirized? Is it just Mohamed that is above satire or are other religions & religious figure-heads on the list? Why or why not? Was the person who created "P!ss Christ" bigoted & hateful? Again, why or why not?

And, in what category do you classify intolerant, bigoted, hate-spewing Islamic murderers, rapists, etc.?



CubaMark said:


> You win for the most offensive analogy of the month. Too sad.... XX)


And the flak is always heaviest over the target. My analogy hits on all the right notes. That's why it pisses you off. The fact that it offends you but you refuse to see the connection between it & what you are saying tells me everything I need to know.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> I would agree but only if your response would be the same had Geller's target had been Jews rather than Muslims.


Unlike some on these boards, I don't have double standards. One set for me, another for thee: not gonna happen. Free speech is free speech. And, while it pains me to see that right abused by some like it is, it's still free speech.

Jews, Mormons, Zoroastrianists, whatever. Curious thing is, haven't heard about any of them walking around shooting people because of a lousy satirical cartoon. I am willing to be corrected on that, though...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You win for the most offensive analogy of the month. Too sad.... XX)


That analogy was right on the money, and the logical extension of your attitude to free speech. 

The typical line from the spousal abuser: "If she hadn't provoked me, I wouldn't have hit her." Would you have cops harangue the victim to ensure that she didn't intend to provoke the perp?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> As I said, it's all her fault. Good. If that uppity white trash woman would have just knowed her place was to stay home an' cook & clean & look after the chillens, none o' this woulda happened. Got it.


You may want to consider therapy. The stuff you come up with comes from a very strange place.



FeXL said:


> Now that we've clarified that, drawing a cartoon of Mohamed is "bigoted" & "hatred spewing"? How so?


Juan Williams, on FOX News, said this about Geller:

*I think if you want to have a serious conversation here about Ms. Geller, that she’s like a pyromaniac who goes before the judge and says, “Oh, yeah, we’re setting those fires just to see how fast the fire department could respond.”*​


FeXL said:


> My analogy hits on all the right notes. That's why it pisses you off. The fact that it offends you but you refuse to see the connection between it & what you are saying tells me everything I need to know.


Um, no. It's not. And the fact that you believe this is disturbing. (also, FYI, I'm not "pissed off". I'm perplexed at the mind of a right-winger who is clearly troubled)


----------



## Macfury

You need to address the issues, not attack the messenger.

Williams' comment is off base, since Geller did not light the fire to which police responded. More properly, Geller would have said: "We want the world to know that even if you see a pile of kindling on the ground, you're not entitled to bring a match to the party."




CubaMark said:


> You may want to consider therapy. The stuff you come up with comes from a very strange place.
> 
> 
> 
> Juan Williams, on FOX News, said this about Geller:
> 
> *I think if you want to have a serious conversation here about Ms. Geller, that she’s like a pyromaniac who goes before the judge and says, “Oh, yeah, we’re setting those fires just to see how fast the fire department could respond.”*​
> 
> 
> Um, no. It's not. And the fact that you believe this is disturbing. (also, FYI, I'm not "pissed off". I'm perplexed at the mind of a right-winger who is clearly troubled)


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> The stuff you come up with comes from a very strange place.


No argument: I'm paraphrasing you. Despite your 27 ways from hell to twist this into something else, all you are saying is that if she hadn't shown up, none of this would have happened. Ergo, it is her fault. Plain & simple. It's also pure, undiluted bull$hit.

It's Lincoln's fault he was shot in Ford's Theater in Washington, DC. The fact that he was going to be there incited John Wilkes Booth to shoot him. Shoulda stayed home.

It's Kennedy's fault he was shot in front of the book repository in Dallas, TX. The fact that he was going to be there incited the gunman to shoot him. Shoulda stayed home.

It's Pam Gellar's fault an attempt was made on her life in Garland, TX. The fact that she was going to be there incited the Islamist's to shoot. Shoulda stayed home.

Follow the logic? Me, neither....



CubaMark said:


> Juan Williams, on FOX News, said this about Geller:


I didn't ask Juan Williams any questions. I asked you a number of them. So far, they remain unanswered.



CubaMark said:


> Um, no. It's not. And the fact that you believe this is disturbing. (also, FYI, I'm not "pissed off". I'm perplexed at the mind of a right-winger who is clearly troubled)


My analogy was bang-on. As is MF's.

Yes, I am troubled. Troubled at the thought that some fruit loops & whackos out there think that it's perfectly acceptable to blame the victim for perpetrating the crime. Curiously, most of them come from the left side of the political spectrum. Why do you s'pose that is, CM?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You need to address the issues, not attack the messenger.


No, because NOBODY does that here in ehMac.... 



Macfury said:


> Williams' comment is off base, since Geller did not light the fire to which police responded. More properly, Geller would have said: "We want the world to know that even if you see a pile of kindling on the ground, you're not entitled to bring a match to the party."


You are many things, MF, but not so naïve as to believe Geller is so innocent in her actions.


----------



## Macfury

It sounds like you're saying that if you offend Muslims, you can be certain they will attack... 



CubaMark said:


> You are many things, MF, but not so naïve as to believe Geller is so innocent in her actions.


----------



## FeXL

It's hilarious how he switches back & forth to suit his argument. In one breathe he excoriates Fox news (from the MSM thread):



CubaMark said:


> As for Fox, yeah, I'll take any opportunity to dump on that bunch. They've been shown to consistently lie, misrepresent, obfuscate, and cheer on the wingnuts. They're a blight on the concept of journalism.


And in the next breath he quotes them as some kind of authority (from this thread):



CubaMark said:


> Juan Williams, on FOX News, said this about Geller:


So which is it, CM?


----------



## FeXL

Gellar on "provoking the attack".



> [M]ake no mistake: If it weren’t for the free-speech conference, these jihadis would have struck somewhere else — a place where there was less security, like the Lindt cafe in Australia or the Hyper Cacher Kosher supermarket in Paris.
> 
> *So, why are some people blaming me? They’re saying: “Well, she provoked them! She got what she deserved!” They don’t remember, or care to remember, that as the jihadis were killing the Muhammad cartoonists in Paris, their friend and accomplice was murdering Jews in a nearby kosher supermarket. Were the Jews asking for it? Did they “bait” the jihadis? Were they “provoking” them?*
> 
> Are the Jews responsible for the Nazis? Are the Christians in the Middle East responsible for being persecuted by Muslims?


M'bold.

CM?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> It's hilarious how he switches back & forth to suit his argument. In one breathe he excoriates Fox news (from the MSM thread):
> 
> And in the next breath he quotes them as some kind of authority (from this thread):
> 
> So which is it, CM?


You folks don't believe anything anyone other than Fox says, I thought I'd try to persuade you with folks of your own ilk.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Gellar on "provoking the attack".
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> CM?


You cannot - simply cannot truly believe, that this event, publicized heavily, with the sole purpose of offending those radicalized muslims who are likely to be provoked and respond, was truly a simply 'free speech' event. 'Bait' - no. Deliberate provocation, absolutely.

How many times do you want to do this little dance? Our relative positions are clear.


----------



## Macfury

You continue to rely on prejudice to assume that these Muslims are "likely to be provoked"--as though they are some sort of lesser being that is capable only of acting predictably on instinct.



CubaMark said:


> You cannot - simply cannot truly believe, that this event, publicized heavily, with the sole purpose of offending those radicalized muslims who are likely to be provoked and respond, was truly a simply 'free speech' event. 'Bait' - no. Deliberate provocation, absolutely.
> 
> How many times do you want to do this little dance? Our relative positions are clear.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You continue to rely on prejudice to assume that these Muslims are "likely to be provoked"--as though they are some sort of lesser being that is capable only of acting predictably on instinct.


Nice try, MF. I am not, nor would I ever, imply that all Muslims are waiting in the shadows, waiting for an excuse to strike against poor, innocent, armed-to-the-teeth Americans. Those who are already 'radicalized' and on the edge of committing a violent act? Yeah, those guys. Precisely the people Geller intended to provoke (and she succeeded).


----------



## Macfury

Because they can't control themselves. Got it.



CubaMark said:


> Nice try, MF. I am not, nor would I ever, imply that all Muslims are waiting in the shadows, waiting for an excuse to strike against poor, innocent, armed-to-the-teeth Americans. Those who are already 'radicalized' and on the edge of committing a violent act? Yeah, those guys. Precisely the people Geller intended to provoke (and she succeeded).


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> You folks don't believe anything anyone other than Fox says, I thought I'd try to persuade you with folks of your own ilk.


I very rarely watch MSM of any sort (the Alberta election results the other night being the only exception in years), not limited to, but including Fox. You're so off the mark you aren't even in the same solar system.

Nice attempt to deflect...


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark said:


> How many times do you want to do this little dance? Our relative positions are clear.


Agreed. You think it's entirely acceptable to blame the victim for the violence.

I think that's seriously fukced up...


----------



## Macfury

It's pretty amazing to see this tired "progressive" jab being used over and over. I have never watched FOX News. Don't even know if it's available on my cable service. The only clips I have ever seen were links provided by EhMac's star FOX News viewer, CubaMark.



FeXL said:


> I very rarely watch MSM of any sort (the Alberta election results the other night being the only exception in years), not limited to, but including Fox. You're so off the mark you aren't even in the same solar system.
> 
> Nice attempt to deflect...


----------



## FeXL

Ditto here.



Macfury said:


> It's pretty amazing to see this tired "progressive" jab being used over and over. I have never watched FOX News. Don't even know if it's available on my cable service. The only clips I have ever seen were links provided by EhMac's star FOX News viewer, CubaMark.


----------



## FeXL

Progressive headline for Garland, TX: Art Critics Murdered.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Agreed. You think it's entirely acceptable to blame the victim for the violence.
> 
> I think that's seriously fukced up...


*I haven't blamed any victim* in the Garland shooting. The unarmed security guard who was shot in the foot had nothing to do with the organizing of the event.

I'm blaming the provocateur, Pamela Geller, for creating the context and doing her damnedest to ensure that something like this shooting would happen.


----------



## Macfury

When Bill Maher went head to head with Westboro Baptist Church, he could have expected gunfire in return for provoking them?



CubaMark said:


> I'm blaming the provocateur, Pamela Geller, for creating the context and doing her damnedest to ensure that something like this shooting would happen.


----------



## FeXL

Semantics. Given the opportunity, the Islamists would have shot her & anybody else they could have pumped a bullet into.

Quit deflecting & deal with the issue at hand: the murderous Islamists, not Gellar. 



CubaMark said:


> *I haven't blamed any victim* in the Garland shooting. The unarmed security guard who was shot in the foot had nothing to do with the organizing of the event.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> You continue to rely on prejudice to assume that these Muslims are "likely to be provoked"--as though they are some sort of lesser being that is capable only of acting predictably on instinct.


It's the soft bigotry of low expectations.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> It's pretty amazing to see this tired "progressive" jab being used over and over. I have never watched FOX News. Don't even know if it's available on my cable service. The only clips I have ever seen were links provided by EhMac's star FOX News viewer, CubaMark.


Same here. The only Fox News I've ever seen is clips that left-wingers post. I have no idea what channel it's on (if it even is available here).


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _crap cartoon_


Glad to see you're posting cartoons about something that never happened instead of dealing with the wreckage of your previous posts.


----------



## FeXL

Imagine that...

"Stay Quiet and You'll Be Okay"



> The media "narrative" of the last week is that some Zionist temptress was walking down the street in Garland in a too short skirt and hoisted it to reveal her Mohammed thong - oops, my apologies, her Prophet Mohammed thong (PBUH) - and thereby inflamed two otherwise law-abiding ISIS supporters peacefully minding their own business.


Thank you, Mark.


----------



## FeXL

Until now, I hadn't heard of this event in the exact same venue in Garland, TX back in January. 

Ya know why, CM? Because despite the fact that Texas has a huge percentage of gun owners there weren't a bunch of religion crazed, intolerant bigots running around shooting up the place!

Terrorist Attack at Free Speech Event in Texas: An Eyewitness Account



> This venue was chosen as a defiant response to a Muslim group that had held a conference entitled “Stand With the Prophet Against Terror and Hate” in January in the very same building in Garland, Texas.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Baltimore.

Fundamental Concepts - Dear Black Baltimore Rioter



> I'd like to take just a moment to chat with you if I may. I realize that you probably don't want to talk to me, all your life you've been told that I am the enemy, the cause of everything that you think is wrong with your life. I'm evil. I'm greedy. I'm white. I'm “rich”. I'm racist. I'm Republican. I'm an entire litany of evil, and you know what? For the sake of this conversation, I'll stipulate all of it. I am evil, white, racist and rich. I am Republican and racist. I'm every negative stereotype and every oppressor, real and imagined, that has had a negative effect on you or your ancestor's lives, going back to when they lost a war in Africa and were captured and sold to slave traders. All of that. For the purpose of this discussion, I'm not going to contest any of it. That being said, I have one simple question for you:
> 
> *Do you realize that you're being manipulated and used?*


M'bold.

Nails it.

Excellent read. Language warning.


----------



## SINC

Sums it up nicely . . .


----------



## Dr.G.

WATCH: By Day, This Is A Regular Hotel. But When The Clock Strikes 11pm, The Coolest Thing Happens. [VIDEO]

Very moving. I found myself singing along with them.


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from CNN.com "Walmart reported profits Tuesday morning that missed Wall Street's forecasts -- and the recent pay hike for Walmart employees is one reason why.

Walmart raised the minimum wage for its workers to $9 an hour in April. Its most recent quarter closed in April, so the higher pay was only in effect for one month."

All the more reason that the US minimum wage should be set back to $1 an hour, just like it was in the 1950s, which was a boom time for American workers and companies. When multi-billion dollar companies start to lose profits, it's the canary in the coal mine ........... the sign that the end of American capitalism is near. Luckily, the Walmart workers are not unionized, or they would be demanding $9.25 an hour, which just might bankrupt Walmart.

As Calvin Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business."

Walmart's profits hurt by wage hike for employees - May. 19, 2015


----------



## Macfury

Most Wal-Mart employees are unskilled or semi-skilled at best. They will probably just lay some of them off. Government legislation often has unintended consequences.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Shrillary & Benghazi...

JAW-DROPPING: Documents Reveal Obama, Hillary Knew Al Qaeda Had Planned Benghazi Attack 10 Days in Advance



> Judicial Watch announced today that it obtained more than 100 pages of previously classified “Secret” documents from the Department of Defense (DOD)and the Department of State revealing that DOD almost immediately reported that the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi was committed by the al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood-linked “Brigades of the Captive Omar Abdul Rahman” (BCOAR), and had been planned at least 10 days in advance. Rahman is known as the Blind Sheikh, and is serving life in prison for his involvement in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and other terrorist acts. The new documents also provide the first official confirmation that shows the U.S. government was aware of arms shipments from Benghazi to Syria. The documents also include an August 2012 analysis warning of the rise of ISIS and the predicted failure of the Obama policy of regime change in Syria.


Actually, I still think it was all about that video released on youtube. No, really...


----------



## FeXL

Damn good of him, too...

Obama Offers Welfare To Miners Out Of Work From EPA Regs



> Thousands of coal miners and coal-fired power plant workers have been laid off since President Obama took office, in part due to federal regulations. Now Obama is atoning for putting these Americans out of work by them $35 million in welfare grants.


Don't s'pose any of those "shovel-ready" jobs from a few years & a couple hundred million dollars ago are available...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Baltimore.

Who Caused Baltimore’s Collapse?



> Fact: The last Republican city council member in Baltimore City left office in 1942. That is 73 years of solid Democrat city councils.
> 
> Fact: The last Republican mayor of Baltimore City left office in 1967. That is 48 years of unbroken Democrat control of the mayor’s office.
> 
> Fact: The Maryland Senate is currently 33 Democrats to 14 Republicans.
> 
> Fact: The Maryland House is currently 90 Democrats to 50 Republicans.
> 
> Fact: The last time Republicans held both the Maryland Senate and the Maryland House of Delegates was 1897.
> 
> Fact: The last time Republicans held even one chamber of the Maryland General Assembly—the House—was 1917. That is unbroken Democrat control of the Maryland legislature since 1918, or nearly a century of Democrat control.
> 
> Fact: Seven out of eight members of the Maryland delegation in the U.S. House are Democrats.
> 
> Fact: The last Republican U.S. senator from Maryland was elected in 1980.


Another interesting read, especially the bit about schools, marks & spending.

I know, I know. It's Bush's fault...


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G: If you ran Wal-Mart, how much would you pay the employees?



Dr.G. said:


> This just in from CNN.com "Walmart reported profits Tuesday morning that missed Wall Street's forecasts -- and the recent pay hike for Walmart employees is one reason why.
> 
> Walmart raised the minimum wage for its workers to $9 an hour in April. Its most recent quarter closed in April, so the higher pay was only in effect for one month."
> 
> All the more reason that the US minimum wage should be set back to $1 an hour, just like it was in the 1950s, which was a boom time for American workers and companies. When multi-billion dollar companies start to lose profits, it's the canary in the coal mine ........... the sign that the end of American capitalism is near. Luckily, the Walmart workers are not unionized, or they would be demanding $9.25 an hour, which just might bankrupt Walmart.
> 
> As Calvin Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business."
> 
> Walmart's profits hurt by wage hike for employees - May. 19, 2015


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G: If you ran Wal-Mart, how much would you pay the employees?


Let's see. Walmart employs just over 2 million workers and is the largest private employer in the United States, employing almost five times as many people as IBM, the second largest employer.

On February 23, 2015, Walmart announced that it is bumping its minimum wage to $10 an hour by February 2016.

Why not go with profit sharing, giving every employee, from the greeters to the CEO 200 shares of Walmart. This would come to just over $15,000 a person, and would still keep their profit over $129 billion.

Turn all the employees into capitalists.

Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) - Wikinvest


----------



## Macfury

So a one-time gift of $15,000 plus a year's dividends--consistently about $2 per share annually plus $10 an hour in February 2016.

So 2016 wages would be $20,800 + $15,000 +$400 = $36,200.
Wages in 2017 and thereafter would be $20,800 +$400 = $21,200.

Would everyone get the same number of shares regardless of the time they put in? Could they keep the shares if they quit the following week? 




Dr.G. said:


> Let's see. Walmart employs just over 2 million workers and is the largest private employer in the United States, employing almost five times as many people as IBM, the second largest employer.
> 
> On February 23, 2015, Walmart announced that it is bumping its minimum wage to $10 an hour by February 2016.
> 
> Why not go with profit sharing, giving every employee, from the greeters to the CEO 200 shares of Walmart. This would come to just over $15,000 a person, and would still keep their profit over $129 billion.
> 
> Turn all the employees into capitalists.
> 
> Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) - Wikinvest


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So a one-time gift of $15,000 plus a year's dividends--consistently about $2 per share annually plus $10 an hour in February 2016.
> 
> So 2016 wages would be $20,800 + $15,000 +$400 = $36,200.
> Wages in 2017 and thereafter would be $20,800 +$400 = $21,200.
> 
> Would everyone get the same number of shares regardless of the time they put in? Could they keep the shares if they quit the following week?


No, do this every year. Their profits will soar ................ and fewer people who work at Walmart will have to use the Walmart food banks.

Profit sharing comes at the end of the year, so you would have to be there a full year to get all the shares. Or, for some valid reason, like medical leave or maternity leave, you could get the number of shares you earned for your time there (e.g., 6 months = 100 shares).


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Would everyone get the same number of shares regardless of the time they put in? ?


I see your point. Many floor workers work longer hours than some executives ......... thus, this could be a problem.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I see your point. Many floor workers work longer hours than some executives ......... thus, this could be a problem.


Amazing idea Dr. G. Who is first in line to be paid when Wal-Mart goes bankrupt a few years hence? They will discus the failure of your great experiment for decades in the halls of higher learning!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Amazing idea Dr. G. Who is first in line to be paid when Wal-Mart goes bankrupt a few years hence? They will discus the failure of your great experiment for decades in the halls of higher learning!


TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What was I thinking???????? A world without Walmart is a world not worth living in when you think of American consumerism.    XX)

What I proposed smacks of a social dividend, a key feature in many models of market socialism. This idea is tainted by the creation of social welfare programs and income redistribution schemes. What could I have been thinking????????? Mea culpa, mon ami.

Overlook my lapse in judgment and go back to my idea of a return to a $1 an hour minimum wage for all hourly workers. And, as way to increase Walmart profits, make this pay in the form of Walmart Bucks ................ which can only be exchanged at Walmart. It would be like the old company stores. And, as a bonus for workers of Walmart, they would each get a 1% discount on all items that they have to buy at Walmart. They could then have a sign at the front of each store saying "No need for unions here" ................ right up there next to the sign that says "If you don't come to work on Sunday, don't bother coming to work on Monday."

Long live capitalism, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

It doesn't smack of a social dividend--it smacks of bankruptcy!



Dr.G. said:


> TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What was I thinking???????? A world without Walmart is a world not worth living in when you think of American consumerism.    XX)
> 
> What I proposed smacks of a social dividend, a key feature in many models of market socialism. This idea is tainted by the creation of social welfare programs and income redistribution schemes. What could I have been thinking????????? Mea culpa, mon ami.
> 
> Overlook my lapse in judgment and go back to my idea of a return to a $1 an hour minimum wage for all hourly workers. And, as way to increase Walmart profits, make this pay in the form of Walmart Bucks ................ which can only be exchanged at Walmart. It would be like the old company stores. And, as a bonus for workers of Walmart, they would each get a 1% discount on all items that they have to buy at Walmart. They could then have a sign at the front of each store saying "No need for unions here" ................ right up there next to the sign that says "If you don't come to work on Sunday, don't bother coming to work on Monday."
> 
> Long live capitalism, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What was I thinking???????? A world without Walmart is a world not worth living in when you think of American consumerism.    XX)


Plus, where would B. Hussein Obama hide the hundreds of invading troops hell-bent on overthrowing Texas (just the beginning, you watch, they're a-comin', fer shure, you betcha!)?


----------



## Macfury

Did somebody think Obama was going to storm a WalMart or was that just a stupid idea thought up by the cartoonist?



CubaMark said:


> Plus, where would B. Hussein Obama hide the hundreds of invading troops hell-bent on overthrowing Texas (just the beginning, you watch, they're a-comin', fer shure, you betcha!)?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Did somebody think Obama was going to storm a WalMart or was that just a stupid idea thought up by the cartoonist?


Crowded Republican presidential field ramps up the paranoia - World - CBC News


----------



## Macfury

And when we get to the actual quote, the lefty mantra fizzles:



> "You know I understand the concern that's been raised by a lot of citizens about Jade Helm," Cruz told Bloomberg. "It's a question I'm getting a lot. And I think part of the reason is, we have seen for six years a federal government disrespecting the liberty of the citizens and that produces fear. When you see a federal government that is attacking our free speech rights, our religious liberty rights, our Second Amendment rights. That produces distrust as to government."





Dr.G. said:


> Crowded Republican presidential field ramps up the paranoia - World - CBC News


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It doesn't smack of a social dividend--it smacks of bankruptcy!


Once again, Macfury, you are correct. To shell out $152 million a year to their workers, while only earning profits of $129.740 billion, would bankrupt Walmart in just over 850 years. XX)

"Oh the humanity!!!"

Again, what was I thinking?????????????


----------



## Macfury

WalMart has built its success on cutting costs. If it raises costs, the stores will not experience the same level of sales and it will lose out to competitors. The purpose of WalMart is to make a profit, not to provide jobs for unskilled labour



Dr.G. said:


> Once again, Macfury, you are correct. To shell out $152 million a year to their workers, while only earning profits of $129.740 billion, would bankrupt Walmart in just over 850 years. XX)
> 
> "Oh the humanity!!!"
> 
> Again, what was I thinking?????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And when we get to the actual quote, the lefty mantra fizzles:


"Later, in his speech to the convention, Cruz told South Carolina Republicans about his fights in Texas and Washington for religious liberty. The backlash to Indiana's religious-freedom law, he said, was a "perfect storm of the Democratic Party and big business coming together." Anyone who doubted that gay-marriage supporters could declare culture war on Christians needed only look at the 2014 fight between Houston pastors and a city that was trying to pass a gay rights ordinance.

"Just because you're paranoid," said Cruz, "doesn't mean they're not out to get you." "

Ted Cruz Says He Has Asked the Pentagon for Answers on Jade Helm 15 - Bloomberg Politics

The Pentagon's Response to Ted Cruz Regarding Jade Helm 15 | Jason Stanford

Cruz sympathizes with 'Jade Helm 15' conspiracy theorists | MSNBC


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> WalMart has built its success on cutting costs. If it raises costs, the stores will not experience the same level of sales and it will lose out to competitors. The purpose of WalMart is to make a profit, not to provide jobs for unskilled labour


What are you .......... some sort of commie pinko socialist????? Let the market decide the prices Walmart charges. By having the lowest prices it crushes the competition, and then, by forcing their workers to buy from them increases their profits. More profits = more jobs = more workers = more profits. It's the American way. Take your socialism back to where it belongs ................. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Eventually, most unskilled jobs will disappear. Raising minimum wages drastically will hasten that process.




Dr.G. said:


> What are you .......... some sort of commie pinko socialist????? Let the market decide the prices Walmart charges. By having the lowest prices it crushes the competition, and then, by forcing their workers to buy from them increases their profits. More profits = more jobs = more workers = more profits. It's the American way. Take your socialism back to where it belongs .................
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

One of the links is a humour column. The other two reiterate the quote I used.



Dr.G. said:


> "Later, in his speech to the convention, Cruz told South Carolina Republicans about his fights in Texas and Washington for religious liberty. The backlash to Indiana's religious-freedom law, he said, was a "perfect storm of the Democratic Party and big business coming together." Anyone who doubted that gay-marriage supporters could declare culture war on Christians needed only look at the 2014 fight between Houston pastors and a city that was trying to pass a gay rights ordinance.
> 
> "Just because you're paranoid," said Cruz, "doesn't mean they're not out to get you." "
> 
> Ted Cruz Says He Has Asked the Pentagon for Answers onÂ*Jade Helm 15 - Bloomberg Politics
> 
> The Pentagon's Response to Ted Cruz Regarding Jade Helm 15Â*|Â*Jason Stanford
> 
> Cruz sympathizes with 'Jade Helm 15' conspiracy theorists | MSNBC


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> One of the links is a humour column. The other two reiterate the quote I used.


Well, if you can't laugh at TC's pseudo-paranoia, who can you laugh at these days? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Eventually, most unskilled jobs will disappear. Raising minimum wages drastically will hasten that process.


True. So, let's say that Walmart does not subscribe to your form of socialism and is not able to crush the competition. And, if another Democrat gets into office, they might start to force the end to outsourcing of jobs to countries where cheap labor can produce the goods that are sold at Walmart. Given this doomsday scenario, Walmart would likely only last another 100 years. They will go the way of F.W. Woolworth ................ sad to see them go. :-(


----------



## Macfury

You can't laugh at it, because TC has expressed no paranoia. He simply says he understands how much mistrust in the federal government President Obama has spawned.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, if you can't laugh at TC's pseudo-paranoia, who can you laugh at these days? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You can't laugh at it, because TC has expressed no paranoia. He simply says he understands how much mistrust in the federal government President Obama has spawned.


Well, his "mistrust" lacks the credibility as did the statement of Pres. Eisenhower about the "military/industrial complex".

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Ted Cruz did not say he mistrusted the Pentagon. Only that President Obama has sowed mistrust in the federal government.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, his "mistrust" lacks the credibility as did the statement of Pres. Eisenhower about the "military/industrial complex".
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ted Cruz did not say he mistrusted the Pentagon. Only that President Obama has sowed mistrust in the federal government.


Next you will telling us that Ted Cruz will warn us about an "iron curtain" falling over the State of Texas.  Even Rand Paul feels that TC was misguided in his concerns. Or, have you dropped your Libertarian beliefs and gone over to the "dark side" to support Hillary Clinton ...................... or Bernie Sanders????????     If so, hell has truly frozen over.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2PUIQpAEAQ[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

KFC brings back Colonel Sanders spokesperson in new ad - Business - CBC News

Now, this is American capitalism as it's finest. Next, bring back Sam Walton.


----------



## FeXL

Too close...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Too close...


After 7 years in office, Obama is still "discovering" problems as though somebody else was responsible for them.


----------



## Dr.G.

GOP candidates are flip-flopping to please the base. That could hurt later on. - The Washington Post

Here we go again ................... will this work????

Even Fox news says that any Republican debate will be limited to ten candidates.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary is flip-flopping now. That would hurt most candidates, but Democrats would vote for a turd with a letter "D" beside its name.


----------



## FeXL

Another thing that makes my (limited) hair stand on end,

Cancer charities respond to FTC fraud suit



> The Federal Trade Commission this week came down hard on four cancer charities that investigators say defrauded donors out of more than $187 million. Some of the charities have met the charges head-on, and others have run for the hills.
> 
> The organizations charged with charity fraud (along with some of their leaders) are Cancer Fund of America Inc. (CFA), Cancer Support Services Inc. (CSS), Children’s Cancer Fund of America Inc. (CCFOA) and The Breast Cancer Society Inc. (BCS). From 2008 to 2012, the FTC claims that 85 percent of the money these organizations brought in went to fundraisers and personal extravagances, including a Disney vacation, concert tickets and data site memberships.
> 
> *Only three percent of the funds collected actually went toward the actual charity.*


M'bold.

There is not a punishment fit for people like this...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Another thing that makes my (limited) hair stand on end,
> 
> Cancer charities respond to FTC fraud suit
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> There is not a punishment fit for people like this...


The only big surprise is that the Red Cross is not on that last. I do give to charities but strictly local, never to the big national or international outfits.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The only big surprise is that the Red Cross is not on that last. I do give to charities but strictly local, never to the big national or international outfits.


Stopped giving to the red Cross following their 9/11 drive on the eve of the Twin Towers' destruction. They took that money and put it into general revenue--then publicly defended the decision.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Republicans just supported Obama's Trans Pacific Trade Deal while Democrats deep-sixed it. Oops. 

Guess the meme just failed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Memorial Day in the US. Here is a fitting video clip of a young boy and his understanding of true remembrance. "Lest we forget."

11-Year-Old Boy Held Salute For One Hour. Who Joins Him At 5:02? Beautiful!


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, there's a surprise...

Sticker Shock for Some Obamacare Customers



> So the proposed 2016 Obamacare rates have been filed in many states, and in many states, the numbers are eye-popping. Market leaders are requesting double-digit increases in a lot of places. Some of the biggest are really double-digit: 51 percent in New Mexico, 36 percent in Tennessee, 30 percent in Maryland, 25 percent in Oregon.


Further:



> *The good news is that even if we do see big rate hikes for the next few years, that doesn't mean we need expect them indefinitely.* Eventually, insurers will figure out the price of providing these products, and then -- barring a self-selecting "death spiral" -- cost increases will move with the rate of health care cost inflation, rather than wildly gyrating as insurers realize they're losing money. The bad news, of course, is that we don't know how many big increases we might need to get to that price.


M'bold.

Notice absolutely nothing is said about about premiums ever going down. In addition, the author seems pretty cavalier, "Ah, what the hell. We see 50% increases year over year for the balance of the decade, no biggie. That'll all level out. We'll be quadruple what we originally quoted but, no worries."

Just shaking my head...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yeah, there's a surprise...
> 
> Sticker Shock for Some Obamacare Customers


It isn't even insurance. Insurance is what you buy in case you become ill. This is essentially paying the "insurer" up front and having them pay for all your health care.

Obama knew this would happen anyway. Not important to him. Just moving health care further out of the private sector was the prize.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It isn't even insurance. Insurance is what you buy in case you become ill. This is essentially paying the "insurer" up front and having them pay for all your health care.
> 
> Obama knew this would happen anyway. Not important to him. Just moving health care further out of the private sector was the prize.


Not quite. Obama Care was written by the Insurance Companies and for the Insurance Companies. Are they losing money? On the books yes, thanks I suspect to very creative book keeping. Amazing how a profitable and taxable year can be turned into losses via various bookkeeping tricks.

An example on the medical provider end. An individual spends three days in the hospital receiving minimal care for a broken bone. The hospital bills the insurance provider $50,000. They bicker over it for two or three months and the provider pays $5,000 which is the amount written into their contract. Those who have dealt with Medicare in the US can actually follow this chain of events on their providers website and also have a stack of 'This is not a bill' notifications as further evidence.

However had the individual been uninsured he too would have been billed $50,000. If he did his research and discovered insurers would pay only $5000, he might get the hospital to agree to accept $5000. Sadly this 10:1 billing ratio seems to be the norm except where it is higher.

A more likely scenario is that the hospital would try to collect for 3-6months then sell the debt to a private collector for $5000 and incur a book loss of $45,000. Easy to show a loss while making a profit when you have bean counters like that.

It would be the height of naivety to believe Insurance Companies do not have similar tricks up their sleeves.


----------



## Macfury

I agree. I am not saying the insurance companies are hurting. Only that what they are selling is not insurance.



eMacMan said:


> Not quite. Obama Care was written by the Insurance Companies and for the Insurance Companies. Are they losing money? On the books yes, thanks I suspect to very creative book keeping. Amazing how a profitable and taxable year can be turned into losses via various bookkeeping tricks.
> 
> An example on the medical provider end. An individual spends three days in the hospital receiving minimal care for a broken bone. The hospital bills the insurance provider $50,000. They bicker over it for two or three months and the provider pays $5,000 which is the amount written into their contract. Those who have dealt with Medicare in the US can actually follow this chain of events on their providers website and also have a stack of 'This is not a bill' notifications as further evidence.
> 
> However had the individual been uninsured he too would have been billed $50,000. If he did his research and discovered insurers would pay only $5000, he might get the hospital to agree to accept $5000. Sadly this 10:1 billing ratio seems to be the norm except where it is higher.
> 
> A more likely scenario is that the hospital would try to collect for 3-6months then sell the debt to a private collector for $5000 and incur a book loss of $45,000. Easy to show a loss while making a profit when you have bean counters like that.
> 
> It would be the height of naivety to believe Insurance Companies do not have similar tricks up their sleeves.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I agree. I am not saying the insurance companies are hurting. Only that what they are selling is not insurance.


Smells more like a protection racket, with Obama Care providing a convenient club!


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Overhead costs exploding under ObamaCare, study finds



> Five years after the passage of ObamaCare, there is *one expense* that’s still causing sticker shock across the healthcare industry: overhead costs.
> 
> The administrative costs for healthcare plans are expected to explode by more than a quarter of a trillion dollars over the next decade, according to a new study published by the Health Affairs blog.
> 
> The $270 billion in new costs, for both private insurance companies and government programs, will be “over and above what would have been expected had the law not been enacted,” one of the authors, David Himmelstein, wrote Wednesday.


M'bold.

Only one? <snort>



> The extra administrative costs amount to the equivalent of $1,375 per newly insured person per year, the authors write.


Well, hardly anything at all.



> The federal exchange, as well as the 13 state-run exchanges, *have all been boosted by grant money*, though those funds will run out by 2016. The exchange will then *need to rely on fees to plan premiums.*


Unbelievable. Do these guys read what they write? I guess "grant money" is simply manna from heaven...


----------



## Macfury

This was never designed to work. It was designed to create chaos that would lead to citizens begging for a full government takeover of health care.



FeXL said:


> Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.
> 
> Overhead costs exploding under ObamaCare, study finds
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Only one? <snort>
> 
> 
> 
> Well, hardly anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Unbelievable. Do these guys read what they write? I guess "grant money" is simply manna from heaven...


----------



## FeXL

It appears they are right on track, in that case.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Baltimore.

Vilified Police Step Back; Baltimore Reverts to Jungle, Followed by the Rest of the Country



> The spectacle staged in Baltimore has had a predictable effect on the already stratospheric crime rate in that diverse community:
> 
> _The city of Baltimore … had a record Memorial Day weekend.
> 
> A total of 29 people were shot, including nine who died, as the city scrambles to deal with its deadliest month since 1999. …
> 
> According to a report by FOX News homicides are up 100% this May. Arrests are down by 50%.​_
> That’s what you wanted, right Obamunists? *The police are inflicting less racist oppression on criminals of color.*


M'bold.

Further:



> Yet even now the cops can’t catch a break. CNN interviewed Baltimore residents who accuse police of not doing their job. Says Reverend Jamal Bryant of the Empowerment Temple Church,
> 
> _“It’s almost akin to having a substitute teach in the middle of the semester who turns a blind eye, doesn’t know the students, and is not, in fact, giving a grade. And so it’s a very dangerous time in our city when crime is going up, but arrests are going down.”​_


What the hell do they expect...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What the hell do they expect...


I guess they should arrest some white people for the optics of it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I guess they should arrest some white people for the optics of it.


Besides the three cops who got charged, are there any whites who haven't left the city?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Besides the three cops who got charged, are there any whites who haven't left the city?


They can advertise for out-of-town candidates?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They can advertise for out-of-town candidates?


Now that made me giggle...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the graft of the Clinton Foundation. (language warning)

A Tsunami of Graft: Bill Clinton Heroically Raised Money for the Tsunami Vicitms, By First Securing a $500,000 Payment For his "Charity"



> There is a special place in hell for this clan of grifters.


And yet, people will still vote for Bill's wife...


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs it when sheer ignorance of history is presented in such stark outline...

So, for those of you who missed it first time, Bill's wife is going to publicly announce, for the second time, that she's running for president. 

Hillary Clinton: Even Though I Already Said I'm Running for President, Today I Am Announcing That In Two Weeks I Will Announce I Am Running For President

She has chosen what she sees as an auspicious location to do this, Roosevelt Island, in New York City. However...



> Hillary wants to tap into the symbolism represented by Roosevelt Island...?
> 
> She should have done more homework. The island was formerly named *Welfare* Island, due to its use as a place to store lunatics and the incurably sick, as well as criminals.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ace sums:



> So, perfect, I think.


Yep...


----------



## Macfury

Today, Obama told the world that he has "restored the United States as the most respected country on earth.”

No comment necessary. Unbelievable.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the non-effectiveness of the TSA.

TSA's Failure Rate in Detecting Bombs and Weapons? _Ninety Five Percent;_ Chief Merely Gets Reassigned, Because Catastrophic, Stinking Failure Is Plenty Good Enough for Government Work



> Department of Homeland Security said Monday that the acting administrator for the Transportation Security Administration would be reassigned, following a report that airport screeners failed to detect explosives and weapons in nearly every test that an undercover team conducted at dozens of airports.
> 
> According to a report based on an internal investigation, "red teams" with the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General *were able to get banned items through the screening process in 67 out of 70 tests it conducted across the nation.*


M'bold.

Salient:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Today, Obama told the world that he has "restored the United States as the most respected country on earth.”
> 
> No comment necessary. Unbelievable.


Sorry, had to comment.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Sorry, had to comment.


He's still miffed that nobody is celebrating the miracle of his economic recovery--the US economy only contracted 0.7% last quarter.


----------



## eMacMan

Besides American, I count Russian, Chinese, Italian, Scottish and German expats amongst my acquaintances. Only the Americans have found their former nations citizenship so toxic that they have had to relinquish or renounce it.


----------



## FeXL

Heads exploding everywhere.

George W. Bush outpolls Barack Obama



> Americans now have a more favorable view of former President George W. Bush than they do of President Barack Obama.
> 
> It is the first time in more than a decade that Americans have expressed a favorable view of Bush, at least according to a new CNN/ORC poll released Wednesday.
> 
> Bush is seen in a favorable light by 52 percent of those surveyed, compared with 43 percent who still view the 43rd president unfavorably. Americans are split on Obama, with 49 percent responding favorably and unfavorably.


The thing about these numbers that frightens me the most is there are still 49% of the American population who think Obama is doing OK...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Heads exploding everywhere.
> 
> George W. Bush outpolls Barack Obama
> 
> 
> 
> Americans now have a more favorable view of former President George W. Bush than they do of President Barack Obama.
> 
> It is the first time in more than a decade that Americans have expressed a favorable view of Bush, at least according to a new CNN/ORC poll released Wednesday.
> 
> Bush is seen in a favorable light by 52 percent of those surveyed, compared with 43 percent who still view the 43rd president unfavorably. Americans are split on Obama, with 49 percent responding favorably and unfavorably.
> 
> 
> 
> The thing about these numbers that frightens me the most is there are still 49% of the American population who think Obama is doing OK...
Click to expand...

The thing that frightens me is that more than 10% view either of those traitorous idiots favourably. Let's be brutal, Bush set the bar several thousand feet below sea level and Obama has managed to lower it another inch or three. To consider that even somewhat acceptable is totally unacceptable.


----------



## FeXL

So, the worst they can find about this Rep Presidential candidate is his & his wife's traffic tickets? And the means to obtain that info may have been lied about? By the Grey Lady, no less?

Bad news: GOP presidential candidate, spouse are traffic scofflaws, or something; Update: Fed by Dem oppo firm? Update: NYT denies; Update: Paper trail clashes with explanation



> *The whole story is silly and insubstantial.* If there was some indication that the Rubios used their political power to have traffic tickets vanish, that would be a story. Instead, the Rubios had to pay a lawyer to deal with the court issues, perhaps a bit of a luxury but noteworthy only for their legitimate use of legal options rather than political power to deal with the tickets.


M'bold.

Yep.

Further:



> Marco Rubio's wife has traffic tickets. I wonder if Hillary Clinton's spouse has ever done anything bad. pic.twitter.com/AagpDZkwQa
> 
> — Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) June 5, 2015


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## CubaMark

*Context:*

*Kansas school funding cuts mean summer comes uncomfortably early*

At least eight Kansas school districts are starting summer break early in response to the state’s midyear education funding cut.

The move has put increased pressure on Governor Sam Brownback, whose “experiment” with reducing income tax to incite economic growth is partially responsible for the state’s projected $800m budget shortfall going into the next fiscal year, which begins on 1 July.

In an effort to ameliorate that gap, Brownback in March cut $51m from the budget for the current school year – pushing schools to trim the school year and eliminate and cut education programs.​
(TheGuardian)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark, are you just vomiting Trudeau's car-tunes aimed at low-information voters onto the page, or do you really understand what is happening in Kansas? Be honest here--if you don't understand what is happening in Kansas, why would you post it?


----------



## Macfury

The silence indicates another roadside dump took place.


----------



## FeXL

<just shaking my head...>

You Know Obama Is Hard Up for Accomplishments When…



> …your former White House Communications Director and Senior Advisor for Strategy and Communications tries to give you credit for winning a horse race. Yesterday, Dan Pfeiffer tweeted that American Pharoah’s Triple Crown is an “accomplishment” of President Obama’s


How pathetic a career do you have to have. 49% of the American people must be proud...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Baltimore.

Not much here I can find to argue with.

The Incredible Entitlement of the Welfare Lobby 



> Progressive America has a fever and the only solution is more welfare. Celebrities are trying to buy only $29 worth of fair trade arugula at Whole Foods and then taking snapshots of it in a mistaken effort to show how little food stamps buy. Obama is urging more social welfare spending as the answer to the race riots he stirred up across the country by embracing the Ferguson “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” hoax.


More:



> Poor urban areas have not been “abandoned” by a cold selfish nation that spends all its time watching FOX News, as Obama claims, they have been subsidized up to their ears. *Every poverty statistic is presented as if it were evidence of our guilt, when it’s actually evidence of our incredible generosity.*
> 
> The angriest portion of the population lives in subsidized homes, goes to subsidized schools, shops with food stamps and even works at subsidized government jobs servicing the needs of the aforementioned. MSNBC talking heads claimed that the rioters and looters targeted the grocery and check cashing places that were oppressing the community. The only community they were oppressing was that of taxpayers.


M'bold.

Further:



> *Jobs aren’t created by government programs. They’re created by people.*


M'bold.

Yes! Yes! A thousand times, YES!!!


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Grey Lady & Rubio's extravagance.

This time it's luxury speedboats & mansions.

Revealed: The Rubio “luxury speedboat”; Update: About the “luxury” house …



> Earlier today, the New York Times clucked its tongue over Marco Rubio’s “penchant for luxury,” embodied primarily in the purchase of an $80,000 “speedboat.” One man’s luxury is another man’s … *fishing boat.*


M'bold.

<snort>


----------



## FeXL

I hope he stands by his guns.

Federal Judge Gives IRS Until Friday To Explain Itself On Lerner Emails\



> A federal judge says the Internal Revenue Service has until Friday to provide answers on the status of Lois Lerner’s emails that were previously declared lost, a watchdog group announced Monday.


Further:



> “The Obama IRS obstructed and lied to a federal judge and Judicial Watch in an effort to hide the truth about Lois Lerner’s emails,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said. “The IRS is out of control and Judicial Watch is happy that Judge Sullivan has taken this key step to remind the agency that it is accountable to the rule of law and the American people.”


----------



## FeXL

More on Rubio's lavish lifestyle.

Thriftboating



> Wowee. The Congressional hearing on the Benghazi debacle didn't make the front page, but it's a page 1 story that some "experts" -- more than one, mind you -- who spoke to NYT reporters deem the Rubios' lease of a $50,000 car a few years ago "imprudent."


Further:



> Oh well. If Rubio ever needs to hide his boat from NYT "reporters" until this all blows over, there's more than enough room for it *in Hillary's swimming pool.*


M'bold.

<snort>


----------



## eMacMan

Boy does this sum it up nicely.









In Canada that would be Political Parties!


----------



## FeXL

Not content to hold "paper" gold...

Texas Wants Its Gold Back From The Fed



> Texas appears to be following the lead of Germany, Austria, and Holland, after the state government decided to repatriate the gold that it has stored at the New York Federal Reserve. On Friday, June 12th, Governor Greg Abbott signed into law, a bill that approves the construction of a new gold depository in Texas. Upon completion of the facility, Texas will pull $1 billion in gold bullion from the Fed’s vault.


Good on 'em.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump joins race to be Republican presidential nominee - World - CBC News

Who shall be the "lucky" candidate #13???????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Walmart's use of tax havens revealed in new report - Business - CBC News

"The business of America is business." Pres. Calvin Coolidge


----------



## gwillikers

dr.g. said:


> donald trump joins race to be republican presidential nominee - world - cbc news
> 
> who shall be the "lucky" candidate #13???????????


----------



## SINC

gwillikers said:


> View attachment 57681


Now THAT was funny! You made my day, Howie. :clap:


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump joins race to be Republican presidential nominee - World - CBC News
> 
> Who shall be the "lucky" candidate #13???????????


Marc, I gotta ask, why do so many "losers" ( winning the nomination ) run for the nomination in the U.S.? It makes no sense to me, does the GOP believe in the Star System?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Marc, I gotta ask, why do so many "losers" ( winning the nomination ) run for the nomination in the U.S.? It makes no sense to me, does the GOP believe in the Star System?


Two reasons on the Republican side. The Republican establishment want Jeb Bush, so they are flooding the market with candidates to weaken the votes of the contenders. Also, simply running for the nomination improves your resume (former presidential candidate) for speaker gigs, book deals, television commentator jobs.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I can see that but the volume dilutes the brand and places the " winner" at a disadvantage as seldom do parties consolidate after a leadership convention. I think Obama would prove this out as many Dems were, and still are I think, against him.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I can see that but the volume dilutes the brand and places the " winner" at a disadvantage as seldom do parties consolidate after a leadership convention. I think Obama would prove this out as many Dems were, and still are I think, against him.


The Republican party is divided between fiscal conservatism and Democrat-style spending. The establishment Republicans have no problem with the level of spending, they just want to be in control of it. Many of these Republicans don't even care if they elect a president, provided they are heading up the various spending committees. These Republicans would rather not have a Republican president, if it meant that the president would cut back on spending. They want Jeb Bush to keep the money flowing or (barely acceptable) Rubio--Walker, Paul and Cruz scare the devil out of their wallets!


----------



## FeXL

Gee, there's a surprise...

Americans Have Lost Confidence ... in Everything



> Americans have little confidence in most of their major institutions including Congress, the presidency, the Supreme Court, banks and organized religion, according to the latest Gallup poll.


I know, I know...b-b-b-b-but, Bush!

The numbers are appalling. Even so, I find it amazing that so many people find confidence in the politicians.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, another surprise...

D.C. Officials Stole $110K From Children's Program to Fund Obama Inaugural Ball



> Neil S. Rodgers, a former D.C. government official, was sentenced Tuesday for his role in the misappropriation of $110,000 earmarked for D.C.'s Children at Risk and Drug Prevention Fund to cover a deficit for the 51st State Inaugural Ball for President Obama's inauguration in 2009. Rodgers, found guilty of fraud in March, was sentenced to *36 days (served on weekends)* plus two years of probation. Rodgers must also repay the entire $110,000 as restitution for his crime.


M'bold.

Thirty-six days, served on weekends.

Brutal...


----------



## FeXL

The fallout from the Charlie Foxtrot continues.

Feds Can’t Verify $2.8 Billion in Obamacare Subsidies



> The federal government cannot verify nearly $3 billion in subsidies distributed through Obamacare, putting significant taxpayer funding “at risk,” according to a new audit report.
> 
> The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Office of Inspector General (OIG) released an audit Tuesday finding that the agency did not have an internal system to ensure that subsidies went to the right enrollees, or in the correct amounts.
> 
> “[The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services] *CMS’s internal controls did not effectively ensure the accuracy of nearly $2.8 billion in aggregate financial assistance payments made to insurance companies under the Affordable Care Act during the first four months that these payments were made*,” the OIG said.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Baltimore.

Baltimore: the Epilogue



> Government at every level has approached the task of "community healing" with a seemingly uniform message: *"The riots against police racism were righteous. There will be no consequences for your anarchy."* On May 6, 2015 Governor Hogan promptly announced creation of a fund to pay for the rebuilding of all that the rioters destroyed. Not to be outdone, on May 7, 2015 Mayor Rawlings-Blake hastily called a press conference to announce the creation of her own fund, One Baltimore; a public-private partnership with vague goals that mimic precisely what government has been claiming to do for years. Staged in front of the burned-out CVS store, the mayor uttered not a word of rebuke or indignation over the mindless, lawless destruction of private businesses that served the locals. Her message, instead, conveyed the notion that someone else would pay to rebuild the community just taken down, so, "no worries."


M'bold.

Just shaking my head...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Colin Powell is hardly a Republican! He's a "progressive" whose coin has been cheapened long ago. Also, your meme is two-and-a-half years old. Did it just get sent to you over the aggregator?

Here's a question for you--which former Republican governor supposedly used that term? I trust you to honestly tell me without googling first. If you post a meme, I expect you to understand it.

Do you know New York Democrat Governor Andew Cuomo?



> Andrew Cuomo used some words about Barack Obama that have a very troublesome racial history. "It's not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can't buy your way into it," Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. "You can't *shuck and jive* at a press conference," he added. "All those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Colin Powell is hardly a Republican! He's a "progressive" whose coin has been cheapened long ago.


If you carry the party membership card, you're a Republican, no?



Macfury said:


> Also, your meme is two-and-a-half years old.


There's a statute of limitations on political opinion? Gosh, thanks for letting me know!



Macfury said:


> Did it just get sent to you over the aggregator?


You have an obsession with that term. What is this "aggregator" of which you speak? I have several sources for news and opinion that I consult daily. You appear to have developed some kind of fault in your OS.



Macfury said:


> Here's a question for you--which former Republican governor supposedly used that term? I trust you to honestly tell me without googling first. If you post a meme, I expect you to understand it.


Oh please. For better or worse, the wingnut rants of Sarah Palin will forever be stuck in my brain. Why can't we choose which memories to keep and which to forget? It would be wonderful to excise that Alaskan tumour from my brain...

*EDIT:* Just saw your edited post. Cuomo said it too? Hilarious... Now that I think of it, was Palin still governor when she said it....? For that, I must resort to Google....Nope, she posted this to her FB in 2012, and left office in 2009. So technically, she was an ex-Governor when she used the phrase. You got me!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> If you carry the party membership card, you're a Republican, no?


You only need a card to claim you are. However, Powell has endorsed and voted for Obama twice. Whether he carries a membership card seems less important in that light.



CubaMark said:


> There's a statute of limitations on political opinion? Gosh, thanks for letting me know!


Just pointing out your habit of dredging up ancient material.



CubaMark said:


> You have an obsession with that term. What is this "aggregator" of which you speak? I have several sources for news and opinion that I consult daily. You appear to have developed some kind of fault in your OS.


You've mentioned that your news source "pushes" old material to the top of the list. An aggregator is the descriptive word for a service that provides news links to the recipient.



CubaMark said:


> Oh please. For better or worse, the wingnut rants of Sarah Palin will forever be stuck in my brain. Why can't we choose which memories to keep and which to forget? It would be wonderful to excise that Alaskan tumour from my brain...


Pass!



CubaMark said:


> Just saw your edited post. Cuomo said it too? Hilarious... Now that I think of it, was Palin still governor when she said it....? For that, I must resort to Google....Nope, she posted this to her FB in 2012, and left office in 2009. So technically, she was an ex-Governor when she used the phrase. You got me!


To be fair, Cuomo was a pre-governor when he said it. The point I'm making is that the meme you posted is carefully selected to make Republicans look racist. It isn't remotely honest when Democrats are doing the same.


----------



## Dr.G.

I did not see this one coming, certainly not with a 6-3 margin. Luckily, there were three justices with the courage to stand up for America. Opposing the decision were Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. President Obama heralded the ruling.

“After nearly a century of talk, decades of trying, a year of bipartisan debate, we finally declared that in America, health care is not a privilege for a few but a right for all.” 

Affordable Care Act survives Supreme Court challenge - The Washington Post

"The 6-to-3 ruling means that it is all but certain that the Affordable Care Act will survive after Mr. Obama leaves office in 2017, and has a greater chance of becoming an enduring part of America’s social safety net."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/obamacare-supreme-court.html

What's next??????????

" “The Supreme Court has decided, apparently, that every American should have access to quality health care,” said Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas). “What if it decided to say the same thing about education? I don’t mean to be an alarmist but, after today, I believe that anything is possible.”

Senator Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) also blasted the Court, telling reporters that “a government that protects health care is one small, dangerous step away from protecting the environment.”

“The nightmare that I have long feared is now suddenly upon us,” Paul said. “Mark my words, we are on a slippery slope toward clean air and water.” "

Republicans Fear Victory for Health Care Could Pave Way for Education, Environment - The New Yorker


----------



## Macfury

That satire is simply not funny enough. 

Besides the _Affordable Care Act_, since it has been responsible for record increases in deductibles and premiums, is likely to be voted out of existence at some point.


----------



## FeXL

I think it's fabulous. One more endearing legacy on taxpayers via Obama...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That satire is simply not funny enough.
> 
> Besides the _Affordable Care Act_, since it has been responsible for record increases in deductibles and premiums, is likely to be voted out of existence at some point.


Agreed. Let them start to die on the streets of US cities and that will wake up Americans that it is "survival of the fittest" in America.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I think it's fabulous. One more endearing legacy on taxpayers via Obama...


Right on, FeXL .................. just like FDR's Social Security Act which is still in effect today ................ helping millions while bleeding even more millions. And don't get me started on the various aspects of LBJ's Great Society that are still in existence today.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Agreed. Let them start to die on the streets of US cities and that will wake up Americans that it is "survival of the fittest" in America.


Dr.G., with all respect, American citizens are already doing that, under so-called Democratic "leadership". Curiously, health care has nothing to do with it...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G., with all respect, American citizens are already doing that, under so-called Democratic "leadership". Curiously, health care has nothing to do with it...


As I said, Right on, Brother FeXL. Time for a Republican president, a Republican controlled House of Reps and a Republican controlled Senate. That will set America back on the course of prosperity ................... at least for some. As for the others ..................... well, "let them eat cake".

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, FeXL .................. just like FDR's Social Security Act which is still in effect today ................ helping millions while bleeding even more millions. And don't get me started on the various aspects of LBJ's Great Society that are still in existence today.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Yes, that Social Security which has indentured blacks into veritable slavery, once again. And, in the fear that Republicans will lessen the handouts, blacks re-elect Democrats again. Rinse, repeat...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Yes, that Social Security which has indentured blacks into veritable slavery, once again. And, in the fear that Republicans will lessen the handouts, blacks re-elect Democrats again. Rinse, repeat...


Once again, right on brother FeXL. I you can't make it in today's American society, move over and let those who can move forward have the opportunities. The best policy is for all people to vote for those who can do the most for the fewest number of people ............. and then wait for their share to "trickle down" to help all.

Where is Ronald Reagan when we need him?????????????????????


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> That will set America back on the course of prosperity ...................


We both know that there have been plenty of opportunities for America to get back on track since the recession. It hasn't been so much lack of a Republican, but lack of leadership, period. And, what has reared it's ugly head has been more racially divisive than anything. It wouldn't have been more so if Al Sharpton would have been in the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> We both know that there have been plenty of opportunities for America to get back on track since the recession. It hasn't been so much lack of a Republican, but lack of leadership, period. And, what has reared it's ugly head has been more racially divisive than anything. It wouldn't have been more so if Al Sharpton would have been in the White House.


Well, rest assured that a while male is destined to end up in the White House comes Jan. 2017, and start to head America back on the right path of prosperity, with "liberty and justice for some" ................... and the rest had just better toe the line ............ or else.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL, Dr. G will jocularly shrug off all of the hardship that the Obama Administration has brought to both blacks and whites. To some, economic prosperity is not as important as welfare programs.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. can be as jocular as he wants. I bear no ill will towards him for that.

However, even the staunchest of socialists must acknowledge that, at some point, economic prosperity is what pays for all those social programs. Sooner or later they will run out of Other People's Money. Then what?

Obama seems to think that the US is too big to fail. I think it's not far over the horizon...


----------



## Macfury

The New Deal used social welfare and such novel tools as price fixing to spread pain to as many people as could be imagined over as long a period as conceivable--yet FDR is still a hero to some.



FeXL said:


> Dr.G. can be as jocular as he wants. I bear no ill will towards him for that.
> 
> However, even the staunchest of socialists must acknowledge that, at some point, economic prosperity is what pays for all those social programs. Sooner or later they will run out of Other People's Money. Then what?
> 
> Obama seems to think that the US is too big to fail. I think it's not far over the horizon...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FeXL, Dr. G will jocularly shrug off all of the hardship that the Obama Administration has brought to both blacks and whites. To some, economic prosperity is not as important as welfare programs.


"Hardship"????? How about financial ruin for most in America!!!!!!! Since he took office, only the wealthiest of Americans have prospered, while the others have floundered or sunk. As I said previously, where is Ronald Reagan when we really need him????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G. can be as jocular as he wants. I bear no ill will towards him for that.
> 
> However, even the staunchest of socialists must acknowledge that, at some point, economic prosperity is what pays for all those social programs. Sooner or later they will run out of Other People's Money. Then what?
> 
> Obama seems to think that the US is too big to fail. I think it's not far over the horizon...


OPM ............... mostly from China. Who owns America these days????? The days of the free lunch are over, and Americans need to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps", on their own, even those who are homeless and without boots.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The New Deal used social welfare and such novel tools as price fixing to spread pain to as many people as could be imagined over as long a period as conceivable--yet FDR is still a hero to some.


FDR a "hero"??? To some, he was a god. However, looking back in perspective, the New Deal set the US down a path of social conscience rather than economic reality. It put Americans to work building things that could easily have been built by companies who would then have had the bottom line and profit as their motive. Food, shelter and clothing was given to the people rather than having them buy these items with money they earned by working for real companies .......... and not just handouts from Corporate America. The New Deal killed off true capitalism, and built up a foundation of Social Welfare and Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR), the voluntary activities uodertaken by a company to operate in an economic, social and environmentally sustainable manner. Social Darwinism was set back generations, and it is only now making a real comeback. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

It put fewer Americans to work than could have been achieved with actual jobs. It paid some Americans to do make-work tasks, while taking the money from other Americans who needed it.

FDR extended the hardship of the Depression as far as it could possibly extend while convincing Americans that he was shortening it. Bless FDR's soul, he really thought he was doing good, but he was an economic wrecking ball. His ultimate achievement was killing America's social conscience and replacing it with government welfare.



Dr.G. said:


> FDR a "hero"??? To some, he was a god. However, looking back in perspective, the New Deal set the US down a path of social conscience rather than economic reality. It put Americans to work building things that could easily have been built by companies who would then have had the bottom line and profit as their motive. Food, shelter and clothing was given to the people rather than having them buy these items with money they earned by working for real companies .......... and not just handouts from Corporate America. The New Deal killed off true capitalism, and built up a foundation of Social Welfare and Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR), the voluntary activities uodertaken by a company to operate in an economic, social and environmentally sustainable manner. Social Darwinism was set back generations, and it is only now making a real comeback. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I had no idea that you recognized Obama as the architect of an economic disaster Dr. G.



Dr.G. said:


> "Hardship"????? How about financial ruin for most in America!!!!!!! Since he took office, only the wealthiest of Americans have prospered, while the others have floundered or sunk. As I said previously, where is Ronald Reagan when we really need him????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It put fewer Americans to work than could have been achieved with actual jobs. It paid some Americans to do make-work tasks, while taking the money from other Americans who needed it.
> 
> FDR extended the hardship of the Depression as far as it could possibly extend while convincing Americans that he was shortening it. Bless FDR's soul, he really thought he was doing good, but he was an economic wrecking ball. His ultimate achievement was killing America's social conscience and replacing it with government welfare.


Very true, Macfury. Those "make work projects", like the TVA, the Bonneville Dam, the Lincoln Tunnel, the Triborough Bridge and the LaGuardia Airport, all could have been built by companies that lost out on any bids since the federal government picked up the tab. On top of this, companies were forced to give up profits to union workers stemming from the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, which finally guaranteed workers the rights to collective bargaining through unions of their own choice ............. and put us on the path to ruin that can been seen today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I had no idea that you recognized Obama as the architect of an economic disaster Dr. G.


He is the architect of an economic doom and disaster ....... bringing about programs that will last for years to come. Forget bringing back Ronald Reagan .......... bring back Ike.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, they were no less make-work projects because you like them Dr. G.

I recall the viciousness with which FDR flooded out thousands of people from the Tennessee Valley to make their lives better.



Dr.G. said:


> Very true, Macfury. Those "make work projects", like the TVA, the Bonneville Dam, the Lincoln Tunnel, the Triborough Bridge and the LaGuardia Airport, all could have been built by companies that lost out on any bids since the federal government picked up the tab. On top of this, companies were forced to give up profits to union workers stemming from the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, which finally guaranteed workers the rights to collective bargaining through unions of their own choice ............. and put us on the path to ruin that can been seen today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Washington (CNN)—"In a landmark opinion, the Supreme Court ruled Friday that states cannot ban same-sex marriage, establishing a new civil right and handing gay rights advocates a victory that until very recently would have seemed unthinkable." "In a dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia blasted the Court's "threat to American democracy."

"The substance of today's decree is not of immense personal importance to me," he wrote. "But what really astounds is the hubris reflected in today's judicial Putsch." "

Supreme Court rules states must allow same-sex marriage - CNNPolitics.com

Well, there goes the way things were during Ike's day. We can't blame Pres. Obama for this one, however. The Supreme Court chose to crumble under the pressure of public opinion. By laying the groundwork for fairness and equality under the law, they have trampled upon the rights of some Americans to ignore reality. And think of the children!!!!!!!!!! Many children will now find themselves in loving and nurturing same-sex family units, spelling an end to the Dr. Benjamin Spock generation of men and women who managed a 50% marriage and 50% divorce rate since the days of Pres. Eisenhower. "Those were the days .............."


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> He is the architect of an economic doom and disaster ....... bringing about programs that will last for years to come. Forget bringing back Ronald Reagan .......... bring back Ike.


These have been interesting reads! Hindsight is always 20/20. As I have said many times we, on the fringe, can applaud or condem but we have time to compare policies, and most importantly, we don't make the decisions.

Reagan and FDR both did what they felt needed to be done,, but had lasting effects, some good, some bad.

I would remind you that it was greed that brought the economic down falls, whether on Wall Street or in the Industrial-Agro sectors. And, both Reagan, FDR tried to clean up messes .... Obama is in a similar position.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, they were no less make-work projects because you like them Dr. G.
> 
> I recall the viciousness with which FDR flooded out thousands of people from the Tennessee Valley to make their lives better.


True!!! And for what???? Electricity. When FDR took office, the private sector controlled 94 percent of electricity generation, essentially unregulated, and they could sell it to whomever they wanted to and for a price that they calculated would make them the most profits. And the kerosene industry collapsed when the folks in the TVA could have electricity for lighting, rather than kerosene lamps.


----------



## Macfury

It was the federal government, fueled by both parties, that created the mess by tilting the playing field with peculiar rules that caused misallocation of resources. 

Of the three of them, Obama is the only one that has taken a bad situation and made it considerably worse. He's flattened the cyclical recovery that the economy would have made on its own and dispirited the population in a way that makes Jimmy Carter look inspirational. At least in FDR's day, the federal government was not considered a joke.



Rps said:


> These have been interesting reads! Hindsight is always 20/20. As I have said many times we, on the fringe, can applaud or condem but we have time to compare policies, and most importantly, we don't make the decisions.
> 
> Reagan and FDR both did what they felt needed to be done,, but had lasting effects, some good, some bad.
> 
> I would remind you that it was greed that brought the economic down falls, whether on Wall Street or in the Industrial-Agro sectors. And, both Reagan, FDR tried to clean up messes .... Obama is in a similar position.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, am I surprised by this decision, I thought for sure they would pass on it and just recognize those jurisdictions who allow it. Now the fun and games begin as out of date laws will be challenged and rewritten. It must be Christmas for lawyers!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> These have been interesting reads! Hindsight is always 20/20. As I have said many times we, on the fringe, can applaud or condem but we have time to compare policies, and most importantly, we don't make the decisions.
> 
> Reagan and FDR both did what they felt needed to be done,, but had lasting effects, some good, some bad.
> 
> I would remind you that it was greed that brought the economic down falls, whether on Wall Street or in the Industrial-Agro sectors. And, both Reagan, FDR tried to clean up messes .... Obama is in a similar position.


Rp, how can you lump Pres. Reagan in with Pres. Roosevelt and Pres. Obama????? Reagan's "me generation" slumped when he left office, but roared back to life from 2000-2008. What still lasts from the days of FDR??? Social Security. And Pres. Obama shall leave behind a national health care act (aka Obamacare). Far more multi-millionaires were created under Pres. Reagan and Pres. Bush than under Pres. Roosevelt and Pres. Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, am I surprised by this decision, I thought for sure they would pass on it and just recognize those jurisdictions who allow it. Now the fun and games begin as out of date laws will be challenged and rewritten. It must be Christmas for lawyers!


Chief Justice Anthony Kennedy voted with the four liberal justices and he was the swing vote.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It was the federal government, fueled by both parties, that created the mess by tilting the playing field with peculiar rules that caused misallocation of resources


Actually, it was a history of greed by all. The Stock Market crash in the late 20s, the Industrial-Agro raping of the land contributed to the Dust Bowl, the error by Clinton on investment banking .... The list goes on and on .... In some respects the saying you can't trust Government holds true don't you think.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, those presidents had to clean up huge messes, did they create some yes. But the effects of the past and today are not done yet, as you say we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

"At least in FDR's day, the federal government was not considered a joke." Very true, Macfury. When I was a boy, I still recall homes that had a picture of FDR on their walls as a sign of respect. I still recall being a little boy and at Thanksgiving listening to my grandparents list off the things they were thankful for on that day ............ and FDR's name was included for helping them to survive during the Great Depression.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, those presidents had to clean up huge messes, did they create some yes. But the effects of the past and today are not done yet, as you say we shall see.


True, Rp. I recall a political cartoon of a burning Cadillac with the presidential seal at the license plate and Pres. Bush getting out and tossing the keys to Pres. Obama with the caption, "Well, she's all yours now."


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, those presidents had to clean up huge messes, did they create some yes. But the effects of the past and today are not done yet, as you say we shall see.


Interesting ............ but FDR had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Hoover, Pres. Carter had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Ford, Pres. Clinton had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama had to clean up the various messes created by Pres. Bush. An interesting pattern is emerging ...........................


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting ............ but FDR had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Hoover, Pres. Carter had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Ford, Pres. Clinton had to clean up the "mess" partially created by Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama had to clean up the various messes created by Pres. Bush. An interesting pattern is emerging ...........................


Yes but President Clinton created a mess when he changed the laws on investment banking, Bush didn't do anything but knew of the Sub-Prime issue for years, he just wanted to be a War President.


----------



## Macfury

Looks like those prices were already dropping before FDR got involved. Nice that you give him credit for what was already happening:



Dr.G. said:


> True!!! And for what???? Electricity. When FDR took office, the private sector controlled 94 percent of electricity generation, essentially unregulated, and they could sell it to whomever they wanted to and for a price that they calculated would make them the most profits. And the kerosene industry collapsed when the folks in the TVA could have electricity for lighting, rather than kerosene lamps.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Yes but President Clinton created a mess when he changed the laws on investment banking, Bush didn't do anything but knew of the Sub-Prime issue for years, he just wanted to be a War President.


True. The Clinton administration lost the battle to use pensions to fund low-income housing, but it succeeded in winning the war by drafting Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the commercial banking system into the affordable-housing effort. Sadly, by 2008, these institutions, along with many "too big to fail" banks and investment firms, came off the rails.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, they're all to blame for covering it up. Likewise, the 1929 stock market crash was exacerbated by government policies that encouraged mass speculation.



Rps said:


> Yes but President Clinton created a mess when he changed the laws on investment banking, Bush didn't do anything but knew of the Sub-Prime issue for years, he just wanted to be a War President.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> True. The Clinton administration lost the battle to use pensions to fund low-income housing, but it succeeded in winning the war by drafting Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the commercial banking system into the affordable-housing effort. Sadly, by 2008, these institutions, along with many "too big to fail" banks and investment firms, came off the rails.


How do you spell greed? ..... A.B.C.P.


----------



## Macfury

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac "blessed" those derivatives. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not simply carried by the same crisis, they enabled the crisis. It would not have happened without them.



Dr.G. said:


> True. The Clinton administration lost the battle to use pensions to fund low-income housing, but it succeeded in winning the war by drafting Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the commercial banking system into the affordable-housing effort. Sadly, by 2008, these institutions, along with many "too big to fail" banks and investment firms, came off the rails.


----------



## Dr.G.

Eloquent final paragraph of Anthony Kennedy's gay marriage opinion goes viral - Trending - CBC News

Eloquent final paragraph of Anthony Kennedy's gay marriage opinion goes viral.

Well said, Mr. Chief Justice Kennedy. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

That paragraph is simply filled with emotional nonsense. The question was never about the level of passion one person feels for another. The SC should deliver the verdict for the legal reason required, and not render a verdict based on their level of emotional engagement with the issue.

Justice Scalia is correct:



> "The opinion is couched in a style that is as pretentious as its content is egotistic."
> 
> "Understand well what this dissent is about: It is not about whether, in my judgment, the institution of marriage should be changed to include same-sex couples. It is instead about whether, in our democratic republic, that decision should rest with the people acting through their elected representatives, or with five lawyers who happen to hold commissions authorizing them to resolve legal disputes according to law."
> 
> "Until the courts put a stop to it, public debate over same-sex marriage displayed American democracy at its best. But the Court ends this debate, in an opinion lacking even a thin veneer of law."


----------



## Rps

Scalia comments are spoken like a true originalist.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPQjtR85EU

Very good speech. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

In my honest opinion, this was one of his best speeches since the inauguration.


----------



## Macfury

Typical teleprompter mush from President Obama. It would nice to hear him say something of substance instead of going over and over to the emotional well.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPQjtR85EU
> 
> Very good speech. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Will check the speech out later but if past history is any indicator it is about 180° opposed to whatever his real intentions are.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmRAxJIa0u8

Another touching moment from Pres. Obama. Who knew he could sing?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Typical teleprompter mush from President Obama. It would nice to hear him say something of substance instead of going over and over to the emotional well.


No teleprompter ............ this came from his intellect and heart.


----------



## Dr.G.

Something worth smiling about this week. This shall be the foundation of his legacy. Then there is the icing on the cake. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPQjtR85EU[/ame]

Yes, real change is possible. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., when the Obama Administration applied FATCA to your savings, I recall that you decided you did not wish to contribute to his legacy.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., none of this is permanent. Obama's legacy is economic chaos, record debt and cultural rot.


ON this we can agree, MF.

He failed to go after the Wall Street bankers / financiers and hold them accountable for the economic crisis. Few were fined, fewer still ended up in jail, and all firms were able to carry on as if nothing happened.

The US debt remains in the hands of an 'enemy' power, while Billions of dollars are wasted in military adventurism and ridiculous war machine production while the national infrastructure continues to crumble.

As for cultural rot... how does one excise the cancers of bigotry, racism and violence? Removing a single flag from a statehouse sure as heck won't do it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., when the Obama Administration applied FATCA to your savings, I recall that you decided you did not wish to contribute to his legacy.


Well, I wanted to keep my American citizenship, Macfury. To date, I have had to pay $2 to the US Treasury for my share of Obamacare ............. even though I can't use it. Such is Life.


----------



## Macfury

Bread and circuses like a Supreme Court gay marriage decision capture the attention of the nation while it quietly falls to pieces. 

President Obama could have done three easy things to earn my respect, that one would believe are not inconsistent with his general message and that would have provided him with a lasting legacy:

1. Eliminate corporate welfare. I'm not talking about normal business deductions here.
2. Prosecute those who broke the law during the 2008 financial crisis, both in the private sector and at Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.
3. Stop the unwarranted spying on American citizens that has accelerated under his watch.

Progressives, socialists, conservatives and libertarians could get behind these three planks and agree they make things better for everyone. 





CubaMark said:


> ON this we can agree, MF.
> 
> He failed to go after the Wall Street bankers / financiers and hold them accountable for the economic crisis. Few were fined, fewer still ended up in jail, and all firms were able to carry on as if nothing happened.
> 
> The US debt remains in the hands of an 'enemy' power, while Billions of dollars are wasted in military adventurism and ridiculous war machine production while the national infrastructure continues to crumble.
> 
> As for cultural rot... how does one excise the cancers of bigotry, racism and violence? Removing a single flag from a statehouse sure as heck won't do it.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Bread and circuses like a Supreme Court gay marriage decision capture the attention of the nation while it quietly falls to pieces.
> 
> President Obama could have done three easy things to earn my respect, that one would believe are not inconsistent with his general message and that would have provided him with a lasting legacy:
> 
> 1. Eliminate corporate welfare. I'm not talking about normal business deductions here.
> 2. Prosecute those who broke the law during the 2008 financial crisis, both in the private sector and at Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.
> 3. Stop the unwarranted spying on American citizens that has accelerated under his watch.
> 
> Progressives, socialists, conservatives and libertarians could get behind these three planks and agree they make things better for everyone.


All sadly true, though I am 100% certain that the domestic spying would have accelerated just as rapidly under a Republirat pres. The illiphants have had control of both House and Senate for well over a year and almost no effort expended on any of these three fronts. Replacing the clearly unconstitutional Patriot Act with its fraternal twin The Freedom Act does not count.

Looks like July 2nd before we find out if Congress is going to do anything at all to help the 7.5 Million Americans abroad escape total ruin under the wheels of the IRS juggernaut.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting. Three Republicans running for president, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Marco Rubio, are now supporting a policy of nullification, which is to say, the concept of the states that would form the Confederacy during pre-and-during the Civil War years when these states threatened to nullify federal law so that they could maintain slavery and secede from the union. When Abraham Lincoln won the presidency in 1860, many factions in the Southern states assumed he would end slavery and make blacks politically and social equal to whites, even though the Republican Party's campaign platform promised no interference with slavery where it already existed. South Carolina again led the charge, using nullification theory to justify its refusal to accept the results of a national election and rallying other Southern states to secede. In his resignation speech to the U.S. Senate, Mississippi Sen. Jefferson Davis said, "Nullification is a remedy which is sought to apply within the Union," further stating that it would serve to preserve the Union when a state believed the federal government had overstepped its authority.

The Civil War ended most nullification efforts. However, it would seem that now, these three Republicans want to utilize the concept of nullification due to the Supreme Court ruling pertaining to same-sex marriages being legal in all 50 states in the US.

Nullification, in United States constitutional history, is a legal theory that a state has the right to nullify, or invalidate, any federal law which that state has deemed unconstitutional. The theory of nullification has never been legally upheld by federal courts.

So, should these three presidential candidates, along with any other Republican candidates or would be candidates, choose to jump on this "band wagon of nullification", I would say that this will bring an end to the Republican party being called "the party of Abraham Lincoln." We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., you are historically inaccurate. Nullification was practiced by states of both the north and south. In the face of an increasingly tyrannical federal government, and a Supreme Court that oversteps the separation of powers by writing legislation instead of ruling on it, nullification is an excellent defense. Lincoln would no doubt agree.

If you have paid attention to recent events, Rhode Island and other states have practiced nullification over federal marijuana laws because they consider them unconstitutional:

Rhode Island Uses Nullification in Hemp Debate


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., you are historically inaccurate. Nullification was practiced by states of both the north and south. In the face of an increasingly tyrannical federal government, and a Supreme Court that oversteps the separation of powers by writing legislation instead of ruling on it, nullification is an excellent defense. Lincoln would no doubt agree.
> 
> If you have paid attention to recent events, Rhode Island and other states have practiced nullification over federal marijuana laws because they consider them unconstitutional:
> 
> Rhode Island Uses Nullification in Hemp Debate


Interesting. Did not know about RI and the federal marijuana laws. Still, the Supreme Court has not written any legislation that has been presented to Congress for passage, and then sent to the president for his signature. As for "an increasingly tyrannical federal government", well, there is a room reserved for folks like you in the various "vacant" Walmart stores in Texas.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

No, the Supreme Court is taking written legislation that has been presented to Congress for passage, and then sent to the president for his signature--then admittedly changing its meaning, instead of ruling on the law as written. In previous decades, the law would have been returned to Congress to be rewritten and then voted on. When the various branches no longer practice separation of powers, nullification is preferable to secession.



Dr.G. said:


> Still, the Supreme Court has not written any legislation that has been presented to Congress for passage, and then sent to the president for his signature


----------



## Rps

Okay, so where does the 14th Ammendment fit in with this?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No, the Supreme Court is taking written legislation that has been presented to Congress for passage, and then sent to the president for his signature--then admittedly changing its meaning, instead of ruling on the law as written. In previous decades, the law would have been returned to Congress to be rewritten and then voted on. When the various branches no longer practice separation of powers, nullification is preferable to secession.


Article III of the Constitution establishes the federal judiciary. Article III, Section I states that "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." 

Macfury, it is called "Judicial Review". The best-known power of the Supreme Court is judicial review, or the ability of the Court to declare a Legislative or Executive act in violation of the Constitution, is not found within the text of the Constitution itself. The Court established this doctrine in the case of Marbury v. Madison (1803). 

In this case, the Court had to decide whether an Act of Congress or the Constitution was the supreme law of the land. The Judiciary Act of 1789 gave the Supreme Court original jurisdiction to issue writs of mandamus (legal orders compelling government officials to act in accordance with the law). A suit was brought under this Act, but the Supreme Court noted that the Constitution did not permit the Court to have original jurisdiction in this matter. Since Article VI of the Constitution establishes the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land, the Court held that an Act of Congress that is contrary to the Constitution could not stand. In subsequent cases, the Court also established its authority to strike down state laws found to be in violation of the Constitution. 

Before the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment (1869), the provisions of the Bill of Rights were only applicable to the federal government. After the Amendment's passage, the Supreme Court began ruling that most of its provisions were applicable to the states as well. Therefore, the Court has the final say over when a right is protected by the Constitution or when a Constitutional right is violated.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, have you abandoned your Libertarian beliefs? The Libertarians in the US actually supported Pres. Obama's policy of "don't ask, don't tell", since it is consistent with their fundamental beliefs. Maybe you are "a house divided" ............ one side of you is a conservative Republican, while the other side has a belief in some of the Democratic Party's platform under Pres. Obama. If it is the latter, welcome to the Club. "This time I know our side will win." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0

"With the Libertarian Party, unlike other political groups, there was never any need laboriously to raise its consciousness on the issue of gay liberation, nor to compel it, after long, drawn-out battles, finally to concede the humanity and first class citizenship of gay men and women. Instead, the Libertarian Party was born believing in gay rights. The need to promote full freedom of individual development for all persons is what led to the formation of our Party; and the very first mention of us in The New York Times (“New Party Makes a Debut in Denver,” February 6, 1972) lists as our first objective (even ahead of abolition of the draft, amnesty for draft-evaders and deserters, private ownership of gold, etc.): “Repeal of all criminal laws in which there is no victim.”

Gay rights have been an issue in practically every major Libertarian campaign since then, including John Hospers’ try for the Presidency in 1972 (he did get one electoral vote, thus coming in a close third to McGovern); Fran Youngstein’s campaign for Mayor of New York; Jerry Tuccille’s try for Governor of New York in 1974; and the 1975 bids of Ray Cunningham for Mayor of San Francisco, and Dave Long for Mayor of Boston. It is also an integral part of the campaign of Roger MacBride and David Bergland, our candidates for President and Vice-President in 1976. At the Libertarian National Convention in New York City, in August, 1975, at which MacBride and Bergland were nominated, the following Platform planks were adopted unanimously.

'We hold that only actions which infringe the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all federal, state and local laws creating “crimes” without victims. In particular, we advocate: … . (b) the repeal of all laws regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution and solicitation, and the immediate cessation of state oppression of homosexual men and women, that at last they be accorded their full rights as individuals … (e) the use of executive pardon to free all those presently incarcerated for the commission of these “crimes.”

We call for the end of Defense Department policy of discharging armed forces personnel for homosexual conduct when such conduct does not interfere with their assigned duties. We further call for the retraction of all less-than-honorable discharges previously assigned for such reasons and the deletion of such information from military personnel files.' "

Gay Rights: A Libertarian Approach | Libertarianism.org

"The Libertarian Party of the United States takes the following positions relevant to LGBT rights:[11]
Section 1.3 "Personal Relationships": Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.

Section 3.5 "Rights and Discrimination": We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liber...hts#Libertarian_Party_platform_on_LGBT_rights


----------



## eMacMan

*Politicians to be banned from Colorado Springs Sidewalks.*

Well technically they want to ban lying on Colorado Springs sidewalks which would effectively ban politicians from walking the same whilst talking.



> City officials are working on an ordinance, at Mayor John Suthers' behest, to ban people from sitting or lying on sidewalks, planters or anywhere else not specifically designed to be sat upon downtown and in Old Colorado City.
> 
> 
> "I don't see this as a civil rights or human rights issue," Suthers said Wednesday. "No one ought to be able to lay on the sidewalk. We ought to make our sidewalks safe for passage so people don't feel obstructed or harassed. I just don't see that it's anti-homeless to say you can't lie or sit on sidewalks."
> ....


Suthers wants no sitting, lying on sidewalks and planters in downtown Colorado Springs


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Okay, so where does the 14th Ammendment fit in with this?


Before the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment (1869), the provisions of the Bill of Rights were only applicable to the federal government. After the Amendment's passage, the Supreme Court began ruling that most of its provisions were applicable to the states as well. Therefore, the Court has the final say over when a right is protected by the Constitution or when a Constitutional right is violated.


----------



## Macfury

It does not allow the Supreme Court to change the meaning of the law. It only allows the Supreme Court to rule on the Constitutionality of the issue presented to it. For example, if a case asks the Supreme Court to rule, for example,on the Constitutionality of a law that does not allow illegal aliens to obtain drivers licenses, the court must rule up or down on that question. It is out of its scope to rule, for example, that society is better off with more people driving, therefore the law does not apply to illegal aliens, even though the law expressly says it does.



Dr.G. said:


> Article III of the Constitution establishes the federal judiciary. Article III, Section I states that "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."
> 
> Macfury, it is called "Judicial Review". The best-known power of the Supreme Court is judicial review, or the ability of the Court to declare a Legislative or Executive act in violation of the Constitution, is not found within the text of the Constitution itself. The Court established this doctrine in the case of Marbury v. Madison (1803).


----------



## Macfury

The Libertarian policy is a much better one since it neither prevents homosexuals from marrying or requires anyone to be forced to bake someone's wedding cake. 

The issues surrounding homosexuality aren't of much interest to me. The due process of law is.



Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, have you abandoned your Libertarian beliefs? The Libertarians in the US actually supported Pres. Obama's policy of "don't ask, don't tell", since it is consistent with their fundamental beliefs. Maybe you are "a house divided" ............ one side of you is a conservative Republican, while the other side has a belief in some of the Democratic Party's platform under Pres. Obama. If it is the latter, welcome to the Club. "This time I know our side will win." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0
> 
> "With the Libertarian Party, unlike other political groups, there was never any need laboriously to raise its consciousness on the issue of gay liberation, nor to compel it, after long, drawn-out battles, finally to concede the humanity and first class citizenship of gay men and women. Instead, the Libertarian Party was born believing in gay rights. The need to promote full freedom of individual development for all persons is what led to the formation of our Party; and the very first mention of us in The New York Times (“New Party Makes a Debut in Denver,” February 6, 1972) lists as our first objective (even ahead of abolition of the draft, amnesty for draft-evaders and deserters, private ownership of gold, etc.): “Repeal of all criminal laws in which there is no victim.”
> 
> Gay rights have been an issue in practically every major Libertarian campaign since then, including John Hospers’ try for the Presidency in 1972 (he did get one electoral vote, thus coming in a close third to McGovern); Fran Youngstein’s campaign for Mayor of New York; Jerry Tuccille’s try for Governor of New York in 1974; and the 1975 bids of Ray Cunningham for Mayor of San Francisco, and Dave Long for Mayor of Boston. It is also an integral part of the campaign of Roger MacBride and David Bergland, our candidates for President and Vice-President in 1976. At the Libertarian National Convention in New York City, in August, 1975, at which MacBride and Bergland were nominated, the following Platform planks were adopted unanimously.
> 
> 'We hold that only actions which infringe the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all federal, state and local laws creating “crimes” without victims. In particular, we advocate: … . (b) the repeal of all laws regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution and solicitation, and the immediate cessation of state oppression of homosexual men and women, that at last they be accorded their full rights as individuals … (e) the use of executive pardon to free all those presently incarcerated for the commission of these “crimes.”
> 
> We call for the end of Defense Department policy of discharging armed forces personnel for homosexual conduct when such conduct does not interfere with their assigned duties. We further call for the retraction of all less-than-honorable discharges previously assigned for such reasons and the deletion of such information from military personnel files.' "
> 
> Gay Rights: A Libertarian Approach | Libertarianism.org
> 
> "The Libertarian Party of the United States takes the following positions relevant to LGBT rights:[11]
> Section 1.3 "Personal Relationships": Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.
> 
> Section 3.5 "Rights and Discrimination": We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs."
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liber...hts#Libertarian_Party_platform_on_LGBT_rights


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It does not allow the Supreme Court to change the meaning of the law. It only allows the Supreme Court to rule on the Constitutionality of the issue presented to it. For example, if a case asks the Supreme Court to rule, for example,on the Constitutionality of a law that does not allow illegal aliens to obtain drivers licenses, the court must rule up or down on that question. It is out of its scope to rule, for example, that society is better off with more people driving, therefore the law does not apply to illegal aliens, even though the law expressly says it does.


Justice Scalia, appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1986, has promoted a view known as “originalism” – an especially literal reading of the Constitution. Since there was no right to same-sex marriage when the 14th amendment on equal protection of laws was ratified in 1868, “that resolves these cases,” he said.

The opposite view is known in the U.S. as “living constitutionalism,” in which law reflects changing times. (In Canadian terms, the Charter of Rights is known as a “living tree.”)

So, they are not changing the meaning of the law, but interpreting it's constitutionality, which is their role. You may not like their ruling, but, just like in baseball, it is difficult to argue with the umpire.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Libertarian policy is a much better one since it neither prevents homosexuals from marrying or requires anyone to be forced to bake someone's wedding cake.
> 
> The issues surrounding homosexuality aren't of much interest to me. The due process of law is.


Well, you do seem to follow the Preamble to the Libertarian Party's constitution in the US. Good for you. :clap:

"PREAMBLE

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."

Of course, your respect for the due process of the law should also follow this belief as well. The due process clause also promises that before depriving a citizen of life, liberty or property, government must follow fair procedures. Thus, it is not always enough for the government just to act in accordance with whatever law there may happen to be. Citizens may also be entitled to have the government observe or offer fair procedures, whether or not those procedures have been provided for in the law on the basis of which it is acting. Action denying the process that is “due” would be unconstitutional.

So, it sounds as if we are actually in agreement that the Supreme Court was wise and just in their decision. Welcome home, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

No, we do not agree. And for obvious reasons.



Dr.G. said:


> So, it sounds as if we are actually in agreement that the Supreme Court was wise and just in their decision. Welcome home, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Seriously, CM--another shi**y meme? A damn shame when pesky facts obliterate your sloppy thinking. Do you apply the same historic rigour in your academic studies? 

First, you're starting with a straw man. The quotes do not even address whether America is a Christian nation. The people quoted are opining largely on the _establishment of a state religion._ However, the vast majority of signers and framers believed that the nation was founded on Christian principles.

1. a) Thomas Jefferson did not say that Christianity was _the most perverted system that ever shone on man_. He said it was _sublime and benevolent_ but often perverted by others. 


> "...those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, endeavored to crush your well earnt, & well deserved fame." - Letter to Joseph Priestley, Washington, March 21, 1801



1 b) Thomas Jefferson said that "Christianity neither is nor was a part of Common Law" to distinguish a time line because Common Law preceded the Christianization of the Saxons:


> If, therefore, _from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians_, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.



2. John Adams, in an effort to stop Muslims from attacking US ships in the Mediterranean assured them in a treaty that: “The *Government* of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,” therefore it was not necessary to attack ships marked by American flags. Didn't the founders already make this obvious?

3. Paine's quote is correct. However, it does not state that the US was not founded on Christian principles. Paine specifically is arguing that religion ought not to be mixed with government--no surprise and not relevant to your meme. The publication of the _Age of Reason_ from which that quote is derived inspired far more signatories of the Declaration of Independence to declare the reverse. 

4. Madison's quote applies to the establishment of a state religion. In large part he was more concerned that religion would suffer than that government would be corrupted:


> "And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. ...*The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt.*"


On the other hand:



> "The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” – John Quincy Adams





> "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" – Thomas Jefferson





> “That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic rests.”
> – Andrew Jackson


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No, we do not agree. And for obvious reasons.


Well, let's agree to disagree then ............ Still, paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I agree. The U.S. Was most certainly founded on Christian Principles and to a lesser extent it still is.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I agree. The U.S. Was most certainly founded on Christian Principles and to a lesser extent it still is.


I find it incredibly disingenuous to see so many quotes either manufactured, edited or taken out of context. I love an honest debate, but not a cheapjack meme that pretends to wrap up the tough requirements of actual thought in a single jpg.


----------



## Rps

From the Washington Post, and if you are a Constitutional Lawyer in the U.S. It is Christmas In July....

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) on Sunday advised county clerks, magistrates and others who have religious objections to same-sex marriage that they may opt out of providing services to same-sex couples seeking marriage licenses.

Let the games begin!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> From the Washington Post, and if you are a Constitutional Lawyer in the U.S. It is Christmas In July....
> 
> Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) on Sunday advised county clerks, magistrates and others who have religious objections to same-sex marriage that they may opt out of providing services to same-sex couples seeking marriage licenses.
> 
> Let the games begin!


Anyone who thought that the SC ruling was the end of the issue had rocks in their head. Again, particularly because the Supreme Court ruling was not based on a legal argument--but more on the various justices' ruminations about love--there will be incredible pushback.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Anyone who thought that the SC ruling was the end of the issue had rocks in their head. Again, particularly because the Supreme Court ruling was not based on a legal argument--but more on the various justices' ruminations about love--there will be incredible pushback.


This will be fun to watch! Do you think the battle will be geographic, or on party lines?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> This will be fun to watch! Do you think the battle will be geographic, or on party lines?


Both. No Democrat would dare argue freedom of conscience on this one and no northeastern Republican would dare accept anything other than a Democrat position on the issue.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama announces reestablishment of U.S.-Cuba ties - CNNPolitics.com

This was a long time in coming, but it is finally here.


----------



## Macfury

> "You don't have to be imprisoned by the past," he said. "If something isn't working, we can and will change."


If Obama actually lived by that credo, then his entire legislative agenda would be reversed.


> Many critics of Obama's decision to thaw relations, however, have argued that *restoring ties with a regime that has violated human rights only complicates efforts to improve their record. **They have also expressed frustration that Obama has not pressed Cuba to do more on this front as part of the rapprochement.*


Obama never negotiates a tough deal or achieves benefits on behalf of America. Possibly the worst negotiator in modern presidential history. But who cares about human rights on such a glorious day?!



Dr.G. said:


> Obama announces reestablishment of U.S.-Cuba ties - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This was a long time in coming, but it is finally here.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> But who cares about human rights on such a glorious day?!


A lot of people who haven't been to Cuba have a distorted view of what it's really like there. It's far from perfect, but it's a lot better than you think.


----------



## CubaMark

heavyall said:


> A lot of people who haven't been to Cuba have a distorted view of what it's really like there. It's far from perfect, but it's a lot better than you think.


On this, at least, we can agree.


----------



## eMacMan

As long as the Patriot Act or as it is now called the (Anti-)Freedom Act remains in place, the US has zero claim to superiority in the area of human rights.


----------



## Macfury

Even with that Act in place, it is still superior.



eMacMan said:


> As long as the Patriot Act or as it is now called the (Anti-)Freedom Act remains in place, the US has zero claim to superiority in the area of human rights.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Even with that Act in place, it is still superior.


In some aspects, the US is marginally better. In others, Cuba comes out ahead.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> In some aspects, the US is marginally better. In others, Cuba comes out ahead.


I think you're suffering from a variant of Stockholm Syndrome, but go ahead--lay them out, and maybe we'll learn something.


----------



## Dr.G.

For all my fellow Americans here in this thread ...........


----------



## Rps

From today's Washington Post on Mr. trump's speech in Pheonix.

Lou Brudnock, 71, said he is attracted to Trump’s brash “truthfulness” on immigration and his willingness to be politically incorrect.

“This country today is sad, sad, sad,” Brudnock said. “You can’t say anything or they call you ‘a racist.’ It’s like we’re back in Nazi Germany. But look around, man. It’s people here reading and listening to his message.”

Just wondering if he's talking about Trump's speech style or his view of the country in general.


----------



## Macfury

I don't understand what you mean.



Rps said:


> From today's Washington Post on Mr. trump's speech in Pheonix.
> 
> Lou Brudnock, 71, said he is attracted to Trump’s brash “truthfulness” on immigration and his willingness to be politically incorrect.
> 
> “This country today is sad, sad, sad,” Brudnock said. “You can’t say anything or they call you ‘a racist.’ It’s like we’re back in Nazi Germany. But look around, man. It’s people here reading and listening to his message.”
> 
> Just wondering if he's talking about Trump's speech style or his view of the country in general.


----------



## Rps

I found it humours, and sadly ironic, that Mr. Brudnock compared his view of political correctness of America to Nazi Germany, when an analysis of Mr. Trumps speeches are more in line with the hegemony of that group ..... single populist target, ethnic based, well staged and dramatic speeches, but weak in overall substance. 

So before the readers here get their knickers in a knot, I am not saying Mr. Trump is a Nazi, far from it, but I found the comments by one of his many followers interesting.


----------



## Macfury

In all kindness, I think that's a reach, rps. I haven't heard a single recent speech from any politician that was strong in substance. The divisiveness of President Obama's speeches, or his attempts to disarm citizens could just as easily be attributed to the leader of a totalitarian regime.



Rps said:


> I found it humours, and sadly ironic, that Mr. Brudnock compared his view of political correctness of America to Nazi Germany, when an analysis of Mr. Trumps speeches are more in line with the hegemony of that group ..... single populist target, ethnic based, well staged and dramatic speeches, but weak in overall substance.
> 
> So before the readers here get their knickers in a knot, I am not saying Mr. Trump is a Nazi, far from it, but I found the comments by one of his many followers interesting.


----------



## Rps

Some truth there, but we are only just entering speech season south of the border. Mr. Trump currently has about 15% of the GOP supporters backing. If he makes it to the top 10 watch him ramp up America the Brave and Beautiful. The GOP must be hating this. My choice if I could vote would be for Jeb Bush. I am thinking Mr. Trump is thinking he is the fav because he attacks him in many of his speeches. I don't think Trump is astute enough to be a ( pardon the pun ) bush rustler.


----------



## Macfury

To me, Jeb Bush is as mediocre a presidential candidate as Hillary Clinton. Both of them would continue to promote policies driving the country to its demise. I'm also grossly uncomfortable with presidential family dynasties inside a democracy.

Trump _is_ in the Top 10! He averages a number 7 over the past four weeks, and in recent polls ranks first or second. He is scoring well simply because he is articulating issues important to voters.

I would gladly take Donald Trump over Jeb Bush, but Trump doesn't really want to be president. My preferences, in order, are: Scott Walker, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz. I believe Bush has an artificially high polling number largely because some of the support for various anti-establishment Republicans is split among four or five candidates. Bush may take up some of the support from dreadful candidates like Huckabee and Christie, but there's a lot more support divided among Walker, Paul, Rubio, Cruz, Carson, Jindal, etc. When Trump pulls out, his support will be allocated there.




Rps said:


> Some truth there, but we are only just entering speech season south of the border. Mr. Trump currently has about 15% of the GOP supporters backing. If he makes it to the top 10 watch him ramp up America the Brave and Beautiful. The GOP must be hating this. My choice if I could vote would be for Jeb Bush. I am thinking Mr. Trump is thinking he is the fav because he attacks him in many of his speeches. I don't think Trump is astute enough to be a ( pardon the pun ) bush rustler.


----------



## Dr.G.

"My preferences, in order, are: Scott Walker, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio." Walker over Rand Paul????????????????? Have you forsaken your libertarian beliefs, Macfury ?????????????????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "My preferences, in order, are: Scott Walker, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio." Walker over Rand Paul????????????????? Have you forsaken your libertarian beliefs, Macfury ?????????????????


Sorry, I meant Ted Cruz instead of Marco Rubio.

I am supporting the candidate most likely to succeed in moving the country toward libertarianism. Walker/Rand would be an excellent ticket.


----------



## Rps

I agree that Jeb would be like establishing a monarchy, but I like him better than most. I think Rand Paul's weakness is his economic views. However this is moot as I don't see him getting in. I don't think we've seen the GOP candidate yet. I have this sense that both Canada and the U.S. are becoming more conservative ... I think, and I hope I am very wrong here, that we are in pre-war mode. The lines are being drawn and it will be something stupid that sets it off. China is a concern.

I am also not so sure that Ms. Clinton is it for the Dems.


----------



## Macfury

Depends on whether mean old Uncle Joe Biden brings his false teeth and hair plugs to the party. Bernie Sanders is packing 'em in and is doing a good of articulating issues that the other candidates won't touch--as Trump is doing on the other side. However, Sanders' history of writing disparaging treatises on women will sink him faster than his unabashed socialism.



Rps said:


> I am also not so sure that Ms. Clinton is it for the Dems.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> I am supporting the candidate most likely to succeed in moving the country toward libertarianism.


It still makes me shake my head that the Liberatarian Party is not one of the major parties in the US. Their policies seem to be the epitome of the "The American Way™"


----------



## Rps

heavyall said:


> It still makes me shake my head that the Liberatarian Party is not one of the major parties in the US. Their policies seem to be the epitome of the "The American Way™"


I don't think the U.S. can support anything other than a two party system. For me you need to establish these at the State level then move up. I don't see that happening as the States each seem to have their own protocols and such. But, a single State beachhead would do them well. Texas maybe?


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> It still makes me shake my head that the Liberatarian Party is not one of the major parties in the US. Their policies seem to be the epitome of the "The American Way™"


The rabble is being bought off by printing presses spitting out cash 24/7. Once you're on the dole, the American Way looks pretty damned scary--and requires too much hard work.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I would vote for Ms. Warren, you?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I would vote for Ms. Warren, you?


No. Her beliefs in the supremacy of government intervention are anathema to me.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> No. Her beliefs in the supremacy of government intervention are anathema to me.


Really! She strikes me as "more likely" to get your vote candidate than most other Democrats...... Too, Republican for you? This isn't a slight, she seems more GOP than most Dems I have followed.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Really! She strikes me as "more likely" to get your vote candidate than most other Democrats...... Too, Republican for you? This isn't a slight, she seems more GOP than most Dems I have followed.


She is an unabashed statist. She is now as far to the left as Hillary or Obama. Her "You didn't build that" speech was appalling--and so loved by Obama that he stole it.

She is lying when she says that she created the underpinnings of the Occupy Wall Street movement, but that she claims it at all is troubling enough.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> She is an unabashed statist. She is now as far to the left as Hillary or Obama. Her "You didn't build that" speech was appalling--and so loved by Obama that he stole it.
> 
> She is lying when she says that she created the underpinnings of the Occupy Wall Street movement, but that she claims it at all is troubling enough.


Smoke screen I am thinking. We will see.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Smoke screen I am thinking. We will see.


A smoke screen for what? Free market ideals?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> A smoke screen for what? Free market ideals?


Running!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sorry, I meant Ted Cruz instead of Marco Rubio.
> 
> I am supporting the candidate most likely to succeed in moving the country toward libertarianism. Walker/Rand would be an excellent ticket.


You have abandoned Rand to the abyss that is called the Vice Presidency???????


----------



## Macfury

The US population is too dependent on welfare to actively vote for a Libertarian.



Dr.G. said:


> You have abandoned Rand to the abyss that is called the Vice Presidency???????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The US population is too dependent on welfare to actively vote for a Libertarian.


Well, if you abandon your Libertarian roots, there is no hope. "There is no joy in ehMacLand, for mighty Macfury has bailed out." Such is Life.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Well, if you abandon your Libertarian roots, there is no hope. "There is no joy in ehMacLand, for mighty Macfury has bailed out." Such is Life.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Perhaps he just succumbed to the lure of a bail-in.

Expect to see him posting soon as Freddie MacFury.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Perhaps he just succumbed to the lure of a bail-in.
> 
> Expect to see him posting soon as Freddie MacFury.


Never!!! Death before dishonor. Macfury will see the light and return to his libertarian roots. You shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Fury won't, but Fannie May...



eMacMan said:


> Perhaps he just succumbed to the lure of a bail-in.
> 
> Expect to see him posting soon as Freddie MacFury.


----------



## eMacMan

> Trump launched a poll-scoring but much maligned bid for the White House last month, with a caustic speech railing against illegal immigrants, and calling Mexicans drug traffickers and rapists.
> 
> In a statement on Monday, Trump said: "I'm fighting for the future of our country which is being overrun by criminals. You can't be intimidated. This is too important."


As with most politicians Trump manages to twist the truth to support a deception.

The criminals whom are over running the country can be found in the House of Representatives, other than ~95 of them who inhabit the Senate. Tighter border security is not going to have any impact on the damage they cause.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Fury won't, but Fannie May...


:lmao: What will Deleware? I don't know, Alaska.


----------



## BigDL

Perhaps a brand New Jersey?


----------



## Dr.G.

BigDL said:


> Perhaps a brand New Jersey?


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

"My preferences, in order, are: Scott Walker, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio." An interesting article on the CBC site for you, Macfury.

Scott Walker presidential bid: Why one of the least-known Republicans has one of the best shots - World - CBC News


----------



## Rps

BigDL said:


> Perhaps a brand New Jersey?


Not sure, maybe they will grab their iPhone and Texas? Juneau anything is possible.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Not sure, maybe they will grab their iPhone and Texas? Juneau anything is possible.


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

If Walker were to be elected president, he would be the first college dropout to do so since Harry Truman. Interesting, given how much I like HST. Still, Walker is no HST-like progressive.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Still, Walker is no HST-like progressive.


HST was socialist by the standards of his time--and a flaming racist by the standards of this time.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> HST was socialist by the standards of his time--and a flaming racist by the standards of this time.


Strange how you can say that, knowing the heat he took from the Dixiecrats for his views that civil rights were "a moral priority". Back in 1948 , HST submitted the first comprehensive legislation dealing with civil rights, even though he was born and raised in MO. His Executive Orders that same year aimed to start racial integration in the military and federal agencies.


----------



## BigDL

Rps said:


> Not sure, maybe they will grab their iPhone and Texas? Juneau anything is possible.


...it is enough to make Georgia Pine!


----------



## Rps

BigDL said:


> ...it is enough to make Georgia Pine!


Well politicians are given a public trust and they shouldn't Piscataway!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Strange how you can say that, knowing the heat he took from the Dixiecrats for his views that civil rights were "a moral priority". Back in 1948 , HST submitted the first comprehensive legislation dealing with civil rights, even though he was born and raised in MO. His Executive Orders that same year aimed to start racial integration in the military and federal agencies.


He had certainly changed his stance by that year! But what does that matter? If we hold Democrats accountable to the same standards applied to Republicans, any identifiable racism is eternal, no matter how far back it goes.


----------



## Rps

A question MacFury if I may, are you saying it is eternal because it is history, or that no one or party can change?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> A question MacFury if I may, are you saying it is eternal because it is history, or that no one or party can change?


I am saying that if a Republican were found to have made a racist statement in the past, he or she would be considered eternally unredeemable. In the US, only Democrats are granted such a luxury. For example, no Republican could continue to run if he had ever said--as did Bernie Sanders--that women fantasize about being gang raped.


----------



## Rps

Hmmmmm, I think this borders on personal opinion. I am sure both parties have had flubs and context correct errors.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He had certainly changed his stance by that year! But what does that matter? If we hold Democrats accountable to the same standards applied to Republicans, any identifiable racism is eternal, no matter how far back it goes.


What specifics are you considering when calling HST a racist?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> What specifics are you considering when calling HST a racist?


People are rather forgiving of his brief flirtation with the KKK, but I am thinking of letters early on containing statements on how the races came to be formed. I would not post them here.


----------



## Macfury

I see that Obama caved to the Iranians. Reversal of sanctions in exchange for nothing. Pray for Israel that this deal, which has no mechanism for guaranteed verification, will never be implemented.

Peace in our time!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> People are rather forgiving of his brief flirtation with the KKK, but I am thinking of letters early on containing statements on how the races came to be formed. I would not post them here.


Not being an American historian, I do know there were pros and cons on his membership to the KKK. But I would guess that his initial view that it was a patriotic organisation ( which was how it was marketed back then) might have been the reason for joining. What is known is he resigned his membership.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not being an American historian, I do know there were pros and cons on his membership to the KKK. But I would guess that his initial view that it was a patriotic organisation ( which was how it was marketed back then) might have been the reason for joining. What is known is he resigned his membership.


Yes, that is why I am not concentrating on his Klan membership.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I see that Obama caved to the Iranians. Reversal of sanctions in exchange for nothing. Pray for Israel that this deal, which has no mechanism for guaranteed verification, will never be implemented.
> 
> Peace in our time!


I am not convinced that Iran is the real enemy here. I have often felt that stated enemies can be more ally, as you know where they stand. I have always wondered about Israel's Middle East Allies...... If I lived in Israel today I would be more concerned with Jordan, the traditional visa backdoor.


----------



## Macfury

If they stand on your destruction as a nation, they are not your ally, even if you are certain of their intentions.



Rps said:


> I am not convinced that Iran is the real enemy here. I have often felt that stated enemies can be more ally, as you know where they stand. I have always wondered about Israel's Middle East Allies...... If I lived in Israel today I would be more concerned with Jordan, the traditional visa backdoor.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If they stand on your destruction as a nation, they are not your ally, even if you are certain of their intentions.


Agreed, but at least there will be no surprises. If you know what to expect you seldom make strategic errors politically.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Agreed, but at least there will be no surprises. If you know what to expect you seldom make strategic errors politically.


So if you know that you are gift wrapping an Iranian nuke, Israel will at least know that a nuclear attack is within the realms of the possible?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> So if you know that you are gift wrapping an Iranian nuke, Israel will at least know that a nuclear attack is within the realms of the possible?


Yes, I think you can look for an explosive accident in some Iranian mountain somewhere, very soon.


----------



## Rps

Rps said:


> Yes, I think you can look for an explosive accident in some Iranian mountain somewhere, very soon.


But we are moving away from the purpose of this thread I think.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Yes, I think you can look for an explosive accident in some Iranian mountain somewhere, very soon.


So this is good, because Israel will be certain of it?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> So this is good, because Israel will be certain of it?


Violent actions are never good. Israel will use diplomacy to a point, but if they find other than what is in the treaty, lookout. And maybe we can't blame them.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Violent actions are never good. Israel will use diplomacy to a point, but if they find other than what is in the treaty, lookout. And maybe we can't blame them.


I can't blame them. Obama has sold them out.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> People are rather forgiving of his brief flirtation with the KKK, but I am thinking of letters early on containing statements on how the races came to be formed. I would not post them here.


Macfury, you may send me an email or a PM here in ehMacLand to provide this info. I knew of his going to one KKK meeting and disavowing himself of any connection with their hate. As for the letters, I have never heard of them.


----------



## CubaMark

The New York Times has an article from 1983 on Truman's early, disparaging views on Blacks, Chinese and Japanese. As to how those evolved and what views he held in later years, I am not qualified to comment.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> The New York Times has an article from 1983 on Truman's early, disparaging views on Blacks, Chinese and Japanese. As to how those evolved and what views he held in later years, I am not qualified to comment.


Luckily, they changed for the better when he was in a position to make a mark on American history.


----------



## CubaMark

Take a close look at that image.


----------



## heavyall

Lazy intern used a stock image labelled "soldiers". A little funny, but no evidence of anything.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Lazy intern used a stock image labelled "soldiers". A little funny, but no evidence of anything.


On top of that, they're Americans wearing the uniforms for some sort of movie. Blame the Democrat-fueled education system for that one!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> On top of that, they're Americans wearing the uniforms for some sort of movie. Blame the Democrat-fueled education system for that one!


Macfury, you can blame Democrats for many things, some rightly and some wrongly, but how on earth can you blame the intern's error on the Democrats???? What exactly is your so-called "the Democrat-fueled education system"????


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, you can blame Democrats for many things, some rightly and some wrongly, but how on earth can you blame the intern's error on the Democrats???? What exactly is your so-called "the Democrat-fueled education system"????


The liberal education system in the US produced interns who aren't equipped to fact-check?


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> The liberal education system in the US produced interns who aren't equipped to fact-check?


Once again, in what state was this intern born? As well, when was he/she born? You can't just blame the "liberal education system" for this sort of mistake.


----------



## Dr.G.

Jade Helm: just a U.S. military training mission or something nefarious?

Forget about the liberal US education system ................ worry more about the hundreds of people rounded up today in Texas and sent to "re-education seminars" at various Texas Walmart stores. "Room 101 awaits ....................."


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Jade Helm: just a U.S. military training mission or something nefarious?


Thanks Dr. G. for the opportunity to share this once again...


----------



## Macfury

It's simply a sign that only "progressives" trust the Obama administration at this point--and not even all of them.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> It's simply a sign that only "progressives" trust the Obama administration at this point--and not even all of them.


Speaking for myself, I trust him as far as I could possibly throw him - i.e., practically not at all. 

But it is the height of ridiculousness that Texans believe the Federal Government is secretly planning to invade and 'overthrow' the State government. What the heck is in the water down there?

I mean, this is up there with the conspiracy nuts who warn of black helicopters and the impending invasion of the USA by the United Nations....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> But it is the height of ridiculousness that Texans believe the Federal Government is secretly planning to invade and 'overthrow' the State government. What the heck is in the water down there?


The Confederate States of America certainly didn't believe that the north would wage a war of aggression on them for seceding from the Union. Obama's values are simply so far out of whack with states that still love the Constitution that people with less resolve are becoming frightened. 

Besides, it certainly wasn't Texas Republicans who believed that the US destroyed the World Trade Center on purpose.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The Confederate States of America certainly didn't believe that the north would wage a war of aggression on them for seceding from the Union.


Seriously? Basing suspicions of a Federal government takeover on something that happened *154 years ago*? There are conspiracy theories, and then there's _that!_




Macfury said:


> Obama's values are simply so far out of whack with states that still love the Constitution that people with less resolve are becoming frightened.


Obama talks about gun control, but has done nothing of note, but fear remains rampant among the (armed) fearful. He did manage to force national health care coverage on the states, though... flawed and of service entirely to the major insurance companies, but it's a policy that has put some States in a bad mood. Still, not anything serious enough to warrant the hatred thrown at him. Gay marriage? Yeah, that'll make some people angry, but again, not a big deal nation-wise. What's the big deal? What 'values' are out of whack?



Macfury said:


> Besides, it certainly wasn't Texas Republicans who believed that the US destroyed the World Trade Center on purpose.


_The 9/11 truth movement became an issue in the *2010 Texas Gubernatorial Republican* primary when* candidate Debra Medina* replied when asked by Glenn Beck about *US government involvement in the 9/11 attacks: "I think some very good questions have been raised in that regard, there are some very good arguments, and I think the American people have not seen all of the evidence there,* so I have not taken a position on that." After being criticized for the remarks by opposing candidates, Medina said that she has never been a 9/11 truth movement member and believes the twin towers were attacked by Muslim terrorists._ (Wikipedia)​


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Thanks Dr. G. for the opportunity to share this once again...


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Good ones, CM. Sadly, most of the Walmarts have reopened with their new interiors .................... and no holding tanks for those taken into custody.


----------



## Dr.G.

Miami Republican congressman posits Donald Trump candidacy may be Democratic plot | Naked Politics

Finally something that Pres. Obama can be accused of that makes sense.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump Slams John McCain, GOP Candidates Respond | Fox News Insider

Wow!! I think that Trump has gone too far with this outlandish statement.

Donald Trump questions John McCain's bravery - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., why was McCain considered a hero to begin with?



Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump Slams John McCain, GOP Candidates Respond | Fox News Insider
> 
> Wow!! I think that Trump has gone too far with this outlandish statement.
> 
> Donald Trump questions John McCain's bravery - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., why was McCain considered a hero to begin with?


Because his father was a high ranking officer in the US Navy, McCain was told he could get out of The Hanoi Hilton early. He declined and said he would wait his turn to leave. After six years he was set free. Read his autobiography and tell me you don't think he was a hero.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., why was McCain considered a hero to begin with?


I guess we throw that term around quite freely today. Mr. McCain was branded a hero because he survived capture during the Vietnam War ( as I am sure you are aware ).

Mr. Trump's comments sound like they were written by General Patton, in that it is aledged he said " no one does any good dying for your country, you do good by having someone else die for his". While probably militatristicaly accurate, tasteless.

I feel Mr. Trump thinks the more outlandish he becomes the more support he will get.

I've worked enough elections to know that you don't win by pissing-off party supporters. He may have finally crossed that line. Next thing you know he will be quoting Reagan stating that trees polute.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not saying he shouldn't be considered one--I just wondered what people were saying in the 1970s.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm not saying he shouldn't be considered one--I just wondered what people were saying in the 1970s.


Back then, few soldiers, sailors or airmen returned home to parades, but the POWs who could return home were respected and greeted warmly.


----------



## Macfury

Interesting--thanks for the insight.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Interesting--thanks for the insight.


I lived though those days, Macfury. I received a 2-S since I was in college when I turned 18 and had to register for the draft. Then I received a 1AO, which was a non-combatant military service classification (i.e., I would have gone to Vietnam as a front line para-medic). I was drafted by never called up for active duty.

Amazing that he could get three 2-S student deferments when all that was allowed was one for four years in university, and then a 1-Y, which was like winning the lottery since it was rarely given (i.e., military service only in a declared world war). Still, Trump got all of these and missed out on being a real hero all his own.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Certainly Bill Clinton could demonstrate to you Dr. G., that dodging the draft would not necessarily create a presidential candidate for whom you could not vote.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Certainly Bill Clinton could demonstrate to you Dr. G., that dodging the draft would not necessarily create a presidential candidate for whom you could not vote.


February 16, 1968 - "The Johnson administration unexpectedly abolished graduate deferments." 

December 1, 1969 - Clinton draws #311 in the first draft lottery. Thus, he was virtually assured that he would not be drafted because of the high lottery number. 

Also, it doesn't hurt that you have then Senator J. William Fulbright urging his draft board to "give every consideration'" to keep Clinton out of the draft so he could attend Oxford.


----------



## Rps

It is curious that the term Hero is used at all since, as I remember, those poor souls who were sent to Vietnam were so vilified by the population. The youth thought them "baby-killers" and the adults who came out of WW2 thought they weren't in a real war. Times have changed. While I do not use the term Hero as liberally as many do today, one thing is certain .... Those that wear the uniform have extraordinary demands made of them. They do things the average person would not do. For Mr. Trump, or any one, to make light of any one who serves their country shows me he lacks the qualities of being its leader.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> It is curious that the term Hero is used at all since, as I remember, thoseoor souls who were sent to Vietnam were so vilified by the population. The youth thought them "baby-killers" and the adults who came out of WW2 thought they were in a real war. Times have changed. While I do not used the term Hero as liberally as many do today, one thing is certain .... Those that wear the uniform have extraordinary demands made of them. They do things the average person would not do. For Mr. Trump, or any one, to make light of any one who serves their country shows me he lacks the qualities of being its leader.


Very well said, Rp. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

I see John McCain as the epitome of the mediocre quality of politician that the US produces--gutless and standing for almost nothing. In the 2008 election he didn't even appear to want to win. However, Trump would be wise not to speak of McCain's military career. Still, I would sooner vote for Trump than McCain.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I see John McCain as the epitome of the mediocre quality of politician that the US produces--gutless and standing for almost nothing. In the 2008 election he didn't even appear to want to win. However, Trump would be wise not to speak of McCain's military career. Still, I would sooner vote for Trump than McCain.


I agree with Mr. Trump stopping his rants, but, McCain ran for his party. Sometimes you do that in party politics. I think he knew he was toast but put up the brave front. I'm not so sure Trump would have done the same if in that same situation.

Mr. Trump is about theatre, with him as the star. Trump doesn't have the smarts to be President, and deep down I think he knows it. You will probably see more outlandish comments coming to ensure his non-nomination. He wants to be included in the party, not to be its host.


----------



## eMacMan

The current crop of crooks running for President is by far the worst on record. Thankfully this round I am no longer able to vote. Were I having to submit an overseas ballot my vote would go to a third party or an independent. 

I think this is a fairly objective view on McCains military background. Longish but worthwhile read. 
McCain -- Did He Show the Right Stuff?
One note, his relatively minor lie about being shot down by a SAM rather than Anti-Aircraft fire prove only that he was eminently qualified for his chosen career as a politician. There are certainly better examples of hero that came out of that boondoggle. OTOH Trump can easily find better cannon fodder for his shlock style campaign.

One should also pay close attention to his version of his initial capture as opposed to what really happened and to how he received his injuries.



> Ironically, John McCain became the beneficiary of his own mistakes as a pilot when his political career took off. He continued to claim that he had been shot down by a surface-to-air missile, when the official record said he had been downed by antiaircraft fire. The American public knew the SAM as a most terrifying weapon—but not about the evasive tactics pilots used to avoid the missiles.
> 
> “I guess the SAM sounds better but I think it is a moot point,” said a pilot who served with McCain.
> 
> Most surprising were the political benefits that accrued from his ejection injuries. The TV shots of a hospitalized McCain, or a McCain hobbling around on crutches, became associated in the public mind with the American hero who had been severely tortured. The public assumed that was the reason he was in such bad shape.
> 
> On the day they were both shot down, Chuck Rice was as shocked and as scared as John McCain. His plane was damaged in the same way and at the same time. Yet Rice had figured out under tremendous pressure how to eject without getting himself killed or injured. Just as most other pilots had figured it out when they were shot down. It left a question: Why wasn’t LCDR John S. McCain, 31, able to put himself in the proper position to eject like LTJG Charles D. Rice, 24, who had much less flying experience?





> “When I came to the second time, I was being hauled ashore on two bamboo poles by a group of twenty angry Vietnamese,” he wrote.
> 
> Actually, as the Vietnam Government and an American veteran living in Hanoi confirmed years later, Mai Van On, 49, a Hanoi resident, ran from the safety of his bomb shelter and with the help of a neighbor tossed two bamboo poles in the water and swam out to rescue McCain. Mai Van On and his friends floated McCain to shore, where they were confronted by an angry mob which wanted to kill the American. One Vietnamese smashed McCain’s shoulder with a rifle butt and another stabbed him in the foot and abdominal area with a bayonet before Mai Van On and his friends could drive them away.
> 
> In all probability, McCain’s life was saved by his Vietnamese rescuers, although this was a point apparently not convenient to his later political biography.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I agree with Mr. Trump stopping his rants, but, McCain ran for his party. Sometimes you do that in party politics. I think he knew he was toast but put up the brave front. I'm not so sure Trump would have done the same if in that same situation.


McCain was leading for part of the campaign, and lost by a fraction of the percentage of the vote. He refused to go after his opponent who repeatedly bludgeoned him. He ran as if though he was capitulating already, announcing that he was pulling out of state after state that he declared lost far too early. He ran among the worst Republican campaigns in my recollection.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump campaign implodes after McCain war hero insult | New York Post

And the NY Post, a conservative paper, has supported Trump's undertakings in the past.


----------



## Macfury

I don't see any sign of Trump's campaign imploding.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump campaign implodes after McCain war hero insult | New York Post
> 
> And the NY Post, a conservative paper, has supported Trump's undertakings in the past.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't see any sign of Trump's campaign imploding.


Well, finally other Republicans are coming out with direct statement against his views. I foresee him running as a third-party candidate, since the establishment Republicans will join forces and go with a more traditional Republican candidate. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, the rank and file party members will choose the candidate, not Trump's opponents.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, finally other Republicans are coming out with direct statement against his views. I foresee him running as a third-party candidate, since the establishment Republicans will join forces and go with a more traditional Republican candidate. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Thankfully, the rank and file party members will choose the candidate, not Trump's opponents.


True, and they will select a more traditional Republican .......... thus setting off a chain reaction resulting with Trump running as a third party candidate. So, if he does as well as Ralph Nader did back in 2000, and I think that Trump would get far more than the 2.7% of the vote that Nader received, Trump will help the Democratic candidate win .......... just as Nader helped Bush win. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't see any sign of Trump's campaign imploding.


We will have to wait and see. But, all he needs to do is carry leads in 5 states and he could pose a problem for the Republicans. If he gets a point lead, then watch the rhetoric rise. And in debates, anything can happen. This next two months are important to Mr. Trump as it will determine where he sits in the ranks with voters.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't see any sign of Trump's campaign imploding.


You know, looking at his media coverage, I am wondering if he is getting a pass on his campaign. Not sure if the media wants the "quotes" or if they like him.

He certainly isn't getting the background review other candidates have and are receiving...... Interesting don't you think?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You know, looking at his media coverage, I am wondering if he is getting a pass on his campaign. Not sure if the media wants the "quotes" or if they like him.
> 
> He certainly isn't getting the background review other candidates have and are receiving...... Interesting don't you think?


The media's prime concern is getting a Democrat elected. If they are giving Trump a pass, it's only because they want to bring in the big guns later. I'm sure you're aware that there's a list that "progressive" editors use to shape the news in coordinated fashion.


----------



## Dr.G.

Where is Rand Paul? - CNNPolitics.com

A very smart move on Rand Paul's part.


----------



## eMacMan

Rand Paul is doing something that no other Republirat or Demiblob is doing. Standing up for Americans abroad.

He is one of the plaintiffs in the American Constitutional challenge to FATCA. His claim is that his rights as a US Senator were usurped because the FATCA-IGAs are treaties which never came before the Senate for ratification.

I don't see this winning him an election or even a nomination. Could it be he is just doing something because he believes it is the right thing to do???

More here:
The Isaac Brock Society | Finally the Bopp Suit has Arrived!
Sorry I can't pull a quote as it is in jpg format.

If you have the slightest American taint please contribute to the Canadian Challenge here:
ADCS | Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty


----------



## Dr.G.

Jade Helm will prove these people correct as the first wave of "political detainees" are rounded up. Just one more skeleton to come out of the closet and prove that Pres. Obama plans to run for a third term as president. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Obama has already invaded every state with the crude octopus of Washington-dominated politics.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama has already invaded every state with the crude octopus of Washington-dominated politics.


To arms ............ to arms .................. "One if by land, two if by sea" ................ call out the Sons of Liberty to save us all. To arms ............... to arms ..............


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump releases phone number of U.S. senator who called him a 'jackass' - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News

Wow ........... be careful not to call Donald Trump a "jackass". 

Lindsey Graham has effectively been 'doxxed' by rival 2016 presidential candidate

"Essentially, Graham has been doxxed — a term that refers to the act of publishing someone's personal information online against their wishes, most often used in the context of internet trolls."

It also means being set upon by a pack of angry dachshunds (aka, doxies).


----------



## Macfury

Lindsey Graham should drop out of the race today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Lindsey Graham should drop out of the race today.


Why?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Why?


Because he's a mealy-mouthed, lukewarm plastic politician who offers neither worthwhile leadership nor solid ideas.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Because he's a mealy-mouthed, lukewarm plastic politician who offers neither worthwhile leadership nor solid ideas.


That "credential" would wipe out most of the declared Republicans to date.


----------



## eMacMan

> Because he's a mealy-mouthed, lukewarm plastic politician who offers neither worthwhile leadership nor solid ideas.





Dr.G. said:


> That "credential" would wipe out most of the declared Republicans to date.


Would certainly wipe the slate clean regardless of affiliation.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> That "credential" would wipe out most of the declared Republicans to date.


Yes, most of them. Thankfully, the Democrat primary only has a few candidates to keep track of them--all of them plastic, except the sexist socialist wingnut.


----------



## Rps

i don't think we've seen the nominee for the GOP out there yet, same for the Dems .... Just sayin'


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> i don't think we've seen the nominee for the GOP out there yet, same for the Dems .... Just sayin'


Rest assured whomever it is will be as crappy or crappier than the current offerings.

Since they are all puppets would it be asking to much for their noses to grow with each lie?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I would sooner vote for Trump than McCain.


I suggest you spoil your ballot. Neither are anywhere close to being "a choice".

Besides, you'd put this guy in the White House?










(Yeah, he really said that - and his spokesperson immediately afterward issued a statement to make sure people knew that he was joking)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Besides, you'd put this guy in the White House?


Yep. The current administration is far trashier than Trump could ever be.


----------



## Rps

For those who need some help with the political "isms"

DEMOCRATIC 

You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
You feel guilty for being successful.
Barbara Streisand sings for you.

REPUBLICANISM

You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
So?

SOCIALIST 

You have two cows.
The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.
You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

COMMUNIST 

You have two cows.
The government seizes both and provides you with milk.
You wait in line for hours to get it.
It is expensive and sour.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE

You have two cows.
You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE

You have two cows.
Under the new farm program the government pays you to shoot one, milk the other, and then pours the milk down the drain.

AMERICAN CORPORATION 

You have two cows.
You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one.
You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when one cow drops dead. You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses.
Your stock goes up.

FRENCH CORPORATION

You have two cows.
You go on strike because you want three cows.
You go to lunch and drink wine.
Life is good.

JAPANESE CORPORATION 

You have two cows.
You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.
They learn to travel on unbelievably crowded trains.
Most are at the top of their class at cow school.

GERMAN CORPORATION

You have two cows.
You engineer them so they are all blond, drink lots of beer, give excellent quality milk, and run a hundred miles an hour.
Unfortunately they also demand 13 weeks of vacation per year.

ITALIAN CORPORATION

You have two cows but you don't know where they are.
While ambling around, you see a beautiful woman.
You break for lunch.
Life is good.

RUSSIAN CORPORATION 

You have two cows.
You have some vodka.
You count them and learn you have five cows.
You have some more vodka.
You count them again and learn you have 42 cows.
The Mafia shows up and takes over however many cows you really have. 

TALIBAN CORPORATION 

You have all the cows in Afghanistan , which are two.
You don't milk them because you cannot touch any creature' s private parts.
You get a $40 million grant from the US government to find alternatives to milk production but use the money to buy weapons.

IRAQI CORPORATION 

You have two cows.
They go into hiding.
They send radio tapes of their mooing. 

POLISH CORPORATION 

You have two bulls.
Employees are regularly maimed and killed attempting to milk them. 

BELGIAN CORPORATION 

You have one cow.
The cow is schizophrenic.
Sometimes the cow thinks he's French, other times he's Flemish.
The Flemish cow won't share with the French cow.
The French cow wants control of the Flemish cow's milk.
The cow asks permission to be cut in half.
The cow dies happy.

FLORIDA CORPORATION 

You have a black cow and a brown cow.
Everyone votes for the best looking one.
Some of the people who actually like the brown one best accidentally vote for the black one.
Some people vote for both.
Some people vote for neither.
Some people can't figure out how to vote at all.
Finally, a bunch of guys from out-of-state tell you which one you think is the best-looking cow.

CALIFORNIA CORPORATION 

You have millions of cows.
They make real California cheese.
Only five speak English.
Most are illegals.
Arnold likes the ones with the big udders


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

What’s Happening In States That Are Paying Attention Is Reassuring



> This poll is a simple approval/disapproval comparison. Of course, it reflects the fact that politicians in general are not held in high esteem. And Bernie Sanders scores well, especially in New Hampshire, which is not surprising for this stage of the campaign. Still, the findings are encouraging.


----------



## Rps

FeXL, I think what is telling is that Hilary is bleeding trust. You can vote for almost anyone but if you feel you don't trust them, that person will never win. I think this is her down fall. Who will win for the Dems and GOPs will be the one who people feel they trust. Should be interesting to watch.


----------



## FeXL

I can't believe it's taken this long for her true colours to be seen. There is a common thread running throughout the whole fabric of her career, dating back to the 70's in Arkansas. 

I read about her ratings & the apt phrase, "Low Information Voter" springs to mind.

Unbelievable...


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> FeXL, I think what is telling is that Hilary is bleeding trust. You can vote for almost anyone but if you feel you don't trust them, that person will never win. I think this is her down fall. Who will win for the Dems and GOPs will be the one who people feel they trust. Should be interesting to watch.


As I've said, 80 per cent of Dems would vote for a turd if it had a letter D beside its name. Hillary will get their vote regardless.


----------



## FeXL

Can anybody say, "Treason"?

U.S. intel fears hundreds of secrets leaked in Hillary’s private emails



> The U.S. intelligence community is bracing for the possibility that former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton’s private email account contains hundreds of revelations of classified information from spy agencies and is taking steps to contain any damage to national security, according to documents and interviews Thursday.
> 
> The top lawmakers on the House and Senate intelligence committee have been notified in recent days that *the extent of classified information on Mrs. Clinton’s private email server was likely far more extensive than the four emails publicly acknowledged last week as containing some sensitive spy agency secrets.*


M'bold.

Gee, ya _think?_


----------



## FeXL

Even better. (_very_ surprised this is on CNN...)

Hillary Clinton pushes renewable energy with focus on solar



> Hillary Clinton pledged Sunday that as president *she would put the United States on a path toward generating enough renewable energy to power every home in the country by 2027* - ten years after she would hypothetically take office.


Stunning...


----------



## Dr.G.

Perry out, Kasich in: Fox News announces the participants in Thursday night’s debate - The Washington Post

The list is out. I think that the debate would have been more interesting had Santorum and Perry been part of the "adults table" rather than a spot at the "kiddie table". Such is Life.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot...

More than two-thirds of Obamacare enrollees unsatisfied with coverage: survey



> Obamacare has offered insurance to millions of people, *but they’re unhappy with the coverage they’re getting and are particularly upset about the costs*, according to a survey released Monday that suggests the health care law continues to struggle to win over Americans.
> 
> Just 30 percent of customers on Obamacare’s exchanges were satisfied with their coverage, the health care research arm of the Deloitte consulting firm said.


M'bold.

Yeah, there's a surprise...


----------



## Macfury

Maybe this was part of Obama's cost control plan--most of the deductibles are so high, people are no longer going to the hospital for care.



FeXL said:


> Further on the Charlie Foxtrot...
> 
> More than two-thirds of Obamacare enrollees unsatisfied with coverage: survey
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Yeah, there's a surprise...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Maybe this was part of Obama's cost control plan--most of the deductibles are so high, people are no longer going to the hospital for care.


Well, for the hypochondriacs who headed to the hospital for every bump, bruise & band-aid, sure, that's a good way to weed them out.

However, for the people who really need medical attention & can't afford it...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> However, for the people who really need medical attention & can't afford it...


...they are now among the insured and can't afford the deductible!


----------



## heavyall

FeXL said:


> Well, for the hypochondriacs who headed to the hospital for every bump, bruise & band-aid, sure, that's a good way to weed them out.


That's one thing I really wish we could figure out a way to do in our system. People who go to the ER when their medical need is not an emergency (or worse, non-existent) need to be weeded out. We don't let people make nuisance calls to 911 without consequences, this should be no different. Those people are stealing from everyone who's taxes pay for our healthcare.


----------



## Rps

Heavy all, as cruel as this may sound, maybe we should adopt a pay first refund later programme. Our society has gone from a " go to the doctor if you are sick" to a " go to the doctor if you are unwell". There are thorns with this appear to be sure, but we all have sat in emergency rooms, filled to the rafters with awaiting patients who leave because they have no patience.


----------



## Macfury

I have brought patients requiring acute care who have sat behind people who have sniffles. One family came in with an uncle who was simply intoxicated--after hours in a bed he admitted he was drunk.


----------



## eMacMan

Talk about needlessly complicating the lives of American citizens. These are people who have so little income that in the past they often did not have to file 1040 tax forms. Now they finally have something vaguely resembling health care insurance, but for them it is a subsidy that happens via a tax credit and all the red tape that goes with it.

BTW this is why I call BS whenever someone tells me the poorer citizens will not suffer with carbon reduction scams because they will get tax credits to help them out.

Tax filing problems could jeopardize 1.8 million Americans' Obamacare aid - Business Insider



> About 710,000 households that have not filed a 2014 tax return, although they were legally required to account for health insurance tax credits that they received.
> Some 360,000 households that got tax credits and requested an extension to file their returns. They have until Oct. 15.
> About 760,000 households that got tax credits and filed their tax returns omitted a new form that is the key to accounting for the subsidies. Called Form 8962, it was new for this year's tax filing season.
> 
> Read more: Tax filing problems could jeopardize 1.8 million Americans' Obamacare aid - Business Insider
> ​


You can find the form and the 14 pages of instructions here:
Form 8962, Premium Tax Credit (PTC)

By no means is this the most convoluted IRS form check out 8938s or 3520s if you want to see how bad it can really get. OTOH I would suggest that this is capable of causing a major headache by the time an individual claws his way through it. This one form would probably take me about double the time I spent doing my entire Canadian tax filing by hand. Thank God I don't have to deal with it.


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure it's nothing...

FBI investigation of Hillary’s emails is ‘criminal probe’



> The FBI investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton’s unsecured email account is not just a fact-finding venture — it’s a criminal probe, sources told The Post on Wednesday.
> 
> The feds are investigating to what extent Clinton relied on her home server and other private devices to send and store classified documents, according to a federal source with knowledge of the inquiry.
> 
> *“It’s definitely a criminal probe,” said the source. “I’m not sure why they’re not calling it a criminal probe.*


M'bold.

Could this actually be the start of the end? beejacon


----------



## FeXL

From the "If your policy is so poor that even the left is beginning to question it" department.

The President Gets Personal about the Iran Deal



> President Obama, in his desperation to save his Iran deal, has taken to attacking its opponents in personal ways. He has accused critics of his deal of being the same Republican warmongers who drove us into the ground war against Iraq and has warned that they would offer "overheated" and often dishonest arguments. *He has complained about the influence of lobbyists and money on the process of deciding this important issue, as if lobbying and money were not involved in other important matters before Congress.*


M'bold.

The irony is stunning...

Further:



> The President would be well advised to stop attacking his critics and to start answering their hard questions with specific and credible answers.


Something that will never, ever, happen. Not with this guy...


----------



## Macfury

As Kerry says, unless the US House backs this deal, the Ayatollah will no longer trust America:



> "Now, if you think the ayatollah's gonna come back and negotiate again with an American, that's fantasy. You're never gonna see that because we will have proven we're not trustworthy."





FeXL said:


> From the "If your policy is so poor that even the left is beginning to question it" department.
> 
> The President Gets Personal about the Iran Deal
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> The irony is stunning...
> 
> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> Something that will never, ever, happen. Not with this guy...


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> As Kerry says, unless the US House backs this deal, the Ayatollah will no longer trust America:


I really doubt that any one in their right mind would trust America. Nor do I think the Ayatollah trusts them now. 

For crying out loud the Lakota Sioux are still trying to get the US Government to live up to the terms of the 1868 Treaty of Fort Laramie. The governments record has not improved in the interim.

That said, Iran is no closer to building the bomb than they were 20 years ago. They have signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty and have allowed UN inspectors access to their facilities on numerous occasions. Seems to me if they really intended to build a bomb they would have done so long before now.

OTOH the one nation in the region that does possess nuclear arms (as many as 200), has steadfastly refused to allow international inspections and has also refused to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the US job market.

Report: 100% Of Female Employment Gains Since 2007 Came From Foreigners



> A record-setting 52,209,000 women are currently not in the labor force.
> 
> However, despite this statistic, foreign-born women seem to be doing quite well for themselves, at least compared to U.S.-born women, when it comes to employment gains. In fact, since 2007, all of the employment gains for women came from foreigners.
> 
> According to a report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S- born women saw a loss of 64,000 jobs since the recession hit in late 2007. *During this period of time, foreign-born women experienced the opposite, gaining nearly 1 million jobs in the United States.*


----------



## eMacMan

*Animas Spill!*

For those of you that did not see this in the news.

The Latest: EPA chief visits New Mexico to see spill fallout - seattlepi.com

Please note the photo is Colorado Governer Hickenhooper (really), not EPA head Gina McCarthy.

This letter originally printed in the Silverton Standard, several days before the disaster is quite illuminating. I actually asked a geologist many moons ago why they did not just block off old mine portals that were contaminating waterways. His answer mirrored the prediction made by the geologist in the letter. 

EPA's Gold King Mine Spill Was Predicted 6 Days In Advance - GOVERNMENT SLAVES


The link above is more easily read but I also went straight to the source and saw that they did publish that letter. This is a weekly paper so the letter was written more than 6 days prior. 
Yes, that letter to the editor about the EPA was published « » Local News


> Yes, that letter to the editor about the EPA was published
> From Silverton Standard, the place where you can write!
> Posted on August 12 2015, 1:17pm by Mark Esper in Local News category
> 
> 
> Yes this letter was published in the July 30, 2015 edition of the Silverton Standard.
> 
> -Mark Esper, editor and publisher.


So the big question is: Was it simply incompetence combined with Harper style arrogance that led to this mess or was it as the Geologist stated in advance, deliberately planned?????


----------



## Dr.G.

After 54 years, U.S. embassy reopens in Cuba - CNN.com

Should be an interesting event today.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> After 54 years, U.S. embassy reopens in Cuba - CNN.com
> 
> Should be an interesting event today.


The end of Cuba as we know it.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The end of Cuba as we know it.


Ain't that the truth. I wish them the best, but once you let the gringos in the door.... :yikes:


----------



## SINC

If nothing else, their supply of parts for all those old American cars should improve.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> If nothing else, their supply of parts for all those old American cars should improve.


It will soon be cheaper to dump those cool cars in favour of imported used Toyotas.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> If nothing else, their supply of parts for all those old American cars should improve.


I fear the opposite - that the regulations will change, and allow Cubans to export their cars to the US restoration market. Then Havana will be like any other city in Latin America: full of VW Gols and Polos, and Nissan Tsurus taxis....


----------



## SINC

Marines who removed flag from U.S. embassy in Cuba return 54 years later to raise it again | Fox News Latino


----------



## Rps

Anyone think the time is right for Al Gore and Mitt Romney to start their engines ...... I do.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Anyone think the time is right for Al Gore and Mitt Romney to start their engines ...... I do.


Yep... and head straight out to sea. Hopefully they will run out of fuel in an uninhabited area.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Yep... and head straight out to sea. Hopefully they will run out of fuel in an uninhabited area.


From my point of view Jeb Bush would be the best candidate for the GOP, but.......a Trump in the hand is not worth what would be 3 in the bush. Romney would be a middle choice and not a Bush. As for the Dems, I don't see their person yet. I still think Hilary is done......Gore, however, might have some steam compared to the current Dem runners.


----------



## Macfury

Jeb Bush would be a guaranteed loser. Another John McCain sent to dispirit conservative voters.



Rps said:


> From my point of view Jeb Bush would be the best candidate for the GOP, but.......a Trump in the hand is not worth what would be 3 in the bush. Romney would be a middle choice and not a Bush. As for the Dems, I don't see their person yet. I still think Hilary is done......Gore, however, might have some steam compared to the current Dem runners.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Jeb Bush would be a guaranteed loser. Another John McCain sent to dispirit conservative voters.


The issue with the GOP is that it is not what we would call a Conservative party. Bush would represent what we would call Progressive Conservatives. The GOP, who once pandered to the Tea Party, cannot escape their"ultra" past. Really I don't think the GOP knows what it wants to be other than elected.

From a strategic point of view, they have to start weeding out runners and begin the "brand" themselves.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Really I don't think the GOP knows what it wants to be other than elected.


*Exactly.*


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The issue with the GOP is that it is not what we would call a Conservative party. Bush would represent what we would call Progressive Conservatives. The GOP, who once pandered to the Tea Party, cannot escape their"ultra" past. Really I don't think the GOP knows what it wants to be other than elected.
> 
> From a strategic point of view, they have to start weeding out runners and begin the "brand" themselves.


The GOP establishment is a bunch of fat cats who would gladly lose the presidency as long as they got to run the big money out of the Senate finance committees--it never pandered to the T.E.A. Party, instead lying to them about things the party as a whole had no intention of doing. The Republicans are a party teetering back to conservatism and Jeb Bush is the wrong man to head it up.

By the way, what do you think the Democrat brand is? I would hazard: reckless spending, incompetent foreign policy and crony capitalism.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yep... and head straight out to sea. Hopefully they will run out of fuel in an uninhabited area.


The Caymen Islands?????


----------



## eMacMan

*Harper is a distant second to USA in Hypocrisy efforts*

The Isaac Brock Society | The U.S. doesn’t want other nations doing on U.S. turf what it does on theirs through F.A.T.C.A/C.B.T.



> It seems that the U.S. government finds the idea of Chinese covert agents working in the U.S. to find Chinese nationals who are wanted back home to be a violation of U.S. sovereignty. The author of the article says that Washington doesn’t like the intimidation tactics that are being used. Now I wonder what the U.S. thinks about the intimidations tactics of F.A.T.C.A./C.B.T. which consist of 30% withholding penalty, forced closing of or the refusal to open local bank accounts if one refuses to answer whether or not you are a U.S. person, the Reed Amendment which bars tax evaders from entering the U.S., the intimidating 2350.00 renunciation fee, 5 years of IRS tax compliance in order to renounce, etc. Aren’t all of these intimidation tactics? I guess though that when your problems are self inflicted that it is okay. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/17/u...ing-in-us.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
> Let’s see how many find this comment by the Chinese to be familiar:‘Steve Tsang, a senior fellow at the University of Nottingham’s China Policy Institute, said the clandestine deployment of security agents in pursuit of Chinese abroad has a long pedigree under the Communist Party, which sees itself as wielding dominion over all Chinese people regardless of what passport they may hold. “The party believes if you’re of Chinese ancestry then you’re Chinese anyway, and if you don’t behave like one you’re a traitor,” he said’​The U.S. has done the Chinese one better by forcefully conscripting the local financial institutions of foreign nations as I.R.S. agents.


----------



## FeXL

A credible solution to the Charlie Foxtrot.

Scott Walker Takes Dead Aim at Obamacare



> Walker’s alternative to Obamacare is well-conceived across the board. It would lower costs, secure liberty, and make it possible for anyone who wants health insurance to be able to get it. It would repeal Obamacare’s unprecedented individual mandate, its employer mandate, its coverage requirements, its abortion funding, its centralization and consolidation of power and money in Washington. In fact, it would repeal every last word of President Obama’s signature legislation.


Further:



> In its place, it would offer real reform. It would encourage people to shop for value and ask to see prices. It would promote the use of Health Savings Accounts and reduce the role of the insurer or government as middleman. It would preserve the employer-based market and revitalize an individual market that the federal government had broken even before the Democrats passed Obamacare and made everything so much worse. *In so doing, it will help pave the way to full repeal.*


M'bold.

Nice.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read.

Huma Abedin: The Security Breach Hillary Is Still Hiding



> _Editor's note: Hillary Clinton is finally being investigated for her email server scandal and potential security breaches of sensitive information that may have occurred during her tenure as Secretary of State. During this investigation, will authorities finally look into the security threat at the Clinton State Department that involved Clinton's longtime confidant and senior aide, Huma Abedin? The question remains: How was an individual with such extensive ties to the Muslim Brotherhood allowed high-level access to the State Department? To understand the extreme menace to national security posed by the Abedin-Clinton partnership, read the in-depth DiscoverTheNetworks profile of Hillary's right-hand woman below. _


I wasn't aware of her connections to the Muslim Brotherhood.


----------



## FeXL

Sonuvagun. They _do_ exist...

18,000 Clinton Emails Magically Recovered By The State Department



> State Department officials have uncovered 17,855 emails sent between a former Hillary Clinton spokesman and reporters that the agency long claimed did not exist.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Interesting read.
> 
> Huma Abedin: The Security Breach Hillary Is Still Hiding
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware of her connections to the Muslim Brotherhood.


Rest assured the Israelis still own Hillary lock, stock and barrel!


----------



## Dr.G.

Kasich says if he were 'King of America' he'd ban teacher's lounges - CNNPolitics.com

Man, is he out of touch with what happens in a teacher's lounge. I have done week-long "brown bag" workshops for teachers, during their lunch hour, in the teacher's lounge. This way, no need to close the entire school for a PD day, or to bring in a sub. I come in for about 1/2 an hour for five days and meet with small groups of teachers around a table in the lounge. Of course, this was in Canada. In the US ............. well, I dare say that there is less respect for the average teacher there than there is here in Canada ............. and respect here is not all that good in various places throughout our great country.

Better that they ban "...the small number of pot-stirrers in their ranks who try to leverage problems for political gain." Keep the lounges and get rid of the "pot-stirrers."


----------



## Macfury

I just remember it as the place where teachers smoked. 

Kasich has already been Governor of Ohio, so he should have done it then. Take apart the U.S. Department of Education instead and leave the lounges.

In fairness to teachers, few of them are probably commies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I just remember it as the place where teachers smoked.
> 
> Kasich has already been Governor of Ohio, so he should have done it then. Take apart the U.S. Department of Education instead and leave the lounges.


Well, those smoking days are long over, Macfury. You want to take apart the US Dept. of Education. What sort of libertarian wants to break up a big bureaucratic organization and make smaller organizations which will just grow to be bigger organizations in total than the original organization that was broken up???? Rember when they broke up HEW????? Look what replaced it?

When did you start to believe in bigger government??????????? As I said, you are a closet New Dealer underneath that exterior of being for the individual to set his/her own course. Who would have guessed it????????????


----------



## Macfury

Only a fool would replace it with anything else.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, those smoking days are long over, Macfury. You want to take apart the US Dept. of Education. What sort of libertarian wants to break up a big bureaucratic organization and make smaller organizations which will just grow to be bigger organizations in total than the original organization that was broken up???? Rember when they broke up HEW????? Look what replaced it?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Only a fool would replace it with anything else.


That's one administration bureaucracy down ................ a la Rick Perry, what other two would you want to see "taken apart"?


----------



## FeXL

Good explanation.

Unexpectedly, Stocks Continue to Fall



> Oh, and China's been crashing for a while. Oh, and much of Europe has already slid into 0% growth or minimal growth. Oh, and the weak US growth seems mainly due to the Fed's many-year run of 0% interest rates, artificially priming the pump with lots of freshly minted dollars.
> 
> And yet today's fall is a "shock." To the Obama loving media, and to the Obama donating donor class, maybe.
> 
> Not really a shock to everyone else.


Nope...


----------



## FeXL

Defining "natural born citizen" & who is eligible to be POTUS.

Fundamental Concepts - On Noses And Faces



> Jumping from the 9th century to 2015, we here on AoS find ourselves hosting posters who frequently comments in political threads where Ted Cruz is mentioned that Ted isn't eligible to be president because he's Canadian. Their argument is as follows: The Constitution requires that the president and vice president be "natural born citizens" the United States. The intent of this requirement was to prevent someone with foreign loyalties from becoming the leader of the US, a common sense concern for a group of people that were shifting their own loyalties to a new nation. Although the term is never defined in the Constitution, it was generally understood at the time to mean someone born in America to parents who were American citizens. The Federalist Papers (Hamilton in Federalist 68 IIRC, I don't have my annotated copy handy) back this interpretation up.


Informative read.


----------



## eMacMan

I can tell you that most Canadians who had the misfortune to be born in the US would happily see their American citizenship revoked. Thanks to the FATCA-FuBAR attack American citizenship is now the most toxic citizenship on the planet. Also the most difficult to shed.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Sonuvagun. They _do_ exist...
> 
> 18,000 Clinton Emails Magically Recovered By The State Department



_Funny how certain people practice selective outrage...._

*FLASHBACK: When Millions Of Lost Bush White House Emails (From Private Accounts) Triggered A Media Shrug*

Even for a Republican White House that was badly stumbling through George W. Bush's sixth year in office, the revelation on April 12, 2007 was shocking. Responding to congressional demands for emails in connection with its investigation into the partisan firing of eight U.S. attorneys, the White House announced that as many as five million emails, covering a two-year span, had been lost.

The emails had been run through private accounts controlled by the Republican National Committee and were only supposed to be used for dealing with non-administration political campaign work to avoid violating ethics laws. Yet congressional investigators already had evidence private emails had been used for government business, including to discuss the firing of one of the U.S. attorneys. The RNC accounts were used by 22 White House staffers, including then-Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, who reportedly used his RNC email for 95 percent of his communications.

As the Washington Post reported, "Under federal law, the White House is required to maintain records, including e-mails, involving presidential decision- making and deliberations." But suddenly millions of the private RNC emails had gone missing; emails that were seen as potentially crucial evidence by Congressional investigators.

The White House email story broke on a Wednesday. Yet on that Sunday's Meet The Press, Face The Nation, and Fox News Sunday, the topic of millions of missing White House emails did not come up. At all. (The story did get covered on ABC's This Week.)

By comparison, not only did every network Sunday news show this week cover the story about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton emails, but they were drowning in commentary. Between Meet the Press, Face The Nation, This Week, and Fox News Sunday, Clinton's "email" or "emails" were referenced more than 100 times on the programs, according to Nexis transcripts. Talk about saturation coverage.​
(MediaMatters)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Funny how certain people practice selective outrage...._


Might it be... oh... I don't know... that Hillary Clinton is currently attempting to present her qualifications for office?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Might it be... oh... I don't know... that Hillary Clinton is currently attempting to present her qualifications for office?


I think it's plainly clear that Clinton is as qualified as any of the other Democrat or Republican 1%ers to lead the U.S. empire to further heights of international ruin...

But that's not the point, and you know it.


----------



## FeXL

Pot, meet kettle.

Your posts are hardly noteworthy for their objectivity...



CubaMark said:


> _Funny how certain people practice selective outrage...._


----------



## Macfury

It is the point. The magnifying glass is on all candidates at this point.



CubaMark said:


> I think it's plainly clear that Clinton is as qualified as any of the other Democrat or Republican 1%ers to lead the U.S. empire to further heights of international ruin...
> 
> But that's not the point, and you know it.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, wah. Poor Shrillary. It's about bloody time she got some attention from the MSM. She's been skating on her other issues for years, not limited to but including, Benghazi...



CubaMark said:


> By comparison, not only did every network Sunday news show this week cover the story about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton emails, but they were drowning in commentary. Between Meet the Press, Face The Nation, This Week, and Fox News Sunday, Clinton's "email" or "emails" were referenced more than 100 times on the programs, according to Nexis transcripts. Talk about saturation coverage.​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Oh, wah. Poor Shrillary. It's about bloody time she got some attention from the MSM. She's been skating on her other issues for years, not limited to but including, Benghazi...


As if Hillary should be excused the same kind of scrutiny this received when other ne'er-do-wells erased other messages.

Perhaps CM himself never realized that the previous incident occurred until today!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Perhaps CM himself never realized that the previous incident occurred until today!


Considering the paucity of coverage the MSM provides of anything the left does wrong, highly likely.


----------



## FeXL

Like, say, for instance, this:

Collusion exposed between Governors, White House, and Tom Steyer’s climate advocacy groups



> In what is possibly the most intriguing element, seemingly out of an episode of “House of Cards”, Democratic governors’ aides repeatedly reference a plan of “creative engagement” to “compel” certain electric utilities — those subject to their jurisdiction whose businesses cross lines into states led by Republicans — to bring “red state” governors around to support the EPA rules: “*ecause there are key utilities whose service territories cross red and blue states Governors in these states could quietly engineer a breakthrough strategy that compels utilities in key red states to lead the charge to win over a key Governor, rather than rely on a standard NGO-shaming strategy that might not deliver.”*


----------



## CubaMark

war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war,war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, *Declassified CIA documents reveal how disastrous America's post-9/11 plans really were* war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war,war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war,war.....


----------



## Macfury

dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull  For all of these supposedly leaked documents, this dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull is one of the most pedestrian of the analyses of the dull, dull, dull
dull, dull, dull, dull wars that I have seen. To quote the late Clara Peller: dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull Where's the beef? Where's the big reveal? dull, dull, dull, dull, dull
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, 
dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull,dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull......


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeju2SG7UMA

Donald Trump for President .............. Sarah Palin as his VP running mate. What a ticket that would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeju2SG7UMA
> 
> Donald Trump for President .............. Sarah Palin as his VP running mate. What a ticket that would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes, and it would certainly remedy one of their biggest problems, which is the housing shortage..............................everyone would leave the country.


----------



## Macfury

Donald Trump and Ben Carson, Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio would be good.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Donald Trump and Ben Carson, Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio would be good.


Donald Trump and Ben Carson = an anti-Republican establishment ticket. Neither is a Washington politician.


----------



## Macfury

Yes--it would be great! The establishment of both parties has lost the trust of the electorate. That's why Sanders has been so successful.



Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump and Ben Carson = an anti-Republican establishment ticket. Neither is a Washington politician.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes--it would be great! The establishment of both parties has lost the trust of the electorate. That's why Sanders has been so successful.


Well, the only problem might be that Donald Trump is now asking to see Hillary Clinton's Juris Doctor degree from Yale, which she received in 1973 ................ and he wants to see Sarah Palin's high school diploma.


----------



## Macfury

I don't understand why this follows from Trump-Carson.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, the only problem might be that Donald Trump is now asking to see Hillary Clinton's Juris Doctor degree from Yale, which she received in 1973 ................ and he wants to see Sarah Palin's high school diploma.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't understand why this follows from Trump-Carson.


Carson graduated from Yale University, where he majored in psychology. He received his M.D. from the University of Michigan Medical School. Trump has no problem with his credentials ................ only those of Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. 

Trump/Carson would be a far stronger ticket than Trump/Palin.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump says he will announce third-party decision soon - CNNPolitics.com

This would be a disaster for the Republican Party.


----------



## Macfury

I still don't understand. Palin was a university graduate.



Dr.G. said:


> Carson graduated from Yale University, where he majored in psychology. He received his M.D. from the University of Michigan Medical School. Trump has no problem with his credentials ................ only those of Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin.
> 
> Trump/Carson would be a far stronger ticket than Trump/Palin.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump says he will announce third-party decision soon - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This would be a disaster for the Republican Party.


It's an open secret that he has already agreed not to go third party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I still don't understand. Palin was a university graduate.


Well, Pres. Obama was born in Hawaii, and Trump still wanted to see his birth certificate. Trump cannot believe that Sarah Palin went to high school Go figure.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's an open secret that he has already agreed not to go third party.


Not according to Donald Trump. It is still an option if the Republican Party does not treat him "fairly".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's an open secret that he has already agreed not to go third party.


Trump says he’ll decide ‘very soon’ on whether to rule out independent bid - The Washington Post

We shall see how the establishment Republicans feel about his being the possible candidate for the Republican Party if his lead in the polls turns into actual delegates to the convention.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Trump says he will announce third-party decision soon - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This would be a disaster for the Republican Party.


If Trump goes it alone, it would be good for the GOP I think. We are along way off from the actual nomination voting rounds. We will see how Trump does after the first caucas.
As for Ms. Clinton, she is losing steam, not sure if she can sustain her "lead". That is why Biden is considering running. I think Biden and Sanders are too old. Not sure how Sanders would do in heavy delegate states such as New York, Florida, Texas and Califirnia compared to Clinton....Biden is a maybe.

The issue with Trump is that his aura is actually more developed than the real person. He is shallow and self-serving and doesn't share his toys well.....which means who would run with him.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The issue with Trump is that his aura is actually more developed than the real person. He is shallow and self-serving and doesn't share his toys well......


Doesn't this describe Barack Obama?



Rps said:


> ..which means who would run with him.


Cruz, Carson, Rubio Fiorina and possibly Walker. Although as we have seen, you don't need to pick a running mate from others seeking the nomination.


----------



## Rps

If I was a betting person I would bet on Fiorina as his running mate.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> If I was a betting person I would bet on Fiorina as his running mate.


As Trump says, "I cherish women."


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Doesn't this describe Barack Obama.


We could argue this, but I don't think of Mr. Obama as shallow, nor self serving.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> We could argue this, but I don't think of Mr. Obama as shallow, nor self serving.


We really COULD argue it. You're not seeing it because you either like him or some of his policies. There's a reason why he's been dubbed the "narcissist-in-chief."


----------



## Dr.G.

"If Trump goes it alone, it would be good for the GOP I think. " Rp. think of Taft and George H.W. Bush ........... Teddy Roosevelt actually got more votes than Taft, the sitting Republican president ................. Bush senior had Ross Perot on his right, who polled nearly 19% of the vote, much of which would have gone to Bush.

Thus, the existence of a third party has not been kind to the Republicans.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "If Trump goes it alone, it would be good for the GOP I think. " Rp. think of Taft and George H.W. Bush ........... Teddy Roosevelt actually got more votes than Taft, the sitting Republican president ................. Bush senior had Ross Perot on his right, who polled nearly 19% of the vote, much of which would have gone to Bush.
> 
> Thus, the existence of a third party has not been kind to the Republicans.


I think John Anderson helped Reagan.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think John Anderson helped Reagan.


I would agree with you here, Macfury.


----------



## Dr.G.

Scott Walker: U.S.-Canada wall a 'legitimate' idea - CNNPolitics.com

Someone needs to show Walker a map of the US and Canadian border ........... all 5500+ miles of it. Then, there is Newfoundland and Labrador. What does he intend to do with that province .............. the province that provided safe havens for 75% of the US planes diverted away from the US during 9/11?????????


----------



## BigDL

How are those in them Exicted States going to float a fence on the boader in the Great Lakes/Seaway that a good reality check?

I think the real problem, the Republicans are attempting to address, are progressive ideas seeping in from across the boarder. Ideas Articulated Well By Bernie Sanders 

A welcome relief from the rhetoric of the Republican Luna...mainstream thats it...mainstream.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Scott Walker: U.S.-Canada wall a 'legitimate' idea - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Someone needs to show Walker a map of the US and Canadian border ........... all 5500+ miles of it. Then, there is Newfoundland and Labrador. What does he intend to do with that province .............. the province that provided safe havens for 75% of the US planes diverted away from the US during 9/11?????????


I think he meant in a portion of New Hampshire. However, it seems an odd thing to bring up.


----------



## Macfury

BigDL said:


> I think the real problem, the Republicans are attempting to address, are progressive ideas seeping in from across the boarder. Ideas Articulated Well By Bernie Sanders


What do you think of Bernie's stand on gun rights, BigDL?


----------



## BigDL

Macfury said:


> What do you think of Bernie's stand on gun rights, BigDL?


Except for pistol whipping, guns do not hurt people, bullets do the damage. I'm not sure of Mr. Sander's position on bullets. His thought on restricting gun acquisition for back ground checks seems sensible though.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## FeXL

Then, save pride (which fewer & fewer people seem to posses), just exactly _what_ incentive is there to _not_ become a ward of one of these 38 states? It's no wonder the true, undoctored unemployment rate is the US is nearer 20%.

Welfare Is the Highest Paying Entry-Level Job in 38 States



> There are obvious problems with giving people “free” money. We could list the fact that the money is taken from the people who earned it, or that the debt pyramid that funds the “free” money is unsustainable and will end in crisis. We could point out that people drop out of the labor market because the free money makes it possible, thus lowering productivity at the same time that we are increasing obligations. That is a looming economic disaster for the country.


Further:



> *But in my opinion the greatest evil of the system is how it degrades human beings and encourages them to decay into perpetual adult children.*


M'bold.

Yep...


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Oh I wish I wuz in Dixie. Hooray, horray...


----------



## Macfury

If you moved, could you get the kind of government welfare for business that Canada offers? 



skippythebushkangaroo said:


> Oh I wish I wuz in Dixie. Hooray, horray...
> 
> View attachment 59770


----------



## skippythebushkangaroo

Macfury said:


> If you moved, could you get the kind of government welfare for business that Canada offers?



You mean like the military industrial complex?


----------



## Macfury

skippythebushkangaroo said:


> You mean like the military industrial complex?


No, I mean your industry.


----------



## FeXL

Shock Poll: 59% Back Trump On Deportation of Illegals



> The latest IBD/TIPP Poll asked 913 adults coast to coast if they "support or oppose mandatory deportation of illegal immigrants in the U.S." Not surprisingly, 87% of Trump supporters back the proposal.
> 
> What's surprising is that 59% of the overall public does as well. Mandatory deportation gets majority support in all age groups except 18-24, every income group, among both women and men, at every level of educational achievement, and in rural, urban and suburban regions.
> 
> More interesting still is the fact that 64% of independents and 55% of moderates support deportation.


----------



## FeXL

A legacy of achievement...



> Barry keeps adding to his legacy of historic achievements.
> - He can't seem to help himself, and appears unstoppable.
> 
> He promised CHANGE right?
> - Well, again he is delivering on his promise.
> 
> How is THIS for "historic change?"
> - *The Dow just finished its WORST August in almost two decades*


Bold from the link.

The US is Canada's biggest trading partner. Wanna know why we're heading into a recession?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Shock Poll: 59% Back Trump On Deportation of Illegals


I'd like to see a second poll conducted after they deport all those migrants, and are forced to watch their own kids, mow their own lawns, and pick their own damn cotton....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'd like to see a second poll conducted after they deport all those migrants, and are forced to watch their own kids, mow their own lawns, and pick their own damn cotton....


Employment up, wages up.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Employment up, wages up.


Win/win.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Win/win.


It always kills me. The farmers are complaining because they can't find anyone to work their fields... for crap wages. Wahhhhhhhh!'

So pay people living here enough to do the undesirable work instead of importing people who will work for crap wages.


----------



## Macfury

Trump to sign GOP pledge, commit to back party nominee - The Washington Post

Bueno!


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## CubaMark

*One can only shake one's head and say in hushed tones: 'murica.*

*Kim Davis, Kentucky clerk who refused to issue same-sex marriage licences, released from jail*

The Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for refusing to issue marriage licences to gay couples was released Tuesday after five days behind bars, emerging to a tumultuous reception from thousands of cross-waving supporters.

"I just want to give God the glory. His people have rallied, and you are strong," Kim Davis tearfully told the crowd after stepping outside, her arms raised like a victorious boxer, to the blaring Rocky theme song Eye of the Tiger.

She added: "Keep on pressing."





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




​
(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

Glad she was released. She did nothing to be jailed for.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Glad she was released. She did nothing to be jailed for.


It was a little thing called "contempt of court".

Here's one well-known LGBT activist's take on the ridiculousness of the event surrounding her release:

Actor, LGBT activist, and internet celebrity George Takei issued a blistering response to the release of clerk Kim Davis from a Kentucky jail on Tuesday—calling the entire event "a circus." Takei wrote:

_"Well this is a bit of a circus. So let us be clear: This woman is no hero to be celebrated. She broke her oath to uphold the Constitution and defied a court order so she could deny government services to couples who are legally entitled to be married. She is entitled to hold her religious beliefs, but not to impose those beliefs on others. If she had denied marriage certificates to an interracial couple, would people cheer her? Would presidential candidates flock to her side? In our society, we obey civil laws, not religious ones. To suggest otherwise is, simply put, entirely un-American."_​
Davis, an avowed Apostolic Christian from Rowan County, Kentucky, is refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples on religious grounds—flying in the face of the Supreme Court's June decision, which legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. The issue is that she is an elected official, actively denying couples a constitutional right, and in August, she was ordered by a court to issue licenses. After failing to comply with that order, she was found in contempt of court and given jail-time by Judge David L. Bunning last week.

(Attn.com)​


----------



## Macfury

As I said, she did nothing to be jailed for.

And no, calling on Mr. Sulu is not a winning hand.





CubaMark said:


> It was a little thing called "contempt of court".
> 
> Here's one well-known LGBT activist's take on the ridiculousness of the event surrounding her release:
> 
> Actor, LGBT activist, and internet celebrity George Takei issued a blistering response to the release of clerk Kim Davis from a Kentucky jail on Tuesday—calling the entire event "a circus." Takei wrote:
> 
> _"Well this is a bit of a circus. So let us be clear: This woman is no hero to be celebrated. She broke her oath to uphold the Constitution and defied a court order so she could deny government services to couples who are legally entitled to be married. She is entitled to hold her religious beliefs, but not to impose those beliefs on others. If she had denied marriage certificates to an interracial couple, would people cheer her? Would presidential candidates flock to her side? In our society, we obey civil laws, not religious ones. To suggest otherwise is, simply put, entirely un-American."_​
> Davis, an avowed Apostolic Christian from Rowan County, Kentucky, is refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples on religious grounds—flying in the face of the Supreme Court's June decision, which legalized same-sex marriage nationwide. The issue is that she is an elected official, actively denying couples a constitutional right, and in August, she was ordered by a court to issue licenses. After failing to comply with that order, she was found in contempt of court and given jail-time by Judge David L. Bunning last week.
> 
> (Attn.com)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Glad she was released. She did nothing to be jailed for.


Sorry, but you are wrong here. If she refused to carry out the law in her state, and in this case, her country, she can be held in contempt of court. Her religious beliefs cannot dictate how she does her job, same as a gay or lesbian clerk not allowing heterosexual couples from marrying, or a vegan not giving out a fishing license, or a Muslim or Catholic not giving out a marriage license to someone who was legally divorced, or you not giving me some sort of a license because you disagreed with my religion. Even the US Libertarian Party urges some form of "balance" between the "administration of justice" and "the freedom of speech".

Now, if you have disavowed your libertarian beliefs and have gone over to "The Freeman Movement", then we had all better worry, since they do not feel constrained by any law they disagree with regardless of what the Constitution might say.


----------



## CubaMark

Funny how the Constitution is only sacred when it protects the rights of gun owners, eh?


----------



## Macfury

She should have been removed from her position, not jailed.

Do you believe all of the officials who refuse to carry out federal immigration laws by operating sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants as a matter of conscience should be jailed?



Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, but you are wrong here. If she refused to carry out the law in her state, and in this case, her country, she can be held in contempt of court. Her religious beliefs cannot dictate how she does her job, same as a gay or lesbian clerk not allowing heterosexual couples from marrying, or a vegan not giving out a fishing license, or a Muslim or Catholic not giving out a marriage license to someone who was legally divorced, or you not giving me some sort of a license because you disagreed with my religion. Even the US Libertarian Party urges some form of "balance" between the "administration of justice" and "the freedom of speech".
> 
> Now, if you have disavowed your libertarian beliefs and have gone over to "The Freeman Movement", then we had all better worry, since they do not feel constrained by any law they disagree with regardless of what the Constitution might say.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Funny how the Constitution is only sacred when it protects the rights of gun owners, eh?


Man, that's the clumsiest "zinger" of the day.


----------



## Vandave

If somebody fails at their job, you fire them. You don't lock them up in a cage.


----------



## Macfury

Vandave said:


> If somebody fails at their job, you fire them. You don't lock them up in a cage.


"Progressives" often seem to delight in throwing people in the pokey. 

Also note the media coverage in which "progressives" attack the woman's appearance.

All in all a black eye for "progressivism."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> She should have been removed from her position, not jailed.
> 
> Do you believe all of the officials who refuse to carry out federal immigration laws by operating sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants as a matter of conscience should be jailed?


Actually, I agree that she should have been removed from her position rather than jailed. She has now become a martyr for her "cause". Mike Huckabee has said that if she is jailed again, he would try to take her place in prison. Let's see "The Donald" trump that pledge.


----------



## Vandave

Macfury said:


> "Progressives" often seem to delight in throwing people in the pokey.
> 
> Also note the media coverage in which "progressives" attack the woman's appearance.
> 
> All in all a black eye for "progressivism."


My experience in life is that some "Progressives" are quite a nasty bunch. Some of them have serious hate for those who don't share their beliefs. A segment of those people feel that they have social licence to viciously attack people. 

I think the people on the left who are reasonable need to try and keep those types in check. 

Whilst the right wing also has similar elements, I think there are more of these types on the left at this point in history. I think the right wing is kept in check more by religious belief than anything else... they are taught to love their enemy, while the left tends to hate their enemy.


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> If somebody fails at their job, you fire them. You don't lock them up in a cage.


*Sigh. They can't. This has been mentioned in previous articles linked above.*

*Why Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Can't Be Fired for Refusing to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses*

Getting rid of a county clerk isn't easy. *Davis is an elected official, so she would have to be impeached by the state legislature. Not even the governor could fire Davis on his own.*

"The future of the Rowan County Clerk is now in the hands of the courts. The legislature has placed the authority to issue marriage licenses squarely on county clerks by statute, and* I have no legal authority to relieve her *of her statutory duty by executive order or to remove her from office," Governor Steve Beshear explained. 

"The General Assembly will convene in four months and can make any statutory changes it deems necessary at that time. I see no need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers’ money calling a special session of the General Assembly when 117 of 120 county clerks are doing their jobs."

Even if a special session were called, the assembly may not agree to impeach her.​
(Newsweek)


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> Whilst the right wing also has similar elements, I think there are more of these types on the left at this point in history. I think the right wing is kept in check more by religious belief than anything else... they are taught to love their enemy, while the left tends to hate their enemy.


I strongly disagree. I've yet to see a right-wing extremist express any sort of compassion, let alone 'love' for their - did you really just write 'enemy'? :yikes:

Right-wing-nuts are embraced and celebrated (look at the current crop of Republican Presidential candidates). Left-wing-nuts are ostracized even by the hard-left, and they sure as hell don't get national talk radio shows.


----------



## Vandave

I disagree with some of these court rulings and I have always supported gay marriage and gay rights. At present, it seems to me that gay people can still get married if they simply go to another clerk. So why not just do that and let ignorant people be shown for what they are? Throwing them in jail is immoral in my view.

I also disagreed with the recent ruling about that caterer who refused to work at a gay wedding. I think businesses should be allowed to refuse service to whomever they like for whatever reasons they like. Why would you want to support a business that hates you? I'd rather people be open about their ignorance so we can all make informed choices about who we do business with.

I feel the same way about firing people for saying ignorant stuff. The ESPN guy got let go for something something dopey. Why not just give him a time out and let him learn from the experience? Firing people for saying dumb stuff just stops people from saying dumb stuff. How are they going to learn if we shut them up? I think it's better to let it out so we know where people stand. That's one thing I like about Facebook... dummies can't help but post dumb stuff and makes my life easier in figuring people out. I don't have to give the benefit of the doubt as much as I normally would.


----------



## Vandave

CubaMark said:


> I strongly disagree. I've yet to see a right-wing extremist express any sort of compassion, let alone 'love' for their - did you really just write 'enemy'? :yikes:
> 
> Right-wing-nuts are embraced and celebrated (look at the current crop of Republican Presidential candidates). Left-wing-nuts are ostracized even by the hard-left, and they sure as hell don't get national talk radio shows.


That's because you're an extremist. It's blinds you. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

_Sighhhhhhhh._ I know she is an elected official. The method of relieving her of her position is clear. If waiting for the wheels to turn using established procedure to relieve her of her position makes Mr. Sulu angry, so be it. I see _every_ reason to call a special session of the General Assembly because that is the required procedure. If nobody wishes to impeach her, so be it. The procedure is not designed specifically to result in an outcome that will make Mr. Sulu happy.



CubaMark said:


> *Sigh. They can't. This has been mentioned in previous articles linked above.*
> 
> *Why Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Can't Be Fired for Refusing to Issue Same-Sex Marriage Licenses*
> 
> Getting rid of a county clerk isn't easy. *Davis is an elected official, so she would have to be impeached by the state legislature. Not even the governor could fire Davis on his own.*
> 
> "The future of the Rowan County Clerk is now in the hands of the courts. The legislature has placed the authority to issue marriage licenses squarely on county clerks by statute, and* I have no legal authority to relieve her *of her statutory duty by executive order or to remove her from office," Governor Steve Beshear explained.
> 
> "The General Assembly will convene in four months and can make any statutory changes it deems necessary at that time. I see no need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers’ money calling a special session of the General Assembly when 117 of 120 county clerks are doing their jobs."
> 
> Even if a special session were called, the assembly may not agree to impeach her.​
> (Newsweek)


----------



## Macfury

Vandave said:


> I disagree with some of these court rulings and I have always supported gay marriage and gay rights. At present, it seems to me that gay people can still get married if they simply go to another clerk. So why not just do that and let ignorant people be shown for what they are? Throwing them in jail is immoral in my view.
> 
> I also disagreed with the recent ruling about that caterer who refused to work at a gay wedding. I think businesses should be allowed to refuse service to whomever they like for whatever reasons they like. Why would you want to support a business that hates you? I'd rather people be open about their ignorance so we can all make informed choices about who we do business with.
> 
> I feel the same way about firing people for saying ignorant stuff. The ESPN guy got let go for something something dopey. Why not just give him a time out and let him learn from the experience? Firing people for saying dumb stuff just stops people from saying dumb stuff. How are they going to learn if we shut them up? I think it's better to let it out so we know where people stand. That's one thing I like about Facebook... dummies can't help but post dumb stuff and makes my life easier in figuring people out. I don't have to give the benefit of the doubt as much as I normally would.


Bang on. My only concern is that no religious person be forced into performing a religious marriage ceremony, as opposed to the merely legal union provided by the state.



Vandave said:


> That's because you're an extremist. It's blinds you. :lmao:


Bang on again.


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> At present, it seems to me that gay people can still get married if they simply go to another clerk. So why not just do that and let ignorant people be shown for what they are? Throwing them in jail is immoral in my view.


So Rosa Parks should just have gotten on a different bus, is what you're saying.

Your view needs a little cultivating.

As an elected official, she has a duty to uphold the law, not just the ones she agrees with.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> So Rosa Parks should just have gotten on a different bus, is what you're saying.
> 
> Your view needs a little cultivating.
> 
> As an elected official, she has a duty to uphold the law, not just the ones she agrees with.


An excellent analogy, CM. :clap: Paix, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> So Rosa Parks should just have gotten on a different bus, is what you're saying.
> 
> Your view needs a little cultivating.
> 
> As an elected official, she has a duty to uphold the law, not just the ones she agrees with.


This is a terrible analogy. In the case of Rosa Parks, no bus in the city would have offered an easy option. However, if only one bus in the city refused to take her, while others would, then I agree with VanDave--choose another bus and let the wheels of legislation grind on.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> An excellent analogy, CM. :clap: Paix, mi amigo.


So you agree that officials abetting the creation of sanctuary cities in violation of federal law should be jailed, Dr. G?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> So you agree that officials abetting the creation of sanctuary cities in violation of federal law should be jailed, Dr. G?


Still on the deflection and misdirection trip, MF? Your position on the Kim Davis case is unsustainable, so you'll try your luck in another argument... almost Pythonesque, but nowhere near as funny.

Bigots like Davis must be challenged, or the unjustifiably righteous will run roughshod over citizen's rights... which, again, I thought you guys supported!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Still on the deflection and misdirection trip, MF? Your position on the Kim Davis case is unsustainable, so you'll try your luck in another argument... almost Pythonesque, but nowhere near as funny.
> 
> Bigots like Davis must be challenged, or the unjustifiably righteous will run roughshod over citizen's rights... which, again, I thought you guys supported!


I support citizen's rights and I support the rule of law. Kim Davis is being challenged according to the rule of law and although this may be a messy and lengthy process, it must follow its course--no matter how irritated this makes Mr. Sulu.

What about you CM? Jail time for city officials who thumb their noses at immigration law by establishing sanctuary cities?


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> An excellent analogy, CM. :clap: Paix, mi amigo.


It's a horrible analogy. It also happens to be unnecessary because each situation is distinctly unique. 

If anything, being treated like **** from a bureaucrat is a sign of equality.


----------



## Vandave

Macfury said:


> What about you CM? Jail time for city officials who thumb their noses at immigration law by establishing sanctuary cities?


I work a lot with bureaucrats. They ignore laws day in and day out, yet nobody thinks they should be jailed.

By the logic in this thread, I think Mulcair should be tossed in jail. How many NDP policies overstep the role of our Federal government? I think they should investigate him for his proposed Day Care plan.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump Tops 30% in CNN/ORC poll - CNNPolitics.com

I still find this amazing. When DT announced his intention to run for president, I thought it was a joke or a PR stunt.


----------



## Dr.G.

Yikes!!!!!! I actually agree with DT on this point. 

Washington (CNN)—"Republican front-runner Donald Trump said Friday that he wished a Kentucky county clerk, Kim Davis, was not jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, but he added that the Supreme Court has ruled and it is "the law of the land."

"You have to go with it. The decision's been made, and that is the law of the land," the real estate mogul said Friday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "

Donald Trump on Kentucky: Gay marriage 'law of the land' - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

So given this, Dr. G, I will ask you a third time: Jail time for city officials who thumb their noses at immigration law--the law of the land--by establishing sanctuary cities?



Dr.G. said:


> Yikes!!!!!! I actually agree with DT on this point.
> 
> Washington (CNN)—"Republican front-runner Donald Trump said Friday that he wished a Kentucky county clerk, Kim Davis, was not jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, but he added that the Supreme Court has ruled and it is "the law of the land."
> 
> "You have to go with it. The decision's been made, and that is the law of the land," the real estate mogul said Friday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "
> 
> Donald Trump on Kentucky: Gay marriage 'law of the land' - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So given this, Dr. G, I will ask you a third time: Jail time for city officials who thumb their noses at immigration law--the law of the land--by establishing sanctuary cities?


I am not familiar with this situation, Macfury. Exactly where is it taking place in the US?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am not familiar with this situation, Macfury. Exactly where is it taking place in the US?


Certain municipalities are declaring themselves safe zones for illegal immigrants and billing themselves as sanctuary cities. City officials refuse to acknowledge federal laws about illegal immigration and actively encourage illegal immigrants to settle in their cities with the promise that city staff will never report their whereabouts or status to federal immigration authorities.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Certain municipalities are declaring themselves safe zones for illegal immigrants and billing themselves as sanctuary cities. City officials refuse to acknowledge federal laws about illegal immigration and actively encourage illegal immigrants to settle in their cities with the promise that city staff will never report their whereabouts or status to federal immigration authorities.


I must be out of touch with this issue, in that I have not heard of these "sanctuary cities". Where are they located? How did you find out about their existence?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I must be out of touch with this issue, in that I have not heard of these "sanctuary cities". Where are they located? How did you find out about their existence?


It's a huge issue in the US:

What's a 'sanctuary city,' and why should you care? - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So you agree that officials abetting the creation of sanctuary cities in violation of federal law should be jailed, Dr. G?





Macfury said:


> Certain municipalities are declaring themselves safe zones for illegal immigrants and billing themselves as sanctuary cities. City officials refuse to acknowledge federal laws about illegal immigration and actively encourage illegal immigrants to settle in their cities with the promise that city staff will never report their whereabouts or status to federal immigration authorities.


Not an easy question to answer, Macfury. I am still going through all the info on CNN on this issue. I believe in sanctuary under certain circumstances, especially when the person is non-violent and has not committed an act that has brought harm to another person/persons. Still, this seems to be boiling down to the classic state's rights (including municipalities) vs federal law. This complicates the matter on this issue.

So, let me think more upon this issue. Thanks for providing some specific info on this topic. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

That must have hurt. Having to apologize for something you really don't believe you've done wrong...

Clinton Apologizes for Private Email After Saying She Didn’t Need to Apologize



> Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton finally apologized for her use of a private email server while secretary of state in an interview with ABC on Tuesday.
> 
> “That was a mistake,” Clinton said. “I’m sorry about that, I take responsibility, and *I’m trying to be as transparent as I possibly can.*”


M'bold.

So, kinda like trying to peer through a foot of lead, right?


----------



## macintosh doctor

if she is starting to apologize - its gonna be a while till she is done.. this is only the scratching the surface.


----------



## FeXL

Funny, that...


----------



## Macfury

Homeland Secretary Jeh Johnson Blasts Sanctuary Policies - US News



> Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson on Tuesday criticized policies such as the one in San Francisco against generally cooperating with immigration officials, calling the stances counterproductive and unacceptable.
> 
> The city's sanctuary policy has come under scrutiny since the shooting in July of Kate Steinle as she walked with her father and a family friend along the San Francisco waterfront.
> 
> The shooting triggered a national debate over immigration after it was revealed the man charged in the killing, Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez, had been deported five times to his native Mexico and was out on the streets after San Francisco officials disregarded a request from immigrations authorities to keep him locked up.
> 
> Asked whether federal officials could have done more to prevent the release of Lopez-Sanchez, Johnson said the city's sheriff had failed to honor a request to detain him. He said he wants to do away with immigration detention requests, which have been resisted by some local communities, in favor of a notification system that prioritizes immigrants convicted of certain crimes.
> 
> "It is counterproductive to public safety to have this level of resistance to working with our immigration enforcement personnel," he said during a talk at The Commonwealth Club in downtown San Francisco.
> 
> He added, "It is simply in my judgment not acceptable to have no policy of cooperation with immigration enforcement. We're all interested in getting criminals off the streets."
> 
> San Francisco's sanctuary law prohibits city employees from helping federal authorities with immigration investigations or arrests unless required by law or a warrant. It does not prohibit local law enforcement from informing U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement that they've arrested someone in the country illegally for a felony offense or detained a person with prior felony convictions.


Never heard back from Dr. G. or CubaMark on whether San Francisco policy violates the rule of law.


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting article, especially when read today. Keep in mind that Hofstadter made a compelling statement of the consensus model of the American political tradition (the title of, in my opinion, his best book). In this book, he contends that "The fierceness of the political struggles has often been misleading: for the range of vision embraced by the primary contestants in the major parties has always been bounded by the horizons of property and enterprise. However much at odds on specific issues, the major political traditions have shared a belief in the rights of property, the philosophy of economic individualism, the value of competition; they have accepted the economic virtues of capitalist culture as necessary qualities of man." He was neither a Democrat or a Republican, in that he voted for both parties depending upon who was running for the office, and often split his ticked back and forth for the various political parties depending upon the person running for the particular position. The summer that I was going to Columbia to work on my master's degree, I heard him speak a few time. A great historian.

The Paranoid Style in American Politics | Harper's Magazine


----------



## Macfury

Paranoia is a term frequently applied to the other side, when the issue doesn't matter to you at all.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Paranoia is a term frequently applied to the other side, when the issue doesn't matter to you at all.


Well, as Prof. RH contends, both sides have used the paranoia button to their advantage, which is why he was a centrist. From what I have read of his various classic works, he would even have agreed with your libertarian views on certain issues, since they are not extreme.


----------



## Macfury

I'm a nice guy, Dr. G.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm a nice guy, Dr. G.


Agreed. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

As reported on CNN-- "Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker will announce he is dropping out of the Republican presidential race, two GOP sources say." At less than 1% in the polls, this was understandable at this point.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> As reported on CNN-- "Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker will announce he is dropping out of the Republican presidential race, two GOP sources say." At less than 1% in the polls, this was understandable at this point.


It's interesting to see how poorly he fared. He was scoring a statistical ZERO in the last poll. I was hoping Jeb Bush would drop out of the race first.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's interesting to see how poorly he fared. He was scoring a statistical ZERO in the last poll. I was hoping Jeb Bush would drop out of the race first.


WE shall see who is next.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's interesting to see how poorly he fared. He was scoring a statistical ZERO in the last poll. I was hoping Jeb Bush would drop out of the race first.


Well, now it remains to be seen to see who wants to build The Great Wall of Canada. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Well, of course it makes perfect sense...

New Border Controls....for Residents?



> Homeland Security says, to comply with the Real ID Act, starting in 2016 RESIDENTS of New York, Wisconsin, Louisiana, Minnesota, and New Hampshire will need a passport to board an airplane....even for domestic flights.
> 
> *Let's see now. You need a Passport or a 'Real ID' to travel inside the US, but zero ID to vote.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Why only *legal* immigrants should be admitted and only after being screened, double screened & triple screened.

Kerry: US to accept 185,000 refugees by 2017



> *In 2011, two Kentucky residents who had been resettled as Iraqi refugees were accused of being al-Qaeda members.* They were convicted of terrorism charges after their fingerprints were linked to roadside bombs in Iraq. That led to a cumbersome reinvestigation process and new steps to screen refugees, a process that has been criticized as slow and bureaucratic.
> 
> “*Some of the 65,000 that came from Iraq actually were trying to buy stinger missiles in my hometown in Kentucky,*” said US Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, a Republican presidential candidate, in a broadcast interview. “So we do have to be wary of some of the threat that comes from mass migration.”


----------



## FeXL

Ruh-ro...

FBI Said to Recover Personal E-Mails From Hillary Clinton Server



> The FBI has recovered personal and work-related e-mails from the private computer server used by Hillary Clinton during her time as secretary of state, according to a person familiar with the investigation.
> 
> The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s success at salvaging personal e-mails that Clinton said had been deleted raises the possibility that the Democratic presidential candidate’s correspondence eventually could become public. *The disclosure of such e-mails would likely fan the controversy over Clinton’s use of a private e-mail system for official business.*


Ya think?


----------



## Macfury

Fascinating web site that lists the--wait for it--1,000 contenders for the US 2016 presidential election:

2016 Presidential Candidates


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Fascinating web site that lists the--wait for it--1,000 contenders for the US 2016 presidential election:
> 
> 2016 Presidential Candidates


That is quite the list, Macfury!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Watch South Park - Where My Country Gone?

Warning -- Typical South Park offensive language, but it is sort of funny.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Paul called Trump a "clown" and said the attacks on his campaign were similar to the last presidential debate, when the mogul kicked off his first answer with a volley on Paul and a critique of his inclusion in the top-tier debate.

"It kind of reminds me of the funniest moment, I think, of the second debate, where out of nowhere, complete non sequitur, he starts going after me. And I guess it's part of his bravado, his shtick," Paul said. "I'm thinking, how did we get the race for the most important office in the free world to sink to such depths, and how could anyone in my party think that this clown is fit to be president?"

Rand Paul: I'll outlast 'clown' Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com

Good for Sen. Paul. While I don't agree with many of his views, I do agree with this comment.


----------



## Macfury

Paul has flamed out and has done a terrible job campaigning. He's lashing out and blaming others. 



Dr.G. said:


> "Paul called Trump a "clown" and said the attacks on his campaign were similar to the last presidential debate, when the mogul kicked off his first answer with a volley on Paul and a critique of his inclusion in the top-tier debate.
> 
> "It kind of reminds me of the funniest moment, I think, of the second debate, where out of nowhere, complete non sequitur, he starts going after me. And I guess it's part of his bravado, his shtick," Paul said. "I'm thinking, how did we get the race for the most important office in the free world to sink to such depths, and how could anyone in my party think that this clown is fit to be president?"
> 
> Rand Paul: I'll outlast 'clown' Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Good for Sen. Paul. While I don't agree with many of his views, I do agree with this comment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Paul has flamed out and has done a terrible job campaigning. He's lashing out and blaming others.


Too bad. I actually liked him ........... almost as much as I liked his dad. Such is Life. Looks like Rubio is coming up fast on the outside. If I had to bet, I would place my money on him to make it to the convention still in contention. He will probably not win, but he seems ready to take it all the way. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I like him as well. But he is a weak campaigner.



Dr.G. said:


> Too bad. I actually liked him ........... almost as much as I liked his dad. Such is Life. Looks like Rubio is coming up fast on the outside. If I had to bet, I would place my money on him to make it to the convention still in contention. He will probably not win, but he seems ready to take it all the way. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I like him as well. But he is a weak campaigner.


Well, he spoke the truth, as he saw the truth, without going on a personal ego-trip.

We MUST stop agreeing on various issues ................... or people here in ehMacLand will start to talk. DNA tests have shown that SINC is not my twin brother, even though we consider each other brotherly friends.


----------



## FeXL

Brilliant...

Obama Frees 20th 9/11 Hijacker



> *The Obama administration quietly shipped Osama bin Laden's bodyguard back to the Wahhabist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia last week despite warnings that the Muslim terrorist remains a serious threat to the United States.*
> 
> The newly released terrorist detainee is Abdul Shalabi, 39, who trained to be the 20th hijacker for the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Shalabi was set free even though military officials deemed him too dangerous to be unleashed on the world and too valuable as an intelligence asset to be released from U.S. custody.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

<just shaking my head...>

TEACH WOMEN NOT TO RAPE!



> Rutgers Professor Accused Of Raping Disabled, Nonverbal, Diaper-Wearing Black Man Takes The Stand In Her Own Defense.
> 
> _During cross-examination, philosophy professor Anna Stubblefield, 45, insisted she and the victim – a 34-year-old African-American man who is unable to speak or eat on his own – were in a consensual relationship.
> 
> Under questioning from her lawyer Wednesday, Stubblefield explained the man could express himself through a technique known as facilitated communication in which she used her hands to help him type on a keyboard.
> 
> But the prosecution Thursday questioned the method and how the man could communicate if he wanted to stop having sex in her Newark office in 2011.
> 
> *Stubblefield said he could bang on the floor.*​_
> *So to be clear: A woman who’s had a single sip of alcohol is unable to consent to sex. But a profoundly retarded man who can’t speak or eat on his own can.* More of that Male Privilege at work, I guess.


M'bold.

Unbelievable. Society is well & truly screwed...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Afghan police banging little boys. (language warning)

A National Shame




> “In all our training, we were told to be ready and accept Afghan corruption as a way of doing business,” my buddy told me.
> 
> My friend is an Army officer who spent some time in Afghanistan advising local police, and to this day, he is haunted by the thought that what he saw one night at an Afghan police chief’s home was not the police chief’s nephew, as he had claimed, but a sex slave. “He looked traumatized,” my buddy said. “Looking back, he probably saw a whole bunch of us gathering at the chief’s house and thought he was going to be gang raped. He was terrified.”


I'd have a court martial against me in hours...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> <just shaking my head...>
> 
> TEACH WOMEN NOT TO RAPE!
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Unbelievable. Society is well & truly screwed...


I don't understand the point of this post, nor your outrage.

This case is ongoing. The woman has not been exonerated. This, apparently, was from her attempted defence of her actions.

If she is cleared of wrongdoing, then I'd join you in being outraged. But to pick something like this out of the court case in progress and present it as - well, what, exactly?

Very odd post.


----------



## Macfury

Putin is really kicking Obama's pipsqueak ass at the UN these days, This is what you get for vacating a position of leadership.

Obama has turned Putin into the world’s most powerful leader | New York Post


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Brilliant...
> 
> Obama Frees 20th 9/11 Hijacker


The folks at Snopes refute that this was sudden or unexpected. They cite various U.S. and international news sources from months ago discussing his impending release:

_The excerpt quoted above suggests that Shalabi’s release was unexpected and deliberately coordinated so as to go unnoticed during media coverage of Pope Francis’ arrival in Washington D.C. However, Shalabi’s release was neither unexpected, nor was it ignored by the media. A widely-reproduced Associated Press article published three months earlier had announced that Shalabi, who had been on a nine-year hunger strike, had been approved for release from Guantanamo by a government review board...

* * *​
Similarly, an 8 August 2015 New York Post article reported that Shalabi was due to be released soon (partly to care for his mother)

* * *​
So while it’s true that Abdul Shalabi was transferred from Guantanamo to Saudi Arabia on 22 September 2015, the formal decision to do so was made well in advance of the Pope’s September 2015 visit to the U.S., and news of Shalabi’s hearing, review, and release was reported by major news outlets (inside and outside the United States) both before and during the event._​


----------



## FeXL

It's not outrage, it's exasperation at the double standard.

The point is bolded. If a man walked into a courtroom after having non-consensual sex with a woman who is unable to speak or eat on her own & told the judge she "could bang on the floor" to stop him, the MSM & feminists would (rightfully) want heads to roll.

The reverse just happened & you have to find mention of it on obscure blogs.



CubaMark said:


> I don't understand the point of this post, nor your outrage.


----------



## FeXL

You are thick, aren't you?

I could care less what Snopes thinks. This has everything to do with who he is, what he did & the extreme likelihood of him pursuing terrorism again when he gets home. It has nothing to do with an expedited timeline.



CubaMark said:


> The folks at Snopes blah, blah, blah...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You are thick, aren't you?


Thick skin, yes. Have to, around here, when an innocuous post results in that kind of comeback. It certainly continues to reveal character....


----------



## FeXL

An innocuous post doesn't accuse someone of outrage...



CubaMark said:


> Thick skin, yes. Have to, around here, when an innocuous post results in that kind of comeback. It certainly continues to reveal character....


----------



## SINC

It just keeps getting worse.



> *Minimum wage hike another blow to Alberta economy*
> 
> Move could cause struggling provincial businesses to shed *more than 50,000 jobs*
> 
> The Alberta government’s reckless plan to increase the minimum wage to *$15 per hour could cost the economy at least 50,000 jobs, and will force employers to cut back on hours, re-think hiring plans, and will definitely mean less opportunity for young Albertans*.


Minimum wage hike another blow to Alberta economy


----------



## FeXL

For unknown reasons, still a surprise to some.

Public Trust in Media At All Time Low; Independents' Trust In Media Falls to Level of Republicans' Trust in Media



> Well, a statistical tie, anyway -- 33% of Independents say they have trust in the media, compared to 32% of Republicans.
> 
> The Washington Post's haplessly biased Chris Cilzza blames this on "partisans" sabotaging trust in the media.
> 
> *I agree. Media partisans like Chris Cilizza are indeed the problem.*


M'bold.

More:



> 1, I think it's creepy that the forces of corporate-political conformity are so insistent that we trust them.
> 
> ...
> 
> 2, this is of course whining and special pleading from people who can't do their jobs very well but what to keep telling us how _harrrrrrd_ it is in hopes we'll grade them on the curve.
> 
> Well, we already _are_ grading you on the curve -- we've priced in most of your partisanship and incompetency -- and you're _still failing._


Italics from the link.


----------



## FeXL

Amazing. Mercer Island School District, located in a suburb of Seattle, recently banned tag on it's playground. For once, there was a hue & cry against the stupidity & they quickly reinstated the game.

Mercer Island School District rescinds 'Tag' ban after public outcry



> What have our schools become when administrators ban the game of tag over the emotional well-being of kids? Well, a laughing stock.
> 
> But that hasn't stopped the Mercer Island School District from banning the harmless game without even consulting parents.
> 
> The school district's communications director Macy Grade, in an email, told Q13 that the "rationale behind this [ban] is to ensure the physical and emotional safety of all students."


----------



## Dr.G.

Sad, but all too true.


----------



## Macfury

It is not remotely all too true. It's funny how progressives always attribute disagreement to fear.


----------



## Vandave

Dr. G, I would suggest it is the left who is afraid. Why else would that graphic be created if not for fear?


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> Dr. G, I would suggest it is the left who is afraid. Why else would that graphic be created if not for fear?


You guys are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G.

This is *exactly* the kind of fear & hatred spread by the characters pictured.

To deny it is to confirm your ideological position.


----------



## Vandave

CubaMark said:


> You guys are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G.
> 
> This is *exactly* the kind of fear & hatred spread by the characters pictured.
> 
> To deny it is to confirm your ideological position.


No, it's not fearful or disingenuous at all to selectively use photographs of Republicans that make them look crazy. 

I'm far from a chearleader of Republicans and if I were American, I would have voted Obama the last two elections, so don't throw the bias accusation at me. You can read my posts from when Obama first ran to see what my opinion was if you want to confirm that.

If I were American, I would probably vote Republican for the next President, even if Trump wins the nomination.


----------



## Macfury

That you would associate disagreement with fear and hatred makes it clear how entrenched you are in your positioning. You're so suffused with the atmosphere inside your own bell jar that you can't see it.

I disagree with Obamacare so I am automatically afraid of it? The left is afraid of almost everything it disagrees with, and for some reason believes the rest of the populace is also ****-ing its pants.




CubaMark said:


> You guys are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G.
> 
> This is *exactly* the kind of fear & hatred spread by the characters pictured.
> 
> To deny it is to confirm your ideological position.


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> No, it's not fearful or disingenuous at all to selectively use photographs of Republicans that make them look crazy.


You're avoiding the point. 

Those Republican candidates for President have all done exactly what Dr. G's graphic asserts: used the issues cited to create fear among the voters, to support their candidacy because they'll 'get tough' and return America (God Bless Her!!) to "Traditional Values" (*Amen!*).

The graphic is on point. You and MF attempting to deflect, avoid, dismiss it is an amusing and sad little dance.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> You guys are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G.
> 
> This is *exactly* the kind of fear & hatred spread by the characters pictured.
> 
> To deny it is to confirm your ideological position.


I cannot agree they are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G., Mark. He commands a great deal of respect here and it is always shown.

I do however believe they think it is the image itself, that is disingenuous, and unfair.


----------



## Vandave

In my opinion, the left has become the new religious right. 

30 years ago, the religious right was fearful of 'cultural change' and believed in forcing their social beliefs onto people through methods such as censorship. They wanted to ban words, ban music, ban TV shows, etc..

When I see the left today, I see similar fears to what the religious right movement had 30 years ago. The second you deviate from their belief system, you are immediately bullied and treated as an outsider. 

The Niqab is a good example of all this. If you don't agree with the left, then you're a bigot.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> I cannot agree they are being disingenuous, and unfair to Dr. G., Mark. He commands a great deal of respect here and it is always shown.
> 
> I do however believe they think it is the image itself, that is disingenuous, and unfair.


I think all political parties are so ashamed of what they really stand for that they campaign almost exclusively on fear of the other guy and failing that fear of shadows. 

Trouble is some of us have actually talked to individuals who grew up in Nazi Germany. They consistently point out the very chilling similarities between the Adolph tactics what is happening today in the US. 

While hatred and fear may be very effective tools for manipulating a population, it is impossible for any good to come from pursuing that tactic!


----------



## Macfury

Only works if you are afraid--not simply in disagreement.



eMacMan said:


> I think all political parties are so ashamed of what they really stand for that they campaign almost exclusively on fear of the other guy and failing that fear of shadows.
> 
> Trouble is some of us have actually talked to individuals who grew up in Nazi Germany. They consistently point out the very chilling similarities between the Adolph tactics what is happening today in the US.
> 
> While hatred and fear may be very effective tools for manipulating a population, it is impossible for any good to come from pursuing that tactic!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is not remotely all too true. It's funny how progressives always attribute disagreement to fear.


Me a progressive? Thanks for the compliment, mon ami. Sadly, many are doing more than disagreeing with certain groups of people. Of course, then if what you say is true, the right has nothing to fear from the likes of Pres. Obama. Fair is fair. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> Dr. G, I would suggest it is the left who is afraid. Why else would that graphic be created if not for fear?


True. Many people, on the left, right and center, are fearful that there are various positions held by some people that are venturing into the "hate" category. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> In my opinion, the left has become the new religious right.
> 
> 30 years ago, the religious right was fearful of 'cultural change' and believed in forcing their social beliefs onto people through methods such as censorship. They wanted to ban words, ban music, ban TV shows, etc..
> 
> When I see the left today, I see similar fears to what the religious right movement had 30 years ago. The second you deviate from their belief system, you are immediately bullied and treated as an outsider.
> 
> The Niqab is a good example of all this. If you don't agree with the left, then you're a bigot.


To a degree, I agree with you here. I see the change, as you mention in your posting, from both the left and right, taking views and beliefs to the extreme. There is little room for those of us in the center to reach any sort of compromise. I won't use certain racial and religious "slurs", but I have no problem wishing you a "merry Christmas", or saying the US Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase "one nation under God" included in the pledge.

I guess, to be totally fair, there could have been other pictures included in the jpeg that included those on the left that have said things that incite or demonstrate hatred. I did not create the jpeg.

Still, as Macfury would agree, I do believe in FDR and especially what he said re "fear".


----------



## Dr.G.

"While hatred and fear may be very effective tools for manipulating a population, it is impossible for any good to come from pursuing that tactic!" An excellent point, eMacMan.


----------



## Macfury

I don't fear him--I despise his policies.



Dr.G. said:


> Me a progressive? Thanks for the compliment, mon ami. Sadly, many are doing more than disagreeing with certain groups of people. Of course, then if what you say is true, the right has nothing to fear from the likes of Pres. Obama. Fair is fair. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't fear him--I despise his policies.


But at least you dislike for his policies is based on your political point of view, and not his race or name. That is at least fair.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> "While hatred and fear may be very effective tools for manipulating a population, it is impossible for any good to come from pursuing that tactic!" An excellent point, eMacMan.


These tools are generally only useful when you can use the State to force them on people. Maybe we should be leery of giving the State too much power. Governments have killed far more people than individuals on their own volition. 

I wish more people would push their moral agenda's outside of government, rather than trying to use governments to manipulate others. From a historical point of view, I think the left has been more guilty in this respect for the last 30 years.

I wish more people would see the State as a double edged sword. In the last 30 years, Courts have made many rulings in favour of 'the left'. That may swing the other way in the future on other issues that are not currently on our radar. 

As far as current elections go, an example is Syrian refugees. The first thought of the left is to have government solve the problem, rather than themselves. I think the right wing, and religious right in particular, walks the walk. You see Churches helping all sorts of immigrants and refugees in challenging situations. You don't see the left doing the same.

I also think some of this lefty fear is due to Projection as Freud might say. The left fears that the right will use the same tactics they use, which is the strong arm of government to push an agenda. They naturally assume the right is doing the same thing so they are ultra sensitive to any issue the right speaks freely about.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> But at least you dislike for his policies is based on your political point of view, and not his race or name. That is at least fair.


If he was tight on spending and tough in international negotiations I would embrace him like a brother.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> These tools are generally only useful when you can use the State to force them on people. Maybe we should be leery of giving the State too much power. Governments have killed far more people than individuals on their own volition.
> 
> I wish more people would push their moral agenda's outside of government, rather than trying to use governments to manipulate others. From a historical point of view, I think the left has been more guilty in this respect for the last 30 years.
> 
> I wish more people would see the State as a double edged sword. In the last 30 years, Courts have made many rulings in favour of 'the left'. That may swing the other way in the future on other issues that are not currently on our radar.
> 
> As far as current elections go, an example is Syrian refugees. The first thought of the left is to have government solve the problem, rather than themselves. I think the right wing, and religious right in particular, walks the walk. You see Churches helping all sorts of immigrants and refugees in challenging situations. You don't see the left doing the same.
> 
> I also think some of this lefty fear is due to Projection as Freud might say. The left fears that the right will use the same tactics they use, which is the strong arm of government to push an agenda. They naturally assume the right is doing the same thing so they are ultra sensitive to any issue the right speaks freely about.


Interesting. Now, take the Supreme Court rulings back an additional 30 years, to the early/mid-50s, and you will see some of their rulings bringing America out of the darkness of bigotry, especially in the area of civil rights. 

Yes, governmental swords cut both ways. Still, what we need are people who will at least listen to other points of view, even change their views at times, and are willing to compromise to reach some sort of agreement.

So, merry pre-Christmas, mon ami, and God bless ehMacLand. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If he was tight on spending and tough in international negotiations I would embrace him like a brother.


Interesting. Good for you, mon ami. I would like to have seen spending sent to different areas (e.g., less drones, bombs, etc, and more spent of returning vets) and I am still concerned about the deal in Iran.


----------



## FeXL

Everything's fine, Dr.G...



Dr.G. said:


> ...I am still concerned about the deal in Iran.


----------



## FeXL

Quotable quote:



> “Barack Obama’s not a failure because he was a first-term senator, or even for lack of experience. He’s had seven years of presidential experience and, in my mind, he’s still failing. Barack Obama has failed as president because his ideas don’t work. And they wouldn’t have worked if he’d been in the senate for 40 years. And they wouldn’t have worked if he was the CEO of a major company. And they wouldn’t have worked if he was a governor. His ideas do not work. They don’t work in America, they’ve never worked anywhere in the world. *Here’s what works: free enterprise, a limited government, a strong national security. That’s what we need from our next president.”*


M'bold.

Yep...


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Quotable quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...



Hmm. I wonder what close-minded Neanderthal might have come up with that? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Probably a successful and wealthy one--instead of the teat sucking lefty neanderthal collectivists who wait for apples to drop into their mouths.



fjnmusic said:


> Hmm. I wonder what close-minded Neanderthal might have come up with that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Man, that's trite. I neither laugh at or listen to those comedians, by the way.


----------



## SINC

That guy in the bottom picture is a bigger goof than Trump and totally out of his element. Turned him off the first time I ever saw his blather.


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Russia Destroys ISIS Training Camp and Command Center That For Some Curious Reason Was Still Standing After a Year of Obama's "Degrade and Destroy" Air Campaign



> *I guess Obama just didn't notice the ISIS Command Center there.*
> 
> Obama spoke earlier today about Putin. His big move was, get this, to indulge in Mean Girl put-downs of the Russians, because that's pretty much all he knows -- politicking, insulting, running Mean Girl campaigns against people that are showing him up.


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

*Why sorry isn't enough after deadly hospital airstrike*










Mark Toner, the suave U.S. State Department spokesman, arrived in the briefing room Monday unprepared for what was coming.

Two days earlier, American airstrikes had obliterated a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, operated by Doctors Without Borders. The attack killed 22 people, including several staff members.

By the time Toner took to his podium, U.S. military officials had already given conflicting versions of what had happened.

But the underlying message was the same: There had been Taliban militants near the hospital and, in defence of American and Afghan troops, an American airstrike had inadvertently and tragically killed civilians.

Clearly, in Toner's mind, the attack was a Pentagon matter. His briefing book contained some words of condolence to families of the dead, and evidently not much more.

Then Matt Lee of the Associated Press asked a question.

Lee began by reading aloud a State Department statement issued in August 2014 after an Israeli missile attack killed several people at a UN school in Gaza.

"The United States is appalled by today's disgraceful shelling outside an UNRWA school," said the State Department at the time. "The coordinates of the school, like all UN facilities in Gaza, have been repeatedly communicated to the Israeli Defence Forces."

The statement continued: "The suspicion that militants are operating nearby does not justify strikes that put at risk the lives of so many innocent civilians."

So, asked Lee, does that sentence about the presence of militants not justifying strikes that endanger innocent civilians stand as U.S. government policy?

Toner, having seen where this was going, dived into his official condolences, but quickly ran out of prepared messages.

He looked up: "Uh, you know, these are difficult situations, uh, it was I think … an active combat zone."

* * *

U.S. forces in Afghanistan, he told Toner, had been given the coordinates of the school, "much as the IDF had been given the coordinates of the school in Rafah" in Gaza.

Toner evaded: "I think it's safe to say that, you know, this attack, this bombing, was not intentional," he replied, asking for "a pass" until the investigations by U.S. agencies are completed.

Lee then expertly closed the trap.

After the "disgraceful" Israeli attack, he pointed out, the State Department declared itself "appalled" even before any investigation had begun.

"So. Can you say now … that this shelling of this hospital was disgraceful and appalling?"

* * *​
In bringing up the 2014 denunciation of Israel, and its similarities to the slaughter in Kunduz, he skillfully peeled away a central hypocrisy of American governments, and left it on shivering display before TV cameras.

* * *​
the White House and the State Department maintain lists of terrorist organizations and of states they accuse of supporting terror.

Washington has also seen to it that several foreign leaders have been indicted and judged for war crimes.

At the same time, it brushes off as ridiculous any assertion that America has funded or supported terrorists, despite ample evidence to that effect over the years, in places like Central America, Southeast Asia and Afghanistan.

America's violent proxies abroad are always "freedom fighters," because fighting on America's behalf is per se fighting for freedom, under the circular logic of the doctrine of exceptionalism.

* * *​
Doctors Without Borders has said the attack on its hospital, (carried out by one of America's fearsome Spectre aircraft, basically a flying weapon of mass destruction), constituted a war crime — wanton disregard for civilian life.

And perhaps Doctors Without Borders is correct. It's not the first such accusation against the U.S. military.

* * *​
"There's no other, frankly, country or government that takes greater care to investigate incidents like this, uh, to hold folks accountable and to, uh, try to, uh, take every measure possible to avoid civilian casualties."

On Tuesday, President Obama apologized. His spokesman said that when America "makes a mistake, we're honest about it."

And the families of those who died in that hospital attack will just have to be content with that.​
(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

There's a lot of truth in that post, CM.


----------



## CubaMark

*
Yep. Good pal of Kissinger. Tea buddy of Thatcher. Released from custody in the UK by Blair before the Spanish courts could get ahold of him.

















And the lovely USA, knowing all along of the monster they created, sat on this memo for decades.*

*Pinochet directly ordered killing on US soil of Chilean diplomat, papers reveal*










General Augusto Pinochet directly ordered the 1976 assassination of a Chilean diplomat who was killed in a car bomb in Washington DC, according top secret US intelligence documents declassified by the Obama administration.

The documents, which were handed to the Chilean president, Michelle Bachelet, on Tuesday in Santiago by the US secretary of state, John Kerry, also show that the former dictator was so concerned with covering up his role in the murder that he planned to assassinate his own head of intelligence, General Manuel Contreras.

Orlando Letelier, a former defence and foreign minister under President Salvador Allende, was tortured and incarcerated after Pinochet’s 1973 coup. He later fled to the US and worked at the Institute of Policy Studies in Washington DC.

Letelier, who had once been Chile’s ambassador to the US, was murdered on 21 September 1976 by a car bomb planted under the driver’s seat of his vehicle just a mile from the White House.

Ronni Moffitt, an American colleague, was also killed in the blast. Her husband Michael survived but was badly wounded.

* * *​
Kornbluh, a senior analyst at the National Security Archives, called for the full release of all the intelligence documents on Pinochet’s role in the Letelier-Moffitt bombing.

Investigators in the US and Chile are poring through the records searching for evidence that CIA officials had forewarning but did not stop the assassination plan.

Speculation that the CIA was aware of the plot to kill Letelier is based on previously declassified records showing that Manuel Contreras was paid by the CIA before the bombing and was in regular contact with top officials at the spy agency.​
(TheGuardian)


----------



## CubaMark

_“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”_​
― Thomas Jefferson​


----------



## Macfury

We are not much more enlightened--in some ways more barbarous.



CubaMark said:


> _“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”_​
> ― Thomas Jefferson​


----------



## Macfury

"Uncle" Joe Biden bows out of challenging the flailing Hillary Clinton for the Democrat nomination. At the same time, marginal Democrat contender Jim Webb has quit and says he may go independent because the Democrat party has simply become too socialist.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

Perfectly timed hyena cackle from Hillary! That was fun.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....marginal Democrat contender Jim Webb has quit and says he may go independent because the Democrat party has simply become too socialist.


Jeebus. Those folks south of the border really have no idea what "socialist" means, do they?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Jeebus. Those folks south of the border really have no idea what "socialist" means, do they?


The mean "too socialist" 

It's gone far enough already.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

An ObamaCare Success Story



> The IRS collected $1.5 billion in non-compliance 'penalties' for tax year 2014.
> 
> ...
> 
> An idea so GOOD it had to be made MANDATORY.
> 
> ...
> 
> Little remarked has been the failure of 5 of the original 24 ObamaCare insurers in the past three weeks, bringing the total to 9 that have folded so far.
> - Unremarked is the "secret" list HHS has and is refusing to release of 11 more that are on the brink of failure.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes, the pride of the Democrat party...

Hillary Told Daughter Chelsea That Terrorists Were Behind Benghazi Attack The Night It Happened



> Hillary Clinton sent an email to her daughter, Chelsea, on Sept. 11, 2012 in which she asserted that an al-Qaida-like group was responsible for the terrorist attacks in Benghazi, it was revealed on Thursday during the former secretary of state’s testimony to the House Select Committee on Benghazi.
> 
> The email, which was revealed by Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan , indicates that Clinton knew early on that the attacks which left four Americans dead was carried out by terrorists. *But as Jordan pointed out, Clinton and others in the Obama administration had already begun crafting the narrative that the attack was spontaneous and that the attackers were motivated by a YouTube video many Muslims found offensive.*


M'bold.

Lying. Bitch.


----------



## FeXL

Under one liberal's rule...

SNAPing America's back



> There are now more Americans on Food Stamps, renamed SNAP, (roughly 46,000,000) than the total population of Canada (roughly 34,834,831).
> 
> But that pales alongside the number of unemployed Americans being roughly three times the population of Canada.
> - *Only 59% of working age Americans 'work'* (that's 149 million of 251 million working age workers, including the 20 million part-time workers).


M'bold.

Stunning...


----------



## FeXL

Hillary hypocrisy, much?

Clinton Library Funded By OffShore Tax Haven



> Hillary Clinton is repeating the Democrat trope about “offshore tax havens” that immorally divert profits from workers and the taxman. Closing these is a central plank of her promised agenda as President, she explains in an op-ed laying out her economic agenda.
> 
> Setting aside the economic merits of her plan, the proposal is a little rich coming from Hillary Clinton.
> 
> *Just ten years ago, when she and Bill were building the Clinton Presidential Library, they received a critical short-term loan from a supporter’s “offshore tax haven.” Like most everything else with the Clinton family, the rules and policies they promote are for other people.*


M'bold.

Is this really the best person the Democrats could come up with?


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Pride of the Left...

Now she claims she didn't blame Benghazi on a video.

Hillary: I Didn't Blame Benghazi On The YouTube Video



> Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's testimony yesterday before the congressional committee formed to investigate the deadly Benghazi debacle that she allowed to happen and then tried to cover up can be summed up in two words: she lied.
> 
> Boiled down: Despite mountains of email evidence to the contrary, Clinton denied that she previously blamed the Sept. 11, 2012 terrorist attack that took four American lives on an at-the-time unwatched anti-Islam YouTube video. She denied that left-wing slime merchant and Clinton groupie Sidney Blumenthal was her advisor. She even denied having a computer on her desk at the State Department.


Unbelievable...


----------



## FeXL

When even Bill Maher gets angry with PC...

Bill Maher Rips PC-Left As ‘Humorless Jackoffs’ Over Halloween Costume Outrage [VIDEO]



> In his “New Rules” segment on HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher,” host Bill Maher went on an epic rant against the faux outrage whipped up across the country against politically incorrect Halloween costumes.
> 
> “The fake outrage people get 364 days a year to hypersensitive about everything, there has to be one day where ‘going too far’ isn’t just OK, it’s celebrated,” Maher said. *“Halloween is supposed to be politically incorrect. That’s why we say ‘trick or treat’ instead of ‘placate and coddle.'”*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

This must be some of that "Hope & Change" that he campaigned on.

Great: More Americans on Welfare Than Working Full Time



> A new report from the Census Bureau showed a total of 108,592,000 people were on some sort of means-tested government benefits program in the fourth quarter of 2011, yet only 101,716,000 people were employed full-time for the entire year.


Further:



> *Programs such as Social Security, unemployment insurance, workers compensation, and veterans benefits are not considered to be "means tested," so recipients of those benefits are not included in the 108,592,000 figure. *


Unbelievable...


----------



## FeXL

More Hope & Change...

Secret IRS policy hides identity theft from victims

The setup?



> One meeting room. Two IRS whistleblowers. Three TV cameras. Hundreds of questions.


The results?



> Findings of the 13 Investigates report include:
> 
> * The IRS accepts millions of tax returns – and issues tax refunds – even when taxpayer documents show clear warning signs of identity theft
> * Confidential IRS policies instruct IRS employees not to tell taxpayers when someone else uses their social security number to earn income
> * The IRS allows illegal immigrants to "borrow" social security numbers that do not legally belong to them
> * The IRS is discontinuing a program to notify taxpayers when their social security number is used by someone else to gain employment


----------



## Macfury

Why do you want to make it harder for illegal aliens to get a high-paying and rewarding job, FexL?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> When even Bill Maher gets angry with PC...
> 
> Bill Maher Rips PC-Left As ‘Humorless Jackoffs’ Over Halloween Costume Outrage [VIDEO]
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.


Maher has been stepping on various PC toes for as long as I can remember! Perhaps this go-round just lacked his normal finesse.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Why do you want to make it harder for illegal aliens to get a high-paying and rewarding job, FexL?


Us ******** are like that. Our ancestors entered the country legally, participated in the whole immigration process, worked their fingers to the bone eking a living from the soil to support their families & giving their neighbours a hand whenever it was needed. They earned everything they got. No handouts, social assistance, free-loading, nothing. They would go without in order to feed & clothe their children. They were thankful for the opportunity & everyone contributed, from the youngest children to the oldest adults.

You want citizenship? Earn it. You want high pay? Earn it. You want a rewarding job? Earn it. 

You want to jump a border, bypass the legal immigration system, get free health care & live off of social assistance on the backs of generations of taxpayers before you, quit gaming the system & get the hell out. Get off your entitled a$$ & go back where you came from...


----------



## Macfury

:-(



FeXL said:


> Us ******** are like that. Our ancestors entered the country legally, participated in the whole immigration process, worked their fingers to the bone eking a living from the soil to support their families & giving their neighbours a hand whenever it was needed. They earned everything they got. No handouts, social assistance, free-loading, nothing. They would go without in order to feed & clothe their children. They were thankful for the opportunity & everyone contributed, from the youngest children to the oldest adults.
> 
> You want citizenship? Earn it. You want high pay? Earn it. You want a rewarding job? Earn it.
> 
> You want to jump a border, bypass the legal immigration system, get free health care & live off of social assistance on the backs of generations of taxpayers before you, quit gaming the system & get the hell out. Get off your entitled a$$ & go back where you came from...


----------



## CubaMark

*....and this guy is leading in the polls. With Trump polling 2nd. American politics has reached peak surreal.*


----------



## Macfury

What was it that Carson actually said?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> What was it that Carson actually said?


*Ben Carson's unusual theory about pyramids*

_Ben Carson stood by his long-held belief about ancient pyramids in Egypt, that they were used to store grain, rather than to inter pharaohs.

Asked about this Wednesday, Carson told CBS News, "It's still my belief, yes."

The subject came up when Buzzfeed published a 1998 commencement speech delivered by Carson at Andrews University, a college founded by Seventh-day Adventists.

"My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain," Carson said. "Now all the archeologists think that they were made for the pharaohs' graves. But, you know, it would have to be something awfully big if you stop and think about it. And I don't think it'd just disappear over the course of time to store that much grain."

In the same speech, he went on to say, "[W]hen you look at the way that the pyramids are made, with many chambers that are hermetically sealed, they'd have to be that way for various reasons. And various of scientists have said, 'Well, you know there were alien beings that came down and they have special knowledge and that's how--' you know, it doesn't require an alien being when God is with you."

Polls: Ben Carson leads the field; Clinton widens lead over Sanders
Carson reiterated to CBS News that "the pyramids were made in a way that they had hermetically sealed compartments....You would need that if you were trying to preserve grain for a long period of time."

What Carson has in mind here is the seven years of plenty in Egypt, referred to in Genesis, when "Joseph stored up grain in great abundance like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it, for it was beyond measure." In the Bible, Joseph fed Egypt and the rest of the world during the seven years of drought that followed._​
(CBS News)

*The pyramids-as-granaries idea first appeared in Christian writings in the middle ages. The BBC has a good overview.*


----------



## Macfury

So in fact, he said that it DOES NOT require aliens to build pyramids. So people are on his ass because he thought some of the pyramids were built to store grain?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> So in fact, he said that it DOES NOT require aliens to build pyramids. So people are on his ass because he thought some of the pyramids were built to store grain?


The fact that a Presidential candidate in the year 2015 continues to believe a religious fable that the pyramids - which were constructed a couple of centuries before the biblical story of Joseph storing grain for the peoples of Egypt - were just big-ass granaries doesn't call into question for you this guy's capacity for rational thought... well... that's disturbing in itself.

Trump may be a pompous, multi-bankrupted, self-important ass, but Carson - that guy is just plain _nuts._


----------



## CubaMark

*Former U.S. Comptroller General: Real U.S. Debt Is About $65 Trillion*

November 9th, 2015

Via: The Hill:

The former U.S. comptroller general says the real U.S. debt is closer to about $65 trillion than the oft-cited figure of $18 trillion.

Dave Walker, who headed the Government Accountability Office (GAO) under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, said when you add up all of the nation’s unfunded liabilities, the national debt is more than three times the number generally advertised.

“If you end up adding to that $18.5 trillion the unfunded civilian and military pensions and retiree healthcare, the additional underfunding for Social Security, the additional underfunding for Medicare, various commitments and contingencies that the federal government has, the real number is about $65 trillion rather than $18 trillion, and it’s growing automatically absent reforms,” Walker told host John Catsimatidis on “The Cats Roundtable” on New York’s AM-970 in an interview airing Sunday.​
(The Hill via Cryptogon)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The fact that a Presidential candidate in the year 2015 continues to believe a religious fable that the pyramids - which were constructed a couple of centuries before the biblical story of Joseph storing grain for the peoples of Egypt - were just big-ass granaries doesn't call into question for you this guy's capacity for rational thought... well... that's disturbing in itself.
> 
> Trump may be a pompous, multi-bankrupted, self-important ass, but Carson - that guy is just plain _nuts._


I've heard Obama say he was going to heal the planet and lower sea levels. Sorry, no traction here.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> :-(


I know.

That's why I'll never make it as a politician. Todays mamby-pamby electorate can't handle that much honesty...


----------



## FeXL

The fact that a President and Prime Minister in 2015 continue to believe a religious fable that AGW exists is no less stunning...



CubaMark said:


> The fact that a Presidential candidate in the year 2015 continues to believe a religious fable that the pyramids...


----------



## Macfury

Yes, this is no secret. Just as it is no secret that the current hooraw over declining unemployment numbers is based largely on declining overall workforce participation, not elevated employment.



CubaMark said:


> *Former U.S. Comptroller General: Real U.S. Debt Is About $65 Trillion*
> 
> November 9th, 2015
> 
> Via: The Hill:
> 
> The former U.S. comptroller general says the real U.S. debt is closer to about $65 trillion than the oft-cited figure of $18 trillion.
> 
> Dave Walker, who headed the Government Accountability Office (GAO) under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, said when you add up all of the nation’s unfunded liabilities, the national debt is more than three times the number generally advertised.
> 
> “If you end up adding to that $18.5 trillion the unfunded civilian and military pensions and retiree healthcare, the additional underfunding for Social Security, the additional underfunding for Medicare, various commitments and contingencies that the federal government has, the real number is about $65 trillion rather than $18 trillion, and it’s growing automatically absent reforms,” Walker told host John Catsimatidis on “The Cats Roundtable” on New York’s AM-970 in an interview airing Sunday.​
> (The Hill via Cryptogon)


----------



## FeXL

Further on KXL.

Warren Buffett and the Keystone Decision



> When President Obama announced he was killing the Keystone XL pipeline, he said he was agreeing with the State Department’s assessment that the pipeline from Canada “would not serve the national interests of the United States.” The fact is that it would not have benefitted the personal financial interests of friend and economic mentor, Warren Buffett, who can rest assured that oil from Canada and the nearby Bakken formation in North Dakota will continue to be transported by a railroad he owns.


More:



> President Obama would soon launch an endless review process that would kick the Keystone oil can down the road until he was ready to kill it, a non-suspicious interval of time having elapsed after economic mentor Warren Buffet would buy the railroad that would replace Keystone XL. So how did Buffett do on his investment and did he profit from buddy Obama’s delaying and then killing the pipeline? Some would say handsomely. As Forbes reported last year:
> 
> _His company, Berkshire Hathaway, purchased Burlington Northern Santa Fe for $34 billion four years ago. FORBES estimates its value has doubled since then. Part of the reason: hauling oil out of the Bakken formation of North Dakota.​_
> *Doubling a $34 billion investment in just four years is huge. Warren Buffett is a respected investor but it doesn’t hurt to have the ear of the President as he kills off your competition in oil transport.*


M'bold.

Nice...


----------



## FeXL

This morning I read a quick news report about a shooting near Baton Rouge. No mention of the race of the police shooters or the father & son victim. I smiled knowingly & knew immediately that the victims must have been white, simply from the absence of description.

Even more amazing, however, is that the police are black. This is not likely to be a story you'll see in the MSM. It simply does not follow the narrative...

Two Black Cops Kill 6-Year-Old White Child: Imagine If Races Were Reversed



> The shooting happened on a dead-end street at the end of a Tuesday night chase in Marksville, a town of about 5,500 about 90 miles northwest of Baton Rouge. They don’t know why the officers pursued the man, and there appears to be no reason for shots to be fired, since there were no outstanding warrants against the man.


More:



> In this case we are witnessing Liberalism at its finest. Change the races, and you would have black people burning down cities all over America, and white Liberal enablers would be selling them matches and fuel.
> 
> ...
> 
> I stand with the men and women in blue, but recognize that they aren’t all honorable. These two were not honorable. But I don’t expect white people to condemn all cops, based on the actions of these two black thugs. Cities in America won’t be torched by white people demanding justice. Perhaps #BlackLivesMatter could learn from this? On second thought, I doubt it.


Agreed.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Even more amazing, however, is that the police are black. This is not likely to be a story you'll see in the MSM. It simply does not follow the narrative...


*How would you know? * You've confessed to not watching any MSM due to its conflict with your worldview.

I've seen this story in many news sites since it broke... It's beyond tragic, and the cops involved are real winners. It's been reported that they were the defendants in a previous lawsuit. In this case, from the last thing I read, they have refused to tell investigators *why* they wanted to pull this guy over. Hope the book is thrown at them with great ferocity.


----------



## FeXL

Because it's their _modus operandi._ It's what they do. If there had been any changes to the leftist narrative the blogosphere would be alight with shock & awe.



CubaMark said:


> How would you know?


I don't watch MSM. And, it's not my worldview they don't represent. They miss truth, honour, accuracy & unbias. 

You want to offer your take on a story? Fine. Accurately present both sides, form your opinion, back it up with evidence & print the story. Anything less is so much white-washed partisan BS.



CubaMark said:


> You've confessed to not watching any MSM due to its conflict with your worldview.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You want to offer your take on a story? Fine. Accurately present both sides, form your opinion, back it up with evidence & print the story. Anything less is so much white-washed partisan BS.


As usual, you miss the point.

You said: 
*Even more amazing, however, is that the police are black. This is not likely to be a story you'll see in the MSM. It simply does not follow the narrative...*​
This isn't about my "take" on the story. _You_ claimed that the MSM would 'likely' not cover the story because of the races of the offenders. I replied stating that this was incorrect (_no, not a lie, dearie me, no...._). There are ample examples of this story being reported in the MSM.

You are alleging something that is not true, to fit your obsessive believe that the MSM is somehow deceiving you. Sounds an awful lot like a persecution complex coupled with too much right wingnuttism....


----------



## FeXL

I missed nothing. You as in MSM, not you personally. You missed the point.

White cops killing blacks is turned upside down in the MSM. Riots, fires, death-threats, vandalism. Black cops killings whites will be glossed over like it barely even happened.

And f**k off on the lie thing. And, yes, I do kiss my mother with that mouth. And my bride & children...



CubaMark said:


> As usual, you miss the point.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> White cops killing blacks is turned upside down in the MSM. Riots, fires, death-threats, vandalism. Black cops killings whites will be glossed over like it barely even happened.


Look, just because you want to believe something, doesn't make it true. 

If you're saying that this story of black cops shooting white victims has been "glossed over", then you need to make the case. You know, with _evidence_.

Without evidence, you're just another right-wing blowhard spewing race hatred for no reason.


----------



## CubaMark

_*Who would'a thunk it? Math! An interesting read....*_

*A mathematician may have uncovered widespread election fraud, and Kansas is trying to silence her*

Kansas loves them some voter fraud hysteria. From going to the Supreme Court to try and make doubly-sure that non-citizens can’t vote in their elections to setting up a voter fraud website where citizens can report every kind of voter fraud except the kinds that have actually happened in the state, Kansas is on the forefront of voter fraud readiness and protection.

Except, perhaps, when it comes to the machines they use to record their votes.

According to the Wichita Eagle, Wichita State mathematician Beth Clarkson has found irregularities in election returns from Sedgwick County, along with other counties throughout the United States, but has faced stiff opposition from the state in trying to confirm whether the irregularities are fraud or other, less-nefarious anomalies.​
(Read more at AmericaBlog)


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You, asking me for evidence to support _my_ case?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Go ahead, pull the other one. Physician, heal thyself...



CubaMark said:


> If you're saying that this story of black cops shooting white victims has been "glossed over", then you need to make the case. You know, with _evidence_.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> You, asking me for evidence to support _my_ case?
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


And there we are, folks. What counts as informed discussion and debate at ehMac.

Yup.

XX)


----------



## BigDL

CubaMark said:


> And there we are, folks. What counts as informed discussion and debate at ehMac.
> 
> Yup.
> 
> XX)










Something that needed articulating. Good Job! CM


----------



## FeXL

This, coming from the king of "oh, it's just another nutjob right wing website, no defense needed". 

Tell me how that furthers the discussion?

Besides, if the argument is that fragile, it should be pretty easy to debunk yet you rarely make the effort. Even less often do you succeed...



CubaMark said:


> And there we are, folks. What counts as informed discussion and debate at ehMac.


----------



## FeXL

Coming from one of the queens of Content Free Posts, I'll just consider the source.

Don't you have a Weather thread to attend to?



BigDL said:


> Something that needed articulating. Good Job! CM


----------



## Rps

CubaMark the story of Black cops shooting two Whites was covered by Detroit news, The Washington Post and host of other news agencies which I saw here in Windsor.......maybe confirmation bias strikes against.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> This, coming from the king of "oh, it's just another nutjob right wing website, no defense needed".
> 
> Tell me how that furthers the discussion?


Tell me again how your record of citing nutjob websites as sources of, y'know, _reality_ has worked out for you? We've been over this a few times now... and I'm surprised at your willingness to put your inanity on further display.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Tell me again how your record of citing nutjob websites as sources of, y'know, _reality_ has worked out for you? We've been over this a few times now... and I'm surprised at your willingness to put your inanity on further display.


Phffftt!^^^^^^ _Crooks and Liars!_


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> CubaMark the story of Black cops shooting two Whites was covered by Detroit news, The Washington Post and host of other news agencies which I saw here in Windsor.......maybe confirmation bias strikes against.


Shhhhhh!!!! Rps, we wouldn't want to upset FeXL's false narrative. I think he's getting close to the breaking point...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Phffftt!^^^^^^ _Crooks and Liars!_


I've asked you before to explain your position on C&L. I've yet to see you do so.


----------



## FeXL

The hubris is stunning...

Congress Passes Space Mining Act: There are No Limits to Growth



> Congress has just voted to legalise the mining of Asteroids. In doing so, they have opened the way to the next phase of human history – the unlimited expansion of industrial human civilisation throughout the Universe.


I guess helping the homeless, providing water, shelter & a reliable source of electricity, increasing an atmosphere for job creation, none of these things rank very high with this administration...


----------



## Macfury

The US does not own "the asteroids" anyway.



FeXL said:


> The hubris is stunning...
> 
> Congress Passes Space Mining Act: There are No Limits to Growth
> 
> 
> 
> I guess helping the homeless, providing water, shelter & a reliable source of electricity, increasing an atmosphere for job creation, none of these things rank very high with this administration...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The US does not own "the asteroids" anyway.


Well, that's just one of the things that hit me right off the get go as well.


----------



## CubaMark

*Ex-CIA director: White House ignored months of warnings about 9/11 to avoid leaving "paper trail" of culpability*

In an explosive revelation during an interview with Politico, the former CIA director during President George W. Bush’s administration claims his department informed White house officials over impending Al Qaeda attacks months before the president received the infamous “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” presidential briefing.

According to ex-CIA head George Tenet and Cofer Black, then chief of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, they called an emergency meeting with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on July 10 of 2001 saying they had evidence that an attack on the U.S. was imminent and that it would be “spectacular.”

Beginning in May of 2001, Tenet and Black launched an initiative called “the Blue Sky paper” and pitched it to Bush’s national security team. The CIA called for a joint CIA and military campaign to end the Al Qaeda threat by “getting into the Afghan sanctuary, launching a paramilitary operation, creating a bridge with Uzbekistan.”

* * *​
According to Tenet, “[Condi said:] ‘What do you think we need to do?’ Black responded by slamming his fist on the table, and saying, ‘We need to go on a wartime footing now!’”

When asked “what happened?” after the meeting, Black said nothing much.

“Yeah. What did happen?” Black said. “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.”

* * *​
“And I’ll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They’re coming here.’ And the silence that followed was deafening. You could feel the oxygen come out of the room. ‘They’re coming here.’”​
(Raw Story)


----------



## Macfury

If they had attacked pre-emptively, you'd have been wailing that they were wrongly overthrowing a regime or making warrantless attacks. Wahhhhhhh!



CubaMark said:


> *Ex-CIA director: White House ignored months of warnings about 9/11 to avoid leaving "paper trail" of culpability*
> 
> In an explosive revelation during an interview with Politico, the former CIA director during President George W. Bush’s administration claims his department informed White house officials over impending Al Qaeda attacks months before the president received the infamous “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” presidential briefing.
> 
> According to ex-CIA head George Tenet and Cofer Black, then chief of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, they called an emergency meeting with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on July 10 of 2001 saying they had evidence that an attack on the U.S. was imminent and that it would be “spectacular.”
> 
> Beginning in May of 2001, Tenet and Black launched an initiative called “the Blue Sky paper” and pitched it to Bush’s national security team. The CIA called for a joint CIA and military campaign to end the Al Qaeda threat by “getting into the Afghan sanctuary, launching a paramilitary operation, creating a bridge with Uzbekistan.”
> 
> * * *​
> According to Tenet, “[Condi said:] ‘What do you think we need to do?’ Black responded by slamming his fist on the table, and saying, ‘We need to go on a wartime footing now!’”
> 
> When asked “what happened?” after the meeting, Black said nothing much.
> 
> “Yeah. What did happen?” Black said. “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.”
> 
> * * *​
> “And I’ll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They’re coming here.’ And the silence that followed was deafening. You could feel the oxygen come out of the room. ‘They’re coming here.’”​
> (Raw Story)


----------



## Macfury

Good for Paul Ryan!

Paul Ryan calls for pause in refugee program - CNNPolitics.com



> House Speaker Paul Ryan on Tuesday called for a "pause" in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees after the terror attacks in Paris last week launched by ISIS, and the House could vote as early as this week on legislation on the issue.
> 
> "This is a moment where it is better to be safe than to be sorry, so we think the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program in order to verify that terrorists are not trying to infiltrate the refugee population," Ryan told reporters.


----------



## FeXL

YEP: After boasting for three years that he “ended” the Iraq War, Obama says it was Bush’s fault.



> Yes, I keep repeating this stuff. Because it bears repeating. In Iraq, Obama took a war that we had won at a considerable expense in lives and treasure, and threw it away for the callowest of political reasons. In Syria and Libya, he involved us in wars of choice without Congressional authorization, and proceeded to hand victories to the Islamists. Obama’s policy here has been a debacle of the first order, and the press wants to talk about Bush as a way of protecting him. *Whenever you see anyone in the media bringing up 2003, you will know that they are serving as palace guard, not as press.*


M'bold.

Do I really need the "Yep"?


----------



## Macfury

What a petulant, incompetent loser.



FeXL said:


> YEP: After boasting for three years that he “ended” the Iraq War, Obama says it was Bush’s fault.
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Do I really need the "Yep"?


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting how Donald Trump refused to answer the question from the NBC reporter. DT is really starting to scare me as to the things he is proposing.

Donald Trump's Plan for a Muslim Database Draws Comparison to Nazi Germany - NBC News

Donald Trump says he would 'absolutely' implement Muslim database if elected president - World - CBC News


----------



## FeXL

On the other side of the coin...

Hillary Doubles Down On Clueless



> Hillary Clinton delivered a speech today to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. She discussed terrorism extensively, taking time (like her boss) to ridicule Republicans for referring to radical Islam:
> 
> _Reading her speech at a brisk clip from a teleprompter at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, she slowed momentarily to mock three words – “radical Islamic terrorism” – that Republicans often accuse President Barack Obama of purposefully avoiding. …
> 
> Blaming “radical Islamic terrorism” for vicious attacks of the sort that killed 129 people last Friday in Paris, she said, “is not just a distraction.”
> 
> Affiliating them with a religion, Clinton insisted, “gives these criminals, these murderers, more standing than they deserve and it actually plays into their hands by alienating partners we need by our side.”​_


Pretty damn sure I want no Islamists on our side...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting how Donald Trump refused to answer the question from the NBC reporter. DT is really starting to scare me as to the things he is proposing.
> 
> Donald Trump's Plan for a Muslim Database Draws Comparison to Nazi Germany - NBC News
> 
> Donald Trump says he would 'absolutely' implement Muslim database if elected president - World - CBC News


I checked and Trump did not say it. He said there should be a "watch list" for people suspected of fomenting terrorism. The reporter involved kept pushing the idea of a "Muslim list," but Trump did not--he continued to talk about his border wall.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I checked and Trump did not say it. He said there should be a "watch list" for people suspected of fomenting terrorism. The reporter involved kept pushing the idea of a "Muslim list," but Trump did not--he continued to talk about his border wall.


Trump: I ‘would certainly implement' database to track Muslims - MarketWatch

Donald Trump's horrifying words about Muslims (Opinion) - CNN.com

Trump's plan for a Muslim database draws comparison to Nazi Germany | MSNBC


----------



## Macfury

They're putting words in his mouth. I saw the complete transcript. He was talking about his wall.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump: I ‘would certainly implement' database to track Muslims - MarketWatch
> 
> Donald Trump's horrifying words about Muslims (Opinion) - CNN.com
> 
> Trump's plan for a Muslim database draws comparison to Nazi Germany | MSNBC


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They're putting words in his mouth. I saw the complete transcript. He was talking about his wall.


Trump's plan for a Muslim database draws comparison to Nazi Germany | MSNBC Listen to the first 50 seconds of the interview. He specifically talks about this database.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump's plan for a Muslim database draws comparison to Nazi Germany | MSNBC Listen to the first 50 seconds of the interview. He specifically talks about this database.


Only the reporter keeps talking about a "Muslim database." Trump continues to talk about his wall. They are talking about two entirely different things and Trump never mentions a "Muslim database." Trump says he would certainly implement a wall.

This is scandalously misleading reporting. Utterly shameful work.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Only the reporter keeps talking about a "Muslim database." Trump continues to talk about his wall. They are talking about two entirely different things and Trump never mentions a "Muslim database." Trump says he would certainly implement a wall.
> 
> This is scandalously misleading reporting. Utterly shameful work.


The reporter asks if there should be a Muslim database and he said that there should be a "lot of databases" and that his white house would implement this with "good management systems". These are his words, not mine. Listen to the clip.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, he says there should be a lot of databases--as he has continually stated--to track suspected terrorists. He believes the US is doing a terrible job of it now.

On the reporter harps on about "Muslim databases." In a subsequent clip, Trump is clearly angry about being purposefully misunderstood and refuses to continue speaking to Hillyard.

How the Media Smeared Donald Trump as a Nazi - Breitbart






Dr.G. said:


> The reporter asks if there should be a Muslim database and he said that there should be a "lot of databases" and that his white house would implement this with "good management systems". These are his words, not mine. Listen to the clip.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, he says there should be a lot of databases--as he has continually stated--to track suspected terrorists. He believes the US is doing a terrible job of it now.
> 
> On the reporter harps on about "Muslim databases." In a subsequent clip, Trump is clearly angry about being purposefully misunderstood and refuses to continue speaking to Hillyard.
> 
> How the Media Smeared Donald Trump as a Nazi - Breitbart


Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,” he said. “They have to be.’’

When asked how a system of registering Muslims would be carried out — whether, for instance, mosques would be where people could register — Mr. Trump said: “Different places. You sign up at different places. But it’s all about management. Our country has no management.’’


----------



## Dr.G.

Former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida, who on CNBC, in response to Mr. Trump, said, “You talk about closing mosques, you talk about registering people — that’s just wrong.”

The candidate who is currently seen as best positioned to absorb Mr. Trump’s supporters should they leave him, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, made a notable departure from what Mr. Trump said, remarking that he is “a big fan of Donald Trump’s, but I’m not a fan of government registries.”


----------



## Macfury

If Trump mean a Muslim database he would simply have said "yes." Dr. G., you are starting to see boogeymen under the bed. Trump made it clear that he does not favour such a database. The reporter was fishing for a big score against Trump that never materialized.



Dr.G. said:


> The reporter asks if there should be a Muslim database and he said that there should be a "lot of databases" and that his white house would implement this with "good management systems". These are his words, not mine. Listen to the clip.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> If Trump mean a Muslim database he would simply have said "yes." Dr. G., you are starting to see boogeymen under the bed. Trump made it clear that he does not favour such a database. The reporter was fishing for a big score against Trump that never materialized.



He did say yes when interviewed about it later in the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Only the reporter keeps talking about a "Muslim database." Trump continues to talk about his wall. They are talking about two entirely different things and Trump never mentions a "Muslim database." Trump says he would certainly implement a wall.
> 
> 
> 
> This is scandalously misleading reporting. Utterly shameful work.



Sure. Because a giant wall certainly doesn't reflect any hints of racism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

No it doesn't. It simply covers the territory through which most illegal aliens enter the US. The Secure Fence Act of 2006 already commits the US to building a 700-mile fence.



fjnmusic said:


> Sure. Because a giant wall certainly doesn't reflect any hints of racism.


----------



## fjnmusic

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/20/donald-trump-says-he-would-absolutely-implement-mu/

Sure sounds like an endorsement of a Muslim registry to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

As Trump did not say it, this is mere jockeying for position.



Dr.G. said:


> Former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida, who on CNBC, in response to Mr. Trump, said, “You talk about closing mosques, you talk about registering people — that’s just wrong.”
> 
> The candidate who is currently seen as best positioned to absorb Mr. Trump’s supporters should they leave him, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, made a notable departure from what Mr. Trump said, remarking that he is “a big fan of Donald Trump’s, but I’m not a fan of government registries.”


----------



## Macfury

It's the same fake story picked up by another source. They all go back to the same non-interview.



fjnmusic said:


> Donald Trump says he would 'absolutely' implement Muslim database - Washington Times
> 
> Sure sounds like an endorsement of a Muslim registry to me.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It's the same fake story picked up by another source. They all go back to the same non-interview.



Of course, Macfury. You are right and everyone else who was actually there and heard him is wrong. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's settled then.



fjnmusic said:


> Of course, Macfury. You are right and everyone else who was actually there and heard him is wrong.


----------



## FeXL

It's going to be a pleasure watching this thin-skinned narcisist go down in flames...

Clinton Goes after Laugh Factory Comedians for Making Fun of Her



> In what appears to be a first for a serious presidential contender, Hillary Clinton’s campaign is going after five comedians who made fun of the former Secretary of State in standup skits at a popular Hollywood comedy club.
> 
> A video of the short performance, which is less than three minutes, is posted on the website of the renowned club, Laugh Factory, and the Clinton campaign has tried to censor it. Besides demanding that the video be taken down, the Clinton campaign has demanded the personal contact information of the performers that appear in the recording. This is no laughing matter for club owner Jamie Masada, a comedy guru who opened Laugh Factory more than three decades ago and has been instrumental in launching the careers of many famous comics. *“They threatened me,” Masada told Judicial Watch. “I have received complains before but never a call like this, threatening to put me out of business if I don’t cut the video.”*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read.

Obama Wants to Defeat America, Not ISIS



> Last year at a NATO summit, Obama explicitly disavowed the idea of containing ISIS. "You can't contain an organization that is running roughshod through that much territory, causing that much havoc, displacing that many people, killing that many innocents, enslaving that many women," he said.
> 
> Instead he argued, "The goal has to be to dismantle them."
> 
> Just before the Paris massacre, Obama shifted back to containment. “From the start, our goal has been first to contain them, and we have contained them,” he said.
> 
> Pay no attention to what he said last year. There’s a new message now. Last year Obama was vowing to destroy ISIS. Now he had settled for containing them. And he couldn’t even manage that.


More:



> When reporters ask Obama how he plans to win the war, he smirks tiredly at them and launches into another condescending explanation about how the situation is far too complicated for anything as simple as bombs to work. Underneath that explanation is the belief that wars are unwinnable.
> 
> Obama knows that Americans won’t accept “war just doesn’t work” as an answer to Islamic terrorism. *So he demonstrates to them that wars don’t work by fighting wars that are meant to fail.*


----------



## Macfury

Unbelievable. Was this what it felt like at the fall of the Roman Empire?

Obama: Climate summit a 'powerful rebuke' to terrorists | TheHill



> President Obama declared Tuesday that next week’s climate change summit in Paris would be a “powerful rebuke” to terrorists, speaking alongside French President François Hollande at a joint news conference.
> 
> “Next week, I will be joining President Hollande and world leaders in Paris for the global climate conference,” Obama said during his prepared remarks, which focused mostly on the efforts to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
> 
> *“What a powerful rebuke to the terrorists it will be, when the world stands as one and shows that we will not be deterred from building a better future for our children,” he added.*


----------



## FeXL

What is it about politicians of all stripes & failing memories?

Chris Christie Bulls---s About Past Support for Gun Control



> Asked whether he got into politics to preserve New Jersey’s assault-weapons ban—a rough stance in today’s GOP presidential primary—the governor denied it, then said he didn’t remember.


Curious, that. Must be some sort of disease endemic to the profession. Save yourselves from Alzheimers, folks, don't become a politician. The pay & benefits are nice but losing your mind ain't worth it...


----------



## FeXL

Partisan Turkey Pardon

During Turkey Pardon, Obama Jokes About Republican ’Turkeys’ Running For President



> “As you may have heard, for months, there has been a fierce competition between a bunch of turkeys trying to win their way into the White House,” he said, pausing for recognition of his joke.
> 
> “Some of you caught that,” he added with a grin.


Must have been the paid shills in the audience...

More:



> He publicly thanked his daughters Sasha and Malia for appearing with him every year to pardon the turkey. “As you get older, you appreciate when your kids just indulge you like this,” he said reminding everyone that “Time flies, even if turkeys don’t,” he joked as his daughters laughed.
> 
> “That was good, that was good.” his oldest daughter Malia admitted with a grin.


Curious, that. If I had laid out a one-liner like that my children would have, rightfully, groaned.

Guess that's what happens when you don't have a teleprompter in from of you...


----------



## Macfury

What a presidential embarrassment:

Mike Morell: Obama Didn't Hit ISIS Oil Tankers & Wells To Avoid "Environmental Damage" | Video | RealClearPolitics



> Former CIA director under President Obama says that the President delayed striking ISIS oil fields and tankers to avoid environmental damage caused by the spilled oil.


----------



## CubaMark

*The GOP establishment knows that Trump is a disaster for their party....*

*What a Secret Memo to Top Republicans Says About Donald Trump*








National Republican Senatorial Committee executive director Ward Baker wrote a secret memo to top staff in late September on how to run their campaigns if the real estate mogul is at the top of the ticket, describing the current GOP frontrunner as “a misguided missile” who is “subject to farcical fits” and advising its candidates to avoid getting tied too closely to Trump.

“We should prepare for 2016 by understanding the environment and recognizing the Trump phenomenon,” Baker writes in the confidential memo. “Understand the populist point Trump makes and ride that wave.”

* * *​
“Let’s face facts,” the memo reads. “Trump says what’s on his mind and that’s a problem. Our candidates will have to spend full time defending him or condemning him if that continues. And that’s a place we never, ever want to be.”

* * *​
The memo also warns candidates to distance themselves from Trump’s comments about women.

“Houston, we have a problem: Donald Trump has said some wacky things about women,” he wrote. “Candidates shouldn’t go near this ground other than to say that your wife or daughter is offended by what Trump said.”​
(ABCnews)


----------



## Macfury

No, it's bad for GOP lobbyists--that's why they're angry.



CubaMark said:


> *The GOP establishment knows that Trump is a disaster for their party....*
> 
> *What a Secret Memo to Top Republicans Says About Donald Trump*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Republican Senatorial Committee executive director Ward Baker wrote a secret memo to top staff in late September on how to run their campaigns if the real estate mogul is at the top of the ticket, describing the current GOP frontrunner as “a misguided missile” who is “subject to farcical fits” and advising its candidates to avoid getting tied too closely to Trump.
> 
> “We should prepare for 2016 by understanding the environment and recognizing the Trump phenomenon,” Baker writes in the confidential memo. “Understand the populist point Trump makes and ride that wave.”
> 
> * * *​
> “Let’s face facts,” the memo reads. “Trump says what’s on his mind and that’s a problem. Our candidates will have to spend full time defending him or condemning him if that continues. And that’s a place we never, ever want to be.”
> 
> * * *​
> The memo also warns candidates to distance themselves from Trump’s comments about women.
> 
> “Houston, we have a problem: Donald Trump has said some wacky things about women,” he wrote. “Candidates shouldn’t go near this ground other than to say that your wife or daughter is offended by what Trump said.”​
> (ABCnews)


----------



## fjnmusic

If Trump is the best they have to offer, the Grand Ol' Party is in serious trouble. And that's just fine for us progressives.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

That's hilarious!!!

Hypocrite!!!

You intentionally include the comment here about women yet completely ignore & obfuscate the identical sexist issue in the post I made on the Refugee Thread!!!



CubaMark said:


> The memo also warns candidates to distance themselves from Trump’s comments about women.
> 
> “Houston, we have a problem: Donald Trump has said some wacky things about women,” he wrote. “Candidates shouldn’t go near this ground other than to say that your wife or daughter is offended by what Trump said.”


----------



## Vandave

fjnmusic said:


> If Trump is the best they have to offer, the Grand Ol' Party is in serious trouble. And that's just fine for us progressives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I say Trump beats Hillary if they give him the nomination. I've called every US election right for whatever that's worth.

Trump will get 100% of the Republican vote plus he will increase voter turnout by being an anti-establishment candidate. Hillary will have a tough time keeping her base.

Hillary cannot keep up with Trump and he'll throw so many curveballs at her that he really is her nightmare scenario.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> That's hilarious!!!
> 
> Hypocrite!!!
> 
> You intentionally include the comment here about women yet completely ignore & obfuscate the identical sexist issue in the post I made on the Refugee Thread!!!


Are you off your meds or something? Did you see me endorse or otherwise say that sexism was "okay"? Look at my posting history. I'm pretty sure my position on this, and pretty much anything else, is very clear.

If I ignore you, it's because I don't particularly like you. And attempting to debate you is a Sisyphean struggle... (lots of wasted effort, nothing gained by doing so).


----------



## CubaMark

Vandave said:


> I say Trump beats Hillary if they give him the nomination. I've called every US election right for whatever that's worth.


That may very well happen... and as much as the resulting chaos would be disastrous for the US and the rest of the globe, popcorn sales would go through the roof....


----------



## Rps

fjnmusic said:


> If Trump is the best they have to offer, the Grand Ol' Party is in serious trouble. And that's just fine for us progressives.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Frank I think the issue with the GOP is the same with the Ontario Progressive Conservatives....they don't know what they want to be!


----------



## FeXL

OK, lessee...

Ad hom, typical. Especially when you got nothing else to defend your position with...



CubaMark said:


> Are you off your meds or something?


Straw man argument, unrelated to my post.



CubaMark said:


> Did you see me endorse or otherwise say that sexism was "okay"? Look at my posting history. I'm pretty sure my position on this, and pretty much anything else, is very clear.


Red herring, nobody aid anything about ignoring me. It was about ignoring the topic I posted & your subsequent effort to obfuscate.

In addition, saying, "I don't like you" is not something I could currently state about you. I don't even know you. I see one small piece of a person on an online forum. I'm confident that you are much more than that but I would never claim that I know you based on that brief exposure. 

Yet you claim to know much about me. However, when pressed, nothing is ever delivered.

I find your debating skills weak. I find you frequently unable to defend your position. I find your political position curious. That is all.

I don't "don't like you".



CubaMark said:


> If I ignore you, it's because I don't particularly like you.


Finally! Something we agree upon. 

However, I suspect it has more to do with the fact that you simply have difficulty debating issues with facts without introducing ad hominems, straw man arguments, red herrings & obfuscation.



CubaMark said:


> And attempting to debate you is a Sisyphean struggle... (lots of wasted effort, nothing gained by doing so).


----------



## FeXL

Somebody gets it...

University president has had enough of self-absorbed students in need of safe spaces



> As American youth regress toward an infantile state of development, one university president has finally had enough of the nonsense. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, had a wake-up call recently that prompted him to write an open letter to the student body.
> 
> ...
> 
> So what happened that caused him to speak out against this madness? Per a report at TheBlaze:
> 
> “This past week, I actually had a student come forward after a university chapel service and complain because he felt ‘victimized’ by a sermon on the topic of 1 Corinthians 13,” Piper explained in his letter posted to the school’s website. “It appears that this young scholar felt offended because a homily on love made him feel bad for not showing love! In his mind, the speaker was wrong for making him, and his peers, feel uncomfortable.” (snip)
> 
> “I’m not making this up,” he continued. “Our culture has actually taught our kids to be this self-absorbed and narcissistic! Any time their feelings are hurt, they are the victims! Anyone who dares challenge them and, thus, makes them ‘feel bad’ about themselves, is a ‘hater,’ a ‘bigot,’ an ‘oppressor,’ and a ‘victimizer.’”
> 
> *Piper’s letter ended with: “This is not a day care. This is a university!”*


M'bold.

That, poor, poor progressive kid. The psychological scars will probably last a lifetime...


----------



## FeXL

Cartoons? Hey, we got them, too!


----------



## FeXL

More!


----------



## FeXL

And again!


----------



## SINC

.


----------



## CubaMark

With the idiocy coming out of Trump's mouth these days, I'm actually feeling nostalgic for the Sarah Palin comedy hour....


----------



## Macfury

His proposal should have extended to a temporary moratorium on ALL immigration.



CubaMark said:


> With the idiocy coming out of Trump's mouth these days, I'm actually feeling nostalgic for the Sarah Palin comedy hour....


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> His proposal should have extended to a temporary moratorium on ALL immigration.


*IF* he had done so, he might have avoided being labelled racist ("prejudiced"). But his true colours shone through. Not very Presidential thinking, that.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well. Looks what's come out in the wash...

US Military Was Ready To Respond To Benghazi During The Fighting



> American military forces were available for a rescue operation not long after the U.S. diplomatic facility in Benghazi, Libya, came under attack by terrorists Sept. 11, 2012, according to an email to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s closest aides.


And yet, this despicable human being is running for POTUS. Scarier is that there are people out there actually supporting her...


----------



## FeXL

Trusting Obamas And Clintons For National Security



> North Korea has a thermonuclear weapon. Twenty years ago, Bill Clinton announced the same deal with North Korea that Barack Obama just made with Iran.


Chickens, roost...


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting

"Cruz has largely built his program out of his Houston headquarters, where a team of statisticians and behavioral psychologists who subscribe to the *burgeoning practice of “psycho*graphic targeting” built their own version of a Myers-Briggs personality test. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...33e3288_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_headlines


----------



## FeXL

Frightening.

DHS: We Have No Idea How Many Syrian Refugees Are In The US



> A senior official at the Department of Homeland Security admitted the agency has no clue how many Syrian refugees have entered the United States in the past year, while under fire in an intense congressional hearing Thursday.
> 
> Kelli Ann Burriesci, deputy assistant secretary at DHS, told the House Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee DHS doesn’t know how many Syrians entered the United States or how many Americans left the United States for Syria in the past year, reported The Washington Free Beacon.
> 
> That answer did not please members of the National Security subcommittee, who had asked DHS to send Secretary Jeh Johnson to testify, but were sent Burriesci instead. Many of their questions went unanswered, to their apparent frustration.


----------



## FeXL

Curious that the progressives on this board tacitly endorse, via their silence, the assassination of Trump supporters...

When The Truth Would Do



> I broke a story on the Daily Caller about a board member of the Colorado ACLU who called for Donald Trump supporters to be shot.


Further:



> ..._t seems to have become oddly consequence-free for liberals to speak about Trump in this way. The “If you are voting for him I will have to shoot you before election day” part struck me as not particularly “civil.”_


_



CubaMark said:



On one hand, it's quite telling how so few of the right-wingers in here are sufficiently concerned at assassination chatter. Their silence speaks volumes.:

Click to expand...

_


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Curious that the progressives on this board tacitly endorse, via their silence, the assassination of Trump supporters...:


Oh, the crocodile tears you weep....

The difference, as you well know, is that in the previous case - of right-wingers calling for Notley's assassination - the story was widely reported.

The "Daily Caller" is far from "widely" reported.

But if it makes you feel better, on behalf of all 'progressives', I think it's outrageous that someone would want to kill Trump supporters.

Encourage them to embrace family planning / invest in a good condom supply / consider mental health counselling - now that I would support....


----------



## FeXL

No tears. Just highlighting the hypocrisy.



CubaMark said:


> Oh, the crocodile tears you weep....


I jes' luvs it when you underscore my points for me.

EXACTLY! The MSM will turn a mouse fart into an 8.0 earthquake as long as it targets the right. They will go into contortions covering up & protecting the left...



CubaMark said:


> The difference, as you well know, is that in the previous case - of right-wingers calling for Notley's assassination - the story was widely reported.
> 
> The "Daily Caller" is far from "widely" reported.


Why am I not surprised that you would recommend utilizing a "service" that illegally deals in harvested foetus parts...



CubaMark said:


> Encourage them to embrace family planning...


----------



## FeXL

Politically Correct, by definition, is plain, old, stupid. It only varies by degree.

US school stops teaching Huckleberry Finn because of 'use of the N-word'



> Mark Twain’s novel The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn has been removed from the curriculum at a school in Philadelphia after its administration decided that “the community costs of reading this book in 11th grade outweigh the literary benefits”.
> 
> The classic American novel tells the story of Huck Finn, the boy first met in The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, who escapes from his alcoholic father by faking his own death and meets runaway slave Jim. Ernest Hemingway said that “all modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn”. But the novel, first published in 1884, is also one of the “most-challenged of all time”, according to the American Library Association, which collates such efforts to remove books from library shelves.


And, no surprise, Philly is, you guessed it, Democratic...


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/RepresentUs/videos/1068026056544598/

True then ............. true now.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Why am I not surprised that you would recommend utilizing a "service" that illegally deals in harvested foetus parts...


How many hours did you spend poring over those videos that 'incriminated' Planned Parenthood, showing how it sold foetus parts for $$? Did you hit rewind a dozen times, burning the scenes into your brain?

Did you, by chance, happen to catch any of the creative edits used to doctor the videos?

Did you, I wonder, bother to read *ANY* of the news coverage that exposed this scandal for the blatant lie that it is?

Or are you content to wallow in your_ ignoramus self-righteousness_?

Seriously. Your track record for anything approaching reality remains on the low side of zip-nada-uh-uh.

This story has been refuted multiple times over, but here's a new one just to make sure you get it through your thick skull:

_Ohio just became the ninth state to announce that it found *no evidence* Planned Parenthood makes illegal profits off fetal tissue donation — or "sells baby parts," as a series of anti-abortion videos sensationally put it this summer. Various state and federal investigations still *haven't found anything to substantiate those claims.*_​
(Vox)


----------



## Macfury

Are you saying Planned Parenthood does not sell the parts of unborn humans "for $$." Are you prepared to stick by that? Or do you see anything wrong with it if they did?



CubaMark said:


> How many hours did you spend poring over those videos that 'incriminated' Planned Parenthood, showing how it sold foetus parts for $$? Did you hit rewind a dozen times, burning the scenes into your brain?
> 
> Did you, by chance, happen to catch any of the creative edits used to doctor the videos?
> 
> Did you, I wonder, bother to read *ANY* of the news coverage that exposed this scandal for the blatant lie that it is?
> 
> Or are you content to wallow in your_ ignoramus self-righteousness_?
> 
> Seriously. Your track record for anything approaching reality remains on the low side of zip-nada-uh-uh.
> 
> This story has been refuted multiple times over, but here's a new one just to make sure you get it through your thick skull:
> 
> _Ohio just became the ninth state to announce that it found *no evidence* Planned Parenthood makes illegal profits off fetal tissue donation — or "sells baby parts," as a series of anti-abortion videos sensationally put it this summer. Various state and federal investigations still *haven't found anything to substantiate those claims.*_​
> (Vox)


----------



## MacGuiver

Of course its been refuted by the abortion pumping leftist government and media. They were busy discrediting the videos before they even watched them. Like asking a holocaust denier to report the goings on at Auschwitz.


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> Of course its been refuted by the abortion pumping leftist government and media. They were busy discrediting the videos before they even watched them. Like asking a holocaust denier to report the goings on at Auschwitz.


Nobody impugns the sacrament of "progressivism!"


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Are you saying Planned Parenthood does not sell the parts of unborn humans "for $$." Are you prepared to stick by that? Or do you see anything wrong with it if they did?


From the evidence to date, PP does not appear to be selling "the parts of unborn humans 'for $$'." And given the lack of credibility of those who brought forth the charges, I would expect that will not change (emphasis added):

*Republicans* on the House Energy and Commerce Committee opened an investigation of Planned Parenthood in July after the Center for Medical Progress, an anti-abortion group, began posting online secretly recorded videos. The center claims the videos show that Planned Parenthood affiliates illegally profit from selling tissue from aborted fetuses to researchers and, in some late-term abortions, prevent a possible live birth.

Planned Parenthood denies the charges and says that* the videos were deceptively and misleadingly edited*.

The analysis was by Fusion GPS, a Washington-based research and corporate intelligence company, and its co-founder Glenn Simpson, a former investigative reporter for The Wall Street Journal.

The videos, *recorded by two activists posing as representatives of a biotechnology firm *procuring tissue for researchers and universities, continue to be released online about once a week. One of the activists, David Daleiden of California, told The New York Times last month that his “thousands of hours of videotape” was enough to release videos into the fall. That will coincide with Congress’s final budget debate, and the videos have stoked growing Republican threats of a government shutdown unless Planned Parenthood is stripped of about $500 million it gets annually, mostly to care for low-income Medicaid patients. By law, public funds cannot pay for abortions.

The analysis commissioned by Planned Parenthood covers the first four videos and transcripts from the Center for Medical Progress, which were recorded in California, Colorado and Texas. Several have been released since with footage repeated from earlier videos, though the most recent ones focus not on Planned Parenthood but on a company, StemExpress, that procures fetal and human tissue globally for research.

*The reviewers looked both at edited videos that are about eight minutes to 15 minutes long and at what Mr. Daleiden said were full-length recordings, some more than two hours long,* that he released simultaneously.

A transcription service was hired to transcribe the videos, without being told that Planned Parenthood was the client, to compare with transcripts publicized by *the anti-abortion group*. That comparison,* the analysis said, showed “substantive omissions” in the group’s version.* Mr. Simpson was assisted in the* analysis by several others, including a video forensics expert,* Grant Fredericks, and a television producer, Scott Goldie.

According to the investigation, the reviewers could not determine “the extent to which C.M.P.’s undisclosed edits and cuts distort the meaning of the encounters the videos purport to document.”

But, it said, *“the manipulation of the videos does mean they have no evidentiary value in a legal context and cannot be relied upon for any official inquiries” *unless C.M.P. provides investigators with its original material, and that material is independently authenticated as unaltered.

For example, Mr. Fredericks said *recordings in Houston and Denver were each missing about 30 minutes of video*, judging from time stamps and frame counters on the recordings.
(NYTimes)​


----------



## MacGuiver

In reality, selling the unborn child's body parts isn't the big issue. The fact they were murdered and their parts are available is the moral issue. If someone can watch those tapes and listen to those butchers describe their "harvesting" techniques while sipping wine and the only thing that could possibly trigger outrage and horror would be finding out they sell baby parts, that person is morally bankrupt. It would be the equivalent of getting mad at the Nazis for taking gold teeth and eye glasses while being super supportive of sending jews to the gas chambers.


----------



## CubaMark

If only opponents of abortion dedicated a 10th of a percent of their outrage to addressing the causes of unwanted pregnancies: lack of healthcare, sexual education, poverty, untreated addictions... but no, the conservative, religious, anti-abortionists seem to be genetically incapable of seeing cause and effect (deeply held anti-science bias?). Everything that happens, every decision taken, occurs in a vacuum, and is entirely an issue of one's inability to exert 'self control'. 

And that's why right-wing god-abiding wingnuts shoot up Planned Parenthood, an organization that - in addition to providing abortion services where legal (so the real fault lies with the lawmakers, doesn't it?) - also provides family planning education, STD counselling, women's reproductive health services, etc.

What an odd bloody country.


----------



## Macfury

That's your excuse for killing the baby?



CubaMark said:


> If only opponents of abortion dedicated a 10th of a percent of their outrage to addressing the causes of unwanted pregnancies: lack of healthcare, sexual education, poverty, untreated addictions... but no, the conservative, religious, anti-abortionists seem to be genetically incapable of seeing cause and effect (deeply held anti-science bias?). Everything that happens, every decision taken, occurs in a vacuum, and is entirely an issue of one's inability to exert 'self control'.
> 
> And that's why right-wing god-abiding wingnuts shoot up Planned Parenthood, an organization that - in addition to providing abortion services where legal (so the real fault lies with the lawmakers, doesn't it?) - also provides family planning education, STD counselling, women's reproductive health services, etc.
> 
> What an odd bloody country.


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> If only opponents of abortion dedicated a 10th of a percent of their outrage to addressing the causes of unwanted pregnancies: lack of healthcare, sexual education, poverty, untreated addictions...


Conservative groups (especially churches) are the ones who are out there doing the most about those very things -- far more than progressives ever do.


----------



## MacGuiver

heavyall said:


> Conservative groups (especially churches) are the ones who are out there doing the most about those very things -- far more than progressives ever do.


Yeah progressives often roll out this fictitious meme when confronted over their support for the evil of abortion. If not for efforts of "religious fanatics", hospitals, shelters and food banks would be a rare find in this country.
As far as anti-science goes, you only have to listen to the verbal gymnastics an advocate for abortion will go through trying to dehumanize an unborn child to justify their murder. For them the science is settled, you're not human until you've fully exited the birth canal. There's some sound science for ya.


----------



## fjnmusic

We have just entered thread Twilight Zone. This stuff is just too ridiculous to even dignify with a considered comment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MacGuiver

fjnmusic said:


> We have just entered thread Twilight Zone. This stuff is just too ridiculous to even dignify with a considered comment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. Supporting the killing of unborn children while claiming to hold the moral high ground is Twilight Zone material.


----------



## fjnmusic

MacGuiver said:


> I agree. Supporting the killing of unborn children while claiming to hold the moral high ground is Twilight Zone material.



I think it's a travesty these are not legally children until the umbilical cord is cut and they can breathe on their own. Not just because of my Catholic upbringing, but because in my mind, a human being is a human being. I am not against abortion entirely, but I do believe it should be a last resort, not a means of birth control. And I DO believe it's a woman's right to choose—but she should be fully informed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

So, the backstory is that there is this school in Virginia that was having some of their students practice their calligraphy by drawing the Arabic for "There is no god but Allah".

Curiously, the whole school district, not just the aforementioned school, is shutting down due to the fallout from concerned parents & citizens.

School That Forced Students To Write "There Is No God But Allah" to Shut Down Tomorrow, Citing "Tone" of Reaction to Their Strange Curriculum--Shutting Down The _Whole District_

Ace presents a theoretical discussion with the powers that be:



> Us: You shouldn't make kids write "Allah is god," the same as I assume you would never make them write "Jesus is Lord."
> 
> *Them: But this was in Arabic. They didn't know what they were writing.
> 
> Us: They found out pretty quick.* Would you make Muslim kids write "Jesus is Lord"--
> 
> Them: But we didn't tell them what they were writing!
> 
> Us: You didn't let me finish: Would you make Muslim kids write "Jesus is Lord" in Latin? "Dominum Iesum?" How's that hit you? Does that touch you someplace special?
> 
> Them: ...
> 
> Us: Or how about in Ancient Greek? Or in Aramaic? Or even -- God forbid -- Hebrew?
> 
> Them: That's different.
> 
> Us: In what way?
> 
> Them: ...
> 
> Us: The real difference is that you feel that you may and should pummel Christian kids into being "open minded" about faiths not their own, but you'd be very protective of Muslim kids' religions autonomy wouldn't you?
> 
> Them: ---
> 
> Us: Are you going to answer?
> 
> Them: We're shutting down the school. The Tone of this discussion just proves how important it is to be open to learning about Islam.
> 
> Us: This sure seems like an attempt to claim victim status when you're the one crossing lines.
> 
> Them: Help! Help! I'm being microaggressed!


M'bold.

Nails it.

Yep. I can entirely imagine that being the exact conversation being held...


----------



## FeXL

So, the release of more Gitmo prisoners is planned. Guess they haven't learned the lesson from earlier releases yet...

Pentagon proposing big release of Gitmo detainees



> A congressional aide confirmed to FoxNews.com on Thursday that the Pentagon has floated to lawmakers the possibility of transferring another 17 detainees. *The aide said lawmakers will be briefed on the plan Friday -- while voicing concern that the strategy is to reduce the prison camp population to "as low as they can get," even if it involves "a good deal of risk."*


M'bold.

Brilliant...


----------



## FeXL

Further on failed foreign policy.

Hagel: The White House Tried to ‘Destroy’ Me



> Jet-lagged from a long overseas trip, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had just sat down with his wife for a quiet dinner at an upscale Italian restaurant in northern Virginia when his phone rang. It was the White House on the line. President Barack Obama wanted to speak with him.
> 
> It was Aug. 30, 2013, and the U.S. military was poised for war. Obama had publicly warned Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad that his regime would face consequences if it crossed a “red line” by employing chemical weapons against its own people. Assad did it anyway, and Hagel had spent the day approving final plans for a barrage of Tomahawk cruise missile strikes against Damascus. U.S. naval destroyers were in the Mediterranean, awaiting orders to fire.
> 
> Instead, Obama told a stunned Hagel to stand down. Assad’s Aug. 21 chemical attack in a Damascus suburb had killed hundreds of civilians, but the president said the United States wasn’t going to take any military action against the Syrian government. The president had decided to ignore his own red line — a decision, Hagel believes, that dealt a severe blow to the credibility of both Obama and the United States.


More:



> The White House’s penchant for meddling was a frequent problem, Hagel said. Dempsey complained that *White House staffers were calling generals “and asking fifth-level questions that the White House should not be involved in,”* he said.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Once again, Rex nails it.

Rex Murphy: Don’t blame Trump … blame America



> Is his candidacy more lunatic than the idea of a third President Bush or a second President Clinton? More despairing than the idea of an America so bereft of political talent that two families supply the major pool?
> 
> Is he more manipulative than President “you can keep you doctor, you can keep you plan” Obama? Is he less venal or arrogant than Hillary “it’s my server and it’s my State Department” Clinton?
> 
> Is his candidacy less perplexing than parts of the Democratic party’s fixations? Is it less lunatic that the spectacle of a former governor, Martin O’Malley — one of the few Democrats wandering the no-man’s land of opposition to the Hillary machine — apologizing, more than once, for asserting out loud that “all lives matter”? The Democrats have drilled so deep into the factionalism and demagoguery of identity politics — sexual and ethnic — that any appeal to universalism, any echo of the greatest phrase in the Declaration of Independence — “all men are created equal” — is now toxic? Donald Trump may be annoying, but he has said or done nothing that equals the fatuousness of a system in which the claim that all lives matter is seen as a troubling deviancy?


In a word, no...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


>


Exactly. 15 out of 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but we dare not bite the hand that feeds us....or controls our economy through supply and demand for oil.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. 15 out of 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but we dare not bite the hand that feeds us....or controls our economy through supply and demand for oil.


Most oil could be supplied domestically now. Saudi Arabia is on the outs. Of course they fear Alberta's windmills more I hear.


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. 15 out of 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but we dare not bite the hand that feeds us....or controls our economy through supply and demand for oil.


True if you can make yourself swallow the official story. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwkye-aAwqA


----------



## fjnmusic

eMacMan said:


> True if you can make yourself swallow the official story.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwkye-aAwqA



Well when you put it that way.... 

To this day I cannot understand why a 47 story tower like WTC7 would spontaneously come crashing to the ground, not having been hit and suffering only fire damage, and why two jets would crash into the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania leaving no debris behind. Just doesn't make any sense. 

But hold on; I think I spy some regular ehMac right wing apologists coming to explain to me why I am wrong again. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

I am still trying to wrap my head around how the true believers can believe that the Bush Administration with its unblemished record of lying at every opportunity, magically did a 180 and told the truth about 9/11.


----------



## Macfury

Of everything you said, this part makes the most sense to me.

"To this day I cannot understand..."

It's pretty funny that you demand union credentials of anyone talking about a union--but you're damn solid on engineering because you can't understand something.

Have you bought a new tinfoil hat for 2016?



fjnmusic said:


> Well when you put it that way....
> 
> To this day I cannot understand why a 47 story tower like WTC7 would spontaneously come crashing to the ground, not having been hit and suffering only fire damage, and why two jets would crash into the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania leaving no debris behind. Just doesn't make any sense.
> 
> But hold on; I think I spy some regular ehMac right wing apologists coming to explain to me why I am wrong again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Solid enough to know that when a building that should not have collapsed does and the evidence is carted away without careful review, something is very fishy indeed. Either you have a deliberate demolition, very faulty building design, or extremely corrupt contractors. Any and all of those would warrant a careful investigation rather than a blatant cover-up. 

Especially when the computer program that is purported to show it was remotely possible is classified top secret, so competent engineers are unable to review even that! Anyone that buys that barge load of crap cannot possibly deny the validity of the AGW computer models.

And we haven't even mentioned the Cheney gang conveniently scheduling a drill, for something they claimed they believed no one would ever do, to exactly coincide with the attacks.


----------



## Macfury

New in headwear fabrics this year:


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> New in headwear fabrics this year:


Tin foil hats for those who refuse to buy into a very absurd conspiracy theory. That's rich and a pretty good sign that you have nothing that would back your support of the wildest 9/11 conspiracy theory of the bunch!


----------



## FeXL

One for the plus column.

Cruz says he would withdraw U.S. from Paris climate accord if elected



> Sen. Ted Cruz, who has questioned the existence of global warming, said Tuesday that if he were elected president, he would withdraw the United States from the landmark climate agreement reached in Paris earlier this month.
> 
> "Barack Obama seems to think the SUV parked in your driveway is a bigger threat to national security than radical Islamic terrorists who want to kill us. That’s just nutty," Cruz told reporters in a high school classroom here. "These are ideologues, they don’t focus on the facts, they won’t address the facts, and what they’re interested [in] instead is more and more government power."


----------



## eMacMan

The official 9/11 conspiracy theory suffered yet another massive set back.

Seems this tower in Dubai which suffered massive fire damage resolutely refused to collapse at freefall rate into its own foot print. Somewhere even the most faithful of believers should start to have doubts.

Dubai probes New Year's Eve hotel blaze - Al Jazeera English


----------



## Macfury

It's only a conspiracy when you talk about it, eMacMan. To the rest of us it was a fire.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It's only a conspiracy when you talk about it, eMacMan. To the rest of us it was a fire.


Yep a fire which did what no other fire has ever done. Brought down a concrete and steel office tower (WTC-7) in a perfect imitation of a controlled demolition. I do admire your ability to blindly accept the 9/11 propaganda from the very same sources that are vigorously promoting the AGW Global Warming scam as irrefutable science. As for me I am no longer that trusting.


----------



## fjnmusic

eMacMan said:


> Yep a fire which did what no other fire has ever done. Brought down a concrete and steel office tower (WTC-7) in a perfect imitation of a controlled demolition. I do admire your ability to blindly accept the 9/11 propaganda from the very same sources that are vigorously promoting the AGW Global Warming scam as irrefutable science. As for me I am no longer that trusting.



That's a hella fire! It also somehow made two planes disappear into a) the ground, or b) the side of the Pentagon. No debris, no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no luggage, no bodies—nothing to recover at either crash site. Did!'t crash and sink to the bottom of the ocean—and even that turned up some debris many months later. 

It's the damndest thing, what happened that day, when the country with the best defenders ON THE PLANET couldn't defend itself from 19 mainly Saudi Arabians hijackers armed only with box cutters and plastic knives. 

Makes you wonder they could have accomplished if they really did have weapons of mass destruction....like the US has. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Very, very interesting...

BREAKING POLL: 40% of Blacks Line Up Behind Trump – 45% of Hispanics



> Pundits might point to billionaire Donald Trump’s huge lead in the GOP presidential primary race as being the result of his generally anti-Washington, anti-government, anti-establishment, anti-politically correct attitude.
> 
> If so, it’s not just whites who are ticked at the bureaucracy, but minorities too.


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Spying on Congress and Israel: NSA Cheerleaders Discover Value of Privacy Only When Their Own Is Violated



> In January 2014, I debated Rep. Hoekstra about NSA spying and he could not have been more mocking and dismissive of the privacy concerns I was invoking. “Spying is a matter of fact,” he scoffed. As Andrew Krietz, the journalist who covered that debate, reported, Hoekstra “laughs at foreign governments who are shocked they’ve been spied on because they, too, gather information” — referring to anger from German and Brazilian leaders. As _TechDirt_ noted, “Hoekstra attacked a bill called the RESTORE Act, that would have granted a tiny bit more oversight over situations where (you guessed it) the NSA was collecting information on Americans.”
> 
> But all that, of course, was before Hoekstra knew that he and his Israeli friends were swept up in the spying of which he was so fond. Now that he knows that it is _his privacy and those of his comrades_ that has been invaded, he is no longer cavalier about it. In fact, he’s so furious that this long-time NSA cheerleader is actually calling for the _criminal prosecution_ of the NSA and Obama officials for the _crime of spying on him and his friends._


Italics from the link.

Amazing what lights a simple dose of perspective can switch on...


----------



## FeXL

Hillary Clinton: Aliens May Have Visited Us Already; Vows to Get to the Bottom of UFOs



> Jon Podhoretz said, correctly, that if any Republican candidate had said this, it would be screaming news all over every dial and website -- a perfect Otherizing story illustrating the strange, anti-scientific beliefs of Republicans.
> 
> *You remember how much play Ben Carson's speculations about pyramid granaries got.
> 
> But Hillary Clinton says it, so it's just a story about a politician interested in citizen concerns.*


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

Somebody Tell Hillary… ISIS Recruitment Video Featured Bill Clinton the “Fornicator”



> At the Democratic Party debate on Saturday night, Hillary Clinton falsely claimed that Donald Trump is being used in ISIS recruitment videos.
> 
> The media tried to shrug it off, even after the claim was proven false.
> 
> There is an ISIS recruitment video which features a prominent American politician, but it’s not Donald Trump. It’s Hillary’s husband, Bill Clinton.


----------



## SINC

North Dakota Names Landfill After Obama - The Daily Currant - The Daily Currant

Hehehe


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> North Dakota Names Landfill After Obama - The Daily Currant - The Daily Currant
> 
> Hehehe


Sadly it's only satire.


----------



## heavyall

SINC said:


> North Dakota Names Landfill After Obama - The Daily Currant - The Daily Currant
> 
> Hehehe


Damn, that whole site is hilarious. Thanks for the link!


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> Sadly it's only satire.


Yep, thus the Hehehe



heavyall said:


> Damn, that whole site is hilarious. Thanks for the link!


I thought so too.


----------



## FeXL

So, CM, reach deep, deep down inside & try to address the facts of this issue, rather than making _ad hom._ attacks on the messenger...

Coulter Lambastes Media Over Epstein Rape Case: This Is What Media Thought UVA Rape Case Was



> Ann Coulter says the Epstein rape case is "not just a Clinton sex scandal," but the "elites" "covering up and protecting one another."
> 
> "This is what MSNBC and the rest of the networks have been describing what they thought these fraternities, what they thought the [Duke] lacrosse rape [case was]," Coulter said on FOX News' Hannity. This is the elites circling the wagon and protecting a pederast. It's a shocking case and that's just the known facts."


Related:

The sweetheart deal for Bill Clinton's Orgy Island pal may be exposed and overturned



> Tick, tick, tick…the highly suspicious deal that gave Bill Clinton’s billionaire buddy Jeffrey Epstein a slap on the wrist for paying underage girls for sex may finally be subjected to pubic scrutiny and even overturned, bringing with it the possibility of bargaining against real punishment in exchange for testimony against a bigger fish. This development is thanks to a court filing on the last day of 2015 that received only limited local publicity. More on that in a moment.
> 
> Shockingly, the deal that handed out token punishment to the statutory rapist has been hidden from the public and from the victims themselves


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Dem's front runner for President.

Hillary’s EmailGate Goes Nuclear



> Back in October I told you that Hillary Clinton’s email troubles were anything but over, and that the scandal over her misuse of communications while she was Secretary of State was sure to get worse. Sure enough, EmailGate continues to be a thorn in the side of Hillary’s presidential campaign and may have just entered a new, potentially explosive phase with grave ramifications, both political and legal.
> 
> The latest court-ordered dump of her email, just placed online by the State Department, brings more troubles for Team Hillary. This release of over 3,000 pages includes 66 “Unclassified” messages that the State Department subsequently determined actually were classified; however, all but one of those 66 were deemed Confidential, the lowest classification level, while one was found to be Secret, bringing the total of Secret messages discovered so far to seven. In all, 1,340 Hillary emails at State have been reassessed as classified.


Why this despicable human being is anywhere but the State Pen is beyond me. Oh, forgot, she's a Democrat...


----------



## FeXL

Donald Trump: Carnage Recruiter



> I suppose the best I can say is that Muslim apologists are like Sisyphus without the curse of retention or cognizance. After every incident of Muslim terror, the apologists reassure us that there is no pathology, no pattern, no problem. That café could have just as easily been shot up by the Amish; the folks at that Christmas party would probably have been butchered by Buddhists anyway. By an arbitrary role of the dice, by pure random chance, this time it was Muslims committing the crime.
> 
> I’ve written about the apologists before, but in the past few weeks, there’s been an interesting new addition to their canon. We’re already familiar with the apologists’ first two mindlessly repeated articles of faith:
> 
> (1) There is nothing uniquely Islamic about Muslim terror. The Muslim community is no more predisposed to committing acts of terror than any other religious, ethnic, or racial group.
> 
> (2) In the U.S., the _real_ terror threat comes from Christian white guys, but everyone is too racist to see it because _something something_ Fox News _something something_ Koch brothers _something something_ Bush.


Further:



> Here’s the new talking point, repeated again and again by newsmakers over the past two weeks: _Donald Trump is the top recruiter for ISIS._ We heard it from Hillary Clinton, Andrew Cuomo, Ted Koppel, and Tom Brokaw, among many others. The gist is, *Trump’s “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States” comment is “making” Muslims join ISIS. Trump’s suggestion of a blanket ban is enough to make Muslims say, “To hell with my life, my family, my job…I’m going to join ISIS, because Donald Trump made a sweeping, indiscriminate generalization devoid of nuance.”*
> 
> So much for the “Muslims are as afraid of ISIS as we are” talking point. Apparently, all it takes to get Muslims to sign up for a life of terrorism is one speech by a wealthy reality-show star who holds no office.


M'bold.

Yep.

Good read.


----------



## FeXL

Breaking from the U.S., the U.K. Condemns the Muslim Brotherhood, Calling It a Terrorist Group



> Following an intensive 18-month governmental study, the United Kingdom issued a startling indictment of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). It described the organization as fiercely anti-democratic, openly supportive of terrorism, dedicated to establishing an Islamist government, and opposed to the rule of law, individual liberty, and equality.
> 
> We use the word “startling” not because this is news but because, in such a politically correct world, it took guts for a world leader to acknowledge the obvious about a movement that purports to represent more than a billion people. *If anyone at all — in particular our own president, former secretary of state, and high priesthood of political correctness, the New York Times — had simply bothered to read the Brotherhood’s own words, they would have inescapably reached the same conclusion.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Texas Governor Greg Abbott Calls for Convention of the States to Reclaim Power Wrongfully Assumed by Federal Government



> _"If we are going to fight for, protect and hand on to the next generation, the freedom that [President] Reagan spoke of...then we have to take the lead to restore the rule of law in America," Abbott said during a speech at the Texas Public Policy Foundation’s Policy Orientation that drew raucous applause from the conservative audience. He said he will ask lawmakers to pass a bill authorizing Texas to join other states calling for a Convention of States.
> 
> Along with the speech, Abbott released a nearly 70-page plan -- part American civics lesson, part anti-Obama diatribe -- detailing nine proposed constitutional amendments that he said would unravel the federal government’s decades-long power grab and restore authority over economic regulation and other matters to the states.
> 
> "The irony for our generation is that the threat to our Republic doesn't come just from foreign enemies, it comes, in part, from our very own leaders," Abbott said in a speech that took aim at President Obama, Congress and the judicial branch.​_


More:



> I see this as vital in both senses -- vital in the sense of "necessary," and vital in the sense of "demonstrating a healthy amount of life and energy."
> 
> A participatory democracy must be both democratic and, well, participatory. The Big Picture sketch of the evolution of government of the last 80 years is to make government remote and controlled not by citizens but by a specialized, inbreeding class -- the civil service and management class -- which has its own insular class mores and class goals and has its own strong class interest.
> 
> It is time to take power back away from them and return it to the hands of those the Constitution says will wield ultimate political power: Us. The actual citizens. The American people generally, and not some weird inbred, intermarrying Government Caste.
> 
> The more power this caste as robbed from the people, the more the people themselves have been sapped of energy, initiative, and, frankly, virtue.
> 
> A free people is an energetic, vital, virtuous people.


Excellent read.


----------



## eMacMan

Deering sums it up nicely!


----------



## Rps

Just thought I would throw a little gas on this flame.....the U.S. has aspects of democratic principles, as do we, but the U.S. is not a democracy.....it is a Republic....there is a difference, and one I am sure the GOP front runners would not endorse. If we look at how the big boys have been chirping on the campaign trail, somewhere Marx is smiling.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> ...somewhere Marx is smiling.


Sure, Hillary's campaign is completely compatible with his views.


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that.

Slimeball Leftists Update



> When Obama cries, Politico calls it “forceful”
> 
> ...
> 
> When John Boehner cried, Politico said “beware of men who cry”


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News just booted Sen. Rand Paul from the next main Republican debate. Personally, I don't think that this is fair, in that some who have been excluded have a specific political POV, and should be included under "the big tent".


----------



## FeXL

Trump, Muslim Immigration, and Terrorism



> Candidate Donald Trump has called for the United States to bar all Muslims from entering the country until the nation’s leaders can “figure out what is going on”. Saying that “hatred” among many Muslims for Americans is “beyond comprehension,” Mr. Trump said in a statement that the United States needed to confront “where this hatred comes from and why...” “Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life,” Mr. Trump said.


Further:



> Besides the history of Muslim terrorist acts, many Muslims, here and abroad, are believed to look favorably on Jihad and even the actions of Muslim terrorists. As Eli Litman wrote in a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal (12/14/15):
> 
> _The fact that mass demonstrations occurred throughout the Muslim world after the Danish Muhammad cartoon incident, but not after any of the dozens of large-scale terror attacks .. is an indirect indication of what is approved of and what is not. Even the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation of 57 member states) refused to condemn terrorism, labelling it as “acts of resistance” in the aftermath of 9/11 and ever since.
> 
> *Nor is the mass support of terrorism confined to Islamic Nations; there were no visible Muslim participants in the solidarity marches in France after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, nor have the European Muslim communities who had organized so many anti-American demonstrations before both the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions, managed even a single march to condemn any of the mass killings in the name of their religion.*​_


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

I don't like the rules as they currently apply, Dr. G.--but where do you cut it off? Jim Gilmore is at least a recognizable name but has not even been considered for the undercard. In a sense, allowing the networks to set the rules also gives them power to deliberately prevent certain voices from being heard.

On the other hand, both parties have at least 100 contenders for the nomination. How would you decide, Dr.G.?




Dr.G. said:


> Fox News just booted Sen. Rand Paul from the next main Republican debate. Personally, I don't think that this is fair, in that some who have been excluded have a specific political POV, and should be included under "the big tent".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't like the rules as they currently apply, Dr. G.--but where do you cut it off? Jim Gilmore is at least a recognizable name but has not even been considered for the undercard. In a sense, allowing the networks to set the rules also gives them power to deliberately prevent certain voices from being heard.
> 
> On the other hand, both parties have at least 100 contenders for the nomination. How would you decide, Dr.G.?


Not sure I have an answer, Macfury. We could just let them buy a seat at the debate, and thus, open it up to SuperPac support money choosing what views we get to hear. Or, we could just let the person that could raise the most money be the candidate, and by-pass the primaries and conventions. Personally, I feel that most just ignore the questions they are given and thus, it is not a true debate, but rather, an exercise in how quickly each candidate can spin to their talking points ............. or insult their opponents. Sad ................


----------



## Rps

The trouble that I see is the GOP allows too many candidates to run. In a way it dilutes their strength as it Pitts one view against the other. However if you are going to allow anyone with a pulse to run, they should be allowed to debate. Where else would you see the VP candidate perform.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The trouble that I see is the GOP allows too many candidates to run. In a way it dilutes their strength as it Pitts one view against the other. However if you are going to allow anyone with a pulse to run, they should be allowed to debate. Where else would you see the VP candidate perform.


As I mentioned, there are no limits on the number of people who can run. At least 100 people are running in both parties. They can't all come up on stage--however the rule imposed by each network can potentially make or break a down-list candidate.


----------



## FeXL

Isn't that curious...

Kelly McParland: Special treatment given to Kenyan pipeline flies in the face of U.S. position on Keystone



> A new twist has developed in the convoluted history of the Keystone XL pipeline with reports that, even while rejecting the Canadian project, the U.S. has been working with Kenya to finance a similar proposal.
> 
> The PowerAfrika project would stretch 900 km from Lokichar in northern Kenya to the port of Lamu on the Indian Ocean. *It would run through the Great Rift Valley, an environmentally sensitive area that is a crucial habitat for endangered species and a source of essential tourist revenue.*


Further:



> Rather than condemn the plan as a danger to the environment, the U.S. has pledged to help raise US$18 billion to see it through. Reports from Nairobi indicate that the U.S. ambassador, Robert Godec, met with Kenyan energy secretary Alfred Keter a week ago to offer Washington’s support.


Guess he can't say no to his Mother country...


----------



## FeXL

I've always been interested in the details of the Kennedy assassination. And, I've never been entirely convinced the whole truth has ever come to light. That said, I don't subscribe to some vast conspiracy theory, either. The narrative just comes across as...incomplete, somehow.

CIA Admits to Covering Up JFK Info: Castro Assassination Plan



> Half a century following the assassination of John F Kennedy, a former top secret report, written in 2013 by the leading in-house historian at the CIA was declassified (1). The report discloses what many have been insisting for over 50 years, that John McCone, director of the CIA during the Cold War, and other CIA officials, were “complicit” in keeping “incendiary” information from the Warren Commission, the official President’s Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy.


----------



## FeXL

Playing the Charlie Foxtrot? Say it ain't so...

Gaming Obamacare



> Insurers say those who sign up during special enrollment periods are running up their bills and then jumping ship.


When even Politico pays attention...


----------



## FeXL

Related:

An ObamaCare Story The Left Doesn’t Want Told



> The hospital had done its job under ObamaCare, as they put a “band-aid on a bullet hole.” Hospitals under ObamaCare have no reason to dig deeper, to find out the underlying problem. Their job under ObamaCare is to flip patients.
> 
> Barbara Dawson knew that her discharge meant her death. She was struggling physically, as her issues were serious. She would not allow the hospital to simply “stabilize her,” and send her home to die. Hospitals are supposed to help.
> 
> “No, no, no, no,” Dawson implores the responding officer when he begins talking with her. She asks him to leave the room and says she is feeling sick.
> 
> So the hospital did what ObamaCare instructed it to do. Call the police.


More:

Woman dies after being forcibly removed from hospital

Florida woman collapsed in hospital parking lot for 18 min, died later – dashcam footage

Despicable.


----------



## FeXL

Here it comes again...

From Subprime to Sub-Subprime



> But Fannie Mae, the organized-crime syndicate masquerading as a quasi-governmental entity, has other ideas. *Under its new and cynically misnamed “HomeReady” program, borrowers with subprime credit don’t need to show that they have enough income to qualify for the mortgage they’re after — they simply have to show that all the people residing in their household put together have enough income to qualify for that mortgage.* We’re not talking just about husbands and wives here, but any group of people who happen to share a roof and a mailing address. And some non-residents can be added, too, such as your parents.
> ADVERTISING
> 
> That would be one thing if all these people were applying for a mortgage together, and were jointly on the hook for the mortgage payments. But that isn’t the case. *HomeReady will permit borrowers to claim other people’s income for the purpose for qualifying for a mortgage, but will not give mortgage lenders any actual claim against that additional income.*


M'bold.

In sum:



> *We’ve just legalized mortgage fraud.*


Emphasis mine...


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-presi
dent/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html

A "sticky" situation in the making? We shall see.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-presi
> dent/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html
> 
> A "sticky" situation in the making? We shall see.


That link did not work due to a glitch. Here is the correct one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...84a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> That link did not work due to a glitch. Here is the correct one:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...84a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html


Merci. Should be interesting to see if The Donald is correct for once. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Obama Admin Blocked Visa Waiver Reforms to Avoid Upsetting Iran



> Recent congressional efforts to tighten gaps in the U.S. visa waiver program were blocked by the Obama administration out of fear the counter-terror effort would upset Iran, which opposes the reform to the visa process, according to a letter sent by a delegation of leading senators to Secretary of State John Kerry.
> 
> Congress approved late last year a measure to tighten restrictions on those entering the United States via the visa waiver program, which facilitates travel between America and many European countries.
> 
> The law prohibits travel to the United States for any foreign individual who has since 2011 visited Iraq, Iran, or any other country designated as a state sponsor of terrorism. The Obama administration threatened to waive the provision after Iran publicly opposed the measure and warned that it violates the nuclear agreement with Iran.


I wonder if there is anything else we can do for them...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That's ludicrous. Several of them are against the use of ground troops and are want to scale back military adventurism. Some are so young that military service was not compulsory. 

And the Dems? Three more candidates who have "avoided military service."

Typical craptastic (pixelated) meme.


----------



## Dr.G.

Somewhere, I still have my "Another Meathead for Bunker" button when he was a write-in candidate back in 1972.


----------



## Macfury

Man, I really never enjoyed that show.



Dr.G. said:


> Somewhere, I still have my "Another Meathead for Bunker" button when he was a write-in candidate back in 1972.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Man, I really never enjoyed that show.


Interesting. Archie Bunker made my father sound like an elocution teacher. My father was from Brooklyn, NY.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Man, I really never enjoyed that show.


I'm surprised. It was very effective at making a right-wing blowhard into a lovable character. I would think you'd be a fan....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm surprised. It was very effective at making a right-wing blowhard into a lovable character. I would think you'd be a fan....


I think the program did a disservice, first by its de facto classification of those on the right as racists, and secondly by trying to make a racist lovable. If anything, the program succeeded--uninentionally--at showing how out of touch even the leftists of the 1970s were through Mike Stivic.


----------



## eMacMan

Wiley hits the nail dead center!


----------



## Macfury

Liked that one!


----------



## FeXL

Uh, oh...

Report: U.S. Rescue Team Was on Its Way to Benghazi, But Was Turned Back



> The evidence is overwhelming that the United States had several rescue teams ready to go during the 2012 Benghazi attacks, but someone -- possibly the president himself -- prevented them from acting. So said Emmy Award-winning journalist Sharyl Attkisson to talk show host Steve Malzberg in an interview on Wednesday.
> 
> This week on her show, "Full Measure," Attkisson looked into the aborted rescue mission in an in-depth two-part report, "Rescue Interrupted," which you can watch here and here. She spoke with a Green Beret commander who told her that there were actually Special Forces _on their way_ to Benghazi who were turned back.


----------



## FeXL

President Obama: 3 Year Moratorium on New Coal Mines



> President Obama has just announced a 3 year moratorium on leasing federal land for new coal mines, pending a review of the impact of coal on the global climate.


Yet, China has plans for 155 new coal fired generating stations. This on top of the 190 GW of coal-powered generating they've already installed in the last 4 years.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Uh, oh...
> 
> Report: U.S. Rescue Team Was on Its Way to Benghazi, But Was Turned Back


Sounding more and more like a staged event!


----------



## eMacMan

This little weekly has come a long way from its beginnings in the early 90s as a promotional tool for the Cripple Creek Casino Crowd. 

One of the best articles I have seen on relating to the upcoming elections.



> ...
> So I see a lot of the candidates are saber rattling, I saw Chris Christie talking about the carpet bombing of our terrorist friends in the middle east. Isn’t it quaint how a person who has never donned a uniform, never spent a day in the military, and never had to go off to combat, can be ready to throw our young folks into the fray? I find most politicians are more thinkers than doers. Politicians will say what everyone wants to hear to get the job. I don’t much care for politicians and I sure don’t see one in the presidential field for who I would really care to vote.
> 
> And that leads me to the next point, what do voters think. In my experience and from what I have seen most voters think, very few do the research, or look into history, to see “if” what they think is correct. Most voters “think” they know that the United States was intended to be a democracy, but that is quite contrary to history and the writings of the founders. Many voters can’t tell you what a Federalist Paper is, or what an Anti-federalist Paper is, who was associated with either movement, or why the Bill of Rights came into being or what a pre-existing right is or how pre-existing rights work. Most voters can’t even tell you what the Electoral College is, why it was brought into existence, or how the college has failed us in this age. Votes for president are a waste of time if you ask me. But I am often times too cerebral and I also refuse to spoon feed people.
> ...


Entire article here:
Thinkers and Doers -Murph Unleashed | The Mountain Jackpot News


----------



## Dr.G.

Sen. Ted Cruz must feel like he had been hit by a real "one-two" punch, with the Gov. of Iowa stating that folks there should not vote for Cruz and with Sarah Palin stating that she is now ready to "stump for Trump" out on the campaign trail.


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> Sen. Ted Cruz must feel like he had been hit by a real "one-two" punch, with the Gov. of Iowa stating that folks there should not vote for Cruz and with Sarah Palin stating that she is now ready to "stump for Trump" out on the campaign trail.


My first thought upon learning of Sarah Palin's support for Trump; how much is Palin's compensation for her support of Mr. Trump?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sen. Ted Cruz must feel like he had been hit by a real "one-two" punch, with the Gov. of Iowa stating that folks there should not vote for Cruz and with Sarah Palin stating that she is now ready to "stump for Trump" out on the campaign trail.


Cruz's position on ending corn ethanol subsidies is the correct one--and the one that earned him condemnation from the Iowa Governor. Palin previously assisted Cruz in his election to senate, but I believe she correctly chose to back the candidate who has the greatest capability to roll back the entire Obama "legacy."


----------



## CubaMark

A Trump-Palin ticket? Oh, please let it be true! Not only would it give late-night comedians gold material for years to come, it would most assuredly hasten the downfall of the American empire... just hope they implode rather than explode, as we're too darn close to that mess.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you get what's happening. There will be no Trump-Palin ticket. Trump is taking the Palin endorsement only to edge down Cruz in Iowa, where he has a whisker-thin lead.



CubaMark said:


> A Trump-Palin ticket? Oh, please let it be true! Not only would it give late-night comedians gold material for years to come, it would most assuredly hasten the downfall of the American empire... just hope they implode rather than explode, as we're too darn close to that mess.


----------



## CubaMark

Let a man dream, MF. Besides, The Donald hasn't said no:

*Donald Trump dodges question about possible Vice President Sarah Palin: ‘I don’t think that it would be something that she’d want to do’*​
...but that "...he hasn’t talked to Palin about the possibility of working under a Trump administration — but he said he’d be happy to have her on his staff."

If not VP, then where might this Alaskan caricature find herself? Surely to God not in any position that would involve interacting with any world leaders...


----------



## SINC

Trump may be a buffoon, but he is one smart businessman who has demonstrated an sharp ability to make money for years now. Surely he has some of those smarts left to realize that Palin would be more of a liability than an asset.


----------



## Macfury

She's an asset in Iowa. Trump wants to demonstrate a winning streak that starts straight off, and this is part of a well-crafted plan to injure Cruz. 

Frankly, I hope he takes the presidency and undoes 8 years of Obama malfeasance over a couple of weeks.




SINC said:


> Trump may be a buffoon, but he is one smart businessman who has demonstrated an sharp ability to make money for years now. Surely he has some of those smarts left to realize that Palin would be more of a liability than an asset.


----------



## Macfury

He hasn't said no to Cruz either--or anyone else.



CubaMark said:


> Let a man dream, MF. Besides, The Donald hasn't said no:


----------



## FeXL

<just shaking my head>...



CubaMark said:


> A Trump-Palin ticket?


----------



## FeXL

Is there any possible way this can get pushed out of sight? Is this getting so big that is can no longer be ignored?

Insane. Intel community's IG had to up his clearance just to view info on Clinton server.

Related:

IG: E-mails on Hillary server from highly classified “special access programs”



> Hillary Clinton’s secret e-mail server contained more highly classified information than previously thought, according to a letter from the Inspector General overseeing the material. Fox News got an exclusive look at a letter from Thursday that concludes that “several dozen” e-mails contained classified information ranging from confidential to top secret from “special access programs” — information that should have only been seen by a handful of government officials. There could be no mistaking the nature of this information, or its sensitivity


Update:

So, they go into damage control, saying that the IG is obviously a biased Republican, right-wing conspiracy, blah, blah, blah.

Team Hillary: Inspector General is part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy, or something

However:



> It’s worth pointing out that newly minted VRWC figure Charles McCullough was appointed as IG for intelligence by … Barack Obama. The Senate, under Democratic control at the time, confirmed his appointment by unanimous consent.


----------



## FeXL

So, the Baltic Dry Index has long been known as an indicator of the economy. It's currently very low. In addition to that, there are a number of other transport indicators, many of which are touched on in the article.

So What’s Happening In The Shipping Reports?

He sums:



> The big problem is that nobody’s buying. Look, with healthcare mandated and ever more expensive, layoffs happening right and left, who’s going to take the chance on purchases if they don’t have to make them. *This is what happens when you play games with the economy. You send ripples across that you never planned for with static thinking. Those ripples have an ugly way of bouncing back on things that you didn’t want them to.*
> 
> With Obama, spouting off tonight about his legacy, here it is on stack of charts and idle trucks, trains and ships. *This is the consequences of the administration’s punt gun blasts on the economy. This is what happens when an entire political class is SO out of touch that they no longer even see the people out of work, the factories closing, the empty cities, towns and homes.* One hopes that the next administration will be able to repair some of the damage.


M'bold.

Yep.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> She's an asset in Iowa. Trump wants to demonstrate a winning streak that starts straight off, and this is part of a well-crafted plan to injure Cruz.
> 
> Frankly, I hope he takes the presidency and undoes 8 years of Obama malfeasance over a couple of weeks.


If Palin was any dumber they would have to water her!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't think you get what's happening. There will be no Trump-Palin ticket. Trump is taking the Palin endorsement only to edge down Cruz in Iowa, where he has a whisker-thin lead.


I agree with you here, Macfury.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> If Palin was any dumber they would have to water her!


I disagree.

She is not nearly as dumb as the MSM portray her. Not even close. 

The unfortunate truth is that there are many people who, to this day, still believe she actually said, "I can see Russia from my house". She didn't. It was Tina Fey in a SNL sketch. However, they base their opinion on that statement.


----------



## Rps

FeXL, Tina Fey makes her look bright, and she did actually say that, but it was in jest during her intro-speech, which I thought was quite good. Humour in political speeches always comes back to haunt the speaker, ask Hiliary and her ISIS uses Trump for recruitment comment. This wasn't a fact statement but a humorous whack at Trump, yet fact checkers attacked her, as they did Palin. Palin's dumbness came out in the in caucus interviews on policy issues. Many couldn't believe how limited her knowledge was.....being potentially one heart beat away and all.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> ...ask Hiliary and her ISIS uses Trump for recruitment comment. This wasn't a fact statement but a humorous whack at Trump, yet fact checkers attacked her, as they did Palin.


She can't tell a joke to save her life. I think she meant it.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL, Tina Fey makes her look bright, and she did actually say that, but it was in jest during her intro-speech, which I thought was quite good.


FALSE: 'I Can See Russia from My House'



Rps said:


> Humour in political speeches always comes back to haunt the speaker, ask Hiliary and her ISIS uses Trump for recruitment comment.


I agree with MF here. I believe Hillary meant it.



Rps said:


> Palin's dumbness came out in the in caucus interviews on policy issues. Many couldn't believe how limited her knowledge was.....being potentially one heart beat away and all.


Well, if that's the mark of dumb, then a certain vapid Dauphin qualifies in spades...


----------



## CubaMark

I suppose the usual suspects will now jump in and claim the National Review has been moving "leftward" in recent years, or have fallen under the influence of some "liberal svengali" or something... 

*National Review Booted From GOP Debate After 'Against Trump' Issue*

_Editors of the National Review on Thursday night published their "Against Trump Symposium," a collection of essays in which conservative luminaries teamed up to decry the prospect of Donald Trump becoming the GOP's presidential nominee and, by extension, the party's standard-bearer of conservatism. There were immediate consequences: The magazine was "disinvited" from participating in an upcoming debate.

National Review publisher Jack Fowler posted the news to The Corner. As he relates, the magazine was a media partner to the Feb. 25, pre-Super Tuesday debate -- already noteworthy for having been given to CNN after NBC News fell into disfavor with the Republican National Committee following the Oct. 28 debate on CNBC, which was widely held to have been a debacle. The National Review was to have joined Telemundo and Salem Radio Network in this endeavor._​
(HuffPo)


----------



## Macfury

_National Review_ has not so much moved leftward as become more establishment. This is a business decision by the RNC, not some conspiracy against _NR_.



CubaMark said:


> I suppose the usual suspects will now jump in and claim the National Review has been moving "leftward" in recent years, or have fallen under the influence of some "liberal svengali" or something...
> 
> *National Review Booted From GOP Debate After 'Against Trump' Issue*)


----------



## FeXL

Interesting take on the _NR_ thing.

_National Review_ Hoists White Flag, Defiantly Rows To Outcast Island



> This time, many conservatives just want the wall built. Trump has not always been pro-life and pro-guns, but he is now and that is what counts. He also is unapologetically politically incorrect, to the point of being rude, but being polite has not gotten conservatives a damned thing. Trump is bringing Democrats, independents and unregistered people into the party. Losing just to meet some conservative purity test is a luxury Republicans no longer can afford.
> 
> Washington conservatives -- Cable News Conservatives -- overlook the fundamental principle of conservativism, and that is giving everyone the same opportunity. *America is best when she is a capitalistic society that builds railroads and industry. The idea that only career politicians are qualified to hold public office is not conservative.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Make her president!!!

EXCLUSIVE: Clinton email exposed intel from human spying



> At least one of the emails on Hillary Clinton's private server contained extremely sensitive information identified by an intelligence agency as "HCS-O," which is the code used for reporting on human intelligence sources in ongoing operations, according to two sources not authorized to speak on the record.
> 
> Both sources are familiar with the intelligence community inspector general’s January 14 letter to Congress, advising the Oversight committees that intelligence beyond Top Secret -- known as Special Access Program (SAP) -- was identified in the Clinton emails, as well the supporting documents from the affected agencies that owned the information and have final say on classification.
> 
> *According to a December 2013 policy document released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence: This designation "is used to protect exceptionally fragile and unique IC (intelligence community) clandestine HUMINT operations and methods that are not intended for dissemination outside of the originating agency.”*


----------



## FeXL

I found this interesting.

A lot of politicians have been tip-toeing around the major corn producers for fear of backlash.

Do Iowa voters really care about ethanol anymore?



> With the Iowa caucuses fewer than 10 days away, research commissioned by the American Council for Capital Formation (ACCF) and completed this week provides new insights into what 700 likely voters across the state know about corn ethanol mandates, how much they care about or are following them, and whether they’re likely to vote on the basis of a candidate’s position on the issue.
> 
> Their answer? Not much, not really, and not at all.


----------



## FeXL

I guess some truly can't handle the truth...

Tell the truth about benefit claimants and the left shuts you down



> This week I want to highlight another victim of liberal McCarthy-ism — Dr Adam Perkins, a lecturer in the neurobiology of personality at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King’s College London. Like Chagnon, *Perkins is a social scientist whose research findings pose a direct challenge to one of the central planks of left-wing ideology.*
> 
> Over the past five years, *he has accumulated a mass of evidence about the personalities of welfare claimants and concluded that individuals with aggressive, rule-breaking and anti-social tendencies — what he calls the ‘employment–resistant personality profile’ — are over-represented among benefit recipients.* He also found that their children are likely to share those traits, which helps explain why poverty has a tendency to be passed down from one generation to the next.
> 
> Now, none of that will surprise anyone who has spent time among the long-term unemployed or their -progeny, such as the police, social workers and teachers. You might even say it’s bleedin’ obvious. *But to the progressive left, Perkins’s research is sacrilege. It runs counter to the anti-capitalist narrative that portrays the ever-expanding underclass as ‘victims’ whose only sin is to be born on the wrong side of the tracks.* We’re back to the myth of the noble savage.


M'bold.

Excellent read.


----------



## fjnmusic

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----------



## Macfury

Trump didn't skip that debate to avoid Megyn Kelly. It was a ruse to get the other candidates to hammer Ted Cruz just before the Iowa caucus. Very shrewd,


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump didn't skip that debate to avoid Megyn Kelly. It was a ruse to get the other candidates to hammer Ted Cruz just before the Iowa caucus. Very shrewd,


Agreed. He had little to gain and possibly much to lose, so let the other send out their "whips and arrows" at Cruz. Yes, "very shrewd".


----------



## Dr.G.

Ted Cruz stole one of his favourite jokes from a Canadian politician - The Globe and Mail

Oops. His Canadian/Albertan roots are starting to show.


----------



## Vandave

I think Trump is the next President. I think he does a similar number on the Clinton's that he did to Bush. I don't see any Republican beating him at this point and I can't see how Hillary can possibly keep up. Trump is going take States the Republicans haven't won for decades.


----------



## fjnmusic

Vandave said:


> I think Trump is the next President. I think he does a similar number on the Clinton's that he did to Bush. I don't see any Republican beating him at this point and I can't see how Hillary can possibly keep up. Trump is going take States the Republicans haven't won for decades.



I fear you may be right; Trump has charisma and momentum, for what he lacks in intellect. It's like the rise of Hitler in so many ways. The USA does not know what it's in for if this hothead ever gets his finger on the red button. Thing is, he's all bluster and bravado. He has no real power or real wisdom. He couldn't hold a candle to our Prime Minister for example. 


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## Vandave

fjnmusic said:


> He couldn't hold a candle to our Prime Minister for example.


I couldn't possibly disagree more. Trump is a certifiable genius. The guy graduated top of his class in economics from an Ivy league school. Trudeau graduated with a BA in English from a school I never heard of.

Trump is a billionaire and runs a massive and successful empire. Trudeau ran a classroom.

Trump isn't a politician and he has only been doing this for months. Yet, he has rewritten the book on politics and he has schooled everybody. 

The media and political class are completely confused and can't figure him out. They've tried to stop him but they are incapable of doing it. Trump runs them. Trudeau plays to them because that's his only path to power.


----------



## Vandave

I like political outsiders running for office. We need more turnover and need to stop electing people who want to be career politicians. I think I'm no longer voting or supporting people who've sat for more than 2 terms, other than a PM or Premier.


----------



## fjnmusic

Vandave said:


> I couldn't possibly disagree more. Trump is a certifiable genius. The guy graduated top of his class in economics from an Ivy league school. Trudeau graduated with a BA in English from a school I never heard of.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is a billionaire and runs a massive and successful empire. Trudeau ran a classroom.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump isn't a politician and he has only been doing this for months. Yet, he has rewritten the book on politics and he has schooled everybody.
> 
> 
> 
> The media and political class are completely confused and can't figure him out. They've tried to stop him but they are incapable of doing it. Trump runs them. Trudeau plays to them because that's his only path to power.



Trump is a crook. Trudeau is an honest man. Simple as that for me. 


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## fjnmusic

Vandave said:


> I like political outsiders running for office. We need more turnover and need to stop electing people who want to be career politicians. I think I'm no longer voting or supporting people who've sat for more than 2 terms, other than a PM or Premier.



I have no problem with that idea. But I do have a real problem with the tactics and strangely xenophobic utterings that fall from Trump's mouth. His popularity is not a mystery; he is an actor and knows how to use the media to his advantage. He is a megamaniacal narcissist who does not play nicely with others. He is full of hot air. He is just as much a financial failure as he is a success, with four or so bankruptcies under his belt. He is popular—no question—but for the wrong reasons. He is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, same tactic that Harper tried. But Harper did it with less conviction. When Trump says he could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not lose any votes, you've got to wonder exactly what his moral compass is. 


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## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump didn't skip that debate to avoid Megyn Kelly. It was a ruse to get the other candidates to hammer Ted Cruz just before the Iowa caucus. Very shrewd,


Yes, very astute. His not showing up would be what I would have advised him.....it was all about Trump without him being there......guess who won that one!


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Yes, very astute. His not showing up would be what I would have advised him.....it was all about Trump without him being there......guess who won that one!


We shall soon see if this strategy paid off for DT. The fight will then be for who comes in second and third.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> We shall soon see if this strategy paid off for DT. The fight will then be for who comes in second and third.



My guess is Trumo will win by s wide margin. But he is not a Repulican, and he has turned his back literally on the GOP. May we live in interesting times. 


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> We shall soon see if this strategy paid off for DT. The fight will then be for who comes in second and third.


I have a good friend who is working for Sanders, so it will be interesting. Iowa is only in the news, I think, because it is first in the long line of voting processes. There are 10 states that have primary processes. So I don't see losing Iowa as a big deal...but we shall see.


----------



## Rps

fjnmusic said:


> My guess is Trumo will win by s wide margin. But he is not a Repulican, and he has turned his back literally on the GOP. May we live in interesting times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I was a betting man I would be looking at Rubio.


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## Macfury

He's turned his back on the GOP establishment, but he is a Republican.



fjnmusic said:


> My guess is Trumo will win by s wide margin. But he is not a Repulican, and he has turned his back literally on the GOP. May we live in interesting times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> My guess is Trumo will win by s wide margin. But he is not a Repulican, and he has turned his back literally on the GOP. May we live in interesting times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true. :clap: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's turned his back on the GOP establishment, but he is a Republican.


As my grandfather used to say, "You can but a shoe in the oven but it won't come out a bagel."


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> If I was a betting man I would be looking at Rubio.


Rubio can only gain traction if the rest of the establishment "hangers-on" vacate--Kasich, Bush, Christie and Huckabee--perhaps Fiorina. However, if Carson leaves the race, Trump and Cruz would eat up any Rubio advantage.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, I have worked many elections.....we'll see.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, I have worked many elections.....we'll see.


Is that supposed to be a qualification for predicting the outcome of Iowa?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Is that supposed to be a qualification for predicting the outcome of Iowa?


Iowa is hardly 1% of the population, not much of a sample....let's talk again when the primaries start rolling, we will see where Rubio stands then.


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> Iowa is hardly 1% of the population, not much of a sample....let's talk again when the primaries start rolling, we will see where Rubio stands then.



Iowa is also very evangelical. Trump is not. And Hillary is a Methodist. Religion is a BIG influence to our neighbors down South. 


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Iowa is also very evangelical. Trump is not. And Hillary is a Methodist. Religion is a BIG influence to our neighbors down South.


Religion is not a huge part of the Democrat nomination process--the party of abortion.

Trump is doing well with Christian groups in Iowa, not because he is religious, but because they believe he has the best chance of influencing issues in which they believe. Cruz is doing well with Evangelical Christians, but this is a subset of the religious groups in that state.


----------



## Vandave

fjnmusic said:


> He is just as much a financial failure as he is a success, with four or so bankruptcies under his belt.


Ya, Ok. 

Come on. That's just laughable. The guy is a multi-billionaire with hundreds of businesses. Going bankrupt is part of the system and the game. Of course some of his endeavours haven't worked out. What businessman has a perfect record? None.

On the net, he has created a tremendous amount of wealth. To say otherwise is to say the glass is 0.01% empty. 



fjnmusic said:


> When Trump says he could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not lose any votes, you've got to wonder exactly what his moral compass is.


Because that wasn't a joke at all. :baby:

Fake outrage much?


----------



## Macfury

Agreed. 

And Justin Trudeau has already proved himself a dishonest politician.




Vandave said:


> I couldn't possibly disagree more. Trump is a certifiable genius. The guy graduated top of his class in economics from an Ivy league school. Trudeau graduated with a BA in English from a school I never heard of.
> 
> Trump is a billionaire and runs a massive and successful empire. Trudeau ran a classroom.
> 
> Trump isn't a politician and he has only been doing this for months. Yet, he has rewritten the book on politics and he has schooled everybody.
> 
> The media and political class are completely confused and can't figure him out. They've tried to stop him but they are incapable of doing it. Trump runs them. Trudeau plays to them because that's his only path to power.


----------



## fjnmusic

Vandave said:


> Ya, Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on. That's just laughable. The guy is a multi-billionaire with hundreds of businesses. Going bankrupt is part of the system and the game. Of course some of his endeavours haven't worked out. What businessman has a perfect record? None.
> 
> 
> 
> On the net, he has created a tremendous amount of wealth. To say otherwise is to say the glass is 0.01% empty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because that wasn't a joke at all. :baby:
> 
> 
> 
> Fake outrage much?



Nope. I find the guy entertaining as a TV personality, mostly because his boorish nature means he never worries about engaging his brain before his mouth starts moving. He is no genius. But as a presidential candidate, I'd say he is as credible as the Rhino party, or perhaps the Tea Party. His Xenophobia is real, or else he's acting to appeal to the dumbest and most racist of American voters. He may be a financial success, for the most part, but I also suspect he is a crook, and would be prepared to sacrifice the wellbeing of a great number of Americans he doesn't like, starting with Mexican Americans. 


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## Macfury

> Originally Posted by fjnmusic
> When Trump says he could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not lose any votes, you've got to wonder exactly what his moral compass is


Trump was quoting someone else when he said that. Low-information types attribute it to Trump.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Trump was quoting someone else when he said that. Low-information types attribute it to Trump.



I'm quoting the low information type that actually said it, Mr. low information type. Just like the comments he made about feminine hygiene with respect to Hillary Clinton or just about anything he says about Mexicans being rapists and drug pushers, although there are a few good ones, or that he'd be going after his daughter if he wasn't her father. Creepy. Yup, low information boor. Every. Time. 


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## Vandave

fjnmusic said:


> He is no genius.


Maybe around 156. 99.99 percentile... Sound about right to me.

Donald Trump is a Genius ? But That?s Just His IQ! | Opinion - Conservative

His own words:

"Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure,it's not your fault"



fjnmusic said:


> He may be a financial success, for the most part, but I also suspect he is a crook


You read about Hillary? Terrible person.

Trump's a good guy. Name another guy with two ex-wives that still like him.


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## Macfury

I'm calling Rps's bets on Rubio at any rate. Trump, Cruz, Rubio will finish in that order in Iowa. Santorum will drop out following his devastating results.


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## Dr.G.

2016 Election Center - Presidential Primaries and Caucuses – 2016 Election Center - CNNPolitics.com

Very interesting results.


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## Dr.G.

2016 Election Center - Presidential Primaries and Caucuses – 2016 Election Center - CNNPolitics.com

Very surprising results. I wonder how the Clinton and Trump camps shall try to spin these results. We shall see.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> 2016 Election Center - Presidential Primaries and Caucuses – 2016 Election Center - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Very surprising results. I wonder how the Clinton and Trump camps shall try to spin these results. We shall see.



Trump in particular is not going to be happy to be second place to anyone. Clinton wants the job so bad she can taste it, which may eventually be her undoing. I believe Bernie is the better candidate for the Dems. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Trump in particular is not going to be happy to be second place to anyone. Clinton wants the job so bad she can taste it, which may eventually be her undoing. I believe Bernie is the better candidate for the Dems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> Agreed. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


I don't understand where the pro-Hillary Democrats are. When I look at message boards, they don't exist. Everybody is for Bernie, yet he's behind Clinton by a long shot. Same goes for their crowds. Nobody shows up for Hillary and Bernie is drawing big. 

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say the primaries were rigged. I don't tend to buy into conspiracies but stuff like this makes me think.


----------



## Macfury

It's bizarre--Hillary attracts some crowds of only a few dozen. Given her listless speeches and tired demeanour, she acts like she's behind as well.



Vandave said:


> I don't understand where the pro-Hillary Democrats are. When I look at message boards, they don't exist. Everybody is for Bernie, yet he's behind Clinton by a long shot. Same goes for their crowds. Nobody shows up for Hillary and Bernie is drawing big.
> 
> If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say the primaries were rigged. I don't tend to buy into conspiracies but stuff like this makes me think.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm calling Rps's bets on Rubio at any rate. Trump, Cruz, Rubio will finish in that order in Iowa. Santorum will drop out following his devastating results.


Close, but no cigars.


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## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> Close, but no cigars.


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Close, but no cigars.


Let's see how the numbers look like in June.beejacon


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Let's see how the numbers look like in June.beejacon


We shall see.


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## SINC

Is it just me, or does Ted Cruz look like Grampa from The Munsters?


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Is it just me, or does Ted Cruz look like Grampa from The Munsters?


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Rand Paul is suspending his bid for the presidency. I wonder who, if anyone, he will support?


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Rand Paul is suspending his bid for the presidency. I wonder who, if anyone, he will support?



Not the Donald. The Donald is not a team player. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Not the Donald. The Donald is not a team player.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Very true.


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> Not the Donald. The Donald is not a team player.


If you ever wondered what happened to the kid when he grew up, now you know.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder who, if anyone, he will support?


If he's smart, he will keep quiet for now. Trump is still the favourite and he also isn't going to take kindly to those who cross him. Also, I think Rand appeals to many of the people Trump does. So, he hurts his brand if he goes against them.


----------



## Macfury

Vandave said:


> If he's smart, he will keep quiet for now. Trump is still the favourite and he also isn't going to take kindly to those who cross him. Also, I think Rand appeals to many of the people Trump does. So, he hurts his brand if he goes against them.


At any rate, Rand's support will not wind up in Rubio's camp.


----------



## Macfury

I see the Cruz campaign "erroneously" told voters that Carson had dropped out the night of the Iowa polls, leading Trump to accuse Cruz of stealing the election. Of course, Iowa is not a winner-take-all state so Cruz winds up with eight delegates and Trump seven.


----------



## Dr.G.

Now Rick Santorum is dropping his presidential bid. Interesting how the two previous winners of the Iowa caucus, Huckabee and Santorum, finished so low in this Iowa caucus. I assume that this result prompted both of them to drop out of the race this year.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Now Rick Santorum is dropping his presidential bid. Interesting how the two previous winners of the Iowa caucus, Huckabee and Santorum, finished so low in this Iowa caucus. I assume that this result prompted both of them to drop out of the race this year.


You can't blame them for hoping the magic will strike again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You can't blame them for hoping the magic will strike again.


True ............ which surprised me with how poorly both did in Iowa.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ............ which surprised me with how poorly both did in Iowa.


Those fickle Iowans!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Those fickle Iowans!


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Lunch Money Surrendered



> The Council of the District of Columbia approved legislation Tuesday that would pay residents in the nation’s capital for not committing crimes.
> 
> ...
> 
> The experiment in Richmond, on which the above is based, involved “sifting through police records to determine the 50 [or so] residents most likely to shoot someone.” And then “approaching them and [offering] a stipend [of up to $1000 a month] to turn their lives around, and a mentor to help.” After four years of being subsidised for not committing any further violent crimes, 65 of the 68 “fellows” enrolled in the programme were “still alive,” although “one had survived a shooting and three had died.” This was deemed “promising.”


From the comments:



> Apparently, the “root cause of violent crime” and underclass dysfunction is those violent and dysfunctional individuals not being handed a $9,000 stipend extracted from the law-abiding.
> 
> Crime doesn’t pay, allegedly, but the _prospect_ of crime does.


----------



## fjnmusic

From Andrew Coyne: How Trump can still be useful in the Republican presidential race 
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/andr...ful+after+republican+race/11695977/story.html


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## Macfury

I disagree with Coyne here. Trump will still take the nom. Coyne is grasping at straws for an establishment type like Rubio to win. He seems to have pressed the "ignore" button on Rubio's non-conservative and hopelessly establishment turns as a member of the "Gang of Eight."



fjnmusic said:


> From Andrew Coyne: How Trump can still be useful in the Republican presidential race
> Andrew Coyne: Trump may prove useful after all in Republican race


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I disagree with Coyne here. Trump will still take the nom. Coyne is grasping at straws for an establishment type like Rubio to win. He seems to have pressed the "ignore" button on Rubio's non-conservative and hopelessly establishment turns as a member of the "Gang of Eight."


I agree with you, Macfury. I feel that the key will be the super delegates at the Rep. convention, which are the elected officials and "special people" in the Republican Party. Not sure they will go for Trump or Cruz. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...aff-as-funds-dry-up/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_evening

Wonder how long Carson can continue his bid? We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Wouldn't be surprised...

Des Moines Register: "Something Smells In the Democratic Party" Regarding Iowa Results



> They're suggesting, in so many words, that the Democratic Party has cooked the results to give a fake "win" to their Anointed Goat.
> 
> They say the want all the data, all the votes, all the records of the coin flips -- full "transparency."
> 
> ...
> 
> The Sanders campaign is already attempting their own review, matching their notes of caucus votes against the officially claimed results. When asked to participate in this, the Democrat Party said, _"Nope."_


----------



## FeXL

Not surprised...

FOIA'd Documents Prove: The Obama Administration Lied When It Claimed It Could Not Prioritize Spending During a Shutdown to Avoid a Default



> During the fights about the debt ceiling -- in 2011 and 2013 -- people who wanted to reduce spending noted, correctly, that a simple expiration of a government funding would not, in fact, trigger an immediate default on government debt.
> 
> The Obama Administration claimed it would, because they were trying to scare people to just give into them. (It worked.)
> 
> People like Veronica De Rugy said that that was preposterous, that the government had a fair amount of money (even with a spending shutdown) and could prioritize its payments to make sure the debt was paid off, to avoid that bad outcome.
> 
> Again, the Obama Administration lied and said that was impossible.
> 
> Not only was it possible-- they planned for it and wargamed it.


In sum:



> But no one will care, because everyone knows, this country ain't gonna fundamentally transform itself.


Yep...


----------



## FeXL

The hypocrisy is stunning...

President Obama Proposes $10 per Barrel Carbon Tax



> President Obama has proposed a $10 per barrel carbon tax to fund renewable energy, and to “encourage” people to stop using oil.


Ya know, I find my fuel usage doesn't vary much whether the price of gas is higher or lower. There is a base amount that I need to burn in any given month & that doesn't change much. When it's lower, it's just less painful.

Related (From [Obama's] March 30, 2011 address on energy security.):

Flashback: Obama on raising gas taxes: ‘It hurts’ families and businesses



> In an economy that relies so heavily on oil, rising prices at the pump affect everybody -– workers, farmers, truck drivers, restaurant owners, students who are lucky enough to have a car. (Laughter.) *Businesses* see rising prices at the pump hurt their bottom line. *Families* feel the pinch when they fill up their tank. And for Americans that are already struggling to get by, a hike in gas prices really makes their lives that much harder. *It hurts.*
> 
> If you’re somebody who works in a relatively low-wage job and you’ve got to commute to work, it takes up a big chunk of your income. *You may not be able to buy as many groceries.* You may have to *cut back on medicines* in order to fill up the gas tank. So this is something that everybody is affected by.


Bold from the link.

Oh, but it sounded good at the time...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife's email server...

Hillary’s Email Scandal Envelops the Intelligence Agencies



> How could the CIA, NSA, DIA, and the other thirteen intelligence agencies we collectively call the “intelligence community” not know that Clinton was using a private, non-government email system? Obviously, they couldn’t have failed to know. They must have communicated with her directly on a frequent basis and would have to have used her “clintonmail” address. Even if they knew that she was using a private system only from email strings containing her “clintonmail.com” address, they had an immediate duty to investigate and object to her using it. Such objections would have had to be resolved by Obama. There’s nothing to indicate any of the sixteen agencies ever objected, nor did the president.


Further:



> *We also found out that President Obama, contrary to his false statement last March that he only found out about Hillary’s use of that system from recent news reports, actually emailed Hillary at her “clintonmail.com” address at least eighteen times.*


M'bold.

But, who actually looks at email headers, right?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The hypocrisy is stunning...


They are only going to tax oil companies, FeXL...why would that raise the price of oil?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They are only going to tax oil companies, FeXL...why would that raise the price of oil?


<snort> :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Donald Trump Is Shocking, Vulgar and Right



> American presidential elections usually amount to a series of overcorrections: Clinton begat Bush, who produced Obama, whose lax border policies fueled the rise of Trump. In the case of Trump, though, the GOP shares the blame, and not just because his fellow Republicans misdirected their ad buys or waited so long to criticize him. *Trump is in part a reaction to the intellectual corruption of the Republican Party. That ought to be obvious to his critics, yet somehow it isn’t.*


M'bold.

Good read, lots of perspective.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Donald Trump Is Shocking, Vulgar and Right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Good read, lots of perspective.



Hmm. Interesting. 

"Many of those same overpaid, underperforming tax-exempt sinecure-holders are now demanding that Trump be stopped. Why? Because, as his critics have noted in a rising chorus of hysteria, Trump represents “an existential threat to conservatism."


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Hmm. Interesting.
> 
> "Many of those same overpaid, underperforming tax-exempt sinecure-holders are now demanding that Trump be stopped. Why? Because, as his critics have noted in a rising chorus of hysteria, Trump represents “an existential threat to conservatism."


An existential threat to their brand of Conservatism, which involves rolling over and playing dead for Obama, passing massive spending increases, and generally ignoring the voters who put them into office. What it really mean is that it could force an end to the conservative "intelligentsia" who have masterminded failed presidential campaigns and the consultant class that has grown rich on bad advice. The charge is led by "conservative" pundits who are also tone-deaf to the issues that matter to Republican voters. Shills such as David Brooks would find themselves sidelined and that scares them.

The clarion call should have gone out during the George W. Bush years when he failed to practice anything near conservatism, or during the nominations of McCain and Romney, the most liberal of conservatives. 

Screaming about a threat to conservatism now is disingenuous.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> An existential threat to their brand of Conservatism...


Which is RINO...


----------



## Dr.G.

Scotty, beam us up .............. we "feel the bern".


----------



## Macfury

That's hilarious! The Federation is anything but socialist.

Time for McCoy to run in there high on drugs and break up the rally.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's hilarious! The Federation is anything but socialist.
> 
> Time for McCoy to run in there high on drugs and break up the rally.


"Captain, a Klingon disguised as a human is attempting to break up the rally."

"All phasers on stun ........."


----------



## Dr.G.

The Prime Directive is the guiding principle of the United Federation of Planets. The Prime Directive prohibits Starfleet personnel from interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations. This conceptual law applies particularly to civilizations which are below a certain threshold of technological, scientific and cultural development; preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them. 

Luckily, there is the "The Omega Directive," an exception to the Prime Directive was introduced. Starfleet General Order number 0 authorizes a captain to take any and all means necessary to prevent the Republicans from taking over the US under the leadership of Donald Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That's hilarious! The Federation is anything but socialist.


_Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federation economy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:


During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylor and was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)
Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")
When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)
_​
(Memory Alpha Wiki)​


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federation economy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:
> 
> 
> During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylor and was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)
> Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")
> When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)
> _​
> (Memory Alpha Wiki)​


Utopian socialism ............ all for one ....... one for all. "Live long and prosper", mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

No I understand. The Federation is neither Capitalist nor Socialist. Technology has reached the point where it can supply everything at very low social cost. The replicator killed much of the economy as we know it.





CubaMark said:


> _Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federation economy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:
> 
> 
> During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylor and was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)
> Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")
> When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)
> _​
> (Memory Alpha Wiki)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No I understand. The Federation is neither Capitalist nor Socialist. Technology has reached the point where it can supply everything at very low social cost. The replicator killed much of the economy as we know it.


A libertarian paradise .............................. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G4isv_Fylg[/ame] 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> No I understand. The Federation is neither Capitalist nor Socialist.


Nor is it real!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Nor is it real!


If you build it ............. it will come about.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Nor is it real!


I just turned on the TV and there it was... must be real!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I just turned on the TV and there it was... must be real!


:clap::clap::clap:

Solidarity forever, all libertarians great and small. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCnEAH5wCzo[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ib9N7L9y08

Socialism Explained - Abbott & Costello Explain The Stimulus Plan


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> The Prime Directive is the guiding principle of the United Federation of Planets. The Prime Directive prohibits Starfleet personnel from interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations. This conceptual law applies particularly to civilizations which are below a certain threshold of technological, scientific and cultural development; preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them.
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, there is the "The Omega Directive," an exception to the Prime Directive was introduced. Starfleet General Order number 0 authorizes a captain to take any and all means necessary to prevent the Republicans from taking over the US under the leadership of Donald Trump.



Exactement, as the French would say. Plus they violated that Prime Directive. Every. Single. Episode. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Exactement, as the French would say. Plus they violated that Prime Directive. Every. Single. Episode.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Phasers on stun ...................


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/

"Feel the bern "............... just be sure your hand is clean.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> _Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federation economy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylor and was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)
> 
> Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")
> 
> When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)
> 
> _​
> 
> 
> (Memory Alpha Wiki)​



Again, "exactingly" as the French would say. The Ferenghi were capitalists, egregiously so. Not a core value for the Federation, who seemed to favor more of a democratic socialism.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Phasers on stun ...................



We come in peace (shoot to kill)
From "Star Trekkin' Across the Universe"


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> We come in peace (shoot to kill)
> From "Star Trekkin' Across the Universe"
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Beam me up, Scotty ............ there is no empathetic life forms down here.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

FBI Makes It Official: Hillary Rodham Clinton Is Under Investigation



> In a letter disclosed Monday in a federal court filing, the FBI confirms one of the world’s worst-kept secrets: It is looking into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.
> 
> Why say this at all, since it was widely known to be true? Because in August in response to a judge’s direction, the State Department asked the FBI for information about what it was up to. Sorry, the FBI said at the time, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigation.
> 
> Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “*has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.*”


Bold from the link.

More:



> Already, top Republicans are calling for a special prosecutor to be brought in and evaluate the situation. No. 2 Senate Republican John Cornyn (Texas) took to the floor of the Senate last week to call for a special counsel to be appointed “because of the conflict of interest by asking Attorney General Lynch to investigate and perhaps even prosecute somebody in the Obama administration.”


Lynch cannot be part of this.


----------



## FeXL

Curious absence of environmentalist horror...

"Fukushima Class Disaster" - L.A. Gas Leak Spewing Lethal Levels Of Breathable Nuclear Material



> In a breaking development that has been completely ignored by mainstream news sources, the leaking natural gas well near Los Angeles, California is now reportedly spewing lethal levels of radioactive material, according to a report from Steve Quayle and a group with expertise in nuclear material.
> 
> _A leaking natural gas well outside Los Angeles is spewing so much naturally-occurring Uranium and Radon, that “breathable” radiation levels have hit “lethal levels” according to a Nuclear Expert group​_


----------



## Dr.G.

An article that some might find interesting.

Bernie Sanders an extremist? Only in America - The Globe and Mail

"Sanders situates himself four-square within the tradition of American reformers like Franklin Delano Roosevelt. In the view of many historians, FDR, president through most of the Great Depression of the 1930s, saved American capitalism from its capitalists."


----------



## Macfury

FDR was extreme.



Dr.G. said:


> An article that some might find interesting.
> 
> Bernie Sanders an extremist? Only in America - The Globe and Mail
> 
> "Sanders situates himself four-square within the tradition of American reformers like Franklin Delano Roosevelt. In the view of many historians, FDR, president through most of the Great Depression of the 1930s, saved American capitalism from its capitalists."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR was extreme.


To you, maybe ............... to others, he was a ray of hope. It is all a matter of perspective. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

FDR's bizarre policies stretched the Depression to 15 years.



Dr.G. said:


> To you, maybe ............... to others, he was a ray of hope. It is all a matter of perspective. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR's bizarre policies stretched the Depression to 15 years.


So you say ............ but that does not make it so. As my grandfather used to say "You can put a shoe in the oven, but it won't come out a bagel." He survived the Czar's pogroms in Russia and The Great Depression in the US. 

I was an American history major as an undergraduate, and joined The American Historical Association ("The American Historical Association (AHA) is the oldest and largest society of historians and professors of history in the United States. Founded in 1884, the association promotes historical studies, the teaching of history, and the preservation of and access to historical materials. It publishes The American Historical Review five times a year, with scholarly articles and book reviews.") There was an article in the AHR in the late 1960s/early 1970s (I can't quite recall) which polled historians and economists as to FDR's role in ending the economic and social impact of the Great Depression. According to them, you are incorrect in your contention.

Still, you are free to hold your views about FDR, Truman, LBJ, Obama, et al. That is the beauty of the effects of section 2(b) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which protects “freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication”.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Quote of the day ...................

"The ultimate measurement of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King, Jr.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> So you say ............ but that does not make it so. As my grandfather used to say "You can put a shoe in the oven, but it won't come out a bagel." He survived the Czar's pogroms in Russia and The Great Depression in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> I was an American history major as an undergraduate, and joined The American Historical Association ("The American Historical Association (AHA) is the oldest and largest society of historians and professors of history in the United States. Founded in 1884, the association promotes historical studies, the teaching of history, and the preservation of and access to historical materials. It publishes The American Historical Review five times a year, with scholarly articles and book reviews.") There was an article in the AHR in the late 1960s/early 1970s (I can't quite recall) which polled historians and economists as to FDR's role in ending the economic and social impact of the Great Depression. According to them, you are incorrect in your contention.
> 
> 
> 
> Still, you are free to hold your views about FDR, Truman, LBJ, Obama, et al. That is the beauty of the effects of section 2(b) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which protects “freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication”.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



Nicely put, Dr. G. We should all strive to be so diplomatic in our discourse. Paix aussi, mon ami.


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----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Quote of the day ...................
> 
> 
> 
> "The ultimate measurement of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King, Jr.



I see what you did there. Btw, Black History Month has 29 days this year, as Michael Che pointed out on SNL's Weekend Update. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Nicely put, Dr. G. We should all strive to be so diplomatic in our discourse. Paix aussi, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. We are all entitled to our opinions. My disagreement with Macfury over FDR, Truman, LBJ, Obama, et al goes way back. Still, while we disagree, we do so in a civil manner. He has his views, I have mine, and while we disagree, we can still be friends.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I see what you did there. Btw, Black History Month has 29 days this year, as Michael Che pointed out on SNL's Weekend Update.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like what Morgan Freeman said -- "Why have a black history month? Do we have a white history month? No." So, in my opinion, we should consider all races and religions and nationalities for their accomplishments each day of the year.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. We are all entitled to our opinions. My disagreement with Macfury over FDR, Truman, LBJ, Obama, et al goes way back. Still, while we disagree, we do so in a civil manner. He has his views, I have mine, and while we disagree, we can still be friends.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Absolutement!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Absolutement!


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

So, apparently, in California there is this mass criminal "forgiveness" plan in place, whereby convicts are being released hither-thither into the regular population.

My question is, where do you draw the line?

California’s “unprecedented mass forgiveness” of convicts raises more than a few questions



> In case you hadn’t heard, California’s governor has been on something of a binge in terms of releasing convicts from prison and _reforming the system_ to be more fair to everyone. Prison reform and rehabilitation vs isolation is all the rage these days it seems. The Washington Post ran a feature this week on how wonderfully this has been going and it certainly makes a grade A effort to paint a happy face on these proposals.


Italics from the link.

For instance, here's the backstory of one recently released:



> _Gonzalez was hired as a temporary worker at the store. The 22 year old didn’t last long on the job. The Effrons fired him for being rude to customers. Essie Effron told her daughter that Gonzalez’s reaction to being fired frightened her.
> 
> “He looked at me like he was going to kill me. And no one has ever looked at me like that before,” Cheryl Effron said her mother told her. “Those were her words, those were her last words to me.”
> 
> *The next day, Nov. 21, 1977, Gonzalez and two accomplices forced James and Essie Effron into the basement of the store. They were separated from one another, tied up with neckties and beaten with metal pipes.
> 
> “Their heads were wrapped in blankets and they were bludgeoned to death, both of them,” San Diego Deputy District Attorney Richard Sachs said. “It was a horribly painful, bloody way to die.*”​_


M'bold.

Further:



> I’m perfectly willing to discuss criminal justice reform and a fresh look at sentencing guidelines, particularly when it comes to low level drug offenses. But surely there are limits. Are these really the people we want to be putting back out on the streets?


Agreed and, good question.

This guy is now out on the streets. I have issues with that.


----------



## FeXL

So, in a last ditch effort to save herself from a face plant, Bill's Wife has hired someone with some history of her own to help out.

Clinton And Albright Have More In Common Than Their Genitalia 



> Despite a lifetime of portraying herself as a radical feminist and using the possible historical precedent of being the first woman President, it comes as some surprise to read that Presidential candidate and former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, is failing to attract the female millennial vote.
> 
> What is equally surprising is that despite have a veritable army of spin doctors, media managers and image consultants at her disposal she chose to wheel out another former Secretary of State and superannuated Bill Clinton appointee, Madeleine Albright to help reverse the trend.
> 
> *The whole idea that anyone should elect the President of the United States of America on the basis of their gender is ludicrous* as well as insulting but it is not only old age and gender that these two ladies have in common.
> 
> If, as *Madeleine Albright insinuated, 'there's a special place in hell for women who don't vote for Hillary Clinton'* then woe betide the Secretaries of State who ignored multiple requests for extra security at diplomatic missions overseas which resulted in the death of Americans and destruction on a monumental scale.


M'bold.

Very interesting read.


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Obama is giving an excellent live speech in Springfield, IL. Very honest and open.


----------



## Dr.G.

Chris Christie likely to suspend campaign, source says - CNNPolitics.com

Possibly one more candidate will bite the dust. Actually, I liked Gov. Christie, just not all of his views.


----------



## Dr.G.

Carly Fiorina just suspended her presidential campaign, according to CNN TV.


----------



## Macfury

Chtistie never recovered from his public bromance with Obama following Hurricane Sandy. He put a lot of effort into NH, so it's a sign.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Chtistie never recovered from his public bromance with Obama following Hurricane Sandy. He put a lot of effort into NH, so it's a sign.


True, and Pres. Obama mentioned this sort of thing in his speech today, in that compromise and supporting each other is necessary, regardless of party affiliations.


----------



## Dr.G.

It's official now .......... Gov. Christie has suspended his presidential campaign. I think that Ben Carson will be the next one to "pull the pin". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Carson on staying in the race -- CNN

A"fter Carly Fiorina and Chris Christie both suspended their campaigns today after poor finishes in New Hampshire, Ben Carson is soldiering on despite coming in behind both of them, with about half of Fiorina’s votes.
He told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “The Lead” just now that he’s not getting pressure to drop out.
“Not getting any pressure from any of our millions of supporters, I’m getting a lot of pressure to stay in the race,” Carson said. “I think I can win South Carolina.”
And he said his campaign isn’t running out of money.
“We’re doing just fine,” Carson said."


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama is giving an excellent live speech in Springfield, IL. Very honest and open.


Really? Kewl.

I never thought I'd see the day where he actually apologized for lying to the American people all those times, for all his double-speak, for resorting to executive action to push his personal agendas, for not prosecuting Bills' Wife, for creating a national debt larger than all the other presidents combined, for being racially divisive, for having a terrible foreign policy, for having a terrible domestic policy, etc, etc, etc.

That must have been one helluva speech!


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Really? Kewl.
> 
> 
> 
> I never thought I'd see the day where he actually apologized for lying to the American people all those times, for all his double-speak, for resorting to executive action to push his personal agendas, for not prosecuting Bills' Wife, for creating a national debt larger than all the other presidents combined, for being racially divisive, for having a terrible foreign policy, for having a terrible domestic policy, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> That must have been one helluva speech!



Wait a minute. What was the national debt at when George W Bush left office? I think you've got some twisty allegations here.


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----------



## Macfury

If he's admitting to being the worst president of the last half-century, I'll give him full credit. Jimmy Carter would be relieved as well.



FeXL said:


> Really? Kewl.
> 
> I never thought I'd see the day where he actually apologized for lying to the American people all those times, for all his double-speak, for resorting to executive action to push his personal agendas, for not prosecuting Bills' Wife, for creating a national debt larger than all the other presidents combined, for being racially divisive, for having a terrible foreign policy, for having a terrible domestic policy, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> That must have been one helluva speech!


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> It's official now .......... Gov. Christie has suspended his presidential campaign. I think that Ben Carson will be the next one to "pull the pin". We shall see.



What's the difference between suspending one's campaign and dropping out, exactly? 


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----------



## Macfury

Nuthin'.





fjnmusic said:


> What's the difference between suspending one's campaign and dropping out, exactly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Wait a minute. What was the national debt at when George W Bush left office? I think you've got some twisty allegations here.


This was in 2015. It's gone up somewhat since then. Neither figures include money borrowed from Social Security, etc:



> At the end of 2008, the accumulated total of all US Deficits for all administrations since 1789 was *$5.3 Trillion*. For the six years 2009 through 2014, *the Obama Administration has racked up an impressive $6.3 Trillion in deficits which are now more than all of the accumulated deficits before he took office.*


It's Official – Obama's Deficits in 6 Years more than all Prior US Presidents Combined - The Gateway Pundit


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> What's the difference between suspending one's campaign and dropping out, exactly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> Nuthin'.


If you drop out, you can't raise any more money. If you suspend your campaign, you may still raise money from anyone who will give you some financial support.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump ............ to the moon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XriXDtfqCg


----------



## FeXL

Top Clinton adviser sent 'top secret' messages to her private account



> Hillary Clinton's top national security and foreign policy staffer Jake Sullivan was one of the authors of messages that appeared on several Hillary Clinton email chains recently labeled "top secret" by the State Department, according to multiple intelligence sources who have seen the correspondence.
> 
> ...
> 
> *The news that Sullivan was among those sending sensitive information is in some ways unsurprising*, given his position at the State Department and his closeness to Clinton. But if the emails show that he mishandled sensitive information, one of Clinton's closest aides could come in for further investigation and scrutiny by congressional investigators.


M'bold.

BINGO!!! We have a fall guy...


----------



## FeXL

You Don’t Know What Obama Said at the Mosque



> If you seek to understand Barack Obama and his views, the best place to go is his speeches. But you have to read them in their entirety, not rely on hearing them or on the media’s summary of them. *When you do, you come to realize how often what Obama says is morally and intellectually confused and even untrue.*
> 
> The most recent example was his speech last week at a mosque in Baltimore. In addition to reassuring Muslim Americans that they are as American as Americans of every other faith — a point that any president, Republican or Democrat, would and should make — *President Obama spoke a lot of nonsense, some of it dangerous nonsense.*
> 
> President Obama: “So let’s start with this fact: For more than a thousand years, people have been drawn to Islam’s message of peace. And the very word itself, ‘Islam,’ comes from ‘salam’ — peace.”
> 
> Why did Mr. Obama say this? Even Muslim websites acknowledge that “Islam” means “submission” [to Allah], that it comes from the Arabic root “aslama” meaning submission, and that “Islam” is the command form of that verb.
> 
> That’s why “Muslim” means “One who submits,” not “One who is peaceful.”


All emphasis mine.

Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

A rather short list of some of Bill's Wife's accomplishments...

Hillary And The Donald Walk Into Into A Bar... 



> The sad truth is that everything in this entire list of Hillary Clinton 'accomplishments' are true...
> 
> And yet, this woman is leading in the race to become President of the United States (with an avowed socialist a close 2nd)!
> 
> When will Democrat leaders, and the American sheeple who blindly follow them, put patriotism over ideology and realize that what their candidates will do to the country after 8-years of Obama might push our society off of the edge of the cliff?


----------



## MacGuiver

For all the Bernie Fans.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacGuiver said:


> For all the Bernie Fans.


Some of those are the superdelegates. In fact, she already has hundreds of superdelegates committed to her even before there is a primary in their state. So, the people have their say ............ but the elected insiders will have their piece of the pie as well merely for being an elected Democrat rather than an elected delegate.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Some of those are the superdelegates. In fact, she already has hundreds of superdelegates committed to her even before there is a primary in their state. So, the people have their say ............ but the elected insiders will have their piece of the pie as well merely for being an elected Democrat rather than an elected delegate.



I was reading something about that. Hillary has 300 and some and Bernie has like 8. Super delegates already bought and paid for? Nope, that certainly doesn't sound like a corrupt system they've got down there. 


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----------



## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Nope, that certainly doesn't sound like a corrupt system they've got down there.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I was reading something about that. Hillary has 300 and some and Bernie has like 8. Super delegates already bought and paid for? Nope, that certainly doesn't sound like a corrupt system they've got down there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Superdelegates are a percentage of each states Democratic delegation. The superdelegates are made up of members of Congress, governors, and former presidents and representatives. And, unlike delegates, they are not required to indicate preference for a certain candidate and can vote how they please, regardless of how a particular candidate did in the primary in each state.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Reminds me of Mouseland.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwySCMovHk[/ame]


----------



## Rps

Again, it's Iowa and New Hampshire.......let's see what happens when we get into some "real number" primaries.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Again, it's Iowa and New Hampshire.......let's see what happens when we get into some "real number" primaries.


We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Little more back history on Bill's Wife...

Hillary’s Crocodile Tears in Connecticut 



> I have just seen Hillary Clinton and her former Yale law professor both in tears at a campaign rally here in my home state of Connecticut. Her tearful professor said how proud he was that his former student was likely to become our next President. Hillary responded in tears.
> 
> My own reaction was of regret that, *when I terminated her employment on the Nixon impeachment staff, I had not reported her unethical practices to the appropriate bar associations.*


Very interesting read.

Can anybody out there give me a solid reason why this woman should be president?

Related:

Exclusive: Former Obama Defense Intel Chief Says Hillary Should ‘Step Down’



> President Barack Obama’s former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) believes Hillary Clinton should drop out of the presidential race to clear the way for the probe of her private email server by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


More:



> “This is unbelievable,” Flynn said. “I don’t think anybody should be talking about her being potentially the next President of the United States.”


No argument.


----------



## FeXL

I'm not sure where I stand on this. However, I find the results _very_ interesting...

Shock Results of NC’s Drug Testing Welfare Applicants Are Being IGNORED by the Media



> North Carolina has been drug testing welfare recipients since late last year, and the initial numbers were truly astounding.
> 
> The Raleigh News & Observer posted the early results, which showed that of the several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive — which equates to a whopping 24 percent. The 21 positive tests represent fewer than 0.3 percent of the people screened in the Work First welfare program.
> 
> In fact, 70 more recipients were told to participate in the drug testing, but they didn’t show up and therefore received no benefits, according to Breitbart. If half of them refused to participate because of drug use — and this is only speculation — the total of illegal drug users kept from receiving benefits by this program would be more like 35 percent.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read.

Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote



> From the crime bill to welfare reform, policies Bill Clinton enacted—and Hillary Clinton supported—decimated black America.


Nah...


----------



## CubaMark

Moreso than the chosen candidates of political parties, and even who is chosen as President, changes on the USSC have enormous _domestic_ implications.

*Antonin Scalia, U.S. Supreme Court justice, dead at 79*










Conservative U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, 79, has died.

"On behalf of the court and retired justices, I am saddened to report that our colleague Justice Antonin Scalia has passed away," said Chief Justice John Roberts in a statement on Saturday afternoon.

The U.S. Marshals Service in Washington said Scalia died at a private residence in the Big Bend area of South Texas.

The service's spokeswoman, Donna Sellers, said he had retired Friday evening and was found dead Saturday morning when he did not appear for breakfast.

Scalia, appointed to the top U.S. court in 1986 by President Ronald Reagan, was known for his strident conservative views and theatrical flair in the courtroom.

His death comes as the court is set to hear its first major abortion case in nearly 10 years, and ahead of key cases on voting rights, affirmative action and immigration.​
(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

That's a shame as Obama will appoint another hack to the office.


----------



## SINC

Not so fast, the house may hold off Obama for the balance of the year to stymie any attempt for him to appoint his choice, which is likely good for the future.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## FeXL

No one to blame but themselves...

How seven years of Obama created Trump



> Mr Obama was elected promising to end such misery: but he hasn’t, and he never would. America has astonishing wealth: it also has astonishing deprivation and squalor, because there isn’t enough well-paid work to go round. I don’t know Milwaukee, but am familiar with cities such as Baltimore, Newark and Trenton on the east coast, which have square miles of squalor on a scale unknown in Britain. Detroit teeters on the verge of extinction: in thriving cities such as Los Angeles and Washington DC pockets of affluence sit cheek-by-jowl with areas of appalling poverty and crime.
> 
> Racial tensions, which a black president was supposed to heal, seem worse than ever – remember Ferguson – and Mr Obama’s interventions have often been clumsy and grandstanding. He has failed to control immigration, even though (unlike in Britain) he has the sovereign power to do so. And America has largely rejected Obamacare, which displays all that can go wrong with massive state intervention.
> 
> But if Mr Obama’s economic legacy is poor, his other achievements – or failings – are alarming. He has largely removed America from international conversations. After the disastrous interventions in the Islamic world after 2001 it is quite right it should think more deeply about such expeditions: but that does not mean the superpower’s global responsibility can be abdicated completely. The Kerry intervention in Syria last week was typically, and tragically, late. Mr Obama’s international legacy is the repulsive sight of Vladimir Putin, whom he underestimated, ruling the roost, the barbarians of Isil (for dealing with whom he had no strategy) and a Europe mired in introspection.


He sums:



> *For much of America, Barack Obama is the last straw. He is the creator of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.* If one of them becomes president – and I wouldn’t rule it out – and the world doesn’t like it, they know whom to blame.


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/15/opinion/how-america-was-lost.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur

An interesting read. There was also an interesting item on CNN about how Justice Scalia suggested to David Axelrod, in Pres. Obama's second year in office, the name of Judge Kagan to fill a vacancy on the court. Pres. Obama chose Sotomeyer first, but later named Kagan to the Supreme Court. Scalia wanted an intellectual like Kagan on the court. While I disagree with Justice Scalia's view on most issues, I feel that he shall be missed.

David Axelrod: A surprise request from Justice Scalia - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Rubio's ‘Morning in America' ad appears to feature Vancouver - The Globe and Mail

Rubio is using Cruz's country of birth in part of his ads. Way to go!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

If Donald Trump wins U.S. presidency, Cape Breton pitched as refuge for Americans - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Guess this is one way we might increase the population of Nova Scotia. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Finally understanding that Common Core math...

Sanders supporters discovering superdelegates rigged against them



> It took them long enough! Perhaps naively believing the all the fine rhetoric Democrats use to mask their embrace of crony capitalism, the young supporters of Bernie Sanders assumed that by getting a 22% margin of victory in New Hampshire their guy would win a majority of delegates. I have warned them, and now they are catching on.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Huh. Finally understanding that Common Core math...
> 
> Sanders supporters discovering superdelegates rigged against them


Sadly, old news. Clinton had the lock of the superdelegates before the primaries even started.


----------



## FeXL

I agree. 

However, I don't believe that Sanders' Millennial supporters knew exactly what that meant.


----------



## FeXL

I'm not subscribing to the whole conspiracy theory thing. That said, there are a number of procedural issues that beg questions.

Conspiracy theories swirl around the death of Antonin Scalia



> _“You have a Supreme Court Justice who died, not in attendance of a physician,” he wrote. “You have a non-homicide trained US Marshal tell the justice of peace that no foul play was observed. You have a justice of the peace pronounce death while not being on the scene and without any medical training opining that the justice died of a heart attack. What medical proof exists of a myocardial Infarction? Why not a cerebral hemorrhage?”​_


----------



## heavyall

FeXL said:


> Huh. Finally understanding that Common Core math...
> 
> Sanders supporters discovering superdelegates rigged against them


The whole American electoral system is rigged. It's corrupt by design.


----------



## FeXL

heavyall said:


> The whole American electoral system is rigged. It's corrupt by design.


Ya know, I always thought I had at least a fundamental understanding of the American electoral system. I gotta tell ya, with "superdelegates" & "Electoral Colleges" and who knows just what the hell else, I realize I don't have a clue.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Ya know, I always thought I had at least a fundamental understanding of the American electoral system. I gotta tell ya, with "superdelegates" & "Electoral Colleges" and who knows just what the hell else, I realize I don't have a clue.


Actually, it is not all that difficult to understand. I explained this to my wife in about five minutes. She is not convinced that these two aspects of presidential elections are good ideas, but at least she now understands why she feels this way. 

Full disclosure -- she believes it is right that the Queen is Canada's constitutional monarch, while I don't. She is only a Canadian citizen while I hold both US and Canadian citizenship.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> If Donald Trump wins U.S. presidency, Cape Breton pitched as refuge for Americans - Nova Scotia - CBC News
> 
> Guess this is one way we might increase the population of Nova Scotia. We shall see.


I am the only one who thinks Donald Teump looks like a reject from "A Flock of Seagulls"?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I am the only one who thinks Donald Teump looks like a reject from "A Flock of Seagulls"?


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Well, he is somewhat of a "Toiler on the Sea", dredging up all sorts of "items" in his nets.


----------



## heavyall

Rps said:


> I am the only one who thinks Donald Teump looks like a reject from "A Flock of Seagulls"?


Think of the press conferences if he wins.

Reporter: "Mr. President, can you give us your take on the current situation in the middle east with respect to oil prices?"

Trump: "Iran. Iran, so far away."


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

For the dancing bug, that one is actually funny. The last panel is rather unlikely though.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

What troubles me more than anything else is that it is entirely possible that Americans could elect Trump in much the same manner that Albertans accidentally elected Notley here last May.


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

CM: Why do you misuse the term fascist so freely?
CM & FJN: I notice that you're making fun of someone's appearance again. Nice going.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> CM: Why do you misuse the term fascist so freely?
> 
> CM & FJN: I notice that you're making fun of someone's appearance again. Nice going.



It's not his appearance so much as the mixed messages he sends out with his facial expressions. Is he happy or sad? GI upset perhaps? He seems to have a rather pained countenance. Do you have no sense of ha ha?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

This is what he looks like. I guess you find his appearance something to laugh at.



fjnmusic said:


> It's not his appearance so much as the mixed messages he sends out with his facial expressions. Is he happy or sad? GI upset perhaps? He seems to have a rather pained countenance. Do you have no sense of ha ha?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

With the tables turned, Obama now 'regrets' his 2006 Alito filibuster

And, a little more related history...

Dems Passed A 1960 Resolution To Prevent Supreme Court Appointment Ahead Of Election



> While Democrats in the upper chamber – including Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York and former Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, both of which called for blocking former President George W. Bush’s nominations – have slammed the GOP for its decision not to consider a nominee until after a new president is elected, Democrats have not always held that stance. The Democrat-controlled Senate passed a resolution in 1960 preventing a recess appointment, much to the dismay of Republicans.


Plus, a little fact sheet.

Hypocrites...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

At the time, both Reagan and Thatcher were correct.


----------



## Dr.G.

MCAFEE: I'll decrypt San Bernardino phone free - Business Insider

Interesting. I did not know that John McAfee is running for president in the US as a member of the Libertarian Party.


----------



## Macfury

It is a respectable approach--he will hack the one phone so the FBI cannot spy on all Apple users.



Dr.G. said:


> MCAFEE: I'll decrypt San Bernardino phone free - Business Insider
> 
> Interesting. I did not know that John McAfee is running for president in the US as a member of the Libertarian Party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is a respectable approach--he will hack the one phone so the FBI cannot spy on all Apple users.


Maybe he is trying to get the Apple user votes throughout America?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Trudeau misses the entire point of Trump's appeal to Christians. He's so mired in his own viewpoint he can't see the obvious.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Trudeau misses the entire point of Trump's appeal to Christians. He's so mired in his own viewpoint he can't see the obvious.



What? That Republican Christians are hypocrites? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



That was great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Chissitanity hasn't exactly been a topic in which you've claimed any expertise, fjn



fjnmusic said:


> What? That Republican Christians are hypocrites?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Chissitanity hasn't exactly been a topic in which you've claimed any expertise, fjn



No you're right. I know nothing about Chissitanity. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Serves me right for posting without my glasses on.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Serves me right for posting without my glasses on.


Rose colored glasses?  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Nice...

EPA’s ‘Porn Addicts, Office Thieves And Drunk Drivers’ Blasted By Congressman



> Rep. Paul Gosar blasted the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Thursday after The Daily Caller News Foundation reported the agency’s record of letting anonymous employees who devour porn and steal on the job go right back to work.
> 
> “The employee integrity cases released this week by the EPA Office of Inspector General further corroborate a culture of corruption at this lawless agency,” Gosar told TheDCNF. “This collection of porn addicts, office thieves and drunk drivers are not fit to run for dog-catcher, much less manage a federal agency.”


Good enough for gov't work, I guess.

Further:



> Gosar added that “if EPA employees would have been doing their jobs instead of watching porn, they might have reported sooner that the water in Flint, Michigan, was poisoned.”


Ouch...


----------



## SINC

Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

The number of white dudes becoming federal judges has plummeted under Obama:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-federal-judges-has-plummeted-under-obama/


----------



## FeXL

Well, it's a start.

BOOM: Clinton Foundation Receives Surprise Subpoena, This Could Be HUGE…



> Hillary Clinton's web of intrigue and suspicious activity appears to be even more tightly knit than anyone previously thought. Not only is she under investigation for use of a private email server, but Clinton's involvement in the Clinton Foundation is now under scrutiny.


More:



> Because of those slippery donations, the State Department recently subpoenaed documents from the Clinton Foundation regarding monies given out to charity projects that should have received government vetting but didn't.
> 
> In particular, the subpoena targeted Huma Abedin, Hillary's longtime confidant and helper in her political aspirations. Abedin is under fire because of her interesting work situation in 2012 which may have violated State Department guidelines.
> 
> It turns out that Abedin, Hillary's right hand woman, was employed by the State Department, the Clinton Foundation, Hillary Clinton personally, and a consulting firm that is effectively run by the Clinton Foundation. That's not even double-dipping, that's quadruple-dipping.


----------



## SINC

Sarah being Sarah! 

Sarah Palin: Steve Jobs Should Be Charged With Treason For Not Helping The FBI


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me sum irony in the morning...


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1060674007358986/

Interesting. Have to admit that I never watched this show.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1060674007358986/
> 
> Interesting. Have to admit that I never watched this show.


Ouch--she's really chewing the scenery!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ouch--she's really chewing the scenery!


Yes. It was as she was talking to Ben Carson.


----------



## FeXL

Nice. And these people, who can't even keep track of their own badges, cell phones & weapons, are s'pose to take care of homeland security?

House committee pressing DHS for answers over missing guns, badges



> House Republicans are pressing the Department of Homeland Security for answers following a FoxNews.com report that hundreds of badges, cell phones and guns belonging to DHS employees were lost or stolen.
> 
> ...
> 
> Inventory reports obtained by the news site Complete Colorado and shared with FoxNews.com showed that over *1,300 badges, 165 firearms and 589 cell phones were lost or stolen over the span of 31 months between 2012 and 2015.* The DHS did not dispute the inventory report data.


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders Makes Stunning Statement On His Spirituality

Interesting and very moving.


----------



## FeXL

From the "Department of the Bleeding Obvious"...

John Kerry On Freed Gitmo Detainee Now Recruiting For Al Qaeda: ‘He’s Not Supposed To Be Doing That’



> Senator Mark Kirk...expressed the opinion that the U.S. shouldn’t be releasing terrorists to terrorist nations, because the terrorists just go back to doing what they were doing before they went to Gitmo.
> 
> And the indomitable John Kerry’s response will echo throughout the halls of Eternity:
> 
> *“Well, uh, Senator, he’s not supposed to be doing that.”*


M'bold.

Ya think?!


----------



## Macster Blaster

SINC said:


> Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
> 
> The number of white dudes becoming federal judges has plummeted under Obama:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-federal-judges-has-plummeted-under-obama/


How dare you even vocalize this thought crime?

Check your privilege, ****lord.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Must be the result of Obama's Iran nuke "deal."



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Bernie Sanders Makes Stunning Statement On His Spirituality
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting and very moving.



Thanks for this, Dr. G. This is one of the many reasons I admire the guy. I'm going to borrow this link for the Progressive thread. Bernie Sanders to me embodies what is the essence of progressivism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Typical "progressive." I might side with him personally, but then he wants to force other people to bend to his conscience through regulation--and that is not cool.



fjnmusic said:


> Thanks for this, Dr. G. This is one of the many reasons I admire the guy. I'm going to borrow this link for the Progressive thread. Bernie Sanders to me embodies what is the essence of progressivism.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macster Blaster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaiOfP2ytiU


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Typical "progressive." I might side with him personally, but then he wants to force other people to bend to his conscience through regulation--and that is not cool.



No more uncool than getting taxpayers to pay for a wall on the Mexican border. Every winning politician is going to put through regulations that a good chunk of the population doesn't like. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Securing the border is an essential part of a country's existence. 

However, Mexico is going to pay for it.



fjnmusic said:


> No more uncool than getting taxpayers to pay for a wall on the Mexican border. Every winning politician is going to put through regulations that a good chunk of the population doesn't like.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Securing the border is an essential part of a country's existence.
> 
> However, Mexico is going to pay for it.


It's really quite surreal... the total disconnect between people who are screaming about securing the US-Mexico border and those who have a friggin' clue.

Net migration Mexico--> USA in 2015 was zero, if not negative.

Massive deportations, the tanking US economy, an increasingly (private) militarized border, stepped up interdictions.... the only Mexicans who are trying to cross the border now are folks who are extremely desperate or have family in the USA from whom they desperately wish to reunite. The waves of poor Mexican workers taking US jobs? Ain't happening anymore. The only slice of Mexican-->USA migration that has ticked upward (and this is only slightly) is that group of highly educated Mexicans who are emigrating legally (the classic 'brain drain' scenario). 

Mexico also doesn't get enough credit for the enormous effort (and expense) put into interdicting Central American migrants who attempt to cross Mexican territory on their way north. For a country whose economy is also crashing (and about to go straight down the toilet with the privatization of the petroleum market), it's an major commitment.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Net migration Mexico--> USA in 2015 was zero, if not negative.


And your source on this?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> And your source on this?


You can begin with this report from November 2015, which shows the trend for the past six years:

_....the Pew report found that from 2009 to 2014, slightly more than a million Mexicans and their families — including about 100,000 children younger than 5 who were American citizens born in the United States — returned to live in Mexico. In the same period, an estimated 870,000 Mexicans came here, resulting in an outflow of about 140,000._
(NYTimes)​


----------



## Macfury

I thought so.

The Pew survey documents net migration of *legal* immigrants not illegal.



CubaMark said:


> You can begin with this report from November 2015, which shows the trend for the past six years:
> 
> _....the Pew report found that from 2009 to 2014, slightly more than a million Mexicans and their families — including about 100,000 children younger than 5 who were American citizens born in the United States — returned to live in Mexico. In the same period, an estimated 870,000 Mexicans came here, resulting in an outflow of about 140,000._
> (NYTimes)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I thought so.
> 
> The Pew survey documents net migration of *legal* immigrants not illegal.


You are incorrect.

...stricter enforcement of U.S. immigration laws, particularly at the U.S.-Mexico border (Rosenblum and Meissner, 2014), may have contributed to the reduction of Mexican immigrants coming to the U.S. in recent years. According to one indicator, U.S. *border apprehensions of Mexicans* have fallen sharply, to just 230,000 in fiscal year 2014 – a level not seen since 1971 (Krogstad and Passel, 2014). At the same time, increased enforcement in the U.S. has led to *an increase in the number of Mexican immigrants who have been deported *from the U.S. since 2005 (U.S. Department of Homeland Security, 2014).

A majority of the 1 million who left the U.S. for Mexico between 2009 and 2014 left of their own accord, according to the Mexican government’s ENADID survey data. The Mexican survey also showed that six in ten (61%) return migrants – those who reported they had been living in the U.S. five years earlier but as of 2014 were back in Mexico – cited family reunification as the main reason for their return. By comparison, 14% of Mexico’s return migrants said the reason for their return was deportation from the U.S.​


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> ...in recent years. According to one indicator, U.S. *border apprehensions of Mexicans* have fallen sharply


Which is why greater security is needed -- the US is not able to catch as many of them as the used to.


----------



## CubaMark

heavyall said:


> Which is why greater security is needed -- the US is not able to catch as many of them as the used to.


No, you are also incorrect. The numbers of those attempting to enter are down, thus fewer apprehensions. 

Security along the border has been increased; since at least 2012 border patrols have begun installing radar-equipped dirigibles to enhance detection. Here's one report from 2015.


----------



## Macfury

You cited Pew, which did not measure illegal immigration. Don't try to wiggle out of your error.

Here are some figures on *illegal* immigration:



> Center for Immigration Studies analysis of Census Bureau data indicates that an additional 790,000 aliens joined the illegal population from the middle of 2013 to May of 2015, for a total of 2.5 million new illegal immigrants since President Obama took office in January of 2009 — 300,000 to 400,000 a year.


2.5 Million Join Illegal Population under Obama | Center for Immigration Studies



CubaMark said:


> You are incorrect.
> 
> ...stricter enforcement of U.S. immigration laws, particularly at the U.S.-Mexico border (Rosenblum and Meissner, 2014), may have contributed to the reduction of Mexican immigrants coming to the U.S. in recent years. According to one indicator, U.S. *border apprehensions of Mexicans* have fallen sharply, to just 230,000 in fiscal year 2014 – a level not seen since 1971 (Krogstad and Passel, 2014). At the same time, increased enforcement in the U.S. has led to *an increase in the number of Mexican immigrants who have been deported *from the U.S. since 2005 (U.S. Department of Homeland Security, 2014).
> 
> A majority of the 1 million who left the U.S. for Mexico between 2009 and 2014 left of their own accord, according to the Mexican government’s ENADID survey data. The Mexican survey also showed that six in ten (61%) return migrants – those who reported they had been living in the U.S. five years earlier but as of 2014 were back in Mexico – cited family reunification as the main reason for their return. By comparison, 14% of Mexico’s return migrants said the reason for their return was deportation from the U.S.​


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> It's really quite surreal... the total disconnect between people who are screaming about securing the US-Mexico border and those who have a friggin' clue.
> 
> 
> 
> Net migration Mexico--> USA in 2015 was zero, if not negative.
> 
> 
> 
> Massive deportations, the tanking US economy, an increasingly (private) militarized border, stepped up interdictions.... the only Mexicans who are trying to cross the border now are folks who are extremely desperate or have family in the USA from whom they desperately wish to reunite. The waves of poor Mexican workers taking US jobs? Ain't happening anymore. The only slice of Mexican-->USA migration that has ticked upward (and this is only slightly) is that group of highly educated Mexicans who are emigrating legally (the classic 'brain drain' scenario).
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico also doesn't get enough credit for the enormous effort (and expense) put into interdicting Central American migrants who attempt to cross Mexican territory on their way north. For a country whose economy is also crashing (and about to go straight down the toilet with the privatization of the petroleum market), it's an major commitment.



Easy, Mark. Never let facts get in the way of a good story. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Bernie Sanders Makes Stunning Statement On His Spirituality
> 
> Interesting and very moving.





fjnmusic said:


> Thanks for this, Dr. G. This is one of the many reasons I admire the guy. I'm going to borrow this link for the Progressive thread. Bernie Sanders to me embodies what is the essence of progressivism.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I generally don't follow much American Politics because for the most part I think it insane (too many points to make on the subject on a PF).

BUT... what this man said was for the most part very impressive...

Linking to the Kindness and Respect thread as I think it fits right in.


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> No, you are also incorrect. The numbers of those attempting to enter are down, thus fewer apprehensions.


Seriously? How does one quantify the number of people that DON'T get found out?


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> I generally don't follow much American Politics because for the most part I think it insane (too many points to make on the subject on a PF).
> 
> BUT... what this man said was for the most part very impressive...
> 
> Linking to the Kindness and Respect thread as I think it fits right in.


A valid point, screature. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

You just keep squawking about legal immigration figures as though they're illegal immigration figures and hope nobody notices.

"Progressives" keep focusing on anger over "the wall" because it would probably work.



heavyall said:


> Seriously? How does one quantify the number of people that DON'T get found out?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You cited Pew, which did not measure illegal immigration. Don't try to wiggle out of your error.
> 
> Here are some figures on *illegal* immigration:
> 
> 2.5 Million Join Illegal Population under Obama | Center for Immigration Studies


Jeebus. If I told you the sky was blue you'd argue for mauve just for argument's sake.

The right-wing CIS' spin on migration to the USA doesn't interest me. I prefer data backed up by a trustworthy organization with, you know, methodology and facts.

PEW does indeed measure "illegal" immigration. It's quite plainly stated. 

Here is a visual expression of their findings:








There has been a massive shift in migratory patterns, which is undeniable. PEW is not the only source to back this up.

And what happens if all the Mexicans 'go home'?





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The right-wing CIS' spin on migration to the USA doesn't interest me. I prefer data backed up by a trustworthy organization with, you know, methodology and facts.



Information contrary to your meme doesn't interest you. I get it. My point was that you plainly provided legal numbers while arguing that they represented illegal numbers.

Even your latter day figure on illegal immigration stops at 2014--why not go a year further?




CubaMark said:


> And what happens if all the Mexicans 'go home'?


US employment would rise and those industries currently paying low wages to illegals would be forced to raise them to attract American workers. That would make some American products more expensive. Some overburdened social services in border states would also experience financial relief. 

No big deal.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Information contrary to your meme doesn't interest you. I get it. My point was that you plainly provided legal numbers while arguing that they represented illegal numbers.


You keep saying this, but that doesn't make it fact. Feel free to provide, y'know, actual _data_.



Macfury said:


> Even your latter day figure on illegal immigration stops at 2014--why not go a year further?


Please - if you can find updated data, I'm happy to look at it. But insofar as I am aware (and PEW itself notes this) the collection of data on migration isn't something that can be done in a half-hour by surfing the web. Their methodology included reviewing census data, public surveys, etc. These things take time.



Macfury said:


> US employment would rise and those industries currently paying low wages to illegals would be forced to raise them to attract American workers. That would make some American products more expensive. Some overburdened social services in border states would also experience financial relief.
> 
> No big deal.


Uh-huh. And all you guys who freak out when someone proposes a $0.05 / hour raise in the minimum wage so people can, y'know, _live_... somehow that ideology is tossed out the window when you need to justify tossing migrants out of the country....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Uh-huh. And all you guys who freak out when someone proposes a $0.05 / hour raise in the minimum wage so people can, y'know, _live_... somehow that ideology is tossed out the window when you need to justify tossing migrants out of the country....


I don't believe in government-set wages. No conflict there. However, I do believe that illegal aliens are part of a massive subsidy to businesses who don't want to pay wages that would attract American workers.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't believe in government-set wages. No conflict there. However, I do believe that illegal aliens are part of a massive subsidy to businesses who don't want to pay wages that would attract American workers.



Hmmm. And what kind of wages do you think would attract American workers? Something more than the minimum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*DNC Vice-Chair Resigns, Endorses Bernie Sanders*

_...today, the DNC Vice-Chair resigned to put her support behind Sanders.

U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard from Hawaii announced on Sunday that she will resign and endorse Bernie Sanders for president.

“I think it’s most important for us, as we look at our choices as to who our next commander in chief will be, to recognize the necessity to have a commander in chief who has foresight, who exercises good judgment,” 

* * *​
“There is a clear contrast between our two candidates with regard to my strong belief that we must end the interventionist, regime-change policies that have cost us so much,” the e-mail reads. “This is not just another ‘issue.’ This is THE issue, and it’s deeply personal to me. This is why I’ve decided to resign as Vice Chair of the DNC so that I can support Bernie Sanders in his efforts to earn the Democratic nomination in the 2016 presidential race.”

She also cites her experience as a two-time war veteran as a major reason she supports Sanders. She believes he has the sound judgement required to know when to use America’s military._​
(USUncut)


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *DNC Vice-Chair Resigns, Endorses Bernie Sanders*
> 
> 
> 
> _...today, the DNC Vice-Chair resigned to put her support behind Sanders.
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard from Hawaii announced on Sunday that she will resign and endorse Bernie Sanders for president.
> 
> 
> 
> “I think it’s most important for us, as we look at our choices as to who our next commander in chief will be, to recognize the necessity to have a commander in chief who has foresight, who exercises good judgment,”
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> “There is a clear contrast between our two candidates with regard to my strong belief that we must end the interventionist, regime-change policies that have cost us so much,” the e-mail reads. “This is not just another ‘issue.’ This is THE issue, and it’s deeply personal to me. This is why I’ve decided to resign as Vice Chair of the DNC so that I can support Bernie Sanders in his efforts to earn the Democratic nomination in the 2016 presidential race.”
> 
> 
> 
> She also cites her experience as a two-time war veteran as a major reason she supports Sanders. She believes he has the sound judgement required to know when to use America’s military._​
> 
> 
> (USUncut)



Awesome! Not to mention easy on the eyes too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Yes.



fjnmusic said:


> Hmmm. And what kind of wages do you think would attract American workers? Something more than the minimum?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Yes.



Care to elaborate? How much would be enough? How much might, say, constitute a living wage for an American? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Game Change: Jeff Sessions Endorses Trump from Stage in Alabama; Stunning Event Unites Populist, Nationalist Movement



> 2016 GOP presidential frontrunner billionaire *Donald Trump picked up the most significant endorsement any presidential candidate in the GOP can get* here on Sunday:
> Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL)
> 
> Sessions, the intellectual leader of the future of the conservative movement, has provided the brainpower behind the populist nationalist revolt against political elites that’s been emerging since at least 2013.


M'bold.

Trump/Cruz, 2016.


----------



## FeXL

Why should MF elaborate when, for instance, you never do?

Jes' askin...



fjnmusic said:


> Care to elaborate?


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting ......
https://www.facebook.com/thenational/videos/10153265109812686/

Cute ........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemqVWi_R0k


----------



## CubaMark

I admit to no small amount of Schadenfreude with Trump's success. The GOP is coming apart at the seams. 

*Donors ask GOP consulting firm to research independent presidential bid*

_A group of Republicans is moving quickly to research ballot-access requirements for independent candidates in case Trump wraps up the GOP nomination next month._

Conservative donors have engaged a major GOP consulting firm in Florida to research the feasibility of mounting a late, independent run for president amid growing fears that Donald Trump could win the Republican nomination.

A memo prepared for the group zeroes in on ballot access as a looming obstacle for any independent candidate, along with actually identifying a viable, widely known contender and coalescing financial support for that person.​
(Politico)


----------



## FeXL

I agree. However, all American politicians of all stripes have done this to themselves. Go Trump! 



CubaMark said:


> I admit to no small amount of Schadenfreude with Trump's success.


----------



## Dr.G.

Like where are the Eugene Mccarthy stickers? Feel the Bern and keep the faith.


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the issue. Unless, of course, the whiners end up heading north. 

I s'pose they could always claim refugee status...

Cage Match USA: The State of the Election



> it appears there will once again be a parade of celebrities leaving the country if Trump wins. This time the émigrés will include Whoopie Goldberg and Al Sharpton.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Cute ........
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemqVWi_R0k


I'll see your Lane & Broderick, and raise you an Oliver:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I'll see your Lane & Broderick, and raise you an Oliver:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Good one ........... :clap::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Trump has repeatedly rebuked David Duke. This is your Trump Derangement Syndrome talking, CM.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Trump has repeatedly rebuked David Duke. This is your Trump Derangement Syndrome talking, CM.


:lmao: Oh yeah, *my* TDS. Have you looked at the news lately?

Trump did indeed disavow Duke... 16 years ago:

_ In 2000, Trump considered running for the Reform Party presidential nomination but did not run because he said he did not want to be associated with Pat Buchanan, who had left the Republican Party to seek the Reform Party nomination, and David Duke, who supported Buchanan. Trump at the time called Duke “a bigot, a racist, a problem.”_​
But now that Trump is close to cinching the GOP nomination, it looks like he doesn't want to alienate any voters: (*EDIT*: _Corrected link_)

Asked if he would repudiate an endorsement from Duke, he replied: "Sure."

"I would do that if it would make you feel better," he said, adding "I don't know anything about him."

* * *​
“Well just so you understanding, I don’t know anything about David Duke, or anything about what you’re even talking about with White Supremacy or White Supremacists,” Trump replied. “So I don’t know.”

Tapper pressed further.

“But, I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you, would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and don’t want their support.”

“Well I’d have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about,” Trump said.

Trump said that if he had access to a list of the individuals and groups that support him, he would research them to determine whether or not their actions and beliefs merited his condemnation.

“Certainly I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong,” he assured.

Tapper then asked Trump to comment only on David Duke or the Ku Klux Klan and whether or not he would be willing to reject their endorsement.

“Honestly, I don’t know David Duke,” Trump replied. “I don’t believe I’ve ever met him … and I just don’t know anything about him.”​
*Related:* Donald Trump Declines Three Chances To Disavow David Duke _Trump distanced himself from Duke in 2000, but wouldn't do so Sunday._


----------



## Macfury

.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

That video was published Friday, Feb. 26th. The text I cited above from _The Blaze_ referenced CNN's "State of the Union" program on Sunday, February 28th.

Drumph has a terrible time keeping his message straight, doesn't he?


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


>





Macfury said:


> Trump has repeatedly rebuked David Duke. This is your Trump Derangement Syndrome talking, CM.


When it came to Harper Derangement Syndrome I would definitely agree with you, but not when it comes to Trump... He is an accident waiting to happen when it comes to domestic and foreign policy. Woe be tide to the US and the rest of the world if he should ever become the President of the United States.

Hopefully the US public will not fall for his snake oil policies.


----------



## CubaMark

*The latest poll results are interesting...*

Who would win: Clinton (46.5) vs Trump (43.5)

Who would win: Sanders (49.8) vs Trump (41.8)


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


>


Both statements are correct depending upon who you talk to at a given point in time...


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> *The latest poll results are interesting...*
> 
> Who would win: Clinton (46.5) vs Trump (43.5)
> 
> Who would win: Sanders (49.8) vs Trump (41.8)


That is freaking scarily close either way.


----------



## CubaMark

screature said:


> Both statements are correct depending upon who you talk to at a given point in time...


I guess this was before the age of electronic encyclopaedias and dictionaries, when the Right-wing had to wait for the paper copies of their reference books to be updated for the modern age. They certainly continued to believe those definitions long after the rest of the world (aka "those of us who live in, you know, _reality_") moved on.


----------



## CubaMark

_Hey, MF - I'm not the only one with TDS, it seems!_

*House Speaker Paul Ryan calls out Donald Trump on KKK*

House Speaker Paul Ryan called out Donald Trump on Tuesday for failing to denounce white supremacist groups over the weekend.

"If a person wants to be the nominee of the Republican Party, there can be no evasion and no games. They must reject any group or cause that is built on bigotry. This party does not prey on people's prejudices," Ryan told reporters on Capitol Hill.

Congressional Democrats also began to seize on the issue Tuesday to argue that Trump's views represented his party as a whole.

"The leading Republican presidential candidate's refusal to disavow the KKK was a breathtaking low-point for our country," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said in a statement. "Yet while Donald Trump's radical agenda does not reflect the values of the American people, it is a perfect reflection of many in the House Republican Conference."

In an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper on Sunday, Trump declined to disavow support from David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, claiming he didn't know anything about the group.

He later complained he didn't hear the questions in the interview because of a "bad earpiece."​ :lmao:

(CNN)


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> I guess this was before the age of electronic encyclopaedias and dictionaries, when the Right-wing had to wait for the paper copies of their reference books to be updated for the modern age. They certainly continued to believe those definitions long after the rest of the world (aka "those of us who live in, you know, _reality_") moved on.


Not really, it is pretty recent relatively speaking. Like I said it depended upon who you talked to at the time and not in foresight. Just keeping it real without the "comedic rhetoric".

Sometimes CM you seem to think that when a person adds a point they are disagreeing with you in a substantial way. Sometimes it is only a matter of details and historical correctness that does not reflect upon whether or not one agrees with your more basic and general premise.

I know things get heated here but just chill once in a while. it is good for polite conversation...


----------



## CubaMark

screature said:


> Not really, it is pretty recent relatively speaking. Like I said it depended upon who you talked to at the time and not in foresight. Just keeping it real without the "comedic rhetoric".
> 
> Sometimes CM you seem to think that when a person adds a point they are disagreeing with you in a substantial way. Sometimes it is only a matter of details and historical correctness that does not reflect upon whether or not one agrees with your more basic and general premise.
> 
> I know things get heated here but just chill once in a while. it is good for polite conversation...


Sorry, screature - I didn't intend for that to be a comment directed to you, but on the general Right perspective. I do agree - our views of figures such as these do change over time, shaped by the media, the folks who influence the media, etc. But "the Left" saw Mandela as a freedom fighter loooooooong before the Right ever did. Bin Laden, given the scarcity of folks on the Left who even knew who he was, led to rather late recognition of his true nature.

And yes, with my own flavour of comedic intent. My wife tells me it's sometimes not apparent. I've been chocking that up to cross-cultural / linguistic factors, but maybe I do need to be more explicit


----------



## CubaMark

Last one for today. I'm wasting far too much time on this clown.










*Related:*

1927 news report: Donald Trump's dad arrested in KKK brawl with cops
Donald Trump denies his father was arrested after 1927 Ku Klux Klan brawl
Trump's grandfather was a pimp and tax evader; his father a member of the KKK


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: Oh yeah, *my* TDS. Have you looked at the news lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Trump did indeed disavow Duke... 16 years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> _ In 2000, Trump considered running for the Reform Party presidential nomination but did not run because he said he did not want to be associated with Pat Buchanan, who had left the Republican Party to seek the Reform Party nomination, and David Duke, who supported Buchanan. Trump at the time called Duke “a bigot, a racist, a problem.”_​
> 
> 
> But now that Trump is close to cinching the GOP nomination, it looks like he doesn't want to alienate any voters: (*EDIT*: _Corrected link_)
> 
> 
> 
> Asked if he would repudiate an endorsement from Duke, he replied: "Sure."
> 
> 
> 
> "I would do that if it would make you feel better," he said, adding "I don't know anything about him."
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> “Well just so you understanding, I don’t know anything about David Duke, or anything about what you’re even talking about with White Supremacy or White Supremacists,” Trump replied. “So I don’t know.”
> 
> 
> 
> Tapper pressed further.
> 
> 
> 
> “But, I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you, would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and don’t want their support.”
> 
> 
> 
> “Well I’d have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about,” Trump said.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump said that if he had access to a list of the individuals and groups that support him, he would research them to determine whether or not their actions and beliefs merited his condemnation.
> 
> 
> 
> “Certainly I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong,” he assured.
> 
> 
> 
> Tapper then asked Trump to comment only on David Duke or the Ku Klux Klan and whether or not he would be willing to reject their endorsement.
> 
> 
> 
> “Honestly, I don’t know David Duke,” Trump replied. “I don’t believe I’ve ever met him … and I just don’t know anything about him.”​
> 
> 
> *Related:* Donald Trump Declines Three Chances To Disavow David Duke _Trump distanced himself from Duke in 2000, but wouldn't do so Sunday._



And then the cock crowed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

I find it interesting (and hypocritical, no surprise) that you get your nose out of joint when the Democrats part in slavery is brought up yet you have no qualms dredging up nearly century old stories about politicians' relatives that you consider to be issues.

I want this so-called clown to become POTUS, if for no other reason than to see Progressive heads exploding worldwide..



CubaMark said:


> Last one for today. I'm wasting far too much time on this clown.


----------



## CubaMark

Remind me of what I posted regarding Democrats and slavery? I don't recall....


----------



## Macfury

You "progs" are far too obsessed with public avowals and disavowals. Normal people don't think like that. You know, people who live in the _real_ world.


----------



## eMacMan

Several he said reports floating in about Diebold Machines flipping Trump votes over to Rubio.

No surprise really, except those machines should have long since been relegated to the trash heap.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> Sorry, screature - I didn't intend for that to be a comment directed to you, but on the general Right perspective. I do agree - our views of figures such as these do change over time, shaped by the media, the folks who influence the media, etc. But "the Left" saw Mandela as a freedom fighter loooooooong before the Right ever did. Bin Laden, given the scarcity of folks on the Left who even knew who he was, led to rather late recognition of his true nature.
> 
> And yes, with my own flavour of comedic intent. My wife tells me it's sometimes not apparent. I've been chocking that up to cross-cultural / linguistic factors, but maybe I do need to be more explicit


No worries Mark...

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist, same as it always was and I suspect ever will be.

The "sands of time" tend to erode or magnify those differences as history is retold, especially depending on who is telling the story... 

God, I sound like I am writing for some daytime soap opera so I will stop talking now.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Hey, MF - I'm not the only one with TDS, it seems!_


Ryan is also a fellow TDS sufferer.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> That video was published Friday, Feb. 26th. The text I cited above from _The Blaze_ referenced CNN's "State of the Union" program on Sunday, February 28th.
> 
> Drumph has a terrible time keeping his message straight, doesn't he?


Not at all. He just doesn't see the left's fascination with inane repetition and public confession.


----------



## Macfury

It's not a relevant question. Nobody owes anyone a living.



fjnmusic said:


> Care to elaborate? How much would be enough? How much might, say, constitute a living wage for an American?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

It's no wonder she ran a server out of her house. She didn't know she wasn't s'pose to... 

EXCLUSIVE: Former RNC Chairman: Evidence Shows Hillary Clinton Never Qualified For Security Clearance



> Hillary Clinton never actually met the official requirements to obtain a security clearance to handle classified information, according to a growing body of evidence.
> 
> “That is exactly the conclusion here based on the evidence,” former Republican National Committee (RNC) chairman Michael Steele told Breitbart News.
> 
> “The process is the process. The protocols are the protocols,” Steele said, noting that when you look at internal State Department evidence “this [conclusion] is where you’ll end up.”


----------



## FeXL

The fallout from the Charlie Foxtrot continues.

Official: 8 of 11 Remaining Obamacare Co-Ops on the Brink



> An official with the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services told lawmakers last week that eight of the 11 remaining Obamacare co-ops have been selected for “corrective action plans” and “enhanced oversight.”
> 
> Twenty-three co-ops were created under the president’s health care overhaul, and so far more than half have collapsed and are no longer selling plans in the marketplace.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News calls Cape Breton 'Land of the flee' for Donald Trump haters - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Well, this is one way to help repopulate Nova Scotia.


----------



## CubaMark

*FeXL, did you miss this? I'm waiting....*



CubaMark said:


> Remind me of what I posted regarding Democrats and slavery? I don't recall....


----------



## FeXL

A thousand pardons, massah...

My OP, pertinent quote fourth in the post.

Your response, two posts later.

As far as your memory issues are concerned, I'd suggest more _frijoles_ & other anti-oxidants...



CubaMark said:


> *FeXL, did you miss this? I'm waiting....*


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> A thousand pardons, massah...
> 
> My OP, pertinent quote fourth in the post.
> 
> Your response, two posts later.
> 
> As far as your memory issues are concerned, I'd suggest more _frijoles_ & other anti-oxidants...


Sorry - I'm lost. Your links take me to the gun control thread with talk of a *50-foot Jesus* and *homosexual deer*. Could you either link directly to the posts or quote what I said about the Democrats and slavery? _Thanks_.


----------



## FeXL

The links do go directly to the pertinent posts.

Bad day to miss your meds...



CubaMark said:


> Could you either link directly to the posts or quote what I said about the Democrats and slavery? _Thanks_.


----------



## FeXL

So, if Bill's Wife had this particular email on her roll-your-own server, & the information was accessed by questionable parties, then distributed to other questionable parties...

Hillary Emails Betrayed Whereabouts of Murdered Ambassador Chris Stevens



> An email containing the whereabouts and plans of murdered U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens passed through Hillary Clinton’s private server, dispatches released Monday in the final group of messages from Clinton’s emails reveal.
> 
> The email was actually first released last May but was contained in Monday’s batch as well, *serving as a reminder that numerous emails sent to Clinton’s private address betrayed Stevens’ location* while he was stationed in arguably one of the most dangerous zones in the world for an American diplomat.


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> The links do go directly to the pertinent posts.
> 
> Bad day to miss your meds...


(a) Um, no. They don't. They don't at all. The take me to the top of Page 7 of the "It never f******ng stops!" thread. I've also done textual searches for "democ" and "slave" which returns no hits. Either ehMac is acting up, or your links are wrong. I'm geniuinely interested in determining what you're on about. As I said above, if the links are unreliable, please post the text of what I supposedly said about the Democrats and slavery. Otherwise, retract what you've said about my position in that regard.

Update: hovering over your links, they point to http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134825-never-f-ng-stops-gun-violence-usa-apologies-rgray-10.html#post1985370 - but for some reason, Safari is ignoring the #post1985370 sub-tag. Odd....

(b) Wasn't that long ago that a comment like that would have been denounced as an unwarranted and unjustified personal attack. Too bad ehMac standards have slipped....


----------



## CubaMark

Now that I've tracked down the correct post (top of Page 4, FYI to anyone bored enough to follow this ridiculous exchange).

*You posted:*



> Oh, & further on that "despicable" flag, CM:
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates were being made to answer for a Democrat battle flag, representing a Democrat war in a chapter of American history remembered as a Democrat revolt against the Republican proposition that human beings shouldn’t be held as chattel property.
Click to expand...

*To which I responded:*



> I find it more than amusing that you and others on the Right continue to equate the modern Democrat and Republican parties with their historical namesakes.
> 
> Is that really the best you can do?
> 
> You imply that I have sympathy for the Democratic Party - I do not. They are not progressive / liberal. They are nothing more than the flip side of the same 1% coin that runs the US bureaucracy, with slightly different policy aims. But whether its a Republican or Democrat in the White House, the US remains an aggressive, violent, global imperialist threat.
> 
> Domestically, each is as beholden to the wealthy and Wall Street as the other. Neither can be said to truly have the best interests of the average citizen in mind.


*Now tell me, how on earth that exchange leads you to this:*



> I find it interesting (and hypocritical, no surprise) that you get your nose out of joint when the Democrats part in slavery is brought up


----------



## FeXL

FFS...

You couldn't even find the damn posts after I provided the precise links.

Now, you expect me to explain the connection? Try harder, CM. Reach deep down inside & see if you can find any hypocrisy in your observations on age old Democrats and your observations on age old relatives of Trump's.

The first clue is the first sentence of your response to my post.

As far as your observation about personal attacks is concerned, coming from the avowed hypocrite of ehMac, I take that as a compliment...



CubaMark said:


> Now tell me, how on earth that exchange leads you to this


----------



## fjnmusic

I am confused. What does FFS stand for again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

"There's a big enough umbrella, but it's always me that ends up getting wet."














Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

No respect for him after sucking up to Obama.



fjnmusic said:


> "There's a big enough umbrella, but it's always me that ends up getting wet."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No respect for him after sucking up to Obama.


Yes, shame on him for thanking FEMA for sending in some help in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. And, to make matters worse, he showed Pres. Obama around some of the sites that were devastated and he put his arm around the president for a moment or two. Supporting Trump is the one way he can make amends with the Republican Party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Unstoppable Trump? Not when you look at the Republican race this way - The Globe and Mail

Interesting way of looking at the overall delegate count ............. as of today.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed, except for your final statement. He can never make amends for it. He appeared as Obama's foil for photo ops--his Greek column.




Dr.G. said:


> Yes, shame on him for thanking FEMA for sending in some help in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. And, to make matters worse, he showed Pres. Obama around some of the sites that were devastated and he put his arm around the president for a moment or two. Supporting Trump is the one way he can make amends with the Republican Party.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, shame on him for thanking FEMA for sending in some help in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. And, to make matters worse, he showed Pres. Obama around some of the sites that were devastated and he put his arm around the president for a moment or two. Supporting Trump is the one way he can make amends with the Republican Party.



"The nerve! The absolute nerve!" 
– Juror No.3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

macfury said:


> agreed, except for your final statement. He can never make amends for it. He appeared as obama's foil for photo ops--his greek column.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> "The nerve! The absolute nerve!"
> – Juror No.3
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, the Republican Party is the party under "the big tent" ............ now it is an umbrella.


----------



## FeXL

Firetruck For Sale...



fjnmusic said:


> I am confused. What does FFS stand for again?


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Fox News calls Cape Breton 'Land of the flee' for Donald Trump haters - Nova Scotia - CBC News
> *
> Well, this is one way to help repopulate Nova Scotia.*


Yes I heard this on CBC 1 a while ago... Not sure how they will like the Highlands, lots of coyotes.


----------



## screature

Thank god I don't live in the US and can just observe and take it in as theater... except for the fact that Trump is one scary dude and now that he has the GOP nomination one has to start taking him seriously, in an alternate universe kind of way, kind of like like living in Canada with Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister.

The world is all upside down now, without a lot of upside for quite a while I suspect.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Firetruck For Sale...



Oh for frack sakes, I thought it was something else. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

screature said:


> Thank god I don't live in the US and can just observe and take it in as theater... except for the fact that Trump is one scary dude and now that he has the GOP nomination one has to start taking him seriously, in an alternate universe kind of way, kind of like like living in Canada with Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister.
> 
> 
> 
> The world is all upside down now, without a lot of upside for quite a while I suspect.



Except that Trudeau and Trump are in exactly polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Apart from the first three letters of their last names, they really don't have much in common.


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----------



## Macfury

Absolutely--Trump has actual real world experience.



fjnmusic said:


> Except that Trudeau and Trump are in exactly polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Apart from the first three letters of their last names, they really don't have much in common.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Absolutely--Trump has actual real world experience.


Oh _Please!_

As what - Grade A #1 jerkwad?

Remember a few years ago, the Republicans complained daily to the point of tears that Obama wouldn't work with them, wasn't willing to compromise, reach across the aisle, yadda yadda yadda?

Do you really think Trump would be willing to compromise with _anyone_ on _anything_?

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Do you really think Trump would be willing to compromise with _anyone_ on _anything_?


Hopefully not. The Republicans have caved to almost anything that Obama wanted so far.


----------



## screature

fjnmusic said:


> Except that Trudeau and Trump are in exactly polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Apart from the first three letters of their last names, they really don't have much in common.


Not really. They both come from backgrounds born with silver spoons in their mouths and speak from a point of privilege. On that front they are the same. 

They both want their own way all the time. On that front they are the same. 

They are both megalomaniacs. On that front they are the same. 

Trudeau is in some ways more worrisome because he is less up front about his agenda, that may be becuase he really doesn't have one, at least with Trump you know what you are getting.

So yes they do have things in common, but that is really not what I was talking about. I was talking about the cult of public persona and and that is very much what they share and how the electorate in either county is gullible enough to vote for either one of them. 

Neither of them has any real substance when it comes to public policy to lead a nation, they are/were both relying on their public personas to get elected. Much like Ronald Regan.

They have very much in common when it comes to politics, when it comes to public policy, they do differ significantly, but both, like most political leaders are just pandering for votes.

I can hardly deal with watching JT making comments as the PM of Canada... If I have to watch the Donald making comments as the President of the US at the same time I think my head may explode.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Neither of them has any real substance when it comes to public policy to lead a nation, they are/were both relying on their public personas to get elected. Much like *Ronald Regan*.


Governor of California?


----------



## fjnmusic

screature said:


> Not really. They both come from backgrounds born with silver spoons in their mouths and speak from a point of privilege. On that front they are the same.
> 
> 
> 
> They both want their own way all the time. On that front they are the same.
> 
> 
> 
> They are both megalomaniacs. On that front they are the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Trudeau is in some ways more worrisome because he is less up front about his agenda, that may be becuase he really doesn't have one, at least with Trump you know what you are getting.
> 
> 
> 
> So yes they do have things in common, but that is really not what I was talking about. I was talking about the cult of public persona and and that is very much what they share and how the electorate in either county is gullible enough to vote for either one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of them has any real substance when it comes to public policy to lead a nation, they are/were both relying on their public personas to get elected. Much like Ronald Regan.
> 
> 
> 
> They have very much in common when it comes to politics, when it comes to public policy, they do differ significantly, but both, like most political leaders are just pandering for votes.
> 
> 
> 
> I can hardly deal with watching JT making comments as the PM of Canada... If I have to watch the Donald making comments as the President of the US at the same time I think my head may explode.



Good post, Screature. Even if I don't agree with you, you raise some good points here. 


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----------



## FeXL

Interesting. The guy pled the fifth. They gave him immunity. Now he has to cooperate...

Justice Dept. grants immunity to staffer who set up Clinton email server



> The Justice Department has granted immunity to the former State Department staffer who worked on Hillary Rodham Clinton’s private email server, a sign the FBI investigation into possible criminal wrongdoing is progressing.
> 
> A senior U.S. law enforcement official said the FBI had secured the cooperation of Bryan Pagliano who worked on Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign before setting up the server in her New York home in 2009.
> 
> As the FBI looks to wrap up its investigation in the coming months, agents will likely want to interview Clinton and her senior aides about the decision to use a private server, how it was set up, and whether any of the participants knew they were sending classified information in emails, current and former officials said.


Related:

Hillary for Prison 2016


----------



## Dr.G.

Canadian immigration lawyers getting calls from Americans after Trump's primary wins - The Globe and Mail

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free of The Donald.


----------



## fjnmusic

Anybody getting concerned yet?



> A professor who says his unique model for predicting U.S. election results has a 96 per cent success rate says Donald Trump will likely be the next president.
> 
> Helmut Norpoth, a political science professor at Stony Brook University in New York, uses data from primary races to predict who will win the final vote.
> 
> He's applied his predictions model to elections dating back to 1912, and so far, he's only been wrong once: in 1960, when Democrat John F. Kennedy defeated Republican Richard Nixon.


http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/trump-will-win-u-s-presidency-prof-predicts-1.2800414


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Anybody getting concerned yet?


Only a little concerned that Trump doesn't have half the delegates yet.

Romney's pathetic tirade today is backfiring on the Republican establishment big time. If Romney had shown even half that fire against Obama, he would be president today.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. Take Trump over Obama, Bill's Wife or the socialist any day of the week & twice on Sundays.



fjnmusic said:


> Anybody getting concerned yet?


----------



## FeXL

Even more on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Even NPR agrees that Obamacare has failed



> A thorough repudiation of the (un-)Affordable Care Act comes from, of all places, state-run National Public Radio. Timed to be buried by Super Tuesday coverage, *NPR this week released a new study that indicates that Obamacare has failed on almost all levels.*


M'bold.

Yep...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Even more on the Charlie Foxtrot.
> 
> Even NPR agrees that Obamacare has failed


Agreed. Scrap it and institute single-payer national health care. Eliminate the insurance company middlemen and health care bureaucracies.

The USA already has an efficient system to emulate - the VA medical care regime.


----------



## Macfury

The VA medical care regime has been an absolute disaster.

Repeal Obamacare and replace it with true market based healthcare solution--instead of single-payer, which bases its strategy on health care rationing.



CubaMark said:


> Agreed. Scrap it and institute single-payer national health care. Eliminate the insurance company middlemen and health care bureaucracies.
> 
> The USA already has an efficient system to emulate - the VA medical care regime.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Only a little concerned that Trump doesn't have half the delegates yet.
> 
> Romney's pathetic tirade today is backfiring on the Republican establishment big time. If Romney had shown even half that fire against Obama, he would be president today.


I partially agree here. The GOP has a threshold of 1235 delegates or so. Trump is far from that, and after the 15th they move to some winner take all states. Clinton is in a much better position I believe. Romney's speech did more to hurt the GOP's cause I think.

I am currently in Georgia and it did not seem to go over well here. This is ironic since the GOP actually changed many of their primary and caucus rules to prevent outsiders from disrupting their choice. Romney only splits the party more.

That being said, we are moving into more urban centred states, which I think plays well for Rubio. I was going over Cruz's numbers in Texas and although he won, he really didn't bury his opponents as Clinton did in Arkansas and Saunders in Vermont.

I think Cruz is in trouble. I also think Trump can be had in the up coming ballots.

Winning the U.S. Has always been a 3 legged stool...Florida, Texas, California. If Trump takes Florida and California I think it's over...and watch out for Michigan and the Penn. Oregon can also surprise.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> Agreed. Scrap it and institute single-payer national health care. Eliminate the insurance company middlemen and health care bureaucracies.
> 
> The USA already has an efficient system to emulate - the VA medical care regime.


You do realise the private sector has been in place since the days of Nixon. The loss of jobs by placing a single payer system would be huuuuuuuuge, ain't gonna happen in my life time, but a SPS is the way to go.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You do realise the private sector has been in place since the days of Nixon. The loss of jobs by placing a single payer system would be huuuuuuuuge, ain't gonna happen in my life time, but a SPS is the way to go.


That's not true. Nixon signed the HMO Act which created a sort of crony capitalistic system in which end users and services were disengaged from providers. There is no free market--insurance companies are even protected from competition across state lines.


----------



## Rps

McFury, the HMOs are private not government agencies, as I am sure you know.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Repeal Obamacare and replace it with true market based healthcare solution--


How would you describe the health care system in the USA prior to Obamacare? Was it not market based?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> McFury, the HMOs are private not government agencies, as I am sure you know.


It was a system designed by Nixon to enrich insurance company cronies. It protected them from competition.



CubaMark said:


> How would you describe the health care system in the USA prior to Obamacare? Was it not market based?


No. It was a rigged system in which there was no real market. No cross-border competition and no relationship between the end user and the provider. Example: a hospital prices setting a broken leg at $3,000 when the actual cost is $900. The insurance company offers $2,000 and the hospital declares a $1,000 loss. However, the insurance company still prices the insurance to cover the $2,000. It has no incentive to demand the actual cost of $900.


----------



## Dr.G.

The race to the convention for the Republican party is reminding me of 1912, when the Republican Party split over its rejection of a comeback attempt by former President Theodore Roosevelt, who decided to go it alone with his new progressive "Bull Moose Party." A Democrat, Woodrow Wilson, profited from the chaos to win the White House. Throw into this mix the socialist Eugene V. Debs and you have a path to victory for the Republican Taft, since both TR and Debs would be taking votes from Wilson ........ or so thought the leadership of the Republican party. Seems that TR took 6 states and 88 electoral votes, Taft 2 states and 8 electoral votes, and Wilson 40 states and 435 electoral votes. Debs got 6% of the popular vote, but no states/electoral votes.

So, if Trump goes into the convention with a "huge" minority of the delegates, but just short of a simple majority, and they broker the convention in such a way that he comes out the loser, I feel he would take his supporters to a third party. Hopefully, this would be enough to allow the Democratic nominee to be elected. Of course, if Sanders is the nominee, and Bloomberg enters the race as an independent, then all bets are off. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

So glad I no longer have a "vote" in this election. Without a "None of the Above" option, the only rational choice would be some obscure third party candidate.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> So glad I no longer have a "vote" in this election. Without a "None of the Above" option, the only rational choice would be some obscure third party candidate.


Feel the Bern, Bob.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Feel the Bern, Bob.



A YUUUGE Bern. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> A YUUUGE Bern.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

“The main pendulum in American politics is no longer swinging from left to right. It’s swinging between insiders and outsiders,” said Sen. David Perdue (R-Ga.). “It’s those in the political class against those who are not — that’s the divide in the country, in the party.”

This is certainly true this year, especially in the Republican party.

""I believe with all my heart and soul that we face another time for choosing, one that will have profound consequences for the Republican Party and more importantly, for the country." Mitt Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

On a lighter note ...............

Clinton's drawl, Trump's 'yuuge' N.Y. accent and campaign 'code-switching' - World - CBC News


----------



## fjnmusic

Here's a message via Leland Sklar.










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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Here's a message via Leland Sklar.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## screature

fjnmusic said:


> Here's a message via Leland Sklar.





CubaMark said:


> :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


His analysis is not completely correct. It is also very much about Trump. 

He is correct in saying that, millions of Americans listen to him. BUT, they were waiting for a leader and in Trump they have found one, a billionaire to boot. "Maybe *HE* can deliver us to the promised land."

BUT without a leader like Trump those on the right who believe they are disaffected, they and their beliefs would just be blowing in the wind.

I am going to indulge in the cardinal sin of the internet by citing the name Hitler. Hitler was also one man but without him the Nazi regime would have never existed, at least not when it did. Much like those in Germany believed they were disaffected and they needed a leader to "unify" them and become a powerful political force.

Trump is necessary to consolidate them and make them a real electoral/political force.

But I do agree that his defeat will not dissuade those who are of like mind.


----------



## Macfury

Who the hell is Leland Sklar? I had to look him up just to see who you were talking about.

And where was he when the vast ignorance that allowed Barack Obama to take office took hold?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Who the hell is Leland Sklar? I had to look him up just to see who you were talking about.
> 
> *And where was he when the vast ignorance that allowed Barack Obama to take office took hold?*


He is easy enough to find MF, just one Google search is all it takes.

Leland Sklar

Obama had his time twice. The American public duly elected him. You may not like him, the same as many Canadians didn't like or vote for Harper (but at least in the US they get to vote for a leader unlike here where we don't have that opportunity).

You say "vast ignorance" to those who voted for Obama and you may be correct. But I will say this, there is greater "vast ignorance" among those who would choose to vote for Trump.

Some who support him may be well educated or informed but I think they are in the minority.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, I mentioned that I looked him up in the post:



> I had to look him up just to see who you were talking about.





screature said:


> He is easy enough to find MF, just one Google search is all it takes.
> 
> Leland Sklar


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Yes, I mentioned that I looked him up in the post:


Sorry I posted too quickly I wasn't quite finished my post. Please see above.


----------



## Macfury

If Trump is elected he will be duly elected, just as Obama was.



screature said:


> Obama had his time twice. The American public duly elected him.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> If Trump is elected he will be duly elected, just as Obama was.


Yes he will. That is an obvious statement, but you suggested that those who voted Obama were ignorant. Are those those who would vote for Trump less ignorant in your opinion?



Macfury said:


> Who the hell is Leland Sklar? I had to look him up just to see who you were talking about.
> 
> And where was he when *the vast ignorance that allowed Barack Obama to take office* took hold?


If so why?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Yes, I mentioned that I looked him up in the post:


Are you telling me this was the first time that you had to look up anyone on the internet that you did not know their name and still was an important figure in some capacity or anoter?...

Just because you have not heard of someone MF does not mean that they or their opinions are insignificant. Sometimes MF you come across as being belligerent and arrogant, as if anything that you don't know is worthless and if you have to "look it up" it is beneath you.

I can't think of a kinder way to say it so I am just going ahead, it is not surprising to me that you support Donald Trump based on the way you conduct yourself here. It seems to me you are cut from similar cloth.


----------



## CubaMark

*So how does it feel, sharing a candidate who is lauded by racists?*

*White Supremacists Neglect Their Own Presidential Candidate To Back Donald Trump*

Robert Whitaker, a lifelong segregationist who says racial diversity will lead to “white genocide,” is frustrated. He's worked hard to promote his candidacy for president on the white nationalist American Freedom Party ticket. He wrote robocall scripts, sold bumper stickers, and vainly tried to get “White Self-Hatred Is SICK!!!” posted on a billboard in Nevada.

But the leaders of Whitaker's party have been neglecting his campaign so they can back a rival candidate: Republican front-runner Donald Trump.​
(HuffPo)


----------



## Macfury

Why would anyone care if a fringe group supports any candidate?



CubaMark said:


> *So how does it feel, sharing a candidate who is lauded by racists?*


----------



## fjnmusic

screature said:


> Are you telling me this was the first time that you had to look up anyone on the internet that you did not know their name and still was an important figure in some capacity or anoter?...
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you have not heard of someone MF does not mean that they or their opinions are insignificant. Sometimes MF you come across as being belligerent and arrogant, as if anything that you don't know is worthless and if you have to "look it up" it is beneath you.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't think of a kinder way to say it so I am just going ahead, it is not surprising to me that you support Donald Trump based on the way you conduct yourself here. It seems to me you are cut from similar cloth.



A fair assessment based on my observations.


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----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Why would anyone care if a fringe group supports any candidate?



Because it speaks to character, obviously. It's like Paul McCarney doing that thing with Kanye West—not the best decision Sir Paul has ever made. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why would anyone care if a fringe group supports any candidate?


I wonder who Rand Paul voted for in today's Kentucky caucus???


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Are you telling me this was the first time that you had to look up anyone on the internet that you did not know their name and still was an important figure in some capacity or anoter?...
> 
> Just because you have not heard of someone MF does not mean that they or their opinions are insignificant. Sometimes MF you come across as being belligerent and arrogant, as if anything that you don't know is worthless and if you have to "look it up" it is beneath you.


No it isn't the first time. But I will mention it if the message comes from a supposed celebrity who has no credentials in that arena. Regarding Mr. Sklar—why bother attaching his name to that mundane message? Will more people believe it has merit because he played bass for Neil Sedaka?



screature said:


> I can't think of a kinder way to say it so I am just going ahead, it is not surprising to me that you support Donald Trump...


I support another candidate in another party--but I am enjoying watching people's heads explode over Trump. 



screature said:


> ...based on the way you conduct yourself here. It seems to me you are cut from similar cloth.


Thanks for making it personal--you seem to have a knack for exempting yourself from the behaviour you expect from others.


----------



## Macfury

That was Sir Paul's decision. Receiving endorsements reflects on the endorser.

Obama received the endorsement of the Communist Party of the USA. That does not make him a communist.



fjnmusic said:


> Because it speaks to character, obviously. It's like Paul McCarney doing that thing with Kanye West—not the best decision Sir Paul has ever made.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://capebreton.lokol.me/21-cape-breton-tips-for-american-immigrants

Interesting and relevant news for possible American immigrants.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *No it isn't the first time. But I will mention it if the message comes from a supposed celebrity who has no credentials in that arena.* Regarding Mr. Sklar—*why bother attaching his name to that mundane message? Will more people believe it has merit because he played bass for Neil Sedaka?*
> 
> I support another candidate in another party--but I am enjoying watching people's heads explode over Trump.
> 
> 
> *Thanks for making it personal--you seem to have a knack for exempting yourself from the behaviour you expect from others.*


You are not a celebrity and have no credentials in the arena, but you continue to comment. It is your right as it his as it is the right of other people here to quote statements from others that they happen to agree with whether others here are aware of them or not. Nobody here knows my father but I have quoted him on several occasions because what he said to be true. 

Same as above.

You are right, that part of the post was out of line. I apologize and retract what I said.

Mea Culpa.


----------



## Macfury

Accepted. No problem with the rest of the post.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Accepted. No problem with the rest of the post.


Just as an aside or to add, as I was editing my post when you posted back.

You are not a celebrity and have no credentials in the arena either, but you continue to comment and expect respect. It is your right as it t is the right of other people here to quote statements from others that they happen to agree with whether others here are aware of them or not. Nobody here knows my father but I have quoted him on several occasions because I believe what he said to be true.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Just as an aside or to add, as I was editing my post when you posted back.
> 
> You are not a celebrity and have no credentials in the arena either, but you continue to comment and expect respect. It is your right as it t is the right of other people here to quote statements from others that they happen to agree with whether others here are aware of them or not. Nobody here knows my father but I have quoted him on several occasions because I believe what he said to be true.


Sure, but you weren't expecting those comments to carry any more weight because he was your father. 

And I don't expect respect!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And I don't expect respect!


But you get it whether you want it or not. Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Cruz seems to have won Kansas ....................... 336 delegates for Trump and now 274 for Cruz.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Cruz seems to have won Kansas ....................... 336 delegates for Trump and now 274 for Cruz.


Amazing to hear people telling Cruz to drop out to clear the way for Rubio. Let Rubio bow out!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Amazing to hear people telling Cruz to drop out to clear the way for Rubio. Let Rubio bow out!


If Rubio loses in Florida he will be looking for the exit. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Amazing to hear people telling Cruz to drop out to clear the way for Rubio. Let Rubio bow out!


If Cruz continues to lead in Maine he will add another 23 delegates. 

Who are you supporting in this remaining field?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> If Cruz continues to lead in Maine he will add another 23 delegates.
> 
> Who are you supporting in this remaining field?


Cruz would by my first choice, Trump second. I have no time for either Rubio or Kasich.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Cruz would by my first choice, Trump second. I have no time for either Rubio or Kasich.


If Rand Paul was still in the running, would he be your #1 selection?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Sure, *but you weren't expecting those comments to carry any more weight because he was your father*.
> 
> And I don't expect respect!


No they were anecdotal.

It is simply a matter of attributing the quote to the person who spoke or wrote the words. I think you are reading far too much into it.

I had to look up Leland Sklar as well, it really doesn't matter.

You *should* expect respect. It is just a basic human right. You do not to need to prove yourself worthy of it, it is innate to all living things. In your actions and/or your words you can prove yourself to be unworthy and then respect can be denied by an individual (I am going to f**cking kill you) or by a group [(politics) *we* are are going to f**cking kill you].

It really matters not.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Cruz would by my first choice, Trump second. I have no time for either Rubio or Kasich.



Be careful who you wish for. Them tonsil stones can be a deal breaker. 
http://youtu.be/SeoxtBH6ojI


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----------



## fjnmusic

Ever heard of James Taylor? Leland Sklar plays bass in his band and on most of his records. Definitely a lefty like myself (politically, not handedness). The quote was not something he wrote but something he posted on his FB page. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Ever heard of James Taylor? Leland Sklar plays bass in his band and on most of his records. Definitely a lefty like myself (politically, not handedness). The quote was not something he wrote but something he posted on his FB page.


Once I looked him up, I recognized a lot of the people he worked with and albums he had worked on.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> If Rand Paul was still in the running, would he be your #1 selection?


I was waiting for him to settle on his new persona. Ultimately, he seemed to have become a bit of a willow in the wind, adjusting his philosophy to suit the political winds. He was definitely my early choice.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I was waiting for him to settle on his new persona. Ultimately, he seemed to have become a bit of a willow in the wind, adjusting his philosophy to suit the political winds. He was definitely my early choice.


Would you choose him over Trump or Cruz if he were still in the race?


----------



## Rps

Hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump has not reached political mass yet, he is about 60 delegates away. We are now coming to the winner take all states such as Florida's 99. If he wins that, the he has two legs of the stool....lookout!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump has not reached political mass yet, he is about 60 delegates away. We are now coming to the winner take all states such as Florida's 99. If he wins that, the he has two legs of the stool....lookout!


Trump has 385 delegates out of a needed 1237, Cruz has 298 and Rubio has 126. If Rubio loses his home state of Florida it is just about over for him. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Trump has 385 delegates out of a needed 1237, Cruz has 298 and Rubio has 126. If Rubio loses his home state of Florida it is just about over for him. We shall see.


Dr. G, been looking at some polling here in Georgia and the numbers I have seen may put Rubio in trouble, which I am wondering about.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, been looking at some polling here in Georgia and the numbers I have seen may put Rubio in trouble, which I am wondering about.


Interesting. Remember, there is a divide in GA between urban and rural regions, and between north and south Georgia.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Would you choose him over Trump or Cruz if he were still in the race?


Looking at the possibility of a candidate winning the presidency, no. It's one thing to support people purely on philosophy, and another to have them win.


----------



## SINC

Donald Trump A 'Threat To Peace And Prosperity,' German Vice Chancellor Says


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Donald Trump A 'Threat To Peace And Prosperity,' German Vice Chancellor Says


If these dictatorial technocrats were not driving the EU to ruin, I might have some regard for their opinions.


----------



## FeXL

If he's offending all these main stream politicians, he must be doing something right...


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. Remember, there is a divide in GA between urban and rural regions, and between north and south Georgia.


Sorry Dr. G, I got distracted when I was posting, I meant to say Florida polling here from my Georgia sources.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Sorry Dr. G, I got distracted when I was posting, I meant to say Florida polling here from my Georgia sources.


OK. No problem. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Trump says no wall on Canadian border, except for New Brunswick


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Trump says no wall on Canadian border, except for New Brunswick


----------



## Dr.G.

Luckily, we have our own Statue of Liberty, called Mother Canada, here in Nova Scotia. Her inscription reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free of The Donald."


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> Donald Trump A 'Threat To Peace And Prosperity,' German Vice Chancellor Says


Not talking to the print but the video... madness like I said in a prevous post:



screature said:


> His analysis is not completely correct. It is also very much about Trump.
> 
> He is correct in saying that, millions of Americans listen to him. BUT, they were waiting for a leader and in Trump they have found one, a billionaire to boot. "Maybe *HE* can deliver us to the promised land."
> 
> BUT without a leader like Trump those on the right who believe they are disaffected, they and their beliefs would just be blowing in the wind.
> 
> I am going to indulge in the cardinal sin of the internet by citing the name Hitler. Hitler was also one man but without him the Nazi regime would have never existed, at least not when it did. Much like those in Germany believed they were disaffected and they needed a leader to "unify" them and become a powerful political force.
> 
> Trump is necessary to consolidate them and make them a real electoral/political force.
> 
> But I do agree that his defeat will not dissuade those who are of like mind.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, do you think the time is right for a formal 3rd party in the U.S.? Since you roll over the House and Senate, and vote for the President, it might not cause the proportional issues we have in Canada. Thought?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, do you think the time is right for a formal 3rd party in the U.S.? Since you roll over the House and Senate, and vote for the President, it might not cause the proportional issues we have in Canada. Thought?


If it came to pass that a third party could come to gain support for a president, or even elect those in Congress, it would need to bring about coalitions to pass legislation, over ride vetoes, break up a filibuster, etc. 

There is a distinction between someone in the House of Representatives and Senate, re terms in office (two years vs six years with no limits), representation based on population and two senators for each state, etc, all of which would make proportional representation difficult.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/BuzzFeedCanada/videos/1679603518981274/


----------



## Rps

Hi, Dr. G. I have a bit of a disconnect here. Wouldn't the oll over and direct vote for President mitigate proportional issues? Here you can win with 34%, which means 66% are against you. Would this happen in the U.S. as you can vote for the local and the leader in different parties.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hi, Dr. G. I have a bit of a disconnect here. Wouldn't the oll over and direct vote for President mitigate proportional issues? Here you can win with 34%, which means 66% are against you. Would this happen in the U.S. as you can vote for the local and the leader in different parties.


Anyone is free to split their vote all down the ballot. I have voted for a Democratic president, a Republican Congressman, an Independent Senator, all in the same election. For president, a simple majority of votes will get you all of the electoral votes for that state, and a few times the winner has gotten enough electoral votes but received less popular votes nationwide (e.g., 2000). 

Personally, I vote for the man or woman who best represents my views and not focus upon his or her party.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Hi, Dr. G. I have a bit of a disconnect here. Wouldn't the oll over and direct vote for President mitigate proportional issues? Here you can win with 34%, which means 66% are against you. Would this happen in the U.S. as you can vote for the local and the leader in different parties.


Since the US vote is delivered by the Electoral College, you can win the presidency with a hair under 50% of the popular vote, but you generally need a majority.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Since the US vote is delivered by the Electoral College, you can win the presidency with a hair under 50% of the popular vote, but you generally need a majority.


Tell that to Al Gore.


----------



## FeXL

*Hillary for Prison, 2016!*

Former AG Mukasey Outlines Laws Clinton Potentially Broke With Private Server Conduct



> Co-host Mika Brzezinski asked [former Attorney General Michael] Mukasey, who served under President George W. Bush, the implications of what granting immunity to Clinton aide Bryan Pagliano, who set up the server, meant and whether this was really “much ado about nothing.”
> 
> “Given what else there is, not likely,” he said. “Understand there are 16, 17, 1,800 classified emails on a nonclassified server. Somebody put them on there, and they didn’t all start off that way. The notion that somehow they weren’t marked when they were put on the server is a half-truth, and it’s one that is peculiarly designed to irritate anybody who knows the other half.”


Related:

FBI investigating if Clinton aides shared passwords to access classified info



> The FBI is investigating whether computer passwords were shared among Hillary Clinton's close aides to determine how sensitive intelligence "jumped the gap" between the classified systems and Clinton's unsecured personal server, according to an intelligence source familiar with the probe.
> 
> *The source emphasized to Fox News that “if [Clinton] was allowing other people to use her passwords, that is a big problem.”* The Foreign Service Officers Manual prohibits the sharing of passwords.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Beholden to your donors?

Marco Rubio’s New Billionaire Backer Top Funder for Open Borders



> Hedge-fund billionaire Paul Singer’s decision to throw his financial weight behind the donor-class 2016 favorite, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), has sparked fresh questions about Rubio’s coziness with the financial interests funding his career.
> 
> Singer was a major financial force behind the Rubio-Obama amnesty and immigration expansion push in 2013.
> 
> As Politico reported at the time, Singer “quietly go[t] involved in the fight for immigration reform, making a six-figure donation… to the National Immigration Forum”— a George Soros-backed organization that lobbied for Rubio’s legislation to issue 33 million green cards to foreign nationals in the span of a single decade. The announcement of Singer’s endorsement highlights an intra-party tension that has emerged with new strength since Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)’s inauguration as Speaker of the House.


Soros? Ya don't say...

Related:

Rubio Crawling Into Bed With Soros Funding Hedge-Fund Billionaire – GOP Establishment Does Not Represent The People



> The façade of a representative of the American people that Rubio seems to be so intent on crafting is now exposed completely, as is he, as being fraudulent. This isn’t about Republican or Democrat, it’s about representative government by the people or purchased dictatorship by the rich and corrupt, and Rubio is for sale. He’s standing in the storefront window like a mannequin, or an Amsterdam working girl, waiting for Mr. Right to happen by.
> 
> When one aligns themselves with and represents the interests of the anti-American front, the crossing of paths, intersections with the money trail and intermingling of like-minded cash cannot be avoided. George Soros is the epitome of leftist money tainting the political arena, the definition of Marxist, anti-constitutional influence buying towards our national destruction.


----------



## FeXL

Riiiiight... They've dropped trou & grabbed their ankles for everything else he's wanted. 'Sides, even if they did oppose him, he'd just write up another Executive Order.

Congress Committed to Stopping Obama From Handing Gitmo U.S. Naval Station to Cuba



> President Obama is not only expected to close Guantanamo Bay, but rumor has it he is prepared to give our U.S. Naval Station in the region to Cuba.
> 
> House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce has prepared legislation to halt this potential dangerous transition. The United States Naval Station Guantanamo Bay Preservation Act would require the president to seek approval from Congress before making anymore dangerous decisions.


Bye-bye Gitmo, hello Vladimir..


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Riiiiight... They've dropped trou & grabbed their ankles for everything else he's wanted. 'Sides, even if they did oppose him, he'd just write up another Executive Order.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And?



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yeah. And?


Exactly. Obama's executive orders are fewer but represent a greater abuse of power.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Congress Committed to Stopping Obama From Handing Gitmo U.S. Naval Station to Cuba


_While giving the base to the Castro regime may not be a part of ‘this trip,’ as the White House insists, its long record of one-sided concessions_​
Only from that deranged perspective that the U.S. is the rightful master of the hemisphere can one view the return of the Guantanamo Bay territory back to its rightful owner as a "concession".

The USA drafted the agreement, foisted it upon its puppet regime that 'governed' Cuba and implemented onerous requirements to ensure it would never have to return this stolen land to any future Cuban government.

The 1903 agreements (there were 2 leases, the 2nd a modification signed in July) which outlined, among other things, the permitted use of the occupied land:

_The grant of the foregoing Article shall include the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to said areas of land and water, and to improve and deepen the entrances thereto and the anchorages therein, and generally to do any and all things necessary to fit the premises* for use as coaling or naval stations only, and for no other purpose*._​
The Guantanamo Bay detention camp for supposed terrorists held extra-judiciously by the US military does not comply with this condition.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Exactly. Obama's executive orders are fewer but represent a greater abuse of power.


Can't have the President being uppity, now can they?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Can't have the President being uppity, now can they?


We can't have the president abuse his power.


----------



## Macfury

The US need only permanently appropriate the land and then ensure that its constitution enshrines it. Worked for Fidel.




CubaMark said:


> _While giving the base to the Castro regime may not be a part of ‘this trip,’ as the White House insists, its long record of one-sided concessions_​
> Only from that deranged perspective that the U.S. is the rightful master of the hemisphere can one view the return of the Guantanamo Bay territory back to its rightful owner as a "concession".
> 
> The USA drafted the agreement, foisted it upon its puppet regime that 'governed' Cuba and implemented onerous requirements to ensure it would never have to return this stolen land to any future Cuban government.
> 
> The 1903 agreements (there were 2 leases, the 2nd a modification signed in July) which outlined, among other things, the permitted use of the occupied land:
> 
> _The grant of the foregoing Article shall include the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to said areas of land and water, and to improve and deepen the entrances thereto and the anchorages therein, and generally to do any and all things necessary to fit the premises* for use as coaling or naval stations only, and for no other purpose*._​
> The Guantanamo Bay detention camp for supposed terrorists held extra-judiciously by the US military does not comply with this condition.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Tell that to Al Gore.


Absolutely! Another case of fact vs fiction. If my understanding of the EC is correct, each state can choose how those EC votes are cast.....close Dr. G, or am I wrong in this?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> We can't have the president abuse his power.


We can have the President do what he or she wants as he or she is not our President.

By the way, all leaders "abuse" their power to get stuff done. Some activity is just more subtle than others.....ask a party whip sometime.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The US need only permanently appropriate the land and then ensure that its constitution enshrines it. Worked for Fidel.


Ah, the arrogance of the USA's _Manifest Destiny_. Why am I not surprised that you're a fan....? XX)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Ah, the arrogance of the USA's _Manifest Destiny_. Why am I not surprised that you're a fan....? XX)



I was neither a fan of Cuba's expropriation of property nor that of Manifest Destiny. At least I am consistent.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Absolutely! Another case of fact vs fiction. If my understanding of the EC is correct, each state can choose how those EC votes are cast.....close Dr. G, or am I wrong in this?


The process for selecting Electors varies throughout the United States. Generally, the political parties nominate Electors at their State party conventions or by a vote of the party’s central committee in each State. Each candidate will have their own unique slate of potential Electors as a result of this part of the selection process.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> We can't have the president abuse his power.



Boy that's a mouthful considering the ten year plus "pre-emptive strike" in Iraq because of "weapons of mass destruction" that were built using "enriched plutonium" from "Northern Africa" according to their "best intelligence" (I'd hate to see what their worst intelligence was saying) that could be launched against the US with only "forty-five minutes warning." They didn't want the first evidence of WMD's to be a "mushroom cloud", and so they began with that "shock and awe campaign" in March, 2003.

Yes, I can see how important it is for the president not to abuse his power. Going to war on a false pretext, without UN sanction, is sort of akin to committing grievous war crimes, both against your own troops and against the enemy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Boy that's a mouthful considering the ten year plus "pre-emptive strike" in Iraq because of "weapons of mass destruction" that were built using "enriched plutonium" from "Northern Africa" according to their "best intelligence" (I'd hate to see what their worst intelligence was saying) that could be launched against the US with only "forty-five minutes warning." They didn't want the first evidence of WMD's to be a "mushroom cloud", and so they began with that "shock and awe campaign" in March, 2003.
> 
> Yes, I can see how important it is for the president not to abuse his power. Going to war on a false pretext, without UN sanction, is sort of akin to committing grievous war crimes, both against your own troops and against the enemy.


I have no doubt that both the Democrats and Republicans who supported the war resolution in Congress believed the intelligence reports. While the war effort was misguided IMO, it does not represent an abuse of presidential power.

(I have little regard for the UN. It is not an authority on anything.)


----------



## Dr.G.

France came to the aid of America near the end of the Revolutionary War ............ the US came to the aid of Britain in WWI and WWII ......... and now it is time for Britain to come to the aid of Canada.

Brickstarter


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160308&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

An interesting read, especially if you are interested in education.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160308&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y
> 
> An interesting read, especially if you are interested in education.


Thanks for that, Dr. G. Finally something I can use with the folks who contaminate my FB feed with all that nonsense about Common Core. (1)(2)


----------



## Macfury

The problem is not Common Core but tying federal grants to Common Core or its equivalent.



CubaMark said:


> Thanks for that, Dr. G. Finally something I can use with the folks who contaminate my FB feed with all that nonsense about Common Core. (1)(2)


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160308&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting read, especially if you are interested in education.



It's funny, but if common sense were really common, everyone would have it. 

Trump, Republican candidate, and education do not really belong in the same sentence together. These guys would ban two or more syllable words if given the chance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Thanks for that, Dr. G. Finally something I can use with the folks who contaminate my FB feed with all that nonsense about Common Core. (1)(2)


Can't say that I am a fan of Common Core math, but some states are moving away from the complexities of the new math curriculum and back to the basics.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> It's funny, but if common sense were really common, everyone would have it.
> 
> Trump, Republican candidate, and education do not really belong in the same sentence together. These guys would ban two or more syllable words if given the chance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But if you listen to Trump, he tells us all how smart he is ................... he can't lie about that fact ............ could he?????????


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> But if you listen to Trump, he tells us all how smart he is ................... he can't lie about that fact ............ could he?????????



Funny! All one really has to do is listen to him speak for, oh, about fifteen seconds or so too realize how opposite of smart he is. Bill Clinton is smart. Bernie Sanders is art. Donald Trump is the neighbourhood thug by comparison. He bullies people into getting his way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Republican voter thought he hated 'Obamacare,' until he got sick | MSNBC

Many rethink their previous views until it directly affects them. My friend's grandfather, a true Tea Party member from their onset, wants to see the Post Office stopped, as well as other service agencies. When my friend asked how he got his social security check, he was told "in the mail at the beginning of each month". He also did not trust banks, so he cashed his SS check at a local store. With no direct deposit option, and no postal delivery, I wonder how he will get his SS check should the Tea Party ever gain control of the US government????


----------



## FeXL

Pony Express, just like the good ol' days...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Pony Express, just like the good ol' days...


Yep. The "Good ol' Days"©, which is where these right-wingnuts want to take us. Back to a woman in the kitchen, barefoot and preferably pregnant with no right to control her own body (and just enough learnin' to know how to measure out a cup of flour for that dingleberry pie); with a bunch of black folk in the field, maybe not slaves, but sure as hell know their place; Church on Sunday and a gun tucked into every belt... yessiree, it'll be heaven on earth...


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Funny! All one really has to do is listen to him speak for, oh, about fifteen seconds or so too realize how opposite of smart he is. Bill Clinton is smart. Bernie Sanders is art. Donald Trump is the neighbourhood thug by comparison. He bullies people into getting his way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


As TR once said, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."


----------



## Macfury

Also many people being forced to face the financial hardships of buying insurance they do not need.



Dr.G. said:


> Republican voter thought he hated 'Obamacare,' until he got sick | MSNBC
> 
> Many rethink their previous views until it directly affects them. My friend's grandfather, a true Tea Party member from their onset, wants to see the Post Office stopped, as well as other service agencies. When my friend asked how he got his social security check, he was told "in the mail at the beginning of each month". He also did not trust banks, so he cashed his SS check at a local store. With no direct deposit option, and no postal delivery, I wonder how he will get his SS check should the Tea Party ever gain control of the US government????


----------



## FeXL

It's the Progs who want to get rid of dependable electricity in the first world, not the right. It's the Progs who are also limiting third world countries to inconsistent, expensive renewable energy instead of allowing economic development with the same fossil fuels that brought the first world out of the dark ages.



CubaMark said:


> Yep. The "Good ol' Days"©, which is where these right-wingnuts want to take us.


As opposed to advanced contemporary cultures, where female genital mutilation, rape, & female beatings run rampant? Forcibly attired in a potato sack? 



CubaMark said:


> Back to a woman in the kitchen, barefoot and preferably pregnant with no right to control her own body (and just enough learnin' to know how to measure out a cup of flour for that dingleberry pie);


You mean the slaves that Progs fought for & conservatives fought against?



CubaMark said:


> ...with a bunch of black folk in the field, maybe not slaves, but sure as hell know their place;


Yeah, unlike those advanced contemporary cultures where prayer rugs are packed around all over the place, where they need time off from whatever it is they are doing so they can get down on their knees & face east five times daily.



CubaMark said:


> Church on Sunday...


The only sane thing in your list...



CubaMark said:


> and a gun tucked into every belt...


Yeah, contemporary society has improved things so much... XX)



CubaMark said:


> yessiree, it'll be heaven on earth...


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Also many people being forced to face the financial hardships of buying insurance they do not need.


You mean like buying fire insurance on your home? Not many will let you buy it on a home after it burns down....so how does one know when they will need it?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You mean like buying fire insurance on your home? Not many will let you buy it on a home after it burns down....so how does one know when they will need it?


One decides like an adult whether they will accept the risk or take the insurance.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> One decides like an adult whether they will accept the risk or take the insurance.


So we should make seatbelts in cars optional; remove all safety standards for products because "the market will sort it out"; etc.? 

Glad I don't live in a world where you're the King....


----------



## Macfury

Don't be grandiose. But, yes, seatbelt use should be optional for adults.

And no, I don't believe you would survive long in a world where personal responsibility and free choice were elevated. 



CubaMark said:


> So we should make seatbelts in cars optional; remove all safety standards for products because "the market will sort it out"; etc.?
> 
> Glad I don't live in a world where you're the King....


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> You mean like buying fire insurance on your home? Not many will let you buy it on a home after it burns down....so how does one know when they will need it?



Good point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Fire insurance is not mandatory and some people are willing to accept greater risk and keep the money they spend on premiums.



fjnmusic said:


> Good point.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Don't be grandiose. But, yes, seatbelt use should be optional for adults.
> 
> And no, I don't believe you would survive long in a world where personal responsibility and free choice were elevated.





Macfury said:


> Fire insurance is not mandatory and some people are willing to accept greater risk and keep the money they spend on premiums.


So if you choose not to wear a seatbelt would you forego any insurance that might come your way if someone hits you from behind while you are legally stopped at a red light and you are thrown through the windshield rather than be protected by the seatbelt?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Fire insurance is not mandatory and some people are willing to accept greater risk and keep the money they spend on premiums.



That's not much comfort for the people next door whose house also burns down due to your negligence. You may not like insurance, but it's one of the prices we pay for living in a society.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> So we should make seatbelts in cars optional; remove all safety standards for products because "the market will sort it out"; etc.?
> 
> Glad I don't live in a world where you're the King....


King Macfury I .................... has a nice ring to it. Move over Charles for someone else is ready, willing and able to lead us back to Camelot. If anyone can do it, Macfury can. God save the king.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i2AJ4NB7aI[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZj1bQtRNdk

An evening chuckle.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ZwtSwSX3Q

We stand on guard for thee .............


----------



## FeXL

Dingdingdingdingding! We have a winnah!!!



Macfury said:


> But, yes, seatbelt use should be optional for adults.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dingdingdingdingding! We have a winnah!!!


All hail King Macfury ................. and pray that he does not get into a car accident. Long live the King.


----------



## Macfury

Fire insurance is not mandatory, fjn.



fjnmusic said:


> That's not much comfort for the people next door whose house also burns down due to your negligence. You may not like insurance, but it's one of the prices we pay for living in a society.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So if you choose not to wear a seatbelt would you forego any insurance that might come your way if someone hits you from behind while you are legally stopped at a red light and you are thrown through the windshield rather than be protected by the seatbelt?


Would you forego insurance settlements if the seatbelt itself caused the injury?


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> All hail King Macfury ................. and pray that he does not get into a car accident. Long live the King.


Let's look at cause & effect, see if we can determine how many accidents the wearing of that seatbelt prevented...


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Fire insurance is not mandatory, fjn.



It is if you want a mortgage. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> It is if you want a mortgage.


Mm-hm. But when your house is paid off, it's up to you.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Mm-hm. But when your house is paid off, it's up to you.



Maybe so, But I certainly wouldn't someone without insurance as a next door neighbor. The right of your fist ends where the right of my nose begins, and in this case, that would be the property line.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

They would ceratinly have to pay for the damage themselves--since they now own the house.



fjnmusic said:


> Maybe so, But I certainly wouldn't someone without insurance as a next door neighbor. The right of your fist ends where the right of my nose begins, and in this case, that would be the property line.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*I trust this will result in all of you Trump fans tossing your Apple products into the bin, and initiating a boycott? (We already know you're not likely to buy a Tesla)*

*Tim Cook, Elon Musk, other execs attend secret meeting aimed at stopping Donald Trump*

"...a number of tech luminaries over the weekend, a group which included Tim Cook, Elon Musk and even Napster co-founder Sean Parker, all congregated on a private island resort off the coast of Georgia where the topic of discussion centered on how to stop the growing momentum of Donald Trump."

* * *​
"In addition to the aforementioned group of tech bigwigs, a group which also included former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, there were also a number of political figures in attendance, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Karl Rove.

Though Trump’s Presidential run may have initially been viewed as something of an entertaining joke, many Republicans are none too thrilled that the controversial Trump remains a frontrunner this far into election season."

* * *​
"Just about three weeks ago, Trump said that Americans should boycott Apple products unless the company agrees to help the FBI.

“To think that Apple won’t allow us to get into her cellphone? Who do they think they are?"​
(BGR)


----------



## FeXL

Swingin' back & forth like a saloon door.

Hillary Wants To Basically Ban Fracking After Promoting It In Other Countries For Years



> Democratic presidential candidate former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gave a long answer for all the situations she’s against hydraulic fracturing, eventually admitting there would be very few places where fracking is legally allowed to take place — a near reverse of her past stance while heading the Department of State.
> 
> “By the time we get through all of my conditions, I do not think there will be many places in America where fracking will continue to take place,” Clinton said during the Democratic presidential debate in Flint, Mich. Sunday night.


----------



## Macfury

What a bunch of impotent slobs!



CubaMark said:


> *I trust this will result in all of you Trump fans tossing your Apple products into the bin, and initiating a boycott? (We already know you're not likely to buy a Tesla)*
> 
> *Tim Cook, Elon Musk, other execs attend secret meeting aimed at stopping Donald Trump*
> 
> "...a number of tech luminaries over the weekend, a group which included Tim Cook, Elon Musk and even Napster co-founder Sean Parker, all congregated on a private island resort off the coast of Georgia where the topic of discussion centered on how to stop the growing momentum of Donald Trump."
> 
> * * *​
> "In addition to the aforementioned group of tech bigwigs, a group which also included former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, there were also a number of political figures in attendance, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Karl Rove.
> 
> Though Trump’s Presidential run may have initially been viewed as something of an entertaining joke, many Republicans are none too thrilled that the controversial Trump remains a frontrunner this far into election season."
> 
> * * *​
> "Just about three weeks ago, Trump said that Americans should boycott Apple products unless the company agrees to help the FBI.
> 
> “To think that Apple won’t allow us to get into her cellphone? Who do they think they are?"​
> (BGR)


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> They would ceratinly have to pay for the damage themselves--since they now own the house.



It's not the damage to their house I'm worried about; it's the damage to MINE. This is why by law automobile owners must have PLPD coverage, even if they don't have collision coverage. It's about liability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

That's what I said. They would have to pay for damage to your house.



fjnmusic said:


> It's not the damage to their house I'm worried about; it's the damage to MINE. This is why by law automobile owners must have PLPD coverage, even if they don't have collision coverage. It's about liability.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's what I said. They would have to pay for damage to your house.



Good luck enforcing that if they don't have insurance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It is settled among adults.



fjnmusic said:


> Good luck enforcing that if they don't have insurance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is settled among adults.


A fine idea. Pistols at dawn at 20 paces. XX)


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It is settled among adults.


Zzzzziiiiing!!!


----------



## FeXL

Loving the optics of this...

‘Surprised’ White House bristles after Netanyahu abruptly cancels trip to Washington



> A “surprised” White House bristled Monday after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu abruptly cancelled a trip to Washington.
> 
> The U.S. insisted that President Barack Obama had offered a meeting but was turned down.
> 
> Israel on Tuesday disputed the White House claim that Netanyahu “surprised” the Obama administration by cancelling the visit, saying that the White House knew Netanyahu was considering not coming.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Zzzzziiiiing!!!


Slingshots at 50 paces???


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Slingshots at 50 paces???


50 paces...150 yards. Nope, not going to happen. 

I once broke a second storey window out of a hayshed back on the farm from about 20 yards away with a slingshot dad made me out of a caragana crotch, inner tube strips and the palm from an old leather glove, tho.

I was feeling pretty proud until he found out...


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

These poor, fragile, progressives...

Therapy sessions on the rise in liberal cities thanks to Donald Trump



> It appears that Donald Trump is already creating new jobs in the field of psychology. He is at least improving the economy in the D.C., area with patients visiting their therapists more often due to experiencing a new source of stress because of the political rise of Donald Trump. According to an article in the Washington Post, psychologists in the D.C. area catalogue the anxieties felt by their patients and describe how they whine at length about being disturbed by the things that Trump says


Good...


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> *I trust this will result in all of you Trump fans tossing your Apple products into the bin, and initiating a boycott? (We already know you're not likely to buy a Tesla)*
> 
> *Tim Cook, Elon Musk, other execs attend secret meeting aimed at stopping Donald Trump*



Meh. I like Cook. I like Musk. I like Trump. It don't befront me if they don't get along. The only reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is because they aren't practical at this time. Some day they may be.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Meh. I like Cook. I like Musk. I like Trump. It don't befront me if they don't get along. The only reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is because they aren't practical at this time. Some day they may be.


Exactly. What's the problem? It's just politics.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> Meh. I like Cook. I like Musk. I like Trump. It don't befront me if they don't get along. The only reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is because they aren't practical at this time. Some day they may be.



That's what the damn word is!!

"George Thorogood's "House Rent Blues": His landlady has seen him leaning against a post, not looking for work to get money to pay the rent. He says "but I'm tired!" She replies "That don't befront me, as long as I get my money next Friday."
(Urban dictionary)

Thanks, Heavyall! That's only been buying me for, oh, thirty years or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's a good word!



fjnmusic said:


> That's what the damn word is!!
> 
> "George Thorogood's "House Rent Blues": His landlady has seen him leaning against a post, not looking for work to get money to pay the rent. He says "but I'm tired!" She replies "That don't befront me, as long as I get my money next Friday."
> (Urban dictionary)
> 
> Thanks, Heavyall! That's only been buying me for, oh, thirty years or so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bse5150

fjnmusic said:


> That's what the damn word is!!
> 
> "George Thorogood's "House Rent Blues": His landlady has seen him leaning against a post, not looking for work to get money to pay the rent. He says "but I'm tired!" She replies "That don't befront me, as long as I get my money next Friday."
> (Urban dictionary)


The song's called _One Bourbon, One Scotch, One beer_. Great tune.


----------



## Macfury

One Bourbon, One Scotch, One beer





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## heavyall

bse5150 said:


> The song's called _One Bourbon, One Scotch, One beer_. Great tune.


Thorogood's popular rendition is a medley of One Bourbon and House Rent Blues -- they were originally two different songs.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> Thorogood's popular rendition is a medley of One Bourbon and House Rent Blues -- they were originally two different songs.



True dat. And both by John Lee Hooker too, recorded at two different tempos. Gots to love the blues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

How lovely to live in a country where law enforcement witnesses an assault, and hauls the victim away, leaving the criminal alone.

Ah, Amerika.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

*And what are the fruits of neo-conservative slashing-taxes-will-bring-unprecedented-growth ideology? Look no further than Louisiana. O.M.G.*

*Bobby Jindal's Disaster in Louisiana Shows Why You Shouldn't Bet on Fossil Fuels*








The state of Louisiana has fallen on hard times, and its situation offers some hard lessons. First, don't let a right-wing ideologue cut your budget to the bone. Second, don't hang your whole economy on fossil fuel extraction.

The Washington Post reports on the state's budget crisis:



> Already, the state of Louisiana had gutted university spending and depleted its rainy-day funds. It had cut 30,000 employees and furloughed others. It had slashed the number of child services staffers…
> 
> And then, the state's new governor, John Bel Edwards (D), came on TV and said the worst was yet to come…
> 
> Despite all the cuts of the previous years, the nation's second-poorest state still needed nearly $3 billion—almost $650 per person—just to maintain its regular services over the next 16 months…
> 
> A few universities will shut down and declare bankruptcy. Graduations will be canceled. Students will lose scholarships. Select hospitals will close. Patients will lose funding for treatment of disabilities. Some reports of child abuse will go uninvestigated.


For eight years, under former Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-La.), Louisiana slashed taxes and played tricks to fill budget holes. Jindal claimed that the tax cuts he pushed through would promote miraculous economic growth and make up for the lost revenue. That didn't work, of course, just as it didn't work on a national level under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.​(MotherJones)​


----------



## Macfury

Why are they complaining? Just let the new governor double taxes and bring in a new age of prosperity!



CubaMark said:


> *And what are the fruits of neo-conservative slashing-taxes-will-bring-unprecedented-growth ideology? Look no further than Louisiana. O.M.G.*
> 
> *Bobby Jindal's Disaster in Louisiana Shows Why You Shouldn't Bet on Fossil Fuels*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The state of Louisiana has fallen on hard times, and its situation offers some hard lessons. First, don't let a right-wing ideologue cut your budget to the bone. Second, don't hang your whole economy on fossil fuel extraction.
> 
> The Washington Post reports on the state's budget crisis:
> 
> 
> 
> For eight years, under former Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-La.), Louisiana slashed taxes and played tricks to fill budget holes. Jindal claimed that the tax cuts he pushed through would promote miraculous economic growth and make up for the lost revenue. That didn't work, of course, just as it didn't work on a national level under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.​(MotherJones)​


----------



## bse5150

Macfury said:


> Just let the new governor double taxes and bring in a new age of prosperity!


"Like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up by the handle." That's what Winston Churchill said about taxing your way to prosperity. It's true, he really did say that. Look it up. Go ahead, look it up. j/k


----------



## Aurora

Did he really say that? He did. I looked it up. I did.


----------



## bse5150

lol


----------



## Macfury

Carson endorsing Trump--excellent!

Carson to endorse Trump for president | TheHill


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Carson endorsing Trump--excellent!
> 
> Carson to endorse Trump for president | TheHill


Amazing. After the insults that The Donald threw his way ........... politics truly does make strange bed fellows.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Amazing. After the insults that The Donald threw his way ........... politics truly does make strange bed fellows.



Apparently the Republicans have a sado-masochistic relationship with Mr Trump. The more abusive he is, the more they like him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Apparently the Republicans have a sado-masochistic relationship with Mr Trump. The more abusive he is, the more they like him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True.


----------



## Macfury

So Mexico will pay for the wall! Great!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So Mexico will pay for the wall! Great!


Si, mi amigo.


----------



## Dr.G.

Good debate last night on CNN. Rubio came out a winner, at least in my opinion. We shall see how/if this helps him in the Florida primary.


----------



## Dr.G.

We are not for sale ............

Editorial Cartoon | The Chronicle Herald


----------



## fjnmusic

One thing about Trump; he certainly doesn't SEEM to have any handlers. Or image consultants. 


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> One thing about Trump; he certainly doesn't SEEM to have any handlers. Or image consultants.


"...or common sense....or informed policy positions....or tact....._ad infinitum_...."


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> We are not for sale ............
> 
> Editorial Cartoon | The Chronicle Herald


:clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> "...or common sense....or informed policy positions....or tact....._ad infinitum_...."


:lmao::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

CubaMark said:


> How lovely to live in a country where law enforcement witnesses an assault, and hauls the victim away, leaving the criminal alone.
> 
> Ah, Amerika.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


And what did that thug who sucker-punched the protester have to say for himself?



> "You bet I liked it, knocking the hell out of that big mouth...He's not acting like an American, cussing me...He deserved it. The next time we see him, we might have to kill him. We don't know who he is. He might be with a terrorist organization."


—Trump supporter John McGraw, arrested for sucker-punching a protester at a Trump rally​(Doonesbury)​


----------



## Macfury

Trump could win this thing! There are eight years of Obama that badly need to be dismantled.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> And what did that thug who sucker-punched the protester have to say for himself?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —Trump supporter John McGraw, arrested for sucker-punching a protester at a Trump rally​(Doonesbury)​



And that's how organizations like the Nazi's come to power. When absolutely horrific targeted violence against total strangers becomes commonplace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

CubaMark said:


> How lovely to live in a country where law enforcement witnesses an assault, and hauls the victim away, leaving the criminal alone.


Consider me amazed:

Man who allegedly punched protester at Trump rally charged with assault


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> And that's how organizations like the Nazi's come to power. When absolutely horrific targeted violence against total strangers becomes commonplace.


How would you explain the violence at Black Lives Matter protests? Very "progressive" folk I understand.


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

My dog sometimes will not accept cheese. It's the darnedest thing.


----------



## Dr.G.

:clap::lmao:


fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My dog sometimes will not accept cheese. It's the darnedest thing.


Are you sure it is a real dog?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Are you sure it is a real dog?


Today, I offered him a small piece of marble cheddar, then a piece of Red Leicester.He sniffed at both of them and turned tail.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Today, I offered him a small piece of marble cheddar, then a piece of Red Leicester.He sniffed at both of them and turned tail.



Our dog (shi-tzu) loves mini carrots and our cat likes lettuce. Go figure. They will both partake of cheese however. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Today, I offered him a small piece of marble cheddar, then a piece of Red Leicester.He sniffed at both of them and turned tail.


Must be a cat.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Our dog (shi-tzu) loves mini carrots and our cat likes lettuce. Go figure. They will both partake of cheese however.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All of our doxies love carrots, but bigger once. They all LOVE cheese ............ but draw the line on lettuce.


----------



## Macfury

Peas. Mine likes to eat peas from a spoon.


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump rally postponed as protesters, supporters clash*

A Donald Trump rally in Chicago has been postponed for safety reasons due to protest activity, a Trump campaign staffer told Reuters.

The announcement that Trump would postpone the rally for another day led the crowd inside the University of Illinois at Chicago Pavilion to break out into raucous cheers.

Meanwhile, supporters of the candidate broke out into chants of "We want Trump! We want Trump!"

There were isolated physical confrontations between some members of the crowd after the event was cancelled.

There was no sign of Trump inside the arena on the college campus, where dozens of UIC faculty and staff had petitioned university administrators to cancel the rally. They cited concerns it would create a "hostile and physically dangerous environment" for students.

Trump supporters and protesters alike filled the arena earlier Friday night for the rally for the U.S. presidential contender, with a handful of intense verbal clashes taking place before the Republican front-runner took the stage.

For the first time during his White House bid, the crowd at a planned rally appeared to be an equal mix of those eager to cheer on the billionaire businessman and those overtly opposed to his candidacy.​
(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

Why are these spoiler so eager to attend a Trump rally?


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump rally postponed as protesters, supporters clash*
> 
> 
> 
> A Donald Trump rally in Chicago has been postponed for safety reasons due to protest activity, a Trump campaign staffer told Reuters.
> 
> 
> 
> The announcement that Trump would postpone the rally for another day led the crowd inside the University of Illinois at Chicago Pavilion to break out into raucous cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, supporters of the candidate broke out into chants of "We want Trump! We want Trump!"
> 
> 
> 
> There were isolated physical confrontations between some members of the crowd after the event was cancelled.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no sign of Trump inside the arena on the college campus, where dozens of UIC faculty and staff had petitioned university administrators to cancel the rally. They cited concerns it would create a "hostile and physically dangerous environment" for students.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump supporters and protesters alike filled the arena earlier Friday night for the rally for the U.S. presidential contender, with a handful of intense verbal clashes taking place before the Republican front-runner took the stage.
> 
> 
> 
> For the first time during his White House bid, the crowd at a planned rally appeared to be an equal mix of those eager to cheer on the billionaire businessman and those overtly opposed to his candidacy.​
> 
> 
> (CBC)



Just a preview of the New America should Trump become president. Remember Back to the Future II? Like that, only more so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Chicago is already like that all the time--and run by Democrats for decades.



fjnmusic said:


> Just a preview of the New America should Trump become president. Remember Back to the Future II? Like that, only more so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Just a preview of the New America should Trump become president. Remember Back to the Future II? Like that, only more so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> Chicago is already like that all the time--and run by Democrats for decades.


The scenes from Chicago reminded me of the 1968 Democratic convention, except for the fact that the police did not wade into the protesters with clubs swinging. Hopefully Trump will take the high road and come out against this sort of confrontation on both sides. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> The scenes from Chicago reminded me of the 1968 Democratic convention, except for the fact that the police did not wade into the protesters with clubs swinging. Hopefully Trump will take the high road and come out against this sort of confrontation on both sides. We shall see.



Trump? High road? And risk his reputation as the biggest bully on the block? If I'm not mistaken, he's the one who endorsed using violence to remove protesters from his rallies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Trump? High road? And risk his reputation as the biggest bully on the block? If I'm not mistaken, he's the one who endorsed using violence to remove protesters from his rallies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, we can hope that he decides to be somewhat presidential rather than what he has said in the past. I do not condone violent protests regardless of which side starts it, since it plays into the hands of those who would like to see the freedom of speech and thought restrained.


----------



## Macfury

The big difference is that Trump supporters are nor showing up at Sanders meetings to raise havoc.


----------



## CubaMark

Well, FWIW, Ted Cruz says Trump is to blame:

Ted Cruz suggests Donald Trump to blame for rally chaos - World - CBC News


----------



## Macfury

Yep, that ain't worth much.



CubaMark said:


> Well, FWIW, Ted Cruz says Trump is to blame:
> 
> Ted Cruz suggests Donald Trump to blame for rally chaos - World - CBC News


----------



## Dr.G.

Violent protests are feeding into the Trump message, just like they did back in 1968 when George Wallace ran on a "law and order" platform. These sorts of disruptions are not acts of logical civil disobedience.


----------



## Dr.G.

So true ................


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So true ................


Would be happy not to have that disaster repeated.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Would be happy not to have that disaster repeated.


Yes, many who went through the Great Depression and WWII would not want those events repeated. Luckily, the US had FDR. Amazing that we are once again in agreement. Have you "felt the Bern"??? 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, many who went through the Great Depression and WWII would not want those events repeated. Luckily, the US had FDR. Amazing that we are once again in agreement.


FDR stretched a four year depression into 12. Brilliant! You and Conrad Black make strange bedfellows Dr. G.



Dr.G. said:


> Have you "felt the Bern"???


I would say Sanders gives me more the feeling of a cold wet blanket.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR stretched a four year depression into 12. Brilliant! You and Conrad Black make strange bedfellows Dr. G.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say Sanders gives me more the feeling of a cold wet blanket.


Black obviously adores Roosevelt. In Black's eyes, FDR could do no wrong: "With the sole possible exception of Abraham Lincoln's conservation of the Union and emancipation of the slaves ... Roosevelt's achievement in bringing the United States out of isolation, invaluably supporting the Allies, and engineering entry into the war by becoming a target of Axis aggression, was the greatest feat of any American statesman in the country's history." Black makes the case that FDR was the most important person of the twentieth century, transforming his nation and the world through his unparalleled skill as a domestic politician, war leader, strategist, and global visionary. I agree. So, I guess I share a bed with His Lordship. 

So, mon ami, if you are cold and need a warm blanket, you may share a spot between His Lordship and myself .............. or take my place and I shall go and canvass for Bernie Sanders.


----------



## fjnmusic

Now here is an analysis of Donald Trump that I can get behind.



Sharpie61 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/opinion/sunday/donald-trumps-epic-neediness.html?_r=0&ref=yfp
> 
> [h=1]Donald Trump’s Epic Neediness[/h]
> 
> AFTER Donald Trump asked voters at a recent rally to raise their hands heavenward in a pledge of fealty to him, a few commentators frothed at the gesture’s supposed evocation of a Nazi salute.
> That wasn’t my take. As much as Trump appalls me, I don’t assign him control over the precise arcs of his supporters’ arms.
> I was and am transfixed by something else: the scope and intensity of his hunger for adulation. It’s bottomless, topless, endless, insatiable. He gazed upon a teeming arena of admirers and neither their presence nor their numbers was quite enough.
> He ached for an extra exhibition of their ardor. He had to issue a command and revel in their obeisance. I’m surprised only that he didn’t ask them to kneel or genuflect, but that could still come. The primaries slog on. The general election looms.
> And Trump’s campaign events have become increasingly unsettling affairs, by turns ludicrous and scary.
> 
> One night he’s turning a supposed victory celebration into an obliquely relevant pitch for Trump wine, Trump water and Trump steaks, to a point where he almost seems poised to bark out a toll-free number and urge consumers to “order now.” Another night he’s canceling a speech in Chicago at the last minute because the gathering has devolved into violent chaos.
> Trump’s candidacy has uncorked more words and analysis than perhaps any in my lifetime, as those of us flailing to make sense of him reach for new insights, novel theories, deeper understanding.
> But while his appeal may be layered, his drive isn’t. What set him in motion was a compulsion to see his face flickering across TV screens, his handle popping up in retweets, his minions arrayed before him. What eggs him on is the sound of his name uttered by pundits, rivals, crowds. To his ears it’s a music sweeter than Beethoven’s, saucier than Beyoncé’s. He tangos to it, or at least his itty-bitty heart does. And he can’t quite hear or fully appreciate the ugliness of some of the noise he has whipped up.
> Everything about Trump’s campaign can be explained in terms of substance abuse: He’s addicted to attention, demanding regular fixes and going to ever greater lengths — in terms of reckless statements and provocative acts — to get them.
> Imagine what that would mean for a Trump presidency. His agenda wouldn’t be conservative, moderate, liberal or for that matter coherent. It would be self-affirming and self-aggrandizing: whatever it takes to remain the focus of everyone’s gaze, the syllable tumbling from everyone’s lips. Trump, Trump, Trump.
> It’s no surprise that some of the instructors at Trump University pressured students into writing rave reviews of the school, as The Times’s Michael Barbaro and Steve Eder recently documented. It existed chiefly to make Trump feel good about himself.
> Of course some of the groupies at Trump’s rallies turn physically aggressive, a phenomenon that drew closer scrutiny and more alarm last week. The man they worship is an agent of agitation with little restraint or decorum of his own.
> Commentators keep marveling at the way he “dominates” or “owns” almost every news cycle, as if what he says and does are all plotted in advance and part of some sophisticated, disciplined political strategy.
> But is he executing a plan or surrendering to a jones? Brilliant or just fruitfully pathological? He mints fresh insults to monopolize the spotlight, but that’s most likely a spontaneous reaction to how cold and lonely he becomes whenever it starts to recede. Maybe he’s a multimedia mastermind, maybe just a publicity glutton. There’s a difference.
> Note the oddity and questionable utility of the frequency with which he still makes those telephone calls to cable news shows and sits down with interrogators. Most politicians with a lead like his would be protecting it somewhat, playing things a bit safer, running out the clock — as he seemed to be doing, belatedly and for the first time, during the debate on Thursday night. A normal front-runner under normal circumstances minimizes his or her exposure, lest a moment be fumbled and a mistake made.
> 
> Not Trump. He has been an interview machine, an interview mill. He can’t help himself. Last week he had two chats with the crew at MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” and a long sit-down with CNN’s Anderson Cooper. He did Fox News at least five times. He did NBC’s “Today,” ABC’s “Good Morning America” and CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
> Are there networks on which he hasn’t appeared? Possibly the Cartoon Network (though it would be fitting).
> When returns come in, other candidates give their speeches and then dash off. Trump lingers, taking question after question from the media. He won’t go away. That’s madness if the aim is a refined message after a triumphant performance, but not if the purpose is to prolong the show and thus enlarge the portion of coverage on which he feeds. Gorging is his real goal.
> That’s fine by us journalists. It’s welcomed. It makes our jobs easier. It makes us feel relevant.
> We complain incessantly about politicians who neglect us, who don’t indulge our requests readily, who skimp on news conferences.
> 
> BUT their reasons are often sound. They understand that everything they say has weight and consequence: that at a certain altitude of leadership, words matter greatly and carry great risk. Trump’s failure to grasp this was evident in his comment in February about a protester who was being ejected from an event in Las Vegas. “I’d like to punch him in the face,” Trump fumed. A leader must speak with care — and in careful measure.
> There’s only one measure for Trump: more. More products bearing his brand. More buildings blaring his name. He’s a modern-day Midas, with a vain twist. Everything he touches turns to Trump.
> He insists on that. Craves it. No reassurance sustains him for too long; no validation suffices. That would be as true of Trump the president as it is of Trump the candidate, and it would dictate the terms and the tempo of a reign from which this country would not soon recover.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

The New York Times is certainly not happy to see the collapse of "progressivism." They would editorialize against any Republican front runner.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The New York Times is certainly not happy to see the collapse of "progressivism." They would editorialize against any Republican front runner.



That's a pretty shallow comment. Did you even read the article?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Thoroughly. Trump is something of a narcissist. That never seemed to turn the NYT on Obama.



fjnmusic said:


> That's a pretty shallow comment. Did you even read the article?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Thoroughly. Trump is something of a narcissist. That never seemed to turn the NYT on Obama.



A rather short comment on a rather long article. If you're going to comment, surely one would think you'd have more to say. Never mind Obama; you're trying to redirect. Do you believe the premise about Trump's underlying motivation is a sound one? Why? Or why not? 


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----------



## Macfury

Pretty directive questions from someone almost pathologically unwilling to answer questions in other threads.

I'll use your typical answer: "I'm sure you can google this..."



fjnmusic said:


> A rather short comment on a rather long article. If you're going to comment, surely one would think you'd have more to say. Never mind Obama; you're trying to redirect. Do you believe the premise about Trump's underlying motivation is a sound one? Why? Or why not?


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Obama is to blame for Trump's desire to run for president.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html?hp


Re the White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner in April 2011 --

"The annual dinner features a lighthearted speech from the president; that year, President Obama chose Mr. Trump, then flirting with his own presidential bid, as a punch line.

He lampooned Mr. Trump’s gaudy taste in décor. He ridiculed his fixation on false rumors that the president had been born in Kenya. He belittled his reality show, “The Celebrity Apprentice.”
Continue reading the main story

Mr. Trump at first offered a drawn smile, then a game wave of the hand. But as the president’s mocking of him continued and people at other tables craned their necks to gauge his reaction, Mr. Trump hunched forward with a frozen grimace."


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Pretty directive questions from someone almost pathologically unwilling to answer questions in other threads.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll use your typical answer: "I'm sure you can google this..."



Ad hominem. Again. Just admit, you didn't read the article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama is to blame for Trump's desire to run for president.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html?hp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Re the White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner in April 2011 --
> 
> 
> 
> "The annual dinner features a lighthearted speech from the president; that year, President Obama chose Mr. Trump, then flirting with his own presidential bid, as a punch line.
> 
> 
> 
> He lampooned Mr. Trump’s gaudy taste in décor. He ridiculed his fixation on false rumors that the president had been born in Kenya. He belittled his reality show, “The Celebrity Apprentice.”
> 
> Continue reading the main story
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Trump at first offered a drawn smile, then a game wave of the hand. But as the president’s mocking of him continued and people at other tables craned their necks to gauge his reaction, Mr. Trump hunched forward with a frozen grimace."



Plotting his revenge in four years, no doubt.


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## Macfury

I read it. However, someone as unwilling to answer direct questions regarding political issues as you are simply doesn't get answers from me on demand. 

If this were another thread, and our roles were reversed, you would be calling me a bully for pressing you to answer.



fjnmusic said:


> Ad hominem. Again. Just admit, you didn't read the article.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Plotting his revenge in four years, no doubt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

What Bobby Kennedy Would Say To Trump - The Daily Beast

"Robert F. Kennedy spoke on April 5th, 1968, a long-gone time when the country’s confidence was also a bit wobbly and people were unsure of the future. His message, his voice, his attitude, his every appearance and intent were clear. He sought to make America great again."


----------



## Macfury

How Bernie Sanders supporters shut down a Donald Trump rally in Chicago | MSNBC

Free speech should be mote important to "progressives."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How Bernie Sanders supporters shut down a Donald Trump rally in Chicago | MSNBC
> 
> Free speech should be mote important to "progressives."


It is, and they were not the ones who "shut down" the rally. Sadly, and here I think we would agree, the freedom of speech on both sides comes with responsibilities. As reprehensible as I find what Trumps says, he has the right to say these things without being disrupted. Passive resistance and non-violent civil disobedience is the way to go, not what we saw in Chicago.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I read it. However, someone as unwilling to answer direct questions regarding political issues as you are simply doesn't get answers from me on demand.
> 
> 
> 
> If this were another thread, and our roles were reversed, you would be calling me a bully for pressing you to answer.



So why don't you just not respond then if you have nothing to say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I'm still open to discussing it with people who are more willing to commit to answers. However, in the past you have asked me to respond directly to your original post, instead of treating it third-party.



fjnmusic said:


> So why don't you just not respond then if you have nothing to say.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I'm still open to discussing it with people who are more willing to commit to answers. However, in the past you have asked me to respond directly to your original post, instead of treating it third-party.



For a guy who has nothing to say, you sure talk a lot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> For a guy who has nothing to say, you sure talk a lot.


I have a lot to say to people willing to commit to their ideas!


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I have a lot to say to people willing to commit to their ideas!



Well, there was a very clear idea put forth in the article I submitted regarding the reason Trump acts the way he does. You deflected this to make a general comment about Obama. I am interested to hear what you or anyone actually thinks about that article before you go and deflect again. It was a thoughtful article that you pretty much dismissed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Well, there was a very clear idea put forth in the article I submitted regarding the reason Trump acts the way he does. You deflected this to make a general comment about Obama. I am interested to hear what you or anyone actually thinks about that article before you go and deflect again. It was a thoughtful article that you pretty much dismissed.


You didn't express an opinion on it. It was just something you googled.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You didn't express an opinion on it. It was just something you googled.



Good lord.

I have nothing to say and I am saying it anyway. - Macfury


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

That's very juvenile. I didn't do that to you when you refused to commit to any thoughts on Notley.



fjnmusic said:


> Good lord.
> 
> I have nothing to say and I am saying it anyway. - Macfury


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's very juvenile. I didn't do that to you when you refused to commit to any thoughts on Notley.



Nope, I'd say it's pretty accurate. Anything to keep that post count up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## heavyall

Bernie and his supporters really need to grow up. Worry about your own campaign instead of acting like children and going to disrupt someone else's.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Bernie and his supporters really need to grow up. Worry about your own campaign instead of acting like children and going to disrupt someone else's.


I love the excuses for the maniac that attacked Trump onstage: Trump's message so outraged him that he became temporarily deranged... therefore it's Trump's fault.


----------



## Rps

Just wondering if a "time-out" is in order. We seem to be getting personal here rather than having civil discussion and sharing points of view....just sayin'.

Just came back from Georgia. The view down there, and I also assume Ky and Tn is that you cannot trust the government and that they conspire against the citizens. I think there is such distrust that the anti politician is gaining traction, thus the reason, I think, Trump is so popular....his populist views resonate...the impression I get is he says what people are thinking. Tomorrow will be critical for him and Bernie, for different reasons.

If Trump takes Florida, he will have achieved political critical mass. However, doing the math, I don't think he will get the nomination from the primaries....it will be a brokered nomination on the convention floor.....if he loses, look out, since it will support the conspiracy view.


----------



## Macfury

The federal government isn't so much conspiring as it is simply no longer acting in the best interests of it citizens. When all is well in NYC and DC, then all is well...



Rps said:


> Just wondering if a "time-out" is in order. We seem to be getting personal here rather than having civil discussion and sharing points of view....just sayin'.
> 
> Just came back from Georgia. The view down there, and I also assume Ky and Tn is that you cannot trust the government and that they conspire against the citizens. I think there is such distrust that the anti politician is gaining traction, thus the reason, I think, Trump is so popular....his populist views resonate...the impression I get is he says what people are thinking. Tomorrow will be critical for him and Bernie, for different reasons.
> 
> If Trump takes Florida, he will have achieved political critical mass. However, doing the math, I don't think he will get the nomination from the primaries....it will be a brokered nomination on the convention floor.....if he loses, look out, since it will support the conspiracy view.


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> Just wondering if a "time-out" is in order. We seem to be getting personal here rather than having civil discussion and sharing points of view....just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> Just came back from Georgia. The view down there, and I also assume Ky and Tn is that you cannot trust the government and that they conspire against the citizens. I think there is such distrust that the anti politician is gaining traction, thus the reason, I think, Trump is so popular....his populist views resonate...the impression I get is he says what people are thinking. Tomorrow will be critical for him and Bernie, for different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> If Trump takes Florida, he will have achieved political critical mass. However, doing the math, I don't think he will get the nomination from the primaries....it will be a brokered nomination on the convention floor.....if he loses, look out, since it will support the conspiracy view.



Amen to your civil discussion observations, Rps. I think Trump takes advantage of people's instinct to distrust, and he makes anyone who protest against him the enemy. He does not condone civil disobedience, he advocates violence and "he'll pay the legal costs," as though that were the only thing wrong with using violence as a solution. He will brook no dissent, and this is still the courtship period. He is jog a nice man and he would not be a fair leader. Rachel Maddow did a revealing piece on Mr Trump a few days ago, including the cancellation of the Chicago rally, and how he encourages the violence. And I fear Trump knows exactly what he's doing. 


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## Macfury

It's interesting that Trump supporters never show up at Clinton or Sanders rallies. This is all on the left.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It's interesting that Trump supporters never show up at Clinton or Sanders rallies. This is all on the left.



How is Trump's advocacy of violence "all on the left"? In a democracy protesters have the right to demonstrate. It's a constitutional right.


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## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> How is Trump's advocacy of violence "all on the left"? In a democracy protesters have the right to demonstrate. It's a constitutional right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly modern protests are bedeviled by professional agitators. They are paid to make sure protests break down into violence. That way the images which make it onto the evening news have no relationship at all to whatever issue the legitimate protesters are attempting to highlight. It also helps make sure the protests do not bring out a sufficient number of people to force an issue.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Sadly modern protests are bedeviled by professional agitators. They are paid to make sure protests break down into violence. That way the images which make it onto the evening news have no relationship at all to whatever issue the legitimate protesters are attempting to highlight. It also helps make sure the protests do not bring out a sufficient number of people to force an issue.


Yep. The point is to target members in the audience to create violent confrontation. They're well versed in how to provoke this and in an audience of 10,000 you'll find a few who will bite.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> It's interesting that Trump supporters never show up at Clinton or Sanders rallies. This is all on the left.


The left in this country does this a lot too. Show up at Conservative functions with the express intention of creating a ruckus so that they can cry to the media that they got kicked out.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Sanders looks ceeepier than usual in that animation.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


>



Hey Mark, how would I save this as a GIF, do you know? It's brilliant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Hey Mark, how would I save this as a GIF, do you know? It's brilliant.


It isn't brilliant, but it is already a GIF. Just drag the file to your desktop!


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> It isn't brilliant, but it is already a GIF. Just drag the file to your desktop!


Or if you must do it the hard way, command click on it and select save image.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It isn't brilliant, but it is already a GIF. Just drag the file to your desktop!



Okay, that's good to know. How about if you're on your iPhone? I rarely use the desktop for ehMac anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

How to Save a GIF on an iPhone: 11 Steps (with Pictures)


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> How to Save a GIF on an iPhone: 11 Steps (with Pictures)



That helps thanks. Them GIFS can be pretty durn big compared with them regular photos. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::lmao::lmao: The Donald feels The Bern.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/pecheguzman/videos/924729610925352/

The way s true leader interacts with protestors.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pecheguzman/videos/924729610925352/
> 
> The way s true leader interacts with protestors.


That's the world's quietest protester compared to the professional agitators they're paying to show up at the Trump rallies. Of course, Obama is speaking at a gated event.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## eMacMan

Anyone who believes Hillary represents anyone but her bankster buds, needs to read this.

The Isaac Brock Society | Hillary Clinton Directly Enabled Tax Evasion in the Swiss Bank Debacle, I Kid You Not


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan: I agree completely. Clinton will be as bad if not worse than Trump, Cruz, etc. 

Meanwhile:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

That's a great ad! That so-called Republican is so confused and ineffectual that it's hard to imagine him even being able to tie his shoes. Good thing he voted for LBJ and an escalation of Viet Nam instead of voting for Goldwater and an escalation of Viet Nam.


----------



## screature

I am so glad I don't live in the US. Living in Canada is bad enough with a PM who thinks "budgets balances themselves" and wins on a platform of deficits and I can hardly bear it...

But what is going on in the US is just pure lunacy.

With Putin, Trudeau, Trump or Clinton... god help us all. We are going to need it.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pecheguzman/videos/924729610925352/
> 
> The way s true leader interacts with protestors.





Macfury said:


> That's the world's quietest protester compared to the professional agitators they're paying to show up at the Trump rallies. Of course, Obama is speaking at a gated event.


That was a very good response. Gated event or not. Well done in terms of an ad lib response to hecklers. He even took the time to look in their direction.

In Marcom terms that was an A+ IMO. Something that we have not seen in Canadian politics for a long, long time JT included.


----------



## CubaMark

*Sanders Sends Vegan Thugs to Attack Peace-Loving Nazis*










_Republican front-runner Donald Trump was crying foul on Monday after Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders allegedly dispatched an army of vegan thugs to attack a rally of peace-loving Nazis in Cincinnati.

According to Trump, he had begun to address a group of “orderly and civil Nazis” at a downtown arena when his audience was suddenly set upon by an unruly mob of angry vegans, many menacingly clad in Birkenstocks and sustainable garments.

The Sanders supporters, singing an alarmingly militant version of Simon & Garfunkel’s “America,” marched into the arena and began “intimidating and threatening” the Nazis, Trump said.

“Make no mistake about who is starting the violence at these rallies,” Trump said. “It’s the vegans.”_​
(NewYorker)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Sanders Sends Vegan Thugs to Attack Peace-Loving Nazis*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Republican front-runner Donald Trump was crying foul on Monday after Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders allegedly dispatched an army of vegan thugs to attack a rally of peace-loving Nazis in Cincinnati.
> 
> According to Trump, he had begun to address a group of “orderly and civil Nazis” at a downtown arena when his audience was suddenly set upon by an unruly mob of angry vegans, many menacingly clad in Birkenstocks and sustainable garments.
> 
> The Sanders supporters, singing an alarmingly militant version of Simon & Garfunkel’s “America,” marched into the arena and began “intimidating and threatening” the Nazis, Trump said.
> 
> “Make no mistake about who is starting the violence at these rallies,” Trump said. “It’s the vegans.”_​
> (NewYorker)


Shocking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

Man, when did the the New Yorker decide to stop being funny?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Man, when did the the New Yorker decide to stop being funny?


:lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

http://youtu.be/OkSRJSUY0vs

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/trendin...d-women-reading-sexist-trump-quotes-1.3492861


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> http://youtu.be/OkSRJSUY0vs
> 
> Women read sexist Donald Trump quotes in powerful new attack ad - Trending - CBC News
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, an anti-Trump super pac produced this using his own words against him.


----------



## Dr.G.

Amazing how with 99% of the vote tabulated, both Trump and Clinton lead in Missouri by apx. 1600 votes. Still too close to call, according to CNN.


----------



## BigDL

Macfury said:


> Man, when did the the New Yorker decide to stop being funny?


Ironic humour is lost on many.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwxybr3MBOY[/ame]


----------



## Rps

Look out America, Trump has achieved political critical mass......my choice Rubio, and probably the choice of GOP leadership has dropped out. Too bad, but I must admit it ...I was as wrong in my open floor prediction as the voters were in there selection.


----------



## Macfury

BigDL said:


> Ironic humour is lost on many.


Irony must also be well done.


----------



## Macfury

Some of the GOP leaders are making peace with Cruz. Others are praying that they can rig a Kasich victory--even Bush or Romney--at a brokered convention. Still others are hoping to arrange a third-party bid with any of those three losers at the helm.

Rubio's machinations with the Gang of Eight on amnesty for illegal aliens were his death knell. Even if he could overcome all of his other challenges, he could never overcome the stigma of that bill.




Rps said:


> Look out America, Trump has achieved political critical mass......my choice Rubio, and probably the choice of GOP leadership has dropped out. Too bad, but I must admit it ...I was as wrong in my open floor prediction as the voters were in there selection.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Some of the GOP leaders are making peace with Cruz. Others are praying that they can rig a Kasich victory--even Bush or Romney--at a brokered convention. Still others are hoping to arrange a third-party bid with any of those three losers at the helm.
> 
> Rubio's machinations with the Gang of Eight on amnesty for illegal aliens were his death knell. Even if he could overcome all of his other challenges, he could never overcome the stigma of that bill.


Whatever happens, it shall be a mess for the Republican Party. Maybe it is best if they go the route they took in 1964 when they got soundly beaten by LBJ, only to win with Nixon in 1968. We shall see.


----------



## BigDL

Macfury said:


> Irony must also be well done.


It is my understanding that conservative's brains are not hard wired in a manner to appreciate irony. 

Similarly, when exposed to a fearful stimulus, conservative's brains are hard wired to pay keen attention to and have a profound reaction to a threat. 

Donald Trump seems to be cashing in on this reality.

I get it. It is not the rugged individualist's fault. It is just the way things happen to be.


----------



## Macfury

Ah, so "progressives" are simply hard-wired to avoid personal responsibility? Got it!



BigDL said:


> It is my understanding that conservative's brains are not hard wired in a manner to appreciate irony.
> 
> Similarly, when exposed to a fearful stimulus, conservative's brains are hard wired to pay keen attention to and have a profound reaction to a threat.
> 
> Donald Trump seems to be cashing in on this reality.
> 
> I get it. It is not the rugged individualist's fault. It is just the way things happen to be.


----------



## FeXL

Like a worm underfoot, twisting, turning...

Facing backlash, Clinton says coal still has a future



> Facing a backlash from Appalachian Democrats, Hillary Clinton's campaign on Monday tried to reaffirm her commitment to coal communities one day after declaring on national television she was going to "to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business."
> 
> Clinton's comments came during a Sunday night appearance on CNN, where she was asked a question about how her policies would benefit poor white people in southern states who generally vote Republican.
> 
> "I'm the only candidate, which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity, using clean renewable energy as the key, into coal country. *Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business*," Clinton said. "We're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people."


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

House unanimously votes to label ISIS atrocities against Christians ‘genocide’



> A vote of the House of Representatives has rebuked the Obama administration’s obstinate refusal to acknowledge the horrifying genocide against Christians underway in the Middle Eastern territories controlled by ISIS.


Further:



> There are important reasons why this blind-eyed stance of the Obama administration is destructive:
> 
> _Doug Napier, senior counsel and executive director of the Alliance Defending Freedom International, said official recognition of genocide would trigger laws in United Nations to investigate and prosecute offenders, as well as oblige the U.S. to take measures to end the violence.
> 
> He said it is irresponsible that the genocide has not already been declared in the face of overwhelming evidence that Christians and other minorities are being specifically persecuted._​


----------



## SINC

And so it begins.

Obama picks moderate for Supreme Court as Senate battle looms | Reuters


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> And so it begins.
> 
> Obama picks moderate for Supreme Court as Senate battle looms | Reuters


:clap::clap::clap:

Good for him. Now it should prove interesting to see if the Republican controlled Senate even holds hearing to provide their "advice and consent", as specified in the Constitution. Interesting as well is that there are seven sitting Republican senators (seven of the Republican senators who confirmed Garland are still in office are Sens. Dan Coats, Thad Cochran, Susan Collins, Orrin Hatch, Jim Inhofe, John McCain and Pat Roberts) who approved Judge Garland when he was appointed as the chief judge for the Washington, D.C. appeals court. So, we shall see if the Republican members in the Senate fulfill their constitutional responsibilities, as has Pres. Obama.

GOP leaders praised SCOTUS pick Merrick Garland -- a lot - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News cancels GOP debate after Donald Trump pulls out - Mar. 16, 2016

It's the ratings, stupid.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump on brokered convention: 'I think you'd have riots' - CNNPolitics.com

Washington (CNN) — "Donald Trump and Ted Cruz warned fellow Republicans Wednesday of dire consequences if the GOP establishment attempts to have a brokered convention this summer.

"I think you'd have riots. I think you'd have riots," Trump said Wednesday on CNN's "New Day." "I'm representing a tremendous many, many millions of people." "

The peasants would riot!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoL6a37d1Rg


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Uvl3Np0mc

The Republicans are not laughing now.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084751194951267/

Good for her. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/DailyWire/videos/1530429543919538/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug


----------



## Macfury

The Republicans are just observing the "Biden rule." Warren is just acting out.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084751194951267/
> 
> Good for her. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Republicans are just observing the "Biden rule." Warren is just acting out.


There is not "Biden rule" in the Constitution, and Warren is acting out of frustration and rightfully so. 

As the old saying goes, "I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?" .................... and, just because Macfury says something is so does not make it so.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

The Constitution does not require the Senate to vote on a Supreme Court justice immediately either. 

Senator Joe Biden in 1992: "President Bush should consider following the practice of the majority of his predecessors and not, and not, name a nominee until after the November election is completed." 

If it's good enough for Uncle Joe...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.









Dr.G. said:


> There is not "Biden rule" in the Constitution, and Warren is acting out of frustration and rightfully so.
> 
> As the old saying goes, "I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?" .................... and, just because Macfury says something is so does not make it so.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

As Biden said "... it is my view ....." So, Sen. Biden was wrong and so are you, Macfury. I don't care if Biden is the VP and that you are the master of the last word ............ it is NOT in the US Constitution. In their Statement of Principles it begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual." Pres. Obama, the sitting president and anyone he nominates to the Supreme Court, are individuals with rights set forth in the Constitution. The Senate does not have to agree with this nomination, as is their right and duty, but they have to do their duty and not become an "omnipotent" entity within the US government. 

Stand on the "side of the angels" on this issue and stand up for the concept "with liberty and justice for all."

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Stand with Chuck Schumer!

Schumer to fight new Bush high court picks - POLITICO



> New York Sen. Charles E. Schumer, a powerful member of the Democratic leadership, said Friday the Senate should not confirm another U.S. Supreme Court nominee under President Bush “except in extraordinary circumstances.”


----------



## Macfury

Stand with Senator Obama!

Obama joins filibuster bid against Alito - tribunedigital-chicagotribune


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Stand with Chuck Schumer!
> 
> Schumer to fight new Bush high court picks - POLITICO


Good point, since Schumer said "a nominee’s record should be weighed more heavily than rhetoric", so let the FBI vet this nominee, as they would any nominee, and let the hearing begin. Then, vote him up or down based on how he was able to present his record.

Good to see we are in agreement once again, mon ami. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...2/the-real-winner-of-super-tuesday-is-canada/

Welcome to the Promised Land. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...2/the-real-winner-of-super-tuesday-is-canada/
> 
> Welcome to the Promised Land. Paix, mes amis.


I am done my limit of free WaPo articles for the month Dr. G. Give us a preview.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I am done my limit of free WaPo articles for the month Dr. G. Give us a preview.


It goes on to contrast the US with Canada, and all that we have to offer a new immigrant. Such as, Trudeau is "the anti-Trump" and Canada, "Long ignored and called derogatory names like “America’s hat,” Canada — that vast expanse of snow and maple trees — became the Promised Land."


----------



## Dr.G.

How To Get Kicked Off Fox News in 5 Minutes | Think About Now

Macfury, you might find this interesting. Even more interesting is that I agree with some of his points (he sounds like a libertarian on some points). I think that I might look for my old copy of Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here". Keep the faith, mon ami. Paix. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here


----------



## Dr.G.

The would be nice ..............

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XncV6EFhu0[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Judge Napolitano was suggested as a Republican presidential candidate--one I would have supported.




Dr.G. said:


> How To Get Kicked Off Fox News in 5 Minutes | Think About Now
> 
> Macfury, you might find this interesting. Even more interesting is that I agree with some of his points (he sounds like a libertarian on some points). I think that I might look for my old copy of Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here". Keep the faith, mon ami. Paix.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I am done my limit of free WaPo articles for the month Dr. G. Give us a preview.


I think it's fabulous. The kind of people who would leave the US if Trump became president are just the sort who would love the progressive province of Ontariowe. Wynneing Americans!

Alberta is behind the curve. For now...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Judge Napolitano was suggested as a Republican presidential candidate--one I would have supported.


Yes, he struck me as an intelligent libertarian .......... way outside of the Fox "faux news" commentators. See, once again, we agree. It is getting to be a habit. Soon, I shall get you to "feel the Bern" ............ but I fear that his time is getting short and I don't see Sanders as getting the nomination. He fought the good fight, and now it will be a Clinton vs Trump "battle royal". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I think it's fabulous. The kind of people who would leave the US if Trump became president are just the sort who would love the progressive province of Ontariowe. Wynneing Americans!
> 
> Alberta is behind the curve. For now...


Nova Scotia is leading the charge to bring Americans to our fine province.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCncXF_Xokc[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiQqdkM20QY[/ame]


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> There is not "Biden rule" in the Constitution, and Warren is acting out of frustration and rightfully so.
> 
> 
> 
> As the old saying goes, "I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?" .................... and, just because Macfury says something is so does not make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



Amen and Shalom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Amen and Shalom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Man these are getting old already.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Sad, but all too true.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Republican establishment insiders are now considering taking over the Libertarian or Constitution party to form a third party should Trump take the regular Republican party nomination. Or Trump could form his own party to run as a third party candidate -- The Re-Trumplican Party.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Republican establishment insiders are now considering taking over the Libertarian or Constitution party to form a third party should Trump take the regular Republican party nomination. Or Trump could form his own party to run as a third party candidate -- The Re-Trumplican Party.


Mostly that sore loser Eric Erickson from Red State who would normally rather chew glass than shake a Libertarian's hand.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sad, but all too true.


There should be no government subsidies of any business beyond normal business expense write-offs that are equal across the board.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There should be no government subsidies of any business beyond normal business expense write-offs that are equal across the board.


Tell that to the corporate "welfare kings and queens" that are reaping in big bonus checks since the US taxpayer bails out their companies. Power to the People. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Mostly that sore loser Eric Erickson from Red State who would normally rather chew glass than shake a Libertarian's hand.


Conservatives gather to plot against Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

I am so glad that I am a Democrat. 

"Anti-Trump forces are getting a sense of the backlash they'd face if they deny him the nomination. Trump warned earlier this week on CNN's "New Day" that the convention could deteriorate into a "riot" if he is blocked from power.

And on Friday, a top Trump aide threatened to give up his credentials as a convention delegate and leave the Republican Party in a stark warning to the GOP about the "consequences" if Trump is blocked from the nomination.

"I will tell you this, if the Republican Party comes into that convention and jimmies with the rules and takes away the will of the people, the will of the Republicans and the Democrats and Independents who voted for Mr. Trump, I will take off my credentials, I will leave the floor of that convention, and I will leave the Republican Party forever," Sam Clovis, a national co-chair for Trump's campaign, said Friday on "New Day." "

Is the GOP's stop Trump campaign too late? - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am so glad that I am a Democrat.


I'm also glad you're a Democrat. It's a revolting job, but I guess somebody has to do it.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Mama always said 'Stupid is as stupid does'."


----------



## Macfury

Please be respectful of your next President.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm also glad you're a Democrat. It's a revolting job, but I guess somebody has to do it.


True ............ except for the revolting part. I would hate having to be a Republican and trying to choose who to support. A person like Jeb Bush looks good just about now. 

Let's see, Ben Carson = Surgeon General, Chris Christie = Attorney General , and, as for Trump's VP .............. ??????????????????

Whom would you suggest run with Trump when/if he gets the nomination?


----------



## Macfury

Jeb Bush never looked good to me. A revolting, wishy washy shell of a man.

I have been thinking about Trump's VP choice for awhile, but haven't settled on my pick. I've thought about a Trump-Cruz ticket which would solidify Republican but may not work more broadly.

I will not countenance Kasich. Other than Cruz, it would have to be someone outside of the primary. Also sufficiently anti-establishment to satisfy Trump's big tent constituency.





Dr.G. said:


> True ............ except for the revolting part. I would hate having to be a Republican and trying to choose who to support. A person like Jeb Bush looks good just about now.
> 
> Let's see, Ben Carson = Surgeon General, Chris Christie = Attorney General , and, as for Trump's VP .............. ??????????????????
> 
> Whom would you suggest run with Trump when/if he gets the nomination?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Please be respectful of your next President.


OK. Would not want to be sent to one of Trump's "re-education camps" ....... and then be billed for paying for the camp's construction costs.

I don't think that Mitt Romney will be able to get the nomination from the floor of the convention.

The Republican Party needs another TR to come to it's rescue.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Jeb Bush never looked good to me. A revolting, wishy washy shell of a man.
> 
> I have been thinking about Trump's VP choice for awhile, but haven't settled on my pick. I've thought about a Trump-Cruz ticket which would solidify Republican but may not work more broadly.
> 
> I will not countenance Kasich. Other than Cruz, it would have to be someone outside of the primary. Also sufficiently anti-establishment to satisfy Trump's big tent constituency.


Yes, Jeb Bush should have been far more forceful in the early days of the primary. I think that he felt it was his for the taking.

Not sure if Cruz would accept the VP slot, not with being labeled "Liar Ted" these past couple of months. 

I agree that Trump would have to go outside of the people who ran for president, but I think that he might look to someone in Congress who could help him guide legislation through both houses of Congress. We shall see. Let's hope it does not come down to that in November.

Who do you think that Clinton will select as VP? While I support Bernie, I don't see him as getting the nomination.


----------



## Dr.G.

What happened to Pres. Ronald Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Where did the Republican party lose sight of that vision?


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney said he would be voting for Ted Cruz in Utah ............. but he has not endorsed him. I wonder if Romney believes he can be drafted from the floor on the second or third round of a contested convention?????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> What happened to Pres. Ronald Reagan's "shining city on a hill"? Where did the Republican party lose sight of that vision?


After eight years of damage by President Obama, you might be able to promise a townhouse on a hill with fluorescent lighting.



Dr.G. said:


> Mitt Romney said he would be voting for Ted Cruz in Utah ............. but he has not endorsed him. I wonder if Romney believes he can be drafted from the floor on the second or third round of a contested convention?????


Deep down he hopes. However, he was never a conservative.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> After eight years of damage by President Obama, you might be able to promise a townhouse on a hill with fluorescent lighting.
> 
> 
> 
> Deep down he hopes. However, he was never a conservative.


Well, let's just agree to disagree re Pres. Obama.

However, I agree with your point about Mitt Romney. I too never saw him as a strict conservative.

I respect your beliefs and intelligence and I have a unique question for you. If you were a Goldwater adviser, who would you have suggested he select as VP. Cong. Miller shocked many of us back then. As well, you are now Nixon's adviser, and who would you have suggested to him to be his VP?


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump on Mitt Romney: 'Are you sure he's a Mormon?' - CNNPolitics.com

Next he will be calling him a Muslim.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump on Mitt Romney: 'Are you sure he's a Mormon?' - CNNPolitics.com


In the context offered, his comment made perfect sense.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> who would you have suggested to him to be his VP?


Same person for both: John C. Calhoun.:clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In the context offered, his comment made perfect sense.


Next he will be saying that he was born Jewish in New York City.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Same person for both: John C. Calhoun.:clap::clap:


Well, that is one way to get South Carolina into the Republican fold, although it usually goes with the Republican party in a general election anyway. Still, as proponent of states' rights, limited government, and nullification he would fit right in, but his support of free trade would have to be switched to "fair trade" if he were to run with Trump.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, he would have been the perfect choice as he submarined two Presidents....a two time loser I guess. More to the point, didn't Calhoun have the theory of Nullification? Nixon would have loved that. I seem to remember Calhoun with this idea, not sure if he ever won it, but lately States Rights have been in the forefront on hot button issues, such as abortion, gay marriage, gay parents adopting, right to work, and yes....gun control.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, not sure, in a global economy, if there is a distinction between Free Trade and Fair Trade.......companies will always reduce costs to gain profit. When you are winning in the balance of trade all is well, but it has a habit of changing direction. So as long as your company is selling abroad it is great, but when the other guys start to gain in your market somehow that is bad. Trump does not seem like a multidirectional trader, but to be fair, neither did his predecessors.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Dr. G, not sure, in a global economy, if there is a distinction between Free Trade and Fair Trade.......companies will always reduce costs to gain profit. When you are winning in the balance of trade all is well, but it has a habit of changing direction. So as long as your company is selling abroad it is great, but when the other guys start to gain in your market somehow that is bad. Trump does not seem like a multidirectional trader, but to be fair, neither did his predecessors.


If reducing your costs means that the government of China is subsidizing them, that's a bit of a problem. If your country is saddled with onerous EPA regulations and another country doesn't have any regulations that's also a problem. Fair trade negotiations can address such things.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Dr. G, not sure, in a global economy, if there is a distinction between Free Trade and Fair Trade.......companies will always reduce costs to gain profit.


.....Well... not to go off on a tangent, but "Free" and "Fair" trade will never equate. "Free" trade isn't just the reduction of international trade tariffs... it's a massive, complicated and in most cases, coerced / imposed arrangement that brings few benefits to the lesser-developed nations. Domestic supermarket chains in Mexico, for example, cannot compete with global powerhouse Wal-Mart, which can undercut what might otherwise be market-determined local prices with the global economy of scale it possesses.

The concept of "only the fittest survive" is ridiculous in the context of trade, as domestic industries have no possibility of maturing to compete agains already-established multinational corporations.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, I somewhat agree. Free and Fair seldom equate. However, your example is at the retail level. Manufacturing is another matter. Mexico has benefitted from NAFTA in the auto and parts industries, so much so that the movement to Mexico is a common occurrence. China pretty much can hold the U.S. for ransom.....ironic that the U.S., itself, gets "Walmarted".

But, trade is seldom free or fair, as you so rightly point out. Many times our tariff rates do not reflect the exporting nations technological reality.
Our position in Canada, in my opinion, has always been a "me too" approach riding the coat tails of the U.S. trade policy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, he would have been the perfect choice as he submarined two Presidents....a two time loser I guess. More to the point, didn't Calhoun have the theory of Nullification? Nixon would have loved that. I seem to remember Calhoun with this idea, not sure if he ever won it, but lately States Rights have been in the forefront on hot button issues, such as abortion, gay marriage, gay parents adopting, right to work, and yes....gun control.


Yes, John Calhoun was a supporter of nullification and state's rights, which he felt would preserve the union. He served in a variety of major cabinet positions under various presidents.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, not sure, in a global economy, if there is a distinction between Free Trade and Fair Trade.......companies will always reduce costs to gain profit. When you are winning in the balance of trade all is well, but it has a habit of changing direction. So as long as your company is selling abroad it is great, but when the other guys start to gain in your market somehow that is bad. Trump does not seem like a multidirectional trader, but to be fair, neither did his predecessors.


Rp, Calhoun was for "free trade" since he did not want anything to disrupt the trading of cotton and tobacco, as well as the slave trade. Trump talks about "fair trade".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If reducing your costs means that the government of China is subsidizing them, that's a bit of a problem. If your country is saddled with onerous EPA regulations and another country doesn't have any regulations that's also a problem. Fair trade negotiations can address such things.


Agreed. Throw in human rights violations for workers, along with the need for great environmental regulations, and you have the dynamic duo for fair trade negotiations.

Amazing how often we are in agreement these days, Macfury. Maybe you are "felling the Bern" ......... or just suffering from Spring fever???


----------



## Macfury

I have scarcely even paid attention to "the Bern." I was curious to see if he would eclipse Hillary, then stopped watching when it appeared impossible.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I have scarcely even paid attention to "the Bern." I was curious to see if he would eclipse Hillary, then stopped watching when it appeared impossible.



It's only "impossible" because Hillary games the system ahead of time with super delegates. If it was straight per individual delegate support the competition would be much closer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Rp, Calhoun was for "free trade" since he did not want anything to disrupt the trading of cotton and tobacco, as well as the slave trade. Trump talks about "fair trade".


Dr. G., I would love to hear Trump's definition of fair trade..........let me see, maybe an agreement where U.S. companies can gain economic advantage. We should not forget that the head offices of companies make the decision to move production not the importing country. That would probably be Trump I think. 

But I do agree with McFury, I have been involved in some trade agreements and it is not just the concept of trade that is discussed. Other agenda items cloud trade issues.

At one time I thought we should move to an EU approach with our North American neighbours instead of NAFTA. Now I am not so sure, since the EU forgot to place controlling aspects of Fiscal and Monetary policy within the same framework. Also the current free movement at borders is now a great threat to the EU, more so than country bail outs.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> It's only "impossible" because Hillary games the system ahead of time with super delegates. If it was straight per individual delegate support the competition would be much closer.


I agree. I ust wanted to see how badly the DNC wanted to kill Sanders with its "stacked deck" policies.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I agree. I ust wanted to see how badly the DNC wanted to kill Sanders with its "stacked deck" policies.


McFury, here's a question for you. If we held a primary system here would you support the Democrats proportional method or the GOP with its winner take all primaries. I can see benefits in both, but am unsure which I would choose if I had to choose one. Thoughts.


----------



## Macfury

My preference is for proportional--which the Republicans also have in some states. No super delegates.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> My preference is for proportional--which the Republicans also have in some states. No super delegates.


I'm leaning to proportional, but these races would be quite different if each party had the same rules and same number of voting delegates. The Super Delegates are the safety valve, but I agree a delegate is a delegate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G., I would love to hear Trump's definition of fair trade..........let me see, maybe an agreement where U.S. companies can gain economic advantage. We should not forget that the head offices of companies make the decision to move production not the importing country. That would probably be Trump I think.
> 
> But I do agree with McFury, I have been involved in some trade agreements and it is not just the concept of trade that is discussed. Other agenda items cloud trade issues.
> 
> At one time I thought we should move to an EU approach with our North American neighbours instead of NAFTA. Now I am not so sure, since the EU forgot to place controlling aspects of Fiscal and Monetary policy within the same framework. Also the current free movement at borders is now a great threat to the EU, more so than country bail outs.


Yes, that about sums up Trump's view of "fair trade". How he will negotiate this sort of deal is still unclear, like most of his promises.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My preference is for proportional--which the Republicans also have in some states. No super delegates.


Again, we agree. More proportional (if not all proportional) and NO super delegates.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I'm leaning to proportional, but these races would be quite different if each party had the same rules and same number of voting delegates. The Super Delegates are the safety valve, but I agree a delegate is a delegate.


A delegate is NOT a delegate if that delegate is beyond the vote of the public, and put in as a delegate since they are the head of the state's party apparatus.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPvUOtxdFQM&feature=youtu.be

Slightly off the current topic, but it is amazing how Cranston looks like LBJ.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPvUOtxdFQM&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Slightly off the current topic, but it is amazing how Cranston looks like LBJ.


Cranston seems to be good in almost everything. He was even great in* Godzilla*.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Cranston seems to be good in almost everything. He was even great in* Godzilla*.


True. Really liked him in Breaking Bad. 

We have GOT to stop agreeing so much or people will start to think that you are my long lost twin brother. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Cranston was amazing as Hal in Malcolm in the Middle too. The one where he loses his kind when the wife goes away for the weekend was so reminiscent of Walter White's lighter moments, right down to the tighty whiteys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Saw him in an old horror movie where he was battling a satanic monkey--and he was even good in that!



fjnmusic said:


> Cranston was amazing as Hal in Malcolm in the Middle too. The one where he loses his kind when the wife goes away for the weekend was so reminiscent of Walter White's lighter moments, right down to the tighty whiteys.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Trump is very deliberately doing this as a communication strategy to reach the most voters.



fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Trump is very deliberately doing this as a communication strategy to reach the most voters.



Indeed. That's the scary part—that there are that many voters who relate.

http://youtu.be/cRly-0wwl_g


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Indeed. That's the scary part—that there are that many voters who relate.
> 
> http://youtu.be/cRly-0wwl_g
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, very scary indeed. He is bring out some of the worst traits in many people these days. Many of his supporters are genuinely frustrated with the promises of the Republican politicians that they vote in year after year after year who backtrack on their promises once elected. Still, there are many Trump supporters who now have a voice for their "inner devils".


----------



## Rps

I think it is more than just Republican supporters Dr. G. I think the past 16 years in the U.S. has contributed to a massive disconnect between the general populace and the elected officials. There is distrust, resentment, anger, and a feeling of helplessness. Tump is merely saying what people are thinking....which can be dangerous. He is very popular in poorer states, and surprisingly, gaining in more wealthy ones. The more bad press the more the voters see evidence of party manipulation and status quoism. Getting Romney to speak was really bone headed and confirms the disconnect.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, very scary indeed. He is bring out some of the worst traits in many people these days. Many of his supporters are genuinely frustrated with the promises of the Republican politicians that they vote in year after year after year who backtrack on their promises once elected. Still, there are many Trump supporters who now have a voice for their "inner devils".


They are also terribly frustrated with Republicans for not standing up to Obama, when elected to do so. There are no "inner devils" at work.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Indeed. That's the scary part—that there are that many voters who relate.
> 
> http://youtu.be/cRly-0wwl_g


Many voters also support a completely unhinged Bernie Sanders, or a corrupt Hillary Clinton. Their inane messages are part of the reason people are turning to Trump.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Many voters also support a completely unhinged Bernie Sanders, or a corrupt Hillary Clinton. Their inane messages are part of the reason people are turning to Trump.



Odd comment. Trump is the personification of unhinged. Sanders may be pissed off, but at least he keeps it real. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Odd comment. Trump is the personification of unhinged. Sanders may be pissed off, but at least he keeps it real.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Odd comment. Trump is the personification of unhinged. Sanders may be pissed off, but at least he keeps it real.


Sanders is a kook-fringe candidate whose only appeal is that he isn't "keepin' it real."


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Sanders is a kook-fringe candidate whose only appeal is that he isn't "keepin' it real."



And once again we see the same world with exactly 180 degrees diametrically opposed eyes. Sanders has a very grassroots and sane following, while Trump's gatherings are more reminiscent of fascist rallies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And once again we see the same world with exactly 180 degrees diametrically opposed eyes. Sanders has a very grassroots and sane following, while Trump's gatherings are more reminiscent of fascist rallies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. Just because someone says that Sanders is a "kook" does not make him one. As my grandfather used to say, "You can put a shoe in the oven but it won't come out a bagel." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

This is just your prejudice talking. Both of them have ardent followers, both grassroots. Only difference is that Sanders is a kook.



fjnmusic said:


> And once again we see the same world with exactly 180 degrees diametrically opposed eyes. Sanders has a very grassroots and sane following, while Trump's gatherings are more reminiscent of fascist rallies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

This is just your prejudice talking. Both of them have ardent followers, both grassroots. Only difference is that Sanders is a kook--and his followers are just waiting for the government teat to start producing for them.



fjnmusic said:


> And once again we see the same world with exactly 180 degrees diametrically opposed eyes. Sanders has a very grassroots and sane following, while Trump's gatherings are more reminiscent of fascist rallies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> This is just your prejudice talking. Both of them have ardent followers, both grassroots. Only difference is that Sanders is a kook--and his followers are just waiting for the government teat to start producing for them.



Perhaps you should say it once more—third time's a charm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I haven't said it as often a you've repeated yourself on your admiration for Notley--but I guess the 25th time is the charm on that one.



fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps you should say it once more—third time's a charm.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Sometimes the truth hurts.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/ConservativeClownCar/videos/1022083281160730/

An interesting twist on a good show from the 60s.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/ConservativeClownCar/videos/1022083281160730/
> 
> An interesting twist on a good show from the 60s.


Someone needs to do _The Addams Family_, with John Kerry as Lurch... and Bernie Sanders as Cousin Itt.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Someone needs to do _The Addams Family_, with John Kerry as Lurch... and Bernie Sanders as Cousin Itt.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## MacGuiver

Macfury said:


> This is just your prejudice talking. Both of them have ardent followers, both grassroots. Only difference is that Sanders is a kook--and his followers are just waiting for the government teat to start producing for them.


If you haven't seen this yet you'll get a kick out of it.

[ame="https://youtu.be/MjcD4ZBagZA"]https://youtu.be/MjcD4ZBagZA[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

MacGuiver said:


> If you haven't seen this yet you'll get a kick out of it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/MjcD4ZBagZA


That's great! Pops the lid right off it!


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tive/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

Put this into the "too little, too late" category.


----------



## Macfury

I would put it in the "nothing—and also too late" category.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tive/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation
> 
> Put this into the "too little, too late" category.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would put it in the "nothing—and also too late" category.


Well, he is able to deliver all of 4 delegates to the Cruz campaign, which counters, a bit, the 9 delegates that Carson brings to the Trump side of the ledger.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he is able to deliver all of 4 delegates to the Cruz campaign, which counters, a bit, the 9 delegates that Carson brings to the Trump side of the ledger.


Bush will not need to "throw" his support to Cruz--just nudge it over.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Bush will not need to "throw" his support to Cruz--just nudge it over.


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Clips - Season 23: House of Cards: Donald Trump - This Hour Has 22 Minutes

Have a chuckle.


----------



## SINC

.


----------



## CubaMark

*Well, Dr.G., there is a precedent for this sort of thing....*  








_On January 9, Fidel Castro entered the capital. He had stopped in several cities on his trek westward from the Sierra Maestra to meet and greet people and talk of justice and independence. That evening as Castro’s speech was directed at trying to persuade rival revolutionary groups to disarm, an extraordinary phenomenon occurred. A white dove landed on Fidel’s shoulder. (Did he stage this or did it just happen?)

For the babalaos, the high priests of Santeria, Cuba’s popular religion, the dove signified a clear message from the gods. From then on, Fidel took on the stature of Obatallah, the god of immense strength and will that will guide the people on its true course. His name on the street became el caballo, the horse, the animal that symbolizes that diety. From then on, Fidel acquired truly charismatic stature_ (Saul Landau / ZComm)​


----------



## Rps

Sinc, not sure what the symbolism is here with Bernie. Is it his campaign is for the birds, or his speech is nothing to crow about.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


>


Good one. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


>


https://www.facebook.com/KGWTV8/videos/10153333771685736/

It's starting to get Canadian coverage as well.

Bernie Sanders upstaged by a bird in Portland - Trending - CBC News

Mother Nature's apparent endorsement for U.S. president??????????


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Well, Dr.G., there is a precedent for this sort of thing....*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _On January 9, Fidel Castro entered the capital. He had stopped in several cities on his trek westward from the Sierra Maestra to meet and greet people and talk of justice and independence. That evening as Castro’s speech was directed at trying to persuade rival revolutionary groups to disarm, an extraordinary phenomenon occurred. A white dove landed on Fidel’s shoulder. (Did he stage this or did it just happen?)
> 
> For the babalaos, the high priests of Santeria, Cuba’s popular religion, the dove signified a clear message from the gods. From then on, Fidel took on the stature of Obatallah, the god of immense strength and will that will guide the people on its true course. His name on the street became el caballo, the horse, the animal that symbolizes that diety. From then on, Fidel acquired truly charismatic stature_ (Saul Landau / ZComm)​


https://www.facebook.com/KGWTV8/videos/10153333771685736/


----------



## fjnmusic

I think it's the juxtaposition. 
http://youtu.be/-KjuRpSlS1I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

MacGuiver said:


> If you haven't seen this yet you'll get a kick out of it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/MjcD4ZBagZA





Macfury said:


> That's great! Pops the lid right off it!


That was pretty funny, good satire, but noting more than that really.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


>





Rps said:


> Sinc, not sure what the symbolism is here with Bernie. Is it his campaign is for the birds, or his speech is nothing to crow about.


Yeah I don't get it either.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Yeah I don't get it either.


Mother Nature's apparent endorsement for U.S. president?????????? 

And, as well all know ............. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUecymQ3zxs[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Petition pushes to allow guns at GOP convention - CNNPolitics.com

Makes sense to me. The NRA should pull support for any candidate who does not come out in favor of this change of policy inside the convention center. The smart candidates will also hand out small weapons to it's supporters along with buttons and banners. 

""In order to ensure the safety of your supporters, delegates and all attendees at the convention in July, you must call upon the RNC to rectify this affront to our Second Amendment freedoms and insist upon a suspension of the Quicken Loans Arena's unconstitutional 'gun-free zone' loophole," the petition reads.

The petition says Cleveland is a violent city and cites the threat of terrorism and all three Republican candidates' opposition to gun-free zones as reasons why attendees should be allowed to carry inside the arena.

"We are all too familiar with the mass carnage that can occur when citizens are denied their basic God-given rights to carry handguns or assault weapons in public," the petition reads. "


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting. In a CNN interview, Trump said that the two times America was "great" in his opinion, which is what he wants to restore, was during the time that Teddy Roosevelt was president and Eisenhower was president. What is interesting is that TR was a progressive Republican and Ike was a moderate Republican. Neither could make it to the convention with enough delegates to get the nomination of the Republican Party these days.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, guns at the GOP...I guess it is difficult finding people of the right caliber.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, guns at the GOP...I guess it is difficult finding people of the right caliber.


:lmao::lmao:

Good one, Rp. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Feel the Bern!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

A history lesson for Donald Trump - World - CBC News

An interesting article.


----------



## CubaMark

*For Game of Thrones fans:*


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Trudeau is a fool. The problem is that more people are building closer to the coast.


----------



## Macfury

JFK could not be elected today--he would be seen by the Dems as a right wing ideologue.



Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. In a CNN interview, Trump said that the two times America was "great" in his opinion, which is what he wants to restore, was during the time that Teddy Roosevelt was president and Eisenhower was president. What is interesting is that TR was a progressive Republican and Ike was a moderate Republican. Neither could make it to the convention with enough delegates to get the nomination of the Republican Party these days.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> JFK could not be elected today--he would be seen by the Dems as a right wing ideologue.


No way. RFK would be beating both Clinton and Sanders in the Democratic primary races, and he would swamp whomever the Republicans finally do nominate. Still, we truly needed him more back in 1968. Such is Life. Paix, mom ami.


----------



## Macfury

Not at all, Dr. G. They are not socialist enough for today's Democrats. They embrace too many freedoms.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not at all, Dr. G. They are not socialist enough for today's Democrats. They embrace too many freedoms.


We disagree here, mon ami. Stick to the Libertarian Party for your support on the mood of the US electorate. Speaking of the US Libertarian Party, there is a poll that shows former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, their presidential candidate, polling with 10% of the vote, vs 53% for Clinton and 37% for Trump. If I was a US Libertarian party supporter, there would be no way I would support Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> They are not socialist enough for today's Democrats. They embrace too many freedoms.


You truly believe that the U.S. Democratic Party is _socialist_? Might want to re-open that political dictionary, MF. Wow. :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You truly believe that the U.S. Democratic Party is _socialist_? Might want to re-open that political dictionary, MF. Wow. :yikes:


Socialist _enough_.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We disagree here, mon ami. Stick to the Libertarian Party for your support on the mood of the US electorate. \.


Respectfully, I shall not!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Respectfully, I shall not!


Have you given up on the US Libertarian party and their platform?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Have you given up on the US Libertarian party and their platform?


Not at all. However, youe original comment assayed the mood of _Republican _voters.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not at all. However, youe original comment assayed the mood of _Republican _voters.


OK. I misunderstood your comment. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

"He complained that Iran isn't buying our planes. It had to be pointed out to him
that Iran is still under sanctions and cannot buy American planes. 
He thinks North Korea and Iran are the biggest trading partners, 
when North Korea's biggest trading partner is China. He is 
completely uneducated about any part of the world."​
_—Andrea Mitchell on foreign policy interview with Donald Trump_

(Doonesbury)
(Video at MediaMatters)​


----------



## Macfury

This should be broadcast in all 57 states.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/SarahSilverman/videos/1094429410607151/

An interesting endorsement for Bernie Sanders. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/SarahSilverman/videos/1094429410607151/
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting endorsement for Bernie Sanders. :clap: :clap: :clap:



She has also done an entertaining interview on Conan where she plays Hitler, who is annoyed with being compared with Donald Trump all the time.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/stephanie-cegielski-donald-trump-campaign-defector

An interesting perspective re The Donald.


----------



## Dr.G.

Republican convention should allow open carry of guns, petitioners say - World - CBC News

"Those who signed petition are out of luck, as Secret Service says no chance" Poop on the Secret Service. I think that the Convention Hall should "give it a shot" and allow open carry in the hall. It would make the chance of a second or third ballot that much more interesting to see delegates held at gunpoint to cast their votes for a particular person. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/donald-trump-presidential-campaign

It could happen. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Moment in time: On this day, the final U.S. troops leave Vietnam as Americans were divided over the war. March 29, 1973 saw the last U.S. combat troops left Vietnam, flying home to a country that was deeply divided over the conflict. Lest we forget. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## fjnmusic

From another forum on the subject. This seems plausible to me.



Sharpie61 said:


> Things that make you go HMMMMMM
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ex-trump-insider-donald-doesn-191100209.html
> 
> [h=1]Ex-Trump Insider: Donald Doesn’t Want to Be President[/h]
> 
> In an open letter to voters supporting Donald Trump in the Republican presidential primary, the former communications director of Trump’s now-defunct Super PAC said that the former reality television star not only never expected to be the Republican nominee, much less president, but never even wanted to be.
> Writing for the website xojane.com, Stephanie Cegielski said that when she was brought aboard as communications director for the Make America Great Again PAC last summer, the instructions from Trump Tower were to make sure that Trump finished a respectable second in the GOP primary. It was made clear that Trump was running not as a serious contender, but as a “protest” candidate
> “I don't think even Trump thought he would get this far,” she wrote. “And I don’t even know that he wanted to, which is perhaps the scariest prospect of all.
> 
> “He certainly was never prepared or equipped to go all the way to the White House, but his ego has now taken over the driver's seat, and nothing else matters. The Donald does not fail. The Donald does not have any weakness.”
> The Trump campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment on this story.
> Cegielski, now an adjunct professor at New York University and the owner of a communications firm, said that she was a true believer herself when she was recruited to join the Super PAC.
> “I was tired of the rhetoric in Washington. Negativity and stubbornness were at an all-time high, and the presidential prospects didn't look promising,” she wrote. In 2015, I fell in love with the idea of the protest candidate who was not bought by corporations. A man who sat in a Manhattan high-rise he had built, making waves as a straight talker with a business background, full of successes and failures, who wanted America to return to greatness. I was sold.”
> 
> But as time went on, she said, she came to realize that Trump’s entry into the race had always been about raising his own profile, not about actually winning a presidential nomination.
> 
> “Trump never intended to be the candidate. But his pride is too out of control to stop him now,” she wrote.
> “He doesn't want the White House. He just wants to be able to say that he could have run the White House. He’s achieved that already and then some. If there is any question, take it from someone who was recruited to help the candidate succeed, and initially very much wanted him to do so.”
> Cegielski, an attorney and the former vice president of public relations for the Public Relations Society of America, could be dismissed as a disgruntled former employee. The Trump campaign shut down the PAC that she worked for in October.
> (Interestingly, Cegielski describes the move to shut the Super PAC as an “internal decision” made “in order to position him as the quintessential non-politician.” It’s unclear, but this at least suggests a degree of coordination between the campaign and the Super PAC, which would violate election laws.)
> 
> However, Cegielski said that she supported the decision to shut down the PAC and continued to support Trump “with great passion” afterward. It was only slowly, as she began to look at Trump “as a member of the voting public rather than a communications person charged with protecting his positions,” that she started to feel disillusioned.
> 
> In the end, she said, she decided that Trump is not an authentic voice for disaffected Americans alienated from Washington and left behind by the global economy.
> Speaking to current Trump supporters, she wrote, “He is not that voice. He is not your voice. He is only Trump's voice.”






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> From another forum on the subject. This seems plausible to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess you really do have to be careful what you wish for. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders: This year's biggest story - CNN.com

An interesting article.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Bernie Sanders: This year's biggest story - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting article.




You bet! Sanders for the win in '16.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> You bet! Sanders for the win in '16.


That would be nice, although I think that just like in 1968 when I was a Gene McCarthy supporter, I think that the nomination will go to Clinton. However, if she ignores the progressive wing of the Democratic party, the Republican candidate will win. I pray that Bernie's supporters do not sit on the sidelines and allow the Republicans to win. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

I hope this link works. Clinton ad c/o SNL.

https://www.facebook.com/snl/videos/10153980181616303/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I hope this link works. Clinton ad c/o SNL.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/snl/videos/10153980181616303/
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good one. :lmao:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzbF0CszTt8[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9YsAjONgqI[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

The US can't survive another Democrat administration. I hope Bernie and Hillary both go down in flames.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The US can't survive another Democrat administration. I hope Bernie and Hillary both go down in flames.


Hillary or Bernie might be the only survival candidate for the US if Trump or Cruz is the alternative. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hillary or Bernie might be the only survival candidate for the US if Trump or Cruz is the alternative. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Either Trump or Cruz could do a better job than either hapless Hillary or Bernie.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Either Trump or Cruz could do a better job than either hapless Hillary or Bernie.


Well, I say that either Hillary or Bernie could do a much better job than Donald or Ted. So, let's agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, — What is truth? and of the affections, — What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ...Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit." Emerson in "The American Scholar".


----------



## Macfury

Emerson supports Trump!



Dr.G. said:


> "So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, — What is truth? and of the affections, — What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ...Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit." Emerson in "The American Scholar".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Emerson supports Trump!


Emerson support Bernie.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Emerson support Bernie.



You say black I say white
You say bark I say bite
You say shark I say hey man
Jaws was never my scene
And I don't like Star Wars

You say Rolls I say Royce
You say God give me a choice
You say Lord I say Christ
I don't believe in Peter Pan
Frankenstein or Superman
All I wanna do is

Bicycle bicycle bicycle


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> You say black I say white
> You say bark I say bite
> You say shark I say hey man
> Jaws was never my scene
> And I don't like Star Wars
> 
> You say Rolls I say Royce
> You say God give me a choice
> You say Lord I say Christ
> I don't believe in Peter Pan
> Frankenstein or Superman
> All I wanna do is
> 
> Bicycle bicycle bicycle


:lmao::clap::lmao: Merci, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nQiiES9_I[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/travel/emigrating-from-us-donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html

Come to Nova Scotia.


----------



## CubaMark

*Bernie Sanders Has an Interesting Theory About Why the Republican Party Exists*

Rachel Maddow posed an interesting question to Sen. Bernie Sanders during their interview on Wednesday: Would he like to see the Republican party just disappear? Sanders' answer was also an interesting one. He didn't take the bait; instead, he offered an alternative theory—the GOP would disappear if corporate media simply told the truth about the party's agenda.

Sanders didn't mean that as hyperbole. By his estimate, the Republican Party would drop to single-digit support if it weren't for negligence by the press:



> I think if we had a media in this country that was really prepared to look at what the Republicans actually stood for rather than quoting every absurd remark of Donald Trump, talking about Republican Party, talking about hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks for the top two tenths of 1 percent, cuts to Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, a party which with few exceptions doesn't even acknowledge the reality of climate change, let alone do anything about it, a party which is not prepared to stand with women in the fight for pay equity, a party that is not prepared to do anything about a broken criminal justice system or a corrupt campaign finance system, I think, to be honest with you—and I just don't, you know, say this rhetorically, this is a fringe party. It is a fringe party. Maybe they get 5, 10 percent of the vote.


"The Republican Party today now is a joke," he continued, "maintained by a media which really does not force them to discuss their issues."​
(Mother Jones)


----------



## Macfury

The American media at large is in the pocket of the Democrat party. If it turned a wary eye to the Dems in the same way that they grill Republicans, the Democrat party would be shattered.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ron Paul was being interviewed on CNN today. He said he would not vote for either Clinton or Trump, might consider Sanders, but would most likely vote for the Green or Libertarian Party if it was a choice between Clinton and Trump, and there was no "none of the above" section on his ballot.


----------



## Macfury

That certainly taints Ron Paul in my estimation. Sanders is the least Libertarian of the lot.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The American media at large is in the pocket of the Democrat party. If it turned a wary eye to the Dems in the same way that they grill Republicans, the Democrat party would be shattered.


You are kidding right? Have you seen the media coverage in the U.S. ....I mean you actually travel through some states and look at the local and national media.....Why do you think Trump is doing so well......because the Dems own the media? Geographically, the more south you go and west you go , excluding California, the more conservative the people are, and thus the media. News is a product today, to be sold to an awaiting public. Like cans of Coke, burgers and political parties, they are marketed to the consumer.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You are kidding right? Have you seen the media coverage in the U.S. ....I mean you actually travel through some states and look at the local and national media.....Why do you think Trump is doing so well......because the Dems own the media? Geographically, the more south you go and west you go , excluding California, the more conservative the people are, and thus the media. News is a product today, to be sold to an awaiting public. Like cans of Coke, burgers and political parties, they are marketed to the consumer.


Very true. In parts of the deep south, Fox news is seen as somewhat moderate. The local news is where you might find the true conservatism in the US, and the media is certainly NOT biased towards the Democrats.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That certainly taints Ron Paul in my estimation. Sanders is the least Libertarian of the lot.


Well, he said "none of the above", The Libertarian Party, The Green Party and Bernie Sanders in that order if told he would have to vote.


----------



## Macfury

Fox is somewhat moderate. Most reporters and news outlets are in the tank for the Dems.

Trump owns the media because he is an expert at manipulating it, not because the US media is balanced in any way, shape or form.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Fox is somewhat moderate. Most reporters and news outlets are in the tank for the Dems.
> 
> Trump owns the media because he is an expert at manipulating it, not because the US media is balanced in any way, shape or form.


Change your comment "Fox is somewhat moderate. Most reporters and news outlets are in the tank for the Dems." to "... in the tank for monied Republicans" and we are in agreement.

"Trump owns the media because he is an expert at manipulating it, not because the US media is balanced in any way, shape or form." We agree here. The right leaning media is beside itself at how to stop Trump, and yet, they feed the machine due to ratings. More Trump news, no matter how crude or outlandish, means higher ratings. I am sad to see that CNN has fallen into this trap. I go to PBS for balanced news.


----------



## Macfury

It is your own prism that sees PBS as balanced news, Dr. G. I once heard an interesting exercise on NPR in which the hosts of a show were shocked that they were not considered balanced. A guest dissected one of their programs to show them that their leftist bias was so institutionalized that they could not recognize it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is your own prism that sees PBS as balanced news, Dr. G. I once heard an interesting exercise on NPR in which the hosts of a show were shocked that they were not considered balanced. A guest dissected one of their programs to show them that their leftist bias was so institutionalized that they could not recognize it.


Well, that prism works both ways, and just because you disagree with my point of view does not mean you are correct. So, let's once again agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, that prism works both ways, and just because you disagree with my point of view does not mean you are correct. So, let's once again agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.




Just as I thought it was going alright
I find out I'm wrong, when I thought I was right
s'always the same, it's just a shame, that's all
I could say day, and you'd say night
tell me it's black when I know that it's white
s'always the same, it's just a shame, that's all


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Just as I thought it was going alright
> I find out I'm wrong, when I thought I was right
> s'always the same, it's just a shame, that's all
> I could say day, and you'd say night
> tell me it's black when I know that it's white
> s'always the same, it's just a shame, that's all


:clap::clap:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttR9Hek6MyA[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump meets with RNC Chair Reince Priebus - CNNPolitics.com

Very interesting.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> Well, that prism works both ways, and just because you disagree with my point of view does not mean you are correct. So, let's once again agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


The media is a failed institution. I don't think this is completely a left-right debate. It fails everybody on all sides. The media is biased towards sensationalism and narratives above all else. I find that most stories will leave out critical information that undermines the premise of the story itself. 

The good news is that the media is losing it's power as time goes on. There is less and less need to have people 'filter' and present information to you. Today, you can just go directly to the source and see the information yourself. 

As an example, the other day I saw a headline on the New York Times citing a study about something interesting. Instead of reading the story, I googled the actual study and read the Executive Summary from the author himself. Why do I want to read somebody else's take on that study when I can go direct to the source, especially when the 'journalist' isn't schooled or experienced in science or statistics?

I also think internet forums and hearing diverse opinions (e.g. this forum) will always give you more insight than reading the opinion of a single 'journalist' that usually carries a bias.

I have completely given up on the media. I canceled my TV subscription. I don't watch the 'news' or read newspapers. I feel like I am more informed than ever.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> The media is a failed institution. I don't think this is completely a left-right debate. It fails everybody on all sides. The media is biased towards sensationalism and narratives above all else. I find that most stories will leave out critical information that undermines the premise of the story itself.
> 
> The good news is that the media is losing it's power as time goes on. There is less and less need to have people 'filter' and present information to you. Today, you can just go directly to the source and see the information yourself.
> 
> As an example, the other day I saw a headline on the New York Times citing a study about something interesting. Instead of reading the story, I googled the actual study and read the Executive Summary from the author himself. Why do I want to read somebody else's take on that study when I can go direct to the source, especially when the 'journalist' isn't schooled or experienced in science or statistics?
> 
> I also think internet forums and hearing diverse opinions (e.g. this forum) will always give you more insight than reading the opinion of a single 'journalist' that usually carries a bias.
> 
> I have completely given up on the media. I canceled my TV subscription. I don't watch the 'news' or read newspapers. I feel like I am more informed than ever.


I see your point, mon ami. Sadly, I miss the days when Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Eric Severide et al, were the lead journalists on CBS in the US. Those were people I could really trust.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/topic/Ben-...ce=whfrt&position=2&trqid=6268636105391872400

A way to cool off if you "feel the Bern".


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> I see your point, mon ami. Sadly, I miss the days when Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Eric Severide et al, were the lead journalists on CBS in the US. Those were people I could really trust.


I think Shakespeare would get a real kick out of watching the nightly news.

The format and structure is no different than a play. It has all the structural elements of a play (e.g. drama, comedy and catharsis) and different presenters play different roles (e.g. the zany weatherman). Most stories follow a standard formula, which play on different archetypes that the public subconsciously has. I think that's partly the root of where media narratives come from... they play to our own expectations for a story and entertainment. A story needs to have a 'good guy' and a 'bad guy'. If you're trying to entertain people, you can't undermine those narratives and show people the world as it really is. 

I think it would be a real trip to watch an hour of the nightly news from 20 years ago. I guarantee a person would walk away wth a totally different perspective. 

Anyway, my view is that the media is more in the entertainment business than in the news business, whether they know it or not.


----------



## Macfury

Vandave said:


> I think it would be a real trip to watch an hour of the nightly news from 20 years ago. I guarantee a person would walk away wth a totally different perspective.


One of my hobbies is collecting vintage television broadcasts. You can see a massive shift to leftist narratives even over the 20-year period. Compared to broadcasts form the 1970s, it's night and day. The change is much heavier in the US broadcasts, less so in CBC broadcasts, which were already tilting left 20 years ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> I think Shakespeare would get a real kick out of watching the nightly news.
> 
> The format and structure is no different than a play. It has all the structural elements of a play (e.g. drama, comedy and catharsis) and different presenters play different roles (e.g. the zany weatherman). Most stories follow a standard formula, which play on different archetypes that the public subconsciously has. I think that's partly the root of where media narratives come from... they play to our own expectations for a story and entertainment. A story needs to have a 'good guy' and a 'bad guy'. If you're trying to entertain people, you can't undermine those narratives and show people the world as it really is.
> 
> I think it would be a real trip to watch an hour of the nightly news from 20 years ago. I guarantee a person would walk away wth a totally different perspective.
> 
> Anyway, my view is that the media is more in the entertainment business than in the news business, whether they know it or not.


An interesting analysis, Vandave.

"I think it would be a real trip to watch an hour of the nightly news from 20 years ago. I guarantee a person would walk away wth a totally different perspective. " True. I recall LBJ saying after a Walter Cronkite editorial comment against the war in Vietnam "If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America.” 

This happened when CBS Nightly News anchor Walter Cronkite concluded a special broadcast on the recent Tet Offensive with a rare, brief, and potent editorial suggesting that America cease fighting the Vietnam War.

That evening, the highly-respected and influential Cronkite said:

"To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy’s intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations. But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could."

As Cronkite would end his nightly news on CBS, "And that's the way it is."

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Vandave

I'm not old enough to make the judgement if news was better in the past (say 20 or 30 years ago) than today. There is a general tendency to glorify the past as the 'good old days' and often such views are incorrect (e.g. things are generally getting better by most measures). Despite that, I do think that view is probably correct based on my limited observations. I suspect things started to go downhill right around the time CNN started the 24 hour news cycle.


----------



## Vandave

I think a good tool for looking at the media is to turn the tables and imagine how a story would look by turning it 180 degrees.

For example... we saw a lot of media coverage of the Chicago protests against the Donald Trump rally, many of which were Bernie supporters. The coverage was more or less negative against Trump and that his rhetoric was creating turmoil and violence.

Now imagine if Bernie was speaking in Chicago and thousands of right wing people showed up to shut him down with some carrying Trump signs. What would the narrative look like in that case? I think the words fascist and thug would be prevalent. 

Imagine if right wing people shut down a highway like protestors did in Arizona.

Another example in Canada would be Syrian refugees. Trudeau wasn't able to bring process as many people as promised, but he hardly got any criticism. Had Harper been the PM, the media would have been all over him.

I would argue that all these examples aren't really the media creating a bias, so much as they are playing to our own biases.


----------



## Macfury

The reporting was no better, and there was a lot of innuendo that is no longer present. However, the political bias was less strong.




Vandave said:


> I'm not old enough to make the judgement if news was better in the past (say 20 or 30 years ago) than today. There is a general tendency to glorify the past as the 'good old days' and often such views are incorrect (e.g. things are generally getting better by most measures). Despite that, I do think that view is probably correct based on my limited observations. I suspect things started to go downhill right around the time CNN started the 24 hour news cycle.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> I'm not old enough to make the judgement if news was better in the past (say 20 or 30 years ago) than today. There is a general tendency to glorify the past as the 'good old days' and often such views are incorrect (e.g. things are generally getting better by most measures). Despite that, I do think that view is probably correct based on my limited observations. I suspect things started to go downhill right around the time CNN started the 24 hour news cycle.


Having been born and raised in NYC as a "baby boomer", I was able to watch first-hand the greats of TV journalism, Murrow, Cronkite, Severide, Huntley/Brinkley, William F. Buckley, George Will, et al. There was an intelligence and honesty to these journalists which I find lacking in many TV faces and voices these days.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Having been born and raised in NYC as a "baby boomer", I was able to watch first-hand the greats of TV journalism, Murrow, Cronkite, Severide, Huntley/Brinkley, William F. Buckley, George Will, et al. There was an intelligence and honesty to these journalists which I find lacking in many TV faces and voices these days.


A huge difference between a David Brinkley hosting a Sunday public affairs program and a political operative like George Stephanopoulos shilling for the Democrat party as host of the same program.


----------



## Vandave

Another one is Trump and the KKK issue. 

Imagine if Trump had the ties to Strom Thurmond that Hillary did. How would the media narrative play out if that was the case? It would be 24 / 7 of negative coverage. But, Hillary gets a pass on it other than the odd right wing commentator making the point in defence of Trump's lack of a statement.

Again, I would argue that's not some type of conspiracy or left wing media bias. It's just playing to the archetypes and biases the public has. People link the right wing with fascism and racism while people link the left with liberal acceptance. That's why it's not a story for Hillary, but would be for Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A huge difference between a David Brinkley hosting a Sunday public affairs program and a political operative like George Stephanopoulos shilling for the Democrat party as host of the same program.


Agreed. I trusted Huntley and Brinkley way back when.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Imagine if Trump had the ties to Strom Thurmond that Hillary did." Not sure what these ties are, Vandave.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> "Imagine if Trump had the ties to Strom Thurmond that Hillary did." Not sure what these ties are, Vandave.


I haven't actually researched it too closely, but from what I understand she said nice things about him and there are a number of photos with her embracing him. None of that bothers me because I don't think you should shun people that had dopey ideas for their whole life.

Maybe that's not the best example. It's not hard to think of others when you look at the news the way I suggest people should do now and then. Flip the script and ask yourself how that story would look coming from the other direction.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> I haven't actually researched it too closely, but from what I understand she said nice things about him and there are a number of photos with her embracing him. None of that bothers me because I don't think you should shun people that had dopey ideas for their whole life.
> 
> Maybe that's not the best example. It's not hard to think of others when you look at the news the way I suggest people should do now and then. Flip the script and ask yourself how that story would look coming from the other direction.


A valid point, Vandave.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dr.G. said:


> Having been born and raised in NYC as a "baby boomer", I was able to watch first-hand the greats of TV journalism, Murrow, Cronkite, Severide, Huntley/Brinkley, William F. Buckley, George Will, et al. There was an intelligence and honesty to these journalists which I find lacking in many TV faces and voices these days.


Mea culpa. I should have added Bill Moyers, Robert MacNeil and Jim Lehrer to this list of journalists I respect.


----------



## Rps

Vandave said:


> . I suspect things started to go downhill right around the time CNN started the 24 hour news cycle.


Bingo! News is now entertainment. Does anyone really trust the news today.

I'm not a Trump fan, but his hoof and mouth is clearly augmented by the cable media. And,McFury, it is not a left or right thing, it's a ratings thing.

Take the recent comment by the Donald on abortion that is everywhere right now.
In the interview he was asked if abortion was illegal would you punish the female. Not being the brightest, he nicely stepped on that land mine and said yes. Okay, so you do something that is against the law and you shouldn't be punished? What he should have said was, while I may disagree with abortions, criminalizing them is wrong. He just said the first thing which popped in his ideologically driven head. But the news media is ranting that Trump wants to punish women.....they left out the part of the question which stated if it was illegal. So if stealing is against the law, is it okay for a starving person to steal......or how about being a sex worker which is not illegal, just plying your trade. The media is targeting its reports to suit their ratings. On the other hand, his dumbness in giving answers shows that The Donald should get all the press he deserves.


----------



## Macfury

It is a left and right thing. When Democrats make gaffes, they are heavily under-reported, regardless of ratings.



Rps said:


> Bingo! News is now entertainment. Does anyone really trust the news today.
> 
> I'm not a Trump fan, but his hoof and mouth is clearly augmented by the cable media. And,McFury, it is not a left or right thing, it's a ratings thing.
> 
> Take the recent comment by the Donald on abortion that is everywhere right now.
> In the interview he was asked if abortion was illegal would you punish the female. Not being the brightest, he nicely stepped on that land mine and said yes. Okay, so you do something that is against the law and you shouldn't be punished? What he should have said was, while I may disagree with abortions, criminalizing them is wrong. He just said the first thing which popped in his ideologically driven head. But the news media is ranting that Trump wants to punish women.....they left out the part of the question which stated if it was illegal. So if stealing is against the law, is it okay for a starving person to steal......or how about being a sex worker which is not illegal, just plying your trade. The media is targeting its reports to suit their ratings. On the other hand, his dumbness in giving answers shows that The Donald should get all the press he deserves.


----------



## Rps

So you think CNN, MSNBC are Democrat engines?

Not sure of the numbers, but last time I looked Fox was the most watched news on cable.....Fox doesn't seem like a Democrat engine to me.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, they're Democrat engines. Fox is slowly moving there.



Rps said:


> So you think CNN, MSNBC are Democrat engines?
> 
> Not sure of the numbers, but last time I looked Fox was the most watched news on cable.....Fox doesn't seem like a Democrat engine to me.


----------



## Rps

Ahhhh! That explains what's happened to Glen Beck.


----------



## FeXL

How long before he's back in the Middle East, plotting, killing...

Obama to Release Ex-Fighter from Bin Laden’s  55th Arab Brigade From Gitmo



> The Pentagon plans to transfer roughly a dozen detainees from the Guantanamo Bay military prison to other nations, *including an Islamic extremist who fought in Osama bin Laden’s 55th Arab Brigade.*


More:



> “[Ba Odah] is assessed to be an Islamic extremist and possible member of al-Qaida. Detainee served as a fighter in Osama bin Laden’s 55th Arab Brigade, and participated in hostilities against U.S. and coalition forces in [bin Laden’s] Tora Bora Mountain complex where he probably manned a mortar position. Detainee is reported as being an important man with close ties to senior al-Quaida members including [bin Laden],” the file reads.


Further:



> The officials declined to identify the countries that agreed to resettle the prisoners.


Of course...


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh, the iron...

Administration's efforts to reduce red tape results in $16-billion increase in costs\



> The American Action Forum has released a scathing report taking the Obama administration to task for its paperwork reduction efforts.
> 
> While the president directed the agencies to repeal, modify, or remove rules that contributed unnecessarily to the red tape burden of businesses, government bureaucrats responded by expanding some regs while failing to remove or modify other burdensome rules.


More:



> _The American Action Forum has found the reviews consist mostly of recycled regulations by federal agencies that have actually increased regulatory costs.
> 
> *“The recent ‘retrospective reports’ from the administration reveal that executive agencies have added more than $16 billion in regulatory costs, up from $14.7 billion in the previous update, and 6.5 million paperwork hours,”* the report said.
> 
> The agency reviews are a result of President Barack Obama’s initiative for a “government-wide review of rules on the books,” which the White House claims to have led to $28 billion in net five-year savings since 2011.​_


M'bold.

Only the government...


----------



## FeXL

'Course! Can't use the "I" and "T" words. Doesn't fit the narrative...

French Sources Now Reporting That The White House Cut Translation of Hollande's Words When He Mentioned "Islamist Terrorism"



> _At the beginning of the summit on nuclear security, President This F***ing Guy and his French opposite number had made a mutual declaration, speaking mostly about ISIS. The tone was serious, engaged, resolute. But, as revealed by the Media Research Center, an american conservative media watchdog group, the speech of the french president wasn't translated for several seconds. And this cut followed just after he [Hollande] pronounced the words "islamist terrorism."
> 
> Francis Hollande had said:
> 
> *We are conscious of the source of islamist terrorism, it is in Syria and it is in Iraq. And we must act in Iraq and in Syrie.* That is what we are doing in the framework of the coalition. And we note that ISIS has been knocked back thanks to the strikes that we have led in this framework of this coalition.
> 
> This video [video of French version omitted] was itself published by the president's office of France. *On the American side, the accounting is * a tiny little bit* diferent.*​_


M'bold.

From the link: Mais oui, evidement.

Yes...


----------



## Dr.G.

Feel the Bern ............. and believe. Imagine a Sander vs Trump presidential election. Very interesting.


----------



## Macfury

Sanders is the king of hand-outs, thus his popularity... to people with their hands out.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Defaced Bernie Sanders Yard Sign Turned Anti-Socialism Meme Goes Viral



> A meme meant to demonstrate socialism’s flawed philosophy is going mega viral online. The pictured posted on Robert Mcclary’s Facebook page shows a
> Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) for president yard sign that has been cut in half with a message attached.
> 
> “I took half of your sign because you had one and I didn’t,” a note attached to the yard sign read. “I’m sure you understand.”
> 
> Sanders’ promise to eradicate inequality by making the middle class pay more, is the cornerstone of his presidential campaign.
> 
> “Socialism,” the meme says, “a great idea…until it shows up in your front yard.”


Brilliant...


----------



## Macfury

Very true, FeXL.



FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Defaced Bernie Sanders Yard Sign Turned Anti-Socialism Meme Goes Viral
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sanders is the king of hand-outs, thus his popularity... to people with their hands out.


Yes, to shake the hand of their neighbor, or to provide a helping hand up for someone in need. Glad you "feel the Bern", Macfury. Welcome to the cause. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0[/ame]

Macfury, I think that this is the start of a beautiful friendship.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDhGS4EJS8M[/ame]


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, to shake the hand of their neighbor, or to provide a helping hand up for someone in need. Glad you "feel the Bern", Macfury. Welcome to the cause.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> Macfury, I think that this is the start of a beautiful friendship.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDhGS4EJS8M[/ame]




Brilliant!


----------



## Macfury

What is brilliant? _Casabalanca?_


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What is brilliant? _Casabalanca?_


Yes, the film is brilliant, but more brilliant is the fact that we are friends in spite of our political differences. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Most Deranged Moments From Donald Trump's Insane Interview With Veteran Journalist Bob Woodward*

​
_Donald Trump, as is his wont, gave an absolutely bonkers interview this week, this time to venerate reporters Bob Woodward and Robert Costa of The Washington Post. The transcript, which reads like the transcript of a young child’s screed about wanting to be king of the playground, is chock-full of bizarre ramblings from the Republican presidential frontrunner. And through it all, Woodward and Costa try in vain, sometimes hilariously so, to get a single coherent answer out of Trump.

After one lengthy back-and-forth wherein Woodward and Costa try and fail to get Trump to tell them exactly when he actually decided to run for president, the reporters bring up what now seems such an obvious question: didn’t anyone warn you?_​
(Washington Post via Gawker)


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *The Most Deranged Moments From Donald Trump's Insane Interview With Veteran Journalist Bob Woodward*
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> _Donald Trump, as is his wont, gave an absolutely bonkers interview this week, this time to venerate reporters Bob Woodward and Robert Costa of The Washington Post. The transcript, which reads like the transcript of a young child’s screed about wanting to be king of the playground, is chock-full of bizarre ramblings from the Republican presidential frontrunner. And through it all, Woodward and Costa try in vain, sometimes hilariously so, to get a single coherent answer out of Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> After one lengthy back-and-forth wherein Woodward and Costa try and fail to get Trump to tell them exactly when he actually decided to run for president, the reporters bring up what now seems such an obvious question: didn’t anyone warn you?_​
> 
> 
> (Washington Post via Gawker)




The man makes it up as he goes along, resulting in some very nasty, bizarre and reactionary responses to what should be some rather simple questions. This kind of hothead is not someone you want with his finger on the red button.


----------



## CubaMark

I read the transcript through to the end. I'm not sure how to react to it... part of me is horrified that someone this clueless could even be in the running as a Presidential contender, and another part wants to see him take office just to watch the glorious train-wreck that would result. 

If we were playing word association, my response to "Trump" would be: "Disaster".

And people in this forum actually believe he would make a competent candidate. :yikes: Bewildering.


----------



## Macfury

Having seen the Obama trainwreck, I would be willing to give anyone else a chance--except another Democrat.





CubaMark said:


> I read the transcript through to the end. I'm not sure how to react to it... part of me is horrified that someone this clueless could even be in the running as a Presidential contender, and another part wants to see him take office just to watch the glorious train-wreck that would result.
> 
> If we were playing word association, my response to "Trump" would be: "Disaster".
> 
> And people in this forum actually believe he would make a competent candidate. :yikes: Bewildering.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I read the transcript through to the end. I'm not sure how to react to it... part of me is horrified that someone this clueless could even be in the running as a Presidential contender, and another part wants to see him take office just to watch the glorious train-wreck that would result.
> 
> If we were playing word association, my response to "Trump" would be: "Disaster".
> 
> And people in this forum actually believe he would make a competent candidate. :yikes: Bewildering.


He was really rambling when he spoke of Nixon and Vince Lombardi. When he starts to yell "Hi Yo, Silver" at his rallies, it is time for us to worry.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td4RHvyAFsM[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Very interesting. They could possibly be the swing votes in a very close convention. We shall see.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/u...c=edit_tnt_20160403&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Having seen the Obama trainwreck, I would be willing to give anyone else a chance--except another Democrat.


Right on, Brother Macfury. Let's just ignore these accomplishments and move on. Paix, mon ami. 

PCTC* | President Obama Has Done a LOT! A List of 340 Accomplishments so far, With Citations


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on, Brother Macfury. Let's just ignore these accomplishments and move on. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> PCTC* | President Obama Has Done a LOT! A List of 340 Accomplishments so far, With Citations


Most of these are the opinion of the writer. For those actions I accept to be true, I do not consider them achievements. Some are neutral, many are wasteful and many more are outright harmful to both American freedom and the economy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Most of these are the opinion of the writer. For those actions I accept to be true, I do not consider them achievements. Some are neutral, many are wasteful and many more are outright harmful to both American freedom and the economy.


A valid point, Macfury. Still, this is your opinion, which you are free to make. Just keep in mind that just because you say that some of the things that Pres. Obama has done are "outright harmful to both American freedom and the economy", does not make it true. As I said, it is your opinion.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, Macfury. Still, this is your opinion, which you are free to make. Just keep in mind that just because you say that some of the things that Pres. Obama has done are "outright harmful to both American freedom and the economy", does not make it true. As I said, it is your opinion.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


In many cases it is demonstrably true. He has presided over the worst non-recovery from a recession in history, ramped up the greatest debt in history and overseen a period of massive regulatory over-reach.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In many cases it is demonstrably true. He has presided over the worst non-recovery from a recession in history, ramped up the greatest debt in history and overseen a period of massive regulatory over-reach.


Slight revisions are necessary in your posting, Macfury. He was handed the worst economic situation since the Great Depression, and there are few that can honestly say that the US is worse off today than it was when he took office.

As I keep saying, just because you say something is one way or the other, does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Lest we forget ........

Moment in time: April 4, 1968 - Martin Luther King Jr., whose personal courage and devotion to non-violence led the transformational 1960s civil-rights movement, was assassinated. Sadness and outrage spread across a country already troubled by racial conflict and the anti-Vietnam War movement.


----------



## Macfury

President Obama could have done a better job of a turnaround by doing nothing than by actively depressing the economy. As it is, it is the worst record of a recovery from a recession in history.

Thanks to natural cyclical resilience, the economy is in only slightly better shape than when president Obama took office.



Dr.G. said:


> Slight revisions are necessary in your posting, Macfury. He was handed the worst economic situation since the Great Depression, and there are few that can honestly say that the US is worse off today than it was when he took office.
> 
> As I keep saying, just because you say something is one way or the other, does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> President Obama could have done a better job of a turnaround by doing nothing than by actively depressing the economy. As it is, it is the worst record of a recovery from a recession in history.
> 
> Thanks to natural cyclical resilience, the economy is in only slightly better shape than when president Obama took office.


Once again, let's agree to disagree rather than a back and forth discussion on our various interpretations about the economic recovery. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> President Obama could have done a better job of a turnaround by doing nothing than by actively depressing the economy. As it is, it is the worst record of a recovery from a recession in history.
> 
> Thanks to natural cyclical resilience, the economy is in only slightly better shape than when president Obama took office.


You obviously don't have a 401K that many of our U.S. Brothers and Sister have.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Once again, let's agree to disagree rather than a back and forth discussion on our various interpretations about the economic recovery. Paix, mon ami.



Certainly--however, should you attempt to once again elevate the President's dismal record, I'll be back at it!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You obviously don't have a 401K that many of our U.S. Brothers and Sister have.


I don't understand. I said the recovery was dismal. How have 401Ks bucked that trend?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't understand. I said the recovery was dismal. How have 401Ks bucked that trend?


It's called a rise in value.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> It's called a rise in value.


You're not talking specifically about 401Ks but the stock market and not all 401Ks are stock based. A reckless policy of quantitative easing has goosed the stock market even though the underlying economic fundamentals don't support stock prices. A failed economic stimulus policy has seen the money wind up in the hands of institutional investors instead of consumers. Americans with 401Ks invested heavily in stocks will be happy for now, but I see no reason for that price bubble to be sustainable.


----------



## Rps

I somewhat agree. There is no question that the market has almost tripled since 2008. This, whether you agree or not is an indication of market recovery. I do agree with you that the bubble will soon burst, a sign that it maybe artificial and not real value incurred. However, what's real and what's artificial. Amazon has risen in value since inception even though it has sustained ongoing losses....all based on the idea that "this is the way". With that said, markets are most often based on confidence......so if you believe there will be a lack of confidence coming, and it's hard not to argue this point, then they will indeed collapse. At issue, I see, is that the ABCP and greed which caused the fall in 2008 is repeating itself without, again, reign by the SEC and governments at any level.


----------



## Macfury

I don't believe the market strength is based on confidence, except confidence that the central banks will continue the cheap money supply. It's based on a large infusion of government cash and the _lack of confidence_ among investors in investing in the US economy. They've bid up the markets and are reaping a windfall--and once the central banks dry up the money supply, they will leave before the individual investor realizes what is happening.



Rps said:


> I somewhat agree. There is no question that the market has almost tripled since 2008. This, whether you agree or not is an indication of market recovery. I do agree with you that the bubble will soon burst, a sign that it maybe artificial and not real value incurred. However, what's real and what's artificial. Amazon has risen in value since inception even though it has sustained ongoing losses....all based on the idea that "this is the way". With that said, markets are most often based on confidence......so if you believe there will be a lack of confidence coming, and it's hard not to argue this point, then they will indeed collapse. At issue, I see, is that the ABCP and greed which caused the fall in 2008 is repeating itself without, again, reign by the SEC and governments at any level.


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Running Eagle / Walking Eagle : snopes.com

*FALSE:*



> The first online version of this joke we saw targeted Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, who was then (i.e., in 2004) on the campaign trail as the Democratic presidential nominee.


----------



## FeXL

OK, so she may have been out of line with her profiling.

Spitballin' here, does she get her job back if the description turns out to be accurate? Along with a public apology from her boss? And a raise?

Jes' askin'...

Pittsburgh station fires newswoman over black-on-black crime Facebook post



> A Pittsburgh TV station cut ties with one of its longtime anchorwomen on Wednesday over a controversial Facebook post that many consider racist.
> 
> Wendy Bell, who had been with WTAE for 18 years, had speculated about the likely profiles of the gunmen who killed five adults and an unborn baby at a barbeque in Wilkinsburg, Pa., on March 9.
> 
> “You needn't be a criminal profiler to draw a mental sketch of the killers who broke so many hearts two weeks ago Wednesday. I will tell you they live within 5 miles of Franklin Avenue and Ardmore Boulevard and have been hiding out since in a home likely much closer to that backyard patio than anyone thinks,” she wrote on Facebook. “They are young black men, likely teens or in their early 20s. They have multiple siblings from multiple fathers and their mothers work multiple jobs. These boys have been in the system before. They’ve grown up there. They know the police. They’ve been arrested.”


----------



## FeXL

Obamaphones? Not enough. Now, they come with Obamanet!

Obamaphone expands to Obama-Internet, with little thought of cost, abuse



> The Federal Communications Commission agreed Thursday to expand the Obamaphone, dubbed the LifeLine Program, to include high-speed Internet access. By doing so, the cost of the program will increase by 50 percent, without any efforts to reduce spending elsewhere, or clamp down on the program’s waste, fraud and abuse.
> 
> “Failing a major change in direction, the FCC is preparing to massively expand the size and scope of the Lifeline Program without the necessary inclusion of a hard budget or financial constraints,” conservative FCC Commissioner Michael O’Reilly wrote in his blog on the commission’s website.
> 
> “Such irresponsible action will balloon a program plagued by waste, fraud, and abuse and result in higher phone bills for every American — including those already struggling in the current economy. In sum, it’s a recipe for disaster, and I can’t and won’t be part of it,” he said.


----------



## Dr.G.

Could Republican delegates be bought? Legally, maybe - CNNPolitics.com

This will be a unique way to distribute super PAC money. :greedy:


----------



## Dr.G.

The most contested convention was the infamous 1924 Democratic national convention, a 16-day contest that at times devolved into fistfights, obscenity-laced screaming and even a gathering of tens of thousands of Ku Klux Klan members, according to historical accounts.

After an absurd 103 ballots were called, the party finally settled on relative outsider John W. Davis, former U.S. ambassador to the U.K.

So, the Republican convention in Cleveland, OH will be mild compared to 1924 and the Democratic convention. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

This one will trump that!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> This one will trump that!


:lmao::clap::lmao: We shall see, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160407&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Very interesting that you will vote for someone but not endorse that person.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160407&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> Very interesting that you will vote for someone but not endorse that person.


I take that as meaning he's not so married to the choice that he expects anyone else to do what he says, nor does he intend to try to convince people of it.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> I take that as meaning he's not so married to the choice that he expects anyone else to do what he says, nor does he intend to try to convince people of it.


Well, it does leave his options open to change his mind at the last minute. An endorsement is hard to walk back. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
By Robert Frost 

Whose woods these are I think I know. 
His house is in the village though; 
He will not see me stopping here 
To watch his woods fill up with snow. 

My little horse must think it queer 
To stop without a farmhouse near 
Between the woods and frozen lake 
The darkest evening of the year. 

He gives his harness bells a shake 
To ask if there is some mistake. 
The only other sound’s the sweep 
Of easy wind and downy flake. 

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, 
But I have promises to keep, 
And miles to go before I sleep, 
And miles to go before I sleep.
____________________________________________________

Stopping By The Woods On A Snowy Evening – By Donald J Trump

I have a pretty good idea whose woods these are, believe me.
And let me tell you something, my people say he’s a complete nobody.
This guy lives in the village. So what if he sees me stopping here?
I dare him to sue me! I dare him!

And by the way, this snow is pathetic.
These are by far, the least downy flakes ever!
I hear they had to import them from Canada.
I don’t know. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn’t. We’re looking into it.

My horse – he’s the most incredible horse, seriously,
I have the greatest, the classiest horses –
My horse doesn’t even know what the hell we’re doing here.
The horses love me though. They do.
They’re always shaking their bells at me, it’s very loving.
It’s a beautiful thing.

Let me tell you something, these woods are an embarrassment.
They’re not dark. They’re not deep. They’re nothing. They’re for losers.
And I cannot wait to sue this guy.
I cannot wait to sue this guy.

Stopping By The Woods On A Snowy Evening – By Donald J Trump | The Rotting Post


----------



## zen.state

I wish we could swap the US with Europe - then Asia and Africa would have to deal with Americans on their doorstep.


----------



## Dr.G.

What happened the last time Republicans faced a contested convention - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting article. I recall the newspaper articles about how Baker was a "miracle man" getting Ford the nomination over Reagan back in 1976.


----------



## Macfury

To think we could have been spared the entire Carter administration had Reagan won the presidency in '76.



Dr.G. said:


> What happened the last time Republicans faced a contested convention - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> An interesting article. I recall the newspaper articles about how Baker was a "miracle man" getting Ford the nomination over Reagan back in 1976.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> To think we could have been spared the entire Carter administration had Reagan won the presidency in '76.


Well, I voted for Carter in Georgia ............ and it was the last vote for president that I cast where someone actually won the state of Georgia.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I voted for Carter in Georgia ............ and it was the last vote for president that I cast where someone actually won the state of Georgia.


The best I can say about that presidency is that I enjoyed the antics of his brother Billy... especially when he applied for a loan to the government of the Soviet Union.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The best I can say about that presidency is that I enjoyed the antics of his brother Billy... especially when he applied for a loan to the government of the Soviet Union.


He was a good president in my opinion, Macfury. So, let's just agree to disagree and move on to the upcoming election this November. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> He was a good president in my opinion, Macfury. So, let's just agree to disagree and move on to the upcoming election this November. Paix, mon ami.


I'd rather focus on Billy.. he was a panic!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'd rather focus on Billy.. he was a panic!


Billy Beer was a beer first made in the United States of America in July 1977, by the Falls City Brewing Company, and was promoted by Billy Carter. I left Georgia in June, 1977, to come to Memorial University to teach, but a friend of mine brought a six-pack of Billy Beer up to NYC when I came home for the Christmas vacation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Washington (CNN) — There has long been an air of conspiracy surrounding theories of alien life, and the head of Hillary Clinton's campaign said Thursday it's time to do away with the secrecy.

Hillary Clinton campaign chair: 'The American people can handle the truth' on UFOs - CNNPolitics.com

This just in from the National Enquirer -- Sanders accuses Clinton of being abducted by aliens.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary should already know the truth.



Dr.G. said:


> Washington (CNN) — There has long been an air of conspiracy surrounding theories of alien life, and the head of Hillary Clinton's campaign said Thursday it's time to do away with the secrecy.
> 
> Hillary Clinton campaign chair: 'The American people can handle the truth' on UFOs - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This just in from the National Enquirer -- Sanders accuses Clinton of being abducted by aliens.


----------



## zen.state

Does the US really want to risk letting a female cuckold become president?


----------



## Macfury

zen.state said:


> Does the US really want to risk letting a female cuckold become president?


It's a celebration of victimhood. 

Seriously, Hillary was an enabler who helped destroy the reputations of many women whom Bill Clinton accosted and abused.


----------



## zen.state

Macfury said:


> It's a celebration of victimhood.
> 
> Seriously, Hillary was an enabler who helped destroy the reputations of many women whom Bill Clinton accosted and abused.


Especially the brunette with the BJ lips. 

Couldn't resist.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d062438bb_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_evening

This is going to make the Republican National Convention even more interesting. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uld-do-with-the-money-the-rich-hide-overseas/

:greedy:tptptptp:greedy:tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Laura Bush SLAMS The GOP, Says She'd Rather Vote For Hillary Than A Republican ‹ Winning Democrats

Did not see that one coming. Good for her!! :clap: :clap:


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Laura Bush SLAMS The GOP, Says She'd Rather Vote For Hillary Than A Republican ‹ Winning Democrats
> 
> Did not see that one coming. Good for her!! :clap: :clap:


Of course the bar is set pretty low when Hillary looks to be the BAP. (Best Available Poolitician)


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Laura Bush SLAMS The GOP, Says She'd Rather Vote For Hillary Than A Republican ‹ Winning Democrats
> 
> Did not see that one coming. Good for her!! :clap: :clap:


You did not see that coming because it did not come. The article doesn't say that at all.


----------



## SINC

Hehehe . . .





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hehehe . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Cute .............. :lmao::clap:


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> You did not see that coming because it did not come. The article doesn't say that at all.


You think the editor of the Winning Demcrats left out the word "hinted" in the headline deliberately? beejaconbeejacon


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You think the editor of the Winning Demcrats left out the word "hinted" in the headline deliberately? beejaconbeejacon


Laura Bush hints she'd rather see Hillary as president


----------



## SINC

An interesting twist as to how the Trump fortune began:

First Nation hopes to lure tourists to B.C. ghost town where Donald Trump’s grandpa ran a brothel | National Post


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> An interesting twist as to how the Trump fortune began:
> 
> First Nation hopes to lure tourists to B.C. ghost town where Donald Trump’s grandpa ran a brothel | National Post


I'll just put up the laugh icon, some are just too easy....:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/topic/The-Boston-Globe/112017682148719?source=share&tr=1460447880

An interesting way to get across an editorial point of view.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> An interesting twist as to how the Trump fortune began:
> 
> First Nation hopes to lure tourists to B.C. ghost town where Donald Trump’s grandpa ran a brothel | National Post


His grandpa ran a brothel; his daddy wouldn't rent apartments to black folks in NYC; yep, quite a lineage there....


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...ccuses-ted-cruzs-campaign-of-gestapo-tactics/

Another interesting article. Things are starting to get really nasty with the Republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Despite Risks, G.O.P. Seeks to Stop Trump Before Convention - NYTimes.com

The plot thickens ...................


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...e-sanders-did-not-disappoint-at-coney-island/

............ and then again, it maintains a true New York City tradition.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/12/b...t_tnt_20160411&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

An interesting article, especially when you look at Trump and if you know anything about Huey Long.


----------



## eMacMan

I wonder why this is getting close to zero play in the Lame-stream? Maybe the guys that control Congress and the Press don't want any part of this notion to filter down to the unblessed public!

'Democracy Spring' protesters arrested at Capitol Hill sit-in - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## FeXL

Amazing, the similarities to the Democrat's roots, no?



CubaMark said:


> ...yep, quite a lineage there....


----------



## FeXL

Yo, Barry! What would be the point? Have you seen what's happening all over the US? It doesn't matter if people vote or not. The gods are already preordained...

Barack Obama praises Australia's mandatory voting rules



> President Barack Obama says if the US followed Australia and introduced mandatory voting at elections it would have a transformative impact on America.
> 
> The president, speaking to students at the University of Chicago Law School, said *the US has some of the lowest voting rates of any advanced democracy in the world.*


M'bold.

Because people already recognize the folly...


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/u...t_tnt_20160412&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

This was a surprise to me in that I thought he was being courted as possible draft candidate in a contested convention.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/u...t_tnt_20160412&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> This was a surprise to me in that I thought he was being courted as possible draft candidate in a contested convention.


Other people have been mentioning his name, but Ryan has been consistently saying he does not want to run for president in this election. I personally took that to mean that he's got longer term plans to run big in a future election.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Other people have been mentioning his name, but Ryan has been consistently saying he does not want to run for president in this election. I personally took that to mean that he's got longer term plans to run big in a future election.


He said the same thing about refusing the speaker position.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> Other people have been mentioning his name, but Ryan has been consistently saying he does not want to run for president in this election. I personally took that to mean that he's got longer term plans to run big in a future election.


That is what I am thinking. He is young enough to be able to run years into the future. We shall see.


----------



## Vandave

heavyall said:


> Other people have been mentioning his name, but Ryan has been consistently saying he does not want to run for president in this election. I personally took that to mean that he's got longer term plans to run big in a future election.


He would be crazy to put his name in the ring. If anybody other than Trump or Cruz is selected as the candidate, there will be hell to pay from the grassroots.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> He would be crazy to put his name in the ring. If anybody other than Trump or Cruz is selected as the candidate, there will be hell to pay from the grassroots.


A valid analysis of the current situation, Vandave.


----------



## Macfury

Vandave said:


> He would be crazy to put his name in the ring. If anybody other than Trump or Cruz is selected as the candidate, there will be hell to pay from the grassroots.


The Republican establishment would rather lose the presidency and preserve their gravy train than have either Cruz or Trump dismantle it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Republican establishment would rather lose the presidency and preserve their gravy train than have either Cruz or Trump dismantle it.


True. The "down ticket" candidates would rather see anyone but Cruz or Trump at the top of their ticket. We shall see.


----------



## Vandave

Macfury said:


> The Republican establishment would rather lose the presidency and preserve their gravy train than have either Cruz or Trump dismantle it.


Ya, these people hate outsiders because they risk losing all the scheming they have done. Same thing on the Democratic side which is why all those super delegates are aligned with Hillary. Power trumps ideology.

I think Trump and Cruz should shut out the potential of an outsider in the event it goes to convention. You'd think they would at least agree on that.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> Ya, these people hate outsiders because they risk losing all the scheming they have done. Same thing on the Democratic side which is why all those super delegates are aligned with Hillary. Power trumps ideology.
> 
> I think Trump and Cruz should shut out the potential of an outsider in the event it goes to convention. You'd think they would at least agree on that.


CNN just reported that a Clinton top aide was just quoted as saying that the Sanders campaign was trying to "steal" Democratic super delegates from Clinton. Seems as if people in the Sanders campaign were trying to convince these super delegates that he should get some of the super delegate support in states where he was the clear victor in terms of actual votes. Many of these super delegates declared their "allegiance" to Clinton even before their state primary/caucus.

Something about a kettle and blackness seem to come to mind just now.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, c'mon! What's 12 zeroes between friends?

Hillary promises a _trillion_ dollars in new taxes if elected



> Not to be outdone by Bernie Sanders in promising free stuff to voters, Hillary Clinton is promising to raise taxes by an astounding trillion dollars a year. Taking that kind money out of the economy and putting it into the hands of government bureaucrats will tank the economy. But of course, with so many members of the voting pubic not paying income taxes, this may actually be an attractive proposition to them.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, c'mon! It was only a 7 zero mistake...

Further of the Charlie Foxtrot.

ICYMI: Projection On The Number Insured By Obamacare Was Off By 24 Million



> So, the Congressional Budget Office had an update on the 2016 projections regarding Americans being insured by the Affordable Care Act. They were off by 24 million people. Moreover, it appears that millions have lost their insurance


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/o...t_tnt_20160415&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

An interesting perspective/analysis of The Donald.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/o...t_tnt_20160415&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> An interesting perspective/analysis of The Donald.


By Dick Cavett... the unfunny talk show host!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> By Dick Cavett... the unfunny talk show host!


Cavett had dry humor ............. much like William F. Buckley. Loved to watch both of them doing interviews.


----------



## fjnmusic

This just in: the secret place has been discovered where Donald Trump grows his hair.










http://www.boredpanda.com/donald-tr...ebook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=BPFacebook


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/o...c=edit_tnt_20160416&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

Interesting .......... and a bit scary if true.

"In the larger perspective of history, 2016 proves that Roosevelt Democrats and Rockefeller Republicans are gone for good. Clinton Democrats and Trump Republicans are here to stay."


----------



## Dr.G.

Q&A: Anderson Cooper talks U.S. election and Prime Minister Trudeau | The Chronicle Herald

An interesting take on the US election.


----------



## eMacMan

Well these protests finally, if only partially, filtered down to the Lamestream, thanks entirely to Ben & Jerry.

Co-founders of Ben & Jerry's arrested at US Capitol - seattlepi.com


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well. So it wasn't a video, after all...

Clinton busted in new Benghazi lie



> It took a court order for it to finally be released, but critics say the wait was worth it.
> 
> A newly released transcript has provided smoking-gun proof to what critics of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had long suspected — Clinton deliberately lied to the American people about the 2012 Benghazi attacks.
> 
> And there’s no denying it anymore.


And people are still supporting her candidacy? Stunning...


----------



## FeXL

Hanoi Jane still at it...

Jane Fonda warns 'there will be violence' if Hillary Clinton becomes president

If Bill's Wife does get elected & if there is a backlash against her, it will have far less to do with her possessing a vagina & far more to do with her past history...


----------



## eMacMan

If you love the direction Bush and Obushma have taken their nation, Hillary is your gal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Wow!!!!!!!!! Bernie Sanders just got taken down a notch or two by declaring that he pays the least amount of taxes on a percentage basis than any of the candidates .............. :greedy::greedy::greedy: The IRS just got "Berned". 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/income-tax-sanders-clinton-trump-cruz-kasich-181125187.html#


----------



## CubaMark

Interesting developments last night in NYC, with tens of thousands of Democrats being suddenly removed from the voting lists... 

I found this particularly funny:



> _I am a dyslexic Mexican and English is my second language, however even I do not confuse *7/11* with *9/11*.#DonaldTrump
> — Salma Hayek (@salmahayek)
> April 19, 2016​_​


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Interesting developments last night in NYC, with tens of thousands of Democrats being suddenly removed from the voting lists...
> 
> 
> 
> I found this particularly funny:



Hillary claims "we" have won every state so far (even the ones she lost) because she has the promise of superdelegates. All delegates are equal, but some are more equal than others.


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> Hillary claims "we" have won every state so far (even the ones she lost) because she has the promise of superdelegates. All delegates are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Been obvious that this was fixed from the get-go. So it looks like Americans get to choose between Hillary, who is committed to the same path of self-destruction so carefully blazed by Bush and OBushma, or Trump...

Thank God I no longer can cast a ballot but if I could, it would go outside the two party system.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Hillary claims "we" have won every state so far (even the ones she lost) because she has the promise of superdelegates. All delegates are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Bernie is a buffoon, but by any reasonable assessment he should be winning this primary horserace. Hopefully the Democrat Party will be forced to make changes to its rigged system a result of this.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Hillary claims "we" have won every state so far (even the ones she lost) because she has the promise of superdelegates. All delegates are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Sadly, all too true, Frank. I do not like the fact that unelected super delegates might swing the nomination to Clinton. Let her win it fair and square with elected delegates.


----------



## Rps

Only two days count here, one next week and one in early June. For the Dems you might have a winner, but with their proportional method, HRC only gained 30 or so delegates in NY. I'm thinking that the 57vs 43 spread might open some eyes....if you look on the map HRC took NY city, Buffalo, while Bernie took the rest...including Albany. The Superdelegates should do some soul searching on who to support. If you map it out, it certainly looks like Bernie is the winner in most of the Dem voting. It looks like our recent Ontario election....take Toronto and you have the election. If the voters do not change, Bernie may look good in California which is delegate rich. Not sure if HRC can win without California.

As for the GOP, open convention here we come.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Only two days count here, one next week and one in early June. For the Dems you might have a winner, but with their proportional method, HRC only gained 30 or so delegates in NY. I'm thinking that the 57vs 43 spread might open some eyes....if you look on the map HRC took NY city, Buffalo, while Bernie took the rest...including Albany. The Superdelegates should do some soul searching on who to support. If you map it out, it certainly looks like Bernie is the winner in most of the Dem voting. It looks like our recent Ontario election....take Toronto and you have the election. If the voters do not change, Bernie may look good in California which is delegate rich. Not sure if HRC can win without California.
> 
> As for the GOP, open convention here we come.


A valid analysis, Rp. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

This could drive many soft progressives and moderate Democrats away from Clinton. She wisely declined his support. This would have been a game changer for her had she accepted his full support in a welcoming manner. 

But Clinton fired back Sunday on Twitter, saying she wasn't interested in his support.

"Not interested in endorsements from people who deny climate science and try to make it harder for people to vote," she tweeted.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160424&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Charles Koch: 'Possible' Clinton could be better than GOP nominee - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew! That's a good one!



Dr.G. said:


> "Not interested in endorsements from people who deny climate science...


----------



## Dr.G.

"Asleep or awake, working or eating, indoors or out of doors, in the bath or in bed — no escape, 'Big Brother is watching you.'" George Orwell, 1984

"Socialists don't claim to be able to make the world perfect. They claim to be able to make it better." George Orwell, in a December 1943 column for Tribune

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear." George Orwell, preface to Animal Farm


----------



## FeXL

Coupla articles on Barry's success, 7-1/2 years in.

First, on jobs:

No One Works in 1 in 5 U.S. Families



> There were 81,410,000 families in the United States in 2015. Of those, there were 16,060,000 families in which no member was employed, or 19.7 percent of the total.


Woohoo!!! 20% unemployment. Bang up job, Barry!

Next up, Foreign Policy:

Unfortunate hearing President Obama tell the UK that it goes to the "back of the queue" on trade if it votes for independence from the EU

No small irony, the fact that a US President is telling another country not to declare its independence...

More Foreign Policy:

US to buy 32 metric tons of Iranian heavy water to fulfill nuclear deal terms




> “Once again, the Obama administration is handing Iran’s radical regime more cash,” said Republican representative Ed Royce of California, the chairman of the House foreign affairs committee. “US purchase of this sensitive material goes well beyond what is required by the nuclear agreement. Far from curbing its nuclear program, this encourages Iran to produce more heavy water to sell – with a stamp of US approval – on the international market.”


How about Domestic Policy?

Obama: Uncontrolled Migration a “Major National Security Issue”



> In Europe, that is. CNN, covering President Obama’s trip to the U.K., tweeted a little while ago:
> 
> _Obama: "We consider it a major national security issue that you have uncontrolled migration into Europe."​_
> ...
> 
> Millions of Americans have been trying to tell Obama and Congress for some years now that uncontrolled migration into the U.S. is a “major national security issue.” Funny how the same standard doesn’t seem to apply here.


On the Charlie Foxtrot:

Get Ready for Huge Obamacare Premium Hikes in 2017



> The warning to consumers from Tavenner, the former administration official who headed the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) and oversaw the disastrous launch of HealthCare.gov, the Obamacare website, comes at a time of growing uncertainty about the evolving makeup of the Obamacare health insurance market. With many insurers struggling to find profitability in the program, the collapse of nearly half of the 23 Obamacare insurance co-ops and this week’s announcement that giant UnitedHealth Group intends to pull out of most Obamacare markets across the country, anticipating future premiums and copayments is largely risky guesswork.


And, his ego:

Obama Boasts In Britain: I Saved The World Economy As President



> President Barack Obama boasted of his legacy during a town hall in Britain, asserting that he single- handedly saved the world during his presidency.


Beautiful...


----------



## Macfury

Jimmy Carter should thank his lucky stars that someone of the calibre of Barry Obama has relieved him of the "worst president in 100 years" award.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Whew! That's a good one!


That was just a little bit over the top don't you think?

Dr. G. is one one mildest and least aggressive members here. That you should chose him to be so disrespectful to I find personally insulting as I respect the man. You went way above and beyond what was called for and I think you owe him an apology.

Dr. G. deserves more respect IMO. You are free to disagree all you want but where has Dr. G. ever posted anything to you that deserved that level of disrespect you just posted?


----------



## FeXL

While I appreciate your defence of Dr.G., got nothing to do with what Dr.G. said.

Had everything to do with what Shrillary said. That's why I specifically quoted it.


----------



## FeXL

What a remarkable coincidence...

State Department Office Removed Benghazi Files After Congressional Subpoena



> *State Department officials removed files from the secretary’s office related to the Benghazi attack in Libya and transferred them to another department after receiving a congressional subpoena last spring, delaying the release of the records to Congress for over a year.
> *
> Attorneys for the State Department said the electronic folders, which contain hundreds of documents related to the Benghazi attack and Libya, were belatedly rediscovered at the end of last year.
> 
> They said the files had been overlooked by State Department officials because the executive secretary’s office transferred them to another department and flagged them for archiving last April, shortly after receiving a subpoena from the House Select Committee on Benghazi.


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> That was just a little bit over the top don't you think?
> 
> Dr. G. is one one mildest and least aggressive members here. That you should chose him to be so disrespectful to I find personally insulting as I respect the man. You went way above and beyond what was called for and I think you owe him an apology.
> 
> Dr. G. deserves more respect IMO. You are free to disagree all you want but where has Dr. G. ever posted anything to you that deserved that level of disrespect you just posted?


Merci, mon ami. I too respect your views and personal honesty re your opinions, views, as well as your comments about your current life situation. 

No apology is necessary from FeXL. He was commenting upon my post re Clinton's refusal of a Koch brother suggestion of support. I did not take it personally.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Vandave

screature said:


> That was just a little bit over the top don't you think?
> 
> Dr. G. is one one mildest and least aggressive members here. That you should chose him to be so disrespectful to I find personally insulting as I respect the man. You went way above and beyond what was called for and I think you owe him an apology.
> 
> Dr. G. deserves more respect IMO. You are free to disagree all you want but where has Dr. G. ever posted anything to you that deserved that level of disrespect you just posted?


Typically lefty. Can't pass up an opportunity to demand that somebody apologize to somebody else without even knowing how that person felt. 

The left are the new religious / moral zealots and you're part of the congregation brother.


----------



## Dr.G.

Vandave said:


> Typically lefty. Can't pass up an opportunity to demand that somebody apologize to somebody else without even knowing how that person felt.
> 
> The left are the new religious / moral zealots and you're part of the congregation brother.


Vandave, I did not see this as a right vs left dispute. Steve came out with a view, which I appreciated and respected, but did not feel was necessary. So, let's just let this posting go by the wayside and focus upon the relevant issues facing the US. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> While I appreciate your defence of Dr.G., got nothing to do with what Dr.G. said.
> 
> Had everything to do with what Shrillary said. That's why I specifically quoted it.





Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. I too respect your views and personal honesty re your opinions, views, as well as your comments about your current life situation.
> 
> No apology is necessary from FeXL. He was commenting upon my post re Clinton's refusal of a Koch brother suggestion of support. I did not take it personally.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Ok. My apologies to you both, I misunderstood.

Mea culpa.

Peace.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Ok. My apologies to you both, I misunderstood.
> 
> Mea culpa.
> 
> Peace.


No need to apologize, Steve. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

Vandave said:


> Typically lefty. Can't pass up an opportunity to demand that somebody apologize to somebody else without even knowing how that person felt.
> 
> The left are the new religious / moral zealots and you're part of the congregation brother.





Dr.G. said:


> Vandave, I did not see this as a right vs left dispute. Steve came out with a view, which I appreciated and respected, but did not feel was necessary. So, let's just let this posting go by the wayside and focus upon the relevant issues facing the US. Paix, mon ami.


Vandave, I certainly am no typical lefty, if you have read my posts in the past you would know that. I simply misunderstood.


----------



## screature

Vandave said:


> Typically lefty. Can't pass up an opportunity to demand that somebody apologize to somebody else without even knowing how that person felt.
> 
> The left are the new religious / moral zealots and you're part of the congregation brother.





Dr.G. said:


> Vandave, I did not see this as a right vs left dispute. Steve came out with a view, which I appreciated and respected, *but did not feel was necessary*. So, let's just let this posting go by the wayside and focus upon the relevant issues facing the US. Paix, mon ami.


Thank you Dr. G. It was not, I was mistaken and thank you for your other words.


----------



## Vandave

Dr.G. said:


> Vandave, I did not see this as a right vs left dispute. Steve came out with a view, which I appreciated and respected, but did not feel was necessary. So, let's just let this posting go by the wayside and focus upon the relevant issues facing the US. Paix, mon ami.


I forgot he's not a lefty, but let's face it, that's a lefty move nowadays. 

It's a pet peeve of mine when I hear people getting offended on somebody else's behalf, hence my quick reaction without thinking who was doing the posting. I find that most offence nowadays is usually fake outrage. People do for an ego boost. It makes them feel like they have some level of morally superiority over somebody else.

I'm pretty much not offended by anything because it's usually just words. Actions are essentially the only thing that will offend me. Sticks and stones... I think we'd be in a better place if people saved outrage for real things.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Thank you Dr. G. It was not, I was mistaken and thank you for your other words.


No problem, mon ami. We may not agree on certain things in the various threads here in ehMacLand, but I have always respected the way you presented your positions on the various issues. Paix.


----------



## FeXL

Don't screw up a woman's garden...

Queen: You Can Bring Only 3 Choppers, Obama



> Her majesty insisted President Obama bring no more than three choppers to her 90th birthday celebration.
> 
> *After his entourage of twelve helicopters ruined the grass in Queen Elizabeth’s Windsor Castle gardens during a 2011 visit, the Obama administration’s attempts to bring an extensive security detail were no match for the Queen’s insistence.*
> 
> The Queen called President Obama’s entourage “over the top,” and refused to yield in her scaled back security demands.


M'bold. 12? 

Good for her! I hope she makes him sit at the kiddies table, too...


----------



## FeXL

The stunning number for me is that there are 44% of Americans who view her _favourably_...

White Lies Matter



> How bad is Hillary Clinton’s image? This bad:
> 
> Fifty-six percent of Americans view her unfavorably, according to the Huffington Post pollster trend.
> 
> One-third of New York Democratic primary voters say she is neither honest nor trustworthy.
> 
> Her image, writes Dan Balz, “is at or near record lows among major demographic groups.”
> 
> Like, all of them.


More:



> *Since 1998 Clinton has blamed her poor reputation on the vast right-wing conspiracy.* Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, the health-care disaster — it was all the fault of the Republicans. What’s forgotten is that Clinton has been lying in the service of her ambitions — most notably by protecting her husband from the truth of his infidelities — since long before Bill ran for president. Nor can she blame conservatives for her failure to win the Democratic nomination eight years ago. Hillary can’t help being secretive and deceptive. It’s her nature.


M'bold.

Ah, yes. Denial. Not just a river in Egypt anymore...


----------



## Dr.G.

It is starting to look more like a Clinton - Trump race for the presidency. That should be a great campaign and debate. Hopefully, if Clinton does not alienate the progressive/liberal left of the Democratic party, and the independents, she will win comes Nov. We shall see.


----------



## SINC

I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling in my gut that Americans are so fed up with the system and the status quo, and add to that many will reject a female as president outright, that they will likely elect Trump for a single term. I could be wrong, but all the signs are there.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling in my gut that Americans are so fed up with the system and the status quo, and add to that many will reject a female as president outright, that they will likely elect Trump for a single term. I could be wrong, but all the signs are there.


Well, I respect your opinion, but let us hope that you are VERY wrong with this speculation. Trump would be a disaster for the US and the world. I know that I am going to open up the floodgates now about how FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton and Obama were disasters (in the opinion of some, NOT me), but Trump is so unpredictable that no one can know what he will do in any given situation. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling in my gut that Americans are so fed up with the system and the status quo, and add to that many will reject a female as president outright, that they will likely elect Trump for a single term. I could be wrong, but all the signs are there.


"I think the only card she has is the women's card," Trump said a short while later in New York. "She has got nothing else going. Frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get 5% of the vote. And the beautiful thing is, women don't like her."

"The other day, Mr. Trump accused me, of playing the, quote, 'woman card,' " Clinton said. "Well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in."

Clinton, Trump wage war over women - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## eMacMan

Well it seems only 59% of Americans hate Trump, whereas 64% hate Hillary. 

Have not seen anything from either candidate that impresses me. Pretty sure you and I would spend considerable time in jail for committing just some the Hillary antics.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Well it seems only 59% of Americans hate Trump, whereas 64% hate Hillary.
> 
> Have not seen anything from either candidate that impresses me. Pretty sure you and I would spend considerable time in jail for committing just some the Hillary antics.


General Petraeus was more harshly punished for doing far less.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "The other day, Mr. Trump accused me, of playing the, quote, 'woman card,' " Clinton said. "Well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in."


Hilarious. Hillary and her allies have been in power for eight years--and suddenly these women's issues are tragedy that requires immediate attention. Women should ask why the Democrat party didn't deal with these issues already if they are so important.

As it is, Obamacare has made health care unaffordable for millions of women.


----------



## Macfury

Venezuela is feeling the Bern--it just happens that he arrived under the name of Hugo Chavez:

Venezuela Doesn't Have Enough Money to Pay for Its Money - Bloomberg


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> ...Carter...


Don't diss Jimmy! He's had a recent promotion... 



Dr.G. said:


> Trump is so unpredictable that no one can know what he will do in any given situation.


Why does a politician need to be predictable? One would think that an element of unpredictability is a feature, not a bug.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Why does a politician need to be predictable? One would think that an element of unpredictability is a feature, not a bug.


Nobody could have predicted that Obama would have plumbed these depths of pernicious governance.


----------



## FeXL

What could possibly go wrong?

TSA's idea: End screening at some airports



> The TSA's latest effort to make air travel more efficient would have let passengers board flights at some small airports without being screened for threats like guns or explosives.
> 
> But then Congress got wind of the proposal. And now the TSA is backing down after lawmakers denounced the idea as bizarre and even dangerous, especially following terrorist attacks such as the March bombings in Brussels.
> 
> “From a security standpoint, it makes no sense,” said Rep. Greg Walden (R-Ore.), who learned months ago that the TSA had refused to place screeners at a regional airport in his district. *Instead, the agency suggested, it would screen the passengers after they landed at larger airports and before they boarded connecting flights.*


M'bold.

Hey, I'm no fan of the TSA, they're a PITA, they frequently fail security tests. However, as the only front line defence, it's better than nothing.


----------



## FeXL

Hillary Says 50% Of Cabinet Will Be Women. Wants Broad Set Of Experiences



> She says she wants a broad set of experiences. Yes she did.
> 
> And we all know that one woman’s opinion is the same as another’s.


A broad set of "experiences"? Well, then. One would have thought that a person, male or female, with a broad set of _knowledge_ would make a better politician. However, if you have a vagina & "experiences", I guess that's good enough for Bill's Wife.

The good news is, we probably won't have to find out...


----------



## FeXL

I know, I know. Difficult to believe...

State Department Hid Key Clinton Benghazi Email from Judicial Watch



> The Obama State Department last week admitted it withheld a key Benghazi email of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from Judicial Watch since at least September 2014. If the State Department disclosed the email when first supposedly found, Clinton’s email server and her hidden emails would have been disclosed nearly two years ago, before Clinton authorized the alleged deletion of tens of thousands of emails.


One SoS covering for another...


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk (lie?) about NAFTA & Free Trade.

TTIP: UK Report Shows Corporations Have Sued Canadian Govt For Over $2bn, Obama Claims ‘Did Not Happen’



> A report commissioned by the British government reveals that *major U.S. corporates have sued the Canadian government for billions of dollars* under a clause of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Despite this, U.S. President Barack Obama told a press conference in Germany this weekend (above) that “none of these [corporate law suits] had happened with the many trade agreements that currently exist”.


No point starting to tell the truth this late into the campaign...


----------



## FeXL

I have mixed feeling about this. On one hand, they've done their time, blah, blah, blah. On the other, the cynic in me says that this is the most blatant example of vote-grubbing I've ever seen. Even more so than free cell phones...

Clinton Friend Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe Restores Voting Rights for 206,000 Felons — Including Convicted Murderers



> In a move called “unprecedented” by the Richmond-Times Dispatch, Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe signed a sweeping order that grants 206,000 convicted felons voting rights just months before the presidential election.
> 
> McAuliffe’s order extends to non-violent and violent felons, including convicted murderers and rapists, an expert told the New York Times.


Related:

In Virginia, Terry McAuliffe Breaks the Constitution to Plump the Democratic Vote



> In what is likely an unconstitutional state action seemingly calculated to ensure that the purple state of Virginia goes blue in the November election, Governor Terry McAuliffe (D.) signed an order on Friday restoring the voting rights of 206,000 ex-felons in Virginia, including those convicted of murder, armed robbery, rape, sexual assault, and other violent crimes. The order also restores their right to sit on a jury, become a notary, and even serve in elected office.


Also related:

McAuliffe tells Republicans to 'quit complaining' about felons voting



> Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) on Sunday slammed Republicans who have complained about an executive order he signed extending the right to vote in his state to convicted felons who have served their sentences.
> 
> "Well, I would tell the Republicans, '*Quit complaining and go out and earn these folks' right to vote for you. Go out and talk to them,'* " he said in response to a question about people saying his order was an election-year ploy to help Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary ClintonHillary Rodham ClintonSanders' push for Pennsylvania Latinos too little too late Kasich: Media 'too hung up on process' over Cruz alliance Trump: ‘I’d love to see a woman president,’ but not Clinton MORE.


M'bold.

Riiiiight...


----------



## FeXL

Feel the layoffs?  (h/t AoS)

Bernie Sanders to lay off 'hundreds' of campaign workers



> After losing four of five states voting Tuesday, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders acknowledged his campaign is laying off "hundreds" of employees, the starkest signal yet that his candidacy may be nearing its end.


All over but the whining.

Next? Bill's Wife...


----------



## FeXL

Maybe it's because, after seeing Michelle's shining example of a school lunch, they're all smuggling chips & chocolate bars into their backpacks...

Study Shows Michelle O’s Anti-Obesity Campaign Is Failing To Make Kids Any Less Obese



> It’s been more than six years since Michelle Obama kicked off her “Let’s Move!” initiative to fight against childhood obesity, and children are as overweight as ever before.
> 
> That’s according to a new study published Tuesday in the journal Obesity. A team led by Duke University scientist Asheley Skinner studied data from the CDC’s National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) and found that the percentage of overweight and obese children between 2 and 19 years old has increased across the board since 1999.


Curious. Her girls don't look like they've put any weight on. Must be because their school lunches are _slightly_ better than the ones she espouses for the rest of the country...


----------



## CubaMark

*John Boehner: Ted Cruz is "Lucifer in the flesh"*

_When it comes to Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, even a few months’ time out of Congress has done little to lessen former Speaker John Boehner’s contempt for his former Capitol Hill colleague.

“Lucifer in the flesh,” Boehner told an audience at Stanford on Wednesday night, according to the Stanford Daily. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.”_​
(Politico)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *John Boehner: Ted Cruz is "Lucifer in the flesh"*
> 
> _When it comes to Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, even a few months’ time out of Congress has done little to lessen former Speaker John Boehner’s contempt for his former Capitol Hill colleague.
> 
> “Lucifer in the flesh,” Boehner told an audience at Stanford on Wednesday night, according to the Stanford Daily. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.”_​
> (Politico)


Interesting. Cruz responded that Beoner has not said more than 50 words with him, so how could he say that they have "worked together".


----------



## Macfury

Boehner was a dreadful speaker--and his frequent bouts of tears were not exactly inspiring. Whether he damns you or likes you, I would run in the opposite direction.

For many, Boehner's damnation is a recommendation to vote for Cruz.


----------



## Macfury

Great quote from Rush Limbaugh:



> I got a note from Newt Gingrich today, who said, "You know what you ought to do? You need to do daily reports on Venezuela in order to teach people about the failures of socialism." And, my first reaction: Venezuela? If Detroit's not doing the trick, how in the world does anybody expect teaching about Venezuela's gonna do the trick?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Boehner was a dreadful speaker--and his frequent bouts of tears were not exactly inspiring. Whether he damns you or likes you, I would run in the opposite direction.
> 
> For many, Boehner's damnation is a recommendation to vote for Cruz.


On this point, Macfury, we are in agreement. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's foreign policy speech earns praise in Russia - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting show of support for Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

And now for something completely different .............

https://www.facebook.com/Break/videos/10154185038432792/



Sadly, the link does not seem to work in Firefox.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, it has been a year since Bernie Sanders started his campaign for president. So much has happened since then, and while his campaign might soon end, his message shall continue on and on. Excelsior.

The U.S. could feel the Bern for decades as Sanders plans to reform democracy - The Globe and Mail

A Look Back at Bernie Sanders' Campaign One Year Later - ABC News


----------



## Macfury

Sanders should have been the nominee, regardless of how little I agree with his views.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Sanders should have been the nominee, regardless of how little I agree with his views.



On this we agree. He earned it, without the help of Wall Street or super delegates.,


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sanders should have been the nominee, regardless of how little I agree with his views.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

"Welcome to the fight ............ this time I know our side will win."

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> On this we agree. He earned it, without the help of Wall Street or super delegates.,


Sad, but all too true, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

George Takei scolds Bernie supporters who would rather “bust” than vote for Hillary - Salon.com

A good article. "Bernie or Bust" merely gives a Republican candidate the advantage ............. and maybe the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-S8f8ENNU

Funny ..................


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-S8f8ENNU
> 
> 
> 
> Funny ..................



Awesome! And I must say, boy has Rob Reiner ever slimmed down.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-S8f8ENNU
> 
> Funny ..................


Yep, those made me laugh.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yep, those made me laugh.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Awesome! And I must say, boy has Rob Reiner ever slimmed down.


:clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Video: Obama embraces retirement in spoof video - The Globe and Mail

A great spoof. :clap:


----------



## eMacMan

I sometimes wonder if all of the active brain cells of any given city council would fit into a dolls thimble with plenty of room to spare.

Judge temporarily blocks removal of Confederate monument - seattlepi.com

Come-on. The fact that Side B lost, or the cause for which they fought is currently politically taboo, is no reason to dishonor their dead!


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I sometimes wonder if all of the active brain cells of any given city council would fit into a dolls thimble with plenty of room to spare.
> 
> Judge temporarily blocks removal of Confederate monument - seattlepi.com
> 
> Come-on. The fact that Side B lost, or the cause for which they fought is currently politically taboo, is no reason to dishonor their dead!


Agreed.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160503&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

I think that Trump went too far on this one. Listening at the moment on CNN to Cruz coming against this notion about his dad. He called Trump a "pathological liar".


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump is the nominee from hell: The early numbers are in, and they spell disaster for the GOP - Salon.com

Another interesting article.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ted Cruz: Donald Trump 'is a pathological liar' - CNNPolitics.com

It's a bit late to be saying this now.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump is the nominee from hell: The early numbers are in, and they spell disaster for the GOP - Salon.com
> 
> Another interesting article.


Trump 41%, Clinton 39% - Rasmussen Reports™


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump 41%, Clinton 39% - Rasmussen Reports™


Let's hope the undecided swing over to Clinton .................. or, let Bernie Sanders take on Trump. That would be a classic "David and Goliath" match up. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump: Can He Really Win the US Election? - The Passionate Eye

A unique Passionate Eye episode ............... especially since now it looks as if Trump will sweep the Indiana primary.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Let's hope the undecided swing over to Clinton .................. or, let Bernie Sanders take on Trump. That would be a classic "David and Goliath" match up. Paix, mon ami.


No, let us hope that Donald Trump becomes president!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No, let us hope that Donald Trump becomes president!


:----(

God bless America ................God help America if this happens. I thought that you were a Cruz supporter? Even Ron and Rand Paul are saying that they would never vote for Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Cruz can't win the primary. Whoever sweeps the Democrats out of office is my choice.



Dr.G. said:


> :----(
> 
> God bless America ................God help America if this happens. I thought that you were a Cruz supporter? Even Ron and Rand Paul are saying that they would never vote for Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Cruz can't win the primary. Whoever sweeps the Democrats out of office is my choice.


Well, I want Sanders, but will vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia if she wins the nomination. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I want Sanders, but will vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia if she wins the nomination. We shall see.



She will win; it is her manifest destiny, in the same way George W Bush became president despite a narrow loss to Al Gore. However, Trump has the more magnetic personality, so who's to say? Xenophobia didn't work so well for Harper, but the USA is another story. Bernie would also make a great vice-president in my mind.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> She will win; it is her manifest destiny, in the same way George W Bush became president despite a narrow loss to Al Gore. However, Trump has the more magnetic personality, so who's to say? Xenophobia didn't work so well for Harper, but the USA is another story. Bernie would also make a great vice-president in my mind.


Gore lost narrowly to Bush.


----------



## Macfury

Cruz is out.


----------



## SINC

I am not so sure that when comes ballot day, Americans are ready to elect a woman president, especially a Clinton. That will favour Trump.


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> I am not so sure that when comes ballot day, Americans are ready to elect a woman president, especially a Clinton. That will favour Trump.



Sadly, I agree. Sanders I think more people could get behind. In any event, the tide does tend to turn every eight years, so Trump may be inevitable at this point.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> She will win; it is her manifest destiny, in the same way George W Bush became president despite a narrow loss to Al Gore. However, Trump has the more magnetic personality, so who's to say? Xenophobia didn't work so well for Harper, but the USA is another story. Bernie would also make a great vice-president in my mind.


Not sure if Bernie would want to be VP. Still, there is Elizabeth Warren as a possible VP candidate. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Cruz is out.


A suspended campaign. So now he can keep raising money to pay off his campaign debts ................. and pray for a miracle in California.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> I am not so sure that when comes ballot day, Americans are ready to elect a woman president, especially a Clinton. That will favour Trump.


The federal election in the US is the first Tuesday in Nov. And, re America not electing a woman to the office of the presidency, they said the same thing about America not ready to elect a Catholic (JFK put that one to bed), and America not ready to elect an African-American (Obama put that one to bed). While I personally support Sanders, I have no qualms voting for Clinton should she get the nomination.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sadly, I agree. Sanders I think more people could get behind. In any event, the tide does tend to turn every eight years, so Trump may be inevitable at this point.


God bless and help America if that happens. I still believe in the common sense of the majority of the American voters, and Trump will not get to live in the White House. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/o...t_tnt_20160504&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

An interesting article, especially if you tend to be a conservative.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The federal election in the US is the first Tuesday in Nov. And, re America not electing a woman to the office of the presidency, they said the same thing about America not ready to elect a Catholic (JFK put that one to bed), and America not ready to elect an African-American (Obama put that one to bed). While I personally support Sanders, I have no qualms voting for Clinton should she get the nomination.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


America elected a black president (Obama) and he turned out to be one of its worst presidents. I think many American voters have learned a lesson about putting identity politics ahead of competence. Voting for scandal-riddled Hillary Clinton because she is a woman would certainly be another mistake.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> America elected a black president (Obama) and he turned out to be one of its worst presidents. I think many American voters have learned a lesson about putting identity politics ahead of competence. Voting for scandal-riddled Hillary Clinton because she is a woman would certainly be another mistake.


Again, just because you say something does not make it true. So, let's once again agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump: History in the making (Opinion) - CNN.com

Another very interesting article written by someone for whom I respect.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/u...c=edit_tnt_20160504&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

Another interesting article.


----------



## Macfury

Douthat has it wrong. When republicans were handed the House and Senate they did nothing but roll over and play dead, bankrolling and rubber stamping Obama's perverse agenda. Voters are tired of "true conservatives" who don't fight back. In Donald Trump they have a scrapper who may actually achieve some of the goals conservatives support.

True conservatism"


Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/o...t_tnt_20160504&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> An interesting article, especially if you tend to be a conservative.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Douthat has it wrong. When republicans were handed the House and Senate they did nothing but roll over and play dead, bankrolling and rubber stamping Obama's perverse agenda. Voters are tired of "true conservatives" who don't fight back. In Donald Trump they have a scrapper who may actually achieve some of the goals conservatives support.
> 
> True conservatism"


A good analysis of the article, Macfury. Since we disagree on your comment re Pres. Obama's "perverse agenda", I shall let that slide.

All in all, let's hope for a Clinton or Sanders victory comes Nov. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A good analysis of the article, Macfury. Since we disagree on your comment re Pres. Obama's "perverse agenda", I shall let that slide.
> 
> All in all, let's hope for a Clinton or Sanders victory comes Nov. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Just because you wish it Dr. G, does not mean that a Clinton or Sanders victory in November would be a good thing for the country. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Just because you wish it Dr. G, does not mean that a Clinton or Sanders victory in November would be a good thing for the country.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


True ........... just as what you say is not always correct. So, let's agree to disagree and let other fight it out online. That way, we can remain friends. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump is the smartest candidate: He's running on American pain - The Globe and Mail

Another interesting article. Trump is getting a great deal of print press, online press, TV and radio coverage. He might not need to spend much money on ads for campaigning ............... until the attack ads start to flow. I fear those are going to be quite vicious. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

The media did not create Trump and thus withdrawing its support will not destroy him. Trump has built a strong connection with his voters and they will stick by him--attack ads will also not matter. 

Hillary is an incredibly weak candidate. Any attack ads she runs against Trump will cause her own vulnerabilities to be exploited. Sanders could be attacked largely on ideas--Hillary can easily be attacked on both ideas _and_ personal character.




Dr.G. said:


> Trump is the smartest candidate: He's running on American pain - The Globe and Mail
> 
> Another interesting article. Trump is getting a great deal of print press, online press, TV and radio coverage. He might not need to spend much money on ads for campaigning ............... until the attack ads start to flow. I fear those are going to be quite vicious. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The media did not create Trump and thus withdrawing its support will not destroy him. Trump has built a strong connection with his voters and they will stick by him--attack ads will also not matter.
> 
> Hillary is an incredibly weak candidate. Any attack ads she runs against Trump will cause her own vulnerabilities to be exploited. Sanders could be attacked largely on ideas--Hillary can easily be attacked on both ideas _and_ personal character.


I agree with your comment about Trump. The media did not "create" him. He tapped into the fears of many people, and identified, incorrectly, scapegoats. "They are the cause of our problems" is an often used phrase that he honed to a sharp point and kept sticking it into various groups of people. As any demagogue, he played into the lowest common denominator.

As for Clinton, she has a great deal of positive and negative baggage to carry. Her best course is not to go negative and play up what she stands for and how she can lead America to a better tomorrow.


----------



## SINC

‘President Trump?’ Here’s How He Says It Would Look

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/u...urce=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> ‘President Trump?’ Here’s How He Says It Would Look
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/u...urce=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link


Read that article yesterday. What worries me is the comment that “He’s not going to depart from the agenda he’s laid out, not a bit,” said Roger Stone, a longtime adviser and confidant." Walls, exclusions, detention camps, torture .................. scary.


----------



## Dr.G.

Some other interesting NY Times articles :

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/o...t_tnt_20160504&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...-hes-open-to-doing-something-on-minimum-wage/ 

There goes Macfury's vote for Trump


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-endorse-trump/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_headlines

Don't think he will get an endorsement from Jeb either.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why Hillary Clinton isn't pushing Bernie Sanders to exit race - CNNPolitics.com

Very smart on Clinton's part. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

An endorsement from Jeb would be the kiss of death. He should have run on a ticket with Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> An endorsement from Jeb would be the kiss of death. He should have run on a ticket with Hillary Clinton.


:lmao::lmao::clap::lmao:

Don't think that she will take him as VP .............. nor will Sanders if he gets the nomination. 

I think that Trump will select either a man (e.g., Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie or Tom Ridge) or a woman (e.g., Mary Fallin (Gov. of OK) or Joni Ernst (Sen. from Iowa) for his running mate. Ben Carson is a long shot. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed, he needs more of an insider to kick ass for him. If he and Cruz make friends again, he would be good to unite the party. 



Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::lmao::clap::lmao:
> 
> Don't think that she will take him as VP .............. nor will Sanders if he gets the nomination.
> 
> I think that Trump will select either a man (e.g., Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie or Tom Ridge) or a woman (e.g., Mary Fallin (Gov. of OK) or Joni Ernst (Sen. from Iowa) for his running mate. Ben Carson is a long shot. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed, he needs more of an insider to kick ass for him. If he and Cruz make friends again, he would be good to unite the party.


True, but I think that Cruz would rather go back to the Senate and wait it out. He is young enough to run again in 4, 8, 12 even 16 years from now. I do not support his policies, but at least he was honest with them (other than his early support of Trump).


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump is the fuel, but Republican Party will burn itself down: Neil Macdonald - World - CBC News

An interesting Canadian perspective on this election.


----------



## Dr.G.

In case of Trump nomination - break glass: George F. Will | PennLive.com

I know some of you out there in ehMacLand do not like George Will's brand of conservatism, but it is an interesting article nonetheless.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> In case of Trump nomination - break glass: George F. Will | PennLive.com
> 
> I know some of you out there in ehMacLand do not like George Will's brand of conservatism, but it is an interesting article nonetheless.


I lost respect for George after decades of following him, when he held up George Bush as a bastion of conservatism. Although he was a late convert, Will also decried the Reagan nomination.


----------



## Macfury

*Bill O'Reilly to Donald Trump: * "You got any message for Vicente Fox, who's gonna be on the show later?"

*Trump: *Yeah: Get your money ready 'cause you're gonna pay for the wall."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> *Bill O'Reilly to Donald Trump: * "You got any message for Vicente Fox, who's gonna be on the show later?"
> 
> *Trump: *Yeah: Get your money ready 'cause you're gonna pay for the wall."


:greedy:XX):lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

Very interesting. Wonder what will get him "there" to give his support to Trump?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation
> 
> Very interesting. Wonder what will get him "there" to give his support to Trump?


I would advise one of the losers of the 2012 election to keep his thoughts to himself on this matter. Having passed the Obama spending bill without comment, Ryan has also become something of a puzzle to conservatives who thought he had the stones to stand up to runaway spending. His support is not very meaningful at this point.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would advise one of the losers of the 2012 election to keep his thoughts to himself on this matter. Having passed the Obama spending bill without comment, Ryan has also become something of a puzzle to conservatives who thought he had the stones to stand up to runaway spending. His support is not very meaningful at this point.


An interesting perspective. I never saw him as a credible VP candidate, but he is now the Speaker of the House of Representatives .............. an important position.


----------



## Macfury

Trump might be wise to consider John Bolton as a VP to secure the conservative base if Ted Cruz is simply out of the question.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump might be wise to consider John Bolton as a VP to secure the conservative base if Ted Cruz is simply out of the question.


Cruz has got to be out of the question if he has any self respect for himself, but Bolton is an interesting selection. Good choice, Macfury.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/o...t_tnt_20160506&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

As kids playing in NYC, we used to have "do overs" .......... but you only got to use it once in each game.


----------



## eMacMan

Texans are viewed with a good deal of ridicule in many neighboring states. This might help explain why.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/...nch-with-seldom-used-us-2-bill-184943790.html



> An eighth-grade student in Houston, Texas had a run-in with police after she attempted to buy lunch at school with the seldom-seen US$2 bill.
> Danesiah Neal told _Forbes _that the cafeteria workers at Christa McAuliffe Middle School thought that she was using counterfeit currency when she tried to pay for her chicken nuggets with a $2 bill given to her grandmother, Sharon Kay Joseph.


I actually have about eight of these tucked away for a rainy day.

To be fair I can understand a lunch room worker being unaware of the existence of a $2 bill, but the cop(s) and presumably the principal should certainly have had the wherewithal to figure out that it was probably real. You really can look it up on the internet.

Thankfully Huston did not send out a SWAT team to try, convict and execute the young miscreant. Perhaps they were too busy battering in some Grandmothers door to respond to the call.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Texans are viewed with a good deal of ridicule in many neighboring states. This might help explain why.
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/...nch-with-seldom-used-us-2-bill-184943790.html
> 
> 
> 
> I actually have about eight of these tucked away for a rainy day.
> 
> To be fair I can understand a lunch room worker being unaware of the existence of a $2 bill, but the cop(s) and presumably the principal should certainly have had the wherewithal to figure out that it was probably real. You really can look it up on the internet.
> 
> Thankfully Huston did not send out a SWAT team to try, convict and execute the young miscreant. Perhaps they were too busy battering in some Grandmothers door to respond to the call.


I too have some of these tucked away in mint condition .......... right along with the Canadian one and two dollar bills.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Trump might be wise to consider John Bolton as a VP to secure the conservative base if Ted Cruz is simply out of the question.


Are you mad? John Bolton was a disastrous one-year Ambassador to the UN under Bush, and is an odds-on favourite to lead the world into nuclear conflict if he ever came into a position of power. XX) :yikes:


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Texans are viewed with a good deal of ridicule in many neighboring states. This might help explain why.
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/...nch-with-seldom-used-us-2-bill-184943790.html


I think the perspective taken in this article is important, and relevant:

"..public schools overwhelmingly assume that children's misdeeds represent criminal wrongdoing and should be referred to the police. If little Danesiah had actually been attempting to pass off a fake $2 bill as legal tender, it was the school's job to discipline her, not a matter for the police. And yet law enforcement is routinely brought in to handle the most trivial behavioral disputes in public schools.

Ironically, while K-12 institutions increasingly refer all disciplinary matters to the police, the trend for colleges is the reverse: universities are now encouraged to handle violent sexual crimes themselves, rather than automatically involve the police. These developments could not possibly be any more backward."
(Reason.com)​
*Ah, Texas. Where students are seen as a front-line threat in the war on... what, common sense? Jeebus.*

According to Mohamed, he was not allowed to contact his family during the questioning and he was threatened by the principal with expulsion unless he would sign a written statement.[7] After interrogating him for about an hour and a half, he was taken out of the school in handcuffs and into police custody. Following his arrival at a juvenile detention center, Mohamed was fingerprinted, required to take a mug shot, and further questioned before being released to his parents.
(Wikipedia)​
_*Funny how no white kids are ever treated this way, huh?*_


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Are you mad? John Bolton was a disastrous one-year Ambassador to the UN under Bush, and is an odds-on favourite to lead the world into nuclear conflict if he ever came into a position of power. XX) :yikes:



Bolton for VP! I loved his disdain for the UN.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> I think the perspective taken in this article is important, and relevant:
> "..public schools overwhelmingly assume that children's misdeeds represent criminal wrongdoing and should be referred to the police. If little Danesiah had actually been attempting to pass off a fake $2 bill as legal tender, it was the school's job to discipline her, not a matter for the police. And yet law enforcement is routinely brought in to handle the most trivial behavioral disputes in public schools.
> 
> Ironically, while K-12 institutions increasingly refer all disciplinary matters to the police, the trend for colleges is the reverse: universities are now encouraged to handle violent sexual crimes themselves, rather than automatically involve the police. These developments could not possibly be any more backward."
> (Reason.com)​*Ah, Texas. Where students are seen as a front-line threat in the war on... what, common sense? Jeebus.*
> According to Mohamed, he was not allowed to contact his family during the questioning and he was threatened by the principal with expulsion unless he would sign a written statement.[7] After interrogating him for about an hour and a half, he was taken out of the school in handcuffs and into police custody. Following his arrival at a juvenile detention center, Mohamed was fingerprinted, required to take a mug shot, and further questioned before being released to his parents.
> (Wikipedia)​_*Funny how no white kids are ever treated this way, huh?*_


As I attempted to imply in the original post, even if everyone involved in this mess was too dumb to know the bill was real, they could have looked up on the internet before traumatizing the little girl. Well in any state other than Texas!


----------



## Dr.G.

Clinton Releases a Brutal Anti-Trump Ad | Mother Jones

Interesting ads. The Donald, and his fellow Republicans, make this very revealing.


----------



## Rps

And for you history buffs.... In his yearbook Robert E. Lee was voted most likely to secede....


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> And for you history buffs.... In his yearbook Robert E. Lee was voted most likely to secede....


Good one!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And for you history buffs.... In his yearbook Robert E. Lee was voted most likely to secede....


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Clinton Releases a Brutal Anti-Trump Ad | Mother Jones
> 
> Interesting ads. The Donald, and his fellow Republicans, make this very revealing.


This will have "Progressives" slapping each other on the back in solidarity. It won't move the election meter by a hair.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This will have "Progressives" slapping each other on the back in solidarity. It won't move the election meter by a hair.


I can see a great many undecided voters moving over to Clinton. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

You know, from where I sit, I see many people who do not like either of the leading candidates..Clinton or Trump. So the question is will this be the biggest turnout for a U.S. election or will it be the smallest? I really don't know, and I don't know which one scares me the most.....too many or too few.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You know, from where I sit, I see many people who do not like either of the leading candidates..Clinton or Trump. So the question is will this be the biggest turnout for a U.S. election or will it be the smallest? I really don't know, and I don't know which one scares me the most.....too many or too few.


Personally, I am expecting a huge turnout, with new voters on both sides coming out to cast their votes. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I can see a great many undecided voters moving over to Clinton. We shall see.


The Democrat base would vote for her even if she was indicted.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Democrat base would vote for her even if she was indicted.


She needs the liberal/progressive wing of the party as well, the ones that flocked to Sanders.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> She needs the liberal/progressive wing of the party as well, the ones that flocked to Sanders.


She's cemented in to Wall Street and the irregularities with the Clinton Foundation are difficult to paper over--it will be a toughs ell


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> She's cemented in to Wall Street and the irregularities with the Clinton Foundation are difficult to paper over--it will be a toughs ell


I agree. This was one reason why I am a Sanders supporter. I gagged when she said that she and Bill were broke when they left the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160507&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

An interesting article. I wonder what Barry Goldwater, Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan would say about "The Donald"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160507&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

"But for leading Republicans, the dismay is deeper and darker. They fear their party is on the cusp of an epochal split — a historic cleaving between the familiar form of conservatism forged in the 1960s and popularized in the 1980s and a rekindled, atavistic nationalism, with roots as old as the republic, that has not flared up so intensely since the original America First movement before Pearl Harbor."


----------



## Macfury

I don't think I understand this at all. Republicans have stood moot for eight years of Obamaism, yet suddenly they're horrified that someone is too far to the left for them? Republicans never liked Reagan and treated him as they are treating Trump--now they are "the party of Reagan?"

This is a completely disingenuous reaction having much more to do with having the walls of their club broached by an outsider.




Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160507&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y
> 
> An interesting article. I wonder what Barry Goldwater, Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan would say about "The Donald"?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/u...c=edit_tnt_20160507&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y
> 
> "But for leading Republicans, the dismay is deeper and darker. They fear their party is on the cusp of an epochal split — a historic cleaving between the familiar form of conservatism forged in the 1960s and popularized in the 1980s and a rekindled, atavistic nationalism, with roots as old as the republic, that has not flared up so intensely since the original America First movement before Pearl Harbor."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't think I understand this at all. Republicans have stood moot for eight years of Obamaism, yet suddenly they're horrified that someone is too far to the left for them? Republicans never liked Reagan and treated him as they are treating Trump--now they are "the party of Reagan?"
> 
> This is a completely disingenuous reaction having much more to do with having the walls of their club broached by an outsider.


Macfury, a good analysis of the Republican party. I never understood the sudden swing to the right with Goldwater in 1964, Nixon's "law and order" rhetoric was right for most Republicans (at the time), and Reagan's election was enigmatic, but was also a backlash from the Carter years as president.

As for Trump ............... I do not have a clue as to why he is doing so well with the majority of Republican voters.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why Obama Will Go Down as One of the Greatest Presidents of All Time | GQ

Macfury, you should "love" this article, knowing as I do your feelings about Pres. Obama.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Why Obama Will Go Down as One of the Greatest Presidents of All Time | GQ
> 
> Macfury, you should "love" this article, knowing as I do your feelings about Pres. Obama.


Not at all. Nelson is a Democrat apologist. America has not been so fragmented for decades, yet Obama is a unifier? It would make a great stand-up routine.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not at all. Nelson is a Democrat apologist. America has not been so fragmented for decades, yet Obama is a unifier? It would make a great stand-up routine.


Well, let's just say I believe that Pres. Obama has done more to advance and unify America ........... and Trump has done far more to divide America.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Not at all. Nelson is a Democrat apologist. America has not been so fragmented for decades, yet Obama is a unifier? It would make a great stand-up routine.


I had to check to see if the article wasn't from the Onion.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, let's just say I believe that Pres. Obama has done more to advance and unify America ........... and Trump has done far more to divide America.


Trump is not president--and Obama already has a measurable record:

We're More Divided As A Nation Than Ever, And This Poll On Obama's Legacy Shows It

He has unified some Democrats and no others by kowtowing only to the "progressive" Democrat base.

On race?

Has Obama Widened the Racial Divide? - Rasmussen Reports™

47% of Americans say the country is more divided on race than when Obama took office.


----------



## heavyall

It's pretty obvious that the racial divide, the political divide, and the socio-economic divide is larger in the US now than it was 8 years ago. I find it quite curious that anyone would think it was better now.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> It's pretty obvious that the racial divide, the political divide, and the socio-economic divide is larger in the US now than it was 8 years ago. I find it quite curious that anyone would think it was better now.


By avoiding data and hard evidence, you can dream big.


----------



## eMacMan

Hmmm it's getting harder every day swallowing the bit that there is nothing damning in Hitlery eMails. Why else delay releasing them until after the election???


----------



## SINC

The real Donald Trump . . .


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> The real Donald Trump . . .


----------



## Dr.G.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:



fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


A grand idea. :clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Computer-aided drawing has been the death of illustration.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Computer-aided drawing has been the death of illustration.


Once again, we agree. This is getting to be a habit. Have you heard Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party comment that there is no need for a third party to run against Trump since the US Libertarian Party offers this alternative? I would tend to agree with him on this point.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Have you heard Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party comment that there is no need for a third party to run against Trump since the US Libertarian Party offers this alternative? I would tend to agree with him on this point.


Yes, I agree. The "third-party" racketeers are more interested in feathering their nests as political appointees and consultants than they are forming a government. Their opposition to Trump is more like Thurston Howell III calling out: "Good heavens, a Yale man..." than any philosophical purity.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, I agree. The "third-party" racketeers are more interested in feathering their nests as political appointees and consultants than they are forming a government. Their opposition to Trump is more like Thurston Howell III calling out: "Good heavens, a Yale man..." than any philosophical purity.


Good one, mon ami. As well, the Libertarian Party is an established party that has run serious candidates in the past. If I was a conservative and wanted to go with an Anti-Trump alternative, the Libertarian Party would be my choice. If I was totally opposed to Clinton should she win the nomination, and I could not have a chance to vote for Sanders, I would vote for the Green Party candidate.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...c=edit_tnt_20160509&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y


Wonder is Chris Christie will pull a Dick Cheney and suggest that he be the VP candidate on the ticket????? We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...c=edit_tnt_20160509&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y
> 
> 
> Wonder is Chris Christie will pull a Dick Cheney and suggest that he be the VP candidate on the ticket????? We shall see.


I get the sense that "transition team" is his reward for early support--and possibly a role as attorney general.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I get the sense that "transition team" is his reward for early support--and possibly a role as attorney general.


You might be so, Macfury. He would be a better AG than VP.


----------



## Dr.G.

Love at first flight.

Maple Match links Canadians looking for love with single Americans fleeing Trump - Calgary - CBC News


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Love at first flight.
> 
> Maple Match links Canadians looking for love with single Americans fleeing Trump - Calgary - CBC News


Makes it easier for me to find a hot date with a Trump supporter when I cross the border.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Makes it easier for me to find a hot date with a Trump supporter when I cross the border.


:lmao::clap::lmao: Bon voyage, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

The Democrat establishment was shocked today by poll results showing Trump catching up and surpassing Hillary in some battleground states!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Democrat establishment was shocked today by poll results showing Trump catching up and surpassing Hillary in some battleground states!


Yes, and what is amazing that there are some major polls that are showing Sanders is pulling away from Trump far more than Clinton. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, and what is amazing that there are some major polls that are showing Sanders is pulling away from Trump far more than Clinton. We shall see.


Sanders should have been the nominee--but Obama and the DNC will have their way.


----------



## FeXL

A solution to the Charlie Foxtrot?

Doctors call for single-payer healthcare to improve on Obamacare



> More than 2,000 doctors are calling for the establishment of a single-payer health insurance system, signing on to a plan they say would take healthcare non-profit and allow care to be available for everybody who needs it.


More:



> The PNHP says in its proposal the healthcare system continues to waste huge amounts of money and block out people who need care based on cost, and that the only solution is a move to single-payer.
> 
> "*We can no longer afford to waste the vast resources we do on the administrative costs, executive salaries and profiteering of the private insurance system*," Dr. Marcia Angell, a professor of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School and one of the authors of the proposal, said in a press release. "We get too little for our money. It's time to put those resources into real health care for everyone."


M'bold.

Interesting observation...


----------



## Macfury

You can be like Ontario and spend almost half your tax dollars on health care. No dirty profits--just exorbitant government salaries and waste.



FeXL said:


> A solution to the Charlie Foxtrot?
> 
> Doctors call for single-payer healthcare to improve on Obamacare
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Interesting observation...


----------



## FeXL

Oh, if this is true, it's delicious...

The Kremlin is debating on when it should release over 20,000 emails they got off @HillaryClinton server. Vlad is going to bring her down

Some interesting speculation online...
1) Release them prior to the election & put the final nail in her political coffin.
2) See if she gets elected, then use them as blackmail to control her.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That's weak, Mark. You were putting up funnier ones for awhile.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Falls a bit short of "Ask not what America can do for you, but ask what you can do for America." :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Falls a bit short of "Ask not what America can do for you, but ask what you can do for America." :lmao:


The current crop of crooks have changed but a single word: "Ask not what America can do for you, but ask what you can do to America."


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The current crop of crooks have changed but a single word: "Ask not what America can do for you, but ask what you can do to America."


Under the current regime, America's number one export is... jobs!


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...-recent-history-by-not-releasing-tax-returns/

Not a smart move on Trump's part.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/12/u...c=edit_tnt_20160511&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

Another interesting perspective.


----------



## Macfury

I think he's waiting to see the books on the Clinton Foundation. These would prove, once and for all, that Hillary did not sell political favours in exchange for exorbitant speaking fees collected by Bill Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think he's waiting to see the books on the Clinton Foundation. These would prove, once and for all, that Hillary did not sell political favours in exchange for exorbitant speaking fees collected by Bill Clinton.


Well, she had better do this to clear the air on that issue. Then the heat would be on Trump. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Well, she had better do this to clear the air on that issue.


That would be the first of a veritable plethora of issues that need explaining...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> That would be the first of a veritable plethora of issues that need explaining...


Well, Bernie Sanders has tried his best to flush her info out.


----------



## Dr.G.

With Donald Trump as nominee, delegate spots lose appeal - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting. I wondered to myself if this was going to happen for some delegates.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Bernie Sanders has tried his best to flush her info out.


I see Trump as somewhat more capable in that department.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I see Trump as somewhat more capable in that department.


FeXL ................... Feel the Bern.  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Bernie Sanders is by far the best candidate for the job of president of the USA, but history shows that the best candidate doesn't always get the job. Sad to say, but I think Trump is more electable than Clinton, and he is absolutely unqualified for the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Bernie Sanders is the worst of the candidates for the job, but the most deserving of the Dem nomination. 



fjnmusic said:


> Bernie Sanders is by far the best candidate for the job of president of the USA, but history shows that the best candidate doesn't always get the job. Sad to say, but I think Trump is more electable than Clinton, and he is absolutely unqualified for the job.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

You say coke I say caine
You say John I say Wayne
Hot dog I say cool it man
I don't wanna be the President of America

You say smile I say cheese
Cartier I say please
Income tax I say Jesus
I don't wanna be a candidate
For Vietnam or Watergate
'Cause all I want to do is

Bicycle bicycle bicycle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> You say coke I say caine
> You say John I say Wayne
> Hot dog I say cool it man
> I don't wanna be the President of America
> 
> You say smile I say cheese
> Cartier I say please
> Income tax I say Jesus
> I don't wanna be a candidate
> For Vietnam or Watergate
> 'Cause all I want to do is
> 
> Bicycle bicycle bicycle
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You say tomato I say tomato.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump rejects Mitt Romney's ironic tax attack - CNNPolitics.com

This could get interesting.


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> You say tomato I say tomato.


Since you raise the group's name Marc I thought I shall provide Tomato/Tomato or at least a video of Grand Bay NB's entertainers Tomato/Tomato

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuDE4NZ6QQ[/ame]


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> You say tomato I say tomato.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


>


Potato ......... potato??????????? 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg-zT3DZN40[/ame]


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Potato ......... potato???????????
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg-zT3DZN40[/ame]




Oui, Monsieur! 

https://youtu.be/8K31kcjCUC4


----------



## Macfury

Yes, but what is important is that you simply don't get to say it in isolation. I defend your right to say Tomayto, but Tomahto will follow soon afterward like the fresh spring rain washing away winter's debris.



fjnmusic said:


> You say coke I say caine
> You say John I say Wayne
> Hot dog I say cool it man
> I don't wanna be the President of America
> 
> You say smile I say cheese
> Cartier I say please
> Income tax I say Jesus
> I don't wanna be a candidate
> For Vietnam or Watergate
> 'Cause all I want to do is
> 
> Bicycle bicycle bicycle
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Exactly what qualifies one for the job of POTUS? How about a short list?



fjnmusic said:


> Sad to say, but I think Trump is more electable than Clinton, and he is absolutely unqualified for the job.


----------



## FeXL

She's not the only one...

Clinton Dumbfounded by Rising Cost of Obamacare



> Hillary Clinton was stunned Monday when a small business owner told her that the cost of her health insurance had increased nearly two fold.
> 
> "A $400 increase, assuming you didn't have some terrible healthcare event, which it doesn't sound like you did," Clinton said at a campaign event in Virginia. "I don't understand."


Curious, that...

Related to the Charlie Foxtrot:

Government Helping You - ObamaCare



> The first two states have proposed their premium INCREASES for 2017, Virginia and Oregon. The rest have to propose their increases [until] the week before the 2016 election.
> 
> Virginia:
> - Anthem +15.8% increase
> - BC/BS + 29.6%
> 
> Oregon:
> - Kaiser +14.5%
> - OR Health Exchange +29.6%
> - Moda +32.3%


He sums:



> Bear this in mind, especially if you're "ready" for Hillary:
> - You will get even MORE government helping you.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Exactly what qualifies one for the job of POTUS? How about a short list?



I'd say some experience in at least one level of government for starters. Bernie Sanders has this in spades; Donald Trump does not. Hillary does as well, but she lacks the charisma needed.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I'd say some experience in at least one level of government for starters. Bernie Sanders has this in spades; Donald Trump does not. Hillary does as well, but she lacks the charisma needed.


They've been trying that "government experience" thing for awhile and all it's done is to get them candidates who are part of the establishment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren 'discussed' bid last year - CNNPolitics.com

This would have made for an interesting ticket. :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Why?



fjnmusic said:


> I'd say some experience in at least one level of government for starters.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren 'discussed' bid last year - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This would have made for an interesting ticket. :clap:


It would combine some of the worst proclivities of the Democrat party!


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Why?



For the same reason I'd expect my mechanic to have worked on engines before.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> For the same reason I'd expect my mechanic to have worked on engines before.


So you would have voted for Stephen Harper over Justin Trudeau?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> So you would have voted for Stephen Harper over Justin Trudeau?



The mailroom boy? Not likely. St least I know that as a teacher, Trudeau had experience working with PEOPLE before he entered politics.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> The mailroom boy? Not likely. St least I know that as a teacher, Trudeau had experience working with PEOPLE before he entered politics.


Big backtrack, fjn. Now it's "experience with people" that's paramount.

Well, Donald Trump has plenty of experience with people!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It would combine some of the worst proclivities of the Democrat party!


Well, I like both of them and would have voted for this ticket. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Big backtrack, fjn. Now it's "experience with people" that's paramount.
> 
> Well, Donald Trump has plenty of experience with people!


"You're fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> "You're fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"



Exactly. Experience being an a-hole as opposed to being a mentor is not exactIy a helpful attribute for the next POTUS.


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. Experience being an a-hole as opposed to being a mentor is not exactIy a helpful attribute for the next POTUS.


Yep, same issue we have with JT here.


----------



## FeXL

Can you give me a couple of examples of things that you could only learn by being educated as a politician, as opposed to anywhere else?

I guess what I'm getting at here is exactly what kind of exclusivity that politicians have that nobody else does or couldn't get elsewhere. Frankly, I see nothing. It's a job, like anything else. Any educated (not necessarily formally), hard-working, intelligent individual should be able to handle the job. Also quite frankly, if being a politician is what it takes to be a politician, then most of the bastards are failing miserably & we should exclude politicians from being politicians, period.



fjnmusic said:


> For the same reason I'd expect my mechanic to have worked on engines before.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160513&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Not a smart move on the part of Trump. This could backfire upon him just like it did with Mitt Romney when it was discovered that his tax rate was much lower than the majority of Americans who paid taxes. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...t_tnt_20160513&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> Not a smart move on the part of Trump. This could backfire upon him just like it did with Mitt Romney when it was discovered that his tax rate was much lower than the majority of Americans who paid taxes. We shall see.


It backfired for Romney because people were essentially too ill educated to understand that his rates were roughly the same as everyone else's--about 30%.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. Experience being an a-hole as opposed to being a mentor is not exactIy a helpful attribute for the next POTUS.


Admit it. You're just trying to come up with a list that includes Trudeau but excludes Trump... after the fact.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It backfired for Romney because people were essentially too ill educated to understand that his rates were roughly the same as everyone else's--about 30%.


His rate was 13.75% ....................... tptptptp


----------



## FeXL

As a _substitute_ drama teacher, he had experience _acting_...



fjnmusic said:


> [A]t least I know that as a teacher, Trudeau had experience working with PEOPLE before he entered politics.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Bill's Wife & Benghazi s'more!

Report: Air Force could have reached Benghazi before attack ended (Update)



> The source claims he was part of an air squadron at Aviano Airbase in Italy that night when they were told there was a situation. He claims planes were readied and were being armed with weapons. *“I definitely believe that our aircraft could have taken off and got there in a timely manner, maybe three hours at the most,”* the source claims.


M'bold.

More:



> A second source, described as Mike, says he was at Delta Force headquarters when the attacks took place but returned to Libya soon afterwards. *Mike says there were opportunities to kill or capture the people responsible for the attack but they were denied by the State Department.* “It was political,” Mike says, adding “I read the emails, I read the emails where they were saying, hey, we can’t do this now…now’s not the right time.”


M'bold.

Bill's Wife? Involved in another cover up? Ya don't say...


----------



## FeXL

Good news on the Charlie Foxtrot front.

Breaking: House GOP wins case against ObamaCare insurer subsidy funding



> The irrational funding structure of ObamaCare has long been demonstrated. According to a federal judge, at least part of it is also unconstitutional. The Obama administration lost in court this afternoon when the judge ruled in favor of the House of Representatives in a lawsuit challenging the funding of subsidies for insurers in the exchanges — potentially stopping $175 billion in subsidies:


Yesss!!!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> His rate was 13.75% ....................... tptptptp


Sure, after he paid the corporate taxes on his earnings first. Also his final percentage tally was lower because of his extremely high level of charitable donations. When you filter out the charitable and add the corporate, he's at 30%.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Bill's Wife again!

Persian Gulf Sheikhs Gave Bill & Hillary $100 Million



> A Daily Caller News Foundation investigation reveals that Bill and Hillary Clinton received at least $100 million from autocratic Persian Gulf states and their leaders, potentially undermining Democratic presidential candidate Hillary’s claim she can carry out independent Middle East policies.
> 
> As a presidential candidate, the amount of foreign cash the Clintons have amassed from the Persian Gulf states is “simply unprecedented,” says national security analyst Patrick Poole.
> 
> “These regimes are buying access. You’ve got the Saudis. You’ve got the Kuwaitis, Oman, Qatar and the UAE. *There are massive conflicts of interest. It’s beyond comprehension*,” Poole told TheDCNF in an interview.


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sure, after he paid the corporate taxes on his earnings first. Also his final percentage tally was lower because of his extremely high level of charitable donations. When you filter out the charitable and add the corporate, he's at 30%.


Nope. Romney paid 14% effective tax rate in 2011 - Sep. 21, 2012


----------



## Macfury

This is why it's a losing game to release one's taxes. Too complicated for people to understand in a sound bite:

Forbes Welcome


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cabef46e0_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_evening

Hey, if you can't say something nice about yourself, don't say anything.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cabef46e0_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_evening
> 
> Hey, if you can't say something nice about yourself, don't say anything.


That's just eccentric and amusing!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's just eccentric and amusing!


:lmao::clap::lmao:

Mais oui, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's just eccentric and amusing!


Trump amusing .............. yes ................... but eccentric???????????????


----------



## CubaMark

I've been quite clear regarding my opinion of Barack Obama's presidency (for the most part, he's been not much better than those who preceded him). Still, this rings very true:


----------



## BigDL

cubamark said:


> i've been quite clear regarding my opinion of barack obama's presidency (for the most part, he's been not much better than those who preceded him). Still, this rings very true:


Like!


----------



## Dr.G.

Yes, it's time to think about the 2020 presidential race - CNNPolitics.com

Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about getting an early jump on the next election cycle.XX)


----------



## BigDL

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, it's time to think about the 2020 presidential race - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about getting an early jump on the next election cycle.XX)


Seems it's OZ effect, "don't look behind the curtain."

or The WIZ effect ..."just ease on down, ease on down, ease on down the road."


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I've been quite clear regarding my opinion of Barack Obama's presidency (for the most part, he's been not much better than those who preceded him). Still, this rings very true:


That's complete nonsense and a false narrative. Obama's "intelligence" has been muted by his unmitigated disregard for what half (or more) of the population want their government to do. Those decisions have resulted in a hobbled economy, slow growth, growing geopolitical instability, and a culture of racial divisiveness,


----------



## eMacMan

Barrack has faithfully stayed the course. Sadly the course was set by idiots.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump is apparently considering Sarah Palin for VP — and it’s even scarier than you think - Salon.com

According to Ben Carson, Palin is on a short list of names Trump is considering for running mate.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump is apparently considering Sarah Palin for VP â€” and it’s even scarier than you think - Salon.com
> 
> According to Ben Carson, Palin is on a short list of names Trump is considering for running mate.


Carson left the VP team long ago.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting...

Women could be forced to sign up to US military draft by 2018



> Women might be forced to sign up with the US military draft by 1 January 2018 if government approves a new proposal from the armed services committee, moving one step closer to ensuring both genders would be subject to serve during war.
> 
> “Because the Department of Defense has lifted the ban on women serving in ground combat units, the committee believes there is no further justification in limiting the duty to register under the Military Selective Service Act to men,” the bill summary read.


----------



## Macfury

Equal opportunity cannon fodder...



FeXL said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Women could be forced to sign up to US military draft by 2018


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Carson left the VP team long ago.


Not according to Trump. So, I have to listen to him as to who is on his team.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not according to Trump. So, I have to listen to him as to who is on his team.


Ben Carson Is Off Trump's VP Vetting Team - The Daily Beast


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ben Carson Is Off Trump's VP Vetting Team - The Daily Beast


The link does not seem to work, Macfury. It leads nowhere.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ben Carson Is Off Trump's VP Vetting Team - The Daily Beast


https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...c-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html?tid=sm_fb

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ben-carson-spilled-beans-donald-141515555.html


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...c-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html?tid=sm_fb
> 
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ben-carson-spilled-beans-donald-141515555.html


Odd--the link works for me:



> JACK OF ALL TRADES? *
> 05.10.16* 2:30 PM ET
> *Ben Carson Is Off Trump’s VP Vetting Team*
> After selecting a list of names for the team to vet, Ben Carson has stepped away from the vice presidential selection team.
> 
> Ben Carson is becoming the jack of all trades for Donald Trump’s campaign.
> 
> After being tapped to join a vice presidential selection committee last week, Carson has stepped away to focus on other things, according to his business manager, Armstrong Williams.


----------



## SINC

Link works fine at my end too.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ben Carson Is Off Trump's VP Vetting Team - The Daily Beast


It works now, but that article was from six days ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

Brace yourselves: Trump is going to win - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It works now, but that article was from six days ago.


Yes, that's how long Carson has been out of the loop.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, that's how long Carson has been out of the loop.


But articles from the past day or so have him in the loop. 

Personally, I hope you are right that he is OUT of the loop. I recall when Dick Cheney was in charge of the VP vetting and he selected himself. XX)


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Brace yourselves: Trump is going to win - The Globe and Mail



Perhaps the guy on a buffalo could give him a hand. 

https://youtu.be/iJ4T9CQA0UM


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps the guy on a buffalo could give him a hand.
> 
> https://youtu.be/iJ4T9CQA0UM


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps the guy on a buffalo could give him a hand.
> 
> https://youtu.be/iJ4T9CQA0UM


I think I'd prefer the Guy on a Buffalo to President Obama--he as a sense of deliberateness about him.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> The link does not seem to work, Macfury. It leads nowhere.





Macfury said:


> Odd--the link works for me:





SINC said:


> Link works fine at my end too.





Dr.G. said:


> It works now, but that article was from six days ago.


Works fine for me as well.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Brace yourselves: Trump is going to win - The Globe and Mail


:lmao:


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> :lmao:


Not sure why the laughing. But watch it happen. The American people want real change. I liken it to Albertans electing the NDP. Forever regretted, but so obviously true.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Not sure why the laughing. But watch it happen. The American people want real change. I liken it to Albertans electing the NDP. Forever regretted, but so obviously true.


Yes, there shall be real buyer's remorse should Trump win. God help America.

Still, a Clinton (or dare I hope for) a Sanders presidency, will be good for America. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, there shall be real buyer's remorse should Trump win. God help America.
> 
> Still, a Clinton (or dare I hope for) a Sanders presidency, will be good for America. We shall see.


They would be good for you, Dr. G.--a stultifying, mediocre nightmare for me.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They would be good for you, Dr. G.--a stultifying, mediocre nightmare for me.


Well, I survived the 80s with Pres. Reagan ........... the "me decade", so this will be my moment in the sun. Maybe I shall once again be able to vote for a presidential candidate that wins the state of Georgia???? The last winner I voted for was Pres. Carter. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...23aac62_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_headlines

This will be interesting if it comes about ........... Power to the People not the Party. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I survived the 80s with Pres. Reagan ........... the "me decade", so this will be my moment in the sun. Maybe I shall once again be able to vote for a presidential candidate that wins the state of Georgia???? The last winner I voted for was Pres. Carter. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


You already had 8 years of "hope and change." Now it's time for a Republican to bring about prosperity and freedom.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You already had 8 years of "hope and change." Now it's time for a Republican to bring about prosperity and freedom.


No, better for a Democrat to being about a continuation of "prosperity and freedom", rather than let a demagogue like Trump trample upon the rights of people. I would think that you of all people would object to Trump's various plans to go after certain groups of people. Stay on the sidelines too long, and he shall be coming for libertarians .............. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You already had 8 years of "hope and change." Now it's time for a Republican to bring about prosperity and freedom.



Donald Trump is not a Republican. He just commandeered the party, which has some GOP members quite confused and upset.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Donald Trump is not a Republican. He just commandeered the party, which has some GOP members quite confused and upset.


Of course Donald Trump is a Republican--but he's not establishment. That's why the elite members are angry.


----------



## Macfury

Obama has already enjoyed eight years of an Imperial Presidency. It's easy to overlook his authoritarianism if you happen to agree with his philosophy. Do you call the last eight years "prosperity"? It's a failure by almost any account and the worst recovery from any recession in history.



Dr.G. said:


> No, better for a Democrat to being about a continuation of "prosperity and freedom", rather than let a demagogue like Trump trample upon the rights of people. I would think that you of all people would object to Trump's various plans to go after certain groups of people. Stay on the sidelines too long, and he shall be coming for libertarians ..............
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## BigDL

Macfury said:


> Of course Donald Trump is a Republican--but he's not establishment. That's why the elite members are angry.


Donald Trump certainly is not a Republican, by his own words he is not a politician, he is a billionaire. His politics "looking out for number one," which might be very attractive politics to a rugged individualist.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPMJ3AueOmk[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

BigDL said:


> Donald Trump certainly is not a Republican, by his own words he is not a politician, he is a billionaire. His politics "looking out for number one," which might be very attractive politics to a rugged individualist.l]


Certainly not a politician by trade--but a Republican, and one more likely to give Republican voters some respect.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama has already enjoyed eight years of an Imperial Presidency. It's easy to overlook his authoritarianism if you happen to agree with his philosophy. Do you call the last eight years "prosperity"? It's a failure by almost any account and the worst recovery from any recession in history.


Well, once again, let's agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Donald Trump is not a Republican. He just commandeered the party, which has some GOP members quite confused and upset.





Macfury said:


> Of course Donald Trump is a Republican--but he's not establishment. That's why the elite members are angry.


In a way, you are both correct.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Certainly not a politician by trade--but a Republican, and one more likely to give Republican voters some respect.


Yes, and this is driving the ruling elite within the Republican party crazy.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Of course Donald Trump is a Republican--but he's not establishment. That's why the elite members are angry.



He's not a Republican, he's an independent running under the Republican banner. He has some ideas in common with the GOP, but mostly he doesn't fit their establishment. In many ways he's the anti-Republican. Or maybe the anti-Christ depending on your point of view.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> He's not a Republican, he's an independent running under the Republican banner. He has some ideas in common with the GOP, but mostly he doesn't fit their establishment. In many ways he's the anti-Republican. Or maybe the anti-Christ depending on your point of view.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/u...t_tnt_20160517&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Well, he is willing to talk with Kim Jong un ............... much like Nixon went to China and talk with Mao.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mitt Romney ends recruiting for independent candidate - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Mitt Romney ends recruiting for independent candidate


It's about time. He's behaving like a gutless wonder--he should have volunteered himself instead of recruiting others for his kamikaze mission.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's about time. He's behaving like a gutless wonder--he should have volunteered himself instead of recruiting others for his kamikaze mission.


We agree here, Macfury. If he wanted someone to run as a 3rd party candidate, he should have stepped forward. Then the two of them could have debated who was richer and who sheltered more income in off-shore accounts.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We agree here, Macfury. If he wanted someone to run as a 3rd party candidate, he should have stepped forward. Then the two of them could have debated who was richer and who sheltered more income in off-shore accounts.


The three of them could have included the way in which the Clintons didn't need to send their money offshore--they were funneling charitable contributions to their friends here at home!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The three of them could have included the way in which the Clintons didn't need to send their money offshore--they were funneling charitable contributions to their friends here at home!


All the more reason to have Sanders in the middle of Trump and Romney in the presidential debates. :clap: Then the people of America could have a choice between a loser (Romney), a loud mouth demagogue (Trump) and a progressive leftist (good old Bernie).


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> All the more reason to have Sanders in the middle of Trump and Romney in the presidential debates. :clap: Then the people of America could have a choice between a loser (Romney), a loud mouth demagogue (Trump) and a progressive leftist (good old Bernie).


You could choose between Republican prosperity, or giving America a good ol' Venezuelan makeover under Sanders... with dignity.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You could choose between Republican prosperity, or giving America a good ol' Venezuelan makeover under Sanders... with dignity.


No, the choice would be between a Fascist Italy and a new New Deal. You know how I feel about FDR, so case closed. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, the choice would be between a Fascist Italy and a new New Deal. You know how I feel about FDR, so case closed. Paix, mon ami.


No, you can't close the case before I say that it was rotten deal that included collusion with croney companies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No, you can't close the case before I say that it was rotten deal that included collusion with croney companies.


Sorry, case closed. You missed the proverbial boat. Live with it and "Feel the Bern". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, case closed. You missed the proverbial boat. Live with it and "Feel the Bern". Paix, mon ami.


Let Venezuala feel the Bern! His policies have been achieved there!


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry, case closed. You missed the proverbial boat. Live with it and "Feel the Bern". Paix, mon ami.



You're wasting your time, Marc. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Bernie would indeed be the best leader of all the candidates on both sides, but sadly the system has been gamed to favor particular people. And Trump is no leader.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> You're wasting your time, Marc. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Bernie would indeed be the best leader of all the candidates on both sides, but sadly the system has been gamed to favor particular people. And Trump is no leader.


Of course you're wasting your time--because you're simply wrong!


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> You're wasting your time, Marc. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Bernie would indeed be the best leader of all the candidates on both sides, but sadly the system has been gamed to favor particular people. And Trump is no leader.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Of course you're wasting your time--because you're simply wrong!


Sorry, case closed. Last tag .................. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Tell us how you really feel!

Cotton: Rhodes Is a ‘Chump,’ Obama’s National Security Team Consists of ‘Yes Men and Fan Boys’



> Sen. Tom Cotton (R., Ark.) ripped President Obama’s national security team as full of “yes men and fan boys” during a radio interview Tuesday, The Hill reports.
> 
> Cotton singled out top White House adviser Ben Rhodes as a “chump” after a New York Times profile in which Rhodes boasted of creating an “echo chamber” to sell the Iran nuclear deal and constructing a false narrative with the help of a clueless press:
> 
> _“Some of the coverage of Ben Rhodes is what happens when you put van drivers and campaign flaks and failed novelists in charge of foreign policy and national security,” he said on Hugh Hewitt’s radio broadcast, referencing Obama’s deputy national security adviser.
> 
> “*You know, most of who’s left in the administration now are all these yes men and fan boys who were van drivers or press flaks for Barack Obama* in Iowa and New Hampshire in 2008,” Cotton added, recalling Obama’s first presidential campaign.
> 
> “*As if any of them have ever seen anything more dangerous than a shoving match when they were playing beer pong in the back of a bar in Georgetown.*”_​


M'bold.

I'm liking this guy!


----------



## FeXL

For a political perspective that promotes freedom, the left has an awful lot of rules.

Obama Has 3,260 Rules In The Regulatory Pipeline



> That’s 2,239 regulations the Obama administration still needs to get through in the next 173 days. Obama’s got even more rules listed in this spring’s regulatory agenda than the 3,260 he had listed last spring. And this year, federal agencies have listed 202 “economically significant” regulations. Five hundred and sixty-five have been completed and another 502 are long-term rules.
> 
> “These rules are projected to have economic effects of at least $100 million annually,” Clyde Wayne Crews Jr., director of policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) and an expert on the regulatory process, wrote in Forbes.
> 
> “Over-regulation is a bipartisan phenomenon, but this annual flow of larger-scale rules has been considerably higher under Obama than it was under President Bush,” Crews wrote. *“This is attributable to the promise to regulate and go around Congress via the ‘pen and phone,’ let alone the ‘regulatory dark matter’ rulemaking happening off the books.”*


M'bold.

Trump 2016!


----------



## FeXL

So, the Grey Lady sent out some reporters a couple weeks back to dig up dirt on Trump is some sort of feeble attempt to discredit his candidacy. They may as well have stayed at home...

Camille Paglia: PC feminists misfire again, as fearful elite media can’t touch Donald Trump



> The drums had been beating for weeks about a major New York Times expose in the works that would demolish Trump once and for all by revealing his sordid lifetime of misogyny. When it finally appeared as a splashy front-page story this past Sunday (originally titled “Crossing the Line: Trump’s Private Conduct with Women”), I was off in the woods pursuing my Native American research. On Monday, after seeing countless exultant references to this virtuoso takedown, I finally read the article—and laughed out loud throughout. Can there be any finer demonstration of the insularity and mediocrity of today’s Manhattan prestige media? *Wow, millionaire workaholic Donald Trump chased young, beautiful, willing women and liked to boast about it. Jail him now!* Meanwhile, the New York Times remains mute about Bill Clinton’s long record of crude groping and grosser assaults—not one example of which could be found to taint Trump.


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, Trump will just reverse those exec orders. Won't even need a phone or a pen--he'll just tear them up on day one!



FeXL said:


> For a political perspective that promotes freedom, the left has an awful lot of rules.
> 
> Obama Has 3,260 Rules In The Regulatory Pipeline
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Trump 2016!


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/u...t_tnt_20160517&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> Well, he is willing to talk with Kim Jong un ............... much like Nixon went to China and talk with Mao.


But so did Dennis Rodman!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> But so did Dennis Rodman!


:lmao: That was a birthday invite.


----------



## Dr.G.

There is a new Bernie Sanders ad coming out and it has a great slogan --

"Ban pre-shredded cheese and let's make America grate again."


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, I've stopped bothering to Google these fringe commentators. Always a disappointment.


----------



## FeXL

There's a surprise...

The Iran Deal Wasn’t About Nukes At All



> The White House and its supporters were set on two goals, one of them trivial, the other terrifying. The trivial objective was to give a failed presidency at least one foreign policy legacy item. That was to be expected, since *the Obama administration, in permanent campaign mode since the day the president took office, has presided over the worst American foreign policy in the modern era.*
> 
> The more stomach-churning objective is that the administration, as it turned out, really believed in its pledges to get America out of the Middle East, and decided early on that the only way to do this was to *replace the United States in the region with a duumvirate of Russia and Iran.* Here, the JCPOA was part of a huge gamble to transform the region, with nuclear weapons the secondary rather than primary issue. That’s why J Street and others were involved: *they were far less concerned with notional Iranian nuclear weapons than they were with advancing President Obama’s Middle East legacy—without having to admit what it was.*


M'bold.

Stunning.


----------



## FeXL

I guess when you haven't driven for 30 years, & when someone else driving your Scooby campaign van is doing 92 in a 65 zone...

Hillary Clinton pushes for reinstatement of national 55 mph limit



> Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton...threw out an odd legal suggestion to the National Press Club this week: a nationwide return to the double-nickel. According to Clinton, "The 55-mile speed limit really does lower gas usage. And wherever it can be required, *and the people will accept it*, we ought to do it..."


M'bold.

Right. 'Cause all yer solutions are based on "and the people will accept it". Was down in Montana a coupla weeks back. Speed limit on I-15 & I-90 is now 80mph (129 kph for you younguns).


----------



## FeXL

Long overdue.

TSA's head of security is ousted from his position as questions are asked about why he was paid $90,000 bonus despite chaotic airport lines that caused thousands to miss their flights



> Long security lines at US airports this spring have frustrated travelers and cause thousands to miss their flights. More than 400 passengers in one night alone were affected at O'Hare just a week ago, while some 4,000 passengers have missed flights since February.


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders camp: We hope Trump doesn't 'chicken out' on debate - CNNPolitics.com

Now this would be a great debate worth watching.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife's email server.

Clinton broke rules with secret server



> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton did break her department’s rules by setting up her own secret email server, the inspector general concluded in a report sent to Congress on Wednesday that says *she failed to report hacking attempts and waved off warnings that she should switch to a more official email account.*
> 
> Inspector General Steve Linick, appointed by President Obama, said he couldn’t find any evidence that Mrs. Clinton received approval for her odd email arrangement, and *when lower-level staffers pressed the issue, saying she was skirting open-records laws, they were ordered “never to speak of the secretary’s personal email system again.”*


M'bold.

So, what happened to State Dept. staffers who DID raise concerns about Hillary’s email setup?



> Most qualified candidate _EVER!_


Italics from the link.

Clinton Failed to Report Multiple Attempts to Hack Personal Email



> Hillary Clinton failed to report multiple attempts to hack her personal email account during her tenure as secretary of state.
> 
> The revelation came in a lengthy report issued by the State Department’s inspector general, which faulted Clinton for violating federal regulations governing the use of personal email by high-ranking administration officials.
> 
> The Washington Times noted that a hacking attempt in 2011 led a technology staffer to shut down the server for a few minutes and later warn aides not to send “anything sensitive” to Clinton, according to the report. While the former secretary of state also expressed fear to open email following another attempted breach, Clinton still did not report it to the government.


Napolitano: ‘Ample Evidence’ To Indict Clinton, Only Lynch Or Obama Could Prevent It



> Napolitano said that “Nobody, not the FBI. Not even her own IT people knew about [Clinton’s use of a server while Secretary of State]. Here’s what is new in the report today. Her server in her house in Chappaqua went down a couple of times. And when it went down, the Blackberry wouldn’t work. And the State Department IT people said here, use a state department Blackberry. And she said through her assistant Huma Abedin, no, because we are concerned with the Freedom of Information Act. So, she went dark. And she had documents verbally read to her rather than transmitted to her through the State Department email system.”


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump under oath: Trump University's promises crumble - May. 27, 2016

Caveat emptor ................... Maybe Americans will take heed of this warning. It is sort of like the slogan "Would you buy a used car from this man?" that was put out against Richard Nixon back in 1968.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump says he will not debate Sanders - CNNPolitics.com

All bravado and no guts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting.


----------



## Macfury

Why debate a nonentity? Bernie is not the nominee.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump says he will not debate Sanders - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> All bravado and no guts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why debate a nonentity? Bernie is not the nominee.


A debate against Sanders by Trump would hurt Clinton. He should have done it for free.


----------



## CubaMark

Donald Trump Says There's No California Drought


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump Says There's No California Drought


He's right. California is a victim of its own water mismanagement.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump Says There's No California Drought



Trump says a lot of things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Trump says a lot of things.


I hope he keeps saying them... all the way to the White House!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's right. California is a victim of its own water mismanagement.


That, and one of the worst droughts since the late 19th century. An old friend of my has a son who works for the water management department in CA, and the pictures they have posted of lakes and rivers and state reservoirs are shocking. Lack of snow in the higher elevations, lack of rain and the fight over who uses the water, are all parts of the problem. Luckily, Gov. Brown seems to have gotten some control of the situation, but there are still many who just can't be bothered to conserve and would rather have green lawns and full pools at the expense of the $1000 fine. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I hope he keeps saying them... all the way to the White House!


 Hopefully, with just a visitor's pass.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., one of my areas of expertise is water management. California is coming off one of the wettest periods in its history. The state is not so much experiencing a drought as it is experiencing a normalization of its climate.

There are water rich areas of the state and water poor areas of the state, but Democrats are blockading the construction of new water conveyances. More than 300 billion gallons of water are diverted into San Francisco Bay in order to protect the Delta smelt--but not to humans who could use the water. 

Federal District Court ruling protects delta smelt at the cost of water to farmers

Governor Brown is getting some control of a situation that he is abetting.

You can blame excess water users, but the real problem is effective management of supply.




Dr.G. said:


> That, and one of the worst droughts since the late 19th century. An old friend of my has a son who works for the water management department in CA, and the pictures they have posted of lakes and rivers and state reservoirs are shocking. Lack of snow in the higher elevations, lack of rain and the fight over who uses the water, are all parts of the problem. Luckily, Gov. Brown seems to have gotten some control of the situation, but there are still many who just can't be bothered to conserve and would rather have green lawns and full pools at the expense of the $1000 fine. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, how is effective management of supply part of the problem? I would think that ineffective management of supply would be problematic.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, how is effective management of supply part of the problem? I would think that ineffective management of supply would be problematic.


I would have better said, "lack of effective management."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would have better said, "lack of effective management."


OK. This makes sense, now. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dole says GOPers should fall in line behind Trump, pushes Gingrich for VP - CNNPolitics.com

I told my wife months ago that the Rep. VP nominee would be Newt Gingrich and the Dem. VP nominee would be Gerry Brown of CA. We shall see if I am correct.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Dole says GOPers should fall in line behind Trump, pushes Gingrich for VP - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> I told my wife months ago that the Rep. VP nominee would be Newt Gingrich and the Dem. VP nominee would be Gerry Brown of CA. We shall see if I am correct.



Gingrich would satisfy the conservative base and certainly know his way around Washington. Also something of an outsider.

I truly hope that Hillary chooses Governor Moonbeam to run with.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Gingrich would satisfy the conservative base and certainly know his way around Washington. Also something of an outsider.
> 
> I truly hope that Hillary chooses Governor Moonbeam to run with.


Yes, it would be a very unique ticket on both fronts .............. leading to another Democratic president. :clap::clap::clap:

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

After a couple of Republican presidents in 2016 and 2020, you may just live that dream!



Dr.G. said:


> Yes, it would be a very unique ticket on both fronts .............. leading to another Democratic president. :clap::clap::clap:
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Trump isn't even a Republican. And for that matter, Bernie was an independent until like a year ago. It is bizarre how some people think that Trump represents the views of the Republican Party. Trump represents the views of Trump. That's all he's capable of. One does not simply walk into the White House. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> After a couple of Republican presidents in 2016 and 2020, you may just live that dream!


We shall see, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Trump isn't even a Republican. And for that matter, Bernie was an independent until like a year ago. It is bizarre how some people think that Trump represents the views of the Republican Party. Trump represents the views of Trump. That's all he's capable of. One does not simply walk into the White House.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

You mean that big white house at 1600 Trump Ave. ................. the home of the New Trump Towers?????


----------



## Macfury

Clearly you haven't been following this carefully, fjn. But go ahead and explain which of Trump's views could not possibly be Republican. No bafflegab and backtracking on your part please--just list the policies.



fjnmusic said:


> Trump isn't even a Republican. And for that matter, Bernie was an independent until like a year ago. It is bizarre how some people think that Trump represents the views of the Republican Party. Trump represents the views of Trump. That's all he's capable of. One does not simply walk into the White House.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Marco Rubio says he apologized to Donald Trump for 'small hands' jest - CNNPolitics.com

Rubio fishing for a VP nomination???????? We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Clearly you haven't been following this carefully, fjn. But go ahead and explain which of Trump's views could not possibly be Republican. No bafflegab and backtracking on your part please--just list the policies.



There are no Trump policies which actually ARE Republican, Macfury. Take the Mexican Wall for example: where exactly in the Republican manifesto is that one listed? Or the sending all the Syrian refugees back? About the only thing that comes close is endorsing the Keystone XL pipeline. But being a smart man like yourself, surely you must have figured it out long ago: Trump makes it up as he goes along. He says whatever feel in the moment. There are no consultants. There isn't team. He's a one man force of nature, like the Tasmanian Devil in Bugs Bunny. Trump listens only to Trump. I challenge you—no bafflegab and backtracking on your part please—explain to me exactly which of Trump's policies ARE actually approved by the Republican party.


----------



## Macfury

Why would a policy decision need to be listed in a "Republican Mainfesto" in order to be part of the Republican platform? There's nothing that Trump has said that violates any of it. I don't think you understand US politics in that the nominee--not the party--makes policy and then works to get the party to implement it. The only control the party has is to help ensure that their candidate of choice defeats the others.

I would argue that nothing Trump has said is not permissible as part of the Republican platform. The border wall, for example, is already part of the Secure Fence Act of 2006. 



fjnmusic said:


> There are no Trump policies which actually ARE Republican, Macfury. Take the Mexican Wall for example: where exactly in the Republican manifesto is that one listed? Or the sending all the Syrian refugees back? About the only thing that comes close is endorsing the Keystone XL pipeline. But being a smart man like yourself, surely you must have figured it out long ago: Trump makes it up as he goes along. He says whatever feel in the moment. There are no consultants. There isn't team. He's a one man force of nature, like the Tasmanian Devil in Bugs Bunny. Trump listens only to Trump. I challenge you—no bafflegab and backtracking on your part please—explain to me exactly which of Trump's policies ARE actually approved by the Republican party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention - CNNPolitics.com

May Gov. Johnson be Trump's Ralph Nader. We shall see.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> May Gov. Johnson be Trump's Ralph Nader. We shall see.


Well, I am no expert on American politics, but it looks to me that Trump got to where he is by the will of the American voters. Trying to derail him at the convention flies in the face of democracy, but what do I know?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> May Gov. Johnson be Trump's Ralph Nader. We shall see.


I really doubt it. I was never a big fan of Johnson as a serious Libertarian--with Weld by his side, they form a rather unpalatable non-Libertarian team. If I were an American, this pairing would be all I need to prove that the Libertarians are not serious about what they stand for.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Well, I am no expert on American politics, but it looks to me that Trump got to where he is by the will of the American voters. Trying to derail him at the convention flies in the face of democracy, but what do I know?


Sinc, this is not dealing with the convention. Trump is the nominee for the Republicans. Now, if a strong Libertarian candidate for president can bring those Republicans over to a different view than Trump holds for America, then there is a good chance that the Democratic candidate will win ............. much like Bush beat Gore since he "won" the State of Florida by less than 600 votes because Ralph Nader pulled away so many possible Gore votes. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I really doubt it. I was never a big fan of Johnson as a serious Libertarian--with Weld by his side, they form a rather unpalatable non-Libertarian team. If I were an American, this pairing would be all I need to prove that the Libertarians are not serious about what they stand for.


And I thought you were a "Libertarian, do or die" person.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Well, I am no expert on American politics, but it looks to me that Trump got to where he is by the will of the American voters. Trying to derail him at the convention flies in the face of democracy, but what do I know?


American democracy is only Smoke and Mirrors, at least at the national levels. The primary system is designed to ensure that both Republirats and Demifarts nominate the candidate most likely to serve the will of the Super Duper Elite corporate masters. On the rare occasions where this fails, back-up strategies include assassination and corruption. 

Trump is a temporary anomaly so the rats are relying entirely on Hillary winning the final showdown in November. Rest assured that rigged voting machines are just one of the tools designed to make that happen. Also expect to see some big money land in Governor Johnson's coffers as the super leeches look to bleed votes from the combover.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> And I thought you were a "Libertarian, do or die" person.


The winning candidates are not known for Libertarian positions.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The winning candidates are not known for Libertarian positions.


But they carry the Libertarian banner!!!!!!!!!! Have you become a LINO??????????


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Sinc, this is not dealing with the convention. Trump is the nominee for the Republicans. Now, if a strong Libertarian candidate for president can bring those Republicans over to a different view than Trump holds for America, then there is a good chance that the Democratic candidate will win ............. much like Bush beat Gore since he "won" the State of Florida by less than 600 votes because Ralph Nader pulled away so many possible Gore votes. We shall see.


Well, I did admit I am no authority on US politics, so I bow to your greater grasp of the campaign.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> But they carry the Libertarian banner!!!!!!!!!! Have you become a LINO??????????


Their views are those of moderate Republicans. Trump is as much a libertarian as they are.


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> Well, I am no expert on American politics, but it looks to me that Trump got to where he is by the will of the American voters. Trying to derail him at the convention flies in the face of democracy, but what do I know?



By brainwashing the will of Republican American voters, you mean. They represent no more than half of all eligible voters. He'd have to do quite a selling job to win over the Democrat voters. Given his familiarity with the mass media, however, anything is possible. Pretty much every tyrant is loved by some population at some point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

He hasn't done anything tyrannous. You seem very prejudiced.



fjnmusic said:


> By brainwashing the will of Republican American voters, you mean. They represent no more than half of all eligible voters. He'd have to do quite a selling job to win over the Democrat voters. Given his familiarity with the mass media, however, anything is possible. Pretty much every tyrant is loved by some population at some point.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Well, I did admit I am no authority on US politics, so I bow to your greater grasp of the campaign.


No problem. My wife is married to an American and she does not fully understand the whole process of the US election. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Their views are those of moderate Republicans. Trump is as much a libertarian as they are.


It will be interesting to see if Rand and Ron Paul endorse Trump.


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> .
> View attachment 69314


Sad, but all too true. Actually, only Bernie Sanders has done much in the Senate for the vets in the US, along with Sen. John McCain.


----------



## Dr.G.

Robert Reich: It’s time for Clinton and Sanders supporters to swallow some tough medicine

An interesting read. It describes my wife and me well, in that she supports Clinton and I support Sanders (although I am the only one with an actual vote in this election). She and I need to come together to help defeat Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It will be interesting to see if Rand and Ron Paul endorse Trump.


I heard Ron Paul on the radio the other day, shilling for a company that provides freeze dried emergency supplies. He may be too busy to endorse anyone.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I heard Ron Paul on the radio the other day, shilling for a company that provides freeze dried emergency supplies. He may be too busy to endorse anyone.


 He may be trying to tell us something ............. much like the bomb shelter scares in the 1960s. A Trump victory and we need to head for the hills. 

Has Rand Paul, a sitting senator, endorsed anyone yet?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> He may be trying to tell us something ............. much like the bomb shelter scares in the 1960s. A Trump victory and we need to head for the hills.
> 
> Has Rand Paul, a sitting senator, endorsed anyone yet?


Ron says he will not endorse Trump. Rand says he will.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ron says he will not endorse Trump. Rand says he will.


Sorry to hear this, Macfury.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Good one, Mark. :lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Nope...

Back in January:

Poll: Nearly 20 Percent of Democrats Would Vote for Trump Over Hillary

CBS exit poll May 11 (44%):

SHOCK POLL! You Won’t Believe What % of Bernie Supporters in W Virginia Said They’d Vote TRUMP Over Hillary

Fox exit poll, same date:

Shock: 50% of Bernie Voters Pick Trump Over Hillary

GO HILLARY!!!

Trump 2016!



fjnmusic said:


> He'd have to do quite a selling job to win over the Democrat voters.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...aphing-the-real-barack-obama?CMP=share_btn_fb

I especially liked the picture of the three year old boy looking up at Pres. Obama. Very touching and poignant.

I realize that this post will most likely set off a barrage of anti-Obama postings, but I still feel that his two elections were important for America. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

This is precisely why Trump should be elected! Let the "progs" get rip-roaring drunk as their world is torn apart!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is precisely why Trump should be elected! Let the "progs" get rip-roaring drunk as their world is torn apart!


Why would progressives want to get drunk as Trump tears the world apart? If anything, we need to stand firm and protect America.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Why would progressives want to get drunk as Trump tears the world apart? If anything, we need to stand firm and protect America.


They would need to protect "progressivism." America would do just fine without them!


----------



## Macfury

Got nothing against the photos, but trying to pass them off as candid would be a hard sell.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...aphing-the-real-barack-obama?CMP=share_btn_fb
> 
> I especially liked the picture of the three year old boy looking up at Pres. Obama. Very touching and poignant.
> 
> I realize that this post will most likely set off a barrage of anti-Obama postings, but I still feel that his two elections were important for America. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They would need to protect "progressivism." America would do just fine without them!


Agreed. Progressives need to protect other progressives and our ideals, along with America. And yes, America would be "great" without the wilder Trump supporters.

Again, we are in agreement. Are you sure you are not my long lost twin brother????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Got nothing against the photos, but trying to pass them off as candid would be a hard sell.


Well, they were candid in that they were not photo-ops and at times he did not know a picture was being taken.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, they were candid in that they were not photo-ops and at times he did not know a picture was being taken.


I would say that two of the kiddie shots looked fairly candid--but the rest looked posed. Then again, there were people who really believed that Bill and Hillary Clinton began to spontaneously dance on the beach without realizing they were being photographed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would say that two of the kiddie shots looked fairly candid--but the rest looked posed. Then again, there were people who really believed that Bill and Hillary Clinton began to spontaneously dance on the beach without realizing they were being photographed.


I disagree. Most of the pics were taken without his knowledge, while some were taken with the knowledge that there was a photographer in the room somewhere. I love the pic of his racing Bo down the hall. If it was a doxie, it would be race over for the president. Of course, if they were one of my doxies, they would stop short suddenly, he might trip ................. and we would be watching the swearing in of temporary Pres. Biden while the president tries to regain consciousness.


----------



## Macfury

I believe President Obama is always thinking about photo ops.



Dr.G. said:


> I disagree. Most of the pics were taken without his knowledge, while some were taken with the knowledge that there was a photographer in the room somewhere. I love the pic of his racing Bo down the hall. If it was a doxie, it would be race over for the president. Of course, if they were one of my doxies, they would stop short suddenly, he might trip ................. and we would be watching the swearing in of temporary Pres. Biden while the president tries to regain consciousness.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I believe President Obama is always thinking about photo ops.


No way. You must be thinking of George Bush. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why Donald Trump is the next Walter White (Opinion) - CNN.com

Interesting.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Why Donald Trump is the next Walter White (Opinion) - CNN.com
> 
> Interesting.


Dreadfully one-sided. Instead of looking at the actual villainy of Hillary Clinton, they _imagine_ villainy on the part of Donald Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Bernie is mum on how his ideas are playing out in Venezuela:



> LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: I am sure that you know about this topic: *various leftist governments, especially the populists, are in serious trouble in Latin America. The socialist model in Venezuela has the country near collapse. Argentina, also Brazil, how do you explain that failure?
> *
> BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: You are asking me questions…
> 
> LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: I am sure you’re interested in that.
> 
> BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: I am very interested, but right now I’m running for President of the United States.
> 
> LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: So you don’t have an opinion about the crisis in Venezuela?
> 
> BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Of course I have an opinion, but as I said, I’m focused on my campaign.


Bernie Sanders Isn't Interested In Answering Questions About Socialism In Venezuela | Video | RealClearPolitics


----------



## SINC

Some say that Trump's refusal to debate makes him a chicken. That would explain his reluctance to get involved with a 'Sanders'.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Some say that Trump's refusal to debate makes him a chicken. That would explain his reluctance to get involved with a 'Sanders'.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Huh. What does this HuffPo freelance reporter know that they want to cover up?

EXCLUSIVE — Huffington Post Writer: Editors Deleted My Article on Hillary’s Imminent Indictment, Disabled Me from Writing



> Huffington Post freelance contributor Frank Huguenard, a scientist and public speaker, wrote a report for the liberal site Sunday entitled “Hillary Clinton to be Indicted On Federal Racketeering Charges.” But the piece was not up for long before the Huffington Post pulled it down and replaced it with a “404” Error screen.
> 
> “Huffpo has yet to respond to my request for an explanation,” Huguenard tweeted at this Breitbart News reporter Monday morning. “I’ve got my sources, they never asked.”
> 
> Huguenard later told Breitbart News, “I want to do another story but my HuffPo account has been temporarily disabled. Not sure what’s happening with them.”


Related:

The Huffington Post Accidentally Posts Article Announcing Hillary’s Indictment



> Does The Huffington Post know something we don’t? Do they have an inside scoop of the FBI’s ongoing investigation into Hillary’s email? I sure hope so! This headline is fantastic! It was actually live (briefly) on their site Sunday.


Can't be interrupting the narrative now, can we?


----------



## FeXL

MF?

Libertarians pick ex-New Mexico Gov. Johnson for president



> The Libertarian Party again nominated former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson as its presidential candidate Sunday, believing he can challenge presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton because of their poor showing in popularity polls.
> 
> Johnson, 63, won the nomination on the second ballot at the party's convention in Orlando, Florida, defeating Austin Petersen, the founder of The Libertarian Republic magazine; and anti-computer virus company founder John McAfee. The delegates selected former Massachusetts Gov. William Weld to be his vice presidential running mate.
> 
> Johnson, the party's nominee in 2012, told the delegates during his acceptance speech that his job will be to get the Libertarian platform before the voters at a level the party has not seen.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> MF?
> 
> Libertarians pick ex-New Mexico Gov. Johnson for president


Johnson is more of a Republican with small-government views than a Libertarian. However, his 43% spending cut plan is something I could go along with.

His handpicked running mate William Weld is a non-starter and seriously harms Johnson's credibility. Weld supported Kasich, is not a strong gun rights supporter and is a UN booster.

The ticket now stinks of Republican opportunism.


----------



## Dr.G.

California governor Brown endorses Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting. My wife laughed at me a couple of months ago when I suggested Jerry Brown as a possible running mate for Clinton. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The ticket now stinks of Republican opportunism.


Thx. One shouldn't be surprised, I s'pose.


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Assembled from the worst bits and bytes each candidate has to offer.


----------



## Macfury

And the Neo Con Wing of the Republican Party's white knight rides in to save the day... David French??????

Bill Kristol's white knight: David French - CNNPolitics.com



> Bill Kristol's white knight independent presidential candidate is a fellow conservative writer with no national name recognition: David French.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And the Neo Con Wing of the Republican Party's white knight rides in to save the day... David French??????
> 
> Bill Kristol's white knight: David French - CNNPolitics.com


Well, it would make for an interesting race.


----------



## Macfury

Kristol is simply desperate because his love of military adventurism is being marginalized. He's becoming something of an embarrassment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Kristol is simply desperate because his love of military adventurism is being marginalized. He's becoming something of an embarrassment.


Well, he has Mitt Romney's support, so that much count for something.


----------



## Macfury

Romney is still stinging from his drubbing in 2012... the man who would not fight. I would be echoing the sentiments of many others by saying that if had invested half the energy in attacking Obama then that he is investing in attacking Trump now he would be president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney is still stinging from his drubbing in 2012... the man who would not fight. I would be echoing the sentiments of many others by saying that if had invested half the energy in attacking Obama then that he is investing in attacking Trump now he would be president.


Maybe so, but luckily he did not make this effort back in 2012. Still, it would be interesting if the election gets thrown to the House of Representatives ........... and they select Mitt Romney as the "compromise candidate". He gets into the White House via the back door. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Maybe so, but luckily he did not make this effort back in 2012. Still, it would be interesting if the election gets thrown to the House of Representatives ........... and they select Mitt Romney as the "compromise candidate". He gets into the White House via the back door. We shall see.


If he could not stand up to a cream puff like BO, then he could not have been an excellent president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If he could not stand up to a cream puff like BO, then he could not have been an excellent president.


Agreed. He was no match for Pres. Obama, but he might just satisfy the Republican establishment. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Agreed. He was no match for Pres. Obama, but he might just satisfy the Republican establishment. We shall see.


Romney could have made mincemeat of Obama, but he rolled over instead.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Romney could have made mincemeat of Obama, but he rolled over instead.


No. He was doomed from the start. Not sure who the Republicans could have nominated in 2012 that could have defeated Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> If he could not stand up to a cream puff like BO, then he could not have been an excellent president.


Yeah. In hindsight, sometimes the guy you wanted to win NOT winning can be a blessing you didn't count on. If they aren't up to the job of replacing the previous guy they probably won't be up to the job of running a government.


----------



## Dr.G.

I supported Sen. McCarthy back in 1968, but would have voted for VP Humphrey had I been allowed to vote. I support Sen. Sanders now, but will vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia if she is the nominiee. Trump as president will be far worse that Nixon was as president. We shall see. 

Bernie or bust? The lessons of 1968 - CNN.com


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not sure who the Republicans could have nominated in 2012 that could have defeated Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


Anybody who wasn't afraid to go on the attack.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Anybody who wasn't afraid to go on the attack.


True ........... but they still would have lost.


----------



## CubaMark

*Stephen Hawking Angers Trump Supporters with Baffling Array of Long Words*







*LONDON (The Borowitz Report)—*The theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking angered supporters of Donald J. Trump on Monday by responding to a question about the billionaire with a baffling array of long words.

Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.

Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”

“For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.”

Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.”​
(New Yorker)


----------



## ehMax

CubaMark said:


> Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue..


 Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!! Stop it with your fancy college words you Libtard.


----------



## Macfury

Man, that's a pretty sad attempt at comedy. Must have been written by a millennial.




CubaMark said:


> The theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking angered supporters of Donald J. Trump on Monday by responding to a question about the billionaire with a baffling array of long words.
> 
> Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.
> 
> Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”
> 
> “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.”
> 
> Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.”[/INDENT]
> 
> (New Yorker)


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Man, that's a pretty sad attempt at comedy. Must have been written by a millennial.


Pretty sure being born in 1958 excludes him from the _millennial_ category


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Pretty sure being born in 1958 excludes him from the _millennial_ category


Then he should be ashamed of himself. Reminds me of the stuff we used to produce in high school and print off on the photocopier.


----------



## heavyall

I'm shocked that Borowitz is that old. His writing always struck me as someone too young to really understand what he was writing about. I guess I won't be giving him that benefit of the doubt anymore.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Stephen Hawking Angers Trump Supporters with Baffling Array of Long Words*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LONDON (The Borowitz Report)—*The theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking angered supporters of Donald J. Trump on Monday by responding to a question about the billionaire with a baffling array of long words.
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.
> 
> 
> 
> Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”
> 
> 
> 
> “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.”
> 
> 
> 
> Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.”​
> 
> 
> (New Yorker)




Awesome! It's sad but not beyond the pale that fully grown adults would be confused by the word "denominator."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

ehMax said:


> Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!! Stop it with your fancy college words you Libtard.




Like! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's badly-written satire, fjn. Nobody was confused by any of the words in the article.



fjnmusic said:


> Awesome! It's sad but not beyond the pale that fully grown adults would be confused by the word "denominator."


----------



## FeXL

Or by the difference between percent and percentage point...



fjnmusic said:


> Awesome! It's sad but not beyond the pale that fully grown adults would be confused by the word "denominator."


----------



## CubaMark

*Context:*

*Donald Trump throws tantrum after reporters do their job*

Donald Trump's press conference tantrum Tuesday -- during which he called one reporter "a sleaze" and lashed out at others for seeking verification of a $1 million charitable gift he claimed to have made to veterans organizations -- is the inevitable result of months of fact-twisting, distortions and outright falsehoods uttered by the candidate on a daily basis.

The truth of the matter is that reporters have very good reasons to take Trump's claims with a grain of salt -- and to ignore the name-calling, mockery and insults he uses to try and distract journalists from double-checking nearly everything he says.

Trump routinely and repeatedly says many, many things that are simply untrue. Not only were members of the press justified in skeptically asking Trump to prove he made the donations he'd boasted about, they -- we -- are especially required to verify any of the candidate's assertions, because they so often turn out to be at odds with the facts.​(CNN)


----------



## FeXL

Curious that their due diligence and fact finding doesn't extend to Bill's Wife or Sanders...



CubaMark said:


> *Context:*


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Curious that their due diligence and fact finding doesn't extend to Bill's Wife or Sanders...


Exactly Trump's point. They only do their job vigorously about one half of the time--when it suits the reporters' agenda.


----------



## Macfury

The great communicator tries to wing it sans Teleprompter... and the results are hilarious:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The great communicator tries to wing it sans Teleprompter... and the results are hilarious:


8 years as POTUS & he stil can't string together 4 sentences without a teleprompter. I wonder where in the bedroom he puts it...


----------



## FeXL

Chicago. Detroit. Atlanta...

How the Democratic Party Ruined Atlanta



> Atlanta, Georgia has not been governed by a Republican mayor since 1879. Most significant is the fact that the city has been led exclusively by Democrats since the 1960s and early '70s, the period when the Democratic Party emphatically broke away from centrist liberals and fell predominantly under the sway of its far left wing, a course which it still follows to this day.
> 
> One of Atlanta's more important political figures during this Democratic era was its first African American mayor, Maynard Jackson, who held office for three (non-consecutive) four-year terms: 1974-78, 1978–82, and 1990–94. In May 1974, the newly elected Jackson stoked racial tensions in Atlanta when he undermined the authority of the incumbent (white) police chief, John Inman, by making him subservient to the newly appointed “Public Safety Commissioner,” the black activist Reginald Eaves. Eaves was a longtime friend of Jackson's and had no law-enforcement experience whatsoever. Corrupt to his core and possessing an unparalleled sense of shameless entitlement, Eaves openly and defiantly used public money to purchase extra options on his fully loaded city vehicle, stating: “If I can’t ride in a little bit of comfort, to hell with it.” He sparked further controversy when he appointed an ex-convict as his personal secretary and instituted a quota system that gave preference to African Americans for hirings and promotions within the police department. Eventually, in 1978, Mayor Jackson was forced to fire Eaves for the role the latter had played in a scandal where he had helped police officers cheat on promotions exams.


----------



## FeXL

One more checkmark in the "Not" column...

Sanders proposes national ban on fracking



> Bernie Sanders called for a nationwide ban on fracking during a news conference on Wednesday, warning that Hillary Clinton's support of the practice could be "disastrous" for California.
> 
> "It is too late for regulating, I think fracking has to be banned in America," Sanders told reporters during his stop in Spreckles, Calif. "Secretary Clinton's record when she was secretary of state on *pushing fracking on foreign countries* is certainly not the kind of record we want for president of the United States."


M'bold.

Nope, it certainly is not. That fracking needs to be done right in the good, ol' US of A!


----------



## Macfury

I can understand Sanders' concern--how do you promote prohibitively expensive "renewables" when consumers are being coddled with surging economic growth fueled by cheap and abundant energy?


----------



## heavyall

FeXL said:


> One more checkmark in the "Not" column...
> 
> Sanders proposes national ban on fracking


Now I kind of hope that Sanders does win. Terrible policies like that would only be good for oil producers in Canada.


----------



## FeXL

heavyall said:


> Now I kind of hope that Sanders does win. Terrible policies like that would only be good for oil producers in Canada.


True, but only if we can convince The Hairdo & The Knothead to get pipelines approved.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> True, but only if we can convince The Hairdo & The Knothead to get pipelines approved.



Do ad hominem concepts apply only to people you are arguing with directly? Or do they also apply to name calling of third parties? Just curious, because it seems to be a weak form of persuasion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Never heard of nicknames, I guess? That is what they are to most, not ad hominems.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Do ad hominem concepts apply only to people you are arguing with directly? Or do they also apply to name calling of third parties? Just curious, because it seems to be a weak form of persuasion.


Did it weaken your form of persuasion when you regularly called Stephen Harper "Herr Harper"?


----------



## MacGuiver

Looking South, it looks like the Democrats have the violent mob vote wrapped up nicely. They continue to inadvertently increase Trumps chances of winning with every protest/assault they perpetrate. Nothing says Vote for Bernie/Hillary like your supporters swarming and violently attacking those that won't.

How The American Left Made Political Violence The New Normal | Daily Wire


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Did it weaken your form of persuasion when you regularly called Stephen Harper "Herr Harper"?


Nailed it!

Also, curious his observation was never administered towards a certain poster from the Moncton area...

Also, interesting that the only thing he can find to comment on is "name calling"...


----------



## FeXL

As SINC noted, they are nicknames. In these two cases, they are not only descriptive but also pejoratives. Regarding "The Hairdo", it's because it's all he has. All hat & no horse, so to speak. Regarding "The Knothead", it not only phonetically ties in with her last name, but is also her mindset.

And, frankly, I don't care if you are persuaded or not. I can only lead the horse to water...



fjnmusic said:


> Just curious, because it seems to be a weak form of persuasion.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Did it weaken your form of persuasion when you regularly called Stephen Harper "Herr Harper"?



Yup. That's why I stopped doing once I was called on it. Now can you answer my question please? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Yup. That's why I stopped doing once I was called on it. Now can you answer my question please?


That seems to have been some sort of deathbed conversion. You continued using it until April 10th:



fjnmusic said:


> Opinion masquerading as truth bothers me at all times, yes. So does editorializing in an article that is supposed to be reporting only. Any time there was an attack on *Herr Harper* I always considered the source.


http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/138713-refugees-40.html#post2205738


----------



## FeXL

Further on the fallout from the Charlie Foxtrot.

Thirteen of 23 Co-Ops Created Under Obamacare Have Failed



> Ohio’s InHealth Mutual co-op announced last week that it is going out of business, making it the 13th co-op to fail out of the 23 that were created under Obamacare.
> 
> The Ohio Department of Insurance asked to liquidate the company, saying that the company was in a “hazardous financial condition.” The co-op served nearly 22,000 consumers who now have 60 days to find another policy offered by another company on the federal exchange.
> 
> “Our examination of the company’s financials made it clear that the company’s losses would prevent it from paying future claims should its operations continue,” said Ohio Director of Insurance Lt. Gov. Mary Taylor. *“Under Ohio law, we acted with certainty to protect the consumers.”*


M'bold.

Huh. Too bad Obama never had the same consideration...


----------



## FeXL

More questions for Bill's Wife.

Hillary University: Bill Clinton Bagged $16.46 Million from For-Profit College as State Dept. Funneled $55 Million Back



> With her campaign sinking in the polls, Hillary Clinton has launched a desperate attack against Trump University to deflect attention away from her deep involvement with a controversial for-profit college that made the Clintons millions, even as the school faced serious legal scrutiny and criminal investigations.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That seems to have been some sort of deathbed conversion. You continued using it until April 10th:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/138713-refugees-40.html#post2205738



Again, you avoid answering a simple question. Not surprising I guess for a man of your integrity. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Pay no attention to that damning evidence behind the curtain...



fjnmusic said:


> Again, you avoid answering a simple question. Not surprising I guess for a man of your integrity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Pay no attention to that damning evidence behind the curtain...



Since your memory appears to be failing you, the question was whether or not ad hominem attacks (criticizing or making fun of the person, rather than the argument), extends to third parties mentioned during the course of the argument, such as Knothead, or do they apply only to the person you are directly arguing with? If you're afraid to answer, that's okay too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You have already answered your own question. You said it undermines your arguments, yet you have continued to do so.



fjnmusic said:


> Since your memory appears to be failing you, the question was whether or not ad hominem attacks (criticizing or making fun of the person, rather than the argument), extends to third parties mentioned during the course of the argument, such as Knothead, or do they apply only to the person you are directly arguing with? If you're afraid to answer, that's okay too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You have already answered your own question. You said it undermines your arguments, yet you have continued to do so.



Not since April. It is now June. Do YOU believe ad hominem attacks, even against third parties, weaken one's arguments, including your own, should you choose to use them? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Well, at least Trump has the support of his "African American guy."

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...can-kkk-sot.cnn/video/playlists/donald-trump/


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----------



## CubaMark

Tell me how you can watch this video with CNN's Jake Trapper interviewing Trump, and not conclude that Donald is completely off his rocker?





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Hey, did you know that Trump is _building a wall? _


----------



## Macfury

This is the same sort of technique used by the American left whenever they're under the microscope--refuse to answer the question... stay on message. You're just shocked to see someone on the other side of the political spectrum do the same.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Tell me how you can watch this video with CNN's Jake Trapper interviewing Trump, and not conclude that Donald is completely off his rocker?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, did you know that Trump is _building a wall? _



There's a rumour....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> This is the same sort of technique used by the American left whenever they're under the microscope--refuse to answer the question... stay on message. You're just shocked to see someone on the other side of the political spectrum do the same.



Boy, that was the weakest rebuttal I've ever seen you come up with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> This is the same sort of technique used by the American left whenever they're under the microscope--refuse to answer the question... stay on message. You're just shocked to see someone on the other side of the political spectrum do the same.


(a) What is this "American Left" to which you refer? Bernie hasn't refused to answer any questions during an interview, to the extent that I am aware. I can't think of anyone else in US presidential politics who would fit that category.

(b) What friggin' message? 

(c) Seriously? You believe that Trump's very-much-on-display character in this interview is in any way Presidential, serious or responsible?

What was that line from The Walking Dead (One of Negan's 'Saviors')? "If you have to eat ****, best not to nibble. Bite, chew, swallow, repeat.” That's the only way to explain the acceptance by the far-right of Trump as a viable candidate. :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

Says it all!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> (a) What is this "American Left" to which you refer? Bernie hasn't refused to answer any questions during an interview, to the extent that I am aware. I can't think of anyone else in US presidential politics who would fit that category


We've already covered your inability to see the American left from the cheap seats on the _far _left. Watch Hillary Clinton laugh off softball questions about endangering national security through the use of a private homebrew server. 



CubaMark said:


> (b) What friggin' message?


That Tapper cannot control the interview.



CubaMark said:


> (c) Seriously? You believe that Trump's very-much-on-display character in this interview is in any way Presidential, serious or responsible?


I don't want a president who provides people with some sort of media image. I want one who will build a wall and do two or three other things. I've watched an empty suit "sound presidential" for eight years and doing nothing but harm to the USA.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> We've already covered your inability to see the American left from the cheap seats on the _far _left. Watch Hillary Clinton laugh off softball questions about endangering national security through the use of a private homebrew server.
> 
> 
> 
> That Tapper cannot control the interview.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want a president who provides people with some sort of media image. I want one who will build a wall and do two or three other things. I've watched an empty suit "sound presidential" for eight years and doing nothing but harm to the USA.


Careful what you wish for, mon ami. That wall may be closer than you think with a Trump presidency.

Just wait until the Donald casts his eyes northward - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Careful what you wish for, mon ami. That wall may be closer than you think with a Trump presidency.
> 
> Just wait until the Donald casts his eyes northward - The Globe and Mail


I'll be looking forward to the day that President Trump gives Justin Trudeau a wedgie.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'll be looking forward to the day that President Trump gives Justin Trudeau a wedgie.


 Better that Clinton gives Trudeau a friendly, non-sexual hug. :love2:


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Better that Clinton gives Trudeau a friendly, non-sexual hug. :love2:


Nope. I'd prefer the wedgie.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk about that outstanding, exemplar government agency, the EPA!

In 'Scandal-Free' Obama Years, EPA Has Employed a Molester, a Fake CIA Agent, and Other Frauds



> On Saturday morning, Tom Johnson at NewsBusters called attention to how Paul Waldman at The Week crowed about the Obama administration's supposedly scandal-free record consisting of "*only piddling little scandalettes*." Waldman's fever-swamp take is made even more hilarious by the fact that he considers George W. Bush's "selling of the Iraq War" a genuine scandal. But somehow, President Barack Obama's selling of the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare — where even the reflexively leftist evaluators at Politifact labeled his core "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan" promise the Lie of the Year in 2013 — must not be a scandal, or is at worst a "piddling little scandalette."
> 
> Waldman, along with most of the establishment press, which has consistently ignored hundreds of examples of scandals and scandalous behavior during the Obama administration (more on that later in this post), surely won't consider the "90 EPA employee misconduct cases pending" anything more than "piddling." The rest of us in the real world will, so what follows are just a few of them, as described by Jacqueline Leo at The Week on May 18.


Links' bold.

Is that like a rapelette, where it actually happened but only a little bit?

The list is pretty interesting.

Related:

EPA Won’t Give Up Docs On Science Advisers Who Got Millions From Taxpayers



> The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has denied a records request from a government watchdog group asking for financial conflict of interest statements from *agency science advisers who got $190 million in federal grants.*
> 
> EPA said Steve Milloy, an attorney with the Energy & Environment Legal Institute (EELI), couldn’t get financial disclosure statements from members of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee (CASAC) because “the harm to the individuals … clearly outweighs the public interest in such disclosure.”
> 
> EPA also said CASAC members’ financial statements were exempt from Freedom of Information Act requests under the rather ironically named Ethics in Government Act.
> 
> *Milloy said the agency’s likely withholding the documents to protect itself from embarrassment, likely because none of EPA’s science advisers reported benefiting from government largesse on their conflict of interest forms.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Much of this makes sense.

Trump is not a liberal or conservative, he’s a pragmatist.



> We recently enjoyed a belated holiday dinner with friends at the home of other friends. The dinner conversation was jocund, ranging from discussions about antique glass and china to theology and politics.
> 
> At one point reference was made to Donald Trump being a conservative, to which I responded that Trump is not a conservative.
> 
> I said that I neither view nor do I believe Trump views himself as a conservative. I stated it was my opinion that *Trump is a pragmatist. He sees a problem and understands it must be fixed. He doesn’t see the problem as liberal or conservative; he sees it only as a problem.* That is a quality that should be admired and applauded, not condemned.


M'bold.

Excellent read and one more reason why he'll make a better POTUS than any stinking _politician..._


----------



## Dr.G.

Libertarian Gary Johnson could swing votes from Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton - Politics - CBC News

An interesting article.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Libertarian Gary Johnson could swing votes from Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton - Politics - CBC News
> 
> An interesting article.


Early polls have Johnson siphoning votes... from Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Early polls have Johnson siphoning votes... from Clinton.


Wait until the election .............. Libertarians shall take those like-minded Republicans who can't see themselves voting for Trump into their tent. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gary-johnson-siphons-support-clinton-trump-new-poll/


> Johnson claimed more support from Clinton than Trump, despite calls from Republicans saying that a vote for a third party is a vote for Hillary. This correlates with the last poll conducted by Monmouth University in late March, where Johnson claimed more support from Clinton than Trump as well.





Dr.G. said:


> Wait until the election .............. Libertarians shall take those like-minded Republicans who can't see themselves voting for Trump into their tent. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Libertarian Gary Johnson could swing votes from Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton - Politics - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting article.




Wait a minute. Isn't Johnson just another stinking politician? One of our learned friends has already assured us that the next POTUS will not be a stinking politician. 


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----------



## Macfury

Did you think Johnson would win?



fjnmusic said:


> Wait a minute. Isn't Johnson just another stinking politician? One of our learned friends has already assured us that the next POTUS will not be a stinking politician.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Did you think Johnson would win?



Unfortunately you appear not to speak the language of sarcasm.


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## Macfury

I don't understand the point of the sarcasm then. Who is your sarcasm aimed at?



fjnmusic said:


> Unfortunately you appear not to speak the language of sarcasm.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't understand the point of the sarcasm then. Who is your sarcasm aimed at?



To define humour is to destroy it. If you don't get the joke, then it wasn't for you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I suspect it wasn't even a joke as people define it. Nobody here expects Johnson to win.


----------



## FeXL

What you seem to be blithely unaware of is that while spoken sarcasm is easily detected, written sarcasm is not.

The shrewd among us will add a /sarc tag to our posts to indicate the sarcastic passage.



fjnmusic said:


> Unfortunately you appear not to speak the language of sarcasm.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What you seem to be blithely unaware of is that while spoken sarcasm is easily detected, written sarcasm is not.
> 
> The shrewd among us will add a /sarc tag to our posts to indicate the sarcastic passage.


It's not the sarcasm that's the problem--the joke itself makes no sense.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's not the sarcasm that's the problem--the joke itself makes no sense.


No argument. Just educating the educator on sarc tags.


----------



## FeXL

It ain't a conspiracy theory if it's actually happening...

IRS finally reveals list of tea party groups targeted for extra scrutiny



> The tax agency filed the list last month as part of a court case after a series of federal judges, fed up with what they said was the agency’s stonewalling, ordered it to get a move on. The case is a class-action lawsuit, so the list of names is critical to knowing the scope of those who would have a claim against the IRS.


More:



> *The government released names of 426 organizations.* Another 40 were not released as part of the list because they had already opted out of being part of the class-action suit.
> 
> That total is much higher than the 298 groups the IRS‘ inspector general identified back in May 2013...


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

Newt Gingrich, a possible VP running mate with Donald Trump, is in hot water with his saying that Trump was wrong in saying that the judge in his Trump Univ. case should be removed since he is a Mexican, even though the judge was born in Indiana. "This is one of the worst mistakes Trump has made," Gingrich said.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Newt Gingrich, a possible VP running mate with Donald Trump, is in hot water with his saying that Trump was wrong in saying that the judge in his Trump Univ. case should be removed since he is a Mexican, even though the judge was born in Indiana. "This is one of the worst mistakes Trump has made," Gingrich said.


Brutal. Now, let's compare & contrast that with the veritable plethora of lies Bill's Wife has spread over the years...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Newt Gingrich, a possible VP running mate with Donald Trump, is in hot water with his saying that Trump was wrong in saying that the judge in his Trump Univ. case should be removed since he is a Mexican, even though the judge was born in Indiana. "This is one of the worst mistakes Trump has made," Gingrich said.


The judge is a member of La Raza Lawyers Of San Diego, a group associated with Latino advocacy group La Raza. I think Trump can probably make a fair case that his views on Mexican immigration and building a wall might earn him unfair treatment.


----------



## Macfury

David French declines to run as Kristol's third-party candidate...

#NeverTrump Officially Becomes a Bad Joke | LifeZette



> Neoconservative #NeverTrumper Bill Kristol’s fantasy of an independent “white knight” candidate appearing in the nick of time to save him, his cohorts at The Weekly Standard, and the three people left in America who read that magazine from the nefarious wiles of Donald Trump came crashing down this weekend.
> 
> ------
> 
> Kristol has succeeded unquestionably in turning the #NeverTrump “movement” into a bad joke.
> 
> David French, the National Review writer, lawyer, and Iraq War vet hand-picked by Kristol — in what will surely go down as one of the most anticlimactic announcements in U.S. political history — to be that #NeverTrump white knight has unequivocally rejected the honor.Then Kristol announced his mystery candidate — David French — and cemented his status as living, breathing political farce. To build so much hype surrounding an "impressive" candidate with a "real chance" of victory only to announce the selection of someone with visibility so low that aircraft are advised not to take off or land in his proximity is surely one of the most inexplicable moves of Kristol's career.


----------



## FeXL

So, apparently Bill's Wife got the numbers. Perfect. Dems country-wide will now be voting for Trump. 

Here's just a few of the reasons why...

Ex-Secret Service officer: Hillary lacks ‘integrity and temperament’ for presidency



> Former Secret Service Officer Gary J. Byrne was posted outside the Oval Office during Bill Clinton’s tenure in the White House. In his new book, Crisis of Character, Byrne describes what he saw and heard in the 1990s. He says it disgusted him and he is convinced Hillary Clinton “lacks the integrity and temperament” to hold the office.


None of this surprises me.

Trump 2016!


----------



## chasMac

A least preface this with NSFW. Most of us are in Canada.



FeXL said:


> Trump 2016!


----------



## FeXL

chasMac said:


> A least preface this with NSFW. Most of us are in Canada.


As am I. And, with close to a trillion dollars of trade between the two countries every year, I'd rather trade with Trump than a socialist or a liar.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot. 

Or, seeing as Obamacare sucks, let's try single payer...

SEIU Backs Single Payer Health Care



> Obamacare, which the SEIU lobbied for and endorsed, failed to address inequality in the healthcare marketplace and insurance systems remain “confusing and inefficient.” The union pledged to work to improve upon Obamacare with the goal of expanding into a government-run system.


----------



## FeXL

Fauxcahontas offended because the Republicans won't play along. 'Cause I'm sure if the shoe were on the other foot, she's be bending over backwards to cooperate...

Elizabeth Warren lambastes Senate Republicans for ‘obstruction’ of judges



> Sen. Elizabeth Warren accused Senate Republicans Monday of waging a systematic campaign to block nearly all of President Obama’s judicial and executive branch nominees.
> Ms. Warren, Massachusetts Democrat and one of the left’s most aggressive attack dogs, said Republican stonewalling of Judge Merrick Garland’s nomination to the Supreme Court is “only the latest example of Senate Republicans’ overall approach to Obama administration nominees.”
> “For seven years, Senate Republicans have delayed or blocked votes on key nominations, including district and circuit court judges, key regulators, and foreign policy and national security officials,” she said in a report. “Senate Republicans’ record of obstruction under President Obama is unique in both its scope and intensity.”


I don't know why she's complaining. The Republicans have folded like a house of cards on nearly every other issue...


----------



## Macfury

She thought it was a good idea when Joe Biden favoured obstruction.



FeXL said:


> Fauxcahontas offended because the Republicans won't play along. 'Cause I'm sure if the shoe were on the other foot, she's be bending over backwards to cooperate...
> 
> Elizabeth Warren lambastes Senate Republicans for ‘obstruction’ of judges
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why she's complaining. The Republicans have folded like a house of cards on nearly every other issue...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> She thought it was a good idea when Joe Biden favoured obstruction.


Exactly. Curious, that...


----------



## SINC

Yep . . .


----------



## FeXL

Before the "Paper of Record" became Progressive-ized...

New York Times 1996: “Our First Lady… is a Congenital Liar”



> Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady — a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation — *is a congenital liar.*


M'bold.

And yet, the left doesn't seem to care. Their hate for anything even marginally politically right is so great that they will spitefully vote for a liar...


----------



## FeXL

Fine. Hold her candidacy up until the FOIP results become available. You wanna see 75 years get condensed into a matter of weeks...

State Dept. Says It Would Need 75 Years to Release Clinton Emails



> _"Given the Department's current [Freedom of Information Act] (FOIA) workload and the complexity of these documents, it can process about 500 pages a month, meaning it would take approximately 16-and-2/3 years to complete the review of the Mills documents, 33-and-1/3 years to finish the review of the Sullivan documents, and 25 years to wrap up the review of the Kennedy documents -- or 75 years in total," the State Department said in the filing._​


----------



## FeXL

When the left does it, it's not illegal...

Laureate gave Bill Clinton $16.5 million, also gave student loans to non-citizens



> In view of the intense focus on the Trump University lawsuit by the MSM and lack of inquiry by the same MSM on Laureate Education, it seemed worthwhile to look at Laureate-affiliated schools of higher education located in the U.S., Latin America, and elsewhere. Bill Clinton served as honorary chancellor for Laureate from 2010 until 2015, and he was paid $16.5 million. (Clinton Cash author Peter Schweizer points out a connection between Laureate chairman Douglas Becker and increased USAID funding to a non-profit Becker also chaired, the International Youth Federation, while Hillary was secretary of state.)
> 
> *Walden University is an affiliate of for-profit Laureate Education, and it has a history of problems.*
> 
> An audit by the Department of Education (DOE) shows that online Walden University gave over $300,000 in student loans to non-citizens (which is against the law) from 2005 to 2008. More recently, Walden ran afoul of the handling of student loan funds for students who had withdrawn, and the DOE is now taking a closer look at Walden. Any adverse decisions by the DOE against Walden could seriously damage Walden’s funding model of relying heavily on student loans for revenue. Overall, Laureate’s U.S. institutions received $461 million in student loan revenue in calendar year 2014.
> 
> Walden University is also subject to a class action lawsuit according to SEC filings


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Robbing Zika research to pay the UN climate fund...

Obama Raided $500M for Zika to Finance UN’s Green Climate Fund



> Last week, the Senate passed legislation to address and prevent the spread of the Zika virus. However, the Senate failed to pay for it, and instead approved a $1.1 billion “emergency” spending supplemental bill that is not subject to the budgetary caps that were agreed to last year.
> 
> While congressional inattention to the budget crisis is inexcusable, it is even more disturbing that the Obama administration already has the authority to pay for a Zika response from existing agency budgets, but chose not to.


Hey, a billion here, a billion there...


----------



## FeXL

Obamaphone Fraud? Ya don't say...

Regulator Warns of Hundreds of Millions in ‘Obamaphone’ Fraud



> Vulnerabilities in a federal cell phone subsidy program could be exposing taxpayers to hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud, a leading regulator revealed on Wednesday.
> 
> *Cell phone carriers that participate in the Lifeline program, which subsidizes cell phone service for low-income Americans, have bypassed fraud safeguards for millions of their customers, Federal Communications Commissioner Ajit Pai revealed.*
> 
> Those customers have claimed $476 million per year in subsidies that bypassed a single safeguard designed to reduce duplicate subsidies for a single customer, Pai said in a letter to Lifeline administrators, raising concerns about the scale of fraud in the program.
> 
> The FCC is currently relying on the carriers themselves to verify that Lifeline customers are not receiving more than one subsidy from the program. But the commission leaves it entirely up to the carriers to verify that information.
> 
> “The carrier essentially, on its own say-so, tells the FCC … ‘we pinky swear that this is a legitimate subscriber,’” Pai explained to reporters in a Wednesday briefing.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Take a look at the $12,495 Armani jacket Hillary wore while speaking about income inequality



> Hillary Clinton has had to modify much of her campaign message this primary season to accommodate Socialist Bernie Sanders and his rabid, class-warfare, “income inequality” rhetoric. But she hasn’t changed her rich taste in clothing.
> 
> According to multiple reports, while giving a victory speech after the New York primary in April, the former Secretary of State, wore a designer jacket from Georgio Armani valued at $12,495.


More:



> That night in April, while wearing a jacket worth 5 figures, the presumptive Democratic Party’s nominee, who once claimed to be “dead broke” even though she and her husband, the former President were raking in millions of dollars, spoke in great detail about *understanding the hardships Americans are suffering* after 7 years of a Democrat in the White House


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> The iron...


 *....y* (unless you're complaining of wrinkles)

Completely agree, particularly in the context of a speech on income inequality.

Mind you, I've never seen anyone give Trump, et al., grief about how much their suits cost....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Mind you, I've never seen anyone give Trump, et al., grief about how much their suits cost....


Trump is not complaining about income equality. He's saying rank and file citizens earn too little... to afford a beautiful Trump tie.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump is not complaining about income equality. He's saying rank and file citizens earn too little... to afford a beautiful Trump tie.


A made in China tie .................... oops. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


>


The harder the Democrats push memes like that, the bigger Trump's margin of victory will be.

If they really want a chance to beat him, they need to ignore the circus, and act as if he was a serious candidate.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> The harder the Democrats push memes like that, the bigger Trump's margin of victory will be.
> 
> If they really want a chance to beat him, they need to ignore the circus, and act as if he was a serious candidate.


Sadly, he is not a serious candidate.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> The harder the Democrats push memes like that, the bigger Trump's margin of victory will be.
> 
> If they really want a chance to beat him, they need to ignore the circus, and act as if he was a serious candidate.


Amazing isn't it?


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, he is not a serious candidate.



Nope, he just plays the game because he doesn't want to be loser. And if he loses, it will be YUUUGE!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Amazing isn't it?


Amen, Brother. I find it amazing that Trump was able to whittle down the other 16 Republican candidates during the primary season. Luckily, he shall meet his match with Clinton and the Democratic party. Praise the Lord, and pass the ice cream. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Nope, he just plays the game because he doesn't want to be loser. And if he loses, it will be YUUUGE!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:

Are you making fun of my New York City accent???????????? 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waeXBCUkuL8[/ame]

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, he is not a serious candidate.


If President Trump is what you really want, just keep saying that.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> If President Trump is what you really want, just keep saying that.


Having watched the Obama amateur act on stage for 8 years, you are--of course--supposed to accept that he was a "serious" president.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> If President Trump is what you really want, just keep saying that.


Well, I wanted to "feel the Bern", but Clinton will make a good president. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> .... Clinton will make a good president...


I must respectfully disagree.... depending on your definition of "good".

There may be some socially progressive activity, but Clinton's views on the USA's right to continue waging war the world over, interfering politically in any country that doesn't toe the line, and her ties to global financial institutions present a picture not much different from any other President who has gone before her.

It is unfortunate that so many are so enthralled with the idea of finally having a female President, that it matters little the moral character of the candidate.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> It is unfortunate that so many are so enthralled with the idea of finally having a female President, that it matters little the moral character of the candidate.


This. In spades.


----------



## CubaMark

Green Party's Jill Stein on the Feminist Case Against Hillary Clinton | Rolling Stone


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


>



That's about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Good one.............. and so very true.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Good one.............. and so very true.



I think you want "Unemployment Insurance" on that last one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I think you want "Unemployment Insurance" on that last one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK, but I did not make up that photo, so take it up with the creator. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> OK, but I did not make up that photo, so take it up with the creator. Paix, mon ami.



I'd take up all kinds of the things with the Creator, if I could. The size of the Adam's apple, for instance. Or perhaps I should take that up with Adam; couldn't he have taken a smaller bite like Eve did?

Paix aussi, mon ami. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Good one.............. and so very true.


I would think "blame a Democrat" is more apropos. You should also put the $20 trillion deficit on there--that's on Barack!


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I'd take up all kinds of the things with the Creator, if I could. The size of the Adam's apple, for instance. Or perhaps I should take that up with Adam; couldn't he have taken a smaller bite like Eve did?
> 
> Paix aussi, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Take care, mon ami, who you mock.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would think "blame a Democrat" is more apropos. You should also put the $20 trillion deficit on there--that's on Barack!


Sorry ............ it is "Thank a Democrat" ........ you never had to live on Social Security alone, as my mother did, and blessed each check that came in each month. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry ............ it is "Thank a Democrat" ........ you never had to live on Social Security alone, as my mother did, and blessed each check that came in each month. Paix, mon ami.


I have never opposed support for the needy, I have always opposed bloated programs with improper means testing that eat up most of the federal budget.


----------



## fjnmusic

I imagine some bleeding heart libertarian will find a way to defend this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Do some research, fjn--it will clear your mind. 

But if you really need to pass along a meme, at least correct the spelling.



fjnmusic said:


> I imagine some bleeding heart libertarian will find a way to defend this.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Do some research, fjn--it will clear your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> But if you really need to pass along a meme, at least correct the spelling.



And what do you perceive has been misspelled?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

EhMac is a Canadian site!



fjnmusic said:


> And what do you perceive has been misspelled?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> EhMac is a Canadian site!




Seriously dude. You're bothered by the spelling of "behaviour"? In a thread about American politics? Clearly you need some outside interests. How about commenting on whether you feel Trump's mockery of a man with a disability was fair game or not, instead of trying to redirect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Trump said he did not know the reporter and that he only knew of him through written reports where the reporter appeared to be pretending that he could not recall what he had actually written. Trump was doing a pantomime of someone who was groveling and avoiding responsibility--and that's fair game.



fjnmusic said:


> Seriously dude. You're bothered by the spelling of "behaviour"? In a thread about American politics? Clearly you need some outside interests. How about commenting on whether you feel Trump's mockery of a man with a disability was fair game or not, instead of trying to redirect.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Trump said he did not know the reporter and that he only knew of him through written reports where the reporter appeared to be pretending that he could not recall what he had actually written. Trump was doing a pantomime of someone who was groveling and avoiding responsibility--and that's fair game.




Okay, you keep telling yourself that. Trump also admitted he had met the man before and would have noticed the disability. Even if the man didn't have a disability, it's a pretty shoddy way to mimic a person. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Trump only says that the reporter _might_ have interviewed him 30 years ago--because most of New York media was interviewing him--but he had no recollection of it.



fjnmusic said:


> Okay, you keep telling yourself that. Trump also admitted he had met the man before and would have noticed the disability. Even if the man didn't have a disability, it's a pretty shoddy way to mimic a person.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I imagine some bleeding heart libertarian will find a way to defend this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Be nice, Frank. I am sure that Macfury likes Trump, but not this sort of behavior. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

California Landslide Possible for Sanders After Votes Counted, Election Activists Sue Media for Fraud Complicity


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> California Landslide Possible for Sanders After Votes Counted, Election Activists Sue Media for Fraud Complicity



Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trump only says that the reporter _might_ have interviewed him 30 years ago--because most of New York media was interviewing him--but he had no recollection of it.


There ya go again. Using facts in a discussion with an unarmed man... tptptptp


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Senators Seek to Stop $2.5 Billion Taxpayer-Funded Obamacare Bailout



> A delegation of leading senators are seeking to stop the Obama administration from providing some health insurers with a $2.5 billion taxpayer-funded bailout under a provision in the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, according to congressional communication exclusively obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
> 
> The senators are petitioning their colleagues on key committees to ensure that U.S. taxpayers will not have to foot the bill for excess costs incurred by insurance companies selling low-cost coverage under the Obamacare program, according to the letter, which lambasts the healthcare program for burdening middle- and lower-class families.


$2.5 billion? Chump change lost in a sea of red ink.


----------



## Dr.G.

If Putin was really Trump's friend, he would give him this info. It could be helpful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ml?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-exclusive%2Bnational


----------



## FeXL

So, Barry has endorsed Bill's Wife. Of course, this will have no, as in zero, effect on her FBI investigation...

White House Spokesman: Obama’s Support For Hillary Clinton Won’t Impact FBI Investigation



> White House press secretary Josh Earnest said that the FBI investigation into Clinton’s email practices would be “conducted independent of any political interference.” He indicated that Obama was comfortable endorsing Clinton knowing that career law enforcement officials would not be swayed by his political decision.


ROTFLMAO...

Related:

WH Denies Endorsement Will Intimidate FBI Investigators



> White House press secretary Josh Earnest insisted that President Obama's endorsement of Hillary Clinton will not "sway" the ongoing FBI investigation into Clinton.
> 
> The statement came after Obama released a video endorsing Clinton for president of the United States.


However,



> Later this afternoon, according to the White House, Obama is meeting with the attorney general. *The meeting is "closed press."*


M'bold.

D'oh!!!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> If Putin was really Trump's friend, he would give him this info. It could be helpful.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ml?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-exclusive%2Bnational


The DNC was simply operating as Hillary did as Secretary of State--without proper security.


----------



## FeXL

On Barry's proposed oil tax.

Report: Obama's oil tax would mean huge tax hike for gasoline



> The Obama administration's proposed $10.25 tax on each barrel of crude oil produced in the United States would be one of the biggest tax increases on gasoline in history, a report released Thursday showed.
> 
> ...
> 
> The tax could add between 20-25 cents per gallon, and the report shows that one-time increase would be the largest increase in the gas tax since it was passed in 1932.
> 
> ...
> 
> *According to the report, the $10.25 tax on each barrel of oil would slow growth by about $320 billion over the next 10 years if it became law.*


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

Barry don't care...



FeXL said:


> On Barry's proposed oil tax.
> 
> Report: Obama's oil tax would mean huge tax hike for gasoline
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

It was a year ago today that Trump declared he was running for the presidency. What a year .............. who would have thought he would be the Republican nominee??????????????????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It was a year ago today that Trump declared he was running for the presidency. What a year .............. who would have thought he would be the Republican nominee??????????????????


It's certainly been my good fortune to have witnessed it!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's certainly been my good fortune to have witnessed it!


The Libertarian Party and Johnston are at 9% in the polls. Hopefully, he will have some impact upon the election. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> What a year .............. who would have thought he would be the Republican nominee??????????????????


Me.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Me.


You win the cigar, mon ami. Kudos.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> It was a year ago today that Trump declared he was running for the presidency. What a year .............. who would have thought he would be the Republican nominee??????????????????



The world is watching. The USA should not be proud of these developments, and the world will judge them by the outcome of this race and the way the bigot had carried himself thus far. And this is the courtship time. This is Trump being nice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> The world is watching. The USA should not be proud of these developments, and the world will judge them by the outcome of this race and the way the bigot had carried himself thus far. And this is the courtship time. This is Trump being nice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I "felt the Bern", but will be voting for Clinton in Georgia. :clap:


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> This is Trump being nice.


And Hillary being Hillary. She is a lying, conniving bi---, er suffice to say bad person at best. Either way, America loses if they choose either one as their leader.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> I "felt the Bern", but will be voting for Clinton in Georgia. :clap:




Good choice, amigo. Trump is too much of a loose wing nut to be granted that kind of power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Good choice, amigo. Trump is too much of a loose wing nut to be granted that kind of power.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I voted for Sanders in the GA, primary, but he got swamped. Sill, I do NOT want to see Trump in the presidency. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I really want to see Trump elected president. Eight years of that weakling Obama have been too much for me.

fjn, I see you as a sort of moral compass--if Trump offends you, he would probably be best for his country.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I really want to see Trump elected president. Eight years of that weakling Obama have been too much for me.


Eight years of a progressive Pres. Obama needs to be continued with a Sanders presidency ................. but I will accept Pres. Clinton. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

*The neoconservative destruction of Kansas....* (emphasis added)

*Kansas Isn't Home Anymore... *

I’ve made the decision. As of July, I have decided that Pathfinder Health Innovations will be moving our corporate office from Kansas to Missouri.

* * *​
...this is a personal blog post, reflecting my views on the performance of the Kansas government, and specifically Governor Brownback. It should not be interpreted as the views of the company, our investors or employees other than me.

In recent years, Kansas has become a battleground for conservative ideals. Traditionally, Kansas was a moderate state, with the governorship switching every other election between Democratic and Republican governors. But the election of hyper-conservative Sam Brownback as governor heralded *a new age of far right wing ideology*.

It wasn’t just that Brownback was conservative; it was that he is seen as *a tool of the Koch brothers and ALEC*, a conservative think tank and lobbying organization. Brownback used his influence and funding to eliminate “moderate” republicans from the Kansas legislature and install his hand-picked conservative cronies. He couldn’t do the same with the Kansas Supreme Court, which has ruled a number of the conservative legislature’s laws as unconstitutional, so Brownback’s administration decided to threaten to cut off funding to the court system and is actively pursuing legislation to impeach the Supreme Court.

*Kansas has become a test center of “trickle down” economics*, espoused by economist Arthur Laffer during the Reagan years. Nowhere has there been as thorough an implementation of Laffer’s policy recommendations… and *nowhere has there been as dramatic a failure of government*.

Under Brownback’s direction, Kansas implemented an *unprecedented tax cut *in 2012, eliminating taxes for LLCs and professional firms (for full disclosure, PHI is a C Corporation) and making the largest cuts in the highest tax brackets. 

He shifted taxes to create a heavier burden on property and sales taxes, which typically represent a larger burden on lower income brackets. *Brownback declared that this tax cut would be a “shot of adrenaline” for the Kansas economy, but the reality is that the tax cuts have had the opposite effect.* Kansas lags neighboring states in job growth. For 11 of the last 12 months, Kansas has dramatically missed revenue targets, falling deeper in debt and facing another round of degraded bond ratings.​
(Full post at: Pathfinder Health Innovations)


----------



## FeXL

Apparently this person has never heard of Venezuela...



CubaMark said:


> *nowhere has there been as dramatic a failure of government*.​


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Apparently this person has never heard of Venezuela...


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And?



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## FeXL

Oh, look! :love2: More gov't supported food guidelines!!!

Modern Scientific Controversies Part 1: The Salt Wars



> _Are_ the health advantages of population-wide dietary salt reduction beyond dispute?
> 
> Hardly. The latest salvo fired in what has long been called The Salt Wars1 was published last month, on 20 May 2016. A huge international review study [paywalled] led by Professor Andrew Mente, PhD, the title of which begins with _“Associations of urinary sodium excretion with cardiovascular events….”_, in one of the world’s leading medical journals, The Lancet. The study had a cohort of 133,000 individuals across 49 countries and was undertaken and written by 29 internationally recognized researchers, all PhDs and/or MDs. Their published interpretation of its findings is:
> 
> _“Interpretation: Compared with moderate sodium intake, high sodium intake is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular events and death in hypertensive populations (no association in normotensive population), while the association of low sodium intake with increased risk of cardiovascular events and death is observed in those with or without hypertension. These data suggest that lowering sodium intake is best targeted at populations with hypertension who consume high sodium diets.” _​


----------



## FeXL

I don't know how many of you have been following this. The Coles notes version is that Hulk Hogan sued Gawker for invasion of privacy & won a $140 million ruling. Now Gawker is declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying the fine.

Gawker Is Bankrupt, And Now Liberals Are Pretending To Care About Free Speech



> The suit was funded by libertarian billionaire Peter Thiel, which, according to many liberals, makes this the most vital First Amendment case of our lifetime.
> 
> *In a spasm of hypocrisy, many of the same people who don’t believe corporations deserve constitutional rights; who think allowing the state to ban political movies and books is a fine idea; who are constantly telling us how important the courts are in realizing a just society; who are in the pocket of the trial lawyer lobby; and who have achieved almost every major political victory through third-party-funded court battles (sometimes taxpayer-funded) now worry about slippery slopes because a libertarian has funded a successful lawsuit.*


Curious, idn't it...


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> You win the cigar, mon ami. Kudos.


Thank you, mon ami. May I have a Cohiba (the Cuban one), freshly rolled on the thighs of a young maiden?


----------



## Macfury

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out! Guess there weren't enough corporate goodies trickling his way from government.

After eight years of economic malaise through Obama, Brownback is supposed to turn Kansas around in three.... amazing.



CubaMark said:


> *The neoconservative destruction of Kansas....* (emphasis added)
> 
> *Kansas Isn't Home Anymore... *
> 
> I’ve made the decision. As of July, I have decided that Pathfinder Health Innovations will be moving our corporate office from Kansas to Missouri.
> 
> * * *​
> ...this is a personal blog post, reflecting my views on the performance of the Kansas government, and specifically Governor Brownback. It should not be interpreted as the views of the company, our investors or employees other than me.
> 
> In recent years, Kansas has become a battleground for conservative ideals. Traditionally, Kansas was a moderate state, with the governorship switching every other election between Democratic and Republican governors. But the election of hyper-conservative Sam Brownback as governor heralded *a new age of far right wing ideology*.
> 
> It wasn’t just that Brownback was conservative; it was that he is seen as *a tool of the Koch brothers and ALEC*, a conservative think tank and lobbying organization. Brownback used his influence and funding to eliminate “moderate” republicans from the Kansas legislature and install his hand-picked conservative cronies. He couldn’t do the same with the Kansas Supreme Court, which has ruled a number of the conservative legislature’s laws as unconstitutional, so Brownback’s administration decided to threaten to cut off funding to the court system and is actively pursuing legislation to impeach the Supreme Court.
> 
> *Kansas has become a test center of “trickle down” economics*, espoused by economist Arthur Laffer during the Reagan years. Nowhere has there been as thorough an implementation of Laffer’s policy recommendations… and *nowhere has there been as dramatic a failure of government*.
> 
> Under Brownback’s direction, Kansas implemented an *unprecedented tax cut *in 2012, eliminating taxes for LLCs and professional firms (for full disclosure, PHI is a C Corporation) and making the largest cuts in the highest tax brackets.
> 
> He shifted taxes to create a heavier burden on property and sales taxes, which typically represent a larger burden on lower income brackets. *Brownback declared that this tax cut would be a “shot of adrenaline” for the Kansas economy, but the reality is that the tax cuts have had the opposite effect.* Kansas lags neighboring states in job growth. For 11 of the last 12 months, Kansas has dramatically missed revenue targets, falling deeper in debt and facing another round of degraded bond ratings.​
> (Full post at: Pathfinder Health Innovations)


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Thank you, mon ami. May I have a Cohiba (the Cuban one), freshly rolled on the thighs of a young maiden?


:clap:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> After eight years of economic malaise through Obama, Brownback is supposed to turn Kansas around in three.... amazing.


Nice to see you giving the benefit of the doubt to politicians who inherit a dicey economy situation, MF. (*cough* Notley's NDP *cough*)

:heybaby:

:lmao:

beejacon


----------



## Macfury

I never expected Notley to turn it around. I just ask her not to beat the province about the head an neck while it's down, so it can get up on its own.



CubaMark said:


> Nice to see you giving the benefit of the doubt to politicians who inherit a dicey economy situation, MF. (*cough* Notley's NDP *cough*)
> 
> :heybaby:
> 
> :lmao:
> 
> beejacon


----------



## FeXL

Classy to the end.

Pro-Hillary website sells severed Trump head t-shirts



> I’ve repeatedly said that liberalism, at its core, is an ideology of rage and hate. Liberals prove that assertion correct on just about any given day. Now comes word that the far-left hate site Wonkette is selling t-shirts that feature Hillary Clinton holding Donald Trump’s severed head.


----------



## FeXL

Just a little FYI.

The Past Six Presidents Have All Used The Executive Power To Block Certain Classes Of Immigrants



> Donald Trump has received much flak from Democrats and Republicans alike for his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the U.S through executive authority. However, the past six presidents have all used the executive power to bar different classes of immigrants.
> 
> Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 states: “Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”
> 
> *President Barack Obama has used the authority this statute provides six times in his tenure.*


M'bold.

Funny, we never heard a peep out of the left about that...

Further:



> Law Professor Jan Ting of Temple University told The Daily Caller that “absolutely and without any doubt” does existing law allow Trump to restrict immigration of certain nationalities or religious groups.


----------



## FeXL

Did Trump steal Bill's Wife's script? 

Hillary’s “Racism” EXPOSED! Lefties Are Going To Be STUNNED…How Can They Support Her Now?



> This presidential candidate says America needs “physical barriers” to keep illegal aliens from crossing the southern border, and that Mexican illegals who commit crimes “should be obviously deported.”
> 
> And the candidate isn’t Donald Trump!
> 
> Someone has tracked down a speech Hillary Clinton gave ten years ago to the Council on Foreign Relations and what she said may shock Republicans and Democrats alike.
> 
> Independent Journal transcribes the video:
> 
> _Mexico is such an important problem [snip]… Mexican government’s policies are pushing migration north [snip]… There isn’t any sensible approach except to do what we need to do simultaneously—you know, secure our borders with technology, personnel, physical barriers [such as a “wall,” ed.] if necessary in some places. And we need to have tougher employer sanctions and we need to try to incentivize Mexico to do more [snip]… If they’ve committed transgressions of whatever kind, they should be obviously deported.”_​


Curious, idn't it...


----------



## FeXL

Of course she is.

Syrian Immigrant Who Said 9/11 ‘Changed The World For Good’ Is A Homeland Security Adviser



> One of the members of the Homeland Security Advisory Council’s (HSAC) Subcommittee on Countering Violent Extremism is a 25-year-old immigrant of Syrian heritage who said that the 9/11 attacks “changed the world for good” and has consistently disparaged America, free speech and white people on social media.


----------



## Macfury

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Hillary Clinton really is another Obama. Watch her screw up when the teleprompter instructs her to sigh:


----------



## Dr.G.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted July 2, 1964, and is still a landmark piece of legislation, even 52 years later to the day.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted July 2, 1964, and is still a landmark piece of legislation, even 52 years later to the day.



Thank you for a positive post Dr. G. God knows we hear enough of the other kind. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

There are a lot of positive posts here about Donald Trump!


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk Bill's Wife a bit.

On her private email server:

State Department Won’t Release Clinton Foundation Emails for 27 Months



> Department of Justice officials filed a motion in federal court late Wednesday seeking a 27-month delay in producing correspondence between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s four top aides and officials with the Clinton Foundation and Teneo Holdings, a closely allied public relations firm that Bill Clinton helped launch.


Wonder what they're hiding...

On Benghazi:

Clinton Responds To The Devastating Benghazi Report…In The Most Clintonian Way Possible!



> Like so many liberals, Hillary is an expert at changing the subject when the topic at hand threatens to upend their narrative, and with that, their power over others. She just did it again after the House Benghazi Committee released its final report.
> 
> Since the report’s conclusions were unflattering to say the least, Clinton’s team flew into damage control mode in the most craven way imaginable.
> 
> Conservative Tribune reports that, instead of addressing the report’s findings about her culpability in the 2012 murders of four Americans, “Clinton posted a link on her Facebook account that purported to explain three actions America should take to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists. (…)_
> 
> The report concluded that the administration made pathetic excuses for the attack and continues to do so. Clinton doesn’t have enough character to address that or the fact that the government failed the Americans in Libya by putting politics first.
> 
> It’s pitiful, but unfortunately not surprising that Clinton, who is under investigation by the FBI for irresponsibly using a private email server from which she sent thousands of messages that contained classified information and put the nation’s security at risk, would deflect to taking a swipe at the Second Amendment_​.


More:

Hillary’s 'Serious Lack of Competence' Cost Lives at Benghazi



> Former CIA officer D. W. Wilber noted in The Hill Monday that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s actions leading up to the Benghazi attack, and *the Obama administration’s foreign policy in Libya as a whole were “lunacy on a grand scale”*: “Additional security was denied even though intelligence reports clearly indicated the presence in Libya of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups hostile to the United States.” Hillary’s “trust in the various militia factions to set aside their longstanding differences and establish a governing body in the war torn country illustrates another amateur mistake.” But it wasn’t. It was a professional mistake.


M'bold.

Yep.

But, hey, Bill's taking care of it for her in a private meeting with AG Lynch in a jet on the tarmac, under the guise of "just talking about our families & such..." Riiiiight..

AG Loretta Lynch Meets Privately With Bill Clinton Amid Email Probe



> Attorney General Loretta Lynch met privately with Bill Clinton in Phoenix, Ariz. Tuesday afternoon amid the federal government’s ongoing probe into Hillary Clinton’s unsecured email server.
> 
> Lynch met with the former president for 30 minutes aboard a government-owned private jet at Sky Harbor International Airport, local network ABC15 reported.
> 
> Lynch, who will have the final legal authority on any indictments concerning Clinton and her former State Department aides, only confirmed the unannounced meeting after she was pressed by the Arizona news station.


For more on that, see the cartoon below.

And, a meeting that I hope sends her directly to jail:

Hillary Clinton Scheduled To Meet With FBI On Saturday




> Former Sec. of State Hillary Clinton is scheduled to meet Saturday with the FBI, a source close to the investigation into her private email server tells The Daily Caller.
> 
> The source went on to suggest the interview may take place at her Washington, D.C. home.
> 
> The bureau’s interview with the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee is believed to be the final step in its investigation into the potential mishandling of classified information on Clinton’s private email server.


This, the shining Democratic nominee for POTUS. You should all be ashamed...


----------



## fjnmusic

I think the Donald has more serious character flaws than Hillary. 



> Why The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump Should Not Be Ignored
> 
> 2 days ago | Updated 23 hours ago
> 
> Lisa Bloom Legal analyst for NBC News and Avvo, attorney and bestselling author
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An anonymous “Jane Doe” filed a federal lawsuit against GOP presumptive nominee Donald Trump last week, accusing him of raping her in 1994 when she was thirteen years old. The mainstream media ignored the filing.
> 
> If the Bill Cosby case has taught us anything, it is to not disregard rape cases against famous men. Serious journalists have publicly apologized for turning a blind eye to the Cosby accusers for over a decade, notwithstanding the large number of women who had come forward with credible claims. And now history is repeating itself.
> 
> In covering a story, a media outlet is not finding guilt. It is simply reporting the news that a lawsuit has been filed against Mr. Trump, and ideally putting the complaint in context. Unproven allegations are just that - unproven, and should be identified that way. (Mr. Trump’s lawyer says the charges are “categorically untrue, completely fabricated and politically motivated.”) Proof comes later, at trial. But the November election will come well before any trial. And while Mr. Trump is presumed innocent, we are permitted - no, we are obligated — to analyze the case’s viability now.
> 
> No outsider can say whether Mr. Trump is innocent or guilty of these new rape charges. But we can look at his record, analyze the court filings here, and make a determination as to credibility - whether the allegations are believable enough for us to take them seriously and investigate them, keeping in mind his denial and reporting new facts as they develop.
> 
> 
> I have done that. And the answer is a clear “yes.” These allegations are credible. They ought not be ignored. Mainstream media, I’m looking at you.
> 
> 1. Consider the Context: Mr. Trump’s Overt, Even Proud Misogyny
> 
> The rape case must be viewed through the lens of Mr. Trump’s current, longstanding and well documented contempt for women. Men who objectify women are more likely to become perpetrators of sexual violence, just as one with a long history of overtly racist comments is more likely to commit a hate crime.
> 
> Mr. Trump has relished calling women “dogs,” “slobs” and “pigs,” and cyberstalked and derided journalist Megyn Kelly for having the temerity to ask him to defend his own words. He threw out the most misogynist of attacks, attempting to undermine her professionalism by accusing her of menstruating. He’s cruelly ridiculed the appearance of a female opponent (Carly Fiorina) and an opponent’s wife (Heidi Cruz). His campaign even openly acknowledged that it disqualified all women for consideration as his vice-president.
> 
> Mr. Trump has a long history of debasing women he’s worked with, crossing the line on a regular basis. He’s taken lifelong joy in objectifying women, including his proclamation: “Women, you have to treat ‘em like ****.”
> 
> This cannot be ignored. Decades of abusive language does not make him a rapist. But it does show us who the man is: a callous, meanspirited misogynist who no sane person would leave alone with her daughter. As Dr. Maya Angelou said, “When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.”
> 
> 2. More context: two prior sexual assault court claims have been made against Mr. Trump
> 
> But Mr. Trump has been accused of worse than just misogynist language. Two prior women have accused Mr. Trump, in court documents, of actual or attempted sexual assault. (Mr. Trump denies all the allegations.) ......


Read more here:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10619944.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Good! Now, if they would just implement them in the other 54 states...

Judge upholds voter citizenship checks



> Kansas, Alabama and Georgia can demand their residents submit proof of citizenship before signing up to vote even if they’re using the federal government’s registration forms, a judge said Wednesday, delivering a win to states concerned about voter fraud.
> 
> The League of Women Voters and the Obama administration had tried to halt the practice, arguing that federal law doesn’t require an extensive citizenship check when people register to vote, and saying the three states were imposing an extra burden on voters.
> 
> But Judge Richard J. Leon said that while it may be an inconvenience to require proof of citizenship, and voter registration drives may have to do more work to get folks signed up, it’s not an insurmountable burden — and certainly less so than trying to explain Obamacare.


----------



## FeXL

Further fallout from the Charlie Foxtrot and related to the Colour Me Surprised department...

Obamacare Insurers Are Looking for a Taxpayer Bailout



> Insurers helped cheerlead the creation of Obamacare, with plenty of encouragement – and pressure – from Democrats and the Obama administration. As long as the Affordable Care Act included an individual mandate that forced Americans to buy its product, insurers offered political cover for the government takeover of the individual-plan marketplaces. With the prospect of tens of millions of new customers forced into the market for comprehensive health-insurance plans, whether they needed that coverage or not, underwriters saw potential for a massive windfall of profits.
> 
> Six years later, those dreams have failed to materialize. *Now some insurers want taxpayers to provide them the profits to which they feel entitled -- not through superior products and services, but through lawsuits.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

What they need to do if these liars & cheats refuse to respond is to shut down everything, absolutely everything, in the federal gov't. Pretty damn quick the hue & cry would force somebody to talk & proceedings could move forward. They're going to act like recalcitrant, spoiled brats, treat 'em that same way...


Standoff! Obama refuses to answer Benghazi committee’s questions: I don’t take demands from Congress



> Obama’s attorney issued a statement on the issue.
> 
> “If the president were to answer your questions, his response would suggest that Congress has the unilateral power to demand answers from the president.”
> 
> *Demanding answers is called “checks and balances” among the three branches of government.*


M'bold.

Ed Zachery.

More:



> Fox Business Network’s Lou Dobbs commented on the lack of an official White House statement of the events surrounding the terror attack after “almost four years.”
> 
> “That, in and of itself, is damning,” he said.


Yep.


----------



## CubaMark

Why The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump Should Not Be Ignored


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Why The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump Should Not Be Ignored


Agreed--you'll find Democrat operatives behind it!


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Thank you for a positive post Dr. G. God knows we hear enough of the other kind.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, it was a major piece of legislation. Not sure if JFK could have gotten it passed in his second term, but it is amazing that LBJ had the courage and the strength with Congress to get it passed. Sadly, his Great Society went by the wayside once America got entangled in Vietnam.


----------



## FeXL

_If_ there are legitimate issues here that can be backed up with facts & evidence then, yes, I would agree.

However, if this is nothing more than idle speculation, false accusations, character assassination, a witch hunt, etc., from not only the left but the disenchanted right in an effort to detract from his campaign, then I can assume you'll be just as critical of Bill's Wife's already proven, not speculated, flaws. Right?

And, just to speculate a bit myself, NBC? Hardly the most reputable news source on the planet to begin with. In addition, as far as his "attacks" on Megyn Kelly, there is much more to the story than what is noted in the article. Plus, he has many women working for him who appear to be satisfied with his employment. Finally, it doesn't matter how many "prior women" have _accused_ him of sexual assault. If there have been no convictions it means squat.

I'll wait for this to play out.



fjnmusic said:


> I think the Donald has more serious character flaws than Hillary.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, it was a major piece of legislation. Not sure if JFK could have gotten it passed in his second term, but it is amazing that LBJ had the courage and the strength with Congress to get it passed. Sadly, his Great Society went by the wayside once America got entangled in Vietnam.



True, true. Unfortunately, the real visionaries only come around once in a long while and they change the world. Meanwhile, there's.....Trump. And Clinton. Sanders is the kind of Hope and Positive Force America needs right now. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> _If_ there are legitimate issues here that can be backed up with facts & evidence then, yes, I would agree.
> 
> 
> 
> However, if this is nothing more than idle speculation, false accusations, character assassination, a witch hunt, etc., from not only the left but the disenchanted right in an effort to detract from his campaign, then I can assume you'll be just as critical of Bill's Wife's already proven, not speculated, flaws. Right?
> 
> 
> 
> And, just to speculate a bit myself, NBC? Hardly the most reputable news source on the planet to begin with. In addition, as far as his "attacks" on Megyn Kelly, there is much more to the story than what is noted in the article. Plus, he has many women working for him who appear to be satisfied with his employment. Finally, it doesn't matter how many "prior women" have _accused_ him of sexual assault. If there have been no convictions it means squat.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll wait for this to play out.



Now that was a decent response. Thank you for that. I'm not saying I agree with you, but you provide some good points. If the woman's testimony is true, and she was 13 at the time, and the Donald's partner at the time is indeed a Level 3 sex offender as described—then I think the Donald, like the Cosby, has some 'splainin' to do. Certainly doesn't appear to be Presidential material. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You do realize that Jeffrey Epstein is the same pedophile who ran the Lolita Express where guests such as Bill Clinton were ferried to an island populated by underage girls? He also donated money to Hillary's Clinton Foundation. Why is this story only now on your radar? Because a Republican is named?



fjnmusic said:


> Now that was a decent response. Thank you for that. I'm not saying I agree with you, but you provide some good points. If the woman's testimony is true, and she was 13 at the time, and the Donald's partner at the time is indeed a Level 3 sex offender as described—then I think the Donald, like the Cosby, has some 'splainin' to do. Certainly doesn't appear to be Presidential material.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> True, true. Unfortunately, the real visionaries only come around once in a long while and they change the world. Meanwhile, there's.....Trump. And Clinton. Sanders is the kind of Hope and Positive Force America needs right now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sad, but all too true. While I supported Sanders, I shall vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia. She does not have the progressive "fire" of Sanders, but I can vote for her with a clear conscience. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I also have a clear conscience about you voting for Hillary, Dr. G.--since I never encouraged you to do so!


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sad, but all too true. While I supported Sanders, I shall vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia. She does not have the progressive "fire" of Sanders, but I can vote for her with a clear conscience. Paix, mon ami.



I think the problem in the USA is that they don't even know what they need right now. But I know that it isn't more hate, more racism and more xenophobia, all qualities that Trump excels at. I can't say Hillary is it either, but given the alternatives, she is a better choice than Trump ten times out of ten. Thing is, what we're seeing know is Trump during the courtship ritual. This is Trump being NICE. *shudder*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I also have a clear conscience about you voting for Hillary, Dr. G.--since I never encouraged you to do so!


:lmao: Merci, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I think the problem in the USA is that they don't even know what they need right now. But I know that it isn't more hate, more racism and more xenophobia, all qualities that Trump excels at. I can't say Hillary is it either, but given the alternatives, she is a better choice than Trump ten times out of ten. Thing is, what we're seeing know is Trump during the courtship ritual. This is Trump being NICE. *shudder*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Valid points, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

About half the population does: not another donator-kowtowing, ass-kissing, candy-stealing, stinking, elitist politician...



fjnmusic said:


> I think the problem in the USA is that they don't even know what they need right now.


----------



## FeXL

One hand washes the other...

Report: Hillary Is Considering Keeping Loretta Lynch As Attorney General



> Hillary Clinton is considering retaining Loretta Lynch as Attorney General if she wins the presidency, according to a report from The New York Times.
> 
> Picking Lynch as a holdover from the Obama administration would help Clinton’s stated goal of making her cabinet gender-equal. But *the choice would likely prove controversial given that Lynch is the ultimate arbiter in the Justice Department’s investigation into the potential mishandling of classified information on Clinton’s private email server.
> 
> Concerns over conflicts of interest reached new heights last week after Lynch, the first black female AG, met in secret with Bill Clinton at Phoenix’s international airport.*


M'bold.

Conflict of interest? Ya THINK? :yikes:


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Why would voting for Hillary be like "Russian Roulette"? The premise of the gag fails miserably, so the pay-off doesn't work.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

I'm putting this into the American Political thread because I don't want to hear the whiny Progs complain that the accused haven't been proven to be immigrants. Yet. On that note, I'm waiting for further information.

Child Sexual Assault Cover-Up in Idaho



> The recent sexual assault of a *five-year-old girl* in Twin Falls, Idaho, and the reaction by public officials and the media amounting to a cover-up dramatically illustrate, yet again, how the West battles against the harsh reality of unlimited Islamic immigration. The incident occurred June 2 at the Fawnbrook Apartments in Twin Falls where prosecutors allege a 5-year-old girl was sexually assaulted. Two juvenile suspects, boys, ages 14 and 10, were detained, charged and released. A third, a 7-year-old boy involved in the incident, was not charged. The boys are from Iraqi and Sudanese families, but it’s unclear if they are refugees or how long they’ve been in the community.


M'bold.

So, CM, how about these attackers? Do they deserve to fry, too? Or is your indignity reserved only for non-Muslims and non-Islams?

Jes' askin'...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, CM, how about these attackers? Do they deserve to fry, too? Or is your indignity reserved only for non-Muslims and non-Islams?


If they did the crime, they deserve an appropriate form of punishment. By your own post, they are children and as minors are deemed to be incapable of fully appreciating the repercussions of their actions.

So, no, I would not "fry" children, obviously.

You do tend to go to extremes, don't you?

*Update:* I hadn't noticed the source before. "American Thinker". Gawd. Another fear mongering website from the rabid right. Janet Levy, the "reporter" had to issue a correction for inaccurate details in their original version of the story, and they had to -begrudgingly, I'm sure- include a link to the Snopes article on the incident that dampens the flames you and your ilk have fanned.

It's as though you go out of your way to find something, anything, that can be twisted and blown out of proportion to support (?!) your worldview...

Fear, it's a terrible affliction upon certain kinds of minds....


----------



## Macfury

Why are you always mistaking wariness for fear? You inability to discern the difference between the two is a terrible affliction.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why are you always mistaking wariness for fear? You inability to discern the difference between the two is a terrible affliction.


_wariness_ is the position of a thoughtful mind.

What we are seeing - with the pavlovian reaction to anything remotely to do with Muslims being taken as a war of civilizations - is a _fear_ based on the absence of thought. 

It is mindless reaction: primal, unthinking, unconcerned for the repercussions of letting prejudice guide one's words and actions.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _wariness_ is the position of a thoughtful mind.
> 
> What we are seeing - with the pavlovian reaction to anything remotely to do with Muslims being taken as a war of civilizations - is a _fear_ based on the absence of thought.
> 
> It is mindless reaction: primal, unthinking, unconcerned for the repercussions of letting prejudice guide one's words and actions.


This is how we see you, CM, just with a different stimulus!

_It is mindless reaction: primal, unthinking, unconcerned for the repercussions of letting prejudice guide one's words and actions._


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Barry, while you were on your pulpit with Tres Hombres, preaching away, I spent a week stateside with the 'Burb, A/C turned up to eleven and getting 16 mpg.

Jes' thinking of you...

Obama Scolds Drivers of ‘Gas-Guzzlers’ During Remarks on Clean Energy



> President Obama scolded “those of you who are buying gas-guzzlers” during remarks about clean energy at the North American leaders’ summit in Canada on Wednesday.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump on Ted Cruz: "One hell of a competitor'" .......... which is far better than "Lyin' Ted". Wonder if he wants a VP who does not like him?

Trump meets with Ted Cruz, Reince Priebus - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders Is Expected to Endorse Hillary Clinton Next Week

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...t_tnt_20160707&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0


----------



## FeXL

So what's an appropriate form of punishment for children who rape children?



CubaMark said:


> If they did the crime, they deserve an appropriate form of punishment. By your own post, they are children and as minors are deemed to be incapable of fully appreciating the repercussions of their actions.


No, I don't. However, we do have one thing in common: children are sacrosanct. Thus, my gut response is let them fry. I can't think of an appropriate punishment for a minor.



CubaMark said:


> So, no, I would not "fry" children, obviously.
> 
> You do tend to go to extremes, don't you?


You do go on. Hyperbole, much? _American Thinker_ a rabid right fear mongering website? I should really provide you with a link to one of those someday. Your tender sensibilities wouldn't be able to handle it.



CubaMark said:


> *Update:* I hadn't noticed the source before. "American Thinker". Gawd. Another fear mongering website from the rabid right.


Me and my ilk? Well, can't say anything about my ilk 'cause I have no idea who the hell they are but all I'm doing is raising public awareness about the propensity of _Islamic_ followers, not limited to but including refugees, to rape and kill. Among a veritable host of actions not reconcilable with western society...



CubaMark said:


> ...dampens the flames you and your ilk have fanned.


Wilful ignorance is a far greater affliction, for every mind. Just keep your head in the sand. Apparently it's not as _scary_ down there...



CubaMark said:


> Fear, it's a terrible affliction upon certain kinds of minds....


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Bernie Sanders Is Expected to Endorse Hillary Clinton Next Week
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...t_tnt_20160707&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0


That's not going to cut it with the Bernie supporters who hoped to see Hillary Clinton jailed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's not going to cut it with the Bernie supporters who hoped to see Hillary Clinton jailed.


Well, they can vote to Trump and "reap the wind", or sit on their hands like many of Sen. Gene McCarthy's supporters did which resulted in the election of Richard Nixon. So, hopefully, those who were smart enough to support Sanders will see the wisdom of voting for Clinton. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

It's not the home building that offends them. Do a little research to see why Jimmy Carter has a bad reputation.


----------



## eMacMan

Mark Twain's original version, inspired by the invasion of the Philippines.
Battle Hymn of the Republic (Brought Down to Date) - Mark Twain - Raymond's Folk Song Page

Chad Mitchell's slight revision for Vietnam.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9C6fw9q1fo[/ame]


Sadly as true as ever today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mark Sanford: Trump defended articles of the Constitution that don't exist - CNNPolitics.com

Now they are just nitpicking about what Donald Trump said. When asked if he would protect Article I of the US Constitution, he replied "I want to protect Article I, Article II, Article XII -- go down the list." Granted, there are only 7 Articles in the US Constitution, but there were only 10 Commandments as well, so what are a few more articles??????????? Of course, after leaving the meeting, Trump going to a book store and buying a copy of The US Constitution for Dummies, did not help his case, but I think that it is time to stop listening to everything he says and focus upon what he meant to say. Who knows, when he says he want to make America "grate" again, he might be meaning banning all pre-shredded cheese and make everyone use a cheese grater once again???? We shall see.

U.S. Constitution For Dummies Cheat Sheet - For Dummies


----------



## Macfury

Would that hold up for all 57 states?



Dr.G. said:


> Mark Sanford: Trump defended articles of the Constitution that don't exist - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Now they are just nitpicking about what Donald Trump said. When asked if he would protect Article I of the US Constitution, he replied "I want to protect Article I, Article II, Article XII -- go down the list." Granted, there are only 7 Articles in the US Constitution, but there were only 10 Commandments as well, so what are a few more articles??????????? Of course, after leaving the meeting, Trump going to a book store and buying a copy of The US Constitution for Dummies, did not help his case, but I think that it is time to stop listening to everything he says and focus upon what he meant to say. Who knows, when he says he want to make America "grate" again, he might be meaning banning all pre-shredded cheese and make everyone use a cheese grater once again???? We shall see.
> 
> U.S. Constitution For Dummies Cheat Sheet - For Dummies


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Would that hold up for all 57 states?


Well, that would be your call, mon ami. In the book "The World According to Macfury", it is written that "I am the holder of the truth ............. what I say is the truth, and you must view it as such." So, if you want to say that the 12 articles in the US Constitution apply for the 57 states in the US, then it is a valid statement. Not sure what you are going to do about the two commonwealth states in the US, but I leave that up to you to determine. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Mark Twain's original version, inspired by the invasion of the Philippines.
> Battle Hymn of the Republic (Brought Down to Date) - Mark Twain - Raymond's Folk Song Page
> 
> Chad Mitchell's slight revision for Vietnam.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9C6fw9q1fo
> 
> 
> Sadly as true as ever today.


Well, as Curtis LaMay said, we need to "bomb the North Vietnamese back into the stone age." Maybe Donald Trump will do that to ISIS ................... or Canada???


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Would that hold up for all 57 states?


Well said. Democrats are allowed to misspeak, Republicans are not. 

It's pretty obvious what they both meant to say. A trip of words does not mean that you don't know your subject.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> Well said. Democrats are allowed to misspeak, Republicans are not.
> 
> It's pretty obvious what they both meant to say. A trip of words does not mean that you don't know your subject.


Careful, heavyall, since Macfury is a Libertarian ........... and always correct. As for Trump, we need to accept what he meant to say rather than what he says. In that Macfury is for Trump, then Trump must be correct. It is so much more simple living in this sort of orderly world. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Careful, heavyall, since Macfury is a Libertarian


So?



> ........... and always correct.


Not so.



> As for Trump, we need to accept what he meant to say rather than what he says.


We should always accept what anyone obviously meant over whatever they misspoke. Still fun to tease them though.



> In that Macfury is for Trump, then Trump must be correct. It is so much more simple living in this sort of orderly world. Paix, mon ami.


I have no idea what this means.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> So?
> 
> 
> 
> Not so.
> 
> 
> 
> We should always accept what anyone obviously meant over whatever they misspoke. Still fun to tease them though.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what this means.


Just accept what Macfury says without question. This way, you shall always be on the correct side of every issue. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump quips about winning in November -- and not serving as president - CNNPolitics.com

Reminds me of what Gen. Sherman said ............... "If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve."

"But now the presumptive Republican nominee is seemingly joking about the latest political speculation that a victory in November doesn't necessarily mean he'll take the oath of office to become president of the United States.

"I'll let you know how I feel about it after it happens," Trump told The New York Times in a story published Thursday while flashing what the newspaper described as a "mischievous smile." The paper said Trump was responding in an interview when presented with the scenario that he may win and decide not to serve. "


----------



## Macfury

Reminds me of a sense of humour.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Just accept what Macfury says without question. This way, you shall always be on the correct side of every issue. Paix, mon ami.


????


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Just accept what Macfury says without question. This way, you shall always be on the correct side of every issue. Paix, mon ami.



Indeed. Only The Macfury can save us. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Reminds me of a sense of humour.


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Yes, mon ami, throughout your book there is much humor ...... which helps to highlight the main points you are trying to provide to us all.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> ????


As it is written in "The World According to Macfury", "It is best not to question my wisdom. Such questions will only lead you astray of the path of being right." :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Indeed. Only The Macfury can save us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, there are many people of different religious faiths that might disagree with you, Frank. Still, for those of us here in ehMacLand, Macfury provides a light to keep us out of "the shadows of ignorance" (as he wrote in chapter 5). Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, there are many people of different religious faiths that might disagree with you, Frank. Still, for those of us here in ehMacLand, Macfury provides a light to keep us out of "the shadows of ignorance" (as he wrote in chapter 5). Paix, mon ami.



And with your spirit. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And with your spirit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Paix, mon ami. Excelsior.


----------



## Dr.G.

'Trump Bump' inquiries overwhelm Cape Breton tourism - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free of Trump .............


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury provides a light to keep us out of "the shadows of ignorance" (as he wrote in chapter 5).


*Reminds me of:*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Reminds me of:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Well, Macfury's stream of sensory data, just like that for Bob, guides his thoughts, as well as his understanding of his existence. So, would you not want to be guided by this "light maker"? Get with the program, mi amigo.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Reminds me of:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


CM, you should reread Ch.2 in "The World According to Macfury". Here, he disproves all concepts of Cartesian doubt as a form of methodological skepticism. Thus, it is far easier to accept his views and his logic than to try and question them, or even to question your own existence. As he wrote, "See the light ........... be the light ..... and believe in what is right." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Yep. As Odin Quincanon would say. 



> Donald Trump’s Star of David Tweet Came From a Fringe Website, a Report Says
> 
> By MATT FLEGENHEIMER and MAGGIE HABERMAN
> JULY 3, 2016
> 
> The Star of David imagery used in a Twitter post by Donald J. Trump this weekend had previously appeared on a message board known for anti-Semitism and white supremacy, as well as on a Twitter account with a history of racially charged comments, according to a report.
> 
> It is unclear where the Trump campaign discovered the image, which placed the shape of the Star of David beside a picture of Hillary Clinton with text that read, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” and a background of $100 bills. The post on Saturday by Mr. Trump prompted immediate criticism, fueling accusations that Mr. Trump was playing to stereotypes of Jews.
> 
> Later on Saturday, Mr. Trump deleted the post and added another image with a circle covering the star, though tips of the star were still visible. While Mr. Trump’s campaign has been silent on the episode, and did not respond to requests for comment, some of his defenders have argued that a six-pointed star is a symbol used by many sheriff’s departments....


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/0...p_1=362436&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's a star, snowflakes. Don't look for offense where none exists--there's enough serious stuff going on in the world today.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It's a star, snowflakes. Don't look for offense where none exists--there's enough serious stuff going on in the world today.



Snowflakes? What's that supposed to mean? It's a Star of David and was intended by the website that published it to be a Star Of David. Take off the blinders, low information voter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

A snowflake--one who constantly searches to quell imagined offenses for fear that they will melt if they do not.



fjnmusic said:


> Snowflakes? What's that supposed to mean? It's a Star of David and was intended by the website that published it to be a Star Of David. Take off the blinders, low information voter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> A snowflake--one who constantly searches to quell imagined offenses for fear that they will melt if they do not.



Yeah, I figured you were using it wrong. Now I have confirmation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> A snowflake--one who constantly searches to quell imagined offenses for fear that they will melt if they do not.


Maybe it's a Texas Ranger badge! Although 99% of the viewers would have called it a Magen David......who knew you were a 1 percenter!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> -*there's enough serious stuff going on in the world today*.


Yes, like subliminal racism. 

_U.S. law professor and author of the 2014 book Dog Whistle Politics Ian Haney-López described Ronald Reagan as "blowing a dog whistle" when the candidate told stories about "Cadillac-driving 'welfare queens' and 'strapping young bucks' buying T-bone steaks with food stamps" while he was campaigning for the presidency. 

He argues that such rhetoric pushes middle-class white Americans to vote against their economic self-interest in order to punish "undeserving minorities" who, they believe, are receiving too much public assistance at their expense. 

According to López, conservative middle-class whites, convinced by powerful economic interests that minorities are the enemy, supported politicians who promised to curb illegal immigration and crack down on crime but inadvertently also voted for policies that favor the extremely rich, such as slashing taxes for top income brackets, giving corporations more regulatory control over industry and financial markets, union busting, cutting pensions for future public employees, reducing funding for public schools, and retrenching the social welfare state. 

He argues that these same voters cannot link rising inequality which has impacted their lives to the policy agendas they support, which resulted in a massive transfer of wealth to the top 1% of the population since the 1980s._​(Wikipedia)​
*See also: *

"Code words for race”: What’s really behind GOP’s poverty and welfare obsession
8 Sneaky Racial Code Words and Why Politicians Love Them
Racial code words obscure real issues

Even crybaby and escaped mental patient Michelle Malkin recognizes this, though she tried her best to brush it off: The Condensed Liberal Handbook of Racial Code Words


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> Maybe it's a Texas Ranger badge! Although 99% of the viewers would have called it a Magen David......who knew you were a 1 percenter!



Yeah, except those badges have round things at the tips. It's a Star of David. The money drives the point home.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Kami

Unless I'm counting incorrectly, that sheriff badge has 7 points


----------



## Macfury

Kami said:


> Unless I'm counting incorrectly, that sheriff badge has 7 points


Yep. But no circles on the points. I've actually been enjoying the look at these badges--the 7-pointers are really handsome.


----------



## eMacMan

Kami said:


> Unless I'm counting incorrectly, that sheriff badge has 7 points


Nope Seven letters but only six points, unless you are including the pin on the back.

Up to the individual to say if they see something sinister in that.


----------



## heavyall

fjnmusic said:


> Snowflakes? What's that supposed to mean? It's a Star of David and was intended by the website that published it to be a Star Of David. Take off the blinders, low information voter.


Star of David is two intersecting triangles where the construction lines are part of the symbol. A solid red one, where there is no other reference to Israel or Judaism is clearly NOT the same thing.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> Star of David is two intersecting triangles where the construction lines are part of the symbol. A solid red one, where there is no other reference to Israel or Judaism is clearly NOT the same thing.


Unless they are solid yellow. Then, it takes on another meaning in total. Shalom, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> Star of David is two intersecting triangles where the construction lines are part of the symbol. A solid red one, where there is no other reference to Israel or Judaism is clearly NOT the same thing.













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Unless they are solid yellow. Then, it takes on another meaning in total. Shalom, mon ami.


Indeed.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





heavyall said:


> Indeed.


A sad chapter in the history of mankind. Shalom, mes amis.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> A sad chapter in the history of mankind. Shalom, mes amis.


It sure is. That's why it's so pathetic for Trump's attackers to use it to smear him with such an outrageous accusation. The entire premise doesn't even make sense anyway -- Clinton is a Methodist.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> It sure is. That's why it's so pathetic for Trump's attackers to use it to smear him with such an outrageous accusation. The entire premise doesn't even make sense anyway -- Clinton is a Methodist.



If there was nothing offensive about the image and it was only supposed to evoke a sheriff's badge (which makes no sense), why did the Trump campaign replace the star with a circle only hours later? And why did the whole ad appear on a white supremacist site with different words only days before? 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## heavyall

fjnmusic said:


> If there was nothing offensive about the image and it was only supposed to evoke a sheriff's badge (which makes no sense), why did the Trump campaign replace the star with a circle only hours later?


Because lying assholes like you were making such a big deal about it.


----------



## chasMac

His daughter is Jewish. Not a chance he's anti-semitic. Anyways, that's the province of the left.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Because lying assholes like you were making such a big deal about it.


Absolutely. Sometimes it's easiest to appease the snowflakes.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> Because lying assholes like you were making such a big deal about it.



Wow. And I'm the one with the foul mouth. Better take your meds, man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Yep, you are the one with the foul mouth. He's only quoting what you gave him a couple of days ago. Guess your meds were in short supply that day, huh?



fjnmusic said:


> Wow. And I'm the one with the foul mouth. Better take your meds, man.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Yep, you are the one with the foul mouth. He's only quoting what you gave him a couple of days ago. Guess your meds were in short supply that day, huh?



A sure sign of immaturity: blaming everyone but yourself for your own shortcomings. What did you say you do for a living again? I hope it has nothing to do with dealing with people. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> A sure sign of immaturity: blaming everyone but yourself for your own shortcomings. What did you say you do for a living again? I hope it has nothing to do with dealing with people.


fjn, you're really mixed up today. Which of my shortcomings am I blaming on you? And why do you keep repeating that comment about "dealing" with people—as aIready noted, I "deal" with many people and we get along famously.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> fjn, you're really mixed up today. Which of my shortcomings am I blaming on you? And why do you keep repeating that comment about "dealing" with people—as aIready noted, I "deal" with many people and we get along famously.



And yet you are so evasive about your line of work, yet you seem to happy to make digs about my being a teacher at every opportunity. Why is your job such a big secret? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> And yet you are so evasive about your line of work, yet you seem to happy to make digs about my being a teacher at every opportunity. Why is your job such a big secret?


He's either a very opinionated burger-flipper at McDonald's, or an unusually chatty MI-6 agent. Jury's out on that....  :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> ... yet you seem to happy to make digs about my being a teacher at every opportunity.


You asked me privately not to take digs at your being a teacher--a profession you willingly shared with everyone at EhMac--and I stopped immediately. 

Now you're publicly pretending that this never happened and still accusing me?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You asked me privately not to take digs at your being a teacher--a profession you willingly shared with everyone at EhMac--and I stopped immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're publicly pretending that this never happened and still accusing me?



I am offering you a taste of your own medicine. I'd respect your wishes if you respected me. You see no need for moderators here. I disagree and this is why. If you would try being nice, Macfury, so would I.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Offering me a taste of my own medicine--by pretending I did not agree privately with you not to poke fun at your profession? 

And you're behaving like this to prove we need a moderator?



fjnmusic said:


> I am offering you a taste of your own medicine. I'd respect your wishes if you respected me. You see no need for moderators here. I disagree and this is why. If you would try being nice, Macfury, so would I.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Offering me a taste of my own medicine--by pretending I did not agree privately with you not to poke fun at your profession?
> 
> 
> 
> And you're behaving like this to prove we need a moderator?



Poke fun at my profession all you want. Criticize teachers in a general sense, I'm fine with that. But take a stab at me personally, as you often do, and you will feel the backlash. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I don't often take a stab at you personally. And I have certainly never noticed much backlash directed against me. 



fjnmusic said:


> Poke fun at my profession all you want. Criticize teachers in a general sense, I'm fine with that. But take a stab at me personally, as you often do, and you will feel the backlash.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't often take a stab at you personally. And I have certainly never noticed much backlash directed against me.



Perhaps this is your accustomed way of dealing with people then. Callousness is pretty common on this forum, particularly after the mayor left. I don't see it in other forums I belong to, so this would be the exception. We are not insulting each other at the moment, which is good, but it gets rally easy to show disrespect when no one is overseeing. You perceive it as me lashing out, I perceive it as you bullying. Either way, as human beings, mature adults, and long time ehMac neighbors, we all need to find a way to show a common respect for one another.

/sermon over 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I have never bullied you by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> Either way, as human beings, mature adults, and long time ehMac neighbors, we all need to find a way to show a common respect for one another.


I could not agree more. How about we begin by not calling each other a-holes?


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> I could not agree more. How about we begin by not calling each other a-holes?


:clap::clap::clap: Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Getting back to American politics, any comments about Trump choosing Gov. Pense as his VP candidate?


----------



## Dr.G.

Staying with American politics, anyone want to venture a guess as to whom Clinton will select as her VP candidate?


----------



## Dr.G.

Isn't it great when we can argue politics and not the personalities of fellow ehMacLanders????????????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Getting back to American politics, any comments about Trump choosing Gov. Pense as his VP candidate?


I agree with Ann Coulter on this--some members of the Republican establishment would be happy to impeach Trump simply to get an establishment president in the White House. I would have chosen someone outside of the establishment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I agree with Ann Coulter on this--some members of the Republican establishment would be happy to impeach Trump simply to get an establishment president in the White House. I would have chosen someone outside of the establishment.


Interesting. Still, I don't see Ryan as leading the charge to impeach ............ he is going to speak at the convention. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. Still, I don't see Ryan as leading the charge to impeach ............ he is going to speak at the convention. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Ryan would not do it. It would seemingly come from the Democrats and be supported by the Republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ryan would not do it. It would seemingly come from the Democrats and be supported by the Republicans.


Not going to happen. One, they don't have the numbers to push it through, and two, they would have to wait for him to do something that warrants being impeached. Granted, the second point might not be that long, but if he can get elected, I see him having both the House of Reps and the Senate in the hands of the Republican party. God help the Americans if this happens, but unless he tries to pack the Supreme Court with his daughters and in-laws, I don't see the Republicans as turning against him. Now, if he pisses off the Koch brothers ............ well, that is another matter.

The best solution is for Hillary Clinton to be elected president, with both houses of Congress in the hands of progressive Democrats. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Getting back to American politics, any comments about Trump choosing Gov. Pense as his VP candidate?


Well, Pence will make evangelical florists and bakers happy....

He may very well be a boost to Trump's campaign. I imagine few people think Trump would actually have the temerity to stick it out for four years, leaving the VP pick as a very important matter (remember Dan Quayle? *shudder*) considering that person may well be President sooner rather than later.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I agree with Ann Coulter on this--some members of the Republican establishment would be happy to impeach Trump simply to get an establishment president in the White House. I would have chosen someone outside of the establishment.


I find this interesting that the Republican Party, in its wisdom, has done much to lead one to believe it conspired against the conspiracy Candidate....I guess they don't get irony. Little whispers have indicated that there is considerable lobbying to sway delegates away from Trump......which in itself supports his line. Any form of impeachment would also bring in Dems ( who have their own conspiracy theories ) to support Trump. So there we have it. Two candidates nobody wants and both saying that the old boy network ( which they both belong to ) is conspiring against them....once the gun smoke clears should be fun to watch.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Well, Pence will make evangelical florists and bakers happy....
> 
> He may very well be a boost to Trump's campaign. I imagine few people think Trump would actually have the temerity to stick it out for four years, leaving the VP pick as a very important matter (remember Dan Quayle? *shudder*) considering that person may well be President sooner rather than later.


Valid points, CM. I worried when Agnew was Nixon's VP, and Quayle was Bush's VP. It shall be interesting to see who Clinton picks as her VP.

Paix, mi amigo.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I find this interesting that the Republican Party, in its wisdom, has done much to lead one to believe it conspired against the conspiracy Candidate....I guess they don't get irony. Little whispers have indicated that there is considerable lobbying to sway delegates away from Trump......which in itself supports his line. Any form of impeachment would also bring in Dems ( who have their own conspiracy theories ) to support Trump. So there we have it. Two candidates nobody wants and both saying that the old boy network ( which they both belong to ) is conspiring against them....once the gun smoke clears should be fun to watch.


The "Dump Trump" movement lost their vote in the rules committee meeting today to allow delegates to "vote their conscience". There won't be much of a counter-Trump movement at the convention. Major players will just stay away. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dan Quayle was unfairly pilloried. No a dynamic individual but no worse than other pols.

And only a _few people _think Trump would not stick it out for four years.



CubaMark said:


> Well, Pence will make evangelical florists and bakers happy....
> 
> He may very well be a boost to Trump's campaign. I imagine few people think Trump would actually have the temerity to stick it out for four years, leaving the VP pick as a very important matter (remember Dan Quayle? *shudder*) considering that person may well be President sooner rather than later.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html?_r=0

CM, maybe Trump will pull a pseudo-Gen. Sherman position by saying at the convention "If nominated, I shall run ......... if elected, I shall not serve for long." We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Any form of impeachment would also bring in Dems ( who have their own conspiracy theories ) to support Trump.


Huh?


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> The "Dump Trump" movement lost their vote in the rules committee meeting today to allow delegates to "vote their conscience". There won't be much of a counter-Trump movement at the convention. Major players will just stay away. We shall see.


Then let the fun begin.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Then let the fun begin.


There would have been fun had their been a floor fight .............. now it is just four days of speeches and a coronation of Trump. Such is Life.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> There would have been fun had their been a floor fight .............. now it is just four days of speeches and a coronation of Trump. Such is Life.


That's on the inside....the outside is where we will see the fun!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Huh?


Now that the Dump Trump lost this won't be an issue. But if they won, it would have supported the populace belief that the conventions are rigged. I have some southern polling contacts who tell me that there is such angst about the fairness of this election that if Teump was bounced at th convention even Dems would vote for him if he ran as an independent.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Now that the Dump Trump lost this won't be an issue. But if they won, it would have supported the populace belief that the conventions are rigged. I have some southern polling contacts who tell me that there is such angst about the fairness of this election that if Teump was bounced at th convention even Dems would vote for him if he ran as an independent.


I thought you meant Dem representatives. Now I get it!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> That's on the inside....the outside is where we will see the fun!


Well, tennis balls are banned within 75 blocks of the convention hall, so there goes the fun.


----------



## Dr.G.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attend and speak at the Republican convention?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I have never bullied you by any stretch of the imagination.



Bullies never see themselves as bullies. This is really where the problem starts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> I could not agree more. How about we begin by not calling each other a-holes?




Fair enough. But we can we refer to that a-hole Donald Trump? It is that off limits too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Not going to happen. One, they don't have the numbers to push it through, and two, they would have to wait for him to do something that warrants being impeached. Granted, the second point might not be that long, but if he can get elected, I see him having both the House of Reps and the Senate in the hands of the Republican party. God help the Americans if this happens, but unless he tries to pack the Supreme Court with his daughters and in-laws, I don't see the Republicans as turning against him. Now, if he pisses off the Koch brothers ............ well, that is another matter.
> 
> 
> 
> The best solution is for Hillary Clinton to be elected president, with both houses of Congress in the hands of progressive Democrats. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



Thing about Trump is that he doesn't need the backing of the Koch brothers. Not really. He is a maverick, but he is also not well-versed in the law. At all. It doesn't matter if he hires the best people—me needs to know it for himself. It's hard to swear to uphold the Constitution when he doesn't know the difference between an Article and an Amendment. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Bullies never see themselves as bullies. This is really where the problem starts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





fjnmusic said:


> Fair enough. But we can we refer to that a-hole Donald Trump? It is that off limits too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Play nice, Frank. Let's stick to US politics. I guess we could call any politician any body part ......... within reason.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Play nice, Frank. Let's stick to US politics. I guess we could call any politician any body part ......... within reason.



Sorry. Just finishing a previous conversation. As far as Sarah Palin goes, she knows more about politics than Trump does—talk about damning with faint praise. However, she has lost some of the hotness factor she used to have four years ago, plus she hasn't been a governor for a few years now. Personally, I think you'd have to be a special kind of person to be VP to that megalomaniac. He is not a team player. 


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----------



## Macfury

Whereas Obama pretends to uphold it while presumingly knowing it.



fjnmusic said:


> Thing about Trump is that he doesn't need the backing of the Koch brothers. Not really. He is a maverick, but he is also not well-versed in the law. At all. It doesn't matter if he hires the best people—me needs to know it for himself. It's hard to swear to uphold the Constitution when he doesn't know the difference between an Article and an Amendment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Bullies never see themselves as bullies. This is really where the problem starts.


And grown men never see themselves as living out the roles of perennial schoolyard victims. That should be where the problem ends. 

Loosen up and have some fun!


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder if Sarah Palin will attend and speak at the Republican convention?



Now this Sarah Palin would attract votes:









Whereas this one, maybe not quite so much:










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----------



## Macfury

That's rather sexist, judging Palin by her looks.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Thing about Trump is that he doesn't need the backing of the Koch brothers. Not really. He is a maverick, but he is also not well-versed in the law. At all. It doesn't matter if he hires the best people—me needs to know it for himself. It's hard to swear to uphold the Constitution when he doesn't know the difference between an Article and an Amendment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Trump does not need the support of the Koch brothers, but dozens upon dozens of those in Congress need their support. So, if they say "jump", these reps say "how high?"

"It's hard to swear to uphold the Constitution when he doesn't know the difference between an Article and an Amendment. " True .............


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Whereas Obama pretends to uphold it while presumingly knowing it.


Pres. Obama has done quiet well in upholding his oath of office. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And grown men never see themselves as living out the roles of perennial schoolyard victims. That should be where the problem ends.
> 
> Loosen up and have some fun!


Play fair, Peter.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Obama has done quiet well in upholding his oath of office. :clap::clap:


He said he did not have the power to ignore his oath of office in upholding immigration law--and then chose to ignore it through executive order.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He said he did not have the power to ignore his oath of office in upholding immigration law--and then chose to ignore it through executive order.


As is his right as a president ............ as seen by Pres. Reagan all the way to Pres. Obama.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> As is his right as a president ............ as seen by Pres. Reagan all the way to Pres. Obama.


No. He said he did not have the power to do it within the Constitution... then did it anyway. Courts overruled it as unconstitutional.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Play fair, Peter.




Yah, Peter. 


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----------



## Macfury

See, you're having fun already!


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Yah, Peter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now, Frank. You play fair as well. Just let's get along in this thread and discuss US politics. Merci, mes amis. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> See, you're having fun already!


We should all have clean fun, and not pick at each other. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Furious Christie Refuses to Pick Up Trump's Dry Cleaning - The New Yorker

:lmao::lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Now, Frank. You play fair as well. Just let's get along in this thread and discuss US politics. Merci, mes amis. Paix.



We'll try. It's just that this whole "getting along" thing is new to some of us. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> We'll try. It's just that this whole "getting along" thing is new to some of us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, we all need to try just a bit harder. We can all be friendly, if not friends, and still have a good discussion about American politics. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, we all need to try just a bit harder. We can all be friendly, if not friends, and still have a good discussion about American politics. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.



This forum has needed a moderator for some time, and you do it well, Marc. If we can extend the same courtesies on all threads, we'll be homefree. Shalom. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> This forum has needed a moderator for some time, and you do it well, Marc. If we can extend the same courtesies on all threads, we'll be homefree. Shalom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My personal view is that we should all just monitor our own comments. No need for an outside "moderator". I have no authority, and feel that we are all capable of discussing our differing points of view with some respect for the other person.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> I wonder if Sarah Palin will attend and speak at the Republican convention?


*Trump: Palin won't speak at RNC because Alaska is too far away*










It's a long way from Alaska to Ohio -- a bit too long for Sarah Palin, apparently.

The former Alaska governor was a noticeable absence from a partial list of speakers announced to speak at next week's Republican National Convention in Cleveland.
In an interview with the Washington Examiner on Thursday, Trump said that Palin was asked to speak, but that the distance ultimately precluded her from making the trip.
"It's a little bit difficult because of where she is," Trump said, referring to Palin's home state of Alaska. "We love Sarah. Little bit difficult because of, you know, it's a long ways away."​
(CNN)


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

It never needed one and does not need one now. Nor does the forum.



fjnmusic said:


> This forum has needed a moderator for some time, and you do it well, Marc. If we can extend the same courtesies on all threads, we'll be homefree. Shalom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Why is this supposed to be funny?



CubaMark said:


> *Trump: Palin won't speak at RNC because Alaska is too far away*


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It never needed one and does not need one now. Nor does the forum.


I agree, mon ami. And certainly I do NOT want this role. "If nominated, I shall not run. If elected, I shall not serve." Gen. Sherman.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Do what you can, where you are, with what you have." - Teddy Roosevelt. I think that TR would be doing what he could to stop Trump even before he got his momentum.


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting that they announced Tim Tebow would be speaking without bothering to inform him.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Interesting that they did not bother to tell Tim Tebow he would be speaking there.


Yes, I heard that as well, Bob. Very interesting.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why is this supposed to be funny?


Because 21st-Century. Air travel commonplace. 

You asked that question seriously?


:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump asked Condi Rice to be his running mate, but she wasn't interested*

*The presumptive Republican nominee is polling at historic lows among women and African-Americans, with a vice-presidential short-list of three middle-aged white men*










_Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice reportedly turned down an offer from the Trump campaign to be the presumptive Republican nominee’s vice-presidential running mate. Sources told CNN reporters Dana Bash and Elise LaBott that Donald Trump’s team had “reached out to Condi Rice in [the] last few days,” Ms Bash tweeted, adding that Dr Rice “had no interest” in the role._​
(Independent UK)


----------



## Dr.G.

Mark, very interesting if that article is true. That would have been a real "trump card" for Trump.


----------



## Rps

Anyone going to watch the Republican Convention? I can hardly what. Question for you all, if PBS has 15% of the watching audience and CNN has 31% of the watching audience, and Trump has won the dump Trump lobby........what time does the riot start?


----------



## Macfury

Since Trump is rightfully hostile to the original Iraq invasion, it would be unlikely that Rice would want to be involved. Also, Rice has historically been unpopular among black voters. 



CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump asked Condi Rice to be his running mate, but she wasn't interested*
> 
> *The presumptive Republican nominee is polling at historic lows among women and African-Americans, with a vice-presidential short-list of three middle-aged white men*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice reportedly turned down an offer from the Trump campaign to be the presumptive Republican nominee’s vice-presidential running mate. Sources told CNN reporters Dana Bash and Elise LaBott that Donald Trump’s team had “reached out to Condi Rice in [the] last few days,” Ms Bash tweeted, adding that Dr Rice “had no interest” in the role._​
> (Independent UK)


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I agree, mon ami. And certainly I do NOT want this role. "If nominated, I shall not run. If elected, I shall not serve." Gen. Sherman.


If appointed, I would not listen to you!


----------



## Macfury

Yes. Just flight time alone one way is about 7 hours. 



CubaMark said:


> Because 21st-Century. Air travel commonplace.
> 
> You asked that question seriously?
> 
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It never needed one and does not need one now. Nor does the forum.



And yet what Dr. G has accomplished by telling us to play nicely together is, in fact, moderating. Ironic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> And yet what Dr. G has accomplished by telling us to play nicely together is, in fact, moderating. Ironic.


Nor sure what you're getting at.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Because 21st-Century. Air travel commonplace.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked that question seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:




How did she get around for speaking engagements in 2012? 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If appointed, I would not listen to you!


If appointed, I would not say anything.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Nor sure what you're getting at.



Not much to get at really. Sometimes when two people are having trouble seeing eye to eye, having a third party provide objective advice on how to get along can make both parties behave. This is exactly what Dr. G has accomplished, even inadvertently. This is what moderators do—they suggest people cool off before digging at each other. This is what John, mayor of ehMac, used to do, before some conversations, notably religion and politics, start to get too heated. It's a compliment to Dr. G's diplomacy and a reminder that sometimes we need to be told to play nicely. Accidental moderation, if you will. 

Now back to American politics. I have serious concerns about our neighbours down south. Trump is not a helping kind of guy. Trump watches out for Trump. Just because he's rich doesn't mean he's going to be sharing the wealth. There's usually a reason rich people stay rich. The same could be said of Hillary. They should have gone with Bernie.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> If appointed, I would not say anything.



No need. You're a figurehead around here. Maybe it's the Mark Twain avatar.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Not much to get at really. Sometimes when two people are having trouble seeing eye to eye, having a third party provide objective advice on how to get along can make both parties behave. This is exactly what Dr. G has accomplished, even inadvertently. This is what moderators do—they suggest people cool off before digging at each other. This is what John, mayor of ehMac, used to do, before some conversations, notably religion and politics, start to get too heated. It's a compliment to Dr. G's diplomacy and a reminder that sometimes we need to be told to play nicely. Accidental moderation, if you will.
> 
> Now back to American politics. I have serious concerns about our neighbours down south. Trump is not a helping kind of guy. Trump watches out for Trump. Just because he's rich doesn't mean he's going to be sharing the wealth. There's usually a reason rich people stay rich. The same could be said of Hillary. They should have gone with Bernie.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci, mon ami. Thank you for the kind words.

Well, I was a Sanders supporter, but shall vote for Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> No need. You're a figurehead around here. Maybe it's the Mark Twain avatar.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci. A "figurehead"??????? I feel that many would use other descriptions of my being here in ehMacLand these past 15 years of so. (Join Date -- Aug 4th, 2001)


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I have serious concerns about our neighbours down south. Trump is not a helping kind of guy. Trump watches out for Trump. Just because he's rich doesn't mean he's going to be sharing the wealth. There's usually a reason rich people stay rich. The same could be said of Hillary. They should have gone with Bernie.


You're looking at this through a narrow "progressive" lens. America did not become an economic powerhouse by "sharing" wealth. It did so because people were free to pursue ideas and employed others to help them achieve those ideas. America is in the doldrums because it is focused on "sharing" a stagnant pie, not in making bigger pies.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Merci. A "figurehead"??????? I feel that many would use other descriptions of my being here in ehMacLand these past 15 years of so. (Join Date -- Aug 4th, 2001)


Maybe something on the prow of a ship?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You're looking at this through a narrow "progressive" lens. America did not become an economic powerhouse by "sharing" wealth. It did so because people were free to pursue ideas and employed others to help them achieve those ideas. America is in the doldrums because it is focused on "sharing" a stagnant pie, not in making bigger pies.



Not at all. People look to Trump as some kind of saviour who will "make America great again," as though his good fortune will running on them. But that's not the way Trump works, and if making America great again includes increasing the tension in face relations among other things, people may have to be careful what they wish for. Under Trump, America would get much much worse, especially for minorities. The comparisons to Hitler are not unjustified.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Maybe something on the prow of a ship?


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Hyperbole. If you make a grand claim such as this, you'll need some grand evidence.



fjnmusic said:


> Not at all. People look to Trump as some kind of saviour who will "make America great again," as though his good fortune will running on them. But that's not the way Trump works, and if making America great again includes increasing the tension in face relations among other things, people may have to be careful what they wish for. Under Trump, America would get much much worse, especially for minorities. *The comparisons to Hitler are not unjustified.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Hyperbole. If you make a grand claim such as this, you'll need some grand evidence.



He uses very much the same tactics Hitler used prior to the Second World War. Vilify certain cultures, use very divisive language, operate from a standpoint of ignorance (no familiarity with the actual US constitution he would be sworn to uphold). You combine free enterprise with a dictatorship, you have fascism, which is exactly what Trump is aiming for. Can you explain how Trump is not using Hitlerian tactics? 


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## Macfury

I can just as easily use that sort of weak logic to prove that Clinton, Sanders and Obama used Hitlerian tactics. 



fjnmusic said:


> He uses very much the same tactics Hitler used prior to the Second World War. Vilify certain cultures, use very divisive language, operate from a standpoint of ignorance (no familiarity with the actual US constitution he would be sworn to uphold). You combine free enterprise with a dictatorship, you have fascism, which is exactly what Trump is aiming for. Can you explain how Trump is not using Hitlerian tactics?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I can just as easily use that sort of weak logic to prove that Clinton, Sanders and Obama used Hitlerian tactics.



Okay, good for you. Let's see what you've got.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's rather sexist, judging Palin by her looks.



Isn't that why she was hired in the first place? It certainly wasn't because of her knowledge of geography or history. If she were a plain Jane no one would have even looked at her. 


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## Macfury

You were angry just because someone posted a photo of Notley showing the bags under her eyes. The double standard is appalling.



fjnmusic said:


> Isn't that why she was hired in the first place? It certainly wasn't because of her knowledge of geography or history. If she were a plain Jane no one would have even looked at her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You were angry just because someone posted a photo of Notley showing the bags under her eyes. The double standard is appalling.



Play nicely, Peter.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Play nicely, Peter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, all should play nicely.


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## CubaMark

*Donald Trump's speech introducing Mike Pence showed why he shouldn't be president*










I do not know how to explain what I just watched.

It should be easy. Donald Trump introduced Indiana Governor Mike Pence as his running mate. There it is. One sentence. Eleven words. But that doesn’t explain what happened any better than "I spent a few hours letting lysergic acid diethylamide mimic serotonin in my brain" explains an acid trip. What just happened was weird, and it was important.

* * *​
Donald Trump’s introduction of Mike Pence was shocking. Forget the political mainstream. What happened today sat outside the mainstream for normal human behavior.

It began in irony. Before Pence, before Trump, there was an empty podium, and the Rolling Stones blasting through the speakers. It had been widely reported that few top Republicans were willing to serve as Trump’s running mate. It had been widely reported that Trump was unsure about Pence, that he had regretted the decision almost as soon as he made it, that he had sought ways to reverse himself. Hours before the announcement, Trump tweeted that Pence was "my first choice from the start!", which is a thing presidential candidates typically do not need to say.

* * *​
So there we were. Waiting for Trump and Pence to emerge. And what Rolling Stones song did the campaign choose? What did we all hear, over and over again, as we waited for Trump to introduce Mike Pence, his "first choice from the start!"?

"You can’t always get what you want..."​
(Vox)


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Play nicely...


I don't know why you believe that some sort of shift has occurred. Calling you out for hypocrisy is never off the table.


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## eMacMan

A bit of American History that has also escaped most history classes.

Native History: Descendant Tells Father's Story of Fort Robinson Escape - ICTMN.com

And a worthy monument to the few survivors and those who died.

Tribal elder wouldn't let go of dream to memorialize Northern Cheyenne ancestors at Fort Robinson | Montana News | billingsgazette.com


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't know why you believe that some sort of shift has occurred. Calling you out for hypocrisy is never off the table.



It's not hypocrisy. Sarah Palin was obviously chosen for her looks. In any event, some sort of shift certainly should be occurring. Share the sandbox. 


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## Macfury

That's nonsense. It's only your opinion. And yet you flared up with anger when someone simply posted a photo of Notley--which you claimed was sexist.



fjnmusic said:


> It's not hypocrisy. Sarah Palin was obviously chosen for her looks. In any event, some sort of shift certainly should be occurring. Share the sandbox.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's nonsense. It's only your opinion. And yet you flared up with anger when someone simply posted a photo of Notley--which you claimed was sexist.



Stop trolling, Peter, and stop rehashing. No one cares. You're looking for another squabble and I'm not going to give it to you. Have a nice day. 


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## Macfury

It was CubaMark who called the photo of Notley sexist, not you. So you're not a hypocrite regarding Palin--just sexist.

By the way, that's not my name. Weird to see you keep using it.



fjnmusic said:


> Stop trolling, Peter, and stop rehashing. No one cares. You're looking for another squabble and I'm not going to give it to you. Have a nice day.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It was CubaMark who called the photo of Notley sexist, not you. So you're not a hypocrite regarding Palin--just sexist.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, that's not my name. Weird to see you keep using it.



Dr. G called you that. He goes by Marc, near as I can tell. Noticing the ravishing good looks of a person hardly makes them sexist. And only a fool would come to the conclusion that Sarah Palin was chosen as running mate because of her intelligence rather than her obvious sex appeal. I'm surprised you never noticed it. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Dr. G called you that. He goes by Marc, near as I can tell. Noticing the ravishing good looks of a person hardly makes them sexist. And only a fool would come to the conclusion that Sarah Palin was chosen as running mate because of her intelligence rather than her obvious sex appeal. I'm surprised you never noticed it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my mistake, Frank. Macfury is Macfury, you are fjn, I am Dr.G. and let it go at that. Hopefully, we can all still be friends .......... or at least friendly here in ehMacLand. Paix, mon ami.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> That was my mistake, Frank. Macfury is Macfury, you are fjn, I am Dr.G. and let it go at that. Hopefully, we can all still be friends .......... or at least friendly here in ehMacLand. Paix, mon ami.



Well, you can call me Frank—just don't call me late for dinner. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Well, you can call me Frank—just don't call me late for dinner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, you can call me Marc .............. if you invite me to dinner to talk about American politics. Paix, mon ami.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, you can call me Marc .............. if you invite me to dinner to talk about American politics. Paix, mon ami.



I was watching the Passionate Eye, Trump special. Boy, this guy is not going to be good news for America. He talked for 28 minutes about himself as his introduction of his running mate. Guy s a genuine narcissist. He's not there to serve anyone.


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## Macfury

You know the author of _Dilbert_, Scott Anderson? He's following the Trump campaign very carefully and notes that almost nothing Trump is doing is unplanned. He calls Trump a master communicator and explains why even those things that look accidental to his opponents are very deliberately staged that way.



fjnmusic said:


> I was watching the Passionate Eye, Trump special. Boy, this guy is not going to be good news for America. He talked for 28 minutes about himself as his introduction of his running mate. Guy s a genuine narcissist. He's not there to serve anyone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You know the author of _Dilbert_, Scott Anderson? He's following the Trump campaign very carefully and notes that almost nothing Trump is doing is unplanned. He calls Trump a master communicator and explains why even those things that look accidental to his opponents are very deliberately staged that way.



Staged by Trump, not by any handlers. Trump is not a real player, never has been, and takes direction from no one. That's one of the things that are him very dangerous. There are no checks and balances, not within the GOP, and not if and when he becomes the leader of the free world. He is an opportunist, nothing more. Bill and Hillary were guests at its third wedding. He's not a Republican; he's a lone wolf. 


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## Macfury

The fact that he hasn't got any "handlers" is part of his appeal. Preferring a leader to have handlers is indicative of in-the-box, establishment thinking. Who cares if he is a Republican? 

The checks and balances are in the senate, house of representatives, Constitution and Supreme Court.

Nonetheless, read Adams' blog. Very incisive.



fjnmusic said:


> Staged by Trump, not by any handlers. Trump is not a real player, never has been, and takes direction from no one. That's one of the things that are him very dangerous. There are no checks and balances, not within the GOP, and not if and when he becomes the leader of the free world. He is an opportunist, nothing more. Bill and Hillary were guests at its third wedding. He's not a Republican; he's a lone wolf.


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## macintosh doctor

this is why America is messed because of people like Don Lemon.
Don Lemon your are a hateful human, who doesn't care about his guest or their views unless they match yours.. fire him.. he is awful - spreading his hateful views.. and he got called on it. 

Wisconsin sheriff on Baton Rouge shootings: I predicted this - CNN.com


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## SINC

Those who intend to vote for Clinton, may want to rethink their decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypl1MYuKDY


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## Rps

Sinc, you and I have both worked in the media ( you more so than I ) so, based on the Don Lemon interview.....did he do a good job of controlling the interview? I thought he did a great job........we have to remember what his job is......keeping viewer interest. Thoughts...


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## Rps

Sinc, can you remember a time in U.S. Politics where both front runners were so mistrusted and disliked?


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## Rps

Macfury said:


> The checks and balances are in the senate, house of representatives, Constitution and Supreme Court.
> .


Ironic, in a way, that our PM has more absolute power within our system than the President has in his/hers.


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## SINC

Rps said:


> Sinc, you and I have both worked in the media ( you more so than I ) so, based on the Don Lemon interview.....did he do a good job of controlling the interview? I thought he did a great job........we have to remember what his job is......keeping viewer interest. Thoughts...


He did what he had to do to take back control and be the interviewer, not the interviewee. That accomplished he should have asked questions of the police officer that pertained to the officer's predictions and why he made them. Instead he insisted on following his own queries on the man's 'feelings and thoughts' which are irrelevant to the issue. I give him 50%, but no more.


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## SINC

Rps said:


> Sinc, can you remember a time in U.S. Politics where both front runners were so mistrusted and disliked?


No, never this close to an election for sure. There were candidates in the past who were mistrusted of course, but I cannot recall two at the same time from two different parties being the nominees.


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## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> No, never this close to an election for sure. There were candidates in the past who were mistrusted of course, but I cannot recall two at the same time from two different parties being the nominees.


The 1968 presidential election was far closer than this one since you had George Wallace poised to bring in the five states of the deep south. The final results in the popular vote showed this closeness, although Nixon did get over 300 electoral college votes. The rest, as they say, is history.


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## CubaMark

Stephen Colbert at the RNC:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Stephen Colbert at the RNC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


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## Dr.G.

In Trump We Trust: E Pluribus Awesome! He will make America "grate" again by banning all pre-shredded cheese. God bless America.


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## CubaMark

*Trump (& Pence) Interview on 60 MInutes - highlights*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> Stephen Colbert at the RNC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I have no idea what, if anything people see in Colbert. He is not a person I could ever respect for his lack of any particular talent.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Trump (& Pence) Interview on 60 MInutes - highlights*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Pence just sat there like a dope and let Trump do all the talking for him. So, it is OK for Pence to be for the war in Iraq, but not Clinton??????????????????


----------



## FeXL

As opposed to the current Narcissist In Chief who referred to himself 45 times during his memorial speech in Dallas?

Get real...



fjnmusic said:


> He talked for 28 minutes about himself as his introduction of his running mate. Guy s a genuine narcissist. He's not there to serve anyone.


----------



## FeXL

Exactly! He's not beholden to any financial contributors, each with their own political axe to grind. 

How this is a Bad Thing is beyond me...



fjnmusic said:


> ...and takes direction from no one.


----------



## FeXL

Not saying he is or isn't but, if so, who cares? Why does a candiate have to be a Republican, or Democrat, or Independent? Why is that so important? Shouldn't his platform be what you make your decision on? Rather than what party he identifies with?



fjnmusic said:


> He's not a Republican; he's a lone wolf.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Not saying he is or isn't but, if so, who cares? Why does a candiate have to be a Republican, or Democrat, or Independent? Why is that so important? Shouldn't his platform be what you make your decision on? Rather than what party he identifies with?


Good point, FeXL. In a way, he is like Ike and Reagan. No one knew if Ike was going to run as a Democrat or Republican back in 1952, and Reagan was initially a New Deal Democrat. What is so scary about Trump is that if you take him at his word as his platform, it has no specifics and a great many generalities that scare people ....... and rightfully so. At least Barry Goldwater was honest and told the Americans that he would not hesitate using atomic weapons, even if it meant WWIII. 

So, let's hope that Trump loses as badly as Goldwater did in 1964. I don't see this happening, and feel that it will be a close race to the end. Trump needs to take all the states that Romney took in 2012, along with four key swing states, and he will be the next president. God help America then ............... God help us all. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> I have no idea what, if anything people see in Colbert. He is not a person I could ever respect for his lack of any particular talent.


They don't see much. His show is tanking in the ratings.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Not saying he is or isn't but, if so, who cares? Why does a candiate have to be a Republican, or Democrat, or Independent? Why is that so important? Shouldn't his platform be what you make your decision on? Rather than what party he identifies with?



Because he's running to be the Republican candidate—hello. If he was running as an independent, that would be less disingenuous. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Because he's running to be the Republican candidate—hello. If he was running as an independent, that would be less disingenuous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That would have been an interesting election -- Clinton as the Democratic candidate, someone like Bush as the Republican candidate, and Trump as the Independent candidate. In this scenario, I think that Trump would get more popular votes than someone like Bush.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> That would have been an interesting election -- Clinton as the Democratic candidate, someone like Bush as the Republican candidate, and Trump as the Independent candidate. In this scenario, I think that Trump would get more popular votes than someone like Bush.



And Bernie could have beat them all! And he WAS an independent not that long ago.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And Bernie could have beat them all! And he WAS an independent not that long ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now that would have been the dream election ................ I was a Bernie supporter from the onset. Felt the Bern .............. but I shall vote for Clinton in Georgia.


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## FeXL

I could rehash all the reasons why I believe Trump is a far better option than Bill's Wife (especially after the foreign & domestic nightmare of Barry) again but that would be pointless.

While I consider few politicians to possess even a modicum of integrity, she has none. Zero. How any reasonable, informed individual could even remotely consider Bill's Wife as a plausible option literally stuns me. I am aghast at the concept.

Suffice it to say that, with the US having the largest or 2nd largest economy on the earth, Bill's Lying Wife is literally the worst leader this planet could see at the reins.

I've believed in Trump since he announced his candidacy. He got the nod. Now he'll get the vote. The country needs to rid itself of the millstone they've got right now & not jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

Is he perfect? Nope. Not by a stretch. However, I believe that all his bluster is merely that: noise. Behind that is a shrewd businessman who knows dollars & cents & can fix issues that a mere lefty politician left in tatters & another mere lefty politician would simply exasperate.

God will help America. By ensuring Trump's victory.

Good chatting with you, my friend. Take care.



Dr.G. said:


> God help America then ............... God help us all. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

I guess the Lone Wolf Party couldn't be reached for comment...



fjnmusic said:


> Because he's running to be the Republican candidate—hello. If he was running as an independent, that would be less disingenuous.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I could rehash all the reasons why I believe Trump is a far better option than Bill's Wife (especially after the foreign & domestic nightmare of Barry) again but that would be pointless.
> 
> While I consider few politicians to possess even a modicum of integrity, she has none. Zero. How any reasonable, informed individual could even remotely consider Bill's Wife as a plausible option literally stuns me. I am aghast at the concept.
> 
> Suffice it to say that, with the US having the largest or 2nd largest economy on the earth, Bill's Lying Wife is literally the worst leader this planet could see at the reins.
> 
> I've believed in Trump since he announced his candidacy. He got the nod. Now he'll get the vote. The country needs to rid itself of the millstone they've got right now & not jump out of the frying pan into the fire.
> 
> Is he perfect? Nope. Not by a stretch. However, I believe that all his bluster is merely that: noise. Behind that is a shrewd businessman who knows dollars & cents & can fix issues that a mere lefty politician left in tatters & another mere lefty politician would simply exasperate.
> 
> God will help America. By ensuring Trump's victory.
> 
> Good chatting with you, my friend. Take care.


Well, like I say to my friend, Macfury, let's agree to disagree. I preferred Sanders over Clinton, but shall be voting for Clinton. May the best candidate win. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury

A few months ago. Not a Democrat until then, but that's OK? Just don't have Trump run as a Republican. Do you see the problem with your logic?



fjnmusic said:


> And Bernie could have beat them all! And he WAS an independent not that long ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I could rehash all the reasons why I believe Trump is a far better option than Bill's Wife (especially after the foreign & domestic nightmare of Barry) again but that would be pointless.
> 
> While I consider few politicians to possess even a modicum of integrity, she has none. Zero. How any reasonable, informed individual could even remotely consider Bill's Wife as a plausible option literally stuns me. I am aghast at the concept.


The stain on the bottom of my shoe has more integrity than Ms. Clinton.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> A few months ago. Not a Democrat until then, but that's OK? Just don't have Trump run as a Republican. Do you see the problem with your logic?



Nope. I think they both should have run as independents, since that is really what they are. 


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## Macfury

You expressed happiness with Bernie running as a Democrat until today.



fjnmusic said:


> Nope. I think they both should have run as independents, since that is really what they are.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> You expressed happiness with Bernie running as a Democrat until today.



Well, believe it or not, I'm allowed to think whatever I like without telling you about it. If you want to be elected, you need to be a Democrat or a Republican. Just ask Ross Perot. Or Ralph Nader. I understand why both gentlemen chose the way they did. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I can only judge what you say--can't guess what you think.



fjnmusic said:


> Well, believe it or not, I'm allowed to think whatever I like without telling you about it. If you want to be elected, you need to be a Democrat or a Republican. Just ask Ross Perot. Or Ralph Nader. I understand why both gentlemen chose the way they did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I can only judge what you say--can't guess what you think.



Nobody's asking you to judge at all, Macfury. Have a pleasant rest of the evening. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The stain on the bottom of my shoe has more integrity than Ms. Clinton.


What I cleaned out of the cat box tonite has more integrity...

Low information voters being taken in by her lies I can _almost_ understand. What completely stuns me is alleged intelligent people accepting her as a viable alternative.

I simply cannot figger it.


----------



## fjnmusic

I'll get the BEST words from only the BEST people. 

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/melania-trump-speech-echoes-unlikely-source-727567427784


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I'll get the BEST words from only the BEST people.
> 
> Melania Trump speech strikingly similar to Michelle Obama 2008 | MSNBC


Trump's wife must have felt a great deal of Michele Obama's speech back in 2008 .......... she lifted a couple of sentences from it, word for word.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Trump's wife must have felt a great deal of Michele Obama's speech back in 2008 .......... she lifted a couple of sentences from it, word for word.



More than a couple. In the commentary, they identify one section where 22 of 26 words are exactly the same and in the same order. No way it could be a coincidence. It'll be fun watching the Donald try to spin this in his favor. 


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## fjnmusic

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## CubaMark

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## fjnmusic

And don't forget the rickroll built into Melania's speech. Sabotage?










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## Macfury

Very important stuff on the minds of the newshawks I see. Both speeches are hackneyed boilerplate.


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## Macfury

It's a free service.



fjnmusic said:


> Nobody's asking you to judge at all, Macfury. Have a pleasant rest of the evening.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And don't forget the rickroll built into Melania's speech. Sabotage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Verbatim: The similarities between Melania Trump and Michelle Obama - The Globe and Mail


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Very important stuff on the minds of the newshawks I see. Both speeches are hackneyed boilerplate.


Careful what you say/write, Macfury. She might be our next first lady. And to blast her is to blast him ................. and there goes your shot at being the US Ambassador to Canada. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oops ..............


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Careful what you say/write, Macfury. She might be our next first lady. And to blast her is to blast him ................. and there goes your shot at being the US Ambassador to Canada. Paix, mon ami.


You know I can't get over all this flap about Melania Trump's speech. I mean do we actually think she'll be in the Oval Office making decisions.......then again, maybe the Republicans are trying to send the wrong pair of boobs to the White House.


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## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You know I can't get over all this flap about Melania Trump's speech. I mean do we actually think she'll be in the Oval Office making decisions.......then again, maybe the Republicans are trying to send the wrong pair of boobs to the White House.


Well, if you or I did this in an academic paper, it would be rejected. Their claim that these were just "common words" that just somehow fell into place in the exact same way just does not cut it. Luckily, she has now credited her two speech writers, Copy and Paste, for her inspiration. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury

Rps said:


> You know I can't get over all this flap about Melania Trump's speech. I mean do we actually think she'll be in the Oval Office making decisions...


If that routine speech were in any way plagiarized, I would certainly have turned to a more inspiring source than the dull-as-dishwater Michelle Obama.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If that routine speech were in any way plagiarized, I would certainly have turned to a more inspiring source than the dull-as-dishwater Michelle Obama.


According to Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does." Better that she place the blame on others rather than to take "credit" for this text.


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## Rps

Macfury said:


> If that routine speech were in any way plagiarized, I would certainly have turned to a more inspiring source than the dull-as-dishwater Michelle Obama.


Tell that to George Harrison who was tagged for 8 notes on My Sweet Lord!


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> If that routine speech were in any way plagiarized, I would certainly have turned to a more inspiring source than the dull-as-dishwater Michelle Obama.



Wow. Just wow. You totally miss the irony that the Republicans were praising her inspired words, which were lifted from a Democratic president's First Lady. You can't see the trees for the forest.


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## eMacMan

What amazes me is that anyone considered Michelle's version so noteworthy that they actually recalled hearing it.


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## FeXL

Rps said:


> You know I can't get over all this flap about Melania Trump's speech.


I'm with you.

If this is the worst criticism the Dems can come up with, then they really have nuttin'...


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## fjnmusic

It goes to character. Buck stops with the boss. If he or his people can lie about smaller matters, then he or his people can also lie about big ones. It goes to character, of which Trump's integrity is seriously in question. He makes bad and rash choices, as did Melania when she "wrote" this speech. I'm amazed that anyone here would defend plagiarism. 


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## FeXL

Do you really want to get into the candidate's characters?

I'm all over that. We'll compare the finalists: Bill's Wife & Trump. Just say when...



fjnmusic said:


> It goes to character.


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## Macfury

The ideas expressed here were neither noteworthy nor inspiring--just a lot of clutter dragged out of Toastmasters' volumes.

The only difference is that I could believe it to be true as applied to Donald Trump. As applied to Obama--not so much.



fjnmusic said:


> Wow. Just wow. You totally miss the irony that the Republicans were praising her inspired words, which were lifted from a Democratic president's First Lady. You can't see the trees for the forest.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

This post provided by Westwingnut on another forum website. 



> There is still mystery with the Melania Trump Speech. Here is a pretty good NY Times article:
> 
> How Melania Trump’s Speech Veered Off Course and Caused an Uproar
> 
> Since the NYT website limits free visits to 4 per month, here is the entire text:
> 
> It was the biggest speech of Melania Trump’s life, and her husband, Donald, wanted it to be perfect.
> 
> The Trump campaign turned to two high-powered speechwriters, who had helped write signature political oratory like George W. Bush’s speech to the nation on Sept. 11, 2001, to introduce Ms. Trump, a Slovenian-born former model, to the nation on the opening night of the Republican National Convention.
> 
> It did not go as planned, and it has eclipsed much of the action at the party gathering in Cleveland, where delegates on Tuesday night formally nominated Mr. Trump for president.
> 
> The speechwriters, Matthew Scully and John McConnell, sent Ms. Trump a draft last month, eager for her approval.
> 
> Weeks went by. They heard nothing.
> 
> Inside Trump Tower, it turned out, Ms. Trump had decided she was uncomfortable with the text, and began tearing it apart, leaving a small fraction of the original.
> 
> Her quiet plan to wrest the speech away and make it her own set in motion the most embarrassing moment of the convention: word-for-word repetition of phrases and borrowed themes from Michelle Obama’s speech at the Democratic convention eight years ago.
> 
> The ridicule from both Democrats and Republicans was instant and relentless, disrupting what was meant to be a high point of the convention.
> 
> It was, by all accounts, an entirely preventable blunder, committed in front of an audience of 23 million television viewers, that exposed the weaknesses of an organization that has long spurned the safeguards of a modern presidential campaign, such as the free software that detects plagiarism.
> 
> “It just shouldn’t have happened,” said Matt Latimer, a White House speechwriter for President George W. Bush. “This was an easy home run speech: a successful, attractive immigrant talking about her husband.”
> 
> Nobody seemed more startled than Mr. and Ms. Trump, who arrived in New York on Tuesday morning after a flight from Cleveland to find themselves at the center of a bizarre uproar over authenticity, plagiarism and a knotty question: Why did the wife of the Republican nominee borrow passages from the wife of the current Democratic president?
> 
> Ms. Trump spent most of Tuesday out of sight, while her husband vented his frustration and anger throughout the day.
> 
> This account of how a speech written by professionals was transformed into the problematic version delivered on Monday night at the Quicken Loans Arena is based on interviews with more than a dozen people involved in and close to the Trump campaign. Many of them spoke on the condition of anonymity to disclose details that were supposed to remain confidential.
> 
> It reinforces dominant themes of Mr. Trump’s campaign that still linger from the primary, which his team has struggled to change: a deliberately bare-bones campaign structure, a slapdash style and a reliance on the instincts of the candidate over the judgments of experienced political experts, like Mr. Scully and Mr. McConnell.
> 
> The two original speechwriters were not aware of how significantly the speech had been changed until they saw Ms. Trump deliver it on television Monday night, along with the rest of the country.
> 
> In the prime-time address, Ms. Trump unfurled a sequence of life lessons — about how “your word is your bond,” about “your dreams and your willingness to work for them,” and the “integrity, passion and intelligence” of her parents — in the same sequence and using much of the same language that Mrs. Obama employed in 2008.
> 
> Just like Mrs. Obama, Ms. Trump explained how she wanted to pass those lessons on to her children and the children of the world. And just like Mrs. Obama, she offered a gauzy invocation about the limitlessness of aspirations when they are matched by determination.
> 
> In a series of evolving explanations, Trump aides and allies dismissed the episode as a trivial distraction, alternating between outright denial that Ms. Trump’s speech had used word-for-word phrases from Mrs. Obama and blaming the news media.
> 
> “Ninety-three percent of the speech is completely different,” declared Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey. Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman, pegged the number of suspicious words at 50. “And that includes ‘ands’ and ‘thes’ and things like that,” he said on Tuesday.
> 
> Across the country, slack-jawed Republican political operatives and speechwriters expressed expletive-laden bewilderment at the organizational breakdown allowing such an episode to occur.
> 
> “It’s like some guy trying to paddle across a river in a rowboat who shoots a hole in his boat,” said Stuart Stevens, who wrote speeches for Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, throughout the 2012 campaign.
> 
> In interviews, alarmed Republican speechwriters outlined the layers of formal scrutiny, apparently disregarded by the Trump campaign, traditionally applied to almost every draft of a major convention address. They described word-by-word fact-checking by a dedicated team of experts and computer software designed to catch plagiarism. Several online programs, like DupliChecker, are available at no cost.
> 
> “It’s pretty standard,” Mr. Stevens said of the software, which detects overlap in word choice and sentence structure. “We used it.”
> 
> An urgent priority: avoiding the slightest hint of oratorical theft.
> 
> “The most cardinal rule of any speech-writing operation is that you cannot plagiarize,” said Mr. Latimer, the Bush speechwriter, who is now a partner at Javelin, a communications firm. If you do, he said, “you lose your job.”
> 
> That is unlikely to happen in the Trump campaign, which revolves around a freewheeling candidate with a fierce resistance to admitting error.
> 
> It was Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, who commissioned the speech from Mr. Scully and Mr. McConnell — and praised their draft. But Ms. Trump decided to revise it, and at one point she turned to a trusted hand: Meredith McIver, a New York City-based former ballet dancer and English major who has worked on some of Mr. Trump’s books, including “Think Like a Billionaire.” It was not clear how much of a hand Ms. McIver had in the final product, and she did not respond to an email on Tuesday.
> 
> Research for the speech, it seems, drew them to the previous convention speeches delivered by candidates’ spouses.
> 
> The Trump campaign declined to say who or how many senior campaign officials read or reviewed the speech. But when Ms. Trump and her staff had finished revising the speech, virtually all that remained from the original was an introduction and a passage that included the phrase “a national campaign like no other.”
> 
> The controversy set off by the stumble spread rapidly from the political class to average Americans: African-Americans were angry that Ms. Trump had chosen to swipe the words of the country’s first African-American first lady, especially given Mr. Trump’s hostility to President Obama. Scores of Twitter users, deploying the hashtag #famousMelaniaTrumpQuotes, began to re-attribute famous lines, like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I have a dream,” to Ms. Trump.
> 
> But the mischievous teasing at times turned serious, as blacks invoked a painful history of prominent white figures stealing the work of black artists and presenting it as their own. “I’m not surprised Melanie plagiarized from Michelle,” wrote Yasmin Yonis. “White women have spent centuries stealing black women’s genius, labor, babies, bodies.”
> 
> To many Republicans, the lapse seemed frustratingly inevitable from a candidate who has not just eschewed the backstops of a major political campaign — he has mocked them as a waste of money. His campaign slogans, “America First” and “Make America Great Again,” echoed Pat Buchanan and Ronald Reagan. His social media graphics were crowdsourced on Twitter and Reddit by an aide who formerly managed Mr. Trump’s golf club in Westchester.
> 
> The mistakes have piled up. Last summer, Mr. Trump posted on Twitter his portrait superimposed over a picture of the White House and what turned out to be a stock image of Waffen-SS troops from World War II.
> 
> But this one stung, in part because everybody was watching.
> 
> Jon Favreau, a former chief speechwriter to President Obama, was home on his couch half-following Ms. Trump’s speech on TV while catching up on work Monday night. At first, he was skeptical of the criticism.
> 
> “Everyone says, ‘You work hard,’” Mr. Favreau said, reciting a line from the speech. “Political speeches are filled with clichés that are impossible to avoid.” But when he got to Ms. Trump saying, “Your word is your bond,” Mr. Favreau recalled, he stopped short.
> 
> “I remember Michelle saying, ‘Your word is your bond,’ and thinking I’ve never heard of someone saying that in politics,” Mr. Favreau said. “That was when I knew it might have been copied.”



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## Macfury

"Your word is your bond." Most original thing I've heard all month, I'm sure the Obamas must have copyrighted it.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> "Your word is your bond." Most original thing I've heard all month, I'm sure the Obamas must have copyrighted it.



And just what do you believe the word plagiarism means exactly?


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## CubaMark

*Looks like Trump's wife is the object of a certain evangelical wingnut's loving gaze....*

*Pat Robertson Gets Creepy About Melania Trump's Looks*









Christian Conservative leader Pat Robertson discussed last night's RNC convention at the top of his TV show and the topic turned to controversy surrounding Melania Trump's speech.

Robertson agreed with many people when he said, "Trump's speechwriter should be fired for doing - or borrowing a few lines from Mrs. Obama..."

But then Robertson got creepy when he started discussing Mrs. Trump's appearance when he said, "We mentioned the language in that speech, although she was absolutely gorgeous and I think that's why they wanted to put her on. She had a beautiful dress and she's a lovely lady. Trump knows when he's got a winner."​
(Check out the creepy old guy video at: Crooks & Liars)


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## Macfury

And you thought that was worth posting because he thought she was a "lovely lady"? Leave it to "Crooks and Liars" to tease out the most important news of the day.


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## dtaylor

Rps said:


> You know I can't get over all this flap about Melania Trump's speech. I mean do we actually think she'll be in the Oval Office making decisions.......then again, maybe the Republicans are trying to send the wrong pair of boobs to the White House.





Dr.G. said:


> Well, if you or I did this in an academic paper, it would be rejected. Their claim that these were just "common words" that just somehow fell into place in the exact same way just does not cut it. Luckily, she has now credited her two speech writers, Copy and Paste, for her inspiration. Paix, mon ami.




_You say : "'Ere thrice the sun done salutation to the dawn"
And you claim these words as your own
But I've read well, and I've heard them said
A hundred times (maybe less, maybe more)
If you must write prose or poetry
The words you use should be your own
Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"_

- The Smiths, _Cemetry Gates_


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> And you thought that was worth posting because he thought she was a "lovely lady"? Leave it to "Crooks and Liars" to tease out the most important news of the day.


You may remember Pat Robertson as a 1988 Candidate for President, and an (inexplicably) enduring influential Republican voice.


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## Rps

dtaylor said:


> _You say : "'Ere thrice the sun done salutation to the dawn"
> And you claim these words as your own
> But I've read well, and I've heard them said
> A hundred times (maybe less, maybe more)
> If you must write prose or poetry
> The words you use should be your own
> Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"_
> 
> - The Smiths, _Cemetry Gates_


Mind if I use that!:lmao:


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## Dr.G.

dtaylor said:


> _You say : "'Ere thrice the sun done salutation to the dawn"
> And you claim these words as your own
> But I've read well, and I've heard them said
> A hundred times (maybe less, maybe more)
> If you must write prose or poetry
> The words you use should be your own
> Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"_
> 
> - The Smiths, _Cemetry Gates_


Good one, dtaylor. :clap:


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You may remember Pat Robertson as a 1988 Candidate for President, and an (inexplicably) enduring influential Republican voice.


Yes, of course I remember his '88 run. And he thought Melania was a "lovely lady." 

And when those two worlds collide it's a journalistic atom bomb!


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## Macfury

> kit: That's it — that's right — rattle her bones over the stones,
> she's only a beggar whom nobody owns. . . .


From _THE LION IN LOVE _
A PLAY BY 
Shelagh Delaney 
GROVE PRESS, INC. NEW YORK 
Copyright ® 1961 by Shelagh Delaney Productions Limited 



> So rattle my bones all over the stones
> I'm only a beggar-man whom nobody owns


Morrissey, _The Hand That Rocks the Cradle_


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## eMacMan

A couple of quotes from: "Pete and Arlo Together"

"He just stole from me, but I steal from everybody."
Attributed to Woody Guthrie

"My father stated it in his own musicological way: Plagiarism is basic to all culture"
Pete Seeger

Give her some credit while the combover drums up hatred and fear, she crossed both party and racial lines to steal her lines.


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## fjnmusic

So Macfury, once again, how exactly do YOU define plagiarism?


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## Dr.G.

Melania’s speech mess: Why you shouldn’t rule out that it was an inside job - Salon.com

My theory is that Corey Lewandowski is behind all of this, in that he was hired by CNN to boost ratings. And now with this "Melaniagate" situation, I believe that he is an embedded saboteur ................... on the Clinton payroll. After the election he will get a plum position with the Clinton Foundation. Just remember where you heard all this from for the first time.


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## Macfury

In literary terms, the copying of unique phrases uncredited to the originator 



fjnmusic said:


> So Macfury, once again, how exactly do YOU define plagiarism?


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In literary terms, the copying of unique phrases uncredited to the originator


Correct for academic terms as well, mon ami.


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## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fies-staffer-who-wrote-melania-trumps-speech/

The plot thickens, since she if Cory L's secret lover ............ who has a crush of Hillary Clinton. The religious right is going to have a field day with this fact.

Sadly, the line that Melania was to read saying that growing up black in Chicago was the source of her strength was deleted from the speech.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> In literary terms, the copying of unique phrases uncredited to the originator




And so how many words constitutes a "unique phrase"? When I was in school, I was taught that if you had more than two words in a row from somewhere else, you'd better acknowledge your source. Melania had well more then—some 22 out of 26 words I. The same order—and a staffer, Meredith McIver, has now claimed responsibility for the plagiarism.


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## FeXL

Chicago on the Brink



> Violence in Chicago is reaching epidemic proportions. In the first five months of 2016, someone was shot every two and a half hours and someone murdered every 14 hours, for a total of nearly 1,400 nonfatal shooting victims and 240 fatalities. Over Memorial Day weekend, 69 people were shot, nearly one per hour, dwarfing the previous year’s tally of 53 shootings over the same period. The violence is spilling over from the city’s gang-infested South and West Sides into the downtown business district; Lake Shore Drive has seen drive-by shootings and robberies.
> 
> *The growing mayhem is the result of Chicago police officers’ withdrawal from proactive enforcement, making the city a dramatic example of what I have called the “Ferguson effect.”* Since the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, in August 2014, the conceit that American policing is lethally racist has dominated the national airwaves and political discourse, from the White House on down. In response, cops in minority neighborhoods in Chicago and other cities around the country are backing off pedestrian stops and public-order policing; criminals are flourishing in the resulting vacuum. (An early and influential Ferguson-effect denier has now changed his mind: in a June 2016 study for the National Institute of Justice, Richard Rosenfeld of the University of Missouri–St. Louis concedes that the 2015 homicide increase in the nation’s large cities was “real and nearly unprecedented.” “The only explanation that gets the timing right is a version of the Ferguson effect,” he told the _Guardian_.)


M'bold.


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## Macfury

OK, and your point is?



fjnmusic said:


> And so how many words constitutes a "unique phrase"? When I was in school, I was taught that if you had more than two words in a row from somewhere else, you'd better acknowledge your source. Melania had well more then—some 22 out of 26 words I. The same order—and a staffer, Meredith McIver, has now claimed responsibility for the plagiarism.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dtaylor

Macfury said:


> kit: That's it — that's right — rattle her bones over the stones,
> she's only a beggar whom nobody owns. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> From _THE LION IN LOVE _
> A PLAY BY
> Shelagh Delaney
> GROVE PRESS, INC. NEW YORK
> Copyright ® 1961 by Shelagh Delaney Productions Limited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So rattle my bones all over the stones
> I'm only a beggar-man whom nobody own
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> [Morrissey, _The Hand That Rocks the Cradle_
Click to expand...



I suspect that the bookish Moz was reaching further back than that, whether intentional or not:

Gypsy Scholar: James Joyce et al.: "Rattle his bones"

Morrissey or Shelagh Delaney? -- Quiz


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## Macfury

Believe exactly as the Moz tells you--until he tells you something else! Brilliant lyricist, even if he's pilfering a few!



dtaylor said:


> I suspect that the bookish Moz was reaching further back than that, whether intentional or not:
> 
> Gypsy Scholar: James Joyce et al.: "Rattle his bones"
> 
> Morrissey or Shelagh Delaney? -- Quiz


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> OK, and your point is?


It's worse than the lifetime of lies from Bill's Wife, not the least of which led to Ambassador Stephens' death, among others...


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## CubaMark

*Donald Trump Reportedly Plans to Delegate All Domestic and Foreign Power to his VP*

In the week since Donald Trump declared Indiana Gov. Mike Pence his official running mate, it's become apparent that the Republican nominee for president wasn't totally enthusiastic over his religious-conservative pick. The delayed and then bungled announcement, the repeated insistence by a frustrated Trump that Pence, contrary to rumors, was in fact his first choice, and Pence's lackluster performance on the 60 Minutes interview all contributed to the speculation.

A new report from the New York Times Magazine goes behind the scenes of the VP selection process and claims that Trump's first choice was his former rival, Ohio Gov. John Kasich. Perhaps more interestingly, the report sheds light on the unprecedented level of power Trump plans to delegate to his vice president if elected. According to the Times, Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., was responsible for vetting the potential candidates. Here's a scene from one conservation he had with a Kasich adviser:

_Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?

When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.

Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?

"Making America great again" was the casual reply._​
(Mother Jones)


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## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump Reportedly Plans to Delegate All Domestic and Foreign Power to his VP*
> 
> In the week since Donald Trump declared Indiana Gov. Mike Pence his official running mate, it's become apparent that the Republican nominee for president wasn't totally enthusiastic over his religious-conservative pick. The delayed and then bungled announcement, the repeated insistence by a frustrated Trump that Pence, contrary to rumors, was in fact his first choice, and Pence's lackluster performance on the 60 Minutes interview all contributed to the speculation.
> 
> A new report from the New York Times Magazine goes behind the scenes of the VP selection process and claims that Trump's first choice was his former rival, Ohio Gov. John Kasich. Perhaps more interestingly, the report sheds light on the unprecedented level of power Trump plans to delegate to his vice president if elected. According to the Times, Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., was responsible for vetting the potential candidates. Here's a scene from one conservation he had with a Kasich adviser:
> 
> _Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?
> 
> When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.
> 
> Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?
> 
> "Making America great again" was the casual reply._​
> (Mother Jones)


No way is this true. Pence will sit in the Senate and oversee what takes place in the Senate. Trump will rule with an iron fist. Walls will be built under the watch of a new CWA (Civil Works Administration) , people will be questioned, identified and deported if need be. Re-education "camps" will be set up for those Clinton and Sanders supporters who held on to the dream of a better America. Major legislation will be rammed though Congress at a faster pace than FDR's first hundred days. Trump's own NRA (National Recovery Act) will recover America's greatness once again from the grips of the progressives. Social Security will be privatized to stimulate the stock markets that reached all time highs under the Obama administration. In short, Trump will make Pres. Calvin Coolidge's statement that "The business of America is business" finally correct once and for all. Even the Koch brothers will toast the name of Donald Trump. 

Sadly, only Kraft Cheese, the world's largest producer of pre-shredded cheese will suffer as Trump makes America "grate" again.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> OK, and your point is?



My point is that there is simply no way one could not say that this was a case of plagiarism, or that it was unintentional, even though the Trump campaign denied it for the first 36 hours or so. And the point of that is if he and his people can lie about something "small" like that, then they can lie about the big things too. Remember the case for war based on the "best intelligence" about "weapons of mass destruction" put forth by a previous Republican president? The principle is the same, even if the Donald was against the war in Iraq. It's all about integrity. 


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## Macfury

It was probably plagiarized by someone--although why they would aim so low for their source is beyond me. It's such a pathetically unimportant incident that getting to the bottom of it probably took 36 hours. I hear that the delay cost several foreign diplomats their lives.



fjnmusic said:


> My point is that there is simply no way one could not say that this was a case of plagiarism, or that it was unintentional, even though the Trump campaign denied it for the first 36 hours or so. And the point of that is if he and his people can lie about something "small" like that, then they can lie about the big things too. Remember the case for war based on the "best intelligence" about "weapons of mass destruction" put forth by a previous Republican president? The principle is the same, even if the Donald was against the war in Iraq. It's all about integrity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Works for me. Anything is better than Hillary Clinton.

Thanks to the anonymous Kasich advisor for that important quote.





CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump Reportedly Plans to Delegate All Domestic and Foreign Power to his VP*
> 
> In the week since Donald Trump declared Indiana Gov. Mike Pence his official running mate, it's become apparent that the Republican nominee for president wasn't totally enthusiastic over his religious-conservative pick. The delayed and then bungled announcement, the repeated insistence by a frustrated Trump that Pence, contrary to rumors, was in fact his first choice, and Pence's lackluster performance on the 60 Minutes interview all contributed to the speculation.
> 
> A new report from the New York Times Magazine goes behind the scenes of the VP selection process and claims that Trump's first choice was his former rival, Ohio Gov. John Kasich. Perhaps more interestingly, the report sheds light on the unprecedented level of power Trump plans to delegate to his vice president if elected. According to the Times, Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., was responsible for vetting the potential candidates. Here's a scene from one conservation he had with a Kasich adviser:
> 
> _Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?
> 
> When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.
> 
> Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?
> 
> "Making America great again" was the casual reply._​
> (Mother Jones)


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> And you thought that was worth posting because he thought she was a "lovely lady"? Leave it to "Crooks and Liars" to tease out the most important news of the day.



It was probably the "absolutely gorgeous" that sounded a little creepier than the "lovely lady" part. Interesting that you omitted that.


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## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump Reportedly Plans to Delegate All Domestic and Foreign Power to his VP*
> 
> 
> 
> In the week since Donald Trump declared Indiana Gov. Mike Pence his official running mate, it's become apparent that the Republican nominee for president wasn't totally enthusiastic over his religious-conservative pick. The delayed and then bungled announcement, the repeated insistence by a frustrated Trump that Pence, contrary to rumors, was in fact his first choice, and Pence's lackluster performance on the 60 Minutes interview all contributed to the speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> A new report from the New York Times Magazine goes behind the scenes of the VP selection process and claims that Trump's first choice was his former rival, Ohio Gov. John Kasich. Perhaps more interestingly, the report sheds light on the unprecedented level of power Trump plans to delegate to his vice president if elected. According to the Times, Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., was responsible for vetting the potential candidates. Here's a scene from one conservation he had with a Kasich adviser:
> 
> 
> 
> _Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?
> 
> 
> 
> When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?
> 
> 
> 
> "Making America great again" was the casual reply._​
> 
> 
> (Mother Jones)



Harkens back to an earlier time, don't it? When VP Cheney ran the show (though not officially) and Bush smiled for the cameras. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It was probably plagiarized by someone--although why they would aim so low for their source is beyond me. It's such a pathetically unimportant incident that getting to the bottom of it probably took 36 hours. I hear that the delay cost several foreign diplomats their lives.



Wow. You can just never be wrong when it comes to politics, hey? Must be nice to be so all-knowing. 

For the rest of us, academic dishonesty—plagiarism—is always wrong. Credit your source, though if they did that, it would be admitting that the Dem camp obviously had something good to offer. Integrity, once again.


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## Macfury

None of it matters. Who cares if Pat Robertson thinks Melania is gorgeous?



fjnmusic said:


> It was probably the "absolutely gorgeous" that sounded a little creepier than the "lovely lady" part. Interesting that you omitted that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Wow. You can just never be wrong when it comes to politics, hey? Must be nice to be so all-knowing.
> 
> For the rest of us, academic dishonesty—plagiarism—is always wrong. Credit your source, though if they did that, it would be admitting that the Dem camp obviously had something good to offer. Integrity, once again.


Statement from Meredith McIver:



> "To Whom It May Concern: My name is Meredith McIver and I’m an in-house staff writer at the Trump Organization. I am also a longtime friend and admirer of the Trump family.
> 
> "In working with Melania Trump on her recent First Lady speech, we discussed many people who inspired her and messages she wanted to share with the American people. A person she has always liked is Michelle Obama. Over the phone, she read me some passages from Mrs. Obama’s speech as examples. I wrote them down and later included some of the phrasing in the draft that ultimately became the final speech. I did not check Mrs. Obama’s speeches.
> 
> "This was my mistake, and I feel terrible for the chaos I have caused Melania and the Trumps, as well as to Mrs. Obama. No harm was meant. Yesterday, I offered my resignation to Mr. Trump and the Trump family, but they rejected it. Mr. Trump told me that people make innocent mistakes and that we learn and grow from these experiences.
> 
> "I asked to put out this statement because I did not like seeing the way this was distracting from Mr. Trump’s historic campaign for president and Melania’s beautiful message and presentation. I apologize for the confusion and hysteria my mistake has caused. Today, more than ever, I am honored to work for such a great family. I personally admire the way Mr. Trump has handled this situation and I am grateful for his understanding.
> 
> Sincerely, Meredith McIver."


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> No way is this true. Pence will sit in the Senate and oversee what takes place in the Senate. Trump will rule with an iron fist. Walls will be built under the watch of a new CWA (Civil Works Administration) , people will be questioned, identified and deported if need be. Re-education "camps" will be set up for those Clinton and Sanders supporters who held on to the dream of a better America. Major legislation will be rammed though Congress at a faster pace than FDR's first hundred days. Trump's own NRA (National Recovery Act) will recover America's greatness once again from the grips of the progressives. Social Security will be privatized to stimulate the stock markets that reached all time highs under the Obama administration. In short, Trump will make Pres. Calvin Coolidge's statement that "The business of America is business" finally correct once and for all. Even the Koch brothers will toast the name of Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, only Kraft Cheese, the world's largest producer of pre-shredded cheese will suffer as Trump makes America "grate" again.



Yep. Gittin' 'er done. 


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## Macfury

It is nice to be all-knowing. I called it plagiarism, although a sort of bottom-of-the-barrel variety. The original source material was dull as dishwater, and Melania's speech was only somewhat better.



fjnmusic said:


> Wow. You can just never be wrong when it comes to politics, hey? Must be nice to be so all-knowing.
> 
> For the rest of us, academic dishonesty—plagiarism—is always wrong. Credit your source, though if they did that, it would be admitting that the Dem camp obviously had something good to offer. Integrity, once again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Yep. Gittin' 'er done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Careful .................. anti-Trump talk like that could get you sent to one of those "re-education camps". XX)


----------



## chasMac

Dr.G. said:


> Careful .................. anti-Trump talk like that could get you sent to one of those "re-education camps". XX)


That's funny in a hypothetical way. However - The left dominate "re-education camps." My in-laws were acquainted with them in eastern Europe. Happy to say the re-education did not take.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Careful .................. anti-Trump talk like that could get you sent to one of those "re-education camps". XX)






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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Statement from Meredith McIver:


One wonders if Ms. McIver's bank account has suddenly grown two sizes bigger....



:heybaby:


----------



## Dr.G.

chasMac said:


> That's funny in a hypothetical way. However - The left dominate "re-education camps." My in-laws were acquainted with them in eastern Europe. Happy to say the re-education did not take.


Sadly, yes, chasMac. Those with progressive and liberal views have always been the ones sent to the "re-education camps", be they in Germany, Russia, et al. Still, you may imprison or even kill such a progressive-thinking and liberal person, but you can't kill of their ideas for a better world for all.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> One wonders if Ms. McIver's bank account has suddenly grown two sizes bigger....
> 
> 
> 
> :heybaby:


----------



## Macfury

I'm sure that you and _Crooks and Liars_ think so.



CubaMark said:


> One wonders if Ms. McIver's bank account has suddenly grown two sizes bigger....
> 
> 
> 
> :heybaby:


----------



## chasMac

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, yes, chasMac. Those with progressive and liberal views have always been the ones sent to the "re-education camps", be they in Germany, Russia, et al. Still, you may imprison or even kill such a progressive-thinking and liberal person, but you can't kill of their ideas for a better world for all.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Unfortunately the soviets were the vanguards of progressiveness. Good reason to be wary of progressives I guess.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> One wonders if Ms. McIver's bank account has suddenly grown two sizes bigger....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :heybaby:



Hey now! Careful with that cynicism! 


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## Macfury

chasMac said:


> Unfortunately the soviets were the vanguards of progressiveness. Good reason to be wary of progressives I guess.


The current crop of "progressives" will just keep Stalin's best ideas.


----------



## Dr.G.

chasMac said:


> Unfortunately the soviets were the vanguards of progressiveness. Good reason to be wary of progressives I guess.


No way were the Soviets "progressive". They were in it for themselves and NOT the workers. The "workers of the world" were sold a bill of goods. As my grandfather (who fled Czarist Russia in 1903 during the pogroms against Jews) used to say, "You can put a shoe in the oven but it won't come out a bagel." So, they may call themselves "progressive", but they were NOT.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The current crop of "progressives" will just keep Stalin's best ideas.


Stalin was NOT progressive.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Stalin was NOT progressive.


https://www.marxists.org/archive/malenkov/1949/12/21.htm



> *Comrade Stalin—Leader of Progressive Mankind*
> 
> Source: “Pravda Articles”, On the Occasion of the 70th Birthday of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, December 21, 1949
> Publisher: Soviet News, London, 1950
> Transcription/HTML Markup: Brian Reid
> Public Domain: Marxists Internet Archive (2008). You may freely copy, distribute, display and perform this work; as well as make derivative and commercial works. Please credit “Marxists Internet Archive” as your source.
> 
> A QUARTER of a century ago Comrade Stalin gave an oath on behalf of the Party to fulfil with credit the behests of Lenin. Comrade Stalin’s oath resounded as a fighting call to the Party, to the working class, to the Soviet people, and was a lode-star in the historic struggle to refashion social life, the struggle for the construction of Socialist society.
> 
> Comrade Stalin led our Party and the Soviet people along Lenin’s road. He upheld and developed Lenin’s theory on the possibility of the victory of Socialism in one country. Putting Lenin’s behests into practice, our Party under the leadership of Comrade Stalin, secured the Socialist industrialisation of the country and the collectivisation of agriculture, converting the Soviet Union into a great industrial and collective farm Socialist Power.
> 
> Comrade Stalin, as nobody else, profoundly understood Lenin’s inspired ideas on the Marxist Party of a new type, upheld the purity of the Marx-Engels-Lenin teaching, developed the Marxist-Leninist theory, steeled the Party in the struggle against numerous enemies, and forged and trains cadres capable of furthering the cause of our Party.
> 
> The whole world saw Stalin’s greatness at the sharp turning-points of history: in October, 1917, during the Civil War, in the years of the intervention, when together with Lenin, he led the Socialist Revolution and the struggle to defeat the enemies of the Soviet Power, and in the Great Patriotic War, when Comrade Stalin led the routing of the strongest enemies of our Motherland.
> 
> Together with the great Lenin, Comrade Stalin created the first Socialist State in the world. Under the banner of Lenin, under the leadership of Comrade Stalin, our mighty Motherland, the country of friendship among the Soviet peoples, lives, grows and becomes stronger.
> 
> During the Second World War, when the dark forces of Fascism hovered over the world and threatened to obliterate human culture, Comrade Stalin, at the head of the Soviet Union, directly led the defeat of the Hitlerite hordes, secured the victory of the peace-loving peoples, and was the recognised leader in the hard struggle to liberate mankind from the yoke of Fascism.
> 
> After the end of the Second World War, when new claimants to world domination appeared on the political horizon, Comrade Stalin called upon the peoples for resolute struggle against the instigators of a new world war, and united the peace supporters into a mighty force. Consistently and mercilessly exposing the instigators of a new war, Comrade Stalin became the head of the great movement for peace.
> 
> Comrade Stalin is rightly regarded as the great and loyal friend of the peace-loving peoples of the countries of people’s democracy, liberated from the yoke of Fascism, of the peoples of China and North Korea, who have for ever thrown off the yoke of the imperialists.
> 
> *That is why the peoples of the Soviet Union and all progressive mankind see in the person of Comrade Stalin their recognised leader and teacher. That is why today they express with particular warmth their affection and devotion to Comrade Stalin, and put on record his great services in the struggle for a happy life for the people, for peace among the nations.*


----------



## Dr.G.

Right. Pravda is the source of truth about the Soviet Union. "That is why the peoples of the Soviet Union and all progressive mankind see in the person of Comrade Stalin their recognised leader and teacher. " Tell that to the millions that he had killed.


----------



## chasMac

Dr.G. said:


> No way were the Soviets "progressive". They were in it for themselves and NOT the workers. The "workers of the world" were sold a bill of goods. As my grandfather (who fled Czarist Russia in 1903 during the pogroms against Jews) used to say, "You can put a shoe in the oven but it won't come out a bagel." So, they may call themselves "progressive", but they were NOT.


But like our leaders they thought they were progressive. Compared to the imperial court, they were indeed so. Government policy based on science. And their attempts to stifle unpalatable, or challenging ideas strike me as a core tenet of progressives. 

As for "in it for themselves" - that can be said for just about any political party.


----------



## Dr.G.

chasMac said:


> But like our leaders they thought they were progressive. Compared to the imperial court, they were indeed so. Government policy based on science. And their attempts to stifle unpalatable, or challenging ideas strike me as a core tenet of progressives.
> 
> As for "in it for themselves" - that can be said for just about any political party.


Well, I can think that I am the "all powerful and wonderful Wizard of Oz", but that does not make me so.


----------



## Macfury

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## chasMac

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I can think that I am the "all powerful and wonderful Wizard of Oz", but that does not make me so.


The term is elastic enough to include different varieties. Progressives can be oppressors at the same time. Lenin and Stalin's opposition to church and crown in an age when Europe was saturated with religion made them dangerous, flaming progressives to onlookers.


----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> The term is elastic enough to include different varieties. Progressives can be oppressors at the same time. Lenin and Stalin's opposition to church and crown in an age when Europe was saturated with religion made them dangerous, flaming progressives to onlookers.



True dat, but the Progressive Conservatives also have a long and proud tradition in Canada. Therefore, there must be something about being progressive that also appeals to conservatives. Perhaps the term has a different meaning to each person who uses it, just as the word Liberty means many things to many people. 


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## Macfury

I always saw the "progressive" side of PC as a sort of vestigial organ that needed to be removed. 



fjnmusic said:


> True dat, but the Progressive Conservatives also have a long and proud tradition in Canada. Therefore, there must be something about being progressive that also appeals to conservatives. Perhaps the term has a different meaning to each person who uses it, just as the word Liberty means many things to many people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chasMac

They adopted that moniker decades ago, and since then the term "progressive" has been co-opted by all sorts of unappealing folk. Didn't have the same connotation before, I believe it was almost solely adjectival. This makes me sad cause my favourite modern music is prog-rock. 



fjnmusic said:


> True dat, but the Progressive Conservatives also have a long and proud tradition in Canada. Therefore, there must be something about being progressive that also appeals to conservatives.


----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> They adopted that moniker decades ago, and since then the term "progressive" has been co-opted by all sorts of unappealing folk. Didn't have the same connotation before, I believe it was almost solely adjectival. This makes me sad cause my favourite modern music is prog-rock.



Well I'm still going with the meaning "looking forward" as opposed to "stuck in the past," and I certainly don't equate the term with eugenics. Progressive Conservative always meant to me "rooted in the past with an eye toward the feature." It was a nice balanced concept, to tell the truth. Prog Rock was also great stuff. Bands like Yes and Genesis are an important part of my musical upbringing as well. I guess "Liberal" is closer to the political term I'm looking for, but that can also be too limiting because of its association with only one party. So "Progressive" probably comes the closest, but I don't like that some people have such negative connotations with the term. That connotation often gets in the way of meaningful discussion. 


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## FeXL

No.

My feelings about Wiki are well known on these boards but it is expedient in this case:



> *The party adopted the "Progressive Conservative" party name in 1942 when Manitoba Premier John Bracken, a long-time leader of that province's Progressive Party, agreed to become leader of the federal Conservatives on condition that the party add Progressive to its name.* Despite the name change, most former Progressive supporters continued to support the Liberal Party of Canada or the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, and Bracken's leadership of the Conservative Party came to an end in 1948. Many Canadians simply continued to refer to the party as "the Conservatives".


M'bold.

Like many things bad about Canadian politics, the name change was simply part of a political deal.

As MF noted, it needs a name-ectomy.



fjnmusic said:


> True dat, but the Progressive Conservatives also have a long and proud tradition in Canada. Therefore, there must be something about being progressive that also appeals to conservatives.


----------



## chasMac

fjnmusic said:


> Well I'm still going with the meaning "looking forward" as opposed to "stuck in the past," and I certainly don't equate the term with eugenics. Progressive Conservative always meant to me "rooted in the past with an eye toward the feature." It was a nice balanced concept, to tell the truth. Prog Rock was also great stuff. Bands like Yes and Genesis are an important part of my musical upbringing as well. I guess "Liberal" is closer to the political term I'm looking for, but that can also be too limiting because of its association with only one party. So "Progressive" probably comes the closest, but I don't like that some people have such negative connotations with the term. That connotation often gets in the way of meaningful discussion.


But my looking forward might be your "stuck in the past." It's all progress in a manner of speaking; an end to our infatuation with the environment and identity-politics would be wonderful progress in my mind. And I'm sure Erdogan believes the changes he is trying to impose on Turkey is a form of progress.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings about Wiki are well known on these boards but it is expedient in this case:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Like many things bad about Canadian politics, the name change was simply part of a political deal.
> 
> 
> 
> As MF noted, it needs a name-ectomy.



Thanks for the historical clarification, but it gives no one the right to insult people who consider themselves to have a progressive point of view. Like I said, the Progressive Conservative party has a long and respected place in the history of Canada, your opinion notwithstanding, and certainly it has represented a balanced mindset during my entire lifetime. I'm going to guess yours as well, unless you happen to be more than 74 years old. 1942 is a lot of years ago, mom ami, and about half the entire age of this country. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> But my looking forward might be your "stuck in the past." It's all progress in a manner of speaking; an end to our infatuation with the environment and identity-politics would be wonderful progress in my mind. And I'm sure Erdogan believes the changes he is trying to impose on Turkey is a form of progress.



No argument there. That's the problem with arguments that lack clear and agreed-upon definitions. Often people find they have much more in common than what divides them, but these damn words keep getting in the way. Take "truth and reconciliation" for example. Those words can have very different interpretations depending on who's saying them. 


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## chasMac

fjnmusic said:


> No argument there. That's the problem with arguments that lack clear and agreed-upon definitions. Often people find they have much more in common than what divides them, but these damn words keep getting in the way. Take "truth and reconciliation" for example. Those words can have very different interpretations depending on who's saying them.


I must lamentably concur.


----------



## Macfury

The conservatives are now "classically liberal"--more or less. Both the Liberals and NDP are now "progressives." A small segment of the Liberal party realizes it has been hijacked and is still fighting back.


----------



## chasMac

Wish we had UKIP.


----------



## fjnmusic

This is concerning, in the land of the free, no less.



> Trump Adviser Stands by Call for Clinton to Face 'Firing Squad'
> A Donald Trump adviser is standing by his comments that Hillary Clinton should be shot by a firing squad for treason.
> 
> New Hampshire state Sen. Al Baldasaro, a Marine veteran who advises Trump on veterans' issues and has campaigned with him in New Hampshire, said in an interview with NBC News that Clinton's use of a private server should be considered treason and "as far as I'm concerned, the laws of the land on treason could be a firing squad if she's found guilty."
> 
> He first made the comments on the Jeff Kuhner Show, and when confronted with his earlier remarks he said he stood by them.
> 
> "I stand by it because treason is treason. When you take information on a server, that's a non classified server, classified info, and you've got names of American CIA, Secret Service, ambassadors or whatever and you're sharing that out there, you're giving the enemy information," Baldasaro said.
> 
> Asked to respond to Baldasaro's comments, Trump aide Hope Hicks told NBC News "No, of course Mr. Trump does not feel this way."


http://www.nbcnews.com/card/trump-adviser-stands-call-clinton-face-firing-squad-n613436


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----------



## Macfury

It isn't wrong for him to believe that Hillary Clinton is treasonous, and he happens to be correct about the range of punishment. People convicted of treason can face the death penalty. 



> 8 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
> 
> _Current through Pub. L. 114-38. _
> 
> Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, _is guilty of treason and shall suffer death_, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It isn't wrong for him to believe that Hillary Clinton is treasonous, and he happens to be correct about the range of punishment. People convicted of treason can face the death penalty.



Well then perhaps they should deal first with all of the Bush-Cheney war crimes. A lot of good soldiers were sent to their deaths for no good reason. 


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## fjnmusic

This dates back to June 20, but I still think it's pretty witty.


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## Macfury

If you believe Bush-Cheney _should have_ faced the death penalty if convicted of War Crimes, then you should have no problem with the possibility that Hillary _might have_ faced the death penalty if convicted of treason.



fjnmusic said:


> Well then perhaps they should deal first with all of the Bush-Cheney war crimes. A lot of good soldiers were sent to their deaths for no good reason.


----------



## chasMac

And let's try Asquith posthumously while we're at it.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> And let's try Asquith posthumously while we're at it.


Admiral Halsey really fouled things up--let's go for him next.


----------



## chasMac

Macfury said:


> Admiral Halsey really fouled things up--let's go for him next.


We're so sorry...


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> We're so sorry...



....if we caused you any pain 


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----------



## Macfury

Hot enough to melt butter out there. No need to put it in a pie.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Hot enough to melt butter out there. No need to put it in a pie.




Awesome! I've always wondered what that line was. 

HEADS ACROSS THE WATER! (WATER!)


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----------



## chasMac

fjnmusic said:


> Awesome! I've always wondered what that line was.
> 
> HEADS ACROSS THE WATER! (WATER!)


Really? Heads? I thought hands.


----------



## chasMac

Ah, good old mondegreen. Scuse me while I kiss this guy.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> Really? Heads? I thought hands.


Hands.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Hands.



I suppose "hands" does make more sense. Also, there's a bathroom on the right. 


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----------



## Macfury

Letting Ted Cruz deliver his sour speech at the RNC convention was brilliant. It's turned a lot of Cruz supporters into Trump supporters, without Trump having to do a thing.


----------



## fjnmusic

Three words: gay conversion therapy. It's now officially part of the party platform. That's all you need to know to understand the GOP are not playing with a full deck. 



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----------



## Macfury

OK, fjn--why not just site the passage in the RNC documents?



fjnmusic said:


> Three words: gay conversion therapy. It's now officially part of the party platform. That's all you need to know to understand the GOP are not playing with a full deck.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Letting Ted Cruz deliver his sour speech at the RNC convention was brilliant. It's turned a lot of Cruz supporters into Trump supporters, without Trump having to do a thing.


Sadly, I agree with you, Macfury. At least Cruz was true to his beliefs. Hopefully, in the end, it will be a Clinton victory and Trump can go back to his businesses and Cruz, Rubio, et al, can start to run for their nomination in 2020. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, I agree with you, Macfury. At least Cruz was true to his beliefs. Hopefully, in the end, it will be a Clinton victory and Trump can go back to his businesses and Cruz, Rubio, et al, can start to run for their nomination in 2020. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Clinton support has been eroding rapidly according to polls. I picture no presidency for Crooked Hillary.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Clinton support has been eroding rapidly according to polls. I picture no presidency for Crooked Hillary.


Well, let's agree to disagree here, mon ami. We shall see comes election day. May the best woman win. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Clinton support has been eroding rapidly according to polls. I picture no presidency for Crooked Hillary.


I wonder what they would be talking about at the RNC convention had Sanders won the primary? Most of their speeches are against Clinton. The could mock Sanders and his hair, his rumpled clothes, or even his Brooklyn accent.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> OK, fjn--why not just site the passage in the RNC documents?



I don't have access to RNC documents. Do you? Snopes describes it as "unproven" at the moment, though it was discussed in. A TIME magazine piece three days ago. 

http://www.snopes.com/rnc-reportedly-adopts-conversion-therapy-as-2016-platform-plank/


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## Macfury

I cant prove it doesn't exist, any more than I could prove it isn't part of the Democrat platform. I thought you would have something to back it up, since you made the claim, but "unproven" is certainly what I would have expected.



fjnmusic said:


> I don't have access to RNC documents. Do you? Snopes describes it as "unproven" at the moment, though it was discussed in. A TIME magazine piece three days ago.
> 
> RNC Reportedly Adopts Conversion Therapy as 2016 Platform Plank : snopes.com
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I cant prove it doesn't exist, any more than I could prove it isn't part of the Democrat platform. I thought you would have something to back it up, since you made the claim, but "unproven" is certainly what I would have expected.



Why don't you go do some research and prove my assertion wrong. You seem to have lots of time and energy for that kind of thing during your couple minutes a day on ehMac.


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----------



## Macfury

Nope. Underwriting your laziness is off the table.



fjnmusic said:


> Why don't you go do some research and prove my assertion wrong. You seem to have lots of time and energy for that kind of thing during your couple minutes a day on ehMac.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Nope. Underwriting your laziness is off the table.



And here we go again. If you want to look it up go right ahead. If you don't, fine. 


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## CubaMark

*Damnit, Ray*








:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

*Please, Lord, tell these crazed evangelicals to seek enlightenment through silent, isolated prayer, rather than contaminate politics with their ravings....*

*Falwell Jr. predicts Trump will lead "huge revolution" for conservative Christians*

Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. shared an anecdote of his late father’s final days during his speech Thursday to rally Republicans behind Donald Trump.

_“He joked with CNN that he dreamed that Chelsea Clinton had interviewed him about the three greatest threats facing this nation,” Falwell Jr. said, recalling his father’s last days in 2007. 

“He replied, those three greatest threats are Osama, Obama and yo mama. Well, Osama is now gone, Obama has six months left in his term and the only way to make America great — and one — again is to tell Chelsea’s mama, ‘You’re fired.’ 

And the only way to do that is to elect Donald Trump and Mike Pence president and vice president of the United States.”_​
(Politico)


----------



## Macfury

Man these spoofs are getting lazy... subtitles!


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Please, Lord, tell these crazed evangelicals to seek enlightenment through silent, isolated prayer, rather than contaminate politics with their ravings....*
> 
> 
> 
> *Falwell Jr. predicts Trump will lead "huge revolution" for conservative Christians*
> 
> 
> 
> Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. shared an anecdote of his late father’s final days during his speech Thursday to rally Republicans behind Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> _“He joked with CNN that he dreamed that Chelsea Clinton had interviewed him about the three greatest threats facing this nation,” Falwell Jr. said, recalling his father’s last days in 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> “He replied, those three greatest threats are Osama, Obama and yo mama. Well, Osama is now gone, Obama has six months left in his term and the only way to make America great — and one — again is to tell Chelsea’s mama, ‘You’re fired.’
> 
> 
> 
> And the only way to do that is to elect Donald Trump and Mike Pence president and vice president of the United States.”_​
> 
> 
> (Politico)



Donald Trump is about the furthest thing from a Christian imaginable. Whereas Jesus is a share the wealth, feed the homeless, care for the sick kind of guy, Trump typifies the me first mantra of the super rich. He will destroy every social program he can get his hands on. America is in for a rough road ahead if he become POTUS. Rougher than the US under Hillary. 


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## Macfury

Are you kidding? Trump promised to leave entitlements alone, although I doubt that the current level of payouts is sustainable. Study up, man!



fjnmusic said:


> Donald Trump is about the furthest thing from a Christian imaginable. Whereas Jesus is a share the wealth, feed the homeless, care for the sick kind of guy, Trump typifies the me first mantra of the super rich. He will destroy every social program he can get his hands on. America is in for a rough road ahead if he become POTUS. Rougher than the US under Hillary.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Damnit, Ray*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:


:lmao::clap::lmao:

Feel the Bern ................ just don't cross the streams.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Man these spoofs are getting lazy... subtitles!


I would have liked to have had sound as well. Still, it was funny if you know the context of the movie.


----------



## Macfury

This is a great line!



CubaMark said:


> He replied, "those three greatest threats are Osama, Obama and yo mama."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is a great line!


Great line .............. GREAT speech. Longest in history, and he borrowed some small bits from FDR, Reagan, John Kennedy, Hitler, Calvin Coolidge, TR, and even Bernie Sanders. A great speech. Luckily, it will be a speech that will never be plagiarized by anyone outside of the Trumpublican Party of America. :clap::clap:

He has my vote. "My only regret is that I have but one vote to give to my country." 

So, let's ALL make America great again. 

(One question -- when did America stop being great?)


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

It takes a couple of minutes to get going (Jon is a bit rusty after a year away from the desk, after all), but he finishes strong:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## SINC

Good grief, he is still as bad as he ever was.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> It takes a couple of minutes to get going (Jon is a bit rusty after a year away from the desk, after all), but he finishes strong:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Most Excellent!!! :clap: Bang on!


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> It takes a couple of minutes to get going (Jon is a bit rusty after a year away from the desk, after all), but he finishes strong:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Awesome! Still got it. 


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## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> It takes a couple of minutes to get going (Jon is a bit rusty after a year away from the desk, after all), but he finishes strong:


:clap::lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Most Excellent!!! :clap: Bang on!


Great stuff. :clap::lmao::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Awesome! Still got it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true, Frank. Wish that they had their own shows again, just like the old days.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> :clap::lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


Right on, brother. A great week of comedy for Colbert.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Happy days are here again .....................


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNaDrnxp3L0

Trump just outdid Citizen Kane .....................


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## fjnmusic

A simple rule in revenge politics: discredit and crush anyone who might be critical of you. 










http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/07/trump-goes-nuts-post-convention-press-conference


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## Dr.G.

"A simple rule in revenge politics: discredit and crush anyone who might be critical of you." He learned it well, mon ami. Just wait until the presidential debates when he takes shots at Clinton. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> "A simple rule in revenge politics: discredit and crush anyone who might be critical of you." He learned it well, mon ami. Just wait until the presidential debates when he takes shots at Clinton. Paix, mon ami.



With the difference being that Hillary actually knows how to debate. Trump only knows how to take cheap shots. He has no actual knowledge of the Constitution he would be sworn to uphold. But she has to be careful not to come across as smarmy or snooty; a lot of people already see her as to uppity, and they relate to Trump because they see him as one of them. Minus the multi-billion dollar bank account of course.


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Trump Goes Nuts in Post-Convention Press Conference | Mother Jones


From the link:



> Wondering what Trump is doing on the first day of the General Election? Currently, he's insisting that Ted Cruz's father may have killed JFK
> 
> — Kevin Feeney (@KevinMFeeney) July 22, 2016





> This press conference is bat**** and that’s saying something, considering, well, you know.
> 
> — Anthony De Rosa (@Anthony) July 22, 2016





> Trump reiterating that he wants to demand cash tribute from Japan in exchange for military protection.
> 
> — Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) July 22, 2016
> 
> He’s now adding Germany, South Korea, and Saudi Arabia to his list of targets.
> 
> — Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) July 22, 2016





> TWICE the RNC displayed tweets from white supremacists in the convention hall.
> 
> TWICE.
> 
> In case you're wondering if it's Trump's party now.
> 
> — Jesse Berney (@jesseberney) July 22, 2016


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> With the difference being that Hillary actually knows how to debate. Trump only knows how to take cheap shots. He has no actual knowledge of the Constitution he would be sworn to uphold. But she has to be careful not to come across as smarmy or snooty; a lot of people already see her as to uppity, and they relate to Trump because they see him as one of them. Minus the multi-billion dollar bank account of course.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, Hillary may know how to debate, and she has experience and facts on her side, but Trump will bury her in bluster and half truths ............. and a possible insult or two. She will go down in each debate, fighting the good fight .......... but losing in the final analysis. If Trump can get my vote after being a firm Sanders supporter, he will sweep the nation. We shall see. Paix, mi amigo.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> From the link:


Well, Trump picked up a key endorsement today. David Duke, who is now running for the Senate in Louisiana, has thrown his support behind Trump once again. He will be a good ally if he should win the seat in the Senate. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, Hillary just chose Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia. He is one of only 20 Americans to have been a mayor, a governor and in the US Senate, and he speaks fluent Spanish. He is the safe choice for her.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Hillary just chose Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia. He is one of only 20 Americans to have been a mayor, a governor and in the US Senate, and he speaks fluent Spanish. He is the safe choice for her.




Si. There are a lot of Spanish speakers in the U, S and A, amigo.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Si. There are a lot of Spanish speakers in the U, S and A, amigo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. But I think that she chose him based on his experience and the fact that they get along well together.


----------



## Dr.G.

Wonder if Pres. Trump will be as great a president as FDR? Sadly, Pres. Trump will only be able to serve two terms in office. Such is Life.


----------



## Dr.G.

Maybe Pres. Trump will be even greater than FDR, America's best president. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

Trumponomics 101:










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## fjnmusic

From another forum on the same subject:



Rick Kitchen said:


> The Washington Post runs a full page editorial on the dangers of a Trump presidency.







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## chasMac

Thing is: not one single person who'd contribute to Trump's election would read a post editorial. Classic example of preaching to the converted.


----------



## chasMac

My take: With the exception of the coasts, Yanks are xenophobic in the same sense Aztecs were to Spaniards or Britons to Saxons or Byzantines to Turks.


----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> My take: With the exception of the coasts, Yanks are xenophobic in the same sense Aztecs were to Spaniards or Britons to Saxons or Byzantines to Turks.



I fear you may be right. And there sure is a LOT of xenophobia. 


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## Macfury

chasMac said:


> My take: With the exception of the coasts, Yanks are xenophobic in the same sense Aztecs were to Spaniards or Britons to Saxons or Byzantines to Turks.


Well, you've got some agreement from fjn on that!


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Well, you've got some agreement from fjn on that!


Macfury, let's you and me be the ones who set the gold standard for agreement. Now that we are both in line with president-to-be Trump leading the Trumpublican Party to victory in November, let's just sing his praises and let the others follow our guidance. We shall be a shining light .............. a beacon calling all to our shores and our city on the hill ........... a thousand points of light ......... Since you were first to drink the Kool Ade for The Donald, I shall let you lead our movement and show the others here in ehMacLand the wisdom of your ways. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, let's you and me be the ones who set the gold standard for agreement. Now that we are both in line with president-to-be Trump leading the Trumpublican Party to victory in November, let's just sing his praises and let the others follow our guidance. We shall be a shining light .............. a beacon calling all to our shores and our city on the hill ........... a thousand points of light ......... Since you were first to drink the Kool Ade for The Donald, I shall let you lead our movement and show the others here in ehMacLand the wisdom of your ways. Paix, mon ami.



Gosh, I am beginning to see the light myself. His Holiness, the Great Hairpiece, really does have a plan for America. Soon Trump Steaks will be feasted upon at every BarBQ in the land, Trump water will quench the thirst of citizens from coast to coast, and Millions will be granted degrees from Trump University without ever really having to study anything. In this way, Trump will begin to make America great again! 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Gosh, I am beginning to see the light myself. His Holiness, the Great Hairpiece, really does have a plan for America. Soon Trump Steaks will be feasted upon at every BarBQ in the land, Trump water will quench the thirst of citizens from coast to coast, and Millions will be granted degrees from Trump University without ever really having to study anything. In this way, Trump will begin to make America great again!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Praise the Lord .............. Frank has seen the light. Our prodigal son has returned to the flock. :clap::clap:


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

'Bout right . . .


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> 'Bout right . . .


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

President-to-be Trump's sermon on the mount -- "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. To the Hippites and Yippites who did riot at the '68 Democratic Convention, I say unto you 'Come into my tent'. To the Bernites who fell under the spell of Sanders I say unto you "I am your voice now ........ I am your father". To the Clintonites I say unto you 'You day of judgement is nearly upon you. Woe unto you who votes for Hilliary. Je me souviens."

Who knew that Trump spoke French????


----------



## Dr.G.

Tim Kaine took the stage alongside Hillary Clinton in Miami Saturday and offered his first greeting to voters as a vice presidential nominee -- in Spanish.

"Bienvenidos a todos," the Virginia senator said, a phrase that translates to "welcome to everyone."

He keeps this up and he is going to find himself on the other side of Trump's wall when Trump becomes president.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> He keeps this up and he is going to find himself on the other side of Trump's wall when Trump becomes president.


Not sure if Trump has critical mass yet, but I think this is one U.S. election where no one wants either candidate.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> President-to-be Trump's sermon on the mount -- "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. To the Hippites and Yippites who did riot at the '68 Democratic Convention, I say unto you 'Come into my tent'. To the Bernites who fell under the spell of Sanders I say unto you "I am your voice now ........ I am your father". To the Clintonites I say unto you 'You day of judgement is nearly upon you. Woe unto you who votes for Hilliary. Je me souviens."
> 
> 
> 
> Who knew that Trump spoke French????




I dunno, Marc. Sounds a little too charitable to be authentic Trump scripture. "You will have no other Donalds before me" would be more like it. 


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> He keeps this up and he is going to find himself on the other side of Trump's wall when Trump becomes president.


Along with all of the 'gifts" he accepted while in office...


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Not sure if Trump has critical mass yet, but I think this is one U.S. election where no one wants either candidate.


The "silent majority" shall rise up, just like they did in 1968, and elect Trump. Then, America shall begin to be great again.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I dunno, Marc. Sounds a little too charitable to be authentic Trump scripture. "You will have no other Donalds before me" would be more like it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Careful, Frank. Talk like that could get you placed in a re-education camp. When Trump declares Canada the 51st state, in order to get to our fresh water, it shall be the people like you who mocked him that will be the first in line. Sadly, I shall not be able to help you in these matters. Bonne chance, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Along with all of the 'gifts" he accepted while in office...


True. All those gifts he received from the folks in Honduras when he was on missionary work were never declared when he reentered the US. :greedy:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...aign-seems-to-compare-donald-trump-to-hitler/

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

Talk about Kasich skating on thin ice!!!!!!!!!    XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

I am worried about the new hats that the Trump team is bringing out. I know that the red, white and blue hats look good is a sea of people, but the logo on each might backfire. The white ones say "Wake up and smell the coffee and burning crosses" and the blue ones say this. I do NOT this it wise to suggest people start to think about what a Trump vote means in the final analysis. Personally, I am just going to vote for him without thinking.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Careful, Frank. Talk like that could get you placed in a re-education camp. When Trump declares Canada the 51st state, in order to get to our fresh water, it shall be the people like you who mocked him that will be the first in line. Sadly, I shall not be able to help you in these matters. Bonne chance, mon ami.



 good point


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> good point
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, "smarten up" and get with the program ............. all aboard the Trump Train and the Trumpublican Party. On to Little Bighorn ............... on to victory. Excelsior.


----------



## fjnmusic

As a comic in all seriousness for a moment (as Bobby Bittman used to say) this Trump U stuff sure sounds like a scheme that may affect his Great Donaldness. Thanks to WestWingNut on another forum. 



westwingnut said:


> Judge Curiel denies Trump U motion to dismiss case






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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> As a comic in all seriousness for a moment (as Bobby Bittman used to say) this Trump U stuff sure sounds like a scheme that may affect his Great Donaldness. Thanks to WestWingNut on another forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course it's a scheme and a scam. How do you think that wealth is created and maintained? It's all part of "the deal". :greedy: XX) :greedy: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

So essentially Trump increased buying power, allowing this guy to buy a tin of beans and a chunk of salami for a buck!


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


In Trump we trust ............. all others pay cash.


----------



## fjnmusic

God Bless Trumperica, Our Home Sweet Home! 


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> In Trump we trust ............. all others pay cash.


I think the greatest fear with "The Donald" as Prez is he might do a good job! For political parties having someone like him run rough shod over their party lines and policies is frightening indeed.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> God Bless Trumperica, Our Home Sweet Home!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen, Brother. :clap:


Where is Kate Smith now that we need her.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEJo7x9y3D4[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I think the greatest fear with "The Donald" as Prez is he might do a good job! For political parties having someone like him run rough shod over their party lines and policies is frightening indeed.


"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror of Donald Trump which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance, and to make America great again."


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think the greatest fear with "The Donald" as Prez is he might do a good job! For political parties having someone like him run rough shod over their party lines and policies is frightening indeed.


It's astonishing to watch the Dems attack Trump on the grounds that he wants to be less involved in foreign wars--after BO and Hillary bollixed up Egypt and Libya; that he might appease the Russians (after Obama left Syria to the Russians); or that he might cause a nuclear war--after Obama gave nukes to Iran; or that he doesn't care about workers, after the Dems (and some Republicans) have been driving down the price of American labour by encouraging illegal immigration. Trump has snookered them on almost every plank.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's astonishing to watch the Dems attack Trump on the grounds that he wants to be less involved in foreign wars--after BO and Hillary bollixed up Egypt and Libya; that he might appease the Russians (after Obama left Syria to the Russians); or that he might cause a nuclear war--after Obama gave nukes to Iran; or that he doesn't care about workers, after the Dems (and some Republicans) have been driving down the price of American labour by encouraging illegal immigration. Trump has snookered them on almost every plank.


Right on, Brother Macfury. We can't take another term of Pres. Obama. America needs to get back on the right track and ride into the sunset of greatness. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Some very strong convention bounce number for Mr. Trump who now leads in several polls.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Some very strong convention bounce number for Mr. Trump who now leads in several polls.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It was only a matter of time before average Americans saw the light and came over to the Dark Side. President Trump ............. has a nice ring to it don't you think, mon ami?


----------



## Rps

I'm sorry I must have not got the memo that Obama gave nukes to Iran.......


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> It was only a matter of time before average Americans saw the light and came over to the Dark Side. President Trump ............. has a nice ring to it don't you think, mon ami?


Let's see who his Cabinet is. He trouble that I see is that the general populace see social media as bonafide news, and Trump knew how to run a media campaign. Smacks of Kennedy don't you think?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I'm sorry I must have not got the memo that Obama gave nukes to Iran.......


The text of the Iran nuclear deal provides a pathway for Iran to develop nuclear weapons within 10 years. Following the candid interview given by Obama security advisor Ben Rhodes, it was learned the deal was sold under false pretenses and was designed to allow the US to exit the Middle East by filling the power vacuum with Iran and Russia. Iran has already violated the terms of the deal by firing guided missile systems essential to delivering a nuclear payload, but these violations have been ignored.


----------



## fjnmusic

By the way, Bernie Sanders has endorsed Hillary, but he has not actually conceded. There's a difference. Officially, Bernie is still in the race to become POTUS. We shall see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> By the way, Bernie Sanders has endorsed Hillary, but he has not actually conceded. There's a difference. Officially, Bernie is still in the race to become POTUS. We shall see.


Under what circumstances could he become president? 

Can Joe Frazier still win the 1975 World Heavyweight Championship because he did not concede?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Let's see who his Cabinet is. He trouble that I see is that the general populace see social media as bonafide news, and Trump knew how to run a media campaign. Smacks of Kennedy don't you think?


It makes no difference who is in his cabinet, Rp. Trump will run the show and get America moving once again ............. and make America great once again. Drink the Kool Ade and get with the program. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Under what circumstances could he become president?
> 
> Can Joe Frazier still win the 1975 World Heavyweight Championship because he did not concede?


With Ali gone, Smokin' Joe could make a comeback ....................


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> It makes no difference who is in his cabinet, Rp. Trump will run the show and get America moving once again ............. and make America great once again. Drink the Kool Ade and get with the program. Paix, mon ami.


Well then, do I order in litres or quarts?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well then, do I order in litres or quarts?


Just take a sip and keep quiet. Enjoy the show and await the Trump train rolling though Detroit. Be sure to wave to him for me. Merci, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/

An interesting article.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Just take a sip and keep quiet. Enjoy the show and await the Trump train rolling though Detroit. Be sure to wave to him for me. Merci, mon ami.


Might be able to see him as they have already started building the wall!


----------



## screature

So much concern about nothing we can do anything about and so little concern about local, provincial and federal politics at home. It becomes tiresome. Pay more attention to what you can do at home and Canada would be better off for it.

I know this is just idle banter and you are all entitled to it, but to me me it just comes across as intellectual masturbation. No one in power in the US will ever see your posts or take them into consideration. No seed of change will be spread. So if you win a point you just got off, but it will affect nothing.

As you can tell by my previous posts I am critical of the focus of the threads here and that is my right. You all can post whatever you want. It does not mean I can not be critical of your focus. I am not in favour of the American Political thread being so dominant, it makes us seem like out home grown political concerns are less of a problem, at least to me.

The US will do whatever the US wants and we will have to deal with it. At this point in time we know what their two options will be and depending on your political beliefs the pros and cons.

I highly doubt that the US gives one s**t about who was elected PM in our last election.


----------



## Macfury

I'll bet the US doesn't care who is elected in Canada, but I also really doubt that Canadian politicians are visiting EhMac to take the pulse of the nation and planting our seeds of change either. I care who is elected in the US as it will have a big effect on our economy.


----------



## chasMac

screature said:


> ...
> I know this is just idle banter and you are all entitled to it, ...


It's shooting the breeze. I honestly wouldn't overthink it. Like drawing room chats from time immemorial. I can't even influence my community association, and that is politics at arm's length. Doesn't stop me from bitching and moaning.


----------



## fjnmusic

chasMac said:


> It's shooting the breeze. I honestly wouldn't overthink it. Like drawing room chats from time immemorial. I can't even influence my community association, and that is politics at arm's length. Doesn't stop me from bitching and moaning.



Good point chasMac. Sometimes it's helpful to read other Canadian's opinions on US politics. You certainly won't hear much on CNN. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Might be able to see him as they have already started building the wall!


XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'll bet the US doesn't care who is elected in Canada, but I also really doubt that Canadian politicians are visiting EhMac to take the pulse of the nation and planting our seeds of change either. I care who is elected in the US as it will have a big effect on our economy.


Very true, Macfury. A Clinton victory = disaster for North America. A Trump victory = "happy days are here again"

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH01FhqMdc8[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqsT4xnKZPg[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Happy Days indeed!





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dismayed by Trump, Bloomberg will endorse Clinton - The Globe and Mail

A traitor to the 1% class.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Happy Days indeed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Not very accurate, historically speaking. They left out how he helped to pull the US our of the Great Depression, and led the US in WWII. Still, who knew that FDR could use a rodeo rope in this way. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

John Doyle: TV ratings for the RNC suggest Trump fatigue has set in - The Globe and Mail

What do people who watch TV know?????????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not very accurate, historically speaking. They left out how he helped to pull the US our of the Great Depression, and led the US in WWII. Still, who knew that FDR could use a rodeo rope in this way. :clap:


I'm glad you watched it that far, Dr. G!


----------



## Macfury

That was almost a given. Bloomberg has been a RINO for years. Glad he's finally gone home!



Dr.G. said:


> Dismayed by Trump, Bloomberg will endorse Clinton - The Globe and Mail
> 
> A traitor to the 1% class.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That was almost a given. Bloomberg has been a RINO for years. Glad he's finally gone home!


Well, he is a disgrace to the billionaire class.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm glad you watched it that far, Dr. G!


Watched it all the way. Have to admit I did not understand the very last 10 seconds with the makeup.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., you didn't watch the conclusion including the Japanese attack on the White House and FDR's battle with a secret agent:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., you didn't watch the conclusion including the Japanese attack on the White House and FDR's battle with a secret agent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Macfury, I shall watch it tomorrow. Watching Bernie Sanders right now. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win | MICHAEL MOORE


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> 5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win | MICHAEL MOORE



Sad, but I see his point. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sad, but I see his point.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Of course you see his point, Frank. Luckily, you are very astute when it comes to politics. So, don't be sad ......... rejoice. Your soul has been saved. As it is written "For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul as he tries to see a camel through the eye of a needle?" Welcome to the Dark Side. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> 5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win | MICHAEL MOORE


He's probably right, but his reasoning is really off kilter. I snorted coffee when I got to this part:



> And then you listen to Hillary and you behold our very first female president, someone the world respects, someone who is whip-smart and cares about kids, who will continue the Obama legacy because that is what the American people clearly want!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's probably right, but his reasoning is really off kilter. I snorted coffee when I got to this part:


Very true, Macfury. Why would Americans want "...someone who is whip-smart and cares about kids, who will continue the Obama legacy"??? Why on earth would Americans want the continuation of a growing economy, and certainly why would Americans want someone who cared about children??????? Hopefully, Pres. Trump will do away with child labor laws ....... then we won't be hearing about a $15 minimum wage, but rather, "how low can you go"? So much for Michele Obama's "When they go low, we go high" comment. And, someone has to do the hard labor of the 11 immigrants America sends back to Latin America. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Someone whip-smart would have done a better job hiding her e-mail scams. It's unlikely that Hillary could do much worse than an economy in which the number of workers employed is the same as in 2008--but I give her credit that she might be able to. 



Dr.G. said:


> Very true, Macfury. Why would Americans want "...someone who is whip-smart and cares about kids, who will continue the Obama legacy"??? Why on earth would Americans want the continuation of a growing economy, and certainly why would Americans want someone who cared about children??????? Hopefully, Pres. Trump will do away with child labor laws ....... then we won't be hearing about a $15 minimum wage, but rather, "how low can you go"? So much for Michele Obama's "When they go low, we go high" comment. And, someone has to do the hard labor of the 11 immigrants America sends back to Latin America. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Two thoughts that I thought would never approach thinking about...... Gary Johnson and 15% popular opinion.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Two thoughts that I thought would never approach thinking about...... Gary Johnson and 15% popular opinion.


Seriously, there are few people who could stomach a Libertarian platform because they perceive the gravy train is giving them more than it takes.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Seriously, there are few people who could stomach a Libertarian platform because they perceive the gravy train is giving them more than it takes.


It's not the platform but the choice of someone else. I have often wondered about legitimate 3rd parties in the U.S. I can see the merits to restricting the number of parties to two......look at our situation with 5 main parties.....but maybe those who are disenchanted with the Dems and the Repubs would look at a third party. Johnson is running about 10% in popular vote right now. If he get 15, which might happen after the Dem convention the debates would be interesting. I remember fondly when Jack Layton was told that you can sit at the big boy table but be quiet while the real party leaders are talking......what did Canada do, many voted for Layton. Trump and Clinton maybe at the big boy table but many do not like or trust them. Remember Layton's famous " I know you may not like us but give us a chance, just hold your nose and vote"


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Remember Layton's famous " I know you may not like us but give us a chance, just hold your nose and vote"


Happened in Alberta, and now I can smell the stench of the Notley Regime as far as Ontario.


----------



## Macfury

America has become a nation of takers. A debate in which Johnson describes plans to cut government spending by 30% will not help his party. 



Rps said:


> It's not the platform but the choice of someone else. I have often wondered about legitimate 3rd parties in the U.S. I can see the merits to restricting the number of parties to two......look at our situation with 5 main parties.....but maybe those who are disenchanted with the Dems and the Repubs would look at a third party. Johnson is running about 10% in popular vote right now. If he get 15, which might happen after the Dem convention the debates would be interesting. I remember fondly when Jack Layton was told that you can sit at the big boy table but be quiet while the real party leaders are talking......what did Canada do, many voted for Layton. Trump and Clinton maybe at the big boy table but many do not like or trust them. Remember Layton's famous " I know you may not like us but give us a chance, just hold your nose and vote"


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Someone whip-smart would have done a better job hiding her e-mail scams. It's unlikely that Hillary could do much worse than an economy in which the number of workers employed is the same as in 2008--but I give her credit that she might be able to.


Clinton would crush this robust growth on the US economy with the implementation of a $15 minimum wage and paid family leave. Back in the days, women had babies out in the fields or on the production lines. Those were real women back then. And, what is all this talk about paternity leave for men???????????? They were there when it counted, so keep them on the job working for "The Man".


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Two thoughts that I thought would never approach thinking about...... Gary Johnson and 15% popular opinion.


Interesting. He is gaining in the polls.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Seriously, there are few people who could stomach a Libertarian platform because they perceive the gravy train is giving them more than it takes.


Sadly, all too true. Far too many Americans have forgotten JFK's plea of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country." People are expecting handouts these days, just like the banks and investment houses needed handouts back in 2008-09.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> It's not the platform but the choice of someone else. I have often wondered about legitimate 3rd parties in the U.S. I can see the merits to restricting the number of parties to two......look at our situation with 5 main parties.....but maybe those who are disenchanted with the Dems and the Repubs would look at a third party. Johnson is running about 10% in popular vote right now. If he get 15, which might happen after the Dem convention the debates would be interesting. I remember fondly when Jack Layton was told that you can sit at the big boy table but be quiet while the real party leaders are talking......what did Canada do, many voted for Layton. Trump and Clinton maybe at the big boy table but many do not like or trust them. Remember Layton's famous " I know you may not like us but give us a chance, just hold your nose and vote"


Well, TR's Progressive Party (aka The Bull Moose Party) got more votes than Taft and the Republican Party got in the 1912 US Presidential election.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> America has become a nation of takers. A debate in which Johnson describes plans to cut government spending by 30% will not help his party.


Where does he propose cutting this 30%?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Where does he propose cutting this 30%?


He originally proposed 43%, but I have heard reports that the number is now 30%.

Gary Johnson on the Issues


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Well, TR's Progressive Party (aka The Bull Moose Party) got more votes than Taft and the Republican Party got in the 1912 US Presidential election.


Wasnt TR and his party more like how we think the Democrat are today. Back then weren't the Dems very much how we think the Repubs are today? From what I have read, egotist that he was, TR was actually a very forward thinking president.....I'm sure many today would have called him a socialist.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> He originally proposed 43%, but I have heard reports that the number is now 30%.
> 
> Gary Johnson on the Issues


Well let's see. The Detroit Public Education system is in debt to $1 billion dollars, since Detroit has only about 650,000 in population that number seems amazing. So he could cut one F35 from his budget! Let's see, the U.S. has a couple of multi billion dollar aircraft carriers that can't sail.....maybe cutting those would help. I know, how about give foreign aid I. raw American made goods rather than just plain dollars. How about ensuring companies that receive governmental handouts are actually held to agreements which benefit the country in the long term rather than just one or two financial quarters. I am sure we could start a thread and just list smaller initiatives which would save millions in budgets. So if they want to, they can.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well let's see. The Detroit Public Education system is in debt to $1 billion dollars, since Detroit has only about 650,000 in population that number seems amazing. So he could cut one F35 from his budget! Let's see, the U.S. has a couple of multi billion dollar aircraft carriers that can't sail.....maybe cutting those would help. I know, how about give foreign aid I. raw American made goods rather than just plain dollars. How about ensuring companies that receive governmental handouts are actually held to agreements which benefit the country in the long term rather than just one or two financial quarters. I am sure we could start a thread and just list smaller initiatives which would save millions in budgets. So if they want to, they can.


70% of the federal budget is devoted to entitlements and income security while 6% is interest on the national debt. You would have to eliminate the defense department and all all other spending and then lop 20% off entitlements to achieve the 43% figure.


----------



## fjnmusic

How Trump will win: this article is a sobering reflection on Trump's campaign and how it has defied the odds at every step of the way. Unlike the verbal irony we use here, Dr. G, to downplay the seriousness of a Trump victory, there is a very good chance it will happen.l according to this writer. Take a read, folks, if you have the time; it's well worth it. 

http://www.c2cjournal.ca/2016/07/how-trump-wins/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> 70% of the federal budget is devoted to entitlements and income security while 6% is interest on the national debt. You would have to eliminate the defense department and all all other spending and then lop 20% off entitlements to achieve the 43% figure.


You're right, but their budget, like most, is divided between mandatory and discretionary. Almost half of the discretionary is military. As for entitlements, do you class healthcare, pensions, education and social assistance as entitlements....if so, then yes, some of the recipients could feel the pain. You could also look at the funding in tariff sensitive areas like agriculture and lumber.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You're right, but their budget, like most, is divided between mandatory and discretionary. Almost half of the discretionary is military. As for entitlements, do you class healthcare, pensions, education and social assistance as entitlements....if so, then yes, some of the recipients could feel the pain. You could also look at the funding in tariff sensitive areas like agriculture and lumber.


I agree with Johnson that government has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Tariffs are simply a tax increase, although a better form of taxes in that you can avoid them by not buying those items.

76% is mandatory--entitlements and interest. 16% is military. The remaining 8% is discretionary.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He originally proposed 43%, but I have heard reports that the number is now 30%.
> 
> Gary Johnson on the Issues


"•Balance budget by cutting entitlements AND Defense."
"•Eliminate corporate income tax as real way to create jobs. (Jun 2011)" 
"•Lower the tax burden; eliminate corporate tax. (May 2011) "

Well, this would go a long way to meet those cuts, Macfury.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You're right, but their budget, like most, is divided between mandatory and discretionary. Almost half of the discretionary is military. As for entitlements, do you class healthcare, pensions, education and social assistance as entitlements....if so, then yes, some of the recipients could feel the pain. You could also look at the funding in tariff sensitive areas like agriculture and lumber.


Those people living on the funds from "healthcare, pensions, education and social assistance" have been draining the treasury dry for too long. Drastic cuts here could save billions. As Gov. Johnson proposed "•Marijuana is safer than alcohol. (Aug 2012) " So, free pot could "ease their pain and suffering" once the tap is turned off to these leeches.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I agree with Johnson that government has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Tariffs are simply a tax increase, although a better form of taxes in that you can avoid them by not buying those items.
> 
> 76% is mandatory--entitlements and interest. 16% is military. The remaining 8% is discretionary.


True. The US government spends WAY too much. It can slash spending on social programs, cut spending a bit on the military, and tax the sale of pot and alcohol to balance the budget. Case closed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Wasnt TR and his party more like how we think the Democrat are today. Back then weren't the Dems very much how we think the Repubs are today? From what I have read, egotist that he was, TR was actually a very forward thinking president.....I'm sure many today would have called him a socialist.


The Bull Moose Party was more like the Bernie Sanders vision for the Democratic Party. The Republicans then, as today, would shun TR. The Dems would oppose him, as they did Sanders. He and Sanders would have made a great ticket together. Bully ...................


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well let's see. The Detroit Public Education system is in debt to $1 billion dollars, since Detroit has only about 650,000 in population that number seems amazing. So he could cut one F35 from his budget! Let's see, the U.S. has a couple of multi billion dollar aircraft carriers that can't sail.....maybe cutting those would help. I know, how about give foreign aid I. raw American made goods rather than just plain dollars. How about ensuring companies that receive governmental handouts are actually held to agreements which benefit the country in the long term rather than just one or two financial quarters. I am sure we could start a thread and just list smaller initiatives which would save millions in budgets. So if they want to, they can.


Detroit got itself into this mess and they will have to get themselves out of the mess. The unions bled them dry, pensions are killing them, and their tax base went elsewhere. Now, if they bulldoze most of the city, making Detroit into a plush resort and splash park, the rich folks from Windsor, ON could use it as a place to go and get away from the heat and humidity of Windsor.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Says He Heroically Avoided Capture in Vietnam by Staying in U.S. - The New Yorker

Well, this explains Trump's view about John McCain. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hn-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/

And this is why Trump is about to be elected president and McCain lost.


----------



## Rps

Dr G, I am starting a campaign to have Prime Minister Trudeau annex Detroit. We have a bridge, we have a tunnel, we could bring those poor Detroiters over, welcome them as refugees, give them Canada Goose jackets, free housing and medical. Since many say they will leave the U.S. If Teump wins, we could get a head start on things.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr G, I am starting a campaign to have Prime Minister Trudeau annex Detroit. We have a bridge, we have a tunnel, we could bring those poor Detroiters over, welcome them as refugees, give them Canada Goose jackets, free housing and medical. Since many say they will leave the U.S. If Teump wins, we could get a head start on things.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

The Democrat establishment in Detroit will have a new industry to replace car making--they can breed economic refugees.


----------



## Dr.G.

George Will: Trump Doesn't Want to Release Tax Returns "Because He Is Deeply Involved In Dealing With Russia" | Video | RealClearPolitics

When Trump becomes president, George Will be have his taxes audited .................. and face jail time.


----------



## Dr.G.

David Frum's Republican soul is having a very dark night - Home | The Sunday Edition | CBC Radio

A traitor to the conservative cause. His mother would be proud.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hotel fights back after Donald Trump threatens to not pay - CNNPolitics.com

"Trump maintains that he pays for adequate service and even pays extra when work is performed exceptionally well. " They shall regret this when Trump becomes president and Putin comes to visit and wants to see Roanoke, VA.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> David Frum's Republican soul is having a very dark night - Home | The Sunday Edition | CBC Radio
> 
> A traitor to the conservative cause. His mother would be proud.


Frum really needs to become a Democrat. That time has long passed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Frum really needs to become a Democrat. That time has long passed.


True. He can join George Will on the Bright Side of the street. Trump does not need his kind on the Dark Side.


----------



## Macfury

George Will once called Ronald Reagan a threat to the Republican Party but later came around. 




Dr.G. said:


> True. He can join George Will on the Bright Side of the street. Trump does not need his kind on the Dark Side.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> George Will once called Ronald Reagan a threat to the Republican Party but later came around.


Well, now he is anti-Trump. So, the enemy of our candidate is our enemy. Maybe Pres. Trump will get him to work on building the Wall?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, now he is anti-Trump. So, the enemy of our candidate is our enemy. Maybe Pres. Trump will get him to work on building the Wall?


Will should build a wall around Bill Kristol.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Will should build a wall around Bill Kristol.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

Not everyone is happy with Donald Trump's campaign.

"The creator of the viral pro-Trump act ‘USA Freedom Kids’ now plans to sue the campaign"

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.was...-now-plans-to-sue-the-campaign/?client=safari


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

If you link something like the _Washington Post_, try to include an explanatory paragraph fjn--the big papers limit users to 10 free peeks a month and I use up that many looks just at EhMac.


----------



## fjnmusic

Well okay then. 



> Within hours of their performance at a Donald Trump rally in Pensacola, Fla., last January, the U.S.A. Freedom Kids were a sensation.
> 
> You remember the video: Three preteen girls in star-spangled outfits crisply working through simple choreography as they lip-synced an upbeat update to "Over There."
> 
> That infectious performance kicked off a flurry of media appearances. The Freedom Kids told "Inside Edition" that Trump told them that he planned to listen to their CD all night. The group, which had been around for about 2½ years by that point, was a viral sensation largely inextricable from Trump himself.
> 
> Now, though, the relationship is different. Jeff Popick, father of the smallest Freedom Kid and author of "Freedom's Call" (the song performed at the Trump rally), told The Washington Post by phone on Monday that he planned to file a lawsuit against the campaign for violating its agreement with the group.
> 
> 
> "This is not a billion-dollar lawsuit," Popick said. "I'm doing this because I think they have to do the right thing. And if this means having to go through the court system to enforce them doing the right thing, then that's what I have to do. I'm not looking to do battle with the Trump campaign, but I have to show my girls that this is the right thing."
> 
> Related: Five questions we still can’t answer about Donald Trump’s charity donations
> 
> Popick is quick to explain that the agreement was not written down, but, instead, involves promises from various agents of the Trump campaign which he says were then broken.
> 
> It started in Pensacola. When Popick first reached out to the Trump campaign about performing, he spoke with various people including former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. His understanding from the campaign was that the Kids would make two appearances in Florida, where Popick lives. The first event didn't come to fruition, and Popick says he asked for $2,500 in payment for the second performance, in Pensacola. The campaign made a counter-offer: How about a table where the group could presell albums? Popick took the deal.
> 
> When they arrived at the venue, though, there was no table, Popick says. The result was "complete chaos," he said. "They clearly had made no provisions for that."
> 
> Popick, believing that he was owed some alternate compensation, tried to contact the campaign afterward, without luck. In addition to costs spent on promotional materials for the nonexistent table, Popick says, he also lost several promotional opportunities due to confusion over his relationship with the campaign.
> 
> 
> When Trump made the sudden decision to skip the January Fox News debate and instead hold an event for veterans, a representative of the campaign called Popick to see if the Freedom Kids might perform. The call came the day before the event, Popick says, which was being held in Des Moines at 6:30 p.m. With the promise that the exposure from the event would be "huge," Popick readily agreed, and the kids and their parents packed up for a direct flight to Chicago and a long drive to Iowa.
> 
> It wasn't to be. When the plane landed, Popick had a message from the campaign staffer indicating that there was a change of plan. The campaign invited the performers to attend the rally, which they did, in their outfits. The campaign asked Popick not to talk to the media, he says, but then gave them seats within arm's length of the press. "They just were constantly coming over, wanting pictures," Popick said of the news media. "They wanted to take pictures, they wanted to ask questions — and I had to be a real jerk." The cost of the flights, rental car and hotel were all absorbed by Popick.
> 
> Related: Donald Trump used money donated for charity to buy himself a Tim Tebow-signed football helmet
> 
> After that, he kept reaching out "again and again and again and again," without luck. He was passed around between staffers; calls went unreturned even after calls were promised. Emails Popick sent to the campaign (which he shared with The Post) detail the interaction between himself and the campaign and his ultimate request. "We are now asking and DEMANDING for what has been promised to us and is now long-overdue (and has been rightly earned by us); that is, a performance at the convention," an email dated July 9 reads. "Or, be made whole."
> 
> An email to the campaign requesting their understanding of the agreement was not returned by our deadline.
> 
> 
> "These are guys that insist they're straight shooters," Popick said, "'You may not like what we're going to say, but we mean what we say and we say what we mean' — and they just would not say anything of any substance!"
> 
> "I've invested a lot of time, effort, money," he continued, "and it's just been complete silence."
> 
> It's worth noting that Popick's story mirrors analysis of Trump's record in working with small business owners, some of whom allege that the Republican nominee failed to live up to financial and other commitments he'd made to them.
> 
> Related: Trump announced his gifts to veterans. Here’s what we learned.
> 
> Popick has consulted with an attorney who thinks he has a case. "We are owed compensation or, as the agreement is, a performance. That's what the agreement was," he said. "In lieu of compensation, in lieu of monetary compensation, that we would have this performance. It was largely a verbal contract, but a contract nonetheless and on two different occasions." He expects to file the lawsuit within a few weeks.
> 
> Popick came into the relationship as a Trump fan. "I grew up in New York, where he was sort of a celebrity before he was a celebrity," Popick said. "I admired what he was able to accomplish. I read all of his books at this point back probably decades. ... I was a fan before he was a candidate."
> 
> He's not certain, though, if he's still a fan.
> 
> "At this point, my position is that I have no position, really," Popick said. "What he's done to my group or what he's not done for my group doesn't necessarily make him the best candidate, it doesn't make him the worst candidate. I still have to mull that over. He might still be the best candidate as president of the United States — or not."
> 
> 
> "What I think I've learned," Popick added, "is that I'm not qualified to be a political commentator."
> 
> If you're curious, the album will be out in early September. "Freedom's Call," which included the line "President Donald Trump knows how to make America great," will not be on it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Thanks! Sounds more like confusion than dishonesty.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Thanks! Sounds more like confusion than dishonesty.



Also sounds like Trump is a cheap sonofabitch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Not everyone is happy with Donald Trump's campaign.
> 
> "The creator of the viral pro-Trump act ‘USA Freedom Kids’ now plans to sue the campaign"
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.was...-now-plans-to-sue-the-campaign/?client=safari
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let them sue him. The case will be tied up in court for years.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Also sounds like Trump is a cheap sonofabitch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do you think he got as rich as he is now? :greedy:


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> How do you think he got as rich as he is now? :greedy:



Exactly. There's a reason that the rich stay rich, and it ain't charity. That's why DT is such an odd choice for POTUS—he has no interest in serving anyone. He wants to rule. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. There's a reason that the rich stay rich, and it ain't charity. That's why DT is such an odd choice for POTUS—he has no interest in serving anyone. He wants to rule.


Because the rich are ba-a-a-a-a-a-d people.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Exactly. There's a reason that the rich stay rich, and it ain't charity. That's why DT is such an odd choice for POTUS—he has no interest in serving anyone. He wants to rule.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


President Calvin Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business." America does best when the wealthy gain more wealth and allow some of it to trickle down to the masses.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Because the rich are ba-a-a-a-a-a-d people.


:lmao::lmao: Good one, mon ami. Thank God for the wealthy in America and here in Canada.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Entitlements have to be cut to balance the budget to allow for tax cuts for the 1% and lower corporate taxes. It will all be there in the Trumpublican platform, which will be published on the first Wednesday in November.


----------



## CubaMark

*There's being a blowhard, and there's being a bigot with a TV time slot. What a complete and totally disconnected from reality moron is Bill O'Reilly:*

*O'Reilly: Slaves who built White House were 'well-fed'*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.





During "The O'Reilly Factor" Tuesday night, the top-rated cable news host said working conditions were relatively favorable for slaves who helped build the White House more than 200 years ago.

"Slaves that worked there were well-fed and had decent lodgings provided by the government, which stopped hiring slave labor in 1802," O'Reilly explained. "However, the feds did not forbid subcontractors from using slave labor.

"So, Michelle Obama is essentially correct in citing slaves as builders of the White House, but there were others working as well," the one-time history teacher concluded.

"Got it all? There will be a quiz."

His commentary followed Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention on Monday night.

"I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves," the first lady said in her keynote address. "I watch my daughters — two beautiful, intelligent, black young women — playing with their dogs on the White House lawn."​
(The Hill)

*One of the many responses to this jackass on Twitter:*


-Audra McDonald​


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *There's being a blowhard, and there's being a bigot with a TV time slot. What a complete and totally disconnected from reality moron is Bill O'Reilly:*
> 
> 
> 
> *O'Reilly: Slaves who built White House were 'well-fed'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During "The O'Reilly Factor" Tuesday night, the top-rated cable news host said working conditions were relatively favorable for slaves who helped build the White House more than 200 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> "Slaves that worked there were well-fed and had decent lodgings provided by the government, which stopped hiring slave labor in 1802," O'Reilly explained. "However, the feds did not forbid subcontractors from using slave labor.
> 
> 
> 
> "So, Michelle Obama is essentially correct in citing slaves as builders of the White House, but there were others working as well," the one-time history teacher concluded.
> 
> 
> 
> "Got it all? There will be a quiz."
> 
> 
> 
> His commentary followed Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention on Monday night.
> 
> 
> 
> "I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves," the first lady said in her keynote address. "I watch my daughters — two beautiful, intelligent, black young women — playing with their dogs on the White House lawn."​
> 
> 
> (The Hill)
> 
> 
> 
> *One of the many responses to this jackass on Twitter:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Audra McDonald​



They may have been slaves, but they were well cared for slaves. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> They may have been slaves, but they were well cared for slaves.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bill gets it, just like Trump. They make a good pair of right thinking individuals.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not sure what's expected here. Was he not supposed to talk about the history at all?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure what's expected here. Was he not supposed to talk about the history at all?


True ............ but it helps if you get the history correct. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ............ but it helps if you get the history correct. Paix, mon ami.


I'm still not sure I understand. While slavery was an appalling chapter in world history (still is actually), are people saying that the slaves who built the White House were treated as badly as other slaves? I have never actually thought about who built it at all.

_Edit: _I looked up some history on the construction and the conclusion seems to be that there is not enough surviving information to determine whether the slaves here were treated better or worse than other slaves. 

Don't know what sources O'Reilly relied on, but willing to hear him out.


----------



## fjnmusic

I think the operative word here is "slaves." 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I think the operative word here is "slaves."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. They did not choose this labor. John Adams was appalled at the living conditions of both the White House and those who were still building it when he took office as the second president of the US.


----------



## chasMac

I fear he may have just lost the Ukrainian vote:

Donald Trump Appears to Back Russia's Annexation of Ukraine's Crimea - The Atlantic


----------



## Macfury

From that article:



> “If Trump is elected in November and is true to his pledge, then few of NATO’s 28 members will qualify for U.S. support in the event of a war. Only the U.S., Greece, the U.K., Estonia, and Poland meet NATO’s guideline that defense spending constitute 2 percent of GDP.”


----------



## chasMac

I don't understand how that refutes the article's title, or Trump's apparent sentiment regarding annexation.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> I don't understand how that refutes the article's title, or Trump's apparent sentiment regarding annexation.


It doesn't refute it. I am shocked at how many NATO nations are freeloaders.

Regarding Crimea I was never really convinced one way or the other that it should not return to Russia. The reporting on it was never clear enough that I could decide whether it was democratically supportable.


----------



## eMacMan

chasMac said:


> I fear he may have just lost the Ukrainian vote:
> 
> Donald Trump Appears to Back Russia's Annexation of Ukraine's Crimea - The Atlantic


The Ukraine is truly a weird meld. Part Ukrainian and part Russian with the Crimea being about 90% Russian. A mixture as volatile as Poland and Germany, yet somehow they were fairly peacefully co-existing until the CIA staged its coup in Feb 2014.

The intent seems to be to provoke Russia into WW-III. Hillary seems to like that idea and wants to do everything she can to make things worse.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The Ukraine is truly a weird meld. Part Ukrainian and part Russian with the Crimea being about 90% Russian. A mixture as volatile as Poland and Germany, yet somehow they were fairly peacefully co-existing until the CIA staged its coup in Feb 2014.
> 
> The intent seems to be to provoke Russia into WW-III. Hillary seems to like that idea and wants to do everything she can to make things worse.


This is the problem. It seemed likely that outside forces were at work there. Given the nasty turn of the Ukraine government at the time, I can truly understand Russians in Crimea asking to be rescued.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> This is the problem. It seemed likely that outside forces were at work there. Given the nasty turn of the Ukraine government at the time, I can truly understand Russians in Crimea asking to be rescued.


I can only imagine what would happen if the US came in and re-installed Harper as PM. Then Harper decreed that only English would be spoken in Quebec. I am pretty sure that the Quebecers would be very pissed and want nothing more to do with Canada. I am also sure that it would be a lot more than 50%+1 who wanted out!


----------



## FeXL

So, anybody paying any attention to the train wreck known as the DNC? The dual fences (oh, the iron...). The walkouts. The protests & shouting matches by their own. The forced movement of whites to the back of the black resistance demonstration lineup. The Wikileaks release & associated racism, lies & fallout. Bernie wanting a private plane in return for his endorsement of Bill's Wife. 

Beautiful. I jes' luvs it when they start to eat their own.

And, the Narcissist In Chief, in a speech allegedly nominating Bill's Wife, referred to himself 119 times.

Watch Obama Refer to Himself 119 Times During Hillary Nominating Speech



> In total, we counted 119 times Obama referred to himself during his speech ostensibly about Hillary Clinton.


And, every night of the DNC, Trump's numbers have gone up. Perhaps the people are finally clueing in to Bill's Wife's lies. Not only that, but did you see that Bill was up giving a speech about all of his wife's accomplishments? Again, the irony of people applauding _that_ guy.

The Clinton Foundation getting investigated. Bill's Wife suddenly admitting her emails are a “national security issue.”

It's turning out to be a helluva summer.

Trump 2016!!!


----------



## Macfury

Such a dismal show. I could barely stomach a moment of the Dem convention.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Such a dismal show. I could barely stomach a moment of the Dem convention.


True. Sadly, they are going to ride this wave of optimism and hope for America right on to victory in November.  Trump will be trounced. Still, at least he woke America up to the disaster that awaits them if the Mexican Wall is not built, Muslims are not identified and kept out of the US, illegal immigrants and their US born children are not deported out of the US, a round-up of assault weapons takes place, the uber-wealthy have their wealth taxed, regardless of where it is hidden, etc, etc, etc. America then becomes a more inclusive and open society, just like Canada, and we all know what a train wreck Canada has become since PM Trudeau was elected. :-(


----------



## chasMac

Macfury said:


> This is the problem. It seemed likely that outside forces were at work there. Given the nasty turn of the Ukraine government at the time, I can truly understand Russians in Crimea asking to be rescued.


Considering Ukraine's ethnic mix, Russia has some more 'rescuing' to do.


----------



## Dr.G.

New York Daily News On 'Treasonous' Donald Trump: Lock Him Up!

Wow!!!!!!!!! If The Donald loses the support of the NY Daily News, who felt that Nixon and Reagan were a bit too liberal for their times, then he is doomed in NYC. If he loses the support of the NY Post, Rupert Murdoch's paper, then he might as well pack it in.


----------



## Macfury

NYDN has been against him for quite some time.



Dr.G. said:


> New York Daily News On 'Treasonous' Donald Trump: Lock Him Up!
> 
> Wow!!!!!!!!! If The Donald loses the support of the NY Daily News, who felt that Nixon and Reagan were a bit too liberal for their times, then he is doomed in NYC. If he loses the support of the NY Post, Rupert Murdoch's paper, then he might as well pack it in.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> NYDN has been against him for quite some time.


Sadly, all too true. The NY Daily News is going against it's roots ............ they supported Joe McCarthy and his witch hunt. Now they are turning on The Donald.


----------



## Dr.G.

Father of slain Muslim US soldier to Donald Trump: 'You have sacrificed nothing and no one' - CNNPolitics.com

Donald Trump says he would like to 'hit' DNC speakers who disparaged him - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting contrast of jabs.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News skipped some big moments at Democratic convention - Jul. 29, 2016

Good for them. They are not called Faux News for nothing. Why show anti-Trump diatribes, even if the person giving the speech is knowledgeable and a true patriot?????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Moody's: Hillary Clinton's economy would create 10.4 million jobs in 4 years - Jul. 29, 2016

Is that all??????????? A Trump presidency will achieve this in the first 30 days of his administration. With all the hispanic deportees there will be millions of jobs to fill.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Moody's: Hillary Clinton's economy would create 10.4 million jobs in 4 years - Jul. 29, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all??????????? A Trump presidency will achieve this in the first 30 days of his administration. With all the hispanic deportees there will be millions of jobs to fill.




Easy there, mon ami, or we'll have to start calling you Dr. MacG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Moody's: Hillary Clinton's economy would create 10.4 million jobs in 4 years - Jul. 29, 2016
> 
> Is that all??????????? A Trump presidency will achieve this in the first 30 days of his administration. With all the hispanic deportees there will be millions of jobs to fill.


Moody's was the same group that rated those mortgage derivatives as sound investments.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News Plays Benghazi Commercial Over Khizr Khan's Anti-Trump Speech At The Democratic National Convention

https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/...-anti-trump-speech-democratic-national/212012

Good for them. I can almost hear the echo of a statement aimed at Sen. Joe McCarthy ............ "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" How could this man question Trump's having read the US Constitution?????????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Moody's was the same group that rated those mortgage derivatives as sound investments.


True. Moody's is in the back pocket of the Clinton Foundation. A Trump presidency will sweep away unemployment at a rate equivalent to the number of Hispanics sent back across the border. Happy days shall be here once again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Clinton vs. Trump as commander in chief: A world of difference - CNN.com

An interesting article. One advantage I give to Trump that he is more likely to get America involved in a major conflict, and thus, be a real commander in chief. Clinton will use diplomacy to keep America out of wars, much like Woodrow Wilson. What Trump needs right now is another William Randolph Hearst to help get America into a war. Those were the "good old days".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Clinton vs. Trump as commander in chief: A world of difference - CNN.com
> 
> An interesting article. One advantage I give to Trump that he is more likely to get America involved in a major conflict, and thus, be a real commander in chief. Clinton will use diplomacy to keep America out of wars, much like Woodrow Wilson. What Trump needs right now is another William Randolph Hearst to help get America into a war. Those were the "good old days".


Clinton has already overseen the US diplomatic disasters in Egypt and Libya-- a taste of things to come.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Clinton has already overseen the US diplomatic disasters in Egypt and Libya-- a taste of things to come.


True. And she would also let Canada slip from the hands of the US. Trump won't!!!! Trump Claims America Should Never Have Given Canada Its Independence | BSJ


----------



## Macfury

That's no _Onion_.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's no _Onion_.


Well, let's just hope that Trump wins and carries out his wish to have Canada as the 51st state. Of course then you won't have Trudeau to complain about ......... but at least he will see to it that the NDP and Liberals are sent to the political hinterland. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, let's just hope that Trump wins and carries out his wish to have Canada as the 51st state. Of course then you won't have Trudeau to complain about ......... but at least he will see to it that the NDP and Liberals are sent to the political hinterland. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



Excellent point, Dr. G. If America simply annexes Canada then there would be no need to build a second wall on the Canada/US border. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I would support it only in the case of an NDP victory at the federal level.



fjnmusic said:


> Excellent point, Dr. G. If America simply annexes Canada then there would be no need to build a second wall on the Canada/US border.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> True. And she would also let Canada slip from the hands of the US. Trump won't!!!! Trump Claims America Should Never Have Given Canada Its Independence | BSJ


This is a joke right? I mean if this was a true belief of his WOW! If he was any dumber you would have to water him........maybe using water from Flint.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> This is a joke right? I mean if this was a true belief of his WOW! If he was any dumber you would have to water him........maybe using water from Flint.


It's weak satire from a wannabe Onion site.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Excellent point, Dr. G. If America simply annexes Canada then there would be no need to build a second wall on the Canada/US border.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Who gets the Canadian and the American beer??????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would support it only in the case of an NDP victory at the federal level.


Trump will crush them from the top down ............ federal, provincial and local.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> This is a joke right? I mean if this was a true belief of his WOW! If he was any dumber you would have to water him........maybe using water from Flint.


Don't mess with the Donald.


----------



## fjnmusic

This guy is a all class, the best class, and shows absolute and total respect for the laws of his country.

Trump starts and ends Colorado Springs speech by ripping the local fire marshal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Caption please.












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Caption please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, all politicians have to kiss a baby or two.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/atmidnight/videos/1092671547480865/

And, we all need friends.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/atmidnight/videos/1092671547480865/
> 
> 
> 
> And, we all need friends.




I've seen this! Pretty creepy actually, though it's cool how their heads change direction. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I've seen this! Pretty creepy actually, though it's cool how their heads change direction.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Creepy? Better to be a friend of your enemy ............. better red than dead.


----------



## Dr.G.

101 shopping days until the US election day.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why Putin would be behind the DNC computer hacking - The Globe and Mail

Friends help friends get elected.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Why Putin would be behind the DNC computer hacking - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> Friends help friends get elected.



A friend helps you move. A real friend helps you move a body.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> A friend helps you move. A real friend helps you move a body.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump and RNC attack presidential debate schedule - Jul. 30, 2016

Trump should demand no presidential or vice presidential debates .................unless Ivanka and / or Milania are the moderators. This way, he will avoid a 1960 presidential debate disaster.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump and RNC attack presidential debate schedule - Jul. 30, 2016
> 
> Trump should demand no presidential or vice presidential debates .................unless Ivanka and / or Milania are the moderators. This way, he will avoid a 1960 presidential debate disaster.


It's true that Hillary's five o'clock shadow might make her look even more untrustworthy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's true that Hillary's five o'clock shadow might make her look even more untrustworthy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Wimps .................

"The Koch network has previously said they will not back Republican candidate Donald Trump, but on Saturday officials told reporters that they would not run negative Clinton spots, a position taken by some Republican groups that are uneasy with the controversial GOP standard-bearer."

Speaker Paul Ryan and other top Republicans to address Koch group - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump, scumbag extraordinaire:*

*Donald Trump to Khizr Khan, father of slain U.S. Muslim soldier: 'I've made a lot of sacrifices'*


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump, scumbag extraordinaire:*
> 
> *Donald Trump to Khizr Khan, father of slain U.S. Muslim soldier: 'I've made a lot of sacrifices'*


Do you know how much he sacrificed when he employed people and paid them their contracted wages (rather than 10 cents on the dollar)? Imagine how richer he could have been had he not made these "sacrifices"?????


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump rescued from stalled elevator - CNNPolitics.com

This proves his courage as well. Just like John McCain would not leave the Hanoi Hilton POW camp until it was his turn to leave (five years of torture), The Donald was the last to leave that elevator. That demonstrates real courage for a potential president.


----------



## Dr.G.

'Trump Bump' in Cape Breton draws tourists, but few new residents - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Give us your tired (of negative TV political ads), your poor (those workers stiffed by The Donald), your huddled masses, yearning to breath free (clean air in Nova Scotia) .........................

Five months ago ..............

CNN crew descends on Cape Breton to talk Trump - Nova Scotia - CBC News


----------



## Macfury

Barack Obama Will Be The Only President In History To Never Have A Year Of 3% GDP Growth | Zero Hedge



> Barack Obama remains solidly on track to be the only president in all of U.S. history to never have a single year when the economy grew by at least 3 percent. Every other president in American history, even the really bad ones, had at least one year when U.S. GDP grew by at least 3 percent. But this has not happened under Obama even though he has had two terms in the White House.


Hurray for BO! In the home stretch for this record!


----------



## Dr.G.

Oops. 

Donald Trump says Vladimir Putin is 'not going to go into Ukraine,' despite Crimea - CNNPolitics.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2sNWQfdfq0

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.


----------



## Macfury

Depends on whether you think Crimea is going back to Ukraine any time soon. I think it's a done deal as part of Russia.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Depends on whether you think Crimea is going back to Ukraine any time soon. I think it's a done deal as part of Russia.


True, but it would be nice to know that he understands how this situation came to be from a historical and geopolitical perspective. This makes me wonder if he will follow up on his making Canada the 51st state ................ as a way of getting our water. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> True, but it would be nice to know that he understands how this situation came to be from a historical and geopolitical perspective. This makes me wonder if he will follow up on his making Canada the 51st state ................ as a way of getting our water. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



He'll have his best people on it, and they'll look at it and recommend the best course of action, a better course of action than anybody else could make. Also keep an eye out for Trump perogies, using only the best potatoes and the best flour. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Those pierogies are for losers! Grind up Trump steaks and fill them with meat!



fjnmusic said:


> He'll have his best people on it, and they'll look at it and recommend the best course of action, a better course of action than anybody else could make. Also keep an eye out for Trump perogies, using only the best potatoes and the best flour.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> He'll have his best people on it, and they'll look at it and recommend the best course of action, a better course of action than anybody else could make. Also keep an eye out for Trump perogies, using only the best potatoes and the best flour.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True ............ and those "Trump perogies" will be "yuuuuge".


----------



## Dr.G.

Oops.

Trump 'Claims' NFL Football Contacted Him, The NFL's Smack Down Response Is Perfect

If I was his campaign manager I would just suggest that he go on a 100 day vacation to play golf in Scotland and come back to vote on Election Day. This way, he will not say anything to ruin his chances to become president.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> True ............ and those "Trump perogies" will be "yuuuuge".



Speaking of yuuuuge, this must be a first for a potential First Lady. Now those stars are definitely not Jewish stars.

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, the public went wild when Michelle Obama was seen in a sleeveless dress.

Trump adviser: Melania nude picture "nothing to be embarrassed about" - Jul. 31, 2016


----------



## Dr.G.

Just read Moody's report on how many jobs would be lost in a Trump presidency vs how many would be gained in a Clinton administration. They forgot to include the thousands upon thousands of people who would be needed to build the Trump wall at the Mexican border, the new staff that would need to be hired in the various Trump resorts to launder and iron the sheets of the KKK conventions, deportation "police" to deport the 11 million illegal immigrants, the airport and border security agents needed to keep out those who he does not want to enter the country until he can figure out "what the hell is taking place in America". These would add millions to the job roles, which Moody completely ignored.


----------



## Macfury

You've become a sudden fan of Moody's Dr. G.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You've become a sudden fan of Moody's Dr. G.


No way. A bunch of liberal-loving progressive hacks. To disrespect Trump the way they did is hinging on the criminal.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No way. A bunch of liberal-loving progressive hacks. To disrespect Trump the way they did is hinging on the criminal.


As we discussed earlier, Moody's rated the sub-prime mortgage derivatives as excellent investments.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Just read Moody's report on how many jobs would be lost in a Trump presidency vs how many would be gained in a Clinton administration. They forgot to include the thousands upon thousands of people who would be needed to build the Trump wall at the Mexican border, the new staff that would need to be hired in the various Trump resorts to launder and iron the sheets of the KKK conventions, deportation "police" to deport the 11 million illegal immigrants, the airport and border security agents needed to keep out those who he does not want to enter the country until he can figure out "what the hell is taking place in America". These would add millions to the job roles, which Moody completely ignored.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> As we discussed earlier, Moody's rated the sub-prime mortgage derivatives as excellent investments.


Yes, and they helped to lead America off of the edge. Sadly, George Bush was not president long enough to pull America away from the abyss. It was left to Pres. Obama to save America, and now, 8 years later, look at the mess the US is in. I don't even want to look at where the US stock market will open this morning after 8 years of an Obama administration.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Welcome to the dark side, Frank. As Mr. Khan said yesterday, Trump has a "dark soul", just what America needs now. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Don't be afraid to give up the good to go for the great." - John D. Rockefeller, Donald Trump's hero.


----------



## Dr.G.

Democrats would beat Donald Trump in a landslide — if only Canada joined the Union - Politics - CBC News

Did not consider this ................ so, let's keep Canada for the Canadians and let America be great with Trump as their president. We will have to make due with PM Trudeau .............. and long for the days of PM Harper. Cest la vie.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> . I don't even want to look at where the US stock market will open this morning after 8 years of an Obama administration.


Marc, there is more truth in your statement than you might know! I think the values are a cod, and a great fall is only a short step away. As an aside, the Toronto Star has a lad story on its website on whether Trump has mental problems..... timing is interesting!


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Marc, there is more truth in your statement than you might know! I think the values are a cod, and a great fall is only a short step away. As an aside, the Toronto Star has a lad story on its website on whether Trump has mental problems..... timing is interesting!


He wants to be president. No further proof of mental issues required. Double down on that for Hillary.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Democrats would beat Donald Trump in a landslide — if only Canada joined the Union - Politics - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> Did not consider this ................ so, let's keep Canada for the Canadians and let America be great with Trump as their president. We will have to make due with PM Trudeau .............. and long for the days of PM Harper. Cest la vie.



Prime Minister Pompadour definitely takes better selfies than the Orange One. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc, there is more truth in your statement than you might know! I think the values are a cod, and a great fall is only a short step away. As an aside, the Toronto Star has a lad story on its website on whether Trump has mental problems..... timing is interesting!


The Toronto Star is on the take from the Clinton Foundation. Nothing that they write against Trump can be taken seriously. Trump is the only hope for America, and will prove to be the only hope to save Canada from the clutches of the Liberal and NDP. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> He wants to be president. No further proof of mental issues required. Double down on that for Hillary.


True. They should just go to the inauguration of Trump and bypass the federal election altogether.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Prime Minister Pompadour definitely takes better selfies than the Orange One.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, and they helped to lead America off of the edge. Sadly, George Bush was not president long enough to pull America away from the abyss. It was left to Pres. Obama to save America, and now, 8 years later, look at the mess the US is in. I don't even want to look at where the US stock market will open this morning after 8 years of an Obama administration.


The US stock market will open exactly as high as the money Obama pumped into it through quantitative easing. It's where capital flees when the economy no longer attracts real investment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The US stock market will open exactly as high as the money Obama pumped into it through quantitative easing. It's where capital flees when the economy no longer attracts real investment.


Gold is the safe bet these days, Macfury. Until Trump is actually elected president there is always the possibility of the Clinton Machine stealing this election, just like in the 1960 election when the dead elected Kennedy in Chicago. So, until that time, gold is the place to go for security during unsure times. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Heard Sen. John McCain's text about the shame that Donald Trump has brought upon those serving in the military and the families of those serving in the military. Give me a break. He said that what he went through as a POW, being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton, was far more of a "sacrifice" than The Donald experienced. Trump had to use four student deferments to stay out of the draft while getting an education, and then had to suffer the pain of bone spurs in his foot to get a 4F deferment (luckily, the bone spurs did not get his taken off the baseball team, just got him out of the draft). Trump has suffered and sacrificed his entire life, and Sen. McCain keeps bringing up these five years as a POW. As I said, give me a break. Luckily, in 99 days it shall all be over. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Simpsons: Watch Homer and Marge cast their vote for Hillary Clinton | News | Culture | The Independent

If Trump loses Homer Simpson, all is lost.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Heard Sen. John McCain's text about the shame that Donald Trump has brought upon those serving in the military and the families of those serving in the military. Give me a break. He said that what he went through as a POW, being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton, was far more of a "sacrifice" than The Donald experienced. Trump had to use four student deferments to stay out of the draft while getting an education, and then had to suffer the pain of bone spurs in his foot to get a 4F deferment (luckily, the bone spurs did not get his taken off the baseball team, just got him out of the draft). Trump has suffered and sacrificed his entire life, and Sen. McCain keeps bringing up these five years as a POW. As I said, give me a break. Luckily, in 99 days it shall all be over. Paix, mes amis.



Not to mention Trump still having to suffer these insults even today from McCain and that obnoxious Khan family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Not to mention Trump still having to suffer these insults even today from McCain and that obnoxious Khan family.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. Good call, Frank. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CHQlZiJ8YM

Cute


----------



## fjnmusic

Karma is swift. 



> Presidential candidate Donald J. Trump has a history of lashing out after being attacked, but to ridicule a Gold Star Mother is out-of-bounds, said the new national commander of the near 1.7 million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States and its Auxiliary.
> 
> “Election year or not, the VFW will not tolerate anyone berating a Gold Star family member for exercising his or her right of speech or expression,” said Brian Duffy, of Louisville, Ky., who was elected July 27 to lead the nation’s oldest and largest major war veterans organization. There are certain sacrosanct subjects that no amount of wordsmithing can repair once crossed. Giving one’s life to nation is the greatest sacrifice, followed closely by all Gold Star families, who have a right to make their voices heard.”


http://www.politicususa.com/2016/08...lapse-vfw-strongly-condemns-donald-trump.html


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## fjnmusic

The Trump/Liebowsky mashup. Language warning for the easily offended.
https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q


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----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump claims the U.S. election 'is going to be rigged' - World - CBC News

"Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump suggested Monday that he fears the general election "is going to be rigged" — an unprecedented assertion by a modern presidential candidate.

Trump's extraordinary claim — one he did not back up with any immediate evidence — would, if it became more than just an offhand comment, seem to challenge the very essence of a fair democratic process.

"I'm afraid the election is going to be rigged, I have to be honest," the Republican nominee told a town hall crowd in Columbus, Ohio. He added that he has been hearing "more and more" that the election may not be contested fairly, though he did not elaborate further."

Sadly, this might be true. The Clinton Machine will be in high gear comes October to steal the election from the only person who can save America .............. and maybe the world. How sad.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., did you believe Al Gore when he claimed he had won the election?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., did you believe Al Gore when he claimed he had won the election?


Well, the votes were there for Gore, but luckily the folks in the Florida government changed things around and the US Supreme Court sided with them, allowing Bush to take the election. The rest, as they say, is history. Imagine the carbon taxes that Gore would have imposed upon the world???? The internet would be renamed the Gorenet .............. and we would not have had the various wars in the middle east that have helped so many American companies prosper. 

Hopefully, the American people will rise to the occasion and vote for Trump in such overwhelming numbers that the election can't be stolen from him. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

The Gorenet. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> The Gorenet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, he did invent the internet. This would be a great way to have direct access to all of our banking accounts so that the individual carbon taxes for each person could be debited directly from our bank accounts or pay checks.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump claims the U.S. election 'is going to be rigged' - World - CBC News
> 
> "Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump suggested Monday that he fears the general election "is going to be rigged" — an unprecedented assertion by a modern presidential candidate.
> 
> Trump's extraordinary claim — one he did not back up with any immediate evidence — would, if it became more than just an offhand comment, seem to challenge the very essence of a fair democratic process.
> 
> "I'm afraid the election is going to be rigged, I have to be honest," the Republican nominee told a town hall crowd in Columbus, Ohio. He added that he has been hearing "more and more" that the election may not be contested fairly, though he did not elaborate further."
> 
> Sadly, this might be true. The Clinton Machine will be in high gear comes October to steal the election from the only person who can save America .............. and maybe the world. How sad.


One need only look at poll results from the Democratic primaries. In states where results could be easily audited, polls and vote counts were almost identical. In states using electronic voting which could not be easily audited, vote counts skewed away from the polls and universally in favour of Hillary by as much as 17%. In any other nation a variation of more that 2% is considered clear evidence of fraud.

The DNC would appear to have a clear edge when it comes to hacking voting machines.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> One need only look at poll results from the Democratic primaries. In states where results could be easily audited, polls and vote counts were almost identical. In states using electronic voting which could not be easily audited, vote counts skewed away from the polls and universally in favour of Hillary by as much as 17%. In any other nation a variation of more that 2% is considered clear evidence of fraud.
> 
> The DNC would appear to have a clear edge when it comes to hacking voting machines.


True. Hopefully, Trump's friend Putin will lead the charge of Russian hackers to take back the stolen election. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

(CNN) — "Sixty-two years ago, Joseph Welch interrupted Wisconsin Sen. Joe McCarthy when he was in the middle of smearing Fred Fisher, a lawyer in Welch's office. Welch stopped the communist-hunting McCarthy in his tracks on national television.

"Until this moment, senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness," said Welch. "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

This was the turning point in the hysteria that McCarthy had whipped up. With half a dozen sentences, the rumpled Harvard lawyer had pierced the McCarthy bubble of fear, which had paralyzed the country for years."

This is starting to worry me. People are starting to gang up against Trump. If I were his key adviser, I would tell him to lay low for the next three months .............. no presidential debates, no public speeches, no tweets, no public comments of any kind. Let his TV ads do the talking. Then, if things don't pick up, come up with some totally outrageous item against Clinton .......... something that will deflect the attention away from him and on to her ............ such as Hillary Clinton was abducted by aliens from a distant planet beyond our solar system. Yes, that should do it.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, he did invent the internet. This would be a great way to have direct access to all of our banking accounts so that the individual carbon taxes for each person could be debited directly from our bank accounts or pay checks.




Man, you really are a Method Actor. Paix, mon ami. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> (CNN) — "Sixty-two years ago, Joseph Welch interrupted Wisconsin Sen. Joe McCarthy when he was in the middle of smearing Fred Fisher, a lawyer in Welch's office. Welch stopped the communist-hunting McCarthy in his tracks on national television.
> 
> 
> 
> "Until this moment, senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness," said Welch. "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
> 
> 
> 
> This was the turning point in the hysteria that McCarthy had whipped up. With half a dozen sentences, the rumpled Harvard lawyer had pierced the McCarthy bubble of fear, which had paralyzed the country for years."
> 
> 
> 
> This is starting to worry me. People are starting to gang up against Trump. If I were his key adviser, I would tell him to lay low for the next three months .............. no presidential debates, no public speeches, no tweets, no public comments of any kind. Let his TV ads do the talking. Then, if things don't pick up, come up with some totally outrageous item against Clinton .......... something that will deflect the attention away from him and on to her ............ such as Hillary Clinton was abducted by aliens from a distant planet beyond our solar system. Yes, that should do it.



Good advice, but alas, The Great Donald is too much of an attention whore to go quietly into that good night. He will rage, rage against the dying of the white. I mean, light.


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Man, you really are a Method Actor. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, Stanislavsky did create this technique of acting, and I am trying to develop a complete emotional identification with the part/role of a Trump supporter ........... or, have the likes of Macfury, et al, have shown me the light?


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Good advice, but alas, The Great Donald is too much of an attention whore to go quietly into that good night. He will rage, rage against the dying of the white. I mean, light.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see, mon ami. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump's draft deferments during Vietnam war drawing new scrutiny - The Globe and Mail

Now the media is hitting a new low. To demean The Donald because of his bone spurs is the lowest of journalistic slander. Luckily, this disability did not prevent him from creating the Trump Empire.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Trumpâ€s draft deferments during Vietnam war drawing new scrutiny - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> Now the media is hitting a new low. To demean The Donald because of his bone spurs is the lowest of journalistic slander. Luckily, this disability did not prevent him from creating the Trump Empire.



He suffers. He sacrifices. Like the great DiMaggio, he soldiers on.


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----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Trump's draft deferments during Vietnam war drawing new scrutiny - The Globe and Mail
> 
> Now the media is hitting a new low. To demean The Donald because of his bone spurs is the lowest of journalistic slander. Luckily, this disability did not prevent him from creating the Trump Empire.


I have to be fair to the Donald. At one time I had a letter from the Foreign Office of the Draft Board. Two pages of total gobbledy ****. Even with a couple of years of university under my belt, I could not make head nor tails of it. 

Thankfully in that era one could walk in to the US consulate office and even talk to the consulate. No strip searches or appointments were required. When asked for a translation the consul informed me that my new 1-H classification meant they had no idea what to do with someone registering through the Foreign Office. Turns out the assumption was, that those registering from abroad were diplomats kids. I was the beneficiary of what is now known as a "Clinton" deferral. Like the Donald I could not possibly produce that letter today. 

I wonder how many draft age Americans abroad relinquished their US citizenship, completely unaware of this loophole? Fortunately the US government in its infinite greed returned all those black sheep former citizens to their original status, without even bothering to inform them. It now relentlessly pursues those wicked draft dodgers for unpaid taxes and F(u)BAR penalties. All with the blessing of the Harpoon, made official on Canada Day 2014 to add insult to injury.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> He suffers. He sacrifices. Like the great DiMaggio, he soldiers on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting. However, it was Achilles Tendon Bursitis that brought Joltin' Joe down. 

"All during the spring of 1951, DiMaggio dropped hints that his upcoming season would be his last. If you counted his years in the army and his three years with the Seals, he would have been heading into his nineteenth year as a professional ballplayer.

DiMaggio’s body was beginning to break down. His constant injuries and his propensity to play with pain and push his body beyond normal limits were taking a physical toll. His left heel had been operated on in 1947, when doctors removed a three-inch bone spur. Then there was the bone spur in his right foot. His right shoulder would sometimes pop out of socket on and off the field."

While he quit to let Mickie Mantle take his spot in center field, The Donald shall never quit and no one will take his spot on center stage ............... or the Oval Office.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I have to be fair to the Donald. At one time I had a letter from the Foreign Office of the Draft Board. Two pages of total gobbledy ****. Even with a couple of years of university under my belt, I could not make head nor tails of it.
> 
> Thankfully in that era one could walk in to the US consulate office and even talk to the consulate. No strip searches or appointments were required. When asked for a translation the consul informed me that my new 1-H classification meant they had no idea what to do with someone registering through the Foreign Office. Turns out the assumption was, that those registering from abroad were diplomats kids. I was the beneficiary of what is now known as a "Clinton" deferral. Like the Donald I could not possibly produce that letter today.
> 
> I wonder how many draft age Americans abroad relinquished their US citizenship, completely unaware of this loophole? Fortunately the US government in its infinite greed returned all those black sheep former citizens to their original status, without even bothering to inform them. It now relentlessly pursues those wicked draft dodgers for unpaid taxes and F(u)BAR penalties. All with the blessing of the Harpoon, made official on Canada Day 2014 to add insult to injury.


Interesting story.

I still have my letter of application to my draft board for a Conscientious Objector classification, and the letter they sent to me after my hearing granting me a 1A0 draft status, which was non-combatant military service (i.e., a front-line para medic). I was drafted by never called up into active duty.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> He suffers. He sacrifices. Like the great DiMaggio, he soldiers on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY[/ame]

Luckily, The Donald is a fighter who shall never quit.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C1BCAgu2I8[/ame]

"Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?"

Our nation turns it's attention to Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just saw a truly touching moment on CNN from the Trump campaign stop in Virginia. A Vietnam vet gave Trump the purple heart he earned from being wounded in combat. Even Trump was moved, albeit a bit skeptical at first questioning whether the medal was real or not. Still, it showed the human side of Trump who was denied the opportunity to sacrifice his own body in combat and earn a purple heart (or two) of his own .......... all on account of bone spurs in his heel.

Ashburn, Virginia (CNN) — "A military veteran supporting Donald Trump gifted the Republican nominee his Purple Heart Tuesday, prompting Trump to say he "always wanted to get the Purple Heart" and this was "much easier" than serving in combat.

Purple Hearts are awarded to service members who suffer wounds in combat.

"Something very nice just happened to me. A man came up to me and handed me his Purple Heart," Trump told supporters at a campaign event here. "I said to him, 'Is that like the real one or is that a copy?' And he said, 'That's my real Purple Heart. I have such confidence in you.'" "


----------



## Dr.G.

George W. Bush: 'I'm worried that I will be the last Republican president' - CNNPolitics.com

Well, when the election is over, and Trump wins, he intends to change the name of the Republican Party to the Trumpublican Party ........... and rightly so.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ashburn, Virginia (CNN) — "A military veteran supporting Donald Trump gifted the Republican nominee his Purple Heart Tuesday, prompting Trump to say he "always wanted to get the Purple Heart" and this was "much easier" than serving in combat. "

Now that Trump has a purple heart of his own, his campaign is coming out with a new ad to show his patriotism. 

( Purple Hearts are awarded to service members who suffer wounds in combat. )


----------



## heavyall

eMacMan said:


> In any other nation a variation of more that 2% is considered clear evidence of fraud.


The US makes Venezuelan elections look squeaky clean.


----------



## Dr.G.

‘Get that baby out of here:' Crying infant rattles Trump at rally - The Globe and Mail

Babies cannot vote .............. what did they expect him to say?????????


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. However, it was Achilles Tendon Bursitis that brought Joltin' Joe down.
> 
> 
> 
> "All during the spring of 1951, DiMaggio dropped hints that his upcoming season would be his last. If you counted his years in the army and his three years with the Seals, he would have been heading into his nineteenth year as a professional ballplayer.
> 
> 
> 
> DiMaggio’s body was beginning to break down. His constant injuries and his propensity to play with pain and push his body beyond normal limits were taking a physical toll. His left heel had been operated on in 1947, when doctors removed a three-inch bone spur. Then there was the bone spur in his right foot. His right shoulder would sometimes pop out of socket on and off the field."
> 
> 
> 
> While he quit to let Mickie Mantle take his spot in center field, The Donald shall never quit and no one will take his spot on center stage ............... or the Oval Office.



Well, Ernest Hemingway says it was bone spurs (or at least Santiago says it in The Old Man and The Sea), so that's what Ima go with.


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Well, Ernest Hemingway says it was bone spurs (or at least Santiago says it in The Old Man and The Sea), so that's what Ima go with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly, Santiago never did get to take the Great DiMaggio out fishing with him.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, Santiago never did get to take the Great DiMaggio out fishing with him.



Perhaps if there had been a sequel...


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps if there had been a sequel...


I think it was called _Jaws_...


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps if there had been a sequel...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, there was only one Santiago ............. just like there was only one Joltin' Joe.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think it was called _Jaws_...


Not even close, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> No, there was only one Santiago ............. just like there was only one Joltin' Joe.



Well, hold on there. There was the Santiago who was not to be touched in A Few Good Men. Then there's the Camino de Santiago that was the subject of the fine Emilio Estevez film The Way. But alas you're right; Joltin' Joe has indeed left and gone away. Hey hey hey. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Well, hold on there. There was the Santiago who was not to be touched in A Few Good Men. Then there's the Camino de Santiago that was the subject of the fine Emilio Estevez film The Way. But alas you're right; Joltin' Joe has indeed left and gone away. Hey hey hey.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Santiago, the "old man and the sea" .......... who dreamt about lions.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Santiago, the "old man and the sea" .......... who dreamt about lions.



The one and only.










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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> The one and only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:lmao:

I suggest you reread the book, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you reread the book, mon ami.




Ha! I just taught it this semester. Only read it about, oh, eight times or so now. There 's a nice version narrated by Moses on YouTube. 

https://youtu.be/eB2l3DENCMQ


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Ha! I just taught it this semester. Only read it about, oh, eight times or so now. There 's a nice version narrated by Moses on YouTube.
> 
> https://youtu.be/eB2l3DENCMQ
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for this citation, Frank. Interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Ha! I just taught it this semester. Only read it about, oh, eight times or so now. There 's a nice version narrated by Moses on YouTube.
> 
> https://youtu.be/eB2l3DENCMQ
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMoIoiN5aSQ[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

We should start thinking about a Trump victory party here in ehMacLand comes Nov. Who is up for a celebration?


----------



## Dr.G.

Mike Pence breaks with Donald Trump, endorses Paul Ryan - CNNPolitics.com

Trump may regret selecting Pence just as McCain regretted selected Sarah Palin. Trump should have picked Palin for his VP running mate. Where is she these days? She has been quite quiet.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Mike Pence breaks with Donald Trump, endorses Paul Ryan - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Trump may regret selecting Pence just as McCain regretted selected Sarah Palin. Trump should have picked Palin for his VP running mate. Where is she these days? She has been quite quiet.



Palin would have seemed enlightened and educated beside Trump. Can't have a mere female show you up. Trump made the right choice in all his infinite Trumpness.


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Palin would have seemed enlightened and educated beside Trump. Can't have a mere female show you up. Trump made the right choice in all his infinite Trumpness.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We disagree here, mon ami. Pence is establishment ......... Trump and Palin are anti-establishment. No one can Trump the Trump (that would make a great bumper sticker). Actually, he should use this phrase in his inaugural address --

"And so my fellow Americans, ask not what Trump can do for you, ask what you can do for Trump. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do to prove to you that I am the president.

With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be to show all of you that no one can Trump the Trump."


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama issues 214 commutations for drug offenders - CNNPolitics.com

Has Pres. Obama never heard of Willie Horton???????????? This will doom Clinton for sure.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> We disagree here, mon ami. Pence is establishment ......... Trump and Palin are anti-establishment. No one can Trump the Trump (that would make a great bumper sticker). Actually, he should use this phrase in his inaugural address --
> 
> 
> 
> "And so my fellow Americans, ask not what Trump can do for you, ask what you can do for Trump. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do to prove to you that I am the president.
> 
> 
> 
> With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be to show all of you that no one can Trump the Trump."



Too many words with more than one syllable, unless the words are "absolute disaster." And not enough "huge" methinks. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Too many words with more than one syllable, unless the words are "absolute disaster." And not enough "huge" methinks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHTYA7OAyB8[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO_C41yuLls[/ame]


----------



## fjnmusic

Boy, looks like the Republicans are FUBAR'd after Trump's latest continued criticism of the gold star parents of Captain Khan, an Americanized Muslim soldier who died in Afghanistan in 2004. If Trump doesn't drop out, they're screwed, and if does drop out they're also screwed. The judgement of the GOP is seriously in question here. Couldn't happen to a nicer billionaire trailer park trash *******. 










http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-drop-out-options/2016/08/03/id/741897/#ixzz4GHrVssaL


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Boy, looks like the Republicans are FUBAR'd after Trump's latest continued criticism of the gold star parents of Captain Khan, an Americanized Muslim soldier who died in Afghanistan in 2004. If Trump doesn't drop out, they're screwed, and if does drop out they're also screwed. The judgement of the GOP is seriously in question here. Couldn't happen to a nicer billionaire trailer park trash *******.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABC: RNC Considering Options if Trump Drops Out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not going to happen. It is a beautiful ploy on the part of the Trump campaign. Look as if you are weak and the campaign is falling apart. Then, when Clinton's guard is down, blast her in the first presidential debate. She won't know what hit her. Then, it is all the way to the White House for Trump. Very smart on his part.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Not going to happen. It is a beautiful ploy on the part of the Trump campaign. Look as if you are weak and the campaign is falling apart. Then, when Clinton's guard is down, blast her in the first presidential debate. She won't know what hit her. Then, it is all the way to the White House for Trump. Very smart on his part.



He may need to learn some multi-syllable words first. Could make a HUGE difference. And then there's that pesky Constitution to read. I suppose he could always hire the BEST readers to summarize for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> He may need to learn some multi-syllable words first. Could make a HUGE difference. And then there's that pesky Constitution to read. I suppose he could always hire the BEST readers to summarize for him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Details, details, details .......... Don't be so fixated upon details and facts. He will start to get the presidential briefing notes pertaining to foreign policy, and they he will start to demonstrate how a real president could flex his/her muscles. By this time next week, his mastery of foreign and domestic policy, along with his expertise on fiscal policy, will be a "shock and awe" upon the American public ............ and it will take him all the way to the White House. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Everyone is saying that Trump is "getting off message". In my opinion, The Donald IS the message. He needs to control the narrative and get it focused upon his own views and his own needs, and leave the needs of the country waiting in the wings.


----------



## Dr.G.

Feel the burn .................... vote for Trump.


----------



## heavyall

fjnmusic said:


> Palin would have seemed enlightened and educated beside Trump.


To be fair, Palin would look enlightened and educated next to Clinton too.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> To be fair, Palin would look enlightened and educated next to Clinton too.



I think you're going need to explain your reasoning to justify that statement. I've seen Hillary pilloried for her lack of charm, but never for a lack of intelligence. If anything, she may have too much of the latter. 


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## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> To be fair, Palin would look enlightened and educated next to Clinton too.


Very true. And she would not muddy the campaign with facts/details/insights. As well, she can see Russia from her front porch, so that would be helpful with Trump's Putin strategy. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> I think you're going need to explain your reasoning to justify that statement. I've seen Hillary pilloried for her lack of charm, but never for a lack of intelligence. If anything, she may have too much of the latter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, I think that this distinction is obvious. A Trump-Palin ticket is heaven made. Sadly, he chose Pence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Can a rising Obama help Hillary Clinton? - CNNPolitics.com

"Can a rising Obama help Hillary Clinton?"

Does a rising tide sink all ships? Has global warming started to flood Venice? Will the sun someday run out of energy to burn? A Trump victory and a Clinton defeat becomes more of a reality each day as the "ploy" of a divided Trumpublican party lulls the Democrats into thinking that there shall be a third term to the Pres. Obama administration.


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## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lro5t2yKHT4

Trump needs to update this jingle and ride to victory in November. There shall be a new "Mr. USA" then ................. because "in your heart you know he's right."


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DhkY6d9uqQ

Trump should also use this ad to show how poorly American children can count due to the Common Core curriculum.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmN-PLrzNs

Trump could use the Ford ad from back in 1976 ................ since we can know that we can depend upon him.


----------



## Dr.G.

Today is President Obama's 55th Birthday. We think we know the gift he wants .............. and it does not rhyme with stump.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmN-PLrzNs
> 
> Trump could use the Ford ad from back in 1976 ................ since we can know that we can depend upon him.


Once the comb-over see the profits to be made by becoming part of the war machine, he will convert. The Gods of War shall triumph no matter who wins. Should it be Trump they will be dealing with a man ready and willing to see the value of graft and corruption. Should it be Hillary their work is already done.


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## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Once the comb-over see the profits to be made by becoming part of the war machine, he will convert. The Gods of War shall triumph no matter who wins. Should it be Trump they will be dealing with a man ready and willing to see the value of graft and corruption. Should it be Hillary their work is already done.


Well, Trump Munitions is a new stock that I just purchased. When he starts to sell arms to the Russians ............. as a discount .......... Trump will make even more money than he already has ................. and NONE of it will show up on his income tax form. :greedy:


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## Dr.G.

An interesting question ............

11-year-old puts Pence on the spot with question - CNNPolitics.com

....... and a dumb article. As P T Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Still, Axelrod should know better.

David Axelrod: Why Donald Trump says crazy things - CNN.com


----------



## CubaMark

*A telling article on Trump, from The Intercept:*

*Donald Trump's Spokeswoman Katrina Pierson Says A Lot of Things that are Not True*

LET THIS NEWS, and the fact that it is news, sink in: Katrina Pierson, the former Tea Party activist who is now Donald Trump’s national spokeswoman, admitted on Wednesday that Barack Obama was not the president of the United States in 2004.

The reason it was considered necessary to extract this concession to reality from Pierson is that she had insisted, during an interview with CNN the night before, that President Obama was responsible for the death of Capt. Humayun Khan, an American soldier who was killed in Iraq five years before he became commander-in-chief.

* * *​
In addition to somehow missing the fact that Obama did not assume control of the military until 2009, Pierson was also confused about a frequent right-wing talking point about how the lives of American soldiers were supposedly put at risk by a change in the U.S. military’s rules of engagement, which minimized the use of airstrikes to cut down on the killing of civilians. That change, which was introduced by the Obama administration, was part of a revised strategy for fighting the Taliban — in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

Pierson’s shaky grasp of recent American history was widely mocked on social networks, under the trending hashtag #KatrinaPiersonHistory. 

* * *​
As the blogger Charles Johnson explains, the “reports” that Khizr Khan is a secret Islamist radical started in the imagination of Walid Shoebat, a far-right blogger who is part of a network of anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists.

As to the quality of the research behind this attack on Khan, Johnson writes:

_I won’t bother quoting from this mess. Again, if you know how these people work you already know what you’ll find — Khan once wrote a paper on shariah, and that’s all it takes. They’re off, smearing Khizr Khan as a Muslim Brotherhood “plant” working with the Clinton campaign to convert the whole country to radical Islam. In this weird right-wing fantasy, Khan’s son — who was killed in Iraq warning fellow US soldiers away from an exploding vehicle — was also a secret Muslim agent who died before he could stage a jihad attack._​
Given that the Khans have endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, despite her vote in favor of the Iraq war that killed their son, it is not surprising that bloggers like Shoebat would attempt to weave them into the jihadist plots they see everywhere. The same network of bloggers has previously speculated that Clinton’s aide, Huma Abedin, was at the nexus of an Islamist plot to impose Sharia law on Americans.​
(The Intercept)


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## fjnmusic

Good work, CubaMark. It's just a shame that all those low information voters will never read it.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Good work, CubaMark. It's just a shame that all those low information voters will never read it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, better to stay in the dark than to be eliminated by the truth. Paix, mon ami.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Well, better to stay in the dark than to be eliminated by the truth. Paix, mon ami.



Better to eliminate at least once a day than be illuminated by one's eliminations. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Good work, CubaMark. It's just a shame that all those low information voters will never read it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...60ca856_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Better to eliminate at least once a day than be illuminated by one's eliminations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Bernie Sanders: I support Hillary Clinton. So should everyone who voted for me - LA Times

Well, the rats are bailing out of a sinking ship. XX)


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## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-rich-to-the-rescue/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1


"The list includes strikingly few academic policy experts, usually the bread-and-butter of campaign policy teams. Instead, the advisory team of 13 men — and no women — reflects a wide range of people from the higher echelons of American finance, including hedge fund managers and real estate investors. The median net worth of Trump's official economic advisers appears to be at least several hundred million dollars."

Finally, someone understands what Pres. Calvin Coolidge once said, namely that "The business of America is business." Let the wealth from the top 1% grow and grow and grow, and watch it trickle down to all of the rest of us.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-rich-to-the-rescue/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The list includes strikingly few academic policy experts, usually the bread-and-butter of campaign policy teams. Instead, the advisory team of 13 men — and no women — reflects a wide range of people from the higher echelons of American finance, including hedge fund managers and real estate investors. The median net worth of Trump's official economic advisers appears to be at least several hundred million dollars."
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, someone understands what Pres. Calvin Coolidge once said, namely that "The business of America is business." Let the wealth from the top 1% grow and grow and grow, and watch it trickle down to all of the rest of us.



Sort of like Golden Showers! Who wouldn't want that? Better to be pissed on than pissed off, I always say. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sort of like Golden Showers! Who wouldn't want that? Better to be pissed on than pissed off, I always say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not so. The **** coming from the 1% will be golden. We under them will reap the benefits of their largess. We are the bottom layer of the "big tent".


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## fjnmusic

Couch Commander: what to do after you're done being the POTUS. 

https://youtu.be/x6S986H29cg


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Couch Commander: what to do after you're done being the POTUS.
> 
> https://youtu.be/x6S986H29cg
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao: A tough gig to follow when you are only 55 years of age.


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## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Make him show his birth certificate ............ and his citizenship papers.


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## Dr.G.

Flowers: Melania's visa woes may be more than a silly distraction

What a waste of time. They should be looking to get Pres. Obama's college transcripts to see if they have the correct info from his so-called birth certificate.


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## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's Immigrant Wife & His Visa-Exploiting Modeling Agency | National Review

William Frank Buckley Jr., who founded National Review magazine in 1955, would be turning over in his grave if he saw how this magazine has swung to the left, demeaning the next first lady in this manner.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Flowers: Melania's visa woes may be more than a silly distraction
> 
> 
> 
> What a waste of time. They should be looking to get Pres. Obama's college transcripts to see if they have the correct info from his so-called birth certificate.



Obama: It's my birth certificate.

Lady: Is it?

Obama: Yes. It's real.

Lady: But is it?


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Obama: It's my birth certificate.
> 
> Lady: Is it?
> 
> Obama: Yes. It's real.
> 
> Lady: But is it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is different, since he was born in Kenya and had a fake Hawaiian birth certificate. Where are his high school and university transcripts? 

The National Review has gone too far with their assertion of wrong doing.


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## Dr.G.

Fair weather friends .......... Republicans warn Donald Trump: Right the ship or lose Senate - CNNPolitics.com

At least Jeb Bush's son has "seen the light" ........ Report: George P. Bush urges Republicans to back Trump - CNNPolitics.com


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Fair weather friends .......... Republicans warn Donald Trump: Right the ship or lose Senate - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> At least Jeb Bush's son has "seen the light" ........ Report: George P. Bush urges Republicans to back Trump - CNNPolitics.com



Who needs the senate anyhow? He can build you a new senate, a better senate, stocked with only the best senators. The new senate will be YUUUUGE!!


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## Dr.G.

Anti-Trump conservatives recruit candidate for WH bid - CNNPolitics.com

The plot thickens ............... I hope these so called Republicans remember the purges once Stalin took power. Pres. Trump has a long memory and the Trump movement will prevail. Trumpublican über alles.


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## Dr.G.

Harvard's Republican Club Says It Won't Endorse Trump - Fortune

Well, what do they know????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Economic Plan Calls for Every American to Inherit Millions from Father - The New Yorker

Now this makes sense ........... :clap::lmao::clap:


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## Dr.G.

50 GOP national security experts oppose Trump - CNNPolitics.com

Pseudo-intellectuals. Stalin had methods to "purge" this sort of group as well. Trump should stop reading the speeches of Hitler and focus upon the tactics of Stalin to "clean up" the government beneath him.


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## Dr.G.

Trump: 'Second Amendment people' could deal with Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

"From my cold dead hands .................................................."


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## Dr.G.

Donald Trump suggests 'Second Amendment people' can stop Hillary Clinton - World - CBC News

Why should Canadians be afraid? They will have a wall to protect them from Canadians streaming across the border "yearning to breathe free".


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump suggests 'Second Amendment people' can stop Hillary Clinton - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Canadians be afraid? They will have a wall to protect them from Canadians streaming across the border "yearning to breathe free".



Much as it is fun to joke and play devil's advocate, there is something seriously wrong with Donald Trump. I am concerned our fearless leader may not be well in the head, and that if he doesn't get some meds and perhaps intensive therapy, he may not be able to become the next president of the U, S and A after all. Godspeed, O Blessed Tangerine One. 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Much as it is fun to joke and play devil's advocate, there is something seriously wrong with Donald Trump. I am concerned our fearless leader may not be well in the head, and that if he doesn't get some meds and perhaps intensive therapy, he may not be able to become the next president of the U, S and A after all. Godspeed, O Blessed Tangerine One.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Careful what you say online about The Donald. If he starts to read Stalin's playbook, people like you are the first to occupy Gulag #13.


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## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Careful what you say online about The Donald. If he starts to read Stalin's playbook, people like you are the first to occupy Gulag #13.



Good point. But only for his health and continued well being am I concerned for our Fearless Comrade Drumpf.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Good point. But only for his health and continued well being am I concerned for our Fearless Comrade Drumpf.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK. I guess we can take that as a "Long Live Big Brother" sort of statement. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G.

"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

Great speech Melania Trump gave tonight. Sadly, it was Lincoln who first used these stirring words to end his First Inaugural Address. Still, if you are going to steal, steal from the best.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> "We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."
> 
> 
> 
> Great speech Melania Trump gave tonight. Sadly, it was Lincoln who first used these stirring words to end his First Inaugural Address. Still, if you are going to steal, steal from the best.



Maybe she figured the plagiarism police wouldn't look back that far.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Maybe she figured the plagiarism police wouldn't look back that far.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True .............. since who reads old Lincoln speeches anymore????


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting silent protester at a Trump rally. She is merely standing there, thinking back about the time she was a little girl and the progressive legislation of FDR saved her, her family, and millions of Americans from poverty. She is remembering that FDR was a great president who was making America great again. She is feeling grateful that she is still allowed to think UnTrumpian thoughts about what makes a truly great US president.


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## Dr.G.

103-Year-Old Woman Vows To Stay Alive Long Enough To Vote Against Donald Trump (VIDEO)

And she has lived through both world wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SINC

An American doctor and managing editor of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Has drawn into question Hillary Clinton's health seeking to understand if secretary Clinton is fit to be president.

*August 10th, 2016

Is Hillary Clinton Medically Unfit to Serve?

Jane M. Orient, M.D.*

Some Republicans as well as Democrats have used the term “unfit to serve” about Donald Trump, based on things he said, and what they assume he might have meant.

Surely his style can be abrasive and blunt. But a huge number of ordinary Americans cheer him, probably because he said what they were thinking. They don’t have an evil, ungenerous, uncompassionate, racist, bigoted heart, and they assume he is like them. They are sick of being pushed around and disrespected by the politically correct crowd who are hypersensitive about almost everything--but constantly spew profane, obscene, and vulgar language that demeans American and Christian culture and blames it for all the world’s evil.

In the past, others have spoken forcefully and unapologetically about things nobody wanted to hear about: Winston Churchill, for example. A lot of proper Englishmen thought he was unfit—until they saw the truth of his words.

With Trump, some people are even tossing out psychiatric diagnoses. But keep in mind that a lot of them think conservatives, Christians, and pro-life advocates are crazy too.

Strangely silent is the mainstream media about the fitness of the Democrat candidate. And causes for concern are growing. Without considering any statements she has made or positions she has taken, and without presuming to speculate on psychiatric diagnoses, one can point to certain observations.

There’s the photograph of Secretary Clinton’s difficulty walking up some steps. Now inability to climb stairs does not necessarily disqualify a person for public office. However, neither she nor people with her apparently anticipated a problem. The people helping her seem to be preventing a fall. Did she simply trip? Or was it a seizure or a stroke?

Videos widely circulated on the internet are, if authentic, very concerning. One shows prolonged, inappropriate laughter; another, strange head movements. In a third, she appeared momentarily dazed and confused, and lost her train of thought. Reportedly, she has a volcanic temper. (This is probably not new.)

A man who stays close to her, who is reportedly not a Secret Service officer, was photographed carrying something in his hand that purportedly might have been an autoinjector of Valium.

While we don’t have Mrs. Clinton’s medical records, it is widely stated that she experienced a fall that caused a concussion. Since then, she is sometimes seen wearing eyeglasses with prisms, as are used to correct double vision.

Concussions often cause traumatic brain injury, which might not be visualized on standard CT or MRI. Many of our veterans who experienced blast injury from improvised explosive devices suffer from it. These are some symptoms: difficulty thinking, attention deficits, confusion, memory problems, frustration, mood swings, emotional outbursts, agitation, headaches, difficulties with balance and coordination, and seizures. Many veterans with such an injury cannot hold a job or interact normally with their families.

Obviously, it would be very dangerous for a person subject to symptoms like this to be dealing with foreign leaders or making critical decisions. The President of the United States may have to make world-changing decisions on a moment’s notice. For example, should we launch nuclear-armed missiles? And if the Commander in Chief is confused, who will make the call?

The U.S. has had problems with incompetent leaders in the White House before. Mrs. Woodrow Wilson (the “First First Lady President”) was effectively President for the last year and a half of her husband’s term after he suffered a disabling stroke. She managed to conceal the seriousness of Wilson’s condition for a long time. This was the reason for the 25th amendment to provide for replacing the President in case of disability.

While the U.S. government knows more and more about our medical histories and other aspects of our lives, many details about the President are a secret. The press appears to care more about the tax returns of Republican candidates than the medical records of Democrat Presidents or candidates. And Secretary Clinton’s public appearances have been rather carefully controlled.

Is it conceivable that Hillary supporters would really be voting for Huma Abedin, Clinton’s top aide, or for the First First Husband President, Bill Clinton? The American people are entitled to know the objective medical facts about Secretary Clinton.

*Footnote:*

Jane M. Orient, M.D.obtained her undergraduate degrees in chemistry and mathematics from the University of Arizona in Tucson, and her M.D. from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 1974. She completed an internal medicine residency at Parkland Memorial Hospital and University of Arizona Affiliated Hospitals and then became an Instructor at the University of Arizona College of Medicine and a staff physician at the Tucson Veterans Administration Hospital. She has been in solo private practice since 1981 and has served as Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) since 1989. She is currently president of Doctors for Disaster Preparedness. Since 1988, she has been chairman of the Public Health Committee of the Pima County (Arizona) Medical Society. She is the author of YOUR Doctor Is Not In: Healthy Skepticism about National Healthcare, and the second through fourth editions of Sapira's Art and Science of Bedside Diagnosis published by Lippincott, Williams & Wilkins. She authored books for schoolchildren, Professor Klugimkopf’s Old-Fashioned English Grammar and Professor Klugimkopf’s Spelling Method, published by Robinson Books, and coauthored two novels published as Kindle books, Neomortsand Moonshine. More than 100 of her papers have been published in the scientific and popular literature on a variety of subjects including risk assessment, natural and technological hazards and nonhazards, and medical economics and ethics. She is the editor of AAPS News, the Doctors for Disaster Preparedness Newsletter, and Civil Defense Perspectives, and is the managing editor of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.


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## Dr.G.

Great!!!!!!!!!! Clinton is medically unfit .......... Trump is mentally unfit .................. where is Bernie Sanders now that we really need him???????


----------



## Dr.G.

New York Daily News calls for Donald Trump to end his presidential campaign - Aug. 10, 2016

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my lifetime (I was born just before Harry Truman was re-elected president in 1948), the NY Daily News has never been anything but a supporter of the Republican candidate for president.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> where is Bernie Sanders now that we really need him???????


He & his wife just bought a new $600,000 summer house after he conceded & she bankrupted a college & received a $200,000 parting gift...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> He & his wife just bought a new $600,000 summer house after he conceded & she bankrupted a college & received a $200,000 parting gift...


True .......... luckily the Clinton Foundation bought their home and property in Maine to allow them to buy the home in VT. As for the $200,000 "parting gift", she was an adjunct professor at Trump University's VT campus and Trump bankrupted the college not Mrs. S. :clap: :clap: :clap: 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> As for the $200,000 "parting gift", she was an adjunct professor at Trump University's VT campus and Trump bankrupted the college not Mrs. S. :clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Really? :yikes:

Curious, I had read a somewhat different version of the story...

You wouldn't be playing fast & loose with the facts now, Dr.G, would you?


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Really? :yikes:
> 
> Curious, I had read a somewhat different version of the story...
> 
> You wouldn't be playing fast & loose with the facts now, Dr.G, would you?


Me play with the facts? Never, mon ami. Of course, the same can't be said about Kit Daniels. 

We Trumpublicans have to stick together. I fear that Macfury is starting to stray from the fold and think about supporting Clinton. We have to show him the error of his ways, even if he can't vote for her. UnTrumpian thoughts can get him into trouble since he lives so close to the US border. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Secret Service spoke to Trump campaign about 2nd Amendment comment - CNNPolitics.com

Good. Trump needs to assure that he will never allow the US Secret Service to go unarmed ............ that they too have the right to own and carry guns, for both personal use and to protect the president, vice president, et al.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dan Rather calls Donald Trump's 'Second Amendment people' comments a 'new low' - Aug. 10, 2016

Again, good to hear. I respect Dan Rather (not as much as I did Walter Cronkite, but he was a good journalist). If he says that Trump has hit a new low, then there is no where to go but up. Yes, up and up and up ...................... and on to victory in November. Excelsior.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> New York Daily News calls for Donald Trump to end his presidential campaign - Aug. 10, 2016
> 
> Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my lifetime (I was born just before Harry Truman was re-elected president in 1948), the NY Daily News has never been anything but a supporter of the Republican candidate for president.


In this day and age, do you think newspapers still carry any weight with their endorsements


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> In this day and age, do you think newspapers still carry any weight with their endorsements


Rp, there are millions upon millions of New Yorkers who read the Daily News. You would have to have grown up with the 7 major papers in NYC when I was growing up to see them down to 3 now (NY Times, NY Daily News, NY Post). For them to NOT endorse a Republican is a major news item, wherever it is carried.


----------



## FeXL

Blah, blah, blah...Snopes.

Ya know, I used to respect Snopes but there have been several issues with the veracity of some of their research lately & I don't give them nearly the same amount of trust I used too.

Neither should you...



CubaMark said:


> Typical half-truths to imply a scandal where there is none to be found. The usual FeXL funky source parade..


----------



## FeXL

Just returned from a 10 day, 2800 mile loop through Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah & Idaho. I never even thought to pick up a Trump t-shirt just for $hits & giggles. After reading this, I wish I had... beejacon

An Elderly Trump Supporter was Beaten with a Crowbar--The Liberal Media's 'Response' Says It All



> A 62 year-old man was beaten bloody with a crowbar last Wednesday. His crime? Wearing a "Trump For President" t-shirt.
> 
> According to Bloomfield Police, Peter Yankowski was walking on West Passaic Ave in the early evening when a stranger in a gray compact car approached him and demanded to know why he was wearing the t-shirt, screaming profanities from his car as he drove.
> 
> ...
> 
> The driver followed Mr. Yankowski into a nearby Friendly's parking lot on Broad St., promptly exiting his car with a crowbar and began beating the elderly Trump supporter, leaving him with injuries to his arms, hands and thighs.


I'd have shoved that crowbar so far up his backside it would have made his nose bleed...


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump: No White House? Then a 'very nice long vacation' - CNNPolitics.com

Luckily, he won't lose.


----------



## FeXL

But, but, but...Koch Brothers!!!

Stunning revelation: Wikileaks hack shows that Soros called the shots on US policy toward Albania



> Let us be clear here: Soros got the U.S. and other accomplices to intervene in the internal affairs of a sovereign state. Soros has long been accused of being a puppet master orchestrating world politics and markets for his own benefit. I am not certain if this is the first documented instance of his ordering an action and it being implemented by major powers, but even if there is precedent, *how is this not huge news?*


M'bold.

MSM—>Crickets...


----------



## FeXL

If you pay attention to the MSM Press Corpse, you are probably unaware of this.

Coles Notes version is that, as Iran was preparing to release American hostages in January, an unmarked cargo plane with $400 million in cash on pallets was en route to Iran.

WATCH: Former Iranian Hostage Says Prisoners Weren’t Released Until “Another Plane” Arrived



> Americans being freed from Iranian captivity were not allowed to leave the Islamic Republic until “another plane” had arrived, one of the hostages said in an interview on Thursday, lending credence to the perception that the U.S.’s $400 million cash payment to Iran at the same time as the hostage transfer amounted to a ransom payment.
> 
> Former hostage Pastor Saeed Abedini told the Fox Business Network’s Trish Regan that he had asked an Iranian policeman why his plane had not yet departed—“the plane was there, pilot was there, everyone was ready that we leave the country”—and was told, *“We are waiting for another plane. And until that plane doesn’t come [sic] we never let you go.”*


M'bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hillary Clinton's 2015 tax return shows $10.6 million in income, 31% rate -- and puts pressure on Donald Trump - Aug. 12, 2016

So now the race is down to a game of "chicken chess". When Trump releases his tax returns and shows the millions upon millions upon millions given to various charities helping the homeless, the hungry, the vets, orphans, women's shelters, etc, etc, etc, he is going to blow Clinton out of the water. He will make Bernie Sanders look like Andrew Carnegie. Trump will have the "caring and compassionate" card on the table, which will be the trump card (no pun intended).


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Hillary Clinton's 2015 tax return shows $10.6 million in income, 31% rate -- and puts pressure on Donald Trump - Aug. 12, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> So now the race is down to a game of "chicken chess". When Trump releases his tax returns and shows the millions upon millions upon millions given to various charities helping the homeless, the hungry, the vets, orphans, women's shelters, etc, etc, etc, he is going to blow Clinton out of the water. He will make Bernie Sanders look like Andrew Carnegie. Trump will have the "caring and compassionate" card on the table, which will be the trump card (no pun intended).



The Donald will save us!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> The Donald will save us!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn right he will save all of us, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

About 60% of Hillary and Bill Clinton's income comes from speeches - Aug. 12, 2016

Interesting. 60% of the Clinton's income comes from giving speeches. 100% of Trump's income comes from hard work. Am I the only one to see the difference?


----------



## Dr.G.

In reversal, Trump says Islamic State claim about Obama was sarcastic - The Globe and Mail

" After days of alleging repeatedly that President Barack Obama literally founded the Islamic State group, Donald Trump abruptly shifted tone on Friday and insisted his widely debunked claim had been sarcastic.

Trump, in an early-morning post on Twitter, blamed CNN for reporting “so seriously” that he had called Obama and Democrat Hillary Clinton the extremist group’s founder and most valuable player. He added, in all capital letters: “THEY DON’T GET SARCASM?” "

Of course he was being sarcastic. How could anyone in their right mind think that Donald Trump would be that stupid as to blame Pres. Obama for ISIS????? Now really ...........................


----------



## Dr.G.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/1...&nlid=70296939&ref=headline&te=1&referer&_r=0

NO WAY can this be true!!!!!!!!!! I will eat Macfury's socks if this is the case. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

And the winner is .......................................................


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump claims he'll only lose Pennsylvania if there's cheating - CNNPolitics.com

Damn right!!!!!!!!! The Keystone State is a Trumpublican state from east to west, north to south.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's campaign in 15 magazine covers - CNNPolitics.com

Are these publications going to look foolish when The Donald becomes America's 45th president. Maybe he will relocate the executive branch of the US government from the West Wing to Trump Tower in NYC????


----------



## Dr.G.

Sarah Palin vows to leave America if Trump loses and move to New Mexico. Luckily, his chances of winning are far better than her knowledge of geography.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Daily 202: Can Trump chairman Paul Manafort survive new Ukraine revelations?*

*The Daily 202: Can Trump chairman Paul Manafort survive new Ukraine revelations?
*
We're about to find out how loyal Donald Trump is to Paul Manafort, the man running his campaign.

_--"Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Trump Aide" is the headline on the front page of Monday's New York Times._

"Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from (Viktor) Yanukovych's pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine's newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials," Andrew E. Kramer, Mike McIntire and Barry Meier report from Kiev. "In addition, criminal prosecutors are investigating a group of offshore shell companies that helped members of Mr. Yanukovych's inner circle finance their lavish lifestyles . . . Among the hundreds of murky transactions these companies engaged in was an $18 million deal to sell Ukrainian cable television assets to a partnership put together by Mr. Manafort and a Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin."

"Before he fled to Russia two years ago, Mr. Yanukovych and his Party of Regions relied heavily on the advice of Mr. Manafort and his firm, who helped them win several elections," the story notes. "During that period, Mr. Manafort never registered as a foreign agent with the United States Justice Department - as required of those seeking to influence American policy on behalf of foreign clients - although one of his subcontractors did."

In the 400-page ledger kept at party headquarters, inside a room which contained two safes full of $100 bills, Manafort's name appeared 22 times over five years, according to Ukraine's National Anti-Corruption Bureau, which obtained the document and has an evidence-sharing agreement with the FBI. The Times says the purpose of the payments is not specified. Manafort lawyer Richard Hibey said his client never received the cash in question and did nothing illegal or corrupt.

* * *

Former acting CIA director Michael Morell's op-ed endorsing Clinton on Aug. 5 is more relevant now than ever: "Putin was a career intelligence officer, trained to identify vulnerabilities in an individual and to exploit them. That is exactly what he did early in the primaries. Mr. Putin played upon Mr. Trump's vulnerabilities by complimenting him. He responded just as Mr. Putin had calculated. … Mr. Trump has also taken policy positions consistent with Russian, not American, interests - endorsing Russian espionage against the United States, supporting Russia's annexation of Crimea and giving a green light to a possible Russian invasion of the Baltic States. In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation."​(SCNow / Washington Post)​


----------



## fjnmusic

An interesting and credible explanation of Donald Trump's tactics so far. 



> Michael Moore: The Inside Story of Why Trump Is Self-Sabotaging His Own Campaign
> 
> Nathan Wellman | August 16, 2016
> 
> Michael Moore: The Inside Story of Why Trump Is Self-Sabotaging His Campaign
> 
> Respected documentarian Michael Moore just wrote a stunning article claiming that Donald Trump is intentionally sabotaging his presidential campaign.
> 
> “Donald Trump never actually wanted to be president of the United States. I know this for a fact. I’m not going to say how I know it. I’m not saying that Trump and I shared the same agent or lawyer or stylist or, if we did, that that would have anything to do with anything. And I’m certainly not saying that I ever overheard anything at those agencies or in the hallways of NBC or anywhere else. But there are certain people reading this right now, they know who they are, and they know that every word in the following paragraphs actually happened.”
> 
> Moore writes that, according to his anonymous sources, the original idea for the Trump campaign came as a negotiating tactic with NBC in an effort to get more money out of them for hosting his hit show The Apprentice.
> 
> “Trump had begun talking to other networks about moving his show. This was another way to get leverage—the fear of losing him to someone else—and when he “quietly” met with the head of one of those networks, and word got around, his hand was strengthened. He knew then that it was time to play his Big Card.
> 
> He decided to run for president.
> 
> Of course he wouldn’t really have to RUN for president—just make the announcement, hold a few mega-rallies that would be packed with tens of thousands of fans, and wait for the first opinion polls to come in showing him—what else!—in first place! And then he would get whatever deal he wanted, worth millions more than what he was currently being paid.”
> 
> Unfortunately, after beginning his campaign “with no campaign staff, no 50-state campaign infrastructure—neither of which he needed because, remember, this wasn’t going to be a real campaign—and with no prepared script,” Trump made his now-infamous statements about Mexican immigrants, calling them “rapists” and “drug dealers.”
> 
> NBC quickly released a statement: “Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump.”
> 
> Moore writes that Trump was “stunned” by NBC’s refusal, but kept running in an effort to increase his value to other networks. However, the reality show star was quickly swept up by the surprise wildfire of attention and power his presidential campaign quickly provided.
> 
> “Trump fell in love with himself all over again, and he soon forgot his mission to get a good deal for a TV show… His tiniest musings would be discussed and dissected everywhere by everybody for days, weeks, months! THAT never happened on “The Apprentice”! Host a TV show? He was the star of EVERY TV SHOW—and, soon, winning nearly every primary!”
> 
> According to Moore, the turning point likely came for Trump after the New Jersey primary. Citing a Times article headlined “Donald Trump’s Subdued Victory Speech After Winning New Jersey,” Moore described the speech as “downright depressing,” as Trump realized that he might actually win the Presidency. Or in other words” “He was going to have to go to work.”
> 
> Moore posits that since then, Trump has self-sabotaged his own campaign in an effort to be forced out of the race.
> 
> “Many now are sensing the end game here because they know Trump seriously doesn’t want to do the actual job—and, most importantly, he cannot and WILL NOT suffer through being officially and legally declared a loser—LOSER!—on the night of November 8th.”
> 
> The full text of Moore’s article can be read here.
> 
> Nathan Wellman is a Los Angeles-based journalist, author, and playwright. Follow him on Twitter: @LightningWOW



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://usuncut.com/politics/michael-moore/


----------



## Macfury

That's not remotely credible. Pretty pathetic tactic on Moore's part.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's not remotely credible. Pretty pathetic tactic on Moore's part.



Did you even read it? Which part isn't credible? It makes sense that Trump never wanted to actually be president. It's too much work for too little pay. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Anonymous sources. Right. Thank you for your contribution.



fjnmusic said:


> Did you even read it? Which part isn't credible? It makes sense that Trump never wanted to actually be president. It's too much work for too little pay.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Anonymous sources. Right. Thank you for your contribution.



How is Michael Moore anonymous? He's pretty hard to miss. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> How is Michael Moore anonymous? He's pretty hard to miss.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Moore spoke to anonymous sources.


----------



## FeXL

So, nothing from the left on their hero, George Soros? 

Curious...

(In no particular order)

Email Leak Exposes George Soros’ Anti-Israel Agenda



> Now a new group called DC Leaks — reportedly linked to Russian intelligence agencies — has exposed the emails of leftist philanthropist George Soros’ Open Society Foundations (OSF).
> 
> Ostensibly, OSF claims to “build vibrant and tolerant societies whose governments are accountable and open to the participation of all people, and to strengthen the rule of law; respect for human rights, minorities, and a diversity of opinions; democratically elected governments; and a civil society that helps keep government power in check.”
> 
> Instead, it has given millions of dollars to organizations highly critical of Israel, some of which deny the Jewish state’s right to exist.


Soros Group ‘Trained’ Socialists To Combat Will Of The People



> A series of documents leaked from George Soros’ Open Society Foundations have revealed a number of startling revelations about the work of the NGO when it comes to combating what they refer to as “xenophobic parties” in countries around Europe. According to at least one document the foundations has been calling for the censorship of language in the European parliament they term as hateful and have been actively working with various socialist members of the European parliament to train them on how to combat “xenophobic populism.”


Memo: Soros Group Funded ‘Opposition Research’ On Critics Of Radical Islam



> A non-profit group controlled by billionaire financier George Soros set out to conduct opposition research on a handful of critics of radical Islam, a newly released internal memo shows.


Massive hack of Soros files released



> The files of George Soros’s Open Society Institute have been hacked over a period of years, with 2,576 just published on the mysterious DCLeaks site. Soros, the master manipulator of governments who pulls the strings at the State Department, will face unprecedented scrutiny. Alex Pfeiffer of the Daily Caller summarized the range of material.


Billionaire George Soros spent $33MILLION bankrolling Ferguson demonstrators to create 'echo chamber' and drive national protests



> Liberal billionaire George Soros donated $33million to social justice organizations which helped turn events in Ferguson from a local protest into a national flashpoint.


Soros Hack Reveals EVidence of Systemic Anti-Israel Bias



> According to one document, for example, the Arab Regional Office Presidential Portfolio Review, dated August 6, 2015, the Soros network has given $2,688,561 in 14 grants since 2001 to Adalah. A self-described “independent human rights organization” that has been instrumental in accusing Israel of war crimes on numerous occasions in international forums, Adalah has called on governments the world over to sever or downgrade their diplomatic relations with Israel. An additional $1,083,000 in nine grants since 2003 went to I’lam, a Nazareth-based Palestinian media center. In a 2014 publication about the Nakba—the name Palestinians give the creation of the state of Israel, literally meaning “catastrophe”—the center accused Israel of ethnic cleansing and argued that “the practical meaning of the Nakba undermines the moral and ethical foundation of Zionism and, hence, of the State of Israel.” Other similar-minded organizations received similarly large grants, sometimes through the auspices of another Soros grantee, the New Israel Fund, which supported many of the same NGOs.


WHOA: George Soros Conspiracy EXPOSED! The Sinister Details Are SHOCKING America…



> Elites like Soros treat the millions of citizens in Europe and the rest of the West as game pieces and guinea pigs. They are so determined to impose their utopian philosophies that they don’t care how they harm people in the real world.


Bbbb, bu, but...KOCH BROS!!!


----------



## eMacMan

Sorry but one can hardly call Soros anti-Israel. All evidence points about 180° away from that theory. Nor has he shown any Utopian tendencies whatsoever. 

His funding of the Ferguson protests have everything to do with creating further divide and unrest within the US and nothing to do with advancing liberal causes.

We can agree that the man is about as evil as say Rockefeller or Rothchild, and probably working in close consultation with the same.


----------



## FeXL

Once again, what are they hiding?

EXCLUSIVE: Feds Hide $25 Million In Payments To Lawyers Suing Under Environmental Laws



> More than $49 million in taxpayer funds was paid to lawyers suing the Obama administration under three major environmental statutes, TheDCNF found. Environmental activists have gotten millions from taxpayers suing the government to expand federal regulation.
> 
> *But further analysis revealed that more than half of those payments went to groups the federal government concealed.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Cost of Obamacare Medicaid Expansion 49% Higher Than Previously Estimated



> A government report finds that the cost of expanding Medicaid to millions more low-income people is increasing faster than expected, raising questions about a vital part of President Barack Obama's health care law.


And, with even more insurance companies dropping out of coverage...


----------



## CubaMark

_This is *huge* news.

Good thing there are (far too few) progressive investigative journalists out there, hey?_

*Justice Department Plans to Stop Using Private Prisons*

*The announcement comes after a Mother Jones investigation found serious deficiencies at a private prison in Louisiana.*

The Department of Justice will stop contracting with private prisons, the department announced Thursday morning. The decision comes a week after the DOJ inspector general released a damning report on the safety, security, and oversight of private prisons, which incarcerate 12 percent of federal inmates.

The announcement comes on the heels of a Mother Jones investigation of a private prison in Louisiana that found serious deficiencies in staffing and security. It also documented a higher rate of violence than the prison reported. Last week's DOJ report found that private prisons are more violent than federal prisons.

As of December 2015, private prisons incarcerated about 22,600 federal inmates. The news of the DOJ's decision prompted a quick downturn in stock prices for the two largest private prison companies.

The decision was announced in a memo by Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, according to the Washington Post. The memo directs department officials not to renew existing contracts or to "substantially reduce" their scope, with the goal of "reducing—and ultimately ending—our use of privately operated prisons."​(More at Mother Jones)​


----------



## Macfury

What does being saddled with "progressivism" have to do with producing a decent news story?



CubaMark said:


> _This is *huge* news.
> 
> Good thing there are (far too few) progressive investigative journalists out there, hey?_
> 
> *Justice Department Plans to Stop Using Private Prisons*
> 
> *The announcement comes after a Mother Jones investigation found serious deficiencies at a private prison in Louisiana.*
> 
> The Department of Justice will stop contracting with private prisons, the department announced Thursday morning. The decision comes a week after the DOJ inspector general released a damning report on the safety, security, and oversight of private prisons, which incarcerate 12 percent of federal inmates.
> 
> The announcement comes on the heels of a Mother Jones investigation of a private prison in Louisiana that found serious deficiencies in staffing and security. It also documented a higher rate of violence than the prison reported. Last week's DOJ report found that private prisons are more violent than federal prisons.
> 
> As of December 2015, private prisons incarcerated about 22,600 federal inmates. The news of the DOJ's decision prompted a quick downturn in stock prices for the two largest private prison companies.
> 
> The decision was announced in a memo by Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, according to the Washington Post. The memo directs department officials not to renew existing contracts or to "substantially reduce" their scope, with the goal of "reducing—and ultimately ending—our use of privately operated prisons."​(More at Mother Jones)​


----------



## CubaMark

*Idiocracy Director Says It's "Scary" How Accurate His Movie Has Become*










These days Mike Judge is busy with his HBO show Silicon Valley, but back in 2006 he made a movie that would become an instant cult classic. Set in a dystopian future, Idiocracy is now a cultural touchstone for people who think the world just keeps getting dumber. And now Judge says it’s “scary” how quickly his movie became reality.

“Now every other Twitter comment I get is about Idiocracy, and how it’s a documentary now,”

* * *​
Donald Trump being in the WWF before, and talking about his penis size,” Judge continued, referring to the Republican nominee for president and his past with the World Wrestling Federation, a nod to the fact that the president in the film is a wrestling star. “It’s just one specific thing after another!”

As I examined back in 2014, the “Idiocracy is a documentary” narrative is not new. And it speaks to a general sense that the United States is not only getting dumber, but that “dumber” people (which is to say, people you disagree with politically) are breeding more. 

* * *​
Conservatives are just as likely as liberals to use Idiocracy as their shorthand way to talk about how the United States has gotten dumber. When I wrote an article critical of Idiocracy’s opening scene back in 2014 Rush Limbaugh was quick to point out how wrong I was and that Idiocracy was indeed coming true.​
(Gizmodo)


----------



## Macfury

_Americathon_ kicked ass way before _Idiocracy_.


----------



## fjnmusic

http://theslot.jezebel.com/louisian...source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

Huh. Recall that story a couple weeks back about an unmarked freighter chock full of cash flying to Iran about the same time that American hostages were about to be released?

Yea, as it turns out, the $400 million _was_ a ransom payment...

State Department: Yes, that $400 million not-a-ransom to Iran was contingent upon releasing U.S. prisoners



> If you missed John’s post last night about the big Wall Street Journal story that broke this open, read it now. John Kirby, State’s spokesman, swore up and down on Fox News two weeks ago that the payment couldn’t be a ransom because it wasn’t conditioned on receiving anything in return. It was a “completely separate process” from the prisoner release. Ultimately prisoners went free _and also_ America released some money that it had seized from Iran in the past, but *without a linkage between the two you can’t rightly call it a ransom*


M'bold.

Riiiiight...

More:

Obama lied, it was a ransom payment: US held cash until Iran freed prisoners



> _New details of the $400 million U.S. payment to Iran earlier this year depict a tightly scripted exchange specifically timed to the release of several American prisoners held in Iran._​


Spin, spin, spin...


----------



## FeXL

Oh, sure, _now_ they're worried.

The Betrayal of the Intellectuals?



> I and many others, long ago in the pre-Trump age, cited the quite dangerous trajectory of Obama’s constitutional overreach. That worry is now shared apparently by the _New York Times_. Suddenly in year eight, its editors fear that someday another president, perhaps one less sensitive, more uncouth than Obama, might find his exemplar useful, but for less exalted progressive purposes. Thus the _Times_ has characterized Obama’s overreach as “bureaucratic bulldozing rather than legislative transparency.” And more ominously it notes, “But once Mr. Obama got the taste for it, he pursued his executive power without apology, and in ways that will shape the presidency for decades to come.”


When even the _NYT_ is beginning to pay attention...


----------



## FeXL

Possibility?

Hacker demonstrates how voting machines can be compromised



> But for the hackers at Symantec Security Response, Election Day results could be manipulated by an affordable device you can find online.
> 
> "I can insert it, and then it resets the card, and now I'm able to vote again," said Brian Varner, a principle researcher at Symantec, demonstrating the device.
> The voter doesn't even need to leave the booth to hack the machine.
> 
> "For $15 and in-depth knowledge of the card, you could hack the vote," Varner said.
> 
> Symantec Security Response director Kevin Haley said elections can also be hacked by breaking into the machines after the votes are collected.
> 
> "The results go from that machine into a piece of electronics that takes it to the central counting place," Haley said. "That data is not encrypted and that's vulnerable for manipulation."


----------



## FeXL

No way. It's the guns...

Milwaukee County Sheriff explains the cause of Milwaukee riots: Failed Liberal Policies



> Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke explained on Fox Business that these riots, like we saw in Milwaukee over the weekend, are the result of *“failed liberal urban policies”* that have left many of these ghettos with inescapable poverty and terrible school systems


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Well, in that case, I'm not sending my cheque in, either.

CEO Tim Cook Decides Apple Doesn’t Have to Pay Corporate Tax Rate Because It’s “Unfair”



> Here’s what Apple CEO Tim Cook had to say about it in a long interview published this weekend in the Washington Post:
> 
> _We’ve said at 40 percent, we’re not going to bring it back until there’s a fair rate. There’s no debate about it. Is that legal to do or not legal to do? It is legal to do. It is the current tax law. It’s not a matter of being patriotic or not patriotic. It doesn’t go that the more you pay, the more patriotic you are._​
> Cook simultaneously wants us to know he is not a bad “traditional CEO” who just cares about money. No, to the contrary, he feels an “incredible responsibility” to “the communities and the countries that the company operates in” and “the whole ecosystem of the company.”
> 
> *Therefore, because Cook cares so little about money and so much about communities, Apple won’t be paying its taxes. That’s just fair.*


M'bold.


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## FeXL

So, while President 4-Putt is off playing with his balls & Bill's Wife is fundraising with Cher, Trump is in Louisiana with a semi trailer full of donated goods that he purchased, himself.

Trump makes fools of governor AND media when he rolls into Louisiana with an 18-wheeler full of supplies



> And when Air Trump did land in Baton Rouge, beating both his Democratic opponent and the sitting president, who seemed much more interested in avoiding water traps on the golf course than showing concern for fellow citizens whose lives are literally UNDER WATER, liberal journalists downplayed his visit, including a “story” entitled, “Watch Donald Trump Spend Exactly 49 Seconds ‘Helping Out’ Louisiana Flood Victims.”
> 
> Except Trump didn’t just show up for a “photo-op,” or to spend a few seconds “helping out.” Instead, the man actually brought an 18-wheeler transfer truck full of supplies to help people in need, right where they are.


The cynical among you will say that this was nothing more than a photo-op, even with the supplies. I can't say whether it was or wasn't. However, he beat both Barry & Bill's Wife getting there and he brought along a semi load of supplies...

Related:

Obama and Black Lives Matter AWOL in LA Floods



> President Obama has been vacationing with the Clinton’s and has refused to cut it short to help lead in Louisiana.
> 
> ...
> 
> It’s bad down on the bayou! President Obama is content to stay at Martha’s Vineyard and play golf.
> 
> President Obama isn’t the only one not showing up in Louisiana. Black Lives Matter is nowhere to be seen and it has more than annoyed one resident.


----------



## FeXL

So, how's that vetting process stand up to scrutiny?

Obama's immigrant vetting doesn't ask if they're ISIS, al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood



> A new analysis of how the United States "vets" immigrants reveals that written visa and citizenship surveys ask if applicants are World War II Nazi veterans or sympathizers, but not members of ISIS, al Qaeda or other Islamic terror groups at war with America.


Yeah, 'cause those 90 year old Nazis are the biggest problem facing the US, after globull warming...


----------



## Macfury

I saw that HOLI jumped right in on that one without checking.



FeXL said:


> So, while President 4-Putt is off playing with his balls & Bill's Wife is fundraising with Cher, Trump is in Louisiana with a semi trailer full of donated goods that he purchased, himself.
> 
> Trump makes fools of governor AND media when he rolls into Louisiana with an 18-wheeler full of supplies
> 
> 
> 
> The cynical among you will say that this was nothing more than a photo-op, even with the supplies. I can't say whether it was or wasn't. However, he beat both Barry & Bill's Wife getting there and he brought along a semi load of supplies...
> 
> Related:
> 
> Obama and Black Lives Matter AWOL in LA Floods


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> So, while President 4-Putt is off playing with his balls & Bill's Wife is fundraising with Cher, Trump is in Louisiana with a semi trailer full of donated goods that he purchased, himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump makes fools of governor AND media when he rolls into Louisiana with an 18-wheeler full of supplies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cynical among you will say that this was nothing more than a photo-op, even with the supplies. I can't say whether it was or wasn't. However, he beat both Barry & Bill's Wife getting there and he brought along a semi load of supplies...
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama and Black Lives Matter AWOL in LA Floods



Yup. Toys and condoms. Odd combination. The governor was none too impressed with Trump's unannounced visit, especially in a time of crisis. At least Obama had the decency to call ahead. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> The governor was none too impressed with Trump's unannounced visit, especially in a time of crisis. At least Obama had the decency to call ahead.


Yes, only the people of Louisiana appreciated it, not the Democrat governor--funny that.


----------



## FeXL

<just shaking my head...>



fjnmusic said:


> Yup. Toys and condoms. Odd combination. The governor was none too impressed with Trump's unannounced visit, especially in a time of crisis. At least Obama had the decency to call ahead.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> <just shaking my head...>


Imagine delivering supplies in a time of crisis without calling the Governor first. Decorum must be maintained.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Imagine delivering supplies in a time of crisis without calling the Governor first. Decorum must be maintained.



Those condoms are going to come in handy. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

Yeah, when Barry finally arrives & starts screwing over the populace. Again...



fjnmusic said:


> Those condoms are going to come in handy.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yes, only the people of Louisiana appreciated it, not the Democrat governor--funny that.


Yeah, the governor who was made to look like a horse's arse...


----------



## FeXL

Yay! Minnesota Somali Woman Who Married Her Brother While Married Wins Primary



> Omar is the perfect candidate for political office — she committed bigamy, married her brother, violated immigration law, and she’s a black Muslim. She’s untouchable. If you say anything, you’re an Islamophobe or some kind of racist.


Sounds like a shoo-in to me...


----------



## FeXL

The compassionate, intellectual left...

Hillary Supporters Throw Dog Crap at Trump Supporters During Successful and Diverse “Twitter Rally”



> Things turned violent when the Hillary supporters showed up.
> 
> They threw dog crap and eggs at Trump supporters, kicked and punched them and destroyed their personal property.


----------



## FeXL

Nails it...

In one sentence, Meghan McCain NAILS difference between Hillary and Trump…



> “When Donald Trump says things, it offends people sometimes and it can be controversial, but when Hillary makes mistakes, people die,” McCain said.


'Bout right:


----------



## CubaMark

*The blind & bigoted leading the bigoted & the blind...*

*Michele Bachmann: I'm advising Trump on foreign policy*









Tea Party firebrand Michele Bachmann says she is advising Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump on foreign policy. 

The former Minnesota congresswoman attended a fundraiser in the state for Trump on Saturday, where she revealed to the press that she has his ear on foreign policy. 
“He also recognizes there is a threat around the world, not just here in Minnesota, of radical Islam,” she said, according to MPR News. “I wish our President Obama also understood the threat of radical Islam and took it seriously.” 

“He’s a common-sense guy, not into political correctness,” Bachmann added, according to the Star Tribune. 

Bachmann is already part of Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board, providing “support” to Trump on “issues important to Evangelicals and other people of faith in America.”​
(The Hill)


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *The blind & bigoted leading the bigoted & the blind...*
> 
> 
> 
> *Michele Bachmann: I'm advising Trump on foreign policy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tea Party firebrand Michele Bachmann says she is advising Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump on foreign policy.
> 
> 
> 
> The former Minnesota congresswoman attended a fundraiser in the state for Trump on Saturday, where she revealed to the press that she has his ear on foreign policy.
> 
> “He also recognizes there is a threat around the world, not just here in Minnesota, of radical Islam,” she said, according to MPR News. “I wish our President Obama also understood the threat of radical Islam and took it seriously.”
> 
> 
> 
> “He’s a common-sense guy, not into political correctness,” Bachmann added, according to the Star Tribune.
> 
> 
> 
> Bachmann is already part of Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board, providing “support” to Trump on “issues important to Evangelicals and other people of faith in America.”​
> 
> 
> (The Hill)



If common sense were really common, everyone would have it. Clearly Mr. Trump does not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

He does. Seeking Bachmann's input is important to maintaining voter turnout.


----------



## Macfury

Turns out this was a total "progressive" lie. See YouTube video with the governor:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.










fjnmusic said:


> Louisiana Gov Tells Trump to Volunteer, Make a 'Sizable Donation' or Get the **** Out of His Face*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He does. Seeking Bachmann's input is important to maintaining voter turnout.


True. She appeals to a certain type of voter and helps Trump gain a somewhat different perspective on national and international issues, as well as social and religious issues in parts of America. 

What has happened to Sarah Palin? I have heard nothing from her lately? She too provides a unique POV on various issues.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> True. She appeals to a certain type of voter and helps Trump gain a somewhat different perspective on national and international issues, as well as social and religious issues in parts of America.
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Sarah Palin? I have heard nothing from her lately? She too provides a unique POV on various issues.




And don't forget, she's a hottie. At least she used to be. As long as she doesn't speak. She'd make America great again. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

About 1,500 Americans in river party wash up in Canada - CNN.com

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ........... yearning to get out of the water.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Gordon Gekko period: Donald Trump's lucrative and controversial time as an activist investor - CNNPolitics.com

When will they understand that "the business of America is business" (Pres. Calvin Coolidge)????


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> About 1,500 Americans in river party wash up in Canada - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ........... yearning to get out of the water.



Damn! How do you build a wall across a river or a lake? And there not sending their best; they're sending their druggies, their murderers, their rapists, their drunk party animals. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> True. She appeals to a certain type of voter and helps Trump gain a somewhat different perspective on national and international issues, as well as social and religious issues in parts of America.
> 
> What has happened to Sarah Palin? I have heard nothing from her lately? She too provides a unique POV on various issues.


This is absolutely a true statement. Politicians such as Trump need to have as wide an advisory base as possible so when he ignores their advice he will appear as nondiscriminatory.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> About 1,500 Americans in river party wash up in Canada - CNN.com
> 
> Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ........... yearning to get out of the water.


With Hilary's lead over Trump tanking, you've just seen the first wave of an impending US refugee invasion of Canada.... :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Bring 'em! I understand Baffin Island is quite nice in the summer...



CubaMark said:


> With Hilary's lead over Trump tanking, you've just seen the first wave of an impending US refugee invasion of Canada.... :yikes:


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> About 1,500 Americans in river party wash up in Canada - CNN.com
> 
> Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ........... yearning to get out of the water.





CubaMark said:


> With Hilary's lead over Trump tanking, you've just seen the first wave of an impending US refugee invasion of Canada.... :yikes:


Wait till they discover that the Harpoon stabbed them in the back long before their arrival. Canada Day 2014 to be exact. Yea their fiscal records shall dwell in the IRS financial database of drug dealers and money launderers, forever and ever. Amen.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Bring 'em! I understand Baffin Island is quite nice in the summer...


Typical FeXL. Can't wait to add yet more unvetted refugees to our poor, struggling economy, sucking god-fearing taxpayers dry just to keep these pampered sods comfy in their muumuus, free motorized wheelchairs and big gulp soda pop to wash down the dozen Big Macs they'll be having for breakfast (lunch and dinner), daily. 

You just can't wait for them to come in here and change our culture, trample on our national traditions, can you? Just wait, pal. You betcha. Say goodbye to poutine and donairs, it's going to be all Carl's and Walmarts on every corner....


----------



## Macfury

We already have Walmarts on every corner. But Carl's Jr. was a big flop in Toronto, with all of them closing in record time.



CubaMark said:


> Typical FeXL. Can't wait to add yet more unvetted refugees to our poor, struggling economy, sucking god-fearing taxpayers dry just to keep these pampered sods comfy in their muumuus, free motorized wheelchairs and big gulp soda pop to wash down the dozen Big Macs they'll be having for breakfast (lunch and dinner), daily.
> 
> You just can't wait for them to come in here and change our culture, trample on our national traditions, can you? Just wait, pal. You betcha. Say goodbye to poutine and donairs, it's going to be all Carl's and Walmarts on every corner....


----------



## FeXL

Got no issues with unvetted refugees getting shipped to Baffin Island, whatever the source. When that gets full, there is a veritable Arctic archipelago just waiting for the next batch.

Figger after a couple of generations they'll either be all dead from killing each other or civilized to the point that they'll be amenable to western culture.

Win/win...



CubaMark said:


> Typical FeXL. Can't wait to add yet more unvetted refugees to our poor, struggling economy...


Could care less about poutine & donairs & there are already too many Wal-Marts in Canada. Don't know anything about Carl's, save it's a burger joint. Never been.



CubaMark said:


> Say goodbye to poutine and donairs, it's going to be all Carl's and Walmarts on every corner....


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Liberals Foaming at the Mouth Over Houston White Lives Matter Protest



> In a doozy of a story that has liberal heads exploding, a group staged a White Lives Matter protest at a Houston NAACP office on Sunday. The small gathering was seeking to get the message across that there is no small amount of hypocrisy within the anarchist Black Lives Matter movement, especially when it comes to addressing black on black violence and holding criminals accountable.


----------



## FeXL

RICH: Hillary flies 20 miles in private jet from Martha’s Vineyard to Nantucket



> Hillary Clinton is very important, and she can’t be bogged down by pesky things such as boats or waiting.
> 
> The presidential candidate, who is endlessly trying to tell factory workers in Ohio and Pennsylvania that she’s one of them, jetted approximately 20 miles from Martha’s Vineyard — where she was last night partying with President Obama — to Nantucket for a fundraiser on Saturday.


----------



## FeXL

You sillies. Her name was just on the masthead...

Huma Abedin worked at a radical Muslim journal for a dozen years



> Hillary Clinton’s top campaign aide, and the woman who might be the future White House chief of staff to the first female US president, for a decade edited a radical Muslim publication that opposed women’s rights and blamed the US for 9/11.


More:



> Huma Abedin is Clinton’s longest-serving and, by all accounts, most loyal aide. The devout, Saudi-raised Muslim started working for her in the White House, then followed her to the Senate and later the State Department. She’s now helping run Clinton’s presidential campaign as vice chair and may end up back in the White House.
> 
> *The contradictions are hard to reconcile. The campaign is not talking, despite repeated requests for interviews.*


There's an understatement.

And, with Bill's Wife not having an open press conference for over 260 days not, where's the hue & cry from the left? Hell, here in Canada Harper didn't attend all of the debates & he was pilloried by the Progs. WTF?


----------



## FeXL

Emails: Huma Abedin Left Classified Material Unsecured In The Front Seat Of Her Car



> Emails released on Monday show that Hillary Clinton’s top State Department aide, Huma Abedin, left classified government information that needed to be burned in the front seat of her vehicle.


But when the Dems do it it's not illegal...


----------



## FeXL

Beautiful...

Petition: Send CNN’s Sally Kohn to live in Shariah-based country to teach right-wing a lesson



> CNN’s Sally Kohn is being trolled in epic fashion over a Tweet she sent out trying to criticize Donald Trump’s position on Shariah law not being compatible with the US constitution...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> A sensitive and compassionate person named Jon Lo decided to hold Ms. Kohn up to her own rhetoric. He began a Change.org petition suggesting that Kohn be an example to the hate-mongers on the right. The petition says CNN should send Kohn to a Sharia law based country without any bodyguards so she can be living proof of what beautiful and tolerant societies they are...


Don't think she'll have the intestinal fortitude to test the theory...


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> This is absolutely a true statement. Politicians such as Trump need to have as wide an advisory base as possible so when he ignores their advice he will appear as nondiscriminatory.



Trump advisors are figureheads—as they should be. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> With Hilary's lead over Trump tanking, you've just seen the first wave of an impending US refugee invasion of Canada.... :yikes:



Tanking? Last count I read, Hillary was well over 300 with Trump sitting around 139 or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

His numbers have been improving all week.



fjnmusic said:


> Tanking? Last count I read, Hillary was well over 300 with Trump sitting around 139 or so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> His numbers have been improving all week.



This is the most recent chart. It guesstimates Clinton with 320, Trump, 139. If you think that's an improvement, he must have been even lower. 











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## Macfury

If you want to look at the electoral college, that's your choice. His numbers have been improving as a percentage of voters. The electoral college projections will not show that improvement all at once.


----------



## Rps

Curious map. I've got Florida and Ohio trending toward Trump. He needs Florida, if he drops that I think he's done.....but many days ahead.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> With Hilary's lead over Trump tanking, you've just seen the first wave of an impending US refugee invasion of Canada.... :yikes:


Welcome to Nova Scotia .............. come for a visit .......... stay for a lifetime. We have a Liberal provincial government within a country that has a Liberal PM. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Tanking? Last count I read, Hillary was well over 300 with Trump sitting around 139 or so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, you are believing the polls. They ignore the "silent majority". Get on board the Trump Train. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Trump advisors are figureheads—as they should be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. Only the King should wear the crown.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> His numbers have been improving all week.


Yes, he is starting to peak at just the right moment. The final nails in the Clinton Coffin will be delivered when Trump nails her on specifics with his own views of foreign, domestic and economic policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If you want to look at the electoral college, that's your choice. His numbers have been improving as a percentage of voters. The electoral college projections will not show that improvement all at once.


Sadly, in the US political system, one must look at the electoral college numbers rather than the popular vote. Trump is gaining in the various states that he already has under his belt. He needs to break through in other battleground states.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Curious map. I've got Florida and Ohio trending toward Trump. He needs Florida, if he drops that I think he's done.....but many days ahead.


Ohio is the key for any Republican. No Republican president has ever lost Ohio.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, you are believing the polls. They ignore the "silent majority". Get on board the Trump Train. Paix, mon ami.



Is that something like the Oral Majority of Monty Python fame?


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----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> True. Only the King should wear the crown.




Heavy is the head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, in the US political system, one must look at the electoral college numbers rather than the popular vote. Trump is gaining in the various states that he already has under his belt. He needs to break through in other battleground states.



But with the election being rigged, as he has already mentioned, our fearless leader may have already thrown in the towel. That's NOT the same as being a loser however.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that. Wonder about the other 47 who have had sudden accidents & health issues...

Missing: FBI files linking Hillary Clinton to the 'suicide' of White House counsel Vince Foster have vanished from the National Archives



> # Documents describing Hillary Clinton's role in the death of White House counsel Vince Foster have vanished, Daily Mail Online has learned after an extensive investigation
> # Foster is believed to have shot himself with a .38 caliber revolver at Fort Marcy Park along the Potomac River on July 20, 1993
> # Two former FBI agents involved in the investigation tell Daily Mail Online they issued reports linking Hillary's tirade to Foster's suicide
> # Days before his death, then First Lady ridiculed him mercilessly in front of his peers, say former FBI agents and detailed it in their report
> # 'You have failed us,' Hillary told Foster, former FBI Jim Clemente told Daily Mail Online
> # Archived material related to the case, housed at National Archives in College Park, Md. were examined by the author to no avail
> # After filing a Freedom of Information request, it was determined that the agents' reports have gone missing


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Is that something like the Oral Majority of Monty Python fame?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, the "silent majority" got Richard Nixon elected in 1968.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Heavy is the head.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> But with the election being rigged, as he has already mentioned, our fearless leader may have already thrown in the towel. That's NOT the same as being a loser however.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In the end, they will not be able to stuff the ballot boxes with enough illegal votes to deny Trump from becoming #45.


----------



## CubaMark

*Get this guy's name, and start a write-in campaign!*


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Get this guy's name, and start a write-in campaign!*


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/palin-upset-trump-wishy-washy-immigration

She's back ....................................


----------



## Dr.G.

Sarah Palin Poses With Dead Boar To Convince Wisconsinites To Vote Trump

................. and she is packing heat.


----------



## Dr.G.

Doctor: I wrote Trump's bill of health in 5 minutes - CNNPolitics.com

This is great. Not only will Trump be the oldest US president when he is sworn in as #45, he will also be the healthiest .............. since it only took 5 minutes to confirm his health status and report it to the world.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Doctor: I wrote Trump's bill of health in 5 minutes - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> This is great. Not only will Trump be the oldest US president when he is sworn in as #45, he will also be the healthiest .............. since it only took 5 minutes to confirm his health status and report it to the world.



Hate to disappoint you Dr. G., but there's a good chance that Trump will not become Supreme Chancillor—er, President—after all, according to fiveythirtyeight. This election is rigged, no doubt, by Crooked Bigot Hillary. 










http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Hate to disappoint you Dr. G., but there's a good chance that Trump will not become Supreme Chancillor—er, President—after all, according to fiveythirtyeight. This election is rigged, no doubt, by Crooked Bigot Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Keep the faith, Frank. Once the "silent majority", and the "alt-right" folks come out of the woodworks, Trump will gain a smashing victory. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Keep the faith, Frank. Once the "silent majority", and the "alt-right" folks come out of the woodworks, Trump will gain a smashing victory. Paix, mon ami.



Yes, perhaps you are right, just as George Clark's people were able to successfully stage that "kudata" this spring. I mustn't lose faith in the Big Orange Cheeto. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Yes, perhaps you are right, just as George Clark's people were able to successfully stage that "kudata" this spring. I mustn't lose faith in the Big Orange Cheeto.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the way, Frank. Keep the faith, and take hope that The Donald will make America great once again ................ and we here in Canada will be pulled forward in the Jetstream.


----------



## SINC

Sadly this thread has been turned into a farce rather than any attempt at serious discussion of the real American threat of both Trump and Clinton. 

One is as bad for America as the other. To make light of it is disappointing to read here day after day.


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> Sadly this thread has been turned into a farce rather than any attempt at serious discussion of the real American threat of both Trump and Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> One is as bad for America as the other. To make light of it is disappointing to read here day after day.



One is as bad as the other? Sorry, but I'm going to say you've oversimplified the dilemma big time, Don. One has experience, one has policies; the other lacks either of these. One choice would lead America to ruin and possibly even more unwinnable wars, while the other may actually have some diplomacy in her blood. In short, one deserves the chance to become POTUS, while the other is a buffoon, simply trying to broaden his brand name. No, one is definitely not as bad as the other. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> One is as bad as the other? Sorry, but I'm going to say you've oversimplified the dilemma big time, Don. One has experience, one has policies; the other lacks either of these. One choice would lead America to ruin and possibly even more unwinnable wars, while the other may actually have some diplomacy in her blood. In short, one deserves the chance to become POTUS, while the other is a buffoon, simply trying to broaden his brand name. No, one is definitely not as bad as the other.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Choosing a criminal over a bufoon is a choice? Hardly. Neither choice is good for Americans. So you see, it's not as simple as some simpletons think it is. 

PS - Sent from my iPhone NOT using Tapatalk.


----------



## fjnmusic

SINC said:


> Choosing a criminal over a bufoon is a choice? Hardly. Neither choice is good for Americans. So you see, it's not as simple as some simpletons think it is.
> 
> 
> 
> PS - Sent from my iPhone NOT using Tapatalk.



What makes you think Trump is not a criminal? And what crimes has Hillary been convicted of exactly? Last I remember, one is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. As far as I'm aware, Hillary may have shown a lack of caution with the e-mail server, but she has not been charged with or convicted of a crime. Trump has been charged with raping a 13 year old, although he has not been convicted yet. Which is worse?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Last I remember, one is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. As far as I'm aware, Hillary may have shown a lack of caution with the e-mail server, but she has not been charged with or convicted of a crime.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


True. While I was a Bernie Sanders supporter from the start, I will have no qualms in voting for Clinton in the State of Georgia ............. which, for some reason, has been polled as a "pink" state rather than a solid Republican red state. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> What makes you think Trump is not a criminal? And what crimes has Hillary been convicted of exactly? Last I remember, one is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. As far as I'm aware, Hillary may have shown a lack of caution with the e-mail server, but she has not been charged with or convicted of a crime. Trump has been charged with raping a 13 year old, although he has not been convicted yet. Which is worse?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Anyone who saw the Comer Senate testimony can have little doubt as to Hillary criminal activity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xNLLcS2Yx8

Of course this did not even touch on her leveraging her Secretary of State job into big donations to the Clinton Foundation. So many favours given in return...

Have no doubt that failing the protection of the Super Elite, Hillary would already be behind bars.


----------



## fjnmusic

eMacMan said:


> Anyone who saw the Comer Senate testimony can have little doubt as to Hillary criminal activity.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xNLLcS2Yx8
> 
> Of course this did not even touch on her leveraging her Secretary of State job into big donations to the Clinton Foundation. So many favours given in return...
> 
> Have no doubt that failing the protection of the Super Elite, Hillary would already be behind bars.



So again, what has she actually been convicted of? I might believe should be in jail for the rape of a 13 year old, but he has not been convicted yet. He has certainly filed at least four bankruptcies, but those are not the same as criminal convictions. To be a criminal in the normal sense of the word, one must first be convicted of a crime. Settlements do not count either.


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----------



## eMacMan

^^
By that reasoning a Mafia Chief who avoids conviction is not a criminal?

Hillary has the protection of the puppet masters. I have no doubt that once elected she will issue an executive order allowing her to pardon herself for all crimes past and future.

By the time the challenges reach the Supreme Court she will have died of old age.


----------



## fjnmusic

eMacMan said:


> ^^
> By that reasoning a Mafia Chief who avoids conviction is not a criminal?
> 
> Hillary has the protection of the puppet masters. I have no doubt that once elected she will issue an executive order allowing her to pardon herself for all crimes past and future.
> 
> By the time the challenges reach the Supreme Court she will have died of old age.



Again, there is no crime to be pardoned from. And if you recall, Al Capone was eventually sent to prison for tax evasion, not murder or racketeering. Innocent until proven guilty is a pretty basic premise in criminal law, whether we like it or not. Hillary has not actually committed any crimes that he she has been found guilty of. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Again, there is no crime to be pardoned from. And if you recall, Al Capone was eventually sent to prison for tax evasion, not murder or racketeering. Innocent until proven guilty is a pretty basic premise in criminal law, whether we like it or not. Hillary has not actually committed any crimes that he she has been found guilty of.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Once again, all too true. Yes, "innocent until proven guilty" is the cornerstone of the American justice system. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Anti-Trump Super PAC Releases BRUTAL Video… Makes Trump Look Like A FOOL! – Realtime Politics

Trump sounds like a closet Clintonite. Interesting array of clips from his past.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump tries to clarify immigration plan, but avoids key issue - The Globe and Mail

This is where Trump's change of attitude becomes interesting. He is sounding more like Jeb Bush each day.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> And what crimes has Hillary been convicted of exactly?


What was Nixon convicted of exactly?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What was Nixon convicted of exactly?


Luckily, he was able to resign the presidency prior to a vote of impeachment, which I think would have gone against him back then.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Libertarian Party’s candidate for president, Gary Johnson, has cleared more hurdles to be on the ballot in Ohio and New York and is on track for ballot access in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Very interesting. From his polling numbers, he is appealing to some Sander's supporters and some anti-Trump voters, as well as the hard core Libertarian Party supporters.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Libertarian Party’s candidate for president, Gary Johnson, has cleared more hurdles to be on the ballot in Ohio and New York and is on track for ballot access in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Very interesting. From his polling numbers, he is appealing to some Sander's supporters and some anti-Trump voters, as well as the hard core Libertarian Party supporters.


Not to hard core Libertarians. The current team has somewhat hijacked the party with an offbeat Republican outlook, rather than a libertarian one.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Not to hard core Libertarians. The current team has somewhat hijacked the party with an offbeat Republican outlook, rather than a libertarian one.


Interesting. How are they straying from a traditional Libertarian Party platform?


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, he was able to resign the presidency prior to a vote of impeachment, which I think would have gone against him back then.



Bill Clinton was actually impeached (for lying about his extramarital affair) but he remained as President. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> The Libertarian Party’s candidate for president, Gary Johnson, has cleared more hurdles to be on the ballot in Ohio and New York and is on track for ballot access in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Very interesting. From his polling numbers, he is appealing to some Sander's supporters and some anti-Trump voters, as well as the hard core Libertarian Party supporters.



Interesting, since Sanders would be far from Libertarian, unless Libertarian and Democratic Socialist are synonymous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. How are they straying from a traditional Libertarian Party platform?


The VP candidate is a gun control advocate. And Johnson thinks the EPA is an example of good governance.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Bill Clinton was actually impeached (for lying about his extramarital affair) but he remained as President.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A two-thirds vote (67 senators) was required to remove Clinton from office. Fifty senators voted to remove Clinton on the obstruction of justice charge and 45 voted to remove him on the perjury charge; no Democrat voted guilty on either charge. Clinton was acquitted, becoming the second sitting United States President to be formally charged with a crime (impeached) and subsequently declared not guilty (acquitted).


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Interesting, since Sanders would be far from Libertarian, unless Libertarian and Democratic Socialist are synonymous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, the hard core Sandernistas, wanted something truly new, and Clinton and Trump do not represent this newness. If I was one of these supporters of Sanders, I would vote for the Green Party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The VP candidate is a gun control advocate. And Johnson thinks the EPA is an example of good governance.


:clap::clap::clap: Good for them. Maybe this is why they are bringing in 10% in the latest polls, and the Green Party only 4%?


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's immigration talk runs into reality at the Mexican border - The Globe and Mail

An interesting article re the reality of building a wall across the Mexican border.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trumpâ€s immigration talk runs into reality at the Mexican border - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting article re the reality of building a wall across the Mexican border.



Maybe a was referring to a metaphorical wall—like saying I'll destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> :clap::clap::clap: Good for them. Maybe this is why they are bringing in 10% in the latest polls, and the Green Party only 4%?


Johnson is not for gun control, so you can hold the applause!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Johnson is not for gun control, so you can hold the applause!


"The VP candidate is a gun control advocate. " But his VP is for gun control. 

As the old Zen koan ask, "What is the sound of "one hand clapping"? Macfury, do I clap or no clap? Help me, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Maybe a was referring to a metaphorical wall—like saying I'll destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see, Frank. 2/3 rds of the border is the Rio Grande River ............. how do you build a wall in the middle of a river????????????


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see, Frank. 2/3 rds of the border is the Rio Grande River ............. how do you build a wall in the middle of a river????????????



Well, it would have to be HUUUUUGGGE!!! 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Well, it would have to be HUUUUUGGGE!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


YUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGEE!!!!

:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Jeb Bush blasts 'abhorrent' Trump shifts on immigration - CNNPolitics.com

"All the things that Donald Trump railed against, he seems to be morphing into," Bush said in a radio interview with Rita Cosby of WABC. "It's kind of disturbing."


----------



## Dr.G.

Build a better immigration system, not a wall (Opinion) - CNN.com

This actually makes more sense than a wall.


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump Is Going To Be Elected*










Donald Trump is going to be elected president.

The American people voted for him a long time ago.

They voted for him when The History Channel went from showing documentaries about the Second World War to “Pawn Stars” and “Swamp People.”

They voted for him when The Discovery Channel went from showing “Lost Treasures of the Yangtze Valley” to “Naked and Afraid.”

They voted for him when The Learning Channel moved from something you could learn from to “My 600-lb Life.”

They voted for him when CBS went from airing “Harvest of Shame” to airing “Big Brother.”

These networks didn’t make these programming changes by accident. They were responding to what the American people actually wanted. And what they wanted was “Naked and Afraid” and “Duck Dynasty.”

* * *​
We are a TV-based culture. We have been for some time now. The average American spends 5 hours a day, every day, watching TV. After sleep, it is our number one activity.

More shockingly, we spend 8.5 hours a day staring at screens — phones, tablets, computers. And more and more of the content on those devices is also video and TV.

* * *​
Today, political conventions are nothing but carefully directed TV shows. Likewise “debates.” They exist only to entertain a TV audience. TV and entertainment now dictate everything political. It is a never-ending show. The biggest reality show on air.

And Donald Trump is great TV.

He knows how to entertain.

He understands ratings.

Hillary Clinton is crap TV.

She may be smarter, better prepared, a better politician. It won’t matter. She is terrible entertainment.

* * *​
In 1825, the great French gastronom Brillat de Savarind said, “Tell me what you eat, and I will tell you what you are.” Today, in America, we can safely say, “Tell me what you watch, and I will tell you what you are.”

And what do we watch?

It isn’t “PBS NewsHour.”​(HuffPo)​


----------



## FeXL

Yes, Trump will be elected. But it ain't gonna be because the left is watching crap TV...


----------



## FeXL

Even further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

The Return of the Obamacare Death Spiral



> Earlier this week, Aetna, which covers about 900,000 people through the health exchanges created under Obamacare, announced that it would dramatically reduce its presence those exchanges. Instead of expanding into five new states this year, as the insurer had previously planned, the company said that it would drop out of 11 of the 15 states in which it currently sells under the law.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Serial Liar.

Company Hillary Used To Wipe Servers Brags About Stifling Investigation



> “She and her lawyers had those emails deleted. And they didn’t just push the delete button; they had them deleted where even God can’t read them. They were using something called BleachBit. *You don’t use BleachBit for yoga emails or bridesmaids emails.* When you’re using BleachBit, it is something you really do not want the world to see,” Gowdy said on Fox News.


M'bold.

Well, sure you do. Just ask Bill's Wife at the next news conference. 

Oh, wait. She hasn't had one in 9 months...


----------



## FeXL

Oh, this is...scrumptious...

Media Report: 25% of Current Florida Primary Ballots Never Voted Before, EVER…



> Throughout this entire year there have been indications the “Monster Vote” is very real, but you have to look carefully to see them – and, obviously, you must inoculate yourself from conformational bias. 400,000 donations to Trump less than $200 in June was one such example. The social media app Zip App is yet another. 2,000,000 views of an innocuous Trump facebook video within 24 hours is another.


More:



> _“This is huge,” said Marian Johnson, senior vice president of political strategy for the Florida Chamber and one of the foremost experts on Florida campaigns and politics. “I can envision election night when the votes are counted that certain people win that nobody thought had a chance, and that being attributed to this trend.”
> 
> As of Thursday morning, more than 855,000 primary ballots had been cast by mail. More than a quarter of those votes came from Floridians *who had not voted in the last four primaries* and another 20 percent from people who voted in just one of the last four primaries.
> 
> *In other words, these are not “likely voters” surveyed by most pollsters or targeted by sophisticated political campaigns.*_​


Link's bold.

Na na na, na. Hey, hey...


----------



## FeXL

What could Huma possibly be hiding?

Nothing to See: Huma Abedin’s Emails 100 Percent Redacted



> I’d love to hear again how there was no classified information in State Department emails between Hillary Clinton and Huma Abedin. If that’s the case, why are many of Huma Abedin’s emails 100 percent redacted?


----------



## FeXL

Just one more reason why I don't use Google.

RED ALERT: NYT Asks Google to Censor Search Results Related to Hillary's Health Problems and They Do It



> Some radical nutjob and New York Times reporter (but I repeat myself) recently called on Google to censor search results related to Hillary's numerous health issues.
> 
> _Farhad Manjoo is a reporter for the New York Times who writes about tech issues. His latest passion is a beef with free speech, though of course, as a leftist, he would never frame it that way.
> 
> More specifically, Manjoo is upset that a Google search about Hillary’s health turns up what he calls “conspiracy theories.” And because he’s decided that the negative information available on line about her health is unfounded, Google should “fix” the problem._​
> Based on my research, it would appear that Google is now obliging that request:


The debates are going to be very interesting:

Hillary's Coughing and the Debates



> The sound and sight of an old, fat, sick coughing woman beside a healthy and vigorous man speaking confidently and clearly can only hurt Hillary and help Trump. Whether this is "fair" or not we can leave to leftists obsessed with "fairness," but most Americans, who want a strong and robust leader, eschew these silly notions.
> 
> Hillary's uncontrolled coughing will be the story coming out of the debate, no matter what the candidates actually said, and that will make her health an issue that may not go away until Election Day. If voters go into the ballot booth really wondering if she is healthy enough to be president, that negates all the arguments her campaign is making that Trump is temperamentally unsuited to be president.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yes, Trump will be elected. But it ain't gonna be because the left is watching crap TV...


And certainly not because Hillary is "intelligent."


----------



## fjnmusic

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----------



## Dr.G.

Not so fast. I think that Trump will take Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Nevada, Arizona and Ohio ........... thus making him the 45th president. I truly hope that I am wrong in my speculations, but we shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Not so fast. I think that Trump will take Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Nevada, Arizona and Ohio ........... thus making him the 45th president.


Atta boy! Just the way I got it figgered too...


----------



## FeXL

And, while we're preemptively celebrating Trump's victory, let's talk a bit more about the Pathological Liar.

_Apparently_, she missed a few of those work related emails on her server...

Dozens of Hillary Clinton Emails About Benghazi Found in 15,000 Messages She Kept from FBI



> The State Department says about 30 emails that may be related to the 2012 attack on U.S. compounds in Benghazi, Libya, are among the thousands of Hillary Clinton emails recovered during the FBI’s recently closed investigation into her use of a private server.


(love the AP photo at the top link)

Now 30 BENGHAZI-related emails have been recovered from Hillary's server – and they weren't in the batch she turned over to the State Department



> The State Department says about 30 emails that may be related to the 2012 attack on U.S. compounds in Benghazi, Libya, are among the thousands of Hillary Clinton emails recovered during the FBI's recently closed investigation into her use of a private server.
> 
> Government lawyers told U.S. District Court Judge Amit P. Mehta Tuesday that an undetermined number of the emails among the 30 were not included in the 55,000 pages previously provided by Clinton.
> 
> The State Department's lawyer said it would need until the end of September to review the emails and redact potentially classified information before they are released.


Plenty enough time before the vote in November...


----------



## FeXL

What an idiot...

Kerry: Media Should Cover Terrorism Less So People Won't Know What's Going On



> Secretary of State John Kerry wishes mainstream media coverage were even more biased than it already is --- and that more airtime would be dedicated to the dangers of air conditioning units than to terrorism.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Not so fast. I think that Trump will take Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Nevada, Arizona and Ohio ........... thus making him the 45th president. I truly hope that I am wrong in my speculations, but we shall see.


I agree! i see Georgia and Ohio going to Trump and Florida is in play but I think he will rap that up.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Atta boy! Just the way I got it figgered too...


Well, I am still voting for Clinton in Georgia.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I agree! i see Georgia and Ohio going to Trump and Florida is in play but I think he will rap that up.


Yes, given that the progressive candidates in the Florida Democratic primaries all lost.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Not so fast. I think that Trump will take Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Nevada, Arizona and Ohio ........... thus making him the 45th president. I truly hope that I am wrong in my speculations, but we shall see.



Such a weird system them Murikans have. All or nothing for each state.


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Such a weird system them Murikans have. All or nothing for each state.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true, Frank.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump visits Mexico, whose leader compared him to Hitler - CNNPolitics.com

Something is afoot ................. 

"WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—President Barack Obama defended his decision on Wednesday to issue a payment of five billion dollars to Mexico to compel that nation to retain custody of Donald J. Trump.

The payment, which will be delivered to the Mexican government in hard American currency by Wednesday afternoon, will insure that Trump will remain in Mexico for the rest of his natural life.

“I have been assured by the government of Mexico that Mr. Trump will be well taken care of and, if he proves to be a productive member of their society, will be provided a pathway to Mexican citizenship,” Obama said."

:lmao::lmao:

Obama Pays Mexico Five Billion Dollars to Keep Donald Trump - The New Yorker


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how did Bill's Wife do after she left State?

Clinton emailed classified info after leaving State: report



> VERTISEMENT
> The Democratic presidential nominee sent an email to a group of diplomats and aides on May 28, 2013, about the "123 Deal" — a 2009 agreement between the United Arab Emirates and the U.S. regarding nuclear energy production — according to the Post.
> 
> It was sent from the address [email protected] — which is associated with Clinton's private email server — and has been heavily redacted because it includes information that is classified, according to The Post.


More:



> “Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified information was so pervasive it continued after she left government,” Republican National Committee research director Raj Shah told the Post.
> 
> *“She clearly can’t be trusted with our nation’s security.”*


M'bold.

No argument...


----------



## fjnmusic

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## Macfury

We're really going for rock bottom quoting Meathead.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> We're really going for rock bottom quoting Meathead.


Surely you're not surprised, this coming from Mr. HOLI himself. After all, the acronym was coined specifically for him...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Surely you're not surprised, this coming from Mr. HOLI himself. After all, the acronym was coined specifically for him...


It kills me to see "progressives' fawning over the opinions of actors.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It kills me to see "progressives' fawning over the opinions of actors.


Sorry ............ Clint Eastwood was talking to empty chairs.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry ............ Clint Eastwood was talking to empty chairs.


Will all respect, Dr.G, yes, he was.

And his point had a lot more bearing on the truth than Meathead.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Will all respect, Dr.G, yes, he was.
> 
> And his point had a lot more bearing on the truth than Meathead.


Macfury, that is debatable. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry ............ Clint Eastwood was talking to empty chairs.





FeXL said:


> Will all respect, Dr.G, yes, he was.
> 
> And his point had a lot more bearing on the truth than Meathead.


I think the meathead hit the nail square on the head. This will be fully confirmed once Hillary starts shilling south of the Rio Grande.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I think the meathead hit the nail square on the head. This will be fully confirmed once Hillary starts shilling south of the Rio Grande.


"Shilling"?????


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> *Macfury*, that is debatable. Paix, mon ami.


Dr.G, I know I'm eminently forgettable, but my name was on my post...


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> We're really going for rock bottom quoting Meathead.



Apparently you are unable to distinguish between the character and the actor who plays him. Rob Reiner is also a brilliant director, with The Princess Bride, This Is Spinal Tap, and A Few Good Men among the many film credits to his name. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry ............ Clint Eastwood was talking to empty chairs.



Exactly. Apparently ol' Clint might have lost it a little bit for that performance. He was certainly no Harry Callahan nor Josey Wales.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Dr.G, I know I'm eminently forgettable, but my name was on my post...




That's just your opinion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

And how does working on_ The Princess Bride _make him an expert on politics?



fjnmusic said:


> Apparently you are unable to distinguish between the character and the actor who plays him. Rob Reiner is also a brilliant director, with The Princess Bride, This Is Spinal Tap, and A Few Good Men among the many film credits to his name.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G, I know I'm eminently forgettable, but my name was on my post...


I was just curious to know what you meant by the word "shilling". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Apparently you are unable to distinguish between the character and the actor who plays him. Rob Reiner is also a brilliant director, with The Princess Bride, This Is Spinal Tap, and A Few Good Men among the many film credits to his name.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true, Frank. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G, I know I'm eminently forgettable, but my name was on my post...


Ooppps. Mea culpa. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> And how does working on_ The Princess Bride _make him an expert on politics?



How does writing on a public forum make you an expert on anything? 


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## Macfury

Expressing expertise on a forum does not make one an expert--you either are or are not an expert before you post. 



fjnmusic said:


> How does writing on a public forum make you an expert on anything?


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> I was just curious to know what you meant by the word "shilling". Paix, mon ami.


In this case promoting Immigration Snake Oil in exchange for generous donations to the Clinton Foundation.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> In this case promoting Immigration Snake Oil in exchange for generous donations to the Clinton Foundation.


I see. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Expressing expertise on a forum does not make one an expert--you either are or are not an expert before you post.



Exactly.


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----------



## Macfury

This is why I am an expert. And Rob Reiner is a director of movies. 



fjnmusic said:


> Exactly.


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting idea. May I, with all due respect, suggest that we should conscript federal politicians as test subjects. Being the least useful and most harmful members of society makes them ideal subjects. Should something go wrong the nation would still benefit. 

Perhaps they should start with Donald and Hillary and continue the test right through 2020.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/hibernating-astronauts-may-key-mars-colonization-105928373.html


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> This is why I am an expert. And Rob Reiner is a director of movies.



You can call yourself anything you want. It takes a great deal of wisdom, awareness, and patience to be a film director of Mr. Reiner's calibre. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It certainly doesn't make him quotable on politics, as you've demonstrated.



fjnmusic said:


> You can call yourself anything you want. It takes a great deal of wisdom, awareness, and patience to be a film director of Mr. Reiner's calibre.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It certainly doesn't make him quotable on politics, as you've demonstrated.


C'mon, you heartless bastard! He's 50!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XriXDtfqCg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92YQbNLnh_Q

Cute ............... Take your pick.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It certainly doesn't make him quotable on politics, as you've demonstrated.



Au contraire, mon ami. His words show considerable wit and awareness, certainly more than the average high opinion low information Trump supporter demonstrates. No offense. 


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----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XriXDtfqCg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92YQbNLnh_Q
> 
> 
> 
> Cute ............... Take your pick.



Yup! I know I may have posted this before, but it's worth a repost. Donny, you're out of your element here. (Caution: blue language)

https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q


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----------



## Macfury

It's possible he passes the low standards of "progressives" for what they call wit. Rob will never hold a candle to his old man.



fjnmusic said:


> Au contraire, mon ami. His words show considerable wit and awareness, certainly more than the average high opinion low information Trump supporter demonstrates. No offense.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Yup! I know I may have posted this before, but it's worth a repost. Donny, you're out of your element here. (Caution: blue language)
> 
> https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

When even the _NYT_ awakens...

Gray Lady Raises the White Flag on Obamacare



> Six years after a Democratic majority rammed the most complex piece of domestic legislation in decades through a party line vote, using a legislative technique that ensured the final bill would be a mess that nobody actually advocated, the law, shockingly, isn’t working very well. Enrollment is only half of what proponents expected, premiums are going up by double-digits, healthy people are shunning what they see as an over-priced and underperforming program, the ‘cooperatives’ that Democratic wonks gushed over are going belly-up, and insurance companies are fleeing the market in droves.
> 
> *And even more amazingly, the New York Times has sorted through the chaos and come up with the conclusion that the Obamacare mess is serious, costly, damaging—and very, very hard to fix.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Well done, Barry!!!

U.S., others agreed 'secret' exemptions for Iran after nuclear deal: think tank



> The United States and its negotiating partners agreed "in secret" to allow Iran to evade some restrictions in last year's landmark nuclear agreement in order to meet the deadline for it to start getting relief from economic sanctions, according to a think tank report published on Thursday.


----------



## FeXL

Looks like?!

Blurred lines? Looks like Clinton Foundation exec and Huma were up to some ‘shady’ stuff



> _Breaking: Email from 2009 shows top Clinton Foundation exec ask Abedin to get him & colleagues diplomatic passports._​


But it's not illegal when the Dems do it...


----------



## FeXL

So, last year the Dems put out a top secret memo on how to handle BLM.

Dem Memo On "Best Practices" For "Black Lives"



> In a confidential memo to fellow staffers, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s diversity director last year outlined “best practices” when dealing with the "radical" Black Lives Matter movement, including the avoidance of phrases like “all lives matter” and “black on black crime,” which “anger BLM activists” and are “viewed as red herring attacks.”


BLM's reaction to being handled:

Black Lives Matter accuses Dems of 'placating' group, after memo leaked



> Black Lives Matter slammed the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee after a memo leaked late Wednesday seemed to show the group carefully coaching candidates on how to avoid angering the "radical" activists.
> 
> The November 2015 memo included tips like: Do not offer “support for concrete policy positions;” be sure to "lead from behind;" stick to "small" meetings; and avoid mentioning terms like "black-on-black crime."


I jes' luvs it when the chickens come home to roost.

Hey, BLM, the Dems are _not_ your friends. You are a means to an end, just like anybody else they can handle...


----------



## Dr.G.

Oops.

Frost, Mending Wall

"Before I built a wall I'd ask to know 
What I was walling in or walling out, 
And to whom I was like to give offence. "

MENDING WALL
Robert Frost


----------



## Dr.G.

All too true ............


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> All too true ............



Damn those progressives! I wanted everyone to work on Monday. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Damn those progressives! I wanted everyone to work on Monday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bug humbar!!!!!!!!!!!! Be in to work all the earlier on Tuesday.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump-Clinton presidential debate moderators are announced - World - CBC News

These debates could determine the winner in this year's election. We shall see.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Trump-Clinton presidential debate moderators are announced - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> These debates could determine the winner in this year's election. We shall see.



Trump cannot debate, unfortunately. He will have to come up with new ways to insult Hillary's cankles to throw her off her game.


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----------



## Macfury

Hillary has grown accustomed to her cankles.



fjnmusic said:


> Trump cannot debate, unfortunately. He will have to come up with new ways to insult Hillary's cankles to throw her off her game.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

A year ago, I thought it would be entertaining to watch this cluster**** that is the US Presidential election, revelling in no small amount of schadenfreud as the most destructive global political power implodes under its own self-imposed idiocy.

But it has become just terribly, terribly sad... that "the best" candidates for the top political position in that country are a sunburnt and impossibly-coiffed racist billionaire supported by the dumbest and poorest groups against their own interests, and this scandal-ridden, deceitful, wallstreet darling with legitimately concerning health problems.

It's akin to watching a train wreck: fascinating in the destructive act, impossible to turn away from, and yet tragic beyond belief.

Today's Hilary report: Hillary Clinton's 'difficult relationship with the truth' dogs her campaign - World - CBC News


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Trump cannot debate, unfortunately. He will have to come up with new ways to insult Hillary's cankles to throw her off her game.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am sure that he can come up with some good insults.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> A year ago, I thought it would be entertaining to watch this cluster**** that is the US Presidential election, revelling in no small amount of schadenfreud as the most destructive global political power implodes under its own self-imposed idiocy.
> 
> But it has become just terribly, terribly sad... that "the best" candidates for the top political position in that country are a sunburnt and impossibly-coiffed racist billionaire supported by the dumbest and poorest groups against their own interests, and this scandal-ridden, deceitful, wallstreet darling with legitimately concerning health problems.
> 
> It's akin to watching a train wreck: fascinating in the destructive act, impossible to turn away from, and yet tragic beyond belief.
> 
> Today's Hilary report: Hillary Clinton's 'difficult relationship with the truth' dogs her campaign - World - CBC News


Mark, I am curious. What was the reaction in Mexico of what Trump said there and then what he said once he was in Arizona?


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> Trump cannot debate, unfortunately. He will have to come up with new ways to insult Hillary's cankles to throw her off her game.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So far Hillary has as much to show in the way of policy, as the TSA has to show in captured terrorists. IOW Absolute zero.

Her entire campaign is focused on the theme: "I am not Trump". She seems to have set the bar at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.


----------



## CubaMark

Mexicans were unanimously asking themselves: "Why they hell did Peña Nieto invite Trump to Mexico?" No-one on either side of the political spectrum thought it was a good idea. And the He Said / He Said about who is going to pay for the wall has gotten a lot of attention as well.

Peña Nieto may have thought this was a good idea to distract the nation from the latest scandal in his administration (there have been many): it was revealed that approximately 30% of the President's thesis in Law was plagiarized.... Including quite a bit from one of my colleagues (he was initially pissed, then quite pleased, once demand for reprints of his book went through the roof).


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Mexicans were unanimously asking themselves: "Why they hell did Peña Nieto invite Trump to Mexico?" No-one on either side of the political spectrum thought it was a good idea. And the He Said / He Said about who is going to pay for the wall has gotten a lot of attention as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Peña Nieto may have thought this was a good idea to distract the nation from the latest scandal in his administration (there have been many): it was revealed that approximately 30% of the President's thesis in Law was plagiarized.... Including quite a bit from one of my colleagues (he was initially pissed, then quite pleased, once demand for reprints of his book went through the roof).



Yup, this President is none too popular with his people. On the subject of walls, former President Vicente Fox declared that Mexico would not pay for that "[email protected] wall," and that Peña Nieto would be viewed as a traitor to his country. Pretty strong words from a guy who knows a thing or two. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

What "thing or two" does Vincente Fox know?



fjnmusic said:


> Yup, this President is none too popular with his people. On the subject of walls, former President Vicente Fox declared that Mexico would not pay for that "[email protected] wall," and that Peña Nieto would be viewed as a traitor to his country. Pretty strong words from a guy who knows a thing or two.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> What "thing or two" does Vincente Fox know?



He knows the mood of the Mexican people better than his successor. Do you disagree? 

https://youtu.be/yiEpaYhm97Q


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I don't believe there's enough evidence either way. His impotent anger over Trump doesn't really say anything either.



fjnmusic said:


> He knows the mood of the Mexican people better than his successor. Do you disagree?
> 
> https://youtu.be/yiEpaYhm97Q
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't believe there's enough evidence either way. His impotent anger over Trump doesn't really say anything either.



I can't imagine there's a single Mexican who's in favour of the wall, much less paying for it, even but would be useful for keeping Americans out. It makes one wonder what this new president is trying to achieve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

As Trump said, it would also help to stem a drug trade that is decimating Mexico, and also help keep illegal arms out of Mexico. Some Mexicans would see that as a positive.



fjnmusic said:


> I can't imagine there's a single Mexican who's in favour of the wall, much less paying for it, even but would be useful for keeping Americans out. It makes one wonder what this new president is trying to achieve.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> As Trump said, it would also help to stem a drug trade that is decimating Mexico, and also help keep illegal arms out of Mexico. Some Mexicans would see that as a positive.



Perhaps, but he's not saying to appeal to the Mexican people. His only interest is in what he perceives is "good for America." Or to put it another way, what will make him a Winner rather than a Loser. If this presidential bid doesn't work out, just like the one in the 1980's didn't, he could make tons more as a motivational speaker, for a fraction of the effort. There are millions of HOLI folks out there that would pay to hear their Messiah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Clearly that's your opinion. But I don't hold much stock in it.

Why didn't you mention how much Hillary Clinton charges to speak at events that pay her foundation for favours?



fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps, but he's not saying to appeal to the Mexican people. His only interest is in what he perceives is "good for America." Or to put it another way, what will make him a Winner rather than a Loser. If this presidential bid doesn't work out, just like the one in the 1980's didn't, he could make tons more as a motivational speaker, for a fraction of the effort. There are millions of HOLI folks out there that would pay to hear their Messiah.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> As Trump said, it would also help to stem a drug trade that is decimating Mexico, and also help keep illegal arms out of Mexico. Some Mexicans would see that as a positive.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :lmao: ad infinitum....

Don't tell me people are falling for that? :yikes:


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :lmao: ad infinitum....
> 
> 
> 
> Don't tell me people are falling for that? :yikes:



High Opinion Low Information voters will fall for anything. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

You just fell for CM's post, which contained no information--way to go!



fjnmusic said:


> High Opinion Low Information voters will fall for anything.


----------



## fjnmusic

Same paper, same dates, different markets. What did you just learn? Feeling manipulated yet?











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I just learned that you were duped. It isn't regional. One is the two-star edition and the other is the four-star edition which came out later. Trump spoke more strongly about the wall following the conference with the Mexican president and the final edition incorporates that information.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I just learned that you were duped. It isn't regional. One is the two-star edition and the other is the four-star edition which came out later. Trump spoke more strongly about the wall following the conference with the Mexican president and the final edition incorporates that information.



Methinks orange pale face speak with forked tongue. 


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## Macfury

Do you think using aboriginal stereotypes is a good idea?



fjnmusic said:


> Methinks orange pale face speak with forked tongue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Do you think using aboriginal stereotypes is a good idea?



Ooh! Hoisted by my own petards, as they say. Methinks Trump sends out different messages depending on the audience. That better? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Hehehe


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Methinks Trump sends out different messages depending on the audience.


He told both audiences he was going to build a wall. It was the WSJ that changed the reporting once he got to to Arizona and spoke at a rally where he was more gung-ho about the wall.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> He told both audiences he was going to build a wall. It was the WSJ that changed the reporting once he got to to Arizona and spoke at a rally where he was more gung-ho about the wall.



Somehow I think the enthusiasm may have shifted slightly too depending on the audience. Why in the world would you think Mexico, a poor country compared with America's wealth, would want to punch for the cost of building a wall, right down the middle of the Rio Grande, that they don't even want to begin with? Please explain to me, in a way a simpleton like me can understand, how this is going to work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Why in the world would you think Mexico, a poor country compared with America's wealth, would want to punch for the cost of building a wall, right down the middle of the Rio Grande, that they don't even want to begin with?


As much as Mexico may talk about wanting to normalize the flow of migrant workers and emigrants to the USA, in reality it desperately needs the remittance flow (money sent home from Mexicans living in the USA.

In 2015, Mexico received *$24.8 Billion* (yes, that's a "*B*") in remittances... that's more than the oil revenue from the state-owned (and currently in slow-motion "nah, we're not" privatization) Pemex oil company.

:yikes:


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hehehe


:clap::clap::clap:

Viva Mexico.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Somehow I think the enthusiasm may have shifted slightly too depending on the audience. Why in the world would you think Mexico, a poor country compared with America's wealth, would want to punch for the cost of building a wall, right down the middle of the Rio Grande, that they don't even want to begin with? Please explain to me, in a way a simpleton like me can understand, how this is going to work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Taxing remittances.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://medium.com/@wilw/that-clint...-actually-about-trump-6d4291edc324#.l6fbk1oaq

Interesting article.


----------



## Dr.G.

Libertarian Gary Johnson's presidential fate to be decided in coming days - Politics - CBC News

Another interesting article.


----------



## heavyall

When both the RNC and the DNC are running absolute jackasses as their candidate, you'd think this election (more than any other in recent memory) would make a credible third choice really popular. It's pretty bizarre that Johnson is still struggling to meet the 15% threshold.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bama-staircase-flap/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

Luckily, Pres. Obama is more of a diplomat than to let the Chinese have the last laugh. Also, better to stay and talk tough to the Chinese and Russians, as he has, than to leave in a hissy fit.


----------



## Dr.G.

Very interesting.

Harvard Republican Club Just Did THIS For The First Time In Their History…And Trump Is Furious. – Democratic Review

"We call on our party’s elected leaders to renounce their support of Donald Trump, and urge our fellow College Republicans to join us in condemning and withholding their endorsement from this dangerous man. The conservative movement in America should not and will not go quietly into the night.

A longtime student of American democracy, Alexis de Tocqueville once said, “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”

De Tocqueville believed in the United States. Americans are a decent people. We work hard, protect our own, and look out for one another in times of need, regardless of the color of our skin, the God we worship, or our party registration. Donald Trump may not believe in that America, but we do. And that America will never cease to be great.

The Harvard Republican Club”


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> When both the RNC and the DNC are running absolute jackasses as their candidate, you'd think this election (more than any other in recent memory) would make a credible third choice really popular. It's pretty bizarre that Johnson is still struggling to meet the 15% threshold.



Old habits die hard.


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## FeXL

Tells me everything I need to know about the Hahvahd Repuhblicahn Cluhb...



Dr.G. said:


> Very interesting.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Harvard Republican Club Just Did THIS For The First Time In Their History…And Trump Is Furious. – Democratic Review
> 
> 
> 
> "We call on our party’s elected leaders to renounce their support of Donald Trump, and urge our fellow College Republicans to join us in condemning and withholding their endorsement from this dangerous man. The conservative movement in America should not and will not go quietly into the night.
> 
> 
> 
> A longtime student of American democracy, Alexis de Tocqueville once said, “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”
> 
> 
> 
> De Tocqueville believed in the United States. Americans are a decent people. We work hard, protect our own, and look out for one another in times of need, regardless of the color of our skin, the God we worship, or our party registration. Donald Trump may not believe in that America, but we do. And that America will never cease to be great.
> 
> 
> 
> The Harvard Republican Club”



Sounds like the Harvard Republican Club will be the first ones in the ovens if Mr. Trump ends up being elected. 


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## FeXL

Sounds like they've climbed in themselves already...



fjnmusic said:


> Sounds like the Harvard Republican Club will be the first ones in the ovens if Mr. Trump ends up being elected.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Tells me everything I need to know about the Hahvahd Repuhblicahn Cluhb...


:clap::clap: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sounds like the Harvard Republican Club will be the first ones in the ovens if Mr. Trump ends up being elected.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Hey, what's Bill's Wife been up to?

FBI: Hostile Foreign Hackers Accessed Accounts That Emailed Clinton’s Server



> Hostile foreign actors successfully gained access to several email accounts Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton regularly contacted on her unsecured email server while she served as secretary of state, according to investigation notes released by the FBI.
> 
> The released notes gave no further details regarding the nationality of the hostile hackers, but the FBI was able to confirm that hacking the accounts allowed them to gain access to emails sent to or from Clinton from other users’ accounts.


The 26 Things Clinton "Could Not Recall" During Her FBI Interview



> *But it turns out Hillary "could not recall" a lot of things about her tenure as Secretary of State.* In fact, during her 3.5 hour interview with the FBI, Hillary couldn't recall at least 26 questions posed by the FBI, at least some of which were fairly material events during her service which probably should have stood out. Below is a list of just a couple of the things Hillary "could not recall."


Links' bold.

13 mobile devices. 2 devices recovered. 11 devices still missing. Hillary Clinton was more than just “careless”



> Remember when Hillary Clinton said, “_*I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal e-mails instead of two.*_”


Yep...

More:



> Newly-released FBI documents on the investigation into her mishandling of classified information show that while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used 11 smartphones, and 2 devices thereafter.


The Mail Ate Hillary’s Laptop: More From The FBI Files



> Now it turns out that we’re supposed to believe Hillary’s laptop was lost in the mail. Just lost.
> 
> _A laptop containing a copy, or “archive,” of the emails on Hillary Clinton’s private server was apparently lost—in the postal mail—according to an FBI report released Friday. Along with it, a thumb drive that also contained an archive of Clinton’s emails has been lost and is not in the FBI’s possession_​.
> 
> Does anyone out there know anyone who would simply stick a laptop in the mail, in a cavalier manner that would leave it susceptible to being “lost”? Maybe you think you know someone silly enough to do that — but it’s completely non-credible to suggest that such a person would get within a mile of a laptop loaded with an archive from Hillary Clinton’s private server.


49 ABOMINABLE FACTS ABOUT HILLARY THE MEDIA WON'T TELL YOU



> If you listen to the news, the only real reporting being done about Hillary Clinton has to do with her email scandal. Even though she violated the Espionage Act, the FBI refused to prosecute. Her family’s foundation is under heavy scrutiny. But did you know these other important points about Hillary’s life-long run to the White House?


23 Shocking Revelations From The FBI’s Clinton Email Report



> The FBI’s Hillary Clinton email investigation report contains numerous bombshells that show just how careless the former secretary of state was in maintaining and using a private email system while in office.
> 
> Here are 23 of the most surprising findings from the 47-page report, which was released on Friday, at the beginning of Labor Day weekend.


Clinton emails wiped clean after NYT story



> A number of Hillary ClintonHillary Rodham ClintonNorth Carolina early voting cuts could dampen black vote The Hill's 12:30 Report New Benghazi emails released, but contain little of substance MORE’s private emails were erased weeks after The New York Times published a story reporting on her use of a private email server while secretary of State, according to notes from the FBI’s investigation released on Friday.
> 
> The notes include an entry that says that someone mistakenly deleted Clinton’s archived mailbox from her server and exported files.
> 
> The deletion took place between March 25 and March 31, the FBI learned in a May 3 interview. The name of the person who deleted the emails was redacted from the FBI’s notes.
> 
> *“In a follow-up FBI interview on May 3, 2016, ------ Indicated he believed he had an 'oh s--t' moment and sometime between March 25-31, 2015 deleted the Clinton archive mailbox from PRN server and used BleachBit to delete the exported .PST files he had created on the server system containing Clinton;s e-mails,” the FBI notes released on Friday stated.*


'oh s--t', alright...

Clinton Aides Told FBI They Didn’t Know About Server, But Emails Suggest Otherwise



> Several Hillary Clinton State Department aides told the FBI that they were unaware of the former secretary of state’s private email server, a report from the bureau’s investigation shows. But a Daily Caller review of public documents reveals that at least two of the aides, Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills, were involved in multiple email exchanges in which Clinton’s server was discussed.


'We wired it': Emails suggest Clinton aide stage-managed Benghazi hearing questions



> Newly released emails suggest a senior Hillary Clinton aide stage-managed her first hearing on the Benghazi terrorist attack by feeding specific topics Clinton wanted to address to Democratic Sen. Robert Menendez, who at the time was acting chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee.


Naaaahhhh...

At least some Americans are getting it:

WHOA – Anti-Hillary Gear FLYING Off The Shelves…Trump Gear Is…



> A major online merchandiser that specializes in funny, sometimes politically themed t-shirts and other swag says one side is outselling the other by a spectacular margin.
> 
> Because these unofficial Republican and Democratic-themed products are designed by ordinary site users themselves, these sales figures provide a fascinating glimpse into genuine grassroots sentiments.
> 
> Breitbart reports:
> 
> _While some polls after the Republican and Democratic conventions show Donald Trump tied with Hillary Clinton, internet retailer CafePress claims it can accurately track the electorate’s mood with its large consumer base — and customers appear to be decidedly anti-Hillary.
> 
> *Anti-Hillary merchandise outsells anti-Trump merchandise by a staggering 814.88 percent.* (…)_​


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

UK journo: Syrian kidnapper who shot me twice is now a CIA-vetted “moderate”



> British reporter Anthony Loyd recounts in _The Times_ (UK) today his reaction when he saw his former Syrian “rebel” kidnapper Hakim Abu Jamal, aka Abdel Hakim al-Yaseen and Hakim Anza, celebrating a victory in northern Syria two weeks ago as part of a supposedly CIA-vetted “moderate” rebel group.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Sounds like the Harvard Republican Club will be the first ones in the ovens if Mr. Trump ends up being elected.


Why are you talking about ovens?


----------



## Macfury

The Chinese are still laughing at Obama. His version of "tough talk" has been the weakest I've ever heard from an American president.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bama-staircase-flap/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1
> 
> Luckily, Pres. Obama is more of a diplomat than to let the Chinese have the last laugh. Also, better to stay and talk tough to the Chinese and Russians, as he has, than to leave in a hissy fit.


----------



## Rps

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, it's September 7th, way too early to look at polls, even cheques for that matter!:lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Why are you talking about ovens?



It's where you put the bodies of dissenters so you can reduce them to ashes. Takes up less room in the landfill. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Rps said:


> Frank, it's September 7th, way too early to look at polls, even cheques for that matter!:lmao:



Hey, Rps. It's an ongoing counting game, much like the ThreeOhEight in Canada. 


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----------



## Macfury

I tend not to overuse holocaust references.



fjnmusic said:


> It's where you put the bodies of dissenters so you can reduce them to ashes. Takes up less room in the landfill.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> It's where you put the bodies of dissenters so you can reduce them to ashes. Takes up less room in the landfill.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> I tend not to overuse holocaust references.


I agree, Macfury. This is not a subject to joke about. However, I don't think Frank meant it as an anti-sematic comment.


----------



## Dr.G.

America had to put up with a president who could not walk (FDR), but it cannot accept a president that cannot speak without coughing.

https://www.conservativeoutfitters....ons-violent-cough-strikes-again-in-ohio-video

Is Clinton (cough) unfit to lead? Hardly - The Globe and Mail


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> I agree, Macfury. This is not a subject to joke about. However, I don't think Frank meant it as an anti-sematic comment.



And I certainly didn't intend this comment as a joke either. More like a poignant observation. Given the bigoted comments Trump has made already about certain ethnic groups, it would be entirely within the realm of possibility for him to sacrifice the Republicans that don't wish to follow his new world order. There are so many comparisons to Hitler's strategies that can be made that one ignores the warning signs at one's peril.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> And I certainly didn't intend this comment as a joke either. More like a poignant observation. Given the bigoted comments Trump has made already about certain ethnic groups, it would be entirely within the realm of possibility for him to sacrifice the Republicans that don't wish to follow his new world order. There are so many comparisons to Hitler's strategies that can be made that one ignores the warning signs at one's peril.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Valid points, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

This is so FUBAR'd I don't even know where to begin.

How about you list a few of Hitler's strategies & compare them word for word with anything Trump has said, Mr. HOLI Man.

Then, when you're done scrambling to CYA, you can explain why 48 people who opposed Bill's Wife are now dead.



fjnmusic said:


> And I certainly didn't intend this comment as a joke either. More like a poignant observation. Given the bigoted comments Trump has made already about certain ethnic groups, it would be entirely within the realm of possibility for him to sacrifice the Republicans that don't wish to follow his new world order. There are so many comparisons to Hitler's strategies that can be made that one ignores the warning signs at one's peril.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> This is so FUBAR'd I don't even know where to begin.
> 
> 
> 
> How about you list a few of Hitler's strategies & compare them word for word with anything Trump has said, Mr. HOLI Man.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, when you're done scrambling to CYA, you can explain why 48 people who opposed Bill's Wife are now dead.



For you? No. You'd never listen anyway, and it would be a waste of my time. For others, I'd certainly consider it. If you don't see the parallels, that's fine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

*Libertarian Party candidate for U.S. President Gary Johnson could do with some brushing up on his foreign policy...*

*'What is Aleppo?' A presidential candidate sets a new bar for ignorance on the US campaign trail*

Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for president, has set a new bar for ignorance on the campaign trail, failing to recognise the name of the city at the heart of the tragedy that is Syria.

Mr Johnson, once Republican Governor of New Mexico, was on Morning Joe, a political breakfast show on MSNBC, when veteran journalist Mike Barnicle, posed a simple question: what would he do about Aleppo and the refugee crisis that the killings there have helped stir?

* * *​
“What is Aleppo?” the silver-haired presidential hopeful inquired with no apparent embarrassment or shame. His face completely blank, he was perhaps asking himself if it was new brand of mosquito-borne disease he was not familiar with. Or was it perhaps a previously undiscovered heroin cocktail driving overdose numbers in the Midwest? Or a new brand of coffee?

Mr Barnicle responded in the only way possible. “You’re kidding me,” he offered, before starting to explain to the candidate, whose running mate, William Weld, is also a former Republican governor, from Massachusetts.​
(Independent UK)


----------



## CubaMark

*Hillary Clinton emails: Colin Powell said he used personal computer to bypass State Department in newly released emails*










Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released a January 2009 email exchange between former Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Hillary Clinton that addresses the matter of a personal device for email. 

Representative Elijah E Cummings, a ranking member of the Committee, released the emails Wednesday night in an effort to defend the Democratic presidential candidate amid an ongoing scandal surrounding her use of private emails servers to conduct State Department business.

Ms Clinton told FBI investigators that Mr Powell had advised her on how to set up her email while serving as the country’s top diplomat. He later spoke out against the claim, telling People magazine that Clinton’s “people” tried to “pin it on” him. 

In the 23 January 2009 exchange, Ms Clinton asked Mr Powell about how he used his email while serving under President George W Bush, only two days after she took office. He claimed he had not sent her such a memo until she had been using the private server for a year. 

“What were the restrictions on your use of your BlackBerry?” Ms Clinton asked. 

He told her that he did not have a BlackBerry but instead used a personal computer hooked up to a private phone line to “communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department servers”. 

Mr Powell continued: “I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders and some of the senior folks in the Department on their personal email accounts. I did the same thing on the road in hotels.”

* * *​
In his statement accompanying the emails, Mr Cummings said that the exchange “illustrates the longstanding problem that no Secretary of State ever used an official unclassified email account until the current Secretary of State”. 

* * *​
“If Republicans were truly concerned with transparency, strengthening FOIA, and preserving federal records,” he said, “they would be attempting to recover Secretary Powell’s emails from AOL, but they have taken no steps to do so despite the fact that this period — including the run-up to the Iraq War — was critical to our nation’s history."​
(Independent UK)


----------



## Macfury

Your voice seems a little muffled from inside that tinfoil hat.



fjnmusic said:


> And I certainly didn't intend this comment as a joke either. More like a poignant observation. Given the bigoted comments Trump has made already about certain ethnic groups, it would be entirely within the realm of possibility for him to sacrifice the Republicans that don't wish to follow his new world order. There are so many comparisons to Hitler's strategies that can be made that one ignores the warning signs at one's peril.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Your voice seems a little muffled from inside that tinfoil hat.



Surely this can't be the first time you've heard of comparisons between Adolph and Donald. I thought you were one of those guys that was up on the news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's the talk of fools, built on a pitiful base of conformation bias.



fjnmusic said:


> Surely this can't be the first time you've heard of comparisons between Adolph and Donald. I thought you were one of those guys that was up on the news.


----------



## FeXL

As always...

Got facts? That's what I listen to. Your comparison to Hitler is the same type of screeching, made up, lefty bull**** like you posted a while time back about some sort of alleged Trump scandal that nobody had heard of before or, curiously, since. 

Can't defend Bill's Wife's actions. Can't formulate any real criticism of Trump. Subsequently the Progs have to go out & invent comparisons to scary figures from the past. 

"Well, Trump & Hitler both used the same word. Once..." Ooooooooooo, Trump's a Nazi!!! 

Get a grip.

You want to compare politicians to Hitler? One of the first things Hitler did was disarm the populace. What does Bill's Wife want to do? Same thing...

The only other parallel I see here is your continued inability to defend your uninformed position. On that topic, how's the school coffee klatch doing? Still simmering over your 40% wage reduction? With the whole summer to stew it over, bet the staff room is just hopping, huh? Woe are you...

And, while I'm at it, your reference to ovens is probably the single, most tasteless thing you have ever posted on these boards. If Brian Jean had used those very words, the MSM would have excoriated him for it. Congratulations!!! You've hit a new low. 



fjnmusic said:


> For you? No. You'd never listen anyway, and it would be a waste of my time. For others, I'd certainly consider it. If you don't see the parallels, that's fine.


----------



## FeXL

Again. Because somebody else may or may not have done it, that's s'pose to make it right? Not as wrong? Sting less? What?

I've never understood why you post these. Same as the polygamy issue. In the real world, wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or what kind of precedent has been set.



CubaMark said:


> Hillary Clinton emails: Colin Powell said he used personal computer to bypass State Department in newly released emails


----------



## Macfury

I never cared what Powell said about private e-mails. Drag out his e-mails and prosecute away.

Is this guy supposed to be some sort of paragon of virtue? He was a decent military guy, but a two-faced schnook as a politician.



FeXL said:


> Again. Because somebody else may or may not have done it, that's s'pose to make it right? Not as wrong? Sting less? What?
> 
> I've never understood why you post these. Same as the polygamy issue. In the real world, wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or what kind of precedent has been set.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> As always...
> 
> 
> 
> Got facts? That's what I listen to. Your comparison to Hitler is the same type of screeching, made up, lefty bull**** like you posted a while time back about some sort of alleged Trump scandal that nobody had heard of before or, curiously, since.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't defend Bill's Wife's actions. Can't formulate any real criticism of Trump. Subsequently the Progs have to go out & invent comparisons to scary figures from the past.
> 
> 
> 
> "Well, Trump & Hitler both used the same word. Once..." Ooooooooooo, Trump's a Nazi!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Get a grip.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to compare politicians to Hitler? One of the first things Hitler did was disarm the populace. What does Bill's Wife want to do? Same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> The only other parallel I see here is your continued inability to defend your uninformed position. On that topic, how's the school coffee klatch doing? Still simmering over your 40% wage reduction? With the whole summer to stew it over, bet the staff room is just hopping, huh? Woe are you...
> 
> 
> 
> And, while I'm at it, your reference to ovens is probably the single, most tasteless thing you have ever posted on these boards. If Brian Jean had used those very words, the MSM would have excoriated him for it. Congratulations!!! You've hit a new low.



Nope. Not going to engage. Same old vitriole you always post. 

Speaking of inventions, what is this "school coffee klatch" and "40% wage reduction" you speak of? First time I've heard of it. I know you tend to be a bitter man, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. Please clarify. 

Have a nice day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

NBC's latest poll results.


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> NBC's latest poll results.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am amazed that Georgia, where I vote, is considered a "toss up" state.


----------



## FeXL

Whatever you say, Hillary...



fjnmusic said:


> Speaking of inventions, what is this "school coffee klatch" and "40% wage reduction" you speak of? First time I've heard of it.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G, just like we predicted!!!

New Swing State Polls Have Trump SMILING…And Hillary HACKING! – YUGE



> According to the Reuters/IPSOS polls he tweeted about, Trump is narrowly beating Hillary in Ohio, along with Iowa, New Hampshire and Utah.
> 
> He and Hillary are tied in Maine, Michigan and Wisconsin.


Woohoo!!! Go, Donald!!!


----------



## FeXL

Love the observation by James Woods.

Was Hillary Wearing an Earpiece During Last Night’s Presidential Forum?



> Conservative actor James Woods drew attention the issue with the simple question, “Earpiece?” and a close up image of Hillary from last night’s forum.


More:



> “She can’t even #lie without help from a gaggle of other #liars through an earpiece,” tweeted Woods.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Read another article on the same topic. All Trump needs to do to screw up her earpiece is to transmit radio noise across the spectrum.


----------



## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Whatever you say, Hillary...



Honestly, you are an enigma, yet one for which I suffer from a deplorable lack of curiousity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

And yet you are as transparent as fine crystal...



fjnmusic said:


> Honestly, you are an enigma, yet one for which I suffer from a deplorable lack of curiousity.


----------



## CubaMark

_"I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly...All I can tell you -- it is a foolproof way of winning."_
-- Donald Trump, June 2015​
_"I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me."_
-- Trump, November 2015​
_"Under the leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton the generals have been reduced to rubble. They have been reduced to a point that's embarrassing for our country."_
-- Trump, September 2016​
_"We're going to convene my top generals and give them a simple instruction: 'You will have 30 days to submit to the Oval Office a plan for soundly and quickly defeating ISIS.' We have no choice."_
-- Trump, September 2016​
(Doonesbury, 9 Sept. 2016)​


----------



## Macfury

And...?



CubaMark said:


> _"I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly...All I can tell you -- it is a foolproof way of winning."_
> -- Donald Trump, June 2015​
> _"I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me."_
> -- Trump, November 2015​
> _"Under the leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton the generals have been reduced to rubble. They have been reduced to a point that's embarrassing for our country."_
> -- Trump, September 2016​
> _"We're going to convene my top generals and give them a simple instruction: 'You will have 30 days to submit to the Oval Office a plan for soundly and quickly defeating ISIS.' We have no choice."_
> -- Trump, September 2016​


​


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> And...?



And it makes Trump sound like a total blowhard, especially all the other things he doesn't actually know about. Like the Constitution he would be sworn to uphold and protect should He become President.


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## Macfury

If you don't understand what Trump was saying, you might misunderstand those quotes to the point where they make no sense to you. No reason to get out of your box, though!



fjnmusic said:


> And it makes Trump sound like a total blowhard, especially all the other things he doesn't actually know about. Like the Constitution he would be sworn to uphold and protect should He become President.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

fjnmusic said:


> And it makes Trump sound like a total blowhard, especially all the other things he doesn't actually know about. Like the Constitution he would be sworn to uphold and protect should He become President.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is there any article of the Bill of Rights that has not already been shredded by either Bush or Obama? 

Since his predecessors treated the Constitution with total contempt I see no reason for it to worry Trump. OTOH Hillary has promised to stay the course in this matter. So we have evil to the right and evil even further to the right.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> If you don't understand what Trump was saying, you might misunderstand those quotes to the point where they make no sense to you.


If you'd like to decipher Trump's incoherent ramblings for us mere mortals, we welcome the education. I think, though, that it would be more difficult than handling first contact communication with aliens.

But then, that hasn't stopped Trump's various spokesdisciples from trying....

:lmao:XX):lmao::yikes::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Your confirmation boas is showing CM. Your overdependence on memes and Internet material has stunted your willingness to think.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Your confirmation boas is showing CM. Your overdependence on memes and Internet material has stunted your willingness to think.



And your conservative libertarian bias has blinded you to the fact that Donald Trump is nowhere near intelligent or qualified enough for the job of President of the United States. High Opinion Low Information indeed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

How intelligent is Donald Trump?



fjnmusic said:


> And your conservative libertarian bias has blinded you to the fact that Donald Trump is nowhere near intelligent or qualified enough for the job of President of the United States. High Opinion Low Information indeed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Well, The Donald has frequently claimed to have one of the highest IQs *"...like, ever!"*. One pandering article estimated he was up around 156 (based solely on his having attended a few classes at Wharton). Other estimates put it around 120-130. Most people in North America top out at 115.

In the end, it doesn't matter. You can have a high IQ and still be a psychopath / sociopath / complete and utter racist asshole.....


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Well, The Donald has frequently claimed to have one of the highest IQs *"...like, ever!"*. One pandering article estimated he was up around 156 (based solely on his having attended a few classes at Wharton). Other estimates put it around 120-130. Most people in North America top out at 115.
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, it doesn't matter. You can have a high IQ and still be a psychopath / sociopath / complete and utter racist asshole.....



Psychopaths should have a better IQ than that. In fact, our psychopaths will be the BEST psychopaths, with the BEST IQ's. 


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## Macfury

Or you can be a great President!

Most people may top at out at 115, but then almost as many need to be 83 to average out to 98:

https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country





CubaMark said:


> Well, The Donald has frequently claimed to have one of the highest IQs *"...like, ever!"*. One pandering article estimated he was up around 156 (based solely on his having attended a few classes at Wharton). Other estimates put it around 120-130. Most people in North America top out at 115.
> 
> In the end, it doesn't matter. You can have a high IQ and still be a psychopath / sociopath / complete and utter racist asshole.....


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry, I must have missed something...

Do you know Donald Trump personally? Do you live in the United States?

'Cause if the answer to either one of those questions is no, then your opinion can't possibly count...



fjnmusic said:


> And your conservative libertarian bias has blinded you to the fact that Donald Trump is nowhere near intelligent or qualified enough for the job of President of the United States.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry, I must have missed something...
> 
> Do you know Donald Trump personally? Do you live in the United States?
> 
> 'Cause if the answer to either one of those questions is no, then your opinion can't possibly count...


fjn's great knowledge of the US Constitution is legend!


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> fjn's great knowledge of the US Constitution is legend!



Tell me, smart guy, how many Articles are there in the US Constitution? Which Article did Mr. Trump reference that does not exist? 


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Tell me, smart guy, how many Articles are there in the US Constitution? Which Article did Mr. Trump reference that does not exist?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know ........ I know ............ I know .............. call on me, teacher.

Full disclosure -- I was an American history major and US political science minor in university, and was a high school social studies teacher.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, genius, it doesn't matter. Know why? 'Cause a couple weeks back you called out MF on his post about Red Rachel because "he doesn't live in Alberta", somehow implying that if you don't live there, you don't know squat. 

Using your own logic and, because you don't live in the states, how can you possibly know anything about the US? It doesn't matter what you think you know. 

For that matter, please keep your comments to yourself unless they pertain directly to the once great province of Redberta & preferably the central region. 

Doncha hate when your stupid, arbitrary, pointless rules come back to bite you in the ass? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?



fjnmusic said:


> Tell me, smart guy, how many Articles are there in the US Constitution?


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> I know ........ I know ............ I know .............. call on me, teacher.
> 
> 
> 
> Full disclosure -- I was an American history major and US political science minor in university, and was a high school social studies teacher.




Those are good credentials. 


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## fjnmusic

FeXL said:


> Hey, genius, it doesn't matter. Know why? 'Cause a couple weeks back you called out MF on his post about Red Rachel because "he doesn't live in Alberta", somehow implying that if you don't live there, you don't know squat.
> 
> 
> 
> Using your own logic and, because you don't live in the states, how can you possibly know anything about the US? It doesn't matter what you think you know.
> 
> 
> 
> For that matter, please keep your comments to yourself unless they pertain directly to the once great province of Redberta & preferably the central region.
> 
> 
> 
> Doncha hate when your stupid, arbitrary, pointless rules come back to bite you in the ass? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?



You know what your problem is? You don't chew your food. 


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## Macfury

Hope you didn't spend too much time developing that stinger...


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Hope you didn't spend too much time developing that stinger...



You've never seen Diner? 


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----------



## Macfury

Started but did not finish. Thanks for filling in the reference. Always good to add them to the collection. 



fjnmusic said:


> You've never seen Diner?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Started but did not finish. Thanks for filling in the reference. Always good to add them to the collection.



It's a Paul Reiser line. Classic scene that starts with, "You gonna finish that?"

https://youtu.be/F3QANzPkkR4


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Those are good credentials.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci, mon ami. I also ran as a delegate for Gene McCarthy back in 1968 in NYC, but then they found out I was only 20 years of age and could not vote, so my name never got on the ballot.


----------



## fjnmusic

Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. I also ran as a delegate for Gene McCarthy back in 1968 in NYC, but then they found out I was only 20 years of age and could not vote, so my name never got on the ballot.




20? I thought you had to be 18 to vote? 


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## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> 20? I thought you had to be 18 to vote?


*In 1968*, even in Canada as I recall you had to be 21 to either vote or buy alcohol.


----------



## Rps

Hi guys! Most of you know that I live right across the river from Detroit. One of the charms of this is the over the air reception of the many many tv stations. During the election cycle you could spend hours watching biased PAC ads and less that half-truth or contextually altered quotes of those running for various offices.....even those of the President. This thread, at least to me, is certainly following along with its title. American politics has turned to name calling, selective quotes, bias and complete lack of civil discussion.

So I offer this to re-track the discussion. Being so close to the U.S. I do tend to watch their debates ( as I am sure many of you do ) and what I have noticed is the lack of research and follow up moderators of these debates exhibit. They are more like hosts of "edutainment" minus the "edu". The recent Trump quotes on his opposition to the Iraq war......." In 2004" which the moderator seemed to miss that the war was already active then. It is almost as if the moderators are afraid to call him out. This is poor journalism in my opinion, since many use these debates to choose. Where is the U.S. Steve Pakin? Has anyone else noticed this.......


----------



## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> 20? I thought you had to be 18 to vote?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Back in New York State in 1968, the legal drinking age was 21, the legal voting age was 21, but you could be drafted the day after you 18th birthday and sent to Vietnam. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hi guys! Most of you know that I live right across the river from Detroit. One of the charms of this is the over the air reception of the many many tv stations. During the election cycle you could spend hours watching biased PAC ads and less that half-truth or contextually altered quotes of those S running for various offices.....even those of the President. This thread, at least to me, is certainly following along with its title. American politics has turned to name calling, selective quotes, bias and complete lack of civil discussion.
> 
> So I offer this to re-track the discussion. Being so close to the U.S. I do tend to watch their debates ( as I am sure many of you do ) and what I have noticed is the lack of research and follow up moderators of these debates exhibit. They are more like hosts of "edutainment" minus the "edu". The resent Trump quotes on his opposition to the Iraq war......." In 2004" which the moderator seemed to miss that the war was already active then. It is almost as if the moderators are afraid to call him out. This is poor journalism in my opinion, since many use these debates to choose. Where is the U.S. Steve Pakin? Has anyone else noticed this.......


Just wait until the wall goes up between Detroit, MI, and Windsor, ON .......... either to keep Canadians out of the US or Americans out of Canada. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> *In 1968*, even in Canada as I recall you had to be 21 to either vote or buy alcohol.


Was this in every province of Canada? Back in 1968, some states, especially in the US south, allowed for earlier drinking and voting (age 18).


----------



## Rps

Dr G, would that be the wall that we would pay for......might as well we are paying for a bridge.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr G, would that be the wall that we would pay for......might as well we are paying for a bridge.


Well, it could be a two-sided wall .............. Canada would pay for the Canadian side and the US would pay for the US side.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it could be a two-sided wall .............. Canada would pay for the Canadian side and the US would pay for the US side.


Seems fair, but as Windsor is on a peninsula of sort, Canada would probably pay for the left wing and the U.S. the right.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Seems fair, but as Windsor is on a peninsula of sort, Canada would probably pay for the left wing and the U.S. the right.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

*Folks, those of you who hold dual citizenship may be affected by this change to Canadian immigration / passport rules:*

The Canadian Government is Changing its Passport Law. Here's What You Need to Know

Effective September 30, 2016, Canadian citizens will only be permitted to enter the country if travelling on a valid Canadian passport.

Until relatively recently, Canadians were able to travel on some international flights with nothing more than proof of Canadian residency and acceptable photo ID.

However, for the last number of years, Canadian air travellers have been required to carry a valid passport. As there was no stipulation the passport had to be Canadian, it was perfectly acceptable for Canadians holding dual citizenship to use the passport of their other nationality, along with proof of Canadian citizenship (for example, their Canadian citizenship card) to return home.

At the end of this month, however, that will no longer be the case.

(Outpost Magazine)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Folks, those of you who hold dual citizenship may be affected by this change to Canadian immigration / passport rules:*
> 
> The Canadian Government is Changing its Passport Law. Here's What You Need to Know
> 
> Effective September 30, 2016, Canadian citizens will only be permitted to enter the country if travelling on a valid Canadian passport.
> 
> Until relatively recently, Canadians were able to travel on some international flights with nothing more than proof of Canadian residency and acceptable photo ID.
> 
> However, for the last number of years, Canadian air travellers have been required to carry a valid passport. As there was no stipulation the passport had to be Canadian, it was perfectly acceptable for Canadians holding dual citizenship to use the passport of their other nationality, along with proof of Canadian citizenship (for example, their Canadian citizenship card) to return home.
> 
> At the end of this month, however, that will no longer be the case.
> 
> (Outpost Magazine)


This is why I always travel with both of my US and Canadian passports.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> This is why I always travel with both of my US and Canadian passports.


Marc, I had a friend of mine who had passports issued to him by: Canada, USA, France, Cameroon. When travelled anywhere he always took them all as each country had its own agreement, so travelling from Canada to Cameroon he couldn't use his Canadian passport but could USA or France. He would just toss them all on the customs table and have them pick one.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Marc, I had a friend of mine who had passports issued to him by: Canada, USA, France, Cameroon. When travelled anywhere he always took them all as each country had its own agreement, so travelling from Canada to Cameroon he couldn't use his Canadian passport but could USA or France. He would just toss them all on the customs table and have them pick one.


Americans are required to use their US passports when entering the US. I then show both US and Canadian passports when reentering Canada to show that I got into the US legally and now want to reenter Canada legally.


----------



## Dr.G.

Here is a billboard that was put up along a freeway in LA.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## CubaMark

*
This isn't good for Clinton -more ammo for the Trump campaign's angle of her being medically unfit for the Presidency:*

*Clinton falls ill during 9/11 memorial service in New York*

Hillary Clinton fell ill during a New York memorial service marking the 15th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, and video of her unexpectedly early departure showed her buckling and stumbling as she got into her van.

The video, circulated on Twitter, appeared to show Clinton leaving the commemoration at Ground Zero. Flanked by several Secret Service agents who are regulars on her detail, Clinton can be seen leaning against a security bollard while agents prepare to help her into a black van. As she steps forward, Clinton can be seen falling as agents help lift her into the van.

A campaign spokesman confirmed that Clinton had suffered from overheating and left the ceremony early.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




​
(Washington Post)

*UPDATE:* _Awhile later, Clinton left her daughter's NYC apartment, waved to the crowd, embraced a small child, answered a reporter's question about how she was feeling, and seemed fine._ (Video)


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *
> 
> This isn't good for Clinton -more ammo for the Trump campaign's angle of her being medically unfit for the Presidency:*
> 
> 
> 
> *Clinton falls ill during 9/11 memorial service in New York*
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton fell ill during a New York memorial service marking the 15th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, and video of her unexpectedly early departure showed her buckling and stumbling as she got into her van.
> 
> 
> 
> The video, circulated on Twitter, appeared to show Clinton leaving the commemoration at Ground Zero. Flanked by several Secret Service agents who are regulars on her detail, Clinton can be seen leaning against a security bollard while agents prepare to help her into a black van. As she steps forward, Clinton can be seen falling as agents help lift her into the van.
> 
> 
> 
> A campaign spokesman confirmed that Clinton had suffered from overheating and left the ceremony early.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> (Washington Post)
> 
> 
> 
> *UPDATE:* _Awhile later, Clinton left her daughter's NYC apartment, waved to the crowd, embraced a small child, answered a reporter's question about how she was feeling, and seemed fine._ (Video)



It would be sad to think that an overweight 70 year old imbecile like Trump could be the healthier candidate. Mental health should count for something, and narcissism is an actual DSM-V classification. 


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## Macfury

The poor old dear is not well. She belongs in a hospital, not the White House.


----------



## fjnmusic

Hmmm.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*Mainstream Media Sensationalizes Incident, Embraces Clinton Health Conspiracy*

There’s no evidence that Clinton actually fainted, as some news outlets are alleging. A video posted to Twitter, however, does show Clinton stumbling and being helped into her van. Even so, there’s no credible medical evidence that this is a serious medical issue — President George W. Bush, after all, once fainted after choking on a pretzel, while his father fainted at state dinner in Japan. At the time, Bush’s doctor said “The President is human; he gets sick.”

Pivoting off of conspiracy theories that have been playing out in the media for weeks now, however, news networks immediately seized upon Clinton’s departure and began speculating about larger questions about her health.

Fox News picked it up immediately, quoting an unnamed source to allege that Clinton had a “medical episode.” The New York Post, quoting Fox News, reported the same. NBC News interrupted their normal coverage to issue a “Special report” on the incident.​
(ThinkProgress)


----------



## Macfury

The media is simply reporting Hillary's many symptoms. If you get heatstroke when the temperature hasn't even hit 80, you're not well.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The poor old dear is not well. She belongs in a hospital, not the White House.



So does Donald, poor thing, having to contend with that tribble growing on his head. Bernie Sanders was probably the healthiest of the three of them, ironically enough.


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----------



## Macfury

Bernie was a full-scale lunatic.

Joking about someone's hair as compared to the serious symptoms Hillary is displaying shows how serious this issue is for the Dems.



fjnmusic said:


> So does Donald, poor thing, having to contend with that tribble growing on his head. Bernie Sanders was probably the healthiest of the three of them, ironically enough.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The media is simply reporting Hillary's many symptoms. If you get heatstroke when the temperature hasn't even hit 80, you're not well.


Long overdue, the media reporting on the myriad of medical issues Bill's Wife has recently displayed...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Long overdue, the media reporting on the myriad of medical issues Bill's Wife has recently displayed...


While not falling to the sensationalism of Fox "News", I think there are legitimate concerns regarding Clinton's health.

Mind you, equal weight should be given to the psychological health of Trump... 

This election, perhaps more than any other, should include a good deal of scrutiny of the VP pics (right-winger / evangelist / anti-gay-cake defender / Koch brothers-tied Mike Pence vs Spanish-speaking, civil rights lawyer / former mayor / governor / currently Senator Tim Kaine), since one of 'em may well end up in the big chair....


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> While not falling to the sensationalism of Fox "News", I think there are legitimate concerns regarding Clinton's health.
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, equal weight should be given to the psychological health of Trump...
> 
> 
> 
> This election, perhaps more than any other, should include a good deal of scrutiny of the VP pics (right-winger / evangelist / anti-gay-cake defender / Koch brothers-tied Mike Pence vs Spanish-speaking, civil rights lawyer / former mayor / governor / currently Senator Tim Kaine), since one of 'em may well end up in the big chair....



Good point. The team one surrounds himself or herself as POTUS is very important. I don't think the Trump kids quite cut it as advisors, even if it keeps them off the streets. Apart from them, it certainly doesn't seem like Trump actually has any advisers, which is probably why he keeps putting his foot in his mouth. This shoot from the lip mentality is okay if your desire is to be star of the tabloids, but not acceptable if you are leader of the free world.


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----------



## fjnmusic

Pneumonia.










https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...-diagnosis-after-stumble-at-911-memorial.html


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## fjnmusic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

fjnmusic said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Deplorable? 69-year-old woman punched in face by Trump supporter outside NC rally | WLOS

"I said, 'You better learn to speak Russian,' and I said, 'The first two words are going to be ha ha.' He stopped in his tracks, and he turned around and just cold-cocked me," Teter said.

She was punched in the face.

She says she fell on her oxygen tank and has sore ribs, a sore jaw, and cut her elbow. She later went to the hospital and is thankful she did not break any bones.

Police said they didn't make an arrest because officers didn't witness the punch.​


----------



## Macfury

Pneumonia? I guess they sent Hillary to the Chelsea Hospital.

That climate change meme is nonsense--since there is no equivalency for being "hundreds of feet up in the air." More appropriately it would be "progressives" screaming and jumping off the craft while the boat is sailing into port.


----------



## FeXL

If the story is accurate as portrayed then, yes, deplorable.

Just wondering, CM...

There are dozens of stories of physical violence against Trump supporters by all manner of people: supporters of Bill's Wife, Sander's supporters, anybody but Trumpers, etc.

How come you don't link to those?



CubaMark said:


> Deplorable? 69-year-old woman punched in face by Trump supporter outside NC rally


----------



## FeXL

Wouldn't want to offend any of the terrorists...

Obama to Veto Bill Allowing Lawsuits Against Saudis for 9/11



> Even though both the Senate and the House passed a long-awaited bill that would allow families and survivors of the 9/11 terrorist attacks to sue the government of Saudi Arabia for damages, the bill will most likely not become law anytime soon.
> 
> The bill passed the Senate the bill unanimously in May, while the House passed the bill by a unanimous voice votes last Friday. The bill will now be sent to the president to approve or veto.
> 
> Speaking Monday at a daily briefing for the press, White House Spokesperson Josh Earnest told reporters that he anticipates that U.S. President Barack Obama will veto the bill.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Need more proof that Obamacare is swirling down the drain? Check out what’s about to happen in Nebraska



> ...*premium increases of 35 percent to as high as 50 percent* are expected next year.
> 
> In the face of more health insurance providers dropping out of federal exchanges and younger people opting to pay the fine rather than purchase health insurance because its cheaper, premiums continue to climb — never mind President Obama’s promise that American families would see a $2,500 reduction in their health care costs .


Links' bold.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> If the story is accurate as portrayed then, yes, deplorable.
> 
> Just wondering, CM...
> 
> There are dozens of stories of physical violence against Trump supporters by all manner of people: supporters of Bill's Wife, Sander's supporters, anybody but Trumpers, etc.
> 
> How come you don't link to those?


Because they're not featured on the _progressive_ "Crooks and Liars" web site.


----------



## Dr.G.

How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic

I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me - Vox


While not exactly a political issue, and, sadly, this is also happening in certain universities and colleges in Canada, I find this disturbing. 

"Trigger warnings are alerts that professors are expected to issue if something in a course might cause a strong emotional response"

Imaging all the "trigger warnings" we would have to issue in this, and some other threads, if there was this regulation in place?????????????? Personally, I would rather have a civil and reasonable "give and take" with Macfury, Sinc, et al, than to have to worry about what I say or what they say.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed, Dr. G. Don't forget the crime of "micro-aggressions" which involves every unwanted emotion you might unknowingly inspire in others.



Dr.G. said:


> How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic
> 
> I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me - Vox
> 
> 
> While not exactly a political issue, and, sadly, this is also happening in certain universities and colleges in Canada, I find this disturbing.
> 
> "Trigger warnings are alerts that professors are expected to issue if something in a course might cause a strong emotional response"
> 
> Imaging all the "trigger warnings" we would have to issue in this, and some other threads, if there was this regulation in place?????????????? Personally, I would rather have a civil and reasonable "give and take" with Macfury, Sinc, et al, than to have to worry about what I say or what they say.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed, Dr. G. Don't forget the crime of "micro-aggressions" which involves every unwanted emotion you might unknowingly inspire in others.




Me ........... a "micro-aggressor"???????????? Oh the humanity!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Bayer-Monsanto deal the latest merger to sweep beleaguered agri-foods sector - The Globe and Mail

Wow!!! This quite the take over.


----------



## SINC

Fueled by Republicans, Americans' trust in media hits all-time low - Sep. 14, 2016


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Fueled by Republicans, Americans' trust in media hits all-time low - Sep. 14, 2016


 Where are the likes of Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Eric Severide, et al now that they need them in America?


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Fueled by Republicans, Americans' trust in media hits all-time low - Sep. 14, 2016


After CBC edited a word from Bill Clinton's recent interview to help Hillary's chances, it's no wonder:

CBS News Edits Out Embarrassing Verbal Slip in Bill Clinton Interview (UPDATED) | Mediaite



> Asked if there was any chance her faintness on Sunday could be a sign of some more “serious” illness, Clinton said he did not believe that was the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Well if it is, it’s a mystery to me and all of her doctors,” he said, “*because frequently—well not frequently, rarely—*but on more than one occasion, over the last many, many years, the same sort of thing happened to her when she got severely dehydrated.”
> 
> 
> 
> The bolded section is of course a pretty embarrassing slip-up: Clinton was about to say that Hillary “frequently” faints or collapses, before correcting himself to say it rarely happened. But when the segment aired Monday night, the bolded section was edited out, cutting to a reverse shot of Rose nodding to cover up the jump:
Click to expand...


----------



## FeXL

B, b, b, but...the left told me this would never happen!

Confirmed: Two GITMO Prisoners Released by Obama Reunite with Islamic Terror Groups



> Washington also confirmed that *a total of nine people freed from Guantanamo have rejoined militant groups* since President Barack Obama took office in 2009, according to Reuters.


M'bold.

Ya feed 'em, ya house 'em, ya let 'em go. Then they attack you again. Ingrates...


----------



## FeXL

How Hispanics, Blacks Have Fared in Obama Economy



> A Census Bureau report this week found wages have climbed back to pre-recession levels in 2015, including for blacks and Hispanics. However, throughout Obama’s two terms, *the highest unemployment rates continue to be among African-Americans and Hispanics*, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> The president’s policies haven’t helped either group, said Horace Cooper, co-chairman of Project 21, a black conservative group.
> 
> *“The black community has suffered tremendously under the president’s policies,”* Cooper told The Daily Signal in a phone interview.


M'bold.

But he gave us free stuff!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Emotional Obama Tearfully Thanks Trump for Granting Him Citizenship - The New Yorker

A grateful Pres. Obama says thanks to The Donald.


----------



## Macfury

This was brilliant on Trump's part--he delivered a 30 minute commercials prior to delivering a perfunctory message about Bam!



Dr.G. said:


> Emotional Obama Tearfully Thanks Trump for Granting Him Citizenship - The New Yorker
> 
> A grateful Pres. Obama says thanks to The Donald.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This was brilliant on Trump's part--he delivered a 30 minute commercials prior to delivering a perfunctory message about Bam!


Yes, and it did not cost him a cent. Of course, he is getting heat re his tax returns, but has told the American voter to "suck it up" and accept him at face value since he won't reveal anything until after the election. Then, he can tell the American voter "screw you, suckers ........... you're stuck with me ........... and Putin." We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

When A Clinton Does It, That Means That It's Not Illegal



> Here is the guy who wiped Hillary's server asking about how to do it on Reddit. Yes. Seriously. He also asks how to replace real emails with fake ones.
> 
> *His post happens right about the same time congress was requesting Clinton's emails.* He specifically said it was for a big name client who everybody would recognize.
> 
> A Reddit post has been found from Paul Combetta (the IT guy who got FBI immunity and deleted Hillary's emails) proving they were covering up for Hillary.


M'bold.

Related:

"No Evidence of Criminal Intent." -- Totally Not Corrupt FBI Director James Comey



> What it sounds like was that he was trying to change the email address of who sent the emails so that he could say "We have no emails from Hillary Clinton or Jake Sullivan, etc., responsive to your request."
> 
> Then that didn't work, so break out the BleachBit.


Wonder if the FBI can revoke immunity...


----------



## Macfury

I was waiting for Dr. G. or fjn to post that--you beat them to it FeXL!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I was waiting for Dr. G. or fjn to post that--you beat them to it FeXL!


 I am not George Washington, mon ami. He was ""First in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen." Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

The World According to Trump ................


----------



## CubaMark

:lmao: :clap:


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Bayer-Monsanto deal the latest merger to sweep beleaguered agri-foods sector - The Globe and Mail
> 
> Wow!!! This quite the take over.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


All too true, Mark.   tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Seven ways President Trump would be worse than you think for Canada - The Globe and Mail

Not good news for us here in Canada.


----------



## Macfury

Great news for me here in Canada!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Great news for me here in Canada!


Well, bad news for most, mon ami. Hope you have your own air supply in the GTA once the smog hits. XX)


----------



## Macfury

If there has been any improvement in air quality in Toronto it's unnoticeable to me. Obama and his weird pseudo-environmental agenda can go straight to hell!


----------



## chasMac

Too bad that should Trump be elected, and his transformation into politician be complete, the likelihood of any of these "nightmare" scenarios coming to pass will diminish appreciably.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> Too bad that should Trump be elected, and his transformation into politician be complete, the likelihood of any of these "nightmare" scenarios coming to pass will diminish appreciably.


Yep. This Trump-as-boogeyman talk is embarrassing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, bad news for most, mon ami. Hope you have your own air supply in the GTA once the smog hits. XX)



Those who think life will be better under Trump should really go back and watch Back to the Future II again. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yep. This Trump-as-boogeyman talk is embarrassing.


Not as scary as the possibility of Trump becoming president. Now, that would be both embarrassing AND scary. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Those who think life will be better under Trump should really no back and watch Back to the Future II again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Just imagine what he will do to the outside of the White House?


----------



## Dr.G.

George HW Bush will vote for Hillary Clinton, sources say - CNNPolitics.com

Wonder how his two sons will be voting????


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> George HW Bush will vote for Hillary Clinton, sources say - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Wonder how his two sons will be voting????


Pretty good indicator that the elite puppet masters own her soul.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Those who think life will be better under Trump should really go back and watch Back to the Future II again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


New Netflix show should Trump win ............ "The Trump House of Cards".


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> New Netflix show should Trump win ............ "The Trump House of Cards".






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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He would also rename the Republican Party to the Trumpublican Party.


----------



## Dr.G.

Uncle Val writes home about Trump - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

How appropriate...

Barack Obama is officially now a parasite



> It’s no Nobel Peace Prize, but Barack Obama has a new honor to brag about. Scientists have named a parasite after him — and there’s no worming out of it.


When Gary Larson had a parasite named after him, it was a tribute to all the awareness he had done for the animal kingdom.

Now that President 4-Putt has one, too, it's a tribute to all the hard work he's done, as well...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk about the Clinton Foundation!

"Clinton Foundation Is Charity Fraud Of Epic Proportions", Analyst Charges In Stunning Takedown



> His stunning summary: "An educated guess, based upon ongoing analysis of the public record begun in February 2015, *is that the Clinton Foundation entities are part of a network that has defrauded donors and created illegal private gains of approximately $100 billion in combined magnitude, and possibly more, since 23 October 1997*."


Link's bold.

Related:

Just 5.7 Percent Of Clinton Foundation Budget Actually Went To Charitable Grants



> Just 5.7 percent of the Clinton Foundation’s massive 2014 budget actually went to charitable grants, according to the tax-exempt organization’s IRS filings. The rest went to salaries and employee benefits, fundraising and “other expenses.”


More:

EXCLUSIVE: Clinton Foundation AIDS Program Distributed ‘Watered-Down’ Drugs To Third World Countries



> Former President Bill Clinton and his Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI) distributed “watered-down” HIV/AIDs drugs to patients in sub-Saharan Africa, and “likely increased” the risks of morbidity and mortality, according to a draft congressional report obtained by The Daily Caller News Foundation.


Bills' Wife, 2016!


----------



## FeXL

Even more on Bill's Wife's deceit!

Exclusive: Hillary Clinton Campaign Systematically Overcharging Poorest Donors



> Hillary Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by purposefully and repeatedly overcharging them after they make what’s supposed to be a one-time small donation through her official campaign website, multiple sources tell the Observer.
> 
> ...
> 
> “We get up to a hundred calls a day from Hillary’s low-income supporters complaining about multiple unauthorized charges,” a source, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of job security, from the Wells Fargo fraud department told the Observer. The source claims that the Clinton campaign has been pulling this stunt since Spring of this year. The Hillary for America campaign will overcharge small donors by repeatedly charging small amounts such as $20 to the bankcards of donors who made a one-time donation. However, the Clinton campaign strategically doesn’t overcharge these donors $100 or more because the bank would then be obligated to investigate the fraud.


Classy. 

But, Trump said some mean things!!! :yikes:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao: Sad, but all too true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Clinton ignores Trump, delivers speech on helping disabled - CNNPolitics.com

A wise decision on the part of Clinton. Also, a good speech of importance to many.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fear is an interesting concept. Back in 1944, 18 year old young men stormed the beaches of Normandy ............... today, some18 year old students need a "safe place" in school and "trigger warnings" to avoid controversial issues.

Today, we DO have to fear a Trump presidency. There are no safe zones if he becomes president.


----------



## Macfury

*You* may have to fear a Trump presidency, Dr. G. Obama has made the world a far worse place for me in 8 years. Trump will make a better world for me. Give and take.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> *You* may have to fear a Trump presidency, Dr. G. Obama has made the world a far worse place for me in 8 years. Trump will make a better world for me. Give and take.


Fair game .......... a "better world" for you, a worse world for the rest of us. We shall see if the words of Spock are true when he said that, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.” Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Fair game .......... a "better world" for you, a worse world for the rest of us. We shall see if the words of Spock are true when he said that, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.” Paix, mon ami.


The needs of many have been ignored by Obama. He is meeting his own needs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The needs of many have been ignored by Obama. He is meeting his own needs.



Please explain how Obamacare ignores the needs of the many. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Hey, fjn.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain how Obamacare ignores the needs of the many.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

FJN, is that you?

Please explain how Obamacare addresses the needs of the many.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain how Obamacare ignores the needs of the many.


----------



## FeXL

The intellectually superior left...

Man on the Street-- Asking if It's Okay That the Trump Kids Hunted a Triceratops



> Before you watch this video, keep in mind that the triceratops has been extinct for millions of years... Mark Dice, who does a lot of man-on-the-street interviews, went around asking people if they thought it was okay that the Trump children hunted and killed a triceratops. This photo was from the set of Jurassic Park, and it's obviously a fake dinosaur. Maybe we need to have a better education system!


Nope. Just fewer liberals...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FJN, is that you?
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how Obamacare addresses the needs of the many.




Please explain how it doesn't.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey, fjn.



Hey, MF. That didn't take long. 


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## Macfury

Welcome back, Freddie!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Welcome back, Freddie!



Ha ha! Thanks. I wasn't able to sign in with my old hands for some reason. Maybe it's a delayed reaction from that whole password fiasco.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The needs of many have been ignored by Obama. He is meeting his own needs.


Well, you are free to stress your own needs over the collective needs of the rest of us. That is your right. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain how Obamacare ignores the needs of the many.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Millions who were without any health care protection now have that protection.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Welcome back, Freddie!


:clap::clap::clap:

Welcome back, Frank.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VlGyMG0ksg[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump would beat Clinton by trillions when it comes to driving up debt - Sep. 22, 2016

Good thing that Mexico would pay for the wall, since that is going to be expensive.


----------



## FeXL

And around and around and around we go...

You made a statement. If it's merely an opinion, fine. Then your opinion is just like everybody else's & worth about the same. If it's factual, then it requires substantiation.

Which is it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain how it doesn't.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...474490219782&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.f021d8a8d49b

I wondered why he was always so supportive of Trump even after being fired. Now we know. At $20,000 per month you do NOT bite the hand that feeds you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> And around and around and around we go...
> 
> 
> 
> You made a statement. If it's merely an opinion, fine. Then your opinion is just like everybody else's & worth about the same. If it's factual, then it requires substantiation.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is it?



Well, I DID ask the question first. Once I receive an answer, I'll be happy to supply one of my own. Cheers! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> And around and around and around we go...
> 
> You made a statement. If it's merely an opinion, fine. Then your opinion is just like everybody else's & worth about the same. If it's factual, then it requires substantiation.
> 
> Which is it?


Good point, FeXL ................... tell this to Donald Trump.

Trump says debate moderators shouldn't fact-check | PBS NewsHour


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Good point, FeXL ................... tell this to Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump says debate moderators shouldn't fact-check | PBS NewsHour



Oui, Monsieur. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oui, Monsieur.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would like to see a real debate, not just segments of prepared talking points.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I would like to see a real debate, not just segments of prepared talking points.



Yes. And keep those annoying fact checkers away from the Donald. Gloves off!! You know, like real debaters!

(wait a minute....that word, "debate"...what does it mean again?) 


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----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain how Obamacare ignores the needs of the many.


By lying to the public that they could keep their old health plans and the doctors they liked. By introducing a system involving rate hikes of historic proportion. By forcing people to buy coverage they don't need. By increasing the overall cost of health care in the US.

Obamacare's approach to health care applied to hunger: make it against the law for people not to buy food for themselves and fine them if they don't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> By lying to the public that they could keep their old health plans and the doctors they liked. By introducing a system involving rate hikes of historic proportion. By forcing people to buy coverage they don't need. By increasing the overall cost of health care in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare's approach to health care applied to hunger: make it against the law for people not to buy food for themselves and fine them if they don't.



I can understand these points. At the same time, under Obamacare, affordable health care is now available to millions that didn't have any coverage before, so I suppose it's a trade off. Like most things socialist in nature, the very rich end up subsidizing the very poor. In Canada, we've had a half century to used to it, so it has simply become the norm. In the US, that's still a pretty fresh wound for those who feel they're losing something and perhaps don't want everyone to have access to health care, so it will take a lot of getting used to, if t's even possible. It's like asking Murikans to give up their guns. That just ain't gonna happen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes. And keep those annoying fact checkers away from the Donald. Gloves off!! You know, like real debaters!
> 
> (wait a minute....that word, "debate"...what does it mean again?)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It should be interesting to see how he reacts when the moderator or Clinton calls him on one of his "pseudo-truths". We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you understand the full range of the failure. That tiny goal of covering more people could have been made possible by expanding Medicare. 

It is not a trade-off. It is mass disruption for very little gain. The rich don't need insurance. The middle class is getting screwed so that they are paying far more for less. Being forced to buy $12,000 per year of insurance with a $12,000 deductible is far worse than what existed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I can understand these points. At the same time, under Obamacare, affordable health care is now available to millions that didn't have any coverage before, so I suppose it's a trade off. Like most things socialist in nature, the very rich end up subsidizing the very poor. In Canada, we've had a half century to used to it, so it has simply become the norm. In the US, that's still a pretty fresh wound for those who feel they're losing something and perhaps don't want everyone to have access to health care, so it will take a lot of getting used to, if t's even possible. It's like asking Murikans to give up their guns. That just ain't gonna happen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It should be interesting to see how he reacts when the moderator or Clinton calls him on one of his "pseudo-truths". We shall see.


He will only need to point to Hillary's actual full-out lies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He will only need to point to Hillary's actual full-out lies.


We shall see. I would love to see a real debate between the two, as long as they show respect for each other and not just yell at each other so that no one can understand what either one is saying. That would be interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

I think that if the moderator focuses upon asking each one to stick to specific things that they would do re policy (e.g., "the nitty gritty"), then we will see the Hofstra Cage Match. The "Thrilla in Manila"??? We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I would hope the moderator will focus attention on Clinton's failed, retread policy ideas. That will throw gasoline on the fire of her failure as Secretary of State.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would hope the moderator will focus attention on Clinton's failed, retread policy ideas. That will throw gasoline on the fire of her failure as Secretary of State.


Fair is fair. He should nail both of them of where they stand of the issues. No sound bites ............... real question and real answers. We shall see.


----------



## HowEver

Secretaries of State can't solve all of the world's problems. Yet her successes vastly outnumbered the things she couldn't change in other countries.




Macfury said:


> I would hope the moderator will focus attention on Clinton's failed, retread policy ideas. That will throw gasoline on the fire of her failure as Secretary of State.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see. I would love to see a real debate between the two, as long as they show respect for each other and not just yell at each other so that no one can understand what either one is saying. That would be interesting.




Well, half of the two of them are capable of that. Watch the GOP debates again if you want to see a preview. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would hope the moderator will focus attention on Clinton's failed, retread policy ideas. That will throw gasoline on the fire of her failure as Secretary of State.



I notice you only criticize Clinton in your comments. Have you no criticisms for Trump? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

HowEver said:


> Secretaries of State can't solve all of the world's problems. Yet her successes vastly outnumbered the things she couldn't change in other countries.



This is a fair observation. She has certainly accomplished far more as a public servant than Mr. Trump has. Infinitely more, in fact, since he has no experience as a public servant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

HowEver said:


> Secretaries of State can't solve all of the world's problems. Yet her successes vastly outnumbered the things she couldn't change in other countries.


Very good point, HowEver. She has far more experience to guide America than Trump. Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

HowEver said:


> Secretaries of State can't solve all of the world's problems. Yet her successes vastly outnumbered the things she couldn't change in other countries.


I'll bite. What are the successes?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> This is a fair observation. She has certainly accomplished far more as a public servant than Mr. Trump has. Infinitely more, in fact, since he has no experience as a public servant.


Again, what are he accomplishments? I see her serving only herself.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I notice you only criticize Clinton in your comments. Have you no criticisms for Trump?


When in Rome. Clinton is receiving few criticisms here from her supporters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Again, what are he accomplishments? I see her serving only herself.



The same could easily be said of Mr. Trump, since he has only ever served himself. He has no public service experience, despite the "sacrifices" he made when others went to war.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> When in Rome. Clinton is receiving few criticisms here from her supporters.



Well, this IS the American political thread, and last I checked Trump was an American. So I repeat: do you not have any criticisms of Trump? What has he accomplished as a politician? 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The same could easily be said of Mr. Trump, since he has only ever served himself. He has no public service experience, despite the "sacrifices" he made when others went to war.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. Still, he was never captured and made a POW, so at least he can respect himself.


----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, he is untainted by politics. US founding fathers never believed that the government should be run by professional politicians. Hillary Clinton bears that out by displaying the worst side of those excesses.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, this IS the American political thread, and last I checked Trump was an American. So I repeat: do you not have any criticisms of Trump? What has he accomplished as a politician?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Warns That Clinton Will Rig Debate by Using Facts - The New Yorker

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...pporters-are-watching/?utm_term=.59f58225f6a1

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True. Still, he was never captured and made a POW, so at least he can respect himself.



That's true. One must have more respect for the ones who were never captured, and Mr. Trump was certainly never captured.


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's true. One must have more respect for the ones who were never captured, and Mr. Trump was certainly never captured.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True ............ but he did have a bone spur in his foot. Kept him out of combat, but not playing football.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Thankfully, he is untainted by politics. US founding fathers never believed that the government should be run by professional politicians. Hillary Clinton bears that out by displaying the worst side of those excesses.



So then you believe his complete ignorance on matters of government, notably the US Constitution, actually makes him more qualified to lead the government?


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> So then you believe his complete ignorance on matters of government, notably the US Constitution, actually makes him more qualified to lead the government?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Clinton should ask him about Article XII in the Constitution ..............


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True ............ but he did have a bone spur in his foot. Kept him out of combat, but not playing football.



We must also give thanks and praise for the the way that bone spur has not bothered him since, what with the great bill of health and all given to him by his doctor. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> We must also give thanks and praise for the the way that bone spur has not bothered him since, what with the great bill of health and all given to him by his doctor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> So then you believe his complete ignorance on matters of government, notably the US Constitution, actually makes him more qualified to lead the government?


Your premise is not accurate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> So then you believe his complete ignorance on matters of government, notably the US Constitution, actually makes him more qualified to lead the government?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> Your premise is not accurate.


The premise may or may not be accurate, but it is a true account of The Donald.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The premise may or may not be accurate, but it is a true account of The Donald.


It is not true.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is not true.


It is true.


----------



## Macfury

Then we must accept that Obama believes that the US has 57 states.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Then we must accept that Obama believes that the US has 57 states.


Fair enough ............. especially since the US only has 46 states.


----------



## Dr.G.

Major Ohio paper endorses Clinton after years of backing GOP - CNNPolitics.com

Well, at least he just received the endorsement of Lyin' Ted Cruz.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama on Trump: 'Even most 8-year-olds' know slavery was a bad time for black people - CNNPolitics.com :clap: :clap: :clap:

But what do they have to lose???


----------



## Dr.G.

If Trump felt that Cruz was always lying, and now Cruz contends that Trump will make a far better president than Clinton, is he now going to call him Honest Ted Cruz?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Then we must accept that Obama believes that the US has 57 states.




The US has 2 states: at war or not at war. Almost always it's the former.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The US has 2 states: at war or not at war. Almost always it's the former.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An interesting perspective. You should be more specific, however -- active war participation (declared by Congress), undeclared wars, wars on poverty, drugs, crime, etc., and not at war.

As for the states, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia are commonwealths and NOT states in the US.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

^^^^^^^^^^^
Hillary destroyed the reputations of so many women victimized by her husband. What gall!

Compared to Hillary, that is the person I would want to see as president.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting perspective. You should be more specific, however -- active war participation (declared by Congress), undeclared wars, wars on poverty, drugs, crime, etc., and not at war.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the states, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia are commonwealths and NOT states in the US.




Okey doke.



> The warlike attitude of the US had its birth in King Philip's War, which predated the country and set it on its current militaristic path. The United States has been at war almost continually since 1776. In the past 236 years we have been fighting some type of conflict for 214 years or about 90% of the time.
> Jun 25, 2012


http://ivn.us/2012/06/25/endless-wars-united-states-started-king-philips-war/


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## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


A very moving and revealing ad about the real Donald Trump. Thanks for posting it, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A very moving and revealing ad about the real Donald Trump. Thanks for posting it, mi amigo.


And how do you feel about the lives and reputations of women that Hillary Clinton destroyed to abet her sexual predator of a husband?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And how do you feel about the lives and reputations of women that Hillary Clinton destroyed to abet her sexual predator of a husband?




Wait a minute. The women Bill had affairs with were consenting adults, unlike the 13 year old Donald Trump raped. 


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## Freddie_Biff

> The third case against Trump comes via a recent federal lawsuit filed in June 2016 in the State of New York by “Jane Doe.” In the suit, Doe alleges that Trump raped her back in 1994, when she was just 13 years old. According to legal docs, Doe says she attended parties with Trump and his friend Jeffrey Epstein—a registered sex offender known in the media as the “billionaire pedophile.” Doe, who was trying to become a model, says it was during these parties that Trump initiated sexual contact with her on several occasions and on one occasion allegedly raped her.
> 
> According to the suit, Trump tied her to a bed, exposed himself to her and then raped her in a “savage sexual attack.” Doe says she screamed for him to stop at which point he struck her in the face while screaming “that he would do whatever he wanted.” In a statement filed with the lawsuit, Doe says Trump threatened to ruin her life and her family’s life if she ever told anyone about the incident:
> 
> Immediately following this rape Defendant Trump threatened me that, were I ever to reveal any of the details of Defendant Trump’s sexual and physical abuse of me, my family and I would be physically harmed if not killed.
> 
> The lawsuit also includes a witness statement from a “Tiffany Doe,” who says that, in the ’90s, she was in charge of recruiting adolescent women to entertain guests at Epstein’s parties—and she personally saw the incident occur.
> 
> I personally witnessed the Plaintiff being forced to perform various sexual acts with Donald J. Trump and Mr. Epstein. Both Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein were advised that she was 13 years old.
> 
> In her statement, Tiffany Doe also says she witnessed Trump force other minors to perform oral sex on him and witnessed his “physical abuse” on them “when they finished the act.”
> 
> According to documents, Trump has denied the allegations, stating “These allegations are not only categorically false, but disgusting at the highest level and clearly framed to solicit media attention or, perhaps, are simply politically motivated. There is absolutely no merit to these allegations. Period.”


https://www.google.ca/amp/fusion.ne...ccused-rape-sexual-assault/amp/?client=safari


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## Macfury

That's not what the women Bill Clinton attacked and raped said.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wait a minute. The women Bill had affairs with were consenting adults, unlike the 13 year old Donald Trump raped.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://www.google.ca/amp/fusion.ne...ccused-rape-sexual-assault/amp/?client=safari
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then she must have seen Bill Clinton's escapades on Epstein's "Lolita Island" during his many trips to the pedophile paradise.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Then she must have seen Bill Clinton's escapades on Epstein's "Lolita Island" during his many trips to the pedophile paradise.



Okay now you're just making ****e up. Why do you discount any criticism of Trump's negative attributes? Surely you must know they exist. Rape is a pretty serious accusation. Bill Clinton was not accused of rape. And for that matter, neither was Hillary—you know, the one who's ACTUALLY running for President.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's not what the women Bill Clinton attacked and raped said.



Please provide examples.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Okay now you're just making ****e up. Why do you discount any criticism of Trump's negative attributes? Surely you must know they exist. Rape is a pretty serious accusation. Bill Clinton was not accused of rape. And for that matter, neither was Hillary—you know, the one who's ACTUALLY running for President.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


EXCLUSIVE - Juanita Broaddrick Provides Never Before Published Details On Bill Clinton's Rape

The missing Clinton women - Washington Times


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Okay now you're just making ****e up. Why do you discount any criticism of Trump's negative attributes? Surely you must know they exist. Rape is a pretty serious accusation. Bill Clinton was not accused of rape. And for that matter, neither was Hillary—you know, the one who's ACTUALLY running for President.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bill Clinton jumped aboard 'Lolita Express' for junkets along with Jeffrey Epstein | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> EXCLUSIVE - Juanita Broaddrick Provides Never Before Published Details On Bill Clinton's Rape
> 
> 
> 
> The missing Clinton women - Washington Times




And how old was Juanita at the time of he alleged rape? Trump's alleged victim was 13. 


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## Macfury

You're reduced o the alleged age of an alleged victim. A few minutes ago you said Bill Clinton was never accused of rape. Now it's OK because she was the right age?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And how old was Juanita at the time of he alleged rape? Trump's alleged victim was 13.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're reduced o the alleged age of an alleged victim. A few minutes ago you said Bill Clinton was never accused of rape. Now it's OK because she was the right age?



I am not reduced whatsoever. If Bill raped someone, let that be proven in court. Near as I can tell, the claimant is older than he is, if she's 73 now. Trump's alleged victim was 13 at the time, the one we know of anyway. And in event, it is Donald Trump whose character is in question here, since he is running for President, not Bill Clinton. Hillary has no rape allegations against her that I am aware of. Your attempt to bring husband Bill into the conversation is a pretty sad redirect. 


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## Macfury

You want a serial sexual offender back in the Whitehouse? Hillary is well known as an enabler of her husband who worked hard to destroy the reputations of women whom Bill assaulted:

Hillary Clinton haunted by efforts to 'destroy' Bill Clinton accusers - Washington Times



Freddie_Biff said:


> I am not reduced whatsoever. If Bill raped someone, let that be proven in court. Near as I can tell, the claimant is older than he is, if she's 73 now. Trump's alleged victim was 13 at the time, the one we know of anyway. And in event, it is Donald Trump whose character is in question here, since he is running for President, not Bill Clinton. Hillary has no rape allegations against her that I am aware of. Your attempt to bring husband Bill into the conversation is a pretty sad redirect.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You want a serial sexual offender back in the Whitehouse? Hillary is well known as an enabler of her husband who worked hard to destroy the reputations of women whom Bill assaulted:
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton haunted by efforts to 'destroy' Bill Clinton accusers - Washington Times



No you're right. A pedophile would be a much better choice. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No you're right. A pedophile would be a much better choice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bill can't run a third term.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Bill can't run a third term.



Exactly, and he isn't. Hillary is running. Trump is the pedophile. You seem to be in deep denial about his character flaws. 


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## Dr.G.

Trump's jabs, Clinton's upraised palms could reveal who has the upper hand in debates - World - CBC News

An interesting article. Personally, I just listen to what they say rather than watch their body language.


----------



## Macfury

Listen to yourself. A prime example of Trump Derangement Syndrome. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly, and he isn't. Hillary is running. Trump is the pedophile. You seem to be in deep denial about his character flaws.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Listen to yourself. A prime example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.


Yes, TDS is no laughing matter, mon ami. I have heard some of the taunts and jeers from his supporters inside and outside of his rallies. They scare me, since I am not sure that even Donald Trump can stop the spread of hatred that he seems to have unleashed in many of his supporters. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ait_Fs6UQhQ[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Your hearing is selective, Dr. G.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Listen to yourself. A prime example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.



Macfury: no offense, but, what the hell are you talking about? Your train seems to have veered off the tracks a while back and you're acting as though you still make sense. Do you have some plausible explanation for the rape of a 13 year old allegation against Donald Trump, the only Presidential candidate who is actually facing such an allegation going in to the big debate? 


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## Macfury

They're allegations. So what? I also hear allegations that Hillary Clinton is a racist, a liar, a traitor, and enriches herself through government positions "going into the big debate." In actual fact, she has a string of demonstrable, horrible policy failures as secretary of State "going into the big debate."



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury: no offense, but, what the hell are you talking about? Your train seems to have veered off the tracks a while back and you're acting as though you still make sense. Do you have some plausible explanation for the rape of a 13 year old allegation against Donald Trump, the only Presidential candidate who is actually facing such an allegation going in to the big debate?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They're allegations. So what? I also hear allegations that Hillary Clinton is a racist, a liar, a traitor, and enriches herself through government positions "going into the big debate." In actual fact, she has a string of demonstrable, horrible policy failures as secretary of State "going into the big debate."



That may or may or be, but she certainly has not been accused of being a pedophile "going into the big debate." Pretty big difference, and with the multitude of misogynist comments made publicly by Mr. Trump, there certainly seems to be some credibility to the allegation. Do you still believe Bill Cosby is still innocent as well? 


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## Macfury

I don't know if Cosby is innocent. My opinion would be based on almost no solid information.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That may or may or be, but she certainly has not been accused of being a pedophile "going into the big debate." Pretty big difference, and with the multitude of misogynist comments made publicly by Mr. Trump, there certainly seems to be some credibility to the allegation. Do you still believe Bill Cosby is still innocent as well?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't know if Cosby is innocent. My opinion would be based on almost no solid information.


A valid and a reasonable point, Macfury. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Thank me for my military service by voting for Hillary Clinton: Frank Biggio (Opinion) | cleveland.com

:clap::clap::clap:

A fitting tribute. Semper fidelis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Falsely Claims He 'Never' Said McCain Wasn't a Hero | The Weekly Standard

The Donald needs to make up his mind as to what he did or did not say. What next???? I never said I would be a wall ........... I said I would build a mall.


----------



## Dr.G.

From Russia With Trump: A Political Conflict Zone - ABC News

If true, this can't be good news for Trump. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> A valid and a reasonable point, Macfury. Paix, mon ami.



Really? Did you ever read his unsealed testimony from the deposition in one of the cases? I think it was maybe ten years ago. He testifies that he did purchase date rape drugs (tranquilizer, rohypnol?) for the purpose of drugging women so he could have sex with them. This much he has already admitted to in court. I would imagine there is more to the story. Not a lot of room for doubt in my mind anymore, even though I liked Fat Albert as a kid. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump Falsely Claims He 'Never' Said McCain Wasn't a Hero | The Weekly Standard
> 
> 
> 
> The Donald needs to make up his mind as to what he did or did not say. What next???? I never said I would be a wall ........... I said I would build a mall.



He said he prefers war heroes that didn't get captured, because apparently if you're captured you're a loser. 


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## Macfury

No, I didn't read it. Why don't you quote the salient bits here?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Really? Did you ever read his unsealed testimony from the deposition in one of the cases? I think it was maybe ten years ago. He testifies that he did purchase date rape drugs (tranquilizer, rohypnol?) for the purpose of drugging women so he could have sex with them. This much he has already admitted to in court. I would imagine there is more to the story. Not a lot of room for doubt in my mind anymore, even though I liked Fat Albert as a kid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, I didn't read it. Why don't you quote the salient bits here?




I am truly amazed. I thought you kept up in current events.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.vanit...-cosby-deposition-teenagers/amp?client=safari



> Bill Cosby Admits to Sex with Teenagers, Paying Off Alleged Victims in Explosive Deposition Excerpt
> 
> The comedian says an agency used to send him “five or six” models every week.
> 
> HILLARY BUSIS
> MAY 24, 2016 10:08 AM


I'm sure you can figure out how to read the rest of the article yourself. The title alone is fairly salient. Once you're done, maybe try that question I asked again. 

In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the former senator and the pedophile square off tomorrow.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> He said he prefers war heroes that didn't get captured, because apparently if you're captured you're a loser.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. Let's just hope he turns out to be the loser in this election.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Really? Did you ever read his unsealed testimony from the deposition in one of the cases? I think it was maybe ten years ago. He testifies that he did purchase date rape drugs (tranquilizer, rohypnol?) for the purpose of drugging women so he could have sex with them. This much he has already admitted to in court. I would imagine there is more to the story. Not a lot of room for doubt in my mind anymore, even though I liked Fat Albert as a kid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> No, I didn't read it. Why don't you quote the salient bits here?


I have not read this either.


----------



## Macfury

I don't generally follow celebrity stories.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm sure you can figure out how to read the rest of the article yourself. The title alone is fairly salient. Once you're done, maybe try that question I asked again.





> Bill Cosby testified in 2005 that he got Quaaludes with the intent of giving them to young women he wanted to have sex with, and he admitted giving the sedative to at least one woman and “other people,” according to documents obtained Monday by The Associated Press.


The documents were not at the link you supplied. This brief paragraph does not quite square the circle. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the former senator and the pedophile square off tomorrow.


Do you really think exhibiting this sort of flop sweat helps make your case?


----------



## CubaMark

I'm no fan of Hilary. As President, I have little hope that anything significant will change in the USA's non-stop global war against anything and anyone that gets in the way of its imperial interests.

But when it comes to Hilary vs. The Donald, it's no contest. He's a raving lunatic, a high-achieving failure as a businessman, quite clearly a serial misogynist, and those are the best things we can say about him.

So how the hell the American electorate is still, apparently, giving him any indication of support is beyond me....

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump neck and neck in polls ahead of first presidential debate | The Independent


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't generally follow celebrity stories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The documents were not at the link you supplied. This brief paragraph does not quite square the circle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think exhibiting this sort of flop sweat helps make your case?




Boy. Denial ain't just a river in Egyot. Look it up yourself if you're such a doubter. Tag words: Cosby Deposition. 

Or just click on the links, man. They're red, easy to see.











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----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I'm no fan of Hilary. As President, I have little hope that anything significant will change in the USA's non-stop global war against anything and anyone that gets in the way of its imperial interests.
> 
> 
> 
> But when it comes to Hilary vs. The Donald, it's no contest. He's a raving lunatic, a high-achieving failure as a businessman, quite clearly a serial misogynist, and those are the best things we can say about him.
> 
> 
> 
> So how the hell the American electorate is still, apparently, giving him any indication of support is beyond me....
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump neck and neck in polls ahead of first presidential debate | The Independent



You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can all of the people some of the time....but you can also fool too many of the people most of the time. 


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## eMacMan

Sums it up.


----------



## Macfury

You said that you read the depositions. Now you're just quoting news articles. Cosby never admits giving the drugs to a woman in order to have sex with them. He says he considered doing it and purchased the drugs. He then says he gave the drugs to some people. Just show me the part where he says he gave the drugs to a woman AND had sex with the woman while she was unconscious.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy. Denial ain't just a river in Egyot. Look it up yourself if you're such a doubter. Tag words: Cosby Deposition.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm no fan of Hilary. As President, I have little hope that anything significant will change in the USA's non-stop global war against anything and anyone that gets in the way of its imperial interests.


Obama has certainly gotten in the way of Imperialism, largely through timidity, inaction and incompetence.

To answer your question, the electorate sees Clinton cementing in a kleptocracy that will make life permanently unacceptable. Many of Clinton's supporters hope to be on the receiving end. Half of what you are saying about Trump isn't true--however, many see him as their only hope to bust up the kleptocracy. They already know what Hill is going to do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You said that you read the depositions. Now you're just quoting news articles. Cosby never admits giving the drugs to a woman in order to have sex with them. He says he considered doing it and purchased the drugs. He then says he gave the drugs to some people. Just show me the part where he says he gave the drugs to a woman AND had sex with the woman while she was unconscious.




Weak. 


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## Macfury

You said Cosby had admitted precisely that, so if anything was weak, it was your understanding of the material



Freddie_Biff said:


> Weak.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can all of the people some of the time....but you can also fool too many of the people most of the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I'm no fan of Hilary. As President, I have little hope that anything significant will change in the USA's non-stop global war against anything and anyone that gets in the way of its imperial interests.
> 
> But when it comes to Hilary vs. The Donald, it's no contest. He's a raving lunatic, a high-achieving failure as a businessman, quite clearly a serial misogynist, and those are the best things we can say about him.
> 
> So how the hell the American electorate is still, apparently, giving him any indication of support is beyond me....
> 
> Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump neck and neck in polls ahead of first presidential debate | The Independent


AS well, you will be on the other side of the wall, making it even more difficult to get yourself and your family back to Nova Scotia.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> AS well, you will be on the other side of the wall, making it even more difficult to get yourself and your family back to Nova Scotia.


Although it costs a little more, we never fly through US airports. I've done it a couple of times, and it ain't worth the hassle. Plus it removes the need for my wife to apply for a US Visa just to pass through a stupid US airport. That's time, money and inconvenience we're not willing to have to deal with.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Although it costs a little more, we never fly through US airports. I've done it a couple of times, and it ain't worth the hassle. Plus it removes the need for my wife to apply for a US Visa just to pass through a stupid US airport. That's time, money and inconvenience we're not willing to have to deal with.


A wise decision. :clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You said Cosby had admitted precisely that, so if anything was weak, it was your understanding of the material



Nope. You should read more. If Cosby's own admittance the procuring of Qualudes for the purposes of drugging young women he wanted to have sex with isn't enough for you, you're losing your grip on reality, my friend. So, yeah, weak rebuttal. You clearly do not understand what you're speaking about. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You said Cosby had admitted precisely that, so if anything was weak, it was your understanding of the material



Also weak. When confronted with clear evidence that contradicts your belief, you deny its existence without offering an alternative. 


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----------



## Macfury

You failed, Freddie! Your mind is filling in the blanks!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Also weak. When confronted with clear evidence that contradicts your belief, you deny its existence without offering an alternative.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You failed, Freddie! Your mind is filling in the blanks!



Macfury: I have no idea what you're talking about and apparently neither do you. I'm not going to quote you the whole deposition because it's very long. It wouldn't take you long to find it, but if you'd prefer to find solace in blissful ignorance, that's up to you. I started off defending Cosby, but after reading some of what's in the deposition, there is no doubt in my mind anymore that he did what he has been accused of doing. And based on the many misogynistic things Trump has said so far, raping a 13 year old girl would be entirely consistent. 

We shall see how he fares tonight. 


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## Macfury

FJN, that's nuts! Even the most mind-numbed people suffering Trump Derangement Syndrome are stopping well short of rapist/child molester.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> FJN, that's nuts! Even the most mind-numbed people suffering Trump Derangement Syndrome are stopping well short of rapist/child molester.




Well, his accuser and her attorneys certainly aren't.


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## FeXL

People can accuse all they want. Until it is proven in a court of law, all it is is an accusation.

If you continue with this line of attack, I would appreciate it if you used the word "alleged"...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, his accuser and her attorneys certainly aren't.


----------



## FeXL

Beautiful...

FiveThirtyEight: Trump would win if election were held today



> Donald Trump would beat Hillary Clinton if votes for president were cast today, according to the election results predictor designed by top pollster Nate Silver.
> 
> FiveThirtyEight’s “now-cast” model is giving Trump a nearly 10-point edge over Clinton in response to the question, “Who would win the presidency today?”


Say bye-bye to Bill's Wife...


----------



## Macfury

From CNN's Jeff Zeleny:



> ZELENY: So long Ohio. It's been 20 days since Hillary Clinton stepped foot into this classic battleground state, and she's not expected to visit it again in the month of September. That is a nod to the political reality there facing her campaign. She is struggling mightily among white voters, and the campaign has not yet written it off and they will push back and say we're still spending money there, et cetera. But Ohio, the mother of all battleground states, is not in her wheelhouse anymore.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> People can accuse all they want. Until it is proven in a court of law, all it is is an accusation.
> 
> 
> 
> If you continue with this line of attack, I would appreciate it if you used the word "alleged"...



Fortunately for the Donald, the alleged accuser and her alleged attorneys won't be able to nail his alleged ass to the wall until after the election. But when they do, I hope they nail it to that "effing" wall the Mexicans will be paying for. Allegedly.


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## Macfury

Booo-hooooooo......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-as-trump-proves-less-toxic-for-republicans/




> Democrats are now facing a tougher road to capturing the Senate majority as the presidential race tightens and Donald Trump is not proving to be the dramatic drag on down-ballot candidates that Republicans once feared.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk private email servers!!!

First:

The FBI Investigation of EmailGate Was a Sham



> From the moment the EmailGate scandal went public more than a year ago, it was obvious that the Federal Bureau of Investigation never had much enthusiasm for prosecuting Hillary Clinton or her friends. Under President Obama, the FBI grew so politicized that it became impossible for the Bureau to do its job – at least where high-ranking Democrats are concerned.
> 
> As I observed in early July, when Director James Comey announced that the FBI would not be seeking prosecution of anyone on Team Clinton over EmailGate, the Bureau had turned its back on its own traditions of floating above partisan politics in the pursuit of justice. “Malfeasance by the FBI, its bending to political winds, is a matter that should concern all Americans, regardless of their politics,” I stated, noting that it’s never a healthy turn of events in a democracy when your secret police force gets tarnished by politics.
> 
> Just how much Comey and his Bureau punted on EmailGate has become painfully obvious since then. Redacted FBI documents from that investigation, dumped on the Friday afternoon before the long Labor Day weekend, revealed that *Hillary Clinton either willfully lied to the Bureau, repeatedly, about her email habits as secretary of state, or she is far too dumb to be our commander-in-chief.*


M'bold.

Oh, she ain't dumb. Not by a stretch. She is, however, a lying sack of $h1t...

And, what's this? Barry used a pseudonym in email communications with Bill's Wife? Kinda cements the fact that he knew about her illegal server, doesn't it...

Obama’s Email Alias With Clinton Raises Disturbing Questions



> President Obama has provoked even greater concern regarding Hillary Clinton’s far-reaching email scandal with revelations that he used an undisclosed pseudonym in email communications that were routed through her private email server. The email dates back to 2012 during Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state and information relating to it was disclosed by the FBI as the agency released its second batch of documents in connection with its investigation of Clinton’s alleged inappropriate handling of government emails and possible security breaches.


Related:

Obama used a pseudonym in emails with Clinton, FBI documents reveal



> President Barack Obama used a pseudonym in email communications with Hillary Clinton and others, according to FBI records made public Friday.
> 
> The disclosure came as the FBI released its second batch of documents from its investigation into Clinton’s private email server during her tenure as secretary of state.


B-b-b-bu-but...there was no intent!!!!

Top Clinton aide Cheryl Mills granted partial immunity in email investigation



> Top Hillary Clinton aide Cheryl Mills received an immunity deal from the Justice Department in the FBI’s investigation into the former secretary of state’s private email server, records shown to Congress revealed Friday, re-injecting the email controversy into the presidential campaign just days before her first debate with Donald Trump.
> 
> In addition to Mills, Clinton's former chief of staff at State, grants of partial immunity were also extended to former Clinton aide Heather Samuelson, who worked as State's White House liaison and later as a private attorney for Clinton and to John Bentel, who was director of the the Information Resources Management section in the secretary of state's office, lawmakers said.
> 
> *The newly disclosed information brings to five the number of individuals known to have received some form of immunity in connection with the FBI probe*, which ended with the bureau recommending that no charges be brought against Clinton or her aides for mishandling classified information.


M'bold.

Riddle me this, Batman: if there was not malfeasance, a crime, lawlessness, corruption, villainy, etc...why would the FBI grant immunity to anybody?

Jes' askin'...


----------



## FeXL

Uhhh...because, as ill-informed & willfully ignorant many Americans can be about many things, the truth about you is finally starting to get out?

Hillary: ‘Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?’



> I’ll go first: Mrs. Clinton, you had your chance to show what kind of Commander-in-Chief you would be. It was on the evening of September 11th, 2012 when Americans were fighting for their lives to protect your State Department employees who were let down by your apparent indifference or inability to respond to their requests for greater security. *You failed that test miserably and four Americans are now dead because of it. When confronted with that miserable failure, you lied about it and you continue to lie about it.*
> 
> That’s why you’re losing and that’s why you’ll never have my vote.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary doesn't get it. Her Tweet:



> There are five living U.S. presidents. None of them support Donald Trump.


That's why Trump is so popular!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hillary doesn't get it. Her Tweet:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Trump is so popular!


As Mr. Spock would say, "That is illogical."  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

It was 56 years ago tonight that JFK and Nixon had their first presidential debate. I remember it well. We shall see how the Clinton-Trump debate unfolds in less than an hour.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why tonight can clinch the election - CNN.com

An interesting article.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> As Mr. Spock would say, "That is illogical." Paix, mon ami.



Indeed. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Rape and attempted rape trump e-mail any day of the week. 










https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...llegations-jill-harth-interview?client=safari


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## Freddie_Biff

Much as I don't think Trump is anywhere near qualified for the Presidency, he is wiping the floor with Hillary tonight. In my opinion. Should have gone with Bernie. 


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## CubaMark

"I have a much better temperament than she does".

:yikes:

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

OK, the thing about stamina was good. Point Hillary.


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## CubaMark

*Jeebus*. The Donald is the very definition of "blathering".


----------



## FeXL

Ftfy...



cubamark said:


> *jeebus*. Bill's wife is the very definition of "compulsive liar".


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Much as I don't think Trump is anywhere near qualified for the Presidency, he is wiping the floor with Hillary tonight. In my opinion. Should have gone with Bernie.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guessed we watched a different debate. Advantage Clinton. Point. Set. Match. And this from someone who was a Sanders supporter from the onset. She still has my vote.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Guessed we watched a different debate. Advantage Clinton. Point. Set. Match. And this from someone who was a Sanders supporter from the onset. She still has my vote.



The first 20 minutes or so I watched on TV and she definitely did not have the advantage in my opinion. But I listened to the last 20 minutes or so on the radio and she had definitely grown a pair in the interim. So hopefully the public will see through Trump's bravado and appreciate Hillary's wisdom. She definitely had the advantage in the last part of the debate. I'll have to watch the middle on PVR and see if I can figure out when it shifted. 


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## Kami

You'll probably want to watch the entire debate and then let us know what you think. This was a very one sided debate

The split screen view was a great idea


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Kami said:


> You'll probably want to watch the entire debate and then let us know what you think. This was a very one sided debate
> 
> 
> 
> The split screen view was a great idea




I've been watching middle section on PVR. It's the discussion of economics where he really falls apart. Calling himself smart for getting away with not paying taxes just makes him a burden on the middle class. He definitely did not look presidential here. Hillary did. 


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## Macfury

This is only a bad thing if you identify as "the little man"-success only horrifies Dems.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I've been watching middle section on PVR. It's the discussion of economics where he really falls apart. Calling himself smart for getting away with not paying taxes just makes him a burden on the middle class. He definitely did not look presidential here. Hillary did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Kami said:


> You'll probably want to watch the entire debate and then let us know what you think. This was a very one sided debate
> 
> 
> 
> The split screen view was a great idea



And yes, I appreciated the split screen view as well. For some reason Trump just reminds me of that puppet Walter the way he squints and frowns all the time. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Kami said:


> You'll probably want to watch the entire debate and then let us know what you think. This was a very one sided debate
> 
> The split screen view was a great idea


True. Clinton came out way on top. Trump started off well, and then spent an hour rambling on about things that most people had trouble focusing on. Clinton was strong throughout. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The first 20 minutes or so I watched on TV and she definitely did not have the advantage in my opinion. But I listened to the last 20 minutes or so on the radio and she had definitely grown a pair in the interim. So hopefully the public will see through Trump's bravado and appreciate Hillary's wisdom. She definitely had the advantage in the last part of the debate. I'll have to watch the middle on PVR and see if I can figure out when it shifted.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Watch the whole debate from start to finish and you will see the strength of Clinton's message. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I've been watching middle section on PVR. It's the discussion of economics where he really falls apart. Calling himself smart for getting away with not paying taxes just makes him a burden on the middle class. He definitely did not look presidential here. Hillary did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

The first debate featured an unprepared man repeatedly shouting over a highly prepared woman - Vox

Trump as president? No reasonable voter could want that after the debate - The Globe and Mail

Another couple of interesting articles.


----------



## Dr.G.

How Pepe the Frog went from harmless meme to the alt-right's mascot for Donald Trump - Vox

Interesting. I have to admit that I have never heard of Pepe the Frog. Guess I am not up on my memes and alt.right crowds.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> How Pepe the Frog went from harmless meme to the alt-right's mascot for Donald Trump - Vox
> 
> Interesting. I have to admit that I have never heard of Pepe the Frog. Guess I am not up on my memes and alt.right crowds.


The Pepe/racist meme is a hoax perpetrated by a few pranksters to get media to bite--and they did. Couple of guys are laughing their butts off.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Pepe/racist meme is a hoax perpetrated by a few pranksters to get media to bite--and they did. Couple of guys are laughing their butts off.


Well, they got me. Luckily, I only learned about it less than an hour ago. Merci, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Income tax, ISIS facts and 'stamina': Key Clinton-Trump debate moments - World - CBC News

Trump may think that he is "smart" by not paying taxes, but it is NOT smart to boast about it on TV.


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

Trump started well but was easily led down the rabbit hole for the last 2/3. Although I think Hillary's policies would be bad for America, she managed the debate much better than Trump.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Watch the whole debate from start to finish and you will see the strength of Clinton's message. Paix, mon ami.


Actually Dr. G, the debate was a wash. Trump catered to his market, as did Clinton hers. There will be little bounce either way. What was needed for Clinton was to appear warm and cuddily, her problem is the " I'm smart" answers....she couldn't provide a simple answer under 300 words. Not good, it smacks of ego to those who don't like her.
Trump on the other hand tipped his overall weakness, which is "system" knowledge. He doesn't look presidential because he isn't. His market it the lunch bucket crowd, who are increasingly seeing their jobs evaporate......via corporate transfer. Trade is what makes a country successful....check out Britian and Germany after WW2....it took Britian years to recover with protectionist policies, Germany openly traded.

Trump knows who he is speaking to....he doesn't care about the others. What bothers me is the weakness of the moderator....this free for all is not good for the undecided. I wish they had a mod who would tell them to shut up and let the other speak, or more forcefully keep them on topic. Overall this was a waste of time and two weeks after this debate the polls will bare this out.


----------



## CubaMark

Let's look at Trump's appearance last night using his campaigns own obsession with a candidate's perceived health:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Income tax, ISIS facts and 'stamina': Key Clinton-Trump debate moments - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> Trump may think that he is "smart" by not paying taxes, but it is NOT smart to boast about it on TV.



Absolutely. It doesn't make him smart; it makes him a burden on the middle class. Somebody else ends up paying his fair share. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Let's look at Trump's appearance last night using his campaigns own obsession with a candidate's perceived health:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely. It doesn't make him smart; it makes him a burden on the middle class. Somebody else ends up paying his fair share.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


VERY true. tptptptp:greedy:tptptptp


----------



## CubaMark

Interesting how tepid are the responses from the Trump Fanatics in here to last night's debate performance.

But then, the writing is on the wall:

*Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate*


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

CubaMark said:


> Interesting how tepid are the responses from the Trump Fanatics in here to last night's debate performance.
> 
> But then, the writing is on the wall:
> 
> *Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate*


I'm no "Trump Fanatic". Never was. But I'm definitely not a supporter of the Democrats or their policies. My choice for Republican leader would have been Ted Cruz who would have likely owned Hillary in this debate.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Interesting how tepid are the responses from the Trump Fanatics in here to last night's debate performance.
> 
> But then, the writing is on the wall:
> 
> *Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate*


"And Rudy Giuliani, a top Trump surrogate, even suggested that Trump should skip the next two debates unless he gets concessions. “If I were Donald Trump I wouldn’t participate in another debate unless I was promised that the journalist would act like a journalist and not an incorrect, ignorant fact checker,” he said."

I agree. Call for a snap election and forget about the Nov. set date for presidential elections. This way, people like me, who have not yet sent in their absentee ballots will not have a chance to vote for Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Unmasking Continues - NYTimes.com

I like the title of this article.


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

Dr.G. said:


> "And Rudy Giuliani, a top Trump surrogate, even suggested that Trump should skip the next two debates unless he gets concessions. “If I were Donald Trump I wouldn’t participate in another debate unless I was promised that the journalist would act like a journalist and not an incorrect, ignorant fact checker,” he said."
> 
> I agree. Call for a snap election and forget about the Nov. set date for presidential elections. This way, people like me, who have not yet sent in their absentee ballots will not have a chance to vote for Clinton.


Dr. G. Not familiar very with US politics but why would Trump pulling out of the debates mean a snap election? I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion from what Giuliani said?


----------



## eMacMan

So the big conclave of Liars Unanonymous, has adjourned, but the concussive repercussions has been severe.


----------



## Dr.G.

MacGuiver2.0 said:


> Dr. G. Not familiar very with US politics but why would Trump pulling out of the debates mean a snap election? I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion from what Giuliani said?


I was just joking, MacG. The US federal election dates are set in stone ..... the first Tuesday in Nov. every four years. In Canada, things are different. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Some more interesting articles, from a local perspective.

The 'change' candidate can't change his ways in 1st debate - World - CBC News

In debate between Clinton, Trump, moderators will be judged, too - World - CBC News

How Hillary Clinton killed the Trump brand - The Globe and Mail

Five reasons the debate could hurt Trump's momentum - The Globe and Mail


----------



## CubaMark

MacGuiver2.0 said:


> I'm no "Trump Fanatic". Never was. But I'm definitely not a supporter of the Democrats or their policies. My choice for Republican leader would have been Ted Cruz who would have likely owned Hillary in this debate.


In fact, I was just discussing the debate with a colleague. The consensus: if the Republicans had managed to nominate anyone ...*anyone*... with a modicum of respectability, Clinton would be much less likely to prevail. Trump has been a disaster for the Republican Party, and if elected would be a disaster for the USA. 

I am not at all enthralled with the "history" being made with the potential first U.S. Female President, since it ain't nothing special: many countries have had female leaders. If nothing else, it's simply righting an embarrassing wrong that the USA has managed to keep women from attaining that particular office for so long. Clinton's baggage would have been a pair of cement shoes dragging her down into the depths of NY harbour in any other election year.


----------



## Dr.G.

“If it is not right, do not do it; if it is not true, do not say it.”
- Marcus Aurelius


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump Blames ‘Defective Mic' For Debate Performance

Well, now this makes sense. How could The Donald implode so badly in the debate? It is not his beliefs or his words ............ it was his mic.


----------



## Dr.G.

If it were not for his defective mic, I wonder what he actually said re paying no taxes?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Actually Dr. G, the debate was a wash. Trump catered to his market, as did Clinton hers. There will be little bounce either way. What was needed for Clinton was to appear warm and cuddily, her problem is the " I'm smart" answers....she couldn't provide a simple answer under 300 words. Not good, it smacks of ego to those who don't like her.
> 
> Trump on the other hand tipped his overall weakness, which is "system" knowledge. He doesn't look presidential because he isn't. His market it the lunch bucket crowd, who are increasingly seeing their jobs evaporate......via corporate transfer. Trade is what makes a country successful....check out Britian and Germany after WW2....it took Britian years to recover with protectionist policies, Germany openly traded.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump knows who he is speaking to....he doesn't care about the others. What bothers me is the weakness of the moderator....this free for all is not good for the undecided. I wish they had a mod who would tell them to shut up and let the other speak, or more forcefully keep them on topic. Overall this was a waste of time and two weeks after this debate the polls will bare this out.




With all due respect, there was only one of the two that was off-topic last night, in my opinion. The other was was very focused.


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----------



## Macfury

Love that plug from Hillary to buy her failed book!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Actually Dr. G, the debate was a wash. Trump catered to his market, as did Clinton hers. There will be little bounce either way. What was needed for Clinton was to appear warm and cuddily, her problem is the " I'm smart" answers....she couldn't provide a simple answer under 300 words. Not good, it smacks of ego to those who don't like her.
> Trump on the other hand tipped his overall weakness, which is "system" knowledge. He doesn't look presidential because he isn't. His market it the lunch bucket crowd, who are increasingly seeing their jobs evaporate......via corporate transfer. Trade is what makes a country successful....check out Britian and Germany after WW2....it took Britian years to recover with protectionist policies, Germany openly traded.
> 
> Trump knows who he is speaking to....he doesn't care about the others. What bothers me is the weakness of the moderator....this free for all is not good for the undecided. I wish they had a mod who would tell them to shut up and let the other speak, or more forcefully keep them on topic. Overall this was a waste of time and two weeks after this debate the polls will bare this out.


Rp, I agree with your point about the weakness of the debate moderator. As well, yes, both spoke to "their markets". However, whereas Trump made some stupid comments that will haunt him, Clinton was confident in her replies, even though they were up to 300 words. I would rather have her be able to be informed and be able to transmit this knowledge and understanding of the issues, regardless of how many words it takes, than to have someone like Trump as president.

Thus, I felt that is was not a waste of my time to watch the whole debate. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> With all due respect, there was only one of the two that was off-topic last night, in my opinion. The other was was very focused.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True ............... and he was WAY off topic at times.


----------



## Dr.G.

A very powerful and moving video.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1243975279028857/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True ............... and he was WAY off topic at times.



Like they said in the Big Leibowski: you're out of your depth, Donny!

https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q


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----------



## Macfury

Polling of the US public shows an astonishingly high number choosing Trump as the winner.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like they said in the Big Leibowski: you're out of your depth, Donny!
> 
> https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Polling of the US public shows an astonishingly high number choosing Trump as the winner.




On Fox?????????


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Love that plug from Hillary to buy her failed book!


Speaking of her failed book...

Amazon steps in to 'fix' Hillary book review



> If you can’t even win when the rules are changed in your favor, things must be REALLY bad.
> 
> That’s how it looks for Hillary Clinton’s new 2016 campaign book, “Stronger Together,” co-authored with running mate Tim Kaine.
> 
> WND reported just days ago when the book was being savaged on Amazon.com with negative reviews, with 81 percent one-star ratings and an average of only 1.7.
> 
> Clinton supporters lashed out at “trolls” they said were criticizing the book only because they oppose the Democrat’s presidential candidacy.
> 
> WND previously reported there were more than 1,200 reviews, and the number grew to than 2,000.
> 
> But Thursday afternoon, there were only 255, with many of the most critical reviews removed by Amazon, whose CEO, Jeff Bezos, owns the Washington Post, which created an army of 20 reporters and researchers to investigate the life of Donald Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> On Fox?????????


Dr.G, you've really got to start getting your news from somewhere else...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G, you've really got to start getting your news from somewhere else...


I never view Fox. I go to CNN, PBS, NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the Wall Street Journal, the Globe and Mail, CBC and even our local Chronicle Herald.

At least the CH covered that Trump had a cold ............ poor boy. That, and a defective mic ....................... along with being unprepared. 

VIDEO: Trump plagued with the sniffles during debate | The Chronicle Herald


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> On Fox?????????



Two things: consider the network, and consider the source. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Two things: consider the network, and consider the source.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. e.g. The NY Times ... "all the news that is fit to print". Fox News ........ "faux news".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> On Fox?????????


CNN
Drudge
Time
CBS New York
Washington Times

2016 presidential debate snap polls show Trump beating Hillary Clinton by a landslide | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> CNN
> Drudge
> Time
> CBS New York
> Washington Times
> 
> 2016 presidential debate snap polls show Trump beating Hillary Clinton by a landslide | Daily Mail Online


Luckily, the ones that really count and do accurate polling gave it to Clinton. As well, I watched the entire debate and while I thought that Trump had the first 20 minutes, he cratered in the middle and crashed at the end. Reminded me of the Ali "rope a dope" strategy, with Muhammad Ali in his 1974 Rumble in the Jungle match against George Foreman. To be honest, I thought that Ali was beaten in the initial rounds, but in round 8 he gave it to George Foreman. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AasOJZzDE[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, the ones that really count and do accurate polling gave it to Clinton. As well, I watched the entire debate and while I thought that Trump had the first 20 minutes, he cratered in the middle and crashed at the end. Reminded me of the Ali "rope a dope" strategy, with Muhammad Ali in his 1974 Rumble in the Jungle match against George Foreman. To be honest, I thought that Ali was beaten in the initial rounds, but in round 8 he gave it to George Foreman.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AasOJZzDE[/ame]



Online polls tend not to be very scientific, despite the numbers of respondents (in the millions). The FiveThirtyEight, similar to Canada's ThreeHundredEight gives the win to Clinton. 










http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...which-means-shes-likely-to-gain-in-the-polls/


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## Dr.G.

The election in November shall be the final poll. I just sent in my absentee ballot with a vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This article explains how Clinton played Trump, and quite handily too. 










http://www.vox.com/2016/9/27/13074956/hillary-clinton-debate-win-trump-bait-reaction


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> This article explains how Clinton played Trump, and quite handily too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton's 7 subtle and not-so-subtle tricks for baiting Donald Trump - Vox
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Point .............. Set .................. Match.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And then there's this article from one of Trump's SUPPORTERS. Still think he "won by a landslide"?



















http://nypost.com/2016/09/27/trumps-debate-incompetence-a-slap-in-the-face-to-his-supporters/


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## Dr.G.

Hard to believe that the NY Post would publish this sort of article. The Post has strayed far to the right of Fox, being a Rupert Murdoch publication.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Hard to believe that the NY Post would publish this sort of article. The Post has strayed far to the right of Fox, being a Rupert Murdoch publication.



Well than that certainly tells you something, doesn't it? So much for the Great Tangerine Hope. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well than that certainly tells you something, doesn't it? So much for the Great Tangerine Hope.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, let's hope for a decisive Clinton victory in November. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Polling of the US public shows an astonishingly high number choosing Trump as the winner.


I would be astonished by anything over 1 in 300-million....  :lmao:


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I would be astonished by anything over 1 in 300-million....  :lmao:



*sniffle*snuffle*snort*


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## Macfury

You can pat yourself on the back all you want folks, and cuddle yourself with links, but the voters overwhelmingly believe Trump won.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You can pat yourself on the back all you want folks, and cuddle yourself with links, but the voters overwhelmingly believe Trump won.



That's pretty funny, considering your only source is internet online polls. Anyone who's cited specific examples, including Trump himself, does not appear to agree with you. Care to explain the strategies that helped Trump win over the viewers on Monday? We've already provided you with plenty of analysis of why he didn't. I'm interested to know your rationale for why you believe Trump was the better debater. To me he just looked and sounded overwhelmed. 


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You can pat yourself on the back all you want folks, and cuddle yourself with links, but the voters overwhelmingly believe Trump won.


We shall see comes election day who shall get the "pat on the back" as she earns the right to enter the White House as president in January .............. and who goes back to his penthouse in Trump Towers in NYC. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I would be astonished by anything over 1 in 300-million....  :lmao:





Freddie_Biff said:


> *sniffle*snuffle*snort*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's pretty funny, considering your only source is internet online polls. Anyone who's cited specific examples, including Trump himself, does not appear to agree with you. Care to explain the strategies that helped Trump win over the viewers on Monday? We've already provided you with plenty of analysis of why he didn't. I'm interested to know your rationale for why you believe Trump was the better debater. To me he just looked and sounded overwhelmed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see comes election day who shall get the "pat on the back" as she earns the right to enter the White House as president in January .............. and who goes back to his penthouse in Trump Towers in NYC. Paix, mon ami.



Well he is building a hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, he said, so he'll be in the vicinity either way. An odd thing to remark, but then he's a rather odd fellow. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well he is building a hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, he said, so he'll be in the vicinity either way. An odd thing to remark, but then he's a rather odd fellow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, so long as he does not turn 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. into the new Trump Towers, he can build where he pleases. 
Paix, mon ami.


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## Freddie_Biff

Yet more analysis. I jes loves when righties start to eat their own kind. M'bold. 




























http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/09/...ndorsed-democrat-first-time-126-year-history/


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You can pat yourself on the back all you want folks, and cuddle yourself with links, but the voters overwhelmingly believe Trump won.


Trump "won"










Clinton Won The Debate, Which Means She's Likely To Gain In The Polls | FiveThirtyEight


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## Macfury

Check all of the straw polls following the debate. Has nothing to do with my own opinion.

(That meme is so tired out, it needs to be retired. Showing your age, CM?)


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> I go to CNN, PBS, NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the Wall Street Journal, the Globe and Mail, CBC and even our local Chronicle Herald.


<sigh> Exactly...


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## Macfury

FeXL said:


> <sigh> Exactly...


Confirmation bias. Sad, really.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Confirmation bias. Sad, really.


These are some of the best news sources in the US, mon ami. You may disagree, which is your right, but these are my sources of info. Paix.


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## Dr.G.

A good editorial in the Globe and Mail. Clinton must be prepared for what is to come and not let down her guard or become overconfident.

"His pitch is that everything is broken, and Hillary and the Democrats broke it. The story isn’t true, but many Americans are open to it. If Mr. Trump can stick to that message, and do it calmly, the next debate could go very differently. The election isn’t over yet. Not by a long shot."

Sure, Trump lost the first debate. But watch out next time - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> These are some of the best news sources in the US, mon ami. You may disagree, which is your right, but these are my sources of info. Paix.



No kidding. I have yet to read an article that explains how Trump was able to handily defeat Clinton in the debate on Monday with examples to demonstrate. There are TONS of analyses going the other way, however. 


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Confirmation bias. Sad, really.


Completely & utterly unfathomable...


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> These are some of the best news sources in the US, mon ami.


Forty years ago, that observation would have carried some weight. With the bar currently set so low it's hardly a ringing endorsement.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Forty years ago, that observation would have carried some weight. With the bar currently set so low it's hardly a ringing endorsement.



Please explain, in your own words, how and why you think Trump won the debate. Because so far, you got nuttin'.


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## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> No kidding. I have yet to read an article that explains how Trump was able to handily defeat Clinton in the debate on Monday with examples to demonstrate. There are TONS of analyses going the other way, however.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi Frank. The debate is not about winning voters, it is about not loosing your base. I have prepped a few candidates running for office ( yes nothing at this level but the process is quite similar ) the key is not to alienate your target group. Trump wasn't speaking to you or I, he was speaking to the converted. Clinton did little to sway her undecided and she, also cemented her base. The next debate will have the both attacking each other....this next one will be the fun one to watch. Actually, the best defence for Clinton is to expose Trumps truths......( yes it will be a short defence ) but take his lead and attack that. For example, his comment on Ford moving to Mexico. Clinton who was in Michigan recently should have said " yes it is true they are moving some production but they are bringing new investment to Michigan ( which is true ) and bringing two new products to the affected plants....more jobs not less. This is using Trump's truth against him. Once you do that then everything he will say will be exposed as a "lie".


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> “If it is not right, do not do it; *if it is not true, do not say it*.”
> - Marcus Aurelius


M'bold.

This post puzzles me, Dr.G. I think you were aiming it at Trump. However, are you not aware of the vast amount of lies Bill's Wife has uttered over the course of her career?


----------



## FeXL

Please quote my exact words where I said he did, Nuttin' Man...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please explain, in your own words, how and why you think Trump won the debate. Because so far, you got nuttin'.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> M'bold.
> 
> This post puzzles me, Dr.G. I think you were aiming it at Trump. However, are you not aware of the vast amount of lies Bill's Wife has uttered over the course of her career?


The first part was for Clinton, and the last part was for Trump. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> No kidding. I have yet to read an article that explains how Trump was able to handily defeat Clinton in the debate on Monday with examples to demonstrate. There are TONS of analyses going the other way, however.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. My worry is that he will pull a Pres. Obama after his first debate with Romney and that Trump will get it together. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Forty years ago, that observation would have carried some weight. With the bar currently set so low it's hardly a ringing endorsement.


This is a matter of opinion, mon ami. So, let's agree to disagree. Paix.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> This is a matter of opinion, mon ami. So, let's agree to disagree. Paix.


With all respect due, my friend, American's unprecedented lack faith in the media to deliver accurate & unbiased news is a matter of fact.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Hi Frank. The debate is not about winning voters, it is about not loosing your base. I have prepped a few candidates running for office ( yes nothing at this level but the process is quite similar ) the key is not to alienate your target group. Trump wasn't speaking to you or I, he was speaking to the converted. Clinton did little to sway her undecided and she, also cemented her base. The next debate will have the both attacking each other....this next one will be the fun one to watch. Actually, the best defence for Clinton is to expose Trumps truths......( yes it will be a short defence ) but take his lead and attack that. For example, his comment on Ford moving to Mexico. Clinton who was in Michigan recently should have said " yes it is true they are moving some production but they are bringing new investment to Michigan ( which is true ) and bringing two new products to the affected plants....more jobs not less. This is using Trump's truth against him. Once you do that then everything he will say will be exposed as a "lie".


Good points, RPS. But I have a feeling that no truth, no matter how obvious, will sway hard-core Trump supporters.


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## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> The first part was for Clinton, and the last part was for Trump. Paix, mon ami.


The question remains unanswered, my friend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Please quote my exact words where I said he did, Nuttin' Man...




So you are admitting that you don't think he won the debate either?


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## FeXL

So, while fjn scrambles in vain to search the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread looking for my endorsement of Trump as the winner of the debate (a task he will fail at), I'd like to talk moderator a bit.

In my mind, a moderator should be conduct themselves in an unbiased, fair & even-handed fashion to all participants. It is painfully obvious that Lester Holt fell far short of these goals.

Holt Interrupted Trump WAY More Than Clinton In Debate



> Moderator Lester Holt was much harsher on Republican nominee Donald Trump than he was on Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton during the debate Monday evening.
> 
> Holt interrupted Trump a whopping 41 times, either to “fact-check” the Republican nominee, or to ask a follow-up question. Clinton was only interrupted seven times during the course of the 90-minute debate.


Lester Holt: The Third Debater?



> At tonight’s debate, Donald Trump faced off not just against Hillary Clinton, but against moderator Lester Holt.
> 
> The game of two-on-one saw Holt ask no questions about:
> 
> ** Hillary’s emails
> * Benghazi
> * The Clinton Foundation*
> 
> While ignoring these issues, Holt grilled Trump on stop-and-frisk, the birther story, his comments about women, his many bankruptcies, why he hasn’t released his tax returns — and a host of other issues the media sees as unfriendly to the Republican candidate.


M'bold.

Nor was the topic of immigration raised.

Debate Wrap-Up: Media Bashing of Lauer Has Desired Effect as Lester Holt Lets His Bias Fly



> Forget everything you read or heard about Lester Holt being a Republican. After Matt Lauer dared to ask Hillary Clinton a couple of very fair questions at the Commander-in-Chief Forum and was savaged by the likes of WaPo, The New York Times and MSNBC, Lester Holt made sure that he didn't end up being the story in the MSM tomorrow.


(edit: this link & comment added)

Five Times Lester Holt Shilled for Hillary Clinton at First Debate



> Holt lived up to the expectations of his peers. But he lived down to the worst expectations of conservatives, who routinely see Republican candidates treated unfairly by debate moderators.
> 
> Again and again, Holt asked Trump tough questions that were straight from the Clinton campaign’s talking points, and which were obvious set-ups for Clinton to attack (and for fact-checkers to pounce on whatever Trump asserted in his own defense).
> 
> Here are the five worst examples.


And, finally, what I think is a fair analysis of the debate:

The Debate Debate



> The sanest analysis about last night holds that the trajectory of the race hasn’t changed and I think this is correct. Hillary needed a stellar performance which she didn’t deliver while Trump needed to make fatal, ghastly errors that derailed his momentum. That didn’t happen either. The remaining two debates, plus one vice presidential debate, seem unlikely to yield a different result and with smaller viewing audiences expected.
> 
> Seventy percent of Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. It’s difficult to see how, at the end of the day and with turnout models increasingly showing an electorate highly favorable to Trump, that Hillary can win a third Obama term.


----------



## FeXL

You accused me of endorsing Trump as winner of the debate. I await proof of that. See below...



FeXL said:


> Please quote my exact words where I said he did, Nuttin' Man...





Freddie_Biff said:


> So you are admitting that you don't think he won the debate either?


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the problem...

25 Percent Of Federal Employees Said They’d Consider Quitting If Donald Trump Elected President



> A poll conducted by Government Business Council, Government Executive Media Group’s research arm showed 14 percent of government workers said they would definitely consider quitting if Trump wins the White House. Another 11 percent said they might consider it.


Win-win...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> These are some of the best news sources in the US, mon ami. You may disagree, which is your right, but these are my sources of info. Paix.


I certainly disagree. They provide a monocular view of the news.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> With all respect due, my friend, American's unprecedented lack faith in the media to deliver accurate & unbiased news is a matter of fact.


Sorry, that is still your opinion. Many Americans lack faith in the media, and even moreso the US Congress. Still, they are free to hold these views. While I am disappointed in the lack of compromise in Congress, there are still sources of news I trust.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good points, RPS. But I have a feeling that no truth, no matter how obvious, will sway hard-core Trump supporters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. They are with him until the end. Let's hope that this ends of election day. Still, they will be very disappointed and NOT happy campers should Trump lose. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I certainly disagree. They provide a monocular view of the news.


Once again, let's agree to disagree and move on to the next debate. I think that the VP debate will be a bit dull, but the next presidential debate should be very interesting. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> With all respect due, my friend, American's unprecedented lack faith in the media to deliver accurate & unbiased news is a matter of fact.


However, the left still respects its house organs, such as the NYT and NPR.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> With all respect due, my friend, American's unprecedented lack faith in the media to deliver accurate & unbiased news is a matter of fact.


You can thank Fox "News" for a large part of the deterioration of US domestic news trustworthiness.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You accused me of endorsing Trump as winner of the debate. I await proof of that. See below...



You're sort of speaking in tongues, amigo. I really don't know what you believe at this point because you're evading the question. I ask you simply; do you think Trump won the debate or not? What convinces you either way?


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You can thank Fox "News" for a large part of the deterioration of US domestic news trustworthiness.


FOX just logged record audiences. They're the only part of the media that people still trust.

Trumpocalypse Showers Cable News Networks With Q3 Ratings Records | Deadline


----------



## FeXL

You said I endorsed Trump.

Show me where.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I really don't know what you believe at this point because you're evading the question.


----------



## FeXL

How? There are not enough people in the US watching Fox to bring down the numbers in that survey by themselves. Period.



CubaMark said:


> You can thank Fox "News" for a large part of the deterioration of US domestic news trustworthiness.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> However, the left still respects its house organs, such as the NYT and NPR.


Well, both organs are cancerous & need treatment. If not replacement then outright excision...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

A new take of Mary Poppins ...............


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/nbcnightlynews/videos/10154644696813689/

It makes EVERYONE angry. It is NOT smart to not pay your fair share of taxes.


----------



## Dr.G.

#TrumpWon the debate? Legitimate polls show otherwise - Politics - CBC News

Interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/nbcnightlynews/videos/10154644696813689/
> 
> 
> 
> It makes EVERYONE angry. It is NOT smart to not pay your fair share of taxes.



This is exactly why Trump is unqualified to be a mayor of a small town, much less a President. He is a raging narcisisst. The only thing he cares about is himself. He could care less about serving the public. The only thing he knows about the tax system for example is how to take advantage of it. 


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## Dr.G.

How Donald Trump can – shudder – win - The Globe and Mail

"Be afraid ............. be very afraid."


----------



## FeXL

It's gotta be bad when even the _NYT_ is beginning to pay attention...

Belatedly released transcripts show Omar Mateen was an ‘avid consumer’ of ISIS propaganda



> For weeks after the mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida there were stories suggesting some alternative motivation, other than terrorism, for Omar Mateen’s actions. The most common was that Mateen was targeting gays because he himself was gay. One person, who claimed to be Mateen’s gay lover, said the attack was revenge because he believed he had been infected with HIV. Weeks later the FBI revealed that it had found no evidence to corroborate any of these stories. As far as they could determine, Mateen was not living a secret life.
> 
> *So what did motivate Mateen?*


M'bold.

Funny, everybody I talked to about it knew.

More:



> So Mateen’s attack was not that of someone who just wanted any available excuse for unleashing violence. He appears to have been a true believer. *But the long delay in releasing this material, which allowed all the alternative theories to flourish, seems odd to the same reporter for the Times, as does the decision to quietly drop this on a Friday evening.*
> 
> 19. The timing of this release, combined with past omissions, leads me to ask whether officials are stage-managing ISIS-linked attacks?​


M'bold.

Curiouser & curiouser...


----------



## FeXL

Good. If for no other reason than it's long overdue to have his ass handed to him on a tin plate...

White House lashes out at 'embarrassing' Senate veto override



> The White House lashed out at the Senate Wednesday for overriding President Obama’s veto of legislation that would allow U.S. citizens to sue Saudi Arabia over the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
> 
> “I would venture to say that this is the single most embarrassing thing that the United States Senate has done, possibly, since 1983,” Obama spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters aboard Air Force One.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> #TrumpWon the debate? Legitimate polls show otherwise - Politics - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.



Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Trump called Monday's debate a victory for the movement. Boy, if that's a victory, I'd hate to see what a defeat looks like.


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Trump called Monday's debate a victory for the movement. Boy, if that's a victory, I'd hate to see what a defeat looks like.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Defeat is not in his vocabulary, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"The time is always right to do what is right."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Like voting for Clinton. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/RandyRainbowOfficial/videos/875192765916001/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Braggadocious?????????????? He is not only making up facts, but now he is making up new words.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/RandyRainbowOfficial/videos/875192765916001/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
> 
> 
> 
> Braggadocious?????????????? He is not only making up facts, but now he is making up new words.






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## Macfury

Ir's quite interesting to see the debate discussed in such broad terms. While each debater appears to have had certain goals in mind, I believe that only Trump could be seen to have improved his electability with the demographic he is trying to reach,


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry, I must have missed something...

Are we talking Trump here? Or President Selfie, where, among other places, took a selfie during Mandela's memorial? Or PM Pompadour, who has a crew getting paid $600K/yr to manage his Twitter account?

I mean, if Trump is actually a "raging narcissist", fine. But there are world leaders out there who make him look like the JV team...



Freddie_Biff said:


> He is a raging narcisisst. The only thing he cares about is himself. He could care less about serving the public.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Ir's quite interesting to see the debate discussed in such broad terms.


I find it hilarious...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ir's quite interesting to see the debate discussed in such broad terms. While each debater appears to have had certain goals in mind, I believe that only Trump could be seen to have improved his electability with the demographic he is trying to reach,


Interesting observation, Macfury. Personally, I saw just the opposite. Trump solidified his base supporters, but did little to reach out to other demographics that he needs (e.g., those that voted for Romney, suburban white women, college educated under 30 folks, first time voters, etc). Clinton took a chance and reached out to her non-base. The key for her will be if she can bring home those hard-core Sanders supporters. If she can, she wins. If not, well ........... it will be a VERY tight race with a possible Trump victory. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary is widely perceived as mainstream, dishonest and cold. Anyone who supports a candidate with such a track record of obvious lies and malfeasance is not going to be influenced by the debate. Trump, more than Hillary, has his core supporter locked in. He doesn't need to make the broad but effective swipes against Hillary's "crookedness" during the debate, because that image is already locked in with his base--and it will not affect hardcore Dem support. His job was to convince a small group of people that Hillary represents the status quo and that she is out of touch with them--that all she has in mind for them is more government spending and making them wards of the state. I suspect he did that quite well.

Sanders is no secret weapon for Hill. If she drags him along at this point, Sanders will be seen as a two-timer, instead of making her look as though she is more like Sanders.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry, I must have missed something...
> 
> 
> 
> Are we talking Trump here? Or President Selfie, where, among other places, took a selfie during Mandela's memorial? Or PM Pompadour, who has a crew getting paid $600K/yr to manage his Twitter account?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, if Trump is actually a "raging narcissist", fine. But there are world leaders out there who make him look like the JV team...



Perhaps you need to look up the term Narcisisst. It's an official DSM-V classification, and it fits Trump to a T. Did you hear Trump refer to Republicans or in fact anyone but himself during the debate as fast as how to "make America great again?" I fail to see how Trudeau has anything at all to do with Trump's narcisissm. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you need to look up the term Narcisisst. It's an official DSM-V classification, and it fits Trump to a T.


Surprised you didn't mention this when Obama said upon his nomination:



> "...this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth."


----------



## FeXL

Perhaps you need to understand the definition of narcissism. It's summed up perfectly by many of the idiots on Assbook & ****ter: Memememememememememe!!! 

Ergo, Jug Ears & The Hairdo.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you need to look up the term Narcisisst.


Well, saaaluuuute!!

And, lemme guess, yer playin' armchair shrink. Again...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's an official DSM-V classification


Just one question...with all the dirt on Bill's Wife, everything, from Whitewater up to today (I won't bother wasting the bandwidth listing it all, but the list is long & distinguished), a lifelong career of lies, deceit & manipulation, you lefties are still supporting her.

What the hell would it take, what would she have to do, for you to pull her support?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hillary is widely perceived as mainstream, dishonest and cold. Anyone who supports a candidate with such a track record of obvious lies and malfeasance is not going to be influenced by the debate. Trump, more than Hillary, has his core supporter locked in. He doesn't need to make the broad but effective swipes against Hillary's "crookedness" during the debate, because that image is already locked in with his base--and it will not affect hardcore Dem support. His job was to convince a small group of people that Hillary represents the status quo and that she is out of touch with them--that all she has in mind for them is more government spending and making them wards of the state. I suspect he did that quite well.
> 
> Sanders is no secret weapon for Hill. If she drags him along at this point, Sanders will be seen as a two-timer, instead of making her look as though she is more like Sanders.


Once again, let's agree to disagree and maintain our friendship. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Surprised you didn't mention this when Obama said upon his nomination:




Check closely, Macfury: Trump rarely uses "we." It's always "I," as in "I'm gonna make America great again." Combined with his lack of empathy for anyone else but himself is textbook narcisissm. Not good leadership material.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Perhaps you need to understand the definition of narcissism. It's summed up perfectly by many of the idiots on Assbook & ****ter: Memememememememememe!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Ergo, Jug Ears & The Hairdo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, saaaluuuute!!
> 
> 
> 
> And, lemme guess, yer playin' armchair shrink. Again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one question...with all the dirt on Bill's Wife, everything, from Whitewater up to today (I won't bother wasting the bandwidth listing it all, but the list is long & distinguished), a lifelong career of lies, deceit & manipulation, you lefties are still supporting her.
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell would it take, what would she have to do, for you to pull her support?




I don't know. Fat shame a former Miss Universe? Refuse to release her taxes? Rape a 13 year old? There are many possibilities. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

*LET'S make America great again*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.








Freddie_Biff said:


> Check closely, Macfury: Trump rarely uses "we." It's always "I," as in "I'm gonna make America great again."


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> *LET'S make America great again*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


When did America stop being great, in spite of all of it's problems????


----------



## chasMac

Dr.G. said:


> When did America stop being great, in spite of all of it's problems????


Never was great; according to an athlete.

Colin Kaepernick: ‘Let’s Make America Great for the First Time’


----------



## Macfury

dr.g. said:


> when did america stop being great, in spite of all of it's problems????


1996.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> When did America stop being great, in spite of all of it's problems????




Around the same time in its evolution, much like Germany in the 1930's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> *LET'S make America great again*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Uh huh. Now go back and watch the debate again. Count the I's versus the we's and us's and you'll see how much Trump is a one man show. That's not leadership; that's dictatorship in the making.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Around the same time in its evolution, much like Germany in the 1930's.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A dangerous analogy, Frank ........... especially if Trump becomes president. XX)


----------



## Rps

You know all this talk about making America great again is horse-s****. America has always been great! I'm not a flag waving red white and bluer here, I look at the reality and I conclude America has never lost being a great country.....does she have problems....yes, will she fix them, yes, will they take time, yes...great countries invest in time to be better. I personally believe America has always done that. For a President to say let's make us great again shows me that person is a non-starter.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> You know all this talk about making America great again is horse-s****. America has always been great! I'm not a flag waving red white and bluer here, I look at the reality and I conclude America has never lost being a great country.....does she have problems....yes, will she fix them, yes, will they take time, yes...great countries invest in time to be better. I personally believe America has always done that. For a President to say let's make us great again shows me that person is a non-starter.


:clap::clap::clap: An excellent point, Rp. Paix, mon ami. Excelsior.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You know all this talk about making America great again is horse-s****. America has always been great! I'm not a flag waving red white and bluer here, I look at the reality and I conclude America has never lost being a great country.....does she have problems....yes, will she fix them, yes, will they take time, yes...great countries invest in time to be better. I personally believe America has always done that. For a President to say let's make us great again shows me that person is a non-starter.


I thoroughly disagree. Progressives have been dragging that country down for decades. On this tack it will soon be another underperforming nation, like a Greece or Portugal.


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

Macfury said:


> I thoroughly disagree. Progressives have been dragging that country down for decades. On this tack it will soon be another underperforming nation, like a Greece or Portugal.


Thats true. Race relations haven't been this bad since the 60s after decades of relative peace. More people on food stamps than ever. Respect around the world in steady decline. Border integrity is a joke. Education system pumping out whiny coddled snowflakes. Freedom of religion, conscience and assembly under constant leftist attack.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> America has always been great! I'm not a flag waving red white and bluer here, I look at the reality and I conclude America has never lost being a great country.....


I respectfully have to disagree. The "America is great!" meme is innately tied to a jingoistic perspective of the USA, tied to takin' names and kickin' ass (aka unlawful detention and indiscriminate bombing of civilians).

Domestically, it has enormous problems with inequality, racial conflict, poverty and homelessness, etc. Internationally, it continues to subvert the internal development of nations to further its own imperial ends.

It can't even do international aid correctly: Dropping a few gazillion sacks of the overproduced grain as food aid on starving populations turns out isn't the way to go: that damages local food production systems by depressing local prices and furthers the desire for US imports, exacerbating balance-of-trade relationships that are already damaged by international trade deals.

"America is Great!" is a view held by those who have not looked critically at the USA's domestic or global relationships.


----------



## Rps

The the peeing contest begin. One has to define what the term great means. All countries have issues, especially with income distribution. Global-Industrial countries also have issues, one could hardly say the UK, France and now Russia and China have stellar records . What has been the benchmark to me has been which country would you want to share a border with. America has seen itself as the world's policeman since the times of Teddy R.....just as The British Empire did I it's day......much of the ills in this world are because countries wish to sit back and allow the Imperialists to supply their solutions.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I thoroughly disagree. Progressives have been dragging that country down for decades. On this tack it will soon be another underperforming nation, like a Greece or Portugal.


Right on. I "thoroughly disagree" as well. Progressives have been lifting America up since the New Deal. This quote is at the gravesite of FDR in Hyde Park.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> The the peeing contest begin. One has to define what the term great means. All countries have issues, especially with income distribution. Global-Industrial countries also have issues, one could hardly say the UK, France and now Russia and China have stellar records . What has been the benchmark to me has been which country would you want to share a border with. America has seen itself as the world's policeman since the times of Teddy R.....just as The British Empire did I it's day......much of the ills in this world are because countries wish to sit back and allow the Imperialists to supply their solutions.


Valid points, Rp.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Right on. I "thoroughly disagree" as well. Progressives have been lifting America up since the New Deal. This quote is at the gravesite of FDR in Hyde Park.



Careful Dr. G, or they'll be calling you a snowflake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Careful Dr. G, or they'll be calling you a snowflake.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, I have been called far, far, far worse over the years. Even got a "call" from the KKK when I was teaching at a Freedom School in Coy, Alabama. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Right on. I "thoroughly disagree" as well. Progressives have been lifting America up since the New Deal. This quote is at the gravesite of FDR in Hyde Park.



It doesn't matter if it's on his gravesite. Charity should be voluntary, not confiscatory. The U.S. is quickly becoming a massive welfare apparatus. I like you Dr. G., but these ideas are killing the country.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It doesn't matter if it's on his gravesite. Charity should be voluntary, not confiscatory. The U.S. is quickly becoming a massive welfare apparatus. I like you Dr. G., but these ideas are killing the country.


Well, luckily, FDR and the New Deal saved the US during the Great Depression. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Lucky for who? FDR extended the Great Depression by years with his retrograde policies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Lucky for who? FDR extended the Great Depression by years with his retrograde policies.


Lucky for the millions upon millions upon millions of Americans who were saved from starvation and homelessness due to his policies and programs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, I have been called far, far, far worse over the years. Even got a "call" from the KKK when I was teaching at a Freedom School in Coy, Alabama. Paix, mon ami.




Yowza. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yowza.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. 3AM ............. pitch black skies .............. and we hear pounding on the front porch of the shack we were staying in. No one moved and they finally left. I was never so scared in my life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

"Obligatory confiscatory practices" (aka taxes) generate far more for those who need it than trickle down economics ever will. The problem is that many people, like....say.....TRUMP, when given the choice, will keep it all for themselves rather than help out others. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> "Obligatory confiscatory practices" (aka taxes) generate far more for those who need it than trickle down economics ever will. The problem is that many people, like....say.....TRUMP, when given the choice, will keep it all for themselves rather than help out others.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true.


----------



## FeXL

Reading this, I undersand completely why you think Bill's Wife is the best choice.

Fortunately, come November, you won't be getting your wish...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't know. Fat shame a former Miss Universe? Refuse to release her taxes? Rape a 13 year old? There are many possibilities.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Reading this, I undersand completely why you think Bill's Wife is the best choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately, come November, you won't be getting your wish...



If it's any reflection of Monday's debate, Trump will get creamed. By a girl. We shall see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Lucky for the millions upon millions upon millions of Americans who were saved from starvation and homelessness due to his policies and programs.


FDR was like an incompetent doctor, prescribing a patient the wrong medicine. Pathetically, the now-debilitated patient remains thankful when the doctor gives him a handout.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, your theory recently came to full flower... in Venezuela. It's called trickle-up poverty.



Freddie_Biff said:


> "Obligatory confiscatory practices" (aka taxes) generate far more for those who need it than trickle down economics ever will. The problem is that many people, like....say.....TRUMP, when given the choice, will keep it all for themselves rather than help out others.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR was like an incompetent doctor, prescribing a patient the wrong medicine. Pathetically, the now-debilitated patient remains thankful when the doctor gives him a handout.


FDR was the right person at the right time for America. What "the doctor" prescribed was what was needed to save America. Not everything he did was acceptable (e.g., the attempted packing of the Supreme Court), but his intentions with the social programs of the New Deal were good, and the results were positive. For me, he is still America's best president ever. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"When we begin to believe that there is greater joy in working with and for others, rather than just for ourselves, then our society will truly become a place of celebration."
Jean Vanier


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "When we begin to believe that there is greater joy in working with and for others, rather than just for ourselves, then our society will truly become a place of celebration."
> Jean Vanier


Work harder, Boxer--we're making progress!


----------



## SINC

Hmmm, interesting.

Ban On Selfies In The Voting Booth Is Unconstitutional

https://consumerist.com/2016/09/29/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hmmm, interesting.
> 
> Ban On Selfies In The Voting Booth Is Unconstitutional
> 
> https://consumerist.com/2016/09/29/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


Interesting. I was going to take a picture of my absentee ballot from the State of Georgia with my vote for Clinton and send it off to a friend of mine who lives in Georgia. I thought of it .............. but forgot. By the time I remembered, it was being mailed off. Still, I never thought of taking a selfie with my vote. Not sure I would do this if I were voting at a poll in Georgia, however. 

Still, this is an interesting take on the first amendment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Work harder, Boxer--we're making progress!


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr-5zaSjfmA[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fB-8Wr6a-8[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I would probably vote for her if she did not espouse the disastrous policies of Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would probably vote for her if she did not espouse the disastrous policies of Hillary Clinton.



You don't know disaster until you take a hard look at Trump's proposals to "make America great again." 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*The Doonesbury Trump retrospective proves that Garry Trudeau had Drumpf's number all along*










On September 14, 1987, Garry B Trudeau ran the first Doonesbury strip that mentioned Donald Trump, in which his characters marvel that New York's "loudest and most visible asshole" had floated a political trial balloon, hinting that he would run for president; thus began 30 years of marveling at, mocking, and skewering Der Drumpf, so rattling the Short-Fingered Vulgarian that he felt the need to issue a series of wounded denunciations. Now, just in time for the election, Trudeau has released a collection of his Trump-themed strips, Yuge: 30 Years of Doonesbury on Trump, just the thing to put the Republican nominee on tilt.​
(BoingBoing)


----------



## Macfury

Dooonesbury still? I guess if you dig deep enough you can find those hoary chestnuts of his.


----------



## CubaMark

_Y'know, it's like he really doesn't want to win... and is doing everything possible to sabotage his own campaign... and then is encouraged by the fact that, as he himself once noted, could shoot someone and not lose voters. The fact that Trump continues to receive *any* widespread support among US voters is a sad indictment of today's society...._

*Trump shames ex-beauty queen for sexual history*

Donald Trump shamed a former beauty pageant winner Friday for her sexual history and encouraged Americans to check out what he called her "sex tape," in an early morning tweet storm that dragged him further away from his campaign's efforts to broaden its appeal to women.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post reported that Trump's charitable foundation appears to have skirted state law, and USA Today broke with its tradition of not taking sides in elections with an editorial that said the Republican candidate is "unfit for the presidency." 

* * *​
On Friday, Trump said Machado had a "terrible" past that a "duped" Clinton had overlooked before holding her up "as an 'angel."'

"Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?" read the missive from Trump posted on his account at 5:30 a.m.

Trump's taunt appeared to refer to footage from a Spanish reality show in 2005 in which Machado was a contestant and appeared on camera in bed with a male contestant. The images, posted this week to a newspaper's website, are grainy and do not include nudity.

The show took place almost a decade after Trump invited reporters to watch Machado exercise after she won Miss Universe and then gained what he's recently described as "a massive amount of weight."​
(CBC)


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You don't know disaster until you take a hard look at Trump's proposals to "make America great again."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true.


----------



## Dr.G.

103-year-old Ruline Steininger wasted no time in casting her vote for Hillary Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting and moving article.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> 103-year-old Ruline Steininger wasted no time in casting her vote for Hillary Clinton - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> An interesting and moving article.


I hope that when President Trump takes office, they'll just lie to the old lady and tell her that Hillary won.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I hope that when President Trump takes office, they'll just lie to the old lady and tell her that Hillary won.


Nope. She will be at the inauguration of Clinton as president. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump's 3 a.m. ‘sex tape' tweets: How low he will go​ - The Globe and Mail 

Well, at least he was up at 3AM to get ready to accept that infamous 3AM phone call.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Nope. She will be at the inauguration of Clinton as president. :clap::clap::clap:



Maybe they'll both win, like Bush and Gore did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Well, at least he was up at 3AM to get ready to accept that infamous 3AM phone call.


:lmao: I have this image in my mind of the old bastard leaning over a laptop, squinting at the screen, with a lacky pressing buttons and clicking the mouse, as he searches vainly through PornHub or some other site, looking for ammunition to use against that former Miss Universe.

I mean.. *come ON guys!* That's the kind of Presidential behaviour you support? Trump's skin is so thin it's practically transparent XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe they'll both win, like Bush and Gore did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: I have this image in my mind of the old bastard leaning over a laptop, squinting at the screen, with a lacky pressing buttons and clicking the mouse, as he searches vainly through PornHub or some other site, looking for ammunition to use against that former Miss Universe.
> 
> I mean.. *come ON guys!* That's the kind of Presidential behaviour you support? Trump's skin is so thin it's practically transparent XX)


Bomb North Korea???????????? Invite Putin over to stay at the White House????


----------



## Macfury

CPD:



> *Statement about first debate*
> Sep 30, 2016
> 
> Regarding the first debate, there were issues regarding Donald Trump's audio that affected the sound level in the debate hall.


----------



## Macfury

They need a real mensch like Fidel Castro, because when he kills you he's serious about it!



CubaMark said:


> :lmao: I have this image in my mind of the old bastard leaning over a laptop, squinting at the screen, with a lacky pressing buttons and clicking the mouse, as he searches vainly through PornHub or some other site, looking for ammunition to use against that former Miss Universe.
> 
> I mean.. *come ON guys!* That's the kind of Presidential behaviour you support? Trump's skin is so thin it's practically transparent XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They need a real mensch like Fidel Castro, because when he kills you he's serious about it!


Macfury, you obviously do NOT know the meaning of the Yiddish word "mensch". Shalom, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, you obviously do NOT know the meaning of the Yiddish word "mensch". Shalom, mon ami.


I'm no kolboynick, but I know the meaning of _mensch_--I was being arch.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm no kolboynick, but I know the meaning of _mensch_--I was being arch.


You, "crafty"??? No, you tell it like it is. As for you being a "a know-it-all"??????????? Well, let's just remain friends and agree to disagree. Shalom, mon ami.  

Where did you learn Yiddish?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You, "crafty"??? No, you tell it like it is. As for you being a "a know-it-all"??????????? Well, let's just remain friends and agree to disagree. Shalom, mon ami.
> 
> Where did you learn Yiddish?


I read _The Education of Hyman Kaplan_ by Leonard Q. Ross... and a lot of old _Mad _magazines.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> CPD:




It is the poor carpenter who blames his hammer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Oy vey—I'm getting verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I read _The Education of Hyman Kaplan_ by Leonard Q. Ross... and a lot of old _Mad _magazines.


:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oy vey—I'm getting verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Just wait until Barbara Streisand comes in to sing.


----------



## FeXL

Yep...


----------



## Dr.G.

The Chicago Tribune just endorsed Gary Johnson for president. Their first endorsement was for Abe Lincoln. Bill Weld, Johnson's running mate, feels that Clinton would make the best president of all who are running in that she is "the most qualified".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Chicago Tribune just endorsed Gary Johnson for president. Their first endorsement was for Abe Lincoln. Bill Weld, Johnson's running mate, feels that Clinton would make the best president of all who are running in that she is "the most qualified".


Weld was a bad choice. Clinton is he antithesis of Libertarian.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Weld was a bad choice. Clinton is he antithesis of Libertarian.


Interesting. I think that Weld is helpful for Johnson.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I read _The Education of Hyman Kaplan_ by Leonard Q. Ross... and a lot of old _Mad _magazines.



I read The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz and watched a lot of Coffee Talk with Linda Richmond. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The Chicago Tribune just endorsed Gary Johnson for president. Their first endorsement was for Abe Lincoln. Bill Weld, Johnson's running mate, feels that Clinton would make the best president of all who are running in that she is "the most qualified".



Aleppo Gary? Seriously? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I read The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz and watched a lot of Coffee Talk with Linda Richmond.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"You're fired!!!"


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Aleppo Gary? Seriously?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Name one world leader .................. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the problem.

Ruth Ginsburg Threatens To “Resign From SCOTUS” If Trump Is Elected President



> After opening fire at the presumptive Republican presidential candidate, Ginsberg turned to her own plans should Donald Trump actually become the new President of the United States.
> 
> _“There’s no need to beat around the bush, so I’m just going to go ahead and say it – I will resign my position as a Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States if that happens. I cannot imagine performing my duties under the constant pressure of waking up in the morning and having to go to work knowing that every ruling we as an institution make will be viewed through the prism of a Trump presidency. I can tolerate this charade of a presidential campaign, but I could not live with him as president,” she said._​


Don't let the door hit you on yer arse on the way out...


----------



## FeXL

That lying, racist...

FLASHBACK: 10 Years Ago Today, Hillary Voted For A Massive Border Fence



> Thursday marks the ten-year anniversary of the day Hillary Clinton voted in favor of building a 700-mile fence along the Mexican border, intended to stop illegal immigration.


More:



> At the time, Hillary Clinton said the law was the only possible fix to a seemingly endless torrent of illegal immigrants entering the U.S.
> 
> “There isn’t any sensible approach except to do what we need to do simultaneously: you know, secure our borders with technology and personnel, physical barriers if necessary in some places,” she told the Council on Foreign Relations.


----------



## Dr.G.

This is not going to end well for Trump. We shall see.

Donald Trump's tax records reveal he could have avoided paying taxes for years - The Globe and Mail

Tax loophole in Trump's plan would create windfall for the rich

Donald Trump Said Not Paying Taxes 'Makes Me Smart,' Then Denied Saying It : snopes.com


----------



## CubaMark

This is gold. Actually, the debate was gold and this is a great comedic interpretation of it. And Baldwin does a pretty amazing Trump impression!





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

No argument...

Economists have a message: Clinton's policies are wrong for America



> On Monday, I joined with 305 economists from universities, think tanks and businesses across the country to convey a message to the American people: "Hillary Clinton's economic agenda is wrong for America."
> 
> Our statement, printed below in its entirety and signed by some of the county's most prominent economic theorists and practitioners, bemoans how "misguided federal policies have produced one of the slowest recoveries on record." It warns that *Clinton, the Democratic nominee, "promises to repeat almost all of [President] Obama's policy mistakes" and her "outdated policy prescriptions won't return our economy to the faster growth rates it once enjoyed."*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

So, for those of you on the left who are perpetually offended by things that people running for office _say_, as opposed to being offended by what people running for office have _done_, how does this quote square with your beliefs?

Or, because Bill's Wife is a lefty, it's entirely acceptable to talk about your potential supporters like this.

Jes' askin'...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> This is gold. Actually, the debate was gold and this is a great comedic interpretation of it. And Baldwin does a pretty amazing Trump impression!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Alec and Kate are a great comedy pair—almost as good as Donald and Hillary themselves! I quite enjoyed this skit. Michael Che is great as the moderator too with his deadpan delivery. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

I got a chuckle out of last night's SNL debate skit, but no overt laughs. I liked the Tina Fey/Sarah Palin vs Biden skits, and the Romney/Pres. Obama skits better.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, for those of you on the left who are perpetually offended by things that people running for office _say_, as opposed to being offended by what people running for office have _done_, how does this quote square with your beliefs?
> 
> Or, because Bill's Wife is a lefty, it's entirely acceptable to talk about your potential supporters like this.
> 
> Jes' askin'...


I see you're now drinking the Trump Flavor-Aid by the gallon, FeXL.

Still incapable of checking your "facts"?

*Hillary Clinton Said Democratic Voters Are Stupid*

_The above-displayed message was not uttered by Hillary Clinton and was not published in the 2005 book Rewriting History by Dick Morris. We found no record of the quote in any major publication. In fact, the first mention of this quote came in October 2015, more than a decade after Morris' book was published, on a Tumblr page dedicated to generating fake Hillary Clinton quotes:_​
(Full post at Snopes)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I got a chuckle out of last night's SNL debate skit, but no overt laughs. I liked the Tina Fey/Sarah Palin vs Biden skits, and the Romney/Pres. Obama skits better.



Perhaps because this was a little too close to the actual truth. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I see you're now drinking the Trump Flavor-Aid by the gallon, FeXL.
> 
> 
> 
> Still incapable of checking your "facts"?
> 
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton Said Democratic Voters Are Stupid*
> 
> 
> 
> _The above-displayed message was not uttered by Hillary Clinton and was not published in the 2005 book Rewriting History by Dick Morris. We found no record of the quote in any major publication. In fact, the first mention of this quote came in October 2015, more than a decade after Morris' book was published, on a Tumblr page dedicated to generating fake Hillary Clinton quotes:_​
> 
> 
> (Full post at Snopes)



Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory! 


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## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0

I hope that Trump sues the NY Times .............. because then he would have to reveal his tax records to prove they are guilty of libel. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Stop in the name of law.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/phoenix-sends-donald-trump-cease-desist-letter-ad/story?id=42494089


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Stop in the name of law.
> 
> Phoenix Sends Donald Trump Cease-and-Desist Letter Over Ad Featuring Police Officers - ABC News
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Pat Robertson: “Husbands Need To Boycott Intercourse With Their Wives If They're Planning To Vote For Hillary” - Newslo

Strange .....................


----------



## Dr.G.

No taxes???? Trouble in Trumpland????? We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

LeBron James endorses Hillary Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting endorsement.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Pat Robertson: â€œHusbands Need To Boycott Intercourse With Their Wives If Theyâ€re Planning To Vote For Hillaryâ€� - Newslo
> 
> 
> 
> Strange .....................




Boycott with their wives.... and only engage with other wives and concubines. It's the evangelical way. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Boycott with their wives.... and only engage with other wives and concubines. It's the evangelical way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

The real Donald Trump, everyone - The Globe and Mail

"This is Donald Trump. This is who will be in the White House if he wins the election. No one can kid themselves any more."

The phrase "Be afraid ........... be very afraid" comes to mind. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The real Donald Trump, everyone - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> "This is Donald Trump. This is who will be in the White House if he wins the election. No one can kid themselves any more."
> 
> 
> 
> The phrase "Be afraid ........... be very afraid" comes to mind. We shall see.



This simply cannot be. Certain very reliable members of this forum assured us that Trump won the debate last week in a landslide. 


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## Rps

It will be interesting. Ohio has moved to Trump, but I'm not sure about Florida....anyone have any poll numbers....I know it's early since about 25% make up their minds the week of and 10% the day of.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> This simply cannot be. Certain very reliable members of this forum assured us that Trump won the debate last week in a landslide.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Trump by a landslide????? God help us.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> It will be interesting. Ohio has moved to Trump, but I'm not sure about Florida....anyone have any poll numbers....I know it's early since about 25% make up their minds the week of and 10% the day of.


Well, I sent in my absentee ballot last week. So, I am locked in to my support for Clinton.


----------



## FeXL

This critique brought to you buy the guy who provided the rebuttal to his very point in his own quote... XX)



CubaMark said:


> Still incapable of checking your "facts"?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> This critique brought to you buy the guy who provided the rebuttal to his very point in his own quote... XX)


And again you avoid 'fessing up to your inherent inability to be truthful.

No edit, no _mea culpa_, no correction to your post?

Just leaving it out there in the hopes that other people will see it, not bother or be concerned with the subsequent posts, and be content that it will likely be repeated in all its false glory.

Yup. That's FeXL.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> It will be interesting. Ohio has moved to Trump, but I'm not sure about Florida....anyone have any poll numbers....I know it's early since about 25% make up their minds the week of and 10% the day of.


Clinton up by 1%--margin of error.


----------



## Macfury

Good grief. Dirtier and dirtier:

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/100316_Goodlatte-Letter-to-AG-Lynch.pdf



> As part of the Judiciary Committee's ongoing oversight of Secretary Clinton's unauthorized use of a private email server during her tenure as Secretary of State, the Justice Department (DOJ) provided in camera review' of certain immunity agreements. After a specific request from the Committee, based on references made in the immunity agreements to certain "side agreements," DOJ subsequently provided in camera review of those "side agreements" between DOJ, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and Beth Wilkinson, the lawyer representing both Cheryl Mills and Heather Samuelson. Like many things about this case, these new materials raise more questions than answers. Please provide a written response to the below questions and make DOJ staff available for a briefing on this matter no later than October 10, 2016.
> 
> *1. Why did the FBI agree to destroy both Cheryl Mills' and Heather Samuelson's laptops after concluding its search?*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, for those of you on the left who are perpetually offended by things that people running for office _say_, as opposed to being offended by what people running for office have _done_, how does this quote square with your beliefs?
> 
> 
> 
> Or, because Bill's Wife is a lefty, it's entirely acceptable to talk about your potential supporters like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Jes' askin'...



Boy. For a guy who is so thorough with his research, I'm surprised you fell for that one.

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-stupid-quote/


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## FeXL

You mean, like you did to yours, hypocrite?

Sorry, forgot. You admit to being a hypocrite & that's s'pose to make it all right...



CubaMark said:


> No edit, no _mea culpa_, no correction to your post?


----------



## FeXL

As always, fjn, yer only about a day behind...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy. For a guy who is so thorough with his research, I'm surprised you fell for that one.


----------



## CubaMark

The Narcissist is Never Wrong

_The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and he likes to present “proof” that he is correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and he is expert at diverting the blame to others – (“It’s not my fault. I lost that promotion because my team let me down”, “You were acting so stupid-you made me hit you.”, “If you weren’t so cold, I wouldn’t have had that affair”). A narcissist will never admit even horrendous mistakes and when confronted, he will deflect, delay and tell more lies. He believes he is invincible and perfect.

When we look deeply into ourselves and know we have been wrong, we are able to say “I make mistakes”. We apologize to the hurt party and continue to have a healthy, solid sense of ourselves as positive human beings. A narcissist is unable to do this as that would require acknowledging that he is not perfect. ._​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> As always, fjn, yer only about a day behind...



Perhaps, but at least I didn't fall for something that was so easy to check on Snopes. 


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## Dr.G.

There is talk of a new Star Wars movie with Donald Trump playing Darth Vader's evil brother. Trump will play the role of Taxi Vader in the film.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> There is talk of a new Star Wars movie with Donald Trump playing Darth Vader's evil brother. Trump will play the role of Taxi Vader in the film.




 Evading taxes may make him smart, but he would have been smarter not to mention it. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Evading taxes may make him smart, but he would have been smarter not to mention it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Joe Biden on Donald Trump: 'He's not a bad man, but his ignorance is so profound' - CNNPolitics.com

"He's not a bad man," Biden told CNN's Chris Cuomo on "New Day." "But his ignorance is so profound, so profound."

But Trump says that he is so very smart!!!!!!!! And Giuliani says that he is a "genius"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone is incorrect.

https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/782567818608779264


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump: 'I'm working for you now, I'm not working for Trump' - CNNPolitics.com

Well, this is good to hear. It is about time he starts to work for the US and not just himself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump: 'I'm working for you now, I'm not working for Trump' - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is good to hear. It is about time he starts to work for the US and not just himself.



It will never happen. Narcissists are not capable of helping anyone but themselves. 


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## eMacMan

The King of LIes and the Queen of Corruption battling tooth and nail. Both claiming they are there for the nation. Reminds me of a story about this man.

Was Robert Speer Denver's Greatest Mayor??? - Fairmount Cemetery



> *Robert Speer was the mayor of Denver in the early part of the twentieth century. He was arrogant, autocratic, and somewhat corrupt, but the appearance of the city today has a lot to do with his vision.*
> 
> He was born in Pennsylvania in 1855, but after contracting tuberculosis there, in 1878 he moved to Denver. Following a short stint as a clerk in the Daniels and Fisher store he entered city government, first as Denver City Clerk in 1884, then as postmaster, then in 1891 as President of the Denver Fire and Police Board where by assigning patronage jobs he built a strong political base, as well as collecting graft from the Red Light district on Market Street, and after hours saloons. In 1901 he became head of the Board of Public Works, the city’s largest agency.


By most accounts his tendency towards graft continued and even accelerated during his first two terms as Mayor. When he did go for the third term he supposedly campaigned and won on the slogan: "The First two terms were for me, this term is for you." 

Hey at least he was straight about being corrupt, and he did do a great deal for the city, which is much more than we can say about these two clowns.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It will never happen. Narcissists are not capable of helping anyone but themselves.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, in Trumpland, anything is possible ...........


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump appears to suggest that veterans suffering from PTSD are not 'strong'*
*The remarks were met with silence from an audience of veterans in Virginia, and soon generated a backlash on social media*

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has been widely criticised for mischaracterising military veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as not “strong” and unable to “handle” their experiences of combat.

Mr Trump participated in a Q&A with veterans on Monday in Virginia, where he was asked about PTSD, the high rate of veteran suicides and whether the US Veterans Administration (VA) ought to take a more “holistic” and “spiritual” approach to tackling mental health.

The property mogul responded positively to the suggestion, promising a “very, very robust” approach to veterans’ mental health under a Trump administration.

He also said: “People come back from war and combat and they see maybe what the people in this room have seen many times over, and you’re strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can’t handle it.”

The remarks were reportedly met with silence from the audience, and soon generated a backlash on social media.​
(Independent UK)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump appears to suggest that veterans suffering from PTSD are not 'strong'*
> *The remarks were met with silence from an audience of veterans in Virginia, and soon generated a backlash on social media*
> 
> Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has been widely criticised for mischaracterising military veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as not “strong” and unable to “handle” their experiences of combat.
> 
> Mr Trump participated in a Q&A with veterans on Monday in Virginia, where he was asked about PTSD, the high rate of veteran suicides and whether the US Veterans Administration (VA) ought to take a more “holistic” and “spiritual” approach to tackling mental health.
> 
> The property mogul responded positively to the suggestion, promising a “very, very robust” approach to veterans’ mental health under a Trump administration.
> 
> He also said: “People come back from war and combat and they see maybe what the people in this room have seen many times over, and you’re strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can’t handle it.”
> 
> The remarks were reportedly met with silence from the audience, and soon generated a backlash on social media.​
> (Independent UK)


Well, according to him some of them, if they were captured, are not heroes either.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump: 'If I lose, I don?t think you will ever see me again' - Business Insider

Yeah, right. That is what Nixon said in 1962.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump: 'If I lose, I don?t think you will ever see me again' - Business Insider
> 
> Yeah, right. That is what Nixon said in 1962.


That article is six months old.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That article is six months old.


True ............. and six years after Nixon told the reporters how they would miss "kicking him around" he was sitting in the White House. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True ............. and six years after Nixon told the reporters how they would miss "kicking him around" he was sitting in the White House. We shall see.


I can be similarly hopeful that Trump will be serving the American public in the White House.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I can be similarly hopeful that Trump will be serving the American public in the White House.


MF.... Seriously? You honestly think that buffoon is capable of leading the most powerful nation on earth? The one with nuclear and other arms?

I mean... setting aside one's hatred for Clinton, however justified, on his own merits you truly believe he would make a non-disastrous President?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I can be similarly hopeful that Trump will be serving the American public in the White House.



See, that's the whole point. Trump serves no one but himself. He is incapable of serving anyone as a member of the public service because his watching out for number one mentality is already so ingrained. That's why people categorize him as a narcissist, and the shoe seems to fit pretty well. Can you describe some of the things he has done that have not been in his own self-interest? Even one example would be a place to start. 


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## SINC

ABBW would be better.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I mean... setting aside one's hatred for Clinton, however justified, on his own merits you truly believe he would make a non-disastrous President?


Yes. In fact I think he is the only person who can turn that disastrous ship around at this point.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I can be similarly hopeful that Trump will be serving the American public in the White House.


Yes, that scared me when I wrote about Nixon, since six years after he said that we would not have him to kick around anymore, he was sitting in the White House. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Can you describe some of the things he has done that have not been in his own self-interest? Even one example would be a place to start. " Frank, I can. He had a "Yuug" portrait of himself commissioned, and had his foundation buy it for one of his hotels. Thus, should he lose and just "fade away" as he suggested, we have that portrait as a monument for all to remember what he looked like for years to come. Sort of like Emanuel Leutze's picture of Washington Crossing the Delaware.

Emanuel Leutze | Washington Crossing the Delaware | The Met


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes. In fact I think he is the only person who can turn that disastrous ship around at this point.


True. He will turn the "ship of state" around ............... and run it right back into the dock.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "Can you describe some of the things he has done that have not been in his own self-interest? Even one example would be a place to start. " Frank, I can. He had a "Yuug" portrait of himself commissioned, and had his foundation buy it for one of his hotels. Thus, should he lose and just "fade away" as he suggested, we have that portrait as a monument for all to remember what he looked like for years to come. Sort of like Emanuel Leutze's picture of Washington Crossing the Delaware.
> 
> 
> 
> Emanuel Leutze | Washington Crossing the Delaware | The Met



Well that's mighty white of him, but not exactly selfless or in the service of the greater good. I mean, even the contributions to charity appear to come from his foundation, which is actually other people's money. I don't believe he actually has a charitable bone in his body. His desire to be the winner means that everyone else must be the losers by comparison. It is really a wonder that he has made it as far as he has. It's like somebody dared him to run and his pride just won't allow him to pull the plug. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that's mighty white of him, but not exactly selfless or in the service of the greater good. I mean, even the contributions to charity appear to come from his foundation, which is actually other people's money. I don't believe he actually has a charitable bone in his body. His desire to be the winner means that everyone else must be the losers by comparison. It is really a wonder that he has made it as far as he has. It's like somebody dared him to run and his pride just won't allow him to pull the plug.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, while I would never use your opening comment, I do see your point. I have often wondered if he actually wanted to win the presidency, or just run for president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Upon his death, the New York Times wrote of the deceased President, "Men will thank God on their knees a hundred years from now that Franklin D. Roosevelt was in the White House. It was his hand, more than that of any other single man, that built the great coalition of the United Nations. It was his leadership which inspired free men in every part of the world to fight with greater hope and courage. Gone is the fresh and spontaneous interest which this man took, as naturally as he breathed air, in the troubles and the hardships and the disappointments and the hopes of little men and humble people." Elizabeth Shoumatoff’s Unfinished Portrait of President Roosevelt – which she was working on when he died – now hangs in the Little White House in Warm Springs, Georgia.

I have a feeling that The Times would not write something like this about Trump.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Upon his death, the New York Times wrote of the deceased President, "Men will thank God on their knees a hundred years from now that Franklin D. Roosevelt was in the White House. It was his hand, more than that of any other single man, that built the great coalition of the United Nations. It was his leadership which inspired free men in every part of the world to fight with greater hope and courage. Gone is the fresh and spontaneous interest which this man took, as naturally as he breathed air, in the troubles and the hardships and the disappointments and the hopes of little men and humble people." Elizabeth Shoumatoff’s Unfinished Portrait of President Roosevelt – which she was working on when he died – now hangs in the Little White House in Warm Springs, Georgia.
> 
> I have a feeling that The Times would not write something like this about Trump.


That's because they don't publish as much fiction as they used to.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> That's because they don't publish as much fiction as they used to.


Agreed. It's sad to see a guy who heaped so much punishment on voters--and convincing them that he was helping then at he same time. Thank goodness for the United Nations, because dictators need a stronger voice in world affairs.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> That's because they don't publish as much fiction as they used to.


That would be the Enquirer. The NY Times is "all the news that's fit to print". It is still one of the world's finest papers.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed. It's sad to see a guy who heaped so much punishment on voters--and convincing them that he was helping then at he same time. Thank goodness for the United Nations, because dictators need a stronger voice in world affairs.


We are in agreement if you change a few words around, Macfury. "It's great to see a guy who heaped so much hope on voters -- and convinced they that he was helping all Americans at the same time. Thank goodness for the United Nations, because world leaders need to find some way to bring about peace." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> We are in agreement if you change a few words around, Macfury. "It's great to see a guy who heaped so much hope on voters -- and convinced they that he was helping all Americans at the same time. Thank goodness for the United Nations, because world leaders need to find some way to bring about peace." Paix, mon ami.



Just a couple minor tweaks here and there. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just a couple minor tweaks here and there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True ....... but tweeks for the better. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We are in agreement if you change a few words around, Macfury. "It's great to see a guy who heaped so much hope on voters -- and convinced they that he was helping all Americans at the same time. Thank goodness for the United Nations, because world leaders need to find some way to bring about peace." Paix, mon ami.


After the Congo in the 1950s--one of its few victories--the UN lost all credibility.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> After the Congo in the 1950s--one of its few victories--the UN lost all credibility.


Sadly, it has not lived up to its full potential, especially these days. Humanitarian relief is now one of it's main tasks.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, it has not lived up to its full potential, especially these days. Humanitarian relief is now one of it's main tasks.


I think distributing what remains of the funds after the UN bigwigs skim off the cream may be its primary task.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think distributing what remains of the funds after the UN bigwigs skim off the cream may be its primary task.


Sadly, I agree with you in part here.


----------



## FeXL

Huh...

So, with the _NYT_'s illegally gained information on Trump's taxes (more on that below), the left is having a field day with what would otherwise be considered normal business practice: you lose close to a billion dollars, you don't pay taxes. Fairly simple

What is curiously absent from most of the MSM discussion is that Bill's Wife has utilized the same "loophole":

Clinton Campaign Admits Hillary Used Same Tax Avoidance "Scheme" As Trump



> Well this is a little awkward. With the leaked 1995 Trump tax returns 'scandal' focused on the billionaire's yuuge "net operating loss" and how it might have 'legally' enabled him to pay no taxes for years, we now discover none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton utilized a $700,000 "loss" to avoid paying some taxes in 2015.
> 
> The Clinton Campaign was quick to jump on the leaked Trump tax filing...


More:



> _In the words of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, "this bombshell report reveals [Hillary Clinton's] past business failures... and may show just how long [Hillary Clinton] may have avoided paying taxes."_​


However, displaying even more hypocrisy, the paper of record XX) has utilized some very creative accounting, itself!

Well Guess What? The New York Times Didn’t Pay Taxes Either!



> The New York Times has excited the Clinton campaign and the rest of the media with a revelation that Republican nominee Donald Trump declared a $916 million loss in 1995 that might have resulted in him not paying taxes in some subsequent years.
> 
> The implication, reinforced by CNN’s Jake Tapper on State of the Union on Sunday morning, is that Trump “avoided” paying taxes, *when in fact his tax liability was zero*, Breitbart is reporting.


M'bold.

More:



> … for tax year 2014, The New York Times paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million even though they had a pre-tax profit of $29.9 million in 2014. *In other words, their post-tax profit was higher than their pre-tax profit.* The explanation in their 2014 annual report is, “The effective tax rate for 2014 was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.” *If you don’t think it took fancy accountants and tax lawyers to make that happen, read the statement again.*


M'bold.

Now, as far as the illegally obtained tax info... When Climategate first erupted oh so many years ago, the staid _Times_ refused to publish any of the emails, under the guise of "illegally obtained". Curious how that shoe shifts from one foot to another, idn't it?


----------



## eMacMan

From what I understand it was all borrowed money. Trump did not lose anything but gained a Billion in tax offsets. Incidentally the lenders would also have lost money and written it off against their taxes. Talk about a double whammy. Nice loophole for the uber wealthy, not so good for the working stiff faced with higher tax bills to offset the shortfall.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> From what I understand it was all borrowed money. Trump did not lose anything but gained a Billion in tax offsets. Incidentally the lenders would also have lost money and written it off against their taxes. Talk about a double whammy. Nice loophole for the uber wealthy, not so good for the working stiff faced with higher tax bills to offset the shortfall.


True ............ tptptptp:greedy:


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Nice loophole for the uber wealthy, not so good for the working stiff faced with higher tax bills to offset the shortfall.


----------



## CubaMark

Hey, FeXL! How's that falsehood-spreading effort going?


XX)


----------



## Macfury

Clinton Campaign Helped Script Steve Harvey Interview

That wonderful, independent media.


----------



## Dr.G.

:d


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Took Polaroids, Interviewed Models In 1994 Playboy Video - CNNPolitics.com

This should actually help him in the polls. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Hey, FeXL! How's that falsehood-spreading effort going?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XX)




 Indeed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Hey, CM, how's that leadership thing going? You know, the one where you lead by example & not only retract all the posts of yours I've proven to be full of $h!t, but write a retraction & publicly apologize? 

Jeezuz...



CubaMark said:


> Hey, FeXL! How's that falsehood-spreading effort going?
> 
> 
> XX)


----------



## FeXL

And you, fjn. Still not an original thought in your head...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Trump Took Polaroids, Interviewed Models In 1994 Playboy Video - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> This should actually help him in the polls. We shall see.


I don't understand. So Trump took photos of potential Playboy models. So what?

I photographed a young lady just this summer who has aspirations for being a Playboy Plus model. She was nude & the images are explicit. I've photographed dozen of nudes over the years, mostly female but some males, as well. Should that somehow disqualify me from running for public office? Or anything else?


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I don't understand. So Trump took photos of potential Playboy models. So what?
> 
> I photographed a young lady just this summer who has aspirations for being a Playboy Plus model. She was nude & the images are explicit. I've photographed dozen of nudes over the years, mostly female but some males, as well. Should that somehow disqualify me from running for public office? Or anything else?


Exactly. This should gain him votes, not lose him votes.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hey, CM, how's that leadership thing going? You know, the one where you lead by example & not only retract all the posts of yours I've proven to be full of $h!t, but write a retraction & publicly apologize?


HA HA HA HA HA :lmao: HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

This is turning into Trump's "I'll turn over my tax records when Hillary turns over those 30,000 emails!" bull****.

Sigh. Give me a list of these posts that you supposedly corrected and I'll see if you have a case. I don't recall any moment in which you corrected something I posted. There have been many instances where the writing was on the wall... that further engagement with you was pointless and I simply stopped responding to you. But that sure as hell isn't the same as you being right about something


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> And you, fjn. Still not an original thought in your head...




That's it? You're pissed because I agree with someone? You got nuttin'. But I still got Snopes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I don't understand. So Trump took photos of potential Playboy models. So what?
> 
> 
> 
> I photographed a young lady just this summer who has aspirations for being a Playboy Plus model. She was nude & the images are explicit. I've photographed dozen of nudes over the years, mostly female but some males, as well. Should that somehow disqualify me from running for public office? Or anything else?



Yes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes.


Good god Frank, you can't be serious? There are thousands of respected photogs who shoot nudes. What rock are you living under?


----------



## FeXL

Ya know, I wouldn't be too embarrassed about that if I were you. Most of the Progs on this board who have their faith-based narratives challenged by facts & logic do the same thing. They tuck tail & run. No biggie...



CubaMark said:


> There have been many instances where the writing was on the wall... that further engagement with you was pointless and I simply stopped responding to you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Good god Frank, you can't be serious? There are thousands of respected photogs who shoot nudes. What rock are you living under?




I have no problem with nude photographers. Well, providing it is the models and not the photographers that are nude. But I would expect that occupation could provide some problems with somebody running for president of the United States.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I think distributing what remains of the funds after the UN bigwigs skim off the cream may be its primary task.


MacFury you might agree with me here, we shall see. I think the UN is a sham and it's inept organisation does more to harm than help. If I were the PM I would pull Canada from this self congratulating organisation in a heart beat.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> I have no problem with nude photographers. Well, providing it is the models and not the photographers that are nude. But I would expect that occupation could provide some problems with somebody running for president of the United States.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You mean someone who owns a beauty pageant.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury you might agree with me here, we shall see. I think the UN is a sham and it's inept organisation does more to harm than help. If I were the PM I would pull Canada from this self congratulating organisation in a heart beat.


Absolutely agreed. It legitimizes corruption and dictatorship while promoting crony capitalism. At the same tine it is attempting to become the "Brussels" of the globe.


----------



## FeXL

So, photographers who tastefully photograph nudes are out but admitted pot smokers are fine...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I have no problem with nude photographers. Well, providing it is the models and not the photographers that are nude. But I would expect that occupation could provide some problems with somebody running for president of the United States.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> So, photographers who tastefully photograph nudes are out but admitted pot smokers are fine...


Bit confused, did you try to imply that the Donald had done something tastefully? Seems rather unlikely but I am quite willing to allow you to try to back it up with hard imperious evidence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's lesson in 'Nevada' pronunciation backfires - CNNPolitics.com

Oops!!!!!

"Heroin overdoses are surging and meth overdoses in Nevada," the Republican presidential nominee told a Reno crowd. Trump repeated the word, pronouncing it "ne-VAH-da." 

"One problem: It did happen to Trump. Nevadans were quick to point out that Trump had it backwards -- and few did so more sharply than Reid.

"If Trump wants to come down from the penthouse his daddy bought him to lecture us on Nevada, he could at least pronounce it correctly," the retiring Democratic senator tweeted. 

That pronunciation is like "Nev-AD-a." "

I guess this is why linguistics is not taught at Trump University. He should sign up for a course in the Bernie Sanders School of Brooklynese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waeXBCUkuL8


----------



## FeXL

S'okay. Barry has visited 57 states...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> S'okay. Barry has visited 57 states...


 There are only 46 states in the US.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> There are only 46 states in the US.


Well, then your current president needs a geogerfy lesson. Sorry, Dr.G., probably not something the _NYT_ printed...


----------



## FeXL

Language warning at the vid.

The US (and Canada) could both use more refugees like this.

“If you plan on bringing the Muslims I fled to the land I found, meet me for an ass-kicking”: Refugee's jaw-dropping interview about Islam



> A young refugee girl who fled the Middle East for America is one of the bravest people you will meet.
> 
> The woman, named Sarah, showed up at a Milo Yiannopoulos event and surprisingly rocked the venue. She explains how she came to America, supports Donald Trump, and lived through an Islamic marriage.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Language warning at the vid.
> 
> The US (and Canada) could both use more refugees like this.
> 
> “If you plan on bringing the Muslims I fled to the land I found, meet me for an ass-kicking”: Refugee's jaw-dropping interview about Islam


Ummm.. yeah. You might not want to put all your eggs in that basket. Sarah Torrent (aka "sarzitron" aka "sarzisarz") has left a ... let's say... "interesting" breadcrumb trail across the internet. 

I'm sure it's entirely possible that she's an actual divorced (?) ex-Muslim bride from Syria who now loves apple pie and The Donald. Lots of women have been victimized by conservative, fundamentalist religious fanatics in Muslim countries and Christian countries. The treatment of women in some of the USA & Canada's fringe (heck, mainstream!) religions has been atrocious.

But just like that Hill & Knowlton star from 1990 (and (1)(2)(3)), you never really know about some of these folks, until the damage has been done...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> You mean someone who owns a beauty pageant.



Could be. 


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, photographers who tastefully photograph nudes are out but admitted pot smokers are fine...



Not sure what you're getting at. I personally have no problem with nude photographers, as I've said, but this occupation is not usually found on the list of prerequisites for public office. Given the scrutiny those who take the oath of public office receive these days, I would think it could well be a hindrance. 

Now Trump, unlike yourself, does not strike me as the kind of person to have ever taken tasteful photographs, nude or otherwise. But he does have a very real reputation of misogyny, so it's not exactly a leap to consider that a number of his photos may have been less than tasteful. 


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## FeXL

On the contrary, I'll take a hunnert of her over a single one of the bastards like the one who fondled a little girl & her mother in a local swimming pool...



CubaMark said:


> Ummm.. yeah. You might not want to put all your eggs in that basket.


----------



## FeXL

You noted that someone who had taken nude photos could have problems running for president. I countered with another example: a pot smoking president, ie, Barry.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not sure what you're getting at.


Where is said list? I'd love to read it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...this occupation is not usually found on the list of prerequisites for public office.


I don't think that means what you think it means. Said oath & subsequent "scrutiny" certainly hasn't meant anything to Barry, Bill's Wife, PM Pompadour, etc. It's a joke.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Given the scrutiny those who take the oath of public office receive these days, I would think it could well be a hindrance.


A leap you're more than willing to make, with no corroborating evidence. Nice.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Now Trump, unlike yourself, does not strike me as the kind of person to have ever taken tasteful photographs, nude or otherwise. But he does have a very real reputation of misogyny, so it's not exactly a leap to consider that a number of his photos may have been less than tasteful.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You noted that someone who had taken nude photos could have problems running for president. I countered with another example: a pot smoking president, ie, Barry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is said list? I'd love to read it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that means what you think it means. Said oath & subsequent "scrutiny" certainly hasn't meant anything to Barry, Bill's Wife, PM Pompadour, etc. It's a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A leap you're more than willing to make, with no corroborating evidence. Nice.



Again, it's not my call. However, the voting public certainly has its own idea of what they will or will not accept from a candidate. Some people object to fat-shaming a former Miss Universe, for example, while others are okay with it. Some are fine with Hillary's e-mail scandal, while others are not. I'm not voting in any event, so mine is just an outside observer's comment. I guess we'll see what happens in a little over a month from now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

*WikiLeaks Publish 2,000 Hillary Clinton Campaign Emails*

Whistleblowing group Wikileaks have published over 2,000 emails involving Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

The emails appear to date back to 2008 to 2016 and come on the same day the U.S. State Department released 350 pages of Clinton's emails on Friday, following a court order in June.

Many of the WikiLeaks' emails unsurprisingly appear to be about campaign issues but foreign policies issues are also included in the dump, including emails on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Islamic State group, Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Cuba.

teleSUR is currently pouring over the content of the emails. 

_More information to follow_.​
(Telesur / see also CBS News)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *WikiLeaks Publish 2,000 Hillary Clinton Campaign Emails*
> 
> 
> 
> Whistleblowing group Wikileaks have published over 2,000 emails involving Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.
> 
> 
> 
> The emails appear to date back to 2008 to 2016 and come on the same day the U.S. State Department released 350 pages of Clinton's emails on Friday, following a court order in June.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the WikiLeaks' emails unsurprisingly appear to be about campaign issues but foreign policies issues are also included in the dump, including emails on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Islamic State group, Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> teleSUR is currently pouring over the content of the emails.
> 
> 
> 
> _More information to follow_.​
> 
> 
> (Telesur / see also CBS News)



Doesn't sound exactly like a blow your socks off announcement.


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## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Doesn't sound exactly like a blow your socks off announcement.


Unlikely that there will be any earth-shaking revelations, but it's all more material that the Trump campaign will attempt to use against her.


----------



## CubaMark

_Aaaaaaand then the Donald's past rears up to bite him in the ass (or win him even more votes amongst the misogynists out there):_

*Our degrading election gets the catchphrase it deserves.*

Earlier this week, Donald Trump tried to explain away his long history of outrageously misogynist comments by saying, 

“A lot of that was done for the purpose of entertainment.” ​It was obvious at the time that this was not true, and now we have conclusive proof. The Washington Post’s indefatigable David Fahrenthold has obtained a 2005 recording of Trump talking about women with Access Hollywood’s Billy Bush on a hot mic. In it, he boasts of how, when he sees a beautiful woman, he likes to start kissing her without preliminaries. 

“I don’t even wait,” Trump, said, as Bush eggs him on. 

“And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy.” ​This is how Trump talks privately, which is at once shocking and entirely unsurprising.​
(Full story at Slate)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

X










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## Dr.G.

Sadly, that is not funny, Frank. I was shocked to hear Trump's scripted non-apology last night. So very insincere. Sadly, many of his supporters don't really care about all that he has said and what he stands for. That is what scares me the most, even if he loses the election next month.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, that is not funny, Frank. I was shocked to hear Trump's scripted non-apology last night. So very insincere. Sadly, many of his supporters don't really care about all that he has said and what he stands for. That is what scares me the most, even if he loses the election next month.



I didn't post it because I thought it was funny, Marc. I posted it because it's a blunt reminder of exactly what he said and how he feels about women. People need to wake up to the reality of this idiot. There's only a month left before voting takes place and this election campaign has really brought to Kate far too many ugly dark misogynistic truths about the GOP candidate. God help America if he gets in. 


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## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> That would be the Enquirer. The NY Times is "all the news that's fit to print". It is still one of the world's finest papers.


New York Times is left-wing propaganda. They have never been a credible source of political news.

The Enquirer is sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism, not for the promotion of an specific political agenda.

Promoting FDR as anything other than a complete disaster for America is propaganda.


----------



## Rps

Frank, I would love to have been in the campaign office when this story broke. I can almost see it..... Trump trying to repair the damage...." maybe I can tell them what a great boss I was to women.......you know....like not having to be on top of um all the time to make them work......" 🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## Macfury

Hillary's use of slurs against blacks and Jews have been well corroborated by secret service staff, police and employees. Glad to see y'all are hard at work on recounting these!


----------



## Rps

heavyall said:


> New York Times is left-wing propaganda. They have never been a credible source of political news.
> 
> The Enquirer is sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism, not for the promotion of an specific political agenda.
> 
> Promoting FDR as anything other than a complete disaster for America is propaganda.


History like art is in the eyes of the beholder! FDR did what he thought was best to energise the country......once the spirit dies a people may never recover...I would say his greatness was in recognizing that point and acting on it. In this respect I guess we will agree to disagree.......your opinion is based on time, something FDR didn't have much of.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Hillary's use of slurs against blacks and Jews have been well corroborated by secret service staff, police and employees. Glad to see y'all are hard at work on recounting these!


Valid point, but I think the key issue here is that she never told said them openly and with the chance of recording them to a scandal sheet reporter.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I didn't post it because I thought it was funny, Marc. I posted it because it's a blunt reminder of exactly what he said and how he feels about women. People need to wake up to the reality of this idiot. There's only a month left before voting takes place and this election campaign has really brought to Kate far too many ugly dark misogynistic truths about the GOP candidate. God help America if he gets in.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know, Frank, that you would not see this as funny. Sadly, that is how he feels, regardless of his apologies. Yes, God help America. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> New York Times is left-wing propaganda. They have never been a credible source of political news.
> 
> The Enquirer is sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism, not for the promotion of an specific political agenda.
> 
> Promoting FDR as anything other than a complete disaster for America is propaganda.


Agree on the comment about The Enquirer ............. disagree with the other two points. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> History like art is in the eyes of the beholder! FDR did what he thought was best to energise the country......once the spirit dies a people may never recover...I would say his greatness was in recognizing that point and acting on it. In this respect I guess we will agree to disagree.......your opinion is based on time, something FDR didn't have much of.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> History like art is in the eyes of the beholder! FDR did what he thought was best to energise the country......once the spirit dies a people may never recover...I would say his greatness was in recognizing that point and acting on it. In this respect I guess we will agree to disagree.......your opinion is based on time, something FDR didn't have much of.


FDR's decisions were such that he extended the suffering of America for more than a decade. Saying that he meant well does not excuse such leadership.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Valid point, but I think the key issue here is that she never told said them openly and with the chance of recording them to a scandal sheet reporter.


Openly but not recorded.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The female supporters are dropping like flies, and so is anyone else with a brain. 



















http://people.com/politics/melania-...-offensive/?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag


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## SINC

Trouble is the only option is to elect a criminal of long standing. And THAT is the saddest thing about US politics in my lifetime.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Trouble is the only option is to elect a criminal of long standing. And THAT is the saddest thing about US politics in my lifetime.


I agree, and remain gobsmacked that this is the cream of the U.S. political crop in 2016.

Marx appears to have been correct: the seeds of the Empire's own destruction are sown within it.


----------



## CubaMark

Interesting. Republicans (finally) abandoning the Trump ship.... and saying VP choice Pence should go it alone against Hilary....

*A list of Republicans denouncing Donald Trump after 2005 comments went public*


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Interesting. Republicans (finally) abandoning the Trump ship.... and saying VP choice Pence should go it alone against Hilary....
> 
> *A list of Republicans denouncing Donald Trump after 2005 comments went public*


Seems like it is starting to snowball, but I do NOT think he will resign and will certainly not go " ... gentle into that good night."


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKaiedK9SFc

An interesting remix of this classic song.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"
By Dylan Thomas 

Do not go gentle into that good night, 
Old age should burn and rave at close of day; 
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right, 
Because their words had forked no lightning they 
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright 
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, 
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, 
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, 
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight 
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, 
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height, 
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray. 
Do not go gentle into that good night. 
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yeah, somehow that poem always applied to someone a whole lot more virtuous in my mind. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, somehow that poem always applied to someone a whole lot more virtuous in my mind.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hopefully, both men and women will join together comes election day and "grab" Trump where it will really hurt -- with their ballots. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg

This is what Trump needs to do to win the debate and the election ............. get God on his side. Who would vote against God? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0YLuFZcOe4


----------



## Dr.G.

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/784803865723965440/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Arnold Schwarzenegger Just Dealt Trump A Devastating Blow You’re Gonna Want To Read – GOPocalypse


Looks like Trump just lost Arnold.

At least Rudy G. and Chris Christie have stayed with him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FiveThirtyEight prediction of what would happen if women decided not to vote for Trump on November 8.










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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> FiveThirtyEight prediction of what would happen if women decided not to vote for Trump on November 8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That would be nice. I love the color blue. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Okay, so I'm not a Trump fan but his damage control will surface this week. Let's get real here, while he hasn't done much lately to show he has become a changed man, those tapes we eleven years ago. So, time maybe on his side. I mean, really, what type of banter would you expect on the Howard Stern Show. I think the Donald still thinks this is just a TV show he is in with him as the star. In elections deeds of the past flood back to haunt you. He needs to sit down and list all his sins......might be a good time to buy paper stock. Then say that it was eleven years ago and he was merely acting as a character on a radio show and for the media. Let's look at the history of many of the GOP defectors.....many are in the same boat. But fortunately Trump doesn't listen to advisors........


----------



## Macfury

It's certainly interesting to see the amoral suddenly "getting morality" as it suits them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Okay, so I'm not a Trump fan but his damage control will surface this week. Let's get real here, while he hasn't done much lately to show he has become a changed man, those tapes we eleven years ago. So, time maybe on his side. I mean, really, what type of banter would you expect on the Howard Stern Show. I think the Donald still thinks this is just a TV show he is in with him as the star. In elections deeds of the past flood back to haunt you. He needs to sit down and list all his sins......might be a good time to buy paper stock. Then say that it was eleven years ago and he was merely acting as a character on a radio show and for the media. Let's look at the history of many of the GOP defectors.....many are in the same boat. But fortunately Trump doesn't listen to advisors........



What evidence do you have that any of his misogynistic views have changed? I can find plenty of evidence that his treatment of women has not changed one iota since he made those remarks at the tender age of 59. The simple fact that he made the comment at all, let alone publicly (and who knows what he's said in private if he feels this is an acceptable public comment) shortly after marrying his trophy wife Melanie, a beautiful woman who also has criticized his comments, tells me much of what I need to about his treatment of both women and immigrants. His sense of entitlement is obvious. He does need access to nuclear codes with a temperament like the one he shows.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Okay, so I'm not a Trump fan but his damage control will surface this week. Let's get real here, while he hasn't done much lately to show he has become a changed man, those tapes we eleven years ago. So, time maybe on his side. I mean, really, what type of banter would you expect on the Howard Stern Show. I think the Donald still thinks this is just a TV show he is in with him as the star. In elections deeds of the past flood back to haunt you. He needs to sit down and list all his sins......might be a good time to buy paper stock. Then say that it was eleven years ago and he was merely acting as a character on a radio show and for the media. Let's look at the history of many of the GOP defectors.....many are in the same boat. But fortunately Trump doesn't listen to advisors........


Time is on his side, his supporters are on his side, and he, if he is smart, will apologize tonight and get God on his side. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's certainly interesting to see the amoral suddenly "getting morality" as it suits them.


True, as Rudy G. said again this morning, most men are unfaithful and all men use locker room talk. Jake Tapper, who was interviewing Rudy G. said that he was not in this group of men, but Rudy G. just blew him off and it was time to put this incident behind us "for the good of the country".


----------



## Dr.G.

What if Aaron Burr had missed Alexander Hamilton? - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting. Watch the various short video clips in this series.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True, as Rudy G. said again this morning, most men are unfaithful and all men use locker room talk. Jake Tapper, who was interviewing Rudy G. said that he was not in this group of men, but Rudy G. just blew him off and it was time to put this incident behind us "for the good of the country".



Rudy G's musings notwithstanding, not all men are running to become the leader of the free world. POTUS requires a certain decorum that trailer park trash talk Trump could never handle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Kami

Rps said:


> Okay, so I'm not a Trump fan but his damage control will surface this week. Let's get real here, while he hasn't done much lately to show he has become a changed man, those tapes we eleven years ago. So, time maybe on his side. I mean, really, what type of banter would you expect on the Howard Stern Show. I think the Donald still thinks this is just a TV show he is in with him as the star. In elections deeds of the past flood back to haunt you. He needs to sit down and list all his sins......might be a good time to buy paper stock. Then say that it was eleven years ago and he was merely acting as a character on a radio show and for the media. Let's look at the history of many of the GOP defectors.....many are in the same boat. But fortunately Trump doesn't listen to advisors........


The 2005 Trump statements weren't made on the Howard Stern show


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Rudy G's musings notwithstanding, not all men are running to become the leader of the free world. POTUS requires a certain decorum that trailer park trash talk Trump could never handle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An excellent point, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

The situation reminds me of an X-rated version of Andy Griffiths in "A face in the crowd".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5QCMTmLXdI


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump's best tactic tonight is to cry for about 30 seconds, say that last night he received God's forgiveness, and then demand that Anderson Cooper keep this debate focused upon the real issues that face America. If he can pull this off, he shall have saved his candidacy and still has a shot at winning. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Forty years earlier, Richard Nixon pulled off the same kind of high wire act on television that faces Trump when he was in danger of being thrown off Dwight Eisenhower's presidential ticket due to a campaign finance scandal. His appearance, which came to be known as the Checkers speech, was good enough for him to be retained as vice presidential nominee and saved his political future.

Maybe Melania should bring out a puppy for Donald to hold and to comfort him while he is crying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump's best tactic tonight is to cry for about 30 seconds, say that last night he received God's forgiveness, and then demand that Anderson Cooper keep this debate focused upon the real issues that face America. If he can pull this off, he shall have saved his candidacy and still has a shot at winning. We shall see.



Not a hope in hell. He's not that good of an actor. He'd be better off to have Alec Baldwin stand in for him. 


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----------



## Rps

Kami said:


> The 2005 Trump statements weren't made on the Howard Stern show


My comments on Trump were a collective not a singular reference. If he follows damage control, which is really controllable he may be fine. But he has a history of not listening, which is not only bad for a candidate, but bad for a leader. He can rise from this if he listens and does what he is told. There are skeletons in everyone's closet.


----------



## CubaMark

The only ones coming out on top of this election are the comedians...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not a hope in hell. He's not that good of an actor. He'd be better off to have Alec Baldwin stand in for him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I disagree, Frank. He can think about losing that $914 billion, she a few tears, hold up the puppy, and all will be well with his campaign. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> My comments on Trump were a collective not a singular reference. If he follows damage control, which is really controllable he may be fine. But he has a history of not listening, which is not only bad for a candidate, but bad for a leader. He can rise from this if he listens and does what he is told. There are skeletons in everyone's closet.



There certainly are skeletons, but this isn't that. He is basically bragging about his ability to sexually assault women and get away with it. It's like Cosby without the denial. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I disagree, Frank. He can think about losing that $914 billion, she a few tears, hold up the puppy, and all will be well with his campaign. Paix, mon ami.




Remember: if women choose not to vote for Trump...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

He is saying that women welcome his advances, not that he is assaulting them--he's not Bill Clinton for Pete's sake!



Freddie_Biff said:


> There certainly are skeletons, but this isn't that. He is basically bragging about his ability to sexually assault women and get away with it. It's like Cosby without the denial.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He is saying that women welcome his advances, not that he is assaulting them--he's not Bill Clinton for Pete's sake!



If Trump thinks women welcome his advances, with those tiny hands of his, then he's even more deluded than I thought. I guess it makes sense why he purchased the Miss Universe pageant. Easy access. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the rats continue to abandon the ship...



> But these new revelations come at a time when the White House race seems to be slipping away from Trump. He’s been unable to attract support beyond that offered by his core backers. His performance in the first debate was undisciplined and he followed it up by tangling with a beauty queen whom he shamed two decades ago for gaining weight.
> 
> READ MORE: Tic Tac says Donald Trump’s comments ‘inappropriate and unacceptable’
> 
> “There were people who were just starting to feel like this ship was going down and now this gives people a good excuse to jump off,” said Katie Packer, a Republican strategist who advised Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign and led an unsuccessful effort to prevent Trump from becoming the GOP nominee.
> 
> While some Republicans expressed astonishment and dismay over Trump’s 2005 comments, those who steadfastly refused to endorse him throughout the campaign suggested their party knew full well what they were getting with the brash real estate mogul and reality TV star.
> 
> “Nothing that has happened in the last 48 hours is surprising to me or many others,” said Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who was critical of Trump when he ran against him in the primary and has remained so for months.





















http://globalnews.ca/news/2992517/g...icans-running-for-cover-now/?campaign_id=A100


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhQD2UFCIbY[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg[/ame]

Apologize, show real remorse, cry, hug a puppy and get God on your side. All are winning elements for Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhQD2UFCIbY[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> Apologize, show real remorse, cry, hug a puppy and get God on your side. All are winning elements for Trump.



I have a bad feeling he'd be trying violate that puppy's p*ssy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I have a bad feeling he'd be trying violate that puppy's p*ssy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now, let's not get gross .............. especially if he gets God on his side.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Now, let's not get gross .............. especially if he gets God on his side.



Hey, Dr. G—he started it. At least I had the decency to hide the 'u'. 

https://youtu.be/b62McwzkrwI


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey, Dr. G—he started it. At least I had the decency to hide the 'u'.
> 
> https://youtu.be/b62McwzkrwI
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, once he gets God on his side, you know how this will end. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Louis C.K. on the Time He Met the ‘Real Trump': A ‘Miserable,' Money-Grubbing Narcissist - The Daily Beast

Interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Louis C.K. on the Time He Met the â€˜Real Trumpâ€: A â€˜Miserable,â€ Money-Grubbing Narcissist - The Daily Beast
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.



Let us pray that when Trump finds God and kisses the puppy, the criticisms of people like that loser Louis CK will be struck down and vaporized like a Ukrainian village meeting a Russian missile. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Let us pray that when Trump finds God and kisses the puppy, the criticisms of people like that loser Louis CK will be struck down and vaporized like a Ukrainian village meeting a Russian missile.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

No handshake at the onset of the debate. Interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump apologized for his "locker room banter", but said that ISIS is worse.


----------



## CubaMark

O.M.G. 13 minutes in, and Trump has already gone off the rails. He's rambling, and either didn't listen to anyone who coached him on how to handle this, or just doesn't care. Narcissism at its apogee.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> O.M.G. 13 minutes in, and Trump has already gone off the rails. He's rambling, and either didn't listen to anyone who coached him on how to handle this, or just doesn't care. Narcissism at its apogee.


Just wait ...................... Trump also wants to make Trump great again.


----------



## CubaMark

Completely off topic. The Donald should have expressed sincere contrition, but he's off on jobs and Clinton's history, and now claiming the moderator isn't treating him fairly. Wow.


----------



## Dr.G.

Now Trump goes on the attack and goes after Bill Clinton and Hillary. He is also sniffing again ............. maybe he has a cold, or is starting to cry? Where is the puppy?


----------



## CubaMark

And there goes the attack on Bill Clinton. He was "worse" than me. Oh dear.... Calling the ex-President a rapist on national tv.

The depths, the embarrassment of this spectacle...

And what is the deal with this sniffling????


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> And there goes the attack on Bill Clinton. He was "worse" than me. Oh dear.... Calling the ex-President a rapist on national tv.
> 
> The depths, the embarrassment of this spectacle...
> 
> And what is the deal with this sniffling????


A cold or crying ............... or his mic is broken.


----------



## CubaMark

Ho-ly Cow.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Ho-ly Cow.


Wait for it ................ Trump will out-Trump Clinton ............. and he might even out-Trump Trump. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Now he is going after the Canadian health care system.


----------



## CubaMark

OOOH Now Donnie has slammed Canada's health care system. It's on now, baby!


----------



## Dr.G.

.


----------



## CubaMark

...now he's putting the blame for domestic terrorism on muslim... all of 'em... who won't report on "radical islamic terror" which apparently nobody talks about.... :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> ...now he's putting the blame for domestic terrorism on muslim... all of 'em... who won't report on "radical islamic terror" which apparently nobody talks about.... :lmao:


Careful .............. Mexicans are next ......................


----------



## Dr.G.

Here is comes ..................... Mark, I hope that you are not a "drug lord"  ................... Paix, mi amigo.


----------



## CubaMark

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I haven't talked to Mike Pence in awhile... I disagree with him..... He's YOUR FRIGGIN' V-P PICK!!!!! 

Hahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No handshake at the onset of the debate. Interesting.



She needed both hands to cover her crotch, just in case.


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Now Trump goes on the attack and goes after Bill Clinton and Hillary. He is also sniffing again ............. maybe he has a cold, or is starting to cry? Where is the puppy?




Maybe he's not as healthy as he claims to be. Can't shake that darn cold.


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## Freddie_Biff

This just never gets old. You're out of your element, Donnie! 

https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q


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----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
> 
> I haven't talked to Mike Pence in awhile... I disagree with him..... He's YOUR FRIGGIN' V-P PICK!!!!!
> 
> Hahahahahahahahahaha


:


----------



## Dr.G.

freddie_biff said:


> maybe he's not as healthy as he claims to be. Can't shake that darn cold.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iphone using tapatalk



:-(


----------



## Macfury

Hillary lost that one decisively.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary lost that one decisively.




Please provide examples for your alternate view of reality. You found the "locker room banter" a convincing euphemism for "rape culture" did you? 


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----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

No. Bill Clinton is actual rape culture--not a euphemism.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please provide examples for your alternate view of reality. You found the "locker room banter" a convincing euphemism for "rape culture" did you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> No. Bill Clinton is actual rape culture--not a euphemism.


As many folks have been pointing out, Hillary Clinton is in the running* to be* President. 

William Clinton _*was*_ President.

Not the same person.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Straw man.

Hillary has been Bill's enabler since the 1970s. She is part and parcel with his sexual predation and the damage done to the reputations of those he victimized.



CubaMark said:


> As many folks have been pointing out, Hillary Clinton is in the running* to be* President.
> 
> William Clinton _*was*_ President.
> 
> Not the same person.
> 
> Hope that helps clarify things for you.
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Nailed it! 


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> As many folks have been pointing out, Hillary Clinton is in the running* to be* President.
> 
> 
> 
> William Clinton _*was*_ President.
> 
> 
> 
> Not the same person.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps clarify things for you.
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



You can't persuade an entrenched person to see the truth, Mark. Sadly, this is the case with at least 40% of Americans. But Bill! 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's mission: Make Clinton's life hell for next month - CNNPolitics.com

"When they go low, you go high." We shall have to see how low Trump will go now.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton walk in to a bar. 
Donald leans over, and with a smile on his face, says, 
"The media is really tearing you apart for that Scandal."
Hillary: "You mean my lying about Benghazi?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the massive voter fraud?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using my secret private server with classified material to Hide my Activities?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything Else?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Turning Libya into chaos?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the "moderate" terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving Iraq in chaos? "
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring citizens' ?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Threats to all of Bill's former mistresses to keep them quiet?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the INSIDER TRADING of the Tyson chicken deal I did where I invested $1,000 and the next year I got $100,000?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when Bill met with Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, just before my hearing with the FBI to cut a deal?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: " You mean the one where my IT guy at Platte River Networks asked Reddit for help to alter emails?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean where the former Haitian Senate President accused me and my foundation of asking him for bribes?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that old video of me laughing as I explain how I got the charges against that child rapist dropped by blaming the young girl for liking older men and fantasizing about them. Even though I knew the guy was guilty?
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me coughing up a giant green lunger into my drinking glass then drinking it back down?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me passing out on the curb and losing my shoe?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when I robbed Bernie Sanders of the Democratic Party Nomination by having the DNC rig the nomination process so that I would win?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean how so many people that oppose me have died in mysterious was?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Travel Gate? When seven employees of the White House Travel Office were fired so that friends of Bill and mine could take over the travel business? And when I lied under oath during the investigation by the FBI, the Department of Justice, the White House itself, the General Accounting Office, the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, and the Whitewater Independent Counsel?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The scandal where, (while I was Secretary if State), the State Department signed off on a deal to sell 20% of the USA's uranium to a Canadian corporation that the Russians bought, netting a $145 million donation from Russia to the Clinton Foundation and a $500,000 speaking gig for Bill from the Russian Investment Bank that set up the corporate buyout?. That scandal?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time I lied when I said I was under sniper fire when I got off the plane in Bosnia?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time when after I became the First Lady, I improperly requested a bunch of FBI files so I could look for blackmail material on government insiders?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time when Bill nominated Zoe Baird as Attorney General, even though we knew she hired illegal immigrants and didn't pay payroll taxes on them?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "When I got Nigeria exempted from foreign aid transparency guidelines despite evidence of corruption because they gave Bill a $700,000 in speaking fees?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time in 2009 when Honduran military forces allied with rightist lawmakers ousted democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya, and I as then-Secretary of State sided with the armed forces and fought global pressure to reinstate him?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I've got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?"
Trump: "THAT'S IT! I almost forgot about that one".


----------



## macintosh doctor

Liberal Logic :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Looks like the Grand Ol' Party's got some 'splaining to do. 










http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> Liberal Logic :lmao:



Trump didn't just make comments: he admitted to sexually assaulting women and bragged about it. And there's the allegations of rape against a girl who was 13 at the time. I can kind of see why he bought the Miss Universe pageant now. Easy access. "No one loves women more than I do."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Looks like the Grand Ol' Party's got some 'splaining to do.


Yes. They need to support their candidate, but they're so afraid of leaving the taxpayer trough, that they think they'd get a better alongside the Dem pigs if Hillary wins.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Yes. They need to support their candidate, but they're so afraid of leaving the taxpayer trough, that they think they'd get a better alongside the Dem pigs if Hillary wins.


Seems more likely that the PAC puppet masters have threatened to cut their purse strings if they don't push the Donald over a cliff.

Might have to reconsider my initial views of the Donald. If the Super Elite are that afraid of him he might just be what the country needs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Seems more likely that the PAC puppet masters have threatened to cut their purse strings if they don't push the Donald over a cliff.
> 
> Might have to reconsider my initial views of the Donald. If the Super Elite are that afraid of him he might just be what the country needs.




They're not afraid of him; they're embarrassed by him. Big difference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> They're not afraid of him; they're embarrassed by him. Big difference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. :clap:


----------



## Rps

Again, the biggest fear by the GOP elite is that "The Donald" will do a good job.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Again, the biggest fear by the GOP elite is that "The Donald" will do a good job.




Again, very true. XX)


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump didn't just make comments: he admitted to sexually assaulting women and bragged about it.."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually, he didn't admit to it.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tion/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

Another key Republican is looking ahead to the nomination in 2020.


----------



## Macfury

Ryan will not receive broad support from Republicans--he's done everything to show he is a member of the Establishment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Actually, he didn't admit to it.



You sure about that? 

https://youtu.be/qTQuj7iOOjg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Ryan will not receive broad support from Republicans--he's done everything to show he is a member of the Establishment.


Well, he is still Speaker of the House.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

macintosh doctor said:


> Liberal Logic :lmao:


(a) insofar as I am aware, the cigar insertion was consensual

(b) Trump did not make "rude comments" about a woman's vagina. He described forcibly kissing women and grabbing their genitals - actions, not words.

And that's why Trumpites don't understand anything about consent, personal space (creepy-ass orange man hovering all over the stage), or the right to say "no".


----------



## Dr.G.

Warren Buffett to Trump: 'I have paid federal income tax every year since 1944' - Oct. 10, 2016

Oops!! The Donald was wrong about Buffett and his taxes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Warren Buffett to Trump: 'I have paid federal income tax every year since 1944' - Oct. 10, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> Oops!! The Donald was wrong about Buffett and his taxes.



Yup. The same way he is wrong about just about everything else he claims to be knowledgeable about. The man is a fraud.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. The same way he is wrong about just about everything else he claims to be knowledgeable about. The man is a fraud.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True .......... a fraud and a con artist ........... not presidential material. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Dr.G. said:


> True .......... a fraud and a con artist ........... not presidential material. Paix, mon ami.


clearly a perfect candidate as both are frauds and con artists then lol


----------



## macintosh doctor

OMG i cant stop laughing.. :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Putin Cancels Campaign Event with Trump - The New Yorker

If only it were true. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## SINC

What do Donald Trump and a pumpkin have in common?

They're orange on the outside, hollow on the inside and should be tossed out in early November.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> What do Donald Trump and a pumpkin have in common?
> 
> They're orange on the outside, hollow on the inside and should be tossed out in early November.


:lmao::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## SINC

And now this:


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> And now this:


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Well, now there is less foot to put in his mouth.


----------



## Dr.G.

I found the last question of the debate interesting -- say something nice about your opponent. Clinton chose to praise Trump's children, and he chose to praise Clinton's combative spirit. Personally, I would have said the Trump should be praised for being an equal opportunity insulter if there ever was one.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trumpty Dumpty built a great wall ....
Trumpty Drumpty had a great fall.


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWmnNhtuM4[/ame]


----------



## eMacMan




----------



## Macfury

*Hillary: "I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans."*

More WilkiLeaks!



> The email, sent by Podesta on April 19, 2015, contains a discussion on what talking points Hillary should use in framing her candidacy for president in order to get a good head start.
> 
> “I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans, but I think we should use it once the first time she says I’m running for president because you and everyday Americans need a champion,” writes Podesta.
> 
> “I think if she doesn’t say it once, people will notice and say we false started in Iowa,” he concludes.
> 
> Jennifer Palmieri, Director of Communications for Hillary’s presidential campaign, agreed with Podesta’s summary, responding simply with the word, “Truth.”


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Given the options on stage, it would make more sense to engage the chair. 

I'll bet Hillary wishes she had used some witty repartee during that debate!



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'll bet Hillary wishes she had used some witty repartee during that debate!


:lmao: She should have said "I have felt the 'bern'" when Trump said that Bernie Sanders had made "a deal with the devil" by endorsing Clinton.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## FeXL

Funny, I thought he debated her just the other night...

Donald Trump faces new threat as witches and pagans plan to ‘exert mental influence’ to persuade him to quit


----------



## macintosh doctor

once again liberal logic


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


XX)


----------



## Macfury

...or I can insert some of LBJ's or Lincoln's comments about black people, or JFK's comments about the women he bedded while cheating on his wife...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




Exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly.


Trouble is you compare apples to oranges. Comparing two elected presidents is one thing. Tossing in an unelected third wannabe makes your point irrelevant. Sorry about that.

HINT: Level playing field and all that kind of thing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Trouble is you compare apples to oranges. Comparing two elected presidents is one thing. Tossing in an unelected third wannabe makes your point irrelevant. Sorry about that.
> 
> 
> 
> HINT: Level playing field and all that kind of thing.



Well, Don, I think the point was about how classy of a President Donald would be if he were elected. It would make Back to the Future 2 more than a little prophetic.


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## SINC

Sorry, but 'what ifs' don't make sense or matter. Try again if he gets elected.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Yowza! 


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## Dr.G.

"It is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to." Donald Trump

Trump's turn on his own party may seem counterproductive -- it hardly allows him to improve his chances of catching Clinton. But it does allow him the satisfaction of vengeance against party leaders he believes have never treated him fairly since his stunning outsider campaign captured the nomination earlier this year.

And by blaming Republican leaders for their failure to wholeheartedly endorse his campaign, Trump also opens up the possibility of a face-saving excuse if he crashes to defeat in November.

We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

It's probably been posted in this thread before, but man-o-man, this advert from the Democrats back in the 60s still works today. Trump is the foulmouthed Barry Goldwater of the 2016 Presidential Election...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.







:clap:


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## FeXL

So, you want to talk 60's Democrat politicians? Fine by me...

Does anyone remember anything about Jack Kennedy’s sex life?



> THROUGHOUT THE MARRIAGE, John always had girls: there were girlfriends and comfort girls; call girls and showgirls; girls on the campaign trail and girls who seemed to materialize out of thin air wherever he was. There was also the occasional wife of a friend, or the aging paramour of his randy pop, for those moments when the fancy ran to mature horseflesh or masculine competition. His penchant for prostitutes demoralized the agents assigned to protect him: “You were on the most elite assignment in the Secret Service,” the former agent Larry Newman told a television interviewer a decade ago, “and you were there watching an elevator door, because the president was inside with two hookers.”


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> So, you want to talk 60's Democrat politicians? Fine by me...
> 
> Does anyone remember anything about Jack Kennedy’s sex life?


Hey, hey, JFK--how many girls did you bed today?!!!


----------



## Macfury

Lest we forget Obama's awkward "boner" paraded to a group of CNN reporters:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Dr.G.

An interesting split is seemingly taking place between those in Congress who are Republicans, and those who are Trumpublicans. This will be bad news for Paul Ryan if the Republican Party keeps control of the House, but wants another Speaker of the House. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting split is seemingly taking place between those in Congress who are Republicans, and those who are Trumpublicans. This will be bad news for Paul Ryan if the Republican Party keeps control of the House, but wants another Speaker of the House. We shall see.


The split is between Republicans and Republican corporatists who have aligned with the Clinton corporatists.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Lest we forget Obama's awkward "boner" paraded to a group of CNN reporters:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



And this fascinates you because...?


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The split is between Republicans and Republican corporatists who have aligned with the Clinton corporatists.


Well, it will be interesting comes early next year if the Republicans retain the House who will be elected as Speaker. Paul Ryan has cast his lot against the Trumpublicans and he may suffer the fate of their wrath. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

I'm posting it because you seem fascinated with presidential candidates who show off their sexual prowess.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And this fascinates you because...?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it will be interesting comes early next year if the Republicans retain the House who will be elected as Speaker. Paul Ryan has cast his lot against the Trumpublicans and he may suffer the fate of their wrath. We shall see.



There are no "Trump[publicans." There are establishment elite represented by Hillary Clinton in both parties.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm posting it because you seem fascinated with presidential candidates who show off their sexual prowess.



Interesting. The difference is that Obama got an erection—big deal. He didn't rape a 13 year old or brag about feeing entitled to sexually assault women to a younger and somewhat impressionable man. If you don't see the difference, we'll.....I'm not sure what to say.


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## Macfury

Since your premise is inaccurate, I guess you don't know what to say.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Interesting. The difference is that Obama got an erection—big deal. He didn't rape a 13 year old or brag about feeing entitled to sexually assault women to a younger and somewhat impressionable man. If you don't see the difference, we'll.....I'm not sure what to say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There are no "Trump[publicans." There are establishment elite represented by Hillary Clinton in both parties.


Well, then who will they elect as the new Speaker of the House? Someone who supports Clinton? Supports Ryan? Supports a Trump supporter?


----------



## Dr.G.

Imagine a Trump victory for the presidency, a Republican victory in the House and a Democratic victory of 60 members in the Senate?!? New Speaker of the House? Congressional gridlock? We shall see.


----------



## SINC

'FOBs': How Hillary's State Dept. Gave Special Attention to 'Friends of Bill' After Haiti Quake - ABC News


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Since your premise is inaccurate, I guess you don't know what to say.



Which part? You don't believe Trump boasted to Billy Bush how he feels entitled to sexually assault women? Or you don't think it was possible that he raped a 13 year old?


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## CubaMark

An interesting, in-depth look at the science / art / horsepucky that are national political polls:

*How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> An interesting, in-depth look at the science / art / horsepucky that are national political polls:
> 
> 
> 
> *How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages*



Interesting. A little like the concept of delegates and superdelegates, except even more skewed. Ooooh, it makes me wonder.


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## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> An interesting, in-depth look at the science / art / horsepucky that are national political polls:
> 
> *How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages*


Reminds me of the days that Nortel dominated the Toronto Stock Exchange. Weightings for various stocks or demographic groups and/or individuals is actually nothing new. What will count is the actual vote comes election day.

My ballot has already been sent and received in Georgia, so I have voted. :clap:


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## Macfury

Based on the no evidence, I believe it's just as possible that you raped a 13-year-old girl as that Trump did so--in other words, it is not worth considering.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Which part? You don't believe Trump boasted to Billy Bush how he feels entitled to sexually assault women? Or you don't think it was possible that he raped a 13 year old?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Trump Wouldn't Be Where He Is Today If It Weren't For "Morning Joe" - The Ring of Fire Network

There were many traditional Republican candidates that did not take Trump seriously way back when, and they paid the price. In all honesty, I did not take him seriously either. Luckily, I was a Sanders supporter who is now accepting the Clinton candidacy. I have a friend who lives in Texas, was a strong Bush supporter, and is either going to write in the name of Jeb Bush rather than vote for Trump, or vote for Clinton. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Are you one of the Sanders "suckers" that the DNC is taking for fools?

Democratic officials planned to fool "self-righteous" Sanders supporters at convention - Washington Times


> In the email released Wednesday by WikiLeaks, former party official Mark Alan Siegel is seen offering a proposal to reduce the role of Democratic superdelegates in future elections. While the proposal was sold to voters as an attempt to make the presidential nominating process more of a grass-roots endeavor, the email raises serious questions about whether the entire effort was just a ploy to satisfy disgruntled Sanders backers.
> 
> “I’ve lived through many national conventions and have found that it’s critical that all delegates, especially those representing losing candidates, emerge from the convention feeling that they have won something, achieved something tangible,” Mr. Siegel wrote in the March 20 message to former Clinton chief of staff Tamera Luzzatto. *“I think this is terribly important especially with people like Bernie’s sometimes self-righteous ideologues. We want them to go home happy and enthusiastic in working their asses off for Hillary.”*
> 
> The message was then forwarded to John Podesta, the Clinton campaign chairman whose private emails have poured into public view over the past five days. It does not appear that Mr. Podesta responded.
> 
> ...
> 
> “Here’s my idea. Bernie and his people have been bitching about super delegates and the huge percentage that have come out for Hillary … Why not throw Bernie a bone and reduce the super delegates in the future” to only elected Democrats, he wrote. *“So if we ‘give’ Bernie this in the Convention’s rules committee, his people will think they’ve ‘won’ something from the Party Establishment. And it functionally doesn’t make any difference anyway.* They win. We don’t lose. Everyone is happy.”


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Are you one of the Sanders "suckers" that the DNC is taking for fools?
> 
> Democratic officials planned to fool "self-righteous" Sanders supporters at convention - Washington Times


Nope. I supported Sanders early on, sent him a contribution, and then even though I do NOT like the super delegate format, I support Clinton and voted for her.


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## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...a23e9b69b059243020a/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

Soon, the Trumpublican Party will be stronger than the Republican Party. We shall see.


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## Dr.G.

Donald Trump's poll denialism - Oct. 12, 2016

This is why NONE of the Clinton supporters should consider not going to the polls because they feel "the election has been won according to the polls."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Based on the no evidence, I believe it's just as possible that you raped a 13-year-old girl as that Trump did so--in other words, it is not worth considering.



Except that he has a lawsuit pending against him, and he has a history of sexually assaulting women. You should wake up and smell the coffee, mon ami.


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## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump's poll denialism - Oct. 12, 2016
> 
> This is why NONE of the Clinton supporters should consider not going to the polls because they feel "the election has been won according to the polls."


I doubt that Killary enjoys any more than 10% support from American voters. Trump about the same. The remaining 80% are having to decide between Killaries guaranteed commitment to starting WWIII and whatever damage a total buffoon may cause.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I doubt that Killary enjoys any more than 10% support from American voters. Trump about the same. The remaining 80% are having to decide between Killaries guaranteed commitment to starting WWIII and whatever damage a total buffoon may cause.



The FiveThirtyEight would not seem to share your assessment. 











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## Dr.G.

Kellyanne Conway: Clinton jail comments are being taken 'literally' - CNNPolitics.com

Well, this clears up that threat.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> The FiveThirtyEight would not seem to share your assessment.


How the hell can the popular vote only leave an 8% gap?  That's....





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






*Meanwhile:*


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## CubaMark




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## Dr.G.

"Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough." FDR


----------



## Dr.G.

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Etc.


If Obama had been a good leader, nobody would have cared.


If only men voted:


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If Obama had been a good leader, nobody would have cared.
> 
> 
> If only men voted:


Yes, I saw both maps. Clinton has an even bigger margin of victory if only women voted. As for me, I want to see everyone be able to vote. Paix, mon ami.


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## CubaMark




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## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If Obama had been a good leader, nobody would have cared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only men voted:



Your point being? 


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



And don't forget the smallpox blankets. 


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## Macfury

I don't want anything to do with Grandpa Bernie.


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## Macfury

Someone posted an electoral map earlier showing the result of only women voting.


Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point being?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Someone posted an electoral map earlier showing the result of only women voting.



Okay, so there's that. There's also a completely blue one that shows what would happen if no woman voted for Trump. The thing I think you're not getting is that Trump's campaign is going into total melt down mode (see newest issue of Time). He sees conspiracies everywhere he looks and he denies statements confirming sexual assault that he was bragging about only a short time ago. He has told so many lies that he has no credibility left to even defend himself. Despite all those billions he supposedly has, the man is losing respect by the minute. His brand is permanently damaged and he will likely face sexual assault trials once he loses the bid for President. The GOP are abandoning him like rats on a sinking ship. In a word, he's DONE. 


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## Macfury

Hillary and the GOP elites are part of the same establishment. He has no credibility with "progressives."



Freddie_Biff said:


> Okay, so there's that. There's also a completely blue one that shows what would happen if no woman voted for Trump. The thing I think you're not getting is that Trump's campaign is going into total melt down mode (see newest issue of Time). He sees conspiracies everywhere he looks and he denies statements confirming sexual assault that he was bragging about only a short time ago. He has told so many lies that he has no credibility left to even defend himself. Despite all those billions he supposedly has, the man is losing respect by the minute. His brand is permanently damaged and he will likely face sexual assault trials once he loses the bid for President. The GOP are abandoning him like rats on a sinking ship. In a word, he's DONE.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary and the GOP elites are part of the same establishment. He has no credibility with "progressives."



He has no credibility with a growing number of Republicans either, including Paul Ryan. You think of all of these right wing folks as "progressive," do you? 


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## CubaMark

From Doonesbury, 14 October 2016:



> _"We need a Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law. Because we've had eight years of a president -- he's an autocrat, he just does it on his own. He ignores Congress, and every single day we're slipping into anarchy."_
> -- Maine Gov. Paul LePage​





> _"I believe that Hillary Clinton will set a standard in this country that will lead to more sexual assaults against women because she will be setting an anti-biblical agenda."_
> -- former Minnesota congresswoman Michele Bachmann​


----------



## SINC

It's driving them nuts!

American Psychological Association: Election causing 'significant stress' for majority of nation - Washington Times


----------



## Macfury

No. You're a "progressive." Ryan is a globalist who receives most of his donations from out of state. He, Hillary and a slate of Republicans are all owned by the same corporate masters.



Freddie_Biff said:


> He has no credibility with a growing number of Republicans either, including Paul Ryan. You think of all of these right wing folks as "progressive," do you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> From Doonesbury, 14 October 2016:



Truly, the mind boggles. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No. You're a "progressive." Ryan is a globalist who receives most of his donations from out of state. He, Hillary and a slate of Republicans are all owned by the same corporate masters.



You sure seem to find comfort in pigeon holing people. The term "progressive conservative" must really get under your skin. Where do you see the Koch brothers in all of this, speaking of "corporate masters"?


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## Macfury

No comfort. I'm simply precise. The term "Progressive Conservative" didn't get under my skin--it was laughable.

The Koch brothers are people promoting their own views. Not sure if they have bribed anyone.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem to find comfort in pigeon holing people. The term "progressive conservative" must really get under your skin. Where do you see the Koch brothers in all of this, speaking of "corporate masters"?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> He has told so many lies that he has no credibility left to even defend himself.....
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


He and Killary have that in common.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No comfort. I'm simply precise. The term "Progressive Conservative" didn't get under my skin--it was laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> The Koch brothers are people promoting their own views. Not sure if they have bribed anyone.




There is a difference between simply precise and precisely simplistic. Paix, mon ami. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> He and Killary have that in common.



The fact checkers would disagree with you in that. Everyone lies; it's just a matter of what they lie about. Hillary still has a great deal of credibility, while Donald has almost none. He contradicts something he said just last week. Either he has Alzheimer's or he's that dumb. I'm leaning toward the latter. 


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## Macfury

Hillary campaign placing fake craigslist ads to discredit Trump:

AWFUL! Wikileaks Reveals Clinton Camp Was Posting FAKE "Sexist Trump Job Ads" On Craigslist



> From the Podesta email:
> _
> Mark and Luis – digital created a fake craigslist jobs post for women who want to apply to jobs one of Trump’s organizations. This will be a microsite and we still need to send it to Perkins. Since we will be pitching this, need your approval please._
> 
> The top Clinton advisors, including Podesta, approved of the ads.
> 
> This is the type of smear campaign Hillary has been running against Donald Trump!
> Disgusting!


----------



## Macfury

Yes. I am simply precise.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There is a difference between simply precise and precisely simplistic. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes. I am simply precise.



If you say so. I believe your label of me as progressive unfortunately reveals your simplistic mindset, from my point of view. I have progressive views but I also have conservative ones, especially regarding money management. Simplistic refers to an overly simplified black or white view of the world, and I see that in the way your categorize people. 


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## Macfury

If you like to see people **** away billions on carbon taxes, a little bit of a conservative streak can't rehabilitate you. You're simply a "progressive" who doesn't care how much money is lifted out of people's pockets--you just don't want them to waste it along the way.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you say so. I believe your label of me as progressive unfortunately reveals your simplistic mindset, from my point of view. I have progressive views but I also have conservative ones, especially regarding money management. Simplistic refers to an overly simplified black or white view of the world, and I see that in the way your categorize people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you like to see people **** away billions on carbon taxes, a little bit of a conservative streak can't rehabilitate you. You're simply a "progressive" who doesn't care how much money is lifted out of people's pockets--you just don't want them to waste it along the way.



There you go. When I did I say I was in favour of carbon taxes? If I have to pay them I'll pay them, but that doesn't mean I like them. You make too many assumptions, mon ami, and you seem to cling to your labels the way a drowning man clings to a spar of wood.


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## SINC

Say what you like about Donald Trump . . . but he's doing more than anyone else in the world to stop Donald Trump from being elected president.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Say what you like about Donald Trump . . . but he's doing more than anyone else in the world to stop Donald Trump from being elected president.



Well put! 

Here are some of the latest projections:










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## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Say what you like about Donald Trump . . . but he's doing more than anyone else in the world to stop Donald Trump from being elected president.


Good one. He is on self-destruct. :clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Ever read Animal Farm? Trump reminds me an awful lot of Napoleon (his lies shall not be questioned, comrades), who was in turn modelled on Stalin. I'm watching his slamming of "phony accusers" as I write this, and the NC crowd really reminds me of the animals cheering Napoleon on. 


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## Macfury

Been checking WikiLeaks lately? Hillary's campaign is already caught red-handed whipping up phony accusations against Trump. Keep up with the program!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ever read Animal Farm? Trump reminds me an awful lot of Napoleon (his lies shall not be questioned, comrades), who was in turn modelled on Stalin. I'm watching his slamming of "phony accusers" as I write this, and the NC crowd really reminds me of the animals cheering Napoleon on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You already supported Notley's carbon taxes in the NDP thread. The label sticks!



Freddie_Biff said:


> There you go. When I did I say I was in favour of carbon taxes? If I have to pay them I'll pay them, but that doesn't mean I like them. You make too many assumptions, mon ami, and you seem to cling to your labels the way a drowning man clings to a spar of wood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Been checking WikiLeaks lately? Hillary's campaign is already caught red-handed whipping up phony accusations against Trump. Keep up with the program!



What does this have to do with my comparison of Trump to Napoleon in Animal Farm? 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You already supported Notley's carbon taxes in the NDP thread. The label sticks!



I can understand paying carbon taxes once, but to get hit again federally is a bit much, especially after all the transfer payments Alberta has been making all these years. Perhaps the transfer payments should stop until the pipeline East is built. 


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## Macfury

Hillary's campaign has been exposed as creating deliberately phony accusations.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What does this have to do with my comparison of Trump to Napoleon in Animal Farm?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary's campaign has been exposed as creating deliberately phony accusations.




Again, same question. What does your comment have to do with the comparison to the character in Orwell's book? I mean, I'm assuming you've read Orwell's book or you wouldn't be commenting, 


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## Macfury

Stay with us Freddie! You were talking about Trump slamming "phony accusers." The Clinton campaign is actively involved in creating phony accusations.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, same question. What does your comment have to do with the comparison to the character in Orwell's book? I mean, I'm assuming you've read Orwell's book or you wouldn't be commenting,
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ever read Animal Farm? Trump reminds me an awful lot of Napoleon (his lies shall not be questioned, comrades), who was in turn modelled on Stalin. I'm watching his slamming of "phony accusers" as I write this, and the NC crowd really reminds me of the animals cheering Napoleon on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An interesting .......... and accurate, comparison. Add to this Andy Griffith in "A FAce in the Crowd".

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzCQLyNnIg[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

_Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump boasted of groping women. This opened the gates, and women came forward with claims of Trump groping them. The New York Times reported their allegations. Trump threatened to sue the Times. Times lawyer David E. McCraw responds:_

Dear Mr. Kasowitz:

I write in response to your letter of October 12, 2016 to Dean Baquet concerning your client Donald Trump, the Republican nominee for President of the United States. You write concerning our article “Two Women Say Donald Trump Touched Them Inappropriately” and label the article as “libel per se.” You ask that we “remove it from [our] website, and issue a full and immediate retraction and apology.” We decline to do so.

The essence of a libel claim, of course, is the protection of one’s reputation. Mr. Trump has bragged about this non-consensual sexual touching of women. He has bragged about intruding on beauty pageant contestants in their dressing rooms. He acquiesced to a radio host’s request to discuss Mr. Trump’s own daughter as a “piece of ass.” Multiple women not mentioned in our article have publicly come forward to report on Mr. Trump’s unwanted advances. Nothing in our article has had the slights effect on the reputation that Mr. Trump, through his own words and actions, has already created for himself.

But there is a larger and much more important point here. The women quoted in our story spoke out on an issue of national importance – indeed, as an issue that Mr. Trump himself discussed with the whole nation watching during Sunday night’s presidential debate. Our reporters diligently worked to confirm the women’s accounts. They provided readers with Mr. Trump’s response, including his forceful denial of the women’s reports. It would have been a disservice not just to our readers but to democracy itself to silence their voices. We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

Sincerely,

David E. McCraw​(BoingBoing)


----------



## Macfury

The larger issue is the Democrat-media alliance.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The larger issue is the Democrat-media alliance.


True. Thank God for freedom of the press, and responsible journalism that will stand up to Trump's vile words/actions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Stay with us Freddie! You were talking about Trump slamming "phony accusers." The Clinton campaign is actively involved in creating phony accusations.



Again, it takes you about three milliseconds to go off topic. The comment was not about Hillary, it was about Donald, whom you refuse to make any comment on. Is it perhaps because he's getting his ass kicked right now? By a bunch of girls? 


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## Macfury

You think inside the box, Biff. I don't think I have the patience to explain it right now. Obama is threatening a cyber attack against Russia for the embarrassing WikiLeaks against the Democrat party.

Besides, the newest poll shows Trump up by 2.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, it takes you about three milliseconds to go off topic. The comment was not about Hillary, it was about Donald, whom you refuse to make any comment on. Is it perhaps because he's getting his ass kicked right now? By a bunch of girls?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ever read Animal Farm? Trump reminds me an awful lot of Napoleon (his lies shall not be questioned, comrades), who was in turn modelled on Stalin. I'm watching his slamming of "phony accusers" as I write this, and the NC crowd really reminds me of the animals cheering Napoleon on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




This comment, since you seem not to recall. Please stay with the thread, Macfury, instead of using any excuse to avoid answering the actual question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Sorry, I thought your comment was not worth responding to.



Freddie_Biff said:


> This comment, since you seem not to recall. Please stay with the thread, Macfury, instead of using any excuse to avoid answering the actual question.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Sorry, I thought your comment was not worth responding to.




So you quoted it anyway and proceeded off in your own direction. Why bother quoting then? Odd. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I referred to "phony accusations." I don't think you_r Animal Farm_ reference was apt.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So you quoted it anyway and proceeded off in your own direction. Why bother quoting then? Odd.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kami

Macfury said:


> You think inside the box, Biff. I don't think I have the patience to explain it right now. Obama is threatening a cyber attack against Russia for the embarrassing WikiLeaks against the Democrat party.
> 
> Besides, the newest poll shows Trump up by 2.


I'm interested in this. Can you provide the links for the Obama info and the latest polls?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I referred to "phony accusations." I don't think you_r Animal Farm_ reference was apt.



Hard to see the forest with all the trees in the way. Perhaps the least you could do would be to explain why you don't think it was apt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Kami said:


> I'm interested in this. Can you provide the links for the Obama info and the latest polls?



Yes, I am also curious. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I referred to "phony accusations." I don't think you_r Animal Farm_ reference was apt.


Actually, I see "1984" and "It Can't Happen Here" as being more to the point.


----------



## Macfury

Kami said:


> I'm interested in this. Can you provide the links for the Obama info and the latest polls?


Poll I mentioned is here, Kami:

White House Watch - Rasmussen Reports

In the meantime, this tracking poll has updated since--statistical dead heat.

Politics - Los Angeles Times 

Cyber strike info is here:

CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia - NBC News



> The Obama administration is contemplating an unprecedented cyber covert action against Russia in retaliation for alleged Russian interference in the American presidential election, U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News.


----------



## macintosh doctor

this picture says it all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> this picture says it all.



That's pretty immature. Talk about blaming the victim. Talk about rape culture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This map would certainly seem to contradict Macfury's contention of a race that's too close to call. Buddy, you mispredicted the Alberta and Federal Canadian elections last year. Are you going for a hat trick?











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's pretty immature. Talk about blaming the victim. Talk about rape culture.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


agreed - Those Clinton's rape and then pay off the women wild Bill touches..


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, I see "1984" and "It Can't Happen Here" as being more to the point.



Yeah, I was referring more to the part where Napoleon addresses the animals, telling lie after lie after lie. He is being viciously attacked, comrades. He also does exactly the things he accuses others of doing. I think the subtext in the comment about how Hillary should be in jail is actually a veiled reference to the sexual assault he knows he is guilty of, so he projects it onto someone else. What this election campaign has really done is to reveal how Trump is an unbalanced and dangerous predator. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> agreed - Those Clinton's rape and then pay off the women wild Bill touches..



Again: Bill is not running for President, and Hillary did not molest anyone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I was referring more to the part where Napoleon addresses the animals, telling lie after lie after lie. He is being viciously attacked, comrades. He also does exactly the things he accuses others of doing. I think the subtext in the comment about how Hillary should be in jail is actually a veiled reference to the sexual assault he knows he is guilty of, so he projects it onto someone else. What this election campaign has really done is to reveal how Trump is an unbalanced and dangerous predator.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, then that is an apt comparison. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump has brought the Republican party to the brink - The Globe and Mail

An interesting article.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump’s “no concession” stand: He and his hate-filled followers will not accept a Clinton victory and that’s when things get truly chilling - Salon.com

This is scary. The sane Trump supporters, like Macfury, might not like the outcome of the election should Clinton win, but they won't be part of goon squads prior to and after the election. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Again, the point is that Hillary destroyed the reputations of the women Bill molested and was his prime enabler. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again: Bill is not running for President, and Hillary did not molest anyone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kami

Macfury said:


> Poll I mentioned is here, Kami:
> 
> White House Watch - Rasmussen Reports
> 
> In the meantime, this tracking poll has updated since--statistical dead heat.
> 
> Politics - Los Angeles Times
> 
> Cyber strike info is here:
> 
> CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia - NBC News



Thank you. The cyber strike article is very interesting for its potential impact(s)


----------



## Kami

This map from the LA Times provides a state by state projection of electoral college votes

We&apos;ve updated our electoral map, as Trump&apos;s fortunes dwindle - LA Times

If you click on the battleground states then you can add who wins the state (actually you can click on any state to change the winner of the state).


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump calls for drug test ahead of next debate - CNNPolitics.com

He has got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump calls for drug test ahead of next debate - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> He has got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!



We often criticize most harshly in others that which we know are our biggest faults. (*sniff*sniff*)

Or to put it another way, the best defence is a good offence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> We often criticize most harshly in others that which we know are our biggest faults. (*sniff*sniff*)
> 
> Or to put it another way, the best defence is a good offence.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Karma ......................


----------



## Dr.G.

There have been two father then son presidencies, but this might be the first husband then wife presidency. Let us hope ...............


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> There have been two father then son presidencies, but this might be the first husband then wife presidency. Let us hope ...............



Might? Given that there's never been a female President, nay it is. Trump is done like dinner.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Might? Given that there's never been a female President, nay it is. Trump is done like dinner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


WE shall see, Frank. Do NOT get over confident. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

*Inline images*

Anyone been having problems with inline images? I see most posts offering only a link that must be clicked--and then just winds up with a spinning beachball of death.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Anyone been having problems with inline images? I see most posts offering only a link that must be clicked--and then just winds up with a spinning beachball of death.


I was experiencing this same issue using Sierra and also issues with uploading my website. I reverted to El Capitan to solve the latter issue and it also solved the former. Just saying.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rudy Giuliani on rigged election: 'Dead people generally vote for Democrats' - CNNPolitics.com

Well what did Giuliani expect? Most of those who have died lived through the Great Depression and have good memories of how FDR helped millions upon millions of Americans then, as well as guiding America through most of WWII. Of course the dead would again vote Democratic.


----------



## Macfury

Even in death, they seem to have no idea how the Depression was extended through FDR's incompetence. He helped them with one hand, while burying them with the other.



Dr.G. said:


> Rudy Giuliani on rigged election: 'Dead people generally vote for Democrats' - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Well what did Giuliani expect? Most of those who have died lived through the Great Depression and have good memories of how FDR helped millions upon millions of Americans then, as well as guiding America through most of WWII. Of course the dead would again vote Democratic.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Even in death, they seem to have no idea how the Depression was extended through FDR's incompetence. He helped them with one hand, while burying them with the other.


Well, we shall have to disagree here once again, Macfury. He helped them due to his competence and the abilities of his "brain trust", and those who were buried died with some dignity. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, we shall have to disagree here once again, Macfury. He helped them due to his competence and the abilities of his "brain trust", and those who were buried died with some dignity. Paix, mon ami.


His price-fixing brain trust? I remember them


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> His price-fixing brain trust? I remember them


Good. If you remember them you will see how they helped bring the US out of the Great Depression and saved millions upon millions of people from further suffering. Welcome to the club. :clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You folks are awfully silent about WIKI Leaks and the exposed Clinton/Wall Street alliance.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You folks are awfully silent about WIKI Leaks and the exposed Clinton/Wall Street alliance.


Not much of an "alliance", but I wonder how Bernie Sanders feels now? He kept asking her to reveal her views from these speeches ........... and it seems as if she went easy on them.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Not much of an "alliance", but I wonder how Bernie Sanders feels now? He kept asking her to reveal her views from these speeches ........... and it seems as if she went easy on them.


Easy? She says they passed Dodd-Frank as an exercise in public relations while she continued to support Wall Street. Bernie knows exactly what those speeches said now, but he's still in the tank for Hill.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Easy? She says they passed Dodd-Frank as an exercise in public relations while she continued to support Wall Street. Bernie knows exactly what those speeches said now, but he's still in the tank for Hill.


Well, hopefully he will help her get elected, despite what is now known. Trump is coming unhinged these days .............. rigged elections, drug tests, allegations of sexual "advances" ........... on and on and on it goes. Personally, I wish Pres. Obama was able to run once again. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Trump is correct. Clinton and he media are creating false allegations against him--and Wiki Leaks proves this definitively.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, hopefully he will help her get elected, despite what is now known. Trump is coming unhinged these days .............. rigged elections, drug tests, allegations of sexual "advances" ........... on and on and on it goes. Personally, I wish Pres. Obama was able to run once again. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump is correct. Clinton and he media are creating false allegations against him--and Wiki Leaks proves this definitively.


Trump is correct???????? He is slowly slipping into an alternate reality zone. The media is rigged because they mainly endorse Clinton ........ just like most of the media endorsed Reagan in 1980 and 84.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump is correct???????? He is slowly slipping into an alternate reality zone. The media is rigged because they mainly endorse Clinton ........ just like most of the media endorsed Reagan in 1980 and 84.


No, The WIKI Leaks show definitively that "friendlies" at major newspapers and news services have been working with the Clinton campaign for years to create favourable coverage--including timing of articles, placement of articles, subject of articles and content of articles--with veto power given to the Clinton team over various phrases. This inlcudes Associated Press, NYT, Boston Globe, Politico and others.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> No, The WIKI Leaks show definitively that "friendlies" at major newspapers and news services have been working with the Clinton campaign for years to create favourable coverage--including timing of articles, placement of articles, subject of articles and content of articles--with veto power given to the Clinton team over various phrases. This inlcudes Associated Press, NYT, Boston Globe, Politico and others.


Sure, it's a given. And you know what? Even with all of that collusion, criminality and corruption... Clinton is still the lesser of two evils. At least we know what we're getting. She's a known quantity. Trump is a loose cannon with a evangelical right-wingnut for his VP pick. Should Trump's attention span lead him to give up being President (officially or practically), Pence could become America's next disaster.

I don't like either of the Presidential candidates, but I know which one I'm less afraid of.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not afraid of either of them--but I know that Trump could do a better job.



CubaMark said:


> Sure, it's a given. And you know what? Even with all of that collusion, criminality and corruption... Clinton is still the lesser of two evils. At least we know what we're getting. She's a known quantity. Trump is a loose cannon with a evangelical right-wingnut for his VP pick. Should Trump's attention span lead him to give up being President (officially or practically), Pence could become America's next disaster.
> 
> I don't like either of the Presidential candidates, but I know which one I'm less afraid of.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm not afraid of either of them--but I know that Trump could do a better job.



A better job of what exactly? Being butt hurt?











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----------



## Macfury

Your recycled Tweets aren't going to convince anyone, Freddie.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your recycled Tweets aren't going to convince anyone, Freddie.



Only everyone EXCEPT you, Mac. Trump will get creamed in less than a month from now. I'd love to hear your reasons for believing he won't. And remember: you've already lost two election predictions in 2015.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Tim Kaine curses his own daughter and calls her a "pig." Warning: foul language:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Tim Kaine curses his own daughter and calls her a "pig." Warning: foul language:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Ha ha! You don't even recognize Alec Baldwin's voice when you hear it. Kind of appropriate that he portrays Trump so well.

Incidentally, what's your source on this one? Rebel News Media again? 

https://youtu.be/0G45DOOm80c


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Just wanted to see whether having that associated with Tim Kaine raised any comments. You caught it before anyone else could say anything, so good on you!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ha ha! You don't even recognize Alec Baldwin's voice when you hear it. Kind of appropriate that he portrays Trump so well.
> 
> Incidentally, what's your source on this one? Rebel News Media again?
> 
> https://youtu.be/0G45DOOm80c


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Only everyone EXCEPT you, Mac. Trump will get creamed in less than a month from now. I'd love to hear your reasons for believing he won't. And remember: you've already lost two election predictions in 2015.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, I've worked many an election and after all of Trump's land mines he is only 4 to 7 points down, amazing! This election is all about the evil of the two lessors. So I agree Pence is a problem, as is Kaine. But we have 3 weeks left and The Donald still appears to be hanging on to his base. So, whoever gets the base out will win. I've seen this before where the poll leaders base does not show up to vote as they think it is over already and their vote is not needed.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> He is slowly slipping into an alternate reality zone.


<snort> 

Clinton Campaign to Accuse Trump of Collusion with Russia in Email Hacks



> *In the granddaddy of all conspiracy theories, they are about to accuse Donald Trump of working with Vladimir Putin to hack into Democratic email accounts.*
> 
> They refuse to offer a shred of evidence -- except that Trump isn't forceful enough in condemning the presumed Russian hacking of our political system. In promoting this idiocy, the Clinton campaign is comparing the leaks to Watergate -- a sure bet to get Democratic Party rank-and-file juices flowing.


M'bold.

'Nuf said, as far as alternate realities are concerned.


----------



## FeXL

Shocker: Clinton Suffers Memory Loss 21 Times Answering 25 Questions from Judicial Watch



> So we’re going to have multiple news cycles dissecting her lies under oath now, right? Sure.
> 
> _Hillary Clinton said under oath in a court filing Thursday that she can’t recall key details about her use of a private email server or she refused to answer questions about it posed by a conservative legal group._
> 
> [...]
> 
> In her responses, Clinton used some variation of “does not recall” at least 21 times.​


Related:

Clinton 'does not recall' ordering destruction of emails from personal server in testimony



> Clinton and her legal team objected to all or part of 18 of the 25 questions put to her by Judicial Watch. She also filed eight separate general objections to the process under which the questions were being asked.


Maybe, just maybe, if her memory is that bad, this is yet one more medical reason why she shouldn't be running...


----------



## macintosh doctor

this is what makes the democratic party so wrong.
basically treating voters like mindless zombies..


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just wanted to see whether having that associated with Tim Kaine raised any comments. You caught it before anyone else could say anything, so good on you!



I remember it well because I found the whole situation repulsive. Somehow Alec managed to become likeable again despite this rather ugly chapter in his relationship with his daughter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank, I've worked many an election and after all of Trump's land mines he is only 4 to 7 points down, amazing! This election is all about the evil of the two lessors. So I agree Pence is a problem, as is Kaine. But we have 3 weeks left and The Donald still appears to be hanging on to his base. So, whoever gets the base out will win. I've seen this before where the poll leaders base does not show up to vote as they think it is over already and their vote is not needed.



Respectfully, I see it differently. Trump's bass, inbred though they are, needed to expand in order to gain enough votes to win. That's not happening. Complacency could indeed harm Hillary, but with all the boners Trump's been pulling lately (pun intentional) I think Hillary's supporters are more motivated than ever to get out the vote and keep the Don out of the White House. I often wonder whether the Donald wasn't the Clintons' secret weapon all along. We shall see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Respectfully, I see it differently. Trump's bass, inbred though they are, needed to expand in order to gain enough votes to win.


OH GOD! Are you saying that the musicians are lining up behind Trump now? All is lost! Woe is me!











 :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Well, she got her wish & he's going to hand her butt to her on a tin platter...

Hillary Clinton Told Goldman Sachs She Wished Successful Businesspeople Would Run For Office, Because They Can’t Be Bought



> WikiLeaks released yet another batch of Podesta emails, and this one contained a beautiful little nugget from one of Hillary Clinton’s top secret Wall Street speeches. Nearly three years ago, she gave a speech to Goldman Sachs and said that she wished successful businesspeople would run for office. You know. Because they can’t be bought.
> 
> ...
> 
> So, three years ago, she basically said that someone– like a Donald Trump– should run because he/she can’t be bought. *Is she also implying that she can be bought? (I know, I know. Stupid question. We already know the answer to that.)*


M'bold.

BTW, jes' lovin' this latest batch of Podesta emails...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Podesta emails, did you know that CNN is the gatekeeper thereof?

CNN Attempts to Scare Viewers – Says It’s Illegal to Read Wikileaks Podesta Emails



> *CNN won’t report on the scandalous content and criminal behavior in the Wikileaks Podesta emails.
> 
> And they don’t want you to read the damning emails either.*
> Chris Cuomo told viewers the CNN cranks will read the emails for them and report out what’s on them.
> 
> _Cuomo: Remember, it’s illegal to possess these stolen documents. It’s different for the media. So everything you learn about this you are learning from us._​


Bold from the link.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ya know, Chris, I think I'll read 'em for myself, thankyouverymuch...

Further on CNN's cranio-rectal inversion.:

CNN Says Trump Endangering Reporters' Lives For Not Denouncing 'CNN Sucks' Chant



> CNN began by playing a clip of a Donald Trump rally yesterday where the crowd began chanting, “CNN sucks” repeatedly. The CNN panel didn’t like that one bit and blamed Trump for not telling the crowd to quit it. Hosts Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota, along with guests Brian Stelter and Bill Carter suggested that Trump was endangering reporters' lives, painting a nightmare scenario of Trump supporters violently attacking reporters. *“I’m telling you, something is going to happen. Something is going to happen,”* Cuomo solemnly warned.


Links' bold.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yep. Trump's gonna win...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot & one more reason why it's a wonderful thing presidential terms are only 8 years long...

More Than 1 Million to Lose Obamacare Plans as Insurers Quit

(Or, if you like your plan, you're screwed anyways)



> *A growing number of people in Obamacare are finding out their health insurance plans will disappear from the program next year, forcing them to find new coverage even as options shrink and prices rise.*
> 
> At least 1.4 million people in 32 states will lose the Obamacare plan they have now, according to state officials contacted by Bloomberg. That’s largely caused by Aetna Inc., UnitedHealth Group Inc. and some state or regional insurers quitting the law’s markets for individual coverage.


M'bold.

Wait...I thought the whole point of this was to insure more people & for less money? You don't think a Dem lied!!! :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

More from the Podesta files & brought to you from the department of "Doncha Hate Ethnic Sounding Terrorist Names?"...

Podesta Email: It Would Have Been ‘Better’ If San Bernardino Shooter Had A Stereotypical White Name



> After Syed Farook was identified as one of the San Bernardino terrorists, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman expressed dismay that Farook had an ethnic-sounding name rather than a stereotypical white one, newly released emails show.
> 
> “Better if a guy named Sayeed Farouk [sic] was reporting that a guy named Christopher Hayes was the shooter,” Podesta wrote in a Dec. 2, 2015 email to Karen Finney, a Clinton campaign spokeswoman.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Clinton Foundation & one more reason why Bill's Wife should be prosecuted.

BOMBSHELL: Clinton Foundation Donors Expected ‘Benefits In Return For Gifts’



> An independent “governance review” conducted by a prominent law firm that specializes in philanthropic issues concluded in December 2010 that the Clinton Foundation had a weak, rubber stamp board of directors and that many of its donors had “an expectation of a quid pro quo benefits in return for gifts.”
> 
> The blistering review — made public Thursday by WikiLeaks — described a tax-exempt public foundation with none of the independent oversight required under federal charity law. The Clinton Foundation reported $187 million in net assets in 2011.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> OH GOD! Are you saying that the musicians are lining up behind Trump now? All is lost! Woe is me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:




Ha! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Frank, I see it differently....Hilary is not really putting it away. It's not that Trump is loosing, it's that she is not gaining.....proof, only 4 to 7 points after all the crap that the Donald has dispensed......she is not a lock on this as yet. Remember about 25% of voter make up their mind the week of, and about 10% the day of.......lots of time left. But, I certainly hope that Trump does not win, and of course with all his rants on the election being rigged, the U.S. may not want him to loose either. Guns in the streets if the Dems steal the election from him................his latest attribution.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ha!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just wondering.....would Trump be considered a stand up bass because he doesn't pussy foot around?


----------



## Macfury

Politico reveals it was running is news service for the benefit of the Clinton campaign:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Just wondering.....would Trump be considered a stand up bass because he doesn't pussy foot around?



I see what you did there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Politico reveals it was running is news service for the benefit of the Clinton campaign:




Yup, pretty convincing. Right down to the courier mono-spaced font—very difficult to fake. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

The Dems haven't denied the e-mails are accurate. They are just blaming the Russians for releasing them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, pretty convincing. Right down to the courier mono-spaced font—very difficult to fake.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Democrat operatives admit to being paid by DNC to agitate violence at Trump events:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Democrat operatives admit to being paid by DNC to agitate violence at Trump events:


I wouldn't be at all surprised if the content of this turns out to be somewhat factual... but these guys really need to ditch the half-lit face in a dark backroom video. They're really trying too hard to give us X-files willies here. But then... I guess the conspiracy loonies will lap that up....


----------



## Dr.G.

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/s...82885844385793

A powerful ad.


----------



## Kami

Dr. G, the link isn't working


----------



## Macfury

This one made me laugh:


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

C'mon CM--without a starting frame, that YouTube video gives me no reason to click on it.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> C'mon CM--without a starting frame, that YouTube video gives me no reason to click on it.


Sorry - stupid VBulletin software and it's handling of Youtube videos....

What happens if I just paste the link:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe8KdLH3mE[/ame]


----------



## SINC

Works just fine and thanks for posting that. I had forgotten that scene, but it fits completely.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Sorry - stupid VBulletin software and it's handling of Youtube videos....
> 
> 
> 
> What happens if I just paste the link:
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe8KdLH3mE[/ame]




Much better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Trump is right. Democrats are guilty of massive, organized voter fraud:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Sorry - stupid VBulletin software and it's handling of Youtube videos....
> 
> What happens if I just paste the link:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe8KdLH3mE


Obviously, a Bernie Sanders voter who is now voting for Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

Irish bookies already paying out $1M to people who bet Hillary Clinton would win - Business - CBC News

NOT a good sign, especially if you are a Clinton supporter.


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting ......... and disturbing articles.

What if Trump never concedes the election: 'Rigged' talk raises vexing scenario | The Chronicle Herald

Trump echoes the ravings of an anti-Semite - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting ......... and disturbing articles.
> 
> 
> 
> What if Trump never concedes the election: 'Rigged' talk raises vexing scenario | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> 
> 
> Trump echoes the ravings of an anti-Semite - The Globe and Mail















> NEW YORK—Assuring the nation he would work quickly and tirelessly to carry out his agenda, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump reportedly issued a press statement Monday mapping out his first 100 days of not conceding the 2016 election. “I will get to work on day one questioning the final vote tally, and I promise that I will not rest during my first week until I’ve discredited Hillary Clinton’s victory with repeated accusations that she orchestrated a widespread conspiracy to steal the election,” read the message from Trump in part, which went on to note that the candidate had already assembled a team of top legal experts to help him transition to a full-time schedule of filing lawsuits against state and local election boards and major media outlets. “Within my first 10 days, I will introduce a comprehensive plan for my disgruntled supporters to march on the White House, and by day 30, I will submit a formal petition demanding Clinton’s immediate removal from office. In addition, throughout the entire 100-day period, I vow to keep the American people fully updated on my progress by continuing to appear on radio and television programs, commenting on current affairs and criticizing Clinton’s history of misconduct as if I’m still in the running to be president.” Trump added that while the first 100 days will be an important measure of his success, his vision goes far beyond those initial three months, and he looks forward to fiercely disputing the legitimacy of a Clinton presidency for the next four years.


http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-maps-out-plan-first-100-days-not-conceding-e-54230



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----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...emind-america-that-its-still-a-great-country/

It's nice to be appreciated.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump Maps Out Plan For First 100 Days Of Not Conceding Election - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, FDR's first 100 days in office are a shining example of the greatness that a US president can bring forth for the American people.

Maybe Trump's 100 days can symbolize all that is wrong with him ........... and to help America see how lucky they are not to have voted him into the office of the presidency. 

The First 100 Days - The Legacy of F.D.R. - TIME

The First 100 Days: Franklin Roosevelt Pioneered the 100-Day Concept | Politics | US News


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Lest we forget...




























http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...e&tse_id=INF_7225c95094d611e6bd3ee3ca348530db


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Ben & Jerry are split over whether to support Hillary Clinton - Jun. 9, 2016

Good ice cream ............. go with Bernie.  Now, go with Clinton.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Ben & Jerry are split over whether to support Hillary Clinton - Jun. 9, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> Good ice cream ............. go with Bernie.  Now, go with Clinton.



Vaya Con Dios. Go with God. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Vaya Con Dios. Go with God.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Only the farmers have won."

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_dFfooyZpA[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

*Michael Moore quietly made a Donald Trump movie. "TrumpLand" opens this week*










Filmmaker Michael Moore has an “October surprise” for America: A stealthily and quickly made movie about the presidential campaign of GOP nominee and accused serial sexual predator Donald Trump.

* * *​
“Michael Moore in TrumpLand” premieres at New York’s IFC Center at 9:30 PM Tuesday (tonight).

The synopsis:

_See the film Ohio Republicans tried to shut down. Oscar-winner Michael Moore dives right into hostile territory with his daring and hilarious one-man show, deep in the heart of TrumpLand in the weeks before the 2016 election.
_​
* * *​
_He’s so against Trump, in fact, that he’s even announced he’s breaking his vow to never vote for Hillary Clinton. (He’d previously made that promise in reaction to her support for the Iraq War.) “For the sake of preventing a proto-fascist from becoming our commander-in-chief, I’m breaking that promise,” he wrote on his site. “She’s a hawk, to the right of Obama. But Trump’s psycho finger will be on The Button, and that is that.”​_
Michael Moore in TrumpLand hits theaters around the U.S. on October 19. Election Day is Tuesday, November 8.​
(BoingBoing)


----------



## Rps

Frank just wondering what GOP stands for today..... Grand Old Pervert or Grab Our Pussy........


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank just wondering what GOP stands for today..... Grand Old Pervert or Grab Our Pussy........



Ha ha! Good question. 

Grumpy Old Pricks


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## SINC

Chad gets it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gknw4caZguA


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Chad gets it . . .
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gknw4caZguA


Good one. He was a Bernie Sanders supporter .......... as were many of us. Such is Life.


----------



## Dr.G.

Tonight's debate should be VERY interesting, and important for both candidates. Hopefully, they will both take the high road and talk about real issues. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Tonight's debate should be VERY interesting, and important for both candidates. Hopefully, they will both take the high road and talk about real issues. We shall see.



I hope Trump's head explodes from all the pressure. All the things he's accused the Clintons of—lying, infidelity, drug use—turn out to be things he excels at. Sort of a giveaway if you're looking for Trump's real weaknesses. It is better to be silent a be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt, and Trump opens his mouth A LOT. Tonight he puts the final nail in his own coffin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I hope Trump's head explodes from all the pressure. All the things he's accused the Clintons of—lying, infidelity, drug use—turn out to be things he excels at. Sort of a giveaway if you're looking for Trump's real weaknesses. It is better to be silent a be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt, and Trump opens his mouth A LOT. Tonight he puts the final nail in his own coffin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. I still say that Trump should start to cry, ask God for forgiveness, say that God has forgiven him ............... and then tells everyone that God wants him to be president.


----------



## CubaMark

Whoa! Did you hear? Trump has a secret weapon in the debate with Hillary Clinton tonight! 





It's................







Malik Obama!


Uh..... *WTF?*


:yikes:  :lmao:


----------



## macintosh doctor

nailed it


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Whoa! Did you hear? Trump has a secret weapon in the debate with Hillary Clinton tonight!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malik Obama!
> 
> 
> Uh..... *WTF?*
> 
> 
> :yikes:  :lmao:


Not much of a secret weapon since Pres. Obama will not be there tonight. Now, if he brought in Monica L. ....................... that would be a BIG weapon.


----------



## Macfury

Chris Wallace wins!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Chris Wallace wins!



Chris Wallace is a very good moderator, he keeps the debaters on track, and he makes sure that the debate stays civil. This is what good moderators are able to do. Many forums have good moderators for times when posters become somewhat nasty to each other. That's all I'm saying. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Chris Wallace is a very good moderator, he keeps the debaters on track, and he makes sure that the debate stays civil. This is what good moderators are able to do. Many forums have good moderators for times when posters become somewhat nasty to each other. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. I was impressed with his work, impressed with Clinton, and surprised that Trump did not come off of the rails this one last time.


----------



## Dr.G.

Top to bottom, this was Trump's most consistent and best debate. But, it wasn't a good debate for him. Not at all. His signature moment — and the defining moment of the entire debate — came when he refused to say he would concede if the election results showed he had lost. Trump's "I'll-just-wait-and-see "answer was a NOT what we want to hear from a candidate for the presidency.

Donald Trump's calculated, crazy debate gamble - The Globe and Mail


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Many forums have good moderators for times when posters become somewhat nasty to each other. That's all I'm saying.


That's how it will be for you in heaven!


----------



## SINC

If you support Clinton, you might ask yourself why after listening to Lou Dobbs.

Dobbs: The Clinton cartel emits the foulest stench of all


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's how it will be for you in heaven!




Ummm...no. That's how it is already on the many other forums I frequent. People don't go so far as to get nasty to each other when they can no longer be objective or civil to each other. Basic decorum, my friend. Heaven here on earth. 


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## Macfury

Heaven for snowflakes!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm...no. That's how it is already on the many other forums I frequent. People don't go so far as to get nasty to each other when they can no longer be objective or civil to each other. Basic decorum, my friend. Heaven here on earth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Heaven for snowflakes!



Can you please find another word? Unless you want me to use "heaven for assholes" in response.


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## Macfury

Go for it!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Can you please find another word? Unless you want me to use "heaven for assholes" in response.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm...no. That's how it is already on the many other forums I frequent. People don't go so far as to get nasty to each other when they can no longer be objective or civil to each other. Basic decorum, my friend. Heaven here on earth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Pacem in Terras" (Peace on Earth) -- Pope John XXIII


----------



## Dr.G.

If there is a heaven, I believe that heaven is big enough for all of us -- so, why not get along better down here? Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, is it technically possible for someone to be VP for many terms?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> If there is a heaven, I believe that heaven is big enough for all of us -- so, why not get along better down here? Paix, mes amis.



Exactly. And as Macfury already mentioned, the moderator of the debate was the real winner yesterday. This is why I find it puzzling when members of this forum do not see the benefit of moderators, particularly when they help establish boundaries. I thought Chris did an exceptional job last night compared to the moderators of the first two Presidential debates.


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## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Dr. G, is it technically possible for someone to be VP for many terms?



Wouldn't they have to be selected by the new Pres candidate as a running mate after the eight years are up? Otherwise they'd sort of be tied to their President. However, Al Gore served two terms as VP before winning the 2000 election for President, even though he conceded. 


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## Macfury

You can be a VP as many times as you want, provided you have not already been president twice.


----------



## Macfury

> "I am very troubled by a lot of the voter suppression stories that have been reported... Whenever you have allegations of those kind, that is a matter the entire country ought to take seriously."


Al Gore


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, is it technically possible for someone to be VP for many terms?


Originally there was no term limit for the office of President or Vice President. The 22nd Amendment imposed limits on the Presidency but remained silent on the Vice Presidency. There is no term limit there. 

Incidentally, no one in US history has served two full Vice Presidential terms and then two full Presidential terms. There was one person who was elected twice to each office, but he didn't finish his second Presidential term. That was Richard Nixon.

The 22nd Amendment, ratified in 1951, created guidelines for how long an individual can serve as president, limiting a commander in chief to two full terms, or up to 10 years if a vice president had assumed the presidency and held the top office for less than two years of his or her predecessor’s term.

Constitutional scholars are split on the idea of a president who has served two full terms becoming a VP, in that if he/she had to assume office, it would be beyond their two full terms as specified in the 22nd amendment. Most agree that the Supreme Court would have to rule on this should it ever happen and be challenged in court.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Chris Wallace is a very good moderator, he keeps the debaters on track, and he makes sure that the debate stays civil.


I think this take on Wallace's performance is pretty much on point:

*Chris Wallace did everything he could to help Trump... and still couldn't.*

I know some have praised Wallace, but that’s only true if you grade him on a curve (like how some grade Trump’s debates) and don’t think about what he actually said, what he didn’t bring up, and how he framed things and/or tried to throw help to Trump. 

There’s so much a good moderator could have asked about which impact people’s lives, instead of this litany of conservative wedge issues and false attacks on Democratic economic proposals.

The crazy thing is Hillary is so good — and Trump so bad — that even Fox News’ framing couldn’t save Trump.​
(Daily KOS)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I think this take on Wallace's performance is pretty much on point:
> 
> *Chris Wallace did everything he could to help Trump... and still couldn't.*
> 
> I know some have praised Wallace, but that’s only true if you grade him on a curve (like how some grade Trump’s debates) and don’t think about what he actually said, what he didn’t bring up, and how he framed things and/or tried to throw help to Trump.
> 
> There’s so much a good moderator could have asked about which impact people’s lives, instead of this litany of conservative wedge issues and false attacks on Democratic economic proposals.
> 
> The crazy thing is Hillary is so good — and Trump so bad — that even Fox News’ framing couldn’t save Trump.​
> (Daily KOS)


I thought that Chris Wallace was a fair moderator. Trump was Trump and there was nothing that was going to stop that train once it left the station.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump: 'I will totally accept' election results 'if i win' - CNNPolitics.com

"Delaware, Ohio (CNN) — Donald Trump said Thursday he will accept the results of next month's election if he wins, a caveat that threatens to cast unprecedented doubt on the legitimacy of the electoral process."

".... if he wins...."?????????????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I think this take on Wallace's performance is pretty much on point:
> 
> 
> 
> *Chris Wallace did everything he could to help Trump... and still couldn't.*
> 
> 
> 
> I know some have praised Wallace, but that’s only true if you grade him on a curve (like how some grade Trump’s debates) and don’t think about what he actually said, what he didn’t bring up, and how he framed things and/or tried to throw help to Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> There’s so much a good moderator could have asked about which impact people’s lives, instead of this litany of conservative wedge issues and false attacks on Democratic economic proposals.
> 
> 
> 
> The crazy thing is Hillary is so good — and Trump so bad — that even Fox News’ framing couldn’t save Trump.​
> 
> 
> (Daily KOS)



Good point. Being that FOX News has traditionally been a Republican supporting media outlet (Trump's remarks about the biased liberal media notwithstanding), and that even with the moderator throwing him all kinds of softballs, he still couldn't connect even once, I think this debate was more than fair to the Tangerine one. If he couldn't handle the pressure without getting all bitchy, then he gets what he deserves. I was more impressed with Chris Wallace for actually making an attempt to interact with the candidates.


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump: 'I will totally accept' election results 'if i win' - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Delaware, Ohio (CNN) — Donald Trump said Thursday he will accept the results of next month's election if he wins, a caveat that threatens to cast unprecedented doubt on the legitimacy of the electoral process."
> 
> 
> 
> ".... if he wins...."?????????????????



What a poor sport. What a big friggin' baby. He cannot possibly lose, the Tangerine One, so the process has to be rigged. The man is seriously delusional, and what's worse, about half of the country is okay with that.


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## Macfury

With the recent exposure of widespread Democrat voter fraud with fingers pointing straight to the oval office, Trump's stance makes perfect sense.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> What a poor sport. What a big friggin' baby. He cannot possibly lose, the Tangerine One, so the process has to be rigged. The man is seriously delusional, and what's worse, about half of the country is okay with that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sadly, this is not a joking matter. This is why there really needs to be a big mandate for Clinton. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> With the recent exposure of widespread Democrat voter fraud with fingers pointing straight to the oval office, Trump's stance makes perfect sense.



Examples?


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Examples?


Bob Creamer who has been paid directly by the Clinton campaign admitted on hidden video that he has masterminded massive voter fraud, busing "voters" from precinct to precinct and other chicanery. Creamer has visited the White House hundreds of times and met with Obama directly more than 40 times. He admits on camera exactly how the Clinton campaign pays him through a series of transactions through various associations.

I don't post a 15-minute video lightly. Watch the first five minutes and tell me what you think.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Supreme Court's Election Day 'Doomsday scenario' - CNNPolitics.com

As if the 2000 results were not enough.


----------



## Macfury

I remember--Gore wouldn't face up to his loss and said the election had been rigged against him.



Dr.G. said:


> As if the 2000 results were not enough.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I remember--Gore wouldn't face up to his loss and said the election had been rigged against him.



Not quite. Actually, Gore had won the election both by popular vote and by total number of delegates, but Florida was a toss up. If you recall, the vote recount was stopped and the benefit of the doubt was granted George W. Bush—not fairly, I might add. 


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## Macfury

There was no fraud and Bush won fairly according to the laws of the United States. A presidential victory is an electoral college victory--nothing else. Gore refused to accept the results of the election on election day.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not quite. Actually, Gore had won the election both by popular vote and by total number of delegates, but Florida was a toss up. If you recall, the vote recount was stopped and the benefit of the doubt was granted George W. Bush—not fairly, I might add.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There was no fraud and Bush won fairly according to the laws of the United States. A presidential victory is an electoral college victory--nothing else. Gore refused to accept the results of the election on election day.



Dimpled chads, pregnant chads, hangs big chads, uncounted votes—you don't remember any of this? In a close election, which Florida was, there is an automatic recount. There was a stop on the recount just in case Bush might lose, it was that close. If Trump vs. Clinton is that close, the same thing would happen. But it won't, since Trump is going to get creamed. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gwillikers

lol


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

A note from George Sr. to Bill. Times have changed.










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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Bob Creamer who has been paid directly by the Clinton campaign admitted on hidden video that he has masterminded massive voter fraud, busing "voters" from precinct to precinct and other chicanery. Creamer has visited the White House hundreds of times and met with Obama directly more than 40 times. He admits on camera exactly how the Clinton campaign pays him through a series of transactions through various associations.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't post a 15-minute video lightly. Watch the first five minutes and tell me what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Sorry but I could only take about four minutes of that. Seems like tabloid journalism and not very convincing in my eyes. What was it that you wanted me to notice? 


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----------



## Macfury

The recount was stopped because there was no standardized criteria used to recount the votes. Once recounters attempted to "divine voter intention" even though they failed to properly complete their vote, it became a farce.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Dimpled chads, pregnant chads, hangs big chads, uncounted votes—you don't remember any of this? In a close election, which Florida was, there is an automatic recount. There was a stop on the recount just in case Bush might lose, it was that close. If Trump vs. Clinton is that close, the same thing would happen. But it won't, since Trump is going to get creamed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> A note from George Sr. to Bill. Times have changed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup they have - after Clintons lost attempting to steal the election for Gore,
they left and trashed the white house and stole items.


----------



## Macfury

What did you see in the four minutes you were able to bring yourself to look at it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry but I could only take about four minutes of that. Seems like tabloid journalism and not very convincing in my eyes. What was it that you wanted me to notice?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What did you see in the four minutes you were able to bring yourself to look at it?



As I've said, tabloid journalism that didn't persuade me about anything. The Clintons may be stacking the deck, that's not so surprising. I would imagine Trump to be doing the same—anything to try to defeat that nasty woman. But if your man is so good, why
is he so worried about losing?


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## Macfury

Thanks for admitting it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The Clintons may be stacking the deck, that's not so surprising.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/crusoedachshund/?fref=nf

An interesting pseudo debate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hilarious hashtag on how Trump interprets classic literature

:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

The Facebook Live stream that could presage Trump TV - Oct. 20, 2016

Very interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Clinton and Trump trade political barbs for jokes at fundraising dinner - World - CBC News

Watched all of both candidates trading "jokes".


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Have you heard of #TrumpBookReport?

https://www.bustle.com/articles/190...y-nerdom-political-commentary-at-their-finest












> The final debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is over, and the results are in — at least for some Twitter users, who were so stunned by Trump's seeming ignorance about basically everything that they took to an accidentally created hashtag to poke fun at the Republican candidate. The hashtag #TrumpBookReport shows just how clueless The Donald really seems to be, and how social media users have managed to revel in his occasionally horrific candidacy.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Have you heard of #TrumpBookReport?
> 
> https://www.bustle.com/articles/190...y-nerdom-political-commentary-at-their-finest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hilarious hashtag on how Trump interprets classic literature :lmao::clap:


----------



## Macfury

George should have sent that at the beginning of the campaign. He rode in on Reagan's coat tails and barely raised his pulse campaigning the second time. Bill was an establishment pick, just as much as he was, so no hard feelings as long as the cash remains in the family, eh?

Of course, Bill never felt lonely in the White House--he had a steady stream of interns to fend off the solitude.



Freddie_Biff said:


> A note from George Sr. to Bill. Times have changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

So... what were Donald and Hillary up to the night after the debate?

For your viewing pleasure.... The Al Smith charity dinner:

Hillary Clinton

Donald Trump

I have to say, this was the most _human_ Donald has ever appeared during this campaign... if only he could have kept it in "roasting" territory rather than "insulting" territory at the end.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> So... what were Donald and Hillary up to the night after the debate?
> 
> For your viewing pleasure.... The Al Smith charity dinner:
> 
> Hillary Clinton
> 
> Donald Trump
> 
> I have to say, this was the most _human_ Donald has ever appeared during this campaign... if only he could have kept it in "roasting" territory rather than "insulting" territory at the end.


True. No one has ever been booed before he was due to some of his remarks. Clinton's closing comments were great.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary's campaign has made some nasty comments about Catholics in WIKILeaks, It was gracious of them to receive her after that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> So... what were Donald and Hillary up to the night after the debate?
> 
> 
> 
> For your viewing pleasure.... The Al Smith charity dinner:
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say, this was the most _human_ Donald has ever appeared during this campaign... if only he could have kept it in "roasting" territory rather than "insulting" territory at the end.



Those horrified expressions on the faces of the people sitting nearby tho. I thought took it fairly well.


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary's campaign has made some nasty comments about Catholics in WIKILeaks, It was gracious of them to receive her after that.



You know that Wikileaks is not an actual reputable news organization, right? 


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----------



## Macfury

It's not a news organization--it's a source of leaked information, which has proven remarkably accurate over its long period of service. Only people who think out of the box will recognize this--if you need to see it on CBC to believe it, then this is not for you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know that Wikileaks is not an actual reputable news organization, right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Those horrified expressions on the faces of the people sitting nearby tho. I thought took it fairly well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, especially the man to Trump's right. When he used the word "corrupt" he looked shocked.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump refuses to be politically correct .............. and to make sure he can accomplish this, he refuses to be correct.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump refuses to be politically correct .............. and to make sure he can accomplish this, he refuses to be correct.


The guy must have been in the bag for Hill--anyone else would know she's corrupt.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The guy must have been in the bag for Hill--anyone else would know she's corrupt.


What guy? Trump???????? Going for Clinton??????????? You might be correct, since he does not seem to be doing what he needs to win. Maybe the talk of his wanting his own TV network that will make Fox News seem moderate is correct. We shall see.


----------



## screature

To me it seems that it is a matter for the US to choose the lesser of two evils and to me the choice is clear.

This statement will change no one's opinion and I can't vote but I still do care as the results of the US election will have a direct impact on Canada and the rest of the world.

Hillary is far from pure but at least she has a grasp on international politics which Trump simply does not, if only for that reason alone I hope Hillary becomes the next President of the USA.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> To me it seems that it is a matter for the US to choose the lesser of two evils and to me the choice is clear.
> 
> This statement will change no one's opinion and I can't vote but I still do care as the results of the US election will have a direct impact on Canada and the rest of the world.
> 
> Hillary is far from pure but at least she has a grasp on international politics which Trump simply does not, if only for that reason alone I hope Hillary becomes the next President of the USA.


A valid rationale, screature. I was an early supporter of Bernie Sanders, but he did not win the nomination, so I cast my vote for Clinton in the State of Georgia. She might not win the state, but will hopefully win the election. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

You won't have Trump to kick around anymore? - CNN.com

An interesting article.


----------



## SINC

Methinks Billary will complete the total downfall of America. Not that Trump would be any better. A lose lose election either way.


----------



## Macfury

A vote for Hillary essentially completes a consolidation of power between the government, the media and large corporations. A vote for Trump may at least slow that down.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, this is it. The Trump campaign has announced that The Donald will be making THE major speech of his campaign, with a rally at Gettysburg, PA this afternoon. It is being touted by his spokespersons as being VERY significant, in that the location has been specifically selected, as has been the topic. He will speak of what he intends to do in his first 100 days in office, attempting to bring to mind the dynamic and needed programs of FDR's first 100 days in office that brought about some of the most significant social programs ever enacted in American history, which helped millions upon millions of Americans. As well, while he will not be on the exact spot where Lincoln gave his Gettysburg address, it will be a speech that promised to unite America in a manner that will bring to mind Lincoln's call to all to be "highly resolved" to remember what those who fought in the Civil War "gave their last full measure of devotion". We shall see.

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. 

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. 

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

The First 100 Days - The Legacy of F.D.R. - TIME


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A vote for Hillary essentially completes a consolidation of power between the government, the media and large corporations. A vote for Trump may at least slow that down.



A vote for Donald is a vote to let the inmates run the asylum. The man is nowhere near qualified to run anything, including his own company. He's just lucky he's had talented people covering his ass. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, this is it. The Trump campaign has announced that The Donald will be making THE major speech of his campaign, with a rally at Gettysburg, PA this afternoon. It is being touted by his spokespersons as being VERY significant, in that the location has been specifically selected, as has been the topic. He will speak of what he intends to do in his first 100 days in office, attempting to bring to mind the dynamic and needed programs of FDR's first 100 days in office that brought about some of the most significant social programs ever enacted in American history, which helped millions upon millions of Americans. As well, while he will not be on the exact spot where Lincoln gave his Gettysburg address, it will be a speech that promised to unite America in a manner that will bring to mind Lincoln's call to all to be "highly resolved" to remember what those who fought in the Civil War "gave their last full measure of devotion". We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
> 
> 
> 
> But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
> 
> 
> 
> The First 100 Days - The Legacy of F.D.R. - TIME



I didn't realize that Time was so good at satire.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I didn't realize that Time was so good at satire.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Rps

What does Donald Trump say when he can't find his Viagara........"the erection is rigged"


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> What does Donald Trump say when he can't find his Viagara........"the erection is rigged"


:lmao:


----------



## Rps

Say Dr. G, how do you know when you've read one of Donald Trump's books? It starts at Chapter 11.


----------



## Rps

What does Donald Trump and a pornstar have in common.......they're both experts in switching positions in front of a camera.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Say Dr. G, how do you know when you've read one of Donald Trump's books? It starts at Chapter 11.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> What does Donald Trump and a pornstar have in common.......they're both experts in switching positions in front of a camera.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

So true:


----------



## macintosh doctor

well since she swallows it might be worth it LOL [ we all know she is experienced LOL ]
“If you vote for Hillary Clinton, I will give you a blowjob. OK?” the 58-year-old Rebel Heart singer told an audience at New York’s Madison Square Garden Tuesday night. “I’m really good. I’m not a douche, and I’m not a tool. I take my time, I have a lot of eye contact, and I do swallow.”

Madonna Offers Oral Sex in Exchange for Hillary Clinton Votes


----------



## Macfury

I think Bernie has a slightly better chance of eliciting a vote with the base using that approach than Madonna!



macintosh doctor said:


> well since she swallows it might be worth it LOL [ we all know she is experienced LOL ]
> “If you vote for Hillary Clinton, I will give you a blowjob. OK?” the 58-year-old Rebel Heart singer told an audience at New York’s Madison Square Garden Tuesday night. “I’m really good. I’m not a douche, and I’m not a tool. I take my time, I have a lot of eye contact, and I do swallow.”
> 
> Madonna Offers Oral Sex in Exchange for Hillary Clinton Votes


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> I think Bernie has a slightly better chance of eliciting a vote with the base using that approach than Madonna!


Bernie is more experienced at anal sex. since he has been screwing citizens for years - career politician


----------



## CubaMark

macintosh doctor said:


> Bernie is more experienced at anal sex. since he has been screwing citizens for years - career politician


You win for Most Offensive and Plain Dumb Statement of the Week!

Here's your trophy:


----------



## Macfury

CM, Bernie has been pushing massive tax increases for decades. 

And surely you see nothing wrong with anal sex. Why does its mere mention make you respond with something so juvenile?


----------



## Rps

i guess moderation is the key....even to moderation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You win for Most Offensive and Plain Dumb Statement of the Week!
> 
> 
> 
> Here's your trophy:



No doubt. If you're a doctor, Mac Doctor, you may really need to get a few things checked out. Something ain't firing quite right. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> CM, Bernie has been pushing massive tax increases for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> And surely you see nothing wrong with anal sex. Why does its mere mention make you respond with something so juvenile?



Seriously? It was presented as an insult. Read the post again. It's offensive, not a heathy commentary on sexual practices. We must moderate ourselves, remember? Some comments cross the line and you know it. 


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## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csn5dhrctS4


----------



## FeXL

macintosh doctor said:


> well since she swallows it might be worth it LOL


Ain't no BJ on this planet worth a vote for Bill's Wife. Eight minutes of what may or may not be pleasurable vs 8 years of hell? Plus, the decades needed to clean up the fallout (from the latter, not the former)?

Not. Even. Close.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csn5dhrctS4


Wow! An impressive performance by Stephen. I couldn't have done that....! (now, if you asked for Stan Rogers, I'd nail it).


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Wow! An impressive performance by Stephen. I couldn't have done that....! (now, if you asked for Stan Rogers, I'd nail it).


:clap::clap:

As they say, you can take the boy out of NS, but not NS out of the boy.


----------



## Macfury

Why is anal sex insulting? Check your privilege!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Seriously? It was presented as an insult. Read the post again. It's offensive, not a heathy commentary on sexual practices. We must moderate ourselves, remember? Some comments cross the line and you know it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> Seriously? It was presented as an insult. Read the post again. It's offensive, not a heathy commentary on sexual practices. We must moderate ourselves, remember? Some comments cross the line and you know it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In our province which is so open to all and pushing the practice of anal sex on our children in grade 4 as a healthier alternative to conventional sex.. so if that is offensive to you, you better write your local liberal MP, requesting any reference of anal sex inappropriate. So please relish in the new Liberalism you so voted for.

also the comparison of anal sex with Bernie sanders is more than deserving as he has rammed himself into the taxpayers with the over extraction of our morals and finances, like our government has.


----------



## Dr.G.

Socrates was one nasty hombre.


----------



## CubaMark

macintosh doctor said:


> ....Bernie sanders is more than deserving as he has rammed himself into the taxpayers with the over extraction of our morals and finances....


 Oh please. Senator Sanders is incapable of "ramming himself" into the taxpayers. 

It's like Trump's broken record line about Clinton being in politics for 30+ years and not having tied up the tax loopholes that enable him to evade, and a myriad of other things she should have solved by now. As if Sanders or Clinton or anyone else can exercise their will without cooperation from their fellow politicians on both sides of the House and Senate. 

It's a ridiculous claim, and perhaps is indicative of the mindset of Trump should he take office, expecting that he can *rule by fiat*?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why is anal sex insulting? Check your privilege!



I didn't say it was insulting. I said it was presented as an insult. Check your reading comprehension. It was not presented as a compliment. Really, Macfury, you argue about nothing sometimes. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Ain't no BJ on this planet worth a vote for Bill's Wife. Eight minutes of what may or may not be pleasurable vs 8 years of hell? Plus, the decades needed to clean up the fallout (from the latter, not the former)?
> 
> 
> 
> Not. Even. Close.



Eight years? Sounds like you're pretty confident she'll be voted in twice.


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Eight years? Sounds like you're pretty confident she'll be voted in twice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let us hope that this speculation is correct. Then, this would pave the way for Michelle Obama to run 2024. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

The New Yorker Endorses Hillary Clinton

An interesting and reasonable article.


----------



## CubaMark

"Hillary Clinton's" line during the Saturday Night Live opening, I thought, was right on the nose:

"Between the two of us, who do you trust to be your President? The Republican, or Donald Trump?"



:lmao: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> "Hillary Clinton's" line during the Saturday Night Live opening, I thought, was right on the nose:
> 
> "Between the two of us, who do you trust to be your President? The Republican, or Donald Trump?"
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao: :clap:


:lmao::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Is it presented as an insult? What's wrong with anal sex and taxation? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> I didn't say it was insulting. I said it was presented as an insult. Check your reading comprehension. It was not presented as a compliment. Really, Macfury, you argue about nothing sometimes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Is it presented as an insult? What's wrong with anal sex and taxation?


Canadian comedy picture, stamp from Canada


----------



## SINC

Don't count The Donald out yet:

Trump leading in poll that has best track record over last three elections | New York Post


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Don't count The Donald out yet:
> 
> Trump leading in poll that has best track record over last three elections | New York Post


True. Overconfidence on the part of Democratic voters could still influence this election. It is vital for all who support Clinton to go out and vote. Paix, mon ami.

For the record, I voted three weeks ago by absentee ballot.


----------



## macintosh doctor

https://friendsofsyria.wordpress.co...ed-its-worse-than-anyone-could-have-imagined/


----------



## CubaMark

macintosh doctor said:


> https://friendsofsyria.wordpress.co...ed-its-worse-than-anyone-could-have-imagined/


Sorry, I don't have the same "Hillary Hatred" filter installed as you (I dislike her for many other reasons, none of which I suspect you would agree with). Care to elaborate on what the furious indignation is about here?

This is what the "Friends of Syria" page you linked to alleges:



> *Today Wikileaks released what is, by far, the most devastating leak of the entire campaign. This makes Trump’s dirty talk video looks like an episode of Barney and Friends.
> 
> Even though when Trump called Hillary the ‘founder’ of ISIS he was telling the truth and 100% accurate, the media has never stopped ripping him apart over it.
> 
> Today the media is forced to eat their hats because the newest batch of leaked emails show Hillary, in her own words, admitting to doing just that, funding and running ISIS.*


*Um.... what?*

The Clinton / Podesta email exchange is presented by Wikileaks, cited by this anti-Hillary group, with the passage below highlighted (Full text of point #4 provided for context). What exactly is this supposed to prove? And why bring Barney into this? :yikes:

_*4*. Armed with proper equipment, and working with U.S. advisors, the Peshmerga can attack the ISIL with a coordinated assault supported from the air. This effort will come as a surprise to the ISIL, whose leaders believe we will always stop with targeted bombing, and weaken them both in Iraq and inside of Syria. At the same time we should return to plans to provide the FSA, or some group of moderate forces, with equipment that will allow them to deal with a weakened ISIL, and stepped up operations against the Syrian regime. This entire effort should be done with a low profile, avoiding the massive traditional military operations that are at best temporary solutions. While this military/para-military operation is moving forward, we need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and other radical Sunni groups in the region. This effort will be enhanced by the stepped up commitment in the KRG. The Qataris and Saudis will be put in a position of balancing policy between their ongoing competition to dominate the Sunni world and the consequences of serious U.S. pressure. By the same token, the threat of similar, realistic U.S. operations will serve to assist moderate forces in Libya, Lebanon, and even Jordan, where insurgents are increasingly fascinated by the ISIL success in Iraq._​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Sorry, I don't have the same "Hillary Hatred" filter installed as you (I dislike her for many other reasons, none of which I suspect you would agree with). Care to elaborate on what the furious indignation is about here?
> 
> 
> 
> This is what the "Friends of Syria" page you linked to alleges:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Um.... what?*
> 
> 
> 
> The Clinton / Podesta email exchange is presented by Wikileaks, cited by this anti-Hillary group, with the passage below highlighted (Full text of point #4 provided for context). What exactly is this supposed to prove? And why bring Barney into this? :yikes:
> 
> 
> 
> _*4*. Armed with proper equipment, and working with U.S. advisors, the Peshmerga can attack the ISIL with a coordinated assault supported from the air. This effort will come as a surprise to the ISIL, whose leaders believe we will always stop with targeted bombing, and weaken them both in Iraq and inside of Syria. At the same time we should return to plans to provide the FSA, or some group of moderate forces, with equipment that will allow them to deal with a weakened ISIL, and stepped up operations against the Syrian regime. This entire effort should be done with a low profile, avoiding the massive traditional military operations that are at best temporary solutions. While this military/para-military operation is moving forward, we need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and other radical Sunni groups in the region. This effort will be enhanced by the stepped up commitment in the KRG. The Qataris and Saudis will be put in a position of balancing policy between their ongoing competition to dominate the Sunni world and the consequences of serious U.S. pressure. By the same token, the threat of similar, realistic U.S. operations will serve to assist moderate forces in Libya, Lebanon, and even Jordan, where insurgents are increasingly fascinated by the ISIL success in Iraq._​



Haters gonna hate. And if Trumpites can't find facts to support their hatred, why they'll just invent a reason.


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----------



## FeXL

If she gets in once, you can bet your sweet patootie that, by hook or crook, she'll get in twice...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Eight years? Sounds like you're pretty confident she'll be voted in twice.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> If she gets in once, you can bet your sweet patootie that, by hook or crook, she'll get in twice...


:clap::clap::clap: Now, that is positive thinking. Clinton for 8 years, Michelle Obama for 8 years, and then, we shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> If she gets in once, you can bet your sweet patootie that, by hook or crook, she'll get in twice...



I guess why she's Crooked Hillary, eh? Still better than Hump Trump. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/TheWoodcreekFaction/videos/10154722687047164/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ

Who knew The Donald had so much talent. He's hired!!!!!!!


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> :clap::clap::clap: Now, that is positive thinking. Clinton for 8 years, Michelle Obama for 8 years, and then, we shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Dr.G., there will be a civil war long before that happens. Mark my words...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G., there will be a civil war long before that happens. Mark my words...


Only if The Donald leads the charge. I worry more about some of his followers than I do Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump insults take up two full pages in The New York Times - Oct. 24, 2016

Yikes. This list is longer than Pres. Nixon's famous "hit list".


----------



## FeXL

So, this is interesting...

Assassination Attempt On Assange? "Unknown Man" Scales Wall of Ecuador Embassy at 2AM



> Social media users are in a panic after WikiLeaks said an unknown man had climbed the Ecuadorian embassy in London where Julian Assange has been staying for four years. Users suggested that it was probably an assassination attempt, "ordered by Clinton."
> 
> “…At 2:47am an unknown man scaled the side wall [and the] window of the Ecuadorian embassy in London; fled after being caught by security,” a statement from WikiLeaks said early Monday morning.


Now, before everybody on the left goes screaming, conspiracy!, consider this:

Bill's Wife, _et al_ are seriously pissed at Assange for his Wikileaks reveals. They even managed to get his internet shut down at the Ecuadorian embassy in London. However, despite what the MSM will reveal to the public, much damage has been done.

And, of course, State Department is lying about it:

State Dept. Lied: Officials Tell NBC News U.S. Did Pressure Ecuador to Silence Assange



> _Quiet pressure from the U.S. government played a role in Ecuador's decision to block WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange from using the internet at Ecuador's London embassy, U.S. officials told NBC News.
> 
> "It was a bit of an eviction notice," said a senior intelligence official.
> 
> Ecuador's government said Tuesday it had partly restricted internet access for Assange, the founder of anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks, who has lived in the South American country's London embassy for more than four years. A source familiar with the situation says the Ecuadoran government has been frustrated with Assange and his presence at the embassy in London for months and has been considering how best to proceed._​


Then, you have this from 2010:

Hillary Clinton considered drone attack on Julian Assange - report



> “_Can’t we just drone this guy?_” Clinton asked, according to unidentified state department sources.


Italics from the link.

Not such a stretch anymore.

Oh, & don't even bother quoting Snopes to me, boyz. They'll lie, twist, cheat & steal just as much as any of the Dems to cover up the left's backside...


----------



## FeXL

And, just a couple links about voter fraud...

Democrat Operative Admits: We’ve Been Rigging Elections “for 50 Years”



> “It’s a very easy thing for Republicans to say, ‘Well, they’re bussing people in.’ Well, you know what? We’ve been bussing people in to deal with you f*****g a******s for 50 years and we’re not going to stop now." So said Scott Foval, until recently the national field director for left-wing group Americans United for Change. The people he described so vulgarly are Republicans, and by “deal with” he was referring to committing vote fraud.
> 
> *You know, that crime Democrats claim doesn’t exist.*


‘Calibration error’ changes GOP votes to Dem in Illinois county



> Early voting in Illinois got off to a rocky start Monday, as votes being cast for Republican candidates were transformed into votes for Democrats.
> 
> Republican state representative candidate Jim Moynihan went to vote Monday at the Schaumburg Public Library.
> 
> “I tried to cast a vote for myself and instead it cast the vote for my opponent,” Moynihan said. “You could imagine my surprise as the same thing happened with a number of races when I tried to vote for a Republican and the machine registered a vote for a Democrat.”


Fox News Is Reporting Widespread Voter Fraud, Obama Says It’s Dangerous to Report It



> Barack Obama took his views to an extreme level, saying it’s dangerous to talk about voter fraud because it will undermine our democracy. *Substitute ‘democracy’ with ‘big government’.*


Not rigged, thrown



> For years here in Virginia I have observed massive fraud – in the registration process, in the absentee ballot casting, in the battle to remove photo IDs, in the voting at the polls. Recent studies have shown thousands of illegal alien registrations in Virginia, and hundreds of voters also casting votes in other states (college kids the worst offenders). My own identity (SS No.) was stolen last year and used to get a fraudulent tax refund and voting. I have written in the past about the massive fraud here with illegal alien voting. For over a decade the SEIU and its local affiliates have gone through the extensive illegal alien community here in Virginia fraudulently registering illegals who then vote in large numbers, usually in early voting or absentee ballots, because there are no poll watchers to challenge them. They even brag about it.
> 
> In 2006, George Allen was beaten by illegal alien vote margins, giving the Senate to the Democrats. Terry McAuliffe is governor because of a narrow margin granted him by illegal alien voting – and a Trump-like NeverCuccinelli movement by establishment Republicans (sound familiar? National Review? Power Line?). We lost two consecutive Attorney General elections by several hundred votes, with illegal aliens the difference. Warner defeated Gillespie for Senate in 2014 by a small vote difference provided by illegals. And my friend the local former Fairfax County Democrat head brags about it when we have coffee together.
> 
> So why should Trump say that he will blindly accept the results when Virginia fraud is multiplied 51 times across the country? When Podesta talks about getting illegal aliens to vote with drivers licenses? When Project Veritas shows gloating Democrat operatives talking about registering illegals?


Wow: NYC election official claims voter fraud in minority neighborhoods in new James O’Keefe video



> Alan Schulkin’s not a nobody. New York City has only 10 commissioners on the Board of Elections, two from each borough. He’s the Democratic commissioner from Manhattan. He knows what he’s talking about, and he’s confirming every right-wing suspicion about voter fraud. Yes, voters get bused around to vote multiple times (by local pols, he implies); yes, of course it’s irresponsible not to require something as simple as a state-issued ID to vote; yes, even some voters who do have IDs are suspect because the state doesn’t rigorously demand proof of identity when applying for the ID card. The guy goes so far as to admit that Democratic corruption on voting has made him question his party affiliation.


Colorado Voter Fraud: Slew of Ballots Cast by the Dead Spark Investigation



> _A CBS affiliate’s evidence of voter fraud in Colorado has sparked an immediate investigation by Secretary of State Wayne Williams.
> 
> Election sleuthing by Brian Maass of KCNC-TV in Denver exposed multiple instances in recent years where dead Coloradans were still voting. A dead World War II veteran named John Grosso voted in a 2006 primary election, and a woman named Sara Sosa who died in 2009 cast ballots in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Mrs. Sosa’s husband Miguel died in 2008, but a vote was cast in his name one year later.
> 
> “This is the kind of thing you hear rumored, joked about in Chicago, that kind of thing,” Mr. Maasssaid during a Thursday evening broadcast. “Tonight, that changes. We did find voter fraud in Colorado that essentially waters down your vote.”_​


And, finally, not just the right knows the system is rigged...

As Obama Ridicules Trump Over Voter Fraud, He Warned Of ‘Rigged Elections’ In 2008



> President Barack Obama said this week “no serious person” would believe the presidential election could be rigged. The President, at a joint press conference with Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, went on to attack GOP nominee Donald Trump by saying, “I’ve never seen in my lifetime or in modern political history any presidential candidate trying to discredit the elections and the election process before votes have even taken place.” I*n 2008, however, then candidate Obama was singing a very different tune.*


Curious, that...

Not Just Trump Thinks the System is Rigged...



> Pretty much every major Democrat has said that the system is rigged, but now President Obama is telling Trump to stop whining about it. Seems like an unfair standard! How ridiculous is this?!?


All bold mine.


----------



## macintosh doctor

https://www.conservativeoutfitters....hillary-clinton-personally-order-trump-attack


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, this is interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Social media users are in a panic after WikiLeaks said an unknown man had climbed the Ecuadorian embassy in London where Julian Assange has been staying for four years. Users suggested that it was probably an assassination attempt, "ordered by Clinton."
Click to expand...

"social media users are in a panic.... Users suggested...." - so, people like you, on an internet forum, or on Facebook, Twitter, etc... in other words,_ real authorities on the topic_!

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

All too true.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> "social media users are in a panic.... Users suggested...." - so, people like you, on an internet forum, or on Facebook, Twitter, etc... in other words,_ real authorities on the topic_!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



Those high opinion/low information voters have to come from somewhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, that was definitely the point of the story.

I can lead the horse to water, CM. I can't make him drink...



CubaMark said:


> "social media users are in a panic.... Users suggested...." -


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Obama health plan hit by double-digit premium hikes



> Premiums will go up sharply next year under President Barack Obama's health care law, and many consumers will be down to just one insurer, the administration confirmed Monday. That's sure to stoke another "Obamacare" controversy days before a presidential election.
> 
> Before taxpayer-provided subsidies, premiums for a midlevel benchmark plan will increase an average of 25 percent across the 39 states served by the federally run online market, according to a report from the Department of Health and Human Services. Some states will see much bigger jumps, others less.
> 
> Moreover, about 1 in 5 consumers will have plans only from a single insurer to pick from, after major national carriers such as UnitedHealth Group, Humana and Aetna scaled back their roles.


Beautiful...


----------



## FeXL

So, recall that "non-ransom" of palettes of cash that weren't delivered to Iran on the freighter a few months back?

Yeah, they're back for more...

Iran Seeking ‘Many Billions of Dollars’ in Ransom to Free U.S.



> Iran is seeking “many billions of dollars” in payments from the United States in exchange for the release of several U.S. hostages still being detained in Iran, according to reports by Iran’s state-controlled press that are reigniting debate over the Obama administration’s decision earlier this year to pay Iran $1.7 billion in cash.
> 
> Senior Iranian officials, including the country’s president, have been floating the possibility of further payments from the United States for months. Since the White House agreed to pay Tehran $1.7 billion in cash earlier this year as part of a deal bound up in the release of American hostages, Iran has captured several more U.S. citizens.


Related:

Iran Demands “Many Billions” In New Hostage Ransoms



> The Obama administration could indeed benefit from some remedial reading of Kipling. When they are done learning the lesson of this poem, they ought also to consider “The Gods of the Copybook Headings.” It is a similar lesson in basic truths about life that, for more than a hundred years, progressive men of Obama’s class and education have refused to learn in spite of uniformly disastrous and bloody results, the sort of results we are now seeing in Syria and western Iraq, and not only there but as far away as the Philippines.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/o...nl_art=4&nlid=70670328&ref=headline&te=1&_r=0

An interesting article.


----------



## FeXL

How about a few on Bill's Wife?

Conflict of interest? What conflict of interest...

Clinton ally gave $500K to wife of FBI agent on email probe



> Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, a longtime Clinton confidant, helped steer $675,000 to the election campaign of the wife of an FBI official who went on to lead the probe into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email system, according to a report.


WIKILEAKS: Hillary Got $12 Million for Clinton Charity As Quid Pro Quo For Morocco Meeting

More Pay For Play?



> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arranged a $12 million donation from Moroccan King Mohammed VI to her family’s charity in 2014 in return for the Clinton Global Initiative hosting its international meeting in the North African Muslim nation, according to an email made public Thursday by Wikileaks.


Related:

Huma on Hillary’s $12M Morocco fiasco: ‘She created this mess and she knows it’



> Hillary Clinton solicited a $12 million donation from a government that her State Department considered corrupt, then realized the “mess” it would cause in her presidential run, a newly leaked *email reveals.


On double standards:

Hillary Clinton Claimed Bush Was Never Legitimately Elected



> Since the media is doing its selective outrage, this morning, let's take a walk back in the wayback machine to see the double standard on legitimacy.
> 
> Hillary Clinton refused to concede defeat to Obama for as long as she could. Gore retracted his concession to Bush. But the media would like you to think that was history.
> 
> ...
> 
> But this kind of thing isn't unacceptable. It doesn't make Hillary undemocratic. After all, she is a Democrat.


But, Hillary LOVES women!

WikiLeaks: Clinton Foundation Paid Women Less Than Men



> The Clinton Foundation in 2011 employed more women than men but paid them less, on average, according to a salary schedule included in an email released Friday by WikiLeaks.
> 
> ...
> 
> Overall, the average salary for women and men was close. But men out-earned women. Men earned $68,164 compared to $64,118 for women, on average. The median salary also was higher for men, $55,200 compared with $50,000.


James O’Keefe Files FEC Suit Against Hillary Clinton



> The decision comes amid increasing media coverage of the two videos released by O’Keefe, which expose apparently illicit actions by a group of political actors associated with the Clinton campaign, the DNC and the White House.
> 
> The establishment media was forced to cover O’Keefe’s videos after one subject, Robert Creamer, announced he would quit working for the DNC. This break came a day after the first video release prompted another subject, Scott Foval, to leave his job with another Democratic political group, Americans United for Change.


Related to Creamer:

New O’Keefe Video: Hillary Clinton Approved Robert Creamer Plan Directly



> James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas has released video evidence that left-wing organizer and high-level Democratic Party operative Robert Creamer is, in fact, linked directly to Hillary Clinton, who personally approved at least one of his disruptive tactics.


Video: DNC Officials Plotting to Attack Old Women at Trump Rally



> _Aaron Black, the deputy rapid response director for the DNC is caught on camera bragging about his involvement with the Chicago Trump protest that turned violent in March. In this video he schemes about getting men to bully women at a Trump rally, saying “That is what I’m going to do. That is the hit.”_​
> In the video, Black makes it clear he wants to be sure their involvement in disrupting the rally cannot be traced back to them. The clip is proof the DNC and Hillary Clinton supporters were working inside jobs to cause chaos at the Trump rallies. The video of the undercover DNC schemers can be watched below.


Video: And now, a word from Hillary Clinton on the importance of government cybersecurity



> _ Hillary Clinton’s campaign struggled to get the candidate to apologize for using a private email server as secretary of state, recently hacked emails reveal…
> 
> *“I know this email thing isn’t on the level,” Tanden wrote to Podesta on August 22. “I’m fully aware of that. But her inability to just do a national interview and communicate genuine feelings of remorse and regret is now, I fear, becoming a character problem (more so than honesty).”*
> 
> “People hate her arrogant, like her down,” Tanden said. “It’s a sexist context, but I think it’s the truth. I see no downside in her actually just saying, look, I’m sorry. I think it will take so much air out of this.”…
> 
> “She always sees herself bending to ‘their’ will when she hands over information, etc.,” she said. “But the way she has to bend here is in the remorse. Not the ‘if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t do it.’ A real feeling of – this decision I made created a mess and I’m sorry I did that.”_​


M'bold.

Finally, this:

Clinton says she has 'no concerns' that Trump will try to jail her if he wins: 'We don't do that in America'



> Hillary Clinton says she's not worried that Donald Trump will make good on his threat to 'jail' her if he wins.
> 
> 'I have no concerns about [that] whatsoever,' she told reporters traveling on her plane from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia after DailyMail.com asked her about his pledge.
> 
> The Republican said he'll appoint a special prosecutor to look into her emails and told Clinton she'd 'be in jail' if he were in the White House now.
> 
> 'Every time Donald Trump says he wants to jail his opponent, meaning me, I think to myself, you know, we don't do that in America,' Clinton said earlier in the evening at her Pittsburgh rally. *'We actually have laws and courts and an independent judiciary.'*


M'bold.

We will after Trump gets in...


----------



## Macfury

Trump's election will be the biggest "F*** You" in human history, and it will feel GOOD! - _Michael Moore _

Warning: strong language.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Rps

MICHAEL MOORE! Who cares........he reinforces my view that those in the entertainment industry ( actors, singers, sports personalities ) should be ignored during elections.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> MICHAEL MOORE! Who cares........he reinforces my view that those in the entertainment industry ( actors, singers, sports personalities ) should be ignored during elections.


This. Moore is an idiot.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> This. Moore is an idiot.


Yep. But I think he taps into voter sentiment very well with that statement He quickly regains his idiocy by stumping for Crooked Hillary..


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## FeXL

Still doesn't have a clue. Him, Bill's Wife, all the other Dems & half the Republicans...

Obama Blames ‘Far-Right Media’ for ‘Pumping Out All Kinds of Crazy Toxic Stuff’



> President Barack Obama is again complaining about conservative media, accusing it of creating candidate Donald Trump.
> 
> *“Trump didn’t come out of nowhere now,”* Obama said during a campaign speech in Miami. “For years, Republican politicians and far-right media outlets had just been pumping out all kinds of toxic, crazy stuff.”


----------



## FeXL

20,000 Supporters Turn Out to See DONALD TRUMP in Tampa



> DONALD TRUMP IS SPEAKING IN TAMPA, FLORIDA TODAY–
> It is his third rally of the day.


Related:

Fox Reporter: Seeing Trump Rally Crowds, “HOW COULD HE POSSIBLY BE BEHIND?”



> *In Tampa, there were 20,000 supporters out for Trump.*
> 
> All this prompted John Roberts to say, *“By looking at the crowd that you see out there, you have to wonder: How could he possibly be behind?”*


Links' bold.

Here's a little tip for ya, Johnny: He ain't.


----------



## FeXL

Well put together piece that nails it.

<ahem> Progs may not like the choice of words...

Trump’s Right – The System Is Rigged And We Don’t Owe It Our Default Acceptance



> Then there is electoral integrity. We’ve seen numerous investigations of voter fraud and no one cares. We have one party refusing to clear voter rolls of ineligible voters, while also on a quest to ensure that no one need prove his identity to vote. *Sure, Democrats have good reason to believe their voters are too lazy and/or stupid to obtain ID cards*, but we all know why they really oppose voter ID: it makes it harder to cheat. And then there’s Project Veritas. We have a Democrat party operative and the husband of a sitting Democrat congressbeing caught on tape proving Democrat catspaws paid to cause violence at a Trump rally, violence which the media covered and blamed on Trump to damaging effect. And this guy went to the White House hundreds of times and frequently met with President Faily McWorsethancarter.
> 
> Hey Pearl Clutchers, read that again and tell me how this isn’t a thousand times worse than Watergate. Then tell me how this is getting only a millionth of the outrage and coverage if the system isn’t rigged.
> 
> *So we’re supposed to take it on faith that the votes are going to be counted fairly? Uh huh, sure. If you think Trump is somehow morally obligated to preemptively give up his right to challenge the result after that, you can kiss his hanging chad.*


M'bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> How about a few on Bill's Wife?
> 
> 
> 
> Conflict of interest? What conflict of interest...
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton ally gave $500K to wife of FBI agent on email probe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WIKILEAKS: Hillary Got $12 Million for Clinton Charity As Quid Pro Quo For Morocco Meeting
> 
> 
> 
> More Pay For Play?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> Huma on Hillary’s $12M Morocco fiasco: ‘She created this mess and she knows it’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On double standards:
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton Claimed Bush Was Never Legitimately Elected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, Hillary LOVES women!
> 
> 
> 
> WikiLeaks: Clinton Foundation Paid Women Less Than Men
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James O’Keefe Files FEC Suit Against Hillary Clinton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related to Creamer:
> 
> 
> 
> New O’Keefe Video: Hillary Clinton Approved Robert Creamer Plan Directly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video: DNC Officials Plotting to Attack Old Women at Trump Rally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video: And now, a word from Hillary Clinton on the importance of government cybersecurity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, this:
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton says she has 'no concerns' that Trump will try to jail her if he wins: 'We don't do that in America'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> We will after Trump gets in...



All your little protests won't amount to Jack Squat once "Bill's wife" becomes the next POTUS. And your friend Donald is the one more likely going to jail for sexual assault. I jes loves it when the tables have turned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

What protests? They're facts. Tiny, niggling, little, insignificant details that keep piling up here & there. Information that the sold MSM can no longer cover up nor explain. Egg all over her face.

And, are you a bettin' man, fjn? I'm not, normally. On this horse race? Yep...



Freddie_Biff said:


> All your little protests won't amount to Jack Squat once "Bill's wife" becomes the next POTUS.


----------



## Macfury

Dilbert creator Scott Adams could not have said this any better:

The Bully Party | Scott Adams' Blog



> *The Bully Party*
> 
> _I’ve been trying to figure out what common trait binds Clinton supporters together. As far as I can tell, the most unifying characteristic is a willingness to bully in all its forms._
> 
> If you have a Trump sign in your lawn, they will steal it.
> 
> If you have a Trump bumper sticker, they will deface your car.
> 
> if you speak of Trump at work you could get fired.
> 
> On social media, almost every message I get from a Clinton supporter is a bullying type of message. They insult. They try to shame. They label. And obviously they threaten my livelihood.
> 
> We know from Project Veritas that Clinton supporters tried to incite violence at Trump rallies. The media downplays it.
> 
> We also know Clinton’s side hired paid trolls to bully online. You don’t hear much about that.
> 
> Yesterday, by no coincidence, Huffington Post, Salon, and Daily Kos all published similar-sounding hit pieces on me, presumably to lower my influence. (That reason, plus jealousy, are the only reasons writers write about other writers.)
> 
> Joe Biden said he wanted to take Trump behind the bleachers and beat him up. No one on Clinton’s side disavowed that call to violence because, I assume, they consider it justified hyperbole.
> 
> Team Clinton has succeeded in perpetuating one of the greatest evils I have seen in my lifetime. Her side has branded Trump supporters (40%+ of voters) as Nazis, sexists, homophobes, racists, and a few other fighting words. Their argument is built on confirmation bias and persuasion. But facts don’t matter because facts never matter in politics. What matters is that Clinton’s framing of Trump provides moral cover for any bullying behavior online or in person. No one can be a bad person for opposing Hitler, right?
> 
> Some Trump supporters online have suggested that people who intend to vote for Trump should wear their Trump hats on election day. That is a dangerous idea, and I strongly discourage it. There would be riots in the streets because we already know the bullies would attack. But on election day, inviting those attacks is an extra-dangerous idea. Violence is bad on any day, but on election day, Republicans are far more likely to unholster in an effort to protect their voting rights. Things will get wet fast.
> 
> Yes, yes, I realize Trump supporters say bad things about Clinton supporters too. I don’t defend the bad apples on either side. I’ll just point out that Trump’s message is about uniting all Americans under one flag. _The Clinton message is that some Americans are good people and the other 40% are some form of deplorables, deserving of shame, vandalism, punishing taxation, and violence. She has literally turned Americans on each other. It is hard for me to imagine a worse thing for a presidential candidate to do.
> 
> I’ll say that again.
> 
> As far as I can tell, the worst thing a presidential candidate can do is turn Americans against each other. Clinton is doing that, intentionally.
> 
> Intentionally._
> 
> As I often say, I don’t know who has the best policies. I don’t know the best way to fight ISIS and I don’t know how to fix healthcare or trade deals. I don’t know which tax policies are best to lift the economy. I don’t know the best way to handle any of that stuff. (And neither do you.) But I do have a bad reaction to bullies. And I’ve reached my limit.
> 
> I hope you have too. Therefore…
> 
> I endorse Donald Trump for President of the United States because I oppose bullying in all its forms.
> 
> I don’t defend Trump’s personal life. Neither Trump nor Clinton are role models for our children. Let’s call that a tie, at worst.
> 
> *The bullies are welcome to drown in their own bile while those of us who want a better world do what we’ve been doing for hundreds of years: Work to make it better while others complain about how we’re doing it.*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What protests? They're facts. Tiny, niggling, little, insignificant details that keep piling up here & there. Information that the sold MSM can no longer cover up nor explain. Egg all over her face.
> 
> 
> 
> And, are you a bettin' man, fjn? I'm not, normally. On this horse race? Yep...



Insignificant is right. Egg on face is nothing compared to what the Tangerine One is prepared to unload. I would bet all the rice in china on this one. Trump will lose mightily, and then he will remind us how everything is rigged against him and he'll sue the whole political system for trying to make him look bad. Kellyanne Conway will be doing another facepalm.

Meanwhile, "Bill's wife" will be grinning from ear to ear. Better get used to it. Repeat after me: Madam President...Madam President...Madam President....


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Madam President...Madam President...Madam President....


Biff, you're in a public forum--not talking to Mrs. Biff in the marital bed.


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From another forum, but worth repeating. M'response follows. 



elucidator said:


> Thing is, we'll never know. How many votes did Trump not get because his people stayed home, because its rigged? Probably not many, I would guess. How many would go to vote for Trump, but ignore the downticket choices to protest "Republican elite" betrayal? Again, we'll never know. Conversely, how many mostly sensible Republicans will vote downticket, but boycott Trump? Same thing.
> 
> And who, outside of my nitwit cousin, who hath not the good sense that God gave a goose....will not vote for Hillary because Bernie, even after Bernie damned near begs them to!
> 
> There will be opinions, but facts will be sparse.



Trump is doing the old lawyer trick called "mitigating his losses." He wouldn't be making these "rigged election" statements if he didn't think he might lose. It's not strategy to get people out to vote; it's self-preservation. He knows full well he's nowhere near qualified for the job, but he's been bull****ting his was successfully so far. So to prevent becoming a big loser, he shouts himself in the foot and then blames the gun. One thing you will never hear Trump say is "I lost. I didn't win." Anything but that. Listen to him very closely when he makes his concession speech, if he even grows a pair to be able to do that. 


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## Macfury

Bernie is a traitor to his followers by asking them to vote for Hillary. Elucidator's cousin has got it right.

I think Al Gore is still bitching that he didn't lose the 2000 election!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Bernie is a traitor to his followers by asking them to vote for Hillary. Elucidator's cousin has got it right.


So, Sanders should have told those who supported him, like me, to go an vote for Trump? How would that advance his cause?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> So, Sanders should have told those who supported him, like me, to go an vote for Trump? How would that advance his cause?


Hillary is a blatant corporatist as evidenced by her Goldman Sachs speeches and her WIKI Leaks revelations. Better for Bernie supporters to vote Green than to vote Hillary.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hillary is a blatant corporatist as evidenced by her Goldman Sachs speeches and her WIKI Leaks revelations. Better for Bernie supporters to vote Green than to vote Hillary.


I disagree. Hopefully, Clinton will get a majority if the Senate to be able to name the next Supreme Court justice. That will be a "YUUGGG" nomination. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami. Two weeks to go.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Bernie is a traitor to his followers by asking them to vote for Hillary. Elucidator's cousin has got it right.
> 
> 
> 
> I think Al Gore is still bitching that he didn't lose the 2000 election!




But he didn't lose the election. Florida was handed to Bush in violation of the rules regarding election recounts. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I disagree. Hopefully, Clinton will get a majority if the Senate to be able to name the next Supreme Court justice. That will be a "YUUGGG" nomination. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami. Two weeks to go.



Only two weeks? But then what are we all going to argue about?  Perhaps we should be asking some of our ehMac friends whether they will respect the outcome of the election, or whether they will protest that the election was rigged, a la Mr. Trump. 


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## Macfury

That sore loser Gore wouldn't respect the results of the election. Looks like you didn't either.



Freddie_Biff said:


> But he didn't lose the election. Florida was handed to Bush in violation of the rules regarding election recounts.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

I guess sarcasm is difficult to detect in the written form...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Insignificant is right.


Ooooo, take a walk on the wild side. 

Good. How much cash?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I would bet all the rice in china on this one.


Lying Bitch, Lying Bitch, Lying Bitch...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Madam President...Madam President...Madam President....


----------



## FeXL

I can think of at least two reason why he might be making that statement.

1) Your opinion, highly unsubstantiated, and
2) That the elections are, in fact, rigged. This is supported by significant evidence.



Freddie_Biff said:


> He wouldn't be making these "rigged election" statements if he didn't think he might lose.


----------



## FeXL

Further from Wikileaks.

Wikileaks Shocker: Cheryl Mills Tells Podesta "We Need To Clean This Up - Obama Has Emails From Her"



> Recall that in a March 2015 interview with CBS, just after the NYT reported of Hillary's use of a private email server, *president Obama told the American public he had only learned about Hillary's use of a private server from the press.*
> 
> As we reminded readers one month ago, CBS News senior White House correspondent Bill Plante asked Mr. Obama when he learned about her private email system after his Saturday appearance in Selma, Alabama. "The same time everybody else learned it through news reports," the president told Plante. "The policy of my administration is to encourage transparency, which is why my emails, the BlackBerry I carry around, all those records are available and archived," Mr. Obama said. "I'm glad that Hillary's instructed that those emails about official business need to be disclosed."


M'bold.

Bull$h!t...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> ...the elections are, in fact, rigged. This is supported by significant evidence.



Biff didn't see this on the CBC, so it can't be true.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Insurers use California’s assisted-suicide law to deny treatment for terminal patients



> “As soon as this law was passed… patients fighting for a longer life end up getting denied treatment…”


Nice.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-one-for-the-ages/?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

Wow!!!! I thought we were about to see blood coming out of Newt's whatever.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-one-for-the-ages/?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!!!! I thought we were about to see blood coming out of Newt's whatever.



She really tore him a new one, didn't she! 


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Biff didn't see this on the CBC, so it can't be true.


Sorta explains itself, don't it...

Further on creating biased polls, plus, you guessed it, faulty voting machines!

Texas Rigged? Reports Of Voting Machines Switching Votes To Hillary In Texas



> Over the weekend we wrote about a Podesta email that clearly spelled out, in detail, exactly how to "manufacture" polling data by "oversampling" certain demographic groups that are overwhelmingly democrat leaning.


More:



> this is not a scientific poll. *it is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, simple propaganda designed to create a false impression that hillary enjoys the approval of the herd. and, make no mistake about it, what this is designed to do is steer the herd in a pre-defined direction.*


Links' bold.

Related:

rig an election? .... let hillary clinton's campaign manager tell you how .... (he's also in charge of "wet work") ....



> john podesta, besides being in charge of "wet work" for the clinton campaign, also is in charge of election "rigging." in its simplest and most elegant form it simply is discouraging hillary's opponents from voting, by rigging the polling that is reported by "selective" sampling: in other words, you identify and "poll" your supporters, and describe the rather predictable results as representative of the whole country.


And:



> But, if recent reports of electronic voting machine issues are true, then perhaps the democrats have another trick up their sleeves to win Texas in 2016. As noted by Paul Joseph Watson, residents in multiple Texas cities have already complained that voting machines are switching their votes from Trump to Hillary.


----------



## FeXL

Me, too.

Why I'm (still) betting big on Donald Trump to win



> Rasmussen has Trump up by 43-41 percent.
> 
> USC/LA Times has Trump up by 1 point.
> 
> And most importantly, the most accurate poll of the 2012 election, IBD/TIPP has Trump up 43 to 41 percent.
> 
> Funny how the mainstream media doesn’t mention these polls.
> 
> But there are many signs this year is different and pollsters cannot accurately measure the direction of the electorate.
> 
> *Trump attracts 10,000 or more crazed fans to his events. Hillary attracts 200 to 500. And most of those attendees are Democrat Party employees or union hacks paid to be there! The exact number since August 1 is 561,000 for Trump events vs 31,000 for Hillary events.*
> 
> Hillary can’t even sell her new book. As of this moment, it’s #5,568 at Amazon. It’s brand new. It’s written by the most high-profile woman in the world. She has had an audience of over 60 million watching each of the past three presidential debates. Yet no one is buying her book.
> 
> The signs are everywhere. Literally.


M'bold.

Related:

When even MSNBC starts noticing...

Brexit Redux? Scarborough, Cillizza Agree: There Is a Hidden Trump Vote



> Could Donald Trump pull a Brexit, confounding elite opinion by winning the election with votes that the polls didn’t pick up? *On today’s Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough and Chris Cillizza of the Washington Post agreed it could happen.*


M'bold.

Nope. Watch it happen. The highbrows, the Dems, the RINO Never-Trumpers (but I repeat myself) have no idea just how unsatisfied the grass roots voter is with the current batch of politicians.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk lying Dems some more!

Wikileaks: Hillary's Aides Privately Scoffed at Obama's Claims to Not Know About Hillary's Secret, Illegal Email System



> The only person in America stupid enough to believe these lies is apparently James Comey.


More (from the link inside):

Top Clinton Aide Privately Questioned Obama’s Clinton Email Ignorance



> Hillary Clinton’s chief of staff privately told colleagues that President Barack Obama had falsely claimed he was unaware of Clinton’s use of a private email system while she was secretary of state, hacked emails reveal.
> 
> “We need to clean this up,” top Clinton aide Cheryl Mills told campaign chairman John Podesta in an email a month before Clinton’s campaign officially launched. She was responding to Obama’s claim that he found out about Clinton’s personal email address at “the same time everybody else learned it through news reports.”
> 
> “He has emails from her – they do not say state.gov,” Mills told Podesta.
> 
> The email came less than a week after the New York Times broke the story on Clinton’s use of a private email address to conduct official State Department business.


Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Not...

And this:

Insider reveals why Clinton camp sat on her emails: ‘They wanted to get away with it’



> “They wanted to get away with it.” That’s was Clinton confidante Neera Tanden’s take on why Hillary Clinton and her aides hadn’t put out information about her private server months earlier. Tanden made the comment in an email to John Podesta on March 2, 2015, the day the NY Times published a story which made Clinton’s private server national news.
> 
> “I highly recommend she start making some other positive news soon,” Tanden wrote, probably in reference to the NY Times story. Podesta’s reply is sarcastic, “Really? That’s great advice.”


----------



## FeXL

Further on those 33,000 yoga routine emails...

Hillary’s 33,000 emails might not be ‘missing’ after all



> For months now, we’ve been told that Hillary Clinton’s 33,000 missing emails were permanently erased and destroyed beyond recovery. But newly released FBI notes strongly suggest they still exist in several locations — and they could be recovered, *if only someone would impanel a grand jury and seize them.*


M'bold.

So, who has big enough stones to do just that...


----------



## FeXL

WWDD?

COMMENTARY: Summary of Trump’s 100 Day Plan



> Donald Trump has presented a comprehensive plan for the first 100 days of his presidency. Here is an outline of what he has proposed:


Coupla observations...

A1: Like
A2: Good
A8: will take a helluva lot longer than 100 days.
B7: highly approve.
C2: half of Americans already pay no taxes. Not sure how many this will ultimately affect.
C4: interesting
F1: Woohoo!!!
G2: Woohoo!!!, too.

Related:

What Is to Be Done? Trump Has Some Ideas



> Actually this is a good idea for Trump. Beyond the wall, tax cut plan, and his views of tighter scrutiny for Muslim immigrants, he’s been lacking in details. His contract is quite specific, offering 28 specific items in four separate groupings.


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

He's a dinosaur I would vote for!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> He's a dinosaur I would vote for!


----------



## Macfury

That's a great pic!

Here's another on I like:


----------



## CubaMark

*Oh, how times change....*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:lmao::clap::lmao:

It was a great show ............... and Trump does a great parody of B P Richfield.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Eric Grenier's predictions were certainly true for Canada last year. What does he have to say about the American race? 



















http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/uspolltracker/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Speaking of good parodies ..............

Will Ferrell Just Came Back As Bush To Destroy Trump (VIDEO)


----------



## FeXL

I don't know WTF an Eric Grenier is but I s'pose that correctly projecting election results for a whole year is awfully, mightily impressive to some. By the look of your links he must be some state broadcaster hack.

On the other hand, a whole century of correct predictions, save one, might be impressive to others...

SUNY Prof With Reliable Election Model Predicts 87% Chance of Trump Win



> Helmut Norpoth, a professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island, has developed a model for predicting elections which, when applied, has correctly predicted every presidential election back to 1912 with one exception – the 1960 election.
> 
> He has been predicting a Trump win for months and he’s standing by his forecast.


Trump, 2016...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Eric Grenier's predictions were certainly true for Canada last year.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I don't know WTF an Eric Grenier is but I s'pose that correctly projecting election results for a whole year is awfully, mightily impressive to some. By the look of your links he must be some state broadcaster hack.
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, a whole century of correct predictions, save one, might be impressive to others...
> 
> 
> 
> SUNY Prof With Reliable Election Model Predicts 87% Chance of Trump Win
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump, 2016...



Who is this Eric Grenier? Ever heard of ThreeHundredEight.com? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Yep. 

Didn't read the fine print. Don't care.

He's got this prediction wrong.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who is this Eric Grenier? Ever heard of ThreeHundredEight.com?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't read the fine print. Don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> He's got this prediction wrong.



And yet, he predicted Trudeau's win over Harper. Underestimated even. Trump will be a grease stain on the footnote of history, and many buildings will be removing the Trump name from them as the brand has become so corrupted. Less than two weeks, amigo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macintosh doctor

when you are caught in the act of being superior


----------



## FeXL

I and many others also predicted it. That the Dauphin was going to beat a guy who had been in that office for 10 years wasn't exactly rocket surgery. Does that make us all political geniuses, too?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet, he predicted Trudeau's win over Harper.


Prepare yourself for disappointment, tovarisch. I have a fine Cohiba & an 18 year old vintage port at hand...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump will be a grease stain on the footnote of history, and many buildings will be removing the Trump name from them as the brand has become so corrupted. Less than two weeks, amigo.


----------



## CubaMark

And now, the lighter side of non-Presidential American politics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjRwNUQDRU




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I and many others also predicted it. That the Dauphin was going to beat a guy who had been in that office for 10 years wasn't exactly rocket surgery. Does that make us all political geniuses, too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prepare yourself for disappointment, tovarisch. I have a fine Cohiba & an 18 year old vintage port at hand...



We shall see, as a good friend of mine likes to say. Paix, mon ami. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> We shall see, as a good friend of mine likes to say. Paix, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> And now, the lighter side of non-Presidential American politics:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjRwNUQDRU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Loved her expression at the very end of the clip. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Yes, we will. Mark my words: Prog & RINO heads will be exploding continent wide.



Freddie_Biff said:


> We shall see, as a good friend of mine likes to say.


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk Wikileaks & Bill's Wife s'more!

I remember calling bull$h!t the day this came out.

‘We Need to Clean This Up’: More Evidence Obama Lied about Hillary’s Private E-mails



> There was panic in Camp Clinton when President Obama falsely told the public he had not known about then-Secretary Hillary Clinton’s use of private e-mail until he heard about it “through news reports.”


I thought Trump was s'pose to have the Russian connections?

WikiLeaks: New Evidence Podesta Schemed to Hide Russian-Tied Assets



> An email released by WikiLeaks on Wednesday morning appears to prove Clinton campaign Chairman John Podesta created a holding company in order to conceal his interests in an energy company with deep ties to the Putin regime.


Conflict of interest? What conflict of interest?

Clinton Campaign Chairman Had Multiple Dinners With Top DOJ Official During Clinton Email Investigation



> The day after Hillary Clinton testified in front of the House Select Committee on Benghazi last October, John Podesta, the Democrat’s campaign chairman, met for dinner with a small group of well-connected friends, including Peter Kadzik, a top official at the Justice Department.
> 
> The dinner arrangement, revealed in hacked Podesta emails released by WikiLeaks, is just the latest example of an apparent conflict of interest between the Clinton campaign and the federal agency charged with investigating the former secretary of state’s email practices.


Sucking up to the MSM?

THE WIKILEAKS LIST: At Least 65 MSM Reporters Were Meeting with and/or Coordinating Offline with Top Hillary Advisors



> Thanks to Wikileaks we now know that at least 65 mainstream reporters were working closely with the Clinton campaign this election year. They were invited to top elitist dinners with Hillary Campaign Chairman John Podesta or Chief Campaign strategist Joel Benenson.
> 
> NO FOX NEWS REPORTERS MADE THE LIST!
> 
> These 65 mainstream reporters CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED


Let's be candid: It's not like they could be trusted to cite actual facts & present the truth before the meetings, either...

And this:

BOOM!! NEW James O’Keefe video EXPOSES who REALLY got that ‘47%’ video that tanked Romney!



> What we were TOLD is that it was some bartender who was striking back at the rich, wealthy elites, like some socialist fairy tale. What O’Keefe discovered is that it was actually shady political operatives paid for by the Democratic National Convention.


Nah. Couldn't be!!!

And, more on the Clinton Foundation:

Inside ‘Bill Clinton Inc.’: Hacked memo reveals intersection of charity and personal income



> The memo, made public Wednesday by the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks, lays out the aggressive strategy behind lining up the consulting contracts and paid speaking engagements for Bill Clinton that added tens of millions of dollars to the family’s fortune, including during the years that Hillary Clinton led the State Department. It describes how Band helped run what he called “Bill Clinton Inc.,” obtaining “in-kind services for the President and his family — for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like.”


Now, some of you have said, are thinking the same and may say again, "Bill's not running!".

Brilliant observation. Did you go to school for that?

Isn't it important who & what the spouse of the highest office in the land is? Are you entirely comfortable with an impeached president, a serial sex abuser, a rapist, in the White House along with his wife?

What if Laureen Harper had exactly the same creds as Bill Clinton? Would the left have been pulling their hair out attempting to get that message across?

You bet your sweet patootie you would have.

Bill is every much a part of this equation as his wife is...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Loved her expression at the very end of the clip. :lmao:




Oui, Monsieur!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, let's talk Wikileaks & Bill's Wife s'more!
> 
> 
> 
> I remember calling bull$h!t the day this came out.
> 
> 
> 
> ‘We Need to Clean This Up’: More Evidence Obama Lied about Hillary’s Private E-mails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Trump was s'pose to have the Russian connections?
> 
> 
> 
> WikiLeaks: New Evidence Podesta Schemed to Hide Russian-Tied Assets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conflict of interest? What conflict of interest?
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton Campaign Chairman Had Multiple Dinners With Top DOJ Official During Clinton Email Investigation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sucking up to the MSM?
> 
> 
> 
> THE WIKILEAKS LIST: At Least 65 MSM Reporters Were Meeting with and/or Coordinating Offline with Top Hillary Advisors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's be candid: It's not like they could be trusted to cite actual facts & present the truth before the meetings, either...
> 
> 
> 
> And this:
> 
> 
> 
> BOOM!! NEW James O’Keefe video EXPOSES who REALLY got that ‘47%’ video that tanked Romney!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah. Couldn't be!!!
> 
> 
> 
> And, more on the Clinton Foundation:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside ‘Bill Clinton Inc.’: Hacked memo reveals intersection of charity and personal income
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, some of you have said, are thinking the same and may say again, "Bill's not running!".
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant observation. Did you go to school for that?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it important who & what the spouse of the highest office in the land is? Are you entirely comfortable with an impeached president, a serial sex abuser, a rapist, in the White House along with his wife?
> 
> 
> 
> What if Laureen Harper had exactly the same creds as Bill Clinton? Would the left have been pulling their hair out attempting to get that message across?
> 
> 
> 
> You bet your sweet patootie you would have.
> 
> 
> 
> Bill is every much a part of this equation as his wife is...




Lovely research, but it doesn't matter. Hillary's got this one. Donald will be left scratching his tangerine head and wondering how he became the biggest LOSER of 2016. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oui, Monsieur!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

So, Trump said "pussy". Woop-de-frickin'-do.

Crude? Yep. Tasteless? Yep. Locker room talk? Absolutely. At my age there isn't much I haven't heard coming from the locker room or from even amateur sports. Being a professional photographer has entitled me to be on basketball courts right next to the play, to be standing in or near the team box at hockey games, to be sitting in the crowd alongside spectators.

Nothing that came out of Trump's mouth on that tape comes even close to some of the things I've heard come out of the mouth's of athletes as young as 15 or supporters much older than me. Even I've been surprised at some of the graphic language & I ain't exactly a puritan.

However, if those sorts of things bother you, how about this?

Hillary Clinton and Lena Dunham Discuss Lenny Kravitz's 'Stuff' in a Locker Room Fashion



> So here we have the eternally creepy Lena Dunham and the woman who would be president working through a painful "joke" about Mrs. Clinton's desire to see a video of Lenny Kravitz's accidentally exposed manhood.


Using the same standards that you are judging Trump by, is the above acceptable?

How about this?

Hillary Clinton’s Own Words: “Super Predators, Taco Bowls, Bimbos, Deplorables, Basement Dwellers”



> *Here is just a partial list of Clinton’s views on others*:
> 
> “SUPER PREDATORS” – Hillary’s phrase used to describe young black males in America.
> 
> “TACO BOWLS” – A description of Hispanic voters by the Clinton campaign revealed via hacked DNC emails.
> 
> “BIMBOS” – Hillary’s generalization of women who claimed to have been sexually abused by her husband, Bill Clinton.
> 
> “DEPLORABLES” – Hillary Clinton’s description of tens of millions of Donald Trump supporters.
> 
> “BASEMENT DWELLERS” – This is how Hillary views Bernie Sanders supporters.


My bold.

Or this?

Hillary Clinton Operative: Half Of Population Of U.S. Are “Irrational” “Functional Illiterates”, Including Sanders Supporters… 

Or how about Bill's Wife's rap supporters?

From Beyonce and Jay-Z to Chance the Rapper and Pusha T: Meet Hillary's rap-star supporters behind vile lyrics some say are way WORSE than anything Trump ever said



> Hillary Clinton quickly pounced on Trump's 2005 remarks, in which he bragged about being able to get away with groping women without consent, describing them as 'horrific'.
> 
> However, in the days since the Republican nominee's comments emerged, many are highlighting 'offensive' lyrics in songs from Clinton's supporters.
> 
> Conservative pundit Betsy McCaughey got the conversation going during a segment on CNN, when she read out some Beyonce lyrics in an attempt to discredit the Democratic nominee.
> 
> Hillary Clinton has come under fire from some for being supported by performers, including Beyonce and Pusha T, who have 'offensive lyrics'
> 
> 'Hillary Clinton expresses that she finds (Trump's) language on that bus horrific, but in fact she likes language like this,' McCaughey said, before quoting a line from Beyonce's hit, Formation.
> 
> '"I came to slay bitch, when he F me good I take his ass to red lobster"... That happens to be a line from Beyonce.
> 
> *'Her favorite performer whom she says she idolizes and would like to imitate.
> 
> 'So you know what I'm saying to you? There's a lot of hypocrisy in Hillary Clinton expressing such horror at the language on the bus.'*


M'bold.

Judging by some of the language she's used, I'd say she's more than halfway there.

Related:

Michelle Obama's Promotion of Misogyny and Date Rape



> Well, Eric Schultz (and presumably Barack Obama), here is what you can do with your warning. Donald Trump's statements, which were probably empty boasts in contrast to Bill Clinton's well-known behavior, were indeed lewd and unacceptable. While two wrongs do not make a right, _Michelle and Barack Obama have openly promoted rap artists who glorify misogyny, sexual objectification of women, and even date rape._ *That's right; I am indeed calling out our country's sorry excuse for a First Lady for her and her husband's deplorable legitimization of the most despicable misogynistic language on earth.*


M'bold.

Is this acceptable? Or is there a little (HUUUUGE!) double standard at work here? Where is the outrage from the Left? Or does it simply not matter because, Dems?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, Trump said "pussy". Woop-de-frickin'-do.
> 
> Crude? Yep. Tasteless? Yep. Locker room talk? Absolutely. At my age there isn't much I haven't heard coming from the locker room or from even amateur sports. Being a professional photographer has entitled me to be on basketball courts right next to the play, to be standing in or near the team box at hockey games, to be sitting in the crowd alongside spectators.
> 
> Nothing that came out of Trump's mouth on that tape comes even close to some of the things I've heard come out of the mouth's of athletes as young as 15 or supporters much older than me. Even I've been surprised at some of the graphic language & I ain't exactly a puritan.?


Thank-you for providing us with the perfect example of someone who doesn't get it.

_Nobody cares_ that Trump said "pussy".

Everyone who isn't a misogynist is concerned that Trump *admitted to sexually assaulting women*.

The simple fact that this goes over your head explains your support for people like Trump.* It's not "just locker room talk". It's a confession.*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Thank-you for providing us with the perfect example of someone who doesn't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> _Nobody cares_ that Trump said "pussy".
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone who isn't a misogynist is concerned that Trump *admitted to sexually assaulting women*.
> 
> 
> 
> The simple fact that this goes over your head explains your support for people like Trump.* It's not "just locker room talk". It's a confession.*




Never let the facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory. The system is RIGGED, I tell you. RIGGED!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Never let the facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory. The system is RIGGED, I tell you. RIGGED!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Will Trump still be saying the system is rigged if he win?????????????


----------



## FeXL

Bull$h!t.

Talk about conspiracy theories.

Not only that but everybody on the left was up in arms about his language. And not just on this particular occasion...



CubaMark said:


> _It's a confession._


----------



## FeXL

Now you're starting to sound like the fruit loops & whackos. I'd rather hoped you had stayed above that.

There is significant evidence that there is rigging going on. If you have any evidence to contradict that, please, feel free to place it into a cohesive argument.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The system is RIGGED, I tell you. RIGGED!!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Bull$h!t.
> 
> Talk about conspiracy theories.


Explain how it's bull****. Explain the conspiracy theory. Don't mumble something unintelligible into the microphone. Elaborate. 



FeXL said:


> Not only that but everybody on the left was up in arms about his language. And not just on this particular occasion...


Dare I suggest that THIS is your problem. You don't get it. You think people were complaining about the language, but as I said, that's not it. It's Trump declaring that he forced himself on women, the definition of sexual assault. This isn't the 50s when you can slap a woman on the ass and say "Come on, honey, give me some sugar!". 

For the Record, the transcript:

_Unknown: "She used to be great, she's still very beautiful."
Trump: "I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and **** her, she was married."
Unknown: "That's huge news there."
Trump: "No, no, Nancy. No this was [inaudible] and I moved on her very heavily in fact I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I moved on her like a bitch. I couldn't get there and she was married. Then all-of-a-sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look."
Bush: "Your girl's hot as ****. In the purple."
Multiple voices: "Whoah. Yes. Whoah."
Bush: "Yes. The Donald has scored. Whoah my man."
Trump: "Look at you. You are a pussy."
Bush: "You gotta get the thumbs up."
Trump: "Maybe it's a different one."
Bush: "It better not be the publicist. No, it's, it's her."
Trump: "Yeah that's her with the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
Bush: "Whatever you want."
Trump: "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."
Bush: "Yeah those legs. All I can see is the legs."
Trump: "It looks good."
Bush: "Come on shorty."
Trump: "Oh nice legs huh."
Bush: "Get out of the way honey. Oh that's good legs. Go ahead."
Trump: "It's always good if you don't fall out of the bus. Like Ford, Gerald Ford, remember?"
[As Mr Trump attempts to leave the vehicle he struggles with the door]_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Now you're starting to sound like the fruit loops & whackos. I'd rather hoped you had stayed above that.
> 
> 
> 
> There is significant evidence that there is rigging going on. If you have any evidence to contradict that, please, feel free to place it into a cohesive argument.



I believe the onus is on those wearing the tin foil hats to prove the conspiracy, not the other way around. If Trump wins, will you still believe the system is rigged? Or is it only rigged if he loses? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Bull$h!t.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only that but everybody on the left was up in arms about his language. And not just on this particular occasion...



Sorry, buddy. The language was certainly unbecoming of a future POTUS, but it was the bragging about sexual assault that caught my attention. And then when women come forward to verify that claim, he says it never happened and threatens to sue anyone that says it did. Tangerine Man speak with forked tongue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

OK, I'll elaborate: Fukc you.

You aren't exactly a member in good standing when it comes to defending his arguments on these boards. Plus, I'm not very interested in engaging a self-confessed hypocrite who justifies his double standards because he's weak & can't control himself when it comes to 'certain' people. That's YOUR problem. Time to put your big girl panties on & deal with it.

I'm also not very interested in dealing with somebody who thinks that the 8% (or whatever) of the MSM that isn't controlled by the left needs a watchdog like Crooks & Liars. There. You finally have it. That's why we LOAO every time you link them. It ain't the non-left media that needs watching.

And, it is about the language. Otherwise, why would the perpetually offended left be up in arms because Trump called a fat girl fat? Didn't you even post something about that? There was nothing about sex in _that_ observation. Nor was there in countless other incidents that you Progs pi$$ed & moaned about on this thread.

Nice try at deflection.

And yet when Bill's Wife is shown to be just as foul-mouthed, racist and sexist, if not more than Trump, crickets. Coming from you, I shouldn't be surprised.

Clear enough? 

And, how you translate any of that braggadocio between a couple of meatheads into a sexual assault confession is beyond me. I guess it takes the finely tuned mind of a Prog or a MSM journalist (but I repeat myself) to connect those entirely disparate points. 

Sounds to me like he's bemoaning the fact that he couldn't get what he wanted from the first & was fantasizing about another. In crude terms? Absolutely. Confessing to assault? Get a grip...



CubaMark said:


> Don't mumble something unintelligible into the microphone.


----------



## FeXL

The system _is_ rigged. Period. Between voting machines changing Rep votes to Dems, voter fraud (illegal aliens, multiple votes/person, dead people voting, etc) and a MSM that fully endorses & supports the Dems, the system is definitely rigged. Can you not see that?

If Trump does win it'll be because he had sufficient numbers to overcome even all these obstacles.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If Trump wins, will you still believe the system is rigged? Or is it only rigged if he loses?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> OK, I'll elaborate: Fukc you.


This is about where I stopped reading. A little decorum, please. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The system _is_ rigged. Period. Between voting machines changing Rep votes to Dems, voter fraud (illegal aliens, multiple votes/person, dead people voting, etc) and a MSM that fully endorses & supports the Dems, the system is definitely rigged. Can you not see that?
> 
> 
> 
> If Trump does win it'll be because he had sufficient numbers to overcome even all these obstacles.



Do you believe the system was rigged in 2000, when George W Bush won?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

If you would have read further you would have discovered the reason for the decorum I delivered...



Freddie_Biff said:


> This is about where I stopped reading. A little decorum, please.


----------



## FeXL

You first. Can you not see this election is rigged against the Republican candidate?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you believe the system was rigged in 2000, when George W Bush won?


----------



## FeXL

How Bad Is The Media’s Trump BASHING? New Study REVEALS The STUNNING Truth!



> _Out of 569 such statements about the health or prospects of Trump’s campaign, 85% (486) were negative, vs. 15% (83) that were positive. For Clinton, the spin was reversed: out of 432 assessments of her status in the race, 62% (268) were positive, vs. just 38% (164) that were negative._​


Nope. Not rigged at all...


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read.

The Tempest and the Witch



> As the witch Sycorax was an unseen threat to Prospero’s well-laid order, Hillary Clinton and the liberal establishment represent a covert threat not only to the Constitution's fundamental law but also to the ideal of democracy itself. *The purpose of our republican form of government is to deny legitimate office to illegitimate power, because once political power has become entrenched, its administrators will always find the means, through a general disregard of constitutional order, to perpetuate their advantage and self-interests through their appropriated rule-making authority.* Democracies decline in this manner too easily into one-party rule and ultimately into a species of despotism, whether a despotism of the many, the few, or the one, as in the Venezuelan model. It would be unwise to deem ourselves invulnerable to this historical imperative.


M'bold.

Related (this'll make Prog heads explode):

Ann Coulter: Our New Country — Women and Minorities Hit Hardest



> In 2012, working-class whites sat out the election, rather than vote for the out-of-touch rich guy they saw in Mitt Romney. This year, the out-of-touch rich guys say they’ll vote for Hillary because Trump is tacky and gross.
> 
> The sad irony is that the only people who will be better off in our new country are mostly white plutocrats — the top .01 percent. The rest of us will be their servants.
> 
> The people who will be worse off are everybody else — *the working class, the middle class (who will soon be working class) and, most of all, women, minorities, children, the elderly, the weakest and most vulnerable members of society.*


M'bold.

But that will work perfectly into the socialists little plan. The more people they can force to be dependent on gov't handouts, the more people they control...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> If you would have read further you would have discovered the reason for the decorum I delivered...



If you wouldn't have resorted to such a childish response, I would have read further. 


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## FeXL

CBS4 Investigation Finds People Voting Twice



> An ongoing CBS4 voter fraud investigation has uncovered a dozen cases where Coloradans are suspected of voting twice. Previous CBS4 Investigations revealed ballots cast in the names of Coloradans who had been dead for months– sometimes years- before votes were cast in their names.


Yes, there are Republican voters in the story, too. In all the articles I've read on the topic, however, it's mostly a Democratic problem.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> How Bad Is The Media’s Trump BASHING? New Study REVEALS The STUNNING Truth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Not rigged at all...



Perhaps if Mr. Trump didn't present himself as such a complete imbecile and lie just about every time he opens his mouth, he might have more credibility. His narcissism is the only thing sustaining him at this point. Ever read Macbeth? It's a lot like that.


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## FeXL

No less childish than his conduct towards me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you wouldn't have resorted to such a childish response, I would have read further.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

http://newsthump.com/2016/10/27/des...-donald-trump-down-to-his-last-six-horcruxes/


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## FeXL

Jeezuz... When was the last time Bill's Wife opened her piehole & didn't tell a lie? :yikes:

Have you been reading anything I've been posting about her at all?



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...lie just about every time he opens his mouth, he might have more credibility.


----------



## screature

The thing is that, what will be will be.

It is always has been thus. It is only Donald Grump that has suggested that it could be otherwise.

If only for that reason alone the law abiding citizens of the United States should not vote for him, as he is calling into question the whole voting system of the United States of America if it is not in his favour. Such arrogance and temerity should be voted against.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> No less childish than his conduct towards me.



Your response in itself is fairy childish. "He poked me first!" Reminiscent of a Tangerine Man I can think of who whines the system is rigged if there's any chance he might lose, fair and square. 


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## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your response in itself is fairy childish. "He poked me first!" Reminiscent of a Tangerine Man I can think of who whines the system is rigged if there's any chance he might lose, fair and square.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have obviously missed something...

Where did fjnmusic go and who is Freddie_Biff?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Jeezuz... When was the last time Bill's Wife opened her piehole & didn't tell a lie? :yikes:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you been reading anything I've been posting about her at all?



Probably about as much as you've been reading from perspectives you don't agree with. I have, however, been watching and reading that lying news media. You might want to stay away from that; it contains perspectives that don't mesh with what you've been presenting here.


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## FeXL

I give what I get. You treat me with respect, you'll get it back. You wanna go play in the gutter, prepare to get dirty.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your response in itself is fairy childish.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> I have obviously missed something...
> 
> 
> 
> Where did fjnmusic go and who is Freddie_Biff?



We are twin brothers, Steve. Kind of like good Spock and evil Spock (with the goatee). It would't let me in as my old self after a time. 


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## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> The thing is that, what will be will be.
> 
> 
> 
> It is always has been thus. It is only Donald Grump that has suggested that it could be otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> If only for that reason alone the law abiding citizens of the United States should not vote for him, as he is calling into question the whole voting system of the United States of America if it is not in his favour. Such arrogance and temerity should be voted against.



Exactement. It is the poor carpenter who blames his hammer, and it is the poor hockey player who blames the officials. 


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## FeXL

The only way I can be informed on the (any) topic is to read all sides of it. Unlike you, apparently.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Probably about as much as you've been reading from perspectives you don't agree with.


Shocked. SHOCKED, I tells ya...



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...it contains perspectives that don't mesh with what you've been presenting here.


----------



## FeXL

Are you dismissing out of hand the distinct possibility that there is a broken hammer or bad or biased official?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactement. It is the poor carpenter who blames his hammer, and it is the poor hockey player who blames the officials.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi.

Interesting read.

hillary, benghazi & an ambassador's death, the lybian ground to air missiles (stingers), and "the downfall" of the assad regime



> [This] is why benghazi happened. and, why obama and hillary clinton are responsible for leaving the defenders of the benghazi mission to die. and, for one last time.-- benghazi did not involve obama issuing an order to "step down." (he did not. he did not have to. what he had to do, to get the boots on the ground was issue a "cross borders" authorization, directing u.s. troops to cross an international border in order to have rescued the benghazi mission: this he did not do, and this is what kept u.s. troops in italy.)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Are you dismissing out of hand the distinct possibility that there is a broken hammer or bad or biased official?



If there are, then I imagine they exist on both sides of the equation, Republican and Democrat. But they are not widespread or rampant. To suggest otherwise is to undermine the entire democratic process in America. 

For what it's worth, the only way Mr. Trump can say with absolute certainty that the system is rigged is if he helped rig it. 


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## FeXL

DING, DING, DING!!! We have a winnah!!!

Finally. I knew I could through to you, fjn.



Freddie_Biff said:


> To suggest otherwise is to undermine the entire democratic process in America.


<sigh> Gawd, & you were so close...



Freddie_Biff said:


> For what it's worth, the only way Mr. Trump can say with absolute certainty that the system is rigged is if he helped rig it.


----------



## FeXL

It's OK, tho. Nobody said anything about sex...

Erica Garner blasts Clinton campaign over discussions staffers had about her father’s death in WikiLeaks emails



> Erica Garner, the daughter of police chokehold victim Eric Garner, ripped the Hillary Clinton campaign in a series of tweets Thursday after new campaign emails released by WikiLeaks showed how the Democratic nominee's staffers discussed the death of her father.
> 
> “I’m troubled by the revelation that you and this campaign actually discussed ‘using’ Eric Garner … Why would you want to ‘use my dad?” Garner tweeted along with a link to emails released by WikiLeaks. *“These people will co opt anything to push their agenda...*


M'bold.

And a conservative is born...

More:



> “I'm glad you had Maya on your team to explain why you won’t be USING my dad in you f-----g gun violence piece... Black woman saved your a--,” Garner added.


Yep...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> How Bad Is The Media’s Trump BASHING? New Study REVEALS The STUNNING Truth!
> 
> Nope. Not rigged at all...


Oh man. You guys are now complaining about reality? Negative mentions of Trumps campaign may have something to do with the fact that the campaign tanked long ago due to the fallout from Trump's own behaviour. He's his own worst enemy.

But please, do go on about how reality is rigged. This is quite entertaining.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> OK, I'll elaborate: Fukc you.


Hey, FeXL, **** YOU TOO ASSHOLE!



FeXL said:


> You aren't exactly a member in good standing when it comes to defending his arguments on these boards.


Perhaps you didn't hear me the last time I said this: Just because I stop banging my head against your brick wall trying to help you understand the nature of reality does not mean that you won an argument. There just isn't any sense in torturing myself any further with you, particularly when you go off on one of your frequently nasty and insulting rants.



FeXL said:


> Plus, I'm not very interested in engaging a self-confessed hypocrite who justifies his double standards because he's weak & can't control himself when it comes to 'certain' people. That's YOUR problem. Time to put your big girl panties on & deal with it.


True. It's my problem that you get under my skin. I need to remind myself that in the end, you don't matter. You're just an internet bogeyman.



FeXL said:


> I'm also not very interested in dealing with somebody who thinks that the 8% (or whatever) of the MSM that isn't controlled by the left needs a watchdog like Crooks & Liars. There. You finally have it. That's why we LOAO every time you link them. It ain't the non-left media that needs watching.


I've repeatedly MacFury to elaborate on what C&L has gotten wrong. I'm answered with crickets. Feel free to jump in and make a case.



FeXL said:


> And, it is about the language. Otherwise, why would the perpetually offended left be up in arms because Trump called a fat girl fat? Didn't you even post something about that? There was nothing about sex in _that_ observation. Nor was there in countless other incidents that you Progs pi$$ed & moaned about on this thread.
> 
> Nice try at deflection.


Ah, here we have the exact modus operandi of the perpetually-wounded-yet-somehow-still- offensive Right. YOU are the one doing the deflecting. YOU raised the issue of Trump's "pussy" statements. I tried to help you see that it wasn't about his use of an offensive term, but rather the issue is with his admission of sexual assault. And now you go off on something about calling a woman fat. THAT's deflection.



FeXL said:


> And yet when Bill's Wife is shown to be just as foul-mouthed, racist and sexist, if not more than Trump, crickets. Coming from you, I shouldn't be surprised.


Did Hillary Clinton admit to sexually assaulting someone? 



FeXL said:


> And, how you translate any of that braggadocio between a couple of meatheads into a sexual assault confession is beyond me.


_*Trump:* "Yeah that's her with the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."_​


FeXL said:


> Sounds to me like he's bemoaning the fact that he couldn't get what he wanted from the first & was fantasizing about another. In crude terms? Absolutely. Confessing to assault? Get a grip...


For the sake of every woman who has ever been abused, let us hope you are never on the jury of her assailant.


----------



## SINC

Just finished watching the Global National news tonight and if anyone would still advise voting for Hillary Clinton, they would be an idiot. Criminal indeed. Pure evil and greed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Just finished watching the Global National news tonight and if anyone would still advise voting for Hillary Clinton, they would be an idiot. Criminal indeed. Pure evil and greed.



Perhaps you would care to explain how you justify that statement, Don. All I see is an opinion. 


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## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Just finished watching the Global National news tonight and if anyone would still advise voting for Hillary Clinton, they would be an idiot. Criminal indeed. Pure evil and greed.


If I read your recent comments correctly, Don, you're no fan of Clinton nor of Trump.

I see Clinton as the lesser of two evils, but understand the reluctance of many to cast a vote for her.

What is the option? Jill Stein? That Libertarian guy who isn't quite sure what planet he's living on? Other?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump Tower TV: because the media is biased, and if you can't beat 'em, join 'em! 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-from-trump-tower-the-ultimate-conspiracy-090020587.html





























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## FeXL

There's the CM I know & love. I knew you were hiding in there somewhere.



CubaMark said:


> Hey, FeXL, **** YOU TOO ASSHOLE!


That's your reality you're trying to pawn off as legit. It sure as hell ain't mine & it rarely coincides with what's actually happening out in the big, scary world.



CubaMark said:


> Just because I stop banging my head against your brick wall trying to help you understand the nature of reality...


BOOO!!!



CubaMark said:


> You're just an internet bogeyman.


<just shaking my head> Even after I explain it to you in detail, give you the answer in black & white, you still don't get it. It's no bloody wonder you can't understand something as complex as why alternative energy is an utter failure or why CAGW is a crock.



CubaMark said:


> I've repeatedly MacFury to elaborate on what C&L has gotten wrong.


He didn't admit to sexual assault. Period. The rest of your quote is noise.



CubaMark said:


> ...but rather the issue is with his admission of sexual assault.


Not that I'm aware. Neither did Trump. 

Is that the only thing that counts? And, if so, does it apply only to white males? Or do males with origins in the MIddle East count, too? And, if so, where's your moral outrage for all their victims worldwide? 



CubaMark said:


> Did Hillary Clinton admit to sexually assaulting someone?


At least I'd wait for evidence of a crime being committed before I hanged him.



CubaMark said:


> For the sake of every woman who has ever been abused, let us hope you are never on the jury of her assailant.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> If I read your recent comments correctly, Don, you're no fan of Clinton nor of Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> I see Clinton as the lesser of two evils, but understand the reluctance of many to cast a vote for her.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the option? Jill Stein? That Libertarian guy who isn't quite sure what planet he's living on? Other?




As Negan said recently on the Walking Dead, not making a decision IS a decision! 


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## FeXL

Gotta be bad (as in, a helluva lot worse than they're showing us) if CNN is making adjustments.

Uh-oh. Bill's Wife has been demoted to 272. 

Road to 270: CNN's latest electoral college map


----------



## FeXL

I don't have a Twitter account & I don't use Facebook so I'm a little unsure as to proper protocol. Perhaps some of you could advise me...

Is this narcissistic or what?

'Did you buy yourself a present and a cake too?' Social media baffled as Hillary wishes happy birthday to HERSELF in bizarre and tacky tweet declaring she will be president too



> Perhaps worried she wasn't going to receive many good wishes from anywhere else, Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton decided to wish herself a happy birthday, while proclaiming she would be the first woman president.
> 
> 'Happy birthday to this future president,' read a tweet posted at 9 a.m. this morning.
> 
> The reaction on social media was swift with people questioning whether Secretary Clinton realized that by tweeting from her account she was effectively congratulating herself.
> 
> Others called her 'weird', while one follower demanded she fire the campaign's social media manager for such a basic faux pas.


----------



## FeXL

Gotta be bad if even the NYT is taking note...

WikiLeaks reveals grifters sparring with each other over spoils at the Clinton Foundation



> Yesterday saw what could be the most meaningful release in the ongoing WikiLeaks saga. It so big that the New York Times, Washington Post, and other MSM pilot fish are devoting lots of space to it. In it was a 13-page memo written by Doug Band, defending his overlapping roles as fundraiser, agent for Bill Clinton speaking fees, honorary chancellorships, and other cash-generating activities and honors, and hustling founder of a big bucks consulting firm coincidentally signing up clients who are also donating to the Clinton Foundation and hiring the former president, via Band’s solicitations.


Keep 'em coming, Julian!

The best disinfectant is sunlight...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> He didn't admit to sexual assault. Period. The rest of your quote is noise.



He didn't admit to grabbing women he doesn't know by the pussy? Or just kissing them instantly, exactly like his accusers have said? You have to be a special kind of naive to believe that. 










https://www.google.ca/amp/mobile.ny...-trump-tape-transcript.amp.html?client=safari



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## SINC

CubaMark said:


> If I read your recent comments correctly, Don, you're no fan of Clinton nor of Trump.
> 
> I see Clinton as the lesser of two evils, but understand the reluctance of many to cast a vote for her.
> 
> What is the option? Jill Stein? That Libertarian guy who isn't quite sure what planet he's living on? Other?


You read correctly, but selecting evil as the lessor of evils, makes Clinton supporters as guilty as Clinton herself. Use a write-in ballot for God's sake.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump: 'We should just cancel the election' and declare me the winner - CNNPolitics.com

Not quite the American way.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you would care to explain how you justify that statement, Don. All I see is an opinion.


And all I see is reluctance to watch Global National for yourself and make up your own mind. 'Course if you support Clinton that will be a closed mind. Neither of these TWO scumbags deserve to be president.


----------



## FeXL

FFS...

First off, don't bother linking to google anything & expect me to click on it. It ain't gonna happen.

Second, don't bother linking to anything NYT. They are as welcome in my house as CBC & you should be pretty clear on that relationship.

Third, "I just start kissing them," _may_ be an admission of sexual assault, depending on circumstances. Do you know the circumstances?

Fourth, "I grabbed Miss X by the pussy," _may_ be an admission of sexual assault, depending on circumstances. Same question: Do you know the circumstances?

Fifth, "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything," is not. Trump did not say he did it. He said it could be done. I don't care how you twist it. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> He didn't admit to grabbing women he doesn't know by the pussy? Or just kissing them instantly, exactly like his accusers have said? You have to be a special kind of naive to believe that.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Use a write-in ballot for God's sake.


There may be issues with those, too. I wish there were more details in the story:

IT’S RIGGED=> Trump Supporters Discover Their Ballots Were Tossed Out by Election Officials



> Three well-respected people within the same household in my town who mailed in their ballots in favor of Trump went online to make sure their votes were counted – only to find *they were not going to be counted because the signatures on the ballot didn’t match those on their letter.* They would have never seen this if they hadn’t gone online to verify!


Links' bold.

I don't know if the sigs actually didn't match or whether that was an excuse that was used to not count them or what.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> And all I see is reluctance to watch Global National for yourself and make up your own mind. 'Course if you support Clinton that will be a closed mind. Neither of these TWO scumbags deserve to be president.



Perhaps....except that one is a sociopathic narcissist and the other is not Internet-savvy. Which particular broadcast are you referring to? They have new ones several times a day. A link would be good. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump: 'We should just cancel the election' and declare me the winner - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite the American way.



Yeah, because THAT certainly wouldn't be rigging the election. He only talks this way because he knows he will lose. And losing is only for....well....losers. And for billionaires who repeatedly file for Chapter 11 protection.


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## FeXL

Good read.

Why Trump Will Win



> The middle of the country, already restive and suspicions of anything and everything that has to do with Washington D.C., hears Trump railing against the corrupt system and how we need to “clean house.” *What is so arrogantly dismissed by the chattering elite class as bar room “unsophisticated” rhetoric, is hitting the voters across the country like a breath of fresh air and a lot of “you’re damn right, Trump!” exhortations.*
> 
> There is another audience here as well; Trump is not a Republican in any sense of what we are used to. *He is really nonpolitical, so his audience, again, is not the Paul Ryan-Mitt Romney class, but the dissatisfied, concerned, pissed off, and anyone else who feels the country is going in the wrong direction.* And remember, that number is upwards of 70%, which obviously includes a lot of independents and Democrats.


My bold.

The left is missing or outright ignoring this dissatisfaction at their peril. Please, carry on. It's too late for you now.


----------



## FeXL

I don't know why you bang on about this. What's your point?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And for billionaires who repeatedly file for Chapter 11 protection.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FFS...
> 
> 
> 
> First off, don't bother linking to google anything & expect me to click on it. It ain't gonna happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Second, don't bother linking to anything NYT. They are as welcome in my house as CBC & you should be pretty clear on that relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> Third, "I just start kissing them," _may_ be an admission of sexual assault, depending on circumstances. Do you know the circumstances?
> 
> 
> 
> Fourth, "I grabbed Miss X by the pussy," _may_ be an admission of sexual assault, depending on circumstances. Same question: Do you know the circumstances?
> 
> 
> 
> Fifth, "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything," is not. Trump did not say he did it. He said it could be done. I don't care how you twist it.



I know you don't like links you didn't find. That's why I posted a screen shot—less effort for you. 

If you take Trump's comments, which he didn't deny, by the way, and only reluctantly apologized for like a kid with his hand in the cookie jar, and compare them to the ten plus women and their first hand testimonies, you start see a picture, or what the courts call a "preponderance of evidence." I suppose you'd say that all of Bill Cosby's accusers must have been lying as well.


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I don't know why you bang on about this. What's your point?



Because the biggest thing in a bigly way that Trump cannot handle being called is a LOSER, which is ironic when he's had to declare bankruptcy at least four times. And he will LOSE BIGLY again on November 8. 


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## screature

Holly smokes! I consider myself a conservative in Canada but there is no way in hell I would vote for Grump if I lived in the US. By his own words he is a hedonist, misogynist, megalomaniac, a sexist and a racist who is not willing to accept the democratic vote of the people of the US and has already called the result into question even before it has happened and still people want to vote for him. To me it is just unbelievable and shows what a sorry state of affairs the US is in right now.

That some Canadians seem to think that the world will be better off with Grump as President I simply cannot understand, except for blind ideology as the only motivation that I can see.

I thought it was scary enough that a large segment of the US supports Grump, I find it even scarier that some Canadians are supporters as well.

Never mind all the past of both candidates, just look at what they have been saying since the election period has begun. If one simply looks at what has been said the choice is clear IMO. One is an, ignorant hedonist, megalomaniac, misogynist, racist son of a bitch. The other one may be a bitch but she is at least competent in her understanding of the world when it comes to domestic and international politics.


----------



## FeXL

What a crock. I'll click on almost any link, save anything from google or the NYT. Add to that a few from the Climate Fruit Loop & Whacko camp, anything from reddit & a couple odds & sods, that's it. And, there was no need for a screenshot, CM had the full quote in a post earlier in this conversation.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I know you don't like links you didn't find.


What's to deny? That he had a ribald conversation? At least he didn't lie about it & attempt to cover it up like Bill's Wife has her whole life.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you take Trump's comments, which he didn't deny, by the way, ...


So, he apologized then. What's the issue?



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...and only reluctantly apologized for like a kid with his hand in the cookie jar,


You see a picture of what, exactly? A "preponderance of evidence" of what? Talking out of his ass? No argument. Until he is convicted of sexual assault in a court of law, however, it means nothing.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...and compare them to the ten plus women and their first hand testimonies, you start see a picture, or what the courts call a "preponderance of evidence."


Dunno. Never followed it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I suppose you'd say that all of Bill Cosby's accusers must have been lying as well.


----------



## FeXL

So he declared bankruptcy. So what? Many entrepreneurs do. It's part of the risk of being in business. What's the big deal?



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...he's had to declare bankruptcy at least four times.


----------



## FeXL

Thank you for your opinion.



screature said:


> Holly smokes! ...


----------



## Kami

FeXL said:


> There may be issues with those, too. I wish there were more details in the story:
> 
> IT’S RIGGED=> Trump Supporters Discover Their Ballots Were Tossed Out by Election Officials
> 
> 
> 
> Links' bold.
> 
> I don't know if the sigs actually didn't match or whether that was an excuse that was used to not count them or what.


You need to read the actual statement. The ballots were not thrown out. It says "This *may *result in your ballot not being counted..." Doesn't mean that the ballots were tossed. 

The fact that signatures are actually checked against a voter registration card is a huge improvement over what typically happens in Canada. 

The onus is on the individual to prove their identity. Isn't this what we all want??


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Holly smokes! I consider myself a conservative in Canada but there is no way in hell I would vote for Grump if I lived in the US. By his own words he is a hedonist, misogynist, megalomaniac, a sexist and a racist who is not willing to accept the democratic vote of the people of the US and has already called the result into question even before it has happened and still people want to vote for him. To me it is just unbelievable and shows what a sorry state of affairs the US is in right now.
> 
> 
> 
> That some Canadians seem to think that the world will be better off with Grump as President I simply cannot understand, except for blind ideology as the only motivation that I can see.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was scary enough that a large segment of the US supports Grump, I find it even scarier that some Canadians are supporters as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind all the past of both candidates, just look at what they have been saying since the election period has begun. If one simply looks at what has been said the choice is clear IMO. One is an, ignorant hedonist, megalomaniac, misogynist, racist son of a bitch. The other one may be a bitch but she is at least competent in her understanding of the world when it comes to domestic and international politics.




 Nailed it. 


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So he declared bankruptcy. So what? Many entrepreneurs do. It's part of the risk of being in business. What's the big deal?



It's a big deal because it makes him a LOSER. Just like he prefers soldiers who weren't captured, I prefer businessmen who don't bankrupt their businesses. Several times. Or renege on paying the contracts they signed in good faith. The big deal is the irony of it all. Trump criticizes very strongly those aspects in other people that he is ashamed of in himself. Some call it a pivot, I call it redirecting to pathetically try to make himself look better. He criticizes Bill for his affairs because he knows he's guilty of worse. He calls the election rigged because he knows he would rig it if he hasn't already, as evidenced by his failure to pay income tax. He talk about making America great again yet buys his supplies from the lowest bidder overseas. He is a complete hypocrite, a pile of contradictions rolled into one Tangerine mess.


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## screature

Kami said:


> You need to read the actual statement. The ballots were not thrown out. It says "This *may *result in your ballot not being counted..." Doesn't mean that the ballots were tossed.
> 
> *The fact that signatures are actually checked against a voter registration card is a huge improvement over what typically happens in Canada. *
> 
> The onus is on the individual to prove their identity. Isn't this what we all want??


I really don't think that actually happens in the US or anywhere. It would be far too time consuming to check and how could a volunteer have enough experience to be a judge of such a matter.

I really doubt the validity of your claim, if it were even half way true then my signature would be voided 9 times out of 10 because my signature is almost always different, as are most people's.

If what you say were true then the two signatures would have to be grossly different unless you signed Captain America when your real name is Capitán América, then it would be understandable.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Thank you for your opinion.


Thank you for your response.

Aside from this nonsense that we can do nothing about, I hope you are doing well FeXL.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps....except that one is a sociopathic narcissist and the other is not Internet-savvy. Which particular broadcast are you referring to? They have new ones several times a day. A link would be good.


Global National produces only one newscast per day that airs at different times in different area of the country. I refer to the October 27, 2016 edition. Your comments fit only a particular Global station's local newscasts. You will have to browse through the video to find the piece on Clinton.

WATCH: Global National – October 27 - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## Dr.G.

" "Just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump," he quipped during a rally in Toledo, Ohio.

Also telling: Trump donated just $31,000 to his campaign in early October despite promises to give up to $100 million to his campaign, according to a fundraising report filed Thursday."

Why throw good money at an election that you might be given?????????

Donald Trump's tough path to the White House - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

America finally got some good economic growth ................ thanks, in part, to the massive sales of the red "Make America Great Again" hats.

"The U.S. economy expanded at a 2.9% annual rate from July through September compared with the same time a year ago -- the fastest economic growth in two years. 

It was the last reading on economic growth before the election, and it came as welcome news: Growth was sluggish in the first half of the year, averaging just above 1%. 

American shoppers continued to drive growth while business spending was less of a drag. Consumer confidence hit a nine-year high in September, according to the Conference Board. "

U.S. economy posts best growth in 2 years - Oct. 28, 2016


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Gonna miss this guy. 

https://youtu.be/XvgnOqcCYCM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Global National produces only one newscast per day that airs at different times in different area of the country. I refer to the October 27, 2016 edition. Your comments fit only a particular Global station's local newscasts. You will have to browse through the video to find the piece on Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Global National – October 27 - National | Globalnews.ca




Sorry, but I can't even remember what I'm supposed to be looking for. Perhaps you could briefly describe what "criminal activities" you think Hillary has been involved in. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry, but I can't even remember what I'm supposed to be looking for. Perhaps you could briefly describe what "criminal activities" you think Hillary has been involved in.


Not a chance, there is only one clip in the 30 minute newscast that refers to Clinton's criminal activities. I got you the link, now do the work to find it.


----------



## Rps

Agreed. Sinc, here's one of the best election ads I've seen this year, hope the link works...

https://youtu.be/wzjRwNUQDRU


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Not a chance, there is only one clip in the 30 minute newscast that refers to Clinton's criminal activities. I got you the link, now do the work to find it.



See, that's where none of you alt-right commentators would ever let me off the hook. If you're going to offer vague generalities as criticism, it's really your responsibility to explain yourself. I did eventually find the segment you speak of, but saw nothing particularly compelling regarding Hillary. There was a reference to "Bill Clinton, Inc." but only a fleeting mention of Wikileaks and e-mails, and certainly no mention of anything criminal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Hillary Clinton could be recorded murdering, cooking and eating a baby and the video released on WikiLeaks. The Democrat Party would get angry because the Russians must have released the video. Some Democrat voters would say it's not a real baby. Others would say it's not really Hillary. ABC news would want her to share the recipe for their morning show. The FBI would say "there was no intent" to eat the baby, so no prosecution is recommended.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary Clinton could be recorded murdering, cooking and eating a baby and the video released on WikiLeaks. The Democrat Party would get angry because the Russians must have released the video. Some Democrat voters would say it's not a real baby. Others would say it's not really Hillary. ABC news would want her to share the recipe for their morning show. The FBI would say "there was no intent" to eat the baby, so no prosecution is recommended.



That's actually pretty funny, especially the recipe part. But it's also fabcricated for the purpose of making this joke. Donald Trump, on the other hand, really is going to court for raping a 13 year old, really did explain his MO for sexually assaulting women, and at least 12 women have come forward to verify that MO he was so "braggadocious" about. See the difference? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Gonna miss this guy.
> 
> https://youtu.be/XvgnOqcCYCM
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha! Good one.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Agreed. Sinc, here's one of the best election ads I've seen this year, hope the link works...
> 
> https://youtu.be/wzjRwNUQDRU


That is just too funny! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> Aside from this nonsense that we can do nothing about, I hope you are doing well FeXL.


Running around like a cat trying to cover crap on a tin roof: packing dirt for miles. 

You?


----------



## Dr.G.

Joe Biden on Clinton's Secretary of State list, sources say - CNNPolitics.com

An excellent choice. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump , suggests anti-Trump bus - CNNPolitics.com

:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump , suggests anti-Trump bus - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> :lmao::clap::lmao:


The Danes lost their 'nads long ago--looks good on 'em!


----------



## Dr.G.

macfury said:


> the danes lost their 'nads long ago--looks good on 'em!


----------



## Macfury

FBI re-opening investigation into Clinton e-mail scandal:

FBI Says It Will Investigate New Emails From Clinton's Server - NBC News


----------



## Rps

screature said:


> That is just too funny! :lmao:


Screature, I would vote for this guy just based on the ad! We need more of this than the attacks we have seen on both sides of the border lately.


----------



## SINC

FBI Says It Is Reviewing More Emails Related To Hillary Clinton Investigation | Huffington Post


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> FBI Says It Is Reviewing More Emails Related To Hillary Clinton Investigation | Huffington Post


Sinc, depending on your political bent, it has either started late or started soon......but I don't think this will go away any time soon........Hillary now has her own Monica.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/MadlyOddNews/videos/1284630141568500/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

At times, a fine idea. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/MadlyOddNews/videos/1284630141568500/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
> 
> 
> 
> At times, a fine idea. Paix, mes amis.



No "agruement" there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

*OMFG Apple has its hand into eveything now...*

I own Apple shares so I hope they do well but Jesus I wish Steve Jobs was back at the helm of Apple.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Screature, I would vote for this guy just based on the ad! We need more of this than the attacks we have seen on both sides of the border lately.


The irony or sarcasm is understood and I know where you are coming from and what you mean.

But I still would not vote for that guy.

He is just too white and old.  ...


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> No "agruement" there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> The irony or sarcasm is understood and I know where you are coming from and what you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> But I still would not vote for that guy.
> 
> 
> 
> He is just too white and old.  ...



But at least he cares about law stuff. Unlike Mr. Tangerine Man. 

Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
Build a wall for me
And make America great again
I'm begging you

Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
Send a Tweet for me
The Apprentice or Miss Universe
I'm following you

(with apologies to Bob Dylan)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> But at least he cares about law stuff. Unlike Mr. Tangerine Man.
> 
> Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
> Build a wall for me
> And make America great again
> I'm begging you
> 
> Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
> Send a Tweet for me
> The Apprentice or Miss Universe
> I'm following you
> 
> (with apologies to Bob Dylan)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao:


----------



## SINC

Well anything by whiney Dylan means nothing to me and he is a disgrace to the Nobel "literature" award.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> But at least he cares about law stuff. Unlike Mr. Tangerine Man.
> 
> Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
> Build a wall for me
> And make America great again
> I'm begging you
> 
> Hey Mr. Tangerine Man
> Send a Tweet for me
> The Apprentice or Miss Universe
> I'm following you
> 
> (with apologies to Bob Dylan)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeP4FFr88SQ[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well anything by whiney Dylan means nothing to me and he is a disgrace to the Nobel "literature" award.



Yeah, that's about what I thought you might say. I'll be here all week. Try the veal. And remember to tip your waitress.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeP4FFr88SQ[/ame]




Noyce! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Noyce!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

BREAKING: Libertarian Party Concedes Election, Stuns America With 2016 Endorsement


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> BREAKING: Libertarian Party Concedes Election, Stuns America With 2016 Endorsement


If this is true, I find it hard to believe. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> BREAKING: Libertarian Party Concedes Election, Stuns America With 2016 Endorsement



"Unregistered sex offender." Bada Bing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> "Unregistered sex offender." Bada Bing.


Remember, no matter who is elected, one gets into the White House in the form of either Donald or Bill. Bada Bing!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Remember, no matter who is elected, one gets into the White House in the form of either Donald or Bill. Bada Bing!



"Gets into the White House." Bill is not a sex offender, unregistered or otherwise. Donald raped a 13 year old and molested countless others. Not even in the same ball park. And in event, it's HILLARY who's running for President, not Bill. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

How naive, it is Billary who will rule.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> How naive, it is Billary who will rule.



How naive, to imagine that Trump even remotely has any of the qualifications necessary for public office. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> How naive, to imagine that Trump even remotely has any of the qualifications necessary for public office.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, not to be argumentative, but what qualifications did Obama have, how about Kennedy, and the list goes on.......... Mike Huckabee said a number of years ago during the Republican Primary that he and a select few others were the only Republican candidates worthy of nomination.....why....because they were governors. That makes sense to me.....Trump, nor Hiliary are qualified in my eyes.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> "Gets into the White House." Bill is not a sex offender, unregistered or otherwise. Donald raped a 13 year old and molested countless others. Not even in the same ball park. And in event, it's HILLARY who's running for President, not Bill.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As a aside, where is the credible report that Trump raped a 13 year old.......please don't say the Huffington Post, you might as well say Facebook if it is!


----------



## CubaMark

*Someone Was Actually Arrested For In-Person Voter Fraud. She's A Trump Supporter.*

Donald Trump regularly claims that the presidential election is “rigged” against him, thanks in part to “all too common” instances of voter fraud. “Watch Philadelphia. Watch St. Louis. Watch Chicago, watch Chicago. Watch so many other places,” the GOP nominee urged his supporters at a recent rally.

Election experts typically respond by pointing out that instances of fraud by voters at the polls are actually remarkably rare.

But they do happen. Case in point: Police in Des Moines, Iowa, said Friday that they had arrested Terri Lynn Rote, 55, on suspicion of voting twice in the general election.

Rote, a registered Republican, allegedly submitted ballots at two different early-voting locations in Polk County, Iowa, according to local media reports. She has been charged with first-degree election misconduct, a felony.

“I wasn’t planning on doing it twice. It was a spur of the moment,” Rote told Iowa Public Radio. “The polls are rigged.” She said she feared her first vote for Trump would be changed to a vote for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.​
(HuffPo)


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> As a aside, where is the credible report that Trump raped a 13 year old.......please don't say the Huffington Post, you might as well say Facebook if it is!


Those reports are every bit as credible as the Hillary clip talking about rigging elections in Palestine. To put it mildly this election features the scum de la scum. 

If it was just the presidency on the line I think the turnout would be well be well below 30%. However Congressional, and Senate seats are on the line as well as state and local offices, and various ballot issues. 

Interesting to note that almost no-one is inviting either Hillary or Donald to boost their Senate or House campaigns.


----------



## Rps

eMacman, I agree with the quality of candidate but my polling buddies are finding some interesting trends....and most don't think this election will be as easy a walk for the Dems as the pundits have broadcast. Trump may surprise.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> eMacman, I agree with the quality of candidate but my polling buddies are finding some interesting trends....and most don't think this election will be as easy a walk for the Dems as the pundits have broadcast. Trump may surprise.


Yes, Rp, your last comment is what scares me the most. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

https://www.johnsonweld.com/statement_by_gov_bill_weld_regarding_the_final_weeks_election



> “Several web sites and media outlets have seized upon Governor Bill Weld’s statement from a news conference Tuesday in Boston to jump to conclusions that are wishful thinking, rather than reality.
> 
> “Led by Occupy Democrats, a well-known mouthpiece for the left, the sensationalists and wishful thinkers are re-writing Gov. Weld’s forceful condemnation of Donald Trump into a suggestion that voters should support Hillary Clinton. That is absurd.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> As a aside, where is the credible report that Trump raped a 13 year old.......please don't say the Huffington Post, you might as well say Facebook if it is!



There is the upcoming court appearance in December, postponed from October. He has also admitted to soliciting an underage girl in 2008. 










http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ng-girl-13-december-hearing-article-1.2828413


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank, not to be argumentative, but what qualifications did Obama have, how about Kennedy, and the list goes on.......... Mike Huckabee said a number of years ago during the Republican Primary that he and a select few others were the only Republican candidates worthy of nomination.....why....because they were governors. That makes sense to me.....Trump, nor Hiliary are qualified in my eyes.




Well Rps, I'd start with basic intelligence and familiarity with the law and the Constitution, all qualities that Trump clearly lacks. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well Rps, I'd start with basic intelligence and familiarity with the law and the Constitution, all qualities that Trump clearly lacks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sad, but VERY true.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well Rps, I'd start with basic intelligence and familiarity with the law and the Constitution, all qualities that Trump clearly lacks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You mean like not running classified information on a private server? Or, how does Whitewater sound to you? Trump and Clinton are legendary with their dealings......wouldn't want either as my President. There is a line in the movie Dave where Dave says " I should care more about you than I do about me" Trump and Clinton can't say that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> You mean like not running classified information on a private server? Or, how does Whitewater sound to you? Trump and Clinton are legendary with their dealings......wouldn't want either as my President. There is a line in the movie Dave where Dave says " I should care more about you than I do about me" Trump and Clinton can't say that.



Fair enough, but sexual assault including the rape of a 13 year old trumps e-mail in my books any day of the week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Oh, this re-opening of the investigation into Bill's Wife is getting scrumptious... :love2:

Hey, fjn, if the Clinton's are moving nearly two billion bucks into an overseas account located in a country with a non-extradition treaty with the US, does that mean Bill's Wife thinks she's going to lose? Or is she just getting ready to bail in case this next investigation reveals a little more than the first one did?

Jes' askin'...

Hillary Planning Her Escape After a Trump Win With a $1.8 BILLION Money Transfer to QATAR



> It appears Bill and Hillary Clinton are making plans to flee the country in the event Donald Trump wins this election. Reports are circulating that the Clinton’s have transferred 1.8 Billion dollars from the Clinton Foundation to the Qatar Central Bank via a facilitation/abatement of JP Morgan Chase & Company for reasons not revealed.
> 
> *This move of such a large sum of money to the country of Qatar says in itself Hillary Clinton knows she is going to lose the election, and she doesn’t plan to allow her or Bill to be prosecuted for various high crimes and treason under a Trump Administration.*


M'bold.

From a link inside:



> Critical Note: A highly classified SVR amendment to this MoF report states that upon Qatar receiving Hillary Clinton’s $1.8 billion earlier today, one of that sheikdoms royal places was “ordered emptied” in preparation for the “early November arrival” of a “high value” dignitary—Hillary Clinton perhaps?


Time to start pulling passports...


----------



## CubaMark

:yikes:



*O, Bernie, Where Art Thou?*





XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Oh, this re-opening of the investigation into Bill's Wife is getting scrumptious... :love2:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, fjn, if the Clinton's are moving nearly two billion bucks into an overseas account located in a country with a non-extradition treaty with the US, does that mean Bill's Wife thinks she's going to lose? Or is she just getting ready to bail in case this next investigation reveals a little more than the first one did?
> 
> 
> 
> Jes' askin'...
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Planning Her Escape After a Trump Win With a $1.8 BILLION Money Transfer to QATAR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> From a link inside:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to start pulling passports...



Well if there were a chance she would lose the election, your comment might have merit. But Donald Trump is going to get creamed, so it doesn't really matter. You keep dreamin'. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Quick math question: which number is bigger? 33,000 or 22,000,000?

















http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html


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----------



## SINC

Ah got it, two wrongs make it right.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

HAH!!!

You poor, uninformed fool. You really have no clue, do you? What's it like to be in an ideologically-induced coma? 

Slowly, surely, Bill's Wife's teflon coat is shedding itself. When even the US MSM is starting to take note, her days are numbered.

I'll accept your apology on these boards in 10 days...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well if there were a chance she would lose the election, your comment might have merit. But Donald Trump is going to get creamed, so it doesn't really matter. You keep dreamin'.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well if there were a chance she would lose the election, your comment might have merit. But Donald Trump is going to get creamed, so it doesn't really matter. You keep dreamin'.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, don't be too sure, my polling buddies only have the two within 3pts of each other. Michigan, Penn and Ohio and Florida are very much in play for Trump, so don't be surprised if you are surprised.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Frank, don't be too sure, my polling buddies only have the two within 3pts of each other. Michigan, Penn and Ohio and Florida are very much in play for Trump, so don't be surprised if you are surprised.


:-ptptptptpXX)XX)XX)


----------



## Kami

FeXL said:


> Oh, this re-opening of the investigation into Bill's Wife is getting scrumptious... :love2:
> 
> Hey, fjn, if the Clinton's are moving nearly two billion bucks into an overseas account located in a country with a non-extradition treaty with the US, does that mean Bill's Wife thinks she's going to lose? Or is she just getting ready to bail in case this next investigation reveals a little more than the first one did?
> 
> Jes' askin'...
> 
> Hillary Planning Her Escape After a Trump Win With a $1.8 BILLION Money Transfer to QATAR
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> From a link inside:
> 
> 
> 
> Time to start pulling passports...


Do you ever bother to check the source of the stories that you post?

Hillary Clinton's 'Sudden Move' of $1.8 Billion to Qatar Central Bank Stuns Financial World : snopes.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Kami said:


> Do you ever bother to check the source of the stories that you post?
> 
> Hillary Clinton's 'Sudden Move' of $1.8 Billion to Qatar Central Bank Stuns Financial World : snopes.com


Good point, Kami. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Kami said:


> Do you ever bother to check the source of the stories that you post?


No, he doesn't. FeXL has a long history of pulling "facts" from wacko websites. And he never retracts his postings of that fake material when he's called on it - he leaves it for the next weak-brained conspiracy theory consumer to absorb and regurgitate.

But whattaya going to do... some people are incorrigible.


----------



## FeXL

I trust Snopes like I trust CBC: NOT.

They both twist, turn, ignore & obfuscate facts to the point that the original story is unrecognizable.



Kami said:


> Do you ever bother to check the source of the stories that you post?


----------



## FeXL

Three words: Tim Ball. Hypocrite...



CubaMark said:


> FeXL has a long history of pulling "facts" from wacko websites.


----------



## Macfury

George Bush is not running for office, Hillary is.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Quick math question: which number is bigger? 33,000 or 22,000,000?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> 
> 
> HAH!!!
> 
> 
> 
> You poor, uninformed fool. You really have no clue, do you? What's it like to be in an ideologically-induced coma?
> 
> 
> 
> Slowly, surely, Bill's Wife's teflon coat is shedding itself. When even the US MSM is starting to take note, her days are numbered.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll accept your apology on these boards in 10 days...



Fool. Apologize to you? For what? You've shown me what it's like to be in an ideologically-induced coma, and you appear to be pretty content. Clinton 270 plus, compared to about 105currently for Trump in solid states. You do realize how US elections work, don't you? Perhaps not. You'll find out soon enough.

And since the question appeared to be too difficult for you, here's the answer:

22,000,000 > 33,000

Like, about 666 times greater. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank, don't be too sure, my polling buddies only have the two within 3pts of each other. Michigan, Penn and Ohio and Florida are very much in play for Trump, so don't be surprised if you are surprised.



Right now, Florida is leaning blue, and if Trump doesn't get Florida, he's done like dinner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

NY Times/Sienna College Poll:

https://www.siena.edu/assets/files/news/FLUpshot1016_Crosstabs_245.pdf

Trump up 4 in Florida.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Right now, Florida is leaning blue, and if Trump doesn't get Florida, he's done like dinner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> NY Times/Sienna College Poll:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.siena.edu/assets/files/news/FLUpshot1016_Crosstabs_245.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Trump up 4 in Florida.



You're sure about that? 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You're sure about that?


No, the polls are sure of it. You guy is not keeping up.


----------



## Kami

FeXL said:


> I trust Snopes like I trust CBC: NOT.
> 
> They both twist, turn, ignore & obfuscate facts to the point that the original story is unrecognizable.


So if you don't trust a web site that posts the references for you to check independently then why don't you at least double check the original story that posted? It wouldn't have been hard to see that the story was false. You could have checked the background of the author of the story you posted. You could have used your own common sense and wondered out loud "$1.8 billion is a lot of money, in the range of what Mr. Trump has... does this make any sense?"

The more factual one is, the easier it is have a meaningful discussion/debate


----------



## Dr.G.

Kami said:


> So if you don't trust a web site that posts the references for you to check independently then why don't you at least double check the original story that posted? It wouldn't have been hard to see that the story was false. You could have checked the background of the author of the story you posted. You could have used your own common sense and wondered out loud "$1.8 billion is a lot of money, in the range of what Mr. Trump has... does this make any sense?"
> 
> The more factual one is, the easier it is have a meaningful discussion/debate


Valid points, Kami. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Right now, Florida is leaning blue, and if Trump doesn't get Florida, he's done like dinner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, I trust my guys. I do agree that Trump needs Florida. But Clinton needs Michigan more...if she looses that she will also loose Penn and Ohio. Right now my guys are calling it too close to call.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Frank, I trust my guys. I do agree that Trump needs Florida. But Clinton needs Michigan more...if she looses that she will also loose Penn and Ohio. Right now my guys are calling it too close to call.


Also valid points, Rp. Right now, no one can afford to lose any of these important states. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank, I trust my guys. I do agree that Trump needs Florida. But Clinton needs Michigan more...if she looses that she will also loose Penn and Ohio. Right now my guys are calling it too close to call.



It's close in some places, true, but places like New York and California always have a HUUUUGE impact, moreso than the interior states, just due to populations and electoral college votes. It's like trying to become Prime Minister in Canada without the support of Ontario and Quebec. You need at least one if not both. We shall see. 


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## Freddie_Biff

An interesting comment from my Facebook feed for people who claim both candidates are "just as bad." 


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content











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----------



## Dr.G.

Trump rally-goer yells anti-Semitic chant - CNN Video

Some more scary news from the Trump rallies.


----------



## CubaMark

You know what's an actual, real problem? Not voter _fraud_. Voter _suppression_. 

Here's just one example:

*Wisconsin Clerk Caught Blocking Campus Voting &"Cuz Students "Lean Democrat"*

A Wisconsin city clerk has been caught refusing to set up an early polling place at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay campus because students “lean towards more Democrat.” In an August 26th email, clerk Kris Teske – appointed by Gov. Scott Walker ally Mayor Jim Schmitt – told state Rep. Eric Genrich (D-Green Bay) that she had concerns about setting up an early polling location on the Green Bay campus because of its partisan leanings and potential cost.

_“I don’t like the idea at all for many reasons: Staffing, ballot security, budget, etc…UWGB is a polling location for students and residents on Election Day but I feel by asking for this to be the site for early voting is encouraging the students to vote more than benefiting the city as a whole. I have heard it said that students lean more toward the democrats and he (Genrich) is a democrat … Do I have an argument about it being more of a benefit to the democrats? I have spoken with our Chief of Staff and others at City Hall and they agree that budget wise this isn’t going to happen.”_​
The campus was a site of voter controversy during the primary, when student voters were outraged over long lines that made voters wait hours to cast their ballots and all-around and “chaotic” organization, complicated by the stringent voter ID laws passed by Republican Governor Scott Walker.

Mayor Schmitt himself was charged in September with three counts of violating campaign finance laws.​
(OccupyDemocrats / see also MSNBC)


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> As a aside, where is the credible report that Trump raped a 13 year old.......please don't say the Huffington Post, you might as well say Facebook if it is!


In this imaginary world with an imaginary crime, Trump would only need hire Hillary Clinton to defend him. She would win the case by defaming the 13-year-old--and then laugh about the victory.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Three words: Tim Ball. Hypocrite...


What on earth are you talking about? I suggested he may be a wacko, you disagreed. From a quick search online (more effort than the matter deserved), there appeared to be numerous questions about his connections to the fossil fuel industry, his veracity (e.g. losing at least one libel suit when someone -correctly- called him on his supposed credentials as Canada's "first" PhD in climatology), and his science.

Here we are a year later and your nose is still out of joint. Sorry, didn't realize Tim was so sacred to you. Not sure how that makes me a hypocrite....?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> What on earth are you talking about? I suggested he may be a wacko, you disagreed. From a quick search online (more effort than the matter deserved), there appeared to be numerous questions about his connections to the fossil fuel industry, his veracity (e.g. losing at least one libel suit when someone -correctly- called him on his supposed credentials as Canada's "first" PhD in climatology), and his science.
> 
> 
> 
> Here we are a year later and your nose is still out of joint. Sorry, didn't realize Tim was so sacred to you. Not sure how that makes me a hypocrite....?




Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

To which conspiracy theory are you referring?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Looks like 'Honest Hillary's' problems are not over.

FBI Obtains Warrant for Newly Discovered Emails in Clinton Probe - as Reid Accuses Comey of Hatch Act Violation - NBC News


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Even shock-jock Howard Stern knows when someone's gone too far. 



















https://m.mic.com/articles/157119/y...F_d4c1deb09f8911e6bd3ee3ca348530db#.SNYQGADdD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Sheesh, couldn't you have resized that image? It's friggin' HUGE!

On another front some polls are claiming only a 1% difference in many states between the candidates. This is gonna be interesting. Perhaps Americans are done with the establishment and will shake up the country (and the world) in this election?


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Sheesh, couldn't you have resized that image? It's friggin' HUGE!
> 
> On another front some polls are claiming only a 1% difference in many states between the candidates. This is gonna be interesting. Perhaps Americans are done with the establishment and will shake up the country (and the world) in this election?


 As Tiny Tim once said, "God help us, everyone" if this happens. Vote Clinton. :clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Sheesh, couldn't you have resized that image? It's friggin' HUGE!
> 
> 
> 
> On another front some polls are claiming only a 1% difference in many states between the candidates. This is gonna be interesting. Perhaps Americans are done with the establishment and will shake up the country (and the world) in this election?




Size is just perfect on my iPhone. 

Happy Halloween! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

What if Trump wins? We imagine the worst-case*scenario - The Globe and Mail

XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> What if Trump wins? We imagine the worst-case*scenario - The Globe and Mail
> 
> 
> 
> XX)



Exactement, mon ami! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

> Day 77: He installs a three-metre-tall Trump marquee on the White House and begins renting out rooms in the West Wing.


This is already beyond satire: Bill and Hillary regularly rented out the Lincoln Bedroom for cash during their time in Washington.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactement, mon ami!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


tptptptp:-( Sad, but all too true, mon ami. 

This scares me just as much.

'Time for revolution': Trump's Deep South diehards ready for revolt if he loses - CBC News - Elections


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donald-trump-tax.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

"Let’s be clear: Not paying taxes does not make Donald Trump a “genius.” It does not make him “smart.” It just makes him another greedy billionaire who avoids paying his fair share of taxes when children in America go hungry, veterans sleep out on the street, and our infrastructure continues to crumble." tptptptptptptptp 

Sen. Bernie Sanders


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> tptptptp:-( Sad, but all too true, mon ami.
> 
> 
> 
> This scares me just as much.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Time for revolution': Trump's Deep South diehards ready for revolt if he loses - CBC News - Elections



Maybe an armed militia isn't such a good thing after all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe an armed militia isn't such a good thing after all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, they will say that they are now finally reading the entire second amendment. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan




----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Sheesh, couldn't you have resized that image? It's friggin' HUGE!
> 
> On another front some polls are claiming only a 1% difference in many states between the candidates. This is gonna be interesting. Perhaps Americans are done with the establishment and will shake up the country (and the world) in this election?


Yep, my polling buddies are saying the same thing Sinc. But, remember a good 25% make up their minds the week of, and 10% the day of SO look for more damage to come from both camps to try to swing those voters. The real issue I see is what do you do with Trump? If the pundits are right and he has a large spread loss no problem, but if it is close, I mean really close, he won't go away.......that may cause more damage than if he were elected. I think the Republicans could you a few lessons from Stephen Harper on how to bring the party together.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> View attachment 72562


As they say about the possibility of a Trump victory next week ........... "Be afraid ..... be very afraid." We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> As they say about the possibility of a Trump victory next week ........... "Be afraid ..... be very afraid." We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


Pretty much true of both candidates, sadly everything else about that pair rings false.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Pretty much true of both candidates, sadly everything else about that pair rings false.


Regardless of all the things said about Hillary Clinton, by Trump and some in this thread, if she becomes president, more people, especially children and women, will be helped. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, they'll be removed from prosperity to the roles of the government-dependent. They'll _need _help! The Clintons, of course, would simply help themselves--to everything,



Dr.G. said:


> Regardless of all the things said about Hillary Clinton, by Trump and some in this thread, if she becomes president, more people, especially children and women, will be helped. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, they'll be removed from prosperity to the roles of the government-dependent. They'll _need _help! The Clintons, of course, would simply help themselves--to everything,


Well, let's agree to disagree once again, mon ami. All I can say is that I am getting very nervous about next week's final results. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, let's agree to disagree once again, mon ami. All I can say is that I am getting very nervous about next week's final results. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.




Trump has the underdog part going for him (percentage wise) and that's about it. He's no underdog. If Macfury thinks the Clintons are going to take take take, he really hasn't studied the way Trump works. Thing is, anybody with a functioning brain knows Trump is not cut out for this job. It's all about being stubborn and afraid to lose. If he wins, it will be due to the ignorance of the majority of the electorate, not a triumph of the working class. I believe there are enough wise voters in the USA to outnumber the ignorant. Therefore Hillary will win. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Oh, this re-opening of the investigation into Bill's Wife is getting scrumptious... :love2:
> 
> Hey, fjn, if the Clinton's are moving nearly two billion bucks into an overseas account located in a country with a non-extradition treaty with the US, does that mean Bill's Wife thinks she's going to lose? Or is she just getting ready to bail in case this next investigation reveals a little more than the first one did?
> 
> Jes' askin'...
> 
> Hillary Planning Her Escape After a Trump Win With a $1.8 BILLION Money Transfer to QATAR


*
........ *crickets* ..........*


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump has the underdog part going for him (percentage wise) and that's about it. He's no underdog. If Macfury thinks the Clintons are going to take take take, he really hasn't studied the way Trump works. Thing is, anybody with a functioning brain knows Trump is not cut out for this job. It's all about being stubborn and afraid to lose. If he wins, it will be due to the ignorance of the majority of the electorate, not a triumph of the working class. I believe there are enough wise voters in the USA to outnumber the ignorant. Therefore Hillary will win.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Let us hope .......... and pray, that you are correct, Frank. My vote is in and has been recorded in the State of Georgia. I doubt that Clinton will win GA, but I have made my voice heard nonetheless. We shall see how this all turns out. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *
> 
> ........ *crickets* ..........*




Ya, I got nuttin'. M'bold. I'm going to assume she's taking precautions in case, you know, dee fueher becomes President. Not bloody likely though, but it's good to be prepared. Especially for debates and stuff.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ya, I got nuttin'. M'bold. I'm going to assume she's taking precautions in case, you know, dee fueher becomes President. Not bloody likely though, but it's good to be prepared. Especially for debates and stuff.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She is wearing a bullet proof vest these days. How sad. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Ku Klux Klan makes it official, endorses Donald Trump saying 'Make America Great Again'

Interesting that they waited this long to endorse Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The Ku Klux Klan makes it official, endorses Donald Trump saying 'Make America Great Again'
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that they waited this long to endorse Trump.



The Klan just want to be loved and accepted.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Klan just want to be loved and accepted.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Watching Global National News tonight they are reporting Trump leading Clinton by a scant 1% - 46% to 45%. As Yogi Berra used to say, "it ain't over 'til it's over. He may be right in this case.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Watching Global National News tonight they are reporting Trump leading Clinton by a scant 1% - 46% to 45%. As Yogi Berra used to say, "it ain't over 'til it's over. He may be right in this case.



But who will be the fat lady in this scenario? 


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## Freddie_Biff

Somehow, when I think about it now, Trump's earlier pronouncement that "you should have closed the tax loopholes that let me take advantage of them" is eerily prescient of his claim that the voting system is rigged; in other words, he can confidently say he knows it's rigged becaus because he rigged it. Though he's a bonehead about actual governance, Trump is pretty damn determined when it comes to "winning." In his world, the end always justifies the means.


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## SINC

Bottom line is that this election is too close to call, as either candidate is capable of winning.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Bottom line is that this election is too close to call, as either candidate is capable of winning.


True. Luckily, Clinton is the only candidate capable of being a true president. Hopefully, the American voters will agree with me. If not, lucky that we live in Canada. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Watching Global National News tonight they are reporting Trump leading Clinton by a scant 1% - 46% to 45%. As Yogi Berra used to say, "it ain't over 'til it's over. He may be right in this case.


It must be truly galling for Clinton, looking at the buffoon that is Trump, and realizing that they're essentially neck-and-neck, that the US voting public cannot see her as a (far) better alternative.

Think about it. How would you feel if people told you that you were no better than The Donald in character, leadership and ability?

Put that woman on suicide watch....


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> Think about it. How would you feel if people told you that you were no better than The Donald in character, leadership and ability?
> 
> Put that woman on suicide watch....


The sad truth is, that she really IS no better than Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> It must be truly galling for Clinton, looking at the buffoon that is Trump, and realizing that they're essentially neck-and-neck, that the US voting public cannot see her as a (far) better alternative.
> 
> Think about it. How would you feel if people told you that you were no better than The Donald in character, leadership and ability?
> 
> Put that woman on suicide watch....


She has also been ordered to wear a bullet proof vest for the past month or so by the Secret Service. How shocking and sad.

Hopefully, there will be a happy ending with a strong Clinton victory next week. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FUXL

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> HAH!!!
> 
> You poor, uninformed fool. You really have no clue, do you? What's it like to be in an ideologically-induced coma?
> 
> Slowly, surely, Bill's Wife's teflon coat is shedding itself. When even the US MSM is starting to take note, her days are numbered.
> 
> *I'll accept your apology on these boards in 10 days*...


Oh it's gonna be fun to watch the CON dweebs eating hat on election day night!

M'bold!tptptptp


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> She has also been ordered to wear a bullet proof vest for the past month or so by the Secret Service. How shocking and sad.
> 
> Hopefully, there will be a happy ending with a strong Clinton victory next week. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Well, I'm not a Clinton fan but I certainly hope if she wins it is by a large margin or The Donald will never go away.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well, I'm not a Clinton fan but I certainly hope if she wins it is by a large margin or The Donald will never go away.


Well, I was a Sanders supporter, switched to Clinton after the convention, voted for her in the state of Georgia, and now anxiously await the results next week. My wife, who is Canadian and cannot vote, is a nervous wreck. All I say to her is "We shall see." Deep down I am very concerned at the possibility of a Trump victory, but I shall not let it be shown to her.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Uh oh, looks like Hillary may be in big trouble now. 

FBI Sources Tell Fox News An "Indictment Is Likely" In Clinton Foundation Case | Video | RealClearPolitics

Posted from my iPhone not using tapatalk.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Uh oh, looks like Hillary may be in big trouble now.
> 
> 
> 
> FBI Sources Tell Fox News An "Indictment Is Likely" In Clinton Foundation Case | Video | RealClearPolitics
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my iPhone not using tapatalk.



That's the same FBI who put Comey in charge? The same Comey who will need to resign for violating the Hatch Act? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

You are welcome to that opinion, but an indictment is serious stuff for a presidential candidate and could sway voters away.


----------



## CubaMark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibDgSd02Xk

:clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibDgSd02Xk
> 
> 
> 
> :clap:



This frightens and arouses me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> You are welcome to that opinion, but an indictment is serious stuff for a presidential candidate and could sway voters away.



An indictment certainly is serious. However, "RealClearPolitics," as a reputable news source, does not appear to be. 


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## Macfury

RCP polling averages are used as independent sources by TV networks to assign spaces to primary candidates. They're well trusted as both an impartial news aggregator and original news source. Check out their curated article section on US politics some time--they feature paired articles arguing the same issue from two entirely different sides:

RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Video and Polls




Freddie_Biff said:


> An indictment certainly is serious. However, "RealClearPolitics," as a reputable news source, does not appear to be.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> You are welcome to that opinion, but an indictment is serious stuff for a presidential candidate and could sway voters away.


Sorry Don,

Anyone who has been following the primaries has to be aware that the DNC has the key to the computerized voting machines. You simply cannot get results that wander as much as 17% from the exit polls in any other manner. 

Hillary will win no matter what the real vote tally happens to be. From there things will follow the course blazed by Nixon. Trot out the dirt the NSA has on the VP. Once he is history, the Super Elite will see to it an appropriate puppet becomes VP. Then Hillary will be impeached and/or forced to resign.


----------



## CubaMark

(Wikileaks)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> (Wikileaks)



I don't really get why this e-mail stuff is such a big deal, including this example. OF COURSE people are going to show a different face in private than they do in public. So? When they talk about crushing Bernie Sanders, they don't mean Negan-style. When Trump talks if grabbing women by the meow, however, I'm afraid that he is speaking about what he literally DOES. Big difference. Words, actions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

It is becoming more apparent every day that people in the US have grown very tired of the status quo and especially tired of another Clinton in the White House. Add to that, many are not yet ready for a woman president and watch what happens on Tuesday. Oh, and don't be surprised by the result. ******* America is awakening, mark my words.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> It is becoming more apparent every day that people in the US have grown very tired of the status quo and especially tired of another Clinton in the White House. Add to that, many are not yet ready for a woman president and watch what happens on Tuesday. Oh, and don't be surprised by the result. ******* America is awakening, mark my words.



******* America is awakening? ******* America has been awake for far too long. ******* America needs to be put to sleep if you really want to make America great again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

An interesting read that carries much food for thought.

Why I Can No Longer Support Hillary Clinton | Huffington Post


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> ******* America is awakening? ******* America has been awake for far too long. ******* America needs to be put to sleep if you really want to make America great again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While I don't like the term "*******", I think that those who rabidly support Trump and will seek to overthrow a non-Trump government, need to stop with their rhetoric. I can't see them going back to sleep, however.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Strive to be uncynical, to be a hope-giving force, to be a steward of substance." Maria Popova


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-immense/?tid=pm_pop_b&utm_term=.e2b51ffab005

This scares me more than Trump becoming president.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-immense/?tid=pm_pop_b&utm_term=.e2b51ffab005
> 
> 
> 
> This scares me more than Trump becoming president.



The ones who vow "total war" are not really Republicans, any more than Trump is a Republican. They are anarchists who do not respect the rule of law. They are Republicans in the same way as terrorists are Christian or Muslim. They've brainwashed like any cult member has. 


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----------



## eMacMan

Ain't it da truuf.


----------



## FeXL

But Trump said "pussy"...



Freddie_Biff said:


> OF COURSE people are going to show a different face in private than they do in public. So?


----------



## FeXL

fjn, is that you?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



FUXL said:


> Oh it's gonna be fun to watch the CON dweebs eating hat on election day night!
> 
> M'bold!tptptptp


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure there's a point here...



CubaMark said:


> ........ *crickets* ..........


----------



## FeXL

That's rich, coming from the NYT. They, too, have taken advantage of the very same tax laws that Trump has.



> … for tax year 2014, The New York Times paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million even though they had a pre-tax profit of $29.9 million in 2014. In other words, their post-tax profit was higher than their pre-tax profit. The explanation in their 2014 annual report is, “The effective tax rate for 2014 was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.” If you don’t think it took fancy accountants and tax lawyers to make that happen, read the statement again.


But it's OK when the left does it...



Dr.G. said:


> "Let’s be clear: Not paying taxes does not make Donald Trump a “genius.” It does not make him “smart.” It just makes him another greedy billionaire who avoids paying his fair share of taxes when children in America go hungry, veterans sleep out on the street, and our infrastructure continues to crumble." tptptptptptptptp
> 
> Sen. Bernie Sanders


----------



## FUXL

FeXL said:


> fjn, is that you?
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


You will be apologizing for being so wrong soon enough.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> fjn, is that you?
> 
> 
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



I wish. But no, I can not take credit. 

But I do get a kick out of the info page. Location: not Alberta. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox news reported that church attendance has been up and will peak comes this Sunday. They feel that it is mainly Democrats that are trying to bring God into this election. Sadly, I don't feel that God will intervene .................... free will shall be the guiding principle for all who vote. Let us hope that they vote for Clinton. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hmmm. Who's in the legal hot seat now? 

















http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...tweets-voter-suppression-hearing-donald-trump


----------



## SINC

One p!ss ant rural judge? Bwahaha! That type of behaviour is surely outlawed by federal law at any poll in any state.


----------



## FeXL

Well, if not fjn, might be the Great Pumpkin from the east coast. Either way...

So, what evidence do you have to back up your conjecture, oh wise one? Or is it merely an ideologically-induced coma of Prog rhetoric? And, don't even bother quoting polls or other such minutia that are manipulated by the left to fulfill a predetermined outcome. 

What actual facts do you have at hand?



FUXL said:


> You will be apologizing for being so wrong soon enough.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What actual facts do you have at hand?


Do you want *facts* or "facts" ? I only ask because.....

Anyone else notice how FeXL has a habit of posting completely baseless accusations drawn from wacko websites and, when shown to be incorrect, never bothers to issue a retraction, or edit his post to acknowledge the inaccuracies, or... you know, *anything* that might help casual visitors to this forum separate fact from his fiction? XX)

Yup.... I'm beginning to think that FeXL is one of Donald Trump's many fake personas....

:lmao:


----------



## Kami

SINC said:


> One p!ss ant rural judge? Bwahaha! That type of behaviour is surely outlawed by federal law at any poll in any state.


You do realize that its a federal court judge who made the ruling?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Do you want *facts* or "facts" ? I only ask because.....
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice how FeXL has a habit of posting completely baseless accusations drawn from wacko websites and, when shown to be incorrect, never bothers to issue a retraction, or edit his post to acknowledge the inaccuracies, or... you know, *anything* that might help casual visitors to this forum separate fact from his fiction? XX)
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.... I'm beginning to think that FeXL is one of Donald Trump's many fake personas....
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



I've noticed. Apparently so has FUXL. 


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----------



## FeXL

Hey, CM...

I've posted literally thousands of links on these boards. If all you can find is a mere handful that were "wrong", I'm doing not only thousands of percent better than the MSM but every Prog on these boards, _especially_ you.

Oh, I know. Just because you don't respond, blah, blah, blah... And, I know I'm a hypocrite but, blah, blah, blah.

Tell ya what: When you become perfect, come back & criticize everybody else for their flaws. Until then, screw you...



CubaMark said:


> Do you want *facts* or "facts" ?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hey, CM...
> 
> 
> 
> I've posted literally thousands of links on these boards. If all you can find is a mere handful that were "wrong", I'm doing not only thousands of percent better than the MSM but every Prog on these boards, _especially_ you.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I know. Just because you don't respond, blah, blah, blah... And, I know I'm a hypocrite but, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell ya what: When you become perfect, come back & criticize everybody else for their flaws. Until then, screw you...



Not exactly. When you publish something that is wrong, you undermine your own credibility, even if you only do it once. We call that practice a Trump tactic. The difference is that he can't read; you can. 

https://youtu.be/7LFkN7QGp2c


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...d56f20-a2b7-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I've posted literally thousands of links on these boards. If all you can find is a mere handful that were "wrong", I'm doing not only thousands of percent better than the MSM but every Prog on these boards, _especially_ you.


See that? You're still doing it. It's not "wrong", it's *wrong*.

You are habitually incapable (from observable evidence) to admit that you were *wrong*. Anyone with an ounce of credibility would edit their original post to indicate a _mea culpa_, acknowledge that their sources were incorrect, and move on.

But no. You like to leave your flat-out fabricated stories out there as evidence of your narcissism. It's quite telling.


----------



## Rps

As The Donald always states...." I applegise".

and now the U.S. Election campaign anthem....

https://youtu.be/zUQiUFZ5RDw


----------



## Dr.G.

This would be nice ............. but it is no easy task. Kindness and tolerance. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiNQ9GOPKjI

For those who need a moment's respite from all that is taking place "these days". Peace, my friends.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Point ............. Set ............... Match. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

ANCIENT PROPHECY: The U.S.A. will elect a woman President when the Chicago Cubs win the World Series!


----------



## CubaMark

*Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire (again)*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQwWHa6ywg


----------



## CubaMark

Re: The Clinton Foundation

Now, here's a _credible_ allegation of illegal activity by the Clinton Foundation. For those who like, y'know, *facts*. 

_Confidential auditor's report states that Clinton Foundation is engaging in illegal conduct (see attachment tab)_​









https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/49561


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire (again)*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQwWHa6ywg


And this shocks you???????? :lmao: Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Apparently Ann doesn't much care for Hillary. 

Ann Coulter - November 2, 2016 - MY FINAL ARGUMENT FOR TRUMP: HUMILIATE THE MEDIA!


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Apparently Ann doesn't much care for Hillary.
> 
> Ann Coulter - November 2, 2016 - MY FINAL ARGUMENT FOR TRUMP: HUMILIATE THE MEDIA!


Ann C is off the scale in that Trump is too liberal for her.


----------



## eMacMan

That the Hillary approach is: 'Vote for me because Trump is even worse', is very revealing. It shows beyond all doubt that she knows she has nothing to offer except a continuation of the graft, greed and corruption that has a complete strangle hold on DC.

However I am sure she will make a good Stewardess, always placing the interests of her corporate elite masters ahead of the interests of the nation and its citizens.


----------



## FeXL

I'm not even going to click on the link. Why? Because anybody who uses the word _allegation_ in describing the criminal activity of the CF is definitely not _credible_...



CubaMark said:


> Now, here's a _credible_ allegation of illegal activity by the Clinton Foundation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump Jr. and Trump social media director Dan Scavino retweeted comments describing what occurred in Reno, NV yesterday as an "assassination attempt", when no such attempt took place. Trump supporters had incorrectly thought the protester had a gun. Even Fox News got it correct -- a Republican who supported Clinton held up a sign saying "Republican for Clinton". Six Trump supporters jumped him and while he was on the ground a Trump supporter yelled "gun". This is when the Secret Service hurried Trump off the stage. Then, other Secret Service and Reno police officers went to the person that was being hit by the Trump supporters. He was handcuffed and taken back stage where it was determined that he did not have a gun or weapon of any sort, did not pose any threat of any sort, and was released. Hillary Clinton is wearing a bullet proof vest ............... wonder if Trump will start to wear one now? We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

He was a known agitator hired by the Clintons and revealed in WIKILeaks.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Apparently Ann doesn't much care for Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> Ann Coulter - November 2, 2016 - MY FINAL ARGUMENT FOR TRUMP: HUMILIATE THE MEDIA!



Hardly surprising, since I don't much care for Ann Coulter. 


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## Dr.G.

Libertarian Bill Weld: Hillary Clinton has gotten 'a pretty raw deal' - CNNPolitics.com

Bill Weld: 'I'm here vouching for Mrs. Clinton' - CNNPolitics.com

I have respect for Bill Weld's honesty.


----------



## Dr.G.

FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0


----------



## Dr.G.

Go Clinton Go .................... all the way to the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

America , time for reflection. The future is on the line.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Ummm....about that "assassination attempt" on Trump in Reno....










https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-for-holding-a-republicans-against-trump-sign


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----------



## Dr.G.

Frank, if his sign could be used as a weapon, he was armed. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can kill me." So, there might not have been a grassy knoll, but he should never have been released ............... even if he is a Republican. Republicans NOT for Trump are dangerous, since they are basically saying ............


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I'm not even going to click on the link. Why? Because anybody who uses the word _allegation_ in describing the criminal activity of the CF is definitely not _credible_...



FeXL, you really need to make up your mind, man. You're all over the map...



FeXL said:


> People can accuse all they want. Until it is proven in a court of law, all it is is an accusation.
> 
> If you continue with this line of attack, I would appreciate it if you used the word "alleged"...


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, if his sign could be used as a weapon, he was armed. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can kill me." So, there might not have been a grassy knoll, but he should never have been released ............... even if he is a Republican. Republicans NOT for Trump are dangerous, since they are basically saying ............



Hmm. Never thought about it that way.










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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hmm. Never thought about it that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Looks like 'Honest Hillary's' problems are not over.
> 
> FBI Obtains Warrant for Newly Discovered Emails in Clinton Probe - as Reid Accuses Comey of Hatch Act Violation - NBC News


*No criminality in Clinton emails - FBI*

_The FBI says it has found no evidence of criminality in a new batch of Hillary Clinton emails, boosting her campaign two days before the election.

FBI Director James Comey told Congress his agency's review had found nothing to alter its original conclusion.

In July, he said Mrs Clinton had been careless but not criminal in handling sensitive material on her private email server while secretary of state.

The issue flared up again with the discovery of new "pertinent" emails.

They were reportedly found on the laptop of Anthony Weiner, the estranged husband of one of the Democratic presidential candidate's closest advisers._​
(BBC)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *No criminality in Clinton emails - FBI*
> 
> 
> 
> _The FBI says it has found no evidence of criminality in a new batch of Hillary Clinton emails, boosting her campaign two days before the election.
> 
> 
> 
> FBI Director James Comey told Congress his agency's review had found nothing to alter its original conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> In July, he said Mrs Clinton had been careless but not criminal in handling sensitive material on her private email server while secretary of state.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue flared up again with the discovery of new "pertinent" emails.
> 
> 
> 
> They were reportedly found on the laptop of Anthony Weiner, the estranged husband of one of the Democratic presidential candidate's closest advisers._​
> 
> 
> (BBC)



Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!!


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


True. Sadly, Trump's tax returns will never be seen prior to the election. tptptptp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...turns-has-been-exposed/?tid=pm_business_pop_b


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump sex abuse claims: Woman who accused Trump of raping her at 13 has dropped her suit*

A woman who accused Donald Trump of tying her to a bed and raping her when she was an aspiring model and just 13 years old has withdrawn her lawsuit.

The dropping of the action, first reported by Politico, may mark the end of a sometimes bizarre legal challenge by the woman, who is now in her thirties and lives in California.

Identified in court papers as ‘Jane Doe’, the accuser had been scheduled to go public for the first time with a press conference in Los Angeles last week. But at the last minute she failed to show up before assembled reporters.

The episode, which briefly threatened to drop an eleventh-hour bombshell on Mr Trump, has been a decidedly opaque one from the start. Unable to access either the accuser or any material evidence backing up the claim, the mainstream media treated the case with caution.

The accuser's lead lawyer in the now withdrawn action, Thomas Meagher of New Jersey, was offering no comment. According to Politico he filed a one-page notice dismissing the case on Friday evening in federal court in Manhattan without explanation.​(more at the Independent UK)​


----------



## SINC

The score. Trump 1 Accusers 0.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> The score. Trump 1 Accusers 0.


Not sure if this was a just Hillary $#!t diversion. Hillaries bag of dirty tricks makes Tricky Dick look squeaky clean by comparison.

OTOH Perhaps she was bought or threatened off, aka the Bill Clinton technique. At least Trump did not resort to Arkanasicide.

IMHO Neither of these clowns is worthy of the office.


----------



## macintosh doctor

pretty much - the end is near.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> IMHO Neither of these clowns is worthy of the office.


This. Every. Time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True. Sadly, Trump's tax returns will never be seen prior to the election. tptptptp
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...turns-has-been-exposed/?tid=pm_business_pop_b



Or ever. He does all the classic excuses that pathological liars do. Did I post the Samantha Bee theory on Donald Trump yet? It makes a lot of sense, actually.

https://youtu.be/7LFkN7QGp2c


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Or ever. He does all the classic excuses that pathological liars do. Did I post the Samantha Bee theory on Donald Trump yet? It makes a lot of sense, actually.
> 
> https://youtu.be/7LFkN7QGp2c
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, some valid points, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The score. Trump 1 Accusers 0.



Interesting. And what's your tally with the Bill Cosby accusers, out of curiousity?


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----------



## Dr.G.

Ana Navarro: I'm voting for Hillary Clinton and against Donald Trump - CNN.com

She was a strong Bush supporter.


----------



## Dr.G.

John Oliver admits he made a mistake when he urged Donald Trump to run for president - Nov. 7, 2016

Now we know who to blame.


----------



## Dr.G.

Democrats Sure Know How to Make an Emotional Political Ad | I Agree To See

I am grateful that that my mother brought me up as a progressive, liberal Democrat.


----------



## ehMax

I can't wait until this election is over so the US can unify and get together with the long, tedious process of impeaching whover is elected. 

For whatever problems we had between left and right wing poltics in Canada, I'd take any of our past leaders over these two. What a complete **** show.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hey Mr. Mayor! You said a wirty dord! 

Larry's Sabato's Crystal Ball final picks for Election 2016. Let's see how close he comes. 










http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/


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----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Mr. Mayor! You said a wirty dord!


'Gong' show is dirty?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Gong is dirty?




Apparently so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

If You're a Fan of Barack Obama, Be Sure to Break Out the Tissues for this Ad | I Agree To See

I shall miss Pres. Obama. Voted for him twice in the State of Georgia.


----------



## Dr.G.

The non Americans' guide to US elections (Handy for citizens, too) - CNNPolitics.com

Knew most of the info on this site, except for why Tuesday .......... as in Sunday to church, Wednesday to market. Interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Man, Trump sounds tired as he gives his final speech in Michigan. He sounds like your drunk uncle at the family reunion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, it is now up to the American voter. Let's hope that they make the correct decision. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

A little Star Trek reference:


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it is now up to the American voter. Let's hope that they make the correct decision. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


This is a clear case of two wrongs can make only a wrong. Whomever is chosen could well go down in history as the worst president ever.

With Woodrow Wilson having set that bar so very low it will be interesting watching the "winner" attempting to Limbo under it.


----------



## eMacMan




----------



## eMacMan

From a letter to the editor, but it sure hits the bull's eye.



> Scenario: A small child tells his father he wants to be president when he grows up. The father's response at 3 different times in our history: In 1899, the father replies, "That's a fine dream, but that's for the wealthy. It's not for the likes of us." Same scenario in 1949, the father replies, "That's a fine dream. This is America, land of opportunity. You can become anything you want if you work hard enough." Same scenario in 1999, the father takes his son over his knee: "Bad boy, bad boy!"
> 
> 
> When did both parties decide that nominating "the best and the brightest" to run for president was a hopelessly naive and obsolete concept?
> John Skiba
> Yoder


LETTERS: Where are the artistic activities?; naive and obsolete concept | Colorado Springs Gazette, News


----------



## SINC

Real Clear Politics call it this way.

RealClearPolitics - 2016 Election Maps - Create Your Own President Map


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Real Clear Politics call it this way.
> 
> RealClearPolitics - 2016 Election Maps - Create Your Own President Map


I believe Maine and Nebraska allocate by who wins the congressional districts. If the race is really that tight after various voting machines are hacked, that could actually swing things the other way. Of course a tie could cause a real mess.

I think Hillary will not do as well in Colorado as predicted. The state is pretty independent and Hillary is pretty much despised by all. Could see Senate go Democrat and vote Trump for PotUS.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

He's making sure the voting machine doesn't register a vote for Cankles.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

SEE IT: Donald Trump's final campaign ad blasted as anti-Semitic - NY Daily News

I knew that at some point Trump would play the anti-Semitic card. He waiting until the end of the campaign. Still, now he has touched all bases.

For the Record -- The New York Daily News endorsed Trump, so I am not sure if they are part of the "crooked and biased media"?


----------



## Dr.G.

'I voted' stickers put on Susan B. Anthony's grave - CNN Video

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Eric Trump may have broken law with ballot tweet - CNNPolitics.com

Oooppps!!! Well, like father like son.


----------



## Macfury

Soros, Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve are all harmful forces. 



Dr.G. said:


> SEE IT: Donald Trump's final campaign ad blasted as anti-Semitic - NY Daily News
> 
> I knew that at some point Trump would play the anti-Semitic card. He waiting until the end of the campaign. Still, now he has touched all bases.
> 
> For the Record -- The New York Daily News endorsed Trump, so I am not sure if they are part of the "crooked and biased media"?


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, it looks as if Trump is correct and the system is rigged. Republican governors and Republican Sect. of States in various "red states" are allowing voting to go ahead beyond the designated hours to allow all who are in these long lines to vote. So Trump is now vindicated.

Wait, Trump is running as a Republican and these are Republicans who are allowing this expression of a fundamental right of a democracy -- the right to vote. So, I guess you could say that this is a pseudo-rigging of the election. Republicans letting citizens in "red states" vote. They may not vote the Trumpublican line on the top of the ticket, but these governors want the others on the ticket to obtain as many Republican votes as possible. Very smart. 

So, tonight, The Donald is NOT happy with some Republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Miami Herald Endorses Hillary Clinton in a Simple Yet Powerful Editorial | Mother Jones

Short, but sweet.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump just tweeted that CNN reported "voting irregularities across the country". CNN just informed Trump that there report was that their were voting irregularities in one "county" in Utah. Well, Trump can just blame a spell correction miscue.


----------



## Macfury

Stick to the rules, states!



Dr.G. said:


> Well, it looks as if Trump is correct and the system is rigged. Republican governors and Republican Sect. of States in various "red states" are allowing voting to go ahead beyond the designated hours to allow all who are in these long lines to vote. So Trump is now vindicated.
> 
> Wait, Trump is running as a Republican and these are Republicans who are allowing this expression of a fundamental right of a democracy -- the right to vote. So, I guess you could say that this is a pseudo-rigging of the election. Republicans letting citizens in "red states" vote. They may not vote the Trumpublican line on the top of the ticket, but these governors want the others on the ticket to obtain as many Republican votes as possible. Very smart.
> 
> So, tonight, The Donald is NOT happy with some Republicans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Stick to the rules, states!


Right on, Brother Macfury. Do NOT let potential voters vote for Republican Congressmen and women, and Senators. "Let freedom ring" ............ just not when it comes to voting in "red states".


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, Trump just revealed that his early campaign advisers gave him bad advice. They told him that based on what happened to Mitt Romney, he needed to "go after" the minority voter (e.g., Latinos, African-Americans, et al). Sadly, he misunderstood the meaning of "go after" (i.e., work to include these groups in the Republican tent). He did use the other meaning of "go after", and included Muslims, women, those who are disabled, et al. And did he go after them with a fury unseen in modern time.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well.

The "Paper of Record" has called the election for Trump...


----------



## SINC

Can you say, Goodbye Hillary? Did the anti Obama vote did her in


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Until California and the west coast states are counted in, I wouldn't be counting your chickens just yet. I see photofinish coming. 

P.S. Will Trump still call the process rigged if he wins? 


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----------



## SINC

Trump will not have to comment on rigged when he wins, no if tonight. America is tired of the status quo in Washington and the White House.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Trump will not have to comment on rigged when he wins, no if tonight. America is tired of the status quo in WAshington and the White House.



Right! America wants to take its chances with a thin-skinned narcissist who could launch a nuclear war based on nothing more than a Tweet he didn't like. Hope your bomb shelter is well-stocked.


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----------



## SINC

Oh my, bitter are we Frank? Wait til we toss Red Rachel out on her butt too.


----------



## rgray

Freddie_Biff said:


> Right! America wants to take its chances with a thin-skinned narcissist who could launch a nuclear war based on nothing more than a Tweet he didn't like. Hope your bomb shelter is well-stocked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can add delusional and paranoid to that narcissistic......


----------



## FeXL

Fearmongering, much? 

You Progs do go on when you don't get your way, don't you?

Go, Donald!!!

PS. As to your prognostications about the left coast, there are very, very few combinations at this point that will pull out a win for Bill's Wife.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Right! America wants to take its chances with a thin-skinned narcissist who could launch a nuclear war based on nothing more than a Tweet he didn't like. Hope your bomb shelter is well-stocked.


----------



## wonderings

Watching on CNN and have to say I am surprised. Thought it would be flipped from what I am seeing now. I have wanted to see a non politician win for a long time, Trump was not the one I would choose, but people really do seem to want change. Will be very interesting to see how it all comes together and how the US political world will change whether he wins or not.


----------



## Macfury

Good comment. I agree.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I am amazed. Congrats to Mr. Trump on a hard win fight. I still don't think he's remotely qualified for the job however. But he is nothing if not tenacious.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

In the words of William Wordsworth

"What though the radiance which was once so bright
Be now for ever taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;

We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind;
In the primal sympathy
Which having been must ever be."


----------



## Macfury

I stopped visiting the American Politics thread about a week ago when I realized that people here refused to even discuss WIKILeaks or watch the Project Veritas videos. No discussion of the election was possible without these.


----------



## rgray

What was manifest, at least in part, last night was a massive failure of the American education system to impart sufficient critical thinking skills to over 50% of the population, not to mention decency of rhetoric.


----------



## Macfury

rgray said:


> What was manifest, at least in part, last night was a massive failure of the American education system to impart sufficient critical thinking skills to over 50% of the population, not to mention decency of rhetoric.


Translation: Because they did not vote to suit your interests, they're idiots. 

Give it a rest. This the type of clucking, scolding message that rightly helped drive Trump to the presidency.


----------



## SINC

rgray said:


> What was manifest, at least in part, last night was a massive failure of the American education system to impart sufficient critical thinking skills to over 50% of the population, not to mention decency of rhetoric.


You can call it what you will, but I doubt it has anything to do with education and everything to do with a world wide populace who are tired of the career politicians who continue to make our daily lives more difficult every day they are in power. 

America is not alone in the desire for change and the turfing of entitled political beings like Clinton is spreading across the globe. It is happening in Europe, it happened in the UK with Brexit and these recent examples will be followed by the oppressed taxpayers of countries, provinces and municipalities in the next few years. 

Even Canadians will revolt and rid ourselves of entitled twits like The Hairdo and give the reins to non politicians. That's why people like Trump gain the chance to effect change. Kevin O'Leary does not look like such a long shot for us anymore now.

I bet Rachel Notley is quivering in her boots right now.


----------



## Macfury

Goodbye "carbon market"!


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> Watching on CNN and have to say I am surprised. Thought it would be flipped from what I am seeing now. I have wanted to see a non politician win for a long time, Trump was not the one I would choose, but people really do seem to want change. Will be very interesting to see how it all comes together and how the US political world will change where he wins or not.


As I am pretty much without words of my own this morning, I'll simply endorse *wonderings* comment.


----------



## Macfury

> By biasing its internal electoral market the DNC selected the less competitive candidate defeating the purpose of running a primary.
> 
> *WIKILEaks*


Yup. The corrupt Democrats killed their own democratic process in stabbing Bernie in the back.


----------



## SINC

One thing that all Clinton supporters should note is her refusal to come out, face the defeat in person and congratulate Trump in a concession speech. That inaction alone speaks volumes about how bad a president she would have made. When one is not emotionally able to face defeat and adversity, they have no business being president. She is of flawed character on top of all her other faults.


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> One thing that all Clinton supporters should note is her refusal to come out, face the defeat in person and congratulate Trump in a concession speech. That inaction alone speaks volumes about how bad a president she would have made. When one is not emotionally able to face defeat and adversity, they have no business being president. She is of flawed character on top of all her other faults.


Well she is scheduled to do that later today. I think normally though it does not drag on like that. So she is going to do it, just not in the normal time line. 

This was a dirty volatile election, both sides appeared to really despise the other. I think Trump would have done the same, in fact I am pretty sure he said he would not concede if the vote had gone the other way. 

Either way, as exciting as the election was it is finally over... for 2 years at least when they start their long campaigns again.


Just read on CNN Hillary is scheduled to deliver some remarks at 9:30 am ET. Curious to see if she will be a gracious loser in this and look to support the new President Elect now that it is all over, as all Americans should do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> You can call it what you will, but I doubt it has anything to do with education and everything to do with a world wide populace who are tired of the career politicians who continue to make our daily lives more difficult every day they are in power.
> 
> 
> 
> America is not alone in the desire for change and the turfing of entitled political beings like Clinton is spreading across the globe. It is happening in Europe, it happened in the UK with Brexit and these recent examples will be followed by the oppressed taxpayers of countries, provinces and municipalities in the next few years.
> 
> 
> 
> Even Canadians will revolt and rid ourselves of entitled twits like The Hairdo and give the reins to non politicians. That's why people like Trump gain the chance to effect change. Kevin O'Leary does not look like such a long shot for us anymore now.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet Rachel Notley is quivering in her boots right now.



Au contraire. Trump said he'd get the Keystone XL pipeline approved. So there's that. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> One thing that all Clinton supporters should note is her refusal to come out, face the defeat in person and congratulate Trump in a concession speech. That inaction alone speaks volumes about how bad a president she would have made. When one is not emotionally able to face defeat and adversity, they have no business being president. She is of flawed character on top of all her other faults.



That's harsh. She did phone him yesterday to concede. Cut the woman a little slack. She just lost the most significant battle of her life, and someone completely unfit for the job has taken it. She's not a threat to you anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Can hardly wait to see the financials for Kool-Aid, they must have sold a tonne of that stuff these last few months......


----------



## wonderings

Hillarys remarks rescheduled to 10:30 am ET.


----------



## FeXL

There is much that could be said here but I'm going to be as subtle, understated & humble as I possibly can:

*DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!!! We have a Winnah!!!*

HA!!!

Not only the presidency, but the Senate!!!

For those of you who are weeping in disbelief this morning, I have one single piece of advice: Do not underestimate the level of discontent with "status quo" politicians much of the world's democratic populace has. Brexit. Trump. Venezuela. Germany soon. Red Rachel not soon enough. Even the Hairdo. We're f'ing tired of being your doormat.

Dr.G, my friend, l'chaim!

My breakfast:


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's harsh. She did phone him yesterday to concede. Cut the woman a little slack. She just lost the most significant battle of her life, and someone completely unfit for the job has taken it. She's not a threat to you anymore.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the media polls had her fooled into believing she would win. I am sure that both sides found ways to manipulate various portions of the balloting, those computerized voting machines should be banned altogether, so maybe it just ended up balancing out. 

Since they were poorly covered in the Lamestream I doubt that very many read even a few of the latest Podesta eMails. I think in her case having the power structure so clearly in her corner cost her the election. Then again without that help, Sanders would have been a clear winner in the Primaries.

Now we wait and see how high the crap to benefit ratio is with Trump. OTOH if he tries to rein in the CIA he might want to avoid trips to Dallas.


----------



## FeXL

Bull$h!t. She's brought it upon herself. This ain't over yet. Now the investigation starts in earnest...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Cut the woman a little slack.


----------



## FeXL

Made a tidy profit on popcorn futures, myself.



Rps said:


> Can hardly wait to see the financials for Kool-Aid, they must have sold a tonne of that stuff these last few months......


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Bull$h!t. She's brought it upon herself. This ain't over yet. Now the investigation starts in earnest...


Expect Obushma to do a Gerald Ford and issue her a blanket pardon.


----------



## Macfury

She lost the battle because she was unfit. Her tenure as Secretary of State was an unmitigated disaster and scandal has followed her for 30 years. No mercy!



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's harsh. She did phone him yesterday to concede. Cut the woman a little slack. She just lost the most significant battle of her life, and someone completely unfit for the job has taken it. She's not a threat to you anymore.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's harsh. She did phone him yesterday to concede. Cut the woman a little slack. She just lost the most significant battle of her life, and someone completely unfit for the job has taken it. She's not a threat to you anymore.


The thing you don't get is she never was a threat to me. She was only a threat to her country and they soundly rejected her. It's over for her and all entitled politicians globally in future years.


----------



## Macfury

I love to see a tilted hack "news" anchor like Rachel Maddow eating crow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88UV4yJ-AdI


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Expect Obushma to do a Gerald Ford and issue her a blanket pardon.


I don't believe the logistics of such a thing are possible, given that no charges have been laid against her, no court proceeding has even begun that might eventually find her guilty of something. Obama has no power in the time between now and Trump's taking of office to issue Clinton a pardon.


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

Macfury said:


> I love to see a tilted hack "news" anchor like Rachel Maddow eating crow:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88UV4yJ-AdI


There are a lot of media crying in their coffee this morning with the implosion of their girl.


----------



## MacGuiver2.0

My hope for us is Trumps expected win and the countries middle finger to globalists, media, elites and the global warming BS will force Trudeau to back off the green train of doom he's putting us on. If he rides on with carbon taxes, crippling resource development and green energy money pits, the country will loose to the US every time. This may force his hand to drop or downgrade some of those ambitions.


----------



## 18m2

Eh!

The sun rose on the wet coast this morning so it looks like things will keep working in spite of the change of leadership in the US.

I'm glad the election is over.


----------



## macintosh doctor

The people have spoken - so happy..


----------



## Macfury

I'm wondering how quickly Obama's "legacy" can be completely scorched from the face of the country. Can't happen too soon.


----------



## Macfury

Even though I don't agree with 90 per cent of her issues, a gracious concession speech from Hillary.

Good speech from Obama as well.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> Even though I don't agree with 90 per cent of her issues, a gracious concession speech from Hillary.
> 
> Good speech from Obama as well.


what?!?!? - we must have watched something else all together.
- what she never addressed was - how she screwed over her supporters last night with a no show lol


----------



## SINC

Best line of the night regarding the US election:

*It is quiet in the Clinton HQ right now.

So quiet you can hear an email being deleted.*


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Even though I don't agree with 90 per cent of her issues, a gracious concession speech from Hillary.
> 
> Good speech from Obama as well.


On this we agree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Listened to Paul Ryan say that 70% of Americans voted for change yesterday. In that Clinton received a couple of hundred thousands more votes than Trump, I am unsure of his math.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Listened to Paul Ryan say that 70% of Americans voted for change yesterday. In that Clinton received a couple of hundred thousands more votes than Trump, I am unsure of his math.


The quote I heard was: "Seven out of 10 Americans, they do not like the direction our country is going." This was from recent surveys.


----------



## Macfury

Love to see Chris Matthews whining here:

Stunned Chris Matthews: Loser Hillary Won the Debates, Had Best Ad Campaign

James Carville is fun as usual!


----------



## Macfury

I could have worked longer on this, but you get the idea:


----------



## Dr.G.

Interesting. He knew it even back in 1998.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIEVet4A1eU/

I still believe that Bernie Sanders would have defeated Trump soundly. C'est la vie.


----------



## screature

*The Civil War Conitues in the US!!!*

Trump being elected just proves it.

There is just as great a divide in the US as there has always been since the civil war. After over 200 years it is really no better. That is the greatest shock of this election.

It makes me sick to my stomach as it does many other people in the US and around the world.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. He knew it even back in 1998.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BIEVet4A1eU/
> 
> I still believe that Bernie Sanders would have defeated Trump soundly. C'est la vie.


If Hillary and the DNC had not colluded against Sanders, he would have been the nominee. The backstabbing and double dealing was outrageous.

The Trump quote is false:

Donald Trump Said Republicans Are the "Dumbest Group of Voters" : snopes.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I think the media polls had her fooled into believing she would win. I am sure that both sides found ways to manipulate various portions of the balloting, those computerized voting machines should be banned altogether, so maybe it just ended up balancing out.
> 
> Since they were poorly covered in the Lamestream I doubt that very many read even a few of the latest Podesta eMails. I think in her case having the power structure so clearly in her corner cost her the election. Then again without that help, Sanders would have been a clear winner in the Primaries.
> 
> Now we wait and see how high the crap to benefit ratio is with Trump. OTOH if he tries to rein in the CIA he might want to avoid trips to Dallas.



No disagreement on the polls being a misleading. However, to be fair, Hillary DID win the popular vote. She lost the election because of the distribution of electoral college votes. Trump won't suddenly become wise just because he won, but let's hope he has some sane advisers to help him out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ehMax

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






The Lord did it apparantly. 

The graph of the New York Times proves it. Every scientist in the word can't prove the effects of man spewing Carbon in the atmosphere and the negative effects on our climate so we can keep pumping oil and gas, but a chart from the New York post is all you need to know that the Lord made "grab em by the pussy" Trump the president.

Hallelujah.


----------



## Dr.G.

ehMax said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Lord did it apparantly.
> 
> The graph of the New York Times proves it. Every scientist in the word can't prove the effects of man spewing Carbon in the atmosphere and the negative effects on our climate so we can keep pumping oil and gas, but a chart from the New York post is all you need to know that the Lord made "grab em by the pussy" Trump the president.
> 
> Hallelujah.


And the Lord said unto Moses --

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."
"Thou shalt not commit adultery."
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

And The Donald said unto the Lord, "Let's make America great again."


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Lord did it apparantly.
> 
> The graph of the New York Times proves it. Every scientist in the word can't prove the effects of man spewing Carbon in the atmosphere and the negative effects on our climate so we can keep pumping oil and gas, but a chart from the New York post is all you need to know that the Lord made "grab em by the pussy" Trump the president.
> 
> Hallelujah.


That's not very persuasive prose, EhMax.


----------



## FeXL

The reason Trump won is because he is wise. Wise enough to know that the average American in the trenches was sick of the chattering classes & wanted someone to stand up for them for a change.

Get used to it. Eight years, baby...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump won't suddenly become wise just because he won, but let's hope he has some sane advisers to help him out.


----------



## Kami

Next questions... If Trump follow up with his more insular economic plans, what's the net effect on the Canadian economy when there is no softwood lumber agreement or if NAFTA gets ripped up?


----------



## FeXL

Kami said:


> Next questions... If Trump follow up with his more insular economic plans, what's the net effect on the Canadian economy when there is no softwood lumber agreement or if NAFTA gets ripped up?


I thought the SLA had expired some time ago. And, NAFTA didn't cover it.


----------



## FeXL

So, FUXL, what's it feel like to be a loser? To be wrong? To have a case of cranial-rectal inversion so severe that you didn't see this coming a full year ago when Trump entered the race?

Like I did?

Please, feel free to begin your apology any time. In addition, there's a weather thread that requires your undying attention...



FUXL said:


> You will be apologizing for being so wrong soon enough.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The reason Trump won is because he is wise. Wise enough to know that the average American in the trenches was sick of the chattering classes & wanted someone to stand up for them for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> Get used to it. Eight years, baby...



Four to start with, and no he is not wise. He's lucky, he knows how to capitalize on his good fortune, but intellectually, he's as empty as an abandoned neighbourhood in Michigan. Not only does he not like to read (apart from his own tweets), it may well be that he actually can't. There is evidence to suggest a learning disability, one that he keeps hidden as much as possible. He can also be played like a fiddle, which it seems is exactly what Putin is doing with him right now. So no, wisdom is not one of his strong suits. Let's hope there are people advising him that will see the things he so obviously will miss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Kami said:


> Next questions... If Trump follow up with his more insular economic plans, what's the net effect on the Canadian economy when there is no softwood lumber agreement or if NAFTA gets ripped up?



I don't believe Mr. Trump is going to have Canada's best interests in mind when it comes to negotiations. He can be merciless when it comes to his own interests and he is notorious for not paying the contractors he owes money to. These are big red flags right out of the starting gate. I sure hope that this Keystone XL pipeline is going to be worth all of the other sacrifices we may have to make.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Four to start with, and no he is not wise. He's lucky, he knows how to capitalize on his good fortune, but intellectually, he's as empty as an abandoned neighbourhood in Michigan. Not only does he not like to read (apart from his own tweets), it may well be that he actually can't. There is evidence to suggest a learning disability, one that he keeps hidden as much as possible. He can also be played like a fiddle, which it seems is exactly what Putin is doing with him right now. So no, wisdom is not one of his strong suits. Let's hope there are people advising him that will see the things he so obviously will miss.


Trump beat 17 primary opponents, the mainstream press, his own party, every sad sack "progressive" in America,the Democrats--and what was billed as the "smartest, most qualified woman in America"--and he has no smarts?

Keep it coming...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't believe Mr. Trump is going to have Canada's best interests in mind when it comes to negotiations. He can be merciless when it comes to his own interests and he is notorious for not paying the contractors he owes money to. These are big red flags right out of the starting gate. I sure hope that this Keystone XL pipeline is going to be worth all of the other sacrifices we may have to make.


I fully expect Trump to represent his country to the benefit of America. If only Trudeau would represent Canada and Notley represent Alberta the same way, instead of behaving like nutball "citizens of the world."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump beat 17 primary opponents, the mainstream press, his own party, every sad sack "progressive" in America,the Democrats--and what was billed as the "smartest, most qualified woman in America"--and he has no smarts?
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it coming...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fully expect Trump to represent his country to the benefit of America. If only Trudeau would represent Canada and Notley represent Alberta the same way, instead of behaving like nutball "citizens of the world."



I didn't say he doesn't have smarts. He is crafty. He has a winning strategy. I would even call him clever. But I stop short at "wise" because to me the term implies a certain maturity and humility that Mr. Trump seems to lack. It is not wise, for example. To tweet back at your perceived enemies at 3:00 am without considering how it might make you look. It is not wise to act as though you are Russia's lap dog rather than the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. It WAS wise for Trump's handlers (insofar as he has handlers) to censor his Twitter access during that final weekend. A wise person knows when to shut up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> It can be difficult to define wisdom, but people generally recognize it when they encounter it. Psychologists tend to agree that it involves an integration of knowledge, experience, and deep understanding that incorporates tolerance for the uncertainties of life as well as its ups and downs. There's an awareness of how things play out over time, and it confers a sense of balance.
> 
> Wise people generally share an optimism that life's problems can be solved and experience a certain amount of calm in facing difficult decisions. Intelligence—if only anyone could figure out exactly what it is—may be necessary for wisdom, but it definitely isn't sufficient; an ability to see the big picture, a sense of proportion, and considerable introspection also contribute to its development.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/wisdom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

How does one act when one is Russia's "lap dog"?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I didn't say he doesn't have smarts. He is crafty. He has a winning strategy. I would even call him clever. But I stop short at "wise" because to me the term implies a certain maturity and humility that Mr. Trump seems to lack. It is not wise, for example. To tweet back at your perceived enemies at 3:00 am without considering how it might make you look. It is not wise to act as though you are Russia's lap dog rather than the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. It WAS wise for Trump's handlers (insofar as he has handlers) to censor his Twitter access during that final weekend. A wise person knows when to shut up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How does one act when one is Russia's "lap dog"?



Observe Trump whenever he speaks of Putin. Watch and learn. It's a little like how Dwight acts when he's around Negan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rgray




----------



## rgray

*And so it begins.......*

Anti-Trump protests turn violent in Oakland, while Cher and Madonna attend NYC march | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Macfury

This is just your confirmation bias speaking. Bot let's have some fun--exactly what have you observed? Or just give me the quote that have you convinced.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Observe Trump whenever he speaks of Putin. Watch and learn. It's a little like how Dwight acts when he's around Negan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

This is what the US left does when it doesn't get its way. Note that the agitators are often carrying the same style signs as those carried at DNC-sponsored protests.



rgray said:


> And so it begins.


----------



## Dr.G.

rgray said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao: Just wait until The Donald, now president-elect Trump, soon to be President Trump, wants his face put in between TR and Lincoln. We shall see..


----------



## Dr.G.

rgray said:


> Anti-Trump protests turn violent in Oakland, while Cher and Madonna attend NYC march | Daily Mail Online


This is not good. Peaceful protests are acceptable, but this in NOT a good demonstration of non-support. I am an advocate of peaceful transitions, even if it means going from Pres. Obama to Pres. Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How does one act when one is Russia's "lap dog"?


Lap dogs need to look lovingly at you while in your lap, look down when you speak to them directly, and always smile at the camera. It helps if you are a Russian Wolf Hound, but dachshunds are at least hounds, and mean "badger hounds" in German.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...165c6d4_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

How can this be??????? Trump was elected with nearly half of the popular vote the other day!!!!! He should at least be able to enact Sarah Palin's idea that you deport the 11 million illegal aliens just over the US-Mexican border and have them build the wall, keeping them on the Mexican side once the wall is completed. I don't see her idea of building a super-high Trump Tower (not a hotel or office building, just a big CN-like tower) in Alaska, so that everyone could go up to the observation deck and actually see Russia. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> This is not good. Peaceful protests are acceptable, but this in NOT a good demonstration of non-support. I am an advocate of peaceful transitions, even if it means going from Pres. Obama to Pres. Trump.


Dr. G., this is mostly paid agitation by George Soros-funded Moveon.org. There are professionals paid to lead the protesters step by step to violence when an organic protest would have been peaceful.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., this is mostly paid agitation by George Soros-funded Moveon.org. There are professionals paid to lead the protesters step by step to violence when an organic protest would have been peaceful.


Macfury, with all due respect, this is just speculation. With no real proof, it is just your opinion. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::lmao: Just wait until The Donald, now president-elect Trump, soon to be President Trump, wants his face put in between TR and Lincoln. We shall see..













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., this is mostly paid agitation by George Soros-funded Moveon.org. There are professionals paid to lead the protesters step by step to violence when an organic protest would have been peaceful.


Sadly this is far too common. The intent may be to sabotage a protest. Gives the press an excuse to focus on the violence not the message. 

In the case of things like Black Lives Matters it is intended to divide the populace so they are too suspicious of each other to go after the real criminals. The criminals at the top of the food chain.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> This is not good. Peaceful protests are acceptable, but this in NOT a good demonstration of non-support. I am an advocate of peaceful transitions, even if it means going from Pres. Obama to Pres. Trump.



Seems that me that when Trump lowered the bar for what's "acceptable" in America, he lowered it for all citizens. It's ugly, but also rather fitting considering all the hate-rhetoric he has been spewing. People can have long memories for that kind of thing. When Obama calls for civility, it has much more resonance than if Trump were to do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## wonderings

All these violent protests do is divide the country even more. The one side upset the other is protesting so violently and making them mad. The split grows even wider with these actions rather then accepting your countries democratic process and supporting and hoping Trump is the best President they have ever had. I also question the violent protestors and their real commitment to their candidate. Both Obama and Hillary called for unity and in essence peace and understanding. Is this carrying out the wishes of Clinton? I think not.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...165c6d4_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1


Dr. G, I think the Washington Post has had the most bias against Trump in relation to media coverage. I am certainly not a Trump supporter and I do read the Post. They most certainly give credence to his assertion that the media is bias. To the heart of the matter, this campaign may fan the already existing flames of racial divide in the U.S., and it certainly will give the impression that it will be "top-down". I have acquaintances in California and they speak of the rise of visual Klan events and the increasing use of the word "N****r. They thought that they have moved beyond that but feel that it will be 1960 all over again. Trump's biggest challenge will be to end this rising tide which he embraced as the populist candidate and begin to be the President for everyone in America, not just for the rich, the white, and the Protestant. If he can't do that within the first 100 days ( which seems to be the benchmark ) then there will be trouble. I hope his populist rhetoric was just electioneeing and not his beliefs.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, the Russians. Thought that was Bill's Wife.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It is not wise to act as though you are Russia's lap dog...


Confession time?



Freddie_Biff said:


> A wise person knows when to shut up.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> With no real proof, it is just your opinion.


Democratic heads roll after video shows agitators planted at Trump rallies



> Two top Democratic strategists have exited the presidential campaign after explosive undercover videos showed them discussing voter fraud and their roles in planting paid agitators at campaign events for Republican candidate Donald Trump.


----------



## Macfury

I love this mug!


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I think the Washington Post has had the most bias against Trump in relation to media coverage. I am certainly not a Trump supporter and I do read the Post. They most certainly give credence to his assertion that the media is bias. To the heart of the matter, this campaign may fan the already existing flames of racial divide in the U.S., and it certainly will give the impression that it will be "top-down". I have acquaintances in California and they speak of the rise of visual Klan events and the increasing use of the word "N****r. They thought that they have moved beyond that but feel that it will be 1960 all over again. Trump's biggest challenge will be to end this rising tide which he embraced as the populist candidate and begin to be the President for everyone in America, not just for the rich, the white, and the Protestant. If he can't do that within the first 100 days ( which seems to be the benchmark ) then there will be trouble. I hope his populist rhetoric was just electioneeing and not his beliefs.


Not sure why anyone would expect him to veer that dramatically away from the course set by Bush and Obama. Even Hillary made clear her allegiance to the wealthy and powerful.

Still we shall see. Wonder if he will expect Canada to pay for and build a wall to keep Americans out?

Part of the Republican platform was the repeal of both FATCA and Citizenship Based Taxation. Given the Republicans now control everything I would love to see him at least repeal FATCA, and the associated IRS extortion forms immediately. Of course DT is now an accidental politician so I doubt we will see that happen.


----------



## FeXL

You still don't get it. Whatever depths Trump plumbed, he's head, shoulders & arse above Bill's Wife. She lost because of her complete absence of integrity, not because half of America is sexist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, whatever.

Get over it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Seems that me that when Trump lowered the bar for what's "acceptable" in America, he lowered it for all citizens.


----------



## eMacMan

I would suggest that peaceful protests are far beyond acceptable they are mandatory. The election system in the US assures that all federal politicians are owned, body and soul, by those who finance their election campaigns. 

The only voice non-billionaires have is through protest! Where citizens have no voice, there is no democracy regardless of the illusions created by the election process.


----------



## FeXL

So, there are several things about American politics I am unclear about. This is one of them.

Could Obama's last act as president be pardoning Hillary?

*If* (yes, that's a big if  ) Bill's Wife has done nothing wrong, questionable, illegal, immoral, whatever... Why would she need a presidential pardon? Is that not tantamount to confirming she is guilty but everything's OK, she received a pardon? 

Questions, questions, questions...

I understand there is precedent, with Nixon.

Now, can a Presidential Pardon be pulled by a subsequent President? Why or why not?

And this, from the article linked above:



> Taking a cue from Conway, the president’s spokesman indicated today that he too believed Trump move on from Clinton in the wake of his victory.
> 
> ‘We have a long tradition in this country of people in power not using the criminal justice system to enact political revenge,’ he also said. ‘In fact we go a long way to insulate the criminal justice system from partisan politics.’


It's not a matter of political revenge. She broke the law. The FBI have admitted as much. Why would this not be pursued to the highest court in the land?


----------



## Dr.G.

"I hope his populist rhetoric was just electioneeing and not his beliefs. " We shall see, Rp. For the record, this is not "populist rhetoric", just outright overt racist language. A populist and progressive person does not use such language and does NOT hold these sorts of beliefs. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

We would also welcome them here in Lunenburg, NS.


----------



## Macfury

I suppose you haven't read Podesta's WIKILeaks e-mails.



Dr.G. said:


> A populist and progressive person does not use such language and does NOT hold these sorts of beliefs. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Only the Scots! LOL!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You still don't get it. Whatever depths Trump plumbed, he's head, shoulders & arse above Bill's Wife. She lost because of her complete absence of integrity, not because half of America is sexist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Get over it.



FeXL, if you want to worship an ignorant boorish narcissist, be my guest. But please don't tell me I don't get it. I get it very well. The alt-right has gained a very strong foothold in American society, supported by groups like the KKK and white supremacists, and now they've been granted validation and a sense of entitlement. You act like Hillary Clinton got her ass kicked, when in fact she actually gathered more votes than Trump did. Trump gathered them in the right places to give him the electoral college, and I notice he's not complaining any more about the system being rigged. What's clear is that America is very much a divided country now and it's not going to be quite so easy to "make America great again." 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Tinfoil hat time! Love these "alt-right" conspiracies.

And your gal Hillary lost the election--BIGLY!



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, if you want to worship an ignorant boorish narcissist, be my guest. But please don't tell me I don't get it. I get it very well. The alt-right has gained a very strong foothold in American society, supported by groups like the KKK and white supremacists, and now they've been granted validation and a sense of entitlement. You act like Hillary Clinton got her ass kicked, when in fact she actually gathered more votes than Trump did. Trump gathered them in the right places to give him the electoral college, and I notice he's not complaining any more about the system being rigged. What's clear is that America is very much a divided country now and it's not going to be quite so easy to "make America great again."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> "I hope his populist rhetoric was just electioneeing and not his beliefs. " We shall see, Rp. For the record, this is not "populist rhetoric", just outright overt racist language. A populist and progressive person does not use such language and does NOT hold these sorts of beliefs. Paix, mon ami.


I think this is the crux of the issue. I believe he espouses the populist view, and from where I live I see an alarming increase in racism across the U.S. I think recent events in the U.S. Between the Police and Afro-American communities lies in much of the discourse Trump conveys. I've said it before, the U.S. national anthem will be Bad Moon Rising before his term is over. However his election didn't shock me as much as when The W got elected to a second term.......now that really amazed me.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Tinfoil hat time! Love these "alt-right" conspiracies.
> 
> And your gal Hillary lost the election--BIGLY!


While the numbers say no, you are right.....she couldn't put him away when it seemed so obvious he was not fit for the job....that was her undoing, and if she couldn't do that she would never had made a good President in my opinion.


----------



## eMacMan

The votes cast difference between Hillary and Trump amounted to a draw. It was so close one can easily imagine that each of nearly 120 million voters entered the booth and flipped a coin. 

I am pretty sure that more than 50% of voters considered both candidates completely unworthy of the position. Sadly both parties decided to put forth rubbish. Whichever loser won, the nation was bound to come out as the biggest loser. 

Still if Trump Dumps TPP and its European counterpart, maybe the hairdo will reconsider giving multi-national corporations the power to over-ride Parliament and provincial governments.


----------



## bse5150

I wonder if the trains will run on time?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> While the numbers say no, you are right.....she couldn't put him away when it seemed so obvious he was not fit for the job....that was her undoing, and if she couldn't do that she would never had made a good President in my opinion.


She couldn't put him away because people thought SHE was unfit for the job!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> She couldn't put him away because people thought SHE was unfit for the job!


Well that is an equally valid position!


----------



## FeXL

Deal with it, fjn. She lost. It is President-elect Trump, not Bill's Wife. Don't care how many votes she got, don't care about regions, nothing. 

The 40 year Clinton Dynasty in America is done. Butter 'em, they're toast. Stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Nah, nah, nah, nah, hey-ey. Goom-bye. 

The only icing that could be spread on this fortuitous finish is tossing her butt in jail, along with the dissolution of the CF.

Related:

EXCLUSIVE: Experts Question If Clinton Foundation Will Survive



> Clinton Foundation officials now face a potentially devastating barrage of investigations by Congress, federal regulatory agencies, state attorneys general and perhaps a probe by a special prosecutor, according to federal law enforcement and philanthropy regulation experts.
> 
> The months ahead could determine what kind of future, if any, the Clinton Foundation can have as Congress and the new administration of President-elect Donald Trump take what is certain to be a tough look the ethical and legal issues that have swirled for years around the troubled charity.


Related, too (an abbreviated list, but it gets the point across):

Death of a dynasty that was rotten to its core: After 40 years of sex, lies and scandals, the Clintons are to leave public life beset by a crushing humiliation



> Almost 40 years after Bill and Hillary Clinton first entered American public life, they are to leave it beset by crushing humiliation.
> 
> There will be no first female U.S. President — this time. History will not be made by a wife following her two-term husband into the Oval Office. There will be no dynasty, no President Hillary Clinton.
> 
> *Why did they think they deserved otherwise?*


M'bold.

Because rules are just for the little people.

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt anymore...



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, blah, blah, blah...


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> I think recent events in the U.S. Between the Police and Afro-American communities lies in much of the discourse Trump conveys.


Rps, I am literally stunned to read this. Seriously. Have you not been listening, reading, whatever, to the divisive discourse that Obama has been spewing for the last couple of years? There is a world leader responsible for many of the current racial problems in the US. 

It sure as hell isn't Donald Trump.


----------



## FeXL

The compassionate, intellectual left...

Fears over Trump assassination calls as twitter trolls demand president elect is murdered



> The social networking site has been slammed for its inability to clamp down on criminals who threaten users with violence.
> 
> Indeed Disney is believed to have walked away from a deal to buy the company due to the nasty rhetoric it freely allows to be distributed.
> 
> Now scores of people have taken aim at Donald Trump threatening to assassinate him after he was elected to take over the White House.
> 
> They called on Mr Trump to be killed last night after his historic win and even created the hashtag #AssasinateTrump.


‘People Have to Die’: Anti-Trump Protester Calls For Violence on CNN



> During the massive anti-Donald Trump protests held in California the day after Election Day, one woman CNN spoke to called for violence and death as a means to enact political change.
> 
> “If we don’t fight, who is going to fight for us? People had to die for your freedom where we’re at today. We can’t just do rallies, we have to fight back,” said Lily, a Latina woman from Los Angeles.


----------



## FeXL

As well it should.

Rolling Stone’s False Rape Story Will End The Magazine



> I doubt Rolling Stone has the assets to pay all the damages awards, and the brand is likely too damaged to attract buyers. After all, the magazine has a long history of courting controversy to sell copies, from running questionable child molestation stories (also Erdely) to turning the Boston Bomber into a heartthrob to fueling vaccination fear. This defamation suit is only the most recent scandal for the magazine — and likely its last.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> As well it should.
> 
> Rolling Stone’s False Rape Story Will End The Magazine


Happy to see this past-expiry rag die, along with its outsized reputation.


----------



## wonderings

CNN is reporting that the Calexit (California's secession) is growing in California. Talk about an extreme over reaction. Trump has done nothing in office yet and people are acting like their very lives are in danger. I was reading another article on CNN, a Muslim woman was trembling, in great fear for her life now. She is a US citizen, nothing will change, I seriously doubt now that Trump has been elected that friends and neighbours will raise up their pitch forks and act completely different then they had before the election. Maybe it is just me, but this all seems way over the top, especially since nothing has happened.
Interest in #Calexit growing after Donald Trump victory - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Meanwhile, "Bill's wife" will be grinning from ear to ear. Better get used to it. Repeat after me: Madam President...Madam President...Madam President....


Mem-o-ries.......!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Could Obama's last act as president be pardoning Hillary?
> 
> *If* (yes, that's a big if  ) Bill's Wife has done nothing wrong, questionable, illegal, immoral, whatever... Why would she need a presidential pardon? Is that not tantamount to confirming she is guilty but everything's OK, she received a pardon?
> 
> .....
> 
> It's not a matter of political revenge. She broke the law. The FBI have admitted as much. Why would this not be pursued to the highest court in the land?


This came up a couple of pages ago in this thread. My comment:



> I don't believe the logistics of such a thing are possible, given that no charges have been laid against her, no court proceeding has even begun that might eventually find her guilty of something. Obama has no power in the time between now and Trump's taking of office to issue Clinton a pardon.


----------



## Macfury

Yeah--this is nuts!



wonderings said:


> CNN is reporting that the Calexit (California's secession) is growing in California. Talk about an extreme over reaction. Trump has done nothing in office yet and people are acting like their very lives are in danger. I was reading another article on CNN, a Muslim woman was trembling, in great fear for her life now. She is a US citizen, nothing will change, I seriously doubt now that Trump has been elected that friends and neighbours will raise up their pitch forks and act completely different then they had before the election. Maybe it is just me, but this all seems way over the top, especially since nothing has happened.
> Interest in #Calexit growing after Donald Trump victory - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Rps, I am literally stunned to read this. Seriously. Have you not been listening, reading, whatever, to the divisive discourse that Obama has been spewing for the last couple of years? There is a world leader responsible for many of the current racial problems in the US.


Could you elaborate? Provide some examples? 

You can leave out this pretty dumb article from the N_ational Review _("How Obama Divides America" since the only quotse it offers as evidence from Obama are:

_“none of us is entirely innocent” when it comes to racial discrimination – “and that includes our police departments.”_​
and​
_“It is easier for a teenager to buy a Glock than get his hands on a computer or even a book”_​
Has Obama said anything that even approaches the heights of offensiveness that Trump attained?

_“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

* * *​
"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.”

* * *​“In many respects, you know, they honor President Obama. He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder. He founded ISIS.”

* * *​
*Trump:* “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States … ”

*NBC:* “Should there be a database system that tracks the Muslims here in this country?”

*Trump: *“I would certainly implement that. Absolutely. … There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases.”

* * *​
“Ariana Huffington is unattractive, both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man – he made a good decision.”

* * *​
“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.” 

* * *​
“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’”
_​
These are direct quotes... there are others that are attributed to Trump that are not direct from the horse's mouth, which are worse.

So: Obama's record of divisive discourse, then?


----------



## Dr.G.

Justin Trudeau invites Donald Trump to visit Canada in call that marks 'strong beginning' - Politics - CBC News

Hopefully, some good news will be exchanged between these two leaders. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Deal with it, fjn. She lost. It is President-elect Trump, not Bill's Wife. Don't care how many votes she got, don't care about regions, nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> The 40 year Clinton Dynasty in America is done. Butter 'em, they're toast. Stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Nah, nah, nah, nah, hey-ey. Goom-bye.
> 
> 
> 
> The only icing that could be spread on this fortuitous finish is tossing her butt in jail, along with the dissolution of the CF.
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Experts Question If Clinton Foundation Will Survive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related, too (an abbreviated list, but it gets the point across):
> 
> 
> 
> Death of a dynasty that was rotten to its core: After 40 years of sex, lies and scandals, the Clintons are to leave public life beset by a crushing humiliation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> Because rules are just for the little people.
> 
> 
> 
> Denial. Not just a river in Egypt anymore...




Best wishes to Melania's husband. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

*Like I said before...*

I will state it less bluntly this time. 

The fact of the matter is that the US has been in a constant state of "political" civil war before and after the actual "civil war" occurred, so this election is nothing new really. It is just more of the same old same old, on a different day in a different year.

Anyone who reads or knows just the tiniest bit of US history is aware of that.


----------



## Dr.G.

From W.H. Auden’s poem, "September 1, 1939", which concludes:

“Defenseless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.”


May we all hunt for that affirming flame.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It was still rigged as Project Veritas showed. Trump voters overwhelmed the fraud and rigging.


----------



## SINC

Oh boy, just what The Donald needs.


Al Gore offers to work with Trump on climate change. Good luck with that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-trump-on-climate-change-good-luck-with-that/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Don't listen to this if blue language offends you. But I do believe this guy's got it. 
(From another forum)

Jonahan Pie - as spot on as you can get!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Pie knew that the Trump revolution was coming--and Freddie you told people to get used to saying "Madam President." He tells people to try to convince others of their opinions--and Freddie you back off and get butt hurt when people want you to do just that. He says that Progs are trying to make people ashamed simply to express their opinions--and you Freddie are demanding moderators on this site to shut people down so that they wont hurt your feelings. 

Essentially, Pie is pointing his finger at you, Freddie.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't listen to this if blue language offends you. But I do believe this guy's got it.
> (From another forum)
> 
> Jonahan Pie - as spot on as you can get!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Pie knew that the Trump revolution was coming--and Freddie you told people to get used to saying "Madam President." He tells people to try to convince others of their opinions--and Freddie you back off and get butt hurt when people want you to do just that. He says that Progs are trying to make people ashamed simply to express their opinions--and you Freddie are demanding moderators on this site to shut people down so that they wont hurt your feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, Pie is pointing his finger at you, Freddie.



Why are you pointing your finger at me, Macfury? I'm the one that shared it. Don't be an ass. Gloating isn't a becoming quality. 

I posted this because I agree—he's right. That doesn't make Trump a good or even acceptable choice. The Dems should have gone with Bernie Sanders—what Dr. G and I have been saying from the start. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I'm not pointing the finger at you--the guy in the video is! He described you to a _T_ as the type of person that he blames for a Trump victory. Don't go after me--you posted it!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why are you pointing your finger at me, Macfury? I'm the one that shared it. Don't be an ass. Gloating isn't a becoming quality.


----------



## Macfury

The Democrats never learn:

Chelsea Clinton being groomed to run for Congress | New York Post


----------



## Macfury

Much of the US handwringing assumes that Hillary held the "correct" positions and that her only failure was her ability to persuade. Democrats need to look at their wrongheaded policies first.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The Democrats never learn:
> 
> Chelsea Clinton being groomed to run for Congress | New York Post


I believe the Stateside death toll surrounding Mom & Pop ambitions is now up around 40. Wonder how many more will give their lives to continue the Clinton Cabal dienasty.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I believe the Stateside death toll surrounding Mom & Pop ambitions is now up around 40. Wonder how many more will give their lives to continue the Clinton Cabal dienasty.


The FBI investigation into the Clinton Foundation has never let up, and WIKILeaks reveals that Chelsea was accused internally of using Foundation money to pay her living expenses--even to help finance her luxury wedding. She's certainly met the basic requirements of continuing the dynasty.


----------



## Macfury

This one is truly amazing. Video on the page link:

VIDEO: Anti-Trump rioters brawl - with each other! - The American MirrorThe American Mirror



> As anti-Trump rioters wreaked havoc in the streets of Portland, Oregon on Thursday, *they ended up turning on each other *and brawling in the road way.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This one is truly amazing. Video on the page link:


Beat me to it.

I jes' luvs it when the left eat their own...


----------



## macintosh doctor

eMacMan said:


> I believe the Stateside death toll surrounding Mom & Pop ambitions is now up around 40. Wonder how many more will give their lives to continue the Clinton Cabal dienasty.


agreed, unfortunately the Clintons are blinded by pure corruption and financial greed, it is truly disturbing - but yet the left will refuse to admit it.

Not to mention America has gone so far left and off the deep end that the riots are the results of the left always assuming they are correct and forcing their lifestyles upon others, everyone being offended etc - everyone is a blue ribbon recipient .

Trump was the direct result of the silent majority being suppressed to a point they have had enough. In the end the left is completely to blame for all that is happening.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The Democrats never learn:


From the linked article:



> In the past few years, she has taken a very visible role in the Clinton Foundation...


And it is exactly this association with the CF that will be the undoing of Bill's Daughter. Mark my words...


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> From the linked article:
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly this association with the CF that will be the undoing of Bill's Daughter. Mark my words...


I agree, and so may the money Trump lent to himself to run for President, which he took back when the donations came in......power and greed the Clintons and Trumps.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Rps, I am literally stunned to read this. Seriously. Have you not been listening, reading, whatever, to the divisive discourse that Obama has been spewing for the last couple of years? There is a world leader responsible for many of the current racial problems in the US.
> 
> It sure as hell isn't Donald Trump.


Im sorry, I guess I missed the rally where the KKK came out to support Obama.


----------



## FeXL

There's a link in the _Daily Mail_ article to another article in _Politico._

In it they note that Ford's pardon of Nixon came before any charges were laid. However, I believe the pardon was also placed after Ford took office.

The article notes the difficulties associated with pardoning her for _everything_.



CubaMark said:


> This came up a couple of pages ago in this thread. My comment:


----------



## Rps

Just a small point........don't you have to be charged before you are pardoned?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Im sorry, I guess I missed the rally where the KKK came out to support Obama.


What you missed is Obama's frequent intervention and commentary on local matters involving any purported black victim. In many cases, he spoke long before the facts were known and wound up supporting the people who were found guilty: Trayvon Martin, for example. May have been hard for him to resist using the bully pulpit, but this sowed a lot of dissent. Also, look at Democrat mayors of cities such as Baltimore telling the police to "stand down" to allow rioters their "right to vent" to destroy a specific section of city businesses.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Just a small point........don't you have to be charged before you are pardoned?


If that were the case, Hill would now be begging the FBI to charge her with something... ANYTHING!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm not pointing the finger at you--the guy in the video is! He described you to a _T_ as the type of person that he blames for a Trump victory. Don't go after me--you posted it!



What you fail to understand (and some of your allies on these boards) is that what you call "debate" is not debate at all. Your stock and trade is insults and belittling. I have little patience for someone who's so entrenched in their world view that any evidence that I take time to present is shot down within ten seconds of reading. Perhaps you feel the same about me. Either way, it's not a debate or even a discussion. It's simply contradiction—the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. When I retreat from this sort of exchange it's because I see the exchange as having become pointless. It may have started with good intentions, but because the rules of engagement are not respected (as they are in moderated forums) they can get real ugly real fast. 

I've always liked the Pythons' take on what a debate is not. 
https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Just a small point........don't you have to be charged before you are pardoned?


It was a rather ugly precedent that Ford set. Enshrined because no-one really wanted to challenge it.

What it comes down to is most politicians would be in jail, were they not in effect above the law. Naturally their major concern centers on covering their own a$$e$, rather than pursuing justice. 

Whether Trump fully understands this code, there is little doubt he has already benefited from it.


----------



## Macfury

You're blind to Pie's criticism... of people such as yourself. It's not a debate, it's a discussion. You want to be coddled and protected in the rough-and-tumble marketplace of ideas or you go home and wrap yourself in a blanket of self-righteousness and indignation. When Notley's ass gets handed to her in the next election, Alberta progs will be having the same discussion, laying much of the blame on people who simply refuse to cajole, inform or attempt to convince unless the public forum was rigged in their favour.




Freddie_Biff said:


> What you fail to understand (and some of your allies on these boards) is that what you call "debate" is not debate at all. Your stock and trade is insults and belittling. I have little patience for someone who's so entrenched in their world view that any evidence that I take time to present is shot down within ten seconds of reading. Perhaps you feel the same about me. Either way, it's not a debate or even a discussion. It's simply contradiction—the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. When I retreat from this sort of exchange it's because I see the exchange as having become pointless. It may have started with good intentions, but because the rules of engagement are not respected (as they are in moderated forums) they can get real ugly real fast.
> 
> I've always liked the Pythons' take on what a debate is not.
> https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're blind to Pie's criticism... of people such as yourself. It's not a debate, it's a discussion. You want to be coddled and protected in the rough-and-tumble marketplace of ideas or you go home and wrap yourself in a blanket of self-righteousness and indignation. When Notley's ass gets handed to her in the next election, Alberta progs will be having the same discussion, laying much of the blame on people who simply refuse to cajole, inform or attempt to convince unless the public forum was rigged in their favour.



Macfury: why do you have to be such an asshole about this? I posted the clip to show some humility. You turn around and try to rub it in my face. I'M AGREEING WITH YOU FOR ****'S SAKE. Never expose a weakness to Macfury. He'll just capitalize on it. Happy Remembrance Day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

How are you agreeing with me? I think Pie is correct about why prog/left Americans were so despised, but not why Trump won. Even though Bernie should have been the Democrat candidate, that would not have succeeded either. The real problem was that the _ideas_ of the American left were being rejected. Being more humble about discussing those ideas is only a start.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury: why do you have to be such an asshole about this? I posted the clip to show some humility. You turn around and try to rub it in my face. I'M AGREEING WITH YOU FOR ****'S SAKE. Never expose a weakness to Macfury. He'll just capitalize on it. Happy Remembrance Day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It was still rigged as Project Veritas showed. Trump voters overwhelmed the fraud and rigging.


 :lmao: What a f**king laugh. Voter fraud and vote rigging are not the same thing. Rigging means that it happens at the highest levels and voter fraud is on a much smaller scale.

You vehemently denied that there was not any vote rigging when Stephen Harper last came into power and you were correct. But now when there is no proof let alone any serious allegation that it occurred in the US you are willing to cite some extremely right of centre web site as an authority. 

The hypocrisy is palpable, not to mention you are a very bad winner!

Even the Donald displayed more class in his victory speech.


----------



## Macfury

That's why I spoke about both fraud AND rigging.

The rigging was that which was exposed by Project Veritas. Scott Foval has already admitted that he was paid by the DNC to rig votes on a grand scale. Voter fraud on both sides was identified. Trump overcame them all with a deluge of votes.

When Stephen Harper last won and last lost I said there was no fraud because I could see no evidence of it. Trudeau won fair and square. I accepted the one faked robocall as election fraud on behalf of the Conservatives. So no hypocrisy!



screature said:


> :lmao: What a f**king laugh. Voter fraud and vote rigging are not the same thing. Rigging means that it happens at the highest levels and voter fraud is on a much smaller scale.
> 
> You vehemently denied that there was not any vote rigging when Stephen Harper last came into power and you were correct. But now when there is no proof let alone any serious allegation that it occurred in the US you are willing to cite some extremely right of centre web site as an authority.
> 
> The hypocrisy is palpable, not to mention you are a very bad winner!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Pie knew that *the Trump revolution* was coming--and Freddie you told people to get used to saying "Madam President." He tells people to try to convince others of their opinions--and Freddie you back off and get butt hurt when people want you to do just that. He says that Progs are trying to make people ashamed simply to express their opinions--and you Freddie are demanding moderators on this site to shut people down so that they wont hurt your feelings.
> 
> Essentially, Pie is pointing his finger at you, Freddie.


Really? A revolution? Talk about extreme hyperbole and misuse of the word. 

In terms of popular vote Clinton won. So please tell me how the Donald's* electoral* victory represents a revolution in any shape or form? You can't because there was no revolution just an election that Trump won narrowly because of the electoral college, akin to our electoral system where certain provinces carry more electoral weight than others. Something that in the past you have called into question.

So no there is no Trump revolution, he just won by a loaded democratic vote and just barely.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> That's why I spoke about both fraud AND rigging.
> 
> The rigging was that which was exposed by Project Veritas. Scott Foval has already admitted that he was paid by the DNC to rig votes on a grand scale. Voter fraud on both sides was identified. Trump overcame them all with a deluge of votes.
> 
> When Stephen Harper last won and last lost I said there was no fraud because I could see no evidence of it. Trudeau won fair and square. I accepted the *one faked robocall as election fraud on behalf of the Conservatives*. So no hypocrisy!


One guy! 

And here in Canada it was not on *behalf* of the Conservatives just one, maybe two guys without any top down directive.

Unless you can show wide spread rigging and organized fraud there is no rigging. Just some low level overly zealous people willing to do what ever it takes to make their guy and Party win.


----------



## Macfury

It was a revolution of voters against the establishment: media, pundits, the Democrat and Republican parties, and Hillary Clinton, all of whom aligned themselves against Trump. From a storytelling perspective, it was an incredible journey of one person persevering against incredible odds to take the biggest prize in American politics.

I may have my own opinions on how Canada's elections should be run, but this is America's, where popular vote is not an issue and the electoral college is the currency of victory. And Donald SMOKED that election!



screature said:


> Really? A revolution? Talk about extreme hyperbole and misuse of the word.
> 
> In terms of popular vote Clinton won. So please tell me how the Donald's* electoral* victory represents a revolution in any shape or form? You can't because there was no revolution just an election that Trump won narrowly because of the electoral college, akin to our electoral system where certain provinces carry more electoral weight than others. Something that in the past you have called into question.
> 
> So no there is no Trump revolution, he just won by a loaded democratic vote and just barely.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> One guy!
> 
> And here in Canada it was not on *behalf* of the Conservatives just one, maybe two guys without any top down directive.
> 
> Unless you can show wide spread rigging and organized fraud there is no rigging. Just some low level overly zealous people willing to do what ever it takes to make their guy and Party win.


screature, with all respect, I doubt I could prove it to your satisfaction. The Project Veritas videos were thorough in outing numerous Democrat operatives who were part of a country-wide operation. WIKILeaks filled in the financial connection to the DNC and Clinton campaign, causing the DNC to throw both Bob Creamer and Scott Foval under the bus. If you believe that their rigging had no effect on the election, that's cool with me.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> One guy!
> 
> And here in Canada it was not on *behalf* of the Conservatives just one, maybe two guys without any top down directive.
> 
> Unless you can show wide spread rigging and organized fraud there is no rigging. Just some low level overly zealous people willing to do what ever it takes to make their guy and Party win.


The committed the fraud _on behalf of_ the Conservative Party--i.e., to benefit that party. I don't believe it was top-down.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It was a revolution of voters against the establishment: media, pundits, the Democrat and Republican parties, and Hillary Clinton, all of whom aligned themselves against Trump. From a storytelling perspective, it was an incredible journey of one person persevering against incredible odds to take the biggest prize in American politics.
> 
> I may have my own opinions on how Canada's elections should be run, but this is America's, where popular vote is not an issue and the electoral college is the currency of victory. And Donald SMOKED that election!


You are quite hilarious even down to defending your misuse of words.

There was no revolution. Period. There was an election, everything else you say is just your own opinion which is misguided at best. How incredible were his odds when he is a BILLIONAIRE with plenty of money to pay for influence and support???!!! Hmmm???

An incredible journey? No because money talks and he had the most, probably because he has not paid taxes for a decade. 

You want a story of an incredible journey and a revolutionary look to someone like Che Guevara. I am not saying that I agree with all that he did, but he is the stuff of what revolutions are made of, not privileged billionaires like the Donald who was born with a golden spoon in his mouth.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The committed the fraud _on behalf of_ the Conservative Party--i.e., to benefit that party. I don't believe it was top-down.


Yes they did commit a fraud but not "on behalf of the CPC" if it were on behalf on the CPC, then the CPC would have had knowledge of and authorized their actions.

You could say I did X for screature but without my consent or knowledge you did not do it on my behalf. Capiche?


----------



## Macfury

Though his odds were handicapped by Nate Silver of 538 at 28%, by the New York Times at 15% and equally dismally by other statisticians, Trump prevailed--while spending less than half for his campaign than did Clinton. He was counting on a voter-driven revolution against the "progressive" tide so he didn't need to spend that money. 

Guevera was also a revolutionary, but he killed more people than Trump.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Yes they did commit a fraud but not "on behalf of the CPC" if it were on behalf on the CPC, then the CPC would have had knowledge of and authorized their actions.
> 
> You could say I did X for screature but without my consent or knowledge you did not do it on my behalf. Capiche?


The term can be used either to describe action as a proxy for another party with explicit permission and direction OR as an effort made on behalf of, or in the interest of another party. I think I made it clear that that I was using it in the second sense--that is, not from the top down or with the knowledge of the party heads.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hope springs eternal.


----------



## ehMax

Dr.G. said:


> Hope springs eternal.


Unfortunately, his age is against him. He'll be 79 years old. Trump is now the oldest ever elected president at 70. 

I really wish Bernie was elected. I do hope the current democratic party gets demolished and with Bernie's help, put forth a true progressive for the next election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Really? A revolution? Talk about extreme hyperbole and misuse of the word.
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of popular vote Clinton won. So please tell me how the Donald's* electoral* victory represents a revolution in any shape or form? You can't because there was no revolution just an election that Trump won narrowly because of the electoral college, akin to our electoral system where certain provinces carry more electoral weight than others. Something that in the past you have called into question.
> 
> 
> 
> So no there is no Trump revolution, he just won by a loaded democratic vote and just barely.



I think the video also shows that Hillary's use of the term "deplorables" did not win her any converts, and that the Dems took their prospects and the polls for granted. The Trump side was rife with corruption, but for whatever reason, it didn't seem to cost him anything. He probably could shoot a guy on 5th Avenue and not lose any votes. Still, Hillary winning the popular vote is pretty impressive, even if proved to be an insufficient strategy. The Electoral College system is definitely flawed, but it's what they have unless they change it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> It was a revolution of voters against the establishment: media, pundits, the Democrat and Republican parties, and Hillary Clinton, all of whom aligned themselves against Trump. From a storytelling perspective, it was an incredible journey of one person persevering against incredible odds to take the biggest prize in American politics.


I'd have to strongly agree with that.


----------



## Macfury

I also hope the Democrats become more "progressive"--because that will ensure a decade or two in the political wilderness for them!

Seriously, one has to pick and choose policy points carefully. I think Trump was quick to promise no major alterations to the social safety net for a reason. He was also quick to promise to overturn the portion of Dodd-Frank involving bank bailouts. One can be pro-business AND look out for citizens at the same time.





ehMax said:


> Unfortunately, his age is against him. He'll be 79 years old. Trump is now the oldest ever elected president at 70.
> 
> I really wish Bernie was elected. I do hope the current democratic party gets demolished and with Bernie's help, put forth a true progressive for the next election.


----------



## Dr.G.

ehMax said:


> Unfortunately, his age is against him. He'll be 79 years old. Trump is now the oldest ever elected president at 70.
> 
> I really wish Bernie was elected. I do hope the current democratic party gets demolished and with Bernie's help, put forth a true progressive for the next election.


Mr. Mayor, keep the faith. 80 is the new 70.  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Once again, someday soon, we shall "feel the bern". Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Electoral College system is definitely flawed, but it's what they have unless they change it.


Like Maine, any state could change its Electoral College system to more closely reflect its popular vote by breaking the state into districts. However, that would probably favour Republicans by carving off safe non-urban zones. As it is NYC can carry New York State and LA can carry California and deliver all of those states' Electoral College votes--almost by themselves. 

That's one reason for the Electoral College in the first place. It prevents four or five major cities from deciding every election.


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> I also hope the Democrats become more "progressive"--because that will ensure a decade or two in the political wilderness for them!
> 
> Seriously, one has to pick and choose policy points carefully. I think Trump was quick to promise no major alterations to the social safety net for a reason. He was also quick to promise to overturn the portion of Dodd-Frank involving bank bailouts. One can be pro-business AND look out for citizens at the same time.


I strongly disagree. If Bernie was running, I think he would of trounced Trump. I think if the Democratic party presents a clean, truly progressive candidiate, who actually comes out with a detailed platform with poilicy (Instead of just saying... vote for me cause I'm not as bad as Trump), they would win. I think this will especially be the case when Trump's first term won't go well, but we'll see. I would love for him to pleasantly surprise the left. I'll give him the chance, and won't jump on every single thing he does. 

One does have to choose policy points carefully, and I think he will go all in on denying climate-change, and it will come back to bite him hard next election. We'll see in 4 years!

I'm not surprised at all at him getting voted in. I have to admit... I am so happy Hillary Clinton is not in office. I do hope she gets prosecuted.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The term can be used either to describe action as a proxy for another party with explicit permission and direction *OR as an effort made on behalf of, or in the interest of another party*. I think I made it clear that that I was using it in the second sense--that is, not from the top down or with the knowledge of the party heads.


Committing fraud of any kind to supposedly benefit any person without their knowledge (especially a public figure) who is supposed to be the benefactor of said fraud is not in the interest of the other party so long as they are law abiding, so your point is illogical in practice and in law. By doing so the fraudster does a disservice to the person who they were mistakenly trying to help.

I know you understand the difference *but as per usual you try to weasel your way out just to try and win an argument so as to not have to admit defeat or any possible weakness*. But in a court of law if you were a lawyer you would fail to defend your client IMO.


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> One does have to choose policy points carefully, and I think he will go all in on denying climate-change, and it will come back to bite him hard next election. We'll see in 4 years!


He will likely act on pollution but not CO2--except as it applies to clean coal. US carbon output is decreasing simply because of a switch to natural gas.



ehMax said:


> I have to admit... I am so happy Hillary Clinton is not in office. I do hope she gets prosecuted.


If she is guilty, may the judges rule fairly!


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Committing fraud of any kind to supposedly benefit any person without their knowledge (especially a public figure) who is supposed to be the benefactor of said fraud is not in the interest of the other party so long as they are law abiding, so your point is illogical in practice and in law. By doing so the fraudster does a disservice to the person who they were mistakenly trying to help.


I absolutely agree that the fraudster does a disservice to the supposed beneficiary, regardless of success or motives.


----------



## Macfury

Get 'em while they're hot--a trophy of mainstream media arrogance:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Get 'em while they're hot--a trophy of mainstream media arrogance:


----------



## rgray




----------



## rgray




----------



## rgray




----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Get 'em while they're hot--a trophy of mainstream media arrogance:


I hope that $650 is what Newsweek is paying to have one of those taken off their hands.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Get 'em while they're hot--a trophy of mainstream media arrogance:


To be fair, that kind of thing happens a lot. Books and other commemorative pieces get done well in advance. We worked on a President Obama coffee table book that was printed several months before the 2008 election. The Stanley Cup championship hats and shirts are all made up for both teams that make it to the final, etc.

In this case, Newsweek's licensor made both a Trump and a Clinton edition.

https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/795694606335770624/photo/1


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...anti-establishment-guess-what-you-got-conned/

While I did not expect Trump to win, this does not surprise me in the least.


----------



## Macfury

I realize they had a second version written and designed, but they only printed and shipped one of them. My point is that they were so sure of a Clinton victory they printed the first run in advance.



heavyall said:


> To be fair, that kind of thing happens a lot. Books and other commemorative pieces get done well in advance. We worked on a President Obama coffee table book that was printed several months before the 2008 election. The Stanley Cup championship hats and shirts are all made up for both teams that make it to the final, etc.
> 
> In this case, Newsweek's licensor made both a Trump and a Clinton edition.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/795694606335770624/photo/1


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...anti-establishment-guess-what-you-got-conned/
> 
> 
> 
> While I did not expect Trump to win, this does not surprise me in the least.



With his flip flop already on Obamacare, his biggest campaign promise, Trump is set to become an even bigger puppet for the neocons than George W Bush. And he REALLY is not looking forward to leaving Trump Tower and moving in to the White House. Be careful what you wish for, DT. 



















https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-doesnt-like-this-any-more-than-you-do-1788862854


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I wept for the man who had no ideas, until I met a man who expressed himself only in memes.


----------



## Macfury

*Cognitive dissonance cluster bomb...*

Scott Adams is spot-on:



> Generally speaking, the greater the persuasion, the more cognitive dissonance you get. Trump is – in my opinion – the greatest persuader of my lifetime. I expected this level of cognitive dissonance. Next time you see a persuader of this magnitude, you can expect the outcome to be cognitive dissonance in that case too.
> 
> This brings me to the anti-Trump protests. The protesters look as though they are protesting Trump, but they are not. They are locked in an imaginary world and battling their own hallucinations of the future. Here’s the setup that triggered them.
> 
> 1. They believe they are smart and well-informed.
> 
> 2. Their good judgement told them Trump is OBVIOUSLY the next Hitler, or something similarly bad.
> 
> 3. Half of the voters of the United States – including a lot of smart people – voted Trump into office anyway.
> 
> Those “facts” can’t be reconciled in the minds of the anti-Trumpers. Mentally, something has to give. That’s where cognitive dissonance comes in.
> 
> There are two ways for an anti-Trumper to interpret that reality. One option is to accept that if half the public doesn’t see Trump as a dangerous monster, perhaps he isn’t. But that would conflict with a person’s self-image as being smart and well-informed in the first place. When you violate a person’s self-image, it triggers cognitive dissonance to explain-away the discrepancy.
> 
> So how do you explain-away Trump’s election if you think you are smart and you think you are well-informed and you think Trump is OBVIOUSLY a monster?
> 
> You solve for that incongruity by hallucinating – literally – that Trump supporters KNOW Trump is a monster and they PREFER the monster. In this hallucination, the KKK is not a nutty fringe group but rather a symbol of how all Trump supporters must feel. (They don’t. Not even close.)
> 
> In a rational world it would be obvious that Trump supporters include lots of brilliant and well-informed people. That fact – as obvious as it would seem – is invisible to the folks who can’t even imagine a world in which their powers of perception could be so wrong. To reconcile their world, they have to imagine all Trump supporters as defective in some moral or cognitive way, or both.


The Cognitive Dissonance Cluster Bomb | Scott Adams' Blog


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

"With his flip flop already on Obamacare, his biggest campaign promise, Trump is set to become an even bigger puppet for the neocons than George W Bush. And he REALLY is not looking forward to leaving Trump Tower and moving in to the White House. Be careful what you wish for, DT. " Mark, let him "flip flop" all he wants -- restore Obamacare, forget about the wall, forget about deportations, .............. forget all his promises and let him be the third term of Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:clap::clap::clap: Sanders in 2020 ............. what we shall truly need. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Mark, let him "flip flop" all he wants -- restore Obamacare, forget about the wall, forget about deportations, .............. forget all his promises and let him be the third term of Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


Great heavens, people elected him to repudiate Obama's legacy!. I want him to not only blast it clean with a laser-like precision, I want Trump to salt the Earth afterward!!


----------



## Kami

Macfury, which of his campaign promises do you predict that Trump will keep and follow through on?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Great heavens, people elected him to repudiate Obama's legacy!. I want him to not only blast it clean with a laser-like precision, I want Trump to salt the Earth afterward!!


Not if he flip flops, mon ami. He will go with a tried and true progressive agenda ..... and then pass the torch over to Michelle Obama in 2020. That would REALLY make America great again. Way to go, Pres. Trump. Drain the swamp and bring in the liberal progressives. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Kami said:


> Macfury, which of his campaign promises do you predict that Trump will keep and follow through on?


Controlling immigration from terrorist countries, reducing tax rates while eliminating loopholes, enforcing border regulations to a greater degree, defunding sanctuary cities, building a wall (or fence) across the rest of the border, appointing constitutionalist supreme court judges, renegotiating NAFTA, approving the Keystone XL pipeline, rolling back regulations applying to CO2, intensifying clean coal technology application, reforming considerable portions of Obamacare. Improving relations with Russia.

I expect him to take a jab at term limits.


----------



## Macfury

,,


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> ,,


:lmao::lmao:

Good for you, Macfury. Stand with us and look towards a better future. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "With his flip flop already on Obamacare, his biggest campaign promise, Trump is set to become an even bigger puppet for the neocons than George W Bush. And he REALLY is not looking forward to leaving Trump Tower and moving in to the White House. Be careful what you wish for, DT. " Mark, let him "flip flop" all he wants -- restore Obamacare, forget about the wall, forget about deportations, .............. forget all his promises and let him be the third term of Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.




Well, Marc, he won't be the third term of Obama....he will be an extension of the Bush years, only with less actual knowledge. He will be a puppet. Pence will run the country, like Cheney did, with the help of the other neocons. Trump will be told where to sign, since he couldn't possibly read or understand what's in front of him. Pence, the guy who believes in conversion therapy for homosexuals. Pence, the one who outlawed the right of LGBTQ people to even apply for a marriage license. Yup, good times ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

:-(


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, Marc, he won't be the third term of Obama....he will be an extension of the Bush years, only with less actual knowledge. He will be a puppet. Pence will run the country, like Cheney did, with the help of the other neocons. Trump will be told where to sign, since he couldn't possibly read or understand what's in front of him. Pence, the guy who believes in conversion therapy for homosexuals. Pence, the one who outlawed the right of LGBTQ people to even apply for a marriage license. Yup, good times ahead.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not if he does a total flip flop as Macfury said. So, if we can get the likes of Macfury on our side, "happy days are here again". Trump will usher in a new era, much like the New Deal and the Great Society. He truly shall make America great again. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> :-(


Yes, I know a great many people who are crying these days. They voted for the pseudo-Trump, and not what we shall now have -- The Liberal Progressive Trump. As I said in a previous posting, "Happy Days are Here Again". Watch him nominate Pres. Obama for the open Supreme Court position. That will be his first act of showing to one and all that he has "seen the light" and wants to correct "the error or his ways." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/boredpanda/videos/10154727010339252/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

May The Donald follow in Pres. Obama's footsteps ..................


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Not if he does a total flip flop as Macfury said. So, if we can get the likes of Macfury on our side, "happy days are here again". Trump will usher in a new era, much like the New Deal and the Great Society. He truly shall make America great again. Paix, mon ami.



Nope. Having a President fulfill a left wing agenda because he doesn't understand what he's doing is no better than having a President fulfill a right wing agenda because he doesn't know what he's doing. Hillary was right; he's too easily manipulated. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. Having a President fulfill a left wing agenda because he doesn't understand what he's doing is no better than having a President fulfill a right wing agenda because he doesn't know what he's doing. Hillary was right; he's too easily manipulated.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, don't be a party pooper. Even Macfury is on side. So, let us rejoice and see Mr. Flip Flop turn his campaign rhetoric around and show the world that he is made of sterner "stuff", the kind of "stuff" that helped FDR and LBJ create great social programs. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Just Announced He Won't Live In White House Full Time, Wants To Golf & Relax

If true, I would agree with The Donald. His desk in his penthouse atop Trump Tower is far better than the The Resolute desk. His chair at his desk is gold plated ............... not to be seen in the Oval Office.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, don't be a party pooper. Even Macfury is on side. So, let us rejoice and see Mr. Flip Flop turn his campaign rhetoric around and show the world that he is made of sterner "stuff", the kind of "stuff" that helped FDR and LBJ create great social programs. Paix, mon ami.



Ha ha! If he were made of sterner stuff, that would be one thing. However, as a comic in all seriousness here (as Bobby Bittman used to say), the leader of the free world should have the strength of his convictions behind him, not be manipulated into doing someone else's bidding. No offense, but Donnie is out of his depth here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*Bernie Sanders' post-election Op-Ed:*

*Where the Democrats Go From Here*


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ha ha! If he were made of sterner stuff, that would be one thing. However, as a comic in all seriousness here (as Bobby Bittman used to say), the leader of the free world should have the strength of his convictions behind him, not be manipulated into doing someone else's bidding. No offense, but Donnie is out of his depth here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, as I said, if we have Macfury on our side that Trump will set a liberal and progressive agenda, unlike his campaign rhetoric, then we are in for the next four years. Don't rock the boat. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Bernie Sanders' post-election Op-Ed:*
> 
> *Where the Democrats Go From Here*


"When my presidential campaign came to an end, I pledged to my supporters that the political revolution would continue. And now, more than ever, that must happen. " Right on, Bernie. Keep the Faith. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Bernie Sanders' post-election Op-Ed:*
> 
> *Where the Democrats Go From Here*


Campaigning for a Wall Street insider was the wrong way to begin a jag to the left.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "When my presidential campaign came to an end, I pledged to my supporters that the political revolution would continue. And now, more than ever, that must happen. " Right on, Bernie. Keep the Faith. :clap::clap::clap:


Bernie is the real deal. He sure creates that impression anyway, more than any other candidate on either side of the great divide.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Bernie is the real deal. He sure creates that impression anyway, more than any other candidate on either side of the great divide.


Obama took Bernie to the woodshed and told him to live with the DNC's fixes. That Bernie campaigned for Hillary after that robs him of his independent, maverick appeal.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama took Bernie to the woodshed and told him to live with the DNC's fixes. That Bernie campaigned for Hillary after that robs him of his independent, maverick appeal.


Sad, but all too true, Macfury. Still, liberal progressivism shall soon be the order for the day, and we shall emerge into the light. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obama took Bernie to the woodshed and told him to live with the DNC's fixes. That Bernie campaigned for Hillary after that robs him of his independent, maverick appeal.



I don't think so. It makes him a team player. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. He'd be my preference, but Hillary already had the superdelegate thing sewed up, so there wasn't a lot he could do. He wasn't going to become President as an Independent in a fundamentally two-party system. He has far more wisdom than Trump and far more likeability than Hillary. He would have been a good choice, and he can authentically say he represents the working people. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Well, Bernie's crew did not support "the team" in large numbers.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't think so. It makes him a team player. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. He'd be my preference, but Hillary already had the superdelegate thing sewed up, so there wasn't a lot he could do. He wasn't going to become President as an Independent in a fundamentally two-party system. He has far more wisdom than Trump and far more likeability than Hillary. He would have been a good choice, and he can authentically say he represents the working people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Explain to me again exactly how socialism represents working people?



Freddie_Biff said:


> He would have been a good choice, and he can authentically say he represents the working people.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Explain to me again exactly how socialism represents working people?



Explain to me again how a billionaire who pays nothing in taxes represents anybody? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Explain to me again exactly how socialism represents working people?


One word--Venezuela. Watch and learn!!!


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Explain to me again how a billionaire who pays nothing in taxes represents anybody?


Uh, lemme see. Hmmmmm? When the people choose him as their new president?


----------



## SINC

Now here is a mom who gets it. Too bad she isn't president.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

Remember the violent protests by Republicans when Obama won his first term? His second? Neither do I. Look at the Libertarians lighting fires and beating people over the past three days. None, you say? 

What we're seeing appears to be a uniquely Democrat/Progressive response to an American election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Uh, lemme see. Hmmmmm? When the people choose him as their new president?



Of course! What was I thinking? They have so much in common. At least, the tax evading ones anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

> A Letter To the US from John Cleese
> 
> A Letter To the US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from John Cleese
> 
> 
> 
> To the citizens of the United States of America, in light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.
> 
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II resumes monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.
> 
> Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Theresa May, MP for the 97.8% of you who have, until now, been unaware there's a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America. Congress and the Senate are disbanded. A questionnaire circulated next year will determine whether any of you noticed.
> 
> To aid your transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
> 
> 1. Look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Check "aluminium" in the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you pronounce it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour'. Likewise you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary." Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed." There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you should not have chat shows.
> 
> 2. There is no such thing as "US English." We'll let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u'.
> 
> 3. You should learn to distinguish English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). Scottish dramas such as 'Taggart' will no longer be broadcast with subtitles.You must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon." If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire Floridashire, Louisianashire.
> 
> 4. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1.
> 
> 5. You should stop playing American "football." There's only one kind of football. What you call American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.1% of you aware there is a world outside your borders may have noticed no one else plays "American" football. You should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every two seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies) You should stop playing baseball. It's not reasonable to host event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders," which is baseball without fancy team stripe, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.
> 
> 6. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns, or anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because you are not sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you need a permit to carry a vegetable peeler.
> 
> 7. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday. It will be called "Indecisive Day."
> 
> 8. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left. At the same time, you will go metric without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
> 
> 9. Learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't French, they're Belgian though 97.8% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Potato chips are properly called "crisps." Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat.
> 
> 10. The cold tasteless stuff you call beer is actually lager. Only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer." Substances once known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine," except for the product of the American Budweiser company which will be called "Weak Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine." This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.
> 
> 11. The UK will harmonise petrol prices (or "Gasoline," as you will be permitted to keep calling it) for those of the former USA, adopting UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon, get used to it).
> 
> 12. Learn to resolve personal issues without guns, lawyers or therapists. That you need many lawyers and therapists shows you're not adult enough to be independent. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
> 
> 13. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
> 
> 14. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).
> 
> Thank you for your co-operation.
> 
> * John Cleese [Basil Fawlty, Fawlty Towers, Sir Lancelot of Camelot (Monty Python & The Quest for the Holy Grail), Torquay, Devon, England]


http://cogink.com/cleese/


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## Macfury

Is the joke supposed to be that the UK itself has been faltering whenever it adopts Obama-type policies?


----------



## FeXL

Excellent response! Concise, on track & straight to the point.

It also throws into sharp relief both what you know about tax law and what you know about the progressive _NYT_ tax situation, who recently received a 7 figure refund despite the fact that they made a profit. Didn't hear you Progs complaining about that.

Curious how those living under the umbrella of a tax payer supported union protected salary rarely have any idea what it's like to be an entrepreneur and that you can make money one year & pay taxes through the nose & lose money the next & pay none, idn't it.

Shortly after the 2008 recession there was a 3 year period where I didn't pay any income tax, do to a sharp drop in sales. I had a home, a rental property, the 'Burb, the Hawg, $40K in photographic equipment, $30K in hand & power tools, hell, a net value _well_ into 6 figures. According to your train of thought, I should still have been, somehow, paying tax? Jeezuz...

Read. Learn. Then open that hole under your nose.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Explain to me again how a billionaire who pays nothing in taxes represents anybody?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> One word--Venezuela. Watch and learn!!!


Exactly.

The only use socialists have for the working class is to ensure their progressive coffers are full of cash that they can buy dependence with.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Excellent response! Concise, on track & straight to the point.
> 
> 
> 
> It also throws into sharp relief both what you know about tax law and what you know about the progressive _NYT_ tax situation, who recently received a 7 figure refund despite the fact that they made a profit. Didn't hear you Progs complaining about that.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious how those living under the umbrella of a tax payer supported union protected salary rarely have any idea what it's like to be an entrepreneur and that you can make money one year & pay taxes through the nose & lose money the next & pay none, idn't it.
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly after the 2008 recession there was a 3 year period where I didn't pay any income tax, do to a sharp drop in sales. I had a home, a rental property, the 'Burb, the Hawg, $40K in photographic equipment, $30K in hand & power tools, hell, a net value _well_ into 6 figures. According to your train of thought, I should still have been, somehow, paying tax? Jeezuz...
> 
> 
> 
> Read. Learn. Then open that hole under your nose.



You I have sympathy for. At least I did before I opened that hole under my nose. Trump not so much. Either he's rich or he's bankrupt; he can't be both. The most current estimate I read is that he's worth about $3.7 billion. He used loopholes to not just avoid paying some taxes but it appears to avoid paying ANY taxes for the last 18 years or so—maybe longer. That's not heroic. It doesn't make him smart, it makes him a burden on the rest of society. I can understand tax relief for people who are jobless, homeless, or with huge student loans to pay back, but not a billionaire. I understand he's also planning to forfeit his $400,000 presidential salary, probably because it would mess up his tax free status. 


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## FeXL

FFS, fjn, it doesn't matter what he's worth.

If his expenses are greater than his income, he pays no income tax. And, if he is exploiting loopholes, shouldn't you be more pissed at the loopholes than the people who take advantage of them? No laws were broken!

Do I like the loopholes? No! But I can hardly take umbrage with the people who utilize them.

Why is this so difficult for you?

And why do you see him not accepting his presidential salary as a good thing? What is it with you Progs? He's damned if he does & damned if he doesn't. Do you honestly think that Bill's Wife would have been have as magnanimous?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump not so much. Either he's rich or he's bankrupt; he can't be both.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You I have sympathy for. At least I did before I opened that hole under my nose. Trump not so much. Either he's rich or he's bankrupt; he can't be both. The most current estimate I read is that he's worth about $3.7 billion. He used loopholes to not just avoid paying some taxes but it appears to avoid paying ANY taxes for the last 18 years or so—maybe longer. That's not heroic. It doesn't make him smart, it makes him a burden on the rest of society. I can understand tax relief for people who are jobless, homeless, or with huge student loans to pay back, but not a billionaire. I understand he's also planning to forfeit his


If true, he could only carry forward losses for 18 years if those losses eclipsed his taxable income. Perfectly normal, Teachers do this all the time, carrying forward income to use on sabbatical years and paying no tax on that income until then.


----------



## CubaMark

*Oh boy.

This is not a parody.*

www.greatagain.gov​


*From the section under "Serve America":*

_Thank you for your interest in learning about the process for joining the President Elect’s transition effort. Please find below the information regarding the application process and instructions.

President Elect Trump has promised to change Washington, DC and that will start with identifying and recruiting the finest men and women from across the country to serve in his Administration. Any individual who wishes to serve the Administration should utilize this online application in order to participate.

The President Elect will make appointments for a variety of positions throughout the federal government; some will require Senate confirmation, while others will not. 

Appointments that require Senate confirmation include the Cabinet, subcabinet, members of regulatory commissions, ambassadorships, judgeships, as well as members of numerous advisory boards.

VARIABLES TO CONSIDER

Service in the Trump-Pence Administration will be service to our Nation and thus a high honor, which demands both sacrifice and dedication. There are many factors to consider:

The time commitment is significant and the pace is fast

Appointments and jobs of the Trump-Pence Administration are demanding, and the application process is rigorous

President Elect Trump appreciates your interest and willingness to serve._​


----------



## CubaMark

Stephen Colbert... you can feel the disappointment. Some great lines here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJDD9WCxYQI


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## Macfury

Did I miss something?


----------



## Kami

Macfury said:


> If true, he could only carry forward losses for 18 years if those losses eclipsed his taxable income. Perfectly normal, Teachers do this all the time, carrying forward income to use on sabbatical years and paying no tax on that income until then.


Where is this happening for Canadian teachers?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FFS, fjn, it doesn't matter what he's worth.
> 
> 
> 
> If his expenses are greater than his income, he pays no income tax. And, if he is exploiting loopholes, shouldn't you be more pissed at the loopholes than the people who take advantage of them? No laws were broken!
> 
> 
> 
> Do I like the loopholes? No! But I can hardly take umbrage with the people who utilize them.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this so difficult for you?
> 
> 
> 
> And why do you see him not accepting his presidential salary as a good thing? What is it with you Progs? He's damned if he does & damned if he doesn't. Do you honestly think that Bill's Wife would have been have as magnanimous?



Well sympathy for you just disappeared now too. FFS, why is this so difficult for you to understand? They closed those loopholes a long time ago, which makes one wonder how he's still able to exploit them. Either he's a billionaire or he's so broke that he can't even afford to pay taxes. He can't be both. The nasty woman already drew his ire when she observed this simple truth about him. The taxes are the law for everyone else. Why not Trump? If you really think he's not allowed to release his tax returns, you really have been drinking your own bath water. He has plenty to hide. 

And for what it's worth, I think he SHOULD take the salary. Reread my response with an eye for comprehension this time. My question has to do with why he doesn't want to. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Oh boy.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a parody.*
> 
> 
> 
> www.greatagain.gov​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From the section under "Serve America":*
> 
> 
> 
> _Thank you for your interest in learning about the process for joining the President Elect’s transition effort. Please find below the information regarding the application process and instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> President Elect Trump has promised to change Washington, DC and that will start with identifying and recruiting the finest men and women from across the country to serve in his Administration. Any individual who wishes to serve the Administration should utilize this online application in order to participate.
> 
> 
> 
> The President Elect will make appointments for a variety of positions throughout the federal government; some will require Senate confirmation, while others will not.
> 
> 
> 
> Appointments that require Senate confirmation include the Cabinet, subcabinet, members of regulatory commissions, ambassadorships, judgeships, as well as members of numerous advisory boards.
> 
> 
> 
> VARIABLES TO CONSIDER
> 
> 
> 
> Service in the Trump-Pence Administration will be service to our Nation and thus a high honor, which demands both sacrifice and dedication. There are many factors to consider:
> 
> 
> 
> The time commitment is significant and the pace is fast
> 
> 
> 
> Appointments and jobs of the Trump-Pence Administration are demanding, and the application process is rigorous
> 
> 
> 
> President Elect Trump appreciates your interest and willingness to serve._​



Why is it called the Trump-Pence administration? That should tell you something. No one ever referred to the Obama-Biden administration, the Bush-Cheney administration, or the Clinton-Gore administration. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Kami said:


> Where is this happening for Canadian teachers?



No doubt. It's news to me. 


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## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



You know, I can even understand being reluctant to vote for Hillary. But I cannot understand why any sane person with any knowledge of government would vote for Trump. The mind boggles. 


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## Macfury

Kami said:


> Where is this happening for Canadian teachers?


Everywhere. Here's one instructional bulletin from Victoria:



> TEACHERS DEFERRED COMPENSATION LEAVE PLAN
> The Deferred Compensation Leave Plan (DSLP) provides teachers, with a continuing contract, an opportunity to set aside  a portion of their monthly income for the purpose of financing an extended leave of absence. Since the plan affects statutory deductions such as income tax, CPP and EI contributions, DSLP are governed by Revenue Canada and terms are specified within a Tax Ruling. The details of this Plan, as well as the application form, are found in the Addendum to the Local Collective Agreement.
> 
> *Main Points of the Plan*
> The plan permits a participant to defer a percentage of Salary (up to 1/3 per year) over a
> period up to four years so they can take a leave as a self-funded leave of absence. During the years of deferral the withheld funds are deposited to an account in the name of the applicant at Cumis Life Insurance Company. The funds are not directly accessible by the participant. Due to tax implications withdrawals of these investments for any reason must be processed through the Boards payroll system. The maximum amount of salary deferred each year is 33 1/3%


https://www.sd61.bc.ca/wp-content/u...formation-and-MOA-Teachers-September-2016.pdf
.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You know, I can even understand being reluctant to vote for Hillary. But I cannot understand why any sane person with any knowledge of government would vote for Trump. The mind boggles.


They're insane because they want government to promote_ their_ ideas instead of _yours_? Got it!


----------



## Macfury

This sort of hand wringing occurs every election. For example, if you map Trump's results over the 2012 election, he beats Obama.



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well sympathy for you just disappeared now too. FFS, why is this so difficult for you to understand? They closed those loopholes a long time ago, which makes one wonder how he's still able to exploit them. Either he's a billionaire or he's so broke that he can't even afford to pay taxes. He can't be both.


You're out of your depth here. Lets say you yourself invested in a major business and lost your shirt--so much money that it eclipsed your tax liability for this year, including the liability on your salary. You could carry forward the remainder of that loss to a future year. Nobody would say "Freddie Biff still has money in the bank, so he's not poor--we'll ignore his deductible losses and make him pay the tax anyway."


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is it called the Trump-Pence administration? That should tell you something. No one ever referred to the Obama-Biden administration, the Bush-Cheney administration, or the Clinton-Gore administration.


Yeah, officially they do:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Yeah, officially they do:
> 
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration


Indeed some people have no memories or were too young to know this fact.

During the Clinton-Gore administration, Al's wife Tipper Gore was so often in the spotlight she outshone Hillary.

Tipper Gore Reflects on PMRC 30 Years Later - Rolling Stone


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Everywhere. Here's one instructional bulletin from Victoria:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sd61.bc.ca/wp-content/u...formation-and-MOA-Teachers-September-2016.pdf
> 
> .



How is tax deferment the same thing as not paying any taxes at all for 20 years? 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They're insane because they want government to promote_ their_ ideas instead of _yours_? Got it!



That isn't what I said and you know it. I asked why any sane person would vote for someone who has no effing clue what he's doing to run the most powerful country in the world. 


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## Macfury

You're experiencing cognitive dissonance. Whatever he "doesn't know what he's doing" he's already doing it with vigor and efficiency.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That isn't what I said and you know it. I asked why any sane person would vote for someone who has no effing clue what he's doing to run the most powerful country in the world.


----------



## Macfury

Tax deferment and carrying forward of losses are all part of the same strategy allowed in Canada and the US to average out income and losses. I explained it to you already in a subsequent post.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How is tax deferment the same thing as not paying any taxes at all for 20 years?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Tax deferment and carrying forward of losses are all part of the same strategy allowed in Canada and the US to average out income and losses. I explained it to you already in a subsequent post.



Again, Trump did not defer his taxes. He refused to pay them at all. There is nothing to average out. For the past 18 or more years. There is no makeup plan. This is likely why he doesn't want to take a salary as President; it would mess up his tax avoidance plans.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're experiencing cognitive dissonance. Whatever he "doesn't know what he's doing" he's already doing it with vigor and efficiency.



Sure he is. By appointing white supremacists and self-admitted anti-Semites to powerful positions within his government. It seems you support that tactic. 


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## Macfury

If that were the case--and neither you nor I know what the case is--he would not be paying them because his loss was great enough to cover his subsequent income. It would be the same if you suffered a large business loss.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, Trump did not defer his taxes. He refused to pay them at all. There is nothing to average out. For the past 18 or more years. There is no makeup plan. This is likely why he doesn't want to take a salary as President; it would mess up his tax avoidance plans.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I guess Trump did not know this as he apparently does not know what he is doing. His son-in-law is going to be furious!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure he is. By appointing white supremacists and self-admitted anti-Semites to powerful positions within his government. It seems you support that tactic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

I could care less for your sympathy. All I want is for some of you tax law-challenged Progs to be a little more informed than what you are.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well sympathy for you just disappeared now too. FFS, why is this so difficult for you to understand?


There are tax loopholes big enough to drive a billionaire through. QED. If Trump actually had done something illegal, do you not think that Jug Ears would have been all over him like stink on a pig during the campaign?



Freddie_Biff said:


> They closed those loopholes a long time ago, which makes one wonder how he's still able to exploit them.


Yes, he can be both. Just because your net worth is x dollars has nothing to do with the amount of tax you pay. _This is your fundamental misunderstanding. & where the problem lies._



Freddie_Biff said:


> Either he's a billionaire or he's so broke that he can't even afford to pay taxes. He can't be both.


I'm going to repeat this:

If Trump actually had done something illegal, do you not think that Jug Ears would have been all over him like stink on a pig during the campaign?



Freddie_Biff said:


> The nasty woman already drew his ire when she observed this simple truth about him. The taxes are the law for everyone else. Why not Trump?


You are all over the map. At no time did I say anything about releasing tax returns.

On that topic, however, frankly, there is no law that forces one to do that, to my knowledge. It's completely voluntary. I don't think it's anybody's business.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you really think he's not allowed to release his tax returns, you really have been drinking your own bath water. He has plenty to hide.


Well, so far, all I've read from you is wild-eyed speculation. Do you have any evidence as to why he doesn't want the salary?

Next question: Do you realize what portion of $4.5 billion (Forbes estimate of Trump's net worth) $400,000 (the presidential salary) represents? Seeing as you are mathematically challenged, it's less than 1%.

Do you really think that an income of less than 1% of your net worth is going to throw your taxes in such disarray that it will trigger massive tax payments?

Get a grip.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And for what it's worth, I think he SHOULD take the salary. Reread my response with an eye for comprehension this time. My question has to do with why he doesn't want to.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Did I miss something?


I was wondering the same thing...


----------



## FeXL

Link?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, Trump did not defer his taxes. He refused to pay them at all. There is nothing to average out. For the past 18 or more years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If that were the case--and neither you nor I know what the case is--he would not be paying them because his loss was great enough to cover his subsequent income. It would be the same if you suffered a large business loss.



So that $915 million loss—which was actually a loss of other people's money—was enough to bankrupt him from 1996 to present. Like I said, he's either broke and can't pay his taxes, or he's a billionaire and he can. He can't be both. Which is it? 


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## Freddie_Biff

For the slower among us, and because I don't feel like multi-quoting, yes $400,000 is obviously a pittance compared with an alleged net worth in the billions. That's not the point. Taking the 400K would mean declaring an income, something the Tangerine Man seems loathe to do. Can't imagine why.


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## FeXL

The compassionate, intellectual, left...

"Rape Melania"

'Orange Is the New Black' Star Suggests Taking a Baseball Bat to Anyone Who's Not a Democrat

Audience Cringes When Comedian Tells Everyone to 'Get Abortions Now' After Trump Win

Blocks Of Anti-Trump Protest Buses Caught On Tape

BREAKING : Soros Hiring Anti-Trump “Protesters” Once Again For Sunday Palos Verdes Event

It Looks Like George Soros is Funding the Trump Protests Just Like He Funded The Ferguson Riots

We Can’t Promise Not To Hit You

Hamilton councillor calls for removal of Ontario judge who wore ‘Make America Great Again’ hat in court

THUGS! Man’s dog brutally attacked by unhinged rioters during #TrumpProtest

Matt Harrigan's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

This idiot just said he's going to purchase a sniper rifle & kill Trump? Welcome to the big, wide world of Secret Service surveillance, asshole...

'Kill the police!' Anti-Trump protesters chant death threats at cops in Indianapolis, and demonstrators are tear-gassed in Portland as tens of thousands take to the street nationwide for fourth night of violence

7 arrests made during anti-Trump rally in Indy

Scenes from the liberal meltdown



> The University of Michigan offered its traumatized students coloring books and Play-Doh to calm them. (Are its students in college or kindergarten?)


Crazier Together

Female anti-bullying ambassador, 23, arrested at Trump Tower protest for pushing man, 74, to the ground in fight over the new President-elect 

And, this:

Dear Lefties: If You Don’t ‘Feel Safe,’ You Can Always Buy Some Guns

When I first read the title, I LMAO. In retrospect, I don't want any of these idiots owning firearms. If the mindset exhibited by these violent protesters and by the Special Snowflakes requiring Play-Doh are any indication, they are not mature enough for gun ownership...


----------



## FeXL

Un. Hinged...



Freddie_Biff said:


> For the slower among us, and because I don't feel like multi-quoting, yes $400,000 is obviously a pittance compared with an alleged net worth in the billions. That's not the point. Taking the 400K would mean declaring an income, something the Tangerine Man seems loathe to do. Can't imagine why.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Un. Hinged...












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeXL

Do you know what I love about my browser settings? I see nothing until I actually click on it. And, frankly, I ain't interested enough to waste the energy...

Seeing as you are having trouble with all this, I suggest you seek out your nearest Sherwood Park high school & read the part of the CALM curriculum that deals with taxes:



> R1. identify personal resources, and explain how they could be of value to self and others
> [...]
> * examine the fundamentals of getting and using money—basic information on getting an income, deductions, paying taxes, using money for various expenses
> [...]


One of our children took it via correspondence over the summer between grade 9 & 10. Aced it...

You have a nice day, there, Mr. Tax Law Man. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> http://uploads.tapatalk.bull****.blah.blah.blah.all.day.long.png


----------



## FeXL

Sure. _Now_ they're concerned.

Major Dem donors mtg on Tues to plan ways to "detect evidence of ballot or voter reg. database hacking."

Curious, idn't it...


----------



## FeXL

Too little, too late.

New York Times publisher vows to 'rededicate' paper to reporting honestly



> The publisher of The New York Times penned a letter to readers Friday promising that the paper would “reflect” on its coverage of this year’s election while rededicating itself to reporting on “America and the world” honestly.


Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press



> It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that, with a few exceptions, we were all tacitly or explicitly #WithHer, which has led to a certain anguish in the face of Donald Trump’s victory. More than that and more importantly, we also missed the story, after having spent months mocking the people who had a better sense of what was going on.
> 
> ...
> 
> The audience for our glib analysis and contempt for much of the electorate, it turned out, was rather limited. This was particularly true when it came to voters, the ones who turned out by the millions to deliver not only a rebuke to the political system but also the people who cover it. Trump knew what he was doing when he invited his crowds to jeer and hiss the reporters covering him. They hate us, and have for some time.


You've all made your bed. Now lie in it...

Related:

Conrad Black: The free press failed and the Clintons, Bushes and Obamas are finally finished



> The media have been exposed in their biases, their overwhelming hostility to Donald Trump, as not just irrelevant, but the object of hatred as intense as that which overwhelmed the political elites who failed the nation and imperilled the alliance America founded and led for many decades.
> 
> The public’s loathing and distrust of the media is richly deserved and indicative of one of Western society’s greatest failings: *the free press has failed.*


M'bold.

Amen...


----------



## SINC

And more:

Breaking! The New York Times Just Issued an Apology


----------



## Kami

Macfury said:


> Everywhere. Here's one instructional bulletin from Victoria:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sd61.bc.ca/wp-content/u...formation-and-MOA-Teachers-September-2016.pdf
> .


You misunderstood how this works. This is a self financed plan where teachers are getting paid their full salary and a certain percentage is held in trust until the sabbatical or leave year. Taxes have to be paid in full on the gross salary each of the years that the plan is in place. I'm not sure where you are seeing a tax benefit or tax deferral in this this arrangement. Do you have a link to a CRA document that has the details of your understanding of how this works?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> blah blah blah bull****e whine whine more bull****e



You still have failed to explain how one can be a billionaire and yet have zero taxes due to zero income at the same time, not even capital gains tax, for 18 years or more in a row. If you have that much debt, you're not a billionaire. If you have an income, as the President of the United States does, then you pay taxes. If you are running for POTUS, you release your tax returns, unless you have something you don't want people to see. Thick as a brick, seriously. Perhaps you should take that CALM course so you could become as enlightened as your kids. 



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## Macfury

Kami said:


> You misunderstood how this works. This is a self financed plan where teachers are getting paid their full salary and a certain percentage is held in trust until the sabbatical or leave year. Taxes have to be paid in full on the gross salary each of the years that the plan is in place. I'm not sure where you are seeing a tax benefit or tax deferral in this this arrangement. Do you have a link to a CRA document that has the details of your understanding of how this works?



With all due respect Kami, that would only happen if the plan wasn't set up properly. You can find it under Tax Regulation 6801, but the _Globe_ financial planner does a good job of explaining the tax benefits:

Tired of work? Then plan a sabbatical - The Globe and Mail



> A DSLP is simply a formal plan set up by your employer for employees. The plan must be in writing. The plan allows you to set aside a portion of your pay each year for a certain period of time and to then take a leave of absence. The money you set aside under the plan is used to pay you during your time off.* If the DSLP is set up properly, you won’t face tax on the amounts you set aside until you make withdrawals later during your leave.*
> 
> There are some specifics to be aware of, which can be found in Income Tax Regulation 6801 in our tax law (for those who care). First, for the DSLP to work, the main purpose of the plan must be to allow you to fund a leave of absence by deferring some of your salary, and not to provide money to you after retirement.
> 
> Further, the plan should not allow you to withdraw from the plan early (to access your deferred salary) except in special circumstances such as financial hardship. The plan can allow you to defer a specified percentage of your salary each year, up to a maximum of one third of your pay annually. As for your leave of absence, it must be for a period of at least six months (three months if your leave is to allow you to attend a designated educational institution full-time), and your leave of absence must begin no later than six years after the date on which you begin to set aside part of your pay in the DSLP.
> 
> What about payments out of the plan? During your leave, no compensation other than your deferred salary out of the DSLP can be paid to you by your employer, with the exception of reasonable fringe benefits. Any investment income that’s earned on the amounts in the plan over the years must be paid to you annually, and are taxable to you. And the deferral can’t go on forever. The amounts in the plan must be paid to you no later than Dec. 31 of the year following the year in which your leave of absence begins. Make sense?
> 
> After your leave of absence, you’ll have to return to work for a period at least as long as the leave. If you don’t, the CRA will turn around and tax you on that deferred salary as though you should have been taxed in each of the prior years when you were setting aside those salary dollars.


----------



## Macfury

How do you know that he paid no taxes for 18 years in a row? Link...?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You still have failed to explain how one can be a billionaire and yet have zero taxes due to zero income at the same time, not even capital gains tax, for 18 years or more in a row. If you have that much debt, you're not a billionaire. If you have an income, as the President of the United States does, then you pay taxes. If you are running for POTUS, you release your tax returns, unless you have something you don't want people to see. Thick as a brick, seriously. Perhaps you should take that CALM course so you could become as enlightened as your kids.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You still have failed to explain how one can be a billionaire and yet have zero taxes due to zero income at the same time, not even capital gains tax, for 18 years or more in a row. If you have that much debt, you're not a billionaire. If you have an income, as the President of the United States does, then you pay taxes. If you are running for POTUS, you release your tax returns, unless you have something you don't want people to see. Thick as a brick, seriously. Perhaps you should take that CALM course so you could become as enlightened as your kids.


Ahem!

Some billionaires have more than enough money in cash and do not place their money in any interest bearing accounts. They can have billions not making a dime in gains and therefore use it as a 'cost of living stream' without paying a dime in taxes. Pretty simple stuff if you have that kind of a cash stash. And don't for a minute think that banks would turn down such a client as they gain use of the funds. So yes, one can easily be a billionaire and pay no taxes if they set themselves up that way. They can then earn tax refunds on business investments by showing losses without even using a loophole. Add to that a team of accountants to keep it all glued together, utilize the legal 'loopholes' available and you have what you claim is impossible working quite well, thank you.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Ahem!
> 
> Some billionaires have more than enough money in cash and do not place their money in any interest bearing accounts. They can have billions not making a dime in gains and therefore use it as a 'cost of living stream' without paying a dime in taxes. Pretty simple stuff if you have that kind of a cash stash. And don't for a minute think that banks would turn down such a client as they gain use of the funds. So yes, one can easily be a billionaire and pay no taxes if they set themselves up that way. They can then earn tax refunds on business investments by showing losses without even using a loophole. Add to that a team of accountants to keep it all glued together, utilize the legal 'loopholes' available and you have what you claim is impossible working quite well, thank you.


However, without Trump's tax returns this is all speculation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How do you know that he paid no taxes for 18 years in a row? Link...?



Well we know that based on his $915 million "loss," that he was not required to pay taxes for 18 years, before the Feds closed that loophole, and that in his last publicly available financial statement, 1981 I believe, his net income was zero, what do you think the odds are? Of course, as long as he doesn't reveal his tax returns, and since the election is now over and there's no pressure on him to do so, I guess we'll never know now will we? I suspect it has something to do with why he doesn't want to accept a Presidential salary though. Got a better explanation? 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> However, without Trump's tax returns this is all speculation.



Exactly my point.


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Ahem!
> 
> 
> 
> Some billionaires have more than enough money in cash and do not place their money in any interest bearing accounts. They can have billions not making a dime in gains and therefore use it as a 'cost of living stream' without paying a dime in taxes. Pretty simple stuff if you have that kind of a cash stash. And don't for a minute think that banks would turn down such a client as they gain use of the funds. So yes, one can easily be a billionaire and pay no taxes if they set themselves up that way. They can then earn tax refunds on business investments by showing losses without even using a loophole. Add to that a team of accountants to keep it all glued together, utilize the legal 'loopholes' available and you have what you claim is impossible working quite well, thank you.



Sure, it's possible, Don, but how long would he keep up the appearance of having no actual income? Is 18 years realistic, especially his "bankruptcy" itself is suspect? 


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## FeXL

You still have failed to provide any evidence supporting your wild-assed conjecture. Period.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You still have failed to explain how one can be a billionaire and yet have zero taxes due to zero income at the same time, not even capital gains tax, for 18 years or more in a row.


FFS... How many millions in a billion? Let me help you: 1000. You can have a net worth of $4.5 billion, have a couple thousand millions in debt and still be a billionaire. 

What about this confuses you? The scale? Fine. Lop off 6 zeroes & look at it again.

All you're doing is arguing semantics. Billionaire or busted: same rules apply. *It's not your net worth that determines the taxes you pay.*



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you have that much debt, you're not a billionaire.


Show me the law. Just because someone doesn't put everything on display does not mean they're hiding something. Sometimes it's just not anybody else's business.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you are running for POTUS, you release your tax returns, unless you have something you don't want people to see.


Who d'you s'pose helped them with their homework? Sure as hell weren't no mathematically tax-law challenged Prog teacher from Sherwood Park. 

It was a dumb biker...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you should take that CALM course so you could become as enlightened as your kids.


----------



## FeXL

If you thought Progressive heads exploded on election night... 

Donald Trump Could Put Sarah Palin In Charge Of Oil, Gas, Natural Resources After 'Drill, Baby, Drill' Chant



> Now that Donald Trump is officially on his way to being the next president of the United States, he must decide how to fill his cabinet. According to reports, former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is a top contender for secretary of the interior.
> 
> Trump mentioned he would like to appoint Palin to a position within his administration when she endorsed him in January 2016.


----------



## Macfury

There are no "odds" for having a net zero income. You have it or you don't. That "loophole" is not closed. You can now carry forward for 20 years instead of 18.

And as has been pointed out to you, a presidential salary would be almost irrelevant to his tax situation.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well we know that based on his $915 million "loss," that he was not required to pay taxes for 18 years, before the Feds closed that loophole, and that in his last publicly available financial statement, 1981 I believe, his net income was zero, what do you think the odds are? Of course, as long as he doesn't reveal his tax returns, and since the election is now over and there's no pressure on him to do so, I guess we'll never know now will we? I suspect it has something to do with why he doesn't want to accept a Presidential salary though. Got a better explanation?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL: not sure why you have such a hard-on for Sherwood Park, exactly, but you sure seem fixated on it. I have relatives in S. Alberta (whereverthefukthatis) and they certainly don't spew the same venom you do. Hope you find your inner peace someday. 


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## SINC

A very interesting video that shows another side of Donald Trump.

Watch as Donald Trump Explains The Syrian Conflict and Working with Russia And Stuns American TV Hosts – Anonymous


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## FeXL

Good response.

I possess great inner peace. Much of it derives from proving Progs on these boards wrong on a regular basis. Despite their protests to the contrary...



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL: _red herring, obfuscation, denial, avoidance, etc, etc, etc..._


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Good response.
> 
> I possess great inner peace. Much of it derives from proving Progs on these boards wrong on a regular basis. Despite their protests to the contrary...


I love it myself. No anxiety at all!


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## FeXL

And, for those of you who want the Electoral College disbanded, and/or don't understand the purpose thereof...

"i am hillary clinton, and i approve of this rioting, hell, i fomented it" .... understand this, the riots are just a continuation of the election campaign ....

The penultimate paragraph (most of the preceding is not germaine):



> hillary appears to have received the majority of popular votes, from the states of new york and california. *letting those two states control the election because of their huge populations is precisely what the electoral college was designed to prevent: it is just another one of the institutions in u.s. politics from preventing wealth, power and population from dominating totally.*


M'bold.

That'll Be Enough

(Interesting bit about the 17 Amendment I was unaware of)



> There's a very good reason our founding fathers designed a _Constitutional Republic_ instead of a _Democracy_. They understand the problem with democracy: It doesn't work. Democracy always ends up leading to riots and civil war, because _exactly what the blue folks are doing now escalates until everyone starts shooting everyone._
> 
> A Constitutional Republic avoids this outcome because _*even a very large majority cannot infringe the rights of everyone else -- even when the majority lives in big, concentrated places like cities.*_
> 
> That was the magic sauce of the original design in our legislature and Presidency. It's why we have an Electoral College -- to provide a bit of "overweighting" to those places that are utterly crucial to the cohesiveness _and survival_ of the nation as a functional republic -- that is, a bit more balance against *tyranny of the majority of 50%+1.*


All emphasis from the link.

Sunday Morning Book Thread 11-13-2016: There's Got To Be A Morning After 



> At the time of the American Revolution, when the Founders were hashing out the features of the federal goverment they thought would be the best (and by 'best', I mean 'most just' not 'most efficient'), one of the issues that they needed to resolve was the competition between large states vs. small states. The Founders were concerned that the large states would simply overwhelm the small states in every election, so they wanted to balance that out a bit, and give the small states a bit of leverage so that they wouldn't be shut out entirely.
> 
> Thus the Electoral College.
> 
> I think the Electoral College is a work of genius. It makes presidential elections more difficult to win, and forces the candidates to earn the support of a broad coalition of states, not just a few populous ones. Without the EC, the president would be elected by a mere plebiscite and nowadays, that means that all a candidate has to do is to carry in a few blue states, 30-35 counties tops, and he can pretty much ignore the rest of the country. Or, back then, all they had to do was carry 2-3 big states, and that would be that.


And then there is the Loser's perspective...

Michael Dukakis calls for end to Electoral College



> A former Democratic presidential nominee is calling for the Electoral College to be abolished after Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but still lost to Donald Trump.
> 
> Michael Dukakis, who lost to George H.W. Bush in 1988, told Politico that the Electoral College "should have been abolished 150 years ago."


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I love it myself. No anxiety at all!


Very cathartic, wouldn't you agree?


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## Macfury

FeXL said:


> And, for those of you who want the Electoral College disbanded, and/or don't understand the purpose thereof...


Very succinctly explained. Hope it sinks in.


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## SINC

About sums things up.


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Good response.
> 
> 
> 
> I possess great inner peace. Much of it derives from proving Progs on these boards wrong on a regular basis. Despite their protests to the contrary...


*yawn* Good for you FeXL. 


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## Macfury

Many people are unaware that a state won't count its absentee ballots unless there are enough of them to change the outcome. Absentee ballots typically break 2/3 for Republicans. Had these been counted, even the claim that Hillary "won the popular vote" is unlikely to be true.


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## Rps

I think there is a paradigm that the U.S. Presidential election is a "national" election where, in fact, it is more of a State election. The Electorial College was the brain child to prevent the populous states from taking control..... the issue with the EC is that if it were based on a proportional allocation it would be much fairer, and possibly more democratic. My understanding of the College is that it is based on one vote per elected representative ( the House and Senate +3 from D.C. ) generally to carry a state's EC votes you must win the State...but in away this is still based on population as the more population the more districts in a given state..... I think as long as the party you vote for doesn't win people will be complaining. Bottom line, if you don't like the result don't bitch, get out and help make a chance next time.... the system is the system for all parties involved.


----------



## wonderings

Rps said:


> Bottom line, if you don't like the result don't bitch, get out and help make a chance next time.... the system is the system for all parties involved.


+100

It is frustrating when people whine after every election when whoever they voted for did not win, and even more so when all this talk of leaving, or petitions to change the democratic election that was held. I voted Conservative last few elections, and while I did not vote for Trudeau I support our Prime Minister and wish him nothing but the best and hope he will do right by our country.


----------



## Macfury

Ha!

More than half of arrested anti-Trump protesters didn't vote in Oregon | KGW.com



> PORTLAND, Ore. — More than 70 percent of the 112 anti-Trump protesters arrested in Portland didn’t vote in Oregon, according to state election records. The other approximately 30 percent did cast a ballot in Oregon or in another state.


----------



## CubaMark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IvfA3bmVfA


----------



## Macfury

David Suzuki warning should have been placed on this video. I watched about one second--the time it took to click the "off" button.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I think there is a paradigm that the U.S. Presidential election is a "national" election where, in fact, it is more of a State election. The Electorial College was the brain child to prevent the populous states from taking control..... the issue with the EC is that if it were based on a proportional allocation it would be much fairer, and possibly more democratic. My understanding of the College is that it is based on one vote per elected representative ( the House and Senate +3 from D.C. ) generally to carry a state's EC votes you must win the State...but in away this is still based on population as the more population the more districts in a given state..... I think as long as the party you vote for doesn't win people will be complaining. Bottom line, if you don't like the result don't bitch, get out and help make a chance next time.... the system is the system for all parties involved.



https://youtu.be/DGlbJQP2tIQ


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> David Suzuki warning should have been placed on this video. I watched about one second--the time it took to click the "off" button.



Good to see you're still as open-minded as ever. 


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## Dr.G.

Today Is the Anniversary of Ruby Bridges' Historic First Day of School

I was 12 years old when I watched the CBS news report on this courageous little girl. I could freely walk to and from my elementary school in Queens, NYC by her age. Luckily, my mother, who was a progressive liberal Democrat, explained to me the significance of this act of courage. I have not forgotten that lesson to this day. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

Just joking. I watched it and it was pure tripe.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good to see you're still as open-minded as ever.


----------



## SINC

Ah yes, the gracious and fit to be president Hillary. 

Hillary Clinton Screaming Obscenities and Throwing Objects in Election Night Meltdown - Breitbart


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Ah yes, the gracious and fit to be president Hillary.
> 
> Hillary Clinton Screaming Obscenities and Throwing Objects in Election Night Meltdown - Breitbart


While this is probably true, would you really say that Breitbart is unbiased.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Ah yes, the gracious and fit to be president Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton Screaming Obscenities and Throwing Objects in Election Night Meltdown - Breitbart




Breitbart. Yup. 'Nuff said. 


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## Macfury

Rps said:


> While this is probably true, would you really say that Breitbart is unbiased.


The story has been told by several different outlets now.


----------



## HowEver

Breitbart is the worst possible source, unless you're a fan of anti-Semitism and other virulent crap.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

HowEver said:


> Breitbart is the worst possible source, unless you're a fan of anti-Semitism and other virulent crap.



It is also the source of Trump's new chief of staff, big surprise. 


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## ehMax

Macfury said:


> The story has been told by several different outlets now.


Yeah.. all the fine reputable media sources like wakeupsheep.com, truthseekersrus.com, stupidlibtards.com, inforwars.com and the like. 

I hate Hillary, but what a stupid story. "Sources tell us...". Somehow, she managed to call Trump who said she was very kind and gracious, in the midst of her meltdown. 

Rag psueduo-journalism. 

In the bigger picture, it really is sad that there is very little verifiable, quality news journalism. Main-stream sucks, and then you have both super left and super right joe-plumbers turned journo's.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> Yeah.. all the fine reputable media sources like wakeupsheep.com, truthseekersrus.com, stupidlibtards.com, inforwars.com and the like.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate Hillary, but what a stupid story. "Sources tell us...". Somehow, she managed to call Trump who said she was very kind and gracious, in the midst of her meltdown.
> 
> 
> 
> Rag psueduo-journalism.
> 
> 
> 
> In the bigger picture, it really is sad that there is very little verifiable, quality news journalism. Main-stream sucks, and then you have both super left and super right joe-plumbers turned journo's.



And ad hominem attacks again and again. Good observation, Mr. Mayor. 


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## Macfury

Why not go directly to the origins of the story? It was former _Newsweek _editor Ed Klein and talk show host Todd Kincannon who claimed this happened. Only Trump knows how Hillary sounded when she called him. We do know that she refused to thank her supporters that night, instead sending John Podesta to tell them to "go home." That's highly unusual.

I certainly didn't hear you or anyone else here complain about the quality of the source when Trump was accused of raping an underage girl by the Clinton campaign. Nope-we need to lash out only when someone might be wrong about Hillary crying on election night.

It's interesting that only "crazyright.com"-type sites seemed to know a Trump victory was coming. The reputable ones had her winning a landslide past 9 pm on November 8.



ehMax said:


> Yeah.. all the fine reputable media sources like wakeupsheep.com, truthseekersrus.com, stupidlibtards.com, inforwars.com and the like.
> 
> I hate Hillary, but what a stupid story. "Sources tell us...". Somehow, she managed to call Trump who said she was very kind and gracious, in the midst of her meltdown.
> 
> Rag psueduo-journalism.
> 
> In the bigger picture, it really is sad that there is very little verifiable, quality news journalism. Main-stream sucks, and then you have both super left and super right joe-plumbers turned journo's.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And ad hominem attacks again and again. Good observation, Mr. Mayor.


EH Max is using an _ad hominem_ attack--is that what you're saying?


----------



## Dr.G.

HowEver said:


> Breitbart is the worst possible source, unless you're a fan of anti-Semitism and other virulent crap.


Sadly, all too true. Paix, mon amie.

How I wish we would tone down the rhetoric here in this thread and just go back to open discussions about American politics without all the digs and jabs. There's enough anger out there in the real world without adding to it here in ehMacLand.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> EH Max is using an _ad hominem_ attack--is that what you're saying?



Not even remotely. Read again with an eye to comprehension this time.


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## Macfury

I think you misunderstood what _ad hominem _means. It was EhMax who was attacking the _sources _of those reports, _not their information_.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not even remotely. Read again with an eye to comprehension this time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Not to mention the sites were all fictitious.


----------



## FeXL

You clowns are hilarious. If the source is that disreputable, a couple of sentences worth of empirical evidence should do to debunk the "fable". Hell, a couple of words!

Yet, rather than actually conduct some research of your own, you write off the source as out of hand with nothing but your own _ad hom_ rhetoric.

Great debating skills on display here. And you wonder not only why the left has zero credibility but how Trump won the election. Here's a little tip: have a look in the mirror...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Breitbart. Yup. 'Nuff said.





HowEver said:


> Breitbart is the worst possible source, unless you're a fan of anti-Semitism and other virulent crap.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> You clowns are hilarious. If the source is that disreputable, a couple of sentences worth of empirical evidence should do to debunk the "fable". Hell, a couple of words!
> 
> Yet, rather than actually conduct some research of your own, you write off the source as out of hand with nothing but your own _ad hom_ rhetoric.
> 
> Great debating skills on display here. And you wonder not only why the left has zero credibility but how Trump won the election. Here's a little tip: have a look in the mirror...


So here are a few words....it's the worst possible source.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think you misunderstood what _ad hominem _means. It was EhMax who was attacking the _sources _of those reports, _not their information_.



Actually, it looks more like he was criticizing your own penchant for using bull**** sources to back up your outlandish claims in what constitutes "discourse" in today's world. I pointed out that as hominem attacks are also a part of the problem. Again, read with an eye to comprehension. 


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## Macfury

Simply wrong. Breitbart, for example, broke many stories that only later received mainstream coverage. With the implosion of trust in mainstream media, others are filling the vacuum.



Rps said:


> So here are a few words....it's the worst possible source.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> So here are a few words....it's the worst possible source.



Well, Rps, I'm afraid those words won't do. They don't agree with FeXL's preconceived notion is what is correct. 











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## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Simply wrong. Breitbart, for example, broke many stories that only later received mainstream coverage. With the implosion of trust in mainstream media, others are filling the vacuum.


They were one of very few sources that had ANY credibility during the election. If there is one thing this election proved, it's that Breitbart knew what they were talking about, and the MSM absolutely did not.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Simply wrong. Breitbart, for example, broke many stories that only later received mainstream coverage. With the implosion of trust in mainstream media, others are filling the vacuum.


That may have been the case under the prior editor but not since Trump's strategic advisor took over and moved the site to more, shall we say, less than liberal views.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> That may have been the case under the prior editor but not since Trump's strategic advisor took over and moved the site to more, shall we say, less than liberal views.


Why would having liberal views make the news source more accurate?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Why would having liberal views make the news source more accurate?


I was trying to be diplomatic in describing their editorial content and slant.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I was trying to be diplomatic in describing their editorial content and slant.



Some people apparently don't really want the news to be balanced and less biased. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people apparently don't really want the news to be balanced and less biased.


Funny that the New York Times--and other bastions of the liberal mainstream press--have just uttered a massive mea culpa apologizing for their biased news coverage. It may have looked balanced to you because you live in a prog bubble.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Funny that the New York Times--and other bastions of the liberal mainstream press--have just uttered a massive mea culpa apologizing for their biased news coverage. It may have looked balanced to you because you live in a prog bubble.



And you live in an alt-right sludge pit, but I don't hold it against you personally. 


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## Macfury

A stranger on your own continent, fjn! Wait until the Notley regime collapses!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Great heavens, people elected him to repudiate Obama's legacy!. I want him to not only blast it clean with a laser-like precision, I want Trump to salt the Earth afterward!!


Late to the discussion as per usual these days.

Good god man you like to speak in hyperbolic terms. The sense of disdain and hatred for those that disagree with you in a democratic society is palpable. I know you believe that you are correct in your opinion 100% of the time, but there are a multitude of others who disagree with you and have facts to back up their position which you constantly deflect or demean.

No wonder you like Trump, it seems you are both cut from the same cloth.


----------



## Macfury

I have agreed with Obama policies less than 5 per cent of the time. I'm not going to pretend that I want any of it to survive! However, I despise the policies, not the people who believe in them. You may be more conciliatory about those legislative achievements if that suits your personality. To each their own.

Regarding Trump, at one point I had hoped for a better outsider candidate, but so far as President Elect, he is exceeding my expectations.

(I haven't noticed many arguments backed up with facts lately, but I will keep a look out for them!)



screature said:


> Late to the discussion as per usual these days.
> 
> Good god man you like to speak in hyperbolic terms. The sense of disdain and hatred for those that disagree with you in a democratic society is palpable. I know you believe that you are correct in your opinion 100% of the time, but there are a multitude of others who disagree with you and have facts to back up their position which you constantly deflect or demean.
> 
> No wonder you like Trump, it seems you are both cut from the same cloth.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Controlling immigration from terrorist countries, reducing tax rates while eliminating loopholes, enforcing border regulations to a greater degree, defunding sanctuary cities, building a wall (or fence) across the rest of the border, appointing constitutionalist supreme court judges, renegotiating NAFTA, approving the Keystone XL pipeline, rolling back regulations applying to CO2, intensifying clean coal technology application, reforming considerable portions of Obamacare. Improving relations with Russia.
> 
> I expect him to take a jab at term limits.


Nice list. In order here is my response:

1. Controlling immigration from terrorist countries: FACT. There have been more Americans killed by home grown terrorist than all foreign terrorists combined.

2. Reducing tax rates while eliminating loopholes: Sounds good in imagination but where and what is his plan? It seems he has personally benefited from loopholes so that he has not paid taxes in over a decade. Why should anyone believe him?

3. Enforcing border regulations to a greater degree: I don't even know what that means or what it would look like. Do you? I picture 24 hours wait for even a car coming from Canada or Mexico. Yeah, that will be great for business and the economy of North America.

4. De-funding sanctuary cities: What the f**k are they, where do they exist, how much money is supposedly being spent on them? This point IMO clearly needs further definition on your part. 

5. Building a wall (or fence) across the rest of the border: F**k man you are talking about Berlin which even Ronald Regan wanted to come down. Complete and utter nonsense.

6. Appointing constitutionalist supreme court judges: I think that any judge that gets appointed to the Supreme Court has a pretty good understanding of the Constitution.

7. Renegotiating NAFTA: Ha that is a laugh... : He only wants to do it to benefit the US! That that you think that it would in any way benefit Canada just displays your partisanship. Even Rona Ambrose came out today criticizing JT for his willingness to open up NAFTA before it was officially requested by the US.

8. Approving the Keystone XL pipeline: That would be a good thing for Canada.

9. Rolling back regulations applying to CO2: It is complicated and should not just be done willy nilly. Such decisions should be science based and not based on pure political policy just to get votes.

10. Intensifying clean coal technology application: I don't think it really exists. Coal is dirty pure and simple. The money would be better spent on research to bring down the cost of clean energy.

11. Reforming considerable portions of Obamacare: At least there is Obamacare and I am sure it could be improved just as our public healthcare system could and should be.

12. Improving relations with Russia: Sure after Putin is gone, in the mean time stand tall against the corrupt oligarch and former KGB agent who wants to "Make Russia Great Again"!


----------



## Macfury

Interesting points, screature.



> 1. Controlling immigration from terrorist countries: FACT. There have been more Americans killed by home grown terrorist than all foreign terrorists combined.


Agreed. But the immigration controls are still necessary.



> 2. Reducing tax rates while eliminating loopholes: Sounds good in imagination but where and what is his plan? It seems he has personally benefited from loopholes so that he has not paid taxes in over a decade. Why should anyone believe him?


The carried interest deduction would be eliminated, for one. Taking advantage of carrying losses forward is not a loophole--it's simply part of tax law (that I agree with). I'm not sure whether or not Trump paid federal taxes for 10 years. I don't expect people to believe him, but I do.



> 3. Enforcing border regulations to a greater degree: I don't even know what that means or what it would look like. Do you? I picture 24 hours wait for even a car coming from Canada or Mexico. Yeah, that will be great for business and the economy of North America.


No more catch-and-release--instead, catch-and-return. Deportation of illegal aliens with criminal records. This is a good start!



> 4. De-funding sanctuary cities: What the f**k are they, where do they exist, how much money is supposedly being spent on them? This point IMO clearly needs further definition on your part.


Chicago, NYC, Tucson, Denver, Miami and many others have official policies that they will not comply with federal immigration regulations regarding the deportation of illegal aliens. The federal government can defund those cities for other programs until they comply.



> 5. Building a wall (or fence) across the rest of the border: F**k man you are talking about Berlin which even Ronald Regan wanted to come down. Complete and utter nonsense.


Reagan hated the Berlin Wall because it was meant to keep people IN--not OUT!



> 6. Appointing constitutionalist supreme court judges: I think that any judge that gets appointed to the Supreme Court has a pretty good understanding of the Constitution.


Some of the judges believe that International Law should inform their decisions. A Constitutionalist relies only on the US Constitution to interpret cases. 



> 7. Renegotiating NAFTA: Ha that is a laugh... :lmao: He only wants to do it to benefit the US! That that you think that it would in any way benefit Canada just displays your rabid partisanship! Even Rona Ambrose came out today criticizing JT for his willingness to open up NAFTA before it was officially requested by the US.


I was only asked which promises he would keep, not which ones I approved of. I'm not sure it would benefit Canada.



> 8. Approving the Keystone XL pipeline: That would be a good thing for Canada.


Yep.



> 9. Rolling back regulations applying to CO2: It is complicated and should not just be done willy nilly. Such decisions should be science based and not based on pure political policy just to get votes.


The most generous estimates of the effect of completely eliminating all CO2 production in the US immediately would delay a significant predicted rise in temperature by a few days at best. I don't believe the science is sound anyway, but taking them at their word, it's a poor result for billions of dollars.



> 10. Intensifying clean coal technology application: I don't think it really exists. Coal is dirty pure and simple. The money would be better spent on research to bring down the cost of clean energy.


A good article on clean coal:

https://www.wired.com/2014/03/clean-coal/

Wind and solar power are too expensive because fossil fuels are so cheap. I don't believe one could make wind power cheap enough to be effective unless fossil fuel costs increased. These alternate technologies will one day take their places competitively as fossil fuel prices increase.



> 11. Reforming considerable portions of Obamacare: At least there is Obamacare and I am sure it could be improved just as our public healthcare system could and should be.


Forcing people to buy non-competitive insurance policies is possibly the worst health care plan anybody could have thought of. The same results could have been achieved with a simple expansion of Medicare/Medicaid.



> 12. Improving relations with Russia: Sure after Putin is gone, in the mean time stand tall against the corrupt oligarch and former KGB agent who wants to "Make Russia Great Again"!


I suspect The US and Russia will be teaming up to fight ISIS in the near future, with Putin still at the helm. Only time will tell, though.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Funny that the New York Times--and other bastions of the liberal mainstream press--have just uttered a massive mea culpa apologizing for their biased news coverage. It may have looked balanced to you because you live in a prog bubble.


While you are at it, the Washington Post was extremely biased against Trump, would love to live long enough to see their apology.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> While you are at it, the Washington Post was extremely biased against Trump, would love to live long enough to see their apology.


WaPo was bought by Amazon's Jeff Bezos with the express purpose of defeating Trump. No apology likely!



> A top American daily has set up a team of 20 reporters to investigate and look into every aspect of the life of Donald Trump since he emerged as the presumptive presidential nominee of the Republican party.


Washington Post fields 20 reporters to look into Trump's life | Business Standard News


----------



## FeXL

Another unsubstantiated opinion. Just like belly buttons: everybody has one.

Present some evidence that Breitbart is "the worst possible source". Where? How? Why? How much?

Instead of parroting the Progressive party line, how about a few empirical examples? Where's the beef?



Rps said:


> So here are a few words....it's the worst possible source.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I like that one!


----------



## CubaMark

See also: *Boston’s Christmas tree comes with a hefty price tag — for Nova Scotia*


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## CubaMark




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## Rps

FeXL said:


> Another unsubstantiated opinion. Just like belly buttons: everybody has one.
> 
> Present some evidence that Breitbart is "the worst possible source". Where? How? Why? How much?
> 
> Instead of parroting the Progressive party line, how about a few empirical examples? Where's the beef?


Here's a nice example from today's postings.

Atlanta Man Shot Dead Outside Bar After Joking That He Voted for Trump.

Read the article and then tell me if there is a connection between the headline and the story.........


----------



## Macfury

It was a pickup article form the New York Post

Man gunned down outside bar after he joked about voting for Trump | New York Post




Rps said:


> Here's a nice example from today's postings.
> 
> Atlanta Man Shot Dead Outside Bar After Joking That He Voted for Trump.
> 
> Read the article and then tell me if there is a connection between the headline and the story.........


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It was a pickup article form the New York Post
> 
> Man gunned down outside bar after he joked about voting for Trump | New York Post


I especially liked how the same article has two different authors .


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I especially liked how the same article has two different authors .


A lot of news aggregators take credit for writing a precis of a linked article. I don't think that's fair.


----------



## wonderings

I just don't get a lot of what is going on with these protesting, especially with students.
'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump - CNNPolitics.com

These groups want schools to become sanctuaries for undocumented people. Am I missing something? To me this is black and white. You are in the country legally or illegally. Why does anyone think anyone there illegally has a right to stay?

Now I think the wall is a dumb idea, and while Trump is not the ideal candidate I would have chosen, I do like some of his strong stances on illegal, and I repeat ILLEGAL immigration. Is this just more of the self entitled generation crying? Or is there something more here? I honestly cannot see any legal action kicking out people who have legal student visa's. I would think the only people who should be worried are people who are in the country illegally?


----------



## Macfury

You're not mistaken and it's not just the students. A significant number of US cities officially endorse_ illegal _immigration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city



> A sanctuary city is a city... that has adopted a policy of protecting illegal aliens by not prosecuting them solely for violating federal immigration laws in the country in which they are now living illegally. Such a policy can be set out expressly in a law (de jure) or observed only in practice (de facto). The term applies generally to cities that do not use municipal funds or resources to enforce national immigration laws, _and usually forbid police or municipal employees to inquire about a person's immigration status._






wonderings said:


> I just don't get a lot of what is going on with these protesting, especially with students.
> 'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> These groups want schools to become sanctuaries for undocumented people. Am I missing something? To me this is black and white. You are in the country legally or illegally. Why does anyone think anyone there illegally has a right to stay?
> 
> Now I think the wall is a dumb idea, and while Trump is not the ideal candidate I would have chosen, I do like some of his strong stances on illegal, and I repeat ILLEGAL immigration. Is this just more of the self entitled generation crying? Or is there something more here? I honestly cannot see any legal action kicking out people who have legal student visa's. I would think the only people who should be worried are people who are in the country illegally?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I just don't get a lot of what is going on with these protesting, especially with students.
> 
> 'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> These groups want schools to become sanctuaries for undocumented people. Am I missing something? To me this is black and white. You are in the country legally or illegally. Why does anyone think anyone there illegally has a right to stay?
> 
> 
> 
> Now I think the wall is a dumb idea, and while Trump is not the ideal candidate I would have chosen, I do like some of his strong stances on illegal, and I repeat ILLEGAL immigration. Is this just more of the self entitled generation crying? Or is there something more here? I honestly cannot see any legal action kicking out people who have legal student visa's. I would think the only people who should be worried are people who are in the country illegally?



How do you feel about a national Muslim registry? For legal or illegal Muslims? 


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## Macfury

I support an immigrant registry. No registry for illegal immigrants--they should be deported.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you feel about a national Muslim registry? For legal or illegal Muslims?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> I just don't get a lot of what is going on with these protesting, especially with students.
> 'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> These groups want schools to become sanctuaries for undocumented people. Am I missing something? To me this is black and white. You are in the country legally or illegally. Why does anyone think anyone there illegally has a right to stay?
> 
> Now I think the wall is a dumb idea, and while Trump is not the ideal candidate I would have chosen, I do like some of his strong stances on illegal, and I repeat ILLEGAL immigration. Is this just more of the self entitled generation crying? Or is there something more here? I honestly cannot see any legal action kicking out people who have legal student visa's. I would think the only people who should be worried are people who are in the country illegally?


Check outside of the Lamestream. If the protestors are being bused in it's a fairly safe bet that George Soros is paying the bill, including their bail as needed.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You're not mistaken and it's not just the students. A significant number of US cities officially endorse_ illegal _immigration:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city


You are incorrect. They do not _endorse_ illegal immigration. They advocate protection for undocumented migrants. Not the same thing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I support an immigrant registry. No registry for illegal immigrants--they should be deported.



For legal immigrants? And for all religious groups or just Muslims? Just wondering, because Hitler started with a Jewish registry—something to speed things up when it came time to round them up. 


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You are incorrect. They do not _endorse_ illegal immigration. They advocate protection for undocumented migrants. Not the same thing.



Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!


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## Macfury

Once you start in with the Hitler stuff, I'm done. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> For legal immigrants? And for all religious groups or just Muslims? Just wondering, because Hitler started with a Jewish registry—something to speed things up when it came time to round them up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!


What is the conspiracy theory to which you're referring?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You are incorrect. They do not _endorse_ illegal immigration. They advocate protection for undocumented migrants. Not the same thing.


A better word would be that they _encourage_ it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Once you start in with the Hitler stuff, I'm done.



Excellent! If I'd have known that's all it took I'd have brought it up a lot sooner. Buh-bye! 


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## Macfury

I'd just keep mentioning Hitler in every post if I were you! It will make you look damned smart, while warding me off.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Excellent! If I'd have known that's all it took I'd have brought it up a lot sooner. Buh-bye!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'd just keep mentioning Hitler in every post if I were you! It will make you look damned smart, while warding me off.




Wait a minute. I thought you were gone? 


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## Macfury

One Hitler per message is what it takes.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wait a minute. I thought you were gone?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> One Hitler per message is what it takes.



Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler 

I'd like to pay in advance please. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
> 
> I'd like to pay in advance please.


Ding, ding we have a winna for the single most offensive post of the year. tptptptp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Tell you what. Why don't you naysayers explain all the ways the Trump administration is not like the early days of Hitler, and I'll consider your arguments. I mean, according to Ivana, Donald did use to keep a book of Hitler's speeches on the nightstand next to his bed. Seems he found the guy inspiring. 




























https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.bus...lers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8?client=safari


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## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you feel about a national Muslim registry? For legal or illegal Muslims?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well first off, why should there be a registry for illegal Muslims or any illegal immigrant? If you are here in Canada or the US or any country for that matter illegally, then you should be sent back. If there is a registry for illegal immigrants, it should merely be to keep track of those who broke our laws and then keep it on record if they ever try again. There is no human right for people to be in America or Canada. 

What would a Muslim registry entail? Not that familiar with this plan that Trumps transition team seems to deny was ever made though there is video proof I read. I have no issue keeping track of new immigrants for a while. Plenty come and use our health care system. Though I think it might be better to look at properly assimilating people into Canadian/US culture. Not an expert on any of this, just off the top of my head.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Ding, ding we have a winna for the single most offensive post of the year. tptptptp


Nobody should waste their time proving to a prejudiced party that a political figure is NOT Hitler. The same character used to imply that Stephen Harper was a Fascist as well. It's a weak flailing attack for bitter losers who had their tribal values repudiated by the Trump election. 

Get used to saying it: "President Trump, President Trump..."


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Well first off, why should there be a registry for illegal Muslims or any illegal immigrant? If you are here in Canada or the US or any country for that matter illegally, then you should be sent back. If there is a registry for illegal immigrants, it should merely be to keep track of those who broke our laws and then keep it on record if they ever try again. There is no human right for people to be in America or Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> What would a Muslim registry entail? Not that familiar with this plan that Trumps transition team seems to deny was ever made though there is video proof I read. I have no issue keeping track of new immigrants for a while. Plenty come and use our health care system. Though I think it might be better to look at properly assimilating people into Canadian/US culture. Not an expert on any of this, just off the top of my head.



I agree. The immigration system already keeps track of who is jew to he country. A registry it seems to me is a redundant measure in normal times—but it sure made rounding up Jews in Germany much more expedient. The signs are all there if one cares to read them.


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nobody should waste their time proving to a prejudiced party that a political figure is NOT Hitler. The same character used to imply that Stephen Harper was a Fascist as well. It's a weak flailing attack for bitter losers who had their tribal values repudiated by the Trump election.
> 
> 
> 
> Get used to saying it: "President Trump, President Trump..."



You just used the H word. Bloody hypocrite. 


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## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> I agree. The immigration system already keeps track of who is jew to he country. A registry it seems to me is a redundant measure in normal times—but it sure made rounding up Jews in Germany much more expedient. The signs are all there if one cares to read them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It sure did in Germany. Now what if all the Jews had guns, fully automatic assault rifles, would the Nazis have been able to round them up? Should they make it even easier for people to get guns, especially immigrants to potentially avoid another holocaust? I am pretty sure it would take a whole hell of a lot to allow the American government to start rounding up people who are legally in the country and throw them in camps. And with a world watching, it would take a lot of free powerful countries ignoring another holocaust for it to happen without a war of some kind. There is no hiding these things now, not with social media. Where do we draw the line in this fear of another holocaust that seems to pop up whenever there is an election. Heard more then a few times Hillary being called "Hitlery" and the obvious same with Trump. 

We learn from history, hopefully anyways. I have had the opportunity to visit the Holocaust museum in Jerusalem 2 times, the old museum and the newer current museum. You may go in with a smile enjoying a nice sunny day, but no one leaves without a few tears in their eyes.


----------



## FeXL

OK, so I searched for the article headline, found the article & find no disconnect. What am I missing?



Rps said:


> Here's a nice example from today's postings.
> 
> Atlanta Man Shot Dead Outside Bar After Joking That He Voted for Trump.
> 
> Read the article and then tell me if there is a connection between the headline and the story.........


----------



## FeXL

WTF is an _undocumented migrant_?

Is that Prog-speak for illegal alien?



CubaMark said:


> They advocate protection for undocumented migrants.


----------



## Macfury

The fact that neither Hillary nor Trump are remotely fascist or showed any signs of bringing about a holocaust should put most of this talk to rest.



wonderings said:


> It sure did in Germany. Now what if all the Jews had guns, fully automatic assault rifles, would the Nazis have been able to round them up? Should they make it even easier for people to get guns, especially immigrants to potentially avoid another holocaust? I am pretty sure it would take a whole hell of a lot to allow the American government to start rounding up people who are legally in the country and throw them in camps. And with a world watching, it would take a lot of free powerful countries ignoring another holocaust for it to happen without a war of some kind. There is no hiding these things now, not with social media. Where do we draw the line in this fear of another holocaust that seems to pop up whenever there is an election. Heard more then a few times Hillary being called "Hitlery" and the obvious same with Trump.
> 
> We learn from history, hopefully anyways. I have had the opportunity to visit the Holocaust museum in Jerusalem 2 times, the old museum and the newer current museum. You may go in with a smile enjoying a nice sunny day, but no one leaves without a few tears in their eyes.


----------



## Macfury

Harper?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You just used the H word. Bloody hypocrite.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

SInce Obama passed very few signature bills, I doubt he has much experience either. 



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> It sure did in Germany. Now what if all the Jews had guns, fully automatic assault rifles, would the Nazis have been able to round them up? Should they make it even easier for people to get guns, especially immigrants to potentially avoid another holocaust?


The interesting fact regarding this is that is exactly what Hitler did in Germany. He made firearm ownership illegal first. Then the Jews had little to no way to fight back.

Contrast that with the current crop of fools who are drawing comparisons between Trump & Hitler. Trump endorses concealed carry & firearm ownership. Bill's Wife is the one who wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment...

Just who is more like Hitler?


----------



## Rps

FeXL, did you happen to notice McFury's post with the same story in the New York Times.....both stories had different authors, also the headline is inclined to lead you to believe that the reason he was shot was because of his Trump musings, which was not the case.


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## Rps

Can we dispense with the 15th party references on this subject of Trump and Hitler's speeches. Hearsay at its finest. The bickering here is almost childish. Again, there is a difference between electioneering and governing. Let the guy govern and see how many of his promises he keeps. I mean really, most of his stuff is just emotionalism. Wait till he has to deal with both houses, NATO, the WTO and the list goes on.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Can we dispense with the 15th party references on this subject of Trump and Hitler's speeches. Hearsay at its finest. The bickering here is almost childish. Again, there is a difference between electioneering and governing. Let the guy govern and see how many of his promises he keeps. I mean really, most of his stuff is just emotionalism. Wait till he has to deal with both houses, NATO, the WTO and the list goes on.


I agree. This back and forth and back and forth name-calling is getting everyone nowhere. I find that I don't even view this thread for a day or so to see some flaming each other in the same manner as before the election. 

While I am concerned about Trump I am willing to take a wait and see approach to his government. I believe that Bernie Sanders said it best that we should watch him closely and be vigilant, but in a peaceful manner.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## FeXL

Instead of beating around the bush with generalities, why don't you address the problem directly?



Rps said:


> Can we dispense with the 15th party references on this subject of Trump and Hitler's speeches.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Can we dispense with the 15th party references on this subject of Trump and Hitler's speeches. Hearsay at its finest. The bickering here is almost childish. Again, there is a difference between electioneering and governing. Let the guy govern and see how many of his promises he keeps. I mean really, most of his stuff is just emotionalism. Wait till he has to deal with both houses, NATO, the WTO and the list goes on.



You're missing the point, Rps. Hitler's rise is one comparator, but an apt one. You could compare him to many other dictators if you choose. I look at Animal Farm, which is about the Russian revolution and ultimately Stalin, but can work as a framework for the rise of many corrupt governments. One can dismiss the Hitler comparison by asserting that Trump has not killed six million Jews or what have you, but don't forget, that was by the end of his reign, not the beginning. At the start, he was more of an outsider who vowed to make Germany great again, and who found a convenient scapegoat for Germany's problems personified with the Jews. The purpose of the registry was to track them—which made it easier to exterminate them later. Hitler didn't start as a mad man, but it developed over time, and the signs were there. Many of those signs are also there with Trump, of you're willing to take a closer look. Appointing Stephen Bannon as his chief advisor is not helping to dispel this theory. 


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## SINC

Good grief, have you gone off the deep end Frank? Do you think for even one second that there are not enough people in place who keep tabs on the president that if even a hint of such behaviour as you are spouting about happened, he would be shut down in a heartbeat.

Take a deep breath, clear your mind and try again. What you are babbling about ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Macfury

Time to send Freddie a do-it-yourself headwear kit:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Good grief, have you gone off the deep end Frank? Do you think for even one second that there are not enough people in place who keep tabs on the president that if even a hint of such behaviour as you are spouting about happened, he would be shut down in a heartbeat.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a deep breath, clear your mind and try again. What you are babbling about ain't gonna happen.



Wake up, Don. It's already happening. No one knew the end game of Hitler back in the 1930's either, or else they didn't take it too seriously. They would regret that later. The moves are reminiscent. They might seem mild enough to you now, but remember, this is still the honeymoon period. Americans have just elected a dangerous man. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Well, evidently Trump's election has done a lot of good for Justin Trudeau, at least on the West coast. 




























http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...join-canada-calexit-talk-envelops-west-coast/


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Wake up, Don. It's already happening. No one knew the end game of Hitler back in the 1930's either, or else they didn't take it too seriously. They would regret that later. The moves are reminiscent. They might seem mild enough to you now, but remember, this is still the honeymoon period. Americans have just elected a dangerous man.


Yep, that confirms it, you've lost it.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Yep, that confirms it, you've lost it.


It's not Trump who's scaring me...


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, evidently Trump's election has done a lot of good for Justin Trudeau, at least on the West coast.


California's population outnumbers that of Canada. It's a non-starter.


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## ehMax

SINC said:


> Yep, that confirms it, you've lost it.


I've often thought the same thing to be honest. So have many, many people. I have it all in perspective, Donald Trump hasn't taken any serious actions as president that have me really worried. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But there is nothing wrong at being vigilant at the slightest sign of someone like Hitler coming into power, and there most CERTAINLY have been some similarities in his early rhetoric, and that *IS* how it all started. 

It's very real to my family. I was in Netherlands for their Liberation Day and Memorial Day and on the trip, toured museums of the dutch resistance, of which my father was a part of. Plus serveral other museums and monuments related to WWII. There in Europe, they are much more blantant and unfiltered on what happened when Hitler came to power. It struck me so much beforehand, just how on earth someone like Hitler could come to power... how a nation could be so stupid. The things I learned was how everything came in so subtley with incremenetal steps over several years. It did start with lots of rhetoric on nationalism and blaming a people for problems. It started with talk of a superious people. Trump often talks about his genes and his belief in genetics, and he's very proud of his German line. To many extents, there's nothing wrong with that... I'm proud to be Dutch. But, talk about stuff he has talked about can get scary really quickly. 

Nothing wrong with being vigilent. 





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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## SINC

ehMax said:


> Nothing wrong with being vigilent.


Nope not at all, but I draw the line at paranoid, and the symptoms are growing with each post.


----------



## Macfury

* Eugenics started with the "progressive" left.
* The Nazis were Socialists, just as many Democrats are.
* Hillary Clinton and Democrats practice a type of crony capitalism entirely consistent with Fascism.
* The Democrats want to nationalize health care as Hitler did.
* Obama wanted to create a national federal police force equal in power to the US military--Kripo and Gestapo anyone?





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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




.

Do you see how easy it is to stitch these narratives together according to one's own confirmation bias?



ehMax said:


> I've often thought the same thing to be honest. So have many, many people. I have it all in perspective, Donald Trump hasn't taken any serious actions as president that have me really worried. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But there is nothing wrong at being vigilant at the slightest sign of someone like Hitler coming into power, and there most CERTAINLY have been some similarities in his early rhetoric, and that *IS* how it all started.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> I've often thought the same thing to be honest. So have many, many people. I have it all in perspective, Donald Trump hasn't taken any serious actions as president that have me really worried. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But there is nothing wrong at being vigilant at the slightest sign of someone like Hitler coming into power, and there most CERTAINLY have been some similarities in his early rhetoric, and that *IS* how it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> It's very real to my family. I was in Netherlands for their Liberation Day and Memorial Day and on the trip, toured museums of the dutch resistance, of which my father was a part of. Plus serveral other museums and monuments related to WWII. There in Europe, they are much more blantant and unfiltered on what happened when Hitler came to power. It struck me so much beforehand, just how on earth someone like Hitler could come to power... how a nation could be so stupid. The things I learned was how everything came in so subtley with incremenetal steps over several years. It did start with lots of rhetoric on nationalism and blaming a people for problems. It started with talk of a superious people. Trump often talks about his genes and his belief in genetics, and he's very proud of his German line. To many extents, there's nothing wrong with that... I'm proud to be Dutch. But, talk about stuff he has talked about can get scary really quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with being vigilent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



You explained it very well. Thank you, John. There are patterns to watch for, and making a white supremacist is chief advisor is not a good sign. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> There are patterns to watch for, and making a white supremacist is chief advisor is not a good sign.


And you know he is a white supremacist because...?


----------



## Macfury

On the other hand, here is Hillary Clinton embracing Senator Robert Byrd, who was an actual white supremacist and KKK member:


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Why not give him a chance? Because it's not in your nature Freddie--you're too heavily prejudiced!


----------



## CubaMark

*And so it begins....*

_"One was once deemed too racist to become a judge. One called Islam "a cancer." One favours increasing mass surveillance."_

*Trump transition team taps Flynn, Sessions, Pompeo for key security and law enforcement roles
*








President-elect Donald Trump's appointees, from left: Lt.-Gen. Michael Flynn as national security adviser, Alabama Senator Jeff
Sessions as attorney general, and Kansas Republican Congressman Mike Pompeo as director of the CIA. (Reuters, Associated Press)​
Brace for impact, America.

President-elect Donald Trump wants his national security adviser to be a retired intelligence officer who has called Islam "a cancer" and flew to Moscow last year to dine with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a black-tie gala.

He wants the U.S. Department of Justice to be headed by an Alabama senator who was, in 1986, deemed too racist for a federal judgeship.

Trump would also hand over leadership of the country's spy agency to a Tea Party Republican who favours reviving mass surveillance programs.

Three high-profile picks — Michael Flynn for national security adviser, Jeff Sessions for attorney general, and Mike Pompeo for CIA director — are sure to give the White House a shakeup.​(CBC)


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *And so it begins....*
> 
> 
> 
> _"One was once deemed too racist to become a judge. One called Islam "a cancer." One favours increasing mass surveillance."_
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump transition team taps Flynn, Sessions, Pompeo for key security and law enforcement roles
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President-elect Donald Trump's appointees, from left: Lt.-Gen. Michael Flynn as national security adviser, Alabama Senator Jeff
> 
> Sessions as attorney general, and Kansas Republican Congressman Mike Pompeo as director of the CIA. (Reuters, Associated Press)​
> 
> 
> Brace for impact, America.
> 
> 
> 
> President-elect Donald Trump wants his national security adviser to be a retired intelligence officer who has called Islam "a cancer" and flew to Moscow last year to dine with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a black-tie gala.
> 
> 
> 
> He wants the U.S. Department of Justice to be headed by an Alabama senator who was, in 1986, deemed too racist for a federal judgeship.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump would also hand over leadership of the country's spy agency to a Tea Party Republican who favours reviving mass surveillance programs.
> 
> 
> 
> Three high-profile picks — Michael Flynn for national security adviser, Jeff Sessions for attorney general, and Mike Pompeo for CIA director — are sure to give the White House a shakeup.​
> (CBC)



Good information, Mark. "Prejudiced" means to pre-judge someone before you even have any cause to draw conclusions about their character. It is not prejudice if you observe the person and then use what you discover to inform your opinion. All of the Trump appointees have backgrounds that can be checked, as does Trump himself. Our right wing friends here do it all the time when they judge "progs." All of the early signs are that the Trump government is not going to be a good or wise government and will show extreme bias in its decisions, with control of the House, the Senate, and the courts. As the Mayor already explained, vigilance is needed. 


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## Macfury

You're so prejudiced and filled with hate and denial that you accepted that "report" immediately because it supported your confirmation bias. Your paper gets a failing grade. Well done!




Freddie_Biff said:


> Good information, Mark. "Prejudiced" means to pre-judge someone before you even have any cause to draw conclusions about their character. It is not prejudice if you observe the person and then use what you discover to inform your opinion. All of the Trump appointees have backgrounds that can be checked, as does Trump himself. Our right wing friends here do it all the time when they judge "progs." All of the early signs are that the Trump government is not going to be a good or wise government and will show extreme bias in its decisions, with control of the House, the Senate, and the courts. As the Mayor already explained, vigilance is needed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're so prejudiced and filled with hate and denial that you accepted that "report" immediately because it supported your confirmation bias. Your paper gets a failing grade. Well done!















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

" But today we kneel only to truth, follow only beauty, and obey only love." Kahlil Gibran

If only this were true today here in this thread. Paix, mes amis.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If only I could access a search engine and find the best memes like Freddie.... oh wait!


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> " But today we kneel only to truth, follow only beauty, and obey only love." Kahlil Gibran
> 
> 
> 
> If only this were true today here in this thread. Paix, mes amis.



That's a wonderful sentiment, Marc, and I'm glad I've discovered other threads in other forums where politics is actually a discussion. Sadly, that is not what tends to happen here. Commenting on the potential dangers of a Trump presidency invites derision from the usual suspects, ad hom attacks and general unpleasantness. I wish it were not so, I wish there were more respect for each other's thoughts and feelings, but it is what it is. Shalom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Some people get it.





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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Some people get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Link doesn't seem to work. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's a wonderful sentiment, Marc, and I'm glad I've discovered other threads in other forums where politics is actually a discussion. Sadly, that is not what tends to happen here. Commenting on the potential dangers of a Trump presidency invites derision from the usual suspects, ad hom attacks and general unpleasantness. I wish it were not so, I wish there were more respect for each other's thoughts and feelings, but it is what it is. Shalom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A valid point, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


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## CubaMark




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## Macfury

You're not "commenting" on a Trump presidency. You're in unhinged attack mode and grabbing at every bit of unfounded information you can drag from the Internet to create some sort of bizarre and unfounded parallel to Hitler. You won't get respect for such thoughts here, because it isn't warranted. 

(And stop misusing the term "ad hom" while you're at it).



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's a wonderful sentiment, Marc, and I'm glad I've discovered other threads in other forums where politics is actually a discussion. Sadly, that is not what tends to happen here. Commenting on the potential dangers of a Trump presidency invites derision from the usual suspects, ad hom attacks and general unpleasantness. I wish it were not so, I wish there were more respect for each other's thoughts and feelings, but it is what it is. Shalom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Link doesn't seem to work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Works just fine on my MBP, Mac Mini, iPhone 6S and iPad Mini.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're not "commenting" on a Trump presidency. You're in unhinged attack mode and grabbing at every bit of unfounded information you can drag from the Internet to create some sort of bizarre and unfounded parallel to Hitler. You won't get respect for such thoughts here, because it isn't warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> (And stop misusing the term "ad hom" while you're at it).



Nope. I've been critical of Trump's qualifications for the job from the start, and the questionable appointments he is making, not to mention wanting too security clearance for his children is ridiculous. And "unhinged" is a perfect example of an ad hom. Really, you should try a little harder to be persuasive, my learned friend. 











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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Works just fine on my MBP, Mac Mini, iPhone 6S and iPad Mini.



I get a black screen that won't play. Just letting you know. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. I've been critical of Trump's qualifications for the job from the start, and the questionable appointments he is making, not to mention wanting too security clearance for his children is ridiculous. And "unhinged" is a perfect example of an ad hom. Really, you should try a little harder to be persuasive, my learned friend.


If your _attack_ is unhinged, it's not an ad hom.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If your _attack_ is unhinged, it's not an ad hom.



Well, it isn't. It's a carefully thought out comparison, and I'm certainly not the only person who's noticed the similarities. The admission that you're not enough willing to consider the merits of the comparison says a great deal about you. You keep using the word "unhinged"; I don't think it means what you think it means. Therefore your criticism is an attack on the person, not the argument—-an ad hominem.











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## Macfury

Your attack is unhinged from fact.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your attack is unhinged from fact.















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

A comparison of some of Trump and Hitler's tactics. Beware: this article may be at odds with your confirmation bias. 




























https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...res-with-adolf-hitler/?utm_term=.e185a4631afd


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## SINC

Paranoia rules.


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Paranoia rules.




So does ignorance, unfortunately. Disregard at your own peril, assuming you even read the article. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> So does ignorance, unfortunately. Disregard at your own peril, assuming you even read the article.


How could I not? Your postings from your phone are so friggin' large it is impossible to miss.


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## Macfury

Do you ever even bother to challenge the drivel you post? Do you think that a random writer from Washington Post is some sort of authority on these matters because they agree with you? Think for yourself Freddie--you've got to get out of the box you're trapped inside!



Freddie_Biff said:


> So does ignorance, unfortunately. Disregard at your own peril, assuming you even read the article.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> How could I not? Your postings from your phone are so friggin' large it is impossible to miss.



Excellent. It's like Readers' Digest for old people font. FRIGGIN' HUGE! 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do you ever even bother to challenge the drivel you post? Do you think that a random writer from Washington Post is some sort of authority on these matters because they agree with you? Think for yourself Freddie--you've got to get out of the box you're trapped inside!



That's funny. And I suppose you don't see yourself trapped inside of a box. Oh, the irony is mind-boggling. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Let's start with something basic. What makes Bannon a white supremacist? No more secondary links in which someone expresses this opinion without backing it up. Break your box Freddie!


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Let's start with something basic. What makes Bannon a white supremacist? No more secondary links in which someone expresses this opinion without backing it up. Break your box Freddie!


You are perfectly capable of looking things up yourself, Macfy. I wish I had time to explain it to you, but I don't, so here's a starter article. If you don't like it, please feel free to search for more. Perhaps you can find a source that explains how Bannon is not a white supremacist—er, _nationalist_.

Is Steve Bannon a white supremacist? Trump's advisor wants to rebrand racism as American "nationalism" â€” Quartz


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## Macfury

Putting your own nation first is not white supremacy. The article makes it clear that Bannon is not "technically" a white supremacist. In other words, they could not make it stick.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are perfectly capable of looking things up yourself, Macfy. I wish I had time to explain it to you, but I don't, so here's a starter article. If you don't like it, please feel free to search for more. Perhaps you can find a source that explains how Bannon is not a white supremacist—er, _nationalist_.
> 
> Is Steve Bannon a white supremacist? Trump's advisor wants to rebrand racism as American "nationalism" â€” Quartz


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Putting your own nation first is not white supremacy. The article makes it clear that Bannon is not "technically" a white supremacist. In other words, they could not make it stick.



Kind of depends on whether the concept of your "own country" includes multiple ethnic and religious groups, doesn't it? I believe the "technicalities" are worth paying attention to. 


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## Macfury

OK, shoot...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Kind of depends on whether the concept of your "own country" includes multiple ethnic and religious groups, doesn't it? I believe the "technicalities" are worth paying attention to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Frankly this "Trump was sent by God" stuff scares me even more than the parallels to the rise of Adolf.



> Billy Graham's Daughter Proclaims: Trump Is Proof God Has Heard Our Prayers
> 
> In her latest blog, Lotz shares that Trump's unlikely victory is owed to the blessing of God. She begins by saying: "God has established Mr. Trump as the 45th President of the United States…for the sake of the American people. God has kept the first part of His promise in 2 Chronicles 7:14…If My people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin and will heal their land.
> 
> "The only possible answer for Mr. Trump’s dramatic victory is that God has indeed heard from Heaven. Just as certainly as He has answered our prayers for the national election, He will forgive the sin that we have confessed to Him. Because He said He would. Now it’s time to claim His promise for the healing of our land."


http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/b...aims_trump_is_proof_god_has_heard_our_prayers


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## Freddie_Biff

Gotta love them good ol' boys and the way interpret Trump's agenda. 




























http://www.advocate.com/politics/20...823746601412_1135248403225613#f1e87114636d7b2


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## SINC

Good grief, must you post such huge images? They are way oversized. A simple link would suffice if you insist on using your phone.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Frankly this "Trump was sent by God" stuff scares me even more than the parallels to the rise of Adolf.


Just a distraction from failing to prove Bannon was supposed to be a white supremacist. Just like you called Donald Trump a rapist of an underaged girl during the election with no evidence whatsoever.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Gotta love them good ol' boys and the way interpret Trump's agenda.


Trump's agenda?



> It is no surprise that a large portion of U.S. citizens are unhappy with the outcome of the presidential election, but there is one surprise that may just make some a bit more accepting of Donald Trump. The president-elect does, indeed, support the LGBT community, and even held a rainbow flag at a Colorado rally during the campaign that said, “LGBT for Trump.” President-elect Trump is the first Republican president ever to embrace gay equality, Washington Times reports.


Read more at Donald Trump Surprise: President-Elect Supports LGBT Community, Holds Rainbow Flag At Colorado Rally ‘LGBT For Trump’


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Good grief, must you post such huge images? They are way oversized. A simple link would suffice if you insist on using your phone.



If they're too big for you, don't look at 'em, Don. Your griping about this has become monotonous. Perhaps you could comment on the message rather than the size. Or maybe try using something other than your computer all the time. Have a nice day! 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just a distraction from failing to prove Bannon was supposed to be a white supremacist. Just like you called Donald Trump a rapist of an underaged girl during the election with no evidence whatsoever.



You know, you really whine a lot. Have you nothing better to do? If I found the perfect argument or the perfect source, you'd still complain. Seeing the common denominator yet? There's no pleasing you, so I've stopped trying. The links I provide are for other people who are not so closed-minded. I've stopped trying to persuade you about anything long ago. Pointless mission. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Trump demands that the cast of Hamilton apologize to VP-Elect Pence. For the record, here are the words they are supposed to apologize for. 










And here are the reactionary Tweets from the President-elect. Such maturity. Such a shining example of good leadership. 










http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/entert...errated-cast-of-hamilton-on-twitter-1.3168769




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## CubaMark




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## Macfury

The common denominator? You have never successfully proved your point here. You're not a persuader--you have opinions that you barely make an effort to support. Your posts are so lazy that you ask the person you're sparring with to prove them for you. Good luck with that, Freddie!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know, you really whine a lot. Have you nothing better to do? If I found the perfect argument or the perfect source, you'd still complain. Seeing the common denominator yet? There's no pleasing you, so I've stopped trying. The links I provide are for other people who are not so closed-minded. I've stopped trying to persuade you about anything long ago. Pointless mission.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump demands that the cast of Hamilton apologize to VP-Elect Pence. For the record, here are the words they are supposed to apologize for.


They should apologize for singling out an audience member and harassing him. They should do their politicizing on their own time.


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## Macfury

Why did you post that?



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



We like Ike! 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The common denominator? You have never successfully proved your point here. You're not a persuader--you have opinions that you barely make an effort to support. Your posts are so lazy that you ask the person you're sparring with to prove them for you. Good luck with that, Freddie!



The common denominator? No matter what I post you're going to disagree with. And your use of the term "lazy" is once again misinformed. You don't agree with the outcome, so you slam the messenger.










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## Macfury

There is no outcome, other than that you've failed to make your point. You called Trump a rapist without a shred of proof. You call Bannon a white supremacist and all that you can demonstrate is that he supports America first. 

To put a little sauce on your failure, you dress it up with a large photo you copied from the internet.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The common denominator? No matter what I post you're going to disagree with. And your use of the term "lazy" is once again misinformed. You don't agree with the outcome, so you slam the messenger. [/IMG]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There is no outcome, other than that you've failed to make your point. You called Trump a rapist without a shred of proof. You call Bannon a white supremacist and all that you can demonstrate is that he supports America first.
> 
> 
> 
> To put a little sauce on your failure, you dress it up with a large photo you copied from the internet.



Why do you care so much, McFlurry? It's just a dumb little Internet forum. 


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## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/o...rod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0

A thoughtful and revealing article. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> We like Ike!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I was 4 years old, my mother took me with her as she campaigned for Stevenson in 1952. In retrospect, Ike was the best Republican president in my lifetime.


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## Macfury

If you care enough to call Trump a rapist on a dumb little Internet forum where I happen to make my part-time home, I expect you to back it up.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you care so much, McFlurry? It's just a dumb little Internet forum.


----------



## Macfury

It reads like preposterous fear-mongering from a sore loser.



Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/o...rod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0
> 
> A thoughtful and revealing article. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> When I was 4 years old, my mother took me with her as she campaigned for Stevenson in 1952. In retrospect, Ike was the best Republican president in my lifetime.



It was a different day and age, yes? More...civility perhaps. Senator McCarthy notwithstanding. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you care enough to call Trump a rapist on a dumb little Internet forum where I happen to make my part-time home, I expect you to back it up.



FFS, McFlurry, you don't own the forum. People can post whatever they like, you're free to disagree, but you don't get to dictate how people post. If this is your "part-time home," you seriously need a new hobby. As for links I or anyone else provides, read them or don't—I don't really care anymore. I find "discussions" with you become toxic very quickly. And quite frankly it's become boring. Your approval/disapproval just doesn't mean anything to me. I post so that others may have information to consider. If that doesn't meet your expectations, well that's just too bad. Your "evidence" certainly does not meet my expectations and I've learned to live with it. 

Have a nice Sunday. 


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## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> When I was 4 years old, my mother took me with her as she campaigned for Stevenson in 1952. In retrospect, Ike was the best Republican president in my lifetime.


How quickly we forget the postwar Eisenhower death camps.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/o...rod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> A thoughtful and revealing article. Paix, mes amis.



"It’s all a terrible mistake. Trump affects something close to a regal pout, close enough anyway to be perfected through Botox. He loves gilt, gold and pomp. He’s interested in authority, but not details. He yearns to watch the genuflections of the awed. He loves ribbon-cutting and the regalia of power. Used to telling minions they’re fired, he prefers subjects to citizens. In short, he’d be better off at Buckingham Palace."

Excellent analysis, mon ami. Mercy for sharing, Marc. 


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## Macfury

When you fail to make your point in any discussion, Freddie, you declare it toxic, pick up your marbles and leave. Call someone a rapist and then become "bored" with the mess you've left behind.

I have no interest in dictating what you should post. But I will be on it in a flash if you post unsubstantiated accusations--no matter how "bored" you become.

You have a great Sunday too!



Freddie_Biff said:


> FFS, McFlurry, you don't own the forum. People can post whatever they like, you're free to disagree, but you don't get to dictate how people post. If this is your "part-time home," you seriously need a new hobby. As for links I or anyone else provides, read them or don't—I don't really care anymore. I find "discussions" with you become toxic very quickly. And quite frankly it's become boring. Your approval/disapproval just doesn't mean anything to me. I post so that others may have information to consider. If that doesn't meet your expectations, well that's just too bad. Your "evidence" certainly does not meet my expectations and I've learned to live with it.
> 
> Have a nice Sunday.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> When you fail to make your point in any discussion, Freddie, you declare it toxic, pick up your marbles and leave. Call someone a rapist and then become "bored" with the mess you've left behind.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no interest in dictating what you should post. But I will be on it in a flash if you post unsubstantiated accusations--no matter how "bored" you become.
> 
> 
> 
> You have a great Sunday too!



Then apparently you need a life, mon ami. This dumb little Internet forum is simply not worth the aggravation. It doesn't even pay well. Or at all. How much time and effort is it worth? I make my points well enough every time I write something, although apparently not to your satisfaction. Fine by me. Members of other forums are good with it. You need something to object to. That's fine, but it really has become monotonous. 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> "It’s all a terrible mistake. Trump affects something close to a regal pout, close enough anyway to be perfected through Botox. He loves gilt, gold and pomp. He’s interested in authority, but not details. He yearns to watch the genuflections of the awed. He loves ribbon-cutting and the regalia of power. Used to telling minions they’re fired, he prefers subjects to citizens. In short, he’d be better off at Buckingham Palace."
> 
> Excellent analysis, mon ami. Mercy for sharing, Marc.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

You typically don't make your points well. If you did, I wouldn't object.

Typically, it takes me about 30 seconds to reply. That's about all it's worth!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Then apparently you need a life, mon ami. This dumb little Internet forum is simply not worth the aggravation. It doesn't even pay well. Or at all. How much time and effort is it worth? I make my points well enough every time I write something, although apparently not to your satisfaction. Fine by me. Members of other forums are good with it. You need something to object to. That's fine, but it really has become monotonous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Sorry for taking so long to reply...



Macfury said:


> Interesting points, screature.





> screature: 1. Controlling immigration from terrorist countries: FACT. There have been more Americans killed by home grown terrorist than all foreign terrorists combined.
> 
> Macfury: Agreed. But the immigration controls are still necessary.


Screening of potential immigrants is absolutely necessary and has been done for generations in the US and Canada.




> screature: 2. Reducing tax rates while eliminating loopholes: Sounds good in imagination but where and what is his plan? It seems he has personally benefited from loopholes so that he has not paid taxes in over a decade. Why should anyone believe him?
> 
> Macfury: The carried interest deduction would be eliminated, for one. Taking advantage of carrying losses forward is not a loophole--it's simply part of tax law (that I agree with). I'm not sure whether or not Trump paid federal taxes for 10 years. I don't expect people to believe him, but I do.


I agree carrying forward capital losses is legit, but roughly 10 years ago he had about $100M in loses. Now he claims he is a multimillionaire and still has not paid taxes in a decade. How can that be? His carry forward losses should have been used up a long time ago now.




> screature: 3. Enforcing border regulations to a greater degree: I don't even know what that means or what it would look like. Do you? I picture 24 hours wait for even a car coming from Canada or Mexico. Yeah, that will be great for business and the economy of North America.
> 
> Macfury: No more catch-and-release--instead, catch-and-return. Deportation of illegal aliens with criminal records. This is a good start!


What catch and release... How often does that happen on a per-capita means?

Deportation should be considered for criminals, but it all depends on the crime and where it was committed and the threat that the offender may recommit in Canada. For example someone could have a criminal record in some country that was based on any number of political reasons e.g. racism, dissident speech, participating in a protest, etc.etc.

Such situations should not be carte blanch rejected out of hand but be consider in full detail.




> screature: 4. De-funding sanctuary cities: What the f**k are they, where do they exist, how much money is supposedly being spent on them? This point IMO clearly needs further definition on your part.
> 
> Macfury: Chicago, NYC, Tucson, Denver, Miami and many others have official policies that they will not comply with federal immigration regulations regarding the deportation of illegal aliens. The federal government can defund those cities for other programs until they comply.


I didn't know that US cities have any authority or even participate in the process when it comes to the implementation of immigration regulations, they certainly don't in Canada. A link to relevant documentation would be helpful on this point.




> screature: 5. Building a wall (or fence) across the rest of the border: F**k man you are talking about Berlin which even Ronald Regan wanted to come down. Complete and utter nonsense.
> 
> Macfury: Reagan hated the Berlin Wall because it was meant to keep people IN--not OUT!


Well that is a half truth if I ever heard one. The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in yes, but it was also meant to keep unwanted people and ideas/ideals/culture/literature/etc., etc. OUT!

With The Donald, he wants Mexico to pay for the wall, an absurd and impossible idea, and so the Mexican government will be keeping people in. So essentially he wants to mandate and impose that Mexico become like East Berlin.

In the US and especially the South, illegals of any nationality are doing the jobs that US citizens will not do at the price illegals are paid, so blame the employers who take advantage of the illegals by paying them dirt just so they can save money and get rich.

The truth is that illegals do not take away jobs from US citizens, the US citizen employers do.




> screature: 6. Appointing constitutionalist supreme court judges: I think that any judge that gets appointed to the Supreme Court has a pretty good understanding of the Constitution.
> 
> Macfury: Some of the judges believe that International Law should inform their decisions. A Constitutionalist relies only on the US Constitution to interpret cases.


Well that may be the case but if they think that way they should not be US Supreme Court Judges.




> screature: 7. Renegotiating NAFTA: Ha that is a laugh... He only wants to do it to benefit the US! That that you think that it would in any way benefit Canada just displays your rabid partisanship! Even Rona Ambrose came out today criticizing JT for his willingness to open up NAFTA before it was officially requested by the US.
> 
> Macfury: I was only asked which promises he would keep, not which ones I approved of. I'm not sure it would benefit Canada.


Fair enough.




> screature: 8. Approving the Keystone XL pipeline: That would be a good thing for Canada.
> 
> Macfury: Yep.


Glad we can agree on something.




> screature: 9. Rolling back regulations applying to CO2: It is complicated and should not just be done willy nilly. Such decisions should be science based and not based on pure political policy just to get votes.
> 
> Macfury: The most generous estimates of the effect of completely eliminating all CO2 production in the US immediately would delay a significant predicted rise in temperature by a few days at best. I don't believe the science is sound anyway, but taking them at their word, it's a poor result for billions of dollars.


"eliminating all CO2 production in the US immediately", I don't know anyone who is suggesting that and if they are they are off their rocker as it is simply impossible. 

We all have the right to believe or disbelieve anything, that goes without saying, but just because you disbelieve does not mean you are correct in your disbelief.




> screature: 10. Intensifying clean coal technology application: I don't think it really exists. Coal is dirty pure and simple. The money would be better spent on research to bring down the cost of clean energy.
> 
> Macfury: A good article on clean coal:
> 
> https://www.wired.com/2014/03/clean-coal/
> 
> Wind and solar power are too expensive because fossil fuels are so cheap. I don't believe one could make wind power cheap enough to be effective unless fossil fuel costs increased. These alternate technologies will one day take their places competitively as fossil fuel prices increase.


That is no argument against my statement. You seem to think that I was talking about wind and solar power. I was not. I was talking about funding into research that go even beyond the existing alternative energy production methods that could be cheaper and more efficient. Google Joe Oliver's interview last week on CBC Radio, he says it well.




> screature: 11. Reforming considerable portions of Obamacare: At least there is Obamacare and I am sure it could be improved just as our public healthcare system could and should be.
> 
> Macfury: Forcing people to buy non-competitive insurance policies is possibly the worst health care plan anybody could have thought of. The same results could have been achieved with a simple expansion of Medicare/Medicaid.


I don't know about forcing, but like I said I am sure it could be improved just like our system needs to be. But what is the Donald proposing, in detail that, would be better?




> screature: 12. Improving relations with Russia: Sure after Putin is gone, in the mean time stand tall against the corrupt oligarch and former KGB agent who wants to "Make Russia Great Again"!
> 
> Macfury: I suspect The US and Russia will be teaming up to fight ISIS in the near future, with Putin still at the helm. Only time will tell, though


It is always good to improve relations with anyone so long as they speak their true beliefs and intentions. I believe Putin does neither.

Everything that Putin says should be considered suspect if not an outright lie.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You typically don't make your points well. If you did, I wouldn't object.
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, it takes me about 30 seconds to reply. That's about all it's worth!




I make my points very well. You just don't happen to like them. So like a moth to a flame or perhaps flies to ****, you always seem to be compelled to respond. Whatever. I'm not posting things to please you or your preconception of a post on a forum should be. As long as it's about American Politics, it's fair game for this thread. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Looks like "blind trust" doesn't mean the same to President-elect Trump as it means to the rest of us. 



















http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58309ad8e4b058ce7aab78fe?


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## eMacMan

> I didn't know that US cities have any authority or even participate in the process when it comes to the implementation of immigration regulations, they certainly don't in Canada. A link to relevant documentation would be helpful on this point.


Individual municipalities do determine how to allocate police resources. For example Denver considers the traffic enforcement cash cow to be the most important function of their Police force. I once witnessed a pair of Denver cops happily ticketing rush hour drivers who moved into the bus lane to get around a stalled vehicle. It never occurred to them to get a tow truck in to remove the obstacle. Long and short a Denver cop is very unlikely to waste his time trying to determine whether or not someone being ticketed for a broken tail light should also be questioned as to his citizenship status. It does not offer any fiscal return.

OTOH Phoenix, AZ does exactly that, going as far as pulling over someone they merely suspect of being illegal, even if they have no other reason.


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> *Individual municipalities do determine how to allocate police resources.* For example Denver considers the traffic enforcement cash cow to be the most important function of their Police force. I once witnessed a pair of Denver cops happily ticketing rush hour drivers who moved into the bus lane to get around a stalled vehicle. It never occurred to them to get a tow truck in to remove the obstacle. Long and short a Denver cop is very unlikely to waste his time trying to determine whether or not someone being ticketed for a broken tail light should also be questioned as to his citizenship status. It does not offer any fiscal return.
> 
> OTOH Phoenix, AZ does exactly that, going as far as pulling over someone they merely suspect of being illegal, even if they have no other reason.


Yes, that is true when it comes to local police in metropolitan areas and even some medium sized towns. Not necessarily true when it comes to rural areas or small towns. Then it resorts to provincial police or even the RCMP in Canada. I suspect it is similar in the US.

I really do not see the point in the rest of your post or the connection that you are trying to make regarding immigration policies.

Maybe you could elaborate further so that I can see your point of view and what you are talking about.


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## Macfury

If you made them well, I would probably not respond in many cases--whether I liked them or not.

I think the fly to **** analogy works here.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I make my points very well. You just don't happen to like them. So like a moth to a flame or perhaps flies to ****, you always seem to be compelled to respond. Whatever. I'm not posting things to please you or your preconception of a post on a forum should be. As long as it's about American Politics, it's fair game for this thread.


----------



## CubaMark

*Yup, pretty much how we expect it's going to be....* 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUWSLlz0Fdo


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## Macfury

This video is not available in my country.



CubaMark said:


> *Yup, pretty much how we expect it's going to be....*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUWSLlz0Fdo


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Try this one before it's pulled.

https://youtu.be/ubmZ_Bx4zjM


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Exactly. This is what the Democrat Party was discussing in the e-mails revealed by WikiLeaks:



> And as I've mentioned, *we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. *The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking - and not just poll driven, demographically-inspired messaging.


And look at the intolerance toward people who voted for Trump--they are being treated like second-class citizens. 



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## SINC

US demonstrations against Trump are one thing, but they are at least Americans demonstrating against themselves or their system.

I draw the line at the idiots in Canada, assuming they are citizens, who demonstrate against Trump here on our home soil. They are the very worst of the worst. An embarrassment to us all for interfering in the due process of an American election with opinions that neither matter, nor hold any weight. I would go so far as to say that they embarrass 99.9% of Canadians who recognize Americans right to elect whomever they so choose.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> ....An embarrassment to us all for interfering in the due process of an American election with opinions that neither matter, nor hold any weight. I would go so far as to say that they embarrass 99.9% of Canadians who recognize Americans right to elect whomever they so choose.


I agree that Canadian opinions and demonstrations in Canada matter very little in the grand scheme of things.

But.

It's not difficult to understand the need of people to express their concerns in whichever way they can, particularly when we're talking about the 800-lb gorilla that lives to our south, which has an undue influence on the turning of the world. It's a country that has more than 800 military bases spread out across 70 countries, among other influences.


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## Aurora

I'm with you 100% Sinc.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Exactly. This is what the Democrat Party was discussing in the e-mails revealed by WikiLeaks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And look at the intolerance toward people who voted for Trump--they are being treated like second-class citizens.



Perhaps you're right. The members of the Nazi party were probably also quite pleasant at dinner parties


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> US demonstrations against Trump are one thing, but they are at least Americans demonstrating against themselves or their system.
> 
> 
> 
> I draw the line at the idiots in Canada, assuming they are citizens, who demonstrate against Trump here on our home soil. They are the very worst of the worst. An embarrassment to us all for interfering in the due process of an American election with opinions that neither matter, nor hold any weight. I would go so far as to say that they embarrass 99.9% of Canadians who recognize Americans right to elect whomever they so choose.



You have examples of these Canadian demonstrations against Trump, Don? 


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Yup, pretty much how we expect it's going to be....*


Man, that's some heavy-handed material. I know it's live but I've rarely seen so many SNL actors blow their lines in one sketch.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You have examples of these Canadian demonstrations against Trump, Don?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hundreds of protesters march against Trump in Toronto - Toronto - CBC News


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You have examples of these Canadian demonstrations against Trump, Don?


As Macfury pointed out, there is no shortage of demonstrations by these idiots.

Hundreds join anti-Trump protest in Vancouver - British Columbia - CBC News


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## Freddie_Biff

Trump is current down by $1.7 million votes in the popular vote. What a Loser. 



















http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ote_lead_increases_to_almost_1_7_million.html


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is current down by $1.7 million votes in the popular vote. What a Loser.


On the contrary. President-Elect Trump won the election deploying his resources where they were most required to win. As he said, if he had wanted to take the popular vote, he would have spent more time in other states. 

Never heard Hillary say she was trying to win a plurality of votes in California so she could get ahead in the popular vote, but if that was her game to win the presidency, she doesn't deserve to be president.

Did you use a dollar sign in "$1.7 million" because Hillary purchased many of those votes?

(Would be nice if you stopped taking those gigantic screen shots on your phone. A link would be much better.)


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## Macfury

One thing for sure, with all of these paid protesters hitting American streets, Trump can already take credit for creating thousands of jobs.


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## FeXL

Repeat after me: President Trump. President Trump. President Trump.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is current down by $1.7 million votes in the popular vote. What a Loser.


----------



## FeXL

And, we'd like to keep it that way.

But you can 'see' Canada from here...


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## FeXL

Yep.

BREAKING NEWS - Cleveland Indians win World Series


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## Macfury

Keep repeating after me FeXL: "Madam President, Madam President..."


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Too bad this hasn't happened in Sherwood Park. Yet...

California history teacher suspended for comparing Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler



> A Mountain View, Calif., history teacher has been suspended for comparing Republican President-elect Donald Trump to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler in a post-election history lesson.


Oh, yes. Couched in parallels that are so vague, any leader over the course of the last millenium would qualify. Except for one, tiny, small, insignificant, niggling detail that all these armchair Prog historians gloss over: Hitler disarmed the populace first. Just like Bill's Wife wanted to. And completely unlike Trump.

However, even if Trump is Hitler incarnate <snort>, the currently well-armed populace will not let him progress far. And, you fearful Progs can help!

Here's a little article that will help you sleep at night:

A Handy Guide For Liberals Who Are Suddenly Interested In Gun Ownership



> Judging by your social media over the last few days many liberals have been utterly terrified that your government might turn tyrannical or that evil people will now be emboldened to hurt you. I’m going to let you in on a little thing the other half of the country is familiar with to keep those unlikely, yet catastrophic, events from happening.
> 
> And that my lefty friends, is 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Having just gone through a war against a tyrannical government, the Founders understood that governments can go bad, so they made sure to note our God given right (or we’ll say naturally occurring right, since a bunch of you are atheists) to keep and bear arms in order to defend ourselves. The 2nd Amendment isn’t about hunting or “sporting purposes”, it’s about having weapons that you can fight with. As an added bonus, being able to protect yourself from a tyrannical government means that you’re a lot better equipped to deal with any common criminal who decides to hurt you.
> Before I get into the details about how to enjoy your newly discovered 2nd Amendment rights, let me just say that I get you’re sad, angry, bitter, and fearful. But just like my people over the last few elections, you’ll get over it. The really hyperbolic freak outs about Literally Hitler make you sound just like the Alex Jones crowd worried that Obama was going to herd Christians into FEMA camps last time. So take a deep breath and relax. Your friends and neighbors are the same as they were last week. The vast majority weren’t voting because racism, they voted against the status quo and a really unlikable Democrat. And no, they aren’t going to round you up into cattle cars.
> 
> But in the off chance they do, let’s get you prepared!


Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I haven't seen the Democrats this mad since we freed the slaves!


----------



## CubaMark

*Alt-Right Exults in Donald Trump’s Election With a Salute: ‘Heil Victory’*










By the time Richard B. Spencer, the leading ideologue of the alt-right movement and the final speaker of the night, rose to address a gathering of his followers on Saturday, the crowd was restless.

In 11 hours of speeches and panel discussions in a federal building named after Ronald Reagan a few blocks from the White House, a succession of speakers had laid out a harsh vision for the future, but had denounced violence and said that Hispanic citizens and black Americans had nothing to fear. Earlier in the day, Mr. Spencer himself had urged the group to start acting less like an underground organization and more like the establishment.

* * *​
As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back.

* * *​
...as the night wore on and most reporters had gone home, the language changed.

Mr. Spencer’s after-dinner speech began with a polemic against the “mainstream media,” before he briefly paused. “Perhaps we should refer to them in the original German?” he said.

The audience immediately screamed back, “Lügenpresse,” reviving a Nazi-era word that means “lying press.”

* * *​
Mr. Trump’s election, Mr. Spencer said, was “the victory of will,” a phrase that echoed the title of the most famous Nazi-era propaganda film. But Mr. Spencer then mentioned, with a smile, Theodor Herzl, the Zionist leader who advocated a Jewish homeland in Israel, quoting his famous pronouncement, “If we will it, it is no dream.”

* * *​
“America was, until this last generation, a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Mr. Spencer thundered. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”

But the white race, he added, is “a race that travels forever on an upward path.”

“To be white is to be a creator, an explorer, a conqueror,” he said.​(NYT)​


----------



## Macfury

You can never account for the nut cases who follow either the Democrars or Republicans... it's a big country. Funny thing is that the NYT never bothered reporting on the nutty Dem sycophants.


----------



## eMacMan

That time of year again. Personally I am thankful the presidential erection is over.


----------



## Macfury

Unhinged Democrats are making death threats to Electoral College members:

Death threats, hate mail won’t sway county Electoral College voters

Texas electoral college member harassed for backing Trump | KXAN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Alt-Right Exults in Donald Trump’s Election With a Salute: ‘Heil Victory’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the time Richard B. Spencer, the leading ideologue of the alt-right movement and the final speaker of the night, rose to address a gathering of his followers on Saturday, the crowd was restless.
> 
> In 11 hours of speeches and panel discussions in a federal building named after Ronald Reagan a few blocks from the White House, a succession of speakers had laid out a harsh vision for the future, but had denounced violence and said that Hispanic citizens and black Americans had nothing to fear. Earlier in the day, Mr. Spencer himself had urged the group to start acting less like an underground organization and more like the establishment.
> 
> * * *​
> As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back.
> 
> * * *​
> ...as the night wore on and most reporters had gone home, the language changed.
> 
> Mr. Spencer’s after-dinner speech began with a polemic against the “mainstream media,” before he briefly paused. “Perhaps we should refer to them in the original German?” he said.
> 
> The audience immediately screamed back, “Lügenpresse,” reviving a Nazi-era word that means “lying press.”
> 
> * * *​
> Mr. Trump’s election, Mr. Spencer said, was “the victory of will,” a phrase that echoed the title of the most famous Nazi-era propaganda film. But Mr. Spencer then mentioned, with a smile, Theodor Herzl, the Zionist leader who advocated a Jewish homeland in Israel, quoting his famous pronouncement, “If we will it, it is no dream.”
> 
> * * *​
> “America was, until this last generation, a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Mr. Spencer thundered. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”
> 
> But the white race, he added, is “a race that travels forever on an upward path.”
> 
> “To be white is to be a creator, an explorer, a conqueror,” he said.​(NYT)​


Reminds me of reading about and watching the news clips of the Nazi Bund meetings just before the war. tptptptpXX)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gU9op16rjQ[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> That time of year again. Personally I am thankful the presidential erection is over.
> 
> View attachment 73410















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## Macfury

Yep, they're taking the jobs of First Nations' people too.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The numbers don't lie.











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## Macfury

George Takei played a minor character on _Star Trek_. This is who you are quoting.


----------



## macintosh doctor

every time you buy something - it is buyer beware - no one tied them down and didn't let them leave the room before signing up.. 
seriously this blue ribbon society with safety pins is killing me.. i can't believe how stupid people are and always expect a parachute for when they do stupid things in life.. 

I am surprised no sue because they lost in the stock market yet.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> George Takei played a minor character on _Star Trek_. This is who you are quoting.



Anyone can do the math, even retired Japanese actors. You have something against George Takei? 


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## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> every time you buy something - it is buyer beware - no one tied them down and didn't let them leave the room before signing up..
> 
> seriously this blue ribbon society with safety pins is killing me.. i can't believe how stupid people are and always expect a parachute for when they do stupid things in life..
> 
> 
> 
> I am surprised no sue because they lost in the stock market yet.



How do you feel about misrepresentation? False advertising? Bait and switch? There are a number of practices that are illegal. Should we just ignore them? 

If Trump U perpetrates fraud, should it not be held liable for the laws it breaks? 


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## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you feel about misrepresentation? False advertising? Bait and switch? There are a number of practices that are illegal. Should we just ignore them?
> 
> If Trump U perpetrates fraud, should it not be held liable for the laws it breaks?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you just described the stock market. 
most of the bankers and those on wall street got bonuses. .


----------



## Macfury

Why do you need Sulu to say that for you?

Besides, Trump was not found guilty. He just settled so that he could concentrate on undoing the Obama legacy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anyone can do the math, even retired Japanese actors. You have something against George Takei?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why do you need Sulu to say that for you?
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, Trump was not found guilty. He just settled so that he could concentrate on undoing the Obama legacy.



What have you got against George Takei, for the second time? He is popular on Facebook, and haven't dealt with Japanese internment with his own family during WWII, his words have resonance. Trump settled because Trump is guilty and he is a Loser, although he certainly could have lost far more. If he was in the right, then he should have not settled at all. He is a fraud, and the fact that you don't see it is rather telling. 


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## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> you just described the stock market.
> 
> most of the bankers and those on wall street got bonuses. .




Perhaps, but they weren't promising diplomas or degrees. Big difference.


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## Macfury

Was there a verdict of guilt?

Nothing against Mr. Sulu--it's just that his minor celebrity adds no weight to his words.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What have you got against George Takei, for the second time? He is popular on Facebook, and haven't dealt with Japanese internment with his own family during WWII, his words have resonance. Trump settled because Trump is guilty and he is a Loser, although he certainly could have lost far more. If he was in the right, then he should have not settled at all. He is a fraud, and the fact that you don't see it is rather telling.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

So now the usual suspects in here have provided us with yet another criminal act that is permissible in *Donald Trump's Great New America™*... Get out there and commit as much fraud as you like, folks, because Donnie says it's A-Okay!


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> So now the usual suspects in here have provided us with yet another criminal act that is permissible in *Donald Trump's Great New America™*... Get out there and commit as much fraud as you like, folks, because Donnie says it's A-Okay!


Which criminal act?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> So now the usual suspects in here have provided us with yet another criminal act that is permissible in *Donald Trump's Great New America*... Get out there and commit as much fraud as you like, folks, because Donnie says it's A-Okay!



Hold on there. Donnie only says it's okay....for him. If you dare even make fun of him on a satirical show like SNL, he gets quite butthurt and wants it canceled. 


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## Macfury

Does he want it canceled? I thought he just said it was overrated and not funny.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hold on there. Donnie only says it's okay....for him. If you dare even make fun of him on a satirical show like SNL, he gets quite butthurt and wants it canceled.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Does he want it canceled? I thought he just said it was overrated and not funny.













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## Macfury

That's more of an opinion than a demand to have it canceled. I'd say Saturday Night Live has overstayed its welcome by about 20 years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

As far as the alt-right and its influence on the American political scenes Trump's presidential win, let me help connect the dots for you. 



> At an Alt-Right conference being held, of all places, in a federal building in Washington D.C., Spencer didn't even attempt to hide his bigotry and anti-Semitism.
> 
> According to the NY Times, He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the "children of the sun," a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were "awakening to their own identity."
> 
> As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, "Heil the people! Heil victory," the room shouted it back.












http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...annon-lands-white-house-job-article-1.2882385


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## Macfury

This was already posted here a day ago. Follow the links back: Bannon does not define alt-right as racist and its ideology is so diffuse it would be hard to make that stick to him. Just as only some Democrats are threatening to kill members of the Electoral College, only some people who call themselves alt-right are racist. The article is suggesting links to Bannon were none exist.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This was already posted here a day ago. Follow the links back: Bannon does not define alt-right as racist and its ideology is so diffuse it would be hard to make that stick to him. Just as only some Democrats are threatening to kill members of the Electoral College, only some people who call themselves alt-right are racist. The article is suggesting links to Bannon were none exist.



Believe what you want to believe, Macfury. I do not seek your approval nor do I believe you can be persuaded due to....how you call? Confirmation bias. If you can't see the signs, you're just joy looking hard enough. Peace out. Tomorrow's a new day.


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## Dr.G.

Fine words then and now ............ especially now. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## SINC

Hollow words from the most hated PM ever to ruin western Canada and his son may usurp his NEP damage to the country with carbon taxes.


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## Macfury

Just "joy looking" I guess.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Believe what you want to believe, Macfury. I do not seek your approval nor do I believe you can be persuaded due to....how you call? Confirmation bias. If you can't see the signs, you're just joy looking hard enough. Peace out. Tomorrow's a new day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

SINC said:


> Hollow words from the most hated PM ever to ruin western Canada and his son may usurp his NEP damage to the country with carbon taxes.


Agreed. Trudeau valued all people equally—as long as they were socialists from central Canada. I remember being appalled at his hatred for Alberta and I was just a kid at the time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just "joy looking" I guess.




Yes, but are you joy looking hard enough? That's the question. 


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## Macfury

Maybe we should join the Joy Luck Club!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes, but are you joy looking hard enough? That's the question.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

26 seconds: The history behind Zapruder's JFK assassination film - Home | The Current with Anna Maria Tremonti | CBC Radio

Very interesting .............. especially today. I was in grade 10 math class when we received the JFK news.


----------



## ehMax

SINC said:


> Hollow words from the most hated PM ever to ruin western Canada and his son may usurp his NEP damage to the country with carbon taxes.


Most hated? Just among Conservatives. Overall impressions of Canadian Prime Ministers based on research by Abacus Data:


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## SINC

ehMax said:


> Most hated? Just among Conservatives.


I suspect your experience at living in western Canada limits your understanding of the deep wound that fool left on us. Poll or no poll nationally, he was and remains much hated west of Ontario. One doesn't forget a kick in the nuts easily.


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## ehMax

SINC said:


> I suspect your experience at living in western Canada limits your understanding of the deep wound that fool left on us. Poll or no poll nationally, he was and remains much hated west of Ontario. One doesn't forget a kick in the nuts easily.


I'm quite familiar with the National Energy Program and people in Alberta being upset about it. The west being upset about oil prices is nothing new. 

No matter which study or poll you look at, Trudeau is consistently one of the highest rated prime ministers. (Both Trudeau's).


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> I'm quite familiar with the National Energy Program and people in Alberta being upset about it. The west being upset about oil prices is nothing new.
> 
> No matter which study or poll you look at, Trudeau is consistently one of the highest rated prime ministers. (Both Trudeau's).


The rest of Canada liked the way that Trudeau stuck it to the West. The price of oil is not an issue when the market dictates it. It is when a Prime Minister makes policy that destroys the economy of one province.

However people choose to adjust their rose-coloured glasses, in terms of achievements and economic performance, Pierre blows biscuits.

No fair including Justin until after he is through taking selfies on the public dime.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> Most hated? Just among Conservatives. Overall impressions of Canadian Prime Ministers based on research by Abacus Data:



Just goes to show; people believe what they want to believe. 


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## Rps

ehMax said:


> Most hated? Just among Conservatives. Overall impressions of Canadian Prime Ministers based on research by Abacus Data:


What no Kim Campbell?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> What no Kim Campbell?


Weird methodology covering only "the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster."


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## SINC

ehMax said:


> I'm quite familiar with the National Energy Program and people in Alberta being upset about it. The west being upset about oil prices is nothing new.
> 
> No matter which study or poll you look at, Trudeau is consistently one of the highest rated prime ministers. (Both Trudeau's).


Not out here they're not. If you understood completely, you would not be so quick to make false judgment about the memory of westerners.


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## ehMax

SINC said:


> Not out here they're not. If you understood completely, you would not be so quick to make false judgment about the memory of westerners.


I'm not making any judgement about memory of westerners. Wow, that's a stretch.

You stated, "Hollow words from the most hated PM ever". That's simply not true. No matter what research you look at, he is not even close to being the most hated PM ever, he usually looked at most favourably. Maybe for a very specific subset of just conservatives, or just westerners, but not overall. But why let facts get in the way of a good rant.


----------



## SINC

ehMax said:


> I'm not making any judgement about memory of westerners. Wow, that's a stretch.
> 
> You stated, "Hollow words from the most hated PM ever". That's simply not true. No matter what research you look at, he is not even close to being the most hated PM ever, he usually looked at most favourably. Maybe for a very specific subset of just conservatives, or just westerners, but not overall. But why let facts get in the way of a good rant.


Once again you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is just Conservatives. I lived it and everyone out here hated him and what he did with the NEP. Even his own party members.


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> Weird methodology covering only "the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster."


Not that wierd. 

"In our latest poll we asked how people felt about the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster. The results provide some context in which to assess feelings about the two most recen telection winners, Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper, and also tell us something about how reputations might shift with the passage of time and how partisanship affects our views of prime ministers."

There's quite a few similar research studies, some that go back to all prime ministers. When you look at all of them with results across the board, Trudeau Sr. is always near the top. Sorry, but just the way it is. There may be regional and other breakdowns, but when you take a cross-sampling of all Canadians, the results are very clear.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> What no Kim Campbell?




Good ol' Kimmy! I believe this chart has only Prime Ministers who were elected, as opposed to those who inherited the job. Hence, no John Turner either. 


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## ehMax

SINC said:


> Once again you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is just Conservatives. I lived it and everyone out here hated him and what he did with the NEP. Even his own party members.


Actually, I do know what I'm talking about SINC. I understand studies. I can read and comprehend studies much better than you apparantly. You're just geting hot under the collar because the studies go against your heated emotions. 

I know lots of westerners hated him. I know you are a westerner. He probably is the most hated PM around your parts, so you can say, "Around here, he was the most hated PM". But the most hated PM in general, overall, across the whole of Canada of which he was PM? 

Not a chance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> I'm not making any judgement about memory of westerners. Wow, that's a stretch.
> 
> 
> 
> You stated, "Hollow words from the most hated PM ever". That's simply not true. No matter what research you look at, he is not even close to being the most hated PM ever, he usually looked at most favourably. Maybe for a very specific subset of just conservatives, or just westerners, but not overall. But why let facts get in the way of a good rant.



 ^^^
Listen, John, I've been trying to explain for quite some time that there's more to Canada and Alberta than what gets represented by the small but vocal subset that makes up this forum, all to no avail. Trudeau was well regarded in most of Canada, and the younger one who is now in charge makes a great impression too, particularly among Americans who look beyond their own borders for a country that "gets it." But one has to look beyond their own....what's it called? Confirmation Bias....to see what else is really going on in the world.


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## Macfury

Weird in that it chose that methodology to get around rating Kim Campbell and John Turner.



ehMax said:


> Not that wierd.
> 
> "In our latest poll we asked how people felt about the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster. The results provide some context in which to assess feelings about the two most recen telection winners, Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper, and also tell us something about how reputations might shift with the passage of time and how partisanship affects our views of prime ministers."
> 
> There's quite a few similar research studies, some that go back to all prime ministers. When you look at all of them with results across the board, Trudeau Sr. is always near the top. Sorry, but just the way it is. There may be regional and other breakdowns, but when you take a cross-sampling of all Canadians, the results are very clear.


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> Actually, I do know what I'm talking about SINC. I understand studies. I can read and comI know you are a westerner. He probably is the most hated PM around your parts, so you can say, "Around here, he was the most hated PM".


That's what SINC is saying.


----------



## Macfury

They like his selfies-they know nothing else beyond that! They probably can't even name the capital of Canada!



Freddie_Biff said:


> ^^^
> Listen, John, I've been trying to explain for quite some time that there's more to Canada and Alberta than what gets represented by the small but vocal subset that makes up this forum, all to no avail. Trudeau was well regarded in most of Canada, and the younger one who is now in charge makes a great impression too, particularly among Americans who look beyond their own borders for a country that "gets it." But one has to look beyond their own....what's it called? Confirmation Bias....to see what else is really going on in the world.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They like his selfies-they know nothing else beyond that! They probably can't even name the capital of Canada!



Boy you make some gargantuan assumptions. Do you ever consider that there are a vast number of Canadians who do not see Canada the way that you do? For whom Trudeau is a hero? According to the chart, in fact, those people vastly outnumber those with your mindset and what constitutes a great Canadian Prime Minister. 


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## ehMax

Macfury said:


> That's what SINC is saying.


Not really. He said,


> Hollow words from the most hated PM ever to ruin western Canada and his son may usurp his NEP damage to the country with carbon taxes.


HUGE stretch to interpret that sentence means he is the most hated PM just from the perspective of Westerners, but whatever. 

Then he said,


> Once again you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is just Conservatives.


Well, I never said it was just conservatives, I've repeated several times, I'm talking overall as PM across Canada, and the FACT that Trudeua has one of the highest positive ratings for all PM. That's a fact. And if we just look at Conservatives, yes.. you can see that indeed is where most the of the "hatred" comes from. (A party, that only represented 31% of all votes last election)


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> Most hated? Just among Conservatives. Overall impressions of Canadian Prime Ministers based on research by Abacus Data:


Well that graph certainly does not reflect election results and therefore is basically meaningless except to those who have swallowed the red pill.

Most likely very few of those polled even know who Joe Clarke or Brian Mulroney were or at least alive and aware of the issues when they were PM and they just support the Trudeau name because it is familiar and JT is in the news.

Let me put this as plainly as possible... The poll has no meaning at all ZERO, NADA REIN!!


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> They like his selfies-they know nothing else beyond that! They probably can't even name the capital of Canada!


The whole "selfie" attack is so tired and so meaningless. I took a selfie with Harper once. He didn't seem to mind.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> Well that graph certainly does not reflect election results and therefore is basically meaningless except to those who have swallowed the red pill.
> 
> Let me put this as plainly as possible... The poll has no meaning at all ZERO, NADA REIN!!


:lmao::lmao::lmao: That's hilarious. A random sample of panelists was invited to complete the survey from a large representative panel of over 400,000 Canadians. The margin of error for a comparable probability-based random sample of the same size is +/- 2.6%, 19 times out of 20. The data were weighted according to census data to ensure that the sample matched Canada's population according to age, gender, educational attainment, and region.

You're right, it doesn't reflect the election, it reflects "how people felt about the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster". 

If you take no meaning from that at all... well, I can't help you. Go with your gut, emotions, and unvalidated opinion, that's always more accurate. :clap::lmao:


----------



## ehMax

Freddie_Biff said:


> But one has to look beyond their own....what's it called? Confirmation Bias....to see what else is really going on in the world.


This thread would provide thousands of examples for an Interpersonal Communications or Organizational Behaviour course. Confimation Bias, Logical Fallacies, Perceptual Errors, Selective Perception, Halo Effect, Stereotyping... But that's all that silly book learnen from those academics and elitist :lmao:


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> :lmao::lmao::lmao: That's hilarious. A random sample of panelists was invited to complete the survey from a large representative panel of over 400,000 Canadians. The margin of error for a comparable probability-based random sample of the same size is +/- 2.6%, 19 times out of 20. The data were weighted according to census data to ensure that the sample matched Canada's population according to age, gender, educational attainment, and region.
> 
> You're right, it doesn't reflect the election, it reflects "how people felt about the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster".
> 
> If you take no meaning from that at all... well, I can't help you. Go with your gut, emotions, and *unvalidated *opinion, that's always more accurate. :clap::lmao:


Me thinks you do protest too much and rely on statistics too much. The ONLY poll that matters is on election day. So try to discredit me all you like, I have over a decade of direct political experience that you do not have and will take no lessons from you a failed forum Mayor who led this forum to near death and wants to try can come back as just a "member". Pathetic... take your pills, go to bed and just leave this place alone, like you left before. Just be like Nixon and resign without trying to come back.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> Me thinks you do protest too much and rely on statistics too much. The ONLY poll that matters is on election day. So try to discredit me all you like, I have over a decade of direct political experience that you do not have and will take no lessons from you a failed forum Mayor who led this forum to near death and wants to try can come back as just a "member". Pathetic... take your pills, go to bed and just leave this place alone, like you left it before. We would all be better off for it.


:lmao: Hey, when you don't have an argument, start attacking the person. :clap:

I do like facts and accuracy of information... you got me there.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> This thread would provide thousands of examples for an Interpersonal Communications or Organizational Behaviour course. Confimation Bias, Logical Fallacies, Perceptual Errors, Selective Perception, Halo Effect, Stereotyping... But that's all that silly book learnen from those academics and elitist :lmao:



Does it make you shake your head sometimes at what you started so long ago? 



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## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Me thinks you do protest too much and rely on statistics too much. The ONLY poll that matters is on election day. So try to discredit me all you like, I have over a decade of direct political experience that you do not have and will take no lessons from you a failed forum Mayor who led this forum to near death and wants to try can come back as just a "member". Pathetic... take your pills, go to bed and just leave this place alone, like you left before. Just be like Nixon and resign without trying to come back.



Well that was uncalled for. 


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## screature

ehMax said:


> :lmao: Hey, when you don't have an argument, start attacking the person. :clap:
> 
> I do like facts and accuracy of information... you got me there.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Does it make you shake your head sometimes at what you started so long ago?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that was uncalled for.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope it was called for, the previous Dictator of this place insulted me without provocation. I simply called into question his supposed facts by repudiating them with actual facts.

Then he proceeded to demean me in many ways, so you get what you give. Something he has never seemed to understand and still has not learned.

Yes he started this place and for that he deserves respect and I have given it to him, many, many times. But he also abandoned the place that he created because it was no longer of value to him and we have survived and kept going without him for years now.

If he comes back here as a respectful common member I have no problem with him commenting here but when he continues on with his "holier than thou" ways when he is no longer the Mayor and disrespects me I have no time for him or his comments.

Just for the EXmayor:

The results of a poll, any poll, taken by any polling company are not facts, merely opinion. As I said the results of an election are fact. Have you been following the numerous failings of pollsters worldwide lately, if not you should.


----------



## ehMax

Freddie_Biff said:


> Does it make you shake your head sometimes at what you started so long ago?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that was uncalled for.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People attacking me doesn't bother me, it makes me laugh. I love good, sound arguments from people backed up with some kind of legitimate evidence, right or left. Even ones personal experiences with examples are interesting and relevant. I have no problems at all being wrong and changing my perception based on new accurate information. I love geting down to the heart of issues with accuracy and evidence. 

Right wing or left wing, governments usually don't make too many big decisions without economists getting into very advanced statistics and mathematical models. So do business people. Scientists. Canada has gotten very good at handling the economy with fiscal and monetary policy. Both right and left. The people who work in government love stats.


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> People attacking me doesn't bother me, it makes me laugh. I love good, sound arguments from people backed up with some kind of legitimate evidence, right or left. Even ones personal experiences with examples are interesting and relevant. I have no problems at all being wrong and changing my perception based on new accurate information. I love geting down to the heart of issues with accuracy and evidence.
> 
> Right wing or left wing, governments usually don't make too many big decisions without economists getting into very advanced statistics and mathematical models. So do business people. Scientists. Canada has gotten very good at handling the economy with fiscal and monetary policy. Both right and left. The people who work in government love stats.


Ok, so I will dial it back a notch from what you just did to me...

:lmao:

Statistics and polls are not even remotely the same thing and that you think that they are just negates most of what you just said as being a credible statement.

When you understand the difference we can talk.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Once again you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is just Conservatives. I lived it and everyone out here hated him and what he did with the NEP. Even his own party members.


Yupper! Trudeau was hated almost as much a Lyin' Brian....but maybe he edges out Brian. I would say the NEP almost killed off Alberta's oil industry and unless you lived there ( i have many family members in Alberta ) you are disconnected from their reality. The NEP was so good it was scrapped, but not after much damage to the province.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> Nope it was called for, the previous Dictator of this place insulted me without provocation. I simply called into question his supposed facts by repudiating them with actual facts.
> 
> Then he proceeded to demean me in many ways, so you get what you give. Something he has never seemed to understand and still has not learned.
> 
> Yes he started this place and for that he deserves respect and I have given it to him, many, many times. But he also abandoned the place that he created because it was no longer of value to him and we have survived and kept going without him for years now.
> 
> If he comes back here as a respectful common member I have no problem with him commenting here but when he continues on with his "holier than thou" ways when he is no longer the Mayor and disrespects me I have no time for him or his comments.
> 
> Just for the EXmayor:
> 
> The results of a poll, any poll, taken by any polling company are not facts, merely opinion. As I said the results of an election are fact. Have you been following the numerous failings of pollsters worldwide lately, if not you should.


I insulted you "without provacation" in "many ways"? :lmao: Ok then. 

When adults are discussing people's opinion of a past prime ministers, than a very extensive and accurate study as to people's opinions of past Canadians on prime ministers is kind of relevant. 

If you only want to look at elections, Trudeau was elected to 4 terms, 3 of which with massive majorities. The one term he lost, he lost with more actual votes. So 4 terms of re-election would kind of go against the notion that he is the most hated prime minister ever. 

It's kind of stupid in my opinion, to hate a prime minister. Even as a Liberal, I didn't hate Harper. I even took a selfie with him, which he didn't seem to mind at all.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> Ok, so I will dial it back a notch from what you just did to me...
> 
> :lmao:
> 
> Statistics and polls are not even remotely the same thing and that you think that they are just negates most of what you just said as being a credible statement.
> 
> When you understand the difference we can talk.


I've studied research for several years now. Don't try to school me on definitions. A poll is one form of research. Any form of research produces stats. The stats that the research did in the above study were not biased. It's just one of several studies that show sentiment towards previous prime ministers, and they all reflect similar outcomes nationally and when segmented by party and region. Overall, Trudeua Sr was looked upon in high regard. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I assure you its not an attack on you. 

As for the polls with Trump, a collection of the most popular polls going into the last moments showed Clinton leading in the popular vote by 0.3 percentage point. The polling average for the popular vote was within a three percentage point margin of error. It was very close except for many pundits not seeing Trump pickup several key states. He still lost on popular vote (I'm not complaining, that's just how it worked). 

Overall, research based on proven methodoligies is very accurate.


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> *I insulted you "without provocation" in "many ways"? :lmao: Ok then. *
> 
> *When adults* are discussing people's opinion of a past prime ministers, then (sic) a very extensive and accurate study as to people's opinions of past Canadians on prime ministers is kind of relevant.
> 
> If you only want to look at elections, Trudeau was elected to 4 terms, 3 of which with massive majorities. The one term he lost, he lost with more actual votes. So 4 terms of re-election would kind of go against the notion that he is the most hated prime minister ever.
> 
> It's kind of stupid in my opinion, to hate a prime minister. Even as a Liberal, I didn't hate Harper. I even took a selfie with him, which he didn't seem to mind at all.


There you go again.

Yes you did. I was addressing the chart that you posted, I never made any condescending remarks or emoticons to you,

You cannot just expect to come here as a regular citizen without realizing that people remember you and your ways of shutting down conversation whenever it suited you. I for one will not forget the conversations that you shut down willy nilly like a dictator.

Be respectful and polite and than I have no problem, but be condescending and demeaning, like you were, then I have a problem.

But see now that this place is longer under *your* thumb people can say whatever they like and then it is up to the community to decide and self police.


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> The whole "selfie" attack is so tired and so meaningless. I took a selfie with Harper once. He didn't seem to mind.


The selfies are meaningless...but that seems to be his main focus. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful. Justin's do-nothing attitude has been a blessing!


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> I've studied research for several years now. Don't try to school me on definitions. A poll is one form of research. *Any form of research produces stats.* The stats that the research did in the above study were not biased. It's just one of several studies that show sentiment towards previous prime ministers, and they all reflect similar outcomes nationally and when segmented by party and region. Overall, Trudeua Sr was looked upon in high regard. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I assure you its not an attack on you.
> 
> As for the polls with Trump, a collection of the most popular polls going into the last moments showed Clinton leading in the popular vote by 0.3 percentage point. The polling average for the popular vote was within a three percentage point margin of error. It was very close except for many pundits not seeing Trump pickup several key states. He still lost on popular vote (I'm not complaining, that's just how it worked).
> 
> Overall, research based on proven methodoligies is very accurate.


Lol! Of course they do it does not mean that they are correct or represent a fact.

Just to be clear, you think that a poll represents facts either historical or future based?

Yes or no?


----------



## Dr.G.

I am truly saddened to see how something I posted this morning has turned into a firestorm, especially given the sentiments expressed by PM Pierre Trudeau. Like him or hate him, but his words of valuing human values such as "compassion, love and understanding" are as true today as they were back then. Had I known the anger this would have created today amongst ehMacLanders whom I like, I wish I would have kept the picture to myself. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> I do like facts and accuracy of information... you got me there.


It's just a popularity poll, which includes asking people who weren't even alive when these PMs were in power. Like voting on the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. There's no science to it.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am truly saddened to see how something I posted this morning has turned into a firestorm, especially given the sentiments expressed by PM Pierre Trudeau. Like him or hate him, but his words of valuing human values such as "compassion, love and understanding" are as true today as they were back then. Had I known the anger this would have created today amongst ehMacLanders whom I like, I wish I would have kept the picture to myself. Paix, mes amis.


Trudeau caused hardship to many of us. His soliloquies on compassion aren't going to mean much to those affected.


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> It's just a popularity poll, which includes asking people who weren't even alive when these PMs were in power. Like voting on the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. There's no science to it.


*Canada’s best prime ministers*

Maclean’s first did this survey in 1997. That year the winners included Mackenzie King in the top spot, followed by John A. Macdonald and Wilfrid Laurier. This time, we wanted to see if opinions had changed and discover how more recent prime ministers—Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin, and Stephen Harper—stack up against those who preceded them. *We had 117 responses to our survey, from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields. Their numbers included women and men from all regions of the country, and all political affiliations.*










At least I have tons of studies to backup my opinion that Trudeau was not the most hated prime minister. 

I agree, that to those who didnt' like him and were negatively affected by him, those studies won't mean much to them personally. But it's not accurate to portray him as the most hated.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> Lol! Of course they do it does not mean that they are correct or represent a fact.
> 
> Just to be clear, you think that a poll represents facts either historical or future based?
> 
> Yes or no?


A poll, done with proven methodologies, can accurately and quantifiably represent an opinion within a small margin of error. 

When talking about opinions on things, such a favourability of past prime ministers, you can measure national sentiment and segmented sentiments quite accurately. It's done every day in many different fields. 

If we're talking about specifics on Trudeau, say his economic policies, then we could talk stats of the economy. We could talk about historical decisions on fiscal and monetary policy. He most certainly made some mistakes there and depending on what region one is from, the perspectives will probably be different.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> I am truly saddened to see how something I posted this morning has turned into a firestorm, especially given the sentiments expressed by PM Pierre Trudeau. Like him or hate him, but his words of valuing human values such as "compassion, love and understanding" are as true today as they were back then. Had I known the anger this would have created today amongst ehMacLanders whom I like, I wish I would have kept the picture to myself. Paix, mes amis.


You should not take responsibility Marc it was ehMax's comments that started the ****storm...

Who even names themselves EhMax? It definitive sounds like a Roman Emperor to me.


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> A poll, done with proven methodologies, can accurately and quantifiably *represent an opinion* within a small margin of error.
> 
> When talking about opinions on things, such a favourability of past prime ministers, you can measure national sentiment and segmented sentiments quite accurately. It's done every day in many different fields.
> 
> If we're talking about specifics on Trudeau, say his economic policies, then we could talk stats of the economy. We could talk about historical decisions on fiscal and monetary policy. He most certainly made some mistakes there and depending on what region one is from, the perspectives will probably be different.


There you go, end of story. No fact.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It's just a popularity poll, which includes asking people who weren't even alive when these PMs were in power. Like voting on the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. There's no science to it.


Bang on.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> I've studied research for several years now. Don't try to school me on definitions. A poll is one form of research. Any form of research produces stats. The stats that the research did in the above study were not biased. It's just one of several studies that show sentiment towards previous prime ministers, and they all reflect similar outcomes nationally and when segmented by party and region. Overall, Trudeua Sr was looked upon in high regard. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I assure you its not an attack on you.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the polls with Trump, a collection of the most popular polls going into the last moments showed Clinton leading in the popular vote by 0.3 percentage point. The polling average for the popular vote was within a three percentage point margin of error. It was very close except for many pundits not seeing Trump pickup several key states. He still lost on popular vote (I'm not complaining, that's just how it worked).
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, research based on proven methodoligies is very accurate.



With respect to American politics, the last count I read Clinton was up about 1.7 million votes over Trump in the federal popular vote. Seems the vote may have been rigged after all. 


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## Macfury

Agreed--when you subtract the illegals who likely voted for her, the number would fall considerably.



Freddie_Biff said:


> With respect to American politics, the last count I read Clinton was up about 1.7 million votes over Trump in the federal popular vote. Seems the vote may have been rigged after all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> There you go again.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you did. I was addressing the chart that you posted, I never made any condescending remarks or emoticons to you,
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot just expect to come here as a regular citizen without realizing that people remember you and your ways of shutting down conversation whenever it suited you. I for one will not forget the conversations that you shut down willy nilly like a dictator.
> 
> 
> 
> Be respectful and polite and than I have no problem, but be condescending and demeaning, like you were, then I have a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> But see now that this place is longer under *your* thumb people can say whatever they like and then it is up to the community to decide and self police.



With all due respect, Screature, this place does not self police at all. It has become a bastion for rude insult exchanges and polarized political discussion with little attempt at actual conversation. Most forums do better with moderation because often members don't know where to draw the line. Those whom I see embracing this "self policing" concept are often also the worst offenders when it comes to the etiquette of discussion. Present company excepted, of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I am truly saddened to see how something I posted this morning has turned into a firestorm, especially given the sentiments expressed by PM Pierre Trudeau. Like him or hate him, but his words of valuing human values such as "compassion, love and understanding" are as true today as they were back then. Had I known the anger this would have created today amongst ehMacLanders whom I like, I wish I would have kept the picture to myself. Paix, mes amis.



This. And the rationale for my previous post. A little decorum would be nice. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Agreed--when you subtract the illegals who likely voted for her, the number would fall considerably.



Do you just pull these rationalizations out of your arse or do you actually have a source for your meagrely supported allegations? 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you just pull these rationalizations out of your arse or do you actually have a source for your meagrely supported allegations?


I doubt you'd be interested. You've never responded to my arguments in any reasonable way.


----------



## Macfury

You would prefer moderation, because you could sing out to punish others whenever you felt your feelings were hurt. It's just the authoritarian nature of "progressivism."



Freddie_Biff said:


> With all due respect, Screature, this place does not self police at all. It has become a bastion for rude insult exchanges and polarized political discussion with little attempt at actual conversation. Most forums do better with moderation because often members don't know where to draw the line. Those whom I see embracing this "self policing" concept are often also the worst offenders when it comes to the etiquette of discussion. Present company excepted, of course.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I doubt you'd be interested. You've never responded to my arguments in any reasonable way.



You've never presented them in any reasonable way. Invective does not persuade. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You would prefer moderation, because you could sing out to punish others whenever you felt your feelings were hurt. It's just the authoritarian nature of "progressivism."



And you would prefer to retain your assoholic demeanour. Yes, I get it. But the quality of discussion is far better and far healthier on the other forums I frequent, especially on political matters. You seem to think it is your God given right to insult people and pretend it's a dialogue. In short, you have a lot of growing up to do, mon ami. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I've seen the stultifying echo chambers you prefer, Freddie. Grow a thicker skin, mon ami.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you would prefer to retain your assoholic demeanour. Yes, I get it. But the quality of discussion is far better and far healthier on the other forums I frequent, especially on political matters. You seem to think it is your God given right to insult people and pretend it's a dialogue. In short, you have a lot of growing up to do, mon ami.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> With all due respect, Screature, t*his place does not self police at all*. It has become a bastion for rude insult exchanges and polarized political discussion with little attempt at actual conversation. *Most forums do better with moderation* because often members *don't know where to draw the line.* T*hose whom I see embracing this "self policing" concept are often also the worst offenders when it comes to the etiquette of discussion. Present company excepted, of course.
> 
> *
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course ehMac self polices itself it is just a matter of people calling out others when they feel their posts are out line. Just as you did with your previous post to me and my posts to ehMax. 

So you do not believe in freedom speech based on your post I presume?

Who chooses where the line should be drawn? Think about that for a while.

I have not posted here very often for a long time, mainly because it is just the same old same old from the usual suspects, but when ehMax made things personal, sorry like a vampire, my teeth came out and I will not apologize for that.

Of all people he should know and behave better than that.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> You should not take responsibility Marc it was ehMax's comments that started the ****storm...
> 
> Who even names themselves EhMax? It definitive sounds like a Roman Emperor to me.


I have't attacked you personally at all, I just debate ideas with valid, reputable citations and sources to back up my arguments. 



screature said:


> There you go, end of story. No fact.


That there are several reputable and accurate research studies on people's opinions of former prime ministers is a fact. That those research studies clearly show Truduea Sr. no where near the bottom of the list, but up consistently near the top is a fact. If you have any evidence to the contrary besides just saying it's so, I'd sincerely love to read it. 



screature said:


> Bang on.


I refuted that already with the study of by *Macleans* who had "117 responses to our survey, from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields. Their numbers included women and men from all regions of the country, and all political affiliations." Macleans *actually did the study back in 1997* as well, with Trudeau in 5th overall.

Here's *another study* with a large panel of historians, political scientists, economist, and former senior government officials, with Trudeau in a tie for 3rd. 

And like I pointed out the fact, Trudeau was voted in for *4 terms*, 3 with large majorities, and the only time he lost he still won the popular vote. *He won 4 terms*. Hmmm... let's try to come to a logical conclusion based on that fact. Hmmmm.


----------



## ehMax

screature said:


> I have not posted here very often for a long time, mainly because it is just the same old same old from the usual suspects, but when ehMax made things personal, sorry like a vampire, my teeth came out and I will not apologize for that.
> 
> Of all people he should know and behave better than that.


Where on earth do you get that I made things personal?  That I disagreed with your point of view? That I called your opinion unvalidated... meaning an opinion stated without data or evidence? I've said nothing of your username, your profession, or any other off-topic attacks on you as you have tried to do. Perhaps you should take Macfury's advice above.


----------



## ehMax

Alas, I'll agree to disagree on that one and move on. Feel free to get the final word in. 

Don't make me pull out my picture of me and Harper smiling together to show I'm a reasonable guy and can respect people even if they have wildly different opinions.


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> Alas, I'll agree to disagree on that one and move on. Feel free to get the final word in.
> 
> Don't make me pull out my picture of me and Harper smiling together to show I'm a reasonable guy and can respect people even if they have wildly different opinions.


I liked that picture!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've seen the stultifying echo chambers you prefer, Freddie. Grow a thicker skin, mon ami.



Stultifying echo chambers? That's quite some big words for such a small intellect. The ones I write in to have thousands of responses that are quite active. Time for Trump to go, for example. Much more active than this one. Other than that, I'm not sure which particular forums you've been creeping me on. Examples? 


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## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Of course ehMac self polices itself it is just a matter of people calling out others when they feel their posts are out line. Just as you did with your previous post to me and my posts to ehMax.
> 
> 
> 
> So you do not believe in freedom speech based on your post I presume?
> 
> 
> 
> Who chooses where the line should be drawn? Think about that for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> I have not posted here very often for a long time, mainly because it is just the same old same old from the usual suspects, but when ehMax made things personal, sorry like a vampire, my teeth came out and I will not apologize for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Of all people he should know and behave better than that.



I believe there is no freedom of speech without responsibility for the things one says. You and I have worked out a healthy communication for topics we do not agree on, but sadly, there are a number of usual suspects here who have no interest in conflict resolution. Those are the ones I lose interest in despite trying to persuade them at times. Most forums people behave well and don't step out of line out of a basic respect for one another. This forum crosses those lines far too often in my opinion, which does not lead to any kind of healthy discussion sometimes. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> And you would prefer to retain your *assoholic demeanour*. Yes, I get it. But the quality of discussion is far better and far healthier on the other forums I frequent, especially on political matters. You seem to think it is your God given right to insult people and pretend it's a dialogue. In short, you have a lot of growing up to do, mon ami.


So says the pot, calling the kettle black.


----------



## SINC

So, Obama loses again.

Judge blocks Obama administration rule extending overtime pay


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> So says the pot, calling the kettle black.



Apparently moderators are unnecessary, so why not? You know, Don, oddly you seem offended by the appearance of four letter words, but you have no issue with bullying tactics and insults otherwise. Strange.

I know of many forums where swears are quite common yet the members still treat each other with respect. Interesting, huh? 


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## Macfury

It's probably because the members don't really care what's posted. Perhaps you prefer a forum where your ideas are left unchallenged, regardless of whether they're supported by evidence.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I know of many forums where swears are quite common yet the members still treat each other with respect. Interesting, huh?


----------



## Macfury

You posted an example of one a few months back. You don't even remember?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Stultifying echo chambers? That's quite some big words for such a small intellect. The ones I write in to have thousands of responses that are quite active. Time for Trump to go, for example. Much more active than this one. Other than that, I'm not sure which particular forums you've been creeping me on. Examples?


Persuasion? You mean calling people Nazis and rapists without a shred of evidence?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Those are the ones I lose interest in despite trying to persuade them at times.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's probably because the members don't really care what's posted. Perhaps you prefer a forum where your ideas are left unchallenged, regardless of whether they're supported by evidence.



Odd that you don't even realize it, but this is not the only show in town. There are many great fora that I subscribe too. I only continue with this one because I have a soft spot for Canadians, eh. But it really does get monotonous going over the same points over and over. 











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## Freddie_Biff

From one of those "other forums" I like to hang out in; Hillary's lead over Donald in the popular vote now greater than 2 million. What a Loser that Donald. 










http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/clinton-lead-popular-vote-2016-231790


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## SINC

The Dalai Lama gets it, just like most people do. Except for the anti Trump crowd that is. Smart man.

Dalai Lama: 'I have no worries' about Trump's election | CTV News


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> The Dalai Lama gets it, just like most people do. Except for the anti Trump crowd that is. Smart man.
> 
> Dalai Lama: 'I have no worries' about Trump's election | CTV News


Sinc, it's a case of electioneering versus being elected. In the past 4 elections here, and probably in the U.S. the pundits have gotten it wrong.....me included and probably a few others on this thread.....So, what makes one think Trumps policies will be enacted per his electioneering........if the pundits screwed up the election calls why would we believe them on the effects of his polices......Hell! Trudeau the younger has already backed off much of his electioneering rantings...... Years ago the common thought was that one should never discuss religion, sex, or politics........I think they were right.


----------



## Macfury

Of course this isn't the only show in town. There are plenty of places where you can post any nonsense and nobody cares. You're always free to accuse people of being rapists and Nazis over there and reap the rich respect you deserve.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Odd that you don't even realize it, but this is not the only show in town. There are many great fora that I subscribe too. I only continue with this one because I have a soft spot for Canadians, eh. But it really does get monotonous going over the same points over and over.


----------



## Macfury

Poor Hillary didn't realize that jonesing after extra votes in California lost her the election! If you want to play in the Big Leagues, learn the rules!



Freddie_Biff said:


> From one of those "other forums" I like to hang out in; Hillary's lead over Donald in the popular vote now greater than 2 million. What a Loser that Donald.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Of course this isn't the only show in town. There are plenty of places where you can post any nonsense and nobody cares. You're always free to accuse people of being rapists and Nazis over there and reap the rich respect you deserve.













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Of course this isn't the only show in town. There are plenty of places where you can post any nonsense and nobody cares. You're always free to accuse people of being rapists and Nazis over there and reap the rich respect you deserve.


_*Well.....*_



> _When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. *They’re rapists.* And some, I assume, are good people._
> 
> — Donald Trump, announcement speech, June 2015​


*Trump Responds to Amorous Neo-Nazi Supporters: Nothing to See Here*

_“Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!” Richard Spencer, the leader of the National Policy Institute, declared before a crowd of more than 200 people that descended on Washington D.C. for the white nationalist think tank’s annual conference this past Saturday. “America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Spencer, who is credited with coining the term “alt-right” declared before the energetic audience, as dozens extended their hands in *Nazi salutes*. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”

More than two days passed before Donald Trump released a statement Monday night responding to the chilling scene, videos of which circulated on social media over the weekend. “President-elect Trump has continued to denounce racism of any kind and he was elected because he will be a leader for every American,” Bryan Lanza, a spokesperson for the incoming Trump administration, wrote, failing to specifically condemn either Spencer, the National Policy Institute, or the white supremacist movement that embraced his candidacy and is now celebrating his presidency. _​
(Vanity Fair)


----------



## Macfury

Yup. Trump wasn't fast enough--in the middle of his transition--to denounce some fringe nuts. "Progs" are in the business of denouncing on a dime--it's like passing gas to them. People like Trump are busy actually achieving things.


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> *I have't attacked you personally at all, I just debate ideas with valid, reputable citations and sources to back up my arguments. *
> 
> 
> 
> That there are several reputable and accurate research studies on people's opinions of former prime ministers is a fact. That those research studies clearly show Truduea Sr. no where near the bottom of the list, but up consistently near the top is a fact. If you have any evidence to the contrary besides just saying it's so, I'd sincerely love to read it.
> 
> 
> 
> I refuted that already with the study of by *Macleans* who had "117 responses to our survey, from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields. Their numbers included women and men from all regions of the country, and all political affiliations." Macleans *actually did the study back in 1997* as well, with Trudeau in 5th overall.
> 
> Here's *another study* with a large panel of historians, political scientists, economist, and former senior government officials, with Trudeau in a tie for 3rd.
> 
> And like I pointed out the fact, Trudeau was voted in for *4 terms*, 3 with large majorities, and the only time he lost he still won the popular vote. *He won 4 terms*. Hmmm... let's try to come to a logical conclusion based on that fact. Hmmmm.


This:



ehMax said:


> *:lmao::lmao::lmao: That's hilarious.* A random sample of panelists was invited to complete the survey from a large representative panel of over 400,000 Canadians. The margin of error for a comparable probability-based random sample of the same size is +/- 2.6%, 19 times out of 20. The data were weighted according to census data to ensure that the sample matched Canada's population according to age, gender, educational attainment, and region.
> 
> You're right, it doesn't reflect the election, it reflects "how people felt about the last 7 people who won elections and became prime minster".
> 
> *If you take no meaning from that at all... well, I can't help you. Go with your gut, emotions, and unvalidated opinion, that's always more accurate. :clap::lmao:*


You were definitely demeaning to me in your post. For the former Mayor of this place you definitely seem to have a penchant for using demeaning emoticons. You try to pretend that your words were not demeaning but taken in context with the emoticons that you used, you were definitely being demeaning to me and I am too old to take that chite from anyone.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> From one of those "other forums" I like to hang out in; Hillary's lead over Donald in the popular vote now greater than 2 million. What a Loser that Donald.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton's lead in the popular vote surpasses 2 million - POLITICO
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The popular vote does not matter. Whether you agree with it or not, the system in place worked and did its job. Now you can disagree and say the popular vote should be how Presidents are elected sure, but people only seem to whine about it AFTER an election when they did not get their way. If the people want it changed, they need to contact their politicians and go about, however they have to, legally to get it changed. But not after someone won fair and square (outside of the extreme mud slinging from both sides). I personally think it goes against democracy to try and change the outcome after it is done because you no longer feel the process is fair or right. Where does it end? Whenever someone who you want to win does not win, start changing or adjusting the system to make that person the winner?

I am far from an expert on politics so I could not say which way is best, Electoral College or popular vote. But the Electoral College was put in place for a reason to try and give better representation of the country in the government... from my limited understanding of it, could be dead wrong and open for correction.


----------



## Macfury

Without the Electoral College, candidates would play only to New York, California and Texas to reap the largest number of individual voters. The system was put in place as a condition for states with lower populations to join the union, knowing that the presidential candidates would campaign for their votes as well.

If popular vote had counted, Trump would have run a different campaign.



wonderings said:


> The popular vote does not matter. Whether you agree with it or not, the system in place worked and did its job. Now you can disagree and say the popular vote should be how Presidents are elected sure, but people only seem to whine about it AFTER an election when they did not get their way. If the people want it changed, they need to contact their politicians and go about, however they have to, legally to get it changed. But not after someone won fair and square (outside of the extreme mud slinging from both sides). I personally think it goes against democracy to try and change the outcome after it is done because you no longer feel the process is fair or right. Where does it end? Whenever someone who you want to win does not win, start changing or adjusting the system to make that person the winner?
> 
> I am far from an expert on politics so I could not say which way is best, Electoral College or popular vote. But the Electoral College was put in place for a reason to try and give better representation of the country in the government... from my limited understanding of it, could be dead wrong and open for correction.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> The popular vote does not matter. Whether you agree with it or not, the system in place worked and did its job. Now you can disagree and say the popular vote should be how Presidents are elected sure, but people only seem to whine about it AFTER an election when they did not get their way. If the people want it changed, they need to contact their politicians and go about, however they have to, legally to get it changed. But not after someone won fair and square (outside of the extreme mud slinging from both sides). I personally think it goes against democracy to try and change the outcome after it is done because you no longer feel the process is fair or right. Where does it end? Whenever someone who you want to win does not win, start changing or adjusting the system to make that person the winner?
> 
> 
> 
> I am far from an expert on politics so I could not say which way is best, Electoral College or popular vote. But the Electoral College was put in place for a reason to try and give better representation of the country in the government... from my limited understanding of it, could be dead wrong and open for correction.



I agree. I just like to point out the irony in the fact that The Donald hates losers (he prefers soldiers who weren't captured, for example) and yet he lost the popularity contest. Bwahahahahahahaha! So basically he won the presidency on a technicality because rural votes are overpresented. So he won fair and square, but he's a loser in at least one other sense.


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## Macfury

Having won the presidency, I don't think he thinks about it much. I think losers are dwelling on the popular vote stuff.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I agree. I just like to point out the irony in the fact that The Donald hates losers (he prefers soldiers who weren't captured, for example) and yet he lost the popularity contest. Bwahahahahahahaha! So basically he won the presidency on a technicality because rural votes are overpresented. So he won fair and square, but he's a loser in at least one other sense.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Having won the presidency, I don't think he thinks about it much. I think losers are dwelling on the popular vote stuff.













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## Macfury

It's now an _ad hominem_ attack to refer to losers of an election as losers? You're a pretty sensitive fellow, freddie!


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## eMacMan

Of course take California out of the equation where Hillary earned or perhaps scammed her way to a huge majority and Trump wins the popular vote as well.

FWIW I lean towards scammed given all the shenanigans that went on in the California Democratic primary. Can't see the Clinton Cabal cleaning up its act for the main event.

I don't have any use for either Presidential pile of dung, but it seems to me the Electoral College is doing exactly what it was designed to do.


----------



## ehMax

*Donald Trump Tells Tim Cook He'll Offer Apple 'Very Large Tax Cut' to Make Products in America*

In a recent interview with The New York Times, President-elect Donald Trump said he received phone calls from Apple CEO Tim Cook and Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates after winning the presidential election earlier this month. 

Trump told Cook it will be a "real achievement" for him when he gets Apple to make its products in the United States, as opposed to countries like China and Vietnam where many of its current manufacturing partners operate.

_I got a call from Tim Cook at Apple, and I said, ‘Tim, you know one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you’re making your product right here.’
Cook acknowledged the proposition by nondescriptly saying "I understand that," according to Trump. _

Trump said he is confident Apple will turn to U.S. manufacturing based on the incentives he plans to offer the iPhone maker, including a "very large tax cut" and "substantial regulation cuts" for corporations.

_I said: ‘I think we’ll create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you’ll be happy about.’ But we’re going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, I mean I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It’s gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can’t, they can’t even start up, they can’t expand, they’re choking._

Interesting to read the rest. I don't think it will happen. You just need to take a Supply Chain and Operations Management 101 course to understand how complex the supply chain network is, how well established it is in China, and how hard it, if not impossible it would be to replicate that. 

There is a massive shortage of workers in Supply Chain and Operation in Canada as it is. If you graduate from a community college with a 3 year diploma, you can START for over $60,000 anywhere you like. Never mind trying to bring tech manufacturing to the largest company in the world. Plus, the wage-rate is so grossly different. Doubt you find people wanting to work unionized for 10+ hours a day doing mind-numbing work with ****ty pay. Trump is going to change consumer mind-set at price-points they purchase? Get them to not shop at Walmart? 

All these manufacturing jobs he's gonna get back. Does he know how rapidly manufacturing is being automated? If you wanna compete with China on manufacturing, you need either A) Cheap Labour at the same quality or B) Automated.. which doesn't bring jobs back. 

I'd like to see him be succsesful. If he does without there being a big negative downside to it, I will be impressed and tip my hat to him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

You would think Trump would be the first to realize that simplistic solutions can result in bankruptcy (multiple times), but as long as people think it's acceptable for man with no government experience and less than half the votes cast to be in charge of the biggest economy in the world, America will probably become great again in the same manner as the Great Depression.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> You would think Trump would be the first to realize that simplistic solutions can result in bankruptcy (multiple times), but as long as people think it's acceptable for man with no government experience and less than half the votes cast to be in charge of the biggest economy in the world, America will probably become great again in the same manner as the Great Depression.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could care less about Trump having gone bankrupt multiple times. If government was a business they would be bankrupt more times the then Trump. How many trillions of dollars does the USA owe? Politicians are worse with money having no concept how the real world works. Same goes in Canada as well. Spend spend spend, and why not, seems like no real accountability for the ever increasing debt. What are politicians doing with all this vast experience? Adding trillions more to the debt. Evil we know, sure, but I am willing and curious to see what someone not a career politician will do. 

Again, you need to get off the popular vote. That is how the system works, you would not say a word about the popular vote if the roles were reveresed and Hillary won the electoral and Trump had the popular.


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> You would think Trump would be the first to realize that simplistic solutions can result in bankruptcy (multiple times),


He also knows they result in huge successes (far more often).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I could care less about Trump having gone bankrupt multiple times. If government was a business they would be bankrupt more times the then Trump. How many trillions of dollars does the USA owe? Politicians are worse with money having no concept how the real world works. Same goes in Canada as well. Spend spend spend, and why not, seems like no real accountability for the ever increasing debt. What are politicians doing with all this vast experience? Adding trillions more to the debt. Evil we know, sure, but I am willing and curious to see what someone not a career politician will do.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, you need to get off the popular vote. That is how the system works, you would not say a word about the popular vote if the roles were reveresed and Hillary won the electoral and Trump had the popular.



Au contraire, mon ami. If the situation were reversed I would still note the irony of a person essentially losing the election but still becoming President-elect. Remember: the Electoral College has not yet cast their votes, and something like 178 out of 538 districts have opted to go with the national popular vote regardless of the state outcome. The system is not quite as cut and dried as you might think.


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## Macfury

Anything can be made in America--the question is whether people would be willing to pay that much. At some point Apple moved final assembly of the MacPro to the US leaving the nitty gritty work overseas.

We don't know how much laboor costs contribute to an iPhone's cost, but this guy gives it a good shot:

How much does it cost to manufacture an iPhone? | Asymco

He figures that the labour cost for an iPhone ranges from between $12 to $30 per phone for people making US$2.28 per hour. Assuming you could just bring the entire supply chain to the US (you can't) you could assemble the phone in Georgia for US$5.15 per hour adding $18 to $36 to the cost of the phone. If you only moved final assembly to the US--a fraction of that time--the cost would be much lower. Given that, I think you could make a case for final assembly being moved to the US.

I agree with you that nano-tech and additive manufacturing/3D printing will revolutionize manufacturing in 20 years. You would need far fewer workers and you could build your iPhone in the US at little incremental manufacturing cost. GE has already built two 3D printing plants for jet engine parts--one in Alabama and the other in Indiana. 



ehMax said:


> *Donald Trump Tells Tim Cook He'll Offer Apple 'Very Large Tax Cut' to Make Products in America*
> 
> In a recent interview with The New York Times, President-elect Donald Trump said he received phone calls from Apple CEO Tim Cook and Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates after winning the presidential election earlier this month.
> 
> Trump told Cook it will be a "real achievement" for him when he gets Apple to make its products in the United States, as opposed to countries like China and Vietnam where many of its current manufacturing partners operate.
> 
> _I got a call from Tim Cook at Apple, and I said, ‘Tim, you know one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you’re making your product right here.’
> Cook acknowledged the proposition by nondescriptly saying "I understand that," according to Trump. _
> 
> Trump said he is confident Apple will turn to U.S. manufacturing based on the incentives he plans to offer the iPhone maker, including a "very large tax cut" and "substantial regulation cuts" for corporations.
> 
> _I said: ‘I think we’ll create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you’ll be happy about.’ But we’re going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, I mean I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It’s gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can’t, they can’t even start up, they can’t expand, they’re choking._
> 
> Interesting to read the rest. I don't think it will happen. You just need to take a Supply Chain and Operations Management 101 course to understand how complex the supply chain network is, how well established it is in China, and how hard it, if not impossible it would be to replicate that.
> 
> There is a massive shortage of workers in Supply Chain and Operation in Canada as it is. If you graduate from a community college with a 3 year diploma, you can START for over $60,000 anywhere you like. Never mind trying to bring tech manufacturing to the largest company in the world. Plus, the wage-rate is so grossly different. Doubt you find people wanting to work unionized for 10+ hours a day doing mind-numbing work with ****ty pay. Trump is going to change consumer mind-set at price-points they purchase? Get them to not shop at Walmart?
> 
> All these manufacturing jobs he's gonna get back. Does he know how rapidly manufacturing is being automated? If you wanna compete with China on manufacturing, you need either A) Cheap Labour at the same quality or B) Automated.. which doesn't bring jobs back.
> 
> I'd like to see him be succsesful. If he does without there being a big negative downside to it, I will be impressed and tip my hat to him.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> He also knows they result in huge successes (far more often).


People with little real-world experience expect businesses to have an uninterrupted string of successes. Apple has built a lot of products that were dogs and been on the ropes several times (Gil Amelio anyone?). If you attempt to be great, you are going to fail sometimes. If mediocrity satisfies you, by all means stay safe and never worry about a business failure--or distinction.


----------



## Macfury

No, theses states have not agreed to go with the national popular vote. They're thinking about it if enough states join their compact. 

It's cut and dried and really over for Hillary.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Au contraire, mon ami. If the situation were reversed I would still note the irony of a person essentially losing the election but still becoming President-elect. Remember: the Electoral College has not yet cast their votes, and something like 178 out of 538 districts have opted to go with the national popular vote regardless of the state outcome. The system is not quite as cut and dried as you might think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, theses states have not agreed to go with the national popular vote. They're thinking about it if enough states join their compact.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cut and dried and really over for Hillary.



Not quite as cut and dried as you might think, if you are such a strong supporter of the Electoral College. 



> College of Charleston political science professor Claire Wofford explained to me that the founding fathers were actually quite afraid of direct democracy; they put the Electoral College in place as a fail-safe to protect the American presidency from a candidate who’s popular but unfit for office. “Several features of our government are designed to ‘filter’ what the [constitutional] framers saw might be the irrationality and emotion of the populace, including the Electoral College,” she said. “So you could argue that the election of Trump is just such an instance, in which a demagogue has somehow managed to ‘sway’ an easily misled public.” Wofford said “there is no explicit federal or constitutional ban on electors selecting candidates as they wish, even if that means departing from the popular vote of the state.”


https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/508433/?client=safari


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## SINC

If there was even a single thought the electoral college would overturn the outcome, the preparation by Trump in naming his choices to govern the country would be halted dead in its tracks. It's over. Trump won. Hillary's toast. Get over it.


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## Macfury

I am a strong supporter and this aspect of the Electoral College is also cut and dried. It's designed to upend dictators who promise to betray the Constitution. In the fever dreams of some progs, Donald Trump is some sort of fascist-in-waiting who will be denied by the Electors. I guess this gives their lives some meaning.

Still, I'll bet you $1,000 that Trump will be certified by the Electors. We can both send the money to SINC to hold until December 19. Up for it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not quite as cut and dried as you might think, if you are such a strong supporter of the Electoral College.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Au contraire, mon ami. If the situation were reversed I would still note the irony of a person essentially losing the election but still becoming President-elect. Remember: the Electoral College has not yet cast their votes, and something like 178 out of 538 districts have opted to go with the national popular vote regardless of the state outcome. The system is not quite as cut and dried as you might think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again no expert, but I doubt Trump would have had a security briefing going over all those classified documents about Area 51 and what really happened on 9/11 if it was up in the air whether he would take the Presidency. 

Even with the popular vote, Hillary is only winning by 2 million which is a small percentage. Either way, the country is still very divided and does not seem interested in trying to unify and make the best of things which only harms the country.


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## SINC

Gotta agree with wonderings. The people bitching about the vote count in the USA ought to be more concerned about Trudeau winning a majority here with a little more than one third of the votes, a much bigger tragedy.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I agree with you that nano-tech and additive manufacturing/3D printing will revolutionize manufacturing in 20 years. You would need far fewer workers and you could build your iPhone in the US at little incremental manufacturing cost. GE has already built two 3D printing plants for jet engine parts--one in Alabama and the other in Indiana.


In that context of high-automation, low-employment growth, what do you see as the possibilities for decent incomes for folks who may be in the low-education, more physical labour sort of job market? Where do the workers go in our robot overlord future?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> In that context of high-automation, low-employment growth, what do you see as the possibilities for decent incomes for folks who may be in the low-education, more physical labour sort of job market? Where do the workers go in our robot overlord future?


I see additive printing as replacing short-run or high-value manufacturing, but not mass production. However, the severely undereducated looking for decent income are going to get plastered in tomorrow's economy all over the world, unless they want to get into energy, construction, or service work. 

I also think that using foreign labour to work in agriculture needs to stop. Farmers need to pay domestic workers what it takes to convince them to work. Will result in higher prices for produce, but also increased domestic employment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I am a strong supporter and this aspect of the Electoral College is also cut and dried. It's designed to upend dictators who promise to betray the Constitution. In the fever dreams of some progs, Donald Trump is some sort of fascist-in-waiting who will be denied by the Electors. I guess this gives their lives some meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> Still, I'll bet you $1,000 that Trump will be certified by the Electors. We can both send the money to SINC to hold until December 19. Up for it?



Nope.


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## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Again no expert, but I doubt Trump would have had a security briefing going over all those classified documents about Area 51 and what really happened on 9/11 if it was up in the air whether he would take the Presidency.
> 
> 
> 
> Even with the popular vote, Hillary is only winning by 2 million which is a small percentage. Either way, the country is still very divided and does not seem interested in trying to unify and make the best of things which only harms the country.



I certainly agree with you there. For the record, the 2 million vote difference is the largest between winner and runner-up in the national popular vote, and about four times bigger than when Al Gore won the popular vote over George W Bush. It's not going to change the end result, and I doubt they're going to change the EC rules midstream, but it does illustrate a glaring problem with the system the way it stands now. 


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Gotta agree with wonderings. The people bitching about the vote count in the USA ought to be more concerned about Trudeau winning a majority here with a little more than one third of the votes, a much bigger tragedy.



Trudeau won handily, Don, as did Rachel in Alberta. 35-40% of the popular vote is a strong showing when you have three or four parties running instead of just two. It's exactly the same kind of percentages Harper saw during his glory days. 


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## Macfury

That's the prize you get or playing to your audience in New York and California!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I certainly agree with you there. For the record, the 2 million vote difference is the largest between winner and runner-up in the national popular vote, and about four times bigger than when Al Gore won the popular vote over George W Bush. It's not going to change the end result, and I doubt they're going to change the EC rules midstream, but it does illustrate a glaring problem with the system the way it stands now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in on Fox News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      

Sarah Palin is the new Sect. of the Interior
Bernie Madoff to Head Treasury Department
Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman to head the DEA


----------



## Dr.G.

Conway tweets about Trump base anger over Romney - CNNPolitics.com

Maybe he should name Hillary Clinton as Sect. of State to take the heat off of Mitt Romney????


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## Macfury

I wouldn't nominate back-stabbing Romney if I were Trump.

Hillary certain has experience with Middle East instability--unfortunately, she caused much of it.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I wouldn't nominate back-stabbing Romney if I were Trump.
> 
> Hillary certain has experience with Middle East instability--unfortunately, she caused much of it.


I am amazed that Romney and Trump even met ................ and shook hands!!!!


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I am amazed that Romney and Trump even met ................ and shook hands!!!!


I would keep an eye on Romney's other hand.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's the prize you get or playing to your audience in New York and California!



Why do you feel the need to comment on responses that I send to other forum members? No offense, but it seems a little much. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> This just in on Fox News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah Palin is the new Sect. of the Interior
> 
> Bernie Madoff to Head Treasury Department
> 
> Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman to head the DEA



I guess we could call it the dumbing down of the American Dream, or perhaps the new Great American whitener.


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## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> I am amazed that Romney and Trump even met ................ and shook hands!!!!


Well it just goes to show that the right mitt doesn't know what the mitt left was doing. Trump has been changing opinions on policy lately.... you could say things are inter-Mitt-ent.


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## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Well it just goes to show that the right mitt doesn't know what the mitt left was doing. Trump has been changing opinions on policy lately.... you could say things are inter-Mitt-ent.



Stop it mitt the comedy jokes! Though I admitt, they are mixed mitt a certain amount of truthiness. 


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## Macfury

It's a public discussion, Freddie--not a tête-à-tête. It's not like I'm commenting on your private messages.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you feel the need to comment on responses that I send to other forum members? No offense, but it seems a little much.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would keep an eye on Romney's other hand.


XX)XX) [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGU3PRBxQiw[/ame] They did slug it out during the campaign.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I guess we could call it the dumbing down of the American Dream, or perhaps the new Great American whitener.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whatever you call it, there shall be difficult times ahead for many Americans. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well it just goes to show that the right mitt doesn't know what the mitt left was doing. Trump has been changing opinions on policy lately.... you could say things are inter-Mitt-ent.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Stop it mitt the comedy jokes! Though I admitt, they are mixed mitt a certain amount of truthiness.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And I thought Mitt was the bane of Wall Street.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And I thought Mitt was the bane of Wall Street.


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Group Funded By Trump's Education Secretary Pick: 'Bring Back Child Labor' | The Huffington Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upD6cB9Rzvk


----------



## Dr.G.

"So far the qualifications of Trump's cabinet members are roughly equivalent to a degree from Trump University." Andy Borowitz


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's a public discussion, Freddie--not a tête-à-tête. It's not like I'm commenting on your private messages.



It's very troll-like. You've got to be the first one to respond. Every. Damned. Time. Seriously, dude, find a hobby. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's very troll-like. You've got to be the first one to respond. Every. Damned. Time. Seriously, dude, find a hobby.


Yeah it is just about as bad as reading the same old popular vote ****e posted in such huge sizes again and again. That too is very toll-like.


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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Yeah it is just about as bad as reading the same old popular vote ****e posted in such huge sizes again and again. That too is very toll-like.



Toll-like? I ask for no payment. You are free to not read or respond to anything I post, especially if it hurts your eyes. I read 99% of what I see on this forum using my iPhone and that's how it works, so suck it up, Princess. 

As far as trolls go, an obsession with dogging a particular forum member constitutes troll-like behaviour. Not responding offends no one. One action is troll-like, the other is not. Posting super sized pictures has nothing to with being a troll. Think about it. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Hopefully this Thanksgiving message appears HUUUUGE on your screens to amplify its sincerity. 











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## Macfury

It's not you. I'm reacting to posts made without adequately supporting them. Every. Damned Time. Quit mewling and complaining about things you can control. Stop reading my posts or put me on ignore. 

Makes no diff to me Biff.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's very troll-like. You've got to be the first one to respond. Every. Damned. Time. Seriously, dude, find a hobby.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's not you. I'm reacting to posts made without adequately supporting them. Every. Damned Time. Quit mewling and complaining about things you can control. Stop reading my posts or put me on ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> Makes no diff to me Biff.



How about this? If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Nobody appreciates a troll, and you know very well that's exactly what you've been doing. A little maturity goes a long way. Nobody asked you to become self-appointed monitor of what's acceptable for other people to post. I don't dog your every contribution. I'd appreciate if you didn't dog mine. Thank you in advance for your consideration. Have a good evening. 


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## Freddie_Biff

A lot of bad things rhyme with Donald Trump. 

https://youtu.be/p9gLdq0TFxE


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## Macfury

You're giving this way too much thought. More than I will give it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How about this? If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Nobody appreciates a troll, and you know very well that's exactly what you've been doing. A little maturity goes a long way. Nobody asked you to become self-appointed monitor of what's acceptable for other people to post. I don't dog your every contribution. I'd appreciate if you didn't dog mine. Thank you in advance for your consideration. Have a good evening.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're giving this way too much thought. More than I will give it.




Well, at least you're predictable. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ehMax

CubaMark said:


> In that context of high-automation, low-employment growth, what do you see as the possibilities for decent incomes for folks who may be in the low-education, more physical labour sort of job market? Where do the workers go in our robot overlord future?


Can't find the video, but one prominent dude (Can't remember his name) was at a talk (A lot of other bigwigs like Elon Musk and such were there), how AI in robots would increase the techology factor of product so much, that mankind would not have to work if they didn't want. They estimate that 60-70% of all currently done human labour could be done with robots and IS. The GDP would increase so high, that there would be enought production to provide a base salary for anyone. It was bizarre stuff. 

More down to earth, here is a more sober look at what robots and AI will do for us shortly:

https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/artificial-intelligence-poised-to-double-annual-economic-growth-rate-in-12-developed-economies-and-boost-labor-productivity-by-up-to-40-percent-by-2035-according-to-new-research-by-accenture.htm

IT is a crazy system how in order for our economy to be healthy and match the population's economic standard of living, our economy always has to grow. It's such a balancing action... it would be wierd / exciting / scary to see how a huge increase in GDP would affect the economy, something we haven't had in awhile. Free solar energy. AI. More advanced robots. It's all coming in the next decade.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I remember Alvin Tofler's Future Shock being popular in the 70's. It would be interesting to see how many predictions he got right. I don't think people have really increased their leisure time, for example, due to robots. 


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## Macfury

It's--as one former EhMacer used to put it-- a question of whether you can build an economy around people cutting each others' hair. If AI does most of the manufacturing, then people might move to service economy positions. If you can build a machine that produces most basic items for next-to-free there will still be services people demand.



ehMax said:


> Can't find the video, but one prominent dude (Can't remember his name) was at a talk (A lot of other bigwigs like Elon Musk and such were there), how AI in robots would increase the techology factor of product so much, that mankind would not have to work if they didn't want. They estimate that 60-70% of all currently done human labour could be done with robots and IS. The GDP would increase so high, that there would be enought production to provide a base salary for anyone. It was bizarre stuff.
> 
> More down to earth, here is a more sober look at what robots and AI will do for us shortly:
> 
> https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/artificial-intelligence-poised-to-double-annual-economic-growth-rate-in-12-developed-economies-and-boost-labor-productivity-by-up-to-40-percent-by-2035-according-to-new-research-by-accenture.htm
> 
> IT is a crazy system how in order for our economy to be healthy and match the population's economic standard of living, our economy always has to grow. It's such a balancing action... it would be wierd / exciting / scary to see how a huge increase in GDP would affect the economy, something we haven't had in awhile. Free solar energy. AI. More advanced robots. It's all coming in the next decade.


----------



## CubaMark

(Bruce Mackinnon)


----------



## Macfury

These were both great cabinet picks!


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf_XrfpdOsM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfXhJ3cBcW4


Sadly, had he been the Democratic candidate, he would be president-elect right now.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, had he been the Democratic candidate, he would be president-elect right now.


Agreed that it would be sad if he had been elected.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed that it would be sad if he had been elected.


Over-joyed is a better word had he been elected, mon ami ............ sad that he was not nominated . Paix.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Over-joyed is a better word had he been elected, mon ami ............ sad that he was not nominated . Paix.



"A man without land is nothing."
"Don't twist, Duffy. Not with me." 


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Over-joyed is a better word had he been elected, mon ami ............ sad that he was not nominated . Paix.


While we might disagree on the probable outcome, I believe that Bernie was dealt a foul hand. Had the DNC not conspired against him I believe he would have won the nomination. Hillary must now bear the stigma that, had she played fair, Bernie might have achieved a better outcome.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> While we might disagree on the probable outcome, I believe that Bernie was dealt a foul hand. Had the DNC not conspired against him I believe he would have won the nomination. Hillary must now bear the stigma that, had she played fair, Bernie might have achieved a better outcome.


Well, we agree that Bernie was dealt a losing hand from the DNC, and that he might have won the presidency. So, we are still friends. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> "A man without land is nothing."
> "Don't twist, Duffy. Not with me."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The first quote I recognize from The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, but I can't place the second quote, Frank.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Bush Counting Down Days Until He is No Longer Worst President in History" Andy Borowitz.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The first quote I recognize from The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, but I can't place the second quote, Frank.



That's what Zeyda says to Duddy when Duddy tries to rationalize the nefarious method he used to acquire the land from Virgil. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's what Zeyda says to Duddy when Duddy tries to rationalize the nefarious method he used to acquire the land from Virgil.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the update, Frank. I did not place it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Thanks for the update, Frank. I did not place it.



Zeyda was a wise man whom Duddy looked up to immensely. However, Duddy lacked the scruples to maintain a sense of honour in his achievements. The "don't twist" line always resonated with me for some reason. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Zeyda was a wise man whom Duddy looked up to immensely. However, Duddy lacked the scruples to maintain a sense of honour in his achievements. The "don't twist" line always resonated with me for some reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> While we might disagree on the probable outcome, I believe that Bernie was dealt a foul hand. Had the DNC not conspired against him I believe he would have won the nomination. Hillary must now bear the stigma that, had she played fair, Bernie might have achieved a better outcome.



Do you think Bernie would have won over Trump? 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think Bernie would have won over Trump?


No I don't. I believe he would have motivated some younger people, isolated some older people an convinced many Democrat centrists not to vote.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think Bernie would have won over Trump?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, winning both the popular vote by a landslide and the electoral college vote with about 300+ votes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, winning both the popular vote by a landslide and the electoral college vote with about 300+ votes.



I'd say Bernie had a sincerity that the other two candidates seem to lack. Bernie was truly fighting for the little guy and against corporate interests. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump seems to be much worse. Most of his proposed cabinet is made up of millionaires and billionaires, all people who are so removed from the working class you wonder how they could have any empathy for the average American at all.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'd say Bernie had a sincerity that the other two candidates seem to lack. Bernie was truly fighting for the little guy and against corporate interests. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump seems to be much worse. Most of his proposed cabinet is made up of millionaires and billionaires, all people who are so removed from the working class you wonder how they couldn't have any empathy for the average America at all.


All too true, Frank ............ all too true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Most of his proposed cabinet is made up of millionaires and billionaires, all people who are so removed from the working class you wonder how they could have any empathy for the average American at all.


Wrong once again.

25 Super Rich People Who Use Their Money To Help The World - Business Insider

Take for example Henry Ford in the last century and Bill Gates in this century. Do some research and find that the wealthy are in a position to assist the common man and the great majority of the rich do just that using both power and influence in addition to wealth.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'd say Bernie had a sincerity that the other two candidates seem to lack. Bernie was truly fighting for the little guy and against corporate interests. Say what you want about Hillary, but Trump seems to be much worse. Most of his proposed cabinet is made up of millionaires and billionaires, all people who are so removed from the working class you wonder how they could have any empathy for the average American at all.


You can't appoint working class people to cabinet. No experience at that level. However, businesspeople who agree with your governing philosophy will likely be able to make things happen.

Despite being wrong on most policies, Bernie _had_ a sincerity. But after he was taken to the woodshed by Obama, he threw in with HIll with such vigour that I no longer accepted his sincerity.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> You can't appoint working class people to cabinet. No experience at that level. However, businesspeople who agree with your governing philosophy will likely be able to make things happen.
> 
> Despite being wrong on most policies, Bernie _had_ a sincerity. But after he was taken to the woodshed by Obama, he threw in with HIll with such vigour that I no longer accepted his sincerity.


I agree with your point on the cabinet positions. However there are some general rules in politics. 1. The purpose of government is to maintain being elected not governing. 2. Government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect. 3. The greatest sin is not being caught but showing up the leader of the party. And finally my favourite, which brings us to Bernie....the key to success is sincerity.....once you learn how to fake that you can get anything.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I agree with your point on the cabinet positions. However there are some general rules in politics. 1. The purpose of government is to maintain being elected not governing. 2. Government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect. 3. The greatest sin is not being caught but showing up the leader of the party. And finally my favourite, which brings us to Bernie....the key to success is sincerity.....once you learn how to fake that you can get anything.


Rp. of there is one thing that you can say about Bernie Sanders is that he was sincere. He has been his whole career. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I agree with your point on the cabinet positions. However there are some general rules in politics. 1. The purpose of government is to maintain being elected not governing. 2. Government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect. 3. The greatest sin is not being caught but showing up the leader of the party. And finally my favourite, which brings us to Bernie....the key to success is sincerity.....once you learn how to fake that you can get anything.


Trump's job is to assemble a team to de-legislate!


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump's job is to assemble a team to de-legislate!


Sounds like rule 1 and 2 to me.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Sounds like rule 1 and 2 to me.


#1 for Trump requires #2.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> #1 for Trump requires #2.


There you go! Now you're getting it!


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> #1 for Trump requires #2.


Well, we certainly have a #2 in office now.  (I'm kidding.. it was just dangling there)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Wrong once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 25 Super Rich People Who Use Their Money To Help The World - Business Insider
> 
> 
> 
> Take for example Henry Ford in the last century and Bill Gates in this century. Do some research and find that the wealthy are in a position to assist the common man and the great majority of the rich do just that using both power and influence in addition to wealth.



Yes, indeed, some of the super wealthy, like Henry Ford and Bill Gates, are also great philanthropists. However, I don't see anyone with that kind of reputation among Trump's picks. Do you?


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You can't appoint working class people to cabinet. No experience at that level. However, businesspeople who agree with your governing philosophy will likely be able to make things happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Despite being wrong on most policies, Bernie _had_ a sincerity. But after he was taken to the woodshed by Obama, he threw in with HIll with such vigour that I no longer accepted his sincerity.



It is unfortunate that Bernie had to, as John Mellencamp would say, trade in his ambition for a warmer place to sleep, but that's the way it goes when you ultimately have to pick one candidate. Hillary gamed the system with the superdelegates, and then got gamed by the system when all the myriad red David constituencies took on the big blue Goliath ones. The loss of the popular vote still has to be of a sticking point with Trump though, in the same way Fleance's escape ruined the murder of Bangui for Macbeth just a little. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The loss of the popular vote still has to be of a sticking point with Trump though...


I doubt it. His campaign cost half of Hillary's. If he had wanted to spend more on increasing votes in states he had already won, it would have been doable.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Clearly, the only fair way to resolve this election controversy is to have Obama be President for another four years and then hold a re-vote." Andy Borowitz


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Out of respect for the new President-elect, Mr. Trump has requested that certain pictures of him not be circulated any more on the Internet.










Also closeup of said pictures like this. 










Or unflattering photos like this. 










Or even pictures of bad hair days (admittedly plentiful).










Your cooperation in this regard is kindly appreciated. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Out of respect for the new President-elect, Mr. Trump has requested that certain pictures of him not be circulated any more on the Internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also closeup of said pictures like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or unflattering photos like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or even pictures of bad hair days (admittedly plentiful).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your cooperation in this regard is kindly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK. I shall do my bit and not spread these pictures around the internet. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury

Agreed. And that sentiment has been endorsed by Hillary Clinton:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

For some reason it's a lot harder to find bad pics of this guy though.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> For some reason it's a lot harder to find bad pics of this guy though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I shall truly miss Pres. Obama. I know that this sentiment is not shared by many in this thread, and this thought will probably set off a fire-storm of anti-Obama rants, but this is how I feel. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Obama was a bad president, but much more photogenic. I think the "demon" photo was the worst photo of the lot:


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump Claims, With No Evidence, That ‘Millions of People’ Voted Illegally*

_President-elect Donald J. Trump said on Sunday that he had fallen short in the popular vote in the general election only because *millions of people had voted illegally*, leveling his claim —* despite the absence of any such evidence* — as part of a daylong storm of Twitter posts voicing anger about a three-state recount push.

“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Mr. Trump wrote Sunday afternoon._​
(NYT)


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Trump Claims, With No Evidence, That ‘Millions of People’ Voted Illegally*
> 
> _President-elect Donald J. Trump said on Sunday that he had fallen short in the popular vote in the general election only because *millions of people had voted illegally*, leveling his claim —* despite the absence of any such evidence* — as part of a daylong storm of Twitter posts voicing anger about a three-state recount push.
> 
> “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Mr. Trump wrote Sunday afternoon._​
> (NYT)


Well, Trump did say that the voting was rigged.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Trump Claims, With No Evidence, That ‘Millions of People’ Voted Illegally*
> 
> 
> 
> _President-elect Donald J. Trump said on Sunday that he had fallen short in the popular vote in the general election only because *millions of people had voted illegally*, leveling his claim —* despite the absence of any such evidence* — as part of a daylong storm of Twitter posts voicing anger about a three-state recount push.
> 
> 
> 
> “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Mr. Trump wrote Sunday afternoon._​
> 
> 
> (NYT)



He's been right on a number of bizarre things so far. If he could say with confidence the system is rigged it's probably because he made sure that it is. But how can he be sure that the illegal (or dead) voters didn't vote Republican?


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## heavyall

He's most likely correct. The demand for evidence is pretty funny though. If there was documentation of the illegal voting, they wouldn't have been allowed to vote in the first place. The lack of documentation IS the problem.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> I shall truly miss Pres. Obama. I know that this sentiment is not shared by many in this thread, and this thought will probably set off a fire-storm of anti-Obama rants, but this is how I feel. Paix, mon ami.


Time is a funny thing. I think as time goes on Obama will be seen as a productive president. I think he will be shown to be more effective than most currently think.


----------



## Rps

The issue I see with the U.S. election is more an election by States than a national election. They should get with the programme and harmonise election rules and practices and, base the EC on a proportional representation basis.


----------



## heavyall

Rps said:


> The issue I see with the U.S. election is more an election by States than a national election. They should get with the programme and harmonise election rules and practices and, base the EC on a proportional representation basis.


No! Proportional representation is tyranny. LA has lots of people, so what? It's still just one place whose interests and concerns are different from many other places that might be smaller. If anything, the representation should be MORE geographically based than it already is (here in Canada too).


----------



## Rps

heavyall said:


> No! Proportional representation is tyranny. LA has lots of people, so what? It's still just one place whose interests and concerns are different from many other places that might be smaller. If anything, the representation should be MORE geographically based than it already is (here in Canada too).


If the EC were based on PR the allocation would be based on the percentage each candidate received.....hardly tyranny. The EC was developed to hedge against geographic and population imbalance. Since we don't elect our Prime Minister, but have many many parties our FPTP system has been called into question as more, usually, vote against the winner than for......but that is for another thread.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Time is a funny thing. I think as time goes on Obama will be seen as a productive president. I think he will be shown to be more effective than most currently think.


I fully agree, Rp. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Picks El Chapo to Run D.E.A. - The New Yorker

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Time is a funny thing. I think as time goes on Obama will be seen as a productive president. I think he will be shown to be more effective than most currently think.


He will be famous as the first black president. Not productive--more destructive.


----------



## heavyall

Rps said:


> If the EC were based on PR the allocation would be based on the percentage each candidate received.....hardly tyranny. .


Allows one place to tell ten or twenty (or more) other places how to live just because that one has more people. It's ridiculous. People in cities have no idea of the concerns or needs of people in rural areas, they should not dictate how they are governed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He will be famous as the first black president. Not productive--more destructive.



Half black. And how do you figure destructive? He's leaving the country in better shape than what Bush left for him.


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## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> Allows one place to tell ten or twenty (or more) other places how to live just because that one has more people. It's ridiculous. People in cities have no idea of the concerns or needs of people in rural areas, they should not dictate how they are governed.



And vice-versa. Why should all the rural fold get to decide what's best for people in cities? I detect a certain rural bias here. 


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## Macfury

The problem is that "progressives" continue to centralize power in Washington. If power were decentralized again to the states, most of the differences would not be an issue. An "imperial presidency" such as Obama's exacerbates the differences between urban and rural by forcing urban dictates onto rural states.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And vice-versa. Why should all the rural fold get to decide what's best for people in cities? I detect a certain rural bias here.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Half black. And how do you figure destructive? He's leaving the country in better shape than what Bush left for him.


120 million people working in 2008
124 million people working in 2016
Population increase of 20 million Americans since then. Stagnation.

Obama doubled national debt to $20 trillion.

Slowest recovery from a recession since the great Depression.

Went from Iraq and Afghanistan trouble spots to add Egypt, Syria and Lybia. 

Nice work!


----------



## Dr.G.

Listening to Sen. Rand Paul being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer on CNN. He is making a great deal of sense. Sadly, I don't think that Trump will heed any of his words (e.g., he would support Mitt Romney for Sect. of State, but not the others being mentioned). We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Listening to Sen. Rand Paul being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer on CNN. He is making a great deal of sense. Sadly, I don't think that Trump will heed any of his words (e.g., he would support Mitt Romney for Sect. of State, but not the others being mentioned). We shall see.


Don't listen to Rand, Donald!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Don't listen to Rand, Donald!


Who do you want to be named Sect. of State?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Who do you want to be named Sect. of State?


I'm willing to listen to Romney alternatives--not backstabbing Mitt.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm willing to listen to Romney alternatives--not backstabbing Mitt.


Maybe he will select Hillary??????


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> And vice-versa. Why should all the rural fold get to decide what's best for people in cities? I detect a certain rural bias here.


It is the majority of the country. Here and in the US. Every town is one place, every county is one place. Each with it's own concerns. No one should tell the others what to do.

I was born in and currently live in a major city. I have lived in rural areas as well. It's called perspective.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> It is the majority of the country. Here and in the US. Every town is one place, every county is one place. Each with it's own concerns. No one should tell the others what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I was born in and currently live in a major city. I have lived in rural areas as well. It's called perspective.




You say it's the majority of the country, but only geographically, not population wise. There's the problem with your hypotheses. As has been pointed out previously, if it were just up to the urban voters, LA and New York and a few other big centres would over rule every time. So they bent over too far backwards to give the rural vote more weight, not because it's more democratic, but to even up the score. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> 120 million people working in 2008
> 
> 124 million people working in 2016
> 
> Population increase of 20 million Americans since then. Stagnation.
> 
> 
> 
> Obama doubled national debt to $20 trillion.
> 
> 
> 
> Slowest recovery from a recession since the great Depression.
> 
> 
> 
> Went from Iraq and Afghanistan trouble spots to add Egypt, Syria and Lybia.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice work!



And I suppose you figure he created all of the problems as soon his took office, as opposed to inheriting a ton of problems from the previous Bush administration. 


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## Macfury

He inherited problems from Bush--then either made them worse or did not improve them at all.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And I suppose you figure he created all of the problems as soon his took office, as opposed to inheriting a ton of problems from the previous Bush administration.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump claims 'serious voter fraud' in NH, 2 other states but offers no evidence*

_...he tweeted that “in addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”

But the president-elect didn’t provide any evidence to back up his allegations of voter fraud.

*Trump may have been referring to a couple of fake stories on conspiracy websites* that claim that he actually beat Clinton in the popular vote.

Non-partisan fact checkers say there’s no evidence of “millions of people” voting illegally._​
(NewHampshire1)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Trump claims 'serious voter fraud' in NH, 2 other states but offers no evidence*
> 
> 
> 
> _...he tweeted that “in addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”
> 
> 
> 
> But the president-elect didn’t provide any evidence to back up his allegations of voter fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump may have been referring to a couple of fake stories on conspiracy websites* that claim that he actually beat Clinton in the popular vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Non-partisan fact checkers say there’s no evidence of “millions of people” voting illegally._​
> 
> 
> (NewHampshire1)



Never let the facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory!


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----------



## eMacMan

Hillaries comments about Trump refusing to accept the results if he lost, seem to have put her in a very awkward position. Neatly resolved by having "Anyone But Clinton" Stein initiate the call for recounts. Suddenly "Can't Raise a Dime" Stein raises twice as much in three days as she did during her entire presidential campaign. 

I am thinking Soros, but not ruling out the DNC and/or the Clinton foundation are the big contributors.

Hillary does love to wage war by proxy.


----------



## Macfury

I've read that Marc Elias, heading up the Dem legal team on recounts, has accepted Soros cash for vote challenges previously.

Stein's recount challenge is really sloppy. Missed the deadline for Pennsylvania. Wisconsin won't hand count and will be ready in time for the Electoral College vote. Michigan only certified the vote yesterday. She's really looking like a gabbling fool when she talks about this stuff--can't explain why she won't challenge New Hampshire, which Hillary only won by 4,000 votes.



eMacMan said:


> Hillaries comments about Trump refusing to accept the results if he lost, seem to have put her in a very awkward position. Neatly resolved by having "Anyone But Clinton" Stein initiate the call for recounts. Suddenly "Can't Raise a Dime" Stein raises twice as much in three days as she did during her entire presidential campaign.
> 
> I am thinking Soros, but not ruling out the DNC and/or the Clinton foundation are the big contributors.
> 
> Hillary does love to wage war by proxy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Only 14 more posts (13 after this) till we hit 10,000. Hoo-eee! Who's it gonna be?


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## Macfury

I think this cartoon sums up Obama's eight years in office. He will leave no legacy except the temporary destruction of the Democrat party:


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Listening to Sen. Rand Paul being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer on CNN. He is making a great deal of sense. Sadly, I don't think that Trump will heed any of his words (e.g., he would support Mitt Romney for Sect. of State, but not the others being mentioned). We shall see.


If I were Trump I might look at Petraeus for SOS. I'm who else is there who would fit in his world.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump is proposing a Constitutional Amendment to take away US citizenship from flag burners and a Constitutional Amendment requiring a President to be a taxpayer. I think that both initiatives will fail. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

We cannot see, without a link.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump is proposing a Constitutional Amendment to take away US citizenship from flag burners and a Constitutional Amendment requiring a President to be a taxpayer. I think that both initiatives will fail. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> We cannot see, without a link.


A link and a wink. 

Donald Trump: Burn the flag, go to jail - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Trump is proposing a Constitutional Amendment to take away US citizenship from flag burners and a Constitutional Amendment requiring a President to be a taxpayer. I think that both initiatives will fail. We shall see.


Since the Supreme Court has already ruled that the government cannot take away ones citizenship, i don't see much steam in the citizenship issue. As for the President being a tax payer, i thought he was already. That being, I worked in procedures for years and have always found that those that make the rules usually do not bring in changes which will impact them.... no steam on that one either.


----------



## Macfury

I don't believe Trump is proposing Constitutional Amendments for either--that's just his personal opinion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Since the Supreme Court has already ruled that the government cannot take away ones citizenship, i don't see much steam in the citizenship issue. As for the President being a tax payer, i thought he was already. That being, I worked in procedures for years and have always found that those that make the rules usually do not bring in changes which will impact them.... no steam on that one either.



If Trump takes no salary, he will not be a taxpayer, since he already has all of his income taxes "cancelled" by his previous debts. Brilliant system, if you think about it. Unless you're one of the millions of actual taxpayers who has to pay extra so that he doesn't have to. 


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## Macfury

Good thing too--because Trump never said anything about such a Constitutional Amendment.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If Trump takes no salary, he will not be a taxpayer, since he already has all of his income taxes "cancelled" by his previous debts. Brilliant system, if you think about it. Unless you're one of the millions of actual taxpayers who has to pay extra so that he doesn't have to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Inside Trump and Romney's Jean Georges dinner - CNNPolitics.com

I wonder what shall come out of this meeting? I also wonder who picked up the tab????


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> If I were Trump I might look at Petraeus for SOS. I'm who else is there who would fit in his world.


Petraeus is interesting because he shared that one piece of classified info with his lover/biographer and was pilloried--as he should have been. If the Dems balk at choosing him for SOS, they will need to defend their decision to run Hillary with her infinitely worse baggage of mishandling classified information.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Petraeus is interesting because he shared that one piece of classified info with his lover/biographer and was pilloried--as he should have been. If the Dems balk at choosing him for SOS, they will need to defend their decision to run Hillary with her infinitely worse baggage of mishandling classified information.


Bingo! That's exactly why I would choose him......he double edged sword strikes again!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Bingo! That's exactly why I would choose him......he double edged sword strikes again!


However, this "double edged sword" cuts both ways ................ and we all get sliced.


----------



## Dr.G.

Mike Pence's key role in building Team Trump - CNNPolitics.com

At least Pence is seemingly happy these days.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Mike Pence's key role in building Team Trump - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> At least Pence is seemingly happy these days.


Just wait, once The Donald is President he won't be as pensive.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Just wait, once The Donald is President he won't be as pensive.


:lmao:

Of course, if Trump steps down as president, Pence would have an administration he could work with .................. but to what end, remains to be seen/speculated. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao:
> 
> Of course, if Trump steps down as president, Pence would have an administration he could work with .................. but to what end, remains to be seen/speculated. Paix, mon ami.


I've often wondered as to the irony of the Vice President.. The President chooses you because you would be a good running mate and, if need be, the next President but you are not good enough to run now....... yet no one actually votes for you.....yet you could still be President.


----------



## Macfury

Also the way that US VP candidates are disposed of. You're almost less than you were before you began--a failed candidate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I've often wondered as to the irony of the Vice President.. The President chooses you because you would be a good running mate and, if need be, the next President but you are not good enough to run now....... yet no one actually votes for you.....yet you could still be President.


Actually, they do vote for the VP. At the onset of the US, the VP was selected rather than elected. Now, they run as a team.

"Even the Constitution itself was uncertain—a work-in-progress with serious design flaws. The election ultimately centered on one of these flaws—a fundamental constitutional defect in the presidential and vice presidential voting process. As originally drafted, the Constitution did not differentiate between presidential and vice presidential candidates. Each presidential elector cast two votes, and regardless of political affiliation, the man who received the most votes became president and the runner-up became vice president; any candidate could win either office. When two candidates were tied, the election was thrown into the House, where each state had one vote, to be decided by a majority of the delegation. In 1796, this produced a Federalist president (John Adams) and a Republican vice president (Thomas Jefferson). In 1800, it created a tied election in which both candidates were entitled to claim the presidency, and even the backup procedure of deciding the election in the House almost failed; it took six days and thirty-six ballots to break the deadlock. This defect was resolved by the Twelfth Amendment in 1804, which provided separate balloting for president and vice president."

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/histo...tion-1800-story-crisis-controversy-and-change


----------



## Macfury

Interesting post, Dr. G.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Interesting post, Dr. G.


Merci. How is Life treating you these days, mon ami?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Also the way that US VP candidates are disposed of. You're almost less than you were before you began--a failed candidate.


Interesting point as well, Macfury. I recall reading about how Ike was considering dumping Nixon when the story of a secret slush fund became known to the public. It took Nixon's "Checkers speech" to rally people behind him to urge Ike to keep him on the ticket.


----------



## Dr.G.

Was it a bait and switch? Trump goes full Republican - CNN.com

Was it a bait and switch? I posed the same question to my wife as each person was named to his cabinet and inner circle. Other than his daughter and son-in-law, it looks as it is "happy days are here again" for the Republican Party. And the party leaders were worried about a Trump victory. :lmao: Now, as for the Democratic party ............... they should have went with Sanders. :-( Such is Life.


----------



## Macfury

CNN couldn't be more wrong. Other than Romney (maybe) Trump supporters are applauding his appointments because both Bush presidents appointed such awful, middle-of-the-road candidates. The establishment Republicans don't like these choices at all.



Dr.G. said:


> Was it a bait and switch? Trump goes full Republican - CNN.com
> 
> Was it a bait and switch? I posed the same question to my wife as each person was named to his cabinet and inner circle. Other than his daughter and son-in-law, it looks as it is "happy days are here again" for the Republican Party. And the party leaders were worried about a Trump victory. :lmao: Now, as for the Democratic party ............... they should have went with Sanders. :-( Such is Life.


----------



## Dr.G.

"UPDATE: Trump said he would no longer have day-to-day responsibility for driving his businesses into bankruptcy and would instead focus on bankrupting the country." Andy Borowitz. 

"Put your confidence in us. Give us your faith and your blessing, and under Providence all will be well. We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire. Neither the sudden shock of battle nor the long-drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down. Give us the tools and we will finish the job." Winston Churchill Feb. 9th, 1941


----------



## wonderings

Dr.G. said:


> "UPDATE: Trump said he would no longer have day-to-day responsibility for driving his businesses into bankruptcy and would instead focus on bankrupting the country." Andy Borowitz.


So government as normal?


----------



## Dr.G.

wonderings said:


> So government as normal?


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/u...t_tnt_20161130&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

An interesting article. I would like to see Romney named as Sect. of State, given the choices that are being discussed. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> "UPDATE: Trump said he would no longer have day-to-day responsibility for driving his businesses into bankruptcy and would instead focus on bankrupting the country." Andy Borowitz.


Well I think he's just a little too late, 
Reagan, Bush and Obama beat him to the plate.
Their MIC buds are raking in the dough.
While the nation sinks below,
A tsunami of banksters on the take.

Me


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> Well I think he's just a little too late,
> Reagan, Bush and Obama beat him to the plate.
> Their MIC buds are raking in the dough.
> While the nation sinks below,
> A tsunami of banksters on the take.
> 
> Me


I don't get why people are worried about this with Trump. How many trillions of dollars is the US in debt already and going further down without Trump running the country? Politicians do not know business... now to see if a Businessman knows politics.


----------



## Dr.G.

wonderings said:


> I don't get why people are worried about this with Trump. How many trillions of dollars is the US in debt already and going further down without Trump running the country? Politicians do not know business... now to see if a Businessman knows politics.


"The business of America is business." Pres. Calvin Coolidge.

We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

China warns Trump: Good luck bringing jobs back to America - Nov. 30, 2016

"The business of America is business." Pres. Calvin Coolidge.

And the business of China is to take away American business when it comes to jobs.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I don't get why people are worried about this with Trump. How many trillions of dollars is the US in debt already and going further down without Trump running the country? Politicians do not know business... now to see if a Businessman knows politics.


The national debt doubled over Obama's eight years--not a even a hint of restraint shown. And his trillon-dollar stimulus program was largely diverted into paying the salaries of unionized government employees at the state level. It's only now--before Trump even takes office--that Democrats are becoming deficit hawks.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The national debt doubled over Obama's eight years--not a even a hint of restraint shown. And his trillon-dollar stimulus program was largely diverted into paying the salaries of unionized government employees at the state level. It's only now--before Trump even takes office--that Democrats are becoming deficit hawks.


The size of national debt has always been overstated as to its impact.....what you really need to look at is the debt to GDP ratio.....whether a country or a Province that is the real red flag.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The size of national debt has always been overstated as to its impact.....what you really need to look at is the debt to GDP ratio.....whether a country or a Province that is the real red flag.


Debt to GDP was .76 in 2008--now 1.04--the 11th worst in the world.


----------



## Dr.G.

Who knows ........................ Miracles could happen. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Debt to GDP was .76 in 2008--now 1.04--the 11th worst in the world.


Maybe they could cut back a bit on those 800 military bases they have imposed on the more than 70 countries around the world.... 

"...maintaining bases and troops overseas cost $85 to $100 billion in fiscal year 2014; the total with bases and troops in warzones is $160 to $200 billion."​
That ain't chump change.....

But alas, maintaining an empire is expensive work....


----------



## Macfury

Trump has been criticized for wanting to pare down that footprint.



CubaMark said:


> Maybe they could cut back a bit on those 800 military bases they have imposed on the more than 70 countries around the world....
> 
> "...maintaining bases and troops overseas cost $85 to $100 billion in fiscal year 2014; the total with bases and troops in warzones is $160 to $200 billion."​
> That ain't chump change.....
> 
> But alas, maintaining an empire is expensive work....


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...5dd71c-b66c-11e6-939c-91749443c5e5_video.html

Dan Quayle for Sect. of State .......................... now there is a blast from the past.


----------



## eMacMan

Meanwhile in a very Palinesque maneuver, Someone named Sarah has anointed herself Secretary of Veterans Affairs. 

Can't find any evidence that the Combover was consulted or even informed.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Meanwhile in a very Palinesque maneuver, Someone named Sarah has anointed herself Secretary of Veterans Affairs.
> 
> Can't find any evidence that the Combover was consulted or even informed.


This along with the Sect. of the Interior. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Curious what others think about the deal to use taxpayer money to keep 1000 Carrier jobs in Indiana. 

"Carrier is getting a modest $7 million in financial incentives over the next 10 years from the state of Indiana to keep 1,000 jobs at an Indianapolis plant, sources familiar with the deal tells CNN."

How Donald Trump got Carrier to stay - Dec. 1, 2016


----------



## Macfury

That isn't taxpayer money as far as I'd heard. Just tax incentives.



Dr.G. said:


> Curious what others think about the deal to use taxpayer money to keep 1000 Carrier jobs in Indiana.
> 
> "Carrier is getting a modest $7 million in financial incentives over the next 10 years from the state of Indiana to keep 1,000 jobs at an Indianapolis plant, sources familiar with the deal tells CNN."
> 
> How Donald Trump got Carrier to stay - Dec. 1, 2016


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That isn't taxpayer money as far as I'd heard. Just tax incentives.


I think that Indiana is footing the bill. Still, that means $7 million less coming in to their coffers.


----------



## CubaMark

To cite one of my favourite Fawlty Towers moments, _*"t'ick as a plank"*_

_"You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work which is visible in every way.... Parkistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor and I will personally do it...Please convey to the Pakistani people that they are amazing and all Pakistanis I have known are exceptional people."
_​—president-elect Trump in recent phone conversation 
with prime minister Nawaz Sharif, according to 
Pakistan-released transcript​
(Doonesbury / CNN)

https://vimeo.com/133402022


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I think that Indiana is footing the bill. Still, that means $7 million less coming in to their coffers.



Exactly. Sets a pretty expensive precedent of favouritism if this is how he plans to make America great again. So much for supply-demand economics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Sets a pretty expensive precedent of favouritism if this is how he plans to make America great again. So much for supply-demand economics.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's trickle down economics, stupid.  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I think that Indiana is footing the bill. Still, that means $7 million less coming in to their coffers.


Good! Government should have far less money in its coffers.


----------



## Macfury

Not federal money.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Sets a pretty expensive precedent of favouritism if this is how he plans to make America great again. So much for supply-demand economics.


----------



## Macfury

According to Nawaz Sharif...sure. Sounds like you are having a _Fawlty Towers_ moment, CM.



CubaMark said:


> To cite one of my favourite Fawlty Towers moments, _*"t'ick as a plank"*_
> 
> _"You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work which is visible in every way.... Parkistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor and I will personally do it...Please convey to the Pakistani people that they are amazing and all Pakistanis I have known are exceptional people."
> _​—president-elect Trump in recent phone conversation
> with prime minister Nawaz Sharif, according to
> Pakistan-released transcript​
> (Doonesbury / CNN)
> 
> https://vimeo.com/133402022


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This is the kind of thing we have to look forward to in Trump's America. 










http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...ined-for-hours-refused-entry-to-u-s-1.3874563


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> This is the kind of thing we have to look forward to in Trump's America.


You mean exactly like Obama's America?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> This is the kind of thing we have to look forward to in Trump's America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian photojournalist detained for hours, refused entry to U.S. - Home | As It Happens | CBC Radio
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Macfury said:


> You mean exactly like Obama's America?


And Bush's


----------



## Dr.G.

When Trump dined out with Romney, he had frog legs. I guess he is not so much "draining the swamp" as eating all that lives in the swamp.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama's gift to Trump: A 'pretty solid' economy - Dec. 2, 2016

Well, when all is said and done, Pres. Obama is leaving America in far better shape than when he took office 8 years ago. Of course, some will disagree, but argue with the facts and not me. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, when all is said and done, Pres. Obama is leaving America in far better shape than when he took office 8 years ago. Of course, some will disagree, but argue with the facts and not me. Paix, mes amis.


I would hope he would leave it in better shape. He could probably have achieved this dismal record by doing nothing. His policies have severely hampered recovery. 3.5% GDP growth in one quarter is encouraging, but not outstanding--let's see what the revised figures look like a month form now. Likewise, the low unemployment rate is largely achieved by people leaving the workforce, not hiring.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I would hope he would leave it in better shape. He could probably have achieved this dismal record by doing nothing. His policies have severely hampered recovery. 3.5% GDP growth in one quarter is encouraging, but not outstanding--let's see what the revised figures look like a month form now. Likewise, the low unemployment rate is largely achieved by people leaving the workforce, not hiring.


Once again, let's just agree to disagree, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Once again, let's just agree to disagree, mon ami. Paix.


There can be no disagreement over the unemployment figures. They are low because people are no longer looking for jobs and no longer counted. Labour participation rate was 68% when Obama took office--now just 63%. No matter your political persuasion, this is no cause to celebrate.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There can be no disagreement over the unemployment figures. They are low because people are no longer looking for jobs and no longer counted. Labour participation rate was 68% when Obama took office--now just 63%. No matter your political persuasion, this is no cause to celebrate.


How good were the 10.9 million jobs under Obama? - Nov. 4, 2016

U.S. economy adds 178,000 jobs in November, jobless rate falls to 4.6% - Article - BNN

Well, I guess we look at statistics differently then. No problem. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.ft.com/content/fd19907e-b8d4-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d

Interesting. I never felt it was wise to ignore Taiwan just to please China.


----------



## Dr.G.

‘It’s a hallmark of corruption’: Palin slams Trump’s Carrier deal | New York Post

I don't think that this is going to help Sarah Palin's chances at getting a cabinet position in the Trump White House. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Lunenburg has 2,300 people. If 230 were looking for work, the unemployment rate would be 10%. Using your approach, if 115 of them stopped looking for work because they were despondent, the unemployment rate would now be 5%. This is not an achievement.



Dr.G. said:


> How good were the 10.9 million jobs under Obama? - Nov. 4, 2016
> 
> U.S. economy adds 178,000 jobs in November, jobless rate falls to 4.6% - Article - BNN
> 
> Well, I guess we look at statistics differently then. No problem. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> How good were the 10.9 million jobs under Obama? - Nov. 4, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. economy adds 178,000 jobs in November, jobless rate falls to 4.6% - Article - BNN
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess we look at statistics differently then. No problem. Paix, mon ami.



You can present an airtight argument, Dr. G, and will not make one iota of difference. It's all about world views and people's reluctance to even examine their own let alone change it. It's why people get heated talking politics. In my view, Obama has added not just to the economy but also the honour and integrity of the nation. He is a brilliant man whose kind we will not see for a long time. At least 4 to 8 years while the knuckle walkers take over. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You can present an airtight argument, Dr. G, and will not make one iota of difference. It's all about world views and people's reluctance to even examine their own let alone change it. It's why people get heated talking politics. In my view, Obama has added not just to the economy but also the honour and integrity of the nation. He is a brilliant man whose kind we will not see for a long time. At least 4 to 8 years while the knuckle walkers take over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent points re Pres. Obama, Frank, especially your comment about his bringing "honour and integrity" to the office of the presidency, and to the American people. I shall miss his openness and humor the most. Can't remember a president so much "of the people" as Pres. Obama. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

President Obama sings 'Jingle Bells' - CNN Video

Pres. Obama might have a second career as a singer????????? 

I do agree with his closing remarks that there is more that unites us than divides us, even here in ehMacLand. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

OK then Freddie,present an airtight argument on why the unemployment rate looks good right now because given the total number of people in the workforce, those numbers are terrible. 

Obama has presented a record of eight years of imperial presidency. The international standing of the US has dwindled significantly. Through such deliberate choices as allowing Iran to fill the power vacuum left by the US in the Middle East, we have witnessed collapsed governments in Syria, Libya and Egypt and a complete failure of the"pivot to Asia." Those inside a "progressive" box may have enjoyed the last four to eight years. The rest of us have watched a detached, hectoring bully ushering in the decline of his once-thriving country while he performs social engineering experiments on the public and builds a Euro-style, post-capitalist welfare state. If my goal had been to preside over the decline of the US, I couldn't have done a better job than Obama has. Who needs Manchurian candidates when you've found a home-grown wrecking ball?

I support Donald Trump not because he was the ideal candidate, but because he's the only one with the guts required to repudiate not only the previous eight years--but the Bush era before it. He will root out the Obama legacy and salt the earth where it was planted, so that its place knows it no more. Given the concern that "progressives" have shown the rest of the country over the past eight years as they steamrollered all opposition with their kook-fringe ideas, I'm not feeling too bad about what's going to happen next. 




Freddie_Biff said:


> You can present an airtight argument, Dr. G, and will not make one iota of difference. It's all about world views and people's reluctance to even examine their own let alone change it. It's why people get heated talking politics. In my view, Obama has added not just to the economy but also the honour and integrity of the nation. He is a brilliant man whose kind we will not see for a long time. At least 4 to 8 years while the knuckle walkers take over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> OK then Freddie,present an airtight argument on why the unemployment rate looks good right now because given the total number of people in the workforce, those numbers are terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has presented a record of eight years of imperial presidency. The international standing of the US has dwindled significantly. Through such deliberate choices as allowing Iran to fill the power vacuum left by the US in the Middle East, we have witnessed collapsed governments in Syria, Libya and Egypt and a complete failure of the"pivot to Asia." Those inside a "progressive" box may have enjoyed the last four to eight years. The rest of us have watched a detached, hectoring bully ushering in the decline of his once-thriving country while he performs social engineering experiments on the public and builds a Euro-style, post-capitalist welfare state. If my goal had been to preside over the decline of the US, I couldn't have done a better job than Obama has. Who needs Manchurian candidates when you've found a home-grown wrecking ball?
> 
> 
> 
> I support Donald Trump not because he was the ideal candidate, but because he's the only one with the guts required to repudiate not only the previous eight years--but the Bush era before it. He will root out the Obama legacy and salt the earth where it was planted, so that its place knows it no more. Given the concern that "progressives" have shown the rest of the country over the past eight years as they steamrollered all opposition with their kook-fringe ideas, I'm not feeling too bad about what's going to happen next.



Interesting points, mon ami, which only amplifies the problem. You see Obama as a villain; I see him as a hero. Some see his extensive use of drones in combat as cold and heartless, especially with the number of civilian children casualties as collateral damage; others cheer the corresponding lack of American casualties as a good thing. Some are inspired by Obama's oratorical prowess and his sense of humour, others look to Trump as a potentially great leader. Like I said, it all depends on your world view. Trump won fair and square, for the most part, and his administration will represent a bold departure from the status quo. So far it's had a positive effect on the stock market. But he's the same man he was before, willfully ignorant of politics, still running his kingdom from Trump Tower, appointing advisors with questionable values, and basically shaking things up. I have no problem with a shake up, but it's what comes next that is potentially very scary. Make no mistake; this protectionist admin will not be good for Canada. He is also surrounded by yes man, with precious little to counterbalance his impulsivity. We shall see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

What I am finding interesting is how Libertarians in the US, members of the Tea Party in the US, and even some fiscal conservative Republicans in the US are starting to get worried at the various things that a Trump presidency will do for America and the world. While I am glad that some of the Carrier workers have kept their jobs, this sort of corporations holding the government hostage is not going to be helpful in the long run. Trump seemingly wants to be an interventionist and isolationist at the same time with the cabinet he is creating. He is "draining the swamp" by putting in a wealthier class of "critter".

We shall have to see what happens to the millions of Americans who voted for Trump when he backtracks on many of his promises. This should be seen in about two years during the mid-term elections. Sadly, unless the Democratic party comes up with some sort of direction, many people will just not come out to vote. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Lunenburg has 2,300 people. If 230 were looking for work, the unemployment rate would be 10%. Using your approach, if 115 of them stopped looking for work because they were despondent, the unemployment rate would now be 5%. This is not an achievement.


Well, regardless of your political point of view.........this is an accurate statement. I do not indict Mr. Obama for this. How do you accurately track those who either do not want to work or have given up. Just merely saying a drop in those who either give up or don't collect beefits is unjust. Number are wonderful things, you can make them say anything. The real issue is what are the numbers of the unrecorded. No matter the issue this is the failure of policy.................providing of course you think that government should entertain such policy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well, regardless of your political point of view.........this is an accurate statement. I do not indict Mr. Obama for this. How do you accurately track those who either do not want to work or have given up. Just merely saying a drop in those who either give up or don't collect beefits is unjust. Number are wonderful things, you can make them say anything. The real issue is what are the numbers of the unrecorded. No matter the issue this is the failure of policy.................providing of course you think that government should entertain such policy.


What I don't understand is how the "despondent" figure has been derived. College enrollments are up at community colleges that offer trade-like programs for adults and high school grads alike. So, are they out of the workforce because they are despondent of trying to further their education to get a better job than just a minimum wage job?

As well, the Dept. of Labor stats have always had problems with those leaving the paid work force to start their own businesses ......... as we see here in Lunenburg, which is why we have a lower real unemployment rate than the NS average.


----------



## Dr.G.

When a President-elect picked a Romney for his cabinet - CNN.com

Might Trump be a reincarnation of Richard Nixon????


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> What I don't understand is how the "despondent" figure has been derived. College enrollments are up at community colleges that offer trade-like programs for adults and high school grads alike. So, are they out of the workforce because they are despondent of trying to further their education to get a better job than just a minimum wage job?
> 
> As well, the Dept. of Labor stats have always had problems with those leaving the paid work force to start their own businesses ......... as we see here in Lunenburg, which is why we have a lower real unemployment rate than the NS average.


OK, let's run with this for a minute. Let's assume that the 95 million people in the US who have stopped looking for work are now in college or have suddenly been bitten by the entrepreneurial bug.

What evidence do you have to support this argument? 

Are post-secondary enrolments up by 95 million people? Where are the numbers?

Where is the evidence, from the US Chamber of Commerce, or anywhere else for that matter, that there are 95 million people who recently opened a business?

Or, any combination of 95 million people from the two scenarios you presented above?

Even assuming (a bloody big assumption) that the 95 million count is off by 50% still means that the officially quoted 4.6% unemployment rate is significantly in error.

Related (apologies for the language):

What a Cruel Joke



> Today's BS from the BLS falsely claiming a 4.6% unemployment rate...conveniently LOWER than it was back in 2007 just before Barry turned the White House into the Red Shed in 2008...is obviously concocted to preserve his "legacy."


----------



## FeXL

Well, 100% of Bill's Wife's supporters were disappointed once. Nearly 50% of them are going to be hit twice...

42% of Clinton Voters Believe Recount Will Show She Won42% of Clinton Voters Believe Recount Will Show She Won | Frontpage Mag



> If you're wondering who could be stupid enough to be sending money to Jill Stein, numbers like these help answer the question. Nearly half of Hillary voters believe the recount will show that she won. Those are a signpost of just how cut off from reality much of Hillary's base is. It also shows that a significant percentage of Democrats simply will not accept Trump's legitimacy.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Interesting points, mon ami, which only amplifies the problem. You see Obama as a villain; I see him as a hero. Some see his extensive use of drones in combat as cold and heartless, especially with the number of civilian children casualties as collateral damage; others cheer the corresponding lack of American casualties as a good thing. Some are inspired by Obama's oratorical prowess and his sense of humour, others look to Trump as a potentially great leader. Like I said, it all depends on your world view. Trump won fair and square, for the most part, and his administration will represent a bold departure from the status quo. So far it's had a positive effect on the stock market. But he's the same man he was before, willfully ignorant of politics, still running his kingdom from Trump Tower, appointing advisors with questionable values, and basically shaking things up. I have no problem with a shake up, but it's what comes next that is potentially very scary. Make no mistake; this protectionist admin will not be good for Canada. He is also surrounded by yes man, with precious little to counterbalance his impulsivity. We shall see.


Here is the problem at the heart of things. The balance of power in the US has shifted so far to Washington that any time the president scratches his butt, it causes problems for one state after the other. Some good examples involve gay marriage and Obamacare. Bear with me here, because I don't want to discuss the actual issues.

If gay marriage and publicly-funded health care had been allowed to be decided at the state level in a way that respected each state's unique culture, the country would have been at peace. With an over-reaching federal government and Supreme Court, each local issue is decided at the federal level for all states. Power brokers can't seem to help themselves--they rush through federal laws and federal statutes and then slam it home with a Supreme Court case. Under this administration we even have an effort to federalize education using common core.

In recent succession you have George Bush's administration making gay marriage illegal in all states, and Obama's making gay marriage legal in all states. Both represent the worst of federal overreach.

These problems will only get worse if the federal government continues to grab power from the states and anger will continue to be directed at the president for exercising that power. Only by limiting the power of the federal government to traditionally constitutional areas will this problem improve. The president shouldn't be capable of making such a huge difference in people's lives.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Here is the problem at the heart of things. The balance of power in the US has shifted so far to Washington that any time the president scratches his butt, it causes problems for one state after the other. Some good examples involve gay marriage and Obamacare. Bear with me here, because I don't want to discuss the actual issues.
> 
> 
> 
> If gay marriage and publicly-funded health care had been allowed to be decided at the state level in a way that respected each state's unique culture, the country would have been at peace. With an over-reaching federal government and Supreme Court, each local issue is decided at the federal level for all states. Power brokers can't seem to help themselves--they rush through federal laws and federal statutes and then slam it home with a Supreme Court case. Under this administration we even have an effort to federalize education using common core.
> 
> 
> 
> In recent succession you have George Bush's administration making gay marriage illegal in all states, and Obama's making gay marriage legal in all states. Both represent the worst of federal overreach.
> 
> 
> 
> These problems will only get worse if the federal government continues to grab power from the states and anger will continue to be directed at the president for exercising that power. Only by limiting the power of the federal government to traditionally constitutional areas will this problem improve. The president shouldn't be capable of making such a huge difference in people's lives.



You make a good point here, and the implementation of federal laws can indeed be decisive and divisive. However, the Constitution in protecting civil liberties (what we call our Charter of Rights and Freedoms) should be consistent across the country, in my opinion. If everyone should have the right to own a gun, then everyone should also have equal protection under the law. Otherwise we're not really talking about a nation anymore, but rather a loose collection of individual nation-states connected by common currency and a flag but vastly different laws and rights. I'd say lack of consistency is a big part of the USA problem.


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## Macfury

I would say that consistency is the problem. If you left states to make the decisions for themselves, their wouldn't be such divisiveness. The US _is_ actually a loose collection of nation states with a federal government authorized to do very little. That was the foundation of its success.

The Constitution protects civil liberties but doesn't guarantee you'll get exactly what you want.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would say that consistency is the problem. If you left states to make the decisions for themselves, their wouldn't be such divisiveness. The US _is_ actually a loose collection of nation states with a federal government authorized to do very little. That was the foundation of its success.
> 
> 
> 
> The Constitution protects civil liberties but doesn't guarantee you'll get exactly what you want.



According to your argument, then, civil liberties can't have a universal meaning across all states. Hence, marriage between homosexuals is allowed in some places but not in others. And places where it is now legal may may it illegal. That's not a lot of protection for civil liberties if there's not any consistency. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

That's exactly what I mean. Forcing individuals to recognize homosexual marriage is not a universal value. Neither is socialized healthcare. Perhaps over time people's views will change--they were already changing on a state by state basis regarding gay marriage. If you can't rest until you force these ideas down the throats of people who don't believe in them--NOW!--then continue to expect a horribly divided nation.

The 13th Amendment to the Constitution abolished slavery in such a way that was inclusive, achieved through consultation and permanent. It could not have turned on a dime, nor be turned back on a dime.



Freddie_Biff said:


> According to your argument, then, civil liberties can't have a universal meaning across all states. Hence, marriage between homosexuals is allowed in some places but not in others. And places where it is now legal may may it illegal. That's not a lot of protection for civil liberties if there's not any consistency.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, it has only been about a month since Trump was elected and already the benefits are starting to roll in. US unemployment rate fell to 4.6 percent in November 2016 from 4.9 percent in the previous month. At this rate, under a Trump presidency, the US unemployment rate will be under 1% by this time next year ............. and those people will mainly be Democrats looking for work, or pollsters. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, it has only been about a month since Trump was elected and already the benefits are starting to roll in. US unemployment rate fell to 4.6 percent in November 2016 from 4.9 percent in the previous month. At this rate, under a Trump presidency, the US unemployment rate will be under 1% by this time next year ............. and those people will mainly be Democrats looking for work, or pollsters. We shall see.


The way that this number was achieved looks good on nobody. Declining labour force participation is bad all around.


----------



## CubaMark

_*Forget "amateur hour" - we're looking at "amateur four years" here....*_

*Donald Trump keeps confirming fears about his diplomatic skills*










One of the chief concerns of President-elect Donald Trump's detractors during the presidential campaign was that the brash and notoriously loose-lipped real estate executive wouldn't be able to handle the delicate balancing act that is diplomacy. It's one thing to make wild claims domestically; it's another to inflame a fellow world power with a careless word or two.

Today, a fellow world power -- China -- is inflamed.

And Trump's controversial conversation with Taiwan's leader, which broke nearly four decades of protocol when it comes to U.S.-China relations, harks back to another controversial bit of diplomacy: Trump's first big foreign visit as the Republican nominee to Mexico.

* * *​
Trump explained that it was Taiwan who initiated the conversation, and he downplayed it as a "congratulatory call."



> The President of Taiwan CALLED ME today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency. Thank you!
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2016





> Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call.
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2016


But a spokesman in the Taiwanese president's office clarified to Reuters that the call was agreed to beforehand.

"Of course both sides agreed ahead of time before making contact," spokesman Alex Huang said in response to Trump's tweet.

Taiwan's government also said the two sides discussed "strengthening bilateral relations" and talked about their "close economic, political and security ties" -- all words likely to make China cringe and suggestive of a more in-depth conversation than just a congratulatory call.
​(Independent UK)


----------



## heavyall

Trump came out of that one looking like the only adult in the room. If that's what you call "amateur hour", I hope we see more of it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The way that this number was achieved looks good on nobody. Declining labour force participation is bad all around.


Yes, but Trump is making it all great again ........... and in only 25 days since he was elected. Imagine what he can do in four years ............ in eight years ...............???? Wow, the US is really going to become great once again. Hope there is room for him up on Mount Rushmore. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Trump came out of that one looking like the only adult in the room. If that's what you call "amateur hour", I hope we see more of it.


About time the US started acting like a sovereign nation again. The US isn't supposed to speak to Taiwan because China wants to crush it militarily--and the US is supposed to avoid stepping on China's tender tootsies?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> About time the US started acting like a sovereign nation again. The US isn't supposed to speak to Taiwan because China wants to crush it militarily--and the US is supposed to avoid stepping on China's tender tootsies?


Damn right, Macfury. America First .......... and foremost. "My country right or wrong" ..... "Love it or leave it" ..... "I regret that I have but one life to give to my country."


----------



## CubaMark

A Woman Just Stood Up To Trump?s Latest Outburst On Twitter ? And America Is Cheering Her On


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> A Woman Just Stood Up To Trump?s Latest Outburst On Twitter ? And America Is Cheering Her On


Thing is Trump is right. SNL is crap and more so especially lately. It was once funny. Too bad.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Thing is Trump is right. SNL is crap and more so especially lately. It was once funny. Too bad.


'SNL' mocks Trump's Twitter use - CNN Video :lmao::clap::lmao:

Well, Alec Baldwin said he would stop his Trump impersonation when Trump releases his tax returns. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump now considering more than four for secretary of state, Conway says - CNNPolitics.com

An interesting addition to the Sect. of State list given Trump's call to Taiwan. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> A Woman Just Stood Up To Trump?s Latest Outburst On Twitter ? And America Is Cheering Her On


Just another snowflake gasbag!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, but Trump is making it all great again ........... and in only 25 days since he was elected. Imagine what he can do in four years ............ in eight years ...............???? Wow, the US is really going to become great once again. Hope there is room for him up on Mount Rushmore. Paix, mon ami.















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## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Thing is Trump is right. SNL is crap and more so especially lately. It was once funny. Too bad.




Alec Baldwin nails Trump. Every. Time. And Kate McKinnon nails Kellyanne Conway, as well as Hillary Clinton. One needs only a sense of humour to see it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Well, goodbye Washington, Jefferson, T. Roosevelt and Lincoln. Hello ........... ???


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Alec Baldwin bails Trump. Every. Time. And Kate McKinnon nails Kellyanne Conway, as well as Hillary Clinton. One needs only a sense of humour to see it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nixon never liked Dan Aykroyd's portrayal of him, but Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Obama never complained over the SNL crew who portrayed them.


----------



## Macfury

Being funny starts with a decent impression--it's the writing that's so lousy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Alec Baldwin bails Trump. Every. Time. And Kate McKinnon nails Kellyanne Conway, as well as Hillary Clinton. One needs only a sense of humour to see it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Being funny starts with a decent impression--it's the writing that's so lousy.


On that, we agree. They had some good writing during the Clinton-Trump debates, but that came straight from the actual debate transcripts. Last night's skit did not elicit a laugh from me. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Being funny starts with a decent impression--it's the writing that's so lousy.


I have to admit that I have been a SNL fan over the years, but only for certain groups /persons (e.g., the original cast, Al Franken, Mike Myers, Rich Short, et al).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> On that, we agree. They had some good writing during the Clinton-Trump debates, but that came straight from the actual debate transcripts. Last night's skit did not elicit a laugh from me. Paix, mon ami.



Trump actually did retweet the 16 year old student though. Kate McKinnon made a point of stating that as Kellyanne Conway. The rest was of course extrapolated, but not straying far from credibility to be honest. 


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## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> Alec Baldwin nails Trump. Every. Time. And Kate McKinnon nails Kellyanne Conway, as well as Hillary Clinton. One needs only a sense of humour to see it.


Baldwin's impression of Trump is really good, but the material they're giving him is already running thin. It was hilarious the first time, but it's not that funny anymore.

McKinnon plays the same character no matter who she is supposed to be. A good actress, with excellent comedic timing and facial expression, but terrible at celebrity impressions.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> Baldwin's impression of Trump is really good, but the material they're giving him is already running thin. It was hilarious the first time, but it's not that funny anymore.
> 
> McKinnon plays the same character no matter who she is supposed to be. A good actress, with excellent comedic timing and facial expression, but terrible at celebrity impressions.


I agree, heavyall. They should stick to what Trump actually says rather than make up silly Twitter retweets.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I agree, heavyall. They should stick to what Trump actually says rather than make up silly Twitter retweets.



I respectfully disagree. One great aspect of comedy is to start with what's real and then extrapolate from that. Sure, the comedy is uneven for a live show, but Kate's been hitting them out of the park with some of her characters, particularly the one who got abducted by aliens. She's a scene stealer, much like Kirstin Wig, but her Hillary impression is great, especially when Hillary herself appeared beside her as the bartender. And the comedy is not all alt-left as some might suggest. They took some good and warranted shots at Hillary this week for pretty much becoming a hermit. No Al Gore is she. Did you see the skit about the Hillary sightings? 

https://youtu.be/4vb28rCOvnk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I respectfully disagree. One great aspect of comedy is to start with what's real and then extrapolate from that. Sure, the comedy is uneven for a live show, but Kate's been hitting them out of the park with some of her characters, particularly the one who got abducted by aliens. She's a scene stealer, much like Kirstin Wig, but her Hillary impression is great, especially when Hillary herself appeared beside her as the bartender. And the comedy is not all alt-left as some might suggest. They took some good and warranted shots at Hillary this week for pretty much becoming a hermit. No Al Gore is she. Did you see the skit about the Hillary sightings?
> 
> https://youtu.be/4vb28rCOvnk
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Their impersonations are great, but the lines they give them, outside of what the people actually said, are lame at times. The shows in the early days were the classic SNL skits. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Their impersonations are great, but the lines they give them, outside of what the people actually said, are lame at times. The shows in the early days were the classic SNL skits. Paix, mon ami.


Like I stated earlier, they used to be funny. Now they just suck.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Like I stated earlier, they used to be funny. Now they just suck.


I agree. Satire and political humour is very difficult to write on a consistent basis. SNL had its run, but should have term limits like the government it mocks. I guess I am showing my age but I remember the real masters of political satire such as That Was The Week That Was, why even the CBC had some great shows which skewered the government of the day. Unfortunately they don't have anything even close today.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> I agree. Satire and political humour is very difficult to write on a consistent basis. SNL had its run, but should have term limits like the government it mocks. I guess I am showing my age but I remember the real masters of political satire such as That Was The Week That Was, why even the CBC had some great shows which skewered the government of the day. Unfortunately they don't have anything even close today.


Yep, and those who never experienced the CBC's *'This Hour Has Seven Days'* missed the best political satire of the previous century.

https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...days_was_part_of_canadian_tvs_golden_age.html


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Glory Days
Don't let 'em pass you by
Glory Days
In the wink of a young girl's eyes

To write off a show entirely because it doesn't match your selective memory is typical sign of old age. SNL had stinkers even back in the glory days and some gems now and again today. That's how it is with live comedy television. They can't all be good. But this all-or-none dismissivism of some of all y'all says more about you than it does about the shows you watch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Nope--it's perfect accuracy. You seem to be in a sort of doddery haze of golden memory over SNL.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Glory Days
> Don't let 'em pass you by
> Glory Days
> In the wink of a young girl's eyes
> 
> To write off a show entirely because it doesn't match your selective memory is typical sign of old age. SNL had stinkers even back in the glory days and some gems now and again today. That's how it is with live comedy television. They can't all be good. But this all-or-none dismissivism of some of all y'all says more about you than it does about the shows you watch.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nope--it's perfect accuracy. You seem to be in a sort of doddery haze of golden memory over SNL.



Yup. Just me and the rest of the population. Face it old man; you just don't understand what the kids find funny anymore. But fret not: most conservatives and libertarians lack a sense of humour. 










http://americannewsx.com/entertainment/twitter-merciless-trump-tantrum-snl-parody/


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## Macfury

Enjoy being hip riding that old battleship with "the rest of the population" pappy!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. Just me and the rest of the population. Face it old man; you just don't understand what the kids find funny anymore. But fret not: most conservatives and libertarians lack a sense of humour.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Yep, and those who never experienced the CBC's *'This Hour Has Seven Days'* missed the best political satire of the previous century.
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...days_was_part_of_canadian_tvs_golden_age.html


I have watched clips from this show. Very creative. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Glory Days
> Don't let 'em pass you by
> Glory Days
> In the wink of a young girl's eyes
> 
> To write off a show entirely because it doesn't match your selective memory is typical sign of old age. SNL had stinkers even back in the glory days and some gems now and again today. That's how it is with live comedy television. They can't all be good. But this all-or-none dismissivism of some of all y'all says more about you than it does about the shows you watch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True, to a point. SNL was also funnier back in their early days, at least in my opinion.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nope--it's perfect accuracy. You seem to be in a sort of doddery haze of golden memory over SNL.


I guess in my old age I am stuck in that "doddery haze of golden memory". Of course, I remember the early days of TV in the early 50s as well. Such is Life.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. Just me and the rest of the population. Face it old man; you just don't understand what the kids find funny anymore. But fret not: most conservatives and libertarians lack a sense of humour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twitter Is Merciless To Trump's Tantrum About SNL, Alec Baldwin Parody
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who are you calling "old", Frank? Who are you calling a conservative? Who are you calling a libertarian? Who are you ......................... where was I going with this train of thought???????????


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Enjoy being hip riding that old battleship with "the rest of the population" pappy!


You would dance too if you found gold. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Who are you calling "old", Frank? Who are you calling a conservative? Who are you calling a libertarian? Who are you ......................... where was I going with this train of thought???????????



Exactement...je pense. As the French would say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactement...je pense. As the French would say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bon jour, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I guess in my old age I am stuck in that "doddery haze of golden memory". Of course, I remember the early days of TV in the early 50s as well. Such is Life.


Nothing's been funny to you since _Your Show of Shows_?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nothing's been funny to you since _Your Show of Shows_?


:clap::clap: That was a classic show. I also liked Uncle Miltie and Ernie Kovacs as well.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You would dance too if you found gold. Paix, mon ami.


Dr. G., I made that GIF myself. Glad someone recognized it!


----------



## CubaMark

Far too much of SNL's material is just... bad. The only bright spots of late have been Baldwin's Trump and Mckinnon's Hillary (with the exception of Tom Hanks' hosting gig a few weeks ago, in which even the Pumpkin skit was surreally funny).

The glory days of Martin, Belushi, Akroyd, Chase, Radner, Short... good thing we have YouTube.... :-(

_*Now for some real comedy, we just need to turn on the 6 O'clock news!*_

*Trump taps former rival Carson as housing secretary *

U.S. president-elect Donald Trump has chosen former campaign rival Ben Carson to become secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development.​
(CBC)

*Ben Carson may soon oversee the country’s affordable housing. Yes, that Ben Carson.*

Ben Carson may soon oversee the country’s affordable housing. Yes, that Ben Carson. Carson, a retired neurosurgeon and right-wing pundit, told Fox News that President-elect Trump has asked him to be Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. (Trump tweeted that he is “seriously considering” Carson for the post.)

*Carson has already turned down a chance to be Trump’s Secretary of Health and Human Services on the grounds that he is unprepared to run a federal agency. So how is HUD any different? Good question.*

*Carson lacks any relevant experience.* HUD is charged with developing affordable and inclusive housing. Under the Obama administration, it has promoted smart-growth goals, such as linking low-income housing with mass transit.

During Carson’s unsuccessful campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, he never proposed any policies to promote low-cost or integrated housing. *Asked on Fox about his knowledge of HUD’s work, Carson pointed to his experience growing up in a city.*​
(Grist)


----------



## CubaMark

*Congresswoman who used to receive welfare wants to drug test rich people who get tax breaks*

Rep. Gwen Moore (D-WI) has had enough of the growing movement to drug test poor people who need government assistance. So on Tuesday, she’s introducing a bill that she says will make things fairer.

Her “Top 1% Accountability Act” would require anyone claiming itemized tax deductions of over $150,000 in a given year to submit a clean drug test. If a filer doesn’t submit a clean test within three months of filing, he won’t be able to take advantage of tax deductions like the mortgage interest deduction or health insurance tax breaks. Instead he would have to make use of the standard deduction.

Her office has calculated that the people impacted will be those who make at least $500,000 a year. “By drug testing those with itemized deductions over $150,000, this bill will level the playing field for drug testing people who are the recipients of social programs,” a memo on her bill notes.

Moore has a personal stake in the fight. “I am a former welfare recipient,” she explained. “I’ve used food stamps, I’ve received Aid for Families with Dependent Children, Medicaid, Head Start for my kids, Title XX daycare [subsidies]. I’m truly grateful for the social safety net.”​
(ThinkProgress)


----------



## Macfury

Irrespective of my feelings about the way various social safety net programs are run, the notion of a drug test is ridiculous. While I would hate to see someone use taxpayer money to feed a drug habit, the libertarian side of me says that it's nobody's business how the money is used. Drug tests should only be mandatory in cases where safe custody of children is an issue.


----------



## Dr.G.

Republican success opens door to amending U.S. constitution | The Chronicle Herald

Interesting .............. and somewhat scary.


----------



## Dr.G.

Joe Biden leaves the door open for a 2020 run - CNNPolitics.com

Now, this would be nice. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

So, let's recap the stunning success of Barry's economic "stimulus.

Obama’s Stimulus: Five Years of Keynesian Fairy Dust



> According to data from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve’s interactive website, the current recovery (red line) is the weakest expansion since World War II. And keep in mind that this anemic recovery started in the summer of 2009, right about the same time as the stimulus was beginning. So if the President’s plan was effective, it should be apparent in the growth numbers.


Manufacturing Jobs Continue to Drop and Josh Earnest is a Tool



> Yeah, that promise to add a million manufacturing jobs within 4 years was thoroughly and tragically broken a couple of months ago, and we’ve lost another 9000 manufacturing jobs since then.


Job Recovery Has Stagnated in 2016



> Didn’t have time to post on yesterday’s humdrum Employment Situation Report, but I’m here for you today. Most articles written by Obama-fawners emphasized that nearly 180K jobs were created, while most articles written by his foes emphasized the large number of people leaving the workforce. Here’s my take


Exports Rise, But Doubling Remains Elusive 



> Back to my monthly harping on President Obama’s failure to double exports within 5 years – a failure that was official a year and a half ago. But I like to keep track of how exports are doing anyhow, just to see if he’ll get anywhere close to keeping his promise by the end of his term. And the answer appears to be not so much


Yep. Not so much...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Hopefully, they will disable the "red button" to release the clowns or the dogs rather than launch the missiles.

Luckily, Trump has not read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" --

"Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice 
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war "


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Snowflake alert!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Snowflake alert!


Winter is here ..............


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Hopefully, they will disable the "red button" to release the clowns or the dogs rather than launch the missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, Trump has not read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" --
> 
> 
> 
> "Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
> 
> Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war "



He may well be hoisted by his own petards as they say. I just hope he doesn't take the rest of us with him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I always take the size of these dopey memes down a peg before posting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> He may well be hoisted by his own petards as they say. I just hope he doesn't take the rest of us with him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

This is a rather cruel visual depiction of Obama's eight years in office. I would bring the nose of the dirigible up a degree or two.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I always take the size of these dopey memes down a peg before posting.



Who you calling a dopey meme? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

If you were a meme, you'd probably be an affable meme!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is a rather cruel visual depiction of Obama's eight years in office. I would bring the nose of the dirigible up a degree or two.


Yes, Pres. Obama's dirigible is still flying high and making us proud. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If you were a meme, you'd probably be an affable meme!


That is a nice thing to say, Macfury. Yes, Frank is likeable and friendly to one and all. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> That is a nice thing to say, Macfury. Yes, Frank is likeable and friendly to one and all. Paix, mon ami.



Well, one and almost all anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, one and almost all anyway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now, play nice, Frank.


----------



## Rps

Okay, I'm struggling with this and I'm wondering if it should be in the joke thread.......Trump, it is rumoured, is naming Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA. Isn't that like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Okay, I'm struggling with this and I'm wondering if it should be in the joke thread.......Trump, it is rumoured, is naming Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA. Isn't that like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route!


He will ensure that carbon dioxide is no longer considered a pollutant and allow the EPA to get on with the business of actually keeping the environment clean.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Okay, I'm struggling with this and I'm wondering if it should be in the joke thread.......Trump, it is rumoured, is naming Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA. Isn't that like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route!


I think it's fabulous.

Prog heads exploding everywhere.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Okay, I'm struggling with this and I'm wondering if it should be in the joke thread.......Trump, it is rumoured, is naming Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA. Isn't that like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route!


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/u...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Trump to tap fossil fuel advocate Scott Pruitt to lead EPA - The Globe and Mail

XX)


----------



## ehMax

Tweets from Donal Trump:

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
Chuck Jones, who is President of United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country!
7:41 PM - 7 Dec 2016

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues
8:56 PM - 7 Dec 2016

:lmao:

The guy either has zero clue on why jobs left, or he knows it and he's just carrying out a facade to the dumb electorate. 

He basicially wants the US's economy like China. Very few regulations and cheap labour. 

Make America Great Again indeed. 

Let's see how happy workers are to work a 10 hour a day jobs in factories making jack-****. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Lambasting companies leaving the US for Mexico for cheap labour, where they have no unions or representation (The reason why Toyota, Honda and others love Mexico), but then blaming unions as the reason why they are leaving. :lmao:

Meanwhile, jobs in the rust-belt are also gone, like many are leaving Cambridge, Ontario Toyota plant), due to more automation and cheap labour. 

Let's see how this strategy works out for him. Let's see how many manufacturing jobs he brings back and how the electorate likes those jobs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump is a one trick pony. With very little actual intelligence. Even those who supported him are going to feel the prick in their nether regions—which given his decorum in the change rooms of beauty pageants, is probably appropriate. 


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## Dr.G.

ehMax said:


> Tweets from Donal Trump:
> 
> Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
> Chuck Jones, who is President of United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country!
> 7:41 PM - 7 Dec 2016
> 
> Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
> If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues
> 8:56 PM - 7 Dec 2016
> 
> :lmao:
> 
> The guy either has zero clue on why jobs left, or he knows it and he's just carrying out a facade to the dumb electorate.
> 
> He basicially wants the US's economy like China. Very few regulations and cheap labour.
> 
> Make America Great Again indeed.
> 
> Let's see how happy workers are to work a 10 hour a day jobs in factories making jack-****. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Lambasting companies leaving the US for Mexico for cheap labour, where they have no unions or representation (The reason why Toyota, Honda and others love Mexico), but then blaming unions as the reason why they are leaving. :lmao:
> 
> Meanwhile, jobs in the rust-belt are also gone, like many are leaving Cambridge, Ontario Toyota plant), due to more automation and cheap labour.
> 
> Let's see how this strategy works out for him. Let's see how many manufacturing jobs he brings back and how the electorate likes those jobs.


All valid points, John. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

*Trump’s election stole my desire to look for a partner*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...or-a-partner/?utm_term=.e85c68421a3b#comments

This stuff is priceless!



> But two weeks later, the election happened. Once it was clear that Donald Trump would be president instead of Hillary Clinton, I felt sick to my stomach. I wanted to gather my children in bed with me and cling to them like we would if thunder and lightning were raging outside, with winds high enough that they power might go out. The world felt that precarious to me.


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## Macfury

Both are true. And your hyperbole is not. 

1. Trump wants an economy free of regulations that result in no net gain for the country. That does not mean he wants a regulatory framework "like China."
2.


> Let's see how happy workers are to work a 10 hour a day jobs in factories making jack-****. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Lambasting companies leaving the US for Mexico for cheap labour, where they have no unions or representation (The reason why Toyota, Honda and others love Mexico), but then blaming unions as the reason why they are leaving. :lmao:


I don't see what the problem is with your statement. Companies _are_ leaving the US for lower wage countries, such as Mexico. He is telling companies such as Carrier that they will like the business environment better in a few months, so wages are not going to have as big an impact. He is telling unions that if they scale back their demands somewhat, they will help stem the collapse of union-dominated industries. 

Jobs are leaving Ontario not only because of the high cost of labour, but because of the government's green energy policies, carbon taxes, and burdensome regulation. If the province became more serious about creating a better business environment, wages would not be such a concern.



> Let's see how this strategy works out for him. Let's see how many manufacturing jobs he brings back and how the electorate likes those jobs.


Absolutely.Let's see!




ehMax said:


> Tweets from Donal Trump:
> 
> Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
> Chuck Jones, who is President of United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country!
> 7:41 PM - 7 Dec 2016
> 
> Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
> If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues
> 8:56 PM - 7 Dec 2016
> 
> :lmao:
> 
> The guy either has zero clue on why jobs left, or he knows it and he's just carrying out a facade to the dumb electorate.
> 
> He basicially wants the US's economy like China. Very few regulations and cheap labour.
> 
> Make America Great Again indeed.
> 
> Let's see how happy workers are to work a 10 hour a day jobs in factories making jack-****. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Lambasting companies leaving the US for Mexico for cheap labour, where they have no unions or representation (The reason why Toyota, Honda and others love Mexico), but then blaming unions as the reason why they are leaving. :lmao:
> 
> Meanwhile, jobs in the rust-belt are also gone, like many are leaving Cambridge, Ontario Toyota plant), due to more automation and cheap labour.
> 
> Let's see how this strategy works out for him. Let's see how many manufacturing jobs he brings back and how the electorate likes those jobs.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2464431350246576/

Very bizarre.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2464431350246576/
> 
> Very bizarre.


The Donald Trump robot would never chase the expelled illegal immigrants after they've been catapulted over the wall! I will say that it's a beautiful wall!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Donald Trump robot would never chase the expelled illegal immigrants after they've been catapulted over the wall! I will say that it's a beautiful wall!


....... and all brought down by a chicken. Paz, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

That was no chicken... that was Quetzalcoatl!


----------



## FeXL

Before the door hits him on the ass on the way out, let's talk a bit more about Barry's Legacy. Specifically, _the_ Charlie Foxtrot. We'll also tie it in with some of that "Fake News" that the left is crowing about:

Did Obamacare Really Insure 20 Million?

The claim:



> The Department of Health and Human Services claims that 20 million people have gained health coverage since the enactment of Obamacare in 2010 through early 2016.


The fly in the ointment:



> However, it is important to note that the administration’s coverage estimates are based on survey data rather than calculating the actual change in coverage in different markets. Though surveys can provide useful information, they are not as precise as using enrollment data taken directly from insurance companies.


The facts:



> A recent analysis by The Heritage Foundation’s Edmund Haislmaier and Drew Gonshorowski uses the more accurate method, taking actual enrollment data from Medicaid and private insurance companies to assess the impact Obamacare has had on coverage.
> 
> *The researchers found that just over 14 million people gained coverage from the end of 2013 to the end of 2015.*


M'bold.

Leave it to the gov't to be off by a factor of nearly 50%. In _their_ favour...

Related:

Federal court halts Obamacare appeal, deals setback to president



> A federal appeals court put a key Obamacare case on hold Monday as judges begin to anticipate a President Trump, and move to give his administration the chance to change the Obama administration’s legal strategy on everything from immigration to health care.
> 
> The latest case is a landmark challenge brought by the U.S. House against the Health and Human Services, which was sending Obamacare money to insurance companies despite Congress specifically canceling the money in the annual appropriations process.


----------



## FeXL

Several more for Barry's Legacy.

US Life Expectancy Declines



> One of the fundamental ways scientists measure the well-being of a nation is tracking the rate at which its citizens die and how long they can be expected to live.
> 
> So the news out of the federal government Thursday is disturbing: The overall U.S. death rate has increased for the first time in a decade, according to an analysis of the latest data. And that led to a drop in overall life expectancy for the first time since 1993, particularly among people younger than 65.
> 
> *"This is a big deal," says Philip Morgan, a demographer at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill who was not involved in the new analysis.
> 
> "There's not a better indicator of well-being than life expectancy," he says. "The fact that it's leveling off in the U.S. is a striking finding."*


M'bold.

B..b..bu..but... Trump Said Mean Things!

And, now I guess we'll have to be registering all hypodermic needles:

Was There Nothing That Obama Couldn't Do?



> Heroin deaths surpass guns deaths in 2015.
> 
> Opioid deaths continued to surge in 2015, surpassing 30,000 for the first time in recent history, according to CDC data released Thursday.
> 
> That marks an increase of nearly 5,000 deaths from 2014. Deaths involving powerful synthetic opiates, like fentanyl, rose by nearly 75 percent from 2014 to 2015.
> 
> Heroin deaths spiked too, rising by more than 2,000 cases. For the first time since at least the late 1990s, there were more deaths due to heroin than to traditional opioid painkillers, like hydrocodone and oxycodone.


Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that there are 95 million unemployed in the US right now, would it? Little mental depression going on?

And, this little gem:

Former Nobel committee secretary regrets awarding the peace prize to Obama



> Awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to President Barack Obama in 2009 was an experiment to encourage the newly elected Democrat to follow through on his lofty promises, according to at least one former member of the Nobel committee. But apparently, that was a failed experiment.


Funny. Always thought that the Nobel awards were for actual accomplishments, not pipe dreams. 

Suddenly, his award makes far more sense: It's actually a Participation Trophy!!!


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me a case of good, old-fashioned, unintended consequences...

So, Jill Stein wanted a recount in Michigan. It was halted in mid-stream. However, inconsistencies were discovered and, in an effort to address potential voter fraud, the House has just passed legislation addressing that.

Thanks, Jill: Michigan House passes voter-ID bill after vote-fraud hyperbole



> Jill Stein didn’t get the recount she wanted in Michigan, but she did get the state to take vote-integrity issues seriously. Meeting in its lame-duck session, the state House of Representatives passed a tough voter-ID bill that includes $3 million for funding of free state identification and birth certificates after over 18,000 voters cast ballots without identification in the presidential election


18,000 voters with no ID. Curious, that...

Related:

House committee passes voter ID bills, moves to house floor

And the Progs are _Pissed_:

Stricter Voter ID Law Passes House



> Democrats are seething following passage by the state House of bills changing Michigan's voter ID law, saying the proposal might prevent people from bothering to vote. Under the proposal now headed to the Senate, anyone who does not have a picture ID when they vote would be required to show one at their local clerk's office within ten days of the election to have their vote count.


'Cause it's such a bitch to pack around a driver's license wherever you go...


----------



## Macfury

Why should you need a SNAP debit card to collect food stamps? Just go to the store and load up your bags...



FeXL said:


> I jes' luvs me a case of good, old-fashioned, unintended consequences...
> 
> So, Jill Stein wanted a recount in Michigan. It was halted in mid-stream. However, inconsistencies were discovered and, in an effort to address potential voter fraud, the House has just passed legislation addressing that.
> 
> Thanks, Jill: Michigan House passes voter-ID bill after vote-fraud hyperbole
> 
> 
> 
> 18,000 voters with no ID. Curious, that...
> 
> Related:
> 
> House committee passes voter ID bills, moves to house floor
> 
> And the Progs are _Pissed_:
> 
> Stricter Voter ID Law Passes House
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause it's such a bitch to pack around a driver's license wherever you go...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## Macfury

Watch out Freddie--you're starting to sound like Joseph McCarthy!

I think we need to add a sixth step to the stages of grief: denial, anger, _delusion_, bargaining, depression and acceptance.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Watch out Freddie--you're starting to sound like Joseph McCarthy!
> 
> 
> 
> I think we need to add a sixth step to the stages of grief: denial, anger, _delusion_, bargaining, depression and acceptance.



Au contraire. Delusion is when you honestly believe that Putin didn't have skin in the game of Making America Great Again. You just keep an eye on your news sources as the chips fall into place. Trump promised you that election fraud took place, and as we all know, he delivers on his promises. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Politics makes for strange bedfellows."


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Au contraire. Delusion is when you honestly believe that Putin didn't have skin in the game of Making America Great Again. You just keep an eye on your news sources as the chips fall into place. Trump promised you that election fraud took place, and as we all know, he delivers on his promises.


Yep. Jill Stein recount revealed that 18,000 people voted in Michigan who had no right to vote. Trump was right!

Eventually you will pass through the delusional phase into acceptance. Those news sources you refuse to refer to point out that the only thing missing from this conspiracy theory is... an actual connection to Russia! Hilarious to see progs becoming unhinged and unrepentant McCarthyites!


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep. Jill Stein recount revealed that 18,000 people voted in Michigan who had no right to vote. Trump was right!
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually you will pass through the delusional phase into acceptance. Those news sources you refuse to refer to point out that the only thing missing from this conspiracy theory is... an actual connection to Russia! Hilarious to see progs becoming unhinged and unrepentant McCarthyites!



Perhaps a good number of those 18,000 people voted for Trump. Pull your head out of the sand, Macfury. 


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## Freddie_Biff

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3890864?client=safari


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps a good number of those 18,000 people voted for Trump. Pull your head out of the sand, Macfury.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perhaps many of those were "the walking dead" who voted long after they "shuffled off this mortal coil"? In this case, the CIA would be of no help. Still, these days, who are you going to call to solve this mystery ??????????????? Or, as Charlie Brown would say .....................


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yep. Jill Stein recount revealed that 18,000 people voted in Michigan who had no right to vote. Trump was right!
> 
> Eventually you will pass through the delusional phase into acceptance. Those news sources you refuse to refer to point out that the only thing missing from this conspiracy theory is... an actual connection to Russia! Hilarious to see progs becoming unhinged and unrepentant McCarthyites!


Now these are REALLY strange bed partners!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps a good number of those 18,000 people voted for Trump. Pull your head out of the sand, Macfury.


Most of them were in Wayne County and Detroit--no chance!


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3890864?client=safari


Hawwwww! Hawwwwwww! Firing blanks again, Freddie!



> The official was not authorized to discuss the private intelligence assessment publicly and insisted on anonymity.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl....html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

Very interesting if true.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hawwwww! Hawwwwwww! Firing blanks again, Freddie!



Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Even when all the facts will have come in and the truth is incontrovertible you'll still find a way to deny it. Good ol' predictable Macfury.


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl....html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting if true.





> President-elect Donald Trump is expected to name as his secretary of state Rex Tillerson, the chief executive of Exxon Mobil who has worked extensively around the globe and built relationships with such leaders as Russian President Vladi*mir Putin, three people close to the transition team confirmed Saturday.
> 
> Tillerson’s nomination could face intense scrutiny in the Senate considering his years of work in Russia on behalf of the multinational petroleum company and his close ties to Putin. Already, two leading Republican hawks, Sens. John McCain (Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.), have voiced concerns about Tillerson serving as the nation’s top diplomat.


Noooooo! That can't be true! That could never be true! That's impossible! Macfury already said so. 


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## Macfury

I suspect strongly it's true.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Noooooo! That can't be true! That could never be true! That's impossible! Macfury already said so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

When all of the anonymous facts have come through from top secret sources that can neither be identified or discussed--I will deny it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Even when all the facts will have come in and the truth is incontrovertible you'll still find a way to deny it. Good ol' predictable Macfury.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I suspect strongly it's true.



You appear to be contradicting yourself. What you've just said is that you suspect it's true that the Russians likely interfered with the American election and that Trump is planning to maintain close ties with Putin with his choice of people in his cabinet. Is that what you meant? 


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## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You appear to be contradicting yourself. What you've just said is that you suspect it's true that the Russians likely interfered with the American election and that Trump is planning to maintain close ties with Putin with his choice of people in his cabinet. Is that what you meant?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Putin hit the nail square on the head when he pointed out that the US interferes in Russian politics. Witness the current sanctions. Putin also had very good reasons to turf US NGOs not that long ago. 

Beyond that in Syria you have the US overtly supporting Al-Queda terrorists (AKA moderate rebels) and covertly creating and supporting ISIS via Saudi and Turkish proxies.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Noooooo! That can't be true! That could never be true! That's impossible! Macfury already said so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, let him argue with Trump and his aides. Don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Putin hit the nail square on the head when he pointed out that the US interferes in Russian politics. Witness the current sanctions. Putin also had very good reasons to turf US NGOs not that long ago.
> 
> Beyond that in Syria you have the US overtly supporting Al-Queda terrorists (AKA moderate rebels) and covertly creating and supporting ISIS via Saudi and Turkish proxies.


Sounds like someone is "Putin on the Ritz". 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FLZPFI3jc[/ame]


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## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vCInVC89fU

Sadly, MM was correct. An interesting after-the-fact clip.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, let him argue with Trump and his aides. Don't shoot the messenger.



That was my Luke Skywalker impression. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That was my Luke Skywalker impression.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap: Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl5vi9ir49g[/ame]



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rJXqij6UMU[/ame]

I like this version better .................


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## Freddie_Biff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...k-1215p:homepage/story&utm_term=.b194dcb96343


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## Dr.G.

Dear Editor—

I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no President Donald Trump. Papa says, "If you see it in The Washington Post it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a President Donald Trump?

Virginia O'Hanlon


Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a President Donald Trump. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no President Donald Trump!


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## eMacMan

Duh, if it's a secret assessment, why is it in the Washington Post?

Of course it was the FBI whom revealed the Podesta/Wiener eMails, not the Russians, and not Wiki leaks.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Duh, if it's a secret assessment, why is it in the Washington Post?
> 
> Of course it was the FBI whom revealed the Podesta/Wiener eMails, not the Russians, and not Wiki leaks.



And your proof? 


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## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> And your proof?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How short are our memories.



> The FBI is probing new emails related to Hillary Clinton, FBI Director James Comey said in a Friday letter to lawmakers.
> 
> Those new emails were discovered during an FBI investigation in which the devices of former Congressman Anthony Weiner and Clinton aide Huma Abedin were seized, NBC News confirmed. _The New York Times_ first reported the news.
> 
> While examining Weiner's laptop, investigators discovered Abedin also used the laptop, which contained some emails between Abedin and Clinton, NBC News reported.


FBI probing new emails related to Clinton case


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## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Duh, if it's a secret assessment, why is it in the Washington Post?


Ha! Exactly!


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## Freddie_Biff

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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

More good news!

Republicans Sweep Louisiana Runoffs, Ending 2016 Elections | RealClearPolitics

This cements the Republicans at 52 seats in the Senate. Thanks to Harry Reid, Supreme Court nominations can now be confirmed by a simple majority. Goodbye Merrick Garland and hello to the new Scalia!


----------



## Macfury

Scott Adams nails it again:

The Time That Reality Forked Right in Front of You | Scott Adams' Blog



> The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency of the United States has effectively forked reality into two versions that are running in parallel. Clinton’s supporters believe they are living in a world that is a repeat of 1930s Germany, with Trump playing the part of Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Meanwhile, the other half of the country believes we elected a highly-capable populist who will “drain the swamp” and bring a business approach to government along with greater prosperity.
> 
> *Look for the Cognitive Dissonance trigger.*
> 
> In this case, Clinton supporters were persuaded to believe that Trump is OBVIOUSLY the next coming of Hitler. Or maybe worse because Trump is also rude and sexist. If that version of reality is true, Trump could not have been elected president. But he was. That’s the trigger for cognitive dissonance: two observations that don’t fit together.
> 
> How can it simultaneously be true that Trump is OBVIOUSLY the next Hitler while it is also true that half the country didn’t notice? There are at least three ways to explain-away this dissonance. Maybe…
> 
> Half the country are sexist, racist monsters too, so they like Trump.
> 
> or…
> 
> Half the country is stupid and can’t identify a Hitler that is right in front of them.
> 
> or…
> 
> Clinton supporters have been duped into believing something ridiculous about Trump.
> 
> Given this set-up, most normal human minds would assume the problem was with other people. That’s how cognitive dissonance works. We like to think we are rational while others are not. So you would expect in this situation that Clinton supporters would enter a type of dream state in which they interpret their reality as being surrounded by racist-sexist-stupid citizens who just elected a genocidal dictator. *They have to enter this dream because the only alternative involves believing that they themselves are gullible and deluded.*


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> More good news!


Beautimous...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> More good news!!


Well, Trump's change of mind from making Joaquin ‘El Chapo’ Guzmán head of the DEA to his new selection, Walter White, is a move in the "right" direction. We shall see about his other selections. Seems as if the swamp is going upscale.


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## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Trump's change of mind from making Joaquin ‘El Chapo’ Guzmán head of the DEA to his new selection, Walter White, is a move in the "right" direction. We shall see about his other selections. Seems as if the swamp is going upscale.



White knows the DEA inside and out. Who better? 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> White knows the DEA inside and out. Who better?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True ................... :lmao::lmao:


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## Macfury

Conservative voters are more savvy about current events than libs!

What the Public Knows — In Pictures, Words, Maps and Graphs | Pew Research Center


----------



## CubaMark

*This guy is going to be Commander-in-Chief.

Yup.*



> As recently as 2014, Donald Trump seemed deeply interested in President Obama and his daily intelligence briefing. In fact, the Republican, the year before launching his presidential campaign, seemed convinced that Obama wasn’t taking the national-security briefings as seriously as he should.
> 
> “Fact – Obama does not read his intelligence briefings nor does he get briefed in person by the CIA or DOD,” Trump complained, making up details that in no way reflected reality. Around the same time, Trump added, “Obama has missed 58% of his intelligence briefings” – which, again, was completely untrue.
> 
> With his whining in mind, there is some irony to the fact that Trump is now a president-elect who’s skipped nearly all of his intelligence briefings. In an interview that aired yesterday, Fox News’ Chris Wallace asked the Republican about his disinterest in receiving classified information from U.S. intelligence agencies. “Well, I get it when I need it,” the least experienced president-elect in the nation’s history explained.
> 
> It led to this extraordinary answer.
> _“I don’t have to be told – you know, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t have to be told the same thing and the same words every single day for the next eight years. It could be eight years – but eight years. I don’t need that.
> 
> “But I do say if something should change, let us know. Now, in the meantime, my generals are great, are being briefed. Mike Pence is being briefed, who is, by the way, one of my very good decisions. He’s terrific. And they’re being briefed. And I’m being briefed also.
> 
> “But if they’re going to come in and tell me the exact same thing that they told me, you know, that doesn’t change necessarily. There might be times where it might change. I mean, there will be some very fluid situations. I’ll be there not every day but more than that.
> 
> “But I don’t need to be told, Chris, the same thing every day, every morning, same words. ‘Sir, nothing has changed. Let’s go over it again.’ I don’t need that.”_​You’ve got to be be kidding me.


(MSNBC)​


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## FeXL

Yes. And Bill's Wife never will.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



CubaMark said:


> This guy is going to be Commander-in-Chief.


----------



## Macfury

Sounds good to me! I suspect Obama didn't get many briefings on his many golf excursions.



FeXL said:


> Yes. And Bill's Wife never will.
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/opinion/patriotic-opposition-to-donald-trump.html?smid=fb-share

I especially like his last sentence -- "America needs you … now. Speak up." Right on, brothers and sisters in solidarity. Keep the faith.


----------



## Macfury

The New York Times itself is on the wrong side of history--they just don't know it yet!



Dr.G. said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/opinion/patriotic-opposition-to-donald-trump.html?smid=fb-share
> 
> I especially like his last sentence -- "America needs you … now. Speak up." Right on, brothers and sisters in solidarity. Keep the faith.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The New York Times itself is on the wrong side of history--they just don't know it yet!


No way. Their motto is "all the news that's fit to print". It was true back when and true now. Remember, just because you say something is either true or false does not actually make it true or false. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No way. Their motto is "all the news that's fit to print". It was true back when and true now. Remember, just because you say something is either true or false does not actually make it true or false. Paix, mon ami.



I'm afraid you're mistaken there, Dr. G. If Macfury says a thing is so, how could it be otherwise? It's one of the burdens of being the boss of the universe, being right all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm afraid you're mistaken there, Dr. G. If Macfury says a thing is so, how could it be otherwise? It's one of the burdens of being the boss of the universe, being right all the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, Macfury has his point of view and beliefs and I have mine. How we present them might be in a different manner, but I am willing to listen to him, agree with him or disagree with him. In the end, he and I can still say we are friends, albeit on different sides of many issues. Such is Life.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm afraid you're mistaken there, Dr. G. If Macfury says a thing is so, how could it be otherwise? It's one of the burdens of being the boss of the universe, being right all the time.





Dr.G. said:


> No, Macfury has his point of view and beliefs and I have mine. How we present them might be in a different manner, but I am willing to listen to him, agree with him or disagree with him. In the end, he and I can still say we are friends, albeit on different sides of many issues. Such is Life.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Right Dr. G. 

It is without any doubt that Frank, who seems to have no idea that what he posts is simply what he believes (and indeed often insists) is undisputed. Such things exist only in his mind.

From that perspective, Macfury makes more sense and posts much more plausible and believable comments.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Right Dr. G.
> 
> 
> 
> It is without any doubt that Frank, who seems to have no idea that what he posts is simply what he believes (and indeed often insists) is undisputed. Such things exist only in his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> From that perspective, Macfury makes more sense and posts much more plausible and believable comments.



Again reaffirming your own confirmation bias, Don. Macfury's posts are much more plausible and believable to you because he says what you want to hear. As boss of the universe, that's a heavy crown to bear. But believe it or not, the truths of other people are every bit as legitimate as yours is, whether you like it or kit. It's always the OTHER guy whose views seem unreasonable, n'est-ce pas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Right Dr. G.
> 
> It is without any doubt that Frank, who seems to have no idea that what he posts is simply what he believes (and indeed often insists) is undisputed. Such things exist only in his mind.
> 
> From that perspective, Macfury makes more sense and posts much more plausible and believable comments.


No, Frank and I agree on many things, disagree on some things, so I don't play one person's views against another. You and I are friends over our many years of discussions in The Shang, and I would call Macfury and Frank a friend as well. There are not too many people I feel are my enemies. I tire, at times, at the back and forth and back and forth, on and on and on in some of the threads. So, I just tend to ignore the thread rather than to ignore the person. This way, while I have not made a friend, at least I have not made an enemy. The only enemy I ever had was someone called "Automatic Dr. G." who tried to get people to believe that he/she was me. That was about 12+ years ago, so it is water under the bridge now. 

Thus, I am able to write "paix mes amis" in a group posting, or "pain mon ami/amie" if the post is personal.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> No, Frank and I agree on many things, disagree on some things, so I don't play one person's views against another. You and I are friends over our many years of discussions in The Shang, and I would call Macfury and Frank a friend as well. There are not too many people I feel are my enemies. I tire, at times, at the back and forth and back and forth, on and on and on in some of the threads. So, I just tend to ignore the thread rather than to ignore the person. This way, while I have not made a friend, at least I have not made an enemy. The only enemy I ever had was someone called "Automatic Dr. G." who tried to get people to believe that he/she was me. That was about 12+ years ago, so it is water under the bridge now.
> 
> Thus, I am able to write "paix mes amis" in a group posting, or "pain mon ami/amie" if the post is personal.


No doubt about you and I being able to disagree and remain friends, that is a given.

I respect your viewpoints and the way you present them.

Frank is another story. The first to call someone an asshole whenever it pleases him.

Lately he chose to challenge me on today's journalism until I proved to him that he had no idea what he was offering as an opinion between Edmonton's two major newspapers. Once he realized he knew nothing about he was posting about, all he could respond with was as follows.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No disagreement about the "far removed" part, but I believe that journalism today is not confined to print media. The part I refer to is the part about appearing to be relatively unbiased (which the EJ does, compare to the Sun). You may think of the EJ as a liberal rag, but remember they did endorse Prentice and the PC's for the last provincial election. To be a respectable media outlet, one must present both sides of the story and not create any fictitious stories. The Rebel Media fails both of these things, whether it is online only or print. Credibility is everything, or at least it used to be. Not so much anymore in this Trumped-up post-modern post-factual world we live in.
> 
> I don't doubt that voter revenge exists, but to replace the current government with what exactly? There's so much infighting on the right they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot again. Kenney is no leader. I like to joke that we need more parties on the right, not fewer. Albertans want choice!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





SINC said:


> So then, you DO realize that the Edmonton Journal and the Edmonton Sun have identical editors, don't you? Or did that fact escape your knowledge of today's journalism? Don't believe me? Take a look at the two contact screen shots below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the way of the print media these days Frank. Those same editors then put a particular bias for similar stories in each publication at their whim. Funny that, eh? Ditto for every two-paper Post Media city in the country. The EJ used to have 80 on staff in the editorial department alone and ditto for the Calgary Herald. They now operate BOTH the Sun and EJ, as well as the Herald and the Calgary Sun with a total editorial staff of 15 in each city.
> 
> I had 15 editorial staff in Fort McMurray on the daily in the late 80's and 22 at the Daily Herald-Tribune in Grande Prairie in the early 80s by way of comparison when each city was about 35,00 and 40,000 population at that time.
> 
> The things one doesn't learn from a former newspaper type who has been there, done that.





Freddie_Biff said:


> That is indeed an eye opener, Don. The mind boggles.


I too tire, at times, at the back and forth and back and forth, on and on and on in some of the threads, but I tire most at posts that contain pure bull and often from the same source. I will leave you to determine for yourself which posts I refer to.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> No doubt about you and I being able to disagree and remain friends, that is a given.
> 
> 
> 
> I respect your viewpoints and the way you present them.
> 
> 
> 
> Frank is another story. The first to call someone an asshole whenever it pleases him.
> 
> 
> 
> Lately he chose to challenge me on today's journalism until I proved to him that he had no idea what he was offering as an opinion between Edmonton's two major newspapers. Once he realized he knew nothing about he was posting about, all he could respond with was as follows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I too tire, at times, at the back and forth and back and forth, on and on and on in some of the threads, but I tire most at posts that contain pure bull and often from the same source. I will leave you to determine for yourself which posts I refer to.



I tire of the references to someone in the third person when you know perfectly well that person can read what you write here. I talk to you, not about you, Don. It is one of your habits that I find, unfortunately, is not a sign of either maturity nor open-mindedness. I feel hurt when I try to explain my understanding as clearly as possible and you respond with a simplistic dismissal of my view as "bull." I'm not sure where you get the authority to treat another forum member with such disdain, but it is not one of your better qualities. I had higher regard for you years ago before you started with this current automatic cynicism with respect to pretty much anything I post. It's too bad because you used to seem like a nice guy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No, Frank and I agree on many things, disagree on some things, so I don't play one person's views against another. You and I are friends over our many years of discussions in The Shang, and I would call Macfury and Frank a friend as well. There are not too many people I feel are my enemies. I tire, at times, at the back and forth and back and forth, on and on and on in some of the threads. So, I just tend to ignore the thread rather than to ignore the person. This way, while I have not made a friend, at least I have not made an enemy. The only enemy I ever had was someone called "Automatic Dr. G." who tried to get people to believe that he/she was me. That was about 12+ years ago, so it is water under the bridge now.
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, I am able to write "paix mes amis" in a group posting, or "pain mon ami/amie" if the post is personal.



I respect your ability to remain non-partisan as much as possible, Marc. I sense that at times that friendship (as much as one can call an online only relationship on a forum a "friendship") does get put to the test, and I sincerely hope a return to the kind of peace and decorum I enjoy on many other online fora can return here. That at of course depends on an atmosphere of mutual respect, something I'm proud to say you and I have managed to maintain from day one. I thank for that. I am not going to refer to anyone else on this forum as "another story," because I believe in talking to someone rather than about someone. Paix et salutations, mon ami. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I respect your ability to remain non-partisan as much as possible, Marc. I sense that at times that friendship (as much as one can call an online only relationship on a forum a "friendship") does get put to the test, and I sincerely hope a return to the kind of peace and decorum I enjoy on many other online fora can return here. That at of course depends on an atmosphere of mutual respect, something I'm proud to say you and I have managed to maintain from day one. I thank for that. I am not going to refer to anyone else on this forum as "another story," because I believe in talking to someone rather than about someone. Paix et salutations, mon ami.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good points, Frank. I especially like your comment about "mutual respect". While we all may never reach a level of "peace and decorum", certainly not in this thread, I do feel that there can be some sort of respect that is mutual in various threads. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Big Sect. of State news seems to be forthcoming today. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ce9c80-c0e3-11e6-897f-918837dae0ae_story.html


Of course, confirmation might prove difficult. Trump should have chosen Mitt Romney.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...7dae0ae_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

Well, it's official now.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/m...t_tnt_20161213&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Always liked Al Franken ............... still do.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump selects as energy secretary Rick Perry, the former Texas governor who once vowed to abolish the agency. Bad choice. Rather than someone who wants to abolish the agency, pick someone like Sarah "drill baby drill" Palin who will drill for oil and natural gas anywhere and everywhere.


----------



## HenriHelvetica

1st time posting in here. Would love to see what an infographic of posting activity since the 1st post in 2012. #curious


----------



## CubaMark

*A Student Has Created A Gripping And NSFW Photo Series With Trump’s Quotes About Women*










(BuzzFeed)


----------



## Macfury

We never got those Bill Clinton quotes!


----------



## Macfury

HenriHelvetica said:


> 1st time posting in here. Would love to see what an infographic of posting activity since the 1st post in 2012. #curious


What would you like to see covered on that infographic?


----------



## FeXL

Further on recounts.

Well, whaddya know, Wisconsin's recount broadens the gap for Trump even more. Those sneaky Russkies. Not only can they manipulate a vote, they can manipulate a recount. Amazing...

Completed Wisconsin recount widens Donald Trump's lead by 131 votes



> Wisconsin’s historic presidential recount ended Monday resulting in a net gain of 131 votes for President-elect Donald Trump over Democrat Hillary Clinton, the Wisconsin Elections Commission said.
> 
> Trump added 844 votes to his total for the Nov. 8 election, while Clinton added 713.
> 
> Overall, the commission said, voters cast 2.976 million ballots. The recount resulted in a net increase of 837 ballots.


However, things slightly different in that Prog bastion, The Motor City.

Detroit’s voting irregularities spur state audit



> State officials are planning to examine about 20 Detroit precincts where ballot boxes opened during the recount had fewer ballots than poll workers had recorded on Election Day.
> 
> *“We’re assuming there were (human) errors*, and we will have discussions with Detroit election officials and staff in addition to reviewing the ballots,” Thomas said.


M'bold.

Those damn Russkies...

Further:



> The recount problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 of the city’s 662 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. State law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals.


Convenient, no?

More:



> Republican state senators last week called for an investigation in Wayne County, including one precinct where *a Detroit ballot box contained only 50 of the 306 ballots listed in a poll book*, according to an observer for Trump.


M'bold.

Curious, no?


----------



## FeXL

Further on the left's "Fake News".

Hillary loved fake news — until she lost



> Hillary Clinton believed (and bathed in) all the fake news that CNN and other liberal news outlets churned out 24/7, in anticipation of her inevitable victory.
> 
> ...
> 
> So, it would seem rather odd that Hillary’s now whining about fake news, and blaming it for her colossal humiliation.
> 
> “The epidemic of malicious fake news and false propaganda that flooded social media over the past year — it’s now clear the so-called fake news can have real-world consequences,” Hillary insisted in a speech at a ceremony for retiring Sen. Harry Reid.
> 
> Why yes, the spread of fake news does have consequences as do the perpetrators and propagandanistas of said fake news — like CNN, The Washington Post, and the New York Times. Hillary ate up this fake news back when they all predicted she’d clean Donald Trump’s electoral clock! She smiled like a Cheshire Cat that got the canary (kindly forgive the mixed metaphor), devouring the avalanche of biased headlines. “The more fake news the better,” she purred, as she ready herself for the Oval Office!


8 Times Hillary Clinton Pushed Fake News



> Former Secretary of State and two-time presidential campaign loser Hillary Clinton wants Congress to stop people from reading “fake news” — after spending her political career promoting and defending herself with the exact same thing.


A nice little list.

The Left Wants A Fight Over ‘Fake News’, I Say, Challenge Accepted



> Indeed let’s summarize the barrage of “fake news” we endured from the Leftist mainstream media these last eight years and even before that (in no particular order):


A nice longer list.

And, finally, those Russkies. Again. No, really... 

Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say



> The flood of “fake news” this election season got support from a sophisticated Russian propaganda campaign that created and spread misleading articles online with the goal of punishing Democrat Hillary Clinton, helping Republican Donald Trump and undermining faith in American democracy, say independent researchers who tracked the operation.


Curiously, the article is now prefaced with a little disclaimer that reads, Maybe not...

Very Closely Related:

New York Times reports 95.7 percent fall in quarterly profit



> Net profit attributable to the newspaper publisher fell to $406,000, or break-even per share, in the third quarter, from $9.4 million, or 6 cents per share, a year earlier.
> 
> Revenue fell to $363.6 million from $367.4 million.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs it when they start devouring their own...

Black employees file class-action lawsuit against CNN



> “As a result of the current discrimination lawsuit filed on behalf of DeWayne Walker vs. CNN, Time Warner & Turner, we have uncovered stories involving abuse of power, nepotism, revenge, retaliation and discrimination,” said Daniel Meachum said in a press release.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

The neo-McCarthyites are cracking me up. The losing progs in Great Britain are now blaming their humiliating Brexit loss on--Putin. Angela Merkel is already blaming Putin for what looks like a stunning prog defeat upcoming next fall. Check under your beds and in your closets, progs: BOO!!!!--it's Vladimir Putin!


----------



## Macfury

I still love the fact that they call copying John Podesta's e-mails "hacking." The big dope gave away his Google password by mistake. That's some hack!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I still love the fact that they call copying John Podesta's e-mails "hacking." The big dope gave away his Google password by mistake. That's some hack!


You don't seriously contend that the Progs can take an honest look in the mirror and say, "It's our fault," do you?


----------



## FeXL

Further on voter ID's.

U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals: Voter ID Law Is NOT Discriminatory



> In a 37-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson found that the evidence was “insufficient to support Plaintiffs’ claim that SB 1256 ha[d] denied African Americans, Latino, and young voters an equal opportunity to participate in the political process and to elect representatives of their choice.”
> 
> The Virginia Democrat Party, along with two minority voters, Barbara H. Lee, an African American Democrat who resides in Staunton, Virginia; and Gonzalo J. Aida Brescia, a Latino Democrat who resides in Richmond, Virginia; brought the action against Virginia election officials to challenge the voter ID law. They alleged that the law violated the Voting Rights Act; that it imposed undue burdens on the right to vote and disparate treatment of individuals without a rational basis, in violation of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment; that it amounted to “partisan fencing” (a law that fences out from the voting franchise a sector of the population), in violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments; that it discriminated on the basis of race in violation of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments; and that it violated the Twenty-Sixth Amendment by failing “to take action to reduce wait times to vote,” thus suppressing the number of votes cast by young voters.


Stymied, again...


----------



## Macfury

This stuff kills m, promoting an insulting notion that the "aggrieved" groups are incapable of using a free ID card to vote.



FeXL said:


> Further on voter ID's.
> 
> U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals: Voter ID Law Is NOT Discriminatory
> 
> 
> 
> Stymied, again...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This stuff kills m, promoting an insulting notion that the "aggrieved" groups are incapable of using a free ID card to vote.


Scary thing is, many millennials probably aren't...


----------



## FeXL

So, ya wanna talk Russkies & American politics? Fine...

Ted Kennedy Secretly Asked The Soviets To Intervene In The 1984 Elections



> According to Soviet documents unearthed in the early 1990’s, Kennedy literally asked the Soviets, avowed enemies of the U.S., to intervene on behalf of the Democratic party in the 1984 elections. Kennedy’s communist communique was so secret that it was not discovered until 1991, eight years after Kennedy had initiated his Soviet gambit:


The Progs? Say it ain't so, Joe...


----------



## CubaMark

*Michael Moore on Trump: Don't Forget 8/6/01 Intel Briefing*

As of Tuesday, Donald Trump has had the chance to attend *36 daily presidential national security briefings*, per Michael Moore's tally. As of a week ago, the president-elect said *he had attended, at most, three*. 

Moore joins the chorus of those who see this as a deal-breaker, and he explains why in a Facebook post titled, "Donald Trump Is Gonna Get Us Killed." 

Moore provides a history lesson: While vacationing in Texas, George W. Bush was handed the daily briefing on August 6, 2001. Writes Moore: "He glanced at it, set it aside and then went fishing for the rest of the day."

The briefing's headline: "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE INSIDE US." Inside it referenced the use of planes. Bush ended his vacation four weeks later, writes Moore. 

"In the fifth week, bin Laden attacked the US with planes."​
(Newser)

And a useful comment under that story, mixed in with the idiot Trumpites calling Moore "fat" and telling him to "lose weight" (wow, what a zinger! great comeback! Genius criticism of Moore's position! Gosh!):



> *jwwinner *
> 30 minutes ago
> 
> What is most troubling about Trump's refusal to attend to the briefings, is his rationale.........." I'm a smart guy, I don't need.......". In fact, Trump's history and shady business dealings reveal is not... not.... N O T smart but relies on his own faulty reasoning instead. He has NO experience in elected office whatsoever. He has NO experience with the military. Yet, he knows more than all those people.
> 
> So what happens in those 7:00 AM Presidential meetings? According to the White House , they may last 15 minutes or over an hour. Often heads of state, DOD officials, and especially Intel are present and there is a back-n-forth discussion of ' hot topics" or national concerns.
> 
> We all know the Bush White House received multiple warnings as far back as the previous spring about a possible attack on American soil. That White House believed that attack would be on our ports. Those Intel reports came from our agencies and the EU Intel.
> 
> We all know what happened that early Fall and why. Because we do, it would seem that any President-Elect would be especially wary. But *Trump has time for Kanye West but not our national security briefs. *No cameras present for boring DBs. He should never take the oath of office.


----------



## FeXL

Thought that was Climate Change... 



CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump Is Gonna Get Us Killed


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Dems & the Russkies...

The Democrats' Nauseating Putin Hypocrisy



> The degree to which the Democrats have changed their tune on Vladimir Putin almost on a proverbial dime is either black comic or nauseating or both, depending on how you want to look at it. Whatever it is, it is a extremely obvious example of how party politics is conducted in our era (possibly always).
> 
> If your side does it, it's diplomatic genius bound to yield peace in our time. If the other side does the exact same thing, it's a horrendous mistake bordering on treason likely to cause a national calamity, if not global Armageddon.
> 
> If there were any decent, even semi-even-handed political science departments left in our country (okay, maybe there are one or two), what we might call the Democrats' "Great Putin Flip Flop" would be a textbook case for classroom discussion.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Moore provides a history lesson: While vacationing in Texas, George W. Bush was handed the daily briefing on August 6, 2001. Writes Moore: "He glanced at it, set it aside and then went fishing for the rest of the day."


So just reading it wasn't enough? He could have used that briefing to stop 9/11? Righhhhhht....



CubaMark said:


> And a useful comment under that story, mixed in with the idiot Trumpites calling Moore "fat" and telling him to "lose weight" (wow, what a zinger! great comeback! Genius criticism of Moore's position! Gosh!):


His position? Isn't that lying on his side in front of the telly while pouring a sack of potato chips into his maw?


----------



## FeXL

Not the Russkies? 

WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Assange ally says Clinton election hack was 'inside job' NOT Russia



> Former British ambassador Craig Murray said he has met the person who handed over the e-mails and they WERE from the Democratic National Committee (DNC).
> 
> The e-mails were released by Mr Assange's site and caused damage to Hillary Clinton's reputation with a number of shock revelations among tens of thousands of e-mails.
> 
> Speaking to The Guardian, Mr Murray said: “I know who leaked them.
> 
> “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.


But...the NARRATIVE!!!


----------



## Macfury

The narrative extends to the lie that the Republicans were also hacked, but that their e-mails were not disseminated. It's not so much that those dirty Russkies leaked Hillary's dirt but that they did not even-handedly spread Republican dirt as well. The Republicans say that they worked with the FBI early on to ensure no such hacks could take place and nothing has been leaked. Trump does not use e-mail.



FeXL said:


> Not the Russkies?
> 
> WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Assange ally says Clinton election hack was 'inside job' NOT Russia
> 
> 
> 
> But...the NARRATIVE!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Michael Moore on Trump: Don't Forget 8/6/01 Intel Briefing*
> 
> 
> 
> As of Tuesday, Donald Trump has had the chance to attend *36 daily presidential national security briefings*, per Michael Moore's tally. As of a week ago, the president-elect said *he had attended, at most, three*.
> 
> 
> 
> Moore joins the chorus of those who see this as a deal-breaker, and he explains why in a Facebook post titled, "Donald Trump Is Gonna Get Us Killed."
> 
> 
> 
> Moore provides a history lesson: While vacationing in Texas, George W. Bush was handed the daily briefing on August 6, 2001. Writes Moore: "He glanced at it, set it aside and then went fishing for the rest of the day."
> 
> 
> 
> The briefing's headline: "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE INSIDE US." Inside it referenced the use of planes. Bush ended his vacation four weeks later, writes Moore.
> 
> 
> 
> "In the fifth week, bin Laden attacked the US with planes."​
> 
> 
> (Newser)
> 
> 
> 
> And a useful comment under that story, mixed in with the idiot Trumpites calling Moore "fat" and telling him to "lose weight" (wow, what a zinger! great comeback! Genius criticism of Moore's position! Gosh!):



Scary implications. But good luck getting the Cons on this board to actually consider the dangers of a Con President ignoring intelligence briefings. Perhaps the barrier is that the commander in chief would require a modicum of intelligence himself to understand them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Har! Don't recall you being worried about this:



> President Obama was inaugurated for his second term on January 20, 2013. Between January 20, 2013 and September 29, 2014, President Obama attended 255 PDBs over a possible 618 days for a 41.26% attendance rate.


http://www.g-a-i.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GAI-Report-PDB-Update-9.29.2014.pdf




Freddie_Biff said:


> Scary implications. But good luck getting the Cons on this board to actually consider the dangers of a Con President ignoring intelligence briefings. Perhaps the barrier is that the commander in chief would require a modicum of intelligence himself to understand them.


----------



## FeXL

Why do you care? He's not your president. 

'Sides, can you imagine The Hairdo sitting down every morning & listening to intelligence briefings? <snort>



Freddie_Biff said:


> But good luck getting the Cons on this board to actually consider the dangers of a Con President ignoring intelligence briefings.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Why do you care? He's not your president.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sides, can you imagine The Hairdo sitting down every morning & listening to intelligence briefings? <snort>



Well, given that the US has more nukes than the rest of the word combined, yeah I care. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

This guy's got nothing on George Orwell. 











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## Macfury

There is no federal appointment for the human society.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Did Trump commit treason? Must have missed it in the mainstream news.


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure the explanation is going to be convoluted but, here goes...

Explain to me the connection between not reading as many intel briefs as you'd like Trump to and US nukes. Compare & contrast the same argument re: Barry's outstanding record of not attending intel briefs.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, given that the US has more nukes than the rest of the word combined, yeah I care.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Did Trump commit treason? Must have missed it in the mainstream news.



Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the political cartoon format. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I'm very familiar with it. To work, these cartoons need to actually have some basis in truth to exaggerate. You can't simply make all of it up.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the political cartoon format.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm very familiar with it. To work, these cartoons need to actually have some basis in truth to exaggerate. You can't simply make all of it up.



I didn't; the cartoonist did. I believe it's the Putin/Trump connection that is being satirized here. Do you require further explanation? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

They don't have a connection in real life. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> I didn't; the cartoonist did. I believe it's the Putin/Trump connection that is being satirized here. Do you require further explanation?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They don't have a connection in real life.



Well now that would be the question wouldn't it. You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.newsw...ited-states-europe-516895?amp=1?client=safari


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

So the connection between Trump and Putin is... a nutty speculative article in Newsweek! That takes the cake! No connection made and written more than a month ago I see... aged like a fine wine!





Freddie_Biff said:


> Well now that would be the question wouldn't it. You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/www.newsw...ited-states-europe-516895?amp=1?client=safari
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So the connection between Trump and Putin is... a nutty speculative article in Newsweek! That takes the cake! No connection made and written more than a month ago I see... aged like a fine wine!



Pay attention, Macfury. It's not just Newsweek. It's all over the mainstream news, which I understand that you do not follow. If you would like help distinguishing between the more balanced sources versus the left and right wing nut sources, perhaps this chart will help. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Isn't that odd? Newsweek is not even included in that illustration of reliable or unreliable news. Looks like Macfury is right when he writes, "a nutty speculative article in Newsweek".


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Isn't that odd? Newsweek is not even included in that illustration of reliable or unreliable news. Looks like Macfury is right when he writes, "a nutty speculative article in Newsweek".


Even funnier--believing that scrambling these news source logos across a chart creates something informative!

Trump and Putin have never met! The progs have entered "red scare" territory with a vengeance. Remember how they used to have "Gorbasms" when Gorbachev visited the States?


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Pay attention, Macfury. It's not just Newsweek. It's all over the mainstream news, which I understand that you do not follow. If you would like help distinguishing between the more balanced sources versus the left and right wing nut sources, perhaps this chart will help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right in the centre of that "great news sources" circle is the New York Times. Did they not apologize for their election coverage stating
"we aim to rededicate ourselves to the fundamental mission of Times journalism. That is to report America and the world honestly, without fear or favor, striving always to understand and reflect all political perspectives and life experiences in the stories that we bring to you. "

Not sure they would come out and say how they need to rededicate themselves to honest journalism if they were doing it already.


----------



## FeXL

Guess you didn't read this post from yesterday.

Is that the same MSM that published, without question, the following? And, much, much, more? 



> Every hysterical, unsubstantiated claim about Global Warming™
> 
> Every contradictory “study” about health and diet.
> 
> Obama’s first scandal: ‘Fast & Furious’ gunrunning.
> 
> Obama’s strong economy and contrived unemployment numbers.
> 
> Benghazi and the video excuse.
> 
> The rise of ISIS, the “JV team.”
> 
> The multitude of ‘Green Energy’ scams.
> 
> The evolving lies of Hillary’s email scandal.
> 
> Dan Rather’s forged National Guard documents.
> 
> Brian William’s florid imagination regarding events he supposedly covered.
> 
> Violence at Trump rallies.
> 
> BLM and “hands up, don’t shoot.”
> 
> The Trayvon Martin shooting which tried to paint Zimmerman as a racist.
> 
> The supposedly ‘grass roots’ Occupy Movement.
> 
> The rationale behind Jill Stein’s vote recount effort.
> 
> WikiLeaks and the Russian connection.
> 
> Hillary’s “stumble” on the 9/11 anniversary.
> 
> Deceptive editing of the turnout at Trump vs Hillary rallies.
> 
> Poll numbers showing Hillary way ahead of Trump.
> 
> The Religion of Peace™ and coverup of domestic Islamic terrorism.
> 
> “White Privilege” and systemic racism.
> 
> The coverup of crimes committed by illegal aliens.
> 
> The coverup of crimes committed by blacks against whites, Jews and Asians.
> 
> Racial and rape hoaxes intended to promote a false narrative.
> 
> Social media and search engine shenanigans intended to favor the Democrats.
> 
> The cash for hostages Iran deal.


You'll pardon me if I take anything the MSM has to say with something more than merely a modicum of salt...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's all over the mainstream news...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Isn't that odd? Newsweek is not even included in that illustration of reliable or unreliable news. Looks like Macfury is right when he writes, "a nutty speculative article in Newsweek".



No, Macfury is not right, he is highly opinionated, as are you. You would both likely prefer sources to the bottom right of this chart, which is exactly where the Rebel Media. I'm surprised you don't know how to detect bias in a news source, Don, with all your years in the business. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Right in the centre of that "great news sources" circle is the New York Times. Did they not apologize for their election coverage stating
> 
> "we aim to rededicate ourselves to the fundamental mission of Times journalism. That is to report America and the world honestly, without fear or favor, striving always to understand and reflect all political perspectives and life experiences in the stories that we bring to you. "
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure they would come out and say how they need to rededicate themselves to honest journalism if they were doing it already.



I imagine all news organizations can slip from their stated intentions if they are not careful. The better news sources at least acknowledge this. I doubt you'd ever see an apology or retraction in, say, the Rebel Media. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, Macfury is not right, he is highly opinionated, as are you. You would both likely prefer sources to the bottom right of this chart, which is exactly where the Rebel Media. I'm surprised you don't know how to detect bias in a news source, Don, with all your years in the business.


As I demonstrated to you recently, you have no clue as to what you write about when it comes to media. I do and it is you who has much to learn.


----------



## FeXL

And backs his opinions up with facts. Unlike the Progs on these boards...



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, Macfury is not right, he is highly opinionated...


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> I imagine all news organizations can slip from their stated intentions if they are not careful. The better news sources at least acknowledge this. I doubt you'd ever see an apology or retraction in, say, the Rebel Media.



Only when the Courts mandate it, of course.


:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

*Today's Trump Developments:*

Judge orders Trump to sit for seven-hour deposition despite lawyers claiming he was 'too important' | The Independent

Hillary Clinton's lead over Donald Trump in the popular vote rises to 2.8 million | The Independent


----------



## Macfury

I guess hell will freeze over by the time the losing campaign stops touting its losing strategy of pursuing the popular vote



CubaMark said:


> *Today's Trump Developments:*
> 
> Judge orders Trump to sit for seven-hour deposition despite lawyers claiming he was 'too important' | The Independent
> 
> Hillary Clinton's lead over Donald Trump in the popular vote rises to 2.8 million | The Independent


----------



## Macfury

The only Rebel Media material I see is the stuff people post here, But calling those sources in the centre of that loony chart credible mainstream news outlets is laughable! Mainstream, perhaps--credible, no.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, Macfury is not right, he is highly opinionated, as are you. You would both likely prefer sources to the bottom right of this chart, which is exactly where the Rebel Media. I'm surprised you don't know how to detect bias in a news source, Don, with all your years in the business.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

It doesn't matter how many more passing yards the loser of the Super Bowl has.

The Left just needs to deal with the fact that _Bill's Wife is Never Going to be President_. Gawd I love saying that... 

And, the loss is attributable to one person & one person only. The one in her mirror. Not every crank excuse of a denial story the MSM is perpetuating this week.



CubaMark said:


> Hillary Clinton's lead over Donald Trump in the popular vote rises to 2.8 million


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of the Lying Left, let's bring this to light:

Hate Hoax: NYC Muslim Arrested After Claiming Attack by Trump Fans



> A Muslim woman who drummed up mainstream media hysteria claiming she was attacked on a New York City subway by President-Elect Donald Trump supporters is now under arrest for fabricating the hate crime and filing a false police report.


What Yasmin Seweid’s Pretty Little Lies Reveal About ‘Fake News’ Media Hypocrisy



> But since Donald Trump’s election, social media users have been bombarded by a finger wagging media about a flood of fake news and misinformation spreading online which, the media claims. But the media isn’t taking a long hard look at themselves and asking how and why “fake news” has gained the audience it has. With little to no discretion and all too eager to push anti-Trump narratives, these news organizations hit the publish button on Seweid’s story with little to no hedging that, at that point, all they had was her account. And its faith in the story dies hard. When Buzzfeed published the story of Seweid’s arrest on Wednesday, the headline read “Woman Arrested For Allegedly Making Up Story of NY Subway Attack by Trump Supporters”, carrying more skepticism in the fact that she was arrested for fabricating the story, than Buzzfeed gave to its original report.
> 
> These editors, apparently not convinced that Donald Trump provides enough real life clickbait content, rushed off to prove their desired narrative of rampant Islamophobia and hate crimes. If newsroom editors want to lament the spread of fake news, perhaps they can start with how they and their journalists handled the Yasmin Seweid case. Likewise with rape victims in the viral media cases of Emma Sulkowicz, the University of Virginia Greek system or Duke Lacrosse, all this does is undermine their own narratives and most importantly real victims.


Fake News: Media Screamed From the Rooftops Story of Muslim Girl Who Claimed To Have Been Assaulted by Trump Voters; _Curiously Subdued Now That She's Admitted She Made It All Up_



> The Daily Signal lists many of the media outlets that reported this #FakeNews; I don't wonder at all if they're giving news that she fabricated the incident the same prominent coverage, if any.


----------



## FeXL

And here we have the compassionate, intellectual left.

Julia Ioffe, Formerly at New Republic and Politico, Soon at the Atlantic, Accuses Trump of "F***ing" His Daughter Ivanka



> Ioffe's contract with Politico was almost up; in response to this tweet by Ioffe, they chose to terminate her contract early.
> 
> The Atlantic, where she's headed now, chose to defend her. They did promise she'd behave more professionally in the future.
> 
> Good luck on that!


More:



> So people are naturally a bit curious as to why liberals are in outrage mode against the outrage against Ioffe, when they've not only been in favor of scalp-hunting before, but in fact have been the ringleaders.
> 
> ...
> 
> There is no possible justification for this, except for the one they strongly imply but few have the courage to say openly: _*It's because Julia Ioffe is a leftist and the media-government complex has decided that leftists simply have more rights -- more freedoms, more latitude, more humanity -- than others.*_


Italics from the link, m'bold.

Yep.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Speaking of the Lying Left, let's bring this to light:
> 
> Hate Hoax: NYC Muslim Arrested After Claiming Attack by Trump Fans


Dumb kid, with overbearing conservative religious parents, did stupid thing.

What's interesting here is that you claim this is some diabolical plot by the "Leftist" media. But the media reported simply that the police were investigating an alleged attack, which they were. This is no distortion, lie or attempt at misinformation.

Curiously, having done a quick search among the non-"Lefty" media, I see that none of them reported the initial story at all.

What does this mean? That the right-wing news outlets appear to not publish news that goes against the narrative they wish to present. All media could be expected to report the initial story, as *it was a story*. That it later proved to be false (and the "Lefty" media is also reporting this) is not the point. They can't go back in time and un-publish something that later was shown to be false.

IF anything, this incident and the reporting around it reveals the bias that exists among the right-wing news outlets in censoring the story.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/o...c=edit_tnt_20161215&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y

A very interesting article, which is relevant to Mark's previous posting above.


----------



## CubaMark

*The lunacy just never ends.....* :yikes:

*Sheriff Joe Arpaio: Probe proves Obama birth certificate is fake*










PHOENIX — It was a presentation hyped by a tauntingly brief media notification more than 24 hours earlier: On Thursday afternoon, it said, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio would present the newest revelations on an investigation into President Obama’s birth certificate.

At 4 p.m. sharp, Arpaio and a member of his Sheriff's Office's Cold Case Posse had a big message for the 40-odd journalists in attendance: You were wrong.

Arpaio and his aides announced that a five-year investigation had proved that Obama’s birth certificate from Hawaii in 1961 was a fake. An accompanying presentation highlighted what they called “9 points of forgery” on the document, which focused on the angles of date stamps, typed letters and words.

According to the theory, the birth certificate presented to the public was created after copying and pasting information from the legitimate birth certificate of a woman born in Hawaii.​
(USA Today)


----------



## FeXL

Yeah! Crazy, huh?...

Fake Newsweek Covers Exposure of Trump-Voters-Harassed-Muslim-Teen Hoax Just the Way You'd Expect Fake Newsweek to Do



> The hatred of Trump voters drove her to fabricate a story about the hatred of Trump voters, you see.
> 
> _Seweid was one of many Muslims to report being harassed in the wake of Donald Trump's election and to have their stories picked up by the media. Seweid told police that three white men, who appeared to be intoxicated, tried to pull off her hijab on a No. 6 train at East 23rd Street. In a Facebook post that has since been deleted, she also claimed that they called her a terrorist and told her: "Get the hell out of the country." Seweid said no one on the subway came to help her.
> 
> ...
> 
> Robina Niaz, founder of Turning Point for Women and Families, an organization for Muslim women and girls based in Flushing, New York, says the pressure on Muslim women and girls, especially those who wear head coverings and are visibly Muslim, is enormous, especially since Trump's election. Niaz says she founded the organization after the September 11, 2001 attacks because she "felt girls and women had just become trapped, especially the ones who were facing abuse or pressure at home."_​
> Wait, we seem to have lost the plot here -- who is abusing them at home? Trump? Or their dads?
> 
> How is pressure or abuse from their dads or brothers any sort of commentary on Trump?


Questions, questions.

Teen made up story about anti-Muslim attack on subway



> The Muslim teen who claimed three drunks taunted her as a “terrorist” on a Manhattan subway train now admits she lied to cops — who arrested her on Wednesday.
> 
> *Yasmin Seweid, 18, is charged with obstructing governmental administration and filing a false report, according to a high-ranking police source.
> 
> Both charges are misdemeanors punishable by up to a year in jail.*
> 
> Seweid, who lives in Nassau County, had claimed the hateful drunks shouted, “Trump! Trump!” and called her a “terrorist” as they tried to steal her headscarf. “Go back to your country!” she said they shouted during the supposed Dec. 1 attack.


M'bold.

Not long enough. 

Watch the sentencing. Any takers it doesn't come close to a year? Little slap on the wrists & she's out to fabricate the next lie? Victim!!!



CubaMark said:


> *The lunacy just never ends.....*


----------



## FeXL

Seeing as the Progs are impressed by numbers, not results.

About that "popular vote".......................from Rico 



> *About that popular vote.*
> Yeah, about that "popular vote" baloney the sore losers keep whining about...
> 
> *Hillary lost.*
> Trump WON 3,084 of America's 3,141 counties.
> - That leaves a whopping total of 57 counties that went for Hillary.
> 
> Trump WON the popular vote in 30 states. Hillary in 20.
> - Seven of Barry's 57 states are still MIA, but even if they all went for Hillary, that still leaves her with the popular vote in fewer states than Trump.


Links' bold.

And, while we're at it, a few topic-related smiles. And folks, remember, Bill's Wife will never be president of the USA.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Being funny starts with a decent impression--it's the writing that's so lousy.





Dr.G. said:


> On that, we agree. They had some good writing during the Clinton-Trump debates, but that came straight from the actual debate transcripts. Last night's skit did not elicit a laugh from me. Paix, mon ami.





Dr.G. said:


> I have to admit that I have been a SNL fan over the years, but only for certain groups /persons (e.g., the original cast, Al Franken, Mike Myers, Rich Short, et al).





SINC said:


> Like I stated earlier, they used to be funny. Now they just suck.





Rps said:


> I agree. Satire and political humour is very difficult to write on a consistent basis. SNL had its run, but should have term limits like the government it mocks. I guess I am showing my age but I remember the real masters of political satire such as That Was The Week That Was, why even the CBC had some great shows which skewered the government of the day. Unfortunately they don't have anything even close today.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Glory Days
> Don't let 'em pass you by
> Glory Days
> In the wink of a young girl's eyes
> 
> To write off a show entirely because it doesn't match your selective memory is typical sign of old age. SNL had stinkers even back in the glory days and some gems now and again today. That's how it is with live comedy television. They can't all be good. But this all-or-none dismissivism of some of all y'all says more about you than it does about the shows you watch.





Macfury said:


> Nope--it's perfect accuracy. You seem to be in a sort of To those who think SNL has sucked since the early "Golden era"


Well first of all humour is quite subjective, there is no accounting for taste. But I will say this, during the years when Lorne Michaels was not involved with show (in the early 1980s (seasons 6–10) it was pretty bad all around with a few exceptions. When he returned the show became very good even great at times.

If the show was crap after the years of Chevy, Dan, Gilda, Bill, Jane, John etc. then I highly doubt they would all these awards and nominations to their credit:



> Throughout four decades on air, Saturday Night Live has received a number of awards, including 50 Primetime Emmy Awards, two Peabody Awards, and three Writers Guild of America Awards. In 2000, it was inducted into the National Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. It was ranked tenth in TV Guide's "50 Greatest TV Shows of All Time" list, and in 2007 it was listed as one of Time magazine's "100 Best TV Shows of All-TIME". As of 2012, it has received 156 Emmy nominations, the most received by any TV show.



Saturday Night Live

As for "sketchy writing", it was always the case even with the original cast, it was always hit and miss. Sometimes shows were great and sometimes they were bad. The guest hosts and the musical acts also helped to flavour the "quality" of any given show.

Also let us not forget all the great talent that came out of the show after the original cast. Here is a "short list, in no particular order, after the "good old years".

Robert Downey Jr. 1985-1986
Colin Quinn 1995-2000
Norm Macdonald 1993-1998
Sarah Silverman 1993-1994
Joan Cusack 1985-1986 
Michael McKean (1994-1995)
Harry Shearer (1979-1980, 1984-1985)
Rich Hall 1984-1985
Joe Piscopo 1980-1984
Horatio Sanz 1998-2006
Paul Shaffer 1975-1980
Jay Pharoah 2010-present
Tracy Morgan 1996-2003
Will Forte 2002-2010
Darrell Hammond 1995-2009
Tim Meadows 1991-2000
Kenan Thompson 2003-present
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1982-1985
Vanessa Bayer 2010-present
Don Novello 1978-1980; 1985-1986
Molly Shannon 1995-2001
Cecily Strong 2012-present
Kate McKinnon 2012-present
Jimmy Fallon 1998-2004
Chris Parnell 1998-2006
Dennis Miller 1985-1991
Seth Meyers 2001-2014
David Spade 1990-1996
Jason Sudeikis 2005-2013
Fred Armisen 2002-2013
Andy Samberg 2005-2012
Chris Rock 1990-1993
Al Franken 1975-1980; 1985-1995
Jon Lovitz 1985-1990
Maya Rudolph 2000-2007
Adam Sandler 1990-1995
Chris Farley 1990-1995
Kristen Wiig 2005-2012
Bill Hader 2005-2013
Will Ferrell 1995-2002
Dana Carvey 1986-1993
Amy Poehler 2001-2008
Phil Hartman 1986-1994
Mike Myers 1989-1995
Tina Fey 2000-2006
Eddie Murphy 1980-1984


----------



## Macfury

I didn't really like the original cast that much--just a few years between.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Seeing as the Progs are impressed by numbers, not results.
> 
> About that "popular vote".......................from Rico


You just don't understand numbers, do you?

It doesn't matter how many counties Trump won: the issue is what are the populations of those counties.

If Trump won 30 counties each with a population of 10,000 people, and Clinton won 20 counties each with a population of 50,000 people, then Clinton won more of the popular vote.

Are you intentionally trying to mislead, or is your ability to understand what you read on your right-wing wacko websites somehow impaired? 

XX)


----------



## Macfury

He's pointing out the obvious--thr popular vote does not matter. If Trump had wanted to win the popular vote he would have spent more time in NY and California.



CubaMark said:


> You just don't understand numbers, do you?
> 
> It doesn't matter how many counties Trump won: the issue is what are the populations of those counties.
> 
> If Trump won 30 counties each with a population of 10,000 people, and Clinton won 20 counties each with a population of 50,000 people, then Clinton won more of the popular vote.
> 
> Are you intentionally trying to mislead, or is your ability to understand what you read on your right-wing wacko websites somehow impaired?
> 
> XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

What happens if the electoral college goes rogue? - CNNPolitics.com

Talk about complicated!?! Still, it does provide a bit of hope for Clinton. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> What happens if the electoral college goes rogue? - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about complicated!?! Still, it does provide a bit of hope for Clinton. We shall see.



It's not hope for Clinton so much as it is pointing out the illegitimacy of Trump as Commander in Chief. There has never been a less qualified President-Elect, and America has never been in such a position of being a puppet controlled by the Kremlin. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's not hope for Clinton so much as it is pointing out the illegitimacy of Trump as Commander in Chief. There has never been a less qualified President-Elect, and America has never been in such a position of being a puppet controlled by the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You gotta quit watching those fake news channels. They are not moderate rebels, they are US backed Al Queda terrorists. It is not regime change, it is attempting to overthrow the elected government of a Sovereign nation. And finally it was not Russian hackers it was leaks from within the Clinton Cabal, not to mention the FBI seizing John Podesta and Anthony Wieners computers and releasing choice eMails directly to Congress.

Trump may well prove to be a puppet but pulling the strings will be the same banksters and other assorted criminals that make Hillary dance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> You gotta quit watching those fake news channels. They are not moderate rebels, they are US backed Al Queda terrorists. It is not regime change, it is attempting to overthrow the elected government of a Sovereign nation. And finally it was not Russian hackers it was leaks from within the Clinton Cabal, not to mention the FBI seizing John Podesta and Anthony Wieners computers and releasing choice eMails directly to Congress.
> 
> Trump may well prove to be a puppet but pulling the strings will be the same banksters and other assorted criminals that make Hillary dance.



You may be on to something there, eMacMan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It would be funny if it were not all too true.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again, very true. This situation truly scares me.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's not hope for Clinton so much as it is pointing out the illegitimacy of Trump as Commander in Chief. There has never been a less qualified President-Elect, and America has never been in such a position of being a puppet controlled by the Kremlin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Once again, all too true and we should ALL be scared at this scenario. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/o...t_tnt_20161216&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

An interesting article on this topic.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Once again, all too true, Mark. Paz, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

Obama just had to be in the right place at the right time--just as Trump was. Nobody cared about Obama's credentials, and McCain ran as though he wanted Obama to win.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama just had to be in the right place at the right time--just as Trump was. Nobody cared about Obama's credentials, and McCain ran as though he wanted Obama to win.


True that Pres. Obama was the right person at the right time in the right election. America truly needed him when he became president. I don't feel that McCain would have been a bad president, but Pres. Obama has been a far better president than either McCain or Romney would have been. Sadly, not enough people cared about Hillary Clinton's experience and credentials. I still feel that had Bernie Sanders gotten the nomination he would have beaten Trump. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True that Pres. Obama was the right person at the right time in the right election. America truly needed him when he became president. I don't feel that McCain would have been a bad president, but Pres. Obama has been a far better president than either McCain or Romney would have been. Sadly, not enough people cared about Hillary Clinton's experience and credentials. I still feel that had Bernie Sanders gotten the nomination he would have beaten Trump. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


If felt that both candidates in 2008 were sorely lacking--but that Obama was what voters wanted. Hillary Clinton's experiences revolved mostly around coverups and chicanery--and disastrous regime change in Egypt and Libya--she only has her own terrible record to blame for her loss.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....Nobody cared about Obama's credentials....


Riiiiiiiiight. He could'a been a mechanic from Boise, he would'a been elected.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Riiiiiiiiight. He could'a been a mechanic from Boise, he would'a been elected.
> 
> :lmao:


They cared that he was a senator--they did not care about being the editor of the Harvard Law School Review.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If felt that both candidates in 2008 were sorely lacking--but that Obama was what voters wanted. Hillary Clinton's experiences revolved mostly around coverups and chicanery--and disastrous regime change in Egypt and Libya--she only has her own terrible record to blame for her loss.


Well, luckily Pres. Obama was NOT lacking and was elected. He helped to get the US out of the financial crisis of 2008/09. Obamacare, if it survives, will have helped millions of people. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Riiiiiiiiight. He could'a been a mechanic from Boise, he would'a been elected.
> 
> :lmao:


Yes ................. especially if he was a Harvard Law School grad.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, if it worked for Milania, it could work for The Donald. He could "use" a few of JFK's classic phrases and make them his own. We shall see.

"We observe today not a victory of party but a celebration of freedom--symbolizing an end as well as a beginning--signifying renewal as well as change. 

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage--and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world. 

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 

This much we pledge--and more. 

So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. 

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. 

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. "


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The neo-McCarthyites are cracking me up. The losing progs in Great Britain are now blaming their humiliating Brexit loss on--Putin. Angela Merkel is already blaming Putin for what looks like a stunning prog defeat upcoming next fall. Check under your beds and in your closets, progs: BOO!!!!--it's Vladimir Putin!


I don't believe it is true, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was.

I have no problem with anyone calling Putin, "the devil incarnate" or something of the kind because I firmly believe he is, after all he is former KGB and we all know that they all had 666 birthmarks somewhere on their body where no one could see it.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> I don't believe it is true, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was.
> 
> I have no problem with anyone calling Putin, "the devil incarnate" or something of the kind because I firmly believe he is, after all he is former KGB and we all know that they all had 666 birthmarks somewhere on their body where no one could see it.


A wise word of caution, screature. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, luckily Pres. Obama was NOT lacking and was elected. He helped to get the US out of the financial crisis of 2008/09. Obamacare, if it survives, will have helped millions of people. We shall see.


An empty chair could have gotten the US out of that crisis faster then Obama.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> An empty chair could have gotten the US out of that crisis faster then Obama.


You've been watching too many Clint Eastwood clips of him talking to an empty chair. This was one crisis when, just like FDR, it was good to have an effective president in the White House. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> You've been watching too many Clint Eastwood clips of him talking to an empty chair. This was one crisis when, just like FDR, it was good to have an effective president in the White House. Paix, mon ami.



There are far too many people who have absolutely no idea how much Obama earned the title of POTUS. He is an intelligent man who fulfilled his duties faithfully despite incredible obstacles and resistance, especially in his second term. He deserves our respect, not pithy dismissive unintelligent one-offs. Clint's skit with the empty chair made him look like a doddering idiot, and I LIKE Clint and his body of work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> There are far too many people who have absolutely no idea how much Obama earned the title of POTUS. He is an intelligent man who fulfilled his duties faithfully despite incredible obstacles and resistance, especially in his second term. He deserves our respect, not pithy dismissive unintelligent one-offs. Clint's skit with the empty chair made him look like a doddering idiot, and I LIKE Clint and his body of work.


Once again the left have no idea of the rage building with members of the right as demonstrated in the recent US election. 

Perhaps when that same rage in Canada results in the outright rejection of the Alberta NDP come 2019 they will understand it is not only real, it will result in change.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Once again the left have no idea of the rage building with members of the right as demonstrated in the recent US election.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps when that same rage in Canada results in the outright rejection of the Alberta NDP come 2019 they will understand it is not only real, it will result in change.



Oh God. You're still beating that dead horse? You really need some fresh ideas, Don. There are still a good two and a half years to go in that mandate, and given that fumbling between Brian Jean, Jason Kenney, Derek Fildebrandt and whichever other idiots are trying to unite the right, you can count on the right to cancel each other out yet again and hand Notley a second victory.

And again, you have absolutely no idea of the destructive power of the right electing a complete unqualified idiot the keys to the kingdom. They may be cheering now, but many on the right are already starting to experience buyer's remorse. Trump is not the cure for an ailing economy and his unrepentant narcissism will bring the US to the brink of war on several fronts. Then perhaps people will appreciate what a great leader Obama was.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> There are far too many people who have absolutely no idea how much Obama earned the title of POTUS. He is an intelligent man who fulfilled his duties faithfully despite incredible obstacles and resistance, especially in his second term. He deserves our respect, not pithy dismissive unintelligent one-offs. Clint's skit with the empty chair made him look like a doddering idiot, and I LIKE Clint and his body of work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, Frank, on both of your points. Pres. Obama has been a good president, both for the country and the office of the presidency. As well, I too like Clint Eastwood. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Once again the left have no idea of the rage building with members of the right as demonstrated in the recent US election.
> 
> Perhaps when that same rage in Canada results in the outright rejection of the Alberta NDP come 2019 they will understand it is not only real, it will result in change.


Based upon the popular vote, for Sanders in the primaries and for Clinton in the general election, the rage is not from the right or left, but for a certain sort of change. This is why I feel that Sanders would have beaten Trump had they gone head to hear. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Based upon the popular vote, for Sanders in the primaries and for Clinton in the general election, the rage is not from the right or left, but for a certain sort of change. This is why I feel that Sanders would have beaten Trump had they gone head to hear. Paix, mon ami.


Well, no matter where it is from, it is real. People have had it with the politically correct greenies and their hair brained ideas. People want to be able to speak their mind without being bullied and ridiculed by a small majority who think they know it all and try to run the world. What they are really doing is ruining the world. Enough already.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Well, no matter where it is from, it is real. People have had it with the politically correct greenies and their hair brained ideas. People want to be able to speak their mind without being bullied and ridiculed by a small majority who think they know it all and try to run the world. What they are really doing is ruining the world. Enough already.


Don, you sound like a Sanders supporter. He spoke out against the "elite" who want/do run the world. He also used the phrase "enough already" quite often in his speeches. He also was against people being "bullied and ridiculed" for standing up for what is right. So, welcome to the cause. "This time I know our side will win."

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/u...t_tnt_20161218&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Maybe we can "expect the unexpected"? That would be a nice pre-Christmas/Hanukkah gift. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, I'm enjoying your bitter prog tears over the US election! Bailing out the US banks, Wall Street and General Motors were exactly the wrong things to do during the 2008 financial crisis. That's why an empty chair could have done better work.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Freddie, I'm enjoying your bitter prog tears over the US election! Bailing out the US banks, Wall Street and General Motors were exactly the wrong things to do during the 2008 financial crisis. That's why an empty chair could have done better work.


Macfury, you too are sounding a great deal like a Sanders supporter. This is becoming a Bernie lovefest. Welcome to the cause. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, no matter where it is from, it is real. People have had it with the politically correct greenies and their hair brained ideas. People want to be able to speak their mind without being bullied and ridiculed by a small majority who think they know it all and try to run the world. What they are really doing is ruining the world. Enough already.



Well that's ironic, given that Trump excels at bullying. His comments about women, his mockery of a disabled man, his refusal to pay contractors he hired, his demeanour toward Mexicans and Muslims. If that's not bullying, I don't know what is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I guess you don't know what bullying is. It may be because you constantly imagine yourself to be a victim of bullying.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that's ironic, given that Trump excels at bullying. His comments about women, his mockery of a disabled man, his refusal to pay contractors he hired, his demeanour toward Mexicans and Muslims. If that's not bullying, I don't know what is.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oh God. You're still beating that dead horse? You really need some fresh ideas, Don. There are still a good two and a half years to go in that mandate, and given that fumbling between Brian Jean, Jason Kenney, Derek Fildebrandt and whichever other idiots are trying to unite the right, you can count on the right to cancel each other out yet again and hand Notley a second victory.
> 
> And again, you have absolutely no idea of the destructive power of the right electing a complete unqualified idiot the keys to the kingdom. They may be cheering now, but many on the right are already starting to experience buyer's remorse. Trump is not the cure for an ailing economy and his unrepentant narcissism will bring the US to the brink of war on several fronts. Then perhaps people will appreciate what a great leader Obama was.


Well Frank, there you go again with your very own version of "no idea" what Notley has wrought upon herself. She and the NDP will lose 80 to 90% of the vote she had when she was accidentally elected by an angry Alberta. Now that she has further angered the rest of her supporters, combined with voter's regret carried over from the past election, she and the inexperienced idiots she appointed to cabinet will be gone in 2019 regardless of what happens with the right.

All I meant by the US results is that you can expect the very same thing to happen here in 2019 both in Alberta and federally.


----------



## FeXL

You earn the title by winning the election. That is all. No more, no less.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There are far too many people who have absolutely no idea how much Obama earned the title of POTUS.


He may be an intelligent man. However, as POTUS, he has been an abject failure. 

His foreign policy sucked. His domestic policy alienated & divided races. His big Charlie Foxtrot, Obamacare, was doomed to fail from the beginning & has been going through it's death throes since day one. As has been pointed out, an empty chair would have had quicker & more effective results on the economy than he did. He amassed a greater deficit in 6 years than the accumulated deficits of all 43 presidents before him. 

And, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Jimmy Carter can thank Barry for ousting him from the title of Worst President Ever.

That's some record to be proud of. He deserves every pithy comment directed at him.



Freddie_Biff said:


> He is an intelligent man who fulfilled his duties faithfully despite incredible obstacles and resistance, especially in his second term. He deserves our respect, not pithy dismissive unintelligent one-offs.


Clint's skit with the chair was brilliant. The fact that you don't get it speaks more about you than him.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Clint's skit with the empty chair made him look like a doddering idiot, and I LIKE Clint and his body of work.


----------



## FeXL

When even their own start asking questions...

“I’m not putting another f***ing dime in until someone tells me what just happened”



> “A lot of the bundlers and donors still are in shock and disbelief by what happened. They’re looking for some introspection and analysis about what really happened, what worked and what didn’t,” said Ken Martin, chairman of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party and a top campaign bundler himself. “It may take some time to do that, but people are still just scratching their heads.”


Slowly, surely...

But, THE RUSSKIES!!!


----------



## FeXL

So, further on the lying Muslim teen, Yasmin Seweid & _family_.

First off, her sister is just pissed that the incident was even investigated:

Sister Of Hijab Hoaxer Lashes Out At Media, New York City Police



> The sister of Yasmin Seweid, the 18-year-old Muslim woman who lied about being harassed by a group of Donald Trump supporters on the New York City subway earlier this month, is blaming the media and the New York City police department for investigating the story.
> 
> *In a Facebook post on Thursday, Sara Seweid also appeared to excuse her hoaxing sister, expressing concern over the “mental state of young Muslim women who feel that they have to lie so intensely to survive.”*


M'bold.

I'm pretty concerned about the mental state of anybody who has to conjure up fake stories about racially motivated attacks to forward their agenda.

But, it gets better. See, Miss Seweid has another sibling. A brother, who, 4 years ago reported a false incident, as well! 

NYPD: Muslim teenager who reported harassment by Trump supporters made the story up



> Seweid's older brother, Abdoul, was also charged with reporting a false incident in 2012. He claimed that a friend was assaulted by "three unknown males," reports the Daily News.


Curiouser & curiouser...


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oh God. You're still beating that dead horse? You really need some fresh ideas, Don. There are still a good two and a half years to go in that mandate, and given that fumbling between Brian Jean, Jason Kenney, Derek Fildebrandt and whichever other idiots are trying to unite the right, you can count on the right to cancel each other out yet again and hand Notley a second victory.
> 
> And again, you have absolutely no idea of the destructive power of the right electing a complete unqualified idiot the keys to the kingdom. They may be cheering now, but many on the right are already starting to experience buyer's remorse. Trump is not the cure for an ailing economy and his unrepentant narcissism will bring the US to the brink of war on several fronts. Then perhaps people will appreciate what a great leader Obama was.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jason Kenney is far from being an idiot. You may not like him or his politics but he is very intelligent.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Jason Kenney is far from being an idiot. You may not like him or his politics but he is very intelligent.



Have to disagree with you there. He is perceived as being manipulative and not entirely trustworthy. Did you read about his intrusion into the delegate convention last month, attempting to peddle his influence at the golf club where the delegates were meeting? He had booked a room down the hall, a practice forbidden by the PC convention rules. Doesn't seem like an intelligent move to me. 


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## Macfury

Didn't you once say Rachel Notley was intelligent because she was old?


----------



## Dr.G.

Should not the past few postings be in the Canadian Political thread and not in the American Political thread???


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Didn't you once say Rachel Notley was intelligent because she was old?



Ummm...no. That's how you misquoted me, certainly. As you have demonstrated many times over, age is certainly no indicator of intelligence in and of itself. 


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## HowEver

It will be interesting to how Trump performs in office. See how long it takes him to figure out how to change everything.


----------



## eMacMan

I will make the same prediction for Trump that I made for Obushma. The big change will be more of the same.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Didn't you once say Rachel Notley was intelligent because she was old?


Here's the original post:



fjnmusic said:


> Perhaps, but you have been hypercritical of her from the start, particularly with respect to intelligence. She has a law degree and 50 years of life experience to go with. She is very intelligent. You just can't see it and continue to insult her intelligence. Your comments seem very misogynistic in my opinion. And kind of whiny and repetitive too.


So, here we are, coming up on a year later & I'm still waiting for an explosion of intelligence to rear its head.

And, seeing as we're in the American Political thread, if a degree & 50 years of life experience make her intelligent, how does 70 years & a degree from an Ivy League school (U Penn) rank?

Don't bother, fjn. Just another rhetorical question...


----------



## SINC

Red Rachel is the most disappointing Alberta premier, intelligence wise in many years. The most disappointing display is hiring out of province NDP hacks to run her policies which are sucking the life out of our province.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Here's the original post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, here we are, coming up on a year later & I'm still waiting for an explosion of intelligence to rear its head.
> 
> 
> 
> And, seeing as we're in the American Political thread, if a degree & 50 years of life experience make her intelligent, how does 70 years & a degree from an Ivy League school (U Penn) rank?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother, fjn. Just another rhetorical question...



I stand by my words. I voted for Rachel's party and I think she is a far better leader than any of the other alternatives presented. I also realized something else: you're immensely boring to argue with. 


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## Dr.G.

HowEver said:


> It will be interesting to how Trump performs in office. See how long it takes him to figure out how to change everything.


Especially with a Republican controlled Congress that does not support some of his changes. Very strange. We shall see. Paix, mon amie.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Here's the original post:


Guess I was right--50 years of life experience makes her intelligent! A shame she uses that towering intelligence to destroy the economy of the province, hurt the poor and drive business into bankruptcy.

Guess it gets boring to be proved wrong so often!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Guess I was right--50 years of life experience makes her intelligent! A shame she uses that towering intelligence to destroy the economy of the province, hurt the poor and drive business into bankruptcy.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess it gets boring to be proved wrong so often!



More intelligent than you anyway. What exactly have you accomplished with your time so far on the planet? She has become premier of Alberta—no small task. Your contempt for others' accomplishments can be a rather unbecoming feature. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Red Rachel is the most disappointing Alberta premier, intelligence wise in many years. The most disappointing display is hiring out of province NDP hacks to run her policies which are sucking the life out of our province.















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I'm ahead of Notley--I haven't destroyed a province's economy yet, or killed the hope of its citizens and small businesses.



Freddie_Biff said:


> More intelligent than you anyway. What exactly have you accomplished with your time so far on the planet? She has become premier of Alberta—no small task. Your contempt for others' accomplishments can be a rather unbecoming feature.


----------



## Macfury

Why does that stupid guy in your image never understand the actual meanings of simple words? 



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## FeXL

She may have even been the best leader of the lot. However, it's what her party stands for that is entirely unacceptable to anybody with even a single clew.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I stand by my words. I voted for Rachel's party and I think she is a far better leader than any of the other alternatives presented.


Happens when you lose all the arguments. Especially when your own words are used to discredit you...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I also realized something else: you're immensely boring to argue with.


----------



## FeXL

You still don't get it, do you?

With all the dissatisfaction in the arrogant (CINO) Conservatives, and Wildrose fresh off a leadership & candidate desertion, and enough people around to recall the Liberal's NEP, Red Rachel fell into the position simply as a matter of "anybody but the above". An empty chair could have done as well. Anybody with any kind of integrity at all would have destroyed her.

No way in hell she comes back for a second term. I'm calling that right now, 2-1/2 years before the election. You already bet all the rice in China on Trump & lost. What are you willing to wager here?



Freddie_Biff said:


> She has become premier of Alberta—no small task.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> You already bet all the rice in China on Trump & lost. What are you willing to wager here?



I offered to put cash on the line for another "sure bet" but he didn't bite.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I offered to put cash on the line for another "sure bet" but he didn't bite.



That's because he doesn't bet with dishonourable men. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You still don't get it, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> With all the dissatisfaction in the arrogant (CINO) Conservatives, and Wildrose fresh off a leadership & candidate desertion, and enough people around to recall the Liberal's NEP, Red Rachel fell into the position simply as a matter of "anybody but the above". An empty chair could have done as well. Anybody with any kind of integrity at all would have destroyed her.
> 
> 
> 
> No way in hell she comes back for a second term. I'm calling that right now, 2-1/2 years before the election. You already bet all the rice in China on Trump & lost. What are you willing to wager here?



You still don't get it, do you? She may well not come back to win in 2 1/2 years, depending on whether the alt-right cluster****s can get their **** together. Doesn't matter. She can do a lot in that time. You have no more formidable opponent than one who has nothing to lose.

As far as Trump goes, he hasn't actually won anything yet. The Electoral College votes today. Though it would seem unlikely, there could still be a curve ball or two in play. 


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## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You still don't get it, do you? She may well not come back to win in 2 1/2 years, depending on whether the alt-right cluster****s can get their **** together. Doesn't matter. She can do a lot in that time. You have no more formidable opponent than one who has nothing to lose.
> 
> As far as Trump goes, he hasn't actually won anything yet. The Electoral College votes today. Though it would seem unlikely, there could still be a curve ball or two in play.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This entire election was a farce. What better ending than the electoral college overturning the results of the election and handing it to the Clinton Cabal.

One was as bad as t'other. Depending on your point of view either the worst or the second worst candidate won. The nation is the biggest loser regardless of which pile of dung is placed on the tarnished throne.


----------



## Macfury

Was that because SINC was going to hold the money?



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's because he doesn't bet with dishonourable men.


----------



## FeXL

She can do a lot in that time that can also be undone.



Freddie_Biff said:


> She can do a lot in that time.


Actually, he has. He has won president elect.

And, are you a betting man? The EC will go ahead as its mandate requires and President Donald Trump will enter office in January.

Oh, along with it's endorsement of his qualifications and concurrent refutation of your opinion that he isn't qualified for the job:



> ...Alexander Hamilton’s writing in Federalist Paper No. 68, which states that the meeting of the electoral college *“affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”*


M'bold.



Freddie_Biff said:


> As far as Trump goes, he hasn't actually won anything yet. The Electoral College votes today. Though it would seem unlikely, there could still be a curve ball or two in play.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I offered to put cash on the line for another "sure bet" but he didn't bite.


I wouldn't bet with him. I don't expect he'd pay up...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I wouldn't bet with him. I don't expect he'd pay up...


That's why I asked SINC to hold the money.


----------



## SINC

And being Scottish, I had no problem holding the dough, either.


----------



## eMacMan

Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, voted Trump. So far tally is Trump 166, Hillary 96

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/latest-trump-35-electoral-votes-163143590.html



> 2:14 p.m.
> North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah have pushed Republican Donald Trump closer to the 270 votes required to win the presidency.
> The states' electors gave Trump 166 electoral votes to Democrat Hillary Clinton's 96 as protests simmered around the country.
> Trump is poised to win 306 of the 538 electoral votes under the state-by-state distribution of electors used to choose presidents since 1789
> ___
> 2:02 p.m.
> A second elector — this one in Minnesota — has refused to cast a vote for Democrat Hillary Clinton in Monday's Electoral College tally.
> It wasn't immediately clear why Muhammad Abdurrahman didn't vote for Clinton, but he was a delegate for Bernie Sanders at the Democratic National Convention.
> The electors are pledged to cast Minnesota's 10 electoral votes for Clinton since she won the state.
> Abdurrahman was immediately replaced by an alternate who later voted for Clinton.
> Earlier in the day, a so-called "faithless elector" in Maine cast his vote for Sanders, who lost the Democratic presidential nomination to Clinton. David Bright said on his Facebook page that he cast his vote for Sanders because voting for Clinton would not have helped her win.
> ...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> This entire election was a farce. What better ending than the electoral college overturning the results of the election and handing it to the Clinton Cabal.
> 
> One was as bad as t'other. Depending on your point of view either the worst or the second worst candidate won. The nation is the biggest loser regardless of which pile of dung is placed on the tarnished throne.



Don't hold back, eMacMan—tell us how you really feel. 


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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I wouldn't bet with him. I don't expect he'd pay up...



Or vice-versa.


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## eMacMan

Interesting turn in Colorado where 6 of the 9 electors really could not stomach Hillary and were forced by a judge to vote against their conscience.

Colorado’s electoral votes go to Hillary Clinton after one is replaced – The Denver Post



> Nine Colorado electors on Monday cast their votes for Hillary Clinton, winner of the general election in the state, but only after one broke ranks and had to be replaced.
> Legal motions, rulings and arguments were made Monday all the way up until the votes were finally cast at about 12:45 p.m. Micheal Baca, an elector who was among the leaders of the effort to block Donald Trump from being elected, cast the sole vote for a candidate other than Clinton.
> 
> He was immediately replaced with another elector — amid boos and calls to replace the Colorado Secretary of State — who then voted for Clinton.
> 
> Attorneys for Democratic electors seeking to unbind their votes from Clinton had sought an emergency ruling Monday morning requiring Colorado Secretary of State Wayne Williams to use the oath set forth in the Constitution.
> 
> Williams had planned to have electors swear to “uphold duties of office” by voting for the winner of popular vote in Colorado, Clinton.
> 
> A judge granted the motion, and shortly after, Williams drafted a new oath that still required the electors to vote for the winner of the popular vote in Colorado. The new oath required electors to say that they “will vote for the presidential candidate and vice-presidential candidate who received the highest number of votes at the preceding general election in this state.”


----------



## FeXL

Wasn't me that lost. Or is going to lose the Alberta one. 

I'm just going by your behaviour here, fjn. Take no ownership, wiggle, squirm, detract, obfuscate. 




Freddie_Biff said:


> Or vice-versa.


----------



## FeXL

Congratulations, President Trump!

Interesting, the only voters who haven't followed suit so far have been Dems. No surprise. 

Quite the curveballs you predicted, fjn.


----------



## Macfury

Didn't you predict Trump would win the Electoral College, FeXL? Dead on!



FeXL said:


> Congratulations, President Trump!
> 
> Interesting, the only voters who haven't followed suit so far have been Dems. No surprise.
> 
> Quite the curveballs you predicted, fjn.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Didn't you predict Trump would win the Electoral College, FeXL? Dead on!


Thx, MF. I'd just like to note that I don't get any of my information from MSM. I trust in the little guys, the bloggers & the voice of the people. It's not rocket surgery if you pay attention to the proper news sources.


----------



## eMacMan

I think a number of people somehow thought that a state had "x" votes and would send all of the votes one way or another. So it was just a matter of swaying one or two states to change their votes.

In reality there is one voter for each vote, so there really was almost no chance of Hillary swaying 35 individual voters.

It did provide some entertainment as it was the Hillary states that produced a handful of Electoral College members who just could not pinch their noses tightly enough to vote Clinton.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Congratulations, President Trump!
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, the only voters who haven't followed suit so far have been Dems. No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite the curveballs you predicted, fjn.



Listen, you arrogant twack. You really ought to read more and gloat less. I said it seemed unlikely. And you wonder why people don't invite you to parties. 

"As far as Trump goes, he hasn't actually won anything yet. The Electoral College votes today. Though it would seem unlikely, there could still be a curve ball or two in play."


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## FeXL

If the rabbit hadn't stopped to take a crap, he'd a beat the turtle. Your team lost. Deal with it. Eight years, baby. Bill's Wife will never be President of the United States. Neither will Bernie Sanders. 

Furthermore, if the Republicans had the ability to shut down America, they would have done so during Barry's second term. Trust me. 

And, the reason the RNC wasn't hacked is because they didn't have some ignoramus clicking on email links like grandma trying to win a new iPhone.


----------



## FeXL

Hurts, donit? Next time you think about rubbing our noses in Red Rachel, consider this a little payback. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Listen, you arrogant twack.


Don't flatter yourself. I wouldn't come to any party you hosted anyway. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you wonder why people don't invite you to parties.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> If the rabbit hadn't stopped to take a crap, he'd a beat the turtle. Your team lost. Deal with it. Eight years, baby. Bill's Wife will never be President of the United States. Neither will Bernie Sanders.
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, if the Republicans had the ability to shut down America, they would have done so during Barry's second term. Trust me.
> 
> 
> 
> And, the reason the RNC wasn't hacked is because they didn't have some ignoramus clicking on email links like grandma trying to win a new iPhone.



Doesn't bother me personally, despite your perception that it does. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I was a Bernie fan from the start. Trump as commander in chief is a frightening prospect however, not just for the USA, but for the world in general, and for Canada in particular. He won't be doing us Canucks any favours, and he seems far too easy to provoke into emotional reaction. 


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## SINC

And now to sum up the so called grace and dignity from the White House. 
Yeah classy indeed.


----------



## Macfury

Syria, Libya, Iran, Egypt... and you wanted to give those clowns another shot at it instead of Trump who promises to reduce international conflict.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Doesn't bother me personally, despite your perception that it does. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I was a Bernie fan from the start. Trump as commander in chief is a frightening prospect however, not just for the USA, but for the world in general, and for Canada in particular. He won't be doing us Canucks any favours, and he seems far too easy to provoke into emotional reaction.


----------



## Macfury

This one made me laugh:


----------



## Macfury

We'll miss that steady hand on the golf club... er, ship of state:

Obama Heads to Golf Course After Receiving Reports on Berlin Attack and Russian Ambassador Death | Mediaite


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Syria, Libya, Iran, Egypt... and you wanted to give those clowns another shot at it instead of Trump who promises to reduce international conflict.



And exactly how do you suppose Trump expects to accomplish that? The man lacks basic intelligence, let alone diplomacy. He can be set off by the slightest provocation. Will he just bomb the ****e out of everybody? Or only those who insult him?











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## Macfury

By not attacking foreign countries in which the US has no business, and saying NO to regime change--unlike the Democrat progs who have a reputation for both.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And exactly how do you suppose Trump expects to accomplish that? The man lacks basic intelligence, let alone diplomacy. He can be set off by the slightest provocation. Will he just bomb the ****e out of everybody? Or only those who insult him?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> By not attacking foreign countries in which the US has no business, and saying NO to regime change--unlike the Democrat progs who have a reputation for both.



Uh huh. I don't believe the Democrat "progs" were in charge of the occupation of either Afghanistan or Iraq. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh huh. I don't believe the Democrat "progs" were in charge of the occupation of either Afghanistan or Iraq.


Nope--they just voted to support the Bush administration to occupy those countries... and then were responsible for mismanaging occupied territories into utter chaos by withdrawing troops with no plan for the aftermath.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nope--they just voted to support the Bush administration to occupy those countries... and then were responsible for mismanaging occupied territories into utter chaos by withdrawing troops with no plan for the aftermath.



Good Lord. Even when the Republicans are responsible for poor decisions it's the "progs" fault in your world. And you believe you're being objective. 


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## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> .... It's not rocket surgery .....


Way to murder some idioms.....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Way to murder some idioms.....


It's a post-modern idiom. Never heard it before?


----------



## FeXL

I could tell from your "arrogant twack" observation. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Doesn't bother me personally...


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Even when the Republicans are responsible for poor decisions it's the "progs" fault in your world. And you believe you're being objective.


Afghanistan and Iraq were great examples of bipartisanship.


----------



## FeXL

Some journalist. It's a mixed metaphor. Time for some middle school English review...



CubaMark said:


> Way to murder some idioms...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## Macfury

And what should Trump have said in these Tweets about Aleppo, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And what should Trump have said in these Tweets about Aleppo, Freddie?



Anything would be better than nothing for a President-Elect, don't you think, Macfury? Perhaps "Our hearts are full of sadness today for the the dead and the injured in Aleppo." 

Unless he can show that he actually cares about others, he will not be a President for the people.


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## Dr.G.

Sadly, all too true. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## SINC

Well, I like presidents who aren't John McCain.

So what?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, I like presidents who aren't John McCain.
> 
> 
> 
> So what?




Clearly, the parallelism is lost on you in this instance, mon ami. 


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## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's that Russian hacker load of crap again. 

Consider the source. A leaked CIA secret document.

Consider the proof. Zero, zip, nada.

Back to the source. What is the CIA's most valued tool? Deception. What else does the CIA do at every opportunity? Interfere with elections. If you're not spotting the big red flag, you are obviously colour blind.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Clearly, the parallelism is lost on you in this instance, mon ami.


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

You're kidding right?

If not, you have no idea:



eMacMan said:


> There's that Russian hacker load of crap again.
> 
> Consider the source. A leaked CIA secret document.
> 
> Consider the proof. Zero, zip, nada.
> 
> Back to the source. What is the CIA's most valued tool? Deception. What else does the CIA do at every opportunity? Interfere with elections. If you're not spotting the big red flag, you are obviously colour blind.


----------



## eMacMan

A somewhat long winded version of what I posted previously.

Honest News Anchor Destroys CIA Russia Hack Claims in Under 5 Minutes – Anonymous

The last two paragraphs are worth quoting.


> Swann concludes, _“So what you need to know is that on top of all of these questions is one fundamental issue that everyone is missing: The claim is that Russia decided to hack the election — not by altering voting results — but by making public actual emails from the Clinton campaign and the DNC._
> 
> _“Look, I have said this before and I will say it again: _*how bizarre is it that the argument is not that the Russians were trying to influence the election through lies or electronic voting; but, rather, the claim — if you really boil it down — is that the Russians swayed the election for Donald Trump by revealing the truth about the Clinton campaign and the truth about the DNC.”*


----------



## Macfury

In other words, you expected him to pay lip service to your needs to hear some empty posturing about Aleppo. Unbelievable!





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.









Freddie_Biff said:


> Anything would be better than nothing for a President-Elect, don't you think, Macfury? Perhaps "Our hearts are full of sadness today for the the dead and the injured in Aleppo."
> 
> Unless he can show that he actually cares about others, he will not be a President for the people.


----------



## Macfury

It must really kill McCain to see Trump prevail when he choked so badly in his own campaign.



SINC said:


> Well, I like presidents who aren't John McCain.
> 
> So what?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> In other words, you expected him to pay lip service to your needs to hear some empty posturing about Aleppo. Unbelievable!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



I don't suppose you have a..... what's it called.....that thing that beats.....a heart somewhere inside that bulk? 


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## Macfury

Yes--and it doesn't inspire me to want to make politicians Tweet about tragedies. 

When Trump spoke publicly about Aleppo (sorry he did not meet your Tweet test) it was with the understanding that US policy on Syria helped to bring about that tragedy. After Obama armed rebel armies to overthrow Assad and fight directly with Russian backed forces, what response would be appropriate--"I feel terrible about the humanitarian tragedy that Obama brought about?"



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't suppose you have a..... what's it called.....that thing that beats.....a heart somewhere inside that bulk?


----------



## Macfury

More grim news for the Obama legacy:

U.S. Economic Confidence Inches Up to New High | Gallup



> Americans’ confidence in the economy continues to gradually strengthen after last month’s post-election surge. Gallup’s U.S. Economic Confidence Index averaged +10 for the week ending Dec. 18, marking another new high in its nine-year trend.
> 
> The latest figure is up slightly from the index’s previous high of +8 recorded in both of the prior two weeks. The first positive double-digit index score since the inception of Gallup Daily tracking in 2008 reflects *a stark change in Americans’ confidence in the U.S. economy from the negative views they expressed in most weeks over the past nine years.*



All-America Survey: Optimism surges over stocks



> The CNBC All-America Economic Survey for the fourth quarter found that the percentage of Americans who believe the economy will get better in the next year jumped an unprecedented 17 points to 42 percent, compared with before the election. *It’s the highest level since President Barack Obama was first elected in 2008.*


----------



## Macfury

Hillary Clinton named to GQ's "Least influential people of 2016" list!

The Least Influential People Of 2016 | GQ


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Hillary Clinton named to GQ's "Least influential people of 2016" list!
> 
> The Least Influential People Of 2016 | GQ


I get the feeling GQ is not a fan of Trump


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I get the feeling GQ is not a fan of Trump


Ha! They were still licking their wounds over naming him to that same list a few years back.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Society evolves not by shouting each other down, but by the unique capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other."
Lewis Thomas


----------



## SINC

Another revealing look at Obama's ways. 

Congress: Obama Fired Scientist to Advance 'Climate'� Agenda | Climate Change Dispatch


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Another revealing look at Obama's ways.
> 
> Congress: Obama Fired Scientist to Advance 'Climate'� Agenda | Climate Change Dispatch


If a Republican had done the same thing, the EhMac shills would be out wailing that the administration was "anti-science" and "muzzled its scientists."


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> "Society evolves not by shouting each other down, but by the unique capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other."
> Lewis Thomas


Science evolves when the old guard dies.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> Science evolves when the old guard dies.




Not sure how this relates to what Dr. G said about individuals comprehending one another. 


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## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> Science evolves when the old guard dies.


An interesting point, heavyall. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not sure how this relates to what Dr. G said about individuals comprehending one another.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There might be a connection, Frank. When the "old guard" dies away after years of denying scientific facts and theories, scientific inquiry and the search for truth evolves in a positive sense. Think of the Enlightenment. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

94% of jobs won back during the Obama "recovery" were part-time jobs:

http://dataspace.princeton.edu/jspui/bitstream/88435/dsp01zs25xb933/3/603.pdf


----------



## Dr.G.

"Christmas is not a time nor a season, but a state of mind. To cherish peace and goodwill... is to have the real spirit of Christmas." Calvin Coolidge

"The business of America is business." Calvin Coolidge


----------



## Dr.G.

"So even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. 

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal." 

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood. 

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. 

I have a dream that little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. 

I have a dream today." Martin Luther King, Jr.



"I have a scheme to make America great again." Donald Trump


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From a friend on another forum. For your consideration.



Lindigo said:


> I said before I wished a linguist would analyze Trump's vocabulary because I thought he had the language skills of a mediocre third grader. Third or forth grader it is!
> 
> http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...talks-like-a-third-grader-121340#.VdDlZflVhBc
> 
> In the August 6th Republican candidates debate, Trump answered the moderators’ questions with linguistic austerity. Run through the Flesch-Kincaid grade-level test, his text of responses score at the *4th-grade reading level. For Trump, that’s actually pretty advanced.* All the other candidates rated higher, with Ted Cruz earning 9th-grade status. Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, and Scott Walker scored at the 8th-grade level. John Kasich, the next-lowest after Trump, got a 5th-grade score.
> 
> Trump’s low grade at the debates wasn’t a fluke. *His comments from an August 11 news conference in Michigan earned only a 3rd-grade score.
> *
> Flattening the English language whenever he speaks without a script, Trump relies heavily on words such as “very” and “great,” and the pronouns “we” and “I,” which is his favorite word. As any news observer can observe, he lives to diminish his foes by calling them “losers,” “total losers,” “haters,” “dumb,” “idiots,” “morons,” “stupid,” “dummy” and “ disgusting.” He can’t open his mouth without bragging about getting the Clintons to attend his wedding, about how smart he is, the excellence of his real estate projects, the brilliance of his TV show, his generous donations to other political campaigns and so on. In a freakish way, Trump resembles that of Muhammad Ali at his prime—except the champ was always kidding (even when he was right) while Trump seems to believe his claims (and often is wrong). Or perhaps he is afflicted with binary vision disorder, which renders all within his eyeshot either great or rotten.
> 
> *It’s obvious that Trump’s verbal deficit, as grating as it may be on the ears of the educated class, has not caused him much political pain. The media has noted the opposite*: Trump’s overreliance on sports and war metaphors in his public utterances, his reductionist, one-dimensional policy prescriptions—including nuanced geopolitical arguments such as get tough with China and Mexico, which are killing us!—inspire trust in many rather than distrust. Trump’s rejection of “convoluted nuance” and “politically correct norms,” mark him as authentic in certain corners and advance his cred as a plainspoken guardian of the American way.






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## CubaMark

*Using 1953 Law, Obama Indefinitely Blocks Offshore Oil Drilling in Arctic and Atlantic*

_President Obama has announced a permanent ban on offshore oil and gas drilling across wide swaths of the Arctic and the Atlantic Seaboard. Obama used an obscure 63-year-old law, in a move that incoming President Donald Trump may not be able to reverse. The announcement bans all future oil and gas leases for the Arctic’s Chukchi Sea, as well as the vast majority of the Beaufort Sea. _​









(Details: Democracy Now!)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Using 1953 Law, Obama Indefinitely Blocks Offshore Oil Drilling in Arctic and Atlantic*
> 
> 
> 
> _President Obama has announced a permanent ban on offshore oil and gas drilling across wide swaths of the Arctic and the Atlantic Seaboard. Obama used an obscure 63-year-old law, in a move that incoming President Donald Trump may not be able to reverse. The announcement bans all future oil and gas leases for the Arctic’s Chukchi Sea, as well as the vast majority of the Beaufort Sea. _​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Details: Democracy Now!)



Parting shot. Well worth it. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Parting shot. Well worth it.


Until of course, someone undoes it.


----------



## Macfury

Permanent? That's pretty funny. Hey Obama... you're fired!



CubaMark said:


> *Using 1953 Law, Obama Indefinitely Blocks Offshore Oil Drilling in Arctic and Atlantic*
> 
> _President Obama has announced a permanent ban on offshore oil and gas drilling across wide swaths of the Arctic and the Atlantic Seaboard. Obama used an obscure 63-year-old law, in a move that incoming President Donald Trump may not be able to reverse. The announcement bans all future oil and gas leases for the Arctic’s Chukchi Sea, as well as the vast majority of the Beaufort Sea. _​
> (Details: Democracy Now!)


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Until of course, someone undoes it.


For those physically or ideologically unable to read the linked story:

_this 1953 law, the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, this law specifically gives presidents the right to withdraw land from use. So, he—any, he or she—any president could withdraw the land from use. It does not give the president the authority to put that land back into use. So Obama has withdrawn the land. In order to reverse it, there would need to be an act of Congress to actually put the land back into use. 

I’m sure that Trump is going to try. The American Petroleum Institute is already trying to undermine this pledge. But it would be a very difficult and unprecedented act to reverse it. No president has ever been able to reverse some land that has been protected in this way. So, while it’s not permanent—you know, there is nothing in U.S. politics that’s permanent—it’s pretty darn close._​


----------



## Macfury

The seeds for the legal challenge have already been sown. Obama's pitiful gesture has no legs. His "legacy" will be mostly gone in six months.


----------



## Dr.G.

"As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them." John F. Kennedy


----------



## SINC

Obama's Shame continues.

Obama just took a parting shot at Israel — and Trump — at the UN

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/23/14071550/united-nations-vote-israeli-settlements-obama-trump


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Obama's Shame continues.
> 
> Obama just took a parting shot at Israel — and Trump — at the UN
> 
> http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/23/14071550/united-nations-vote-israeli-settlements-obama-trump


Obama has been doing his best to booby-trap the transition. Michelle's churlish statements about losing all hope when Trump won were bad enough, but it also reveals that they have no faith in the American people--inside their tiny, cramped thinking is the sad concept that all hope and goodness resides in power concentrated in Washington. Don't let the White House door hit you folks on the way out!


----------



## FeXL

Jes' sayin'. 

Oh, & Bill's Wife will never be President of the United States...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Oh, & Bill's Wife will never be President of the United States...


It would be difficult to estimate how much peace this simple fact has given me. Americans have been shackled by the low expectations of an Obama presidency for far too long. Four years of Hillary would ensure that some kids would have grown into teenhood never fully appreciating the greatness of their nation. Time to end that dour, introspective presidency of non-achievement!


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Obama's Shame continues.
> 
> Obama just took a parting shot at Israel — and Trump — at the UN
> 
> http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/23/14071550/united-nations-vote-israeli-settlements-obama-trump


So.... you support Israel's forced displacement of Palestinians from their lands, to make way for Jewish settlers to create housing developments?

:yikes:

How very Christmassy of you....


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> So.... you support Israel's forced displacement of Palestinians from their lands, to make way for Jewish settlers to create housing developments?
> 
> :yikes:
> 
> How very Christmassy of you....


Obama's shame lies in meddling in international affairs as a lame duck president whose time has all but expired while trying to impose his policies, largely rejected by the American people as a result of the election, on the international stage. Bugger all to do with the issue at hand or your assumption of my views. That responsibility should be in the hands of his successor.

And a Merry Christmas to you too.


----------



## CubaMark

It's unfortunate that one cannot seem to put aside one's hatred for Obama (IMHO irrational at that), and allow that the US abstaining from the vote (not even voting in favour, which morally is the correct position) was something that had to be done. Opposing Jewish settlements on Palestinian land is the correct course of action, regardless of who is in the White House, who is a "lame duck" and who is coming along later to muck it all up.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> It's unfortunate that one cannot seem to put aside one's hatred for Obama (IMHO irrational at that), and allow that the US abstaining from the vote (not even voting in favour, which morally is the correct position) was something that had to be done. Opposing Jewish settlements on Palestinian land is the correct course of action, regardless of who is in the White House, who is a "lame duck" and who is coming along later to muck it all up.


Hatred? Really? Now there is a leftist attempt to skew my views on Obama, but fail miserably. I do not in any way hold any hatred for him in spite of your insinuations. I base my views on the man and his policies and nothing more. 

I believe history will not be kind to Obama and view him as the weakest president since Jimmy Carter, although Carter was much more likeable. 

The division we witnessed between the two factions in the November election was not something new. It had been festering for eight long years and may have had as much to do with the colour of Obama's skin than anything else. 

Combine that with weak and unpopular policies and a sense that Clinton was viewed as more of the same, completed the rejection of Obama and anyone thought to share his views on America. Obama himself sealed that notion into the hearts of Americans when he began a last ditch effort to save him and his kind by campaigning for Clinton. That put the kiss of death on Hillary, the Democrats and Obama's own legacy.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Hatred? Really? Now there is a leftist attempt to skew my views on Obama, but fail miserably. I do not in any way hold any hatred for him in spite of your insinuations. I base my views on the man and his policies and nothing more.


Then I apologize - it certainly has seemed to me that your feelings toward Obama were at that level, which I apparently misinterpreted.



SINC said:


> I believe history will not be kind to Obama and view him as the weakest president since Jimmy Carter, although Carter was much more likeable.


I would have to disagree. And remember - I'm not a fan. To me, Obama is just one more front man protecting and projecting the U.S. empire to the detriment of every other nation on the planet. I suspect, however, that what you and I would criticize of Obama's performance are rather different.



SINC said:


> The division we witnessed between the two factions in the November election was not something new. It had been festering for eight long years and may have had as much to do with the colour of Obama's skin than anything else.


Agreed. The racists, bigots and jackasses could never get it out of their craw that a (half-) Black man was sitting in their White House. A sad statement on the reality of Amerika.

However... as divisive as some claim Obama to have been, as the saying goes, "*you ain't seen nothin' yet!*". The next four years are going to be very, very bad....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap: Good one, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Ya know what's interesting about this "observation"?

In all of those "far right wing nut" websites you accuse me of reading, over the course of the last 8 years I have never, ever, not even once, read anything critical about Obama's race. Nor have I ever spoken to anyone, face to face, who critically brought up his race, despite spending a month or more each year in the US. Not one.

I suspect that all this racial hatred for Obama you claim exists, actually exists in the minds of very few.



CubaMark said:


> The racists, bigots and jackasses could never get it out of their craw that a (half-) Black man was sitting in their White House. A sad statement on the reality of Amerika.


Yeah, it's gonna be tough on the Progs. No more participation trophies. Head down, ass up & put your shoulder to the load. Don't forget your big girl panties...



CubaMark said:


> The next four years are going to be very, very bad....


----------



## Macfury

So great that when he asked voters to elect Hillary to "protect his legacy" they ran screaming!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Ya know what's interesting about this "observation"?
> 
> 
> 
> In all of those "far right wing nut" websites you accuse me of reading, over the course of the last 8 years I have never, ever, not even once, read anything critical about Obama's race. Nor have I ever spoken to anyone, face to face, who critically brought up his race, despite spending a month or more each year in the US. Not one.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that all this racial hatred for Obama you claim exists, actually exists in the minds of very few.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's gonna be tough on the Progs. No more participation trophies. Head down, ass up & put your shoulder to the load. Don't forget your big girl panties...



It's the elephant in the room. They certainly referred to Mrs. Obama as simian. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's the elephant in the room. They certainly referred to Mrs. Obama as simian.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Further to that simian thing....



















https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...in-heels-has-lost-her-job-for-good/?tid=sm_fb


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## FeXL

Whose room? Where? That tiny one in the corner where all the freaks & weirdos hang out?

Let's turn this around for a sec. How about all the things that Trump was called during the election? By not only the freaks & weirdos but the MSM, as well? In the complete absence of any supporting evidence, fjn, you yourself called him a rapist a number of times. That's not even hiding in the shadows!



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's the elephant in the room.


News to me. Have heard her referred to as a wookie. I don't know if that's race based or simply on her facial features.



Freddie_Biff said:


> They certainly referred to Mrs. Obama as simian.


----------



## FeXL

FeXL said:


> Yeah, it's gonna be tough on the Progs. No more participation trophies. Head down, ass up & put your shoulder to the load. Don't forget your big girl panties...


Further to this:


----------



## Macfury

That's great!


----------



## CubaMark

(Doonesbury)


----------



## eMacMan

Once you understand that ISIS is a collection of mercenaries, recruited, trained and funded by the US and its Saudi and Turkish proxies, defeating them becomes very easy. Cut off the funding and the supply of American made weapons. 

Yep just that easy. As to whether the combover is willing to step on the fiscal toes of American arms makers and dealers is an entirely different question. We will know the answer soon enough.



CubaMark said:


> (Doonesbury)


----------



## Macfury

That Doonesbury writer is such an idiot. Why compare Newt Gincgrich's comments to those of Trump? Trudeau wouldn't normally give Gingrich's statements the time of day. Also, Trump has corrected Gingrich several times since the election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Whose room? Where? That tiny one in the corner where all the freaks & weirdos hang out?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's turn this around for a sec. How about all the things that Trump was called during the election? By not only the freaks & weirdos but the MSM, as well? In the complete absence of any supporting evidence, fjn, you yourself called him a rapist a number of times. That's not even hiding in the shadows!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> News to me. Have heard her referred to as a wookie. I don't know if that's race based or simply on her facial features.



So you have absolutely no recollection of the "ape in heels" comment. 


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----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That Doonesbury writer is such an idiot.


...says the guy who rails against _ad hom_ arguments.... :lmao:



Macfury said:


> Why compare Newt Gincgrich's comments to those of Trump?


Ummm..... maybe because he's one of Trump's key advisors? Part of the Transition Team? 



Macfury said:


> Trudeau wouldn't normally give Gingrich's statements the time of day. Also, Trump has corrected Gingrich several times since the election.


...What does Trudeau have to do with any of this?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ...says the guy who rails against _ad hom_ arguments.... :lmao:


IT's npt an ad hom if the guy expressing the opinion is an idiot.



CubaMark said:


> Ummm..... maybe because he's one of Trump's key advisors? Part of the Transition Team?


He's an advisor who has misspoken several times. He does not speak for Trump.



CubaMark said:


> ...What does Trudeau have to do with any of this?


Really, CM? Think a little more carefully...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Really, CM? Think a little more carefully...


----------



## Macfury

Garry Trudeau is the author of Doonesbury.


----------



## CubaMark

_mea culpa_, MF. I knew that and my brain refused to remember.

Allow me to express myself appropriately:


----------



## Dr.G.

Just received my copy of "Trumplethinskin", an adult fairy tale for 2016, from Amazon.ca

In this version, the imp (aka Donald Trump) extracts from Hillary Clinton a promise -- that he will do everything in his power to lose the election, but if she fails to win the electoral college vote, he will take the presidency as his own. The king (Pres. Obama) keeps his promise to help make Hillary Clinton the next president. But when the election is held, the imp (Donald Trump) wins the election. The imp returns to claim his payment: "Now give me what you promised." Pres. Obama offers him all the wealth in Fort Knox, but the imp has no interest in her riches. He finally consents to give up his claim to the presidency if Hillary Clinton can guess his name within three days. Her many guesses fail, but before the final night, she wanders into the woods searching for him and comes across his remote mountain "cottage" and watches, unseen, as he hops about his fire and sings. In his song's lyrics, "tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, I'll go to the king's house, nobody knows my name, I'm called 'Trumplethinskin'", he reveals his name.

Sadly, Hillary Clinton sends out this information about Trumplethinskin to the world via email. The email is intercepted by Putin (who once played the wolf in "Peter and the Wolf"), and the email now reads "All hail the once and future king of America -- The Donald". It is signed Hillary Clinton. 

So ends the fairy tale ............ so begins our potential nightmare. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

And then they realized Trump was a beautiful Swan... then how the reindeer loved him!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And then they realized Trump was a beautiful Swan... then how the reindeer loved him!


Wrong fairy tale, mon ami. The swan was Bernie Sanders ............... and the reindeer loved his accent. 

The Donald shall be exposed for wearing no clothes.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Wrong fairy tale, mon ami. The swan was Bernie Sanders ............... and the reindeer loved his accent.


Bernie couldn't even defend himself against the machinations of the DNC--he would have wilted against the requirements of the presidency.



Dr.G. said:


> The Donald shall be exposed for wearing no clothes.


Rather this than Hillary wearing no clothes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Bernie couldn't even defend himself against the machinations of the DNC--he would have wilted against the requirements of the presidency.
> 
> 
> Rather this than Hillary wearing no clothes.


Nope, wrong again. Bernie would have soared as president. Hillary would have been an OK to good president. 

We shall never know what might have been with either Bernie or Hillary. As for Trump ................... se shall see. Paix, mon ami. Here's wishing you and your family a good new year.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump writing own 'short' inaugural speech - CNNPolitics.com

This should prove interesting. 

"Ask not what your country can do for you ........ ask what you can do for me."

"January 20th, a date that will live in infamy."

"So first of all let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is me."

We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Just received my copy of "Trumplethinskin", an adult fairy tale for 2016, from Amazon.ca
> 
> 
> 
> In this version, the imp (aka Donald Trump) extracts from Hillary Clinton a promise -- that he will do everything in his power to lose the election, but if she fails to win the electoral college vote, he will take the presidency as his own. The king (Pres. Obama) keeps his promise to help make Hillary Clinton the next president. But when the election is held, the imp (Donald Trump) wins the election. The imp returns to claim his payment: "Now give me what you promised." Pres. Obama offers him all the wealth in Fort Knox, but the imp has no interest in her riches. He finally consents to give up his claim to the presidency if Hillary Clinton can guess his name within three days. Her many guesses fail, but before the final night, she wanders into the woods searching for him and comes across his remote mountain "cottage" and watches, unseen, as he hops about his fire and sings. In his song's lyrics, "tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, I'll go to the king's house, nobody knows my name, I'm called 'Trumplethinskin'", he reveals his name.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, Hillary Clinton sends out this information about Trumplethinskin to the world via email. The email is intercepted by Putin (who once played the wolf in "Peter and the Wolf"), and the email now reads "All hail the once and future king of America -- The Donald". It is signed Hillary Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> So ends the fairy tale ............ so begins our potential nightmare. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.



Awesome! Clap clap clap!


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Awesome! Clap clap clap!


Lots more awesome to come...!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Bernie couldn't even defend himself against the machinations of the DNC--he would have wilted against the requirements of the presidency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather this than Hillary wearing no clothes.



Gonna to have to respectfully disagree with you there, buddy. 




















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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump writing own 'short' inaugural speech - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> This should prove interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> "Ask not what your country can do for you ........ ask what you can do for me."
> 
> 
> 
> "January 20th, a date that will live in infamy."
> 
> 
> 
> "So first of all let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is me."
> 
> 
> 
> We shall see.



One thing we can all agree on: there has never been a less qualified man for the job of POTUS. It's like having the local entrepreneur show up to perform your heart surgery. 


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## FeXL

So what's the thrust here? Barry was a great heart surgeon? 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

No wonder the economy & so many jobs died under his stewardship...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's like having the local entrepreneur show up to perform your heart surgery.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Gonna to have to respectfully disagree with you there, buddy.


Let's see--a photo of an old lady in a swimsuit and a statue of an old guy. Would rather see the naked statue than Hillary naked.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So what's the thrust here? Barry was a great heart surgeon?
> 
> 
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder the economy & so many jobs died under his stewardship...



It is painful and sad to have to explain a metaphor, but try to keep up. Barry was a senator before becoming POTUS. So was Bill. And Hillary. Donald has no government experience. Zero. Nada. None. He is simply not qualified for the job. He hasn't even read the Constitution he will be swearing to uphold. There has never been a less qualified candidate for POTUS. 


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Let's see--a photo of an old lady in a swimsuit and a statue of an old guy. Would rather see the naked statue than Hillary naked.



I'll bet you would. 


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----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'll bet you would.


Did that Hillary swimsut pinup turn your crank, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Did that Hillary swimsut pinup turn your crank, Freddie?



Moreso than the naked Trump one. But hey, whatever floats your boat, buddy. 


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## screature

While all of this is just fun and games, there is serious legislative business coming very soon.

The position that the US takes on various international political matters is very significant indeed... through the ripple effect it affects the whole world.

I know it is the holiday season and people just want to "*partay*". 

Many of us thought 2016 was a bad year and we would be happy to see the tail end of it, but quite frankly I am more worried about what 2017 will bring.

You can all go back to your fun and games now, this post was just meant as a reality check.

IMO there is yet a lot of bad chite coming down the pipe in the year ahead. Obviously I could be wrong but that is my forecast.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Awesome! Clap clap clap!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Lots more awesome to come...!


True. In these final days of the Obama administration he shall leave on a high note. Then .................. we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> One thing we can all agree on: there has never been a less qualified man for the job of POTUS. It's like having the local entrepreneur show up to perform your heart surgery.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly, all too true, Frank. He shall make the likes of Pres. Warren G. Harding look good.


----------



## Macfury

I was sorry to see a lot of people die in 2016. But Trump was elected and Hillary was defeated and that balances things out.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Moreso than the naked Trump one. But hey, whatever floats your boat, buddy.


I voted for neither the statue or the Hillary photo, but if you like the Hillary pin-up, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well, this looks significant. 










http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/russia-hacking-sanctions-diplomats-expelled-1.3915681


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, this looks significant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama slaps sanctions on Russia over election hacking, expels 35 diplomats - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Important, yes ............ but it might be overturned in 22 days by then Pres. Trump. This may please Putin, but many Republican members of Congress are publically coming out to say that there needs to be even stiffer sanctions against Russia, and that Trump cannot ignore the vast array of information gathered by the US intelligence agencies re this matter. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Important, yes ............ but it might be overturned in 22 days by then Pres. Trump. This may please Putin, but many Republican members of Congress are publically coming out to say that there needs to be even stiffer sanctions against Russia, and that Trump cannot ignore the vast array of information gathered by the US intelligence agencies re this matter. We shall see.



It certainly calls Trump's intelligence and loyalty into question, on both sides of the political fence. 


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## Macfury

Obama is being a complete buffoon. He has no proof of Russian hacking. The Democrats ran a crap candidate and ran on Obama's terrible legacy. This is his way of tying to deflect from his failure. 

He's also angry that his Syrian strategy blew up on him, and now a peace treaty is being arranged by Russia without any input from the US. A small man ranting as he leaves office. Just shameful.


----------



## FeXL

Then use a better metaphor.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It is painful and sad to have to explain a metaphor


Yeah, and look at the bang up job the first two did! As for the third, look what all that senatorial & SoS experience did. It taught her to hone her lying, cheating, thieving & stealing. Perfect qualifications for a politician. 

BTW, have you heard she'll never be POTUS? Refreshing, ain't it. Like a spring breeze...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Barry was a senator before becoming POTUS. So was Bill. And Hillary.


How is that bad? The problem with politicians is simply that they're politicians.

Watch Donald go. The economy is already picking up steam, as evidenced by the markets. Solid endorsement over Barry & he's still hasn't been sworn in.

With the US economy in the state it is, the last thing they need is another idiot spendthrift politician. A businessman will make short shrift of the problem. Trump is perfect for the current conditions, warts & all.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Donald has no government experience. Zero. Nada. None. He is simply not qualified for the job.


And you know this how?



Freddie_Biff said:


> He hasn't even read the Constitution he will be swearing to uphold.


You're not one of these guys who figgers you need a university degree to do a good job, are you? 

'Sides, it's patently obvious that all the qualifications in the world do not necessarily make one a good POTUS. <cough>Barry<cough>Bill<cough>Jimmy<cough>, among others.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There has never been a less qualified candidate for POTUS.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> BTW, have you heard she'll never be POTUS? Refreshing, ain't it. Like a spring breeze...


Just keep repeating to yourself, Madame President, Madame President...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just keep repeating to yourself, Madame President, Madame President...















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----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I was sorry to see a lot of people die in 2016. But Trump was elected and Hillary was defeated and that balances things out.


That is just pure nonsense and a reflection of how much you valued those who died this year. Disgraceful even for the ultra partisans like you MF.

Almost anyone who died this year was more notable and significant than the Donald. The Donald will go down in history as being the biggest electoral mistake in US history... Time will tell but that is my prediction.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It certainly calls Trump's intelligence and loyalty into question, on both sides of the political fence.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I consider Trump's election tremendous good news. It has cheered me up immeasurably while I mourn the passing of some great talents. 



screature said:


> That is just pure nonsense and a reflection of how much you valued those who died this year. Disgraceful even for the ultra partisans like you MF.
> 
> Almost anyone who died this year was more notable and significant than the Donald. The Donald will go down in history as being the biggest electoral mistake in US history... Time will tell but that is my prediction.


----------



## SINC

Good grief, Obama is certainly embarrassing himself and his office on the way out.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, this looks significant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moscow vows retaliation over sanctions by Obama administration 'losers' - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the hacking is true, what did the hacking do? Expose the bad things Hillary did not want exposed? Or are they saying the voting numbers are not accurate and they hacked that? Neither are good, but if it is just exposing Hillary, well I don't care as much as the people still voted how they wanted. If they hacked the votes themselves then I would say it is the start of something very serious between the US and Russia and a new vote should take place.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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----------



## SINC

Only people who do not understand how the US electoral system works believe or post that kind of crap.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The Evangelicals have some 'splaining to do. 



> Commentary: What have we done?
> 
> By Robin Meyers | November 16, 2016
> 
> Oklahoma was the first state west of the Mississippi to be called for Donald Trump, and what prouder moment could there be for followers of Jesus? If Hollywood designed the perfect candidate to represent the anti-Christ for evangelicals, he would be thrice married, twice divorced, a builder of casinos, a sexual predator (unless the women are ugly), a liar and a man so in love with himself that his fondest wish is to die in his own arms.
> 
> In the Jesus spirit of the open table and unbridled compassion for the last and the least, deeply religious Oklahomans joined the majority of Americans in electing a man who mocked a disabled reporter; insulted women for menstruating; invited a foreign power to interfere in our elections; bragged about paying no taxes after losing other people’s money; refused to release his tax returns (which would have revealed how little money he gives to charity); and insulted Mexican immigrants, John McCain and Carly Fiorina — the latter for having a face no one would vote for.
> 
> He blamed Bush for 9/11, made lewd remarks about his own daughter and regularly encouraged violence at his political rallies. If the Middle-Eastern Jesus himself came knocking, Trump would deport him. Who could blame the Prince of Peace for saying, “With friends like this, who needs enemies?”


http://okgazette.com/2016/11/16/commentary-what-have-we-done/


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----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Evangelicals have some 'splaining to do.


Robin Meyers has some research to do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Robin Meyers has some research to do.



You figure? Everything he describes is directly from Trump's words and actions. Surely you can provide a better counter-argument than this. 


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----------



## FeXL

Pot, kettle...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Surely you can provide a better counter-argument than this.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You figure? Everything he describes is directly from Trump's words and actions. Surely you can provide a better counter-argument than this.


Meyers doesn't even make a real argument.

First, most of Meyers' accusations aren't accurate. Second, Meyers doesn't understand why evangelicals voted for Trump. For example, there's not a single mention of the Democrat party e-mail that said that American religious beliefs needed to change to suit the philosophy of the Democrat party.

Laughed when I saw this:



> Robin Meyers is....a professor of social justice in the Philosophy Department at Oklahoma City University.


----------



## Macfury

Sad to see how Obama's pissy petulance has made Vladimir Putin the adult in the room:



> "We will not expel anyone; we refuse to sink to 'kitchen' diplomacy."


Vladimir Putin says he WON'T expel US diplomats in revenge for hacking sanctions | Daily Mail Online


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I consider Trump's election tremendous good news. It has cheered me up immeasurably while I mourn the passing of some great talents.


You said:



Macfury said:


> I was sorry to see a lot of people die in 2016. But Trump was elected and Hillary was defeated and that balances things out.


So in effect all those peoples deaths were on the "balance" equivalent to the electoral victory of the Donald.

Back track all you like but that is the meaning of what you said, extremely cynical, hard headed and cold hearted.


----------



## Macfury

Famous people die every year and that does not prevent me from feeling good and optimistic about the US election. Is there some rule that says that the deaths of famous people this year should overshadow my optimism and positive feelings about 2016?



screature said:


> You said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in effect all those peoples deaths were on the "balance" equivalent to the electoral victory of the Donald.
> 
> Back track all you like but that is the meaning of what you said, extremely cynical, hard headed and cold hearted.


----------



## SINC

Take that, Obama. No childish response to a childish move.

*Putin: Russia will not expel anyone in response to US sanctions*

https://www.rt.com/news/372256-putin-diplomats-expulsion-rejects/


----------



## CubaMark

(Doonesbury)


----------



## Macfury

Obama attends about 43% of daily briefs--far fewer than 50%.

http://www.g-a-i.org/u/2014/09/GAI-Report-PDB-Update-9.29.2014.pdf


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Obama attends about 43% of daily briefs--far fewer than 50%.
> 
> http://www.g-a-i.org/u/2014/09/GAI-Report-PDB-Update-9.29.2014.pdf


This makes sense to me. The world doesn't turn on a dime every day. When there are matters of importance that have changed his staff will alert him to attend the meeting, that is what they are there for, but unless there is nothing significantly new it is just a waste of his time when there are much bigger fish to fry.

So I call this a "red herring" (get the pun, eh?). It is just another false method of the Obama haters to keep hating him. Just politics as usual especially for Trump supporters.

The politics of division, cripes even those of us North of the border should be tired of watching it unfold in the US. I can't imagine the constant frustration of American voters on both sides. The US needs to have something like a multi-party system as we have in Canada to begin to put an end to this constant deadlock and division.

The civil war continues in the US, there are just no longer bullets, bombs and rockets involved... at least that is something I guess. But aside from that it is the same as it ever was.


----------



## Macfury

I have no idea how many times a president should attend a briefing. Just pointing out that CubaMark is being disingenuous in his comparisons. The Obama numbers are based on his published White House schedule.

Third parties have risen and fallen in the US but have never managed to attract a significant number of voters. It isn't as though they haven't been available to them. Mostly they're just spoilers--Ross Perot cost Bush I the election.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....CubaMark is being disingenuous in his comparisons....


Not true. That implies intentionally being misleading, which I am not. I have no idea what is the historical record of Presidents attending the daily briefings and how Obama fits into that record. My point is simply to show Trump continually talking out of his ass.


----------



## Macfury

You said that Trump's figures on Obama's attendance at briefings were "not true."



CubaMark said:


> Not true. That implies intentionally being misleading, which I am not. I have no idea what is the historical record of Presidents attending the daily briefings and how Obama fits into that record. My point is simply to show Trump continually talking out of his ass.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> This makes sense to me. The world doesn't turn on a dime every day. When there are matters of importance that have changed his staff will alert him to attend the meeting, that is what they are there for, but unless there is nothing significantly new it is just a waste of his time when there are much bigger fish to fry.
> 
> 
> 
> So I call this a "red herring" (get the pun, eh?). It is just another false method of the Obama haters to keep hating him. Just politics as usual especially for Trump supporters.
> 
> 
> 
> The politics of division, cripes even those of us North of the border should be tired of watching it unfold in the US. I can't imagine the constant frustration of American voters on both sides. The US needs to have something like a multi-party system as we have in Canada to begin to put an end to this constant deadlock and division.
> 
> 
> 
> The civil war continues in the US, there are just no longer bullets, bombs and rockets involved... at least that is something I guess. But aside from that it is the same as it ever was.



The difference is that Obama spends from about 8:00 until about 1:00 in the morning each night reading and responding to the day's proceedings in his study. Trump by contrast appears not to be capable of reading or just cannot afford a second pair of reading glasses. 

https://youtu.be/WfaXILOSEf0


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----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I have no idea how many times a president should attend a briefing. Just pointing out that CubaMark is being disingenuous in his comparisons. The Obama numbers are based on his published White House schedule.
> 
> *Third parties have risen and fallen in the US but have never managed to attract a significant number of voters. *It isn't as though they haven't been available to them. Mostly they're just spoilers--Ross Perot cost Bush I the election.


No there has not been, not of any significance... Cripes you think the Tea Party or the KKK could organize themselves enough to create a real third Party, I guess they would just rather vote for the GOP and just be lazy about it.  

There have been independents running for the presidency. There has never been in our lifetime a significant third party option in the US. Period. Case closed.

I am so glad I am a Canadian and live in this great country where we have a poster boy as PM for all that is supposed to be good and wonderful and he will take us to the promised land of prosperity for all the middle class... but what about the poor or the downtrodden, what about them? They really don't count because in general they do not vote. Same as it ever was no matter the Libs or the Cons.

But at least we have "viable" options and 4 federal parties (at least), the same cannot be or ever could be said for the US.


----------



## Macfury

There's been an option--just no support!



screature said:


> No there has not been, not of any significance... Cripes you think the Tea Party or the KKK could organize themselves enough to create a real third Party, I guess they would just rather vote for the GOP and just be lazy about it.
> 
> There have been independents running for the presidency. There has never been in our lifetime a significant third party option in the US. Period. Case closed.
> 
> I am so glad I am a Canadian and live in this great country where we have a poster boy as PM for all that is supposed to be good and wonderful and he will take us to the promised land of prosperity for all the middle class... but what about the poor or the downtrodden, what about them? They really don't count because in general they do not vote. Same as it ever was no matter the Libs or the Cons.
> 
> But at least we have "viable" options and 4 federal parties (at least), the same cannot be or ever could be said for the US.


----------



## Dr.G.

"U.S. president-elect Donald Trump has issued an unusual New Year's message for his Twitter followers.

"Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly," he said in a tweet Saturday morning.

Trump added, "they just don't know what to do," ending his message with the word, "Love!" "

How kind of him. Putin is sending Trump a doxie to help protect him from the truth.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "U.S. president-elect Donald Trump has issued an unusual New Year's message for his Twitter followers.
> 
> 
> 
> "Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly," he said in a tweet Saturday morning.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump added, "they just don't know what to do," ending his message with the word, "Love!" "
> 
> 
> 
> How kind of him. Putin is sending Trump a doxie to help protect him from the truth.



Well, at least he admits he has enemies. How long until he realizes his biggest enemy is himself? 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, at least he admits he has enemies. How long until he realizes his biggest enemy is himself?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:

He has also said that his inauguration has to be a gun-free zone ......... unlike schools and hospitals and universities if he gets his way.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> He has also said that his inauguration has to be a gun-free zone ......... unlike schools and hospitals and universities if he gets his way.



It will also be a decent musician free zone at this rate. Nobody wants to play for it, and the Rockettes will only perform because they'll be fired if they don't. 


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It will also be a decent musician free zone at this rate. Nobody wants to play for it, and the Rockettes will only perform because they'll be fired if they don't.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



Maybe he can still get Ted Nugent. Maybe Scott Baio can do some stand up comedy. 


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## Macfury

Charles in charge!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Charles in charge!




He ain't no Ricky Gervais, he ain't nothing Seth McFarlane, he ain't no Denis Leary either. But he'll have to do.


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## Macfury

It's amazing how performers are generally so clueless about politics!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's amazing how performers are generally so clueless about politics!



Au contraire, amigo. If they knew less, they might be conned into endorsing the man. All the A-listers see right trough him. He's a Con man.


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## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's amazing how performers are generally so clueless about politics!


It's amazing how some people think that the presence of an A-list performer somehow "blesses" the event. If it was up to me, I'd get a few local musicians to come perform for me & screw the A-listers...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> It's amazing how some people think that the presence of an A-list performer somehow "blesses" the event. If it was up to me, I'd get a few local musicians to come perform for me & screw the A-listers...



Yup, sour grapes. At this point, Trump's people are scrambling to have ANY performers play for his inauguration. 


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## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Here's Mr. Complete Sentences:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao: Very true.


----------



## FeXL

FFS, he won!!! Bill's Wife will _never_ be POTUS!!!

Trump has all but told the MSM to bugger off because they all attacked him during the campaign. He doesn't need them. Same with Hollyweird. Most actors are left-leaning & did not support him. He doesn't need them! Same with musicians. Most are left-leaning. Mainstreamers don't want to play for him? Fine! Get some unknown, right-leaning musicians looking for a break & put them on a national stage. Imagine the exposure. Win/win!

You really have no clew how this works, do you? You'd never make it as organizer of a campaign.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, sour grapes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FFS, he won!!! Bill's Wife will _never_ be POTUS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Trump has all but told the MSM to bugger off because they all attacked him during the campaign. He doesn't need them. Same with Hollyweird. Most actors are left-leaning & did not support him. He doesn't need them! Same with musicians. Most are left-leaning. Mainstreamers don't want to play for him? Fine! Get some unknown, right-leaning musicians looking for a break & put them on a national stage. Imagine the exposure. Win/win!
> 
> 
> 
> You really have no clew how this works, do you? You'd never make it as organizer of a campaign.



So essentially what you are saying is that Trump is making it quite clear that he does NOT represent ALL Americans. Talk about thin-skinned. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> So essentially what you are saying is that Trump is making it quite clear that he does NOT represent ALL Americans. Talk about thin-skinned.


If lefty voters behave like morons, you can't enact moronic policies to keep them happy. Representation can only go so far.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If lefty voters behave like morons, you can't enact moronic policies to keep them happy. Representation can only go so far.



Nope. The President is there to represent ALL citizens, not just the ones who voted for him. Or her. Every President prior to Trump acknowledges this. 


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## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry, had to stop for a breath...)

HA!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. The President is there to represent ALL citizens, not just the ones who voted for him. Or her. Every President prior to Trump acknowledges this.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> (sorry, had to stop for a breath...)
> 
> 
> 
> HA!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Wow. Your most convincing argument yet. My lovely wife and charming kids and all the delightful neighbors up and down the street think you're an idiot and wonder why I waste my time with you. I tell them it's not nice to make fun of people with personal troubles.


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## FeXL

Why am I not surprised? A Prog is known by the company he keeps...



Freddie_Biff said:


> My lovely wife and charming kids and all the delightful neighbors up and down the street think you're an idiot and wonder why I waste my time with you.


----------



## SINC

A guy who lives here in town named Perry Kincaid has some interesting observations in a recent post on FB about Trump. 

You can check out his Facebook page here:

https://www.facebook.com/perry.kinkaide/about?lst=100004834841644:673520370:1483296896

My earlier views that Trump will "reset" the world's relationship with Putin clearly provoked a few. So let me elaborate:
1. It can't get much worse than what has transpired - turning the other cheek, ignoring red lines, and pandering to special interests has eroded the US role as an influential and trustworthy negotiator.
2. Global diplomacy is about POWER and the balance has shifted, Trump has the style and mandate to take a new tact.
3. Trump is above all a savvy negotiator with "personal" connections - flexibility, who can by-pass layers of diplomatic "contraints". But to do so, he must shake-up Washington - centralize the Executive, and establish a new regime.
4. The US is energy independent, diversified, and economically sound. Russia is dependent on the price of oil and depressed ... snd low prices, collapse of the USSR and sanctions have poked the bear, stiring nationalism.
5. Europe is a passive, non-player. Climate change has been neutralized - politically. Trump does not have to pander to special interests that boxed in his predecessors.
6. Trump has all the cards he needs having won: govenourships, the Senate, the House, the Executive, the College. The only glitch was California with soft lifestyle interests and the NE intellectual left.
7. "Containment" ala Keenan and "Democracy" ala Regan worked ... but that was then and this is now. The US after Regan lost the opportunity to support Russia in recovery, and continued to poke the bear when it was down. Russia hasn't recovered, but does remember and it's leadership is cockey with a popular mandate - nationalism, to go global.
8. Trump has many trading cards to negotiate with China and Russia, for re-gaining stature and re-establishing the important role of the US in balancing power interests.
9. The Middle East will be probably remain sticky until oil runs out, Sunnis and ****tes embrace, allowing the Olympics ato be held in Jeruseleum.
10. Containment and sanctions, etc. have served to further embolden the bear and it's allies. So ... a fresh look is essential, but "know the bear". From a position of strength - negotiate a detente on several fronts.
11. Note. $80 oil will make a huge difference in restoring a civil dialogue.
12. Note also. Dare to revisit and evaluate the role of the UN in world affairs. What values would you use in such an evaluation? Your conclusion?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/sin...or-trump-i-could-never-throw-roses-to-hitler/


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## Macfury

You actually discuss EhMac with your neighbours? You, Freddie, need to develop more diverse interests.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wow. Your most convincing argument yet. My lovely wife and charming kids and all the delightful neighbors up and down the street think you're an idiot and wonder why I waste my time with you. I tell them it's not nice to make fun of people with personal troubles.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> [Singer quits Mormon Tabernacle Choir rather than sing for Trump: ‘I could never throw roses to Hitler'


Hope there's another Mormon choir in town who will employ her!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. The President is there to represent ALL citizens, not just the ones who voted for him. Or her. Every President prior to Trump acknowledges this.


Obama paid lip service to the idea of being everybody's president, but for those who did not vote for him, it was like living under a repressive regime where all policy played to the Dem voter base.

As Obama said about his Republican non-supporters:


> They can ride with us if they want, but they got to get in the back seat.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You actually discuss EhMac with your neighbours? You, Freddie, need to develop more diverse interests.



Sarcasm is wasted on the literal-minded it seems.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hope there's another Mormon choir in town who will employ her!



I believe the point is that her principles override her need to be part of an organization that apparently has none. 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe the point is that her principles override her need to be part of an organization that apparently has none.


The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is fine-it's the deranged idea that Trump is Hitler that needs adjustment.


----------



## FeXL

Gay wedding cakes!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe the point is that her principles override her need to be part of an organization that apparently has none.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> There's been an option--just no support!




Quote:



Originally Posted by screature View Post



> No there has not been, not of any significance... Cripes you think the Tea Party or the KKK could organize themselves enough to create a real third Party, I guess they would just rather vote for the GOP and just be lazy about it.
> 
> There have been independents running for the presidency. There has never been in our lifetime a significant third party option in the US. Period. Case closed.
> 
> I am so glad I am a Canadian and live in this great country where we have a poster boy as PM for all that is supposed to be good and wonderful and he will take us to the promised land of prosperity for all the middle class... but what about the poor or the downtrodden, what about them? They really don't count because in general they do not vote. Same as it ever was no matter the Libs or the Cons.
> 
> But at least we have "viable" options and 4 federal parties (at least), the same cannot be or ever could be said for the US.


Cripes like I said... no significant support... remember the Rhino Party??? Try and keep it real.


----------



## Dr.G.

US officials: Russian 'digital fingerprints' all over election hacks - CNNPolitics.com

Trump's Russia claims drive this week in politics - CNNPolitics.com

Hopefully, The Donald will be able to reveal all and we shall all be friends, once again, with Putin.


----------



## Macfury

You have to ask yourself whether Americans prefer the two-party system, are afraid to throw away their vote on a third party that can't win a seat, or simply don't like the choices available in third parties. Ross Perot managed 19% of the vote as an independent--but received zero electoral votes. As the Reform Party candidate his support was cut in half.

A few people running as Independents have won seats in the Senate and House, but none with party affiliation since the 1970s, I think.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

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## SINC

^

Bottom line, he IS THE NEW PRESIDENT. Suck it up people.


----------



## Macfury

But you all believed Obama was going to heal the planet and stop the "rise of the seas."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> ^
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line, he IS THE NEW PRESIDENT. Suck it up people.



You mean the way you've sucked it up with respect to our Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau? Okay.


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean the way you've sucked it up with respect to our Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau? Okay.


Yep, there is nothing I can do about that idiot until I can vote against him in 2019.

Difference 'tween you and I is that you can't vote against Trump in four more years or ever.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Better to love everyone than to love no one. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Yep, there is nothing I can do about that idiot until I can vote against him in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Difference 'tween you and I is that you can't vote against Trump in four more years or ever.



Tell you what: as soon as you stop criticizing Trudeau and Notley, I'll stop criticizing Trump. As you say, suck it up, buttercup. They're in now, and there's nothing you can do about it. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Better to love everyone than to love no one. Paix, mon ami.



I respectfully must disagree with that sentiment mon ami. You don't have to love someone who is deliberately cruel or dangerous. You may not have to hate them, but you certainly don't have to love them. 


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## screature

Macfury said:


> You have to ask yourself whether Americans prefer the two-party system, are afraid to throw away their vote on a third party that can't win a seat, or simply don't like the choices available in third parties. Ross Perot managed 19% of the vote as an independent--but received zero electoral votes. As the Reform Party candidate his support was cut in half.
> 
> A few people running as Independents have won seats in the Senate and House, but none with party affiliation since the 1970s, I think.


It seems Canadians are much more politically advanced than the US based on your comments.

At one point we had 5 parties all with significant support and why you may ask...? Because unlike the US we are not still effectively in a state of civil war.

I know how much you admire the US and wanted to emigrate there at one time but then had a change of heart. 

Just so you know politics is not just some game as you and many others are somehow prone to think. It is real world life and blood stuff.

Your statements come across as if they were written by some arm chair coach writing about which team is more likely to win in whatever sport that you chose... It is not.

That is problem with politics and many politicians these days and probably since forever, they see it as a GAME to be won or lost. Your posts seem to indicate that you feel the same way... I also did for a number of years but I have been in political "detox" for a while and I now see things differently.

If you think for one instant that the Donald is not viewing his race to the presidency and his being the President as effectively a game to be won or lost (like The Apprentice) I think you are seriously misguided, and have lost touch with reality as he and much of the US has. 

But sadly this is the same view in many other parts of the world, so you are not alone, just wrong like the rest who feel that way.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Good post, Screature. A Zero Sum game, to be specific. For one side to win, the other must lose. This helps explain why Trump does not feel he has a responsibility to serve ALL Americans. In fact, he seems to see it more as a job where he should be served, like an Emperor, and he can smote his enemies with a Tweet. 










Nope, no narcissism there. 


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----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good post, Screature. A Zero Sum* game,* to be specific. For one side to win, the other must lose. This helps explain why Trump does not feel he has a responsibility to serve ALL Americans. In fact, he seems to see it more as a job where he should be served, like an Emperor, and he can smote his enemies with a Tweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, no narcissism there.


Just to be more specific... It in NOT a game, people live better or worse, or die sooner or later based on politics. It is no game of any kind and despite the politicians, the media and the people who portray it as such, it is not.

So I would just like to say that I think your statement would be more accurate and correct if you said something like "It is a zero sum situation/proposition" or something like that. 

Sorry I think this is one subject where semantics really matter because the semantics have far reaching consequences.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Just to be more specific... It in NOT a game, people live better or worse, or die sooner or later based on politics. It is no game of any kind and despite the politicians, the media and the people who portray it as such, it is not.
> 
> 
> 
> So I would just like to say that I think your statement would be more accurate and correct if you said something like "It is a zero sum situation/proposition" or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I think this is one subject where semantics really matter because the semantics have far reaching consequences.



Fair enough. I don't see government as a zero sum game myself, but it sure seems like Donald Trump does. We shall see, of course, but I have a feeling he's not interested in seeing both the US and Canada succeed when it comes to the terms of NAFTA, among other agreements we currently have. In his world there are winners and losers, and Canada winning something at the expense of the US would not be acceptable. I believe we in Canada have much to lose while he is in charge. 


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----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Better to love everyone than to love no one. Paix, mon ami.





Freddie_Biff said:


> I respectfully must disagree with that sentiment mon ami. You don't have to love someone who is deliberately cruel or dangerous. You may not have to hate them, but you certainly don't have to love them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think that Dr. G. was being literal Biff. I could be wrong but if I am then I don't know where Dr .G. is coming from and if that is the case maybe he could explain:










But that said, I think I know what he is trying to say... But as always I could be wrong.

P.S. I just saw what I wrote and looked at my finished post (so I thought) under the picture of Trump...

All I can say is Wow... Just f**king Wow, to the US citizens who voted for him and Canadians who think that this arsewhole will bring any good to the world.

Lest we forget he is a megalomaniac, a narcissist, a racist, a misogynist, and a man who runs a female beauty show for his pleasure and profit.

F**K!!!... and Mf and others want this Buffoon to be the President of the US???

Really.....? Arrgh!!


----------



## Macfury

I don't see it as a game. I have hated Obama's 8 years in office as he worked to destroy what makes the US unique and vibrant. Trump's victory was necessary to halt the continued degradation of the country under Clinton.



screature said:


> It seems Canadians are much more politically advanced than the US based on your comments.
> 
> At one point we had 5 parties all with significant support and why you may ask...? Because unlike the US we are not still effectively in a state of civil war.
> 
> I know how much you admire the US and wanted to emigrate there at one time but then had a change of heart.
> 
> Just so you know politics is not just some game as you and many others are somehow prone to think. It is real world life and blood stuff.
> 
> Your statements come across as if they were written by some arm chair coach writing about which team is more likely to win in whatever sport that you chose... It is not.
> 
> That is problem with politics and many politicians these days and probably since forever, they see it as a GAME to be won or lost. Your posts seem to indicate that you feel the same way... I also did for a number of years but I have been in political "detox" for a while and I now see things differently.
> 
> If you think for one instant that the Donald is not viewing his race to the presidency and his being the President as effectively a game to be won or lost (like The Apprentice) I think you are seriously misguided, and have lost touch with reality as he and much of the US has.
> 
> But sadly this is the same view in many other parts of the world, so you are not alone, just wrong like the rest who feel that way.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *I don't see it as a game.* I *have hated Obama's 8 years in office as he worked to destroy what makes the US unique and vibrant.* Trump's victory was necessary to halt the continued degradation of the country under Clinton.



That is not the way you present yourself almost all of the time here. People just need to read your past posts. I have been here a long time and read most of them them and I am of the opinion that you do see it as a game, at least based on your past posts. You may feel differently in your private life, but based on your posts here IMO you see it as a *game* to be won or lost.

Wow!... Hate!... Destroy! Those are some pretty strong words and I think that says a lot more about you than it does about Obama. But it is your opinion and you have the right to have one in this country and thus far in the US... 

Let us just see if the citizens of the US under the Donald still have the same right. I suspect depending on who you are, based on ethnicity, race, religion, immigrant or colour (Canadian spelling while it still matters) in the US the value of your voice will be ranked according to the above characteristics, for good or bad.

Going back to a previous post that I mentioned in the "Progressive" thread, Trump is neither status quo or progressive... His politics are regressive and that is why almost all the rest of the world has reason to be concerned... Just like Putin... his politics are regressive as well... no wonder they are almost best buds.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> I don't think that Dr. G. was being literal Biff. I could be wrong but if I am then I don't know where Dr .G. is coming from and if that is the case maybe he could explain:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that said, I think I know what he is trying to say... But as always I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I just saw what I wrote and looked at my finished post (so I thought) under the picture of Trump...
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say is Wow... Just f**king Wow, to the US citizens who voted for him and Canadians who think that this arsewhole will bring any good to the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Lest we forget he is a megalomaniac, a narcissist, a racist, a misogynist, and a man who runs a female beauty show for his pleasure and profit.
> 
> 
> 
> F**K!!!... and Mf and others want this Buffoon to be the President of the US???
> 
> 
> 
> Really.....? Arrgh!!



Exactement, as the French would say.


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----------



## Macfury

The campaigns themselves are spectator sport. Once the votes are tallied it's serious business.

And yes, strong words for an appalling 8 yeas in office. It has much more to do with Obama than with me. I thought that Bush was a poor president, but American decline accelerated following his term of office.



screature said:


> That is not the way you present yourself almost all of the time here. People just need to read your past posts. I have been here a long time and read most of them them and I am of the opinion that you do see it as a game, at least based on your past posts. You may feel differently in your private life, but based on your posts here IMO you see it as a *game* to be won or lost.
> 
> Wow!... Hate!... Destroy! Those are some pretty strong words and I think that says a lot more about you than it does about Obama. But it is your opinion and you have the right to have one in this country and thus far in the US...
> 
> Let us just see if the citizens of the US under the Donald still have the same right. I suspect depending on who you are, based on ethnicity, race, religion, immigrant or colour (Canadian spelling while it still matters) in the US the value of your voice will be ranked according to the above characteristics, for good or bad.
> 
> Going back to a previous post that I mentioned in the "Progressive" thread, Trump is neither status quo or progressive... His politics are regressive and that is why almost all the rest of the world has reason to be concerned... Just like Putin... his politics are regressive as well... no wonder they are almost best buds.


----------



## Macfury

Trump wins again!



> Ford today announced it is cancelling plans for the new plant in San Luis Potosi, Mexico. It also announced that, to improve company profitability and ensure the financial as well as commercial success of this vehicle, the next-generation Focus will be built at an existing plant in Hermosillo, Mexico. This will make way for two new iconic products at Michigan Assembly Plant in Wayne, Michigan, where Focus is manufactured today – safeguarding approximately 3,500 U.S. jobs.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The campaigns themselves are spectator sport. Once the votes are tallied it's serious business.
> 
> And yes, strong words for an appalling 8 yeas in office. It has much more to do with Obama than with me. I thought that Bush was a poor president, but American decline accelerated following his term of office.


Bush wasn't a poor President, he was one of the worst , if not the worst in American history.

He single-handedly caused the chitestorm that we are living through today and Obama did what he could with the worldwide waste land that Bush left in in his wake. But like some autistic kid he comforts himself by painting bad paintings. Pathetic.

So before you blame Obama blame Bush first because he left the world in a shambles that countries all over the world have had to spend billions of dollars to try and clean up the mess that he made.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Trump wins again!


So how the F**K did Trump have anything to do with this? Please explain. You don't even post a citation for your quote. That is really lame.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Bush wasn't a poor President, he was one of the worst , if not the worst in American history.
> 
> He single-handedly caused the chitestorm that we are living through today and Obama did what he could with the worldwide waste land that Bush left in in his wake. But like some autistic kid he comforts himself by painting bad paintings. Pathetic.
> 
> So before you blame Obama blame Bush first because he left the world in a shambles that countries all over the world have had to spend billions of dollars to try and clean up the mess that he made.


Very good points, screature. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> So how the F**K did Trump have anything to do with this? Please explain. You don't even post a citation for your quote. That is really lame.


Ford cancels Mexico plant. Will create 700 U.S. jobs in 'vote of confidence' in Trump - Jan. 3, 2017



> Ford (F) CEO Mark Fields said the investment is a "vote of confidence" in the pro-business environment being created by Donald Trump. However, he stressed Ford did not do any sort of special deal with the president-elect.
> 
> "We didn't cut a deal with Trump. We did it for our business," Fields told CNN's Poppy Harlow in an exclusive interview Tuesday.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Bush wasn't a poor President, he was one of the worst , if not the worst in American history.
> 
> He single-handedly caused the chitestorm that we are living through today and Obama did what he could with the worldwide waste land that Bush left in in his wake. But like some autistic kid he comforts himself by painting bad paintings. Pathetic.
> 
> So before you blame Obama blame Bush first because he left the world in a shambles that countries all over the world have had to spend billions of dollars to try and clean up the mess that he made.


Bush invaded Iraq with bipartisan support--both parties are to blame. However, Obama pulled the troops out of a stabilized Iraq far too early leading to a national collapse. He then systemically preached regime change in Egypt, Libya and Syria, each one an additional disaster. Finally he topped it off with a "deal" in which Iran is guaranteed the right to possess nuclear weapons in 11 years.


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> So before you blame Obama blame Bush first because he left the world in a shambles that countries all over the world have had to spend billions of dollars to try and clean up the mess that he made.


Barry had 8 years to clean up. All he did was make matters worse, despite spending _trillions_ of dollars...


----------



## CubaMark

Meanwhile, in non-Trump U.S. political news:

*Outcry after Republicans vote to dismantle independent ethics body*









House Republicans have gutted an independent ethics watchdog, putting it under their own control, in a secret ballot hours before the new Congress convened for the first time.

The unheralded vote severely weakens the Office of Congressional Ethics (OCE), which was set up after a lobbying scandal in 2008 to investigate corruption allegations against members of Congress. The move, led by the head of the House judiciary committee, defied the Republican congressional leadership and was reportedly supported by several legislators currently under OCE scrutiny.

The amendment was voted through by the House Republican conference over the New Year’s holiday with no prior notice or debate and inserted in a broad rules package the House will vote for on Tuesday. It turns the formerly independent OCE into the Office of Congressional Complaint Review, a subordinate body to the House Ethics Committee, which is currently run by the Republican majority and has a long history of overlooking charges of malfeasance by lawmakers.

* * *​
Representative Bob Goodlatte, a Republican from Virginia who pushed for the changes, defended the vote.

“The amendment builds upon and strengthens the existing Office of Congressional Ethics by maintaining its primary area of focus of accepting and reviewing complaints from the public and referring them, if appropriate, to the Committee on Ethics,” the judiciary committee chairman said in a statement.

Goodlatte did not explain how the OCE had been strengthened by being stripped of its independence and stopped from making public statements.​
(The Guardian)

*ALSO:*

House Republicans To Gut Ethics Watchdog

As one of their first actions in the new Congress, House Republicans are planning to significantly change the Office of Congressional Ethics, removing the entity’s independence, barring it from investigating anonymous complaints and even changing the group’s name.

Less than 24 hours before the House convenes and votes on its rules for the 115th Congress, Republicans adopted an amendment Monday night, 119 to 74, from Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) that would fundamentally change the OCE. The independent ethics board investigates complaints against members and issues reports to the Ethics Committee.

Specifically, the amendment would place the OCE under the “oversight” of the lenient Ethics Committee and rename it the Office of Congressional Complaint Review. The new group would no longer be able to release information to the public, employ anyone “for a position involving communications with the public,” or directly contact law enforcement without approval. It would also be prohibited from investigating anonymous complaints.

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said the change would “functionally destroy” the office.

Republicans themselves defended the changes as necessary adjustments to protect members from political witch hunts.​
(HuffPo)


----------



## Dr.G.

Counting down the days.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Bush invaded Iraq with bipartisan support--both parties are to blame. However, Obama pulled the troops out of a stabilized Iraq far too early leading to a national collapse. He then systemically preached regime change in Egypt, Libya and Syria, each one an additional disaster. Finally he topped it off with a "deal" in which Iran is guaranteed the right to possess nuclear weapons in 11 years.


It was his plan and it would have happened with or without support and was his and the Republicans plan. Period. The Democrats did not want to look "weak" by not going to war because there was an attack on American soil. But the CIA, I suggest at the behest of the President, invented that Sadam had "weapons of mass destruction" to finish what his Dad could not. Kill Sadam before he could tell the whole sordid truth about how the US was directly involved/controlling the involvement in the various wars in the Middle East to the US's benifit. 

Lest we forget Sadama was an ally to the US and a puppet until he decided to go "rogue" and invade Kuwait and that is when Bush Sr. said... oops we have problem here and launched "Desert Storm" to control his puppet. Bush Sr. was directly responsible for Sadam's invasion of Kuwait let there be no doubt. The world we live live in now is due to the legacy of two Bush Presidents.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> Meanwhile, in non-Trump U.S. political news:
> 
> *Outcry after Republicans vote to dismantle independent ethics body*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> House Republicans have gutted an independent ethics watchdog, putting it under their own control, in a secret ballot hours before the new Congress convened for the first time.
> 
> The unheralded vote severely weakens the Office of Congressional Ethics (OCE), which was set up after a lobbying scandal in 2008 to investigate corruption allegations against members of Congress. The move, led by the head of the House judiciary committee, defied the Republican congressional leadership and was reportedly supported by several legislators currently under OCE scrutiny.
> 
> The amendment was voted through by the House Republican conference over the New Year’s holiday with no prior notice or debate and inserted in a broad rules package the House will vote for on Tuesday. It turns the formerly independent OCE into the Office of Congressional Complaint Review, a subordinate body to the House Ethics Committee, which is currently run by the Republican majority and has a long history of overlooking charges of malfeasance by lawmakers.
> 
> * * *​
> Representative Bob Goodlatte, a Republican from Virginia who pushed for the changes, defended the vote.
> 
> “The amendment builds upon and strengthens the existing Office of Congressional Ethics by maintaining its primary area of focus of accepting and reviewing complaints from the public and referring them, if appropriate, to the Committee on Ethics,” the judiciary committee chairman said in a statement.
> 
> Goodlatte did not explain how the OCE had been strengthened by being stripped of its independence and stopped from making public statements.​
> (The Guardian)
> 
> *ALSO:*
> 
> House Republicans To Gut Ethics Watchdog
> 
> As one of their first actions in the new Congress, House Republicans are planning to significantly change the Office of Congressional Ethics, removing the entity’s independence, barring it from investigating anonymous complaints and even changing the group’s name.
> 
> Less than 24 hours before the House convenes and votes on its rules for the 115th Congress, Republicans adopted an amendment Monday night, 119 to 74, from Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) that would fundamentally change the OCE. The independent ethics board investigates complaints against members and issues reports to the Ethics Committee.
> 
> Specifically, the amendment would place the OCE under the “oversight” of the lenient Ethics Committee and rename it the Office of Congressional Complaint Review. The new group would no longer be able to release information to the public, employ anyone “for a position involving communications with the public,” or directly contact law enforcement without approval. It would also be prohibited from investigating anonymous complaints.
> 
> Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said the change would “functionally destroy” the office.
> 
> Republicans themselves defended the changes as necessary adjustments to protect members from political witch hunts.​
> (HuffPo)


Yeah, I heard that today. Ryan was sideswiped as was much of the Republican non-Trump leadership... more of this is sadly yet to come.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Barry had 8 years to clean up. All he did was make matters worse, despite spending _trillions_ of dollars...


F**K that!! The Bush's left the world in such a sad state that the it will take decades to undo.

Obama did not make matters worse because if it were not for the Bush's there would be no matters to make things worse. Try and start at the beginning and apply blame from there...


----------



## CubaMark

screature said:


> It was his plan and it would have happened with or without support and was his and the Republicans plan. Period.


Let's also not forget this essential piece of the historical record from the immediate pre-Iraq-war period (*emphasis mine*):

_...the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came from *a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah*. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what *she had seen with her own eyes* in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait. "I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital," Nayirah said. "While I was there, *I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where ... babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die*."

Three months passed between Nayirah's testimony and the start of the war. During those months, *the story of babies torn from their incubators was repeated over and over again. President Bush told the story. It was recited as fact in Congressional testimony, on TV and radio talk shows, and at the UN Security Council.* "Of all the accusations made against the dictator," MacArthur observed, "none had more impact on American public opinion than the one about Iraqi soldiers removing 312 babies from their incubators and leaving them to die on the cold hospital floors of Kuwait City."

At the Human Rights Caucus, however, *Hill & Knowlton and Congressman Lantos had failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in fact, was Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the US*, who sat listening in the hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to reveal that H&K vice-president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later confirmed was false testimony.

*If Nayirah's outrageous lie had been exposed at the time it was told, it might have at least caused some in Congress and the news media to soberly reevaluate the extent to which they were being skillfully manipulated to support military action.* Public opinion was deeply divided on Bush's Gulf policy. As late as December 1990, a New York Times/CBS News poll indicated that 48 percent of the American people wanted Bush to wait before taking any action if Iraq failed to withdraw from Kuwait by Bush's January 15 deadline. *On January 12, the US Senate voted by a narrow, five-vote margin to support the Bush administration in a declaration of war. Given the narrowness of the vote, the babies-thrown-from-incubators story may have turned the tide in Bush's favor.*

Following the war, human rights investigators attempted to confirm Nayirah's story and could find *no witnesses or other evidence to support it*.* Amnesty International*, which had fallen for the story, *was forced to issue an embarrassing retraction*. Nayirah herself was unavailable for comment. "This is the first allegation I've had that she was the ambassador's daughter," said Human Rights Caucus co-chair John Porter. "Yes, I think people ... were entitled to know the source of her testimony." *When journalists for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation asked Nasir al-Sabah for permission to question Nayirah about her story, the ambassador angrily refused.*_
(PRWatch.org)​


----------



## eMacMan

screature said:


> F**K that!! The Bush's left the world in such a sad state that the it will take decades to undo.
> 
> Obama did not make matters worse because if it were not for the Bush's there would be no matters to make things worse. Try and start at the beginning and apply blame from there...


 Agreed, except that Libya and Syria are at Obama's feet. He lacked the back bone to just say no.

Sadly it appears that Trump is determined to complete the neo-con dream and take out Iran.


----------



## Macfury

Bill Clinton used to speak of the imminent threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction as well. Both parties are implicatedm but Bush pulled the trigger--with the blessing of the Dems.

However, given the chance to gently extricate the US from the Middle East, including a very controlled withdrawal from Iraq, Obama made things much worse.



screature said:


> It was his plan and it would have happened with or without support and was his and the Republicans plan. Period. The Democrats did not want to look "weak" by not going to war because there was an attack on American soil. But the CIA, I suggest at the behest of the President, invented that Sadam had "weapons of mass destruction" to finish what his Dad could not. Kill Sadam before he could tell the whole sordid truth about how the US was directly involved/controlling the involvement in the various wars in the Middle East to the US's benifit.
> 
> Lest we forget Sadama was an ally to the US and a puppet until he decided to go "rogue" and invade Kuwait and that is when Bush Sr. said... oops we have problem here and launched "Desert Storm" to control his puppet. Bush Sr. was directly responsible for Sadam's invasion of Kuwait let there be no doubt. The world we live live in now is due to the legacy of two Bush Presidents.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Yeah, I heard that today. Ryan was sideswiped as was much of the Republican non-Trump leadership... more of this is sadly yet to come.


Trump made it known that he did not want the Republicans to go through with this and they reversed course.



> Following critical tweets by Donald Trump, House Republicans drop plans to remove the independence of the Office of Congressional Ethics


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/03/house-republicans-drop-ethics-watchdog-trump


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> F**K that!! The Bush's left the world in such a sad state that the it will take decades to undo.
> 
> Obama did not make matters worse because if it were not for the Bush's there would be no matters to make things worse. Try and start at the beginning and apply blame from there...


Pres. Bush crashed the car into a tree and then threw the keys to a burning car to Pres. Obama.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Bush crashed the car into a tree and then threw the keys to a burning car to Pres. Obama.


Then Obama filed the car with hand-picked clowns, and drove it into the ocean to put out the flames.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Then Obama filed the car with hand-picked clowns, and drove it into the ocean to put out the flames.


Not quite, mon ami. Luckily, he was able to turn things around after the financial near-disaster we were all facing. He shall be missed by some. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

He hasn't turned things around. No more people are employed than were employed in 2008--except many full-time jobs have been replaced by part-time. Growth is at a virtual standstill. Debt has doubled to $20 trillion. All we have is a stock market bubble fueled by quantitative easing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Not quite, mon ami. Luckily, he was able to turn things around after the financial near-disaster we were all facing. He shall be missed by some. Paix, mon ami.



He will be missed by a great many, including people like myself from around the world. Obama was a truly classy leader compared with the illiterate and narcissistic trailer park trash coming in to take his place. Macfury's revisionist view of history is simply incredible—as though the "support of the Dems" is more important than the actual Republican government that made the decision to squander trillions of dollars on the "war" in Iraq in the first place. It wasn't even a war so much as a slaughter of Iraqis, mainly civilians. Obama's team did better than expected trying to clean up Bush's mess—a mess I'm certain will only get bigger under Trump's shortsighted watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

The Dems voted on the war resolution--utterly essential. And my views are not revisionist. They have been reported all along if you'd been paying attention.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The Dems voted on the war resolution--utterly essential. And my views are not revisionist. They have been reported all along if you'd been paying attention.



Your views are completely revisionist because you revise the actual history to suit your purpose. You may have reported them all along (not that I really care that much about your views nor give them credence), but I will give you credit for being consistent in your revisionism. You see the world from your right wing bubble and no amount of truth will persuade you to question your view. Next you'll be claiming that Trump won the popular vote over Hillary by close to 3 million votes.


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## Macfury

Show me the statistics that say I'm wrong--debt, employment, loss of full-time jobs, GDP growth, slowest recovery from a recession. This is not a matter of debate. It's cold, hard numbers.

Where's the economic success? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your views are completely revisionist because you revise the actual history to suit your purpose. You may have reported them all along (not that I really care that much about your views nor give them credence), but I will give you credit for being consistent in your revisionism. You see the world from your right wing bubble and no amount of truth will persuade you to question your view. Next you'll be claiming that Trump won the popular vote over Hillary by close to 3 million votes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Trump made it known that he did not want the Republicans to go through with this and they reversed course.


I approve of The Donald's action on this matter. Note that the ethics panel has not had / will not have any impact on the office of the President, so it's a win/win for him: he cannot be politically harmed by the panel, and he gets to show his supporters that he's serious  about cleaning up Washington.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Show me the statistics that say I'm wrong--debt, employment, loss of full-time jobs, GDP growth, slowest recovery from a recession. This is not a matter of debate. It's cold, hard numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the economic success?



Private sector job growth from 2007 to 2011. Not bad for a first term.










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## Freddie_Biff

From 2013, using several metrics. This would certainly seem to contradict Macfury's assessment.










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## Macfury

Yup. What this says is that Obama "created" 2.5 million jobs in 8 years, leaving the number of employed people virtually stagnant, while the population grew by 24 million. This is amongst the worst recoveries of all time. In addition, the Obama administration does not differentiate between full and part-time jobs. Most of the full time jobs were replaced by part-time positions. 

America's part-time problem may be permanent - Apr. 25, 2016


----------



## Freddie_Biff

More numbers from the end if 2015. What this says is that Macfury is mistaken in his assumptions.










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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> From 2013, using several metrics. This would certainly seem to contradict Macfury's assessment.k


Many of those numbers are really bad news. Why are you quoting stats from 2013, BTW? It's 2017.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

But at least with Mr. Trump we can look forward to some huuuge new trendsetting hairstyles.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Many of those numbers are really bad news. Why are you quoting stats from 2013, BTW? It's 2017.



I'm looking to find some examples over time. Why aren't you providing any examples at all? 


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## Freddie_Biff

Something else to consider. 










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## Dr.G.

Frank, stats don't tell the whole story about the Obama administration. One can deny statistical facts, but the fact that Pres. Obama brought a new sense of hope to America cannot be denied. Sadly, a Republican Congress was very obstructionist, but he still is a shining light to many. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Ford cancels Mexico plant. Will create 700 U.S. jobs in 'vote of confidence' in Trump - Jan. 3, 2017


Sorry to burst your bubble, MF, but the story isn't quite so rosy as you paint it:

*Ford Cancels Mexican Plant but Is Still Moving Small Car Production*

Ford Motor Co. announced Tuesday it has *scrubbed plans to build a new $1.6 billion assembly plant in Mexico*, a project that had been spotlighted by then-candidate Donald Trump, especially after Ford said it would move small car production from the U.S. into that new factory.

But while the move is being hailed by some as a victory for the president-elect, a closer look at the announcement, made by senior Ford executives at a suburban Detroit assembly plant, did not actually reverse the central decision the automaker announced last April.

*Small car production, such as the compact Focus model, will still move to Mexico, just into an existing Ford plant in Hermosillo.*​
(NBC)

PLUS, from the story you linked to, we discover that the $1.6-billion plant planned for Mexico is tossed, but less than half of that amount is what Ford is investing in a smaller planet within the US:

_The $700 million investment will go to the Flat Rock, Michigan plant to produce more electric and self-driving cars._​
...to make electric cars... not sure how that jibes with Trump's likely policy agenda, which I doubt will further incentives for electrics....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, stats don't tell the whole story about the Obama administration. One can deny statistical facts, but the fact that Pres. Obama brought a new sense of hope to America cannot be denied. Sadly, a Republican Congress was very obstructionist, but he still is a shining light to many. Paix, mon ami.



I agree, Marc. He also has the intelligence and quick wit to skate circles around his thin-skinned successor. Did you ever see his episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jerry Seinfeld?

https://youtu.be/UM-Q_zpuJGU


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## Macfury

That's about as rosy as I thought it was. A good news story for the US.



CubaMark said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, MF, but the story isn't quite so rosy as you paint it:
> 
> *Ford Cancels Mexican Plant but Is Still Moving Small Car Production*
> 
> Ford Motor Co. announced Tuesday it has *scrubbed plans to build a new $1.6 billion assembly plant in Mexico*, a project that had been spotlighted by then-candidate Donald Trump, especially after Ford said it would move small car production from the U.S. into that new factory.
> 
> But while the move is being hailed by some as a victory for the president-elect, a closer look at the announcement, made by senior Ford executives at a suburban Detroit assembly plant, did not actually reverse the central decision the automaker announced last April.
> 
> *Small car production, such as the compact Focus model, will still move to Mexico, just into an existing Ford plant in Hermosillo.*​
> (NBC)
> 
> PLUS, from the story you linked to, we discover that the $1.6-billion plant planned for Mexico is tossed, but less than half of that amount is what Ford is investing in a smaller planet within the US:
> 
> _The $700 million investment will go to the Flat Rock, Michigan plant to produce more electric and self-driving cars._​
> ...to make electric cars... not sure how that jibes with Trump's likely policy agenda, which I doubt will further incentives for electrics....


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I agree, Marc. He also has the intelligence and quick wit to skate circles around his thin-skinned successor. Did you ever see his episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jerry Seinfeld?
> 
> https://youtu.be/UM-Q_zpuJGU
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

"...nothing so liberalizes a man and expands the kindly instincts that nature put in him as travel and contact with many kinds of people." -Mark Twain


----------



## Freddie_Biff

GetToKnowYourPresident: important information about people with NPD - Narcissistic Personality Disorder





























And there's more...

https://imgur.com/gallery/15WvW


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## FeXL

Gee, screature, thx for the measured response.



screature said:


> F**K that!!


Fine. I'd go back to FDR personally, but there are probably some who have a defendable case against the Founding Fathers...

Come on. Really? Every world leader blames his/her predecessor for the crap situation when they took over the reins. It not what you inherited that counts. It's what you do with it.

Barry made it worse.



screature said:


> Try and start at the beginning and apply blame from there...


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> "...nothing so liberalizes a man and expands the kindly instincts that nature put in him as travel and contact with many kinds of people." -Mark Twain


Then I'd suggest you get to know your president, Dr.G. It'll be liberating...


----------



## FeXL

This, the guy who couldn't get a word out edgewise without his teleprompter. And Trump has none.

Amazing...



Freddie_Biff said:


> He also has the intelligence and quick wit...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> This, the guy who couldn't get a word out edgewise without his teleprompter. And Trump has none.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing...



Trump has no teleprompter because he doesn't know how to read. 


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## screature

eMacMan said:


> Agreed, except that Libya and Syria are at Obama's feet. He lacked the back bone to just say no.
> 
> Sadly it appears that Trump is determined to complete the neo-con dream and take out Iran.


I disagree. The situation in Syria and Libya were also started by the Bush's, Bush Jr. just didn't have the brains to figure out how the dominoes would fall after invading Iraq and quite frankly I don't think he would have cared even if he had the brains or the heart to care.

Yes I agree that Obama's policies are complicit in what is happening in Libya and Syria but the UN and NATO are more directly and seriously to blame as is Putin.

Putin wants the world to be destabilized, it is part of his agenda to make "Russia Great Again". No wonder he and Trump are kissing cousins or more like likely bum buddies seeing as they both seem to want to f**k the world (up).

I know this is not PG reading but since when has ehMac been rated PG?


----------



## SINC

Hmmmmm

WORST PRESIDENT EVER: Obama's $20 Trillion Debt an Unprecedented Disaster


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump has no teleprompter because he doesn't know how to read.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Then I'd suggest you get to know your president, Dr.G. It'll be liberating...


My president right now is President Obama. I voted for him twice and proud of both votes. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> I disagree. The situation in Syria and Libya were also started by the Bush's, Bush Jr. just didn't have the brains to figure out how the dominoes would fall after invading Iraq and quite frankly I don't think he would have cared even if he had the brains or the heart to care.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I agree that Obama's policies are complicit in what is happening in Libya and Syria but the UN and NATO are more directly and seriously to blame as is Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin wants the world to be destabilized, it is part of his agenda to make "Russia Great Again". No wonder he and Trump are kissing cousins or more like likely bum buddies seeing as they both seem to want to f**k the world (up).
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is not PG reading but since when has ehMac been rated PG?



Moderators? We don't need no stinkin' moderators! 


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----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Gee, screature, thx for the measured response.
> 
> Fine. I'd go back to FDR personally, but there are probably some who have a defendable case against the Founding Fathers...
> 
> Come on. Really? Every world leader blames his/her predecessor for the crap situation when they took over the reins. It not what you inherited that counts. It's what you do with it.
> 
> Barry made it worse.


I figured you were a big boy and could handle it as you have given out much worse... Maybe in our youth we could have settled it on the scrimmage line.  

You don't need to go back to FDR or the founding fathers, just go back to who started a war with Iraq. That would be Bush Sr. Everything else since then is his progeny and lies at his feet and I am sure that he feels sad that his son could not finish what he started.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Moderators? We don't need no stinkin' moderators!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I know but for some reason I felt the need to say it, I really don't know why.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Yeah I know but for some reason I felt the need to say it, I really don't know why.



Interestingly enough, the other forums I frequent where people tend to be more respectful overall, have no problems with four letter words, but they do take exception when members take a rude tone or insult one another. You know, basic gas lighting or trolling behaviour. It's the basic decorum despite differing approaches and viewpoints that is the sign of a mature forum discussion. 


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## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Bush crashed the car into a tree and then threw the keys to a burning car to Pres. Obama.


Yep.

The analogy that I have is this this:

Someone starts a fire and lets it burn and then the fire department is called and they say it is out of control and beyond their ability to stop it on their own unless they get some more help. But in the mean time thousands of homes and lives are lost.

Who is to blame? The person who started the fire or those who could not put it out?

I think you know what my answer would be but for some strange reason some people here think that it is the firefighters to blame for their failure to put out the fire and not the person who started the fire.


----------



## Macfury

Nobody says that Bush did a great job--but Obama tried to put out the fire with gasoline. What I liked about Trump's campaign is that he acknowledged Bush's failure in invading Iraq. Given the bad precedent of Iraq, I don't see why Obama tried to force regime change in Egypt, Libya, Ukraine and Syria. The Iraq invasion did not lead to these demands on Obama's part.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Interestingly enough, the other forums I frequent where people tend to be more respectful overall, have no problems with four letter words, but they do take exception when members take a rude tone or insult one another. You know, basic gas lighting or trolling behaviour. It's the basic decorum despite differing approaches and viewpoints that is the sign of a mature forum discussion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I hear you and I had to stop myself recently from going on a personal rant to someone here and deleted the post completely.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> I figured you were a big boy and could handle it as you have given out much worse... Maybe in our youth we could have settled it on the scrimmage line.
> 
> You don't need to go back to FDR or the founding fathers, just go back to who started a war with Iraq. That would be Bush Sr. Everything else since then is his progeny and lies at his feet and I am sure that he feels sad that his son could not finish what he started.


Destabilizing Iraq and Iran goes back way before Jimmy Carter. A beautiful bi-partisan effort. Neither party has its hands clean.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Nobody says that Bush did a great job--b*ut Obama tried to put out the fire with gasoline.* What I liked about Trump's campaign is that he acknowledged Bush's failure in invading Iraq.


How so? Please explain. 

You post a lot but often with very few words to explain yourself. It seems that you don't think it is worth your time and everyone should just "get" where you are coming from.

However, not every one speaks "Macfurines" and cannot read your mind and so taking the time to explain yourself would be beneficial to the readers of your posts who are not inside your head.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> I hear you and I had to stop myself recently from going on a personal rant to someone here and deleted the post completely.



Yup. It just works so much better if we accept each other's differing views and leave it at that sometimes. I was reading an article about how it's actually pretty much impossible for right wingers to convince left wingers and vice versa. Political preferences actually become hard wired into our brains or something. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Destabilizing Iraq and Iran goes back way before Jimmy Carter. A beautiful bi-partisan effort. Neither party has its hands clean.


The middle east hasn't been stable since... well forever. So your point is moot. All we can deal with is looking back a couple of decades to see who started the current chitestorm and on this current front the Bush's are clearly to blame as the ones who started this particular fire.


----------



## Macfury

As I said earlier, Iraq had become somewhat stable. A partisan decision to pull put most uS troops created a horrible power vacuum that caused Iraq to implode and create a breeding ground for ISIS. It may not have been palatable for Obama to keep troops there for somewhat longer, but it would have been prudent. That restarted the fire. Forcing regime change in Libya, Syria and Egypt was the gasoline on that fire.

Likewise, Obama's economic plans involved inflating endlessly inflating currency though quantitative easing and other methods. He replaced the housing bubble with a stock market bubble. More gas on fire.

Obama started his administration with a $9-trillion cumulative deficit and bitterly complained about it. It's now $20 trillion and would have been higher if Congress had approved the numbers. More gas on a fire. I can't imagine $11 trillion having so little effect on economic growth, but he managed that too.



screature said:


> How so? Please explain.
> 
> You post a lot but often with very few words to explain yourself. It seems that you don't think it is worth your time and everyone should just "get" where you are coming from.
> 
> However, not every one speaks "Macfurines" and cannot read your mind and so taking the time to explain yourself would be beneficial to the readers of your posts who are not inside your head.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. It just works so much better if we accept each other's differing views and leave it at that sometimes. I was reading an article about how it's actually pretty much impossible for *right wingers to convince left wingers *and vice versa. Political preferences actually become hard wired into our brains or something.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both in hockey and football there is a centre position as well. Funny that.. I played centre for my high-school football team.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> The middle east hasn't been stable since... well forever. So your point is moot. All we can deal with is looking back a couple of decades to see who started the current chitestorm and on this current front the Bush's are clearly to blame as the ones who started this particular fire.


It's easy to say that the Middle East has always been unstable--but meddling in Iraq and Iran seems to be a US pastime. Look to US support of the capricious and unpopular Shah of Iran, and Saddam Hussein for a direct link to failed action during the Bush years.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *As I said earlier, Iraq had become somewhat stable. A partisan decision to pull put most uS troops created a horrible power vacuum that caused Iraq to implode and create a breeding ground for ISIS. *It may not have been palatable for Obama to keep troops there for somewhat longer, but it would have been prudent. That restarted the fire. *Forcing regime change in Libya, Syria and Egypt was the gasoline on that fire.
> *
> Likewise, Obama's economic plans involved inflating endlessly inflating currency though quantitative easing and other methods. He replaced the housing bubble with a stock market bubble. More gas on fire.
> 
> Obama started his administration with a $9-trillion cumulative deficit and bitterly complained about it. It's now $20 trillion and wouFF88 so little effect on economic growth, but he managed that too.


As I also said go back and look at who started the fire and who are you going to blame if the fire keeps burning. The person started the fire or those who are left to try and put it out.

F**k man Obama did not do that that, those were movements in those countries unto them selves. Cripes I guess next you will be blaming the weather on Obama.

My grandmother actually did that when Diefenbaker was in power, if the weather was bad it was his fault.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. It just works so much better if we accept each other's differing views and leave it at that sometimes. I was reading an article about how it's actually pretty much impossible for right wingers to convince left wingers and vice versa. Political preferences actually become hard wired into our brains or something.


I believe that you're correct in this. We all live in a world that emanates from our own heads and that's fine as long as it doesn't stop us from eating, finding shelter and procreating. It's only when we try force other people to live in our world that we run into trouble. This is why I despise powerful central governments--they force us to live inside other people's constructs, then demand we also fund those constructs. This leads to major conflict.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It's easy to say that the Middle East has always been unstable--but meddling in Iraq and Iran seems to be a US pastime. Look to US support of the capricious and unpopular Shah of Iran, and Saddam Hussein for a direct link to failed action during the Bush years.


No doubt. When it comes to the Middle East the US has been unsuccessfully meddling for decades. So it's the same as it ever was except that the latest "crisis" was caused by the action of the Bushs' administration and not Obama's.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> As I also said go back and look at who started the fire and who are you going to blame if the fire keeps burning. The person started the fire or those who are left to try and put it out.
> 
> F**k man Obama did not do that that, those were movements in those countries unto them selves. Cripes I guess next you will be blaming the weather on Obama.
> 
> My grandmother actually did that when Diefenbaker was in power, if the weather was bad it was his fault.


Obama specifically called for the ouster of the leaders of each of those countries, and promised to back the rebels who would take them down 

I certainly never saw Obama attempt to put out Middle East fires--he fanned the flames. He's the latest meddler in a long line of US meddlers.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I believe that you're correct in this. We all live in a world that emanates from our own heads and that's fine as long as it doesn't stop us from eating, finding shelter and procreating. It's only when we try force other people to live in our world that we run into trouble. This is why I despise powerful central governments--they force us to live inside other people's constructs, then demand we also fund those constructs. This leads to major conflict.


I agree. But it is a very unfortunate reality that we all have to try to do our best to live with.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Obama specifically called for the ouster of the leaders of each of those countries, and promised to back the rebels who would take them down
> 
> I certainly never saw Obama attempt to put out Middle East fires--he fanned the flames. He's the latest meddler in a long line of US meddlers.


The protests were already happening, he was commenting on freedom of speech and action and being an advocate for democracy. What else would you have him do! Just shut up be quite?


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> I agree. But it is a very unfortunate reality that we all have to try to do our best to live with.


This is why I believe that strong central governments are counterproductive. The US was a happier place before a strong federal government attempted to overrule the power of individual states to set their own agendas and respect their own individual cultures.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> This is why I believe that strong central governments are counterproductive. The US was a happier place before a strong federal government attempted to overrule the power of individual states to set their own agendas and respect their own individual cultures.


As is the case in Canada and I agree and thus why I do not support baby Trudeau's agenda.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> The protests were already happening, he was commenting on freedom of speech and action and being an advocate for democracy. What else would you have him do! Just shut up be quite?


He was being an advocate for rebels--there was no reason to expect their rebellion to result in democracy. I would not have called for the overthrow of any of those leaders, nor promised support to the forces attempting to overthrow them. very specifically, I would not have bombed Libya to kill Qadafi.

I am no fan of Bush I or II, but interfering in the Middle East seems to be a passion for US presidents. So far, only Donald Trump has had the balls among Republicans to call out Bush II for his Iraq invasion, which is like breath of fresh air.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> As is the case in Canada and I agree and thus why I do not support baby Trudeau's agenda.


This is why we mostly get along!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> He was being an advocate for rebels--there was no reason to expect their rebellion to result in democracy. I would not have called for the overthrow of any of those leaders, nor promised support to the forces attempting to overthrow them. very specifically, I would not have bombed Libya to kill Qadafi.
> 
> I am no fan of Bush I or II, but interfering in the Middle East seems to be a passion for US presidents. So far, only Donald Trump has had the balls among Republicans to call out Bush II for his Iraq invasion, which is like breath of fresh air.


But, he has been quoted before he was running for Pres. as supporting the invasion. So either he had an amazing revelation or he is just being duplicitous for political gain. I think I will go with the latter based on the man's previous track record on everything that he has done in his past.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> This is why we mostly get along!


Probably so.


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> I figured you were a big boy and could handle it as you have given out much worse...


I don't know about worse but, yeah, I've sworn on these boards. It's usually directed at some ignorant Prog who doesn't know his ass from his elbow. 

You know, the type of person who doesn't know the difference between 5% & 40%. The type of person who would say, "Rachel's smart. She's 50!". The type of person who thinks that renewable energy is the next best thing to sliced bread. The type of person who believes in AGW and that Alberta's Carbon Tax will in any way, shape or form, save the planet from overheating. The type of person who has nothing but criticism for the qualifications of 70 year old billionaire president-elect Trump yet is perfectly content with university student MLA's.

I _could_ go on...

Not in polite conversation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I believe that you're correct in this. We all live in a world that emanates from our own heads and that's fine as long as it doesn't stop us from eating, finding shelter and procreating. It's only when we try force other people to live in our world that we run into trouble. This is why I despise powerful central governments--they force us to live inside other people's constructs, then demand we also fund those constructs. This leads to major conflict.



I can understand and appreciate that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

The end is nigh.

PIERS MORGAN urges Obama to end his 'Trump temper tantrum' | Daily Mail Online


----------



## FeXL

Bang up job, Barry.

Here's How Many Seats the Dems Lost During the 8 Years of Obama's Presidency



> But what we do know is that during Obama's eight years in office, *Democrats lost more than 1,030 seats in state legislatures, governorships, and the U.S. Congress — not to mention the 2016 presidential election.*


M'bold.

Period.

But...the RUSSKIES!!!


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> I don't know about worse but, yeah, I've sworn on these boards. It's usually directed at some ignorant Prog who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.
> 
> You know, the type of person who doesn't know the difference between 5% & 40%. The type of person who would say, "Rachel's smart. She's 50!". The type of person who thinks that renewable energy is the next best thing to sliced bread. The type of person who believes in AGW and that Alberta's Carbon Tax will in any way, shape or form, save the planet from overheating. The type of person who has nothing but criticism for the qualifications of 70 year old billionaire president-elect Trump yet is perfectly content with university student MLA's.
> 
> I _could_ go on...
> 
> Not in polite conversation.


Thanks for the reply and I did not mean to offend by my post. I said "F**K that" at the argument you were making, not to you personally. 

It is one of the weaknesses of forums, when you reply to someone it all just comes across as "coarse" language and by that I mean there is not the nuance/subtly of tone, facial expression etc. that there is when talking face to face.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Thanks for the reply and I did not mean to offend by my post. I said "F**K that" at the argument you were making, not to you personally.
> 
> 
> 
> It is one of the weaknesses of forums, when you reply to someone it all just comes across as "coarse" language and by that I mean there is not the nuance/subtly of tone, facial expression etc. that there is when talking face to face.



Who needs subtleties? Fukc him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The end is nigh.
> 
> 
> 
> PIERS MORGAN urges Obama to end his 'Trump temper tantrum' | Daily Mail Online



You can't really blame Barry for being frustrated though, watching a total buffoon who didn't even want the job (or at least the amount of work that goes with the job) take over one of the most important responsibilities in one of the powerful countries in the world. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You can't really blame Barry for being frustrated though, watching a total buffoon who didn't even want the job (or at least the amount of work that goes with the job) take over one of the most important responsibilities in one of the powerful countries in the world.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true, Frank. I wonder what Trumpcare will look like. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> All too true, Frank. I wonder what Trumpcare will look like. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



He will make America great again—like when minorities knew their place. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Obama is cheesed because Trump is going to overturn his half-baked legacy! Hope he does it quickly!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> He will make America great again—like when minorities knew their place.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

I agree with Trump: Obamacare should be replaced.

But the only logical step is single-payer, socialized medicine. Take the corporate largess, insurance company manipulation, wasteful duplication of institutions out of the equation.

I doubt Trump would agree with me...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

Is Trump just the tip of the iceberg in the future?

Is Mark Zuckerberg Eyeing the White House?


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Is Trump just the tip of the iceberg in the future?


Hope Zuckerberg's intentions are nothing more than one big nightmare.

'Sides, HE HAS NO POLITICAL EXPERIENCE!!!


----------



## FeXL

Not a surprise to anybody whose been paying attention.

Trump ahead of Obama by 1 in hypothetical matchup



> Donald Trump leads Barack Obama by one point in a hypothetical face-off between the current president and next president, according to a new poll released Wednesday.


----------



## FeXL

Of course. It's a pahtay!

'Sides, gotta rub shoulders with the newcomers. The Clinton Foundation is running a bit short after the failed campaign...

Clintons to attend Trump's inauguration


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hope Zuckerberg's intentions are nothing more than one big nightmare.
> 
> 'Sides, HE HAS *NO POLITICAL EXPERIENCE*!!!


You mean, like Donald Trump?



:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You mean, like Donald Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



Exactly. Big difference is that Zuckerberg knows how to read. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ehMax

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Big difference is that Zuckerberg knows how to read.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And he actually made Billions and would release his tax returns to show it. 

And he has donated billions. 

And he truly wants the best for all of humanity for the future, not just for 4.4% of the world's population over the next decade. 

And for thousands of other reasons.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Big difference is that Zuckerberg knows how to read.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

ehMax said:


> And he actually made Billions and would release his tax returns to show it.
> 
> And he has donated billions.
> 
> And he truly wants the best for all of humanity for the future, not just for 4.4% of the world's population over the next decade.
> 
> And for thousands of other reasons.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You mean, like Donald Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:


You missed FeXL's irony. It was pretty obvious!


----------



## Macfury

ehMax said:


> And he truly wants the best for all of humanity for the future...


Because he whispered it into your ear?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

ehMax said:


> And he actually made Billions and would release his tax returns to show it.
> 
> 
> 
> And he has donated billions.
> 
> 
> 
> And he truly wants the best for all of humanity for the future, not just for 4.4% of the world's population over the next decade.
> 
> 
> 
> And for thousands of other reasons.



There you go. And just to clarify, we're talking 4.4% of the world's population, not 4.4 cents per litre of the world's population. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

And he's already an expert in censoring news to help governments all over the world--great diplomat!




Freddie_Biff said:


> There you go. And just to clarify, we're talking 4.4% of the world's population, not 4.4 cents per litre of the world's population.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


----------



## eMacMan

Please CM, not everyone is using a 2500 pixel width display. You can make an argument that in this age a max width of 1000 pixels is acceptable, but anything wider is a bit of an insult to those who cannot afford cinema sized displays.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Please CM, not everyone is using a 2500 pixel width display. You can make an argument that in this age a max width of 1000 pixels is acceptable, but anything wider is a bit of an insult to those who cannot afford cinema sized displays.


Sorry, dude. I'm on a 13" laptop and it displays fine for me. EhMac auto-resizes images to fit into - I think - about 900 pixels. What browser are you using? And are you using the *EhMac Fluid Width - New Style* theme? (bottom-left of the page).

The adjustment is done on-the-fly, and occasionally takes a second or two to kick in, but usually I don't even notice it....


----------



## CubaMark

*The G.O.P. Health Care Hoax*



> This week, President-elect Donald Trump and congressional Republicans began to dismantle Obamacare, and here are the details of their replacement plan:
> 
> *—— —- —- —- - —— —- —— —- - —- —- — —— —- —— —- —- —- — — - - - - —— —- —- —— —- —- —- - —— —- —— —- - —- —- — —— —- - —- —- — - —- —- — —— —- - —- —- — - —- —-*​
> That captures the nonexistent Republican plan to replace Obamacare. They’re telling Americans who feel trapped by health care problems: “Jump! Maybe we’ll catch you.”
> 
> This G.O.P. fraud is called “repeal and delay.” That means repealing the Affordable Care Act, effective in a few years without specifying what will replace it.
> 
> If the Republicans ran a home renovation business, they would start tearing down your roof this month and promise to return in 2019 with some options for a new one — if you survived.
> 
> And survival will be a real issue. The bottom line of the G.O.P. approach is that millions of Americans will lose insurance, and thousands more will die unnecessarily each year because of lack of care.


(NYTimes)


----------



## FeXL

Exactly my point, Captain Obvious. The Progs will be twisting themselves into pretzels rationalizing the fact that he has no "prior experience" while endorsing him as the perfect Prog candidate.

The second last person on this planet I want to see as POTUS is Zuckerberg.



CubaMark said:


> You mean, like Donald Trump?


----------



## FeXL

Zing!!!



Macfury said:


> You missed FeXL's irony. It was pretty obvious!


----------



## FeXL

What's this obsession to see a candidate's tax returns? I don't understand.



ehMax said:


> And he actually made Billions and would release his tax returns to show it.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Of all the crap that his pen & his phone enacted, the Charlie Foxtrot is the first thing that needs to be fixed.

Breaking: U.S. Senate Defies Obama



> _The new Congress was sworn in on Tuesday, and the first thing it did was prepare to repeal Obamacare.
> 
> Senate Budget Committee Chair Michael Enzi (R-WY) introduced a budget resolution Tuesday that includes “reconciliation instructions” that enable Congress to repeal Obamacare with a simple Senate majority. Passing a budget resolution that includes those instructions will mean that the legislation can pass through the budget reconciliation process, in which bills cannot be filibustered. That means Republicans will only need 50 of their 52 members in the Senate, and a bare majority in the House, to pass legislation repealing the Affordable Care Act. According to the Wall Street Journal, the budget resolution could be passed by both houses as early as next week._​


----------



## FeXL

Sounds good to me.

Conservative pundit: Trump should 'put his name on' UN headquarters and 'turn it into condos'



> Conservative pundit Charles Krauthammer railed against the United Nations on Monday, saying President-elect Donald Trump should put his name on the organization's Manhattan headquarters and "turn it into condos."


More:



> "It is an organization that exacerbates tensions, not assuages them," Krauthammer said of the UN. "... Any move to minimize our support for it, any move to get it out of the US, imagine if headquarters were in Zimbabwe. The amount of weight and coverage it would get would be zero."


Yep...


----------



## SINC

Another view.

OBAMA Gives Himself A MAJOR Award Like Only A True Narcissist Would...Twitter Goes Crazy! » 100percentfedUp.com


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> You missed FeXL's irony. It was pretty obvious!


Yeah I thought so as well. It really was pretty obvious, to me.


----------



## screature

ehMax said:


> And he actually made Billions and would release his tax returns to show it.
> 
> And he has donated billions.
> 
> And he truly wants the best for all of humanity for the future, not just for 4.4% of the world's population over the next decade.
> 
> And for thousands of other reasons.





Dr.G. said:


> :clap::lmao::clap:





Dr.G. said:


> :clap::clap::clap::clap:





Macfury said:


> Because he whispered it into your ear?





Freddie_Biff said:


> There you go. And just to clarify, we're talking 4.4% of the world's population, not 4.4 cents per litre of the world's population.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well... What Mark Zuckerberg has created is not without its critics or beyond criticism. Personally I think he has created one of the worst scourges in human history, but that is not just me. 

I don't think he is evil or meant to create a great scourge against humanity, but like many other profit driven geniuses he makes mistakes and creates a chite storm that was not his intention.


----------



## Macfury

Here's a nice depiction of the Obama economic record, stats courtesy JP Morgan. Each line represents cumulative economic growth following the peak of the prior expansion, so 4Q48 would be the 4th quarter of 1948. Obama's is officially the most feeble economic recovery of any president since WWII--fueled by an additional $10 trillion deficit.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Well... What Mark Zuckerberg has created is not without its critics or beyond criticism. Personally I think he has created one of the worst scourges in human history, but that is not just me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he is evil or meant to create a great scourge against humanity, but like many other profit driven geniuses he makes mistakes and creates a chite storm that was not his intention.



Zuckerberg inadvertently created something that helped millions of people connect with each other in a way that was not previously possible. Trump has created that helps primarily himself. Very different motives, I'd say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Not the best ever, but not bad. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> GLOBE STAFF JANUARY 06, 2017
> WASHINGTON – An assessment by the top American intelligence agencies has concluded that Russian president Vladimir Putin “ordered an influence campaign” that aimed to damage the campaign of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and help pave the way for Putin’s preferred candidate, Donald Trump.
> 
> The 25-page report — which was called “a declassified version of a highly classified assessment” — is bound to prolong the intense debate between the president-elect and the intelligence agencies that are beginning to advise him. The review was ordered last month by President Obama and released on Friday afternoon, just hours after Trump was briefed by intelligence officials.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...ml?s_campaign=bostonglobe:socialflow:facebook


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----------



## Freddie_Biff

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats...grow-up-donald.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats...grow-up-donald.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Hmmmm . . .

*Rolling Stone Says Obama Is Lying About ‘Russian Hacking'*

https://truthkings.com/rolling-stone-says-obama-lying-russian-hacking/#


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Hmmmm . . .
> 
> *Rolling Stone Says Obama Is Lying About ‘Russian Hacking'*
> 
> https://truthkings.com/rolling-stone-says-obama-lying-russian-hacking/#


Did you see the so-called "intelligence" report? Some Russians were happy about Trump's victory, therefore, they hacked the election. Unbelievably sloppy. This is cover for the embarrassing failure of Obama's hand-picked candidate running on "his legacy."


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Did you see the so-called "intelligence" report? Some Russians were happy about Trump's victory, therefore, they hacked the election. Unbelievably sloppy. This is cover for the embarrassing failure of Obama's hand-picked candidate running on "his legacy."


Not to mention that the so-called hacks were previously revealed to Congress by the FBI. Then labeled as Russian hacks by the duplicitous CIA via the Washington Compost. However the real crime, according to the DNC, seems to be that the Russians revealed the truth about Hiliary and the rest of her Cabal. Worse than that they used the Democrats own eMails to accomplish this coup and somehow infiltrated the top level of the FBI and used them to reveal the contents of the eMails to Congress and the American Public. To call this propaganda campaign sloppy is a severe understatement. What's worse is the willingness of a brainwashed public to swallow it whole.

Obviously the intent here is to ratchet up tension with the Russians, and the motive is a return to the cold war glory days that served the MIC so well. Witness the US troop build ups along the Russian border.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Obviously the intent here is to ratchet up tension with the Russians, and the motive is a return to the cold war glory days that served the MIC so well. Witness the US troop build ups along the Russian border.


That buildup is scarcely mentioned. After Obama sent Democrat operatives to Israel to work against Netanyahu during the last Israel election, and the US worked to destabilize the Ukraine government by installing its own favoured candidate, any talk about "hacking elections" is truly mind-blowing.


----------



## SINC

Yep, good idea. 'Course once Obama is gone, it will stop.

WikiLeaks to US government: Stop leaking secrets! | Ars Technica


----------



## SINC

Was there ever any doubt?


----------



## SINC

Oh my!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Oh my!



I like this one better. 












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I like this one better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, Putin did "double dog dare" Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Putin did "double dog dare" Trump.




Oui, Monsieur! Absolutement! 

For what it's worth, Jean Shepard, who wrote this story, also penned "Wanda Hickey's Night of Golden Memories." A very witty writer! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oui, Monsieur! Absolutement!
> 
> For what it's worth, Jean Shepard, who wrote this story, also penned "Wanda Hickey's Night of Golden Memories." A very witty writer!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, I have all three of Jean Shepard's books. I met him when I was a freshman in university at The Limelight in Greenwich Village in NYC. Loved listening to his nightly show on WOR-AM from 915-10PM every week night.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, I have all three of Jean Shepard's books. I met him when I was a freshman in university at The Limelight in Greenwich Village in NYC. Loved listening to his nightly show on WOR-AM from 915-10PM every week night.



Way cool, daddy-O! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

More on that "Russian hacking"--do these devilish spies have no decency?:



> Russia also used state-funded propaganda and paid "trolls" *to make nasty comments on social media services*, the report said.


News from The Associated Press


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Way cool, daddy-O!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Merci, mon ami. JS had a cameo role on camera in The Christmas Story when Ralphie and his brother were off to see Santa. JS's own voice was used for the narration.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. JS had a cameo role on camera in The Christmas Story when Ralphie and his brother were off to see Santa. JS's own voice was used for the narration.



That's what I read on IMDb!  So many Easter eggs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

_Yup._

*US Ethics Office 'have lost contact' with Donald Trump's transition team* (The Independent)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Yup._
> 
> *US Ethics Office 'have lost contact' with Donald Trump's transition team* (The Independent)


Where were these guys during the last 8 years??!!


----------



## Dr.G.

At the end of his administration, Ike started to realize the consequences of the "military/industrial complex".


----------



## SINC

'Bout right . . .


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> At the end of his administration, Ike started to realize the consequences of the "military/industrial complex".


_ "Barack Obama started with a Nobel Peace Prize and is ending his presidency with the Pentagon's Distinguished Public Service Medal.

Sounds about right for a president who bombed 7 nations and became the first in U.S. history to be at war every single day of his eight year administration."_

--Ron Paul


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## eMacMan

Turns out the claims of FBI reports of RT influence on the presidential election were somewhat true. Trouble is they were prepared immediately after the 2012 election.


----------



## Macfury

The way they're drawnm they look like losers!



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## Dr.G.

Charlie Brotman, 81, has been an announcer at presidential inaugurations since 1957.

Well, Trump did say he was going to "drain the swamp". 

Trump drops inauguration announcer Charles Brotman who's done them all since Eisenhower - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> _ "Barack Obama started with a Nobel Peace Prize and is ending his presidency with the Pentagon's Distinguished Public Service Medal.
> 
> Sounds about right for a president who bombed 7 nations and became the first in U.S. history to be at war every single day of his eight year administration."_
> 
> --Ron Paul


But...THE LEFT HATES WAR!!! Damn the Left!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

McConnell: Trump's Russia hopes 'will be dashed pretty quickly' - CNNPolitics.com

Are we looking at Putin-Trump relationship all wrong? (Opinion) - CNN.com

That's it!!! Trump and his new team are smart, they'll look to turn the tables and put Putin himself at a disadvantage. They will get him unelected the next time that there is an election in Russia. A great plan.

Now, if can only convince the fiscal conservatives that they will be laying out the 10 billion + for the Mexican wall, but that Mexico will repay this money, with interest.


----------



## SINC

Once an arsehole, always an . . .

Michael Moore Calls for '100 Days of Resistance' to Fight Trump


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> But...THE LEFT HATES WAR!!! Damn the Left!!!


What is this "Left" of which you speak? It sure as hell isn't Obama and company.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> What is this "Left" of which you speak? It sure as hell isn't Obama and company.



Never mind, Mark. He needs to simplify the world into left vs. right, progs vs. cons. It's all part of the OCD. It can't be helped. Everyone has to be one or the other. You're either for us or you're agin' us.


----------



## FeXL

Just because your personal ideology places anyone immediately right of Mao, Stalin & Pol Pot as neo-con.

Barry & Co are dyed in the wool leftys. So was Bill's Wife, willing as she was to carry on his legacy. One of the reasons she got her butt handed to her. Americans are tired of the lefty narrative...



CubaMark said:


> What is this "Left" of which you speak? It sure as hell isn't Obama and company.


----------



## FeXL

Yet you're the one who started the pro-Prog thread. What is it about you Progs & hypocrisy? Take a look in the mirror first...



Freddie_Biff said:


> He needs to simplify the world into left vs. right, progs vs. cons. It's all part of the OCD. It can't be helped. Everyone has to be one or the other. You're either for us or you're agin' us.


----------



## SINC

SINC said:


> Once an arsehole, always an . . .
> 
> Michael Moore Calls for '100 Days of Resistance' to Fight Trump


Remember Chuck Woolery? He gets it!

VIDEO : Chuck Woolery Slams Out of Touch Celebs Wanting to Overturn Election


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Is it still a Prog conspiracy theory when even Trump himself admits Russian interference in the US election? 


























http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...ssia+engaged+cyberattacks/12667280/story.html


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, the first step is admitting that there is a problem.


----------



## Macfury

Biff, please stop with the lazy ass screenshots. It's about as rude a using the "eff word."

Trump does not say there was a "Russian hack". Priebus did.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Biff, please stop with the lazy ass screenshots. It's about as rude a using the "eff word."
> 
> 
> 
> Trump does not say there was a "Russian hack". Priebus did.



I will post the way I post, nothing lazy about it. I don't really care what you think. Click the link if you don't like the screen shot. If you don't like it, don't read it. And who exactly do you think Priebus works for?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you understand Trump strategy, lazy ass poster!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I will post the way I post, nothing lazy about it. I don't really care what you think. Click the link if you don't like the screen shot. If you don't like it, don't read it. And who exactly do you think Priebus works for?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I don't think you understand Trump strategy, lazy ass poster!


Merely one thing he doesn't understand from a long list...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

> "The person asking to sit in the most respected seat in our country imitated a disabled reporter, someone he outranked in privilege, power, and the capacity to fight back...I still can't get it out of my head...This instinct to humiliate, when it's modeled by someone in the public platform, by someone powerful, it filters down into everybody's life, because it kind of gives permission for other people to do the same thing."
> -- Meryl Streep on Trump





> "One of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood... A Hillary flunky who lost big."
> -- President-Elect Trump in response


(Doonesbury)


----------



## SINC

Trump is right about one thing. Award ceremonies are no place for actors to park their political opinions, period.

Actors are but people who pretend to be other people for a living, and their opinions should carry no more weight than any average American. It is time award shows banned the practice.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Trump is right about one thing. Award ceremonies are no place for actors to park their political opinions, period.
> 
> Actors are but people who pretend to be other people for a living, and their opinions should carry no more weight than any average American. It is time award shows banned the practice.


I'm also tired of this "mocking a disabled reporter" BS. Trump has used the same schtick to mimic people who are groveling in other speeches as well.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Award ceremonies are no place for actors to park their political opinions, period.


Further:

Paddy, We Hardly Knew Ye.



> Later, when he took to the podium, [Paddy] Chayefsky said:
> 
> _I would like to say, personal opinion, of course, that I’m sick and tired of people exploiting the Academy Awards for the propagation of their own personal political propaganda. I would like to suggest to Ms. Redgrave that her winning an Academy Award is not a pivotal moment in history, does not require a proclamation, and a simple ‘thank you’ would have sufficed._​


Nails it.

You start using the podium as a pulpit? Immediate loss of the award. After the mic's are turned off in mid-sentence & you are given the bum's rush offstage. Or dropped through the secret door right by the podium.

It's one of the reasons I haven't watched an award show in over a decade. The last thing I need is to be bitched at by yet another millionaire social justice warrior Prog.


----------



## FeXL

h/t SDA.

Huh. Doing what Barry couldn't do in a dozen terms. And all before the inauguration. Must be those Russkies all the Progs are talking about...

Fiat to invest $1 billion in Michigan, Ohio plants, create 2,000 jobs



> FCA, the U.S. arm of automaker Fiat-Chrysler, announced on Sunday that it would invest a total $1 billion in plants in Michigan and Ohio, which will add 2000 new jobs in the United States.


Alibaba job boom: Jack Ma chats with Trump about how to create 1 million US jobs over 5 years



> President-elect Donald Trump said he had a "great meeting" with Alibaba executive chairman Jack Ma on Monday, when they discussed 1 million new U.S. jobs.
> 
> Ma said that Alibaba's expansion would focus on products like garments, wine and fruits, especially in the Midwest.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> h/t SDA.
> 
> Huh. Doing what Barry couldn't do in a dozen terms. And all before the inauguration. Must be those Russkies all the Progs are talking about...
> Fiat to invest $1 billion in Michigan, Ohio plants, create 2,000 jobs


I see Trump's degree of ethical integrity is shared by his followers.... i.e., ZERO. From the story you posted:



> "The announcement, in what the company said was* the second phase of a plan it first made public a year ago,* came days after Ford Motor Company decided to scrap a plan to build a facility in Mexico, instead opting to invest in a plant in Michigan.
> 
> .....
> 
> "*Consistent and combined with previously announced investments*, FCA US is further demonstrating its commitment to strengthening its U.S. manufacturing base, and aligning U.S. capacity to extend the Jeep product lineup," FCA said.
> 
> ....
> 
> The move "is *a continuation of the efforts already underway* to increase production capacity in the U.S.on trucks and SUVs to match demand," the company said, adding that it would help solidify the U.S. as "a global manufacturing hub" for its flagship brands."


*And...*



FeXL said:


> Alibaba job boom: Jack Ma chats with Trump about how to create 1 million US jobs over 5 years


Yeah... let me just bookmark that one and see what's come of that impending "boom"....

The only thing I see that is positive in Trump's (campaign) announcements is a supposed plan to deal with the USA's "infrastructure deficit", which would quickly ramp up construction job numbers and address the woeful state of the country's bridges and such. Has he said anything about that plan since "winning" the election?


----------



## Macfury

Business plans can change any time. FeXL was right to post that the Fiat plans are going through--thanks to President-Elect Trump! Likewise, FeXL posted the story of his discussion with Ma accurately--he made no wild claims about it.



CubaMark said:


> I see Trump's degree of ethical integrity is shared by his followers.... i.e., ZERO. From the story you posted:
> 
> 
> 
> *And...*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... let me just bookmark that one and see what's come of that impending "boom"....
> 
> The only thing I see that is positive in Trump's (campaign) announcements is a supposed plan to deal with the USA's "infrastructure deficit", which would quickly ramp up construction job numbers and address the woeful state of the country's bridges and such. Has he said anything about that plan since "winning" the election?


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's see...

Barry took a trillion dollars & has absolutely zero to show for it. Nada. If Trump does the same, he's no worse. If he does something, anything, one thing with it, he's head & shoulders above Obama.



CubaMark said:


> The only thing I see that is positive in Trump's (campaign) announcements is a supposed plan to deal with the USA's "infrastructure deficit", which would quickly ramp up construction job numbers and address the woeful state of the country's bridges and such. Has he said anything about that plan since "winning" the election?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Further:
> 
> 
> 
> Paddy, We Hardly Knew Ye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nails it.
> 
> 
> 
> You start using the podium as a pulpit? Immediate loss of the award. After the mic's are turned off in mid-sentence & you are given the bum's rush offstage. Or dropped through the secret door right by the podium.
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of the reasons I haven't watched an award show in over a decade. The last thing I need is to be bitched at by yet another millionaire social justice warrior Prog.



So not big on free speech, eh? Especially PROG speech. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> So not big on free speech, eh? Especially PROG speech.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Free speech"???????????????? Bite your tongue. "Long live, Big Brother." Long live The Donald.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> So not big on free speech, eh? Especially PROG speech.


How do you figure that? Telling people that their prog messages are worthless is part of free speech.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How do you figure that?


True. In 10 days, "free speech" will be a thing of the past. Take that 1st Amendment. The Second Amendment will be defended, in part, to the death. As for the First Amendment ............................................ bonne chance.


----------



## FeXL

What?! :yikes:

I jes' luvs me some good, old-fashioned Prog speech. Especially when they put both feet in their mouth & attempt to talk around them. 5%=40%! AGW! The Russkies! Absolutely! Go for it! Amen, brother! 

Matter of fact, when they're busy making fools of themselves, I generally don't even bother interrupting.

However, not only is there is a time & a place, but I don't have to listen if I'm not so inclined. Especially if the cat box needs cleaning, my nose hair needs trimmed, scraping the bugs off the Hawg's windshield, or some other equally pressing issue. 

You know, important stuff...



Freddie_Biff said:


> So not big on free speech, eh? Especially PROG speech.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Barry took a trillion dollars & has absolutely zero to show for it. Nada. If Trump does the same, he's no worse. If he does something, anything, one thing with it, he's head & shoulders above Obama.


Shameful. Just shameful. The Fiat expansion began well over a year ago, as noted in the article *you* cited! At the time that Fiat began to implement the initiative Trump was still an unelectable joke in the eyes of pretty much everyone. Explain to me how Trump can take credit for Obama-era industrial decision-making?

Unbelievable.


----------



## CubaMark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs6UcgiDwg0


----------



## FeXL

From the article:



> Ford's CEO cited demand, rather than the policies of President-elect Donald Trump, who has vowed to impose a "border tax" on companies that send jobs abroad.


If you believe that, you believe that Trump would never get elected.

Oh, wait...

And, tell me exactly why is it that Barry can take credit for "Obama-era" industrial decision-making and not for failed "Obama-era" economics (among a veritable slew of other failed policies), which is blamed on his predecessor?

Jes' askin'...



CubaMark said:


> Explain to me how Trump can take credit for Obama-era industrial decision-making?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL, Obama is not responsible for any bad decision--blame those on George Bush. He is only responsible for the "good news"--of which there is none. It's as though Obama never existed.


----------



## Macfury

I guess Obama would want to take credit for this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ness-optimism-index-surges-by-most-since-1980


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of Barry's failed policies, let's examine a page from his stellar foreign tome.

The Cole's notes version is that part of the Iranian nuclear deal allowed for Iran to produce a limited amount of heavy water. Any overproduction of said water would be purchased by "somebody", as admitting that Iran was in noncompliance would force Barry's administration to clear a spot for more egg on his face. It happened twice in 2016. Wonder of wonders, the US purchased the heavy water from Iran & Iran has suddenly discovered another cash cow, brimming with free money.

Whaddya s'pose they're spending the cash on? Hint: it ain't good will.

Iran’s Getting 116 Metric Tons Of Uranium, With Obama’s Approval



> The Associated Press revealed on Monday that in addition to getting millions of dollars for selling off the heavy water, the Iranians are also getting 116 metric tons of uranium. That’s enough for more than 10 nuclear bombs. Apparently, the Obama administration has approved those terms...


More:

Iran Spends Nuclear Deal Money on Troops, Missiles, Arms for Terrorists



> Reuters reports that, on the contrary, Iran is looking forward to more military spending, including more funding for ballistic missile tests that were supposed to be banned by the nuclear deal.
> 
> Iranian media announced that lawmakers voted for a five-year development plan that “requires government to increase Iran’s defense capabilities as a regional power and preserve the country’s national security and interests by allocating at least five percent of annual budget” to military spending.


Nice.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FeXL, Obama is not responsible for any bad decision--blame those on George Bush. He is only responsible for the "good news"--of which there is none. It's as though Obama never existed.



Dear Editor—

I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Pres. Obama. Papa says, "If you hear it from Macfury, it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a Pres. Obama?

Virginia O'Hanlon
115 West Ninety Fifth Street
ehMacLand

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Pres. Obama. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Pres. Obama! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence.

We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Pres. Obama! You might as well not believe in Bernie Sanders. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the election booths on Election Day to catch people voting for Clinton, but even if you did not see a Clinton victory what would that prove? Nobody expected Trump to win, but that is no sign that there is no Pres. Obama. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see liberal Republicans dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No President Obama! Thank God he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> FeXL, Obama is not responsible for any bad decision--blame those on George Bush.


That's the thing that puzzles the hell out of me. Earlier, there was some conversation about how bad the economic condition of the US was as Barry took the reins and that none of it was his fault, blah, blah, blah. Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter.

My position now, as it was then, is that it's not what you inherit, it's what you do with it. The past 8 years has been the slowest American economic recovery since WW II. He has failed miserably in getting the US economy back up to speed.

I worked for a trailer manufacturing company for about 2-1/2 years back at the turn of the century. I was head of shipping/receiving & one of my first tasks was to take care of a huge backlog of receivers that had been ignored by my predecessor. Basically, that meant I had to track down materials that had been received over the course of months previous to my hiring, much of which had already been manufactured into finished product, check them off of purchase orders, enter them all into the computer & batch them to accounts payable so the vendors could be paid. It was an arduous & frustrating 12 week task that even surprised the company as they had no idea how much of a backlog had been created. The CFO laughed, noting that I had created a cashflow problem for the business.

Long story longer, if I had sat back in my office chair & said, "Not my problem. I didn't create it..." I would have been gone on day two. Why should politicians be held to a different standard?

Instead of p!$$ing & moaning about the bad hand you've just been dealt and blaming everybody else for the sorry state of things, man up, fix it & move on.

Can't understand why that's so difficult for some to comprehend.


----------



## FeXL

Dearest Virginia...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Streep's speech.

Kellyanne Conway: I Wish Meryl Streep Was As Concerned About Disabled Boy Tortured On Facebook Live



> KELLYANNE CONWAY: I'm glad Meryl Streep has such a passion for the disabled because I didn't hear her weigh in or I didn't even hear her use her platform last night, Ainsley, to give the shoutout to the mentally challenged boy who last week was tortured live on Facebook for half an hour, by four young African-American adults who were screaming racial and anti-Trump expletives and forcing him to put his head in toilet water.


Yep. Curious, idn't it? Funny nobody from the left has mentioned that little event from last week, either...

Related:

Sorry, Meryl but that hypocritical anti-Trump rant was easily the worst performance of your career (apart from that time you gave a child rapist a standing ovation)



> Last night, Streep received a Lifetime Achievement award at the Golden Globes, and chose the moment to launch a very personal attack on Donald Trump.
> 
> She began by saying that Hollywood, foreigners and the press are ‘the most vilified segments of American society right now’.
> 
> At which point the cameras panned out to hundreds of the richest, most privileged people in American society sitting in the audience in their $10,000 tuxedos and $20,000 dresses, loudly cheering this acknowledgement of their dreadful victimhood.
> 
> She then said that if all the ‘outsiders and foreigners’ were kicked out of Hollywood, ‘you’ll have nothing to watch but football and mixed martial arts, which are not the arts.’
> 
> Wow.
> 
> *I haven’t heard such elitist snobbery since Hillary Clinton branded Trump supporters ‘a basket of deplorables’.*


My bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dearest Virginia...


:lmao: Well, I am waiting for Macfury to say it is so. I trust him ............. not the NY Daily News. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Why am I not surprised he's Dem...

Pennsylvania politician 'groped his disabled 103-year-old mother-in-law's breasts during visits to her nursing home'



> A long-serving Pennsylvania politician has been accused of groping his disabled mother-in-law during visits to her nursing home.
> 
> William Spingler was reported to police by staff at Wayne Nursing Home after being allegedly caught massaging the 103-year-old's breasts on three separate occasions.


More:



> In the complaint, police described his mother-in-law as 'unable to defend herself'.
> 
> *'(She) is 103 years old and is diagnosed with dementia, unspecified lack of coordination, muscle weakness, anxiety disorder and difficulty walking.
> 
> '(She) is physically and mentally unable to defend herself and is completely dependent upon staff to provide all activities of daily living care 24/7.'*


My bold.

I cannot describe the revulsion I feel for...scum...like this.


----------



## FeXL

Sounds like citizen material to me!

Mexican man charged with rape had 19 deportations, removals



> A Mexican man accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus that travelled through Kansas had been deported 10 times and voluntarily removed from the U.S. another nine times since 2003, records obtained by The Associated Press show.


And, here's the understatement of the decade:



> Moran told the AP in an email that the immigration system is “broken.”


Ya think?!


----------



## Dr.G.

Did a 1950s TV Episode Feature a Character Named Trump Who Offered to Build a Protective Wall? : snopes.com

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder who paid for the wall?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Be Presidential. Fare thee well, Barry.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Did a 1950s TV Episode Feature a Character Named Trump Who Offered to Build a Protective Wall? : snopes.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder who paid for the wall?



Wow. Normally I'd say truth is stranger than fiction, but in this case they appear to be the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Let us be clear: "sunny ways" and "golden showers" are not the same thing. 

(And to my alt-right mainstream media hating friends, you should like the fact this comes from a non-mainstream source).

#goldenshowers

http://usuncut.com/politics/twitter-goldenshowers-hilarious/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

You got fooled by this lame practical joke as easily as the MSM. 4CHAN fed out this line to pundit Rick Wilson in October to see if any rubes would pick it up.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Let us be clear: "sunny ways" and "golden showers" are not the same thing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You got fooled by this lame practical joke as easily as the MSM. 4CHAN fed out this line to pundit Rick Wilson in October to see if any rubes would pick it up.



No more fake than the stuff Trump spews forth daily. He may be pee-OTUS, but over half the country still has no respect for him. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not unless they take away his account.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Be Presidential. Fare thee well, Barry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An excellent speech. He is a true orator. He shall be missed by millions. :-(


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Wow. Normally I'd say truth is stranger than fiction, but in this case they appear to be the same thing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All too true, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Why Obama Will Go Down as One of the Greatest Presidents of All Time | GQ

So very true for millions of Americans. I am glad I was able to vote for Pres. Obama in both 2008 and 2012. He shall be missed.


----------



## Macfury

More support than Rachel Notley, then!



Freddie_Biff said:


> No more fake than the stuff Trump spews forth daily. He may be pee-OTUS, but over half the country still has no respect for him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> More support than Rachel Notley, then!















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> More support than Rachel Notley, then!


Yep, Red Rachel is has only 25% support and even Turdreau had only 37% support in the last election, both much poorer showings than Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Wrong thread much? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Yep, over-rated. 

Four words: _Ricki and the Flash._


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Wrong thread much?


Sorry you cannot grasp the concept that Trump is immensely more popular than either the PM or our premier. Correct comparison in the correct thread.


----------



## Rps

Sinc, I agree. The great irony of politics is if you are love or hated it amounts to the same thing.......all that is required is that they remember your name at voting time. One small up turn and all is forgiven.


----------



## FeXL

Not good.

Report: Monica Crowley Alleged to Have Plagiarized Her Ph.D. Dissertation; HarperCollins Pulls What the (Bleep) Just Happened? After CNN Documents Numerous Examples of Lifted Text



> This is bad.
> 
> I was going to give Ms. Monica the benefit of the doubt, but now another report's coming out that she allegedly plagiarized parts of her dissertation as well.


----------



## FeXL

Another FBI document dump.

Apparently there is (was?) a backup hard drive, after all...

The Mysterious FBI Sunday Document Dump #5 and The “Missing” Clinton Seagate Hard Drive…



> *There it is.* The mysterious missing Seagate Hard Drive appears; along with dozens of more exhibits of computers, servers, lap tops, thumb drives and portable storage devices gathered by the FBI and held as physical evidence.
> 
> The FBI has these devices in their custody. They are not _“missing“_.


Emphasis from the link.

_Very_ interesting.

It's not too late to toss her butt in jail...


----------



## FeXL

Good. Hit 'im where it hurts. Show President 4-Putt that in the real world, there are consequences to actions...

Obama may get rejected from golf club over Israel policies



> President Obama’s clashes with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may cost him a membership at an exclusive golf club, sources said.
> 
> Obama is looking to join the elite Woodmont Country Club in Maryland once he becomes a private citizen.
> 
> But members of the mostly Jewish club are at each other’s throats over whether to accept the golf-loving president, with many saying he deserves to be snubbed for not blocking an anti-Israel vote at the United Nations, according to the sources.


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the problem. Oh, & welcome to the real world. Don't worry, that unemployment rate will be adjusted to 0.0% for Barry's legacy...

Obama staffers can’t find work in Trump’s DC: ‘There are no jobs’



> “It feels like there are just thousands of us trying to find a job, and there are no jobs,” longtime Clinton aide Mira Patel, who worked for Clinton in her Senate, State Department and 2016 campaign offices, told the outlet.
> 
> Following Trump’s surprise victory Nov. 8, Democratic operatives no longer have some 4,000 presidentially appointed jobs for which to apply when the billionaire businessman takes the oath of office Jan. 20.
> 
> *The Democratic workers who were expecting to see a Clinton White House are reportedly finding the transition especially difficult*


M'bold.

Everybody, it's OK. We have participation trophies for all of you...


----------



## CubaMark

Trump press conference live now (10:20am Wednesday)

So far he's had odd musical interventions prior to coming up onto stage....
...he's insulted the USA's own intelligence agencies....
...he lambasts the Pharmaceutical industry (not for ridiculous prices, but because they don't manufacture drugs in the USA - yep, that labour-intensive process of sealing pills into plastic packs is an important issue for The Donald)...

What is so striking about this guy is his limited vocabulary and odd manner of speaking. And we thought Bush was inarticulate....

"...put that *crap* together...." How very Presidential of him....


----------



## FeXL

He should have. Their performance for some time has been...deplorable! 



CubaMark said:


> ...he's insulted the USA's own intelligence agencies....


----------



## FeXL

So, let's have a look at Barry's legacy, shall we?

18 Major Scandals in Obama’s ‘Scandal-Free’ Presidency



> President Obama and his mouthpieces have embarked on a bizarre scheme to hypnotize America into forgetting the many scandals of his presidency. They seem to think that intoning “this administration hasn’t had a scandal” over and over again will make history disappear. It’s the lamest Jedi Mind Trick ever, and is being pushed on people who know Star Wars is just a movie.
> 
> Here’s a short list of the many scandals Team Obama thinks it can make America forget:


Jimmy Carter sends his thanks...


----------



## FeXL

He wasn't elected on his command of the Queen's English.

He was elected because of his in your face, no holds barred, no BS attitude. If that's all the criticism you can muster, Trump ain't doing too bad.

'Sides, have you hear The Hairdo speak? If that's uh, er, ummm the mark of a sound politician, Justin should have stayed a substitute drama teacher. Or ski instructor. Or just remained in his crib with his little silver spoon in his mouth...



CubaMark said:


> What is so striking about this guy is his limited vocabulary and odd manner of speaking. And we thought Bush was inarticulate....
> 
> "...put that *crap* together...." How very Presidential of him....


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> He wasn't elected on his command of the Queen's English.


He's also ensuring that everyone understands the words he uses. It's one of the tactics that helped him to win the election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the hits just keep on coming.



















http://www.palmerreport.com/news/wa...ak-donald-trump-russia-blackmail-scandal/804/


----------



## FeXL

Good the EPA is high on the "Drain the Swamp" list.

EPA targets key ingredient in pizza, bread in latest eleventh-hour rule



> The Environmental Protection Agency is targeting a key ingredient for making pizza and bread in its latest last-minute regulation before President Obama steps down.
> 
> The proposed regulation published Wednesday would make the emissions standards for industrial yeast makers much more strict.
> 
> *The EPA said beer, champagne and wine makers, all of whom use some form of yeast, are safe for now.*


M'bold...


----------



## Macfury

Leading from behind are you, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And the hits just keep on coming.


----------



## macintosh doctor

CNN receives instant karma and just desserts - i love it. 
Trump shuts down CNN reporter - CNN Video

If they want to be part of the party - CNN will have to begin reporting like a real agency very soon.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Leading from behind are you, Freddie?


Just like his idol...


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Leading from behind are you, Freddie?


It is always a good thing to see Trump shutting down the fear mongers who insist on trying to control the globe by spreading falsehoods and fear to keep us all in line.

If Trump accomplishes nothing else, I wish him good luck on ending the totalitarian approach the US intelligence community uses on us, as well as its own citizens, to foster the reports of lies and misinformation they issue daily to achieve their own devious ends.

Every other president before him has swallowed their briefings hook, line and sinker. Not so this one and that may very well make the world a safer place.


----------



## SINC

Speaking of different views on Obamas last speech . . .

DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT: Obama Says Goodbye With 15 Big Fibs | Daily Wire


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump's trainwreck press conference ushers in a clueless presidency*
_It’s safe to say that the Trump administration is already in shambles – and it hasn’t even started yet
_

Donald Trump is not what he seems. The supposed master of media manipulation stumbled so often at his first press conference, it is hard to recall why anyone thought the TV star was good at this stuff in the first place.

* * *​
Judging from Wednesday’s trainwreck press conference – the first since July – Trump and his handlers have no self-discipline and no strategy to deal with the Russian crisis that has been simmering for the best part of the past year.

They also have no sense of irony or, apparently, reality. The press conference opened with Sean Spicer, the incoming press secretary, condemning the media coverage of Trump’s compromised relationship with Russia as “frankly outrageous and highly irresponsible”.

It seems churlish to have to recall this tweet from Trump in the closing phase of the recent election: “Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a US citizen so she could use her in the debate?”

This kind of thing makes it hard for the new White House to pass the laugh test, never mind the smell test. It’s heartwarming to know that the president-elect is so concerned about how fake news can destroy real people. If only he had the self-awareness and self-discipline to live by his own words.

* * *​
Trump will never learn from his mistakes. Suspecting the recent Russia revelations are the work of the intelligence agencies, Trump continues to wage war on his own spies. He could offer no proof of such a betrayal but continued to trash the CIA in public all the same.

This kind of struggle does not end well for sitting presidents, as Richard Nixon discovered. Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein’s biggest source, known as Deep Throat, was in fact the deputy director of the FBI.

You might think that the main purpose of Trump’s press conference was to squash the Russia dossier news. But no – that was just the first few minutes of the affair.

After a rambling introduction about carmakers, veterans affairs and his inaugural celebrations, Trump finally arrived at his desired topic of the day: the non-resolution of the conflicts of interest that will embroil his presidency from now until he leaves the Oval Office.

A table stacked with yellow envelopes was supposed to represent all the documents Trump signed to disentangle his business affairs from his presidency, by passing management control of the Trump Organization to his sons.

Rather like a suitcase supposedly full of cash, it was hard to tell if any of the documents were real without, you know, releasing them to the press like his tax returns. Instead, we were forced to listen to his personal attorney assuring us there was a wall being built between the presidency and the Trump Organization.

* * *​
If this is Trump’s playbook for crisis management, his political opponents should sit back and enjoy the show. Like a dog that returns to his vomit, this president-elect just can’t help himself. Let the follies begin.​
(The Guardian UK)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Trump's trainwreck press conference ushers in a clueless presidency*
> 
> _It’s safe to say that the Trump administration is already in shambles – and it hasn’t even started yet
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump is not what he seems. The supposed master of media manipulation stumbled so often at his first press conference, it is hard to recall why anyone thought the TV star was good at this stuff in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> Judging from Wednesday’s trainwreck press conference – the first since July – Trump and his handlers have no self-discipline and no strategy to deal with the Russian crisis that has been simmering for the best part of the past year.
> 
> 
> 
> They also have no sense of irony or, apparently, reality. The press conference opened with Sean Spicer, the incoming press secretary, condemning the media coverage of Trump’s compromised relationship with Russia as “frankly outrageous and highly irresponsible”.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems churlish to have to recall this tweet from Trump in the closing phase of the recent election: “Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a US citizen so she could use her in the debate?”
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of thing makes it hard for the new White House to pass the laugh test, never mind the smell test. It’s heartwarming to know that the president-elect is so concerned about how fake news can destroy real people. If only he had the self-awareness and self-discipline to live by his own words.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> Trump will never learn from his mistakes. Suspecting the recent Russia revelations are the work of the intelligence agencies, Trump continues to wage war on his own spies. He could offer no proof of such a betrayal but continued to trash the CIA in public all the same.
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of struggle does not end well for sitting presidents, as Richard Nixon discovered. Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein’s biggest source, known as Deep Throat, was in fact the deputy director of the FBI.
> 
> 
> 
> You might think that the main purpose of Trump’s press conference was to squash the Russia dossier news. But no – that was just the first few minutes of the affair.
> 
> 
> 
> After a rambling introduction about carmakers, veterans affairs and his inaugural celebrations, Trump finally arrived at his desired topic of the day: the non-resolution of the conflicts of interest that will embroil his presidency from now until he leaves the Oval Office.
> 
> 
> 
> A table stacked with yellow envelopes was supposed to represent all the documents Trump signed to disentangle his business affairs from his presidency, by passing management control of the Trump Organization to his sons.
> 
> 
> 
> Rather like a suitcase supposedly full of cash, it was hard to tell if any of the documents were real without, you know, releasing them to the press like his tax returns. Instead, we were forced to listen to his personal attorney assuring us there was a wall being built between the presidency and the Trump Organization.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> If this is Trump’s playbook for crisis management, his political opponents should sit back and enjoy the show. Like a dog that returns to his vomit, this president-elect just can’t help himself. Let the follies begin.​
> 
> 
> (The Guardian UK)



Incredible to me how some people idolize him. Including people on these boards. Anyone with a functioning brain should be able to see right through his charade. And it will be interesting observing the wall between him and his sons as they run the family business on his behalf with absolutely no direction or influence from him. That will make family dinners awkward. 


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----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Judging from Wednesday’s trainwreck press conference – the first since July – Trump and his handlers have no self-discipline and no strategy to deal with the Russian crisis that has been simmering for the best part of the past year.


_The Guardian_ is a known sinkhole of prog sycophants. They're so out of touch they don't realize there is no "Russian crisis." The purpose of the press conference was anything but dealing with their false flag issue, but apparently they're too blinded by their own self-importance to realize it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> _The Guardian_ is a known sinkhole of prog sycophants.


x1000...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> _The Guardian_ is a known sinkhole of prog sycophants. They're so out of touch they don't realize there is no "Russian crisis." The purpose of the press conference was anything but dealing with their false flag issue, but apparently they're too blinded by their own self-importance to realize it.















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

True or false: there was a character named Trump in a 1950's TV episode who promised he could build a wall to save a town from the end of the world. 

http://www.snopes.com/trackdown-trump-character-wall


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----------



## Dr.G.

Very true.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Very true.



No! Not you! You're fake news! Don't interrupt! That's rude!


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No! Not you! You're fake news! Don't interrupt! That's rude!


Hilarious to see US progs now decrying "fake news" after their creation got turned on them!


----------



## Macfury

This is bad. Trump "golden shower" allegations proved to be true!!!





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is bad. Trump "golden shower" allegations proved to be true!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Better to be pissed off than pissed on, I always say. 


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## Freddie_Biff

https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/...allenged-him-rewards-breitbart-sucking/214981


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----------



## CubaMark

> "All the dress shops are sold out in Washington. It's hard to find a great dress for this inauguration."
> -- Donald Trump





> "We have 200 dresses, if not more, in stock."
> -- Mae Shipe, owner of Mae's Dress Boutique





> "There's never been less demand for inaugural ball gowns in my 38 years."
> -- Peter Marx, owner of Saks Jandel


(Doonesbury)


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Hilarious to see US progs now decrying "fake news" after their creation got turned on them!


Related:

Leftist Media, Having Invented 'Fake News,' Now Crying Uncle



> Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't fit quite so well, isn't it? As part of its War on Trump, the establishment media consistently conflates two only superficially related, but contextually quite different or actually unrelated things -- "Russian hacking" and "changed the vote for Trump" is a good example. But conservatives are wise to their game, and so they gave "fake news" right back to them with both barrels. Of course, it's an easy case to make when you have a former purveyor of fabulism like Dan Rather now teaching journalism ethics.
> 
> So, naturally, the Post writer blames the current non-utility of the "fake news" slam on... the Right:
> 
> _“The speed with which the term became polarized and in fact a rhetorical weapon illustrates how efficient the conservative media machine has become,” said George Washington University professor Nikki Usher.
> 
> As Jeremy Peters wrote in the New York Times: “Conservative cable and radio personalities, top Republicans and even Mr. Trump himself . . . *have appropriated the term and turned it against any news they see as hostile to their agenda.*”_​


M'bold.

'Cause that's definitely _not_ what the Progs were doing...


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/...llegations against him. George Soros says so.


----------



## FeXL

No kidding!

The hidden message in Obama's 'farewell' speech



> Second, Obama chose the moment and the setting (it’s where he gave his victory speech on Election Night 2012) to *bask in idolatry* rather than say much that will stand the test of time.


Yeah, my bold.

Sounds just like the last 8 years. Why screw with a proven recipe?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Incredible to me how some people idolize him.


Whom? Name one. And provide examples of said idolatry.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Including people on these boards.


Anyone with a functioning brain would see that he is head, shoulders & arse above the opposition candidate, warts & all. Who will never be POTUS, it gives me great pleasure to say... 

Read somewhere she is considering running for mayor of New York in a few years.. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anyone with a functioning brain...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> (Doonesbury)


This is because conservatives are better looking than progs:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-looking-research-says/?utm_term=.3bbedf6f5d4

Trump is referring to dress shops offering dresses for good looking people. The other shops have a surplus of gowns because the progs wont be attending the inauguration.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This is because conservatives are better looking than progs:


Psssst: I bin called a lotta things in my life. Purdy ain't never been one o' them...


----------



## Macfury

Here's the author of that "golden shower" hoax that Freddie was so hot on, laughing his ass off at gullible progs:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep--he should take their questions first because they make the most unfounded allegations against him. George Soros says so.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 


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----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump press conference: Folders 'containing his business plan' appear to be blank | The Independent

Oops. Well, you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and all of those who voted for Trump all of the time.


----------



## Dr.G.

Marco Rubio's chance for revenge - CNNPolitics.com

I think that Sen. Rubio just threw his hat into the ring of possible presidential candidates for 2020. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump press conference: Folders 'containing his business plan' appear to be blank | The Independent
> 
> 
> 
> Oops. Well, you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and all of those who voted for Trump all of the time.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 


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----------



## Macfury

_The Independent_ seems to have fooled _you_, Dr. G. The article made no claim at all about the papers being blank--only saying reporters did not see them.



Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump press conference: Folders 'containing his business plan' appear to be blank | The Independent
> 
> Oops. Well, you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, and all of those who voted for Trump all of the time.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Donald Trump press conference: Folders 'containing his business plan' appear to be blank


Sounds like Barry already! Very presidential!!!


----------



## FeXL

This makes me smile almost as much as the fact that Bill's Wife will never be president...

Feelgood Story of the Day: Soros Lost Nearly $1 Billion in Weeks After Trump Election



> _Billionaire hedge-fund manager George Soros lost nearly $1 billion as a result of the stock-market rally spurred by Donald Trump’s surprise presidential election._​


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guess he should not have used this tactic in one of the chapters in "The Art of the Deal".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> _The Independent_ seems to have fooled _you_, Dr. G. The article made no claim at all about the papers being blank--only saying reporters did not see them.


No, but the Washington Post, NY Times and LA Times had reporters who confirmed this story. Still, they are all part of the "fake news" gang, so best to go with a British story. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Sounds like Barry already! Very presidential!!!


Yes, Pres. Obama was VERY presidential when it came to his public speeches. His level of oration shall be missed by many/most Americans. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, but the Washington Post, NY Times and LA Times had reporters who confirmed this story. Still, they are all part of the "fake news" gang, so best to go with a British story. Paix, mon ami.


Yes, they confirmed they could not see inside the folders.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, Pres. Obama was VERY presidential when it came to his public speeches. His level of oration shall be missed by many/most Americans. Paix, mon ami.


I'll miss that stammer. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out Barry!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, they confirmed they could not see inside the folders.


Well, they were able to see some of the folder contents and it was all blank.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, they were able to see some of the folder contents and it was all blank.


_Washington Post_ and _New York Times _both used an Associated Press story:



> The campaign wouldn’t let reporters look at them. Trump never got around to discussing the documents. Some of the folders weren’t labeled.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> _Washington Post_ and _New York Times _both used an Associated Press story:


No, they saw these items on their own. Three sources ............ all blanks. Sorry.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, they saw these items on their own. Three sources ............ all blanks. Sorry.


Show me the link.


----------



## SINC

A Russian journalist has some advice for MSM in the US. Interesting indeed.

A Russian Journalist writes “A message to my doomed colleagues in the American media” | Skepchick



> Congratulations, US media! You’ve just covered your first press conference of an authoritarian leader with a massive ego and a deep disdain for your trade and everything you hold dear. We in Russia have been doing it for 12 years now—with a short hiatus when our leader wasn’t technically our leader—so quite a few things during Donald Trump’s press conference rang my bells. Not just mine, in fact?—?read this excellent round-up in The Moscow Times.
> 
> Vladimir Putin’s annual pressers are supposed to be the media event of the year. They are normally held in late December, around Western Christmas time (we Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas two weeks later and it’s not a big deal, unlike New Year’s Eve). Which probably explains why Putin’s pressers don’t get much coverage outside of Russia, except in a relatively narrow niche of Russia-watchers. Putin’s pressers are televised live across all Russian TV channels, attended by all kinds of media—federal news agencies, small local publications and foreign reporters based in Moscow—and are supposed to overshadow every other event in Russia or abroad.
> 
> These things are carefully choreographed, typically last no less than four hours, and Putin always comes off as an omniscient and benevolent leader tending to a flock of unruly but adoring children. Given that Putin is probably a role model for Trump, it’s no surprise that he’s apparently taking a page from Putin’s playbook. I have some observations to share with my American colleagues. You’re in this for at least another four years, and you’ll be dealing with things Russian journalists have endured for almost two decades now. I’m talking about Putin here, but see if you can apply any of the below to your own leader.
> 
> • Welcome to the era of bull****.
> 
> Facts don’t matter. You can’t hurt this man with facts or reason. He’ll always outmaneuver you. He’ll always wriggle out of whatever carefully crafted verbal trap you lay for him. Whatever he says, you won’t be able to challenge him. He always comes with a bag of meaningless factoids (Putin likes to drown questions he doesn’t like in dull, unverifiable stats, figures and percentages), platitudes, false moral equivalences and straight, undiluted bull****. He knows it’s a one-way communication, not an interview. You can’t follow up on your questions or challenge him. So he can throw whatever he wants at you in response, and you’ll just have to swallow it. Some journalists will try to preempt this by asking two questions at once, against the protests of their colleagues also vying for attention, but that also won’t work: he’ll answer the one he thinks is easier, and ignore the other. Others will use this opportunity to go on a long, rambling statement vaguely disguised as a question, but that’s also bad tactics. Non-questions invite non-answers. He’ll mock you for your nervous stuttering and if you’re raising a serious issue, respond with a vague, non-committal statement (“Mr President, what about these horrible human rights abuses in our country?” “Thank you, Miss. This is indeed a very serious issue. Everybody must respect the law. And by the way, don’t human rights abuses happen in other countries as well? Next question please”).
> 
> But your colleagues are there to help you, right? After all, you’re all in this together?
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> • Don’t expect any camaraderie
> 
> These people are not your partners or brothers in arms. They are your rivals in a fiercely competitive, crashing market and right now the only currency in this market is whatever that man on the stage says. Whoever is lucky to ask a question and be the first to transmit the answer to the outside world wins. Don’t expect any solidarity or support from them. If your question is stonewalled/mocked down/ignored, don’t expect a rival publication to pick up the banner and follow up on your behalf. It’s in this man’s best interests to pit you against each other, fighting over artificial scarcities like room space, mic time or, of course, his attention. It’s getting especially absurd because some—increasingly many—reporters will now come with large, bright placards aimed at attracting the president’s attention to names of their regions or specific issues. This is what it looks like:
> 
> Also, some people in the room aren’t really there to ask questions.
> 
> • Expect a lot of sycophancy and soft balls from your “colleagues”
> 
> A mainstay of Putin’s press conferences is, of course, softball questions. Which also happen to be Putin’s favorites. Mr President, is there love in your heart? Who you will be celebrating New Year’s Eve with? What’s your favorite food? “Questions” of this sort, sure to melt Putin’s heart, typically come from women working for small regional publications. A subtype of this is also statements-as-questions, but from people who really love the man on the stage and will bob their head and look at the stage adoringly and say something to the tune of “Mr President, do you agree that a lot of media are treating you unfairly?”
> 
> Another type of softball questions is hyperlocal issues that a president isn’t even supposed to be dealing with. Mr President, our road is full of potholes and local authorities aren’t doing anything about it. Mr President, our tap is leaking. Mr President, how about a chess club in our village. This is a real opportunity for him to shine. He will scold the local authorities and order to have a new road built. All of this, of course, has been choreographed well in advance.
> 
> Also, some of these people really love him and will meet his every answer with enthusiastic applause. There will be people from publications that exist for no other reason than heaping fawning praise on him and attacking his enemies. But there will also be one token critic who will be allowed to ask a “sharp” question, only to be drowned in a copious amount of bull****, and the man on the stage will always be the winner (“See? I respect the media and free speech”).
> 
> • You’re always losing
> 
> This man owns you. He understands perfectly well that he is the news. You can’t ignore him. You’re always playing by his rules—which he can change at any time without any notice. You can’t—in Putin’s case—campaign to vote him out of office. Your readership is dwindling because ad budgets are shrinking—while his ratings are soaring, and if you want to keep your publication afloat, you’ll have to report on everything that man says as soon as he says it, without any analysis or fact-checking, because 1) his fans will not care if he lies to their faces; 2) while you’re busy picking his lies apart, he’ll spit out another mountain of bull**** and you’ll be buried under it.
> 
> I could go on and on, but I think at this point you see where this is heading. See if any of this rings any bells if you covered Trump’s presser or watched it online.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, Pres. Obama was VERY presidential when it came to his public speeches. His level of oration shall be missed by many/most Americans. Paix, mon ami.


Yep. I've never seen anybody parse a teleprompter quite like Barry. His self-idolatry was beyond compare...


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> A Russian journalist has some advice for MSM in the US. Interesting indeed.


Good read. Unfortunately, it'll zip clear over the heads of Prog American journalists. 

But I repeat myself...


----------



## FeXL

Good call. Let's try to focus on _real_ threats...

CIA Director Nominee: ‘I Prefer Not to Get into the Details of Climate Debate and Science’



> CIA director nominee Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-Kan.) said Thursday that he would rather not wade into the climate change debate during his confirmation hearing before the Senate Select Intelligence Committee.
> 
> “I frankly as a director of CIA would prefer today not to get into the details of climate debate and science. It seems my role is gonna be so different and unique from that. It is gonna be to work alongside warriors keeping Americans safe, and so I stand by the things that I’ve said previously with respect to that issue,” Pompeo said.


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's take a look at the Wunnerful Orator's sayonara, shall we?

Divisive, as always.

Obama: 'White Americans' Must Acknowledge 'Slavery and Jim Crow'



> Barack Obama took one last parting shot at "white people" during his farewell address on Tuesday.
> 
> He dedicated around a third of his speech to addressing the deterioration of race relations, though he insisted everything is just fine.
> 
> As every other sentence was a lie, I've broken it down piece by piece.


Well, that sets the tone for the article.

Good read.


----------



## FeXL

Obama Has Passed Record Number Of Midnight Regulations Since Election Day



> _President Obama has issued 145 “midnight” regulations with a cost of more than $21 billion since the election of Donald Trump, the most by a lame-duck president in a generation, a study has found.
> The conservative American Action Forum said Thursday that Mr. Obama’s rules, issued from Nov. 8 through Dec. 31, include 31 “economically significant” regulations with a cost of at least $100 million each._​


More:



> I’d almost rather he’d pull a Clinton and trash the place and steal the “T’s” off the White House computer keyboards as he left. At least that didn’t cost us upwards of $20 billion.


<snort>

Related:

Obama unleashes 3,853 regs, 18 for every law, record 97,110 pages of red tape



> President Obama's lame duck administration poured on thousands more new regulations in 2016 at a rate of 18 for every new law passed, according to a Friday analysis of his team's expansion of federal authority.
> 
> While Congress passed just 211 laws, Obama's team issued an accompanying 3,852 new federal regulations, some costing billions of dollars.


That's why they call it a "bureaucracy".


----------



## FeXL

Here's a proper send off.

Good Riddance…



> *It is seldom that we know that a new year will start well. Or, to put it more circumspectly, lest the jealous gods take umbrage, that one hugely pleasant event will occur in January – on the 20th to be precise. No, I am not referring to Donald Trump’s inauguration (though that is hugely pleasant too) but to Barack Obama’s exit.*


Links' bold.

In partial sum:



> We have a petty, vainglorious, failed president going out of office with his version of a scorched-earth policy. There is no grace in it. His wife was equally graceless when superciliously expounding to Oprah Winfrey that “now we’re feeling what not having hope feels like”.


Yep.

Excellent read...


----------



## FeXL

Drain the swamp!

EPA To Alaskans In Sub-Zero Temps: Stop Burning Wood To Keep Warm



> In Jack London’s famous short story, “To Build A Fire,” a man freezes to death because he underestimates the cold in America’s far north and cannot build a proper fire. The unnamed man—a chechaquo, what Alaska natives call newcomers—is accompanied by a wolf-dog that knows the danger of the cold and is wholly indifferent to the fate of the man. “This man did not know cold. Possibly, all the generations of his ancestry had been ignorant of cold, of real cold, of cold 107 degrees below freezing point. But the dog knew; all its ancestry knew, and it had inherited the knowledge.”
> 
> If only the bureaucrats in Washington DC knew what the wolf-dog knew. But alas, now comes the federal government to tell the inhabitants of Alaska’s interior that, really, they should not be building fires to keep themselves warm during the winter. The New York Times reports the Environmental Protection Agency could soon declare the Alaskan cities of Fairbanks and North Pole, which have a combined population of about 100,000, in “serious” noncompliance of the Clean Air Act early next year.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This was a comment from the comment section I just read on a second source confirming the contents of the Trump dossier. I don't know if it's true or not, but it certainly seems plausible and helps connect the dots between Trump and Russia. 



> I am sharing this to everyone.
> Here are some facts : Decide for yourselves
> 
> 1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns)
> 
> 2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.
> 
> 3) Other companies that have borrowed from Blackstone have claimed that owing money to them is like owing to the Russian mob and while you owe them, they own you for many favors.
> 
> 4) The Russian economy is badly faltering under the weight of its over-dependence on raw materials which as you know have plummeted in the last 2 years leaving the Russian economy scrambling to pay its debts.
> 
> 5) Russia has an impetus to influence our election to ensure the per barrel oil prices are above $65 ( they are currently hovering around $50)
> 
> 6) Russia can't affordably get at 80% of its oil reserves and reduce its per barrel cost to compete with America at $45 or Saudi Arabia at $39. With Iranian sanctions being lifted Russia will find another inexpensive competitor increasing production and pushing Russia further down the list of suppliers.
> 
> As for Iranian sanctions, the 6 countries lifting them allowing Iran to collect on the billions it is owed for pumping oil but not being paid for it. These billions Iran can only get if the Iranian nuclear deal is signed. Trump spoke of ending the deals which would cause oil sales sanctions to be reimposed, which would make Russian oil more competitive.
> 
> 7) Rex Tillerson (Trump's pick for Secretary of State) is the head of ExxonMobil, which is in possession of patented technology that could help Putin extract 45% more oil at a significant cost savings to Russia, helping Putin put money in the Russian coffers to help reconstitute its military and finally afford to mass produce the new and improved systems that it had invented before the Russian economy had slowed so much.
> 
> 8) Putin cannot get access to these new cost saving technologies OR outside oil field development money, due to US sanctions on Russia, because of its involvement in Ukrainian civil war.
> 
> 9) Look for Trump to end sanctions on Russia and to back out of the Iranian nuclear deal, to help Russia rebuild its economy, strengthen Putin and make Tillerson and Trump even richer, thus allowing Trump to satisfy his creditors at Blackstone.
> 
> 10) With Trump's fabricated hatred of NATO and the U.N., the Russian military reconstituted, the threat to the Baltic states is real. Russia retaking their access to the Baltic Sea from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and threatening the shipping of millions of cubic feet of natural gas to lower Europe from Scandinavia, allowing Russia to make a good case for its oil and gas being piped into eastern Europe.
> 
> Sources: Time Magazine, NY Times, The Atlantic, The Guardian UK.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Just like the MSM: "I don't have a bloody clue if this is true, or even the curiosity to research it, but since it stinks I will post it."


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Just like the MSM: "I don't have a bloody clue if this is true, or even the curiosity to research it, but since it stinks I will post it."


Once a Prog, always a Prog.

And, I question the veracity of #9...

It only makes sense to pull out of the Iranian nuclear deal. The last thing this planet needs is a bunch of Western hating kooks with nukes. Everything else is noise...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just like the MSM: "I don't have a bloody clue if this is true, or even the curiosity to research it, but since it stinks I will post it."



Just like Trump. He always talks out of his ass. He set a new bar for lowered expectations. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just like Trump. He always talks out of his ass. He set a new bar for lowered expectations.


Geez, sounds like some Alberta NDP progs.


----------



## Macfury

Lazily posting crap you know nothing about is the epitome of ass talk. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just like Trump. He always talks out of his ass. He set a new bar for lowered expectations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Lazily posting crap you know nothing about is the epitome of ass talk.



It certainly is. But we accept you anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Add a referee meme to that zinger and you might have something.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the hits just keep coming. 



> Senate intelligence committee to question Trump team on Russia links
> 
> Lauren Gambino and Julian Borger in Washington, and Spencer Ackerman in New York Saturday 14 January 2017 00.01 GMT
> Donald Trump speaks with reporters at Trump Tower before the Senate intelligence committee announced its inquiry into the ‘scope of Russian intelligence activities impacting the United States’.
> Donald Trump speaks with reporters at Trump Tower before the Senate intelligence committee announced its inquiry into the ‘scope of Russian intelligence activities impacting the United States’. Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP
> The Senate intelligence committee plans to interview senior figures in the incoming Trump administration as part of its inquiry into alleged Russian hacking during the US election, its chairman said on Friday.
> 
> The announcement, one week before Donald Trump assumes the presidency, comes amid a bitter row between him and the US intelligence agencies he will soon lead.
> 
> Only yesterday the committee chairman Richard Burr, a Republican, had told reporters that connections between the president-elect and Moscow would be outside the remit of his committee’s ongoing investigation into Russia’s alleged attempts to influence the election through hacking and other cyberattacks.
> 
> But Burr – in a statement issued jointly with the panel’s top Democrat, Mark Warner – said the committee would use “subpoenas if necessary” to force Trump’s team, as well as officials from the Obama administration, to testify.
> 
> “As part of the Senate select committee on intelligence’s oversight responsibilities, we believe that it is critical to have a full understanding of the scope of Russian intelligence activities impacting the United States,” the statement said.
> 
> Among other things, the inquiry will examine “counterintelligence concerns related to Russia and the 2016 US election, including any intelligence regarding links between Russia and individuals associated with political campaigns”.
> 
> The statement is the first formal announcement describing the scope of the committee’s investigation.
> 
> The inquiry falls short of a demand, backed by every House Democrat and many Senate Democrats, for an independent bipartisan commission. With congressional Republicans opposing that move, Democrats have been hoping to build pressure as intelligence briefings on the Russia hacking have accumulated in the past week.
> 
> Warner indicated in a statement, issued alongside his statement with Burr, that he did not necessarily view the intelligence panel’s inquiry as the final investigative option.
> 
> “This issue impacts the foundations of our democratic system – it’s that important,” he said. “This requires a full, deep and bipartisan examination. At this time, I believe that this committee is clearly best positioned to take on that responsibility ... If it turns out that SSCI [Senate Select Committee on Intelligence] cannot properly conduct this investigation, I will support legislation to empower whoever can do it right.”
> 
> The announcement comes hours after the Guardian reported that FBI director James Comey frustrated lawmakers at a closed briefing on Friday when he refused to clarify whether his agency was conducting an inquiry into Trump’s ties to Russia. Comey had previously told the Senate intelligence committee that he would “never comment” on a potential FBI investigation “in an open forum like this”, raising expectations that he would put the issue to rest in a classified setting. But, according to sources attending the closed-door meeting, that was not the case.
> 
> The bulk of the intelligence committee’s hearings will be held behind closed doors, the statement from Burr and Warner said, although it would try to conduct public hearings when possible. The senators vowed to follow the intelligence “wherever it leads”.
> 
> The announcement is a reversal of Burr’s previous statement to reporters. On Thursday, he said an inquiry into the possible links between Trump and Russia would not involve investigating ties between Moscow and the Trump campaign, asserting that the committee doesn’t “have anything to do with political campaigns. We don’t have any authority to go to any campaign and request information that one would need to do an investigation.” When asked who should, he suggested the FBI.
> 
> The move comes in the aftermath of the publication of a set of unverified documents alleging covert links between the Trump campaign and Moscow and referring to personally comprising material about the president-elect, allegedly collected by Russian intelligence when he visited Russia. Trump has called the allegations “phony stuff”, adding: “It didn’t happen.”
> 
> The material was put together by Christopher Steele, a former British counter-intelligence official who was commissioned to do research on Trump on behalf of his political opponents. Steele was reportedly so alarmed by what he found that he forwarded a copy of the documents to the FBI over the summer.
> 
> David Corn, Washington editor of Mother Jones, who first broke the story about the existence of the documents, described his interview with their author in October. He said he had agreed to speak “under the condition that I not name him or reveal his nationality or the spy service where he had worked for nearly two decades, mostly on Russian matters.”
> 
> The former spy told Corn that he had decided the material he began receiving in June was “sufficiently serious” for him to send it to his contacts at the FBI. Steele did so without permission from the American firm that had hired him. “This was an extraordinary situation,” he told Corn.
> 
> The former counter-intelligence official said the reaction from the FBI was “shock and horror” and a few weeks later the Bureau asked him for information on his sources and their reliability and on how he had obtained his reports. The Bureau also asked him to carry on sending further reports to its investigators. He stressed that the reports were raw updates of what he was learning from his sources.
> 
> “This was something of huge significance, way above party politics,” the ex-spy told Corn. “I think [Trump’s] own party should be aware of this stuff as well.” He noted that the operations aimed at Trump were part of Vladimir Putin’s campaign to “disrupt and divide and discredit the system in western democracies”.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...tee-trump-aides-russia-links?CMP=share_btn_tw


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just like Trump. He always talks out of his ass. He set a new bar for lowered expectations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see how that is possible, given that Bush and oBushma had under water excavators deepening the Marianas Trench as they set that bar.


----------



## CubaMark

**snicker**

*Trump Inauguration Acts Band Together to Create the Worst Concert of All Time*









The musical lineup for Donald Trump’s inauguration has been unveiled and despite the President-elect’s insistence that headlining acts were clamoring to perform, the best he could do was 3 Doors Down, Toby Keith, and an America’s Got Talent contestant.

You might remember 3 Doors Down from the guttural sap rock genre that grew and faded in the late ‘90s and early ‘00s with bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, Nickelback, and Creed. If you’re particularly unlucky, you might have slow danced to the band’s 2002 hit “Here Without You” at a sweaty school dance. Contrary to widespread belief/interest, 3 Doors Down still exists and performs shows.

Toby Keith, longtime mascot of the right, released “Courtesy Of The Red, White, And Blue” in 2001, including the lyrics, “And you’ll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A. ‘cause we’ll put a boot in your ass. It’s the American way.”​
(Jezebel)


----------



## Macfury

I loved the lyrics of that song! Are they going to perform it? Good for Trump! 



> Toby Keith, longtime mascot of the right, released “Courtesy Of The Red, White, And Blue” in 2001, including the lyrics, “And you’ll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A. ‘cause we’ll put a boot in your ass. It’s the American way.”


----------



## Macfury

You're joking, right--or are you that far behind the news? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> And the hits just keep coming.


----------



## Dr.G.

While I know that this view is not shared by some in this thread, it is how I feel. Pres. Obama shall truly be missed by millions of Americans. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> While I know that this view is not shared by some in this thread, it is how I feel. Pres. Obama shall truly be missed by millions of Americans. Paix, mes amis.



Some people are asses, as the next post shows. What can we say? Obama was truly a great leader. Even facing great adversity, he did not give up or abandon his principles. Good luck to the 30 million Americans who will lose their health care now, including the guy who said he didn't need Obamacare because he's covered by the Affordable Care Act.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> **snicker**
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump Inauguration Acts Band Together to Create the Worst Concert of All Time*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The musical lineup for Donald Trump’s inauguration has been unveiled and despite the President-elect’s insistence that headlining acts were clamoring to perform, the best he could do was 3 Doors Down, Toby Keith, and an America’s Got Talent contestant.
> 
> 
> 
> You might remember 3 Doors Down from the guttural sap rock genre that grew and faded in the late ‘90s and early ‘00s with bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, Nickelback, and Creed. If you’re particularly unlucky, you might have slow danced to the band’s 2002 hit “Here Without You” at a sweaty school dance. Contrary to widespread belief/interest, 3 Doors Down still exists and performs shows.
> 
> 
> 
> Toby Keith, longtime mascot of the right, released “Courtesy Of The Red, White, And Blue” in 2001, including the lyrics, “And you’ll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A. ‘cause we’ll put a boot in your ass. It’s the American way.”​
> 
> 
> (Jezebel)



I wonder who will pay the royalties to Bruce Springsteen when the B-Street Band, a Springsteen cover band, plays their set. 

http://mashable.com/2017/01/11/bruce-springsteen-tribute-band-trump/#qYcLiK9mBOqb


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----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people are asses, as the next post shows. What can we say? Obama was truly a great leader. Even facing great adversity, he did not give up or abandon his principles. Good luck to the 30 million Americans who will lose their health care now, including the guy who said he didn't need Obamacare because he's covered by the Affordable Care Act.


Very good points, Frank.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly, all too true.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people are asses, as the next post shows. What can we say? Obama was truly a great leader. Even facing great adversity, he did not give up or abandon his principles.


He was a truly great leader if you're marching toward some sort of "progressive" hell of government dependence. He did not need to give up his principles to achieve that--which principles do you need? All of it involved creating a nation state of clients for government programs. He was certainly nice to the big banks and GM. I wouldn't have been.

Good riddance.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good luck to the 30 million Americans who will lose their health care now...


You know this because you've carefully thought it through, or... the usual?



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...including the guy who said he didn't need Obamacare because he's covered by the Affordable Care Act.


Did you find a screenshot of that conversation without the names blanked out? Where are the original posts? Le's see--you can't find them?


----------



## Macfury

So true.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I wonder who will pay the royalties to Bruce Springsteen when the B-Street Band, a Springsteen cover band, plays their set.


I thought you were a musician. Doesn't the performing band include royalties in the cost of their appearance?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He was a truly great leader if you're marching toward some sort of "progressive" hell of government dependence. He did not need to give up his principles to achieve that--which principles do you need? All of it involved creating a nation state of clients for government programs. He was certainly nice to the big banks and GM. I wouldn't have been.
> 
> Good riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> You know this because you've carefully thought it through, or... the usual?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you find a screenshot of that conversation without the names blanked out? Where are the original posts? Le's see--you can't find them?


One good thing about Trump becoming president is that you won't be blasting Pres. Obama or Hillary Clinton anymore (at least I hope so). Macfury, now you can focus on four years of positive comments about Trump. This should do wonders for your blood pressure if it was high. Who knows, more people may come to like the positive Macfury. We shall see. Luckily, we can still remain friends. Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Life accordion to Trump.
https://youtu.be/S65jqrHQi_c


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Life accordion to Trump.
> https://youtu.be/S65jqrHQi_c


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Which celebrities are supposed to stay out of politics?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Which celebrities are supposed to stay out of politics?


The ones that don't abide by the World According to Trump ............. if they know what is good for them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The ones that don't abide by the World According to Trump ............. if they know what is good for them.



Particularly that overrated Meryl Streep. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Particularly that overrated Meryl Streep.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True. One more tweet from The Donald and she is gone.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Particularly that overrated Meryl Streep.


She is overrated. I cringe every time she tries to do an accent. Remember the _Seinfeld _episode about that?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> She is overrated. I cringe every time she tries to do an accent. Remember the _Seinfeld _episode about that?


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJ3PjeQ1NI[/ame]

Meryl Lynch's best "accent scene". She sounds just like my grandmother. :love2:


----------



## CubaMark

Is this multiple choice? I don't see an "all of the above" option...


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Is this multiple choice? I don't see an "all of the above" option...


Good point. We could call it "Sophie's Choice". 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

A tribute to some of his greatness below...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Obama was truly a great leader.


That's not greatness. That's being a bonehead...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Even facing great adversity, he did not give up or abandon his principles.


Some tragedy... (also in his greatness below)



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good luck to the 30 million Americans who will lose their health care now...


----------



## Dr.G.

After having difficulty persuading prominent entertainers to participate at the event, the Trump transition team announced on Sunday that the Russian President Vladimir Putin would sing at Donald J. Trump’s Inauguration next week. He will sing the Beatles classic hit "Back in the USSR" and "Putin on the Ritz".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FLZPFI3jc


----------



## CubaMark

_Not a spoof, not satire...._ 
[BWorld reacts to "brilliant" Trump inauguration synopsis in Sunday Herald TV listings (From HeraldScotland)[/B]


----------



## Macfury

That could have been funny if they had written it better.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rand Paul previews Obamacare replacement plan - CNNPolitics.com

Let us hope that he is correct with the immediate change over. Sadly, I feel that he is in the minority of his own party, but while I don't support some of his views, I do feel that he is honest. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

*John Lewis, 1965:* Head cracked open on Bloody Sunday

*Donald Trump, 1965:* Plays squash at Fordham after getting Vietnam student deferment

(Twitter: The Smoking Gun)

I guess between '65 and '68 is the period in which he developed those "bone spurs" on his heels that gave him a medical deferment... (snopes)

*Related:* Twitter Melts Down Over Trump's Shocking Treatment of Rep. John Lewis | Vanity Fair


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *John Lewis, 1965:* Head cracked open on Bloody Sunday
> 
> *Donald Trump, 1965:* Plays squash at Fordham after getting Vietnam student deferment
> 
> (Twitter: The Smoking Gun)
> 
> I guess between '65 and '68 is the period in which he developed those "bone spurs" on his hells that gave him a medical deferment... (snopes)
> 
> *Related:* Twitter Melts Down Over Trump's Shocking Treatment of Rep. John Lewis | Vanity Fair



I have a bone spur in my knee and it hurts .................. not as much as getting hit in the head with a billy club ............ but I can use a Pres. Clinton phrase for Trump .... "I feel your pain." And, Trump did win a trophy. All John Lewis was able to do was advance the cause of civil/human rights in the US. And the winner is ....................................................................


----------



## CubaMark

_In 2010, days after returning from Selma, Ala., Mike Pence went on a GOP website and gushed about "my friend" John Lewis.

Then a congressman from Indiana's 6th District, Pence said he was "honored" to walk beside a man personally recruited by Martin Luther King Jr. He talked about how an officer had bashed a younger Lewis in the head during the fight for voting rights. Lewis, he said, was "an integral part of the American story in our nation's unrelenting march toward a more perfect union."_​(The Washington Post)​


----------



## Macfury

Uh, what does Lewis' civil rights background have to do with his ridiculous comments now?


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _In 2010, days after returning from Selma, Ala., Mike Pence went on a GOP website and gushed about "my friend" John Lewis.
> 
> Then a congressman from Indiana's 6th District, Pence said he was "honored" to walk beside a man personally recruited by Martin Luther King Jr. He talked about how an officer had bashed a younger Lewis in the head during the fight for voting rights. Lewis, he said, was "an integral part of the American story in our nation's unrelenting march toward a more perfect union."_​(The Washington Post)​


Good for VP elect Pence. I don't agree with much of what he believes in, but for this comment we are in agreement.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Good for VP elect Pence. I don't agree with much of what he believes in, but for this comment we are in agreement.



It is important to reinforce the hell out of the Repubs when they do something right. It's about the only hope for now of influencing the decision makers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Here's some news: Mike Pence does not really care what you think.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It is important to reinforce the hell out of the Repubs when they do something right. It's about the only hope for now of influencing the decision makers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It is important to reinforce the hell out of the Repubs when they do something right. It's about the only hope for now of influencing the decision makers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A valid point, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Here's some news: Mike Pence does not really care what you think.


Sadly, all too true, Macfury. Still, look on the bright side of this situation, at the end of the week, you won't have Pres. Obama to "kick around" anymore. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, all too true, Macfury. Still, look on the bright side of this situation, at the end of the week, you won't have Pres. Obama to "kick around" anymore. Paix, mon ami.


I'm walking on air, Dr. G.!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm walking on air, Dr. G.!


:lmao: Thought you would be "walking on sunshine". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Here's some news: Mike Pence does not really care what you think.



And yet more news: I have something in common with Mike Pence with respect to what you think. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet more news: I have something in common with Mike Pence with respect to what you think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So you are his long lost twin brother that his family put up for adoption when your liberal leanings became known in the Pence household.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm walking on air, Dr. G.!


Enjoy your week .......... and the next four years. Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTDzDviQvDo&feature=share[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH01FhqMdc8[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

If only. 










http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...ing-president-of-united-states-to-be-taxpayer


----------



## Freddie_Biff

On the lack of A-list talent for Inauguration Day:

For all the money in the world, the guy can't buy a clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

If Obama had spent less time partying with A-List talent he might have been able to buy a legacy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> On the lack of A-list talent for Inauguration Day:
> 
> For all the money in the world, the guy can't buy a clue.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> If only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama Signs Executive Order Requiring President of United States to Be Taxpayer - The New Yorker


Oops.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> If only.


So federal government employees like Hillary could not run for president?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So federal government employees like Hillary could not run for president?


She filed her returns with the IRS and then revealed these returns to the American people. What Bernie Sanders wanted her to do is reveal the contents of her speeches to firms like Goldman Sachs for which she was paid $250,000. 

I don't see her running for any office in the near future. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

As a public employee she costs the American taxpayer. No net income tax is paid.



Dr.G. said:


> She filed her returns with the IRS and then revealed these returns to the American people. What Bernie Sanders wanted her to do is reveal the contents of her speeches to firms like Goldman Sachs for which she was paid $250,000.
> 
> I don't see her running for any office in the near future. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Then tell him to support Trump.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet more news: I have something in common with Mike Pence with respect to what you think.


----------



## Macfury

I think Pence is listening to you! He wants to kill Obamacare!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think Pence is listening to you! He wants to kill Obamacare!



Of course he does. And replace it with what exactly? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I thought you had a line to Pence?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Of course he does. And replace it with what exactly?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I thought you had a line to Pence?


As my grandfather used to say "From your lips to God's ear".


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao:

Can you imagine if they take away his Twitter account?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I thought you had a line to Pence?



I said I had something in common with him. There's a difference. Read for comprehension. So tell me smart guy, what are they going to replace the ACA with? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

_Here they go again, that looney Lefty rag The Guardian UK lavishing praise on Obama, like he's the Second Coming or something...._

*
How Barack Obama paved the way for Donald Trump*
_Don’t blame it all on racism. During the financial crash Obama sided with the bankers, not people losing their homes – making Trump’s victory possible_










To celebrate its 225th anniversary, the US Mint and Treasury last week unveiled plans to issue a 24-carat commemorative coin depicting Lady Liberty as an African-American woman. With full lips and braided hair tied back in a bun, her gold-embossed profile is framed by the words “LIBERTY” above and “In God We Trust” below. “As we as a nation continue to evolve,” said Elisa Basnight, the Mint’s chief of staff, “so does Liberty’s representation.”

Sadly, the representation is evolving far faster than the nation. The coin is worth $100 (£80); in 2010 the median net wealth for women of colour was calculated at just $5. Black women now earn 65 cents for every $1 made by a white man – the same gap as 20 years ago. So the Treasury has produced a coin in these women’s image that most cannot afford – because the economy is producing low-wage jobs that leave them with liberty without equality.

For the past eight years American liberals have gorged themselves on symbolism. A significant section of the population, including those most likely to support Barack Obama, have felt better about their country even as they have fared worse in it. The young, good-looking, intact, scandal-free black family in the White House embodied a hopeful future for America and beyond.

* * *​
This transition is not simply a matter of sequence – one bad president following a good one – but consequence: one horrendous agenda made possible by the failure of its predecessor.

It is easy for liberals to despise Trump. He is a thin-skinned charlatan, a self-proclaimed sexual harasser, a blusterer and a bigot. One need not exhaust any moral energy in making the case against his agenda. That is precisely what makes it so difficult to understand his appeal. Similarly, it is easy for liberals to love Obama. He’s measured, thoughtful, smart and eloquent – and did some good things despite strong opposition from Republicans. That is precisely what makes it so difficult for liberals to provide a principled and plausible critique of his presidency.

* * *​
There is a deeper connection, however, between Trump’s rise and what Obama did – or rather didn’t do – economically. He entered the White House at a moment of economic crisis, with Democratic majorities in both Houses and bankers on the back foot. Faced with the choice of preserving the financial industry as it was or embracing far-reaching reforms that would have served the interests of those who voted for him, he chose the former.

Just a couple of months into his first term he called a meeting of banking executives. “The president had us at a moment of real vulnerability,” one of them told Ron Suskind in his book Confidence Men. “At that point, he could have ordered us to do just about anything and we would have rolled over. But he didn’t – he mostly wanted to help us out, to quell the mob.” People lost their homes while bankers kept their bonuses and banks kept their profits.

* * *​
Trump’s cabinet of billionaires will do no better and will, in all likelihood, do far worse. And even as we protest about the legitimacy of the “new normal”, we should not pretend it is replacing something popular or effective. The old normal was not working. The premature nostalgia for the Obamas in the White House is not a yearning for Obama’s policies.

As any recipient of the new coin will tell you, there’s a difference between things that look different and make you feel good, and things that make a difference and actually do good. Symbols should not be dismissed as insubstantial; but nor should they be mistaken for substance.​
(The Guardian UK)


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Of course he does. And replace it with what exactly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Repealing Obamacare: Trump says fast, Congress says slow - CNNPolitics.com

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblYSKz_VnI[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Here they go again, that looney Lefty rag The Guardian UK lavishing praise on Obama, like he's the Second Coming or something...._


It's very kind to the Obama "legacy" and very hard on Trump--what's your point?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I said I had something in common with him. There's a difference. Read for comprehension. So tell me smart guy, what are they going to replace the ACA with?


Do me a favour first. Before the Affordable Care Act was passed, as Nancy Pelosi famously stated, "We have to pass the bill to know what's in it." At the time, did you post here demanding to know what was in it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do me a favour first. Before the Affordable Care Act was passed, as Nancy Pelosi famously stated, "We have to pass the bill to know what's in it." At the time, did you post here demanding to know what was in it?



I'm not American; I don't really care what's in it. I care why the Trumpettes have such a hardon for repealing it without anything better to offer. Do me a favour: answer the question. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You didn't care why Democrats had such a "hardon" to push Obamacare out the door to begin with, so I doubt you'll be interested in this.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not American; I don't really care what's in it. I care why the Trumpettes have such a hardon for repealing it without anything better to offer. Do me a favour: answer the question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You didn't care why Democrats had such a "hardon" to push Obamacare out the door to begin with, so I doubt you'll be interested in this.



Again, no answer. I will presume it is because you haven't the foggiest idea. Nor do they. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You didn't care why Democrats had such a "hardon" to push Obamacare out the door to begin with, so I doubt you'll be interested in this.


The ACA was horribly flawed, as we've discussed often in this thread.

Its failings, however, do not let you off the hook for your pom-pom shaking as the Republicans repeal it, leaving millions of Americans with no health care coverage.

Removing an existing system of medical insurance, however flawed, with nothing on hand to replace it (after *six years* of bitching about it, they apparently did nothing but bitch in that time).

Explain the logic of this to me, o wise one! :lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Monica Crowley to relinquish post in Trump White House: transition official - The Globe and Mail

Not good news for Trump, in that she had not finished his inaugural address in total. Here are the pieces she left him to use on Friday. Hopefully he will use them and be remember for as long as the US Republic shall stand. We shall see.

"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility--I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it--and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. 

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. 

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man."

"In 'your' hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in 'mine', is the momentous issue of civil war. The Government will not assail 'you'. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. 'You' have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the Government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it." "

"Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of this past election may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the votes counted by the electoral college, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."

"This Nation asks for action, and action now."

""I am certain that my fellow Americans expect that on my induction into the Presidency I will address them with a candor and a decision which the present situation of our people impel. This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days."

"This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny."


----------



## Macfury

I think Trump can do better than that old speech.


----------



## Macfury

Why do you believe there will be no interim coverage?



CubaMark said:


> The ACA was horribly flawed, as we've discussed often in this thread.
> 
> Its failings, however, do not let you off the hook for your pom-pom shaking as the Republicans repeal it, leaving millions of Americans with no health care coverage.
> 
> Removing an existing system of medical insurance, however flawed, with nothing on hand to replace it (after *six years* of bitching about it, they apparently did nothing but bitch in that time).
> 
> Explain the logic of this to me, o wise one! :lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think Trump can do better than that old speech.


We shall see, mon ami. Wonder if he will say or Tweet his speech?


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> After having difficulty persuading prominent entertainers to participate at the event, the Trump transition team announced on Sunday that the Russian President Vladimir Putin would sing at Donald J. Trump’s Inauguration next week. He will sing the Beatles classic hit "Back in the USSR" and "Putin on the Ritz".
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FLZPFI3jc


Your video link is a stretch but the rest of your post is on point.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> She is overrated. I cringe every time she tries to do an accent. Remember the _Seinfeld _episode about that?


She has received more awards than she is due I will agree, but she has nothing to do with that. She is a very good actor. Overrated? Maybe, but so is the Donald.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> If Obama had spent less time partying with A-List talent he might have been able to buy a legacy.


That is simply a ridiculous and inflammatory post which you have no basis in fact to defend.

*I call trolling*... that is pretty much all you have been doing for quite some time now. I thought you were better than that. I guess I was wrong.

You used to present reasonable arguments to support your position. Since Trump was running for president and got elected the quality and veracity of your posts have diminished dramatically. 

I guess it is to be expected in the era of "the Donald".


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Your video link is a stretch but the rest of your post is on point.


Well, we shall see if Putin is the hit he expects to be on Friday. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

It's called having fun. It makes about as much sense as criticizing Trump because Democrat performers like Bruce Springsteen won't perform at his inauguration.




screature said:


> That is simply a ridiculous and inflammatory post which you have no basis in fact to defend.
> 
> *I call trolling*... that is pretty much all you have been doing for quite some time now. I thought you were better than that. I guess I was wrong.
> 
> You used to present reasonable arguments to support your position. Since Trump was running for president and got elected the quality and veracity of your posts have diminished dramatically.
> 
> I guess it is to be expected in the era of "the Donald".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's called having fun. It makes about as much sense as criticizing Trump because Democrat performers like Bruce Springsteen won't perform at his inauguration.


Well, comes Friday you are in for 4 years of "fun". Enjoy the ride.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, comes Friday you are in for 4 years of "fun". Enjoy the ride.


I've had 8 years of less fun than George Bush's 8 years of no fun, so something has to break.


----------



## Macfury

Martin Luther King III seemed to have a good meeting with Donald Trump today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I've had 8 years of less fun than George Bush's 8 years of no fun, so something has to break.


Well, let's see what happens in four years, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Martin Luther King III seemed to have a good meeting with Donald Trump today.


Good to hear. Where did they meet?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's called having fun. It makes about as much sense as criticizing Trump because Democrat performers like Bruce Springsteen won't perform at his inauguration.



Not just Springsteen; the cover band has pulled out too, out of respect for Bruce. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Martin Luther King III seemed to have a good meeting with Donald Trump today.



Good in what sense? Because another black man was allowed into Trump Tower in addition to Steve Harvey? Perhaps you could explain what was good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It's called having fun. It makes about as much sense as criticizing Trump because Democrat performers like Bruce Springsteen won't perform at his inauguration.


Ha! Springsteen is more of a patriot than Trump could ever even imagine being.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






At least he has some respect for the values, ethics, moral and ideals, that actually did once make *America Great*.

All Trump wants is to drag the US down to his level of self centered, self absorbed, self interested megalomania; that is what he is all about. That is his agenda. That way the people of the US will just be interested in consuming for consumption sake and drive his businesses and those of his ilk. 

He is not in the least bit interested in middle America or anyone else but himself. He duped the American right (and how stupid were they) to believe that a billionaire who doesn't pay taxes is interested in their well being and wants to create change that will benefit them.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Good to hear. Where did they meet?


Trump Tower. MLKIII seemed to be pleased with Trump's proposal to create a universal and free voter ID card that was easy to obtain and would encourage voting.


----------



## Macfury

I suspect they are both patriots with different visions.



screature said:


> Ha! Springsteen is more of a patriot than Trump could ever even imagine being.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump Tower. MLKIII seemed to be pleased with Trump's proposal to create a universal and free voter ID card that was easy to obtain and would encourage voting.


That would be a great idea unless various states attempt to block this move to discourage voting. We shall see.

I recall when I moved to Waycross, Georgia to teach at a rural school back in 1973 and registered to vote. They forced me to take a literacy test. I had a master's degree so it was not difficult. When they asked me to read the preamble for the Constitution, I did most of it from memory, which did not please them. When asked to explain what I just read actually meant, I did this as well, being an American History major as an undergrad. Strangely, what really pissed them off was when I had to fill out the form and put "C" for race, being a Caucasian, I was told that "C" was for "Colored" and I should have put a "W" since I was of the "white race".

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Ha! Springsteen is more of a patriot than Trump could ever even imagine being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least he has some respect for the values, ethics, moral and ideals, that actually did once make *America Great*.
> 
> 
> 
> All Trump wants is to drag the US down to his level of self centered, self absorbed, self interested megalomania; that is what he is all about. That is his agenda. That way the people of the US will just be interested in consuming for consumption sake and drive his businesses and those of his ilk.
> 
> 
> 
> He is not in the least bit interested in middle America or anyone else but himself. He duped the American right (and how stupid were they) to believe that a billionaire who doesn't pay taxes is interested in their well being and wants to create change that will benefit them.



The emperor truly has no clothes, when even the COVER band backs out. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I suspect most cover bands should stop playing out of respect for the originals.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I suspect most cover bands should stop playing out of respect for the originals.



Yet again you miss the point.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> The emperor truly has no clothes, when even the COVER band backs out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There may still be hope if the Pee Street Band is available .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Ha! Springsteen is more of a patriot than Trump could ever even imagine being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least he has some respect for the values, ethics, moral and ideals, that actually did once make *America Great*.
> 
> All Trump wants is to drag the US down to his level of self centered, self absorbed, self interested megalomania; that is what he is all about. That is his agenda. That way the people of the US will just be interested in consuming for consumption sake and drive his businesses and those of his ilk.
> 
> He is not in the least bit interested in middle America or anyone else but himself. He duped the American right (and how stupid were they) to believe that a billionaire who doesn't pay taxes is interested in their well being and wants to create change that will benefit them.


Good points, screature. Paix, mon ami.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> There may still be hope if the Pee Street Band is available .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Expect a knock at your door at any time after Friday, mon ami. Bonne chance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Expect a knock at your door at any time after Friday, mon ami. Bonne chance.


----------



## Dr.G.

Frank, I was thinking of a different pair knocking at your door. Or, some quiet morning at 3AM you will be whisked away ............. never to be seen or heard from again.  Bonne chance, mon ami ................. bon voyage.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, I was thinking of a different pair knocking at your door. Or, some quiet morning at 3AM you will be whisked away ............. never to be seen or heard from again.  Bonne chance, mon ami ................. bon voyage.



Better pissed off than pissed on, I always say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Funny that those confusions about Obamacare and ACA all seem to be made up memes--just like the phony Facebook screen shot. Goodbye Obamacare!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And on the third day he rose again....










http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...e/news-story/4d16f24b31a65f79fcbb18017d9a7ec6


----------



## Macfury

Obama is furious. And he'll get back to you on that following the golf game following his vacation.


----------



## FeXL

FTFY...



screature said:


> All _Obama did was_ to drag the US down to his level of self centered, self absorbed, self interested megalomania; that is what he is all about.


Recall all the selfies by President 4-Putt? Even during a state funeral? Talk about self-idolatry...


----------



## FeXL

For those of you still in denial.

President Obama’s Disastrous Record on Race



> *In a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 63 percent of Americans think race relations are “generally bad.” Shortly after Obama took office, that number was 22 percent. In the same time period, those who think race relations are “generally good” plummeted from 66 percent to 32 percent.*
> 
> Of course, Obama fans assert that this increase in racial division is due to white contempt for a black president. This is illogical since months after he took office, the American people thought racial harmony was higher than it had ever been.


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

How about that speech:

"We are the ones we've been waiting for."

or

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

I believe Barack mentioned himself 75 times in his farewell speech. Hosting the Chicago Cubs in the White House, only 40 times. 

But Trump suffers from self-idolatry? Right...




FeXL said:


> FTFY...
> 
> 
> 
> Recall all the selfies by President 4-Putt? Even during a state funeral? Talk about self-idolatry...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> How about that speech:
> 
> "We are the ones we've been waiting for."
> 
> or
> 
> "This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
> 
> I believe Barack mentioned himself 75 times in his farewell speech. Hosting the Chicago Cubs in the White House, only 40 times.
> 
> But Trump suffers from self-idolatry? Right...


Well, Pres. Obama has earned our respect .............. as well as his own self respect.

You are truly going to miss him. Like Alexander with no more empires to conquer, you won't have him as the target of your wrath. Guess you shall just have to sing the praises of Trump for the next four years. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Trump was the only person who could have defeated Hillary Clinton, and for that I'm grateful. I have no idea how well he will do, but I like what I see so far.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, Pres. Obama has earned our respect .............. as well as his own self respect.
> 
> You are truly going to miss him. Like Alexander with no more empires to conquer, you won't have him as the target of your wrath. Guess you shall just have to sing the praises of Trump for the next four years. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump was the only person who could have defeated Hillary Clinton, and for that I'm grateful. I have no idea how well he will do, but I like what I see so far.


Sadly, all too true. Even sadder is that Bernie Sanders could have beaten Trump had he been the Democratic candidate. Such is Life. :-(


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Trump was the only person who could have defeated Hillary Clinton, and for that I'm grateful. I have no idea how well he will do, but I like what I see so far.


I believe that it was Hillary who defeated Hillary. Her campaign was designed to appeal solely to her Bankster and APAC backers, and to those who contributed generously to the Clinton Foundation. She campaigned mainly on not being Donald Trump, a clear red flag that she had nothing to offer. 

I honestly believe the Clinton Cabal did all they could to assure Trump winning the primary nomination, thinking he was the only candidate Hillary had a chance of beating. That she failed to do so speaks volumes.


----------



## CubaMark

> The news comes as a surprise after Mr Trump previously promised to spend his very first day signing papers to begin the process of erasing President Barack Obama’s legacy.
> 
> “On Day One, I am going to begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country,” he said during a speech in Des Moines back in August. “It’s going to happen within one hour after I take office.”
> 
> He also promised to begin plans to build his wall on the Mexican border, talk to manufacturers about keeping jobs in the US and remove gun-free zones within his first 24 hours. “My first day, it gets signed, OK?” he said.
> 
> His aides even came up with a catchy name — The First Day Project — for Mr Trump’s ambitious start, with adviser Stephen Moore telling the New Yorker:
> 
> “We want to identify maybe 25 executive orders that Trump could sign literally the first day in office.”
> 
> Meaning “literally” the third day.


(News.com.au)​
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I believe that it was Hillary who defeated Hillary. Her campaign was designed to appeal solely to her Bankster and APAC backers, and to those who contributed generously to the Clinton Foundation. She campaigned mainly on not being Donald Trump, a clear red flag that she had nothing to offer.
> 
> I honestly believe the Clinton Cabal did all they could to assure Trump winning the primary nomination, thinking he was the only candidate Hillary had a chance of beating. That she failed to do so speaks volumes.


Agreed that Clinton basically lost the race on her own. I feel that she did have a great deal of positives to offer, but she ignored major segments of the American public. This, ultimately, did her in.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Agreed that Clinton basically lost the race on her own. I feel that she did have a great deal of positives to offer, but she ignored major segments of the American public. This, ultimately, did her in.


The "basket of deplorables" that constitute 50% of the population...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The "basket of deplorables" that constitute 50% of the population...


That was her dumbest comment of the election. That, and when she said they left the White House "broke" ............ while they had three homes still.  I always supported Sanders, but did vote for her since she was way better than Trump. I would rather have seen Sanders, or even Joe Biden, sworn in on Friday. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

EDITORIAL: Barack Obama — A man of good will | The Chronicle Herald

A fine editorial re Pres. Obama. Some will disagree, so get your last kicks in on Pres. Obama now, since comes the weekend, you shall have the president you want. Guess that means that PM Trudeau is in for a real bashing. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Macfury

I think you have to be a real fan to look at his presidency that way. I think Obama was doing his best, but moving the country entirely in the wrong direction.



Dr.G. said:


> EDITORIAL: Barack Obama — A man of good will | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> A fine editorial re Pres. Obama. Some will disagree, so get your last kicks in on Pres. Obama now, since comes the weekend, you shall have the president you want. Guess that means that PM Trudeau is in for a real bashing. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think you have to be a real fan to look at his presidency that way. I think Obama was doing his best, but moving the country entirely in the wrong direction.


Yes, I was, as were a majority of Americans. Luckily, he moved the country in a variety of right directions ................. many of which will now be changed starting next week. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.rt.com/usa/364237-libertarian-party-vp-insults-trump/

I wonder what will happen to Bill Weld after Friday????


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.rt.com/usa/364237-libertarian-party-vp-insults-trump/
> 
> I wonder what will happen to Bill Weld after Friday????


Weld? He'll go back to being forgotten.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Silver linings.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Carter already duked that one out with Obama. I heard a huge sigh of relief coming up from Georgia after the first four Obama years!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Weld? He'll go back to being forgotten.


Forgotten ............. or disappear? This is what Stalin was famous for way back when.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Silver linings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

If it gets low enough, he will have nowhere to go but up. 



> Donald Trump Enters Office With Dismal Approval Ratings
> 
> by Tod Perry
> 
> 
> via Twitter
> 
> President-elect Donald Trump is wildly unpopular. Sure, he won the presidency, but lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by nearly three million votes. According to Gallup, Trump is the least popular president-elect since they began tracking incoming presidential approval ratings back in the ‘90s. While most incoming presidents enjoy a post-election bump in the polls, Trump’s numbers have soured since the election and, according to a recent national poll by Quinnipiac University, only 37 percent of Americans approve of the job he’s doing.
> 
> For some historical context, Barack Obama had an 83 percent approval rating in 2009. George W. Bush entered office with a 61 percent favorable rating even after beating Al Gore in a contentious supreme court battle. And Bill Clinton had a 68 percent favorable rating after winning three-candidate race with 43 percent of the vote. After winning the election, Trump had a 46 percent approval rating but it’s precipitously dropping as Americans become leery of his ties to Russia, calls to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and daily Twitter outbursts.
> 
> More findings from the Quinnipiac University poll:
> 
> — 53 percent of Americans believe Trump isn’t honest
> 
> — 52 percent of Americans believe Trump does not care about average Americans
> 
> — 62 percent believe he isn’t level-headed
> 
> — 34 percent of Americans believe that Trump will be a better president than Obama


https://www.good.is/articles/trumps...d&tse_id=INF_df784e00dcdf11e6a03c354c456e1db2


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> If it gets low enough, he will have nowhere to go but up.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.good.is/articles/trumps...d&tse_id=INF_df784e00dcdf11e6a03c354c456e1db2


A valid point, Frank. 

Trump Blames Bad Poll Numbers on Existence of Numerical System - The New Yorker


----------



## Macfury

Look at the poll skew and you'll see how they got that number. Democrats over-represented by 50 per cent. Simple math.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If it gets low enough, he will have nowhere to go but up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Look at the poll skew and you'll see how they got that number. Democrats over-represented by 50 per cent. Simple math.



Watch the news. See the same information from several sources. Doubt if you want, but your boy just ain't that popular. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, Frank.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Blames Bad Poll Numbers on Existence of Numerical System - The New Yorker




Sort of reminds me of this fellow with respect to those so-called "facts".

https://youtu.be/jOjfxEejS2Y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

He certainly won't be popular for melting the snowflake epidemic. However, he's much more popular than that survey shows. You post links but you don't really make an effort to understand what you're posting.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Watch the news. See the same information from several sources. Doubt if you want, but your boy just ain't that popular.


----------



## Dr.G.

VIBERT: Measuring Trump against former presidents | The Chronicle Herald

Luckily, I was able to hear JFK give his inaugural address live on TV.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He certainly won't be popular for melting the snowflake epidemic. However, he's much more popular than that survey shows. You post links but you don't really make an effort to understand what you're posting.



Au contraire, mon ami; I post links but you don't really make an effort to understand what I'm posting. Doesn't really bother me if it goes over your head though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> VIBERT: Measuring Trump against former presidents | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, I was able to hear JFK give his inaugural address live on TV.



Problem with Trump is that he can't or won't read. Ima go with can't. That means they're going to have to make the TelePrompTer 72 point Reader'a Digest for old people font, or else he's going to be winging much of it. I'd bet on option number two. It will be a graceless, partisan, Narcissistic extended tweet kind of speech. 


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----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> FTFY...
> 
> 
> 
> Recall all the selfies by President 4-Putt? Even during a state funeral? Talk about self-idolatry...


A selfie is hardly megalomania, if it were the case my wife is a megalomaniac as are about another billion people on the planet if that is the criteria.


----------



## screature

*Just a prediction...*

Trump will go down in history as being the worst President the US has ever had. He will either be impeached, or forced to resign... Maybe even worse.

He is quite simply, without even being President yet, the most divisive leader the US has seen in generations.

Yep, that is what the US needs right now or at any time in their history.

Putin probably likes Trump because he will divide the US so much that they won't even pay attention when he rolls into Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia. They won't care because they will be too pre*occupied * with their own national strife.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Trump will go down in history as being the worst President the US has ever had. He will either be impeached, or forced to resign... Maybe even worse.
> 
> He is quite simply, without out even being President yet, the most divisive leader the US has seen in generations.
> 
> Yep, that is what the US needs right now or at any time in their history.
> 
> Putin probably likes Trump because he will divide the US so much that they won't even pay attention when he rolls into Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia. They won't care because they will be too pre*occupied * with their own national strife.


While I don't with Trump ill, if he were to be impeached or resign it might actually be helpful for the country. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Problem with Trump is that he can't or won't read. Ima go with can't. That means they're going to have to make the TelePrompTer *72 point Reader'a Digest for old people font*, or else he's going to be winging much of it. I'd bet on option number two. It will be a graceless, partisan, Narcissistic extended tweet kind of speech.


The only graceless partisans are folks like you who discriminate against the elderly due to their age. That is an unforgivable mistake for a so-called teacher. Shame on you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The only graceless partisans are folks like you who discriminate against the elderly due to their age. That is an unforgivable mistake for a so-called teacher. Shame on you.



Nope, shame on you for supporting an illegitimate tax-evading misogynistic xenophobic alt-right pandering pretender, Don. I have no problem with someone with weak eyesight like myself using glasses or contacts or large size font to help decipher the words in a situation like this, but this bozo is far too vain and far too ashamed of his learning disability to even admit he has one. Check that video again where he is asked to read from the deposition and he finds every excuse in the book not to. HE CAN'T READ. He's a bull**** artist. He doesn't deserve the job he won and still you defend him. Shame on you indeed, Don.


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----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Problem with Trump is that he can't or won't read. Ima go with can't. That means they're going to have to make the TelePrompTer 72 point Reader'a Digest for old people font, or else he's going to be winging much of it. I'd bet on option number two. It will be a graceless, partisan, Narcissistic extended tweet kind of speech.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The article was very well written and made some valid points.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope, shame on you for supporting an illegitimate tax-evading misogynistic xenophobic alt-right pandering pretender, Don. I have no problem with someone with weak eyesight like myself using glasses or contacts or large size font to help decipher the words in a situation like this, but this bozo is far too vain and far too ashamed of his learning disability to even admit he has one. Check that video again where he is asked to read from the deposition and he finds every excuse in the book not to. HE CAN'T READ. He's a bull**** artist. He doesn't deserve the job he won and still you defend him. Shame on you indeed, Don.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry I am a bit lost as I don't visit as often as I used to... What video is it that you are talking about that shows that Trump can't read?


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> EDITORIAL: Barack Obama — A man of good will | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> A fine editorial re Pres. Obama. Some will disagree, so get your last kicks in on Pres. Obama now, since comes the weekend, you shall have the president you want. Guess that means that PM Trudeau is in for a real bashing. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


Trudeau will indeed be in for a real bashing when his time is done Marc, but for many, many different reasons. To in any way try to compare Obama to baby Trudeau at this point in time does a great disservice to the presidency of Obama.

There is no correlation between the two at all IMO.

Trudeau is a ham just like his mother and father. He is a constant photo op with little to no substance. At least his father had original ideas (although severely flawed) there is nothing new with baby Trudeau except the legalization of pot. Which is nothing new, except in Canada. 

It is early days but I suspect there will be some really valid reasons for Trudeau bashing when his days are done.


----------



## eMacMan

Tossing this out there mainly to provoke the thought process. No personal comment intended.



> RANGELY | The Rangely Town Council held their first meeting of the new year on Tuesday.
> 
> Police Chief Vince Wilczek updated the council on happenings in the police department including upcoming trainings, a new Facebook page and a new school program. Starting this year officers will be asked to spend one day a week eating lunch at the elementary school. Wilczek also informed the council that DUI’s were down 20 percent in 2016.
> 
> Trustee Andy Key asked why the RPD will not administer Narcan to drug overdose cases, a program which Meeker recently began. Wilczek responded that it was “like giving a drunk a drive home, they’re going to get drunk every night. Actions have recourses,” he said, “if there’s no recourse for your action you’re going to keep doing it. We shouldn’t incur any cost because of drug addicts.”


Rangely Town Council holds first meeting of 2017


----------



## eMacMan

One of those stories being completely ignored by CNN, Faux and the rest of the fake news bunch. This one is a real blood boiler!



> The Environmental Protection Agency is suing Colorado Springs for inadequate drainage facilities, because the EPA purportedly cares so much about clean water. The outdated infrastructure could, conceivably, cause trouble downstream. City officials raced to upgrade facilities long before the suit, committing hundreds of millions to do so. Regardless, the EPA wants a pint of blood.
> 
> Meanwhile, in a move of brazen hypocrisy, the same EPA says it absolutely, positively will not reimburse farmers, ranchers, Indian tribes, rafting companies, rafting workers and others who suffered financial losses from the agency's 2015 Gold King Mine spill. The agency claims sovereign immunity. With the spill a distant memory in the collective mindset, the EPA won't pay a dime. Harm from the EPA's offense is not speculative, as it is with Colorado Springs' drainage problems. People are hurting because of the Gold King spill.
> ...


EDITORIAL: EPA hypocrites won't pay victims of Gold King spill | Colorado Springs Gazette, News


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> Tossing this out there mainly to provoke the thought process. No personal comment intended.
> 
> 
> Rangely Town Council holds first meeting of 2017


Well there is a lot more to the article than that particular quote, but what do you have say about it. 

Who the hell is Meeker? I want to know your personal comment. And where the hell do you get the time to read this stuff?

Is this some sort of online interactive detective mystery?


----------



## Macfury

I have really mixed feelings about this. It's hard to do a simple cost-benefit analysis and I find it philosophically repugnant.



eMacMan said:


> Tossing this out there mainly to provoke the thought process. No personal comment intended.
> 
> 
> Rangely Town Council holds first meeting of 2017


----------



## eMacMan

screature said:


> Well there is a lot more to the article than that particular quote, but what do you have say about it.
> 
> Who the hell is Meeker? I want to know your personal comment. And where the hell do you get the time to read this stuff?
> 
> Is this some sort of online interactive detective mystery?


This should help 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeker,_Colorado

Actually spotted the Narcan quote elsewhere but decided it was only fair to go to the original source.

That said I do have a friend and former neighbour in Rangely who makes the Police Chief look like a bleeding heart Liberal. Best neighbour a man can ask for.


----------



## Macfury

You're a headlines man, Freddie--analysis is not your forte.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Au contraire, mon ami; I post links but you don't really make an effort to understand what I'm posting. Doesn't really bother me if it goes over your head though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> A selfie is hardly megalomania, if it were the case my wife is a megalomaniac as are about another billion people on the planet if that is the criteria.


At a funeral?


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> One of those stories being completely ignored by CNN, Faux and the rest of the fake news bunch. This one is a real blood boiler!
> 
> EDITORIAL: EPA hypocrites won't pay victims of Gold King spill | Colorado Springs Gazette, News


I have been unkind to you in the past. I am sorry. That does not mean that I will always agree with you but I will do my best to be more polite.

This particular story I have no problem in believing that it is completely true.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I have really mixed feelings about this. It's hard to do a simple cost-benefit analysis and I find it philosophically repugnant.


Myself as well. I know two recovering addicts one clean for a year and a half, the other for a year. They tell me the craving is always waiting to grab them. If they do succumb they are at great risk of overdosing as their body lacks the tolerance for the drug as compared to the times they were using.

Both are good people and I would want their lives spared should that happen.


----------



## Macfury

Hey, SINC--here's a video of Trump not reading. Freddie is just the prisoner of his own poor research:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> At a funeral?


No doubt, but over 20 years ago I was paid to videotape a wake and a funeral for the family.

Go figure? Things have changed. Funerals have been open game for a long time now for photo ops.


----------



## Macfury

I feel sorry for most of them. As long as they don't hurt others or get into a vehicle while under the influence, they should not be prosecuted--same as alcohol. The crime should not be taking the drug, but what you do to harm others.



eMacMan said:


> Myself as well. I know two recovering addicts one clean for a year and a half, the other for a year. They tell me the craving is always waiting to grab them. If they do succumb they are at great risk of overdosing as their body lacks the tolerance for the drug as compared to the times they were using.
> 
> Both are good people and I would want their lives spared should that happen.


----------



## eMacMan

screature said:


> I have been unkind to you in the past. I am sorry. That does not mean that I will always agree with you but I will do my best to be more polite.
> 
> This particular story I have no problem in believing that it is completely true.


I have found the Gazette reasonably reliable, particularly on local and back yard issues.

Apology accepted and returned as needed. I think we all forget that it is a viewpoint that offends us rather than the person who holds it. I am going to disagree more often than not with almost everyone on this forum, simply because my views can range from far left to extreme right to occasionally up the middle. Taken as a whole my views cannot be placed in any of the standard boxes and I think that is the way it should be. 

As an example I am an extreme fiscal conservative, while also believing that any abortion related legislation should be placed on a referendum where only women can vote and a 2/3rds majority should be required to make it law.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> This particular story I have no problem in believing that it is completely true.


I talked to members of the company who developed the system to clean it up--absolutely real. A local newspaper printed an op-ed weeks before the disaster predicting that the EPA's approach at the site would cause exactly what happened.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Sorry I am a bit lost as I don't visit as often as I used to... What video is it that you are talking about that shows that Trump can't read?




https://youtu.be/WfaXILOSEf0


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey, SINC--here's a video of Trump not reading. Freddie is just the prisoner of his own poor research:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



I stand corrected. Nice work, MF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Slowly the truth about crooked Hillary is emerging.

Clinton Global Initiative lays off 22 as donations dry up, will shut down in April - Washington Times


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Slowly the truth about crooked Hillary is emerging.
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton Global Initiative lays off 22 as donations dry up, will shut down in April - Washington Times



"Crooked Hillary"? Seriously? That's about as mature as "Pervert Donald" or "Dishonourable Donald." Is the KoolAid tasty at least? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Trump can't both be illiterate AND accused of voraciously reading _Mein Kampf_ simultaneously


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> "Crooked Hillary"? Seriously? That's about as mature as "Pervert Donald" or "Dishonourable Donald." Is the KoolAid tasty at least?


Dead serious. Did you even read the story? Crooked fits very well.



> “This [group] wasn’t just for charitable ends,” Brian Morgenstern, vice president for the Manhattan Republican Party, told the network. “As the initiative is closing its doors, you see foreign governments who had pledged tens-of-millions of dollars pulling their donations now that Hillary Clinton will not be the president. *That shows a lot of people that this was more than just a charity. This was a way for the Clintons to network and really peddle influence due to their positions in leadership.*”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Dead serious. Did you even read the story? Crooked fits very well.



You're a Trump parrot. And pretty unoriginal, too. 


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----------



## Macfury

What's so original about posting memes that other people create? You do that all the time.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You're a Trump parrot. And pretty unoriginal, too.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You're a Trump parrot. And pretty unoriginal, too.


Your comprehension is lacking and you obviously did not read the story. Anyone who starts a charity foundation and then uses it not for charity, but for influence peddling is crooked. Period. End of story.

Trump won. Get over it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Your comprehension is lacking and you obviously did not read the story. Anyone who starts a charity foundation and then uses it not for charity, but for influence peddling is crooked. Period. End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump won. Get over it.



Yes, Dishonourable Donald won. For now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Sad clowns helped to dry up the market for clowning:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> (News.com.au)​
> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Trump will be undoing Executive Orders on Friday:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-handful-executive-actions-day-one-transition-162407134.html


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

*And then there are Trump's "great, the best, really good" appointees for key positions in his government...*


> Senator Al Franken came to today's hearing on Betsy DeVos' confirmation as Education Secretary armed with facts and figures and basic knowledge of education policy.
> 
> Sadly, Mrs. DeVos did not, as Franken soon exposed.
> 
> At one point, her answers showed she did not understand the difference between proficiency and growth when evaluating student's performance on standardized tests.
> 
> Growth is the measure of how much a student learns year-to-year compared to his or her peers. Proficiency is the attainment of specific objective benchmarks, usually determined via standardized testing. There's a huge difference between the two, and the debate is one that heavily influences public education policy.
> 
> Franken let DeVos know he wasn't impressed, chiding, "It surprises me that you don't know this issue."
> 
> _(Committee chairman Lamar Alexander limited the hearing to one round of questions per Senator, 5 minutes each, claiming that it was precedent from past hearings. Despite Democratic senators' protestations, he held to that standard. )_
> 
> Franken also tried to nail DeVos down on conversion therapy, asking if she supported it for LGBT students.
> 
> "I have never believed in that," DeVos replied. "I fully embrace equality and believe in the innate value of every single human being and that all students should be able to attend schools and be free of discrimination."
> 
> Unfortunately, this doesn't square with her family's gifts to organizations like Focus on the Family and other anti-LGBT organizations who actively advocate for conversion therapy.
> 
> When DeVos was confronted by New Hampshire Senator Maggie Hassan on the Prince Foundation's donations to Focus on the Family, DeVos denied having any position on the board of that foundation and said her mother makes her own grants to other organizations without any input from her.
> 
> When Hassan followed up on that with a 990 showing DeVos listed as Vice President of the Prince Foundation, DeVos called it a "clerical error." The problem with that answer is that she has been listed as VP of that foundation for 14 straight years. Whether, as vice president, she had any say over grants made by the foundation isn't even at issue. Her flat denial of a fact easily proven is far more telling.
> (Crooks & Liars)​


----------



## Macfury

Hello school choice!


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Moving Vans Arrive at White House to Remove All Traces of Competence, Dignity - The New Yorker


----------



## Dr.G.

Listening to Pres. Obama's last press conference. He is such a decent and honest person. He shall truly be missed.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://youtu.be/WfaXILOSEf0


Sorry Frank it is pretty obvious he can read, it is just that most of the time he has paid people to do his reading for him.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, you shall truly miss him.


----------



## Macfury

The bolded section is key.

Obama scores poorly in working with Congress on legislation - Washington Times



> President Obama oversaw the deepest legislative malaise in modern political history, according to the Washington Times Legislative Index, which captures his struggles to find ways to work with a Congress that ranged from lukewarm to openly hostile toward him.
> 
> Over the course of his eight years, he has signed just 1,227 bills into law — less, even, than one-term Presidents Carter and George H.W. Bush. Digging deeper into the numbers, Congress spent less time in session, handled fewer business on the chamber floors and generally sputtered for much of Mr. Obama’s tenure, according to The Times’ index.
> 
> Blame for the poor showing falls across Washington. Some analysts say a Congress with four years of divided control hamstrung Mr. Obama, while others say the president failed to find ways to work with the legislature that voters gave him — particularly after the 2010 elections.
> 
> “The president was never good at reaching across the aisle. So when the composition of Congress changed relative to what it was in his first two years, he wasn’t able to accommodate that very well,” said Andrew Busch, a presidential scholar at Claremont McKenna College in California. *“He never accustomed himself to operating in a system where he was not the sole player.”*


Full disclosure--I like divided governments who do less, not more. I am happy about the above record.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, you shall truly miss him.


All too true, mon ami ................. along with millions of Americans. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The bolded section is key.
> 
> Obama scores poorly in working with Congress on legislation - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> Full disclosure--I like divided governments who do less, not more. I am happy about the above record.


You LIKE Pres. Obama?!?!?!?!? Praise the Lord. The friend of my friend is my friend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You LIKE Pres. Obama?!?!?!?!?


If Obama had done nothing at all, I would have liked him better still!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If Obama had done nothing at all, I would have liked him better still!


Well, since he did a great many good things, you still have time to like him. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The bolded section is key.
> 
> Obama scores poorly in working with Congress on legislation - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> Full disclosure--I like divided governments who do less, not more. I am happy about the above record.


As a libertarian I thought this would have appealed to you.



> Over the course of his eight years, he has signed just 1,227 bills into law — less, even, than one-term Presidents Carter and George H.W. Bush.


----------



## CubaMark

This is disappointing... and injust in the extreme.

*Leonard Peltier Officially Denied Clemency by Obama*

_The Native American activist's lawyer said not granting clemency was like a death sentence, given Peltier's poor health.
The U.S. Office of the Pardon Attorney announced Wednesday night that President Barack Obama has denied clemency to imprisoned Native American activist Leonard Peltier, who has been in prison for more than 40 years on charges that have been proven false.

Peltier is a member of the American Indian Movement who was convicted of killing two FBI agents during a shootout on South Dakota’s Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975. He has long maintained his innocence.

"I think it’s fair to say that if he doesn’t get commuted by President Obama, he’ll die in jail. He’s a very sick man," Peltier’s attorney Martin Garbus told Democracy Now! earlier Wednesday.

"So, Obama’s not granting him clemency is like a sentence of death. Trump ain’t going to do it. And he’s very sick, and he’s not going to live past that time. I don’t want to be negative, but that’s the reality. He’s very sick, and he’s been in prison over 40 years, hard years, six years of solitary," Garbus added._​
(TelesurTV)


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> This is disappointing... and injust in the extreme.


It speaks more about Obama than anyone else.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> This is disappointing... and injust in the extreme.
> 
> *Leonard Peltier Officially Denied Clemency by Obama*
> 
> _The Native American activist's lawyer said not granting clemency was like a death sentence, given Peltier's poor health.
> The U.S. Office of the Pardon Attorney announced Wednesday night that President Barack Obama has denied clemency to imprisoned Native American activist Leonard Peltier, who has been in prison for more than 40 years on charges that have been proven false.
> 
> Peltier is a member of the American Indian Movement who was convicted of killing two FBI agents during a shootout on South Dakota’s Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975. He has long maintained his innocence.
> 
> "I think it’s fair to say that if he doesn’t get commuted by President Obama, he’ll die in jail. He’s a very sick man," Peltier’s attorney Martin Garbus told Democracy Now! earlier Wednesday.
> 
> "So, Obama’s not granting him clemency is like a sentence of death. Trump ain’t going to do it. And he’s very sick, and he’s not going to live past that time. I don’t want to be negative, but that’s the reality. He’s very sick, and he’s been in prison over 40 years, hard years, six years of solitary," Garbus added._​
> (TelesurTV)


All I can say is WOW!


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> As a libertarian I thought this would have appealed to you.


That's exactly what I said!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Reality sets in. 

Gallup Poll: America In Worse Shape Now Than At Start Of Obama's Presidency


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> That's exactly what I said!


Ok. Sorry my bad.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> Reality sets in.
> 
> Gallup Poll: America In Worse Shape Now Than At Start Of Obama's Presidency


Did you actually read the original Gallup poll and not just the selective interpretation of a far right nut bar?

Here is a link to the full Gallup poll for those that want to dig a little deeper than their right pocket looking for change.

Americans Assess Progress Under Obama

The country is clearly divided as we all know.

Here is another selective quote from Gallup:



> *Americans See Progress on More Issues Under Obama Than Bush*
> 
> Americans are more positive about the nation's progress under Obama than they were about U.S. progress under Bush on eight of the 12 policy domains Gallup tracked for both presidents. This perhaps underscores the relatively stronger state of the economy now compared with eight years ago. On the economy, Obama's net score of +6 is far better than Bush's -82. In addition to the economy, Americans were more likely to perceive progress under Obama than Bush on healthcare, energy, education, climate change, immigration and the U.S.'s position in the world.


See it is easy to manipulate quotes to say what you want them to, you should know that Don. Gallup came up with their own non-conclusion conclusion:



> *Bottom Line*
> 
> While it will take many years to fully assess President Obama's legacy, these results provide an initial indication of how the American public sees his eight years in office. At the moment, Americans are more negative than positive on the progress made on the majority of issues tested.


It is not so "black and white" and time will tell and we all know how accurate polls are these days so please do not try to pretend that this article or the Gallup poll represents any kind of "reality". It is just opinion, not fact or reality.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Did you actually read the original Gallup poll and not just the selective interpretation of a far right nut bar?
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the full Gallup poll for those that want to dig a little deeper than their right pocket looking for change.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans Assess Progress Under Obama
> 
> 
> 
> The country is clearly divided as we all know.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another selective quote from Gallup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See it is easy to manipulate quotes to say what you want them to, you should know that Don. Gallup came up with their own non-conclusion conclusion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not so "black and white" and time will tell and we all know how accurate polls are these days so please do not try to pretend that this article or the Gallup poll represents any kind of "reality". It is just opinion, not fact or reality.



Political preferences are actually hard-wired in our brains, Screature. You have about as much chance of success in persuading our alt-right friends as you would have had thirty years convincing a smoker that cigarettes are addictive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I grew up in a household with parents somewhat left of me. What they said seemed reasonable to me as a child, but by the time I finished high school, experience in the real world convinced me otherwise. There was no hard wiring, but more a putting away of childish things. I have seen many people switching quickly or gradually from left to right, but I have never personally witnessed the reverse.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Political preferences are actually hard-wired in our brains, Screature. You have about as much chance of success in persuading our alt-right friends as you would have had thirty years convincing a smoker that cigarettes are addictive.


----------



## Dr.G.

8 ways we've changed since the last time we had a new president - CNN.com

Interesting changes in only 8 years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Be careful what you wish for. 



> ‘It’s blindsided everybody’: New U.S. border tax could shut out Canadian oil
> 
> Canadian oil and gas producers happy to see the end of the Obama era are quickly coming to the realization that the imminent Trump presidency could be even more challenging if he moves forward with the adoption of a border adjustment tax.
> 
> While other Canadian sectors have been vocal in condemning the proposal, “no sector … will be more affected than petroleum,” according to Colorado-based energy expert Philip Verleger, who has been studying the recommended U.S. tax code changes since last summer.
> 
> Verleger, principal of consultancy PKVerleger LLC, believes Canadian exporters of oil and oil products are in for a nasty surprise.
> 
> “Bluntly speaking, for oil the law’s passage is pure mercantilism. Exporters from Mexico, Canada, and the rest of the world could be shut out,” Verleger writes this week in a report to clients. “As Woody Allen would say, ‘Sorry, suckers’.”
> 
> The border tax proposal is part of a tax reform spearheaded by Paul Ryan, speaker of the House of Representatives, and Kevin Brady, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
> 
> Under the proposal, businesses that rely on imported inputs would lose the ability to deduct their costs in computing their taxable income.
> 
> The reform would effectively increase the cost of imported goods by 25 per cent, push up the price of oil produced in the U.S. and of U.S. petroleum products, and depress the price of imported oil, Verleger said in a paper for The Brattle Group, a U.S. consultancy.
> 
> The reform would slam Canadian oil producers hard because they export more oil to the U.S. — three million barrels a day — than any other country. Canada imports about 300,000 barrels a day from the U.S. to supply refineries in Central and Eastern Canada.
> 
> Surging U.S. oil production from tight oil discoveries means Canadian oil is not as vital as it used to be to meet U.S. demand. This month, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said in its 2017 energy outlook that the U.S., a net energy importer since 1953, is on a path to become a net energy exporter in the next decade.
> 
> The tax could could change oil flows between the two countries completely, Verleger said. U.S. producers would have the incentive to sell at home and no incentive to export.
> 
> The proposed changes and their impacts are just now beginning to dawn on the Canadian oil industry.
> 
> “It’s blindsided everybody,” Verleger said in an interview. “Canadian producers should be worried.”
> 
> Among the most impacted could be New Brunswick-based Irving Oil Ltd., which refines oil in Saint John and exports it to the U.S. East Coast, as well as Canadian oilsands companies with refineries in the U.S.
> 
> The tax would make Trump’s promised approval of the Keystone XL pipeline to link the Alberta oilsands with U.S. coast refineries less attractive, since the refineries would lose the incentive to buy imported Canadian oil.
> 
> AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta
> AP Photo/Manuel Balce CenetaHouse Speaker Paul Ryan
> 
> Indeed, Verleger said KXL would make sense under the new tax regime only if it continues as a pipeline to export Canadian oil from the U.S. Gulf.
> 
> A senior Canadian oil executive said the prospect of the border tax means a new layer of uncertainty.
> 
> Already, Canadian oil and gas companies are struggling to stay competitive with U.S. producers due to new carbon taxes in Alberta, a cap on oilsands emissions and methane reduction regulations that Trump is unlikely to match.
> 
> Recognizing the major impacts, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump told the Wall Street Journal Friday that the border adjustment provision is “too complicated.”
> 
> Martin King, the director of institutional research at Calgary-based GMP FirstEnergy, said Tuesday the economic implications of such a tax are likely to dissuade Trump, as consumers would ultimately push back against rising consumer prices.
> 
> “It’s unclear how that’s going to shakeout, and the U.S. is still very dependent on Canadian crude oil imports, it’s still very dependent on natural gas imports from Canada,” King said. “That’s going to have to be clear to them, that it’s just going to make prices higher for everyone in the United States.”
> 
> There are other dangers for the U.S. in relying so heavily on domestic production. Tight oil reservoirs are prolific and costs are decreasing, but production history remains short and whether production will continue to grow is a big question mark. U.S. companies have invested heavily in Canada and its energy infrastructure to the U.S. The tax would boost U.S. energy costs and discourage the repatriation of manufacturing. Environmental opposition to fracking is fierce.
> 
> Even if the border tax goes ahead, the proposal re-enforces that Canada needs to double-down to separate itself from U.S. politics, and its first step is to build Kinder Morgan’s TransMountain expansion so it can export its oil to Asia.
> 
> Financial Post
> 
> cc[email protected]
> 
> twitter.com/cattaneooutwest


http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/n...ew-u-s-border-tax-could-shut-out-canadian-oil


----------



## Macfury

Yup:



> Already, Canadian oil and gas companies are struggling to stay competitive with U.S. producers due to new carbon taxes in Alberta, a cap on oilsands emissions and methane reduction regulations that Trump is unlikely to match.


However, Ryan and Trump are at loggerheads on most issues. Why worry about "maybe" policies when the real threats to Canadian oil and gas have been Notley and Trudeau?


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVangYF8bko[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

*Idiot Tasked With Maintaining America's Nukes Surprised to Learn What His Job Is*









In December, Rick Perry enthusiastically accepted the nomination to be Donald Trump’s secretary of energy—unfortunately for both Perry and the American people, he had no idea what the **** he was signing up for. According to a New York Times report, Perry originally believed the job was being “a global ambassador for the American oil and gas industry.”

It’s not.

In fact, two-thirds of the Energy Department’s budget is spent on maintaining and protecting our nuclear arsenal, which Perry clearly doesn’t know much about. In his 2012 bid for the GOP nomination, Perry proposed abolishing the Energy Department before forgetting what it was even called.

Now this dunce will likely be in charge our country’s most powerful weapons. This is sure to go just fine.

** * *​*
On Thursday, Perry will begin the confirmation process for energy secretary. If approved, he’ll be taking over for former MIT physics chairman, Ernest J. Moniz. The Times notes:


> For Mr. Moniz, the future of nuclear science has been a lifelong obsession; he spent his early years working at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. Mr. Perry studied animal husbandry and led cheers at Texas A&M University.


Perry has no experience making high-powered national security issues. He once said of the organization, “They’ve never created one bit of energy, the best I can tell.”​(Gizmodo)​


----------



## Macfury

Will be happy to see Moniz, the dope who helped broker the "give Iran nuclear weapons" deal leave the post.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Will be happy to see Moniz, the dope who helped broker the "give Iran nuclear weapons" deal leave the post.


Oh, sure. Everyone can see it. Perry will be a HUGE step up from Moniz.

:yikes:


----------



## Macfury

Chu was slightly better than Moniz, but his obsession with greenhouse gases was a major detriment.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump's EPA pick Scott Pruitt now says global warming not a hoax*









Nominees for Donald Trump's cabinet faced tough questions during confirmation hearings on Wednesday, where his pick to head the Environmental Protection Agency said climate change is real, breaking with his own past statements and those of the president-elect.

In response to questions from Democrats, Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt said he disagreed with Trump's earlier claims that global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese to harm the economic competitiveness of the United States.

"I do not believe climate change is a hoax," Pruitt said.

** * *​*
At the hearing before the Senate energy and public works committee, Pruitt conceded that human activity contributes "in some manner" to climate change. He continued, however, to question whether the burning of fossil fuels is the primary reason.

** * *​*
Pressed by Democratic Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont to answer in detail about his beliefs about climate change, Pruitt responded that his personal opinion was "immaterial" to how he would enforce environmental laws.

In his current post, Pruitt joined a multi-state lawsuit opposing the Obama administration's plan to limit planet-warming carbon emissions from coal-fired power plants. Pruitt also sued over the EPA's recent expansion of water bodies regulated under the Clean Water Act. It has been opposed by industries that would be forced to clean up polluted wastewater.​
(cbc)


----------



## Macfury

Admitting that climate "changes" is the way they get around the ninnies.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Idiot Tasked With Maintaining America's Nukes Surprised to Learn What His Job Is*


You realize of course, this thinly-researched hit piece relies on a single Republican source, who was ousted from Trump's transition team before Perry arrived.

Way to go NYT!


----------



## Dr.G.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDOo3v2ntHI&sns=fb[/ame]

The countdown begins. What the future holds is anyone's guess. We shall see.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

WATCH: Rick Perry Jokes He Hopes Sen. Al Franken Is As Much Fun 'As You Were On Your Couch' : NPR

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> WATCH: Rick Perry Jokes He Hopes Sen. Al Franken Is As Much Fun 'As You Were On Your Couch' : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



At least he admits Saturday Night Live has an influence on people. Because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and doggone it—people like him!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> At least he admits Saturday Night Live has an influence on people. Because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and doggone it—people like him!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lmao:

Well, let's see if Trump fires Perry for his SNL comments ............. or if Perry dissolves the Dept. of Energy first. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Want to stop Trump? Copy Tea Party tactics, says Democratic group - Home | The Current with Anna Maria Tremonti | CBC Radio

We shall see.


----------



## SINC

Like it or not, Trump is the new president and nothing will ever change that. Americans elected him and that is that. Protesters are in fact protesting nothing more than their own system. All Americans will have to settle down and endure Trump's four years at a minimum. The dimwits now protesting ought to be accused of being un American at least and not too bright at best.


----------



## Macfury

A lot of people were aware of the mediocre path Obama would take the country down, but they maintained their decorum during the inaugurations. This is strictly a Democrat-style response.



SINC said:


> Like it or not, Trump is the new president and nothing will ever change that. Americans elected him and that is that. Protesters are in fact protesting nothing more than their own system. All Americans will have to settle down and endure Trump's four years at a minimum. The dimwits now protesting ought to be accused of being un American at least and not too bright at best.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Like it or not, Trump is the new president and nothing will ever change that. Americans elected him and that is that. Protesters are in fact protesting nothing more than their own system. All Americans will have to settle down and endure Trump's four years at a minimum. The dimwits now protesting ought to be accused of being un American at least and not too bright at best.



Can we use that same logic here in Canada to describe the dimwits who continue to protest the Notley and Trudeau wins? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Nobody protested their wins--and even Notley's radical agenda attracts few protesters.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Can we use that same logic here in Canada to describe the dimwits who continue to protest the Notley and Trudeau wins?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Nobody protested their wins--and even Notley's radical agenda attracts few protesters.


Right. It is their policies they are protesting against. Dimwitted and destructive to Alberta. Trudeau's to the nation. They have no clue.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nobody protested their wins--and even Notley's radical agenda attracts few protesters.



I see people protesting on this forum pretty much everyday. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

SINC and I were discussing protests in a form similar to the demonstrations in Washington. Not simple expression of disagreement. That said, I would call EhMac a discussion site, not a "protest" site.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I see people protesting on this forum pretty much everyday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> SINC and I were discussing protests in a form similar to the demonstrations in Washington. Not simple expression of disagreement. That said, I would call EhMac a discussion site, not a "protest" site.



You've been protesting the election of both Notley and Trudeau for well over a year now. The irony is just....well, let's leave it at that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Well, an accidental election result is a rare thing and therefore prompts discussion until the correction occurs in another two years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, an accidental election result is a rare thing and therefore prompts discussion until the correction occurs in another two years.



So you agree you've been protesting the Alberta election results for nearly two years now.


----------



## Macfury

No, I haven't protested their election. That might have been you blathering about the popular vote in the US when "Madame President" failed to win the electoral college.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You've been protesting the election of both Notley and Trudeau for well over a year now. The irony is just....well, let's leave it at that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, I haven't protested their election. That might have been you blathering about the popular vote in the US when "Madame President" failed to win the electoral college.



Really? You mean you haven't been complaining about the election of both Rachel Notley and Justin Trudeau like a sore loser for well over a year now? Boy, the shoe on the other foot does not seem to fit so well.


----------



## Macfury

A few years ago, progs on EhMac were crowing about the simple math--California Governor Jerry brown had simply raised taxes and "fixed" the budget deficit. California is now reaping the fruits of that strategy as budget deficits follow decreased revenue:

California&apos;s budget deficit is back, Gov. Jerry Brown says - LA Times


----------



## Dr.G.

What a JFK tweet might have looked like.

"The torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans - born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace.... We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe.... Ask not what your country can do for you. ...."


----------



## Macfury

That's twice the character limit.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's twice the character limit.


True ............ but JFK was more than twice the person re presidential quality than Trump. We shall just have to wait and see what Trump's address will say. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Even Archie Bunker is having second thoughts about what he did by casting his vote for Trump.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> So you agree you've been protesting the Alberta election results for nearly two years now.


No, read the comment you quoted from me. *Discussion* was the word used.


----------



## CubaMark

The s***show has begun.

Catch it live at CTV News:

LIVE: The Inauguration of Donald J. Trump | CTV News


----------



## FeXL

What a great day!!!

Oh, and Bill's Wife will never be president...


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> It is their policies they are protesting against.


x1000.

The democratic process is the democratic process. A win is a win. I'll accept the fact that people win elections, whether they appeal in any way, shape, form or not.

However, their policies are open season & no bag limit.

Unlike the Progs, who are going into conniptions to avoid the outcome of due process. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt anymore...


----------



## CubaMark

The religious prayers are being delivered - with somebody named "Paula White" from the "New Destiny Christian Center" delivering the third of the invocations. So of course I had to Google her/it. Apparently she's Trump's personal spiritual advisor (oh god, literally)... another of the wealthy televangelists who've been a blight on U.S. religion in recent decades. More on her ministry and concerns that her prominent position will push "prosperity gospel" to the fore...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The religious prayers are being delivered - with somebody named "Paula White" from the "New Destiny Christian Center" delivering the third of the invocations. So of course I had to Google her/it. Apparently she's Trump's personal spiritual advisor (oh god, literally)... another of the wealthy televangelists who've been a blight on U.S. religion in recent decades. More on her ministry and concerns that her prominent position will push "prosperity gospel" to the fore...


Give me a break. with these micro-criticisms. If you had been this critical of Obama you would have had some cred...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Give me a break.


If all the criticism the Progs can muster is Trump's inauguration entertainment & his choice of prayer-deliverers, they don't have a helluva lot to be critical of...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> If all the criticism the Progs can muster is Trump's inauguration entertainment & his choice of prayer-deliverers, they don't have a helluva lot to be critical of...


How very short (by nature or by intent) are your memories. We've been critical of Trump since the day he entered the race. Do you want us to continue to repeat the same old things? No, because then you'd be complaining about that. 

The slow-motion train wreck begins today. Let's see how many tanker cars go off into the municipal water supply....

XX)


----------



## FeXL

Please, do. I never tire of reading the same old Prog talking points, the narrative or the pure, undiluted horse$h!t that you guys cobble together. Ya had nuttin' then and ya got nuttin' now. Go for it...



CubaMark said:


> Do you want us to continue to repeat the same old things?


----------



## Macfury

Notice that Trump barely mentioned himself in his speech. He's the anti-Obama in every way.


----------



## Dr.G.

"So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate. 

Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us. " Pres. John Kennedy


----------



## Macfury

Bonus!

All References to ‘Climate Change’ Deleted From White House Website at Noon Today | Climate Depot


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Bonus!
> 
> All References to ‘Climate Change’ Deleted From White House Website at Noon Today | Climate Depot


I have no problem with the concept of climate change. Climate is by definition dynamic. The idiotic notion that it should be static, and that man is the cause of it not being static is what irritates me.

Climate change has become a euphemism for Man Made Global Warming, a BS concept whose hockey stick graph was shattered by a 20 year warming hiatus. Then just when it looked like it might be given a temporary el Nino reprieve, was further dashed by some very brutal cold snaps.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> No, read the comment you quoted from me. *Discussion* was the word used.



I don't see much discussion. I do see a lot of complaining however. Your comment on the American election is for the losing side to stop complaining and accept defeat, yet here you are, nearly two years later, still unable to accept defeat. Trump won the EC fair and square, you say. Well he did, just like the NDP won the majority of seats in Alberta, fair and square, and still the use the term "accidental." Sounds a lot like a protest to me. And so your comment about dimwits seems rather ironic, since there is no way you would possibly use the term to describe yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

What don't you get? Everyone here thinks the NDP election was fair. Nobody is protesting the election.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't see much discussion. I do see a lot of complaining however. Your comment on the American election is for the losing side to stop complaining and accept defeat, yet here you are, nearly two years later, still unable to accept defeat. Trump won the EC fair and square, you say. Well he did, just like the NDP won the majority of seats in Alberta, fair and square, and still the use the term "accidental." Sounds a lot like a protest to me. And so your comment about dimwits seems rather ironic, since there is no way you would possibly use the term to describe yourself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What don't you get? Everyone here thinks the NDP election was fair. Nobody is protesting the election.


What he doesn't get is that both elections were won due to dissatisfaction with the status quo.

Both also have logical explanations. Both are also self-evident. Funny how he can accept one & not the other. The only difference is the scale of the win. Rachel never came close to 50% of the popular vote.

Ideologue, much?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What don't you get? Everyone here thinks the NDP election was fair. Nobody is protesting the election.



Every time someone calls it an "accidental" election win, they are protesting the results of the election. I certainly haven't seen the protests here disappear. Or do you suppose one can only protest by rioting in the streets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What he doesn't get is that both elections were won due to dissatisfaction with the status quo.
> 
> 
> 
> Both also have logical explanations. Both are also self-evident. Funny how he can accept one & not the other. The only difference is the scale of the win. Rachel never came close to 50% of the popular vote.
> 
> 
> 
> Ideologue, much?



Clearly, he has no idea how the popular vote works in a multiparty representative democracy. When there are more than two parties running and each commands a fairly sizeable following, 39% of the popular vote is quite a strong showing. Not only that, but a vast majority of the seats in Alberta went to the NDP. But still he and the other dimwits dismiss the Alberta election as "accidental" despite the fact that Trump won exactly the same way in the US. If the whiners and the butthurt alt-right snowflakes here can't let it go going on two years later, why should the protests stop south of the border? Talk about hypocrisy.


----------



## FeXL

"But the right split the vooooote..."

"Bill's Wife got 3 million more voooootes than Trump..."

"Waaaaaaah..."



Freddie_Biff said:


> 39% of the popular vote is quite a strong showing...
> Not only that, but a vast majority of the seats in Alberta went to the NDP.


I've never said it was an accident. I've explained, clearly & concisely, the reason it happened & exactly why it'll never happen again.



Freddie_Biff said:


> But still he and the other dimwits dismiss the Alberta election as "accidental"


Look, if you're going to use my words, at least give me credit for them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...Trump won exactly the same way in the US.


Hypocrites? Nobody here is complaining about how Red Rachel won. We all know how she won, save you (despite your sudden & recent acceptance of protest votes).

Everybody who is critical of her is referencing her <snort> policies.

This is in direct opposition to the Progs & Rino's who are directly referencing Trump's win & refusing to accept him as POTUS. Red Rachel is indeed my premiere. And, her policies suck.

As always, you look but never really see. You listen, but never really hear.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If the whiners and the butthurt alt-right snowflakes here can't let it go going on two years later, why should the protests stop south of the border? Talk about hypocrisy.


----------



## Macfury

Nope--accidental refers to an unfortunate series of events in which people cast protest votes, believing that few others were doing the same. Their intention was not to see an incompetent such as Notley elected premiere--but simply to punish a local MLA or party leader.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Every time someone calls it an "accidental" election win, they are protesting the results of the election. I certainly haven't seen the protests here disappear. Or do you suppose one can only protest by rioting in the streets?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Nope--accidental refers to an unfortunate series of events in which people cast protest votes, believing that few others were doing the same. Their intention was not to see an incompetent such as Notley elected premiere--but simply to punish a local MLA or party leader.


Exactly what it is. Some folks cannot grasp the concept.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Another disaffected snowflake! Keep 'em coming, Freddie--this is like fine wine to me!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Another disaffected snowflake! Keep 'em coming, Freddie--this is like fine wine to me!



Sorry, Macfury. Didn't know you were a Three Doors Down fan. No offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry, Macfury. Didn't know you were a Three Doors Down fan. No offense.


The line almost works, but would work better if I had not mentioned snowflakes. My tastes run off the mainstream charts, so that I had heard of the band, but didn't know a single one of their songs. I played most of _Kryptonite_ a minute ago but found it dull and I killed the video before it finished.


----------



## Macfury

An LA artist, "Sabo" put these great posters up around the city in the wake of the anti-Trump march:

Inauguration: Street Artist Targets Hollywood Anti-Trumpers With '24' Spoof Posters | Hollywood Reporter


----------



## Dr.G.

Andrew Coyne: Protectionist Trump speech signals an America looking inward | National Post

An interesting article written by Andrew Coyne.


----------



## Macfury

Coyne is a really pleasant guy, but his pivot to the left has made these columns sound increasingly unconvincing. He's tossing out statistics that he knows to be misleading to make his vague point.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The line almost works, but would work better if I had not mentioned snowflakes. My tastes run off the mainstream charts, so that I had heard of the band, but didn't know a single one of their songs. I played most of _Kryptonite_ a minute ago but found it dull and I killed the video before it finished.



You're in good company. Most people don't know a single one of their songs. I can think of a couple by Three Dog Night, however.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You're in good company. Most people don't know a single one of their songs. I can think of a couple by Three Dog Night, however.


Wikipedia was my friend--helped me to choose their best-selling song to listen to.

(_The Show Must Go On._)


----------



## FeXL

But...she must have an ulterior motive!!! It's obvious she has tax problems she is attempting to avoid!!! Jedi mind trick!!! :yikes:

Trump's education secretary won't take a salary from taxpayers



> At her Senate confirmation hearing Tuesday, President-elect Trump's selection to lead the Education Department, Betsy DeVos, said she won't accept a salary, assuming she's confirmed for the job.
> 
> "If confirmed, I will only take a salary of $1, to be official, but I don't intend to take a salary either," DeVos said.


----------



## FeXL

I savour the tears of their despair...

8 Most Unhinged Inaugural Media Meltdowns



> Donald Trump is now the 45th president of the United States, having been sworn in by John Roberts, chief justice of the United States.
> 
> At least the hysterical denial and anger from his detractors and the media is over. Maybe.
> 
> But as the moment approached, many in the mainstream media could not help themselves and disgraced journalism and themselves with over-the-top pronouncements of alarm and bitterness.
> 
> They fretted. They sweated. They worried. And, of course, they made outrageous comments about Trump as the sand in the hourglass ran out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Good morning, America, how are ya!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

And to help celebrate the peaceful transition of power in the US, let us remember These inspirational words of the 45th President: 

“I did try and fukc her. She was married… I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's not got the big phony tits and everything... I've got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.” - Donald Trump, The 45th President of the United States, just trying his best to make America great again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

A little late to post this, but it does make Obama's critics look all the more foolish....


----------



## Dr.G.

Amazing rallies across the US and Canada. Reminds me of the anti-war rallies in the late 60s -- peaceful with a clear message. Hopefully, Pres. Trump will heed the message in a way that Pres. Nixon never did. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> A little late to post this, but it does make Obama's critics look all the more foolish....


Why would this make his critics look foolish? It's largely a straw man list. He did enough real damage.

Regarding the cartoon--yeah people will really miss a $10,000 policy covering conditions they don't want covered with a $10,000 deductible.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Amazing rallies across the US and Canada. Reminds me of the anti-war rallies in the late 60s -- peaceful with a clear message. Hopefully, Pres. Trump will heed the message in a way that Pres. Nixon never did. We shall see.


It looks like a very fractured message to me. People I know have backed off attending because the purpose of the demonstration has been co-opted so many times. As far as I can tell, they are just angry because Trump was elected.

They should have protested when Obama demanded regime change in Egypt, Syria, and Libya. Now they're protesting the president who says we have no business being in those countries? It isn't like the anti-war protests at all.


----------



## FeXL

Peaceful? :yikes:

You really need to source other news sites, my friend.



Dr.G. said:


> ...peaceful...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It looks like a very fractured message to me. People I know have backed off attending because the purpose of the demonstration has been co-opted so many times. As far as I can tell, they are just angry because Trump was elected.


You need to listen a bit better, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## FeXL

'Cause Barry did this all the time.

Trump Offers Father Down on His Luck $10,000 Check at Inaugural Event



> A FedEx courier and former security guard from Illinois was surprised with an invitation to meet with Donald Trump after the President-elect saw a story on the struggling single father. But the special meeting wasn’t the only surprise. The young man was stunned when Trump presented him with a check for $10,000.


Purdy nice for a Nazi...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Peaceful? :yikes:
> 
> You really need to source other news sites, my friend.


Just watch CNN and they have overhead shots of the marches all over the US and in Europe. Not a single incident of violence has been reported.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Amazing rallies across the US and Canada. Reminds me of the anti-war rallies in the late 60s -- peaceful with a clear message. Hopefully, Pres. Trump will heed the message in a way that Pres. Nixon never did. We shall see.


Anti-Trump protests held across the United States | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You need to listen a bit better, mon ami. Paix.


Set it down in plain English in 15 words or less.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Just watch CNN <snip>


I would rather clean out a month old cat box with my tongue.

Just two examples of several I've seen.

Violence flares in Washington during Trump inauguration

Montreal anti-Trump demonstration ends in vandalism

With all respect, Dr.G, stay the hell away from CNN. It will rot your mind & I'd hate to see that happen to you...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I savour the tears of their despair...


Pre-inauguration, my favourite was the snowflake demanding they call an ambulance when Trump was elected.

This is my favourite post-inauguration so far:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> It looks like a very fractured message to me. People I know have backed off attending because the purpose of the demonstration has been co-opted so many times. As far as I can tell, they are just angry because Trump was elected.
> 
> They should have protested when Obama demanded regime change in Egypt, Syria, and Libya. Now they're protesting the president who says we have no business being in those countries? It isn't like the anti-war protests at all.


Seems to me that protesters in both countries are really protesting against the system of democracy in America. Ballots counted, electoral votes counted, Trump won as per their own constitution. It was fellow Americans who made the decision that Trump become their president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Anti-Trump protests held across the United States | Daily Mail Online


Yes, that was from yesterday. Those jerks looked for media attention and they got it. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Set it down in plain English in 15 words or less.


Just listen .............


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I would rather clean out a month old cat box with my tongue.
> 
> Just two examples of several I've seen.
> 
> Violence flares in Washington during Trump inauguration
> 
> Montreal anti-Trump demonstration ends in vandalism
> 
> With all respect, Dr.G, stay the hell away from CNN. It will rot your mind & I'd hate to see that happen to you...


Global TV here in Canada had some nice shots of the peaceful crowds here in Canada and the US.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Pre-inauguration, my favourite was the snowflake demanding they call an ambulance when Trump was elected.
> 
> This is my favourite post-inauguration so far:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Luckily, true liberal progressives are not like that, mon ami. There are some who are true "snowflakes", as you call them, but most are clear thinking and positive acting persons who love America/Canada/et al and want to move their country forward. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Seems to me that protesters in both countries are really protesting against the system of democracy in America. Ballots counted, electoral votes counted, Trump won as per their own constitution. It was fellow Americans who made the decision that Trump become their president.


No, they are protesting FOR the system of democracy, and luckily the US Constitution protects peaceful protests like the ones that are taking place today, thus ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of speech, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. The Constitution is a great document, a living document. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...y.html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-local%2Bnational

Well, there goes the march. Of course, Pres. Trump could defuse all the marches with a tweet saying "I am with all of you. Right on, sisters and brothers. Power to the People. On Monday, your voices shall be heard." 

Now THAT would be VERY presidential on his part, standing up for human and civil rights. What a beautiful thought. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...y.html?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-local%2Bnational
> 
> Well, there goes the march. Of course, Pres. Trump could defuse all the marches with a tweet saying "I am with all of you. Right on, sisters and brothers. Power to the People. On Monday, your voices shall be heard."
> 
> Now THAT would be VERY presidential on his part, standing up for human and civil rights. What a beautiful thought. Paix, mes amis.


Presidential disdain for human and civil rights in this Millennium has been painfully obvious. Were Donald to risk CIA assassination efforts and attempt to reverse that, it would be monumental. 

However I will stick with my initial thoughts and say the only change will be more of the same. Would love to be proven wrong on this, but I'm not gonna hold my breath or tongue in the interim.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Presidential disdain for human and civil rights in this Millennium has been painfully obvious. Were Donald to risk CIA assassination efforts and attempt to reverse that, it would be monumental.
> 
> However I will stick with my initial thoughts and say the only change will be more of the same. Would love to be proven wrong on this, but I'm not gonna hold my breath or tongue in the interim.


Interesting point, mon ami. Not sure about CIA "assassination efforts", but if he were to suddenly become a true populist/progressive president, yes, that would be "monumental". We shall see. Paix.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Frank, this should really be in the Canadian Political thread. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I recall the massive march that accompanied the re-election of serial predator Bill Clinton. Oh, wait a minute. These marches only occur against Republicans--like clockwork.

That said, today's protests appear to be extremely vulgar, but peaceful.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, this should really be in the Canadian Political thread. Paix, mon ami.



Nope. There are sister marches well beyond the borders of the USA in solidarity with the March in Washington. Definitely fits well here, but it fits in the Canadian thread too. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. There are sister marches well beyond the borders of the USA in solidarity with the March in Washington. Definitely fits well here, but it fits in the Canadian thread too. Paix, mon ami.


I see your point. I just thought that since it was only an Edmonton pic, it would be better placed in the Canadian Political thread. Still, a march in favor of human and civil rights is well placed wherever it is posted. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Wow. Power to the People in pictures.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Global TV here in Canada had some nice shots of the peaceful crowds here in Canada and the US.


'Course they did, my friend.. They push the same narrative that CNN wants you to see. 

Were there peaceful protests? Yes! Were there violent protests? Absolutely! Not going to find much about the latter on the MSM, however.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> 'Course they did, my friend.. They push the same narrative that CNN wants you to see.
> 
> Were there peaceful protests? Yes! Were there violent protests? Absolutely! Not going to find much about the latter on the MSM, however.


Well, Global, CTV and CBC all showed peaceful marches all over Canada. What other TV stations are there in Canada that are national?


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> No, they are protesting FOR the system of democracy, and luckily the US Constitution protects peaceful protests like the ones that are taking place today, thus ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of speech, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.


So, exactly who is attempting to take any of that away from the American people?

Trump was duly elected via a democracy and has proceeded as American democracy allows.

The constitution does not endorse violent protests like we have seen from the left, not only during Trump's candidacy, but as president-elect and during Trump's inauguration.

No one is preventing free speech, as stupid, clueless, antagonistic and outright ignorant as some of the left has been.

Nobody is restricting "governmental redress of grievances".

Who is this boogey-man of which you speak? 

In Trump's inauguration speech, he specifically noted:



> “We are transferring power from Washington, D.C. and giving it back to you, the people,”


Power to the people. Sounds like he's your man, Dr.G...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> 'Course they did, my friend.. They push the same narrative that CNN wants you to see.
> 
> Were there peaceful protests? Yes! Were there violent protests? Absolutely! Not going to find much about the latter on the MSM, however.



FeXL, I get these Canadian TV stations -- CBC , CTV, Global, TVA (a French language network based in Quebec) and APTN (a non-profit Aboriginal service ). What am I missing?


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> What other TV stations are there in Canada that are national?


In your post that I originally replied to, your observations led me to believe that you were unaware of any violent protests on inauguration day.

The point is, there _were_ violent protests executed by the left on inauguration day (one mere blocks from the ceremony in DC) that were not covered by MSM.

Why? That's the question we should all be asking ourselves. 

I understand that you are a dyed-in-the-wool ideologue. Fine. Even so, surely you cannot ignore such blatant displays of partisanship in what should otherwise be fair & balanced news. Does none of this raise any eyebrows for you?

Are you really entirely confortable with being spoon fed precisely what the MSM wants you to know and nothing more, truth, accuracy & the rest of the story be damned?


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> What am I missing?


Much, my friend.

We can start with truth & accuracy. Something the MSM, both sides of 49, is particularly short on these days...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> In your post that I originally replied to, your observations led me to believe that you were unaware of any violent protests on inauguration day.
> 
> The point is, there _were_ violent protests executed by the left on inauguration day (one mere blocks from the ceremony in DC) that were not covered by MSM.
> 
> Why? That's the question we should all be asking ourselves.
> 
> I understand that you are a dyed-in-the-wool ideologue. Fine. Even so, surely you cannot ignore such blatant displays of partisanship in what should otherwise be fair & balanced news. Does none of this raise any eyebrows for you?
> 
> Are you really entirely confortable with being spoon fed precisely what the MSM wants you to know and nothing more, truth, accuracy & the rest of the story be damned?


No, I saw and detested these sorts of protests. They were a small group of agitators who wanted to be seen doing this destruction. CNN gave them a great deal of coverage, much more than I thought that they deserved. 

I don't view MSM.com. I watch CBC, CTV, Global for Candian News, PBS, CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, for American news, and BBC for International perspectives.

I think that this provides me with a balanced overview of world events that I can then look at critically. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Much, my friend.
> 
> We can start with truth & accuracy. Something the MSM, both sides of 49, is particularly short on these days...


As I said, I don't watch MSM, either online or on TV. Let's agree to disagree with your contention that I am not getting a well-rounded exposure to world events. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> No, they are protesting FOR the system of democracy, and luckily the US Constitution protects peaceful protests like the ones that are taking place today, thus ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of speech, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. The Constitution is a great document, a living document. Paix, mon ami.


Sorry to disagree Dr. G., but this is the reality.


----------



## SINC

Funny how the truth always seeps through.

Billionaire George Soros has ties to more than 50 ‘partners’ of the Women’s March on Washington – Women in the World in Association with The New York Times – WITW


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Funny how the truth always seeps through.
> 
> Billionaire George Soros has ties to more than 50 ‘partners’ of the Women’s March on Washington – Women in the World in Association with The New York Times – WITW


So Soros has now set his overthrow sights on Washington DC. Actually he was already helping finance Black Lives Matter protests. Personally I am 99.999% certain if Soros is involved then the motive behind his involvement is seditious.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Sorry to disagree Dr. G., but this is the reality.


I agree with you here, Sinc. This was NOT peaceful protesting during the Inauguration. Luckily, it was not widespread and was contained to two city blocks. That yellow car picture actually was from the riots in North Carolina last year. 

As well, today, with much larger crowds across the US, there was NO violence. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> I don't view MSM.com.


Sorry, Dr.G.: MSM is an acronym meaning Main Stream Media.

Precisely the group of media companies who are little more than distributors of leftist agitprop, if not outright lying about events, then lying by omission. None of them is fair & balanced and none of them is to be trusted for the truth.

The list of sources you provided is little more than subjecting yourself to greater grief.

Find yourself some nice, accurate blogs with no skin in the game. They'll be as accurate as anybody & more objective, too.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. And without violence. Imagine that...

Inauguration: Street Artist Targets Hollywood Anti-Trumpers With '24' Spoof Posters



> A conservative street artist famous for lampooning liberal Hollywood is celebrating the inauguration of President Donald Trump at an anti-Trump rally Friday in Los Angeles using faux posters of Fox’s revival of the hit TV show _24_.


More:



> Friday’s assault on Hollywood liberalism is one of Sabo’s most ambitious ever because it includes multiple locations and posters. On a bench, for example, is a piece of art reading “The End of an Error,” referring to President Barack Obama. Later Friday, he also tossed off of a tall building in Los Angeles 2,000 small fliers with the word “losers” on them, aiming them at the anti-Trump protesters below. Some of the "losers" fliers stuck to the top of the umbrellas used by the protesters on a very rainy day in Southern California.


Lovin' it...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> FeXL, I get these Canadian TV stations -- CBC , CTV, Global, TVA (a French language network based in Quebec) and APTN (a non-profit Aboriginal service ). What am I missing?



Apparently FeXL is of the opinion that the only worthwhile news comes from Ezra Levant and the Rebel Media. And perhaps Breitbart in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The biggest, peaceful, non-violent protest in US history, one day after Trump's inauguration. This is going to grab him by the pussy. 










http://www.politicususa.com/2017/01...test-history-estimated-2-4-million-march.html


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Sorry, Dr.G.: MSM is an acronym meaning Main Stream Media.
> 
> Precisely the group of media companies who are little more than distributors of leftist agitprop, if not outright lying about events, then lying by omission. None of them is fair & balanced and none of them is to be trusted for the truth.
> 
> The list of sources you provided is little more than subjecting yourself to greater grief.
> 
> Find yourself some nice, accurate blogs with no skin in the game. They'll be as accurate as anybody & more objective, too.


Oh, now I see the meaning of MSM. Never knew that. Thanks for the clarification. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The biggest, peaceful, non-violent protest in US history, one day after Trump's inauguration. This is going to grab him by the pussy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women's March Is The Biggest Protest In US History As An Estimated 2.9 Million March


Absolutely amazing. Still, in all fairness of reporting, there were four arrests in the US at four of the marches. To me, that is more amazing. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Anyone want to go into business with me, thanks to The Donald the black balaclava business will sky rocket! The only draw back is I have to find a manufacturer in the U.S.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Anyone want to go into business with me, thanks to The Donald the black balaclava business will sky rocket! The only draw back is I have to find a manufacturer in the U.S.


A fine idea, mon ami. I am sure that there are still manufacturers in the US.


----------



## FeXL

Apparently, you don't have a f'ing clew.

Strike that. It's patently obvious.

And, as weak as you claim it is, you have even less to refute it with...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently...


----------



## Macfury

It was essentially group therapy for the devastating loss suffered by Hillary Clinton. it will have no effect beyond that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The biggest, peaceful, non-violent protest in US history, one day after Trump's inauguration. This is going to grab him by the pussy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Refute this.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not refuting the collective agony of the losers. It was the biggest pity party on record.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Refute this.


Actually, the marches were more for positive and progressive causes of human and civil rights than to march against Trump. His latest tweet this morning actually was positive, so maybe we can all get into line and support the causes he advances that actually help people/the environment/etc. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, the marches were more for positive and progressive causes of human and civil rights than to march against Trump.


I entirely disagree. Anti-Trump, down to the last warm body.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I entirely disagree. Anti-Trump, down to the last warm body.


Guess we were looking at different marches, FeXL. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, the marches were more for positive and progressive causes of human and civil rights than to march against Trump. His latest tweet this morning actually was positive, so maybe we can all get into line and support the causes he advances that actually help people/the environment/etc. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



Which tweet would that be? The one I read denounced the protesters and the dishonest media for claiming the crowds for his inauguration, much like his hands, were not as big as his people claim. Also note that it was Trump who brought up Nazi Germany.



> Aaron P. Bernstein/Getty Images
> 
> Donald Trump tore into the media Saturday for pointing out that the crowd for his inauguration was smaller than the ones that turned out for Barack Obama, implausibly claiming that he had drawn as many as "a million-and-a-half" people.
> 
> And on Sunday morning, he seemed rattled by the Women's March on Washington, which appeared to have drawn larger crowds to the National Mall on Saturday than his inauguration did 24 hours earlier.
> 
> Story continues below advertisement
> 
> "Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn't these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly," Mr. Trump tweeted early Sunday, referencing Madonna, Ashley Judd and America Ferrera, who all addressed the rally.
> 
> Read more: Highlights from the Women's Marches around the world, and Trump's reaction
> 
> Read more: Hats off to the women: A look at the knitted pink headpieces that helped make protest history
> 
> As the March unfolded the previous day, Mr. Trump was at CIA headquarters in a Washington suburb. Standing in front of a memorial wall to dead CIA officers at the agency's headquarters, Mr. Trump told the assembled agents that reporters are "among the most dishonest human beings on Earth."
> 
> "I turn on one of the networks and they show an empty field. I say: 'Wait a minute. I made a speech. I looked out. The field was, it looked like a million, a million-and-a-half people,'" he said. "They showed a field where there was practically nobody standing there."
> 
> A pair of aerial photographs, widely circulated on Twitter and news websites, showed much larger gaps in Mr. Trump's crowd, particularly near the back, than in the crowd for Mr. Obama's first inauguration in 2009.
> 
> Story continues below advertisement
> 
> Washington's public transit system also noted that, as of 11 am on Inauguration Day, it had seen 193,000 trips – fewer than for either of Mr. Obama's inaugurations (513,000 in 2009 and 317,000 in 2013,) or George W. Bush's second inauguration in 2005 (197,000.) The Women's March also drew significantly more riders on transit, with the agency reporting 250,000 by 11 am.
> 
> Mr. Obama's first inauguration drew an estimated 1.8 million people to the National Mall, making Mr. Trump's claim of up to 1.5 million for his own event unlikely.
> 
> Mr. Trump was also irate about coverage of his public battle with intelligence officials probing Russian interference in the election that carried him to office.
> 
> "They sort of made it sound like I had a feud with the intelligence community. And I just want to let you know, the reason you're the number one stop is exactly the opposite," he said.
> 
> Story continues below advertisement
> 
> The President's fight with intelligence agencies has been public and well-documented. Earlier this month, after Buzzfeed published a report by a former British agent alleging ties between Mr. Trump's camp and Russian President Vladimir Putin's government, Mr. Trump accused American intelligence officials of leaking it, and equated them with the Nazis: "Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me. Are we living in Nazi Germany?" he tweeted.
> 
> Recently-departed CIA director John Brennan said Mr. Trump "should be ashamed of himself" for using the memorial wall as a backdrop for his political grand-standing. Through a spokesman, Mr. Brennan said he was "deeply saddened and angered at Donald Trump's despicable display of self-aggrandisement."
> 
> Later Sean Spicer, Mr. Trump's spokesman, repeated his boss's claims that the inaugural crowds were much larger than they actually were. At the new administration's first White House media briefing, Mr. Spicer spent nearly all of his five-and-a-half-minute statement berating reporters.
> 
> "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration – period – both in person and around the globe," he said.
> 
> Mr. Spicer accused the media of deliberately downplaying the size of the crowd to embarrass the President.
> 
> "These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong," he said, adding later: "The President is committed to unifying our country … this kind of dishonesty in the media, the challenging – that bringing about our nation together is making it more difficult."
> 
> Mr. Spicer, who read from a prepared text and occasionally seemed on the verge of shouting, appeared concerned about early reports that the Women's March on Washington had also surpassed Mr. Trump's inauguration in size.
> 
> "No one had numbers [for the inauguration] because the National Park Service, which controls the National Mall, does not put any out. By the way, this applies to any attempts to try to count the number of protestors today in the same fashion," he said.


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...http://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I entirely disagree. Anti-Trump, down to the last warm body.



Yes! We finally agree on something. Definitely anti-Trump, and for good reason.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Which tweet would that be? The one I read denounced the protesters and the dishonest media for claiming the crowds for his inauguration, much like his hands, were not as big as his people claim. Also note that it was Trump who brought up Nazi Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...http://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile


CNN reported this morning on this latest tweet, I believe from his POTUS account. It was very positive and supportive of the rights of Americans to voice their opinions. :clap: It was on the Jake Tapper program this morning, so go view a podcast of the show. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes! We finally agree on something. Definitely anti-Trump, and for good reason.


Well, I disagree with you both. Maybe you are using some of Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts"??  

Conway: Trump White House offered 'alternative facts' on crowd size - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Conway: Trump will not release tax returns - CNNPolitics.com

But he promised!!!!!!!!!!!! :greedy:tptptptp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> CNN reported this morning on this latest tweet, I believe from his POTUS account. It was very positive and supportive of the rights of Americans to voice their opinions. :clap: It was on the Jake Tapper program this morning, so go view a podcast of the show. Paix, mon ami.



There was more than one tweet in the subject. The first was pretty knee jerk reactionary; the second offered a more
measured response. Likely he was spoken to.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Conway: Trump will not release tax returns - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> But he promised!!!!!!!!!!!! :greedy:tptptptp



Hillary was right: either he's not as rich as he claims to be or he's not as charitable as he'd like people to believe. And he likely doesn't pay taxes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> There was more than one tweet in the subject. The first was pretty knee jerk reactionary; the second offered a more
> measured response. Likely he was spoken to.


That's it, Frank. The one four hours ago. Pres. Trump might becoming "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Tweet"? We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hillary was right: either he's not as rich as he claims to be or he's not as charitable as he'd like people to believe. And he likely doesn't pay taxes.


Sadly, we shall never know. tptptptp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, we shall never know. tptptptp



Oh, I think we already know. 

Here's Dan Rather's response to Trump. And remember, this is after ONE DAY on the job.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oh, I think we already know.
> 
> Here's Dan Rather's response to Trump. And remember, this is after ONE DAY on the job.


Dan Rather made some very valid points, Frank. He was never seen as the Walter Cronkite replacement, but then, no one could really have filled the shoes of WC, who was one of the most respected and honest newspersons in America at the time. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

“Fake news” is so yesterday. “Alternative facts” is where it's at now. :clap: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes! We finally agree on something. Definitely anti-Trump, and for good reason.


Sometimes The Most Unlikely Species Make For The Best Of Friends - abcdlyfe


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> “Fake news” is so yesterday. “Alternative facts” is where it's at now. :clap: :clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Now, play nice, Frank. Spicer was looking out at people, not candy. Of course, 1.5 million would have been three times the size of Woodstock, and THAT would have been quite the gathering.  Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Dan Rather .... was never seen as the Walter Cronkite replacement...


Does anyone else remember "What is the frequency, Kenneth?"


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump and Trudeau look 'forward to meeting soon' after Saturday phone chat - Politics - CBC News

This should prove to be an interesting meeting, with NAFTA, pipelines, soft lumber and cross-border trade/travel some important topics. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

“Fake news” is so yesterday. “Alternative facts” is where it's at now. Just wait until the first Labor Dept. job statistics are released and show that unemployment has been brought down to 0% .............. and that immigrants are needed to fill certain jobs. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Now, play nice, Frank. Spicer was looking out at people, not candy. Of course, 1.5 million would have been three times the size of Woodstock, and THAT would have been quite the gathering.  Paix, mon ami.



The world is full of infinite possibilities when you are dealing with alternative facts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The world is full of infinite possibilities when you are dealing with alternative facts.


True, and thus, one is able to select the perfect scenario. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The world is full of infinite possibilities when you are dealing with alternative facts.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The world is full of infinite possibilities when you are dealing with alternative facts.


Popular vote in the 2016 election. 62,980,160 to 65,845,063 . Now, who received which amount???????????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Popular vote in the 2016 election. 62,980,160 to 65,845,063 . Now, who received which amount???????????????



Good point. Of course, if you take away all the dead people and illegal aliens who voted, not to mention the space aliens....


----------



## Macfury

Dan Rather is writhing alongside other members of the Mainstream Media in their collective death throe. An incredible spectacle. Does Rather forget that he lost his own job by presenting fake documents regarding George W. Bush?


----------



## Dr.G.

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” 
― George Orwell, 1984 

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” 
― George Orwell, 1984 

“War is peace. 
Freedom is slavery. 
Ignorance is strength.” 
― George Orwell, 1984 

“The best books... are those that tell you what you know already.” 
― George Orwell, 1984 

“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.” 
― George Orwell, 1984 

“Big Brother is Watching You.” 
― George Orwell, 1984


----------



## Dr.G.

Are we starting to live in a "post-factual" and "post-truth" world??????????????


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Does anyone else remember "What is the frequency, Kenneth?"
> 
> 
> :lmao:


That's the song. The phrase is inverted: "Kenneth, what is the frequency?"


----------



## Dr.G.

The White House seating chart: Who's who - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting. It used to be that whomever was standing closest to Stalin was his closest confidant ............. until the person suddenly disappeared or was up on trial.

My bets are on Jared Kushner. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's the song. The phrase is inverted: "Kenneth, what is the frequency?"


What's the Frequency, Kenneth? - Radio Version
R.E.M.

"What's the frequency, Kenneth?" is your Benzedrine, uh-huh
I was brain-dead, locked out, numb, not up to speed
I thought I'd pegged you an idiot's dream
Tunnel vision from the outsider's screen
I never understood the frequency, uh-huh
You wore our expectations like an armored suit, uh-huh"

Full disclosure -- I have to admit, I was not a REM fan.


----------



## Dr.G.

Obama Writes Farewell Thank You Letter To America

A nice parting letter to all Americans. He shall be missed.

“When the arc of progress seems slow, remember: America is not the project of any one person,” Obama added in the letter. “The single most powerful word in our democracy is the word ‘We.’ ‘We the People.’ ‘We shall overcome.'”

He concluded the note with his 2008 campaign slogan: “Yes, we can.”


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> “When the arc of progress seems slow, remember: America is not the project of any one person,” Obama added in the letter. “The single most powerful word in our democracy is the word ‘We.’ ‘We the People.’ ‘We shall overcome.'”


The "Arc of Progress" just hit him in the ass!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The "Arc of Progress" just hit him in the ass!


Now, play nice. He is no longer president. You have four years of being positive with Pres. Trump. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Are we starting to live in a "post-factual" and "post-truth" world??????????????




Not post-factual. Alternative facts. Choose the reality that pleases you, just like our alt-right conspiracy theory friends here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

We should let the guy who insisted that Trump could not read or that we had to get used to saying "Madame President" school us on alternative realities?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not post-factual. Alternative facts. Choose the reality that pleases you, just like our alt-right conspiracy theory friends here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Imagine if Pres. Trump brings Bernie Sanders into his inner circle??????? A wild dream, but that would blow the top off of Washington, DC.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Imagine if Pres. Trump brings Bernie Sanders into his inner circle??????? A wild dream, but that would blow the top off of Washington, DC.


Trump builds businesses and Sanders sucks them dry--a marriage made in heaven.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump builds businesses and Sanders sucks them dry--a marriage made in heaven.


Well, just think of the New Deal-like social programs that could be started??? And we all know how Pres. Trump likes the "art of a deal". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

FDR had the "New Deal", and LBJ had the "Great Society". I don't recall any president since LBJ having a name for their administration. Can anyone help me out here with any actual citations? Merci.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Does Rather forget that he lost his own job by presenting fake documents regarding George W. Bush?


I never clicked on Sparky's link, but the first thing I thought was, Dan Rather is critical of someone else? :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump just promised to create 25 million new jobs, which is nearly 3 million more than Pres. Clinton was able to do and more than twice what Pres. Obama was able to do. Good for him. I wish him well since that will help Americans, especially the middle class, and even Canada due to more trade. 

It would be interesting if a Republican controlled Congress stands in his way to spend the money needed for infrastructure jobs.

We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

VP Pence always seems to be standing behind Pres. Trump at each of his public appearances. Interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Trump just promised to create 25 million new jobs, which is nearly 3 million more than Pres. Clinton was able to do and more than twice what Pres. Obama was able to do. Good for him. I wish him well since that will help Americans, especially the middle class, and even Canada due to more trade.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be interesting if a Republican controlled Congress stands in his way to spend the money needed for infrastructure jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> We shall see.



What if those jobs include exterminating people who don't respect him? Starting with Muslims, of course, and gays and uppity women? Followed shortly by Mexicans and Canadians, unless we submit to his quest to expand the American empire? I'm sure our little Nazi friend back in the day also created many jobs for many people. Remember Hitler Youth? I'm guessing that some variation of that is coming soon. Remember, he had Mein Kampf on his night table, according to first wife Ivana.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> What if those jobs include exterminating people who don't respect him? Starting with Muslims, of course, and gays and uppity women? Followed shortly by Mexicans and Canadians, unless we submit to his quest to expand the American empire? I'm sure our little Nazi friend back in the day also created many jobs for many people. Remember Hitler Youth? I'm guessing that some variation of that is coming soon. Remember, he had Mein Kampf on his night table, according to first wife Ivana.


Be serious, Frank and stay positive. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> VP Pence always seems to be standing behind Pres. Trump at each of his public appearances. Interesting.



Puppet master. That way you can't see his hand up Donald's arse.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Puppet master. That way you can't see his hand up Donald's arse.


I thought that was supposed to be Putin? I just find it interesting that he is always there next to Pres. Trump. Not saying much, just there.


----------



## FeXL

Really? So what if he did?

I've read translated passages from Mein Kampf. And bits & pieces from many books written by totalitarians & despots, from both the right & the left. Haven't you?

It's called learning.

You may wish to try it one day...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Remember, he had Mein Kampf on his night table, according to first wife Ivana.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Be serious, Frank and stay positive.


Yeah, c'mon, Freddie! Your handler's not impressed...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Be serious, Frank and stay positive. Paix, mon ami.



I am serious. There is just too much here that comes straight from the tyrant's handbook. Have you considered that "alternative facts" is perhaps a dogwhistle for our alt-right friends? They seem to have embraced the term "alternative" as something to be proud of. Can't trust that MSM news—Main Stream Media—doncha know. I wish it were just an alarmist prog conspiracy theory, but now he's already cocksure he'll be there for the next eight years. Emphasis on the first syllable. We abandon vigilance at our own peril.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I am serious. There is just too much here that comes straight from the tyrant's handbook. Have you considered that "alternative facts" is perhaps a dogwhistle for our alt-right friends? They seem to have embraced the term "alternative" as something to be proud of. Can't trust that MSM news—Main Stream Media—doncha know. I wish it were just an alarmist prog conspiracy theory, but now he's already cocksure he'll be there for the next eight years. Emphasis on the first syllable. We abandon vigilance at our own peril.


Yes, I see your point. Still, I have faith in the American system of checks and balances and in the majority of the American people. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Too late.

Rachel & The Hairdo are already in...



Freddie_Biff said:


> We abandon vigilance at our own peril.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that was supposed to be Putin? I just find it interesting that he is always there next to Pres. Trump. Not saying much, just there.



Exactly. I heard a theory on a radio talk show today that suggested Trump IS actually the moderate face for a much darker element within the Republican party. Think about who some of his top advisers are, starting with Steve Bannon. It's damn fascinating actually, watching this all unfold in real time, if the potential consequences weren't so scary. Witness the rise of the new American Empire. Make America Great Again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Too late.
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel & The Hairdo are already in...



Careful there, Sparky. Don't want to choke on some food for thought.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. I heard a theory on a radio talk show today that suggested Trump IS actually the moderate face for a much darker element within the Republican party. Think about who some of his top advisers are, starting with Steve Bannon. It's damn fascinating actually, watching this all unfold in real time, if the potential consequences weren't so scary. Witness the rise of the new American Empire. Make America Great Again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, we shall all have to be vigilant. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump calls protests 'a hallmark of our democracy' in toned-down response to marches - World - CBC News

A good article from a Canadian perspective.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I am serious. There is just too much here that comes straight from the tyrant's handbook. Have you considered that "alternative facts" is perhaps a dogwhistle for our alt-right friends? They seem to have embraced the term "alternative" as something to be proud of. Can't trust that MSM news—Main Stream Media—doncha know. I wish it were just an alarmist prog conspiracy theory, but now he's already cocksure he'll be there for the next eight years. Emphasis on the first syllable. We abandon vigilance at our own peril.


Well the lame stream media had to abandon the CIA coined "Conspiracy Theory" because just attaching that label clued viewers into the fact that the so-called conspiracy theory was probably closer to the truth than the official propaganda being spewed by the MSM. Unfortunately for CNN, Faux and the rest they chose "Fake News", and absolutely everyone believed the Lamestream was referring to its own propaganda stream. 

I don't see "Alternate Facts" faring much better. A far wiser choice would be for the Lamestream to deep six its handlers and stick to the facts, though I rate the probability of that as being awfully close to zero.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump calls protests 'a hallmark of our democracy' in toned-down response to marches - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> A good article from a Canadian perspective.



Sure, after his handlers put a gun to his head. Or Mike Pence's hand squeezed a little. Definitely a different tone than his initial reaction, which makes me think he didn't actually write it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Well the lame stream media had to abandon the CIA coined "Conspiracy Theory" because just attaching that label clued viewers into the fact that the so-called conspiracy theory was probably closer to the truth than the official propaganda being spewed by the MSM. Unfortunately for CNN, Faux and the rest they chose "Fake News", and absolutely everyone believed the Lamestream was referring to its own propaganda stream.
> 
> I don't see "Alternate Facts" faring much better. A far wiser choice would be for the Lamestream to deep six its handlers and stick to the facts, though I rate the probability of that as being awfully close to zero.



Sure, eMacMan, but the facts according to whom? What's at play here is to make people doubt ALL news that they get from the media, and trust the POTUS Twitter feed instead.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure, after his handlers put a gun to his head. Or Mike Pence's hand squeezed a little. Definitely a different tone than his initial reaction, which makes me think he didn't actually write it.


I wrote it, mon ami. I am trying to stay positive so as to overcome my fears. "When they go low, we go high." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. I heard a theory on a radio talk show today that suggested Trump IS actually the moderate face for a much darker element within the Republican party...


A theory you say? And not just on any talk show but a _radio_ talk show? That's chilling stuff!

(I love the way that eternal vigilance was supposed to be on hold for the past eight years of ruination under Obama. Notley? Let's see how much MORE damage she does before we judge her. After all, she's 50.)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A theory you say? And not just on any talk show but a _radio_ talk show? That's chilling stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> (I love the way that eternal vigilance was supposed to be on hold for the past eight years of ruination under Obama. Notley? Let's see how much MORE damage she does before we judge her. After all, she's 50.)



Wrong thread much? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Grew up with Golden Books, but can't imagine this one.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure, eMacMan, but the facts according to whom? What's at play here is to make people doubt ALL news that they get from the media, and trust the POTUS Twitter feed instead.


You should have been chilled to the bone when Obama signed H.R.5181 putting the federal government in charge of determining which news is true:

"...the U.S. government should develop a comprehensive strategy to counter foreign disinformation and propaganda _and assert leadership in developing a fact-based strategic narrative_..."

Where was your eternal vigilance then?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Wrong thread much?


Nope. It shows your consistent insistence on vigilance _only_ when you don't support the candidate.


----------



## FeXL

Remember all those peaceful protests 8 years ago by the political right objecting to Barry';s inauguration that suddenly devolved into shootings? Yeah, me neither.

Suspect in custody in Trump protest shooting outside Milo Yiannopoulos event, Seattle police say



> Police said a suspect was in custody early Saturday after a man was shot and critically wounded in Seattle as protests against the inauguration of President Trump turned violent.
> 
> Seattle Police said they removed a 32-year-old man with a gunshot wound to the abdomen at a University of Washington demonstration Friday night against a far-right commentator who was making an appearance on campus.


----------



## FeXL

Well, it's a good start...

Majority of 230 protesters arrested on Inauguration Day will face 10 years in prison and $25k fine as US attorney says they will be charged with felony rioting



> Most of the 230 rioters arrested after violent protests erupted in Washington D.C. following Donald Trump's inauguration will be charged with felony rioting, federal prosecutors said on Saturday.
> 
> The charge carries a punishment of up to ten years in jail and a $25,000 fine.
> 
> Thousand of protesters launched a violent rampage just blocks away from the White House as anti-Trump demonstrators smashed store windows, set fire to cars and threw bricks at police.


But really, all they were doing was exercising their right to free speech. Right?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> You should have been chilled to the bone when Obama signed H.R.5181 putting the federal government in charge of determining which news is true:
> 
> "...the U.S. government should develop a comprehensive strategy to counter foreign disinformation and propaganda _and assert leadership in developing a fact-based strategic narrative_..."
> 
> Where was your eternal vigilance then?


You forget Macfury that school teachers who get a 40% answer on a 5% question are somewhat challenged in analyzing media. We who have worked in media can forgive them for that.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> .



That's almost funny! I'm flattered.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff

To be fair, point of view can make a big difference. Crowd shot from Trump's perspective.


----------



## Macfury

https://www.yahoo.com/news/azealia-banks-criticizes-womens-march-001151676.html



> Azealia Banks is sounding off on social media again. And this time, she’s taken aim at Saturday’s Women’s March.
> 
> ....
> 
> The controversial rapper went to Instagram on Sunday criticizing the recent demonstrations and the mission of mainstream feminism. Banks asked, *“Why do women fall for these white feminist tricks all the time? Now that some white dude has taken office who simply said something silly about grabbing a p***y, they want to march in the streets under the guise of ‘standing up for human freedoms.’”*
> 
> The 25-year-old then claimed these marchers did not express the same concern when police officers were gunning down black people last year. She went on to say that white feminists demand the world’s support, but does not give that same support back.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

"Some white dude" who "simply said something silly"? Uh, yeah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I didn't realize that they had already called it Obamacare in 2008. Give me a break--these are isolated images over 8 years, not protests over his election.


----------



## Macfury

Yeah. He's not a Bill Clinton who sexually assaults women.



Freddie_Biff said:


> "Some white dude" who "simply said something silly"? Uh, yeah.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yeah. He's not a Bill Clinton who sexually assaults women.



Nope, you're right. He's just a peeping Tom who likes to pop in unexpectedly into the dressing room of Miss Teen Universe contestants.


----------



## SINC

They're coming down hard on those DC rioters.

Anti-Trump protesters will face up to 10 years in prison | Daily Mail Online


----------



## FeXL

I'm thinking an $8 billion a year shortfall and loss of their headquarters just might apply a bit of pressure. They may even have to stop focussing on TIPCC© & Globull Warming...

US exit from United Nations could become reality with fresh bill



> A Republican-proposed House Resolution has quietly slipped past the public radar – proposing that the United States withdraw its membership from the United Nations, just as another bill was being concocted to cut US funding to the body.
> 
> The bill, proposed by Rep. Mike Rogers (R-AL), entitled American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2017, seeks a complete US withdrawal from the UN, that the international body remove its headquarters from New York and that all participation be ceased with the World Health Organization as well.
> 
> Rogers and other prominent Republicans have repeatedly voiced the idea that US taxpayer money should not go to an organization that does not promote US interests – especially one that does not stick up for Israel together with the US. The new document is merely the latest manifestation of sentiment that has been brewing for some time.


----------



## Macfury

Interesting commentary from Brian Eno, not because he is an authority, but because his personal experience is fascinating. Talking about Trump and Brexit:


> My feeling about Brexit was not anger at anybody else, it was anger at myself for not realising what was going on. I thought that all those Ukip people and those National Fronty people were in a little bubble. Then I thought: *‘F***, it was us, we were in the bubble, we didn’t notice it.’ *There was a revolution brewing and we didn’t spot it because we didn’t make it. We expected we were going to be the revolution.”


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...not-interested-in-talking-about-me-reflection


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:clap::clap::clap: Both Pres. and Mrs. Obama showed a great deal of class there.


----------



## CubaMark

Gawd. I just sat through 8 minutes of Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer's blathering on with his 'alternative facts'.

I predict a higher rate of alcoholism (at minimum) and/or suicide (most likely) among the White House Press Corps through the ensuing four years.

_Ho-ly cow._

*The Key Moments From White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's Meltdown Today* (Jezebel)


----------



## Rps

FeXL, I have long supported Canada backing out of the UN. It is a useless waste of money on a bunch of bureaucratic navel-gazers. You want peace in the world, dump the UN in its current useless form and go to a one country one vote no security council organization that if you are in you are in. Pony up and go in and fix the problems...as the World, not U.S., Britain, France or even Canada led.


----------



## Macfury

One country one vote? I don't want to see a democracy in which 99 countries tell the 100th what to do. It's OK on an _ad hoc_ basis.



Rps said:


> FeXL, I have long supported Canada backing out of the UN. It is a useless waste of money on a bunch of bureaucratic navel-gazers. You want peace in the world, dump the UN in its current useless form and go to a one country one vote no security council organization that if you are in you are in. Pony up and go in and fix the problems...as the World, not U.S., Britain, France or even Canada led.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Macfury

I think Trump will win the war of politics, while progs will endlessly fire blanks, cajoling each other with memes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think Trump will win the war of politics, while progs will endlessly fire blanks, cajoling each other with memes.



Trump will be impeached before the end of the year, let alone the end of his four year term.


----------



## Macfury

I wouldn't have imagined it, given reports by the fawning press:

47.9%: Obama Had Lower Average Approval Rating Than Nixon or Bush


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I wouldn't have imagined it, given reports by the fawning press:
> 
> 
> 
> 47.9%: Obama Had Lower Average Approval Rating Than Nixon or Bush



Good thing for you there's no shortage of alternative facts from fake news sources.


----------



## Macfury

Hey Freddie, I hear Trump is already acting on his election promises to dismantle "progressivism"--but pay no attention. 

Just fake news.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump will be impeached before the end of the year, let alone the end of his four year term.


.


> Get used to saying it: "Madame President...."


----------



## SINC

Ah yes, famous last words 101.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Hey Freddie, I hear Trump is already acting on his election promises to dismantle "progressivism"--but pay no attention.
> 
> Just fake news.


Don't know about that but he does seem to have pulled the plug on the TPP. A campaign promise that is well worth keeping. 

Hopefully this lets Canada off the hook as well. Still can't understand why the Harpoon and the Hairdoo were so anxious to make Canadian sovereignty subservient to the multinational corpocracy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey Freddie, I hear Trump is already acting on his election promises to dismantle "progressivism"--but pay no attention.
> 
> 
> 
> Just fake news.



From a fake President.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Best one yet! From the Netherlands. 
http://mashable.com/2017/01/24/neth...o/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link#GZpz4mtTKiqm


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> From a fake President.


Then that "Fake President" is kicking ass!


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Don't know about that but he does seem to have pulled the plug on the TPP. A campaign promise that is well worth keeping.
> 
> Hopefully this lets Canada off the hook as well. Still can't understand why the Harpoon and the Hairdoo were so anxious to make Canadian sovereignty subservient to the multinational corpocracy.


Just a minor point, the U.S. Wasn't in the TPP as it was never approved by the Houses....just sayin'


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Best one yet! From the Netherlands.
> This Dutch video on Trump has gone viral because, well, just watch it


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Just a minor point, the U.S. Wasn't in the TPP as it was never approved by the Houses....just sayin'


Some Republicans in Congress and Democrats still wanted to vote in favour of it. By refusing any further negotiations on TPP. Trump killed it.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Some Republicans in Congress and Democrats still wanted to vote in favour of it. By refusing any further negotiations on TPP. Trump killed it.


Agreed, but I think it was a non starter no matter who won....HC backed away from that as her campaign went on. Personally, I think this would be good for Canada to sign....but that is for another thread!


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* _Trump once said women should be punished for abortion. Now, he's making it happen_ (The Guardian UK)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Then that "Fake President" is kicking ass!



Hardly. He still has tantrums like a child when they make fun of him on SNL. Seems pretty insecure to me.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> Best one yet! From the Netherlands.
> This Dutch video on Trump has gone viral because, well, just watch it


add them to the fallen. lol 
they may have fought with spain for 80 years - but it only took 1 year of islam [ my apologizes innocent refugees who believe in rape and murder, pillaging ] to take down France, sweden and the rest of them lol


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Agreed, but I think it was a non starter no matter who won....HC backed away from that as her campaign went on. Personally, I think this would be good for Canada to sign....but that is for another thread!


The leaked Podesta e-mails and those extracted from Clinton's server indicated she was actually pro TPP. I think the Republican House would have passed it if it had come up for vote.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The leaked Podesta e-mails and those extracted from Clinton's server indicated she was actually pro TPP. I think the Republican House would have passed it if it had come up for vote.


Well, we will never know!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well, we will never know!


No... because Trump killed it!


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> *Related:* _Trump once said women should be punished for abortion. Now, he's making it happen_ (The Guardian UK)


"What men do with their reproductive organs" doesn't kill innocent human beings. Trump is absolutely on the right side of history on this one. I hope he pushes that agenda much further.


----------



## Macfury

I see that the North America's Building Trades Union was suitably impressed by Trump's decisive action on Keystone:



> "Today, President Donald J. Trump gave continued hope to thousands of skilled craft construction professionals in America's heartland for whom the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects have been an economic lifeline.
> 
> We are grateful that President Trump understands that 32 per cent of today's construction industry workforce is employed on energy projects, amounting to over two million workers, and that projects such as the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines are significant job creators that generate above-average wages and benefits for hard-working Americans.
> 
> NABTU is encouraged that one of President Trump's first official actions will put tens of thousands of Americans to work and unleash billions and billions of dollars of earned wages into our economy, contributing to a significant boost in our nation's GDP. It should be noted these jobs will be created without a single dollar of government assistance for project finance, and because they are being constructed under the guidance of a collective bargaining agreement, they also have structures in place for apprenticeship training opportunities for historically neglected communities.
> 
> *In politics, there are people of words, and people of deeds. North America's Building Trades Unions are grateful that President Trump is a man who puts action behind his words.*


----------



## CubaMark

heavyall said:


> "What men do with their reproductive organs" doesn't kill innocent human beings. Trump is absolutely on the right side of history on this one. I hope he pushes that agenda much further.


If only the right-to-life crowd cared as much about the quality of that life after it leaves the womb..... :yikes: :-( 

*Female Legislators Unveil ‘Male Ejaculation Bill’ Forbidding The Disposal Of Unused Semen*









_WASHINGTON, DC (By J. McConkey)—A group of leading female legislators have enacted a new bill that forbids American men from disposing of “unused” sperm, requiring them to bring any recreational semen to a nearby fertility clinic.

According to noted alternative facts specialist, Stephanie Yorke, sperm is intended for “procreation only” and not to be “wasted” on pleasure:
“Any sperm not being used for the purpose of procreation must be immediately donated to a sperm bank,” Yorke warned. “Failure to do so will lead to hefty fines and ultimately, incarceration, under the new ‘Level Playing Field Bill’.”_​(Burrard Street Journal)​

*UPDATE: * The Netherlands "counters" Trump with international abortion fund


_The Dutch Government is planning to launch an international fund to finance access to birth control and abortion in developing countries, in order to fill the gap left after the Trump administration announced it would no longer fund any overseas aid organisations which discussed abortion.

“Banning abortions does not result in fewer abortions,” Dutch Trade and Development Minister Lilianne Ploumen said, according to Dutch news website NOS.

“It leads to more irresponsible practices in back rooms and more maternal deaths.”

On social media, Minister Ploumen said the fund’s intention was to counter the impact of the funding ban on women and girls.​_
(SBS)


----------



## Macfury

Well, CM--if you kill it, it will have no life at all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And more from the tinfoil hat and alternative fact/fake news department....


















https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...llegal-immigrants-voted.html?campaign_id=A100


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> If only the right-to-life crowd cared as much about the quality of that life after it leaves the womb.....


It's a good thing that they absolutely do then. Besides that, there is no quality of life if you're dead. 

It's a basic human rights issue. It's sheer hypocrisy for women who support abortion to frame it in terms of their rights. If you don't have the right to be alive, then no other right actually exists. Some day we will look back in horror that we ever allowed women to kill their own children. It's a black mark on the human race.


----------



## Macfury

The argument here appears to be that unless the "right-to-life crowd cared as much about the quality of that life after it leaves the womb" then it is incumbent upon the rest of society to kill them in the womb.



heavyall said:


> It's a good thing that they absolutely do then. Besides that, there is no quality of life if you're dead.


----------



## SINC

My favourite crowd shot at the Trump inauguration.


----------



## Macfury

Trump has wanted to investigate voter fraud for some time. He made his claims on the popular vote in order to raise media hackles, so they would demand he prove it. Trump has now announced an investigation prompted by media, to do exactly what he wanted to do in the first place.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> My favourite crowd shot at the Trump inauguration.



Pretty funny, meme guy! And a bit of an easy target.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump Staffers Are Reportedly Using Private Email Accounts*

Remember how Donald Trump hammered on Hillary Clinton for using a private email server during her tenure as Secretary of State? During the election, Trump went as far as wanting to put “Crooked Hillary” behind bars, because having staffers use emails not monitored by the government could be a bad thing. But according to a new report from Newsweek, key Trump staffers are using accounts running on the Republican National Committee’s private email server.

The staffers named in the report include Jared Kushner, Kellyanne Conway, Sean Spicer, and Steve Bannon. Newsweek says:



> The rnchq.org email address used by the Bush administration is now hosting active Trump staff email addresses, verifiable through the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP). SMTP is the bridge between mail servers. The rnchq.org account is hosted by the same commercial server as it was during the Bush years—smartechcorp.net, based in Chattanooga, Tennessee.


Trump wouldn’t be the first president to have staffers using RNC emails (which carry the domain RNCHQ.org) while also working in the White House. You may recall that under George W. Bush’s presidency, staffers including Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and Scooter Libby, used their RNC accounts to conduct business. During inquests into Rove and Libby’s behavior, some 22 million emails were erased from those servers.

Using a separate email address isn’t illegal, and as Newsweek points out, it could make sense. Not all communications happening between staffers are going to concern official White House correspondence. Still, any Trump staffer using RNC emails are still beholden to the Disclosure Requirement For Official Business Conducted Using Electronic Messaging Accounts law that went into effect in 2014. According to that law, anyone who uses the RNC email for White House work has to forward or copy those communications to the government email system within 20 days.

Incidentally, the main reason that law exists is because of claims that the Bush administration was using the RNC email accounts to avoid the Presidential Records Act of 1978, which requires an archive of all presidential communications.​
(Gizmodo)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Remember how Donald Trump hammered on Hillary Clinton for using a private email server during her tenure as Secretary of State? During the election, Trump went as far as wanting to put “Crooked Hillary” behind bars, because having staffers use emails not monitored by the government could be a bad thing. )


Nope. It was a bad thing because the e-mail severs used by Clinton were not secure and were used to send and receive classified information.


----------



## CubaMark

*Albright: I'm 'ready to register as Muslim'*









(The Hill)


----------



## Macfury

Go for it Madeline! (Yawnnnnn.......)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Albright: I'm 'ready to register as Muslim'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The Hill)



I'm Spartacus! No, I'm Spartacus!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nope. It was a bad thing because the e-mail severs used by Clinton were not secure and were used to send and receive classified information.



Trump's actions don't appear to be monitored by anyone. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Get your commemorative plate now! While supplies last!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

*US State Department's entire senior management team quits as Secretary Rex Tillerson takes up post*

The entire senior level of management officials at the US State Department has resigned – rather than serve under President Donald Trump. 

In the latest display of disquiet among civil servants in Washington over the arrival of the new commander-in-chief, the four top senior officials at the equivalent of America's foreign ministry, announced they were standing down.

Mr Trump's selection for secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, was present in the department’s offices in the Foggy Bottom neighbourhood of Washington DC, when the officials quit on Wednesday, The Washington Post reported.​
(Independent UK)


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *US State Department's entire senior management team quits as Secretary Rex Tillerson takes up post*
> 
> The entire senior level of management officials at the US State Department has resigned – rather than serve under President Donald Trump.
> 
> In the latest display of disquiet among civil servants in Washington over the arrival of the new commander-in-chief, the four top senior officials at the equivalent of America's foreign ministry, announced they were standing down.
> 
> Mr Trump's selection for secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, was present in the department’s offices in the Foggy Bottom neighbourhood of Washington DC, when the officials quit on Wednesday, The Washington Post reported.​
> (Independent UK)


"The Associated Press said that while none of the officials has linked his or her departure explicitly to Mr Trump's arrival in the White House, many diplomats have privately expressed concern about serving in his administration, given the unorthodox positions he has taken on many foreign-policy issues."

Taken from the above linked article. If you are going to as far as quit your job over this why not flat out say you are leaving because of Trump or his policies?


----------



## SINC

I sometimes wonder about career civil servants who hang on to their jobs with every new administration, including here in Canada. They have the same old tired viewpoints and way of doing things that become stagnant with time. Perhaps one should look on the bright side and think of the changes this will bring as a good thing.


----------



## Dr.G.

Is Trump saying 'big league' or 'bigly'? - CNN Video

I always heard "big league" not "bigly". Guess it helps being born and raised in NYC to understand someone born and raised in NYC.

For the record, we are both from the Borough of Queens, just from different sections of this area of NYC.


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Is Trump saying 'big league' or 'bigly'? - CNN Video
> 
> I always heard "big league" not "bigly". .


I've never even been to New York, and it was obvious to me that he's been saying big league.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> I've never even been to New York, and it was obvious to me that he's been saying big league.


:clap::clap::clap: We shall make you an honorary New Yorker. Paix, mon ami. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waeXBCUkuL8[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Taken from the above linked article. If you are going to as far as quit your job over this why not flat out say you are leaving because of Trump or his policies?


Further to this:

The State Department’s entire senior administrative team just resigned



> One senior State Department official who responded to my requests for comment said that all the officials had previously submitted their letters of resignation, as was required for all positions that are appointed by the president and that require confirmation by the Senate, known as PAS positions.
> 
> “No officer accepts a PAS position with the expectation that it is unlimited. And all officers understand that the President may choose to replace them at any time,” this official said.


Sounds like SOP to me. Hardly a political statement.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Actions->Consequences.

Texas Radio Station Bans Madonna Following Women's March Remarks, Urges Other Stations to Follow Suit



> HITS 105 in Texarkana, Texas, has banned Madonna from its airwaves in response to the pop icon's comments at the Women's March on Washington on Saturday.
> 
> Standing before a crowd of an estimated 500,000 in Washington D.C., Madonna said that she had at times been angry after the election and had thought "an awful lot about blowing up the White House." She also repeatedly used the f-bomb on live TV during the speech.
> 
> In a statement issued Tuesday (Jan. 24), the Texarkana classic hits station said Madonna's songs would be removed from the station's local programming "indefinitely."


That free speech thing works both ways.


----------



## Dr.G.

heavyall said:


> I've never even been to New York, and it was obvious to me that he's been saying big league.


:clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Steve Bannon and Brietbart News: the only source of alternative facts you'll ever need .










https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/media/stephen-bannon-trump-news-media.html


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Steve Bannon and Brietbart News: the only source of alternative facts you'll ever need .










https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/media/stephen-bannon-trump-news-media.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

A pretty (pun intended) good look at Trump's Wall, and why it makes zero sense. If negative sense was a thing, it would make a whole bunch of that.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtu5Uksz5sI[/ame]


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> A pretty (pun intended) good look at Trump's Wall, and why it makes zero sense. If negative sense was a thing, it would make a whole bunch of that.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtu5Uksz5sI


Duh that's over $10,000,000/mile. Labor is not an issue since the Donald's intent is to use Mexicans under deportation threat, promise amnesty then go back on his promise and stiff them on wages as well.

That's what he means by having Mexico pay for it. 

Seriously a more realistic price would be about $10 Billion$, the big bucks will come into play defending the wall.


----------



## Macfury

Obama spent a trillion dollars on a stimulus that built nothing and created only jobs for public unions, and the mainstream media cheered. Go for the wall!


----------



## eMacMan

Recall seeing an estimated cost of deporting Mexicans as being around $400 Billion$.

Closest number I could find that I would trust is about 5.5 Million illegal Mexican Aliens. There are about the same number of illegal aliens from all other nations combined. 
Note: The US defines any one of non-US birth to be an alien not an immigrant.

Since the wall is aimed only at Mexicans, that works out to almost $100,000/sombrero to deport this group. Way too many of these are working for less than minimum wage, so even a portion of that number would be a great economic incentive. Seems to me it would be cheaper and much faster just pay anyone who volunteers to leave $20,000. Of course the wall has to be in place first. 

Remember the US could have bailed out the mortgages of one home owners for a much lower cost than than the Bankster bailout, so don't look for this to happen.


----------



## Macfury

Check out some of the other videos by "AJ Media"--crap about embracing socialism. I'm betting their opposition to the wall has more to do with promoting globalism than cost.



CubaMark said:


> A pretty (pun intended) good look at Trump's Wall, and why it makes zero sense. If negative sense was a thing, it would make a whole bunch of that.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtu5Uksz5sI


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Since the wall is aimed only at Mexicans, that works out to almost $100,000/sombrero to deport this group.


Well... no. Actually, all undocumented migrants from Latin America who come via land have to cross Mexico to then cross the border with the USA.

Having been here for over a decade, working in an institution that deals specifically with migration research, and having friends/family who work in Mexico's Migration enforcement body (Federal), I have a new appreciation for the enormous financial burden on Mexico's shoulders for undocumented interdiction. From the border with Guatemala all the way up to the US border, each Mexican state has a body of migration officers who identify and take into custody migrants heading north, and return them to their country of origin - that includes sending agents to escort those migrants (a huge number of them children, with or without adult accompaniment) home... in most cases by air. The $$$ involved is staggering... and Mexico gets zero credit from the USA for their effort to secure the borders. Trump has claimed Mexico is "sending" (it's worst, the rapists, some of them are good people, but y'know...) migrants, which is incorrect.


----------



## Macfury

Does Mexico not want to keep these human resources in Mexico? Why send them back?



CubaMark said:


> Well... no. Actually, all undocumented migrants from Latin America who come via land have to cross Mexico to then cross the border with the USA.
> 
> Having been here for over a decade, working in an institution that deals specifically with migration research, and having friends/family who work in Mexico's Migration enforcement body (Federal), I have a new appreciation for the enormous financial burden on Mexico's shoulders for undocumented interdiction. From the border with Guatemala all the way up to the US border, each Mexican state has a body of migration officers who identify and take into custody migrants heading north, and return them to their country of origin - that includes sending agents to escort those migrants (a huge number of them children, with or without adult accompaniment) home... in most cases by air. The $$$ involved is staggering... and Mexico gets zero credit from the USA for their effort to secure the borders. Trump has claimed Mexico is "sending" (it's worst, the rapists, some of them are good people, but y'know...) migrants, which is incorrect.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.vanityfair.mx/vanity-new...portada-vanity-fair-mexico-febrero-2017/21826

Oops. Well, they are calling her the "new Jackie Kennedy".


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> A pretty (pun intended) good look at Trump's Wall, and why it makes zero sense. If negative sense was a thing, it would make a whole bunch of that.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtu5Uksz5sI


It might not be her intent, but she actually makes a very good case for why a lot more needs to be done with respect to securing that border.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> It might not be her intent, but she actually makes a very good case for why a lot more needs to be done with respect to securing that border.


Yes. Her main argument seems to be that Mexicans will harm themselves trying to breach that wall.

Without enforceable borders you aren't a country at all, but her secondary argument seems to be that it will cost too much for America to be a country, so why bother?


----------



## eMacMan

Not quite sure what Trump is hoping to accomplish or destroy but this is a very bad approach. Again little to no Lamestream coverage.

Commentary: After Gold King spill, EPA didn't communicate enough, now ordered to not communicate at all | Colorado Springs Gazette, News


> ......
> It's also the optics of the situation. Given the fact that the EPA was so heavily criticized for its poor communications strategies, it was an interesting decision by the Trump administration to largely block the agency from communicating at all - even temporarily.
> 
> I experienced it firsthand. Over the course of my Gold King Mine coverage, I developed close sources within the EPA, both in Denver and Washington, D.C. While on-the-record statements usually needed to be approved by Washington, D.C., EPA spokespeople felt comfortable speaking with me off the record to offer me context and background. It's a critical relationship for a reporter to have, as off-the-record conversations can offer important insights.
> 
> But when I reached out to these sources in the aftermath of Trump's gag order, they were reluctant to speak with me. Some said candidly that they were "not comfortable." It was a departure from just last week, when I had a lengthy conversation with EPA staff in Denver about what an administrative transition might look like for the agency's work in Colorado.
> Seemingly overnight, Trump's directive had a chilling effect on the agency's communications.
> Going forward, it'll be interesting to see how this evolves. Could the directive have set a tone that will be hard to turn back? Or, once the transition smooths out, will the agency be free to again communicate with the media and the public in a way that continues to build on lessons learned from the Gold King Mine spill?
> 
> I guess we'll find out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Let's muzzle those nasty scientists that speak of climate change. What could they possibly know?


----------



## Macfury

I pick neither side. The 97% figure has been disproven a longgg time ago. Just something for old progs to kick around.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Does Mexico not want to keep these human resources in Mexico? Why send them back?


Mexico has a surplus labour force, particularly for less-educated agricultural work. It also has a near-60% poverty rate and is already dealing with excess population, particularly in the rural areas and villages, due to the years-long rise in net-negative emigration to the USA (that's right: Mexicans have been returning home in greater numbers than they've been going northward, as the US economy tanked, work dried up, deportations rose, etc.).

The USA, on the other hand, has a domestic economy based on low-wage, long-hour exploitation of undocumented workers, mainly in agriculture but also in urban gardening, child care, other basic labour needs.

Trump's economic "remedy" is going to cause a lot of hardship, very quickly - first for immigrants he's kicking out, who - despite being exploited labour, make enough to survive and send home to their families living in poverty back in Latin America; and second for U.S. citizens who are going to find that all the jobs done by Mexicans / Latinos will have to be done by somebody.... and not at the wages the immigrants were paid.

If nothing else, it's going to be an interesting ride....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I pick neither side. The 97% figure has been disproven a longgg time ago. Just something for old progs to kick around.



You've never disproven it even once. You're the expert with the fish.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You've never disproven it even once. You're the expert with the fish.


I think this number has been debunked on numerous occasions and very effectively. OTOH Believers have never once effectively proven the claim.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You've never disproven it even once. You're the expert with the fish.


I've done so over and over, even on EhMac. Let me ask you this--what do you think of the sample size in the "study?"


----------



## Macfury

Illegals have not been net-emigrating. Only documented ones. That's understood.

Still, why should Americans not enforce their own laws, if Mexicans are dumping illegal aliens back over the border of their own country?



CubaMark said:


> Mexico has a surplus labour force, particularly for less-educated agricultural work. It also has a near-60% poverty rate and is already dealing with excess population, particularly in the rural areas and villages, due to the years-long rise in net-negative emigration to the USA (that's right: Mexicans have been returning home in greater numbers than they've been going northward, as the US economy tanked, work dried up, deportations rose, etc.).


----------



## FeXL

FFS, Freddie. If you can't keep up with both sides of the argument, don't even post on the topic.

Head over to the GHG Thread, search "97%", read, learn. It was a crock when it was first uttered by some rent seeking "climate scientist" and it remains a crock now.

Science is _not_ determined by a show of hands, any more than American presidents are determined by popular vote...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You've never disproven it even once.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FFS, Freddie. If you can't keep up with both sides of the argument, don't even post on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> Head over to the GHG Thread, search "97%", read, learn. It was a crock when it was first uttered by some rent seeking "climate scientist" and it remains a crock now.
> 
> 
> 
> Science is _not_ determined by a show of hands, any more than American presidents are determined by popular vote...



Saying the same BS over and over does not make it true. You haven't proven anything.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Saying the same BS over and over does not make it true. You haven't proven anything.


So back to the 97 per cent. Which study are you referencing and what did you think of the sample size?


----------



## CubaMark

Well-done, Trump! By throwing your little hissy fit and putting up walls in the sandbox, the former friends of the USA are now being courted by China, which is ready to step in and provide manufacturing jobs and other investments.

*China ofrece a México alianza ante Trump *

_Ante las amenazas del presidente electo de Estados Unidos, Donald Trump, de abandonar el Tratado de Asociación Transpacífico (TPP) y revisar el TLC, el embajador chino Qiu Xiaoqi dijo que México tiene a su país como un aliado estratégico para fortalecer el libre comercio.

**translation* * "Following threats from the President-Elect of the United States, Donald Trump, to abandon the Trans-Pacific Partnership and renegotiate NAFTA, the Chinese Ambassador Qiu Xiaoqi said that Mexico represents a strategic ally for China in the strengthening of free trade"_​
(Milenio)

In this instance, not that I'm complaining - I approve completely of Trumps pulling out of TPP (hoping that Canada will do the same) and that NAFTA will be renegotiated (preferably cancelled). 

What is noteworthy is the USA's continuing isolation from what it once declared as it's own "backyard", a process that arguably began under G.W. Bush, and which Obama gave a half-hearted attempt to reinvigorate, very late, with his visit to Cuba and the "opening of relations" and embassies, but which did not extend to a full lifting of the criminal embargo. The most involved the USA has been in LatAm has been in subversion efforts via the National Endowment for Democracy (NED)—a moniker coined in opposite-land.

Trump's efforts to build a wall —physical, virtual, ideological— around the USA will have long-term negative effects on the USA's economy and influence in the region, and allow competing powers —principally China— to move in and clean up.


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://youtu.be/NzbhbetwYFU?t=23[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Sure--China has lots of cheap junk to sell to Mexico! Hopefully China will be a good market for illicit Mexican drugs to maintain the trade balance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So back to the 97 per cent. Which study are you referencing and what did you think of the sample size?


----------



## Macfury

You referred to a study. Where is your supporting evidence that such a study was published?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You referred to a study. Where is your supporting evidence that such a study was published?



You referred to some previous explanation on another thread that I have not read. Perhaps you can summarize.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You referred to some previous explanation on another thread that I have not read. Perhaps you can summarize.


There are several studies that are similar to each other. To which one did your meme refer? You weren't using the meme as your source were you? If you can't identify the study, there isn't much to talk about.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Quite the brave new world we're now living in. When a President runs the country (and by extension, any country it interacts with) by issuing executive order after executive order, and none of these orders is even run by the House or the Senate, and these orders become laws as soon as they're signed....isn't that the definition of a dictatorship? 



> Trump’s Order Blocks Immigrants at Airports, Stoking Fear Around Globe
> 
> January 28, 2017
> WASHINGTON — President Trump’s executive order on immigration quickly reverberated through the United States and across the globe on Saturday, slamming the border shut for an Iranian scientist headed to a lab in Boston, an Iraqi who had worked as an interpreter for the United States Army, and a Syrian refugee family headed to a new life in Ohio, among countless others.
> 
> Around the nation, security officers at major international gateways had new rules to follow. Humanitarian organizations scrambled to cancel long-planned programs, delivering the bad news to families who were about to travel. Refugees who were airborne on flights when the order was signed were detained at airports.
> 
> Reports rapidly surfaced Saturday morning of students attending American universities who were blocked from getting back into the United States from visits abroad. One student said in a Twitter post that he would be unable to study at Yale. Another who attends the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was refused permission to board a plane. Stanford University was reportedly working to help a Sudanese student return to California.
> 
> Human rights groups reported that legal permanent residents of the United States who hold green cards were being stopped in foreign airports as they sought to return from funerals, vacations or study abroad — a clear indication that Mr. Trump’s directive is being applied broadly.
> 
> Mr. Trump’s order, enacted with the stroke of a pen on Friday afternoon, suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, barred Syrian refugees indefinitely, and blocked entry into the United States for 90 days for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.
> 
> The Department of Homeland Security said that the executive order barred green card holders from those countries from re-entering the United States.
> 
> At least one case quickly prompted a legal challenge as lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees held at Kennedy International Airport in New York filed a motion early Saturday seeking to have their clients released. They also filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and other immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.
> 
> Shortly after noon on Saturday, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, an interpreter who worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq, was released. After nearly 19 hours of detention, Mr. Darweesh began to cry as he spoke to reporters, putting his hands behind his back and miming handcuffs.
> 
> Document | Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus in Kennedy Airport Detention The petition was filed on behalf of Hameed Khalid Darweesh and Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, who were detained Friday night after President Trump’s executive order suspending the entry of refugees into the United States.
> 
> “What I do for this country? They put the cuffs on,” Mr. Darweesh said. “You know how many soldiers I touch by this hand?”
> 
> The other man the lawyers are representing, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, remained in custody as his legal advocates sought his release.
> 
> Inside the airport, one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project, asked a border agent, “Who is the person we need to talk to?”
> 
> “Call Mr. Trump,” said the agent, who declined to identify himself.
> 
> The White House said the restrictions would protect “the United States from foreign nationals entering from countries compromised by terrorism” and ensure “a more rigorous vetting process.” But critics condemned Mr. Trump over the immediate collateral damage imposed on people who, by all accounts, had no sinister intentions in trying to come to the United States.
> 
> Peaceful protests began forming Saturday afternoon at Kennedy Airport, where nine travelers had been detained at Terminal 7 upon arrival, and two more were detained at Terminal 4, an airport official said.
> 
> The official said they were being held in a federal area of the airport, adding that such situations were playing out around the nation.
> 
> An official message to all American diplomatic posts around the world provided instructions about how to treat people from the countries affected: “Effective immediately, halt interviewing and cease issuance and printing” of visas to the United States.
> 
> Confusion turned to panic at airports around the world, as travelers found themselves unable to board flights bound for the United States. In Dubai and Istanbul, airport and immigration officials turned passengers away at boarding gates and, in at least one case, ejected a family from a flight they had boarded.
> 
> Seyed Soheil Saeedi Saravi, a leading young scientist in Iran, had been scheduled to travel in the coming days to Boston, where he had been awarded a fellowship to study cardiovascular medicine at Harvard, according to Thomas Michel, the professor who was to supervise the research fellowship.
> 
> Document | Motion for Class Certification in Refugee Detentions Lawyers for two Iraqi men who were detained at Kennedy Airport filed a motion in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry to the United States.
> 
> But Professor Michel said the visas for the student and his wife had been indefinitely suspended.
> 
> “This outstanding young scientist has enormous potential to make contributions that will improve our understanding of heart disease, and he has already been thoroughly vetted,” Professor Michel wrote to The New York Times. “This country and this city have a long history of providing research training to the best young scientists in the world, many of whom have stayed in the U.S.A. and made tremendous contributions in biomedicine and other disciplines.”
> 
> A spokesman for the Association of Public and Land-grant Universities — the association of large public colleges — said that the group was aware of an Iranian undergraduate student who had been barred from boarding a flight.
> 
> A Syrian family of six who have been living in a Turkish refugee camp since fleeing their home in 2014 had been scheduled to arrive in Cleveland on Tuesday, according to a report in The Cleveland Plain Dealer. Instead, the family’s trip has been called off.
> 
> Danielle Drake, a community relations manager at US Together, a refugee resettlement agency, told the newspaper that Mr. Trump’s ban reminded her of when the United States turned away Jewish refugees during World War II. “All those times that people said, ‘Never again,’ well, we’re doing it again,” she said.
> 
> On Twitter, Daniel W. Drezner, a professor at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, posted an angry message for Mr. Trump after the executive order stopped the arrival of a Syrian family his synagogue had sponsored.
> 
> In an interview on Friday night on “The Rachel Maddow Show” on MSNBC, he expressed sorrow for the fate of the family and apologized for cursing in his Twitter message.
> 
> “I can’t quite describe the degree of anger that I felt as a reaction to this, which then caused me to curse at the president on social media,” he said, adding, “which is probably something I should not do as a general rule.”
> 
> It was unclear how many refugees and other immigrants were being held nationwide in relation to the executive order.
> 
> A Christian family of six from Syria said in an email to Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania, that they were being detained at Philadelphia International Airport on Saturday morning despite having legal paperwork, green cards and visas that had been approved.
> 
> 
> Interactive Feature | Got a confidential news tip?
> 
> In the case of the two Iraqis held at Kennedy Airport, the legal filings by his lawyers say that Mr. Darweesh was granted a special immigrant visa on Jan. 20, the same day Mr. Trump was sworn in as president. Mr. Darweesh worked with the Americans in Iraq in a variety of jobs — as an interpreter, an engineer and a contractor.
> 
> He worked as an interpreter for the Army’s 101st Airborne Division in Baghdad and Mosul starting shortly after the invasion of Iraq on April 1, 2003. The filing said he had been directly targeted twice for his work with the United States military.
> 
> A husband and father of three, he arrived at Kennedy Airport with his family. Mr. Darweesh’s wife and children made it through passport control and customs, but agents of Customs and Border Protection detained him.
> 
> Mr. Alshawi was supposed to be reunited with his wife, who has been living in Texas. She wiped away tears as she waited in her sister’s house early Saturday in a Houston suburb.
> 
> In Cairo on Saturday, five Iraqis and one Yemeni, all of whom had valid immigration visas, according to airport officials, were barred from boarding an EgyptAir flight headed to New York, The Associated Press reported.
> 
> It was not clear if any of the six passengers had already been granted refugee status.
> 
> In Istanbul, during a stopover on Saturday, passengers reported that security officers had entered a plane after everyone had boarded and ordered a young Iranian woman and her family to leave the aircraft.
> 
> Iranian green card holders who live in the United States were blindsided by the decree while on vacation in Iran, finding themselves in a legal limbo and unsure whether they would be able to return to America.
> 
> “How do I get back home now?” said Daria Zeynalia, a green card holder who was visiting family in Iran. He had rented a house and leased a car, and would be eligible for citizenship in November. “What about my job? If I can’t go back soon, I’ll lose everything.”
> 
> Shadi Heidarifar, a philosophy student recently admitted to New York University, said in a message on Twitter that she had spent three years applying to universities in the United States.
> 
> “I had to work to save money, gather documents. The application fees were so expensive that a whole family could live for a month” on them, Ms. Heidarifar wrote. When she was accepted recently, she was elated. “But now my entire future is destroyed in one second.”


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/...tion-order.html?referer=http://m.facebook.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Quite the brave new world we're now living in. When a President runs the country (and by extension, any country it interacts with) by issuing executive order after executive order, and none of these orders is even run by the House or the Senate, and these orders become laws as soon as they're signed....isn't that the definition of a dictatorship?
> 
> 
> 
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/...tion-order.html?referer=http://m.facebook.com


Sadly, not only did he sign this executive order, but he chose to do so on the Holocaust Remembrance Day. Lest we forget. Shalom.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Quite the brave new world we're now living in. When a President runs the country (and by extension, any country it interacts with) by issuing executive order after executive order, and none of these orders is even run by the House or the Senate, and these orders become laws as soon as they're signed....isn't that the definition of a dictatorship?


I don't recall you calling Obama a dictator for signing executive orders, or for ordering the State Department to halt Iraqi immigration in 2011:



> As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets.


Al Qaeda in Kentucky: US May Have Let 'Dozens' of Terrorists Into Country as Refugees - ABC News

Do a little research before pushing your outrage button huh?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, not only did he sign this executive order, but he chose to do so on the Holocaust Remembrance Day. Lest we forget. Shalom.


I don't see the relationship.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't see the relationship.



No, you probably wouldn't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't recall you calling Obama a dictator for signing executive orders, or for ordering the State Department to halt Iraqi immigration in 2011:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Qaeda in Kentucky: US May Have Let 'Dozens' of Terrorists Into Country as Refugees - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> Do a little research before pushing your outrage button huh?



May always implies may not. We're talking about carte blanche against all immigrants here. Close the borders. Just like our German friend from long ago.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/...tion-order.html?referer=http://m.facebook.com


Holy hell. I just read through this.

:yikes:


tptptptp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Holy hell. I just read through this.
> 
> 
> 
> :yikes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tptptptp



I know. It is happening, and is following a very fast trajectory too.


----------



## Macfury

Trump is ordering a temporary restriction of 90 days on seven countries associated with terrorism--just as Obama did for a single country--until stronger vetting procedures can be established. 

There is no US _carte blanche_ policy preventing immigration.

Where are you getting this stuff?




Freddie_Biff said:


> May always implies may not. We're talking about carte blanche against all immigrants here. Close the borders. Just like our German friend from long ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't see the relationship.


Sadly, it is all too obvious. Shockingly, even former VP Cheney saw the error of this executive order. Shalom, mon ami.

Trump draws ire from Jewish groups over holocaust statement, refugee policy - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

A 90-day review of vetting procedures is not the equivalent of a standard policy of turning away Jews during WWII. This is why I did not see the equivalency. If I thought it was the same, I would not support it.





Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, it is all too obvious. Shockingly, even former VP Cheney saw the error of this executive order. Shalom, mon ami.
> 
> Trump draws ire from Jewish groups over holocaust statement, refugee policy - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A 90-day review of vetting procedures is not the equivalent of a standard policy of turning away Jews during WWII. This is why I did not see the equivalency. If I thought it was the same, I would not support it.


Substitute the word "Jewish" for "nationals of Syria" and you might see the relevance of the concern by many. Even Pope Francis has expressed his concern over this ban, which is especially heartening given the Vatican's actions just before WWII as Jews were fleeing for their lives to any country that would take them.

I don't want to get into a back and forth and back and forth argument with you. I just wanted to express my concerns over the executive order and with the timing of this pronouncement. Shalom, mon ami.

Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’ – CatholicHerald.co.uk


(c) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest. 

(d) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of more than 50,000 refugees in fiscal year 2017 would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I determine that additional admissions would be in the national interest.


----------



## Macfury

If the Pope meant this, the Vatican City would be many times more populous than it is now. 

No country should be expected to accept unrestricted immigration. 

Also, I heard no outcry here when Obama specified a suspension of refugees from Iraq for six months.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> If the Pope meant this, the Vatican City would be many times more populous than it is now.
> 
> No country should be expected to accept unrestricted immigration.
> 
> Also, I heard no outcry here when Obama specified a suspension of refugees from Iraq for six months.


The ban is a bit larger than that, MF. Read the article. People with valid visas, not just refugees but green card holders, people who have been living in the USA and gone to visit relatives for the holidays, scientists and students returning to universities... 

This is madness.

XX)


----------



## Macfury

But...



> A senior administration official clarified on Saturday afternoon that green card holders from the seven countries affected in the order who are currently outside the U.S. will need a case-by-case waiver to return to the U.S.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> The ban is a bit larger than that, MF. Read the article. People with valid visas, not just refugees but green card holders, people who have been living in the USA and gone to visit relatives for the holidays, scientists and students returning to universities...
> 
> 
> 
> This is madness.
> 
> 
> 
> XX)



And oddly it is not exactly in sync with the "countries that are known for terrorism against the US" either.


----------



## Macfury

It's not a Muslim ban. It's country ban. 

And it is not retribution for people already killed. I suspect it is intended to prevent a situation similar to Germany's and that of other European countries.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's not a Muslim ban. It's country ban.
> 
> 
> 
> And it is not retribution for people already killed. I suspect it is intended to prevent a situation similar to Germany's and that of other European countries.



Nope. It's xenophobia in its raw form. You keep telling yourself what a great man he is. I say he's a coward and a narcissist who hides behind executive orders and Twitter because he gets destroyed in any real conversation or debate. He is quickly becoming a real dictator with emphasis on the first syllable. If you can't see this, you must be either willfully blind or painfully detached from reality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

You're also calling Obama a coward and narcissist when he passed the Iraqi refugee ban through executive action.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. It's xenophobia in its raw form. You keep telling yourself what a great man he is. I say he's a coward and a narcissist who hides behind executive orders and Twitter because he gets destroyed in any real conversation or debate. He is quickly becoming a real dictator with emphasis on the first syllable. If you can't see this, you must be either willfully blind or painfully detached from reality.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're also calling Obama a coward and narcissist when he passed the Iraqi refugee ban through executive action.



No I'm not, though it appears you are. Obama does not exemplify the traits of being either a coward or a narcissist, while Trumps displays them in technicolour. Witness the difference in maturity levels alone when each man confronts criticism.


----------



## Macfury

Face it Freddie--you want to give one president a free pass and attack the other for similar executive actions.


----------



## Dr.G.

A friend of mine in NYC who voted for the Libertarian Party in the last election, is shocked over the latest executive order. He just sent me this --

"The current United States Libertarian Party (LP) Platform states that Libertarians are prepared to welcome refugees, and the LP works against discriminatory policies. In addition it states that a free market requires the free movement of both capital and labor across borders."


----------



## Dr.G.

George W. Bush: Statement on the International Day of Commemoration in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...ident-international-holocaust-remembrance-day


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Face it Freddie--you want to give one president a free pass and attack the other for similar executive actions.



Nope. Consider how many of Trump's orders so far have been debated in Congress. Zero. In ONE WEEK he has turned the USA from a democracy to a dictatorship. There are KK checks and balances. Why not fire all those reps instead? He might as well; he's running the show like a dictator anyway.


----------



## Macfury

From the Libertarian Party platform web site:



> Of course, if someone has a record of violence, credible plans for violence, or acts violently, then Libertarians support blocking their entry, deporting, and/or prosecuting and imprisoning them, depending on the offense.


By what action could someone block entry except through border checks? The platform never suggested that people should enter the US without some form of background check. Vetting is intended to ensure that entrants have no record of violence or credible plans for violence. 



Dr.G. said:


> "The current United States Libertarian Party (LP) Platform states that Libertarians are prepared to welcome refugees, and the LP works against discriminatory policies. In addition it states that a free market requires the free movement of both capital and labor across borders."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> A friend of mine in NYC who voted for the Libertarian Party in the last election, is shocked over the latest executive order. He just sent me this --
> 
> 
> 
> "The current United States Libertarian Party (LP) Platform states that Libertarians are prepared to welcome refugees, and the LP works against discriminatory policies. In addition it states that a free market requires the free movement of both capital and labor across borders."



Apparently that's not the Libertarian Party that Macfury supports.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Come on over to Canada. We have Tim Horton's coffee. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

"I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."
~ John Diefenbaker (From the Canadian Bill of Rights, July 1, 1960.)


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> From the Libertarian Party platform web site:
> 
> 
> 
> By what action could someone block entry except through border checks? The platform never suggested that people should enter the US without some form of background check. Vetting is intended to ensure that entrants have no record of violence or credible plans for violence.


But the people are not being checked at the border ............ they are just being turned away.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. Consider how many of Trump's orders so far have been debated in Congress. Zero. In ONE WEEK he has turned the USA from a democracy to a dictatorship. There are KK checks and balances. Why not fire all those reps instead? He might as well; he's running the show like a dictator anyway.


You've got to be joking. I don't recall you complaining about Obama's many executive orders and executive actions--which he undertook specifically because neither Congress or the Senate would vote for his proposals.



> "One of the things that I will be emphasizing in this meeting is the fact that* we are not just going to be waiting for legislation* in order to make sure that we are providing Americans the kind of help that they need. I've got a pen, and I've got a phone. And I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward."


Someone else has now taken over the pen and the phone.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> But the people are not being checked at the border ............ they are just being turned away.


For 90 days until vetting procedures are in place.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently that's not the Libertarian Party that Macfury supports.


Read the previous post.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You've got to be joking. I don't recall you complaining about Obama's many executive orders and executive actions--which he undertook specifically because neither Congress or the Senate would vote for his proposals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone else has now taken over the pen and the phone.















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Two presidents, each using the pen and the phone to create executive actions and orders without either the approval of the House or Senate--and these matters are unrelated?

You're getting desperate now Mr. Biff.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

A little perspective, perhaps. terrorists didn't even come from the countries that have been banned.









http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...e-omits-those-linked-to-deadly-attacks-in-u-s


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> A little perspective, perhaps. terrorists didn't even come from the countries that have been banned.


Yes, we covered this already. Trump is trying to avoid the situations seen in Europe--not punish countries for killing Americans.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> For 90 days until vetting procedures are in place.


Not if you are a Syrian refugee.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

A little more perspective.


----------



## FeXL

Exactly. Which is precisely why the 97% meme is false.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Saying the same BS over and over does not make it true.


Never claimed I had.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You haven't proven anything.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Oh the times, they are a-changin'.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

.


----------



## Macfury

There is no call to ban Muslims. Pence and Trump are in agreement!

However, the constitution does not apply to non-Americans, so it's possible that it_ might_ be constitutional. Guess we'll never know!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There is no call to ban Muslims. Pence and Trump are in agreement!
> 
> However, the constitution does not apply to non-Americans, so it's possible that it_ might_ be constitutional. Guess we'll never know!


Sorry to disagree with your "alternative fact", mon ami, but within US, non-citizens have rights because of the 14th Amendment, which declares “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

As well, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. 

So, even you are protected in the US. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, only due process in a court of law once somebody arrives. It does not apply to people before they arrive or the process by which they are selected to arrive.



Dr.G. said:


> Sorry to disagree with your "alternative fact", mon ami, but within US, non-citizens have rights because of the 14th Amendment, which declares “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
> 
> As well, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.
> 
> So, even you are protected in the US. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yes, only due process in a court of law once somebody arrives. It does not apply to people before they arrive or the process by which they are selected to arrive.


Obviously. However, you said "... the constitution does not apply to non-Americans", and it does when they are in the US. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sorry to disagree with your "alternative fact", mon ami, but within US, non-citizens have rights because of the 14th Amendment, which declares “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
> 
> 
> 
> As well, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.
> 
> 
> 
> So, even you are protected in the US. Paix, mon ami.



No doubt. I'm not sure where Trump gets the idea of "guilty until proven innocent" from.


----------



## SINC

Better to get used to it all, than fret about it folks. 'Tis but the first of many more silly moves by Trump that will be corrected again and again by the courts.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> No doubt. I'm not sure where Trump gets the idea of "guilty until proven innocent" from.


The very basis of the Patriot Act and whatever piece of $#!t the drafted to replace it.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Better to get used to it all, than fret about it folks. 'Tis but the first of many more silly moves by Trump that will be corrected again and again by the courts.


Sadly, all too true, Sinc. Luckily, there are the still the "check and balances" of the court system. Not sure where the legislative check will come from Congress.


----------



## Rps

If I can throw my two cents in. Trump's error was his endless banter about criminal and terrorist Muslims. This washed over and really is poor optics on his travel ban. I see no problem with banning people from entering your country if you think you are at "war" with them or you feel you have a security issue. I do not recall reading of much immigration from Germany or Japan during WW2. Trump is trying to show he is a man of action and his word......but I think he is a blatant showman in a three ring circus. What I precieve as reckless and thoughtless POs will most certainly come back haunt him. Two years and counting..........


----------



## FeXL

Damn. There goes summer vacation...

BREAKING : Stop All of Your Vacation Plans! Iran Banishes U.S. Visitors in Retaliation to Trump



> Iran said they would stop U.S. citizens from entering the country in retaliation against President Trump’s visa ban against Tehran and six other majority-Muslim countries.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> If I can throw my two cents in. Trump's error was his endless banter about criminal and terrorist Muslims. This washed over and really is poor optics on his travel ban. I see no problem with banning people from entering your country if you think you are at "war" with them or you feel you have a security issue. I do not recall reading of much immigration from Germany or Japan during WW2. Trump is trying to show he is a man of action and his word......but I think he is a blatant showman in a three ring circus. What I precieve as reckless and thoughtless POs will most certainly come back haunt him. Two years and counting..........


Valid points, Rp. "Two years and counting" until the mid-term elections?


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Valid points, Rp. "Two years and counting" until the mid-term elections?


Yup!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Yup!


Thought so. Well, we shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Obviously. However, you said "... the constitution does not apply to non-Americans", and it does when they are in the US. Paix, mon ami.


Agreed on that point--I only meant in the realm of the discussion we were having on immigration.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Valid points, Rp. "Two years and counting" until the mid-term elections?


I suspect Trump is governing as though he has just two years to act. A 90-day ban on immigration from certain countries will be horrific to many Democrats and some establishment Republicans. Trump supporters will not be affected--in fact Trump promised this in his campaign.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I suspect Trump is governing as though he has just two years to act. A 90-day ban on immigration from certain countries will be horrific to many Democrats and some establishment Republicans. Trump supporters will not be affected--in fact *Trump promised this in his campaign.*


Yes he did and despite how reprehensible the policy is at least doing what he said he would do.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I suspect Trump is governing as though he has just two years to act. A 90-day ban on immigration from certain countries will be horrific to many Democrats and some establishment Republicans. Trump supporters will not be affected--in fact Trump promised this in his campaign.


Macfury I think your view on his timing is correct. Imagine two years to go before he turns into an Obama!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Agreed on that point--I only meant in the realm of the discussion we were having on immigration.


Glad we are in agreement. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

> The president issued a statement Sunday afternoon, defiantly defending his decision to implement an 'extreme vetting' program affecting people arriving in the United States from seven of the world's 53 Muslim-majority countries:
> 
> 'America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion to those fleeing oppression, but we will do so while protecting our own citizens and border. America has always been the land of the free and home of the brave. We will keep it free and keep it safe, as the media knows, but refuses to say.
> 
> *'My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror.*
> 
> 'To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over 40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by this order.
> 
> 'We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days. I have tremendous feeling for the people involved in this horrific humanitarian crisis in Syria.* My first priority will always be to protect and serve our country, but as President I will find ways to help all those who are suffering.'*


Read more: Trump defends his controversial 'Muslim ban' on Twitter | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Read more: Trump defends his controversial 'Muslim ban' on Twitter | Daily Mail Online



Then why not ban citizens from Saudi Arabia, the biggest source of anti-American terrorists, Osama Bin Laden, and 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Read more: Trump defends his controversial 'Muslim ban' on Twitter | Daily Mail Online


Seriously?



> Trump also took aim at The New York Times, whose front page Sunday was dominated by stories about airport protests.
> 
> 'Somebody with aptitude and conviction should buy the *FAKE NEWS* and failing @nytimes and either run it correctly or let it fold with dignity!' Trump raged.


I wonder what Trump considers real news? Probably only media outlets that support him and his policies. The man is already proving that he is a dolt, if we had any doubts before.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Then why not ban citizens from Saudi Arabia, the biggest source of anti-American terrorists, Osama Bin Laden, and 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11?


Good point!


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Read more: Trump defends his controversial 'Muslim ban' on Twitter | Daily Mail Online


The over-the-top outrage in response to the order probably alienates independents and further alienates blue collar Democrats. I'm not sure why, but Democrats and their most visible supporters seem intent on cementing the most disparaging stereotypes of liberals. It's self-destructive.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> The over-the-top outrage in response to the order probably alienates independents and further alienates blue collar Democrats. I'm not sure why, but Democrats and their most visible supporters seem intent on cementing the most disparaging stereotypes of liberals. It's self-destructive.


Uh, no. The reality is self evident:



> *Statistics show Trump doesn't have any business relations with the seven black-listed countries, but does with Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Turkey.*


It ain't rocket science even for blue collar Democrats and their most visible supporters.

So their is no "cementing the most disparaging stereotypes of liberals", it is just obvious for anyone who eyes to see and ears to hear.


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> Uh, duh:


You presented a (conspiratorial) argument, but at least it is an argument. Mobs chanting at the airports are not. My guess is that Americans will see video of those protests, and empty condemnation of the order more often than coherent arguments and some old fashioned policy debate. That makes the opposition look bad.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what Trump considers real news? Probably only media outlets that support him and his policies. The man is already proving that he is a dolt, if we had any doubts before.



Breitbart News. Like the Rebel Media, only much bigger.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> You presented a (conspiratorial) argument, but at least it is an argument. Mobs chanting at the airports are not. My guess is that Americans will see video of those protests, and empty condemnation of the order more often than coherent arguments and some old fashioned policy debate. That makes the opposition look bad.


No conspiracy. Just the facts, if you choose to interpret facts as conspiracy then that is your own doing and problem. 

However, you seem to be more than willing to spread your own personal conspiracy theories when it comes to Democrats and liberals and all based on no facts at all just your own unsubstantiated opinion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> You presented a (conspiratorial) argument, but at least it is an argument. Mobs chanting at the airports are not. My guess is that Americans will see video of those protests, and empty condemnation of the order more often than coherent arguments and some old fashioned policy debate. That makes the opposition look bad.



At least demonstrations are legal and supported by the Constitution of America. Blanket prejudicial profiling of entire countries via executive order in the absence of any evidence is not.


----------



## Macfury

The evidence is that the Obama administration identified these countries as countries of concern regarding terrorism last February. Do you all believe Trump colluded with Obama to make sure these countries did not conflict with Trump's business interests? Shheesh!

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program



> Release Date:
> February 18, 2016
> 
> For Immediate Release
> DHS Press Office
> Contact: 202-282-8010
> 
> WASHINGTON—The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.
> 
> Pursuant to the Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security had sixty days to determine whether additional countries or areas of concern should be subject to the travel or dual nationality restrictions under the Act. After careful consideration, and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security has determined that *Libya, Somalia, and Yemen* be included as countries of concern, specifically for individuals who have traveled to these countries since March 1, 2011....
> 
> The three additional countries designated today join *Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria* as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals. Under the new law, the Secretary of Homeland Security may waive these restrictions if he determines that such a waiver is in the law enforcement or national security interests of the United States.


Y'all didn't utter a peep when this happened.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Then why not ban citizens from Saudi Arabia, the biggest source of anti-American terrorists, Osama Bin Laden, and 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11?





Freddie_Biff said:


> At least demonstrations are legal and supported by the Constitution of America. Blanket prejudicial profiling of entire countries via executive order in the absence of any evidence is not.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ve-a-syrian/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.425b60d76560


----------



## Macfury

Customs agents ignore judge, enforce Trump’s travel ban: ACLU | New York Post



Freddie_Biff said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ve-a-syrian/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.425b60d76560


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ve-a-syrian/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.425b60d76560


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Gaslighting in a nutshell.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Customs agents ignore judge, enforce Trump’s travel ban: ACLU | New York Post



Houston, we have a problem. Welcome to be world of Victor Navorski.


----------



## Beej

A trip down memory lane...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWW1Q73eY8M

As for the general idea of Trump smearing Republicans on twitter: strikes me as unpresidential, but I'm not a Republican fan to begin with. Happy to see the warmongering get challenged, and hopefully the Democrats will increasingly do the same inside their party.


----------



## Macfury

Yep, Graham and McCain have been major warhawks and favoured interventionist Middle East policies for years--one of the reasons they were moot while Obama helped to destabilize Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Libya. They also quickly jumped on the Russia as enemy narrative in the closing days of the Obama administration. Meanwhile Trump favours non-intervention in the Middle East and a better relationship with Russia so naturally he's the new God of War.

Love the crappy Goebbels meme.So when Obama had a supermajority in his first two years and accused the Republicans of obstructionism--it was because he was actually the obstructionist. Got it! Memes make life so easy to understand!


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Yep, Graham and McCain have been major warhawks and favoured interventionist Middle East policies for years--one of the reasons they were moot while Obama helped to destabilize Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Libya. They also quickly jumped on the Russia as enemy narrative in the closing days of the Obama administration. Meanwhile Trump favours non-intervention in the Middle East and a better relationship with Russia so naturally he's the new God of War.


Trump did talk about bombing the s**t out of ISIS, but I agree that he does not appear to be more of a hawk. A low bar, and this remains to be proven by Trump, but McCain is not the go to guy on peace. I know little of Graham's musings. Sources on Graham?


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Trump did talk about bombing the s**t out of ISIS, but I agree that he does not appear to be more of a hawk. A low bar, and this remains to be proven by Trump, but McCain is not the go to guy on peace. I know little of Graham's musings. Sources on Graham?


Wikipedia:



> Graham supports an interventionist foreign policy. Graham and his fellow Senators John McCain and Joe Lieberman, who were frequently dubbed "the three amigos", travelled widely, pushing for American military intervention, particularly after the September 11 attacks. Their influence reached its zenith in 2007 as President Bush advocated for his surge strategy in Iraq, declining shortly before Lieberman retired from the Senate in 2013.
> ...
> 
> On November 6, 2010, at the Halifax International Security Forum, Graham called for a pre-emptive military strike to weaken the Iranian regime.
> 
> ...
> 
> Graham supported the NATO-led military intervention in Libya. In March 2015, he supported the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen.


Here's Graham, angry that the US will not go head to head with Russia in taking down Assad in Syria:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

You tell 'em Trump! Er... I mean Bill Clinton!





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Thanks for the supporting information. Quite the piece of work. Such a soothing voice for a warmonger. Hopefully his military ideas will not be promoted, regardless of partisan preferences.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You tell 'em Trump! Er... I mean Bill Clinton!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I remember when liberals were liberal. Stop rubbing it in, if you don't mind.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Who are you calling "dumbass"????? :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Who are you calling "dumbass"????? :lmao:



Why, that's the dumbassed thing I evah hoyd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Trump may be using executive orders, but he didn't start them. The fault lies with Obama and he was warned about it way back in 2014.

Rick Santorum: Obama's Order 'Opens Pandora's Box' For Future Presidents


----------



## Macfury

When someone suggests increasing corporate taxes you cheer like a fan. Who do you think pays those corporate taxes? The corporations? _You_ pay them dumbass!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why, that's the dumbassed thing I evah hoyd.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Trump may be using executive orders, but he didn't start them. The fault lies with Obama and he was warned about it way back in 2014.


Every president uses Executive Orders and executive actions--however Obama stretched their meaning to a shocking degree. Bam's precedent means a lot more room for Trump to operate this way. Simply repealing those orders and actions will make a huge difference in the way the country is governed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why, that's the dumbassed thing I evah hoyd.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lmao::clap::lma You sound like my father now, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::lma You sound like my father now, mon ami. Paix.


What dumbassed thing did you say in front of your foddah?


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> Then why not ban citizens from Saudi Arabia, the biggest source of anti-American terrorists, Osama Bin Laden, and 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11?


Because those people are already dead.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What dumbassed thing did you say in front of your foddah?


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Because those people are already dead.


And Trump is acting only on the seven countries identified by the Obama administration last February.


----------



## SINC

Caption this:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Don't be such a gullible fool. Trump's mother immigrated legally. Here are her documents from the port of entry at Ellis Island. It took me four minutes to check your meme. Can you try to think outside your box a little?


----------



## CubaMark

Anybody notice anything (rather important) missing here?










(whitehouse.gov)


----------



## Macfury

Obama's name is gone!!!!

Seriously, the Judicial Branch has no link on the snapshot provided.


----------



## CubaMark

The snapshot was taken moments before the time of posting, so it's accurate.

Here's the same section on December 31st, 2016 (via the WayBack Machine):










Is the Orange One just absent-mindedly forgetting the third branch of the U.S. government, or is he sending a message?


----------



## CubaMark

*Meanwhile....*










(NYMag)


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> And Trump is acting only on the seven countries identified by the Obama administration last February.


https://www.facebook.com/nigelfarageofficial/videos/1244130515634549/

yet no one will condemn the countries who ban Israelis world wide.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Is the Orange One just absent-mindedly forgetting the third branch of the U.S. government, or is he sending a message?


I doubt that Trump is personally masterminding the official web site. Looks like a glitch. The Judicial Branch page is still there:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/judicial-branch


----------



## CubaMark

*Also.....*

*COUP: Under cover of #muslimban, Bannon throws top general and spy off the National Security Council and installs himself in their stead
*
While the American public's attention was focused on the thousands of families whose lives were disrupted and even put at risk by Trump's ban on Muslims entering the USA, the US Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff were removed from the list of permanent attendees in the President's National Security Council. They were replaced with white nationalist Trump advisor Steve Bannon.

Trump announced the changes shortly after speaking with Putin for an hour.

Presidential press spokesman Sean Spicer downplayed Bannon's lack of expertise, describing the avowed racist as "a former naval officer." Bannon left the Navy in 1983. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, whom Bannon is replacing, is an active-service four-star general.

White House insiders say that Bannon personally intervened to extend the Muslim ban to Green Card holders, an illegal move that heightened the controversy around the ban.​
(BoingBoing)


----------



## Macfury

Seriously CM: "Avowed racist"? "White supremacist"? "Muslim ban"? And he did it "under cover"--although Spicer announced it and Trump publicly signed the Executive Order? Don't criticize FeXL if you're going to _Boing Boing_ for your news.


----------



## Macfury

Meanwhile, outside of the grip of the extreme coastal outrage machine:

Trump's heartland voters shrug off global uproar over immigration ban | Reuters


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Meanwhile, outside of the grip of the extreme coastal outrage machine:
> 
> Trump's heartland voters shrug off global uproar over immigration ban | Reuters


...sure... or you can check out the Trump_Regrets twitter feed, which retweets folks who've voted for President Orange and are now expressing their WTF?s: https://twitter.com/trump_regrets?lang=en


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ...sure... or you can check out the Trump_Regrets twitter feed, which retweets folks who've voted for President Orange and are now expressing their WTF?s: https://twitter.com/trump_regrets?lang=en


How many of them are real Trump voters and not Hillary supporters--or those stinking Russians?

Besides, how can a real Trump voter have gotten this wrong? Trump promised exactly this in his campaign--a temporary ban and review of vetting procedures:

"Boo-hooooo! Trump kept his promise and now I'm regretful."


----------



## CubaMark

Gee, it would be nice to be able to embed Facebook videos in here.... sigh...

*This Iranian-American man was waiting for his brother at LAX, when he received a call saying his brother would be deported.*

https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/891084561033052/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


----------



## Macfury

You can't change such procedures effectively without disappointing some people. Hopefully they will be reunited in 90 to 120 days. Many businesses were destroyed by Obamacare, and over-reaching EPA regulations, but nobody cared what the faces of those business owners looked like.



CubaMark said:


> Gee, it would be nice to be able to embed Facebook videos in here.... sigh...
> 
> *This Iranian-American man was waiting for his brother at LAX, when he received a call saying his brother would be deported.*
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/891084561033052/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> You can't change such procedures effectively without disappointing some people.


I agree. Any change to immigration will have issues for some people. CNN had a sob piece "Here's who Trump banned". Highlighting some unfortunate cases. Not sure if it is just me, but a lot of this feels like people think they have a right to be in there, or even here in Canada. We have immigration, there are people turned away and I am sure they are incredibly sad stories as well, but because it is sad or not convenient or does not go the way some people had planned their future is not a reason to let everyone in.


----------



## heavyall

CubaMark said:


> ...sure... or you can check out the Trump_Regrets twitter feed, which retweets folks who've voted for President Orange and are now expressing their WTF?s: https://twitter.com/trump_regrets?lang=en


Regret what? Voting for one of the few politicians who actually is doing exactly what he promised to on the campaign trail? The list was not very long, and he repeated it at every speech and debate -- there is no chance that a real Trump supporter did not know this was precisely what they voted for.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> .... a lot of this feels like people think they have a right to be in there, or even here in Canada. We have immigration, there are people turned away and I am sure they are incredibly sad stories as well, but because it is sad or not convenient or does not go the way some people had planned their future is not a reason to let everyone in.


IMHO, that's very uncharitable. We're talking about people who had passed through various vetting processes, who had official documents from the United States government that gave them every confidence that they'd be able to enter the country upon arrival. 

Students who had already been studying here, now deported. Refugees, who have *no safety net* and placed on 18-hour flights back to the Middle East, landing and disembarking to.... what? Where do these people go, now that the refugee agencies had thought they were off to their new homes? 

I daresay the "gosh, golly, tough to be them!" attitude is more than a wee bit cruel. This is way beyond "sad or not convenient".


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> IMHO, that's very uncharitable. We're talking about people who had passed through various vetting processes, who had official documents from the United States government that gave them every confidence that they'd be able to enter the country upon arrival.
> 
> 
> 
> Students who had already been studying here, now deported. Refugees, who have *no safety net* and placed on 18-hour flights back to the Middle East, landing and disembarking to.... what? Where do these people go, now that the refugee agencies had thought they were off to their new homes?
> 
> 
> 
> I daresay the "gosh, golly, tough to be them!" attitude is more than a wee bit cruel. This is way beyond "sad or not convenient".



As long as it's happening to someone else, I guess we don't need to get to worked up about it. Snowflakes melt eventually.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Seriously CM: "Avowed racist"? "White supremacist"? "Muslim ban"? And he did it "under cover"--although Spicer announced it and Trump publicly signed the Executive Order? Don't criticize FeXL if you're going to _Boing Boing_ for your news.




Good lord, Macfury. You're becoming as unhinged as Trump himself. You really ought to read up on Bannon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, I have. Actually researched it instead of skimming memes.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good lord, Macfury. You're becoming as unhinged as Trump himself. You really ought to read up on Bannon.


----------



## Macfury

I don't see you weeping for the people who are losing their jobs and businesses directly because of policies enacted by Notley, whom you voted for. 

Stiff upper lip, eh wot?



Freddie_Biff said:


> As long as it's happening to someone else, I guess we don't need to get to worked up about it. Snowflakes melt eventually.


----------



## Macfury

Meanwhile, back in Realville:

Most Support Temporary Ban on Newcomers from Terrorist Havens - Rasmussen Reports™


----------



## Beej

More dramatic events in U.S. politics. Recently, I have to make an effort to keep track of Canadian politics. Thankfully less dramatic.
First on CNN: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions - CNNPolitics.com

The move sets up a dramatic clash between the White House and Yates, who was appointed by President Barack Obama and is set to serve until Sen. Jeff Sessions, Trump's nominee for attorney general, is confirmed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't see you weeping for the people who are losing their jobs and businesses directly because of policies enacted by Notley, whom you voted for.
> 
> 
> 
> Stiff upper lip, eh wot?























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> More dramatic events in U.S. politics. Recently, I have to make an effort to keep track of Canadian politics. Thankfully less dramatic.
> 
> First on CNN: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> The move sets up a dramatic clash between the White House and Yates, who was appointed by President Barack Obama and is set to serve until Sen. Jeff Sessions, Trump's nominee for attorney general, is confirmed.



A perfect example of what happens when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government are not on the same page.


----------



## SINC

Referee memes are the lamest crap ever to grace the threads of ehMac. No longer even remotely funny, relevant or interesting to anyone but a guy with a phone.


----------



## Beej

Freddie_Biff said:


> A perfect example of what happens when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government are not on the same page.


Their system is more conflict-oriented by design, but we had a similar time with minority governments. Quite the event for political junkies, but the middle eventually lost a lot of votes (for many reasons). 

I'm not sure Americans will tire of drama, what with their head of state being a part of the popularity contest, but this is being tested. Is there a point of "too much drama" in U.S. politics and, if so, where do those fed up votes go?


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Referee memes are the lamest crap ever to grace the threads of ehMac. No longer even remotely funny, relevant or interesting to anyone but a guy with a phone.


A sad substitute for actual thought.


----------



## Macfury

Yates is out. New acting AG in.



Beej said:


> Their system is more conflict-oriented by design, but we had a similar time with minority governments. Quite the event for political junkies, but the middle eventually lost a lot of votes (for many reasons).
> 
> I'm not sure Americans will tire of drama, what with their head of state being a part of the popularity contest, but this is being tested. Is there a point of "too much drama" in U.S. politics and, if so, where do those fed up votes go?


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Yates is out. New acting AG in.


That was fast. I guess tomorrow is about how unprecedented that move is. Care to share a likely counter-argument?


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> That was fast. I guess tomorrow is about how unprecedented that move is. Care to share a likely counter-argument?


Likely: This would not have been necessary if the Dems had been quicker about approving Sessions' inevitable appointment. It is holding up Sessions' appointment that's unprecedented.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Likely: This would not have been necessary if the Dems had been quicker about approving Sessions' inevitable appointment. It is holding up Sessions' appointment that's unprecedented.


Thanks. We'll find out soon. My first guess was a tweet involving the word "losers", "sad", or "rigged", but your prediction sounds right for Spicer.

For the record, the current State of the Tweet:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/826229971584708608


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Referee memes are the lamest crap ever to grace the threads of ehMac. No longer even remotely funny, relevant or interesting to anyone but a guy with a phone.



And 100% accurate, Don. Improve your argument.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A sad substitute for actual thought.




But 100% accurate. Stop changing the subject and improve your argument.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Does it only take you a few hours to make political jokes about such a terrible tragedy? You should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## Macfury

You're not even using the referee memes appropriately! It's somewhat funny to see them misused, but not funny enough per square inch to encourage more of it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> But 100% accurate. Stop changing the subject and improve your argument.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Does it only take you a few hours to make political jokes about such a terrible tragedy? You should be ashamed of yourself.



Actually I'm ashamed of you and your alt-right views. They do not represent Canada very well.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're not even using the referee memes appropriately! It's somewhat funny to see them misused, but not funny enough per square inch to encourage more of it.



You brought up Notley in the American thread. Meme appropriate. Learn what non-sequitur means.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> Actually I'm ashamed of you and your alt-right views. They do not represent Canada very well.


I have yet to see any indication that Macfury holds "alt-right" views. 

You seem pretty fond of that Inigo Montoya meme, this would be a good time for you to read it to yourself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> I have yet to see any indication that Macfury holds "alt-right" views.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem pretty fond of that Inigo Montoya meme, this would be a good time for you to read it to yourself.



Nope, I'm pretty sure it means what I think it means. Even the Conservatives are not conservative enough for our little libertarian friend.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope, I'm pretty sure it means what I think it means.


I'm absolutely certain that you don't have a clue.



> Even the Conservatives are not conservative enough for our little libertarian friend.


If by "Conservatives", you mean the Conservative Party of Canada, then he's correct in that assessment. The CPC is barely conservative at all. Mostly Liberals wearing blue suits.


----------



## Beej

heavyall said:


> If by "Conservatives", you mean the Conservative Party of Canada, then he's correct in that assessment. The CPC is barely conservative at all. Mostly Liberals wearing blue suits.


You say that like it's a bad thing. I fondly remember the days of red torys like Clark. Although this historical mash-up is confusing at first glance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal-Conservative_Party


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> I'm absolutely certain that you don't have a clue.



I'm absolutely certain that you are being deliberately antagonistic. Issues? Try being a little kinder.


----------



## FeXL

Try being a _little_ more accurate...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Try being a little kinder.


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm absolutely certain that you are being deliberately antagonistic. Issues? Try being a little kinder.


Try not lying.


----------



## FeXL

heavyall said:


> I have yet to see any indication that Macfury holds "alt-right" views.


Freddie's repeated misuse of that term has me ROTFLMAO every time he uses it. As a member of the cadre he applies the term to, I'm amazed at the stupidity of it. There isn't an "alt-right" political position on these boards. Not one...


----------



## FeXL

Go, Donald!

Report: Trump Halted $181 Billion in Regulatory Costs on First Day in Office



> In one of his first acts as president, Donald Trump effectively halted nearly $200 billion worth of regulations, according to a new analysis.
> 
> President Trump has taken aggressive action to curb regulations in his first week, promising to cut 75 percent or "maybe more," and signing an executive order Monday to cut two regulations from the books when every new rule is introduced.
> 
> The first move came in the form of a memo to all federal agencies from Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, freezing all recently finalized and pending regulations. The American Action Forum, a center-right policy institute, found the action resulted in stopping rules that would cost the economy $181 billion.


<sigh> If only...


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Nails it...


----------



## CubaMark

(Danzinger)

*Related:* Senate committee votes 12-11 to approve Betsy DeVos in nomination hurdle

XX)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> XX)


Agreed... that person's editorial cartooning skills need a LOT of work.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Agreed... that person's editorial cartooning skills need a LOT of work.


You got that right. He doesn't nearly capture the snarky confidence of a woman whose family purchased her political position despite the overwhelming evidence of her complete unsuitability to be Sec'ty of Education.


----------



## Macfury

The US Constitution does not allow for a federal Department of Education. DeVos has been chosen to dismantle it, not run it.



CubaMark said:


> You got that right. He doesn't nearly capture the snarky confidence of a woman whose family purchased her political position despite the overwhelming evidence of her complete unsuitability to be Sec'ty of Education.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, just wondering......do you think Trump is a reincarnated Wilhelm ll, personality, traits, disposition.....amazing similarities.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> CubaMark, just wondering......do you think Trump is a reincarnated Wilhelm ll, personality, traits, disposition.....amazing similarities.


Kaiser Bill's Batman?


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> CubaMark, just wondering......do you think Trump is a reincarnated Wilhelm ll, personality, traits, disposition.....amazing similarities.


I don't consider my knowledge of the man and that period of history to be sufficiently developed to offer a worthwhile opinion, Rps, but thanks for asking.

In general, there is a danger in saying so-and-so is "just like Hitler", etc. Figures such as those are products of their very particular circumstances, and were allowed to act in great part due to the distance between the positions of power and the ability of the masses to organize in a timely manner. Trump exists in a very different period, and —hopefully— those who stand for human rights, decency and morality will be able to effectively organize against his ridiculous dictates.


----------



## CubaMark

*Meanwhile, this Associated Press report would be embarrassing for Trump... if the man had any sense of shame....*

*President Trump's "voter fraud expert" is registered in 3 states*

A man who President Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.

Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the President, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.

** * **​
Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.​(AP via NY Daily News)​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> *Meanwhile, this Associated Press report would be embarrassing for Trump... if the man had any sense of shame....*
> 
> *President Trump's "voter fraud expert" is registered in 3 states*
> A man who President Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.
> 
> Gregg Phillips, whose unsubstantiated claim that the election was marred by 3 million illegal votes was tweeted by the President, was listed on the rolls in Alabama, Texas and Mississippi, according to voting records and election officials in those states. He voted only in Alabama in November, records show.
> 
> ** * **​
> Trump has made an issue of people who are registered to vote in more than one state, using it as one of the bedrocks of his overall contention that voter fraud is rampant in the U.S. and that voting by 3 to 5 million immigrants illegally in the country cost him the popular vote in November.​(AP via NY Daily News)​


That would be what makes him an expert, of course.

However it is the Rothschild controlled AP that issued that report. You can expect a lot of smear campaigns from AP and Reuters at least until Trump see the errors of his ways and becomes properly puppetfied to the satisfaction of the super-elite.


----------



## Macfury

If you had any sense of shame you would stop posting nonsense like this.

Phillips old voter records were retained after he moved from those states. From your article:



> Phillips was registered in Alabama and Texas under the name Gregg Allen Phillips, with the identical Social Security number. Mississippi records list him under the name Gregg A. Phillips, and that record includes the final four digits of Phillips' Social Security number, his correct date of birth and a prior address matching one once attached to Gregg Allen Phillips. He has lived in all three states.
> 
> *At the time of November's presidential election, Phillips' status was "inactive" in Mississippi and suspended in Texas.*


Now we get to the meat of what Phillips is complaining about--and what a voter ID card would prevent:



> Officials in both states told the AP that Phillips _could have_ voted, however, by producing identification and updating his address at the polls.





CubaMark said:


> *Meanwhile, this Associated Press report would be embarrassing for Trump... if the man had any sense of shame....*
> 
> *President Trump's "voter fraud expert" is registered in 3 states*
> 
> A man who President Trump has promoted as an authority on voter fraud was registered to vote in multiple states during the 2016 presidential election, the Associated Press has learned.​


​


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> You got that right. He doesn't nearly capture the snarky confidence of a woman whose family purchased her political position despite the overwhelming evidence of her complete unsuitability to be Sec'ty of Education.


Why is the U.S. federal government so deeply involved in K-12 education (relative to Canada), and do you think that is a net positive?

A lot of their problems looks like a locally/regionally oriented issue being guided by an enormous institution that also handles international trade, war etc. They spend a lot to get very little.

I prefer the Canadian approach.


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Why is the U.S. federal government so deeply involved in K-12 education (relative to Canada), and do you think that is a net positive?
> 
> A lot of their problem looks like a locally/regionally oriented issue being guided by an enormous institution that also handles international trade, war etc. They spend a lot to get very little.
> 
> I prefer the Canadian approach.


I am not so sure the Canadian approach is acceptable either. Take for example one small example of the curriculum changes that installed new math into teaching. Kids today do not even know the basic multiplication tables. Nor basic physics or science or shop or home economics. All gone and most of it basic life skills.

I fear it is a systematic 'dumbing down' of the future population so they will have little understanding of how they are being controlled by the establishment. After all, those in positions of power have the time to await the transformation of the populace to live zombies that can be controlled through ignorance.


----------



## Beej

SINC said:


> I am not so sure the Canadian approach is acceptable either. Take for example one small example of the curriculum changes that installed new math into teaching. Kids today do not even know the basic multiplication tables. Nor basic physics or science or shop or home economics. All gone and most of it basic life skills.
> 
> I fear it is a systematic 'dumbing down' of the future population so they will have little understanding of how they are being controlled by the establishment. After all, those in positions of power have the time to await the transformation of the populace to live zombies that can be controlled through ignorance.


Would federal involvement improve this, make it worse, or be an unpredictable random influence?

While having one's preferred party in charge at the federal level is nice, the mixed responsibility and involvement of a very distant entity is negative to me, regardless of whether or not things get done this year under this federal administration. That's a structural mistake of convenience. Keep power over schools closer to yourself and, win or lose, you always have more influence (ie. one in 4.5 million, versus one in 34 million).


----------



## heavyall

Beej said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing.


It absolutely is a bad thing. If you like the other party's policies, go join them.



> I fondly remember the days of red torys like Clark.


There is a reason why his party no longer exists. 



> Although this historical mash-up is confusing at first glance:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal-Conservative_Party


Not really. Classical Liberalism is not the same thing as Social Liberalism. In the 1800s those people were Reformers and free market Libertarians.


----------



## Macfury

Trump's Supreme Court pick, Gorsuch, is a constitutional originalist--exactly as Trump promised. Thankfully the court will never see the likes of Merrick Garland.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Trump's Supreme Court pick, Gorsuch, is a constitutional originalist--exactly as Trump promised. Thankfully the court will never see the likes of Merrick Garland.


WTH is a constitutional originalist? Is it someone like Obama and Bush, who believes the Constitution should be ignored or better yet shredded whenever it interferes with the puppeteers agenda?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> WTH is a constitutional originalist? Is it someone like Obama and Bush, who believes the Constitution should be ignored or better yet shredded whenever it interferes with the puppeteers agenda?


Originalists believe that the Constitution was deliberately written as a forward-thinking document--not something to shred because you decide that what was written couldn't possible apply to modern sensibilities.


----------



## SINC

Oh my.

White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Oh my.
> 
> White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda


So much for "freedom of the press". You either agree with us or we shut you off. tptptptp 

As it stands now, CNN already employs several Trump advocates including Kayleigh McEnany, Jeffrey Lord and former Sen. Rick Santorum. Guess they are out of a job as well, since they provided a Trump-centric commentary whenever CNN covered an item re Pres. Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Short memory, Dr. G? I don't recall anyone on EhMac complaining about Obama's stance on FOX NEws.

Did Mainstream Media Forget How Obama Treated Fox News? - Caleb Parke



> In fact, let’s review the times Obama blamed the No. 1 name in news:
> 
> *October 2008*
> 
> Then-candidate Obama complained he would be polling higher if Fox didn’t exist. This may work in soap operas and song lyrics, but that’s not exactly the best start to a working relationship with the press.
> 
> “I am convinced that if there were no Fox News, I might be two or three points higher in the polls,” Obama told liberal journalist Matt Bai of the New York Times Magazine. “[T]he way I’m portrayed 24/7 is as a freak! I am the latté-sipping, New York Times-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effete, politically correct, arrogant liberal. Who wants somebody like that?”
> *
> October 2010*
> 
> Obama admitted in a softball interview with Rolling Stone that he “disagrees” with Fox News. No shock there, but added he believes Fox has a “destructive viewpoint.”
> 
> “I think Fox is part of that tradition — it is part of the tradition that has a very clear, undeniable point of view. It’s a point of view that I disagree with. It’s a point of view that I think is ultimately destructive for the long-term growth of a country that has a vibrant middle class and is competitive in the world. But as an economic enterprise, it’s been wildly successful. And I suspect that if you ask Mr. Murdoch what his number-one concern is, it’s that Fox is very successful.”
> 
> *December 2010*
> 
> After the Democrats’ midterm election shellacking, President Obama reportedly told labor leaders in a private meeting that Fox News was partly responsible for him “losing white males” who tune into the network to “hear Obama is a Muslim 24/7.”
> 
> He needed someone to blame for the massive losses because the next election was his.
> *
> September 2013*
> 
> Obama went after Fox News on the campaign trail for his health care law.
> 
> “If you’ve talked to somebody who said, ‘Well, I don’t know, I was watching Fox News and they said this is horrible,’ you can say, ‘you know what? Don’t take my word for it! Go on the website.”
> 
> *February 2014*
> 
> During a pre-Super Bowl interview, President Obama suggested Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly was being unfair for asking questions about ObamaCare’s shortcomings, the IRS scandal and Benghazi.
> 
> 
> *October 2014*
> 
> President Obama insisted ObamaCare is “working pretty well in the real world” despite it being a “fanged threat to freedom on Fox News” in a speech at Northwestern University.
> 
> Nevermind the painful costs it’s incurring now, and the fact that Democrats can’t defend it to save Obama’s legacy.
> 
> *September 2016*
> 
> At a Clinton fundraiser in New York City, President Obama predicted a close election “not because of Hillary’s flaws,” but because of Fox News and some blogs “that are churning out a lot of misinformation…”
> 
> Which brings us to our final whopper from the president:
> 
> *November 2016*
> 
> After Trump’s successful win on election day, Obama blamed Fox News for Democrats losing elections because of “Fox News in every bar and restaurant in big chunks of the country.”





Dr.G. said:


> So much for "freedom of the press". You either agree with us or we shut you off. tptptptp
> 
> As it stands now, CNN already employs several Trump advocates including Kayleigh McEnany, Jeffrey Lord and former Sen. Rick Santorum. Guess they are out of a job as well, since they provided a Trump-centric commentary whenever CNN covered an item re Pres. Trump.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Originalists believe that the Constitution was deliberately written as a forward-thinking document--not something to shred because you decide that what was written couldn't possible apply to modern sensibilities.


Macfury and ehMacman, I think the real issue with the constitution is not so much it was a forward thinking document, but those who take the constitution literally or those who think it should be interpreted for current situations. Like the chicken and the egg, it depends on your point of view.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Oh my.
> 
> White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda


This is a joke to be sure. CNN spent almost two years giving Trump unlimited access in its broadcasts. Even when the Donald had nothing to say it broadcasted it.....anti-Trump......really


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...ecution-of-donald-trump.html?campaign_id=A100


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Absolutely. They bought into the Democrats' leaked "pied piper" strategy of making Trump the front-runner so the Republicans would handily lose the election. The Podesta e-mails revealed that the Clinton campaign was working closely with contacts at several networks to push Democrat campaign strategy.



Rps said:


> This is a joke to be sure. CNN spent almost two years giving Trump unlimited access in its broadcasts. Even when the Donald had nothing to say it broadcasted it.....anti-Trump......really


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Macfury and ehMacman, I think the real issue with the constitution is not so much it was a forward thinking document, but those who take the constitution literally or those who think it should be interpreted for current situations. Like the chicken and the egg, it depends on your point of view.


A predominant theme within the Constitution is protecting individual rights over the needs of the current Government. Those who drafted the document clearly recognized that the greatest threats would come from within and not from the outside. Sadly in recent years all of the safe guards have been stretched so thin that putting it all back together is a very daunting task.

To reclaim the rights demanded by the Constitution requires a Supreme Court which refuses to rationalize various assaults including The Patriot Act.

So if the man from Colorado fits the bill, then let's confirm him.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Macfury and ehMacman, I think the real issue with the constitution is not so much it was a forward thinking document, but those who take the constitution literally or those who think it should be interpreted for current situations. Like the chicken and the egg, it depends on your point of view.


An originalist believes that it should be _applied_ to current situations--but is unlikely to say: "Since we can't achieve the outcome we want using the Constitution, the Constitution needs to be changed or ignored."


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> So if the man from Colorado fits the bill, then let's confirm him.


One of his bugbears is over-reach by the Executive Branch. Sounds good to me.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> A predominant theme within the Constitution is protecting individual rights over the needs of the current Government. Those who drafted the document clearly recognized that the greatest threats would come from within and not from the outside. Sadly in recent years all of the safe guards have been stretched so thin that putting it all back together is a very daunting task.
> 
> To reclaim the rights demanded by the Constitution requires a Supreme Court which refuses to rationalize various assaults including The Patriot Act.
> 
> So if the man from Colorado fits the bill, then let's confirm him.


Partially I agree. Times and social mores change. Why is it deemed unconstitutional to prevent the average person from having military grade weapons, but a Ride Programme is okay? Where do literalist stand on technology that requires a constitutional review when no one even dreamed that that technology would exist when the constitution was drafted. So, in a Republic, when the views of the population counter those of the founding fathers or even the SCOUS what does one do. This is the rub that has haunted presidents since there was a constitution or a SCOUS.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Partially I agree. Times and social mores change. Why is it deemed unconstitutional to prevent the average person from having military grade weapons, but a Ride Programme is okay? Where do literalist stand on technology that requires a constitutional review when no one even dreamed that that technology would exist when the constitution was drafted. So, in a Republic, when the views of the population counter those of the founding fathers or even the SCOUS what does one do. This is the rub that has haunted presidents since there was a constitution or a SCOUS.


Thing is the founding fathers recognized that and provided for change. The process is rigorous and change is not at all easy. Nor should it be. The very very definition of tyranny revolves around oppression and the Constitution is there to thwart tyranny and oppression. If it could be changed at the whim of the current President or Congress, those safeguards would be completely meaningless.

NOTE: The Bill of Rights was created via Constitutional amendments and is still a worthy backbone defining human rights within the US.


----------



## Macfury

Trump, Marking Black History Month, pledges to reduce violence in cities and improve schools - Washington Times



> In a White House meeting with African-Americans to mark Black History Month, President Trump pledged Wednesday to reduce violence on the streets of Chicago and to improve wages and schools across the nation.
> 
> “We’re going to have to do something about Chicago,” Mr. Trump said of the city with a soaring murder rate. “What’s happening in Chicago should not be happening with this country.”
> 
> One of the participants in the meeting, Pastor Darrell Scott of Cleveland, Ohio, told the president that gang leaders in Chicago have contacted him seeking solutions to the violence.
> 
> “They reached out to be because they associated me with you,” he told Mr. Trump. “They respect you, they believe in what you’re doing and they want to have a sit-down about lowering that body count. No politicians, straight street guys, they’re going to commit to lower body count and we’re going to come in with some social programs.”


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Thing is the founding fathers recognized that and provided for change. The process is rigorous and change is not at all easy. Nor should it be. The very very definition of tyranny revolves around oppression and the Constitution is there to thwart tyranny and oppression. If it could be changed at the whim of the current President or Congress, those safeguards would be completely meaningless.
> 
> NOTE: The Bill of Rights was created via Constitutional amendments and is still a worthy backbone defining human rights within the US.


Oh I agree! However wait until you have an issue which requires a constitutional review. You might have a slightly different opinion depending on the size of those who agree with you. In my view the greatest enemy of the U.S. constitution is the Supreme Court whose decisions in a few cases have all the trappings of dominant class hegemony as Gramsci would say....PAC funding as freedom of speech comes to mind.... in our own country we have many issues which the State imposes on Provincial jurisdictions, yet few contest. So do we deem this "unconstitutional" even those we do not have a constitution per se in those matters. All this aside, I do like how the U.S. vets its cabinet and SC judges....I am envious and wish we did the same here.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump, Marking Black History Month, pledges to reduce violence in cities and improve schools - Washington Times


Selective facts here. Yes Chicago has an alarming rate but crime in the U.S. is down to the 1970s levels. BTW, wasn't his comment slightly racist....


----------



## Macfury

A different reporter. That's all. 

Which comment?



Rps said:


> Selective facts here. Yes Chicago has an alarming rate but crime in the U.S. is down to the 1970s levels. BTW, wasn't his comment slightly racist....


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> A different reporter. That's all.
> 
> Which comment?


I think choosing Black History month and crime rates and in-schools. But then again aren't all Mexicans thieves and rapists!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ...Pastor Darrell Scott of Cleveland, Ohio, told the president that gang leaders in Chicago have contacted him seeking solutions to the violence.
> 
> “They reached out to be because they associated me with you,” he told Mr. Trump. “They respect you, they believe in what you’re doing and they want to have a sit-down about lowering that body count.


Yeah... that sounds exactly like what gang leaders are likely to say to the head of one of those evangelical megachurches. Forgive me for being a _weeeeeeeeeee_ bit skeptical....

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

And I'm supposed to buy the news report you offered on the meeting wholesale?



CubaMark said:


> Yeah... that sounds exactly like what gang leaders are likely to say to the head of one of those evangelical megachurches. Forgive me for being a _weeeeeeeeeee_ bit skeptical....
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## heavyall

SINC said:


> Oh my.
> 
> White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda


I'm surprised CNN got a pass as long as they did. Their irrational anti-Trump agenda has disqualified them as a legitimate news agency long ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

As CNN's Wolf Blitzer would say -- "Breaking News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The US is buying the Great Wall of China ............ having it delivered to the US/Mexican border .................. having the shipment sent COD which the Mexicans will have to sign for. 

Of course, this looks like an interesting movie on the need for a wall. 

The Great Wall | Movie Site & Trailer | February 17, 2017


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> I'm surprised CNN got a pass as long as they did. Their irrational anti-Trump agenda has disqualified them as a legitimate news agency long ago.



You sure seem to support dictatorship-style governance, based on what you write here. Is that true?


----------



## FeXL

How much crap do you expect people to eat before they get tired of the taste in their mouth? Enough is enough. 

You call it a dictatorship. I call it drawing a line in the sand & calling bull$h!t. When CNN starts acting like a responsible news agency again, maybe they'll get the callback. Until then, screw 'em...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem to support dictatorship-style governance, based on what you write here. Is that true?


----------



## Macfury

Besides, CNN is still welcome at the White House. Trump simply said he wouldn't extend himself by appearing on their shows, just as Obama and his minions refused to appear on FOX for years.



FeXL said:


> How much crap do you expect people to eat before they get tired of the taste in their mouth? Enough is enough.
> 
> You call it a dictatorship. I call it drawing a line in the sand & calling bull$h!t. When CNN starts acting like a responsible news agency again, maybe they'll get the callback. Until then, screw 'em...


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem to support dictatorship-style governance, based on what you write here. Is that true?


I support "no more bull****" governance. If anything, Trump is still taking it far too easy on CNN. They SHOULD have their credentials fully removed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> I support "no more bull****" governance. If anything, Trump is still taking it far too easy on CNN. They SHOULD have their credentials fully removed.



Wow. Your world seems a little frightening from my perspective.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Jose pays for it through lost profits because he has to either cut the price of his avocados, or accept lower sales, when avocados from California, Florida, Colombia, Peru, Dominican Republic, Indonesia, etc cost less in comparison.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> Jose pays for it through lost profits because he has to either cut the price of his avocados, or accept lower sales, when avocados from California, Florida, Colombia, Peru, Dominican Republic, Indonesia, etc cost less in comparison.



I'll bet José's workers will work for a lot less than their American counterparts. The other countries are probably comparable.


----------



## heavyall

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'll bet José's workers will work for a lot less than their American counterparts. The other countries are probably comparable.


Probably. Either way, the American consumer doesn't pay more than they already were, AND the money for the wall gets paid for by Jose.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> Probably. Either way, the American consumer doesn't pay more than they already were, AND the money for the wall gets paid for by Jose.



I've read a number of accounts that would dispute that. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Probably. Either way, the American consumer doesn't pay more than they already were, AND the money for the wall gets paid for by Jose.


Pretty funny to see these crazy-bad meme lessons in economics always assuming that the only two countries in the equation are Mexico and the US. Because people will only eat Mexican avocados of course. They're a captive market.


----------



## Rps

Wow! I can't believe what I'm reading here.....have any of you actually worked with trade agreements or international trade organizations. If you think a BAT will only hurt Mexicans I'd like to know what you are smoking. Trade wise Mexico's numbers are minimal to the real deficit champion which is China. Let's get real here. Trump's wall rant is for show only and will hurt consumers in the long run as the cheap labourers in the agricultural segment and low wage jobs in the U.S. employers will balk at it. Sadly, and quite often, it is a case of the Mexican's doing work Americans will not do....sound familiar..... BAT assessment, in many ways is similar to dumping charges....and guess who ultimately pays for those........ Mexico needs to retain its people, yes, but building a wall won't do that....growing a Mexican society who sees "the good life" in Mexico will.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Trump's wall rant is for show only and will hurt consumers in the long run as the cheap labourers in the agricultural segment and low wage jobs in the U.S. employers will balk at it.


Do you think this is only about labour?


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Do you think this is only about labour?


No, as stated in the last two lines of my post.


----------



## FeXL

Woohoo!!!

POLL: 47% Say U.S. Heading in Right Direction, Highest Level of Optimism in Over 12 Years



> Forty-seven percent (47%) of Likely U.S. Voters think the country is heading in the right direction, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey for the week ending January 26.


Oh, and Bill's Wife will never be president...


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> No, as stated in the last two lines of my post.


IMHO, you're missing some significant other reasons for the construction of a wall: Illegal immigration, illegal voters, drugs, the movement of terrorists into the US via Central America & Mexico, to name a few. The latter two will be affected exactly zero by more attractive living conditions in Mexico.


----------



## Macfury

It would raise the price of _some _US imports _somewhat_.

Americans will not do certain work because the employer is not willing to pay them what an American will do the work for. At a certain price, fruit picking robots will take over--end of story.





Rps said:


> Wow! I can't believe what I'm reading here.....have any of you actually worked with trade agreements or international trade organizations. If you think a BAT will only hurt Mexicans I'd like to know what you are smoking. Trade wise Mexico's numbers are minimal to the real deficit champion which is China. Let's get real here. Trump's wall rant is for show only and will hurt consumers in the long run as the cheap labourers in the agricultural segment and low wage jobs in the U.S. employers will balk at it. Sadly, and quite often, it is a case of the Mexican's doing work Americans will not do....sound familiar..... BAT assessment, in many ways is similar to dumping charges....and guess who ultimately pays for those........ Mexico needs to retain its people, yes, but building a wall won't do that....growing a Mexican society who sees "the good life" in Mexico will.


Mexico better get on that!



Rps said:


> ....growing a Mexican society who sees "the good life" in Mexico will.


----------



## SINC

Costly . . .

Trump Tower security is costing the US taxpayer $400,000 every single day | The Independent


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Mexico needs to retain its people, yes, but building a wall won't do that....growing a Mexican society who sees "the good life" in Mexico will.


Exactly. Anyone who thinks that Mexicans happily cross the dangerous frontier (desert; murderous militias) to find exploitative work in the fields and factories of the USA is revealing a profound lack of understanding of the realities. 

José works crap jobs or borrows money from friends and family, then pays a coyote to "help" them cross the border. A percentage of those people take the money, toss José over the fence, and say "good luck" with no support for the worst part of the crossing: surviving a day or two walking through desert. That's if José (or Josefina) isn't pretty enough to bother raping.

So José doesn't die (raped or not) and manages to make it to the "promised land". If José doesn't have friends or family who facilitate entry into an existing (exploitive) work scenario, then he now joins the thousands of others who are up at dawn to stand on a street corner and hope a contractor looking for off-the-books labourers shows up and chooses them.

No health insurance. No accident insurance.

José may have had a plan of working for a few months, or a year, or a few years, save up some cash, and go home to invest that money in a business, or to build a home, or to support their family. But here's the thing that José knows: he damn sure doesn't want to have to cross that border again... he knows he's lucky to have made it the first time. So they extend their stay, make a little more money, because there won't likely be another chance. 

José is separated from his family. Maybe "just" from his parent and siblings. Or maybe from his wife and child(ren). For years. Years of loneliness, separation and no small amount of hopelessness.

And if José gets caught? Detention centres, crowded with other seekers of the streets paved with gold. Released to Mexican immigration, they return to their hometowns and families. But they've gone back with nothing - any savings they might have had are hidden under a mattress, because how can an undocumented migrant open a bank account (if s/he trusts banks - and coming from the disaster that is Mexico, that's unlikely). And that mattress? Maybe it's in a friends' home, who might be honest enough to help send the funds to Mexico. Maybe it's a flop, and those riches are lost forever.

Mexico ain't no great shakes. Those who have been lucky enough (or via nepotism / criminality) to have an income can live very well here. But the official poverty rate in 2014 was *46.2 percent*... that's 55.3-*million* people. One-and-a-third Canadas worth of people. The narcos own the cops and politicians, and have heavily infiltrated the banks. Anyone who tries to get things under control is either killed outright or via threats to their families, goes along with it all. 

The ideologically-Right-wing, neoliberal deregulators who are in power federally - the PRI, run by the national joke known as Enrique Peña Nieto (Trump's favourite punching bag of late), is well into the privatization of PEMEX, the country's national petroleum country. They're selling off the country's patrimony to the highest bidder, and the repercussions are enormous for Mexico, which has traditionally softened the blow on society through petroleum subsidies of social and educational programs. The "every man for himself" motto is becoming entrenched. Electricity and water are also in various stages of being privatized. For people who can't afford a one-cent rise in the price of tortillas, this is a recipe for further disaster and worsening poverty.

As for José? He went back across the border. Twice - he was picked up in a "catch and release" operation after tossing all of his cash to a coyote. The third time, he made it, alone, and is back with the ex-wife and kids he has in the USA. Kids he didn't see for two years after being deported. He knows that this time he has to be extremely careful... another deportation and with the increased attention Trump is giving to the border, he probably wouldn't make it across again. And there is no legal way for him to visit his children after having been deported, he's flagged. IF he manages to continue to find under-the-table work, and save money while supporting his kids, he'll use it to build a modest house back in Mexico. Someday. But he'll come back to a country in economic ruin, with no pension, likely little to no savings, to scrape by based on whatever he could pull together working as a labourer in the North, and that ain't much.

Hope? Not very friggin' much. And he's just one of the hordes of Latin Americans who cross the border, or try to, daily, because the reality they're coming from is so very, very much worse. Migrants from Guatemala, from Nicaragua, from the disaster that is Honduras... desperate people looking for any possibility for a better life.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> IMHO, you're missing some significant other reasons for the construction of a wall: .... illegal voters...


Drinking Trump's flavor-aid again, are you? XX)



:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

OK, everybody together, "Awwwwwww..."

Soros’s bad bet against Trump cost his clients $1bn



> George Soros’s hedge fund was one of the biggest losers of 2016, as the Hungarian-born billionaire’s misplaced investments turned into a $1 billion loss for his clients, according to a report by hedge fund investor LCH Investments, cited by Bloomberg.
> 
> ...
> 
> After Donald Trump’s election victory, Soros made some bearish market bets. While Soros called Trump a "would-be dictator," and predicted uncertainty and sell-off after his win, the markets rallied significantly.


Yeah, as in the Dow Jones hitting 20,000 kind of rally.

Not as smart as he thinks he is...

Related:

‘It Looked Ugly’: Firm Tied to Clintons Lands First Day On Open Market, Tanks Immediately



> Laureate Education, Inc., which has close ties to Bill and Hillary Clinton, tanked on its first day in the stock market.
> 
> The for-profit firm’s Initial Public Offering (IPO) of stock to potential investors was put on the market Wednesday by KKR and other leveraged buyout owners in the hope of reducing a crushing $4 billion debt.


No wonder Bill's Wife is looking at speaking engagements again...


----------



## Macfury

And how many more people should the US let in? Another 20 million? Anybody who wants to?



CubaMark said:


> Exactly. Anyone who thinks that Mexicans happily cross the dangerous frontier (desert; murderous militias) to find exploitative work in the fields and factories of the USA is revealing a profound lack of understanding of the realities.
> 
> José works crap jobs or borrows money from friends and family, then pays a coyote to "help" them cross the border. A percentage of those people take the money, toss José over the fence, and say "good luck" with no support for the worst part of the crossing: surviving a day or two walking through desert. That's if José (or Josefina) isn't pretty enough to bother raping.
> 
> So José doesn't die (raped or not) and manages to make it to the "promised land". If José doesn't have friends or family who facilitate entry into an existing (exploitive) work scenario, then he now joins the thousands of others who are up at dawn to stand on a street corner and hope a contractor looking for off-the-books labourers shows up and chooses them.
> 
> No health insurance. No accident insurance.
> 
> José may have had a plan of working for a few months, or a year, or a few years, save up some cash, and go home to invest that money in a business, or to build a home, or to support their family. But here's the thing that José knows: he damn sure doesn't want to have to cross that border again... he knows he's lucky to have made it the first time. So they extend their stay, make a little more money, because there won't likely be another chance.
> 
> José is separated from his family. Maybe "just" from his parent and siblings. Or maybe from his wife and child(ren). For years. Years of loneliness, separation and no small amount of hopelessness.
> 
> And if José gets caught? Detention centres, crowded with other seekers of the streets paved with gold. Released to Mexican immigration, they return to their hometowns and families. But they've gone back with nothing - any savings they might have had are hidden under a mattress, because how can an undocumented migrant open a bank account (if s/he trusts banks - and coming from the disaster that is Mexico, that's unlikely). And that mattress? Maybe it's in a friends' home, who might be honest enough to help send the funds to Mexico. Maybe it's a flop, and those riches are lost forever.
> 
> Mexico ain't no great shakes. Those who have been lucky enough (or via nepotism / criminality) to have an income can live very well here. But the official poverty rate in 2014 was *46.2 percent*... that's 55.3-*million* people. One-and-a-third Canadas worth of people. The narcos own the cops and politicians, and have heavily infiltrated the banks. Anyone who tries to get things under control is either killed outright or via threats to their families, goes along with it all.
> 
> The ideologically-Right-wing, neoliberal deregulators who are in power federally - the PRI, run by the national joke known as Enrique Peña Nieto (Trump's favourite punching bag of late), is well into the privatization of PEMEX, the country's national petroleum country. They're selling off the country's patrimony to the highest bidder, and the repercussions are enormous for Mexico, which has traditionally softened the blow on society through petroleum subsidies of social and educational programs. The "every man for himself" motto is becoming entrenched. Electricity and water are also in various stages of being privatized. For people who can't afford a one-cent rise in the price of tortillas, this is a recipe for further disaster and worsening poverty.
> 
> As for José? He went back across the border. Twice - he was picked up in a "catch and release" operation after tossing all of his cash to a coyote. The third time, he made it, alone, and is back with the ex-wife and kids he has in the USA. Kids he didn't see for two years after being deported. He knows that this time he has to be extremely careful... another deportation and with the increased attention Trump is giving to the border, he probably wouldn't make it across again. And there is no legal way for him to visit his children after having been deported, he's flagged. IF he manages to continue to find under-the-table work, and save money while supporting his kids, he'll use it to build a modest house back in Mexico. Someday. But he'll come back to a country in economic ruin, with no pension, likely little to no savings, to scrape by based on whatever he could pull together working as a labourer in the North, and that ain't much.
> 
> Hope? Not very friggin' much. And he's just one of the hordes of Latin Americans who cross the border, or try to, daily, because the reality they're coming from is so very, very much worse. Migrants from Guatemala, from Nicaragua, from the disaster that is Honduras... desperate people looking for any possibility for a better life.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> And how many more people should the US let in? Another 20 million? Anybody who wants to?


It would seem to make more sense to find a way to legalize these undocumented workers and their families, instead of spending billions of dollars (see previous article a couple of pages back in this thread) to expel them.

Given that they contribute to the economy, and their exploited labour supports industry and agriculture in the USA, rounding them up and forcing them out will be costly both on enforcement and in the resulting loss of that labour.


----------



## CubaMark

*And now, this:*

*Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam*










The Trump administration wants to revamp and rename a U.S. government program designed to counter all violent ideologies so that it focuses solely on Islamist extremism, five people briefed on the matter told Reuters.

The program, "Countering Violent Extremism," or CVE, would be changed to "Countering Islamic Extremism" or "Countering Radical Islamic Extremism," the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.

Such a change would reflect Trump's election campaign rhetoric and criticism of former President Barack Obama for being weak in the fight against Islamic State and for refusing to use the phrase "radical Islam" in describing it. Islamic State has claimed responsibility for attacks on civilians in several countries.

* * *​
Just in the past two years, authorities blamed radical and violent ideologies as the motives for a white supremacist's shooting rampage inside a historic African-American church in Charleston, South Carolina and Islamist militants for shootings and bombings in California, Florida and New York.​
(Reuters)


----------



## Macfury

What about the next group of 20 million? Too expensive to keep them out I'll bet.



CubaMark said:


> It would seem to make more sense to find a way to legalize these undocumented workers and their families, instead of spending billions of dollars (see previous article a couple of pages back in this thread) to expel them.
> 
> Given that they contribute to the economy, and their exploited labour supports industry and agriculture in the USA, rounding them up and forcing them out will be costly both on enforcement and in the resulting loss of that labour.


----------



## FeXL

Oooooo, that stung. <snort>

Did you come up with that yourself or did it come from _Snopes_? Or _BoingBoing_? Or _MotherJones_? Or some other pride-of-the-left "news" site? Perhaps even _MotherCorpse_?



CubaMark said:


> Drinking Trump's flavor-aid again, are you?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Oooooo, that stung. <snort>
> 
> Did you come up with that yourself or did it come from _Snopes_? Or _BoingBoing_? Or _MotherJones_? Or some other pride-of-the-left "news" site? Perhaps even _MotherCorpse_?


*EXCELLENT COMEBACK, FeXL! Wow!* That really put me in my place! 

I am duly chastised.... 












NOT. tptptptp


----------



## screature

I think that it would be a good thing if first we look at the historical data when it pertains to the US/Mexican border and the drug trade and who benefits from it both in Mexico and the US. Do some research before you express an uneducated opinion. 

The US is directly involved in the drug trade from Mexico to the US, make no mistake about it!

For those who did not get the message in the drama "Breaking Bad", it is real. It is essentially based on fact, with a lot of fiction thrown in to make it entertaining. 

But it is real in that there are plenty of Americans who profit in a big way from the death and destruction that occurs almost every day in northern Mexico.

It is not so simple as some people would like to portray it, namely the Donald because he has no clue, he is too interested who is eligible to win the Miss America Pageant or whatever the hell it is called these days.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark, your argument appears to be that any effort to control illegal immigration from Mexico is too expensive. 

Although it is not too expensive for Mexico to deport illegal immigrants from Central America. 

That about sum it up?


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> It would seem to make more sense to find a way to legalize these undocumented workers and their families, instead of spending billions of dollars (see previous article a couple of pages back in this thread) to expel them.
> 
> Given that they contribute to the economy, and their exploited labour supports industry and agriculture in the USA, rounding them up and forcing them out will be costly both on enforcement and in the resulting loss of that labour.


Somewhere Marx is smiling!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Somewhere Marx is smiling!


Not for long!


----------



## FeXL

As did your OP. Sorry you're so thick you couldn't read the sarcasm in my response, Dr...



CubaMark said:


> That really put me in my place!


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> It is not so simple as some people would like to portray it, namely the Donald because he has no clue, he is too interested who is eligible to win the Miss America Pageant or whatever the hell it is called these days.


Keerist, screature...

Look, I don't know if your pi$$ed off at the world right now or what but, you got to get it together.

On one hand you're castigating others for not behaving like adults and for not using facts and not being informed & in the next breath you post crap like this.

Which the hell is it?

So you don't like Trump. Fine. I get it. Tear apart his policies & leave the character assassinations to the Progs on these boards who can't formulate an argument in the first place.

Jeezuz...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Keerist, screature...
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I don't know if your pi$$ed off at the world right now or what but, you got to get it together.
> 
> 
> 
> On one hand you're castigating others for not behaving like adults and for not using facts and not being informed & in the next breath you post crap like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Which the hell is it?
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't like Trump. Fine. I get it. Tear apart his policies & leave the character assassinations to the Progs on these boards who can't formulate an argument in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezuz...



Chill, dude. Not everything is an attack worthy of your fiery witty comebacks.


----------



## Macfury

Comeback envy?


Freddie_Biff said:


> Chill, dude. Not everything is an attack worthy of your fiery witty comebacks.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Comeback envy?



No, Macfury. More like it would be nice to have some threads here at ehMac that are free of the petty bickering that has become a mainstay. Not everything requires an argument. Sometimes it's nice to just post stuff rhetorically.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Somewhere Marx is smiling!


Karl or Groucho?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, Macfury. More like it would be nice to have some threads here at ehMac that are free of the petty bickering that has become a mainstay. Not everything requires an argument. Sometimes it's nice to just post stuff rhetorically.


There is ............ The Shangri-la Clubhouse where the most arguing comes with debates about which doxie puppy is cuter, what the answer to SAP's Sunday Whatzit might be, and is coffee best to be had before or after a nap. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Karl or Groucho?


Karl, any country that would have Groucho as a citizen he wouldn't think worth joining.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Karl, any country that would have Groucho as a citizen he wouldn't think worth joining.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

How that elephant got into Karl's pajamas I'll nevah know...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> There is ............ The Shangri-la Clubhouse where the most arguing comes with debates about which doxie puppy is cuter, what the answer to SAP's Sunday Whatzit might be, and is coffee best to be had before or after a nap. Paix, mon ami.


It's true. I consider the clubhouse to be sacred, and rarely go there!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's true. I consider the clubhouse to be sacred, and rarely go there!



Deep Thoughts was sacred until my little acerbic alt-right friend discovered it.


----------



## FeXL

Deep Thoughts is a joke, Freddie.

Deal with it. It's now open season, just like all of the other safe spaces you've attempted to create on these boards.

Go elsewhere if you don't want your very core insulted every time you post crap like what's on there. Deep Thoughts, indeed. More like Chicken $h!t...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Deep Thoughts was sacred until my little acerbic alt-right friend discovered it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Comeback envy?


More @ comeback empty...


----------



## FeXL

If it's important enough to post on a public board, it's good enough for honest scrutiny & comment.

Free world, remember? Deal with it.

Want rhetorical comment? Talk to your coffee klatch...



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...free of the petty bickering that has become a mainstay.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

That's a lotta cabbage—an extra million dollars A DAY that is taxpayers will have to cough up. Or over $1.2 billion over 4 years. Yup, the Trump administration sure is frugal about spending other people's money. 










http://the-daily.buzz/a/first-lady-...2&tse_id=INF_7e544840e95a11e6a03c354c456e1db2


----------



## Macfury

Way behind Freddie. She's moving in this summer.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Deep Thoughts is a joke, Freddie.
> 
> 
> 
> Deal with it. It's now open season, just like all of the other safe spaces you've attempted to create on these boards.
> 
> 
> 
> Go elsewhere if you don't want your very core insulted every time you post crap like what's on there. Deep Thoughts, indeed. More like Chicken $h!t...



You're like a rude dog, pissing on anything it finds just to try to mark your territory. I imagine you're a sparkling conversationalist at parties too. People just can't get enough of you and your cynicism.


----------



## Macfury

I think of FeXL as optimistic.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think of FeXL as optimistic.



Yes, I imagine you would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's true. I consider the clubhouse to be sacred, and rarely go there!


Well, you are always welcome there, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

An interesting commentary from, in my opinion, a respected and honest journalist. 

Carl Bernstein on covering Trump: Follow the money - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting commentary from, in my opinion, a respected and honest journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> Carl Bernstein on covering Trump: Follow the money - CNNPolitics.com




One of the best the "fake news" has to offer! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Is that Obama minion David Axelrod doing the interview? I wonder if CNN will still be on the air next year?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Remember the Bowling Green Massacre? Neither do I, but I'm sure those who distrust the MSM must know about it. 










http://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/2/14494478/bowling-green-massacre


----------



## CubaMark

Jeebus. It's like we're living in Bizarro world, with that Superman with a bad skin condition... 

Gotta love those "alternative facts"

XX)


----------



## FeXL

Curious, you never made any comment about the $181 billion Trump saved on day one. Don't worry, he's still way in the black.

'Sides, when did you start becoming concerned about spending taxpayer money, hypocrite? Nuttin' from you when Barry blew a trillion dollars on some goofy "economic stimulus".



Freddie_Biff said:


> Or over $1.2 billion over 4 years.


----------



## SINC

Trump has been looking smaller and lighter lately. He must be on a low fact diet.


----------



## FeXL

A "rude" dog. Well, that puts me in my place.

So, tell me something. In your extensive dog urinating location & practices study, did you note that your control group, the non-rude dogs, urinated everywhere & any time, just like the rude ones? 

Jes' askin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You're like a rude dog, pissing on anything it finds just to try to mark your territory.


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> Trump has been looking smaller and lighter lately. He must be on a low fact diet.


Will be interesting to see how being POTUS will effect him physically by the end of his term.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Will be interesting to see how being POTUS will effect him physically by the end of his term.


Like the _Star Trek _energy monster, I think he's feeding on it!


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Like the _Star Trek _energy monster, I think he's feeding on it!


Could he be the only President to come out looking younger??


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Trump has been looking smaller and lighter lately. He must be on a low fact diet.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> One of the best the "fake news" has to offer!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here is some more. 

How Trump can build a U.S. autocracy: David Frum - Home | The Current with Anna Maria Tremonti | CBC Radio


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Is that Obama minion David Axelrod doing the interview? I wonder if CNN will still be on the air next year?


Yes, luckily for real news junkies, like myself, CNN will still be going strong. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Jeebus. It's like we're living in Bizarro world, with that Superman with a bad skin condition...
> 
> Gotta love those "alternative facts"
> 
> XX)


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

How presidents make their marks - CNNPolitics.com

In my opinion, John Adams had the best signature ......... very readable. Pres. Obama and Trump have the worst signatures.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump adviser cites non-existent Bowling Green 'massacre' defending ban - CNNPolitics.com

Maybe she was talking about the college basketball game where Univ. of Kentucky "trumped" Bowling Green University 109-63 ????


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Democrats fuming over Gorsuch backed him in 2006



> Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch easily won the support of top Democratic senators for a lifetime appointment to the bench ... in 2006.
> 
> What a difference a decade makes.
> 
> Several of the same senators who helped unanimously confirm Gorsuch to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in July 2006 are now railing against his nomination by President Trump to the highest court in the land.


Related:

Schumer And Leadership Team Refuse To Meet With Gorsuch



> Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and other Democratic Senate leaders refused to meet with Judge Neil Gorsuch Thursday.
> 
> The act appears to be revenge against Republicans for holding the seat of the late Justice Antonin Scalia open and not holding a hearing for Obama Supreme Court appointee Merrick Garland.


I jes' luvs me this hole the left is digging for themselves...


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Meltdown at the EPA 



> [Author Steve] Milloy, who runs the website JunkScience.com, has chronicled the scientific and bureaucratic abuse at the EPA for two decades, and he is thrilled by President Trump’s plans to finally reform the EPA. “I can think of no agency that has done more pointless harm to the U.S. economy than the EPA — all based on junk science, if not out-and-out science fraud,” Milloy told me. “I am looking forward to President Trump’s dramatically shrinking the EPA by entirely overhauling how the remaining federal EPA uses science.”


----------



## FeXL

Good, too. Now he has a list of names.

About 900 State Department officials sign protest memo: source



> About 900 U.S. State Department officials signed an internal dissent memo protesting a travel ban by U.S. President Donald Trump on refugees and travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries, a source familiar with the document said on Tuesday, in a rebellion against the new president's policies.
> 
> A senior State Department official confirmed the memorandum had been submitted to acting Secretary of State Tom Shannon through the department's "dissent channel," a process in which officials can express unhappiness over policy.


----------



## FeXL

The 70-year-old Muslim ban that no one protests



> There are the unbelievably hypocritical liberals denouncing the fate of “Iraqi Christians” who will be barred entry to the US now. Where have these liberals been - why didn't we hear them when the Islamic State exiled and raped and murdered Eastern Christians? Where were these liberals when Barack Obama discriminated against these Eastern Christians by welcoming more and more Muslim “refugees” instead of them?


Where, indeed?


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Good, too. Now he has a list of names.
> 
> About 900 State Department officials sign protest memo: source


True. Just like Sen. Joe McCarthy. It's what he will do with the names that is scary. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com

I hear that Pres. Trump has a new plan -- deliver the Great Wall of China to Mexico ............. COD ............... and have them pay for it. Brilliant.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com


Many establishment Republicans don't want to see the flood of cheap labour stemmed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Many establishment Republicans don't want to see the flood of cheap labour stemmed.


This would allow for thousands of jobs working out in the fruit and vegetable and nut farms for those Americans who want to do this labor. Sadly, few are willing to do this sort of labor, and especially not for the wages that are being paid to migrant workers. We shall see what happens then, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

"It's a paradox for the gun industry: Their pick for president, Donald Trump, is no good for gun sales." NO WAY will the NRA stop their support of Pres. Trump ..................... until he signs an executive order banning the sale of assault weapons to preschoolers. We shall see.

How President Trump is bad for the gun industry - Feb. 3, 2017


----------



## Macfury

That's right. They should pay the price required to entice Americans to do the work.



Dr.G. said:


> This would allow for thousands of jobs working out in the fruit and vegetable and nut farms for those Americans who want to do this labor. Sadly, few are willing to do this sort of labor, and especially not for the wages that are being paid to migrant workers. We shall see what happens then, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's right. They should pay the price required to entice Americans to do the work.


Fair enough. Not sure that many Americans in the rest of the country would be willing to pay the price of these fruits, vegetables and nuts, however. Still, if you want a California head of lettuce or some almonds, or some Florida oranges, especially in the winter time, then you pay the price or do without. We need another Cesar Chavez and a nation-wide UFW movement to help the American workers get their fair share of the "pie". Capitalism at it's best. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Trump has been looking smaller and lighter lately. He must be on a low fact diet.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Pay the price, I would say.

I remember Chavez used to stand along the Rio Grande with his henchmen and fight off Mexcicans crossing over.



Dr.G. said:


> Fair enough. Not sure that many Americans in the rest of the country would be willing to pay the price of these fruits, vegetables and nuts, however. Still, if you want a California head of lettuce or some almonds, or some Florida oranges, especially in the winter time, then you pay the price or do without. We need another Cesar Chavez and a nation-wide UFW movement to help the American workers get their fair share of the "pie". Capitalism at it's best. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Pay the price, I would say.
> 
> I remember Chavez used to stand along the Rio Grande with his henchmen and fight off Mexcicans crossing over.


Well, with a good minimum wage and protection of unions, I am glad that you are seeing the light, mon ami. 

His birthday, March 31st, has become Cesar Chavez Day, a state holiday in California, Colorado, and Texas.


----------



## Dr.G.

Here we go again. tptptptp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-wall-street-reform/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

"The move addressed another one of Trump’s campaign promises: dismantling 2010’s financial overhaul legislation, known as Dodd-Frank. The legislation forced banks to take various steps to prevent another financial crisis, including holding more capital and taking yearly “stress tests” to prove they could withstand economic turbulence. "


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-u-s-through-boston/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

The immigrants are coming ............... the immigrants are coming .................... "One if by land, two if by sea." To arms ............ to arms ........


----------



## Dr.G.

Globe editorial: How to trump Trump - The Globe and Mail

As Mao Zedong and General Douglas MacArthur said .... "So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be put at risk even in a hundred battles" ...... "I shall return" and "I have returned".


----------



## Dr.G.

"Trump's high disapproval most clearly differentiates his ratings from those of his predecessors. While Ronald Reagan's first approval rating measure of 51% from Gallup in 1981 was not that far above Trump's 44% now, Reagan's disapproval number was far lower than Trump's (13% to 53%). And George W. Bush, the last president to be elected without capturing the popular vote, held a far more positive 57% overall approval rating in February of his first year in office, with just 25% disapproving."

First Trump approval rating lags behind past presidents - CNNPolitics.com


Well, look who Pres. Trump is being compared to (i.e., Pres. Obama, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Carter, Reagan, Nixon, Bush, Clinton and Bush). Compare him to the likes of Harding, Hoover, Filmore or Andrew Johnson. Then he would zoom to the top of the list.


----------



## Macfury

Rasmussen Reports Poll: Trump's Approval Rating on the Rise


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Capitalism at it's best.


Capitalism at it's best has no room for social programs like unions, my friend.


----------



## FeXL

Guess it's time to look at those tax loopholes & tax avoidance strategies.

Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft draft a joint letter opposing Trump’s travel ban



> Alphabet, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber and Stripe, along with a consumer packaged goods company and others, have been working together on a letter opposing U.S. President Trump’s travel ban, according to sources.
> 
> Tech companies are leading the effort, but are working to involve other industries, the sources say, such as media companies, manufacturing giants and consumer product outfits. The letter will be the first major push from big U.S. businesses to try to support immigration in the wake of a recent travel restriction order by Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Capitalism at it's best has no room for social programs like unions, my friend.


Well, without some unions there would be no capitalism. Don't tell me that you are trying to promote communism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Guess it's time to look at those tax loopholes & tax avoidance strategies.
> 
> Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft draft a joint letter opposing Trump’s travel ban


Can't have travel restrictions end the replacement of American workers with cheaper temporary labour now can we?


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Well, without some unions there would be no capitalism.


What's your reasoning on this claim?


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> What's your reasoning on this claim?


Beej, economic growth under capitalism leads to democracy, and does not function well under authoritarian regimes. Thus, unions maintain a balance so that stability is crucial, with fair competition and consideration of the workers as potential consumers. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Beej, economic growth under capitalism leads to democracy, and does not function well under authoritarian regimes. Thus, unions maintain a balance so that stability is crucial, with fair competition and consideration of the workers as potential consumers. Paix, mon ami.


Thank you for the response. I agree that something is required for the politics to work, beyond a purist libertarian concept, but am not sure that specific mechanism is the only option. It is an option, and may be both unnecessary and insufficient. To be clear, I'm talking about closed shop, not the right to organize. Two different things.


----------



## Macfury

I've never been anti-union, but I am against special rights granted by government to those unions. I don't support "anti-scab" legislation, for example. If withdrawing your labour isn't much of an inconvenience to your employer, and anyone coming in off the street can satisfactorily replace you, then you don't deserve more money.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've never been anti-union, but I am against special rights granted by government to those unions. I don't support "anti-scab" legislation, for example. If withdrawing your labour isn't much of an inconvenience to your employer, and anyone coming in off the street can satisfactorily replace you, then you don't deserve more money.



Odd that I actually agree with you on that point.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Well, without some unions there would be no capitalism.


Capitalism can exist just fine without unions.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Capitalism can exist just fine without unions.


True, but it works even better with the balance of unions. Solidarity forever. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> Thank you for the response. I agree that something is required for the politics to work, beyond a purist libertarian concept, but am not sure that specific mechanism is the only option. It is an option, and may be both unnecessary and insufficient. To be clear, I'm talking about closed shop, not the right to organize. Two different things.


I see your point, Beej. I am not an advocate of closed shops. However, back in the late 1800s and into the 20th century, unions have fought for fairness in the workplace. I am not in favor of Big Unions, just as I am not in favor of Big Business. There needs to be a balance. Unions fighting for an end to child labor, a reasonable work day/week and a living wage is the sort of unions I support. Unions demanding that six people work on a project that requires only one or two people is not what I support. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I've never been anti-union, but I am against special rights granted by government to those unions. I don't support "anti-scab" legislation, for example. If withdrawing your labour isn't much of an inconvenience to your employer, and anyone coming in off the street can satisfactorily replace you, then you don't deserve more money.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Odd that I actually agree with you on that point.




Actually, this is a valid point.


----------



## SINC

The one thing about unions that I dislike is compulsory membership. The freedom of choice should triumph. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> The one thing about unions that I dislike is compulsory membership. The freedom of choice should triumph. Every. Single. Time.


True. The freedom to organize should also be protected, so that if I join a legal union I should not be fired. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> True. The freedom to organize should also be protected, so that if I join a legal union I should not be fired. Paix, mon ami.


Yep, BUT if I choose not to join, I should not be fired, nor ostracized by fellow workers who did join union ranks either.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Yep, BUT if I choose not to join, I should not be fired, nor ostracized by fellow workers who did join union ranks either.


True. This is why I hated to be forced to join a union as a condition of employment, just as my grandfather hated being fired for joining a union. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The one thing about unions that I dislike is compulsory membership. The freedom of choice should triumph. Every. Single. Time.



When one decides to take a job that requires union membership, one does have a choice. Every. Single. Time. Accept the job or don't. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> When one decides to take a job that requires union membership, one does have a choice. Every. Single. Time. Accept the job or don't.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

By what authority is union membership applied to new workers?



Freddie_Biff said:


> When one decides to take a job that requires union membership, one does have a choice. Every. Single. Time. Accept the job or don't.


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump not in Situation Room for 'botched' Yemen raid that killed up to 30 civilians and one US Navy SEAL*

...when Donald Trump ordered his first military operation as US President, a Navy Seal strike on a suspected Al-Qaeda camp in Yemen’s Bayda province that resulted in the deaths of one member of the US special forces team and up to 30 Yemeni civilians, among them an eight-year-old girl, that is not quite how things played out.

** * **​
Mr Trump ordered the operation in the early hours of Sunday morning without sufficient intelligence, ground support or back-up, it has emerged that the President was not in the Situation Room at all.

“The President was here in the residence. He was kept in touch with his national security staff,” White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters.

“Secretary Mattis and others kept him updated on both the raid and the death of Chief Owens as well as the four other individuals that were injured. So he was kept apprised of the situation.”

** * **​
“Usually, a President goes down to the Situation Room and is presented with what they call a full package for the attack. There’s a legal assessment of the legal authorities under which they’re doing these,” David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent of The New York Times, told PBS. 

“There’s a risk assessment to the commandos who would be doing it. There is a risk assessment of what could happen to civilians who are in the area.”

He added: “It looks like President Trump got briefed on it, by and large, at a dinner, not in the Situation Room, not with legal advisers around.”​
(Independent UK)


----------



## Macfury

Benghazi didn't even cross your radar, CM--now you're suddenly het up?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...me-trump-for-the-failed-raid-in-yemen/515496/



> *Don't Politicize the Failed Yemen Raid
> 
> America cannot punish its elected officials for allowing its military, diplomatic corps, and intelligence services to take risks necessary to pursue its interests.*
> 
> This raid, according to The New York Times, was approved by and recommended to the president by his secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. For the recommendation to have gone forward to the president, the senior leadership of the Department of Defense would have signed off on this operation. And for that to have happened, special operations and regional U.S. commanders would have had to have blessed the planning that went into the operation itself.
> 
> _The left cannot on the one hand claim Donald Trump is ignorant of military and security affairs, and then on the other hand expect him to second-guess the professional recommendations of his uniformed and civilian military leadership._
> 
> Some Obama-era counterterrorism and NSC officials are pointing to what happened as evidence that the very deliberate interagency process the Obama administration used to approve these operations has been justified.
> 
> I am inclined to disagree. My experience as a senior Department of Defense official in the last two years of the Obama administration leads me to the conclusion that the way we did things—with the military required to provide a “CONOPS,” or concept of operations, to be picked over by deputy cabinet secretaries and usually the secretaries themselves prior to being forwarded to the president for approval—was slow and ponderous in a way that created real opportunity costs and denied subordinate commanders the flexibility to exploit opportunities they saw on the battlefield. Yes, it eliminated a lot of physical and political risk, but in doing so it negated one of the primary advantages the U.S. military enjoys, which is a highly trained and capable officer corps in the field that can exercise independent judgment.
> 
> At one point toward the end of the Obama administration, cabinet secretaries—cabinet secretaries!—were literally debating whether or not it made sense to move three helicopters within Iraq and Syria. That decision should have been left to the very capable, very experienced commander on the ground, U.S. Army Lieutenant General Steve Townsend.
> 
> America cannot punish its elected officials for allowing its military to take risks necessary to pursue its interests.
> 
> ...........
> America cannot punish its elected officials for allowing its military, diplomatic corps, and intelligence services to take risks necessary to pursue its interests. It’s true the president is ultimately responsible for everything his or her administration does and fails to do, but it’s not helpful for the default reaction when something goes wrong to be immediately elevating the blame to the office of the president.
> 
> I know and in many cases was trained by many of the men and women who made the decision to carry out the raid in Yemen. I spent a short period of my life leading U.S. Army Rangers and thus have some experience planning and executing time sensitive special operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan—often for the men and women who still command in our military. (Steve Townsend, who I mentioned earlier and who very likely did not play a role in the Yemen raid, was my very first commander in the Army.) As a result of that experience, though, I know how good the men and women are who work at the tactical and operational levels of our military, our foreign service, and our intelligence services.
> *
> Americans have to allow those men and women to be aggressive, to take risks, and to, on occasion, fall short. And we cannot immediately blame the president if and when they do.*


----------



## Dr.G.

Howard Stern: Trump wants to be loved, presidency will be 'detrimental' to his mental health - Feb. 2, 2017

A rather strange assertion.   

"I personally wish that he had never run, I told him that, because I actually think this is something that is gonna be detrimental to his mental health too, because, he wants to be liked, he wants to be loved," Stern said. "He wants people to cheer for him."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> By what authority is union membership applied to new workers?



By the principle that some jobs require union membership. Safeway, for example. Nobody says you have to work there, but if you're hired, you need to be a part of the union.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Howard Stern: Trump wants to be loved, presidency will be 'detrimental' to his mental health - Feb. 2, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> A rather strange assertion.
> 
> 
> 
> "I personally wish that he had never run, I told him that, because I actually think this is something that is gonna be detrimental to his mental health too, because, he wants to be liked, he wants to be loved," Stern said. "He wants people to cheer for him."



Stern actually likes Trump, but he doesn't think Trump should be President. He's not cut out for that kind of job.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump not in Situation Room for 'botched' Yemen raid that killed up to 30 civilians and one US Navy SEAL*
> 
> 
> 
> ...when Donald Trump ordered his first military operation as US President, a Navy Seal strike on a suspected Al-Qaeda camp in Yemen’s Bayda province that resulted in the deaths of one member of the US special forces team and up to 30 Yemeni civilians, among them an eight-year-old girl, that is not quite how things played out.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> Mr Trump ordered the operation in the early hours of Sunday morning without sufficient intelligence, ground support or back-up, it has emerged that the President was not in the Situation Room at all.
> 
> 
> 
> “The President was here in the residence. He was kept in touch with his national security staff,” White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters.
> 
> 
> 
> “Secretary Mattis and others kept him updated on both the raid and the death of Chief Owens as well as the four other individuals that were injured. So he was kept apprised of the situation.”
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> “Usually, a President goes down to the Situation Room and is presented with what they call a full package for the attack. There’s a legal assessment of the legal authorities under which they’re doing these,” David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent of The New York Times, told PBS.
> 
> 
> 
> “There’s a risk assessment to the commandos who would be doing it. There is a risk assessment of what could happen to civilians who are in the area.”
> 
> 
> 
> He added: “It looks like President Trump got briefed on it, by and large, at a dinner, not in the Situation Room, not with legal advisers around.”​
> 
> 
> (Independent UK)



Hitler also allegedly never visited any of the death camps he had set up. I don't think the Donald can actually quite stomach the Executive Orders he issues. Either that or he is so detached from it he doesn't really care what happens.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Stern actually likes Trump, but he doesn't think Trump should be President. He's not cut out for that kind of job.


I know that they have been friends for years. Still, it was a strange comment to make.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I know that they have been friends for years. Still, it was a strange comment to make.



I was listening to an interview with Stern yesterday. I think he's a lot wiser than he often gets credit for.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> By the principle that some jobs require union membership. Safeway, for example. Nobody says you have to work there, but if you're hired, you need to be a part of the union.


Who requires it and by what authority? Who should stop the employer from hiring bagboys and vegetable sprayers at market price if the rest of the staff were unionized?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I was listening to an interview with Stern yesterday. I think he's a lot wiser than he often gets credit for.


I think most people realize he's a smart guy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who requires it and by what authority? Who should stop the employer from hiring bagboys and vegetable sprayers at market price if the rest of the staff were unionized?



Uh.....the employer requires it. The employer has a collective agreement with the employees' union. Pretty common in both public and private workspaces. Despite all your years on the planet, you really haven't been around much have you.


----------



## Macfury

I've been around and I've rarely seen cases where the employer really _wants_ to hire union staff. They've usually been forced into it by government-backed unions. Who would become less competitive and lower productivity by choice?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh.....the employer requires it. The employer has a collective agreement with the employees' union. Pretty common in both public and private workspaces. Despite all your years on the planet, you really haven't been around much have you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've been around and I've rarely seen cases where the employer really _wants_ to hire union staff. They've usually been forced into it by government-backed unions. Who would become less competitive and lower productivity by choice?



It doesn't really matter whether they want to. It's a contract, a collective agreement. That's how it works. You're arguing from a philosophical standpoint, as though one side has all the power. Real life usually doesn't work that way. People reach compromises.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> People reach compromises.


Yep, 'cept unions, they demand them under threat of strike.


----------



## SINC

Der Spiegel's cover got it right.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Yep, 'cept unions, they demand them under threat of strike.



Don't forget lockouts. It goes both ways. You got something against compromise?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Der Spiegel's cover got it right.



Ouch. That's brutal honesty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't forget lockouts. It goes both ways. You got something against compromise?


Hmmm, last I knew demands, strikes nor lockouts were not defined as compromise.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Hmmm, last I knew demands, strikes nor lockouts were not defined as compromise.



True. They're usually the save face tactic both sides take before they negotiate to reach a compromise. Or the step they take after months of negotiation just aren't going anywhere, or one side issues an ultimatum.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> It doesn't really matter whether they want to. It's a contract, a collective agreement. That's how it works. You're arguing from a philosophical standpoint, as though one side has all the power. Real life usually doesn't work that way. People reach compromises.


Regardless, the employer has the right to hire non-union or fire every employee if he wants to get rid of the union employees.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Regardless, the employer has the right to hire non-union or fire every employee if he wants to get rid of the union employees.



Not legally, no. He can hire replacement workers, certainly, if they strike. But there is a due process that must be followed while they are working. If they walk off the job, then of course, yes, they risk not coming back. That's what happened at Gainers back in the 80's. You take a big gamble when you strike, hoping your services are important enough that you can't be replaced. Teacher strikes can be effective since there is no hidden supply of teachers to walk in and take over. You have to be certified. But if the strike goes on too long or is perceived as greedy, you can lose public support over time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Best response I've read today. By Jim Wright. 












> That moment as President when you discover that part about Checks and Balances most of us learned in 8th Grade.
> 
> Leaving aside the part where the President of the United States, the actual goddamned PRESIDENT, is sitting on the ****ter at 5 in the morning petulantly complaining to the internet about the New York Times and people being mean to him and the fact that the job is WAY more complicated than he imagined (so tough in fact that he needed a vacation less than two weeks into it), leaving all that aside, there's this:
> 
> "The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!"
> 
> "The opinion of..."
> 
> That opinion is a legal decision in accordance with the Constitution. That's how our government is supposed to work.
> 
> "...of this so-called judge..."
> 
> There's nothing so-called about it. James Robart is a US District Judge, a conservative appointed by George W. Bush in accordance with the Constitution and approved by the Senate in a vote of 99 to 0. Now either Trump believes in the US Constitution and the US process of government or he doesn't. It's just that goddamned simple. Federal Judges ruled against President Obama any number of times (it happens to all presidents), you didn't see Barack on the ****ter at 5AM tweeting "IT'S SO UNFAIR! UNFAIR!" like a ****ing child.
> 
> But here's the part which really matters:
> 
> "...which essentially takes law enforcement away from our country..."
> 
> What?
> 
> WHAT?
> 
> HOW does this judgement take law enforcement away from our country?
> 
> How? Be specific and show your work.
> 
> The press should grab onto this line, this one right here "essentially takes law enforcement away from our country," and hold on like a pitbull. FORCE the President to answer that question. HOW? Prove it. Spell it out. Either prove your statement or admit to the world that you're just having a tantrum because you didn't get your way.
> 
> As conservatives were so very fond of pointing out over and over and over and over and over again for the last 8 years, this ain't a dictatorship. The President can't just wave his tiny orange hand and the rest of us have to jump around like trained dogs.
> 
> But that's what Trump actually thinks. And he thinks that because nobody has EVER told him no -- not even when he jammed his hand into their crotch. He's a rich spoiled child who has NEVER been told no. Every statement he makes shows his utter ignorance of how things work in the real world -- something he never had to learn when sheltered inside his golden palace surrounded by toadies and yesmen and fawning servants.
> 
> This is why it's important to listen to this guy and not just ignore his social media rantings.
> 
> And the press needs to get off their collective asses and start holding this asshole's delicate little feet to the fire.


----------



## Macfury

Those ARE the checks and balances... and it WILL be overturned.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Those ARE the checks and balances... and it WILL be overturned.



Nope. Trump is really over-reaching and slandering federal justices while he's at it. He's worse than Andrew Jackson.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. Trump is really over-reaching and slandering federal justices while he's at it. He's worse than Andrew Jackson.


Are you so sure? I'll lay a $20 on it.


----------



## FeXL

And here it goes. Again. So, what's the thrust here? The 24 hour detente was over & you just couldn't help yourself? Had an itch that needed scratched?

Fukc you, Freddie. And your hat & the horse you rode in on.

It wasn't enough to merely make your point. It wasn't enough to just make a statement & quietly move on.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh.....the employer requires it. The employer has a collective agreement with the employees' union. Pretty common in both public and private workspaces.


You had to be a prick about it & add this, just to get your digs in. Tell me what part of this second quote furthers the conversation in any way, shape or form.

And you wonder why people crawl down your throat.

Now, cry victim or come up with some excuse the justify the rudeness or post some stupid meme in defence of your idiocy & square the circle...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Despite all your years on the planet, you really haven't been around much have you.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I was listening to an interview with Stern yesterday. I think he's a lot wiser than he often gets credit for.


He might be "wiser", but I always found him off the wall in some of his views.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You had to be a prick about it & add this, just to get your digs in. Tell me what part of this second quote furthers the conversation in any way, shape or form.


Freddie acts like a dick 99% of the time and then demands respect in the brief interludes. I try to ignore it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> And here it goes. Again. So, what's the thrust here? The 24 hour detente was over & you just couldn't help yourself? Had an itch that needed scratched?
> 
> 
> 
> Fukc you, Freddie. And your hat & the horse you rode in on.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't enough to merely make your point. It wasn't enough to just make a statement & quietly move on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had to be a prick about it & add this, just to get your digs in. Tell me what part of this second quote furthers the conversation in any way, shape or form.
> 
> 
> 
> And you wonder why people crawl down your throat.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, cry victim or come up with some excuse the justify the rudeness or post some stupid meme in defence of your idiocy & square the circle...



What the fukc are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to you. And what detente? I never said I wanted to be friends with you. I would just like you stop trolling so much. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> He might be "wiser", but I always found him off the wall in some of his views.



Certainly. He's the shock jock. But he's also smart, far smarter than Trump. That's why he's worried that Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job. And he's right; Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie acts like a dick 99% of the time and then demands respect in the brief interludes. I try to ignore it.



I only give as good as I get. I'm sure you know that. I respect you most of the time because even though I disagree with you, I think there's a warm heart at your core. You sent me the link to Juan of the Dead—that was considerate. However, I'm not willing to give the same benefit of the doubt to FeXL because he's never been anything but a prick to me. I gave up on trying with him long ago. Gaining his respect means nothing to me. And his trollish behaviour is really quite sad. Sorry, but he's just not worth the effort. You I still have hope for. I hope that doesn't change.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Certainly. He's the shock jock. But he's also smart, far smarter than Trump. That's why he's worried that Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job. And he's right; Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job.


Agreed that Pres. Trump is totally unqualified to be president. Still, for the next four years he is the president ............... unless the Republicans stop their support for him and pick an issue upon which to impeach him. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Supreme Court is currently composed of eight members and capable of a 4-4 split. That's where it gets strange re the ban upon Pres. Trump's executive order. When cases tie at the Supreme Court, then the appellate court's decision stands.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Freddie acts like a dick 99% of the time and then demands respect in the brief interludes. I try to ignore it.


He's the only guy on these boards pi$$ing & moaning about the lack of mods here but then he's the first one to take advantage of their absence.


----------



## FeXL

Don't bother trying, Freddie. You conduct yourself on these boards like an asshole & I'm going to treat you like one. You've earned every ounce of it. In spades...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I gave up on trying with him long ago.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Certainly. He's the shock jock. But he's also smart, far smarter than Trump. That's why he's worried that Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job. And he's right; Trump doesn't have what it takes to do this job.


I listen to Stern regularly and don't think he ever said Trump was not qualified. He said he could not understand why Trump would want the pressure of the position, the scrutiny and everything that goes with being President when Trump had an amazing life with anything anyone could dream off.


----------



## FeXL

You don't have to be talking directly to me to be offensive.

The detente that Screature suggested yesterday.

As far as being friends with you, I'd rather stick needles into my eyeballs. Doesn't mean you can't be civil.

Want change? It starts with you. Quit posting bull$h!t & quit acting like an ass.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I wasn't even talking to you. And what detente? I never said I wanted to be friends with you. I would just like you stop trolling so much.


----------



## Macfury

Exactly--thanks for posting that.



wonderings said:


> I listen to Stern regularly and don't think he ever said Trump was not qualified. He said he could not understand why Trump would want the pressure of the position, the scrutiny and everything that goes with being President when Trump had an amazing life with anything anyone could dream off.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Quit posting bull$h!t & quit acting like an ass.


The two terms I shall never equate are "FeXL" and "civility". 

As for the latter part of your statement...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Supreme Court is currently composed of eight members and capable of a 4-4 split. That's where it gets strange re the ban upon Pres. Trump's executive order. When cases tie at the Supreme Court, then the appellate court's decision stands.


It would only take another federal judge to reimpose the ban in the meantime. Once Gorsuch takes over, things will be different. How's Ginsburg feeling these days, I wonder?


----------



## Macfury

They look grey.



CubaMark said:


> The two terms I shall never equate are "FeXL" and "civility".
> 
> As for the latter part of your statement...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Don't bother trying, Freddie. You conduct yourself on these boards like an asshole & I'm going to treat you like one. You've earned every ounce of it. In spades...



Well, I certainly get under your skin, so that's something to be proud of. Paix, amigo.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I listen to Stern regularly and don't think he ever said Trump was not qualified. He said he could not understand why Trump would want the pressure of the position, the scrutiny and everything that goes with being President when Trump had an amazing life with anything anyone could dream off.



That's an interesting point. Perhaps you are right. But whenever I see him, he seems to have everything except that one thing that forever eludes him:genuine happiness.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You don't have to be talking directly to me to be offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> The detente that Screature suggested yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as being friends with you, I'd rather stick needles into my eyeballs. Doesn't mean you can't be civil.
> 
> 
> 
> Want change? It starts with you. Quit posting bull$h!t & quit acting like an ass.



Jack Nicholson, Terms of Endearment. Yeah, I like that movie too. And on the "it starts with you," you're absolutely right. La pas, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Here's one for all my right and left wing friends. May we enjoy this stupidity together while it lasts. Really looking forward to Alec Baldwin on SNL tonight.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

http://www.chaser.com.au/general-ne...on-pledge-to-randomly-shoot-person-on-street/

(Sometimes fake news is the best news )


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Here's one for all my right and left wing friends. May we enjoy this stupidity together while it lasts. Really looking forward to Alec Baldwin on SNL tonight.


I guess you missed that one when I posted it during the election campaign?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I guess you missed that one when I posted it during the election campaign?



Sorry, Don, if I repeated your post. I definitely do not read everything in these forums. Who has the time? It's kind of funny in any event.


----------



## SINC

No harm done Frank, was just sayin'.


----------



## Dr.G.

Just read about this in the Washington Post. Someone is not going to be happy this morning. We shall see.

" Federal appeals court rejects request for immediate reinstatement of Trump's travel ban -- 

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit has denied the Justice Department's request to immediately restore President Donald Trump's executive order banning refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States. The court instead asked both the state of Washington and the Trump administration early Sunday to file more arguments by Monday afternoon. The Trump administration had appealed a federal judge's ruling that temporarily halted the executive order."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Just read about this in the Washington Post. Someone is not going to be happy this morning. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> " Federal appeals court rejects request for immediate reinstatement of Trump's travel ban --
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit has denied the Justice Department's request to immediately restore President Donald Trump's executive order banning refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States. The court instead asked both the state of Washington and the Trump administration early Sunday to file more arguments by Monday afternoon. The Trump administration had appealed a federal judge's ruling that temporarily halted the executive order."



Makes sense, and I suspect the decision will stay that way. After 9/11, when there was a clear and present danger, it made sense to halt all air traffic (except for the Bin Laden family to return home). This executive order came totally out of the blue with no provocation. Basically, in a nutshell, it is an abuse of Presidential powers. With great power comes great responsibility.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Makes sense, and I suspect the decision will stay that way. After 9/11, when there was a clear and present danger, it made sense to halt all air traffic (except for the Bin Laden family to return home). This executive order came totally out of the blue with no provocation. Basically, in a nutshell, it is an abuse of Presidential powers. With great power comes great responsibility.


Valid points, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump: Mexicans Swarming Across Border, Enrolling in Law School, and Becoming Biased Judges - The New Yorker

Now the wall is starting to make sense.


----------



## SINC

*“I left a Kenyan passport in your desk drawer just to mess with him.”

“No, Joe!”

“Oh, and I left a prayer mat in your bedroom. He’s gonna lose it!”

“Dammit, Joe.”*


----------



## Macfury

Joe was never smart enough to pull a gag that good!


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> *“I left a Kenyan passport in your desk drawer just to mess with him.”
> 
> “No, Joe!”
> 
> “Oh, and I left a prayer mat in your bedroom. He’s gonna lose it!”
> 
> “Dammit, Joe.”*


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

You've earned every bit of scorn I heap upon you & then some, hypocrite.



CubaMark said:


> The two terms I shall never equate are "FeXL" and "civility".


----------



## CubaMark

I've only seen two bits from last night's Saturday Night Live so far... and they were **B*R*I*L*L*I*A*N*T**:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLI4B07QX1s[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI[/ame]

:clap:

Has Trump tweeted about it yet? OMG... _Zimbabwe_....

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> *“I left a Kenyan passport in your desk drawer just to mess with him.”
> 
> 
> 
> “No, Joe!”
> 
> 
> 
> “Oh, and I left a prayer mat in your bedroom. He’s gonna lose it!”
> 
> 
> 
> “Dammit, Joe.”*



I post this as a meme, I get slammed. You post it as text with a picture, you're a hero!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I've only seen two bits from last night's Saturday Night Live so far... and they were **B*R*I*L*L*I*A*N*T**:
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLI4B07QX1s[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> Has Trump tweeted about it yet? OMG... _Zimbabwe_....
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:




They nail it. Every. Time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You've earned every bit of scorn I heap upon you & then some, hypocrite.



Hey congrats, Mark! Now at least there's some company in buddy's "Corner of Deplorables".


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey congrats, Mark! Now at least there's some company in buddy's "Corner of Deplorables".


We should form a club.


----------



## Macfury

The Goonies?



CubaMark said:


> We should form a club.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I post this as a meme, I get slammed. You post it as text with a picture, you're a hero!


If the meme is funny, it gets a pass.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I've only seen two bits from last night's Saturday Night Live so far... and they were **B*R*I*L*L*I*A*N*T**:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLI4B07QX1s
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI
> 
> :clap:
> 
> Has Trump tweeted about it yet? OMG... _Zimbabwe_....
> 
> :lmao:


Still laughing at the Sean Spicer bit. I am finding the Alex Baldwin Trump a bit tiring at times.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> We should form a club.



We could call it the Anti-Alt-Right Club and see how many people it pisses off. I can think of three or four right off the bat.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> We could call it the Anti-Alt-Right Club and see how many people it pisses off. I can think of three or four right off the bat.


I think it's a great name. I'd order some ball caps and jerseys right now if I were you.


----------



## FeXL

A "deplorable" is a respectable person.

You two ain't anywhere near "deplorable" territory...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey congrats, Mark! Now at least there's some company in buddy's "Corner of Deplorables".


----------



## FeXL

Calling people on these boards alt-right pisses off no one. We all laugh our butts off 'cause it shows just how little you know not only about the politics on these boards but how little you know about the meaning of the word.

Use at will... :clap:



Freddie_Biff said:


> We could call it the Anti-Alt-Right Club and see how many people it pisses off. I can think of three or four right off the bat.


----------



## FeXL

I vote woodshed.

Sorry Music Industry: What Goes Around Comes Around in a Trump Presidency



> The big boys of music -- the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) and Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI) -- have been spending millions to keep their power and their billions. They represent what can be called nothing other than “Big Music”. Big Music has been seeking to maintain control of their dynasty by controlling the politicians in power.


More:



> In fact, just days before the election, Big Music was still calling Trump a racist and a bigot while hugging Hillary and writing her checks. Now, in the ultimate display of hypocrisy and realization of the trouble they are in, Big Music has come begging for Trump’s love.
> 
> They’ve written an open letter to President Trump and come calling on bended knee to kiss the Trump ring. “Congratulations on your election, we look forward to working with you and your Administration on behalf of American music,” they say.
> 
> *Whether or not Trump takes them to the woodshed or brings them into the fold remains to be seen. *


Yep, my bold.

Wonder what cold crow tastes like...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I'm tired of the Statue of Liberty used as a symbol of unfettered immigration.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Luckily, we have some checks upon a president.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm tired of the Statue of Liberty used as a symbol of unfettered immigration.


Careful, you are starting going against the Libertarian Party's view on immigration. Of course, this is the US view. https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/

However, the Canadian Libertarian Party's view is similar.


"Immigration:

Immigration is an essential aspect of a growing and prosperous country. As such, the Libertarian Party of Canada advocates for a welcoming immigration policy.

More specifically, the Libertarian Party of Canada would:
•Significantly decrease the bureaucratic burden for refugees and asylum seekers
•Eliminate the point system for immigration and replace it with a background check for violent or fraudulent criminal activity
•Eliminate the TFW program and replace it with a streamlined work visa program, and residency roll out. Granting foreign workers legal residency ensures that the Canadian economy continues to grow, without subjecting them to poor working conditions.
•Create sponsorship guidelines whereby organizations and individuals can sponsor immigrants if they are willing to financially support them."

I trust that you still advocate non-interventionism and a belief in a form of laissez-faire capitalism? 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Most libertarians support immigration only in the context of first dismantling social programs.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Most libertarians support immigration only in the context of first dismantling social programs.


Not sure I follow, mon ami. I know that both the US and Canadian Libertarian Party platforms call for this sort of "disestablishment of social programs" that help people, but what is the connection with bringing in more immigrants, who might initially need the support of these various programs?


----------



## Dr.G.

Ann Patchett: President Obama Shows His Love | Time.com

A fine article. This is one reason why I feel he shall be missed by many. I know that this might open up the gates to those opposed to Pres. Obama, but it does not change the reality that he was truly a president who shared his compassion with millions upon millions of Americans. This is one American who shall miss him in the office of the presidency. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm tired of the Statue of Liberty used as a symbol of unfettered immigration.



You're going to love the cover of Der Spiegel in that case.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Most libertarians support immigration only in the context of first dismantling social programs.



That doesn't seem to appear on the Libertarian platform Marc just provided.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> That doesn't seem to appear on the Libertarian platform Marc just provided.


That's because he provided only a thin slice of platform in isolation, perverting the overall stance of the LPUSA:



> *1. End Welfare*
> 
> None of the proposals currently being advanced by either conservatives or liberals is likely to fix the fundamental problems with our welfare system. Current proposals for welfare reform, including block grants, job training, and “workfare” represent mere tinkering with a failed system.
> 
> It is time to recognize that welfare cannot be reformed: it should be ended.
> 
> We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap.


https://www.lp.org/issues/poverty-and-welfare/


----------



## Dr.G.

"We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap." When they say "... and all the rest", what might be included in this "rest"? Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap." When they say "... and all the rest", what might be included in this "rest"? Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Paix, mon ami.



Vagueness has its usefulness.


----------



## Beej

*Open Borders Commentary*

Krugman wrote a couple helpful posts on the topic:
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/notes-on-immigration/

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/21/...dule=Search&mabReward=relbias:r,{"2":"RI:15"}

My take is that open borders is a beyond bizarre concept for a modern liberal democracy to adopt. The concept has some physical distance in North America, which clouds thinking. 

Have a controlled immigration system designed as any other public policy and, as we have found, that ends up being a mutually beneficial system.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Vagueness has its usefulness.


Unless you are a person dependent upon these social safety nets. It is easy to say "eliminate food stamps" if you have never experienced true hunger. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Unless you are a person dependent upon these social safety nets. It is easy to say "eliminate food stamps" if you have never experienced true hunger. Paix, mon ami.




Yeah, I meant usefulness for the one making the policy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I meant usefulness for the one making the policy.


Oh, I see your point now. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-bowl-ad-but-you-can-still-see-the-original/

Journey 84 | 84 Lumber Super Bowl Commercial

A very powerful ad. Watch all of the uncut version.


----------



## Macfury

All. There is no vagueness.

When all social programs have been terminated, some libertarians favour open borders. Some do not.



Dr.G. said:


> "We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap." When they say "... and all the rest", what might be included in this "rest"? Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Yep. Open borders is a modern prog aberration.



Beej said:


> Krugman wrote a couple helpful posts on the topic:
> https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/notes-on-immigration/
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/21/...dule=Search&mabReward=relbias:r,{"2":"RI:15"}
> 
> My take is that open borders is a beyond bizarre concept for a modern liberal democracy to adopt. The concept has some physical distance in North America, which clouds thinking.
> 
> Have a controlled immigration system designed as any other public policy and, as we have found, that ends up being a mutually beneficial system.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> All. There is no vagueness.
> 
> When all social programs have been terminated, some libertarians favour open borders. Some do not.


All social programs??? Millions upon millions of Americans are dependent upon Social Security as their only source of income that they paid into their entire working lives. While my mother was alive, I kept asking her how she was surviving on just her Soc. Sec., and could I send her some money. She would not accept any help from me.

While I respect your right to hold this view, I truly think that you would change your mind if you spent a month with my mom and watched how she lived from Soc. Sec. check to Soc. Sec. check. I would never have let her starve or be evicted from her NYC apartment, but if I were not around I shudder to think of what would have become of her with no social safety net. This is just one person. Multiply this by millions. What becomes of all of these people? These are not the so-call "welfare bums", but Americans who worked their entire lives, paid their taxes every year, many of whom fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc, and now, after paying into Soc. Sec. for their entire working lives, are told by a Libertarian government -- "Sorry. Good luck. You are all on your own." 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I don't really think so. They are dependent on social programs because the government sucks them dry of savings for all of their lives leading up to that point. If they simply saved all of their Social Security money they would be better off than they are under a government program.

The question was about immigration, however. Given no social programs, immigration would taper off rapidly.



Dr.G. said:


> All social programs??? Millions upon millions of Americans are dependent upon Social Security as their only source of income that they paid into their entire working lives. While my mother was alive, I kept asking her how she was surviving on just her Soc. Sec., and could I send her some money. She would not accept any help from me.
> 
> While I respect your right to hold this view, I truly think that you would change your mind if you spent a month with my mom and watched how she lived from Soc. Sec. check to Soc. Sec. check. I would never have let her starve or be evicted from her NYC apartment, but if I were not around I shudder to think of what would have become of her with no social safety net. This is just one person. Multiply this by millions. What becomes of all of these people? These are not the so-call "welfare bums", but Americans who worked their entire lives, paid their taxes every year, many of whom fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc, and now, after paying into Soc. Sec. for their entire working lives, are told by a Libertarian government -- "Sorry. Good luck. You are all on your own."
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't really think so. They are dependent on social programs because the government sucks them dry of savings for all of their lives leading up to that point. If they simply saved all of their Social Security money they would be better off than they are under a government program.
> 
> 
> 
> The question was about immigration, however. Given no social programs, immigration would taper off rapidly.



Boy, somebody's been drinking the Koolaid. I mean....Flavor Aid. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't really think so. They are dependent on social programs because the government sucks them dry of savings for all of their lives leading up to that point. If they simply saved all of their Social Security money they would be better off than they are under a government program.
> 
> The question was about immigration, however. Given no social programs, immigration would taper off rapidly.


Well, tell that to the folks who worked their entire lives and were not able to save or invest their Social Security deductions (back when I started to work at the age of 16, I thought how great it would be to invest in a company called IBM -- obviously, even if I were old enough to open up an account with Merrill Lynch, I did not have enough money to invest). 

Good thing you are not a Vulcan (i.e., "The needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few"), or are not an American living in the US at your current age -- unless you have a stash of money saved up. I now see why you were never a supporter of Bernie Sanders. 

I still say that you would be singing a different tune if you lived with my mom when she was still alive in NYC. She might have even gotten you to praise FDR, who she loved. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy, somebody's been drinking the Koolaid. I mean....Flavor Aid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, in all fairness, Macfury is allowed to hold his own opinions, just as you and I are able to hold our opinions. If they differ, so be it. 

As I said, I would not have allowed my mother to have starved or be evicted from her apartment. Still, if I were not there, without Social Security, which my mother paid into for 45 years, she would have been destitute.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> As I said, I would not have allowed my mother to have starved or be evicted from her apartment. Still, if I were not there, without Social Security, which my mother paid into for 45 years, she would have been destitute.


Did she collect more from Social Security than she contributed to it?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Did she collect more from Social Security than she contributed to it?


Yes, I believe so. She contributed for 45 years and drew from the fund for 11 years. Luckily, Soc. Sec. was not privatized and thus, all contributed to the plan and received this entitlement. Personally, I would worry more about what Wall Street and the big brokerage firms received in the bailout because "they were too big to fail" than the amount that people like my mother received beyond what they contributed. Sadly, the situation that caused the financial collapse is once again upon us ............. and we don't have a president like Pres. Obama to help save the country from another Great Depression. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Too little. Too late.

The Clintons ditch two of the most controversial parts of their charity foundation as they quit Haiti and admit donations plunged amid controversy over Hillary



> The Clinton Foundation is shedding two of its most politically problematic programs, while Bill Clinton is asking for supporters' advice on where to take his family's charity arm next.
> 
> Being spun into separate entities are the foundation's initiatives in the country of Haiti, along with the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership, named after a billionaire backer of the couple.
> 
> Additionally, the Clinton Global Initiative, the annual meet-and-greet in New York City between celebrities, rock stars, activists, dignitaries and Clintons, officially closed up shop in recent weeks.
> 
> *In an interview with the New York Times, Clinton Foundation President Donna Shalala admitted that donations dropped thanks to the political climate of last year.*


M'bold.

The "political climate"? :yikes: Yeah, that's what affected donations. Absolutely couldn't have been those little nuggets of truth surfacing above the narrative...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, I believe so. She contributed for 45 years and drew from the fund for 11 years.


The employed contribute roughly 10 percent of their income. Essentially, the government skimmed her savings and gave her less than she contributed. If that sounds like a good deal to you, Dr. G...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The employed contribute roughly 10 percent of their income. Essentially, the government skimmed her savings and gave her less than she contributed. If that sounds like a good deal to you, Dr. G...


I think that your math is way off, Macfury. Judging from what she earned and paid into the Soc. Sec. fund, and what she received, she came out ahead ......... at least enough to keep paying her rent on her NYC apartment until she came to live with me in St. John's, NL, and to pay for food. Why she never used Medicare or Medicaid is beyond me, but my mom was a believer of not using government programs unless absolutely necessary. This is why I grew up always living on the edge, in that my parents would not accept applying for welfare, even though we qualified and really needed the extra money. Still, this experience made me aware of what it is like to be poor and to be grateful for all that I was able to achieve in my life coming from this sort of beginning. 

Paix, mon ami. Have a good day.


----------



## Macfury

Given compound interest over 45 years? I really doubt it. Given a starting point of 1960, every $100 invested in a GIC paying slightly above inflation would be worth $700 in 2005.



Dr.G. said:


> I think that your math is way off, Macfury. Judging from what she earned and paid into the Soc. Sec. fund, and what she received, she came out ahead ......... at least enough to keep paying her rent on her NYC apartment until she came to live with me in St. John's, NL, and to pay for food. Why she never used Medicare or Medicaid is beyond me, but my mom was a believer of not using government programs unless absolutely necessary. This is why I grew up always living on the edge, in that my parents would not accept applying for welfare, even though we qualified and really needed the extra money. Still, this experience made me aware of what it is like to be poor and to be grateful for all that I was able to achieve in my life coming from this sort of beginning.
> 
> Paix, mon ami. Have a good day.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Given compound interest over 45 years? I really doubt it. Given a starting point of 1960, every $100 invested in a GIC paying slightly above inflation would be worth $700 in 2005.


Keep in mind that my mother finally got a position of customer service manager at a publishing firm in her last 15 years of employment ......... but was paid about 2/3 of what the man before her earned. GICs existed in Canada, but they were called Certificates of Deposit or CDs in the US, and there was a minimum amount of money that had to be deposited to get one, just like here in Canada with a GIC. 

My mother started working just as FDR was taking office in 1934, and Soc. Sec. did not start until 1937. I don't think that she ever earned much more than the Contribution and Benefit Base for SS. I checked the Fed. Fund rate, and US interest rates were always below 4% during her working years, and so, a bank would have paid her much less even if she did have money to invest in CDs. Any extra money would have gone into better food and new clothes, rather than hand-me-downs. 

Take my word for it that she received far more in SS benefits than she ever contributed. Except for her strong belief in progressive liberalism, you would have liked her, and she would have liked you as well. The political and social beliefs of my best friend now, who when we first became friends back in 1966 made Barry Goldwater of 1964 seem like Bernie Sanders of 2016, had great debates with her. Still, she warmly welcomed him into our home each time he came to visit. She would have done the same with you I am sure.

Paix, mon ami.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html


----------



## Macfury

Here's the problem. You like the program if you believe that it pays out more than you put in. You like it if it pays the same. You still like it today, even though people receive far less than they put in. Essentially, you're in love with the program--not its ability to deliver.


----------



## Macfury

I think the Russians hacked the Superbowl. Worse, the Patriots prevailed despite the Falcons winning the popular vote.


----------



## CubaMark

Oy vey.

*White House Falsely Claims Iran Attacked U.S. Ship*


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Here's the problem. You like the program if you believe that it pays out more than you put in. You like it if it pays the same. You still like it today, even though people receive far less than they put in. Essentially, you're in love with the program--not its ability to deliver.


Yes, I love Soc. Sec. for all the help it has brought to people since 1937.

Well, I know apx. what I contributed to SS over my working years in the US (I never earned more than $7200 in any one year), and I know what I am receiving now from the SS Admin. I would say that by this time next year, I will have received more than I ever put in since I started to legally work at the age of 16. Rather than dipping into a system where I no longer contribute, I donate all of my yearly SS payments to the Food Bank for NYC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Bank_For_New_York_City#Honors_and_support ) in my mother's name. Since she is no longer alive, she gets the tax credit, which will never be used, rather than me.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think the Russians hacked the Superbowl. Worse, the Patriots prevailed despite the Falcons winning the popular vote.




Actually, I think the Falcon's defense folded and Brady came to the forefront with a great comeback performance ............ and one spectacular catch.


----------



## Macfury

Thank for your carefully thought out posts, CM. You almost made it sound like Spicer was deliberately lying about the ship.



> On Tuesday, reports surfaced that the Houthi Rebels were actually targeting what they thought was a U.S. warship. In the video, voices can be heard saying “death to America; death to Israel. But one of the defense officials told Navy Times that any report that the rebels were targeting the U.S. is speculation.





> MR. SPICER: So I think General Flynn was really clear yesterday that Iran has violated the Joint Resolution, that Iran’s additional hostile actions that it took against our Navy vessel are ones that we are very clear are not going to sit by and take.
> 
> I think that we will have further updates for you on those additional actions, but clearly we wanted to make sure that Iran understood that they are on notice, this is not going un-responded to.
> 
> John.
> 
> Q Thank you very much, Sean.
> 
> Q It was a Saudi vessel.
> 
> MR. SPICER: Thank you. Yes.
> 
> Q *They thought it was an American, but it's a Saudi vessel.
> *
> *MR. SPICER: Right, that’s right. John.*





CubaMark said:


> Oy vey.
> 
> *White House Falsely Claims Iran Attacked U.S. Ship*


----------



## SINC

Time for a great, making America great video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Time for a great, making America great video.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc


We're #2 ............... We're #2 ................ :lmao::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Given compound interest over 45 years? I really doubt it. Given a starting point of 1960, every $100 invested in a GIC paying slightly above inflation would be worth $700 in 2005.



Is this even relevant? Marc has stated what he believes to be true for his family. Must you dispute that? This is one of those clear cases where nitpicking and the need to be right trumps the goal of just having a decent conversation. My two bits anyway.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And here I thought from the people around here that only "Progs" could be snowflakes. 










http://usuncut.com


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Is this even relevant? Marc has stated what he believes to be true for his family. Must you dispute that? This is one of those clear cases where nitpicking and the need to be right trumps the goal of just having a decent conversation. My two bits anyway.


It's relevant, and Dr. G. and I were having a pleasant conversation. I think it's safe to switch your outrage machine to neutral.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And here I thought from the people around here that only "Progs" could be snowflakes.


That's pretty much the case. Spicer said he thought the skit was funny. Your meme is in error.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's relevant, and Dr. G. and I were having a pleasant conversation. I think it's safe to switch your outrage machine to neutral.



Yes, I imagine you would see that way. You never overstep. The reason it was "pleasant" is because Marc is a pacifist. Someone else may well have told you to back off. But go ahead and nitpick away, if it makes you feel better.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's pretty much the case. Spicer said he thought the skit was funny. Your meme is in error.



Not a meme. It's an article. Did you read it? Clearly Spicer felt they were being too mean to him and his boss. But I suppose your alternative facts are at least as important as my actual one. Perhaps moreso.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Is this even relevant? Marc has stated what he believes to be true for his family. Must you dispute that? This is one of those clear cases where nitpicking and the need to be right trumps the goal of just having a decent conversation. My two bits anyway.


To be fair, I know apx. what my mother earned, what she paid into Soc. Sec. over the years and what she received until she died. She got more than she put in which is why Soc. Sec. is an entitlement that all who work pay into and receive something in return. Since my mother had no other source of income, she did not see this Soc. Sec. money taxed back. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's relevant, and Dr. G. and I were having a pleasant conversation. I think it's safe to switch your outrage machine to neutral.


I agree, Macfury. No need to be outraged, but I did not see Frank's comment as being one of outrage. I had the fact and the basic amounts, you did not, so you were providing theoreticals and I was providing factuals. Still, we had a good conversation and we are still friends. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

You didn't go to the source. Weak investigative skills.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not a meme. It's an article. Did you read it? Clearly Spicer felt they were being too mean to him and his boss. But I suppose your alternative facts are at least as important as my actual one. Perhaps moreso.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You didn't go to the source. Weak investigative skills.



Please clarify which part of this "meme," as you call it, shows that he thought it was funny, or provide some "alternate facts" at least. Weak commentary. 



> Snowflake Spicer Whines SNL Is "Mean" to Him and Demands They Stop Lampooning Him
> 
> White House Press Secretary and precious snowflake Sean Spicer isn’t a big fan of satire, and would like the show’s writers to stop being so “mean.”
> 
> Gossip site Extra reported on Sunday that while Spicer may, in fact, have not watched Saturday Night Live and caught the sketch featuring his hostility toward the media (Spicer argued he was unaware until after leaving church on Sunday morning), he did think McCarthy should “dial back” her mockery. He also said Alec Baldwin’s impression of his boss was “mean,” and that the show was “unfortunate” in having a “streak of meanness” in place of humor.
> 
> In the sketch itself, McCarthy, as Spicer, took a question from New York Times reporter Glenn Thrush, before insulting him and referring to any reporter who asked a question Spicer didn’t like “Glenn” as an insult. At one point, Spicer was shown chewing a massive amount of gum before placing it on the lectern, shouting, “I’ll get back to you,” and then throwing the lectern at journalists who asked questions critical of Trump.
> 
> “[McCarthy] needs to slow down on the gum chewing; way too many pieces in there,” Spicer told Extra, though it was unclear from the context of the rest of the interview whether or not Spicer wanted McCarthy to dial back pieces of gum chewed to a specified number, or if he was being sarcastic.
> 
> Watch Saturday Night Live’s Sean Spicer sketch below:
> 
> 
> Tom Cahill is a writer for US Uncut based in the Pacific Northwest. He specializes in coverage of political, economic, and environmental news. You can contact him via email at [email protected], or follow him on Facebook.


----------



## Macfury

I went to the original source that this was cribbed from. I've done your work for you a dozen or more times, but I think it's just made you even more lazy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please clarify which part of this "meme," as you call it, shows that he thought it was funny, or provide some "alternate facts" at least. Weak commentary.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I went to the original source that this was cribbed from. I've done your work for you a dozen or more times, but I think it's just made you even more lazy.



Would you like me to do your work for you? Since you don't want to present an alternative source, let me provide de one for you. It is sympathetic to the position as press secretary Spicer finds himself in, but it certainly does not seem to indicate that he found the McCarthy impersonation funny, and Trump even less so. But please, explain to me how I am "misunderstanding" this, and do not be lazy in your explanation. 



> White House rattled by McCarthy's spoof of Spicer
> 
> By Annie Karni, Josh Dawsey and Tara Palmeri02/06/17 08:40 PM EST
> 170206-melissa-mccarthy-spicer-screengrab-1160.jpg
> 
> The devastating “Saturday Night Live” caricature of Sean Spicer that aired over the weekend, played by Melissa McCarthy, did not go over well internally at a White House where looks matter. | POLITICO Screen grab
> White House rattled by McCarthy's spoof of Spicer
> 
> As the press secretary for a president who's obsessed with how things play on cable TV, Sean Spicer’s real audience during his daily televised press briefings has always been an audience of one.
> 
> And the devastating “Saturday Night Live” caricature of Spicer that aired over the weekend — in which a belligerent Spicer was spoofed by a gum-chomping, super soaker-wielding Melissa McCarthy in drag — did not go over well internally at a White House in which looks matter.
> 
> Story Continued Below
> 
> More than being lampooned as a press secretary who makes up facts, it was Spicer’s portrayal by a woman that was most problematic in the president’s eyes, according to sources close to him. And the unflattering send-up by a female comedian was not considered helpful for Spicer’s longevity in the grueling, high-profile job in which he has struggled to strike the right balance between representing an administration that considers the media the "opposition party," and developing a functional relationship with the press.
> 
> "Trump doesn't like his people to look weak," added a top Trump donor.
> 
> Trump’s uncharacteristic Twitter silence over the weekend about the “Saturday Night Live” sketch was seen internally as a sign of how uncomfortable it made the White House feel. Sources said the caricature of Spicer by McCarthy struck a nerve and was upsetting to the press secretary and to his allies, who immediately saw how damaging it could be in Trump world.
> 
> Spicer on Monday was traveling aboard Air Force One from Florida to Washington, D.C., and gamely shrugged off the spoof that was playing in loops on cable news throughout the day.
> 
> McCarthy, he said, “needs to slow down on the gum chewing; way too many pieces in there,” he joked in an interview with Extra.
> 
> And on Monday, Spicer’s allies were trying to put a happy face on the incident. "He takes the job seriously but doesn't take himself that seriously," said a person close to Spicer, who said he also understood the instant-viral skit helped him reach a new level of fame. "He knows that put him up on the stratosphere of recognition on a level," this person said. "You've got to embrace it."
> 
> But on Tuesday, Spicer has the uncomfortable task of facing reporters once again in the briefing room — where the elephant in the room will be the unflattering McCarthy caricature.
> 
> White House sources said they expect him to cut the tension with humor, and that he has already been on a charm offensive before the "SNL" skit, knowing he has relations to repair with the press.
> 
> Spicer has reached out to some reporters, in recent days, simply to wish them a happy birthday. Speaking at a forum at George Washington University last week, Spicer was self-effacing, making fun of his first stumble out of the gate, where even his ill-fitting suit was criticized by the boss. “I looked at my suit choice and made some changes there," he joked.
> 
> But Spicer for weeks now has been fighting to repair his troubling first impression behind the lectern — he is still operating under a cloud that he created when he took no questions and made false statements about the crowd size at Trump’s inauguration, losing some of his credibility with the room of reporters he faces off with every day. Internally, people close to Trump are eager to point out that Spicer was also not Trump’s first choice for the high-profile position of press secretary, but that chief of staff Reince Priebus pushed for the former Republican National Committee spokesman to get the job.
> 
> Spicer has taken the role seriously; in the final weeks during the transition, he was participating in mock briefing sessions to get ready for his on-camera performances. Since Jan. 20, Spicer has had the added difficulty of doing two jobs at once: He is acting as communications director on top of his job as press secretary, while the administration seeks to fill the former job. Senior White House officials Kellyanne Conway and Hope Hicks still attend the daily briefings and sit on the side to watch him — a move some interpreted as a sign that Spicer still needs supervision.
> 
> The “SNL” clip was seen by some in Trump’s orbit as devastating because it was accurate. “I thought they had Sean down pretty good,” said one Trump ally, who thought Spicer has been set up in an impossible position.
> 
> In a phone interview on Monday afternoon, Spicer tried to tack away from the skit. "I would much rather have the focus be on the president's agenda and the success he's having,” he said. “That's all I'm saying on it." When pressed about what his own reaction to the skit was, he demurred. “It doesn’t really matter what I think.”


http://usuncut.com/politics/sean-spicer-snl-impression/


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Whoops, bad choice.

Drug dealer whose sentence was commuted by Obama is back behind bars | New York Post


----------



## SINC

What a mess.

Massive Cleanup Underway Where Environmentalists Camped for Pipeline Protest

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/0...nvironmentalists-camped-for-pipeline-protest/


----------



## SINC

Uh oh.

Russia, China Sign Deal to Bypass US Dollar | Al Jazeera America


----------



## Macfury

That's interesting. First of all, why would not liking something make someone a "snowflake"? I think your meme creator doesn't understand the word. But for the sake of argument, find me some people who use the term "snowflake" correctly but are also "deeply offended" by a Broadway Show, a coffee shop, SNL ,a Star Wars movie and a beer ad? Should be pretty easy for you to find if it's very common.



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> Russia, China Sign Deal to Bypass US Dollar | Al Jazeera America



Hey, SINC--that was three years ago!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's interesting. First of all, why would not liking something make someone a "snowflake"? I think your meme creator doesn't understand the word. But for the sake of argument, find me some people who use the term "snowflake" correctly but are also "deeply offended" by a Broadway Show, a coffee shop, SNL ,a Star Wars movie and a beer ad? Should be pretty easy for you to find if it's very common.



It's not a meme, it's a tweet. As you use the term "snowflake" (and fairly narrowly, I might add), it appears to refer to one who is easily offended. That would seem to describe His Donaldness to a T, since he tweets about how offended he is by all of the aforementioned media and his mean they are to him. The bully does not like to be bullied, as he is very sensitive about these matters. I'm the President! You have to respect me now, damn it!! 

If you think the Donald ISN'T a snowflake about this, please explain.


----------



## Macfury

I thought a picture of a tweet could be a meme.

I've use the term about a half-dozen times. A snowflake is not only easily offended but believes that his/her feelings are unique and special--primatily addressed to the younger generation who were raised to feel that way. So merely not liking something does not fit the definition. I may be wrong, but I've never heard Donald Trump use the term snowflake. Have you?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I thought a picture of a tweet could be a meme.
> 
> 
> 
> I've use the term about a half-dozen times. A snowflake is not only easily offended but believes that his/her feelings are unique and special--primatily addressed to the younger generation who were raised to feel that way. So merely not liking something does not fit the definition. I may be wrong, but I've never heard Donald Trump use the term snowflake. Have you?



According to this definition, a tweet could be a meme. A meme is characterized by how rapidly it is shared across social media. Typically today it seems to take the form of a picture with a caption above or below (or both) the image. 

To find "snowflake" I had to go to the urban dictionary, since the term seems to be relatively recent. I have not heard the Donald use it, but it has certainly been overused by some on this forum (**cough cough** name starts with Fe).


----------



## heavyall

Those are all wrong. Snowflakes melt when subjected to the heat -- they need to be protected, they demand their safe spaces. That they get offended is not the point at all, rahter, that they feel they have the right to never even be subjected to things that might offend them.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Those are all wrong. Snowflakes melt when subjected to the heat -- they need to be protected, they demand their safe spaces. That they get offended is not the point at all, rahter, that they feel they have the right to never even be subjected to things that might offend them.


That's what happens when you consult the "urban dictionary," which is open to anyone who wants to create an entry.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's what happens when you consult the "urban dictionary," which is open to anyone who wants to create an entry.



Got another source for a definition? Did that definition hurt your widow feewings?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> That's what happens when you consult the "urban dictionary," which is open to anyone who wants to create an entry.


But it's a million billion times more accurate than that alt-right dictionary, Webster's!!!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Got another source for a definition? Did that definition hurt your widow feewings?


As a matter of fact, I don't think anything I've experienced at EhMac has ever hurt my feelings--let alone the feelings of any widow.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> As a matter of fact, I don't think anything I've experienced at EhMac has ever hurt my feelings--let alone the feelings of any widow.




Again to the subject: do you have another definition? Because the regular dictionaries tend to use definitions referring to that white stuff that falls from the sky.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> But it's a million billion times more accurate than that alt-right dictionary, Webster's!!!



You prefer this?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You prefer this?


I prefer to be less bored than watching you wrestle with these definitions.


----------



## FeXL

You're asking me to click on one of your memes?

<snort>

Not likely...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You prefer this?


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...00e82&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

Bug Humbar!!!! tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

DeVos Confirmation Makes Immigrants America's Only Source of Educated People - The New Yorker

:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## macintosh doctor

i can not stop but laugh until i pass out - look who is protesting
yes that is the mother of the month and morality person of the year. 
Casey Anthony - can not believe she has the right to protest anything at all.. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0SXxkrzwo&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/QB0SXxkrzwo

this solidifies that the left are beyond moral or worth saving.
Oh look, a woman, who killed her own baby, is against President Trump. Hold on while I search for my shocked look face. I know it's around here somewhere.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You're asking me to click on one of your memes?
> 
> 
> 
> <snort>
> 
> 
> 
> Not likely...



A definition from Webster's is not a meme...but go and believe whatever makes you happy. Perhaps your Webster's defines "snowflake" differently than my Webster's does.


----------



## FeXL

Don't care. Coming from you, ain't clicking on it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> A definition from Webster's is not a meme...


----------



## FeXL

I realize that facts mean little in the middle of a good, screeching Prog narrative, but...

THIS HITLER NONSENSE …



> Now, people are comparing Donald Trump to Hitler. And the countdown has officially begun, to …well …I don’t know …but something really bad. I get that someone who is combative with the press and who wants to vet refugees and shut down open immigration fits the bill some are always looking for when it comes to finally getting their “Hitler” villain.
> 
> *But if you study enough about it, you realize the guy vetting and banning refugees is probably not Hitler …the guy CREATING refugees probably is.*
> 
> If we keep looking for Hitler in every United States president we disagree with, we’re not going to recognize the real one when he actually shows up …in a different country.


M'bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Don't care. Coming from you, ain't clicking on it.



So who exactly is being stubborn and sanctimonious now, then? You're the one that referenced Webster's. Apparently truth hurts, so much that you'll avoid it all costs. I can see why you like Trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

I'm not going to click on a thousand stupid tapatalk images in the hopes that maybe, someday, one day, I'll find some choice little nugget from Freddie worth reading. You have posted so much crap on these boards that the chances of finding anything even remotely accurate, interesting or stomach-able is guaranteed to be practically zero. 

You've created this situation. This is my response. I don't see them, I don't click on them, I don't care about them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So who exactly is being stubborn and sanctimonious now, then?


----------



## CubaMark

So Betsy DeVos, God's warrior on earth for young minds, has managed to buy her way into the position of Secretary of Education, with VP Pence having to cast the tie-breaking vote after 2 Republicans broke with their party and opposed her nomination, joining the Democrats. Never before in the history of the United States has the VP had to cast the tie-breaking vote for a Cabinet nomination. They have no shame.










Betsy DeVos Just Bought Herself a Trump Cabinet Position (Rolling Stone)

The Betsy DeVos Confirmation Debacle (The New Yorker)

Why is Betsy DeVos, Trump's pick for education secretary, so unpopular? (BBC News)

Betsy DeVos confirmed as Education secretary, thanks to VP (Boston Globe)


----------



## FeXL

So, for $h!ts & giggles I clicked on your BBC link, just 'cause I didn't know what the issues about her were, either.

It appears that the biggest objections are that she supports charter schools & doesn't have much experience in the field of education:



> _DeVos isn't an educator, or an education leader," it read. "She's not an expert in pedagogy or curriculum or school governance. In fact, she has no relevant credentials or experience for a job setting standards and guiding dollars for the nation's public schools._


So, seeing as Barry's team did such an outstanding job with education (long read, well worth it) for the last 8 years, what's the issue with trying someone new?



> In the Obama years, America’s public education system embarked on a vast social experiment that threatened to turn schools into educational free-fire zones. The campaign—carried out in the name of “racial equity”—sought to reduce dramatically the suspension rate of black students, who get referred for discipline at much higher rates than other students. From the top down, the U.S. Department of Education drove the effort; from the bottom up, local educational bureaucrats have supported and implemented it.


More:



> We have a segment of kids who consider themselves untouchable,” said one veteran teacher as the 2015–16 school year began. At the city’s high schools, teachers stood by helplessly as rowdy packs of kids—who came to school for free breakfast, lunch, and WiFi—rampaged through the hallways. “Classroom invasions” by students settling private quarrels or taking revenge for drug deals gone bad became routine. “Students who tire of lectures simply stand up and leave,” reported _City Pages_. “They hammer into rooms where they don’t belong, inflicting mischief and malice on their peers.” The first few months of the school year witnessed riots or brawls at Como Park, Central, Humboldt, and Harding High Schools—including six fights in three days at Como Park. Police had to use chemical irritants to disperse battling students.
> 
> ...
> 
> Meanwhile, at many elementary schools, anarchy reigned. Students routinely spewed obscenities, pummeled classmates, and raced screaming through the halls, Benner wrote in his 2015 Pioneer Press article. Elementary school teachers, like their high school counterparts, risked physical danger. Teacher Donna Wu was caught in a fight between two fifth-grade girls and knocked to the ground with a concussion. “I’ve been punched and kicked and spit on” and called “every cuss word you could possibly think of,” fourth-grade aide Sean Kelly told _City Pages_.


She sums:



> Who pays the greatest price for misguided racial-equity discipline policies? The many poor and minority students who show up at school ready to learn. The breakdown of order that such policies promote is destined to make these children’s already-uphill struggle for a decent education even more daunting.


Yep. A bang up job.

Maybe the right person for the job is someone who hasn't been indoctrinated by the existing system...


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> So Betsy DeVos, God's warrior on earth for young minds, has managed to buy her way into the position of Secretary of Education, with VP Pence having to cast the tie-breaking vote after 2 Republicans broke with their party and opposed her nomination, joining the Democrats. Never before in the history of the United States has the VP had to cast the tie-breaking vote for a Cabinet nomination. They have no shame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betsy DeVos Just Bought Herself a Trump Cabinet Position (Rolling Stone)
> 
> The Betsy DeVos Confirmation Debacle (The New Yorker)
> 
> Why is Betsy DeVos, Trump's pick for education secretary, so unpopular? (BBC News)
> 
> Betsy DeVos confirmed as Education secretary, thanks to VP (Boston Globe)


tptptptptptptptptptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Paix, mes amis.



Indeed.


----------



## Macfury

A Liberal badass? Never seen one. Probably hiding out with Bigfoot.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Never before in the history of the United States has the VP had to cast the tie-breaking vote for a Cabinet nomination.


Has it ever come down to a tie before? Let us know your research on this.

Either way, DeVos is a great choice to dismantle the Department of Education and promote charter schools!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Has it ever come down to a tie before? Let us know your research on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, DeVos is a great choice to dismantle the Department of Education and promote charter schools!



If I didn't know better, I'd think you just like to the object to anything a left-leaning person suggests. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

_Trump Republicans wasting no time...._

GOP lawmaker proposes abolishing Department of Education | TheHill


----------



## Macfury

You don't know better.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If I didn't know better, I'd think you just like to the object to anything a left-leaning person suggests.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't know better.



Neither do you, my gaslighting friend.


----------



## Macfury

That guy is jumping the gun--but a great concept nonetheless!



CubaMark said:


> _Trump Republicans wasting no time...._
> 
> GOP lawmaker proposes abolishing Department of Education | TheHill


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _Trump Republicans wasting no time...._
> 
> 
> 
> GOP lawmaker proposes abolishing Department of Education | TheHill



Good lord. All the hallmarks of a burgeoning dictatorship, but our alt-right friends don't want us to sound the alarum bells. To quote Joseph Campanello, what will they think of next? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## heavyall

Dr.G. said:


> Paix, mes amis.


That meme is still wrong. having an opinion on those matters is not the definition of a snowflake. The term is specifically about fragility. It refers to people who demand their safe spaces, who think others shouldn't even have the right to speak because hearing their words hurts so much.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

heavyall said:


> That meme is still wrong. having an opinion on those matters is not the definition of a snowflake. The term is specifically about fragility. It refers to people who demand their safe spaces, who think others shouldn't even have the right to speak because hearing their words hurts so much.



You have some corroboration for that definition? Or did you just make it up?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed.


Merci, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> A Liberal badass? Never seen one. Probably hiding out with Bigfoot.


No, we are here and we shall be heard. Come on out to Lunenburg, NS and I shall share a beer with you at our local pub. Paix, mon ami.

The Knot Pub of Lunenburg

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTW3ABcSZ88[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2JR3FmvVAw[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Has it ever come down to a tie before? Let us know your research on this.
> 
> Either way, DeVos is a great choice to dismantle the Department of Education and promote charter schools!


No, this is the first tie-breaking vote cast by the VP during any Senate cabinet confirmation.


----------



## Beej

*Protest and Popularity*

One piece of evidence on causality, but far from a comprehensive body of challenged and refined research.

Extreme Protest Tactics Reduce Popular Support for Social Movements
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2911177

Abstract: 
Social movements are critical agents of change that vary greatly in both tactics and popular support. Prior work shows that extreme protest tactics – actions that are highly counter-normative, disruptive, or harmful to others, including inflammatory rhetoric, blocking traffic, and damaging property – are effective for gaining publicity. However, we find across three experiments that extreme protest tactics decreased popular support for a given cause because they reduced feelings of identification with the movement. Though this effect obtained in tests of popular responses to extreme tactics used by animal rights, Black Lives Matter, and anti-Trump protests (Studies 1-3), we found that self-identified political activists were willing to use extreme tactics because they believed them to be effective for recruiting popular support (Studies 4a & 4b). The activist’s dilemma – wherein tactics that raise awareness also tend to reduce popular support – highlights a key challenge faced by social movements struggling to affect progressive change.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Prior work shows that extreme protest tactics – actions that are highly counter-normative, disruptive, or harmful to others, including inflammatory rhetoric, blocking traffic, and damaging property – are effective for gaining publicity. However, we find across three experiments that extreme protest tactics decreased popular support for a given cause because they reduced feelings of identification with the movement." Very true, Beej. Peaceful, non-violent protests are the only ones that truly advance the cause in a positive direction with a majority of people. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> One piece of evidence on causality, but far from a comprehensive body of challenged and refined research.
> 
> Extreme Protest Tactics Reduce Popular Support for Social Movements
> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2911177
> 
> Abstract:
> Social movements are critical agents of change that vary greatly in both tactics and popular support. Prior work shows that extreme protest tactics – actions that are highly counter-normative, disruptive, or harmful to others, including inflammatory rhetoric, blocking traffic, and damaging property – are effective for gaining publicity. However, we find across three experiments that extreme protest tactics decreased popular support for a given cause because they reduced feelings of identification with the movement. Though this effect obtained in tests of popular responses to extreme tactics used by animal rights, Black Lives Matter, and anti-Trump protests (Studies 1-3), we found that self-identified political activists were willing to use extreme tactics because they believed them to be effective for recruiting popular support (Studies 4a & 4b). The activist’s dilemma – wherein tactics that raise awareness also tend to reduce popular support – highlights a key challenge faced by social movements struggling to affect progressive change.


This is precisely why I have zero respect for most environmental groups, but especially PETA and Greenpeace.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No, this is the first tie-breaking vote cast by the VP during any Senate cabinet confirmation.



What are your thoughts on her qualifications, Marc?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, this is the first tie-breaking vote cast by the VP during any Senate cabinet confirmation.


What I was asking was whether a cabinet confirmation vote had ever resulted in a tie before this. I would expect the VP to cast a vote in favour of his president's nomination. CubaMark implies that he would expect a tie to mean that the candidate should remain unconfirmed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What I was asking was whether a cabinet confirmation vote had ever resulted in a tie before this. I would expect the VP to cast a vote in favour of his president's nomination. CubaMark implies that he would expect a tie to mean that the candidate should remain unconfirmed.


That would be my second question. Does CM think that if this had happened under Bill's Wife, the VP would not have voted similarly?


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> One piece of evidence on causality, but far from a comprehensive body of challenged and refined research.


That seems pretty self-evident to me. Do Madonna & Ashley Judd think that all their screeching is really advancing their cause? Are all the BLM protesters screaming at the top of their lungs convinced they are really helping? Are all the snowflakes threatening violence doing themselves any favours?

Not only are they all wrong about the cause, they're wrong about the methodology.

Go figger...


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> What are your thoughts on her qualifications, Marc?


In my opinion, she will be a disaster for the public education system. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What I was asking was whether a cabinet confirmation vote had ever resulted in a tie before this. I would expect the VP to cast a vote in favour of his president's nomination. CubaMark implies that he would expect a tie to mean that the candidate should remain unconfirmed.


Only a tie vote in the Supreme Court will let the ruling from the previous court stand. I don't know of a VP ever voting against his president/party to break a tie. John Adams did way back when, but there were no parties back then, although he did side with George Washington's view of staying neutral in the war between England and France.


----------



## FeXL

'Cause the Amish, Lutherans & followers of Moroni have all been in the news recently regarding their raping & killing.

Democrats Oblivious to Threat of Radical Islam



> A new poll conducted by CBS reveals that the majority (66%) of Democrats do not believe that Islam is more violent than other religions. Nearly the same percentage (63%) of Republicans believe that Islam is more violent.


Unbelievable...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> In my opinion, she will be a disaster for the public education system. We shall see.


The federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in education--a state and local responsibility.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Who woulda guessed?

Never a Community Organiser around...



> _"A man whose life sentence for drug distribution conspiracy was *recently commuted by former President Barack Obama* is back in jail after allegedly crashing his vehicle while fleeing from a (kilo of cocaine) drug deal."
> 
> "In a signed notification approving the commutation application, then-President Obama wrote that Gill deserves it *'because you have demonstrated the potential to turn your life around'.*"_​


Links' bold.

Brought to you by:



> The same keen sense of judgement that added over 8 trillion dollars to the national debt.


Yep.

Jes' 'cause he's gone, doesn't mean his legacy won't continue for years to come...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> "A man whose life sentence for drug distribution conspiracy was recently commuted by former President Barack Obama is back in jail after allegedly crashing his vehicle while fleeing from a (kilo of cocaine) drug deal."
> 
> "In a signed notification approving the commutation application, then-President Obama wrote that Gill deserves it 'because you have demonstrated the potential to turn your life around'."


Sadly, he could not tun his car around.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Sadly, he could not tun his car around.


Ba dump da! :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> That would be my second question. Does CM think that if this had happened under Bill's Wife, the VP would not have voted similarly?


Moot question. I doubt that a Democratic President would have appointed someone with ZERO qualifications to the position, and a 50/50 vote split would therefore be unlikely.

Look, even two Republican Senators opposed DeVos's nomination. 

Of course, in hindsight, it's quite apparent that Orange Leader didn't need to appoint someone with education qualifications to the Secretary of Education, since the intent —apparently— is to dismantle the Department.

A wrecking ball just has to be a wrecking ball. It doesn't need to know how to manage the school it's smashing to bits....


----------



## Macfury

Her qualifications are to push for charter schools and to dismantle the Federal Department of Education. You don't need hindsight, since this was pretty much promised. However, no actual schools will be smashed to bits--just a massive bureaucracy not authorized by the US Constitution. Even Canada has no federal Ministry of Education.

I'm worried that she may not be up to the task of annihilation.


----------



## FeXL

Then what was your point for the post?

Your tone implied that there was some reason to be critical of a tie-breaker going to a particular candidate?



CubaMark said:


> Moot question.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And? 

Are all votes s'pose to be precisely down party lines or are you allowed to express dissent when you believe dissent is required, no matter what your affiliation?

To me, that is the essence of democracy. Standing up for what you believe in, not following some pre-ordained conclusion.



CubaMark said:


> Look, even two Republican Senators opposed DeVos's nomination.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yeah. And?
> 
> Are all votes s'pose to be precisely down party lines or are you allowed to express dissent when you believe dissent is required, no matter what your affiliation?
> 
> To me, that is the essence of democracy. Standing up for what you believe in, not following some pre-ordained conclusion.


Republicans tend to vote their conscience and Democrats tend to vote 100% party line. What's surprising about the DeVos nomination, given that?


----------



## FeXL

What's this? _Mother Jones_ is critical of a Dem? Hell hath truly frozen over...

Mother Jones proves Keith Ellison lying about his Farrakhan history



> Since he announced his intention to run for Chair of the Democratic National Committee, Keith Ellison has received support from top Democrats, like Chuck Schumer, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi, and the left-wing Bernie-base of the party.
> 
> Yet from the start Ellison has been dogged with revelations about his past support for Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, his claim that American Jews do Israel’s bidding, and his association with fringe anti-Israel groups


More:



> In an article arguing that Ellison is what Democrats need now, Mother Jones dug deeply into Ellison’s claims with regard to his Farrakhan connection. In so doing, Mother Jones not only cast into serious doubt Ellison’s defense, it also discovered even more troubling aspects of Ellison’s past, including a tendency to use the now-fashionable intersectionality theory to cast European Jews as oppressors, particularly as relates to Israel.


Ellison sounds like the perfect man for the job.


----------



## Dr.G.

Grizzly Bears Flee America's Classrooms Following Confirmation Of Betsy DeVos – Breaking Burgh

"The development is a shame say educators because – though some bears were undoubtedly there hoping to eat small children – the vast majority simply sought to improve themselves through learning."

“What we should be doing instead of this draconian policy of bringing guns into public schools is developing a proper vetting program for bears who wish to attend.”

:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Ass or asset? Steph Curry confronts Under Armour CEO over Trump - Feb. 9, 2017

This is not going to end well. It was like when Babe Ruth went after Pres. Hoover in 1928 ........... and the next year the Great Depression started.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sarah Palin as U.S. ambassador to Canada? | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Well, she can honestly say that she can see Canada from her home state ..................


----------



## Dr.G.

'Go buy Ivanka's stuff': Kellyanne Conway touts Trump daughter's fashion line - Business - CBC News

"White House spokesman Sean Spicer defended Trump's tweet on Wednesday, telling reporters that "the president has every right as a father to stand up" for his daughter."

True ............. especially since her line of clothes are made in China, and Pres. Trump is the "jobs president".


----------



## Dr.G.

Sarah Palin for ambassador to Canada? | Metro Ottawa

I'll believe it when I hear it on Fox News.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hey kids! I think we have a winner for best word going viral! 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Don't think that one has legs or will go viral. Doesn't have the right vitriol.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Sounds like Spidey is losing air. Try: "Psssst."


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Says He Has Been Treated Very Unfairly by People Who Wrote Constitution - The New Yorker

In an ominous warning, Trump said that, as of Friday, he was putting the writers of the U.S. Constitution “on notice.”

“I don’t have their names yet, but that’s something I’m looking into,” he said. “These jokers are not going to get away with this.” 

Historical fact -- The authorship of the US Constitution is typically credited to Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Paine, and John Adams – George Washington is credited with the responsibility of overseeing the Constitutional Convention that took place in Philadelphia between May 5th 1787 and September 17th, 1787.


----------



## Macfury

The Ninth Circuit clearly has no knowledge of the constitution.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The Ninth Circuit clearly has no knowledge of the constitution.


Luckily, the judges in the 9th Circuit Court know and respect the US Constitution. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Keeping more promises?

*Federal agents conduct immigration enforcement raids in at least six states*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ebsite&utm_source=fark&utm_term=.f6809f14aae5


----------



## SINC

Bonakowski gets it. 

Sarah Palin for U.S. Ambassador to Canada? You betcha! | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Bonakowski gets it.
> 
> Sarah Palin for U.S. Ambassador to Canada? You betcha! | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun


Well, maybe he "gets it", but lets hope for someone more qualified. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, maybe he "gets it", but lets hope for someone more qualified. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Let's hope for Palin!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Let's hope for Palin!




Let's not! However, she can see Canada from her house.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Let's hope for Palin!


True ............ let's hope that she stays in Alaska ............ or reclaims her Fox TV gig. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump shook the Japanese Prime Minister's hand for 19 seconds - CNNPolitics.com

I counted only 17 seconds. Classic CNN fake news reporting. Now, had he refused to shake his hand .............. THAT would have been real news.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Let's hope for Palin!


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


No!!!!!!!!!! She should stay in the US ................... unless we tell here that Churchill, MB is the capital of Canada ............. but the killing of polar bears is illegal.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Long, but well worth the read.

Andrew Sullivan: The Madness of King Donald


----------



## SINC

A gathering storm?

The Inevitability Of Impeachment | The Huffington Post


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> A gathering storm?
> 
> The Inevitability Of Impeachment | The Huffington Post


This column was written for _the American Prospect_ and is pretty much inaccurate and unhinged.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> A gathering storm?
> 
> The Inevitability Of Impeachment | The Huffington Post


"Impeachment is gaining ground because it is the only way to get him out, and because Republicans are already deserting this president in droves ...." I don't see this happening now, or until the midterm elections in 2018. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> "Impeachment is gaining ground because it is the only way to get him out, and because Republicans are already deserting this president in droves ...." I don't see this happening now, or until the midterm elections in 2018. We shall see.


This is why I see the article is inaccurate. There is no mass desertion, and only a lot of anger among Democrat voters


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Another commentary about how, like the Bard said, those he commands move only in command, nothing in love.



> The Spy Revolt Against Trump Begins
> 
> Intelligence Community pushes back against a White House it considers leaky, untruthful and penetrated by the Kremlin
> 
> John R. Schindler02/12/17 10:00am
> Opinion
> 
> In a recent column, I explained how the still-forming Trump administration is already doing serious harm to America’s longstanding global intelligence partnerships. In particular, fears that the White House is too friendly to Moscow are causing close allies to curtail some of their espionage relationships with Washington—a development with grave implications for international security, particularly in the all-important realm of counterterrorism.
> 
> Now those concerns are causing problems much closer to home—in fact, inside the Beltway itself. Our Intelligence Community is so worried by the unprecedented problems of the Trump administration—not only do senior officials possess troubling ties to the Kremlin, there are nagging questions about basic competence regarding Team Trump—that it is beginning to withhold intelligence from a White House which our spies do not trust.
> 
> That the IC has ample grounds for concern is demonstrated by almost daily revelations of major problems inside the White House, a mere three weeks after the inauguration. The president has repeatedly gone out of his way to antagonize our spies, mocking them and demeaning their work, and Trump’s personal national security guru can’t seem to keep his story straight on vital issues.


http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/


----------



## Macfury

That's by John Schindler, the married guy who was disgraced after tweeting photos of his flaccid member to a woman on Twitter!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is why I see the article is inaccurate. There is no mass desertion, and only a lot of anger among Democrat voters


Well, even Fox News is showing that some of this anger at the Republican Town Halls are Republican voters who voted for Trump. This could spell trouble for these Republican candidates. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Liberal superhero Justin Trudeau is not immune to the forces of Trump - CNNPolitics.com

Wow! CNN is calling PM Trudeau a "super hero" .................. able to leap tall buildings in a single bound ................


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's by John Schindler, the married guy who was disgraced after tweeting photos of his flaccid member to a woman on Twitter!



Why a flaccid pic? Who would get a rise out of that?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why a flaccid pic? Who would get a rise out of that?


Clearly he wasn't using his noodle.


----------



## CubaMark

A great bit from John Oliver following the last few days of Trump's inanity:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecEV4dSAXE[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

I don't get the love for John Oliver. Maybe he's just someone that disenfranchised progs enjoy listening to.


----------



## SINC

Another comedian who thinks he knows politics fail.


----------



## macintosh doctor

has anyone else seen how awkward Trudeau is in the US today.. 
i as a Canadian am embarrassed .. 
I feel bad that Mr. Trump had to baby sit today.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Wow just wow


----------



## Macfury

To be honest, I think JT was frightened as hell. He was spouting the stuff about women in the workforce as a gift to Trump--a way to help Trump soften his image—and to avoid discussing a trade war. I hope for our sake that it works.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Another comedian who thinks he knows politics fail.


What, specifically, did Oliver say that you disagree with?


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> To be honest, I think JT was frightened as hell. He was spouting the stuff about women in the workforce as a gift to Trump--a way to help Trump soften his image—and to avoid discussing a trade war. I hope for our sake that it works.


he wasted his time.. Justin has been flying around with women and preaching women issues. which is fine and dandy but trade is more of a pressing issue. 

If justin wants to fly to Iran and Qatar as well all those islamist countries spreading the need to address women issues i will applaud his efforts. but with Trump he wasted his time, women are not under threat in Canada nor US - trade trade trade seriously sending a child to do an adult's job.


----------



## macintosh doctor

this made me laugh as it is so accurate


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> has anyone else seen how awkward Trudeau is in the US today..
> 
> i as a Canadian am embarrassed ..
> 
> I feel bad that Mr. Trump had to baby sit today.



Other way around. Trudeau displayed a confidence right down to the handshake that Mr Trump was at once both impressed and perplexed by.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> What, specifically, did Oliver say that you disagree with?



I believe he just disagrees with the concept of Oliver in the first lace. Damn smart-assed prog liberal democrat know it all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macintosh doctor

Freddie_Biff said:


> Other way around. Trudeau displayed a confidence right down to the handshake that Mr Trump was at once both impressed and perplexed by.


no, more like i finally understood what Trump grabbing a pussy by the hand means :lmao:


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Other way around. Trudeau displayed a confidence right down to the handshake that Mr Trump was at once both impressed and perplexed by.


Really? I thought she was a real pussy.


----------



## CubaMark

*Well, nice to see Trump doing something positive for the economy....* :lmao:

*Americans building doomsday bunkers in 'record numbers' since Donald Trump's election*










It sounds like something straight out of a dystopian sci-fi flick, but like many peculiarities emerging with the Trump administration, it’s not; people across America are building “doomsday bunkers” in hoards. 

It is not a new business by any stretch, but demand for underground bunkers is at an all-time high according to Clyde Scott, owner of Rising Bunkers, based in Texas. 

He said be believed the growth in business was politically driven.

“The current administration is a no back down administration….then you have hotheads like Kim Jong Un and Putin,” Mr Scott told The Independent. 

Sales are up 400 per cent for Rising Bunkers in the past two months, said Mr Scott, who noted his bunker business- apparently the largest in the world - is already a $10m-a-year business. 

While Rising Bunkers is an international operation, 99 per cent of demand comes from the US, said Mr Scott.​
(Independent UK)


----------



## CubaMark

_Funny how the folks who always get pulled aside for "enhanced vetting" always have "foreign" names, eh?_

*NASA scientist detained at US border until he unlocks his phone*



















He added: “Just to be clear - I’m a US-born citizen and NASA engineer, traveliing with a valid US-visa.” 

** * **​“It was not that they were concerned with me bringing something dangerous in, because they didn’t even touch the bags,” he said.​
(Independent UK)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

You kids had to be watching different footage than I was.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...au-shake-hands-an-analysis.html?client=safari


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The contrast is quite obvious. 



> When Trudeau met Trump: Canadian exceptionalism, American envy
> 
> 
> Sarah Kendzior is a St. Louis, Mo.-based commentator who writes about politics, the economy and media.
> 
> Sarah Kendzior is a St. Louis, Mo.-based commentator who writes about politics, the economy and media
> 
> There is a photo floating around social media of Prime Minister Trudeau's visit to the White House. In the centre stands a bloated President Trump, the wind blowing his elaborate straw mane upward, revealing where his painted-orange flesh meets what is left of his natural scalp. Next to Mr. Trump, his handsome Canadian counterpart Prime Minister Trudeau grins politely, looking like a well-aged boy-band member indulging a disgruntled fan.
> 
> Story continues below advertisement
> 
> It may seem petty to focus on physical appearance, but given that Mr. Trump selects his cabinet based on whether they "look the part" and has reportedly forced sexist dress codes upon his female staff, perhaps some pettiness is in order.
> 
> It was hard for Americans to look at Mr. Trudeau on Monday with anything but longing: not only to give our eyes a break from Agent Orange, but to remember what it is like to have a president who is eloquent, informed and has a grasp of the rule of law. One does not need to be a great fan of Mr. Trudeau; the fact that he is not Mr. Trump suffices for most. One can assume the Canadian Prime Minister will not promise to build a vanity wall between our countries, express enthusiasm for using nuclear weapons or garner support from white supremacists across the nation....


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...beandmail.com&campaign_id=A100&service=mobile


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The contrast is quite obvious.


Yep. Trump supports his country first. Trudeau offers Canada up on the globalist altar.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep. Trump supports his country first. Trudeau offers Canada up on the globalist altar.



What are the odds that you'd miss it again when it's staring you straight in the face? Trudeau garners respect, even from Trump. Not one ****ty tweet yet.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> What are the odds that you'd miss it again when it's staring you straight in the face? Trudeau garners respect, even from Trump. Not one ****ty tweet yet.


I already said around noon that Trudeau played it well--what more do you want?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I already said around noon that Trudeau played it well--what more do you want?



Well that's very kind of you. I was working around noon (ten my time) and must have missed it. I think the notion that Trump puts his country first is off, however. Trump puts Trump first. The rest is details.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I already said around noon that Trudeau played it well--what more do you want?


I agree. PM Trudeau did well in DC and, hopefully, Canada will be off of Pres. Trump's radar for now. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Looks like Gen. Flynn is going to resign. This was all of his own doing, do the Democrats and even Pres. Trump need not get any of the blame.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Looks like Gen. Flynn is going to resign. This was all of his own doing, do the Democrats and even Pres. Trump need not get any of the blame.


Very fair, Dr. G.--there is no indication that he is in a position to be "blackmailed" by the Russians, but he lied about his contact with the Russian ambassador, and am pleased to see that the admin is moving swiftly to replace him. 

One thing I find curious--there's a reference to "transcripts of Flynn's call." Who is transcribing these calls? The NSA?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Very fair, Dr. G.--there is no indication that he is in a position to be "blackmailed" by the Russians, but he lied about his contact with the Russian ambassador, and am pleased to see that the admin is moving swiftly to replace him.
> 
> One thing I find curious--there's a reference to "transcripts of Flynn's call." Who is transcribing these calls? The NSA?


I think that the Justice Dept. said that this was "a possibility", but I agree, the fact that he lied to Vice President Mike Pence and that Pence then went on TV to defend him was the final nail in the coffin. I don't agree with most of the views held by Pence, but he has the reputation of being the one honest person in the upper levels of the administration.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...eau-prime-minister-joe-trudeau-of-canada.html

“Yesterday the president set — had an incredibly productive set of meetings and discussions with Prime Minster Joe Trudeau of Canada,” he said, “focusing on our shared commitment to close co-operation in addressing both the challenges facing our two countries and the problems throughout the world. Our countries share a profound economic interest, with more than $2 billion in two-way trade flowing across our border every day.”


----------



## CubaMark

Honest mistake. Trump's cabinet probably prepped for his visit by watching this Molson's commercial a few times:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg[/ame]

.
*My name is JOE, and I AM CANADIAN!*

:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Honest mistake. Trump's cabinet probably prepped for his visit by watching this Molson's commercial a few times:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg
> 
> .
> *My name is JOE, and I AM CANADIAN!*
> 
> :lmao:


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Happy Valentine's day, mes amis


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Happy Valentine's day, mes amis


Pres. Trump would invade Canada and burn down the Parliament Building if these two ever had an affair. XX)


----------



## CubaMark

> Joe Trudeau ?The only parody of Sean Spicer better than Melissa McCarthy's is Sean Spicer's.
> 
> — Asha Ali (@ashaalis) February 14, 2017


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


PM Trudeau will be doing the next Molson Canadian "I am Joe" commercials.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The new commander in chief would like to wish you all a Happy Valentine's Day!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Clinton reminds us why we’re lucky she lost the election | New York Post

Yep, a good thing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So at what point do you Repub supporters say this is not acceptable? 












> Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence
> 
> February 14, 2017
> By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MARK MAZZETTI and MATT APUZZO
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.
> 
> American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.
> 
> The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
> 
> The Run-Up
> 
> The podcast that makes sense of the most delirious stretch of the 2016 campaign.
> But the intercepts alarmed American intelligence and law enforcement agencies, in part because of the amount of contact that was occurring while Mr. Trump was speaking glowingly about the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin. At one point last summer, Mr. Trump said at a campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public.
> 
> The officials said the intercepted communications were not limited to Trump campaign officials, and included other associates of Mr. Trump. On the Russian side, the contacts also included members of the government outside of the intelligence services, they said. All of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the continuing investigation is classified.
> 
> The officials said that one of the advisers picked up on the calls was Paul Manafort, who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman for several months last year and had worked as a political consultant in Ukraine. The officials declined to identify the other Trump associates on the calls.
> 
> The call logs and intercepted communications are part of a larger trove of information that the F.B.I. is sifting through as it investigates the links between Mr. Trump’s associates and the Russian government, as well as the hacking of the D.N.C., according to federal law enforcement officials. As part of its inquiry, the F.B.I. has obtained banking and travel records and conducted interviews, the officials said.
> 
> Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes, dismissed the officials’ accounts in a telephone interview on Tuesday. “This is absurd,” he said. “I have no idea what this is referring to. I have never knowingly spoken to Russian intelligence officers, and I have never been involved with anything to do with the Russian government or the Putin administration or any other issues under investigation today.”
> 
> He added, “It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”
> 
> Several of Mr. Trump’s associates, like Mr. Manafort, have done business in Russia. And it is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society. Law enforcement officials did not say to what extent the contacts might have been about business.
> 
> The officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, the identity of the Russian intelligence officials who participated, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians. It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.
> 
> 
> Interactive Feature | Get the Morning Briefing by Email What you need to know to start your day, delivered to your inbox Monday through Friday.
> 
> A report from American intelligence agencies that was made public in January concluded that the Russian government had intervened in the election in part to help Mr. Trump, but did not address whether any members of the Trump campaign had participated in the effort.
> 
> The intercepted calls are different from the wiretapped conversations last year between Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, and Sergey I. Kislyak, Russia’s ambassador to the United States. In those calls, which led to Mr. Flynn’s resignation on Monday night, the two men discussed sanctions that the Obama administration imposed on Russia in December.
> 
> But the cases are part of American intelligence and law enforcement agencies’ routine electronic surveillance of the communications of foreign officials.
> 
> The F.B.I. declined to comment. The White House also declined to comment Tuesday night, but earlier in the day, the press secretary, Sean Spicer, stood by Mr. Trump’s previous comments that nobody from his campaign had contact with Russian officials before the election.
> 
> “There’s nothing that would conclude me that anything different has changed with respect to that time period,” Mr. Spicer said in response to a question.
> 
> Two days after the election in November, Sergei A. Ryabkov, the deputy Russian foreign minister, said “there were contacts” during the campaign between Russian officials and Mr. Trump’s team.
> 
> “Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Mr. Ryabkov told Russia’s Interfax news agency.
> 
> The Trump transition team denied Mr. Ryabkov’s statement. “This is not accurate,” Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, said at the time.
> 
> The National Security Agency, which monitors the communications of foreign intelligence services, initially captured the calls between Mr. Trump’s associates and the Russians as part of routine foreign surveillance. After that, the F.B.I. asked the N.S.A. to collect as much information as possible about the Russian operatives on the phone calls, and to search through troves of previous intercepted communications that had not been analyzed.
> 
> The F.B.I. has closely examined at least three other people close to Mr. Trump, although it is unclear if their calls were intercepted. They are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign; Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative; and Mr. Flynn.
> 
> All of the men have strongly denied that they had any improper contacts with Russian officials.
> 
> As part of the inquiry, the F.B.I. is also trying to assess the credibility of the information contained in a dossier that was given to the bureau last year by a former British intelligence operative. The dossier contained a raft of allegations of a broad conspiracy between Mr. Trump, his associates and the Russian government. It also included unsubstantiated claims that the Russians had embarrassing videos that could be used to blackmail Mr. Trump.
> 
> The F.B.I. has spent several months investigating the leads in the dossier, but has yet to confirm any of its most explosive claims.
> 
> 
> Interactive Feature | Got a confidential news tip?
> 
> Senior F.B.I. officials believe that the former British intelligence officer who compiled the dossier, Christopher Steele, has a credible track record, and he briefed investigators last year about how he obtained the information. One American law enforcement official said that F.B.I. agents had made contact with some of Mr. Steele’s sources.
> 
> The agency’s investigation of Mr. Manafort began last spring as an outgrowth of a criminal investigation into his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine and for the country’s former president, Viktor F. Yanukovych. It has focused on why he was in such close contact with Russian and Ukrainian intelligence officials.
> 
> The bureau did not have enough evidence to obtain a warrant for a wiretap of Mr. Manafort’s communications, but it had the N.S.A. scrutinize the communications of Ukrainian officials he had met.
> 
> The F.B.I. investigation is proceeding at the same time that separate investigations into Russian interference in the election are gaining momentum on Capitol Hill. Those investigations, by the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, are examining not only the Russian hacking but also any contacts that Mr. Trump’s team had with Russian officials during the campaign.
> 
> On Tuesday, top Republican lawmakers said that Mr. Flynn should be one focus of the investigation, and that he should be called to testify before Congress. Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, said the news about Mr. Flynn underscored “how many questions still remain unanswered to the American people more than three months after Election Day, including who was aware of what, and when.”
> 
> Mr. Warner said Mr. Flynn’s resignation would not stop the committee “from continuing to investigate General Flynn, or any other campaign official who may have had inappropriate and improper contacts with Russian officials prior to the election.”
> 
> Correction: February 14, 2017
> 
> An earlier version of this article misstated the number of people (in addition to Paul Manafort) whom the F.B.I. has examined. It is at least three, not at least four.


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...d=fb-share&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com


----------



## Macfury

So what is it that you think Trump's administration did wrong, Freddie?


----------



## Dr.G.

"So at what point do you Repub supporters say this is not acceptable?" I would not worry as much about the "supporters" as I would about the Republicans in Congress that are anti-Russian. This is starting to sound like the early days of Watergate. Once Nixon lost the support of his own party he chose to resign rather than to be impeached. We shall see how this plays out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So what is it that you think Trump's administration did wrong, Freddie?



In a word? Everything. In a sentence? Let themselves be manipulated by a foreign power and acting not in the best interests of the USA. Normally, this would be called treason. Buy in an age of alternative facts, who knows.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> In a word? Everything. In a sentence? Let themselves be manipulated by a foreign power and acting not in the best interests of the USA. Normally, this would be called treason. Buy in an age of alternative facts, who knows.


That's not what the article says.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's not what the article says.



And? You didn't ask for a précis of the article. Based on this article and many many others I've been trying to keep up with, this is a distillation of what I've learned so far. This administration is going down in flames because it is in way over its head. 

Why don't you tell what you think the article says and what you learned from it.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And? You didn't ask for a précis of the article. Based on this article and many many others I've been trying to keep up with, this is a distillation of what I've learned so far. This administration is going down in flames because it is in way over its head.
> 
> Why don't you tell what you think the article says and what you learned from it.


The article is just part of an Establishment/Media fake news narrative on Russian hacking, etc. It essentially says nothing. It's just designed to keep the word "Russian" in the news.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The article is just part of an Establishment/Media fake news narrative on Russian hacking, etc. It essentially says nothing. It's just designed to keep the word "Russian" in the news.



Then clearly you didn't read the article if that's your summary. Or perhaps you just skipped ahead to the opinion part.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Then clearly you didn't read the article if that's your summary. Or perhaps you just skipped ahead to the opinion part.


There's little of substance in the article. Anyone familiar with current events could see through the innuendo. If you're an Establishment type, this looks like real news.


----------



## HowEver

It's worth investigating though. At the very least the admitted contact is enough to warrant that.


----------



## Macfury

HowEver said:


> It's worth investigating though. At the very least the admitted contact is enough to warrant that.


Contact with Russia is not a problem. See the Obama administration during its formative period prior to taking office.

Apparently, e-mailing Top Secret information over an unsecure server for your personal convenience is also not very serious--even when foreign governments including Russia possess all of Hillary's e-mails.


----------



## Dr.G.

Andrew Puzder withdraws as a labor secretary nominee - CNNPolitics.com

A wise decision. If you don't like the average working person, and can't support some of his/her interests, maybe Sect. of Labor is not your ideal job. Now, if only Sect. of Education DeVoss came to the same conclusion.


----------



## Dr.G.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/presidential-order-succession-case-article-1.2973129

A strange article. The NY Daily News supported Richard Nixon until the end. They were an early Trump supporter and are not part of the "fake news" group. Strange that they should publish this article.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> What, specifically, did Oliver say that you disagree with?


 His entire take on anything he thinks he knows about.


----------



## SINC

This pretty much destroys Obama and any legacy he thought he had.

BOOM! Ted Cruz exposes the media with one tweet! – The Right Scoop

And before anyone cries about the source, watch the video.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> His entire take on anything he thinks he knows about.


Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


True ........... but Pres. Trump does not lie ............ he simply presents "alternative facts" that you can believe in or be branded some things I shall not repeat here in ehMacLand, given it is a family site. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Steve Bannon 'livid' with Breitbart over Priebus report - Feb. 15, 2017

Bannon is "livid" with Breitbart News.   

Are they now in the category of "fake news"???????????????????????????


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> True ........... but Pres. Trump does not lie ............ he simply presents "alternative facts" that you can believe in or be branded some things I shall not repeat here in ehMacLand, given it is a family site. Paix, mon ami.


IMHO, the Clinton impeachment was all about sex. This pent-up, puritanical obsession that Republicans in general have about sex. A titillating scandal that had nothing to do with national security, but something easily whipped up into a moral fury, signifying nothing.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> IMHO, the Clinton impeachment was all about sex. This pent-up, puritanical obsession that Republicans in general have about sex. A titillating scandal that had nothing to do with national security, but something easily whipped up into a moral fury, signifying nothing.


Well, times have changed now. So long as you present "alternative facts" you can never be accused of lies. If you believe something is true, they it is true in Trump's America. Now, if Pres. Trump has an affair with someone in the White House and divorces Melania, then this might be a scandal that upsets some people.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Clinton told hundreds of lies. The one lie that could not be forgiven was in testimony to a Grand Jury. However, he was not impeached over "just one lie" but also obstruction of justice.

No charge for the history lesson.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> This pretty much destroys Obama and any legacy he thought he had.
> 
> BOOM! Ted Cruz exposes the media with one tweet! – The Right Scoop
> 
> And before anyone cries about the source, watch the video.


I kept thinking about that video for the past few months


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Clinton told hundreds of lies. The one lie that could not be forgiven was in testimony to a Grand Jury. However, he was not impeached over "just one lie" but also obstruction of justice.
> 
> 
> 
> No charge for the history lesson.



Which is the the greater lie? Not telling the truth about an extramarital affair, or telling the nation the justification for a decade long "pre-emotive strike" is the presence of weapons of mass destruction (which were never found), resulting in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Which is the the greater lie? Not telling the truth about an extramarital affair, or telling the nation the justification for a decade long "pre-emotive strike" is the presence of weapons of mass destruction (which were never found), resulting in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians?


You decide which of Bill's lies regarding weapons of mass destruction was worse:



> In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now - a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers, or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed. If we fail to respond today, Saddam, and all those who would follow in his footsteps, will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council, and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.
> 
> President Bill Clinton - Remarks at the Pentagon , February 17, 1998.





> Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them, not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq. The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.
> 
> _President Bill Clinton - Remarks at the White House , December 16, 1998._


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You decide which of Bill's lies regarding weapons of mass destruction was worse:



Can't answer a fairly simple question?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Can't answer a fairly simple question?


Yep. I don't believe that Clinton intentionally misled the public on WMDs in Iraq. So lying to a Grand Jury was worse.


----------



## SINC

Just in case you were wondering, here’s the presidential order of succession.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## SINC

*There's a term for presidents like Trump.
Probably not two terms, though.*


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> *There's a term for presidents like Trump.
> Probably not two terms, though.*


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

An amazing moment in history: Donald Trump's press conference - CNNPolitics.com

Well, this explains a great deal. The Russian situation is fake news. The chaos in the administration is fake news. The problems with the process of "advise and consent" in the US Senate is all fake news. And, at the very bottom of all of this is that Pres. Obama is to blame. Now is makes perfect sense. At least he did not implicate Pres. Bush in any way. So, case closed.

Finally, we can now see him getting on with the business of running America. And, as Pres. Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business."

Good to see that CNN is trying to change it's "faux news" image and just reporting the facts, be they real or alternative.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> An amazing moment in history: Donald Trump's press conference - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Well, this explains a great deal. The Russian situation is fake news. The chaos in the administration is fake news. The problems with the process of "advise and consent" in the US Senate is all fake news. And, at the very bottom of all of this is that Pres. Obama is to blame. Now is makes perfect sense. At least he did not implicate Pres. Bush in any way. So, case closed.
> 
> Finally, we can now see him getting on with the business of running America. And, as Pres. Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business."
> 
> Good to see that CNN is trying to change it's "faux news" image and just reporting the facts, be they real or alternative.


It just has to make you shake your head in disbelief...


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> At least he did not implicate Pres. Bush in any way.


Nope, though Obama may still be on Bush's case having relied on that tactic for eight years.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> It just has to make you shake your head in disbelief...


True. How could we have all been that stupid than to doubt Pres. Trump's ability go govern????? I mean, he went bankrupt four times and still survived to remain a businessman. Granted, he had to stiff contractors and get around paying income tax, but it goes with the territory. Luckily, he did not get angered over PM Trudeau's visit and declare that there would be a wall built on the US/Canadian border.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nope, though Obama may still be on Bush's case having relied on that tactic for eight years.


True. Pres. Bush handed Pres. Obama a failing economy and an economic crisis. Pres. Obama handed Pres. Trump a more robust economy. Now with his economic play, the stock markets are booming to all time highs (for now). Excelsior.

Chaos is order ................. war is peace ............... “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” “Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” “Sanity is not statistical.” 

Chaos in the Trump administration is actually order ................. Long Live Big Brother!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

Today's lesson... cognitive dissonance!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Today's lesson... cognitive dissonance!


Good point, mon ami. The consistency of the chaos in the Trump administration is meant to keep everyone guessing ..................... and being thankful that we are still here. Of course, Putin and the Russians might have plans to throw off this sense of equilibrium. 

Let the "fake media" try to prevent alternative paradigms for this "finely tuned machine" (Pres. Trump's words) to subvert rationality. We know what we see and we see what we know. 

No confusion here. Have you considered leaving your libertarian beliefs behind and getting on board and accepting the Trumpublican party line?

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Keep reading the New York Times and watching CNN, Dr. G.




Dr.G. said:


> Good point, mon ami. The consistency of the chaos in the Trump administration is meant to keep everyone guessing ..................... and being thankful that we are still here. Of course, Putin and the Russians might have plans to throw off this sense of equilibrium.
> 
> Let the "fake media" try to prevent alternative paradigms for this "finely tuned machine" (Pres. Trump's words) to subvert rationality. We know what we see and we see what we know.
> 
> No confusion here. Have you considered leaving your libertarian beliefs behind and getting on board and accepting the Trumpublican party line?
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Keep reading the New York Times and watching CNN, Dr. G.


They just present "fake news". I have started to watch only Fox News. I am reading some of what Frederick Douglass feels about the Trump administration's views about the inner cities.


----------



## screature

*Fake News according to Trump and supporters*

Donald Trump On Twitter - Hear From Trump Himself‎


Donald Trump: 'The leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake'

Media escalate Trump-Russia reporting as he rips 'fake news' conspiracies


'Very Fake News': Pres. Trump Questioned on Intel Leaks by CNN's Acosta 


Trump Attacked The Media For Running "Fake News" During A Combative News Conference

'Morning Joe' Shreds Trump's 'Fake News' Answer for Flynn Fallout: 'You Keep Lying, We'll Keep Reporting About It'


Trump rails against ‘fake news media,’ leaks from intelligence community 


Trump Defends Mike Flynn, Blasts ‘Fake News’ and Leaks

'Russia is fake news': Trump bashes media, says what Flynn did 'wasn't wrong'

So the question is who produces real news according to Trump? Only those who agree with him apparently, and who are they? 

There must be a conspiracy. MSM are out to get him! Just listen to podcasts of his supporters, they will tell you the truth! All news reported about Trump if it is not positive is fake news reported by fake journalists and fake news outlets, no matter how big or small. It is all fake.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep. I don't believe that Clinton intentionally misled the public on WMDs in Iraq. So lying to a Grand Jury was worse.



And how about Bush and Cheney? You know, the o we who actually authorized the pre-emptive strike? Maybe stop trying to evade the question.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Donald Trump On Twitter - Hear From Trump Himself‎
> 
> 
> Donald Trump: 'The leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake'
> 
> Media escalate Trump-Russia reporting as he rips 'fake news' conspiracies
> 
> 
> 'Very Fake News': Pres. Trump Questioned on Intel Leaks by CNN's Acosta
> 
> 
> Trump Attacked The Media For Running "Fake News" During A Combative News Conference
> 
> 'Morning Joe' Shreds Trump's 'Fake News' Answer for Flynn Fallout: 'You Keep Lying, We'll Keep Reporting About It'
> 
> 
> Trump rails against ‘fake news media,’ leaks from intelligence community
> 
> 
> Trump Defends Mike Flynn, Blasts ‘Fake News’ and Leaks
> 
> 'Russia is fake news': Trump bashes media, says what Flynn did 'wasn't wrong'
> 
> So the question is who produces real news according to Trump? Only those who agree with him apparently, and who are they?
> 
> There must be a conspiracy. MSM are out to get him! Just listen to podcasts of his supporters, they will tell you the truth! All news reported about Trump if it is not positive is fake news reported by fake journalists and fake news outlets, no matter how big or small. It is all fake.


Now you are seeing the light, mon ami, and getting with the program. If you tell the truth, it is false. If you don't support Pres. Trump then you are not part of the team. If you are not part of the team, you are outside of the "truth squad". Positive news re Pres. Trump, regardless of the source, if real news ................ anything else is fake news. 

Pres. Trump is a believer of Festivus and has undertaken the "airing of grievances".


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Now you are seeing the light, mon ami, and getting with the program. If you tell the truth, it is false. If you don't support Pres. Trump then you are not part of the team. If you are not part of the team, you are outside of the "truth squad". Positive news re Pres. Trump, regardless of the source, if real news ................ anything else is fake news.
> 
> Pres. Trump is a believer of Festivus and has undertaken the "airing of grievances".


Hallelujah! Truth be told!


----------



## screature

Too bad Ross Perot was not the Republican candidate for the recent election, he would have been a much better choice.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True. How could we have all been that stupid than to doubt Pres. Trump's ability go govern????? I mean, he went bankrupt four times and still survived to remain a businessman. Granted, he had to stiff contractors and get around paying income tax, but it goes with the territory. Luckily, he did not get angered over PM Trudeau's visit and declare that there would be a wall built on the US/Canadian border.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



Better not to build a wall. Easier to simply annex, I would say.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Hallelujah! Truth be told!


Praise the Lord .............. and pass Irving's new book -- "The World According to Trump".


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Better not to build a wall. Easier to simply annex, I would say.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Too bad Ross Perot was not the Republican candidate for the recent election, he would have been a much better choice.


Interesting. Perot vs Bernie Sanders ................. a most unique election.


----------



## Dr.G.

More faux news "Trump Claims Russia is Nonexistent Fake Country Made Up by Media."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> More faux news "Trump Claims Russia is Nonexistent Fake Country Made Up by Media."



And those globes—totally fake. Trump's country, the USA, is huge. It should be much bigger than what it looks like on a globe.


----------



## Macfury

I'll let you Establishment thinkers hash it all out!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I'll let you Establishment thinkers hash it all out!


You are so funny! You do not think the Donald is following an Establishment!!!???

You really do make me laugh! You would just rather the world be run by corporations rather than governments. That is it cut and dry, end of story.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> You are so funny! You do not think the Donald is following an Establishment!!!???
> 
> You really do make me laugh! You would just rather the world be run by corporations rather than governments. That is it cut and dry, end of story.


I believe that corporations gain their power through collusion with government. I would be less worried about them if government were not powerful enough to empower them.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *I believe that corporations gain their power through collusion with government. *I would be less worried about them if government were not powerful enough to empower them.


Really? So then why do you support Trump? Do you really think that he has any interest in making government less powerful to empower corporations?

Once again you are expressing pretzel logic and make no sense at all.

Just to add he did not run on any of the ideas that you are talking about. He ran on fear, hatred, racism, jingoism, protectionism and the list goes on and on...


----------



## CubaMark

*These conservatives seem to be doing the evil villain rubbing of hands, as they contemplate the day they can turn a tidy profit selling us the products we'll need to endure temperature extremes (air conditioners and arctic parkas) and personal bottles of oxygen... *  XX) :yikes:

*Trump Expected to Sign Executive Orders Hitting the EPA*

H. Sterling Burnett, a research fellow the Heartland Institute, which rejects the scientific consensus on climate change, says Trump could start by revisiting the Obama administration's efforts to calculate a "social cost of carbon"—and by forbidding its use to determine costs and benefits of government regulations. He also wants to see broader restrictions on how the EPA calculates costs and benefits. In particular, Burnett hopes Trump will prohibit the agency from the considering public health co-benefits of regulations—for example, attempts by the EPA to argue that limits on CO2 emissions from power plants also reduce emissions of other dangerous pollutants.

* * *​
For many conservatives, no EPA at all—or at least one that has no regulatory powers—is the best option. "I read the constitution of the United States, and the word environmental protection does not appear there," said Heartland's Burnett. "I don't see where it's sanctioned. I think it should go away." 

* * *​
...he's hopeful that the administration will move toward an EPA with "smaller budgets and a smaller mission, justified by the fact that you'll have fewer regulations.”​(MotherJones)​
The U.S. Constitution also didn't say anything about ending slavery until about 80 years after it was written, either. Originalists like Burnett are not only out of touch with the times, they're dangerous.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> *These conservatives seem to be doing the evil villain rubbing of hands, as they contemplate the day they can turn a tidy profit selling us the products we'll need to endure temperature extremes (air conditioners and arctic parkas) and personal bottles of oxygen... *  XX) :yikes:
> 
> *Trump Expected to Sign Executive Orders Hitting the EPA*
> 
> H. Sterling Burnett, a research fellow the Heartland Institute, which rejects the scientific consensus on climate change, says Trump could start by revisiting the Obama administration's efforts to calculate a "social cost of carbon"—and by forbidding its use to determine costs and benefits of government regulations. He also wants to see broader restrictions on how the EPA calculates costs and benefits. In particular, Burnett hopes Trump will prohibit the agency from the considering public health co-benefits of regulations—for example, attempts by the EPA to argue that limits on CO2 emissions from power plants also reduce emissions of other dangerous pollutants.
> 
> * * *​
> For many conservatives, no EPA at all—or at least one that has no regulatory powers—is the best option. "I read the constitution of the United States, and the word environmental protection does not appear there," said Heartland's Burnett. "I don't see where it's sanctioned. I think it should go away."
> 
> * * *​
> ...he's hopeful that the administration will move toward an EPA with "smaller budgets and a smaller mission, justified by the fact that you'll have fewer regulations.”​
> (MotherJones)


Well that is certainly an overstatement and fear mongering as well. Jesus!!! Why cannot people just talk reasonably and rationally without hyperbole? It would be a welcome change.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not trying to be provocative here. That's the lens through which you see Trump. It will appear to you as pretzel logic because you literally can't see him as anything short of a sort of fascist monster. It won't much help for me to describe why I preferred his victory.

The anti-Trump crowd needs to believe that half of voters deliberately elected a monster, or were so stupid that they elected a monster and did not know it. 



screature said:


> Really? So then why do you support Trump? Do you really think that he has any interest in making government less powerful to empower corporations?
> 
> Once again you are expressing pretzel logic and make no sense at all.
> 
> Just to add he did not run on any of the ideas that you are talking about. He ran on fear, hatred, racism, jingoism, protectionism and the list goes on and on...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm not trying to be provocative here. That's the lens through which you see Trump. It will appear to you as pretzel logic because you literally can't see him as anything short of a sort of fascist monster. It won't much help for me to describe why I preferred his victory.
> 
> 
> 
> The anti-Trump crowd needs to believe that half of voters deliberately elected a monster, or were so stupid that they elected a monster and did not know it.



Well they certainly did. I'll agree with you on that, whether you meant it or not.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well they certainly did. I'll agree with you on that, whether you meant it or not.


Yes. This is why you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *These conservatives seem to be doing the evil villain rubbing of hands, as they contemplate the day they can turn a tidy profit selling us the products we'll need to endure temperature extremes (air conditioners and arctic parkas) and personal bottles of oxygen... *  XX) :yikes:


This is one of the reasons I supported Trump's victory! This makes me very happy!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes. This is why you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.



You keep using that word. Last time I heard it much was 33 years ago in my first year Psychology courses. I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Source: https://twitter.com/ChareeOkee/status/832364626226642944/photo/1

Don't worry, kids: Uncle Donnie will explain it in a way even a two year old can understand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep using that word. Last time I heard it much was 33 years ago in my first year Psychology courses. I don't think it means what you think it means.


I guess your memories have faded, Freddie. Cognitive dissonance is creation of a false reality to help you adjust to a situation you did not like or expect. In this case, the catastrophic loss of Madame President. You can't adjust to the new information so you've created a crazy vision where half of voters are either pure evil or of severely substandard intelligence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is one of the reasons I supported Trump's victory! This makes me very happy!


Good to hear, Macfury. You felt the "bern" and now we all await to see how Pres. Trump's first 100 days compares to FDR's first 100 day. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I'm not trying to be provocative here. That's the lens through which you see Trump. It will appear to you as pretzel logic because you literally can't see him as anything short of a sort of fascist monster. *It won't much help for me to describe why I preferred his victory.*
> 
> The anti-Trump crowd needs to believe that half of voters deliberately elected a monster, or were so stupid that they elected a monster and did not know it.


Actually it would help to clarify a lot.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I guess your memories have faded, Freddie. Cognitive dissonance is creation of a false reality to help you adjust to a situation you did not like or expect. In this case, the catastrophic loss of Madame President. You can't adjust to the new information so you've created a crazy vision where half of voters are either pure evil or *of severely substandard intelligence.*


This is the US we are talking about and I saw plenty of interviews with people who were voting for him and why, so to me this seems about right.


----------



## SINC

While I have no great love for The Donald, I sense that in the long run, his presidency will bring change in the way politics are conducted in the US and perhaps even in our own country. Once he is gone and but a memory, I believe he will leave lessons for future presidents and changes to politics that will become the new norm. So regardless of what opinion anyone holds, not being able to see some benefit to the entire picture in the future has a clouded and overly emotional view of what is unfolding before them.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I guess your memories have faded, Freddie. Cognitive dissonance is creation of a false reality to help you adjust to a situation you did not like or expect. In this case, the catastrophic loss of Madame President. You can't adjust to the new information so you've created a crazy vision where half of voters are either pure evil or of severely substandard intelligence.


Actually your definition is incorrect:

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress (discomfort) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, when performing an action that contradicts those beliefs, ideas, and values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts existing beliefs, ideas, and values. 

Cognitive dissonance

So as Freddie says you are using the term incorrectly. There is no new information here, I don't know where you came up with that. There was a shift in the political landscape of the US, that is not new information, it is a new situation. Big difference!

I can't speak for Freddie but it has nothing to do with Hillary not winning it has to do with Trump winning. If the Democracts had a trained chimpanzee as their candidate I would still have preferred the trained chimp, as the chimp would be far less capable to do severe damage to the US and the world.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> This is the US we are talking about and I saw plenty of interviews with people who were voting for him and why, so to me this seems about right.


I saw plenty of people who wanted Hillary to be president, and they appeared to me to be unintelligent, self-entitled and greedy. However, I realize that it's impossible for half of voters to be unintelligent and greedy--therefore my view of things can not be entirely accurate.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> While I have no great love for The Donald, I sense that in the long run, *his presidency will bring change in the way politics are conducted in the US and perhaps even in our own country. Once he is gone and but a memory, I believe he will leave lessons for future presidents and changes to politics that will become the new norm. So regardless of what opinion anyone holds, not being able to see some benefit to the entire picture in the future has a clouded and overly emotional view of what is unfolding before them.*


I agree and completely disagree. Change absolutely, but beneficial, no way no how.


----------



## CubaMark

Sean Spicer Is A 'Melissa McCarthy Impersonator,' According To This Cheeky Toronto Paper

Toronto newspaper cheekily trolled White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer after he misspoke, calling Canada's Prime Minister "Joe Trudeau."

Spicer made the flub during his Tuesday morning press briefing, when he said, “Yesterday the president ... had an incredibly productive set of meetings and discussions with Prime Minister Joe Trudeau of Canada."

Toronto Metro's front page on Wednesday referred to Spicer as a "Melissa McCarthy impersonator," referencing the actress who parodies the communications director on "Saturday Night Live."​


----------



## screature

She was hilarious:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Saturday Night Live Video - Sean Spicer (Melissa McCarthy) Cold Open | Season 42 Episode 14 - GlobalTV.com


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> I agree and completely disagree. Change absolutely, but beneficial, no way no how.


Only time will tell, but consider for just a moment, that this resulted in total honesty in the future. Would that not be beneficial? Just asking.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> Only time will tell, but consider for just a moment, that this resulted in total honesty in the future. Would that not be beneficial? Just asking.


He isn't even being honest at all at this point in time. Honesty would be a good thing but we sure as hell aren't getting it from Trump now and most likely never will under his watch.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Actually your definition is incorrect:
> 
> 
> 
> In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress (discomfort) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, when performing an action that contradicts those beliefs, ideas, and values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts existing beliefs, ideas, and values.
> 
> 
> 
> Cognitive dissonance
> 
> 
> 
> So as Freddie says you are using the term incorrectly. There is no new information here, I don't know where you came up with that. There was a shift in the political landscape of the US, that is not new information, it is a new situation. Big difference!
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for Freddie but it has nothing to do with Hillary not winning it has to do with Trump winning. If the Democracts had a trained chimpanzee as their candidate I would still have preferred the trained chimp, as the chimp would be far less capable to do severe damage to the US and the world.



Yes, I believe you have it, good sir. That's how I remember cognitive dissonance, anyway. Two men say they're Jesus; one of 'em must be wrong.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes, I believe you have it, good sir. That's how I remember cognitive dissonance, anyway. Two men say they're Jesus; one of 'em must be wrong.


Interesting. Of course, both of them might be wrong ............... just as you and I are usually wrong on certain issues ........... such as the importance of the "social safety net". Still, we may be in the minority here in ehMacLand, but at least one of us has seen the light. Which one of us is on the right side????????????? 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

The missing part:


> This produces a feeling of discomfort *leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance etc.*


Cognitive Dissonance Theory | Simply Psychology

It's not necessarily an acceptance of reality, but a change that is made to reduce the discomfort.

I'm describing people like Freddie of holding two contradictory beliefs. These people thought they were among the intelligentsia who could see a Hillary Clinton victory as assured. The new information is the Trump victory and a reality they could not see coming. They have a choice of admitting they weren't so smart, or doubling down on their prior clever prescience about the future badness of Trump. This is resulting in the hysterical hallucinations of Trump as Hitler and his supporters as crazy and/or evil.



screature said:


> Actually your definition is incorrect:
> 
> In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress (discomfort) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, when performing an action that contradicts those beliefs, ideas, and values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts existing beliefs, ideas, and values.
> 
> Cognitive dissonance
> 
> So as Freddie says you are using the term incorrectly. There is no new information here, I don't know where you came up with that. There was a shift in the political landscape of the US, that is not new information, it is a new situation. Big difference!
> 
> I can't speak for Freddie but it has nothing to do with Hillary not winning it has to do with Trump winning. If the Democracts had a trained chimpanzee as their candidate I would still have preferred the trained chimp, as the chimp would be far less capable to do severe damage to the US and the world.


----------



## Macfury

As I've said before, Dr. G.--your version of the social safety net looks more like a hammock to me!



Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. Of course, both of them might be wrong ............... just as you and I are usually wrong on certain issues ........... such as the importance of the "social safety net". Still, we may be in the minority here in ehMacLand, but at least one of us has seen the light. Which one of us is on the right side?????????????
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes, I believe you have it, good sir. That's how I remember cognitive dissonance, anyway. Two men say they're Jesus; one of 'em must be wrong.


Well my analogy for it is this:

You believe in a god, it doesn't matter which one. And then there is irrefutable proof that any god does not exist, but you just keep believing anyway. That is cognitive dissonance.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The missing part:
> 
> 
> Cognitive Dissonance Theory | Simply Psychology
> 
> It's not necessarily an acceptance of reality, but a change that is made to reduce the discomfort.
> 
> I'm describing people like Freddie of holding two contradictory beliefs. These people thought they were among the intelligentsia who could see a Hillary Clinton victory as assured. The new information is the Trump victory and a reality they could not see coming. They have a choice of admitting they weren't so smart, or doubling down on their prior clever prescience about the future badness of Trump. This is resulting in the hysterical hallucinations of Trump as Hitler and his supporters as crazy and/or evil.


Oh my god man how far are you willing to stretch??? 





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> As I've said before, Dr. G.--your version of the social safety net looks more like a hammock to me!


Right on, mon ami. Let them sleep on the ground. It is not our responsibility for those that are homeless, hungry and hurting. We need to be strong and stand up for what is right. And for those who can't keep up, move over and let those on the way to the front make it to the top. Excelsior.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHmQT_7a2c[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

screature, just because you pulled the first definition you could find from Wikipedia doesn't mean you've cornered the market on the concept. I'm certainly not the first to see exactly this type of cognitive dissonance resulting from the election. But, whatever works for you, man!


----------



## Macfury

Scrooge came around to personal responsibility, not government programs.



Dr.G. said:


> Right on, mon ami. Let them sleep on the ground. It is not our responsibility for those that are homeless, hungry and hurting. We need to be strong and stand up for what is right. And for those who can't keep up, move over and let those on the way to the front make it to the top. Excelsior.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHmQT_7a2c


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Scrooge came around to personal responsibility, not government programs.


True. Luckily, he lived at a time when there was no income tax. Leave hard earned money in the hands of those who earned the money, even if it was from the sweat of others. Solidarity forever ............... for those who have made it to the top. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Luckily, he lived at a time when there was no income tax. Leave hard earned money in the hands of those who earned the money, even if it was from the sweat of others. Solidarity forever ............... for those who have made it to the top. Paix, mon ami.


There was an excise tax.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There was an excise tax.


Did not know this, Macfury. Damn government intervention. The US Libertarian Party has the right idea --

"We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs not required under the US Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the US Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, not raising taxes. " As well, they want to abolish the 16th Amendment.

No debt, no worry. That should be their slogan in 2020.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury, is the ON Libertarian Party very active and successfully in ON? ( Maybe I should have posted this in the Can. Political thread)

Tax Reform | Ontario Libertarian Party


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> He isn't even being honest at all at this point in time. Honesty would be a good thing but we sure as hell aren't getting it from Trump now and most likely never will under his watch.


No argument there, but you dispute there is no benefit for future honesty if he propels others to go there by his dishonesty?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, is the ON Libertarian Party very active and successfully in ON? ( Maybe I should have posted this in the Can. Political thread)
> 
> Tax Reform | Ontario Libertarian Party


I was involved on a minor level at one point. They seemed more interested in proving their point than winning seats. I donated some money once and never received a tax receipt. One odd thing--prior to the "permanent stamp" someone at the head office used to horde postage stamps which they felt retained their value above inflation. Circa 1982 I bought about $10 worth of 1950s stamps, unused, which I still have.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The missing part:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cognitive Dissonance Theory | Simply Psychology
> 
> 
> 
> It's not necessarily an acceptance of reality, but a change that is made to reduce the discomfort.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm describing people like Freddie of holding two contradictory beliefs. These people thought they were among the intelligentsia who could see a Hillary Clinton victory as assured. The new information is the Trump victory and a reality they could not see coming. They have a choice of admitting they weren't so smart, or doubling down on their prior clever prescience about the future badness of Trump. This is resulting in the hysterical hallucinations of Trump as Hitler and his supporters as crazy and/or evil.



Hillary was right; Trump does not have the temperament for the job. You can sing his praises all you want, but it would appear the cognitive dissonance is yours in failing to recognize just how out of touch and unprepared he is for the job of POTUS. Guy's about ready to blow a head gasket. Hillary called it. Remember Hillary? The one who actually won the popular vote by about 3 million votes cast?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hillary was right; Trump does not have the temperament for the job. You can sing his praises all you want, but it would appear the cognitive dissonance is yours in failing to recognize just how out of touch and unprepared he is for the job of POTUS. Guy's about ready to blow a head gasket. Hillary called it. Remember Hillary? The one who actually won the popular vote by about 3 million votes cast?


Hillary who?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I was involved on a minor level at one point. They seemed more interested in proving their point than winning seats. I donated some money once and never received a tax receipt. One odd thing--prior to the "permanent stamp" someone at the head office used to horde postage stamps which they felt retained their value above inflation. Circa 1982 I bought about $10 worth of 1950s stamps, unused, which I still have.


Interesting. As a stamp collector, I would say those stamps are worth something.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hillary who?


Ouch!! :lmao: "Feel the bern". Yes, it is about time to stop blaming Pres. Obama, Clinton, Sanders, et al and realize that Pres. Trump, for better or worse, is president. So, far, I think we are getting the worse. I shudder at what might happen at the sign of a real crisis, such as Russia invading a NATO country, Iran or N. Korea doing something violent to a neighbor, etc. We shall see.


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> He isn't even being honest at all at this point in time. Honesty would be a good thing but we sure as hell aren't getting it from Trump now and most likely never will under his watch.


More on the good that may come our way due to a Trump presidency:

Commentary: Warning to Canada’s governing elite – fix your relationships with voters or face political upheaval - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## Macfury

I agree in general. Government is the last place I look for help and when forced to deal with it, I am always less happy than when I started. But even an article like this suggests that people want their governments to deal with "global warming." Although some people believe in this crock, this is way down the list of important voter issues--it's an elitist power grab.




SINC said:


> More on the good that may come our way due to a Trump presidency:
> 
> Commentary: Warning to Canada’s governing elite – fix your relationships with voters or face political upheaval - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## Dr.G.

Amazing!!!! Pres. Trump seems to be on the verge of keeping his #1 promise during the campaign -- that of building the wall along the Mexican border. Fox News just reported that the Mexican President has just made a public statement -- “We agree to pay for The Wall if the deal includes returning Texas To Mexico.”  Pres. Trump could do this by executive order. So much for "Remember the Alamo". 

If everything said about Trump is "fake news," then who will give us "the truth?" In a Jan. 24 speech on the floor of the House, Representative Lamar Smith, Republican of Texas, gave us the answer. He described what he believed was the unfair way the national media was covering President Trump. And he ended with an admonition for his constituents: “Better to get your news directly from the president. In fact, it might be the only way to get the unvarnished truth.”

I wonder how Rep. Smith feels about the impending "trade" of Texas for The Wall?

So, would The Wall now have to be built at the Texas/Oklahoma border, as well as other states which border Texas??????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Hillary who?



Funny. Sadly, that will probably be her legacy too.


----------



## CubaMark

*So, what are the odds that the usual suspects in here will be as up in arms over this story as Hillary's deleted emails? Anybody know a really stupid bookie...?*

*Encrypted apps spark new questions for Trump-era workers*

The reported use of encrypted messaging apps by government workers is raising questions about whether the services evade scrutiny from their superiors and the public — or are even legal.

Trump administration staffers are reportedly communicating via an encrypted messaging app called Confide, the main feature of which is self-destructing messages.

Axios originally reported last week that top GOP operatives and aides in the administration have been using the app to communicate out of fear that they might be hacked and have their correspondence made public.

And The Washington Post reported this week that, amid the fallout of national security adviser Michael Flynn’s resignation, White House staffers are using Confide out of fear that President Trump is planning to crack down on leaks to the media.

House Republicans are also seizing on reports that federal workers are using encrypted messaging apps to avoid being monitored by their supervisors.
(The Hill)​
** * **​
*Donald Trump's Staff Caught Reportedly Deleting Messages To Avoid Federal Record Laws*

In the wake of Micheal Flynn’s resignation, several White House staffers have taken to using Confide in order to avoid arousing the suspicion of their supervisors. Beyond that, members of Congress have recently spoken out against government employees using Confide or similar apps.

The Hill has reported that House Science Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) and Rep. Darin LaHood (R-Ill.) wrote to the Environmental Protection Agency’s inspector general seeking an inquiry into the department’s use of the app. The letter argues that government employees were using the app to sidestep the federal government’s record requirements.
(Bipartisan Report)​


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> screature, just because you pulled the first definition you could find from Wikipedia doesn't mean you've cornered the market on the concept. I'm certainly not the first to see exactly this type of cognitive dissonance resulting from the election. But, whatever works for you, man!


The problem is that you don't understand the meaning of the term and are willing to apply it to situations which do not fit the meaning, but whatever works for you.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> No argument there, but you dispute there is no benefit for future honesty if he propels others to go there by his dishonesty?


Don please read what I posted.



> He isn't even being honest at all at this point in time. *Honesty would be a good thing but we sure as hell aren't getting it from Trump now and most likely never will under his watch.*


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> Don please read what I posted.


I did Steve, just used your quote on dishonesty to illustrate possibly more honesty.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> I did Steve, just used your quote on dishonesty to illustrate possibly more honesty.


Uh what? I did not say anything about dishonesty so I don't know where you are getting that from.

Let me put in simple terms: Lies/Dishonesty Bad, the Truth/Honesty Good.

I do not know how I could state it more clearly, just as I did before.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> Amazing!!!! Pres. Trump seems to be on the verge of keeping his #1 promise during the campaign -- that of building the wall along the Mexican border. Fox *News just reported that the Mexican President has just made a public statement -- “We agree to pay for The Wall if the deal includes returning Texas To Mexico.” :*D Pres. Trump could do this by executive order. So much for "Remember the Alamo".
> 
> If everything said about Trump is "fake news," then who will give us "the truth?" In a Jan. 24 speech on the floor of the House, Representative Lamar Smith, Republican of Texas, gave us the answer. He described what he believed was the unfair way the national media was covering President Trump. And he ended with an admonition for his constituents: “Better to get your news directly from the president. In fact, it might be the only way to get the unvarnished truth.”
> 
> I wonder how Rep. Smith feels about the impending "trade" of Texas for The Wall?
> 
> So, would The Wall now have to be built at the Texas/Oklahoma border, as well as other states which border Texas??????????


:lmao::lmao::lmao: Priceless if true. I just have the feel the need to add a few more. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## SINC

Yep, pretty much. 

Why Nobody Cares the President Is Lying

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...p_1=566271&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> Uh what? I did not say anything about dishonesty so I don't know where you are getting that from.
> 
> Let me put in simple terms: Lies/Dishonesty Bad, the Truth/Honesty Good.
> 
> I do not know how I could state it more clearly, just as I did before.


Which is exactly why I used your quote:



screature said:


> He isn't even being honest at all at this point in time. Honesty would be a good thing but we sure as hell aren't getting it from Trump now and most likely never will under his watch.


If that isn't about 'dishonesty' Steve, I don't know what is. It's a small point and we've wasted enough time on it. "Not being honest" is certainly meaning he is 'dishonest' without doubt.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> The problem is that you don't understand the meaning of the term and are willing to apply it to situations which do not fit the meaning, but whatever works for you.


Scot Adams does a better job of analyzing it than I could:

The Cognitive Dissonance Cluster Bomb | Scott Adams' Blog


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Yep, pretty much.
> 
> Why Nobody Cares the President Is Lying
> 
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...p_1=566271&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com





> "He is so overconfident and yet so logically unconvincing that my interpreter friends and I often joke that if we translated his words as they are, we would end up making ourselves sound stupid."


_—Japanese translator Chikako Tsuruta, who interprets Trump for CNN, ABC, and CBS_
(Doonesbury)​


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> :lmao::lmao::lmao: Priceless if true. I just have the feel the need to add a few more. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


Well, Faux News is saying it is true ............. but we shall have to wait for a Pres. Trump tweet .............. either "Remember the Alamo, Death before Dishonor" or "The stars are bright, on the wall so high, deep in the heart of Texas". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> :lmao::lmao::lmao: Priceless if true. I just have the feel the need to add a few more. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


Well, better to laugh more than to cry. Still, we all have to be vigilant. Paix, mon ami.

McCain: Dictators 'get started by suppressing free press' - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Because it really matters what Japanese translators think of US politics!



CubaMark said:


> _—Japanese translator Chikako Tsuruta, who interprets Trump for CNN, ABC, and CBS_
> (Doonesbury)​


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Scot Adams does a better job of analyzing it than I could:
> 
> The Cognitive Dissonance Cluster Bomb | Scott Adams' Blog


That's an accurate take on what appears to be going on with a lot of people (online, or discussion shows like Real Time). Maybe they're performing for dramatic effect, but it seemed like something more.


----------



## CubaMark

Yup. Best that you read it all, not just a pull-quote or two.... 

Exclusive: Classified Memo Tells Intelligence Analysts to Keep Trump's Daily Brief Short *| Mother Jones
*
M


----------



## Macfury

Seriously--this is news to you? He wants his reports to be succinct?



CubaMark said:


> Yup. Best that you read it all, not just a pull-quote or two....
> 
> Exclusive: Classified Memo Tells Intelligence Analysts to Keep Trump's Daily Brief Short *| Mother Jones
> *
> M


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Yup. Best that you read it all, not just a pull-quote or two....
> 
> Exclusive: Classified Memo Tells Intelligence Analysts to Keep Trump's Daily Brief Short *| Mother Jones
> *
> M


If it's classified how is we know what it said?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> If it's classified how is we know what it said?


Exactly. It's just like the fake classified document that said the admin was going to use the National Guard to deport illegal immigrants.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Exactly. It's just like the fake classified document that said the admin was going to use the National Guard to deport illegal immigrants.





> Keep it short and free of nuance—that is the new guidance that has recently circulated to some intelligence analysts who compile materials for the President's Daily Brief on security threats around the globe.
> 
> The classified guidance, which was reviewed by_ Mother Jones_, suggests that President Donald Trump's daily national security briefing contains far less information than the daily reports presented by the intelligence community to past presidents—and about a quarter of the information President Barack Obama received.





> The guidance states that analysts should only include facts that support their analyses, and it explains that topics presented in the PDB will not be covered from different perspectives in separate briefings. That means that dissenting or conflicting views might not be presented to Trump. Obama's PDB did include dissenting information, when appropriate, according to a former top CIA official with direct knowledge of the PDB.


Take from it what you will. However... it's rather disturbing that people who view something which conflicts with their _beliefs_ can get away with screaming "Fake News!" and expect it to evaporate.

_Mother Jones_ is at least one of the few remaining news organizations that does actual _journalism_. If that doesn't jibe with your worldview, well, I'm sorry that reality has a liberal bias..... :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Yup. Best that you read it all, not just a pull-quote or two....
> 
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Classified Memo Tells Intelligence Analysts to Keep Trump's Daily Brief Short *| Mother Jones
> 
> *
> 
> M




That's true. I read in the Onion that any report longer than 7 letters and he loses his concentration.


----------



## Beej

*On the ongoing reform movement in the Democrat party*

This is early, but looks like it is building.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1bGGwr7dQ0[/ame]

Seems like, just as the Republicans never fully grappled with the Tea Party, the Democrats are avoiding change. I don't see this ending well for them, but change will happen, and delaying it for another two or four years will just make the change more abrupt and messy (see Trump).


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Take from it what you will. However... it's rather disturbing that people who view something which conflicts with their _beliefs_ can get away with screaming "Fake News!" and expect it to evaporate.
> 
> _Mother Jones_ is at least one of the few remaining news organizations that does actual _journalism_. If that doesn't jibe with your worldview, well, I'm sorry that reality has a liberal bias..... :lmao:


It conflicts with logic, not beliefs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

See, the problem with telling lies and making ****e up is that it can be fact checked. And once you lose credibility, you really don't have anything left.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> See, the problem with telling lies and making ****e up is that it can be fact checked. And once you lose credibility, you really don't have anything left.


"Lies, damned lies, and statistics". Had there not been 3 million illegal votes in California, 2 million illegal votes in New York State, and 1313 illegal votes in Vermont, Trump would have won all of these states and improved upon his victory. Get with the program, Frank. Remember, social media sites are being monitored and if you want to go into the US at any time, then these ehMacLand postings will either be cause to have you turned away at the border .............. or worse, to be allowed into the US and then detained .................. and sent to Room 101 for "re-education". Bonne chance, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". Had there not been 3 million illegal votes in California, 2 million illegal votes in New York State, and 1313 illegal votes in Vermont, Trump would have won all of these states and improved upon his victory. Get with the program, Frank. Remember, social media sites are being monitored and if you want to go into the US at any time, then these ehMacLand postings will either be cause to have you turned away at the border .............. or worse, to be allowed into the US and then detained .................. and sent to Room 101 for "re-education". Bonne chance, mon ami. Paix.



Rats are so cute tho. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Rats are so cute tho.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


XX)

Well, they will find something that you truly fear, and then you will betray your progressive views.

Long Live Big Brother!!


----------



## Rps

Guys, Trump is a big picture guy...not detail. Everyone just sends to take a chill pill and let the guy try to do his job. I'm not a supporter but will all the noise going on you won't be able to hear when something truly important comes along. So let's everyone find their quiet place.


----------



## eMacMan

Whether they support or counter my personal views, I view information from "leaked classified documents" with a very healthy dose of skepticism. 

When such documents are truly leaked, the intelligence community identifies the culprit within minutes of publication. More often than not they are forced to flee the country, killed, or charged with treason. 

When there are no immediate severe repercussions that is a very good indicator that the CIA or FBI or some other acronym leaked the documents themselves and the information is probably at least as corrupt as the organization itself.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> , they will find something that you truly fear, and then you will betray your progressive views.


Big Brother _WAS_ the Progressive!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Big Brother _WAS_ the Progressive!


True. In the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth in Oceania, this is so. The Party has just released the 10th edition of the Newspeak Dictionary, with the intention of reducing the words to make people be limited to express any feeling against the Party. Therefore, a term such as "totalitarian dictatorship" is replaced by the term "a progressive regime". 

Long Live Big Brother.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Big Brother _WAS_ the Progressive!


If Big Brother was the progressive, what does that make me? You? Bernie Sanders? Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Big Brother _WAS_ the Progressive!



I believe you have that exactly opposite there, my double-speaking friend.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe you have that exactly opposite there, my double-speaking friend.


That's the whole idea, Frank. Don't tell me that you are one of those who follows the beliefs of Emmanuel Goldstein and The Brotherhood???? And I thought that we were friends .................... 

Long Live Big Brother.


----------



## Dr.G.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took to Twitter to take a jab at President Donald Trump after a San Francisco appeals court of three judges unanimously ruled to not reinstate his controversial travel ban.

The former Democratic nominee tweeted “3-0,” citing the unanimous call made by the judges.

President Trump also took to Twitter to express his outrage at the decision.

“SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!” Trump tweeted in all caps.

It shall not be long before we start to hear "Lock her up .......... lock her up" at his rallies. We shall see.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took to Twitter to take a jab at President Donald Trump


I see the high road is completely off the table at this point. Oh well. Was nice, in theory.


----------



## CubaMark

CNN has never been my go-to source for accurate coverage, but you have to give props to Kate Bolduan for not letting this Trumpster off the hook with his bull****...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgoju5ECE1g[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Carl Bernstein: Trump's attacks on the press 'more treacherous' than Nixon's - Feb. 19, 2017

Limbaugh on the news media: 'They're enemies of Trump' - Feb. 19, 2017

Reminds me of the old TV show, "Who do you trust?" (It should have been 'Whom do you trust', but why split hairs).


----------



## Dr.G.

Sweden stood with us after the Bowling Green Massacre and now we must stand with Sweden.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Sweden stood with us after the Bowling Green Massacre and now we must stand with Sweden.


Man, that's never gonna get old... :lmao:


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Reminds me of the old TV show, "Who do you trust?" (It should have been 'Whom do you trust', but why split hairs).


Keep splitting those hairs. Otherwise, we'll devolve into text message/twitter English. That road leads to lol btfo imma say ur rekt. Smh.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Man, that's never gonna get old... :lmao:


Good one, Mark. Still, they have ignored the Halifax Riots that spilled over to the Looting of Lunenburg. I would have thought that PM Trudeau would have mentioned it to Pres. Trump during their visit. We stand with Nova Scotia.


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> Keep splitting those hairs. Otherwise, we'll devolve into text message/twitter English. That road leads to lol btfo imma say ur rekt. Smh.


So very true, Beej. Sadly, the English language is slipping away re grammar. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> So very true, Beej. Sadly, the English language is slipping away re grammar. Paix, mon ami.


It does not slip away if defended:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVuQi4gdtk[/ame]

Yes, I get the English v Scottish thing. beejacon


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> It does not slip away if defended:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVuQi4gdtk
> 
> Yes, I get the English v Scottish thing. beejacon


True. Death before Dishonor (spelled the correct way  ). Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

'Fox News Sunday' Stuns America & Formally Denounces Donald Trump (VIDEO)

Chris Wallace will soon be fired over these comments.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> 'Fox News Sunday' Stuns America & Formally Denounces Donald Trump (VIDEO)
> 
> Chris Wallace will soon be fired over these comments.


The media and the establishment have been in bed with each other for decades. Their power structure is being dismantled and of course they're upset to be stripped bare in front of the public.

Trump is not legislating against them--he is simply calling them out, so all is well.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The media and the establishment have been in bed with each other for decades. Their power structure is being dismantled and of course they're upset to be stripped bare in front of the public.
> 
> Trump is not legislating against them--he is simply calling them out, so all is well.


All will not be "well" until the First Amendment protections of a "free press" are done away with. The press should not be "free" to be anti-Trump. There should be just one national newspaper in the US, published by the US government, with Steve Bannon as the editor. Call it "Truth" ............. or "Pravda" in Russian. This way, there would not be any "fake media" stories, or media lies and anti-Trump news. 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Next should come the "freedom of speech" clause. You will be free to speak and think, so long as they are pro-Trump thoughts. You may "peacefully assemble" at any and all pro-Trump rallies. Religion????????? That might prove difficult.

As for the Second Amendment, keep it as it is with no changes.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I'm curious--when Obama used to call out Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, why was there no outcry from the "progressive" corner?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm curious--when Obama used to call out Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, why was there no outcry from the "progressive" corner?


They were asleep at the switch. Thus, the massive Trump victory last Nov. This will lay the foundation for an ever bigger win in 2020, and then comes the repeal of the 22nd Amendment. This will pave the way for a Trump dynasty that will surpass the 13+ years FDR served as president. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump was just vindicated over his comments about "terrorist attacks in Sweden". The PM of Sweden did say that troops were called out this weekend ............... to help out with stranded motorists after very bad weather throughout the country. No terrorists ....... just lots of snow.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Trump was just vindicated over his comments about "terrorist attacks in Sweden". The PM of Sweden did say that troops were called out this weekend ............... to help out with stranded motorists after very bad weather throughout the country. No terrorists ....... just lots of snow.



Too much snow can be very terrorizing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Too much snow can be very terrorizing.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Trump was referring to TV report on Swedish migrant violence that had aired on Friday, not an actual incident occurring on Friday.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump was referring to TV report on Swedish migrant violence that had aired on Friday, not an actual incident occurring on Friday.



That may have been what he meant, but it isn't what he said. The problem with Trump is you have to be a mind reader to infer what he means. If the entire population is misunderstanding you, perhaps you need to improve your communication skills. As a bull****e artist, he really needs to work on nuance.


----------



## Macfury

He certainly clarified long before your posts.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That may have been what he meant, but it isn't what he said. The problem with Trump is you have to be a mind reader to infer what he means. If the entire population is misunderstanding you, perhaps you need to improve your communication skills. As a bull****e artist, he really needs to work on nuance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He certainly clarified long before your posts.



When did he clarify? Please find the exact tweet where he clarified what you think he meant. You're defending an idiot, you realize.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> He certainly clarified long before your posts.


His "clarification" appeared at 3:57pm on Sunday afternoon, FYI.


Not that long ago certain people in here took issue with me calling out the bull**** that Fox "News" vomits onto the airwaves, usually with the caveat "I don't watch it, and I never heard of it until you posted it here", implying that Fox doesn't have enough of a viewership to make it worth worrying about.

Well, amigos, given that the President of the United States of America apparently has a penchant for watching and then regurgitating what he sees on Fox as fact, perhaps now you can appreciate our concern....

* * *

*Donald Trump admits his 'Sweden attack' comments were based on debunked Fox News report*

Donald Trump sparked no small number of raised eyebrows - along with a flurry of sarcastic comments - when he suggested something ominous had happened "last night in Sweden”.

After Mr Trump made the remarks at a rally in Florida, everyone from Sweden’s former prime minister, weighed in to point out that nothing had averse had happened. “What has he been smoking?” pondered Carl Bildt.

“We’ve got to keep our country safe,” Mr Trump had told his supporters. 

* * *​
Mr Trump may, not for the first time, been referring to something he had watched on Fox News. Business Times pointed to a segment on anchor Tucker Carlson’s show on Friday night, which included a clip from a new film by Ami Horowitz claiming to document alleged violence committed by refugees in Sweden.
(Independent UK)​
* * *

*Also of note* - the two Swedish police officers interviewed in Horowitz's "documentary" are aghast at the con job that was pulled on them:

The controversial segment from a film by filmmaker Ami Horowitz, which was shown on Fox News on Friday and claimed immigration had led to a rise in crime in Sweden, made headlines after Trump (much to the surprise of Swedes) used the Nordic country as a cautionary tale in a speech on Saturday.

But two Stockholm-based police officers featured in the clip, talking about crime and the accessibility of weapons, have sharply criticized how they were portrayed and how their quotes were used in the interview.

"I don't understand why we are part of the segment. The interview was about something completely different to what Fox News and Horowitz were talking about," one of the police officers, Anders Göranzon, told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper on Monday. "It was supposed to be about crime in high risk areas. Areas with high crime rates. There wasn't any focus on migration or immigration."

He said neither he nor his colleague Jacob Ekström recognized the image painted of Sweden in the report, which has been criticized in Sweden for being riddled with inaccuracies and false claims.

"We don't stand behind it. It shocked us. He has edited the answers. We were answering completely different questions in the interview. This is bad journalism," Göranzon told Dagens Nyheter, which said it had attempted to contact Horowitz for a comment.
(TheLocal.se)​
*So I'm left wondering if y'all would consider Horowitz' film and the FoxNews report on it to be what one might call "Fake News"?*

:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> When did he clarify? Please find the exact tweet where he clarified what you think he meant. You're defending an idiot, you realize.


You're right - his tweet only explained where he got the idea in his head. It didn't delve into the inaccuracies of Horowitz' film. He also didn't address how his own irresponsibleness confused an incident "last night' in Sweden and a so-called documentary that discussed alleged incidents over several years.

But those are just details. Donald is a big-picture kinda guy. Details are for chumps.


XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You're right - his tweet only explained where he got the idea in his head. It didn't delve into the inaccuracies of Horowitz' film. He also didn't address how his own irresponsibleness confused an incident "last night' in Sweden and a so-called documentary that discussed alleged incidents over several years.
> 
> 
> 
> But those are just details. Donald is a big-picture kinda guy. Details are for chumps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XX)



When Donald makes a mistake, he does not admit it—ever—he just doubles down instead. Perhaps he is erroneously adopting the technique of the jazz musician; if you make a mistake, play it twice.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> But those are just details. Donald is a big-picture kinda guy. Details are for chumps.


On that note, I hope Trump's blundering does not dissuade people from discussing the details on problems with Sweden's refugee policy. There are lessons for Canada in those uncomfortable details.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> His "clarification" appeared at 3:57pm on Sunday afternoon, FYI.


I have no idea if the Horowitz film is correct--however, Sweden does have a big immigration problem.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

Trump picks Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster as new national security adviser - CNNPolitics.com

Finally a selection by Pres. Trump that I can support. I have read excerpts from his book “Dereliction of Duty: Johnson, McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led to Vietnam”. In the book, McMaster wrote: “The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C.”


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> When Donald makes a mistake, he does not admit it—ever—he just doubles down instead. Perhaps he is erroneously adopting the technique of the jazz musician; if you make a mistake, play it twice.


Geez, just like someone we all know here, musician and all, isn't it?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Trump picks Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster as new national security adviser - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Finally a selection by Pres. Trump that I can support. I have read excerpts from his book “Dereliction of Duty: Johnson, McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led to Vietnam”. In the book, McMaster wrote: “The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C.”


At last we agree!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Exactly. But since his Holy Donaldness is the commander in chief, whatever he says shall be taken as the Truth. Welcome to 1984.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> At last we agree!


Admit it ............ we agree on a great many things. Still, hopefully his selection will be helpful in keeping Bannon in check .......... somewhat. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. But since his Holy Donaldness is the commander in chief, whatever he says shall be taken as the Truth. Welcome to 1984.


Long Live Big Brother.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Long Live Big Brother.


And his conservative/libertarian nemesis Goldstein.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Oh the irony of it all. Bad!


----------



## Macfury

Keep the meme factories busy while Trump delivers on all of his campaign promises. It'll reduce the sting somewhat.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> And his conservative/libertarian nemesis Goldstein.


Death to the Brotherhood ............. Death to Emmanuel Goldstein .............. burn his book, "The manifesto of the Brotherhood".

Long Live Big Brother.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump was referring to TV report on Swedish migrant violence that had aired on Friday, not an actual incident occurring on Friday.


Actually, it was a quote from a Fox News broadcast which a film maker blamed refugees for purported crime waves. However, the "interview" with Swedish police was taken out of context and presented as support for refugue crime waves.


----------



## Rps

A minor point if I may. Fake News and skewed news are often from the same source. While watching CNN during the Defence Advisor fiasco, I hear talking heads first refer to "contact with Russian authorities" but later in the broadcast the heads began to refer to them as Russian Intelligence......quite a difference.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Actually, it was a quote from a Fox News broadcast which a film maker blamed refugees for purported crime waves. However, the "interview" with Swedish police was taken out of context and presented as support for refugue crime waves.


Yes--same show.

Meanwhile:

*Riots erupt in Sweden’s capital just days after Trump comments*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-after-trump-comments/?utm_term=.ce669dd07c02


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Yes--same show.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> *Riots erupt in Sweden’s capital just days after Trump comments*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-after-trump-comments/?utm_term=.ce669dd07c02


So according to the article, 1% of crime attributed to immigrants......wonder where the other 99% come from?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> So according to the article, 1% of crime attributed to immigrants......wonder where the other 99% come from?


More immigrants? I just pointed to the article as an odd coincidence, not because it said anything about overall crime stats.


----------



## macintosh doctor

President Trump knows exactly what he is doing. Speaking about Sweden, as a result people research. People find out the truth. Brillant.


----------



## Macfury

Ellison holds edge in DNC race | TheHill

This is good new. An extreme left-winger and an Obama establishment guy battling it out for the DNC chair--this will further split and marginalize the Dems!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Canada's leader IS a handicapped person. By stupidity.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Canada's leader IS a handicapped person. By stupidity.


Besides, Trump used that pose many times before that to indicate somebody who is pretending they can't recall something. Long since debunked. Typically lazy material.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Besides, Trump used that pose many times before that to indicate somebody who is pretending they can't recall something.


(a) you are correct, he has used that pose many times to mock people, those who have physical disabilities / etc. and those without.

(b) one would think that he'd have enough of a clue to recognize that using that pose to mock someone who *does* have readily apparent physical disabilities would be rather inappropriate. But in order to have that clue, one would need to be self-aware.

(c) Do you think this is the way a President should behave, in any case?


----------



## Macfury

I don't believe Trump had any recollection of who the reporter was. Would I prefer a president who was a little more controlled in public? Sure, as long as that person was as committed to the same policy positions. I haven't seen anyone matching that description, though.



CubaMark said:


> (a) you are correct, he has used that pose many times to mock people, those who have physical disabilities / etc. and those without.
> 
> (b) one would think that he'd have enough of a clue to recognize that using that pose to mock someone who *does* have readily apparent physical disabilities would be rather inappropriate. But in order to have that clue, one would need to be self-aware.
> 
> (c) Do you think this is the way a President should behave, in any case?


----------



## SINC

So Obama . . .


----------



## Macfury

Obama was almost orgasmic in his appreciation for celebrities. He was equally allergic to the military.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3f3e68-f855-11e6-bf01-d47f8cf9b643_story.html

A good laugh from Garrison Keillor.


----------



## Dr.G.

Kellyanne Conway sidelined from TV after Flynn debacle - Feb. 22, 2017

I wondered what happened to her ............ along with Sarah Palin, Rudy G. and Gov. Christie. "Out of sight, out of mind".


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> So Obama . . .


Is there anything in particular you're trying to say here, SINC?

A quick Google search for "obama award soldier" will return many images of soldiers receiving honours for their service.

The meme you posted appears to imply that he prioritizes celebrities over veterans.

And then there's this:

*
Obama awards more Medals of Honor to modern veterans — but it takes longer, too*

When President Obama drapes the Medal of Honor around the neck of Army Staff Sgt. Ryan J. Pitts on Monday, it will symbolize all of the heroism and sacrifice that occurred in a ferocious battle in Afghanistan. But it will represent something else, too: a dramatic rise in the amount of time it takes for troops to be honored with the nation’s highest award for combat valor.

Pitts, of Nashua, N.H., will receive the award six years and eight days after holding off an enemy assault on his platoon’s hillside observation post in Afghanistan’s Nuristan province. He did so even though he was wounded badly enough that a fellow soldier had to put a tourniquet on his leg to control the bleeding, Army officials say.

The amount of time between his actions and his ceremony at the White House will be the second longest for any service member awarded the Medal of Honor for actions after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. It is surpassed only by Army Sgt. Kyle White, who received the medal May 13, more than 61 / 2 years after he braved enemy fire numerous times in a Nov. 7, 2007, battle in Nuristan after he was briefly knocked unconscious by a rocket-propelled grenade blast.

Obama has awarded the Medal of Honor twice as often as his predecessor for actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Still, the prolonged approval process has drawn criticism on Capitol Hill, in the military and from experts who track military awards and see a broken system.

“That is bureaucratic ineptness, is all that is,” said Rep. Duncan D. Hunter (R-Calif.), who served in Iraq and Afghanistan as a Marine. “It’s probably armchair generals who are afraid of their own shadows that just don’t want to do the right thing. It shouldn’t take six years. In fact, I think it’s a travesty when these guys don’t get their awards when they’re still on active duty.”

Before President George W. Bush left office early in 2009, he awarded five Medals of Honor for actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, all posthumously to recipients who died from injuries sustained while earning the award. Bush took criticism in the military for not once decorating a living service member with the Medal of Honor, but the medals he did award came relatively quickly — about two years each, or 736 days on average.

* * *​
Combined, Bush and Obama have issued the award to 11 soldiers, three Marines and two sailors, both of whom were posthumous recipients and Navy SEALs. The living recipients include seven soldiers and two Marines.

The discrepancy in the number of Medals of Honor bestowed by Bush and Obama is probably a function of U.S. military commanders gradually warming to the idea that their troops may deserve the award as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have progressed, said Doug Sterner, an Army veteran and military historian who is widely recognized for his tracking of military awards.
(Washington Post)​
*So *- does Obama deserve blame for this? The article implies that it's the bureaucracy and the generals. What's the process for awarding a medal of honour? Does it come from within the military, or does the government have a quota? 

What, exactly, are you criticizing with that image?


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> Is there anything in particular you're trying to say here, SINC?
> *The meme you posted appears to imply that he prioritizes celebrities over veterans.*
> 
> What, exactly, are you criticizing with that image?


Yep, that exactly. Make that 'prioritized' now though.


----------



## Dr.G.

DeVos Says Trump's Forty-Per-Cent Approval Rating Means More Than Half of Country Supports Him - The New Yorker :lmao:

BREAKING NEWS from Fox News: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is being guarded by U.S. Marshals after she received a suspicious package containing a math and a science textbook.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> BREAKING NEWS from Fox News: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is being guarded by U.S. Marshals after she received a suspicious package containing a math and a science textbook.


Heyyy! She went to the same school for math as Freddie!

And, Barry's visits to 57 states!


----------



## FeXL

Where was your righteous indignation when Barry was caught taking selfies during a state funeral? When he was photographed giving people the finger during debates?

How "presidential" is that?



CubaMark said:


> (c) Do you think this is the way a President should behave, in any case?


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Geez, just like someone we all know here, musician and all, isn't it?


Yeppers. And much the same as another Prog musician who left these hallowed halls long ago...


----------



## FeXL

Perhaps it is you who needs to be reading different news sources. Many people knew exactly what he was talking about. Can't help it if the Progs are busy reading CNN looking for a truth fragment somewhere...



Freddie_Biff said:


> The problem with Trump is you have to be a mind reader to infer what he means.


----------



## FeXL

You mean, like "Rachel's smart! She's 50", and "a 5% cut over 8 years is a 40% cut"? Things like that?

I agree. You have no credibility...



Freddie_Biff said:


> See, the problem with telling lies and making ****e up is that it can be fact checked. And once you lose credibility, you really don't have anything left.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Seriously--this is news to you? He wants his reports to be succinct?


Exactly. When the Progs got nothing else to chew on, they've got to plumb new depths in order to make "scandalous" headlines...


----------



## FeXL

It's fine. After all, the only things they're encrypting are recipes & yoga routines...



CubaMark said:


> So, what are the odds that the usual suspects in here will be as up in arms over this story as Hillary's deleted emails?


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-the-media/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a1a23a212c80

Could the Second Amendment become the First Amendment???? If they do away with the First Amendment, does the Bill of Rights become known as the "first nine Amendments in the US Constitution"???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...dministrative-state/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

Goodbye to social safety nets as well.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...dministrative-state/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1
> 
> Goodbye to social safety nets as well.


I looked for this good new in the article, but it looks like you were trolling me!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Well, his claims got him elected president so the point is ill taken.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Well, his claims got him elected president so the point is ill taken.


What some fail to appreciate is that the people who elected him are very happy with the results so far. Losers get memes, winners get the presidency.


----------



## SINC

Wiping the slate clean?

Arkansas lawmaker wants to strip Clintons' name from airport | Reuters


----------



## SINC

Conrad Black wades in.

Trump and the 'Enemy of the People' :: Conrad Black


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Making the universe great again!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Losers get memes, winners get the presidency.


And there's been so much winning lately!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://youtu.be/nCnKtzQpCSs


----------



## dtaylor

*Indian engineer shot dead in US; culprit yelled 'get out of my country'*:

Man shouting 'get out of my country' shoots dead Indian engineer 'because he thought he was Middle Eastern' | The Independent


----------



## Freddie_Biff

But no, this is no fascist dictatorship. 










https://www.theatlantic.com/liveblogs/2017/02/news-today/517686/14853/?utm_source=fbb


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> But no, this is no fascist dictatorship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/liveblogs/2017/02/news-today/517686/14853/?utm_source=fbb


Given that the two mentioned are CIA puppets, you can't blame the guy. The intelligence agencies are not by any stretch Trump friendly. I am sure they will be quite happy making something up before press time.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> But no, this is no fascist dictatorship.


Was Obama's administration a fascist dictatorship for banning Fox News from certain media events?

White House Targeted Fox News - The Daily Beast

Don't recall your caterwauling then.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Given that the two mentioned are CIA puppets, you can't blame the guy. The intelligence agencies are not by any stretch Trump friendly. I am sure they will be quite happy making something up before press time.



You're kidding, right? Not Trump-friendly? The CIA helped him win the election with that James Comey Hillary suspicion stuff two weeks before the election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Was Obama's administration a fascist dictatorship for banning Fox News from certain media events?
> 
> 
> 
> White House Targeted Fox News - The Daily Beast
> 
> 
> 
> Don't recall your caterwauling then.



Saying somebody else did it too in no way makes Trump any less responsible for his own decisions.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Saying somebody else did it too in no way makes Trump any less responsible for his own decisions.


Say it then: "Obama was a fascist."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Say it then: "Obama was a fascist."



Nope. Because he wasn't.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> Conrad Black wades in.
> 
> Trump and the 'Enemy of the People' :: Conrad Black


Ok. A convicted criminal wades in... so that means what?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. Because he wasn't.


You said Trump was a fascist for selecting only certain news media int a press presentation. Obama did the same.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You said Trump was a fascist for selecting only certain news media int a press presentation. Obama did the same.



Your definition of fascism seems very simplistic.


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> Ok. A convicted criminal wades in... so that means what?


It means that having served his time, he has the same right to an opinion as anyone else. That and his overview is a pretty good assessment of the situation.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your definition of fascism seems very simplistic.


It was you who said:

"But no, this is no fascist dictatorship." and used exactly that for your definition.

So this is a logic fail on your part.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You're kidding, right? Not Trump-friendly? The CIA helped him win the election with that James Comey Hillary suspicion stuff two weeks before the election.


The CIA made the FBI do it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It was you who said:
> 
> 
> 
> "But no, this is no fascist dictatorship." and used exactly that for your definition.
> 
> 
> 
> So this is a logic fail on your part.



Wrong again. You need to take a look at the sum total if Trump's actions, of which his dealings with the press is just one. After you've taken a closer look, you'll be qualified to comment.


----------



## SINC

Dems attempting to regain some traction?

Weakened Democrats Bow to Voters, Opting for Total War on Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> It means that having served his time, he has the same right to an opinion as anyone else. That and his overview is a pretty good assessment of the situation.


Yes he has the right to express his opinion. But one needs to understand who it is coming from and why they are saying it... "Thick as thieves" is an expression that comes to my mind.


----------



## CubaMark

*This story has only come to light due to his status as Ali's son.... how many other people are being harassed by immigration thugs that we hear nothing about?*

(emphasis added below)

*Son of boxer Muhammad Ali detained at Florida airport*










A son of boxing legend Muhammad Ali was held for questioning for two hours at a Florida airport upon returning from Jamaica because of his Arabic-sounding name, US media reported late Friday.

Muhammad Ali Jr., 44, who was born in Philadelphia and has a US passport, was traveling with his mother Khalilah Camacho-Ali, the late sports icon's second wife, friend and lawyer Chris Mancini told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Mancini told the newspaper that both were held for questioning on the Fort Lauderdale International Airport on February 7 because of their Arabic-sounding names.

Camacho-Ali however was released after she showed US Customs agents a photo of herself with her ex-husband. 

*Ali Jr. *however had no such photo -- and according to Mancini *was held for nearly two hours and repeatedly asked "Where did you get your name from?" and "Are you Muslim?"

When he said that he - like his father - was a Muslim, the agents asked further probing questions.*

"To the Ali family, it's crystal clear that this is directly linked to Mr. Trump's efforts to ban Muslims from the United States," Mancini told the Courier-Journal, a reference to President Donald Trump's late January executive order imposing a 90-day entry ban for citizens of seven Muslim majority countries.
(The Nation)​


----------



## Macfury

Yes, of course I need to look at the fullness of all your posts to understand why you failed to make your point in the post in question. I wouldn't go too far down that line of being "qualified to comment"--you're notorious here for failing to support your opinion.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wrong again. You need to take a look at the sum total if Trump's actions, of which his dealings with the press is just one. After you've taken a closer look, you'll be qualified to comment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *This story has only come to light due to his status as Ali's son.... how many other people are being harassed by immigration thugs that we hear nothing about?*
> 
> 
> 
> (emphasis added below)
> 
> 
> 
> *Son of boxer Muhammad Ali detained at Florida airport*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A son of boxing legend Muhammad Ali was held for questioning for two hours at a Florida airport upon returning from Jamaica because of his Arabic-sounding name, US media reported late Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammad Ali Jr., 44, who was born in Philadelphia and has a US passport, was traveling with his mother Khalilah Camacho-Ali, the late sports icon's second wife, friend and lawyer Chris Mancini told the Louisville Courier-Journal.
> 
> 
> 
> Mancini told the newspaper that both were held for questioning on the Fort Lauderdale International Airport on February 7 because of their Arabic-sounding names.
> 
> 
> 
> Camacho-Ali however was released after she showed US Customs agents a photo of herself with her ex-husband.
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Jr. *however had no such photo -- and according to Mancini *was held for nearly two hours and repeatedly asked "Where did you get your name from?" and "Are you Muslim?"
> 
> 
> 
> When he said that he - like his father - was a Muslim, the agents asked further probing questions.*
> 
> 
> 
> "To the Ali family, it's crystal clear that this is directly linked to Mr. Trump's efforts to ban Muslims from the United States," Mancini told the Courier-Journal, a reference to President Donald Trump's late January executive order imposing a 90-day entry ban for citizens of seven Muslim majority countries.
> 
> (The Nation)​



Is it just a coincidence that the vast majority of the people from those "blacklisted" countries are people with darker skin colour, much like Mr. Ali? Smells a lot like racism to me, especially since these countries have not posed ANY problems for America with respect to refugees or immigrants.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, of course I need to look at the fullness of all your posts to understand why you failed to make your point in the post in question. I wouldn't go too far down that line of being "qualified to comment"--you're notorious here for failing to support your opinion.



And you're notorious for being purposely obtuse in attempting any understanding of my posts. They're clear enough for the non-alt-right people.


----------



## Macfury

I don't know who the "non-alt-right people" are because you've never successfully defined the term--however, it could be that you mistake their quiet embarrassment for understanding.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you're notorious for being purposely obtuse in attempting any understanding of my posts. They're clear enough for the non-alt-right people.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't know who the "non-alt-right people" are because you've never successfully defined the term--however, it could be that you mistake their quiet embarrassment for understanding.



Well, consider yourself to be on the right hand side of the left/right dividing line, if that is acceptable to you. Obtuse people can be on either side, for that matter. No matter where one finds oneself, it's a matter of attempting an actual understanding as opposed to splitting hairs on semantics. It's a matter of not being distracted by minor details. It's a matter of trying to understand as opposed to trying not to.

If your next post is a further attempt at obfuscation as opposed to dialogue, I don't believe I will be continuing to respond. There are only so many hours in the day. No offense.

Do you have any thoughts on the situation Mr. Ali finds himself in, as referenced several posts ago?


----------



## screature

It is not always a matter of right vs. left. 

There is a lot of space in between those two extremes. Something that very few seem to appreciate. At least here.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> It is not always a matter of right vs. left.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a lot of space in-between those extremes. Something that very few seem to appreciate.



You're right. No pun intended.


----------



## Macfury

The blacklisted countries were identified by the Obama Administration as nations of concern more than a year ago. I don't blame the people who detained Ali because they're simply trying to do their job. Very lax policies under Obama and stricter policies under Trump. Sorry he was inconvenienced, however, the rules will become clearer soon.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you have any thoughts on the situation Mr. Ali finds himself in, as referenced several posts ago?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The blacklisted countries were identified by the Obama Administration as nations of concern more than a year ago. I don't blame the people who detained Ali because they're simply trying to do their job. Very lax policies under Obama and stricter policies under Trump. Sorry he was inconvenienced, however, the rules will become clearer soon.



You realize Obama is no longer President, right? Trump's administration must justify it's own policies, not blame or credit the previous one. And for what it's worth, citizens from those countries were not banned from entering the US.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/...t_tnt_20170225&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0

Nicholas Kristof certainly does not hold any punches. Sadly, I fear that he is correct in his analysis of the Trump Administration and their policies.  We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You realize Obama is no longer President, right? Trump's administration must justify it's own policies, not blame or credit the previous one. And for what it's worth, citizens from those countries were not banned from entering the US.


Obama is not president, and yet he named those countries as countries of concern for terrorism. A new administration isn't an entirely fresh slate--one must rely on the previous administration for certain due diligence. Besides, I don't recall you complaining at all when Obama signed executive orders banning immigration from some of those countries.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/...t_tnt_20170225&nlid=19590846&tntemail0=y&_r=0
> 
> Nicholas Kristof certainly does not hold any punches. Sadly, I fear that he is correct in his analysis of the Trump Administration and their policies.  We shall see.


If I were a Trump voter, I would be shocked and pleased that he is keeping his promises.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If I were a Trump voter, I would be shocked and pleased that he is keeping his promises.


Read the article again and you will see how many of those who voted for Pres. Trump are in for a shock when they realize what he said during the campaign will not come about in his term of office. Automation rather than NAFTA caused the loss of most jobs, and those waiting for a repeal/renegotiation of NAFTA will bring jobs back will be sadly disappointed. Health care coverage will not be guaranteed, but they will have "access" to this care ......... if they can afford it. Luckily, you don't live in the US and need to survive on Social Security and Medicare. Thus, you are a Trump supporter (albeit not an actual voter) who will experience none of the pain of what he is going to do and not going to do. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obama is not president, and yet he named those countries as countries of concern for terrorism. A new administration isn't an entirely fresh slate--one must rely on the previous administration for certain due diligence. Besides, I don't recall you complaining at all when Obama signed executive orders banning immigration from some of those countries.



Who exactly was banned, Macfury? I recall there being a slow down in processing to be more thorough, but that is not an actual ban such as Trump tried (and failed) to do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Read the article again and you will see how many of those who voted for Pres. Trump are in for a shock when they realize what he said during the campaign will not come about in his term of office. Automation rather than NAFTA caused the loss of most jobs, and those waiting for a repeal/renegotiation of NAFTA will bring jobs back will be sadly disappointed. Health care coverage will not be guaranteed, but they will have "access" to this care ......... if they can afford it. Luckily, you don't live in the US and need to survive on Social Security and Medicare. Thus, you are a Trump supporter (albeit not an actual voter) who will experience none of the pain of what he is going to do and not going to do. Paix, mon ami.



Good point, Marc. It's easy to support policies that don't actually affect you in any way.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good point, Marc. It's easy to support policies that don't actually affect you in any way.


Sadly, many of Pres. Trump's policies will affect us here in Canada and around the world. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

If the press want to be included in future events, it had better toe the line. 










https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...d-trumps-inauguration/?utm_term=.09344d0b2762


----------



## Dr.G.

Frank, more "fake news" reporting. What do you expect from The Washington Post??? That is the same paper that had Woodward and Bernstein uncover lies about Pres. Nixon, who was "not a crook" and was not impeached. Who knows, maybe Pres. Trump will take the high road and resign as well. Then, Pres. Pence's first order of business with be to pardon former Pres. Trump ............... and his second order of business will be to redo the White House bathroom arrangements. He will be shocked to find that there is a unisex bathroom just off of the presidential bedroom suite. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump plans to skip White House press dinner - World - CBC News

Bug Humbar!!! What better way than to shoot down the lying fake media journalists than to be there and blast their barbs with words???? Or, he could bring in the Secret Service and have them blast away with real bullets, which is risky. Better to just not let certain journalists into the White House Correspondents' Association Dinner. Pres. Reagan had an excuse for not attending -- he had just been shot. Now he will just have to tweet about the media as being an "enemy of the people, by the people and for the people" ....... or something to that extent. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I would skip it too. The press has been hostile to him in a way I've never seen before. Why sit still for that abuse?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who exactly was banned, Macfury? I recall there being a slow down in processing to be more thorough, but that is not an actual ban such as Trump tried (and failed) to do.


Trump wanted a temporary ban, as Obama did.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Read the article again and you will see how many of those who voted for Pres. Trump are in for a shock when they realize what he said during the campaign will not come about in his term of office. Automation rather than NAFTA caused the loss of most jobs, and those waiting for a repeal/renegotiation of NAFTA will bring jobs back will be sadly disappointed. Health care coverage will not be guaranteed, but they will have "access" to this care ......... if they can afford it. Luckily, you don't live in the US and need to survive on Social Security and Medicare. Thus, you are a Trump supporter (albeit not an actual voter) who will experience none of the pain of what he is going to do and not going to do. Paix, mon ami.



I would move there if I felt that people would continue to support a largely conservative platform. However, I'm suspicious of any nation that would elect an Obama a second time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would skip it too. The press has been hostile to him in a way I've never seen before. Why sit still for that abuse?



Because it's his JOB to defend the Constitution, including the First Amendment. What makes him so special among American Presidents that he can cherry pick his responsibilities?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump wanted a temporary ban, as Obama did.



Who exactly was banned under Obama, Macfury? Go ahead, name them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, more "fake news" reporting. What do you expect from The Washington Post??? That is the same paper that had Woodward and Bernstein uncover lies about Pres. Nixon, who was "not a crook" and was not impeached. Who knows, maybe Pres. Trump will take the high road and resign as well. Then, Pres. Pence's first order of business with be to pardon former Pres. Trump ............... and his second order of business will be to redo the White House bathroom arrangements. He will be shocked to find that there is a unisex bathroom just off of the presidential bedroom suite. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



Fake yes, but it's pretty damn funny. I jes luvs me some good sarcasm.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who exactly was banned under Obama, Macfury? Go ahead, name them.


Iraq entirely. Suspended visa program for Iraq, Sudan and Syria.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Iraq entirely. Suspended visa program for Iraq, Sudan and Syria.



Nope. 

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/trumps-faulty-refugee-policy-comparison/


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I would skip it too. The press has been hostile to him in a way I've never seen before. Why sit still for that abuse?


Dude. _Reality_ is hostile to Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

_Trump's right about one thing, though. We gotta put a stop to this *Fake News* bull****...._

*Fox News Interview With Fake Expert on Sweden Further Baffles Swedes*










A man interviewed by Bill O’Reilly of Fox News this week, who was identified in an on-screen caption as a “Swedish Defense and National Security Advisor,” turns out to be entirely unknown in his native country, with no connections to either the nation’s defense or security services.

As the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported on Friday, Nils Bildt, who echoed President Donald Trump’s debunked claim that immigrants from Muslim majority nations had driven a rise in violent crime in Sweden, has no known expertise in national security, and has not lived in his homeland since 1994. Officials at the Swedish Defense Ministry and Foreign Office told the newspaper they have never heard of this “unknown Bildt.”



> Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – has criminal convictions in US, no connection to Swedish security.https://t.co/AzP4eKVmXf pic.twitter.com/7Pw0m01vZm
> — Dagens Nyheter (@dagensnyheter) February 24, 2017​


His only claim to fame appears to be the fact that his father, Sven Tolling, is “well know in Swedish equestrian circles,”

** * **​
Näslund, who had been forced to listen to Bildt dismiss her fact-based argument out of hand, pointed out on Twitter that the Swedish immigrant to the United States who claimed that immigrants to Sweden are violent, was reportedly arrested in Virginia for committing a violent crime in 2014.



> Nils Bildt – the seem to be fake "Swedish defensive & national security adviser" – is convicted of a violent offence https://t.co/NQDh8ZCLwn
> — Anne-Sofie Näslund (@annesofieNYC) February 25, 2017​


** * **​
*Update: 7:55 p.m. ET*

After this post was originally published, Dana Klinghoffer, a Fox News vice president for corporate communications, contacted The Intercept to ask that our report be amended to add this quote from David Tabacoff, the executive producer of Bill O’Reilly’s show: “Our booker made numerous inquiries and spoke to people who recommended Nils Bildt and after pre-interviewing him and reviewing his bio, we agreed that he would make a good guest for the topic that evening.”

Apparently, that is supposed to excuse the broadcaster for having featured a complete charlatan in prime time.

The network also asked that we add “something you can just attribute to a network rep or spokesperson.” That statement is as follows: “Bill O’Reilly will further address this on Monday night’s The O’Reilly Factor.”

(The Intercept)​


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope.
> 
> Trump’s Faulty Refugee Policy Comparison


You realize that factcheck.org is not an accurate fact checker? It's a left-wing policy group. Look at the original legislation signed by Obama instead of having a political organ spoonfeed you pap.

However, even factcheck.org doesn't argue that Trump has no authority to institute such a ban or that both bans are not based on the same presidential power. They only argue about the breadth of the ban.

Also see: Obama's _Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015_.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Nils Bildt – the seem to be fake "Swedish defensive & national security adviser" – is convicted of a violent offence.


No doubt about it, the US needs to do a better job of screening immigrants such as Bildt.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You realize that factcheck.org is not an accurate fact checker? It's a left-wing policy group. Look at the original legislation signed by Obama instead of having a political organ spoonfeed you pap.
> 
> 
> 
> However, even factcheck.org doesn't argue that Trump has no authority to institute such a ban or that both bans are not based on the same presidential power. They only argue about the breadth of the ban.
> 
> 
> 
> Also see: Obama's _Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015_.



Who cares? The fact is that Obama never issued such a ban, while Trump tried to. You're wrong, Macfury, and no "alternative facts" are going to change that.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who cares? The fact is that Obama never issued such a ban, while Trump tried to. You're wrong, Macfury, and no "alternative facts" are going to change that.


Of course Obama issued similar orders--and you had no problem with them when they were issued. You may have issue with the breadth of what Donald Trump is doing, but it's too late for you to sound the alarms regarding its substance. You once told us that you opposed things Stephen Harper did, simply because he did them--you didn't mind other politicians doing the same thing. That hypocrisy is also evident here.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Trump's right about one thing, though. We gotta put a stop to this *Fake News* bull****...._


Bildt DOES have security credentials and was a paid security consultant. I think he just misrepresented himself. The question of who he is requires more than the skills or determination of the average lameass journo. The Google caches of his credentials are being erased at a phenomenal rate, but here you go:


> *Mr. Nils Gustav Bildt*
> 
> Most recently Nils co-founded Modus World, LLC, a firm specializing in tailored 'alternate futures’ analysis coupled with practical business and transactional solutions. Nils runs Modus Asian operations and is based in Tokyo. Prior to Modus, Nils ran CTSS Group/CTSS Japan, a firm that provides high quality turn key solutions pertaining to political and corporate risk analysis. Prior to founding CTSS Nils worked for the Chairman of Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defense; House of Councilors, Japan.
> 
> Before living in Japan, Nils was commissioned to conduct research at Kings College in London on National Security and Defense related issues and preceding that Nils worked at The Information Policy Institute – where he was a founding member. Prior to this Nils worked at Pfizer Inc. conducting market research. He has also served was a commissioned officer within Naval Special Operations with postings around the world.
> 
> Nils has completed a Master of Arts in International Policy Studies as well as an E-MBA. He is a member of IISS, the AFIO, INSA, the Foreign Policy Association and the World Affairs Council.
> 
> Nils is known as a person with great geo-strategic and political foresight whom specializes in Intelligence, Information Aggregation and the FUSION and strategic meaning of disparate data. Further, Nils has respected operational experience in non-permissive environments, particularly in the field of Kidnap & Ransom and Extortion situations.
> 
> Nils has authored eight books focusing on issues ranging from investment, regulatory and political climates, to the duty of care and security pertaining to working in hostile or un-permissive environments. He has further written regular articles in Japanese media and journals and has been a frequent issue expert on television. He speaks English, Swedish, German and Japanese.


----------



## Macfury

Tom Perez and Keith Ellison, chair and co-chair of the Democrat Party. Couldn't have asked for a more divisive combo! 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...76c69081518_story.html?utm_term=.2d72fd7f9da3


----------



## CubaMark

Trump is upset the media is not reporting a meaningless statistic about the national debt


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Trump is upset the media is not reporting a meaningless statistic about the national debt



Well, he's certainly not helping the American tourism industry. People around the world are deciding not to visit the United States.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, he's certainly not helping the American tourism industry. People around the world are deciding not to visit the United States.


I'll be visiting for the first time in years!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'll be visiting for the first time in years!


Good luck getting through US Immigration, mon ami. You do realize that Macfury is a code word for "Muslim Attack Corps with Fury"? Still, I shall vogue for you if need be. Just don't tell them that I supported Bernie Sanders. 

Bon voyage et bonne chance, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Good luck getting through US Immigration, mon ami. You do realize that Macfury is a code word for "Muslim Attack Corps with Fury"? Still, I shall vogue for you if need be. Just don't tell them that I supported Bernie Sanders.
> 
> 
> 
> Bon voyage et bonne chance, mon ami.



Come on, vogue
Let your body go with the flow...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'll be visiting for the first time in years!



Good for you, but not all that helpful to the tourist industry compared with the thousands who are choosing to stay away.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Come on, vogue
> Let your body go with the flow...


Go with the flow???? If they stop him at the border he will be going to Room 101 in Gitmo. :-(


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Go with the flow???? If they stop him at the border he will be going to Room 101 in Gitmo. :-(



You. Know. You. Can do it.

https://youtu.be/GuJQSAiODqI


----------



## CubaMark

*Father of dead Navy SEAL refused to meet Trump at ceremony*

The father of a Navy SEAL killed during an anti-terrorism raid in Yemen is demanding an investigation into its planning and criticized the Trump administration for its timing.

Bill Owens told _The Miami Herald_ in a story published Sunday that he refused to meet with President Donald Trump when both came to Dover Air Force Base to receive the casket carrying his son, Chief Special Warfare Officer William “Ryan” Owens.

“I want an investigation,” said Owens, a retired Fort Lauderdale police detective and veteran. “The government owes my son an investigation.”

* * *​
The younger Owens, a 36-year-old married father of three, was the lone U.S. fatality in the Jan. 27 raid on a suspected al-Qaida compound. Approximately 16 civilians and 14 militants died in the raid, which the Pentagon said was aimed at capturing information on potential al-Qaida attacks against the U.S. and its allies.

* * *​
Owens recalled telling the chaplain who informed him that Trump was on his way from Washington. “I told them I don’t want to meet the president.”

He said he was also troubled by the attack Trump leveled at Khizr and Ghazala Kahn, an American Muslim family whose Army officer son died in Iraq in 2004. The couple had criticized him at the Democratic National Convention last summer. He also questioned why the president approved the raid a week after taking office.

“I told them I didn’t want to make a scene about it, but my conscience wouldn’t let me talk to him,” Owens told the Herald. “Why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn’t even barely a week into his administration? Why? For two years prior, there were no boots on the ground in Yemen — everything was missiles and drones — because there was not a target worth one American life. Now, all of a sudden we had to make this grand display?”
(Washington Post)​

*Father of SEAL killed in Yemen raid spurned meeting with Trump, wants answers*









Owens cringed at the thought of having to shake the hand of the president who approved the raid in Yemen that claimed his son’s life — an operation that he and others are now calling into question.

“I told them I didn’t want to make a scene about it, but my conscience wouldn’t let me talk to him,” Owens said Friday, speaking out for the first time in an interview with the Miami Herald.

Owens, also a military veteran, was troubled by Trump’s harsh treatment of a Gold Star family during his presidential campaign. Now Owens was a Gold Star parent, and he said he had deep reservations about the way the decision was made to launch what would be his son’s last mission.

Ryan and as many as 29 civilians were killed Jan. 28 in the anti-terrorism mission in Yemen. What was intended as a lightning raid to grab cellphones, laptops and other information about terrorists turned into a nearly hour-long firefight in which “everything went wrong,” according to U.S. military officials who spoke to the New York Times.(Miami Herald)​
*RELATED:*


US admits civilians 'likely' killed in Yemen raid:
[*]US military says civilians likely 'caught up' in gunfire in Bayda province, but stays mum on death of American girl.
Trump missed his main target in Yemen raid that killed 30 civilians and one US Navy SEAL | The Independent
Donald Trump not in Situation Room for 'botched' Yemen raid that killed up to 30 civilians and one US Navy SEAL | The Independent
*Eight-year-old American girl 'killed* in Yemen raid approved by Trump'


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Apparently Trump is a fan of Churchill. Maybe not this quote though.


----------



## Macfury

There are plenty of instances of parents refusing to meet with Obama as well. It's not 1945 anymore. Likewise, Obama was never held personally responsible for such failures as Benghazi.



CubaMark said:


> *Father of dead Navy SEAL refused to meet Trump at ceremony*


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently Trump is a fan of Churchill. Maybe not this quote though.


The press is still free--just not doing its job since it fell into bed with the Establishment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The press is still free--just not doing its job since it fell into bed with the Establishment.



Au contraire, mon ami. The press is free when it is not prohibited from doing its job and can report freely on the establishment, instead of being barred from entrance. And in case you hadn't noticed, the Trump administration IS the establishment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There are plenty of instances of parents refusing to meet with Obama as well. It's not 1945 anymore. Likewise, Obama was never held personally responsible for such failures as Benghazi.



At least Obama was present for major decisions that put soldiers' lives at risk and attended intel and security briefings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> ...the Trump administration IS the establishment.


Seriously?


----------



## Macfury

Some.



Freddie_Biff said:


> At least Obama was present for major decisions that put soldiers' lives at risk and attended intel and security briefings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Au contraire, mon ami. The press is free when it is not prohibited from doing its job and can report freely on the establishment, instead of being barred from entrance. And in case you hadn't noticed, the Trump administration IS the establishment.


An excellent point, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Seriously?


Yes. However, on a lighter note, with Pres. Trump not attending the Press Association dinner, Alex Baldwin might be asked to come and sit in for him.  That would be better than his skits on SNL. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Seriously?



Who's in charge now, Macfury?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Yes. However, on a lighter note, with Pres. Trump not attending the Press Association dinner, Alex Baldwin might be asked to come and sit in for him.  That would be better than his skits on SNL. We shall see.



An excellent recommendation, my friend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who's in charge now, Macfury?


WInning the election doesn't mean you've become the Establishment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> WInning the election doesn't mean you've become the Establishment.



Uh....actually, that's exactly what it means. How do you think "the establishment" became the establishment? Congrats. You are now the biggest fan of the establishment on these boards. And you thought you were such a rebel Libertarian...


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh....actually, that's exactly what it means. How do you think "the establishment" became the establishment? Congrats. You are now the biggest fan of the establishment on these boards. And you thought you were such a rebel Libertarian...


Uh, no. 

Donald Trump is the very farthest thing from the establishment ever to surface in politics.

And we could use a likeness in Canada to rid us of the Establishment as well. Like Kevin O'Leary for instance.

Getting rid of so-called 'politicians' for a term or two can only help reestablish the establishment in a more reasonable form than Justin Trudeau for example. Or any other would be party leader of any stripe from Quebec.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump is the very farthest thing from the establishment ever to surface in politics.
> 
> 
> 
> And we could use a likeness in Canada to rid us of the Establishment as well. Like Kevin O'Leary for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> Getting rid of so-called 'politicians' for a term or two can only help reestablish the establishment in a more reasonable form than Justin Trudeau for example. Or any other would be party leader of any stripe from Quebec.



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. 

Whoever comes to power and forms the new government becomes the new establishment. The Trump administration despite all of its problems and miscalculations has established itself as the new law of the land, whether anyone likes it or not. That's what the establishment does. Granted, it's a pretty new establishment and has encountered resistance from all quarters, but make no mistake, it's the new establishment all the same. The swamp has not been drained; they've just been reassigned or replaced with white supremacists like Steve Bannon.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> The Establishment generally denotes a dominant group or elite that holds power or authority in a nation or organization. The Establishment may be a closed social group which selects its own members or specific entrenched elite structures, either in government or in specific institutions.
> 
> The American Sociological Association states that the term is often used by those protesting a small group that dominates a larger organization. For example, in 1968 a group of academics set up the "Sociology Liberation Movement" to repudiate the leadership of the American Sociological Association, which they referred to as the "Establishment in American sociology".[1]
> 
> In fact, any relatively small class or group of people having control can be referred to as The Establishment; and conversely, in the jargon of sociology, anyone who does not belong to The Establishment may be labelled an "outsider".[2][3]


Small group (Steve Bannon and white supremacist entourage) that controls the big group (American government)? Check.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Establishment


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
> 
> Whoever comes to power and forms the new government becomes the new establishment. The Trump administration despite all of its problems and miscalculations has established itself as the new law of the land, whether anyone likes it or not. That's what the establishment does. Granted, it's a pretty new establishment and has encountered resistance from all quarters, but make no mistake, it's the new establishment all the same. The swamp has not been drained; they've just been reassigned or replaced with white supremacists like Steve Bannon.


True. Steve Bannon, et al (e.g., Goldman Sachs insiders -- the ultimate "establishment" corps).


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
> 
> Whoever comes to power and forms the new government becomes the new establishment. The Trump administration despite all of its problems and miscalculations has established itself as the new law of the land, whether anyone likes it or not. That's what the establishment does. Granted, it's a pretty new establishment and has encountered resistance from all quarters, but make no mistake, it's the new establishment all the same. The swamp has not been drained; they've just been reassigned or replaced with white supremacists like Steve Bannon.


Wow, really? Now who does not understand? No one 'becomes' the establishment in a month.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Wow, really? Now who does not understand? No one 'becomes' the establishment in a month.


They were already part of the establishment, at least on Wall Street. And now, they have control of the US government.


----------



## Macfury

So Bernie Sanders would have become the "establishment" the moment he was elected?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Wow, really? Now who does not understand? No one 'becomes' the establishment in a month.




Why don't you provide us with your "alternative" definition, Don?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Wrong: 

In the current origin story, Kal-El was born on Earth. 

Under Perry White, the _Daily Planet_ was objective in it coverage. No enemies there.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Wrong:
> 
> 
> 
> In the current origin story, Kal-El was born on Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> Under Perry White, the _Daily Planet_ was objective in it coverage. No enemies there.



Again with the revisionist history. Kal-El was already a baby when he emerged from his pod. Therefore, he was an immigrant. As a member of the Mass Media and not the alt-right Media like Breitbart, the Daily Planet would be as suspect as the New York Times, the paper it was likely modelled on.


----------



## Macfury

The paper employing Clark Kent was modeled on _The Toronto Star_. Again, the newspaper in the comics was objective and not working consistently with the Democrat party to promote its views.

in the ongoing legend, baby Kal-El emerged from a "birthing matrix" and was born on Earth. Under the original legend, found in a rocket, Superman would be covered by the foundling statute, _8 USC 1401(f)_.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again with the revisionist history. Kal-El was already a baby when he emerged from his pod. Therefore, he was an immigrant. As a member of the Mass Media and not the alt-right Media like Breitbart, the Daily Planet would be as suspect as the New York Times, the paper it was likely modelled on.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The paper employing Clark Kent was modeled on _The Toronto Star_. Again, the newspaper in the comics was objective and not working consistently with the Democrat party to promote its views.
> 
> 
> 
> in the ongoing legend, baby Kal-El emerged from a "birthing matrix" and was born on Earth. Under the original legend, found in a rocket, Superman would be covered by the foundling statute, _8 USC 1401(f)_.



Why does the "ongoing legend" supercede the original story? And why would the Daily Planet not be considered part of the mainstream media? Your love of "fake news" and "alternative facts" is baffling.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

On Election Day, Donald Trump was less popular than Hillary Clinton. Now that's some accomplishment. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I've covered both the ongoing legend and the original legend. 

_The Daily Planet_, under Perry White, was not a house organ for the Democrat party. There are other newspapers in the US that are still objective, but the _New York Times_ has not been one of them for many years. For that matter, neither has the _Toronto Star_.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why does the "ongoing legend" supercede the original story? And why would the Daily Planet not be considered part of the mainstream media? Your love of "fake news" and "alternative facts" is baffling.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've covered both the ongoing legend and the original legend.
> 
> 
> 
> _The Daily Planet_, under Perry White, was not a house organ for the Democrat party. There are other newspapers in the US that are still objective, but the _New York Times_ has not been one of them for many years. For that matter, neither has the _Toronto Star_.



Good lord. You really can't let go of that "alternative reality" can you? In your world, Trump can do no wrong, and the mainstream media can do no right. And Kal-El was born on earth, even though there was no one in that pod to give birth to him. I suppose in your world La La Land really did win Best Picture too.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> On Election Day, Donald Trump was less popular than Hillary Clinton. Now that's some accomplishment.


That statement is not factually provable. You can only say that Clinton received more votes by achieving a plurality in states she had already won.


----------



## Macfury

Trump can do wrong and the mainstream media CAN do right--though it most often chooses to act as a house organ for the Democrats. 

In the original Superman myth, I already mentioned he would be naturalized under federal foundling legislation--not an illegal. However, for the past few decades:



> Byrne’s The Man of Steel wipes away all of these Kryptonian elements. Superman is once again the last survivor of Krypton. Krypton itself is a bleak desert world, whose inhabitants isolate themselves from even each other. Indeed, Superman’s parents, Jor-El and Lara, don’t even meet physically until the eve of Krypton’s destruction; during this meeting, Jor-El tells Lara that he has stolen their child’s birthing matrix (which combined the couples DNA, since physical procreation is now socially taboo on Krypton) in order to save him from the planet’s impending explosion. Superman travels to Earth as a prenatal infant, with a small fragment of green Kryptonite that lodges to his spaceship. (This kryptonite fragment would be the only kryptonite on Earth.)


He is born the moment the capsule opens.


----------



## eMacMan

Canadians in general have a tough time understanding the electoral vote system.

In Canada the two most populous provinces can pretty much control the outcome of the election. A Liberal Government aims its message squarely at those two provinces, and the views of other provinces be damned.

Stateside California, and New York host a vast portion of the population. The electoral college is designed to prevent two or three big states from over-riding the interests of the rest of the country, and in the last election did so quite effectively. Let the San Andreas loose its dogs and suddenly Trump has the popular vote as well as the college vote.


----------



## Macfury

Plenty of Republican votes for the taking in California, but no point pursuing them in a winner-take-all state. The best Hillary fans can say is that Clinton stupidly wasted her efforts on states she was already going to win and earned the heartfelt votes of more Dems. 

Trump effectively played the system to win.



eMacMan said:


> Canadians in general have a tough time understanding the electoral vote system.
> 
> In Canada the two most populous provinces can pretty much control the outcome of the election. A Liberal Government aims its message squarely at those two provinces, and the views of other provinces be damned.
> 
> Stateside California, and New York host a vast portion of the population. The electoral college is designed to prevent two or three big states from over-riding the interests of the rest of the country, and in the last election did so quite effectively. Let the San Andreas loose its dogs and suddenly Trump has the popular vote as well as the college vote.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That statement is not factually provable. You can only say that Clinton received more votes by achieving a plurality in states she had already won.



Of course it's provable. To the tune of 3 million votes across the country provable. And Trump's popularity has been sliding ever since.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump can do wrong and the mainstream media CAN do right--though it most often chooses to act as a house organ for the Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> In the original Superman myth, I already mentioned he would be naturalized under federal foundling legislation--not an illegal. However, for the past few decades:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is born the moment the capsule opens.



Revisionist history.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Canadians in general have a tough time understanding the electoral vote system.
> 
> In Canada the two most populous provinces can pretty much control the outcome of the election. A Liberal Government aims its message squarely at those two provinces, and the views of other provinces be damned.
> 
> Stateside California, and New York host a vast portion of the population. The electoral college is designed to prevent two or three big states from over-riding the interests of the rest of the country, and in the last election did so quite effectively. Let the San Andreas loose its dogs and suddenly Trump has the popular vote as well as the college vote.



In other words, subtract all the votes you don't like.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. Did a bang up job with Benghazi...

Not only that, but he only hit what, about half of his security briefings between trips to the links? Never heard you criticizing that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> At least Obama was present for major decisions that put soldiers' lives at risk and attended intel and security briefings.


----------



## FeXL

Fewer Prog tourists in the US this year? Tell me the bad part...



Freddie_Biff said:


> People around the world are deciding not to visit the United States.


----------



## FeXL

What evidence do you have that PDT is not defending either or?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Because it's his JOB to defend the Constitution, including the First Amendment.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, many of Pres. Trump's policies will affect us here in Canada and around the world.


Yes!!! Look forward to seeing how The Hairdo responds....


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> So Bernie Sanders would have become the "establishment" the moment he was elected?


Bernie was already the "establishment". Bill's Wife, _et al_, merely had plans of their own...


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Revisionist history.


Nonsense. Even in the original scenario, foundling regs mean Superman was not an illegal immigrant.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Of course it's provable. To the tune of 3 million votes across the country provable. And Trump's popularity has been sliding ever since.


It's provable that she got some of those votes--it says nothing about her popularity.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Bernie was already the "establishment". Bill's Wife, _et al_, merely had plans of their own...


Yup. Most of of those "free-thinkers" who supported Clinton and Sanders are dyed-in-the-wool tools of the establishment themselves.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Yup. Most of of those "free-thinkers" who supported Clinton and Sanders are dyed-in-the-wool tools of the establishment themselves.


Wow, do you have it wrong re Sanders. Now, as for Clinton, sadly, she got into bed with Goldman Sachs, et al, and their crowd.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's provable that she got some of those votes--it says nothing about her popularity.



"Popular vote." Perhaps you'd like to Google that term.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Wow, do you have it wrong re Sanders. Now, as for Clinton, sadly, she got into bed with Goldman Sachs, et al, and their crowd.



Easy, Dr. G. You're not likely to persuade someone who deals in "alternative facts."


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Easy, Dr. G. You're not likely to persuade someone who deals in "alternative facts."


Well, mama always said "Truth is as truth does", so he can argue with my mom, may she RIP. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Will Alec Baldwin Replace Trump At The WH Correspondents Dinner? It Seems Likely!

This would be fun, and for a good cause. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

George Bush offers muted criticism of Trump, talks Russia, travel ban, free press - CNNPolitics.com

Well, there goes any mention of #43 in all US governmental files.


----------



## SINC

Well, there is criticism of Obama's handiwork that is far scarier in this video:

He SHOCKED the Senate with this revelation. Now you know. – Israel Video Network


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> George Bush offers muted criticism of Trump, talks Russia, travel ban, free press - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Well, there goes any mention of #43 in all US governmental files.


George Bush was an old fool. The only reason he was elected into office was because two bigger fools--Gore and Kerry--ran against him.


----------



## macintosh doctor

thought this was funny and true lol


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> George Bush was an old fool. The only reason he was elected into office was because two bigger fools--Gore and Kerry--ran against him.


Well, he is gone now. Such is Life.


----------



## Beej

*Oddity maybe others are familiar with*

Does the U.S. federal government subsidize school lunches? 

If so, this is one of those odd U.S. left-right issues that is clearly neither, when in a federation with similarities in how power is divided.

I'm not sure if our federal funding of school lunches is zero, but I'm pretty sure it's very low. That is a provincial choice.

So two things to correct me on: does the U.S. federal government fund a significant school lunch program, and does the (far right wing, to use a U.S. perspective) Canadian federal government not do so?

I find this sort of issue interesting. Complicating our comfortable left-right divide. There are many examples between U.S. and Canadian politics.


----------



## Macfury

Yep--at almost $9 billion a year:

https://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/national-school-lunch-program-nslp


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Yep--at almost $9 billion a year:
> 
> https://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/national-school-lunch-program-nslp


Thanks. So, to the second point, does anyone know if our federal government spends in the neighbourhood of $1 billion on school lunches? Probably not, but I could be wrong.

I recall food guides, exercise guides and so on, but not federal food. Maybe on reserves, giving the legal responsibility, but not as a national means-tested program.


----------



## Macfury

All provincial with local school board variation--e.g., breakfast, lunch, what is served.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> All provincial with local school board variation--e.g., breakfast, lunch, what is served.


If you are correct, then we live in an extreme right wing nation, according to some polemicists. You must be wrong.*

*Your statement is not substantial evidence. But I will go with it for now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> If you are correct, then we live in an extreme right wing nation, according to some polemicists. You must be wrong.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Your statement is not substantial evidence. But I will go with it for now.



Au contraire, mon ami. Macfury uttered it, and so henceforth it shall be regarded as unadulterated truth. So let it be written, so let it be done.


----------



## Dr.G.

Editorial Cartoon | The Chronicle Herald

If only ..................... :clap: :clap:


----------



## macintosh doctor

Dr.G. said:


> Editorial Cartoon | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> If only ..................... :clap: :clap:












yes her story or HISTORY lol


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump says Obama behind leaks - CNNPolitics.com

Now it is all starting to make sense. The Russians leak items about Clinton during the campaign, and now Pres. Obama leaks items about Pres. Trump after the campaign. Looks like #44 is about to be deleted from the official Washington DC documents. Soon we will have Harding to Coolidge to Hoover to Reagan to Trump as the presidential list of the last 97 years or so.


----------



## Macfury

I understand this as a fantasy of Hillary voters, but why would the Statue of Liberty think kindly of Hillary Clinton who sought to reduce people's liberties?


----------



## macintosh doctor

Dr.G. said:


> Trump says Obama behind leaks - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Now it is all starting to make sense. The Russians leak items about Clinton during the campaign, and now Pres. Obama leaks items about Pres. Trump after the campaign. Looks like #44 is about to be deleted from the official Washington DC documents. Soon we will have Harding to Coolidge to Hoover to Reagan to Trump as the presidential list of the last 97 years or so.


why is it so hard to believe? has CNN so blinded you?


----------



## Dr.G.

macintosh doctor said:


> yes her story or HISTORY lol


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Good one. As Pres. Trump's Wall throws the US into a massive deficit, you should start to hear cries of "lock her up ....... lock her up" once again as a distraction from the outrage of the fiscal hawks in the Republican party ............. and most other sane people Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

macintosh doctor said:


> why is it so hard to believe? has CNN so blinded you?


Obama has left behind a significant number of statist operatives loyal only to him. Will be awhile before they are weeded out and fired.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> Good one. As Pres. Trump's Wall throws the US into a massive deficit, you should start to hear cries of "lock her up ....... lock her up" once again as a distraction from the outrage of the fiscal hawks in the Republican party ............. and most other sane people Paix, mon ami.


well then i am a proud 'Deplorable' because i am not buying the sausages the DNC and CNN are mass producing. 
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/image...76ca18a50e157cf442128cb35e7e97c8422a247f6.gif


----------



## Macfury

Obama blamed Bush for his own failures for eight years. Didn't hear a peep from you.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump says Obama behind leaks - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Now it is all starting to make sense. The Russians leak items about Clinton during the campaign, and now Pres. Obama leaks items about Pres. Trump after the campaign. Looks like #44 is about to be deleted from the official Washington DC documents. Soon we will have Harding to Coolidge to Hoover to Reagan to Trump as the presidential list of the last 97 years or so.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I understand this as a fantasy of Hillary voters, but why would the Statue of Liberty think kindly of Hillary Clinton who sought to reduce people's liberties?


Miss Liberty ........... Madame President .............. get with the program, mon ami.

Lock her up ............ lock her up ............. tear her down ...............


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama blamed Bush for his own failures for eight years. Didn't hear a peep from you.


You heard lots of "peeps" from me, mon ami, because the blaming of Pres. Bush was well deserved. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You heard lots of "peeps" from me, mon ami, because the blaming of Pres. Bush was well deserved. Paix.


That's pretty funny. Obama presided over eight years of self-inflicted wounds.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's pretty funny. Obama presided over eight years of self-inflicted wounds.


No, eight years of healing the damage left to him by Pres. Bush and helping to regrow the economy. Sadly, his healthcare plan is now about to be scrapped. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No, eight years of healing the damage left to him by Pres. Bush and helping to regrow the economy.


If that was healing, most Americans experienced it like a gut shot. Eight years of some of the slowest recovery growth in American history. What a waste. Time to give someone else a chance to tend that garden!



Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, his healthcare plan is now about to be scrapped.


I am not as hopeful about that.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> No, eight years of healing the damage left to him by Pres. Bush and helping to regrow the economy.


My friend, here's an idea. Instead of blaming past administrations for the situation you just inherited, let's judge you by how you handle the issues. It's pretty easy to point a finger at the other guy. It's a bit tougher to actually do something constructive.

In this instance, Barry was an abject failure, both in domestic & foreign policy. 

Have you heard Trump complaining, even once, about the Charlie Foxtrot Barry handed him? No. He's got his sleeves rolled, his head down & his arse up & he's taking care of business. That is the sign of a true leader. Almost...presidential!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If that was healing, most Americans experienced it like a gut shot. Eight years of some of the slowest recovery growth in American history. What a waste. Time to give someone else a chance to tend that garden!
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as hopeful about that.


Yes, it was healing and helpful legislation that most Americans experienced. It was one of the fastest recoveries in American history given the moment that Pres. Obama took office. And yes, Michelle Obama's garden did provide fresh veggies for the White House.

Have hope, mon ami, that America shall survive the four years of Pres. Trump and have a Democratic president in 2020 pull America out of the depths it is falling into these days. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> My friend, here's an idea. Instead of blaming past administrations for the situation you just inherited, let's judge you by how you handle the issues. It's pretty easy to point a finger at the other guy. It's a bit tougher to actually do something constructive.
> 
> In this instance, Barry was an abject failure, both in domestic & foreign policy.
> 
> Have you heard Trump complaining, even once, about the Charlie Foxtrot Barry handed him? No. He's got his sleeves rolled, his head down & his arse up & he's taking care of business. That is the sign of a true leader. Almost...presidential!


Fine. Pres. Trump is blaming Pres. Obama for various things and how messed up things are.

So, let's see tonight his blueprint for America, and how he hopes to get it through a Republican-controlled House and Senate.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy...

IRS doesn’t tell 1M taxpayers that illegals stole their Social Security numbers



> The IRS has discovered more than 1 million Americans whose Social Security numbers were stolen by illegal immigrants, but officials never bothered to tell the taxpayers themselves, the agency’s inspector general said in a withering new report released Tuesday.
> 
> Investigators first alerted the IRS to the problem five years ago, but it’s still not fixed, the inspector general said, and a pilot program meant to test a solution was canceled — and fell woefully short anyway.


Five years of awareness & nothing. Good enough for gov't work...

And, from the sidebar:

Deportation agency ignored 1.6 million visa overstays under Obama



> The government flagged more than 1.6 million foreign visitors for overstaying their visas from 2013 to 2015, but deportation agents said they fell too low on President Obama’s list of priorities to bother targeting for removal, according to a watchdog report released Monday.


Wouldn't want to infringe on his time on the links now, would we...


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

Trump Pushes For Massive Budget, Staff Cuts At EPA



> A source informed of the budget plans told E&E News Trump will push for a nearly $2 billion cut to EPA’s $8.1 billion budget. A source told Politico Trump also “proposed reducing EPA’s 15,000-strong workforce to 12,000, a level not seen since the mid-1980s.”


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It was one of the fastest recoveries in American history given the moment that Pres. Obama took office.


What kind of history books are you reading, Dr. G.?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...blameless-in-the-weakest-recovery-since-1949/



> It's official. In terms of average annual growth, the Wall Street Journal reports that the pace of the current Obama recovery "has been by far the weakest of any since 1949." Since the recession officially ended in 2009, GDP has grown by an anemic 2.1% a year. That's less than half the 4.3% average annual growth during the Reagan recovery. Indeed, Tyler Durden has pointed out that President Obama is now on track to "be the only president in history to never have a year of 3% GDP growth.
> 
> That is truly abysmal economic performance.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> So, let's see tonight his blueprint for America, and how he hopes to get it through a Republican-controlled House and Senate.


I find talk from people in office cheap. I'm impressed by actions & accomplishments from people in office.

Trump has already impressed me. I predict great things, enough to get him elected for a second term.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What kind of history books are you reading, Dr. G.?
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...blameless-in-the-weakest-recovery-since-1949/


The history books that tell the truth, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> I find talk from people in office cheap. I'm impressed by actions & accomplishments from people in office.
> 
> Trump has already impressed me. I predict great things, enough to get him elected for a second term.


Yes, but when he actually has to work with Congress, he will find that there are limits to what he wants to do. He is not built in the mode of "the great communicator". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rep. Mark Meadows opposes draft Obamacare repeal bill - CNNPolitics.com

GOP braces for Donald Trump's message on Obamacare - CNNPolitics.com

So it begins ................... "Government of the people, by the people and for the people."


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, but when he actually has to work with Congress, he will find that there are limits to what he wants to do. He is not built in the mode of "the great communicator". We shall see.


Neither was Barry. Why do you think he bypassed them & wrote up so many executive orders?


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The history books that tell the truth, mon ami.


It's easy to check--simply list the increases in GDP for each of Obama's eight lean years.


----------



## Macfury

Meadows opposes the draft bill because* it doesn't go far enough* toward decimating Obamacare.




Dr.G. said:


> Rep. Mark Meadows opposes draft Obamacare repeal bill - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> GOP braces for Donald Trump's message on Obamacare - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> So it begins ................... "Government of the people, by the people and for the people."


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned boycott that fails miserably...

A Trump wine boycott backfires spectacularly



> So it went with Wegmans, which rapidly sold out of Trump wine at every store in Virginia but one — where several dozen bottles of Meritage and Cru remained by mid-Friday, according to the Democrat & Chronicle.
> 
> It would be hard to call that a victory.
> 
> On the other hand, the boycott’s top goal is to stop people from buying Trump wine.
> 
> *At Wegmans: mission accomplished. Until the grocer can restock its shelves next month, there’s none to buy.*


M'bold.

<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Agreed.

Hundreds of scientists urge Trump to withdraw from U.N. climate-change agency



> More than 300 scientists have urged President Trump to withdraw from the U.N.’s climate change agency, warning that its push to curtail carbon dioxide threatens to exacerbate poverty without improving the environment.
> 
> In a Thursday letter to the president, MIT professor emeritus Richard Lindzen called on the United States and other nations to “change course on an outdated international agreement that targets minor greenhouse gases,” starting with carbon dioxide.
> 
> *“Since 2009, the US and other governments have undertaken actions with respect to global climate that are not scientifically justified and that already have, and will continue to cause serious social and economic harm — with no environmental benefits,” said Mr. Lindzen, a prominent atmospheric physicist.*


Ya, my bold.


----------



## Macfury

Go for it, Donald--eviscerate those deluded fools!


FeXL said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Hundreds of scientists urge Trump to withdraw from U.N. climate-change agency
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, my bold.


----------



## CubaMark

I am far, far too sober to be doing this... watching Trump's State of the Union Address.

The bull**** is sooooo deeeeeeep.....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Just the facts, ma'am: promises are easy to make, but much harder to keep (unless $1000 is "massive" in your eyes).


----------



## FeXL

Lewinsky was actually under the desk, so I guess that's OK...

Didn't hear this kind of pi$$ing & moaning about Barry taking selfies during a state funeral but he's a Prog, so that's OK...

Didn't hear this kind of pi$$ing & moaning about Barry giving the finger during the debate but he's a Prog, so that's OK...

Yep. Damn that Kelly Conway!

Media Meltdown Over Kellyanne Conway Sitting on Oval Office Couch



> A photo of senior White House adviser Kellyanne Conway sitting on a couch in the Oval Office, while taking photos of President Trump as he met with leaders of historically black universities and colleges, spurred outrage and debate on social media.


Really? Nothing else to cover, people? And you wonder why you get excised from press scrums?

Of all things, the _Mother Jones_ editor actually comes across as reasonable...


----------



## Macfury

.


FeXL said:


> Lewinsky was actually under the desk, so I guess that's OK...
> 
> Didn't hear this kind of pi$$ing & moaning about Barry taking selfies during a state funeral but he's a Prog, so that's OK...
> 
> Didn't hear this kind of pi$$ing & moaning about Barry giving the finger during the debate but he's a Prog, so that's OK...
> 
> Yep. Damn that Kelly Conway!
> 
> Media Meltdown Over Kellyanne Conway Sitting on Oval Office Couch
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Nothing else to cover, people? And you wonder why you get excised from press scrums?
> 
> Of all things, the _Mother Jones_ editor actually comes across as reasonable...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Tiny Trump meets his dad for the first time.


----------



## Macfury

I hope "Madame President" gets a laugh out of that!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> .


Exactly...

And further:

Hard.


----------



## FeXL

Finally!

A safe space for those who do not regard Trump as their President...

Fake News Site Lets Liberals Live In Alternate Reality Where Hillary Is President



> Liberals seeking refuge from reality now have a fake news website where they can pretend to live in a world where Hillary Clinton is president.
> 
> “Approval ratings for President Clinton hit 89 percent,” “Confused by fake news, Redditers think Trump is president” and “DOJ considers charging Trump with treason” are just a few headlines featured on HillaryBeatTrump.org, a satirical news site devoted to covering stories from an alternate universe where Hillary won last November’s election.


I expect several IP addresses that regularly visit ehMac will also be seen often at this site...


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t46jrUkjh8s[/ame]

:yikes:


----------



## Dr.G.

Why President Al Franken Isn't a Joke | Vanity Fair

Next to Bernie Sanders, I would strongly support Al Franken if he ran for the presidency in 2020.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Why President Al Franken Isn't a Joke | Vanity Fair
> 
> Next to Bernie Sanders, I would strongly support Al Franken if he ran for the presidency in 2020.


Al has proven himself a very capable Senator, with an eye for detail. His background as a comedian led him to work that much harder to challenge others' views of him.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Al has proven himself a very capable Senator, with an eye for detail. His background as a comedian led him to work that much harder to challenge others' views of him.


True. Maybe he could run with Bernie Sanders. Now that would be a great combo. We shall see. Paz, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Al has proven himself a very capable Senator, with an eye for detail. His background as a comedian led him to work that much harder to challenge others' views of him.


He's worked hard but he has the reputation of a bit of a hair-trigger goof.


----------



## Macfury

The difference between them is that one of them has arranged to give the Iranians nuclear weapons.



CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t46jrUkjh8s
> 
> :yikes:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Why President Al Franken Isnâ€t a Joke | Vanity Fair
> 
> 
> 
> Next to Bernie Sanders, I would strongly support Al Franken if he ran for the presidency in 2020.




Because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and, doggone it, people like him.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and, doggone it, people like him.


:lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

So presidential: Alec Baldwin to pen Donald Trump parody memoir - Entertainment - CBC News

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> So presidential: Alec Baldwin to pen Donald Trump parody memoir - Entertainment - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:




True true. Now this isn't totally relevant, but it popped up in my newsfeed all the same. What a beautiful location! And those abs too.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and, doggone it, people like him.


Funniest thing he ever did was that nuclear war news report.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Funniest thing he ever did was that nuclear war news report.


That was #2. The funniest bit was his being a weather man out in a thunder storm in Florida with a dish to transmit on his shoulders ............... and he was hit by lightening. XX):lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> That was #2. The funniest bit was his being a weather man out in a thunder storm in Florida with a dish to transmit on his shoulders ............... and he was hit by lightening. XX):lmao::lmao:



I do remember that one! But the funniest one for me was when Stuart Smalley had Michael Jordan as a guest. "I just have to be the best Michael I can be!"


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I do remember that one! But the funniest one for me was when Stuart Smalley had Michael Jordan as a guest. "I just have to be the best Michael I can be!"


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No voter fraud. No illegal voters. 

OK, maybe a few. But not enough to make a difference.

No, really...

Ohio investigation found 385 non-US citizens registered to vote, 82 cast illegal ballots



> Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted announced an investigation has uncovered that hundreds of non-US citizens are registered to vote in the state, and dozens of them voted illegally.
> 
> According to a release from Husted, 385 people who are not citizens of the United States are registered to vote in Ohio. Out of those, 82 voted in at least one election in the last year.


So, what difference could a few illegal voters possibly have?



> “I have a responsibility to preserve the integrity of Ohio’s elections system,” Secretary Husted said. “*When you consider that in Ohio we have had 112 elections decided by one vote or tied in the last three years*, every case of illegal voting must be taken seriously and elections officials must have every resource available to them to respond accordingly.”


M'bold.

That's what...


----------



## FeXL

So, Barry _et al_ are intent on getting Trump out of office, via impeachment or whatever. Frankly, considering the bang-up job he did for the Dems the last 8 years (losing over 1000 seats), I can't think of a better person for the job. <snort> The Great Saviour has arrived!!!

EXCLUSIVE: Barack Obama's close confidante Valerie Jarrett has moved into his new DC home, which is now the nerve center for their plan to mastermind the insurgency against President Trump

Mastermind? Why do I hear that hollow sound the 3 Stooges head's make upon crashing together when I hear that Barry, Mooch & Jarrett are going to "mastermind" anything?

I read something earlier on this, one of the pundits remarked something along the lines of, "Barry couldn't manage a one person lineup outside of a two hole outhouse". Sums it up for me...



> Barack Obama is turning his new home in the posh Kalorama section of the nation's capital - just two miles away from the White House - into the nerve center of the mounting insurgency against his successor, President Donald J. Trump.
> 
> Obama's goal, according to a close family friend, is to oust Trump from the presidency either by forcing his resignation or through his impeachment.
> 
> And Obama is being aided in his political crusade by his longtime consigliere, Valerie Jarrett, who has moved into the 8,200-square-foot, $5.3-million Kaloroma mansion with the former president and Michelle Obama, long time best friends.


More:

'It's coming. He's coming.' Newly rich Obama is 'ready to roll' says Eric Holder – after locking down '$60 million' book deal

He's coming? Really? Be still, my beating heart!!! :love2:



> Former President Barack Obama will soon pop his head back into politics, his ex-Attorney General Eric Holder promised in D.C. this week.
> 
> 'It's coming. He's coming,' Holder told reporters, according to Politico, at an event for the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, a group Obama plans to do advocacy work for and asked Holder to chair. 'And he'll be ready to roll,' Holder pledged.
> 
> The ex-president, who signed a reported $60 million book deal for his memoir along with his wife's, 'will be a more visible part of the effort,' Holder also said, referring to the group.


Related:

CONFIRMED: Obama Admin Sabotaged Trump’s Transition To The White House



> President Trump’s claims that the Obama administration sought to undermine his presidency received some support on Wednesday from a New York Times report on the Obama White House’s activities in the weeks before the inauguration.


What's this? The "Paper of Record" actually conducting some gen-u-wine journalism?

More:



> Notably, The Times did not report the names of the Trump advisers and Russians who were allegedly involved in the discussions.


<sigh> Missed it by _that_ much...


----------



## FeXL

So, the comments on Trump's speech are fair sparse here. The shortage of criticism speaks volumes, no?

Let's start off with a little Day By Day.

Next, unmasking a little more of that Prog hypocrisy:

Controversy of President's Exploitation of Soldier for His Own Political Gain, And His Seating of That "Prop" Near His Own Family



> It's unbelievable. Just unbelievable that any president would use a casualty of war like this.


Next, from the lead manufacturer of Fake News:

CNN PANEL SPEECHLESS After Results of INSTANT POLL of Trump Speech



> He sat out to unify a nation. And Trump chose all the right words. The aftermath left many Liberals admitting Trump was inspiring. For CNN Panelists, it was especially hard to make such a concession. *However, according to their own poll 69% of viewers believe Trump policies are leading us in the right direction.*


M'bold.

Forgot: Prog heads exploding everywhere... 

Next:

Is February 28, 2017, 'The Night the Democratic Party Died'?



> The Democrats -- the silly ladies dressed in white and all the others -- bet the house that Trump would make a fool of himself and Donald cut the legs out from under them. And when you bet the house and lose, you go home bankrupt. And without a home to go to.
> 
> He cut the Democrats' legs out in the worst way, exposing them for the empty party they are with nothing going for them but identity politics. Yet, it is becoming increasingly obvious that if anyone does anything for the inner cities, it will be Trump the builder, not the Democrats who had a chance for fifty or sixty years and did nothing. *Bye, bye, identity politics. No wonder Maxine Waters is so apoplectic.*


M'bold.

Lastly, a little summation:

Trump's speech and our infantile left



> Tuesday's address to a joint session of Congress was without a doubt the best speech President Donald Trump has ever given, perhaps the best speech to a joint session of Congress since the great Ronald Reagan. But who could watch it and not be embarrassed by our infantile, bitter Left?


Embarrassed? Hardly. I jes' luvs it when the left displays their true colours.

More:



> Like spoiled children, who had not gotten their way, they refused to applaud at the most obvious good-for-the-country lines. In fact, they were like a clique of mean girls in middle school who have decided to target one of their own.


Finally:



> Perhaps the deplorable behavior of the Democrats throughout the speech was shame. There are 94 million people out of work, 43 million living in poverty and 43 million on food stamps. *This is Obama's legacy.*


M'bold.

Barry overthrowing Trump?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

I love the fact that he's gotten "Fast and Furious" foul-up Holder on his brainiac team. The Dems talent bench has clearly been exhausted.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I love the fact that he's gotten "Fast and Furious" foul-up Holder on his brainiac team. The Dems talent bench has clearly been exhausted.


That's exactly it! He's got the same Charlie Foxtrot crew who accompanied him in the worst administration in US history & now, suddenly, he's going to accomplish something with them?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Even funnier is that they're revealing the whole plan as though this will put fear in the hearts of Republicans and still the beating hearts of Dems. Optimus Prime to the rescue!

A lot of "okeydoke", I say.



FeXL said:


> That's exactly it! He's got the same Charlie Foxtrot crew who accompanied him in the worst administration in US history & now, suddenly, he's going to accomplish something with them?
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> A lot of "okeydoke", I say.


Yep. Bring it, Barry. With that crew in hand, it won't take long to burn through that $60 million from the book deal, either. And, no more access to trillion dollar drops in the bucket...


----------



## FeXL

Horse $h!t... 

New Interior Secretary Zinke Rides Horse To Work On First Day



> As Politico's John Bresnahan first noted, anyone scoping out the Dept of the Interior today was greeted with an odd sight:Trump's new Secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, rode a horse to his first day of work at the department’s Washington, D.C., headquarters, Thursday morning. Zinke wore a cowboy hat, boots and jeans for the Thursday morning ride, which preceded a welcoming event in the lobby of the building.


----------



## Dr.G.

" "This should be an open and transparent process," Paul said. "This is being presented as if it were a national secret, as if this was a plot to invade another country, as if this were national security. That's wrong." "

Rand Paul demands to see the House GOP's Obamacare repeal bill - CNNPolitics.com

I agree with Sen. Rand Paul on this point ........... If the Republicans are going to sink the ACA and replace it with something, the process should be open so that people can see what they are gaining and losing, before it is too late.


----------



## screature

I'm not sure if this meme fits into the Science Thread or this one. It was sent to me by a friend, an Associate professor at the University at Buffalo.

So I am just going to go with this thread:


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> I agree with Sen. Rand Paul on this point ........... If the Republicans are going to sink the ACA and replace it with something, the process should be open so that people can see what they are gaining and losing, before it is too late.


Right. 'Cause that kind of transparency was exactly what Pelosi pushed when she said that Obamacare had to be passed in order to see what was in it...


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> I'm not sure if this meme fits into the Science Thread or this one. It was sent to me by a friend, an Associate professor at the University at Buffalo.
> 
> So I am just going to go with this thread:
> 
> View attachment 76945


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

I can't think of a more deserving group of people to shove this onto...

IT BEGINS: ‘Hillary for Mayor’ signs appearing around NYC



> No, Hillary Clinton is not going away.
> 
> Someone is making “Hillary for Mayor” signs and plastering them around New York City, several photos posted on Twitter show.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::lmao:


And there are an equal amount of morons on both the right and the left and that is what keeps the universe in a state of balance.

So maybe this post was better suited to the Science Thread or the Philosophy Thread.

But anyway you look at it, the Presidency of the Donald is unprecedented, some think it is a good thing, some think it is a bad thing, time will tell...

But all we have to go on at this point is based on his past statements and actions... and they tell a lot about the character of the man in these early day's and one would be wise to be skeptical about policy changes based on polls... as it indicates that he is just a politician like any other. 

Power is all that he has ever sought and if anyone (Trump supporters especially) thinks any differently in this day and age they are either, misguided, ill informed, zealots, antiabortionists, small r Republicans, have swallowed the blue pill, racists, protectionists (which I cannot understand why any Canadian would support this) or true dyed in the blue Conservatives who cannot think for themselves and will support any Conservative leader come hell or high water (with some exceptions but not many).

I think you can get that I do not like the guy or his politics and no amount of discussion will change my mind, even if he changes his policies because it would just be a matter of reality TV for him and he needs to get better ratings.

So no need to reply it is just what I think and all the neocons in the world could not change my mind about this poor excuse for a man.

Rant over... for now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> And there are an equal amount of morons on both the right and the left and that is what keeps the universe in a state of balance.
> 
> 
> 
> So maybe this post was better suited to the Science Thread or the Philosophy Thread.



Not enough venom, perhaps.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not enough venom, perhaps.


I have stated this before and I will again, especially after a comment like that. 

Too many overlook what very well be the best thing of all with the Trump presidency.

It may very well change the face of politics, not only in the US but worldwide. Make no mistake that I think Trump is a fool and not fit to hold the office. 

BUT if his shenanigans force the establishment to learn that they have gone too far and the people are rebelling with the only means possible, the vote, they will learn that what politicians have been doing for years, is no longer getting a pass from average voters.

That can only have a much better future effect on how we all are governed.

And if it turns out to be true, we can't elect Kevin O'Leary soon enough to rid ourselves of the pox of Trudeau and all dumbos like him.

The only thing I fear is that the Cons will elect a new leader from Quebec and that alone will ensure a defeat for them in the next election.

My nickel's worth.


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> I'm not sure if this meme fits into the Science Thread or this one. It was sent to me by a friend, an Associate professor at the University at Buffalo.
> 
> So I am just going to go with this thread:
> 
> View attachment 76945


Good one. But what happens when everyone *knows* that the people they disagree with are morons? Some of them are correct...and we all know that people who we tend to agree with are correct. beejacon


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> CONFIRMED: Obama Admin Sabotaged Trump’s Transition To The White House


*It's TRUE!!!!!*


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> CONFIRMED: Obama Admin Sabotaged Trump’s Transition To The White House
> 
> 
> 
> What's this? The "Paper of Record" actually conducting some gen-u-wine journalism?


*From the article you linked:* (emphasis mine)

_President Trump’s claims that the Obama administration sought to undermine his presidency received some support on Wednesday from a New York Times report on the Obama White House’s activities in the weeks before the inauguration.

According to The Times, Obama White House officials waged *a campaign to procure, save and disperse classified intelligence regarding Trump associates’ contacts with Russians*.

The campaign also involved curtailing the Trump team’s access to highly classified information and of lowering classification ratings on other information about the ongoing Russia investigation so that it could be more widely shared across the government.

According to The Times’ sources, the *Obama officials waged the campaign out of fear that the Trump administration would cover up or destroy some of the information*._​
That to you is a scandal? Sounds like a prudent course of action to me...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I have stated this before and I will again, especially after a comment like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many overlook what very well be the best thing of all with the Trump presidency.
> 
> 
> 
> It may very well change the face of politics, not only in the US but worldwide. Make no mistake that I think Trump is a fool and not fit to hold the office.
> 
> 
> 
> BUT if his shenanigans force the establishment to learn that they have gone too far and the people are rebelling with the only means possible, the vote, they will learn that what politicians have been doing for years, is no longer getting a pass from average voters.
> 
> 
> 
> That can only have a much better future effect on how we all are governed.
> 
> 
> 
> And if it turns out to be true, we can't elect Kevin O'Leary soon enough to rid ourselves of the pox of Trudeau and all dumbos like him.
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I fear is that the Cons will elect a new leader from Quebec and that alone will ensure a defeat for them in the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> My nickel's worth.



I must respectfully disagree with your basic premise, Don, though I do agree that whoever represents the "establishment" absolutely needs a shakeup. However, Donald Trump is not the solution, not even close. Trump with access to the nuclear codes is like a chimp with a machine gun. He is far too narcissistic to actually understand the part about serving others, which is what public service is all about. From my view, he is the worst thing to happen to America in it's real than two century history. O'Leary is a wanna/be Canadian. Think he'd be likely to move back to Canada whether or not he wins the leadership bid? And yes, btw, I think he will win that, if only because the other candidates are less interesting.


----------



## Macfury

You wanted to see Bernie Sanders in power--that's just Venezuela waiting to happen!




Freddie_Biff said:


> I must respectfully disagree with your basic premise, Don, though I do agree that whoever represents the "establishment" absolutely needs a shakeup. However, Donald Trump is not the solution, not even close. Trump with access to the nuclear codes is like a chimp with a machine gun. He is far too narcissistic to actually understand the part about serving others, which is what public service is all about. From my view, he is the worst thing to happen to America in it's real than two century history. O'Leary is a wanna/be Canadian. Think he'd be likely to move back to Canada whether or not he wins the leadership bid? And yes, btw, I think he will win that, if only because the other candidates are less interesting.


----------



## FeXL

<sniff...>



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump with access to the nuclear codes is like a chimp with a machine gun.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You wanted to see Bernie Sanders in power--that's just Venezuela waiting to happen!


Ask him first if he sees anything wrong with Venezuela...


----------



## FeXL

It would... XX)



CubaMark said:


> Sounds like a prudent course of action to me...


----------



## FeXL

Can you imagine the hue & cry from the perpetually offended left if, say, Trump had noted this about, say, Bill's Wife?

Dem Rep. Says Kellyanne Conway Looks ‘Familiar’ With Being On Her Knees



> Louisiana Democratic Rep. Cedric Richmond made a joke Wednesday about Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway looking “familiar” with being on her knees.


EXCLUSIVE: Kellyanne Conway Speaks Out After Congressman Said She Looked ‘Familiar’ On Her Knees



> “Since some people have interpreted my joke to mean something that it didn’t I think it is important to clarify what I meant. Last night was a night of levity. Where I grew up saying that someone is looking or acting ‘familiar’ simply means that they are behaving too comfortably,” Richmond told TheDC in a statement.


Oh, merely a night of levity? Well, then: ha-ha, asshole...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Ask him first if he sees anything wrong with Venezuela...


I recall him once saying how great the bread lines were in the Soviet Union--because it meant that they had progressed to having bread available. Nothing like high expectations.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> Good one. *But what happens when everyone *knows* that the people they disagree with are morons? *Some of them are correct...and we all know that people who we tend to agree with are correct. beejacon


That will never happen and cannot happen.

But morons still exist in all shapes, sizes, colour, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion and in all forms across the board, from left to right and up and down.

It is all dependent on who is the judge. But morons exist regardless. Just like protons and neurons, they are part of the natural order of things.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I recall him once saying how great the bread lines were in the Soviet Union--because it meant that they had progressed to having bread available. Nothing like high expectations.


Blessed are they who expect nothing...


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> ...neurons...


Neutrons?


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Neutrons?


Yes thank you for correcting my typo, it is very much appreciated. Although the word neurons actually almost works equally as well even though it was not the point I was trying to make.



> The neuron is the basic working unit of the brain, a specialized cell designed to transmit information to other nerve cells, muscle, or gland cells. Neurons are cells within the nervous system that transmit information to other nerve cells, muscle, or gland cells. Most neurons have a cell body, an axon, and dendrites.


To quote the obvious quote from popular culture,* "Stupid is as stupid does." *It seems all too appropriate to the Trump administration thus far and before that his electoral campaign promises.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Nothing like a big larf on wounded war veterans to warm the cockles of a prog heart in the morning!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nothing like a big larf on wounded war veterans to warm the cockles of a prog heart in the morning!



Do you get your sense of humour amputated when you get your libertarian club card? Apparently you've never seen Forrest Gump.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you get your sense of humour amputated when you get your libertarian club card? Apparently you've never seen Forrest Gump.


Yes I have seen it. Some idiot even put amputation marks on the photo because they thought "progs" would laugh harder.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Yes I have seen it. Some idiot even put amputation marks on the photo because they thought "progs" would laugh harder.


It is a sickening, degrading and vile bit of attempted humour and says more about the poster selecting it, than the issue at hand.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yup. Part of the alt-right manifesto is to lose your sense of humour. Not too surprising.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Apparently part of the prog manifesto is to bray like a donkey over any tasteless and degrading humour--as long as it strikes right of centre .


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


>


That is just disgusting and inappropriate no matter who it came from or why!

Is this really the bottomless pit that has politics has become?

I think so, thanks to "social media" and the internet, which were supposed to be good things.

They can both be good things and often are, but far too often are not. Alas, it is the world we live in where such chite is disseminated and people actually talk about it and repeat it, over and over and over again.


----------



## CubaMark

*British actor Patrick Stewart applying for U.S. citizenship to oppose Trump*










Patrick Stewart says he’s applying for U.S. citizenship in order to fight and oppose President Donald Trump.

The British actor said on Thursday’s episode of “The View” that he and his wife went to Washington last month to visit friends and to ask them what they could do about Trump. He said the only answer was to “fight” and “oppose” Trump, but he can’t do that because he’s not a citizen.

The 76-year-old Stewart stars in “X-Men” and “Star Trek.” He reprises his role as X-Men founder Professor X in the Wolverine tale, “Logan,” which opens Friday.
(The Star)​


----------



## Macfury

Man, what a publicity whore! Is he going to apply as a refugee from British socialism?


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> *British actor Patrick Stewart applying for U.S. citizenship to oppose Trump*


He's obviously senile.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Man, what a publicity whore! Is he going to apply as a refugee from British socialism?


British socialism? You haven't been following UK politics for a while now, eh laddie?

The questions is: will his Green Card + Trek Fandom overcome what is now surely going to be The Donald's wrath descending on down through the US Naturalization bureaucracy?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> British socialism? You haven't been following UK politics for a while now, eh laddie?
> 
> 
> 
> The questions is: will his Green Card + Trek Fandom overcome what is now surely going to be The Donald's wrath descending on down through the US Naturalization bureaucracy?




I remember this episode. Reminiscent of 1984. I hope Patrick licks his ass.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I hope Patrick licks his ass.


Maybe there's an alt-sexuality board where you can explore these hopes further...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> British socialism? You haven't been following UK politics for a while now, eh laddie?


Will give them the benefit of the doubt when they leave the EU for real.


----------



## wonderings

Should that not immediately stop the process if your reason for wanting to become an American citizen is to oppose its leader?


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> *British actor Patrick Stewart applying for U.S. citizenship to oppose Trump*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Stewart says he’s applying for U.S. citizenship in order to fight and oppose President Donald Trump.
> 
> The British actor said on Thursday’s episode of “The View” that he and his wife went to Washington last month to visit friends and to ask them what they could do about Trump. He said the only answer was to “fight” and “oppose” Trump, but he can’t do that because he’s not a citizen.
> 
> The 76-year-old Stewart stars in “X-Men” and “Star Trek.” He reprises his role as X-Men founder Professor X in the Wolverine tale, “Logan,” which opens Friday.
> (The Star)​


Ironically he will be thoroughly battered by FATCA and F(u)BAR requirements, unless Donald keeps his word and trashes FATCA.


----------



## Dr.G.

wonderings said:


> Should that not immediately stop the process if your reason for wanting to become an American citizen is to oppose its leader?


During my Canadian citizenship hearing I was asked if I understood and supported the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I said "Certainly". Luckily, the person interviewing me said "I assume that you will support the Queen as well." To that, if the truth be known, I would have said "No". During the Citizenship Oath, I remained silent during the time that had us all swear allegiance to "the Queen and all her heirs". The person administering the oath was 5 feet from me and saw that I remained silent ................ but I was still sworn is as a Canadian Citizen. Wonder if they will ever deport me back to the US?????????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Maybe there's an alt-sexuality board where you can explore these hopes further...



Hmmm. That L should have been a K. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hmmm. That L should have been a K.













:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Hey! I could'a sworn I heard Trump say oil pipelines in the USA would be built with *American workers* and *American steel* (_to rapturous applause_)!?!?!? 

*White House appears to exempt Keystone pipeline from 'Buy American' order*

The White House has delivered welcome news to proponents of the long-delayed Keystone XL pipeline project, suggesting it's likely to be exempted from a requirement involving the use of American steel that might have complicated its approval.

A spokeswoman for President Donald Trump suggested Friday that his recent order that U.S. pipelines be built with American steel did not apply to the hotly debated project linking Alberta and Texas.

"The way that executive order is written it's specific to new pipelines or those that are being repaired," Sarah Huckabee Sanders told media travelling with Trump to Florida.
(CTV)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

But her e-mails!












> Pence’s Personal Email Account Containing Homeland Security Data Hacked
> 
> Mike Pence
> 
> Homeland security and other sensitive issues were contained in Pence’s private email account which was confirmed to have been hacked.
> 
> It was revealed this week that Mike Pence used a personal email account to conduct official business during his tenure as Governor of Indiana.
> 
> 
> USA Today reports that:
> 
> Emails released to The Indianapolis Star, part of the USA TODAY Network, in response to a public records request show Pence communicated via his personal AOL account with top advisers on topics ranging from security gates at the governor’s residence to the state’s response to terror attacks across the globe. In one email, Pence’s top state homeland security adviser relayed an update from the FBI regarding the arrests of several men on federal terror-related charges.
> 
> The Indianapolis Star noted that this was particularly concerning to Justin Cappos, a computer security professor at New York University’s Tandon School of Engineering.
> 
> “It’s one thing to have an AOL account and use it to send birthday cards to grandkids,” he told the Star, adding: “But it’s another thing to use it to send and receive messages that are sensitive and could negatively impact people if that information is public.”
> 
> 
> Indeed, as Business Insider reports: “Pence’s email account was compromised in 2016 when a scammer sent an email to his contacts claiming that both Pence and his wife were stranded in the Philippines.”
> 
> Ironically, as Business Insider notes: “During the 2016 presidential campaign, Donald Trump, Pence, and many of their campaign associates routinely criticized Democrat Hillary Clinton, whose campaign was embroiled in an FBI investigation over her use of a private email server during her time as secretary of state.”
> 
> Corey Nachreiner, Chief Technology Officer at WatchGuard Technologies – a computer security company, told The Indianapolis Star that the personal email accounts of Pence and Clinton were about equally vulnerable to cyber attacks.
> 
> “In this case, you know the email address has been hacked,” he told The Indianapolis Star, adding: “It would be hypocritical to consider this issue any different than a private email server.”
> 
> Representatives for Pence released the following statement on Thursday:
> 
> Similar to previous governors, during his time as Governor of Indiana, Mike Pence maintained a state email account and a personal email account. As Governor, Mr. Pence fully complied with Indiana law regarding email use and retention. Government emails involving his state and personal accounts are being archived by the state consistent with Indiana law, and are being managed according to Indiana’s Access to Public Records Act.


http://samuel-warde.com/2017/03/mik...unt-containing-homeland-security-data-hacked/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Poor little Trump.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ower/?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation

"Trump, citing no evidence, accuses Obama of ‘Nixon/Watergate’ plot to wiretap Trump Tower"

Who needs evidence when there are alternative facts to bring back the specter of the Nixon White House. Of course, Joe McCarthy would have blamed the Russians for this wiretap. Still, it would explain the exchange of a pumpkin just before the election ( a new Whittaker Chambers "Pumpkin Papers" scandal in the making????). We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

A comment on one of the wiretapping stories today from iPolitics is followed by the following reader comment:



> *Dutchcourage* • _a few seconds ago_
> 
> Let's assume the taps are true. They would be requested by the FBI (or another investigative agency) to an independent FISA court. The FBI, let alone Obama, cannot tap domestically without this court review. Apparently this FISA court thought there were sufficient grounds to warrant the tapping.
> 
> It is stunning that the president would volunteer this information. I cannot think of a good reason to do this, other than trying to distract the public from more serious issues. But what would be more serious than this?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Man, what a publicity whore! Is he going to apply as a refugee from British socialism?


Really?! Pretty harsh words and completely uncalled for, unless of course it is coming from a Trump supporter and then it is completely expected.


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> He's obviously senile.


See above.


----------



## screature

wonderings said:


> Should that not immediately stop the process if your reason for wanting to become an American citizen is to oppose its leader?


I don't see why it should. 

In the US you do not pledge allegiance to the President, you pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, *with liberty and justice for all.
*
That sure ain't Trump's vision for America.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> I don't see why it should.
> 
> In the US you do not pledge allegiance to the President, you pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, *with liberty and justice for all.
> *
> That sure ain't Trump's vision for America.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Why is Trump consoling and advising Obama? Obama is a known congenital liar?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Poor little Trump.


----------



## Macfury

No doubt about it. Pence needs to step down as governor of Indiana!



Freddie_Biff said:


> But her e-mails!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why is Trump consoling and advising Obama? Obama is a known congenital liar?



As usual, you are quite unaware of the trends that reflect Donald's popularity or lack thereof; in this case, the Tiny Trump memes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No doubt about it. Pence needs to step down as governor of Indiana!



Hypocrisy is quite common among the alt-right.


----------



## Macfury

He's doing OK!

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reportsâ„¢



> The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.





Freddie_Biff said:


> As usual, you are quite unaware of the trends that reflect Donald's popularity or lack thereof; in this case, the Tiny Trump memes.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No doubt about it. Pence needs to step down as governor of Indiana!


:clap::clap::clap::lmao:


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Why is Trump consoling and advising Obama? Obama is a known congenital liar?


Well the definition of a compulsive liar is, *"someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small."
*
So based on this definition all most all politicians are compulsive/congenital liars.

But I really do not think it is true, not on the whole, it is their campaign mangers and staff that are the compulsive/congenital liars and the politician just follows along. *Kellyanne Elizabeth Conway and Sean Spicer for example.*

But just to add, that is the case for leadership candidates (before and after they won if they did) for the most part.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Apparently the thing that pisses Trump off more than anything is when women portray the men in his cabinet. 










http://globalnews.ca/news/3288599/snl-jeff-sessions-kate-mckinnon-forrest-gump/?campaign_id=A100


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hypocrisy is quite common among the alt-right.


Ranks right up there with greed, lust, psychopathy, paranoia and corruption, as traits universal to all politicians. There are exceptions at the local level, but sooner or later the infection takes hold.

EDIT: Somehow forgot the obvious: The inability to tell the truth, even when the truth would serve them better than a lie.


----------



## Macfury

What pisses me off is that the skits have moved so far from intellectual comedy to wacky juvenile farce. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently the thing that pisses Trump off more than anything is when women portray the men in his cabinet.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> What pisses me off is that the skits have moved so far from intellectual comedy to *wacky juvenile farce.*


Well that was a large part of Monty Python's repertoire as well and it seemed to work for them.

Humour is very personal and one of the reasons why it is a difficult job. You can't please all of the people all of the time. But if one is smart one senses a certain audience that will appreciate what you are laying down. 

Apparently SNL aka Lorne Michaels has been able to do that for decades. Obviously it is not to everyone's taste, but that is not the point, if it were to everyone's taste it would be safe and boring and not funny, comedy at its best ruffles feathers... So with the current political climate lampooning Trump and/or his administration is comedic gold.


----------



## Rps

S creature, actually I think Trump suffers from confirmation bias. He has selective news sources, which are very much ideologically driven. He also shows a paucity in source research. I think it is because he still is thinking electioneering instead of governing....he will grow into it I think but there will be some bloodletting by some of his advisors and cabinet. The two most unwanted jobs right now are the VP and Press Secretary....I pity both of them.


----------



## Macfury

Monty Python was larded with reference s to great philosophers, history, the Bible--if you wanted to get the full effect of the humour you had to keep up with the intellectual side as well. I always liked SCTV because it straddled both worlds nicely. The latest incarnation of SNL is all farce, no intellect.




screature said:


> Well that was a large part on Monty Python's repertoire as well and it seemed to work for them.
> 
> Humour is very personal and one of the reasons why it is a difficult job. You can't please all of the people all of the time. But if one is smart one senses a certain audience that will appreciate what you are laying down.
> 
> Apparently SNL aka Lorne Michaels has been able to do that for decades. Obviously it is not to everyone's taste, but that is not the point, if it were to everyone's taste it would be safe and boring and not funny, comedy at its best ruffles feathers... So with the current political climate lampooning Trump and/or his administration is comedic gold.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> S creature, actually I think Trump suffers from confirmation bias. He has selective news sources, which are very much ideologically driven. He also shows a paucity in source research. I think it is because he still is thinking electioneering instead of governing....*he will grow into it I think* but there will be some bloodletting by some of his advisors and cabinet. The two most unwanted jobs right now are the VP and Press Secretary....I pity both of them.


I doubt that very much, I don't think the man is intelligent enough.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *Monty Python was larded with reference s to great philosophers, history, the Bible--if you wanted to get the full effect of the humour you had to keep up with the intellectual side as well.* I always liked SCTV because it straddled both worlds nicely. *The latest incarnation of SNL is all farce, no intellect.*


Yes it often did but it also very often veered into the absurd, which was what made it great. It could be philosophical and political one moment and then brash, crass and ridiculous the next.





+
YouTube Video









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+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






I also disagree with this comment, there is plenty of smart humor as well. It may not be to your political liking, but it does not mean that it is not smart and maybe you are just behind the times and getting old. 

Just to add I loved SCTV.


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## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Well that was a large part on Monty Python's repertoire as well and it seemed to work for them.
> 
> Humour is very personal and one of the reasons why it is a difficult job. You can't please all of the people all of the time. But if one is smart one senses a certain audience that will appreciate what you are laying down.
> 
> Apparently SNL aka Lorne Michaels has been able to do that for decades. Obviously it is not to everyone's taste, but that is not the point, if it were to everyone's taste it would be safe and boring and not funny, comedy at its best ruffles feathers... So with the current political climate lampooning Trump and/or his administration is comedic gold.


Excellent points, Screature. Throw in SCTV and The Royal Canadian Air Farce and you have four of a kind. Paix, mon ami.


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## screature

Rps said:


> S creature, actually I think Trump suffers from confirmation bias. He has selective news sources, which are very much ideologically driven. He also shows a paucity in source research. I think it is because he still is thinking electioneering instead of governing....he will grow into it I think but there will be some bloodletting by some of his advisors and cabinet.* The two most unwanted jobs right now are the VP and Press Secretary....I pity both of them.*


I don't. They both accepted their jobs and should have known what they were getting themselves into... Cripes, I would not want either one of those jobs under Trump even though I am unemployed. I would rather go on welfare.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What pisses me off is that the skits have moved so far from intellectual comedy to wacky juvenile farce.



That's satire, my friend. That's what lampooning is supposed to be about. It's not polite, it's a kick in the teeth. And a well-deserved one too. Trump may change all the laws he can before he gets impeached, but he'll never gain the nation's respect. And it's the only thing he actually craves.


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## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Well that was a large part of Monty Python's repertoire as well and it seemed to work for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Humour is very personal and one of the reasons why it is a difficult job. You can't please all of the people all of the time. But if one is smart one senses a certain audience that will appreciate what you are laying down.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently SNL aka Lorne Michaels has been able to do that for decades. Obviously it is not to everyone's taste, but that is not the point, if it were to everyone's taste it would be safe and boring and not funny, comedy at its best ruffles feathers... So with the current political climate lampooning Trump and/or his administration is comedic gold.



Exactly. The one thing Donald Trump has made great again is Saturday Night Live.


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## Macfury

Some of the absurd stuff that has made me laugh recently has been on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim--hardly the stuff of old men! Chris Elliott's _Eagleheart _and Tim Heidecker's _Decker_ come to mind. To be honest, most of the big YouTube comedians don't make me laugh at all.



screature said:


> I also disagree with this comment, there is plenty of smart humor as well. It may not be to your political liking, but it does not mean that it is not smart and maybe you are just behind the times and getting old.
> 
> Just to add I loved SCTV.


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## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Yes it often did but it also very often veered into the absurd, which was what made it great. It could be philosophical and political one moment and then brash, crass and ridiculous the next.
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> I also disagree with this comment, there is plenty of smart humor as well. It may not be to your political liking, but it does not mean that it is not smart and maybe you are just behind the times and getting old.
> 
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> 
> Just to add I loved SCTV.



Ministry of Silly Walks. Nudge nudge wink wink. Killing off the historian and the bobbies shutting down the Holy Grail because they'd literally run out of money.

I also was an SCTV fan. Quite experimental at times, and definitely not always funny. They used to film at Allarcom Studios in Edmonton when I was in high school. John Candy shopped for groceries at the Safeway where I used to work.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Some of the absurd stuff that has made me laugh recently has been on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim--hardly the stuff of old men! Chris Elliott's _Eagleheart _and Tim Heidecker's _Decker_ come to mind. To be honest, most of the big YouTube comedians don't make me laugh at all.



Have you ever considered that maybe you just have a different sense of humour? That doesn't make you right and someone else wrong, only.... different. Different strokes, you know. Apparently even Sean Spicer enjoys Melissa McCarthy's portrayal of him. And I'll bet Kellyanne Conway has a hell of a lot more reservations about Trump than she lets on. And for what it's worth, SNL has been enjoying its highest ratings in years, so SOMEBODY must be finding it funny.


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## Macfury

I think its ratings go up as people's general knowledge and level of knowledge of history and philosophy go down. So it's catering to a newer, less-educated audience. My sense of humour is slightly more literate--or deliberately anti-literate. On the other hand, I still like the Three Stooges, so go figure.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Have you ever considered that maybe you just have a different sense of humour? That doesn't make you right and someone else wrong, only.... different. Different strokes, you know. Apparently even Sean Spicer enjoys Melissa McCarthy's portrayal of him. And I'll bet Kellyanne Conway has a hell of a lot more reservations about Trump than she lets on. And for what it's worth, SNL has been enjoying its highest ratings in years, so SOMEBODY must be finding it funny.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think its ratings go up as people's general knowledge and level of knowledge of history and philosophy go down. So it's catering to a newer, less-educated audience. My sense of humour is slightly more literate--or deliberately anti-literate. On the other hand, I still like the Three Stooges, so go figure.



Nothing wrong with good old slapstick from time to time. I jes loves me some good ol' Laurel and Hardy now and again.


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## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nothing wrong with good old slapstick from time to time. I jes loves me some good ol' Laurel and Hardy now and again.


:clap::lmao::clap: I was/am a fan of the Three Stooges as well. :lmao:


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## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/michael.boynton.5/videos/10207964730785563/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


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## Freddie_Biff




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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.facebook.com/michael.boynton.5/videos/10207964730785563/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


The only simultaneous appearance of Larry, Curly, Moe and Shemp!


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## SINC

Yikes, Freddy is photo shop dumb to fall for that job.


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## Macfury

SINC said:


> Yikes, Freddy is photo shop dumb to fall for that job.


Yep. Trump isn't svelte, but that's an obvious con job to anyone who has seen the original pix.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep. Trump isn't svelte, but that's an obvious con job to anyone who has seen the original pix.



If you have the original pix, please do share.


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## Freddie_Biff

I dunno. Looks about right to me.


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## Freddie_Biff




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## CubaMark

*Canadian woman en route to Vermont spa denied entry to U.S., told she needs immigrant visa*

A Canadian woman travelling on a Canadian passport says she was turned away at the U.S. border and told she needed a valid immigrant visa to enter the country.

******, 30, is a Canadian citizen who was born ..... in Canada and raised here. She now lives in Montreal's LaSalle borough. 

She told CBC she was on her way from Montreal to a spa in Vermont for a day trip with two friends, ....., Sunday afternoon. They never made it.

....she was held at the border for six hours before being turned away. 

* * *​
****** was told to apply for the visa at the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa. She went to the embassy Monday morning but was told they couldn't help her, and that she would need to talk to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

"I'm speechless," she said. "There are no answers."

* * *​
She first had trouble getting into the U.S. last December. She was with friends and her fiancé when her car was pulled over for what she was told was a random check, she said.

She was made to fill out a number of forms, but was eventually told there was a problem with the computer system and they should return the next morning.

When they went back, she was let through without any problems.

* * *​
She said that when she tried to cross Sunday, at Highgate Springs, Vt., an agent checked her passport and said they needed to ask her additional questions.

The agent mentioned that she had been stopped in December and asked why she was trying to go through again, .....

She said she told them she's a Canadian citizen, has no criminal record and, before December, never had any issues crossing the border.

She also said she was fingerprinted and photographed, and signed a form to withdraw her application for entry to the United States.

Though she was told there are no flags on her file, a border agent advised her not to fly to the U.S. without a visa...

* * *​
The border agent couldn't say what kind of visa she would need, only that she would have to visit the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa to get one.
(CBC)​
.
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..
*CAN YOU GUESS?*
.
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..
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*YUP, She's a person of colour, with a "funny" name. Surprise, surprise....*









_Manpreet Kooner_​


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## Macfury

I was held at Customs for transporting a watermelon.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I was held at Customs for transporting a watermelon.


Were you denied entry?


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## CubaMark

From the Global News version of the story:



> ...the border agent advised her that in order to travel to the U.S., she needed an immigrant visa and to get one at the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa.
> 
> But when she got to the embassy on Monday morning, she was told that it was “odd” that border agents advised her to do so as she doesn’t need one and it’s a waste of money.


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## Macfury

I was trying to get back to Canada! I offered to throw the watermelon in the trash, but they continued to hold me. Finally a senior guard overruled the first one and said that it was not illegal to take a watermelon across the border.

I have been denied entry into the US for not wishing to register a camera at the border. Told them I would take my chances on the way back on import duty, but they forced me out of line. Guy told me he had 10 different ways to deny me entry and he would use every one of them until I registered the camera.



CubaMark said:


> Were you denied entry?


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I was trying to get back to Canada! I offered to throw the watermelon in the trash, but they continued to hold me. Finally a senior guard overruled the first one and said that it was not illegal to take a watermelon across the border.
> 
> I have been denied entry into the US for not wishing to register a camera at the border. Told them I would take my chances on the way back on import duty, but they forced me out of line. Guy told me he had 10 different ways to deny me entry and he would use every one of them until I registered the camera.


This had to be during a Democratic administration, Macfury. No Republican president or Congress would deny you entry into the US. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> This had to be during a Democratic administration, Macfury. No Republican president or Congress would deny you entry into the US. Paix, mon ami.


Dr. G., I never visit the US when Democrats are elected president!


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., I never visit the US when Democrats are elected president!


Very smart, mon ami. Paix. :clap::clap:


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## Dr.G.

Steve Bannon in 2013: Joseph McCarthy was right in crusade against Communist infiltration - CNNPolitics.com

Bingo. The pumpkin that Pres. Obama delivered to Trump at Trump Towers at Halloween contained a wiretap mic. Now it all makes sense.


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## Freddie_Biff




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## Macfury

President Standing Bear would get deported to Siberia.


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## Dr.G.

42 years ago last week, CBS Nightly News anchor Walter Cronkite concluded a special broadcast on the recent Tet Offensive in Vietnam with a rare, brief, and potent editorial suggesting that America cease fighting the Vietnam War.

That evening, the highly-respected and influential Cronkite said:

"To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy’s intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations. But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could."

President Lyndon Johnson, watching live in the White House, reportedly then turned to aides and said, “If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America.” 

"On March 31, 1968, looking much older than his fifty-nine years, Johnson addressed the nation in a televised speech. He spoke for over a half-hour about a bombing halt and prospects for peace talks in Vietnam. Then, explaining that the nation’s and the world’s hopes for peace demanded a president whose time and energy was not devoted to partisan causes, Johnson stunned listeners with the announcement, “I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your president.” "

Has Pres. Trump lost the support of Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski from the MSNBC show "Morning Joe"?????? If this story is true, it could be trouble for Pres. Trump. We shall see.

The â€˜Morning Joe'-Donald Trump Bromance Is Over - The Daily Beast


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## Macfury

Scarborough only slightly supported Trump for a short period of time. Brezinski never did.


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## CubaMark




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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Reminds me of Chuck on Better Call Saul. Or John Nash in A Beautiful Mind. But at least Nash eventually got help.


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## Macfury

For eMacMan:

Americans Give Up Citizenship at Record Rates, No Tax Relief in Sight | Fortune.com

Hopefully FATCA will see its demise.


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## Beej

*The Democrat Party*

There is a substantial group that wants to follow Corbyn's lead, but they are losing, so far.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc1A7RoY7J8[/ame]

The history of UK Labour, and US Democrats is quite different, but the trend is similar. Both parties are in trouble, and for both parties a significant problem is appealing to the working class while they focus on deeply ideological identity politics. Ideology over practicality. 

A difficult needle to thread when the university educated ideologues look down on the "crass" behaviour of the working class.

We live in interesting times. Political parties, and the selection of parties we are offered, have gone through great change in the past. It is happening again.


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## CubaMark

*Khizr Khan's travel reportedly under review.*










On Monday, a group called Ramsay Talks canceled its Tuesday event in Toronto, because the event's featured speaker, Khizr Khan, would not be able to attend. Khan, the Gold Star father famous for challenging Donald Trump in an appearance at the Democratic National Convention last year, had reportedly been told that his “travel privileges are being reviewed.” Khan has been an American citizen for more than 30 years.
(Slate)​
*Related:*


Khizr Khan joins immigration lawyers at Dulles Airport Yahoo! News
Khizr Khan, reluctant activist | Harvard Gazette
Patriotism for All: Interview with Khizr Khan - Harvard Political Review
Khizr Khan on being vilified by Trump: 'The far right feels that their voice has been heard' The Guardian UK


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## Freddie_Biff

"At some points words fail, or they are starting to fail me. We have an Administration in freefall. Have we passed through the circle of chaos? Are we at the circle of havoc?
The real Donald Trump has stood up, once again. Let no one ever be fooled. Let there be no doubt. The man who sends out a twitter tirade accusing a former President of crimes for which he provides no evidence, the man who doubles down when everyone with any sense pushes back, that man is our Commander in Chief. Everyone who normalizes Mr. Trump now, or has in the past, will have to answer to future generations for their acquiescence, silence or sophistry—if, indeed, not outright cowardice.
How hollow do all those pundit plaudits (including from many progressives) sound now for an average and disingenuous speech of someone else’s words read from a teleprompter to Congress and the nation a week ago? A “presidential” Trump is a punchline to a joke no one wants to have told. Conspiracy theories are corrosive in society at large. When they dictate national policy, they can be lethal.
This is a man who challenged the citizenship of President Obama, with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. This is a man who claimed widespread voter fraud with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. This is a man who has taken a rhetorical blowtorch to our Constitutional principles with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. Those who rose in Congress to applaud his turns of phrase bear responsibility. Those who cynically use his presidency to push forward unpopular giveaways to the rich and well connected bear responsibility. Those in the press who meet insults with explanations bear responsibility.
Even the most grounded of presidents must fight to keep themselves moored to the real world. The Oval Office can be a bubble. Power attracts sycophants and cynics. But I have never seen anything like this. The sheer level of paranoia that is radiating out of the White House is untenable to the workings of a republic. I have a real question if President Trump actually believes what he is saying. Even Richard Nixon, the most paranoid president to date, ruled for years with a relatively calm hand. This Administration has been an off kilter whirlwind since the inauguration, and news reports suggest that seething anger from Mr. Trump is only getting worse. There is a growing consensus that the President may be “unhinged.” It’s a serious allegation, but even if it is not the case, Mr. Trump only has himself to blame.
To call a drama Shakespearean or operatic is usually an overreach. But I imagine artists of the future, and even the present, will find ample inspiration in our moment in history. Doesn’t Steve Bannon strike you as an Iago whispering in the ear of an Othello-like Trump, consumed by jealousy and paranoia?
As the questions mount around Russia, as the circles of defense begin to falter, the determination to create diversions will escalate. But if the President hoped he could create a distraction, I think he misjudged the will of the American people. We have woken. We are paying attention. And we love our country too much to let it falter without a fight."

– Dan Rather


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Dan Rather, who lost his job over manufacturing a story on George Bush. Puh-leese.


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## Macfury

This post requires too much thought. Perhaps someone will post some anti-Trump links and fix the thread.



Beej said:


> There is a substantial group that wants to follow Corbyn's lead, but they are losing, so far.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc1A7RoY7J8
> 
> The history of UK Labour, and US Democrats is quite different, but the trend is similar. Both parties are in trouble, and for both parties a significant problem is appealing to the working class while they focus on deeply ideological identity politics. Ideology over practicality.
> 
> A difficult needle to thread when the university educated ideologues look down on the "crass" behaviour of the working class.
> 
> We live in interesting times. Political parties, and the selection of parties we are offered, have gone through great change in the past. It is happening again.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Dan Rather, who lost his job over manufacturing a story on George Bush. Puh-leese.




Attack the argument, not the person.


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## Dr.G.

Why Google Home is spreading a fake story about Barack Obama plotting a coup - Home | As It Happens | CBC Radio

How did Pres. Obama think he could get away with this????????????? I think that Hillary Clinton put him up to it. "Lock her up ........ lock her up."


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## SINC

Macfury said:


> Dan Rather, who lost his job over manufacturing a story on George Bush. Puh-leese.


Yep, the leader of the pack when it comes to fake news.


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## Beej

Macfury said:


> This post requires too much thought. Perhaps someone will post some anti-Trump links and fix the thread.


I'll do my bit with a couple emoticons :lmao:


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## Dr.G.

Carson: 'There were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships' - CNNPolitics.com

Ben Carson said "There were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships, who worked even longer, even harder, for less."


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Attack the argument, not the person.


If the person is famous for losing their job as a news personality because they are a known liar, we don't need to worry about deconstructing the arguments they just made up.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If the person is famous for losing their job as a news personality because they are a known liar, we don't need to worry about deconstructing the arguments they just made up.



Boy, that's rich. Your hero Mr. Trump lies so much he doesn't even know the difference between truth and lies anymore, and you would vilify Dan Rather instead? Amazing, the way you twist.


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy, that's rich. Your hero Mr. Trump lies so much he doesn't even know the difference between truth and lies anymore, and you would vilify Dan Rather instead?


One liar commenting on another is hardly the stuff of truth.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy, that's rich. Your hero Mr. Trump lies so much he doesn't even know the difference between truth and lies anymore, and you would vilify Dan Rather instead? Amazing, the way you twist.


Bigger question. Why, of all people, would you choose Dan Rather to make that point?


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## Freddie_Biff

Trump is great for the economy—only his own though, not America's. By the way, that photoshop of Trump's fat ass sure is convincing.












> Donald Trump Is BANKRUPTING Business Owners Because Of His NUMEROUS Mar-a-Lago Trips
> 
> Written by Truth Examiner (8 hours ago)
> President Trump has proven himself to be a hypocrite after taking weekend vacations every chance he gets, a practice he criticized Former President Obama for. Every single trip Trump takes to the “Southern White House” Mar-A-Lago has a bill to the taxpayer of $3 million.
> 
> If Trump keeps up his current pace of vacationing in under one year he will have spent more than Obama did over the course of 8 years.
> 
> The price tag of Trump’s vacation is not just being absorbed by us, it’s also local businesses that are suffering:
> 
> Via AddictingInfo: “We’re basically going broke,” said a spokesperson on behalf of Southern Helicopter when approached for comment by NBC Nightly News. “We were not expecting him to come down almost every weekend.”
> 
> Palm Beach County, where Trump’s golfing resort is located, has been forced to absorb the security costs of $1.7 million per weekend. A sum they have not been reimbursed for by the Trump administration.
> 
> Via AddictingInfo: Stellar Aviation Group president Jonathan Miller told NBC that his business is losing $30,000 every weekend when Trump is in town. He fears his business will fold if Trump doesn’t halt his trips soon.
> 
> Do you think it’s appropriate for Trump’s vacations to harm local businesses to this extent? Comment below and let us know.


https://www.truthexaminer.com/2017/...ers-because-of-his-numerous-mar-a-lago-trips/


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## CubaMark

*Trump blames wrong president for most Guantánamo "back to battlefield" releases*

President Donald Trump broke his White House silence on the topic of Guantánamo Tuesday, incorrectly blaming Barack Obama not George W. Bush for the release of more than 100 captives who U.S. intelligence agencies consider recidivists.










The president’s tweet, just after 7 a.m., correctly referred to an Obama-era report from the Office of the Directorate of National Intelligence as citing 122 former captive as “re-engagers.”

But it failed to note that 113 of the men described by Trump in his tweet as “vicious prisoners” were released by the George W. Bush administration. The report released in September, said nine captives sent to other countries by the Obama administration were confirmed to re-engage, the term of art for what is colloquially called having gone back to the fight.

The so-called recidivist rate may have interested the new president because of the Pentagon’s disclosure a day earlier that a U.S. air strike in Yemen had killed a captive repatriated by the Obama administration in December 2009.
(Miami Herald)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Carson calls slaves 'immigrants' in speech, drawing criticism | Reuters

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to get off of the slave ships."


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Bigger question. Why, of all people, would you choose Dan Rather to make that point?


To be clear Rather failed to authenticate documentation. Different than out and out lying. Still a very poor journalistic practice, though in recent years it seems to have become the norm rather than the exception. Witness the current unsupported journalistic attacks against Russia.


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## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> To be clear Rather failed to authenticate documentation. Different than out and out lying. Still a very poor journalistic practice, though in recent years it seems to have become the norm rather than the exception. Witness the current unsupported journalistic attacks against Russia.


It depends on how you define attacking someone with fabricated evidence that you have not verified. Honestly, with the Russian allegations, I have no idea if people are out-and-out lying or are suffering from some sort of group hysteria.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> To be clear Rather failed to authenticate documentation. Different than out and out lying.


To be clearer  for the benefit of our younger residents, here's the background to the story:

*George W. Bush military service controversy* _(Wikpedia)_

And Dan Rather as recently as 2015 continued to claim the story was true, while admitting to serious errors in using unverified documents:

*Dan Rather is sticking to the "Truth" of his story about George W. Bush* - _LA Times_

At the time that all of this played out, Garry Trudeau (Doonesbury creator) wanted someone to prove Bush had actually served according to his claims, to wit:

_....now he is stepping up from the drawing board to take the challenge more directly to the president. *He is offering a $10,000 reward* to anyone who will verify Mr Bush's account of his military service in Alabama in the early 70s.

The war records of Mr Bush and the likely Democratic candidate Senator John Kerry are expected to be a key issue in November's presidential election.

Senator Kerry won medals for bravery in combat in Vietnam, but returned home to be an anti-war campaigner. Mr Bush was a pilot in the Texas National Guard, a volunteer reserve force which at the time was seen by many as a way of avoiding going to war.

Accusations have been made that Mr Bush used family connections to join the National Guard and that he spent the last two of his five years' service working on the political campaign of one of his father's friends in Alabama instead of military duties. His opponents have demanded evidence that he took part in training in those two years._(Rense)​
*Did anyone ever step up with documentation to support Bush's claim of service?*


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## Macfury

Did anyone ever collect the prize for definitive proof of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Did anyone ever collect the prize for definitive proof of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming?


----------



## Beej

*Wikileaks*

Grabbed a convenient article:
WikiLeaks says it releases files on CIA cyber spying tools | Reuters

Any thoughts on the importance of this? I'm seeing a lot of information implying that this is big, and other information treating it like a run of the mill thing.



> In one case, the documents say, U.S. and British personnel, under a program known as Weeping Angel, developed ways to take over a Samsung smart television, making it appear it was off when in fact it was recording conversations in the room.


Looks big to me, and not just based on the above quote. Even if it only confirms practices that people semi-seriously/jokingly reference, this looks notable.

Potentially relevant history from Canada:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Security_Intelligence_Service#History


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## Macfury

I think it's big Beej. The abuse described there is extraordinary--as is the co-operation from electronics manufacturers.


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## Freddie_Biff




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## Macfury

Do losers lose their sense of humour? 'pears so....


----------



## Beej

*Back to Cognitive Dissonance*

People hated Trump or the Republicans so much, they could not process that Trump was a more effective communicator, and that people were giving Clinton a lot of slack. 

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...ch/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html



> We heard a lot of “now I understand how this happened”—meaning how Trump won the election. People got upset. There was a guy two rows in front of me who was literally holding his head in his hands, and the person with him was rubbing his back. The simplicity of Trump’s message became easier for people to hear when it was coming from a woman—that was a theme. One person said, “I’m just so struck by how precise Trump’s technique is.” Another—a musical theater composer, actually—said that Trump created “hummable lyrics,” while Clinton talked a lot, and everything she was was true and factual, but there was no “hook” to it. Another theme was about not liking either candidate—you know, “I wouldn’t vote for either one.” Someone said that Jonathan Gordon [the male Hillary Clinton] was “really punchable” because of all the smiling. And a lot of people were just very surprised by the way it upended their expectations about what they thought they would feel or experience. There was someone who described Brenda King [the female Donald Trump] as his Jewish aunt who would take care of him, even though he might not like his aunt. Someone else described her as the middle school principal who you don’t like, but you know is doing good things for you.


Not definitive, but this is consistent with what I saw during and after the campaign.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

The Legend lives on...


----------



## Dr.G.

MazterCBlazter said:


> The Legend lives on...


:clap::lmao::clap:

Welcome back, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

I agree.

Trump was criticized for using simple phrasing. This is what made his campaign planks memorable to all voters--even those who decried his phrasing.




Beej said:


> People hated Trump or the Republicans so much, they could not process that Trump was a more effective communicator, and that people were giving Clinton a lot of slack.
> 
> https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...ch/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html
> 
> 
> 
> Not definitive, but this is consistent with what I saw during and after the campaign.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Dr.G. said:


> :clap::lmao::clap:
> 
> Welcome back, mon ami. Paix.


Great to see you out here in this battlefield thread Dr.G.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

How long until the next American Civil War?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

Politics aside, Ben Carson - current head of Housing & Urban Development (HUD) and famous neurosurgeon - is a flat-out nut.

*Ben Carson claims he could zap staff's brains into remembering whole books read years ago* | The Independent


----------



## Macfury

.


MazterCBlazter said:


> How long until the next American Civil War?


----------



## Macfury

Deep Brain Stimulation Tried For Alzheimer's : Shots - Health News : NPR



> In 2008, Lozano's group published a study in which an obese patient was treated with deep brain stimulation of the hypothalamus. Though no bigger than a pea, the hypothalamus is a crucial bit of brain involved in appetite regulation and other bodily essentials such as temperature control, sleep and circadian rhythms. It seemed like a reasonable target in trying to suppress excessive hunger. To the researcher's surprise, following stimulation the patient reported a sensation of deja vu. He also perceived feeling 20 years younger and recalled a memory of being in a park with friends, including an old girlfriend. With increasing voltages, his memories became more vivid, including remembering their clothes.





CubaMark said:


> Politics aside, Ben Carson - current head of Housing & Urban Development (HUD) and famous neurosurgeon - is a flat-out nut.
> 
> *Ben Carson claims he could zap staff's brains into remembering whole books read years ago* | The Independent


----------



## Dr.G.

MazterCBlazter said:


> Great to see you out here in this battlefield thread Dr.G.


Well, when the postings are reasonable, even if I don't agree with their content, I participate. If not, I either just ignore or try to insert a touch of levity to the posting. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

I do think that there is a lot of merit to the deep brain electrical stimulation Dr. Carson is speaking about. However, due to his politics and some other ideas he has are just too questionable and controversial, which makes me question his judgment. For this reason, I would investigate other sources than him for information on this subject before drawing any conclusions. 

People I know in his SDA church who know him have told me he is a very nice likable person, while in most ways very intelligent, has some beliefs that they certainly do not agree with.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I agree.
> 
> Trump was criticized for using simple phrasing. This is what made his campaign planks memorable to all voters--even those who decried his phrasing.


And you were just talking about how SNL is more popular now because of the "dumbing down" of America... It seems the Donald was successful on that front as well, if the reasons you state for your criticism of SNL is valid. Then this logically follows as well.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> .


Agreed.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> And you were just talking about how SNL is more popular now because of the "dumbing down" of America... It seems the Donald was successful on that front as well, if the reasons you state for your criticism of SNL is valid. Then this logically follows as well.


Yes. He had to speak simply to reach the products of a failing education system with short attention spans.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Contradiction and pandering in overdrive.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

MazterCBlazter said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Yup. Happy International Women's Day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

These are pretty funny...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqa-EV5qBPY[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC9oCpHcIzg[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLLPVPn8M6Y[/ame]


----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## Macfury

Blazter, are you out of touch! The Dems lost the election because they were the party of the corporate elite!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Yes. He had to speak simply to reach the products of a failing education system with short attention spans.


That does not bode well for the GOP, the US or his presidency.

"Stupid is as stupid does".


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> That does not bode well for the GOP, the US or his presidency.
> 
> "Stupid is as stupid does".


A valid point, screature. At least that is what mama always said. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## screature

MazterCBlazter said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contradiction and pandering in overdrive.


MasterCB we have disagreed vehemently over many things in the past, but I have to say SPOT ON for posting this!!! :clap::clap::clap:

The man is a liar, a pathological liar as the video demonstrates. Either that or he is schizophrenic, either way I don't care. He is not fit to govern the most powerful nation is the Western world let alone manage his own debt to the US government.

But China is the most powerful nation in the Eastern world and owns the second largest amount of US debt then followed closely by Japan. So what are his plans for dealing with that? Start a war? That has worked in the past.

Who owns America's debt?


----------



## Dr.G.

Nixon's former lawyer hears 'echoes of Watergate' in 1st weeks of Trump's presidency - Politics - CBC News

An interesting perspective from someone on the inside who saw Watergate evolve ......... then devolve.

I have felt this same unease with the Trump administration as I did each week when something new re the Watergate break in and cover up took place in the last year or two of Nixon's administration.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I have felt this same unease with the Trump administration as I did each week when something new re the Watergate break in and cover up took place in the last year or two of Nixon's administration.


Obama's hacking and wiretapping of the Republican election team is very troubling, but thankfully Obama can no longer be impeached.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obama's hacking and wiretapping of the Republican election team is very troubling, but thankfully Obama can no longer be impeached.



Good lord. What is it with you and fake news?


----------



## eMacMan

There is no question that Trump was tapped. Only question is if Obama ordered it, or if the orders came from further up the food chain.

Anyone who believes the NSA domestic spying is about catching terrorists has been smoking some great weed. It's all about finding the dirt on various leaders so leverage can be applied as needed.


----------



## CubaMark

_Neil MacDonald has something to say about the sad, sick joke that is Republicans and their "plan" to replace Obamacare. IMHO, Obamacare was a disaster because it was designed to work within the existing system of health insurance companies. A national plan in the Canadian or UK model is far more logical... and because "freedom" (to paraphrase MacDonald), you'd have to allow for private clinics for those who can afford to jump the queue. Obamacare did little more than ensure the HICs would continue to make obscene amounts of money while providing CrappyCare™._

*OPINION: Trumpcare will see some Americans lose health coverage because... 'freedom'*

Trumpcare is the "beautiful, beautiful plan" that Trump promised will bring not only greatly improved coverage, but much lower premiums.

Anyone who understands the basics of health care economics should be able to understand that. Trump will convince America's insurance companies — a bunch of ferociously aggressive profit-generators whose business model is to maximize revenue and minimize spending, and who find any excuse to turn down or slow a claim — to provide much more expensive care for far less money.

Oh, and also freedom. That's actually a talking point.

Trumpcare will deliver freedom to miserable Americans chained up by Obama's statist squid of a system, which, in the words of Ben Carson, one of Trump's cabinet secretaries, was the "worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery."

** * **​
The thing about Obamacare that enslaved so many Americans, in the eyes of rightist Republicans, was what's known as "the individual mandate," which is a bureaucratic way of saying "the government trying to force everyone to obtain health insurance."

The individual mandate idea was rooted in the basic concept of insurance: when more people buy insurance, the risk is spread more thinly, and everyone's premium drops as a result.

** * **​
Under Trumpcare, which is all about freedom, people will be free to buy no insurance. They will also be free not to be able to afford insurance. Because, well, liberty.

But anyone who has insurance and lets his or her coverage lapse, for any reason (even losing a job) shall face a 30 per cent premium increase if that person tries to renew. 

Trumpcare actually directs insurance companies to tack on the big surcharge, not that they need convincing.

This way, the government shifts the job of penalizing from the IRS to the insurance companies, thereby replacing slavery with liberty. If it's government screwing you, like Obama did, that's socialism. If it's a corporation screwing you, and profiting in the process, well, that's the American way. Freedom.

** * **​
Jason Chaffetz, another conservative congressional Republican, says Americans need to understand that under Trumpcare, it'll be time for people to take some personal responsibility for their medical care; he suggests not buying an iPhone and spending the money on insurance instead.

You can imagine how that went down in iPhone-loving middle America.

** * **​
What has the president said about all this? Not much. He just wants the damn thing passed without too much discussion. Next week would be good.

It's also a safe bet that this beautiful, beautiful new plan is one of the few things on this earth Donald Trump doesn't want to see his name on.
(CBC)​


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Obama's hacking and wiretapping of the Republican election team is very troubling, but thankfully Obama can no longer be impeached.


Alleged hacking.....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> There is no question that Trump was tapped. Only question is if Obama ordered it, or if the orders came from further up the food chain.
> 
> Anyone who believes the NSA domestic spying is about catching terrorists has been smoking some great weed. It's all about finding the dirt on various leaders so leverage can be applied as needed.



And what is your proof that he was tapped? Weed smoking is available to everyone these days.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _Neil MacDonald has something to say about the sad, sick joke that is Republicans and their "plan" to replace Obamacare. IMHO, Obamacare was a disaster because it was designed to work within the existing system of health insurance companies. A national plan in the Canadian or UK model is far more logical... and because "freedom" (to paraphrase MacDonald), you'd have to allow for private clinics for those who can afford to jump the queue. Obamacare did little more than ensure the HICs would continue to make obscene amounts of money while providing CrappyCare._
> 
> 
> 
> *OPINION: Trumpcare will see some Americans lose health coverage because... 'freedom'*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumpcare is the "beautiful, beautiful plan" that Trump promised will bring not only greatly improved coverage, but much lower premiums.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who understands the basics of health care economics should be able to understand that. Trump will convince America's insurance companies — a bunch of ferociously aggressive profit-generators whose business model is to maximize revenue and minimize spending, and who find any excuse to turn down or slow a claim — to provide much more expensive care for far less money.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and also freedom. That's actually a talking point.
> 
> 
> 
> Trumpcare will deliver freedom to miserable Americans chained up by Obama's statist squid of a system, which, in the words of Ben Carson, one of Trump's cabinet secretaries, was the "worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery."
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> The thing about Obamacare that enslaved so many Americans, in the eyes of rightist Republicans, was what's known as "the individual mandate," which is a bureaucratic way of saying "the government trying to force everyone to obtain health insurance."
> 
> 
> 
> The individual mandate idea was rooted in the basic concept of insurance: when more people buy insurance, the risk is spread more thinly, and everyone's premium drops as a result.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> Under Trumpcare, which is all about freedom, people will be free to buy no insurance. They will also be free not to be able to afford insurance. Because, well, liberty.
> 
> 
> 
> But anyone who has insurance and lets his or her coverage lapse, for any reason (even losing a job) shall face a 30 per cent premium increase if that person tries to renew.
> 
> 
> 
> Trumpcare actually directs insurance companies to tack on the big surcharge, not that they need convincing.
> 
> 
> 
> This way, the government shifts the job of penalizing from the IRS to the insurance companies, thereby replacing slavery with liberty. If it's government screwing you, like Obama did, that's socialism. If it's a corporation screwing you, and profiting in the process, well, that's the American way. Freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> Jason Chaffetz, another conservative congressional Republican, says Americans need to understand that under Trumpcare, it'll be time for people to take some personal responsibility for their medical care; he suggests not buying an iPhone and spending the money on insurance instead.
> 
> 
> 
> You can imagine how that went down in iPhone-loving middle America.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> What has the president said about all this? Not much. He just wants the damn thing passed without too much discussion. Next week would be good.
> 
> 
> 
> It's also a safe bet that this beautiful, beautiful new plan is one of the few things on this earth Donald Trump doesn't want to see his name on.
> 
> (CBC)​



Kellyann even said as much, when they finally let her speak again, after she got her legs back. Please don't refer to it as Trumpcare, she requested. God bless capitalism. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Obama's hacking and wiretapping of the Republican election team is very troubling, but thankfully Obama can no longer be impeached.


Macfury, you actually believe that this wiretapping took place???? With no real evidence???? It is like my saying that you are a secret agent for the US government and are here in ehMacLand to root out and expose all of the Pres. Trump supporters for "reeducation". You present yourself as a Trump supporter, but some of us know the "truth". So long as I say it often enough it must be true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _Neil MacDonald has something to say about the sad, sick joke that is Republicans and their "plan" to replace Obamacare. IMHO, Obamacare was a disaster because it was designed to work within the existing system of health insurance companies. A national plan in the Canadian or UK model is far more logical... and because "freedom" (to paraphrase MacDonald), you'd have to allow for private clinics for those who can afford to jump the queue. Obamacare did little more than ensure the HICs would continue to make obscene amounts of money while providing CrappyCare™._
> 
> *OPINION: Trumpcare will see some Americans lose health coverage because... 'freedom'*
> 
> Trumpcare is the "beautiful, beautiful plan" that Trump promised will bring not only greatly improved coverage, but much lower premiums.
> 
> Anyone who understands the basics of health care economics should be able to understand that. Trump will convince America's insurance companies — a bunch of ferociously aggressive profit-generators whose business model is to maximize revenue and minimize spending, and who find any excuse to turn down or slow a claim — to provide much more expensive care for far less money.
> 
> Oh, and also freedom. That's actually a talking point.
> 
> Trumpcare will deliver freedom to miserable Americans chained up by Obama's statist squid of a system, which, in the words of Ben Carson, one of Trump's cabinet secretaries, was the "worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery."
> 
> ** * **​
> The thing about Obamacare that enslaved so many Americans, in the eyes of rightist Republicans, was what's known as "the individual mandate," which is a bureaucratic way of saying "the government trying to force everyone to obtain health insurance."
> 
> The individual mandate idea was rooted in the basic concept of insurance: when more people buy insurance, the risk is spread more thinly, and everyone's premium drops as a result.
> 
> ** * **​
> Under Trumpcare, which is all about freedom, people will be free to buy no insurance. They will also be free not to be able to afford insurance. Because, well, liberty.
> 
> But anyone who has insurance and lets his or her coverage lapse, for any reason (even losing a job) shall face a 30 per cent premium increase if that person tries to renew.
> 
> Trumpcare actually directs insurance companies to tack on the big surcharge, not that they need convincing.
> 
> This way, the government shifts the job of penalizing from the IRS to the insurance companies, thereby replacing slavery with liberty. If it's government screwing you, like Obama did, that's socialism. If it's a corporation screwing you, and profiting in the process, well, that's the American way. Freedom.
> 
> ** * **​
> Jason Chaffetz, another conservative congressional Republican, says Americans need to understand that under Trumpcare, it'll be time for people to take some personal responsibility for their medical care; he suggests not buying an iPhone and spending the money on insurance instead.
> 
> You can imagine how that went down in iPhone-loving middle America.
> 
> ** * **​
> What has the president said about all this? Not much. He just wants the damn thing passed without too much discussion. Next week would be good.
> 
> It's also a safe bet that this beautiful, beautiful new plan is one of the few things on this earth Donald Trump doesn't want to see his name on.
> (CBC)​


A very interesting and intelligent article, Mark. I just read it on the actual CBC web site. I do like the writing and opinions of Neil Macdonald.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Alleged hacking.....


True, Rp ........ very "alleged", due to the lack of evidence. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"The suspect, who had a California driver's license, told Secret Service officers that he was there to see the president.

"No, I am a friend of the President. I have an appointment," the suspect said when approached by an officer."

This is no way to treat a friend of the president .................. plus he had an appointment. Maybe they were going to have a pre-dawn tweeting party?

Intruder breaches White House grounds, arrested near residence entrance - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Alleged hacking.....


There's just as much proof of that as there is that the Russians stole the election!


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> That does not bode well for the GOP, the US or his presidency.
> 
> "Stupid is as stupid does".


It does not bode well for the US.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> There's just as much proof of that as there is that the Russians stole the election!


A little more since the latest Wikileaks would indicate the probability at close to 100%


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The individual mandate idea was rooted in the basic concept of insurance: when more people buy insurance, the risk is spread more thinly, and everyone's premium drops as a result.


When I force anyone by law to buy my lousy product I can bring its price down. Sad thing is, prices just kept going up. it's immoral to force healthy people who aren't overweight and who don't smoke or drink into a pool that takes just anybody.




CubaMark said:


> If it's government screwing you, like Obama did, that's socialism. If it's a corporation screwing you, and profiting in the process, well, that's the American way. Freedom.


Both of these are government screwing you. It isn't a free market yet.



CubaMark said:


> Jason Chaffetz, another conservative congressional Republican, says Americans need to understand that under Trumpcare, it'll be time for people to take some personal responsibility for their medical care; he suggests not buying an iPhone and spending the money on insurance instead.
> 
> You can imagine how that went down in iPhone-loving middle America.


About time Americans heard the truth. They would pay for Netflix and buy an iPhone and then bawl they have no money left over for their own health care.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Use these blocks of cement to start the wall across the US/Mexican border.


----------



## Macfury

Well done, Donald--mission accomplished! Don't screw it up with more Obama-like fiddling.




CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Use these blocks of cement to start the wall across the US/Mexican border.



Dröll! Trés bien, mon ami!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Dröll! Trés bien, mon ami!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, it's a start.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> It does not bode well for the US.


As I said.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fireside chats | encyclopedia article by TheFreeDictionary

FDR had his fireside chats ............. Trump has his tweet storms ....................


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Fireside chats | encyclopedia article by TheFreeDictionary
> 
> 
> 
> FDR had his fireside chats ............. Trump has his tween storms ....................



Freudian slip? I know he likes them young, but.........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FUXL

When do you think the miscreant will be shedding his spouse for a new model? He's overdue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FUXL said:


> When do you think the miscreant will be shedding his spouse for a new model? He's overdue.



Well, they seem to be enjoying their trial separation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Freudian slip? I know he likes them young, but.........
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oops.  I blame that one on cold fingers. Just came in from sitting outside watching my dogs play in the backyard.


----------



## Macfury

Hey FUXL, do you know what an IP address is? Didn't think so. 



FUXL said:


> When do you think the miscreant will be shedding his spouse for a new model? He's overdue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Oops.  I blame that one on cold fingers. Just came in from sitting outside watching my dogs play in the backyard.



I thought it was pretty funny.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey FUXL, do you know what an IP address is? Didn't think so.



FUXL is the more liberal minded version of FeXL. Much more pleasant in conversation too.


----------



## Macfury

Perhaps. But he does not understand IP addresses.



Freddie_Biff said:


> FUXL is the more liberal minded version of FeXL. Much more pleasant in conversation too.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Perhaps. But he does not understand IP addresses.



Your point being? He is an improvement on the original at any rate. Are you spying on people's IP addresses now?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Are you spying on people's IP addresses now?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Perhaps. But he does not understand IP addresses.


Yep and those who know them, know exactly who this faker is and why he is assuming the second identity. He ought to be embarrassed for using such foolishness to his own ends.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I thought it was pretty funny.


I guess there was a bit of humor in my miscue.


----------



## screature

Truth be told I did exactly that on whatever the alternative website from ehMac was called.

I created a persona some time back (Ladyluck), the long timers here will remember ... nothing new in real or virtual land. 

For a few posts it was fun, being someone that you are not but still in the mind of the creator being ironic/satirical/truthful. Due to stupid IP addresses I got found out all too soon, before I could have some real fun. beejacon

Personas, have been around forever and serve artistic purposes. 

However, FUXL was just too obvious and ill planned... at least IMO as someone who has tried to create a persona in the past.


----------



## SINC

Ladyluck was discovered over there quite quickly as I recall. Much like FUXL was here. The only difference here is that it has only served to embarrass the guy himself for now, but not as much as exposing him publicly would with the rest of the board. If he relents, realizes the folly of his ways and shuts down the alias, I doubt he would be exposed by anyone. If not, well, he may very well wear the results of his ill fated escapade for all the world to see. Especially since he appeared to stop using it rather quickly. The recent start up has opened him up for exposure once again.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Truth be told I did exactly that on whatever the alternative website from ehMac was called.
> 
> 
> 
> I created a persona some time back (Ladyluck), the long timers here will remember ... nothing new in real or virtual land.
> 
> 
> 
> For a few posts it was fun, being someone that you are not but still in the mind of the creator being ironic/satirical/truthful. Due to stupid IP addresses I got found out all too soon, before I could have some real fun. beejacon
> 
> 
> 
> Personas, have been around forever and serve artistic purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> However, FUXL was just too obvious and ill planned... at least IMO as someone who has tried to create a persona in the past.



I'd have a conversation with FUXL over FeXL ten times out of ten. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'd have a conversation with FUXL over FeXL ten times out of ten.


You know what they say:

Most people talk to themselves as an extension of their inner thought processes. Research has shown that talking to oneself is generally psychologically healthy and even beneficial. However, excessive use of the practice could be a sign of mental problems.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> You know what they say:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people talk to themselves as an extension of their inner thought processes. Research has shown that talking to oneself is generally psychologically healthy and even beneficial. However, excessive use of the practice could be a sign of mental problems.



Interesting. But if FUXL is not me, then talking to FUXL, even if it is an alter-ego for someone else, it is not the same thing as talking to myself. However, we probably do tend to gravitate towards like-minded individuals when choosing who to talk with, probably as a reflection and reinforcement of our own core beliefs.


----------



## Macfury

This is the lowest sort of trolling.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is the lowest sort of trolling.



Oh, I've seen lower.


----------



## mguertin

screature said:


> Truth be told I did exactly that on whatever the alternative website from ehMac was called.
> 
> I created a persona some time back (Ladyluck), the long timers here will remember ... nothing new in real or virtual land.
> 
> For a few posts it was fun, being someone that you are not but still in the mind of the creator being ironic/satirical/truthful. Due to stupid IP addresses I got found out all too soon, before I could have some real fun. beejacon
> 
> Personas, have been around forever and serve artistic purposes.
> 
> However, FUXL was just too obvious and ill planned... at least IMO as someone who has tried to create a persona in the past.


And it's funny that what you call an artistic persona is exactly what the rest of the internet calls a TROLL. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll



> In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional ...


You people over here certainly have a pretty warped idea of what "fun" is don't you? I bet you also beat up kids that were smaller than you and stole candy from babies. YOU are exactly the type of bully that our parents all warned us about when we were kids. Please do the internet a favour and keep yourself segregated here with all the "cool" trolls.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Dumb. It hurts.... *

_Trump senior counselor Kellyanne Conway shares your struggle. On Sunday, apparently reacting to last week’s CIA WikiLeaks data dump, Conway told the Bergen Record that at this point, US citizens should consider all appliances compromised. Even their microwaves.

“There was an article this week that talked about how you can surveil someone through their phones, through their—certainly through their television sets, any number of different ways,” Conway said. “And *microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera. So we know that that is just a fact of modern life.*”_

** * **​
Microwave ovens are not an effective spy tool.

** * **​
But what if we were to take Conway not literally, but seriously? Asked whether a microwave could be turned into not a camera, specifically, but a listening device, Stephen Frasier, a microwave imaging and radar researcher at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, let out several seconds of sustained laughter.

“Unless it’s a voice-activated microwave oven connected to the internet I can’t think of a way,” says Frasier. Outside of a failed smart microwave Kickstarter, no microphone-equipped microwaves appear to exist. In fact, a quick check of major appliance manufacturers including GE, LG, and Samsung shows that internet-connected microwaves are a rarity. 

** * **​
Let’s go for the full benefit of the doubt though, and assume that Conway meant microwaves as in literal radio frequency waves. Those can, in fact, be used for imaging and communication. Consumer microwave ovens use these same waves to heat food. Does that mean we’re onto something?

Not quite. The whole purpose of those cooking devices is to hold the waves in, not let them out. “The actual oven where you put your food is what we call a cavity. It’s basically a closed box. Even though you can see through the front door, the microwaves can’t penetrate through that,” says Frasier. “Maybe if you’re licking the door you might get a little exposure, but they’re in there to cook your food.”

** * **​
Conway, too, may not be as concerned as she initially seemed. “I’m not Inspector Gadget. I don’t believe people are using the microwave to spy on the Trump campaign,” she told CNN on Monday. “However, I’m not in the job of having evidence, (Wired)​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *The Dumb. It hurts.... *


Your post is so dumb it hurts. What year do you think this is? "Smart microwaves" connected to the Internet are widely available.

IOTLIST - Discover the Internet of Things

https://juneoven.com/

Home Connect - Siemens Home Appliances

Cook Smarter With New Wi-Fi Kitchen Gadgets


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your post is so dumb it hurts. What year do you think this is? "Smart microwaves" connected to the Internet are widely available.
> 
> 
> 
> IOTLIST - Discover the Internet of Things
> 
> 
> 
> https://juneoven.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Home Connect - Siemens Home Appliances
> 
> 
> 
> Cook Smarter With New Wi-Fi Kitchen Gadgets



With cameras? Where can I get me one?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Your post is so dumb it hurts. What year do you think this is? "Smart microwaves" connected to the Internet are widely available.


Look, I'm not saying electronic devices are impervious to being hacked, read remotely, etc. Spies used to identify what was being typed depending on the kind of sound / vibration detected from a typewriter.

But if you had read the article, you'd perhaps realize that a microwave has no external sensors. Being "connected to the internet" isn't much help if the oven doesn't have a camera or microwave or *something* that receives input and relays it to the remote listener.

From the article cited:

_a quick check of major appliance manufacturers including GE, LG, and Samsung shows that internet-connected microwaves are a rarity. Even those that might exist in early-adopting kitchens would be far more likely to be conscripted into a botnet than used as a listening device._​
None of the links you provided show microwave ovens that can do anything other than receive remote commands from an iOS or Android app to pre-heat food, etc. 

Your defence of this wingnut is embarrassing...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Look, I'm not saying electronic devices are impervious to being hacked, read remotely, etc. Spies used to identify what was being typed depending on the kind of sound / vibration detected from a typewriter.
> 
> But if you had read the article, you'd perhaps realize that a microwave has no external sensors. Being "connected to the internet" isn't much help if the oven doesn't have a camera or microwave or *something* that receives input and relays it to the remote listener.


They have speakers that transmit speech. What does a TV have that makes it ideal for spying?


----------



## Dr.G.

"Spicer: Trump didn't mean wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping"

Well, now it all makes sense. We just all have to get used to listening/reading to what Pres. Trump says/writes and not take it literally. In the final analysis, it is our fault. Luckily, these sorts of "semantic rules" did not apply during the FDR or JFK inauguration, or "We have nothing to fear but fear itself ...." and "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" would have had totally different meanings. When will we ever learn????????????

In each of the tweets Trump fired off leveling the accusation, Trump referred specifically to phone tapping -- and only used quotation marks in two of those.

"Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory," Trump said in his first tweet.

"Is it legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president?" he asked in the next.

Then, Trump tweeted that Obama "was tapping my phones in October" and had stooped low "to tapp (sic) my phones during the very sacred election process."

Spicer: Trump didn't mean wiretapping when he tweeted about wiretapping - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## FeXL

FTFY...



Freddie_Biff said:


> FUXL is the more MT minded version of FeXL.


Good! I heard he habituates the weather thread. Go...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Much more pleasant in conversation too.


----------



## FeXL

Go. Weather thread. You can stroke each's others butthurt egos...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'd have a conversation with FUXL over FeXL ten times out of ten.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Go. Weather thread. You can stroke each's others butthurt egos...



You sound like the one who's "butthurt" now. Fact is, I just don't find you all that pleasant to talk to. Nothing personal.


----------



## Dr.G.

I have a feeling that the White House is setting up Rep. Ryan as the fall-guy if the Trumpcare bill, which Pres. Trump feels is "great", fails to pass in the House due to the reality that some members in the House realize that this bill will hurt many of the poor and elderly in their home districts. Personally, I don't think that the bill, in it's current form, will pass in the Senate. Thus, will some members of the House of Representatives vote for a bill that might ultimately fail to be passed ........... and, at the same time, jeopardize their chances of being reelected? This way, it is Ryan's fault that the bill did not pass. An interesting strategy if I am correct. We shall see.

Breitbart vs. Paul Ryan: Website publishes audio of Speaker trashing Trump - Mar. 14, 2017


" The timing of Breitbart's publication is telling. In recent days, the pro-Trump site has run one negative story after another about the House GOP's health care bill, despite the president's endorsement of the legislation. 

Breitbart, which was previously run by current White House strategist Steve Bannon, has reserved most of its negative coverage on the bill for Ryan. The site has derisively branded the legislation as "House Speaker Paul Ryan's Obamacare 2.0 plan." "


----------



## Macfury

It won't pass because it is not market-based. 



Dr.G. said:


> I have a feeling that the White House is setting up Rep. Ryan as the fall-guy if the Trumpcare bill, which Pres. Trump feels is "great", fails to pass in the House due to the reality that some members in the House realize that this bill will hurt many of the poor and elderly in their home districts. Personally, I don't think that the bill, in it's current form, will pass in the Senate. Thus, will some members of the House of Representatives vote for a bill that might ultimately fail to be passed ........... and, at the same time, jeopardize their chances of being reelected? This way, it is Ryan's fault that the bill did not pass. An interesting strategy if I am correct. We shall see.
> 
> Breitbart vs. Paul Ryan: Website publishes audio of Speaker trashing Trump - Mar. 14, 2017
> 
> 
> " The timing of Breitbart's publication is telling. In recent days, the pro-Trump site has run one negative story after another about the House GOP's health care bill, despite the president's endorsement of the legislation.
> 
> Breitbart, which was previously run by current White House strategist Steve Bannon, has reserved most of its negative coverage on the bill for Ryan. The site has derisively branded the legislation as "House Speaker Paul Ryan's Obamacare 2.0 plan." "


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It won't pass because it is not market-based.


I just heard a leading Tea Party House Republican say the same thing, Macfury. Still, if it passes, Pres. Trump takes the credit ........... if it fails, Rep. Ryan takes the fall. Very convenient.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The above would not be true in a market-based system. It isn't even close now.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you won't lose it.

--Barack Obama


----------



## FeXL

Not hardly. I jes' knows who I'm dealing with.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sound like the one who's "butthurt" now.


The day you find yourself amenable to me is the day I commit ritual seppuku with a dull butter knife...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Fact is, I just don't find you all that pleasant to talk to.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you won't lose it.
> 
> --Barack Obama


Fine words ........... while he was president. Now with Trumpcare, all bets are off.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> The site has derisively branded the legislation as "House Speaker Paul Ryan's Obamacare 2.0 plan."


'Cause that's exactly what it is. Obamacare Lite.

If this is PDT's solution to the Charlie Foxtrot then in my eyes it is his first failure.

And apparently I'm not alone in that thinking...


----------



## CubaMark

*Fearing border harassment, Girl Guides of Canada cancel all trips to Trump's America*












> The Girl Guides of Canada -- Canada's largest organisation for girls and women -- have a long tradition of visiting other scouts in the USA, to the benefit of both American and Canadian scouts, but that's come to an end, because Canada's Girl Guides are worried that Muslim girls, brown girls, and girls whose families come from countries singled out for discrimination by the Trump regime will face discrimination at the border.
> 
> The announcement follows on a series of high-profile incidents in which non-white Canadians were harassed, threatened and turned away at the US border.
> 
> The Guides didn't mention Trump by name in their announcement, but they talked about Guiding's tradition of diversity and inclusivity and the worry that "some girls could get left behind when a group tried to enter the US."
> 
> Canadian schools are also talking about cancelling all of their field-trips to the USA.


(BoingBoing)​


----------



## Macfury

This is just virtue signalling by "progs."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Fine words ........... while he was president. Now with Trumpcare, all bets are off.



Do you ever get the feeling that Trump and the New Order are hell bent on change for the sake of change, regardless of whether the change actually improves anything? It's like dogs marking their territory.


----------



## Macfury

No I don't. That was "Trainwreck" Obama.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you ever get the feeling that Trump and the New Order are hell bent on change for the sake of change, regardless of whether the change actually improves anything? It's like dogs marking their territory.


----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## MazterCBlazter

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you ever get the feeling that Trump and the New Order are hell bent on change for the sake of change, regardless of whether the change actually improves anything? It's like dogs marking their territory.


Dogs exhibit far more intelligence when they go about their business than anyting Trump and his cronies have done in the White House.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Cooper would make a far better president.​


----------



## MazterCBlazter

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1461177903975259/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

MazterCBlazter said:


> Dogs exhibit far more intelligence when they go about their business than anyting Trump and his cronies have done in the White House.



The evidence seems overwhelming. Nice meme by the way. Everybody covered. Now you covered too.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Europe responds to the AmericanTrump's racist travel ban.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/world/europe/eu-visas-parliament-united-states.html?_r=0


----------



## Macfury

The EU is sinking under the weight of it own "progressivism." Maybe they'll get the regs through before the EU breaks up.


----------



## CubaMark

*Texans Receive First Notices of Land Condemnation for Trump’s Border Wall*










The week before Donald Trump’s inauguration, Yvette Salinas received a letter she had been dreading for years: legal notice that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) wants to build a border wall on her family’s land in Los Ebanos. The 21-page document, entitled a “Declaration of Taking,” is addressed to her ailing mother, Maria Flores, who owns the property with her siblings. The letter offers Flores $2,900 for 1.2 acres near the Rio Grande. If she chooses not to accept the offer, the land could be seized through eminent domain. “It’s scary when you read it,” Salinas says. “You feel like you have to sign.”

The 16-acre property has been in the family for so long that none of them can remember the year it was acquired. Salinas only knows they’ve had it for five generations. 

** * **​
Aleida Garcia, Salinas’ cousin, said the government has increased security in the area by adding more surveillance, which she prefers to Trump’s proposed 30-foot wall. “Even if they build a wall, people will still come,” said Garcia. “What’s helped us tremendously and is less expensive is the technology — the aerostat balloons, the ground sensors and even boots on the ground.”

But Los Ebanos appears to be a prime target for the Trump administration. The surveying and planning work has already been done, and the Secure Fence Act authorizes more border fencing to be built. And in 2012, the United States half of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a binational organization tasked with managing the U.S.-Mexico water treaty, capitulated to lobbying by DHS and agreed to a wall in the floodplain.
(Texas Observer)​


----------



## CubaMark

_Not only is TrumpCare going to screw over US citizens who need medical care, Trump's new immigration policies are having an even more immediate effect:_

*Trump immigration policies kill work visas for specialized Canadian nurses*

Canadian nurses working at Michigan hospitals were shocked last week when border security officers stopped them from entering the U.S. because of changes to their working visas under new immigration policies.

Staff at Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital heard reports of nurses unable to renew their working visas.

** * **​
advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists no longer qualify for the working visas because of policy changes under U.S. President Donald Trump.

"We really question the motives," said immigration lawyer Marc Topoleski, whose firm is retained by the hospital. "All of the immigration executive orders and all the things being rolled out have been focused on national security first, and this is clearly not an issue of national security whatsoever."

** * **​
Only advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists are being rejected. All Canadian nurses working in the U.S. have non-immigrant NAFTA professional (TN) visas.

An estimated 30,000 to 40,000 Canadians work in the U.S with TN visas, which allow experts in certain fields — like economics and science — a fast track, provided they have a job offer.

Henry Ford Hospital alone has hundreds of Canadians on staff, with about 25 advanced practice nurses or nurse anesthetists with TN visas.​
(CBC)


----------



## Macfury

Guess they will hire Americans instead!


----------



## Macfury

How else can they build a wall, except to buy the land? If this were the Cuban Revolution and they were just appropriating the property, you would be applauding!




CubaMark said:


> *Texans Receive First Notices of Land Condemnation for Trump’s Border Wall*
> 
> The week before Donald Trump’s inauguration, Yvette Salinas received a letter she had been dreading for years: legal notice that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) wants to build a border wall on her family’s land in Los Ebanos. The 21-page document, entitled a “Declaration of Taking,” is addressed to her ailing mother, Maria Flores, who owns the property with her siblings. The letter offers Flores $2,900 for 1.2 acres near the Rio Grande. If she chooses not to accept the offer, the land could be seized through eminent domain. “It’s scary when you read it,” Salinas says. “You feel like you have to sign.”
> 
> The 16-acre property has been in the family for so long that none of them can remember the year it was acquired. Salinas only knows they’ve had it for five generations.
> 
> ** * **​
> Aleida Garcia, Salinas’ cousin, said the government has increased security in the area by adding more surveillance, which she prefers to Trump’s proposed 30-foot wall. “Even if they build a wall, people will still come,” said Garcia. “What’s helped us tremendously and is less expensive is the technology — the aerostat balloons, the ground sensors and even boots on the ground.”
> 
> But Los Ebanos appears to be a prime target for the Trump administration. The surveying and planning work has already been done, and the Secure Fence Act authorizes more border fencing to be built. And in 2012, the United States half of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a binational organization tasked with managing the U.S.-Mexico water treaty, capitulated to lobbying by DHS and agreed to a wall in the floodplain.
> (Texas Observer)​


----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## MazterCBlazter

CubaMark said:


> _Not only is TrumpCare going to screw over US citizens who need medical care, Trump's new immigration policies are having an even more immediate effect:_
> 
> *Trump immigration policies kill work visas for specialized Canadian nurses*
> 
> Canadian nurses working at Michigan hospitals were shocked last week when border security officers stopped them from entering the U.S. because of changes to their working visas under new immigration policies.
> 
> Staff at Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital heard reports of nurses unable to renew their working visas.
> 
> ** * **​
> advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists no longer qualify for the working visas because of policy changes under U.S. President Donald Trump.
> 
> "We really question the motives," said immigration lawyer Marc Topoleski, whose firm is retained by the hospital. "All of the immigration executive orders and all the things being rolled out have been focused on national security first, and this is clearly not an issue of national security whatsoever."
> 
> ** * **​
> Only advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists are being rejected. All Canadian nurses working in the U.S. have non-immigrant NAFTA professional (TN) visas.
> 
> An estimated 30,000 to 40,000 Canadians work in the U.S with TN visas, which allow experts in certain fields — like economics and science — a fast track, provided they have a job offer.
> 
> Henry Ford Hospital alone has hundreds of Canadians on staff, with about 25 advanced practice nurses or nurse anesthetists with TN visas.​
> (CBC)


Trump said he likes the cross border deal with Canada. 

What's next?


----------



## Macfury

Khan's tactics are two dimensional, while Trump's are three-dimensional!


----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How else can they build a wall, except to buy the land? If this were the Cuban Revolution and they were just appropriating the property, you would be applauding!



The wall is an idiotic idea in the first place and will do nothing to prevent illegal immigrants from entering the country in any event. Tunnels will still exist and people can still fly in. It would be nice if the wall could prevent the entry of alt-right white supremacist racists, but they're already at home in the US and have a very large installed base.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

MazterCBlazter said:


>



Bwahahahahahahah!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Not sure why everyone is poo pooing the microwave spying bit. The electricity 'smart meter' in your home has been spying on you every day for years now.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Trump Just Announced Plan To End 'Meals On Wheels' For Seniors


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Macfury said:


> Khan's tactics are two dimensional, while Trump's are three-dimensional!


:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Not sure why everyone is poo pooing the microwave spying bit. The electricity 'smart meter' in your home has been spying on you every day for years now.



Yes, but nobody has ever contemplated the microwave-as-camera concept until Kellyannn mentioned it.


----------



## FUXL

Oh boy oh boy. Pro-life birther Trumpite:

Ralph Shortey: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com


----------



## MazterCBlazter




----------



## MazterCBlazter

A wall around the Trump Star in Hollywood.


----------



## Macfury

That gag has been around for 50 years! Used to be ascribed to various regional and national groups.



MazterCBlazter said:


>


----------



## FeXL

Yeah! Can you imagine the land they'll need to buy if they build that proposed nationwide interstate highway system?



CubaMark said:


> Texans Receive First Notices of Land Condemnation for Trump’s Border Wall


----------



## MazterCBlazter

I have been seeing many people on facebook who were very pro Trump up to the election becoming very quiet lately. This fellow is expressing his regret on supporting and voting for Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Pardon my candor but using Assbook as a measuring stick for anything but basic stupidity is folly...

That said, I'm sure there are just as many people who question their prior support of Bill's Wife.



MazterCBlazter said:


> I have been seeing many people on facebook who were very pro Trump up to the election becoming very quiet lately. This fellow is expressing his regret on supporting and voting for Trump.


----------



## Macfury

All I see is a picture of some Democrat with a red hat and a sign. You'll always find voters with regrets. Look at Alberta and the sorrow over casting their votes for Notley.


----------



## chasMac

Trumps's doing or trying to do much of what he promised. What then, has got these supposed supporters' knickers in a twist?


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> Trumps's doing or trying to do much of what he promised. What then, has got these supposed supporters' knickers in a twist?


Never seen any politician trying harder to keep his campaign promises. They are probably in the 1/10 of 1% who are perpetually disappointed in everything.


----------



## Dr.G.

President Donald Trump is coming under fire for proposing a budget that includes the complete elimination of federal funding for Meals on Wheels programs.

Meals on Wheels provides food to the elderly, poor, veterans, disabled and others who often can’t leave their homes. Since this is mainly funded through HUD, with Dr. Ben Carson at the helm, I wonder if he will cite the physical and mental health risks that this poses for seniors, vets, et al? We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...58d4a988474_story.html?utm_term=.ad850d8d43a5

Sadly, I know that there are some who will be dancing in the streets over these cuts, as well as for the increase in defense spending. I, for one, am NOT one of them. I have second thoughts about posting this comment, since I know that there is going to be opposition to this POV. Just PLEASE, keep the discussion, regardless of your side, civil. Merci, mes amis.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...58d4a988474_story.html?utm_term=.ad850d8d43a5
> 
> Sadly, I know that there are some who will be dancing in the streets over these cuts, as well as for the increase in defense spending. I, for one, am NOT one of them. I have second thoughts about posting this comment, since I know that there is going to be opposition to this POV. Just PLEASE, keep the discussion, regardless of your side, civil. Merci, mes amis.


I disagree with the majority of Trump's cuts and increased military spending. I do not shed any tears for cuts to the arts though. I firmly believe if you love the arts, pay for your own entertainment. I tire of seeing my tax dollars going to venues and causes that I have never once in my life participated in, like theatre, opera, ballet, and 'subsidized' dance studios, pottery groups, painting groups, art galleries and the like.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> I disagree with the majority of Trump's cuts and increased military spending. I do not shed any tears for cuts to the arts though. I firmly believe if you love the arts, pay for your own entertainment. I tire of seeing my tax dollars going to venues and causes that I have never once in my life participated in, like theatre, opera, ballet, and 'subsidized' dance studios, pottery groups, painting groups, art galleries and the like.


I too disagree with the increase in military spending. While I disagree with this point re the arts, I REALLY appreciate your keeping the discussion civil and without flames. Merci, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

FeXL said:


> Pardon my candor but using Assbook as a measuring stick for anything but basic stupidity is folly...
> 
> That said, I'm sure there are just as many people who question their prior support of Bill's Wife.


You who base your beleif system on all the extremist right wing nutbar BS sites? 

Very few people regret supporting Hillary compared to the fascist in office.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

SINC said:


> I disagree with the majority of Trump's cuts and increased military spending. I do not shed any tears for cuts to the arts though. I firmly believe if you love the arts, pay for your own entertainment. I tire of seeing my tax dollars going to venues and causes that I have never once in my life participated in, like theatre, opera, ballet, and 'subsidized' dance studios, pottery groups, painting groups, art galleries and the like.


Having these programs avaiable for young people has been very effective at keeping them out of gangs and out of trouble. I see great vaule in these programs whether I participate in any of them or not.

By cutting funding for these things, makes it easier for the Prisons for Profit to succeeed.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

Dr.G. said:


> President Donald Trump is coming under fire for proposing a budget that includes the complete elimination of federal funding for Meals on Wheels programs.
> 
> Meals on Wheels provides food to the elderly, poor, veterans, disabled and others who often can’t leave their homes. Since this is mainly funded through HUD, with Dr. Ben Carson at the helm, I wonder if he will cite the physical and mental health risks that this poses for seniors, vets, et al? We shall see.


Not surprising, just disgusting.


----------



## Macfury

The federal government should not have its octopus tentacles in every program. Cut the fed budget, return the money to the states and let them decide what is important.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The federal government should not have its octopus tentacles in every program. Cut the fed budget, return the money to the states and let them decide what is important.


I see your point, Macfury. Still, how might the federal government insure that funds sent to each state are used for the intended purposes (e.g., subsidized food programs for school children, seniors and vets)? Thanks for keeping the discussion civil. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

MazterCBlazter said:


> Not surprising, just disgusting.


Sadly, I would be amazed if Dr. Ben Carson, head of HUD, stood up to Pres. Trump and said that these cuts were going to hurt various people. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Another conspiracy in the making???????

"WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Hinting darkly that “there’s something going on,” Donald J. Trump complained on Friday that he has been treated “very unfairly” by the people who wrote the United States Constitution.

“If the Constitution prevented me from doing one or two things, I’d chalk that up to bad luck,” he said. “But when literally everything I want to do is magically a violation of the Constitution, that’s very unfair and bad treatment.”

Lashing out at the document’s authors, Trump said that “America is a great country, but we have maybe the worst constitution writers in the world.”

“Russia has much better constitution writers than we do,” he said. “I talked to Putin, and he said their constitution never gives him problems.”

“The situation is very unfair!” he added. 

In an ominous warning, Trump said that, as of Friday, he was putting the writers of the U.S. Constitution “on notice.”

“I don’t have their names yet, but that’s something I’m looking into,” he said. “These jokers are not going to get away with this.” "

Trump Says He Has Been Treated Very Unfairly by People Who Wrote Constitution - The New Yorker


----------



## FeXL

CubaMark, is that you? :yikes:



MazterCBlazter said:


> You who base your beleif system on all the extremist right wing nutbar BS sites?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> CubaMark, is that you? :yikes:


Heh - nope. But it was only a matter of time for others to come to the same conclusion about your penchant for, shall we say, _creative_ source material.

:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Replace "Trump" with "Obama" in the story linked below, and you'd see the usual suspects in here screaming for his head.

Interesting that hasn't happened....

Donald Trump on witness list for civil case involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein (The Independent)

_In the affidavit filed in support of case, Mr Edwards claims that Mark Epstein (Jeffrey’s brother) testified that Mr Trump flew on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane with him, LegalNewz.com reported.

“Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.

Court records in an earlier civil case against Mr Epstein allege that he molested more than 40 girls between 2002 and 2005 at his Florida mansion.

There is no evidence to suggest any involvement from Mr Trump, but the records claim that “message pads confiscated from Epstein’s home indicated that Trump called Epstein’s West Palm Beach mansion on several occasions”.

It also quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

In 2007, Epstein was given what critics branded a “sweetheart” deal by federal prosecutors over allegations he sexually assaulted young girls.

The deal was overseen by Alexander Acosta, Mr Trump’s now Labour Secretary nominee. Mr Acosta is expected to face questions on the issue at his upcoming Senate confirmation hearing.

The non-prosecution agreement ensured Epstein and any “co-conspirators” would not be prosecuted federally in exchange for the billionaire pleading guilty to state charges. _​


----------



## Macfury

I read this stuff months ago. Al it says is that Trump called Epstein. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, flew to Epstein's "Lolita Island" many times.




CubaMark said:


> Replace "Trump" with "Obama" in the story linked below, and you'd see the usual suspects in here screaming for his head.
> 
> Interesting that hasn't happened....
> 
> Donald Trump on witness list for civil case involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein (The Independent)
> 
> _In the affidavit filed in support of case, Mr Edwards claims that Mark Epstein (Jeffrey’s brother) testified that Mr Trump flew on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane with him, LegalNewz.com reported.
> 
> “Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.
> 
> Court records in an earlier civil case against Mr Epstein allege that he molested more than 40 girls between 2002 and 2005 at his Florida mansion.
> 
> There is no evidence to suggest any involvement from Mr Trump, but the records claim that “message pads confiscated from Epstein’s home indicated that Trump called Epstein’s West Palm Beach mansion on several occasions”.
> 
> It also quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
> 
> In 2007, Epstein was given what critics branded a “sweetheart” deal by federal prosecutors over allegations he sexually assaulted young girls.
> 
> The deal was overseen by Alexander Acosta, Mr Trump’s now Labour Secretary nominee. Mr Acosta is expected to face questions on the issue at his upcoming Senate confirmation hearing.
> 
> The non-prosecution agreement ensured Epstein and any “co-conspirators” would not be prosecuted federally in exchange for the billionaire pleading guilty to state charges. _​


----------



## Dr.G.

I think that Press Sect. Sean Spicer has the hardest position in the Trump administration. He is trying to juggle five bowling balls at one, all the while trying to sit atop of a drunken giraffe on roller skates. Just heard his press briefing. He again said that Pres. Trump "stands by" unproven allegation that Obama ordered wiretapping of Trump tower ........ and actually cited the New York Times, the Washington Post and the National Review as backing up these claims. It all came off the rails when he got into a discussion the wiretapping meant a whole range of surveillance , and the how could Trump's phone be tapped since it was a wireless cell phone, and thus, had no wires to be tapped. His is NOT an easy job. While I don't agree with much of what he says, I have to give him credit for standing there day after day and somehow holding it all together.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I read this stuff months ago. Al it says is that Trump called Epstein. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, flew to Epstein's "Lolita Island" many times.


Yup - lots of circumstantial evidence that Clinton was involved in something illicit there. 

But... this is about Trump. Why the attempt at misdirection?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Replace "Trump" with "Obama" in the story linked below, and you'd see the usual suspects in here screaming for his head.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that hasn't happened....
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump on witness list for civil case involving billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein (The Independent)
> 
> 
> 
> _In the affidavit filed in support of case, Mr Edwards claims that Mark Epstein (Jeffrey’s brother) testified that Mr Trump flew on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane with him, LegalNewz.com reported.
> 
> 
> 
> “Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Court records in an earlier civil case against Mr Epstein allege that he molested more than 40 girls between 2002 and 2005 at his Florida mansion.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no evidence to suggest any involvement from Mr Trump, but the records claim that “message pads confiscated from Epstein’s home indicated that Trump called Epstein’s West Palm Beach mansion on several occasions”.
> 
> 
> 
> It also quotes an interview with Mr Trump, featured in New York Magazine, in which he said: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it, Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
> 
> 
> 
> In 2007, Epstein was given what critics branded a “sweetheart” deal by federal prosecutors over allegations he sexually assaulted young girls.
> 
> 
> 
> The deal was overseen by Alexander Acosta, Mr Trump’s now Labour Secretary nominee. Mr Acosta is expected to face questions on the issue at his upcoming Senate confirmation hearing.
> 
> 
> 
> The non-prosecution agreement ensured Epstein and any “co-conspirators” would not be prosecuted federally in exchange for the billionaire pleading guilty to state charges. _​




To read between the lines a little...

He's a terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. And as for the ages of the girls At his parties—which are awesome, by the way—don't ask, don't tell. Got to maintain some semblance of plausible deniability, you know. And also, let's not tell Melania or Ivanka about these parties, m'kay? Tiffany—who's Tiffany? Yeah, she's the black sheep. Don't pay attention to her. Or her body language. The only way anyone could know what went on is if they wiretapped Epstein's house—which is a felony, by the way.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Yup - lots of circumstantial evidence that Clinton was involved in something illicit there.
> 
> 
> 
> But... this is about Trump. Why the attempt at misdirection?



Why indeed.


----------



## Macfury

I'm mentioning it for context. One guy flew to the island many times--another had his name in a phone directory.



CubaMark said:


> Yup - lots of circumstantial evidence that Clinton was involved in something illicit there.
> 
> But... this is about Trump. Why the attempt at misdirection?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It must be getting increasingly difficult for right-wingers to defend Trump's "alternate reality." His own words undermine the credibility of his statements. This guy will be sued for slander/libel/false accusations AND end up being impeached. 












> What Made Trump So Sure Obama “Wiretapped” Him? A Fox News Segment the Night Before, He Says.
> 
> By Elliot Hannon
> 
> Fox News aired an interview between host Tucker Carlson and President Trump Wednesday night. At one point, the topic of conversation turned to Trump’s chaos-inducing tweet on March 4th accusing his predecessor, Barack Obama, of “wire tapping” Trump Tower.
> 
> 
> It’s a serious charge and the White House has been pushed daily to explain why the sitting president of the United States believes he was being spied on. Shockingly, there does not appear to be any “evidence”—in the traditional, literal sense of the word—to back Trump’s claims. To his credit, Carlson asked Trump where he got his information. The answer and the two-plus minute back-and-forth pretty much sums it up: Trump made it up. More specifically, “I’ve been reading about things,” Trump replied. Trump proceeded to explain how he read a New York Times story once, dated the day of his inauguration, and that what really cinched it for him was, wait for it, a segment on Fox News with Bret Baier the day before his tweet.
> 
> “If you watched Bret Baier and what he was saying and what he was talking about and how he mentioned the word ‘wiretap,’ you would feel very confident that you could mention the name,” Trump explained to Carlson. “I watched your friend Bret Baier the day previous where he was talking about certain very complex sets of things happening, and wiretapping. I said, wait a minute, there’s a lot of wiretapping being talked about.”
> 
> It is hard to fully describe how clownish the president of the United States looks during this portion of the interview. The interview is worth watching for the full extent of Trump's utter disregard for the truth, but a partial transcript is below.
> 
> Carlson: So on March 4th, 6:35 in the morning, you’re down in Florida, and you tweet, the former administration wiretapped me, surveilled me, at Trump Tower during the last election. How did you find out? You said, I just found out. How did you learn that?
> Trump: Well, I’ve been reading about things. I read in, I think it was Jan. 20th, a New York Times article where they were talking about wiretapping. There was an article. I think they used that exact term. I read other things. I watched your friend Bret Baier the day previous where he was talking about certain very complex sets of things happening, and wiretapping. I said, wait a minute, there’s a lot of wiretapping being talked about. I’ve been seeing a lot of things. Now, for the most part, I’m not going to discuss it, because we have it before the committee and we will be submitting things before the committee very soon that hasn’t been submitted as of yet. But it’s potentially a very serious situation.
> Carlson: Why not wait to tweet about it until you can prove it? Don’t you devalue your words when you can’t provide evidence?
> Trump: Well, because the New York Times wrote about it. Not that I respect the New York Times. I call it the failing New York Times. But they did write on Jan. 20th using the word wiretap. Other people have come out with…
> Carlson: Right, but you’re the president. You have the ability to gather all the evidence you want.
> Trump: I do. I do. But I think that frankly we have a lot right now. And I think if you watch—if you watched the Bret Baier and what he was saying and what he was talking about and how he mentioned the word “wiretap,” you would feel very confident that you could mention the name. He mentioned it. And other people have mentioned it. But if you take a look at some of the things written about wiretapping and eavesdropping… and don’t forget I say wiretapping, those words were in quotes. That really covers—because wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff—but that really covers surveillance and many other things. And nobody ever talks about the fact that it was in quotes, but that’s a very important thing. But wire tape covers a lot of different things. I think you’re going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks.
> 
> Next: DOJ Wants More Time to Find “Evidence” of Trump Tower Wiretap, Double-Check Microwaves
> 
> By Elliot Hannon....


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...e&tse_id=INF_0307ba300a7c11e79b1a07d5f3e08d7d


----------



## Macfury

Trump is cracking me up with the way he's screwing around with his detractors. He's citing the _New York Times_ because he wants to see the mainstream media--and prog sycophants such as yourself--to begin devaluing the _New York Times_.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sean Spicer said that it might have been the British Intelligence Agency that might be the ones tapping Trump in Trump towers. So, this goes back to Trump's original accusation ............. Pres. Obama was born in Kenya .......... Kenya joined the British Commonwealth on December 12th, 1963 ...................... just two years after Barack Obama was born ................. Pres. Obama produces his Hawaiian birth certificate, but Trump says that this official piece of paper was a fraud .............. Pres. Trump meets with British PM Elizabeth May in Jan. of this year, when she said "I have today been able to convey Her Majesty the Queen's hope that President Trump and the First Lady would pay a state visit to the United Kingdom later this year and I'm delighted that the president has accepted that invitation." ................. Queen Elizabeth II orders the wiretapping ................... the plot thickens and the conspiracy starts to come full circle. How did the "main stream media", and even Fox News, miss all of this??????


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I'm mentioning it for context. One guy flew to the island many times--another had his name in a phone directory.


No, it's misdirection pure and simple.

And as for the "phone directory"...

14 numbers (house, car, mobile, other house, bodyguard, chauffeur, etc.) implies a little closer relationship than "looked him up at 411.com".

In any case, innocent until proven guilty. Oh, wait, the deal that was cut apparently means that co-conspirators cannot be charged? I can't be reading that right....


----------



## SINC

Seems to me that when the husband of the only other candidate in the race for president turns up as being verified to haunt the same locations, it becomes more than relevant, it becomes necessary to report by any credible reporter. Calling it a misdirection is a failure to understand the connections that exist.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Trump is cracking me up with the way he's screwing around with his detractors.


The tax return thing was a mess. Did Maddow not know the information beforehand? 

I think the specific wording during the campaign was that Trump *could *have paid no taxes since his billion dollar loss (ie. until he made more than a billion in profits to offset the loss). That 'could' happily morphed, the way media hyped things do, into 'did not', or at least 'likely did not' for many people.

Now the breaking news is that he did pay taxes in at least one year? Thanks.


----------



## SINC

FUXL said:


> Oh boy oh boy. Pro-life birther Trumpite:
> 
> Ralph Shortey: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com


.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sean Spicer said that it might have been the British Intelligence Agency that might be the ones tapping Trump in Trump towers. So, this goes back to Trump's original accusation ............. Pres. Obama was born in Kenya .......... Kenya joined the British Commonwealth on December 12th, 1963 ...................... just two years after Barack Obama was born ................. Pres. Obama produces his Hawaiian birth certificate, but Trump says that this official piece of paper was a fraud .............. Pres. Trump meets with British PM Elizabeth May in Jan. of this year, when she said "I have today been able to convey Her Majesty the Queen's hope that President Trump and the First Lady would pay a state visit to the United Kingdom later this year and I'm delighted that the president has accepted that invitation." ................. Queen Elizabeth II orders the wiretapping ................... the plot thickens and the conspiracy starts to come full circle. How did the "main stream media", and even Fox News, miss all of this??????



Trump states a hypothesis, and then sends his people to search for facts and information that might back up that hypothesis. Most people would observe first and then develop a hypothesis based on their observations.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump states a hypothesis, and then sends his people to search for facts and information that might back up that hypothesis. Most people would observe first and then develop a hypothesis based on their observations.


Frank, your second point sounds too much like the scientific method. I think that form of research was cut in the new budget. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Just like Globull Warming, right?

Haven't heard your criticism of them...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump states a hypothesis, and then sends his people to search for facts and information that might back up that hypothesis.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Just like Globull Warming, right?
> 
> Haven't heard your criticism of them...


Time for a referee meme?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Time for a referee meme?


Either that or more talking to himself.


----------



## Dr.G.

Washington (CNN) — "Most voters -- 55% -- say they disapprove of President Donald Trump's handling of health care, while just 35% said they approved, according to a new Fox News poll released Wednesday."

Fox News had better be careful presenting stats that run counter to what the Trump Administration believes, or they will be sent to the "fake news" category. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Frank, your second point sounds too much like the scientific method. I think that form of research was cut in the new budget. Paix, mon ami.



Ah yes. Best watch my back.


----------



## Macfury

Of the 55% who disapprove, 11% disapprove because it doesn't go far enough to dismantle Obamacare. So essentially 56% think Trump is heading in the right direction on health care.

The poll interviewed 45% Democrat and 36% Republican, so the naysayers are likely the entire set of Democrat respondents.



Dr.G. said:


> Washington (CNN) — "Most voters -- 55% -- say they disapprove of President Donald Trump's handling of health care, while just 35% said they approved, according to a new Fox News poll released Wednesday."
> 
> Fox News had better be careful presenting stats that run counter to what the Trump Administration believes, or they will be sent to the "fake news" category. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Just like Globull Warming, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard your criticism of them...



Well FeXL, that's because scientists actually study the climate patterns and then notice any fluctuations before they form a hypothesis. You know, the scientific method that you defend so rigourously.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Either that or more talking to himself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Washington (CNN) — "Most voters -- 55% -- say they disapprove of President Donald Trump's handling of health care, while just 35% said they approved, according to a new Fox News poll released Wednesday."
> 
> 
> 
> Fox News had better be careful presenting stats that run counter to what the Trump Administration believes, or they will be sent to the "fake news" category. We shall see.



But then there will be no news left. Except for Breitbart. And the POTUS Twitter decree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well FeXL, that's because scientists actually study the climate patterns and then notice any fluctuations before they form a hypothesis. You know, the scientific method that you defend so rigourously.


Freddie, you're completely clueless on this. The hypothesis is baked into the climate models which are not based on real life phenomena. When asked to forecast, most are horribly off base. When asked to backcast--that is, use the model to accurately determine what has already demonstrably happened--they also fail. 

Repeat after me: The scientific method can only be used to test a hypothesis if there is an accurate way to test data, and that test can be replicated. 

If you fill one greenhouse with normal atmosphere and another greenhouse with 100% CO2, guess which one heats up fastest? It's been tried.


----------



## FeXL

If the climate "scientists" had actually studied the data, we wouldn't be in the middle of this expensive, taxpayer funded mess...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well FeXL, that's because scientists actually study the climate patterns and then notice any fluctuations before they form a hypothesis. You know, the scientific method that you defend so rigourously.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump states a hypothesis, and then sends his people to search for facts and information that might back up that hypothesis. Most people would observe first and then develop a hypothesis based on their observations.


So you are agreeing with me that the ACGW hypothesis is complete bull? Remember they started with the hypothesis, then warped the data to try and make it fit the hypothesis.

The scientists who do study the data and various cycles, are trying to warn us we may be headed into another minimum phase.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well FeXL, that's because scientists actually study the climate patterns and then notice any fluctuations before they form a hypothesis. You know, the scientific method that you defend so rigourously.





Macfury said:


> Freddie, you're completely clueless on this. The hypothesis is baked into the climate models which are not based on real life phenomena. When asked to forecast, most are horribly off base. When asked to backcast--that is, use the model to accurately determine what has already demonstrably happened--they also fail.
> 
> Repeat after me: The scientific method can only be used to test a hypothesis if there is an accurate way to test data, and that test can be replicated.
> 
> If you fill one greenhouse with normal atmosphere and another greenhouse with 100% CO2, guess which one heats up fastest? It's been tried.


Gee I addressed that in Byte sized bits over in the Alberta NDP thread, knowing Red Freddie read there. Not once did he find any cracks in my quick presentations, yet he still buys the official ACGW propaganda?

BTW MF would love a link to that test if you have it.

For the record I became an ACGW skeptic by trying to find real evidence supporting the hypothesis. A red necked bud challenged me to do just that. Since it was one of those rare times he did not attempt to intimidate me into agreement, I accepted the challenge. I figured the famous tobacco lobby science whore had to be wrong, so how hard could the theory be to corroborate. Turns out it was completely impossible. 

Here for Freddies quick review are just some of the bits I discovered, while attempting to support the ACGW hypothesis:
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-216.html#post2423802
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-221.html#post2425329
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-222.html#post2425793
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-224.html#post2427201
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-235.html#post2435265
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-242.html#post2438393
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/134705-alberta-ndp-thread-244.html#post2439113

I will issue the same challenge. If all of this has failed to shake your faith, then go out there and show me real RAW data to support The Great Goreacle's fantastical claims. For that matter show me how the temperature of the planet can even be established accurately today, and 500 or 1000 years ago.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Gee I addressed that in Byte sized bits over in the Alberta NDP thread, knowing Red Freddie read there.


Should have posted it in the Religion thread...


----------



## screature

mguertin said:


> And it's funny that what you call an artistic persona is exactly what the rest of the internet calls a TROLL.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
> 
> You people over here certainly have a pretty warped idea of what "fun" is don't you? *I bet you also beat up kids that were smaller than you and stole candy from babies. YOU are exactly the type of bully that our parents all warned us about when we were kids. Please do the internet a favour and keep yourself segregated here with all the "cool" trolls*.


Hey dude, nice to see you back, but you don't know me. You shut me down real quick and I fessed up, but basically I thought it was a joke, maybe a bad one, but a joke.

With that kind of statement YOU are being a TROLL and completely insulting. Funny how you even pay any attention to what is going on here, nothing much on your front I guess. I certainly don't pay any attention to what is going on in your "neverland".

Also you do know what a beejacon means don't you? Why after all this time do you still hold some sort of resentment or grudge over such a minor thing? You need to lighten up, cripes in the era of Trump, Putin and ISIS there are much greater things to be concerned about.


----------



## FeXL

So, New York teachers no longer required to be literate.

New York To Scrap Literacy Test For Teachers In The Name Of Diversity



> Prospective teachers in New York will likely no longer have to pass a basic reading and writing literacy exam, the Associated Press is reporting.
> 
> The state’s Board of Regents is expected to ditch the Academic Literacy Skills Test in part because black and Hispanic teaching candidates struggled to pass the exam, according to the AP.
> 
> Just 41 percent of black teaching candidates and 46 percent of Hispanics passed the test on their first try, compared to 64 percent of white candidates.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, New York teachers no longer required to be literate.
> 
> New York To Scrap Literacy Test For Teachers In The Name Of Diversity


On the face of it, I also saw this as approaching ridiculous. I still have qualms.

But also consider these two passages from the original AP report:



> Several education professors told The Associated Press *the test doesn't measure anything that isn't covered in other exams students must take*, including subject matter certification tests, the SAT, the GRE and tests that are part of their coursework. Also, they said the test's $131 price tag is too steep.
> 
> Michael Middleton, dean of the Hunter College School of Education in Manhattan, said that of the battery of assessments, "It's the one that looks like it's the least related to the actual work that teachers do day to day."





> Charles Sahm, the director of education policy at the Manhattan Institute, a *conservative think tank*, is a strong supporter of raising the bar for teachers but not a fan of this particular literacy test.
> 
> Sahm took the $20 practice exam and thought it was a poorly designed test with multiple-choice questions that seemed to have more than one correct answer.
> 
> "I do agree that it's not a great test," Sahm said. "I found the reading comprehension section to be kind of infuriating.* I only got 21 out of 40 right*."


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> So, New York teachers no longer required to be literate.
> 
> New York To Scrap Literacy Test For Teachers In The Name Of Diversity


Hey if basic math skills are not required, why worry about things like reading and writing.


----------



## Macfury

I'd like to try the test. The fact that Sahm almost failed may be more on him than the test!


----------



## screature

MazterCBlazter said:


>


Excellent!!!


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> *Texans Receive First Notices of Land Condemnation for Trump’s Border Wall*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The week before Donald Trump’s inauguration, Yvette Salinas received a letter she had been dreading for years: legal notice that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) wants to build a border wall on her family’s land in Los Ebanos. The 21-page document, entitled a “Declaration of Taking,” is addressed to her ailing mother, Maria Flores, who owns the property with her siblings. The letter offers Flores $2,900 for 1.2 acres near the Rio Grande. If she chooses not to accept the offer, the land could be seized through eminent domain. “It’s scary when you read it,” Salinas says. “You feel like you have to sign.”
> 
> The 16-acre property has been in the family for so long that none of them can remember the year it was acquired. Salinas only knows they’ve had it for five generations.
> 
> ** * **​
> Aleida Garcia, Salinas’ cousin, said the government has increased security in the area by adding more surveillance, which she prefers to Trump’s proposed 30-foot wall. “*Even if they build a wall, people will still come,” said Garcia. “What’s helped us tremendously and is less expensive is the technology — the aerostat balloons, the ground sensors and even boots on the ground.”*
> 
> But Los Ebanos appears to be a prime target for the Trump administration. The surveying and planning work has already been done, and the Secure Fence Act authorizes more border fencing to be built. And in 2012, the United States half of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a binational organization tasked with managing the U.S.-Mexico water treaty, capitulated to lobbying by DHS and agreed to a wall in the floodplain.
> (Texas Observer)​


Yes too true and it shows how stupid Trump is, at least Regan was in favour of tearing down walls instead of building them.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> That gag has been around for 50 years! Used to be ascribed to various regional and national groups.


That does not diminish its point in the least.


----------



## CubaMark

Note to anyone appearing on TV: Green tie choice probably should be re-thought.


----------



## Macfury

It's St. Patrick's Day.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It's St. Patrick's Day.


Do you think he's sayin' "here's Seanny"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> So you are agreeing with me that the ACGW hypothesis is complete bull? Remember they started with the hypothesis, then warped the data to try and make it fit the hypothesis.
> 
> The scientists who do study the data and various cycles, are trying to warn us we may be headed into another minimum phase.



I don't believe I've stated anywhere that I agree with you. I said there is evidence that exists, one comes up with a hypothesis that fits the evidence, one attempts to test the theory. Trump does the opposite: he comes up with the theory, such as Obama had people wiretap Trump Tower during the campaign, then tries to find facts that might fit the theory. In the absence of facts he will cite "alternative facts" but refuse to concede that he is wrong. In fact, his press secretary has suggested that something is true if Mr. trump believes it's true. About as unscientific as you can get.


----------



## CubaMark

*Yup....*

*Preet Bharara was investigating Trump Health Secretary Tom Price when fired as Manhattan U.S. attorney: report*


----------



## Macfury

Yes, he removed every one of the Obama-appointed attorneys just to silence Bharara--talk about a nutty theory! 



CubaMark said:


> *Yup....*
> 
> *Preet Bharara was investigating Trump Health Secretary Tom Price when fired as Manhattan U.S. attorney: report*


----------



## eMacMan

Good idea, but the odds of Congress pulling their snouts out of the trough long enough to act on it, are about zero.

Petition to remove Congress members' health care subsidies gets nearly 500,000 signatures - seattlepi.com



> Jimenez asks, "If Congress is willing to drastically cut healthcare subsidies for most people, are they willing to have the same rules apply to them and their families?"


----------



## CubaMark

_One of Trump's regional campaign managers.... Why is it always a Republican anti-gay politician (or preacher) who ends up with his hands down some boy's pants?_










*Senator who voted for anti-trans ‘bathroom bill’ busted in hotel with underage boy*

This Tuesday, an Oklahoma State Senator was charged with child prostitution after being caught in a hotel room with an underage boy.

Three felony charges were filed against Ralph Shortey by Cleveland County District Attorney Greg Mashburn. The charges include engaging in child prostitution, engaging in prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church, and transporting a minor for prostitution, according to KFOR.

In the wake of Shortey’s arrest, LGBT advocacy groups noted his support for anti-LGBT legislation such as a proposed “bathroom bill” from last year.

From The Norman Transcript:

_These stigmatizing bills create fear, bias, and discrimination against the LGBTQ community even when they fail. We find it highly ironic that Senator Shortey voted to advance this legislation out of committee, and less than a year later, he was caught in what appears to be actual predatory behavior toward a vulnerable youth. …

There has never been a legitimate recorded incident in Oklahoma of a transgender person harming anyone in a restroom, yet there are numerous accounts of predatory behavior by anti-LGBTQ legislators who have taken bigoted votes akin to the vote Senator Shortey cast last year._​
** * **​
According to the Moore Police Department (PDF), police went to “check on a juvenile at the Super 8 Motel in Moore last Thursday.” When they found Shortey and the juvenile, who is 17, there was allegedly a “strong smell of marijuana” and an open box condoms in the juvenile’s bag. Shortey claimed he had simply gone to the hotel to “hang out with a friend.”

Police say the juvenile’s parents said he has a history of soliciting himself online. KFOR reports that communication records show the teen told Shortey that he needed money for spring break, to which Shortey allegedly responded, “would you be interested in ‘sexual’ stuff?”

In the wake of his arrest, the Oklahoma Senate voted to bar Shortey from all his work as a Senator. He is married with three children and was also the manager for Donald Trump’s campaign during the primaries.

(DeadState)​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _One of Trump's regional campaign managers.... Why is it always a Republican anti-gay politician (or preacher) who ends up with his hands down some boy's pants?_


It isn't. It just gets massive press.

My question is, why is it ironic that he voted for the legislation?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It isn't. It just gets massive press.
> 
> 
> 
> My question is, why is it ironic that he voted for the legislation?



That's not much of an answer, "it isn't." Those throwing stones ought to have clean slates themselves. Pivot much?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Those throwing stones ought to have clean slates themselves. Pivot much?


It wasn't an anti-prostitution bill.


----------



## Beej

*Trump tax returns and opinion shows*

This guy does a better job of providing opinion than high profile news media people.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ7TS9RE_bk[/ame]

What relevance do opinionators have at large networks? This is increasingly unclear.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It wasn't an anti-prostitution bill.



?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> ?


You said he ought not to "throw stones "unless he had a "clean slate."

What was the stone and why should he not have supported the legislation--even given his arrest?


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> This guy does a better job of providing opinion than high profile news media people.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ7TS9RE_bk
> 
> What relevance do opinionators have at large networks? This is increasingly unclear.


On YouTube the guy can make a logical case over 15 minutes. The typical TV audience would have thrown a referee meme at him because they couldn't understand what he was saying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You said he ought not to "throw stones "unless he had a "clean slate."
> 
> 
> 
> What was the stone and why should he not have supported the legislation--even given his arrest?



The comment was about you. You criticize others for being meagre in their explanations, yet you've done exactly the same thing here. Mark's comment about holier-than-thou politicians and preachers was a fair one. They should not throw stones unless they are honourable themselves.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The comment was about you. You criticize others for being meagre in their explanations, yet you've done exactly the same thing here. Mark's comment about holier-than-thou politicians and preachers was a fair one. They should not throw stones unless they are honourable themselves.


He didn't throw stones at anyone and he was despicable in his private life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He didn't throw stones at anyone and he was despicable in his private life.



Explain "despicable."


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Explain "despicable."


He cheated on his wife with someone underage.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He cheated on his wife with someone underage.



Well then that would be illegal then as well as despicable. But of course, that's judging based on my own values.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well then that would be illegal then as well as despicable. But of course, that's judging based on my own values.


So you said he shouldn't throw stones based on this. What stones did he throw?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So you said he shouldn't throw stones based on this. What stones did he throw?



Metaphors are lost on some, unfortunately. Mark was speaking of the hypocrisy of those on the right as I understand it. I'm sure Mark can inform me if I misunderstood.


----------



## Dr.G.

" Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence, yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world."

Robert F. Kennedy


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Metaphors are lost on some, unfortunately. Mark was speaking of the hypocrisy of those on the right as I understand it. I'm sure Mark can inform me if I misunderstood.


Then what hypocrisy did he commit?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Then what hypocrisy did he commit?


Methinks you are being deliberately obtuse.




CubaMark said:


> _One of Trump's regional campaign managers.... Why is it always a Republican anti-gay politician (or preacher) who ends up with his hands down some boy's pants?_


----------



## FUXL

Heading out of Drumphland. Don't get Bagels here they're horrible!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Methinks you are being deliberately obtuse.


What does having their hands down a boy's pants have to do with being gay?


----------



## Dr.G.

FUXL said:


> Heading out of Drumphland. Don't get Bagels here they're horrible!


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## SINC

FUXL said:


> Heading out of Drumphland. Don't get Bagels here they're horrible!


a weak attempt at illusion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What does having their hands down a boy's pants have to do with being gay?



I don't know. You tell me.


----------



## CubaMark

*"Sorry, Mr. President, that's not how NATO works": Ex-U.S. NATO rep responds to Donald Trump*

A day after meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, U.S. President Donald Trump took to Twitter to suggest her country owes “NATO & the United States” big bucks for the “defense it provides to Germany.”



> Despite what you have heard from the FAKE NEWS, I had a GREAT meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Nevertheless, Germany owes…..
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 18, 2017





> …vast sums of money to NATO & the United States must be paid more for the powerful, and very expensive, defense it provides to Germany!
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 18, 2017


A day earlier, as the two spoke to the media following their meeting, Trump also attempted to push his German counterpart to spend more on NATO.

** * **​
After Trump’s tweets on Saturday morning, a man who is very familiar with the inner workings of NATO took to Twitter in an attempt to explain to Trump that Germany and other countries are paying their fair share.



> 1/ Sorry, Mr. President, that’s not how NATO works. The US decides for itself how much it contributes to defending NATO. pic.twitter.com/8svkzRBEQb
> 
> — Ivo Daalder (@IvoHDaalder) March 18, 2017





> 2/ This is not a financial transaction, where NATO countries pay the US to defend them. It is part of our treaty commitment.
> 
> — Ivo Daalder (@IvoHDaalder) March 18, 2017


Daalder went on to explain that all of the 28 countries in NATO have committed to spending 2 % of their GDP on defense by 2024, “But no funds will be paid to the US. They are meant to increase NATO’s overall defense capabilities, given the growing Russian threat.”
(GlobalNews)​


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't know. You tell me.


If you don't know, don't talk about it.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *"Sorry, Mr. President, that's not how NATO works": Ex-U.S. NATO rep responds to Donald Trump*


This is Trump' opening gambit in redistributing NATO costs. All of these straw man explanations of how NATO works are completely missing the boat.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *"Sorry, Mr. President, that's not how NATO works": Ex-U.S. NATO rep responds to Donald Trump*
> 
> 
> 
> A day after meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, U.S. President Donald Trump took to Twitter to suggest her country owes “NATO & the United States” big bucks for the “defense it provides to Germany.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A day earlier, as the two spoke to the media following their meeting, Trump also attempted to push his German counterpart to spend more on NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> After Trump’s tweets on Saturday morning, a man who is very familiar with the inner workings of NATO took to Twitter in an attempt to explain to Trump that Germany and other countries are paying their fair share.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daalder went on to explain that all of the 28 countries in NATO have committed to spending 2 % of their GDP on defense by 2024, “But no funds will be paid to the US. They are meant to increase NATO’s overall defense capabilities, given the growing Russian threat.”
> 
> (GlobalNews)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you don't know, don't talk about it.



Apparently you are not even recognizing sarcasm anymore. Unfortunate. Remember, I said "deliberately obtuse." It's not that can't understand, it's just that you choose to pretend you can't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is Trump' opening gambit in redistributing NATO costs. All of these straw man explanations of how NATO works are completely missing the boat.



There is no "opening gambit." This is not the Art of the Deal (which was written by someone else, by the way), and Trump is not smart enough to see that he is not now Emperor of the World. He is a dunce who got to momentarily pretend he's the teacher when he was asked to come to the front of room, and he is in denial that he has nowhere near the qualifications for the job. In other words, he is screwing over his country royally, and his worshippers fail to see the damage he is doing to America's reputation, both domestically and internationally. He is, in short, the worst thing to happen to America and at one of the worst possible times. 

Could be beneficial for Canada in some ways, though.


----------



## Macfury

Stop your dancing Freddie--it's embarrassing to everyone watching.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> He is, in short, the worst thing to happen to America and at one of the worst possible times. .


Actually he is the choice of the American people. Best you blame those who gave him power, not him. They knew full well what they were electing. What really happened is Americans showing their disgust with Obama, Clinton and the establishment in general.

And if you pay close attention, you will see it happen here in Canada too. First with the Alberta NDP and Red RATchel, followed later in 2019 by the federal Liberals and our boy wonder Trudeau.


----------



## Macfury

Progressive toadies are tearing out their thinning hair over Trump taking his message to socialist pushovers like Merkel. Fun to watch!



SINC said:


> Actually he is the choice of the American people. Best you blame those who gave him power, not him. They knew full well what they were electing. What really happened is Americans showing their disgust with Obama, Clinton and the establishment in general.
> 
> And if you pay close attention, you will see it happen here in Canada too. First with the Alberta NDP and Red RATchel, followed later in 2019 by the federal Liberals and our boy wonder Trudeau.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> ....They knew full well what they were electing. What really happened is Americans showing their disgust with Obama, Clinton and the establishment in general....


*President Losing Support Among Voters - Trump Voters Say He's Not Meeting Their Expectations* 

_A new national poll released this week shows that Trump supporters increasingly feel that he's "going too far," is falling short of their expectations of him for unifying the country, and is "getting sidetracked by things that aren't important." All of which amounts to an uptick in "Trump Regretters" (i.e. people who voted for him but no longer support him) since November._​
(Marie Claire)


----------



## Beej

SINC said:


> And if you pay close attention, you will see it happen here in Canada too. First with the Alberta NDP


I can see your point on the NDP. What makes you think this is happening on a national scale? Seeing what happened in the UK and the US, I've been wondering why things are relatively quiet here. 

There are good reasons for our differences, but it would be surprising for such political upheaval to have no impact here beyond one province that elected a protest government after 40+ years of one party rule.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> This guy does a better job of providing opinion than high profile news media people.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ7TS9RE_bk
> 
> What relevance do opinionators have at large networks? This is increasingly unclear.


Well that was overblown in its own right.

Why only release his return of 2005 when he paid an appropriate amount of tax (in the US)? What about all the years prior to or since 2005? Inquiring minds want to know. Was 2005 the only year that he paid his fair share?

Until we know we don't know and thus there will be doubts and suspicions. That takes about 10 seconds to read or say and all that either of them needed to say.


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> I can see your point on the NDP. What makes you think this is happening on a national scale? Seeing what happened in the UK and the US, I've been wondering why things are relatively quiet here.
> 
> There are good reasons for our differences, but it would be surprising for such political upheaval to have no impact here beyond one province that elected a protest government after 40+ years of one party rule.


Recent polls have shown that the honeymoon is over for Liberals in general and Trudeau in particular. People have caught on to the fact he is an idiot and incapable as a PM with little more to offer than a pretty boy hair do and one uh after another. 

Add to that the massive debt he too is accumulating and the massive amounts of money he is spending on foreign issues while ignoring those at home. And then there is the influx of refugees that a large portion of the population find reckless and expensive. I see a rejection of Trudeau and his party in our future and a desire for real change, not another PM from Quebec. I could be wrong, but that is what I sense will happen federally in yet another 'protest' vote in 2019.


----------



## FUXL

Billboard from Arizona - a Drumfph supporting state:


----------



## Macfury

Arizona is made up of half reasonable folk and too many prog Democrats crowded into the Phoenix area. By the way, if you're going to do a parody account at least maintain some level of consistency in tone and approach. This looks like the regular junk you post under your own name.


----------



## SINC

FUXL said:


> Billboard from Arizona - a Drumfph supporting state:


.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Arizona is made up of half reasonable folk and too many prog Democrats crowded into the Phoenix area. By the way, if you're going to do a parody account at least maintain some level of consistency in tone and approach. This looks like the regular junk you post under your own name.





SINC said:


> .


Why keep posting under a persona when everyone knows who you really are? 

There was another member here who did that and had at least 3 different personas. The one that I remember is "skippy" with the avatar being a head pic of a kangaroo, I think there was another one called chite or something like that with the avatar being an illustrated pile of steaming poo with flies, but just right now his original persona escapes me and I checked the Community Members list and none of them show up so somehow he seems to have been able to expunge all of his nasty history here.

At any rate, Frank why not just give up this rather juvenile persona and just move on. It would be the adult thing to do.


----------



## CubaMark

*The perils of being brown in Amerika.* XX)

*Retired N.C. police chief detained at Kennedy Airport*










A retired police chief from North Carolina claims he was profiled and unreasonably detained at Kennedy Airport while returning from celebrating his mother’s 80th birthday in Paris.

Greenville’s former top cop, Hassan Aden, said he was held at JFK for an hour and a half as U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents attempted to “clear me for entry,” he penned in a lengthy Facebook post describing the ordeal.

Aden later clarified that he was detained on March 13.

“My freedoms were restricted, and I cannot be sure it won’t happen again, and that it won’t happen to my family, my children, the next time we travel abroad,” Aden reflected on Saturday.

Not even Aden’s decades-long law enforcement resume made a difference.

** * **​
The customs agent told Aden his “name was used as an alias by someone on some watch list.”

Aden, a U.S. citizen, retired from his two-year stint at Greenville Police Department in 2015 after spending 25 years in Alexandria, Va., as its deputy police chief. He is now a senior policy adviser at the Vera Institute of Justice.

He sat in a detention facility as agents checked his name with a second, unspecified federal agency.

** * **​
He was unable to tell his family that he had been detained.

** * **​
“I asked several times, ‘How long of a detention do you consider to be reasonable,’ ” Aden reportedly asked.

“The answer I was given by CBP Officer Chow was that I was not being detained — he said that with a straight face. I then replied, ‘But I’m not free to leave — how is that not a detention?’ ”

** * **​
He was only let go because of a second officer who started her shift and expedited his release. He made his connecting flight to Washington, D.C., with only minutes to spare.

“All that to say that If this can happen to me, it can happen to anyone with attributes that can be ‘profiled,’ ” Aden added. “No one is safe from this type of unlawful government intrusion.”

(NY Daily News)​


----------



## Macfury

> The customs agent told Aden his “name was used as an alias by someone on some watch list.”


Do you think that was a lie, CM?


----------



## SINC

screature said:


> Why keep posting under a persona when everyone knows who you really are?
> 
> There was another member here who did that and had at least 3 different personas. The one that I remember is "skippy" with the avatar being a head pic of a kangaroo, I think there was another one called chite or something like that with the avatar being an illustrated pile of steaming poo with flies, but just right now his original persona escapes me and I checked the Community Members list and none of them show up so somehow he seems to have been able to expunge all of his nasty history here.
> 
> At any rate, Frank why not just give up this rather juvenile persona and just move on. It would be the adult thing to do.


You were thinking of perhaps jimbotelecom, Steve? His original account is still here. As is Stink: ehMac.ca - View Profile: Stink


----------



## screature

SINC said:


> You were thinking of perhaps jimbotelecom, Steve? His original account is still here. As is Stink: ehMac.ca - View Profile: Stink


Yes! Exactly, thanks Don, that is who I was talking about. Yah I guess I didn't see them.

EDIT:

I found stink but I can't find skippy or jimbo... no worries it really does not matter.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Do you think that was a lie, CM?


If it's *that* easy to plug up ICE, then some guy named Mohammed should legally change his name to "John Smith" ("Donald Trump?" hahahahahah) and commit a crime.


----------



## Macfury

These "trained professionals" are simple folk.



CubaMark said:


> If it's *that* easy to plug up ICE, then some guy named Mohammed should legally change his name to "John Smith" ("Donald Trump?" hahahahahah) and commit a crime.


----------



## CubaMark

_*Here's the "logic" manifested in the minds of Team Trump while explaining the ridiculous budget:*_










We know about the $54 billion defense spending increase—now we’re finding out about the cuts to help cover that massive, unnecessary ballooning of military spending. The Trump budget would completely eliminate funding for 19 agencies, including the Appalachian Regional Commission, the Chemical Safety Board, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities, and the Legal Services Corporation.

Mulvaney (Office of Management and Budget director) has some very special logic on these cuts:

_When you start looking at places that we reduce spending, one of the questions we asked was can we really continue to ask a coal miner in West Virginia or a single mom in Detroit to pay for these programs? The answer was no,” Mulvaney said Thursday morning on MSNBC’s “Morning Jo e.” “We can ask them to pay for defense, and we will, but we can’t ask them to continue to pay for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.”_​Coal miners’ kids and low-income kids in Detroit don’t need no edumacashunal programmin’, am I right? Except that, as it turns out, “68% of all kids age two to eight watched PBS during the 2015-'16 season” and “PBS stations reach more kids age two to five, more moms with young children and more children from low-income families than any other kids TV network. 

And, speaking of Detroit, Detroit’s public television station’s “reach to African-American households and its black viewership exceeds that of white audiences,” while West Virginia Public Broadcasting announced in December that it was adding a channel to run children’s programming 24 hours a day. If you’re still laboring under the misapprehension that public television is some kind of coastal liberal affectation, consider that Idaho Public Television has the highest per capita viewership in the United States.
(DailyKOS)​
So: kids needs bombs, but not PBS. Must be some kind of personal grudge Trump has against Sesame Street, which —and I didn't know this— parodies him as an uncaring capitalist _grouch_:

*Trump wants to defund PBS. ‘Sesame Street’ brutally parodied him for decades.*

In 2005, his likeness returned to Sesame Street as “Donald Grump”: a grouch again, but now in an orange wig — and famous among muppets for his reality show and spectacular wealth.

With a great rumble, Grump popped out of a can atop a table strewn with Grump-branded trash.

The muppets chanted: “Grump! Grump! Grump!”

“I’m the trashiest, I’m the grouchiest Grump,” he sang.

And then, as he always did, Grump sowed division on Sesame Street.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQyTpPu0gvc[/ame]
(WashingtonPost)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Mark, add to this why anyone should pay for meals for poor seniors or for hungry school children? This is social Darwinism at their finest. Guns not butter ............. or bread .............. or any sort of nourishment. There is no proof that feeding a hungry senior or a hungry child in school helps them in any way ............... other than to ease their hunger.


----------



## Macfury

What's amazing to me is that government supported PBS in the first place.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What's amazing to me is that government supported PBS in the first place.


Money VERY well spent.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Money VERY well spent.


Great! You spend it, Dr. G!


----------



## Macfury

So true:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What's amazing to me is that government supported PBS in the first place.



What's not amazing to me is that you would say that.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Great! You spend it, Dr. G!


No problem. I did .............. I still do ( I still file US taxes ) and will do so in the future. Same attitude as my tax dollars going to the CBC. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> So true:


We shall see if Trumpcare even passes on Thursday.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see if Trumpcare even passes on Thursday.


I don't believe it makes enough market reforms, but it's certainly better than its predecessor.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No problem. I did .............. I still do ( I still file US taxes ) and will do so in the future. Same attitude as my tax dollars going to the CBC. Paix, mon ami.


I can't count the number of times I could have used the $100 I pay for the CBC to buy a prescription drug or pay for braces. I have watched zero minutes of the CBC in the last year.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I can't count the number of times I could have used the $100 I pay for the CBC to buy a prescription drug or pay for braces. I have watched zero minutes of the CBC in the last year.


Well, luckily, there have been others, especially children, who watched your CBC time. It's all part of being in a democracy that has a social conscience. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump's net worth dwindled to $3.5-billion: Forbes - The Globe and Mail

Now I understand why there will be a day long telethon to raise money for Pres. Trump on July 4th. Not for his campaign ................ for him. Makes sense now.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, luckily, there have been others, especially children, who watched your CBC time. It's all part of being in a democracy that has a social conscience. Paix, mon ami.


My social conscience is clear. I would always vote to prevent personal dental agony or clear an infection over their couch potato habits.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> My social conscience is clear. I would always vote to prevent personal dental agony or clear an infection over their couch potato habits.


You can have both ................ but it would cost a .001% cut in the military budget.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You can have both ................ but it would cost a .001% cut in the military budget.


Cut spending across the board by 50% and you can have your CBC.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> You can have both ................ but it would cost a .001% cut in the military budget.



Marc, you are never going to convince a non-believer of the worth of the CBC to so many Canadians. Just because the non-believers don't get it doesn't mean it isn't valuable. In fact, that may be exactly why it IS valuable, from coast to coast to coast. And now my students at school love Kim's Convenience too.


----------



## Beej

SINC said:


> Recent polls have shown that the honeymoon is over for Liberals in general and Trudeau in particular. People have caught on to the fact he is an idiot and incapable as a PM with little more to offer than a pretty boy hair do and one uh after another.
> 
> Add to that the massive debt he too is accumulating and the massive amounts of money he is spending on foreign issues while ignoring those at home. And then there is the influx of refugees that a large portion of the population find reckless and expensive. I see a rejection of Trudeau and his party in our future and a desire for real change, not another PM from Quebec. I could be wrong, but that is what I sense will happen federally in yet another 'protest' vote in 2019.


Thanks for the comprehensive response. I agree that the honeymoon is largely over, but I think he would still need a compelling opponent, or a series of terrible decisions as interpreted by swing voters to not get a second term.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't believe it makes enough market reforms, but it's certainly better than its predecessor.


MacFury I am not trying to be argumentative here so please don't look at it that way, but have you any actual first, second hand knowledge of someone under the U.S. system? Getting care in the U.S. is more do you have the right insurance. Being an individual who has signed for hospital bills of one and two hundred thousand each I would never have been able to afford that coverage under the U.S. system. There are many many individuals who can't afford health care south of the border.....it's hard making those payments when you are paid $9 per hour. The issue with the U.S. system is the incestuous relationship between the private companies and the medical delivery system. To a large degree the privatization you suggest is one of their biggest impairments in any form of improvement to that system.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> No problem. I did .............. I still do ( I still file US taxes ) and will do so in the future. Same attitude as my tax dollars going to the CBC. Paix, mon ami.


Hate to say this Dr. G., but when you look at the CBC in total, we are not getting value for our money. Up North maybe, since commercial operations would fail (assuming one believes we need Northern providers) . For many the CBC is TV, but its radio service would rival most commercial stations and networks.....its TV would not. We are a country of about 35 million, having shows which draw about 200,000 and saying they are a hit is clearly political spin. You think a show with 200,000 viewers would survive in California, Australia....... I don't think so.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Recent polls have shown that the honeymoon is over for Liberals in general and Trudeau in particular. People have caught on to the fact he is an idiot and incapable as a PM with little more to offer than a pretty boy hair do and one uh after another.
> 
> Add to that the massive debt he too is accumulating and the massive amounts of money he is spending on foreign issues while ignoring those at home. And then there is the influx of refugees that a large portion of the population find reckless and expensive. I see a rejection of Trudeau and his party in our future and a desire for real change, not another PM from Quebec. I could be wrong, but that is what I sense will happen federally in yet another 'protest' vote in 2019.


Sinc, a lot can happen in a short time and voters have short memories. I think JT has Bob Rae Disease...... got elected but no cabinet. It is the ministers who make a government. No football coach has won without a good quarterback, and no quarterback is great without his linemen. JT lacks a deep strong team which will be his undoing I think. As for another guy from Quebec we might need him if the challenge of Bill 99 goes south.


----------



## SINC

CBC television has been slowly eroding year after year and it is far past the time that we should pull the plug on this drain on Canadian taxpayers. It used to serve a vital purpose, but no more. It needs to be euthanized now.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> CBC television has been slowly eroding year after year and it is far past the time that we should pull the plug on this drain on Canadian taxpayers. It used to serve a vital purpose, but no more. It needs to be euthanized now.


I agree! I always ask supporters of the CBC to name one show they would buy the box set ......crickets.

Don't mean to derail the thread ....this subject might be better served in the Canadian thread.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, I do have knowledge of people living under that system.

They were frustrated with high insurance prices--and moreso under defunct Obamacare. However, when I describe Ontario wait times to them, they're horrified. Eight hours in the Emergency waiting room. Two months for an MRI. They're incredulous! 

Market forces haven't been at play in the US since the incestuous HMO system set up under NIxon and it has worsened since. The recipient of the service is no longer the customer, so there are no cost controls. Insurance companies happily pay whatever hospitals want to charge and then raise rates. Many of the crazy bills you hear about have no basis in market pricing, Hospital A charges $8,000 to put a cast on a broken arm. Insurance Company B says--I'll pay you $5,000. Hospital says OK and declares a business loss on the procedure. Everyone is happy but the patient. 

There are few reasons to innovate or to bring the cost of health care down. Even competition across state lines between insurance companies is forbidden. Privatization is already there--it's the incestuous relationship between those companies and government that's creating the problem.

In Ontario, health care spending has gone from 36% of provincial budgets in 1999 to 43% in 2015--and those budgets are much bigger than they used to be. Projections are for a quick jump to greater than 50%. I don't believe that system is sustainable. There is likewise no incentive to contain costs.

There's no reason why healthcare cost trajectories should continue along these pathways if genuine competition and innovation are encouraged. Neither system does it well and I blame it on government meddling.




Rps said:


> MacFury I am not trying to be argumentative here so please don't look at it that way, but have you any actual first, second hand knowledge of someone under the U.S. system? Getting care in the U.S. is more do you have the right insurance. Being an individual who has signed for hospital bills of one and two hundred thousand each I would never have been able to afford that coverage under the U.S. system. There are many many individuals who can't afford health care south of the border.....it's hard making those payments when you are paid $9 per hour. The issue with the U.S. system is the incestuous relationship between the private companies and the medical delivery system. To a large degree the privatization you suggest is one of their biggest impairments in any form of improvement to that system.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Hate to say this Dr. G., but when you look at the CBC in total, we are not getting value for our money. Up North maybe, since commercial operations would fail (assuming one believes we need Northern providers) . For many the CBC is TV, but its radio service would rival most commercial stations and networks.....its TV would not. We are a country of about 35 million, having shows which draw about 200,000 and saying they are a hit is clearly political spin. You think a show with 200,000 viewers would survive in California, Australia....... I don't think so.


The CBC was designed for a period when television itself was novel new medium. Satellite TV and the Internet have taken care of that. Have the CBC reduce itself to producing four hours of television per day and make that service free as part of any cable package. Reduce those hours if the programming does not reach a certain level of viewership.


----------



## Rps

Macfury, I see where you are going here, and I agree. The HMO system was flawed and the problem is that industry employes thousands of people. Jobs, jobs, jobs are another reason they are fighting not to change as well. But I am not sure if a market system would be equitable in the health care industry..... I'm just not sure, but I do think we are agreeing in principle here.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The CBC was designed for a period when television itself was novel new medium. Satellite TV and the Internet have taken care of that. Have the CBC reduce itself to producing four hours of television per day and make that service free as part of any cable package. Reduce those hours if the programming does not reach a certain level of viewership.


Keeping in the spirit of this thread, PBS certainly falls within your comments....so the question is do we need public broadcasting......it would seem laughable in today's environment...... but everyone would have to have the Internet or cable for streaming.....what if they don't have that service.....does the government (read U.S.) need to fill that gap....I'm 50/50 on this.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Hate to say this Dr. G., but when you look at the CBC in total, we are not getting value for our money. Up North maybe, since commercial operations would fail (assuming one believes we need Northern providers) . For many the CBC is TV, but its radio service would rival most commercial stations and networks.....its TV would not. We are a country of about 35 million, having shows which draw about 200,000 and saying they are a hit is clearly political spin. You think a show with 200,000 viewers would survive in California, Australia....... I don't think so.


Well, it's a matter of opinion, Rp. I would like to see the options loophole deduction eliminated, with costs the CRA $850,000,000 (their estimates) in lost tax revenue. The rationale is that startup companies need to attract talent with options, which are taxed differently than salaries. Sadly, their figures show that 90% of these options are used by executives at major companies, and not for startup companies. So, I earn 4 million when I exercise my options, but only have to pay tax on 2 million. The other 2 million is untaxed, as compared to my salary which is full taxed. 

As I said, it is a matter of perspective, opinion and values. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Speaking of the Corp. for Public Broadcasting, which is to lose it's funding, Pres. Trump has called for the arrest of Big Bird and the Sesame Street cast due to today's broadcast. It was brought to everyone by the letters F and U and the number 0.


----------



## Macfury

If the CBC is a waste, eliminating a deduction does not mean that that the money should then go to the CBC. It should be returned to taxpayers.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, it's a matter of opinion, Rp. I would like to see the options loophole deduction eliminated, with costs the CRA $850,000,000 (their estimates) in lost tax revenue. The rationale is that startup companies need to attract talent with options, which are taxed differently than salaries. Sadly, their figures show that 90% of these options are used by executives at major companies, and not for startup companies. So, I earn 4 million when I exercise my options, but only have to pay tax on 2 million. The other 2 million is untaxed, as compared to my salary which is full taxed.
> 
> As I said, it is a matter of perspective, opinion and values. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> In Ontario, health care spending has gone from 36% of provincial budgets in 1999 to 43% in 2015--and those budgets are much bigger than they used to be. Projections are for a quick jump to greater than 50%. I don't believe that system is sustainable. There is likewise no incentive to contain costs.


I wonder what percentage of that cost inflation can be tied to the ageing demographic in Canada? An older population tends to requiere more medical intervention.

The other angle is prescription drugs. 

Mulroney's government amended the legislation to provide protection for drug companies from generic competition initially at 10 years (1987) and then upped that protection to 20 years (1993). The impact upon Canada's health care system was immediate: cheaper generics could not be substituted for brand-name drugs.

More recently - and I've read through this a couple of times, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me - Ontario fought against the ability of pharmacies to sell cheaper generics (2015).

The health care problem is complicated (even The Donald recognizes this... finally....), but I remain convinced that a single-payer (state) system is the most logical way to foster a healthy society with the least financial burden on the taxpayers / patients. The problem lies in the administration and the never-ending funding dance that provinces and Ottawa have to go through. The ageing demographic and rural-to-urban migration in, for example, Nova Scotia has created a context in which the cost of maintaining services in rural areas is prohibitive, but residents in those areas demand (and receive, as political incentives) facilities that contradict the population base logic.

It's a mess... but putting it in the hands of stockholders and private companies is, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. There has to be a better way.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you need to provide TV to everyone who might _potentially _want to watch it. It's not a right. Even today, you now need a high-def antenna to watch TV, severely limiting TV access--and that was a government decision. I see very few of those antennas, so either people are watching via cable, satellite, or Internet--or they have simply stopped watching already.

I think a cheaper alternative to public broadcasting infrastructure would be to provide a satellite dish to any Canadian who cannot currently pick up the CBC for free--however that dish would only pick up the CBC. I wouldn't manufacture too many of those dishes up front.



Rps said:


> Keeping in the spirit of this thread, PBS certainly falls within your comments....so the question is do we need public broadcasting......it would seem laughable in today's environment...... but everyone would have to have the Internet or cable for streaming.....what if they don't have that service.....does the government (read U.S.) need to fill that gap....I'm 50/50 on this.


----------



## CubaMark

Robert Reich
9 hrs · 

Let me get this straight: Ivanka Trump -- who has myriad business interests that overlap with her father’s – is now moving into the West Wing as a top White House advisor, getting a security clearance and government-issued communications devices. But she’s not being sworn in, will hold no official position, and so will not be a government employee who must by law adhere to official ethics rules.

Doesn’t the Trump administration have enough ethics problems? Aren’t there already enough conflicts of interest to sink a ship?

Ivanka’s husband, Jared Kushner, is now an official senior adviser in the White House – but at least his status is an official government employee, he was sworn in, and he has to abide by ethics laws. Why can’t Ivanka do the same?

Ivanka still owns her eponymous fashion and jewelry brand, and is also publishing a book, “Women Who Work,” due out in May. But she says she’ll distance herself from the day-to-day operations of the Ivanka Trump brand and convey her interests to a trust that will be controlled by her brother-in-law, Josh Kushner, and her sister-in-law, Nicole Meyer.

Oh, sure.

It’s as if a coup has occurred, and the dictator’s family has now moved into the palace -- and are about to the loot the country. The utter disdain of the Trumps for ethics is jaw-dropping.

What do you think?​Story on Politico​


----------



## Macfury

Yes, older people and a particular group of heavy users are making things worse--but it never really gets better. I'm not sure about the cost of prescription drugs used in hospitals or free to seniors but I pay every penny out of pocket.

I have no problem with a fairly long window before generics come in, because the type of drugs being developed today are damned expensive to create and a lot of the development angles end in failure. If you change the generic law you just increase the price of the drug in the short run--all of the profit would need to be made in the first decade. I would rather companies continue to develop new drugs at a horrendous price that become generic in 20 years, than simply stick with the drugs we already know produced by generic manufacturers.

Single payer does not bring costs down--it rations care so fewer people receive service and it attenuates that service over longer periods of time. That's a trade-off that many Americans I talk to don't appreciate. They want an MRI tomorrow at the latest and a half-hour wait in Emergency. 

The only thing that can actually bring REAL costs down is the application of competitive technology. Government has not been great at getting that done.

Per capita costs are not always a good indication of whether a country is providing health care competitively--if citizens like to buy a lot of health care, it makes it look as though costs are out of control, when only consumption is high. 



CubaMark said:


> I wonder what percentage of that cost inflation can be tied to the ageing demographic in Canada? An older population tends to require more medical intervention.
> 
> The other angle is prescription drugs.
> 
> Mulroney's government amended the legislation to provide protection for drug companies from generic competition initially at 10 years (1987) and then upped that protection to 20 years (1993). The impact upon Canada's health care system was immediate: cheaper generics could not be substituted for brand-name drugs.
> 
> More recently - and I've read through this a couple of times, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me - Ontario fought against the ability of pharmacies to sell cheaper generics (2015).
> 
> The health care problem is complicated (even The Donald recognizes this... finally....), but I remain convinced that a single-payer (state) system is the most logical way to foster a healthy society with the least financial burden on the taxpayers / patients. The problem lies in the administration and the never-ending funding dance that provinces and Ottawa have to go through. The ageing demographic and rural-to-urban migration in, for example, Nova Scotia has created a context in which the cost of maintaining services in rural areas is prohibitive, but residents in those areas demand (and receive, as political incentives) facilities that contradict the population base logic.
> 
> It's a mess... but putting it in the hands of stockholders and private companies is, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. There has to be a better way.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> I wonder what percentage of that cost inflation can be tied to the ageing demographic in Canada? An older population tends to requiere more medical intervention.
> 
> The other angle is prescription drugs.
> 
> Mulroney's government amended the legislation to provide protection for drug companies from generic competition initially at 10 years (1987) and then upped that protection to 20 years (1993). The impact upon Canada's health care system was immediate: cheaper generics could not be substituted for brand-name drugs.
> 
> More recently - and I've read through this a couple of times, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me - Ontario fought against the ability of pharmacies to sell cheaper generics (2015).
> 
> The health care problem is complicated (even The Donald recognizes this... finally....), but I remain convinced that a single-payer (state) system is the most logical way to foster a healthy society with the least financial burden on the taxpayers / patients. The problem lies in the administration and the never-ending funding dance that provinces and Ottawa have to go through. The ageing demographic and rural-to-urban migration in, for example, Nova Scotia has created a context in which the cost of maintaining services in rural areas is prohibitive, but residents in those areas demand (and receive, as political incentives) facilities that contradict the population base logic.
> 
> It's a mess... but putting it in the hands of stockholders and private companies is, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. There has to be a better way.


What it comes down to is this. The US can afford to wage never ending wars against every nation that does not properly kowtow to the Rothchild cabal, or they can afford single payer health care. They can't afford both. Despite his campaign rhetoric, I see no indication at all of Trump backing away from a war based economy. 

I guess if your goal is to reduce the planets population this makes a lot of sense. You wantonly kill millions outside your borders, then add to the toll on the domestic side via poor health care.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> What it comes down to is this. The US can afford to wage never ending wars against every nation that does not properly kowtow to the Rothchild cabal, or they can afford single payer health care.


It's not a question of whether they can afford single payer, but whether it makes any sense. I see all the single-payer systems heading for drastic cuts or insolvency.


----------



## eMacMan

Was at the grocery store and caught a glimpse of one of those tabloid headlines.This one said: "Hillary Clinton Caught Taking Bribe."

The woman is a politician/wannabe president. That she would take a bribe cannot be be considered newsworthy. Many feel there is good reason to suspect that she attempted to destroy her eMails, to cover her Pay to Play role with the Clinton Foundation. True or not that suspicion was widespread and probably cost her the election. 

Had the headline read: "Hillary Refuses Bribe", that would be front page news.


----------



## CubaMark

This wouldn't surprise me in the least.... "Fake News" perhaps... or is it... _Plausible News_?   :lmao: 

*Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump's Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
*










WASHINGTON—Rushing toward the president as he pressed the eight-inch bit into his temple, several White House aides managed to wrestle a drill from Donald Trump’s hand Monday while he attempted to remove Obama’s listening device from his skull. 

“Obama implanted a microphone inside my head to record everything I say!” Trump reportedly shouted shortly before three White House staffers pinned him to the floor and pried apart his fingers to seize the power tool. 

“You don’t understand, he can hear everything we’re saying! Obama can even hear my thoughts! I have to get it out! I can feel it! I can feel it! I can feel it!” 

At press time, staffers were panicking after Trump locked himself in the bathroom and began cutting his stomach open with a razor blade in an attempt to find the tracking chip he said The New York Times had put in his food.
(The Onion)​


----------



## SINC

Never had any use for The Onion. Have even less now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> This wouldn't surprise me in the least.... "Fake News" perhaps... or is it... _Plausible News_?   :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump's Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON—Rushing toward the president as he pressed the eight-inch bit into his temple, several White House aides managed to wrestle a drill from Donald Trump’s hand Monday while he attempted to remove Obama’s listening device from his skull.
> 
> 
> 
> “Obama implanted a microphone inside my head to record everything I say!” Trump reportedly shouted shortly before three White House staffers pinned him to the floor and pried apart his fingers to seize the power tool.
> 
> 
> 
> “You don’t understand, he can hear everything we’re saying! Obama can even hear my thoughts! I have to get it out! I can feel it! I can feel it! I can feel it!”
> 
> 
> 
> At press time, staffers were panicking after Trump locked himself in the bathroom and began cutting his stomach open with a razor blade in an attempt to find the tracking chip he said The New York Times had put in his food.
> 
> (The Onion)​



Thank God for satire, or we'd all go crazy eventually.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Never had any use for The Onion. Have even less now.


It used to be funny to me, because it maintained a subtlety in the writing. Regardless of subject matter, it would always be written in proper newsy style. They're raqlly past it. Maybe the college crowd can't get the jokes unless they're sledgehammered?


----------



## chasMac

I feel the same about SNL. The comedy was more even-handed and politicians of any stripe were open season. Since George II though, the Dems are most often the straight man in a skit, appearing only to roll their eyes and look flabbergasted at the idiotic, overblown actions of a right-of-centre character.


----------



## Rps

chasMac said:


> I feel the same about SNL. The comedy was more even-handed and politicians of any stripe were open season. Since George II though, the Dems are most often the straight man in a skit, appearing only to roll their eyes and look flabbergasted at the idiotic, overblown actions of a right-of-centre character.


Okay, so I might as well light the fuse here.........do Americans get satire today? There is a world of difference between American (and I include Canada as we live in the Americas) and British political humorists. Is there any REAL AMERICAN SATIRE left today?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Okay, so I might as well light the fuse here.........do Americans get satire today? There is a world of difference between American (and I include Canada as we live in the Americas) and British political humorists. Is there any REAL AMERICAN SATIRE left today?


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Okay, so I might as well light the fuse here.........do Americans get satire today? There is a world of difference between American (and I include Canada as we live in the Americas) and British political humorists. Is there any REAL AMERICAN SATIRE left today?


No fuse lit here as I agree completely. I gave up on SNL for their overblown presentations many years back. Give me British satire any day of the week. I continue giggling each time I watch an episode of Fawlty Towers, Keeping Up Appearances, Are You Being Served?, Yes Minister and Waiting For God. Far superior to anything made in the Americas.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> I feel the same about SNL. The comedy was more even-handed and politicians of any stripe were open season. Since George II though, the Dems are most often the straight man in a skit, appearing only to roll their eyes and look flabbergasted at the idiotic, overblown actions of a right-of-centre character.


Agreed. There was a point where each skit was only about a bunch of straight characters accosted by a maniac. Once per show would have been fine, but this would be seven or eight skits in a row. That eventually transferred to their political skits as well, To be fair, there would be a few skits that cut the other way over the past eight years, but the program has largely become a Democrat house organ.


----------



## Rps

I have always thought that the ability of a political system to "laugh at itself" is an important sign of the health of that system. I'm not so sure our southern neighbour's political humour is a healthy sign as opposed to a sign of health. Thoughts, as I don't see The Donald ever being one who can take a joke.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I have always thought that the ability of a political system to "laugh at itself" is an important sign of the health of that system. I'm not so sure our southern neighbour's political humour is a healthy sign as opposed to a sign of health. Thoughts, as I don't see The Donald ever being one who can take a joke.


Interesting point, Rp. I said something similar to my wife, and then told her that the Dems should run Sen. Al Franken for President in 2020. I also see Sen. Adam Shiff as a dark horse candidate who might be making a name for himself with his logical questioning at the various Senate hearings. We shall see.

I still yearn to feel The Bern, however. How things might be different had the Dems nominated him and not Clinton. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## chasMac

I spend an enormous amount of time in Britain each year owing to my folks continuing to reside there. I gotta say I'm at the point of loathing Brit comedy. It far, far too often relies on encounters with the bizarre for what I feel are cheap laughs (originating with Python?), and much of the comedy over there has devolved into what I can only describe as working class humour: Red Dwarf, Benny Hill, and more recently Benidorm to name but a very few. The exception for me, and it is a big one, is the humour from non-traditional sources: Jeremy Clarkson and Stephen Fry and of course Churchill, to also name a very few. I concede the Brits have a penchant for dry wit still unmatched by any other nation.


----------



## Macfury

I think he's the logical extension of Republicans who have always had to grin and bear it as second-rate comedians roundhoused them without turning an eye to their own sacred cows. The humour aimed at Dems has always been delivered with a gentle nudge and a wink. It's easy for them to "take a joke."



Rps said:


> I have always thought that the ability of a political system to "laugh at itself" is an important sign of the health of that system. I'm not so sure our southern neighbour's political humour is a healthy sign as opposed to a sign of health. Thoughts, as I don't see The Donald ever being one who can take a joke.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I think he's the logical extension of Republicans who have always had to grin and bear it as second-rate comedians roundhoused them without turning an eye to their own sacred cows. The humour aimed at Dems has always been delivered with a gentle nudge and a wink. It's easy for them to "take a joke."


Is that a trait for all Conservatives? We don't seem to think of them as taking a good natured prod at themselves...... the GOPs, Tea Party, et al seem to be openly humourless. A telling trait I think. Not trying to derail the thread here but even Robert Stanfield had a sense of humour.....I think Trump not so much.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I have always thought that the ability of a political system to "laugh at itself" is an important sign of the health of that system. I'm not so sure our southern neighbour's political humour is a healthy sign as opposed to a sign of health. Thoughts, as I don't see The Donald ever being one who can take a joke.



I believe you are correct, sir. He can't tell a joke, and he certainly cannot handle being made fun of. Obama, by comparison, had a great sense of humour, and even made fun of his big ears himself on occasion. I think Obama's mental health was also far more balanced and his sense of humour was more nuanced. Ever see the time Jerry Seinfeld paid him a visit? 

https://youtu.be/UM-Q_zpuJGU


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The humour is delivered against conservatives with the relentlessness of a school bully who smashes you over the head and then asks you why you can't take a joke. The humour is only good natured when directed at liberals.



Rps said:


> Is that a trait for all Conservatives? We don't seem to think of them as taking a good natured prod at themselves...... the GOPs, Tea Party, et al seem to be openly humourless. A telling trait I think. Not trying to derail the thread here but even Robert Stanfield had a sense of humour.....I think Trump not so much.


----------



## Macfury

chasMac said:


> I spend an enormous amount of time in Britain each year owing to my folks continuing to reside there. I gotta say I'm at the point of loathing Brit comedy. It far, far too often relies on encounters with the bizarre for what I feel are cheap laughs (originating with Python?), and much of the comedy over there has devolved into what I can only describe as working class humour: Red Dwarf, Benny Hill, and more recently Benidorm to name but a very few. The exception for me, and it is a big one, is the humour from non-traditional sources: Jeremy Clarkson and Stephen Fry and of course Churchill, to also name a very few. I concede the Brits have a penchant for dry wit still unmatched by any other nation.


The encounters with oddballs probably started with the _Goon Show_, but Python can take credit for ramping that up to absurd levels for the first time. I'm thinking of that sherry-slurping vicar played by Michael Palin as I write this.

Agreed that Brits are also willing to produce some oddball dry stuff that _SNL_ audiences probably wouldn't sit through:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

_Nice to see where the priorities are for the Wingnuts south of the border. While Trump has already put Barry's golfing habit to shame, and has blown more taxpayer cash in a couple of months than Obama did in a full year of his presidency just with visits to Mar-a-Lago alone, none of the usual suspects seem to have a problem with that. How very interesting.

And now we see how taxes should be spent in Amerika: Not for PBS, not for the EPA, not for Meals on Wheels, but to ensure that Ivanka et al., can maintain their ski bunny regimen..._ 

*Ivanka Trump's family skiing 'funded by the taxpayer'*










Ivanka Trump has sparked outrage for the cost of her family’s spring break ski holiday in Colorado.

President Donald Trump’s daughter, her husband Jared Kushner, their children and the President’s other son Eric reportedly required 100 Secret Service agents to travel with the group for the trip.

The US Secret Service, funded by the US taxpayer, is reported to have spent $12,208 on rental ski equipment and clothing at the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club.

Fellow holiday-goers at the high-end ski resort in the Rocky Mountains voiced their anger about the Trump family’s presence. Some expressed their annoyance at struggling to get dinner reservations and increased traffic in their area.

Dozens of residents staged an impromptu protest to voice their opposition to the president’s cuts to the Environmental Protection Agency.

** * **​
People expressed their outrage about the skiing holiday and juxtaposed it’s said cost with the president’s recently announced extensive budget cuts to social programs.

"GOP: Taxpayers can't afford Meals on Wheels anymore, but they CAN afford to pay for Trump's kids to vacation," said one critic on Twitter.

"I'm not vacationing this year so that I can pay for Trump kids security to ski in Aspen this week. Hope I get a T-shirt," chipped in another.

(Independent UK)​


----------



## Macfury

I don't like any excessive spending by politicians. How many vacations should be allowed do you think, CM?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't like any excessive spending by politicians. How many vacations should be allowed do you think, CM?


I'm with you, mon ami. Excessive spending on the part of politicians is NOT something I support. As for vacations, go as often as you want ........... but pay for it on your own dime. Still, in the case of Pres. Trump, he should not have said that he would not be leaving the White House very often since he would be too busy running the country ............. and certainly not have much time for golf. tptptptp

I hear that the NYC police commissioner and mayor are trying to get the federal government to help with the costs of security on the Trump Towers area. It is costing the NYC/NY State taxpayer millions to provide security for Melania and Baron.
I hear that the same goes for the country in which Mar-a-lago is located in Florida. They too are under a financial strain every time he goes down there for a round of gold.

Sadly, he feels that Camp David is too "rustic" for his likes and status in life. tptptptptptptptp

I feel that when the average Trump voter realizes what they have voted for when it comes to social services that they once received and soon will not have, they are NOT going to be a happy crowd. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Donald Trump feels "somewhat vindicated" after his communications picked up by government surveillance



> President Donald Trump said he felt vindicated in his claims that he was wiretapped by his predecessor Barack Obama after it emerged some of his communications were monitored and did appear in intelligence reports.
> 
> Mr Trump and members of his team were the subject of "incidental surveillance" in the months after his election win and their names appeared in reports widely circulated in the intelligence community.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Donald Trump feels "somewhat vindicated" after his communications picked up by government surveillance



Does that mean he will somewhat apologize to his predecessor for the wiretap claim?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Donald Trump feels "somewhat vindicated" after his communications picked up by government surveillance


Oh PUH-LEAZ. This is completely unrelated to and fully does not refute Trump's allegations, to wit:



















More deflection, like Spicer trying to pin this imaginary wiretapping on the Brits a week ago.

This is just a bunch of chaff tossed out the backside of AirTrump hoping enough of it will confuse the incoming missiles.


----------



## Macfury

I think it's right on the money!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Oh PUH-LEAZ. This is completely unrelated to and fully does not refute Trump's allegations, to wit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More deflection, like Spicer trying to pin this imaginary wiretapping on the Brits a week ago.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just a bunch of chaff tossed out the backside of AirTrump hoping enough of it will confuse the incoming missiles.



Well said, Mark. I feel bad for Spicer sometimes on account of what a ****ty job to have to be the apologist for an idiot. On the other hand, yer makes yer bad and yer sleeps in it.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well said, Mark. I feel bad for Spicer sometimes on account of what a ****ty job to have to be the apologist for an idiot.


Says an apologist for Rachel Notley? Good grief!


----------



## eMacMan

It seems very likely that Trumps communications were carefully monitored during, before and even after the election. 

The NSA, FBI, CIA etc have little or no interest in monitoring or stopping terrorist activities. However the Super Elite want every bit of dirt they can find on any federal politician. With a wild card like Trump you can bet the spooks delivered. 

You can argue as to whether BO ordered the surveillance or delegated that task to a henchman, but you can be sure it was in place.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> It seems very likely that Trumps communications were carefully monitored during, before and even after the election.
> 
> The NSA, FBI, CIA etc have little or no interest in monitoring or stopping terrorist activities. However the Super Elite want every bit of dirt they can find on any federal politician. With a wild card like Trump you can bet the spooks delivered.
> 
> You can argue as to whether BO ordered the surveillance or delegated that task to a henchman, but you can be sure it was in place.



It's not that hard to monitor Trump using his tweets alone. They often reveal his temper and state of lucidity, not to mention readiness for that alien invasion. One can even figure out what time of night he tweeted based on the emotional content. some zingers immediately after a new episode of SNL airs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

He's not crazy... it's syphillis.


----------



## Dr.G.

As Trumpcare faces a crucial vote today in the House, the Trump administration is coming up with unique ways to keep the costs of "The Wall" down. They propose to tear up highways in California in those districts that did not vote for Pres. Trump, recycle it to use in building the wall. As well, prison laborers could be used as free labor to help build the wall. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Dr.G.

No vote on Trumpcare today ............. or in the near future. The Republicans had 7 years to develop a repeal and replace plan. Now, with a president who will sign this new healthcare plan they can't get their act together. So, best to blame the Democrats for this failure and move on to tax reform. 

"Success has a thousand fathers, and failure is an orphan." JFK


----------



## Macfury

Blame the RINOs for hanging onto too much of Obamacare.



Dr.G. said:


> No vote on Trumpcare today ............. or in the near future. The Republicans had 7 years to develop a repeal and replace plan. Now, with a president who will sign this new healthcare plan they can't get their act together. So, best to blame the Democrats for this failure and move on to tax reform.
> 
> "Success has a thousand fathers, and failure is an orphan." JFK


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No vote on Trumpcare today ............. or in the near future. The Republicans had 7 years to develop a repeal and replace plan. Now, with a president who will sign this new healthcare plan they can't get their act together. So, best to blame the Democrats for this failure and move on to tax reform.
> 
> 
> 
> "Success has a thousand fathers, and failure is an orphan." JFK



It was pulled....by Trump himself, no less. Saving face instead of losing face? Nobody fires the Donald.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Blame the RINOs for hanging onto too much of Obamacare.



Are you frickin' serious? The Republicans have had SEVEN YEARS to get their ****e together in this proposal—they failed, hoisted by their own petards, it seems.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Blame the RINOs for hanging onto too much of Obamacare.


As I understand it, the lack of votes came down to Republicans who didn't feel the AHCA went far enough in cutting benefits / services. So they as much as the RINOs deserve blame.



> Conservatives in the *House Freedom Caucus* maintained that the AHCA did not go far enough in its repeal of Obamacare, asking for popular regulations to be repealed. Moderates, on the other hand, said that the AHCA did not fix the problems of Obamacare and the repeal of the ACA's essential health benefits — a demand of the Freedom Caucus — would be harmful to health insurance.
> 
> GOP leaders were ultimately unable to bridge the gap between the two sides.
> (Business Insider)​


It's an embarrassing result. The guy who (via a ghostwriter) gave us "The Art of the Deal" turns out to suck at negotiating and closing this one.

As Dr.G. said: they had 7 years to build a plan to replace ObamaCare and were incapable of doing so. That speaks volumes....


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Blame the RINOs for hanging onto too much of Obamacare.


Forget them. Blame Pres. Obama. This way, in the Congressional elections in Nov. 2018, they can run against his record and his presidency and win more seats for the next round of voting. It's a winning scheme and should work ............. unless the costs for "The Wall" become too extreme and doom their tax reform bills. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> As I understand it, the lack of votes came down to Republicans who didn't feel the AHCA went far enough in cutting benefits / services. So they as much as the RINOs deserve blame.


The RINOs are the ones who started cozying up to corporate croney healthcare. The others were right to hold out, because this is not what they campaigned on--repeal and replace.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The RINOs are the ones who started cozying up to corporate croney healthcare. The others were right to hold out, because this is not what they campaigned on--repeal and replace.


Well, then they would have to be replaced with more loyal Republicans ............. and the Dems would have to be defeated in numerous districts to have such a huge majority that even holdouts would not sway the vote. FDR had this sort of majority and look at all that he did in his first 100 days and first term. Imagine Pres. Trump being placed between FDR and LBJ as the presidents that did great things for millions upon millions of Americans. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84o_CUIaGg[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Joy is really an idiot! She doesn't get it at all.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Joy is really an idiot! She doesn't get it at all.


True. Blame the Dems AND Pres. Obama. Then, if Obamacare does not "explode", he can blame them when tax reform is an even more difficult task. The "art of the deal" comes not always with a successful result, but in finding who to blame when the deal falls through.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. Blame the Dems AND Pres. Obama. Then, if Obamacare does not "explode", he can blame them when tax reform is an even more difficult task. The "art of the deal" comes not always with a successful result, but in finding who to blame when the deal falls through.


I don't think you're getting it either, Dr. G. Pulling the vote at the last minute was strategic. Health care reform will get done. And I suspect some Democrats will be on board.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Joy is really an idiot! She doesn't get it at all.


Nice point-by-point refuting of her statements, there, MF! 

God forbid someone should engage in _Ad Hominems_ in here....

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

She stupidly believes that Trump supporters changed their minds about Obamacare, instead describing Democrat nanny state supporters in their place. There's more, but I think this will suffice. 

Who is the "GOP pundit" described in the YouTube header by the way?



CubaMark said:


> Nice point-by-point refuting of her statements, there, MF!
> 
> God forbid someone should engage in _Ad Hominems_ in here....
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't think you're getting it either, Dr. G. Pulling the vote at the last minute was strategic. Health care reform will get done. And I suspect some Democrats will be on board.



I suspect you are the one who is not "getting it," Macfury. Every major thing Trump has tried to force through so far has failed, including the travel ban and the repeal and replace Obamacare. And the latter failed with a majority in both the house and the senate. Maybe, just maybe, the guy in charge has no idea what he's doing. Maybe he's just not as bright as you seem to think he is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Nice point-by-point refuting of her statements, there, MF!
> 
> 
> 
> God forbid someone should engage in _Ad Hominems_ in here....
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



^^^^ Nailed it! 












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I don't think you're getting it either, Dr. G. Pulling the vote at the last minute was strategic. Health care reform will get done. And I suspect some Democrats will be on board.


I agree. Very strategic. Parts of Obamacare need to be fixed, which the Dems will be willing to do to save the overall plan. If the plan does not "explode" as Pres. Trump said it will in 2017, the Republicans will be in a bind. So, fix the parts that need fixing and let Pres. Trump declare victory that Obamacare was replaced with Trumpcare. Many of his supporters, who will keep their coverage since Obamacare actually helped them, will be pleased. 

Now, as for tax reform .................... that will be a BIG can of worms, especially with so much going to the military and "The Wall". We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Lindsey Graham on health care: Republicans and Democrats need to work together - CNNPolitics.com

While I agree with Sen. Graham that the Dems and Republicans need to work together, in the "Art of the Deal" one does not "offer" to accept any help from the opposition. If Pres. Trump was smart, he would force the Dems to come crawling to him and ask for his support. Then, he could look magnanimous in accepting their offer. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Lindsey Graham on health care: Republicans and Democrats need to work together - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with Sen. Graham that the Dems and Republicans need to work together, in the "Art of the Deal" one does not "offer" to accept any help from the opposition. If Pres. Trump was smart, he would force the Dems to come crawling to him and ask for his support. Then, he could look magnanimous in accepting their offer. We shall see.



Speaking of Trump, how come we never hear about Tiffany? Donald wouldn't be playing favourites with his children now, would he?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Speaking of Trump, how come we never hear about Tiffany? Donald wouldn't be playing favourites with his children now, would he?


Not sure if she was invited to fly on Trump's plane to Aspen for the ski vacation. Still, the Secret Service has said that they need an additional $60 million to help cover the extra expenses to protect all of his children whenever they go/live/vacation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Not sure if she was invited to fly on Trump's plane to Aspen for the ski vacation. Still, the Secret Service has said that they need an additional $60 million to help cover the extra expenses to protect all of his children whenever they go/live/vacation.



I read a million dollars per day to provide the extra secret service protection at Trump Tower.


----------



## Beej

*The state of U.S. politics*

Not much to add. The pictures are quite good. Does it take an expensive camera to capture action so crisply?

Arrests after scuffle breaks out at California Trump rally | Daily Mail Online


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Not much to add. The pictures are quite good. Does it take an expensive camera to capture action so crisply?
> 
> Arrests after scuffle breaks out at California Trump rally | Daily Mail Online


Yep, those shots are good. Actually, an iPhone these days can deliver that kind of crispness in the hands of a knowledgable person. I suspect though, that this was done by a pro with professional equipment.


----------



## CubaMark

_And the latest on the Buffoon-in-Chief:_

*Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel* | The Independent


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> US tax dollars at work.
> 
> Your Latest Obama Golf Tab: $3 Million Plus
> 
> M'bold.


_Hey FeXL! Still think Obama's golfing trips were excessive?_

*Donald Trump takes 12th golf trip since becoming President nine weeks ago*

Donald Trump has this weekend taken his twelfth golfing holiday since his presidential inauguration just over nine weeks ago.

Departing the White House for the Trump National Golf Club in Virginia, it is unclear whether he plans to do anything other than tee off. 

The White House has made no comment regarding the trip, which the US leader's eighth consecutive weekend visit to a Trump-owned property, according to NBC News. 

*Each of these trips costs $3 million* (£2.4 million), according to an analysis by the Politico website. If correct, the President's golfing trips alone may have already cost the taxpayer $36 million dollars (£28.9 million).​
:lmao:

M


----------



## Macfury

Not as expensive as it used to be, but these are pro cameras.

These progressives are just reacting in the only way they know how to a peaceful march--violence. Is that news anymore?



Beej said:


> Not much to add. The pictures are quite good. Does it take an expensive camera to capture action so crisply?
> 
> Arrests after scuffle breaks out at California Trump rally | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Macfury

They're all excessive. Do the Trudeau trips bother you because you never seem to mention them in the Canadian thread? 



CubaMark said:


> _Hey FeXL! Still think Obama's golfing trips were excessive?_


----------



## Beej

Thanks to Sinc and Macfury for the camera points.


----------



## Macfury

Good for Trump. It's time people stopped ignoring this type of deliberate malfeasance. Even as a symbolic act it's worthwhile. Meanwhile, Merkel wants the EU to hand a bill to Great Britain for leaving the EU. What a hypocrite!



CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel* | The Independent


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump heads to play golf for the 12th time in his 9-week presidency. This is putting "a hole in one" of his campaign promise to be a better golfer than Pres. Obama or Pres. Eisenhower. We shall see. So far, best scores for an 18 hole round is Ike, Obama and then Trump. Still, as Trump said, "I still can play better than FDR, and look at what he did in his first 100 days."


----------



## Dr.G.

The failure of Republicans to put together the votes to pass the America Health Care Act is being described as a personal failure for Pres. Trump, but he didn’t wait to give his side on the story on twitter as soon as the bill was pulled.

“Can’t believe all these illegal immigrants got themselves elected to the House as Republicans to bring me down. So wrong!”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They're all excessive. Do the Trudeau trips bother you because you never seem to mention them in the Canadian thread?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, your use of referee memes only sharpens people's opinion of your ignorance regarding the rules of debate!


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> use of referee memes only sharpens people's opinion of your ignorance


With frequent use, I agree. In moderation, a good joke. If carefully placed. Haphazard use goes back to the first point.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> With frequent use, I agree. In moderation, a good joke.


Inappropriately used, a profession of ignorance. Having no facility to follow the argument does not mean it's time for a random referee meme.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Inappropriately used, a profession of ignorance. Having no facility to follow the argument does not mean it's time for a random referee meme.


Agreed.

Insert clumsy ref meme here ->


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Insert clumsy ref meme here ->


Just be sure it is childish, repetitive and boring too, please.


----------



## Dr.G.

Between March 8th and June 16th, in what later became known as the "First Hundred Days," Congress followed Roosevelt's lead by passing an incredible fifteen separate bills which, together, formed the basis of the New Deal. Several of the programs created during those three and a half months are still around in the federal government today. Some of Roosevelt's most notable actions during the Hundred Days were:

•A national bank holiday: The day after his inauguration, FDR declared a "bank holiday," closing all banks in the country to prevent a collapse of the banking system. With the banks closed, Roosevelt took measures to restore the public's confidence in the financial systems; when the banks reopened a week later, the panic was over.

•Ending the gold standard: To avoid deflation, FDR quickly suspended the gold standard.23 This meant that U.S. dollars no longer had to be backed up by gold reserves, which also meant that the government could print—and spend—more money to "prime the pump" of the economy.

•Glass-Steagall Act: The Glass-Steagall Act imposed regulations on the banking industry that guided it for over fifty years, until it was repealed in 1999.24 The law separated commercial from investment banking, forced banks to get out of the business of financial investment, banned the use of bank deposits in speculation.25 It also created the FDIC. The effect of the law was to give greater stability to the banking system.

•FDIC: The Federal Deposit Insurance Commission backed all bank deposits up to $2500, meaning that most bank customers no longer had to worry that a bank failure would wipe out their life savings.26 The agency continues to insure American deposits today.

•Federal Securities Act: This act regulated the stock markets and preceded the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission in 1934, which continues to regulate U.S. stock markets to this day.

•Agricultural Adjustment Act: The AAA provided relief to farmers by paying them to reduce production; this also helped to reduce crop surpluses and increase prices for crops.

•Civilian Conservation Corps: To reduce unemployment, put 250,000 young men to work in rural conservation projects, mostly in national parks and forests.

•Tennessee Valley Authority: The TVA provided electrification and other basic improvements the impoverished interior of the South.

•National Industrial Recovery Act: One of FDR's more controversial measures, it created new agencies and regulations that tightened the relationship between government and business. 

Public Works Administration: Funded the construction of public works projects across the country, including schools, hospitals, airports, dams, and ports, as well as ships for the Navy and airports for the Army Air Corps.

•Federal Emergency Relief Act: Provided direct relief, training and work for unemployed Americans. 

________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, it's not even April yet, so Pres. Trump has time to enact more legislation than FDR did during the first 100 days of the New Deal. Pres. Trump could make some more red hats (hopefully NOT made in China) with the slogan "Make America Great Again with the New New Deal". We shall see.

Of course, if he can't get a dozen pieces of major legislation through Congress and to his desk to sign, he can always blame Pres. Obama for "obstructionism and tampering with the electronic voting system in the House and Senate."


----------



## Macfury

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All leading to a massive extension of the Depression. A lot was required to depress America's economic cycles to naturally recover from a downturn.


----------



## CubaMark

_An oldie, but an oddly prescient goody...._

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> All leading to a massive extension of the Depression. A lot was required to depress America's economic cycles to naturally recover from a downturn.


Well, I guess we are back to our old disagreement of how to read/interpret American political and economic history. So, let us once again agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.

Still, Pres. Trump still has time to turn around his legislative record.

He could enact the Civilian Construction Corps to build "The Wall". 

He could enact the Agricultural Adjustment Ac to force all those on social assistance to undertake work out in the fruit, vegetable and nut fields of the US in order to keep their social assistance checks. This would be a fine way to replace the migrant workers, many of who will be deported as illegal immigrants. 

He could enact the National Industrial Recovery Act to force all goods coming into the US to have "Made in the USA" labels in or on them, with these labels made in the USA.

He could strengthen the IRS and The Federal Deposit Insurance Commission to enact regulations that would keep him, and all of the Trump Industries businesses from paying taxes, and that this money would be protected in whatever American or foreign bank in which it resides.

Yes, make America great once again ........................ just like during FDRR's New Deal period. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Details emerge of Melania’s misery as first lady | New York Post

Of all the left-wing fake news media reports, this one tops them all. Of course, at the helm of the NY Post, a paper started in the early 1800s by Alexander Hamilton, is Rupert Murdoch.

Rupert Murdoch, chairman of the Post and the executive chairman of the Post’s parent company, News Corp. has supported Trump throughout the primary and called for GOP candidates to “close ranks to fight the real enemy.” News Corp. is also the parent company of Fox News.

Something does NOT make sense here.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Joy is really an idiot! She doesn't get it at all.


She does not sound like an idiot to me at all. You may not like what she has to say, but she is clearly not an idiot, she is very well spoken knows her stuff relative to what she believes in and is passionate about it...

That is also one of the reasons why I don't like people calling Ezra Levant an idiot because he posses the same traits; he is clearly not an idiot, he is very well spoken knows his stuff relative to what he believes in and is passionate about it...

Relatively speaking I see no difference.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> Not much to add. The pictures are quite good. Does it take an expensive camera to capture action so crisply?
> 
> Arrests after scuffle breaks out at California Trump rally | Daily Mail Online


Yup... Like I have said before, the civil war in the US has never really ended, it has just taken on different forms.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I guess we are back to our old disagreement of how to read/interpret American political and economic history.


Considering how heated the rhetoric gets when discussing all things Trump, it is worth remembering presidents seeking to expand their power:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937


----------



## Macfury

She is well spoken and completely mistaken.



screature said:


> She does not sound like an idiot to me at all. You may not like what she has to say, but she is clearly not an idiot, she is very well spoken knows her stuff relative to what she believes in and is passionate about it...
> 
> That is also one of the reasons why I don't like people calling Ezra Levant an idiot because he posses the same traits; he is clearly not an idiot, he is very well spoken knows his stuff relative to what he believes in and is passionate about it...
> 
> Relatively speaking I see no difference.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Considering how heated the rhetoric gets when discussing all things Trump, it is worth remembering presidents seeking to expand their power:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937


It's just lovely when a Prog is in charge. 

Also read how Roosevelt made food unaffordable with the _Agricultural Adjustment Act _of 1933:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Adjustment_Act

Read up on FDR's monumental achievement of price-fixing to boost the economy:

https://fee.org/articles/the-nra-how-price-fixing-perpetuated-the-great-depression/


----------



## Dr.G.

"It's just lovely when a Prog is in charge." So very true, Macfury. Progressives have made many social programs possible, protected the environment, and kept us out of war (unless attacked). 

Long Live Progressivism. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> All leading to a massive extension of the Depression. A lot was required to depress America's economic cycles to naturally recover from a downturn.


Yes World War Two was certainly a great idea for recovery.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, this point on your prior post,

Glass-Steagall Act: The Glass-Steagall Act imposed regulations on the banking industry that guided it for over fifty years, until it was repealed in 1999.24 The law separated commercial from investment banking, forced banks to get out of the business of financial investment, banned the use of bank deposits in speculation.25 It also created the FDIC. The effect of the law was to give greater stability to the banking system.

was created to prevent the speculation in the banking industry....guess what happen when Clinton dumped it......one clueless President and 6 years of speculation equals collapse in 2008. Notice the U.S. hasn't learned from what I think was Clinton's biggest error.....2021 is the new 2008 just watch.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Yes World War Two was certainly a great idea for recovery.


With FDR depressing cyclical recovery for a decade, I doubt anything else could have achieved a measure of prosperity.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> With FDR depressing cyclical recovery for a decade, I doubt anything else could have achieved a measure of prosperity.


Macfury this is all nice and such but you can't ignore the root causes of the depression, which one of the most influential was greed and speculation... it is debatable on whether FDR prolonged a delay of the recovery, but if you were unemployed and had a family, lost your home, no food...his plan looked damn right admirable.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, this point on your prior post,
> 
> Glass-Steagall Act: The Glass-Steagall Act imposed regulations on the banking industry that guided it for over fifty years, until it was repealed in 1999.24 The law separated commercial from investment banking, forced banks to get out of the business of financial investment, banned the use of bank deposits in speculation.25 It also created the FDIC. The effect of the law was to give greater stability to the banking system.
> 
> was created to prevent the speculation in the banking industry....guess what happen when Clinton dumped it......one clueless President and 6 years of speculation equals collapse in 2008. Notice the U.S. hasn't learned from what I think was Clinton's biggest error.....2021 is the new 2008 just watch.


Sadly, all too true, Rp. I was never sure why he chose to do this. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Macfury this is all nice and such but you can't ignore the root causes of the depression, which one of the most influential was greed and speculation... it is debatable on whether FDR prolonged a delay of the recovery, but if you were unemployed and had a family, lost your home, no food...his plan looked damn right admirable.


All excellent points, Rp. :clap::clap: Luckily, FDR was the right president at the right time. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, your use of referee memes only sharpens people's opinion of your ignorance regarding the rules of debate!



Then stick to the topic, non-sequitur boy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Inappropriately used, a profession of ignorance. Having no facility to follow the argument does not mean it's time for a random referee meme.



You're talking about someone's previous comment from a completely different thread while you're on this thread. Care to explain?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Just be sure it is childish, repetitive and boring too, please.



Why does the conservative crowd generally lack any sense of haha? Relax, Don, you're way too serious.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _An oldie, but an oddly prescient goody...._
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0[/ame]



Reminds me of brave Sir Robin—when danger reared its ugly head, he promptly turned on his tail and fled...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> She does not sound like an idiot to me at all. You may not like what she has to say, but she is clearly not an idiot, she is very well spoken knows her stuff relative to what she believes in and is passionate about it...
> 
> 
> 
> That is also one of the reasons why I don't like people calling Ezra Levant an idiot because he posses the same traits; he is clearly not an idiot, he is very well spoken knows his stuff relative to what he believes in and is passionate about it...
> 
> 
> 
> Relatively speaking I see no difference.



Except that Ezra Levant prevaricates nearly as much as Donald Trump, with court cases to prove it that he begs his followers to finance.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why does the conservative crowd generally lack any sense of haha? Relax, Don, you're way too serious.


That is 'cause there is no haha in the stupid referee things you insist on making yourself look silly posting. I get humour, I just don't get repetitive crap.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> That is 'cause there is no haha in the stupid referee things you insist on making yourself look silly posting. I get humour, I just don't get repetitive crap.



Apparently you don't get the hypocrisy of criticizing others for logical fallacies either when one is just as guilty of making those same fallacies as well. Don't make the logical fallacy, and I won't post the referee meme. Make an ad hon, non-sequitur, straw man, or move the goalposts, and you can expect a flag on the play. If someone can call me out, I will be damn sure to call them out too. 

And if you don't like repetitive crap, perhaps it's time to give the criticism of progressive politicians a rest.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Macfury this is all nice and such but you can't ignore the root causes of the depression, which one of the most influential was greed and speculation... it is debatable on whether FDR prolonged a delay of the recovery, but if you were unemployed and had a family, lost your home, no food...his plan looked damn right admirable.


Look carefully at how the stockmarket bubble was built--it points directly to the federal government.


----------



## Macfury

It might be a little better if you used them appropriately. I mean, they're not funny, but one would expect them to at least work.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently you don't get the hypocrisy of criticizing others for logical fallacies either when one is just as guilty of making those same fallacies as well. Don't make the logical fallacy, and I won't post the referee meme. Make an ad hon, non-sequitur, straw man, or move the goalposts, and you can expect a flag on the play. If someone can call me out, I will be damn sure to call them out too.
> 
> And if you don't like repetitive crap, perhaps it's time to give the criticism of progressive politicians a rest.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Look carefully at how the stockmarket bubble was built--it points directly to the federal government.


 True. Each bubble was caused by greed and speculation and margin calls. Luckily, there were limits put in place by government which helped to stem the tide of massive losses. Still, even government cannot get in front of a wave of greed, be it on the part of investors or big banks and investment houses. To their credit, neither FDR placed blame on Hoover, nor did Obama blame Bush. They just got the country back on it's feet once again. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

The federal Reserve engaged in a simultaneous massive increase in money supply and lowering of interest rates between 1921 and 1929. Investors were unwittingly playing a part in a massive Ponzi scheme fueled by government printing presses.


----------



## CubaMark

_And the Buffoon-in-Chief continues to disappoint those who voted for him...._

*Trump Voter Shocked To Find That Her Meals On Wheels Could Be Cut*









(Photo via Indy100 / The Independent UK)​
Linda Preast has used a wheelchair since she had a stroke two years ago and now relies on Meals on Wheels, a service that provides food to millions of people with disabilities and the elderly. The 56-year-old Georgia resident never envisioned when she voted for President Donald Trump that he’d propose slashing funding for the programs.

“Are you surprised?” CBS News correspondent Michelle Miller asked Preast at her home in Jones County Saturday.

“Yeah,” Preast said. “Because he was told ― I was under the influence that he was going to help us.”

On Thursday, White House Budget Director Mick Mulvaney attacked the service, saying programs like Meals on Wheels “are just not showing any results.”

“We can’t do that anymore,” Mulvaney said. “We can’t spend money on programs just because they sound good. And Meals on Wheels sounds great.”

The statements followed the Trump administration’s recent budget proposal, which would give $54 billion to the U.S. military while decimating funding for federal programs including the Environmental Protection Agency, the State Department and the Education Department.

(Huffington Post)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The federal Reserve engaged in a simultaneous massive increase in money supply and lowering of interest rates between 1921 and 1929. Investors were unwittingly playing a part in a massive Ponzi scheme fueled by government printing presses.


Once again, true. From Pres. Harding, to Pres. Coolidge to Pres. Hoover, the deck was stacked against the small investor. Luckily, FDR was able to stop this Ponzi scheme of putting 10% down on a stock that crashed.


----------



## Macfury

You'll always fond people who have buyer's regret over voting. Leave it to HuffPo to find some poor marginalized person and make fun of them, so they look like aresholes.



CubaMark said:


> _And the Buffoon-in-Chief continues to disappoint those who voted for him...._


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It might be a little better if you used them appropriately. I mean, they're not funny, but one would expect them to at least work.



Look up "non-sequitur" and tell me what you see, Macfury.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The federal Reserve engaged in a simultaneous massive increase in money supply and lowering of interest rates between 1921 and 1929. Investors were unwittingly playing a part in a massive Ponzi scheme fueled by government printing presses.



An interesting perspective, and one that deserves further consideration.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> An interesting perspective, and one that deserves further consideration.


Luckily, FDR along with Pres. Obama and their key advisors, were astute and understood economics. John Maynard Keynes was the first economist to accurately describe the workings of the economy. He was also one of the first economists to recognize the behavioral underpinnings of economic activity. When panic grips the economy as happened in The Great Depression, and in the fall of 2008, consumers and businesses lose confidence and become too fearful to act. Banks won't lend, businesses won't invest, consumers dramatically reduce spending. The economy slides into a downward spiral and eventual stagnation. The result is an economy performing at a greatly contracted level of activity. Left to itself, the moribund economy would stagnate for years in a repeat of the Great Depression.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, FDR and his key advisors, were astute and understood economics. John Maynard Keynes was the first economist to accurately describe the workings of the economy.


I think Keynes accurately described the dreadful effect of government intervention in the economy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, FDR along with Pres. Obama and their key advisors, were astute and understood economics. John Maynard Keynes was the first economist to accurately describe the workings of the economy. He was also one of the first economists to recognize the behavioral underpinnings of economic activity. When panic grips the economy as happened in The Great Depression, and in the fall of 2008, consumers and businesses lose confidence and become too fearful to act. Banks won't lend, businesses won't invest, consumers dramatically reduce spending. The economy slides into a downward spiral and eventual stagnation. The result is an economy performing at a greatly contracted level of activity. Left to itself, the moribund economy would stagnate for years in a repeat of the Great Depression.



In these times, it seems anything is possible. And one cannot blame Obama forever.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> In these times, it seems anything is possible. And one cannot blame Obama forever.


Certainly not the way Obama blamed George Bush for the full eight years of his presidency.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Certainly not the way Obama blamed George Bush for the full eight years of his presidency.



Well he did inherit a mess. A mess, I tell you. Disgraceful.


----------



## FeXL

Yes, I do.

And, if Trump continues along this same path, I may also consider them excessive. Thing is, Trump has accomplished more in his first few weeks than Barry did in his first complete term. I have fewer issues with somebody taking time to golf if they've actually done something to earn the time off. Barry didn't.



CubaMark said:


> Hey FeXL! Still think Obama's golfing trips were excessive?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well he did inherit a mess. A mess, I tell you. Disgraceful.


And after eight years of Obama everything was either the same or worse than 2008!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yes, I do.
> 
> 
> 
> And, if Trump continues along this same path, I may also consider them excessive. Thing is, Trump has accomplished more in his first few weeks than Barry did in his first complete term. I have fewer issues with somebody taking time to golf if they've actually done something to earn the time off. Barry didn't.



Accomplishing things? Like you mean having the travel ban cancelled and pulling his own Trumpcare bill? And being investigated regarding his wiretapping claim? Great accomplishments indeed. Anybody can sign Executive Orders. Big deal. Persuading Congress to share your vision is a whole other matter. And. He. Has. A. Majority.


----------



## Macfury

The wiretapping claim is being proved true. As for the rest, Trump has to work twice as hard to cut through the Establishment. An Establishment type such as yourself would find that difficult to see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The wiretapping claim is being proved true. As for the rest, Trump has to work twice as hard to cut through the Establishment. An Establishment type such as yourself would find that difficult to see.


True. Various intelligence services were monitoring foreign persons of interest, and for some reason, Trump associates called them or they were called by these persons, all of whom were identified as potential threats for the US. So, Trump and his associates were not "tapped", people they contacted or were contacted by these people were monitored. Very interesting. It's all a matter of perspective.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Awrite, let's analyze a few of these things, shall we?

Getting the travel ban cancelled was not him. It was the Ninth Circus, who, incidentally, has nearly 80% of it's decisions reversed by the Supreme Court.

As far as the Trumpcare bill being pulled, it was the smart thing to do. It wasn't what he campaigned on & was nothing more than Obamacare Lite.

As far as his wiretapping "claim", there appears to be significant evidence that he was being monitored by a number of TLA's. If you haven't read about them, it's time to find other sources for your news.

As to your executive order comment, yes, I agree. Funny you never seemed to have an issue when Barry signed his 276 EO's.

As to your "majority" observation, when a significant portion of your majority is RINO's & CINO's who are more left than right, & vote so...well, I'll let you figger it out.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Accomplishing things? Like you mean having the travel ban cancelled and pulling his own Trumpcare bill? And being investigated regarding his wiretapping claim? Great accomplishments indeed. Anybody can sign Executive Orders. Big deal. Persuading Congress to share your vision is a whole other matter. And. He. Has. A. Majority.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The wiretapping claim is being proved true. As for the rest, Trump has to work twice as hard to cut through the Establishment. An Establishment type such as yourself would find that difficult to see.


This one hinges on semantics. Notice the talking point is always Trump was not "wiretapped". A weasel word to be sure as wiretapping is obsolete. Modern surveillance techniques do not rely on or even employ "wiretapping". 

The intelligence community no doubt thoroughly monitored the Trump, and could easily have done so with out the luxury of wiretaps.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> ....Notice the talking point is always Trump was not "wiretapped". A weasel word to be sure as wiretapping is obsolete. Modern surveillance techniques do not rely on or even employ "wiretapping". ....


Yes. And the distraction effort appears to be somewhat successful, as people are focusing entirely on that and not the entirety of Trump's tweets, which were very specific:


















Trump very clearly —no air quotes— claims his phones were "tapp"ed (sic) by direct order of Obama, not in any incidental capturing of Trump and cronies via surveillance of third parties.

And what of Trump's claim that Obama was "turned down by court earlier"? 

When the Buffoon-in-Chief speaks, reporters should be dogged about getting some straight answers (futile, but the exercise is interesting to watch).


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Awrite, let's analyze a few of these things, shall we?
> 
> Getting the travel ban cancelled was not him. It was the Ninth Circus, who, incidentally, has nearly 80% of it's decisions reversed by the Supreme Court.
> 
> As far as the Trumpcare bill being pulled, it was the smart thing to do. It wasn't what he campaigned on & was nothing more than Obamacare Lite.
> 
> As far as his wiretapping "claim", there appears to be significant evidence that he was being monitored by a number of TLA's. If you haven't read about them, it's time to find other sources for your news.
> 
> As to your executive order comment, yes, I agree. Funny you never seemed to have an issue when Barry signed his 276 EO's.
> 
> As to your "majority" observation, when a significant portion of your majority is RINO's & CINO's who are more left than right, & vote so...well, I'll let you figger it out.



So in other words, he got nothin" done! Funny how the W could get stuff passed.....


----------



## FeXL

First off, as usual, Freddie's list is something short of exhaustive & merely echoes Prog talking points with little to no substance.

Second, Dubya's team mates didn't hate him 'cause he didn't present a threat to their existence. Trump's opposition, on both sides of the spectrum, are shaking in their boots & fighting him tooth & nail.



Rps said:


> So in other words, he got nothin" done! Funny how the W could get stuff passed.....


----------



## FeXL

You mean, just like they did for Barry? And currently for The Hairdo? Ask the Prog journalists (but I repeat myself) to actually do their job?

Where's that ROTFLMAO emoticon? Ah, yes, here it is: :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> ...reporters should be dogged about getting some straight answers...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The wiretapping claim is being proved true. As for the rest, Trump has to work twice as hard to cut through the Establishment. An Establishment type such as yourself would find that difficult to see.



In what world is the wiretapping claim being proven true?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Awrite, let's analyze a few of these things, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> Getting the travel ban cancelled was not him. It was the Ninth Circus, who, incidentally, has nearly 80% of it's decisions reversed by the Supreme Court.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the Trumpcare bill being pulled, it was the smart thing to do. It wasn't what he campaigned on & was nothing more than Obamacare Lite.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as his wiretapping "claim", there appears to be significant evidence that he was being monitored by a number of TLA's. If you haven't read about them, it's time to find other sources for your news.
> 
> 
> 
> As to your executive order comment, yes, I agree. Funny you never seemed to have an issue when Barry signed his 276 EO's.
> 
> 
> 
> As to your "majority" observation, when a significant portion of your majority is RINO's & CINO's who are more left than right, & vote so...well, I'll let you figger it out.



Boy. Even when your people win you still have excuses for why they can't get their ****e together. I suppose if they are that many RINO's and CINO's out there, then the Republicans didn't win by as much as they thought they did. I'll bet it was those three million dead and illegal voters that buggered it up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> This one hinges on semantics. Notice the talking point is always Trump was not "wiretapped". A weasel word to be sure as wiretapping is obsolete. Modern surveillance techniques do not rely on or even employ "wiretapping".
> 
> The intelligence community no doubt thoroughly monitored the Trump, and could easily have done so with out the luxury of wiretaps.



It's the word the current leader of the free world chose to use. That should tell you something.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Yes. And the distraction effort appears to be somewhat successful, as people are focusing entirely on that and not the entirety of Trump's tweets, which were very specific:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump very clearly —no air quotes— claims his phones were "tapp"ed (sic) by direct order of Obama, not in any incidental capturing of Trump and cronies via surveillance of third parties.
> 
> 
> 
> And what of Trump's claim that Obama was "turned down by court earlier"?
> 
> 
> 
> When the Buffoon-in-Chief speaks, reporters should be dogged about getting some straight answers (futile, but the exercise is interesting to watch).



Perhaps "tapp" has a different connotation than "tap," as he clearly spelled it differently for a reason. The President makes no mistakes.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You mean, just like they did for Barry? And currently for The Hairdo? Ask the Prog journalists (but I repeat myself) to actually do their job?


I'm not talking about Barry nor the Hairdo, neither of which I support nor see as good leaders. The one thing Obama has over the Buffoon is class... there is likely no other example as clear that shows how little effect money has on character. Trudeau is a disappointment all around, even to those who supported the Liberals in the last election.

But let's not get caught up (yet again) in your attempts at distraction.

Your Orange Saviour made false claims (aka "lies") and unsubstantiated allegations (also aka "lies"). Do you think the President of the USA should be allowed to get away with that kind of deception, or should he be held to account?

Just how powerful are those blinders you wear?


----------



## Macfury

Obama has lied to the public for years and years. Why start a crusade now?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Obama has lied to the public for years and years. Why start a crusade now?


"Crusade"?

Is that what not letting the Liar-in-Chief get away with his bull**** is now?

If *any* of the lies that Drumph has told had come from Obama's mouth, you guys would be having apoplectic fits.

There's a word for that.....

XX)


----------



## CubaMark

*Gibberish Is the White House's New Normal*









Once upon a time, there were presidents for whom English seemed their native language. Barack Obama most recently. He deliberated. At a press conference or in an interview — just about whenever he wasn’t speaking from a text — his pauses were as common as other people’s “uh’s.” He was not pausing because his vocabulary was impoverished. He was pausing to put words into sequence. He was putting phrases together with care, word by word, trying out words before uttering them, checking to feel out what they would sound like once uttered. It was important to him because he did not want to be misunderstood. President Obama valued precision, in no small part because he knew he lived in a world where every last presidential word was a speech act, a declaration with consequence, so that the very statement that the sky was blue, say, would be scoured for evidence that the president was declaring a policy on the nature of nature.

That was then. Now we have a president who, when he speaks, spatters the air with unfinished chunks, many of which do not qualify as sentences, and which do not follow from previous chunks. He does not release words into a stream of consciousness but into a heap. He heaps words on top of words, to overwhelm meaning with vague gestures. He does not think, he lurches.

** * **​
But the problem is not just that Trump lies, or that he lies about having lied. The problem is not just that he distracts — for example, changing the subject from his entanglements with Russians to the leakers who leak stories about his entanglements with Russians. The problem is that he insinuates more than he argues. He disdains not only evidence but logic. He asserts by indirection. This is bubble-think. It makes a sort of sense only if you’re trapped in the bubble with him.
( TODD GITLIN @ BillMoyers.com)​


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, The Donald still hasn't learned when to stop electioneering. What you call his mindless rants, he would call talking to his base. He will learn soon enough to ensure when he speaks others will listen and get the right message.....if he doesn't he is dead in the water. This last week was a first class lesson on how politics is done....the CEO approach won't work so he"ll have to become presidential.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> ....the CEO approach won't work so he"ll have to become presidential.


I'll have to set my DVR for that one... Trump "becoming Presidential" will be an event the likes of our first encounter with aliens, or steady, unblurred video of bigfoot, or FeXL admitting his right-wing anti-muslim conspiracy sources are unreliable....  :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Obama's lies were so glib and consistent I barely commented on them after awhile--I just waited for the end of it.



CubaMark said:


> "Crusade"?
> 
> Is that what not letting the Liar-in-Chief get away with his bull**** is now?
> 
> If *any* of the lies that Drumph has told had come from Obama's mouth, you guys would be having apoplectic fits.
> 
> There's a word for that.....
> 
> XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Gibberish Is the White House's New Normal*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once upon a time, there were presidents for whom English seemed their native language. Barack Obama most recently. He deliberated. At a press conference or in an interview — just about whenever he wasn’t speaking from a text — his pauses were as common as other people’s “uh’s.” He was not pausing because his vocabulary was impoverished. He was pausing to put words into sequence. He was putting phrases together with care, word by word, trying out words before uttering them, checking to feel out what they would sound like once uttered. It was important to him because he did not want to be misunderstood. President Obama valued precision, in no small part because he knew he lived in a world where every last presidential word was a speech act, a declaration with consequence, so that the very statement that the sky was blue, say, would be scoured for evidence that the president was declaring a policy on the nature of nature.
> 
> 
> 
> That was then. Now we have a president who, when he speaks, spatters the air with unfinished chunks, many of which do not qualify as sentences, and which do not follow from previous chunks. He does not release words into a stream of consciousness but into a heap. He heaps words on top of words, to overwhelm meaning with vague gestures. He does not think, he lurches.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> But the problem is not just that Trump lies, or that he lies about having lied. The problem is not just that he distracts — for example, changing the subject from his entanglements with Russians to the leakers who leak stories about his entanglements with Russians. The problem is that he insinuates more than he argues. He disdains not only evidence but logic. He asserts by indirection. This is bubble-think. It makes a sort of sense only if you’re trapped in the bubble with him.
> 
> ( TODD GITLIN @ BillMoyers.com)​



Exactement, as the French would say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> CubaMark, The Donald still hasn't learned when to stop electioneering. What you call his mindless rants, he would call talking to his base. He will learn soon enough to ensure when he speaks others will listen and get the right message.....if he doesn't he is dead in the water. This last week was a first class lesson on how politics is done....the CEO approach won't work so he"ll have to become presidential.



I do not believe Donald is capable of becoming Presidential, Rps. Many thought he would put away the Twitter once he became President, but most of us knew better. As Dr. Phil says, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I guess that's why Obama remained an agitator instead of a president.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I do not believe is capable of becoming Presidential, Rps. As Dr. Phil says, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Always a silver lining.


----------



## SINC

Bah, the onion again? Not a credible media to say the least. And worse, not even remotely funny.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Bah, the onion again? Not a credible media to say the least. And worse, not even remotely funny.



Like I said, you need to work on your sense of ha-ha, Don. And irony, while you're at it.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said, you need to work on your sense of ha-ha, Don. And irony, while you're at it.


It should be argued that comment might better be directed at yourself, mine is fine.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said, you need to work on your sense of ha-ha, Don. And irony, while you're at it.


You've might be more selective in what you present. Every random link can't be a laugh fest.


----------



## FeXL

I'm not distracting. I've been harping about reporters actually doing their f'ing job for years. Even started a thread on it.

Why is it only now that you appear to be getting on board with the sentiment? Because it's Trump?

Convenient...



CubaMark said:


> But let's not get caught up (yet again) in your attempts at distraction.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, it's not worth my time to explain it in detail. If you are not aware of the anti-Trump sentiment on both sides, go learn something.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Boy. (blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH!!!)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, it's not worth .... blah blah avoid blah blah



And why do you suppose there is anti-Trump sentiment on both sides? Could it be because Trump is just not very good?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And why do you suppose there is anti-Trump sentiment on both sides? Could it be because Trump is just not very good?


Nope. It's because he threatens Establishment types such as yourself.


----------



## Macfury

Bravo!

Trump signs executive order rolling back Obama-era energy regs | Fox News


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Nope. It's because he threatens Establishment types such as yourself.


Exactly. They are scared witless that their entitlements & gravy train are about to come to a crashing halt.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nope. It's because he threatens Establishment types such as yourself.



And why on earth do you not see Trump as an establishment type? Granted it's his own establishment, but he is hardly a free spirited independent thinker.

It's also very odd that you see me as an Establishment type. I would say that describes you better, based on all the conservative things you say. No accounting for taste.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> And why on earth do you not see Trump as an establishment type? Granted it's his own establishment, but he is hardly a free spirited independent thinker.


Nor is he the 'trained seal politician' that preceded him for decades now. And that alone is refreshing.

Not to say that I support him in any way. But mark my words, he will shake up the establishment enough to change the very idea of the presidency forever.


----------



## CubaMark

_Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Doo dee doo dee dee...._

*Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia*


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's also very odd that you see me as an Establishment type. I would say that describes you better, based on all the conservative things you say. No accounting for taste.


Public union school teacher type with very mainstream ideas about advancing the role of the state.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Doo dee doo dee dee...._
> 
> *Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia*


Considering Yates' simmering hostility to Trump out of the gate, I wouldn't want her to testify either.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Nor is he the 'trained seal politician' that preceded him for decades now. And that alone is refreshing.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to say that I support him in any way. But mark my words, he will shake up the establishment enough to change the very idea of the presidency forever.




Sure. He will make people long for the mental stability of the establishment of days gone by.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Public union school teacher type with very mainstream ideas about advancing the role of the state.



Stereotype much?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Stereotype much?


Typical, not stereotypical. Very safe collectivist views on almost any subject.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Typical, not stereotypical. Very safe collectivist views on almost any subject.



Yeah, well, I do not fit your preconceived notion of who you think I am. In fact, you are wrong about me more often than not. But by all means, keep patting yourself on the back about the accuracy of your perceptions.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, well, I do not fit your preconceived notion of who you think I am. In fact, you are wrong about me more often than not. But by all means, keep patting yourself on the back about the accuracy of your perceptions.


I'd bet money on it!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Considering Yates' simmering hostility to Trump out of the gate, I wouldn't want her to testify either.


Are you suggesting the former Acting Attorney General would lie under oath? What's your basis for that belief?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Are you suggesting the former Acting Attorney General would lie under oath? What's your basis for that belief?


Because Obama's previous Attorneys General, Holder and Lynch, were serial liars I would be suspicious of this one as well. Who knows--she might be an honest one, but I wouldn't want to chance it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Because Obama's previous Attorneys General, Holder and Lynch, were serial liars I would be suspicious of this one as well. Who knows--she might be an honest one, but I wouldn't want to chance it.



Don't even try, Mark. He can't hear you with the Tim foil hat on.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

2016: We have had no contact with the Russians

2017: We may have had some contact with the Russians

2018: Я активно работаю с россией


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't even try, Mark. He can't hear you with the Tim foil hat on.


If I believed you were actually keeping up with US news instead of memes, I might be up for a more detailed response.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From the US holocaust museum. Look familiar?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> From the US holocaust museum. Look familiar?


Yes, this was the Obama administration incarnate. Good thing Trump is tearing it apart.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, this was the Obama administration incarnate. Good thing Trump is tearing it apart.



Again with the knee jerk, "I know you are but what am I." Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Again with the knee jerk, "I know you are but what am I." Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


I thought it was the Obama Administration.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I thought it was the Obama Administration.



Shall we go with the first or second definition? Let's go with the second one.


----------



## Macfury

Guess you did a bad job presenting your opinion.


----------



## Dr.G.

The plot thickens. Wonder where Sen. Joe McCarthy would have stood on this issue?


----------



## Macfury

Boris and Natasha were from Pottsylvania--but that's a funny cartoon!


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump 'feels great' about criticism of spending millions on Mar-a-Lago trips, says Sean Spicer*

The President’s recreational trips stand in strong contrast to his comments made on the campaign trail last year, when he said he would “rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done”. 

But Mr Trump has made no indication of halting his trips to his Florida property. 

Yet concerns abound over how the Presidency can properly function at the resort. There was outcry after Mr Trump’ messy response to a North Korean missile test was documented on social media by Mar-a-Lago guests in the same room. 

On the same trip, a guest posted a picture of himself to Facebook posting with a military official who apparently was carrying the nuclear codes. 

** * *​*
It was recently announced the Government Accountability Office will examine security procedures of the Secret Service at Mar-a-Lago and the costs of the government employees travelling there. 

*The projected cost of security for Mr Trump’s visits over a four year presidential term was reported to be an estimated to be $600 million. This is just over the amount his administration plans on cutting for social, education and cultural programmes. *
(The Independent UK)​


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump 'feels great' about criticism of spending millions on Mar-a-Lago trips, says Sean Spicer*
> 
> The President’s recreational trips stand in strong contrast to his comments made on the campaign trail last year, when he said he would “rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done”.
> 
> But Mr Trump has made no indication of halting his trips to his Florida property.
> 
> Yet concerns abound over how the Presidency can properly function at the resort. There was outcry after Mr Trump’ messy response to a North Korean missile test was documented on social media by Mar-a-Lago guests in the same room.
> 
> On the same trip, a guest posted a picture of himself to Facebook posting with a military official who apparently was carrying the nuclear codes.
> 
> ** * *​*
> It was recently announced the Government Accountability Office will examine security procedures of the Secret Service at Mar-a-Lago and the costs of the government employees travelling there.
> 
> *The projected cost of security for Mr Trump’s visits over a four year presidential term was reported to be an estimated to be $600 million. This is just over the amount his administration plans on cutting for social, education and cultural programmes. *
> (The Independent UK)​


Get with the program, Mark. "Do as I say, not as I do."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Boris and Natasha were from Pottsylvania--but that's a funny cartoon!


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in -- Katie Walsh, the White House's deputy chief of staff, will be leaving the White House.

"I've got to go, Donald. It's all right. I'm not afraid. Some time, Donald, when the administration is up against it, when things are wrong and the breaks are beating the boys, ask them to go in there with all they've got and win just one for Katie. I don't know where I'll be then, Donald. But I'll know about it, and I'll be happy."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Here's some interesting reading about the Russia/Trump connection. 










From the article: 



> In early December, the whole thing, 35 pages, was sent to Senator John McCain, who pressed the FBI director to investigate exhaustively.
> 
> The following month, the intelligence agencies briefed both then-President Barack Obama and Trump about the dossier - and the entire contents were published by Buzzfeed.
> 
> In the report, Steele spoke of an "established operational liaison between the TRUMP team and the Kremlin… an intelligence exchange had been running between them for at least 8 years."
> 
> Members of the Obama administration believe, based on analysis they saw from the intelligence community, that the information exchange claimed by Steele continued into the election.
> 
> "This is a three-headed operation," said one former official, setting out the case, based on the intelligence: Firstly, hackers steal damaging emails from senior Democrats. Secondly, the stories based on this hacked information appear on Twitter and Facebook, posted by thousands of automated "bots", then on Russia's English-language outlets, RT and Sputnik, then right-wing US "news" sites such as Infowars and Breitbart, then Fox and the mainstream media. Thirdly, Russia downloads the online voter rolls.
> 
> Trump 'compromising' claims: How and why did we get here?
> The people around Donald Trump
> The voter rolls are said to fit into this because of "microtargeting". Using email, Facebook and Twitter, political advertising can be tailored very precisely: individual messaging for individual voters.
> 
> "You are stealing the stuff and pushing it back into the US body politic," said the former official, "you know where to target that stuff when you're pushing it back."
> 
> This would take co-operation with the Trump campaign, it is claimed.
> 
> President Donald Trump makes remarks at a reception for U.S. Senators and their spouses in the East Room of the White House on March 28, 2017 in Washington, DCGetty Images
> Trump has accused his predecessor of "wire tapping" him, without any proof
> "If you need to ensure that white women in Pennsylvania don't vote or independents get pissed in Michigan so they stay home: that's voter suppression. You can figure what your target demographics and locations are from the voter rolls. Then you can use that to target your bot."
> 
> This is the "big picture" some accuse the FBI of failing to see.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39435786


----------



## Macfury

It pretty much says that nothing regarding Trump and Russia has a shred of evidence behind it. Thanks for posting!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> It pretty much says that nothing regarding Trump and Russia has a shred of evidence behind it. Thanks for posting!


*Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Doo dee doo dee doo....*


Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has offered to cooperate with congressional investigators in exchange for immunity from prosecution, a suggestion that has been met with initial skepticism, according to people familiar with the matter.

“General Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit,’’ Flynn’s attorney, Robert Kelner, said in a statement Thursday evening. “Out of respect for the committees, we will not comment right now on the details of discussions between counsel for General Flynn and the House and Senate intelligence committees, other than to confirm that those discussions have taken place. But it is important to acknowledge the circumstances in which those discussions are occurring.’’

The committees are both looking into whether any associates of Donald Trump may have coordinated with agents of the Russian government seeking to meddle in last year’s presidential election. The FBI is also investigating. The Trump administration has denied any such coordination.
(Washington Post)​


----------



## eMacMan

Important to remember that what the Russians stand accused of is revealing the dirty tricks the DNC used to assure that Hillary won the nomination. 

Also important to recall that the information became public as a result of leaks, not via a hacker.

The entire Russian bit is a combination of a smoke screen and an attempt to re-ignite the cold war. Can't imagine who would be behind that except maybe the entire MIC and the intelligence community.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Doo dee doo dee doo....*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has offered to cooperate with congressional investigators in exchange for immunity from prosecution, a suggestion that has been met with initial skepticism, according to people familiar with the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> “General Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit,’’ Flynn’s attorney, Robert Kelner, said in a statement Thursday evening. “Out of respect for the committees, we will not comment right now on the details of discussions between counsel for General Flynn and the House and Senate intelligence committees, other than to confirm that those discussions have taken place. But it is important to acknowledge the circumstances in which those discussions are occurring.’’
> 
> 
> 
> The committees are both looking into whether any associates of Donald Trump may have coordinated with agents of the Russian government seeking to meddle in last year’s presidential election. The FBI is also investigating. The Trump administration has denied any such coordination.
> 
> (Washington Post)​



Flynn wants immunity, just like any other non-guilty person might. MF's simplistic comments notwithstanding, the evidence of Russian involvement in the US election is becoming impossible to ignore.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Important to remember that what the Russians stand accused of is revealing the dirty tricks the DNC used to assure that Hillary won the nomination.
> 
> Also important to recall that the information became public as a result of leaks, not via a hacker.
> 
> The entire Russian bit is a combination of a smoke screen and an attempt to re-ignite the cold war. Can't imagine who would be behind that except maybe the entire MIC and the intelligence community.



I think you might want to pay a little closer attention to this story, eMacman. Putin hates Hillary for dissing him a few years back, and he would do anything he can to prevent her from becoming POTUS. The GOP are the dupes that fell for it and allowed Chump to become their representative. Now they're just gritting their teeth and looking for a way out.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think you might want to pay a little closer attention to this story, eMacman. Putin hates Hillary for dissing him a few years back, and he would do anything he can to prevent her from becoming POTUS. The GOP are the dupes that fell for it and allowed Chump to become their representative. Now they're just gritting their teeth and looking for a way out.



Ahhh one of the DNC dirty tricks was helping to manipulate the Trump nomination. He was the only candidate the DNC thought Hillary could beat. 

The info that it was a leak not a hack, was readily available before the DNC tried to blame the Russians. Wikileaks has come within a whisker of admitting the leak was within the DNC. Again the supposed Russian dastardly deed was revealing the DNC dirty laundry by releasing the DNC's own eMails. 

I think even more importantly you would have a devil of a time finding a single voter who changed his presidential ballot from Demorat to Republirat as a result of those revelations. They were just too late in the contest to have much impact. 

OTOH if the leaks scared the DNC away from rigging voting machines, then you could make a legitimate claim that it did cost Hillary an illegitimate win.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Ahhh one of the DNC dirty tricks was helping to manipulate the Trump nomination. He was the only candidate the DNC thought Hillary could beat.
> 
> The info that it was a leak not a hack, was readily available before the DNC tried to blame the Russians. Wikileaks has come within a whisker of admitting the leak was within the DNC. Again the supposed Russian dastardly deed was revealing the DNC dirty laundry by releasing the DNC's own eMails.
> 
> I think even more importantly you would have a devil of a time finding a single voter who changed his presidential ballot from Demorat to Republirat as a result of those revelations. They were just too late in the contest to have much impact.
> 
> OTOH if the leaks scared the DNC away from rigging voting machines, then you could make a legitimate claim that it did cost Hillary an illegitimate win.



I have a very different hunch about what will transpire. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think you might want to pay a little closer attention to this story, eMacman. Putin hates Hillary for dissing him a few years back, and he would do anything he can to prevent her from becoming POTUS. The GOP are the dupes that fell for it and allowed Chump to become their representative. Now they're just gritting their teeth and looking for a way out.


The Uranium One deal is all you need to know about the relationship between Putin and Hillary.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Flynn wants immunity, just like any other non-guilty person might. MF's simplistic comments notwithstanding, the evidence of Russian involvement in the US election is becoming impossible to ignore.


As per Flynn's counsel--not the _WSJ:_



> Notwithstanding his life of national service, the media are awash with unfounded allegations, outrageous claims of treason, and vicious innuendo directed against him. He is now the target of unsubstantiated public demands by Members of Congress and other political critics that he be criminally investigated. *No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution*.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Flynn wants immunity, just like any other non-guilty person might. MF's simplistic comments notwithstanding, the evidence of Russian involvement in the US election is becoming impossible to ignore.


Flynn and Trump's comments during the presidential campaign that only guilty persons need immunity will come back to haunt them sometime in the near future. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Flynn and Trump's comments during the presidential campaign that only guilty persons need immunity will come back to haunt them sometime in the near future. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



On the Rachel Maddow Show and others, they already have. Hoisted by his own petards, I's say. If you want to know who's really calling the shots, follow the trail of dead Russians.


----------



## Macfury

Rachel Maddow--there's a source you can trust!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Rachel Maddow--there's a source you can trust!


----------



## Macfury

Got it wrong again Freddie. Your original argument was the fallacy known as "appeal to authority." I attacked the source of the argument as unreliable. How soon you forget (or never knew):

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-for-fake-hit-on-trumps-tax-returns/21891592/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Got it wrong again Freddie. Your original argument was the fallacy known as "appeal to authority." I attacked the source of the argument as unreliable. How soon you forget (or never knew):
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-for-fake-hit-on-trumps-tax-returns/21891592/















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Another clunker. Someone else explain it to him.


----------



## Macfury

Macfury said:


> As per Flynn's counsel--not the _WSJ:_


Flynn is neither receiving immunity, nor testifying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Another clunker. Someone else explain it to him.


----------



## Macfury

That's even sadder. A "pretend eject."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Flynn is neither receiving immunity, nor testifying.


God bless the 5th Amendment.

I still say it would be very interesting if Sen. Joe McCarthy and his committee, and the HUAC were still in existence and conducting this sort of "witch hunt". Such is Life.


----------



## Dr.G.

William McKinley was the last president NOT to have a dog as a pet in the White House ............... until now.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> William McKinley was the last president NOT to have a dog as a pet in the White House ............... until now.


He was promised a goldendoodle named Patton, but the owner reneged because she fell in love with the pup.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He was promised a goldendoodle named Patton, but the owner reneged because she fell in love with the pup.


What!!!!!!!!!! "Lock her up ............ lock her up ............. off with her head."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> What!!!!!!!!!! "Lock her up ............ lock her up ............. off with her head."




The owner's head, I trust—not the dog's.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


>





Freddie_Biff said:


>





Freddie_Biff said:


>


Come on Frank, use your own words instead of these lazy ass memes!!! They are boring and completely unoriginal. If you have nothing to say for yourself then just count to 10... and don't post a lazy ass meme and post nothing at all. That would be better. You are embarrassing yourself at this point. 

The Frank that I once knew actually had something to say for himself and not a mindless re-posting of overused memes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Come on Frank, use your own words instead of these lazy ass memes!!! They are boring and completely unoriginal. If you have nothing to say for yourself then just count to 10... and don't post a lazy ass meme and post nothing at all. That would be better. You are embarrassing yourself at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> The Frank that I once knew actually had something to say for himself and not a mindless re-posting of overused memes.


 
I'll say something to someone who actually wants to have an intelligent discussion, no problem. But that discussion need to be respectful going both ways. I have plenty of intelligent discussions with people in other sites, but since John went away as mayor a few years ago, this place has unfortunately lost its openness and general respect for one another. It's sad, really, but it's the truth. You are one of about four people I can actually have a discussion with from time to time, and even then, the discussion is sometimes unnecessarily fraught with tension. It doesn't need to be, Steve. 

I like to discuss ideas, even if I disagree with them, and I don't like feeling defensive all the time. There are great memes out there that encapsulate the point very well, just as there are great political cartoons that do the same. One should not look down on memes if they get the point across. For someone who simply wants to troll me, insult or engage in other sorts of ad hom attacks, then these logical fallacies memes work just fine. And obviously they're working, or he wouldn't keep reacting to them.

In any event, you're preaching to the wrong poster, Steve. Try talking to the one who attempts to turn every conversation, even the ones not directed at him, into an adversarial confrontation. The drama and defensiveness is really not necessary. If someone could explain it to him, and he can stop trolling, I will stop posting referee memes.


----------



## Macfury

Oh good grief. Grow up, man!


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'll say something to someone who actually wants to have an intelligent discussion, no problem. But that discussion need to be respectful going both ways. I have plenty of intelligent discussions with people in other sites, but since John went away as mayor a few years ago, this place has unfortunately lost its openness and general respect for one another. It's sad, really, but it's the truth. You are one of about four people I can actually have a discussion with from time to time, and even then, the discussion is sometimes unnecessarily fraught with tension. It doesn't need to be, Steve.
> 
> I like to discuss ideas, even if I disagree with them, and I don't like feeling defensive all the time. There are great memes out there that encapsulate the point very well, just as there are great political cartoons that do the same. One should not look down on memes if they get the point across. For someone who simply wants to troll me, insult or engage in other sorts of ad hom attacks, then these logical fallacies memes work just fine. And obviously they're working, or he wouldn't keep reacting to them.
> 
> In any event, you're preaching to the wrong poster, Steve. Try talking to the one who attempts to turn every conversation, even the ones not directed at him, into an adversarial confrontation. The drama and defensiveness is really not necessary. If someone could explain it to him, and he can stop trolling, I will stop posting referee memes.


Ok Frank. You do know that it takes two tango. 

I have had many discussions with the people that you are talking about and we have always managed to work things out even after hotted, to say the least, debates. Did you ever stop to consider that if you just calmed down or even took a break for a little bit (like I did last summer due to health concerns) things may get better. 

Personally I don't like memes at all, I never use them. Mostly because I think that my own words express my opinion much more accurately and without all the sarcasm (but we have already discussed sarcasm and puns) that come along with memes.

In general I think memes are kind of tactless, without any real humour or any real intelligence. IMO they are trite, simplistic and generally meant to offend. So although you may call others here "trolls" your constant use of memes is your own form of trolling, whether you want to accept my opinion or not, that is the way I see it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Ok Frank. You do know that it takes two tango.
> 
> 
> 
> I have had many discussions with the people that you are talking about and we have always managed to work things out even after hotted, to say the least, debates. Did you ever stop to consider that if you just calmed down or even took a break for a little bit (like I did last summer due to health concerns) things may get better.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I don't like memes at all, I never use them. Mostly because I think that my own words express my opinion much more accurately and without all the sarcasm (but we have already discussed sarcasm and puns) that come along with memes.
> 
> 
> 
> In general I think memes are kind of tactless, without any real humour or any real intelligence. IMO they are trite, simplistic and generally meant to offend. So although you may call others here "trolls" your constant use of memes is your own form of trolling, whether you want to accept my opinion or not, that is the way I see it.



To each their own. I'm not going to stop using visuals because, first, they can be very effective and succinct, and second, it's 2017. Visual literacy is now a basic. You may want to close your eyes, because here comes the cover of the new New Yorker magazine. I think the illustration is poignant and insightful because it captures both Trump's penchant for golfing (at taxpayers' expense) as well as his







disprespect for the customs and traditions of the office of president. Look if you dare.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Oh good grief. Grow up, man!



Says the king of trolls himself. Why don't you try having an intelligent conversation with me instead of automatically disparaging anything I post? Like Steve says, it takes two to tango. If you have nothing civil to say, perhaps kindly keep it to yourself.


----------



## SINC

Yet another demonstration of a failed approach. Congrats! And sympathies too are required.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> To each their own. I'm not going to stop using visuals because, first, they can be very effective and succinct, and second, it's 2017. Visual literacy is now a basic. You may want to close your eyes, because here comes the cover of the new New Yorker magazine. I think the illustration is poignant and insightful because it captures both Trump's penchant for golfing (at taxpayers' expense) as well as his
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> disprespect for the customs and traditions of the office of president. Look if you dare.


Ike had a two hole putting and chipping green created on the White House lawn back in the mid 50's before his heart attack.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Ike had a two hole putting and chipping green created on the White House lawn back in the mid 50's before his heart attack.



I think this one is more symbolic composite of Trump's frequent trips to his Mar-a-Lago "Southern White House" trips every weekend (at a cost of $3 million apiece to tax payers) while the actual White House is getting destroyed—by himself, ironically. Notice all the broken windows. This guy now has the lowest approval rating of any President in American history at around 35%, less than 100 days into the job. And with the Presidency, and majorities on both the House and the Senate, he still can't get the Bannoncare—oops, Trumpcare bill passed and blames the Dems. I think he will be done in less than a year, and Mike Pence will be no better.


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> I have had many discussions with the people that you are talking about and we have always managed to work things out


An odd thing I found with ehmacers back in the day (pre-10s, ancient history), is that the posts were often far more vitriolic than now, but when meeting in person the few times I did, things went quite well. 

Meetings didn't reduce future vitriol, but confirmed that this is performance to some ehmacers. Being seen to uphold the correct opinions, or to publicly stick it to those with the other opinion. Maybe just keyboard warriors or ****e-distrubers who are genuinely considerate and polite people in person.

My recommendation: meet up. It takes the edge off, even if it does not change the text that gets posted in this odd place.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> An odd thing I found with ehmacers back in the day (pre-10s, ancient history), is that the posts were often far more vitriolic than now, but when meeting in person the few times I did, things went quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> Meetings didn't reduce future vitriol, but confirmed that this is performance to some ehmacers. Being seen to uphold the correct opinions, or to publicly stick it to those with the other opinion. Maybe just keyboard warriors or ****e-distrubers who are genuinely considerate and polite people in person.
> 
> 
> 
> My recommendation: meet up. It takes the edge off, even if it does not change the text that gets posted in this odd place.




This is great idea—if we weren't spread halfway across the country. Next best bet is to have a basic set of expectations of respect that we all adhere to. I know from participation in many other forums, including ones centered in the US, that it is possible. Basically, there are some lines one does not cross if one wishes to have a mature and respectful discussion, particularly with respect to religion and politics. I'm up for it, but only if participating member can likewise "put away the pitchforks."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> To each their own. I'm not going to stop using visuals because, first, they can be very effective and succinct, and second, it's *2017. Visual literacy is now a basic. You may want to close your eyes,* because here comes the cover of the new New Yorker magazine. I think the illustration is poignant and insightful because it captures both Trump's penchant for golfing (at taxpayers' expense) as well as his
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> disprespect for the customs and traditions of the office of president. *Look if you dare*.


Hi Frank, yes it is 2017, so what? Visual literacy came well before the spoken word, you, know, like cave drawings.

If you created those visuals I would be impressed at least to the extent that you took the time to make them. But you didn't and you don't.

I think memes stink and they just make for lazy communication.

The cover of the New Yorker is almost always interesting and thanks for sharing.

I am very visually literate since I have spent basically my whole life in the visual communications field, with a whole lot of other stuff as well...

So I don't need any "schooling"... my eyes are wide open and always have been.

Jesus Christ man you are so condescending all the time even when someone is trying to to talk to you open and honestly.

I have so much more to say but it wouldn't matter to you because you have no respect for anyone or their opinion if they disagree with you in the slightest. 

I don't know what has happened in your life that you have become this Freddie_Biff character but he sure does not bear much resemblance to fjnmusic and maybe that is your point and why you changed your moniker and then tried to add another "false persona" (of which I am guilty of on another site and everyone knows it blah, blah, blah).

Anyway, I wish you all the best but so long as you continue on this path I shall not be talking to you too much because you really do not have too much to say for yourself and being that I have worked at Parliament for 13+ years I am not all that interested in talking points whether they be in words or visual representation.

Peace.


----------



## Macfury

Beej is right. Just because I can't stomach poor ideas, that are poorly supported doesn't mean I wouldn't hold the door open for the person who presents them. However, I can't let those posts go unpunished either.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> An odd thing I found with ehmacers back in the day (pre-10s, ancient history), is that the posts were often far more vitriolic than now, but when meeting in person the few times I did, things went quite well.
> 
> Meetings didn't reduce future vitriol, but confirmed that this is performance to some ehmacers. Being seen to uphold the correct opinions, or to publicly stick it to those with the other opinion. Maybe just keyboard warriors or ****e-distrubers who are genuinely considerate and polite people in person.
> 
> My recommendation: meet up. It takes the edge off, even if it does not change the text that gets posted in this odd place.


Well yes I agree, but being that I am in QC and Freddie_Biff is in AB that isn't going to happen any time soon. But I am far from the person who FB has a hardest time with, maybe he could meet up with FeXL.  beejacon


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Beej is right*. Just because I can't stomach poor ideas, that are poorly supported doesn't mean I wouldn't hold the door open for the person who presents them*. However, I can't let those posts go unpunished either.


I don't know where I suggested otherwise.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> I don't know where I suggested otherwise.


You didn't!


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> being that I am in QC and Freddie_Biff is in AB that isn't going to happen any time soon.


Look for the opportunity (said to all; I'm not admonishing you). I don't recall making a special trip for a meet up, but I do recall thinking of how an unrelated trip could be appended,with a bit of effort. 

Not front of mind for you right now, but circumstances change. I met seven or more ehmacers (I think), but that was mostly circumstance plus a little effort. Only a few were because I lived in the same city. That said, I have traveled a lot within Canada.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Hi Frank, yes it is 2017, so what? Visual literacy came well before the spoken word, you, know, like cave drawings.
> 
> 
> 
> If you created those visuals I would be impressed at least to the extent that you took the time to make them. But you didn't and you don't.
> 
> 
> 
> I think memes stink and they just make for lazy communication.
> 
> 
> 
> The cover of the New Yorker is almost always interesting and thanks for sharing.
> 
> 
> 
> I am very visually literate since I have spent basically my whole life in the visual communications field, with a whole lot of other stuff as well...
> 
> 
> 
> So I don't need any "schooling"... my eyes are wide open and always have been.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ man you are so condescending all the time even when someone is trying to to talk to you open and honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> I have so much more to say but it wouldn't matter to you because you have no respect for anyone or their opinion if they disagree with you in the slightest.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what has happened in your life that you have become this Freddie_Biff character but he sure does not bear much resemblance to fjnmusic and maybe that is your point and why you changed your moniker and then tried to add another "false persona" (of which I am guilty of on another site and everyone knows it blah, blah, blah).
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I wish you all the best but so long as you continue on this path I shall not be talking to you too much because you really do not have too much to say for yourself and being that I have worked at Parliament for 13+ years I am not all that interested in talking points whether they be in words or visual representation.
> 
> 
> 
> Peace.




Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. I don't believe I have anything to apologize for here, and if you choose not to interact with me, that's your choice. 

The armchair psychoanalaysis is way off the mark and not appropriate, unless you want me to do the same for you. Even then, we would both be stepping over the line. I find THAT to be condescending, to be honest, and it is not really your business in any event. 

I don't pour out my innermost secrets to someone who pretends to be a friend. If you don't know me, that's fine. I never asked for your help. But I do wish you'd watch a little closer for the bear-baiting that goes on here, because it really is quite childish. If you don't see it, well I guess that's not my problem. Ignorance is bliss. Have a nice life.


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> maybe he could meet up with FeXL


I volunteer to mediate and would sacrifice one day on the weekend for that. Maybe I'm just a voyeur. beejacon

They buy the beer.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> I volunteer to mediate and would sacrifice one day on the weekend for that. Maybe I'm just a voyeur. beejacon
> 
> 
> 
> They buy the beer.



Funny. But I have absolutely zero interest in meeting up with FeXL. If he could learn to be more civil online, that would be a HUUUGE accomplishment, but like Dr. Phil says, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. I am not holding my breath. If I find someone antagonistic in a cyber-world, why on earth would I want more of that in the real world? I have more than enough friends. If there are a few enemies out there, so be it. They can make a bigger effort if they want to get on my good side.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Beej is right. Just because I can't stomach poor ideas, that are poorly supported doesn't mean I wouldn't hold the door open for the person who presents them. However, I can't let those posts go unpunished either.



"Unpunished." Interesting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Beej

*Meetings: could they be a thing?*

For anyone interested in digging through the history, some perspective may help.

Look up some of the barn burners ArtistSeries and I got into. There's 2017 ugly, and then there's older ehmac. We met and, from my perspective, had a great time. That did not prevent future fires, but it did change the interpretation. At least for me.

The meeting was not some carefully set up event...I had a business trip and it seemed like a good opportunity. AS agreed, so we met.

From lurking over the years, this option seems to be dead. I view that as importing U.S. politics into Canada. Maybe a controversial opinion, but there it is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> For anyone interested in digging through the history, some perspective may help.
> 
> Look up some of the barn burners ArtistSeries and I got into. There's 2017 ugly, and then there's older ehmac. We met and, from my perspective, had a great time. That did not prevent future fires, but it did change the interpretation. At least for me.
> 
> The meeting was not some carefully set up event...I had a business trip and it seemed like a good opportunity. AS agreed, so we met.
> 
> From lurking over the years, this option seems to be dead. I view that as importing U.S. politics into Canada. Maybe a controversial opinion, but there it is.


I think you've got a point there, Beej. It's a little different when you have to look your "enemy" in the eye. Skype or FaceTime is a possibility, but not one I wish to explore. If people could on the whole just be more civil, myself included, then that would go a long way toward increasing the peace. 

However, I also know from my time with labor relations that once one or both parties become "entrenched" in their positions, it is nearly impossible to find any agreement. This often happens between, say, left wing and right wing posters. We want to pigeon-hole the other side into certain statements or points of view and not allow them any breathing room to modify their beliefs. Put-down labels like "progs," "snowflakes," and "alt-righters" don't help the dialogue much either. But I tell you, unless all who are part of the problem here (and who recognize that there IS a problem here) are willing to drop the shields and talk about it, we aren't going to come to much of a resolution.

The defensiveness that Steve senses from me comes from years of defensiveness o0n these boards, and for what it's worth, Steve, I changed my name because the program wouldn't let me use the old one any longer, just like Tilt2. Nothing personal, and certainly no shift in my values. I believe in communication, and have endured much longer than those who have left this site would have. So they've told me.


----------



## Macfury

I don't agree. My viewpoint has shifted on various issues based on cogent arguments.

Again, FB, the problem people have with your posts is that they make outrageous claims without any effort to back them up. If you actually put a little effort into them, maybe you could convince someone of something.

Take your complaint that Notley's predecessors should have diversified the economy. I point out that the economy has diversified significantly under previous governments. You say nothing. I ask you what more they could have done to make you happy about diversification. You say nothing. I ask you what Notley is doing to diversify. You say nothing. I ask you how her diversification plans are going. You say nothing. I ask you which areas Notley is diversifying the economy into. You say she has plan but you don't have any details.

I could hardly be accused of having an "entrenched" opinion on diversification when I'm the only one bringing information to the table.





Freddie_Biff said:


> I think you've got a point there, Beej. It's a little different when you have to look your "enemy" in the eye. Skype or FaceTime is a possibility, but not one I wish to explore. If people could on the whole just be more civil, myself included, then that would go a long way toward increasing the peace.
> 
> However, I also know from my time with labor relations that once one or both parties become "entrenched" in their positions, it is nearly impossible to find any agreement. This often happens between, say, left wing and right wing posters. We want to pigeon-hole the other side into certain statements or points of view and not allow them any breathing room to modify their beliefs. Put-down labels like "progs," "snowflakes," and "alt-righters" don't help the dialogue much either. But I tell you, unless all who are part of the problem here (and who recognize that there IS a problem here) are willing to drop the shields and talk about it, we aren't going to come to much of a resolution.
> 
> The defensiveness that Steve senses from me comes from years of defensiveness o0n these boards, and for what it's worth, Steve, I changed my name because the program wouldn't let me use the old one any longer, just like Tilt2. Nothing personal, and certainly no shift in my values. I believe in communication, and have endured much longer than those who have left this site would have. So they've told me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't agree. My viewpoint has shifted on various issues based on cogent arguments.
> 
> Again, FB, the problem people have with your posts is that they make outrageous claims without any effort to back them up. If you actually put a little effort into them, maybe you could convince someone of something.
> 
> Take your complaint that Notley's predecessors should have diversified the economy. I point out that the economy has diversified significantly under previous governments. You say nothing. I ask you what more they could have done to make you happy about diversification. You say nothing. I ask you what Notley is doing to diversify. You say nothing. I ask you how her diversification plans are going. You say nothing. I ask you which areas Notley is diversifying the economy into. You say she has plan but you don't have any details.
> 
> I could hardly be accused of having an "entrenched" opinion on diversification when I'm the only one bringing information to the table.


The thing is, Joe or Charlie or whatever your actual name is, is that I just don't care enough to get into a deep and long-winded discussion about the finer details and you are not content with that or to just let it go. You seem to treat everyone of the things I post here as requiring proof and validation or you will mock them, and I really don't have the time or the interest, quite frankly. Sometimes I like to stir the pot a little, just for fun. It doesn't really matter whether I have proven my case to your satisfaction, because in the big picture, nobody really gives a ****e and I have other things I could be doing, things that pay me an income. I don't get into the American historical arguments between you and Marc because I don't know enough about American history, nor do I care to really. In terms of which I vote or whose party I support, I don't believe I am required to justify my choices to you or to anybody. If we could just agree to disagree, about a great many things, it would probably be a great timesaver

I do thank you for steering me toward an English-subtitled version of "Juan of the Dead" a few years back; that was kind of you. Honestly, I really have no desire to be in a constant antagonistic state. It's not my natural way of being. If you can try not to goad me, I will lay off the referee memes. If not, well there's that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The number of days it took former Presidents to tank to 35% in approval rating.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Something else to consider with respect to that stymied travel ban.


----------



## Macfury

The proper comparison would be between number of Muslims and number of Christians--since Trump is a Christian. Another badly conceived meme.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The proper comparison would be between number of Muslims and number of Christians--since Trump is a Christian. Another badly conceived meme.



??

The comparison has to do with patriotism, not between Christias and Muslims, but between Muslim service people and whether anyone in Trump's family has ever served their country in the military. In any event, Trump is about as much of a Christian as Orange is an offshoot of the colour Blue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well this is exciting! Trump finally decided to go au natural with his head—and it doesn't even look that bad!


----------



## Macfury

So the Muslims in the military service are devout? They all enlisted because they were patriotic? Was Barack Obama less patriotic than 4,000 Muslims because he never served in the military?

The meme is a mess.

Regarding Trump's approval rating, Rasmussen shows him much higher. However, I doubt that any president could face the negative onslaught of the media at this pitch and show better numbers. For Obama, the mainstream media was his spirit squad. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> ??
> 
> The comparison has to do with patriotism, not between Christias and Muslims, but between Muslim service people and whether anyone in Trump's family has ever served their country in the military. In any event, Trump is about as much of a Christian as Orange is an offshoot of the colour Blue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Look at it from my perspective. You're posting ridiculous unsubstantiated stuff and now you're asking for a free pass to post anything you care to, unchallenged. What you offer in return is that you won't pollute the experience of every EhMac member by posting giant sized non sequiturs featuring photographs of NFL referees.

It's a poor deal. You think you're being victimized, but it just so happens that you're the *only *regular poster here who declines to support his contentions. That's also why FeXL responds. 

You'll just have to live with having your contentions challenged in the marketplace of ideas. If your only response is to post gigantic pictures, so be it.





Freddie_Biff said:


> The thing is, Joe or Charlie or whatever your actual name is, is that I just don't care enough to get into a deep and long-winded discussion about the finer details and you are not content with that or to just let it go. You seem to treat everyone of the things I post here as requiring proof and validation or you will mock them, and I really don't have the time or the interest, quite frankly. Sometimes I like to stir the pot a little, just for fun. It doesn't really matter whether I have proven my case to your satisfaction, because in the big picture, nobody really gives a ****e and I have other things I could be doing, things that pay me an income. I don't get into the American historical arguments between you and Marc because I don't know enough about American history, nor do I care to really. In terms of which I vote or whose party I support, I don't believe I am required to justify my choices to you or to anybody. If we could just agree to disagree, about a great many things, it would probably be a great timesaver
> 
> I do thank you for steering me toward an English-subtitled version of "Juan of the Dead" a few years back; that was kind of you. Honestly, I really have no desire to be in a constant antagonistic state. It's not my natural way of being. If you can try not to goad me, I will lay off the referee memes. If not, well there's that.


----------



## Macfury

Russian April Fool's joke:



> "You have reached the Russian embassy, your call is very important to us.
> To arrange a call from a Russian diplomat to your political opponent, press 1.
> To use the services of Russian hackers press 2.
> To request election interference, press 3 and wait until the next election campaign."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Russian April Fool's joke:


XX)

Sadly, not all that funny. We shall see what Flynn has to say. My bet is that he has not much to add to what is already known, will be denied immunity, and will not be sent to jail. Just my initial guess. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> XX)
> 
> Sadly, not all that funny. We shall see what Flynn has to say. My bet is that he has not much to add to what is already known, will be denied immunity, and will not be sent to jail. Just my initial guess. We shall see.


Dr. G, not trying to be smart ass here, but do we really care? I am sure that all countries have had influence in other government's business. Lord knows England, the U.S. France, the list goes on. Is the only real crime here that one was potentially caught?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Look at it from my perspective. You're posting ridiculous unsubstantiated stuff and now you're asking for a free pass to post anything you care to, unchallenged. What you offer in return is that you won't pollute the experience of every EhMac member by posting giant sized non sequiturs featuring photographs of NFL referees.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a poor deal. You think you're being victimized, but it just so happens that you're the *only *regular poster here who declines to support his contentions. That's also why FeXL responds.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll just have to live with having your contentions challenged in the marketplace of ideas. If your only response is to post gigantic pictures, so be it.



Macfury, you have no interest in being civil. Admit it. I have tried, but if you can't even attempt to be nice, then I'm afraid you're really not worth the trouble. I support every single thing I post; you just don't like my style. Fine. Like I say, I've tried being nice to you, but what I get in return is yet another slap in the face. You don't want to get along, and the only thing you're interested in doing is criticizing. You're not my problem any longer. 

Also, you apparently don't know what a non-sequitur is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So the Muslims in the military service are devout? They all enlisted because they were patriotic? Was Barack Obama less patriotic than 4,000 Muslims because he never served in the military?
> 
> 
> 
> The meme is a mess.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Trump's approval rating, Rasmussen shows him much higher. However, I doubt that any president could face the negative onslaught of the media at this pitch and show better numbers. For Obama, the mainstream media was his spirit squad.



Very weak analysis. And apparently you still don't understand the meme (despite the fact that it was a pretty easy one). Trump is a hypocrite for banning and deporting Muslims because he thinks they're unpatriotic. Honestly, at your age, you shoudn't need everything spelled out for you. The meme is a success.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Russian April Fool's joke:



It's not an April Fool's joke if you TELL people it's an April Fool's joke. It's all about being punked.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Very weak analysis. And apparently you still don't understand the meme (despite the fact that it was a pretty easy one). Trump is a hypocrite for banning and deporting Muslims because he thinks they're unpatriotic. Honestly, at your age, you shoudn't need everything spelled out for you. The meme is a success.


When did he say Muslims were unpatriotic? How many Muslims did he deport? When did he institute a ban against Muslims?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> XX)
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, not all that funny. We shall see what Flynn has to say. My bet is that he has not much to add to what is already known, will be denied immunity, and will not be sent to jail. Just my initial guess. We shall see.



If he is subpoena'ed, wouldn't he be required to tell what he knows regardless? And if he perjures himself, then he's screwed anyway. Nobody plea bargains through the media, especially not if they have real dirt. The fact that Trump himself advised Flynn to seek immunity makes me think Trump/Bannon are behind this whole charade anyway. If there's dirt to find, there are many other ways of finding it. Flynn is not the star witness here. Trump's been watching too much TV. 

Is he golfing again this weekend, I wonder? Going for ten straight weekends in a row? Make it an even $30 million for taxpayers?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> When did he say Muslims were unpatriotic? How many Muslims did he deport? When did he institute a ban against Muslims?



Good lord. Read the news, Joe, and read between the lines while you're at it. The travel ban was designed to punish Muslims, and countries with majority Muslim populations, even nine of those countries poses a threat to the US. Remember that word, "obtuse"? It's when one is deliberately trying to pretend they don't understand something. Doesn't sound like anyone we know, does it?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, all you offer in the name of civility is a demand that nobody challenges your posts. That's not an offer at all! You've said you find it tiring and time consuming to substantiate your views. People such as FeXL and I believe that if it's worth posting in front of the EhMac community, it's worth defending.

It's nothing personal. If you continue to post unsubstantiated claims and thought-free memes expect a response (I would do the same for any EhMac member). Then ignore the response that crushes your contention. At that point it ceases to be a conversation and you're off the hook. 

Sounds like a great arrangement to me!





Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury, you have no interest in being civil. Admit it. I have tried, but if you can't even attempt to be nice, then I'm afraid you're really not worth the trouble. I support every single thing I post; you just don't like my style. Fine. Like I say, I've tried being nice to you, but what I get in return is yet another slap in the face. You don't want to get along, and the only thing you're interested in doing is criticizing. You're not my problem any longer.
> 
> Also, you apparently don't know what a non-sequitur is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, all you offer in the name of civility is a demand that nobody challenges your posts. That's not an offer at all! You've said you find it tiring and time consuming to substantiate your views. People such as FeXL and I believe that if it's worth posting in front of the EhMac community, it's worth defending.
> 
> 
> 
> It's nothing personal. If you continue to post unsubstantiated claims and thought-free memes expect a response (I would do the same for any EhMac member). Then ignore the response that crushes your contention. At that point it ceases to be a conversation and you're off the hook.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a great arrangement to me!



It's completely personal, Macfury. Like a moth to a flame. You need your scapegoat. You are incapable of just letting someone have an opinion that differs from yours. I don't ask you to defend every word you say, because frankly, I'm not really that interested, but if I don't keep on and on explaining my contention, you think I'm ignoring you. You're like the kid in school who has no friends so he insults anyone that talks to him because negative attention is better than no attention. Sorry buddy, but that's the truth.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good lord. Read the news, Joe, and read between the lines while you're at it. The travel ban was designed to punish Muslims, and countries with majority Muslim populations, even nine of those countries poses a threat to the US. Remember that word, "obtuse"? It's when one is deliberately trying to pretend they don't understand something. Doesn't sound like anyone we know, does it?


The ban targets countries identified by the Obama administration as countries of concern for travelers. It does not exempt people of any religion in those countries. The current ban covers Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Iran--all countries identified by Obama as associated with terror threats. If Trump wanted to ban larger numbers of Muslims he could have done a far more thorough job by selecting different countries. Just four of them: Indonesia, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan would have temporarily barred entry to half the world's Muslim population.


----------



## Macfury

You don't get it. It's nothing personal--it's your unsubstantiated contentions that attract my attention. I don't mind if you ignore me. When you're "not interested" it suits me fine! If you never responded to me again, it would probably take some time for me to notice. Try it!



> Freddie_Biff;2453602]It's completely personal, Macfury. Like a moth to a flame. You need your scapegoat. You are incapable of just letting someone have an opinion that differs from yours. I don't ask you to defend every word you say, because frankly, I'm not really that interested, but if I don't keep on and on explaining my contention, you think I'm ignoring you. You're like the kid in school who has no friends so he insults anyone that talks to him because negative attention is better than no attention. Sorry buddy, but that's the truth.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The ban targets countries identified by the Obama administration as countries of concern for travelers. It does not exempt people of any religion in those countries. The current ban covers Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Iran--all countries identified by Obama as associated with terror threats. If Trump wanted to ban larger numbers of Muslims he could have done a far more thorough job by selecting different countries. Just four of them: Indonesia, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan would have temporarily barred entry to half the world's Muslim population.



And Saudi Arabia. Gee, I wonder why they never get banned, even though 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from there, not to mention Osama Bin Laden himself. 

You repeat the Trump administration's talking points, but again there is no rationale for banning people from these countries, even temporarily. You appear to buy into the Trump/Bannon propaganda without any reservation. Curious. Oh, and Obama is not President anymore. The new guy has to make his own decisions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't get it. It's nothing personal--it's your unsubstantiated contentions that attract my attention. I don't mind if you ignore me. When you're "not interested" it suits me fine! If you never responded to me again, it would probably take some time for me to notice. Try it!



Just not sure what it is that made you self-appointed gatekeeper for the ten or so people that ever post here. I thought you didn't believe in moderators, yet here you are. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*Uh... what the heck was that....?*

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtRcVerB8jE[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Uh... what the heck was that....?*
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtRcVerB8jE[/ame]



That's what happens when someone takes their bat and ball and goes home.


----------



## Macfury

Existing intelligence reports must still be used until new intelligence is gathered. I don; know why Obama left Saudi Arabia off the list.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And Saudi Arabia. Gee, I wonder why they never get banned, even though 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from there, not to mention Osama Bin Laden himself.
> 
> You repeat the Trump administration's talking points, but again there is no rationale for banning people from these countries, even temporarily. You appear to buy into the Trump/Bannon propaganda without any reservation. Curious. Oh, and Obama is not President anymore. The new guy has to make his own decisions.


----------



## Macfury

No gatekeeping here. I encourage you to post whatever you think! I would never dream of deleting those posts, even if I had the power to do it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just not sure what it is that made you self-appointed gatekeeper for the ten or so people that ever post here. I thought you didn't believe in moderators, yet here you are.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Existing intelligence reports must still be used until new intelligence is gathered. I don; know why Obama left Saudi Arabia off the list.



Probably the same reason Bush made sure to fly all remaining Bin Ladens out of the country on 9/11 while all other non-military aircraft were grounded. They would be targets.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No gatekeeping here. I encourage you to post whatever you think! I would never dream of deleting those posts, even if I had the power to do it.



Now there's backhanded compliment. But I still find you act as overseer and grand general moderator but virtue of the fact that you DO comment on everything, or damn near everything I post. I'm not against moderators, but I prefer the kind with whom I share some common ideas about etiquette and protocol.


----------



## Macfury

I've seen MacDiscussions--no thanks!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not against moderators, but I prefer the kind with whom I share some common ideas about etiquette and protocol.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've seen MacDiscussions--no thanks!



I tend to hang around on Straight Dope
and the Walking Dead forums—both have political threads that are considerably less partisan than what I see here. It's pretty silly really. There's nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. It's not necessary to point out why the other guy is wrong.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well this should be interesting. That Obama is much more clever than his successor. 












> President Obama’s secret preservation of Russia evidence set an obstruction trap for Donald Trump
> 
> 
> When attempting to decipher the actions of President Barack Obama, I’ve learned to begin with the premise that he’s smarter than I am. Once again, that’s proven to be the case. Not only did he and his team secretly preserve all the Trump-Russia evidence and deliver it to the Senate Intelligence Committee before he left office, he set a trap whereby Donald Trump and his team may have already been nailed for obstruction.
> 
> Let’s backtrack a bit. About six weeks ago, the Senate Intel Committee instructed Donald Trump and his White House not to destroy any evidence or documents pertinent to the Russia scandal (Business Insider). My gut told me that they were setting a trap for him. I ran it past someone with prosecutorial experience, and sure enough, my hunch was right. You typically tell someone not to destroy the evidence once you already have copies of the evidence, in the hope that you can send them into a panic whereby they do destroy that evidence, and then you’ve got them nailed for obstruction of justice right out of the gate. If what they turn over is less than what you have, there’s proof that they destroyed or scuttled some of the evidence.
> 
> 
> And so this told me that, one way or another, the Senate Intel Committee already had its hands on all of the Trump-Russia documents from the White House. And now today we come to find out that the committee already had that evidence because President Obama and his White House secretly gave copies to every member before he left office (source: NBC News). And by making sure it didn’t come out publicly at the time, he helped set up an obstruction trap for Trump.
> 
> 
> If anyone in Trump’s White House has destroyed any evidence in since they were warned not to, then the evidence isn’t really gone, but they’re now guilty of a crime and can be leveraged into giving up a bigger fish. And it’ll be because President Obama – indeed smarter than I am – set the trap months ago.


http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion...et-an-obstruction-trap-for-donald-trump/2135/


----------



## Macfury

So what was in those documents that smart Obama cleverly preserved?


----------



## CubaMark

*Further to the video I posted above*:

Donald Trump has stormed out of an executive order signing ceremony without signing the orders* after being questioned over Michael Flynn and Russia*.

Exactly a week after his vow to “repeal and replace” Obamacare imploded in Congress, the President told assembled reporters he was going to “get down to some serious business”.

The two executive orders, sitting on his desk in the Oval Office, aimed to put his drive for American trade and manufacturing jobs back at the top of the agenda, ordering a study into the cause of US trade deficits and a crackdown on import duty evasion.

“We're going to investigate all trade abuses, and, based on those findings, we will take necessary and lawful action to end those many abuses,” Mr Trump said, before handing over to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and National Trade Council Director Peter Navarro.

But after Mike Pence hailed a “great day for the American economy” in a planned speech, Mr Trump took back the podium to cut the event short.

“Thank you everybody, you’re going to see some very, very strong results very, very quickly – thank you very much,” he said, before swiftly walking towards the door.

Mr Pence gave him a passing tap on the arm as other attendees at the signing ceremony appeared confused, with Mr Trump flashing a thumbs up before leaving the Oval Office.
(Independent UK)​
*And then there's this:*

*Lawyer explains why Michael Flynn's immunity request changes everything*

Michael Flynn’s unusual immunity request suggests the Trump administration has been involved in a "criminal conspiracy", according to a US legal commentator.

The former national security adviser, who was forced to step down for failing to disclose the extent of his meetings with Russian diplomats, has agreed to co-operate with investigations into links between Russia and the Trump administration.

Mr Flynn will testify for the Senate and House Intelligence Committees’ investigation into Russia links and alleged interference in the 2016 election - but only if he is granted immunity from prosecution.

“General Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it”, said his lawyer in a statement released Thursday.

Seth Abramson, a former attorney turned academic and journalist, said that a number of aspects of Mr Flynn’s request were “bizarre”.

Immunity is generally granted in secret deals between attorneys and investigators, so it it is unusual Mr Flynn’s lawyers have made their request so publicly.

“If he really had some very specific information about Trump campaign collusion with the Russians ... there’s no way a lawyer would try to sell that information for immunity by way of release of a statement,” law professor Ronald Wright told Vox.​
(Independent UK)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So what was in those documents that smart Obama cleverly preserved?



Why don't you read up and find out? Let us know what you discover. If I read about more details, or anyone else, we could all do the same.


----------



## Macfury

There has been no evidence presented--that's why you can't easily find it.

But if Obama was so smart--according to your post--why didn't he expose trump's Russian connections before Trump took out Hillary? It would have been easier to handle if Hillary had won.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why don't you read up and find out? Let us know what you discover. If I read about more details, or anyone else, we could all do the same.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There has been no evidence presented--that's why you can't easily find it.
> 
> 
> 
> But if Obama was so smart--according to your post--why didn't he expose trump's Russian connections before Trump took out Hillary? It would have been easier to handle if Hillary had won.



Perhaps there are procedures and protocols in place to make sure that someone doesn't go off half-cocked and compromise the investigation. You know, like Tweeting while ****ting at three in the morning. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps there are procedures and protocols in place to make sure that someone doesn't go off half-cocked and compromise the investigation. You know, like Tweeting while ****ting at three in the morning.


:lmao: :clap: :lmao: :clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

"You got played." An interesting op ed piece by Maureen Dowd about Donald Trump. It's a good read. 



> Donald, This I Will Tell You
> 
> March 25, 2017
> Op-Ed Columnist
> 
> Maureen Dowd
> WASHINGTON — Dear Donald,
> 
> We’ve known each other a long time, so I think I can be blunt.
> 
> You know how you said at campaign rallies that you did not like being identified as a politician?
> 
> Don’t worry. No one will ever mistake you for a politician.
> 
> After this past week, they won’t even mistake you for a top-notch negotiator.
> 
> I was born here. The first image in my memory bank is the Capitol, all lit up at night. And my primary observation about Washington is this: Unless you’re careful, you end up turning into what you started out scorning.
> 
> And you, Donald, are getting a reputation as a sucker. And worse, a sucker who is a tool of the D.C. establishment.
> 
> Your whole campaign was mocking your rivals and the D.C. elite, jawing about how Americans had turned into losers, with our bad deals and open borders and the Obamacare “disaster.”
> 
> And you were going to fly in on your gilded plane and fix all that in a snap.
> 
> You mused that a good role model would be Ronald Reagan. As you saw it, Reagan was a big, good-looking guy with a famous pompadour; he had also been a Democrat and an entertainer. But Reagan had one key quality that you don’t have: He knew what he didn’t know.
> 
> You both resembled Macy’s Thanksgiving Day balloons, floating above the nitty-gritty and focusing on a few big thoughts. But President Reagan was confident enough to accept that he needed experts below, deftly maneuvering the strings.
> 
> You’re just careering around on your own, crashing into buildings and losing altitude, growling at the cameras and spewing nasty conspiracy theories, instead of offering a sunny smile, bipartisanship, optimism and professionalism.
> 
> You promised to get the best people around you in the White House, the best of the best. In fact, “best” is one of your favorite words.
> 
> Instead, you dragged that motley skeleton crew into the White House and let them create a feuding, leaking, belligerent, conspiratorial, sycophantic atmosphere. Instead of a smooth, classy operator like James Baker, you have a Manichaean anarchist in Steve Bannon.
> 
> You knew the Republicans were full of hot air. They haven’t had to pass anything in a long time, and they have no aptitude for governing. To paraphrase an old Barney Frank line, asking the Republicans to govern is like asking Frank to judge the Miss America contest — “If your heart’s not in it, you don’t do a very good job.”
> 
> You knew that Paul Ryan’s vaunted reputation as a policy wonk was fake news. Republicans have been running on repealing and replacing Obamacare for years and they never even bothered to come up with a valid alternative.
> 
> 
> And neither did you, despite all your promises to replace Obamacare with “something terrific” because you wanted everyone to be covered.
> 
> Instead, you sold the D.O.A. bill the Irish undertaker gave you as though it were a luxury condo, ignoring the fact that it was a cruel flimflam, a huge tax cut for the rich disguised as a health care bill. You were so concerned with the “win” that you forgot your “forgotten” Americans, the older, poorer people in rural areas who would be hurt by the bill.
> 
> As The Times’s chief Washington correspondent Carl Hulse put it, the G.O.P. falls into clover with a lock on the White House and both houses of Congress, and what’s the first thing it does? Slip on a banana peel. Incompetence Inc.
> 
> “They tried to sweeten the deal at the end by offering a more expensive bill with fewer health benefits, but alas, it wasn’t enough!” former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau slyly tweeted.
> 
> Despite the best efforts of Bannon to act as though the whole fiasco was a clever way to bury Ryan — a man he disdains as “the embodiment of the ‘globalist-corporatist’ Republican elite,” as Gabriel Sherman put it in New York magazine — it won’t work.
> 
> And you can jump on the phone with The Times’s Maggie Haberman and The Washington Post’s Robert Costa — ignoring that you’ve labeled them the “fake media” — and act like you’re in control. You can say that people should have waited for “Phase 2” and “Phase 3” — whatever they would have been — and that Obamacare is going to explode and that the Democrats are going to get the blame. But it doesn’t work that way. You own it now.
> 
> You’re all about flashy marketing so you didn’t notice that the bill was junk, so lame that even Republicans skittered away.
> 
> You were humiliated right out of the chute by the establishment guys who hooked you into their agenda — a massive transfer of wealth to rich people — and drew you away from your own.
> 
> You sold yourself as the businessman who could shake things up and make Washington work again. Instead, you got worked over by the Republican leadership and the business community, who set you up to do their bidding.
> 
> That’s why they’re putting up with all your craziness about Russia and wiretapping and unending lies and rattling our allies.
> 
> They’re counting on you being a delusional dupe who didn’t even know what was in the bill because you’re sitting around in a bathrobe getting your information from wackadoodles on Fox News and then, as The Post reported, peppering aides with the query, “Is this really a good bill?”
> 
> You got played.
> 
> It took W. years to smash everything. You’re way ahead of schedule.
> 
> And I can say you’re doing badly, because I’m a columnist, and you’re not. Say hello to everybody, O.K.?
> 
> Sincerely, Maureen


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/...=NYTGCanadaNews&referer=http://m.facebook.com


----------



## Dr.G.

An excellent article.

"The United States is not a perfect country, and it has a great distance to go before it fully achieves its goals of liberty and equality. But preserving what works and defending the rules and values on which democracy depends are a shared responsibility. Everybody has a role to play in this drama."

Our Dishonest President - Los Angeles Times


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> An excellent article.
> 
> 
> 
> "The United States is not a perfect country, and it has a great distance to go before it fully achieves its goals of liberty and equality. But preserving what works and defending the rules and values on which democracy depends are a shared responsibility. Everybody has a role to play in this drama."
> 
> 
> 
> Our Dishonest President - Los Angeles Times



Tell me, Marc: do you think President Trump really has what it takes to pull the country together as one nation under God at this point? Are liberty and equality even anywhere on his radar? Or perhaps it would be better stated, anywhere on the radar of his handlers? Because I just don't see it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Tell me, Marc: do you think President Trump really has what it takes to pull the country together as one nation under God at this point? Are liberty and equality even anywhere on his radar? Or perhaps it would be better stated, anywhere on the radar of his handlers? Because I just don't see it.


Sadly, I would have to agree with you here Frank. I hoped that Trump would "change his tune", but I was truly mistaken. I would be livid if I was still living in the US, paying taxes, and watching programs that I support being cut to pay for "The Wall". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Trump will host Xi at his exclusive Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach on April 6 and 7, but any suggestion of an outing to the nearby Trump-owned golf courses is likely to land in the rough. 

Xi, an avid soccer fan, isn't known to be a golfer -- and he's been waging a war on the sport in his country. 

Since he came to power nearly five years ago, Xi's government has shut down scores of golf courses across China and effectively banned the 88 million members of the ruling Communist Party from playing."

Why Trump's golf diplomacy won't work with China's Xi Jinping - CNNPolitics.com


At least Pres. Nixon had "ping pong diplomacy" working for him at the height of his presidency.


----------



## Macfury

The promise of equality was never intended to engineer equality of outcome. And liberty can never be achieved as long as the government continues picking the pockets of taxpayers.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, I would have to agree with you here Frank. I hoped that Trump would "change his tune", but I was truly mistaken. I would be livid if I was still living in the US, paying taxes, and watching programs that I support being cut to pay for "The Wall". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


It is a public works project following the model of the great FDR!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It is a public works project following the model of the great FDR!


Like the Grand Coulee Dam and the TVA?


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump nixes opening day tradition - CNN Video

No dog in the White House and now no first pitch thrown out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Like the Hoover Dam and the TVA?


Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!


----------



## Macfury

We can only hope that he pardons the Whitehouse turkey!



Dr.G. said:


> Trump nixes opening day tradition - CNN Video
> 
> No dog in the White House and now no first pitch thrown out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, I would have to agree with you here Frank. I hoped that Trump would "change his tune", but I was truly mistaken. I would be livid if I was still living in the US, paying taxes, and watching programs that I support being cut to pay for "The Wall". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



No doubt. Unless the US wants to cut off both its view and its access to the Rio Grande, for that matter, the wall would have to be built on the Mexican side, a prospect the Mexicans are not too thrilled about it. Really, the man is an echo chamber of huge empty promises that cannot be followed up on in any real world, and yet his followers worship like a cult leader. And he is costing them $3 million a week to play golf at his own course on weekends. What a bargain.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!


Macfury, I knew that you were a closet New Dealer. Yes!!!!!!!!!! Rather than just handouts from the federal government, FDR knew that men and women needed real work to earn real wages. Yes, there were programs to help those in desperate need with food, housing, clothing and shelter. However, the various work projects that employed millions of Americans helped to restore their dignity.

Welcome to the Club. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


>


Well that was pretty bad, not even remotely true or funny... unless you have a certain penchant to see that as funny or true.


----------



## Macfury

Give the millennials a free MP3 and they'd be on board! They don't care at all about privacy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Not funny so much as sobering. That is what happens when government downplays the importance of individual liberties.


----------



## SINC

Oh my, what's this? Surely not Obama's right hand gal?

Susan Rice ordered unmasking of Trump team in intel: Bloomberg View report - Washington Times


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Oh my, what's this? Surely not Obama's right hand gal?
> 
> Susan Rice ordered unmasking of Trump team in intel: Bloomberg View report - Washington Times


Yep, looks like Trump team surveillance and illegal leaking of information was policy at the Obama White House. Trump was right and he knew it from the start.

Meanwhile the "Russian hacking of the election" story is presenting no evidence whatsoever.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Oh my, what's this? Surely not Obama's right hand gal?
> 
> Susan Rice ordered unmasking of Trump team in intel: Bloomberg View report - Washington Times


I remember her oxymoronic statements about Eritrean attempts to tax its citizens abroad. Very tacky given that was about the time the US was mercilessly starting its attempts to drain bank accounts of its own citizens abroad. Even when the targets had zero US tax liabilities. Sieg Heil FATCA!

She's been on my $#!t list ever since.


----------



## CubaMark

_Does the Buffoon-in-Chief not realize that the White House has direct lines to the FBI Director? _

*Donald Trump tweets FBI to tell them about Fox News story*

Donald Trump has apparently used Twitter to alert the FBI to allegations of "electronic surveillance" against him.

The President cited reports by Fox News suggesting he and "people close to" him had been monitored before his nomination as Republican candidate, and tagged @FBI.

The agency's Twitter bio asks users of the social network to submit tips through a dedicated website, tips.fbi.gov.

Mr Trump said: 


> "Such amazing reporting on unmasking and the crooked scheme against us by @foxandfriends. 'Spied on before nomination.' The real story.





> "[email protected] from multiple sources: 'There was electronic surveillance of Trump, and people close to Trump. This is unprecedented.' @FBI".


(Independent UK)​


----------



## eMacMan

Reasonably balanced report of the latest Susan Rice debacle.
The Susan Rice 'Unmasking' Scoop: We Don't Know Enough To Be Outraged (Yet) | National Review

This last sentence is not indicative of stories tone, but does align with my own opinion of the woman.



> One thing, however, is clear – in the aftermath of her own grotesque falsehoods, Susan Rice has earned every ounce of the suspicion she now receives.


----------



## Macfury

I think buffoons might fail to see why Trump is doing this publicly.



CubaMark said:


> _Does the Buffoon-in-Chief not realize that the White House has direct lines to the FBI Director? _
> 
> *Donald Trump tweets FBI to tell them about Fox News story*
> 
> Donald Trump has apparently used Twitter to alert the FBI to allegations of "electronic surveillance" against him.
> 
> The President cited reports by Fox News suggesting he and "people close to" him had been monitored before his nomination as Republican candidate, and tagged @FBI.
> 
> The agency's Twitter bio asks users of the social network to submit tips through a dedicated website, tips.fbi.gov.
> 
> Mr Trump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Independent UK)​


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I think buffoons might fail to see why Trump is doing this publicly.


Yep if he tweets it, it's out there. If the communication is private, Comey and his cronies are free to mangle it beyond all recognition then leak the twisted result to the press.


----------



## Dr.G.

April 4th is the day that "1984" protagonist Winston Smith starts rebelling against the totalitarian regime by keeping a forbidden diary.

Long Live Big Brother.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Oh my, what's this? Surely not Obama's right hand gal?
> 
> Susan Rice ordered unmasking of Trump team in intel: Bloomberg View report - Washington Times


*Another perspective:*



> Rice herself, in a Tuesday afternoon appearance on MSNBC, admitted that she had asked for US citizens to be unmasked on several occasions throughout her tenure — though she was cagey about whether any of them were Trump transition team members. But she insisted she had done nothing wrong.
> 
> "The allegations that somehow Obama administration officials utilized intelligence for political purposes are absolutely false," she said. "[Unmasking] is necessary to do my job. ... Imagine if we saw something of grave significance about Russia, or China, or anybody else interfering with our political process."
> 
> So who's right? Well,* the actual experts on intelligence and national security who have followed this story — regardless of their political affiliation — have nearly uniformly backed Rice.* They believe there would have been nothing worrisome about Rice asking for the names of Trump officials to be unmasked while in her post as the administration's top national security official.
> 
> "Nothing in this story indicates anything improper," Susan Hennessey, a former attorney for the National Security Agency and current Brookings Institution fellow, tweeted. *"What we're seeing here is US officials doing jobs to respond to what had markers of a counterintelligence threat: the Trump campaign."*
> (CNBC)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Yep, looks like Trump team surveillance and illegal leaking of information was policy at the Obama White House. Trump was right and he knew it from the start.
> 
> Meanwhile the "Russian hacking of the election" story is presenting no evidence whatsoever.


*
Blackwater founder held secret Seychelles meeting to establish Trump-Putin back channel*

The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladimir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would be likely to require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.

Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.

Prince was an avid supporter of Trump. After the Republican convention, he contributed $250,000 to Trump’s campaign, the national party and a pro-Trump super PAC led by GOP mega-donor Rebekah Mercer, records show. He has ties to people in Trump’s circle, including Stephen K. Bannon, now serving as the president’s chief strategist and senior counselor. Prince’s sister Betsy DeVos serves as education secretary in the Trump administration. And Prince was seen in the Trump transition offices in New York in December.

U.S. officials said the FBI has been scrutinizing the Seychelles meeting as part of a broader probe of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and alleged contacts between associates of Putin and Trump. The FBI declined to comment.

(Much more on the story at Washington Post)​


----------



## CubaMark

*Poll: Trump more unpopular than Obama ever was*

Overall, voters give Trump a 35 percent job approval rating, with 57 percent disapproving. That’s down from the 37 percent Quinnipiac reported just two weeks ago, and worse than Obama’s lowest rating in the poll of 38 percent back in 2013.

Tim Malloy, the assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll, points out that President Bush had a lower rating in 2008, but that, “it took eight years, two unpopular wars and a staggering economy to get there.” Bush was viewed favorably by 28 percent of Americans at the time. 

Fifty-two percent of voters feel embarrassed that Trump is their president. Only 27 percent say they are proud.

Mr. Trump isn’t doing well with women (63 percent disapprove), Democrats (91 percent), and non-white voters (77 percent). Even among his base, his numbers continue to slip; only 39 percent of men approve of President Trump’s performance, while 51 percent disapprove. White voters now disapprove of him 48 percent to 43 percent, and while a majority of Republicans (79 percent) still approve of him, that’s down from 81 percent two weeks ago. 
(CBS)​


----------



## Macfury

Even if true (thanks, unnamed sources!) how did this "hack the election"?



CubaMark said:


> *
> Blackwater founder held secret Seychelles meeting to establish Trump-Putin back channel*
> 
> The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladimir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.
> 
> The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would be likely to require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.
> 
> Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.
> 
> Prince was an avid supporter of Trump. After the Republican convention, he contributed $250,000 to Trump’s campaign, the national party and a pro-Trump super PAC led by GOP mega-donor Rebekah Mercer, records show. He has ties to people in Trump’s circle, including Stephen K. Bannon, now serving as the president’s chief strategist and senior counselor. Prince’s sister Betsy DeVos serves as education secretary in the Trump administration. And Prince was seen in the Trump transition offices in New York in December.
> 
> U.S. officials said the FBI has been scrutinizing the Seychelles meeting as part of a broader probe of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and alleged contacts between associates of Putin and Trump. The FBI declined to comment.
> 
> (Much more on the story at Washington Post)​


----------



## Macfury

They have not near uniformly backed Rice. There's a lot of dissent. And a lot more finger-pointing since this morning



CubaMark said:


> *Another perspective:*
> 
> So who's right? Well, the actual experts on intelligence and national security who have followed this story — regardless of their political affiliation — have nearly uniformly backed Rice. They believe there would have been nothing worrisome about Rice asking for the names of Trump officials to be unmasked while in her post as the administration's top national security official.


----------



## Dr.G.

On April, 5th, 1951, Julius and Ethal Rosenberg were sentenced to death under Section 2 of the Espionage Act of 1917, which prohibits transmitting or attempting to transmit to a foreign government information "relating to the national defense". Pres. Trump chose to remember this infamous date by removing Steve Bannon, his chief strategist, from his permanent seat at the National Security Council. Interesting.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were electrocuted at sundown on June 19th, 1953. Wonder what will happen on June 19th of this year? We shall see.

Do I hear the echo of "lock her up ........ lock her up" once again?????


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> On April, 5th, 1951, Julius and Ethal Rosenberg were sentenced to death under Section 2 of the Espionage Act of 1917, which prohibits transmitting or attempting to transmit to a foreign government information "relating to the national defense". Pres. Trump chose to remember this infamous date by removing Steve Bannon, his chief strategist, from his permanent seat at the National Security Council. Interesting.
> 
> Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were electrocuted at sundown on June 19th, 1953. Wonder what will happen on June 19th of this year? We shall see.
> 
> Do I hear the echo of "lock her up ........ lock her up" once again?????


Hmmm wonder where that leaves Hiliary?
Russia scandal? Inside the Obama-Clinton uranium deal

Strikes me if you are going to try to reincarnate the Cold War Russia Specter, then enabling the sale of atom bomb making material to the Russians should qualify as treason.



> Tens of millions of dollars from uranium investors flowed into the Clinton Foundation, and Bill Clinton received a $500,000 speaking fee from a Russian bank tied to the Kremlin before Secretary of State Hillary Clinton helped decide whether to approve the sale to the Russian government of a company that held one-fifth of America’s uranium capacity.
> 
> 
> That’s the “deal” that Donald Trump referenced in a tweet Tuesday morning in which he essentially said that if Congress really wants to find evidence of U.S. politicians colluding with the Russians, it should investigate the $145 million in donations the Clintons’ received from uranium investors before Russia’s energy agency Rostatom secured the purchase of Uranium One.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Hmmm wonder where that leaves Hiliary?
> Russia scandal? Inside the Obama-Clinton uranium deal
> 
> Strikes me if you are going to try to reincarnate the Cold War Russia Specter, then enabling the sale of atom bomb making material to the Russians should qualify as treason.


Yep.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Hmmm wonder where that leaves Hiliary?
> Russia scandal? Inside the Obama-Clinton uranium deal
> 
> Strikes me if you are going to try to reincarnate the Cold War Russia Specter, then enabling the sale of atom bomb making material to the Russians should qualify as treason.





Macfury said:


> Yep.


"Lock them up .............. lock them up." Make America "safe for democracy" once again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Arnold Schwarzenegger accuses Trump of 'robbing (children) blind' - CNNPolitics.com

"Arnie, you're fired!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Reminds me of that TV series, OZ. All kinds of wonderful corruption in the name of rehabilitation.


----------



## Macfury

Arnie WAS fired! As governor of California he robbed the _taxpayer_ blind.



Dr.G. said:


> Arnold Schwarzenegger accuses Trump of 'robbing (children) blind' - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> "Arnie, you're fired!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark, how much have private prisons grown by under Trump? How does it compare to their growth under Obama?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How much have private prisons grown by under Trump? How does it compare to their growth under Obama?



I have no idea. Do you?


----------



## CubaMark

Since Trump only announced the reversal of Obama's plan to reduce private prison usage about 6 weeks ago, the actual programmatic use of them will no doubt take awhile to ramp back up again. Stock values, however, are already on the rise:


US private prison program rebooted by Trump administration (The Guardian UK)
Trump admin rescinds plan to reduce private prison use  (The Hill)
Under Mr. Trump, Private Prisons Thrive Again (NY Times)
Trump Moves to Make Private Prisons Great Again (The Daily Beast)
Private prison stocks up 100% since Trump's win (CNN Money)

I wonder how long before we see new examples of the Kids for Cash scandal.....?


----------



## Dr.G.

Russian spy released from prison and deported - CNN Video

Smart move. This helps to keep Carter Page out of the spotlight.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hillary Clinton: US should 'take out' Assad's air fields - CNNPolitics.com

Hillary Clinton, earlier today said that the "US should 'take out' Assad's air fields."

Trump launches military strike against Syria - CNNPolitics.com

This just in -- Trump launches military strike against Syria.

Who would have thought that Pres. Trump would take the advice of Hillary Clinton????????????????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Hillary Clinton: US should 'take out' Assad's air fields - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton, earlier today said that the "US should 'take out' Assad's air fields."
> 
> 
> 
> Trump launches military strike against Syria - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> 
> 
> This just in -- Trump launches military strike against Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> Who would have thought that Pres. Trump would take the advice of Hillary Clinton????????????????????



And a woman, no less. At this stage, the Donald's head seems to be spinning so fast that he doesn't even remember who put him into the Presidency. In other words, what will Steve Bannon do now? How does the puppet make decisions without the puppeteer's hand up his arse?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> And a woman, no less. At this stage, the Donald's head seems to be spinning so fast that he doesn't even remember who put him into the Presidency. In other words, what will Steve Bannon do now? How does the puppet make decisions without the puppeteer's hand up his arse?


Yes, what is his next move? Some Republicans and Democrats are behind him, and others have told him to come to Congress to authorize military actions in the future. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

This Syrian strike was a limited response, and, in my opinion, appropriate due to the chemical attack launched from this air field. However, I feel that Pres. Trump needs a plan as to what happens next. He needs to have some understanding of the consequences of his actions. We shall see.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> This Syrian strike was a limited response, and, in my opinion, appropriate due to the chemical attack launched from this air field. However, I feel that Pres. Trump needs a plan as to what happens next. He needs to have some understanding of the consequences of his actions. We shall see.
> 
> Paix, mes amis.


No! Way too many coincidences here. US already built up ready for instant response. ISIS kidnaps same number of people who were gassed. Assad gassing his own people makes no sense at all. Al Queda or ISIS terrorist/US proxy fighters doing the deed and blaming Assad makes perfect sense. Doing it to kidnap victims makes even more sense as they can be efficiently gassed in an enclosed area, then corpses staged for best effect. Bottom line it brings the US directly into a war they have been unsuccessfully trying to fight with with paid mercenaries. 

Let's not forget that Al Queda terrorists made a similar attempt not too long ago, but failed to increase US involvement, when UN inspectors exposed the fraud. Even so CNN was blaming Assad long after the cat was out of the bag.

Trump was a chump to fall for it. There was so much noise about his being a Russian plant he probably had no choice. Had Hiliary been elected the gassing might not have happened as the US would already have been all in. 

Big bonus for Hiliary here. In all likelihood Russia will respond probably by sinking a US warship. Even if that does not happen, those Russian Oligarchs whom with Hiliaries assistance bought Uranium One, can expect monster profits as this is almost certain to resurrect the cold war. Without that resurrection it's a good bet the Russian mafia would have lost money and Hiliary and Bill might have been Arkansicided.

Of course the CIA/MIC criminal cabal is absolutely delighted.


----------



## CubaMark

There are, IMHO, a good number of legitimate questions about this incident and who was responsible. I'd rather not make any further speculation, but I suspect down the road the narrative will change.

*In the meantime, back at home:*

*US job creation tumbles in March despite Donald Trump's promises to boost employment*

Donald Trump’s promise to be a major creator of new jobs is facing fresh pressure as figures showed the economy added just 98,000 positions last month, a sharp tumble following two strong months in January and February. 

** * **​
Throughout the election campaign, Mr Trump promised to be a president who created millions of jobs. During his inaugural address on January 20, he said he would add 25m jobs over the next decade - more even that Bill Clinton managed to create during the boom years of the 1990s.

“We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams,” said Mr Trump.

“Rusted out factories are scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from our homes and redistributed all cross the world.”

** * **​
Consumers actually slowed their spending in January and February, when adjusted for inflation. Any such pullback tends to exert a drag because consumers account for about 70 per cent of the economy.

(Independent UK)​


----------



## CubaMark

XX)

*Jared Goes To Iraq! A Picture Story*

XX)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump’s promise to be a major creator of new jobs is facing fresh pressure as figures showed the economy added just 98,000 positions last month, a sharp tumble following two strong months in January and February.


But the household survey said: "the number of employed Americans increased 472,000." So it's still a strong upward trajectory!


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> On April, 5th, 1951, Julius and Ethal Rosenberg were sentenced to death under Section 2 of the Espionage Act of 1917, which prohibits transmitting or attempting to transmit to a foreign government information "relating to the national defense". Pres. Trump chose to remember this infamous date by removing Steve Bannon, his chief strategist, from his permanent seat at the National Security Council. Interesting.
> 
> Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were electrocuted at sundown on June 19th, 1953. Wonder what will happen on June 19th of this year? We shall see.
> 
> Do I hear the echo of "lock her up ........ lock her up" once again?????


That is horrifying no matter what they did or didn't do. Americans do have a grim past when it comes to executing people, not as bad as some countries, but they are right up there...


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> No! Way too many coincidences here. US already built up ready for instant response. ISIS kidnaps same number of people who were gassed. Assad gassing his own people makes no sense at all. Al Queda or ISIS terrorist/US proxy fighters doing the deed and blaming Assad makes perfect sense. Doing it to kidnap victims makes even more sense as they can be efficiently gassed in an enclosed area, then corpses staged for best effect. Bottom line it brings the US directly into a war they have been unsuccessfully trying to fight with with paid mercenaries.
> 
> Let's not forget that Al Queda terrorists made a similar attempt not too long ago, but failed to increase US involvement, when UN inspectors exposed the fraud. Even so CNN was blaming Assad long after the cat was out of the bag.
> 
> Trump was a chump to fall for it. There was so much noise about his being a Russian plant he probably had no choice. Had Hiliary been elected the gassing might not have happened as the US would already have been all in.
> 
> Big bonus for Hiliary here. In all likelihood Russia will respond probably by sinking a US warship. Even if that does not happen, those Russian Oligarchs whom with Hiliaries assistance bought Uranium One, can expect monster profits as this is almost certain to resurrect the cold war. Without that resurrection it's a good bet the Russian mafia would have lost money and Hiliary and Bill might have been Arkansicided.
> 
> Of course the CIA/MIC criminal cabal is absolutely delighted.


Wow , just wow. It boggles my mind how you take certain pieces of information and weave them together like a spider's nest of deceit, backroom deals and collusion. You should write novels like Robert Ludlum. You could make big bucks.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> That is horrifying no matter what they did or didn't do. Americans do have a grim past when it comes to executing people, not as bad as some countries, but they are right up there...


This all took place during the height of the McCarthy witch-hunts. They were guilty of turning over classified secrets re the atomic bomb, which Russia already had, although the evidence against them was somewhat circumstantial.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Wow , just wow. It boggles my mind how you take certain pieces of information and weave them together like a spider's nest of deceit, backroom deals and collusion. You should write novels like Robert Ludlum. You could make big bucks.


I don't think it's clear that the gas was used by Assad. Also, why would he start using it again when he was winning?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I don't think it's clear that the gas was used by Assad. Also, why would he start using it again when he was winning?


Bingo. Notice that Assad was declared the villain and retaliation launched before any real investigations had a chance to arrive at the truth.

Then one also has to consider that we were lied to about Iraq and we were lied to about Libya. How can anyone believe the western propaganda machine would suddenly turn Sunday School honest now?


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> Bingo. Notice that Assad was declared the villain and retaliation launched before any real investigations had a chance to arrive at the truth.
> 
> Then one also has to consider that we were lied to about Iraq and we were lied to about Libya. How can anyone believe the western propaganda machine would suddenly turn Sunday School honest now?


Assad is a villain. No if ands or buts.


----------



## screature

Dr.G. said:


> This all took place during the height of the McCarthy witch-hunts. They were guilty of turning over classified secrets re the atomic bomb, which Russia already had, although the evidence against them was somewhat circumstantial.


Thanks Marc, that stirred my memory. I think there was movie about them was there not?


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Assad is a villain. No if ands or buts.


Sure, but that doesn't mean you should bomb his country in retaliation for a gas attack he might not have ordered or been responsible for. The time for that would have been when Obama drew his "line in the sand."


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Sure, but that doesn't mean you should bomb his country in retaliation for a gas attack he might not have ordered or been responsible for. The time for that would have been when Obama drew his "line in the sand."


I never said anything about that.

But, Syria could be a lot better off now if it were not for Putin. He has made it quite clear he does not care about how many hundreds of thousands of lives are lost when it comes to fulfilling his agenda.

Make Russia Great Again!


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Assad is a villain. No if ands or buts.


Amen, brother. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Thanks Marc, that stirred my memory. I think there was movie about them was there not?


This is the one movie I recall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_(film)


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> I never said anything about that.
> 
> But, Syria could be a lot better off now if it were not for Putin. He has made it quite clear he does not care about how many hundreds of thousands of lives are lost when it comes to fulfilling his agenda.
> 
> Make Russia Great Again!


Putin was filling a void left by Obama. His disengagement strategy was to leave the Middle East in the hands of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Instead, Russia took the upper hand as a power broker in the region.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Putin was filling a void left by Obama. His disengagement strategy was to leave the Middle East in the hands of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Instead, Russia took the upper hand as a power broker in the region.


Sorry but that is simply ridiculous. Obama went the way of the UN, he didn't have the support because of Putin, cut and dry. Yes Russia took the upper hand because they had it. They are closer geographically so much less costly to engage. 

Plus there was Ukraine and Crimea. Putin was rattling his guns all over the place. What do you think would have happened if the US with Obama went in to Syria unilaterally at that time?

It seems Trump is willing to do so, why is that? Kissing cousins maybe? One new oligarch to a veteran oligarch. At this point it seems, since this is not the civil thread, that Russia is right up America's ass and Trump likes it!

Russia was also up the ass of the US under Obama (pun intended), but at least he didn't like it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Just everyday people like you and me.


----------



## CubaMark

screature said:


> ....Yes Russia took the upper hand because they had it. They are closer geographically so much less costly to engage. .....


I have to take issue with this part of your argument: the USA has ginormous assets in the region... if anything, it's cheaper for them to engage than for the Russians!


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just everyday people like you and me.


Well that is the state of our world now.

Putin takes off his shirt while riding a horse, JT does a semi hand stand on a table while in a Caucus meeting... That is what the world is like know...

BTW did you ever watch The Interview  my wife and I watched it recently and we both thought it was hilarious. More belly laughs than I have had for a long time.


----------



## eMacMan

screature said:


> Sorry but that is simply ridiculous. Obama went the way of the UN, he didn't have the support because of Putin, cut and dry. Yes Russia took the upper hand because they had it. They are closer geographically so much less costly to engage.
> 
> Plus there was Ukraine and Crimea. Putin was rattling his guns all over the place. What do you think would have happened if the US with Obama went in to Syria unilaterally at that time?
> 
> It seems Trump is willing to do so, why is that? Kissing cousins maybe? One new oligarch to a veteran oligarch. At this point it seems, since this is not the civil thread, that Russia is right up America's ass and Trump likes it!
> 
> Russia was also up the ass of the US under Obama (pun intended), but at least he didn't like it.


You have to lay the Crimea/Ukraine mess right at the feet of the CIA and George Soros. They over threw an elected government and placed their own puppet in charge, this just three months before scheduled elections. Then said puppet informed 80% of the population of the Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, that they could not speak their first language, Russian. No need to blame Russia for their defection, we did everything we could to make it happen. 

It would be kind of like the CIA deposing Trudeau, then the new Puppet PM telling Quebecers they can't speak French. 

This is just one of a series of events carefully calculated to re-ignote the cold war and enhance the profits of the MIC while entrenching the position of the CIA.

Time to accept the fact that the US system is every bit as corrupt and evil as any other. No more free passes just because they are our guys.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> I have to take issue with this part of your argument: the USA has ginormous assets in the region... if anything, it's cheaper for them to engage than for the Russians!


I completely disagree, Russia and their assets are closer and more easily deployed, there is no doubt. It is simple logistics. The map that you presented indicates a tiny number of assets that are at the US's disposal compared to Russia who is right next door.

Regarding expense I again completely disagree. The US assets are there yes but when they use them, they are used all up and Russia being so much closer geographically does not need to ship more armaments to the region because if they run out, once again they are right next door

If the US and Russia, using non-autonomic weapons, were to battle it out over control of Syria the US would loose very badly.


----------



## screature

eMacMan said:


> *You have to lay the Crimea/Ukraine mess right at the feet of the CIA and George Soros. They over threw an elected government and placed their own puppet in charge*, this just three months before scheduled elections. Then said puppet informed 80% of the population of the Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, that they could not speak their first language, Russian. No need to blame Russia for their defection, we did everything we could to make it happen.
> 
> It would be kind of like the CIA deposing Trudeau, then the new Puppet PM telling Quebecers they can't speak French.
> 
> This is just one of a series of events carefully calculated to re-ignote the cold war and enhance the profits of the MIC while entrenching the position of the CIA.
> 
> Time to accept the fact that the US system is every bit as corrupt and evil as any other. No more free passes just because they are our guys.


What? No they didn't you are completely wrong, show me the proof, you can't because it isn't true.

But Ok, that's the way you see it. I suspect history will tell a different story.


----------



## CubaMark

> *Lizzie Phela*n‏ _@LizziePhelan_ 23 hours ago
> 
> Bolivian UN Ambassador somewhat stole the show. Holds photo representing the threat of US lies that have killed millions. #Syria #UNSC


*Context:*

*Bolivia UN Envoy on Syria Attack: 'History Teaches Us' US Lies to Justify Wars*

Lambasting the United States' aggression against Syria, Bolivian Ambassador to the United Nations Sacha Llorenti compared the basis for the unilateral move to former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell's infamous 2003 presentation to the body, when fraudulent evidence of an alleged Iraqi weapons program was presented to justify the U.S. war on Iraq.

Holding up an enlarged photo of Colin Powell's “weapons of mass destruction” speech, Llorenti made an impassioned plea to hold the U.S. to account for Thursday's unprovoked attack on Syria, noting the U.S. history of imperialist interventions in other nations, including Latin America.

"Now the United States believe that they are investigators, they are attorneys, judges and they are the executioners. That's not what international law is about."

The Andean nation currently holds a non-permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council.

"I believe it's vital for us to remember what history teaches us and on this occasion (in 2003), the United States did affirm, they affirmed that they had all the proof necessary to show that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction but they were never found … never were they found," the Bolivian envoy told the emergency Security Council meeting on Friday.

(TeleSur)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Well that is the state of our world now.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin takes off his shirt while riding a horse, JT does a semi hand stand on a table while in a Caucus meeting... That is what the world is like know...
> 
> 
> 
> BTW did you ever watch The Interview  my wife and I watched it recently and we both thought it was hilarious. More belly laughs than I have had for a long time.



I haven't, but I'd like to. I'm a big fan of some of Seth Rogen's projects, including Preacher.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Perhaps dementia is an even more likely explanation than simply narcissism. An interesting hypothesis, especially compared with past presidents.

Is Trump Suffering from Dementia?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

*Here is what 10 weeks of a Donald Trump presidency looks like.*


5 weekends in Mar Lago
15 rounds of golf, after promising to be too busy to play.
11 tweets per day on average, many of which contain blatant whining, blaming of others, taking credit for Obama's successes, embarrassing tantrums over silly things such as Saturday Night Live, etc.
More than 50 law suits
1 blocked travel ban
1 revised blocked travel ban
1 massive health care failure
1 massive F.B.I. probe
1 recused attorney general
1 baseless wire tapping claim
2 family appointees in the White House
1 resigned national security advisor
1 ex-national security advisor asking for Immunity from persecution.
22 visits to Trump branded properties
25 million dollar fine by a federal judge for fraud.
Trump put his daughter and his son in law on the federal payroll despite that fact that there is a federal law that forbids this. US code 3110.
Current approval rating is 34%. that is the fastest a president has gotten a rating so low.
Guaranteed Mexico would pay for the wall, but instead, he cut our education funding to help us pay for it. 
Tried to blame latest attack in Syria on Obama, saying Obama should have taken them out. But trump himself tweeted repeatedly to Obama about how he should stay out of Syria at all costs.
Says we are broke and cuts education funding to pay for the wall he guaranteed Mexico would pay for, but wastes 30 million dollars on an air strike against Syria that hurt almost nobody. But it does take attention off the fact that Flynn wants immunity for ratting him out as well as all those Russian witnesses dying. And while the strike may have been necessary eventually, it was done illegally without the approval of Congress.
Has already spent the same amount of money on travel, in 10 weeks, that Obama spent in 2 years.

So, when does all that winning start? And remember back in 2013, when trump was tweeting constantly about how President Obama has to stay out of Syria, it will only get us debt and the rebels are not worth it, and even if Obama did act, he needs the approval of congress? Yeah, then he went and did the opposite of that. Sort of like when he said he guaranteed Mexico would pay for the wall, but then he cut our education funding for it.​


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


>


That's a REALLY bad Photoshop job.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> That's a REALLY bad Photoshop job.



Perhaps, but I don't think it's the quality of the Photoshop that makes or breaks the Kendall Jenner joke.


----------



## SINC

The quality of the joke itself could also use a little work. Pretty lame attempt.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> The quality of the joke itself could also use a little work. Pretty lame attempt.


Only these hilarious diamonds of humour can pass the rigorous tests of the poster.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://youtu.be/AfCiV6ysngU

For reference.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://youtu.be/AfCiV6ysngU
> 
> For reference.


Yeah, it's pretty famous.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps, but I don't think it's the quality of the Photoshop that makes or breaks the Kendall Jenner joke.





SINC said:


> The quality of the joke itself could also use a little work. Pretty lame attempt.





Macfury said:


> Ont these hilarious diamonds of humour can pass the rigorous tests of the poster.





Freddie_Biff said:


> https://youtu.be/AfCiV6ysngU
> 
> For reference.





Macfury said:


> Yeah, it's pretty famous.


I have never seen it before now. The joke is lame, the ad is actually pretty good, although very over produced. 

Just an aside I think that Kendall is the most beautiful of the whole Kardashian/Jenner clan and at least she seems to have some dignity about her as opposed to the rest of the self absorbed fools in her family.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> So, when does all that winning start?


My guess is that a U.S. conservative would say, "Gorsuch", drop the mike, and walk away.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> My guess is that a U.S. conservative would say, "Gorsuch", drop the mike, and walk away.


That's actually enough, given the spectre of Hillary Clinton. Also undoing of many Obama executive orders and gutting of the EPA's inane "climate police" role.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> I have never seen it before now. The joke is lame, the ad is actually pretty good, although very over produced.
> 
> 
> 
> Just an aside I think that Kendall is the most beautiful of the whole Kardashian/Jenner clan and at least she seems to have some dignity about her as opposed to the rest of the self absorbed fools in her family.



I don't think her beauty is in question. What is in question is the wisdom of Pepsi to air this ad which trivializes protest movements—as though a can of Pepsi could ease all the tension between protesters and the police. That's why Pepsi pulled the ad amid thousands of complaints from their customers. 

So the corollary is that it would be somehow "just that easy" to neutralize Assad with a single air strike. It's a pretty clever meme, actually, though not everyone will understand it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> My guess is that a U.S. conservative would say, "Gorsuch", drop the mike, and walk away.



A US Conservative would also probably say November 8, when we won the election. Bigly. However, one must be careful what one wishes for.


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't think her beauty is in question. What is in question is the wisdom of Pepsi to air this ad which trivializes protest movements—as though a can of Pepsi could ease all the tension between protesters and the police. That's why Pepsi pulled the ad amid thousands of complaints from their customers.
> 
> So the corollary is that it would be somehow "just that easy" to neutralize Assad with a single air strike. It's a pretty clever meme, actually, though not everyone will understand it.


The ad was over produced. Quite frankly I didn't really get any "meaning" from it. It just looked like any other ad that I would look at and just pass over and forget.

Sometimes if you pay too much attention to somethings it just makes them worse, not better. I think that this is one of those times.

Literally, who cares? In this over saturated media world that we live in, no one will even remember next week.

I think the best option is if you don't like it, don't write about it when it is something this small and insignificant. You just add fuel to the fire that they were looking for, by reacting you just become part of their plan. It really is just that simple.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> The ad was over produced. Quite frankly I didn't really get any "meaning" from it. It just looked like any other ad that I would look at and just pass over and forget.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes if you pay too much attention to somethings it just makes them worse, not better. I think that this is one of those times.
> 
> 
> 
> Literally, who cares? In this over saturated media world that we live in, no one will even remember next week.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the best option is if you don't like it, don't write about it when it is something this small and insignificant. You just add fuel to the fire that they were looking for, by reacting you just become part of their plan. It really is just that simple.



Interesting reaction. Who cares? Clearly Pepsi does, or they wouldn't have pulled the ad. Optics is a very important part of advertising today.


----------



## Dr.G.

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free."

Washington Post takes feature-length look at Cape Breton and Trump - Nova Scotia - CBC News


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> A US Conservative would also probably say November 8, when we won the election. Bigly. However, one must be careful what one wishes for.


They may hope for more than they get, but they got more than they would have gotten from Clinton.


----------



## CubaMark

*Dr. Ben Carson. Housing & Urban Development. W-T-ever-lovin'-F???*

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NG29iyldsc[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Do you think it's clever to take a bunch of comments out of context? Glad you've developed that facility after the Obama administration ended.


----------



## SINC

Meh, it's Colbert. No credibility there.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Meh, it's Colbert. No credibility there.


Weak stuff, I know. Packing his audiences with hyenas always helps, I guess.


----------



## FeXL

So, CM, is this poll conducted by the self-same brainiacs who predicted his loss?

Jes' askin'...



CubaMark said:


> Poll: Trump more unpopular than Obama ever was


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Do you think it's clever to take a bunch of comments out of context? Glad you've developed that facility after the Obama administration ended.


Here it is in context - his full speech. You really think he comes off any better in context? :lmao:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZDrOso1ET0[/ame]

From appearances, it seems Dr. Carson has been playing with the knock-out gas when the anesthesiologist wasn't looking...


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Here it is in context - his full speech. You really think he comes off any better in context? :lmao:
> 
> From appearances, it seems Dr. Carson has been playing with the knock-out gas when the anesthesiologist wasn't looking...



Pulled due to copyright restrictions????


----------



## Macfury

Yes.



CubaMark said:


> Here it is in context - his full speech. You really think he comes off any better in context?


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Pulled due to copyright restrictions????


*Oops. Mea culpa. Fixed.*


----------



## Dr.G.

And now for something completely different ................

During his visit to London, Donald Trump met with Queen Elizabeth. 

He asked, "Your Majesty, how do you run such an efficient government? Are there any tips you can give me?"

"Well," replied the Queen, "the most important thing is to surround yourself with intelligent people."

Donald frowned, and then asked, "But how do I know the people around me are really intelligent?"

The Queen took a sip of tea and said, "Oh, that's easy Donald. You just ask them to answer a riddle."

Seeing the puzzled look on Donald's face, the Queen said, "Let me demonstrate it for you."

The Queen pushed a button on her intercom and said, "Please send Theresa May in here."

Theresa walked into the room and said, "Yes, Your Majesty?"

The Queen smiled and said, "Answer me this, Theresa. Your mother and father have a child. It is not your brother and it is not your sister. Who is it?"

Theresa answered, "That would be me."

"Yes! Very good," said the Queen.

Donald returned to the White House and asked Mike Pence the same question. "Mike, I want you to answer this riddle. Your mother and your father have a child. It's not your brother and it's not your sister. Who is it?"

"I'm not sure," said Mike. "Let me get back to you on that one." He went to his advisers and asked everyone, but none could give him an answer.

The next evening Mike and his wife were dining at a fancy restaurant when he noticed Sarah Palin.

Mike walked over to her table and asked, "Sarah, can you answer a riddle for me? Your mother and father have a child and it's not your brother or your sister. Who is it?"

Sarah answered, "That's easy, it's me!"

Mike smiled and said, "Thanks!"

After dinner Mike returned to the White House and met with Donald. Mike said, "I did some research and I found the answer to the riddle."

Donald said, "Fantastic. So, what is the answer?"

Mike replied, "It's Sarah Palin!"

Donald yelled, "No, you idiot! It's Theresa May!"

. . . and that, my friends, is what is going on at the White House.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> And now for something completely different ................
> 
> 
> 
> During his visit to London, Donald Trump met with Queen Elizabeth.
> 
> 
> 
> He asked, "Your Majesty, how do you run such an efficient government? Are there any tips you can give me?"
> 
> 
> 
> "Well," replied the Queen, "the most important thing is to surround yourself with intelligent people."
> 
> 
> 
> Donald frowned, and then asked, "But how do I know the people around me are really intelligent?"
> 
> 
> 
> The Queen took a sip of tea and said, "Oh, that's easy Donald. You just ask them to answer a riddle."
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing the puzzled look on Donald's face, the Queen said, "Let me demonstrate it for you."
> 
> 
> 
> The Queen pushed a button on her intercom and said, "Please send Theresa May in here."
> 
> 
> 
> Theresa walked into the room and said, "Yes, Your Majesty?"
> 
> 
> 
> The Queen smiled and said, "Answer me this, Theresa. Your mother and father have a child. It is not your brother and it is not your sister. Who is it?"
> 
> 
> 
> Theresa answered, "That would be me."
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes! Very good," said the Queen.
> 
> 
> 
> Donald returned to the White House and asked Mike Pence the same question. "Mike, I want you to answer this riddle. Your mother and your father have a child. It's not your brother and it's not your sister. Who is it?"
> 
> 
> 
> "I'm not sure," said Mike. "Let me get back to you on that one." He went to his advisers and asked everyone, but none could give him an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> The next evening Mike and his wife were dining at a fancy restaurant when he noticed Sarah Palin.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike walked over to her table and asked, "Sarah, can you answer a riddle for me? Your mother and father have a child and it's not your brother or your sister. Who is it?"
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah answered, "That's easy, it's me!"
> 
> 
> 
> Mike smiled and said, "Thanks!"
> 
> 
> 
> After dinner Mike returned to the White House and met with Donald. Mike said, "I did some research and I found the answer to the riddle."
> 
> 
> 
> Donald said, "Fantastic. So, what is the answer?"
> 
> 
> 
> Mike replied, "It's Sarah Palin!"
> 
> 
> 
> Donald yelled, "No, you idiot! It's Theresa May!"
> 
> 
> 
> . . . and that, my friends, is what is going on at the White House.



Yep.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I believe this sums up well why Republican voters should be having second thoughts.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I believe this sums up well why Republican voters should be having second thoughts.


----------



## Macfury

Reich is high on his own bad punditry. He bought it.


----------



## SINC

These two images pretty well nail it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> These two images pretty well nail it.



Kind of a shallow understanding of Obama, but I have no issue with the memes. Others might freak out at you, however, unless they are hypocrites.


----------



## eMacMan

We've all seen how successful regime change proved in Iraq. That's assuming you believe ISIS is a good thing.

Further "benefits" of Hiliaries legacy in Libya found in this article.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/african-migrants-seeking-europe-sold-slaves-200-153819975.html

Yet the Lame stream keeps hollering for regime change in Syria. 

When will we ever learn? How many innocents must die before we do?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> Kind of a shallow understanding of Obama, but I have no issue with the memes. Others might freak out at you, however, unless they are hypocrites.



And yup, they certainly do appear to be hypocrites.


----------



## FeXL

And the Charlie Foxtrot continues, even after he's gone...

Major Obamacare Insurer Blue Cross Blue Shield Won’t Turn a Profit in 2017



> Blue Cross Blue Shield insurers operating in the Affordable Care Act individual market will get close to break-even margins in 2017, according to a report from Standard & Poor's Global Market Intelligence.


----------



## FeXL

By then she'll be too old to indict so they'll just let her go...

Release Of Hillary Clinton’s Emails Won’t Be Finished Until October 2020



> A federal attorney said Tuesday that officials at the Department of State and other agencies can’t complete public disclosure of the remaining 100,000 unreleased Hillary Clinton emails for 42 months, or until October 2020.
> 
> Justice Department attorney Jennie Kneedler told U.S. District Court Judge James E. Boasberg Tuesday that “processing takes time.” She also told Boasberg during the status hearing on the case that the continued review of the former secretary of state’s emails was “not the best use of State’s time.”


They need to release 'em to the public. Little group effort would have those emails dealt with in a matter of weeks...


----------



## CubaMark

_Is this Trump's plan to deal with foreign leaders with whom he doesn't get along? Or is it perhaps payback for George Bush's sushi upchuck incident of '92 (Trump naturally confusing one Asian leader for another)? Or is it simply indicative of the kind of quality that exists behind the glittering backdrop of a Trump property? :lmao:
_
*Unsafe meat storage, raw fish among food safety violations at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago*










Undercooled meat, potentially dangerous raw fish and broken coolers were among 13 violations found by restaurant inspectors at Mar-a-Lago, the exclusive Florida resort owned by President Donald Trump, during visits in late January, state officials said on Thursday.

Mar-a-Lago representatives did not respond to requests for comment on the problems discovered at the private club, which charges $200,000 in initiation fees and has been dubbed the Southern White House. The officials said the infractions were fixed the same day.

This weekend, Trump is due to make his seventh trip as the 45th president of the United States to the Palm Beach property that he purchased in 1985.

The Florida Division of Hotels and Restaurants said three of the violations were deemed “high priority,” meaning they could lead to illness-causing bacteria being served in meals.

** * **​
The inspections took place on Jan. 26 and 27, just days before the state visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The worst violations included the failure to use proper parasite destruction on fish intended to be served raw or undercooked.

(Global News)​


----------



## SINC

So, lemme get this straight. An issue last January is raised by MSM a quarter of a year later to what end? As a former student of the craft that ought to slap you right upside the head, shouldn't it?


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> So, lemme get this straight. An issue last January is raised by MSM a quarter of a year later to what end? As a former student of the craft that ought to slap you right upside the head, shouldn't it?


A conspiracy, Don? The Miami Herald is being credited as the original source of the report and that's sure as heck not a lefty rag. 

More likely than not, reporters everywhere - but particularly in Florida - are interested in any tidbit relating to Mar-a-Lago, and when the DBPR (Department of Business & Professional Regulation) filed its inspectors reports from the January 26th/27th visit, 10 weeks later, up popped the violations. It may not be a "big news" story, but since Trump is conducting Presidential business out of his private resort, well, it's a wee bit juicy (if you'll pardon the pun) given that he's dined with a foreign leader there.

Personally, I found it more humorous than scandalous. What is scandalous is the lack of attention given to more concerning issues relating to Mar-a-Lago, including the lackadaisical approach to operational security, the economic damage he's inflicting by using it as a "Southern White House", and the enormous added costs for security. 

But hey, I'm a Canadian. What do I care if the U.S. taxpayer has to blow a few more million to keep Trump living in the style to which he is accustomed (and refuses to moderate), while they cut money for social programs and education? Let 'em starve and ignorify (new word!) their own citizens. They got the leader they wanted... well... almost most of them, depending on how one views the magical math of the U.S. electoral system....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

One question: are there ISIS in Afghanistan? I thought that was the home of Al-Queda and the Taliban. Dropping the "mother of all bombs," worth some 16 million dollars, on Afghanistan won't have much effect on ISIS if they're not there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> One question: are there ISIS in Afghanistan? I thought that was the home of Al-Queda and the Taliban. Dropping the "mother of all bombs," worth some 16 million dollars, on Afghanistan won't have much effect on ISIS if they're not there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was news to me, but checking it out, it appears they're gaining a foothold there:

ISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really? | ISIS in Afghanistan | FRONTLINE | PBS


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> More likely than not, reporters everywhere - but particularly in Florida - are interested in any tidbit relating to Mar-a-Lago


Not criticizing your choice of articles. I don't know enough about the details of the situation.

The quote is highlighted as an example of what I consider a gap between the public and news media. Reporters (everywhere) being interested in something means nothing.

It is not clear when or why they get interested in things (many outlets seem to have TMZ standards nowadays), or if their motivations are partisan/anti-partisan or not. 

I am sorry to say that trust is that low for journalists. Not fair to the good ones, but coverage during the election was so bad, this should be expected. How much time did the good ones take to call out the others for not putting the slightest effort into impartiality? Not the alternative "fake news", but the big names going after each other.

They do not appear to compete with each other.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It was news to me, but checking it out, it appears they're gaining a foothold there:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really? | ISIS in Afghanistan | FRONTLINE | PBS



It really is strange. It's a little like attacking Saddam Hussein for 9/11. There's no connection, at least not one that strong enough to test the most powerful non-nuclear weapon invented on. Trump should realize that these actions and those in Syria are simply going to create more refugees—little babies, even. There is no action without consequences. America seems to have trouble sometimes figuring out who it's enemies really are.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> It really is strange. It's a little like attacking Saddam Hussein for 9/11. There's no connection, at least not one that strong enough to test the most powerful non-nuclear weapon invented on. Trump should realize that these actions and those in Syria are simply going to create more refugees—little babies, even. There is no action without consequences. America seems to have trouble sometimes figuring out who it's enemies really are.


I don't think you'll create a lot of refugees by bombing the hell out of a warren of cave tunnels.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't think you'll create a lot of refugees by bombing the hell out of a warren of cave tunnels.



Maybe not. But the US military also has a reputation for non-precision when aiming at its targets many times. The "mother of all bombs" one would think to have a very large blast radius. In a test bombing in 2003 the mushroom cloud was visible from 32 km away.


----------



## FeXL

Where was all this concern for presidential "overspending" when, among other things, Barry took a trillion dollars & p!$$ed it away on "shovel ready jobs" that never materialized? What about the >$10 billion that the auto bailout cost the taxpayers during Barry's administration? These are just two examples among dozens, if not hundreds, of Barry's profligate spending & not a peep from you.

And you're worried about a few million dollars in security costs? And why this sudden concern about the fate of some business involved in a free enterprise system? That's not socialism now, is it?

Here's some numbers for you Maths challenged Progs: Know how many millions there are in a billion? A thousand. Know how many millions there are in a trillion? A million.

Trump could spend the next 8 years, every day, in Florida & use less cash than Barry lost on the GM deal alone.

How about a little perspective, Mr. biased ex-journalist...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-blah, blah-blah...
> 
> Personally, I found it more humorous than scandalous. What is scandalous is...the economic damage he's inflicting by using it as a "Southern White House", and the enormous added costs for security.
> 
> blah, blah-blah, blah-blah...


----------



## FeXL

A mile, I've read.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The "mother of all bombs" one would think to have a very large blast radius.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> A mile, I've read.


The dropping of which, I believe, was more of a warning to the Norks that the dropping of same could cause damage like they've never seen... and now they've seen it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The dropping of which, I believe, was more of a warning to the Norks that the dropping of same could cause damage like they've never seen... and now they've seen it.



So how is dropping a bomb on the wrong country in any way a responsible thing to do for the leader of the free world? It's like, I don't know, taking out 18 allied troops by accident. The US is quickly gaining a reputation for being reckless.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> So how is dropping a bomb on the wrong country in any way a responsible thing to do for the leader of the free world? It's like, I don't know, taking out 18 allied troops by accident. The US is quickly gaining a reputation for being reckless.



That was Syria. And the US is not "quickly gaining a reputation." It has always had a reputation for intervention. Clinton's bombing of an aspirin factory in Khartoum during the Lewinski scandal comes to mind.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The dropping of which, I believe, was more of a warning to the Norks that the dropping of same could cause damage like they've never seen... and now they've seen it.


Interesting. You may be right. 

Thing is, I doubt if The Spoiled Brat is that rational about the general population in the first place & in the second he's probably in a subterranean hideout right now so he's unlikely to be affected.

I understand the bomb has taken out 36 ISIS militants.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Clinton's bombing of an aspirin factory in Khartoum during the Lewinski scandal comes to mind.


The hell you say!!! 

Curious how short some people's memories are, idn't it...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> The dropping of which, I believe, was more of a warning to the Norks that the dropping of same could cause damage like they've never seen... and now they've seen it.


It is looking more like this is the case. I'm not fully there yet, but the Syria and Afghan attacks, while serving immediate goals, may have been more about North Korea than anything else. 

Still, there's too much constant chatter on the net about "4-D Chess" from Trump's fan base, so I'll wait and see. It's certainly worth considering. Trump has been underestimated many times. This would be about the third time for me.


----------



## Macfury

You can excuse any kind of bad strategy by claiming the person is playing "4-D chess" and then switching to "the long game" explanation. However, having China almost agreeing to take out the Nork's nuclear capability on their own was surprising. Even the triangulation on health care reform is fascinating.



Beej said:


> It is looking more like this is the case. I'm not fully there yet, but the Syria and Afghan attacks, while serving immediate goals, may have been more about North Korea than anything else.
> 
> Still, there's too much constant chatter on the net about "4-D Chess" from Trump's fan base, so I'll wait and see. It's certainly worth considering. Trump has been underestimated many times. This would be about the third time for me.


----------



## eMacMan

Beej said:


> It is looking more like this is the case. I'm not fully there yet, but the Syria and Afghan attacks, while serving immediate goals, may have been more about North Korea than anything else.
> 
> Still, there's too much constant chatter on the net about "4-D Chess" from Trump's fan base, so I'll wait and see. It's certainly worth considering. Trump has been underestimated many times. This would be about the third time for me.


Still he has pretty much flipflopped on everything. Pretty hard to distinguish his actions from Hiliaries stated policies. Pick your favourite name, it still looks like the Deep State/Super Elite/MIC has regained complete control.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Still he has pretty much flipflopped on everything. Pretty hard to distinguish his actions from Hiliaries stated policies. Pick your favourite name, it still looks like the Deep State/Super Elite/MIC has regained complete control.


I'm not sure about that. Trump has pretended to give in a number of times and then done a U-turn. Happy about Gorsuch in the Supreme Court and EPA choices so far.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure about that. Trump has pretended to give in a number of times and then done a U-turn.


The Romney charade was funny to watch. Pretend to give him a chance then...no.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure about that. Trump has pretended to give in a number of times and then done a U-turn. Happy about Gorsuch in the Supreme Court and EPA choices so far.


Hence my "looks like" qualifier. I hope he simply took an expedient tangent to deek out the Russian verbiage floated by the establishment. However seemingly buying the Syria used Sarin line of crap is disgraceful.


----------



## CubaMark

It's interesting how diverse are the voices calling the Syria gas attack a false flag operation (at worse) or a case of mistaken blame (at best):


Dennis Kucinich Questions White House’s Gas-Attack Narrative (Audio and Video) - Truthdig
A Critique of ‘False and Misleading’ White House Claims About Syria’s Use of Lethal Gas - Truthdig
Oppose US air strikes against Syria! No to escalating the military conflict in Syria! Hands Off Syria! - Tony Seed's Weblog
Ron Paul: "Zero Chance" Assad Behind Chemical Weapons Attack In Syria; Likely A False Flag | Zero Hedge
MIT professor exposes ‘egregious error’ & evidence tampering in US report on Syria sarin incident Russia Today - RT
Russia Says Evidence Growing Syria Chemical Attack Was Staged - Bloomberg
Syria's Bashar al-Assad labels Idlib chemical attack "fabrication" to justify US strike - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Putin says expects 'fake' gas attacks to discredit Syria's Assad | Reuters

It's not too much of a stretch to suggest this is Iraq's WMD fabrication all over again....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> It's interesting how diverse are the voices calling the Syria gas attack a false flag operation (at worse) or a case of mistaken blame (at best):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis Kucinich Questions White House’s Gas-Attack Narrative (Audio and Video) - Truthdig
> 
> A Critique of ‘False and Misleading’ White House Claims About Syria’s Use of Lethal Gas - Truthdig
> 
> Oppose US air strikes against Syria! No to escalating the military conflict in Syria! Hands Off Syria! - Tony Seed's Weblog
> 
> Ron Paul: "Zero Chance" Assad Behind Chemical Weapons Attack In Syria; Likely A False Flag | Zero Hedge
> 
> MIT professor exposes ‘egregious error’ & evidence tampering in US report on Syria sarin incident Russia Today - RT
> 
> Russia Says Evidence Growing Syria Chemical Attack Was Staged - Bloomberg
> 
> Syria's Bashar al-Assad labels Idlib chemical attack "fabrication" to justify US strike - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> 
> Putin says expects 'fake' gas attacks to discredit Syria's Assad | Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not too much of a stretch to suggest this is Iraq's WMD fabrication all over again....




Exactly. We don't want the first evidence that Syria has weapons of mass destruction to be a mushroom cloud. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I believe Iraq had that stuff at some point and I don't think it was as much a fabrication as an excuse.

This "gas attack" looks like a fabrication by someone, but I'm not sure it's officially the US government responsible. Lots of parties want the US in there.




CubaMark said:


> It's not too much of a stretch to suggest this is raq's WMD fabrication all over again....


----------



## CubaMark

One of the suggestions that seems quite plausible is that the Syrian airforce, which did conduct an attack in the area that night, may have hit the rebel's stockpile of chemical weapons. At this point, I don't know what kind of investigation could be done... particularly one that could reverse the already-managed message from Washington.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> One of the suggestions that seems quite plausible is that the Syrian airforce, which did conduct an attack in the area that night, may have hit the rebel's stockpile of chemical weapons. At this point, I don't know what kind of investigation could be done... particularly one that could reverse the already-managed message from Washington.



Why would the US backed rebels be stockpiling chemical weapons?


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why would the US backed rebels be stockpiling chemical weapons?


Wouldn't be the first time - there were allegations (I don't know the results of the deeper investigations) that the Syrian rebels used sarin against gov't troops and civilians back in 2013:

*UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use*

_Syrian rebels have made use of the deadly nerve agent sarin in their war-torn country's conflict, UN human rights investigator Carla del Ponte has said._

"According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas," del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday.

"We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas," she added.

She stressed that the UN commission of inquiry on Syria, which she is a part of, had far from finished its investigation.

Turkish authorities are carrying out blood tests on Syrians who have fled the fighting at home to determine if they have been victims of chemical weapons, a medical source said Monday.
(Telegraph)​
In a followup report in 2014, this BBC article appears to lay the blame with Assad, with the following caveat:

_The Syrian rebels have captured significant stockpiles of government weaponry throughout this conflict and as the inspectors' report notes many of the munitions and their fragments had been moved or otherwise tampered with._​


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why would the US backed rebels be stockpiling chemical weapons?


Stop depending on CNN and the Wash Post as your news source.

It makes much more sense that Al Queda (AKA moderate rebels), or ISIS would use them and try to blame Assad, than for Assad to use them on his own people. Happened in 2013 and again in 2014. Second time the UN investigators were right on sight. 

Especially true right now as the US had finally shifted away from the regime change line. This way Al Queda and ISIS get their funding back and the US is back into its regime change rut. Whatever else I may think about Assad, I know that he is not a complete idiot. He could not fail to anticipate the results.

Look again at that horrific video. You've been assured it was Sarin, but if it had been, those handling the victims without respirators or gloves would also be dead!

Regardless the MIC/CIA/Banksters are all dancing with delight.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Stop depending on CNN and the Wash Post as your news source.
> 
> It makes much more sense that Al Queda (AKA moderate rebels), or ISIS would use them and try to blame Assad, than for Assad to use them on his own people. ....
> 
> Look again at that horrific video. You've been assured it was Sarin, but if it had been, those handling the victims without respirators or gloves would also be dead!


Glad you said instead of me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Thanks for the info, eMacMan and CubaMark. Here's an interesting meme I saw on another forum.


----------



## Macfury

The meme would work better if the two pix of Trump had the same background.


----------



## Macfury

I love seeing Freddie thanking eMacMan for schooling him on seeking better information sources! I hope his good mood continues.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump is what happens when you let the lowest common denominator cast the largest number of votes. Okay, maybe not exactly....when you get the lowest common denominator to persuade the Electoral College to cast the largest number of votes. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump...


When disparaging Trump, we must remind ourselves of civility and the quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."


----------



## CubaMark

If this had been Obama, y'all would have taken it as proof positive of his evil commie-muslim dictator character.

But Trump? Oh, he was just caught up in the moment, enjoying the adulation of his fans, and... "forgot".... Yup.

*Donald Trump gets nudge from Melania after forgetting to raise hand during anthem* - National | Globalnews.ca

_At Donald Trump’s first Easter celebration as President of the United States, it seems he forgot to place his hand over his heart during the national anthem.

While this could have turned into a social media uproar, Trump appears to have been saved by First Lady Melania Trump. In a video posted on several social platforms, Melania appears to nudge the president to remind him to place his hand on his chest._​


----------



## Macfury

In fact, I made a very specific point of supporting Obama during a similar moment during the 2008 primaries.



CubaMark said:


> If this had been Obama, y'all would have taken it as proof positive of his evil commie-muslim dictator character.
> 
> But Trump? Oh, he was just caught up in the moment, enjoying the adulation of his fans, and... "forgot".... Yup.
> 
> *Donald Trump gets nudge from Melania after forgetting to raise hand during anthem* - National | Globalnews.ca
> 
> _At Donald Trump’s first Easter celebration as President of the United States, it seems he forgot to place his hand over his heart during the national anthem.
> 
> While this could have turned into a social media uproar, Trump appears to have been saved by First Lady Melania Trump. In a video posted on several social platforms, Melania appears to nudge the president to remind him to place his hand on his chest._​


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> When disparaging Trump, we must remind ourselves of civility and the quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt:
> 
> "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."


Still waiting for one of those gold-plated nuggets from Freddie to hit the pages of ehMac. Thus far, they all smell like road apples...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Still waiting for one of those gold-plated nuggets from Freddie to hit the pages of ehMac. Thus far, they all smell like road apples...


Shush now! He's playing the "long game."


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Shush now! He's playing the "long game."


I'd say. It's been years...


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

The left must be going into paroxysms over this repression. How dare the Feds arrest someone for merely practicing their religion!

Detroit physician charged with mutilating girls’ genitalia



> A Detroit emergency room physician was charged Wednesday with mutilating the genitalia of two 7-year-old girls in what is believed to be the first case of its kind brought under federal law.
> 
> Jumana Nagarwala of Livonia was charged with female genital mutilation, a five-year felony, and transportation with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, a 10-year felony, according to a complaint unsealed Thursday in U.S. District Court.


Detroit Doctor Accused Of Female Genital Mutilation Of Young Girls



> Little girls as young as 6 thought they were taking a “special girls’ trip” or needed to make a long journey to see the doctor because their tummies hurt, according to a criminal complaint filed in federal court Thursday charging a Detroit emergency room doctor with female genital mutilation. Female mutilation is a religious and cultural practice most often found in Africa, Asia and the Middle East, but it is illegal in the United States and has been denounced as a violation of women and girls by the World Health Organization.


Dr. Jumana Nagarwala is accused of mutilating genitals of young girls belonging to an Indian-Muslim group.



> In a stunning revelation in federal court today, an attorney for a Detroit area doctor charged with mutilating the genitals of young girls admitted that her client performed a procedure on the juveniles' private parts, *but maintained that it wasn't cutting.*


M'bold.

Well, in that case...

Further:



> The practice, which seeks to curb the sexuality of girls and women by making sex painful, qualifies as a criminal sexual act, as the intent of the procedure is considered to abuse, humiliate, harass or degrade.


Yet you never hear the left condemn this barbaric practice, save a single, recent, offhand comment from Mr. Sensitive...

Protection petitions filed for 2 girls in genital mutilation case



> Authorities in Minnesota have filed child protection petitions for two 7-year-old girls who prosecutors say were brought to Michigan by their mothers for a genital mutilation procedure.
> 
> The petitions were filed in Hennepin and Anoka counties on Thursday, the same day a Michigan doctor was charged with performing genital mutilation on the two girls. According to the FBI, Dr. Jumana Nagarwala was arrested after the 7-year-olds identified her as the person who performed procedures on them in February at a clinic in suburban Detroit.


----------



## FeXL

Long overdue.

BREAKING: Sessions Announces Illegal Aliens Who Illegally Re-Enter The U.S. Will Be Charged With a Felony



> "For those that continue to seek improper and illegal entry into this country, be forewarned: This is a new era. This is the Trump era. The lawlessness, the abdication of the duty to enforce our immigration laws and the catch and release practices of old are over," Sessions said.


----------



## CubaMark

Donald Trump. So inept, he can even **** up an Easter Egg event.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAHpDRxqbG0[/ame]

XX)

And bonus points for this:

*Guess Why Trump's White House Easter Egg Roll Was Mostly White Kids*


----------



## Macfury

Good grief--you're criticizing Trump over the Easter Egg hunt?! This is clearly Trump Derangement Syndrome at work.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump. So inept, he can even **** up an Easter Egg event.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAHpDRxqbG0[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> XX)
> 
> 
> 
> And bonus points for this:
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess Why Trump's White House Easter Egg Roll Was Mostly White Kids*




I'm guessing he won't be reimbursing those fans for their hats he gave away either.

And the white kids only thing? Well, we wouldn't want any trouble now, would we?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Jeff Sessions: "Be warned. This is a new era. This is the Trump era."

Well that's got to be reassuring to his base of followers. An era where he can't get a single law passed by congress, and when Republicans hold a majority in both houses. An era where the President has spent one out of every five of his first 100 days at his Mar-a-Lago golf course in Florida at the "Southern White House." An era where the President and his main residences have cost the taxpayers millions of extra dollars for security. Yup, that's quite an era. Drain that swamp so you can refill it with gators of your own choosing. 

ETA: And for what it's worth, passing a law by executive order is not the same as having it passed by Congress and the Senate. The two biggest: the travel ban and repealing and replacing Obamacare—both bigly failures by any measure.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> An era where he can't get a single law passed by congress, and when Republicans hold a majority in both houses.


 The Trump Administration has signed two dozen bills into law to date. If you're not sure of something, best to ask--not bray.



Freddie_Biff said:


> An era where the President has spent one out of every five of his first 100 days at his Mar-a-Lago golf course in Florida at the "Southern White House." An era where the President and his main residences have cost the taxpayers millions of extra dollars for security.


Given the amount of confirmed spying going on at the White House, I fully understand why Trump is using the Southern White House for now.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And for what it's worth, passing a law by executive order is not the same as having it passed by Congress and the Senate.


That's right. The two dozen laws were passed by the House AND Senate--in addition to confirming a new Supreme Court Justice! The travel ban was an executive order and not a law. 

So you can complain that Trump delayed the vote required to undo the Gordian knot of failing Obamacare in the first pass. However, he's back at it right now.


----------



## FeXL

Why not? If the law gets passed either way, what's the difference?

Never seemed to bother Barry. Also never heard a word of criticism from the left on all the EO's he signed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ETA: And for what it's worth, passing a law by executive order is not the same as having it passed by Congress and the Senate.


----------



## FeXL

I wondered if somebody was going to bring this up. So what's the issue here? Have you seen both sets of footage, including the one that clearly shows the correct person caught the hat?

Apparently not.

Try harder, Mr Ex-journalist.

As to your "bonus points" link, after reading a few of the headlines on the RH side of the webpage, I closed the browser window & will never again visit the "occupydemocrats" site.

OMG... :yikes:



CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump. So inept, he can even **** up an Easter Egg event.


----------



## FUXL

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/...egion&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&hp&_r=0


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FUXL said:


> Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/...egion&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&hp&_r=0



Weird. As though Fox News is trying to clean up its reputation or something.


----------



## FeXL

Chelsea Clinton Says Americans Were Too Sexist to Elect Her Mom



> Chelsea Clinton likes cheddar cheese and Twitter and hates that America can’t come to grips with what the Clinton Foundation actually does. Oh, and her mother lost because voters are sexist.


Of course she did...

Oh, & this little gem:



> Speaking to _Variety_ magazine (she graces the cover in a white t-shirt, motorcycle jacket and *a lot of Photoshop work*)


Ran across said photo yesterday (link herein). "A lot of Photoshop work" is an understatement.

In response, there's this:

Variety Catches Backlash For Chelsea Clinton Cover



> Variety Magazine has featured 37-year-old former first daughter Chelsea Clinton on the cover of their April edition, titled "Power of Women NY." Twitter users hate it.
> 
> ...
> 
> Nearly everyone who responded to the tweet had a negative impression of the magazine cover.
> 
> ...
> 
> "Stop pushing Clinton manufactured consent on us," wrote one such person. "There are other women who have done more."
> 
> ...
> 
> *There were no positive reactions to be found.*
> 
> "I'm just looking for ONE positive Tweet about this," noted one person. "Just one. Wow. Not ONE!"


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## CubaMark

_Once a bigot, always a bigot..._

*Jeff Sessions ˜amazed judge sitting on an island in the Pacific" can stop Donald Trump's travel ban*










The US Attorney General has come under fire for dismissing Hawaii - America’s 50th state - as an “island in the pacific”. 

Jeff Sessions was complaining about district judge Derrick Watson's decision to block Donald Trump’s executive order prohibiting new visas for people from six Muslim-majority countries and temporarily halting the US’s refugee program. 

"This is a huge matter," he told conservative talk show host Mark Levin. "I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the President of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and Constitutional power."










Her colleague and fellow Hawaiian Senator, Brian Schatz, pointed out that Mr Sessions had even voted as a senator to confirm Mr Watson as a judge. 

“You voted for that judge. And that island is called Oahu. It’s my home. Have some respect,” Mr Schatz tweeted.

** * **​
A US Justice Department spokesman defended Mr Sessions’s comments, saying the Attorney General’s point was to question one judge’s ability to block the President’s executive order for the travel ban. 

“Hawaii is, in fact, an island in the Pacific,” he told the Associated Press in an email. “A beautiful one where the Attorney General’s granddaughter was born,” Mr Prior added.

** * **​
Douglas Chin, Hawaii’s attorney general, said in a statement he was disappointed Mr Sessions failed to acknowledge that the federal courts are co-equal partners with Congress and the President”.

“Trump previously called a federal judge in California a so-called judge,” Mr Chin wrote. “Now U.S. Attorney General Sessions appears to dismiss a federal judge in Hawaii as just a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific,” he said.

(Independent UK)​


----------



## eMacMan

^^^^
Pretty strong independence sentiment in Hawaii. This should provide a boost.


----------



## CubaMark

*Summing up Jeff Sessions in a nutshell:*


----------



## Macfury

A meme is better if it uses actual quotes instead of pretending someone said something so you will feel better.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Gotta disagree respectfully with what makes a good meme. In this case, I believe the Jeff Sessions mentality is captured very well, much like Melissa McCarthy's over the top impression of Sean Spicer. It's lampoon, and it can be quite effective. There was a time, however, when Tina Fey used Sarah Palin's exact words in an impression and it was very bizarre, because the words made no sense when strung together, yet they were exactly the words Ms. Palin had used. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It's a very weak attempt at humour when you simply insert your own comedic line that is not close enough to the original. I've seen a lot of it lately.


----------



## Macfury

This WaPo poll indicates Hillary would STILL lose to Trump today:

Wash Post poll hides: Trump still beats Clinton, 43%-40%


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> This WaPo poll indicates Hillary would STILL lose to Trump today:
> 
> Wash Post poll hides: Trump still beats Clinton, 43%-40%


That it is that close, speaks volumes about the Donald's weaknesses. I suspect a sewer rat would do at least that well against Hiliary.


----------



## SINC

Yep, the American people think Clinton is bad news. They did during the election and they still do now.


----------



## CubaMark

I'd like to see that poll re-run with Trump vs. Bernie....

Meanwhile, the Buffoon-in-Chief keeps on being... _inappropriate_. 

*Trump says "congratulations — tremendous" to Purple Heart recipient.*










President Donald Trump raised more than a few eyebrows during his first visit as president to Walter Reed National Medical Center on Saturday when he awarded the Purple Heart to Army Sergeant First Class Alvaro Barrientos. 

"When I heard about this, I wanted to do it myself," Trump told Barrientos as he placed the Purple Heart on the soldier's lapel. 

“Congratulations … tremendous.” The medal is given to service members who were wounded or killed in battle.

Many on social media immediately criticized the president’s choice of words to the wounded soldier whose leg had to be amputated after he survived an attack in Afghanistan’s Helmland province.



> Oh...dear.
> Really, believe me, no one seeks a Purple Heart.
> 
> Truly. https://t.co/HXbnVy2S2q
> 
> — Kim Dozier (@KimDozier) April 22, 2017





> Congratulations? Like the Purple Heart is a prize? Trump is an idiot. Most of us always knew this. https://t.co/vf3g4AOA7m
> 
> — The Tweetwit (@TheTweetwit) April 22, 2017





> @louwho27 It's rather like if Trump signed a condolence card to a widow "congratulations". Not everything we do to mark something is a congratulation.
> 
> — Matthew Chapman (@fawfulfan) April 22, 2017





> @barbarastarrcnn So inappropriate. You don't congratulate a soldier for being wounded. You thank them for their service, dedication and sacrifice.
> 
> — SchoolHouseRockAlum (@HouseOfMichele) April 22, 2017


(Slate)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I'd like to see that poll re-run with Trump vs. Bernie....
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the Buffoon-in-Chief keeps on being... _inappropriate_.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump says "congratulations — tremendous" to Purple Heart recipient.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump raised more than a few eyebrows during his first visit as president to Walter Reed National Medical Center on Saturday when he awarded the Purple Heart to Army Sergeant First Class Alvaro Barrientos.
> 
> 
> 
> "When I heard about this, I wanted to do it myself," Trump told Barrientos as he placed the Purple Heart on the soldier's lapel.
> 
> 
> 
> “Congratulations … tremendous.” The medal is given to service members who were wounded or killed in battle.
> 
> 
> 
> Many on social media immediately criticized the president’s choice of words to the wounded soldier whose leg had to be amputated after he survived an attack in Afghanistan’s Helmland province.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Slate)​




Trailer park trash with a billionaire's spending habits. He wouldn't know appropriate if lodged like a bullet in one of his buttocks.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'd like to see that poll re-run with Trump vs. Bernie....
> 
> Meanwhile, the Buffoon-in-Chief keeps on being... _inappropriate_.


I'd like to see that match too--except Bernie couldn't get enough support from Democrats to run! Loser!

Regarding the Purple Heart--don't you have anything better to do than to nitpick every word the guy uses? This is Trump Derangement Syndrome full-blown.

Lots of positive comments from military members about the visit.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Good point. Donald Trump's derangement syndrome does appear to be full blown. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good point. Donald Trump's derangement syndrome does appear to be full blown.


Get used to saying it--Madame President.


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> I'd like to see that poll re-run with Trump vs. Bernie....
> 
> Meanwhile, the Buffoon-in-Chief keeps on being... _inappropriate_.
> 
> *Trump says "congratulations — tremendous" to Purple Heart recipient.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump raised more than a few eyebrows during his first visit as president to Walter Reed National Medical Center on Saturday when he awarded the Purple Heart to Army Sergeant First Class Alvaro Barrientos.
> 
> "When I heard about this, I wanted to do it myself," Trump told Barrientos as he placed the Purple Heart on the soldier's lapel.
> 
> “Congratulations … tremendous.” The medal is given to service members who were wounded or killed in battle.
> 
> Many on social media immediately criticized the president’s choice of words to the wounded soldier whose leg had to be amputated after he survived an attack in Afghanistan’s Helmland province.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Slate)​


Yep I have to agree with t he comments. His words were ill chosen. They should have been more something like, " I personally, and the people of America are grateful and salute you for your personal sacrifice to defend America and democracy." Or something like that. It sure as hell would be a helluva whole lot better, than the words he spoke! Once again he shows that he is an idiot. 

Imagine is PM Harper had used those crass words? The media in Canada would be all over him like white on rice.

What an idiot!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Get used to saying it--Madame President.



Get used to saying it--I am supporting a buffoon.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Get used to saying it--I am supporting a buffoon.


Bernie?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I'd like to see that match too--except Bernie couldn't get enough support from Democrats to run! Loser!
> 
> Regarding the Purple Heart--don't you have anything better to do than to nitpick every word the guy uses? *This is Trump Derangement Syndrome full-blown.*
> 
> *Lots of positive comments from military members about the visit.*


No it is not, it is warranted, he is an idiot. 

Sure because they won't say anything bad about their president because they are "patriots" and he is their Commander in Chief. To criticize him would be tantamount to treason in their thinking. That is a lame defense for what he said using the forces "positive comments" as actual support.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> No it is not, it is warranted, he is an idiot.
> 
> Sure because they won't say anything bad about their president because they are "patriots" and he is their Commander in Chief. To criticize him would be tantamount to treason in their thinking. That is a lame defense for what he said using the forces "positive comments" as actual support.


Is it any worse than using negative comments because they are Democrats?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Is it any worse than using negative comments because they are Democrats?


Who are you are talking about? This is not about about the GOP vs. Democrats. This is about the fact that Trump is clueless and lacks any sense of tact.

Also just to add you say:



> *This is Trump Derangement Syndrome full-blown.*


I say your comment is just full-blown fanboyism, if you cannot see the inappropriate nature of the Donald's words.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Who are you are talking about? This is not about about the GOP vs. Democrats. This is about the fact that Trump is clueless and lacks any sense of tact.


I guess you would have to ask the soldier if he was offended.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I guess you would have to ask the soldier if he was offended.


See my previous post #13078, that is my answer.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> This give the progressive movement a very bad name, especially since true liberals and progressives do not believe in shutting down the freedom of thought and expression.


I think it's fabulous. The more, the faster, the better.

This house of cards needs to come crashing down soonest...


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> See my previous post #13078, that is my answer.


Essentially, then, this is just a continuation of your opinion that he is unfit to be president--it doesn't really matter if anyone was offended.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ...--don't you have anything better to do than to nitpick every word the guy uses? This is Trump Derangement Syndrome full-blown.


No. This is a guy (me) who speaks the English language and is appalled at the apparent lack of sufficient mental capacity to use more than a half-dozen words in one's vocabulary. 

I'm not the only one who thinks that the Donald is a few bricks short of a load....

*Donald Trump Is Unintelligible*










The AP has released the transcript of its Friday interview with our Yam-in-Chief, and much of it is utterly unintelligible.

That’s not just my personal assessment, either. In 16 instances, the AP’s transcribers found that they were unable to discern what the **** it was that Trump was saying. It’s unclear what exactly the deal is here, as Trump is more of a “bellower” than a “mumbler.” Webster’s defines “unintelligible” as “impossible to understand.” My theory isn’t so much that the recording was inaudible so much as that it didn’t make a lick of sense.

(Read on at... Jezebel)​


----------



## Macfury

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




He appointed Gorsuch and is unraveling so-called "climate change" regs. Life is good!

Not as much "okey-doke."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He appointed Gorsuch and is unraveling so-called "climate change" regs. Life is good!
> 
> Not as much "okey-doke."


MF - that was poetry compared to the bigly stuff that comes out of the Buffoon's mouth. 

:yawn:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Republicans' Island -- for ****s and giggles 
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1516308895128826/


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Republicans' Island -- for ****s and giggles
> https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1516308895128826/


The funniest part of that link--that there's still some ancient remnant of that failed "Occupy" movement using the name "Occupy Democrats." I still remember when the Occupy group was crapping publicly in a park in downtown Toronto.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The funniest part of that link--that there's still some ancient remnant of that failed "Occupy" movement using the name "Occupy Democrats." I still remember when the Occupy group was crapping publicly in a park in downtown Toronto.



Yeah, that's not the funniest party of the video. In fact, that has pretty much nothing to do with the video. But thanks for playing.


----------



## FeXL

Good question. Because they're the MSM?

Why Is MSM Covering Up Trump’s Closure Of Corrupt ENERGY STAR?



> Recently the Trump administration began the ‘close out’ of the ENERGY STAR program, essentially repealing the ENERGY STAR mandate which granted the EPA’S Billionaires Club a complete monopoly over all government procurement for decades. Media Foundations can’t afford to report on the ENERGY STAR repeal, because no other industry profited more from the Junk Science produced by this corrupt federal agency than members of the Liars Club.


More:



> *ENERGY STAR is arguably the most corrupt federal program in US history, built entirely on myth, fraudulent scientific research and bogus technical reports.* Which explains why most Americans have never heard of the ENERGY STAR program, and couldn’t locate a single shred of evidence supporting the EPA’s phony claims of hundreds of billions of dollars allegedly saved by EPA Partnerships.


M'bold.

Sound like much of gov't policy, doesn't it.

But wait!!! Further on Barry's Legacy:



> ...ENERGY STAR’s big break came rather suddenly in 2009, when the Obama Administration released the EPA: Lead By Example guidelines and began claiming that ENERGY STAR products save 25-50% more electrical energy than other identical products. No technological breakthroughs were involved in this miracle, only the reshuffling of words on paper were required to create incredible value for this rare commodity.


There's a surprise...


----------



## FeXL

On mocking His Holiness...

Ex ‘SNL’ Star: Show ‘Gave Up on the Obama Thing’



> “SNL” became increasingly progressive during the Obama years. Few sketches skewered the first black president. The show’s writers ignored Obama’s considerable ego, his lofty pronouncements nor the fallout from the 2013 PolitiFact Lie of the Year – “If you like your health care plan you can keep it.”
> 
> While conservatives pounced on the president via social media “SNL’s” professional scribes just couldn’t find much to mock.


In not watching SNL, I've obviously not missed much. Especially recently...


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No illegal voters in the US. Nosiree...

Nevada DMV Ordered Workers To Register Non Citizens to Vote



> Nevada Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske has discovered that DMV employees have been ordered by superiors to register non citizens to vote. Furthermore, an unspecified number of them have actually voted.


----------



## FeXL

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt.

Obama Had To Pressure Hillary Multiple Times To Concede On Election Night



> The presidential election of 2016 shocked the world, but no one was more shocked than Hillary Clinton. A new book on the Clinton campaign contains the revelation that Clinton had to be pressured into conceding her loss on election night by President Barack Obama.
> 
> “POTUS doesn’t think it’s wise to drag this out,” White House political director David Simas is reported as saying to Robby Mook, Clinton’s campaign manager.
> 
> The campaign did not concede at that point.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's Legacy.

(long read)

Obama’s hidden Iran deal giveaway



> In its determination to win support for the nuclear deal and prisoner swap from Tehran — and from Congress and the American people — the Obama administration did a lot more than just downplay the threats posed by the men it let off the hook, according to POLITICO’s findings.
> 
> Through action in some cases and inaction in others, the White House derailed its own much-touted National Counterproliferation Initiative at a time when it was making unprecedented headway in thwarting Iran’s proliferation networks. In addition, the POLITICO investigation found that Justice and State Department officials denied or delayed requests from prosecutors and agents to lure some key Iranian fugitives to friendly countries so they could be arrested. Similarly, Justice and State, at times in consultation with the White House, slowed down efforts to extradite some suspects already in custody overseas, according to current and former officials and others involved in the counterproliferation effort.
> 
> And as far back as the fall of 2014, Obama administration officials began slow-walking some significant investigations and prosecutions of Iranian procurement networks operating in the U.S. These previously undisclosed findings are based on interviews with key participants at all levels of government and an extensive review of court records and other documents.
> 
> “Clearly, there was an embargo on any Iranian cases,” according to the former federal supervisor.
> 
> “Of course it pissed people off, but it’s more significant that these guys were freed, and that people were killed because of the actions of one of them,” the supervisor added, in reference to Ravan and the IED network.
> 
> The supervisor noted that in agreeing to lift crippling sanctions against Tehran, the Obama administration had insisted on retaining the right to go after Iran for its efforts to develop ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads and cruise missiles that could penetrate U.S. defenses, and to illegally procure components for its nuclear, military and weapons systems.
> 
> “Then why would you be dismissing the people that you know about who are involved in that?” the former official asked.


----------



## FeXL

Trump supporters don't have buyer's remorse but some Clinton voters do: Poll 



> A new Washington Post-ABC News poll confirms this - in spades. And, in fact, it shows more buyer's remorse for Trump's opponent in the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton. And were the 2016 election held again today, it shows Trump would avenge his popular-vote loss.
> 
> While just 4% of Trump's supporters say they would back someone else if there was a redo of the election, fully 15% of Clinton supporters say they would ditch her.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Essentially, then, this is just a continuation of your opinion that he is unfit to be president--it doesn't really matter if anyone was offended.


No, that is your take away. You can take away whatever you want and be happy with it. I tend to* look at the bigger picture sometimes, and at times the smaller picture and sometimes the two are intertwined.*

Case in point. 

You don't care what an idiot Trump is as a President of the US so long as he adheres to most correctly your personal agenda. 

I think we all get that and so no matter what he says or does you are going to find some way to defend him or his statements. I think that makes you a Trump Fanboy... I could be wrong but in just these early days that seems the way it is.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Trump supporters don't have buyer's remorse but some Clinton voters do: Poll


That is just a f**king ridiculous article! Trump Won! How could Hillary supporters have "buyers" remorse?! She didn't win!!! This has got to be the epitome of a stupid ass article with stupid ass math that amounts to nothing. tptptptp

Some people actually need to study and get a degree before they can go off spouting pure f**king nonsense. This a pathetic article, not worthy of even an undergrad student.

Sun seems to need to find some new actually educated "reporters" if this is the kind of reporting" that they are going to do, if not they should rightfully and correctly go out of business because they are just a bunch of ****tards.

Can I express more fully how I feel about the subject in case anyone is in doubt?


----------



## Macfury

No, I don't agree with everything Trump is doing, but by and large he is doing more of what I want a president to do. I don;t defend every one of his statements--and I don't think he's stupid, either.



screature said:


> No, that is your take away. You can take away whatever you want and be happy with it. I tend to* look at the bigger picture sometimes, and at times the smaller picture and sometimes the two are intertwined.*
> 
> Case in point.
> 
> You don't care what an idiot Trump is as a President of the US so long as he adheres to most correctly your personal agenda.
> 
> I think we all get that and so no matter what he says or does you are going to find some way to defend him or his statements. I think that makes you a Trump Fanboy... I could be wrong but in just these early days that seems the way it is.


----------



## Macfury

They're sorry they cast their vote for Hillary. 



screature said:


> That is just a f**king ridiculous article! Trump Won! How could Hillary supporters have "buyers" remorse?! She didn't win!!! This has got to be the epitome of a stupid ass article with stupid ass math that amounts to nothing. tptptptp
> 
> Some people actually need to study and get a degree before they can go off spouting pure f**king nonsense. This a pathetic article, not worthy of even an undergrad student.
> 
> Sun seems to need to find some new actually educated "reporters" if this is the kind of reporting" that they are going to do, if not they should rightfully and correctly go out of business because they are just a bunch of ****tards.
> 
> Can I express more fully how I feel about the subject in case anyone is in doubt?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> They're sorry they cast their vote for Hillary.


Who the f**K cares, and what does it matter? The Donald won. This seems like post game BS that washed up athletes just talk about to fill up time until the next real program comes on!

It is just BS "journalism" at its worst. I used to have a little respect for Sun when Ezra was there (SAY WHAT, WHAT THE [email protected]@K YOU TALKING ABOUT), but I actually did. 

I know the guy did his research and whether you choose to believe him or not it is your choice It is pretty much as simple as that. But I can almost guarantee you he did a whole more research on most of the topics that he commented on than his competitors, if not more at least the same. He was not lazy in the least. Of course he could be wrong.

But with this latest "article", as I said before, "who the f**k cares" Trump won.

It is just lazy ass partisan journalism... It is pathetic.


----------



## Macfury

The actual intention of the poll, I believe, was to indicate that Hillary would have won had the election been held today. The part about Trump doing better was buried in the last half of the WaPo story. I find the turnabout interesting.



screature said:


> Who the f**K cares, and what does it matter? The Donald won. This seems like post game BS that washed up athletes just talk about to fill up time until the next real program comes on!
> 
> It is just BS "journalism" at its worst. I used to have a little respect for Sun when Ezra was there (SAY WHAT, WHAT THE [email protected]@K YOU TALKING ABOUT), but I actually did.
> 
> I know the guy did his research and whether you choose to believe him or not it is your choice It is pretty much as simple as that. But I can almost guarantee you he did a whole more research on most of the topics that he commented on than his competitors, if not more at least the same. He was not lazy in the least. Of course he could be wrong.
> 
> But with this latest "article", as I said before, "who the f**k cares" Trump won.
> 
> It is just lazy ass partisan journalism... It is pathetic.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The actual intention of the poll, I believe, was to indicate that Hillary would have won had the election been held today. The part about Trump doing better was buried in the last half of the WaPo story. I find the turnabout interesting.


You can say whatever you want. It was definitely meant to be discrediting toward HC, there is no doubt. To try and pretend it was meant as anything else is just to be blind or blindly partisan. And WTF for? The Trump has won!!! What more do you need!!

Christ there are some bad winners out there!!!

Should Hillary be drawn and quartered!!?? WTF do you want?


----------



## FeXL

Well, thank you for your opinion, screature.



screature said:


> That is just a f**king ridiculous article!


'Cause a degree makes you so much smarter...



screature said:


> Some people actually need to study and get a degree before they can go off spouting pure f**king nonsense.


----------



## FeXL

If that happened on my train, there'd be 5-10 fewer robbers next weekend... beejacon

BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders



> BART police are beefing up patrols at Oakland stations after dozens of juveniles terrorized riders Saturday night when they invaded the Coliseum Station and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries.


----------



## Macfury

The original WaPo article was intended to be anti-Trump. FeXL linked to an article that pointed outwhat was buried in the WaPo poll.



screature said:


> You can say whatever you want. It was definitely meant to be discrediting toward HC, there is no doubt. To try and pretend it was meant as anything else is just to be blind or blindly partisan. And WTF for? The Trump has won!!! What more do you need!!
> 
> Christ there are some bad winners out there!!!
> 
> Should Hillary be drawn and quartered!!?? WTF do you want?


----------



## CubaMark

*American Media Are Getting People at Home Ready for War With North Korea*

Remember what it felt like a couple of months ago when you, as an American, didn’t give much thought to North Korea? I’d like you to try and remember that feeling over the next couple of weeks, because the US government wants that to change. The past month has shown a tremendous shift in news coverage about North Korea. And that’s no accident.

President Donald Trump continues to beat the drums of war, and the media are going along with him. Trump doesn’t have any particular incentive to bomb North Korea or advocate for regime change in the country. It’s not even clear that Trump knows the leader of North Korea’s name. But Trump is above all a man who likes to be liked. And so far, the actions that have won him the most praise have been when he dropped a bunch of bombs on Syria.

Some talking heads on American TV will insist that we don’t want war. But with a subtle shift in narrative, there comes a sense that “we,” as the world’s police, have no other choice. Once the media talking heads get far enough down that road, constructive criticism of potential war (both at the dinner table and the water cooler) become loaded with questions of “well, if you love North Korea so much, why don’t you move there?”

(Gizmodo)​
*AND*

*Entire U.S. Senate to go to White House for North Korea briefing | Reuters*

Top Trump administration officials will hold a rare briefing on Wednesday at the White House for the entire U.S. Senate on the situation in North Korea.

All 100 senators have been asked to the White House for the briefing by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said White House spokesman Sean Spicer on Monday.

While administration officials routinely travel to Capitol Hill to address members of Congress on foreign policy matters, it is unusual for the entire Senate to go to the White House, and for all four of those officials to be involved.

Wednesday’s briefing was originally scheduled for a secure room at the Capitol, but President Donald Trump suggested a shift to the White House, congressional aides said.
(Reuters via Cryptogon)​


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> *American Media Are Getting People at Home Ready for War With North Korea*
> 
> Remember what it felt like a couple of months ago when you, as an American, didn’t give much thought to North Korea? I’d like you to try and remember that feeling over the next couple of weeks, because the US government wants that to change. The past month has shown a tremendous shift in news coverage about North Korea. And that’s no accident.
> 
> President Donald Trump continues to beat the drums of war, and the media are going along with him. Trump doesn’t have any particular incentive to bomb North Korea or advocate for regime change in the country. It’s not even clear that Trump knows the leader of North Korea’s name. But Trump is above all a man who likes to be liked. And so far, the actions that have won him the most praise have been when he dropped a bunch of bombs on Syria.
> 
> Some talking heads on American TV will insist that we don’t want war. But with a subtle shift in narrative, there comes a sense that “we,” as the world’s police, have no other choice. Once the media talking heads get far enough down that road, constructive criticism of potential war (both at the dinner table and the water cooler) become loaded with questions of “well, if you love North Korea so much, why don’t you move there?”
> 
> (Gizmodo)​
> *AND*
> 
> *Entire U.S. Senate to go to White House for North Korea briefing | Reuters*
> 
> Top Trump administration officials will hold a rare briefing on Wednesday at the White House for the entire U.S. Senate on the situation in North Korea.
> 
> All 100 senators have been asked to the White House for the briefing by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said White House spokesman Sean Spicer on Monday.
> 
> While administration officials routinely travel to Capitol Hill to address members of Congress on foreign policy matters, it is unusual for the entire Senate to go to the White House, and for all four of those officials to be involved.
> 
> Wednesday’s briefing was originally scheduled for a secure room at the Capitol, but President Donald Trump suggested a shift to the White House, congressional aides said.
> (Reuters via Cryptogon)​


Well, this is what Pres. Wilson did when the Germans informed the US that they were going to resume unrestricted submarine attacks on any US ships that were bound for England or France. Of course, Pres. Wilson addressed the joint session of Congress in the House chambers, and there were media present to record his speech. This Special Session of Congress ,held on 2 April 1917, saw Pres. Wilson deliver this 'War Message.' Four days later, Congress overwhelmingly passed the War Resolution which brought the United States into the Great War.

"It is a fearful thing to lead this great peaceful people into war, into the most terrible and disastrous of all wars, civilization itself seeming to be in the balance. But the right is more precious than peace, and we shall fight for the things which we have always carried nearest our hearts -- for democracy, for the right of those who submit to authority to have a voice in their own governments, for the rights and liberties of small nations, for a universal dominion of right by such a concert of free peoples as shall bring peace and safety to all nations and make the world itself at last free. To such a task we can dedicate our lives and our fortunes, everything that we are and everything that we have, with the pride of those who know that the day has come when America is privileged to spend her blood and her might for the principles that gave her birth and happiness and the peace which she has treasured. God helping her, she can do no other. "

It remains to be seen if Trump will be as eloquent. We shall see.

https://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Wilson's_War_Message_to_Congress


----------



## Rps

Whether it's Chicken Kiev or Bombing Kiev, all recipes require proper prep. Just like WW1, "our extensive preparation will mean a quick and easy war....home by Christmas". Like lemmings we are, I fear, being lead down this path. What is concerning to me is that many can justify it......


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Denial. Not just a river in Egypt.
> 
> Obama Had To Pressure Hillary Multiple Times To Concede On Election Night


Not to be argumentive, and also not saying this didn't happen, but somebody saying that somebody said something to somebody, and it not being confirmed by a "somebody" is not news but speculation just sayin'


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Not to be argumentive, and also not saying this didn't happen, but somebody saying that somebody said something to somebody, and it not being confirmed by a "somebody" is not news but speculation just sayin'


Fine.

However, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary from the parties involved, I'm willing to accept it _prima facie_ & stand to be corrected.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not to be argumentive, and also not saying this didn't happen, but somebody saying that somebody said something to somebody, and it not being confirmed by a "somebody" is not news but speculation just sayin'


The authors of the book were given special access to the Clinton campaign--probably presuming they would win.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...640772-2066-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Well, thank you for your opinion, screature.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause a degree makes you so much smarter...


Don't know where you are getting that from and you didn't write the article so I don't know why you would take offense to my opinion of it.


----------



## FeXL

screature said:


> Don't know where you are getting that from and you didn't write the article so I don't know why you would take offense to my opinion of it.


Didn't take offence to it. Just found it...strong.

Also didn't care for your appeal to authority, a logical fallacy-a degree.


----------



## FeXL

There goes the narrative...

Hundreds of Illegal Voters Uncovered in North Carolina in 2016



> Hundreds of illegal voters participated in the 2016 general election in North Carolina, according to a new report.
> 
> The post-election audit report, released by the North Carolina State Board of Elections (NCSBE), an independent and bipartisan agency that oversees elections in the state, found hundreds of illegal votes, including votes cast by felons and non-citizens, double voting, voter impersonation, and irregularities that affected mail-in absentee ballots.
> 
> *The audit uncovered 441 cases* where suspected active felons voted during the 2016 elections.


Buuuut, nobody needs ID to vote. Nosireeeee. That's racist...


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump has just declared that his first 100 days in office shall be longer than any other president. He even gave this first 100 day period a motto -- "Citius, Altius, Fortius" (which reminds me a great deal of the Olympic motto of "Faster, Higher, Stronger"). I shall await to hear if on Saturday he announces that his legislation was greater and had a far more reaching economic and social impact than that of FDR. We shall see.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> Didn't take offence to it. Just found it...strong.
> 
> Also didn't care for your appeal to authority, a logical fallacy-a degree.


Well FeLX, being FeXL, you should be used to strong language as you use it all the time. And just to say depending on what was said I can tell my best friend to f**k off and he would take no offense and probably we would laugh together.

So it is all relative to who you are talking to, the intimacy of the relationship of who you are talking to (a friend of 10 years or someone you just met for the first time), where you are, the subject matter, etc. etc.

I agree that there are plenty of idiots with journalism degrees. But now anyone, literally anyone can start a blog and post whatever chite they want but that is the internet, that is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing.

But when people start linking to chite as if it were the "truth" based on their own "editorial" opinion of the meaning of raw data, then I think it is required to look up the credentials and history of the author. Only makes sense to me, I think you would do the same.

There are plenty of bad folks about that use the internet to facilitate their "ill intentions". We know this to be true, there are countless examples, ISIS is the first that comes to mind on a global scale, probably Anonymous would come 2nd at least IMO. 

So the internet can be used to tell the "truth" or spread "propaganda". So it is up to you to decide which is which and it is up others to agree or disagree with your assessment. Pretty simple, it needs no degree on the part of the reader. It could possibly be useful on the part of the writer... but then again, maybe not. But I think a discerning reader might do a little research about the author, not that it should necessarily change their opinion of what they had to say. But I think it is just due diligence as a thoughtful reader, maybe that is just me and the experience and training that I have.


----------



## Dr.G.

Judge blocks part of Trump's sanctuary cities executive order - CNNPolitics.com

"Judge blocks part of Trump's sanctuary cities executive order" 

Another setback for Pres. Trump. He should consider undoing the various federal child labor laws and put children to work on building The Wall. They could join in to help convicts in federal prisons. His new company, Trump Concrete, which he knows nothing about, could supply the building blocks for The Wall ............ at cost. A win-win situation as he nears his 100 days in office mark.

23 Lewis Hine Child Labor Photos That Shocked America


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting this did not make the lamestream, including the local paper.

Possibly fake, more likely just repressed.

Cops Detain Entire School, Illegally Search/Grope 900 Kids â€” Find NOTHING, Parents Furious – Anonymous



> _Worth County, GA_ — Children feel violated, parents are furious, and a lawsuit is getting filed after the Worth County Sheriff’s office conducted an illegal search of 900 students — in the name of the war on drugs. *The rights-violating intrusive and aggressive patdowns and drug dog searches yielded absolutely nothing.
> *
> On April 14, when the students of Worth County High School returned from spring break, they arrived at school to find a police state had taken over. The sheriff and his deputies — with no probable cause — detained and illegally searched every single child in the school, all 900 of them.
> 
> When kids went home that day to tell their parents what happened, naturally, they were furious as it is a gross violation of the children’s 4th Amendment rights.
> ....


Was able to find an NBC report confirming the story. The police state is here or at least in Georgia.


----------



## FeXL

The hits just keep coming. Further on Bill's Wife.

EXCLUSIVE: Hillary Aides Threatened Prime Minister’s Son With IRS Audit, He Says



> Hillary Clinton’s Department of State aides allegedly threatened a South Asian prime minister’s son with an IRS audit in an attempt to stop a Bangladesh government investigation of a close friend and donor of Clinton’s, The Daily Caller News Foundation’s Investigative Group learned.


Repeat with me, "Bill's Wife will never be president...".


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> The hits just keep coming. Further on Bill's Wife.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Hillary Aides Threatened Prime Minister’s Son With IRS Audit, He Says
> 
> *Repeat with me, "Bill's Wife will never be president..."*.


The report may be correct but the average American does not care one iota about that type of stuff. If they don' care that the Donald gropes every vajayjay that he can get his hands on, I really don't think they care about this either.

Probably not (never say never, it may one day come and bite you in the ass). She is probably getting too old and tired now of trying to become the first female President of the good old US of A.

Hopefully when a woman that Americans like, becuase of her brains, oratory skills and policies, she will become President and I will be one the many, many, many standing up and cheering.

She is going to have a tough row to hoe. She needs to be strong of mind, will and character, with good judgment and be likable without a checkered past. 

Oh but wait! She will be going up against the Donald and so all she needs, is good tits and ass and he will be completely memorized during debates, he may end up voting for her himself!

Maybe the next Miss America (actually the Miss America 4 years from now) should run against the Donald, she might stand a chance.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> She is probably getting too old and tired now of trying to become the first female President of the good old US of A.


Almost every day I am thankful for this.


----------



## Beej

The mess at Berkeley continues. The lawyer in the video is quite professional in dealing with a clearly messed up situation. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJJZrx1OmyU[/ame]

My take: Orwell was not taking as much dramatic license as I used to believe. Berkeley is dealing with an ideology that believes words are violence, and therefore actual violence in response to words is justified.

Unless you speak the correct words approved by...the people who define words as violence?


----------



## FeXL

I disagree. I believe there are millions of Americans who would love to see her prosecuted for any number of offences & have her ass tossed in jail. I certainly would.



screature said:


> The report may be correct but the average American does not care one iota about that type of stuff.


Jeezuz... You do go on, don't you? How does this further the conversation? And is there a problem with the word "vagina"? "Vajayjay"? Are we 12 here?



screature said:


> If they don' care that the Donald gropes every vajayjay that he can get his hands on...


FFS. Screature...this is not helping. 

So you don't like Trump. Fine. We get it. Can you find nothing of substance to be critical of, rather than this childish _ad hominem_ garbage? Call him names if you want, I don't care. Just keep it real...



screature said:


> Oh but wait! She will be going up against the Donald and so all she needs, is good tits and ass and he will be completely memorized during debates, he may end up voting for her himself!
> 
> Maybe the next Miss America (actually the Miss America 4 years from now) should run against the Donald, she might stand a chance.


----------



## Macfury

That sort of delusion is startling. Glad to see the tide is turning against this rubbish.



Beej said:


> The mess at Berkeley continues. The lawyer in the video is quite professional in dealing with a clearly messed up situation.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJJZrx1OmyU
> 
> My take: Orwell was not taking as much dramatic license as I used to believe. Berkeley is dealing with an ideology that believes words are violence, and therefore actual violence in response to words is justified.
> 
> Unless you speak the correct words approved by...the people who define words as violence?


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> I disagree. I believe there are millions of Americans who would love to see her prosecuted for any number of offences & have her ass tossed in jail. I certainly would.
> 
> *Jeezuz... You do go on, don't you? * How does this further the conversation? And is there a problem with the word "vagina"? "Vajayjay"? Are we 12 here?
> 
> FFS. Screature...this is not helping.
> 
> *So you don't like Trump. Fine. We get it. Can you find nothing of substance to be critical of, rather than this childish ad hominem garbage? Call him names if you want, I don't care. Just keep it real...*


That is hilarious. I like to go on??? You talk basically to yourself in at least a couple of threads that next to no one replies to and I like to go on!!!?? Seriously???

That is again hilarious, you are all about childish _ad hominem_ garbage whether it be HC or any other politician you don't like.

So don't try and pretend that you are taking the "high" road, you wouldn't even know how to get there. Your signature says it all and you are goddamn proud of it!

You are just a constant provocateur and **** disturber and that is fine but don't try and call me out for speaking my mind and saying "you do go on" when you go on and on and on and on ad infinitum in the "Anti-progressive thread.

You seem to think that you can talk all kinds of chite to other people, but when (at least I) talk strongly back to you, you say:



> How does this further the conversation? And is there a problem with the word "vagina"? "*Vajayjay*"? Are we 12 here?
> 
> FFS. Screature...this is not helping.


Not helping what? Your domination of a thread with "fake news"? See it is a double edged sword, one that you and Donald don't seem to appreciate.

Re: the use of Vajayjay. You know what it means, you ever heard of the word "slang"? How about pussy, twat, here is a whole list for the word vagina . Christ man you grow up! You want to talk about not "helping" drop the derogatory language by basically saying that my level of discourse is that of a 12 year old.

It is hard to keep it real when Trump is President and that is of his own making, because there is nothing real about the man or what he has to say. Ad hominem? You bet!! It is in the public record that the man is not fit to be the President of the USA.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Steve, provocateur is exactly the word. And it's working. On the rest of the Internet the synonym I believe is "troll." Sadly, I've discovered the only way to co-exist with this type of personality is not to engage if you can help it. He's very good at what he does. Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

OK, I thought that some broad observations would suffice. However, if you want it dissected, here goes:

My observation about you going on was _entirely_ about your statement:



> ...Donald gropes every vajayjay that he can get his hands on..


That's pure, undiluted bull$h!t & you know it. 

There is plenty to be critical of & you resort to this kind of childish garbage. You're better than that. Nor did it have anything to do with "talking to oneself". 

Period.

As an aside, I don't care if anyone responds to a post I make or not. I'm not trying to be the most-replied-to-guy on these boards. I know by watching the Views column that people are reading what I post and even if they don't reply I know many are tacitly agreeing with me. That's confirmation enough.



screature said:


> That is hilarious. I like to go on??? You talk basically to yourself in at least a couple of threads that next to no one replies to and I like to go on!!!?? Seriously???


I may call her Bill's Wife but everything I have posted about her is legitimate criticism. I challenge you to find otherwise.

Same goes for any other politician I have criticized. Go for it.

Played with a name? You bet. Guilty.



screature said:


> That is again hilarious, you are all about childish _ad hominem_ garbage whether it be HC or any other politician you don't like.


Again: quote a post of mine where my criticism is not legit. Show me the _ad hom_ attacks.

You may not agree with it, but that does not make it any less legitimate.



screature said:


> So don't try and pretend that you are taking the "high" road, you wouldn't even know how to get there.


I make no apologies for my signature. Told you that before. 

If it makes people smile, it's working. If it pi$$es people off, it's working, too. Don't like it? Go to Preferences & turn sigs off. You're welcome.



screature said:


> Your signature says it all and you are goddamn proud of it!


Go ahead. Speak your mind. Ain't trying to stop you. Just a helpful hint that frothing at the mouth lends nothing to your credibility.



screature said:


> You are just a constant provocateur and **** disturber and that is fine but don't try and call me out for speaking my mind and saying "you do go on"...


I explained above why I felt you were going on & on. Has nothing to do with how much you post about any topic. Post away.

If you have an issue with anything I've posted anywhere, I'd appreciate a reasoned response. Feel free. Or not. As you wish.



screature said:


> ...when you go on and on and on and on ad infinitum in the "Anti-progressive thread.


Nope. I just want it to be real & to make sense. The statement in question was neither.



screature said:


> You seem to think that you can talk all kinds of chite to other people, but when (at least I) talk strongly back to you, you say:


What fake news? Again, if you have issues with a post I make, let's talk about it. Don't let it sit there & fester until it comes boiling to the top like this one obviously has. 

Bring it. Level any legitimate criticism you want. Facts are required.

And, I've no idea what Trump likes & doesn't like. Don't know the man personally.



screature said:


> Your domination of a thread with "fake news"? See it is a double edged sword, one that you and Donald don't seem to appreciate.


Yes, I'm familiar with the slang term. In all the reports I read about Trump's comment, never once did I read the term, vajajay. It's certainly not the word he is reported to have used.



screature said:


> Re: the use of Vajayjay. You know what it means, you ever heard of the word "slang"?


The iron... You used the slang, not me. It's not the sort of term that an intelligent adult would use in mature conversation & it certainly is not accurate to the quote. It's beneath you. That is my issue with the use.



screature said:


> Christ man you grow up! You want to talk about not "helping" drop the derogatory language by basically saying that my level of discourse is that of a 12 year old.


Well, real or not, he's really there. For the next 4 years & probably more. 



screature said:


> It is hard to keep it real when Trump is President and that is of his own making, because there is nothing real about the man or what he has to say.


Really? Well, I'd certainly like to read more about that. Got a link to a scientific study detailing exactly why he's unfit to be President? Conducted by someone who has actually spoken to Trump?

'Cause if it's jes' the Court of Public Opinion, it's merely an _ad hominem_ attack. Don't waste my time & don't cheapen your own credibility...



screature said:


> It is in the public record that the man is not fit to be the President of the USA.


----------



## FeXL

Why, thank you, Freddie. I do enjoy dissecting your content-free posts...

Cheers!



Freddie_Biff said:


> He's very good at what he does.


----------



## Macfury

After trolling SINC for days in the weather thread, Freddie's feelings are all tender again. These paradigm shifts are coming like clockwork now.



FeXL said:


> Why, thank you, Freddie. I do enjoy dissecting your content-free posts...
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> OK, I thought that some broad observations would suffice. However, if you want it dissected, here goes:
> 
> My observation about you going on was _entirely_ about your statement:
> 
> 
> 
> That's pure, undiluted bull$h!t & you know it.
> 
> There is plenty to be critical of & you resort to this kind of childish garbage. You're better than that. Nor did it have anything to do with "talking to oneself".
> 
> Period.
> 
> As an aside, I don't care if anyone responds to a post I make or not. I'm not trying to be the most-replied-to-guy on these boards. I know by watching the Views column that people are reading what I post and even if they don't reply I know many are tacitly agreeing with me. That's confirmation enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I may call her Bill's Wife but everything I have posted about her is legitimate criticism. I challenge you to find otherwise.
> 
> Same goes for any other politician I have criticized. Go for it.
> 
> Played with a name? You bet. Guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> Again: quote a post of mine where my criticism is not legit. Show me the _ad hom_ attacks.
> 
> You may not agree with it, but that does not make it any less legitimate.
> 
> 
> 
> I make no apologies for my signature. Told you that before.
> 
> If it makes people smile, it's working. If it pi$$es people off, it's working, too. Don't like it? Go to Preferences & turn sigs off. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead. Speak your mind. Ain't trying to stop you. Just a helpful hint that frothing at the mouth lends nothing to your credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> I explained above why I felt you were going on & on. Has nothing to do with how much you post about any topic. Post away.
> 
> If you have an issue with anything I've posted anywhere, I'd appreciate a reasoned response. Feel free. Or not. As you wish.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I just want it to be real & to make sense. The statement in question was neither.
> 
> 
> 
> What fake news? Again, if you have issues with a post I make, let's talk about it. Don't let it sit there & fester until it comes boiling to the top like this one obviously has.
> 
> Bring it. Level any legitimate criticism you want. Facts are required.
> 
> And, I've no idea what Trump likes & doesn't like. Don't know the man personally.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm familiar with the slang term. In all the reports I read about Trump's comment, never once did I read the term, vajajay. It's certainly not the word he is reported to have used.
> 
> 
> 
> The iron... You used the slang, not me. It's not the sort of term that an intelligent adult would use in mature conversation & it certainly is not accurate to the quote. It's beneath you. That is my issue with the use.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, real or not, he's really there. For the next 4 years & probably more.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Well, I'd certainly like to read more about that. Got a link to a scientific study detailing exactly why he's unfit to be President? Conducted by someone who has actually spoken to Trump?
> 
> 'Cause if it's jes' the Court of Public Opinion, it's merely an _ad hominem_ attack. Don't waste my time & don't cheapen your own credibility...


Thank you for your detailed response, I will take specifics into consideration. However nothing I said was "beneath me" I can speak any patois that I choose depending on who I am talking to. You certainly are very familiar with slang and are not interested in speaking the Queen's English in my observation of your past posts especially to Frank. They were not directed at me but I read them, the fowl language and ad hominem attacks abounded. Frank was not innocent he did much the same. But if I speak to you like you speak to others here, I think that based on your history of posts what I have said to you seems pretty mild and fair. "Look at the man in the mirror". 

I thought you had thicker skin and that was the kind of discourse that were most interested in, certainly in a # of posts you were mostly belligerent and often insulting towards others, myself included. I am not going to respond beyond this because it will become a quagmire between you and me... Although that is not quite true, see how I did that, admitting when one is not telling the whole truth...

Just a quote from the "Debaters" on CBC One that I heard a couple a days ago about whether or not Canadians say sorry too often, the final comment from the comedian who supported the premise that Canadians say sorry too often was:

"Sorry, not sorry! Suck it!" 

If you want to further engage on the subject it would probably be best if we conducted it via PMs so as to not totally disrupt and derail the thread.

Peace out.

That is all I have got (well I actually have a lot more to say) but I am done with the subject here... Next....


----------



## Dr.G.

VIDEO: 'The Simpsons' needles Trump ahead of 100-day milestone | The Chronicle Herald

By executive order, the FCC in the US will be pulling the broadcast license of any station that plays this item.   XX)


----------



## Dr.G.

From 0-100: Presidents' first days come at varying speed | The Chronicle Herald

Well, at least he beats out Jimmy Carter's first 100 days ............ sort of.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> From 0-100: Presidents' first days come at varying speed | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> Well, at least he beats out Jimmy Carter's first 100 days ............ sort of.


Sort of? Hands down!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sort of? Hands down!


 The "fireside chat" wearing the cardigan did him in. :lmao: 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fqCS7Y_kME[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The "fireside chat" wearing the cardigan did him in. :lmao:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fqCS7Y_kME


Jimmy, meet Mike!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Jimmy, meet Mike!


"Mission accomplished." :clap:

Pres. Trump has now said that his initials, DJT, will now be placed before FDR re the first 100 days accomplishments ............. due to alphabetical order. Bill Clinton's first name was changed to William to keep with the alphabetical order format.


----------



## Macfury

It's a shame that any variation on Abraham still begins with the letter "a."



Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Trump has now said that his initials, DJT, will now be placed before FDR re the first 100 days accomplishments ............. due to alphabetical order. Bill Clinton's first name was changed to William to keep with the alphabetical order format.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's a shame that any variation on Abraham still begins with the letter "a."


Well, luckily there was a president Abraham Lincoln elected in 1860. Even luckier was the election of FDR in 1932. Paix, mon ami.

Any chance of making your an HST of LBJ fan?


----------



## FeXL

It wasn't the patois that bothered me. It was the complete absence of veracity of the statement in question...



screature said:


> However nothing I said was "beneath me" I can speak any patois that I choose depending on who I am talking to.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> It wasn't the patois that bothered me. It was the complete absence of veracity of the statement in question...


We shall have to agree to agree to disagree.

Peace out. 

Thank "god" we live in Canada and are free to think or believe whatever we want. We are truly lucky.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> We shall have to agree to agree to disagree.
> 
> Peace out.
> 
> Thank "god" we live in Canada and are free to think or believe whatever we want. We are truly lucky.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

You _honestly_ believe this to be true:



> If they don' care that the Donald gropes every vajayjay that he can get his hands on...





screature said:


> We shall have to agree to agree to disagree.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> You _honestly_ believe this to be true:


It is called hyperbole:

"hy·per·bo·le
noun
noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles:

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally."

It is in common usage in the English language especially when related to humor.

Get your knockers out of a knot, it could lead to health problems, i.e. you need to be less uptight. But trying to defend Trump would make anyone uptight, (probably true among his Cabinet), but another example of hyperbole.


----------



## CubaMark

*Seriously? The Republicant's are going to fail on their Health Care replacement for Obamacare again?* :lmao:

*New ObamaCare repeal bill on life support*

The tide is quickly turning against the new ObamaCare repeal legislation.

At least 21 Republicans have said they would vote no on the revised GOP healthcare bill negotiated by centrist Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.) and conservative Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.).

Those "no" votes include Reps. Patrick Meehan (Pa.), Ryan Costello (Pa.), Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), Jaime Herrera Beutler (Wash.) and John Katko (N.Y.), all centrists who had reservations about the previous ObamaCare repeal bill that was pulled from a floor vote last month because of a lack of GOP support.

ADVERTISEMENT
On top of that, a trio of usually reliable Republicans — Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce (Calif.), Adam Kinzinger (Ill.) and Mario Diaz-Balart (Fla.) — told the Hill that they were undecided on the new bill after saying they were yes votes on the earlier legislation.
“I’m absolutely undecided,” Diaz-Balart, a member of the GOP whip team, told The Hill. “I was a yes before, but there are a lot of red flags” with the revised bill.

It’s unclear how dozens of other Republicans would vote this time, but the number of Republicans publicly opposed or leaning against the bill is enough to raise doubts about whether the House would pass it in its current form.

Twenty-three GOP defections would be enough to kill House Republicans’ ObamaCare repeal-and-replacement plan, assuming every House Democrat votes against it.

** * *​*
GOP leaders are under pressure from the White House to hold a vote by President Trump’s 100th day in office, Saturday. But they say they won’t bring their revised bill to the floor until they secure the 216 needed GOP votes.

And right now, they acknowledge, they don’t have them.

** * **​
Many vulnerable Republicans are running scared. One moderate Republican was overheard in a House cafeteria this week telling an aide: “If I vote for this healthcare bill, it will be the end of my career.”

There are also significant doubts about whether the legislation would go anywhere in the Senate.

Several Senate Republicans have raised questions about the bill, making it unclear whether it could win 50 votes in the upper chamber.

And Senate Democrats have said that parts of the bill, including the new language, would run afoul of special budget rules the GOP is using to avoid a filibuster. That means those sections might have to be ripped out of the bill to prevent it from being dead on arrival in the Senate.
(The Hill)​


----------



## CubaMark

*The Buffoon-in-Chief strikes again!*

*Senators Leave White House Briefing On North Korea Unsure About Why It Took Place*

Wednesday afternoon, the entire U.S. Senate took a bus ride to the auditorium of the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, ostensibly to receive a high-level briefing from White House officials on North Korea, which has embarked on one of its regular displays of belligerence against its South Korean neighbors and the U.S. With the meeting concluded, those same senators have been released into the wild ― and based on their reactions, it’s not clear the meeting had any real purpose.

The meeting, which took place amid ratcheting tensions between Washington and Pyongyang, was billed as a classified briefing. 

* * *​
According to reports, while the meeting was originally scheduled to take place in a secure room at the U.S. Capitol, President Donald Trump requested that the Senate briefing be moved to the White House facility. The auditorium was to be temporarily transformed into what is known as a “sensitive compartmented information facility,” so that top secret information could be securely shared.

That announcement was initially greeted with a dose of suspicion: Did it truly presage military engagement with the rogue nation, or was it merely a publicity stunt staged on the fly as Trump’s “100 day” deadline loomed? By the end of the day, such skepticism did not look entirely unfounded. After dragging the Senate to the White House to gather with officials, those same officials then made a trip of their own ― back up to Capitol Hill to meet with members of the House.

But as lawmakers emerged from the Senate briefing, a common sentiment emerged: confusion about the point of it all.

** * **​


> GOP senator on N. Korea briefing: Briefing lacked "even straight answers on what the policy is regarding N. Korea and its testing of ICBMs"
> 
> — Ed O'Keefe (@edatpost) April 26, 2017





> "There was very little, if anything new," @SenBlumenthal tells me about N Korea meeting.
> 
> — Ed O'Keefe (@edatpost) April 26, 2017





> Blumenthal: "I remain mystified about why the entire Senate had to be taken over to the White House rather than conducting it here." (2/2)
> 
> — Ed O'Keefe (@edatpost) April 26, 2017


** * *​*
President Donald Trump made a short appearance at the briefing and delivered remarks that some members in attendance said sounded pre-scripted.

The White House added to the confusion over the trip by what it did next. 

Vice President Mike Pence ― along with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense James Mattis, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joe Dunford ― went to Capitol Hill to brief all the members of the House.

** * *​*
Ahead of Wednesday’s briefing, observers speculated that the Trump administration could be preparing to announce an aggressive new strategy against North Korea, possibly including a pre-emptive military strike. But the strategy laid out in the two briefings appeared to echo the previous administration’s approach: lean on China to put more pressure on North Korea and look for ways to squeeze North Korea’s struggling economy with additional sanctions. Engel said briefers did not bring up a pre-emptive military strike during the House briefing. 

Between the two briefings, the White House released a joint statement from Tillerson, Mattis and Coats (see link):

* * *​
If that statement is indicative of the tone and content of the meeting ― essentially re-asserting the status quo approach to North Korea ― then it’s unclear why the Senate had to travel to the White House to receive this information. As one Democratic Senate aide told HuffPost, the Senate “could have gotten the same briefing from the newspapers.”

(HuffPo)​


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo3fT0xPeHs[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo3fT0xPeHs


:lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

In the middle of an online forum, it's pretty difficult to tell. That's why I sought confirmation.

My knickers weren't in a knot. You were within one post of being written off as a complete & total idiot.

Jes' sayin'...



screature said:


> It is called hyperbole...


----------



## FeXL

Can't do much with the RINO's.



CubaMark said:


> The Republicant's are going to fail on their Health Care replacement for Obamacare _again?_


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> North Korea...


Yep, HuffPo is going to provide an honest take on anything the Trump Administration does.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Seriously? The Republicant's are going to fail on their Health Care replacement for Obamacare again?* :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *New ObamaCare repeal bill on life support*
> 
> 
> 
> The tide is quickly turning against the new ObamaCare repeal legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 21 Republicans have said they would vote no on the revised GOP healthcare bill negotiated by centrist Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.) and conservative Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.).
> 
> 
> 
> Those "no" votes include Reps. Patrick Meehan (Pa.), Ryan Costello (Pa.), Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), Jaime Herrera Beutler (Wash.) and John Katko (N.Y.), all centrists who had reservations about the previous ObamaCare repeal bill that was pulled from a floor vote last month because of a lack of GOP support.
> 
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> On top of that, a trio of usually reliable Republicans — Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce (Calif.), Adam Kinzinger (Ill.) and Mario Diaz-Balart (Fla.) — told the Hill that they were undecided on the new bill after saying they were yes votes on the earlier legislation.
> 
> “I’m absolutely undecided,” Diaz-Balart, a member of the GOP whip team, told The Hill. “I was a yes before, but there are a lot of red flags” with the revised bill.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s unclear how dozens of other Republicans would vote this time, but the number of Republicans publicly opposed or leaning against the bill is enough to raise doubts about whether the House would pass it in its current form.
> 
> 
> 
> Twenty-three GOP defections would be enough to kill House Republicans’ ObamaCare repeal-and-replacement plan, assuming every House Democrat votes against it.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * *​*
> 
> 
> GOP leaders are under pressure from the White House to hold a vote by President Trump’s 100th day in office, Saturday. But they say they won’t bring their revised bill to the floor until they secure the 216 needed GOP votes.
> 
> 
> 
> And right now, they acknowledge, they don’t have them.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> Many vulnerable Republicans are running scared. One moderate Republican was overheard in a House cafeteria this week telling an aide: “If I vote for this healthcare bill, it will be the end of my career.”
> 
> 
> 
> There are also significant doubts about whether the legislation would go anywhere in the Senate.
> 
> 
> 
> Several Senate Republicans have raised questions about the bill, making it unclear whether it could win 50 votes in the upper chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> And Senate Democrats have said that parts of the bill, including the new language, would run afoul of special budget rules the GOP is using to avoid a filibuster. That means those sections might have to be ripped out of the bill to prevent it from being dead on arrival in the Senate.
> 
> (The Hill)​



Perhaps one can work TOO LONG on coming up with good legislation. After eight years, perhaps the Republicans missed their window.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Can't do much with the RINO's.


Yep. The RINOs don;t even understand the meaning of the word "insurance." If you can delay buying it until you're sick, and then the insurance companies can't turn you down, then it is no longer insurance.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yep, HuffPo is going to provide an honest take on anything the Trump Administration does.


Precisely what I was thinking.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Which president ever claimed that their own policies represented "trickle-down economics"?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Mr. Reagan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump: 'I thought it would be easier' - CNNPolitics.com

At least he is being honest ...... albeit a bit late.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Mr. Reagan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Voodoo economics."


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Mr. Reagan.


Trickle-down economics - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics



> Speaking on the Senate floor in 1992, Sen. Hank Brown (R-Colorado) said, "Mr. President, the trickle-down theory attributed to the Republican Party *has never been articulated by President Reagan* and has never been articulated by President Bush and *has never been advocated by either one of them*.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Trickle-down economics - Wikipedia
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics


You got it SINC. "Trickle-down" is a concept invented by Democrats as a criticism of any economic policy they don't like. Reagan cut taxes broadly across all income groups, believing that the best way to help people was to allow them to keep more of their own money--not waiting for it to trickle down.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> You got it SINC. "Trickle-down" is a concept invented by Democrats as a criticism of any economic policy they don't like. Reagan cut taxes broadly across all income groups, believing that the best way to help people was to allow them to keep more of their own money--not waiting for it to trickle down.


Actually, the term was first used to attack Hoover's policies, and later was also used by opponents to Reagans.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Actually, the term was first used to attack Hoover's policies, and later was also used by opponents to Reagans.


I was iffy about the first use during the Hoover administration. I saw it as a pejorative for Supply-Side, but perhaps both uses are generic.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I was iffy about the first use during the Hoover administration. I saw it as a pejorative for Supply-Side, but perhaps both uses are generic.


I agree.


----------



## CubaMark

Ben Carson is a joke.

But the poor in America sure as hell aren't laughing. By the time the statistics on homelessness and poverty show the results of the Trump regime's handiwork, there's going to be a whole lotta suffering for no good reason...

Ben Carson Is Proving to Be the Bizarre and Incompetent Secretary of Housing and Urban Development We Expected Him to Be | Alternet

No quotes - you gotta read it all to believe it.... tptptptp


----------



## Macfury

I still don't know why the US federal government is in housing at all.


----------



## FeXL

Perhaps there is a use for the Dept of Education.

Exclusive: In response to Berkeley, Rep. Sean Duffy asks Betsy DeVos to take action on taxpayer-funded campuses



> ...Duffy is asking DeVos to provide him with "a set of specific actions the Department of Education can take to ensure that taxpayer-funded institutions of higher education create and support a fair environment that protects speech and fosters dialogue." He also requested "specific recommendations" for actions that Congress can take to ensure taxpayer-funded colleges and universities "foster an honest, equitable, and fair discussion of political issues and thought."
> 
> "I implore you to be mindful of these politically intolerant environments that our taxpayer dollars are funding throughout the United States, and to take any and all necessary action to prevent this systematic suppression of free speech," Duffy wrote.


----------



## FeXL

Surprise, surprise, sur...not really.

Report: Girl's genital mutilation injury worse than doctor claims



> Nagarwala, through her lawyer, has admitted that she did perform a procedure on the genitalia of two Minnesota girls, but that it didn't involve cutting. Rather, she claims, she scraped a membrane from their genitalia, wrapped it in gauze and gave it to the parents, who buried it as part of a religious custom.
> 
> A doctor's findings, however, contradict that claim. A juvenile protection petition filed on behalf of the victims in Minnesota, along with federal court documents, cite scarring, a small tear, healing lacerations and what appears to be surgical removal of a portion of her genitalia.


This...crap...makes my blood boil.

Related:

Female genital mutilation procedure 'hurted a lot,' child says



> A 7-year-old girl who underwent a painful genital mutilation procedure told federal investigators that after a doctor completed the process, she was rewarded with a piece of cake for "doing good."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I still don't know why the US federal government is in housing at all.


Essentially, expressed within the U.S. Housing Act of 1937 and later legislation including the founding of the HUD in '65, it's a Post-Depression admission that the U.S. domestic capitalist system generates more losers than winners, that the poor have no possibility of making it on their own without assistance from the State.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I still don't know why the US federal government is in housing at all.


I half agree with you here. My 3rd Rule of Government is that government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect. Don't see how the U.S. approach would be different from ours. Recent Ont Lib announcements for housing will only drive up the costs as it isn't really about ownership as "live-ship"


----------



## FeXL

'Cause the socialist system did such a bang-up job for the poor in the 20th century...

And that continues into the 21st. Venezuela, anybody?



CubaMark said:


> ...it's a Post-Depression admission that the U.S. domestic capitalist system generates more losers than winners, that the poor have no possibility of making it on their own without assistance from the State.


----------



## Macfury

Yes. That never made Constitutional sense to me on the federal level.



CubaMark said:


> Essentially, expressed within the U.S. Housing Act of 1937 and later legislation including the founding of the HUD in '65, it's a Post-Depression admission that the U.S. domestic capitalist system generates more losers than winners, that the poor have no possibility of making it on their own without assistance from the State.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, it's Bill Nye, the non-science guy!

Bill Nye Show: Penalize Parents For Having 'Extra Kids' In Developed Countries



> According to the Bill Nye show, parents in "developed countries" should be penalized for having kids.
> 
> Bill Nye asked a panel on his "Bill Nye Saves the World" Netflix show: "Should we have policies that penalize people for having extra kids in the developed world?"


More:



> Birthrates in most Western/European countries are literally negative. Africans on the other hand are having 4 to 7 kids each and are starving to death because they can't feed themselves without constant food aid from the West.


But the West is the problem.

Hey, we've got a meme for that!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Venezuela, anybody?


Are you completely unaware of the concerted campaign by the USA, via USAID and the NED, to support radical Right opposition groups, sabotage the economy, incur violence, etc.?

Venezuela has certainly made some mistakes, but nothing that justifies this kind of foreign interference in the domestic affairs of a sovereign country.

But that, as usual, will fall on the deaf ears of those who just love the Gringos and their penchant for overthrowing democratic governments in Latin America with which they have a disagreement (or when oil is involved).


----------



## FeXL

Serious? This is all the fault of the right? :yikes:

Have I got a river in Egypt named for you...

BTW, noticed you completely skirted the 120 million dead from last century.



CubaMark said:


> Are you completely unaware of the concerted campaign by the USA, via USAID and the NED, to support radical Right opposition groups, sabotage the economy, incur violence, etc.?


----------



## Macfury

Wahhhhhhhh! Would have been a socialist paradise if it weren't for those damn Whiteys!



CubaMark said:


> Are you completely unaware of the concerted campaign by the USA, via USAID and the NED, to support radical Right opposition groups, sabotage the economy, incur violence, etc.?
> 
> Venezuela has certainly made some mistakes, but nothing that justifies this kind of foreign interference in the domestic affairs of a sovereign country.
> 
> But that, as usual, will fall on the deaf ears of those who just love the Gringos and their penchant for overthrowing democratic governments in Latin America with which they have a disagreement (or when oil is involved).


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Serious? This is all the fault of the right?


I trust my sources more than your ideology.



FeXL said:


> BTW, noticed you completely skirted the 120 million dead from last century.


Nope - just not in the mood to play historical record ping-pong with you. Pretty sure we've been over this before.


----------



## FeXL

Your _sources_?

My _ideology_?

Oh, do tell...



CubaMark said:


> I trust my sources more than your ideology.


----------



## FeXL

Write this day down & don't let the bastards ever forget it...

Political Media Earns Poor Marks From Americans



> President Donald Trump, a frequent public antagonist of the press and the first president in 36 years to skip the confab, is also slightly more trusted than the national political media. *Thirty-seven percent of Americans said they trusted Trump’s White House to tell the truth, while 29 percent opted for the media.*


Woohoo!!!

Go, Trump!!! 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## FeXL

Here's an interesting twist...

The Democrats’ First 100 Days



> What do the Democrats have to show for these first months of the Trump era?
> 
> *Little.*


Sums it up for me.


----------



## Dr.G.

Guns banned from NRA's convention during Donald Trump's appearance | World | New

Boo!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blame it on Pres. Obama, who won this area of Atlanta.

"Guns are allowed in most public places in Georgia, including in the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta where the National Rifle Association is holding its annual meeting this weekend."


----------



## Macfury

It would be difficult to tell the good guns from the bad ones in this case.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It would be difficult to tell the good guns from the bad ones in this case.


True. A valid point. Leave all guns at home. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Are you completely unaware of the concerted campaign by the USA, via USAID and the NED, to support radical Right opposition groups, sabotage the economy, incur violence, etc.?


This is weak. The structural problems with what Chavez did were obvious, although $100 oil bought some time. This is a clear failure of governance.

Maybe outside interference accelerated the failure (and maybe half of those claims are overstated/fabricated) but, keep in mind, that many such countries have been interfering in U.S. politics for decades as well. Supporting various protest groups and aiding "revolutionaries" (useful idiots). "radical Left" to adapt your language. This is not one sided.

That's not to say the outside pressure is balanced in some way. Pretending that this totalitarian disaster is not primarily due to bad governance based on ideology is an ideological position (someone else is to blame, not my ideology!). 

Chavez's governance was terrible and this is the result.


----------



## Macfury

Amen! Could not have said it better.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Amen! Could not have said it better.


Pretty sure you would have said it with a trenchant one liner that got people's backs up. 

Your four liner would be appreciated, although I get why you do not bother. Reciprocity.

The lack of response on figuring things out versus "this link agrees with me, I'm right!" is surprising.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Pretty sure you would have said it with a trenchant one liner that got people's backs up.
> 
> Your four liner would be appreciated, although I get why you do not bother. Reciprocity.
> 
> The lack of response on figuring things out versus "this link agrees with me, I'm right!" is surprising.


I might add that Hugo Chavez spent almost no money modernizing the Venzuelan oil industry, instead counting on the overheated oil market to compensate for inefficiency. Maybe he really did give all of the cash to the poor (doubtful) but the result was that the antiquated domestic oil industry could never compete with the rest of the world when prices fell. Thanks to his regressive business policies, and disregard for concepts like "ownership", no corporate white knight was going to fly in and prop up the industry.

That anyone would think the CIA needed to move in to tip that steaming pile already teetering off the cliff is laughable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yup. Sure is good for Canada that Chump won the election. 










http://globalnews.ca/news/3413654/donald-trump-nafta-withdrawal/?campaign_id=A100


----------



## Macfury

I admire Trump for doing what's best for his country. Trudeau is always worried about what other countries want Canada to do.


----------



## Rps

Been, not to sound smartass, but is there any government in South America that is any good?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I admire Trump for doing what's best for his country. Trudeau is always worried about what other countries want Canada to do.


What ever your view is on The Donald, I don't think anyone can disagree with the intent of this statement. Now, he may screw stuff up but his America First is the right way to go for U.S. voters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> What ever your view is on The Donald, I don't think anyone can disagree with the intent of this statement. Now, he may screw stuff up but his America First is the right way to go for U.S. voters.



I don't think Trump is anywhere near as good for American voters as he claims to be. He's very good at breaking promises, which may be a blesssing in disguise, as many of his promises, like repealing and replacing the ACA and building a wall on the Mexican border (and making Mexico pay for it) were foolhardy and expensive propositions to begin with. And I'm sure his weekly tax-payer funded vacays to His place in Florida aren't helping the economy much—except for his own businesses, of course. It's not America First, it's Trump First. That's what you get with an overprivileged narcissist in charge.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I might add that Hugo Chavez spent almost no money modernizing the Venzuelan oil industry, instead counting on the overheated oil market to compensate for inefficiency. Maybe he really did give all of the cash to the poor (doubtful) but the result was that the antiquated domestic oil industry could never compete with the rest of the world when prices fell. Thanks to his regressive business policies, and disregard for concepts like "ownership", no corporate white knight was going to fly in and prop up the industry.
> 
> That anyone would think the CIA needed to move in to tip that steaming pile already teetering off the cliff is laughable.


Thanks for the added observations.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> Been, not to sound smartass, but is there any government in South America that is any good?


A fair point, it's a lower standard. Relative to Venezuela, possibly all of them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Ooh, the irony. 



> Secret Service: No guns at Trump NRA speech
> 
> April 27, 2017 - 05:25 PM EDT
> 
> By Mark Hensch
> 
> The Secret Service confirmed Thursday that those attending President Trump’s Friday speech to the National Rifle Association in Atlanta must leave their guns outside.
> 
> “Individuals determined to be carrying firearms will not be allowed past a predetermined outer perimeter checkpoint, regardless of whether they possess a ticket to the event,” the Secret Service said in a statement, as reported by CNN.
> 
> Federal law allows the Secret Service to stop guns from entering sites visited by those under their protection, even in states permitting open carry of firearms.
> 
> Trump will join other Republican speakers including Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, Florida Gov. Rick Scott and Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke at this year's NRA leadership forum at the Georgia World Congress Center.
> 
> The NRA was a major backer of Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, and he also addressed its leadership forum last year.
> 
> “We’re getting rid of gun-free zones, OK?” he told the crowd moments after the organization endorsed him for the presidency.
> 
> Gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety announced Thursday that Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) will help it lead a protest against the NRA this Saturday.
> 
> Lewis will join hundreds of protesters in a rally against the group, whose leadership summit is inside his congressional district.


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/330973-secret-service-no-guns-at-trump-nra-speech


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> A fair point, it's a lower standard. Relative to Venezuela, possibly all of them.


I would give Chile pretty good marks by SA standards.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ooh, the irony.


Ooh, the post duplication.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> What ever your view is on The Donald, I don't think anyone can disagree with the intent of this statement. Now, he may screw stuff up but his America First is the right way to go for U.S. voters.


If anyone disbelieves that he will build a wall or overthrow Obamacare, or any of a long list of promises, they're also mistaken. I give him full credit for doing everything inb the president;s power to do for pushing these agendas immediately. It may take him a little longer to whip the RINOs into shape.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If anyone disbelieves that he will build a wall or overthrow Obamacare, or any of a long list of promises, they're also mistaken. I give him full credit for doing everything inb the president;s power to do for pushing these agendas immediately. It may take him a little longer to whip the RINOs into shape.


Well, as I previously stated one can not fault his America First, but he is a poor President of a country. He may stumble into greatness, but I think the spin will be greater than the substance. For all of us who complain about governmental policy, unless you are in it, or have been, solutions are not as easy to find as problems. The issue is, try not to create new ones as you move through your term.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well, as I previously stated one can not fault his America First, but he is a poor President of a country. He may stumble into greatness, but I think the spin will be greater than the substance. For all of us who complain about governmental policy, unless you are in it, or have been, solutions are not as easy to find as problems. The issue is, try not to create new ones as you move through your term.


It would depend entirely on what you think the country should look like. And I don't believe America is better off looking like like some failing European welfare state as Obama envisioned.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It would depend entirely on what you think the country should look like. And I don't believe America is better off looking like like some failing European welfare state as Obama envisioned.


Well not so sure about France or Spain, but being like the U.K. or Germany wouldn't be a bad model to have.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well not so sure about France or Spain, but being like the U.K. or Germany wouldn't be a bad model to have.


They would be a bad model to have.


----------



## SINC

A good read and a harsh look at the mess Obama left to the world.

The global horror that Obama left behind - Macleans.ca


----------



## CubaMark

*Reports: Sebastian Gorka To Leave White House Following Outcry Over Extremist Links*










Sebastian Gorka, a deputy assistant to President Donald Trump who generated controversy for his alleged ties to a Nazi-aligned group, is expected to accept a new role soon outside of the White House, according to multiple reports.

A senior administration official told the Washington Examiner that Gorka, a national security adviser who was heavily criticized for having links to a far-right Hungarian organization, will accept a new role dealing with the “war of ideas” that focuses on radical Islamic extremism. 

Another official told CNN that it is unclear if Gorka would take another job within the Trump administration, but it seems more likely he will just leave the White House completely. 

** * **​
Gorka was previously the national security editor for Breitbart.
(HuffPo)​


----------



## FeXL

So sayeth the smug liberal...

Samantha Bee on CNN: There Is No ‘Smug Liberal Problem’



> TBS’s resident radical leftist Samantha Bee made an appearance on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday to speak with her friend/host Jake Tapper about her “alternative” White House Correspondents Dinner.
> 
> During their discussion, Tapper dredged up a New York Times opinion piece from September 2016 warning Hillary Clinton of her “Samantha Bee problem.” The column noted that not only Bee is the problem but all stuck up liberals as well.


----------



## FeXL

Richard Dreyfuss?!

Richard Dreyfuss On Free Speech At College: "Political Correctness Taken To A Nightmarish Point Of View"



> Dreyfuss also addressed the ongoing problem of free speech and debate on the U.S. college campus. Dreyfuss said attempts to stop speakers from addressing college students is an "intrusion into freedom of speech."
> 
> *Dreyfuss said the current situation is "political correctness taken to a nightmarish point of view."*


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

> During his candidacy announcement speech in June 2015, Donald Trump first proposed the idea of building a wall along America's southern border, adding that, due to his real estate experience, he was uniquely qualified for the job:
> 
> "I will build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me --and I'll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."
> (CBS)​





> Ahead of Donald Trump’s speech on illegal immigration Wednesday in Arizona, his campaign is reiterating that there will indeed be a physical wall along the U.S.-Mexico border as part of the plan.
> 
> “There’s going to be a physical wall, and there will be a physical wall on the Mexico border, and as we know, Mexico’s going to pay for it,” Trump campaign senior communications advisor Jason Miller said Tuesday on “Fox and Friends.”
> 
> A day earlier on the program, former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, a Trump supporter, had said Mr. Trump would build “a technological as well as a physical wall.”
> 
> Mr. Miller said “nothing has changed” in Mr. Trump’s stance on the issue.
> 
> “He’s been remarkably consistent,” he said. “He is going to stop illegal immigration. He’s the one candidate” to do it.
> (WashingtonTimes)​


*Trump's wall won't get a penny as Congress agrees $1trn spending plan*










Congressional negotiators reached an agreement late Sunday on a broad spending package to fund the government through the end of September, alleviating fears of a government shutdown later this week, several congressional aides said.

Congress is expected to vote on the roughly $1 trillion package early this week. The bipartisan agreement includes policy victories for Democrats, whose votes will be necessary to pass the measure in the Senate, as well as $12.5 billion in new military spending and $1.5 billion more for border security requested by Republican leaders in Congress.

The agreement follows weeks of tense negotiations between Democrats and GOP leaders after President *Trump insisted that the deal include funding to begin building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. Trump eventually dropped that demand,* leaving Congress to resolve lingering issues over several unrelated policy measures.

The new border-security money comes with strict limitations that the Trump administration use it only for technology investments and repairs to existing fencing and infrastructure,...
(Independent UK)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Boy, it's a good we marked his words. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

The wall is going to be on the budget in September.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The wall is going to be on the budget in September.


I doubt that the wall will ever be built. It is illogical, reactionary, and inefficient...... oh maybe you are right.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> What ever your view is on The Donald, I don't think anyone can disagree with the intent of this statement. Now, he may screw stuff up but his America First is the right way to go for U.S. voters.


Well, it depends. For example during war there have been many documented cases of individuals sacrificing their life to save others. So it is not always "me first", sometimes we think about the greater good and act accordingly.

Maybe the intent with some caveats... BUT, at what expense, who do we have to kill or screw over to make it happen, do we have to care about what we leave to out children based on our beliefs, actions and ideas. How many species of animals are we going cause to become extinct, like they never existed, etc...?

Sure.

The US, especially based on Trump's vision does not give a rats ass about anyone else in the world and that, sadly is true amoung many Americans. Let us not forget that he won the Electoral College but he did not win the popular vote.

Just like many Canadian PMs, including JT. He/His party won the greatest number of ridings but it was not a majority, it was plurality, in terms of the number of votes cast for each party...


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> What ever your view is on The Donald, I don't think anyone can disagree with the intent of this statement. Now, he may screw stuff up but his America First is the right way to go for U.S. voters.


Keep in mind the origin of the "America First" movement, Rp. Coming from a person like Pres. Trump, this can easily turn into the "wrong way" for America. Paix, mon ami.

"It is extremely unfortunate that in his speech Wednesday outlining his foreign policy goals, Donald Trump chose to brand his foreign policy with the noxious slogan "America First," the name of the isolationist, defeatist, anti-Semitic national organization that urged the United States to appease Adolf Hitler."

Trump's America First has ugly echoes from U.S. history - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Well, it depends. For example during war there have been many documented cases of individuals sacrificing their life to save others. So it is not always "me first", sometimes we think about the greater good and act accordingly.
> 
> Maybe the intent with some caveats... BUT, at what expense, who do we have to kill or screw over to make it happen, do we have to care about what we leave to out children based on our beliefs, actions and ideas. How many species of animals are we going cause to become extinct, like they never existed, etc...?
> 
> Sure.
> 
> The US, especially based on Trump's vision does not give a rats ass about anyone else in the world and that, sadly is true amoung many Americans. Let us not forget that he won the Electoral College but he did not win the popular vote.
> 
> Just like many Canadian PMs, including JT. He/His party won the greatest number of ridings but it was not a majority, it was plurality, in terms of the number of votes cast for each party...


Well said with valid points, screature. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> I doubt that the wall will ever be built. It is illogical, reactionary, and inefficient...... oh maybe you are right.


And, entirely effective...


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump Just Took a Weird Shot at Nikki Haley*










Amid the flurry of meetings Donald Trump has scheduled this week as his administration scrambles to bolster his presidential report card and control the narrative ahead of his 100th day in office, the president took a peculiar swipe at Nikki Haley, his ambassador to the United Nations. During a lunch with the Security Council ambassadors on Monday, Trump extolled Haley’s performance while simultaneously disparaging the U.N.—and threatening the former South Carolina governor’s job.

“I want to thank Ambassador Nikki Haley for her outstanding leadership and for acting as my personal envoy on the Security Council. She is doing a good job. Now, does everybody like Nikki?” Trump said, according to reporters present at the White House event. 

“Otherwise she could be easily replaced, right? No, we won’t do that. I promise you we won’t do that. She’s doing a fantastic job.”
(Vanity Fair)​
*See also:*

What Donald Trump's "joke" about Nikki Haley reveals about him CNNPolitics.com
Trump jokes (?) about firing Nikki Haley: ‘She could easily be replaced’ Washington Post
President Trump jokes Nikki Haley "can easily be replaced" - NY Daily News
Donald Trump joked that Nikki Haley "could easily be replaced" on United Nations | The Battery (Charleston)
Trump Quips that Nikki Haley, One of Four Women in His Cabinet, Can "Easily Be Replaced" in Front of Nikki Haley — Elle
Donald Trump Embarrasses UN Ambassador Nikki Haley In Open Meeting, “I Could Easily Replace You” — Truth Examiner


----------



## Dr.G.

'Why was there the Civil War?' Trump asks - World - CBC News

"Trump ruminated after lauding Jackson, the populist president whom he and his staff have cited as a role model. He suggested that if Jackson had been president "a little later, you wouldn't have had the Civil War."

"He was really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War. He said, 'There's no reason for this,"' Trump continued.

But Jackson died in 1845, and the Civil War didn't begin until 16 years later, in 1861."

Oops!!! Maybe Pres. Trump should speak to Frederick Douglass about the Civil War. FD was born a slave and when he escaped slavery, he went on to become a social reformer, abolitionist, orator, writer, and statesman.


----------



## Dr.G.

VIDEO: Trump on Civil War: Why couldn't they have worked that out? | The Chronicle Herald

Another interesting take of Pres. Trump's "grasp" of history.


----------



## CubaMark

Were I an American citizen, regardless of having voted for the Buffoon-in-Chief, I doubt I could withstand the embarrassment. As for Jackson being his "favourite" President in history, one suspects that his aides told him that it's something that the press always asks, so "you should pick one". He then asked one of his like-minded buffoonites to list off the old Prezes and a couple of words about each one, and upon landing on this "tough guy who got things done" and who was a strict constitutionalist, well, it didn't matter than Jackson was a Democrat he was a tough —but good— hombre!

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Were I an American citizen, regardless of having voted for the Buffoon-in-Chief, I doubt I could withstand the embarrassment. As for Jackson being his "favourite" President in history, one suspects that his aides told him that it's something that the press always asks, so "you should pick one". He then asked one of his like-minded buffoonites to list off the old Prezes and a couple of words about each one, and upon landing on this "tough guy who got things done" and who was a strict constitutionalist, well, it didn't matter than Jackson was a Democrat he was a tough —but good— hombre!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



Good old Andrew Jackson, who managed to die 16 years before the Civil War, despite his misgivings about it. Perhaps Trump should release his elementary report card along with his tax returns.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> Were I an American citizen, regardless of having voted for the Buffoon-in-Chief, I doubt I could withstand the embarrassment. As for Jackson being his "favourite" President in history, one suspects that his aides told him that it's something that the press always asks, so "you should pick one". He then asked one of his like-minded buffoonites to list off the old Prezes and a couple of words about each one, and upon landing on this "tough guy who got things done" and who was a strict constitutionalist, well, it didn't matter than Jackson was a Democrat he was a tough —but good— hombre!
> 
> :lmao:





Freddie_Biff said:


> Good old Andrew Jackson, who managed to die 16 years before the Civil War, despite his misgivings about it. Perhaps Trump should release his elementary report card along with his tax returns.


Well, even more telling is Pres. Trump's second favorite president -- William Henry Harrison. WHH had the shortest presidency of just 31 days back in 1841. Pres. Trump has been president for three times that length. :clap:

Luckily, he shall never get near the record of Franklin D. Roosevelt who had the longest presidency of 4,422 days from 1933–1945.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, even more telling is Pres. Trump's second favorite president -- William Henry Harrison. WHH had the shortest presidency of just 31 days back in 1841. Pres. Trump has been president for three times that length. :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, he shall never get near the record of Franklin D. Roosevelt who had the longest presidency of 4,422 days from 1933–1945.



Maybe Trump's just the "get 'er done" kind of guy and really doesn't like waiting.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe Trump's just the "get 'er done" kind of guy and really doesn't like waiting.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Is this real? It's hard to tell these days. That darn pesky Constitution he swore under oath to uphold.



> Donald Trump slams 'archaic' US constitution that is 'really bad' for the country
> 
> April 30, 2017
> 
> Donald Trump has blamed the US constitution for the problems he has encountered during his first 100 days in office.
> 
> In an interview with Fox News to mark the milestone, the Republican called the system of checks and balances on power “archaic”.
> 
> “It’s a very rough system,” he said. “It’s an archaic system … It’s really a bad thing for the country.”
> 
> Read more
> 
> Trump on if he may start war with North Korea: 'I don't know'
> 
> It comes after a torrid few months in which Mr Trump has faced a series of setbacks and embarrassments.
> 
> His introduction of a travel ban on immigration from seven mainly Muslim countries was struck down by the courts, forcing him to put forward an amended version.
> 
> Weeks later, his healthcare bill was withdrawn after it failed to secure sufficient backing from Republican senators.
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> For more news videos visit Yahoo View, available now on iOS and Android.
> 
> Those mishaps contributed to a sense of chaos that has seen Mr Trump’s popularity fall to unprecedented lows for a US president at this stage of their term. Mr Trump’s current ratings hover around 40 per cent; at the same point in his presidency, Barack Obama was on nearly 65 per cent.
> 
> 
> Speaking to Fox, Mr Trump admitted he was “disappointed” with Republican senators, despite claiming to have “great relationships” with many of them.
> 
> The US President also urged Americans to celebrate 1 May as “Loyalty Day” – a recognition of what he said were the US values of loyalty to "individual liberties, to limited government, and to the inherent dignity of every human being".
> 
> The tradition dates from the Cold War, when the celebration was established as a way to stop traditional May Day celebrations being used by left-wing organisations.
> 
> Despite the setbacks, Mr Trump insisted he had kept his promises to the American people during his first 100 days in office.
> 
> “One hundred days ago, I took the oath of office and made a pledge: We are not merely going to transfer political power from one party to another, but instead are going to transfer that power from Washington, DC, and give it back to the people," he wrote in an article for the Washington Post.
> 
> “Issue by issue, department by department, we are giving the people their country back. After decades of a shrinking middle class, open borders and the mass offshoring of American jobs and wealth, this government is working for the citizens of our country and no one else.
> 
> “In the past 100 days, I have kept that promise — and more.”


https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-t...c-173108185.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb


----------



## Macfury

I'm generally happy with the Trump presidency. He may not be doing as much as I want, but what he's doing is just fine. I supported nothing that Hillary promised, so all is good.


----------



## CubaMark

How can any reasonable person look at what Trump said this weekend - across a number of interviews - and not conclude that he's quite simply out of his depth, and moreso - out of his freakin' mind?

I'm not going to pull any quotes here - read it all for yourself, and listen to Trump in his own word(salad):

Donald Trump just gave two incredibly bizarre (and fact-free) interviews - CNNPolitics


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://youtu.be/h6oxvm9Q68Q


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Actually, those wiretapping claims are looking more and more likely each day. Waiting to see what the upcoming hearing nails down.



CubaMark said:


> How can any reasonable person look at what Trump said this weekend - across a number of interviews - and not conclude that he's quite simply out of his depth, and moreso - out of his freakin' mind?
> 
> I'm not going to pull any quotes here - read it all for yourself, and listen to Trump in his own word(salad):
> 
> Donald Trump just gave two incredibly bizarre (and fact-free) interviews - CNNPolitics


----------



## eMacMan

This is hilarious given that CNN is the official mouthpiece of the CIA et al.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cnn-president-fox-state-run-tv-162333629.html


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> This is hilarious given that CNN is the official mouthpiece of the CIA et al.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cnn-president-fox-state-run-tv-162333629.html


Not to beat a dead horse here, but CNN did more to elect Trump than than any other media outlet. Their saturation coverage was laughable and truly distorted the word news.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Not to beat a dead horse here, but CNN did more to elect Trump than than any other media outlet. Their saturation coverage was laughable and truly distorted the word news.


Thank you CNN & every other lefty news outlet that promulgated the bias, the slant, the outright lies & the fake news.

Moar please!!! Yer numbers are in the toilet but the flush hasn't happened. Yet...


----------



## Rps

FeXL a few of us here in ehMac have actually worked in the news media. I know it is the cause celeb, but why is everything that some disagree with Fake News..... you mean the right has never created any.....in the old days we called this bias. I really take exception with the idea that all news is fake if it goes against one's belief. Sometime we have to hear things we do not like, they may challenge our beliefs.....it doesn't mean they are fake. The trouble with social media news is it lacks certain keywords, such as alleged, or confirmed sources said. Missing those little words is the difference between news and fake news in my opinion. We must take care to be critical of issues, but remember our bias can be confirming....which I believe can be dangerous if not an all out assault on truth.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> FeXL a few of us here in ehMac have actually worked in the news media. I know it is the cause celeb, but why is everything that some disagree with Fake News..... you mean the right has never created any.....in the old days we called this bias. I really take exception with the idea that all news is fake if it goes against one's belief. Sometime we have to hear things we do not like, they may challenge our beliefs.....it doesn't mean they are fake. The trouble with social media news is it lacks certain keywords, such as alleged, or confirmed sources said. Missing those little words is the difference between news and fake news in my opinion. We must take care to be critical of issues, but remember our bias can be confirming....which I believe can be dangerous if not an all out assault on truth.



Once one has sipped of the Alternative Kool Aid, regular water just doesn't cut it anymore. There's a conspiracy theory lurking beginner every corner, and it's always the Liberal Democrats' fault.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> FeXL a few of us here in ehMac have actually worked in the news media. I know it is the cause celeb, but why is everything that some disagree with Fake News.....


Bravo! :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL a few of us here in ehMac have actually worked in the news media. I know it is the cause celeb, but why is everything that some disagree with Fake News..... you mean the right has never created any.....in the old days we called this bias. I really take exception with the idea that all news is fake if it goes against one's belief. Sometime we have to hear things we do not like, they may challenge our beliefs.....it doesn't mean they are fake. The trouble with social media news is it lacks certain keywords, such as alleged, or confirmed sources said. Missing those little words is the difference between news and fake news in my opinion. We must take care to be critical of issues, but remember our bias can be confirming....which I believe can be dangerous if not an all out assault on truth.


First off, I want to set the record straight: I don't categorically write off anything that crosses my particular belief system as Fake News. I'm _slightly_ more objective than that, thankyouverymuch.

Second, I'm sure the right also does fake news. It's as unacceptable to me as the left doing it. However, the left is making careers of it. It's why public opinion of American media, largely left-leaning, is swirling around in the porcelain bowl.

Third, I acknowledge & recognize the bias that certain words can generate. That is not what I consider Fake News. That is simply bias.

Fourth, I don't do "social media news". I'm not on FB, Twitter or any of the others. I will occasionally run across a Twitter post in one of the news aggregators or blogs I visit & post a link to it. As to blogs (of which I read some), I don't consider blogs as social media. However, I believe that some blogs carry more veracity than others.

Fifth, I define Fake News as outright lies generating a specific, intended response. In many cases these lies go viral & if, _if_, there is ever a retraction, it is lost in the noise and the lie is now _fait accompli_. Now, these lies can be directly intentional, by omission of facts (intentional or otherwise) or just plain ignorance of the topic-basic stupidity.

I am including a link to a website with 16 instances (hardly an exhaustive list) of what I would consider Fake News. None of the original stories were true and all of them fall under my definition above.

Sixteen examples of FAKE news from the American Media


----------



## FeXL

Coming from the hypocrite, that's hilarious!



CubaMark said:


> Bravo! :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Do you have something of substance to add to the conversation or are you going to merely uncivilly snipe from the sideline?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Once one has sipped of the Alternative Kool Aid, regular water just doesn't cut it anymore. There's a conspiracy theory lurking beginner every corner, and it's always the Liberal Democrats' fault.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Coming from the hypocrite, that's hilarious!


Hey! How'd that suicidal german muslim pilot story work out for ya in the long run, oh purveyor of all sources fake and hatemongering?

Hypocrite, thy abode is made of glass.... needest thou a pebble?

:lmao:


----------



## Rps

FeXL, thank you for your detailed and very civil and thought out response. I will respond later after I have reread and thought about your post. It is nice that we can have this discussion as I think we are at philosophical opposites but can approach a common understanding.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> First off, I want to set the record straight: I don't categorically write off anything that crosses my particular belief system as Fake News. I'm _slightly_ more objective than that, thankyouverymuch.


I would add that fake news is spread in two ways: deliberately, knowing that it is a lie; or, without any basic fact checking, in the hopes that it will ultimately prove to be true.


----------



## screature

FeXL said:


> *Thank you CNN & every other lefty news outlet that promulgated the bias*, the slant, the outright lies & the fake news.
> 
> Moar please!!! Yer numbers are in the toilet but the flush hasn't happened. Yet...


Every media outlet whether on MSM or blogs or wherever you get you "news" from has a bias. It is just a matter of what bias suites you best. There is no more "truth" in journalism, if there ever was, whether through MSM or the independent blogs that think they have it all locked down and know the "truth".

You don't know the truth and neither do they. They just purport a certain scenario based on little to no real information (mostly hearsay) and portray it as if it is the god's honest truth.

When it comes to politics, unless you are at the very highest levels (and even then sometimes), you do not really know what is going on or why.

If you want to believe that your alternative "news" sources have a greater grasp on the truth about what is going on in politics, go right ahead. That is your choice. But it still doesn't make it true or wrong for that matter.

Basically when it comes to high level stuff we, the public, are all in the dark. 

Confidential, Secret, Top Secret and beyond. I can guarantee you that there is no one reporting on any media that knows the real truth as to what is going on behind closed doors, including Snowden.

Cut and dry.


----------



## Rps

FeXL reporting works both ways. In your link the site highlights the story about the missing MLK statue in the White House, a Time report. What your link fails to report is that Time almost immediately retracted the story as explained in Nancy Gibbs Jan 24th retraction..... the link gave no indication of the retraction....bias?

As an addition, the story about the mass resignations as reported by Rogin is indeed slanted, however his article does contain a paragraph, well down in the article I will give you that, which states this is standard protocol, something the link states but does not appear to credit Rogin's article....which appears to be just as slanted as the link.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> FeXL a few of us here in ehMac have actually worked in the news media. I know it is the cause celeb, but why is everything that some disagree with Fake News..... you mean the right has never created any.....in the old days we called this bias. I really take exception with the idea that all news is fake if it goes against one's belief. Sometime we have to hear things we do not like, they may challenge our beliefs.....it doesn't mean they are fake. The trouble with social media news is it lacks certain keywords, such as alleged, or confirmed sources said. Missing those little words is the difference between news and fake news in my opinion. We must take care to be critical of issues, but remember our bias can be confirming....which I believe can be dangerous if not an all out assault on truth.


Absolutely Rps, I didn't read your post before posting my own. Now I realize my post is a bit redundant... sorry.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> FeXL, thank you for your detailed and very civil and thought out response. I will respond later after I have reread and thought about your post. It is nice that we can have this discussion as I think we are at philosophical opposites but can approach a common understanding.


This is what polite conversation online is all about. Thank you Rps.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I would add that fake news is spread in two ways: deliberately, knowing that it is a lie; or, without any basic fact checking, in the hopes that it will ultimately prove to be true.


Yes. I agree.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> FeXL reporting works both ways. In your link the site highlights the story about the missing MLK statue in the White House, a Time report. What your link fails to report is that Time almost immediately retracted the story as explained in Nancy Gibbs Jan 24th retraction..... the link gave no indication of the retraction....bias?


I think the big problem is that once such an unsubstantiated claim hits the laziest publications, all of that low-hanging fruit is instantly picked up and disseminated thousands of times. A single retraction does not cancel a thousand imprints--they rarely look for the retraction or post it.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I think the big problem is that once such an unsubstantiated claim hits the laziest publications, all of that low-hanging fruit is instantly picked up and disseminated thousands of times. A single retraction does not cancel a thousand imprints--they rarely look for the retraction or post it.


Absolutely true. Once any accusation is out in the wild it becomes the truth for some people.


----------



## Rps

MacFury and Screature the need to be first and "me too-ism" is a product, I think, of the cable news channels who's need for programming slants and distorts. In the old days no one would report , such as say CNN, broadcasting NBC is reporting......., without independent vetting this is just hear say.


----------



## Rps

macfury said:


> i think the big problem is that once such an unsubstantiated claim hits the laziest publications, all of that low-hanging fruit is instantly picked up and disseminated thousands of times. A single retraction does not cancel a thousand imprints--they rarely look for the retraction or post it.


+1


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury and Screature the need to be first and "me too-ism" is a product, I think, of the cable news channels who's need for programming slants and distorts. In the old days no one would report , such as say CNN, broadcasting NBC is reporting......., without independent vetting this is just hear say.


I think we're one step beyond that. The information often isn't even attributed to the originator. It's just presented as a standalone fact. Often, when I chek to see if such a story is true, I have to fight my way through 500 reiterations of the false story to get to an original transcript or something authoritative.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

"We need a good shutdown." This from a President whose party has the majority in the House, the Senate and now the court. Perhaps he is not so good at the art of the deal as he thinks he is. Perhaps the job is harder than he thought it would be. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

First, perhaps the guy levelling the criticism has no clew what a RINO is.

Second, why is it fine when Dems want to shut down the gov't and a travesty when the Reps do?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps he is not so good at the art of the deal as he thinks he is. Perhaps the job is harder than he thought it would be.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL, thank you for your detailed and very civil and thought out response.


Rps, your post was civil in its tone & you didn't get all up in my face like some of the shining examples of civility on these boards do.

I gave what I got. Fairly typical.

You're welcome.


----------



## FeXL

Anytime you want to start comparing numbers, just let me know.

Nearly everything you've ever posted in the Alternative Energy Thread is garbage. Any time you've ever defended socialism you belie the 10's of millions of people who have died under it. Any defence of AGW is a toss out.

That means the points you've attempted to make in hundreds of your posts are not based on science, and/or if applied would be harmful or hurtful towards society, and/or are completely & entirely impractical and unaffordable and/or are outright lies. That's just 3 threads.

And you have a problem with less than a handful of posts of mine?

Get a grip, hypocrite. Apparently more than a pebble has already hit you in the head. May want to get that looked at...



CubaMark said:


> Hypocrite, thy abode is made of glass.... needest thou a pebble?


----------



## CubaMark

You continue to believe - erroneously - that you have "won" arguments with me. My unwillingness to continue to engage you does not mean you are right - it means I can't stand beating my head any further against your very thick wall :lmao:

Now, back to the matter at hand...

More evidence Trump is a petty, little man....

*Argentina Backs Out of Honoring Jimmy Carter with Highest Award at Trump Administration's Urging* | Alternet


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You continue to believe - erroneously - that you have "won" arguments with me. My unwillingness to continue to engage you does not mean you are right - it means I can't stand beating my head any further against your very thick wall :lmao:


He's won most of them decisively, CM. You're the Python Black Knight insisting he's won...


----------



## Macfury

I think this is evidence that you're a petty little man, CM. The article credits an unnamed source--but also mentions that Carter's schedule probably delayed the award.



CubaMark said:


> More evidence Trump is a petty, little man....
> 
> *Argentina Backs Out of Honoring Jimmy Carter with Highest Award at Trump Administration's Urging* | Alternet


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I think this is evidence that you're a petty little man, CM. The article credits an unnamed source--but also mentions that Carter's schedule probably delayed the award.


It cites a few unnamed sources, actually. But fine - let's see how long this delay is... maybe Jimmy will receive the honour, maybe he won't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You continue to believe - erroneously - that you have "won" arguments with me. My unwillingness to continue to engage you does not mean you are right - it means I can't stand beating my head any further against your very thick wall :lmao:



Well said, amigo. You said it with diplomacy—more than I can manage most of the time. It's like that GD "poke" function on Facebook. Some people just don't get the hint that you're not that interested.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well said, amigo. You said it with diplomacy—more than I can manage most of the time. It's like that GD "poke" function on Facebook. Some people just don't get the hint that you're not that interested.


Freddie, when you take a dump in a public park, it's no talent for you to be diplomatic and disinterested around the event.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> It cites a few unnamed sources, actually. But fine - let's see how long this delay is... maybe Jimmy will receive the honour, maybe he won't.


And it also mentions the most likely explanation--Carter is too busy to go down there. It's not like this is the Oscar of diplomatic awards. So why are you posting this as though it's established fact? You're constantly demanding the same scrutiny of source material from others.


----------



## FeXL

Don't care who is interested & who is not. It ain't a popularity contest.

I will continue to eviscerate crap arguments on these boards as they are posted.

And yet, I am interesting enough for you to comment on. You couldn't ignore me on ignore & you can't ignore me now. Face it, Freddie: you're addicted.

Welcome to the dark side... beejacon



Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people just don't get the hint that you're not that interested.


----------



## FeXL

Have I got a river in Egypt for you...



CubaMark said:


> You continue to believe - erroneously - that you have "won" arguments with me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Eviscerated: you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Apparently, neither do you...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Eviscerated: you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Apparently, neither do you...


If an argument is gutless to begin with, I suppose it can't technically be eviscerated.


----------



## Macfury

House passes Obamacare evisceration Bill!


----------



## eMacMan

For those who were dumb enough to believe that the Ruskies leaked Hiliaries eMails. Yep it really was Hiliary who shot her self in the foot. Whether or not there was anything that would put her in jail, the presence of her classified eMails on Wiener's computer was damning enough to deserve exposure prior to the election. If it swayed the election it was her actions and those of the FBI that sank her boat.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-sa...ctober-letter-led-clinton-loss-155312113.html



> FBI Director James Comey gave an impassioned defense to lawmakers on Wednesday of his decision, just days before the 2016 presidential election, to inform Congress that the bureau was reopening its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state.
> 
> “I faced a choice,” Comey said in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. “I’ve lived my entire career by the tradition that if you can possibly avoid it, you avoid any action in the run-up to an election that might have an impact, whether it’s a dog-catcher election or president of the United States. But I sat there that morning and I could not see a door labeled, ‘No action here.'”
> 
> Comey said that on Oct. 27, the investigative team informed him that the metadata analysis of emails on disgraced former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s laptop — seized by the FBI in an unrelated investigation — showed thousands of Clinton’s emails on that device, possibly including those from her first three months as secretary of state, which had been missing until then. Weiner was married to Clinton’s close aide, Huma Abedin.
> 
> Comey said he then authorized the team to seek a search warrant.
> In deciding how to handle the potentially explosive information, “I could see two doors and they were both labeled ‘action,’” Comey told the committee. “One was labeled ‘speak,’ and the other was labeled ‘conceal.’”
> 
> To “not speak about it” to Congress — which had been assured months earlier that the investigation was closed — would have been “an act of concealment,” the FBI director concluded.
> 
> “So I stared at ‘speak’ and ‘conceal,'” Comey recalled. “Speak would’ve been really bad. There’s an election in 11 days. Lordy that would be really bad. Concealing, in my view, would’ve been catastrophic, not just to the FBI but well beyond. And honestly, if it’s between really bad and catastrophic, I said to my team, ‘We’ve got to walk into the world of really bad.'”
> 
> The FBI director sent his letter to Congress the next day, news of which leaked almost immediately.
> 
> “One of my junior lawyers said, ‘Should you consider what you’re about to do could help elect Donald Trump president?’” Comey recalled. “And I said, ‘Thank you for raising that. Not for a moment. Because down that path lies the death of the FBI as an independent institution in America.’”
> 
> Comey’s comments came a day after Clinton first publicly blamed his letter, in part, for her election loss.
> 
> “If the election had been on Oct. 27, I would be your president,” Clinton said at the Women for Women International luncheon in New York City. “I was on the way to winning until a combination of Jim Comey’s letter on Oct. 28 and Russian WikiLeaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me but got scared off.”


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Bill Clinton is no longer president. Why keep on about that?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Bill Clinton is no longer president. Why keep on about that?


And It remains a mystery why such a nice lady didn't get elected.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> And It remains a mystery why such a nice lady didn't get elected.


I'm not, never have been, a fan of the Clintons. But when it comes to public criticism of them, we should at least try to be accurate, no? Your meme above appears to be another version of the unverified claims of a meltdown following Clinton's interview with Matt Lauer: 

Hillary Clinton Threw a Tantrum with Matt Lauer?

Does your meme have a source?


----------



## SINC

Nope, just ran across it somwhere while surfing and saw it claimed to be part of a leaked email giving recipient and date as source.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> I'm not, never have been, a fan of the Clintons. But when it comes to public criticism of them, we should at least try to be accurate, no? Your meme above appears to be another version of the unverified claims of a meltdown following Clinton's interview with Matt Lauer:
> 
> Hillary Clinton Threw a Tantrum with Matt Lauer?
> 
> Does your meme have a source?


Yet the tasteless quote was mirrored in one of her eMails, found by the FBI on Weiner's laptop. That does give some credence to the original story despite the many whitewash attempts.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Yet the tasteless quote was mirrored in one of her eMails, found by the FBI on Weiner's laptop. That does give some credence to the original story despite the many whitewash attempts.


Great! All I'm asking for is a link to the source.


----------



## eMacMan

There was a youtube video back when this all happened. I did see it once and it has since been scrubbed. Make of that what you will. 

Of course anything can be faked, but that has been more the province of Lamestream media reporting on Syria, than of the Trump campaign.


----------



## Macfury

It's the kind of thing I expect would be true, but have never found a good source--or a leaked e-mail. The new book on the Clinton campaign verifies some of the hijinks on election night.




CubaMark said:


> I'm not, never have been, a fan of the Clintons. But when it comes to public criticism of them, we should at least try to be accurate, no? Your meme above appears to be another version of the unverified claims of a meltdown following Clinton's interview with Matt Lauer:
> 
> Hillary Clinton Threw a Tantrum with Matt Lauer?
> 
> Does your meme have a source?


----------



## eMacMan

At this point my gut is saying Hiliaries Russian gambit and the temper tantrums are both being used as diversions to distract from the subversion of the Donald by the super elite.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

All missing the point. Hillary Clinton did not sexually assault anyone. Donald Trump did and he bragged about it too. Bill Clinton paid his dues for sexual assault, and he is not the POTUS anymore at any rate. Trump the Molester is. Clear enough yet? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Who did Trump assault or molest? Name please?



Freddie_Biff said:


> All missing the point. Hillary Clinton did not sexually assault anyone. Donald Trump did and he bragged about it too. Bill Clinton paid his dues for sexual assault, and he is not the POTUS anymore at any rate. Trump the Molester is. Clear enough yet?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*George Will pens scathing attack on 'unfit' Trump for 'disorderly mind,' 'limitless gullibility'*

What can the public do about a President who doesn't seem to know anything? Keep talking about all of his mistakes.

Longtime conservative columnist George Will published an article Wednesday night in which he called upon the public to contact their representatives to express their concerns about Trump, who he says has a "combination of impulsivity and credulity" that makes him "uniquely unfit to take the nation into a military conflict."

"It is urgent for Americans to think and speak clearly about President Trump's inability to do either. This seems to be not a mere disinclination but a disability. It is not merely the result of intellectual sloth but of an untrained mind bereft of information and married to stratospheric self-confidence," he wrote.

He referred specifically to Trump's recent historical gaffes, where POTUS suggested that not only would Andrew Jackson have stopped the Civil War — even though he was dead for over a decade at that point — but that nobody really asks "why was there the Civil War?

* * *​
Will is a longtime, Pulitzer Prize-winning, conservative journalist. He was once editor for the National Review before moving on to a syndicated column through the Washington Post and in Newsweek.

While Will has a long history within the Republican party — even having helped Ronald Reagan prepare for a debate against former President Jimmy Carter — he famously left the party in 2016 over its Trump nomination and called for Republican voters to "make sure he loses" and then take back the White House in 2020. This clearly didn't happen.
(AOL)​


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Yep that is true, finally a good meme.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Bill Clinton is no longer president. Why keep on about that?


He isn't talking about Clinton, he is talking about Trump, by his own recorded words.

I am surprised that you did not get the reference. Maybe because you would rather forget about that interview.


----------



## Macfury

Then who did Trump assault or molest?



screature said:


> He isn't talking about Clinton, he is talking about Trump, by his own recorded words.
> 
> I am surprised that you did not get the reference. Maybe because you would rather forget about that interview.


----------



## Macfury

George Will has come unhinged since he's been ostracized from the Republican consultant class. He and Bill Kristol must be consoling each other over beers.



CubaMark said:


> *George Will pens scathing attack on 'unfit' Trump for 'disorderly mind,' 'limitless gullibility'*
> 
> What can the public do about a President who doesn't seem to know anything? Keep talking about all of his mistakes.
> 
> Longtime conservative columnist George Will published an article Wednesday night in which he called upon the public to contact their representatives to express their concerns about Trump, who he says has a "combination of impulsivity and credulity" that makes him "uniquely unfit to take the nation into a military conflict."
> 
> "It is urgent for Americans to think and speak clearly about President Trump's inability to do either. This seems to be not a mere disinclination but a disability. It is not merely the result of intellectual sloth but of an untrained mind bereft of information and married to stratospheric self-confidence," he wrote.
> 
> He referred specifically to Trump's recent historical gaffes, where POTUS suggested that not only would Andrew Jackson have stopped the Civil War — even though he was dead for over a decade at that point — but that nobody really asks "why was there the Civil War?
> 
> * * *​
> Will is a longtime, Pulitzer Prize-winning, conservative journalist. He was once editor for the National Review before moving on to a syndicated column through the Washington Post and in Newsweek.
> 
> While Will has a long history within the Republican party — even having helped Ronald Reagan prepare for a debate against former President Jimmy Carter — he famously left the party in 2016 over its Trump nomination and called for Republican voters to "make sure he loses" and then take back the White House in 2020. This clearly didn't happen.
> (AOL)​


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Then who did Trump assault or molest?


Who did Clinton?


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Who did Clinton?


You asked me to stay on the topic of sitting presidents, and told me that Clinton no longer mattered, so thiswon't derail my question. If Trump sexually assaulted/molested someone, what was the name of that person?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You asked me to stay on the topic of sitting presidents, and told me that Clinton no longer mattered, so thiswon't derail my question. If Trump sexually assaulted/molested someone, what was the name of that person?



Which one? There were several. I'm going to go with the ones who have pussies that he said he grabbed for starters.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Which one? There were several. I'm going to go with the ones who have pussies that he said he grabbed for starters.


What were the names of the women assaulted and how did they substantiate their cases?


----------



## screature

Kristin Anderson


----------



## screature

Freddie_Biff said:


> All missing the point. Hillary Clinton did not sexually assault anyone. Donald Trump did and he bragged about it too. Bill Clinton paid his dues for sexual assault, and he is not the POTUS anymore at any rate. Trump the Molester is. Clear enough yet?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What sexual assault?


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *You asked me to stay on the topic of sitting presidents, and told me that Clinton no longer mattered*, so thiswon't derail my question. If Trump sexually assaulted/molested someone, what was the name of that person?


No I didn't I think you are thinking of Freddie. In your first reply to FB's meme you suggested that Clinton sexually assaulted someone. Who was it?


----------



## Macfury

The Trump accusers have no proof or court decision/settlement. They're just personal accounts.

With Bill Clinton, we have his large cash settlement with accuser Paula Jones, which averted a trial.


----------



## Macfury

Here's the footage of Clinton groping a flight attendant in 1992 before he realized cameras were on:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Rps

screature said:


> Who did Clinton?


You could try the Arkansas phone book.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You could try the Arkansas phone book.


Yep. The allegations number in the dozens and the stories of Arkansas State Troopers assigned to his detail aren't pretty.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Here's the footage of Clinton groping a flight attendant in 1992 before he realized cameras were on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Unless her vagina is at her knees, there was nothing much to see.

Also Clinton knew pictures were being taken, the photographer was sitting right next to him.

This video basically shows nothing at all.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> You could try the Arkansas phone book.


Rps that post is simply beneath your intelligence level. Just crass baseless crap. Not funny in the least.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> The Trump accusers have no proof or court decision/settlement. They're just personal accounts.
> 
> With Bill Clinton, we have his large cash settlement with accuser Paula Jones, which averted a trial.


Still no conviction and just personal accounts. With Trump time will tell.

See the thing is just like it happens all the time with the rich and famous or anyone, if you are accused and especially if you go trial you guilty in the public eye. We just talked about this in another thread about "fake" news.

So if you have $$$ it is better to settle out of court rather than go through a public trial and expense and even if you are found innocent there will still be people that believe you are guilty.

Better to settle with the accuser, who it seems if they accepted a cash out of court settlement weren't all that interested in justice being served. They just saw a cash grab and took it. 

Same thing happened to Michael Jackson and countless other people whether they be rich and famous or not.

Where there is smoke does not mean there is fire, sometimes it is just smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Rps

screature said:


> Rps that post is simply beneath your intelligence level. Just crass baseless crap. Not funny in the least.


Actually Screature it is probably closer to the truth than you might think.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Actually Screature it is probably closer to the truth than you might think.


Yep, pretty close to the mark Rps. And for what's it's worth, I spewed coffee out my nose!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> What sexual assault?



In Bill Clinton's case, I believe it was the Monica Lewinski affair that got most of the press coverage. But technically, I suppose that was two consenting adults, wasn't it? Other cases were allegations. I don't think Bill's got anything over on Donald in any case, who remains the current POTUS until he is removed from office.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

screature said:


> Still no conviction and just personal accounts. With Trump time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing is just like it happens all the time with the rich and famous or anyone, if you are accused and especially if you go trial you guilty in the public eye. We just talked about this in another thread about "fake" news.
> 
> 
> 
> So if you have $$$ it is better to settle out of court rather than go through a public trial and expense and even if you are found innocent there will still be people that believe you are guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> Better to settle with the accuser, who it seems if they accepted a cash out of court settlement weren't all that interested in justice being served. They just saw a cash grab and took it.
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing happened to Michael Jackson and countless other people whether they be rich and famous or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Where there is smoke does not mean there is fire, sometimes it is just smoke and mirrors.



Point well made, Screature. Rarely will you see criminal convictions among the rich and famous. Donald Trump is both of these things unless his tax returns prove differently. The funny thing is, as soon as one begins to talk of Donald Trump's indiscretions, MF will throw in a non-sequitur back to Bill Clinton's affairs back in the 1990's. the two things really have nothing to with each other. It's just another one of MF's red herrings.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Yep, pretty close to the mark Rps. And for what's it's worth, I spewed coffee out my nose!



I'll bet that stung a little.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This is a statement I can get behind. Trump is a small-hearted vengeful man. He still cannot in his tangerine mind accept losing the popular vote in the five months ago, and he would like to erase every accomplishment that Obama has made, even the ones that were good for people. In short, he behaves as a spoilt child who takes his bat and ball and goes to Florida if he can't have his way. His absense at the White House correspondent's dinner is just another shining example of how he cannot handle any form of criticism. I suspect he does have the intelligence to come up with a witty comeback. He is no Obama.


----------



## Macfury

Obamacare was already in a death spriral. Better that Trump replaced it with something else than leave Americans in the lurch when it collapsed like a rotten canatloupe. That Obama legislation is completely erased from the records is also a good thing. He's almost gone, so it isn't in vain!

Obama's lasting legacy will be doubling debt to $18 trillion without a single thing to show for it. 

A mainstream candidate can go to the correspondents dinner and receive good-natured ribbing. The unhinged outpouring of vileness from America's sorest losers would require Trump to sit there and listen to them rant for two hours. He made a good decision to stay away.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'll bet that stung a little.


Not if you drink the good stuff.


----------



## Beej

A quick summary of the current free speech conflict. A newish (maybe 60s/70s) ideological authority is against verbal dissent. 

The lies we were told about who would silence free speech - Chicago Tribune



> Conservatives would take away our right to speak our minds, and use the power of government to silence dissent. The right would intimidate our teachers and professors, and coerce the young.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> A quick summary of the current free speech conflict. A newish (maybe 60s/70s) ideological authority is against verbal dissent.
> 
> The lies we were told about who would silence free speech - Chicago Tribune


That's bang on.


----------



## Macfury

Hey, Freddie--do the JFK and LBJ lines next!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey, Freddie--do the JFK and LBJ lines next!



How do you feel about this direct quote from the current President? You conveniently missed that step. I don't know enough about American history to quote the other two. Did they say something even worse? Do tell.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you feel about this direct quote from the current President? You conveniently missed that step. I don't know enough about American history to quote the other two. Did they say something even worse? Do tell.


I'm not a big fan of vulgarity. I would prefer Trump had not spoken those words, but it does not change my opinion of whether he should be president instead of Hillary.

Johnson and JFK were blistering, however, given the time period, most of the quotes were reported rather than recorded.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm not a big fan of vulgarity. I would prefer Trump had not spoken those words, but it does not change my opinion of whether he should be president instead of Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> Johnson and JFK were blistering, however, given the time period, most of the quotes were reported rather than recorded.



Are you more offended by Trump's vulgar words or the actions they refer to?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Are you more offended by Trump's vulgar words or the actions they refer to?


I don't know that they refer to any real action. If I knew one way or another, I might be more offended by the action than the words.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't know that they refer to any real action. If I knew one way or another, I might be more offended by the action than the words.



Do you think he's lying about wanting to **** the married woman he refers to as well as his ability to grab women's pussies with impunity? Why would you believe everything else he says and yet doubt this particular quote that he did not deny saying?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think he's lying about wanting to **** the married woman he refers to as well as his ability to grab women's pussies with impunity? Why would you believe everything else he says and yet doubt this particular quote that he did not deny saying?


I don't know that he wants to and I don't believe everything he says. I know that I support many of his actions as president.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, that dreaded Obamacare....... funny who the House and Senate didn't remove their healthcare packages which are a virtual match to Obamacare........


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MacFury, that dreaded Obamacare....... funny who the House and Senate didn't remove their healthcare packages which are a virtual match to Obamacare........


They aren't matches to Obamacare--they exempted themselves from Obamacare straight off the top. Who in government would put up with a $10,000 annual insurance policy with a $10,000 deductible?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> They aren't matches to Obamacare--they exempted themselves from Obamacare straight off the top. Who in government would put up with a $10,000 annual insurance policy with a $10,000 deductible?


I think you will find theyxempted themselves because the already had it. Obamacare was really Medicaid for those under the threshold......elected government already had that witho the threshold"...in a way, they were hippo-critics.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think you will find theyxempted themselves because the already had it. Obamacare was really Medicaid for those under the threshold......elected government already had that witho the threshold"...in a way, they were hippo-critics.


What they have is a tailor-made health exchange and a massive subsidy to pay for the best plan available.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> What they have is a tailor-made health exchange and a massive subsidy to pay for the best plan available.


You mean government funded Obamacare. This is a classic case of those who make the rules can't police themselves. Policy makers will never bring in policies which would hurt themselves.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> You mean government funded Obamacare. This is a classic case of those who make the rules can't police themselves. Policy makers will never bring in policies which would hurt themselves.


If the government gives you enough money to buy the gold-plated policy you want, it doesn't matter if that policy is offered in a totally free market or on an exchange.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> You mean government funded Obamacare. This is a classic case of those who make the rules can't police themselves. Policy makers will never bring in policies which would hurt themselves.



That's what happens when the people vote for foxes to run the henhouse.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Actually, he won't.

According to the _Immigration Act_: 



> No person shall be granted admission who is a member of any of the following classes:
> (a) persons who are suffering from any disease, disorder, disability or other health impairment as a result of the nature, severity or probable duration of which, in the opinion of a medical officer concurred in by at least one other medical officer... their admission would cause or might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demands on health or social services.


----------



## CubaMark

_Worth reading in its entirety:_

*Why the Sally Yates Hearing Was Very Bad News for the Trump White House* | Mother Jones


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _Worth reading in its entirety:_
> 
> *Why the Sally Yates Hearing Was Very Bad News for the Trump White House* | Mother Jones


That's going to hit the Mother Jones readers right in the gut!


----------



## CubaMark

*35 of 37 economists say Donald Trump is wrong about his next biggest policy — the other two misread the question
*
President Donald Trump's administration says his tax cut will pay for itself. It turns out it's really hard to find an economist who agrees.

The University of Chicago's Booth School of Business regularly polls economists on controversial questions. In a survey the school published last week on Trump's tax plans, only two out of the 37 economists that responded said that the cuts would stimulate the economy enough to cancel out the effect on total tax revenue.

Those two economists now both say they made a mistake, and that they misunderstood the question.

"I screwed up on that one," said one of those two economists, Kenneth Judd, when asked about his response to Trump's tax claim. "I meant to say that this is a horrible idea, a bad idea - no chance in hell."

The other respondent who said that Trump's tax cuts would pay for themselves was Bengt Holmström of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who confirmed in an email to The Washington Post that he had also misread the question.

Besides Judd and Holmström, another 35 economists said that the tax cuts would not finance themselves, and five more did not answer the question.

In total, there is not one economist in the Chicago poll who believes that Trump's cuts would pay for themselves, suggesting his administration might not be able to deliver on a crucial promise.

(Independent UK)​


----------



## Macfury

Those economists were really bullish on the Obama stimulus and QE as well. Who believes them at this point?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Shades of Oct. 20th, 1973, when Pres. Nixon fired Archibald Cox. Now, Pres. Trump has fired FBI director Comey.

Where is J. Edgar Hoover when we need him??????


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump fires FBI Director Comey! History sometimes repeats AND rhymes.

"And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune,
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long,
And the forests will echo with laughter."
~Led Zeppelin


----------



## Macfury

Shades of Bill Clinton firing William Sessions would be the most recent comparison. 

Good riddance to Comey. Trump should have turfed him on assuming office.



Dr.G. said:


> Shades of Oct. 20th, 1973, when Pres. Nixon fired Archibald Cox. Now, Pres. Trump has fired FBI director Comey.
> 
> Where is J. Edgar Hoover when we need him??????


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> "...And the forests will echo with laughter."
> ~Led Zeppelin


You heard me, then!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Shades of Bill Clinton firing William Sessions would be the most recent comparison.
> 
> Good riddance to Comey. Trump should have turfed him on assuming office.


Hey, he did it for Bill's Wife. She lost because of the re-opening of her case... 

Hilarious.

h/t SDA.


----------



## CubaMark

*So..... Who's next?* :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *So..... Who's next?* :lmao:



Exactly.


----------



## Macfury

I think it's the legacy of the worried looking guy in the bottom left corner...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Comey.

Exclusive–James Comey ‘Threw the Reputation of the FBI Under the Bus,’ Says Bureau’s Former Assistant Director



> The former assistant director of the FBI tells Breitbart News that President Donald Trump fired bureau director James Comey for legitimate reasons.
> 
> “He was fired for cause in my view,” James Kallstrom informs Breitbart News. “When the referral came to the bureau close to a year ago, Comey knew at that point, if not soon after, that the Justice Department had no interest in conducting a criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton. They would never approve a grand jury and they would never approve an indictment.”


The only thing that could possibly make this any better is if a _real_ investigation was re-opened.


----------



## Dr.G.

Sources: James Comey sought resources for Russia probe - CNNPolitics.com

In my opinion, these are grounds for firing Comey. This money could be better spent on building a huge wall next to Mexico, or to provide more security for Trump when he goes golfing. Hard financial times require hard financial decisions, and as Pres. Truman once said, "The buck stops here."


----------



## Macfury

Comey has been asked repeatedly to provide one piece of evidence that would support devoting more resources to the probe and has simply stammered that he has nothing. Could an organization the size of the FBI not complete an investigation within its current massive budget? He could spend years looking for purple kangaroos, given enough funding.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Comey has been asked repeatedly to provide one piece of evidence that would support devoting more resources to the probe and has simply stammered that he has nothing. Could an organization the size of the FBI not complete an investigation within its current massive budget? He could spend years looking for purple kangaroos, given enough funding.


True. Everyone but the military should see their funding cut. Do away with the Dept. of Energy, Dept. of Education, HUD, EPA, et al, and there would be enough funds for part of the wall, and a security team for each of his family members. 

I never saw a purple kangaroo
And I never hope to see one.
But I can tell you anyhow
That I would rather see than be one.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> A quick summary of the current free speech conflict. A newish (maybe 60s/70s) ideological authority is against verbal dissent.
> 
> The lies we were told about who would silence free speech - Chicago Tribune


Take this whole article and sit it on it's head and wherever left is written replace right and it would be equally true. Bashing one side or the other, in general is not the way to go. Now bashing an incompetent leader and government, that is fair game IMO.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Actually Screature it is probably closer to the truth than you might think.


How would *you* know? It seems that the law and judiciary do not see it that way. Do you have some knowledge that they do not have? If so you should present it to them as soon as you can so that justice can be served. 

So no it isn't, it is a gross hyperbole and you know it. Once again as an educated, intelligent and articulate man I think that post is beneath you. We all do it some times just to be trite, myself included. But nonetheless it was a gross exaggeration and not funny at all.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Take this whole article and sit it on it's head and wherever left is written replace right and it would be equally true.


I don't agree at all.


----------



## Macfury

Another failed meme. If that were true, then Yates would be lying in her testimony that Trump was NOT under surveillance. Preet Bharara was not investigating Trump--his big investigation targeted Democrat NY State Governor Andrew Cuomo. Do a little research, huh?


----------



## Dr.G.

The Nixon Library has requested that the media stop using the terms "Nixonian" and "Watergate" to describe what took place yesterday.

So, now we all should just call the Comey firing as Trumpgate and make everyone happy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The Nixon Library has requested that the media stop using the terms "Nixonian" and "Watergate" to describe what took place yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> So, now we all should just call the Comey firing as Trumpgate and make everyone happy.



It's like Trump is giving Nixon a bad name.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> The Nixon Library has requested that the media stop using the terms "Nixonian" and "Watergate" to describe what took place yesterday.


Just call it Clintonian then.


----------



## Rps

Well that Donald is no comey come lately.....


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I don't agree at all.


That's nothing new. I didn't expect you to agree.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> That's nothing new. I didn't expect you to agree.


Right, but at the very least I will make my disagreement known. Most of the calls against free speech are coming from the "progressive" left. Almost none from the right.


----------



## Rps

Screature you are correct we have no facts other than what Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Eileen Wellstone, Christy Zercher, Caroline Moffat, Helen Dody, Rebecca Brown and six or seven other accusers have to say.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Right, but at the very least I will make my disagreement known. Most of the calls against free speech are coming from the "progressive" left. Almost none from the right.


And because you live in Canada in 2017 that is your right.

It depends on what time you are talking about and where you are in the world, there are plenty of examples of the "right" shutting down or discrediting free speech historically and even now.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Screature you are correct we have no facts other than what Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Eileen Wellstone, Christy Zercher, Caroline Moffat, Helen Dody, Rebecca Brown and six or seven other accusers have to say.


As you said, "we have no facts". Accusers yes, Clinton suspect yes. Proof, none.

See, despite the court of public opinion until a person has their day in court and is found guilty by a jury of their peers, in terms of the law, they are innocent. 

So you can believe whatever you want to believe, but the law and judiciary does not have enough evidence to support a trial in which they would find him guilty. If they did they would have done it by now.

If you wish that the court of public opinion should be the judge jury and executioner, then you should live in the times of the witch hunts in Salem, or maybe during the Inquisition. Maybe you would feel more comfortable in those times rather than with our current system of jurisprudence.


----------



## Rps

screature said:


> As you said, "we have no facts". Accusers yes, Clinton suspect yes. Proof, none.
> 
> See, despite the court of public opinion until a person has their day in court and is found guilty by a jury of their peers, in terms of the law, they are innocent.
> 
> So you can believe whatever you want to believe, but the law and judiciary does not have enough evidence to support a trial in which they would find him guilty. If they did they would have done it by now.
> 
> If you wish that the court of public opinion should be the judge jury and executioner, then you should live in the times of the witch hunts in Salem, or maybe during the Inquisition. Maybe you would feel more comfortable in those times rather than with our current system of jurisprudence.


Well stated, but were there's smoke there's fire once, I agree.....10 times I begin to wonder....on this I accept we will agree to disagree.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> It's like Trump is giving Nixon a bad name.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well that Donald is no comey come lately.....


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Well stated, *but were there's smoke there's fire once, I agree.*....10 times I begin to wonder....on this I accept we will agree to disagree.


As I stated in post #13298:



> Where there is smoke does not mean there is fire, sometimes it is just smoke and mirrors.


I'm not saying the man is a Saint, but until he is judged by irrefutable evidence to be guilty of what his accusers say that he did, I will not vilify him either. 

Innocent until proven guilty seems to be something that has been lost as an ideal in law ever since it was put into place, at least by the public and actually by many officers of the law, prosecutors and even judges. Innocent until proven guilty really doesn't exist in our society, we just try to pretend that it does, at least at a societal level. 

We had this same sort of discussion in another thread about the media if you recall.

And yes we shall have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Beej

screature said:


> Take this whole article and sit it on it's head and wherever left is written replace right and it would be equally true. Bashing one side or the other, in general is not the way to go.


I don't see much that's apt here.

Pre maybe the mid 1990s, the groups threatening expression most, in my experience, were right wing. Christian conservatives, usually. Unlikely a random occurrence, given the importance of free speech in the U.S. civil rights fight a couple decades earlier. Now, action to restrict expression is clearly dominated by the left, but not exclusive to the left.

There being two sides does not make those sides inherently balanced or interchangeable for criticism, particularly when looking at specific times. Places are important as well.


----------



## screature

Beej said:


> I don't see much that's apt here.
> 
> Pre maybe the mid 1990s, the groups threatening expression most, in my experience, were right wing. Christian conservatives, usually. Unlikely a random occurrence, given the importance of free speech in the U.S. civil rights fight a couple decades earlier. Now, action to restrict expression is clearly dominated by the left, but not exclusive to the left.
> 
> There being two sides does not make those sides inherently balanced or interchangeable for criticism, particularly when looking at specific times. Places are important as well.


I think that is what I said.


----------



## CubaMark

*What on earth is happening in the White House? I'm caught between laughing hysterically and just standing with my mouth agape, gobsmacked by the spectacle of it all....*

*Sean Spicer hid in some bushes to avoid Comey questions.*

The Washington Post’s Jenna Johnson has an interesting look at how the White House’s communications staff responded to word that FBI Director James Comey had been fired on Tuesday night. From the Post:

_Spicer had wanted to drop the bombshell news in an emailed statement, but it was not transmitting quickly enough, so he ended up standing in the doorway of the press office around 5:40 p.m. and shouting a statement to reporters who happened to be nearby. He then vanished, with his staff locking the door leading to his office. The press staff said that Spicer might do a briefing, then announced that he definitely wouldn't say anything more that night._​
As commentary on Comey’s firing began intensifying on the Hill and in the press, Johnson writes that Spicer, deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Kellyanne Conway made their way to TV camera crews. Initially, Sanders and Conway spoke to the press while Spicer, quite literally, hid in some bushes nearby:

_After Spicer spent several minutes hidden in the bushes behind these sets, Janet Montesi, an executive assistant in the press office, emerged and told reporters that Spicer would answer some questions, as long as he was not filmed doing so. Spicer then emerged.

“Just turn the lights off. Turn the lights off,” he ordered. “We'll take care of this. ... Can you just turn that light off?”

Spicer got his wish and was soon standing in near darkness between two tall hedges, with more than a dozen reporters closely gathered around him._​
According to Johnson, Spicer claimed to reporters that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein had launched a probe of Comey completely independently and that Trump had been unaware of its existence until Tuesday. Spicer told reporters that he didn’t know whether Attorney General Jeff Sessions had been involved, whether Trump had spoken with Rosenstein about the findings in his memo about Comey, whether Rosenstein was involved in a larger probe of the FBI, or when Trump and Comey had last spoken. After 10 minutes, he left. “Spicer walked with his head down,” Johnson writes. 

“As he approached the door, aides warned reporters not to get too close. He then disappeared inside, enveloped by the warmly lit White House.”

Incidentally, Sanders will run Wednesday's White House press briefing, not Spicer.

(Slate)​
*I can't wait to see what Melissa McCarthy does with this one... the SNL writers are sure as hell being spoiled this year. This stuff writes itself!*


----------



## CubaMark

_*And then there's this...*_

*The strange Oval Office meeting between Trump, Lavrov and Kislyak*









President Trump, right, meets with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov at the White House on May 10. (Russian Foreign Ministry/AP)​
It was all smiles Wednesday when President Trump welcomed Russia’s foreign minister and U.S. ambassador to the White House.

Of course, we only know that thanks to photos from Russia's state news agency. Their photographer was the only one allowed in the meeting, while U.S. journalists were kept out.

That’s right. Although the encounter between Trump, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak took place in the center of American power, it was TASS, the official Russian news agency, that had the pictures.

According to Andrei Sitov, the TASS bureau chief in Washington, the Russian photographer who took the photos covers Lavrov full time and came with him on the plane. He was presented to the White House as the official photographer.

It was a curious choice for a meeting that took place less than a day after Trump fired FBI Director James B. Comey, who was leading the investigation into Trump’s campaign ties to Russian officials.
Washington Post​


----------



## Macfury

Ohhhh, those Russians....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It's not the Russians you need to worry about. It's the treasonous Americans that Trump is letting rule thee playground. In the first 100 days, not one good thing has come from the Trump administration. Plenty of lies and accusations, but not one decent policy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

That would describe the Obama administration to me. Eight years of retrograde policies and international disasters. I like a lot of what Trump has done already--didn't know he had the balls to go through with them. I wake up every day grateful that Clinton is not president.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's not the Russians you need to worry about. It's the treasonous Americans that Trump is letting rule thee playground. In the first 100 days, not one good thing has come from the Trump administration. Plenty of lies and accusations, but not one decent policy.


----------



## Dr.G.

"When power leads man toward arrogance, poetry reminds him of his limitations. When power narrows the areas of man's concern, poetry reminds him of the richness and diversity of his existence. When power corrupts, poetry clenses." John F. Kennedy

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." John Dalberg-Acton


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump fires Comey for investigating his ties to Russia and then invites top Russian figures to the Oval Office where only Russian press are present. No American press allowed—not even Fox. Now THAT doesn't look suspicious. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Way to go, Freddie... Trump thought he was pulling the wool over your eyes, but *YOU* saw through it!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump fires Comey for investigating his ties to Russia and then invites top Russian figures to the Oval Office where only Russian press are present. No American press allowed—not even Fox. Now THAT doesn't look suspicious.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump fires Comey for investigating his ties to Russia and then invites top Russian figures to the Oval Office where only Russian press are present. No American press allowed—not even Fox. Now THAT doesn't look suspicious.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was surprised that Fox was not allowed in, but that is what the Russians demanded and they got what they wanted. tptptptp


----------



## Macfury

It cracks me up to see Trump trolling the Democrats who wanted Comey fired a few short months ago--they're now singing Comey's praises! Maxine Waters had to pull handflips to say that, had Hillary won, she should have fired Comey. Trump, however, had no right!

Rep. Maxine Waters' confusing interview on James Comey's firing - Business Insider



> During Waters' interview Wednesday, the congresswoman suggested she thought that it was wrong for Trump to fire Comey but that the firing would have been justified if ordered by a President Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It cracks me up to see Trump trolling the Democrats who wanted Comey fired a few short months ago--they're now singing Comey's praises! Maxine Waters had to pull handflips to say that, had Hillary won, she should have fired Comey. Trump, however, had no right!
> 
> Rep. Maxine Waters' confusing interview on James Comey's firing - Business Insider


Whether you agree with Trump or not the optics of his administration are very poor. Being a leader is not always about policy, many times it is about appearance..... do we display to the masses we look like we know what we are doing....even if we don't. I don't see that in Trump's White House.....and if your own house is not in order............


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Whether you agree with Trump or not the optics of his administration are very poor. Being a leader is not always about policy, many times it is about appearance..... do we display to the masses we look like we know what we are doing....even if we don't. I don't see that in Trump's White House.....and if your own house is not in order............


Trump realizes that no matter what he does, the MSM is going to spin it negatively. Optics no longer matter to him, or his base.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump realizes that no matter what he does, the MSM is going to spin it negatively. Optics no longer matter to him, or his base.


I disagree, I think optics are very important to him, he just needs a different lens.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I disagree, I think optics are very important to him, he just needs a different lens.


He's not going to get a fair shake nor matter what he does.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> He's not going to get a fair shake nor matter what he does.


Not meaning to be pedantic, but it is a fair shake in what he doesn't do. You always get hit for what you do but politically the greater sins are in what you don't do. Take this thread, it is rife with them.


----------



## screature

Rps said:


> Whether you agree with Trump or not the optics of his administration are very poor. Being a leader is not always about policy, many times it is about appearance..... do we display to the masses we look like we know what we are doing....even if we don't. I don't see that in Trump's White House.....and if your own house is not in order............





Macfury said:


> Trump realizes that no matter what he does, the MSM is going to spin it negatively. Optics no longer matter to him, or his base.





Rps said:


> I disagree, I think optics are very important to him, he just needs a different lens.





Macfury said:


> He's not going to get a fair shake nor matter what he does.





Rps said:


> Not meaning to be pedantic, but it is a fair shake in what he doesn't do. You always get hit for what you do but politically the greater sins are in what you don't do. Take this thread, it is rife with them.


I agree with you Rps. If he would just stop calling major network news, "fake news" that would be a start.

It is beneath his position as President to do so. Every President takes their hits and roll with the punches, he does not seem to be capable of doing so because he is so used to doing the punching without any retaliation. 

He is a crybaby and a woose at best.

MF if he stopped being a crybaby and a woose and actually acted (I say acted because that would be the best he could do) like a President then maybe he could garner more respect. But he doesn't give a chite about that because he has no class about him at all. He just spews whatever comes into his mind with less than a moments thought.


----------



## Macfury

As A Republican with some conservative ideas he will get no respect. It was easy for Obama to roll with the punches--the mainstream media rarely threw him anything but softballs.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> *As A Republican with some conservative ideas he will get no respect. It was easy for Obama to roll with the punches--the mainstream media rarely threw him anything but softballs*.


Well that is true. But Regan managed to deal with it, as did the Bushes without calling the major networks fake news. So what the ****? The guy is a wimp. He seems to think he can step into main ring of American politics without taking a significant amount of hits and bruises? He has been leading a sheltered life for far too long and now he has to face reality. I hope reality beats the chite out of him and makes him a more humble man... But that isn't going to happen because he is sick, he is what is called a megalomaniac and I don't know that there is any cure for that. 

It was easy for Obama to roll with the punches becuase he was not saying the stupid ass chite that Trump is spewing. He was Presidential in his tact and decorum.

Look, the Donald thinks that he is now the CEO of the USA and he can do whatever he wants, hire and fire whoever he wants and it doesn't matter. The only accountability resides with those who are "beneath" him.They will become his scapegoats and then he can say, "You Are Fired".


----------



## Macfury

I think he expected a significant number of hits and bruises.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump is the dupe in Russia photo op (opinion) - CNN.com

A Fox News photographer would never "trick" Pres. Trump in this way. Even Pravda would not have done this in this manner.


----------



## Macfury

This slurry of muddled thinking and anonymous sources in the CNN piece only makes a lick of sense if there actually is a vast Russian conspiracy.



Dr.G. said:


> Trump is the dupe in Russia photo op (opinion) - CNN.com
> 
> A Fox News photographer would never "trick" Pres. Trump in this way. Even Pravda would not have done this in this manner.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump is the dupe in Russia photo op (opinion) - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> A Fox News photographer would never "trick" Pres. Trump in this way. Even Pravda would not have done this in this manner.



Like Hillary said: puppet.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like Hillary said: puppet.


Hillary who gave Putin control of key North American uranium holdings? That Hillary?


----------



## Dr.G.

Trumponomics ................. is far better than "voodoo economics" or even Keynesian economics. Who knew that Pres. Trump created the term "priming the pump" and "pump priming"?????????????

Trump Explains Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.

"Priming the pump?

Yeah, have you heard it?

Yes.

Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It’s what you have to do."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trumponomics ................. is far better than "voodoo economics" or even Keynesian economics. Who knew that Pres. Trump created the term "priming the pump" and "pump priming"?????????????
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Explains Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.
> 
> 
> 
> "Priming the pump?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, have you heard it?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It’s what you have to do."



Well, Melania did plagiarize her speech, so maybe it runs in the family.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, Melania did plagiarize her speech, so maybe it runs in the family.


:lmao::clap:

Sadly, in all seriousness, Pres. Trump is an educated person. I taught the concept of pump priming to my grade 10 students when I was teaching high school social studies. Of course, this was a public school in NY State and he went to private schools in NY State.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, in all seriousness, Pres. Trump is an educated person. I taught the concept of pump priming to my grade 10 students when I was teaching high school social studies. Of course, this was a public school in NY State and he went to private schools in NY State.



I think Trump has Alzheimer's. Seriously. That's why he can't remember what he said from one day to the next. And it's only going to get worse.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think Trump has Alzheimer's. Seriously. That's why he can't remember what he said from one day to the next. And it's only going to get worse.


Not sure about Alzheimer's, and I would NOT wish that on anyone. Still, I agree that it is going to get worse. We shall have to wait for moment he comes before the American people and say "I am not a crook". That will be the final chapter of his presidency. We shall see.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I think he expected a significant number of hits and bruises.


Maybe so, but if true he doesn't care so why should you?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Not sure about Alzheimer's, and I would NOT wish that on anyone. Still, I agree that it is going to get worse. We shall have to wait for moment he comes before the American people and say "I am not a crook". That will be the final chapter of his presidency. We shall see.



Nixon was 61 when he resigned rather than be impeached. Reagan was 78 when he retired, likely due to his emerging struggle with Alzheimer's. Trump is somewhere between those two agewise, and he has certainly committed impeachable acts already, legality-wise. I think his biggest problem is that since he has no background in either law or governance, he doesn't know what he's doing. Making it up as you go along doesn't work that well when you're President.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nixon was 61 when he resigned rather than be impeached. Reagan was 78 when he retired, likely due to his emerging struggle with Alzheimer's. Trump is somewhere between those two agewise, and he has certainly committed impeachable acts already, legality-wise. I think his biggest problem is that since he has no background in either law or governance, he doesn't know what he's doing. Making it up as you go along doesn't work that well when you're President.


Well, I would agree with your point that "... since he has no background in either law or governance, he doesn't know what he's doing." Still, it would be difficult to get him to resign due to illness, or to impeach him ........ at least with this Congress. Still, each morning I wake up and turn on CNN to see if he has jumped to another crisis/distraction. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh163n1lJ4M[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXL7C0JQDM[/ame]

An interesting "what if???"

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxWPh3llU-I[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

No, he hasn't committed impeachable offenses--except in the fevered minds of progs.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Maybe so, but if true he doesn't care so why should you?


I want HIM not to care so he can keep on with his agenda. I care only to the degree that others might hold him back.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Those economists were really bullish on the Obama stimulus and QE as well. Who believes them at this point?


Methinks you and The Buffoon-in-Chief may not agree on economic policy (if he even understands what's coming out of his own mouth):

*Trump Explains Economics to The Economist. Hilarity Ensues.*









Donald Trump, economic genius​
*...it’s OK if the tax plan increases the deficit?*

_It is OK, because it won’t increase it for long. You may have two years where you’ll … you understand the expression “prime the pump”?_​
*Yes.*

_We have to prime the pump._​
*It’s very Keynesian.*

_We’re the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard that expression before, for this particular type of an event?_​
*Priming the pump?*

_Yeah, have you heard it?_​
*Yes.*

_Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It’s what you have to do._​
*It’s …*

_Yeah, what you have to do is you have to put something in before you can get something out._​
:yikes:

A few facts. First, the United States is not “the highest-taxed nation in the world.” It is one of the lowest-taxed nations in the OECD:








Second, Trump did not invent the phrase “prime the pump.” It has been around since at least the 1930s and is extremely familiar to economists. Nor does it describe his plan. Priming the pump refers to a program of temporary fiscal stimulus to inject demand into an economy stuck with high unemployment. Trump is instead proposing to permanently increase the deficit in an economy with low unemployment. 

Telling The Economist you invented the phrase “priming the pump,” to describe a plan that does not prime the pump, is a bit like sitting down with Car and Driver, pointing to the steering wheel on your car and asking if they have ever heard of a little word you just came up with called “hubcap.”
(NYmag)​


----------



## eMacMan

Strictly speaking the phrase: "Prime the pump" refers to a pump. There are several reasons to pour water in above the sucker washer. One is to wet the leather so it forms a better seal, another is to displace air in the well line to make it easier to start a flow. 

Phrase has been around as long as there have been hand pumps.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Strictly speaking the phrase: "Prime the pump" refers to a pump. There are several reasons to pour water in above the sucker washer. One is to wet the leather so it forms a better seal, another is to displace air in the well line to make it easier to start a flow.
> 
> Phrase has been around as long as there have been hand pumps.



I'm guessing that's still longer ago than "just the other day."


----------



## Macfury

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world (federal + state)--tied with two other countries.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation&wpmk=1

Reminds me of the movie "The Pelican Brief".

I wonder if the Russians bugged the Oval Office when they came for a "visit" the other day??????????


----------



## Dr.G.

"Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of the past election may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the people of America realize that I won a HUGE victory, so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'

With malice toward all, with charity for none, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle of draining the swamp ........... so that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall forever vanish from this great country of ours. Only then can we truly make America great once again."

Trump threatens Comey in new tweet - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Macfury

Great, now let's get on with tax reform!


----------



## eMacMan

Comey seems to have forgotten the Hoover Prime Directive. He did not have enough dirt on Trump to keep the comb-over in check. That in turns speaks volumes as to how little there is to the so-called Russian connection.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> Comey seems to have forgotten the Hoover Prime Directive. He did not have enough dirt on Trump to keep the comb-over in check. That in turns speaks volumes as to how little there is to the so-called Russian connection.


True ........... which is why HH was named FBI director for life.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Comey seems to have forgotten the Hoover Prime Directive. He did not have enough dirt on Trump to keep the comb-over in check. That in turns speaks volumes as to how little there is to the so-called Russian connection.


At the very least, after 10-months of McCarthy ranting, there should be at least one smoking gun to offer the public to indicate that such a probe would be worthwhile. The phrase "meddling with the election" is almost meaningless, especially in light of Obama sending his team to Israel to try to ensure Netanyahu's defeat in the last election--and that's if you excuse simply killing the leaders of governments that the US doesn't like.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> At the very least, after 10-months of McCarthy ranting, there should be at least one smoking gun to offer the public to indicate that such a probe would be worthwhile. The phrase "meddling with the election" is almost meaningless, especially in light of Obama sending his team to Israel to try to ensure Netanyahu's defeat in the last election--and that's if you excuse simply killing the leaders of governments that the US doesn't like.


Yep so easy to ignore Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Ukraine and those are just some of the more recent examples. The ones so blatant that I am able to quickly recall.


----------



## CubaMark

*Acting FBI director Andrew McCabe contradicts White House.*










Acting FBI director Andrew McCabe testified Thursday before a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing at which Comey had been scheduled to appear. Here's what he said about Comey's standing with the rank and file:


> "Director Comey enjoyed broad support within the FBI. And still does to this day."


And here's what he said about the importance of the Russia investigation:


> FBI's McCabe says Russia probe is "highly significant," refuting WH claims of it being a "small" investigation CBS News


Expect the White House to point out soon that McCabe's wife once ran for office in Virginia as a Democrat. Also expect them to fire him!
(Slate)​


----------



## Macfury

Honestly, that's exactly what I expected to happen. McCabe is a partisan hack with an axe to grind.


----------



## Dr.G.

Were he a bit younger, he would have made a great director of the FBI.


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> I want HIM not to care so he can keep on with his agenda. I care only to the degree that others might hold him back.


Well others should and do care and want to hold him back, it is called democracy. He is not the King of the USA, and do unilaterally whatever he wants. His actions thus far seem to indicate that he thinks he is a King. After all he ran the Miss America beauty pageant for years where the winner was crowned like a Queen. I think he wants a crown as well.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Well others should and do care and want to hold him back, it is called democracy. He is not the King of the USA, and do unilaterally whatever he wants. His actions thus far seem to indicate that he thinks he is a King. After all he ran the Miss America beauty pageant for years where the winner was crowned like a Queen. I think wants a crown as well.


:clap::clap::clap: Excellent points, mon ami. :clap:


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Great, now let's get on with tax reform!


let's... Let us.

Are you a dual citizen?


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump claims Comey exonerated him 3 times. FBI experts aren't buying it - World - CBC News

Wow!!! Fake news comes to Canada. What's next?????????


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8OxILuXrEU[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8OxILuXrEU


:lmao::clap::lmao:

However, now there shall be no more daily news briefings. tptptptp


----------



## screature

CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8OxILuXrEU





Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::lmao:
> 
> However, now there shall be no more daily news briefings. tptptptp


Anyone notice the irony, that someone named McCarthy is lambasting what are basically McCarthyism ideals? It really is too funny.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> let's... Let us.
> 
> Are you a dual citizen?


Not at this point. It would take some more of the types of changes Trump is suggesting to make that happen.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Were he a bit younger, he would have made a great director of the FBI.


He's Canadian!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Not at this point. It would take some more of the types of changes Trump is suggesting to make that happen.


I seem to recall some time ago you were considering emigrating to the US. Then you changed your mind, presumably because there was a change in government that you did not like and decided to stay here.

Trump lost the popular vote. He won the Electoral College. 

Serious question, so how long do you think it is going to take for you to emigrate to the US at this point in time based on your personal criteria for emigrating?


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> Anyone notice the irony, that someone named McCarthy is lambasting what are basically McCarthyism ideals? It really is too funny.


Actually, the Dems are now the McCarthyites--constantly blaming everyone for collusion with Russia!


----------



## screature

Macfury said:


> Actually, the Dems are now the McCarthyites--constantly blaming everyone for collusion with Russia!


Well that is huge stretch and completely untrue. The Dems are committing no witch hunts and putting people into jail or blacklisting them for their beliefs. They simply call into question the pre-election affiliations between Trump directly and his "officers" with Putin and his government. 

I have no idea if the allegations are true and neither do you, but I do know this; in the mind of Trump: Mexicans bad. Muslims bad. 

Stop them from getting in and try as hard as you possibly can to get those who are here out.

McCarthyism, cut and dry.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Anyone notice the irony, that someone named McCarthy is lambasting what are basically McCarthyism ideals? It really is too funny.


An interesting observation, screature. :clap:

Sen. McCarthy, were he in the Senate now, would not have let Pres. Trump get away with his Russian "connections".


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Actually, the Dems are now the McCarthyites--constantly blaming everyone for collusion with Russia!


Yes, but the Democrats are doing it in a relevant and legal manner, following the rule of law and the Constitution, and NOT what Joe McCarthy did back in the 50s.


----------



## Dr.G.

screature said:


> Well that is huge stretch and completely untrue. The Dems are committing no witch hunts and putting people into jail or blacklisting them for their beliefs. They simply call into question the pre-election affiliations between Trump directly and his "officers" with Putin and his government.
> 
> I have no idea if the allegations are true and neither do you, but I do know this; in the mind of Trump: Mexicans bad. Muslims bad.
> 
> Stop them from getting in and try as hard as you possibly can to get those who are here out.
> 
> McCarthyism, cut and dry.


Once again, very good points, screature. :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump Boasts That His Impeachment Will Get Higher TV Ratings Than All Other Impeachments - The New Yorker

It would be a HUGE ratings grab for Fox News!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

The entire Russian witch hunt is based on no evidence. It's a half-baked story grabbed out of nowhere. McCarthy did just as the Dems are doing today--making grand accusations with no evidence.


----------



## Macfury

screature said:


> I seem to recall some time ago you were considering emigrating to the US. Then you changed your mind, presumably because there was a change in government that you did not like and decided to stay here.
> 
> Trump lost the popular vote. He won the Electoral College.
> 
> Serious question, so how long do you think it is going to take for you to emigrate to the US at this point in time based on your personal criteria for emigrating?


Personal responsibilities with sick family members kept me here, but it was the election of Obama and the electorate's embrace of statism centred in Washington that made the US look alien to me. I'm not sure that the US can recover from its downward spiral, but I'm willing to see what happens in the next four years. Will review my options after the results of the 2020 election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Best quote yet on the Trump rationale for firing Comey.



Robot Arm said:


> I'm firing Comey based on the recommendation of the Deputy Attorney General, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
> 
> 
> 
> But I actually fired him to put an end to the Russia investigation, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
> 
> 
> 
> Comey had better hope there are no "tapes" of our conversations, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
> 
> 
> 
> But as FBI director he would have known there are no tapes, he would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Take from this what you will given the source, but an interesting read nevertheless.

TRUMP JUST WON! This DOJ Lawyer Just Leaked James Comey’s Worst Nightmare on Live TV

https://subjectpolitics.com/trump-j...-leaked-james-comeys-worst-nightmare-live-tv/


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I wish you were as quick with the Jesus memes when Obama was in office, Biffie.


----------



## CubaMark

_Astounding. Frightening. Not at all surprising._

*How Trump gets his fake news* - POLITICO


----------



## CubaMark

_I can't imagine Catholics in the USA are all-too thrilled with this:_

*Donald Trump will nominate Callista Gingrich to be Vatican ambassador — but wanted Newt to be on TV instead*










President Trump will choose Callista Gingrich as the next U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, but that didn’t almost happen — because the president would rather have Newt defending him on TV.

Gingrich was worried that a move to Europe would prevent her husband, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, from defending the president on television, according to Axios. A source told Axios they assured the president that arrangements would be made for Gingrich to broadcast from the Holy See via satellite.

Trump is set to visit Rome where he will meet with Pope Francis on May 24, and the White House is hoping the president will formally announce his decision beforehand. The process has taken longer than usual because an approval from the Office of Government Ethics is still currently pending, according to CNN. In a 2011 interview Gingrich told the Christian Broadcasting Network that she has “always been a very spiritual person.”

As a devout Catholic, Gingrich is a member of the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington. She played a major role in her husband’s conversion to Catholicism according to the New York Times, but was also a reason why Mr. Gingrich’s second marriage ended in 1999, after the former speaker of the house was engaged in a six-year affair with her.
(Salon)​


----------



## Macfury

That's a solid consideration. I would think the same way.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...199710b69_story.html?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

Ooopps!!!!!!


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...199710b69_story.html?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1
> 
> Ooopps!!!!!!


No "ooopps!!!!" about it. The Buffoon-in-Chief is unfit for the job. From your link:

_President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

*The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government*, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

[Political chaos in Washington is a return on investment in Moscow]

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. *Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”*_​
It will be interesting to see how the Trumpites in here will defend their ideological hero after this one.... :yikes::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I tried to find out the source of the above story about Trump, but couldn't find anyone named.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> No "ooopps!!!!" about it. The Buffoon-in-Chief is unfit for the job. From your link:_President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.
> 
> *The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government*, officials said.
> 
> The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.
> 
> [Political chaos in Washington is a return on investment in Moscow]
> 
> “This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. *Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”*_​It will be interesting to see how the Trumpites in here will defend their ideological hero after this one.... :yikes::lmao:


Presumably the partner is Israel and having helped found, recruit, fund and train ISIS it is reasonable to guess that they have intimate knowledge of the inner workings.

Obviously they are upset since the goal of ISIS is to further the chaos created by the US in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen. Giving details to the Russians who are bent on destroying ISIS would certainly tick off the party in question.


----------



## SINC

Whoda thunk it?

Can't unsee: Western Canadians find Trump's image in highway signs - British Columbia - CBC News


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Whoda thunk it?
> 
> Can't unsee: Western Canadians find Trump's image in highway signs - British Columbia - CBC News


Not quite up to the level of Christ on a piece of toast.... :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

John Cornyn removes self from FBI director role consideration - CNNPolitics.com

Interesting ................ as was the police officer that he recommended as the new director of the FBI.


----------



## Rps

Wouldn't you.... I mean this is why people don't line jump at hangings!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Wouldn't you.... I mean this is why people don't line jump at hangings!




 ^^^^


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...l?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-world%2Bnation&wpmk=1

Does he have tapes from a secret wiretap of the Oval Office to prove this? Or, will this be just like the Comey notes made after the discussions? Hopefully, Pres. Trump has his own secret tapes to disprove both of them .................. Wait, that would NOT be good for Pres. Trump either. 

Never mind.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...l?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-world%2Bnation&wpmk=1
> 
> 
> 
> Does he have tapes from a secret wiretap of the Oval Office to prove this? Or, will this be just like the Comey notes made after the discussions? Hopefully, Pres. Trump has his own secret tapes to disprove both of them .................. Wait, that would NOT be good for Pres. Trump either.
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind.



Not good for President Trump, and President Trump is not good for America. It all balances out.


----------



## Macfury

If I write myself a memo accusing you of something, that's not proof that it occurred.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...l?wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-world%2Bnation&wpmk=1
> 
> Does he have tapes from a secret wiretap of the Oval Office to prove this? Or, will this be just like the Comey notes made after the discussions? Hopefully, Pres. Trump has his own secret tapes to disprove both of them .................. Wait, that would NOT be good for Pres. Trump either.
> 
> Never mind.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If I write myself a memo accusing you of something, that's not proof that it occurred.


True. All the more reason to have an independent special prosecutor to look for the truth in all of this situation. 

For the record, you may publish your memo ................ but I have our conversation on tape (video AND audio). As well, be careful when you start your car this morning.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True. All the more reason to have an independent special prosecutor to look for the truth in all of this situation.


A special prosecutor to look into exactly what?



Dr.G. said:


> For the record, you may publish your memo ................ but I have our conversation on tape (video AND audio). As well, be careful when you start your car this morning.


Like Chuck Schumer's threat?



> “Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you."


----------



## FeXL

For those of you braying about Trump sharing intelligence info (that came from the Israeli's in the first place), where was the hue & cry when Barry did the exact same thing with Cuba?

Jes' askin...

Obama Ordered The U.S. Intelligence Community To Share Intel With Cuba



> Just a month before the 2016 election, President Barack Obama signed a policy directive ordering the U.S. intelligence community to share sensitive U.S. intelligence with Cuba’s communist government, despite the fact that one of the top U.S. intelligence official had branded Cuba as one of America’s biggest espionage threats. The presidential policy directive, which was issued as part of the Obama administration’s efforts to normalize U.S. relations with the Castro regime, required the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to “exchange information on mutual threats with Cuban counterparts.”


Curious, idn't it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> True. All the more reason to have an independent special prosecutor to look for the truth in all of this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, you may publish your memo ................ but I have our conversation on tape (video AND audio). As well, be careful when you start your car this morning.



Russian ambassador to Trump: this is gift from Vladimir himself. It is elf on a shelf. Just make sure it is always facing you.


----------



## Macfury

That's all part of the great march of "progressivism" so it doesn't count.



FeXL said:


> For those of you braying about Trump sharing intelligence info (that came from the Israeli's in the first place), where was the hue & cry when Barry did the exact same thing with Cuba?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> That's all part of the great march of "progressivism" so it doesn't count.


Precisely.

More:

Trump Committed a Huge Breach By Revealing a Piece of Data We Had, But Apparently the Media's Leakers Aren't Committing a Breach By Telling the World It Came From Israel



> _Trump's loose lips revealed intelligence shared with us by someone else,_ they shriek, _and that compromises national security and puts an ally in danger!_
> 
> Then they add: _Oh PS, it was Israel who gave us the info._
> 
> Apparently it's not a breach for a former and a current intelligence official to leak that to the New York Times (and thereby, to Russia), but it's a major thing for Trump to have revealed the info in the first place.


Italics from the link.

Related:

Growing Consensus Trump Acted Appropriately, Leakers Broke Law



> Fred Fleitz, a former U.S. intelligence official who now is senior vice president for policy and programs at the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, noted that the president has ultimate authority to classify or declassify information as he sees fit. He blasted current and former officials who took it upon themselves to second-guess the president’s decision and undercut him through The Washington Post.
> 
> “In doing so, they leaked a substantial number of highly classified details to The Washington Post,” he told LifeZette. “This is a very serious crime. *We can argue about whether Trump made a mistake. But we know what they did was highly illegal.”
> 
> Fleitz criticized "people who took it upon themselves to determine what is appropriate or not. And they should go to jail."*


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> For those of you braying about Trump sharing intelligence info (that came from the Israeli's in the first place), where was the hue & cry when Barry did the exact same thing with Cuba?


"exact same thing" - uh, no, not at all. Holy hell, do you believe what you wrote, or is this just another vacuous dig in which you know you're full of it, but are hoping people don't actually think about what you write?

The intelligence sharing over "mutual threats" with Cuba pertained specifically to Florida-based terrorist groups who have over the decades carried out attacks against the island, including firing heavy-calibre machine-gun fire at hotels from boats parked offshore and planting bombs in Cuban hotels (including one in the '90s that killed a Canadian resident of Italian origin).

Those terrorist actions threatened warming Cuba-USA relationships, and it made perfect sense to have US intelligence agencies cooperating and sharing info with their Cuban counterparts.

This is completely unlike Trump's big mouth, which put at risk intelligence sources in the Middle East. Surely you can see the difference, even if you cannot admit it.


----------



## CubaMark

_This oughta be good for a few laughs..._

*Trump to give speech on radical ideology in Saudi Arabia*

President Trump is set to give a major speech about radical ideology to leaders of more than 50 Muslim countries when he makes his first official visit to Saudi Arabia at the end of this week, his national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, said Tuesday.

“The speech is intended to unite the broader Muslim world against common enemies of all civilization and to demonstrate America's commitment to our Muslim partners,” McMaster said.

** * **​
As a candidate for president, Trump didn’t mince words about Saudi Arabia.

“We defend Saudi Arabia. They don’t pay us nearly what they should be paying. So essentially we are subsidizing all of these countries,” Trump said at a rally last year. “How stupid are we? A country like Saudi Arabia wouldn’t exist for a week.”

As president, Trump signed two executive orders that critics say unfairly target Muslims from six Muslim-majority countries. Saudi Arabia is not one of the countries named in the immigration executive order, but the majority of the country’s 28 million citizens are Muslim.
(ABCNews)​


----------



## FeXL

In both cases intelligence was shared re: common threats. Period.

Dress it up as you like.



CubaMark said:


> ...uh, no, not at all.


Trump never said anything bout the Middle East. MSM did. Try to keep up...



CubaMark said:


> This is completely unlike Trump's big mouth, which put at risk intelligence sources in the Middle East.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, what we have here is poor optics amid poor timing. I remember Nixon's famous line " how can it be illegal I'm the President" . While Trump is no where near the legal mind Nixon was both had poor timing. Anything Russia is a hot button item right now. So the question is..does the President have the right to change a classification of information....if yes, then just poor timing and maybe no biggie ( or biggly) but............


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> CubaMark, what we have here is poor optics amid poor timing. I remember Nixon's famous line " how can it be illegal I'm the President" . While Trump is no where near the legal mind Nixon was both had poor timing. Anything Russia is a hot button item right now. So the question is..does the President have the right to change a classification of information....if yes, then just poor timing and maybe no biggie ( or biggly) but............


Well, as the plot thickens, it is becoming more "big league" (which is the term Pres. Trump keeps insisting he is saying rather than "bigly"). We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

President Donald Trump, amid his own swirling controversies, advised United States Coast Guard Academy graduates that while things aren't always fair, "you have to put your head down and fight, fight, fight."

"Never, never, never give up. Things will work out just fine," he said in New London, Connecticut, Wednesday.

"Look at the way I have been treated lately, especially by the media," he said. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly. You can't let them get you down, you can't let the critics and the naysayers get in the way of your dreams."

Good Lord!!!!!!! Where was Trump during the height of the Watergate scandal????????? Pres. Nixon had it far worse in the media than he has had ........... so far. Of course, if the Trumpublicans turn on him in Congress, and enough of the people who voted for him realize what he is actually doing for them (or not for them), then this may change "BIG league". We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Anything Russia is a hot button item right now.


Only for the RINO's & the left (but I repeat myself). And only if it pertains to Trump.

They studiously looked sideways (and continue to do so) regarding Bill Clinton's (and Bill's Wife's) myriad business dealing with the Russians, not limited to but including access to Canada's uranium mines.

The partisanship & outright hypocrisy continues to stun...


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Nixon had it far worse in the media than he has had ........... so far.


With respect, I disagree.

There was no instantaneous digital media back then.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Where was Trump during the height of the Watergate scandal????????? Pres. Nixon had it far worse in the media than he has had ........... so far.


Nixon was not treated unfairly.


----------



## Macfury

I wrote myself a memo saying that Trump has no connections to Russia and this was reported by the media by anonymous sources, so he's in the clear. Isn't this how it now works?


----------



## FeXL

This could just as easily go in the MSM thread. However, as it pertains to one of the current topics here...

Tips For Reading _Washington Post_ Stories About Trump Based On Anonymous Leaks



> Perhaps we need a similar guide for how to handle breaking news that comes from the _Washington Post_. It turns out we can keep many of the tips:
> 
> 1. In the immediate aftermath, news outlets will get it wrong.
> 2. Don’t trust anonymous sources. If democracy dies in darkness, anonymity is not exactly transparent or accountable. Unless someone is willing to to put his or her name with a leak, be on guard. Pay attention to how well the reporters characterize the motivations of the anonymous leaker. All leakers have motivation. Does the paper seem to have a grasp on how the motivation affects the veracity of the leak?
> 3. If someone is leaking national security information in order to support the claim of a national security violation, be on guard.
> 4. If someone is claiming a serious national security crisis but not willing to go public with the claim and resign in protest of same, be on guard.
> 5. Compare sources willing to put their name and reputation on the line.
> 6. Big anti-Trump news brings out the fakers.
> 7. Pay attention to the language that the media uses. Is a story about something unimportant being written in such a way as to make it seem more important?
> 8. Beware confirmation bias. Everyone has the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories. Be on guard that you don’t accept critical or exonerating evidence to match your political preferences.
> 9. Pay attention to how quickly and fully editors and reporters correct stories based on false information from anonymous sources. If they don’t correct at all, it’s an indication of a lack of respect.


One could just as easily edit the headline to include the _NYT_, _CNN_, _MSNBC_ & a veritable host of other media organizations.


----------



## Rps

After reading this and other threads on Trump here is the danger. If he is forced to abdicate half the world will say good riddance he deserved it and the other half will say the media created falsehoods and he was robbed of his time. Either way the uncivil war is beginning to brew.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> If he is forced to abdicate half the world will say good riddance he deserved it and the other half will say the media created falsehoods and he was robbed of his time.


Related:



> If they take down Trump, they get Pence. Now, Pence isn't great, but you know, Trump isn't turning out that great either.
> 
> But Pence shares the most important quality of all with Donald Trump: Neither is Hillary Clinton.
> 
> No matter how much they scream, Hillary Clinton is not in the White House, but off in the "woods," discovering herself or something.
> 
> Pretty straightforward from here:
> 
> 1. Impeach Trump
> 
> 2. You get Pence
> 
> 3. Hillary keeps trying to make Chelsea Clinton a salable commodity that she can sell on her political graft QVC network
> 
> 4. You get to keep laughing at her misery
> 
> Things aren't that bad.
> 
> Even if they were -- who gives a ****?
> 
> Hillary Clinton will never be president.
> 
> Never. Ever.
> 
> Never, forever.
> 
> That doesn't make for a perfect world, but it makes for a reasonable livable one.


Still a win. 



Rps said:


> Either way the uncivil war is beginning to brew.


I believe it's been on for a while.

Related:

The Civil War is Here



> A civil war has begun.
> 
> This civil war is very different than the last one. There are no cannons or cavalry charges. The left doesn’t want to secede. It wants to rule. Political conflicts become civil wars when one side refuses to accept the existing authority. The left has rejected all forms of authority that it doesn’t control.
> 
> The left has rejected the outcome of the last two presidential elections won by Republicans. It has rejected the judicial authority of the Supreme Court when it decisions don’t accord with its agenda. It rejects the legislative authority of Congress when it is not dominated by the left.
> 
> It rejected the Constitution so long ago that it hardly bears mentioning.


----------



## FeXL

More on current MSM tactics.

Washington Post Creates Fake News Timed-Release Story Intended to Capture Evening News Lede…



> Tonight using “unnamed” and the most vague descriptions of “anonymous sources” The Washington Post creates a fake news story specifically timed to release at the 5pm hour to hit President Donald Trump.
> 
> ...
> 
> * First indication is the timing of the Washington Post news release (5:02pm EDT).
> * Second indication coordination with NYT for immediate follow (6:26pm EDT)
> * Third indication – Same exact pattern as Flynn intelligence leaks. Identical timing.
> * Fourth indication – Same use of entirely anonymous sources: “former American government official” ie. an Obama official.
> * Only 3 U.S. Officials actually in the room with first-hand information: National Security Advisor HR McMaster, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Senior Adviser for policy, Dina Powell.
> * Publication motive/intent – The Washington Post never contacted anyone in the White House for questions, nor did they ask McMaster, Tillerson or Powell for comment before publication. *All three call the Post article – fake News.*


Links' bold.

Further to all of this, and just spitballing here, where was the hue & cry from the left when Bill's Wife's home-brewed server containing classified information was compromised by any number of foreign hackers?

Silence on it then, silence now.

Things that make you go hmmm...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> With respect, I disagree.
> 
> There was no instantaneous digital media back then.


True, but Pres. Nixon was getting it from all sides -- the newspapers, TV, radio, the Republicans in Congress, average people across the US, et al. So far, as Al Jolson was found of saying ............. "You ain't heard nothing yet".

Trump, Trump, Trumpsie goodbye?????

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22NQuPrwbHA[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nixon was not treated unfairly.


What??????????? He was hounded out of office. You Libertarians are all alike ...... support the Constitution and rule of law ......... until someone makes one "small" mistake ............ and then WHAM. 

Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NogWhoE418k[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I wrote myself a memo saying that Trump has no connections to Russia and this was reported by the media by anonymous sources, so he's in the clear. Isn't this how it now works?


You can't trust the "fake media", Macfury. When it is reported on CNN I shall believe it ...................... wait .................. Wolf Blitzer is reporting it right now ................. is your full name really Methuselah Jason Jinglestars?????????????? I would never have guessed this for you. Did you know that your first name means "Man of the spear" in Hebrew??? Are you related in any way to Jumpin’ Jehoshaphat Jinglestars?? He used to play first base for the New York Yankees when I was a boy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> After reading this and other threads on Trump here is the danger. If he is forced to abdicate half the world will say good riddance he deserved it and the other half will say the media created falsehoods and he was robbed of his time. Either way the uncivil war is beginning to brew.


I truly hope that you are wrong with your contentions about the "uncivil war", but there is a possibility for great upheaval if Trump resigns or is impeached. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> I truly hope that you are wrong with your contentions about the "uncivil war", but there is a possibility for great upheaval if Trump resigns or is impeached. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


I hope I am wrong too, but we have seen violent confrontations escalate in his election year. I really think the problem is he doesn't realize when he has created a problem and if that is the case look out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I truly hope that you are wrong with your contentions about the "uncivil war", but there is a possibility for great upheaval if Trump resigns or is impeached. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



There is a possibility for great upheaval if Trump DOESN'T resign or get impeached. Either way, some rough storms ahead.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> There is a possibility for great upheaval if Trump DOESN'T resign or get impeached. Either way, some rough storms ahead.


Progs still haven't gotten over Hillary's loss... and they're prone to violence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Progs still haven't gotten over Hillary's loss... and they're prone to violence.



Not at all, Macfury. You think white supremacists aren't also prone to violence? You're still stuck in your victory lap over Trump's win and Clinton's loss that you seem oblivious to the fact that Trump is not uniting the country—quite the opposite in fact. He has the reigns of power now but his approach is so divisive he's even dividing Republicans. He is not good for America, and he will not make America great again. That's just a stupid slogan.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not at all, Macfury. You think white supremacists aren't also prone to violence? You're still stuck in your victory lap over Trump's win and Clinton's loss that you seem oblivious to the fact that Trump is not uniting the country—quite the opposite in fact. He has the reigns of power now but his approach is so divisive he's even dividing Republicans. He is not good for America, and he will not make America great again. That's just a stupid slogan.


He can't unite the country, because the other half was going in the wrong direction, toward tribalism.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Progs still haven't gotten over Hillary's loss... and they're prone to violence.


I think that you have this backwards, Macfury. Let's just hope that events do not prove me correct. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not at all, Macfury. You think white supremacists aren't also prone to violence? You're still stuck in your victory lap over Trump's win and Clinton's loss that you seem oblivious to the fact that Trump is not uniting the country—quite the opposite in fact. He has the reigns of power now but his approach is so divisive he's even dividing Republicans. He is not good for America, and he will not make America great again. That's just a stupid slogan.


Sadly, all too true, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He can't unite the country, because the other half was going in the wrong direction, toward tribalism.


I don't see the majority of Trump supporters as being "tribalistic", Macfury. Misguided yes, but only a small majority are prone to take up arms and put down all those they see as progressive and peaceful.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-economy%2Bnation&wpmk=1

This can't be good. However, the latest spin blames Pres. Obama for sowing the seeds for this correction. Not sure how he could do this, but the alt.right media has a way of turning up into down and black into white.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> I don't see the majority of Trump supporters as being "tribalistic", Macfury. Misguided yes, but only a small majority are prone to take up arms and put down all those they see as progressive and peaceful.


Excuse me Dr. G., did you mean to say small minority?


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-economy%2Bnation&wpmk=1
> 
> This can't be good. However, the latest spin blames Pres. Obama for sowing the seeds for this correction. Not sure how he could do this, but the alt.right media has a way of turning up into down and black into white.


I think the real issue here is the value of over 20,000......like when traders were making $1M per year the SEC didn't think there was a problem.......2008......gee that was soooooooooo long ago but we have learned right:yikes::yikes::yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> True, but Pres. Nixon was getting it from all sides -- the newspapers, TV, radio, the Republicans in Congress, average people across the US, et al.


And Trump's not getting all of that, plus electronic? :yikes:

The _NYT_ is a curious place...


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> I hope I am wrong too, but we have seen violent confrontations escalate in his election year.


We have. But it's certainly not the right that is fomenting the majority of them.



Rps said:


> I really think the problem is he doesn't realize when he has created a problem and if that is the case look out.


What "problems" has he created?


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> We have. But it's certainly not the right that is fomenting the majority of them.
> 
> 
> 
> What "problems" has he created?


Let's see, FBI, NAFTA, West Bank, Civil War and other American History....Oh yes I almost forgot. Russia.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Let's see, FBI, NAFTA, West Bank, Civil War and other American History....Oh yes I almost forgot. Russia.


Most of these are only problems if you have a stake in the establishment.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Most of these are only problems if you have a stake in the establishment.


Disagree, they are problems for a governed society whose government might be in question.


----------



## Macfury

The "Russia" issue is not real. The FBI business is not illegal. Renegotiating NAFTA makes sense. 

What's the problem with the West Bank?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Disagree, they are problems for a governed society whose government might be in question.



No doubt. And it's not just Trump, but the credibility of the whole nation that is damaged. This is what happens when a pathological liar becomes POTUS.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> No doubt. And it's not just Trump, but the credibility of the whole nation that is damaged. This is what happens when a pathological liar becomes POTUS.


I hate to point out the obvious, but it would be difficult to name a US president over the past century who was not a pathological liar. Sadly it seems to have become a prerequisite for the office. Hiliary certainly possesses that flaw in spades, so it's not as if there would be any difference had she won the election.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The "Russia" issue is not real. The FBI business is not illegal. Renegotiating NAFTA makes sense.
> 
> What's the problem with the West Bank?


Whoops, I meant Western Wall, but anyway in order, Russia is an issue because they have a number of independent sources alleging Russia was involved in tampering....now he fires the guy who is investigating the allegations. If this was an intellectual property issue you would probably have some concerns about the organizations management....here it is a government and many have issues with the control and granting of information. As for NAFTA, as I mentioned before, I was involved with its implementation, his numbers just don't add up as to how bad it is....strictly electioneering. He should at least know the value of his trading partners and his economy....but the W didn't either. As for the Western Wall, in prep for the Donald's trip to Israel his front man was asked if the Pres would like to go to the Western Wall and the answer was no because it wasn't in Israel....bit of a dropped ball there.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Excuse me Dr. G., did you mean to say small minority?


Oops.  Mea culpa. Thanks for the correction, Rp. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> I hate to point out the obvious, but it would be difficult to name a US president over the past century who was not a pathological liar. Sadly it seems to have become a prerequisite for the office. Hiliary certainly possesses that flaw in spades, so it's not as if there would be any difference had she won the election.


To be fair, there are times when "we" shouldn't know. Also, there is a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth....governments have survived on this distinction for centuries.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I think the real issue here is the value of over 20,000......like when traders were making $1M per year the SEC didn't think there was a problem.......2008......gee that was soooooooooo long ago but we have learned right:yikes::yikes::yikes:


Well, the Dow is at about 20,605 right now. Regulations are being taken away and we could be in store for another shock. It is as the progress made during Pres. Obama's two terms have never happened. Still, we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> And Trump's not getting all of that, plus electronic? :yikes:
> 
> The _NYT_ is a curious place...


If you were in the US during the Watergate days you would say that Pres. Trump is not getting near the hits that Pres. Nixon got every day and night. Of course, he was plagued by revelations that kept coming forth and the resignations of his key staff ............... along with this staff getting indicted and some even arrested.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Disagree, they are problems for a governed society whose government might be in question.


An excellent point, Rp.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It is as the progress made during Pres. Obama's two terms have never happened.


There was no progress--that's why it appears it never happened.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> I hate to point out the obvious, but it would be difficult to name a US president over the past century who was not a pathological liar. Sadly it seems to have become a prerequisite for the office. Hiliary certainly possesses that flaw in spades, so it's not as if there would be any difference had she won the election.


Well, Pres. Coolidge and Pres. Truman come to mind. Both were considered bland and honest to a fault. So, there are two within the past 100 years.


----------



## Dr.G.

Special counsel appointed in Russia probe - CNNPolitics.com

"
Washington (CNN) — The Justice Department on Wednesday appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel to oversee the federal investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, including potential collusion between Trump campaign associates and Russian officials. 

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller to the position in a letter obtained by CNN. Attorney General Jeff Sessions previously recused himself from any involvement in the Russia investigation due to is role as a prominent campaign adviser and surrogate. 

Mueller's appointment aims to quell the wave of criticism that President Donald Trump and his administration have faced since Trump fired FBI Director James Comey last week in the middle of the FBI's intensifying investigation into contacts between Trump campaign associates and Russian officials. That criticism swelled on Tuesday evening as excerpts of a memo Comey wrote in February surfaced, in which Comey writes Trump asked him to drop the FBI investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn. "


VERY interesting. Mueller was accepted as FBI director 96-0. Thus, he is seen as independent. This is NOT good news for Pres. Trump. I wonder it the echo of Archibald Cox still may be heard in the White House. Ron Rosenstein might be in Pres. Trump's sights now as well. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Dow dives 373 points as Trump drama rattles market - May. 17, 2017

Here's the proof ................. 8 months ago guess who was president????? Pres. Obama is to blame for today's plunge. Case closed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Gov. Kasich: I hate to say I told you so ... - CNN Video

"Gov. Kasich: I hate to say I told you so ...."


----------



## Macfury

He told Americans enough about his presidential aspirations--that's why he was turfed.



Dr.G. said:


> Gov. Kasich: I hate to say I told you so ... - CNN Video
> 
> "Gov. Kasich: I hate to say I told you so ...."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He told Americans enough about his presidential aspirations--that's why he was turfed.


Yes, sadly so. He was honest and forthcoming and was shot down in the primary battles. I still can hear Jeb Bush saying to his brother "How in hell did I lose the nomination to this man????"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I hate to point out the obvious, but it would be difficult to name a US president over the past century who was not a pathological liar. Sadly it seems to have become a prerequisite for the office. Hiliary certainly possesses that flaw in spades, so it's not as if there would be any difference had she won the election.



I must respectfully disagree. Other Presidents lie about some things, whereas Trump lies about pretty much everything. It's really difficult to figure out when he is telling the truth, other than when his little feelings get hurt by the big bad media. They're very unfair. Very unfair. Also when he told us the job is a lot more difficult than he thought it would be.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I must respectfully disagree. Other Presidents lie about some things, whereas Trump lies about pretty much everything. It's really difficult to figure out when he is telling the truth, other than when his little feelings get hurt by the big bad media. They're very unfair. Very unfair. Also when he told us the job is a lot more difficult than he thought it would be.


Again, you make some valid points, Rp.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...pisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation&wpmk=1

Someone is not going to get a presidential Christmas card this year.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Again, you make some valid points, Rp.



If I were Rp, I would likely say thank you.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> If I were Rp, I would likely say thank you.


Well, thank Rp, Frank. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh163n1lJ4M

Let's see if Pres. Trump "welcomes this sort of examination". We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

“If Hillary Clinton were elected, she would be under protracted criminal investigation likely followed by the trial of a sitting president,” Trump told a crowd in October 2016. “The investigation will last for years, nothing will get done, government will grind to a halt and our country will continue to suffer.”

Well, he got the correct situation .................. just the wrong president.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> “If Hillary Clinton were elected, she would be under protracted criminal investigation likely followed by the trial of a sitting president,” Trump told a crowd in October 2016. “The investigation will last for years, nothing will get done, government will grind to a halt and our country will continue to suffer.”
> 
> Well, he got the correct situation .................. just the wrong president.


He should have indicted her immediately.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He should have indicted her immediately.


Sorry, but that ship has sailed.


----------



## Dr.G.

For Pres. Trump's sake, and the sake of the US, I hope that he is never treated this poorly. Such an act would truly be "BIG league", and NOT in the best interest of anyone. If he is not impeached, or does not resign, it would be fitting if he runs in 2020 and is crushed in the popular vote AND the electoral college vote. Not going to happen, but it would be nice if it was at the hands of Bernie Sander. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Bernie is DOA.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Bernie is DOA.


DOA = Democrat Of Acceptance. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> DOA = Democrat Of Acceptance. Paix, mon ami.


That ship has sailed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That ship has sailed.


We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Maybe Pres. Trump will be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize as well??? We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Maybe Pres. Trump will be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize as well??? We shall see.


You mean the Noble Piece Prize don't you Dr. G.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I must respectfully disagree. Other Presidents lie about some things, whereas Trump lies about pretty much everything. It's really difficult to figure out when he is telling the truth, other than when his little feelings get hurt by the big bad media. They're very unfair. Very unfair. Also when he told us the job is a lot more difficult than he thought it would be.


Must have missed the closing of Gitmo that Barry swore would be his first presidential action.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Must have missed the closing of Gitmo that Barry swore would be his first presidential action.


The selective blindness is stunning. Like some of these uninformed dudes are paying attention to the world for the first time in a decade.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Must have missed the closing of Gitmo that Barry swore would be his first presidential action.



Yeah, that's something I wish Obama had followed through on. Omar Khadr could have come home sooner.


----------



## Dr.G.

Woke up and turned on CNN to see that the world is still here. That's the good news. Having been born and raised in the United States, I was around to experience the time that the country faced worse challenges than what we are going through today. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? Those were scary times for one and all around the world. Luckily, Pres. Kennedy showed his presidential strength during that two week period in Oct. 1962.


----------



## Rps

In today's Windsor Star is an excellent article by Joe Chidley from the Financial Post on some of Trump's failings. I would say it is an unbiased article as it outlines issues which Mr. Trump's advisors should have drawn to his attention. Have a read and let's discuss....

Market sends a message as The Great Communicator melts down | Financial Post


----------



## FeXL

Puberty breaks later for some...



Macfury said:


> Like some of these uninformed dudes are paying attention to the world for the first time in a decade.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> In today's Windsor Star is an excellent article by Joe Chidley from the Financial Post on some of Trump's failings. I would say it is an unbiased article as it outlines issues which Mr. Trump's advisors should have drawn to his attention. Have a read and let's discuss....
> 
> 
> 
> Market sends a message as The Great Communicator melts down | Financial Post



Kind of makes you think we should have given Bill's wife the chance. She might rub some people the wrong way, but this White House is a complete cluster****.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> In today's Windsor Star is an excellent article by Joe Chidley from the Financial Post on some of Trump's failings. I would say it is an unbiased article as it outlines issues which Mr. Trump's advisors should have drawn to his attention. Have a read and let's discuss....
> 
> Market sends a message as The Great Communicator melts down | Financial Post


An excellent article. Sadly, I concur with his six-point synopsis of the situation. We shall see how this foreign trip turns out to either distract all of us from the current situation, or add more fuel to the fire.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Kind of makes you think we should have given Bill's wife the chance. She might rub some people the wrong way, but this White House is a complete cluster****.


Good point, Frank. Sadly, we shall never know. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Kind of makes you think we should have given Bill's wife the chance. She might rub some people the wrong way, but this White House is a complete cluster****.


It does not make me think that at all.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> In today's Windsor Star is an excellent article by Joe Chidley from the Financial Post on some of Trump's failings. I would say it is an unbiased article as it outlines issues which Mr. Trump's advisors should have drawn to his attention. Have a read and let's discuss....
> 
> Market sends a message as The Great Communicator melts down | Financial Post


I agree with much of that, but I also believe that he need to ditch family members--Ivanka and Jared--who are leading him off the course that his base voted for. It's not a family-owned construction business. Unless he does this, he'll be getting it from both sides.

Still, even if the only thing Trump does is get Gorsuch confirmed and undoes Obama executive orders, and kills Obamacare, it will be a better outcome than a Hillary Clinton presidency.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It does not make me think that at all.


Did not think so, Macfury. You "Bernie or Bust" supporters are a breed apart from most progressives. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I agree with much of that, but I also believe that he need to ditch family members--Ivanka and Jared--who are leading him off the course that his base voted for. It's not a family-owned construction business. Unless he does this, he'll be getting it from both sides.
> 
> Still, even if the only thing Trump does is get Gorsuch confirmed and undoes Obama executive orders, and kills Obamacare, it will be a better outcome than a Hillary Clinton presidency.


I don't know if the family can be eliminated. Even hundreds of years ago adult family were presidential advisors.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I don't know if the family can be eliminated. Even hundreds of years ago adult family were presidential advisors.


Whether it can or can't be eliminated, it needs to go. Jared and Ivanka are eating into the support from the Trump base. Eventually, his only supporters would be his family.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> I don't know if the family can be eliminated. Even hundreds of years ago adult family were presidential advisors.





Macfury said:


> Whether it can or can't be eliminated, it needs to go. Jared and Ivanka are eating into the support from the Trump base. Eventually, his only supporters would be his family.


Not sure it matters all that much. Thus far Trump seems to be letting The Deep State/Establishment/Elite call the shots. Other than the efforts to repeal Obama Care his presidency is remarkably similar to what Hiliary had promised, particularly in Syria and the rest of the middle east.

FWIW I grew up in the shadow of the first cold war, and recognize the attempts to revive it for exactly that. No-one has said anything to convince me that the Russians are anywhere close to the threat to Americans, than their own tyrannical and thoroughly corrupt government.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Whether it can or can't be eliminated, it needs to go. Jared and Ivanka are eating into the support from the Trump base. Eventually, his only supporters would be his family.


Reports out of the White House suggest that once Pres. Trump returns from his foreign trip, Jared and Ivanka are going to help him "cull" his staff. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Have a read and let's discuss....


I don't know that I've ever read an article from Joe Chidley before and I wouldn't know him if I found him in my soup but he presents like many of the uninformed left in the MSM, looking for a quick scapegoat to blame, rather than searching for an actual cause. That said, I believe he misses the cause entirely.

I'm going to break this down into a response to his intro, then the six points he raises.

Intro: So the markets are falling. Whoop-dee-frickin'-doo. Markets don't always rise, especially at record rates. There are always corrections. Where was Chidley's article crediting Trump when the markets jumped immediately after Trump's win? 



> Trump’s Dow performance is the best among first term president’s in the postwar era.


Where were Chidley's articles on the abysmal markets blaming Barry while he was in power and after his re-election in 2012?

Everybody can point a finger but what's the solution?

Chidley notes that he sees the problem as communication based.

He goes on to ask a couple sarcastic questions which throw into sharp relief his complete lack of understanding as to why Trump got elected. The little credibility Chidley may have had just tanked.

1. Undisciplined? Perhaps. One of the reasons many like Trump is precisely because he does shoot from the hip, rather than engage in some droll, PC, politi-speak out of both sides of his mouth. He ain't no politician & certainly wasn't elected because he was. There's a certain attraction to his rawness for many. As to Chidley's suggestions as to what Trump's tweets illustrate, well, everybody's got an opinion...

2. There's a little town in Montana, right against the Alberta border, by the name of Sweetgrass, MT., population no more than a few dozen, certainly less than a hundred. Back in the day there were about 7 bars in Sweetgrass that stayed open on Sundays, at a time when nobody in Alberta was open on Sundays, save the occasional lounge. There were very few people in southern Alberta who hadn't, at some point, been to Sweetgrass for a Sunday drink. Growing up 11 miles north meant I was there on a regular basis. Long weekends meant thousands of people would show up on road trips from as far away as Calgary.

Long story longer, one of the favourite bars was Curly Bob's Supper Club owned by, no surprise, a guy named Bob. Long since passed on, Bob used to say that he didn't care what people were saying about him & his bar, _as long as they were talking about it_. I agreed then & agree now. If you are not in the public's eye, you are not in their mind. It's marketing, plain & simple.

That said, Trump's approval numbers are down. No argument.

3. Whatever. Nothing salient enough here to even address. Presents as sour grapes rather than any real criticism.

4. Perhaps the most important point of the article & easily the most egregious. 

Yet another person complaining that Trump doesn't do press conferences. Why should he? If I was treated by the press in the self-same fashion as they treat Trump, I'd tell them to get stuffed, too. No way in hell I'd subject myself to that sort of abuse on a regular basis. Don't blame him one whit. Nothing wrong with asking a pointed question, just don't make everything an attack. And leave the Fake News for the National Enquirer. 

Evasion? Absolutely! Not of the issues but of the rabid pit bulls. If whatever passes for professional journalists these days were even remotely objective Trump probably wouldn't mind hosting occasional press conferences. The MSM have made their bed. Now they can lay in it.

In addition, press conferences take time that can otherwise be used more effectively. Anybody here work in an office environment that has regular meetings? I have. Biggest waste of time I ever had. If Trump can get his point out in a few Tweets he is simply being more efficient.

And comparing the number of Trump's Twitter followers against somebody else's? Seriously? A dick measuring contest? You win, Joe. You're the biggest dick.

5. If Trump took time to address every accusation, every fake news bit, every outright lie levelled against him, he's be buried in a matter of days. Period.

And, I like the fact that he's giving many of these idiots exactly what they deserve: nothing.

In addition, many also appreciate that he's not giving the public some soft-soap sales talk, rich in BS & content-free. If the public requires constant reassurance that everything is going to be just fine, the public is the issue, not Trump.

6. Trump _is_ having difficulty fixing things. Period. And, probably the only point of Chidley's I agree with, he needs to kick some ass & start firing people. Why he carried anybody over from Barry's legacy is beyond me. Comey should have been gone on day 2. His utter failure in dealing with Bill's Wife, among other things, made that patently clear months before the election.

OK, why are Trump's approval ratings down & why is he having difficulty getting things done? Neither are rocket surgery and the first is because of the second.

It's common knowledge that Trump is not only battling the partisan left MSM but the RINO's (GOP-e) in his own party and the Dem's. 

Trump is also fighting many of the government staff who are still fiercely Dem loyalists, the Deep State, the leakers. First & foremost, he needs to step up to the plate & deal with these.

Second, he needs to get back to the messages he sold while campaigning: a complete rewrite of Obamacare, not Ryan-care (eg. Obamacare Lite) and the whole Globull Warming charade (and if that means getting Ivanka out of the WH, so be it), among others.

Third, he needs to play his game, not the game of the opposition. He needs to get out of defensive mode.

If he deals with the loyalty issues, gets back to grass roots & goes on the offensive instead of being on his heels all the time, he will be more successful & consequently, his ratings will go up.

And, presumably the markets, as well. To Chidley's great relief...


----------



## FeXL

There are people who insist that the violence exhibited recently by members of the left is merely from outliers, as opposed to to Prog SOP.

More & more it appears to be the latter...

The American Left Is Talking Itself Into Violence



> Something is wrong with the American Left. The recent spate of violent protests on college campuses has been well-documented, but the violence and intolerance championed by left-wing student activists is beginning to creep off campus and into mainstream public life.


Related:

One comes to her senses...

Former Radical Describes Leftist Activism as 'Cult,' Saw 'Murderous Rage'



> For many of us on the outside, it's easy to make sweeping generalizations about social justice warriors and their world of radical Leftist activism. But when someone becomes disillusioned and leaves, their words can be especially valuable knowledge about this problem America is facing.
> 
> Here's what one ex-radical has to say:
> 
> _I see increasing numbers of so-called liberals cheering censorship and defending violence as a response to speech. *I see seemingly reasonable people wishing death on others and laughing at escalating suicide and addiction rates of the white working class.* I see liberal think pieces written in opposition to expressing empathy or civility in interactions with those with whom we disagree. I see 63 million Trump voters written off as “nazis” who are okay to target with physical violence. I see concepts like equality and justice being used as a mask for *resentful, murderous rage.*_​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

And if he'd have called a spade a spade instead of an f'ing shovel, you would have complained about that...

What Does Barack Obama Really Think of Donald Trump? ‘He’s Nothing But a Bullsh–ter’



> “He’s nothing but a bullsh–ter,” Obama told two friends early last November, describing an election night phone call with Trump, in which the businessman suddenly professed his “respect” and “admiration” for Obama—after years of hectoring.


Get a grip, Barry...


----------



## FeXL

I don't have much positive to say about Reddit, but this bodes well.

Reddit Community Turns To Full-Scale Revolt On Bill Nye



> Comedian Bill Nye’s new Netflix TV show, “Bill Nye Saves the Earth,” was harshly criticized on Reddit Tuesday for being too mean and political.
> 
> The post complains that Nye, who is well known for hosting a children’s TV show in the 1990s, left his objective “Science Guy” persona behind in favor of becoming blatantly political and bashing anyone who disagrees with him. The Reddit post received more than 71,000 upvotes and over 14,000 comments as of Tuesday evening. It has been “gilded” 8 times, and each of these means that someone on Reddit paid about $4 dollars to the author for writing it.
> 
> “I am about halfway through Bill Nye Saves the World, and I am completely disappointed. I’ve been a huge fan of Bill Bye since I was ten,” Reddit user Sloth859 wrote. “Bill Nye the Science Guy was entertaining and educational. Bill Nye Saves the World is neither. In this show he simply brings up an issue, tells you which side you should be on, and then makes fun of people on the other side.”


----------



## Rps

FeXL, I think we are going to agree to disagree. Not controlling the ship is okay in a video game, maybe even a real ship....even if it may be some significant local consequences....but not a nation....especially an empire one. Trump appears to not be able to control his staff, his twitter account, and his own lack of knowledge. As for fake news, again we are in this circular argument that if I agree with it it is news but if I don't it's fake. Maybe we should be looking to unravel fake truth.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Not sure it matters all that much. Thus far Trump seems to be letting The Deep State/Establishment/Elite call the shots. Other than the efforts to repeal Obama Care his presidency is remarkably similar to what Hiliary had promised, particularly in Syria and the rest of the middle east.
> 
> FWIW I grew up in the shadow of the first cold war, and recognize the attempts to revive it for exactly that. No-one has said anything to convince me that the Russians are anywhere close to the threat to Americans, than their own tyrannical and thoroughly corrupt government.


The price of empire is you always have to have an enemy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump tweeted. "This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history." Guess he forgot his US history lessons re the witch hunts undertaken by Sen. Joe McCarthy. In that he was tutored somewhat by Roy Cohn, part of McCarthy's team of character assassins, he should know that what he thinks he is experiencing now is NOTHING compared to what happened to thousands of innocent people.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> FeXL, I think we are going to agree to disagree. Not controlling the ship is okay in a video game, maybe even a real ship....even if it may be some significant local consequences....but not a nation....especially an empire one. Trump appears to not be able to control his staff, his twitter account, and his own lack of knowledge. As for fake news, again we are in this circular argument that if I agree with it it is news but if I don't it's fake. Maybe we should be looking to unravel fake truth.



Exactement, as the French would say.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactement, as the French would say./QUOTE]
> 
> Only French socialists...


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> As for fake news, again we are in this circular argument that if I agree with it it is news but if I don't it's fake.


Doesn't matter who believes what. If there are no verifiable facts supporting the story, it's BS. Period.



Rps said:


> Maybe we should be looking to unravel fake truth.


What's the difference? In my mind, none.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Doesn't matter who believes what. If there are no verifiable facts supporting the story, it's BS. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference? In my mind, none.


This is where the word verifiable comes in. If you don't believe the "sources" then the only way you can verify is to go there yourself, see the physical evidence, and make a conclusion. So if you don't believe what is being published or broadcasted, or cast upon the net, is that fake news or fake truth.....they are not the same. And if you think everything is bogus then truth will be a hard thing to come by don't you think, because what is verifiable?


----------



## eMacMan

Something that has become increasingly evident in recent years, is that all media is essentially propaganda. It is wise to balance say CNN against Russia Today. Neither may be telling the whole truth, but they can lead you to threads that will eventually get there.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> This is where the word verifiable comes in. If you don't believe the "sources" then the only way you can verify is to go there yourself, see the physical evidence, and make a conclusion. So if you don't believe what is being published or broadcasted, or cast upon the net, is that fake news or fake truth.....they are not the same. And if you think everything is bogus then truth will be a hard thing to come by don't you think, because what is verifiable?


We can go down to the nutty premise that anything outside of our immediate sphere is a simulation. No point in that. 

But we can watch news reports built on "anonymous sources" fall away to lies. We can watch reports based on documents that are accessible to anyone and see that the reports are lies. We can watch reporters claiming that something is sure to happen, and then doesn't happen--or vice versa. And we can look at the private communications of reporters who rae conspiring to misrepresent the truth.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Something that has become increasingly evident in recent years, is that all media is essentially propaganda. It is wise to balance say CNN against Russia Today. Neither may be telling the whole truth, but they can lead you to threads that will eventually get there.


Absolutely!


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## CubaMark

Rps said:


> This is where the word verifiable comes in. If you don't believe the "sources" then the only way you can verify is to go there yourself, see the physical evidence, and make a conclusion.


This is my #1 issue. A great deal of confidence is given to bloggers and personalities who create a pretty website and rant about whatever issue is pissing them off that day. While one may suspect a journalist has a political bias, anyone who has been properly trained as a journalist has at least been given the low-down on checking sources, seeking multiple sources to enhance reliability, issues around media law, proper interviewing techniques, and elimination of bias. Non-journalists don't begin with that kind of foundation, so how can one expect their information to be any more reliable than people who have been educated in the craft of journalism?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> We can go down to the nutty premise that anything outside of our immediate sphere is a simulation. No point in that.
> 
> But we can watch news reports built on "anonymous sources" fall away to lies. We can watch reports based on documents that are accessible to anyone and see that the reports are lies. We can watch reporters claiming that something is sure to happen, and then doesn't happen--or vice versa. And we can look at the private communications of reporters who rae conspiring to misrepresent the truth.


I agree. With the advent of ( and I hate to singularly point the finger here but it is as good a place to start ) cable network news channels is everything is broadcast as entertainment and everything has the same level of importance...or noise.

But politicians also suffer from this as well, especially during election campaigns. Since this is an American political thread, Trump, Clinton and all challengers really did this. The problem is separating lies from incomplete or slanted truths. The question is not what is fake news but what is truth......and truth, like history has been written by the winners.


----------



## Macfury

What year do you think this is, CM? Today, CNN will go to market with a story based on one anonymous source. Following WIKILeaks' release of the Podesta e-mails, there were messages from dozens of journalists indicating they were ready to violate journalistic integrity to help Hillary get elected. 4CHAN makes a sport of convincing gullible reporters that a single mock interview with one of their own members is real--then laughing their asses off when it goes to print.

Elimination of bias? Why should they when their employers encourage bias? That horse left the barn decades ago.



CubaMark said:


> While one may suspect a journalist has a political bias, anyone who has been properly trained as a journalist has at least been given the low-down on checking sources, seeking multiple sources to enhance reliability, issues around media law, proper interviewing techniques, and elimination of bias.


----------



## SINC

The elimination of bias issue is a tricky thing to understand. While admittedly there are without doubt many journalists (and or bloggers) whose bias shows through in their writing, there are just as many editors, some very skilled, at inserting their own type of bias into reporter's stories, and they control what is actually published. And while some of that bias is the personal bias of the particular editor (excluding bloggers of course), much of it is corporate bias. In other words, that particular editor had better follow the dictate of his or her owners news organization and the bias appears in a much broader sense such as in the case of CNN versus CBC for example. The only thing of which there is no doubt is that such corporate bias does indeed exist in the form of the agenda of the particular news group.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> The elimination of bias issue is a tricky thing to understand. While admittedly there are without doubt many journalists (and or bloggers) whose bias shows through in their writing, there are just as many editors, some very skilled, at inserting their own type of bias into reporter's stories, and they control what is actually published. And while some of that bias is the personal bias of the particular editor (excluding bloggers of course), much of it is corporate bias. In other words, that particular editor had better follow the dictate of his or her owners news organization and the bias appears in a much broader sense such as in the case of CNN versus CBC for example. The only thing of which there is no doubt is that such corporate bias does indeed exist in the form of the agenda fo the particular news group.


+1, we can all name newspapers that have a political bias.....


----------



## Macfury

I was just looking at an article today that began: "We all know that exercise and clean eating are the two pillars of a successful weight loss program." That's the typical attitude now. The reporter will decide on the truth, because that's what they see as their job. On a larger scale: "We're all familiar with Russian meddling in the US election." No need to prove it--we already know.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> This is where the word verifiable comes in. If you don't believe the "sources" then the only way you can verify is to go there yourself, see the physical evidence, and make a conclusion. So if you don't believe what is being published or broadcasted, or cast upon the net, is that fake news or fake truth.....they are not the same. And if you think everything is bogus then truth will be a hard thing to come by don't you think, because what is verifiable?



Getting the population to doubt the media is an early warning sign of a coming tyranny. One way to get the population to doubt the media is to broadcast a plethora of lies yourself so the population starts to doubt everything. I think that's about where the US is getting to now if they don't collectively give their heads a shake about the source of most of the "fake news" and "alternative facts." Everytime Trump harshly criticizes anyone, it's for something he does himself with impunity.


----------



## Macfury

It's difficult to take that comment seriously when you're happy to spread memes containing mountains of misinformation.

The function of the mainstream media today is to back up the dominating position of the establishment--a soft tyranny. Currently, the media happens to be bucking for a good military exchange with Syria and Russia, so it's spreading a lot of disinformation to make that happen. Remember the Maine!




Freddie_Biff said:


> Getting the population to doubt the media is an early warning sign of a coming tyranny. One way to get the population to doubt the media is to broadcast a plethora of lies yourself so the population starts to doubt everything. I think that's about where the US is getting to now if they don't collectively give their heads a shake about the source of most of the "fake news" and "alternative facts." Everytime Trump harshly criticizes anyone, it's for something he does himself with impunity.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Getting the population to doubt the media is an early warning sign of a coming tyranny. One way to get the population to doubt the media is to broadcast a plethora of lies yourself so the population starts to doubt everything. I think that's about where the US is getting to now if they don't collectively give their heads a shake about the source of most of the "fake news" and "alternative facts." Everytime Trump harshly criticizes anyone, it's for something he does himself with impunity.


In a way Frank, are you being guilty of what you are expressing here?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It's difficult to take that comment seriously when you're happy to spread memes containing mountains of misinformation.
> 
> The function of the mainstream media today is to back up the dominating position of the establishment--a soft tyranny. Currently, the media happens to be bucking for a good military exchange with Syria and Russia, so it's spreading a lot of disinformation to make that happen. Remember the Maine!


But this is not new for those of us who lived through the Cold War era.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> In a way Frank, are you being guilty of what you are expressing here?



Perhaps, but from my vantage point, it's the other team that are the crazy ones.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> But this is not new for those of us who lived through the Cold War era.


Yup. That's why I mentioned the Maine. And that's why I believe that doubting the media is not a forerunner of tyranny.


----------



## Dr.G.

Russiagate ............ Trumpcare .................."nut job FBI director" ............ "witch hunts" ................... on and on and on. Makes one miss the good old days of "the New Nixon" .......... "four more years" .......... Watergate ............ "I am not a crook" .................. up up and away in Marine One. Those were the days ................ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I


----------



## Dr.G.

Jeb Bush on Trump: I predicted a chaos president - CNNPolitics.com

His "I told you so" is a bit late now. We are in the middle of the swamp.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Jeb Bush on Trump: I predicted a chaos president - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> His "I told you so" is a bit late now. We are in the middle of the swamp.


I say a prayer of thanks daily that Jeb Bush is not president.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

A loser and a has-been discussing old times...


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I say a prayer of thanks daily that Jeb Bush is not president.


His father, who once was president, hallow be thy name. His brother, who once was president, shallow is his name. Don't see how Jeb could have been worse.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> A loser and a has-been discussing old times...


The "loser"...with 3 million more votes!


----------



## Dr.G.

WCraig said:


> The "loser"...with 3 million more votes!


A good point which needs to be remembered comes the mid-term elections in Nov. 2018. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

That's the one! 



WCraig said:


> The "loser"...with 3 million more votes!


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> His father, who once was president, hallow be thy name. His brother, who once was president, shallow is his name. Don't see how Jeb could have been worse.


I was afraid Jeb would be just as good as either of them.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> A good point which needs to be remembered comes the mid-term elections in Nov. 2018. We shall see.


Hillary was just as much a winner as the 1960 New York Yankees. They got twice as many runs as Pittsburgh!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> Natalie Matthews-Ramo
> Natalie Matthews-Ramo
> 
> I’m getting ready for my big foreign trip.
> 
> I will be strongly protecting American interests—that’s what I like to do!
> 
> The airplane ride is hours and hours. I get lots of screen time! No one wants to give me my phone, but I shout and shout until they say OK.
> 
> On the plane, the pilot pins shiny wings to my jacket. Yay! I like planes as much as I like trucks!
> 
> Our first stop is Saudi Arabia. Jared says it is like a beach, big and hot and full of sand. No girls are allowed on the beach.
> 
> They eat crazy food in Saudi Arabia, like hummus! But I get to order a steak with ketchup, just the way I like it.
> 
> Mr. Steve tells me Muslims are the bad guys, but General Jim says I have to be nice to them. It’s confusing!
> 
> I wish General Mike was here. I’m not allowed to play with him anymore.
> 
> After Saudi Arabia we go to Israel, where the best Jews live. My friend Bibi sneaks into my room after dark and tells me scary stories about the bad ISIS men. I can’t wait to go home and tell my friends Sergey and Sergey.
> 
> I don’t want to go to the sad museum.
> 
> In Italy, they call pizza PIZZA! My teachers tell me that if I sit by myself and think about the long-term economic and security benefits of our multilateral North Atlantic defense regime, I can have pepperoni.
> 
> I get to meet the “pope”!
> 
> Don’t tell anyone, but before I left I was a little bit scared about my trip.
> 
> What if the other leaders laughed at me?
> 
> What if I had to touch Melania?
> 
> What if I had an accident?
> 
> But Ivanka said I should be brave. “Who’s my big brave boy?” Ivanka asked me.
> 
> “I am,” I said. “I’m a big brave boy.”
> 
> It’s been an exciting trip, but when it’s over, I’ll be glad to be home at Mar-a-Lago, where I get as much ice cream as I want.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_.../my_first_big_boy_trip_by_donald_j_trump.html


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hillary was just as much a winner as the 1960 New York Yankees. They got twice as many runs as Pittsburgh!


Well, maybe Clinton should have selected Bill Mazeroski as her VP ............ or Yogi Berra should have jumped higher at the wall. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE1nYMg-jU4[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Hillary was just as much a winner as the 1960 New York Yankees. They got twice as many runs as Pittsburgh!


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrI7dVj90zs[/ame]

Trump has been elected president ................... "..... I don't believe it .......... I still don't believe it ............."


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ves-in-saudi-arabia/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

Well, I lost that bet. I bet my wife that Pres. Trump would be wearing one of his red "Make America Great Again", and that Melania would be wearing one of the new head scarfs from the Ivanka Trump line of women's clothing, but neither wore anything on their heads.  I gues he forgot his Jan.29th, 2015 tweet condemning Michelle Obama for not covering up her head ("Many people are saying it was wonderful that Mrs. Obama refused to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia, but they were insulted.We have enuf enemies.) Hopefully, he now knows how to spell "enough". Then, he gave the "thumbs up" display, which is fine here in America, but is like giving someone the middle finger in Saudi Arabia. 

Still, there was a signing of a signing a joint “strategic vision” that includes $110 billion in American arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Taking away Jared Kushner's 10% commission for brokering the deal, this leave enough to build the Trump Wall. Way to go Mr. President.

"Executives from a number of major U.S. companies unveiled investment partnerships with the Saudis, including Blackstone, a private-equity giant that announced a $40 billion infrastructure fund. Stephen A. Schwarzman, Blackstone’s chairman and chief executive, is close to Trump and leads the White House’s economic advisory council of CEO’s." This includes the new Trump Hotel Deluxe in Riyadh. A win-win for one and all I would say.

However, there was public silence from the U.S. delegation on the issue of human rights in Saudi Arabia, which has imprisoned peaceful critics of the government and has sharply restricted the rights of women. Well, you can't win them all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ves-in-saudi-arabia/?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I lost that bet. I bet my wife that Pres. Trump would be wearing one of his red "Make America Great Again", and that Melania would be wearing one of the new head scarfs from the Ivanka Trump line of women's clothing, but neither wore anything on their heads.  I gues he forgot his Jan.29th, 2015 tweet condemning Michelle Obama for not covering up her head ("Many people are saying it was wonderful that Mrs. Obama refused to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia, but they were insulted.We have enuf enemies.) Hopefully, he now knows how to spell "enough". Then, he gave the "thumbs up" display, which is fine here in America, but is like giving someone the middle finger in Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> Still, there was a signing of a signing a joint “strategic vision” that includes $110 billion in American arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Taking away Jared Kushner's 10% commission for brokering the deal, this leave enough to build the Trump Wall. Way to go Mr. President.
> 
> 
> 
> "Executives from a number of major U.S. companies unveiled investment partnerships with the Saudis, including Blackstone, a private-equity giant that announced a $40 billion infrastructure fund. Stephen A. Schwarzman, Blackstone’s chairman and chief executive, is close to Trump and leads the White House’s economic advisory council of CEO’s." This includes the new Trump Hotel Deluxe in Riyadh. A win-win for one and all I would say.
> 
> 
> 
> However, there was public silence from the U.S. delegation on the issue of human rights in Saudi Arabia, which has imprisoned peaceful critics of the government and has sharply restricted the rights of women. Well, you can't win them all.



There was also a noticeable lack of women present.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> There was also a noticeable lack of women present.


Actually, while I don't agree with this policy, I can understand why it happened in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, while I don't agree with this policy, I can understand why it happened in Saudi Arabia.



Well at least it will slow down his compulsive pussy grabbing. They let you do it if you're famous, you know.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well at least it will slow down his compulsive pussy grabbing. They let you do it if you're famous, you know.


So, he has been in office now for over four months and just how many has he grabbed to justify your wild statement? 

Can you provide links to all these 'compulsive' grabs since January? 

I thought not?


----------



## SINC

The obvious unnoticed.


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump signs $110 billion arms deal with nation he accused of masterminding 9/11*









Donald Trump has signed the largest arms deal in history with Saudi Arabia despite warnings he could be accused of being complicit in war crimes and after blaming Saudi Arabia himself for producing the terrorists behind 9/11.

The President confirmed he had signed a weapons deal with the Saudis worth $109.7 billion, predicted to grow to a $380 billion Saudi investment within 10 years, during his first trip abroad since his Inauguration.

Mr Trump’s Press Secretary Sean Spicer said the deal was positive news for American employment and the economy. 

** * **​
The deal would also appear hypocritical after the President publicly accused the Saudis of masterminding the attacks on the Twin Towers in 2001.

After his election, Mr Trump said Saudi Arabia should be banned from exporting oil to the US, and has accused the country of killing gay people and enslaving women.

** * *​*
King Salman gave Mr Trump the Collar of Abdelaziz Saud, the highest civilian honour and named after the founder of modern Saudi Arabia, who struck a lucrative deal to give their oil fields to US companies. Mr Trump bowed as he received it, the same move he attacked former President Barack Obama for making in 2012.
(Independent UK)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> So, he has been in office now for over four months and just how many has he grabbed to justify your wild statement?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide links to all these 'compulsive' grabs since January?
> 
> 
> 
> I thought not?



He's had 70 years, I believe. You think the only molestation that counts is the type that occurs in the past four months? I thought so.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Oddly enough, Trump seems to be giving a grown up persuasive speech to the leaders of the Muslim world. Maybe he's just been preaching to the wrong choir all this time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> He's had 70 years, I believe. You think the only molestation that counts is the type that occurs in the past four months? I thought so.


When one describes his actions as compulsive and when it has not occured in four months, it is hardly compulsive.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> When one describes his actions as compulsive and when it has not occured in four months, it is hardly compulsive.



Sure, or maybe he just can't get up the.... courage of late. Or he's being watched too closely. It was Trump himself who said when he sees a beautiful woman he just can't help himself. He just starts kissing them. And you don't consider that to be compulsive?


----------



## Rps

Just wondering, you think Trump is Beatty or Montag...... in case you are stumped think 451.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure, or maybe he just can't get up the.... courage of late. Or he's being watched too closely. It was Trump himself who said when he sees a beautiful woman he just can't help himself. He just starts kissing them. And you don't consider that to be compulsive?


The kissing allegation by his own admission is perhaps compulsive, but your assertion to crotch grabbing is not.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Just wondering, you think Trump is Beatty or Montag...... in case you are stumped think 451.


The parallels are not really strong, but I would say somewhere between. Probably a younger Beatty.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The parallels are not really strong, but I would say somewhere between. Probably a younger Beatty.


Not so sure, when Beatty is telling Montag the "why"; that government sounded to me very much like Trumps campaigns...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The kissing allegation by his own admission is perhaps compulsive, but your assertion to crotch grabbing is not.



Maybe you're right. Maybe it was more premeditated than compulsive.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not so sure, when Beatty is telling Montag the "why"; that government sounded to me very much like Trumps campaigns...


The book states explicitly that the people themselves, not the government, are the force behind the book banning.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The book states explicitly that the people themselves, not the government, are the force behind the book banning.


If I remember correctly, the government had the firemen burning books as a way to ease the unread society whose only concern was mindless pleasure and many were entranced by the "wall-room" tvs. Free thought was discouraged as antisocial....they also were in a state of perpetual war were they not......sound familiar.


----------



## Rps

Any comment on Trump's speech today? While not a supporter I must say I thought it was well done and delivered, give credit when it is due.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> If I remember correctly, the government had the firemen burning books as a way to ease the unread society whose only concern was mindless pleasure and many were entranced by the "wall-room" tvs. Free thought was discouraged as antisocial....they also were in a state of perpetual war were they not......sound familiar.


The firemen were burning the books because the people wanted them to, but the book burning had the force of government. There were wars in _451 _but they did not serve the same literary purpose as in _1984_. In _1984_ they were a means to distract and to enlist emotional support from the populace (though whether such wars were actually occurring at all is questionable). In _451,_ the wars were real, but their function in the story was to show that the people barely cared at all about them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Any comment on Trump's speech today? While not a supporter I must say I thought it was well done and delivered, give credit when it is due.



He was remarkably on script and, dare I say..... Presidential sounding.


----------



## Rps

MacFury, true, but we can't ignore the back story in 451, thought was controlled via hedgemony. It was in the public interests to not be bothered with demon thought.....that to me was why the drabness of social experiences. In 1984 it was more show biz.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> He was remarkably on script and, dare I say..... Presidential sounding.


I agree. Luckily Jared K. reminded him NOT to start off the speech with "Shalom everyone" ...................... and that he should save this greeting for when he got to Israel. 

All in all, it was a good speech.


----------



## CubaMark

Looks like somebody (*cough* Melania *cough*) has had enough of someone's ****...

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/866691692761665536


----------



## CubaMark

*...and....what kind of sorcery is this???*










In this photo from the Saudi Press Agency, U.S. President Donald Trump is joined by Egyptian dictator Abdel Fatah al-Sisi and Saudi king Salman bin Abdulaziz at the opening of the so-called "Global Center for Combating Extremist Ideology." The three men ceremonially "activated" the building by placing their hands upon a mysterious glowing orb and making wishes, or something. The internet is perplexed and fascinated by the event's perfect strangeness.
(BoingBoing)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Looks like somebody (*cough* Melania *cough*) has had enough of someone's ****...
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/866691692761665536



Ain't no love lost there. Exactly what that prick deserves. I'm liking Melania more all the time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I agree. Luckily Jared K. reminded him NOT to start off the speech with "Shalom everyone" ...................... and that he should save this greeting for when he got to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, it was a good speech.



He did say "God bless, America" though. No mention of Allah anywhere.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> He did say "God bless, America" though. No mention of Allah anywhere.


A wise decision.


----------



## CubaMark

A more revealing pic of the evil orb touching....










:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Creepy as Fword, especially with the king looking over at the lighting on Donald's face.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump credits the Western Wall for Israel's lack of Mexicans.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

*White House twists bombshell testimony about Russia contacts*

During a House Intelligence Committee Hearing on Tuesday, former CIA Director John Brennan said the FBI’s investigation of the Trump campaign’s connections with Russia is “well founded.” 

He cited “information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign that I was concerned about because of known Russian efforts to suborn such individuals” as evidence.

As Daily Beast editor Justin Miller pointed out, Brennan’s testimony represents the first time a U.S. official has publicly said they have direct knowledge of communications between the Trump campaign and Russia.

(Think Progress)​


----------



## CubaMark

*CIA director alerted FBI to pattern of contacts between Russian officials and Trump campaign associates*

The CIA alerted the FBI to a troubling pattern of contacts between Russian officials and associates of the Trump campaign last year, former agency director John Brennan testified on Tuesday, shedding new light on the origin of a criminal probe that now reaches into the White House.

In testimony before the House Intelligence Committee, Brennan said he became increasingly concerned that Trump associates were being manipulated by Russian intelligence services as part of a broader covert influence campaign that sought to disrupt the election and deliver the presidency to Trump.

“I was worried by a number of the contacts that the Russians had with U.S. persons,” Brennan said, adding that he did not see proof of collusion before he left office on Jan. 20, but “felt as though the FBI investigation was certainly well-founded and needed to look into those issues.”

Brennan’s remarks represent the most detailed public accounting to date of his tenure as CIA director during the alleged Russian assault on the U.S. presidential race, and the agency’s role in triggering an FBI probe that Trump has sought to contain.

(Washington Post)​


----------



## Dr.G.

"1. Cuts to Medicaid (Over $600 billion in the next decade)
2. Cuts to food stamps, known as SNAP ($193 billion over 10 years)
3. Cuts to student loans ($143 billion over 10 years)
4. Cuts to federal worker retirement programs ($63 billion over 10 years) "

Trump's budget looks like big gifts for the rich, big cuts for the poor - May. 22, 2017

Imagine how much could be saved it they did away with Medicade, food stamps, etc?? Imagine the budget surplus if all of Social Security was done away with??


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "1. Cuts to Medicaid (Over $600 billion in the next decade)
> 
> 2. Cuts to food stamps, known as SNAP ($193 billion over 10 years)
> 
> 3. Cuts to student loans ($143 billion over 10 years)
> 
> 4. Cuts to federal worker retirement programs ($63 billion over 10 years) "
> 
> 
> 
> Trump's budget looks like big gifts for the rich, big cuts for the poor - May. 22, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine how much could be saved it they did away with Medicade, food stamps, etc?? Imagine the budget surplus if all of Social Security was done away with??



Also, if you just kill the poor then you wouldn't have to feel guilty about not feeding them. Only problem: what to do with all those bodies.......? I know! Burn them!


----------



## Macfury

These are all dreadfully run and abused programs. However, expect the actual proposed cuts to be much lower--these are just leaked trial balloons.



Dr.G. said:


> "1. Cuts to Medicaid (Over $600 billion in the next decade)
> 2. Cuts to food stamps, known as SNAP ($193 billion over 10 years)
> 3. Cuts to student loans ($143 billion over 10 years)
> 4. Cuts to federal worker retirement programs ($63 billion over 10 years) "
> 
> Trump's budget looks like big gifts for the rich, big cuts for the poor - May. 22, 2017
> 
> Imagine how much could be saved it they did away with Medicade, food stamps, etc?? Imagine the budget surplus if all of Social Security was done away with??


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> These are all dreadfully run and abused programs. However, expect the actual proposed cuts to be much lower--these are just leaked trial balloons.


Lower???? Higher cuts are needed ........... or better still, eliminate these programs in total!!!!!!!!!! Think of the military .............. think of THE WALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are priority issues. Think BIG picture .............. macro economics .............. "Big League." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Imagine how much could be saved it they did away with Medicade, food stamps, etc?? Imagine the budget surplus if all of Social Security was done away with??


Imagine how much could be saved if they did away with Renewable Energy Subsidies?? Imagine the budget surplus if all the money chasing imaginary problems like Globull Warming was done away with??

Imagine if they took all those untold billions & invested them in job-friendly markets that created employment opportunities and got people off of food stamps and Social Security in the first place??

Imagine that...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's Legacy.

Obama intel agency secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years



> The National Security Agency under former President Barack Obama routinely violated American privacy protections while scouring through overseas intercepts and failed to disclose the extent of the problems until the final days before Donald Trump was elected president last fall, according to once top-secret documents that chronicle some of the most serious constitutional abuses to date by the U.S. intelligence community.


But...the RUSSKIES!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Imagine how much could be saved if they did away with Renewable Energy Subsidies?? Imagine the budget surplus if all the money chasing imaginary problems like Globull Warming was done away with??
> 
> Imagine if they took all those untold billions & invested them in job-friendly markets that created employment opportunities and got people off of food stamps and Social Security in the first place??
> 
> Imagine that...


Easier to just stop Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, and funding for the EPA, Dept. of Education, etc, for the duration of Pres. Trump's term in office. That would enable him to divert these "saved" funds to where they are really needed. A "Big League" move that could enshrine his legacy forever. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

The federal Department of Education should simply be closed down and disbanded. It duplicates a state responsibility.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Easier to just stop Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, and funding for the EPA, Dept. of Education, etc, for the duration of Pres. Trump's term in office.


I don't know that it's easier but it is certainly less effective in that it doesn't address the cause. Which, BTW, is what most politicians do: address the effect, rather than the cause.

Giving people more social assistance does not fix the problem that caused them to require it in the first place.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Giving people more social assistance does not fix the problem that caused them to require it in the first place.


Just look at SNAP/food stamps. The system is rampant with fraud. Any adult student qualifies for SNAP, even if their parents are wealthy. You want some quick cash? Sell your SNAP debit card.

In Michigan, the progs overruled a law that said that anyone with a car valued at greater than $30,000 was ineligible for SNAP. The new rule--anyone with a _SECOND CAR_ valued at greater than $30,000 is ineligible for SNAP.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Just look at SNAP/food stamps. The system is rampant with fraud. Any adult student qualifies for SNAP, even if their parents are wealthy. You want some quick cash? Sell your SNAP debit card.
> 
> In Michigan, the progs overruled a law that said that anyone with a car valued at greater than $30,000 was ineligible for SNAP. The new rule--anyone with a _SECOND CAR_ valued at greater than $30,000 is ineligible for SNAP.


I've read about some of the SNAP fraud.

<snort> A second $30,000 car. Unbelievable. Never owned one $30,000 vehicle in my life, let alone 2. Paid $20,000 for the 'Burb used, around 16 years ago.

I recall applying for student loans as an adult student. I had a 9 year old car with nearly 150,000 miles on the engine (smallblock Chevy, she was an oil burner) that was probably worth a couple thousand dollars and an 11 year old motorcycle that was probably worth about the same. Student Loans told me I had to get rid of my motorcycle in order to get a loan and that they would then deduct the selling price of the bike from the loan I was applying for. It took several lengthy phone calls to convince them that it was actually cheaper for them to let me keep the bike as it got 60 mpg, as opposed to the car which got 20 mpg. Back then insurance, registration & license were cheap enough to make sense of having a second, high mpg driver.


----------



## Dr.G.

CBO on Trumpcare: 14 Million More Uninsured by 2018 | Medpage Today

And the problem is ???????????????????? As Ben Carson said today, "Poverty is a state of mind."


----------



## FeXL

Time to give this one a retirement package & put 'er out to pasture...

WATCH: Pelosi Says the NRA is a Member of the Intelligence Community



> Pelosi spoke to the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a liberal think tank dedicated to advancing progressive economic policies.
> 
> ...
> 
> At the end of her mumble jumble, she made a shocking statement. *According to Pelosi, the National Rifle Association is now a part of the intelligence community.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

THE HORROR!!! 

Great Again: Trump Budget Requires Work for Food Stamps



> It’s time for America to get up off the couch, at least according to President Donald Trump and his budget team.
> 
> The president is proposing the most ambitious welfare reform since the 1990s, focusing on *requiring able-bodied adults who don’t have children to work in order to receive food stamps.*
> 
> The work requirement in the president’s 2018 budget will save a whopping $190 billion over the next ten years, according to the Office of Management and Budget, and is part of a larger plan to reform welfare in America.


M'bold.

Next? Put prisoners to work...

Related:

Jobless claims are running at the lowest level in 44 years



> New applications for unemployment benefits rose a minimal 1,000 to 234,000 in the third week of May, the Department of Labor reported Thursday, driving the average for the past four weeks down to the lowest it has been in 44 years.
> 
> Thursday's report beat forecasters' expectations, which were for new jobless claims, adjusted for seasonal variations, to rise to 237,000.
> 
> And it provided a good sign for the economy. Few claims indicate that layoffs are rare, and that, in turn, net job creation is strong.


More:



> Meanwhile, at 4.4 percent in April, unemployment is already below the rate that Fed officials have said is consistent with a fully healthy economy.


And no, that 4.4% doesn't include the ones no longer looking for work. However, in light of the article above, that number will be going down, too.


----------



## FeXL

MF, you'll like this one. I did.

Donald Trump Has Done An Amazing Job At His Most Important Job



> Looking at it objectively, as a guy who opposed Trump until he dispatched Ted Cruz, I have to consider all the facts and ponder the evidence carefully before awarding Donald Trump the grade of A+. He has done an incredible job of doing exactly what I had hoped he would do in the off chance he defeated that naggy harridan and her corps of gender indeterminate hipsters, coastal snobs, race hustlers, aspiring libfascists, media scum, and wussy pseudo-conservatives terrified that a Hillary loss would mean people might expect them to do more than wear bow ties and go on NPR to prattle about Burke in their high-pitched, nasal voices.
> 
> There can be no serious debate. *Donald Trump has done a truly outstanding job of not being Hillary Clinton.*


Yeah, my bold.

Yep.

More:



> Every day Trump stays in office is another day Hillary is not in office. And that’s a win.


Woohoo!!!


----------



## CubaMark

A class act, the Buffoon-in-Chief!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTuW_KU7YE[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> A class act, the Buffoon-in-Chief!
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTuW_KU7YE[/ame]



Everyone around him shows tremendous grace and restraint. I love this particular gif with the Pope.

https://giphy.com/gifs/donald-trump-pope-francis-3og0Iwg0F6j5wTN3X2


----------



## Macfury

To echo FeXL--I'm grateful every day that Hillary is not in office. None of this affects that gratitude.


----------



## FeXL

There go the midterms...

Greg Gianforte Stuns Media, Democrats in Montana House Win



> Republican Greg Gianforte won Thursday’s special election for the U.S. House in Montana, defeating Democratic challenger Rob Quist despite being charged with misdemeanor assault the day before.


----------



## FeXL

I realize this won't convert any of the faithful...

Declassified memos show FBI illegally shared spy data on Americans with private parties



> The FBI has illegally shared raw intelligence about Americans with unauthorized third parties and violated other constitutional privacy protections, according to newly declassified government documents that undercut the bureau’s public assurances about how carefully it handles warrantless spy data to avoid abuses or leaks.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Are you saying the Pope isn't peaceful?


----------



## FeXL

There is no describing the loathing I feel for freaks like this. The sick fukc...

De Blasio Aide Who’s President of Manhattan Young Democrats Arrested for Horrifying Child Porn



> The Democrats sure do know how to pick them. This is just incredibly vile stuff.
> 
> _A leading young Democrat and de Blasio administration employee has a secret taste for *sickening kiddie porn that involves baby girls as young as 6 months old*, court papers revealed Friday._​


And out on $7500 bail. Why even bother?


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Good one. JFK's "Profiles in Courage" is most likely in that pile.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Are you saying the Pope isn't peaceful?


He is very peaceful, Macfury. Pres. Trump is trying to "make America great again". Imagine if he was the pope ................ he would be trying to make creation great again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin

So???? Pres. Kennedy had a secret channel to the Kremlin and it averted WWIII during the Cuban Missile Crisis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
> 
> 
> 
> So???? Pres. Kennedy had a secret channel to the Kremlin and it averted WWIII during the Cuban Missile Crisis.




Kennedy was also elected. Kushner wasn't.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Kennedy was also elected. Kushner wasn't.


Well, Bobby Kennedy, his Attn. Gen., was also helpful in this "back channel". So, the president's brother vs the president's son-in-law .............. even up, in my opinion. As well, RFK was interested in keeping America out of WWIII ................. Kushner is interested in making America great again. So, if it helps his business and Trump Industries, it is a win-win situation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, Bobby Kennedy, his Attn. Gen., was also helpful in this "back channel". So, the president's brother vs the president's son-in-law .............. even up, in my opinion. As well, RFK was interested in keeping America out of WWIII ................. Kushner is interested in making America great again. So, if it helps his business and Trump Industries, it is a win-win situation.



It's getting harder and harder to tell when you're serious, Dr. G.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's Bill's Wife doing?

Hillary Clinton: Still Drinking, Still Coughing, Still Raging About the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

In sum:



> In other words, just another day in this sad bitter Harridan Nixon's drunk and unfulfilling life.


Related:

Trump will be 'IMPEACHED': Hillary Clinton returns to her alma matter to launch an all-out attack on the president and his 'obstruction of justice'... after breaking out in ANOTHER coughing fit on stage

This was my favorite line:



> 'It was millions of ordinary citizens, especially young people, who voted, marched and organized' to bring changes, she said.


Yes. Yes, they did. Apparently the irony went, whoosh...

And, she completely left out the impeachment she's most familiar with: her very own husband.

Curious, idn't it...


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
> 
> So???? Pres. Kennedy had a secret channel to the Kremlin and it averted WWIII during the Cuban Missile Crisis.


Every country has a backdoor to somewhere. And for major powers it is essential...we wouldn't want any mistakes of understanding now would we.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Every country has a backdoor to somewhere. And for major powers it is essential...we wouldn't want any mistakes of understanding now would we.


True. Back in 1962, it helped to prevent WWIII. Today, it helps to "improve" business interests between Russian and the US. And, as Pres. Coolidge once said, "The business of America is business." Thus, what Kushner is doing is actually patriotic. :clap:

Of course, this was all discovered due to the intercepted exchanges between Russian officials that were discussing how Kushner approached them as to this "back door".


----------



## eMacMan

Not really new news but it did escape the radar here. As disturbing as child porn is I have to agree with the following portions of the article. 

Marni Soupcoff: U.S. cops victimized thousands of children in their kiddie porn sting | National Post



> ...
> When “The Playpen” operation was revealed last summer, Reason’s Jacob Sullum summarized it this way: “the FBI became a major distributor of child pornography to catch people who look at it, thereby committing a more serious crime than the people it arrested.” Ouch.





> The FBI’s actions are a problem even if it is able to convict people of child porn offences with the evidence, though. As Sullum has pointed out — in part by referencing a thoughtful law review article by Canadian lawyer Howard Anglin, who now runs the Canadian Constitution Foundation — the U.S. government’s position is that every single view and transfer of child porn is a new instance of the abuse of the child in the picture or video. If that’s the case, Sullum concludes correctly, American federal prosecutors “are bringing cases that, by their own lights, required the FBI to victimize children thousands of times.”





> The other perturbing thing about the Playpen operation, and the others like it, is the real possibility that the FBI actually increases the consumption of abusive images. Indeed, we know that in the case of Playpen — which the bureau made more enticing to potential users by speeding it up and making it more convenient — about 50,000 visitors a week came to the site during the FBI’s rein, compared to only 11,000 visitors a week when it was not a government-run site. This unexpected talent for making technology user-friendly would be far better used for improving dreadful government administrative websites than for making child pornography easier to obtain.





> But even with a relativistic approach, stings such as Playpen still fall short because they’re not catching the direct abusers of children — the people visiting the horrors on the kids in question. If they were, at least the “ends” would be of clearer import, even if the means would be equally troubling. But as it is, the inherent evils of actively distributing child pornography outweigh the uncertain returns of arresting people for possession of the terrible stuff. I hope someone in authority gives the FBI the message before the next round of Playpens are hosted by the U.S. government.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Trump has done a great job on the world stage. I cringed every time Obama would ooze onto the podium, apologize for the existence of America and then make massive concessions on behalf of its citizens. In the Prog world, having a leader represent the best interests of his/her own country has become an anti-social act.


----------



## FeXL

Michigan: 2 more Muslim couples’ submitted girls to FGM, custody at risk



> Two more Metro Detroit couples face petitions from state welfare officials seeking to terminate their parental rights amidst a growing federal investigation into female genital mutilation.
> 
> The two couples, who have not been charged, went before a Wayne County juvenile judge Friday for a pretrial hearing on the state’s bid to strip their custody. Also before the court: a third custody case involving Dr. Jumana Nagarwala, who is jailed on charges of performing genital mutilation on two 7-year-old Minnesota girls and conspiring to cover up the illegal surgery.


----------



## FeXL

A good start.

Reports: At Least Three Anti-Trump Leakers Identified, Referred to Proper Authorities, Expected to Be Fired Soon



> At least two separate news organizations are reporting that three distinct leakers have been identified at the White House and that President Donald Trump is expected to fire them when he returns from his first overseas trip.


More:



> Multiple White House aides, asked for comment about the CBS News and OANN reports, declined to comment when reached by Breitbart News.


Huh. Wonder why... beejacon


----------



## FeXL

Further on the legacy of the finest POTUS the world has ever seen (except, _maybe_, Jimmy Carter...) and his sidekick, Comey.

BREAKING: Obama's FBI Passed Around Classified Information On American Citizens To People Outside Government



> A shocking report from Circa.com revealed on Friday that the FBI under director James Comey “illegally shared raw intelligence about Americans with unauthorized third parties and violated other constitutional privacy protections, according to newly declassified government documents.” That’s a bombshell charge — Comey told Congress earlier this month that the FBI only used warrantless data that was “lawfully collected, carefully overseen and checked” — but the specifics are even more damning.


More on his legacy:

Obama admin knew gang members were part of illegal immigrant surge: Whistleblower



> The Obama administration knowingly let in at least 16 admitted MS-13 gang members who arrived at the U.S. as illegal immigrant teenagers in 2014, a top senator said Wednesday, citing internal documents that showed the teens were shipped to juvenile homes throughout the country.
> Sen. Ron Johnson, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said a whistleblower turned over Customs and Border Protection documents from 2014 detailing the 16 people who were caught crossing the border.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Actually, it's what a mentally ill person looks like (a Bernie supporter no less) and again shows the inability of the FBI to do much about it:


----------



## Rps

FeXL, this will be an interesting trial on the FGM. The defense is trying to get them off on religious beliefs and is no different than circumcision. I hope they nip that in the bud.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> FeXL, this will be an interesting trial on the FGM. The defense is trying to get them off on religious beliefs and is no different than circumcision. I hope they nip that in the bud.


FGM is a horrible, despicable act of violence against women. It's also not specific to muslims. Indeed:

*FGM was practiced in the U.S.* as well as some of the other Western countries as a medical procedure in form of clitoridectomy and female circumcision in the 1800s and *all the way into late 1970s*, as means to "cure" female masturbation, hysteria, nymphomania and excess sexual desire, lesbianism, lack of female orgasm during traditional intercourse, and a number of other conditions considered abnormal or immoral at the time.* It was covered by the Blue Cross health insurance until 1977*.
(Wikipedia)​
So before folks get their dander up about them damn dirty muslims, well, glass houses & stones, and all that.

It's been a Federal crime in the USA since 1997. I sincerely doubt that "religious beliefs" will give them a pass in this instance.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, it's horrible & despicable, all right. Which is why you've treated us to exactly two (2) posts on it in 16 years and nearly 16,000 posts, all the while trying to minimize the practice because North Americans had their heads up their asses at one point, too...



CubaMark said:


> FGM is a horrible, despicable act of violence against women.


Yeah, & North Americans have outgrown it, like we have many things: slavery, the repression of women & the repression of gays, to name three.

Unlike them damn dirty Muslims...



CubaMark said:


> So before folks get their dander up about them damn dirty muslims, well, glass houses & stones, and all that.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> FGM


Thanks for the information. News to me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From Der Spiegel. Germans know something about populist tyrants. 



Lindigo said:


> *A DER SPIEGEL Editorial by Klaus Brinkbäumer
> 
> May 19, 2017 06:18 PM
> *
> 
> *It's Time to Get Rid of Donald Trump*
> 
> Donald Trump has transformed the United States into a laughing stock and he is a danger to the world. He must be removed from the White House before things get even worse.
> 
> Donald Trump is not fit to be president of the United States. He does not possess the requisite intellect and does not understand the significance of the office he holds nor the tasks associated with it. He doesn't read. He doesn't bother to peruse important files and intelligence reports and knows little about the issues that he has identified as his priorities. His decisions are capricious and they are delivered in the form of tyrannical decrees.
> 
> He is a man free of morals. As has been demonstrated hundreds of times, he is a liar, a racist and a cheat. I feel ashamed to use these words, as sharp and loud as they are. But if they apply to anyone, they apply to Trump. And one of the media's tasks is to continue telling things as they are: Trump has to be removed from the White House. Quickly. He is a danger to the world.
> 
> Trump is a miserable politician. He fired the FBI director simply because he could. James Comey had gotten under his skin with his investigation into Trump's confidants. Comey had also refused to swear loyalty and fealty to Trump and to abandon the investigation. He had to go.
> 
> Witnessing an American Tragedy
> 
> Trump is also a miserable boss. His people invent excuses for him and lie on his behalf because they have to, but then Trump wakes up and posts tweets that contradict what they have said. He doesn't care that his spokesman, his secretary of state and his national security adviser had just denied that the president had handed Russia (of all countries) sensitive intelligence gleaned from Israel (of all countries). Trump tweeted: Yes, yes, I did, because I can. I'm president after all.
> 
> Nothing is as it should be in this White House. Everyone working there has been compromised multiple times and now they all despise each other - and everyone except for Trump despises Trump. Because of all that, after just 120 days of the Trump administration, we are witness to an American tragedy for which there are five theoretical solutions.
> 
> The first is Trump's resignation, which won't happen. The second is that Republicans in the House and Senate support impeachment, which would be justified by the president's proven obstruction of justice, but won't happen because of the Republicans' thirst for power, which they won't willingly give up. The third possible solution is the invocation of the 25th Amendment, which would require the cabinet to declare Trump unfit to discharge the powers of the presidency. That isn't particularly likely either. Fourth: The Democrats get ready to fight and win back majorities in the House and Senate in midterm elections, which are 18 months away, before they then pursue option two, impeachment. Fifth: the international community wakes up and finds a way to circumvent the White House and free itself of its dependence on the U.S. Unlike the preceding four options, the fifth doesn't directly solve the Trump problem, but it is nevertheless necessary - and possible.
> 
> No Goals and No Strategy
> 
> Not quite two weeks ago, a number of experts and politicians focused on foreign policy met in Washington at the invitation of the Munich Security Conference. It wasn't difficult to sense the atmosphere of chaos and agony that has descended upon the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article you are reading originally appeared in German in issue 21/2017 (May 20, 2017) of DER SPIEGEL.
> The U.S. elected a laughing stock to the presidency and has now made itself dependent on a joke of a man. The country is, as David Brooks wrote recently in the New York Times, dependent on a child. The Trump administration has no foreign policy because Trump has consistently promised American withdrawal while invoking America's strength. He has promised both no wars and more wars. He makes decisions according to his mood, with no strategic coherence or tactical logic. Moscow and Beijing are laughing at America. Elsewhere, people are worried.
> 
> In the Pacific, warships - American and Chinese - circle each other in close proximity. The conflict with North Korea is escalating. Who can be certain that Donald Trump won't risk nuclear war simply to save his own skin? Efforts to stop climate change are in trouble and many expect the U.S. to withdraw from the Paris Agreement because Trump is wary of legally binding measures. Crises, including those in Syria and Libya, are escalating, but no longer being discussed. And who should they be discussed with? Phone calls and emails to the U.S. State Department go unanswered. Nothing is regulated, nothing is stable and the trans-Atlantic relationship hardly exists anymore. German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel and Bundestag Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Norbert Röttgen fly back and forth, but Germany and the U.S. no longer understand each other. Hardly any real communication takes place, there are no joint foreign policy goals and there is no strategy.
> 
> In "Game of Thrones," the Mad King was murdered (and the child that later took his place was no better). In real life, an immature boy sits on the throne of the most important country in the world. He could, at any time, issue a catastrophic order that would immediately be carried out. That is why the parents cannot afford to take their eyes off him even for a second. They cannot succumb to exhaustion because he is so taxing. They ultimately have to send him to his room - and return power to the grownups.
> 
> http://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-menace-to-the-world-opinion-a-1148471.html





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## FeXL

I don't know WTF a Klaus Brinkbäumer is or does but he presents as just another sycophantic Progressive idiot with a political axe to grind.

His opinions are many & his facts are few.

If you find inspiration in this drivel that speaks much about you.

That's all that need be said. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> From Der Spiegel.


----------



## Macfury

_Der Spiegel _is simply angry that Merkel had her nose rubbed in it at the G7. Germany had an outsized role in world affairs when it had Obama as its sycophantic ally. That's evaporated and I'm happy to see it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The rest of the G7 countries see Trump as a bully and a fool. That's all that needs to be said.


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> The rest of the G7 countries see Trump as a bully and a fool. That's all that needs to be said.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, oddly familiar to the Alberta NDP and their mismanagement of the economy and their recent downgrade of Alberta's credit rating. Again. For the fourth time now is it? Same crap, different pile. Same Trump mentality though.

Sent from my iPhone not using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

That's all you want to be said. Truth is, the rest of the G7--save Canada and Britain--has been circling the toilet for years with stagnant growth, high unemployment and more. Time to let them go down the flusher together as they engage in one last group hug.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The rest of the G7 countries see Trump as a bully and a fool. That's all that needs to be said.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

How the world sees Donald Trump.


----------



## Macfury

No doubt they're angry to see someone put their own country ahead of an elite globalist agenda.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL, this will be an interesting trial on the FGM. The defense is trying to get them off on religious beliefs and is no different than circumcision. I hope they nip that in the bud.


The defense is claiming FGM's the same as circumcision? Is this a trial by judge or jury? Either way, I hope he/she/they are somewhat more informed than that.

Years ago, I would have believed in a slam dunk for the prosecution. Nowadays? Not so much...


----------



## FeXL

OK, so let's envision another scenario...

Imagine Bill's Wife, glassy-eyed & coughing her lungs out, stumbling & meandering all over Sicily en route to a group photo. It'd take 'bout a week, 27 aides, 13 park benches, enough pharmaceuticals to choke a horse and a shovel to scrape her respiratory tract off the cobblestones.

#GolfCartGate: Media Freak Out After Trump Rides Golf Cart Through Sicily While Others Walk



> President Trump chose to ride in a golf cart while his foreign counterparts took a walk through Taormina, Sicily on Saturday during the Group of 7 (G7) summit.
> 
> The Times of London reported the six other world leaders - from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan - walked 700 yards to take a group photo at a piazza in a hilltop town. The U.S. leader decided to wait until he could get a golf cart.
> 
> Trump was late for the photo, but joined the other world leaders during the walk down from the piazza.


Seriously? "Trump took a golf cart?" That's all the criticism they can level? These idiots are making the National Enquirer look legit.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump took a golf cart to go 700 metres. That's less than two times around a track. Walking. The man is in pretty bad shape, contrary to his "doctor's" claim that he is the healthiest President ever. 


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## FeXL

There are a myriad of reasons why he chose to ride in the golf cart. I wait with bated breath for you to provide empirical evidence for any of them.

And, Bill's wife (who will _never_ be POTUS) would have needed a gurney, replete with IV stand.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump took a golf cart to go 700 metres. That's less than two times around a track. Walking. The man is in pretty bad shape, contrary to his "doctor's" claim that he is the healthiest President ever.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> There are a myriad of reasons why he chose to ride in the golf cart. I wait with bated breath for you to provide empirical evidence for any of them.
> 
> And, Bill's wife (who will _never_ be POTUS) would have needed a gurney, replete with IV stand.


It's simple... plebes walk.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> How the world sees Donald Trump.


How the world leaders see Justin Trudeau.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=642_1495943653

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## SINC

And then we have this demonstration of maturity.


----------



## Macfury

*Wallflower on the world stage*

Here's the photo. No wishful Photoshopping necessary. Here's how the rest of the G7 treats Justin Trudeau.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> And then we have this demonstration of maturity.


I'm OK with that. Realistically, what would he add the the conversation?


----------



## FeXL

Prog heads exploding everywhere.

EXCLUSIVE: Trump Set To Roll Back Obama’s Cuba Policies



> President Donald Trump is set to announce a rollback of former President Barack Obama’s policies toward Cuba, The Daily Caller has learned.
> 
> Two sources told TheDC that the development is due to the behind-the-scenes efforts of Republican Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Democratic New Jersey Sen. Bob Menendez and Republican Florida Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart.
> 
> This information coming from an anti-embargo group, which spoke on the condition of anonymity, was confirmed Sunday by John Kavulich of the nonpartisan U.S. – Cuba Trade and Economic Council. “The Trump Administration has been ‘ready’ since February 2017 to announce changes, but issues unrelated to Cuba have intervened,” Kavulich said.


----------



## FeXL

Well, of course it is...

Former UNICEF advisor: Female genital mutilation is 'gender egalitarian surgery'



> _Ahmadu told Carlson that she prefers the term "female circumcision" for the practice, during which part or all of a woman's sexual organs are removed for entirely non-medical reasons. She complained that Michigan doctor Jumana Nagarwala was recently arrested for performing a surgery that amounts to "a nick."
> 
> The New York Times reports that the "nick" Nagarwala performed "was so painful that [the girl] screamed and could barely walk afterward."
> 
> "If we do practice genital cutting here in the U.S. on boys, then it should not be impossible to understand that there are cultures, there are societies that practice what certain people are calling gender-inclusive genital surgeries,"Ahmadu argued.
> 
> "I just don't want it in my culture, in my society," Carlson retorted.
> 
> *"Well, in our culture we don't discriminate,"Ahmadu said. "We have gender-egalitarian surgeries."*_​


M'bold.

Why am I not surprised that she held a position at the UN?

More:



> At least some American feminists are reluctant to criticize other cultures that encourage this outrage. The fact that FGM was made a felony in the US only recently speaks to the power of political correctness and the hesitation by some women's groups in the US to judge other cultures.
> 
> For some, politics trumps women's health and well being.


This is precisely why the practice only recently became a US felony, despite the heralding of which by some on these boards as a sort of follow-the-lemming-over-the-cliff thing: "Hell, it wasn't even against the law in the US until 1997!!! Everybody was doing it!!!"

Like the timeframe makes any difference to all the females who have been subjected to this barbaric practice...


----------



## CubaMark

You do seem to have a talent for working yourself into a froth.... We agree that FGM is a horrible practice, so I'm not sure why you're going on (and on, and on...) about this. You seem quite perturbed that FGM only became illegal in 1997... tell me, what year do you think should it have become illegal? When did FGM even enter into the popular discourse in North America? When did *you* first take notice of it? Or is this all just recent blather that you are twisting to toss at those "progs" you like to go on about?

For the record, none of my friends and colleagues who are American Feminists (male or female) are "reluctant to criticize" FGM. Not that it comes up in daily conversation, mind you.

There is a line, ever-moving, that separates recognition and acceptance of cultural differences vs. a person's rights. Hell, even Republicans in the USA are accommodating tradition on a subject that I personally find reprehensible: the marriage of 13-year-old girls.

*Republican refuses to repeal child marriage law allowing girls aged 13 to wed*

According to The Times, Republican David Bates said: "We're asking the legislature to repeal a law that's been on the books for over a century, that's been working without difficulty, on the basis of a request from a minor doing a Girl Scout project."

Local outlets reported Mr Bates had agreed 13 was a young age, but said marriage might be appropriate in special circumstances including pregnancy.

** * **​
Earlier this month, New Jersey governor Chris Christie vetoed a law that would have outlawed child marriage without exception.

"An exclusion without exceptions would violate the cultures and traditions of some communities in New Jersey based on religious traditions," Mr Christie said in a statement.

He sent it back to the state legislature and said there should be an exception so judges could approve marriages for 16- and 17-year-olds.

A 2011 study found that some 9.4 million US women were married before age 16. The study also found that the women were more likely to have psychiatric disorders, and to seek out health services.
(Independent UK)​
*AND* do read this one too:

*11-year-old girl 'forced to marry her rapist' from church in Florida* | The Independent


----------



## Macfury

This stuff cracks me up. Germany increasingly shares fewer and fewer of my "values". When a left-wing kook like Schulz starts feeling alienated, I'm feeling a whole lot better.



> Germany's centre-left chancellor candidate Martin Schulz on Tuesday accused U.S. President Donald Trump of destroying Western values and undermining international cooperation.
> 
> Speaking to reporters in Berlin, Schulz said Trump was "the destroyer of all Western values", adding that the U.S. president was undermining the peaceful cooperation of nations based on mutual respect and tolerance.


German SPD leader calls Trump a destroyer of all Western values | Reuters


----------



## Freddie_Biff

When in doubt, never forget the importance the President places on covfefe. #covfefe

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869766994899468288


----------



## Freddie_Biff

When in doubt, never forget the importance the President places on covfefe. #covfefe

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869766994899468288


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## Macfury

I hope this isn't fake news:

https://www.axios.com/scoop-trump-is-pulling-u-s-out-of-paris-climate-deal-2427773025.html


> President Trump has made his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the decision. Details on how the withdrawal will be executed are being worked out by a small team including EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. They're deciding on whether to initiate a full, formal withdrawal — which could take 3 years — or exit the underlying United Nations climate change treaty, which would be faster but more extreme.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

After much covfefe, Trump has made his decision. 


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## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Man, I am so bored by wizard and elf culture.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I hope this isn't fake news:


Woohoo!

Related:

Trump expected to pull out of Paris climate deal



> Trump had been telling confidants over the past week that he was going to pull out of the deal, a conclusion that was reinforced by a letter he received from 22 Republican senators, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, urging him to ditch it.


----------



## Macfury

Trump showed just how human he is by letting the joke linger for awhile. Good for him!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump showed just how human he is by letting the joke linger for awhile. Good for him!


"Covfefe" is a Yiddish word which means "I have to go to bed now".


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> When in doubt, never forget the importance the President places on covfefe. #covfefe
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869766994899468288
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Covfefe" is a Yiddish word which means "I have to go to bed now". 

For Druids who celebrate Festivus, it is like Boxing Day.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> "Covfefe" is a Yiddish word which means "I have to go to bed now".
> 
> 
> 
> For Druids who celebrate Festivus, it is like Boxing Day.




Funny thing is, I thought there were people to screen his tweets now before he sends them.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny thing is, I thought there were people to screen his tweets now before he sends them.


You read that in mainstream media news sources.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You read that in mainstream media news sources.



Your point?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Trump showed just how human he is by letting the joke linger for awhile. Good for him!


Trump’s Press Secretary Sean Spicer just doubled down on the absurdity. When questioned by reporters about the tweet, Spicer refused to admit it was a simple mistake that had been overlooked, insisting instead that “the president and a small group pf people know exactly what he meant.”


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point?


You were fooled by fake news.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

The casual proliferation of Hitler memes continues to to downplay the terrible abomination of Hitler and WWII Germany. Freddie, you are part of the problem.


----------



## SINC

Yep, a sad example for anyone to set, never mind an educator.


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## Freddie_Biff

You kids need to develop a sense of humour. The world is passing you by. There has been more responses to Trump's "Covfefe" tweet than anything else he has tweeted so fur. Get with the program. Buy a clue. 


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## Macfury

Trivializing Hitler in this way is a disservice to all who suffered under him. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You kids need to develop a sense of humour. The world is passing you by. There has been more responses to Trump's "Covfefe" tweet than anything else he has tweeted so fur. Get with the program. Buy a clue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The casual proliferation of Hitler memes continues to to downplay the terrible abomination of Hitler and WWII Germany. Freddie, you are part of the problem.





SINC said:


> Yep, a sad example for anyone to set, never mind an educator.





Macfury said:


> Trivializing Hitler in this way is a disservice to all who suffered under him.


I have to agree here. I know that some might find the meme funny, but I am not one of them. I especially liked Macfury's comment that "Trivializing Hitler in this way is a disservice to all who suffered under him." 

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You kids need to develop a sense of humour. The world is passing you by. There has been more responses to Trump's "Covfefe" tweet than anything else he has tweeted so fur. Get with the program. Buy a clue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Frank, I have a sense of humor, and see your point about making fun of Pres. Trump's use of the "word" "Covfefe" , but brining in Hitler does not add to the humor. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

It's simply not funny.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You kids need to develop a sense of humour.


Which just goes to show that the left can't find anything of substance to be critical of & has to plumb the depths of misspellings in order to find something to carp about.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There has been more responses to Trump's "Covfefe" tweet than anything else he has tweeted so fur.


----------



## Macfury

And now, after all the back-slapping and braying, we find that Trump deliberately used an Arabic word he learned on his recent diplomatic trip:


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> It's simply not funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Which just goes to show that the left can't find anything of substance to be critical of & has to plumb the depths of misspellings in order to find something to carp about.


Agreed that it is not funny, but this is not a "left" issue. I fear the extreme right/neo-Nazi movements that praise Hitler and what he wrote in "My Struggle". These people would find your views unacceptable. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Agreed that it is not funny, but this is not a "left" issue. I fear the extreme right/neo-Nazi movements that praise Hitler and what he wrote in "My Struggle". These people would find your views unacceptable. Paix, mon ami.


Dr. G, Im not so sure about that. There is an underground view that Trump leans more to the Neo side of things than not. But that said, if we make light of certain things over time we become desensitised to them....sooner or later we either stop listening or simply ignore them....and that is a very dangerous practice.

Genocide has gone on for years, and WE in what many call the West our acknowledge it goes on but "on in uncivilised" and Third World countries......however the lesson with the Nazis is Germany wasn't a Third World...if it can happen there it can happen anywhere and we must look out for it. Humour often is the beachhead for social change......


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Dr. G, Im not so sure about that. There is an underground view that Trump leans more to the Neo side of things than not. But that said, if we make light of certain things over time we become desensitised to them....sooner or later we either stop listening or simply ignore them....and that is a very dangerous practice.
> 
> 
> 
> Genocide has gone on for years, and WE in what many call the West our acknowledge it goes on but "on in uncivilised" and Third World countries......however the lesson with the Nazis is Germany wasn't a Third World...if it can happen there it can happen anywhere and we must look out for it. Humour often is the beachhead for social change......



Well put, Rps. Those who ignore the signs of a coming tyranny are doomed to repeat the pattern of past tyrannies. Hitler didn't take control of Germany because he was disliked; he took control because of his populist rhetoric, not unlike our tangerine friend down south. Anyone who ignores the signs is a fool.


----------



## Rps

Hi Frank, at issue is the "belief system" that the extreme right have. Take the recent, and in extremely poor taste, beheading gag by Griffin. Yes it was a poor choice in humour, but look at the fact that the "horror" of what it represents, the behind the scenes of it if you will. Surely no one would find that funny or even satirical. Ultras would be horrified and openly attack the Mids and Lefts......no mention, however of the gags and such when Obama was in power the cartoons and effigies of lynching, assassination and such. We have become a society of the uncompromising and this breeds haterd in my opinion. We are intolerant of tolerance..... much I blame on ourselves for being so easily lead by mass media's infotainment approach to informing and "forming" us.


----------



## Macfury

Your understanding of history is extremely facile, Freddie. You said nothing here when Obama floated a trial balloon to create a federal police force with a power equal to the army. That goes way beyond rhetoric. Were you a fool for ignoring those signs?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well put, Rps. Those who ignore the signs of a coming tyranny are doomed to repeat the pattern of past tyrannies. Hitler didn't take control of Germany because he was disliked; he took control because of his populist rhetoric, not unlike our tangerine friend down south. Anyone who ignores the signs is a fool.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Humour often is the beachhead for social change......


Not when it's wielded by punks who have no skin in the game, but just like to laugh and bray, because y'know, Hitler jokes are funny..


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Not when it's wielded by punks who have no skin in the game, but just like to laugh and bray, because y'know, Hitler jokes are funny..


In a way, you made my point.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> In a way, you made my point.


How?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, Im not so sure about that. There is an underground view that Trump leans more to the Neo side of things than not. But that said, if we make light of certain things over time we become desensitised to them....sooner or later we either stop listening or simply ignore them....and that is a very dangerous practice.
> 
> Genocide has gone on for years, and WE in what many call the West our acknowledge it goes on but "on in uncivilised" and Third World countries......however the lesson with the Nazis is Germany wasn't a Third World...if it can happen there it can happen anywhere and we must look out for it. Humour often is the beachhead for social change......


Rp, Pres. Trump is a progressive when compared to some in the neo-Nazi movement.

I agree with your contention re "it could happen here". Sinclair Lewis would agree. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I agree with your contention re "it could happen here". Sinclair Lewis would agree. Paix, mon ami.


It can happen anywhere that government is powerful enough to make it happen. (That's why I'm a libertarian.)


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> How?


As you say, Hitler jokes are funny, especially when spoken by punks with no skin in the game.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> It can happen anywhere that government is powerful enough to make it happen. (That's why I'm a libertarian.)


The fact you are a libertarian is meaningless....hegemony is hegemony no matter who spouts it. What we need to watch for is when someone moves from an "ism" to an "ist"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> As you say, Hitler jokes are funny, especially when spoken by punks with no skin in the game.



Comparisons to Hitler are entirely fair. He didn't start by having millions of people murdered; that came later. He started as a populist leader, many people did not take him seriously, and then became the tyrannical dictator as time wore on. Trump seems to be displaying many of the steps from the Hitler playbook, starting with gaslighting with respect to what the press reports. Consider who his closest advisors are, such as Steve Bannon. Consider the influence. To ignore the lessons of history puts one in a vulnerable position to repeat those mistakes.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Comparisons to Hitler are entirely fair. He didn't start by having millions of people murdered; that came later. He started as a populist leader, many people did not take him seriously, and then became the tyrannical dictator as time wore on. Trump seems to be displaying many of the steps from the Hitler playbook, starting with gaslighting with respect to what the press reports. Consider who his closest advisors are, such as Steve Bannon. Consider the influence. To ignore the lessons of history puts one in a vulnerable position to repeat those mistakes.


Let's be fair. Germany was in upheaval after WW1, the Kaiser era was gone and the
reparations made after the war were punitive to say the least.....ripe grounds for a populist leader to emerge. Trump and the U.S. are hardly an after WW1 Germany. No the real cause for concern is ignorance.....not delving into issues to make informed judgements.....don't blame the media for our failings....


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The fact you are a libertarian is meaningless....hegemony is hegemony no matter who spouts it. What we need to watch for is when someone moves from an "ism" to an "ist"


Not at all. I wouldn't give government enough power to dominate anyone.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> As you say, Hitler jokes are funny, especially when spoken by punks with no skin in the game.


No, I said they laugh and bray at the jokes, not that they are funny.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> No, I said they laugh and bray at the jokes, not that they are funny.


Sorry MacFury, I misread.


----------



## Macfury

Great news!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...withdrawal-from-landmark-paris-climate-accord

I love these big business tycoons, engorged like ticks, who thought they were going to enrich themselves on carbon taxes now crying the blues that the "Paris Accord" was a moral imperative.

Don't think there's much of Obama left now. It's like a bad dream that's ending at the break of dawn!


----------



## Macfury

Illinois, one of three great Democrat strongholds of America, is just about bankrupt...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-to-one-step-above-junk-by-s-p-over-stalemate



> Illinois had its bond rating downgraded to one step above junk by Moody’s Investors Service and S&P Global Ratings, the lowest ranking on record for a U.S. state, as the long-running political stalemate over the budget shows no signs of ending.
> 
> S&P warned that Illinois will likely losing its investment-grade status, an unprecedented step for a state, around July 1 if leaders haven’t agreed on a budget that chips away at the government’s chronic deficits. Moody’s followed S&P’s downgrade Thursday, citing Illinois’s underfunded pensions and the record backlog of bills that are equivalent to about 40 percent of its operating budget.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Let's be fair. Germany was in upheaval after WW1, the Kaiser era was gone and the
> 
> reparations made after the war were punitive to say the least.....ripe grounds for a populist leader to emerge. Trump and the U.S. are hardly an after WW1 Germany. No the real cause for concern is ignorance.....not delving into issues to make informed judgements.....don't blame the media for our failings....



Absolutely agree on the ignorance thing. And making knee jerk decisions that can affect millions of lives is a tremendous amount of responsibility for such a man-child.


----------



## Macfury

You're stuck looking at this through the dependent, progressive lens. Obama treated voters as clients for welfare services. Trump treats them like adult men and women.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely agree on the ignorance thing. And making knee jerk decisions that can affect millions of lives is a tremendous amount of responsibility for such a man-child.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It can happen anywhere that government is powerful enough to make it happen. (That's why I'm a libertarian.)


A valid point, Macfury. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hurricane season starts with nobody in charge at FEMA or NOAA | Tampa Bay Times

This could be dangerous. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Hurricane season starts with nobody in charge at FEMA or NOAA | Tampa Bay Times
> 
> This could be dangerous. We shall see.


FEMA was bad enough when someone was in charge. Given Trump's track record of appointing heads of agencies, this could be epically apocalyptic (if you'll forgive the hyperbole).

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."​*-President George W. Bush*​


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Are you being deliberately dense, Spock--or did you miss the news?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Are you being deliberately dense, Spock--or did you miss the news?


Is FeXL sharing his "sources" with you again, MacFury? 

*Trump fans have convinced themselves ‘covfefe’ was a secret Arabic message against terrorism*

_*AND*_

*No, ‘Covfefe’ Was Not Trump Speaking Arabic*

The internet is full of confident people who do not know what they are talking about. The latest example: a conviction spreading in right-leaning social media communities that a garbled tweet by the president — he wrote “covfefe” — was not a late-night typo but was instead Mr. Trump sending a message to the world in Arabic.

“Covfefe,” these people on the internet insist, is Arabic for “I will stand up.” That is not even close to true. We asked Ali Adeeb Alnaemi, a professor of Arabic at New York University, what he thought of this translation, which has been falsely spread online by anonymous Reddit users with screen names like “PepeTheRacistFrog.”

** * **​
Mr. Alnaemi, who previously worked for The New York Times in Baghdad, made a good-faith effort to see where this mistranslation may have come from. In a phone interview, he repeated the word “covfefe” several times before finally laughing. “Come on,” he said. “I’m sorry. No.”

** * **​
But what did the president mean? Mr. Alnaemi said the word “covfefe” was “something meaningless” in Arabic, a language that Mr. Trump, who campaigned on a pledge to ban Muslims from the United States, has never publicly claimed to speak.

There is no standardized method for rendering Arabic words in Latin script, but the professor said if Mr. Trump had wanted to write “I will stand up” in Arabic he would have written something like “saqef” or “sawfa aqef."

“Honestly when I heard that some writers thought Trump was speaking Arabic I said to myself, ‘Wow, they know Arabic more than I do,’” Mr. Alnaemi, who was born and raised in Iraq, said. “Because I cannot think of a word that would mean the equivalent of ‘covfefe.’”​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Is FeXL sharing his "sources" with you again, MacFury?
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump fans have convinced themselves ‘covfefe’ was a secret Arabic message against terrorism*
> 
> 
> 
> _*AND*_
> 
> 
> 
> *No, ‘Covfefe’ Was Not Trump Speaking Arabic*
> 
> 
> 
> The internet is full of confident people who do not know what they are talking about. The latest example: a conviction spreading in right-leaning social media communities that a garbled tweet by the president — he wrote “covfefe” — was not a late-night typo but was instead Mr. Trump sending a message to the world in Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> “Covfefe,” these people on the internet insist, is Arabic for “I will stand up.” That is not even close to true. We asked Ali Adeeb Alnaemi, a professor of Arabic at New York University, what he thought of this translation, which has been falsely spread online by anonymous Reddit users with screen names like “PepeTheRacistFrog.”
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> Mr. Alnaemi, who previously worked for The New York Times in Baghdad, made a good-faith effort to see where this mistranslation may have come from. In a phone interview, he repeated the word “covfefe” several times before finally laughing. “Come on,” he said. “I’m sorry. No.”
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> But what did the president mean? Mr. Alnaemi said the word “covfefe” was “something meaningless” in Arabic, a language that Mr. Trump, who campaigned on a pledge to ban Muslims from the United States, has never publicly claimed to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no standardized method for rendering Arabic words in Latin script, but the professor said if Mr. Trump had wanted to write “I will stand up” in Arabic he would have written something like “saqef” or “sawfa aqef."
> 
> 
> 
> “Honestly when I heard that some writers thought Trump was speaking Arabic I said to myself, ‘Wow, they know Arabic more than I do,’” Mr. Alnaemi, who was born and raised in Iraq, said. “Because I cannot think of a word that would mean the equivalent of ‘covfefe.’”​



Boy, he really gets grumpy, doesn't he? Macfury, I mean. Even more that Trump if that's possible.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Is FeXL sharing his "sources" with you again, MacFury?


No, Google Translate is sharing its translation with me. 

https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/cov fe'fe


----------



## Freddie_Biff

You don't trust the mainstream media, but you're willing to put your faith in Google Translate? Boy, there's one born every minute. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://youtu.be/BfIKEuUhpm8


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> https://youtu.be/BfIKEuUhpm8


Looks like an interesting "treat".


----------



## FeXL

I agree. Juthdin's an idiot...



Freddie_Biff said:


> And making knee jerk decisions that can affect millions of lives is a tremendous amount of responsibility for such a man-child.


----------



## Macfury

IS that's the best you got?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You don't trust the mainstream media, but you're willing to put your faith in Google Translate? Boy, there's one born every minute.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> Is FeXL sharing his "sources" with you again, MacFury?
> 
> *Trump fans have convinced themselves ‘covfefe’ was a secret Arabic message against terrorism*
> 
> _*AND*_
> 
> *No, ‘Covfefe’ Was Not Trump Speaking Arabic*
> 
> The internet is full of confident people who do not know what they are talking about. The latest example: a conviction spreading in right-leaning social media communities that a garbled tweet by the president — he wrote “covfefe” — was not a late-night typo but was instead Mr. Trump sending a message to the world in Arabic.
> 
> “Covfefe,” these people on the internet insist, is Arabic for “I will stand up.” That is not even close to true. We asked Ali Adeeb Alnaemi, a professor of Arabic at New York University, what he thought of this translation, which has been falsely spread online by anonymous Reddit users with screen names like “PepeTheRacistFrog.”
> 
> ** * **​
> Mr. Alnaemi, who previously worked for The New York Times in Baghdad, made a good-faith effort to see where this mistranslation may have come from. In a phone interview, he repeated the word “covfefe” several times before finally laughing. “Come on,” he said. “I’m sorry. No.”
> 
> ** * **​
> But what did the president mean? Mr. Alnaemi said the word “covfefe” was “something meaningless” in Arabic, a language that Mr. Trump, who campaigned on a pledge to ban Muslims from the United States, has never publicly claimed to speak.
> 
> There is no standardized method for rendering Arabic words in Latin script, but the professor said if Mr. Trump had wanted to write “I will stand up” in Arabic he would have written something like “saqef” or “sawfa aqef."
> 
> “Honestly when I heard that some writers thought Trump was speaking Arabic I said to myself, ‘Wow, they know Arabic more than I do,’” Mr. Alnaemi, who was born and raised in Iraq, said. “Because I cannot think of a word that would mean the equivalent of ‘covfefe.’”​


" I am a donut"!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> IS that's the best you got?



I think we may need Google Translate for your grammar.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think we may need Google Translate for your grammar.


We need new glasses on this end--Cutler & Gross if you please. Or a fundraiser for laser eye surgery!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> We need new glasses on this end--Cutler & Gross if you please. Or a fundraiser for laser eye surgery!


----------



## FeXL

Typical. Still everybody's fault but hers...

DNC exec publicly (if momentarily) blasts Hillary for blameshifting her failure



> Yesterday, Hillary Clinton expanded her list of entities to blame for her loss to the DNC, and … that may prove to be yet another big mistake by the worst candidate in 2016. As John noted in his post last night, Hillary claimed to have “inherit[ed] nothing” as the Democratic nominee, and that she “had to inject money into it — the DNC — to keep it going.” In particular, Hillary ripped the data efforts at the DNC, calling their results “mediocre to poor, non-existent, wrong.”
> 
> Andrew Therriault made it clear that he has no intention of serving as Hillary Clinton’s scapegoat — at least for a little while. The former Director of Data Science for the DNC took to Twitter early this morning to castigate the two-time fumbler on presidential elections for her “f****** b***s***” accusations.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

About time, too.

‘Pastafarian’ Successfully Gets Driver’s License Photo Wearing Colander on His Head



> Religious freedom for some, or religious freedom for all?
> 
> That’s the question Pastafarians have to ask themselves everyday living in the so- called free United States of America. This subjugated monotheistic religious minority believe a giant, omniscient spaghetti monster that lives in the sky created the universe and has complete control of its fate.
> 
> This week, Arizona man Sean Corbett won an important victory for his proud, storied religion. The member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster successfully attained a state driver’s license while wearing a colander on his head. He received his license in the mail Tuesday.


You go, Sean!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Typical. Still everybody's fault but hers...
> 
> 
> 
> DNC exec publicly (if momentarily) blasts Hillary for blameshifting her failure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:




Perhaps you'd care to explain why Trump lost the popular vote by such a wide margin if you really think he was the people's choice.


----------



## SINC

Yawn. 

He won the election legally under the American electoral system. Nothing else matters or makes any difference or he wouldn't be in the White House.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Yawn.
> 
> He won the election legally under the American electoral system. Nothing else matters or makes any difference or he wouldn't be in the White House.


Sadly, all too true ................ unless/until the Republicans in Congress see his presidency as a liability. Then, ALL bets are off. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Yawn.
> 
> 
> 
> He won the election legally under the American electoral system. Nothing else matters or makes any difference or he wouldn't be in the White House.



It matters to him. Why do you think he goes on and on about illegal voters? It matters to him the same way Fleance's escape mattered to Macbeth.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> It matters to him. Why do you think he goes on and on about illegal voters? It matters to him the same way Fleance's escape mattered to Macbeth.


I think it matters more to you than anyone else.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think it matters more to you than anyone else.




Ms very mature comment. Clearly an actual consideration of Trump's motivations is beyond you at this time.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ms very mature comment. Clearly an actual consideration of Trump's motivations is beyond you at this time.


it doesn't matter how many goals a hockey team scores in the Stanley Cup finals--it's how many games they win. You can bitch and moan about how unfair it is that Hillary got a lot of votes in California and it didn't help her, but Trump beat your candidate. Nothing more needs to be said.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> it doesn't matter how many goals a hockey team scores in the Stanley Cup finals--it's how many games they win. You can bitch and moan about how unfair it is that Hillary got a lot of votes in California and it didn't help her, but Trump beat your candidate. Nothing more needs to be said.



I'm not advocating for Hillary. I was a Bernie supporter. More to the point, I'm advocating for not-Trump. And given the way the orange buffoon has embarrassed the office and the country he represents, it's clear that his win was a mistake, justified or not.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not advocating for Hillary. I was a Bernie supporter. More to the point, I'm advocating for not-Trump. And given the way the orange buffoon has embarrassed the office andtge country he represents, it's clear that his son was a mistake, justified it not.


I'm not embarrassed and neither are many Trump voters. Ending the Paris Accord and appointing Gorsuch to the Supreme Court means that Trump has already succeeded beyond anything I had hoped for. All else will be gravy.

It doesn't matter who you advocated for--that person lost, Bernie worse than Hillary. Repeating again and again HOW they lost probably won't make you feel better.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Some people perceive that Donald Trump can do no wrong, including himself. This is why he never apologizes. It is a bizarre world these people live in from my point of view. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people perceive that Donald Trump can do no wrong, including himself. This is why he never apologizes. It is a bizarre world these people live in from my point of view.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sad, but all too true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Yup. Like Obama who admitted only that he did not explain his brilliant ideas well enough for people to understand how brilliant they were. It's bizarre that you never noticed this.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Some people perceive that Donald Trump can do no wrong, including himself. This is why he never apologizes. It is a bizarre world these people live in from my point of view.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Sad, but all too true. Paix, mon ami.




Love the IKEA thingy!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Love the IKEA thingy!


Particle board and melamine would be a no-go for the coming wall.


----------



## Rps

Ah politics! What a polarising figure Trump has become. Yet for all his bluster he really hasn't done anything yet. And since he hasn't done anything maybe he has taken a lesson from the old Liberal Playbook.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Love the IKEA thingy!


And it takes only ONE key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Particle board and melamine would be a no-go for the coming wall.


How true, mon ami. Still, it would be a great deal cheaper and have the same effect. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Ah politics! What a polarising figure Trump has become. Yet for all his bluster he really hasn't done anything yet. And since he hasn't done anything maybe he has taken a lesson from the old Liberal Playbook.


What??????????? Trump has made America think that it is great again, and he somehow even got elected in the first place. That HAS to count for something.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Ah politics! What a polarising figure Trump has become. Yet for all his bluster he really hasn't done anything yet. And since he hasn't done anything maybe he has taken a lesson from the old Liberal Playbook.


This is wrong. You underestimate the importance of kicking the Paris Accord in the teeth and appointing Gorsuch in addition to dozens of executive orders. This may be nothing to you, but represents a profound achievement to others.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> This is wrong. You underestimate the importance of kicking the Paris Accord in the teeth and appointing Gorsuch in addition to dozens of executive orders. This may be nothing to you, but represents a profound achievement to others.


Where to start. Okay the Paris Accord.....who cares the whole thing is a showmanship sham. The Accord was voluntary, loosely governed, and deeply flawed when compared to the real world issues. It's like having a marriage vow that states "I may" instead of I promise. So it's no real big deal really.

As for Executive Orders, they are meaning less as they are date stamped and some haven't gotten into legislation yet. No long term issues here.

Gorsuch, again, will tell over time. I dare say this action may have a long term effect I agree here.


----------



## 18m2

Trumps wall may possibly be a visual wall if this guys product is successful ... https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/05/palmer-luckey-virtual-border-wall/


----------



## Macfury

18m2 said:


> Trumps wall may possibly be a visual wall if this guys product is successful ... https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/05/palmer-luckey-virtual-border-wall/


That makes good sense provided that agents are able to reach the entry points in time to apprehend the crossers.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Okay the Paris Accord.....who cares the whole thing is a showmanship sham. The Accord was voluntary, loosely governed, and deeply flawed when compared to the real world issues. It's like having a marriage vow that states "I may" instead of I promise. So it's no real big deal really.


Actually, it _may_ have been a big deal & it _may not_ have been as voluntary for the US as first blush reveals. I ran across this a few days back:

h/t AoS (see also the update at the bottom of the page)

The Treaty on Treaties and the Paris Accord



> So in summary, the Paris Accord is not a treaty, but yet it could end up being enforced as one because of our own law called the treaty on treaties, which simply says that *if we announce support in principle, that if we sign an ancillary document promising to do what we can, that is the same thing as the Senate ratifying it with two-thirds of the Senate voting.*


M'bold.

I found that pretty interesting.

Related:

Don’t Stop With Paris


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> This is wrong. You underestimate the importance of kicking the Paris Accord in the teeth and appointing Gorsuch in addition to dozens of executive orders. This may be nothing to you, but represents a profound achievement to others.


Talk about a "kick in the teeth", but imagine when Pres. Trump's travel ban goes to the Supreme Court for a final ruling as to it's legality and Justice Gorsuch casts the deciding vote .................. against the ban!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pres. Trump will go ballistic and won't be able to blame the Democrats, Pres. Obama, Hillary Clinton , et al for this nomination. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That makes good sense provided that agents are able to reach the entry points in time to apprehend the crossers.


They could employ high powered lasers and NOT have them on stun. There are many such lasers sitting around the Pentagon warehouses from the Reagan Star Wars initiative to knock out Soviet weapons.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> What??????????? Trump has made America think that it is great again, and he somehow even got elected in the first place. That HAS to count for something.



Trump has already Made America Covfefe Again! 

Or is that he has Made Covfefe Great Again! 

https://youtu.be/soUGXXH2Vps


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Talk about a "kick in the teeth", but imagine when Pres. Trump's travel ban goes to the Supreme Court for a final ruling as to it's legality and Justice Gorsuch casts the deciding vote .................. against the ban!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pres. Trump will go ballistic and won't be able to blame the Democrats, Pres. Obama, Hillary Clinton , et al for this nomination. We shall see.


The travel ban is not illegal and the 9th Circuit has said as much. Read their bizarre ruling.


----------



## FeXL

A feature, not a bug.

Elon Musk says he’s leaving White House councils as Trump quits Paris climate deal



> Tesla CEO Elon Musk followed through on a threat to leave his roles on a pair of White House councils after President Donald Trump pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord on Thursday.
> 
> Minutes after Trump’s announcement in the White House Rose Garden, Musk tweeted, “am departing presidential councils.”


Related:

Tesla Inc. Spent $565K Lobbying for Fed Subsidies Musk Says He Doesn’t Need



> Tesla Inc. has spent more than $100,000 lobbying specifically on issues related to electronic vehicles and $450,000 lobbying the federal government overall over the last year and a half, according to lobbying disclosure records.
> 
> *Despite the expenditures, Tesla CEO Elon Musk insists the company does not need such breaks.* Musk publicly rebuked President Trump last week when announcing his decision to quit a White House advisory board over Trump's decision to leave the Paris climate accord.


M'bold.

In that case (he's already rec'd north of $5 billion in subsidies)...


----------



## Rps

FeXL, I'm still struggling whether the Paris Accord is a treaty....We are caught up in the as well. I still think that Accord was just a public relations ploy and it is a sham. So, the treaty on treaty may not apply. This would be different, say than NAFTA which has a withdrawal process.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> FeXL, I'm still struggling whether the Paris Accord is a treaty....We are caught up in the as well. I still think that Accord was just a public relations ploy and it is a sham. So, the treaty on treaty may not apply. This would be different, say than NAFTA which has a withdrawal process.


President Nixon signed the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. It sidesteps the Constitution to bind Americans to a treaty without the benefit of a vote.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump has already Made America Covfefe Again!
> 
> Or is that he has Made Covfefe Great Again!
> 
> https://youtu.be/soUGXXH2Vps


:lmao::clap::lmao:

As I said, it is also a Yiddish word which means "I need to get to sleep now". Shalom mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The travel ban is not illegal and the 9th Circuit has said as much. Read their bizarre ruling.


Well, as least Comey's testimony on Thursday will take everyone's mind off of the "ban" and covfefe. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, as least Comey's testimony on Thursday will take everyone's mind off of the "ban" and covfefe. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


Comey already stated under oath that nobody attempted to influence his investigations. Either he repeats that or explains why he perjured himself earlier and violated his oath of office.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Comey already stated under oath that nobody attempted to influence his investigations. Either he repeats that or explains why he perjured himself earlier and violated his oath of office.


We shall see, mon ami. Comey-mania is starting to take hold of DC.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We shall see, mon ami. Comey-mania is starting to take hold of DC.


It's taking hold of desperate Dems who demanded his firing months ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's taking hold of desperate Dems who demanded his firing months ago.


Actually, according to Fox News, it seems to be the Republican members of Congress who are up for re-election in Nov.of 2018 that are starting to worry about the can of worms that this is going to open, and that it will go on and on and on until the mid-term elections. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Actually, according to Fox News, it seems to be the Republican members of Congress who are up for re-election in Nov.of 2018 that are starting to worry about the can of worms that this is going to open, and that it will go on and on and on until the mid-term elections. We shall see.


Sure.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Sure.


I am waiting for Pres. Trump to call Fox News "False News" or "Faux News". Then, what will he watch in the mornings?????


----------



## Dr.G.

I have been invited to attend a Comey Covfefe on Thursday. Sadly, it is being held in Washington, DC, and it is too expensive for me to attend. Still, I hear that they will be having these gatherings all over America. Should be interesting.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...8359dee_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

First Fox News sounded the alarm, and now the Washington Post. Who is next? Briebart.com???????


----------



## Dr.G.

Lest we forget. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The article is just part of an Establishment/Media fake news narrative on Russian hacking, etc. It essentially says nothing. It's just designed to keep the word "Russian" in the news.





Macfury said:


> There's little of substance in the article. Anyone familiar with current events could see through the innuendo. If you're an Establishment type, this looks like real news.



*Top-Secret NSA Report Details Russian Hacking Effort Days Before 2016 Election*

Russian military intelligence executed a cyberattack on at least one U.S. voting software supplier and sent spear-phishing emails to more than 100 local election officials just days before last November’s presidential election, according to a highly classified intelligence report obtained by The Intercept.

The top-secret National Security Agency document, which was provided anonymously to The Intercept and independently authenticated, analyzes intelligence very recently acquired by the agency about a months-long Russian intelligence cyber effort against elements of the U.S. election and voting infrastructure. The report, dated May 5, 2017, is the most detailed U.S. government account of Russian interference in the election that has yet come to light.

While the document provides a rare window into the NSA’s understanding of the mechanics of Russian hacking, it does not show the underlying “raw” intelligence on which the analysis is based. A U.S. intelligence officer who declined to be identified cautioned against drawing too big a conclusion from the document because a single analysis is not necessarily definitive.

(The Intercept via Cryptogon)​


----------



## Macfury

Glad you included most of the quotes associated with that report. It's not very convincing. Also note recent reports that US security agencies were acting as foreign hackers to conduct surveillance on the US. Exactly what were those pesky Russkies supposed to be doing here anyway? Stealing credit cards?


----------



## FeXL

This is my schadenfreude smile —>

"I Was The Victim": Hillary Blames DNC, NYT, "1,000 Russian Agents," Comey And WikiLeaks For Loss



> Earlier today Hillary Clinton offered up what some have described as one of the most delusional interviews of all time at Recode's CodeCon conference, in which she blamed everything and everyone, including but certainly not limited to: FBI Director Comey, "1,000s of Russian agents", right-wing media outlets, Russia, sexism, WikiLeaks, Russia, a funding deficit at the DNC, the Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United, the New York Times (yes, the NYT) ...oh, and Russia, for her 2016 election loss. *And while she certainly "takes responsibility" for every decision she made, Hillary desperately wants you to understand that's not why she lost...because, you know, Russia.*


Links' bold.

Related:

Hillary: The Girl Can’t Take It



> The Hillary Clinton whinefest continues. I had hoped that like the falling out of favor Kardashians and Caitlyn (aka Bruce) Jenner, she’d just start fading out of an audience, but she feels compelled to keep complaining about all those who cost her the election. This week she blamed James Comey and “Russian” hackers for her loss.


----------



## Rps

FeXL, getting back to what is a treaty (Paris Accord), as I say I not sure it really is a treaty...this is from a Current History article..

Similarly, no less than Anne-Marie Slaughter, past president of the American Society of International Law (among other things), wrote:

The international legal gold standard is a treaty, a binding document that can be enforced by courts and arbitration tribunals. Such agreements comprise more than expressions of intent; they contain codified, enforceable rules, along with sanctions for non-compliance. Indeed, they must be ratified by national parliaments, so that they become a part of domestic law.

The Paris agreement is none of these things. In the United States, as a matter of domestic law, it is an executive agreement, binding only on President Barack Obama’s administration. An executive-legislative agreement would have the same status as a treaty, except that a treaty must be ratified by two-thirds of the Senate, whereas an executive-legislative agreement must be adopted by the Senate and the House under the same rules that apply to all domestic legislation. An executive agreement made by one administration is not necessarily binding on its successor, but it would have to be explicitly repudiated.


----------



## Macfury

Get used to saying it... Madame President!


----------



## CubaMark

I find this fascination with Hilary to getting pretty close to misogynism. 

Hilary was a rotten Democratic candidate (but still oh-so-much better than The Buffoon-in-Chief). Regardless, she's now passed into the "yesterday's news" category.

And none of this obsessive rehashing of how happy you are that she isn't President ain't gonna shine up that pig you admire.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> I find this fascination with Hilary to getting pretty close to misogynism.
> 
> Hilary was a rotten Democratic candidate (but still oh-so-much better than The Buffoon-in-Chief). Regardless, she's now passed into the "yesterday's news" category.
> 
> And none of this obsessive rehashing of how happy you are that she isn't President ain't gonna shine up that pig you admire.


CubaMark, I am certainly not a Trump fan, but I am not so sure he is as dumb as you say. Yes, he lacks presidential refinement, and even knowledge on the subtlest of politics, but his recent foreign excursion may actually be a success....provided you understand his agenda. He will learn and grow into his position.....you may not like his policies but let's see what he will actually do. So far his actions, I still maintain, are minimal....let's see how he handles Budget and SC challenges.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> An executive agreement made by one administration is not necessarily binding on its successor, but it would have to be explicitly repudiated.


Yes, this is why Trump had to officially repudiate it--to prevent the bureaucracy, including the EPA, from trying to enforce its provisions.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL, getting back to what is a treaty (Paris Accord), as I say I not sure it really is a treaty...this is from a Current History article.


Thx for the update.


----------



## FeXL

So, just to make sure I hadn't missed some recent upgrade in the definition of misogyny I checked 6 online references, including the Urban Dictionary, and none of them say anything about one taking great pleasure in the self-inflicted downfall of another as a definition of misogyny. Neither do any of them say anything about laughing one's backside off at the constant denial that she had anything even tangentially related to her own downfall. Nor do any of them say anything about celebrating the fact that Bill's Wife will never be President of the United States.

You may wish to go back & reacquaint yourself with the actual definition of misogyny.



CubaMark said:


> I find this fascination with Hilary to getting pretty close to misogynism.


Bill's Wife was the best thing that could have happened to both the Dems & the Reps. I truly believe that. She was perfect.

And, I'd leave her in yesterday's trash bin but she refuses to be relegated there. As such, her bull$h!t is open season & no bag limit.



CubaMark said:


> Hilary was a rotten Democratic candidate (but still oh-so-much better than The Buffoon-in-Chief). Regardless, she's now passed into the "yesterday's news" category.


Apples, oranges.



CubaMark said:


> And none of this obsessive rehashing of how happy you are that she isn't President ain't gonna shine up that pig you admire.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I am certainly not a Trump fan, but I am not so sure he is as dumb as you say. Yes, he lacks presidential refinement, and even knowledge on the subtlest of politics, but his recent foreign excursion may actually be a success....provided you understand his agenda. He will learn and grow into his position.....you may not like his policies but let's see what he will actually do. So far his actions, I still maintain, are minimal....let's see how he handles Budget and SC challenges.


I suspect if Hillary would stop touring and publicly blaming others for her stunning defeat, people would quickly lose interest.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Who'da guessed?

13 Alabama counties saw 85 percent drop in food stamp participation after work requirements restarted



> Thirteen previously exempted Alabama counties saw an 85 percent drop in food stamp participation after work requirements were put in place on Jan. 1, according to the Alabama Department of Human Resources.


More:



> Statewide, the number of able-bodied adults receiving food stamps has fallen by almost 35,000 people since Jan. 1, 2016.


And no reports of anybody starving to death? :yikes:


----------



## Rps

And now for something completely the same....

https://youtu.be/Hz7SfkhJe74


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And now for something completely the same....
> 
> https://youtu.be/Hz7SfkhJe74


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And now for something completely the same....
> 
> https://youtu.be/Hz7SfkhJe74


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UW2ZndKqcg&feature=share[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UW2ZndKqcg&feature=share[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump is now raging at Jeff Sessions. This hints at a deeply unsettling pattern.



> Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor of history at New York University who writes extensively on authoritarianism and Italian fascism, told me that a discernible trait of authoritarian and autocratic rulers is ongoing “frustration” with the “inability to make others do their bidding” and with “institutional and bureaucratic procedures and checks and balances.”
> 
> “Trump doesn’t respect democratic procedure and finds it to be something that gets in his way,” Ben-Ghiat said. “The blaming of others is very typical of autocrats, because they have difficulty listening to a reality that doesn’t coincide with their version of it. It’s part of the authoritarian temperament to blame others when things aren’t working.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rm=.b04b404494a9&wpisrc=nl_most-draw16&wpmm=1


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is now raging at Jeff Sessions. This hints at a deeply unsettling pattern.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rm=.b04b404494a9&wpisrc=nl_most-draw16&wpmm=1


I thought that this was just more "fake news", but then I heard it on Fox News. So, unless Fox News has bailed on the president, or he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole of his own making. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I suspect if Hillary would stop touring and publicly blaming others for her stunning defeat, people would quickly lose interest.


It seems almost certain that Seth Rich was the leak, that swamped Hiliaries canoe. Hiliary can take comfort that Seth was rewarded for his efforts with terminal Arkanicide. That said even if it were the Russians, it was still her own shenanigans that repulsed voters. 

It comes down to the fact that the leak revealed the truth, and it may have cost her the election. Blame the Russians and forget all those foreign nations where the US has interfered. Sometimes to the extent of bombing nations back to the stone age. As a matter of fact Hiliary was directly responsible for that very thing in Libya, and was urging a similar approach to Syria. Sadly the carrot top did not stand by his own campaign rhetoric on the latter.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that this was just more "fake news", but then I heard it on Fox News. So, unless Fox News has bailed on the president, or he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole of his own making. We shall see.



The truth will prevail, despite the White House's attempts to suppress it.


----------



## Macfury

What did Trump say about Sessions?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is now raging at Jeff Sessions. This hints at a deeply unsettling pattern.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rm=.b04b404494a9&wpisrc=nl_most-draw16&wpmm=1


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> What did Trump say about Sessions?


President Donald Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions have had a series of heated exchanges in the last several weeks, after Sessions recused himself from the Russia probe, a source close to Sessions told Fox News. Seems as if Pres. Trump feels that Sessions, et al, work for him .............. rather than for the government, the Constitution, the people of the US. This could get sticky. Sessions did offer to resign, but it remains to be seen if he will be thrown under Trump's "twitter bus". We shall see.

As for Comey, Pres. Trump tweeted to him -- "I wish him luck." Wonder if this is the electronic equivalent of the Godfather's "kiss on the cheek"???


----------



## Macfury

As I thought, more unnamed sources.



Dr.G. said:


> President Donald Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions have had a series of heated exchanges in the last several weeks, after Sessions recused himself from the Russia probe, a source close to Sessions told Fox News. Seems as if Pres. Trump feels that Sessions, et al, work for him .............. rather than for the government, the Constitution, the people of the US. This could get sticky. Sessions did offer to resign, but it remains to be seen if he will be thrown under Trump's "twitter bus". We shall see.
> 
> As for Comey, Pres. Trump tweeted to him -- "I wish him luck." Wonder if this is the electronic equivalent of the Godfather's "kiss on the cheek"???


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What did Trump say about Sessions?



I assumed you knew how to read. The link is supplied for your convenience if you care to read the article.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I assumed you knew how to read. The link is supplied for your convenience if you care to read the article.


Clearly you don't know how to read--Sessions did not say anything. More anonymous sources for the prog masses.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife.

She thinks that sitting down & sharing terrorists food will soothe the savage beast. As AoS noted in their Top Headlines:



> Well when ISIS sits down to dine on *Bacon*, lettuce and tomato sammiches we might get somewhere.


Yep.

Hillary’s Solution to Combat Terrorism: Get to Know One Another, Foods They Eat



> ...it’s not exactly clear what is to be gained by “understanding” the “experiences” and foods of people who mowed down innocents with delivery vans.


Also from Ace:



> Isn't it about time she disappeared and just STFU?


No argument.

I know, I know: Misogynist!!!

XX)


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk about some of that there domestic, right-wing terrorism that's worse than ISIS!!!

The Lyin’ Queen



> On June 1, Karen Mathews Davis pleaded guilty to composing fake death threats, mailing them to herself, then lying to federal agents. That fakery could land the 68-year-old in prison for five years, possibly longer if prosecutors take a second look at her career as the heroic victim of right-wing terrorists.


Once again, I ask: With all the genuine tragedy & horror going on in the world today, why does the left feel the need to fabricate lies of victimization? I simply do not understand this whole "victim" mentality...

And, don't even start with the "...now a Republican..." crap, CM.


----------



## FeXL

Lookin' good!

Watch Jon Ossoff Lose The Entire Special Election Debate In Less Than Four Minutes



> Democratic congressional candidate Jon Ossoff struggled through a brutal four minutes in Georgia’s special election debate Tuesday night after Republican Karen Handel called him out for not living in the district he is hoping to represent.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...pisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation&wpmk=1

Oops!!!! Fox News confirmed this and then Pres. Trump tweeted about this as well. This will be prime time TV tomorrow morning. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

I wrote myself a note saying that this is all a lie. 

I can't believe anybody takes the notion of people writing themselves notes as evidence. Complete nonsense.



Dr.G. said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...pisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation&wpmk=1
> 
> Oops!!!! Fox News confirmed this and then Pres. Trump tweeted about this as well. This will be prime time TV tomorrow morning. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I wrote myself a note saying that this is all a lie.
> 
> I can't believe anybody takes the notion of people writing themselves notes as evidence. Complete nonsense.


It was a habit of his ............ and it goes back to the days of J. Edgar Hoover who had files complete with notations from meetings with people. Call it good police work, especially coming from the head police officer in the US -- the Director of the FBI. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Great for personal notekeeping. It's pure nonsense as evidence. If I write myself 30 notes today about heinous crimes committed by 30 co-workers, I could save them until I needed one of those notes to get even with someone--just in case. 



Dr.G. said:


> It was a habit of his ............ and it goes back to the days of J. Edgar Hoover who had files complete with notations from meetings with people. Call it good police work, especially coming from the head police officer in the US -- the Director of the FBI. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Great for personal notekeeping. It's pure nonsense as evidence. If I write myself 30 notes today about heinous crimes committed by 30 co-workers, I could save them until I needed one of those notes to get even with someone--just in case.


Legally, in the US, according to the lawyers on Fox News, it can be used as evidence ............. along with Pres. Trump's tweets ...............


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Legally, in the US, according to the lawyers on Fox News, it can be used as evidence ............. along with Pres. Trump's tweets ...............


It has the same weight of evidence as the person's testimony.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-ca...social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It has the same weight of evidence as the person's testimony.


Macfury, "I hope you can let this go." "I need loyalty ... I expect loyalty." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, that'd be sweet...

ABC News Braces for $5.7 Billion "Pink Slime" Trial in the Heart of Trump Country



> BPI claims that the "pink slime" reports tarnished its reputation, caused the closure of several plants, led to hundreds of laid-off workers, and prompted customers including supermarkets and restaurants to cancel orders. But was ABC's reporting untrue? BPI contends that reasonable viewers would infer from watching the broadcasts that its product — found in 70 percent of ground beef, according to ABC — is unsafe, not nutritious, and not really beef nor meat. Further, ABC is accused of implying that BPI had engaged in improper conduct to win regulatory approval of LFTB. The plaintiff also alleges that the mere use of the term "pink slime" — even if it was attributed to scientists working for the USDA — conveyed a harmful, misleading message.


----------



## FeXL

Further on barbaric religious practices.

Imam at Virginia Mosque: ‘Partial’ FGM Helps Prevent ‘Hyper-Sexuality’ in Women



> An imam at the Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, has reportedly stated in a video posted to the mosque’s YouTube account that he believes Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) prevents “hyper-sexuality” in women and endorsed the cutting of a woman’s clitoris in order to prevent her from experiencing the urge to engage and act upon her sexual desires.


Oh, I know. He's old school. Nobody in their right mind would think of endorsing that these days...

Related:

Feds drop bombshell: Up to 100 girls may have had their genitals cut in Michigan



> The government believes the three defendants, all members of a local Indian-Muslim sect, subjected numerous girls to genital cutting procedures over a 12-year period. To date, the government says it has identified eight victims -- including the two Minnesota girls -- though Woodward said the government estimates there could be as many as 100 victims. She said that's a conservative estimate, and that it's based on Dr. Attar's alleged admission to authorities that he let Nagarwala use his clinic up to six times a year to treat children for genital rashes.


----------



## FeXL

Further on fulfilling campaign promises & draining the swamp.

Historic: 90% cut in new regs, costs slashed to just 0.12% of Obama's



> President Trump is winning on one key campaign promise, cutting regulations and virtually eliminating the release of new ones.
> 
> In fact, he has cut the output of costly regulations so deeply that a group that charts the federal government's output of rules has called the shift "historic."
> 
> American Action Forum told Secrets that Trump has cut the output of regulations to just 8 percent of the averages under former President Obama and other recent administrations.


'Cause the planet could use fewer regulations...


----------



## Rps

FeXL. the Iman would be correct, FGM would certainly prevent hyper-sexuality................................................along with any other as well.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I wrote myself a note saying that this is all a lie.
> 
> I can't believe anybody takes the notion of people writing themselves notes as evidence. Complete nonsense.


Agreed, this is just a "he said - he said" not much to come from this other than more press.


----------



## FeXL

The disappointment is palpable...

James Comey confirms President Trump was not under investigation while he was FBI director

I hate to send the Clinton News Network any traffic but this is worth it. Them announcing that it was all a great, big, fat nothingburger.

Everybody together now: awwwwwwwww... :-(

Freddie!!! What're they going to use to impeach him with now? No Russkies. No Comey. :lmao:

No Paris Agreement. No Bill's Wife. It's a great day in the neighbourhood!


----------



## Macfury

There is no joy in Mudville. 

On top of everything else, Comey admits Lynch tried to influence his handling of the Hillary Clinton malfeasance probe.


----------



## Dr.G.

Hopefully, the Russians and Pres. Trump will play the tapes and put an end to this issue. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

No need for the tapes now. Pres. Trump's private attorney, Marc Kasowitz, just said that everything Comey has said is false .... except that Pres. Trump is not under investigation. Case closed. Now, on to the economy and the infrastructure.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Hopefully, the Russians and Pres. Trump will play the tapes and put an end to this issue. We shall see.


Not so sure that Trump is as paranoid as Nixon..... would be surprised if any tapes surfaced. If they did, then this would be news.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Not so sure that Trump is as paranoid as Nixon..... would be surprised if any tapes surfaced. If they did, then this would be news.


Don't be such a Debbie Downer, Rp. Whatever, now there is no need for these tapes. The clouds are lifting and "tomorrow is another day." Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahOD-93D7U[/ame]


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Don't be such a Debbie Downer, Rp. Whatever, now there is no need for these tapes. The clouds are lifting and "tomorrow is another day." Paix, mon ami.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahOD-93D7U


More than likely it will be a "Goundhog Day"...... who knew Bill Murray's film would show us the future.


----------



## Macfury

No matter how you look at it, a big mud cake to chew on for the mainstream media which was champing at its collective bit just hours ago.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> The disappointment is palpable...
> 
> James Comey confirms President Trump was not under investigation while he was FBI director
> 
> I hate to send the Clinton News Network any traffic but this is worth it. Them announcing that it was all a great, big, fat nothingburger.
> 
> Everybody together now: awwwwwwwww... :-(
> 
> Freddie!!! What're they going to use to impeach him with now? No Russkies. No Comey.


*Former FBI director says he could not trust Trump to tell the truth*

Former FBI director James B. Comey said in dramatic testimony Thursday he could not trust President Trump to tell the truth, leading him to take extraordinary steps to document their private conversations, and to make public the details to spur the appointment of a special counsel to probe the administration over possible links to Russia.

*He also accused White House officials of telling “lies, plain and simple,*” about him and the FBI in an effort to cover up the real reason for his dismissal last month.

*“There’s no doubt that I was fired because of the Russia investigation,’’* Comey said in highly anticipated testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee. “The endeavor to change the way the Russia investigation was conducted, that is a big deal.’’

He also revealed that he was so skeptical about whether Justice Department leadership could handle the politically explosive probe after he was fired, he arranged for details of his private conversations with the president to be made public, so that an outside lawyer would take over the case.

Over nearly three hours of testimony, Comey grimly recounted the events that he said showed the president sought to redirect the Russia probe away from his former national security adviser Michael Flynn.
(Washington Post)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> More than likely it will be a "Goundhog Day"...... who knew Bill Murray's film would show us the future.


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Comey has been reduced to slagging his former employer over embarrassment about losing his job.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No matter how you look at it, a big mud cake to chew on for the mainstream media which was champing at its collective bit just hours ago.


I only watch Fox News now. This way, I get to see what the president is watching and what he might tweet about the next day. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Fox News host Neil Cavuto devoted a segment on his Tuesday show to giving some “common sense” advice to President Donald Trump.

Following days of Twitter outbursts about “fake news” and London Mayor Sadiq Khan’s handling of the weekend’s deadly terrorist attack, Cavuto spoke directly to Trump. “Mr. President, it is not the fake news media that’s your problem. It’s you,” he said.

First Morning Joe and now Neil Cavuto. Fox News is becoming mainstream.


----------



## Dr.G.

Where is Sen. Joe McCarthy when we need him???? He would be blasting away at Comey .............. and then turn his guns on Pres. Trump for being "in bed" with the Russians. RIP "Tailgunner Joe" ................... and HUAC. Those were the days.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Hopefully, the Russians and Pres. Trump will play the tapes and put an end to this issue. We shall see.



If the hookers didn't already pee on the tapes, you mean.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> If the hookers didn't already pee on the tapes, you mean.


Now, don't be crude, Frank. This is the president of the United States that you are talking about in this manner. Show some respect, if not for the man, at least for the office. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., Fox has been going hard for the mainstream for the past 5 years. That's why its ratings are plummeting.



Dr.G. said:


> Fox News host Neil Cavuto devoted a segment on his Tuesday show to giving some “common sense” advice to President Donald Trump.
> 
> Following days of Twitter outbursts about “fake news” and London Mayor Sadiq Khan’s handling of the weekend’s deadly terrorist attack, Cavuto spoke directly to Trump. “Mr. President, it is not the fake news media that’s your problem. It’s you,” he said.
> 
> First Morning Joe and now Neil Cavuto. Fox News is becoming mainstream.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., Fox has been going hard for the mainstream for the past 5 years. That's why its ratings are plummeting.


Well, Sean Hannity will go down fighting. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Comey's crushing <snort> testimony.

Big Takeaways from Comey's Testimony



> Marco Rubio asks a damn fine question. Noting Comey's pre-written testimony, Rubio noted that Comey had three big things to say: Trump asked for his loyalty; Trump said he hoped Comey could let the Flynn matter go; and Trump was, just as Trump said, _not_ the subject of an investigation.
> 
> _Why,_ Rubio asked, _did only two of those items leak? Why was the third such a closely-held government secret while the first two were freely shared with the press?_


Links' emphasis.

Questions, questions...

Related:

Comey Took Notes of Every Trump Meeting But Did Not Record Hillary’s 3 Hour Interrogation



> _Hillary Clinton did not swear an oath to tell the truth before meeting with the FBI for three and a half hours last weekend, and the interview was not recorded, FBI Director James Comey told House lawmakers on Thursday._​


----------



## Macfury

I think the best description of that three hours is that Comey testified like a jilted lover.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think the best description of that three hours is that Comey testified like a jilted lover.


:lmao::clap: "Jilted" by a philandering husband ..... and the judge in this divorce hearing is an angry woman who voted for Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Dr.G.

No tweets this morning from Pres. Trump. I have given up on Fox News since they too are starting to tell the truth .......... as they see it from a relevant/progressive/realistic/rational perspective. I shall stick to The Drudge Report on how I want to see the political situation unfolding in the US. Having lived through the Watergate years, it seems like deja vu all over again. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> No tweets this morning from Pres. Trump. I have given up on Fox News since they too are starting to tell the truth .......... as they see it from a relevant/progressive/realistic/rational perspective. I shall stick to The Drudge Report on how I want to see the political situation unfolding in the US. Having lived through the Watergate years, it seems like deja vu all over again. Paix, mes amis.



Better start following Breitbart then if you want the truth, assuming you can handle it. It's like the Rebel Media, only whiter.


----------



## Dr.G.

President Trump tweeted: "Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!" 

Melania had a good thought for her husband. “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Romans 12:19

Eric Trump also had a good thought to share as well. “No weapon that is fashioned against you shall succeed, and you shall refute every tongue that rises against you in judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord and their vindication from me, declares the Lord.” Isaiah 54:17

Still, Pres. Trump's favorite quote about revenge comes from his favorite movie director -- Alfred Hitchcock. "Revenge is sweet and not fattening."


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Better start following Breitbart then if you want the truth, assuming you can handle it. It's like the Rebel Media, only whiter.


A possibility, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

Now that he has been vindicated, Pres. Trump can turn his attention to infrastructure spending, Trumpcare and even some help for those who are hungry ............ if there is enough money left over after The Wall is built. We shall see.

https://www.facebook.com/370110200054059/videos/462215830843495/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Now that he has been vindicated, Pres. Trump can turn his attention to infrastructure spending, Trumpcare and even some help for those who are hungry ............ if there is enough money left over after The Wall is built. We shall see.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/370110200054059/videos/462215830843495/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


When Obamacare is completely gutted wall money will be available.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> When Obamacare is completely gutted wall money will be available.



That's true. 24 million fewer people to have to provide health care coverage for should provide for some HUUGE savings.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's true. 24 million fewer people to have to provide health care coverage for should provide for some HUUGE savings.


It's the end of subsidizing private insurers that will pay for the wall.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you seem to like memes. Here's one for you...



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's true. 24 million fewer people to have to provide health care coverage for should provide for some HUUGE savings.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> When Obamacare is completely gutted wall money will be available.





Freddie_Biff said:


> That's true. 24 million fewer people to have to provide health care coverage for should provide for some HUUGE savings.





Macfury said:


> It's the end of subsidizing private insurers that will pay for the wall.


I thought that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Why not put these 24 million people to work building the wall in exchange for healthcare?


----------



## FeXL

This outta stir up a hornet's nest...

Disclaimer: this post does not endorse Bill's Wife or her actions in any, way, shape or form.

The Internet Is Losing It Over a Passage From Hillary Clinton’s Book Evoking Slavery Imagery



> An excerpt from Hillary Clinton’s famous 1996 book “It Takes A Village” has been circulating online and courting controversy for its depiction of prison inmates working at the Arkansas governor’s mansion.
> 
> Posted by activist Jeanette Jing, the first-person passage describes how Clinton “enforced rules strictly and sent back to prison any inmate who broke a rule.” The inmates, who Clinton said were typically “African American men in their thirties who had already served twelve to eighteen years of their sentences,” worked on the grounds without compensation.


My take: 
1. Got no issues with prisoners actually working while doing their time. IMO, should be a requirement.
2. "Typically African American" doesn't mean 100% African American.
3. Rules are rules. Abide by them or pay the price.
4. You work, you get paid. Even if it's a bare minimum.

In the face of that story, I find this headline timely & ironic:

Clinton Tells College Grads White Supremacy Is On The Rise



> “The work of justice is never finished. We have seen that and been reminded of it recently. The first months of this year saw a surge of hate crimes across our country. White supremacists are emboldened and their numbers are on the rise,” Clinton said according The Washington Times.


I guess she hasn't actually reading anything save the MSM. Damn those white supremacists! Ignoring, of course, BLM, Antifa, Prog snowflakes on campus, Islamic terrorism, etc., etc., etc.

'Sides, what bunch of idiots would invite Bill's Wife to a commencement in the first pla...oh. Forget it...


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Why not put these 24 million people to work building the wall in exchange for healthcare?




Dr.G!!! That's racist! Or something!

Asking people to earn their healthcare instead of merely giving it to them? HAH!!! The height of folly. You can't mean to tell me you actually entertain such politically right thoughts as that, do you? You aren't actually coming over to the dark side... beejacon


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Dr.G!!! That's racist! Or something!
> 
> Asking people to earn their healthcare instead of merely giving it to them? HAH!!! The height of folly. You can't mean to tell me you actually entertain such politically right thoughts as that, do you? You aren't actually coming over to the dark side... beejacon


Nothing racist about this, FeXL. Of the 24 million due to lose their healthcare, they come in all races, religions, nationalities (of origin), political beliefs, educational backgrounds, regions of the US and ages. So, this wall building team is actually an equal opportunity "employer".

"You aren't actually coming over to the dark side... " No, I call it the bright side, since it is 2017 you know. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Now that I realize that Macfury is correct and that Fox News is going main stream, I only watch that station for their game shows. I like their newest show, since I always liked Hollywood Squares and The Brady Bunch as a boy. Sadly, a paper that I grew up with, The New York Daily News ( the NY Daily Mirror went out of business years ago), and read each day for the sports coverage about the NY Giants and the Jimmy Breslin and Pete Hamill columns (RIP both of you), has come out against Pres. Trump ............ after supporting him from the start of his campaign back in 2015.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Why not put these 24 million people to work building the wall in exchange for healthcare?



You mean like slaves? Great idea! Perhaps they could make bricks for the pharaoh too while they'r at it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean like slaves? Great idea! Perhaps they could make bricks for the pharaoh too while they'r at it.


Well, yes, the Jews were the slaves of Pharaoh, and they had to make the bricks for his projects, sometimes without straw. Still, that was just one religion being enslaved. Building the wall would be an equal opportunity "employer" -- instead of pay, you would get some form of health care. So, they would not be slaves, nor indentured servants. This is more like a barter system, where work would get you health care.

There are too many companies that manufacture cement and steel reinforcing rebars that want the wall building contract, so these "employees" would not be making the components of the wall. They would just supply the labor.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> he New York Daily News ( the NY Daily Mirror went out of business years ago), and read each day for the sports coverage about the NY Giants and the Jimmy Breslin and Pete Hamill columns (RIP both of you), has come out against Pres. Trump ............ after supporting him from the start of his campaign back in 2015.


I've got news for you Dr. G.--the _NYDN_ has largely been slagging Trump since the primaries.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I've got news for you Dr. G.--the _NYDN_ has largely been slagging Trump since the primaries.


Oh the humanity!!!!!!!!!!! They blasted FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, et al. They endorsed Trump. What next???????? Steve Bannon joining the ACLU??????????????

Macfury, do you have a blog? I should stick to getting my news from you to stay on the "right" side. Paix, mon ami. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> They endorsed Trump. What next????????


In what universe, Dr. G?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The people voted for Hillary. The Electoral College voted for Trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> In what universe, Dr. G?


That has to be fake ............ no way could they have supported her. They have loved Trump over the years. What is the world coming to????????????????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> That has to be fake ............ no way could they have supported her. They have loved Trump over the years. What is the world coming to????????????????



Alternative facts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Alternative facts.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQveng3Wxz8[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Yeah! The left has always liked those!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean like slaves? Great idea!


----------



## Dr.G.

Informal Poll

Do you think that there were tapes made once Pres. Trump took office?
If these tapes were made since he became president do they still exist now?

My answer to #1 is no ............... and to #2 is no.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Informal Poll
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that there were tapes made once Pres. Trump took office?
> 
> If these tapes were made since he became president do they still exist now?
> 
> 
> 
> My answer to #1 is no ............... and to #2 is no.



Well, they wouldn't be "tapes" in any event. Are they recordings? I wouldn't doubt it. Just like they are golden showers video clips in existence which will emerge at the opportune time. But as Trump said, Comey has better hope there are no "tapes." That doesn't mean he's saying there are. He is neither confirming nor denying the possibility of their existence.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, they wouldn't be "tapes" in any event. Are they recordings? I wouldn't doubt it. Just like they are golden showers video clips in existence which will emerge at the opportune time. But as Trump said, Comey has better hope there are no "tapes." That doesn't mean he's saying there are. He is neither confirming nor denying the possibility of their existence.


Good point, Frank. I am using the term "tapes" since Pres. Trump used that term, as did Comey with his comment "Lordy, I hope that there are tapes." They would be recordings in some format using the latest technology.

We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

From Greek mythology -- Struck by her beauty, Apollo provided Cassandra with the gift of prophecy, but when she refused Apollo's romantic advances, he placed a curse ensuring that nobody would believe her warnings. Cassandra was left with the knowledge of future events, but could neither alter these events nor convince others of the validity of her predictions.

My wife keep seeing an impending disaster with Pres. Trump. I say that since he has already been vindicated, and his lawyer has said that he is innocent of and crimes, the Cassandra Syndrome will be avoided. She says "But what if he is forced to show his tax returns during one of these hearings?" I say "It will prove he is a very rich man." We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> From Greek mythology -- Struck by her beauty, Apollo provided Cassandra with the gift of prophecy, but when she refused Apollo's romantic advances, he placed a curse ensuring that nobody would believe her warnings. Cassandra was left with the knowledge of future events, but could neither alter these events nor convince others of the validity of her predictions.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife keep seeing an impending disaster with Pres. Trump. I say that since he has already been vindicated, and his lawyer has said that he is innocent of and crimes, the Cassandra Syndrome will be avoided. She says "But what if he is forced to show his tax returns during one of these hearings?" I say "It will prove he is a very rich man." We shall see.



Yeah, I'm not so sure the reverse psychology thing is really working, Marc. He did get elected, after all.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I'm not so sure the reverse psychology thing is really working, Marc. He did get elected, after all.


Keep saying it to yourself... Madame President!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I'm not so sure the reverse psychology thing is really working, Marc. He did get elected, after all.


Damn right he did, Frank. And he is starting to get his organization going for the 2020 election. Then he will be truly vindicated by running the electoral table .... with the possible exception of the voters in DC, NY, MA and CA ............ and any other bleeding heart liberals in the US .............. along with those bleeding heart/head/body "employees" building The Wall. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Keep saying it to yourself... Madame President!


Ivanka in 2024???????????


----------



## FeXL

Whomever could he be talking about? 

Muslims Demand Infidel Owner Remove ‘Perfect Man’ Sign — He Has Brilliant Counter-Offer



> When Muslims noticed a billboard calling their prophet Muhammad a “rapist” who “married a 6-year-old” and “beheaded Jews,” they immediately demanded the removal of the “racist and Islamophobic” message. However, the uproar forced the billboard’s owner to come forward — and he has just one thing to say to them.


----------



## FeXL

Bummer, dude... :-(

These Photos of Sad Brooklyn Hipsters in a Bar Watching the Comey Hearing Are Hilarious



> There were a number of watch parties thrown in honor of James Comey's testimony on Capitol Hill today.
> 
> Many of these parties were thrown at bars, for good reason.
> 
> One particular bar in Brooklyn, New York, was visited by AP reporter Steve Peoples, who, along with an artistic Getty photographer, shared the collective exhaustion of the liberal crowd:


----------



## Dr.G.

The five wealthiest billionaires own nearly as much wealth than the bottom half of the world's population — 3.7 billion people. In the current global economy, where so many working people in the US and around the world have been left behind, the wealthiest 1 percent now own as much wealth as the bottom 99 percent.

Sadly, I am not in either group. Maybe I should invest my money, most of which are US $100 bills, rather than let it sit in my basement gathering dust????


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Ivanka in 2024???????????


iTrump 2024 -- This time it's bigly. .


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> iTrump 2024 -- This time it's bigly. .


Yes, very "big league". Trump gets reelected in 2020, Ivanka in 2024, with Jared as her VP. She then resigns after 2 years, with Jared taking over and then going on to win in 2028 and 2032. Then, with America on the brink of disaster, the Trump Nation turns to a new savior ........................... an aged Bernie Sanders. Luckily, he will bring America back from the brink.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The travel ban is not illegal and the 9th Circuit has said as much. Read their bizarre ruling.


That would be the same one who knocked it down today?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> That would be the same one who knocked it down today?


Yes. They don't say the ban is illegal. 

The 9th circuit is the most overturned court in the country. They're also the number one destination for progressive judge shoppers.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Yes. They don't say the ban is illegal.
> 
> The 9th circuit is the most overturned court in the country. They're also the number one destination for progressive judge shoppers.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but if it is knocked down......it's illegal


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump makes bizarre claims at press event as Cabinet members take turns praising him*










After a weekend dominated by discussion of whether he had committed obstruction of justice, the president called in reporters for what he billed as his first full Cabinet meeting. He began with an opening statement laced with the sort of wild, self-congratulatory boasts that are his trademark.

"Never has there been a president, with few exceptions … who has passed more legislation, done more things," Trump declared, even though Congress, which is controlled by his party, hasn't passed any major legislation.

He hailed his plan for the "single biggest tax cut in American history," even though he hasn't proposed a plan and Congress hasn't acted on one. He said "no one would have believed" his election could have created so many new jobs over the past seven months (1.1 million), even though more jobs (1.3 million) were created in the previous seven months.

** * **​
Trump invited reporters to remain as he called on his senior-most advisers to "go around, name your position" and say a few words about the administration's work.

"Start with Mike," Trump said, referring to his vice president. *Mike Pence*, whom Trump kept in the dark for two weeks after learning that then-National Security Adviser Michael Flynn had given the vice president false information earlier this year, responded by saying that serving as Trump's number two is "the greatest privilege of my life."

"An honor to be here," said *Attorney General Jeff Sessions*, who recently offered his resignation amid strains over the Russia investigation.

"My hat is off to you," said *Energy Secretary Rick Perry*, referring to the president's explanation of his decision to abandon a global climate change agreement.

"We thank you for the opportunity and blessing you've given us to serve your agenda and the American people," said *Chief of Staff Reince Priebus*, the subject of recent reports that Trump may fire him.

** * **​
In more than three decades of covering the White House, I've never seen such an extended public display of flattery for a president from his chosen subordinates. At moments it resembled the kind of fawning that some of the strongmen rulers Trump has praised — such as Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte — might receive from their deputies.

When it was over, reporters in the room asked questions of the president related to the ongoing Russia investigations. Trump answered, "Thank you," signaling his aides to usher the media out of the room.

(CNBC)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Donald Trump just held the weirdest Cabinet meeting ever - CNNPolitics.com

At least he did not ask these people to "kiss his ring".


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not to put too fine a point on it, but if it is knocked down......it's illegal


This is where you're wrong. The first ninth circuit ban was not based on legality but on perceived injuries to universities as a result of the ban. The second was based on the possibility that the ban "disfavoured Muslims" and "denigrated American Muslims"--not that the ban was illegal.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> In the current global economy, where so many working people in the US and around the world have been left behind, the wealthiest 1 percent now own as much wealth as the bottom 99 percent.


Yeah. Those 8 years of Barry were a bitch...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Yeah. Those 8 years of Barry were a bitch...


True. The middle class grew in size, poverty went down and he was able to bring the US back from economic disaster. 

Luckily, we have a president now who adds a new wrinkle to the expression "The Buck Stops Here" ............ as the Trump empire becomes richer and richer. Those two law suits against him will be tied up in the courts for so long that he will be out of office until a final ruling is made. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> This is where you're wrong. The first ninth circuit ban was not based on legality but on perceived injuries to universities as a result of the ban. The second was based on the possibility that the ban "disfavoured Muslims" and "denigrated American Muslims"--not that the ban was illegal.


These courts argue points of law as to their legality..... and the SCOUS, where these will wind up also do the same. If they were legal in the courts eyes they would be implemented as we speak.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> These courts argue points of law as to their legality..... and the SCOUS, where these will wind up also do the same. If they were legal in the courts eyes they would be implemented as we speak.


I disagree with you. The first ban in particular argued that the broad powers of the presidency under the Constitution allowed him to make those choices. It was only their identification of an injured party that caused them to stay the ban.

Under U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part II › § 1182:



> (f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
> 
> Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.



As i mentioned previously, the 9th Circuit in particular will do as Progressives wish, and will delay government decisions, even using faulty legal reasoning. That's why it's the most overturned court in the country.

The SCOTUS doesn't need to look at the legality of the ban. It's already legal. It will simply be required to reaffirm the Consitutional powers of the president to overturn the 9th.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> True. The middle class grew in size, poverty went down and he was able to bring the US back from economic disaster.


More CNN & NYT, I assume?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> More CNN & NYT, I assume?


One thing you can say--that on average, the growth rate of the economy was identical to the Great Depression. Socialists polices choked both economies.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> One thing you can say--that on average, the growth rate of the economy was identical to the Great Depression. Socialists polices choked both economies.


Yep. Two cars in every garage, a chicken in every pot and a turkey running the country...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Yep. Two cars in every garage, a chicken in every pot and a turkey running the country...


That was Herbert Hoover. Thank God that FDR was elected in 1932 to save the US.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> More CNN & NYT, I assume?


No, Fox News and The Wall Street Journal.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yep. Two cars in every garage, a chicken in every pot and a turkey running the country...


Look at all of the prosperity Obama bought with $10 trillion!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Look at all of the prosperity Obama bought with $10 trillion!


True, prosperity AND he kept America from going over the economic brink. He was sort of a mini-FDR. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump just announced that tomorrow is his birthday and he would like the repeal of Obamacare and the passing of Trumpcare as a birthday president. We shall see.

Of course, Sen. Rand Paul may throw a wrench into these negotiations since he just said he will not support spending on Trumpcare. Again, we shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, that was quick. AG Sessions just said, under oath, that he has never met or communicated with any Russians ............ "ever". Basically, he blames Sen. Al Franken's six hour "rambling allegations" about Sessions meeting with Russians, which he called a "detestable lie". So, case closed. No need for executive privilege or using the 5th amendment. No collusion ........... no communication ............. no meeting of any sort. 

So, Pres. Trump's lawyer said that the president is innocent, and now AG Sessions has said that he is innocent of any possible collusion charges. If only the Watergate hearing were this easy, Pres. Nixon would not have needed to resign.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> Well, that was quick. AG Sessions just said


More here:

Full text: Jeff Sessions opening statement testimony transcript - POLITICO




> Now, let me address some issues directly: I did not have any private meetings nor do I recall any conversations with any Russian officials at the Mayflower Hotel. I did not attend any meetings at that event. Prior to the speech, I attended a reception with my staff that included at least two dozen people and President Trump. Though I do recall several conversations I had during that pre-speech reception, I do not have any recollection of meeting or talking to the Russian Ambassador or any other Russian officials. If any brief interaction occurred in passing with the Russian Ambassador during that reception, I do not remember it. After the speech, I was interviewed by the news media, which had gathered as I remember in a different room, and then I left the hotel.
> 
> But whether I ever attended a reception where the Russian Ambassador was also present is entirely beside the point of this investigation into Russian interference with the 2016 campaigns. Let me state this clearly: I have never met with or had any conversations with any Russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election. Further, I have no knowledge of any such conversations by anyone connected to the Trump campaign. I was your colleague in this body for 20 years, and the suggestion that I participated in any collusion or that I was aware of any collusion with the Russian government to hurt this country, which I have served with honor for over 35 years, or to undermine the integrity of our democratic process, is an appalling and detestable lie.


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> More here:
> 
> Full text: Jeff Sessions opening statement testimony transcript - POLITICO


So, uh, did anyone ask him what he was trying to say..................beejacon


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> More here:
> 
> Full text: Jeff Sessions opening statement testimony transcript - POLITICO


AS I said, case closed. Next witness .........................


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Look at all of the prosperity Obama bought with $10 trillion!


Yep. Despite claims made here to the contrary, not much made it into the hands of the poor & middle class but the pigs at the trough got fatter...


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> So, uh, did anyone ask him what he was trying to say..................beejacon


Yes, they have. But AG Sessions has said that he wants to give Pres. Trump the opportunity to give him executive privilege before he reveals what the two of them said in private.

As I said before, if Sen. Joe McCarthy were still alive and on this committee, he would have Sessions crying and openly "naming names". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug

If only ........... How better America would be now if he was the president. Such is Life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> So, uh, did anyone ask him what he was trying to say..................beejacon



Methinks the lady doth protest too much.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug
> 
> If only ........... How better America would be now if he was the president. Such is Life.


That would be the nostalgic look back at America before Bernie followed the Venezuelan model.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Methinks the lady doth protest too much.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That would be the nostalgic look back at America before Bernie followed the Venezuelan model.


Nope. More like following an FDR or LBJ model ........... without WWII or Vietnam. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Nope. More like following an FDR or LBJ model ........... without WWII or Vietnam. Paix, mon ami.


FDR would have ridden that Depression into 1944 without WWII.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> FDR would have ridden that Depression into 1944 without WWII.


In your dreams maybe. Sadly, LBJ lost his Great Society programs to the black hole of Vietnam.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> In your dreams maybe.


Prosperity was built on ramping up war production and then retained because WWII had bombed most European infrastructure into the stone age.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> As I said before, if Sen. Joe McCarthy were still alive and on this committee, he would have Sessions crying and openly "naming names".


This sounds wistful. Not the intention, I assume, based on vague recollections of posts 10 years ago.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Prosperity was built on ramping up war production and then retained because WWII had bombed most European infrastructure into the stone age.


Well, thank God for the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Europe. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

*Man Ravaged by Amnesia Somehow Able to Hold Down Demanding Legal Job*










WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—An Alabama man whose brain was ravaged by severe amnesia is somehow able to function in an extremely demanding legal job, leading neurologists reported on Tuesday.

The man, whom neurologists are calling a “medical mystery,” has performed highly exacting tasks in one of the country’s top legal positions despite having virtually no short- or long-term memory.

Dr. Davis Logsdon, the chairman of the neurology department at the University of Minnesota Medical School, said that the Alabaman’s brain “defies explanation.”

“In all the medical literature, we have never seen an example of someone capable of holding down such a high-powered job while having no memory whatsoever of people he met, things he said, places he has been, or thoughts he has had,” Logsdon said. “It’s the stuff of science fiction.”

Logsdon said that his team of neurologists was studying video of the man in the hopes of understanding the paradoxical functioning of his brain, but Logsdon acknowledged that such a task was challenging. “After listening to him talk for hours, your own brain starts to hurt,” he said.
(New Yorker)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Man Ravaged by Amnesia Somehow Able to Hold Down Demanding Legal Job*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—An Alabama man whose brain was ravaged by severe amnesia is somehow able to function in an extremely demanding legal job, leading neurologists reported on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> The man, whom neurologists are calling a “medical mystery,” has performed highly exacting tasks in one of the country’s top legal positions despite having virtually no short- or long-term memory.
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Davis Logsdon, the chairman of the neurology department at the University of Minnesota Medical School, said that the Alabaman’s brain “defies explanation.”
> 
> 
> 
> “In all the medical literature, we have never seen an example of someone capable of holding down such a high-powered job while having no memory whatsoever of people he met, things he said, places he has been, or thoughts he has had,” Logsdon said. “It’s the stuff of science fiction.”
> 
> 
> 
> Logsdon said that his team of neurologists was studying video of the man in the hopes of understanding the paradoxical functioning of his brain, but Logsdon acknowledged that such a task was challenging. “After listening to him talk for hours, your own brain starts to hurt,” he said.
> 
> (New Yorker)​








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


> This sounds wistful. Not the intention, I assume, based on vague recollections of posts 10 years ago.


Sen. Joe McCarthy was a vicious, unethical and amoral senator who tore apart people and their reputations in the HUAC hearings. He would have made anyone beg for mercy other than those who had the strength of their convictions ........... which is NOT AG Sessions.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> No, Fox News and The Wall Street Journal.


Riiiiiiight...


----------



## Macfury

Borowitz is painfully unfunny. This stuff is on the level of what I would do in high school.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Riiiiiiight...


Well, they have been supportive of Pres. Trump in the past.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Borowitz is painfully unfunny. This stuff is on the level of what I would do in high school.


Oh, some of the things he has written in the past 6 months rate as "high wit and satire". Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Oh, some of the things he has written in the past 6 months rate as "high wit and satire". Paix, mon ami.


They're always the same and take a very safe and easy approach to each column. I don't know how he can keep his gig when people like David Sedaris are writing for the same magazine.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> They're always the same and take a very safe and easy approach to each column. I don't know how he can keep his gig when people like David Sedaris are writing for the same magazine.


True, each of his columns are much the same, and all bring about a chuckle after I read them each day or so. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> True, each of his columns are much the same, and all bring about a chuckle after I read them each day or so. Paix, mon ami.


Weak as water.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Weak as water.


I have never heard this expression, mon ami. Still, these days, water is very valuable, as his take on the current political situation. Paix.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Well, they have been supportive of Pres. Trump in the past.


And?

How does that relate to the fact that Barry's domestic & foreign policies were abject failures?


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> And?
> 
> How does that relate to the fact that Barry's domestic & foreign policies were abject failures?


Fox News and the Wall Street Journal are usually kind to Pres. Trump.

Pres. Obama's domestic policies were successful, but I would not rate his foreign policies as being all that strong.


----------



## Macfury

President Obama had no successes domestically, except to make the population more subservient to central command and control style government--and upping the debt by $10 trillion. The WSJ was not a Trump supporter, although a few of the columnists were somewhat supportive. FOX News has been pushing left for at least two years. Their declining ratings are the result.


----------



## Dr.G.

VP Pence is starting to look like Gerald Ford when he was VP. Of the 47 men who served as VP before Pence , 14 went on to became president – that’s 30%. Factor in that the former Indiana governor is serving under a President named Trump and the odds escalate for him to be even more like VP Ford. We shall see.

Actually, I would not bet on Pres. Trump to be impeached. He might resign because he is bored with the position, but not be impeached. Again, we shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> President Obama had no successes domestically, except to make the population more subservient to central command and control style government--and upping the debt by $10 trillion. The WSJ was not a Trump supporter, although a few of the columnists were somewhat supportive. FOX News has been pushing left for at least two years. Their declining ratings are the result.


That about covers it. Save his divisiveness...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

*sigh* It was a different day and age. And less than a year ago too.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> *sigh* It was a different day and age. And less than a year ago too.


Yep. Same flag, but a better guy holding it!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

US arrests nearly 200 Iraqi immigrants in massive deportation sweep



> US immigration authorities have arrested and moved to deport 199 Iraqi immigrants, mostly from the Detroit area, in the last three weeks after Iraq agreed to accept deportees as part of a deal removing it from President Donald Trump’s travel ban, officials said Wednesday.
> 
> In the Detroit area, 114 Iraqi nationals were arrested over the weekend, and 85 throughout the rest of the country over the past several weeks, Gillian Christensen, a US Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman, said in a statement.


More:



> The overwhelming majority of those arrested had convictions for crimes including murder, rape, assault, kidnapping, burglary, drug trafficking, weapons violations and other offenses, Christensen said.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Is that person so stupid that they don't know the Beverly Hillbillies was filmed in the 1960s?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Is that person so stupid that they don't know the Beverly Hillbillies was filmed in the 1960s?


Yes, he is...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Is that person so stupid that they don't know the Beverly Hillbillies was filmed in the 1960s?




Whooosh!


----------



## Macfury

Yep.


----------



## FeXL

President Trump Should Bypass Courts on the Travel Ban



> But there can be no doubt whatsoever that President Trump is acting within his legal authority under the Immigration and Nationality Act which grants him the authority to “suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants” for as long as he thinks it’s necessary. Obama made use of this power to temporarily halt Iraqi migration. So have other presidents in the past.


----------



## FeXL

Further on FGM in America.

Attorney: Mosque paid doctor to perform genital cuttings on girls



> A local mosque was paying a physician to perform female genital mutilation on young girls, an attorney serving as a guardian for the doctor's children alleged in court Tuesday.
> 
> The disclosure occurred during a hearing in which the state is seeking to terminate the parental rights of Dr. Jumana Nagarwala, 44, of Northville, the lead defendant in Detroit's historic genital cutting case.


More:



> Nagarwala's lawyer, Shannon Smith, adamantly denied the allegation that the mosque was paying her client to perform genital cutting procedures.
> 
> "That's absolutely not true," Nagarwala's lawyer, Shannon Smith, said afterward. *"The government has grossly overstated and misstated so many facts in this case ... just to make it sound bad."*


M'bold.

Waaaaaait just a minute there, sunshine. Exactly what part of this...debacle...doesn't sound bad? With or without the mosque paying for the procedure? How about a little perspective?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> VP Pence is starting to look like Gerald Ford when he was VP. Of the 47 men who served as VP before Pence , 14 went on to became president – that’s 30%. Factor in that the former Indiana governor is serving under a President named Trump and the odds escalate for him to be even more like VP Ford. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I would not bet on Pres. Trump to be impeached. He might resign because he is bored with the position, but not be impeached. Again, we shall see.




Legally, Trump would be better off to do a Cosby and just shut the F up. Apparently he doesn't understand the concept that anything he says or tweets can and and will be used against him in a court of law. Which is fine by me, so have at 'er Donald! Be the best Chump you can be!


----------



## Macfury

"Get used to it..."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> "Get used to it..."




Hey Macfury: maybe it's about time you came up with a new punch line. This one was humorous up to, oh, seven months ago. Or did you need FeXL to provide you with a new one?


----------



## Macfury

I don't know what you're getting at.


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump's lawyer took away his desk sign of "The buck stops here", and gave him this one instead. Very wise.


----------



## CubaMark

*There ain't enough popcorn in the world for this show....*

*Trump on Twitter confirms he's under investigation*

U.S. President Donald Trump confirmed Friday he is under federal investigation and appeared to single out a senior Justice Department official for criticism, underscoring his growing frustration with the persistent focus on Russia's involvement in the 2016 election and possibly his campaign.

"I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director! Witch Hunt," the president wrote.

(CBC)​
*....but then.....*

*Trump attorney says president not under investigation*

A member of the U.S. president's outside legal team said Sunday that Donald Trump is not under federal investigation, days after Trump appeared to confirm he was with a tweet about being the target of a "witch hunt."

Appearing on a series of morning news programs, attorney Jay Sekulow said that a Friday tweet from Trump was specifically directed at a story in The Washington Post about the expanding probe into Russia's election meddling.

"The president is not under investigation by the special counsel," said Sekulow. "The tweet from the president was a response to the five anonymous sources that were purportedly leaking information to The Washington Post about a potential investigation of the president."

(CBC)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Looks like not everyone is having a Happy Father's Day...



> Trump is losing it as complicated investigations into the Russia probe continue.
> 
> 
> Disagreement with Trump's agenda affecting climate change and health care is killing Trump's disapproval rating, hitting an all time high at 64%, according to AP polls.
> 
> And with the Senate Intelligence Committee's on-going investigation into Russian involvement during the presidential campaign not going away, Trump aimed his frustrations toward the Deputy Attorney General on Twitter by referring to his "witch hunt" for the firing of James Comey.
> 
> 
> twitter
> An AP report described his paranoia and frustrations witnessed by White House aides.
> 
> Trump advisers and confidants describe the president as increasingly angry over the investigation, yelling at television sets in the White House carrying coverage and insisting he is the target of a conspiracy to discredit — and potentially end — his presidency.
> Seeing the evident target of Trump's tweet, Dianne Feinstein expressed her concern of Rod Rosenstein and investigative special counsel Robert Mueller potentially getting fired by the president.
> 
> “The message the president is sending through his tweets is that he believes the rule of law doesn’t apply to him and that anyone who thinks otherwise will be fired,” she said. “That’s undemocratic on its face and a blatant violation of the president’s oath of office."
> 
> gettyimages
> The tweet followed a report about the investigation by Rosenstein, who said, “Americans should be skeptical about anonymous allegations. The Department of Justice has a long-established policy to neither confirm nor deny such allegations.”
> 
> 
> gettyimages
> Friday's tweet also came after an internal order from the top lawyer for Trump's transition team on Thursday, which warned officials to "preserve all records and other materials related to the Russia probe."
> 
> The AP reports that, "The order also covers separate inquiries into several key Trump associates including former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, campaign adviser Paul Manafort, foreign policy aide Carter Page and outside adviser Roger Stone."
> 
> With the Russia probe constantly on the forefront, Trump seems to be responding to every development in the news. "After 7 months of investigations & committee hearings about my 'collusion with the Russians,' nobody has been able to show any proof. Sad!" Trump said.
> 
> And he gave a followup tweet.
> 
> 
> twitter
> A little fact check.
> 
> 
> 
> twitter


http://www.distractify.com/politics...2&tse_id=INF_a6235820543a11e790011d41b85aaeb5


----------



## FeXL

So, this post is mostly merely recognition of the inefficiencies of gov't everywhere.

Until Trump, Feds Were Still Doing Paperwork on Y2K Bug



> For the last 17 years, thousands upon thousands of man hours have been spent -- no, wasted on continuing preparations for the year 2000 when all the computers in the world were supposed to stop function and spiral us straight into the apocalypse. That, of course, didn’t happen. But why stop spending taxpayer dollars needlessly?
> 
> For almost two decades, federal employees have been filing reports on the Y2K bug. Some officials claim the amount of filings have decreased through the years, but the fact that they were still happening at all is reprehensible.


The good part is that it's taken someone from the right to put an end to the stupidity:



> So far, 50 unneeded paperwork requirements have been eliminated, seven of which were related to Y2K. Bloomberg offered another example: “the Pentagon will be freed from a requirement that it file a report every time a small business vendor is paid, a task that consumed some 1,200 man-hours every year.”


----------



## FeXL

I hope she's just as open minded when the shoe is on the other foot.

CNN’s Kate Bolduan Calls Physical Assault on Texas GOP Lawmaker ‘Democracy in Action’ 



> As TGP previously reported, a Democrat lawmaker attacked a TEXAS REPUBLICAN LAWMAKER after he called ICE on Illegal alien protesters.
> 
> ...
> 
> Rinaldi’s actions caused Democrats to come unglued.
> Democrats threatened physical violence on the House floor.
> 
> *Unhinged Democrat Rep. Ramon Romero threatened to shoot Rinaldi and attacked him on the House floor.*


M'bold.

Yep. The compassionate, intellectual, left.


----------



## FeXL

I was never a fan of Roseanne Barr.

Comedienne Roseanne Barr on Kathy Griffin: I Would “Slap the F*ck Out of” the “B*tch”



> On Wednesday comedienne Roseanne Barr weighed in on Griffin’s stunt.
> She wasn’t happy about it.


My respect for her just went up a couple notches...


----------



## CubaMark

*U.S. Sells $12 Billion In F-15s To Qatar After Trump Accuses It Of Funding Terror*









Just one week after President Donald Trump accused the country of funding terrorism, the United States has agreed to sell Qatar $12 billion worth of F-15s.

“Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis met today with Qatari Minister of State for Defense Affairs Dr. Khalid al-Attiyah to discuss concluding steps in finalizing the Foreign Military Sales purchase of US-manufactured F-15 fighter aircraft by the State of Qatar. The $12 billion sale will give Qatar a state of the art capability and increase security cooperation and interoperability between the United States and Qatar,” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Roger Cabiness told CNN.

** * **​
This is strange given Trump’s efforts to position Washington as a key ally of Saudi Arabia in the fight against terrorism. That’s why his major announcement of securing a $110 billion arms sale to the Kingdom at the end of May was such a big deal for him. He could be seen by the world as Riyadh’s protectorate of sorts by ensuring it had the most sophisticated U.S. hardware available to protect itself.

Then, as always the case with the Trump White House, confusion follows.

Yesterday, the Pentagon OK’d a deal to sell top-tier fighter jets to Qatar, a state that Saudi Arabia has cut ties with because it believes country is funding terror. But it isn’t just Saudi Arabia that has made the accusation.

Last week, nine countries cut diplomatic ties with Qatar because they believe it is funding terrorism that’s destabilizing the region. Three of those states come from the Gulf Cooperation Council, one of the most powerful councils in the Middle East.

(Jalopnik)​


----------



## Macfury

Qatar will now have $12 billion fewer dollars to fund terror.


----------



## FeXL

Remember Pelosi's remark about having to pass Obamacare in order to see what's in it?

Well, the Dems don't like the tables being turned. Big surprise...

Now Obamacare brings chaos to the Senate as Democrats vow to bring all business to a halt over repeal effort - and leaders consider CANCELING August vacation to finally pass some laws



> Democrats are angry that Senate Republicans are drawing up their Obamacare repeal and replace bill behind closed doors


Wah frickin' wah...


----------



## Macfury

Even Pelosi did not seem to know what was "in it" at the time Obamacare was passed.



FeXL said:


> Remember Pelosi's remark about having to pass Obamacare in order to see what's in it?
> 
> Well, the Dems don't like the tables being turned. Big surprise...
> 
> Now Obamacare brings chaos to the Senate as Democrats vow to bring all business to a halt over repeal effort - and leaders consider CANCELING August vacation to finally pass some laws
> 
> 
> 
> Wah frickin' wah...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Even Pelosi did not seem to know what was "in it" at the time Obamacare was passed.


Oh, agreed.

I just find the Dem reaction predictable & hilarious. 

Suck it up, me boyos. This is what happens when you lose the election. It's not like there was much bipartisan input when the original Charlie Foxtrot was drafted.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

The CIA has been hacking dozens of Wi-Fi routers and using them as covert listening points for at least a DECADE, leaked documents reveal



> Leaked CIA documents have revealed the agency has been hacking people's Wi-Fi routers and using them as covert listening points.
> 
> Infected routers are used to spy on the activity of internet-connected device, according to decade-old secret documents leaked on Thursday by Wikileaks.
> 
> Home routers from 10 US manufacturers, including Linksys, DLink, and Belkin, have been used by the CIA to monitor internet traffic.


I forget. Who was in power for 8 of the last 10 years? Yeah, ol' whatshisname...


----------



## Macfury

Always amazing to see the resident progs bemoaning the wonderful days of Obama bipartisanship.



FeXL said:


> Oh, agreed.
> 
> I just find the Dem reaction predictable & hilarious.
> 
> Suck it up, me boyos. This is what happens when you lose the election. It's not like there was much bipartisan input when the original Charlie Foxtrot was drafted.


----------



## Dr.G.

The Man Who Will Unseat Paul Ryan Just Announced His Candidacy In A Truly Amazing Video

Great political ad. Positive and powerful. I would vote for him if I was in that Wisconsin district.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yup, that about sums it up. 



> This is quite a quote:
> 
> "Trump has been ruled by compulsions, obsessions and vindictiveness, expressed nearly daily on Twitter. He has demonstrated an egotism that borders on solipsism. His political skills as president have been close to nonexistent. His White House is divided, incompetent and chaotic, and key administration jobs remain unfilled. His legislative agenda has gone nowhere. He has told constant, childish, refuted, uncorrected lies, and demanded and habituated deception among his underlings. He has humiliated and undercut his staff while requiring and rewarding flattery. He has promoted self-serving conspiracy theories. He has displayed pathetic, even frightening, ignorance on policy matters foreign and domestic. He has inflicted his ethically challenged associates on the nation. He is dead to the poetry of language and to the nobility of the political enterprise, viewing politics as conquest rather than as service."
> 
> Such is the verdict of Michael Gerson, writing in the Washington Post. He is not some liberal critic but a proud Republican who was a top aide to President George W. Bush. Needless to say he is not a fan of Donald Trump, but neither does he support Democratic policies. His point is that no good will come to the GOP from its complicity with Donald Trump, because we are on a dangerous path with no clear end game.
> 
> His column is worth reading in full.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

It really does. Bush was no Conservative and Gerson was another gutless RINO who served under him. All of you Establishment types hate Trump.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, that about sums it up.


----------



## FeXL

So, there was a Muslim girl murdered on the weekend in Virginia. Know why you haven't heard anything about it? 'Cause the killer isn't white. He's an illegal alien from El Salvador.

Media Interest In Murdered Muslim Girl Disappears When Her Suspected Killer Revealed to be an Illegal Hispanic Alien; ICE Places Federal Detainer on Suspect



> It can't be a hate crime because only Whites have the privilege of being accused of hate crimes.


Curious how media interest suddenly flags, idn't it...


----------



## SINC

Whoda thunk it?

NPR: 25 Million Votes For Clinton 'Completely Fake' - She Lost Popular Vote


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Whoda thunk it?
> 
> 
> 
> NPR: 25 Million Votes For Clinton 'Completely Fake' - She Lost Popular Vote



Who'da thunk it? I can think of a few right wing nuts off the top of my head, Don. Seriously? Yournewswire.com? You should be more than a little embarassed if you find this source more credible than the "mainstream media."

http://realorsatire.com/yournewswire-com/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

So, coupla special elections stateside today!

CNN is sad.

I'm happy!

Republican Handel wins runoff for Georgia seat in House



> GOP beats back national push by Democrats in most expensive contest in U.S. House history


Related:

**Georgia Special Election Livewire** Democrat Ossoff Versus Republican Handel

Woohoo!


----------



## Macfury

Was just going to report this good news of a Democrat whupping. They spent more then $21 million to lose this race. Handel spent $3 million.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Republican Handel wins runoff for Georgia seat in House


I"m sure it's just a typo, but....

_With *207 percent* of the 208 precincts counted, Mrs. Handel defeated Mr. Ossoff, a former congressional aide and documentary filmmaker, by a 52.6 percent to 47.4 percent margin.​_
:yikes:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I"m sure it's just a typo, but....
> 
> 
> 
> _With *207 percent* of the 208 precincts counted, Mrs. Handel defeated Mr. Ossoff, a former congressional aide and documentary filmmaker, by a 52.6 percent to 47.4 percent margin.​_
> 
> 
> :yikes:



Hey, it's that new alt-right math FeXL has been raving about!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey, it's that new alt-right math FeXL has been raving about!


Digging your grave with your tongue?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Was just going to report this good news of a Democrat whupping. They spent more then $21 million to lose this race. Handel spent $3 million.


Soros has lots of cash.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Soros has lots of cash.


Yup. Outside funding for a candidate who lived outside the district. Very bad calculation on this so-called "Trump-slayer."


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. Like 1+1=2.

Quite a stretch for a Prog.

This coming from the guy who thinks Ralph cut his wages 40%...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey, it's that new alt-right math FeXL has been raving about!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yeah. Like 1+1=2.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a stretch for a Prog.
> 
> 
> 
> This coming from the guy who thinks Ralph cut his wages 40%...



207 percent, buddy. You keep justifying that if you can't see the error.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> 207 percent, buddy. You keep justifying that if you can't see the error.


Where are you getting the 207 per cent figure from? It's not FeXL.


----------



## eMacMan

Not sure how many people would have stumbled across this data leak, but the implications for identity theft are massive. It takes only one if they downloaded it all.



> Information on more than 198 Million United States citizens, that's over 60% of the US population, was exposed in what's believed to be the largest ever known exposure of voter-related to date.
> 
> This blunder was caused by Deep Root Analytics (DRA), a data analytics firm employed by the US Republican National Committee (RNC), who "mistakenly" left sensitive personal details of more than 198 million US voters exposed on an unsecured Amazon S3 server
> 
> ...


Database of Over 198 Million U.S. Voters Left Exposed On Unsecured Server

Will be interesting to see if the (ir)responsible parties are pursued as vigorously as the fake Russian collusion tale.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Not sure how many people would have stumbled across this data leak, but the implications for identity theft are massive. It takes only one if they downloaded it all.
> 
> Database of Over 198 Million U.S. Voters Left Exposed On Unsecured Server
> 
> Will be interesting to see if the (ir)responsible parties are pursued as vigorously as the fake Russian collusion tale.




But her E-mails!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Where are you getting the 207 per cent figure from? It's not FeXL.



If you would actually read the thread, you would know.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Was just going to report this good news of a Democrat whupping. They spent more then $21 million to lose this race. Handel spent $3 million.


The numbers I came up with were over $30Million$ on the Demirat ledger including PACs. 

Handel raised $4.5Million$. Republirat PACs almost certainly brought the total over $10Million$, but no exact figure as yet on the PAC contributions.


----------



## Dr.G.

Ford to switch Focus production to China, keep larger models in U.S. - Business - CBC News

Well, Pres. Trump did promise that he would stop jobs from going to Mexico from the US. As well, with each Ford Focus made in China will come a FREE Trump tie, also made in China. Quite the deal.


----------



## FeXL

In my best Flounder voice:

"Oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!"

State May Pull Hillary’s Security Clearance Over Private Email Server



> State Department officials have opened “a formal inquiry” into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server located in her New York residence, and are considering whether she and her aides should lose their security clearances, Fox News reports.
> 
> Officials are investigating her use of a private server in the basement of her Chapaqua, New York, mansion to determine if she mishandled classified information during her tenure as the nation’s top diplomat, Fox reported in news the outlet said is confirmed by Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley.


It's a start.

She'd look good in a gov't issue orange pantsuit...


----------



## CubaMark

(BoingBoing: Tom the Dancing Bug)​


----------



## Macfury

Is Tom the Dancing Bug an idiot? No insurance can cover a pre-existing condition any more than you can buy auto insurance at the scene of an accident.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, & just like with Bill's Wife's loss, the excuses for Ossoff's loss are piling on.

Ossoff Voters Impossible To Reach Because They Live With Their Parents, Democratic Organizer Says



> A precinct captain for Democratic candidate Jon Ossoff’s congressional campaign complained recently that many of his constituents are hard to reach because they still live at home with their parents.
> 
> “Those were the angriest people,” Jessica Zeigler told Slate, referring to the Republican parents of the young Democrats. “When you are targeting their child, or heaven forbid their child might not think the same way as them, it becomes ugly.”


Question:

At what point do "young Democrats" begin to think for themselves? 25 years old? 30? 50? Never? 

Jes' askin'...

Related:

Dems in Disarray: Party Posts Worst May Fundraising Since 2003



> While the Democrats were still nursing their wounds following a crushing defeat in the special election for Georgia’s 6th Congressional District Tuesday, they were nailed with additional bad news: This May was the Democratic National Committee’s worst May of fundraising since 2003.
> 
> The DNC raised $4.29 million in May of this year, according to data recently released by the Federal Election Commission. It is the weakest take for national Democrats since May of 2003, when the party raised a paltry $2.7 million.


----------



## FeXL

How's one of America's forays into socialism doing?

Illinois careens into financial meltdown – and not even the lottery is safe



> Illinois is grappling with a full-fledged financial crisis and not even the lottery is safe – with Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner warning the state is entering "banana republic" territory.
> 
> Facing billions in unpaid bills and pension obligations, the state is hitting a cash crunch that is rare even by Illinois standards.
> 
> A top financial official just warned 100 percent of the state's monthly revenue will be eaten up by court-ordered payments. Rauner is calling a special session of the Democrat-led General Assembly in a bid to pass what he hopes will be the first full budget package in almost three years.
> 
> And Illinois will – literally – lose the lottery if the budget fails.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Ya don't say.

Study supports Trump: 5.7 million noncitizens may have cast illegal votes



> A research group in New Jersey has taken a fresh look at postelection polling data and concluded that the number of noncitizens voting illegally in U.S. elections is likely far greater than previous estimates.
> 
> As many as 5.7 million noncitizens may have voted in the 2008 election, which put Barack Obama in the White House.


----------



## FeXL

Damn that history! 

When The Left Lost Their Way On Immigration



> Glenn Greenwald carping about illegal immigrants wreaking havoc on our culture. Paul Krugman (of all people) calling for a reduction in the importation of low-skill immigrants? Say it isn’t so! And Barack Obama himself complaining when the guy rotating his tires speaks Spanish. Who could have guessed?


OK, so they changed their opinions since then. Fine. I change my opinion when the facts of the matter change, too.

However...

The facts of the matter have not changed. The only reason the opinions of these wunnerful examples of Prog hypocrisy changed is because the end justifies the means: Immigrants typically vote left. Period.



> None of this is really new information, but it’s refreshing to hear it from someone who experienced the transition from the left side of the bus. These were cynical political calculations from the DNC leadership which were designed to win elections. Fair enough, right? That’s what the two parties do. But once the genie was out of the bottle, the Democrats probably learned that it wasn’t something they could undo. They now have their young voters of all demographics totally wound up in high gear to the point where they don’t even want a fence on the southern border. If a little bit of illegal immigration is good, an unrestricted flood of it _must be absolutely fantastic, right?_


Italics from the link.

Curious, idn't it.


----------



## FeXL

Even more on the hypocrisy of the left.

Congressional Democrats Want a $15 Minimum Wage—but Pay Their Interns Nothing



> Progressive members of Congress have rallied around the Raise the Wage Act, which would raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2024. But they may want to fix a glaring income inequality issue in their own offices first.
> 
> Of the nearly 190 members of Congress co-sponsoring the $15 minimum-wage legislation, the vast majority don’t pay their own interns a penny. The analysis, conducted by the right-of-center Employment Policies Institute, found that only 10 of the co-sponsors of the bill offer their interns any compensation whatsoever, usually in the form of a stipend.


Why, those ungrateful little...twerps! They should be thankful to be allowed in the presence of such greatness!!! That alone is worth the price of admission...


----------



## FeXL

Interesting take.

James Hodgkinson -- Look for the Union Label



> A good deal of analysis has gone into James Hodgkinson, the Friend of Bernie and neosocialist wacko who tried to murder the Republicans in Congress by an act of terrorism. Yes, he hated Trump and all Republicans. Yes, he waxed poetic over high taxes and MSNBC. Yes, he was abusive to his foster children (one committed suicide by immolating herself with gasoline while the other ran away -- after Jimmy knocked her around -- and eventually died of a heroin overdose as a young adult.) Yes, he was estranged from his wife (gone since March to live in his van in the D.C. area.) But one aspect of his life that caught my eye is that he was a union carpenter.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Next up: a special counsel to probe Team Obama’s obstruction of justice



> By using fired FBI Director James Comey to attack the new Republican administration, Democrats have opened up a legal can of worms for the Obama administration.
> 
> Under sworn questioning, Comey has veered off the topic of President Trump and Russia and revealed several damning incidents in which his predecessor’s administration politically interfered in the Hillary Clinton email investigation. And now the Senate will investigate Team Obama for obstruction of justice.
> 
> *Specifically, the Senate Judiciary Committee announced last week it will hold hearings to “examine then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s involvement in the Clinton email server investigation.”*


M'bold.

Another whose figure would be flattered with a bright orange jumpsuit...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Oh, & just like with Bill's Wife's loss, the excuses for Ossoff's loss are piling on.
> 
> Ossoff Voters Impossible To Reach Because They Live With Their Parents, Democratic Organizer Says


Yep--the most connected generation in history can't be reached via Internet/Social Media. Mind-boggling.

Laughed to see the MSM wringing their hands on election night--"Bawwwwww, it's raining." Because you know Democrats don't vote in the rain, while Republicans do.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Laughed to see the MSM wringing their hands on election night--"Bawwwwww, it's raining." Because you know Democrats don't vote in the rain, while Republicans do.


Yeah, I LMAO when I read that, too.

Maybe they're afraid of melting away like in Baum's _Oz_.


----------



## Dr.G.

Four Republican senators from the conservative wing of their party say they oppose Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's health-care plan in its current form, which would cause the legislation overhauling a big chunk of the U.S. health-care system to fail if the vote was held today.

Those senators — Rand Paul of Kentucky, Ted Cruz of Texas, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and Mike Lee of Utah — dislike the Senate GOP bill because they do not feel it goes far enough in repealing the Affordable Care Act.

Their concern is enough to place the GOP measure in serious jeopardy as McConnell can afford to lose only two Republicans and still pass the measure.

Still, the 800 billion dollars cut from Medicaid could pay for 40 walls.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yeah, I LMAO when I read that, too.
> 
> Maybe they're afraid of melting away like in Baum's _Oz_.


Heard this spun on the US radio news this morning as such bad news for the Republicans, because they didn't win it by a larger margin.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Heard this spun on the US radio news this morning as such bad news for the Republicans, because they didn't win it by a larger margin.


Talk about grasping at straws. The Dems should change their name to The Denial Party...


----------



## Macfury

It's good to see how quickly Trump has worked to erase every trace of eight years of the Obama Regime. Soon, every so-called Obama achievement will be a mere footnote in history--unfortunately the $10 trillion that idiot racked up in debt continues to haunt the country, with nothing to show for it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's good to see how quickly Trump has worked to erase every trace of eight years of the Obama Regime. Soon, every so-called Obama achievement will be a mere footnote in history--unfortunately the $10 trillion that idiot racked up in debt continues to haunt the country, with nothing to show for it.



This almost sounds like a racist rant. You wouldn't happen to be a racist, would you, Macfury? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Your comment is offensive.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Freddie, here's your opportunity to showcase your superior debating skills, your vast knowledge & further on your reading/comprehension skills: Exactly where was race mentioned anywhere in MF's post?

Quote the exact words.

Or does merely posting the word "Obama" make one racist?

Lessee: Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama...

Funny, doesn't feel racist. Did it sound racist?

On the other hand, if you can't defend your accusation, then we'll merely take your post as just another unhinged Prog rant from the same person who thinks Ralph cut his wages by 40%.

I tend towards the latter but am willing to be surprised...



Freddie_Biff said:


> This almost sounds like a racist rant. You wouldn't happen to be a racist, would you, Macfury?


----------



## FeXL

How the Dems Burned $40 Mil to Lose 4 Elections and Scam Supporters



> ...Jon Ossoff, an awkward immature hipster who didn’t even live in the district, had raised $23.6 million and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee had burned through another $5 million. Other groups threw in around $2.6 million to achieve absolutely nothing.
> 
> $31 million had been spent and wasted on history’s most expensive congressional election. And the Dem experts congratulated themselves that they had lost by a smaller margin than in the past.
> 
> *They had spent $30 million more than in their first special election in Kansas to gain a whole 1%.*


M'bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your comment is offensive.




So is your degradation of the only African American president the United States has ever had, and your rationale seems uncomfortably similar to the rationale used by people like Steve Bannon and Donald Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hey, Freddie, here's your opportunity to showcase your superior debating skills, your vast knowledge & further on your reading/comprehension skills: Exactly where was race mentioned anywhere in MF's post?
> 
> 
> 
> Quote the exact words.
> 
> 
> 
> Or does merely posting the word "Obama" make one racist?
> 
> 
> 
> Lessee: Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama...
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, doesn't feel racist. Did it sound racist?
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if you can't defend your accusation, then we'll merely take your post as just another unhinged Prog rant from the same person who thinks Ralph cut his wages by 40%.
> 
> 
> 
> I tend towards the latter but am willing to be surprised...



You are an idiot. No offense, but I've never had much success convincing an idiot of anything.


----------



## Macfury

You want to create a separate category for African American presidents because they shouldn't be subject to the same criticism as white presidents. The level of prejudice inherent in your statement is staggering.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So is your degradation of the only African American president the United States has ever had, and your rationale seems uncomfortably similar to the rationale used by people like Steve Bannon and Donald Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Buffoon-in-Chief strikes again!*

*Donald Trump pledges new law that has already existed for 20 years*










U.S. President Donald Trump wants to enact a new law restricting welfare benefits for immigrants for five years. But there’s a problem.

The law has already been on the books for 20 years.

Trump spoke at an Iowa rally Wednesday night, saying his administration would be “putting in legislation to that effect very shortly,” The Hill reported.

“The time has come for new immigration rules which say that those seeking admission into our country must be able to support themselves financially and should not use welfare for a period of at least five years,” Trump said at the rally.

** * **​
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act was passed in 1996 by former president Bill Clinton. The law states that immigrants will not be eligible for “federal means-tested public benefit” for five years after they arrive in the United States.

(GlobalNews)​


----------



## Macfury

I guess, CM, that you are our buffoon-poster-in-chief. 

Trump wants to strengthen the act to allow deportation if the immigrant accepts welfare payments within the first five years.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You are an idiot. No offense, but I've never had much success convincing an idiot of anything.


I imagine you've never had much success convincing ANYONE of anything--so great are your powers of persuasion.


----------



## FeXL

Right. You think Ralph cut your wages by 40% & I'm the idiot. You think Red Rachel's smart because she's 50 & I'm the idiot. You think the article I posted on a rewrite of the Alberta school curriculum clearly criticizing the absence of transparency about who was actually doing the rewrite was about the PC's & I'm the idiot. You think that getting screwed over by the Progs is somehow better than getting screwed over by the PC's & I'm the idiot. You think that being a complete & utter Prog ideologue incapable of self-examination is a good thing & I'm the idiot.

I could write pages more of the same type of examples but this will suffice.

This afternoon when you get home and before you reach into the fridge for that cold one, take a long, hard look in that hallway mirror and ask yourself, "Is it me?"

It is...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are an idiot.


Nor have I. Which is why I stopped with you years ago...



Freddie_Biff said:


> No offense, but I've never had much success convincing an idiot of anything.


----------



## FeXL

Goodgoodgood.

Senate Announces Probe Into Loretta Lynch's Possible Interference in Email Matter During 2016 Election



> _The Senate Judiciary Committee has opened a probe into former Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s efforts to shape the FBI's investigation into 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, the committee’s chairman announced Friday.
> 
> In a letter to Ms. Lynch, the committee asks her to detail the depths of her involvement in the FBI's investigation, including whether she ever assured Clinton confidantes that the probe wouldn’t "push too deeply into the matter."
> 
> Fired FBI Director James B. Comey has said publicly that Ms. Lynch tried to shape the way he talked about the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's emails, and he also hinted at other behavior "which I cannot talk about yet" that made him worried about Ms. Lynch's ability to make impartial decisions._​


Another one who would look good in a state-issued orange pantsuit.


----------



## FeXL

Where is the degradation?

Cite the exact words.

Surely you aren't equating criticism with degradation? If so, how many times have you degraded Harper, Klein & Trump, among others?



Freddie_Biff said:


> So is your degradation...


----------



## FeXL

That's OK. There are some who still don't get it.

Democrats Slowly Realizing Nobody Likes Them



> Despite the fact that Democrats are in the worst position at the federal and state level than either major political party since 1919, it took John Ossoff’s loss in Georgia’s special election Tuesday night for them to fully realize how much the American people don’t like them.
> 
> Representative Tim Ryan, a Democratic congressman from Ohio who has been an outspoken critic of his party’s messaging and platform, perfectly summed up Americans’ feelings towards Democrats.
> 
> *“Our brand is worse than Trump,” he told the New York Times.*


Yeah, my bold.

DING,DING,DING,DING,DING!!! We have a winnah!!! :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

So, recall some time back it became known that Bernie Sanders' wife, Jane, had driven Burlington College into bankruptcy? Well, there's a Federal probe into that & she's lawyered up.

Sanders lawyered up in federal probe of Burlington College



> As president of Burlington College in 2010, Sanders secured a $6.7 million loan from People’s United Bank, which the college used to purchase a 33-acre lakefront campus for the school.
> 
> Federal investigators are probing aspects of that land deal, according to Holm and another former employee who said they had been contacted by the FBI. Federal officials have declined to comment on the investigation.
> 
> The loan agreement required the college to provide evidence of more than $2 million in pledged donations as collateral. However, three donors — including the largest, listed at $1 million — have told VTDigger their pledges were misrepresented in the loan documents.


Huh. A Prog lying about financial matters.

Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

And even more from the compassionate, intellectual, left. This one from the Socialist-in-Chief.

VIOLENT RHETORIC ALERT! Bernie Sanders deletes ‘ridiculous and indefensible’ tweet — but not fast enough

https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffyMeh/status/878314183070072832/photo/1

Way to distance yourself from the whacked out left, Bernie! :clap:

Cross-posted on the Anti Prog thread.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Trump wants to strengthen the act to allow deportation if the immigrant accepts welfare payments within the first five years.


(a) if they are ineligible how are they to receive welfare payments?

(b) if they commit fraud in order to do so, what does the current law say about its effect on their immigration status?

(c) The Great Orange One should really learn how to, y'know, form a thought, and then a sentence, and then how to put a few of 'em together into something intelligible.

I continue to be astounded by your demonstrated willingness to rush to this creature's defence in all things, just because he's taken a wrecking ball to the social safety net.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> And even more from the compassionate, intellectual, left. This one from the Socialist-in-Chief.
> 
> VIOLENT RHETORIC ALERT! Bernie Sanders deletes ‘ridiculous and indefensible’ tweet — but not fast enough
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffyMeh/status/878314183070072832/photo/1
> 
> Way to distance yourself from the whacked out left, Bernie! :clap:


Funny how you didn't have any of this outrage when the Republicans were spreading the Obama "death panel" bull**** a year ago, which was far more worthy of criticism than Sanders tweet....



> former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wrote on Facebook, “The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care.”
> 
> Thus, the “death panels” lie was born, and seven years later it still remains potent. According to a new poll from Public Policy Polling, 60% of Americans—including 74% of Republicans and even 51% of Democrats—still either believe in or are unsure about the existence of death panels.
> 
> Why are so many Americans still clinging to 2009’s “Lie of the Year?” Tens of millions of people are receiving health care thanks to the Affordable Care Act, with no evidence of seniors or disabled citizens being forced to end their lives early due to a panel of government bureaucrats.
> 
> (Salon)​


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> create a separate category for African American presidents because they shouldn't be subject to the same criticism as white presidents. The level of prejudice inherent in your statement is staggering.


That would be a specific subset of prejudice. The subset being racism.

A case could be made that you are prejudice against democrats in general, and the opposite applies to others on ehmac, if using the same standards of evidence.

I don't see much reason to go down this road.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Right. You think Ralph cut your wages by 40% & I'm the idiot. You think Red Rachel's smart because she's 50 & I'm the idiot. You think the article I posted on a rewrite of the Alberta school curriculum clearly criticizing the absence of transparency about who was actually doing the rewrite was about the PC's & I'm the idiot. You think that getting screwed over by the Progs is somehow better than getting screwed over by the PC's & I'm the idiot. You think that being a complete & utter Prog ideologue incapable of self-examination is a good thing & I'm the idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> I could write pages more of the same type of examples but this will suffice.
> 
> 
> 
> This afternoon when you get home and before you reach into the fridge for that cold one, take a long, hard look in that hallway mirror and ask yourself, "Is it me?"
> 
> 
> 
> It is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nor have I. Which is why I stopped with you years ago...



Well, at least we agree on one thing: you're the idiot.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, at least we agree on one thing: you're the idiot.


No doubt about it Freddie--you've got to stop allowing your adolescent students to influence your thinking patterns.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Funny how you didn't have any of this outrage when the Republicans were spreading the Obama "death panel" bull**** a year ago, which was far more worthy of criticism than Sanders tweet....


Even insurance companies have death panels. What alternate reality are you living in?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> (b) if they commit fraud in order to do so, what does the current law say about its effect on their immigration status?


What does it say, CM?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> No doubt about it Freddie--you've got to stop allowing your adolescent students to influence your thinking patterns.


No kidding.

I read his response & the first thing that came to mind was a sobbing 5 year old standing in the school sand box, hands clenched at his sides in fists of rage, sand in his shoes, shorts & stuck to the tear trails on his face, hair in disarray and screaming, "I know you are but WhatAmI!!!"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> No kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> I read his response & the first thing that came to mind was a sobbing 5 year old standing in the school sand box, hands clenched at his sides in fists of rage, sand in his shoes, shorts & stuck to the tear trails on his face, hair in disarray and screaming, "I know you are but WhatAmI!!!"




Sounds like something you can relate to, what with all the vivid attention to detail.


----------



## Macfury

I just feel blessed that Freddie continues to favour EhMac with his insults when there are so many other respectful places that he says he likes much better.



FeXL said:


> No kidding.
> 
> I read his response & the first thing that came to mind was a sobbing 5 year old standing in the school sand box, hands clenched at his sides in fists of rage, sand in his shoes, shorts & stuck to the tear trails on his face, hair in disarray and screaming, "I know you are but WhatAmI!!!"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I just feel blessed that Freddie continues to favour EhMac with his insults when there are so many other respectful places that he says he likes much better.




You know, it it wasn't for Mark and I and the occasional other defender of those of us with a conscience, this place would be a complete echo chamber of alt-right sympathizers. As I said before, you don't run ehMac, no matter how much you think you want to.


----------



## Macfury

If I ran EhMac I would want you and CM to keep posting. Who else would supply the tissue-thin collectivist arguments for debate practice? 

And that famous conscience of yours? Nothing more than desire to have government force others to help expunge the sick and deep-seated guilt generated inside your own withered soul.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know, it it wasn't for Mark and I and the occasional other defender of those of us with a conscience, this place would be a complete echo chamber of alt-right sympathizers. As I said before, you don't run ehMac, no matter how much you think you want to.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, indeed!

I deal with you nearly every day on these boards...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sounds like something you can relate to, what with all the vivid attention to detail.


----------



## FeXL

So, what's the thrust here? That you goofs are the only ones on these boards with a conscience?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

The world is well & truly fukced if you guys possess the only consciences on these boards...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

You can't even raise criticism against FGM, Muslim repression of women, Muslim rape culture, Muslim repression & killing of gays, Muslim childhood brides (to name a few...) & you claim to possess some sort of conscience?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Freddie, you slay me...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know, it it wasn't for Mark and I and the occasional other defender of those of us with a conscience...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> If I ran EhMac I would


Don't feed the troll. Just advice, take it or leave it.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Don't feed the troll. Just advice, take it or leave it.


Sometimes I imagine the troll is Mr. Creosote...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Sometimes I imagine the troll is Mr. Creosote...


I think the explosion already happened.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, further on the socialist & his wife, the bankruptcy enabler.

Jane Sanders Lawyers Up



> Bernie Sanders was in the midst of an interview with a local TV reporter early last month when the senator fielded an unexpected question about an uncomfortable matter.
> 
> “There’s an implication, and from at least one individual, an explicit argument that when they called for an investigation into Burlington College that you used your influence to secure a loan from People’s United—”
> 
> Story Continued Below
> 
> The senator cut him off.


Can't run a college without going tits up & wanted to run a country...


----------



## SINC

Just wow.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Indeed.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ynG7bcH6ss[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk FGM s'more.

Fear Of Islam Should Not Enable Female Genital Mutilation Inside The United States



> Dr. Curry found that there is a *“large significant positive correlation between the percentage of women subject to FGM and the prevalence of Islam.”* Interestingly though, there is an almost equal negative correlation between the percentage of women subject to FGM and the prevalence of Christianity.


And, when even CNN takes notice:

The alarming rise of female genital mutilation in America

Of course, they deny any association with a particular religion. Yet, they note:



> Since 1990, the estimated number of girls and women in the US who have undergone or are at risk of the practice has more than tripled. The increase is due to rapid growth in the number of immigrants from countries where risk of FGM is greatest.


----------



## FeXL

The Ninth Circus continues it's legacy of having nearly 80% of it's decisions overturned...

TRUMP WINS: Supreme Court Tosses Most Injunctions Against Travel Ban



> This means that the broad-based travel ban injunction pressed by various courts was largely set aside; Trump’s travel ban has been vindicated in the main, since the vast majority of those seeking to enter the country have no specific relationship with an American citizen who has standing to sue — even though such standing itself is tenuous at best.


Related:

Supreme Court Reinstates Trump Travel Ban from Muslim-Majority Countries



> The Supreme Court of the United States announced Monday that it will review the lower court injunctions blocking enforcement of President Donald Trump’s executive order barring travel from six Muslim-majority countries.


Good. Now he has what Barry had.


----------



## Macfury

rps, the Supreme Court repeats what I said to you--that the travel ban was never illegal. The 9th Circuit only ruled that some party might be harmed by the ban.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, let's talk FGM s'more.


You do seem oddly fascinated by the topic. We all agree it's a terrible practice, it's illegal in the USA and Canada, as we discussed earlier. Has there been some new development that you'd like to discuss?



FeXL said:


> Of course, they deny any association with a particular religion. Yet, they note:


That's because it is not associated with a particular religion. It is associated with certain cultures in Asia, Africa and the Middle East primarily, but also in the recent past in North America, if you'll recall our earlier exchange on the topic.

It appears you think it is a useful weapon in your ongoing hate campaign against all things Islam, but it is misplaced and a concrete demonstration of your ignorance (intentional or otherwise).


----------



## FeXL

Yes, I am fascinated (and horrified) by the primitive practices of barbaric religious cultures. Some of them make me feel physically ill. Case in point...



CubaMark said:


> You do seem oddly fascinated by the topic.


Most decidedly, we all have _not_.



CubaMark said:


> We all agree it's a terrible practice,...


Yet it still occurs on a regular basis.



CubaMark said:


> ...it's illegal in the USA and Canada, as we discussed earlier.


Why, yes. Yes, I would. You'll find reference to it in both articles linked above.



CubaMark said:


> Has there been some new development that you'd like to discuss?


Go back to the first link. Read it. If you don't understand the statistical methodology applied, there's no shame. Just read the conclusion. It's in my first quote, bolded.



CubaMark said:


> That's because it is not associated with a particular religion.


It's merely a reminder that such mindsets have _no_ place in Western culture. And, if highlighting the barbaric practices of primitive cultures & religions is considered hate, so be it. Many of us would call it enlightenment...



CubaMark said:


> It appears you think it is a useful weapon in your ongoing hate campaign against all things Islam,...


The only ignorance on display here is yours.



CubaMark said:


> ...but it is misplaced and a concrete demonstration of your ignorance (intentional or otherwise).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yes, I am fascinated (and horrified) by the primitive practices of barbaric religious cultures. Some of them make me feel physically ill. Case in point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most decidedly, we all have _not_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet it still occurs on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, yes. Yes, I would. You'll find reference to it in both articles linked above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go back to the first link. Read it. If you don't understand the statistical methodology applied, there's no shame. Just read the conclusion. It's in my first quote, bolded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's merely a reminder that such mindsets have _no_ place in Western culture. And, if highlighting the barbaric practices of primitive cultures & religions is considered hate, so be it. Many of us would call it enlightenment...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only ignorance on display here is yours.




Who here is defending female genital mutilation, FeXL?


----------



## FeXL

Anybody who has not been critical of it. Silence speaks volumes.

Have _you_ spoken up about it, Freddie?

Jes' askin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who here is defending female genital mutilation, FeXL?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Anybody who has not been critical of it. Silence speaks volumes.


Guilty until proven innocent? Interesting perspective. Very Trumpian.

What a ridiculous notion.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, that's precisely what I said.

You're an idiot, CM. 

Cracker Jack box doctorates. Who knew?



CubaMark said:


> Guilty until proven innocent? Interesting perspective. Very Trumpian.
> 
> What a ridiculous notion.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You're an idiot, CM.


This from the guy who cries crocodile tears whenever someone calls him an asshole, or an alt-right bigot, or a racist, or prejudiced, because "progs" are mean and it hurts his feelings. 

Sticks and stones, FeXL. 

XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> This from the guy who cries crocodile tears whenever someone calls him an asshole, or an alt-right bigot, or a racist, or prejudiced, because "progs" are mean and it hurts his feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> Sticks and stones, FeXL.
> 
> 
> 
> XX)



Indeed. The most foul-mouthed person on these boards is the biggest snowflake.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed. The most foul-mouthed person on these boards is the biggest snowflake.


I would say that you have edged out FeXL for foul-mouthedness. It's just that you deliver occasional grandiose public shows of your conversion to decency before reverting to form.


----------



## FeXL

Where?

Quote the exact words.

You & Freddie are quick to make accusations and put words in other people's mouths yet when asked to provide proof of same, crickets.

It's the Prog way...

You both also are the first to name calling yet none of the names you use is even remotely accurate. Among others, alt-right. Really? There isn't an alt-right political perspective on these boards. None even close. How could I possibly be insulted by being called alt-right when I'm basking in the knowledge that the accuser doesn't have a clew what alt-right even means? Every time that term is thrown around on these boards by some idiotic Prog I LMAO. It's funny!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

And, once more, Islam isn't a race.

Unable to form a cogent argument on a level playing field, you resort to name-calling that isn't even accurate! Hilarious!

That's also the Prog way.

As far as me calling you an idiot, there is ample proof on these boards the term is accurate, Dr. Cracker Jack Box. Sue me for calling you something you actually are...



CubaMark said:


> This from the guy who cries crocodile tears...


----------



## FeXL

I agree. BTW, where's that mirror, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed. The most foul-mouthed person on these boards is the biggest snowflake.


----------



## CubaMark

*Just another day in Trumplandia......*










Donald Trump threatens Syrian President Bashar al-Assad over 'plan for new chemical attack' | The Independent

US defence officials "have no idea" why White House made statement on possible Syrian chemical attack | The Independent

Majority of Americans would give up alcohol to see Donald Trump impeached, finds survey | The Independent

Donald Trump's presidency causing global confidence in US to plummet, new survey shows | The Independent


----------



## FeXL

The Americans who think Trump should be impeached _should_ give up alcohol...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> Majority of Americans would give up alcohol to see Donald Trump impeached, finds survey


----------



## CubaMark

_...there is no background, no administration officials helping the press to understand why this statement was released, nothing.

Since this administration lies with impunity, you should assume it is a move toward war, and one which is not based in anything factual. Zero facts. Nothing.

Either this is a distraction so Fox News has some breaking news to discuss which is not the disastrous CBO score, or it's a distraction from Russia, or Trump actually wants to start laying the groundwork for more war in that region by lying to us about what is happening.
_(C&L)​


----------



## Macfury

I'm pretty happy with the way things have been going. At least Trump hasn't plummeted Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Libya into total chaos as Obama did.


----------



## wonderings

Majority of Americans would abstain from alcohol? Am I reading the article wrong when it says:
"The study carried out by Detox.net surveyed 1,013 men and women across the US. "

1,013 people were polled and that somehow creates a narrative where the majority of Americans are against him? Not saying they are all for him, but these little polls that are conducted and then used to somehow show something much much bigger then they are actually are. Come back with a couple hundred thousand people or more and maybe you have a better idea on how people are thinking through that single poll.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Majority of Americans would abstain from alcohol? Am I reading the article wrong when it says:
> "The study carried out by Detox.net surveyed 1,013 men and women across the US. "


wonderings, I didn't even click on the link. The headline sounded stupid in the first place & in the second was posted by a guy who has Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Undoubtedly this poll was carried out by the same tract of freaks & weirdos that accurately predicted Bill's Wife would win the election. All it is is sour grapes... XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> wonderings, I didn't even click on the link. The headline sounded stupid in the first place & in the second was posted by a guy who has Trump Derangement Syndrome.
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly this poll was carried out by the same tract of freaks & weirdos that accurately predicted Bill's Wife would win the election. All it is is sour grapes... XX)




And there you have it, folks: the exhaustive methods FeXL uses to perform his research and check facts.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And there you have it, folks: the exhaustive methods FeXL uses to perform his research and check facts.


What do your research and facts say about this issue?


----------



## FeXL

Speaking to your <snort> cadre of fans, Freddie? The silent majority? The ones who support you in all your accusations against me? Or is it the masses who shake their heads & roll their eyes every time you pull a gaffe and groan, "Not again...".

What facts?

Maybe it's because I was raised on the farm but I detect the taint of bull**** early & quickly and CM's whole post reeked of it, just by reading the headlines. I need not delve any deeper.

I don't need a PhD (fresh out of a box of Cracker Jacks!) to tell me that you can find a poll somewhere, anywhere, to square with your argument no matter how far off broadway your Trump Derangement Syndrome may be. Especially in this day & age where most of the media & half the country are losing their minds along with you.

And I'm still waiting for you to back your accusations. C'mon, Freddie! Share those pearls of wisdom with us!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> And there you have it, folks: the exhaustive methods FeXL uses to perform his research and check facts.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Speaking to your <snort> cadre of fans, Freddie? The silent majority? The ones who support you in all your accusations against me? Or is it the masses who shake their heads & roll their eyes every time you pull a gaffe and groan, "Not again...".
> 
> 
> 
> What facts?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's because I was raised on the farm but I detect the taint of bull**** early & quickly and CM's whole post reeked of it, just by reading the headlines. I need not delve any deeper.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need a PhD (fresh out of a box of Cracker Jacks!) to tell me that you can find a poll somewhere, anywhere, to square with your argument no matter how far off broadway your Trump Derangement Syndrome may be. Especially in this day & age where most of the media & half the country are losing their minds along with you.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm still waiting for you to back your accusations. C'mon, Freddie! Share those pearls of wisdom with us!!!




A rather long reply to a rather short quip. FeXL, you don't really want to know what people thing about your contributions to ehMac. You're one of the big reasons they left.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> A rather long reply to a rather short quip. FeXL, you don't really want to know what people thing about your contributions to ehMac. You're one of the big reasons they left.


Resorting to that sad story again? If people left because FeXL was posting, then they're what we now know as ...Snowflakes. 

Heaven help them if they'd come up against the wonderful, blistering posts from the likes of Macnutt. FeXL is a pussycat compared to the old tigers,


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Resorting to that sad story again? If people left because FeXL was posting, then they're what we now know as ...Snowflakes.
> 
> 
> 
> Heaven help them if they'd come up against the wonderful, blistering posts from the likes of Macnutt. FeXL is a pussycat compared to the old tigers,



No, they actually left because of the typical alt-right rudeness and lack of conversational skills of both you and FeXL, truth be told. If you don't believe me, just ask them. You know where they are.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they actually left because of the typical alt-right rudeness and lack of conversational skills of both you and FeXL, truth be told. If you don't believe me, just ask them. You know where they are.


I believe you're part of a group of like-minded snowflake-y leftwingers who would rather seek their own company than expose their thoughts to competition n a marketplace of ideas. They've retired now to the shuffleboard of online forums, and I commend them for their graceful exits.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I believe you're part of a group of like-minded snowflake-y leftwingers who would rather seek their own company than expose their thoughts to competition n a marketplace of ideas. They've retired now to the shuffleboard of online forums, and I commend them for their graceful exits.



No, they just got tired of hearing your opinions all the time. Much like I feel around here most of the time. You're the first one to respond—I'll give you participation points for that. But you often make an inflammatory remark right off the get go. Shame on me for responding to it. And then FeXL doubles down on whatever you say in his condescending manner. It's all just so...predictable. And boring for onlookers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, your posting style on EhMac is often the equivalent of explosive diarrhea. Pardon me if I ignore the sage advice of someone who demonstrates such little self-control. I'm not here to provide watered down sappy posts for an audience of delicate old progs and codgers. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they just got tired of hearing your opinions all the time. Much like I feel around here most of the time. You're the first one to respond—I'll give you participation points for that. But you often make an inflammatory remark right off the get go. Shame on me for responding to it. And then FeXL doubles down on whatever you say in his condescending manner. It's all just so...predictable. And boring for onlookers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes a few words, sometimes a paragraph or more.



Freddie_Biff said:


> A rather long reply to a rather short quip.


Do you think I give a fat rodent's arse what other people think of my posts? Unlike you, Freddie, I don't post to please the masses.



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, you don't really want to know what people thing about your contributions to ehMac.


Yeah, 'cause they kept on getting their butts handed to them in arguments on an even playing field. This place used to be filled with Progs. Most of them have gone elsewhere to commiserate together. :-(

I'm struggling to figger out how that's a bad thing...

'Sides, they can't find it that distasteful. From what I understand, some visit here anonymously regularly. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You're one of the big reasons they left.


----------



## FeXL

Guess that's why us on the right are better folk.

See, we never tire of listening to you embarrass yourself on these boards... :clap:



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they just got tired of hearing your opinions all the time.


----------



## FeXL

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for ya, Freddie. Take it or leave it, as you will. Concerning these boards:

I will not let bull**** pass unmolested and I will not be ruled.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And then FeXL doubles down on whatever you say in his condescending manner.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for ya, Freddie. Take it or leave it, as you will. Concerning these boards:
> 
> 
> 
> I will not let bull**** pass unmolested and I will not be ruled.




That's a rather telling statement. No wonder you like Trump so much.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> *
> Majority of Americans would give up alcohol to see Donald Trump impeached, finds survey | The Independent
> *


*

This line captures the sentiment:
A new survey has found nearly 73 per cent of Democrats and 17 per cent of Republicans said they would cut out the liquor if the official political process of removing the President were to be put in motion.

The vast majority of Democrats, in this questionable poll, value a symbolic gesture to change the outcome of an election. Note that the focus is not on rejuvenating the policy focus. Just #soberuntilapoliticalprocessstarts 

This is a problem, and I prefer when two or more parties are credible and competitive in their pursuit of voter interests. This joke is not helpful.*


----------



## Beej

U.S. politics is in this weird place where progressives and moderate conservatives are saying that there is something wrong with the Democrat party, but the party seems intent on continuing down their current path.

A centre-right person as an example:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5HBTGr_h7s[/ame]

I agree with the general diagnosis, but we are in the middle of frenzied media politics. Does anyone remember if similar conclusions were so wide spread during the peak "Obamacare" debates or Benghazi committees?

To boil it down, what are your thoughts on if this is a "thing" or if it is just the normal scrambling that happens after one party loses the presidency?

I think it is a thing, but would like to read opposing opinions.


----------



## Macfury

It's not normal. The sense of entitlement preceding this election was epic. It's as if though the progs were born in 2008 and thought it was the new normal. 



Beej said:


> U.S. politics is in this weird place where progressives and moderate conservatives are saying that there is something wrong with the Democrat party, but the party seems intent on continuing down their current path.
> 
> A centre-right person as an example:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5HBTGr_h7s
> 
> I agree with the general diagnosis, but we are in the middle of frenzied media politics. Does anyone remember if similar conclusions were so wide spread during the peak "Obamacare" debates or Benghazi committees?
> 
> To boil it down, what are your thoughts on if this is a "thing" or if it is just the normal scrambling that happens after one party loses the presidency?
> 
> I think it is a thing, but would like to read opposing opinions.


----------



## FeXL

What, not Hitler?



Freddie_Biff said:


> No wonder you like Trump so much.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What, not Hitler?




Hitler wasn't well-known for his molestation the way Trump is.


----------



## MazterCBlazter

FeXL said:


> Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for ya, Freddie. Take it or leave it, as you will. Concerning these boards:
> 
> I will not let bull**** pass unmolested and I will not be ruled.


FeXL, 

You are the source of Bull**** lies and missinformation.

Shame how ehMac let's all your hate mongering go unchecked.


----------



## SINC

MazterCBlazter said:


> FeXL,
> 
> You are the source of Bull**** lies and missinformation.
> 
> Shame how ehMac let's all your hate mongering go unchecked.


This type of post does nothing to change things on ehMac. 

You become as guilty as those you accuse by posting yet another accusation.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, MCB. 'Sup?

You levelled this accusation at me before. I challenged you to cite any examples of lies or missinformation. Thus far, you haven't.

If you aren't willing to support your conjecture, then you're just as FOS as the Progs on these boards. 

Don't stoop to their level. You're better than that.

Have a nice day.



MazterCBlazter said:


> FeXL,
> 
> You are the source of Bull**** lies and missinformation.
> 
> Shame how ehMac let's all your hate mongering go unchecked.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> This type of post does nothing to change things on ehMac.
> 
> 
> 
> You become as guilty as those you accuse by posting yet another accusation.



Actually it does change things. Someone is calling him on his bull**** besides me and Mark. About bloody time.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Actually it does change things. Someone is calling him on his bull**** besides me and Mark. About bloody time.


:-(


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You levelled this accusation at me before. I challenged you to cite any examples of lies or missinformation. Thus far, you haven't..


*I did.* 

I helpfully showed how your obsession with obscure far-right wacko websites and the information you've drawn from them (Pamela Geller's site for one) were full of lies and misinformation. The pilot of the GermanWings flight that went down a couple of years ago was, in your view, some kind of closet jihadist conspiracy. The truth was revealed to you. And you never did admit you were wrong, or accept reality. You have intentionally refused to come clean, which to my mind indicates that you are just fine with leaving the anti-muslim slander out there to influence the perspective of folks who might read the lies you posted.

But hey, that was a long time ago now, you probably think we should just forgive and forget, right?


----------



## CubaMark

*How surreal is Trump?

The Buffoon-in-Chief has even begun framing Fake News and hanging it in his clubhouses. Narcissist much?*

*Time asks Trump Organization to remove fake cover from golf clubs*









Time magazine has asked the Trump Organization to remove copies of a fake cover of President Trump that were on display at the company’s golf clubs, The Washington Post reported Tuesday afternoon.

The request came after the newspaper reported that at least four Trump-branded golf clubs had displayed a fake Time magazine cover that depicted Trump with the headline “Donald Trump: The ‘Apprentice’ is a television smash!” 

The cover, dated March 1, 2009, was never published by the magazine at any point, a spokeswoman for Time confirmed.

“I can confirm that this is not a real TIME cover,” Kerri Chyka wrote to the Post in an email.

The fake cover was reportedly hanging in at least two of Trump's golf clubs in the U.S.

Another one was reportedly displayed at Trump's resort in Ireland, but was recently moved from a restaurant area to a manager's office. 

A cover that had also been displayed at the Trump’s Turnberry club in Scotland was removed a few weeks ago without explanation, the Post reported.

The fake cover was reportedly interspersed with real magazine covers in at least at one location.

Trump has previously touted his appearances on the cover of the magazine.

"I think I was on the cover of Time magazine twice in my life and like six times in the last number of months," Trump said in July 2016.

"So you tell me which is more important, real estate or politics, OK? I have six for politics and I have two for real estate or whatever they put me on for."

The Post noted that Trump had actually only been featured on the magazine's cover once before entering politics, in January 1989, when he was known as a New York business mogul.
(The Hill)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *How surreal is Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> The Buffoon-in-Chief has even begun framing Fake News and hanging it in his clubhouses. Narcissist much?*
> 
> 
> 
> *Time asks Trump Organization to remove fake cover from golf clubs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time magazine has asked the Trump Organization to remove copies of a fake cover of President Trump that were on display at the company’s golf clubs, The Washington Post reported Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> The request came after the newspaper reported that at least four Trump-branded golf clubs had displayed a fake Time magazine cover that depicted Trump with the headline “Donald Trump: The ‘Apprentice’ is a television smash!”
> 
> 
> 
> The cover, dated March 1, 2009, was never published by the magazine at any point, a spokeswoman for Time confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> “I can confirm that this is not a real TIME cover,” Kerri Chyka wrote to the Post in an email.
> 
> 
> 
> The fake cover was reportedly hanging in at least two of Trump's golf clubs in the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> Another one was reportedly displayed at Trump's resort in Ireland, but was recently moved from a restaurant area to a manager's office.
> 
> 
> 
> A cover that had also been displayed at the Trump’s Turnberry club in Scotland was removed a few weeks ago without explanation, the Post reported.
> 
> 
> 
> The fake cover was reportedly interspersed with real magazine covers in at least at one location.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump has previously touted his appearances on the cover of the magazine.
> 
> 
> 
> "I think I was on the cover of Time magazine twice in my life and like six times in the last number of months," Trump said in July 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> "So you tell me which is more important, real estate or politics, OK? I have six for politics and I have two for real estate or whatever they put me on for."
> 
> 
> 
> The Post noted that Trump had actually only been featured on the magazine's cover once before entering politics, in January 1989, when he was known as a New York business mogul.
> 
> (The Hill)​



This is the prime example of Fake News. And anyway, if he distrusts the MSM so much, why did he desire so much to be on the cover of Time that he had one fabricated? It's not like he hasn't been there before. 






































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

The PussyGrabber-in-Chief has spurred renewed usage of a word that has of late fallen out of use: *Letch*.

*Trump Interrupts Call to Compliment Female Reporter’s ‘Nice Smile’*










Trump was congratulating Leo Varadkar on becoming prime minister, and mentioned that Irish reporters were among those listening.

Trump then pointed to Perry, called her over to his desk and asked where she was from.

Perry identified herself, and then Trump told Varadkar: “She has a nice smile on her face so I bet she treats you well.”

Video of the encounter is making the rounds on social media.

Perry also tweeted the video. She described the encounter as a “bizarre moment.”

(WashingtonPost)​


----------



## FeXL

Asked. Answered. Multiple times. 

In thousands upon thousands of my posts you have issues with a handful (like what, 4?) of my references. Fine.

You seem to think that means absolutely everything I post after that is suddenly without foundation. Fine. Seriously fukced up, but fine.

Now, let's put the shoe on the other foot.

1. You've posted any number of articles defending subsidies given to alternative energy as less than those given to fossil-based fuels. I've shown, time & again, that your numbers are wrong. Period.

2. You've posted any number of articles claiming that renewables were at or near parity to fossil-based fuels. I've shown, time & again, that unless we're talking areas so remote as to be unreachable by conventional energy, your cited articles are wrong. Period.

3. You claimed that Musk had not received any subsidies for Tesla. I showed you an article highlighting the point that he has received in excess of $5 billion in subsidies. You were wrong. Period.

4. You think that gun control is a good thing & will cause less deaths yet I have quoted articles that clearly show that more gun ownership, not less, equates to fewer deaths & a safer society. You were wrong. Period.

5. You won't even step into the GHG thread because you know you don't have an argument that will stand up to scrutiny. You're wrong. Period.

In sum, anytime you want to kneel down at the confessional & retract the hundreds of posts where I've proven you wrong, I'll be right behind you.

1. You attack people like Pamella Geller & Ezra Levant & websites like Brietbart (f'instance) as out of hand without even addressing their arguments. If what they say is so full of holes, it should be fairly easy to defeat their arguments. But you don't. You bring up the tired old saw that Ezra once was sued for libel or whatever &, same as you do with me, anything he has to say is immediately written off as out of hand. That's an ad hominem attack. That's not defeating their arguments.

2. In your own arguments, you use any number of logical fallacies, not limited to but including appeals to authority. 

3. You have also, multiple times, included a refutation to your argument in the very quote or article you posted on these boards.

4. You, too, have accused me of things that, when asked for evidence of, just disappeared into the ether, never to be addressed again.

5. You also have called me any number of names (in merely another of many ad hominem attacks) that hold absolutely no water: racist, bigot, alt-right, misogynist, etc., etc., etc.

6. You openly admit on these boards to being a hypocrite in regards to me: double standards apply. 

So, in addition, I'll continue to dissect your posts, point by feeble point, instead of merely writing you off as an idiot because of your past history (a small portion of which is noted above).

Guess that makes me a better person than you... 



CubaMark said:


> blah, blahblah, blahblahblah.


----------



## Macfury

Meanwhile, while ninnies nitpick, fast forward on the Trump agenda!


----------



## FeXL

It matters not to me how many yappy, toothless dogs are nipping at my heels... :lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Actually it does change things. Someone is calling him on his bull**** besides me and Mark. About bloody time.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> It matters not to me how many yappy, toothless dogs are nipping at my heels... :lmao:


Who cares what old Bodger and Toodles are doing, while giants walk the earth, eh?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Who cares what old Bodger and Toodles are doing, while giants walk the earth, eh?


Beauty...


----------



## FeXL

No wonder this dropped off the news so quickly...

Man charged with murdering Muslim girl previously accused in sex assault case, had ties to MS-13 gang



> The suspect charged with murdering a 17-year-old Muslim girl during Ramadan was accused of sexually assaulting another woman a week before the teen’s slaying in Virginia and is reportedly an MS-13 gang member.
> 
> Darwin Martinez Torres, of El Salvador, allegedly sent a woman to hospital after he punched and choked her, according to a Loudoun County Child Protective Services report obtained by the Washington Post.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> No wonder this dropped off the news so quickly...


Does "dropped off the news" simply mean something that you haven't noticed? 

http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=Darwin+Martinez+Torres


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Does "dropped off the news" simply mean something that you haven't noticed?
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=Darwin+Martinez+Torres



Some folks are impervious to any thoughts except their own. Props for keeping up the good fight though. More thoughtful people appear to be coming out of the woodwork.


----------



## FeXL

Seriously? Did you just link to a Ggle search & expect me to click on it?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

If you want, you can try a DuckDuckGo search or even a Startingpage one. Those I may try. Anything else? Forget it...

Oh, & you can tell yer buddy Freddie to read the first line of the quote he posted in Dr.G's new thread seeing as he's having difficulty identifying political from non-political posts. I don't want to interrupt the thread any more than I already have...



CubaMark said:


> Does "dropped off the news" simply mean something that you haven't noticed?


----------



## FeXL

What's this? :yikes:

Not everybody in CA has sucked back the kool-aid? 

California Recall Over Gas Tax Hike Gains



> California Republicans opposed to the latest gas tax increase said they have gathered more than enough signatures to launch a recall effort against Assemblyman Josh Newman, a recently elected Democrat whose surprise win gave his party a super-majority that could pass tax increases without a single GOP vote.
> 
> Carl DeMaio, a conservative San Diego talk radio host who is leading the recall effort, said Republicans opposed to the most recent gas tax hike Newman backed submitted 84,988 signatures for the recall effort on Tuesday, nearly 20,000 more than the 63,592 the law requires.
> 
> "The overwhelming number of signatures we collected in just six weeks demonstrates a real rebellion is brewing in California against the out-of-control tax raisers in the state legislature," DeMaio told the _Washington Free Beacon_.


And some of them actually have a spine? :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Obama's Criminal Enterprise Collapsing



> As former FBI Director James Comey’s best friend, Robert Mueller, stocks his Seinfeld investigation-about-nothing with every Democratic lawyer and Hillary and/or Obama donor he can find, we are treated to the delicious irony of collusion with Russia being confirmed -- and the colluder-in-chief being Ex-president Barack Hussein Obama.
> 
> Even Obama’s Democrat supporters are now acknowledging he knew about Russia’s hacking of the DNC and Podesta emails. They are acknowledging that he did nothing but are not acknowledging the reason why – that he thought Hillary Clinton was going to succeed him and he wanted to do nothing to offend the Russians to whom he had once famously promised more “flexibility.”


----------



## Macfury

There's a large part of California that is unwillingly being carried along with urban prog insanity. That's why California secession would likely result in a large part of the state remaining behind.



FeXL said:


> What's this? :yikes:
> 
> Not everybody in CA has sucked back the kool-aid?
> 
> California Recall Over Gas Tax Hike Gains
> 
> 
> 
> And some of them actually have a spine? :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> There's a large part of California that is unwillingly being carried along with urban prog insanity. That's why California secession would likely result in a large part of the state remaining behind.


The frightening thing is, they'd be caught up between SoCal & Oregon. A veritable Scylla & Charybdis...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL: the only response your post merits is: *bull*****. Oh, wait. Let's add: *delusional*.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> FeXL: the only response your post merits is: *bull*****. Oh, wait. Let's add: *delusional*.


Nice analytical work as usual, CM. When did you decide that intellectual laziness suited you?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Nice analytical work as usual, CM. When did you decide that intellectual laziness suited you?


It's the first test for being a Prog. Dr. Cracker Jack aced it...


----------



## CubaMark

*What the ever-loving ****?

This is the President of the United States of America, everyone. Soak it up.*

*Donald Trump launches astonishing attack on US television presenter Mika Brzezinski*

President Donald Trump has launched a remarkably personal attack on television host Mika Brzezinski, describing her as "bleeding badly from a face-lift" as she begged to spend the New Year's holiday with him.

** * *​*
...instead of focusing on the policies, as his White House aides berate the media for failing to do, Mr Trump spent Thursday morning attacking Brzezinski, co-host of MSNBC's politically-focused breakfast show, Morning Joe:










** * **​
The tweets were greeted with disgust on social media, with many pointing out that Melania Trump said she wanted to make cyber bullying the focus of her work.
(Telegraph)​


----------



## Macfury

This follows Scarborough's bizarre anti-trump "rock" video featuring himself and Brezinski. Or are you posting in an information vacuum again, CM?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *What the ever-loving ****?
> 
> 
> 
> This is the President of the United States of America, everyone. Soak it up.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald Trump launches astonishing attack on US television presenter Mika Brzezinski*
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump has launched a remarkably personal attack on television host Mika Brzezinski, describing her as "bleeding badly from a face-lift" as she begged to spend the New Year's holiday with him.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * *​*
> 
> 
> ...instead of focusing on the policies, as his White House aides berate the media for failing to do, Mr Trump spent Thursday morning attacking Brzezinski, co-host of MSNBC's politically-focused breakfast show, Morning Joe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> The tweets were greeted with disgust on social media, with many pointing out that Melania Trump said she wanted to make cyber bullying the focus of her work.
> 
> (Telegraph)​




I'd call him a man-child, but even a child has less narcissism than this idiot. He is a walking steaming pile of ego.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> This follows Scarborough's bizarre anti-trump "rock" video featuring himself and Brezinski. Or are you posting in an information vacuum again, CM?


So, in your perspective, something that two talking heads said or did on a tv show merits this kind of response from the leader of the United States.

You would call his behaviour "Presidential".

I would call it petty, narcissistic, boorish, misogynist and hateful.

This is why, apart from the odd episode of the Walking Dead, you and I rarely agree on anything.


----------



## Macfury

It's not "presidential." Trump is not a politician. I would advise him not to tweet like this, but as long as he keeps political reform going in the same direction, it's a quibble.



CubaMark said:


> So, in your perspective, something that two talking heads said or did on a tv show merits this kind of response from the leader of the United States.
> 
> You would call his behaviour "Presidential".
> 
> I would call it petty, narcissistic, boorish, misogynist and hateful.
> 
> This is why, apart from the odd episode of the Walking Dead, you and I rarely agree on anything.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....it's a quibble.


_I find that attitude to be reprehensible. 

Apparently, even some top Republicans agree with me:_

*Republicans condemn Trump for crude tweets about "Morning Joe"*

The messages, some of the most graphic and personal since Trump became president, were condemned by Republicans who are struggling to push Trump’s legislative agenda forward while the White House is consumed by the Russia probes and self-inflicted dramas.

“Obviously, I don't see that as an appropriate comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said Thursday during his weekly press conference, adding, "Look, what we're trying to do around here is improve the tone, the civility of the debate, and this obviously doesn't help do that."

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) went further, tweeting, "Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America.”

Graham later told POLITICO that Trump's insult was "highly inappropriate" regardless of any impact it might have on distracting from the GOP agenda. Asked if the president should apologize, Graham said, "I would, if I were" Trump.

The tweets echo some of Trump's attacks from the campaign trail, during which he went after then-Fox News host Megyn Kelly after the first debate by saying, "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever."
(Politico)​


----------



## Macfury

I would expect Graham to agree with you. He was one of the bitterest losers in the Republican primary and has dogged Trump since the election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _I find that attitude to be reprehensible.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, even some top Republicans agree with me:_
> 
> 
> 
> *Republicans condemn Trump for crude tweets about "Morning Joe"*
> 
> 
> 
> The messages, some of the most graphic and personal since Trump became president, were condemned by Republicans who are struggling to push Trump’s legislative agenda forward while the White House is consumed by the Russia probes and self-inflicted dramas.
> 
> 
> 
> “Obviously, I don't see that as an appropriate comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said Thursday during his weekly press conference, adding, "Look, what we're trying to do around here is improve the tone, the civility of the debate, and this obviously doesn't help do that."
> 
> 
> 
> Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) went further, tweeting, "Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America.”
> 
> 
> 
> Graham later told POLITICO that Trump's insult was "highly inappropriate" regardless of any impact it might have on distracting from the GOP agenda. Asked if the president should apologize, Graham said, "I would, if I were" Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> The tweets echo some of Trump's attacks from the campaign trail, during which he went after then-Fox News host Megyn Kelly after the first debate by saying, "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever."
> 
> (Politico)​



He really has a thing about blood and TV hosts doesn't he? I am reminded of his words about Megyn Kelly, who had blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.


----------



## Macfury

If only they would stop bleeding in public!


----------



## FeXL

So, lemmee get this straight...

It's perfectly OK for for members of mass media to proclaim unfounded things about Trump like, for instance, he has a mental disorder, but as soon as he responds in kind, he's the bad guy and <harrumph, harrumph> very unpresidential?

Is that correct? Does that about sum up the double standard you're portraying here? 'Cause I jes' wanna make sure I got this right... 



CubaMark said:


> I find that attitude to be reprehensible.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> So, lemmee get this straight...
> 
> It's perfectly OK for for members of mass media to proclaim unfounded things about Trump...


Other than parroting the MSM, they wouldn't who know Joe and Mika were if they bit them in the ass...


----------



## CubaMark

If you two (and so far as I can see, it's only you two in this forum) think that Trump's behaviour, in this issue and many other previous instances, is worthy of the person who occupies the highest office in the land, then there's really not much sense in debating with you. You've obviously taken leave of your senses, beyond your ideological depravities.

Meanwhile, *Republican* strategist Ana Navarro has a message for Trump (since you won't take anything *I* say seriously):

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNWLwHExP5U[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Cuba, you aren't even reading my posts. I said he would be better off not making some of those tweets. However, why bother parading a bunch of quotes from RINOs who backed Romney and McCain--you wouldn't agree with them on any other issue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If only they would stop bleeding in public!



I can't see how Mar-a-Lago, a privately owned golf club, would be considered public. Seriously, dude—check your manners.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, lemmee get this straight...
> 
> 
> 
> It's perfectly OK for for members of mass media to proclaim unfounded things about Trump like, for instance, he has a mental disorder, but as soon as he responds in kind, he's the bad guy and <harrumph, harrumph> very unpresidential?
> 
> 
> 
> Is that correct? Does that about sum up the double standard you're portraying here? 'Cause I jes' wanna make sure I got this right...



Is unchecked narcissism a mental disorder? That's kind of the key factor in this here discussion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Ana Navarro gets it and describes 45 to a T. The only thing is, he won't change nor does he see any need to. These are dark days for the Republic of the United States. Wait until somebody belittles his tiny little missiles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> If you two (and so far as I can see, it's only you two in this forum) think that Trump's behaviour, in this issue and many other previous instances, is worthy of the person who occupies the highest office in the land, then there's really not much sense in debating with you. You've obviously taken leave of your senses, beyond your ideological depravities.


That's not my take on what Macfury wrote. This seems to be a straw man argument in at least the one case.

I read his posts as saying that the behaviour is not recommended, but that what matters is the policies. I agree with that. I would prefer a more reserved president, where "outbursts" are used to highlight important matters, instead of outbursts being the new normal. But the policies and, more broadly, political actions are what matters most.

On those policies and actions being good or bad, there's plenty of room for debate. Elevating crass tweets above those matters is, to me, a more difficult debate. Go for it. I can see arguments on both sides of that debate.

But I don't think that's what you are arguing, and I don't want to excoriate a straw CM in the process of responding. So leave that in the "debate an unattributed idea" pile.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ana Navarro gets it and describes 45 to a T. The only thing is, he won't change nor does he see any need to. These are dark days for the Republic of the United States. Wait until somebody belittles his tiny little missiles.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have liked Ana Navarro from the start. Sadly, what you say is all too true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This is what a real President sounds like. Obama weighs in with some important observations about Trumpcare. 












> Our politics are divided. They have been for a long time. And while I know that division makes it difficult to listen to Americans with whom we disagree, that’s what we need to do today.
> 
> I recognize that repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act has become a core tenet of the Republican Party. Still, I hope that our Senators, many of whom I know well, step back and measure what’s really at stake, and consider that the rationale for action, on health care or any other issue, must be something more than simply undoing something that Democrats did.
> 
> We didn’t fight for the Affordable Care Act for more than a year in the public square for any personal or political gain – we fought for it because we knew it would save lives, prevent financial misery, and ultimately set this country we love on a better, healthier course.
> 
> Nor did we fight for it alone. Thousands upon thousands of Americans, including Republicans, threw themselves into that collective effort, not for political reasons, but for intensely personal ones – a sick child, a parent lost to cancer, the memory of medical bills that threatened to derail their dreams.
> 
> And you made a difference. For the first time, more than ninety percent of Americans know the security of health insurance. Health care costs, while still rising, have been rising at the slowest pace in fifty years. Women can’t be charged more for their insurance, young adults can stay on their parents’ plan until they turn 26, contraceptive care and preventive care are now free. Paying more, or being denied insurance altogether due to a preexisting condition – we made that a thing of the past.
> 
> We did these things together. So many of you made that change possible.
> 
> At the same time, I was careful to say again and again that while the Affordable Care Act represented a significant step forward for America, it was not perfect, nor could it be the end of our efforts – and that if Republicans could put together a plan that is demonstrably better than the improvements we made to our health care system, that covers as many people at less cost, I would gladly and publicly support it.
> 
> That remains true. So I still hope that there are enough Republicans in Congress who remember that public service is not about sport or notching a political win, that there’s a reason we all chose to serve in the first place, and that hopefully, it’s to make people’s lives better, not worse.
> 
> But right now, after eight years, the legislation rushed through the House and the Senate without public hearings or debate would do the opposite. It would raise costs, reduce coverage, roll back protections, and ruin Medicaid as we know it. That’s not my opinion, but rather the conclusion of all objective analyses, from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which found that 23 million Americans would lose insurance, to America’s doctors, nurses, and hospitals on the front lines of our health care system.
> 
> The Senate bill, unveiled today, is not a health care bill. It’s a massive transfer of wealth from middle-class and poor families to the richest people in America. It hands enormous tax cuts to the rich and to the drug and insurance industries, paid for by cutting health care for everybody else. Those with private insurance will experience higher premiums and higher deductibles, with lower tax credits to help working families cover the costs, even as their plans might no longer cover pregnancy, mental health care, or expensive prescriptions. Discrimination based on pre-existing conditions could become the norm again. Millions of families will lose coverage entirely.
> 
> Simply put, if there’s a chance you might get sick, get old, or start a family – this bill will do you harm. And small tweaks over the course of the next couple weeks, under the guise of making these bills easier to stomach, cannot change the fundamental meanness at the core of this legislation.
> 
> I hope our Senators ask themselves – what will happen to the Americans grappling with opioid addiction who suddenly lose their coverage? What will happen to pregnant mothers, children with disabilities, poor adults and seniors who need long-term care once they can no longer count on Medicaid? What will happen if you have a medical emergency when insurance companies are once again allowed to exclude the benefits you need, send you unlimited bills, or set unaffordable deductibles? What impossible choices will working parents be forced to make if their child’s cancer treatment costs them more than their life savings?
> 
> To put the American people through that pain – while giving billionaires and corporations a massive tax cut in return – that’s tough to fathom. But it’s what’s at stake right now. So it remains my fervent hope that we step back and try to deliver on what the American people need.
> 
> That might take some time and compromise between Democrats and Republicans. But I believe that’s what people want to see. I believe it would demonstrate the kind of leadership that appeals to Americans across party lines. And I believe that it’s possible – if you are willing to make a difference again. If you’re willing to call your members of Congress. If you are willing to visit their offices. If you are willing to speak out, let them and the country know, in very real terms, what this means for you and your family.
> 
> After all, this debate has always been about something bigger than politics. It’s about the character of our country – who we are, and who we aspire to be. And that’s always worth fighting for.


http://redstatewatcher.com/article.asp?id=83097


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

You claim it isn't... 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Is unchecked narcissism a mental disorder?


----------



## FeXL

So, let's play put the shoe on the other foot again, shall we?

Where were you when Barry was caught taking selfies at a state funeral?

Where were you when Putin was sporting about the country shirtless?

Where were you when Juthdin was sporting about shirtless?

Where were you when Juthdin was photographed posing with a topless female?

How many of these things do you consider presidential or prime ministerial, hypocrite?



CubaMark said:


> If you two (and so far as I can see, it's only you two in this forum) think that Trump's behaviour, in this issue and many other previous instances, is worthy of the person who occupies the highest office in the land, then there's really not much sense in debating with you.


There are at least 3, maybe as many as 5, ideologues on these boards. Curiously, all of them are on the left. Ergo, you may consider yourself among the counted.



CubaMark said:


> You've obviously taken leave of your senses, beyond your ideological depravities.


Ah, yes. The old logical fallacy, appealling to authority.

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for you, too, Dr. Cracker Jack: If you weren't so FOS all the time, you'd have more credibility on these boards, too.



CubaMark said:


> Meanwhile, *Republican* strategist Ana Navarro has a message for Trump (since you won't take anything *I* say seriously):


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> This is what a real President sounds like.


He sounds like a worn-out partisan hack trying to save the one pathetic piece of legislation with his name on it. That statement has the stink of flop sweat all over it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, let's play put the shoe on the other foot again, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> Where were you when Barry was caught taking selfies at a state funeral?
> 
> 
> 
> Where were you when Putin was sporting about the country shirtless?
> 
> 
> 
> Where were you when Juthdin was sporting about shirtless?
> 
> 
> 
> Where were you when Juthdin was photographed posing with a topless female?
> 
> 
> 
> How many of these things do you consider presidential or prime ministerial, hypocrite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are at least 3, maybe as many as 5, ideologues on these boards. Curiously, all of them are on the left. Ergo, you may consider yourself among the counted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes. The old logical fallacy, appealling to authority.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for you, too, Dr. Cracker Jack: If you weren't so FOS all the time, you'd have more credibility on these boards, too.




Mark has far more credibility than you will ever have. You keep dreaming.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He sounds like a worn-out partisan hack trying to save the one pathetic piece of legislation with his name on it. That statement has the stink of flop sweat all over it.




No, he sounds like a grownup. He explains in much detail why health care is so important and a bipartisan issue. Meanwhile Trump is on his tweeting tantrum rampage again. Even Republicans are sick that Trump would tweet about someone's face. The man-child has a serious personality disorder.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, he sounds like a grownup. He explains in much detail why health care is so important and a bipartisan issue.


Obamacare was never bipartisan. The "much detail" is just reams of nonsense designed to normalize a Democrat power grab that he orchestrated--digital flop sweat designed to save his imploding legislative failure.

Goodbye Obamacare!


----------



## FeXL

Quoth the guy with no credibility.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Mark has far more credibility than you will ever have.


The iron...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep dreaming.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Quoth the guy with no credibility.
> 
> The iron...


It's a new one--they're appealing to each other's authority.

If they keep revolving around each other at that speed, eventually they'll achieve orbit!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obamacare was never bipartisan. The "much detail" is just reams of nonsense designed to normalize a Democrat power grab that he orchestrated--digital flop sweat designed to save his imploding legislative failure.
> 
> 
> 
> Goodbye Obamacare!




Goodbye, 23 million Americans! Place was getting too crowded anyway.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Goodbye, 23 million Americans! Place was getting too crowded anyway.


Yes, they'll all be dead. :-(

Do you think you could do a little better job than that getting into the actual issues involved? If I repeal a law that forced everyone to buy oranges, whether they want them or not, the Freddie news organization would run a headline saying:

"Millions deprived of oranges! Women and children hardest hit!"

You're not doing a good job of making your case.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, they'll all be dead. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think you could do a little better job than that getting into the actual issues involved? If I repeal a law that forced everyone to buy oranges, whether they want them or not, the Freddie news organization would run a headline saying:
> 
> 
> 
> "Millions deprived of oranges! Women and children hardest hit!"
> 
> 
> 
> You're not doing a good job of making your case.




It's not my case. Do you think you could do a better job of inferencing? 23 million people will lose their health care. Many of them will be bankrupt, lose their medications, and many will die. What did YOU think would happen? Business as usual? As Obama says, this bill is mean. It takes money from the middle class and the poorest people and redistributes it to the rich. Call it the inverse of the Robin Hood effect.


----------



## Macfury

Obama is incorrect. See the CBO report before you open your yap.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's not my case. Do you think you could do a better job of inferencing? 23 million people will lose their health care. Many of them will be bankrupt, lose their medications, and many will die. What did YOU think would happen? Business as usual? As Obama says, this bill is mean. It takes money from the middle class and the poorest people and redistributes it to the rich. Call it the inverse of the Robin Hood effect.


----------



## Macfury

Rush Limbaugh made a good point about the 23 million who will "lose" their healthcare:



> This is akin to saying that a thousand prisoners who escape are now homeless. Do you think the prisoners care? They just got out of prison, they just escaped but we’re gonna call ’em homeless because they’re not in prison anymore. In the case of 22 million people losing their health insurance, you cannot forget the context. Obamacare forces, it compels, it mandates that people buy insurance or else...
> 
> Now, for a lot of people it’s insurance that they can’t afford. Not only can they not afford to buy it, they can’t afford to use it because the deductibles are so high. So what good is it? If 22 million people had health insurance that’s out of reach and yet they’ve been forced to buy it, what good is it? If people, therefore, under the Senate bill are no longer forced to pay for insurance that they don’t need, or if they’re no longer forced to buy insurance they can’t afford, they will escape.
> 
> A thousand prisoners escape prison, we call ’em homeless. Twenty-two million people escape the evil, punitive clutches of Obamacare, and we call them dead?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Rush Limbaugh made a good point about the 23 million who will "lose" their healthcare:


I agree with you (and Rush). Obamacare had a huge gaping hole just for that reason; and the Republican plan will be even worse.

So the only logical thing to do is to scrap both plans, and institute a single-payer, federal health care system funded by taxpayer dollars, which uses economies of scale to drive down costs of drug purchases and other costs.

It's the only logical thing to do.


----------



## eMacMan

I would consider Barf Limburger to be every bit as reliable a resource as Obama. The truth lies somewhere in between.

A sizeable chunk of the middle class saw exorbitant increases in the cost of health insurance combined with a big increase in deductibles. The Insurance companies got fat under this regime. Just because the middle class are no longer forced to buy health care, do not expect those rates and coverages to revert to pre-Obamacare levels. They won't.

Neither Republirats or Demorats give a rat's ass about the poor. This was always about lining the pockets of the Insurance providers. It was so under BO and that will continue under the combover.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> I agree with you (and Rush). Obamacare had a huge gaping hole just for that reason; and the Republican plan will be even worse.
> 
> So the only logical thing to do is to scrap both plans, and institute a single-payer, federal health care system funded by taxpayer dollars, which uses economies of scale to drive down costs of drug purchases and other costs.
> 
> It's the only logical thing to do.


Unfortunately the US can afford only one of decent affordable health care or continuing to engorge the MIC. Trump has already given his oath of loyalty to the MIC.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obama is incorrect. See the CBO report before you open your yap.




Rude.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I would consider Barf Limburger to be every bit as reliable a resource as Obama. The truth lies somewhere in between.
> 
> A sizeable chunk of the middle class saw exorbitant increases in the cost of health insurance combined with a big increase in deductibles. The Insurance companies got fat under this regime. Just because the middle class are no longer forced to buy health care, do not expect those rates and coverages to revert to pre-Obamacare levels. They won't.
> 
> Neither Republirats or Demorats give a rat's ass about the poor. This was always about lining the pockets of the Insurance providers. It was so under BO and that will continue under the combover.




Under the combover? You don't want to know what's under the combover.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Rude.


Says the guy who calls people "assholes." You'll need to develop a better reputation before you can engage in that sort of game without being laughed off the forum.


----------



## Macfury

Not at all!



CubaMark said:


> I agree with you (and Rush). Obamacare had a huge gaping hole just for that reason; and the Republican plan will be even worse.
> 
> So the only logical thing to do is to scrap both plans, and institute a single-payer, federal health care system funded by taxpayer dollars, which uses economies of scale to drive down costs of drug purchases and other costs.
> 
> It's the only logical thing to do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Says the guy who calls people "assholes." You'll need to develop a better reputation before you can engage in that sort of game without being laughed off the forum.




Laughed at by whom? You and FeXL? Your opinion means nothing to me. And you like to "open your yap" all the time, without offering anything of your own. At least FeXL offers things to consider. You only react to other's contributions.


----------



## Macfury

Dazzling footwork Freddie--keep those sassy one-liners coming!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Laughed at by whom? You and FeXL? Your opinion means nothing to me. And you like to "open your yap" all the time, without offering anything of your own. At least FeXL offers things to consider. You only react to other's contributions.


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> There are at least 3, maybe as many as 5, ideologues on these boards.


This is an important point (I'm not confirming numbers ). There are many "light" ideologues who are unaware of how ideological they are. 

When confronted with this, after a little back and forth, their backup argument will be that everyone is ideological. 

They are projecting.

Something to keep in mind when having raucous political debates. Ideologues are interesting and sometimes have good ideas, but their reasoning is severely compromised. Not in the way everyone is biased (which they use as an argument), but in the way that a paid propagandist is different from someone venting their thoughts at your local pub.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Says the guy who calls people "assholes." You'll need to develop a better reputation before you can engage in that sort of game without being laughed off the forum.


Interesting how filthy language and personal insults are only decried when they are directed against FeXL (who is a chronic instigator) and not Freddie_Biff, myself and pm-r, who tend to react out of frustration at FeXL's baiting and abuse.

I'm quite content with my general level of decorum, which is a word I could never apply to FeXL's behaviour in this forum.


----------



## Dr.G.

As one of the few Americans who still vote in the US and who post in this thread, I am waiting for the postings to be less personal/vindictive/childish/rude/etc ............. and then hopefully getting back to factual and reasonable discussions about American politics. We shall see.

Happy Canada Day ............... and a happy pre- 4th of July for any other dual citizens out there in ehMacLand. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Interesting how filthy language and personal insults are only decried when they are directed against FeXL (who is a chronic instigator) and not Freddie_Biff, myself and pm-r, who tend to react out of frustration at FeXL's baiting and abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite content with my general level of decorum, which is a word I could never apply to FeXL's behaviour in this forum.



Well said, my learned friend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> As one of the few Americans who still vote in the US and who post in this thread, I am waiting for the postings to be less personal/vindictive/childish/rude/etc ............. and then hopefully getting back to factual and reasonable discussions about American politics. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Canada Day ............... and a happy pre- 4th of July for any other dual citizens out there in ehMacLand. Paix, mes amis.




And a Happy Canada Day and 4th of July to you as well! 

As to your comment, it is difficult when discussing 45 not to get personal, vindictive, childish or rude since these are the very qualities he personifies. Even many Republicans are shocked at his latest tweets about Mika. The man knows no boundaries.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> And a Happy Canada Day and 4th of July to you as well!
> 
> As to your comment, it is difficult when discussing 45 not to get personal, vindictive, childish or rude since these are the very qualities he personifies. Even many Republicans are shocked at his latest tweets about Mika. The man knows no boundaries.


And to you as well, Frank. 

As for Pres. Trump, get "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" towards him, just not towards the office of the presidency. As well, try not to get "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" towards others in this thread, and maybe others will follow suit and the discussions will be heated just not "personal, vindictive, childish or rude". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Thank you, Captain Sanctimony!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well said, my learned friend.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL doesn't criticize foul language itself. I'm only slamming hypocrisy. Freddie gushes invective from both ends and then pretends to be the president of the Edmonton Decency Link six seconds later. 

In terms of foul language, I'm a piker. I'm sure you're quite content with your level of decorum, but I would consider it well over the line. I would prefer people don't use a lot of the words used here, but freedom of expression is more important than my preferences.



CubaMark said:


> Interesting how filthy language and personal insults are only decried when they are directed against FeXL (who is a chronic instigator) and not Freddie_Biff, myself and pm-r, who tend to react out of frustration at FeXL's baiting and abuse.
> 
> I'm quite content with my general level of decorum, which is a word I could never apply to FeXL's behaviour in this forum.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> And to you as well, Frank.
> 
> 
> 
> As for Pres. Trump, get "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" towards him, just not towards the office of the presidency. As well, try not to get "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" towards others in this thread, and maybe others will follow suit and the discussions will be heated just not "personal, vindictive, childish or rude". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.



Indeed we shall. Here's another Time magazine cover. I swear it's real.


----------



## Rps

I would like to make a casual observation before I leave the thread. Years ago I was involved in public speaking and debate. One of the hard and fast rules was to attack the logic and not the person . It seems that that point has been missed in many threads on ehMac lately. It is okay to disagree with someone. In fact, I probably disagree with much of what is posted here, what I don't think I do is attack the poster. I also allow that a poster is entitled to their opinion...and those opinions are what keeps this community active and vibrant. Constant personal attacks do not.

Neither do confirming posts on good behaviour that are really a hidden sword! If we want to learn and grow together we need to respect others opinions without the editorial comments on the individual. With that said, I shall leave you....while I have not been a major contributor I have attended. I know I won't be missed, but you do not want me to be "a one of many". I fear you going in that direction.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> FeXL doesn't criticize foul language itself. I'm only slamming hypocrisy. Freddie gushes invective from both ends and then pretends to be the president of the Edmonton Decency Link six seconds later.
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of foul language, I'm a piker. I'm sure you're quite content with your level of decorum, but I would consider it well over the line. I would prefer people don't use a lot of the words used here, but freedom of expression is more important than my preferences.




Hey Dr G, as I appear to be Captain Sanctimony who gushes invective from both ends and then pretend to be the president of the Edmonton Decency Link six seconds later, is this the kind of "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" comment I should not be responding to? I think you may be offering suggestions to the wrong guy.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I would like to make a casual observation before I leave the thread. Years ago I was involved in public speaking and debate. One of the hard and fast rules was to attack the logic and not the person . It seems that that point has been missed in many threads on ehMac lately. It is okay to disagree with someone. In fact, I probably disagree with much of what is posted here, what I don't think I do is attack the poster. I also allow that a poster is entitled to their opinion...and those opinions are what keeps this community active and vibrant. Constant personal attacks do not.
> 
> Neither do confirming posts on good behaviour that are really a hidden sword! If we want to learn and grow together we need to respect others opinions without the editorial comments on the individual. With that said, I shall leave you....while I have not been a major contributor I have attended. I know I won't be missed, but you do not want me to be "a one of many". I fear you going in that direction.


Excellent points, mon ami. You shall be missed. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Dr G, as I appear to be Captain Sanctimony who gushes invective from both ends and then pretend to be the president of the Edmonton Decency Link six seconds later, is this the kind of "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" comment I should not be responding to? I think you may be offering suggestions to the wrong guy.


I think you should not respond to it. But why ask, since you already have?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Dr G, as I appear to be Captain Sanctimony who gushes invective from both ends and then pretend to be the president of the Edmonton Decency Link six seconds later, is this the kind of "personal, vindictive, childish or rude" comment I should not be responding to? I think you may be offering suggestions to the wrong guy.


The comment was not meant just for you. Still, if you take the high road, and refuse to go low, then maybe, just maybe, others will follow your positive example. 

So, we have just lost Rp from this thread. Personally, I post infrequently here since there are more personal jabs than actual discussions about the American political situation.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The comment was not meant just for you. Still, if you take the high road, and refuse to go low, then maybe, just maybe, others will follow your positive example.
> 
> 
> 
> So, we have just lost Rp from this thread. Personally, I post infrequently here since there are more personal jabs than actual discussions about the American political situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.




With all due respect, I don't think we lose anybody from any thread. We're all adults, even if we don't all act that way. We make choices. I would love to actually discuss politics. I do it with others on other forums. This thread is unfortunately dominated by two right-minded zealots who want to control the discussion, which is unfortunate. 

Currently, I am amazed at how anyone can defend 45's comments about how he told a "bleeding from a face lift" Mika Berzezinski he had no room at the inn for her in December. The tweets about it from 45 are incredibly mean-spirited. I simply cannot understand how anyone can rationalize that a man so easily triggered should be in charge of the US nuclear arsenal. One day he'll up the ante and it will be personal, and people will die as a result.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I would love to actually discuss politics. I do it with others on other forums.


You don't discuss politics. You make pronouncements, You don't do even fundamental research and don't try to develop a working knowledge of the issues on which you make your pronouncements. But you're free to continue doing that. Nobody is stopping you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> This thread is unfortunately dominated by two right-minded zealots who want to control the discussion, which is unfortunate.


And there's the blame and sanctimony. Good thing you're above that!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> With all due respect, I don't think we lose anybody from any thread. We're all adults, even if we don't all act that way. We make choices. I would love to actually discuss politics. I do it with others on other forums. This thread is unfortunately dominated by two right-minded zealots who want to control the discussion, which is unfortunate.
> 
> Currently, I am amazed at how anyone can defend 45's comments about how he told a "bleeding from a face lift" Mika Berzezinski he had no room at the inn for her in December. The tweets about it from 45 are incredibly mean-spirited. I simply cannot understand how anyone can rationalize that a man so easily triggered should be in charge of the US nuclear arsenal. One day he'll up the ante and it will be personal, and people will die as a result.


I agree with you here, Frank. Pres. Trump's tweets about Mika B and Morning Joe were beneath the office of the presidency. There is so many things domestic and foreign for which he needs to focus so as to make reasonable and rational decisions, and this is what he is concentrating upon the last few days. It is almost an obsession with him since he was elected. Very sad indeed.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Despite Freddie's erroneous statement, nobody here thought the tweet was a good Idea. 

Obamacare needs to be dismantled and there's a wall to build.



Dr.G. said:


> I agree with you here, Frank. Pres. Trump's tweets about Mika B and Morning Joe were beneath the office of the presidency. There is so many things domestic and foreign for which he needs to focus so as to make reasonable and rational decisions, and this is what he is concentrating upon the last few days. It is almost an obsession with him since he was elected. Very sad indeed.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I agree with you here, Frank. Pres. Trump's tweets about Mika B and Morning Joe were beneath the office of the presidency. There is so many things domestic and foreign for which he needs to focus so as to make reasonable and rational decisions, and this is what he is concentrating upon the last few days. It is almost an obsession with him since he was elected. Very sad indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.




And as always, there's two sides to every story.









http://www.distractify.com/politics...2&tse_id=INF_b52954305e8711e790011d41b85aaeb5


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't discuss politics. You make pronouncements, You don't do even fundamental research and don't try to develop a working knowledge of the issues on which you make your pronouncements. But you're free to continue doing that. Nobody is stopping you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's the blame and sanctimony. Good thing you're above that!



You know, Macfury, if you could just stop taking about ME for a few days or even a week, that would be a huge improvement. I don't really talk about you unless I'm defending myself against your jabs. Come on, you're a smart one. Offer something more often instead of just reacting.


----------



## Macfury

Glad that "Distractify" brought us the straight goods!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Despite Freddie's erroneous statement, nobody here thought the tweet was a good Idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Obamacare needs to be dismantled and there's a wall to build.




Why is building the wall a good idea? You know that it can be defeated with a simple ladder, right? You've seen the video with Vicente Fox?


----------



## Macfury

You're the Justin Bieber of EhMac!

Seriously, stop posting so much ill-founded nonsense and I will be able to focus on more new material! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know, Macfury, if you could just stop taking about ME for a few days or even a week, that would be a huge improvement. I don't really talk about you unless I'm defending myself against your jabs. Come on, you're a smart one. Offer something more often instead of just reacting.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is building the wall a good idea? You know that it can be defeated with a simple ladder, right? You've seen the video with Vicente Fox?


Vicente drew a picture of a ladder. His picture of a ladder did not surmount the wall.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Despite Freddie's erroneous statement, nobody here thought the tweet was a good Idea.
> 
> Obamacare needs to be dismantled and there's a wall to build.


Parts of Obamacare needs to be adjusted and parts kept. Trumpcare will be a disaster for millions.

The Wall, however, is a boondoggle. According to Fox News, the owner of Home Depot, however, supports it and wants to put HD ads all along the US side of the wall.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. G., you never met a transfer of wealth to welfare programs you didn't like. Always predictable.



Dr.G. said:


> Parts of Obamacare needs to be adjusted and parts kept. Trumpcare will be a disaster for millions.
> 
> The Wall, however, is a boondoggle. According to Fox News, the owner of Home Depot, however, supports it and wants to put HD ads all along the US side of the wall.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're the Justin Bieber of EhMac!
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, stop posting so much ill-founded nonsense and I will be able to focus on more new material!




Again....perhaps you should start with the positive and post something new. You are not required to comment on everything I post. Try ignoring me for a DAY and see how that goes. We're going to help get you over this addiction, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Parts of Obamacare needs to be adjusted and parts kept. Trumpcare will be a disaster for millions.
> 
> 
> 
> The Wall, however, is a boondoggle. According to Fox News, the owner of Home Depot, however, supports it and wants to put HD ads all along the US side of the wall.




Solar powered too. Guess what else Home Depot sells lots of? Ladders.


----------



## CubaMark

*There's dumb, there's stupid, and then... there's Trump.*

*Trump just made a humiliating economic error in front of South Korea’s president*










President Trump just used a White House meeting with South Korean President Moon Jae-in to complain about the US–South Korean trade deficit, a perennial Trump talking point. The problem is that what he said isn’t true.

Here’s what Trump said while sitting across the table from Moon, who was elected in May after a scandal led to the arrest of his predecessor:

_The United States has trade deficits with many, many countries, and we cannot allow that to continue ... with South Korea right now, but we cannot allow that to continue. This is really a statement that I make about all trade: For many, many years the United States has suffered through massive trade deficits; that’s why we have $20 trillion in debt._​The president’s distaste for trade deficits with any country is not news, but that last sentence is striking — Trump is claiming that trade deficits are at the root of the national debt.

(Vox)​


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Dr. G., you never met a transfer of wealth to welfare programs you didn't like. Always predictable.


Well, I am true to my New Deal/Great Society roots .............. and I say that with pride. I grew up very poor so I know what it is like to go without food and needed medical services. That was one of the reasons why I supported Bernie Sanders from the start. How things would be so much better in America today if he was president. Such is Life.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Solar powered too. Guess what else Home Depot sells lots of? Ladders.


I heard about the option of solar panels, but I did not think that Pres. Trump would want to support solar energy.

As for the ladders ............................ :lmao::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Vox? They're perennially error-ridden. Why not look at it yourself? If The US has a massive trade deficit with another country, then eliminating that trade deficit will involve greater US production, capital investment, hiring, transportation. This increases government revenue through taxation and reduces cumulative deficits. Why is that so difficult to understand?




CubaMark said:


> *There's dumb, there's stupid, and then... there's Trump.*
> 
> President Trump just used a White House meeting with South Korean President Moon Jae-in to complain about the US–South Korean trade deficit, a perennial Trump talking point. The problem is that what he said isn’t true.
> 
> Here’s what Trump said while sitting across the table from Moon, who was elected in May after a scandal led to the arrest of his predecessor:
> 
> _The United States has trade deficits with many, many countries, and we cannot allow that to continue ... with South Korea right now, but we cannot allow that to continue. This is really a statement that I make about all trade: For many, many years the United States has suffered through massive trade deficits; that’s why we have $20 trillion in debt._​The president’s distaste for trade deficits with any country is not news, but that last sentence is striking — Trump is claiming that trade deficits are at the root of the national debt.
> 
> (Vox)​


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...te-violence-against-cnn-with-tweet/?tid=sm_fb

Well, this is one way to "bring down" CNN.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump adds wrestling meme to 'fake news' war on media - World - CBC News


I remember in preschool my son was always told "Use your words and not your hands when you are angry." I have to admit that I first thought that this was a belated father's day gift/joke created by his son, Baron. Guess I am the fool for thinking that this sort of nonsense is above the office of the presidency. He may see himself as a master strategist, but in reality he is a fool enabled by money and privilege.


----------



## Macfury

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who pulls America out of the Paris Accord and kills the individual mandate of Obamacare has earned the right to act like a goof.

Hope there's more to come.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> As far as I'm concerned, anybody who pulls America out of the Paris Accord and kills the individual mandate of Obamacare has earned the right to act like a goof.
> 
> Hope there's more to come.


Keep in mind that he is the President of the United States and NOT the Commander in Chief Clown of the US.

God only knows what "more" there is to come. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

If pursuing Trump's agenda means I have to watch the clowning, so be it. 

At least I no longer feel the malaise of an America made small and impotent that existed under Obama. Such a relief!



Dr.G. said:


> Keep in mind that he is the President of the United States and NOT the Commander in Chief Clown of the US.
> 
> God only knows what "more" there is to come. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If pursuing Trump's agenda means I have to watch the clowning, so be it.
> 
> At least I no longer feel the malaise of an America made small and impotent that existed under Obama. Such a relief!


Well, let's agree to disagree, mon ami. Too bad that Red Skelton was not still alive and willing to run for president. Then we could have a true and professional clown who would not demean anyone. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Today's Democrats would choke on Red's famous speech regarding the Pledge of Allegiance.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Today's Democrats would choke on Red's famous speech regarding the Pledge of Allegiance.


You are wrong here, mon ami. Most Democrats would applaud his rendition of the Pledge, just as much as most Americans. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> You are wrong here, mon ami. Most Democrats would applaud his rendition of the Pledge, just as much as most Americans.


Red noted specifically that America must recognize that it was founded on belief in God. Democrats have worked very hard to erase that connection.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Red noted specifically that America must recognize that it was founded on belief in God. Democrats have worked very hard to erase that connection.


Once again, you are wrong. Democrats and Republicans have worked hard over the years to make sure that freedom of religion is protected, and that there is a separation between religion and the state.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Once again, you are wrong. Democrats and Republicans have worked hard over the years to make sure that freedom of religion is protected, and that there is a separation between religion and the state.


These issues are not related to the founding of a nation under God.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> These issues are not related to the founding of a nation under God.


Calling it a night, mon ami. Chat with you tomorrow. Paix.

Amendment 1
Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Man Who Wrote the Pledge of Allegiance | History | Smithsonian


----------



## Macfury

> Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.


_John Adams_


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Calling it a night, mon ami. Chat with you tomorrow. Paix.
> 
> 
> 
> Amendment 1
> 
> Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press
> 
> 
> 
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
> 
> 
> 
> "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
> 
> 
> 
> The Man Who Wrote the Pledge of Allegiance | History | Smithsonian




Funny how so many interpretations can come out of one document that you'd would be clear and straightforward.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny how so many interpretations can come out of one document that you'd would be clear and straightforward.


Which document do you mean?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Which document do you mean?




Well , one is a document, the other is a verbal oath I suppose. I refer to the Constitution as the document, Amendmnet 1 (that Marc just referenced) and the oath as the verbal thing. I didn't know the "under God" part wasn't added until much later. In any event, there's a lot of interpretation that comes about from both sets of words.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well , one is a document, the other is a verbal oath I suppose. I refer to the Constitution as the document, Amendmnet 1 (that Marc just referenced) and the oath as the verbal thing. I didn't know the "under God" part wasn't added until much later. In any event, there's a lot of interpretation that comes about from both sets of words.


Valid points, Frank. As well, "In God We Trust", which is now official motto of the United States was not adopted as the nation's motto until 1956. It was selected as an alternative replacement to the unofficial motto of "E pluribus Unum" ("out of many, one"), which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.

When the change to the Pledge came about I was in K. We started off grade one learning the new Pledge which added "one nation under God" to the pledge.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Valid points, Frank. As well, "In God We Trust", which is now official motto of the United States was not adopted as the nation's motto until 1956. It was selected as an alternative replacement to the unofficial motto of "E pluribus Unum" ("out of many, one"), which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.
> 
> 
> 
> When the change to the Pledge came about I was in K. We started off grade one learning the new Pledge which added "one nation under God" to the pledge.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.



So much for separation of church and state, eh!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

I don't know about the logistics of this approach but it sounds better to me than _any_ version of Obamacare Lite.

‘Repeal First, Replace Later’ Gains Steam with Senate Conservatives



> Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) ripped the stalled health care bill GOP leadership had put forward, during an interview that aired on Fox News’ “Fox News Sunday,” saying the legislation in its current state “is just being lit up like a Christmas tree full of billion-dollar ornaments, and it’s not repeal.”


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well , one is a document, the other is a verbal oath I suppose. I refer to the Constitution as the document, Amendmnet 1 (that Marc just referenced) and the oath as the verbal thing. I didn't know the "under God" part wasn't added until much later. In any event, there's a lot of interpretation that comes about from both sets of words.


Most of the confusion comes from people who serve the notion of socialism or communism. They pinch the words until they scream. I have never found the meanings of most of the phrasing in these documents to be challenging.

However, none of this makes a difference in light of the belief of the founding fathers that the Constitution will cease to be effective with a country that does not believe in God.

The Declaration of Independence states:



> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.


They are inalienable BECAUSE they are endowed by the Creator. Again, the Democrats have attempted to prove to the people that all rights flow from government. 



> So much for separation of church and state, eh!


You make a huge error. The "Separation of church and state" only limits the federal government from adopting an official state religion. Nothing else.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I don't know about the logistics of this approach but it sounds better to me than _any_ version of Obamacare Lite.
> 
> ‘Repeal First, Replace Later’ Gains Steam with Senate Conservatives


Wahhhh! If saving a billion dollars means even one American is inconvenienced, better to wade deeper into the socialist morass.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hamill, blah, blah...


Trump's tax returns musty be lying underneath that stack of Obama's university transcripts!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Most of the confusion comes from people who serve the notion of socialism or communism. They pinch the words until they scream. I have never found the meanings of most of the phrasing in these documents to be challenging.
> 
> 
> 
> However, none of this makes a difference in light of the belief of the founding fathers that the Constitution will cease to be effective with a country that does not believe in God.
> 
> 
> 
> The Declaration of Independence states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are inalienable BECAUSE they are endowed by the Creator. Again, the Democrats have attempted to prove to the people that all rights flow from government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You make a huge error. The "Separation of church and state" only limits the federal government from adopting an official state religion. Nothing else.




The "creator" is certainly not synonymous with only one version of God. For many Nature works just fine as Creator. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump's tax returns musty be lying underneath that stack of Obama's university transcripts!




That blah blah part is not exactly the mature way to quote someone. What exactly do you perceive to be wrong with Obama's university transcripts?


----------



## CubaMark

I thought about putting this into the Religious thread, but given that it references Trump specifically and the election, perhaps it fits best here.

An interesting and honest perspective on being muslim in rural USA today.

*‘Love Thy Neighbor?’* (Washington Post)


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> That blah blah part is not exactly the mature way to quote someone. What exactly do you perceive to be wrong with Obama's university transcripts?


Who knows. They were sealed by Obama who refused to release them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who knows. They were sealed by Obama who refused to release them.



Does he have to release them? Is that customary? The only documents that Presidential candidates typically release are their tax returns, which both he and Bill's wife did. In fact, as I understand it, there's only one presidential candidate in the past 40 years who hasn't.


----------



## Macfury

Nobody has to release anything, including Trump. However, convention dictates the release of school transcripts. I don't really care one way or another, but why focus on only on Trump--where are Obama's school records?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Does he have to release them? Is that customary? The only documents that Presidential candidates typically release are their tax returns, which both he and Bill's wife did. In fact, as I understand it, there's only one presidential candidate in the past 40 years who hasn't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nobody has to release anything, including Trump. However, convention dictates the release of school transcripts. I don't really care one way or another, but why focus on only on Trump--where are Obama's school records?




I don't really care about Trump's or Obama's school records. But I would like to see Trump's tax returns. What is he afraid of revealing?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Now here's the REAL news.


----------



## Macfury

I simply don't care about any of these documents and I don't share the same Prog obsession with successful people.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't really care about Trump's or Obama's school records. But I would like to see Trump's tax returns. What is he afraid of revealing?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I simply don't care about any of these documents and I don't share the same Prog obsession with successful people.


I don't get people wanting to see anyone's tax return, let alone Trump. Exactly what major difference would it make in their lives to know just how much money he has? They already know he is a billionaire. How could knowing if it had, say one or three billion change anything?


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> I don't get people wanting to see anyone's tax return, let alone Trump. Exactly what major difference would it make in their lives to know just how much money he has? They already know he is a billionaire. How could knowing if it had, say one or three billion change anything?


I think people hope they find some illegal things he has done to get out of paying taxes.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I think people hope they find some illegal things he has done to get out of paying taxes.


This is the _only_ reason they want to see it. Even if they found nothing they would try to build a scandal around it. President Obama has been accused of not actually having completed university course requirements, and his response was to lock the records. There were no demands from progs or Democrats to see those records, because it wouldn't have advanced their political agenda.


----------



## SINC

wonderings said:


> I think people hope they find some illegal things he has done to get out of paying taxes.





Macfury said:


> This is the _only_ reason they want to see it. Even if they found nothing they would try to build a scandal around it.


Well, that may be but I very much doubt the IRS allows anyone to file a tax return using an 'illegal thing'. Like Revenue Canada, I suspect the IRS are rather sticky about that and any tax return would be legally compliant with the tax act, so again I ask, what is the point?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is the _only_ reason they want to see it. Even if they found nothing they would try to build a scandal around it. President Obama has been accused of not actually having completed university course requirements, and his response was to lock the records. There were no demands from progs or Democrats to see those records, because it wouldn't have advanced their political agenda.




How would he have earned his degree if he hadn't completed course requirements? Sense: this comment makes no. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, that may be but I very much doubt the IRS allows anyone to file a tax return using an 'illegal thing'. Like Revenue Canada, I suspect the IRS are rather sticky about that and any tax return would be legally compliant with the tax act, so again I ask, what is the point?




We do know that he has at least four bankruptcies to his name. If he's a billionaire, that's awful lot of money to gain and lose. Four times. In any event, he SAID he would release his tax returns when the audit is finished. I suspect there never was any audit.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> We do know that he has at least four bankruptcies to his name. If he's a billionaire, that's awful lot of money to gain and lose. Four times. In any event, he SAID he would release his tax returns when the audit is finished. I suspect there never was any audit.


I am really trying to understand this desire on your part, as well as others. 

Exactly what earth shattering experience would change your life so dramatically that this information would be that important for you to know? 

Do you really think the IRS allows Trump not to follow US tax laws and file returns that contain illegal deductions for example?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....President Obama has been accused of not actually having completed university course requirements, and his response was to lock the records.....


From what I understand, Obama did not "lock" the records: they are confidential by default, as were George W. Bush's and other Presidents' documents: FactCheck.org

This appears to be just another one of the right-wingnut campaigns (à la secret Kenya birth) designed to diminish the character of the person targeted.


----------



## Macfury

It makes a very perverse type of sense.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How would he have earned his degree if he hadn't completed course requirements? Sense: this comment makes no.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> From what I understand, Obama did not "lock" the records: they are confidential by default, as were George W. Bush's and other Presidents' documents: FactCheck.org


I didn't say that the court sealed them. Factcheck.org is a decidedly left-wing fact checking site, so I wouldn't rely too much on its objectivity.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I didn't say that the court sealed them. Factcheck.org is a decidedly left-wing fact checking site, so I wouldn't rely too much on its objectivity.


Fine. Give your source that shows how Obama has "locked" the records to which you refer. What is the basis for your claim, and how does Obama's case differ than that of any other President / citizen of the USA?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> From what I understand, Obama did not "lock" the records: they are confidential by default, as were George W. Bush's and other Presidents' documents: FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> This appears to be just another one of the right-wingnut campaigns (à la secret Kenya birth) designed to diminish the character of the person targeted.




As opposed to every presidential candidate for the past forty years agreeing to the non-binding convention of releasing their tax returns to demonstrate that they have no conflict of interest, unlike 45.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It makes a very perverse type of sense.



No, no it doesn't. If he hadn't completed the courses, he wouldn't have a degree. Why don't you post your University transcripts here on this forum if you think everyone should be able to see them?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, no it doesn't. If he hadn't completed the courses, he wouldn't have a degree. Why don't you post your University transcripts here on this forum if you think everyone should be able to see them?


Some people are given a degree, despite not completing a course. Football players for example. Maybe Obama is hiding something if he doesn't want people to see them.

However, I don't care about Obama's transcripts any more than I care about Trump's tax returns. To be obsessed with his tax returns strikes me as somewhat bizarre.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Some people are given a degree, despite not completing a course. Football players for example. Maybe Obama is hiding something if he doesn't want people to see them.


Why is he "hiding something"? What has he intentionally done? What actions has he taken, apart from _sit back_ as his records are covered under the same privacy laws that affect every other US citizen? It's like asking someone to prove a negative. It makes no sense.

You are making the allegation now that he may have just been "given" his degree. On what do you base the allegation?



Macfury said:


> However, I don't care about Obama's transcripts any more than I care about Trump's tax returns. To be obsessed with his tax returns strikes me as somewhat bizarre.


It's a Presidential tradition, undertaken as one effort to inspire confidence and promote transparency, that the Donald is intentionally not following. His refusal to do so generates suspicion that he has something to hide. To borrow your phrase, "Maybe Obama *Trump* is hiding something if he doesn't want people to see them."


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You are making the allegation now that he may have just been "given" his degree. On what do you base the allegation?


On the same basis that Trump is "hiding something" in his tax returns.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> On the same basis that Trump is "hiding something" in his tax returns.



That's a pretty weak argument. It's a knee-jerk reaction based on the fact that someone is picking on your boy 45.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well that's gotta sting. Mind you, true libertarians should be applauding. 










https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetw...mmissions-demand-for-voter-info/#55019c0b4458


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> That's a pretty weak argument.


If it's good for 45, it's good for 44.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that's gotta sting. Mind you, true libertarians should be applauding. https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetw...mmissions-demand-for-voter-info/#55019c0b4458


Voter ID should be mandatory and that will solve the problem.


----------



## CubaMark

*Another knock to the Buffoon-in-Chief....*

*In stunning defeat, EPA ordered to proceed with emissions rule*

...a federal court reversed a move by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to suspend an Obama-era rule on methane emissions, concluding the EPA did not have the authority to suspend the rule.

In a two-to-one decision, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled on Monday that the EPA cannot suspend the 2016 rule. The 31-page decision disagreed with EPA chief Scott Pruitt's contention that industry groups had not been given enough time to comment before the rule was issued, according to Inhabitat.

The court said Pruitt's claim over corporations not having an opportunity to comment was bogus. “The administrative record thus makes clear that industry groups had ample opportunity to comment on [all] issues on which EPA granted reconsideration, and indeed, that in several instances the agency incorporated those comments directly into the final rule,” the judges wrote. 

The court also said that Pruitt lacked the legal authority to delay the rule from taking effect. But it's not like he didn't try. It's no secret that Pruitt, a climate change skeptic, has been meeting with oil and gas company heads since taking over the agency, and in recent months, he has moved repeatedly to block or delay environmental regulations opposed by those companies.

(Digital Journal)​


----------



## Macfury

Are you really that naive, CM? These courts-of-appeals overturn rulings on command.This will be fixed by a constitutionalist-dominated Supreme Court and then made into law in Congress.

And you do know what _Digital Journal_ is, don't you?




CubaMark said:


> *Another knock to the Buffoon-in-Chief....*
> 
> *In stunning defeat, EPA ordered to proceed with emissions rule*
> 
> ...a federal court reversed a move by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to suspend an Obama-era rule on methane emissions, concluding the EPA did not have the authority to suspend the rule.
> 
> In a two-to-one decision, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled on Monday that the EPA cannot suspend the 2016 rule. The 31-page decision disagreed with EPA chief Scott Pruitt's contention that industry groups had not been given enough time to comment before the rule was issued, according to Inhabitat.
> 
> The court said Pruitt's claim over corporations not having an opportunity to comment was bogus. “The administrative record thus makes clear that industry groups had ample opportunity to comment on [all] issues on which EPA granted reconsideration, and indeed, that in several instances the agency incorporated those comments directly into the final rule,” the judges wrote.
> 
> The court also said that Pruitt lacked the legal authority to delay the rule from taking effect. But it's not like he didn't try. It's no secret that Pruitt, a climate change skeptic, has been meeting with oil and gas company heads since taking over the agency, and in recent months, he has moved repeatedly to block or delay environmental regulations opposed by those companies.
> 
> (Digital Journal)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Are you really that naive, CM? These courts-of-appeals overturn rulings on command.This will be fixed by a constitutionalist-dominated Supreme Court and then made into law in Congress.


What's naïve about posting this? A court made a ruling that goes against Trump's plans to destroy environmental protection in the USA. Just the facts, ma'am. If and when another court reverses that decision, maybe I'll be the one to post that news too. 



Macfury said:


> And you do know what _Digital Journal_ is, don't you?


Yup. Sorry, here, let me help you find another source that perhaps you're more agreeable to viewing:

The First Court Victory for Environmentalists Under Trump (The Atlantic)

Court rejects EPA's attempt to halt Obama-era methane rule (The Guardian)

Trump's EPA suffers court defeat on Obama methane rules (Washington Examiner)

Court Blocks E.P.A. Effort to Suspend Obama-Era Methane Rule (NY Times)

Court rejects Trump's delay of EPA drilling pollution rule (The Hill)


----------



## CubaMark

Anybody want to offer speculation as to how Trump missed that big, black vehicle that is almost always parked at the bottom of the stairs of Air Force One when a President arrives somewhere? :yikes: 


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y-0Q5-gMcI[/ame]

(I got a kick out of the "OH! Yeah! That thing over there!" (two-finger point, determined strut)

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

The facts do not bear out "a stunning defeat." It's just a delay tactic. Anyone left of centre can get some of these appeals courts to rule in their favour, so entirely predictable. The regulations do not protect the environment in any meaningful way.



CubaMark said:


> What's naïve about posting this? A court made a ruling that goes against Trump's plans to destroy environmental protection in the USA. Just the facts, ma'am.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> What's naïve about posting this? A court made a ruling that goes against Trump's plans to destroy environmental protection in the USA. Just the facts, ma'am. If and when another court reverses that decision, maybe I'll be the one to post that news too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Sorry, here, let me help you find another source that perhaps you're more agreeable to viewing:
> 
> 
> 
> The First Court Victory for Environmentalists Under Trump (The Atlantic)
> 
> 
> 
> Court rejects EPA's attempt to halt Obama-era methane rule (The Guardian)
> 
> 
> 
> Trump's EPA suffers court defeat on Obama methane rules (Washington Examiner)
> 
> 
> 
> Court Blocks E.P.A. Effort to Suspend Obama-Era Methane Rule (NY Times)
> 
> 
> 
> Court rejects Trump's delay of EPA drilling pollution rule (The Hill)




Bah! All snowflake mainstream media sources! We need Breitbart! We need Rebel Media! We need the "truth"!


----------



## Dr.G.

Betsy DeVos Heads to North Korea to Reverse Its Progress in Math and Science | The New Yorker

A brilliant bit of diplomacy on the part of Pres. Trump. Who needs "red lines" drawn when you have secret "weapons of math destruction" like her??? Next, he should send Jared K. to get them to dismantle their nuclear arms productions ............... then send Ivanka K. to set up a hand bag factory in North Korea ................. then send Eric and Donald Jr. over to set up fancy golf courses all over North Korea. Problem solved .............. and without a single shot fired.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Betsy DeVos Heads to North Korea to Reverse Its Progress in Math and Science | The New Yorker
> 
> 
> 
> A brilliant bit of diplomacy on the part of Pres. Trump. Who needs "red lines" drawn when you have secret "weapons of math destruction" like her??? Next, he should send Jared K. to get them to dismantle their nuclear arms productions ............... then send Ivanka K. to set up a hand bag factory in North Korea ................. then send Eric and Donald Jr. over to set up fancy golf courses all over North Korea. Problem solved .............. and without a single shot fired.



I would think if Eric and Donald Jr. are running the family business, they should not have any ties to any government business AT ALL. I think conflict of interest means nothing these days.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> I would think if Eric and Donald Jr. are running the family business, they should not have any ties to any government business AT ALL. I think conflict of interest means nothing these days.


_Meanwhile, in *real* Betsy DeVos news (isn't it sad that we have to actually identify it as such?)....
_
*Eighteen states sue Betsy DeVos for suspending rules on for-profit colleges*


Democratic attorneys general in 18 states and the District of Columbia on Thursday filed a lawsuit against Betsy DeVos, Donald Trump’s controversial choice for education secretary, over her decision to suspend rules meant to protect students from abuses by for-profit colleges.

Massachusetts attorney general Maura Healey, leading the lawsuit, said DeVos’s decision was “a betrayal of her office’s responsibility and a violation of federal law”.

The lawsuit was filed in federal court in Washington DC and demands implementation of borrower defense to repayment rules.

The rules were created under Barack Obama’s administration and were meant to take effect on 1 July. They aim to make schools financially responsible for fraud and forbid them from forcing students to resolve complaints outside court.
(The Guardian)​


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump proposes end to heating aid for low-income Americans*










The summer air is sizzling as the Fourth of July approaches, yet 86-year-old Richard Perkins already worries about how he's going to stay warm this winter.

President Donald Trump has proposed eliminating heating aid for low-income Americans, claiming it's no longer necessary and rife with fraud. People needn't worry about being left in the cold, he says, because utilities cannot cut off customers in the dead of winter.

But he is wrong on all counts.

The heating program provides a critical lifeline for people like Perkins, and officials close to the program don't see any widespread fraud. Guidelines for winter shutoffs by utilities vary from state to state and don't apply to heating oil, a key energy source in the bitter New England winter.

"It's beyond my thinking that anyone could be that cruel," said Perkins, a retired restaurateur who relies on the program to keep warm in Ogunquit, Maine.

** * **​
In Maine, the poorest state in New England, the program helped nearly 77,000 people over the past winter, and those numbers represented less than a quarter of eligible households, said Deborah Turcotte of MaineHousing, which helps to run the program.

** * **​
Mark Wolfe, of the National Energy Assistance Directors' Association, said that the Trump administration is relying on an old General Accounting Office report on the fraud claim, and that improvements have been made since then. In Maine, for example, only 100 cases - 0.3 percent of all submitted applications - are being investigated for potential fraud, according to MaineHousing.

And programs aimed at preventing utilities from being turned off wouldn't protect everyone. Utility regulations vary, with some states preventing shutoffs during the entire winter and others doing so only on exceptionally cold days.

And there's absolutely no requirement for heating oil and propane dealers, which are not regulated like electric and natural gas utilities, to make deliveries to customers who cannot pay. That's a big problem in the Northeast, which accounts for more than 80 percent of the nation's residential heating oil consumption.
(WCVB)​


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> President Donald Trump has proposed eliminating heating aid for low-income Americans, claiming it's no longer necessary and rife with fraud.


If they're talking about LIHEAP, it's worth noting that program is sometimes counted in the low quality estimates of "subsidies" to the fossil fuel industry.

Also, in a much colder but kinder land, what's our federal equivalent?

This strikes me as one of those fake left right issues that more reflects how much the U.S. federal government has overreached its mandate over the years. Not with one-off items during a time of perceived crisis, but with permanent intervention in areas that should be handled by the state/province. It makes accountability near impossible for voters.

There are a number of caustic topics in U.S. politics that are like this, but little acknowledgement that the problem is with federal involvement, not with who gets to score faith-based political points for a moment.


----------



## Macfury

Some people have never met a welfare handout they didn't like. Anything that moves the country incrementally toward Marxism.



Beej said:


> If they're talking about LIHEAP, it's worth noting that program is sometimes counted in the low quality estimates of "subsidies" to the fossil fuel industry.
> 
> Also, in a much colder but kinder land, what's our federal equivalent?
> 
> This strikes me as one of those fake left right issues that more reflects how much the U.S. federal government has overreached its mandate over the years. Not with one-off items during a time of perceived crisis, but with permanent intervention in areas that should be handled by the state/province. It makes accountability near impossible for voters.
> 
> There are a number of caustic topics in U.S. politics that are like this, but little acknowledgement that the problem is with federal involvement, not with who gets to score faith-based political points for a moment.


----------



## CubaMark

*The cover of TIME we're all waiting to see....*


----------



## Macfury

Hey, now that you've seen it, time to get over your bitter prog tears and support the president!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Hey, now that you've seen it, time to get over your bitter prog tears and support the president!


Um... I'm a *CANADIAN*. He's sure as hell not _*my*_ President. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey, now that you've seen it, time to get over your bitter prog tears and support the president!



Funny. I thought you were against fascism.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny. I thought you were against fascism.


Funny, Freddie, you never displayed even even a yeoman's knowledge about fascism.


----------



## Macfury

Not YOUR president. THE president.



CubaMark said:


> Um... I'm a *CANADIAN*. He's sure as hell not _*my*_ President.


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump confronted Putin on the issue of election hacking in their first meeting ................ Putin denied any hacking came from Russia .......... Pres. Trump accepted his denial.

So, what will Congress now do with all of their committee hearings? Will the various intelligence gathering agencies in the US be reprimanded for spreading "false news"?


----------



## Macfury

I'm sure you read the NSA report, which offered no evidence.



Dr.G. said:


> Pres. Trump confronted Putin on the issue of election hacking in their first meeting ................ Putin denied any hacking came from Russia .......... Pres. Trump accepted his denial.
> 
> So, what will Congress now do with all of their committee hearings? Will the various intelligence gathering agencies in the US be reprimanded for spreading "false news"?


----------



## Beej

If you want a snapshot of how much progressives have become socially conservative with their doctrine, consider their adulation for Linda Sarsour vs, back in the day, Bernardine Dohrn. Similar stupid "revolutionary" rhetoric, but you can see how far they have regressed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ws-conservative-wrath/?utm_term=.65332726582d

Not to mention their attacks on Maajid Nawaaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and many others.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I'm sure you read the NSA report, which offered no evidence.


Yes, and they too found evidence of Russian tampering. Still, if Putin says nothing of the sort happened, and Pres. Trump agrees with his view, case closed. Best that you folks stop bringing it up all the time now and let the Trump administration get on with their agenda. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, and they too found evidence of Russian tampering. Still, if Putin says nothing of the sort happened, and Pres. Trump agrees with his view, case closed. Best that you folks stop bringing it up all the time now and let the Trump administration get on with their agenda. Paix, mon ami.



Exactly. The "because I said so" defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Surprised? Probably not. 










http://www.distractify.com/trending...2&tse_id=INF_bb8cbb4063f111e790011d41b85aaeb5


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, and they too found evidence of Russian tampering.


You are simply wrong, Dr. G. The report contained no evidence, only insinuation. However, if you believe that to be the case, what as the evidence presented? Should be easy for you to look up.


----------



## Macfury

There are hundreds of Obamacare horror stories here on Facebook. The article must be mistaken. Did you actually check Freddie, or are you just repeating drivel?

https://www.facebook.com/IhateObamacare/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There are hundreds of Obamacare horror stories here on Facebook. The article must be mistaken. Did you actually check Freddie, or are you just repeating drivel?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/IhateObamacare/



I am posting an article for people to consider, Macfury. Sounds like you haven't given it much consideration at all, as usual, since it doesn't jibe with your world view.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> I am posting an article for people to consider, Macfury. Sounds like you haven't given it much consideration at all, as usual, since it doesn't jibe with your world view.


Yeah, from that totaly correct and always reliable news site, Facebook. Worst source on the web.


----------



## FeXL

First of all, you're making some brash assumptions here. You have no idea what his net worth was during any of those four bankruptcies.

Second, as I've asked before, if the IRS hasn't found any inconsistencies with his tax returns, just what do you expect John Q Public to suddenly discover?



Freddie_Biff said:


> We do know that he has at least four bankruptcies to his name. If he's a billionaire, that's awful lot of money to gain and lose. Four times.


----------



## CubaMark

*Straight from Donald's twitter account....*


----------



## Macfury

I considered it... and found it severely wanting. You didn't even check the Facebook thread to see if the story was remotely true. Call me old-fashioned, but I actually read a link before posting it here. It's only polite. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> I am posting an article for people to consider, Macfury. Sounds like you haven't given it much consideration at all, as usual, since it doesn't jibe with your world view.


----------



## Macfury

I love it. He's playing the MSM so hard that many of them will be having stress attacks by end of day.



CubaMark said:


> *Straight from Donald's twitter account....*


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

Poll: Majority of voters back Trump travel ban



> A clear majority of voters support President Donald Trump’s travel ban on visitors from six predominantly Muslim countries, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.


Related:

New Poll Finds Public Supports Restricting Travel From Majority-Muslim Countries



> So, what do Americans think about the travel ban as it now stands? A new poll from Politico/Morning Consult, released Wednesday, indicates that it’s a lot more popular than the mainstream media would have us believe. Six in ten Americans support restricting inbound travel to the United States from majority-Muslim countries.


----------



## FeXL

What are they afraid of? What are they attempting to hide? Questions, questions...

Dems File Emergency Lawsuit To Stop Trump From Protecting America’s Elections



> The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) has filed an emergency lawsuit to stop President Trump’s Commission on voter fraud investigation. The center has led a serious push for privacy in the Digital Age, but this move smacks of partisan politics.
> 
> In May, Trump issued an executive order establishing the commission. Its job is to “promote fair and honest elections.” However, that doesn’t bode well for democratic electorates. As many as two-thirds of U.S. states have baulked at the request sent out by Secretary of State Kris Kobach.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What are they afraid of? What are they attempting to hide? Questions, questions...
> 
> Dems File Emergency Lawsuit To Stop Trump From Protecting America’s Elections


They're afraid that the commission will result in the logical transition to voter ID. That will drain millions of votes from Democrat candidates.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They're afraid that the commission will result in the logical transition to voter ID. That will drain millions of votes from Democrat candidates.


Precisely. However, a bit difficult to defend & not look like the hypocrites they...

Oh...


----------



## FeXL

Further on *The Russkies!!!* 

Queen of Conspiracies Rachel Maddow: Someone Sent Me a Forged Document Claiming to Establish the Russian Collusion the Left is Crazy About So I'm Going to Blame a Right Wing False Flag Operation



> _Somebody, for some reason, appears to be shopping a fairly convincing fake NSA document that purports to directly implicate somebody from the Trump campaign in working with the Russians in their attack in the election,” Maddow said in a lengthy segment on her show. _​


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Further on *The Russkies!!!*
> 
> Queen of Conspiracies Rachel Maddow: Someone Sent Me a Forged Document Claiming to Establish the Russian Collusion the Left is Crazy About So I'm Going to Blame a Right Wing False Flag Operation


The Intercept responded.
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/07...ke-nsa-document-raises-several-key-questions/

Lengthy, but also worth reading to understand how mutable journalists' standards are when it comes to Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> The Intercept responded.


Good article. Damn those time stamps!!! beejacon


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Good article. Damn those time stamps!!! beejacon


Multiple exclamations are not appropriate when using the beejicon. The beejicon is an exclamation of immeasurable magnitude. Consider yourself reprimanded. 

Signed

The Tone Police


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Multiple exclamations are not appropriate when using the beejicon. The beejicon is an exclamation of immeasurable magnitude. Consider yourself reprimanded.
> 
> Signed
> 
> The Tone Police




<snort>

(hey, ya gotcher royalty...)


----------



## Macfury

You can't add anything to the beejicon or take anything away from it. 

It's always the beejicon.


beejacon


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You can't add anything to the beejicon or take anything away from it.
> 
> It's always the beejicon.
> 
> 
> beejacon


I am legend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> I am legend.




I have sympathy for you, Beej. Just as Mick requested.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I considered it... and found it severely wanting. You didn't even check the Facebook thread to see if the story was remotely true. Call me old-fashioned, but I actually read a link before posting it here. It's only polite.




I gave you a link. Perhaps you forgot to click it. I was not aware of said "Folks against Obamacare" FB page (and why should I be—these pages are a dime a dozen). What I did see was that any dissenting views would be removed (right there at the top), so I'd treat those opinions with caution in terms of how well they represent the whole. The feedback I posted came from the White House itself. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They're afraid that the commission will result in the logical transition to voter ID. That will drain millions of votes from Democrat candidates.



Why do you assume Democrats have an issue with voter ID? Wouldn't the more libertarian folks have a problem with gov't intrusion on their rights to privacy?


----------



## FeXL

It's not an assumption, it's a fact. Mentioned many times on these very boards.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you assume Democrats have an issue with voter ID?


You mean similar to a driver's license containing a photo? Pretty intrusive, all right. The left seems to think so, anyways...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wouldn't the more libertarian folks have a problem with gov't intrusion on their rights to privacy?


----------



## Macfury

Amazing that the White House responded to a web page from the Indiana State Republican Party. Will wonders never cease?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I gave you a link. Perhaps you forgot to click it. I was not aware of said "Folks against Obamacare" FB page (and why should I be—these pages are a dime a dozen). What I did see was that any dissenting views would be removed (right there at the top), so I'd treat those opinions with caution in terms of how well they represent the whole. The feedback I posted came from the White House itself. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you assume Democrats have an issue with voter ID? Wouldn't the more libertarian folks have a problem with gov't intrusion on their rights to privacy?


In this case ID protects my right to vote and makes sure that a citizen's vote is the only one counted--so no problem from libertarians.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Looking for love in all the wrong places.


----------



## SINC

Lemme see , , , you've never done this, right? Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttt!


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Lemme see , , , you've never done this, right? Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttt!


Guess he was looking for love where Freddie's heroes have mined deeply before:


----------



## FeXL

She's baaaaa-aaaaack!

Hillary Clinton looks for her role in midterms



> Hillary Clinton wants to play a role in next year’s midterm elections. It’s just not clear yet what that role will be.
> 
> Clinton has already launched a PAC aimed at helping congressional Democratic candidates in 2018, signaling the former first lady, senator and secretary of State is ready to help her party with fundraising.


I know! Why doesn't she reprise her role as Bill's Wife, hacking, coughing, stumbling, lying & losing?

Sounds perfect.

No, really. I can't think of a more fitting person to be helping out the DNC for midterms...


----------



## FeXL

All that winning!

+220,000 JOBS IN JUNE; RECORD 153,168,000 EMPLOYED



> The U.S. economy added 220,000 jobs in June, the best showing since February and well above analysts' expectations of 174,000.
> 
> The Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics also said the number of employed Americans -- which set records in February, March and April -- set another record in June, at 153,168,000 employed.
> 
> And the number of Americans not in the labor force -- after four straight monthly gains – dropped a bit to 94,813,000.


----------



## FeXL

A good start.

YOU’RE FIRED! Trump’s VA Terminates 500, Suspends 200 For Misconduct



> Five hundred and forty-eight Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) employees have been terminated since President Donald Trump took office, indicating that his campaign pledge to clean up “probably the most incompetently run agency in the United States” by relentlessly putting his TV catch phrase “you’re fired” into action was more than just empty rhetoric.
> 
> Another 200 VA workers were suspended and 33 demoted, according to data newly published by the department as part of VA Secretary David Shulkin’s commitment to greater transparency. Those disciplined include 22 senior leaders, more than 70 nurses, 14 police officers, and 25 physicians.


----------



## FeXL

Not the Russkies? :yikes:

New Research Shows Guccifer 2.0 Files Were Copied Locally, Not Hacked



> New meta-analysis has emerged from a document published today by an independent researcher known as The Forensicator, which suggests that files eventually published by the Guccifer 2.0 persona were likely initially downloaded by a person with physical access to a computer possibly connected to the internal DNC network. The individual most likely used a USB drive to copy the information. *The groundbreaking new analysis irrevocably destroys the Russian hacking narrative, and calls the actions of Crowdstrike and the DNC into question*


There go the narrative.

So, what is it with the left's obsession of blaming the Russkies for everything? This goes far beyond mere denial.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Guess he was looking for love where Freddie's heroes have mined deeply before:



Weak rebuttal, but I suppose you have to dig deep to find what you're looking for sometimes.









Ever feel like the guy at the party nobody wants to hang out with?


----------



## Macfury

Your original post was another weak failure. It took me eight seconds to find those images. You were too lazy to see if such images existed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Weak rebuttal, but I suppose you have to dig deep to find what you're looking for sometimes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your original post was another weak failure. It took me eight seconds to find those images. You were too lazy to see if such images existed.




Humour is something you simply don't get, Bob. The point isn't whether other famous people pick their nose, the point is that this guy is the ultimate loner in a room full of word leaders at the G-20 summit. Nobody wants to play with or sit beside poor little Donald, and being a nose picker is not his biggest weakness. I'm afraid you can't research your way into getting a sense of humour, and calling someone else lazy just underscores how out of touch you are. 

Yes, I'd seen those images, but they weren't relevant to the point.


----------



## Macfury

Your attempt at humour failed, Freddie. Trying to lecture us about why we should find it funny is an even bigger fail.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Humour is something you simply don't get, Bob. The point isn't whether other famous people pick their nose, the point is that this guy is the ultimate loner in a room full of word leaders at the G-20 summit. Nobody wants to play with or sit beside poor little Donald, and being a nose picker is not his biggest weakness. I'm afraid you can't research your way into getting a sense of humour, and calling someone else lazy just underscores how out of touch you are.
> 
> Yes, I'd seen those images, but they weren't relevant to the point.


----------



## FeXL

Humour is something you simply don't possess, Freddie.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Humour is something you simply don't get, Bob.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your attempt at humour failed, Freddie. Trying to lecture us about why we should find it funny is an even bigger fail.




The fact that you have no sense of humour is not my failure. I'm not lecturing "us"....just pointing at YOUR failure to grasp what most others perceive.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Humour is something you simply don't possess, Freddie.




Ha ha! That's funny! Probably the most ironic thing you've ever said too.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> The fact that you have no sense of humour is not my failure. I'm not lecturing "us"....just pointing at YOUR failure to grasp what most others perceive.


If you have to explain it, it ain't funny. 

Pretty sure that's one of the KISS rules.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> If you have to explain it, it ain't funny.


DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!

We have a winnah!

No raisin pie for you, Freddie.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, this would be saweet, too...

Julian Assange Claims That "Sources" Confirm The Hillary Clinton Email Investigation Will be Re-Opened "Later Next Week"


----------



## FeXL

FBI: Half of Comey's "Private" Memos About Conversations With Trump Contain Classified Information



> Importantly, we don't know if the memos he leaked to his "friend" to leak to the media are among those containing classified information, or he shared the classified parts with his friend.
> 
> Still, a very interesting development, and I think a Special Prosecutor is necessary to get to the bottom of it.


----------



## CubaMark

*Well.... that explains a lot.....
*
Majority of Republicans think higher education is bad for America / Boing Boing


----------



## Macfury

I think higher education may have had a bad effect on your willingness to research the nonsense you post.

The poll does not say they are against higher education. The question asked was whether colleges and universities have a "positive or negative effect on the way things are going in the country these days?" 




CubaMark said:


> *Well.... that explains a lot.....
> *
> Majority of Republicans think higher education is bad for America / Boing Boing


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> If you have to explain it, it ain't funny.
> 
> Pretty sure that's one of the KISS rules.



Agreed. Or the other party ain't pickin' up what you're puttin' down.


----------



## Macfury

I guess that second clause is easier on your ego.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Agreed. Or the other party ain't pickin' up what you're puttin' down.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I guess that second clause is easier on your ego.




And more polite than saying a lot of things go right over your head.


----------



## Macfury

Your Internet memes are just too sophisticated for me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And more polite than saying a lot of things go right over your head.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I think higher education may have had a bad effect on your willingness to research the nonsense you post.
> 
> The poll does not say they are against higher education. The question asked was whether colleges and universities have a "positive or negative effect on the way things are going in the country these days?"


There ya go again, destroying yet one more Prog narrative using actual facts...

Do you not tire of this?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Tracking Obama's promises



> PolitiFact tracked 533 campaign promises made by Barack Obama on our Obameter. Browse the library of promises below or see the final report card and our special interactive report here.


More:



> As his presidency concludes, PolitiFact’s Obameter shows 48 percent of his promises rated Promise Kept, while another 28 percent were part of a Compromise. He broke 24 percent of them.


Close enough for gov't work...


----------



## CubaMark

Any of you Trumpites want to get out ahead of this story before it gets any more...interesting? 

Or perhaps you already have a plan to whitewash your past posts about how all this kerfuffle about Russia helping Trump is just so much "prog" chatter?



*6 things to watch for next in the Donald Trump Jr. saga*


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Any of you Trumpites want to get out ahead of this story before it gets any more...interesting?


What's supposed to be illegal about this?


----------



## eMacMan

Some things the Hiliary supporters keep glossing over. 

Even if Russia did interfere, it was pretty mild compared to US interference in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, the Ukraine, Yemen......................

Furthermore if there was interference, it seems to revolve around revealing the truth about Hiliary. The woman was her own worst enemy. FWIW it still appears far more likely that the eMails were downloaded directly from the DNC server. An inside job just like 9/11.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## FeXL

Another Prog narrative falls before the facts.

FACT CHECK: 94 Percent of U.S. Terrorism Fatalities Are Caused by Islamic Terrorists



> *That said, the fact remains that examining the FBI data by fatalities and injuries is a much more accurate analysis of the data. That data shows that 94 percent of Americans who died in terror attacks during this 25-year period were killed by jihadist groups.* I don't have to use "by incidents" gymnastics to get there, as that data is stated clearly in the FBI report.
> 
> The only reason the "94% of attacks are by non-Muslims" statistic continues to survive is because those pushing the claim rarely if ever get called out on it or are forced to defend it.


Links' bold.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Charlie Foxtrot.

Yes, Obamacare has ‘stabilized’ … like a dead body is stable



> *Don’t pay attention to the tripling of premiums, doubling of deductibles, and narrowing provider networks covered by your quasi-government-run insurance.* A new “study” from Kaiser Family Foundation, promoted prominently in the media, finds that the insurance markets have “stabilized.” Evidently, we need to conduct a study to ascertain a status that is apparent to any consumer not dependent upon the government, and ironically, that study has contradicted incontrovertible reality.


M'bold.

What more could you want?


----------



## FeXL

Shouldn't be a surprise to anybody paying attention.

Best-Run States Are Low-Tax Republican, Worst-Run Are High-Tax Democratic, Study Finds



> According to the latest ranking of states by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, the most fiscally sound states in the nation are all low-tax, GOP strongholds, while the 10 least-solvent states are almost all high-tax and heavily Democratic.


----------



## FeXL

Good questions.

Why Did Loretta Lynch Grant Trump Jr's Russian Lawyer A Special Visa To Enter America?



> We look forward to the hearing where Lynch has to explain how she gave this "russian operative" special access to America, then lost track of her, only to discover her again via NSA intercepts, trying to pitch Magnitsky Act repeal to Trump Jr.


----------



## FeXL

So, CM, all I can find is so much "Prog" chatter. In other words, yet one more great, big, fat nothingburger in the left's pursuit of Trump's collusion with "THE RUSSKIES!!!" 

Trump Jr.’s Emails Undermine Collusion Conspiracy Theory



> Donald Trump Jr. fought back yesterday against the increasingly desperate shrieking from the tinfoil-hat Left by publishing online the emails that led to his innocuous campaign-season meeting a year ago with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya.


And while you're at it, perhaps you'd like to elucidate on Lynch's involvement in this.

Jes' sayin'...



CubaMark said:


> Any of you Trumpites want to get out ahead of this story before it gets any more...interesting?
> 
> Or perhaps you already have a plan to whitewash your past posts about how all this kerfuffle about Russia helping Trump is just so much "prog" chatter?


----------



## FeXL

Tell ya what, CM, seein' as yer so busy today, let me post an article further describing Lynch's involvement with said Russian lawyer.

Loretta Lynch Let RUSSIAN SPY Lawyer Into Country For "Extraordinary Circumstances;"
McCain Sent Aide to Europe to Collect RUSSIAN Opposition Research on Trump



> BTW, word out on social media is that those "extraordinary circumstances" were just her work for her client, and word further has it that that client (her law firm) is associated with Fusion GPS.


After a lengthy expose, he sums:



> I think what we are viewing here is a little conspiracy of hypocrites and prudes, shrieking they'd never do something Immoral while their whores and bagman sneak out the back door.
> 
> For years, American political operatives (usually Democrats) have gone over to foreign countries to help get socialists elected. Am I really supposed to believe there are no reciprocal back-channel exchanges going on, where grateful foreigners report to Democrat operatives what their spy services have dug up on Republicans?
> 
> I'm tired of pretending, and I'm tired of the Adult Children who seem to delight in pretending.


Yep.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Echo echo echo......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Echo echo echo......
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There it goes again! Tapatapatapatapatapatapatapatapatalk!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> There it goes again! Tapatapatapatapatapatapatapatapatalk!



At least I don't talk to myself in post after post after post after post.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Is this the same Time that had the madam president cover ready to go?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> At least I don't talk to myself in post after post after post after post.


Nobody here is talking to themselves--not even you.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Is this the same Time that had the madam president cover ready to go?


I keep asking the question--what was Donald Trump Jr. supposed to have done that was illegal? Have a meeting with a Russian lawyer that Obama had allowed to enter the country without a Visa? All I see is memes and all I hear is crickets.

Maybe Freddie can fill us in with facts, instead of innuendo.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I keep asking the question--what was Donald Trump Jr. supposed to have done that was illegal? Have a meeting with a Russian lawyer that Obama had allowed to enter the country without a Visa? All I see is memes and all I hear is crickets.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Freddie can fill us in with facts, instead of innuendo.



Innuendo: an Italian word for suppository.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I keep asking the question--what was Donald Trump Jr. supposed to have done that was illegal? Have a meeting with a Russian lawyer that Obama had allowed to enter the country without a Visa? All I see is memes and all I hear is crickets.
> 
> Maybe Freddie can fill us in with facts, instead of innuendo.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Innuendo: an Italian word for suppository.


I guess that's a no. 

BTW this is worth repeating.


eMacMan said:


> Some things the Hiliary supporters keep glossing over.
> 
> Even if Russia did interfere, it was pretty mild compared to US interference in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, the Ukraine, Yemen......................
> 
> Furthermore if there was interference, it seems to revolve around revealing the truth about Hiliary. The woman was her own worst enemy. FWIW it still appears far more likely that the eMails were downloaded directly from the DNC server. An inside job just like 9/11?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I guess that's a no.
> 
> BTW this is worth repeating.



Why are you still talking about Hillary?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I guess that's a no.


I haven't got a single word of sense from Freddie regarding the Russian delusion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I haven't got a single word of sense from Freddie regarding the Russian delusion.



You can read. Why don't you tell us what you think, O Wise One? If I explain it to you, you'll only attempt to refute it.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You can read. Why don't you tell us what you think, O Wise One? If I explain it to you, you'll only attempt to refute it.


This explains it very well, and likely not the way you would attempt to explain it Freddie:

*Still not the smoking gun for Trump*

https://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/7419301-still-not-the-smoking-gun-for-trump/


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You can read. Why don't you tell us what you think, O Wise One? If I explain it to you, you'll only attempt to refute it.


That is of course how debate works. A valid point is very difficult to refute.

Fear that a point won't withstand scrutiny is a pretty good indicator that it is extremely weak. A good example: Calling people deniers or resorting to the 97% consensus, rather than producing hard, non-fudged data.


----------



## Macfury

Be honest with me. Did you thoroughly read the article?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You can read. Why don't you tell us what you think, O Wise One? If I explain it to you, you'll only attempt to refute it.


----------



## Macfury

Some hilarious fallout as the Trump Russia narrative unravels:

* Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya who met with Donald Trump Jr., has been revealed to be an anti-Trumpist--through her Facebook page!
* She has ties to Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson, the guy responsible for the fake "pissgate" dossier.
* Obama allowed Veselnitskaya to enter the country without a Visa for unknown reasons. It appears that Obama may have encouraged her meeting with Donald Trump Jr. as a pretext for executing a FISA warrant.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> A valid point is very difficult to refute.


Still waiting to see one of those. And a meme won't cut it.


----------



## FeXL

In other words, fists clenched, tears falling, IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI!!! :-(

FFS, Freddie, act your age, not your shoe size...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You can read. Why don't you tell us what you think, O Wise One? If I explain it to you, you'll only attempt to refute it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Be honest with me. Did you thoroughly read the article?




Let's try that shoe on the other foot. Be honest with me. Did you thoroughly read the article?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> In other words, fists clenched, tears falling, IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI!!! :-(
> 
> 
> 
> FFS, Freddie, act your age, not your shoe size...



I'm afraid every word would go over your head if I employed that strategy. You got nuttin'. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Sure I'll tell you--after you answer.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Let's try that shoe on the other foot. Be honest with me. Did you thoroughly read the article?


----------



## Macfury

Your shoes are size 200?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm afraid every word would go over your head if I employed that strategy. You got nuttin'.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Sure I'll tell you--after you answer.



Yes I did. Did you?


----------



## Macfury

Yes. It said almost nothing. 

They don't accuse Donald Trump Jr. of doing anything wrong. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes I did. Did you?


----------



## FeXL

Every time you post yet one more CFP, it goes over my head. Got no problems admitting I don't have a clew WTF yer talking about 9/10's of the time. Then again, neither do you...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm afraid every word would go over your head if I employed that strategy.


And you got less.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You got nuttin'.


----------



## FeXL

Curiouser & curiouser...

Haiti Official, Who Exposed The Clinton Foundation, Found Dead In Miami



> Klaus Eberwein, a former Haitian government official who was expected to expose the extent of Clinton Foundation corruption and malpractice next week, has been found dead in Miami. He was 50.


More:



> According to Miami-Dade’s medical examiner records supervisor, the official cause of death is _“gunshot to the head“_. Eberwein’s death has been registered as _“suicide.”_


Of course.

And, another suicide from yet one more person who dared to ask questions about Bill's Wife...

GOP operative who sought Clinton's emails committed suicide



> A Republican Party operative who said he tried to obtain Hillary Clinton’s emails from Russian hackers committed suicide days after speaking to The Wall Street Journal, records acquired by the Chicago Tribune show.


More:



> In Smith’s hotel room, he left a “statement police called a suicide note in which he said he was in ill health and a life insurance policy was expiring,” the Tribune reported.
> 
> His death, which a police chief called “unusual,” had been recorded as “asphyxiation due to displacement of oxygen in a confined space with helium.” Smith was found with a bag over his head and a helium source attached.


Things that make you go hmmm...


----------



## CubaMark

_Jeebus. How can US reporters continue to cover this Buffoon-in-Chief with a straight face?_

*Donald Trump says Mexico border wall must be see-through to stop 'sacks of drugs' landing on people's heads*
| The Independent​
More:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUpssAX6usE[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Trump is punking the reporters... and you!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Your shoes are size 200?


He'd have been a tall man if he didn't have so much turned under...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Curiouser & curiouser...
> 
> Haiti Official, Who Exposed The Clinton Foundation, Found Dead In Miami


From that article


> Eberwein, who had acknowledged his life was in danger, was a fierce critic of the Clinton Foundation’s activities in the Caribbean island, where he served as director general of the government’s economic development agency, _Fonds d’assistance économique et social_, for three years.
> According to Eberwein, a paltry 0.6% of donations granted by international donors to the Clinton Foundation with the express purpose of directly assisting Haitians actually ended up in the hands of Haitian organizations. A further 9.6% ended up with the Haitian government. The remaining 89.8% – or $5.4 billion – was funneled to non-Haitian organizations.
> “_The Clinton Foundation, they are criminals, they are thieves, they are liars, they are a disgrace_,” Eberwein said at a protest outside the Clinton Foundation headquarters in Manhattan last year.


Can't find the article now but I have read he committed suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head. Yet one more case of Arkanicide?

May explain why our illuminous PM wishes to divert taxpayer money to the Clinton Cabal Foundation. He just does not want to wake up dead.


----------



## FeXL

WTF? Who died at Snopes & who filled their shoes? :yikes:

Shock: Snopes Factchecks MSM's Fake News



> The conventional thing for media fact-checkers to do these days is to focus on President Trump's myriad gaffes, goofs, misstatements, jokes, exaggerations, etc. -- and to characterize them all as intentional lies. The non-conventional and wholly unexpected thing for a media fact-checker to do is to focus on the media's own dishonesty.
> 
> But that is just what the fact-checking website Snopes did in a recent post, "The Lies of Donald Trump’s Critics, and How They Shape His Many Personas," by Dan MacGuill.
> 
> Conservatives have long accused Snopes of having a left-wing bias when it comes to fact-checking political stories -- so this comes as a very welcome surprise.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> And, another suicide from yet one more person who dared to ask questions about Bill's Wife...
> 
> GOP operative who sought Clinton's emails committed suicide


Had not put that one down to Arkanicide, until I reread this part:


> In Smith’s hotel room, he left a “statement police called a suicide note in which he said he was in ill health and a life insurance policy was expiring,” the Tribune reported.


I hate to point out the obvious but life insurance does not pay out for suicide. Even a Republirat would have sufficient mental awareness to con that one out. Seems that line may have been a message from the Clinton-DNC Cabal; 'Not only will we take you out, but we will also make sure your family does not collect'


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Had not put that one done to Arkanicide, until I reread this part:
> 
> 
> I hate to point out the obvious but life insurance does not pay put for suicide. Even a Republirat would have sufficient mental awareness to con that one out. Seems that line may have been a message from the Clinton-DNC Cabal; 'Not only will we take you out but we will also make sure your family does not collect'




It used to be that way, but I believe it's a little more complex than the old all or nothing approach they used to use on suicide and insurance payouts.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> It used to be that way, but I believe it's a little more complex than the old all or nothing approach they used to use on suicide and insurance payouts.


What kind of an insurance policy pays out on suicide?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What kind of an insurance policy pays out on suicide?


Probably a codicil in the Charlie Foxtrot...


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of which...

Michigan: Muslim doctors arrested for scamming Medicare for $164M



> The U.S. Justice Department is calling an opioid prescription drug and health care fraud scheme the largest operation of its kind in United States history, and part of it is centered in Metro Detroit.
> 
> Officials have made 412 arrests nationwide, including 56 doctors and targeting 200 clinics. The Justice Department said those arrested are responsible for $1.3 billion in fraudulent transactions.
> 
> Federal officials said a group of Michigan doctors was responsible for a major chunk of the scheme.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What kind of an insurance policy pays out on suicide?



A little research will help answer that question.



> The Myth and the Truth
> 
> From religion to law, suicide has lent itself to many official and unofficial “rules,” myths, and cautionary tales. It’s not surprising that insurance made its way into the mix, and many people incorrectly believe that if you commit suicide, your life insurance will refuse to pay out — bottom line.
> 
> In actuality, that’s not always the case. The answer is actually in an individual life insurance policy. Many life insurance policies, just like any other insurance coverage, come with certain exclusions that null and void any benefits should you expire in a certain way, i.e., suicide. However, there can be fine print attached to that exclusion. Some policies will pay benefits even if the policyholder committed suicide, but the policyholder would have had to committed suicide after holding the life insurance policy for two to three years depending on the carrier....


http://www.insurancequotes.org/life/the-truth-about-suicide-life-insurance/


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> A little research will help answer that question.
> 
> The Truth About Suicide & Life Insurance - InsuranceQuotes.org


Freddie, you bastard! How dare you bring facts into ehMac?!?

You should be banned. BANNED, I tells ya!

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I don't think that _that _little research will help answer the question. All those links say is that that a life insurance policy will:

* not pay out on suicide within the first two years of the policy
* must pay out on suicide only if the policy does not specifically state that it will not pay out on suicide.

So I ask again, what sort of policy specifically includes a suicide payout in its list of benefits?




Freddie_Biff said:


> A little research will help answer that question.
> 
> 
> The Truth About Suicide & Life Insurance - InsuranceQuotes.org


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Freddie, you bastard! How dare you bring facts into ehMac?!?
> 
> 
> 
> You should be banned. BANNED, I tells ya!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:



Mind blowing, I know. So to speak.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't think that _that _little research will help answer the question. All those links say is that that a life insurance policy will:
> 
> 
> 
> * not pay out on suicide within the first two years of the policy
> 
> * must pay out on suicide only if the policy does not specifically state that it will not pay out on suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> So I ask again, what sort of policy specifically includes a suicide payout in its list of benefits?




You said that they won't pay out on a suicide. Unequivocally. I provided evidence from the insurance industry that that is not always the case. Seems the onus is now on you to prove that they NEVER pay out in the case of suicide. I have proven what I set out to prove. Not my fault if you don't like being proven wrong. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

The links say that the companies will pay out on suicide if they forget to exclude suicide from their life insurance policy. So your proof is that an insurance company might, through its own negligence in writing the policy, cover self-inflicted death? So I'm sticking to my original question, asking you to show me an insurance company that in real life deliberately offers a suicide benefit.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You said that they won't pay out on a suicide. Unequivocally. I provided evidence from the insurance industry that that is not always the case. Seems the onus is now on you to prove that they NEVER pay out in the case of suicide. I have proven what I set out to prove. Not my fault if you don't like being proven wrong.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I don't think that _that _little research will help answer the question. All those links say is that that a life insurance policy will:
> 
> * not pay out on suicide within the first two years of the policy
> * must pay out on suicide only if the policy does not specifically state that it will not pay out on suicide.
> 
> So I ask again, what sort of policy specifically includes a suicide payout in its list of benefits?





Freddie_Biff said:


> You said that they won't pay out on a suicide. Unequivocally. I provided evidence from the insurance industry that that is not always the case. Seems the onus is now on you to prove that they NEVER pay out in the case of suicide. I have proven what I set out to prove. Not my fault if you don't like being proven wrong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Over the past ten years, I think you would find about as many suicide payouts as Canadians killed in Muslim Terrorist attacks. The reason being that suicide is and always has been specifically excluded from all life insurance policies. 

Obviously companies are always expanding the fine print and in doing so may unintentionally drop that clause, but sooner or later someone will collect and the error will be corrected on all policies at the next renewal.

Matter of fact why not prove your side of the argument by providing 10 examples, from 10 different companies over the past year. You could easily come up with 10 payments for people who died in bathtubs, which is about as common as suicide, so let's see you produce evidence of payouts for suicide. Failing that it would appear that Arkanicide is still the most likely the cause of the death in question.


----------



## FeXL

Actually, it would be a long overdue & welcome change...



CubaMark said:


> Freddie, you bastard! How dare you bring facts into ehMac?!?
> 
> You should be banned. BANNED, I tells ya!
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Actually, it would be a long overdue & welcome change...


Amen... if it ever happens.


----------



## FeXL

Still winning!

Border Patrol union chief praises 'miraculous' drop in illegal immigration under Trump



> The significant downturn in the number of illegal border crossers between the U.S. and Mexico is "nothing short of miraculous," National Border Patrol Council President Brandon Judd said on C-SPAN Monday.
> 
> "As far as the Trump administration's efforts on immigration, this is something they campaigned heavily on," he said. "At six months, where we are on meeting those promises, we are seeing nothing short of miraculous. If you look at the rhetoric that President Trump has given, it has caused a number of illegal border crossings to go down. We have never seen such a drop that we currently have."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Over the past ten years, I think you would find about as many suicide payouts as Canadians killed in Muslim Terrorist attacks. The reason being that suicide is and always has been specifically excluded from all life insurance policies.
> 
> Obviously companies are always expanding the fine print and in doing so may unintentionally drop that clause, but sooner or later someone will collect and the error will be corrected on all policies at the next renewal.
> 
> Matter of fact why not prove your side of the argument by providing 10 examples, from 10 different companies over the past year. You could easily come up with 10 payments for people who died in bathtubs, which is about as common as suicide, so let's see you produce evidence of payouts for suicide. Failing that it would appear that Arkanicide is still the most likely the cause of the death in question.




If you have the time to provide these ten examples, knock yourself out. I already provided a counter-example to the claim that insurance policies never pay out in suicides. 

One thing you may wish to consider: many suicides happen as a last resort when a person is depressed. Obviously no one wants to see insurance companies taken advantage of, but a refusal to pay anything at all to the family of a victim seems especially prejudicial. It's like punishing someone and the family of someone for having an illness. What is somebody smokes incessantly and dies of lung cancer? Is that not a form of slow suicide? Obesity? Risky behaviour like drinking or texting a driver? If you give it some good honest thought, you might find that is not always so clear cut to distinguish what is and is not suicidal behaviour. No need to be simplistic here.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> If you have the time to provide these ten examples, knock yourself out. I already provided a counter-example to the claim that insurance policies never pay out in suicides.
> 
> One thing you may wish to consider: many suicides happen as a last resort when a person is depressed. Obviously no one wants to see insurance companies taken advantage of, but a refusal to pay anything at all to the family of a victim seems especially prejudicial. It's like punishing someone and the family of someone for having an illness. What is somebody smokes incessantly and dies of lung cancer? Is that not a form of slow suicide? Obesity? Risky behaviour like drinking or texting a driver? If you give it some good honest thought, you might find that is not always so clear cut to distinguish what is and is not suicidal behaviour. No need to be simplistic here.


IOW not a single real world example. So here's a simpler challenge, see if you can find three life insurance policies that do not have a suicide exclusion clause, or better yet a clause defining when it will pay out for suicide. 

I am sure any insurance pimp will be delighted for an opportunity to pedal his/her wares. Try the Yellow Pages.

Failing both challenges it still looks like Arkanicide.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> IOW not a single real world example. So here's a simpler challenge, see if you can find three life insurance policies that do not have a suicide exclusion clause, or better yet a clause defining when it will pay out for suicide.
> 
> I am sure any insurance pimp will be delighted for an opportunity to pedal his/her wares. Try the Yellow Pages.
> 
> Failing both challenges it still looks like Arkanicide.



You failed to consider even one thing I said in my explanation to you about why suicide is a dodgy term to begin with. It's a key reason policies may be shifting. If you're not going to put in any effort, why should I? Will insurance companies pay out in the case of suicide? Yes they will, in certain circumstances. I'm not an insurance agent. I don't profess to have all the answers. As for "real world" cases, you're shifting the bar. Someone on here maintains that they NEVER pay out for suicides. What are you saying?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I'm not sure why you can't look this stuff up yourself, eMacMan, but it would appear suicide is absolutely covered under almost all life insurance policies provided that the deceased had been insured for more than two years prior to their death. If they fail to disclose a mental illness, that could be a different story. If they do disclose, it could also be mean they get turned down for insurance, so it's a little dicey. In any event, the regulations from the sources I've seen seem pretty consistent. Why don't you find proof that people who have had policies for more than two years who commit suicide are NOT covered. It seems the burden of proof is on you. 



> Life Insurance Can Actually Cover Suicide. Here's How.
> 
> Life Insurance Can Actually Cover Suicide. Here's How.
> Almost all 99% of life insurance policies pay death benefits to a policyholder's beneficiaries. So, it's pretty much guaranteed that your family will receive a payout when you die.
> 
> But how about that 1% of rejected life insurance claims -- are suicide cases among them? Unfortunately for beneficiaries, they are. Insurers can reject coverage for suicide, but only if the suicide happens within a specific period of time.
> 
> When Is Suicide Covered?
> 
> For every insurance policy, there are two exclusions that dictate if and when suicide is covered.
> 
> 1) The Suicide Clause
> 
> A life insurance company won't pay death benefits if the policyholder commits suicide within a specific period of time after their policy takes effect. In most states, that period is two years.
> 
> However, after those two years are up, the suicide clause no longer applies. If the policyholder commits suicide after the clause has expired, their life insurance claim typically can't be contested. Their beneficiaries will likely receive the full payout.
> 
> 2) The Contestability Clause
> 
> Like the suicide clause, the "contestability period" is a two-year window from the date that a life insurance policy takes effect. It says that if a policyholder dies within those first two years, their insurer has the right to investigate their cause of death. During this time, the insurance company can obtain an autopsy report, medical reports, and interviews with family and friends of the deceased.
> 
> Suicide Clause Vs. Contestability Clause
> 
> The suicide clause deals strictly with what insurers might call "intentional self-destruction" or "death by one's own hand." If a policyholder commits suicide within the time period dictated by the exclusion, the insurer will look for proof that their death was intentional. If it was, beneficiaries won't receive a payout.
> 
> On the other hand, the contestability clause applies to any death that happens in the first two years of a policy start date, whether or not it was intentional. Say, for instance, that you die of lung cancer. Your insurer will look through your medical report to see if you have a history of smoking. If you do, and you didn't disclose that to your insurance company, they have a right to cancel your death benefits.
> 
> Why Exclude Suicide Coverage?
> 
> Insurance policies include a suicide provision to protect insurers. Without the exclusion, a policyholder could buy a policy with the intention of committing suicide. As soon as their policy took effect, they could take their own life, and their beneficiaries would receive the policy's full payout.
> 
> That might seem like an outrageous scenario, that someone could be so desperate to ease their family's financial struggles that they'd actually take their own life. But it's happened. Loss of a job, rising debt, a death in the family -- these events might be so devastating, the promise of a life insurance benefit could be the deciding factor for committing suicide. The suicide clause tries to curb that incentive.
> 
> If you or someone you know is having suicidal thoughts, there is immediate help. Call the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1 (800) 273-8255 or visit www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org.
> 
> The Burden Of Proof Is On The Insurer
> 
> For a death to be considered suicide, the insurance company has to prove that the policyholder deliberately took their own life. Even if a policyholder's death is declared an accident, insurers still have the right to investigate within the time period dictated by the suicide clause.
> 
> Insurers might look at the policyholder's death certificate, autopsy report, or hospital report. They might interview family, friends, and (unfortunately) witnesses. They might also review the deceased's mental health history to see if they had recent psychiatric care, diagnoses of mental illness, a history of suicide attempts or threats, recent changes in behavior, ongoing drug habits, or even receipts for weapon purchases. A suicide note could also offer convincing evidence that the person intended to kill themselves.
> 
> What If The Deceased Had Mental Health Issues?
> 
> When you apply for a life insurance policy, you'll probably have to get a medical exam or blood test. Considering about 90% of suicide victims have a mental illness, insurers typically require applicants to disclose any history of mental illness and drug or alcohol dependencies.
> 
> If you have a history of depression, bipolar disorder, or substance abuse, and you don't tell your insurer, they have a right to cancel your death benefit if you die -- whether or not you committed suicide.
> 
> What If They Died Of An Overdose?
> 
> For an accidental overdose, the suicide clause won't typically apply. However, if that overdose happens within the "period of contestability," insurance companies have a right to investigate the death. They might conclude from an autopsy or witness testimony that the overdose was intentional, and therefore refuse the policy's payout to its beneficiaries.
> 
> If an overdose happens after the suicide clause expires, an insurer might still cancel a policy. Intentional drug overdose could be viewed as "dangerous activity," which is grounds for insurance companies to cancel a death benefit.
> 
> They might also find that the person had an ongoing drug habit. If the person didn't disclose the drug habit when they took out the policy, the insurer would consider the application fraudulent. The insurer has the right to cancel the policy.
> 
> Know The Terms Of Your Policy's Suicide Clause
> 
> For any life insurance policy, the devil is in the details. Before you pick a plan, speak with an agent about its exact exclusions. When you know what's covered in your plan, you can secure your family's future.


http://www.insuranceclarity.com/life/life-insurance-suicide-clause


----------



## Macfury

The suicide clause expires in two years. Following that, they only cover suicides if they accidentally fail to exclude them. That would last about one iteration of that policy.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The suicide clause expires in two years. Following that, they only cover suicides if they accidentally fail to exclude them. That would last about one iteration of that policy.


As I said earlier it is far more likely that bit about life insurance was a clear warning to others, that not only would the Clinton-DNC Cabal take them out, but would make dead certain the family was not taken care of. 

Also explains why no real life examples could be brought forth.

Nothing about that note made sense, even the part claiming there was nothing untoward about the "suicide". Really? Then why mention the possibility at all?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Still winning!
> 
> Border Patrol union chief praises 'miraculous' drop in illegal immigration under Trump


Oh please. Talk about cherry-picking your facts. Illegal immigration to the USA was net-negative for years under the Obama administration, due to border patrol crackdowns and interdiction policies that preceded Trump, and the U.S. economic crisis that reduced immigrant employment opportunities. Trump taking credit for things that he had little to nothing to do with is a hallmark of his... *cough*... "presidency".


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Oh please. Talk about cherry-picking your facts. Illegal immigration to the USA was net-negative for years under the Obama administration, due to border patrol crackdowns and interdiction policies that preceded Trump, and the U.S. economic crisis that reduced immigrant employment opportunities. Trump taking credit for things that he had little to nothing to do with is a hallmark of his... *cough*... "presidency".


The key claim seems to be year over year change, not a longer timeline. If true (I have not checked), what changed from last year to this that would be statistically significant?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> As I said earlier it is far more likely that bit about life insurance was a clear warning to others, that not only would the Clinton-DNC Cabal take them out, but would make dead certain the family was not taken care of.
> 
> Also explains why no real life examples could be brought forth.
> 
> Nothing about that note made sense, even the part claiming there was nothing untoward about the "suicide". Really? Then why mention the possibility at all?



Your obsession with "real life examples" is strange. To produce "real life examples" would mean violating the rights of people who have made and won claims. That would be a FOIPP issue.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your obsession with "real life examples" is strange. To produce "real life examples" would mean violating the rights of people who have made and won claims. That would be a FOIPP issue.


That's nonsense. You've come up empty and are now making excuses.


----------



## Macfury

You've been caught bare-assed on this nonsense before. _Legal_ immigration had fallen off. Yet you keep peddling the same BS.



CubaMark said:


> Oh please. Talk about cherry-picking your facts. Illegal immigration to the USA was net-negative for years under the Obama administration, due to border patrol crackdowns and interdiction policies that preceded Trump, and the U.S. economic crisis that reduced immigrant employment opportunities. Trump taking credit for things that he had little to nothing to do with is a hallmark of his... *cough*... "presidency".


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your obsession with "real life examples" is strange. To produce "real life examples" would mean violating the rights of people who have made and won claims. That would be a FOIPP issue.


How is calling an insurance agent and asking if he has a life insurance policy that will pay out if you commit suicide, a FOIPP issue? That was the second possibility for real life examples I suggested. 

The real life examples are critically important as the issue is: Could his family possibly collect on a life insurance policy when he committed suicide. If there are only theoreticals requiring blundering on the part of the insurer then the suicide note is bogus, pure and simple. If the note is bogus then Arkansicide becomes far more probable than suicide.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> How is calling an insurance agent and asking if he has a life insurance policy that will pay out if you commit suicide, a FOIPP issue? That was the second possibility for real life examples I suggested.
> 
> The real life examples are critically important as the issue is: Could his family possibly collect on a life insurance policy when he committed suicide. If there are only theoreticals requiring blundering on the part of the insurer then the suicide note is bogus, pure and simple. If the note is bogus then Arkansicide becomes far more probable than suicide.




A policy is not a real life example. You keep asking for examples, but a policy is by definition theoretical. "If this, then this." An actual example of a payout would have to be confidential. Again, perhaps you should quote a policy that specifically excludes a payout for suicide where the policy owner has held the policy for more than two years. The only reason I can see is failure to disclose an illness, which would still be party hard on the surviving family, whose lives one paid into an insurance plan for so long to see no return. But more to the point: Why is it that you can't accept that views on mental illness may have evolved in the last fifty years? What constitutes or does not constitute suicide in your eyes? Is someone with lung cancer who deliberately smokes anyway suicidal, for example? How about someone who texts and drives?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's nonsense. You've come up empty and are now making excuses.




Bull****. I've come up with two examples that explain how insurance companies will pay out even in the case of suicide under certain conditions. It is you who have come up with nothing. Grow a pair and find some examples of policies yourself if you think the links I've provided are false.


----------



## Macfury

The articles never say that a policy WILL cover suicide, which is why they are not proof at all. They only say that they _might_ if the insurance company forgets to exclude it. The onus is on you to find a policy that covers suicide--not point to some amateur article that ruminates on the possibility that an insurance company _might_ make a mistake. 




Freddie_Biff said:


> Bull****. I've come up with two examples that explain how insurance companies will pay out even in the case of suicide under certain conditions. It is you who have come up with nothing. Grow a pair and find some examples of policies yourself if you think the links I've provided are false.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The articles never say that a policy WILL cover suicide, which is why they are not proof at all. They only say that they _might_ if the insurance company forgets to exclude it. The onus is on you to find a policy that covers suicide--not point to some amateur article that ruminates on the possibility that an insurance company _might_ make a mistake.




You are so incredibly lazy it is not even funny. You have produced nothing so far. Speaking out of your ass does not constitute evidence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yet another explanation that yes, persons who commit suicide who have held a policy for more than two years are covered, subject to possible exclusions depending on the policy. Nowhere do any of these articles from the insurance industry state that suicide is not covered by default. That is archaic thinking. 



> Each life insurance policy has different provisions, but one common provision that can be found in almost all life insurance policies is the suicide provision.
> 
> The suicide provision states that if a person covered under a life insurance policy dies as a result of suicide within two years from the policy issue date, then the beneficiary would only be entitled to a return-of-premium, as the policy becomes null and void.
> 
> After the two-year suicide provision, the policy would pay out if the insured were to die as a result of suicide. However, it should be noted that there may be additional clauses within the life insurance contract that must be verified. The policy owner should verify the suicide provision and any policy exclusions as they may differ from company to company


https://lsminsurance.ca/life-insurance-canada/2011/09/life-insurance-and-the-suicide-clause


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Show me one time frame, _any_ time frame when Barry held the reins, where illegal immigration dropped by half.

Just _one_...



CubaMark said:


> Illegal immigration to the USA was net-negative for years under the Obama administration...


----------



## Macfury

We said such a policy would not be available. No policy is based on a default position. 

Guess you could find a company offering a suicide policy easily, Freddie--why not do it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yet another explanation that yes, persons who commit suicide who have held a policy for more than two years are covered, subject to possible exclusions depending on the policy. Nowhere do any of these articles from the insurance industry state that suicide is not covered by default. That is archaic thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> https://lsminsurance.ca/life-insurance-canada/2011/09/life-insurance-and-the-suicide-clause
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Still winning!

White House backs FCC plan to reverse Obama-era ‘net neutrality’ rules



> _“Voters from across the political spectrum, including more than 75 percent of those who voted for Donald Trump, support strong net neutrality protections that keep the web free of extra fees, throttling, and censorship,” said Evan Greer, campaign director of Fight for the Future. “FCC chairman Ajit Pai is increasingly isolated — he has clearly misjudged the Republican base. No one wants companies like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T to have the power to decide what we can see and what we can say on the Internet.”_​


----------



## FeXL

Why am I _completely_ unsurprised?

Sanctuary City Seattle Dem Mayor Sexually Abused Foster Son



> Not long ago, Seattle's left-wing radical boss, Ed Murray, was trying to lead the war against President Trump. Seattle had created "safe spaces" for shooting up heroin. It was a sanctuary city for illegal aliens.
> 
> And Murray was determined to keep it that way.
> 
> Then allegations of sexual abuse resurfaced. Murray furiously denied them, but then announced that he wouldn't run for another term.


And who was to blame?



> Murray blamed "right-wing anti-gay" forces for his problems.


Of course...


----------



## FeXL

Curiouser & curiouser.

Trump Voter Fraud Investigation Prompts Thousands Of Colorado Voters To Cancel Their Registrations



> More than 3,000 Colorado voters have canceled their voter registrations after the Trump administration launched a voter fraud probe, according to Newsweek.
> 
> State election officials told the Denver Post that 3,394 voters have scratched themselves from the voter roll. Of those who were unregistered, nearly 90 percent were Democrats or independents.


Now, what could possibly compel honest, hard working, _legal_ voters to pull their registrations?

:lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Curiouser & curiouser.
> 
> Trump Voter Fraud Investigation Prompts Thousands Of Colorado Voters To Cancel Their Registrations
> 
> 
> 
> Now, what could possibly compel honest, hard working, _legal_ voters to pull their registrations?
> 
> :lmao:


The fact that a lot of unrelated information (including SIN#s) is collected at the time one registers. Having that information made public is not something most voters signed on for when they registered. The only way to keep it private is to de-register.

IOW it's mainly a privacy issue.


----------



## Macfury

It's a privacy issue that seems to be scaring the crap out of... Dems!



eMacMan said:


> The fact that a lot of unrelated information (including SIN#s) is collected at the time one registers. Having that information made public is not something most voters signed on for when they registered. The only way to keep it private is to de-register.
> 
> IOW it's mainly a privacy issue.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's aprovacy issue that seems to be scaring the crap out of... Dems!


Precisely. The exact portion of the populace that not only invites but encourages gov't participation, interference & control of every aspect of their lives.

All of a sudden they're worried about privacy?

Pardon me if I sound a bit...sceptical.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> We said such a policy would not be available. No policy is based on a default position.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess you could find a company offering a suicide policy easily, Freddie--why not do it?




You haven't offered an example of one that doesn't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely. The exact portion of the populace that not only invites but encourages gov't participation, interference & control of every aspect of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> All of a sudden they're worried about privacy?
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon me if I sound a bit...sceptical.



Sceptical. As in of or relating to sceptic issues.


----------



## Macfury

I certainly don't care whether you believe what everybody knows to be true and I won't waste time on your remedial education. You were the one that made the outrageous claim that life insurance policies cover suicide as a matter of course. 

Looks like you dropped the ball... again.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You haven't offered an example of one that doesn't.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sceptical. As in of or relating to sceptic issues.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


>


He doesn't know.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I certainly don't care whether you believe what everybody knows to be true and I won't waste time on your remedial education. You were the one that made the outrageous claim that life insurance policies cover suicide as a matter of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you dropped the ball... again.



Most do, after the two year holdout period. You have provided no evidence that they don't, while I have provided you three links from the insurance industry that says that they do. Looks you're the one lacking in education. Again. "Everyone knows it to be true" is hardly a convincing argument. Why not just admit you're wrong and educate yourself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


>




Your spelling, not mine. I've always spelled Skeptical with a k.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He doesn't know.



He doesn't know what? Apparently spelling is not your strong suit either.


----------



## macintosh doctor

John McCain - has brain Tumor - well explains whats wrong with him and to think i thought he was just crazy
time to check Polozi as well - she must have one as well.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> He doesn't know what? Apparently spelling is not your strong suit either.


He doesn't know that "sceptical" is an acceptable spelling of the word, unless you are American.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He doesn't know that "sceptical" is an acceptable spelling of the word, unless you are American.




Indeed, he has learned something today. Although it would appear you prefer the French version rather than the Greek from which it sprang, or the Latin which has predominated since the 16th century.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> John McCain - has brain Tumor - well explains whats wrong with him and to think i thought he was just crazy
> 
> time to check Polozi as well - she must have one as well.




A very compassionate response.


----------



## Macfury

If you told EhMac members that kangaroos were native to Prince Edward Island, they would not waste much time explaining to you that they did not live there. It would be up to you to show them a native PEI kangaroo. You could not do that with links written by amateurs saying that they had no examples or photos of native PEI kangaroos, but just maybe there has been an oversight.

No prize for you Freddie. 




Freddie_Biff said:


> Most do, after the two year holdout period. You have provided no evidence that they don't, while I have provided you three links from the insurance industry that says that they do. Looks you're the one lacking in education. Again. "Everyone knows it to be true" is hardly a convincing argument. Why not just admit you're wrong and educate yourself.


----------



## Macfury

He prefers the British/Canadian spelling.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed, he has learned something today. Although it would appear you prefer the French version rather than the Greek from which it sprang, or the Latin which has predominated since the 16th century.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He prefers the British/Canadian spelling.


Both are acceptable English. Interestingly, of all the words with multiple spellings that I only use one of, I actually vacillate beween the "c" & "k". However, I use the "c" version more, for unknown reasons.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you told EhMac members that kangaroos were native to Prince Edward Island, they would not waste much time explaining to you that they did not live there. It would be up to you to show them a native PEI kangaroo. You could not do that with links written by amateurs saying that they had no examples or photos of native PEI kangaroos, but just maybe there has been an oversight.
> 
> 
> 
> No prize for you Freddie.



I don't accept prizes from mentally challenged people as a rule. Misunderstandings are far too easy. In any event, we're talking about insurance policies, not kangaroos, and since you do not appear to have one shred of evidence to support your contention, then I shall allow you to continue to live in blissful ignorance if that's what you prefer.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He prefers the British/Canadian spelling.




Please show me one Canadian or British publication that uses your preferred setting. Shouldn't be too difficult, since no one in this country apparently spells it "skeptic." I am skeptical of your ability to meet the challenge, however. Must be the Greek in me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Both are acceptable English. Interestingly, of all the words with multiple spellings that I only use one of, I actually vacillate beween the "c" & "k". However, I use the "c" version more, for unknown reasons.




An honest answer, which I appreciate. I was honestly unaware of the other spelling.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Please show me one Canadian or British publication that uses your preferred setting. Shouldn't be too difficult, since no one in this country apparently spells it "skeptic." I am skeptical of your ability to meet the challenge, however. Must be the Greek in me.


Here you go, Freddie--from the Winnipeg Sun:

Jets best with nothing on the line | Winnipeg Jets | Sports | Winnipeg Sun



> A *sceptic* might argue it shows the character of a team when it struggles more with everything on the line.


And from the UK Spectator:


----------



## Macfury

I would prefer to live in blissful ignorance of what you call "proof" Freddie. Those amateur articles with non-experts ruminating on insurance broker websites don't remotely supply it. Again, just phone up any of those sites--or an Alberta insurance broker--and ask them to quote you on a REAL life insurance policy that pays out on suicide, and then you'll have proof. Until then, you got nothin', no matter how much you congratulate yourself.

(Don't you feel uncomfortable lashing out with the term "mentally challenged"?)



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't accept prizes from mentally challenged people as a rule. Misunderstandings are far too easy. In any event, we're talking about insurance policies, not kangaroos, and since you do not appear to have one shred of evidence to support your contention, then I shall allow you to continue to live in blissful ignorance if that's what you prefer.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> (Don't you feel uncomfortable lashing out with the term "mentally challenged"?)


Yeah, I thought that was uncalled for, too.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, further on carving the clitoris of young girls off with a rusty blade in the US.

Michigan female genital mutilation probe expands to Chicago, LA & NYC



> A federal case against a Michigan physician who allegedly performed female genital mutilation procedures on 100 girls has expanded to individuals in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City as well as Minnesota, her attorney has revealed.
> 
> ...
> 
> In court documents filed Tuesday, Nagarwala’s attorney Shannon Smith said that the federal investigation in the case has widened to targets in California, Illinois and New York, and that more people might be charged, reported the Detroit News.


----------



## CubaMark

*Let's outline Trump's achievements during his first six months in office*

President Donald Trump's first six months have been defined by his often angry and tasteless tweets, his ham-handed efforts to denigrate and undercut the multiple investigations into Russian influence in the 2016 election and the stalemated legislative battle to repeal and replace Obamacare.

But Trump is right in saying he has significantly influenced government and the nation's image -- though much of his impact has been negative. His most significant clear-cut triumph was installing conservative Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch. He can take credit for slowing the inflow of illegal immigrants. And his impact has gone well beyond that, a conclusion on which two recent articles from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum agreed.

** * **​
_Here are some other Trump "achievements:_

*FOREIGN POLICY*


Embraced autocrats in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Egypt and abandoned longtime U.S leadership in seeking to enhance democracy and human rights.
Insulted U.S. allies in Europe, especially Germany, and undercut longstanding U.S. treaty commitments.
Compromised Israel's intelligence sources.
Spurred more divisiveness in an already divided Middle East by setting off a squabble between Saudi Arabia, a major U.S. ally, and Qatar, home of the region's biggest U.S. military base.
Undermined U.S. global leadership on climate change by withdrawing from the Paris agreement, joining only Syria and Nicaragua as nonparticipants.
Reversed decades of Republican support for free trade, ceding leadership in Asia to China by withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership and elsewhere by encouraging the British exit from the European Community.
(The the full (long) list here: Dallas Morning News)​


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> He prefers the British/Canadian spelling.


A list

http://www.stjohnbrebeuf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Canadian-vs-American-Spelling-.pdf


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would prefer to live in blissful ignorance of what you call "proof" Freddie. Those amateur articles with non-experts ruminating on insurance broker websites don't remotely supply it. Again, just phone up any of those sites--or an Alberta insurance broker--and ask them to quote you on a REAL life insurance policy that pays out on suicide, and then you'll have proof. Until then, you got nothin', no matter how much you congratulate yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> (Don't you feel uncomfortable lashing out with the term "mentally challenged"?)




If the shoe fits...why don't you follow your own excellent advice and phone up an Alberta insurance broker and ask them to quote you on a REAL life policy that doesn't pay out on suicide and then you'll have proof. You can do it. You came through admirably on the whole "sceptic" thing, so if you really want to prove you're right, there's a way.


----------



## Macfury

You want me to prove YOUR point? That would be like a welfare program for the intellectually lazy. Until you do enough work to earn some credit here, your point remains unproven.




Freddie_Biff said:


> If the shoe fits...why don't you follow your own excellent advice and phone up an Alberta insurance broker and ask them to quote you on a REAL life policy that doesn't pay out on suicide and then you'll have proof. You can do it. You came through admirably on the whole "sceptic" thing, so if you really want to prove you're right, there's a way.


----------



## Macfury

Most of those "negatives" are positive! Shows how out-of-touch the progressive/media cabal has become.



CubaMark said:


> *Let's outline Trump's achievements during his first six months in office*
> 
> President Donald Trump's first six months have been defined by his often angry and tasteless tweets, his ham-handed efforts to denigrate and undercut the multiple investigations into Russian influence in the 2016 election and the stalemated legislative battle to repeal and replace Obamacare.
> 
> But Trump is right in saying he has significantly influenced government and the nation's image -- though much of his impact has been negative. His most significant clear-cut triumph was installing conservative Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch. He can take credit for slowing the inflow of illegal immigrants. And his impact has gone well beyond that, a conclusion on which two recent articles from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum agreed.
> 
> ** * **​
> _Here are some other Trump "achievements:_
> 
> *FOREIGN POLICY*
> 
> 
> Embraced autocrats in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Egypt and abandoned longtime U.S leadership in seeking to enhance democracy and human rights.
> Insulted U.S. allies in Europe, especially Germany, and undercut longstanding U.S. treaty commitments.
> Compromised Israel's intelligence sources.
> Spurred more divisiveness in an already divided Middle East by setting off a squabble between Saudi Arabia, a major U.S. ally, and Qatar, home of the region's biggest U.S. military base.
> Undermined U.S. global leadership on climate change by withdrawing from the Paris agreement, joining only Syria and Nicaragua as nonparticipants.
> Reversed decades of Republican support for free trade, ceding leadership in Asia to China by withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership and elsewhere by encouraging the British exit from the European Community.
> (The the full (long) list here: Dallas Morning News)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You want me to prove YOUR point? That would be like a welfare program for the intellectually lazy. Until you do enough work to earn some credit here, your point remains unproven.




No, I would like you to PROVE your point. I have proven my point three ways, which you do not seem to accept. I am asking you in that case to prove your point even ONE way, which you have failed to do. The available literature says that life insurance companies will pay out insurance to the families of suicide victims after a two year hold out and under conditions specified in each contract, such as full disclosure. There is no blanket "no payout for suicides" policy anymore. You refuse to believe this is so, so it is your responsibility to prove otherwise.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And yet another. Key terms: two year exclusions window, and individual exclusions, such as pre-existing conditions, which must be disclosed. However, disclosing these conditions can also exclude a person or make premiums very high. 

https://www.thebalance.com/does-a-life-insurance-policy-cover-suicide-2645609


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet another. Key terms: two year exclusions window, and individual exclusions, such as pre-existing conditions, which must be disclosed. However, disclosing these conditions can also exclude a person or make premiums very high.
> 
> https://www.thebalance.com/does-a-life-insurance-policy-cover-suicide-2645609


Yup, They'll insure a 99-year-old man with typhoid and cirrhosis for $100,000 in life insurance--provided he pays $98,000 in premiums.




Freddie_Biff said:


> NI have proven my point three ways, which you do not seem to accept. I am asking you in that case to prove your point even ONE way, which you have failed to do. The available literature says that life insurance companies will pay out insurance to the families of suicide victims after a two year hold out and under conditions specified in each contract, such as full disclosure. There is no blanket "no payout for suicides" policy anymore. You refuse to believe this is so, so it is your responsibility to prove otherwise.


Nobody said there was a blanket policy on suicide payouts. Only that suicide coverage is not offered by those policies. You haven't proven your point--only indicated in three articles (which appear to be copying the same boilerplate) that insurance policies might accidentally be forced to pay out on suicide if they are careless.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yup, They'll insure a 99-year-old man with typhoid and cirrhosis for $100,000 in life insurance--provided he pays $98,000 in premiums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody said there was a blanket policy on suicide payouts. Only that suicide coverage is not offered by those policies. You haven't proven your point--only indicated in three articles (which appear to be copying the same boilerplate) that insurance policies might accidentally be forced to pay out on suicide if they are careless.




And you haven't proven a damn thing to contradict it.


----------



## Macfury

Contradict what? The burden of proof is on you to show that a policy exists that explicitly covers suicide, which was the point of eMacMan's original post. 

Until then, your half-assed links to amateur articles on online insurance quote sites aren't cutting it. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you haven't proven a damn thing to contradict it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Contradict what? The burden of proof is on you to show that a policy exists that explicitly covers suicide, which was the point of eMacMan's original post.
> 
> 
> 
> Until then, your half-assed links to amateur articles on online insurance quote sites aren't cutting it.



I already did—several times. Just because you don't agree with these links doesn't mean I haven't done my part. Now please, again, respectfully, post even one link of a company that explicitly DENIES coverage of a suicide after the two years period. Your avoidance is getting irritating. Grow a pair. Man up. Take on the challenge. Or admit you're wrong. In fact, if even ONE insurer pays out for suicide, you're wrong.


----------



## Macfury

I'll bet you're irritated! It must be tough for you to hold the losing end of the stick on every debate you've engaged in on EhMac. Until you show us a real-life example of an insurance company that explicitly covers suicide, don't waste any more effort on the topic.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I already did—several times. Just because you don't agree with these links doesn't mean I haven't done my part. Now please, again, respectfully, post even one link of a company that explicitly DENIES coverage of a suicide after the two years period. Your avoidance is getting irritating. Grow a pair. Man up. Take on the challenge. Or admit you're wrong. In fact, if even ONE insurer pays out for suicide, you're wrong.


You seem to have lost track of the reason for this debate. You were maintaining that life insurance paying out for suicide is so common that it makes sense for someone to include it as a reason for committing suicide. Failing that the note loses all credibility. To establish that commonality you needed to produce real life examples of insurers paying out or offering coverage for suicide. 

Your single hypothetical possibility, dependent entirely on incompetence of the insurer, falls several miles short of the target. For that reason it still seems very likely that the note was bogus, and a bogus note means it was not suicide. If it wasn't suicide then Arkansicide becomes a likely cause of death.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> You seem to have lost track of the reason for this debate. You were maintaining that life insurance paying out for suicide is so common that it makes sense for someone to include it as a reason for committing suicide. Failing that the note loses all credibility. To establish that commonality you needed to produce real life examples of insurers paying out or offering coverage for suicide.
> 
> Your single hypothetical possibility, dependent entirely on incompetence of the insurer, falls several miles short of the target. For that reason it still seems very likely that the note was bogus, and a bogus note means it was not suicide. If it wasn't suicide then Arkansicide becomes a likely cause of death.



First, you're going to have to explain what Arkansicide is—I have found precious little to define it. Second, you seemed to suggest, forgive me if I'm wrong, that insurance companies never pay out in the case of suicide. I suggested (from reading, but I don't remember where) that suicide is not an open and shut case these days. It is certainly not about incompetence of the insurer. It is about compassion and the reason people have life insurance policies in the first place: to protect their loved ones in the case of their death. 

Macfury has turned this into some kind of bizarre pissing contest, as he always does. No matter. If at least one insurer would pay out in the case of suicide, not because of incompetency, but because the situation meets the conditions of the contract, than a payout can occur. This isn't rocket science. The company is trying to avoid being taken advantage of, and so has a minimum two year waiting period where if the insurer commits suicide within the first two years of taking the policy, then the policy becomes ill and void. It may also become null and void under certain other conditions, like failure to disclose certain health conditions, such as depression, which might make suicide more likely. 

Where you, eMacMan, and Macfury have fallen down in your argument is that I asked you to define suicide. Neither of you has attempted to do so. To some people, driving too fast is suicidal behaviour. To others, asking to have your morphine dose increased when you have terminal cancer is suicidal behaviour. Smoking and obesity also seem to be warning signs. So you'd be best be damn clear about what suicide is before you can say with any certainty what it isn't.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://webmail.mun.ca/?_task=mail&_caps=pdf=1,flash=1,tif=0&_uid=182249&_mbox=INBOX&_action=show

Not totally unexpected.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> https://webmail.mun.ca/?_task=mail&_caps=pdf=1,flash=1,tif=0&_uid=182249&_mbox=INBOX&_action=show
> 
> Not totally unexpected.


Hmmm, all I get at that link is this:


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hmmm, all I get at that link is this:


A Canadian perspective. Sean Spicer quits after Trump taps financier to head White House communications - World - CBC News


CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos


----------



## Macfury

This is getting tedious. You're pushing farther and farther afield to eke out some sort of false victory. If you didn't know what Arkincide was in the first place, why did you go off half-cocked? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> First, you're going to have to explain what Arkansicide is—I have found precious little to define it. Second, you seemed to suggest, forgive me if I'm wrong, that insurance companies never pay out in the case of suicide. I suggested (from reading, but I don't remember where) that suicide is not an open and shut case these days. It is certainly not about incompetence of the insurer. It is about compassion and the reason people have life insurance policies in the first place: to protect their loved ones in the case of their death.
> 
> Macfury has turned this into some kind of bizarre pissing contest, as he always does. No matter. If at least one insurer would pay out in the case of suicide, not because of incompetency, but because the situation meets the conditions of the contract, than a payout can occur. This isn't rocket science. The company is trying to avoid being taken advantage of, and so has a minimum two year waiting period where if the insurer commits suicide within the first two years of taking the policy, then the policy becomes ill and void. It may also become null and void under certain other conditions, like failure to disclose certain health conditions, such as depression, which might make suicide more likely.
> 
> Where you, eMacMan, and Macfury have fallen down in your argument is that I asked you to define suicide. Neither of you has attempted to do so. To some people, driving too fast is suicidal behaviour. To others, asking to have your morphine dose increased when you have terminal cancer is suicidal behaviour. Smoking and obesity also seem to be warning signs. So you'd be best be damn clear about what suicide is before you can say with any certainty what it isn't.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> A Canadian perspective. Sean Spicer quits after Trump taps financier to head White House communications - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos



I'm surprised Spicey lasted this long, actually. I thought he seemed irritated about having to sell his soul and look like an idiot long ago. It's going to be toughest on Melissa McCarthy though.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is getting tedious. You're pushing farther and farther afield to eke out some sort of false victory. If you didn't know what Arkincide was in the first place, why did you go off half-cocked?




I'll agree with on one thing: this is getting tedious. Why don't you just give up already? My point was never about Arkanicide; just the fact that yes, life insurance companies can and do pay out on suicides under certain conditions. That's all I've ever claimed, and you still have not disproven it.


----------



## Macfury

One can't disprove a point not proven. Now back to Arkincides.




Freddie_Biff said:


> I'll agree with on one thing: this is getting tedious. Why don't you just give up already? My point was never about Arkanicide; just the fact that yes, life insurance companies can and do pay out on suicides under certain conditions. That's all I've ever claimed, and you still have not disproven it.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm surprised Spicey lasted this long, actually. I thought he seemed irritated about having to sell his soul and look like an idiot long ago. It's going to be toughest on Melissa McCarthy though.


True on both points, Frank. I still recall his "greatest crowd ever" comment. He should have been at Woodstock.


----------



## CubaMark

*TRUMP’S NEW COMMS DIRECTOR HATES MOST OF TRUMP'S POLICIES*










EARLIER TODAY, THE White House announced that financier Anthony Scaramucci (also known as "The Mooch") would fill the role of White House communications director, a job that's been open since Mike Dubke resigned in May. And with former Press Secretary Sean Spicer's resignation just hours after, Scaramucci, new to the field, will have his work cut out for him. Especially since it he and the president disagree on so many of the policies Scaramucci will try to sell to the public.

Earlier today, writer Josh Billinson was one of the first to spot two old Scaramucci tweets that bashed Trump directly, which Scaramucci then promptly deleted. Of course, this won’t be the first time Trump’s hired someone with dissenting beliefs. His chief economic advisor, Gary Cohn, is a registered Democrat, and senior adviser Kellyanne Conway had previously bashed Trump for constantly whining about a rigged election.

These people have mostly taken on advisory roles, though. Scaramucci will be a mouthpiece. And while he's largely supported Trump, he hasn't supported many of Trump's current policies.

So as a way to welcome our new White House communications director, let's take a look at where he stands on some of the policies he'll start shilling for as of today.

(Read more at: Wired)​


----------



## Macfury

You should be happy about that CM!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You should be happy about that CM!


I'll reserve judgement until I see the new guy in action. My first reaction is disappointment that Melissa McCarthy won't be doing her Sean Spicer impression anymore... :-(

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ixrNRVFPU[/ame]


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I'll reserve judgement until I see the new guy in action. My first reaction is disappointment that Melissa McCarthy won't be doing her Sean Spicer impression anymore... :-(
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ixrNRVFPU


Yes, I too loved her SNL Spicy bits. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

It's kind of sad to see women undermine their own feminism by thinking that having a woman portray a man is an insult to that man.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> I'll reserve judgement until I see the new guy in action. My first reaction is disappointment that Melissa McCarthy won't be doing her Sean Spicer impression anymore... :-(


And I, on the other hand, am relieved that her over the top impression will not have to be endured any more.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> And I, on the other hand, am relieved that her over the top impression will not have to be endured any more.


That was the problem with the presentation--it was designed to elicit back-slapping brays from a progressive audience. The writing and performances were appalling. They should have watched some old episodes of SCTV to see how caricature should be done.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's kind of sad to see women undermine their own feminism by thinking that having a woman portray a man is an insult to that man.




Come again? How does McCarthy's portrayal undermine feminism?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Johnny L.A. said:


> 'I feel like every time a Trump employee quits, Oompa Loomas should appear & sing a song to teach us about the perils of gluttony & greed.' - Frankie on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do when your boss is a liar?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Speaking of Barry's failed policies, let's examine a page from his stellar foreign tome.
> 
> The Cole's notes version is that part of the Iranian nuclear deal allowed for Iran to produce a limited amount of heavy water. Any overproduction of said water would be purchased by "somebody", as admitting that Iran was in noncompliance would force Barry's administration to clear a spot for more egg on his face. It happened twice in 2016. Wonder of wonders, the US purchased the heavy water from Iran & Iran has suddenly discovered another cash cow, brimming with free money.
> 
> Whaddya s'pose they're spending the cash on? Hint: it ain't good will.


*And yet....*

*Trump Re-Ups Iran Nuclear Deal He Once Called The 'Worst Deal Ever'*

It took President Donald Trump 55 minutes of a one-hour meeting last week to argue with aides that he didn’t want to re-certify America’s nuclear deal with Iran—an Obama-era deal he roundly condemned on the campaign trail—only to capitulate in the last five, The New York Times is reporting. Problem for Trump is that the nuclear deal is actually working.

For those of you who do not understand what the Iran Deal is, I’ll explain. In short, the deal basically keeps Tehran from pursuing a nuclear weapon. Or, perhaps more accurately, delays the process.

** * **​
But no matter how many times the International Atomic Energy Agency says Tehran is not breaking the rules (on the most part), Trump insists on believing the contrary. Without presenting any facts, Trump has long lamented that the deal, brokered by the former Obama administration, was the “worst deal ever.” During his run for the White House, he vowed to end it.

Yet on Monday, as a legal deadline to do so loomed, Trump reluctantly agreed to re-up the agreement.

** * *​*
The IAEA has consistently found that Tehran is playing by the rules, but Trump insists on arguing that it is not. He wants to ratchet up sanctions against Iran for supporting terrorism, even though the agreement doesn’t deal with anything other than non-proliferation compliance.

Pursuing aggression against Iran because of issues outside of the stipulations of the deal is pure bull****. Don’t try and make sense of any of it.

For the foreseeable future, it is doubtful Washington will have warm relations with Iran. That’s not the aim at this point. The goal is to prevent them from building nukes. And that plan is actually working. 
(Jalopnik)​
_Now, let's sit back and see how the Trumpites spin this flip-flop. I'm sure there's a profound, deep understanding of the complexities of diplomacy with Iran and international nuclear deterrent surging through the powerful neurones of their great and wise leader, which doubtless escapes us mere mortals...._

:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Yup, 45 is a winner.


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump launches major attack on 'very weak' Attorney General Jeff Sessions, amid rumours he is set to fire him*










Donald Trump has launched his strongest attack yet on his "very weak" Attorney General Jeff Sessions, fuelling speculation he is preparing to fire him.

The US President took issue with Mr Sessions apparent reluctance to investigate presidential rival Hillary Clinton's alleged "crimes".

His early morning tweet followed a similar barb on Monday when he branded Mr Sessions "beleaguered".

Mr Trump's anger at Mr Sessions stems from the Attorney General's decision to recuse himself from all matters related to the investigation into alleged links between Russia and the Trump campaign.

The fate of Mr Sessions, the country’s top law enforcement official, has been uncertain since Mr Trump claimed in a recent interview that he had been “unfair” to him by recusing himself from the ongoing probe into last November’s election.
(Independent)​
*From 2015:*

_Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump praised Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) as a “very solid guy,” who “has given us some great ideas.”

Trump said of Sessions, “it is true that I spoke to him, and my people spoke to him and his staff. And he has a great — you know, he’s not, and he is not a wild man. You understand that. He’s a solid person. He’s not, you know, one of these guys that, [you say], ‘Wow, he’s pretty radical.’ He’s a very solid guy. And Alabama’s lucky to have him. He’s a great guy. He’s just a great guy. And he has a very strong inclination, and a very strong feel for the border, and what’s happening at the border, much more so than the other senators. And I’ve been watching this over the years, and I’ve been listening to him over the years, and I liked what he said. And, you know, he says you can’t have these people — we have — not only the jobs, it’s also, look at what’s happening with Kate and the security.”_
(Breitbart)​


----------



## Macfury

I would have been angry at Sessions as well--he had no good reason to recuse himself. A boob like Eric Holder hung in no matter how bad it looked on him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump launches major attack on 'very weak' Attorney General Jeff Sessions, amid rumours he is set to fire him*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump has launched his strongest attack yet on his "very weak" Attorney General Jeff Sessions, fuelling speculation he is preparing to fire him.
> 
> 
> 
> The US President took issue with Mr Sessions apparent reluctance to investigate presidential rival Hillary Clinton's alleged "crimes".
> 
> 
> 
> His early morning tweet followed a similar barb on Monday when he branded Mr Sessions "beleaguered".
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Trump's anger at Mr Sessions stems from the Attorney General's decision to recuse himself from all matters related to the investigation into alleged links between Russia and the Trump campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> The fate of Mr Sessions, the country’s top law enforcement official, has been uncertain since Mr Trump claimed in a recent interview that he had been “unfair” to him by recusing himself from the ongoing probe into last November’s election.
> 
> (Independent)​
> 
> 
> *From 2015:*
> 
> 
> 
> _Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump praised Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) as a “very solid guy,” who “has given us some great ideas.”
> 
> 
> 
> Trump said of Sessions, “it is true that I spoke to him, and my people spoke to him and his staff. And he has a great — you know, he’s not, and he is not a wild man. You understand that. He’s a solid person. He’s not, you know, one of these guys that, [you say], ‘Wow, he’s pretty radical.’ He’s a very solid guy. And Alabama’s lucky to have him. He’s a great guy. He’s just a great guy. And he has a very strong inclination, and a very strong feel for the border, and what’s happening at the border, much more so than the other senators. And I’ve been watching this over the years, and I’ve been listening to him over the years, and I liked what he said. And, you know, he says you can’t have these people — we have — not only the jobs, it’s also, look at what’s happening with Kate and the security.”_
> 
> (Breitbart)​




With all the people Donald seems to be firing, it sure makes one wonder why kind of judge of character he can be when he hired them in the first place.


----------



## FeXL

You appear bright, too, until one attempts to actually engage you...



Freddie_Biff said:


> With all the people Donald seems to be firing, it sure makes one wonder why kind of judge of character he can be when he hired them in the first place.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, thought it was the Republicans & the Russkies... 

Democrats intentionally used disinformation from Russia to attack Trump, campaign aides



> While the mainstream news media hunts for evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, the public record shows that Democrats have willfully used Moscow disinformation to influence the presidential election against Donald Trump and attack his administration.
> 
> The disinformation came in the form of a Russian-fed dossier written by former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele. It contains a series of unverified criminal charges against Mr. Trump’s campaign aides, such as coordinating Moscow’s hacking of Democratic Party computers.
> 
> Some Democrats have widely circulated the discredited information. Mr. Steele was paid by the Democrat-funded opposition research firm Fusion GPS with money from a Hillary Clinton backer. Fusion GPS distributed the dossier among Democrats and journalists. The information fell into the hands of the FBI, which used it in part to investigate Mr. Trump’s campaign aides.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You appear bright, too, until one attempts to actually engage you...



Yup. That's about what I thought you'd say. Once an asshole, always an asshole.


----------



## FeXL

More of that forum etiquette & manners you preach about, I presume?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. That's about what I thought you'd say. Once an asshole, always an asshole.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> More of that forum etiquette & manners you preach about, I presume?




One gives as good as one gets. Where's that mirror you keep mentioning?


----------



## FeXL

Which is precisely why I told you to fukc off _after_ you noted I was full of ****e. Cause, effect.



Freddie_Biff said:


> One gives as good as one gets. Where's that mirror you keep mentioning?


----------



## FeXL

So, apparently it runs in the family.

Feds arrest IT staffer for Wasserman Schultz trying to leave country



> A House IT staffer at the center of a congressional computer equipment scandal has been arrested by federal officials and charged with bank fraud, Fox News has learned.
> 
> Fox News is told officers and agents from the U.S. Capitol Police, the FBI and Customs and Border Protection were involved in the arrest of Imran Awan at Dulles International Airport.


More:



> *Several relatives of Awan worked for House Democrats and were fired months ago.* Awan, however, was kept on staff by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., even though he was no longer allowed access to the House server network.


Yeah, my bold.

Curious, that.


----------



## CubaMark

_The Republicans control the House and the Senate. They have the Presidency. And it's quite apparent that anything they've come up with in the last few months (still don't know why they weren't crafting it over the past eight years, but hey, politics, right?) pales in comparison to the (very flawed) Obamacare. It would be hilarious, if it wasn't a case of life and death for those who lose health care coverage because of the Big Orange Ego._

*Senate Health Debate Rolls On After First Option Fails*

Senate Republicans overcame a range of internal fissures in narrowly voting on Tuesday to begin debate on their health-care overhaul, but the party suffered a setback hours later when a proposal replacing major portions of the Affordable Care Act failed to attract enough votes to pass.

In a dramatic day at the Capitol, Vice President Mike Pence broke a 50-50 tie, allowing Senate Republicans to clear a procedural hurdle and setting up a days-long stretch of debate and amendment votes on the GOP effort to dismantle and replace much of former President Barack Obama’s 2010 Affordable Care Act.

The two GOP defections came from Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, who joined all Senate Democrats in voting against proceeding to debate the legislation.

The vote, punctuated by an emotional last-minute appearance by Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.), who was diagnosed recently with brain cancer, delivered a come-from-behind victory for President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), who persuaded Republicans skeptical of the GOP bill to band together long enough to begin debate.

Mr. Trump said after the vote that his party had taken “a big step” that would “move forward to truly great health care.”
(Wall Street Journal)​
*Related, from 2016:* Donald Trump’s Health Care Ideas Bewilder Republican Experts


----------



## Macfury

I think you can understand the issue better than the shills from the WSJ. Obamacare needs to be scrapped first, but the RINOs never wanted that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Eat your heart out, 45.


----------



## Macfury

Why he can't be the US president? Trudeau is not very bright... he doesn't even have street smarts. 

The End.


----------



## Dr.G.

July 26th, 1948 -- Pres. Truman signs an executive order to desegregate the US military.

July 26th, 2017 -- Pres. Trump tweets that the US will no longer allow someone who is transgender from serving in the US military. It took him three tweets to get out his whole message on this decision ..................... which is less than the five deferments he "obtained" to get out of serving in the military ........ but one more than the number of sons he has who have never served in the military. 

According to the Dept. of Defense, there are currently 15,000 transgender men and women actively serving in the various branches of the US military today. Now, purging them will be a true witch hunt.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


In all fairness, he voted in favor of getting the debate started. He just voted against the "repeal only" option.


----------



## Macfury

Because we all know that health care should be paid for by anyone but the end user!


----------



## Macfury

The exorbitant medical costs associated with transgender elective surgery is the reason. I don't believe Truman would have paid for that either.



Dr.G. said:


> July 26th, 1948 -- Pres. Truman signs an executive order to desegregate the US milirary.
> 
> July 26th, 2017 -- Pres. Trump tweets that the US will no longer allow someone who is transgender from serving in the US military. It took him three tweets to get out his whole message on this decision ..................... which is less than the five deferments he "obtained" to get out of serving in the military ........ but one more than the number of sons he has who have never served in the military.
> 
> According to the Dept. of Defense, there are currently 15,000 transgender men and women actively serving in the various branches of the US military today. Now, purging them will be a true witch hunt.


----------



## Dr.G.

So true ...........


----------



## Macfury

We don't have "health insurance" in Canada. We just have socialist healthcare.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> .... which is less than the five deferments he "obtained" to get out of serving in the military ........ but one more than the number of sons he has who have never served in the military.


I'm sorry, I must have missed something...

1) Exactly when did you serve? (Don't bother, I recall the story. I'm just savouring the irony.)
2) How many kids did Barry have in the military? And when did Barry serve? 
3) And precisely how is having a military background or having children in the military relative to the argument?


----------



## FeXL

They obviously just need more Jerry Brown. Or cowbell. Or something...

More than a third of California households have virtually no savings, are at risk of financial ruin, report says



> More than 37 percent of California households have so little cash saved that they couldn’t live at the poverty level for even three months if they lost a job or suffered another significant loss of income.
> 
> That’s the grim assessment of the 2017 Prosperity Now Scorecard. The report was compiled by Prosperity Now, a Washington, D.C.-based organization seeking to help people — particularly people of color and those with limited income — achieve financial security and prosperity.


I know! More _progressivism..._

Related:

California’s Green Policies Are Going Haywire



> Between its carbon market and its growing solar industry, little is going according to plan in California.


----------



## FeXL

When even the Dems are noticing...

NY State Democrat: Linda “Sarsour is a fraud”



> “Sarsour is a fraud,” said the Assemblyman. “She talks out of both sides of her mouth. One minute she’s claiming to be a disciple of the great Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and the next she’s standing with a terrorist on stage at an event, and singing praises of that terrorist to an audience. I won’t be the least bit surprised to hear that her little Jewish cemetery publicity stunt wasn’t quite what she made it out to be.”


Related:

Linda Sarsour invokes phony cemetery employee to explain why Jewish cemetery she raised $100,000 for got no money



> Several months ago, Leftist media darling Linda Sarsour, smarting from revelations of her inveterate antisemitism, with great fanfare raised $100,000 for a Jewish cemetery where the tombstones had been vandalized. But where is the money? The Algemeiner last week ran a story entitled, “Colorado Jewish Cemetery Promised $100,000 by BDS Activist Linda Sarsour in March 2017 Says Money Still Hasn’t Arrived.”
> 
> Sarsour was furious and threatened legal action against the Algemeiner. She did not prove that the money had been turned over to the cemetery, but she did produce a statement in her own defense from “Jennifer Goodland of Golden Hill Cemetery.”
> 
> There’s just one problem: Jennifer Goodland is not affiliated with Golden Hill Cemetery.
> 
> So where is the $100,000?


----------



## FeXL

Just like with renewables, once subsidies are cut to the Charlie Foxtrot, everybody bails.

Anthem threatens to leave additional Obamacare markets if cost-sharing payments are cut



> Anthem insurance is one of the few big players remaining in the Obamacare marketplaces. On a conference call Wednesday, CEO Joseph Swedish said the company was waiting to see whether or not cost-sharing subsidies were going to continue under the Trump administration. If they do not, he warned, his company would have to reconsider where it was offering plans.


Tell me again how wunnerful it is...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the unmentionable IT Guy arrest.

Total CNN and MSNBC Blackout of Arrest of IT Guy Continues; Print Media Mentions the Story -- with Hilarious Understatement



> _Major cable news networks have given no coverage to the burgeoning scandal involving IT staffers to former DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, according to a Washington Free Beacon analysis. _​


'Course! No Russkies... 

More:



> _Chris Gowen, Imran Awan’s lawyer, is a long-time campaigner for former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a member of an attorney team that brought a fraudulent lawsuit against energy giant Chevron. _​


Well, colour me surprised! 

Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

This is my schadenfreude smile—>

'Couldn't stand the heat so she's got out of the kitchen before we put the kettle on': Piers Morgan slams race faker Rachel Dolezal the 'white woman who identifies as black' as she runs away from GMB interview



> The white civil rights leader exposed for pretending to be black was accused of doing 'a runner' by Piers Morgan today as she pulled out of an interview.
> 
> Rachel Dolezal, 39, a former branch president for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, was due to appear on Good Morning Britain.
> 
> But Morgan tweeted: 'So Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who "identifies" as black, has done a runner and now won't be on GMB today. I identify her as a coward.'


Huh. Didn't know she was from Spokane. Next time I'm out there I'll have to ask what people think.


----------



## Macfury

Rasmussen says 15 million people would leave ObamaCare if they were not forced to participate by an authoritarian government:

https://ballotpedia.org/Scott_Rasmussen's_Number_of_the_Day


----------



## CubaMark

So, how do the Trumpites in here feel about Trump's _wake-up-and-gotta-tweet_ decision to ban transgender service people in the US military?

*Trump Bans Transgender People Serving in the Military*

President Donald Trump announced Wednesday a ban on transgender people serving in the military, reversing U.S. policy in a series of tweets.

_"After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow......Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming.....victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you,"​_
Trump wrote in a trio of consecutive tweets.

The abrupt policy shift will affect thousands of transgender troops in the military.

** * **​
Trump’s announcement came just over a year after former President Barack Obama’s then-Secretary of Defense Ash Carter lifted a ban on transgender military service — a move that allowed active-duty troops to come out of the closet as transgender people.

In the year since the ban was repealed, roughly 250 service members have applied to change their gender in the military's personnel system, Pentagon officials told the Associated Press in June.

** * **​
White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday that Trump's announcement was "a military decision" and was "not meant to be anything more than that," adding that that the president's administration believed the decision reached last year by the Obama administration "erodes military readiness and unit cohesion."

Sanders, taking questions at her daily press briefing, did not provide any information on how or when the Pentagon and White House would begin implementing the new ban.

When asked how the administration would deal with transgender troops currently serving and who are already deployed in far-flung places like Afghanistan, Sanders said only that the "implementation is something that the Department of Defense and the White House have to work together to lawfully determine."

"I imagine the Department of Defense will be the lead on this," she said.

Trump’s tweets Wednesday, however, seemed to catch the Pentagon off guard, coming more than an hour before the Defense Department released its own brief statement on the matter, in which it referred "all questions about the President's statements to the White House."
(NBC)​
*Pentagon Pushes Back on Trump Changes to Transgender Policy*

President Donald Trump’s hastily tweeted declaration that he’ll bar transgender people from serving in the military has run into the realities of Pentagon bureaucracy.

The Defense Department said Thursday there’ll be “no modifications” yet to its policy allowing transgender people to serve in the U.S. military until the Pentagon receives more formal notification from the White House. The move came a day after Trump’s announcement, citing the additional medical costs and “disruption” having such troops would cause, prompted bipartisan rebuke.

“There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance,” the office of Joint Chiefs Chairman Joseph Dunford said in a statement. “In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect.”
(Bloomberg)​
*Trump Transgender Military Ban Actual Costs*

On Wednesday morning, President Trump announced on Twitter that he was instituting a ban on transgender members of the military. The armed forces “cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender [people] in the military would entail,” he wrote.

But just how “tremendous” are those costs, really?

People reports that the medical costs associated with transgender soldiers are pretty minimal when you look at the big picture.

A study conducted last year by the Rand Corporation estimated that there are between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender people on active duty, and between 830 and 4,160 trans people in the reserves. And within that group, Rand estimated that only 29 to 129 service members on active duty would be seeking any gender transition-related medical care in a given year.

After crunching the numbers using health insurance data, the study estimates that the military’s medical costs would increase by between $2.4 million and $8.4 million each year. And yes, that sounds like a lot, but not when you factor in the big picture. When you factor in the military’s Unified Medical Program spending, it would amount to 0.005 to 0.017 percent of spending.

A separate study in the New England Journal of Medicine noted that treating trans soldiers amounts to “little more than a rounding error” in the military’s budget.










Now let’s compare these numbers to other government expenditures. NBC News reports that when President Trump travels from Washington to Mar-a-Lago in Florida, the trip costs anywhere from $1 million to $3 million. And he has spent seven weekends there so far during his presidency.

Another major government expenditure? Viagra. According to the Washington Post, the total military spending on erectile dysfunction is $84 million each year, and $41.6 million of that goes to Viagra alone

(Cosmopolitan)​


----------



## FeXL

WTF is a "Trumpites"?



CubaMark said:


> So, how do the Trumpites in here...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Bill's Wife is back with yet another explanatory tome for all the Progs who haven't figgered it out for free on the intertoobs yet!

Hillary Will Offer Personal, Candid Rehash of All Her Scripted Robotic Excuses in New Book "What Happened"



> How 'bout that title, huh?
> 
> Hillary has a real gift for catchy pith, doesn't she? "I'm with her." "Stronger together."
> 
> "What happened."
> 
> She's a poet made of nothing but heart and laser-light.
> 
> *So this gin-soaked nutter continues spiraling downward.*


M'bold.

BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hey, Bill's Wife is back with yet another explanatory tome for all the Progs who haven't figgered it out for free on the intertoobs yet!
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Will Offer Personal, Candid Rehash of All Her Scripted Robotic Excuses in New Book "What Happened"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> 
> 
> BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:




It is odd how you still appear to be threatened by Bill's wife eight months after the election. As does your populist hero.


----------



## Macfury

Threatened? It's like saying an irritating chunk of dog feces discovered on the sidewalk is a threat. 

What' at issue is that the woman belongs in jail. It's a case of rank injustice.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It is odd how you still appear to be threatened by Bill's wife eight months after the election. As does your populist hero.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> WTF is a "Trumpites"?


It's my pet name for the likes of you.

Now, care to address the matter at hand?

Or will you continue to avoid / deflect / misdirect / etc. _ad nauseum_?


----------



## Macfury

What's supposed to be the big deal with your post?



CubaMark said:


> Now, care to address the matter at hand?


----------



## FeXL

Oh. Thank you, asshole. (That's my pet name for the likes of you...)



CubaMark said:


> It's my pet name for the likes of you.


Nope. Don't care.



CubaMark said:


> Now, care to address the matter at hand?


Nah, that's Freddie's gig.



CubaMark said:


> Or will you continue to avoid / deflect / misdirect / etc. _ad nauseum_?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Oh. Thank you, *asshole*. (That's my pet name for the likes of you...)


Such civility! 

_Meanwhile_, the tragi-comedy at the White House continues...

*Anthony Scaramucci Called Me to Unload About White House Leakers, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon* | The New Yorker


----------



## FeXL

Wouldn't take long to ferret out a few prime examples of your civility, Mr. Perfect...



CubaMark said:


> Such civility!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Such civility!
> 
> 
> 
> _Meanwhile_, the tragi-comedy at the White House continues...
> 
> 
> 
> *Anthony Scaramucci Called Me to Unload About White House Leakers, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon* | The New Yorker




Such repressed anger. Well okay, maybe not all that repressed.  It is ironic that FeXL feels he/she can preach about forum decorum when he/she is probably the biggest violator here. That ****e don't fly on other forums.


----------



## FUXL

Freddie_Biff said:


> Such repressed anger. Well okay, maybe not all that repressed.  It is ironic that FeXL feels he/she can preach about forum decorum when he/she is probably the biggest violator here. That ****e don't fly on other forums.


I wonder if he practices Bannon-yoga? What an athhole.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Such repressed anger. Well okay, maybe not all that repressed.  It is ironic that FeXL feels he/she can preach about forum decorum when he/she is probably the biggest violator here. That ****e don't fly on other forums.


I would tie you and FeXL at number one. However, FeXL only points out your usage because you go on interim deathbed conversions where your forswear swearing. I've never heard him speak out on decorum otherwise, so no hypocrisy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FUXL said:


> I wonder if he practices Bannon-yoga? What an athhole.



I dislike all yoga. Too sour.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would tie you and FeXL at number one. However, FeXL only points out your usage because you go on interim deathbed conversions where your forswear swearing. I've never heard him speak out on decorum otherwise, so no hypocrisy.




Okay, I admit you have a point there. No more interim deathbed conversions for me! Fukc that ****e!


----------



## Dr.G.

Gen. John Kelly is now the new Chief of Staff. Reince Priebus is now OUT.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Gen. John Kelly is now the new Chief of Staff. Reince Priebus is now OUT.


Unfortunate as Priebus was a driving force behind dumping Citizen based taxation and all the accompanying F(u)BAR forms.


----------



## Macfury

Priebus was supposed to be Trump's ally in convincing RINOs to fall in line and he's failed miserably at that. Trump was warned even before the election that Priebus was not his pal.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Gen. John Kelly is now the new Chief of Staff. Reince Priebus is now OUT.




They should have the Oompa Loompas do a little sing and dance each time someone new leaves the White House.


----------



## SINC

Yep, pretty much.


----------



## Macfury

May as well have put Obama in the bottom picture as well then. He was a massive liar, just smoother.


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting that no-one picked up on McCain voting to kill the latest attempt to repeal Obamacare.


----------



## SINC

An interesting observation:

Journalist Who Reported New Clinton Leaks Found Dead In Tractor Trailer


----------



## CubaMark

Trump. Does he remember anything he ever tweeted?










*um...what?*


----------



## Macfury

CM, your narrow vision seems only to rest on Trump. You seem to have no concept of identical Democrat posturing.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> An interesting observation:
> 
> Journalist Who Reported New Clinton Leaks Found Dead In Tractor Trailer


Don.... haven't I suggested you stop using FeXL's sources? I mean... holy cow, man!

_Now, the journalist who first reported on this bombshell story, Juan Perez-Hilton of Los Angeles, California has been found among a pile of bodies discovered in a tractor trailer in a San Antonio, Texas Walmart parking lot on Sunday.

At least 38 people were discovered in the sweltering trailer, including numerous children, who were reportedly being imported to America as part of a human trafficking operation. Eight were pronounced dead at the scene. Perez-Hilton was the only American in the vehicle, and was among the dead.

Police have not released many details yet, but an officer close to the investigation says the “school-aged children,” two of whom died, were being moved to a “child sex slave operation” in Hillary Clinton’s hometown of New York City.

It is unclear as of yet if Hillary Clinton was involved directly, but it is suspicious that a reporter whose dedication to journalism may land her behind bars was found among bodies in a vehicle that was being used to transport children to a sex slave ring._​
:lmao: :yikes:    :lmao:

*Did you scroll down to the bottom of that page to see the Disclaimer?*

*ABOUT OUR LAND OF THE FREE

We believe in the right to be free. No matter what, the freedom to do what we want, say what we want and publish what we want comes first.
Therefore we make no guarantee that what you read here is true. In fact, it most definitely is not.
Our Land Of The Free is here to entertain you with the kind of whimsical satire conservatives enjoy.








*​


----------



## SINC

SINC said:


> An interesting observation:
> 
> Journalist Who Reported New Clinton Leaks Found Dead In Tractor Trailer





CubaMark said:


> Don.... haven't I suggested you stop using FeXL's sources? I mean... holy cow, man!


I guess you missed my comment with the link? Food for thought that brings one to consider her overall behaviour is my point. Usually where there is smoke there is fire, especially with Hillary. It's part of why she was not elected, ya know.


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from Fox News --- Breaking News : Pres. Trump just signed an executive order banning rational people from serving in the White House. 

Maybe Gen. Kelly might be out of a job even before he takes over as Chief of Staff. Kelly Ann Conway might be next in line for the CoS position. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Don.... haven't I suggested you stop using FeXL's sources? I mean... holy cow, man!
> 
> 
> 
> _Now, the journalist who first reported on this bombshell story, Juan Perez-Hilton of Los Angeles, California has been found among a pile of bodies discovered in a tractor trailer in a San Antonio, Texas Walmart parking lot on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 38 people were discovered in the sweltering trailer, including numerous children, who were reportedly being imported to America as part of a human trafficking operation. Eight were pronounced dead at the scene. Perez-Hilton was the only American in the vehicle, and was among the dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Police have not released many details yet, but an officer close to the investigation says the “school-aged children,” two of whom died, were being moved to a “child sex slave operation” in Hillary Clinton’s hometown of New York City.
> 
> 
> 
> It is unclear as of yet if Hillary Clinton was involved directly, but it is suspicious that a reporter whose dedication to journalism may land her behind bars was found among bodies in a vehicle that was being used to transport children to a sex slave ring._​
> 
> 
> :lmao: :yikes:    :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Did you scroll down to the bottom of that page to see the Disclaimer?*
> 
> 
> 
> *ABOUT OUR LAND OF THE FREE
> 
> 
> 
> We believe in the right to be free. No matter what, the freedom to do what we want, say what we want and publish what we want comes first.
> 
> Therefore we make no guarantee that what you read here is true. In fact, it most definitely is not.
> 
> Our Land Of The Free is here to entertain you with the kind of whimsical satire conservatives enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​




Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory! Better get your tin foil hat ready—they could be coming for you next.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I guess you missed my comment with the link? Food for thought that brings one to consider her overall behaviour is my point. Usually where there is smoke there is fire, especially with Hillary. It's part of why she was not elected, ya know.




Oh. My. God. You're going to defend your use of a blatantly false article because it makes you think? Better check those ulterior motives, buddy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> This just in from Fox News --- Breaking News : Pres. Trump just signed an executive order banning rational people from serving in the White House.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Gen. Kelly might be out of a job even before he takes over as Chief of Staff. Kelly Ann Conway might be next in line for the CoS position. We shall see.




The Oompa Loompas should come and do a little song and dance each time another White House staffer is fired. 

"Tantrum Spicer, Tantrum Spicer 
He could have made friends
If he has just been nicer"


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Oompa Loompas should come and do a little song and dance each time another White House staffer is fired.
> 
> "Tantrum Spicer, Tantrum Spicer
> He could have made friends
> If he has just been nicer"


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> I guess you missed my comment with the link? Food for thought that brings one to consider her overall behaviour is my point. Usually where there is smoke there is fire, especially with Hillary. It's part of why she was not elected, ya know.


No, I saw the comment "An interesting observation..." - I can't begin to understand how that comment informs the reader that the article you posted is satire.

Hillary is doubtless dirty as all get out. I'd be pleased to see her behind bars for any actual crimes she may have committed. But citing Fake News that "makes you think" isn't the way to rally folks to the cause.


----------



## Macfury

I think we can all agree that Hillary belongs in jail!



CubaMark said:


> No, I saw the comment "An interesting observation..." - I can't begin to understand how that comment informs the reader that the article you posted is satire.
> 
> Hillary is doubtless dirty as all get out. I'd be pleased to see her behind bars for any actual crimes she may have committed. But citing Fake News that "makes you think" isn't the way to rally folks to the cause.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think we can all agree that Hillary belongs in jail!




I think we can all agree that they are many who belong in jail way ahead of her, starting with 45, aka Donald J Trump. He should be jailed for not honouring the contracts he hired people for to begin with.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think we can all agree that they are many who belong in jail way ahead of her, starting with 45, aka Donald J Trump. He should be jailed for not honouring the contracts he hired people for to begin with.


I think teachers should be jailed every time a student fails to achieve basic literacy levels--where's that social contract!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think teachers should be jailed every time a student fails to achieve basic literacy levels--where's that social contract!




Yeah, you would believe that. No responsibility on the parents or, God forbid, the kid themselves.


----------



## Macfury

Why can't Suzie read? It's that rotten Suzie!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think teachers should be jailed every time a student fails to achieve basic literacy levels--where's that social contract!


Well, I guess I should be in jail. I taught grade six .............. 36 students of which 6 read on or above expected grade level. Of the remaining 30, one boy, Bobby Ray, was a non reader who was able to read about a dozen words at the onset of the school year. By the end of the school year with me, he was able to read at a grade three level, still 3-4 full years below expected grade level. Neither of his parents could read, and they did not value reading or school. Still, I told him at the end of the school year that he should be proud of all he accomplished. Thus, while I made some progress with him, and he achieved great progress, should I still be jailed?

Mon ami, you have a great deal to learn about the process of learning to read/write effectively, and the importance of self-motivation of the student, the teacher and the home environment. Paix.


----------



## Macfury

Community service for you, Dr. G.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, I guess I should be in jail. I taught grade six .............. 36 students of which 6 read on or above expected grade level. Of the remaining 30, one boy, Bobby Ray, was a non reader who was able to read about a dozen words at the onset of the school year. By the end of the school year with me, he was able to read at a grade three level, still 3-4 full years below expected grade level. Neither of his parents could read, and they did not value reading or school. Still, I told him at the end of the school year that he should be proud of all he accomplished. Thus, while I made some progress with him, and he achieved great progress, should I still be jailed?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Community service for you, Dr. G.


Merci, mon ami. Still, you have a lot to learn about teaching and learning literacy. Re-education Camp 101 for you. Bonne chance. Paix.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Merci, mon ami. Still, you have a lot to learn about teaching and learning literacy. Re-education Camp 101 for you. Bonne chance. Paix.


I agree Dr. G. Education is a community endeavour. If it is not valued within a student's direct community he or she will not succeed. I once asked one of my adult students how much English do they speak at home....the answer....none. I told them they might as well leave the class as they will never learn the language. It isn't so much the "you gotta wanna" as it is "you gotta needda". If no one in the student's world values the learning they won't learn.


----------



## Macfury

All of you to jail, then!


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I agree Dr. G. Education is a community endeavour. If it is not valued within a student's direct community he or she will not succeed. I once asked one of my adult students how much English do they speak at home....the answer....none. I told them they might as well leave the class as they will never learn the language. It isn't so much the "you gotta wanna" as it is "you gotta needda". If no one in the student's world values the learning they won't learn.


Very true, mon ami. I have been teaching students at various levels since the Fall of 1970. This sort of motivation applies to ALL students. "It take a village...."


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> All of you to jail, then!


"Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage." You can lock us all up, but how to you imprison an idea that educating children is NOT an easy task and certain factors are out of the control of any and all teachers. Of course, putting the likes of me, Rp, Frank, Sinc's daughter, et al into prison would bring down the education budgets of various provinces .............. with the end result even being worse than if public education was supported. Try being a teacher for a year or so before you condemn us for not being successful with every student.


----------



## Macfury

I think SINC's daughter has had a 100% success rate with her students, so just you three so far.



Dr.G. said:


> "Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage." You can lock us all up, but how to you imprison an idea that educating children is NOT an easy task and certain factors are out of the control of any and all teachers. Of course, putting the likes of me, Rp, Frank, Sinc's daughter, et al into prison would bring down the education budgets of various provinces .............. with the end result even being worse than if public education was supported. Try being a teacher for a year or so before you condemn us for not being successful with every student.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I think SINC's daughter has had a 100% success rate with her students, so just you three so far.


Well, if true, then good for her. The only totally successful teachers that I know of are all in private schools, which do NOT accept any student reading below the expected grade level. These students are reading above expected grade level, and even if they stagnate for an entire year, they are ending the school year reading above expected grade level. So, they are free from your prisons.

Public school teachers do not have the same advantage. They have to work with whomever comes into their classroom in the Fall and do their best to help each student achieve her or his potential.

So, as I have said before, before you lock us up, try doing this with an average classroom for a year. Then, you will either be changing your tune ........... or else sharing a cell with the rest of us who are hard working and dedicated teachers. Not all teachers are effective or hard working, but I feel that the majority are and they make easy targets for people like you who have never taught before in a real-life classroom situation. 

Not sure if you want to put in a year or two studying to be a classroom teacher, but before you do so, please don't cast stones at those who have chosen the teaching profession.

For the record -- While I am not able to go back into the regular classroom in a K-12 school, I have volunteered my services in the next school year as a literacy specialist on a pro bono basis with a local K-9 school here in Lunenburg, to assess and work with students with literacy learning problems to ease the work load of the regular classroom teachers in this school.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, I guess I should be in jail. I taught grade six .............. 36 students of which 6 read on or above expected grade level. Of the remaining 30, one boy, Bobby Ray, was a non reader who was able to read about a dozen words at the onset of the school year. By the end of the school year with me, he was able to read at a grade three level, still 3-4 full years below expected grade level. Neither of his parents could read, and they did not value reading or school. Still, I told him at the end of the school year that he should be proud of all he accomplished. Thus, while I made some progress with him, and he achieved great progress, should I still be jailed?
> 
> 
> 
> Mon ami, you have a great deal to learn about the process of learning to read/write effectively, and the importance of self-motivation of the student, the teacher and the home environment. Paix.




This. ^^^^^


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Well, if true, then good for her. The only totally successful teachers that I know of are all in private schools, which do NOT accept any student reading below the expected grade level. These students are reading above expected grade level, and even if they stagnate for an entire year, they are ending the school year reading above expected grade level. So, they are free from your prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> Public school teachers do not have the same advantage. They have to work with whomever comes into their classroom in the Fall and do their best to help each student achieve her or his potential.
> 
> 
> 
> So, as I have said before, before you lock us up, try doing this with an average classroom for a year. Then, you will either be changing your tune ........... or else sharing a cell with the rest of us who are hard working and dedicated teachers. Not all teachers are effective or hard working, but I feel that the majority are and they make easy targets for people like you who have never taught before in a real-life classroom situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you want to put in a year or two studying to be a classroom teacher, but before you do so, please don't cast stones at those who have chosen the teaching profession.
> 
> 
> 
> For the record -- While I am not able to go back into the regular classroom in a K-12 school, I have volunteered my services in the next school year as a literacy specialist on a pro bono basis with a local K-9 school here in Lunenburg, to assess and work with students with literacy learning problems to ease the work load of the regular classroom teachers in this school.




I agree you with you, Dr. G: MacFury could certainly benefit from walking in a teacher's shoes for even just a year. However, I don't think he'd have the patience or the stomach for it.


----------



## Macfury

100 grand and two months off? I'm in!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I agree you with you, Dr. G: MacFury could certainly benefit from walking in a teacher's shoes for even just a year. However, I don't think he'd have the patience or the stomach for it.


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> 100 grand and two months off? I'm in!


Not so fast. Not sure where a new teacher with no experience and just a B.Ed. earns that as a starting salary. 

Keep in mind that you need to spend 14-24 months at some university to get this B.Ed. and then apply for a position with no experience. Of course, if you volunteer at a school that has a great many literacy problems, you become a known entity. Then, you might get some per diem subbing there and then even some long term subbing. Then, if you prove yourself as able .................... and have not dropped out of the profession due to the frustrations that everyday teachers face each day, you might get a full-time position. You may then cast stones at those teachers who are dedicated and try their best but don't have every student reading at or above expected grade level. If you are one of these teachers who have most of their students coming into a new school year with academic and emotional problems, then you will be VERY lucky not to be sent to jail or stoned, based on your suggestions.

So, it is easier to cast stones than to see what a real teacher experiences on a daily basis.


----------



## Macfury

No stoning--this is a civilized nation!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> No stoning--this is a civilized nation!


Civilized nations do not jail their teachers. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, et al, all tried this and it did not work. You may kill an individual teacher, or put him or her in jail, but there are others who will take up the cause against your unjust punishments. As I said, try teaching for a year and then tell me what your thoughts are about the teaching profession.


----------



## Dr.G.

This is what civilized nations do for their people.

LBJ Launches Medicare: ‘You Can't Treat Grandma This Way' – BillMoyers.com


----------



## Macfury

Thank goodness Trump is trying to fix the whole mess.



Dr.G. said:


> This is what civilized nations do for their people.
> 
> LBJ Launches Medicare: ‘You Can't Treat Grandma This Way' – BillMoyers.com


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Thank goodness Trump is trying to fix the whole mess.


Luckily, we live in Canada. God help millions of Americans if Trump gets his way. We shall see.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Thank goodness Trump is trying to fix the whole mess.


I can believe you said that. I can't believe that you actually think it.

:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I can believe you said that. I can't believe that you actually think it.
> 
> :lmao:


Careful, as an educator you could wind up in Macfury's prisons. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I can believe you said that. I can't believe that you actually think it.
> 
> :lmao:


True.


----------



## Macfury

RIP Karl Marx.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> RIP Karl Marx.


Franklin Roosevelt said 'the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance to those who have much; it is whether we provide enough to those who have too little.'


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Franklin Roosevelt said 'the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance to those who have much; it is whether we provide enough to those who have too little.'




Bah! All prog snowflakes are the same anyway.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Franklin Roosevelt said 'the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance to those who have much; it is whether we provide enough to those who have too little.'


"From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs."


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Bah! All prog snowflakes are the same anyway.


Maybe so. At least they have the well being of people as their central core of values. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> "From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs."


Now you have the correct author of this quote, Macfury. See, a teacher who was not imprisoned helped you to learn to read effectively and to make note of your mistakes. Good for this teacher .............. good for you. Of course, if your teachers did not have the "abilities" to help all the students in your class read at the expected grade level, I guess they "needed" to go to one of your prisons. How sad.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> 100 grand and two months off? I'm in!


Urban legend strikes again! Would rather it be an urbane legend!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Urban legend strikes again! Would rather it be an urbane legend!


That was the number that Freddie mentioned.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Urban legend strikes again! Would rather it be an urbane legend!





Macfury said:


> That was the number that Freddie mentioned.


No way, not for a teacher with no experience ............ and in your case, no B.Ed. It is easier to "talk the talk" when bad mouthing teachers than to "walk the walk" and become a teacher.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> No way, not for a teacher with no experience ............ and in your case, no B.Ed. It is easier to "talk the talk" when bad mouthing teachers than to "walk the walk" and become a teacher.


And Dr. G forgot to add that you need a specialty before you enter Teacher's College here in Ontario.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And Dr. G forgot to add that you need a specialty before you enter Teacher's College here in Ontario.


Did not know that, Rp. I guess I would have literacy as my specialty in ON, with the assessment and instruction of literacy learning problems/disabilities as my specific area of focus. Still, the point is moot in that I would be jailed for not bringing up every student to their expected grade level in reading. In that I have taught a student who were in grade ten reading at a grade one level at the onset of the school year, I still feel it is unfair that I should be jailed for trying to work with this student. He did make four years progress with my working with him one year, but I guess that still would land me in jail.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> And Dr. G forgot to add that you need a specialty before you enter Teacher's College here in Ontario.


What might be the average cost of obtaining a teaching degree in ON? People other than Macfury would have to take this into account when entering the teaching profession. Memorial University in NL has just about the lowest tuition for those entering the Faculty of Education. Here in NS, the tuition rates are about double what they are in NL. And those folks working on their education degrees at Memorial could take some of my web courses, which I would be able to teach from prison.


----------



## Rps

As this is the American Political thread, an on top comment. I live, as you know, across from Detroit and what I see is a disfunctional education system which offers education as a mere perfunctory duty.....in the years past equating to "wifely duties". They do not focus on excellence but rather consider education as an expense rather than an investment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Very true.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> As this is the American Political thread, an on top comment. I live, as you know, across from Detroit and what I see is a disfunctional education system which offers education as a mere perfunctory duty.....in the years past equating to "wifely duties". They do not focus on excellence but rather consider education as an expense rather than an investment.


Sadly, I had a former grad student who taught at Wayne Univ. and he would confirm this observation. Detroit is not alone in this sort of situation. With the new Sect. of Education in Trump's cabinet, I fear that things will only get worse for education throughout the US. We shall see.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> What might be the average cost of obtaining a teaching degree in ON? People other than Macfury would have to take this into account when entering the teaching profession. Memorial University in NL has just about the lowest tuition for those entering the Faculty of Education. Here in NS, the tuition rates are about double what they are in NL. And those folks working on their education degrees at Memorial could take some of my web courses, which I would be able to teach from prison.


Dr G you would need about $20,000 plus your cost of living. This would be added to your first degree costs, but in reality many require a Master's level for entry. And going to O.I.S.E. , if your a lucky enough to get in, isn't cheap either.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr G you would need about $20,000 plus your cost of living. This would be added to your first degree costs, but in reality many require a Master's level for entry. And going to O.I.S.E. , if your a lucky enough to get in, isn't cheap either.


Yikes!!!! That is steep, far more than NL and more than NS. I guess living in the GTA can't be cheap either if you go to one of the universities in that region.

I also teach three grad courses online for the Fac. of Ed. at MUN, and we have a fully online Master's Degree in Literacy. Thus, I could teach these courses from prison, some teachers, who are also in prison, could also get their master's degree from Memorial's Fac. of Education. 

Of course, is one able to get a teaching position in the US after being in prison? I know that you cannot obtain a teaching license in NY or GA with a prison record.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, I might be interested in the literacy programme. Would my ESL experience qualify as experience?


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, I might be interested in the literacy programme. Would my ESL experience qualify as experience?


Yes. I would give you a reference as well. Maybe Macfury can arrange it so that we share a prison cell together. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Anthony Scaramucci just resigned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

There is only one star in the Trump constellation, and Anthony Scaramucci, as WH Comm. Director, was starting to shine brighter than Pres. Trump. New Chief of Staff was not going to allow "The Mooch" to set the agenda. Looks like there is really a new sheriff in town with Gen. Kelly as CoS. We shall see.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Did not know that, Rp. I guess I would have literacy as my specialty in ON, with the assessment and instruction of literacy learning problems/disabilities as my specific area of focus. Still, the point is moot in that I would be jailed for not bringing up every student to their expected grade level in reading. In that I have taught a student who were in grade ten reading at a grade one level at the onset of the school year, I still feel it is unfair that I should be jailed for trying to work with this student. He did make four years progress with my working with him one year, but I guess that still would land me in jail.




Maybe you'd get a nicer jail at least. Like a padded cell, or once a week at the spa.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe you'd get a nicer jail at least. Like a padded cell, or once a week at the spa.


:lmao::clap::lmao: We shall see.

Frank, you too are a teacher, so maybe Rp and I can request you as a fellow cell mate? The three amigos ............................ 

I have a feeling that there won't be enough prison cells that will be needed for those imprisoned due to the edict of Judge and Jury Macfury.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That was the number that Freddie mentioned.




At top of the grid (ten years experience)with extra years of education, certainly, at least in Alberta. Certainly not the starting salary, and with less job security than many until one gets their continuous contract. But why quote me? I thought you prided yourself on doing your own independent research.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> What might be the average cost of obtaining a teaching degree in ON? People other than Macfury would have to take this into account when entering the teaching profession. Memorial University in NL has just about the lowest tuition for those entering the Faculty of Education. Here in NS, the tuition rates are about double what they are in NL. And those folks working on their education degrees at Memorial could take some of my web courses, which I would be able to teach from prison.




 ^^^^ Nailed it!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> At top of the grid (ten years experience)with extra years of education, certainly, at least in Alberta. Certainly not the starting salary, and with less job security than many until one gets their continuous contract. But why quote me? I thought you prided yourself on doing your own independent research.


Does one need a master's degree to get to the top of the scale?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> ^^^^ Nailed it!


I am still amazed at the cost of this education in ON. As well, I hear that it is not easy to get into some universities in ON that offer B.Ed. degrees.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Anthony Scaramucci just resigned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


_...resigned!!!! _ *LOL*

:lmao:    :lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _...resigned!!!! _ *LOL*
> 
> :lmao:    :lmao:


:clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Does one need a master's degree to get to the top of the scale?




Not a degree, necessarily, but each complete extra year of education gets you an another grid. Max is six years in Alberta, with or without a master's.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not a degree, necessarily, but each complete extra year of education gets you an another grid. Max is six years in Alberta, with or without a master's.


Interesting. In NL, you need a master's degree and 12 years of experience to get to the top of the pay scale.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting. In NL, you need a master's degree and 12 years of experience to get to the top of the pay scale.



And what's top pay level for those kind of qualifications?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> And what's top pay level for those kind of qualifications?


$87,800

In NY State, all state-residents will be getting university tuition paid for by the state taxpayers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> $87,800
> 
> 
> 
> In NY State, all state-residents will be getting university tuition paid for by the state taxpayers.



Having tuition paid for would be a huge bonus. It's gotta be about 10 K a year now, so min 40 K for a bachelor's degree. Alberta's top end would appear to be about 10 K higher than NL, but still in the ballpark.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Having tuition paid for would be a huge bonus. It's gotta be about 10 K a year now, so min 40 K for a bachelor's degree. Alberta's top end would appear to be about 10 K higher than NL, but still in the ballpark.


Yes, university education is an investment in the future.


----------



## Dr.G.

Kushner says Trump campaign was too dysfunctional to collude

This I can believe.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-facebook/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.f7d7cb0da5bd


----------



## Macfury

I have to say that it looks like people wearing burqas.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I have to say that it looks like people wearing burqas.




And only a prog would take a second look to make sure he was not shooting his mouth off while shooting himself in the foot. Snowflake bus seats! Should be banned! Send 'em back where they came from!


----------



## Macfury

As a prog you never take a second look at the trash you post about Trump. On the other hand, as a non-prog, I would have checked the seats carefully.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And only a prog would take a second look to make sure he was not shooting his mouth off while shooting himself in the foot. Snowflake bus seats! Should be banned! Send 'em back where they came from!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I have to say that it looks like people wearing burqas.



And yet here's EXACTLY what you actually DID say. Feel the cognitive dissonance yet?


----------



## Beej

This seems like another one of those weird U.S. right-left things, versus Canadian status quo (see block grants, or federal involvement in K-12 education). I have not checked the details of the proposal, but it sounds like a point based immigration system. That is something we have had for a while, across partisan governments. Recent controversy has been about the loophole worker programs, not the concept.

CNN's Acosta, White House aide clash over immigration at briefing - Aug. 2, 2017

Maybe the proposed weightings are egregious? On principle, a points based system is a good idea. This is now controversial in the U.S?


----------



## Macfury

I could see that they were bus seats that looked like people wearing burqas. 

Have you grasped the concept of cognitive dissonance yet?--because you're firing blanks again.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet here's EXACTLY what you actually DID say. Feel the cognitive dissonance yet?


----------



## Macfury

The US progs favour only immigration that overwhelms US culture. That's why the English language requirement horrifies them.



Beej said:


> This seems like another one of those weird U.S. right-left things, versus Canadian status quo (see block grants, or federal involvement in K-12 education). I have not checked the details of the proposal, but it sounds like a point based immigration system. That is something we have had for a while, across partisan governments. Recent controversy has been about the loophole worker programs, not the concept.
> 
> CNN's Acosta, White House aide clash over immigration at briefing - Aug. 2, 2017
> 
> Maybe the proposed weightings are egregious? On principle, a points based system is a good idea. This is now controversial in the U.S?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## Macfury

I actually love what he's doing as President! Considering that you're aligned with the establishment Freddie, I understand your bias.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I actually love what he's doing as President! Considering that you're aligned with the establishment Freddie, I understand your bias.



You would love what he's doing...or more accurately, not doing, like actually governing. Considering that you're aligned with ******** everywhere, I understand your bias.


----------



## Macfury

He's pushing as hard as he can to do what's right, but establishment types in both parties are holding him back. Entrenched as you are in the status quo, I can't imagine you would want him to have greater success than he's already had.

However, the legacy of Barack Obama is already obliterated and I applaud Trump for helping to make that happen. Eight years in office, and all 43 had to show for it was an additional $10 trillion in debt, collapsing global influence and a foundering, underperforming economy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You would love what he's doing...or more accurately, not doing, like actually governing. Considering that you're aligned with ******** everywhere, I understand your bias.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He's pushing as hard as he can to do what's right, but establishment types in both parties are holding him back. Entrenched as you are in the status quo, I can't imagine you would want him to have greater success than he's already had.
> 
> 
> 
> However, the legacy of Barack Obama is already obliterated and I applaud Trump for helping to make that happen. Eight years in office, and all 43 had to show for it was an additional $10 trillion in debt, collapsing global influence and a foundering, underperforming economy.




Ummm.....not to nitpick, but 43 was George W. Bush.


----------



## Macfury

Obama was 43rd person to be president.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm.....not to nitpick, but 43 was George W. Bush.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Obama was 43rd person to be president.


A quick google search says it was George W. Bush


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm.....not to nitpick, but 43 was George W. Bush.





wonderings said:


> A quick google search says it was George W. Bush


Actually Macfury is indeed correct when he says Obama was the 43rd person to hold the office. Note that he did not say Obama was the 43rd president, He was the 44th.

Need proof?



> One of Washington's top tourist attractions -- Madame Tussauds wax museum -- has a new exhibit giving patrons a chance to "meet all 44 U.S. presidents."
> 
> Just one problem.
> 
> Only 43 men have actually been president.
> 
> While it's true that Barack Obama is the 44th president of the United States, he is in fact only the 43rd person to hold the job -- thanks to Grover Cleveland, who had two separate terms.


Obama -- 44th president, 43rd man to hold the job


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> Actually Macfury is indeed correct when he says Obama was the 43rd person to hold the office. Note that he did not say Obama was the 43rd president, He was the 44th.
> 
> Need proof?
> 
> 
> 
> Obama -- 44th president, 43rd man to hold the job


Well then I stand corrected about my correcting! Very interesting!


----------



## Dr.G.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The White House on Wednesday accused an elderly French woman of spreading pro-immigration propaganda that undermined “everything this country stands for.”

Stephen Miller, Donald J. Trump’s senior adviser for policy, made the explosive allegations, calling the French woman “the most dangerous woman in America.”

“Bringing this incendiary propaganda to our shores was a subversive act on her part,” Miller said. “She did not have it when she first came here.”

Miller added that whether the French woman would be eligible to remain in the U.S. under the Republicans’ new immigration proposal was “something we are looking into,” noting that the woman did not appear to speak English and that holding a torch in the air was not a skill.

White House Accuses French Woman of Spreading Pro-Immigration Propaganda | The New Yorker


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Well then I stand corrected about my correcting! Very interesting!




Don't bother. Macfury, who refuses to admit he could ever be wrong, didn't say "the 43rd person to become President." He said 43, in the same way that people call Trump 45. Macfury is wrong again, though he'll never admit it.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't bother. Macfury, who refuses to admit he could ever be wrong, didn't say "the 43rd person to become President." He said 43, in the same way that people call Trump 45. Macfury is wrong again, though he'll never admit it.


Here is the exact quote:



Macfury said:


> He's pushing as hard as he can to do what's right, but establishment types in both parties are holding him back. Entrenched as you are in the status quo, I can't imagine you would want him to have greater success than he's already had.
> 
> However, the legacy of Barack Obama is already obliterated and I applaud Trump for helping to make that happen. Eight years in office, *and all 43 had to show for it* was an additional $10 trillion in debt, collapsing global influence and a foundering, underperforming economy.


Macfury was clearly using the correct terminology. Just because you cannot understand how it is used makes you as wrong as you claim Macfury is.

"All 43" clearly refers to the 43 who have held the office.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't bother. Macfury, who refuses to admit he could ever be wrong, didn't say "the 43rd person to become President." He said 43, in the same way that people call Trump 45. Macfury is wrong again, though he'll never admit it.


It's an historical trivia trap I used to play on my students when I taught social studies at a high school. Grover Cleveland ................ one man, but elected as the 22nd and 24th president. 

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Here is the exact quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macfury was clearly using the correct terminology. Just because you cannot understand how it is used makes you as wrong as you claim Macfury is.




You just proved yourself wrong. Common parlance is to use the number to refer to the term of presidency, not the person who holds the office. According to your logic, everyone who refers to 45 (and there are millions) is referring to a President that doesn't exist yet. Will you be correcting all of them? Or would it be simpler to admit you are wrong? 

Game, set, match.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> It's an historical trivia trap I used to play on my students when I taught social studies at a high school. Grover Cleveland ................ one man, but elected as the 22nd and 24th president.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mon ami.




Exactly. GC was both 22 and 24, just as Trump is 45, Obama was 44, and Bush Jr. Was 43. But maybe Macfury and SINC are correct and all the history books and the rest of the people in the world are wrong. Let's see what FeXL has to say.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You just proved yourself wrong. Common parlance is to use the number to refer to the term of presidency, not the person who holds the office. According to your logic, everyone who refers to 45 (and there are millions) is referring to a President that doesn't exist yet. Will you be correcting all of them? Or would it be simpler to admit you are wrong?
> 
> Game, set, match.


Maybe they are the millions that illegally voted for Clinton ........... thus denying Trump the majority of voters?

An invisible president? An interesting concept.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Maybe they are the millions that illegally voted for Clinton ........... thus denying Trump the majority of voters?
> 
> 
> 
> An invisible president? An interesting concept.



Hahahaha! ^^^^^  

It's the good old "invisible hand" economic theory...and it works for voters too!


----------



## Macfury

I'm correct. 

Use whatever system you want in your own posts. Doesn't bother me.




Freddie_Biff said:


> You just proved yourself wrong. Common parlance is to use the number to refer to the term of presidency, not the person who holds the office. According to your logic, everyone who refers to 45 (and there are millions) is referring to a President that doesn't exist yet. Will you be correcting all of them? Or would it be simpler to admit you are wrong?
> 
> Game, set, match.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You just proved yourself wrong. Common parlance is to use the number to refer to the term of presidency, not the person who holds the office. According to your logic, everyone who refers to 45 (and there are millions) is referring to a President that doesn't exist yet. Will you be correcting all of them? Or would it be simpler to admit you are wrong?
> 
> Game, set, match.


Good grief. And you teach? Not a clue what "all 43" means?


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Maybe they are the millions that illegally voted for Clinton ........... thus denying Trump the majority of voters?
> 
> An invisible president? An interesting concept.


Some might argue that they have had an invisible president already.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Some might argue that they have had an invisible president already.


:clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Use whatever system you want in your own posts. Doesn't bother me.



Do try to stay consistent with the rest of the world, Macfury. It's less confusing that way. 43 was George W Bush, unless you believe 45 doesn't exist yet.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Good grief. And you teach? Not a clue what "all 43" means?




In this context "all" means the same as "the only thing," as in the "the only thing 43 had to show for it..." Read carefully. Don't correct a teacher if you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## SINC

I guess this falls into the logic of your 40% cut in pay. *shakes head*


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> I guess this falls into the logic of your 40% cut in pay. *shakes head*


I sincerely hope his subject is not Math. That would be an incredible disservice to his victims. Ooops did I mean to say students? Witness his complete inability to comprehend that a 2mm annual sea-level rise cannot possibly produce a 4 meter increase in sea level after one century.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I sincerely hope his subject is not Math. That would be an incredible disservice to his victims. Ooops did I mean to say students? Witness his complete inability to comprehend that a 2mm annual sea-level rise cannot possibly produce a 4 meter increase in sea level after one century.



You're being an ass, eMacMan, just like Don is. And an obstinate one at that. "His" math skills are just fine, although yours are suspect. The standard method for labelling the Presidency is by term served. Since a term in modern times has an eight year limit, and most Presidents are not re-elected after an absence, individuals are not normally recounted except for 22 and 24, as noted above. I'm sure you can convince the rest of the world that labelling Trump as 45 is all a big misunderstanding and you're here to set the record straight. 

And Don, you're a coward at heart. But good luck with that.


----------



## Macfury

Man, the stink of flop sweat is all over your post, Freddie.


----------



## Dr.G.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The special counsel, Robert Mueller, just called Donald Trump to tell the President that he was “the most innocent person ever,” Trump told reporters on Thursday.

“It was the middle of the afternoon, and he just picked up the phone to say how innocent I was,” Trump said. “He said I was the most innocent person he’d ever come across, and maybe in history.”

Trump Says Mueller Just Called Him and Said He's the Most Innocent Person Ever | The New Yorker

Well, this brings the issue to a close. No more "red lines" crossed.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You're being an ass, eMacMan, just like Don is. And an obstinate one at that. "His" math skills are just fine, although yours are suspect. The standard method for labelling the Presidency is by term served. Since a term in modern times has an eight year limit, and most Presidents are not re-elected after an absence, individuals are not normally recounted except for 22 and 24, as noted above. I'm sure you can convince the rest of the world that labelling Trump as 45 is all a big misunderstanding and you're here to set the record straight.
> 
> And Don, you're a coward at heart. But good luck with that.


Let me see you buy into Rachel's Carbon Tax but try to defend yourself by name calling? Here's some fairly simple math for you.

Rachel's Carbon Tax = Believing the Goreacles 4 Meter sea level rise in 100 years claim 
Therefore you believe .002 x 100 = 4 

Would love to see how your beloved common core math arrives at that twisted result, but hey if you can pimp the 40% pay cut, why worry about a discrepancy which exceeds an entire order of magnitude?

NOTE-1: If you do not believe the Great Goreacle, then the Carbon tax is pure insanity, whose only purposes are to create inflation and funnel cash to the Great Gore, and assorted Rothschildren and Rockefellers. Yep Rachel is leveraging her tax to create even more debt, lower the Alberta Credit Rating and greatly increase the cost of debt servicing. The big beneficiaries are the weasels named above.

NOTE-2: .002 Meters/Year is the historic sea level increase from 1900 to 2000. From 2000 to 2010 increases are actually less ~.001M/Yr. There is no reliable data possible post 2010. NASA claims .003, whereas those using running tidal gauge averages claim a value very close to zero. It is quite possible both sides are skewing numbers post 2000 which probably means the .002 is as good a guess as possible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Let me see you buy into Rachel's Carbon Tax but try to defend yourself by name calling? Here's some fairly simple math for you.
> 
> Rachel's Carbon Tax = Believing the Goreacles 4 Meter sea level rise in 100 years claim
> Therefore you believe .002 x 100 = 4
> 
> Would love to see how your beloved common core math arrives at that twisted result, but hey if you can pimp the 40% pay cut, why worry about a discrepancy which exceeds an entire order of magnitude?
> 
> NOTE-1: If you do not believe the Great Goreacle, then the Carbon tax is pure insanity, whose only purposes are to create inflation and funnel cash to the Great Gore, and assorted Rothschildren and Rockefellers. Yep Rachel is leveraging her tax to create even more debt, lower the Alberta Credit Rating and greatly increase the cost of debt servicing. The big beneficiaries are the weasels named above.
> 
> NOTE-2: .002 Meters/Year is the historic sea level increase from 1900 to 2000. From 2000 to 2010 increases are actually less ~.001M/Yr. There is no reliable data possible post 2010. NASA claims .003, whereas those using running tidal gauge averages claim a value very close to zero. It is quite possible both sides are skewing numbers post 2000 which probably means the .002 is as good a guess as possible.




What are you talking about? When did I mention anything about the carbon tax? We were talking about whether or not Trump is the 45th President of the US, making Obama 44 Bush Jr. 43. Your twisting of logic defies explanation.


----------



## Macfury

It's all part of your deeply illogical pattern, Freddie.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The special counsel, Robert Mueller, just called Donald Trump to tell the President that he was “the most innocent person ever,” Trump told reporters on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> “It was the middle of the afternoon, and he just picked up the phone to say how innocent I was,” Trump said. “He said I was the most innocent person he’d ever come across, and maybe in history.”
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Says Mueller Just Called Him and Said Heâ€s the Most Innocent Person Ever | The New Yorker
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this brings the issue to a close. No more "red lines" crossed.



No doubt. Trump said it; therefore it must be true. So let it be written, so let it be done.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> What are you talking about? When did I mention anything about the carbon tax? We were talking about whether or not Trump is the 45th President of the US, making Obama 44 Bush Jr. 43. Your twisting of logic defies explanation.


Hate to have to remind you but you have consistently and passionately defended Rachel and the carbon tax. This despite the math being a classic fail, as illustrated here: http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-1460.html#post2526954.

FWIW Whether it's 44 or 45 all hangs on a long past ruling by the State Department. That makes about as much sense as giving Barry a Nobel Peace Prize or allowing you to teach math. Not worth tossing around pointless insults whatever your view.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Hate to have to remind you but you have consistently and passionately defended Rachel and the carbon tax. This despite the math being a classic fail, as illustrated here: http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-1460.html#post2526954.
> 
> FWIW Whether it's 44 or 45 all hangs on a long past ruling by the State Department. That makes about as much sense as giving Barry a Nobel Peace Prize or allowing you to teach math. Not worth tossing around pointless insults whatever your view.




Buddy, to state the obvious, this is the American Political Thread. You're playing in the wrong playground.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> No doubt. Trump said it; therefore it must be true. So let it be written, so let it be done.


True. Now, the Trump administration can focus on more important matters, such as The Wall. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Buddy, to state the obvious, this is the American Political Thread. You're playing in the wrong playground.


Not sure why gathering evidence of your feeble Math skills should be restricted to the American Political thread. Nor do I see any reason you should be the one to make the call. 

Good luck trying to make that work.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Not sure why gathering evidence of your feeble Math skills should be restricted to the American Political thread. Nor do I see any reason you should be the one to make the call.
> 
> Good luck trying to make that work.




Okay, I think I'm done with you. You really don't brighten my day. No offense.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

See? 45th, not 44th. If everyone in the community calls it a tangerine but you want to cal it a coconut, who's right?


----------



## Macfury

Well, there's your proof eMacMan--a meme! LOL!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Well, there's your proof eMacMan--a meme! LOL!




And the fact that millions of people in the civilized world refer to him as 45. NO ONE refers to him as 44—except you. Consider common usage when marking your outrageous claims.


----------



## Rps

Okay, enough of the silly buggers. The Government of The United States of America lists Donald Trump as the 45th President of The United States. The fact that is the 44th person to do so is irrelevant.


----------



## Macfury

Keep going Freddie! I'll stop in from time to time to watch you dance!

(That Bill Murray "quote" is just a bunch of people copying a meme.)



Freddie_Biff said:


> And the fact that millions of people in the civilized world refer to him as 45. NO ONE refers to him as 44—except you. Consider common usage when marking your outrageous claims.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Okay, enough of the silly buggers. The Government of The United States of America lists Donald Trump as the 45th President of The United States. The fact that is the 44th person to do so is irrelevant.


https://www.presidentsusa.net/obama.html


> Barack Obama - 43rd President of the United States


----------



## Rps

Okay, how about this source....https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/Presidents

Again we are not talking about people here but Presidents. As can be seen only 44 people have been president but there have been 45 President....you can try and argue with the White House if you wish.


----------



## Macfury

I was talking about the person. 



Rps said:


> Okay, how about this source....https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/Presidents
> 
> Again we are not talking about people here but Presidents. As can be seen only 44 people have been president but there have been 45 President....you can try and argue with the White House if you wish.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Okay, how about this source....https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/Presidents
> 
> Again we are not talking about people here but Presidents. As can be seen only 44 people have been president but there have been 45 President....you can try and argue with the White House if you wish.


Go back and read the very first post on the subject. Macfury was clearly talking about the men who have been president, not the number of rotation of presidents.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Okay, enough of the silly buggers. The Government of The United States of America lists Donald Trump as the 45th President of The United States. The fact that is the 44th person to do so is irrelevant.



Thank you.


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Go back and read the very first post on the subject. Macfury was clearly talking about the men who have been president, not the number of rotation of presidents.


Yes I see that when I reread the post " 43 person to be..." the item on accumulative debt with the mention of 43 could be construed to a singular president. However the prior post does indeed clearly indicate the person not the position. Mea culpa.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Yes I see that when I reread the post " 43 person to be..." the item on accumulative debt with the mention of 43 could be construed to a singular president. However the prior post does indeed clearly indicate the person not the position. Mea culpa.


Yeah, too bad Freddie can't grasp something that simple. 

Either that or he can't admit a simple mistake. Nice that another teacher can, thanks.


----------



## eMacMan

This could've gone in the Canadian thread as well, but I suspect at least a few of our hardened criminals will get the boot next round.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> ...However, the legacy of Barack Obama is already obliterated and I applaud Trump for helping to make that happen. Eight years in office, and all 43 had to show for it was an additional $10 trillion in debt, collapsing global influence and a foundering, underperforming economy.


Yeah, really clear there, SINC. Rps had nothing to atone for; the mistake was yours. It is ridiculous to think the White House and the rest of the world that makes statements like, "My, 45 sure likes to golf a lot," must have it wrong. You should really check your own research sometimes. I hope you're more thorough as a journalist than you are in this forum. And Macfury, seriously? 















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

The inanity of counting Grover Cleveland twice, smacks of common core math and leaning on a State Department ruling for support is about as feeble as the phrase; "It is intuitively obvious."

Pure and simple Obama had the honor of being the 50th man to hold the office of President of the US. Yep there were seven presidents prior to George Washington, including John Hancock. Those seven were not elected as defined by the Constitution but still they were president.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> The inanity of counting Grover Cleveland twice, smacks of common core math and leaning on a State Department ruling for support is about as feeble as the phrase; "It is intuitively obvious."
> 
> Pure and simple Obama had the honor of being the 50th man to hold the office of President of the US. Yep there were seven presidents prior to George Washington, including John Hancock. Those seven were not elected as defined by the Constitution but still they were president.




Grover Cleveland WAS President twice, 22 and 24, for different terms of office. Unless of course you want to call it one term and pretend 23 didn't exist. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Perhaps you should contact the White House and get them to fix the historical records to include all 50 men who you think were President.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Grover Cleveland WAS President twice, 22 and 24, for different terms of office. Unless of course you want to call it one term and pretend 23 didn't exist. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Perhaps you should contact the White House and get them to fix the historical records to include all 50 men who you think were President.


This is a a political thread, and in political threads weasel words are critically important. The phrase I used was: "...man to hold the office of President of the US." 

Unless Grover possessed multiple personalities he was only one man and should not be counted twice. 

If you want to start with GW, who became the first president elected by the people under the terms of the freshly minted constitution, then Obama was the 43rd man to hold that office.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> This is a a political thread, and in political threads weasel words are critically important. The phrase I used was: "...man to hold the office of President of the US."
> 
> Unless Grover possessed multiple personalities he was only one man and should not be counted twice.
> 
> If you want to start with GW, who became the first president elected by the people under the terms of the freshly minted constitution, then Obama was the 43rd man to hold that office.


Yep, exactly. Even a fellow teacher got it, but not Freddie.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> This is a a political thread, and in political threads weasel words are critically important. The phrase I used was: "...man to hold the office of President of the US."
> 
> Unless Grover possessed multiple personalities he was only one man and should not be counted twice.
> 
> If you want to start with GW, who became the first president elected by the people under the terms of the freshly minted constitution, then Obama was the 43rd man to hold that office.



I'm sorry—were you the first to mention that "all 43 had to do"? I thought that was Macfury, which was what I was responding to. Did you say something before that?


----------



## Dr.G.

On this day in 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act, which sought to lift long-standing impediments against blacks that blocked them from voting in some federal, state and local elections. It was meant to put teeth into the 15th Amendment, ratified by Congress in 1870. 

LBJ signs Voting Rights Act, Aug. 6, 1965 - POLITICO


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> The inanity of counting Grover Cleveland twice, smacks of common core math and leaning on a State Department ruling for support is about as feeble as the phrase; "It is intuitively obvious."
> 
> Pure and simple Obama had the honor of being the 50th man to hold the office of President of the US. Yep there were seven presidents prior to George Washington, including John Hancock. Those seven were not elected as defined by the Constitution but still they were president.


Dr. G will probably have more on this, and I am probably wrong here but what I think you are referring to is the Continental Congress, which was not the same as being President of the United States. An excerpt follows?.

The president of Congress was, by design, a position with little authority.[21] The Continental Congress, fearful of concentrating political power in an individual, gave their presiding officer even less responsibility than the speakers in the lower houses of the colonial assemblies.[22] Unlike some colonial speakers, the president of Congress could not, for example, set the legislative agenda or make committee appointments.[23] The president could not meet privately with foreign leaders; such meetings were held with committees or the entire Congress.[24]

The presidency was a largely ceremonial position.[13][25][26] There was no salary.[27] The primary role of the office was to preside over meetings of Congress, which entailed serving as an impartial moderator during debates.[28] When Congress would resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to discuss important matters, the president would relinquish his chair to the chairman of the Committee of the Whole.[29]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Dr. G will probably have more on this, and I am probably wrong here but what I think you are referring to is the Continental Congress, which was not the same as being President of the United States. An excerpt follows?.
> 
> 
> 
> The president of Congress was, by design, a position with little authority.[21] The Continental Congress, fearful of concentrating political power in an individual, gave their presiding officer even less responsibility than the speakers in the lower houses of the colonial assemblies.[22] Unlike some colonial speakers, the president of Congress could not, for example, set the legislative agenda or make committee appointments.[23] The president could not meet privately with foreign leaders; such meetings were held with committees or the entire Congress.[24]
> 
> 
> 
> The presidency was a largely ceremonial position.[13][25][26] There was no salary.[27] The primary role of the office was to preside over meetings of Congress, which entailed serving as an impartial moderator during debates.[28] When Congress would resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to discuss important matters, the president would relinquish his chair to the chairman of the Committee of the Whole.[29]



Today's President has certainly strayed far from those humble roots. And yes, I am referring to 45, even for those who affirm he doesn't exist yet.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G will probably have more on this, and I am probably wrong here but what I think you are referring to is the Continental Congress, which was not the same as being President of the United States. An excerpt follows?.
> 
> The president of Congress was, by design, a position with little authority.[21] The Continental Congress, fearful of concentrating political power in an individual, gave their presiding officer even less responsibility than the speakers in the lower houses of the colonial assemblies.[22] Unlike some colonial speakers, the president of Congress could not, for example, set the legislative agenda or make committee appointments.[23] The president could not meet privately with foreign leaders; such meetings were held with committees or the entire Congress.[24]
> 
> The presidency was a largely ceremonial position.[13][25][26] There was no salary.[27] The primary role of the office was to preside over meetings of Congress, which entailed serving as an impartial moderator during debates.[28] When Congress would resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to discuss important matters, the president would relinquish his chair to the chairman of the Committee of the Whole.[29]


You are true, Rp. The "presidents" before Washington are part of US history trivia, which I first read about in grade school in Ripley's Believe it or Not. Still, just like each sitting of Congress gets their own number, so too does each president, which is why Grover Cleveland gets a 22 and 24 to his name. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Not a surprise.

Comey’s FBI Lied About Lynch-Clinton Meeting



> The American Center for Law and Justice has doggedly pursued information about then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s infamous tarmac meeting with former president Bill Clinton. The Department of Justice has finally responded to ACLJ’s FOIA request with a small number of documents. Several interesting points emerge from the DOJ’s emails, beginning with the fact that the FBI falsely claimed not to have any documents relating to the meeting:
> 
> _[T]he Comey FBI lied to us. Last July, we sent FOIA requests to both the Comey FBI and the Lynch DOJ asking for any documents related to the Clinton Lynch plane meeting. The FBI, under the then directorship of James Comey, replied that “No records responsive to your request were located.”
> 
> The documents we received today from the Department of Justice include several emails from the FBI to DOJ officials concerning the meeting. One with the subject line “FLAG” was correspondence between FBI officials (Richard Quinn, FBI Media/Investigative Publicity, and Michael Kortan) and DOJ officials concerning “flag[ing] a story . . . about a casual, unscheduled meeting between former president Bill Clinton and the AG.” The DOJ official instructs the FBI to “let me know if you get any questions about this” and provides “[o]ur talkers [DOJ talking points] on this”. The talking points, however are redacted._​


More:



> There are only two possibilities here: either someone at the FBI destroyed documents relating to the Bureau’s communications about the Lynch/Clinton meeting, or someone at the FBI lied in response to ACLJ’s FOIA request. Federal agencies have personnel dedicated to responding to FOIA requests, and presumably the people who carry out this relatively mundane task would not lie or destroy documents without instructions from the top.


Related:

Here Is The Alias Email Account Loretta Lynch Used As Attorney General



> Like her predecessor, Eric Holder, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch used an email alias to conduct government business, The Daily Caller has confirmed.
> 
> Several of Lynch’s emails were included in 413 pages of DOJ documents provided to the conservative groups Judicial Watch and the American Center for Law and Justice. Both groups had filed lawsuits for records regarding Lynch’s controversial meeting with President Bill Clinton at the Phoenix airport last June 27.


----------



## FeXL

Rosa Parks & Dr. King would be proud...

Maxine Waters Won’t Rule Out All-Black Party 



> California Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters wouldn’t rule out the concept of an all-black political party when asked about it on Monday.
> 
> Waters joined “The Breakfast Club” radio show on Monday morning and was asked if it was time for black people to form their own political party.


----------



## FeXL

Note: Article nearly two years old.

The US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and the results were pretty bleak



> In 2013, the US military lifted its ban on women serving in combat. Shortly after, the Marine Corps began what it calls an “unprecedented research effort” to understand the impact of gender integration on its combat forces. That took the form of a year-long experiment called the Ground Combat Element Integrated Task Force, in which 400 Marines—100 of them female—trained for combat together and then undertook a simulated deployment, with every facet of their experience measured and scrutinized.


Cutting to the chase:



> Overall, the report says, all-male teams and crews outperformed mixed-gender ones on 93 out of 134 tasks evaluated. All-male teams were universally faster “in each tactical movement.”


Now, there is a codicil noted near the end of the article & I agree with it to an extent, but it doesn't apply to all the exceptions.


----------



## FeXL

Must be because of Red Rachel's NDP policies!!!

U.S. Job Openings Surge to Record in Sign of Robust Labor Demand



> A June surge in U.S. job openings to a record indicates demand for workers remained strong at the end of the second quarter, a Labor Department report showed Tuesday.
> 
> The gain in job openings underscores the need for workers in an economy that’s continuing to expand. At the same time, the pool of qualified Americans is shrinking and making some positions tougher to fill, one reason economists expect the monthly pace of hiring will eventually cool. July figures released last week showed payrolls increased more than forecast while the unemployment rate matched a 16-year low, as Americans came off the sidelines to join the labor force and many found work.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Must be because of Red Rachel's NDP policies!!!


Carbon tax in action!


----------



## FeXL

Good. If it's the only way the SOB's will listen...

GOP Donors Respond to Obamacare Repeal Failure, Withhold Donations



> Republican donors are protesting GOP lawmakers' failure to repeal Obamacare by withholding donations to the National Republican Senatorial Committee.
> 
> At least $2 million in contributions originally promised to the NRSC have not materialized, CNN reported Tuesday.


More:



> Deason refused to host a fundraiser for Rep. Mark Meadows (R, N.C.) and Rep. Jim Jordan (R, Ohio). He further informed House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R, Calif.) his checkbook was closed.
> 
> "Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed," Deason said. "You control the Senate. You control the House. You have the presidency. There's no reason you can't get this done. Get it done and we'll open it [the ‘bank'] back up."


----------



## Dr.G.

"Fire and fury." Pres. Trump

"Fire and rain." James Taylor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3uaXCJcRrE


----------



## Rps

Just yesterday morning, they let me know that you were gone.
Pyongyang, the plans you made put an end to you.
I walked out this morning and I wrote down this song,
I just can't find anyone to twitter it to.
I've sent you fire and I've seen rain.
You've seen sunny days that you thought would never end.
You've seen lonely times when youcould not find a friend,
But I always knew that I'd never see you again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Just yesterday morning, they let me know that you were gone.
> Pyongyang, the plans you made put an end to you.
> I walked out this morning and I wrote down this song,
> I just can't find anyone to twitter it to.
> I've sent you fire and I've seen rain.
> You've seen sunny days that you thought would never end.
> You've seen lonely times when youcould not find a friend,
> But I always knew that I'd never see you again.


Are we nearing the "eve of destruction"?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




No, the _Dawn of Correction_ is at hand:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the _Dawn of Correction_ is at hand:


"No need for voting in future generations .........." Pres Trump will see to that ..... with the help of Russia.


----------



## dtaylor

Macfury said:


> No, the _Dawn of Correction_ is at hand:



To me, it feels more like McCarthyism revisited.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

dtaylor said:


> To me, it feels more like McCarthyism revisited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-goz4q1qo" title="View this video at YouTube in a new window or tab" target="_blank">YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-goz4q1qo">
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-goz4q1qo" />
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


An interesting, observation, dtaylor. I wonder what Sen. Joe McCarthy would say to the Russian influence? He was rabid to anything that had some Russian connection, be it real or imagined. I wonder if he would be anti-Trump as he was anti-Eisenhower?


----------



## Dr.G.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Offering a stunningly blunt appraisal of the North Korean leader, Jared Kushner said on Tuesday that Kim Jong-un was a “totally unqualified person” who attained his position of power only through nepotism.

“Here you have a guy who has no government experience, and he’s in charge of the whole thing,” Kushner said, in an interview with Fox News. “It’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard of.”

Kushner noted that, instead of working his way up and acquiring the skills necessary to do his job, the North Korean leader had been given huge responsibilities and power “only because of family connections.”

“There’s only one word for that,” he said. “Nepotism.”

Kushner called the notion of such an unqualified person conducting foreign policy “beyond belief.”

“I mean, why would you let someone with no experience in foreign affairs anywhere near such important decisions?” Kushner added. “Why would anyone take someone like that seriously?”

Kushner said that the people of North Korea must look at the powerful position attained by the “totally inexperienced and unqualified” Kim and shake their heads. “They’ve got to be asking themselves, ‘Who elected him?’ ” he said.

Jared Kushner Calls Kim Jong-un â€œTotally Unqualified Personâ€� Who Got Job Only Through Nepotism | The New Yorker

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

He would be pro-Democrat today, as they are imagining the Russian connection as he was in the 1950s.



Dr.G. said:


> An interesting, observation, dtaylor. I wonder what Sen. Joe McCarthy would say to the Russian influence? He was rabid to anything that had some Russian connection, be it real or imagined. I wonder if he would be anti-Trump as he was anti-Eisenhower?


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

Poll: Near majority of Americans supports Trump-backed GOP bill to reduce legal immigration over next decade



> The bill’s most popular provision was the points system. *Six in 10 (61 percent) support an immigration program that “would award points based on criteria such as education, English-language ability, and prospective salary.”* That was followed by support by 59 percent of voters for limiting the number of refugees the U.S. offers permanent residency.


Links' bold.

Like the sound of that.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, lets' talk Barry's foreign policy legacy s'more. 

Fox News: Intel Community Knew About North Korea's Miniaturized Nukes Back in 2013, But Obama -- Get This -- Got Media to Downplay the Story



> _Tuesday's bombshell Washington Post story that the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) has determined North Korea is capable of constructing miniaturized nuclear weapons that could be used as warheads for missiles – possibly ICBMs -- left out a crucial fact: DIA actually concluded this in 2013. The Post also failed to mention that the Obama administration tried to downplay and discredit this report at the time....
> 
> The Director of National Intelligence and Obama officials subsequently tried to dismiss Lamborn's disclosure by claiming the DIA assessment was an outlier that did not reflect the views of the rest of the U.S. Intelligence Community.
> 
> It was clear what Obama officials were doing in 2013. The DIA report represented inconvenient facts that threatened President Obama’s North Korea "strategic patience" policy -- a policy to do nothing about North Korea and kick this problem down the road to the next president. Obama officials tried to downplay the DIA assessment to prevent it from being used to force the president to employ a more assertive North Korea policy. _​


Way to ignore the problem, Barry!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He would be pro-Democrat today, as they are imagining the Russian connection as he was in the 1950s.


No Way!!!! He would be waving blank sheets of paper and claiming there were "reds" in the White House and the Pentagon.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> No Way!!!! He would be waving blank sheets of paper and claiming there were "reds" in the White House and the Pentagon.


That's what the Democrats are doing today.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> That's what the Democrats are doing today.


Not even close in your analysis of the "red baiting" and "naming of names", mon ami.


----------



## dtaylor

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting, observation, dtaylor. I wonder what Sen. Joe McCarthy would say to the Russian influence? He was rabid to anything that had some Russian connection, be it real or imagined. I wonder if he would be anti-Trump as he was anti-Eisenhower?



I’m sure that if an undead McCarthy was forced to walk the earth, he would secretly approve of Trump's tactics. He sure seems to be channelling old Joe, tapping into people’s xenophobia, twitter smear campaigns, and even a contemporary version of the Lavender Scare!


----------



## CubaMark

I was going to pull quotes from this article, but it should really be read in its entirety:

*Don’t worry about Pyongyang. Worry about Washington.*


----------



## Macfury

dtaylor said:


> I’m sure that if an undead McCarthy was forced to walk the earth, he would secretly approve of Trump's tactics. He sure seems to be channelling old Joe, tapping into people’s xenophobia, twitter smear campaigns, and even a contemporary version of the Lavender Scare!


Aren't the Democrats tapping into people's fear of Russia?


----------



## FeXL

That article is so sick & seriously twisted I don't even know where to begin.

The Kim's as victims? Jeezuz.

You may have plumbed a new low...



CubaMark said:


> I was going to pull quotes from this article, but it should really be read in its entirety:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

dtaylor said:


> I’m sure that if an undead McCarthy was forced to walk the earth, he would secretly approve of Trump's tactics. He sure seems to be channelling old Joe, tapping into people’s xenophobia, twitter smear campaigns, and even a contemporary version of the Lavender Scare!



You say it like it's a bad thing (LOL!). I agree with you, but there are many here among us that applaud the tactics.


----------



## Macfury

I wonder if you would know the difference between a threat and a tactic, Freddie!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You say it like it's a bad thing (LOL!). I agree with you, but there are many here among us that applaud the tactics.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I wonder if you would know the difference between a threat and a tactic, Freddie!




I wonder if you know how to make a statement without making an insult, Macfury!


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I wonder if you know how to make a statement with making an insult, Macfury!


It wasn't an insult. I phrased it carefully. For example, a little tougher application of profiling might have nabbed the 9-11 skyjackers. I wonder if you would have been railing against the tougher profiling.


----------



## FeXL

No Russkies?! :yikes:

Claim: DNC Hack Was Not a Foreign Hack, But Done In-Person By Someone With Access to the System



> _There was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system. This casts serious doubt on the initial “hack,” as alleged, that led to the very consequential publication of a large store of documents on WikiLeaks last summer._


Science? Well, in that case it must be bunk. Everybody knows the left doesn't believe in science...


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

Federal Judge Orders State Dept To Search Hillary Aides’ Accounts For Benghazi Records



> The search for State Department emails regarding the Sept. 11, 2012 Benghazi attacks received a boost this week when a federal judge ordered the agency to search the government email accounts of several Hillary Clinton aides.
> 
> Washington D.C. District Court Judge Amit Mehta, an Obama appointee, ordered State to search the accounts of Huma Abedin, Cheryl Mills and Jake Sullivan, Clinton’s top aides at the State Department, in response to a lawsuit filed by the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch.
> 
> Mehta said that the State Department did not do enough to search for all emails it has on its computer systems regarding the Benghazi attacks, which left four Americans dead.


----------



## FeXL

Good. You don't perform, you get the shoe. Just like in real life. Politicians should be no different. Enough lip service. 

Long overdue and why we need recall legislation in Canada & every province in the country. Just in case you have some spineless wimp's in the PM's office & provincial legislatures. Oh, wait...

Donald Trump Takes Aim Again at Mitch McConnell



> In brief remarks to reporters, Mr. Trump said the failure of Congress to advance a health-care bill is a "disgrace" and the president refused to answer a question about whether Mr. McConnell of Kentucky should step down as leader in the Senate.
> 
> "If he doesn't get repeal and replace done, if he doesn't get taxes done, meaning cuts and reform, and if he doesn't get a very easy one to get done -- infrastructure -- if he doesn't get that done, then you should ask me that question," Mr. Trump said about Mr. McConnell.


----------



## SINC

Takin' it to the streets.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

"We are living through a difficult and, at times, frightening period in history. The racist attacks in Charlottesville assault our values and our complacency. The arc of history may bend towards justice, but only if every generation joins the fight against racism and demagoguery. And though these deeply upsetting events are occurring in another country and many kilometres away, it is our fight too. We will stand together and win this fight."
– Rachel Notley


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Trump really should follow Notley on Twitter, eh? Get some ideas....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Trump really should follow Notley on Twitter, eh? Get some ideas....


On how to offer platitudes?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Gady "globalist" Epstein.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Trump really should follow Notley on Twitter, eh? Get some ideas....




There's a difference between an actual education and the school of (not so) hard knocks. 45 is lacking in actual education as well as any kind of toughing it out and learning on his own. A worse role model for today's there is not.


----------



## Macfury

Too bad that education is not evident in Notley's governance. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> There's a difference between an actual education and the school of (not so) hard knocks. 45 is lacking in actual education as well as any kind of toughing it out and learning on his own. A worse role model for today's there is not.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Too bad that education is not evident in Notley's governance.


And especially not with the provincial treasurer who has zero experience or education in anything even remotely finance related. But it's the NDP way, or is that whey?


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> And especially not with the provincial treasurer who has zero experience or education in anything even remotely finance related. But it's the NDP way, or is that whey?


I have always maintained that our ministers should not come from the elected party but from the best in the nation to do the job, in a province's case from the province. They should be independent and advise the parliament on action. Too many times a party storms into power but does not have the ministerial expertise in its member inventory.....and yes the NDP in Alberta and past in Ontario suffered from this, as do our Federal Liberals.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> I have always maintained that our ministers should not come from the elected party but from the best in the nation to do the job, in a province's case from the province.


That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it could work, outside of one or two exceptional ministers.

Accountability would have to occur by MPs criticizing their own ministers (voter -> MP -> minister). Such a fractious party would have difficulty competing against a unified alternative.

Or am I missing something?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Too bad that education is not evident in Notley's governance.




Ummm... you know "45" refers to Trump, not Notley, right? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

_An interesting read...._

*On the Beach 2017. “The war was over… Was it started by an accident or mistake. There was no victor…"*

Those who call themselves liberals or tendentiously “the left” are eager participants in this manipulation, and its brainwashing, which today revert to one name: Trump.

Trump is mad, a fascist, a dupe of Russia. He is also a gift for “liberal brains pickled in the formaldehyde of identity politics”, wrote Luciana Bohne memorably. The obsession with Trump the man — not Trump as a symptom and caricature of an enduring system – beckons great danger for all of us.

While they pursue their fossilised anti-Russia agendas, narcissistic media such as the Washington Post, the BBC and the Guardian suppress the essence of the most important political story of our time as they warmonger on a scale I cannot remember in my lifetime.

On 3 August, in contrast to the acreage the Guardian has given to drivel that the Russians conspired with Trump (reminiscent of the far-right smearing of John Kennedy as a “Soviet agent”), the paper buried, on page 16, news that the President of the United States was forced to sign a Congressional bill declaring economic war on Russia.

Unlike every other Trump signing, this was conducted in virtual secrecy and attached with a caveat from Trump himself that it was “clearly unconstitutional”.

A coup against the man in the White House is under way. This is not because he is an odious human being, but because he has consistently made clear he does not want war with Russia.
(John Pilger on Tony Seed's Weblog)​


----------



## SINC

^

The only "mad" person is the author of that rubbish quoted.


----------



## Macfury

Trump's signing of that document, and his reluctance to do so, was well publicized--only not televised. He noted that "parts of the bill" were unconstitutional and that he would honour the "key provisions"--however, a near-unanimous vote in Congress guaranteed a veto would have been over-ridden.



CubaMark said:


> Unlike every other Trump signing, this was conducted in virtual secrecy and attached with a caveat from Trump himself that it was “clearly unconstitutional”.


----------



## FUXL

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!

Hey Nazi supporting pigs, how do you spell T E R R O R I ST?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/...tViewed&version=Full&src=mv&WT.nav=MostViewed


----------



## SINC

Some people see the situation for what it really is.

Condoleezza Rice on Removing Civil War Monuments: 'Sanitizing History to Make You Feel Better Is a Bad Thing'


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> Some people see the situation for what it really is.
> 
> Condoleezza Rice on Removing Civil War Monuments: 'Sanitizing History to Make You Feel Better Is a Bad Thing'


I hate it when I agree with Condi, but this time she is right! 

However Don you have done the unforgivable. You have cut right through the lamestream diversion and mentioned the facts. The only reason the counter demonstrators were there at all, was to keep that very message from being heard. Sadly they were largely successful. 

How can anyone think that the same media which lied to us about Iraq, Libya, Syria and the Russian connection, would even think about telling the truth here?

We should reserve the white supremacist, Hitler worshiping, KKK, terrorist BS for those rare occasions where it is appropriate. This is not one of them.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Some people see the situation for what it really is.
> 
> Condoleezza Rice on Removing Civil War Monuments: 'Sanitizing History to Make You Feel Better Is a Bad Thing'


We're having a similar conflict in Nova Scotia, specifically Halifax, with the statue and other places/streets named for Edward Cornwallis, the first Governor of NS. Among other things, he put a bounty on the scalps of native men, women and children. In a province with a significant native population, of course, this rankles quite a few folks.

There have been calls to pull down his statue; rename streets, rallies to place a cover on his statue pending some other future action.... 

I can't speak as a member of one of the affected communities. My ancestors weren't hunted down at his behest, had their scalps cut off and presented for coin. 

My opinion on the matter is this: insofar as statues are concerned, leave 'em where they are - and build out. Build a memorial around / beside it, explaining his role in our history and why he is judged today to have been a despicable person. Just deleting him from history serves only to ensure that no-one learns of the depths at which we may accept our leaders operate.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> My opinion on the matter is this: insofar as statues are concerned, leave 'em where they are - and build out. Build a memorial around / beside it, explaining his role in our history and why he is judged today to have been a despicable person. Just deleting him from history serves only to ensure that no-one learns of the depths at which we may accept our leaders operate.


This seems like a good approach. I would add the moral and institutional context in which these choices came about (augmented reality technology could be quite useful for this). This would help people learn why individuals and institutions end up making and condoning such decisions. Time does not make us resistant to making the same decisions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

My question is simple: how can anyone defend the alt-right after the events in Charlottesville? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

It just doesn't stop.

Plaque honoring Robert E. Lee in Brooklyn to be removed Wednesday

Here are the Confederate memorials that will be removed after Charlottesville - CNN


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> This seems like a good approach. I would add the moral and institutional context in which these choices came about (augmented reality technology could be quite useful for this). This would help people learn why individuals and institutions end up making and condoning such decisions. Time does not make us resistant to making the same decisions.


If you don't, revisionist history can not be far behind.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

CM, that's complete nonsense and you know it. It's a type of crabbed thinking that helps nobody.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> CM, that's complete nonsense and you know it. It's a type of crabbed thinking that helps nobody.


How so MacFury? Not being argumentative just wondering why you think this.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> How so MacFury? Not being argumentative just wondering why you think this.


If Trump uses New York contractor language as part of their everyday speech, there are few people who actually believe that Trump would follow through with a physical beating. It's nonsense that distracts from substantive issues.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> How so MacFury? Not being argumentative just wondering why you think this.



Denial.

It is clear that if there's anything 45 has not accomplished, it's bringing the country together. The USA under 45's watch is more divided than ever. Of course, there are those who believe 45 doesn't exist yet.....


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If Trump uses New York contractor language as part of their everyday speech, there are few people who actually believe that Trump would follow through with a physical beating. It's nonsense that distracts from substantive issues.


The trouble is when the leader appears to be abusive, and you can verify that he did indeed say these things and more, it sends the wrong message. And, whether you may agree or not, the key to leadership is getting the message across.....what message do these comments convey?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> The trouble is when the leader appears to be abusive, and you can verify that he did indeed say these things and more, it sends the wrong message. And, whether you may agree or not, the key to leadership is getting the message across.....what message do these comments convey?


They convey that he's a business scrapper--not someone who lays a physical beating on competitors.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> They convey that he's a business scrapper--not someone who lays a physical beating on competitors.


MacFury, while we have agreed to disagree before this is a wildly naive comment. Leaders don't do, minions do.


----------



## Macfury

Is that why you believe President Truman would send his minions to beat up a critic fo his daughter's performance when he said:



> Some day I hope to meet you. When that happens you'll need a new nose, a lot of beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a supporter below!


Or that LBJ inspired violence because he kicked Senator Hubert Humphrey in the shin.




Rps said:


> MacFury, while we have agreed to disagree before this is a wildly naive comment. Leaders don't do, minions do.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Is that why you believe President Truman would send his minions to beat up a critic fo his daughter's performance when he said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or that LBJ inspired violence because he kicked Senator Hubert Humphrey in the shin.


I got nuthin'


----------



## FUXL

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!

Virgil, quick come see, there goes a Robert E. Lee! Put your teeth in Virgil!


----------



## Macfury

It cracks me up that you think driving a Prius makes one sophisticated--really shows your age!


----------



## Macfury

Should Canada rename anything related to Sir John A. MacDonald because he was an alcoholic? Should Toronto rename Nelson Mandela Boulevard because he was known for domestic abuse? 

Both are people with outstanding historical achievements, and many such people had feet of clay, or acted according to the spirit and morals of their times and situations.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> .....Nelson Mandela Boulevard ....was known for domestic abuse?


To be fair, the accusation was made in the context of divorce proceedings from his first wife. It was never proven nor disproven in court. Grain of salt, and all that. Mandela wasn't a perfect human being, naturally, and he may have abused his first wife... or it may have been a hollow accusation.

In any event, my position on the toppling of statues is clear.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> The trouble is when the leader appears to be abusive, and you can verify that he did indeed say these things and more, it sends the wrong message. And, whether you may agree or not, the key to leadership is getting the message across.....what message do these comments convey?



Amen, brother.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump disbands business and manufacturing councils as CEOs begin to jump ship*










U.S. President Donald Trump announced he is disbanding two advisory panels full of business executives after a number of high-profile CEOs either quit the panels or criticized his response to last weekend's tragic events in Charlottesville, Va. 

The president announced he would be ending the "Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum" in a tweet on Wednesday afternoon.

The move comes after a second day of corporate defections away from him, decisions that began after his response to violence between white supremacists and counter-protesters on Saturday was found to be lacking in its opposition to neo-Nazi groups.

On Monday Trump denounced the groups in a subdued prepared statement, before doubling down on Tuesday on his original contention that there was blame "on all sides" for the incident that killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer.

The corporate resignations began anew after that.
(CBC)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump disbands business and manufacturing councils as CEOs begin to jump ship*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump announced he is disbanding two advisory panels full of business executives after a number of high-profile CEOs either quit the panels or criticized his response to last weekend's tragic events in Charlottesville, Va.
> 
> 
> 
> The president announced he would be ending the "Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum" in a tweet on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> The move comes after a second day of corporate defections away from him, decisions that began after his response to violence between white supremacists and counter-protesters on Saturday was found to be lacking in its opposition to neo-Nazi groups.
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday Trump denounced the groups in a subdued prepared statement, before doubling down on Tuesday on his original contention that there was blame "on all sides" for the incident that killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer.
> 
> 
> 
> The corporate resignations began anew after that.
> 
> (CBC)​




Just another step on the way to tyranny. Couldn't happen to a nicer Republic, too. Well, they voted him in anyway. Less than half voted him in, mind you, but why quibble? At least he's bringing the nation together.


----------



## Macfury

When the manufacturing council is disbanded, the US moves closer to tyranny? What are you smoking tonight, Freddie?


----------



## SINC

Maybe, maybe not . . .

TRUMP‘Art of the Deal’ Co-Author Predicts Trump Will Resign Soon

https://www.liberaladvocate.com/201...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## Macfury

Looks more like a plea for attention from an otherwise invisible "prog" ghostwriter.



SINC said:


> Maybe, maybe not . . .
> 
> TRUMP‘Art of the Deal’ Co-Author Predicts Trump Will Resign Soon
> 
> https://www.liberaladvocate.com/201...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## FUXL

*How do deal with Nazis - make fun of them!*

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!! Here Nazi piggies!!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/...d&version=Full&src=me&WT.nav=MostEmailed&_r=0


----------



## Macfury

.



+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Dr.G.

Wow, if true. Guess he should not have dissed the altright/neo-Nazi/*********** group in that interview, or contradicted Pres. Trump on N Korea 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...st-say-two-people-familiar-with-the-decision/


----------



## FUXL

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!

So long bud! 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcKECTYcHRo[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

I suspect that Trump and Bannon already discussed this before his "ouster." It looks like Bannon is positioning himself for a role outside the Admin.



Dr.G. said:


> Wow, if true. Guess he should not have dissed the altright/neo-Nazi/*********** group in that interview, or contradicted Pres. Trump on N Korea
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...st-say-two-people-familiar-with-the-decision/


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I suspect that Trump and Bannon already discussed this before his "ouster." It looks like Bannon is positioning himself for a role outside the Admin.


We shall see, mon ami.


----------



## wonderings

Just announced on CNN that Bannon was fired.


----------



## Macfury

Bannon resigned two week ago. He was already set to arrive back at Breitbart.


----------



## pm-r

Macfury said:


> Bannon resigned two week ago. He was already set to arrive back at Breitbart.



huh …?????

A good reliable source for that info would help and might be interesting to have read or read now.


----------



## Macfury

Sorry!

Bannon Reportedly Resigned Two Weeks Ago | The Daily Caller



pm-r said:


> huh …?????
> 
> A good reliable source for that info would help and might be interesting to have read or read now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Sort of a Greek chorus of powerless nonentities on Twitter!


----------



## Rps

Trump is a politically dead man walking. You can stow your ideologies, you can not run a country by rants and publicly executing your advisors. He hasn't stemmed to tide of " leaks" and although the COS will have his hands full that culture has already begun to germinate. The mid terms will tell the tale. I don't see him resigning no matter what "some" might think.....he is really to dumb to get he has lost it......that is why I don't think he will recover.....he could but I don't think he will. Only a catastrophic incident will shock his administration into sync.....and I don't think we will want the incident to happen.


----------



## Macfury

Really? I think he has stemmed the leaks of all but the Obama-ites still left in civil positions. As some people have noted, this is what it looks like when you take on the Establishment and it is not pretty.


----------



## Rps

As a wise man has said, " we'll see mon ami"


----------



## pm-r

Macfury said:


> Sorry!
> 
> Bannon Reportedly Resigned Two Weeks Ago | The Daily Caller



Thanks.
Odd that he continued to warp things right up to the end, and it's a pleasure to hear he's finally out. 
Some say he should have been thrown out some time ago of course, including my wife, the most powerful and influential person I know. 


- Patrick
======


----------



## Dr.G.

pm-r said:


> Thanks.
> Odd that he continued to warp things right up to the end, and it's a pleasure to hear he's finally out.
> Some say he should have been thrown out some time ago of course, including my wife, the most powerful and influential person I know.
> 
> 
> - Patrick
> ======


:lmao::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Trump is a politically dead man walking. You can stow your ideologies, you can not run a country by rants and publicly executing your advisors. He hasn't stemmed to tide of " leaks" and although the COS will have his hands full that culture has already begun to germinate. The mid terms will tell the tale. I don't see him resigning no matter what "some" might think.....he is really to dumb to get he has lost it......that is why I don't think he will recover.....he could but I don't think he will. Only a catastrophic incident will shock his administration into sync.....and I don't think we will want the incident to happen.





Rps said:


> As a wise man has said, " we'll see mon ami"


Yes, we shall see, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## pm-r

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, we shall see, mon ami. Paix.



BTW Marc, 
Does the recent US political situation change or reinforce your mind about being a Canadian citizen more than it did before???

PS: Do you have dual citizenship??


----------



## Dr.G.

pm-r said:


> BTW Marc,
> Does the recent US political situation change or reinforce your mind about being a Canadian citizen more than it did before???
> 
> PS: Do you have dual citizenship??


Yes, I have dual citizenship, Patrick. Glad to be a Canadian. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

_Trump is losing folks left and right......_

*Op-Ed: Digital Economy Board resigns leaving Trump high-and-dry*

The Commerce Department's Digital Economy Board of Advisors resigned their positions on Friday, making this the third executive-branch advisory council of business and civic leaders to abandon the sinking ship-of-state.

The Department of Commerce established the Digital Economy Board of Advisors (DEBA) in 2016 with the express purpose of advising and providing recommendations to the Secretary of Commerce, through the Assistant Secretary, on a broad range of issues concerning the digital economy and Internet policy.

It is through the input and recommendations provided by the board's technology industry leaders, innovators, and experts, that advancements in the country's growing digital economy are made.

** * **​
The latest exodus followed the resignations of business leaders from the Strategic and Policy Forum and the American Manufacturing Council. With the addition of the resignations from the DEBA, that leaves the American Technology Council, and it is probably just a matter of time before Silicon Valley companies back away and distance themselves from the White House, says Vice.
(Digital Journal)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## pm-r

> Trump is losing folks left and right......



Do you want to add this???  

_*See the stinging masterpiece of a resignation letter the President's Arts Committee sent to Trump*_
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-the-President-s-Arts-Committee-sent-to-Trump


----------



## pm-r

I think he feels and is now saying he was not understood properly and is now trying to clarify things a bit better…


----------



## CubaMark

pm-r said:


> Do you want to add this???
> 
> _*See the stinging masterpiece of a resignation letter the President's Arts Committee sent to Trump*_
> https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-the-President-s-Arts-Committee-sent-to-Trump


Right - I saw but forgot to post that one. Thanks for doing so. Folks are finally realizing that there's no way to advise the Buffoon-in-Chief, and their personal reputations would be tarnished simply by being associated with him.

The Presidency of the USA is now a tragi-comedy. An enormous, nuclear-capable joke. Terrifying, like a train wreck you can't help yourself from watching.... XX)


----------



## Macfury

The Arts Council you say? What a blow!


----------



## FeXL

PDT is running the White House as you would a business. You produce, you get results, you've got a job tomorrow. You don't, you're gone. As it should be.

As for all the whiners that are resigning, they can't take the fact that they are no longer being succored to and their "advice" (aka agitprop) is being studiously ignored. Also as it should be.

As far as Silicon Valley is concerned, politically they're about as far away from Trump as you can get. Think he cares if they suddenly leave the fold, too? Win/win.



CubaMark said:


> Folks are finally realizing that there's no way to advise the Buffoon-in-Chief, and their personal reputations would be tarnished simply by being associated with him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Donny Johnny Trump is a failure as a leader. He does not inspire. Anyone can see that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Good thing I'm not just anyone...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anyone can see that.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Time to pin the ears back on some of the RINO's.

Steve Bannon pledges to 'go nuclear' on 'West Wing Democrats' and vows to target Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner



> Immediately after his departure on Friday he re-assumed control of Breitbart, the influential right-wing news website he steered before joining Mr Trump's campaign last year. Mr Bannon said he was "going to war for Trump," which appeared to mean the original hard line policies pursued during the campaign.


Nice.

On the list?



> On the outside Mr Bannon will target a ring of presidential advisers sometimes known as the "globalists". It includes Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, chief economic adviser Gary Cohn, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, with whom Mr Bannon appeared to have lost a battle over putting more troops in Afghanistan.
> 
> Also in the firing line are Republican leaders in Congress such as House Speaker Paul Ryan and senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Republicans who Mr Bannon blames for stalling Mr Trump's agenda, including funding for the border wall, and failing to overturn Obamacare.


You go, Steve.


----------



## Macfury

I was really uncomfortable with the crony capitalists on those councils.



FeXL said:


> PDT is running the White House as you would a business. You produce, you get results, you've got a job tomorrow. You don't, you're gone. As it should be.
> 
> As for all the whiners that are resigning, they can't take the fact that they are no longer being succored to and their "advice" (aka agitprop) is being studiously ignored. Also as it should be.
> 
> As far as Silicon Valley is concerned, politically they're about as far away from Trump as you can get. Think he cares if they suddenly leave the fold, too? Win/win.


----------



## dtaylor

From the New Yorker:



> Trump Says Sun Equally to Blame for Blocking Moon
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Attacking the media for its “very unfair” coverage of Monday’s solar eclipse, Donald J. Trump said on Saturday that the sun was equally to blame for blocking the moon.
> 
> “The fake news is covering the eclipse from the sun’s side instead of the moon’s side, but if you look at it from the moon’s side the sun is blocking the moon’s side,” he said. “There are so many sides you can’t count all the sides.”
> 
> Additionally, Trump tore into the sun itself, calling it a “showboat” for its role in the solar eclipse.
> 
> “The sun thinks the world revolves around it,” Trump said. “Sad.”
> 
> Trump said the sun was a “big problem” that his predecessor, Barack Obama, did nothing to solve, but that that situation was about to change.
> 
> “It will be handled—we handle everything,” Trump said, adding that a preëmptive military strike on the sun was “very much on the table.”


----------



## Macfury

dtaylor said:


> From the New Yorker:





> “The sun thinks the world revolves around it,” Trump said. “Sad.”






+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## SINC

Who knew?

*What Trump Did To Blacks And Jews 30 Years Ago Just Surfaced… This Changes Everything*

https://worldpoliticus.com/2016/12/...0-years-ago-just-surfaced-changes-everything/


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Who knew?


I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned Trump fact that blows yet one more Prog narrative out of the water.


----------



## FeXL

PBS, NPR Bury Their Own Poll Results on BLM, Antifa, and Confederate Statues 



> Taxpayer-funded PBS and NPR are now in the polling business with Marist College, and like the other networks, their polls are often used to support putting heat on Republicans. On Wednesday, they announced they had found a majority of Americans were disappointed with the president’s responsive to the violence in Charlottesville. PBS then ignored their own finding that 62 percent favored leaving Confederate statues in place, while only 27 percent want them removed. NPR reported it once, and then insisted that had nothing to do with Charlottesville.
> 
> Buried in the weeds: They also asked if Americans approve or disapprove of Black Lives Matter: 50 percent disapproved, and 33 percent disapproved. [CORRECTION: The original version of this article had these numbers incorrectly reversed.]
> 
> They even asked about approval of Antifa, but few had heard of them yet: Five percent approved, 24 percent disapproved, 18 percent said they had no opinion either way, and 53 percent were unsure. But if the results don't fit....you must omit?


----------



## CubaMark

*Yup.*


















(IFLS)


----------



## FeXL

Ya know what I luvs about Prog memes? The complete & utter inability to spell. If the idiots can't even do that properly, how do they expect anybody to take anything else seriously?



CubaMark said:


> Yup.


----------



## Macfury

Leave it to CM to find the "funniest site on the net." He knows all the funny places!



FeXL said:


> Ya know what I luvs about Prog memes? The complete & utter inability to spell. If the idiots can't even do that properly, how do they expect anybody to take anything else seriously?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Yup.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (IFLS)


Yup.

Trump Watches Eclipse Without Glasses, Ignores Fake News About Safety - MovieWeb


----------



## Macfury

Anyone can take a brief look at the sun--contrary to common opinion, Freddie, it does not become stronger during the eclipse.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Anyone can take a brief look at the sun--contrary to common opinion, Freddie, it does not become stronger during the eclipse.


Does it not become weaker when partially obscured?


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Does it not become weaker when partially obscured?


There is less total energy output for sure.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Does it not become weaker when partially obscured?




Actually, only when totally obscured. And right before the corona, all the sun's light becomes concentrated in a much smaller flash. But during totality (about two minutes) you could look at it with your naked eye. But that's only for complete totality.


----------



## Macfury

That's not true at all. There is far less light during a near-eclipse, tempting one to look at the sun, while its remaining infrared light attacks the retinas. You're normally protected from infrared because the sun's other light causes you to look away.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And right before the corona, all the sun's light becomes concentrated in a much smaller flash.


----------



## FeXL

Then explain why solar farms outside of totality weren't going to produce 100% of capacity.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Actually, only when totally obscured.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Then explain why solar farms outside of totality weren't going to produce 100% of capacity.



Seriously? You want to quibble about this? You and MF seriously need a life.


----------



## Macfury

No quibbling. You were presenting scientific misinformation in order to derive some sort of political reward.


----------



## FeXL

You produced bull$h!t, I produced evidence.

I win. Once again... 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Seriously? You want to quibble about this? You and MF seriously need a life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No quibbling. You were presenting scientific misinformation in order to derive some sort of political reward.




Oh FFS. I must have made a mistake. It's not worth it to argue with you, great fountain and source of all wisdom. All I know, AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA SHOULD ALSO KNOW, is that it's dangerous to look at the sun directly for more than a glance at any time because of potential retinal burn in. If you want to argue for your libertarian right to do whatever you want since they're your eyes, after all, have at 'er.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You produced bull$h!t, I produced evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> I win. Once again...




Well, by all means, go and stare down all the suns you want with your naked eye, eclipsed or not. Knock yourself out. Take an extra look for me and describe what you see. Only look away once you start to feel pain. I will err on the side of caution on this one.


----------



## FeXL

This:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Actually, only when totally obscured.


and this:



Freddie_Biff said:


> blah, blah, blah


have precisely zero, nada, to do with each other.

Nice red herring you got there...

As regards this tripe:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Only look away once you start to feel pain.


The retina senses no pain. Once again the teacher is schooled.


----------



## Rps

Since this discussion is focusing on meaningful American politics..........try this....ESPN ridiculed for pulling broadcaster Robert Lee from Virginia broadcast due to. Clearly my rum flavoured coffee this morning has too much rum in it and I'm actually reading this wrong.............nope.


----------



## Macfury

ESPN's rating have been tanking since it became an arm of the Democrat party.



Rps said:


> Since this discussion is focusing on meaningful American politics..........try this....ESPN ridiculed for pulling broadcaster Robert Lee from Virginia broadcast due to. Clearly my rum flavoured coffee this morning has too much rum in it and I'm actually reading this wrong.............nope.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> ESPN's rating have been tanking since it became an arm of the Democrat party.


I think you will find that most cable only channels are losing viewership, not just ESPN. More likely it's the NBA contract that is killing them.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I think you will find that most cable only channels are losing viewership, not just ESPN. More likely it's the NBA contract that is killing them.


They are losing viewers in major demographic areas, and many of the defectees have identified the politicization of sport as a reason to stay away. In a tide that's lowering all boats, ESPN is sinking itself faster.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They are losing viewers in major demographic areas, and many of the defectees have identified the politicization of sport as a reason to stay away. In a tide that's lowering all boats, ESPN is sinking itself faster.


This. I've posted a number of articles on how ESPN is hemorrhaging viewers faster than any network out there.

Frankly, good on 'em.


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

Missouri senator who urged Trump assassination booted from committees



> Sorry might not cut it for the Missouri lawmaker who called for President Trump’s assassination.
> 
> Missouri Senate leaders announced Tuesday that Democratic state Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal has been stripped of her committee assignments, just two days after she tried to calm the controversy with a public apology.
> 
> Meanwhile, the state’s Republican lieutenant governor, Mike Parson, on Tuesday called for the Senate to go into special session to expel Chappelle-Nadal from the body.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's foreign policy of "Ignore it. It'll go away".

Tehran says only five days needed to ramp up uranium enrichment



> Iran's atomic chief has warned that the country needs only five days to ramp up its uranium enrichment to 20 percent, a level at which the material could be used for a nuclear weapon.
> The comments by Ali Akbar Salehi to Iranian state television come as US President Donald Trump repeatedly has threatened to renegotiate or walk away from the 2015 nuclear deal.


And whose in bed with Iran? The Norks...


----------



## FeXL

One more that should hit the ground.

Hey Statue-Hating Snowflakes: Barack Obama’s Ancestors Owned Slaves



> Former President Barack Obama will have a bronze statue of his likeness revealed some time next month in Rapid City, South Dakota. It is one in a series of all former presidents mounted on street corners throughout the city...


BTW, his ears look small...

Further:



> Following the logical progression of the liberal anti-history brigade, anything and everything featuring Obama’s name must be removed and scrubbed from our minds, books, and records.


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

At least one of them has some common sense.

Alan Dershowitz Defies Democrats: I’m Against Destroying Art and Statues “We’re Not the Taliban. We’re Not Stalin”



> I’m categorically against destroying any piece of art, any statue. We’re not the Taliban. We’re not Stalin. We don’t go around just destroying statues we disagree with. Some of the people who are trying to destroy statues are trying to destroy America.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This is awesome writ large. 



Rick Kitchen said:


> The chief science advisor to the State Department has resigned, and his resignation letter spells out the word IMPEACH.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...-to-trump-impeach_us_599d9fcae4b0d97c4000a0d6







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

I guess it just looks awesome when your side is scoring so few touchdowns.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I guess it just looks awesome when your side is scoring so few touchdowns.


Trying to figger out how the resignation of a bloodsucking, overreaching bureaucrat who worked for the EPA & the Dept of Energy with renewables and is one of the idiot Progs critical of Trump's statement posting blame in Charlottesville on both sides is A Bad Thing...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I guess it just looks awesome when your side is scoring so few touchdowns.




Your side is scoring so few touchdowns? Sorry to hear that. Chin up.


----------



## FeXL

Every day... 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Chin up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Every day...




But her e-mails!!


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Every day...


Many, many Americans are regretting their choice. They now see what they got as president. Such is Life. We shall see what happens in 2020. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Many, many Americans are regretting their choice. They now see what they got as president. Such is Life. We shall see what happens in 2020. Paix, mes amis.



Be careful what you wish for, as the old saw goes.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> Since this discussion is focusing on meaningful American politics..........try this....ESPN ridiculed for pulling broadcaster Robert Lee from Virginia broadcast due to. Clearly my rum flavoured coffee this morning has too much rum in it and I'm actually reading this wrong.............nope.


We could keep pretending that identity politics is not an idiotic and, increasingly, dangerous moral panic. 

Not an accusation, just pointing out that when such public trivialities are repeatedly beholden to stupid concepts, that means important things are probably also beholden. The decision makers that matter are not immune to the panic.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Be careful what you wish for, as the old saw goes.


Be careful who you vote for is more like it these days. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

Dr.G., you read that on CNN? Or the NYT?

Many, many Americans are pleased with their choice, too.

There is always post-election regret of some sort. It's hardly a new phenomenon and, if the polls have any degree of accuracy, Trump's popularity nationwide has hardly changed since November.



Dr.G. said:


> Many, many Americans are regretting their choice.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> <snort>
> 
> Dr.G., you read that on CNN? Or the NYT?
> 
> Many, many Americans are pleased with their choice, too.
> 
> There is always post-election regret of some sort. It's hardly a new phenomenon and, if the polls have any degree of accuracy, Trump's popularity nationwide has hardly changed since November.


Respectable polls show differently, FeXL. Even Fox News is slowly turning their POV as they too see the reality of his presidency. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

In all sincerity, what the hell does it matter what some FOX News reporters think, especially in light of FOX's new management?



Dr.G. said:


> Respectable polls show differently, FeXL. Even Fox News is slowly turning their POV as they too see the reality of his presidency. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> We could keep pretending that identity politics is not an idiotic and, increasingly, dangerous moral panic.
> 
> Not an accusation, just pointing out that when such public trivialities are repeatedly beholden to stupid concepts, that means important things are probably also beholden. The decision makers that matter are not immune to the panic.


To quote Forest Gump, "stoopid is as stoopid does". The problem that I see is that people do not read the whole story and..... they selectively research ( this thread is a classic case ). With so many scanning, both with cable news style and the net, and the absence of educated review......there is little wonder. Sadly I have to agree with you. Critical thinking has been reduced to confirmation bias and how many "likes" on a Facebook page.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> <snort>
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.G., you read that on CNN? Or the NYT?
> 
> 
> 
> Many, many Americans are pleased with their choice, too.
> 
> 
> 
> There is always post-election regret of some sort. It's hardly a new phenomenon and, if the polls have any degree of accuracy, Trump's popularity nationwide has hardly changed since November.



From the polls I've seen, and there are many, Republicans in particular are losing faith in their choice of President. His disapproval ratings are about the highest of any President in history. Don't let those facts burn your fingers.


----------



## Macfury

Trump is solid with his base--which is not the subset of all Republican voters. As long as Trump is supported by the intelligent members of society with a solid plan for America, everything is good!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump is solid with his base--which is not the subset of all Republican voters. As long as Trump is supported by the intelligent members of society with a solid plan for America, everything is good!




Yes, exactly what you said. It's too bad for him all the intelligent members of society are putting their support elsewhere.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes, exactly what you said. It's too bad for him all the intelligent members of society are putting their support elsewhere.


Where are they putting it?


----------



## CubaMark

American "democracy"


----------



## Macfury

Cuban "democracy." How Cubans participated in the election:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Cuban "democracy." How Cubans participated in the election:


Congratulations. _You fail_ *Cuba 101*.

The Cuban Communist Party does not run candidates in that country's elections. It's forbidden by law from doing so.

Maybe read a book sometime?


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> American "democracy"


Cuba mark, why is this any different from Canadian results? Really the ineligible to vote figure skews the graph and is included for political bias. The did not vote is probably close to us. So if you prorate the ineligible as if it voted you get about 67% voting.


----------



## Macfury

Isn't it funny how the Communist party, despite having no official candidates, is still the supreme power following the election? 





CubaMark said:


> Congratulations. _You fail_ *Cuba 101*.
> 
> The Cuban Communist Party does not run candidates in that country's elections. It's forbidden by law from doing so.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Isn't it funny how the Communist party, despite having no official candidates, is still the supreme power following the election?


Not funny at all, if you understood the Cuban political system, it's origins and the operations of the government. But something tells me you're not really interested in all of that, you'd rather just snipe using your 'presumed knowledge' with all of its biases and misconceptions.

If you are serious, then buy the book and receive an education. I'm not here to be your personal tutor.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> American "democracy"


Not sure what the point is of this post is. Just rehashing that Hillary won the popular vote? The popular vote does not win you the Presidency, that is their system.


----------



## Dr.G.

Seems like those who voted for Jill Stein in three key battleground states in this past election, much like those who voted for Ralph Nader in Florida, swung the election to Trump, much like what happened to Bush in 2000. Such is Life.


----------



## Macfury

Just as Ross Perot swung the 1992 election to Clinton. 



Dr.G. said:


> Seems like those who voted for Jill Stein in three key battleground states in this past election, much like those who voted for Ralph Nader in Florida, swung the election to Trump, much like what happened to Bush in 2000. Such is Life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> American "democracy"




Looks a bit like a sideways peace sign.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Just as Ross Perot swung the 1992 election to Clinton.


True to a point. Perot's campaign took 18.9% of the vote, finishing second in Maine and Utah. This was noted for being the highest vote share of a third-party candidate since 1912, when TR swung the election to Wilson with Taft finishing third.


----------



## eMacMan

In plain English nearly 42% of eligible voters effectively said: None of the above! 

A very clear reflection of the (?)quality(?) of the top two candidates.

I think had the Republirats fielded anyone worthy of the position, DT would have finished out of the running. Had the Demoblunders given Hillary a well deserved boot, they would possibly have beat DT.

Had Ross Perot vaulted forward in time he would have mopped the floor with this pair.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> In plain English nearly 42% of eligible voters effectively said: None of the above!
> 
> A very clear reflection of the (?)quality(?) of the top two candidates.
> 
> I think had the Republirats fielded anyone worthy of the position, DT would have finished out of the running. Had the Demoblunders given Hillary a well deserved boot, they would possibly have beat DT.
> 
> Had Ross Perot vaulted forward in time he would have mopped the floor with this pair.


An interesting speculation, eMacMan. I still say Bernie Sanders would have been elected president had he won the nomination. Such is Life.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> But something tells me you're not really interested in all of that, you'd rather just snipe using your 'presumed knowledge' with all of its biases and misconceptions.


Great quote. Probably didn't land the way you intended to many readers.


----------



## Macfury

Yeah it is funny--appalling even. I understand the corrupt setup, right down to the "Committees to Defend the Revolution" who make sure candidates toe the Communist line during the nomination process.



CubaMark said:


> Not funny at all, if you understood the Cuban political system, it's origins and the operations of the government. But something tells me you're not really interested in all of that, you'd rather just snipe using your 'presumed knowledge' with all of its biases and misconceptions.
> 
> If you are serious, then buy the book and receive an education. I'm not here to be your personal tutor.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....toe the Communist line during the nomination process.


What is this "communist line" of which you speak? Details, please. I'm interested in knowing what you think you know.


----------



## SINC

Hmmm, some truth here?


----------



## CubaMark

_I wish I could say "*unbelievable*", but, y'know, *Trump*._

*Trump pardons controversial sheriff, Joe Arpaio, convicted of criminal contempt over racial profiling*










U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday granted a pardon to former Arizona lawman and political ally Joe Arpaio, the self-proclaimed "toughest sheriff in America," less than a month after he was convicted of criminal contempt in a case involving his department's racial profiling policy.

* * *​
The White House said the ex-sheriff of Arizona's Maricopa County was a "worthy candidate" for a presidential pardon.

* * *​
Arpaio, who became linked with Trump during the campaign for their hardline immigration views, was convicted of a misdemeanour for intentionally defying a judge's order to stop his traffic patrols that targeted immigrants. 

* * *​
Civil rights advocates slammed Trump's decision as an endorsement of racist and unlawful immigration policies.

"Once again, the president has acted in support of illegal, failed immigration enforcement practices that target people of colour and that have been struck down by the courts," said American Civil Liberties Union deputy legal director Cecilia Wang

* * *​
anita Gupta, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and former head of the U.S. Justice Department's civil rights division, said in a statement that the pardon sends "a dangerous message that a law enforcement officer who abused his position of power and defied a court order can simply be excused by a president who himself clearly does not respect the law."

Arpaio, who campaigned for Trump in 2016, was convicted on July 31 by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton, who ruled he had willfully violated a 2011 injunction barring his officers from stopping and detaining Latino motorists solely on suspicion that they were in the country illegally.
(CBC)​


----------



## Macfury

You find it "unbelievable" that Trump pardoned him over a contempt of court citation? Do you have any context for how this presidential power has been used in the past?


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Hmmm, some truth here?


:lmao::clap::lmao: Very true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Who will run against Trump and the Trumpublicans in 2020? Why not Bernie Sanders?? Let us hope. Let us pray. We shall see. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Rps

Dr. G., I saw him as a protest candidate in an election that had a paucity of viable runners. Not sure he can ever recoup the excitement.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Dr. G., I saw him as a protest candidate in an election that had a paucity of viable runners. Not sure he can ever recoup the excitement.


Many of his previous supporters now see him as a sell-out,.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G., I saw him as a protest candidate in an election that had a paucity of viable runners. Not sure he can ever recoup the excitement.


No, Rp, he was a legit candidate and had the nomination stacked against him by the DNC. Still, that is in the past. He can "recoup the excitement" once again, especially after the mess that Trump is making of the US. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Many of his previous supporters now see him as a sell-out,.


Not so. You may hope that this is the case, but if the call goes out once again, Sanders will once again lead the charge to save America from Trump. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> No, Rp, he was a legit candidate and had the nomination stacked against him by the DNC. Still, that is in the past. He can "recoup the excitement" once again, especially after the mess that Trump is making of the US. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


I see 2016 as the election that had candidates nobody wanted. Hillary was wanted by the DNC, but not the public, Trump was not wanted by the RNC but the public did, the Bern wasn't wanted by DNC either. I think he is dead in the water unless the DNC gets rid of the Super Delegates.....if you had gotten rid of those it might have been a different story.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I see 2016 as the election that had candidates nobody wanted. Hillary was wanted by the DNC, but not the public, Trump was not wanted by the RNC but the public did, the Bern wasn't wanted by DNC either. I think he is dead in the water unless the DNC gets rid of the Super Delegates.....if you had gotten rid of those it might have been a different story.


True. The super delegates put Hillary over the top. Next time, they will "feel the Bern". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G., are those the selfsame "respectable" polls that predicted a win for Bill's Wife?

Jes' askin'...



Dr.G. said:


> Respectable polls show differently, FeXL.


----------



## Macfury

I would be interested in seeing a "respectable poll" that now favours Bernie Sanders.



Dr.G. said:


> True. The super delegates put Hillary over the top. Next time, they will "feel the Bern". We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Who cleans up after hurricanes?


----------



## Macfury

Let the free market take care of it. Let your friend know they're in good hands!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who cleans up after hurricanes?


Interesting how Texas Sen. Ted Cruz was leading the opposition of any federal assistance going to NJ and NYC after Hurricane Sandy, but he was the first in line to ask the president for help for Texas. I would NOT deny federal help to any state that needed it, but his being a hypocrite is shocking. tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Let the free market take care of it. Let your friend know they're in good hands!


The free market would be charging you to be rescued from your flooded home. Don't want to pay the price or can't pay the price ................ sorry. That is how the free market operates. Want a bottle of water ............... $100 cash. Don't have it ................. sorry. "Let your friend know that you are in good hands" ........ but just don't lend that hand as a helping hand. Have it out for the payoff.


----------



## Macfury

You have such a low opinion of your fellow man, Dr. G. Deep down, such beliefs are at the heart of "progressivisim."


----------



## CubaMark

I was speaking today with some colleagues who also have worked in Cuba, and we were shaking our heads at the USA's inability to prepare for disasters like hurricanes. Cuba's experience is a model for ensuring people and resources are protected, particularly in the case of hurricanes which give you some lead time for preparation. Cubans I know, when talking about Hurricane Katrina's devastation in New Orleans, are incredulous at what they see as a total lack of government action in civil defence. I imagine the'd say the same about Texas / Harvey.


----------



## Macfury

Its easy to prepare if someone will shoot you for not preparing.



CubaMark said:


> I was speaking today with some colleagues who also have worked in Cuba, and we were shaking our heads at the USA's inability to prepare for disasters like hurricanes. Cuba's experience is a model for ensuring people and resources are protected, particularly in the case of hurricanes which give you some lead time for preparation. Cubans I know, when talking about Hurricane Katrina's devastation in New Orleans, are incredulous at what they see as a total lack of government action in civil defence. I imagine the'd say the same about Texas / Harvey.


----------



## eMacMan

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting how Texas Sen. Ted Cruz was leading the opposition of any federal assistance going to NJ and NYC after Hurricane Sandy, but he was the first in line to ask the president for help for Texas. I would NOT deny federal help to any state that needed it, but his being a hypocrite is shocking. tptptptp


He's a politician. If his lips are moving he is lying. If he is breathing you can be sure he is acting, has just acted, and/or is about to act, in a hypocritical manner.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Its easy to prepare if someone will shoot you for not preparing.


You win stupid comment of the day. 

_Meanwhile, in Texas:_








*(Time: Hurricane Harvey: Photo of Nursing Home Residents Stranded )​*


----------



## CubaMark

For those not ideologically blinded by the good things that Cuba represents:


----------



## Macfury

Meanwhile, in Cuba, during a non-emergency... it looks like an emergency!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> The free market would be charging you to be rescued from your flooded home. Don't want to pay the price or can't pay the price ................ sorry. That is how the free market operates. Want a bottle of water ............... $100 cash. Don't have it ................. sorry. "Let your friend know that you are in good hands" ........ but just don't lend that hand as a helping hand. Have it out for the payoff.



No doubt. There's a couple near Edmonton being charged $28,000 for a fire rescue call. They may have to sell their home.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> No doubt. There's a couple near Edmonton being charged $28,000 for a fire rescue call. They may have to sell their home.


A lot more people have to sell their home to pay property taxes.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Meanwhile, in Cuba, during a non-emergency... it looks like an emergency!


Well done, MacFury! You've provided an excellent example of False Equivalency.

The richest, most powerful nation on earth vs. a developing nation that has been subjected to nearly 60 years of economic warfare by the former.

What's your next trick?


----------



## Macfury

Pay up what you owe Cuba! End of economic warfare.


----------



## Dr.G.

eMacMan said:


> He's a politician. If his lips are moving he is lying. If he is breathing you can be sure he is acting, has just acted, and/or is about to act, in a hypocritical manner.


tptptptp

Hurricane Harvey likely to provoke polarizing fights - CNNPolitics


----------



## Macfury

If you have polarizing, irresponsible people like Ronald Brownstein writing articles such as this, it is almost certain.



Dr.G. said:


> tptptptp
> 
> Hurricane Harvey likely to provoke polarizing fights - CNNPolitics


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If you have polarizing, irresponsible people like Ronald Brownstein writing articles such as this, it is almost certain.


More blame should be aimed at the House and Senate Tea Party hard liners. It will be interesting to see if Ted Cruz maintains his position of no aid without corresponding cuts ................... maybe tie aid to Texas to no money for the Wall in Texas??? We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

You're already falling into the pattern, Dr.G. 



Dr.G. said:


> More blame should be aimed at the House and Senate Tea Party hard liners. It will be interesting to see if Ted Cruz maintains his position of no aid without corresponding cuts ................... maybe tie aid to Texas to no money for the Wall in Texas??? We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You're already falling into the pattern, Dr.G.


Sadly, yes, mon ami. Over and over and over those fiscal "hawks" refuse to let money flow to social needs unless they are offset by spending cuts .......... unless the cuts are from the military budget. Still, if the Wall was not built, there would be a "savings" of ovre 20 billion dollars. Sadly, I don't see the Freedom Caucus buying this as a savings.


----------



## FeXL

Further on this crap.

Trump: Clinton, Obama Pardoned ‘Dangerous Criminals’



> President Donald Trump defended his decision Monday to pardon former Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio, pointing out that previous presidents had pardoned dangerous criminals and that Arpaio was a patriot who was unfairly targeted.
> 
> “And if you look at, as an example, President Clinton pardoned Marc Rich, who was charged with crimes going back decades, including illegally buying oil from Iran while it held 53 American hostages -- wasn’t allowed to do that, selling to the enemies of the United States. He was pardoned after his wife donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Clintons,” Trump said.
> 
> “Then you have dangerous criminals. President Clinton pardoned Susan Rosenberg, a member of the Weather Underground, charged as part of a bank robbery that led to a guard and two police officers being killed,” Trump said in a joint White House press conference with Finnish President Sauli Niinisto.
> 
> “Drug dealers. President Clinton commuted the sentence of Carlos Vignali, a central player in a cocaine ring that stretched from California to Minnesota. Criminal leaker. You've heard the word "leaker." President Obama commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning, who leaked countless sensitive and classified documents to WikiLeaks, perhaps and others, but a horrible, horrible thing that he did. Commuted the sentence and perhaps pardoned,” the president said.
> 
> “President Obama commuted the sentence of Oscar Lopez Rivera, who was charged as part of a violent independence group from Puerto Rico, responsible for 28 Chicago-area bombings and many deaths in the 1970s and 1980s,” he said.


Now, I'm not the sort of person who follows lemmings off a cliff. However, I am the sort of person who will point out the, y'know, hypocritical left's silence on Bill & Barry's pardons.

And, this doesn't even begin to address Barry's release of Gitmo prisoners...



CubaMark said:


> _I wish I could say "*unbelievable*", but, y'know, *Trump*._


----------



## Macfury

Sorry Dr. G. -- I won't politicize the disaster as you are doing.



Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, yes, mon ami. Over and over and over those fiscal "hawks" refuse to let money flow to social needs unless they are offset by spending cuts .......... unless the cuts are from the military budget. Still, if the Wall was not built, there would be a "savings" of ovre 20 billion dollars. Sadly, I don't see the Freedom Caucus buying this as a savings.


----------



## FeXL

Imagine how much money would be available to help out if Barry hadn't frittered away a trillion bucks on non-existant "shovel-ready" jobs? Makes that wall look cheap by comparison, doesn't it...



Dr.G. said:


> Still, if the Wall was not built, there would be a "savings" of ovre 20 billion dollars.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Imagine how much money would be available to help out if Barry hadn't frittered away a trillion bucks on non-existant "shovel-ready" jobs? Makes that wall look cheap by comparison, doesn't it...


It's not the $10 trillion deficit inaugurated by Barry that's the problem, FeXL. Apparently the Tea Party is to blame for reigning him in.


----------



## SINC

Who knew Gone With The Wind would become a target too?

'Gone with Wind' is gone with a whine! TN theater caves to left, cancels classic after 34-year-tradition - USA Viral Politics


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Apparently the Tea Party is to blame for reigning him in.


The iron...


----------



## CubaMark

_That's quite a President they have down there in the 'States.... sheesh....._

*Trump offers flag-waving optimism in visit to Harvey's path*

The president did not mention those who died in the storm or those forced from their homes by its floodwaters. And he basked in the attention of cheering supporters outside the fire station where officials briefed him on the recovery.

"What a crowd, what a turnout," Trump declared before waving a Texas flag from atop a step ladder positioned between two fire trucks. "This is historic. It's epic what happened, but you know what, it happened in Texas, and Texas can handle anything."

** * **​
What little damage Trump saw — boarded-up windows, downed tree limbs and fences askew — was through the tinted windows of his SUV as his motorcade ferried him from the Corpus Christi airport to the firehouse in a city that's already nearly back to normal.
Trump spoke optimistically about the pace of the recovery, and predicted his response would be a textbook case for future presidents.

"We want to do it better than ever before," he said. "We want to be looked at in five years, in 10 years from now as, 'This is the way to do it.'"

** * **​
Ari Fleischer, who served as press secretary to former President George W. Bush, said there was something missing from Trump's remarks in Corpus Christi: "empathy for the people who suffer."

"The first thing he should have said was that his heart goes out to those people in Houston who are going through this, and that the government is here to help them recover,"

** * **​
...the president's vow of swift action on billions of dollars in disaster aid is at odds with his proposed budget, which would eliminate the program that helps Americans without flood insurance rebuild their homes and cuts grants to help states reduce the risk of flooding before disaster strikes.

Trump's budget proposal for 2018 zeroes out Community Development Block Grants, a key program that helped the Gulf Coast rebuild after Hurricane Katrina. 
(MetroNews)​


----------



## Macfury

How petty can you get, nitpicking the president's speech? This dogpiling is getting sad.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Except that didn't happen, so the cartoon fails.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Except that didn't happen, so the cartoon fails.




You fail. You fail to have a sense of humour.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This dogpiling is getting sad.


I dunno, MF.

He could have <snort> posted this article:

Melania Trump’s Hurricane Stilettos, and the White House’s Continual Failure to Understand Optics



> This morning, Mrs. Trump boarded Air Force One wearing a pair of towering pointy-toed snakeskin heels better suited to a shopping afternoon on Madison Avenue or a girls’ luncheon at La Grenouille.


And if she had sported hip waders they'd have been critical of that...


----------



## FeXL

I agree entirely.

Petition Calls FDR a ‘Racist,’ Looks to Rename NYC’s Roosevelt Island



> A petition is calling for New York’s Roosevelt Island to be renamed, claiming that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s decision to send Japanese-Americans to internment camps during World War II was “racist.”
> 
> As first reported by the _New York Post_ the petition, posted on Care2 Petitions, calls for the island’s dedication to the Democratic president to be removed, and the name to be reverted back to its native American name of Minnehanonck.
> 
> “Roosevelt Island was originally called Minnehanonck & subsequently named after Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was a racist,” the petition says.
> 
> “He signed Executive Order 9066 which put the Japanese into internment camps. To add injury to insult, the name was taken away from the Native American people who were slaughtered by the American settlers.”
> 
> “Change the name back & serve justice,” the author adds.


----------



## FeXL

Californians, huh? That bastion of all things left, progressive & stupid? Big surprise...

Health professionals report cases where people put sunscreen on their eyeballs to watch eclipse



> A health professional in California reported cases where eclipse-viewers sought medical treatment because they put sunscreen on their eyeballs to view last week’s solar eclipse.
> 
> KRCTV.com reported that these individuals applied the sunscreen because they did not have the NASA-approved eyewear.


Curious, CM, you never posted a meme about these Fruit Loops & Whackos.

Oh, I know. At least they tried to do something... :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

And you win because you guffaw and titter at everything?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You fail. You fail to have a sense of humour.


----------



## FeXL

Nancy Pelosi? :yikes:

Nancy Pelosi just made Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, and Mitt Romney look like schmucks for tacitly endorsing Antifa. Well played.


----------



## Macfury

Just a huge error on the part of the Tweeter. Pelosi is still in the doghouse.



FeXL said:


> Nancy Pelosi? :yikes:
> 
> Nancy Pelosi just made Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, and Mitt Romney look like schmucks for tacitly endorsing Antifa. Well played.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Just a huge error on the part of the Tweeter. Pelosi is still in the doghouse.


She is, but if even she is slowly coming to her senses.

Related:

Berkeley Mayor Wants Antifa Classified as a Gang After Assaulting Trump Supporters



> Are Democrats ready to start admitting that Antifa is violent?
> 
> At least one is.


I know. Shocka.

Related, too:

Poll: Americans Are Fed Up With Politically-Correct Viewpoint Discrimination



> The newly-released Harris poll, commissioned by Harvard University, covers a lot of ground on this front and offers a great deal of solace to those of us who worry about the malign and expanding influence of intolerant silencing mobs.


Now, I don't know if a poll commissioned by Hahvahd is considered "respectable" in these parts but it's definitely worth a read.

Related, three:

Charlottesville false narrative crushed by DHS warning



> The warning issued to state and city officials was clear that the violence in Charlottesville would come, as President Trump was widely criticized for saying, from "both sides." As quoted by Politico, the DHS assessment issued three days ahead of the Charlottesville incident read, "Anarchist extremists and white supremacist extremists online are calling on supporters to be prepared for or to instigate violence at the 12 August rally."


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's that whole Muslim-based FGM thing in the US doing?

Female Genital Mutilation USA: Where Is the Outrage?



> Where is the outrage from the so-called warriors of social justice? Why are the feminists not up in arms with this misogynistic practice being performed, primarily, by women for men on children? Is this not the greatest form of child abuse? Where is the press? What does it matter if it is cultural or religious?


More:



> We know the Left and radical Islam make strange bedfellows, but they do so when necessary to further their cause. FGM is child abuse at its extreme and a crime against all of humanity. This practice is about as misogynistic as one can get. Yet, the feminists and MSM are too busy defiling Donald Trump and lamenting the defeat of Hillary Clinton, a woman whom they admire as strong, independent, and smart. Their blind loyalty ensues as she continues to exhibit poor sportsmanship around her election loss and remains married to someone who has humiliated her for decades. Perhaps, it is not a coincidence the Ladies of the Left selectively ignore misogyny.


I must confess, I don't get the Left's selective ignoring of the misogyny in Islam as a whole & FGM in particular. This should be a slam dunk. If this was a white culture in North America with Catholicism acting like Islam does, the Progs would be all over it. Yet what to we get from them on the topic? Crickets...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> How petty can you get, nitpicking the president's speech? This dogpiling is getting sad.


I'm not sure who put out the "he's not showing empathy" talking point, or the stuff about mentioning crowd size (or Melania's shoes???), but that was an own goal for news media. It all comes off as fatuous, at best. 

Is the federal response competent? That question seems most relevant for the president, after getting notice out about how to get help, or where to volunteer.

On the regional response, I liked this article:
‘Cajun Navy’ to the rescue: In crises such as Harvey, you want outdoorsmen on your side | National Post

It will be a while before the competence of the federal response can be evaluated. Same goes for the state government.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I must confess, I don't get the Left's selective ignoring of the misogyny in Islam as a whole & FGM in particular. This should be a slam dunk. If this was a white culture in North America with Catholicism acting like Islam does, the Progs would be all over it. Yet what to we get from them on the topic? Crickets...


Just because you say the Left is "ignoring" FGM doesn't make it true. There are many people and organizations working against FGM where they need to be doing it: in direct contact with the communities of people whose cultures traditionally practice it.

And hey, how interesting, you continue to equate FGM with Islam, when - as we've already discussed, or rather, I did and you continue ignore - it's a cultural practice not directly tied to Islam, not advocated in the Koran. But that doesn't serve your anti-muslim narrative, so you decide to ignore that reality. 

But please, do go on. Your obsession with FGM is interesting to observe. I particularly find it odd that as a social conservative, you complain about a practice that is endorsed by social conservatives within the cultures which engage in it, while declaring yourself a staunch enemy of those same people. The problem here is conservatism, not religion.


----------



## FeXL

Funny, you have ground many axes on these boards over the years but, save a short comment about being Mr. Sensitive, you've never been much critical of it. Yet you'll post repeatedly on other topics. And, neither do I hear/read much criticism about it from the left anywhere. Just because you say the left is not ignoring it doesn't mean they aren't.

The left has been up in arms about dozens of issues during the past year. The hue & cry has been enormous and, in many cases, just stupid. Yet crickets on Muslim murders, Muslim FGM, Muslim sexual assaults & rapes, Muslims throwing gays off roofs, Muslim misogyny, period. All this despite the fact that there are multiple reports coming out of Europe about it on a daily basis.

But one isolated event shows up in Quebec where "MUSLIMS WERE ATTACKED!!!"  and nobody was even hurt & you're all over it. The hypocrisy is tangible.

Once again, perspective is needed.



CubaMark said:


> Just because you say the Left is "ignoring" FGM doesn't make it true.


Then why are the Muslims doing it if there is no equavalency? And, just because something may not be advocated in the Koran doesn't mean it's not pushed elsewhere.



CubaMark said:


> And hey, how interesting, you continue to equate FGM with Islam...


'Cause of all the sick $h!t these barbaric, misogynistic, ass-backward pricks foist on women, this is probably the worst.



CubaMark said:


> Your obsession with FGM is interesting to observe.


I find it particularly interesting that as a so-called trained sociologist you make no room for individual mores or morality in a subset.

In addition, you really don't know me as well as you think you do. Not even close.

Just because something may stem from the some on the right doesn't mean that all of us on the right are going to jump all over & endorse it. Unlike many on the left, we're not sheep. We can be critical of the right and most of us are. 

Somehow, the left has difficulty being critical of their own. I suspect it's because there are more blind ideologues on the left. Case in point? These boards...

And, the problem here is definitely primitive, barbaric, misogynistic cultures following a sick & twisted religion, conservative or not. 



CubaMark said:


> I particularly find it odd that as a social conservative, you complain about a practice that is endorsed by social conservatives within the cultures which engage in it, while declaring yourself a staunch enemy of those same people. The problem here is conservatism, not religion.


----------



## FeXL

Well, whaddya know. Paul Ryan shuffles off a very subdued criticism of Antifa _through his spokesperson_ to a small, online politically right organization that the left would never visit. <snort>

Profiles in Conservative Courage: Now That Nancy Pelosi Has Denounced Antifa, Paul Ryan Permits His Spokeswoman To Mumble Some Disapproval as Well



> Tell me more about this brave, dreamy "conservative leader," SubRight apologists.
> 
> A "conservative leader" who needs the cover of ultraprog Nancy Pelosi before he'll have his spokeswoman simper out a statement to the Daily Caller is neither conservative nor a leader.
> 
> He's just a stuffed-shirt pansy, like 40% of this party and 90% of its rulers.
> 
> By the way, this statement was an exclusive to the Daily Caller. The Daily Caller is not a huge media organ like the Washington Post -- Paul Ryan not only squeaked out his mouselike disapproval through his spokeswoman, but put it out to a small online operation where only people on the right would be likely to see it.


----------



## FeXL

I don't think this report will have the effect they intended.

Zuckerberg Group: 700K American Job Openings If DACA Ends



> A study by Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s open borders organization revealed that if an Obama-created amnesty program for young illegal aliens is ended, it would open nearly 700,000 American jobs.
> 
> Zuckerberg’s FWD.us group – a pro-immigration lobbying group – released the study with the intention to show the hardships of ending the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, where more than 850,000 young illegal aliens have been given temporary amnesty would have on the American economy.
> 
> The study unintentionally revealed how many more job opportunities American workers would have if President Trump were to repeal DACA, as he promised his supporters he would do.


----------



## FeXL

No surprise.

CONFIRMED: Comey Decided He Wasn't Going to Refer Hillary For Prosecution Long Before FBI Investigation Was Over



> According to new transcripts released by the Senate Judiciary Committee Thursday afternoon, former FBI Director James Comey made the decision not to refer then Democrat presidential candidate Hillary Clinton for prosecution long before ever interviewing key witnesses. Members of the Committee allege Comey made the decision months before FBI agents were finished with the criminal investigation into her mishandling of classified information during her time as Secretary of State.


Related:

Comey drafted announcement closing Hillary Clinton probe before key witnesses interviewed: Senators


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> No surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIRMED: Comey Decided He Wasn't Going to Refer Hillary For Prosecution Long Before FBI Investigation Was Over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> Comey drafted announcement closing Hillary Clinton probe before key witnesses interviewed: Senators




But her e-mails!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Except they haven't. Satire only works if it's based on something recognizable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




Sadly, some will protest because they do not recognize the irony of the meme.


----------



## Macfury

The irony is that progs would rather have illegal aliens complete the work than American construction workers.


----------



## FUXL

Souiee! Souiee!! Souiee!!!

Y'all remember this cracker brought up in the other *religion of peace*(m'bold)?

https://www.gq.com/story/dylann-roof-making-of-an-american-terrorist


----------



## Macfury

Prove first that you read the article by commenting on it, lazy ass!


----------



## FUXL

Macfury said:


> Prove first that you read the article by commenting on it, lazy ass!


Ok. I think it's a good article. Athhole.


----------



## Macfury

That clinches it!



FUXL said:


> Ok. I think it's a good article. Athhole.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump's Media Pals Are Busy Creating a Left-Wing 'Threat' to Balance Out the Awful Racist Right-Wing Hordes That Threaten Civil Society*

In these dark days, an intergenerational warning is in order: Antifa folks, be wary. They are coming for you. 

Some of us have seen this movie before. In my generation, when I was a teenage member of MSU’s SDS in the late 1960s, I remember the guy who was always yelling, “Kill the pigs,” and encouraging us to burn down the ROTC building on campus. In later years, I heard from old SDS colleagues that when they sued the police, they learned that the outspoken guy was a police officer and his friends were informants.

** * **​
There’s little doubt in my mind, having lived through the era of COINTELPRO and the Patriot Act, that somewhere out there is a person who’s planning to commit an act of terrorism. It may be a dedicated but deluded left-winger, or more likely, a right-winger hoping to stir things up by pretending to be a left-winger. And Trump and his friendly “news” outlets are ready to use it.

Perhaps apocryphally, Mark Twain once noted that, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.” 

There’s no shortage of examples of that rhyme, and given all the “mainstream” press now being thrown at the Antifa movement, it’s a sure thing that they’re going to be the administration’s and the media’s next big boogeyman. 
(Alternet)​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> *Trump's Media Pals Are Busy Creating a Left-Wing 'Threat' to Balance Out the Awful Racist Right-Wing Hordes That Threaten Civil Society*
> In these dark days, an intergenerational warning is in order: Antifa folks, be wary. They are coming for you.
> 
> Some of us have seen this movie before. In my generation, when I was a teenage member of MSU’s SDS in the late 1960s, I remember the guy who was always yelling, “Kill the pigs,” and encouraging us to burn down the ROTC building on campus. In later years, I heard from old SDS colleagues that when they sued the police, they learned that the outspoken guy was a police officer and his friends were informants.
> 
> ** * **​
> There’s little doubt in my mind, having lived through the era of COINTELPRO and the Patriot Act, that somewhere out there is a person who’s planning to commit an act of terrorism. It may be a dedicated but deluded left-winger, or more likely, a right-winger hoping to stir things up by pretending to be a left-winger. And Trump and his friendly “news” outlets are ready to use it.
> 
> Perhaps apocryphally, Mark Twain once noted that, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.”
> 
> There’s no shortage of examples of that rhyme, and given all the “mainstream” press now being thrown at the Antifa movement, it’s a sure thing that they’re going to be the administration’s and the media’s next big boogeyman.
> (Alternet)​


More likely still it will be one of those federales who permeate each and every group viewed as even a mild threat to the puppet masters. The intent will be to discredit whatever group is blamed and to allow for even greater crackdowns on free speech and all the other protections supposedly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

FWIW I believe that David Dukes claims that more than half the members of so-called white supremacist groups are federal agents. Easily identified as they are the ones loudly clamoring for violence.


----------



## Macfury

Thoes hordes of Trump-friendly media outlets must be stopped! (If only I could find them.)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yup. Trump makes America great again. 












> Trump makes it more difficult to rebuild for future floods
> 
> Obama effort to prepare for climate change rescinded 2 weeks before Harvey hit
> 
> Michael Biesecker and Joan Lowy · The Associated Press August 30, 2017
> 
> Two weeks before Harvey's flood waters engulfed much of Houston, U.S. President Donald Trump quietly rolled back an order by his predecessor that would have made it easier for storm-ravaged communities to use federal emergency aid to rebuild bridges, roads and other structures so they can better withstand future disasters.
> 
> Now, with much of the nation's fourth-largest city underwater, Trump's move has new resonance. Critics note the president's order could force Houston and other cities to rebuild hospitals and highways in the same way and in the same flood-prone areas.
> 
> The order Trump revoked would have permitted the rebuilding to take into account climate scientists' predictions of stronger storms and more frequent flooding.
> 
> Bridges and highways, for example, could be rebuilt higher, or with better drainage. The foundation of a new fire station or hospital might be elevated an extra metre.
> 
> "Rebuilding while ignoring future flood events is like treating someone for lung cancer and then giving him a carton of cigarettes on the way out the door," said Michael Gerrard, a professor of environmental and climate change law at Columbia University. "If you're going to rebuild after a bad event, you don't want to expose yourself to the same thing all over again."
> 
> Harvey
> A driver works his way through a maze of fallen utility poles damaged in the wake of Hurricane Harvey in Taft, Texas. Warmer air and warmer water linked to global warming have long been projected to make such storms wetter and more intense. (Eric Gay/Associated Press)
> 
> Trump's action is one of several ways the president, who has called climate change a hoax, has tried to wipe away former president Barack Obama's efforts to make the United States more resilient to threats posed by the changing climate.
> 
> While scientists caution against blaming specific weather events like Harvey on climate change, warmer air and warmer water linked to global warming have long been projected to make such storms wetter and more intense. Houston, for example, has experienced three floods in three years that statistically were once considered one-in-500-year events.
> 
> Rebuilding facilities the same way
> 
> The government was still in the process of implementing Obama's 2015 order when it was rescinded. That means the old standard — rebuilding storm-ravaged facilities in the same way they had been built before — is still in place.
> 
> Trump revoked Obama's order as part of an executive order of his own that he touted at an Aug. 15 news conference at Trump Tower. That news conference was supposed to focus on infrastructure, but it was dominated by Trump's comments on the previous weekend's violence in Charlottesville, Va.
> 
> STORM-HARVEY/TRUMP
> Revoking Obama's order is one of several ways Donald Trump has tried to wipe away his predecessor's efforts to make the U.S. more resilient to threats posed by climate change. (Carlos Barria/Reuters)
> 
> Trump didn't specifically mention the revocation, but he said he was making the federal permitting process for the construction of transportation and other infrastructure projects faster and more cost-efficient without harming the environment.
> 
> "It's going to be quick, it's going to be a very streamlined process," Trump said.
> 
> Asked about the revocation, the White House said in a statement that Obama's order didn't consider potential impacts on the economy and was "applied broadly to the whole country, leaving little room or flexibility for designers to exercise professional judgment or incorporate the particular context" of a project's location.
> 
> Obama's now-defunct order also revamped federal flood risk management standards, calling for tighter restrictions on new construction in flood-prone areas. Republicans, including Senator John Cornyn of Texas, opposed the measure, saying it would impede land development and economic growth.
> 
> Undoing Obama
> 
> Revoking that order was only the latest step by Trump to undo Obama's actions on climate change.
> 
> In March, Trump rescinded a 2013 order that directed federal agencies to encourage states and local communities to build new infrastructure and facilities "smarter and stronger" in anticipation of more frequent extreme weather.
> 
> Trump revoked a 2015 Obama memo directing agencies developing national security policies to consider the potential impact of climate change.
> 
> Harvey
> Highways around downtown Houston were empty Tuesdays as floodwaters from tropical storm Harvey overflow from the bayous around the city. (David J. Phillip/Associated Press)
> 
> The president also disbanded two advisory groups created by Obama: the interagency Council on Climate Preparedness and Resilience and the State, Local, and Tribal Leaders Task Force on Climate Preparedness and Resilience.
> 
> Obama's 2015 order was prompted in part by concerns raised by Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper after severe flooding in his state two years earlier. Hickenlooper was dismayed to learn that federal disaster aid rules were preventing state officials from rebuilding "better and smarter than what we had built before."
> 
> 'Build it back exactly the way it was'
> 
> The "requirements essentially said you had to build it back exactly the way it was, that you couldn't take into consideration improvements in resiliency," Hickenlooper, a Democrat, said Tuesday. "We want to be more prepared for the next event, not less prepared."
> 
> STORM-HARVEY/
> Vehicles sits half submerged in floodwaters under a bridge in Houston last weekend. (Ernest Scheyder/Reuters)
> 
> Bud Wright, the Federal Highway Administration's executive director during George W. Bush's administration, said this has long been a concern of federal officials.
> 
> He recalled a South Dakota road that was "almost perpetually flooded" but was repeatedly rebuilt to the same standard using federal aid because the state didn't have the extra money to pay for enhancements.
> 
> "It seemed a little ridiculous that we kept doing that," said Wright, now the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials' executive director.
> 
> How to build more resilient infrastructure
> 
> But Kirk Steudle, director of Michigan's Department of Transportation, said states can build more resilient infrastructure than what they had before a disaster by using state or non-emergency federal funds to make up the cost difference.
> 
> 
> Before-and-after photos capture Houston's historic flooding
> 
> Before-and-after photos capture Houston's historic flooding 0:49
> 
> "That makes sense, otherwise FEMA would be the big chequebook," he said, referring to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "Everybody would be hoping for some disaster so FEMA could come in and build them a brand new road to the 2020 standard instead of the 1970 standard."
> 
> Even though Obama's order has been revoked, federal officials have some wiggle room that might allow them to rebuild to higher standards, said Jessica Grannis, who manages the adaptation program at the Georgetown Climate Center.
> 
> If local building codes in place before the storm call for new construction to be more resilient to flooding, then federal money can still be used to pay the additional costs.
> 
> For example, in Houston regulations require structures to be rebuilt 30 centimetres above the level designated for a one-in-100-year storm. And in the wake of prior disasters, FEMA has moved to remap floodplains, setting the line for the one-in-100-year flood higher than it was before.


http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/trump-obama-climate-change-1.4269250


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That clinches it!




Clinches the atthole? You're becoming a little too graphic in your references, amigo.


----------



## Macfury

Climate change has nothing to do with that hurricane and the funds from Obama's program were not being used for infrastructure. Look at New Orleans after so much money has been block granted it to improve flood infrastructure.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Trump's Media Pals Are Busy Creating a Left-Wing 'Threat' to Balance Out the Awful Racist Right-Wing Hordes That Threaten Civil Society


You call out Fexl on the quality of his sources? Projection.

Politico's article (a Trump media pal, presumably):
FBI, Homeland Security warn of more â€˜antifa' attacks - POLITICO


> In recent decades, authorities have focused almost exclusively on right-wing groups as the most likely instigators of domestic terrorist violence, especially since Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995, killing 168 people.





> Said one senior New Jersey law enforcement official following the antifa groups: “There’s a lot more we don’t know about these groups than what we do know about them.”



The conspiratorial rant in the other link happened because authorities, starting in 2016, put more resources into examining violent left wing "protestors". I guess scrutiny of left wing violence is a problem. Yada, yada, yada, everything is fascist. Fill in the logic yourself.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Funny how that works.


----------



## Macfury

The press is just cacthing up with its oversight. Nothing funny about how that works.


----------



## eMacMan

Still trying to find a definitive answer as to whether antifa demonstrators were attacking the car with baseball bats immediately prior to the collision. 

Interesting (telling?) that the Lamestream has made no effort to follow this aspect through as it would make a big difference if the driver was in fear for his life. 

Either way it's sad that a relatively innocent life was lost.


----------



## SINC

Who knew?

Impeaching Donald Trump is a long shot - There's another way to protect the US | The Independent


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Barry's legacy, again.


Holocaust Museum Pulls Study Absolving Obama Administration for Inaction in Face of Syrian Genocide



> A major United States Holocaust Memorial Museum study of the Obama Administration’s Syria policy was put on hold last night after portions of the study given to Tablet were greeted with shock and harsh criticism by prominent Jewish communal leaders and thinkers.


More:



> Rabbi Shmuly Yanklowitz, co-founder of Jews for Human Rights in Syria, who has worked with the Holocaust Museum and the Syrian community, said he was baffled by the report. “When the presidential commission on the Holocaust decided the Museum should also include a committee on conscience, the idea was that they should not merely preserve Holocaust memory but be a force to helping prevent future genocides and mass atrocities,” he explained. *“To merely say no intervention could have made a difference strikes me as a strange conclusion if I understand it correctly…. I don’t think we have the right to choose inaction when we know the reality on the ground.”*


M'bold.

Curious, idn't it. Precisely the same reaction Benghazi got. From precisely the same administration...


----------



## FeXL

As above.

Shattuck: Too bad our former prez didn’t bother to take his own advice



> POTUS 44 went full professor in his _do as I say, not as I did_ admonishments.
> 
> “It’s up to us to do everything we can (to) build more ladders of success for every child and family that’s willing to work hard,” reads Obama’s first commandment. An astounding statement from a president who did his best to pile all of the “ladders of success” and burn them in a regulatory bonfire. Under-employment under Obama was historic and Obamacare pummeled small businesses mercilessly.
> 
> “American leadership in this world really is indispensable. It’s up to us, through action and example, to sustain the international order that’s expanded steadily since the end of the Cold War, and upon which our own wealth and safety depend.”
> 
> *No, seriously. He wrote that.*


More:



> *It is possible no other president in American history did more to stoke chaos and disorder in the world and less to “sustain order” than Barack “Red Line” Obama*, who kicked off his presidency with the infamous apology tour. He abandoned Iraq, facilitating the rise of ISIS. He wrecked Libya and cowered in Syria — letting Russia step in. He backed down on missile defense for Eastern Europe and stood by as an emboldened Vladimir Putin invaded Crimea. He put Iran on the nuclear fast track, and impotently watched as North Korea honed its nuclear missile technology.


All bold mine.

Sums it up for me.


----------



## Macfury

As long as he increased welfare spending, some people don't care about any of his massive and frequent failures.



FeXL said:


> As above.
> 
> Shattuck: Too bad our former prez didn’t bother to take his own advice
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> All bold mine.
> 
> Sums it up for me.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> As long as he increased welfare spending, some people don't care about any of his massive and frequent failures.


And free iPhones! :love2:


----------



## FeXL

Why not? I'm on a roll...

The Morning Rant



> "The graphic that you see below is totally unfair. Obama has lots of other accomplishments. He also completely corrupted the IRS, the FBI, and the Justice Department, let the Middle East descend into chaos, and deliberately exacerbated racial tensions until they were as raw and as inflamed as they have ever been in our history."


And this:


----------



## FeXL

When you run in certain circles...

Book by Hillary Clinton’s pastor will be pulled from shelves due to extensive plagiarism



> Hillary Clinton said that the email her spiritual adviser, the Rev. Bill Shillady, sent her on the morning after she lost the 2016 presidential election helped her heal from her devastating defeat. [:-(]
> 
> It wasn’t until months later, when Shillady published that email in a book, that it came to light that he had plagiarized the words that so moved the candidate.
> 
> Now, less than a month after the book’s publication, the publishing house that printed it says it is pulling the book off the shelves because it’s riddled with plagiarism.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The rule of law allows pardons. The DACA program is not based in law--it's an Executive Order and as such can be rescinded. Trump rightfully gave Congress six months to create an actual law around these non-citizen "Dreamers" to restore the balance of powers in this matter. They're not "golden"--they're just another group of people.


----------



## FeXL

So, some Texans just slaughtered a steer in a Houston apartment complex parking lot, blood all over the place, and _no charges were laid_.

j/k. It was Muslims, a sheep & *Bismarck, ND*... 

North Dakota: Muslims slaughter sheep in apt complex parking lot, no charges filed



> A religious slaughter of a sheep in town Friday morning led Bismarck Police to request an opinion for future, similar matters.
> 
> Lt. Steven Scheuer said officers, including animal control, responded to a report of a sheep being killed in a common parking area for apartments on the 2500 block of North Eighth Street. Police spoke with the man and woman there who were performing a ceremony in accordance with their Muslim faith, according to Scheuer.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> j/k. It was Muslims, a sheep & *Bismarck, ND*...


......  .......

Sorry, what's the problem here?

From the story you cited (from the no-doubt standard of high-quality journalism website "creeping sharia" hahahahahahahaha):

_Assistant city attorney Jason Hammes said no specific ordinance or health code provision appeared to be violated.

“I didn’t see anything on this that jumped out as over-the-top disorderly,” said Hammes, adding that a bigger issue would be if the live sheep had been kept in town as livestock, including poultry, beef and sheep, are not allowed in city limits. Awareness of related ordinances and health codes would also benefit similar situations as this, Hammes said.

Muslims celebrated Eid al-Adha on Friday, a holy time of sacrifice. Worshippers observe Eid al-Adha with prayer and the sacrifice of animals, such as goats and sheep._​
What specifically do you have a problem with? Are you one of those urbanites who doesn't know where meat comes from? Were you shocked when you found out that Miss Piggy was just another form of bacon? Heck, when I was a kid I regularly took hatchet in hand to decapitate a fowl for dinner. Is it the blood? Does it disturb you? Or is it because... *gasp*... THEY WERE MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!!! :yikes::yikes:

Jeez. Talk about "snowflake".


----------



## Macfury

Bismarck's own by-law (3-01-04) states that: 



> "It is unlawful for any person to: Overwork, overload, torture, cruelly beat, neglect, or unjustifiably injure, maim, mutilate or kill any animal.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Bismarck's own by-law (3-01-04) states that:
> _"It is unlawful for any person to: Overwork, overload, torture, cruelly beat, neglect, or *unjustifiably* injure, maim, mutilate or kill any animal._


This animal was not tortured, maimed or mutilated. It was killed — _justifiably, apparently_ — in order to feed those participating in the act.

So again we return to the real issue at hand: Muslims did something within the bounds of their religious practice, and it's made certain WASPs wet their drawers out of paranoid cultural fear.

Happens every damn day.


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## Macfury

Do you consider it justifiable to kill an animal in public, CM?



CubaMark said:


> This animal was not tortured, maimed or mutilated. It was killed — _justifiably, apparently_ — in order to feed those participating in the act.


----------



## FeXL

Why am I not surprised yer confused?



CubaMark said:


> ......  .......


If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand anyways.



CubaMark said:


> Sorry, what's the problem here?


Quotes the guy using a postie as a reference. Can you find any inaccuracies in the story? Then STFU.



CubaMark said:


> From the story you cited (from the no-doubt standard of high-quality journalism website "creeping sharia" hahahahahahahaha):


Yeah, and until a short time ago FGM wasn't against the law in the US either.

Just because there is not a specific law being broken doesn't mean there's not a problem with the action. How d'ya s'pose laws get added to the books? When somebody does something stupid that had never happened before...



CubaMark said:


> _Assistant city attorney Jason Hammes said no specific ordinance or health code provision appeared to be violated._​


_

Nothing. It's all good. Everything's fine, CM. No, really.



CubaMark said:



What specifically do you have a problem with?

Click to expand...

Every time you want to get into another pi$$ing contest with me, you lose. Fine. Here we go again. 

I'm willing to bet just about anything that we killed, butchered & dressed more meat in an average year on our farm, ourselves, than you did the whole time you were on your cute little hobby farm down east (with horses an' everythin'!). Beef, pork, chickens, turkeys, fish, wild game, what have you.

Wanna take that bet?

Now, question: Did you butcher your "fowl" on the steps of city hall? Or did you do it somewhere on the back 40?



CubaMark said:



blah, blah-blah, blah-blah

Click to expand...

_​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Do you consider it justifiable to kill an animal in public, CM?


Are you concerned for the dignity of the animal, or public sensibilities?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Can you find any inaccuracies in the story? Then STFU.


In the original story from the Bismarck Tribune, nope. The italicized editorial comment by the scaredy cats at *creeping sharia*, I could do without. It's the interpretation, innuendo and blatant bigotry that is offensive.



FeXL said:


> Yeah, and until a short time ago FGM wasn't against the law in the US either.


....You're equating the slaughter for consumption of an animal with the mutilation of girls. That's one very strange worldview you've got there, mister.



FeXL said:


> Just because there is not a specific law being broken doesn't mean there's not a problem with the action.


Seems like the cops and city officials don't see anything illegal here. This is just your irrational hatred of muslims manifesting in fake outrage.



FeXL said:


> How d'ya s'pose laws get added to the books? When somebody does something stupid that had never happened before...


There already are laws on the books. None were broken. You are behaving irrationally.



FeXL said:


> Now, question: Did you butcher your "fowl" on the steps of city hall? Or did you do it somewhere on the back 40?


Actually, in our front yard, right in front of the barn, in full view of the other 1100 residents of my little hometown. This was within town limits, BTW - that's how tiny our town is. 

Bismarck, ND, is a town of about 73,000 people - not very large, true. The 2500 block is about here - pretty suburban. Looks like the common parking area would be in the rear of the building. From the freakazoid rant at *creeping sharia* you'd think they were doing this in the middle of an intersection in the city centre, where a primary school, monument to fallen soldiers of the confederacy, God's Only Truth evangelical church and that monument to American capitalism, a blessed-by-Jesus Starbucks all sat kitty-corner from one another. 

Seriously, FeXL. For your own mental health, stay away from those mania-inducing websites.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Are you concerned for the dignity of the animal, or public sensibilities?


Both public sensibilities and concern that the animal be killed humanely.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump's base is praising him for bucking Republicans. He might just try it again - World - CBC News

Very interesting .............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Trump's base is praising him for bucking Republicans. He might just try it again - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting .............
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM



I always thought Arte Johnson and John Denver were the same person.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I always thought Arte Johnson and John Denver were the same person.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_Unbelievable? _Nope. *Trump*. 

*Donald Trump 'wasn't aware what scrapping DACA would mean' before deciding fate of 800,000 people*

White House officials have raised concerns that Donald Trump didn’t completely grasp the implications of ending the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program before he made a decision about its future.

Administration officials privately fretted that Mr Trump may have not understood exactly what effects rescinding DACA could have, according to a report from the New York Times.

Mr Trump’s administration has since then has attempted to cede responsibility for the policy, and said that it is now up to Congress to determine a legislative future for the program. Since its implementation in 2012, as many as 800,000 young undocumented immigrants in the US have applied for the protected status, which grants work visas to people who came to the United States illegally at a very young age.
(Independent UK)​
_And from the NYT article referenced in the Independent's coverage:_

*Trump Moves to End DACA and Calls on Congress to Act*

Just hours after the angry reaction to Mr. Trump’s decision, the president appeared to have second thoughts. In a late-evening tweet, Mr. Trump specifically called on Congress to “legalize DACA,” something his administration’s officials had declined to do earlier in the day.

Mr. Trump also warned lawmakers that if they do not legislate a program similar to the one Mr. Obama created through executive authority, he will “revisit this issue!” — a statement sure to inject more uncertainty into the ultimate fate of the young, undocumented immigrants who have been benefiting from the program since 2012.

** * **​
The president’s wavering was reflected in a day of conflicting messages from him and his team. Hours after his statement was released, Mr. Trump told reporters that he had “great love” for the beneficiaries of the program he had just ended.

“I have a love for these people, and hopefully now Congress will be able to help them and do it properly,” he said. But he notably did not endorse bipartisan legislation to codify the program’s protections, leaving it unclear whether he would back such a solution.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPol...dCL0pBuGnXWcPrwLJcZIS5p-g8ka7t1i9og-GRtkylW1M

tptptptpXX)

What a jerk. Wonder how many folks in TX and Florida are still following RL's words?


----------



## Dr.G.

Gov. Chris Christie caught hell when he was seen with Pres. Obama in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy in NJ. Wonder if he will suffer the same fate this time? We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

A great idea.


----------



## Macfury

Ooooh, CM is "MAD"....MAD I tell you!

I think Trump did just the right thing. Threw DACA back to Congress so it can choose what laws cover illegal immigrants under 30. A program created by executive order is not a good constitutional choice.




CubaMark said:


> _Unbelievable? _Nope. *Trump*.
> 
> *Donald Trump 'wasn't aware what scrapping DACA would mean' before deciding fate of 800,000 people*
> 
> White House officials have raised concerns that Donald Trump didn’t completely grasp the implications of ending the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program before he made a decision about its future.
> 
> Administration officials privately fretted that Mr Trump may have not understood exactly what effects rescinding DACA could have, according to a report from the New York Times.
> 
> Mr Trump’s administration has since then has attempted to cede responsibility for the policy, and said that it is now up to Congress to determine a legislative future for the program. Since its implementation in 2012, as many as 800,000 young undocumented immigrants in the US have applied for the protected status, which grants work visas to people who came to the United States illegally at a very young age.
> (Independent UK)​
> _And from the NYT article referenced in the Independent's coverage:_
> 
> *Trump Moves to End DACA and Calls on Congress to Act*
> 
> Just hours after the angry reaction to Mr. Trump’s decision, the president appeared to have second thoughts. In a late-evening tweet, Mr. Trump specifically called on Congress to “legalize DACA,” something his administration’s officials had declined to do earlier in the day.
> 
> Mr. Trump also warned lawmakers that if they do not legislate a program similar to the one Mr. Obama created through executive authority, he will “revisit this issue!” — a statement sure to inject more uncertainty into the ultimate fate of the young, undocumented immigrants who have been benefiting from the program since 2012.
> 
> ** * **​
> The president’s wavering was reflected in a day of conflicting messages from him and his team. Hours after his statement was released, Mr. Trump told reporters that he had “great love” for the beneficiaries of the program he had just ended.
> 
> “I have a love for these people, and hopefully now Congress will be able to help them and do it properly,” he said. But he notably did not endorse bipartisan legislation to codify the program’s protections, leaving it unclear whether he would back such a solution.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Does Canada really need to increase its population?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Does Canada really need to increase its population?


Yes, at least here in NS.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Yes, at least here in NS.


Nope.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Nope.


Well, maybe not in your area of ON, but YES here in NS. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Well, maybe not in your area of ON, but YES here in NS. Paix, mon ami.


Why do you need them?


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Why do you need them?


We have a declining population here in NS, and could use skilled workers for various professions/trades.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> We have a declining population here in NS, and could use skilled workers for various professions/trades.


If they won't pay enough to attract skilled Candians, then this is simply an excuse by companies to import cheap labour.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> If they won't pay enough to attract skilled Candians, then this is simply an excuse by companies to import cheap labour.


No one was talking about "importing cheap labor". You asked if Canada needs to increase it's population. Nova Scotia does, be it through people coming here from other provinces, like my wife and I did, a higher birth rate, or through legal immigration, like I did when I came to Canada as a Landed Immigrant.


----------



## Macfury

There are enough people willing to do the work if the price is right. It doesn't require an increase in population, it needs fewer unskilled people and a few more skilled ones.



Dr.G. said:


> No one was talking about "importing cheap labor". You asked if Canada needs to increase it's population. Nova Scotia does, be it through people coming here from other provinces, like my wife and I did, a higher birth rate, or through legal immigration, like I did when I came to Canada as a Landed Immigrant.


----------



## FeXL

*So, it's 9-11.*

The Morning Rant



> "Today is the anniversary of an event that changed America forever, one that we'll be talking about for a long time: One year ago today, Hillary Clinton was unceremoniously tossed into the back of an SUV like a sack of fertilizer, and that pretty much ended her presidential campaign right there. And she lost a shoe."


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

And just in case you don't want to click on the link (This _never_ gets old):


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There are enough people willing to do the work if the price is right. It doesn't require an increase in population, it needs fewer unskilled people and a few more skilled ones.


Maybe in ON, but here in NS, as in NL, there are certain jobs that require special skills and even though they are paying top dollar, it is difficult for these positions to be filled. I guess folks do not want to settle in parts of NS or NL. Such is Life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The Morning Rant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> And just in case you don't want to click on the link (This _never_ gets old):




You certainly seem to be threatened by Hillary Clinton, still, all this time later. Is it just all women in general or just her that threatens you so much?


----------



## FeXL

Being the beta male that I am, it's all females. They're all jes' so...scary! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Is it just all women in general or just her that threatens you so much?


----------



## Macfury

I hope you have a plush toy within reach FeXL old buddy.



FeXL said:


> Being the beta male that I am, it's all females. They're all jes' so...scary!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I hope you have a plush toy within reach FeXL old buddy.


My lovely bride will be home soon. The horror. 

I think I'm going to put on my red plaid onesies, have me sainted mother brew up a cup of hot cocoa, hide out in her basement, go online & buy some health insurance... :-(


----------



## FeXL

Nope. Nuttin' to see here...

20 Thousand Illegally Voted in 2016 Election in Chicago, New Hampshire



> The Chicago Republican Party filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the Chicago Board of Elections and there was a discrepancy in the number of those who are registered to vote versus votes cast. A list of 1,101,178 individuals were handed over, according to Fox News, however there were 1,115,664 votes cast. The Chicago GOP says there could have been as few as 14,000 illegal votes or as many as 16,000.


More:



> _ Over 80 percent, 5,313, who used non-N.H. driver’s licenses, had neither a state licenses nor had registered a motor vehicle.
> 
> There are 196 people today who are being investigated for voting illegally both in New Hampshire and in other states.
> 
> Hillary Clinton defeated Donald Trump in News Hampshire by 2,736 votes.
> 
> Democratic Sen. Maggie Hassan defeated incumbent Republican Kelly Ayotte by 1,017 votes._​


So, lemme get this straight. The left screams blue murder when you suggest that voters require state issued ID in order to vote, yet ID, fingerprinting and a rigid vetting process for firearm purchases gets a pass from them.



> In order to obtain the license, a Maryland resident is required to obtain training, submit an application to the state police, submit electronic fingerprint records to the state police, pay associated fees, and pass a background check.


I'd be more than happy to have voters forced to follow the same set of rules. Can you imagine the hue & cry from the left? Bring it...


----------



## eMacMan

Watched part of the Broncos game last night and noticed the Red-Cross had invested in some rather expensive ads to help hurricane victims.

Meanwhile in the Virgin Islands, they have a hospital that is dangerously low on supplies and a staff in desperate need of relief. 

Now if there is one thing the Red-Cross should know it is that hospital supplies and medical personnel are needed the instant the winds drop and you can get them onsite. So why the delay?


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> So why the delay?


They're far too busy spending the 75% of the funding that never sees the target...


----------



## FeXL

Ninth Circus overthrown. Again...

Supreme Court sides with Trump on travel ban on refugees



> The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump can limit refugees from coming into the U.S. for now, scrapping a federal appeals court ruling that would have limited the scope of Trump's travel ban.
> 
> The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals court last week said refugees with a formal assurance from a government agency, such as resettlement agencies, are exempt from Trump's travel ban. The travel ban temporarily blocked foreign nationals from coming to the U.S. from six Muslim-majority countries unless they have certain family ties in the U.S., a move the Trump administration said is needed to ensure national security.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. There's no voter fraud & voting machines work just fine. Riiiiiight...

Stunning testimony: Voting machines can be hacked without a trace of evidence



> The country’s voting machines are susceptible to hacking, which could be done in a way so that it leaves no fingerprints, making it impossible to know whether the outcome was changed, computer experts told President Trump’s voter integrity commission Tuesday.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Benghazi.

Security officers who survived Benghazi say Clinton's team silenced them: Report



> *Security officers at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi claimed Tuesday that an employee who reported to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pressured them to be quiet about the lack of adequate security just before the 2012 terror attack in Libya.*
> 
> Torres Advanced Enterprise Solutions employees Brad Owens and Jerry Torres told Fox News host Tucker Carlson Tuesday evening that they were told not to talk about the government scrambled to improve security at the compound just weeks before the attack.


M'bold.

More:



> Those "who made the poor choices that actually, I would say, were more responsible for the Benghazi attacks than anyone else, they're still in the same positions, making security choices for our embassies overseas now," Owens said.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Planned Parenthood Claims End of DACA 'Ruined' Children's Futures — Runs Head First Into the Backlash



> When Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the Trump administration's plans to roll back DACA, leaving a six-month window for Congress to come up with a solution, a lot of critics were upset by the move.
> 
> Most critics claimed that, in ending DACA, the Trump administration was effectively punishing the child for the “sins of the father.”
> 
> One such critic, Planned Parenthood, addressed concerns via Twitter:
> 
> _Show up to #DefendDACA tomorrow→https://t.co/PEk0BTutqC
> 
> DACA works. It would be heartless & cruel to dash #DACAmented people's futures._


More:



> But a number of people saw the irony in the notion that Planned Parenthood — which oversees hundreds of thousands of abortions annually — was concerned about the future of a child


The Twitter responses nail it. Times like this I _almost_ wish I had an account, just to pour fuel on the fire...


----------



## Macfury

I remember donating money to the American Red Cross following 9/11 after a similar appeal for funds. Some double-dealing mouthpiece later tried to defend the decision to divert the money to administrative costs.



eMacMan said:


> Watched part of the Broncos game last night and noticed the Red-Cross had invested in some rather expensive ads to help hurricane victims.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Virgin Islands, they have a hospital that is dangerously low on supplies and a staff in desperate need of relief.
> 
> Now if there is one thing the Red-Cross should know it is that hospital supplies and medical personnel are needed the instant the winds drop and you can get them onsite. So why the delay?


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%2Bnation&wpmk=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQveng3Wxz8


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I remember donating money to the American Red Cross following 9/11 after a similar appeal for funds. Some double-dealing mouthpiece later tried to defend the decision to divert the money to administrative costs.


Red Cross has long been off my list since I met a regional RC big(medium?) wig in Denver. To say he was overpaid would be an understatement.


----------



## FeXL

Hadn't heard this angle.

REPORT: U.S. Navy Investigating If Nefarious Act Was Behind USS John McCain Crash



> _The military is examining whether compromised computer systems were responsible for one of two U.S. Navy destroyer collisions with merchant vessels that occurred in recent months, Vice Admiral Jan Tighe, the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, said on Thursday.
> 
> Naval investigators are scrambling to determine the causes of the mishaps, including whether hackers infiltrated the computer systems of the USS John S. McCain ahead of the collision on Aug. 21, Tighe said during an appearance at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington._​


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> Hadn't heard this angle.
> 
> REPORT: U.S. Navy Investigating If Nefarious Act Was Behind USS John McCain Crash


I would not be surprised if that was the case. Seems hard to believe this would happen more then once and even once seems far fetched.


----------



## FeXL

Just watched my last Bourdain show...

CNN Celebrity Chef Anthony Bourdain Says He Would Poison Trump’s Food



> But then the TMZ stringer asked what Bourdain would serve if he was asked to cater a dinner for President Trump.
> 
> Bourdain answered simply, “Hemlock,” appearing to admit he would poison the president if given the chance.


Look, I understand not liking a particular politician, or a few of them, or the whole lot of 'em. Fine. But you don't say stupid stuff like this anywhere it can be recorded, especially as a public figure.


----------



## CubaMark

*Immigration: California Crops Rot During Farmworker Shortage*

Vegetable prices may be going up soon, as a shortage of migrant workers is resulting in lost crops in California.

Farmers say they're having trouble hiring enough people to work during harvest season, causing some crops to rot before they can be picked. Already, the situation has triggered losses of more than $13 million in two California counties alone, according to NBC News.

The ongoing battle about U.S. immigration policies is blamed for the shortage. The vast majority of California's farm workers are foreign born, with many coming from Mexico. However, the PEW Research Center reports more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than coming here.

To make the jobs more attractive, farmers are offering salaries above minimum wage, along with paid time off and 401(k) plans, but even that's not proving enough.
(Fortune)​


----------



## Macfury

It's interesting that the left is cheesed when manufacturing jobs are outsourced on guest worker programs, and also cheesed when agricultural jobs are NOT outsourced on guest worker programs.

What this says is that the farmer's would rather let their crops rot than to pay a decent wage to have them picked. If farmers can't offer Americans enough money to work in agriculture, then it may be time to automate or get out of the farm business. 

I'd like to hear how much above minimum they're offering. This California web site shows many ag jobs at the state's $10.50 minimum wage with a few up to $15. 

https://www.indeed.com/q-Farm-Worker-l-California-jobs.html

That old Pew report is from 2015 (!) and refers to non-illegals.








CubaMark said:


> *Immigration: California Crops Rot During Farmworker Shortage*
> 
> Vegetable prices may be going up soon, as a shortage of migrant workers is resulting in lost crops in California.
> 
> Farmers say they're having trouble hiring enough people to work during harvest season, causing some crops to rot before they can be picked. Already, the situation has triggered losses of more than $13 million in two California counties alone, according to NBC News.
> 
> The ongoing battle about U.S. immigration policies is blamed for the shortage. The vast majority of California's farm workers are foreign born, with many coming from Mexico. However, the PEW Research Center reports more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than coming here.
> 
> To make the jobs more attractive, farmers are offering salaries above minimum wage, along with paid time off and 401(k) plans, but even that's not proving enough.
> (Fortune)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Immigration: California Crops Rot During Farmworker Shortage*
> 
> 
> 
> Vegetable prices may be going up soon, as a shortage of migrant workers is resulting in lost crops in California.
> 
> 
> 
> Farmers say they're having trouble hiring enough people to work during harvest season, causing some crops to rot before they can be picked. Already, the situation has triggered losses of more than $13 million in two California counties alone, according to NBC News.
> 
> 
> 
> The ongoing battle about U.S. immigration policies is blamed for the shortage. The vast majority of California's farm workers are foreign born, with many coming from Mexico. However, the PEW Research Center reports more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than coming here.
> 
> 
> 
> To make the jobs more attractive, farmers are offering salaries above minimum wage, along with paid time off and 401(k) plans, but even that's not proving enough.
> 
> (Fortune)​




All the jobs "real" Americans don't want.


----------



## Macfury

Let's see some "guest workers" from another country start taking teachers' jobs in Edmonton at $15,000 a year. Then when the board offers $25,000 to Canadians willing to replace them, we'll see how quickly teaching becomes a job that "real" Canadians don't want.



Freddie_Biff said:


> All the jobs "real" Americans don't want.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Let's see some "guest workers" from another country start taking teachers' jobs in Edmonton at $15,000 a year. Then when the board offers $25,000 to Canadians willing to replace them, we'll see how quickly teaching becomes a job that "real" Canadians don't want.




Yup. That will fix the California crops problem. Off topic much?


----------



## Macfury

Not off topic at all. FeXL would have understood the parallel in a half-second.

California doesn't have a crop problem. The problem is farmers who are not paying enough to attract workers. Like saying you have a "lawn problem" when nobody answers your ad to mow it for 50 cents per hour.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. That will fix the California crops problem. Off topic much?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Not off topic at all. FeXL would have understood the parallel in a half-second.
> 
> 
> 
> California doesn't have a crop problem. The problem is farmers who are not paying enough to attract workers. Like saying you have a "lawn problem" when nobody answers your ad to mow it for 50 cents per hour.



Or maybe those who would have done the work at a bargain price have left due to the hostile attitude of the Trump gov't toward migrant workers.


----------



## Macfury

They migrant workers were only here because farmers refused to pay Americans enough to pick produce. Would you like to see migrant workers from other countries used to teach high school in Alberta--some mighty good math instructors and they will work for half price, unless grumpy guys like you have a hostile attitude toward them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Or maybe those who would have done the work at a bargain price have left due to the hostile attitude of the Trump gov't toward migrant workers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They migrant workers were only here because farmers refused to pay Americans enough to pick produce. Would you like to see migrant workers from other countries used to teach high school in Alberta--some mighty good math instructors and they will work for half price, unless grumpy guys like you have a hostile attitude toward them.




I don't teach math, but again, thanks for going off topic so that a simpleton like me will understand your point.


----------



## Macfury

It's called an analogy--but I guess that doesn't come up much in music.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't teach math, but again, thanks for going off topic so that a simpleton like me will understand your point.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Not off topic at all. FeXL would have understood the parallel in a half-second.


I understood your analogy immediately.

That Freddie chose not to wasn't for lack of a clear example.


----------



## FeXL

"A wall won't work! It won't accomplish anythiiiing!!!"

Hungary Builds a Wall, Cuts Illegal Immigration by Over 99 Per Cent



> Speaking on the second anniversary of the government’s move to seal Hungary’s border with Serbia — which is also an external border for the European Union — Prime Minister Viktor Orbán’s Chief Security Advisor, György Bakondi, announced that the fences have caused illegal immigration to collapse from 391,000 in 2015, to 18,236 in 2016, to just 1,184 in 2017.


Or could it be that the Progs simply don't want to keep out illegal aliens...


----------



## Macfury

Many progs are afraid that the wall WILL work!


----------



## Macfury

Great UN speech by Trump:


> "The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented, but that socialism has been faithfully implemented. From the Soviet Union to Cuba to Venezuela, wherever true socialism or communism has been adopted, it has delivered anguish and devastation and failure.
> 
> "Those who preach the tenets of these discredited ideologies only contribute to the continued suffering of the people who live under these cruel systems."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Great UN speech by Trump:


No. "Typical" speech by Trump.

This has always been Washington's problem with regard to Cuba, and later, Venezuela: they see socialism as (x), where (x) is the Soviet Union. Their inability to look at the development of socialism in a non-Soviet context leads them to misinterpret and misunderstand pretty much everything about a given country's specific historical / cultural development and the path that led to socialism.

But I guess to a guy with a hammer, everything looks like a nail....









(Today, there are 200-million children in the world who sleep on the street. Not one of them is Cuban).​
**EDIT:* _This is not entirely true. I have no doubt that there are Cuban children sleeping on the streets... of Miami._​


----------



## FeXL

Not another "socialism has failed everywhere because it's never been implemented properly" speech... XX)



CubaMark said:


> Their inability to look at the development of socialism in a non-Soviet context leads them to misinterpret and misunderstand pretty much everything about a given country's specific historical / cultural development and the path that led to socialism.


----------



## FeXL

Not surprised. Except, reported on the Clinton News Network? :yikes:

Shocka...

Trump Vindicated: Report Says Obama Government Wiretapped Trump Campaign



> U.S. investigators wiretapped President Trump’s campaign chairman Paul Manafort, according to a report by CNN that vindicates the president’s earlier claims, which were mocked as a conspiracy theory.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs it when they start to eat their own.

'Liar! Liar!' Nancy Pelosi has to abandon press conference after illegal immigrants storm the room and scream Democrats are a 'deportation machine' collaborating with Trump



> A group of illegal immigrants and their supporters shouted down Rep. Nancy Pelosi, a San Francisco Democrat who serves as House Minority Leader, on Monday as she tried to speak about her support for the Obama-era DACA program.
> 
> Pelosi, a reliably liberal former Speaker of the House, recently met with Republican President Donald Trump to discuss a legislative compromise helping to protect people brought to the U.S. illegally as children.
> 
> But the activists, holding signs saying 'Democrats are deporters' and 'Fight 4 all 11 million' – a reference to the overall number of illegal immigrants thought to be living in the U.S. – wouldn't let her speak.
> 
> 'You're a liar! You're a liar!' they shouted, and 'Democrats created an out-of-control deportation machine!'


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> No. "Typical" speech by Trump.
> 
> This has always been Washington's problem with regard to Cuba, and later, Venezuela: they see socialism as (x), where (x) is the Soviet Union. Their inability to look at the development of socialism in a non-Soviet context leads them to misinterpret and misunderstand pretty much everything about a given country's specific historical / cultural development and the path that led to socialism.



No, I don't think only of Soviet Union socialism as a massive failure. And I don't care which pathway they used to get to hell--only the pathway required to get them out of there!




CubaMark said:


> (Today, there are 200-million children in the world who sleep on the street. Not one of them is Cuban).[/CENTER]


Sounds like: "At least Mussolini made the trains run on time."


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife's denial...

Hillary Using $800K In Campaign Funds For New Political Group



> Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton transferred just under a million dollars from her failed 2016 presidential campaign to her new political group, FEC filings show.
> 
> Hillary for America transferred $800,000 to Onward Together on May 1 — two weeks before Clinton even announced that she was launching the organization. The day after her campaign transferred the donor money to her new political organization, Clinton claimed she was now “part of the resistance” against President Trump.


Related:

Clinton leaves question mark over 2016 election legitimacy



> Hillary Clinton says she would not "rule out" questioning the legitimacy of the US presidential election if Russia is found to have deeply meddled.
> 
> The former secretary of state told NPR's Fresh Air programme, however, she did not believe there was a "mechanism" in place to challenge the outcome.


<snort> Still with the Russkies...

More:


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> No. "Typical" speech by Trump.
> 
> This has always been Washington's problem with regard to Cuba, and later, Venezuela: they see socialism as (x), where (x) is the Soviet Union. Their inability to look at the development of socialism in a non-Soviet context leads them to misinterpret and misunderstand pretty much everything about a given country's specific historical / cultural development and the path that led to socialism.
> 
> But I guess to a guy with a hammer, everything looks like a nail....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Today, there are 200-million children in the world who sleep on the street. Not one of them is Cuban).​
> **EDIT:* _This is not entirely true. I have no doubt that there are Cuban children sleeping on the streets... of Miami._​


How many people have died/murdered trying to leave Cuba?


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> How many people have died/murdered trying to leave Cuba?


Dissidents don't count...


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> How many people have died/murdered trying to leave Cuba?


Ask the United States. They're the ones who implemented a wide-open-door policy for Cubans (the Cuban Adjustment Act), which drew thousands to risk their lives to cross the Florida Strait for the reward of instant citizenship.

Funny how those who criticize Cuba for the _balseros_ phenomenon don't see the irony of the millions of migrants who attempt to cross the US/Mexico border.

But of course, those folks are just escaping poverty within a Capitalist economic context, so it doesn't count, right?

I've covered this topic _ad nauseam_ in previous threads, mostly with the departed MacNutt. Feel free to search for those posts, if you care to see the issue from another perspective.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> Ask the United States. They're the ones who implemented a wide-open-door policy for Cubans (the Cuban Adjustment Act), which drew thousands to risk their lives to cross the Florida Strait for the reward of instant citizenship.
> 
> Funny how those who criticize Cuba for the _balseros_ phenomenon don't see the irony of the millions of migrants who attempt to cross the US/Mexico border.
> 
> But of course, those folks are just escaping poverty within a Capitalist economic context, so it doesn't count, right?
> 
> I've covered this topic _ad nauseam_ in previous threads, mostly with the departed MacNutt. Feel free to search for those posts, if you care to see the issue from another perspective.


So it is Americas fault for accepting people, not Cuba's fault for not allowing them to leave and forcing them to risk their lives which they all thought was worth it to get out of Cuba?

There is no issue to discuss in my mind, any country that does not allow its citizens to leave freely without government hindrances has serious issues.


----------



## Macfury

I don't know why they would want to leave a paradise where Cuban children never sleep in the streets. Why isn't an infantalized life under iron-fisted government control more appealing to these poor fools?


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> So it is Americas fault for accepting people, not Cuba's fault for not allowing them to leave and forcing them to risk their lives which they all thought was worth it to get out of Cuba?
> 
> There is no issue to discuss in my mind, any country that does not allow its citizens to leave freely without government hindrances has serious issues.


Cubans have left Cuba all throughout the Revolution for travel, immigration, etc. People have always been "allowed to leave". The right-wing Flavour-Aid has contaminated far too many people who should be thinking a bit more clearly. There were restrictions placed on Cuban professionals, in particular, who had benefitted from free education to become doctors, engineers, etc., and they were expected to pay back that education through their labour and contribution to building the nation.

The USA and Cuba have migratory accords, as do all countries. 

If a Mexican wanted to come to Canada last year (it's since been dropped), they had to apply to the Canadian embassy for a visa, spend a gob of money, have a medical exam performed by a doctor recognized by the Canadian government, a letter from the Mexican judiciary indicating that they have no prior criminal history, etc. That's what my wife had to do in order to just visit Canada. When it comes time to try and emigrate, I wonder which appendage they'll ask for.

People cannot simply cross borders. That's why you have a passport and countries have rules and regulations. Cubans can't simply get on a plane and go anywhere... they need a visa for the country where they intend to visit / emigrate. As Canadians we rarely need to think about such things, but for the vast majority of people on this earth, international travel requires jumping through several hoops. And if you're "brown"? Add another layer of pain.

The USA and Cuba have had, as you might expect, a testy relationship. The aforementioned Cuban Adjustment Act granted any Cuban who made it to US territory (in 1994 the policy was altered in an ...interesting.... way) instant citizenship.

Given the fact that millions of Latin American citizens risk their lives to cross the desert of the Mexico / USA border, and they DON'T have the reward of instant citizenship awaiting them, who is the most desperate of these two groups? Do you not see that the USA absolutely can be blamed for dangling a magnet of citizenship in front of people who have been infected by the "American Dream" of streets paid with gold, the wonders of capitalism, etc. etc. bull****?

Now about those migratory accords: The USA has consistently over the decades failed to issue the agreed-upon number of immigrant visas to Cuban citizens. So on the one side the pull of citizenship, on the other the push of unfulfilled demand.

Should Cuba not abide by it's agreements, and throw open the doors for all Cubans who want to emigrate? Congrats, you've sparked another "Mariel boatlift", which provoked another confrontation between the USA and Cuba.

The simple fact is that persons living in the developing world will seek opportunities to improve their economic lot. The absolutely desperate in Latin America risk arrest, detention and death crossing into the USA for the chance to maybe work at the lowest paid of menial labour, because it's better than their opportunities in their home countries. Cuba's economic crises - aggravated in turn by the USA's decision in the early years of the Revolution to not honour agreements to purchase sugar quotas, to not refine oil imported from Soviet sources at Cuban-based (but American-owned) facilities, then the imposition of a far-reaching and punishing economic embargo (which goes SO far beyond simply banning US-Cuba trade), biological warfare (the introduction of swine flu which decimated Cuba's pork industry), through decades of rebuilding the nation after the professional class took off for Miami, then the fall of the Soviet Union and the COMECON trading bloc toward which Cuba's entire economy was oriented, and a tightening of the US embargo in the early 1990s (Helms-Burton / Torricelli)... well all of this sure as heck had an impact on Cuba's ability to feed its people and provide them with material comforts. In that context, how many of us would have stuck by our principles and not jumped at a chance to attain the coveted U.S. passport?

The situation is far more complex than any of you seem to appreciate. To say that Cuba / Castro's "repression" drove people to risk their lives in the deadly crossing of the Florida Strait is to ignore (purposefully?) geopolitics and intentional efforts to sabotage the Cuban economy from abroad.

Shall I go on?


----------



## Macfury

> Cubans have left Cuba all throughout the Revolution for travel, immigration, etc. People have always been "allowed to leave". The right-wing Flavour-Aid has contaminated far too many people who should be thinking a bit more clearly. There were restrictions placed on Cuban professionals, in particular, who had benefitted from free education to become doctors, engineers, etc., and they were expected to pay back that education through their labour and contribution to building the nation.


Prevented from leaving.


----------



## FeXL

Too bad refugees weren't subject to the same scrutiny...



CubaMark said:


> If a Mexican wanted to come to Canada last year (it's since been dropped), they had to apply to the Canadian embassy for a visa, spend a gob of money, have a medical exam performed by a doctor recognized by the Canadian government, a letter from the Mexican judiciary indicating that they have no prior criminal history, etc. That's what my wife had to do in order to just visit Canada. When it comes time to try and emigrate, I wonder which appendage they'll ask for.


Funny. It's happening in Kaybeck as I type...



CubaMark said:


> People cannot simply cross borders.


----------



## FeXL

Dems with Trump Derangement Syndrome a financial boon for therapists...

NYT Reporter Says She Knows People ‘Still In Therapy’ Over Clinton Election Loss



> New York Times reporter Yamiche Alcindor said Wednesday that she knows people who are “still in therapy” over former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s election loss to President Donald Trump.


Poor, widdle babies...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## FeXL

<sniff...>


----------



## Macfury

I've talked to a lot of victims of Obamacare. Middle class people forced to buy a $12,000 a year policy with a $12,000 deductible. Prices have skyrocketed since Bam colluded with the insurance companies to defraud the American people.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm not actually a fan of ObamaCare, as I've stated previously. I agree that it benefits insurance companies more than individuals. But that's never been the argument of the right-wingers, who go on about freedom and markets and bull**** like that. The only logical move to providing lower-cost, comprehensive and less expensive health care in the USA is a national socialized medical care system. Which will never happen, *'cause 'murica.*


----------



## Macfury

Socialism is not logical--it's deranged. The US hasn't has a free-market system since the early 1970s. It's crony capitalism exacerbated by left-leaning Democrats. You'd be giving up one form of government meddling for another--it's just that the costs would be hidden.


----------



## FeXL

Both parties to move on Facebook and other tech giants



> Members of Congress in both parties have begun exploring possible legislative action against Facebook and other tech giants, setting the stage for a potentially massive battle in the midterm election year of 2018.
> 
> Why it matters: Following revelations about fake news and paid Russian propaganda on Facebook during last year's election, big tech has become a big target, with politicians across the spectrum declaring on Sunday shows that more scrutiny, transparency and restrictions are needed.


I don't know if restrictions are the answer but they certainly need to be accountable.

Related:

Why Is Google Hiring 1,000 Journalists To Flood Newsrooms Around America?



> So what do you do when you fail to elect your chosen candidate and your former political allies and *mainstream media turn against you* by painting you not as the 'progressive', open-minded, friendly tech company that you used to be but as an evil, racist, Russian-colluding corporate villain intent upon destroying all that is sacred in the world? *Well, you just buy the media, of course.*


Links' bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Socialism is not logical--it's deranged. The US hasn't has a free-market system since the early 1970s. It's crony capitalism exacerbated by left-leaning Democrats. You'd be giving up one form of government meddling for another--it's just that the costs would be hidden.



You've lived in a mixed economy all your life if you've lived in Canada. Socialism is built in to your economic system. Why don't you move to the US if you think things are so much better there?


----------



## Macfury

Why would living in it all my life not make me want to reduce the socialist part of the economy to a nub? I am honourably working to change the system here!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You've lived in a mixed economy all your life if you've lived in Canada. Socialism is built in to your economic system. Why don't you move to the US if you think things are so much better there?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I think that the cartoon makes a great point, Given US military might, the Korean dictatator IS crazy to keep up this bluster.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I think that the cartoon makes a great point, Given US military might, the Korean dictatator IS crazy to keep up this bluster.


You have an ._...interesting._.... way of interpreting things.

One might make reference to rose-coloured glasses.


----------



## Dr.G.

I wondered when Sarah Palin was going to be "rewarded" for her support of Trump prior to the election.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—"Donald J. Trump on Friday capped a busy week of diplomatic activity by naming the former Alaska governor Sarah Palin the United States Ambassador to Nambia.

By naming Palin to this diplomatic post, the United States has become the first nation in the world to formally recognize Nambia’s existence.

In a joint appearance with Trump at the White House, Palin acknowledged that she “didn’t know a lot about Nambia” but said that she was looking forward to receiving a comprehensive briefing on the nation’s history, culture, and customs from the Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos.

“Then it’s Nambia, here I come!” Palin exclaimed.

In a sign that Palin’s appointment was a popular move, a new poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Americans support her permanent relocation to Nambia."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> I wondered when Sarah Palin was going to be "rewarded" for her support of Trump prior to the election.
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—"Donald J. Trump on Friday capped a busy week of diplomatic activity by naming the former Alaska governor Sarah Palin the United States Ambassador to Nambia.
> 
> 
> 
> By naming Palin to this diplomatic post, the United States has become the first nation in the world to formally recognize Nambia’s existence.
> 
> 
> 
> In a joint appearance with Trump at the White House, Palin acknowledged that she “didn’t know a lot about Nambia” but said that she was looking forward to receiving a comprehensive briefing on the nation’s history, culture, and customs from the Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos.
> 
> 
> 
> “Then it’s Nambia, here I come!” Palin exclaimed.
> 
> 
> 
> In a sign that Palin’s appointment was a popular move, a new poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Americans support her permanent relocation to Nambia."




Betsy DeVos? Talk about the blind leading the blind. Well, good luck to the two of them. And good luck to Namibia.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Betsy DeVos? Talk about the blind leading the blind. Well, good luck to the two of them. And good luck to Nambia.


It's poorly done satire, not a news article.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> It's poorly done satire, not a news article.


Of course it is not a serious news article, but it is still funny. A recent article had Pres. Trump sending DeVoss to North Korea to mess up their math curriculum so as to slow down their nuclear research.


----------



## FeXL

Well, Dr.G., that's your _opinion_...



Dr.G. said:


> Of course it is not a serious news article, but it is still funny.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Well, Dr.G., that's your _opinion_...


True. :lmao::clap::lmao: I like his writing in The New Yorker. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Freddie though it was a real country!


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Freddie though it was a real country!


So did Pres. Trump. He also said that Nambia has a great health care system.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie though it was a real country!




Can you please stop telling everyone what I think? You don't have a flucking clue, so politely back off. Your brain appears to be stuck in the mindset of a junior high student who tries to find someone he can bully. You should have outgrown that phase decades ago. Thank you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Namibia (not Nambia) is quite real, for the uninformed. 



> Namibia is a real country in southern African and on Wednesday it got its 15 minutes of fame in America after President Donald Trump mistakenly referred to it as “Nambia” at a United Nations summit in New York. And, you guess it, the moment went viral.



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...a-at-general-assembly-20170920-htmlstory.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

We know Namibia is a real country. Not Nambia. 

Do you really think you're being bullied here? It's a bit sad to hear you--a grown man --pissing and moaning like that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Can you please stop telling everyone what I think? You don't have a flucking clue, so politely back off. Your brain appears to be stuck in the mindset of a junior high student who tries to find someone he can bully. You should have outgrown that phase decades ago. Thank you.


----------



## CubaMark

They have the House. They have the Senate. They have the Presidency.

And they still can't kill ObamaCare.

If the stakes weren't so high for folks, especially those with pre-existing conditions, it would be laughable....

*'A hero again and again': How John McCain likely just ended the last-gasp Obamacare repeal bid* —CBC News


----------



## Macfury

McCain is not a hero, he's an establishment butt hole trying to play to the media. Obamacare will be gone soon regardless.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> They have the House. They have the Senate. They have the Presidency.
> 
> And they still can't kill ObamaCare.
> 
> If the stakes weren't so high for folks, especially those with pre-existing conditions, it would be laughable....
> 
> *'A hero again and again': How John McCain likely just ended the last-gasp Obamacare repeal bid* —CBC News


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

Here's that flatulent old RINO lying to voters:


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Here's that flatulent old RINO lying to voters:


Well, let us hope that his courage to say how he will vote early will help other Republicans to cast a no vote as well. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

McCain finds courage when he thinks he's going to get good media coverage. It can go either way. He should run as a Democrat next election.


----------



## FeXL

You left one small, tiny, niggling, insignificant detail out of that equation: RINO's...



CubaMark said:


> They have the House. They have the Senate. They have the Presidency.
> 
> And they still can't kill ObamaCare.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> McCain finds courage when he thinks he's going to get good media coverage. It can go either way. He should run as a Democrat next election.


That would be great. Hopefully, he will heed your suggestion .............. and live long enough to run once again.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> You left one small, tiny, niggling, insignificant detail out of that equation: RINO's...


What would you call Rand Paul?


----------



## Macfury

His state is one of the hardest hot by Obamacare. I don't think he would even survive the primary.



Dr.G. said:


> That would be great. Hopefully, he will heed your suggestion .............. and live long enough to run once again.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> His state is one of the hardest hot by Obamacare. I don't think he would even survive the primary.


It would depend who ran against him in the primary, mon ami. As well, I am not sure his health would allow him to run for another full 6 year term.


----------



## Rps

You know guys, it’s great to have an opinion on issues...especially issues which do not affect us, but one has to pause for a second and reflect that the GOP for 7years said they would kill the thing....but had no plan for replacement. Then, trying to kill it didn’t take the time to review the impact of recinding the law....( yes I know they do sound like our Liberals ).....so, as many of your collective comments are what I perceive to be ideologically driven., can we not agree that, no matter what your political view is, this process is flawed......and please do not blame Obama or the Dems, it isn’t them who are trying to kill the bill.


----------



## Macfury

There was a replacement planned. They are afraid of doing it now.



Rps said:


> You know guys, it’s great to have an opinion on issues...especially issues which do not affect us, but one has to pause for a second and reflect that the GOP for 7years said they would kill the thing....but had no plan for replacement. Then, trying to kill it didn’t take the time to review the impact of recinding the law....( yes I know they do sound like our Liberals ).....so, as many of your collective comments are what I perceive to be ideologically driven., can we not agree that, no matter what your political view is, this process is flawed......and please do not blame Obama or the Dems, it isn’t them who are trying to kill the bill.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> What would you call Rand Paul?


Paul is refusing to support a bill that involves that much government control of healthcare. McCain is a statist who likes to expand government.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

The Art of Dealing with it.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> There was a replacement planned. They are afraid of doing it now.


Well, from what I have read and heard from some of my contacts down south, the “ plan”was to rescind it and sometime later, maybe, bring in a new one. There was no replacement, if there was it could easily be an amended law.....which, of course, they did not try to do.....I mean the results speak for themselves.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Well, from what I have read and heard from some of my contacts down south, the “ plan”was to rescind it and sometime later, maybe, bring in a new one. There was no replacement, if there was it could easily be an amended law.....which, of course, they did not try to do.....I mean the results speak for themselves.


That was exactly the plan. It's as though they were sitting on their thumbs throughout Obama's term, bitching and complaining about the socialist Kenyan in power who was gonna taken their guns away, and were too distracted to actually do any work. But then, the plan of the Right is dominated by a singular ideological directive: remove government, let the market do the job, because it is the one, the only, the logical, the invisible hand, that will guide humanity to salvation. Amen. :lmao:

So the plan was and is simply: repeal, and forget about replacing.


----------



## CubaMark

:yikes: * This can't be good for The Donald *


*Nambia Withdraws From Covfefe Agreement*










*Kafka, Nambia* – The capital of this Sub-Saharan country is boiling over with rage. After finally being officially recognized by President Trump on the floor of the United Nations, the rest of the world turns its back on Nambia.

Major fake news outlets like CNN, the failing New York Times, and, yes, even the august the Flat Earth Gazette are incorrectly reporting Nambia is a non-country. Reporters are reassuring audiences that their ignorance of the globe is tiny in comparison to the that of the United States’ Commander-in-Chief.

This tiny nation dubbed the Iceland of Africa is fighting back.

First, Andrew Canard President of Nambia is unilaterally withdrawing from the Covfefe Agreement. Elected officials around the world are unaware of the significance of the 1880 Covfefe Conference that settles the underlying issues regarding world trade, Lizard People immigration, and sweet sweet covfefe.
(Patheos)​


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well, from what I have read and heard from some of my contacts down south, the “ plan”was to rescind it and sometime later, maybe, bring in a new one. There was no replacement, if there was it could easily be an amended law.....which, of course, they did not try to do.....I mean the results speak for themselves.


No, there were several concrete plans written up at various times over the past eight years, some better, some worse. However, it was a done deal that Obama would veto all of them.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> No, there were several concrete plans written up at various times over the past eight years, some better, some worse. However, it was a done deal that Obama would veto all of them.


This is in the realm of speculation....if they actually had plans they would have rolled them out...... I’m not pro or con Affordable Care, but if the GOP had workable plans why didn’t they bring forth amendments, this is only logical.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> :yikes: * This can't be good for The Donald *
> 
> 
> *Nambia Withdraws From Covfefe Agreement*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Kafka, Nambia* – The capital of this Sub-Saharan country is boiling over with rage. After finally being officially recognized by President Trump on the floor of the United Nations, the rest of the world turns its back on Nambia.
> 
> Major fake news outlets like CNN, the failing New York Times, and, yes, even the august the Flat Earth Gazette are incorrectly reporting Nambia is a non-country. Reporters are reassuring audiences that their ignorance of the globe is tiny in comparison to the that of the United States’ Commander-in-Chief.
> 
> This tiny nation dubbed the Iceland of Africa is fighting back.
> 
> First, Andrew Canard President of Nambia is unilaterally withdrawing from the Covfefe Agreement. Elected officials around the world are unaware of the significance of the 1880 Covfefe Conference that settles the underlying issues regarding world trade, Lizard People immigration, and sweet sweet covfefe.
> (Patheos)​


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> This is in the realm of speculation....if they actually had plans they would have rolled them out...... I’m not pro or con Affordable Care, but if the GOP had workable plans why didn’t they bring forth amendments, this is only logical.


A valid point, Rp. Or, they could work WITH the Democrats for the good of the WHOLE country. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> This is in the realm of speculation....if they actually had plans they would have rolled them out...... I’m not pro or con Affordable Care, but if the GOP had workable plans why didn’t they bring forth amendments, this is only logical.


It's not in the relm of speculation, The plans were written up and circulated to the public.


----------



## FeXL

Actions—>Consequences

Ravens, Jaguars players kneel during national anthem after Trump's attacks on NFL



> Dozens of NFL players for the Baltimore Ravens and Jacksonville Jaguars showed a unified front on Sunday and kneeled as the national anthem played during the start of their game in London, defying President Trump’s attacks on the league's athletes.


"Attacks." ROTFLMAO... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Just like in _The Replacements_: "A bunch of bitchy millionaires". Here's a tip for ya, boyz: there's a reason Kaepernick ain't been rehired...

Related.

Related, two:

Pittsburgh Steelers To Skip National Anthem, Remain In Locker Room



> “If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast,” Trump wrote. “Fire or suspend!”


Related, three:

CNN: Trump’s Attacks On Athletes Were ‘Racial’



> CNN’s Brian Stelter criticized President Donald Trump’s attacks on the NFL, National Anthem protesters, and NBA stars as “racial.”
> 
> “All of this has a racial component we can’t ignore,” Stelter told his colleague Fredricka Whitfield on CNN Saturday afternoon.


h/t BCF, who accompanied the link with this meme:


----------



## FeXL

Further on wiretapping Trump & Barry's legacy...

Obama’s Watergate



> ladimir Putin did not hack the election. Barack Obama did.
> 
> Donald Trump said earlier this year that the Obama Administration wiretapped his campaign. “Like I’d want to hear more from that fool?” President Obama scoffed.
> 
> But CNN reported on Monday, “US investigators wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election…. The government snooping continued into early this year, including a period when Manafort was known to talk to President Donald Trump.”
> 
> The network labeled their story an exclusive. But, in fact, Breitbart, radio host Mark Levin, the realDonaldTrump Twitter account, and numerous other sources reported the wiretapping more than six months ago.
> 
> In the wake of the belated bombshell, other voices at CNN hung on, precariously but unabashedly, to the dated narrative.


He sums:



> It also confirms something some Republicans have long suspected: Barack Obama regards his fellow Americans as the enemy. A government conducts surveillance on foreign enemies. *When one conducts surveillance on domestic critics, the government shows itself as unfit to govern.*


Bold mine.

Nails it.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Actions—>Consequences
> 
> Ravens, Jaguars players kneel during national anthem after Trump's attacks on NFL
> 
> 
> 
> "Attacks." ROTFLMAO... :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> Just like in _The Replacements_: "A bunch of bitchy millionaires". Here's a tip for ya, boyz: there's a reason Kaepernick ain't been rehired...
> 
> Related.


s


You do realise his adjusted QBR places him better than Newton and Manning and a numerous others....


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> You do realise his adjusted QBR places him better than Newton and Manning and a numerous others....


So, I had to look up QBR. I take it you mean Quarterback Rating? Never heard of it before.

And, it doesn't matter what his QBR is when the fans aren't attending the games or tuning their TV in, either. Anybody who starts turning pro sports into a political battle of wills will fail. You can't kick dirt in the faces of your supporters & expect them to come back looking for more.

NFL attendance is already dropping like a stone & it'll only get worse as more teams climb on the bandwagon. People are discovering that there are other things to do Mon night, Sun afternoon or whenever and that they can live without Pro football.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

U.S. B-1B Bombers Fly Just Off Coast Of North Korea: 4 Reasons Why This Time It's Different



> Just before North Korea’s foreign minister was due to address the United Nations, the Pentagon announced that U.S. Air Force B-1B Lancer bombers escorted by fighter jets flew in international airspace over waters east of North Korea on Saturday, in a show of force which "demonstrated the range of military options available to President Donald Trump." The flight was the farthest north of the demilitarized zone separating North and South Korea that any U.S. fighter jet or bomber has flown in the 21st century, the Pentagon added.


----------



## CubaMark

*The large parts of America left behind by today's economy*










U.S. geographical economic inequality is growing, meaning your economic opportunity is more tied to your location than ever before. A large portion of the country is being left behind by today's economy, according to a county-by-county report released this morning by the Economic Innovation Group, a non-profit research and advocacy organization. This was a major election theme that helped thrust Donald Trump to the White House.

Key findings:


New jobs are clustered in the economy's best-off places, leaving one of every four new jobs for the bottom 60% of zip codes.
57% of the national rise in business establishments and 52% of employment growth from 2011-2015 were in prosperous areas.
Most of today's distressed communities have seen zero net gains in employment and business establishment since 2000. In fact, more than half have seen net losses on both fronts.
Half of adults living in distressed zip codes are attempting to find gainful employment in the modern economy armed with only a high school education at best.
The healthier the economy, the healthier the person — people in distressed communities die five years earlier.

(Axios)​


----------



## eMacMan

I would suggest that those plummeting ratings are more related to the incessant 5 minute ad-blocks which prolong games well beyond three hours and sends viewers scurrying for something to do that sooner or later proves more entertaining than the game itself. I think in Canada not having OTA broadcasts has also hurt the Canadian product. 

I have reached the point where if a game interests me at all, I only tune in for the fourth quarter and stick around only if it is still close.

•••

Come to think of it when I was a kid they only broadcast the third period of hockey games, ads were white line drawings over the action and lasted only a few seconds. Most often flashed as teams were setting up for face-offs.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Come to think of it when I was a kid they only broadcast the third period of hockey games, ads were white line drawings over the action and lasted only a few seconds. Most often flashed as teams were setting up for face-offs.


I thought I was dreaming those. Remember seeing these little cartoons as a toddler.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And?

What's the cause?



CubaMark said:


> The large parts of America left behind by today's economy


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Standing at attention as he should! Isn't it great to see someone respecting their flag?


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Come to think of it when I was a kid they only broadcast the third period of hockey games, ads were white line drawings over the action and lasted only a few seconds. Most often flashed as teams were setting up for face-offs.





Macfury said:


> I thought I was dreaming those. Remember seeing these little cartoons as a toddler.


The broadcast types are really missing a bet here. In a typical quarter of Canadian football, there must be at least 20 short huddle breaks. Run a quick silent cartoon ad on one side of the wide screen during each of these and you have 80 ads worth of revenue during the game. Bonus you can run the replays at the same time. Limit the commercial timeouts to injuries and a one minute break after punts and kicks. You still get to broadcast those slicker commercials but with far less likelihood that the audience lumbers off to the head and/or the fridge.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Really trying hard to make him look unpatriotic? Why not just move forward on the video a bit and see him standing as you think he should:
Screen Shot 2017-09-25 at 1.32.31 PM by B P, on Flickr

sure it took a little nudge, but everyone should be happy at least right? These are the really important issues.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Really trying hard to make him look unpatriotic? Why not just move forward on the video a bit and see him standing as you think he should:
> 
> Screen Shot 2017-09-25 at 1.32.31 PM by B P, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> sure it took a little nudge, but everyone should be happy at least right? These are the really important issues.




At the very least, then, he's a little slow on the uptake. Kind of like looking directly at the sun with his naked eyes before dawning eye protection. To be fair, I suppose he COULD have left other parts naked and burned the retinas of all those watching him, so thank you, Mr. Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Man, that's weak sauce considering Wonderings just took you to the cleaners.



Freddie_Biff said:


> At the very least, then, he's a little slow on the uptake. Kind of like looking directly at the sun with his naked eyes before dawning eye protection. To be fair, I suppose he COULD have left other parts naked and burned the retinas of all those watching him, so thank you, Mr. Trump.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> At the very least, then, he's a little slow on the uptake. Kind of like looking directly at the sun with his naked eyes before dawning eye protection. To be fair, I suppose he COULD have left other parts naked and burned the retinas of all those watching him, so thank you, Mr. Trump.


You should be expanding the criticism then, a lot of high profile people did the exact same thing. Jimmy Kimmel with Paul Schaefer admitted to the exact same thing as I am sure countless others. While I do think Trump should not need a nudge, I do not think it is a huge deal, hardly worse then Obama taking selfies at a funeral. 

And how on earth did this Senator ever become President with such a lack of respect for America
anthem by B P, on Flickr


----------



## FeXL

To be fair, if that's the biggest scab you can pick, you ain't got much...



Freddie_Biff said:


> To be fair, I suppose he COULD have left other parts naked and burned the retinas of all those watching him, so thank you, Mr. Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> And how on earth did this Senator ever become President with such a lack of respect for America





> ...whether Senator Obama habitually declines to perform the hand-over-heart gesture, or whether there’s any particular meaning to the (non-)action, an Obama campaign spokesperson responded: “Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t. In no way was he making any sort of statement, and any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous.” The senator himself said that “My grandfather taught me when I was two. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing.”
> (Snopes)​


This "showing respect for the flag" is all hilariously medieval in any case. It's a piece of coloured cloth. There are far more important issues in play that deserve our attention.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> This "showing respect for the flag" is all hilariously medieval in any case. It's a piece of coloured cloth. There are far more important issues in play that deserve our attention.


I agree it is not an important thing to raise a fuss about, and yet people are. I merely drew attention to it as it was used to attack Trump, and while I am not against criticizing policies and actions, in these cases it always seems so very one sided and childish. 

It is a simple gesture though and if you are incapable of showing respect for your country because of the bigger issues then maybe you should not be in a position of leadership if that sort of multi-tasking is confusing or hard for you. Whether you think it dumb or not, there are people who hold it with high reverence and many who have fought and had brothers and sisters in arms die for that flag, they take it very seriously and why not show a bit, of respect for them, even if you disagree? Some would call it the being the bigger person.


----------



## Macfury

Is it any more hilarious than the medieval caste system in place in Cuba?



CubaMark said:


> This "showing respect for the flag" is all hilariously medieval in any case. It's a piece of coloured cloth. There are far more important issues in play that deserve our attention.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Is it any more hilarious than the medieval caste system in place in Cuba?


Should also be noted that you are really paying respect to the ideas and values the flag represents, it is the symbol of that. I am sure that is obvious, but you just never know. 

I feel very proud seeing our soldiers with the Canadian flag on their uniforms, not because the red and white go so well together or I really like the design of the leaf, but because of what they represent.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> You should be expanding the criticism then, a lot of high profile people did the exact same thing. Jimmy Kimmel with Paul Schaefer admitted to the exact same thing as I am sure countless others. While I do think Trump should not need a nudge, I do not think it is a huge deal, hardly worse then Obama taking selfies at a funeral.
> 
> 
> 
> And how on earth did this Senator ever become President with such a lack of respect for America
> 
> anthem by B P, on Flickr



To quote the commander in chief, there are a lot of sons of bitches out there.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Should also be noted that you are really paying respect to the ideas and values the flag represents, it is the symbol of that. I am sure that is obvious, but you just never know.
> 
> I feel very proud seeing our soldiers with the Canadian flag on their uniforms, not because the red and white go so well together or I really like the design of the leaf, but because of what they represent.


Exactly, the flag represents the foundations of the nation. It does not represent whichever crop of morons is in charge at the moment. It does not matter how many flags said morons wrap around themselves, the flag(s) do not represent them.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> To quote the commander in chief, there are a lot of sons of bitches out there.


is that the quote? It very well could be another one, but not that I have seen. I saw this on CNN:

"Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired. He's fired,'" Trump said. "You know, some owner is going to do that. He's going to say, 'That guy that disrespects our flag, he's fired.' And that owner, they don't know it [but] they'll be the most popular person in this country."

I don't have a real issue with it, again hyping up something that is not important.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> is that the quote? It very well could be another one, but not that I have seen. I saw this on CNN:
> 
> "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired. He's fired,'" Trump said. "You know, some owner is going to do that. He's going to say, 'That guy that disrespects our flag, he's fired.' And that owner, they don't know it [but] they'll be the most popular person in this country."
> 
> I don't have a real issue with it, again hyping up something that is not important.


It's important in that it distracts us from the actions of the morons at the top of the heap.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Should also be noted that you are really paying respect to the ideas and values the flag represents, it is the symbol of that. I am sure that is obvious, but you just never know.
> 
> I feel very proud seeing our soldiers with the Canadian flag on their uniforms, not because the red and white go so well together or I really like the design of the leaf, but because of what they represent.


Yep.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> is that the quote? It very well could be another one, but not that I have seen. I saw this on CNN:
> 
> 
> 
> "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired. He's fired,'" Trump said. "You know, some owner is going to do that. He's going to say, 'That guy that disrespects our flag, he's fired.' And that owner, they don't know it [but] they'll be the most popular person in this country."
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a real issue with it, again hyping up something that is not important.



I believe SOB was the operative phrase, yes.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> I feel very proud seeing our soldiers with the Canadian flag on their uniforms, not because the red and white go so well together or I really like the design of the leaf, but because of what they represent.


I have personal conflicts on this topic. My family last two members, one to each of the Great Wars. The first was particularly tragic, as (a) it was a damn stupid war, and (b) he had just emigrated to Canada 13 years earlier from Eastern Europe, only to go back and die there. His nephew and namesake was killed in Belgium in WWII (if you can get your hands on a copy, the very excellent "No Retreating Footsteps: The Story of the North Novas" by Will R. Bird is worth picking up for anyone who had relatives in the Novas and related units - the 1954 edition sells in the hundreds of dollars, but the reprint can be found for around $50 in Nova Scotia). I personally think military heritage is an important thing to preserve, and have been active in promoting this in Nova Scotia.

The contemporary problem is "what they represent". Canada continues to follow along at the heels of the USA, directly and indirectly supporting that country's wars of empire. People talk of our "NATO commitments" which has come to mean simply that we bomb where Washington tell us to bomb, and we buy aircraft and communications technology that is, if not the same, at least able to interoperate with US standards. 

I support our troops - I just don't support the stupid conflicts they are sent off to support. I favour a strong national defence force, a well-equipped Coast Guard and an effective northern monitoring / enforcement capability. 

But do I want Canadians to be dropping bombs on Syrian neighbourhoods and killing civilians? No damn way.

Blind adherence to nationalist ideology is dangerous. Blind adherence by one nation to the geo-political and economic agendas of another nation is foolhardy.

*A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. *​Napoleon Bonaparte​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Blind adherence to nationalist ideology is dangerous. Blind adherence by one nation to the geo-political and economic agendas of another nation is foolhardy.


I think treasonous as well. Our first loyalty is to our own nation, not to the US and certainly not to the Zionists who control American foreign policy.

As to fighting for ribbons, my Uncle had ribbons which were hidden in a drawer for almost 70 years. He took no pride in being a part of the fire-bombing of Tokyo. He was lucky as he was a chief gunnery officer and after the Tokyo raids, General LeMay had determined there was no airborne opposition, so most of the gunners were left behind to carry extra bombs. LeMay went on to fire bomb a total of 59 Japanese cities killing orders of magnitude more civilians than died in the nuclear blasts.


----------



## CubaMark

(Twitter)

*Related:* Inside The Bankruptcy of The Puerto Rican Golf Course Trump Managed


----------



## Macfury

More bizarre ramblings from the remarkably incurious CubaMark--who never seems to investigate his memes:

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnews...nald-trumps-puerto-rico-golf-bankrupt-106997/



> There's been some information floating around social media that Trump drove the former Trump International Golf Club in Puerto Rico into bankruptcy. And there's been an effort to link that course's bankruptcy to his administration's Puerto Rico response in the wake of Hurricane Maria.
> 
> Let's set the record straight.
> 
> The Puerto Rico golf club in question was -- and now is again -- called Coco Beach Golf & Country Club. The owner, Empress Diaz, used $25 million as proceeds from bonds sold by Puerto Rico's Tourism Development Fund to construct the 36-hole facility. That fund is backed by taxpayers, and the fiduciary responsibility falls on the fund to pay the bonds if the borrower defaults.
> 
> The original owners of the property went millions in debt in the first years of operating the club, and they sought Trump and the Trump Organization for help in righting the ship. In 2008, Trump came along in two ways, signing a licensing deal to put his name on the club for marketing purposes and signing a management deal to help the club run more efficiently and effectively. As most of these deals go in the golf industry, the management deal compelled the owners to pay Trump a fee to run the property and an incentive based on the profits of running the club.
> 
> In 2008, the PGA Tour created the Puerto Rico Open and brought it to the golf club. It was played opposite the WGC-Cadillac Championship, which was played until 2016 at Trump National Doral in Florida. However, the notoriety of being a PGA Tour stop and having Trump's name on the club couldn't help the owners overcome the initial debt problem, so they sought private bonds in 2011 to pay off the original debt from the Tourism Development Fund, touting Trump's involvement and turnaround plan in offering documents. The turnaround plan didn't work, and the club quickly began defaulting on the new bonds as the Trump miracle the owners apparently expected (unreasonably so) never manifested itself.
> 
> Four years later, the well had run dry, and the owners filed for bankruptcy protection as Coco Beach Golf & Country Club, claiming $78 million in debts against $9 million in assets.
> 
> The management and licensing deals with Trump were ended as part of the bankruptcy. The Trump Organization LLC for the deal filed for a payment claim of $927,000 in unpaid fees as part of the bankruptcy. The Tourism Development Fund filed a claim for $32.67 million for the real estate mortgage in 2015. The resort was sold for $2 million to a private equity firm, which manages the property now.
> 
> In other words, Trump really had little to do with taxpayers being left with $30-plus million in unpaid debts that they then had to payout to bond owners.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> More bizarre ramblings from the remarkably incurious CubaMark--who never seems to investigate his memes


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

Hey, CM, got something for ya...jes' a sec, I know it's here someplace...ah, here we go:



> Did you actually read the article? Typical wing [ignorance] and purposeful [stupidity]​




Sound familiar? I could go fetch a handful more that you've thrown at me over the years but I've more important things to do. Like clean out the cat box...

Maybe, just maybe, you should have checked a source that had a Sunshine Girl at the bottom of the page.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Maybe, just maybe, you should have checked a source that had a Sunshine Girl at the bottom of the page.


He's too busy mining the intellectual depth of Twitter.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> More bizarre ramblings from the remarkably incurious CubaMark--who never seems to investigate his memes:


I did, actually. Forbes provided corroboration. The Independent, which some of you consider a left-wing rag, takes a little more balanced approach, citing Politifact:

_While the bankruptcy did leave taxpayers with a huge bill, Politifact – an American fact checking organisation – judged that Mr Trump could at most only be held partly responsible, despite promising to turn the business around._​
I'll concede that Trump likely had little to do with the project and bears only partial blame for the debt facing Puerto Rico taxpayers.

How very interesting that folks prefer to focus their energies on finding any little thing that will undermine legitimate criticism of Trump, and not on the actual issue at hand: the Trump administration's lacklustre effort to provide post-hurricane aid and relief to a territory it occupies...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> How very interesting that folks prefer to focus their energies on finding any little thing that will undermine legitimate criticism of Trump, and not on the actual issue at hand: the Trump administration's lacklustre effort to provide post-hurricane aid and relief to a territory it occupies...


How very interesting that you chose to focus on the golf club.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> I did, actually. Forbes provided corroboration. The Independent, which some of you consider a left-wing rag, takes a little more balanced approach, citing Politifact:
> 
> _While the bankruptcy did leave taxpayers with a huge bill, Politifact – an American fact checking organisation – judged that Mr Trump could at most only be held partly responsible, despite promising to turn the business around._​
> I'll concede that Trump likely had little to do with the project and bears only partial blame for the debt facing Puerto Rico taxpayers.
> 
> How very interesting that folks prefer to focus their energies on finding any little thing that will undermine legitimate criticism of Trump, and not on the actual issue at hand: the Trump administration's lacklustre effort to provide post-hurricane aid and relief to a territory it occupies...


How very interesting that you want to blow up .04% (Trumps supposed 33 million dollar cost to Puerto Rico) of Puerto Rico's debt (70 billion dollars). Even if Trump were to blame, it is a drop in the bucket for their financial problems. I am not saying it is right, but to even say that Trump had an effect on their debt is a bit much. So really, Trump has little to do with Puerto Rico's financial problems. The tweeter is upset at Trump, when I skimmed through some of her tweets there was mention of family members, or friends of the family who were effected and it seems she was a bit emotional about the whole thing and wanted to find someone to blame.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> ...The tweeter is upset at Trump, when I skimmed through some of her tweets there was mention of family members, or friends of the family who were effected and it seems she was a bit emotional about the whole thing and wanted to find someone to blame.


*Right.*  Because she's the only person out there who thinks Trump's response to Puerto Rico's Hurricane damage is insufficient.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Right.*  Because she's the only person out there who thinks Trump's response to Puerto Rico's Hurricane damage is insufficient.


Not saying that at all, but the attack is juvenile and without merit. If Trump did do what she said and is completely guilty as she said it, his bankrupt money would not be a drop in the bucket for finances in Puerto Rico.


----------



## Macfury

My beef is with you, for uncritically choosing that particular wrong-headed message--when you could have reasonably approached the issue in an objective fashion.

And frankly I have no way of knowing whether the US is underserving Puerto Rico in disaster relief efforts. What is the assessment of damage? What is needed where? Supply ships have been dispatched to Puerto Rico and military and FEMA forces are already conducting relief work.



CubaMark said:


> *Right.*  Because she's the only person out there who thinks Trump's response to Puerto Rico's Hurricane damage is insufficient.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> My beef is with you, for uncritically choosing that particular wrong-headed message--when you could have reasonably approached the issue in an objective fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> And frankly I have no way of knowing whether the US is underserving Puerto Rico in disaster relief efforts. What is the assessment of damage? What is needed where? Supply ships have been dispatched to Puerto Rico and military and FEMA forces are already conducting relief work.




How dare they! According to Trump and half of America, Puerto Ricans aren't even US citizens.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-puerto-ricans-are-fellow-citizens/ar-AAsudzw


----------



## Macfury

Where in the article does it say that Trump thinks Puerto Ricans are not citizens?



Freddie_Biff said:


> How dare they! According to Trump and half of America, Puerto Ricans aren't even US citizens.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-puerto-ricans-are-fellow-citizens/ar-AAsudzw


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

It's interesting how a gag like that is aimed at people who expect government to give them "free" stuff. But at $5 to $11 a day, with no minimum wage, North Korea is not exactly a "fair wage" leader. Also, Kim supports North Korean Imperialism so it might be better if it said "US Imperialism." It's fixed now.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It's interesting how a gag like that is aimed at people who expect government to give them "free" stuff. But at $5 to $11 a day, with no minimum wage, North Korea is not exactly a "fair wage" leader. Also, Kim supports North Korean Imperialism so it might be better if it said "US Imperialism." It's fixed now.


I am curious as to what territory or Island Kim has actually attacked or invaded? I can name dozens whom have been mauled by the US or its proxies post 9-11, but I cannot name a single victim of Kim other than North Korea itself. 

I do not like Kim but have ample examples as to how much worse off nations can be after the US fixes their leadership issue.


----------



## Macfury

None so far. It claims to own South Korea, but is too weak to make good on it.



eMacMan said:


> I am curious as to what territory or Island Kim has actually attacked or invaded? I can name dozens whom have been mauled by the US or its proxies post 9-11, but I cannot name a single victim of Kim other than North Korea itself.
> 
> I do not like Kim but have ample examples as to how much worse off nations can be after the US fixes their leadership issue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And frankly I have no way of knowing whether the US is underserving Puerto Rico in disaster relief efforts.


The Media's Cooking Up a #FakeNews Katrina Narrative for Puerto Rico, Despite Trump Actually Sending Lots of Aid



> _Article after article condemned Trump for focusing on the NFL (in tweets) instead of Puerto Rico (in tweets). Leftist after leftist also began claiming the damage in Puerto Rico would be Trump’s "Katrina," in reference to the hurricane that devastated the Gulf Coast during President George W. Bush’s administration.
> 
> The Daily Beast published an article titled "Puerto Rico has become Trump’s Katrina." Vox writer and Gaza bridge expert Zack Beauchamp tweeted out an article from his employer and wrote that it was "hard" to read the article "without concluding that Puerto Rico is actually Trump’s Katrina." FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver also noted "Some obvious parallels to Katrina here."
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> As it turns out, it was the media ignoring Puerto Rico--not Trump.
> 
> *PBS’' John Yang spoke to Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello about the help he has received from the states. Rosselo immediately said he was "very grateful for the administration" and that "they have responded quickly."*_​
> Read Ashe Schow's article -- *the governor is pretty generous in his praise of the federal response.*


Yeah, bold mine.

'Course, Bill's Wife climbed out of the gin bottle long enough to make a fool of herself. Coupla yuks at her expense at the link, including this one:



> Fat, drunk, and Not President is no way to go through life, gram-gram.


In addition, this interesting, salient & very pointed...point:



> Update: A Benghazi survivor, Kris "Tonto" Paronto, replied to Chardonnay Sharon as well:
> 
> _Wish u had that sense of urgency while u were watching the ISR feed during our 5th firefight in B-ghazi 😑or did u not consider us Americans? https://t.co/Fb0BlftP1J
> — Kris Paronto (@KrisParonto) September 26, 2017_​


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> The Media's Cooking Up a #FakeNews Katrina Narrative for Puerto Rico, Despite Trump Actually Sending Lots of Aid



Right..... except in Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello's own words:

_*SAN JUAN, P.R.* — Gov. Ricardo A. Rosselló of Puerto Rico said on Monday that the island was on the brink of a “humanitarian crisis” nearly a week after Hurricane Maria knocked out its power and most of its water, and left residents waiting in excruciating lines for fuel. He called on Congress to prevent a deepening disaster.

Stressing that Puerto Rico, a United States commonwealth, deserved the same treatment as hurricane-ravaged states, the governor urged Republican leaders and the federal government to move swiftly to send more money, supplies and relief workers. It was a plea echoed by Puerto Rico’s allies in Congress, who are pushing for quick movement on a new relief bill and a loosening of financial debt obligations for the island, which is still reeling from a corrosive economic crisis.

“Puerto Rico, which is part of the United States, can turn into a humanitarian crisis,” Governor Rosselló said. “To avoid that, *recognize that we Puerto Ricans are American citizens; when we speak of a catastrophe, everyone must be treated equally.*”

And Mr. Rosselló did not mince words about the potential impact on the mainland, where Puerto Ricans are expected to arrive in droves to escape the post-Maria hardships they will face on the island, including a shortage of already hard-to-find jobs.

“If we want to prevent, for example, a mass exodus, we have to take action. Congress, take note: Take action, permit Puerto Rico to have the necessary resources,” Mr. Rosselló said._​
(bold mine)

That doesn't sound like a Governor who is entirely pleased with the speed of the USA's response to the disaster. And the waiver of the Jones Act was only done *this morning*, more than a week after Hurricane María devastated the already-hurting US territory following Hurricane Irma. That waiver came following a LOT of criticism of Trump for not acting sooner.

Whatever Gov. Rosselló is saying now, it's his political face, not wanting to be publicly pissed while holding out his hand for help. But I guarantee, behind closed doors he's cursing that Orange S.O.B.


----------



## CubaMark

_And the news report prior to this morning's belated waiver of the Jones Act:_

*Trump: "A Lot Of Shippers" Don't Want Me To Waive The Jones Act To Help Puerto Rico*

WASHINGTON ― President Donald Trump said Wednesday that he’s considering waiving the Jones Act for Puerto Rico ― an arguably outdated law that imposes exorbitant shipping costs on the island ― but tempered his support for it because he’s getting pushback from the shipping industry.

“We’re thinking about that,” he said at a White House press event. “But we have a lot of shippers and … a lot of people who work in the shipping industry that don’t want the Jones Act lifted. And we have a lot of ships out there right now.”

The 1920 law requires that all goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by American-owned and operated ships, which are more expensive vessels than others in the global marketplace. That means Puerto Rico has to pay double the costs for goods from the U.S. mainland compared with neighboring islands ― and that U.S. vessels are making bank. The law costs Puerto Rico hundreds of millions of dollars every year, and now, in the midst of a humanitarian crisis, the costs to import food, fuel and other supplies will spike amid the island’s economic devastation.

(Washington Post)​


----------



## FeXL

Understandably, I'm thinking that in the middle of a disaster there's no speed for supplies that is quick enough.



CubaMark said:


> That doesn't sound like a Governor who is entirely pleased with the speed of the USA's response to the disaster.


----------



## Macfury

The Jones Act can only be waived if framed in the context of strategic reasons. It should have been taken off the books years ago.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The Jones Act can only be waived if framed in the context of strategic reasons. It should have been taken off the books years ago.


...and yet, it has been waived. This morning. What was the strategic reason Trump stated to do so?


----------



## Macfury

Mattis first OK'ed the waiver as of strategic importance, but no reason reported in the media.



CubaMark said:


> ...and yet, it has been waived. This morning. What was the strategic reason Trump stated to do so?


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:*

Trump: Puerto Rico is "an island surrounded by ... big water" | MSNBC
Trump’s Puerto Rico revelations: Surrounded by “big water” | Salon

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZuy_LuwTFE[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

*What a piece of work is Trump, how limited in reason,
how finite in faculties, in form and sloughing how dillying
and dallying, inaction how like a child, in accusation how like
a dud! *​

Context: 
Trump says Puerto Rico mayors 'want everything done for them' - World - CBC News
'Close to genocide': San Juan mayor's dire appeal to US for Puerto Rico relief – The Guardian UK


----------



## Macfury

Except the US response seems reasonable to me.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Except the US response seems reasonable to me.


This sounds correct based on what I've read. Some are intent on making this Trump's Katrina, but they are assuming the conclusion, not evaluating reality. Tough situation, reasonable response, lessons to be learned for the next time.

I blame Russia. beejacon


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> This sounds correct based on what I've read. Some are intent on making this Trump's Katrina, but they are assuming the conclusion, not evaluating reality. Tough situation, reasonable response, lessons to be learned for the next time.
> 
> I blame Russia. beejacon


I thought so...

San Juan Mayor to Liberal Media: We Are Getting No Help From Trump - As She Stands In Front of Pallets of Aid


----------



## Beej

This is consistent with political derangement. You can't discuss positive and negative attributes. You must always -- 24/7 -- be fighting a moral war. 

Related, I've seen conflicting sentiment from a mayor and the governor. This suggests someone is looking at election prospects more than helping their people.


----------



## Beej

> "Close to genocide"


Promoting the misuse of the term "genocide" is painfully inept. Please don't dilute how we identify evil.


----------



## FeXL

There goes the Puerto Rico narrative...

Will Media's Attempt to Make Puerto Rico "Trump's Katrina" Be The Media's Own Katrina?



> _“It’s a lack of drivers for the transport trucks, the 18-wheelers," Col. Michael Valle, who is in charge of the Hurricane Maria relief efforts,told The Huffington Post. "There are ships full of supplies, backed up in the ports, waiting to have a vehicle to unload into. However, only 20% of the truck drivers show up to work. These are private citizens in Puerto Rico, paid by companies that are contracted by the government.”_​


----------



## FeXL

Actions—>Consequences.

NFL Fan Poll: 80 Percent Say They’ll Watch Less Football, 53 Percent Support Trump More



> The National Football League (NFL) may have more than a passing controversy on its hands as it continues to grapple with fans’ reaction to the players and staff “take a knee” protest during the national anthem before games.


More:

NFL Favorability Gets Nearly Cut In Half After Anthem Protests



> A new poll shows that the favorability rating of the NFL among Donald Trump supporters was nearly cut in half after more than 200 players kneeled during the national anthem last week.
> 
> Morning Consult conducted the survey, and the results are a very bad sign for the NFL.


Related:

Local high school football players kicked off team after protest during anthem



> Two Victory & Praise Christian Academy football players were kicked off the team for protesting during the national anthem at a game Friday night.
> 
> Cedric Ingram-Lewis raised his fist while cousin Larry McCullough knelt during the anthem ahead of the team's game against Providence Classical.
> 
> After the anthem ended, head coach Ronnie Mitchem instructed them to take off their uniforms and kicked them off the team. Mitchem is a former Marine and pastor who started the church-based football program in Crosby six years ago.


Good.


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> Actions—>Consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Good.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

Passive-agressive asshole.

_"Now I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you've thrown our budget a little out of whack," Trump said jokingly at one point, "because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico, and that's fine. We've saved a lot of lives."_

(NPR)​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Passive-agressive asshole.
> _"Now I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you've thrown our budget a little out of whack," Trump said jokingly at one point, "because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico, and that's fine. We've saved a lot of lives."_
> 
> (NPR)​


Those of who have figured out that CNN is essentially shoveling 5#!t, already knew this. 



FeXL said:


> There goes the Puerto Rico narrative...
> 
> Will Media's Attempt to Make Puerto Rico "Trump's Katrina" Be The Media's Own Katrina?


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> There goes the Puerto Rico narrative...
> 
> Will Media's Attempt to Make Puerto Rico "Trump's Katrina" Be The Media's Own Katrina?


Nice job......you forgot to post that the drivers can’t get there due to the destruction.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Nice job......you forgot to post that the drivers can’t get there due to the destruction.


That was mentioned in one of the stories linked inside.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> That was mentioned in one of the stories linked inside.


Yes, but your post leads one to believe “they don’t show up” in other words burying the headline....selective no.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Yes, but your post leads one to believe “they don’t show up” in other words burying the headline....selective no.


Well, it's both but point taken.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the sitters & kneelers hemorrhaging viewers.

Ouch! NFL TV ratings drop again as angry fans exercise their own rights



> This game though drew 13% fewer viewers than last week. And the drop was worse — 16% — in the key demo that ad buyers covet.


Also, advertisers:



> Perhaps even more disturbing for the 32 billionaire team owners, another sponsor pulled its ads over the protest controversy.
> 
> Said Steve Kalafer, a mega-car-dealer and baseball team owner in New Jersey...


Read somewhere this morning that AB InBev (Budweiser's parent company) was deciding if they should spend further ad cash with the NFL. Got no love for them but understand entirely if they drop the NFL.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

A Liberal filmmaker making advances on impressionable young actresses finally gets called out & who defends him?



> Remember Lisa Bloom? Well, she was shootin'-mad about Trump's pussy-grabbing comments and the various accusers who suddenly accused him in peak election cycle.
> 
> So I guess it's no surprise that she's representing some of Harvey Weinstein's accusers.
> 
> Wait a minute -- I mean she's representing _Harvey Weinstein_ himself and defending him, offering up the same "dinosaur in an age of mammals" bull**** he did.


That's just the punchline. I expect we'll hear the cries of foul from the left Real Soon Now.

The rest of the story is here:

Harvey Weinstein, Continued

Now, I got no love for most of Hollyweird & their seriously screwed up politics, but no budding actress/actor deserves to get treated like this.

Funny thing is, Weinstein is suing The Paper of Record for $50 million for exposing him, as it were:



> 50 million buys almost 100 Hillary Clinton speeches, so that's real money.


<snort...>


----------



## FeXL

Further on the above, as the hypocritical Democrats get involved.

Hurricane Harvey Makes Landfall in Democrat Party



> Harvey Weinstein's lawyer gave $10,000 to Manhattan DA after the DA failed to file sexual harassment charges against him. _Oh._ How cozy.


More:



> David Boies was Gore's recount lawyer. Apparently he's been a big cash-money bestest friend of the DA who presides over the jurisdiction where a lot of his other Democrat friends live. That must all work out nicely for them.
> 
> Even CNN's partisan retard Chris Cillizza grasps that this is all a problem for Democrats. Not even a "Republicans pounce" headline.
> 
> _It seems like Weinstein's boorish behavior -- to put it mildly -- was an open secret in the circles he ran in. The prevailing sentiment when the New York Times published its piece was not "WOW!" but rather "Finally!"
> 
> That's important. If everyone around Weinstein knew about his inappropriate conduct around women, why were so many Democratic politicians willing to pal around with him and/or accept his money?_​


Related (language warning):

Harvey Weinstein Didn't Just Buy and Own the Official Democrat Party -- He Also Bought and Owned the Unofficial One, the Media



> _I have been having conversations about Harvey Weinstein's history of sexual harassment for more than 17 years.
> 
> The conversations started when I was a young editorial assistant at Talk, the magazine he financed, in 1999; back then it was with young people, friends -- women and men -- who worked for him, at Miramax, and told tales of hotel rooms, nudity, suggestion, and coercion, and then of whispered payoffs, former assistants who seemingly dropped off the face of the Earth. _​
> Right now the media is trying to pretend sugar wouldn't melt in its mouth.


Related, too:

Democrats circle the wagons to protect another lecher – this time, Harvey Weinstein



> Just as it once did for Bill Clinton in the wake of all his sex harassment scandals, the Democratic Party establishment is closing ranks to defend another big lecher among its members, this time Democratic Party mega-donor and Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, in complete contravention to their stated ideals about "equality."
> 
> *You'd think a guy like Weinstein would be a pariah if Democrats actually believed any of their stated platform about women's rights.* But noooo...the fact that Lanny Davis, Anita Dunn, Lisa Bloom, and other regulars from the Democratic Party have leaped forward to help Weinstein beat back bad press about his long and atrocious record of sexual harassment testifies to just how important Weinstein is to their rice bowl. It's not Hollywood that's defending Weinstein; it's Democrats.


More:



> The Beacon calculated that Weinstein has given Democrats $600,000 since the early 2000s.
> 
> *Now that it's clear that money for Democrats is at stake – and not just for Clinton and Obama, but for Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, Kristen Gillibrand, Richard Blumenthal, Al Franken, Elizabeth Warren, Dick Durbin, and others cited by the Beacon, the picture couldn't be more obvious.*


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL

And a little bit more on the deafening silence from the left (the iron...).

Many Democrats Remain Silent on Harvey Weinstein Donations



> Top Democrats who received campaign donations from Harvey Weinstein have yet to condemn his support, since the movie mogul was accused of longtime sexual harassment against women.


In fairness, there have been a couple of Dems address this. That said, I jes' luvs how the DNC turns their observations into more Trump bashing, rather than anything critical of Weinstein...

Related:

The White Male Consciences of the Nation: Nation's Beloved Leftwing Late Night Clowns Somehow Omit Any Commentary on the Story of the Day, Harvey Weinstein



> _Ashley Judd, the most famous victim of Weinstein’s predatory behavior, is an ardent pro-choice feminist activist who led the rally of the “resistance” pink hat march on Washington in January by proclaiming she was a “Naaaaaaaaaasty woman” and went on to speculate about the president’s nocturnal emissions while fantasizing about his own daughter. It was some sick stuff that left many wondering to themselves “Wow, what happened to Ashley Judd?”
> 
> Now we know what happened to her. Harvey Weinstein happened to her. And at the time, according to the Times report, as she was being preyed upon by a bathrobe-clad Weinstein begging for a massage or for her to watch him shower (talk about Sophie’s Choice) Judd’s over-riding concern was not “alienating Harvey Weinstein” while escaping his Cosby-esque advances.
> 
> *Has she channeled that anger and humiliation and fear at the industry that allowed it? Or at the man and his multi-million dollar corporation that enabled it? No. Her real enemies are Republicans. Don’t you get it?*_​


Well, of course it is.

Related, 2:

EXCLUSIVE: Hillary supporter Harvey Weinstein thinks a 'right wing conspiracy out to get me' is reason he has been revealed as serial sexual harasser



> Harvey Weinstein believes the allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour against him are part of a right-wing 'conspiracy' to take him down, DailyMail.com can reveal.
> 
> The Hollywood mogul thinks that shadowy right wing forces are 'out to get me' and that he is being targeted for his liberal views.
> 
> In an echo of his close friend Hillary Clinton's notorious claim that 'a vast right-wing conspiracy' was out to get her and her husband, the Democratic supporter is making the claim to those around him - despite his admission
> 
> *Weinstein believes a team of lawyers linked to conservative groups have been digging up dirt on him and that other prominent Democrat supporters will be attacked next.*


Personally, I think it's the Russkies... 

Related, 3:

Nolte: Silence is Complicity – The Powerful Said Nothing as Harvey Weinstein’s Alleged Victims Piled Up

In sum:



> These are bad people who allowed a bad man to get away with doing bad things for as long as he was useful to them — as long as the price paid by the Ohio girls was made up for in campaign donations to The Cause.
> 
> Rotting leftwing Hollywood, the co-opted entertainment media, the Democrat Party and its national media enablers… a wicked and entrenched system, enablers all, who are every bit as guilty as good ole’ Harvey.


All bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Pardon me while the German half of my heritage enjoys a little schadenfreude...

Hillary Tells of Screaming Into Pillow, Election Night Shock



> Whilst discussing the inauguration of President Trump, asked if she wanted to scream, Clinton told RTÉ, “Oh, I did. But that was a common occurrence in those days. You know, scream into the pillow when I saw what was happening.”


More:



> ‘’I just thought, ‘I’ve let everybody down, I’ve let my country down, I’ve let the world down. How did this happen?” Clinton recalled.


On the contrary, you've made a great many people extremely happy...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> On the contrary, you've made a great many people extremely happy...


I count my blessings every day that she was not elected. I may have forgotten to give thanks regularly by now, but her constant screeching presence keeps her on my mind.


----------



## FeXL

So, further on the echo chamber from the compassionate, intellectual, _feminist_, left...

Weinstein, Las Vegas, and the venality of the left



> Is there anything that more elegantly epitomizes the obscene hypocrisy of the Democrat elites – and their slavish servility to the Hollywood left and its money – than their unconditional worship of sexual predator Harvey Weinstein? If all reports are true, his depravity has been a known fact for decades. Still, Democrats like the Clintons, Schumer, Elizabeth Warren, and a host of others gladly took hundreds of thousands of dollars of his money and kept their mouths shut. *These supposed champions of women are nothing but sanctimonious frauds.*


And it ain't just the Dem elites...

Related:

Harvey Weinstein and the Death of 'Feminism'



> You don't need the Harvey Weinstein scandal to know that Hollywood is the world's capital of do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do hypocrisy. You only need to be breathing.
> 
> From jetting the globe more frequently in private planes than most people go to the supermarket while inveighing against global warming to living in thirty million dollar homes and sending your kids to posh private schools while assailing school choice for the masses to, yes, making movies about sexual assault while assaulting females for decades in the privacy of their offices and swank hotel rooms, Hollywood has done it all!
> 
> And indeed it has been this way for decades and everybody who lives and works here knows it. The casting couch never went away. It just moved off the studio lot, for the most part, and went underground, sort of.
> 
> *Anyone who takes seriously anything said about politics by Hollywood types -- and that includes those tedious and increasingly unfunny individuals known as late-night talk show hosts -- ought to have his/her proverbial head examined.*


And, I jes' luvs it when even more Prog rats leave a sinking ship:

Attorney Lisa Bloom Drops Harvey Weinstein As Sexual Harassment Allegations Escalate

Subtitled: "A Friday report alleged the media mogul trapped a woman in a hallway and masturbated in front of her."



> The high-profile attorney Lisa Bloom is stepping down from her role as an adviser to Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein, who has been accused by numerous women of sexual harassment, Bloom told HuffPost on Saturday.


All bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

The fallout continues.

Through Week 4, the NFL Shows Massive Viewer Loss Among All Key Demos



> The NFL is not just losing white viewers. The NFL isn’t just losing black viewers. No, the NFL is hemorrhaging viewers of all races and ages, and they’re doing so at a frightening pace.
> 
> With the NFL’s Week 4 in the rear-view mirror, a review of TV ratings through the league’s first month show that the NFL has lost millions of viewers year-over-year, a decline that has picked up speed so far this year. As Awful Announcing recently put it, “It seems everyone is mad at the NFL.”
> 
> Overall, viewership is down seven percent over 2016, which is bad enough for the league. However, this year’s slippage is not the first. Indeed, 2016 — the year of the first national anthem protests — saw a nine percent decline over 2015.


Would the last person kneeling please turn out the lights?


----------



## Macfury

It cracks me up when commentators think that the viewers are leaving over the issues that the kneelers are protesting. 

I would have more respect for them if they kneeled throughout the entire game, and put their livelihoods on the line for what they believe in.



FeXL said:


> The fallout continues.
> 
> Through Week 4, the NFL Shows Massive Viewer Loss Among All Key Demos
> 
> 
> 
> Would the last person kneeling please turn out the lights?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It cracks me up when commentators think that the viewers are leaving over the issues that the kneelers are protesting.
> 
> I would have more respect for them if they kneeled throughout the entire game, and put their livelihoods on the line for what they believe in.


It seems unlikely that this has anything to do with anthem protests. I would bet that half the viewers don't bother tuning in until after the anthem. 

I think it has far more to do with paying mediocre players 10s of millions of dollars to bomb on the field. On the TV side incessant commercial breaks destroy the flow. Can't even imagine how that impacts the live viewer, but it can't be a positive experience on those days when it's raining, or the temps are below zero and the wind whips through the stands.

FWIW I think the CFL is a better product, but I am hardly a slave to the CFL either, and the comments about ads apply equally there.


----------



## Macfury

Politicization of football has been identified by fans as a reason they stop watching.



eMacMan said:


> It seems unlikely that this has anything to do with anthem protests. I would bet that half the viewers don't bother tuning in until after the anthem.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Politicization of football has been identified by fans as a reason they stop watching.


This.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes. The Queen of home-rolled, unsecured, bathroom closet servers & unencrypted cell phones, lecturing everybody else on cyber-sovereignty.

Linky.



> [email protected] just gave a terrific speech on how to defend our cyber sovereignty.


"Like with a cloth?"

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on the kneelers:

Mike Pence leaves NFL game after about 20 San Francisco 49ers take a knee during anthem



> Vice President Mike Pence left Sunday's game between the Indianapolis Colts and the San Francisco 49ers over disgust at players protesting during the national anthem.
> 
> "I left today's Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem," Pence tweeted.


Related:

Shock poll: NFL now least liked sport, core fans down 31%



> Over just one month of player, coach, and owner protests of the flag and National Anthem, the National Football League has gone from America's sport to the least liked of top professional and college sports, according to a new poll.
> 
> From the end of August to the end of September, the favorable ratings for the NFL have dropped from 57 percent to 44 percent, and it has the highest unfavorable rating – 40 percent – of any big sport, according to the Winston Group survey provided exclusively to Secrets.
> 
> Worse for football, which was already seeing lower TV ratings and empty stadium seats, the month of protests and complaints about them from President Trump drove core fans, men 34-54, away, the most significant indicator that NFL brass aren't in touch with their base.


I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned, ratings whooping.

There is only one solution to this Charlie Foxtrot. The owners may as well put their big girl panties on & just get 'er done...


----------



## CubaMark

"It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning."

—Republican Senator Bob Corker​


----------



## Macfury

Corker is king of the RINO's. Have had no respect for him for years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Further on the kneelers:
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Pence leaves NFL game after about 20 San Francisco 49ers take a knee during anthem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> Shock poll: NFL now least liked sport, core fans down 31%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned, ratings whooping.
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one solution to this Charlie Foxtrot. The owners may as well put their big girl panties on & just get 'er done...




So it would appear then that Mike Pence was engaged in a form of...protest.


----------



## Macfury

I think he just left out of disgust. When you wipe a piece of dog crap from your shoe, it isn't as though you're protesting the feces.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So it would appear then that Mike Pence was engaged in a form of...protest.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I think he just left out of disgust. When you wipe a piece of dog crap from your shoe, it isn't as though you're protesting the feces.


_*Pence's departure from the game was all part of a planned PR stunt...*_

*Pence follows Trump order and walks out of 49ers-Colts after players kneel*

Vice-president Mike Pence left the 49ers-Colts NFL game in Indianapolis on Sunday in a planned walkout, after about a dozen San Francisco players kneeled during the playing of the national anthem.

Pence announced his departure from the Lucas Oil Stadium on Twitter. A White House statement followed, with a tweet from President Donald Trump which confirmed the walkout was not spontaneous.

“I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country,” Trump wrote. “I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.”
(The Guardian)​


----------



## Macfury

What makes it a PR stunt? He left out of actual disdain. Would have stayed if not for the helmeted bozos on the field.



CubaMark said:


> _*Pence's departure from the game was all part of a planned PR stunt...*_
> 
> *Pence follows Trump order and walks out of 49ers-Colts after players kneel*
> 
> Vice-president Mike Pence left the 49ers-Colts NFL game in Indianapolis on Sunday in a planned walkout, after about a dozen San Francisco players kneeled during the playing of the national anthem.
> 
> Pence announced his departure from the Lucas Oil Stadium on Twitter. A White House statement followed, with a tweet from President Donald Trump which confirmed the walkout was not spontaneous.
> 
> “I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country,” Trump wrote. “I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.”
> (The Guardian)​


----------



## FeXL

Most certainly. And?

He's exercising his right to protest their behaviour just as the players are politicizing football by exercising their protest.

Who d'ya s'pose is going to win this little...excercise...Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> So it would appear then that Mike Pence was engaged in a form of...protest.


----------



## FeXL

So, the left has been deafeningly silent on these boards about Weistein's antics. And, other silences have revealed much. Say, f'rinstance, SNL, who never misses an opportunity to mock someone on the RH side of the spectrum.

'Where's Harvey Weinstein?' SNL stays SILENT on sexual abuse allegations against movie mogul much to the anger of social media who accuse the show of liberal hypocrisy



> Saturday Night Live joined the ranks of entertainment programs being called out for not commenting on sexual harassment allegations against former movie mogul Harvey Weinstein.
> 
> Social media users skewered the decades old live sketch comedy show, with many highlighting the programs hypocrisy in not going after one of Hollywood's biggest players.
> 
> 'Why didn't big mouth Michael Che' say anything about Harvey Weinstein on SNL "Weekend Update"? He's got so much opinion about everything else,' Pastor Darrell Scott asked contentiously.


Good question.

Related:

This One Tweet Perfectly Mocks All The ‘Diversity’ In Comedy



> While the Left harps on superficial, immutable qualities, such as skin color, the more important aspect of their much-touted "diversity" is that of thought. But as we see in Hollywood and academia, the comedic talk show circuit is a monolithic bunch; all members fully subscribing to leftist ideology in every respect.
> 
> In one concise tweet, actor and comedian Owen Benjamin hammered home the point.
> 
> Captioning a photo of comedic talk show hosts, including Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers, and Stephen Colbert, Benjamin wrote that they all support the "same political party," "endorsed same candidate," and have the "same stance on every issue."
> 
> "Ladies and gentlemen, 'comedy,'" he said.


Surprise, surprise, surprise...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> He's exercising his right to protest their behaviour just as the players are politicizing football by exercising their protest.


----------



## Macfury

Are y'all silent, Cuba Mark?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Are y'all silent, Cuba Mark?


Damn straight he is.

Never once on these boards have I seen him post anything about the real cause of black deaths in the US: black shooters using illegal guns in Progressive cities under some of the most restrictive guns laws in the country. Why? 'Cause all 4 points go completely against the Prog narrative.

C'mon, CM. Let's have a real _conversation about firearms_...

In addition, and also not curiously, he's never once addressed the untold 10's of thousands of abortions by black women ever year by _Family Planning_.

If black lives matter so much, why are they so busy killing each other, CM?


----------



## FeXL

Oh, so now SNL justifies not mocking the bejesus out of Weinstein. 'Course, the hypocrites use the typical Prog double-standard...

EXCLUSIVE: It's a New York thing! SNL creator Lorne Michaels reveals the show gave Harvey Weinstein a pass because the shamed movie mogul is from his city (but so is Trump...)



> Saturday Night Live creator Lorne Michaels has seemingly admitted the show chose not to roast Harvey Weinstein because the embattled film heavyweight is from New York.
> 
> When Michaels was asked as he was leaving SNL's after-party at 4am why the show avoided the Weinstein controversy, the producer smiled and responded: 'It's a New York thing.'
> 
> The show had earlier been criticized for not mentioning the sexual harassment allegations leveled against Weinstein this week.


----------



## FeXL

Actions—>Consequences.

Pennsylvania Vegan Loses Food Truck Business After Celebrating Murder of ‘Meat Eaters’ in Las Vegas



> The Mother Nature Vegan Cuisine food truck is now out of business after the owner, Delinda Jensen, 60, drew massive criticism for posting an October 2 message to Facebook reading, “Yes I am jaded. Fifty nine meat eaters dead. How many animals will live because of this?”
> 
> As people began scolding her on the post, she jumped back in to reply, “I don’t give a (expletive) about carnists anymore,” the _Wilkes-Barre Times Leader_ reported.


Any bets she voted for Bill's Wife?

Ya know, you wanna be a vegan or vegetarian or whatever, fine. Go quietly about your day & just do it. However, when you think it's a good idea that "carnists" (new word for me) get killed because it saves the lives of animals, you've crossed a line. Don't feel sorry that you lost your business one single bit.


----------



## Rps




----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> _*Pence's departure from the game was all part of a planned PR stunt...*_
> 
> *Pence follows Trump order and walks out of 49ers-Colts after players kneel*
> Vice-president Mike Pence left the 49ers-Colts NFL game in Indianapolis on Sunday in a planned walkout, after about a dozen San Francisco players kneeled during the playing of the national anthem.
> 
> Pence announced his departure from the Lucas Oil Stadium on Twitter. A White House statement followed, with a tweet from President Donald Trump which confirmed the walkout was not spontaneous.
> 
> “I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country,” Trump wrote. “I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.”
> (The Guardian)​


Probably left to watch a game on the tele. One that had at least a marginal shot at being entertaining.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> View attachment 82009


As it should be. Maybe with fewer greens.


----------



## FeXL

So, further on the Progs & Weinstein.

Chelsea Clinton dips her toe in Weinstein scandal and nearly gets it blown off



> While the cat appears to have her mother’s tongue, Chelsea Clinton has weighed in on the Harvey Weinstein sexual harassment scandal.
> 
> …sort of.
> 
> Opting not to voice her own opinion, the daughter of the failed presidential candidate shared on social media Saturday a 7-part thread from Judd Legum, editor and founder of the George Soros-backed left-wing political advocacy site Think Progress.


More:



> Here’s a sampling of responses to Chelsea from Twitter, beginning with the obvious: “…you’re not the one to engage in a discussion of sexual misconduct, deary.”
> 
> …you’re not the one to engage in a discussion of sexual misconduct, deary.
> 
> — Brad Moore (@BradMoo08282326) October 7, 2017
> 
> This is a joke, right? https://t.co/CrK7epFwfR
> 
> — James Madison (@2nd_doi) October 7, 2017
> 
> "Except… Uh… not my dad." https://t.co/aeo6CAcNrh
> 
> — ArguingWithDonkeys (@donkeyarguing) October 8, 2017


D'oh!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

> Vice President Mike Pence left Sunday's game between the Indianapolis Colts and the San Francisco 49ers over disgust at players protesting during the national anthem.
> 
> "I left today's Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem," Pence tweeted.





eMacMan said:


> Probably left to watch a different game on the tele. One that had at least a marginal shot at being entertaining.


Ahh the irony if he was watching the Donald's Dallas Dahlins and the Green Bay Packers. 

This shenanigan only cost the taxpayers $200,000. A drop in the bucket compared to a normal Washington flush, but still very symbolic.


----------



## FeXL

More on Weinstein's lack of criticism from the left.

Even the National Laughingstock's Joke Reporter Chris Cilizza Wonders: Why Are the Obamas and the Clintons Staying Silent About Harvey Weinstein?



> Well, part of the reason might be that the media isn't ambushing them with questions demanding that they either condemn or endorse the way every Republican is tied tight to every scandal -- so maybe try that, huh?
> 
> While we're on that -- Matt Damon has a new movie coming out and he's doing publicity for it. Any chance someone in the media will ask him a question about why he allegedly called the New York Times to pressure them to drop a 2004 story about Harvey Weinstein's abuse of women?
> 
> An update: Three women allege rape, but more allege unwanted touching -- which might be sexual assault. A lot of uncomfortable stuff being reported.


But wait!!! Bill's Wife has put out a 38 word tome!!!


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> This shenanigan only cost the taxpayers $200,000. A drop in the bucket compared to a normal Washington flush, but still very symbolic.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




It is ironic, considering how Pence feels about protesters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## eMacMan

*Everybody Welcome*

I first heard about Fannie Mae Duncan from author and family friend Inez Hunt. She was thinking of writing one of her short books about her, but felt that she really had nothing to add as Fannie has been the subject of many authors. I believe she never did anything more than think about it, or perhaps she died before putting it together. 

Any ways a worthwhile read.
COLUMN: Remembering an early local Civil Rights leader | Colorado Springs Gazette, News



> For those of you who do not know, back in the 1950s and beyond, Fannie Mae Duncan operated the hottest spot for jazz in our region - The Cotton Club. Jazz lovers flocked to see the talents of artists such as Duke Ellington, Etta James and many legends of the day. Her club was not without controversy, for it was racially integrated in a time where integration was not allowed.
> 
> A sign adorned the front window of the club: "Everybody Welcome". While presenting musicians, comedians and other artists, Fannie Mae, a black woman, served the public quietly for 28 years. She also helped to found the 400 club, a organization that provided for those in need regardless of race or religion.
> 
> Duncan is an example of the best kind of civil rights protester. Her ability to connect with anyone allowed her to win over patrons and public officials alike. The chief of police simply gave up on trying to stop her. Her civil disobedience was so civil it became legendary. Beloved by our community, her story will be told to countless generations.


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk Weinstein & Prog hypocrisy s'more...

Why is it that guys locker room _talk_ about "grabbing p*ssy" is worse than actually physically doing it? Those of you who were all over Trump have been strangely silent about Weinstein. Why is that? Is your ideology so entrenched that you are actually willing to give a pass to someone who took advantage of his position to sexually abuse actors & actresses? If someone from the right had been caught masturbating into a potted plant in front of a female, you'd have run over each other in the headlong rush to his character assassination. WTF?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Oops: Asked About Returning Weinstein Cash, Hillary's Running Mate Butchers the Facts



> At long last, and under mounting pressure, Hillary Clinton released a terse statement yesterday (through a spokesperson, bravely) condemning serial sexual harasser Harvey Weinstein, from whom she's accepted substantial political contributions over the years. Her former Vice Presidential running mate -- fresh off of embarrassingly mangling factual information regarding the Las Vegas shooting and guns -- was asked on CNN whether the Clinton campaign would return Weinstein's money. As in, actually return it, as opposed to pulling a pitiful DNC-style stunt. *Sen. Tim Kaine responded by suggesting that the question isn't valid or relevant anymore because the election is over*


:yikes:

Anthony Bourdain can't stomach Hillary Clinton's 'shameful' response to Harvey Weinstein controversy



> Celebrity chef and TV personality Anthony Bourdain condemned a "shameful" interview by Hillary Clinton on Wednesday in regards to her comments about the Harvey Weinstein sexual assault scandal.
> 
> "I have to say, Hillary's interview with Fareed Zakaria was shameful in its deflection and its disingenuousness," Bourdain said to begin what became a lengthy Twitter rant. "[K]now what Hillary Clinton is NOT? She's not stupid. Or unsophisticated about the world. The Weinstein stories had been out there for years."


Hollywood Actors Who Condemn Trump but Were Silent on Weinstein



> I want to like her, I really do. Sometimes she chooses a good cause, like speaking up for trafficked and abused children. Those are the activities she should stick to. Unfortunately, Judd had to go to the "Women's March," where hundreds of thousands of women wore pink "pussy" hats while claiming to be upset that Trump had used that word once. She performed ridiculous slam poetry, screeching defamatory accusations about the president wanting to have sex with his daughter and about other terrible things about which she had no first-hand knowledge. (You can watch the video below if you have the stomach for it.)
> 
> But at no time did she ever discuss a man who she did know did horrific things. No "by the way, Harvey Weinstein is a dirtbag who tried to get me to watch him shower for a part." Why didn't that come up?
> 
> I find it very difficult to believe Judd is this angry at Donald Trump, a man who has never done anything to her, or provably to anybody, when there is a man who did do something horrible to her whom she could be screeching about. She needs therapy. And possibly tranquilizers.


Weinstein is vile. But the silence of Hollywood's women helped him get away with it for years, writes SARAH VINE



> Weinstein is merely a symptom — of something even bigger and nastier: Hollywood itself and an entire industry that has for decades thrived on the sexual exploitation of young women by older, uglier and more powerful men.
> 
> Weinstein may be the chief perpetrator of these vile acts. But he is by no means the only guilty party.
> 
> Countless others are guilty, either by association or because they chose to look the other way. And that is inexcusable. For one thing is becoming more and more apparent: everyone seemed to know.
> 
> Not for nothing was ‘You don’t go through Harvey — Harvey goes through you’ the most over-used cliche in town.
> 
> Or, as Romola Garai pointed out: ‘You can’t find an actress that doesn’t have that kind of story about Harvey.’


Weinstein Collateral Damage: The Obamas



> It's pretty interesting that the Obama statement on Weinstein came so late in the day. All it meant was that Weinstein was a millstone around the Obamas' neck, given their grand plans for their wealthy, star-studded post-presidency lifestyle plans, and their desire to preserve the Obama legacy, now that everyone else has condemned Weinstein already.
> 
> They're not looking too brave in this pusillanimous statement of outrage.


‘Disgusted’ Obamas were star-struck by Hollywood mogul Weinstein’s access, cash



> Barack and Michelle Obama now say they are “disgusted” by Harvey Weinstein’s sexual harassment accusations. But as president and first lady, oh my, how they loved the movie mogul’s cash and Hollywood glitz.
> As a powerful pipeline to the Democrats’ cash machine in the entertainment industry, Mr. Weinstein raised millions of dollars for Mr. Obama’s presidential campaigns in 2008 and 2012.


'There's been a lot of pain': Dumped 'sex abuser' Harvey Weinstein 'takes responsibility' for destroying his marriage and says he told his wife to leave him as he hires a CRIMINAL attorney



> Harvey Weinstein today said he 'encouraged' his wife, Georgina Chapman, 'to do what was in her heart' before she announced she was leaving the movie mogul after a string of women claimed that he had sexually assaulted them.
> 
> Weinstein said that he 'supports' her decision and hopes that after he undergoes therapy for sex addiction and behavioral issues, he and his wife can 'rebuild' their relationship.
> 
> At the same time as Chapman made the announcement that she was leaving her husband, Weinstein was rumored to have flown to Europe by private to submit himself to a live-in facility in hopes of cleaning his act. It later emerged he was actually still in Los Angeles.
> 
> ​In a statement released by his spokesperson, Weinstein said: '​I support her decision, I am in counseling and perhaps, when I am better, we can rebuild.'


And, finally:

Trump's Justice Department moves on Harvey Weinstein and orders FBI to open probe over fears he will 'do a Polanski'



> The FBI has opened an investigation into Harvey Weinstein, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned.
> 
> DailyMail.com understands the move came at the behest of the Department of Justice, run by Donald Trump's Attorney General Jeff Sessions, which instructed the bureau to investigate the mounting allegations leveled at the movie mogul.
> 
> While it is unknown whether the DOJ order came directly from Sessions, the move is likely to be seen in a political light given Weinstein's friendship with Trump foe Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The move by the DOJ came amid rumors that Weinstein was planning on heading to Europe for sex rehab – leading to fears of a Roman Polanski-style situation where he dodges prosecution in the U.S.


Speaking of Bill's Wife, still waiting for a _real_ investigation of her...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> So, let's talk Weinstein & Prog hypocrisy s'more...[/quote[
> 
> Sure, why not? Anything to distract people from the Desperate Cheeto-in-Chief.
> 
> 
> 
> FeXL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that guys locker room _talk_ about "grabbing p*ssy" is worse than actually physically doing it?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's revisit your political saviour's *actual words*, shall we? This isn't "locker room talk" as much as you'd like to spin it. Trump was describing his actions, not his thoughts and feelings. The President of the USA is a confessed sexual abuser:
> 
> _*Trump:* "I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and **** her, she was married."
> 
> *Unknown:* "That's huge news there."
> 
> *Trump: *"No, no, Nancy. No this was [inaudible] and I moved on her very heavily in fact I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I moved on her like a bitch. I couldn't get there and she was married.
> 
> ** * **​
> *Trump:* ....I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
> 
> *Bush:* "Whatever you want."
> 
> *Trump*: "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."_​
> 
> 
> 
> FeXL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those of you who were all over Trump have been strangely silent about Weinstein. Why is that? Is your ideology so entrenched that you are actually willing to give a pass to someone who took advantage of his position to sexually abuse actors & actresses?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your logic circuit is (still) broken. Just because no-one has commented, it doesn't mean they agree with / are defending / like / condone Weinstein's behaviour. YOU gave ME hell when I questioned why you hand't responded to comments awhile back during the GermanWings debacle, because you were busy with work and just hadn't gotten around to it. Back at ya: I'm up to my ears with a book deadline.
> 
> For the record, Weinstein and those who turned a blind eye to his assaults deserve the harshest of prosecution / punishment / ostracism. I could give a rat's ass if he was high profile donor to the Democrats - both primary US political parties are simply two faces of the same imperialist coin, and neither can be trusted to do anything other than cause harm to the rest of the planet in the pursuit of their own vested interests. Democrats as much as Republicans have blood on their hands.
> 
> My preference was not for Hillary, it was against Trump, because the man is dangerous and has seriously upped the likelihood that my son may witness an actual mushroom cloud in his lifetime. Hillary would have been a continuation of the US war industry, caused untold suffering and just wrapped it in a less offensive message than the Republicans do. But at least I would not expect her to bring us to the brink of global warfare.
Click to expand...


----------



## FeXL

He ain't my political saviour. He's the US's.

Given an actual choice between Trump & Sockboy, well, I'll let you figger it out.

As to him "describing his actions", it's still talk until someone comes forward & actually confirms it.

As far as being a "confessed sexual abuser", what I get from that line is that he failed to get her into bed. Only a _slight_ disconnect from being a "confessed sexual abuser".

As far as the kissing is concerned, you seem to think that's a heinous crime ("sexual abuser") yet remain mute on untold 10's of thousands of sexual assaults & rapes the world over by Muslims every year. Once again, a _slight_ disconnect. This time from reality.



CubaMark said:


> Let's revisit your political saviour's *actual words*, shall we? This isn't "locker room talk" as much as you'd like to spin it. Trump was describing his actions, not his thoughts and feelings. The President of the USA is a confessed sexual abuser:
> 
> _*Trump:* "I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and **** her, she was married."
> 
> *Unknown:* "That's huge news there."
> 
> *Trump: *"No, no, Nancy. No this was [inaudible] and I moved on her very heavily in fact I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I moved on her like a bitch. I couldn't get there and she was married.
> 
> ** * **​
> *Trump:* ....I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
> 
> *Bush:* "Whatever you want."
> 
> *Trump*: "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."_​


My logic circuit works just fine. It's yours that has a short in it.

At what point did I say anybody was agreeing, defending, condoning anything?

I'm merely pointing out Prog hypocrisy. Most Progs seem entirely confortable with hypocrisy, double stands, etc. Frankly, I think it's one of the most loathsome characteristics in a personality, period. 



CubaMark said:


> Your logic circuit is (still) broken. Just because no-one has commented, it doesn't mean they agree with / are defending / like / condone Weinstein's behaviour.


I wasn't targeting you personally. You're not the only Prog on these boards nor the only ideologue. There are some of each who have posted multiple times since I first brought this up what, a week ago? Nada on the topic. And not even counting the lurkers like Jimbo...



CubaMark said:


> YOU gave ME hell...


Good! Now we're getting somewhere.



CubaMark said:


> For the record, Weinstein and those who turned a blind eye to his assaults deserve the harshest of prosecution / punishment / ostracism.


More so.



CubaMark said:


> Democrats as much as Republicans have blood on their hands.


The only one taking us to the brink of warfare is the fat little Nork whom you endorsed as a victim not too long ago...



CubaMark said:


> But at least I would not expect her to bring us to the brink of global warfare.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Weinstein s'more...

I jes' luvs me the logic of a Prog apologist.

Whoopi On Roman Polanski: It Wasn't 'Rape-Rape'



> Then it's time for Whoopi to take us into her fantastical moral universe where there's something called "rape-rape," and where it seems perfectly reasonable to her that a man facing jail charges for a crime to which he pleaded guilty would simply leave the country to avoid them. You know it's a good episode of The View when Sherri Shepherd makes the most sense:
> 
> Whoopi: "I know it wasn't rape-rape. It was something else but I don't believe it was rape-rape. He went to jail and and when they let him out he was like "You know what this guy's going to give me a hundred years in jail I'm not staying, so that's why he left."
> 
> Oh yes, of course. Duh. Case closed.


And, Rose McGowan's Twitter account gets shut down. Too close to the truth?

Rose McGowan's Twitter account is SUSPENDED after alluding to Harvey Weinstein in 'rapist' tweet, calling his brother a 'POS' and telling Ben Affleck to 'f*** off'



> Rose McGowan was suspended from Twitter on Wednesday night after several days of hitting out against the likes of Harvey Weinstein, his brother Bob Weinstein and Ben Affleck.
> 
> McGowan, who was allegedly assaulted by Weinstein in 1997 had been crusading against silence over Weinstein's grim past on Twitter. However she took to Instagram to share the news her account had been shutdown.
> 
> 'Twitter has suspended me. There are powerful forces at work. Be my voice.'


----------



## FeXL

Ah, if only we had a leader with the socks, I mean, cajones to do this...

US WITHDRAWS FROM UNESCO, CITING 'ANTI-ISRAEL BIAS'



> The Trump administration announced on Thursday that the US will withdraw from UNESCO, the UN's educational, scientific and cultural body.
> 
> The Paris-based body is known for designating World Heritage sites like the ancient city of Palmyra in Syria and Grand Canyon National Park, but it has struggled for relevance as it becomes increasingly hobbled by regional rivalries and a lack of money.


Interestingly, I understand that Israel has now also pulled their support.


----------



## Macfury

From the article:



> In recent months, UNESCO members have pushed the body to recognize Jerusalem as a holy site exclusive to Muslims, without recognizing its Jewish roots.





FeXL said:


> Ah, if only we had a leader with the socks, I mean, cajones to do this...
> 
> US WITHDRAWS FROM UNESCO, CITING 'ANTI-ISRAEL BIAS'
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, I understand that Israel has now also pulled their support.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> From the article:


The silence is deafening...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Weinstein even more (along with other notable Prog sexual assaulters & scum). And, we'll couple it to the left's refusal to actually be critical of his actions &/or make fun of him, a la comedians. Then just for giggles, we'll talk about the fact that he actually had getting fired for sexual assault covered in his contract and may be able to sue for wrongful dismissal, assuming that his former company survives that long.

'Straight Up Journalistic Malpractice:' NBC News Under Fire For Trying to Kill Bombshell Weinstein Story



> Why did Ronan Farrow, an investigative journalist for NBC News (an entity we defended earlier), break his giant scoop on Harvey Weinstein's alleged sexual assaults in _The New Yorker_, rather than on the network that employs him? That was a question on many people's minds after the shock of the story itself began to settle in, as CNN's Jake Tapper was one of the first to publicly flag the disconnect. Within a day or two, the ugly answer has begun to take shape: NBC very much appears to have bent over backward to suppress the story, impede its progress, and ensure that it never reached the air. Brian Stelter, also at CNN, reported that the axe had come down from on high


"You'll Love My Dick" - Amazon Suspends Video Chief After Sexual Harrassment Allegations



> On the evening of July 10, 2015, after a long day of promoting Man in the High Castle at Comic-Con in San Diego, Hackett attended a dinner with the show's cast and Amazon staff at the U.S. Grant Hotel. There she says she met Price for the first time. He asked her to attend an Amazon staff party later that night at the W Hotel (now the Renaissance) and she ended up in a taxi with Price and Michael Paull, then another top Amazon executive and now CEO of the digital media company BAMTech.
> 
> Once in the cab, Hackett says Price repeatedly and insistently propositioned her. “You will love my dick,” he said, according to Hackett, who relayed her account to multiple individuals in the hours after the alleged episode. (The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed Hackett told at least two people about the alleged incident in the immediate aftermath.) Hackett says she made clear to Price she was not interested and told him that she is a lesbian with a wife and children.
> 
> Hackett says Price did not relent in the cab or once they arrived at the Amazon party. As she talked with other executives, she says that Price stepped close to her and loudly said, “Anal sex!” in her ear.


She shoulda said, "Fine", & shoved her boot up his backside...

Cuomo to Keep Over $60,000 in Campaign Donations From Harvey Weinstein



> New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D.) plans to keep more than half of the campaign donations he received from Democratic donor and Hollywood film mogul Harvey Weinstein after it was revealed last week that he had settled sexual harassment claims with at least eight different women.


It’s Not Just Weinstein — Entertainment Industry Filled With Accused Sex Abusers



> Weinstein is accused of using his powerful position in Hollywood to serially abuse women, particularly models and actresses. At least 20 women have now accused Weinstein, who is a major Demoratic donor and fundraiser, of sexually harassing them. The New Yorker published a bombshell report containing graphic details of Weinstein’s abuse of several women, three of whom accused him of raping them.
> 
> That Weinstein was sexually abusive is said to have been an open secret among Hollywood elites.
> 
> But Weinstein is far from alone. The entertainment industry is filled with men accused of sex abuse.


Harvey Weinstein Will Challenge His Firing at Next Board Meeting, Because, Well, His Contract _Did_ Say That Sexual Harassment Was Not a Firing Offense



> As disclosed yesterday, The Weinstein Company's contract with Harvey Weinstein made sexual harassment a non-firable offense -- all Harvey Weinstein had to do was pay the company for any money damages his harassment caused them, plus an escalating penalty ($250,000 for the first offense, $500,000 for the second, $750,000 for the third, $1,000,000 for the fourth). So long as he paid the Weinstein Company its actual settlement costs plus some money to make them feel good about permitting sexual harassment, everything was cool.
> 
> To be fired, he'd have to be indicted or convicted of a crime. Which he hasn't been. *So far.*


M'bold.

It's a comin'...

Jimmy Kimmel Gets Defensive About His Refusal to Make Jokes About Harvey Weinstein; Decides He's _Not_ the "Conscience of the Nation" After All



> Funny, after his Chuck Schumer scripted homilies about health care and guns, the media called him the "conscience of the nation," and he didn't object. He rather seemed to like it.
> 
> But now he avoids doing Harvey Weinstein jokes -- he did a couple of obligatory ones after people criticized him, one joke having more to do with Trump than Weinstein (naturally) -- and he declares "I'm not the moral conscience of America."
> 
> Conscience of the Nation Nose ON,
> Conscience of the Nation Nose OFF.
> 
> Basically he just really doesn't want to get into the whole Harvey Weinstein thing. I wonder why.


Weinstein scandal -- Can Democrats afford to cut Hollywood loose?



> Weinstein once stated that Hollywood “has the best moral compass, because it has compassion” – and for the past eight or so years, the Democratic Party has embraced Weinstein and his philosophy on Hollywood.
> 
> The flirtations between the party and Hollywood were not simply brief cameos at awards shows. President Obama used Hollywood to push almost every social action program his administration rolled out.


Please, Dems, don't drop Hollyweird. Yours is a match made in heaven... 

Hollywood is America’s Conscience or Something



> I am one conservative who is thankful for Hollywood’s collective inability not to say stupid things because I’m a columnist and these idiots are the gift that keeps on giving. Tired of writing about failing, fussy Fredocons and goose-stepping libs with a beef against the Bill of Rights? Well, like clockwork some genius will take to Twitter leveraging his GED and his supporting role as the sassy sidekick in a CW teen vampire dramedy to offer his super-insightful political/cultural insights to us normals and … BOOM! I have the launching pad for another sensational column.


‘Harvey Weinstein’s Media Enablers’? The New York Times Is One of Them



> I applaud The New York Times and writers Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey for getting the story in print. I’m sure it was a long and difficult road.
> 
> But I simply gagged when I read Jim Rutenberg’s sanctimonious piece on Saturday about the “media enablers” who kept this story from the public for decades.
> 
> “Until now,” he puffed, “no journalistic outfit had been able, or perhaps willing, to nail the details and hit publish.”
> 
> That’s right, Jim. No one — including The New York Times.
> 
> In 2004, I was still a fairly new reporter at The New York Times when I got the green light to look into oft-repeated allegations of sexual misconduct by Weinstein. It was believed that many occurred in Europe during festivals and other business trips there.


----------



## Macfury

Trump is really working hard to undo Obama's malfeasance, even if senate RINO's are holding onto the status quo. Obamacare mandates, and Obama's pretend Iran nuke deal are both on the outs!


----------



## FeXL

Jes' luvin' me the silence from all but one of the Progs on these boards who jumped all over Trump for _sayin'_ he grabbed pussy in the face of the fact that Weinstein has not only paid off at least 8 actresses for their silence about his actual sexual assaults against them, but is now accused by more & more actresses every day of rape & sexual assault.

Harvey Weinstein: More women accuse Hollywood producer of rape



> British actress Lysette Anthony says he attacked her at her London home in the late 1980s while another, unidentified woman says she was raped in 1992.


Harvey Weinstein Proves Why the Left Really Hates Trump



> Chalk up the Harvey Weinstein sex scandal as one of the most unsurprising big media stories of the modern era. It's like when a magazine run by liberals and devoted to promoting and encouraging the "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" lifestyle flubs a story about campus rape. (And subsequently – and quite deservedly – gets sued into near oblivion.) In other words, almost no one should be surprised that a big-time Hollywood producer and film studio executive such as Harvey Weinstein is a sexual miscreant.


Harvey Weinstein can't wash away Hollywood's sins: Glenn Reynolds



> Exiling one mogul won't bury this question: If people realize the system is exploitative and inhuman, will they still watch movies?


Good question.

Academy Expels Harvey Weinstein



> The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has expelled disgraced mogul Harvey Weinstein from its ranks.
> 
> The Academy’s 54-member board of governors — which includes such Hollywood luminaries as Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, Whoopi Goldberg and Kathleen Kennedy — held an emergency meeting Saturday at the organization’s Beverly Hills headquarters and voted to strip away Weinstein’s lifetime membership.
> 
> Following the meeting, the Academy issued a statement saying the board had voted "to immediately expel him from the Academy. We do so not simply to separate ourselves from someone who does not merit the respect of his colleagues but also to send a message that the era of willful ignorance and shameful complicity in sexually predatory behavior and workplace harassment in our industry is over."


Hollywood Sex Abuse Film 'An Open Secret' Released Online



> "Harvey Weinstein, by the way, is not the only one who has used confidentiality settlements. That's why more of Hollywood's behavior hasn't been exposed. This is the tip of the iceberg," says producer Gabe Hoffman.


Take Back Your Diamonds, Take Back Your Pearls, What Makes You Think I Was One of Weinstein's Girls?



> Jimmy Kimmel says he’s laid off the Harvey Weinstein jokes because he’s not the “moral conscience of America” (there’s also a video of him asking young women to guess what’s in his crotch. And suggesting they feel it and put their mouths on it).
> 
> Famously, NBC is playing shy about the scandal, having refused to broadcast the detailed exposé by Ronan Farrow, who took it to the New Yorker which did publish it.
> 
> The story has laid bare the hypocrisy of the media giants, Democratic biggies, and the Hollywood virtue signalers.


Woody Allen reveals sadness for 'messed up' Harvey Weinstein: Director whose own son revealed sex claims against movie mogul now fears Hollywood 'witch hunt' of 'every guy in an office who winks at a woman'



> Woody Allen has defended Harvery Weinstein over dozens of allegations of sexual abuse and rape, describing the situation as 'sad'.
> 
> The director, who worked with Weinstein a number of times, said he was upset 'for everyone involved' and lamented the fact that Weinstein's life 'is so messed up.'
> 
> While he hoped the investigation into alleged abuse would provide some respite to victims, he added that he worries about a witch hunt against men.


Why am I not surprised that Woody Allen is defending him.

And, as usual, Rex nails it.

Rex Murphy: And the Oscar for moral hypocrisy goes to ... Hollywood!



> _“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground…”_​
> Lucifer, the light-bearer. Not perhaps since the fall of the original archetype has there been such a fall as Harvey Weinstein’s (or “God,” as Meryl Streep described him). For it is not just the fall, it is the place from which he fell, the very mount of the modern temple itself: fabled Hollywood.
> 
> Hollywood, elite of the elites, kingdom of fame, fortune and cosmetology, the greatest machine for self-infatuation and ostentatious sanctimony ever conceived of by the mind of man. Hollywood, the nuclear-fired power plant of virtue-signalling, where every good liberal cause comes with its own swag bag, and progressive posturing is a lifestyle honed to an art form, where greed wrestles daily with vanity. It’s possibly the only place on Earth where Hypocrisy is occasionally ashamed of itself.


And this, from the Chief Hypocrite:

Hillary Clinton says U.S. elected 'someone who admitted sexual assault'

from which article springs possibly the best comment I've seen on the topic:



> "When Hillary was asked if Weinstein's behavior was as bad as Bill's, she said close but no cigar."


:yikes:  

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

So, Sally Chardonnay (that just slays me :lmao apparently fell backwards while running down the stairs in high heels with a cup of coffee in her hand. If any part of that tale doesn't sound incongruous, you probably voted for her...

'I was running downstairs in heels with a cup of coffee and fell backwards!' Hillary Clinton reveals tumble that left her with a broken toe as she appears with Graham Norton hobbling on crutches and wearing protective boot

And, further on Bill's Wife, et al., all of Weinstein's money has already been spent. So sorry!

We won’t give back a cent of Harvey Weinstein’s tainted $250,000 says the Clinton Foundation - we’ve spent accused rapist’s every cent claims group run by Bill and Chelsea



> The Clinton Foundation told DailyMail.com it will not return as much as $250,000 in donations from Harvey Weinstein, saying on Sunday the money had already been spent on the organization’s programs and used for charitable purposes.
> 
> The foundation’s decision comes as politicians and philanthropic groups grapple with whether to return donations they have received from Weinstein, after numerous women stepped forward this month to accuse the movie mogul of sexual assault, harassment and rape.


Earlier, Bill's Daughter bailed on the same question:



> The explanation comes after foundation board member Chelsea Clinton ducked questions about Weinstein’s money from a DailyMail.com reporter while attending a Clinton Global Initiative University event at Northeastern University in Boston on Saturday.
> 
> The former first daughter hustled out a side door after the event, evading a reporter as she rushed to her car surrounded by aides and security.


And, just in case you hadn't seen the list of accusers, from the second link:



> 1. Kate Beckinsale
> 2. Gwyneth Paltrow
> 3. Angelina Jolie
> 4. Cara Delevigne
> 5. Eva Green
> 6. Lea Seydoux
> 7. Minka Kelly
> 8. Tara Subkoff
> 9. Asia Argento
> 10. Zoe Brock
> 11. Claire Forlani
> 12. Louisette Geiss
> 13. Judith Godreche
> 14. Dawn Dunning
> 15. Tomi-Ann Roberts
> 16. Katherine Kendall
> 17. Lucia Evans
> 18. Mira Sorvino
> 19. Rosanna Arquette
> 20. Rose McGowan
> 21. Ashley Judd
> 22. Emma De Caunes
> 23. Sophie Dix
> 24. Lauren O'Connor
> 25. Ambra Battilana
> 26. Jessica Barth
> 27. Laura Madden
> 28. Emily Nestor
> 29. Zelda Perkins
> 30. Elizabeth Karlsen
> 31. Liza Campbell
> 32. Lauren Sivan
> 33. Jessica Hynes
> 34. Romola Garai
> 35. Florence Darel
> 36. Paula Wachowiak
> 37. Lysette Anthony
> 38. Unnamed assistant 1
> 39. Unnamed assistant 2
> 40. Unnamed Miramax employee
> 41. Unnamed woman, America
> 42. Unnamed woman, London 1
> 43. Unnamed woman, London 2


----------



## FeXL

And even more on Weinstein! :love2:

Rose McGowan Claims Lisa Bloom Offered Her $6 Million to Publicly Support Harvey Weinstein



> Last week I noted that the BBC was reporting that someone had called the Merseyside police and reported a sexual assault by Harvey Weinstein, and they had in turn alerted the London Metropolitan Police, who were investigating. The article didn't say who that was.
> 
> It turns out it was Lysette Anthony, an actress of mild prominence in the 1980s, chiefly in sci-fi and genre movies like _Krull_.
> 
> ...
> 
> It's one of the more horrifying crimes he's been accused of-- forcible rape, after a period of "stalking" (as the actress terms it)./QUOTE]
> 
> Harvey Weinstein Helped Pay Bill Clinton's Legal Bills During Lewinsky Investigations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thick as sexual assailants.
> 
> ...
> 
> How many dominoes will fall before we're done? Is anyone, for example, going to probe deeper into Jeffrey Epstein and the Lolita Express to Pedophile Isle?
> 
> I don't see much media interest perking up about the allegations of widespread pedophilia in Hollywood made by Corey Feldman and Todd Bridges.
> 
> Feldman says he gave cops the names of his abusers/rapists -- before the statute of limitations ran out, so charges could have been brought -- but says police did "zero."
> 
> One begins to see a pattern of police not taking action against rich and connected Hollywood types, and one begins to wonder how deep the corruption runs.
> 
> Might be time to watch the documentary _An Open Secret_ about Hollywood's pedophilia problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, & from the same link, further on the Clinton's not returning any of Weinsteins donations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill and Hillary won't be returning any of Harvey Weinstein's money-- they say it's been spent.
> 
> I guess they're not aware that money is fungible and that any dollar you've spent can be replaced by any other dollar in your possession.
> 
> Tim Kaine announced this "I already spent it" excuse last week; of course the money-grubbing Clintons' ears must have perked up at that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read somewhere in the last day or so that _An Open Secret_ was having free viewings for a few days. Sorry, can't find the link.
Click to expand...


----------



## FeXL

Ya makes yer bed, ya gets ta sleep in it...

Colin Kaepernick Files a Grievance Against the NFL Claiming All 32 Owners "Conspired" To Make Him Mediocre and Toxic for the Brand



> _Kaepernick, and his attorney — celebrity lawyer Mark Geragos — say that all 32 team owners conspired together to deny him a spot in professional football, even though Kaepernick walked away from a one-year option on his contract with the 49ers, and hasn't been an asset to any football team since 2013.
> 
> NFL owners, the complaint says, "have colluded to deprive Mr. Kaepernick of employment rights in retaliation for Mr. Kaepernick's leadership and advocacy for equality and social justice and his bringing awareness to peculiar institutions still undermining racial equality in the United States." Kaepernick contends that it's a "statistical impossibility" that he has not, so far, obtained gainful employment as a professional football player._​


Related:

Kaepernick files grievance against NFL 



> Former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick filed a grievance against the NFL on Sunday, alleging that he remains unsigned as a result of collusion by owners following his protests during the national anthem.


What is it with Progs? It's always someone else's fault...

On that note, Bill's Wife lost because, get this, the Russkies (I know, stay with me here) used Pokemon Go to heighten racial tensions.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

A NEW LOW: CNN Says Russian Meddling Extended To Pokemon Go



> “According to CNN logic, African Americans shape their public stance playing Pokemons,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova wrote on Facebook, according to RT.com.
> 
> "That is how feebly the TV channel explains the emergence of racial problems in modern USA. Russians are to blame again … and the Pokemons they control.”
> 
> Jennifer Breedon, an attorney with specializations in International and Criminal Law, told RT the CNN story doesn't even connect the dots.
> 
> "It does not even talk about the election. In fact, CNN has been crying from the hilltops about Russia meddling in the election from day one,” Breedon said. “We don't know what's happened. We do not know the facts, the evidence of this ‘CNN investigation’.”
> 
> "For CNN to be targeting or highlighting something like this as breaking news, specifically highlighting any elements from Pokemon Go within the investigation without providing any evidence, is actually kind of indicative of how little facts they’ve had and how much they are trying to continue to paint this election as a big Russian conspiracy.”


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

Despite the best efforts of the left & the MSM (but I repeat myself) they have been completely unable to make a secure connection between Trump & the Russkies. However, there have been a few connections made between the Dems, Bill's Wife & the Russkies. Here is a damning one:

FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow



> Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.
> 
> Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.
> 
> They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill ClintonBill ClintonAll five living former presidents to attend hurricane relief concert The Hill's 12:30 Report The Hill's 12:30 Report MORE’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary ClintonHillary Diane Rodham ClintonChris Murphy’s profile rises with gun tragedies DNC, RNC step up cyber protections Gun proposal picks up GOP support MORE served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Bowe Bergdahl Admits to Desertion and Misbehavior Before the Enemy



> Obama traded five hardcore Taliban/Al Qaeda terrorists to free a deserter whose actions killed his former squadmates.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me some good, ol' fashioned, social justice...

Monday Night Football Ratings Fall to Season Low



> Year-to-year, last night's MNF dipped just over 3% in the MM [major markets, I think] results from the Arizona Cardinals’ 28-3 demolition of the New York Jets on October 17, 2016. With a rating that matched the Jets score, that demo season low eventually landed with a 3.0 among the 18-49s and 8.4 million viewers, an almost audience bottom.


I read somewhere this morning that one of the cheerleading squads was kneeling in the tunnel during the national anthem in support. I found that hilarious. Scared to show yourselves in public? Can't have much faith in your protest then.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the corruption surrounding Bill's Wife.

FBI Confirms That Comey Drafted Statement On Clinton Probe Months Before Investigation Ended



> DC: The FBI released emails Monday confirming that former FBI Director James Comey drafted statements regarding the Hillary Clinton email investigation months before the probe was closed.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Republicans questioned whether Comey’s draft statement indicated that he had arrived at a conclusion about the Clinton investigation months before he interviewed the former secretary of state and numerous other witnesses. The draft was also prepared before the Justice Department had made immunity deals with Clinton aides Cheryl Mills and Heather Samuelson.


Must be nice to know you're going to be exonerated even before the investigation ends...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk about the major influence the Russkies had in the election.

Longtime Hillary Pollster Mark Penn: You Know, It's Not Really Credible That Russia Could, or Would Even Think It Could, Swing an Election In Which $2.5 Billion Was Spent With $100,000 in FaceBook Ads (Which Themselves Had Mixed Messages)



> _[C]onsider the scale of American presidential elections. Hillary Clinton’s total campaign budget, including associated committees, was $1.4 billion. Mr. Trump and his allies had about $1 billion. Even a full $100,000 of Russian ads would have erased just 0.025% of Hillary’s financial advantage. In the last week of the campaign alone, Mrs. Clinton’s super PAC dumped $6 million in ads into Florida, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
> 
> I have 40 years of experience in politics, and this Russian ad buy, mostly after the election anyway, simply does not add up to a carefully targeted campaign to move voters._​


<sigh> Another narrative shot to hell...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Weinstein s'more. This time will stir in a bit of Bill's Wife!

Hillary's Closest Hollywood Confidante and Galpal, Designing Women Inflicter Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, Knew About Harvey Weinstein's Predations



> And if she knew -- Hillary's closest Hollywood confidante -- then Hillary knew.
> 
> But Hillary says she never heard of these harassments and assaults.
> 
> How to square these incompatible accountings of reality?


More:



> _Hillary Clinton may not be entirely truthful with us sometimes._


Italics from the link.

Shocka...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Anybody notice an echo in here lately? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Yeah! Kinda like the echo from all you leftys screaming blue murder about Trump merely talking about grabbing pussy.

Only now, it's a lefty who has been caught out actually sexaully assaulting & raping & you hypocrites can't raise a word of criticism!

I love the silence! It speaks louder & clearer about you than any words possibly could.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anybody notice an echo in here lately?


----------



## FeXL

And one more to chaw on.

Jessica Chastain Admits Hollywood Has No Moral Authority: ‘We’re Very Quick to Point the Finger at Others’



> Oscar-nominated actress Jessica Chastain went directly after a key issue that, in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein sex scandal, will affect Tinseltown for at least a generation — the fact that the decades-long, industry-wide cover-up of sexual misconduct has destroyed whatever residual moral authority Hollywood had left.
> 
> Speaking at an Elle magazine event Monday, Chastain said, “Oh we’re very quick to point the finger at others and address the issue with social action and fundraising. Yet there is a clear disconnect between how we practice what we preach in our industry.”


Thank you for you candor, Ms. Chastain.

More:



> While Hollywood donned their shrill pussyhats and stridently lectured the rest of us, Tinseltown was aggressively shielding, enabling, and protecting countless predators and harassers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> Anybody notice an echo in here lately?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Yup, there it is again.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Anybody notice an echo in here lately?





Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, there it is again.


You mean posts like the ones above that contribute nothing to the thread? Yup.


----------



## FeXL

So, tell me about the absence of voter fraud again...

More Cases of Voter Fraud Pile Up as Liberals Look the Other Way



> The Heritage Foundation added another round of cases this week to its ever-growing Voter Fraud Database.
> 
> Accounting for these new additions, the database now documents 1,088 proven instances of election fraud, including 949 cases that have resulted in criminal convictions, 48 that have ended in civil penalties, and 75 that have seen defendants enter diversion programs.
> 
> Americans should be alarmed, not only because Heritage has compiled so many examples of fraud—impacting nearly every state and elections for all levels of government—but because this figure is likely just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## FeXL

Bb-bb-b-but...TRUMP'S WITHHOLDING SUPPLIES!!! GENOCIDE!!!

Disturbing Video – U.S. Aid To Puerto Rico Thrown in Dumpsters…



> FBI agents in Puerto Rico have been receiving calls from “across the island” with residents complaining local officials are “withholding” or “mishandling” critical FEMA supplies — with one island official even accused of stuffing his own car full of goods meant for the suffering populace.


----------



## FeXL

Bill's Wife: "I DIDN'T KNOW!!!"

Bombshell: Longtime Clinton Friend Admits ‘Warning’ Top-Level Democrats About Weinstein



> Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the creator of the iconic 90s sitcom _Designing Women_ and a close friend for decades of Bill and Hillary Clinton, admits that she not only knew of producer Harvey Weinstein’s predations, but that she warned “top-level” Democrats about him.
> 
> Buried deep within a Hollywood Reporter guest column, Bloodworth-Thomason drops this bombshell (with a deflecting shot at Fox News): “I confess to having had no problem warning at least three top-level Democratic operatives against allowing Harvey Weinstein to host political fundraisers. A warning that evidently (and to the glee of Fox News) fell on deaf ears.”


More:



> For the Clintons and the Democrat Party, Harvey Weinstein was a rainmaker. Over the years, he not only personally contributes somewhere around a million dollars to various Democrats, including the Clintons and President Obama, his bundling and fundraising raised, by some estimates, tens of millions of dollars.


----------



## FeXL

And even more on Bill, Bill's Wife, Barry & cadre.

Hannity: 'Uranium One Will Be One of the Biggest Scandals This Country Has Ever Seen'



> There are brand new FBI documents that show the Russian nuclear industry officials kicked back millions and millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation," Hannity said. "All while Hillary Clinton was secretary of State and helped approve the Uranium One deal, which gave Moscow, Russia, Vladimir Putin control of 20% of American uranium, the foundational materials for nuclear weapons."
> 
> Hannity said that "the FBI now has evidence that literally they used bribery to gain control over America's uranium industry -- all why the Obama administration did nothing and the Clintons benefited to the tune of nearly 145 million dollars."
> 
> He added, "Uranium One will be one of the biggest scandals this country has ever seen."


Definitely presidential material... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Yep.

The best reason yet for boycotting the NFL



> I confess that there have been times when I was tempted, like the boozer in rehab, to take just one little taste, but I have managed to remain steadfast. Now, as we are treated to weekly images of evermore empty NFL stadiums and declining television ratings, I no longer have to fear falling off the wagon, for just this very morning I read this:
> 
> _"Well, I think it's deeply troubling that the president would be attacking black athletes for expressing their opinions peacefully," [Hillary] Clinton told Sirius XM host Zerlina Maxwell. "Protest is a part of the American way of life and it's something that I'm very proud of whether I agree or disagree peaceful protest is part of what has helped us make progress, learn more, be a better country over time."
> 
> "I just couldn't help thinking that he has attacked these black athletes for peacefully protesting, but he doesn't really attack white supremacists, neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klanners, or Vladimir Putin, who interfered in our election and I think it's all part of his political calculation and I really think it's bad for the country. He wants to set people against each other, he wants to divide us," she added._​
> *Yep, that Clinton, hateful Hillary, the despised doyenne of defeat, the lame, lying lioness of losing, that selfsame, swamp-side elitist who last year looked me square in the eye through my television screen and contemptuously sneered that I, me, a poor kid, combat veteran, college graduate on the G.I. Bill with a successful career and retirement, an American success story, am a deplorable human being, has just given her blessing to this Democrat-induced racial cancer growing within the bowels of the NFL.*


My bold.

I jes' livs me a great summary...

'Sides, I learned a new word today: doyenne.


----------



## FeXL

Further on censoring the intertoobs.

Here Are Twitter's Latest Rules for Fighting Hate and Abuse



> On Friday CEO Jack Dorsey announced plans to act more aggressively. Twitter will introduce new rules around unwanted sexual advances, nonconsensual nudity, hate symbols, violent groups, and tweets that glorify violence, he tweeted. To add a sense of urgency, the company is holding daily meetings on the issue.


Conspiracy to censor Internet



> The First Amendment, which asserts that “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech,” is the broadest amendment in the US Constitution. Contrary to Applebaum, there is no caveat exempting anonymous speech from Constitutional protection. It is a historical fact that leaders of the American Revolution and drafters of the Constitution wrote articles under pseudonyms to avoid repression by the British authorities.
> 
> The Constitution does not give the government or powerful corporations the right to proclaim what is “fake” and what is not, what is a “conspiracy theory” and what is “authoritative”. The same arguments now being employed to crack down on social media could just as well have been used to suppress books and mass circulation newspapers that emerged with the development of the printing press. The drive toward Internet censorship in the United States is already far advanced. Since Google announced plans to bury “alternative viewpoints” in search results earlier this year, leading left-wing sites have seen their search traffic plunge by more than 50 percent. The World Socialist Web Site’s search traffic from Google has fallen by 75 percent.
> 
> Facebook, Twitter and other social media platforms have introduced similar measures. The campaign being whipped up over Russian online activity will be used to justify even more far-reaching measures. This is taking place as universities implement policies to give police the authority to vet campus events. There are ongoing efforts to abolish “net neutrality” so as to give giant corporations the ability to regulate Internet traffic. The intelligence agencies have demanded the ability to circumvent encryption after having been exposed for illegally monitoring the phone communications and Internet activity of the entire population.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

No Don, I'm thinking more the kind where a poster talks to himself because nobody's much interested in discussing his well-researched points. Been seeing a lot of that lately. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Ain't talking to myself, Freddie. You been watching the page counts go up? I have.

Feel free to jump in with something salient any time.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No Don, I'm thinking more the kind where a poster talks to himself because nobody's much interested in discussing his well-researched points. Been seeing a lot of that lately.


----------



## Macfury

i'm reading each and every one of the posts you're making here. Just skipping over Freddie's complaints is all.



FeXL said:


> Ain't talking to myself, Freddie. You been watching the page counts go up? I have.
> 
> Feel free to jump in with something salient any time.


----------



## SINC

Will the NFL ever learn to tell their players the protests are over if they want a paycheque?

Just In: Monday night football ratings tank, break record lows - www.americafastnews.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Will the NFL ever learn to tell their players the protests are over if they want a paycheque?
> 
> 
> 
> Just In: Monday night football ratings tank, break record lows - www.americafastnews.com




Since when is standing for the anthem a part of an NFL's players requirements as a football player? Until 2009, players stayed in the dressing room during the anthem.


----------



## FeXL

Ummm... Since 2009?

Inside the link you will find not only the 2014 version but also the updated, 2017 version.

The NFL Quietly Changed Its Obscure Rule About Standing For The National Anthem



Freddie_Biff said:


> Since when is standing for the anthem a part of an NFL's players requirements as a football player? Until 2009, players stayed in the dressing room during the anthem.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Ummm... Since 2009?
> 
> Inside the link you will find not only the 2014 version but also the updated, 2017 version.
> 
> The NFL Quietly Changed Its Obscure Rule About Standing For The National Anthem


 Not to be pedantic, but the statement from the NFL states “should” which is not the same as “must”.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not to be pedantic, but the statement from the NFL states “should” which is not the same as “must”.


They _should _do it--or face disciplinary action.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They _should _do it--or face disciplinary action.




The anthem or lack thereof has nothing to do with the sport, skills required, or renumeration for players. It's as much a part of the game as the Lord's Prayer.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> The anthem or lack thereof has nothing to do with the sport, skills required, or renumeration for players. It's as much a part of the game as the Lord's Prayer.


The point is that the protest has nothing to do with sport period. It does not belong as part of the game because it simply IS NOT part of the game. People want to forget politics and enjoy sports free of such grandstanding in ANY sport.

People will eventually end the stupidity with their feet by walking out on games and turning off the TV. When renumeration for players get cut due to falling revenues, watch them stand up again.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The anthem or lack thereof has nothing to do with the sport, skills required, or renumeration for players. It's as much a part of the game as the Lord's Prayer.


It's a job requirement. Whether or not it is a part of the game is irrelevant.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Not to be pedantic, but the statement from the NFL states “should” which is not the same as “must”.


I agree. However, as MF noted...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The point is that the protest has nothing to do with sport period. It does not belong as part of the game because it simply IS NOT part of the game. People want to forget politics and enjoy sports free of such grandstanding in ANY sport.
> 
> 
> 
> People will eventually end the stupidity with their feet by walking out on games and turning off the TV. When renumeration for players get cut due to falling revenues, watch them stand up again.




Fair enough, but one could also consider the use of the anthem before the game to be grandstanding. Literally.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's the dahlink of the left, Harvey Weinstein, doing?

Harvey Weinstein doesn’t seem to be taking sex rehab seriously



> Harvey Weinstein is already being belligerent at sex addiction rehab — barking into his banned mobile phone and remaining in denial about his alleged sex attacks, insisting each and every one was consensual, Page Six has exclusively learned.
> 
> The movie mogul, who volunteered to go to rehab after a wave of allegations of sexual harassment and rape against him from women in Hollywood, isn’t exactly in his element in therapy, falling asleep in sessions or talking on his phone, a source tells Page Six.


Wow, I'm _so_ surprised...


----------



## FeXL

The "why" was addressed in a post I made to this very thread some time back.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Fair enough, but one could also consider the use of the anthem before the game to be grandstanding. Literally.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's a job requirement. Whether or not it is a part of the game is irrelevant.



A job requirement? Really? And do they check for this skill during training camp? Why can't bending down on one knee be just as respectful to the flag of the country? In religion, kneeling is considered a bigger act of devotion than standing, for example, and this issue seems to be treated with a great sea of religiousity. "How dare you believe something different than what all of the people here at the game pretend to believe!" And what exactly did NFL players do prior to 2009, when they were in their dressing rooms and you couldn't see them when the anthem was played?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The "why" was addressed in a post I made to this very thread some time back.




Making it easy to forget or to have missed altogether. If it's important, you may want to refresh our memories as to the why.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Fair enough, but one could also consider the use of the anthem before the game to be grandstanding. Literally.


Cute, and along with the jet fighters flying over before every game. This whole anthem issue is a non-starter. It will not change anything. I would have more respect for a player who spends his money campaigning against the current police chief, head dog catcher or what ever. If the league actually cared about the anthem and the protests then there would be either suspensions or firings....but people get wrapped up in the 20 second sound bite.... this whole issue mixes misguided beliefs about the First Ammendment and being a patriot......if this is the biggest issue the US has had in the past 4 months then we should all move down there.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> A job requirement? Really? And do they check for this skill during training camp? Why can't bending down on one knee be just as respectful to the flag of the country? In religion, kneeling is considered a bigger act of devotion than standing, for example, and this issue seems to be treated with a great sea of religiousity. "How dare you believe something different than what all of the people here at the game pretend to believe!" And what exactly did NFL players do prior to 2009, when they were in their dressing rooms and you couldn't see them when the anthem was played?


Frank, more than likely you didn’t see the anthem because the TV networks were selling ad space.....it wasn’t until all this hype on kneeing that they even showed an interest.


----------



## Macfury

One of the requirements of their job is to stand during the anthem. Nothing else you said is relevant to that or changes it.





Freddie_Biff said:


> A job requirement? Really? And do they check for this skill during training camp? Why can't bending down on one knee be just as respectful to the flag of the country? In religion, kneeling is considered a bigger act of devotion than standing, for example, and this issue seems to be treated with a great sea of religiousity. "How dare you believe something different than what all of the people here at the game pretend to believe!" And what exactly did NFL players do prior to 2009, when they were in their dressing rooms and you couldn't see them when the anthem was played?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Frank, more than likely you didn’t see the anthem because the TV networks were selling ad space.....it wasn’t until all this hype on kneeing that they even showed an interest.




Actually, Rps, the league changed the rules in 2009 in some notion of patriotism to have the teams on the field during the anthem. It was not even an issue prior to that.


----------



## FeXL

Right. But now it is. Either play by the rules or pay the consequences. And not just the NFL's...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It was not even an issue prior to that.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the Clinton's, Barry, the Russkies & uranium some more.

Bill Clinton sought State’s permission to meet with Russian nuclear official during Obama uranium decision



> As he prepared to collect a $500,000 payday in Moscow in 2010, Bill Clinton sought clearance from the State Department to meet with a key board director of the Russian nuclear energy firm Rosatom — which at the time needed the Obama administration’s approval for a controversial uranium deal, government records show.
> 
> Arkady Dvorkovich, a top aide to then-Russian President Dmitri Medvedev and one of the highest-ranking government officials to serve on Rosatom’s board of supervisors, was listed on a May 14, 2010, email as one of 15 Russians the former president wanted to meet during a late June 2010 trip, the documents show.


Related:

Uranium & Diarrhea, Inc



> The big story this week is that the FBI uncovered a Moscow bribery plot just before the Obama Administration approved the transfer of 20 per cent of American uranium into the hands of the Russians.
> 
> And who precisely were the Russkies trying to bribe?
> 
> _They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton's charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.
> 
> The racketeering scheme was conducted "with the consent of higher level officials" in Russia who "shared the proceeds" from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later._​
> Fancy that! A racketeering scheme centered on the Clintons! Who'da thunk it? Other names in the story have a weary familiarity, too


Excellent read.


----------



## CubaMark

*So the Moron-in-Chief was at it again today....*

*Trump's 'radical Islamic terror' tweet fact-checked by agency he misquoted*

Early Friday morning, U.S. President Donald Trump started his day by tweeting about a U.K. report that, according to his assessment, found a link between rising crime in the country and the “spread of Radical Islamic terror.”

That assessment simply isn’t true, according to the agency Trump appeared to quote. In fact, the words “radical Islamic terror” never appeared in the public report published Thursday.

When asked about Trump’s tweet, the Office for National Statistic in the United Kingdom told the Washington Post, “The simple answer is that our statistical release bulletin yesterday made no link between terrorism and violent crime.”

The agency was asked to elaborate, but told the Post that there was nothing more to explain: “That is the answer. There is a simple answer. There is no long answer.”

Regardless, the falsehood was retweeted more than 20,000 times from Trump’s Twitter account, where he has more than 40.8 million followers. It was liked more than 75,000 times.










It also drew plenty of outrage. U.K. politicians from across the political spectrum called out the president for spreading false information.

Ed Miliband, a Labour MP, tweeted, _“Spreading lies about your own country: sad. Spreading lies about others: sadder. What an absolute moron.”_

(CTV)​


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> One of the requirements of their job is to stand during the anthem. Nothing else you said is relevant to that or changes it.


There are all sorts of rules around brands they can wear, symbols for charities, endzone dances, etc. 

Bring back the Ickey Shuffle!


----------



## FeXL

*IT'S A MIRACLE!!!*

Praise be & pass the next aspiring young actress...



> Harvey claims he's cured! Weinstein completes sex addict rehab in ONE WEEK then blasts accuser Lupita Nyong'o as a liar for her claims he forced her to massage him





> * Harvey Weinstein has completed a one-week sex addiction rehab in Arizona
> * Psychologist says he is 'dealing with his anger' and starting to 'work on empathy'
> * This despite reports that Weinstein was boorish in group therapy session
> * Disgraced producer was pulled from group after one session, psychologist says
> * Weinstein will reportedly remain in Arizona for additional stint with doctors
> * Spokesperson says he has 'different recollection' of Lupita Nyong'o encounter
> * Unnamed Italian actress levies new rape claim over alleged 2013 incident


C'mon, all you Progressive armchair psychologists out there in ehMacland. Explain to me how this works...


----------



## Macfury

Never a big hockey fan, but loved to see Eddie Shack do his act on the ice!



Beej said:


> There are all sorts of rules around brands they can wear, symbols for charities, endzone dances, etc.
> 
> Bring back the Ickey Shuffle!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> *IT'S A MIRACLE!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> Praise be & pass the next aspiring young actress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon, all you Progressive armchair psychologists out there in ehMacland. Explain to me how this works...




Why in the hell would any real psychologists be reporting on the inner workings of group therapy sessions? And to the press, no less?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why in the hell would any real psychologists be reporting on the inner workings of group therapy sessions? And to the press, no less?


Agreed. Who would go to that clinic if they thought the docs would report on them?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Agreed. Who would go to that clinic if they thought the docs would report on them?




On this we agree.


----------



## FeXL

Several NFL Stadiums Half Full or Worse



> The NFL entered Week 7 today and it's obvious the backlash against players kneeling for the national anthem continues.
> 
> Here are a few tweets from around the league showing fans voting with their pocketbooks by not purchasing game tickets, leading to half-full -- or worse -- stadiums.


----------



## Macfury

Many of the remaining attendees could be season ticket holders.



FeXL said:


> Several NFL Stadiums Half Full or Worse


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Many of the remaining attendees could be season ticket holders.


When you review the NFL attendance stats most teams average 96% capacity with many such as Dallas running 115% of capacity ( not sure how they do that ). So is a sellout all the tickets sold or all the seats taken. The lowest attendance is in Washington which averages 90% capacity. I watch a lot of games and they are no where near as empty as this article states....and there are some dreadful teams in that league right now. I mean, why would San Diego fans show up in LA after their team deserted them? 

Much of the decline in TV is due to cable cutting and streaming. Now, when the NFL has to “ make-goods” then I might have to agree. Hockey and Baseball would kill for those attendance figures .


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> I mean, why would San Diego fans show up in LA after their team deserted them?


I watched part of the Chargers-Broncos game yesterday. At least half of the fans were wearing orange. A pretty good indicator that the Chargers cannot fill even a 25,000 seat soccer stadium in La La land. Not at all sure why they made the move????

FWIW I too have cut the cable and watched through a back door. The Bronco performance was a painful reminder of the Dan Reeves era. Run on first down, then try to pass out of the hole they had just dug. Pathetic!


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> I watched part of the Chargers-Broncos game yesterday. At least half of the fans were wearing orange. A pretty good indicator that the Chargers cannot fill even a 25,000 seat soccer stadium in La La land. Not at all sure why they made the move????
> 
> FWIW I too have cut the cable and watched through a back door. The Bronco performance was a painful reminder of the Dan Reeves era. Run on first down, then try to pass out of the hole they had just dug. Pathetic!


I agree. I don’t intend to highjack the thread but that Pittsburgh game was dreadful....3rd down try’s were a joke. And I think this contributes to the perception of ratings downfall. The QBs are boring and the coaching routine. I know I will get some push back here but give me the CFL any day.....our rules make for a more open and exciting game.


----------



## FeXL

Questions, questions...

Because Islam has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism we need FBI Undercover Muslims



> In his first interview, an FBI undercover operative tells Scott Pelley how he infiltrated al Qaeda and thwarted potential terror attacks planned for New York and Toronto


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk s'more 'bout the next topic the left is studiously ignoring, the real Russkie issue!

Russian Spy Ring Got Close to Hillary Clinton; Previously, State Department Denied Russian Spy Ring Got Close to Hillary Clinton



> How did the Russian spy going by the name Cynthia Murphy get close to Hillary Clinton? Through her biggest weakness, of course -- money. Murphy got close to a Hillary fundraiser named Alan Patricof.
> 
> _*Back in 2010, when the spy story broke, Hillary Clinton's office issued a statement that there was “no reason to think the Secretary was a target of this spy ring.”
> 
> Court documents and agents who worked the case suggest otherwise, saying the Russians were specifically targeting her department and any intelligence they could get on the new administration’s emerging foreign policy.*_​


Links' bold.

Related:

Mueller Now Investigating the Podesta Group for Russia Lobbying



> The media doesn't like to talk about this, but Paul Manafort and the Podesta Group both worked to lobby on behalf of Russia -- so if Manafort's being investigated, why not the brother of Hillary's top adviser?
> 
> But now Robert Mueller's on the case to cover it up.
> 
> 
> Maybe Mueller will give the Podesta Group a sweetheart plea deal like his FBI gave the Russian uranium racketeer.


----------



## FeXL

I recall camping in a hayfield at Beulah, WY about 45 mins west of Sturgis, SD back in 1990. It was pretty warm with little chance of rain so my buddy & I just threw our sleeping bags on top of a ground sheet for Bike Week. Every hour or so, day or night, you could see the B-52's heading west overhead on patrol as they took off from Ellsworth AFB near Rapid City.

America prepares to put nuclear-armed bombers on 24-hour alert for first time since 1991



> America’s Air Force is preparing to put nuclear-armed bombers on 24-hour standby for the first time in a quarter of a century amid escalating tensions with North Korea.
> 
> The move would see B-52 planes carrying nuclear weapons sitting on the runway at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana and ready to fly when given the order.
> 
> It would be the first time the status was put in place since 1991, when the Cold War was nearing an end.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Illegal immigrant who paved way for Massachusetts’ ‘sanctuary’ policy arrested in stunning robbery



> The illegal immigrant whose case turned Massachusetts into a “sanctuary” state is behind bars yet again.
> 
> Police say he committed a stunning daylight robbery by taking a wheelchair-bound woman, slapping her and stealing the $2,000 she had just carried out of the bank.
> 
> Sreynuon Lunn had been free on the streets of Boston because his home country won’t take him back, leaving immigration officers no choice but to release him under a 2001 U.S. Supreme Court ruling.


I think they should give him citizenship & a Democratic political nomination. He obviously already has all the instincts required...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Weinstein's ignorant buddies!

Matt Damon and George Clooney: Goodness Us, We Never Heard a Blessed Thing About Weinstein's Misbehavior (Except for the Things We Did Hear About)



> They're out promoting a film Damon stars in and Clooney directed. Both men's careers were boosted by Harvey Weinstein. Both are saying they didn't know anything about his reputation of rape and assault and creeping, admitting only to knowing of vague "womanizing."
> 
> The trouble with that claim is, as John Sexton notes, Damon is also admitting to knowing more than that -- but he gets very, very vague about it.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> The iron...
> Illegal immigrant who paved way for Massachusetts’ ‘sanctuary’ policy arrested in stunning robbery
> I think they should give him citizenship & a Democratic political nomination. He obviously already has all the instincts required...


Perhaps an informative article, but I could not get past the ad-blocker blocker.tptptptp

EDIT: There is a bypass. 

The circumstances are intriguing. ICE couldn't and cannot hold him as they had and still have nowhere to send him to. All of which makes the sanctuary part of the headline seem completely irrelevant. 

That does not make him any less of a s#!t head, but the US has plenty of the homegrown variety as well.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Clinton's, Barry, the Russkies & the Trump dossier.

Shock: Clinton Campaign, DNC Paid For Research That Became the PeePeeParty Dossier



> Fusion's fighting a congressional subpoena to avoid disclosing who paid for this, and now Fusion releases this?
> 
> This is about the _second_ client -- who is now revealed to be Clinton and the DNC, which they've long denied, but which we've long suspected.
> 
> Meanwhile, Fusion is in court trying to defeat a congressional subpeona to find out who _both_ of the clients paying them for this were.
> 
> The second client we now know.
> 
> But the first remains hidden -- and if Fusion prevails in court, it will remain hidden.


Italics from link.

Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier



> The Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee helped fund research that resulted in a now-famous dossier containing allegations about President Trump’s connections to Russia and possible coordination between his campaign and the Kremlin, people familiar with the matter said.


BOMBSHELL REPORT: Clinton Campaign And DNC Funded Trump Dossier



> The Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee paid opposition research firm Fusion GPS to investigate Donald Trump as part of a project that led to the infamous dossier compiled by a former British spy.
> 
> According to a bombshell report from The Washington Post, Marc E. Elias, a lawyer for the Clinton campaign and DNC, and his law firm, Perkins Coie, hired Fusion GPS last April to investigate Trump.
> 
> Fusion, which was founded by former Wall Street Journal reporters, then hired former MI6 agent Christopher Steele to look into the former real estate baron’s activities in Russia.
> 
> Steele, who worked in Moscow during his days in British intelligence, would go on to produce a 35-page dossier consisting of 17 memos dated between June 20, 2016 and Dec. 13.


And, more Democratic/Russkie collusion:

Women’s March Promoted Russian Propaganda



> A popular Instagram account that promoted a militant form of feminism was actually run by Russian operatives, who successfully fooled Women’s March organizers into sharing their content.
> 
> The account, which operated under the handle @feminism_tag on Instagram, had tens of thousands of followers.
> 
> An investigation into the Kremlin’s cyber operations by Russian media outlet RBC named the account, which has since been deleted from Instagram, as among those operated by the Russians.


<crickets...>


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> BOMBSHELL REPORT: Clinton Campaign And DNC Funded Trump Dossier


Huh? 

Where's the "bombshell"?

The DNC investigated Trump during the campaign... well.. duh! Of course! And the RNC did the same with Clinton. It's standard operating procedure.

Does your Hilary derangement syndrome become activated whenever anyone adds an exclamation mark to something?

It's quite interesting... in the way studies of pathologies are interesting... how rabid you guys are about this.

Both the Dems and the Repubs are full of crooked, dirty-handed, immoral opportunists, and they're all desperate to find some piece of dirt on the other that can make headlines that they can translate into political power. It's called "American Democracy".

Clinton is dirty, no question. But I reiterate: she's at least the devil we knew. In the context of the exertion of American power internationally, she was a known quantity. Nothing positive could be expected from her presidency, just more of the same. 

But Trump - as we warned incessantly to no avail - was the devil we didn't quite know, but the stuff we did know scared the heck out of us. He's proven to be reckless, feckless, unstable, quick to anger, petty, vindictive, completely out of touch with reality, has played golf on average every 5th day of his presidency, turned the USA into a laughingstock, and created a far more divisive political climate than any of this so-called racial conflict that you accused Obama of fostering (unwarranted, at that).

In the end, who cares. The American empire is crumbling. And that's good news for the rest of the world, if we manage to get through a Trump presidency without that lunatic lighting up the midwest with missile launches. I'm pretty sure I'm not in one of the fallout zones, but I have friends and family who I'd like to see again without a glowing mushroom as a backdrop.

No U.S. president, no matter how significant his/her presidency is for breaking race or gender barriers, can be expected to do anything other than further the aims of the empire, extending the USA's military presence around the world, starting immoral wars on superficial humanitarian grounds which end up destroying lives, infrastructure and regional stability. 

Meanwhile, we sit back and get drawn into these stupid tit-for-tat gotcha moments, which ultimately are insignificant. Imagine if we put as much effort into constructively debating domestic and local policies to better our communities and our country. 

Yep. Just imagine.

:-(


----------



## Macfury

Disagree entirely, CM. The devil you knew is far worse than the person who scares you. And the crumbling of the Empire has now been stayed for awhile after accelerating under the big "O."


----------



## SINC

Another tid bit for all you Hillary fans.

Clinton campaign, DNC helped fund infamous Trump dossier | New York Post


----------



## FeXL

How many false accusations did the RNC fabricate about Bill in the process of preparing his dossier? Name them.

This "SOP report" is the basis for all the baseless accusations against Trump colluding with the Russians which, just in case you haven't been getting the news on MotherJones, has been the raison d'etre for the Dems since before Trump even got elected.

That's why this is news. That & the coverup, lies & denial from the Dems. Oh, & Bill's Wife's actual collusion & bribery with the Russkies involving Uranium 1. Too, Barry's involvement & legacy.

This is not getting swept under the carpet, CM. It will undoubtedly end up being under-reported by the left & MSM (but I repeat myself) but it is not going away:

Congress launches 2 investigations into Obama administration dealings



> House Republicans flexed their investigative muscle Tuesday, announcing two investigations into Obama administration dealings, including a 2010 uranium deal and the FBI’s handling of the probe of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s emails.
> 
> The investigations, which will be conducted by three committees, were launched after President Trump endured months of criticism and congressional inquiry into Russian interference in the election last year and speculation that members of the president’s campaign team colluded with Moscow.
> 
> Democrats were infuriated by the announcements, saying the investigations were partisan-fueled distractions meant to divert attention from the ongoing Russia matter.
> 
> Mr. Trump, though, has long called for these kinds of probes into his predecessor, Mr. Obama, and his Democratic presidential opponent, Mrs. Clinton.
> 
> One of the investigations, run by the House intelligence and oversight committees, will dig into the circumstances surrounding a 2010 Obama administration deal that allowed a Kremlin-backed company to gain control of a huge chunk of America’s uranium supply.


In addition, this little bonus:



> The second investigation announced Tuesday will probe how the Justice Department and former FBI Director James B. Comey handled an inquiry into Mrs. Clinton’s use of a secret email server to conduct government business while at the State Department.
> 
> House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, Virginia Republican, and House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy, South Carolina Republican, said they want to know why Mr. Comey decided to publicly announce the investigation of Mrs. Clinton but not the ongoing investigation of campaign associates of Mr. Trump, why the FBI provided updates to Congress about reopening of the probe after additional emails were found, and why the FBI rather than the Justice Department took the lead in deciding not to criminally charge Mrs. Clinton.





CubaMark said:


> The DNC investigated Trump during the campaign... well.. duh! Of course! And the RNC did the same with Clinton. It's standard operating procedure.


----------



## Macfury

Yup. If the RNC investigated Clinton, such information was never presented as the basis of an FBI investigation into her dirty dealings.


----------



## SINC

Looks like Bill Clinton is not the only ex-president who has bad habits.

*Former President George H.W. Bush accused of sexual assault by actress*

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ccused-of-sexual-assault-by-actress/23255162/


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> This "SOP report" is the basis for all the baseless accusations against Trump colluding with the Russians which, just in case you haven't been getting the news on MotherJones, has been the raison d'etre for the Dems since before Trump even got elected.


I think you are getting ahead of yourself. There are a considerable number of connections already revealed between the Trump campaign, the Trump family and Trump himself to give anyone pause. "baseless" isn't a term I'd be throwing around until after a good deal more investigative work has been done. 

As usual, one has to leave behind US-based media to gain any kind of objectivity. The Guardian UK has been delivering solid coverage on the story. Here's a recent take on the issue from across the pond:

*The Trump-Russia dossier: why its findings grow more significant by the day*

Nine months after its first appearance, the set of intelligence reports known as the Steele dossier, one of the most explosive documents in modern political history, is still hanging over Washington, casting a shadow over the Trump administration that has only grown darker as time has gone by.

It was reported this week that the document’s author, former British intelligence official, Christopher Steele, has been interviewed by investigators working for the special counsel on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

The Senate and House intelligence committees are, meanwhile, asking to see Steele to make up their own mind about his findings. The ranking Democrat on the House committee, Adam Schiff, said that the dossier was “a very important and useful guide to help us figure out what we need to look into”.

The fact that Steele’s reports are being taken seriously after lengthy scrutiny by federal and congressional investigators has far-reaching implications.

Originally commissioned by a private firm as opposition research by Donald Trump’s Republican and then Democratic opponents, they cite a range of unnamed sources, in Russia and the US, who describe the Kremlin’s cultivation over many years of the man who now occupies the Oval Office – and the systematic collusion of Trump’s associates with Moscow to help get him there.

The question of collusion is at the heart of the various investigations into links between Trump and Moscow. Even a senior Republican, Richard Burr, the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, admitted this week it was an open question.

Burr said his committee needed to talk Steele himself to assess the dossier properly and urged him to speak to its members or staff. According to an NBC report on Friday, Steele had expressed willingness to meet the committee’s leaders.

In his remarks this week, Burr said his committee had come to a consensus in supporting the conclusions of a US intelligence community assessment in January this year that Russian had conducted a multi-pronged campaign to interfere in the 2016 election, in Trump’s favour.

It is a finding that echoes the reports that Steele was producing seven months earlier. Trump has called the assessment a “hoax”, but there is no sign the three agencies that came to that conclusion, the CIA, FBI and NSA, have had any second thoughts in the intervening months.

“Many of my former CIA colleagues have taken [the Steele] reports seriously since they were first published,” wrote John Sipher, a former senior officer in the CIA’s National Clandestine Service on the Just Security website.
(The Guardian UK)​


----------



## FeXL

Despite 9 months of investigations by people who absolutely hate Trump (read: well-motivated) there is still zero hard evidence of any connection between Trump & the Russkies.

Period.

You can speculate, you can dream, you can wish, you can cast spells, you can rend your hair. Todate, it changes nothing.

What the investigation has revealed, however, is massive collusion between the Clinton Foundation, Bill, Bill's Wife, Barry, the Russkies & American uranium supplies.

Worth investigating, no? And probably just a bit more serious, too...



CubaMark said:


> I think you are getting ahead of yourself. There are a considerable number of connections already revealed between the Trump campaign, the Trump family and Trump himself to give anyone pause. "baseless" isn't a term I'd be throwing around until after a good deal more investigative work has been done.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Those crazy Progs...

Anguished Liberals Plan to 'Scream Helplessly at the Sky' on Anniversary of Trump Election



> Progressives have taken their Trump derangement syndrome to a whole new level...
> 
> Thousands of anguished libs in Boston and Philadelphia will be taking part in scream fests on Nov. 8 to commemorate the anniversary of Donald Trump's election. Liberals in other cities around the country are likely to step up to the crazy plate as well as the big day draws near.
> 
> Over 4,000 Facebook users in the Boston area have RSVP'd to attend the event they're calling "Scream helplessly at the sky on the anniversary of the election." Another 33,000 have expressed interest in attending the event at the 383-year-old Boston Common.


In the mean time, I'll be at home celebrating with a nice craft beer or a couple fingers of premium bourbon...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Nine months after its first appearance, the set of intelligence reports known as the Steele dossier, one of the most explosive documents in modern political history, is still hanging over Washington, casting a shadow over the Trump administration that has only grown darker as time has gone by.


Intelligence reports? It would be kind to call them "reports." None of it is from official sources.



CubaMark said:


> The fact that Steele’s reports are being taken seriously after lengthy scrutiny by federal and congressional investigators has far-reaching implications.


Since it's all they have, it's no wonder they're continuing to hang onto it.



CubaMark said:


> ...they *cite a range of unnamed sources*, in Russia and the US, who describe the Kremlin’s cultivation over many years of the man who now occupies the Oval Office – and the systematic collusion of Trump’s associates with Moscow to help get him there.


Powerful stuff...



CubaMark said:


> In his remarks this week, Burr said his committee had come to a consensus in supporting the conclusions of a US intelligence community assessment in January this year that Russian had conducted a multi-pronged campaign to interfere in the 2016 election, in Trump’s favour.


That was not the consensus. 



CubaMark said:


> It is a finding that echoes the reports that Steele was producing seven months earlier. Trump has called the assessment a “hoax”, but there is no sign the three agencies that came to that conclusion, the CIA, FBI and NSA, have had any second thoughts in the intervening months.


Neither any evidence that they accept it as true. Where does that leave us?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Where does that leave us?


Absolutely nowhere.

But they're all going to be baying at the moon in a few weeks! :clap::lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Neither any evidence that they accept it as true. Where does that leave us?


It has served as a useful diversion from the Uranium 1 mess. Those were a lot of Rubles raining down on the Clinton Foundation just prior to the deals approval.

BTW if Clinton and BO considered the Roosskies such a threat, why did they give them control of 20% of America's Uranium????????


----------



## Macfury

Because they are disingenuous?



eMacMan said:


> BTW if Clinton and BO considered the Roosskies such a threat, why did they give them control of 20% of America's Uranium????????


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> BTW if Clinton and BO considered the Roosskies such a threat, why did they give them control of 20% of America's Uranium????????


Large cabbage... :greedy:


----------



## FeXL

So, further on why this is a Big Deal.

Byron York: Now That the Clinton/DNC Connection to the FusionGPS Info Op is Established, The FBI Is the Next Cog in the Machine That Needs to be Confirmed
Update: Paul Ryan Adds His Weight to Subpeona



> _*It was an astonishing turn: the nation's top federal law enforcement agency agreeing to fund an ongoing opposition research project being conducted by one of the candidates in the midst of a presidential election. "The idea that the FBI and associates of the Clinton campaign would pay Mr. Steele to investigate the Republican nominee for president in the run-up to the election raises further questions about the FBI's independence from politics, as well as the Obama administration's use of law enforcement and intelligence agencies for political ends," wrote Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Charles Grassley.*_​


Links' bold.

Some Media and Dem Spinners Attempt to Downplay FusionGPS Dossier/DNC/HRC Connection, Claiming "We Already Knew That," But Reporters Complain That They Were Repeatedly Lied to When They Asked About It



> By the way, CNN, where apples are bananas and bananas are apples whenever their Democratic anonymous sources say so, asked Brian Fallon if his old (and current?) boss Hillary knew about the dossier. CNN expected him to say no, but Fallon said "maybe."


#FusionCollusion: 10 Facts About the Steele Dossier That Liberal Reporters Must Finally Acquaint Themselves With



> Evan Perez has been on the byline of just about every story CNN has run about the "Russia Collusion." These stories feature "sources" with knowledge of the dossier.
> 
> Would it surprise you terribly to hear that Evan Perez, who reports on Fusion's files, and Glenn Simpson, who created Fusion's files, used to write a heck of a lot of stories together, sharing a byline at the Wall Street Journal a whole heck of alot?
> 
> Is Evan Perez a friend of Simpson's? Is he a close friend? If he is, why is he acting as a reporter on a story he's compromised on, rather than directing Glenn Simpson to talk to a non-compromised-by-friendship reporter at CNN?
> 
> Is that why CNN speaks no evil about FusionGPS and Glenn Simpson?
> 
> Is that ethical?
> 
> Is the rule that you shouldn't play "objective reporter" about a source you're close to now a Banana Rule and no longer an Apple Rule?


Tucker Carlson: A Former Senior Operative at the Podesta Group Came Forward to Tell Us That There Was Russian Collusion -- But with the Podesta Group and the Hillary Clinton Camp, Not Trump



> Do not forget: Per insider admissions in _Shattered_, Team Hillary decided to push the "Russia Hacked the Election" disinformation campaign within 24 hours of her loss, and her leftist media supporters happily enlisted in the disinformation campaign themselves.
> 
> As a military intelligence friend has been telling me for eight months (with me not really believing him for most of that time): "This was an information op from start to finish."


----------



## FeXL

And, while we're talking about serial Prog sexual assaulters, how about one concerning the ol' horn dog hisself...

Report: Bill Clinton Ditched Secret Service Protective Detail Multiple Times to Take the Lolita Express to Pedo Isle



> _An investigation into official flight records of financier and convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein’s "Lolita Express" are once again dragging former President Bill Clinton into the national spotlight.
> 
> Flight logs obtained by Gawker in January 2015 put Mr. Clinton on the billionaire’s infamous jet more than a dozen times -- sometimes with a woman whom federal prosecutors suspect of procuring underage sex victims for Mr. Epstein. Fox News reported Friday that records show Mr. Clinton declined Secret Service protection on at least five flights.
> 
> The network’s investigation reveals Mr. Clinton flew on the Boeing 727 "Lolita Express" 26 times, more than doubling the previously reported 11 trips.
> "Bill Clinton … associated with a man like Jeffrey Epstein, who everyone in New York, certainly within his inner circles, knew was a pedophile. Why would a former president associate with a man like that?" said Conchita Sarnoff of the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, Fox reported. Ms. Sarnoff also authored a book on Mr. Epstein titled "TrafficKing."_​


----------



## FeXL

Even more Prog sex assaulters! :love2:

Five women accuse journalist and 'Game Change' co-author Mark Halperin of sexual harassment



> Veteran journalist Mark Halperin sexually harassed women while he was in a powerful position at ABC News, according to five women who shared their previously undisclosed accounts with CNN and others who did not experience the alleged harassment personally, but were aware of it.


I jes' luvs me his "confession":



> "During this period, I did pursue relationships with women that I worked with, including some junior to me," Halperin said in a statement to CNN Wednesday night. "*I now understand from these accounts that my behavior was inappropriate and caused others pain.* For that, I am deeply sorry and I apologize. Under the circumstances, I'm going to take a step back from my day-to-day work while I properly deal with this situation."


M'bold.

Yep, rubbing his erection against unwilling women never even crossed his mind as a Bad Thing until somebody complained about it. Nor did grabbing another woman's breasts.

The gall of these fukcers...

Related:

Five Women Accuse Liberal Media Prick Mark Halperin of Sexual Harassment 



> You asked for a miracle? I give you the M. S. M.
> 
> While Halperin apologizes for some stuff, he denies the more serious stuff about groping.
> 
> "Open Secret:" A CNN reporter says that Halperin's harassing ways were an open secret at ABC, which didn't seem to bother the arch-liberal, super-feminist MSNBC when they hired him.


I hope everyone of these bastards goes down like the Titanic. Long overdue for the dam to break.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Trump to bypass U.N. and send aid directly to persecuted Christians in Middle East



> Vice President Mike Pence announced Wednesday night that President Trump has ordered the State Department to shut off funding for “ineffective” United Nations programs to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East, saying the administration will take over those efforts directly.
> 
> “From this day forward, America will provide support directly to persecuted communities through USAID,” Mr. Pence said at the In Defense of Christians annual solidarity dinner in Washington. “We will no longer rely on the United Nations alone to assist persecuted Christians and minorities in the wake of genocide and the atrocities of terrorist groups.”


Now, if we could just get The Hairdo to fix his cranio-rectal inversion...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Good.
> 
> Trump to bypass U.N. and send aid directly to persecuted Christians in Middle East


Oh Lord (pardon the pun). USAID also known as the Agency for Implementing American Destabilization Efforts, in concert with the "National Endowment for Democracy" (a truly ironic nomenclature).

Surely nothing can go wrong with that plan.....


----------



## FeXL

Yer absolutely right.

We should give the money to the idiots that appointed Mugabe as an ambassador. After all, what could possibly go wrong...



CubaMark said:


> Surely nothing can go wrong with that plan.....


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yer absolutely right.
> 
> We should give the money to the idiots that appointed Mugabe as an ambassador. After all, what could possibly go wrong...


Absolutely, why shouldn't the least qualified, most self-aggrandizing dictators and fools on earth be placed in charge of dispersing the cash?


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Meanwhile, we sit back and get drawn into these stupid tit-for-tat gotcha moments, which ultimately are insignificant.


You may want to check how many posts you have on Trump in the last 8 months or so on often partisan issues. Maybe even rumours from unnamed sources.

"Be the change that you wish to see."

-Edited Gandhi quote, I think

Put another way, do "we get drawn into these stupid tit-for-tat gotcha moments" or are you helping to create more of said moments?


----------



## eMacMan

This one caught my eye and kinda sums up the antifa/violent left movement.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> This one caught my eye and kinda sums up the antifa/violent left movement.
> View attachment 82265


Interesting perspective. Wanting to punch a Nazi makes someone a Nazi. 

Logic fail.

XX)


----------



## CubaMark

*Meanwhile...*










_*...which pairs nicely with this:*_

*Study: GOP tax plan would cost $2.4 trillion*

The GOP's tax plan would cause revenue to drop between $2.4 trillion and $2.5 trillion over the course of a decade, even after economic growth is taken into account, according to an analysis from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.

The Tax Policy Center's initial September analysis of the plan drew fire from some conservatives for not including the effects of economic growth on revenues.

The updated report found almost no difference with growth effects, called dynamic scoring.

"The outline would reduce federal tax revenue by roughly $2.4 [trillion] over the next decade, nearly the same as under conventional scoring," the Tax Policy Center's Howard Gleckman wrote in a blog post on the matter.

In the second decade, the center added, revenues would fall by $3.4 trillion.

** * **​
The Trump administration has argued that economic growth stimulated by the tax breaks would bring in enough revenue to cover most-to-all of the revenue lost by the tax cuts.

On Thursday, the GOP adopted a budget that would allow up to $1.5 trillion in deficit-financed tax cuts. The party is struggling to find a way offset nearly $4 trillion in additional revenue losses incurred by their proposed cuts.

Earlier Friday, the White House Council of Economic Advisers released an analysis that said GDP would grow between 3-5 percent as a result of the tax plan.

Economists were skeptical.

"They cherry-picked analyses that aren't unreasonable, but they only looked at the ones that were favorable to their outlook," said Marc Goldwein, the Senior Policy Director at the fiscally conservative Center for a Responsible Federal Budget.

A prior Council of Economic Advisers paper arguing that the tax plan would accrue large benefits for workers had also come under fire. One of the authors cited in that paper said the council had misinterpreted the results.
(The Hill)​


----------



## Macfury

There's no such thing as a "share of global debt" because there is no such thing as a neat figure totaling "global debt." Not much of a surprise under that calculating that the world's firs or second-largest economy carries the largest "share of debt."

The framing of the article is also nonsense. You don't "finance" a tax cut. You finance spending. So the current plan needs to cut spending.


----------



## CubaMark

*And so it begins....*

*Paul Manafort, Once of Trump Campaign, Indicted as an Adviser Admits to Lying About Ties to Russia*

President Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was indicted Monday on charges that he funneled millions of dollars through overseas shell companies and used the money to buy luxury cars, real estate, antiques and expensive suits.

The charges against Mr. Manafort and his longtime associate Rick Gates represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over Mr. Trump’s first year in office.

Separately, one of the early foreign policy advisers to Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign, George Papadopoulos, pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about a contact with a Russian professor with ties to Kremlin officials, prosecutors said on Monday.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, was assigned in May to investigate whether anyone close to Mr. Trump participated in a Russian government effort to influence last year’s presidential election. Monday’s indictments indicate that Mr. Mueller has taken an expansive view of his mandate.
(NYTimes)​


----------



## Macfury

Read the indictments. This is part of an ongoing investigation into Manafort's private business dealings that Meuller took over after years of work. It has nothing to do with Trump or his campaign. 

Or do you really believe that Russians "meddled" in the US election?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Or do you really believe that Russians "meddled" in the US election?


Not nearly to the extent of Israeli intervention via APAC.


----------



## FeXL

Well, that's convenient...

Star Trek actor Anthony Rapp claims Kevin Spacey tried to seduce him when he was 14 as the House of Cards star says he 'can't remember' incident - but reveals he is now 'living as a gay man'



> * Anthony Rapp accused Kevin Spacey of making sexual advance when he was 14
> * Child star says he was watching TV at 1986 party when Spacey lay on top of him
> * Rapp said 'drunk' Spacey 'picked me up like a groom picks up the bride over the threshold'
> * Of the alleged incident, Rapp told BuzzFeed News: 'He was trying to seduce me'
> * He says he's coming forward now due to numerous sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein and others in Hollywood
> * Spacey issued a statement saying he doesn't remember the alleged encounter
> * He said: 'But if I did behave then as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior'
> * Spacey says he chooses 'now to live as a gay man' and wants to deal with this 'honestly and openly'
> * Actress Rose McGowan leads fury that he chose to come out in apology to Rapp
> * TV news anchor accused Spacey of assaulting loved one in tweet two weeks ago


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Not nearly to the extent of Israeli intervention via APAC.


Or Obama sending diplomats to Israel to prop up the campaign of Netanyahu's rival. 

Like all of these ridiculous "probes" they will continue to harangue people until they find something. Manafort was an easy indictment because he had already been under investigation for so long for money laundering. You would think that speaking to a Russian was the crime.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The framing of the article is also nonsense. You don't "finance" a tax cut. You finance spending. So the current plan needs to cut spending.


I beg to differ, there is the opportunity cost of the loss of revenue on the tax cut. The hope is that the effects of the cuts will “ trickle” down to more discretionary spending which would spur grow......I think we can all agree that trickle down has never worked.

Sorry I forgot to add, I agree you need a plan to curb spending.....


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I beg to differ, there is the opportunity cost of the loss of revenue on the tax cut. The hope is that the effects of the cuts will “ trickle” down to more discretionary spending which would spur grow......I think we can all agree that trickle down has never worked.


"Trickle down" has little to do with the effect of tax cuts, which tend to spur increases in revenue as a result of increased business activity. However, even if they led to a decline in revenue, that should be followed by a decline in spending.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> "Trickle down" has little to do with the effect of tax cuts, which tend to spur increases in revenue as a result of increased business activity. However, even if they led to a decline in revenue, that should be followed by a decline in spending.


Actually trickle down has everything to do with tax cuts.....but you are right on the spending cuts......


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Actually trickle down has everything to do with tax cuts.....but you are right on the spending cuts......


Trickle down is specifically a question of whether tax cuts on higher incomes result in increased income for people further down the food chain.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This is part of an ongoing investigation into Manafort's private business dealings that Meuller took over after years of work.


Precisely. I ran across a link to the same article earlier today. It was prefaced by this statement:



> That New York Times headline should read: Paul Manafort, Who Once Ran Trump Campaign, Told to Surrender on matters totally unrelated to the Trump campaign or President Trump.


I wondered if some Prog was going to try to slip that one past without actually reading the article.

Never disappointed...


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trickle down is specifically a question of whether tax cuts on higher incomes result in increased income for people further down the food chain.


The concept “works” at all levels, only when it is addressed to the lowest levels there is little discretionary funds left to impact the up flow. Really there probably is no such thing as discretionary funds at the lowest levels, all are at the survival mode.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Precisely. I ran across a link to the same article earlier today. It was prefaced by this statement:
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered if some Prog was going to try to slip that one past without actually reading the article.
> 
> Never disappointed...


Not to be argumentative. But as if you have never slanted a highlight in a post..... but he was an ex not a current.....have you thought that maybe that is why he is an ex.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Not to be argumentative. But as if you have never slanted a highlight in a post.....


If I ever post anything that's as disconnected from reality as that headline is to the _facts_ of the actual matter, I entirely expect to be corrected. 

If it doesn't then I know my little ehMac fan club has truly given up. Or died...

It's typical lefty MSM spin: We can't find any facts that actually connect him to colluding with Trump but we're going to subtly implicate it (& smear Trump) by referring to him as _Trump's_ man.



Rps said:


> ...but he was an ex not a current.....have you thought that maybe that is why he is an ex.


Not following you.  He? And ex what?


----------



## Rps

Former Campaign Chair.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Former Campaign Chair.


Gotcha. Interesting read below. From point #2 at the link:

5 Things to Know About Paul Manafort's Arrest in the Mueller Trump-Russia Probe



> Trump hired Manafort mere months before the Republican National Convention, and at the time, there was serious chatter about using convention rules to deny Trump the Republican nomination. Shortly after the convention went off without a hitch, Trump demoted Manafort, who subsequently resigned.
> 
> Trump's decision to hire Manafort may have been a grievous mistake, but in terms of the challenge at hand and the most likely reason Trump hired Manafort, the decision proved successful. It seems that Trump made the calculation that it was worth it to hire a man with a shady past, so long as he could get the job done.


It sounds like he had accomplished what he'd been hired to do & that was the end of his utility to Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Manafort's talent was bucking up delegates at party conventions.



FeXL said:


> Gotcha. Interesting read below. From point #2 at the link:
> 
> 5 Things to Know About Paul Manafort's Arrest in the Mueller Trump-Russia Probe
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like he had accomplished what he'd been hired to do & that was the end of his utility to Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Manafort's talent was bucking up delegates at party conventions.


Right. Which is why I believe there was nothing nefarious in his exodus from the Trump camp.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk s'more about all those shining examples of upstanding Prog virtue & feminism!

New Claims Against Harvey Weinstein Go Back to the 1970s



> It has been 25 days since The New York Times broke the dam with details of Harvey Weinstein's history of alleged sexual misconduct, a pattern of behavior, the paper reported at the time, that stretched over at least three decades.
> 
> On Monday, the Times added to its explosive investigation with a new report featuring four new on-the-record accusers, two of whom say that Weinstein raped or assaulted them in the 1970s, a decade that had yet to be included in previous reports. Another accuser, a dancer named Ashley Matthau, said that after Weinstein victimized her in a hotel room, she reached a settlement with him through a lawyer who threatened to "drag you through the mud by your hair" if she chose to go public with their encounter.


Weinstein 'offered Rose McGowan $1m' hush money



> Actress Rose McGowan says she was offered $1m (£760,000) from Harvey Weinstein in exchange for her silence.
> 
> McGowan says she turned down the money the day before the New York Times ran an expose on the movie mogul.
> 
> She told the paper through her lawyer that someone close to Weinstein said she could have the money if she would sign a non-disclosure agreement.
> 
> McGowan is one of several women to accuse Weinstein of rape. He denies all allegations of non-consensual sex.


Another darling of Hollywood accused of being a predator. Once again everyone knew: How stories of Kevin Spacey's behaviour have long alarmed others in the industry



> Although Rapp’s allegations mark the first time Spacey has been accused of targeting a child, it’s clear stories of his behaviour have long alarmed others in a famously tolerant industry.
> 
> And whether it was unwitting or not, Spacey’s refusal to discuss his sexuality over the years has allowed his fans to deflect stories alleging his targeting of young men as homophobia.
> 
> In 2004, eyebrows were raised when Spacey, who was living in London, claimed he was mugged in a park in Lambeth, South London, at 4am but then dropped the complaint.
> 
> In 2015, the now defunct showbusiness gossip site Gawker ran a score of emails – sent anonymously by readers – listing the way in which the actor allegedly targeted young men. On that website, a source on the production team of House Of Cards, the acclaimed Netflix remake of the 1990 BBC mini-series, claimed Spacey solicited male crew members in their early 20s for sex in his trailer.


It's been a helluva month, hasn't it? I jes' luvs when another Prog narrative goes down like the Titianic...


----------



## FeXL

I can think of another responsible one who is still stumbling around the country, crying into her vodka glass about losing the election...

US captures key militant in Benghazi attack



> American special operations forces and FBI agents have captured a militant who allegedly was involved in the deadly attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound and CIA annex in Benghazi, Libya, two U.S. officials confirmed to Fox News on Monday.
> 
> Officials identified the suspect as Mustafa al-Imam. The capture took place Sunday at an unknown location in Libya.
> 
> The attack, on September 11, 2012, killed four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk about s'more of those outstanding lefties currently in the news! You know the ones I speak of. All those SJW's who are staunch feminists, championing women's rights, etc.

New Hollywood 'predator' unmasked: Rush Hour director Brett Ratner 'sexually assaulted a teenage Natasha Henstridge and masturbated in front of Olivia Munn' - as six women make allegations against him



> # Brett Ratner, 48, is being accused of sexual assault and/or harassment by six women in a Los Angeles Times exposè
> # Natasha Henstridge claims that Ratner blocked her from leaving a friend's house in the early nineties and then forced the then-19-year-old to perform oral sex
> # Olivia Munn claims that in 2004 a pantless Ratner surprised her in his trailer and began masturbating in front of her to the point of ejaculation
> # Katherine Towne claims Ratner followed her into his bathroom after she rejected his advances at a 2005 party and told her he liked women 'chubby sometimes'
> # Jamie Ray Newman claims that in 2005 Ratner 'graphically described' how he wanted to perform oral sex on her and show her nude photos of his girlfriend
> # Ratner, who was dating Serena Williams in 2005, is denying all these allegations through his attorney Marty Singer
> # Warner Bros. is now reevaluating their $450 million four-year deal with Ratner's RatPac Entertainment, which he formed with James Packer and Steve Mnuchin


----------



## FeXL

We got s'more dirt on Bill's Wife!

Donna Brazile: I Found Proof the DNC Rigged the Primaries for Hillary Clinton



> She says that, when she took over the DNC following Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's ouster (for rigging the primaries for Hillary), she promised Bernie Sanders she would look into these allegations and report back if there was any proof of #Collusion between the DNC and HRC.
> 
> She says she found it. And this is strange for her to be admitting, given that she attempted to rig the primary for Hillary herself by giving debate questions to Hillary ahead of the debate.
> 
> She began to learn about this when she investigated why the DNC was so broke -- she blames Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's negligence as a leader for this.


----------



## Dr.G.

.


----------



## CubaMark

Jeebus, but the RNC put forth a bunch of winners for President, eh? 


*Timothy Cama*
@Timothy_Cama

*Full Perry quote on fossil fuels/sexual assault*








:yikes:


----------



## Macfury

You're really misinformed. Access to lighting is considered an important goal in protecting women from assault. You didn't even bother to check this before lashing out? 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/feb/21/urban-services-violence-against-women



> ActionAid International interviewed women in six cities – in Recife (Brazil), Phnom Penh (Cambodia), Addis Ababa (Ethiopia), Mombasa (Kenya), Monrovia (Liberia) and (Kathmandu) Nepal – who spoke of the daily threats they face, including rape, sexual harassment, robbery and beatings, in public spaces and around their homes and places of work.
> 
> The report says lack of access to public services such as transport, decent housing, sanitation, water *and street lighting *was leaving poor women and girls vulnerable and exposed. Systematic failings by police to address the widespread problem of violence against women and girls exacerbated these threats.
> 
> More than half the global population – around 3.4 billion people – now live in urban areas. The UN says rapid urbanisation has increased the risks for people living in urban areas, especially women and children. According to its figures, global crime rates rose by 30% between 1980 and 2000. Between 2002 and 2007, 60% of urban residents in developing countries, the majority women and young girls, reported they had been victims of crime.
> 
> Women street vendors in Addis Ababa told ActionAid that lack of policing meant they were attacked and robbed on their way home from work by men who knew they were carrying money.
> 
> In Phnom Penh, garment workers lived in cramped, rented rooms with few basic facilities near their place of work. Many are forced to walk down dark, muddy roads late at night after overtime shifts. A lack of policing and *street lighting* has led to the constant risk of attack, robbery or sexual assault.


From the report:

https://www.actionaid.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/women_and_the_city.pdf



> In Ziwa la Ng’ombe women fear being attacked in dark alleys and back streets, especially because of poor lighting.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You're really misinformed. Access to lighting is considered an important goal in protecting women from assault. You didn't even bother to check this before lashing out?


I'm not misinformed at all - I understand what Perry was trying to say. But the role of a politician would seem to include the ability to communicate. And what the hell is this "righteousness" of which he speaks? Fossil fuel-powered electrical light power is a gift from God or something? :lmao:


----------



## SINC

Ah, yes, more on that fine lady that luckily was not elected. 

Ex-DNC chair reveals how Clinton ‘rigged’ Dem primary | New York Post


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Ah, yes, more on that fine lady that luckily was not elected.
> 
> Ex-DNC chair reveals how Clinton ‘rigged’ Dem primary | New York Post


 Sad. Sanders would have been a fine president. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Dr.G. said:


> Sad. Sanders would have been a fine president. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


I am no fan of Trump and the longer he is in power, the worse he seems to become. Not much of what he says and does makes any sense to me, but if nothing else he seems to have shaken up the entire US political system. If he is removed at some point in this term, and some days it looks more and more that he might be, it will forever change the face of American politics.

That noted, I must admit that the more I read about Clinton's devious antics along with the Clinton Foundation, I am not so sure she would have been any better, and perhaps worse. It astounds me that with 300 million plus citizens, the US system could not have come up with two far better candidates from the Dems or Reps. It is too bad a fringe candidate like Sanders was destined to lose from the very beginning, since as far as I know all modern presidents have been from one of the two main parties. Rejecting Sanders may have been the biggest mistake of all by voters, for any stability in US government.


----------



## Macfury

Trump was not a republican by history, just as Sanders was never a Democrat. I believe Sanders would have been a horrific choice as president, but he should have been the Democrat nominee. 

You can blame the Democrats for trotting out tired old Hillary, but you can also blame the Republicans for trying to anoint Jeb Bush. The notion that family dynasties are preferred by the political elite (and some voters) is really troubling.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump was not a republican by history, just as Sanders was never a Democrat. I believe Sanders would have been a horrific choice as president, but he should have been the Democrat nominee.
> 
> You can blame the Democrats for trotting out tired old Hillary, but you can also blame the Republicans for trying to anoint Jeb Bush. The notion that family dynasties are preferred by the political elite (and some voters) is really troubling.


I think both you and Sinc have valid points. Personally, I view Sanders as our equivalent to the old time NDP.....great in opposition but you might not want them in power. At issue, I believe, is that the Dems and the GOP do not know what they want to be when they grow up. More and more are focused on winning rather than governing and they are so ideologically based ( some still trying to figure out what that ideology is ) that they do not focus on governing and creating valid policy...rather they are attacking each other to the detriment of good government. What also is a problem is that the state and feds are in lockstep with this. When you mix this with a tabloid style mainstream media, a penchant for newsfotainment, and the web-journalists who tout their own agenda it makes it difficult to get a sense of which inmate is running the asylum. To make matters worse, the US Supreme Court has cast rulings which favour the monied when it comes to electioneering. You mix this with a for profit, and in my estimation weak education system and you get what you get.....incomplete knowledge voting for incomplete policies by incomplete politicians.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Trump was not a republican by history, just as Sanders was never a Democrat.


Historically is anyone the thing they say they are. At one time the Republicans were more like democrats and vice versa.


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> I am no fan of Trump and the longer he is in power, the worse he seems to become. Not much of what he says and does makes any sense to me, but if nothing else he seems to have shaken up the entire US political system. If he is removed at some point in this term, and some days it looks more and more that he might be, it will forever change the face of American politics.
> 
> That noted, I must admit that the more I read about Clinton's devious antics along with the Clinton Foundation, I am not so sure she would have been any better, and perhaps worse. _*It astounds me that with 300 million plus citizens, the US system could not have come up with two far better candidates from the Dems or Reps.*_ It is too bad a fringe candidate like Sanders was destined to lose from the very beginning, since as far as I know all modern presidents have been from one of the two main parties. Rejecting Sanders may have been the biggest mistake of all by voters, for any stability in US government.


Yep. I said on a number of occasions that I was glad I no longer had a vote in that election and that whoever won the nation would be the loser.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm feeling a little lightheaded.... I've just seen five consecutive posts on ehMac that are reasonable, not filled with hate or prejudice, and which for the most part I am in agreement.

Today just might be the day to buy a lottery ticket.... or a fallout shelter. Jury is still out.

:yikes:


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Rejecting Sanders may have been the biggest mistake of all by voters, for any stability in US government.


Sad, but all too true, Sinc. I voted for Sanders in the Georgia primaries, which he lost. I voted for Clinton for the presidency since she was far superior to Trump. Still, we would be looking at a different, and in my opinion, better USA if Sanders had run and beaten Trump in the 2016 election. Such is Life. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> I'm feeling a little lightheaded.... I've just seen five consecutive posts on ehMac that are reasonable, not filled with hate or prejudice, and which for the most part I am in agreement.
> 
> Today just might be the day to buy a lottery ticket.... or a fallout shelter. Jury is still out.
> 
> :yikes:


Do NOT rock the boat, CM. Civility is what brings people back to threads like these. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Historically is anyone the thing they say they are. At one time the Republicans were more like democrats and vice versa.


Interesting point, Rp, and for the most part true. Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would not be acceptable to today's Republican party.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting point, Rp, and for the most part true. Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would not be acceptable to today's Republican party.


Yes, I was actually thinking of TR when I posted the comment.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Yes, I was actually thinking of TR when I posted the comment.


Yes, he would lead the procession of being lead out of the Republican National Presidential Convention ................ with the likes of Lincoln and Jefferson not even allowed in the "big tent".


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> Interesting point, Rp, and for the most part true. Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would not be acceptable to today's Republican party.


Or the Democrat party, for that matter!


----------



## FeXL

I agree. Reading about the despicable left is getting rather tiresome. Albeit very satisfying...



CubaMark said:


> I'm feeling a little lightheaded.... I've just seen five consecutive posts on ehMac that are reasonable, not filled with hate or prejudice, and which for the most part I am in agreement.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Or the Democrat party, for that matter!


It would depend upon who was in charge of the DNC. An open party would welcome them with open arms. Paix, mon ami


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> It would depend upon who was in charge of the DNC. An open party would welcome them with open arms. Paix, mon ami


They didn't even welcome Bernie, and were downright hostile to Martin O'Malley! By that definition, any "open party" would be welcoming.


----------



## FeXL

Well, we have another entry in the "Expose Another Sick Lefty" trope today.

Seems that George Soros' (why am I not surprised) investment fund manager was running a little human trafficking business on the side.

Top investment fund manager for George Soros who was featured in Liar's Poker 'ran human trafficking enterprise in which he raped, electrocuted and imprisoned women in NYC sex dungeon', lawsuit claims



> # Howard 'Howie' Rubin, 62, is accused of rape and assault by three women
> # They are all models from Florida who say he lured them to New York in or after 2016
> # Rubin's staff within 'the enterprise' contacted them on Instagram, they say
> # Once in Manhattan, they say he raped them in a sex dungeon in a penthouse apartment bought specifically for the attacks
> # He then left to go 'back to his wife and kids' on the Upper East Side, they claim
> # The attacks were 'covered up by members of the 'enterprise' and his associates'
> # Rubin worked for George Soros's investment fund between 2008 and 2015
> # Before that he had a notorious and colorful 30-year career on Wall Street
> # He is married with three children and has not responded to the allegations
> # The alleged victims are demanding $27million from him in a 63-page lawsuit


Related:

Fifty Shades of Red: Former Portfolio Manager of Soros-Founded Investment Fund Accused of Raping, Beating Women in Manhattan Penthouse Sex Dungeon



> At some point, we're just going to find out that every paranoid suspicion we've had about the Overclass is 100% true.


Yep...

More:



> _A former portfolio manager for an investment fund founded by financier George Soros sexually abused women at a Manhattan penthouse dungeon, according to a $27 million Brooklyn federal suit....
> 
> The three unidentified plaintiffs in the case — including two Playboy Playmates — claim the married father raped and beat them to the point that they needed extensive medical attention, court papers say.
> 
> At the $8 million penthouse, they were shown to a side room featuring ropes, chains and sex toys along with other BDSM equipment....
> 
> "I'm going to rape you like I rape my daughter," Rubin barked during one of the alleged assaults.
> 
> In one session, he beat one of the women’s "breasts so badly that her right implant flipped," the papers state.
> 
> The former Bear Stearns trader paid her $20,000 to repair the damage.
> 
> One plaintiff was tied up, gagged and shocked with a cattle prod in her groin before Rubin allegedly raped her, according to the filing._​


And here I thought that they were all champions of freedom, individual rights, feminism, respect, etc., etc., etc., and the right was s'pose to be the exploiters & haters & misogynists.

Who knew? (rhetorical question...)

And, while we're on the topic, here's a few more shining examples of the compassionate, intellectual, left:

Media Elites Plead Ignorance of Their Own ‘Open Secret’ Sex Harassers, Abusers



> Now that no fewer than five high-level players within the elite media — power brokers connected to ABC News, NBC News, MSNBC, Bloomberg News, the _New York Times_, _Rolling Stone_, NPR, and the _New Republic_ — stand accused of various forms of sexual misconduct, we are being led to believe that over the course of decades, _nobody knew_.


Here's an interesting synopsis:

The Left's Long Goodbye



> All these developments have caused critical damage to the left. With Weinstein’s fall, a massive source of funding is gone. The NFL debacle has seriously embarrassed the left in the eyes of the working and middle class. The decree revelation is forcing Hillary, the DNC, and everyone associated with them – a number that amounts to hundreds if not thousands of people, all of them key active leftists – to expend time, effort, and money on lawyering up and preparing for the legal ordeals to come, at the expense of their campaigns to overthrow the Demon-lord Trump. Tony Podesta’s downfall has paralyzed another liberal dirty-trick shop, while his brother and alter-ego to Hillary stands frozen in place, waiting for the hammer to fall.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What the investigation has revealed, however, is massive collusion between the Clinton Foundation, Bill, Bill's Wife, Barry, the Russkies & American uranium supplies.
> 
> Worth investigating, no? And probably just a bit more serious, too...


No. Not at all serious. Not even a serious story. Just a massive distraction effort that curiously happens to coincide with revelations of Russian ties with Trump's team. Funny, that. 

The whole Russia Uranium story is nicely explained here - but of course, you won't read it, because it's at the CBC which you've declared you shall never visit, and thus will remain in right-wing ignorance forever...

*Trump is hyping a uranium scandal about Hillary Clinton. Here's why some observers call it 'bogus'*


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> No. Not at all serious. Not even a serious story. Just a massive distraction effort that curiously happens to coincide with revelations of Russian ties with Trump's team. Funny, that.


Having met with a Russian is not under investigation. Only collusion to "meddle with the election. So "not funny that."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Having met with a Russian is not under investigation. Only collusion to "meddle with the election. So "not funny that."


Typical MF. Avoid the Uranium fake news reveal, and pivot for distraction. SSDD.

And meanwhile, just when you think we've reached _peak stupid_....

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) overhauled its external advisory boards Friday with new members representing various regulated industries and states, among other entities.

Among the dozens of new members to the Science Advisory Board, Clean Air Safety Advisory Committee and Board of Scientific Counselors are representatives of Phillips 66 Co., Southern Co. and the North Dakota Petroleum Council.

Some of the new advisers have controversial scientific views, including one who believes air quality is too clean for children, while the new members include multiple climate change skeptics

** * **​
*Tony Cox*, the new head of the clean air committee, runs a consulting firm serving oil and chemical clients. He has published research questioning whether recent reductions in pollutants like fine particulate matter and ozone yields health benefits, which runs contrary to the EPA’s position.

*Robert Phalen* of the University of California, Irvine is a new science board member. *He has argued that current air quality in the United States is too clean for “optimum health.*”
(The Hill)​


----------



## Macfury

How is this different from appointing a bunch of global warming ninnies?


Next.


----------



## FeXL

Yah. Just a _little_ bit...



CubaMark said:


> No. Not at all serious. Not even a serious story.


If MotherCorpse is the only one "nicely explaining" it from the left's perspective, that's all the proof I need that it's a great, big, fat, excuse of a nothingburger for them.

Everything I've already read on the topic make perfect sense.



CubaMark said:


> The whole Russia Uranium story is nicely explained here - but of course, you won't read it, because it's at the CBC which you've declared you shall never visit, and thus will remain in right-wing ignorance forever...


----------



## FeXL

What fake news? Be specific.



CubaMark said:


> Avoid the Uranium fake news reveal...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

It _may_ be, but it isn't.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


Could be a new TV show -- The Shady Bunch.


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Could be a new TV show -- The Shady Bunch.



:clap: :lmao: :clap: :lmao: :clap:


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> :clap: :lmao: :clap: :lmao: :clap:


A remake movie as well????????? From Russia With Love.


----------



## Dr.G.

I liked the sign that greeted Pres. Trump when his plane landed in Hawaii. As he came off the plane he was greeted by a sign which read "Welcome to Kenya".


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> I liked the sign that greeted Pres. Trump when his plane landed in Hawaii. As he came off the plane he was greeted by a sign which read "Welcome to Kenya".


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


>


That's kind of a coincidence. Former President Obama says he was born in Hawaii, yet many people believe he was born in Kenya.


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from the Washington Post --

"Taxes would rise for many in working class and fall for richest Americans under House GOP tax plan, analysis shows

House Republicans' bill would increase taxes for 12 percent of Americans next year, according to a new report from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. By 2027, 28 percent of Americans would see their taxes rise, the report says.

Most Americans earning between $49,000 and $86,000 would get a tax cut next year, but the biggest benefits would go to the very rich, the report said."

So??? Where is the new news here????


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Bill's Wife s'more!

In Early Drafts of Comey's Memo on Hillary's Emails, He Found Her "Grossly Negligent," Satisfying the "Intent" Part of the Law



> The mental state, the _mens rea_, specified in the law is "gross negligence" (at the low end). Finding her to be grossly negligent would have satisfied the mens rea requirement and made her eligible for prosecution -- but apparently at some point Comey decided he was voting for Hillary and so took that out and began insisting that "intent" and nothing less was required when the candidate he was voting for was being probed for violations of the law.


More:



> The Washington Examiner founds that Comey initially concluded that she did remove classified information from its proper custody in a grossly negligent manner, but later, for reasons unknown, edited those parts out of his findings and began insisting that nothing short of "intent" was required.


Curiouser & curiouser...

Related:

FBI originally deemed Clinton ‘grossly negligent’ in handling of secret emails



> The FBI originally planned to say that Hillary Clinton was “grossly negligent” in her handling of secret emails, a top senator said Monday, revealing early drafts of the statement that James B. Comey drew up as FBI director.
> 
> Sen. Charles E. Grassley, Iowa Republican and chairman of the Judiciary Committee, demanded that the FBI detail why Mr. Comey nixed that phrase in later drafts.
> 
> Gross negligence would seem to be a high enough standard to have prosecuted Mrs. Clinton — though Mr. Comey ended up not recommending charges, saying that while the former first lady, senator and top diplomat was clueless, *he couldn’t prove she knew how badly she was risking national security.*


M'bold.

Once again, from what I have read on the subject, proving intent is not a requirement. Neither is cluelessness a defence...

And, for those of you keeping track of such things, one year ago tomorrow the Progs had their hopes dashed on lying, cheating, thieving, stealing Bill's Wife ever making it into the White House.

Woohoo!!! Praise the Lord & pass the meat & potatoes. We dodged _that_ bullet.


----------



## FeXL

And, while we're talking despicable lefties...

Manhattan DA to seek Weinstein indictment as early as next week



> The Manhattan district attorney will seek an indictment against Harvey Weinstein as early as next week — ignoring an NYPD plan to immediately slap the movie mogul in cuffs, sources told The Post.
> 
> Cops had been building a case against the predatory producer for allegedly raping actress Paz de la Huerta twice in 2010.
> 
> Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said last week the department is sharing information with DA Cy Vance’s office and the next step would be to obtain an arrest warrant to pick up Weinstein in Arizona, where he is in rehab.


'Sides, making an announcement public like this gives the bastard a chance to skedaddle...

Harvey Weinstein used ex-Mossad agents and an 'army of spies' to gather details about the personal lives and sexual histories of dozens of actresses and journalists - and one tricked Rose McGowan for months using alias of a 'women's rights activist'



> Ronan Farrow's new expose reveals the terrifying and costly lengths Harvey Weinstein went through in order went to silence his accusers
> Weinstein hired Black Cube, run by former Israeli intelligence officers of Mossad, and Kroll, the biggest global corporate-intelligence firm
> One corporate intelligence agent posed as a woman's right activist to get actress Rose McGowan to discuss her claims and turn over a draft of her memoir
> McGowan emailed with the woman as recently as October 23 and met with her on four occasions, opening up about her alleged rape by Weinstein
> Weinstein allegedly tricked an ex-employee into revealing a list of her old colleagues, then forced her to call them to see who had spoken to the press
> He conducted much of his investigations with his secret intelligence agencies through his lawyers so they'd be protected by attorney-client privilege
> Farrow said on Good Morning America Tuesday that there was more to come from this story


Every Major Lefty Mag Engulfed by Sexual Harassment Scandals



> This is big. In some ways bigger than what's going on in Hollywood.
> 
> If you were to name the big lefty magazines outside the mainstream media brands, you would probably come up with The Nation, Mother Jones and what's left of The New Republic.
> 
> Here's what they look like now.
> 
> First, Mother Jones.
> 
> _Mother Jones magazine’s editor and chief executive acknowledged on Thursday that they investigated Washington bureau chief David Corn for inappropriate workplace behavior three years ago, warning him about touching female staffers and insensitive descriptions of sexual violence, and would now probe the allegations further in light of two emails written by former staffers in 2014 and 2015 and obtained by POLITICO.
> 
> One of the emails, written in 2015 by a former staffer outlining concerns she had heard from other women in the Washington office, said Corn, now 58, made “rape jokes,” “regularly gave [several women] unwelcome shoulder rubs and engaged in uninvited touching of their legs, arms, backs, and waists,” and “made inappropriate comments about women’s sexuality and anatomy.” The other email, from 2014, was by a former female staffer who claimed that Corn “came up behind me and put his hands and arms around my body in a way that felt sexual and domineering.”_​


Good ol' Ma Jones, the pride of Progs here & everywhere...

Hollywood actors speak of 'rampant' problem of male abusers targeting men



> Hollywood has a “rampant” and “pervasive” problem of men sexually abusing boys and young men, according to actors and lawyers who are speaking up about misconduct and harassment in the wake of an allegation against actor Kevin Spacey.
> 
> “It’s a very taboo subject,” said Alex Winter, an actor and director who said he was sexually abused as a pre-teen child actor. “I don’t know of any boys in any pocket of the entertainment industry that do not encounter some form of predatory behavior. … It’s really not a safe environment.”


----------



## eMacMan

For those who like letting cartoons to do their talking, this one really hits the mark.
https://grrrgraphics.com/ships-deserting-sinking-rat/

Explore some of his other work while your there.


----------



## FeXL

Happy Anniversary, Bill's Wife. :clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## FeXL

How saweet it is...

The List: 'Scream Helplessly at the Sky' Event Happening in 25 Cities on Wednesday



> Reminder: Unhinged libs are still planning to express their impotent rage at the results of the 2016 election with "Scream Helplessly at the Sky" gatherings in over two dozen cities on Wednesday. In most locations, anguished snowflakes will start screeching during the early evening hours.


Thought I heard a howly dawg early this morning, baying at the moon. Maybe it was just a Prog. Hmmm...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Happy Anniversary, Bill's Wife. :clap::lmao::clap:


You know how kids in the schoolyard will pull a girl's hair, do other silly things to engage, all because they're unable to express their fondness for her?

FeXL's obsession with Hillary seems a lot like that....

:yikes:


----------



## FeXL

My _obsession_ with her (your words, not mine) lies wholly in the fact that she will never be President of the United States.

This is a Good Thing.

And, I don't know where you went to school but when I wanted to express my fondness for a girl, I didn't need to engage in either physical abuse or basic stupidity. Telegraphing much, CM?

Yikes, indeed...



CubaMark said:


> You know how kids in the schoolyard will pull a girl's hair, do other silly things to engage, all because they're unable to express their fondness for her?
> 
> FeXL's obsession with Hillary seems a lot like that....
> 
> :yikes:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:

What is really sad/tragic is that he is the president of the United States.


----------



## SINC

Never saw a tweet with a hand printed text. Fake much?


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Never saw a tweet with a hand printed text. Fake much?


The handwritten text is artistic license, making comment on the childishness of the current Commander-in-Chief (scary words, those).

But the content? Pure Trump. No word of a lie... XX)  :yikes:

*Trump trades 'short and fat' barb with N Korea's Kim*


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> The handwritten text is artistic license, making comment on the childishness of the current Commander-in-Chief (scary words, those).
> 
> But the content? Pure Trump. No word of a lie... XX)  :yikes:
> 
> *Trump trades 'short and fat' barb with N Korea's Kim*


Huh?

It's like photo shopping a real news photo. Taints the message and implies bias, something we were taught never to do.

Trump and his methods are something else for sure, but he is shrewd at some things. Might this be one?


----------



## Macfury

I am grateful every day that Hillary was not elected. And Trump's economy is faring far better than Obama's ever did.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I am greatful every day that Hillary was not elected. And Trump's economy is faring far better than Obama's ever did.


No argument, nor should there be, on either viewpoint. Hillary was rejected and rightly so. Her corruption is absolute.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> The handwritten text is artistic license, making comment on the childishness of the current Commander-in-Chief (scary words, those).
> 
> 
> 
> But the content? Pure Trump. No word of a lie... XX)  :yikes:
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump trades 'short and fat' barb with N Korea's Kim*



It's tough when you have to explain comedy. But with Trump, there's no shortage of new material.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> It's like photo shopping a real news photo. Taints the message and implies bias, something we were taught never to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and his methods are something else for sure, but he is shrewd at some things. Might this be one?



You said 'taint.'


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> :lmao::clap::lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> What is really sad/tragic is that he is the president of the United States.




Indeed, amigo. It's one year later and I'm still doing a double take.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed, amigo. It's one year later and I'm still doing a double take.


And you think Notley is doing a pretty good job. 'Nuf said.


----------



## CubaMark

(Pearls before Swine)​


----------



## FeXL

If you have to explain your comedy, maybe, just _maybe_, it wasn't that funny in the first place...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's tough when you have to explain comedy.


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> (Pearls before Swine)​


:lmao::clap::lmao: Not going to happen, but it was a funny cartoon.


----------



## Rps

A point if I may? I am not a fan of The Donald, but the U.S. seems to be running quite well at the moment. The singular reason for this, I believe, is that the current president has done absolutely nothing....... you know sometimes that might just be the best way to govern.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> A point if I may? I am not a fan of The Donald, but the U.S. seems to be running quite well at the moment. The singular reason for this, I believe, is that the current president has done absolutely nothing....... you know sometimes that might just be the best way to govern.


In fact, a lot of his executive orders have revoked much of Obama's rigorous regulation of the American people. That's also helped.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> If you have to explain your comedy, maybe, just _maybe_, it wasn't that funny in the first place...


Like that RAT comic. It telegraphs its punch line with incredible clumsiness.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> A point if I may? I am not a fan of The Donald, but the U.S. seems to be running quite well at the moment. The singular reason for this, I believe, is that the current president has done absolutely nothing....... you know sometimes that might just be the best way to govern.


As with many matters at the macro level, the effects of what Trump has done will be felt down the road, particularly in the environment and in the social repercussions of damage to health care and social services.

....down the road, of course, meaning when a Democrat is in office, and the Republicans will lambast that person for "failed policies".


----------



## Macfury

Snowflake damage!


----------



## CubaMark

*Andrew Cohen* (@JustADCohen) 11 Nov 2017


----------



## Macfury

Cohen is behind the times. Trump specifically says that Putin is wrong--he just believes that there was no collusion.


----------



## CubaMark

You must have some kinda new-fangled Trump Filter installed, MF. Because nobody else on this planet can make heads or tales of what the Orange Buffoon-in-Chief is saying.

For example:

[ame]https://youtu.be/1ZAPwfrtAFY?t=200[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

I wouldn't expect that Brit snowflake to have any comprehension at all! Such a dour, confused Democrat!


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk about the pride of the left, Hollywood & the Progressive media rapists & sexual assaulters, s'more!

'Fear is everywhere': a quiet paranoia haunts post-Weinstein Hollywood



> Week five of the great reckoning and Hollywood is frightened and lost, drifting deeper into uncharted waters with no script, no direction and no sense how it will end.
> 
> Scandal was always part of the entertainment industry, a ritualised process of rumours, denials and hush money, publicists and fixers, banishment and redemption.
> 
> But the vortex of sexual abuse allegations which started with Harvey Weinstein spins ever faster, whirling beyond control of the studios.


The only reason you'd be paranoid is if you were guilty in the first place...

'All predators will go down': As veil of silence falls, Weinstein effect keeps growing



> In the three weeks since the string of allegations against Harvey Weinstein first began, an ongoing domino effect has tumbled through not just Hollywood but at least a dozen other industries. It’s open season on open secrets.
> 
> Nearly every day has brought new allegations of sexual harassment, assault or misconduct, and subsequent firings, dismissals or the distancing of men in various stations of power, from highly regarded media pundits to celebrity chefs.


Charlie Sheen 'categorically denies' raping 13-year-old Corey Haim on the set of the movie Lucas after claims made by a friend of the late child-actor



> * New allegations have emerged about a 13-year-old Corey Haim being raped by Charlie Sheen while filming the 1986 movie 'Lucas'
> * Former actor Dominick Brascia alleges that Haim told him about his incident with Sheen and that a 19-year-old Sheen rejected him after their encounter
> * Corey Feldman, Haim's closest friend, wrote in his memoir about Haim being sodomized on the set of 'Lucas' but never named Sheen
> * Additionally it is alleged Sheen kissed an underage woman, who was 17 at the time, on the set of 'Lucas' and propositioned her for sex as well
> * A defiant looking Sheen emerged from his parents home Wednesday smoking a cigarette after the bombshell allegations were made public
> * Wednesday afternoon Sheen, who is now living with HIV, released a statement saying he 'categorically denies these allegations'
> * Haim battled drug addiction for years and died in 2010 at 38-years-old


Elite Media Harassment Scandal Expands After NPR Chief Is Accused of Covering Up Complaints



> The left-wing Washington Post reports that NPR “leaders were aware of at least four complaints against” Michael Oreskes, NPR’s top editor, prior to his resignation last week after two allegations went public. With charges of a cover-up floating about, NPR chief Jarl Mohn has taken a four-week leave for what he says are medical reasons.


Elite Media Scandal Widens: 4 Guardian Staffers Under Investigation for Misconduct



> BuzzFeed News reports that the Guardian, a left-wing news outlet, currently has four staffers under investigation for everything from sexual harassment to groping. Included in the group is Ian Prior, a senior editor in charge of the Guardian’s digital verticals.
> 
> Two unnamed male reporters are also under investigation, which means all three join Matt Sullivan, the Guardian’s deputy U.S. editor, who is currently dealing with a complaint (he denies) of groping. “He’s alleged to have put his hand underneath a female employee’s shirt, on her torso and abdomen, and in the back pockets of her jeans,” BuzzFeed reports.


George Takei Accused of Sexually Assaulting Former Model in 1981



> A former model and actor is accusing Star Trek icon George Takei of sexual assault in 1981. The accuser, Scott R. Brunton, who was 23 at the time of the alleged incident, claims that Takei took advantage of him when he was most vulnerable.


George Takei blamed Russian bots for spreading a sexual misconduct claim against him



> Actor George Takei has suggested Russian bots are helping spread a sexual misconduct accusation against him.


What is it with the left & the Russkies?

Caution: Link to The Paper Of Record enclosed.

THE NY TIMES RUNS ITS LOUIS C.K. STORY, HEADLINED, “Louis C.K. Crossed a Line Into Sexual Misconduct, 5 Women Say:”



> _In 2002, a Chicago comedy duo, Dana Min Goodman and Julia Wolov, landed their big break: a chance to perform at the U.S. Comedy Arts Festival in Aspen, Colo. When Louis C.K. invited them to hang out in his hotel room for a nightcap after their late-night show, they did not think twice. The bars were closed and they wanted to celebrate. He was a comedian they admired. The women would be together. His intentions seemed collegial.
> 
> As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said.
> 
> They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.”_​


EXCLUSIVE: LAPD confirms they are investigating Hollywood pedophile ring after Corey Feldman files formal report



> Corey Feldman announced on twitter that he formally filed a police report with the LAPD about being molested as a minor
> 'THE LAPD WILL BEGIN AN OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION NOW! THINGS R HEATING UP, IM PRAYING 4 SAFETY!' said Feldman
> The LAPD confirmed that they were investigating Feldman's claims to DailyMail.com on Tuesday


Writer accuses Richard Dreyfuss of exposing himself and harassing her in the 80s - just days after the actor supported his son who accused Kevin Spacey of groping him



> * Writer Jessica Teich, 58, came forward Friday with sexual harassment allegations
> * Says actor Richard Dreyfuss, 70, hounded and harassed her at work in the 1980s
> * Claims he invited her to his trailer and surprised her by displaying his erect penis
> * Dreyfuss denies the exposure claim, admits he 'flirted' and acted like an 'a**hole'
> * His son Harry Dreyfuss made his own allegation against Kevin Spacey this week


Who Else Helped Hide Harvey Weinstein? Entertainment Journalists



> Hollywood has been shaken by the public revelation that studio mogul Harvey Weinstein has been a serial sexual predator for decades. All manner of reaction has poured out of Dream Land, much of it negative and full of appropriate condemnation. One other common refrain, however, is far more revealing: many report Weinstein’s sexual attacks are well known, the entertainment industry’s open secret.
> 
> This is an amazing stance, given Hollywood’s desire to lecture us about societal comportment at any opportunity. If it was so well known, why did no one stop him? Complicity with Weinstein’s attacks is built into the industry. The power he wielded, and the professional largesse he could deliver, gave him power to dodge legal responsibility; and those rare times when trouble did erupt were quelled by throwing money and lawyers at the problem.
> 
> As much as the performers and producers were accessories to this behavior, another part of the industry is also guilty of inaction: The journalists who cover Hollywood.


And this somewhat dated summary:

Hollywood’s Accused Harassers, Molesters, Rapists – The Rap Sheet, 79 So Far



> As the Harvey Weinstein scandal spreads like an STD throughout the entertainment industry worldwide, as the courage of those coming forward to name names inspires similar courage in others, we cannot allow ourselves to become so accustomed to the allegations that they lose their power to outrage.
> 
> Although some male victims have come forward, the alleged victims here are mostly vulnerable young women and children. Worse, so far, all of the alleged abusers are the very men whose primary responsibility in any civilized society is to protect women and children.
> 
> As a means to understand just how, yes, institutional these allegations are, here is a list (in no particular order) of the accused and their alleged misdeeds, which will be updated as needed.


----------



## wonderings

I am not sure I get the Louis CK one. Not a fan of him or his humour, but it just sounds consensual, albeit creepy. He asked, they said ok or declined. Where is the crime here?


----------



## FeXL

Close enough for gov't work.

The TSA is a pathetic failure



> Other than wanting to grab a backpack and stuff it with ice, a glass, and two $18 bottles of Crémant d'Alsace and book an economy flight to somewhere warm, it's hard to know how to react to the not exactly astonishing news that the TSA continues to be really bad at its job.
> 
> How bad? According to ABC News, in a series of recent tests in which undercover agents attempted to smuggle guns, knives, bombs, and goodness knows what other contraband materials into the "secure" areas of various airports, *the agency failed around 80 percent of the time.* Probably bureaucratic flunkies will interpret this as a welcome sign of improvement, as it no doubt is better than the 95 percent rate reported a few years ago. The rest of us are just smiling blandly with our shoes off and our belts draped over our shoulders while our 2-year-olds run away with our half-open laptop cases in the direction of the body-scan machines. Please don't shoot!


My bold.

Funny, but sad. Read the whole thing.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hey, let's talk about the pride of the left, Hollywood & the Progressive media rapists & sexual assaulters, s'more!


heh... like there are no right-wingers in Hollywood... funny guy.

You do seem to obsess about things. It's wonderful that so many of these arseholes are getting their come-uppance. But if you think only "lefties" have a history of criminal sexual behaviour, well... there's a bridge spanning Halifax harbour I get get for you, for a song.... Shall we make a list of right-wing politicians, pastors, etc., who've embarrassed themselves (at best) or committed sexual assault (at worst)?

Meanwhile, this well-known Democrat is curiously not sitting behind bars. A Republican who broke with the party over their lack of support for LGBYTQ rights and went over to the Democracts (talk about a single-issue politician!), "Buck" should be on his way to the slammer... 

*The Curious Case of the Black Male Escort Found Dead Inside a Wealthy Democratic Donor’s Home*










On July 27, 2016, 26-year-old Gemmel Moore was found in the bathroom of a West Hollywood, Calif., apartment belonging to Ed Buck. Moore was young, black and poor. Buck was 62 years old, white, wealthy and powerful.

That’s all we know.

Moore’s family is searching for answers. Buck has not spoken publicly about the incident. Police have not charged anyone with a crime, even though multiple reports have surfaced that Buck had a predilection for black male prostitutes.

Even after a number of young, black, male sex workers have stepped forward with apparent photographic evidence that Buck was one of their clients. Even after each one of those men separately all tell the same story: Not only did Ed Buck have a fetish for black men, he was known in West Hollywood’s gay community as paying top dollar for the company with 20-something black escorts ...

But only after injecting them with drugs.

* * *​
In 1987, Buck, described by the Arizona Republic in the same article as a “millionaire, self-acknowledged homosexual and registered Republican,” launched himself into politics by leading an effort to impeach Arizona Gov. Evan Mecham.

Even though Buck’s campaign led to the successful impeachment of the governor, Buck left the Republican Party due to its intolerant stance on LGBTQ issues. According to the profile in WeHoville, in addition, after arrests on narcotics and public indecency charges, Buck eventually left Arizona and moved to West Hollywood.

* * *

*“If there was ever anybody in West Hollywood whose bed 
you expected a dead body to turn up in, it was Ed Buck.”*​—former West Hollywood Mayor Steve Martin​
(The Root)​


----------



## Macfury

They thought it was part of the act--they didn't think he was going to masturbate in front of them. So consent to go to his dressing room, but no consent to the rest. 



wonderings said:


> I am not sure I get the Louis CK one. Not a fan of him or his humour, but it just sounds consensual, albeit creepy. He asked, they said ok or declined. Where is the crime here?


----------



## FeXL

Tell ya what, CM. Let's go tit for tat, as it were.

You find a list of 79 right-wing actors who are being accused of committing sexual assault or rape.

That'll be a start.



CubaMark said:


> Shall we make a list of right-wing politicians, pastors, etc., who've embarrassed themselves (at best) or committed sexual assault (at worst)?


----------



## eMacMan

Looks like taking your laptop, cellphone or camera with you on vacation may become a thing of the past. Congress has as yet to pass on any flimsy reason to attack personal liberty and I doubt this will be the exception.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/camera-battery-explosion-orlando-airport-155617356.html



> Travelers at the Orlando International Airport flew into a panicked frenzy after a camera's battery exploded at a terminal security checkpoint.
> 
> The lithium-ion battery inside a passenger’s backpack was mistaken for a bomb when it began smoking and making a popping noise at about 5 p.m. Friday evening.
> 
> 
> “Some witnesses panicked and self-evacuated the area,” Greater Orlando Aviation Authority CEO Phil Brown said in a statement. “Others […] mistook the sounds as gunfire and within seconds, a spontaneous evacuation of the main terminal occurred.”


----------



## FeXL

So, apparently Mattel has just created a hijab wearing Barbie.

Questions, questions...



> Dear @Mattel - respectfully, does the Shero doll have her labia and clitorus intact?


Jes' askin'...


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> They thought it was part of the act--they didn't think he was going to masturbate in front of them. So consent to go to his dressing room, but no consent to the rest.


Still does not seem like a crime to me. He asked, they said yes, whether they thought it was an act or not he was not acting. They could have (not sure if they did) left and gone about their day with a weird story about a celebrity. From what I have read he had not tried to force anyone, detain anyone, or anything like it. I would say indecent exposure maybe, but again he asked and they said yes. A dangerous precedent to set if we now need to know if someone is kidding or not.


----------



## FeXL

I'd like to see this happen.

Report: FBI May Be Investigating Planned Parenthood Over Dealings In Aborted Fetuses



> The FBI signaled this week agents may be investigating whether Planned Parenthood’s dealings in fetal tissue were legal.
> 
> Sources told The Hill the FBI has requested documents from the Senate Judiciary Committee obtained from the committee’s investigation into Planned Parenthood’s fetal tissue dealings. The investigation came after the Center for Medical Progress published a series of explosive videos in 2015 revealing the abortion giant was harvesting and distributing aborted baby parts for researchers.
> 
> CMP alleges Planned Parenthood was illegally profiting from the exchange of limbs and organs, and the House and Senate launched investigations into the non-profit’s practice. Senate Judiciary Chair Chuck Grassley referred Planned Parenthood to the FBI at the conclusion of that investigation, saying his committee found evidence indicating the group was profiting.


----------



## FeXL

U.S. Granted Visas to At Least Five Accused Terrorists



> The U.S. government granted visas to and resettled in America at least five foreign individuals who were later tied to terrorism, according to the White House, which announced that "hundreds of other foreign nationals" admitted to the country are currently under investigation for terror ties.
> 
> Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov, an Uzbek national alleged of committing recent deadly terror attacks in New York City, is just one of several terror-tied foreign nationals who were permitted to resettle in the U.S. as part of the Visa Lottery, which randomly awards green cards to foreigners.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

In _The Atlantic_???

Shocka... :yikes:

Bill Clinton: A Reckoning



> The Democratic Party needs to make its own reckoning of the way it protected Bill Clinton. The party needs to come to terms with the fact that it was so enraptured by their brilliant, Big Dog president and his stunning string of progressive accomplishments that it abandoned some of its central principles. The party was on the wrong side of history, and there are consequences for that. Yet expedience is not the only reason to make this public accounting. If it is possible for politics and moral behavior to coexist, then this grave wrong needs to be acknowledged. If Weinstein and Mark Halperin and Louis C. K. and all the rest can be held accountable, so can our former president and so can his party, which so many Americans so desperately need to rise again.


----------



## Macfury

Indecent exposure seems just about right.



wonderings said:


> Still does not seem like a crime to me. He asked, they said yes, whether they thought it was an act or not he was not acting. They could have (not sure if they did) left and gone about their day with a weird story about a celebrity. From what I have read he had not tried to force anyone, detain anyone, or anything like it. I would say indecent exposure maybe, but again he asked and they said yes. A dangerous precedent to set if we now need to know if someone is kidding or not.


----------



## FeXL

Not a surprise to anybody paying attention.

Latest hate crime stats show African-Americans more likely than whites to commit hate crimes



> _If African-Americans and whites committed hate crimes at the same rate, you would have expected Whites to commit five times as many hate crimes as African-Americans, and three quarters of all hate crimes would be attributed to white offenders. In reality, when you adjust for population, you find that *African-Americans are about 3.2 times more likely to commit a hate crime than a white.*_​


M'bold.

Another Prog narrative hits the waste bin...

Related:

Systemic racism is so rare in America, the media just can't stop lying about it



> Reports of racially motivated incidents at the Air Force Academy and near a university campus in Manhattan, Kansas were found to be fakes after thorough investigation.
> 
> That leads me to make several elephant-in-the-room observations.
> 
> First: the media love stories of race so much that they sprint to unfurl the “breaking news” banner before knowing the facts. It seems facts don’t matter, or more precisely, facts are inconvenient if they can use the story as a political bludgeon to smear all conservatives and Republicans as racists.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

If I saw a wall like that, I would try to get into the US first.


----------



## Macfury

And creepy Senator Al Franken joins the pack of abusers. Can't deny groping a sleeping woman when you have a photo taken of it as a souvenir:

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/


----------



## 18m2

I have a hard time understanding the rational for repealing the ban on importing elephant trophies by these stupid American politicians. 

US to lift ban on elephant hunting trophy imports - BBC News


----------



## Macfury

I agree. It's a misguided effort to help hunting-funded conservation programs, but it stinks.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And creepy Senator Al Franken joins the pack of abusers. Can't deny groping a sleeping woman when you have a photo taken of it as a souvenir:


Further:

Al Franken Is a Big Fat Sex Criminal

Melanie Morgan: I Was Also Stalked and Harassed by Al Franken; I'll Give Details Soon

Media Actually Rushing to Al Franken's Defense

BUT TRUMP SAID PUSSY!!!!!


----------



## FeXL

More on the above & the compassionate, intellectual, left.

Washington Post Offers Totally Unexpected and Novel Hot Take: Al Franken's Sins are Just One Man's Failings, But Republican Sins Are Borne By Each and Every Member of the Party



> We've seen this Narrative too many times to count. When Cold Cash Jefferson was found with a load of bribe money in his fridge, that didn't get much coverage, and the coverage it got just made it about Cold Cash Jefferson himself.
> 
> But when Jack Abramoff was found donating to Republicans, that was a Culture of Corruption that applied to the entire GOP. In fact, even though one of the biggest beneficiaries of Abramoff's donations was _Democrat Majority Leader Harry Reid_, Reid was simply edited out of the stories to make the Narrative stick.
> 
> And now we have Franken forcibly sticking his tongue town and unwilling woman's throat -- alleged -- and groping her sleeping body in a sexually humiliating way (proven and then admitted).
> 
> But see Democrats just have a _single_ "issue," whereas Republicans have an "enduring problem."


Of course...


----------



## FeXL

Here’s The FBI Informant Who Says He Has Evidence On the Uranium One Deal



> The FBI confidential informant who went undercover to look into Hillary Clinton’s role in an Obama administration-era uranium company was identified Thursday.
> 
> William Campbell, a Russian lobbyist, is the informant, according to Reuters. He will be testifying before a congressional committee about the 2010 sale of Uranium One, where a Russian-backed company bought a uranium firm with mines in the U.S. Campbell gave information to the FBI about what he saw while undercover as an informant.


:clap::clap::clap:

Bring it.


----------



## CubaMark

_*So, this happened....*_


----------



## Macfury

What happened? Someone tweeted?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What happened? Someone tweeted?


Brutal...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Brutal...


Game changer.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Game changer.


I can see the headlines now:

" ".


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk s'more about lefty sexual predators. You know, the natural ruling class, the darlings of feminism, the human rights pursuers, the SJW's. Trustworthy, to a fault.

<where's that technicolour vomiting emoticon when you need it...>

Feminist: Franken Shouldn’t Resign Because He’s A Dem



> Feminist writer Kate Harding wrote in the Washington Post that she doesn’t think Sen. Al Franken should resign over sexual assault allegations because he is a Democrat.
> 
> Harding, the author of “Nasty Women: Feminism, Resistance, and Revolution in Trump’s America” admitted that having Democratic abusers resign would be harmful to her own political goals, and thus those sexual assaulters and harassers should be forgiven.


More:



> *She argues that there are probably other Democrats who have committed sexual misconduct*, so “if we set this precedent in the interest of demonstrating our party’s solidarity with harassed and abused women, we’re only going to drain the swamp of people who, however flawed, still regularly vote to protect women’s rights and freedoms.”


M'bold.

PROBABLY??? :yikes:



> Ohio State Supreme Court Justice and Current Candidate for Governor Speaks Up for All Franken, Saying "I've F***ed 50 Women"





> Ohio Supreme Court Justice Bill O'Neill, a Democratic candidate for governor, apparently trying to head off any criticisms from his opponents, revealed what he says are his sexual escapades over the years on a Facebook post.
> 
> A post on O'Neill's official Facebook said he was speaking up "on behalf of all heterosexual males" after allegations against Democratic U.S. Sen. Al Franken came to light Thursday. O'Neill, a Chagrin Falls native, said he had been "sexually intimate" with "approximately 50 very attractive females."


I'm so glad that a SCJ is equating what is likely consensual sex with a number of women to another's sexual assault. Makes ya wonder what other kind of twisted & warped decisions he's made in his life, both personally & professionally.

Chairman of Florida Democrat Party Resigns Over Charges of Making Women Feel "Uncomfortable"



> Six former Florida Democratic Party staffers and consultants say that current party Chairman Stephen Bittel has created an unprofessional workplace environment for women that includes persistent inappropriate comments, leering at young women and even inviting them on his private jet.
> 
> The women, who were reached independently by POLITICO and insisted on anonymity out of fear for their jobs, said Bittel never inappropriately touched or threatened them. But he made them feel so uneasy that they didn't want to be alone with him due to his body language, suggestive remarks and even the breast-shaped stress squeeze-ball he has been known to keep on his desk.


----------



## Beej

The U.S. is in the middle of a tax debate, and I found some odd things to highlight in their twisted "left vs right" or "rich vs poor" debate.

State and municipal taxes are deductible for the purposes of federal incomes taxes.
Their top marginal tax rate is just over 39% (federal).
The large corporation tax rate is 35% (with numerous deductions).
They have an estate tax (but not deemed disposition?).
Mortgage interest is deductible up to a limit, although there are tricks to do something similar in Canada. 

Based on U.S. politics, Canada has a "far right wing" or "pro-rich" approach to federal taxes. Or, more likely, the debate is BS. As with immigration, it is not a left/right thing, and they should copy us on this topic.

If I've made a mistake, please let me know.


----------



## FeXL

HATERS!!!

Muslim College Basketball Player Tossed Off Team for Disrespecting Anthem



> A college basketball player who is Muslim was kicked off the team because he kept taking practice shots on the court while everyone else stood at attention for the national anthem.
> 
> Rasool Samir has filed a First Amendment complaint with the ACLU, which states his religion, Islam, forbids acts of reverence other than to their god, Allah. The incident occurred on November 1 at Garden City Community College (GCCC) in Kansas. Samir’s teammates exited the court and stood on the sidelines while the anthem played. Samir stayed on the court and continued warming up. When the anthem was over, a booster for the school confronted Samir and it turned physical. The two were separated by security. As The Blaze reports, the coach took the player to the locker room and advised him to head back to his dorm. Samir was later told he was off the team and a plane ticket was purchased for him to go home to Philadelphia.


Juthdin would have his chequebook out in a minute...


----------



## FeXL

Yep.

Steve Bannon on Illegal Immigration at Remembrance Project: ‘Globalist Corporations Want Cheap Labor, Left Wants Cheap Votes’



> During a speech at a conference by the Remembrance Project, an organization made up of the American families who have lost loved ones at the hands of illegal alien criminals, Bannon noted how the country’s elites actually profit from a constant flow of illegal aliens.
> 
> “We could stay up here all weekend and do this,” Bannon said after reading off a list of Americans who have been murdered by illegal aliens. “And each of [the victims’ stories] is heart-rendering. But what gets me is what about [the American victims’] dreams? Why are illegal aliens called DREAMers and not [the victims]?”
> 
> “And by the way, this just doesn’t happen,” Bannon said of illegal immigration. “This is not some random law of the universe… this is not physics, okay. This is an act of commission. The elites in this country, the economic, political, and the media elites allow this to happen because they want it to happen.”
> 
> “The multinational, globalist corporations want cheap labor, and the progressive Left wants cheap votes,” Bannon said. “This is not a conspiracy. And you are not wing-nuts. This is in broad daylight. And if sites like Breitbart and someone like Donald J. Trump had not given you a voice, it’d be totally hidden.”


----------



## FeXL

Of course. Why wouldn't one swamp thing back another?

Hillary comes to defense of ‘accountable’ Al Franken



> Hillary Clinton came to Sen. Al Franken’s defense on Friday during an interview for her new book, saying he should be praised for his “accountability” and willingness to apologize.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's Legacy.

Obama’s EPA Spent $690,000 on Parking Spots No One Used



> The Environmental Protection Agency spent nearly $700,000 for parking spots that no one used during the final two years of the Obama administration.
> 
> The office of inspector general released an audit Wednesday finding the agency wasted taxpayer dollars on subsidized parking for employees at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.
> 
> "Only EPA headquarters (based in Washington, D.C.) and Region 4 (based in Atlanta, Georgia) subsidized employee parking," the inspector general said. "These offices paid over $840,000 to subsidize employee parking from January 1, 2015, through December 31, 2016."
> 
> "In this time period, none of the other EPA regional offices provided their employees with subsidized parking, which is not a required employee benefit," the inspector general added.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Of course. Why wouldn't one swamp thing back another?
> 
> Hillary comes to defense of ‘accountable’ Al Franken


Al came clean... "like, with a cloth."


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Yep.
> 
> Steve Bannon on Illegal Immigration at Remembrance Project: ‘Globalist Corporations Want Cheap Labor, Left Wants Cheap Votes’


Sorry, the "analysis" of paranoid racists like Bannon hold little water.

The fact is, the modern devalued workforce is no longer a migrant one; through the imposition of export processing zones and the like, which is a virtual export of cheap labour, the worker never actually leaves their home country. 

And in the context of Latin American / Mexican workers who do go North to the USA (a trend which has been net-negative in the past eight years), those workers are undocumented are not citizens, and cannot vote in any case.

Much bluster about nothing.


----------



## Macfury

The article said both legal and illegal immigration. But why don't you tell me why large corporations are pushing for increased immigration?


----------



## FeXL

Your naivete is so...precious.

Democrats Benefit From Illegal Immigrant Voting

Supreme Court: States Cannot Prevent Illegal Aliens from Voting in U.S. Elections

Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections

Illegal immigrants get OK to vote in Maryland city's elections

Supreme Court rules in redistricting case: Illegal immigrants can be counted

Or is it merely wilful ignorance? XX)



CubaMark said:


> ...those workers are undocumented are not citizens, and cannot vote in any case.


----------



## FeXL

Suffer The Little Children



> Every Democrat Presidential Candidate in 25 Years Had Pedophile Ties


The link in the first cartoon panel goes here.

Excellent read.

Related:

Bill Clinton, the Media, and Sexual Harassment Armageddon



> The allegations against Roy Moore, Harvey Weinstein, and now Al Franken, each more damning by the hour, have awakened the conscience of the media. As if on cue, thoughtful voices in the press have been reflecting on their own past sins. Our willingness to believe Moore’s accusers, the pundits say, stands in stark contrast to our treatment of the women who once accused Bill Clinton.


----------



## FeXL

Not enough by half.

NFL TV Partners Set To Lose Up To $500 Million On Ratings Decline



> As Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, and the NFL engage in an ugly internal fight over the future leadership of the NFL, TV partners at CBS, ESPN, Fox and NBC are staring at their own internal conflicts — namely a substantial decline in NFL ratings that is on pace to cost the four networks up to $500 million in lost revenue.
> 
> Already several hundred million in lost revenue has been booked in 2017 and it has the league’s top executives and television partners scrambling to figure out what went wrong. How did a league that was setting ratings records in 2015 suddenly see its audience fall by nearly 20% just two years later.


I don't think the author puts nearly enough emphasis on #4, The Protest.


----------



## Macfury

The NFL has been hijacked by progressives several years back. Whenever ratings flag, they double down on prog... and lose even more viewers.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The NFL has been hijacked by progressives several years back. Whenever ratings flag, they double down on prog... and lose even more viewers.


I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned, accelerating, downward Prog spiral.


----------



## FeXL

Good. You _shouldn't_ carry out an order for an illegal nuclear strike. Now, where has Trump said anything about conducting an illegal nuclear strike, doofi?

Top nuclear commander: I wouldn't carry out an 'illegal' nuclear strike order from Trump



> The top nuclear commander in the U.S. said Saturday he would refuse an order to conduct a nuclear strike from President Trump if he thought the launch was illegal.
> 
> Air Force Gen. John Hyten, commander of U.S. Strategic Command, said at the Halifax International Security Forum in Halifax, Nova Scotia, that he would tell Trump he couldn’t carry out an illegal strike, CBS News reported.


----------



## Macfury

Who would ask such a stupid question to begin with? And Hyten is an idiot for answering it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Who would ask such a stupid question to begin with?


Ummm...Progressive media?


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I see a Republican nomination in this kid's future!

Student Forced to Remove ‘Fake News’ Shirt During Field Trip to CNN



> A seventh grader in Georgia made the hilarious decision to wear a ‘fake news’ t-shirt on a field trip to CNN with his middle school. His teachers failed to see the humor and made him change his shirt.


You go, Jaxon! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Caution: Link inside to The Paper of Record. 

In hindsight...



> _"And what the Democrat Party did instead • turning their party into an accessory to Clinton’s appetites, shamelessly abandoning feminist principle, smearing victims and blithely ignoring his most credible accuser, all because *Republicans funded the investigations and they’re prudes and it’s all just Sexual McCarthyism* • feels in the cold clarity of hindsight like *a great act of partisan deformation*."_​


Links' bold.

Huh?!!! :yikes: When you've lost the _NYT_, they must want to be disassociated badly...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> I see a Republican nomination in this kid's future!
> 
> Student Forced to Remove ‘Fake News’ Shirt During Field Trip to CNN
> 
> 
> 
> You go, Jaxon! :lmao:


I do find it more than a bit alarming that teacher and principal both seem unable to read. Of course this is jaja so maybe that isn't too surprising.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> I do find it more than a bit alarming that teacher and principal both seem unable to read.


No argument.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Your naivete is so...precious.


And your lies are so... telling.

The Supreme Court did nothing of the sort. Anyone who takes a moment to read the article you linked can easily suss that out. One of the articles refers to regulations around redistricting, not at all to do with actual elections. Another talks about identification requirements, and non-citizens casting votes remains a felony offense.

The spin here is not at all sophisticated - it's blatant, and it's wrong.

And you are either being dishonest by repeating the lies knowing that the headlines are pure, unfounded clickbait, or you are dumb as a post. Which is it?

XX)


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> ... and non-citizens casting votes remains a felony offense.
> 
> The spin here is not at all sophisticated - it's blatant, and it's wrong....
> 
> XX)


Yep and I clearly recall BO on TV telling illegals that if they voted nothing would happen to them.

Now in my books that is literally the president of the US giving his blessing to millions of people should they commit a felony. 

Had you or I gone on TV and essentially urged millions to commit felonies we would be rotting in jail. Maybe we should apply the same tough standards to the puppets of the super-elite.


----------



## FeXL

Fukc you, CM. 

And the hat you're wearing.

And the horse you rode in on...



CubaMark said:


> ...your lies...


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Yep and I clearly recall BO on TV telling illegals that if they voted nothing would happen to them.


Source? Exact quote? That would be helpful to the discussion.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Fukc you, CM.
> 
> And the hat you're wearing.
> 
> And the horse you rode in on...


Oh, I'm sorry. Was I not supposed to point out that you lie habitually in this forum?

I understand how that would make you uncomfortable, possibly even embarrassed (is that possible for a sociopath?). I guess that kind of a foul-mouthed reaction is to be expected...

XX)


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Source? Exact quote? That would be helpful to the discussion.


A little hard to source an over the air speech, but I can assure you I did indeed see and hear it. That's first hand, not someone I've never met claiming he did it. He stopped just short of suggesting they should actually vote, but clearly assured them there would be no consequences if they did vote.


----------



## Macfury

Here you go:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Fukc you again, you prick.

I may not have conduced due diligence enough in my posts to satisfy you but if that is the sign of a liar I can point to whole threads where you have done worse, hypocrite.

I have never wilfully lied on these boards, neither by omission nor intentionally. Period.



CubaMark said:


> Was I not supposed to point out that you lie habitually in this forum?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Fukc you again, you prick.


Another great zinger from the paragon of decency here at ehMac. 



FeXL said:


> I may not have conduced due diligence enough in my posts to satisfy you...


Not me, pal. Reality.



FeXL said:


> ...but if that is the sign of a liar I can point to whole threads where you have done worse, hypocrite.


I'm interested in how you're going to qualify that... what metric you'll employ... But feel free. We can leave it to our fellow citizens here whether any errors I have made equate to, for example, your rabid defence of despicable sources to paint a depressed suicidal pilot as a crazed jihadist, despite ample evidence presented to the contrary.



FeXL said:


> I have never wilfully lied on these boards, neither by omission nor intentionally. Period.


To not take you at your word would be to label you something undesirable, and I'm not going to do that. However, you have on multiple occasions refused to correct your slanders, allegations, mistruths, etc., even when those have clearly been shown to be incorrect. What should we call someone who cannot publicly admit that they were wrong? I've done so on the few occasions that a contrary position has been shown to be true.

Anyway. Not interested in revisiting this age-old pissing match with you. It's making this forum a very undesirable place to visit....


----------



## FeXL

Decency left the conversation the second you hit "Submit Reply", asshole.



CubaMark said:


> Another great zinger from the paragon of decency here at ehMac.


Hows about we can them CubaMark?



CubaMark said:


> What should we call someone who cannot publicly admit that they were wrong?


Here's a few hunnert you missed:
Alternative Energy Sources? 
Electric Car = Bad Idea 
The Third Official, Authoritative GHG Thread 



CubaMark said:


> I've done so on the few occasions that a contrary position has been shown to be true.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Decency left the conversation the second you hit "Submit Reply", asshole.


Hey! A three-peat! Insulting in multiples. Going for bonus points, are you? 



FeXL said:


> Hows about we can them CubaMark?


....  .... 



FeXL said:


> Here's a few hunnert you missed:
> Alternative Energy Sources?
> Electric Car = Bad Idea
> The Third Official, Authoritative GHG Thread


Sorry, not following. Looked at the links, don't know what you're on about. Is there a FeXL interpreter in the house? Is this like that Classic Trek epidode, "The Tholian Web", where Kirk keeps phasing in and out of this dimension, and no one can communicate with him? I'm thinking that's kinda like what's happening here*.

***_This statement should in no way imply an equivalence of character between FeXL and James Tiberius Kirk. Example for interdimensional confluence only._


----------



## CubaMark

*If the GOP tax plan is so good, why do they lie so much about it?*

[....]

At his confirmation hearing, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin made an unambiguous promise that there would be “no absolute tax cut for the upper class” in the Trump administration’s vision of tax reform.

Trump promised on September 13 that rich people wouldn’t benefit “at all” from his tax plan.

On July 26, he went further and suggested he wanted to raise taxes on the rich.

Back in May of 2016 as a candidate, he went on Meet the Press and backed tax increases on the rich. “For the wealthy, I think, frankly, it’s going to go up,” he said. “And you know what? It really should go up.”

One way Trump frequently likes to make this point is to cast himself as a selfless champion of the people, willing to raise his own taxes for the sake of the country. Trump went so far as to phone up a group of Senate Democrats to tell them, “My accountant called me and said, 'You're going to get killed in this bill.’”

This is all a bunch of lies. As Mark Murray writes for NBC News, “Trump and his heirs potentially could save more than $1 billion overall under the GOP tax proposal.”

Rather than own up to the reversal and defend it on the merits, Trump’s team is now engaging in bizarre deflections. When Andrea Murray asked Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney about why Trump flip-flopped on the question of whether tax reform should provide a windfall to the president, Mulvaney replied curtly, “I can’t speak to the president’s taxes. I think that was sort of litigated by the American public during the election.”

It was litigated. But the terms of the litigation were that Trump said he would release his tax returns in the future and Trump said he would put forth a tax cut bill that was bad for him, bad in general for the wealthy, and good in general for the middle class. If Mulvaney’s position is that voters should have realized Trump was lying, then that’s fair enough. But the fact is Trump lied about tax policy during the campaign, and his team is now covering for those lies with new lies.
(Vox)​


----------



## Macfury

The tax plan shouldn't raise taxes on anyone. It should cut spending and taxes simultaneously across the board. The only thing I love is reducing the write off for state taxes. But it's clear that Trump can't get support for a decent plan from either Democrats or Republicans... RINO McCain in particular.

Always amusing to read the collectivists at VOX though. The world through a collectivist unicorn lens.


----------



## FeXL

You're the only one...



CubaMark said:


> Sorry, not following.


----------



## FeXL

At first blush, this almost, _almost_, sounds genuine. Then you shake your head, realize it's Chris Matthews speaking & suddenly it all becomes clear.

Chris Matthews hits Obama-Clinton anti-white, 'Archie Bunker thing'



> Chris Matthews, the host of MSNBC’s “Hardball,” over the weekend hit the politics of former President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for belittling the little guy, who in turn reacted by voting for their opponents.


The SDA commenters nail it:



> This is an ardent Dem admitting that "water is wet" in public. The thing about stopped clocks is deadly accurate.
> 
> What's hilarious about Mr. Tingles is he STILL doesn't get it. He thinks this is about optics. He thinks they got the propaganda wrong. He doesn't understand that it is Socialism itself which is wrong.


And in reply to that:



> - Very, VERY bang-on - well said, Sir. When you think of it, he might just as well be saying "We were perfectly right to THINK that Deplorables are deplorable - because they really are, of course - only, we've gotta' stop SAYING IT OUT LOUD!!!"
> 
> One is left wondering whether the Lefties have learned the true lesson here; I suspect and hope that they haven't. It underscores the entire Hiliary Conundrum: "We've got it made! We've got the Press in our pocket, we've got the Mayors in our pocket,, we've got all the Unions in our pocket, we've got all the Big Corporate Donors in our pocket..."
> 
> " - What about the voters?"
> 
> " - SHUT UP! THEY don't MATTER!"


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's the sexually predatory left doing?

New York Times Suspends Glenn "Thumb Fedora" Thrush Over Sexual Misconduct Claims



> _The New York Times said on Monday that it was suspending Glenn Thrush, one of its most prominent reporters, after he was accused of sexually inappropriate behavior.
> 
> ...
> 
> "The behavior attributed to Glenn in this Vox story is very concerning and not in keeping with the standards and values of The New York Times," The Times said in a statement on Monday. "We intend to fully investigate and while we do, Glenn will be suspended."
> 
> The Times also said Mr. Thrush had said he planned to enter a substance abuse program and that the newspaper supported his decision._​


Related:

NYT's Glenn Thrush Suspended, Accused Of Sexually Harassing Young Journalists



> Sexual harassment claims against yet another powerful man in media inspired New York Times White House correspondent Glenn Thrush to post an impassioned note on his Facebook page in October, calling on his fellow journalists to stand by women entering the field.
> 
> In the post, which linked to an article about the latest accusations against political journalist Mark Halperin, Thrush wrote, *“Young people who come into a newsroom deserve to be taught our trade, given our support and enlisted in our calling — not betrayed by little men who believe they are bigger than the mission.”*


M'bold.

The iron...

Angry Partisan Thumb: Bill Clinton's 1978 Rape of Juantia Broadderick Was "Empowered" by the Republicans' Defense of Clarence Thomas Thirteen Years Later in 1991



> According to Dowd, the only reason Justice Thomas was confirmed to sit on the court was that of tribal politics. "I think until we take off our jersey and say some things are not about our Jersey. Some things are not about the tribe that we're in," he pontificated. "We saw this in '91, then the Republicans gave up their values in order to get Justice Thomas on the court."
> 
> "They basically called Anita Hill a nut and a liar in order to get Justice Thomas on the court. They empowered Bill Clinton," he continued to proclaim, devoid of any facts or reason. "But in order to get those things, they decided the ends justify the means. They decided that a tainted person was better to get what they wanted."


Washington Post: Eight Women Accuse Charlie Rose of Having Sexually Harassed Them, With "Nudity," "Groping," and "Lewd Calls"



> The ages of the women range from 21 to 37, with alleged incidents dating from 1990-2011... Due to his stature in the industry, five of the eight women that spoke to the Post did so on the condition of anonymity.
> 
> The allegations from the multiple women have a variety of similarities. Five separate accusers described incidents in which Rose put his hand on their upper thigh in order to get a reaction. Two women claimed Rose emerged from a shower and walked around naked in front of them. One claimed that Rose groped her bottom at a staff party....


Charlie Rose Suspended by CBS, PBS and Bloomberg Amid Sexual Misconduct Claims



> In response to a _Washington Post_ report detailing multiple accusations of inappropriate conduct, PBS and Bloomberg on Monday afternoon announced that both companies will stop distributing Charlie Rose's eponymous show, _Charlie Rose_. The nightly show is produced by Rose's company, Charlie Rose Inc.


And, nothing like a little case of blackmail to CYA:

Harvey Weinstein had 'secret hitlist' of film industry figures to keep sex scandal from going public



> Harvey Weinstein had a secret “hitlist” of prominent individuals used to discover whether they knew about sexual misconduct claims against him, it has been claimed.
> 
> _The Observer_ says it obtained access to the list, which contains the names of almost 100 actors, publicists, producers, and former Weinstein Co. employees, whom he appeared to identify as part of a strategy to prevent his accusers from going public.
> 
> Compiled early in 2017 by Weinstein himself, those named in the list were apparently meant to be targeted by investigators he hired to accumulate information about whether they knew of the claims. This information was then reportedly ordered to be relayed back to Weinstein and his lawyers.
> 
> Among the most prominent names said to be on the list are Rose McGowan, who has accused Weinstein of raping her. The Observer says actress Laura Madden who, along with McGowan, was one of the first to speak out in public against Weinstein, is also on the list. Priority figures - ones Weinstein was most keen to target - were apparently coloured in red: McGowan and Madden’s names were both highlighted.


----------



## FeXL

Wonder how many Jewish synagoges and Mormon, Lutheran, United, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist churches they also attended, in addition to Buddhist temples, a visit to the local Scientologists, plus, _plus_, engaging in conversations with agnostics, atheists, Wiccans & Native Americans.

Among others, of course...

Tennessee: Nashville Middle School Students Visit Mosque for Religious Indoctrination



> On October 17th, students from Metro Nashville Meigs Middle Magnet School visited the Islamic Center of Nashville (ICN) where Dina Sirois, operations director of the mosque, told them that they would “talk about beliefs and practices in Islam.”


----------



## FeXL

Really? Whatever could they say that would set off a chains of events like that...

Lerner, Paz say they fear physical harm from enraged public, want IRS testimony sealed permanently



> Former IRS executive Lois G. Lerner told a federal court last week that members of her family, including “young children,” face death threats and a real risk of physical harm if her explanation of the tea party targeting scandal becomes public.
> Ms. Lerner and Holly Paz, her deputy at the IRS, filed documents in court Thursday saying tapes and transcripts of depositions they gave in a court case this year must remain sealed in perpetuity, or else they could spur an enraged public to retaliate.


So, not only did she not stop the targeting of tea party groups, but she did attempt to hide it.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, what the hell. How about another link about another pervy lefty?

John Conyers Paid $27,000 to Hush Sexual Harassment Claim; First Denies, Then Confirms Payout



> This demented old satyr first denied the payout, then, I guess, checked with his large team of Memory Helper Nurses, and admitted the payout, while denying all charges.
> 
> At Hot Air, it's reported that Buzzfeed says they also have proof that Conyers knew about this settlement all along, so he was straight-up lying in his first statement.
> 
> Except for maybe the dementia.


Yeah, funny that...


----------



## FeXL

I fail to see the problem.

This Taxpayer-Funded University Just Cut Sociology And A Bunch Of Other Useless Majors



> Officials at the University of Wisconsin-Superior announced the elimination of nine undergraduate majors, as well as 15 minors and one graduate program.
> 
> Sociology, theater, art history, journalism and something called media studies are among Wisconsin-Superior’s newly suspended academic majors, reports local ABC affiliate WDIO.


----------



## CubaMark

*Women Exit the Party of Trump*
_After laboring for years to close the gender gap, GOP strategists are suddenly facing a gender chasm._










[...]
Among its many electrifying aspects, the early Trump era has had a politically galvanizing effect on women. They are organizing in the streets and on social media, running for office in record numbers, training to enter future races, and volunteering on campaigns. And on November 7, they flocked to the polls to officially have their voices heard.

What they had to say more or less boiled down to: Things around here have got to change. Now. Which has many folks in the Republican Party reaching for the Xanax. 

By now, you’ve likely heard some of the Election Day stats and stories. In Virginia, women went from holding 17 seats in the House of Delegates to holding 27. Winners include Danica Roem, who became the state’s first transgender delegate-elect by beating an incumbent who bragged of being the state’s “chief homophobe.” In the gubernatorial contest, women favored Democrat Ralph Northam by 22 points—5 points more than Hillary Clinton’s margin among them last fall. Particularly concerning for Republicans: Fifty-eight percent of white college-educated women went for Northam vs. only 50 percent for Hillary.

** * **​
The situation, unsurprisingly, has many Republicans stressed out—even depressed. This is especially true among the women strategists, activists, and other leaders who’ve been laboring to address their party’s gender gap. In recent years, the GOP has struggled to combat its image as a pack of grumpy old white guys. Trump, to put it gently, has not been helpful in that regard. Worse still, the overheated, culture-warring nature of Trumpism has disrupted some of the most common avenues Republicans had been using to reach women. And worst of all: Not even the party players who focus on this issue seem to have any sense of where to go from here.

No one is suggesting that Trump is wholly to blame for his party’s lady problems.

The GOP’s relationship with women is “always challenging,” admitted former Representative Mary Bono. While the Democratic Party “takes women for granted,” said Bono, her party “doesn’t understand them.”

Julie Conway, executive director of the women-focused VIEW PAC, noted of her party’s efforts to engage women: “It wasn’t good before, and it’s not good now.”

** * **​
Unlike minority women, said Dittmar, pre-Trump, many white women “seemed to have been lulled into complacency and thought, ‘Things are OK for us.’ Now, they’ve had a reaction to see that, ‘Oh my gosh. The country is so much more discriminatory and voters are so much more misogynistic than we ever realized.’ That plays into the energy and has a galvanizing effect.”

** * **​
“Imagine if we had a female leader, how this could be handled,” said Card (who supported Carly Fiorina for president last cycle). “Instead, we do have the polar opposite. We do have a man who said he could grab women by the pussy. We can’t have presidential leadership on the sexual harassment issue because of that.”

(No question, Trump is a problematic ambassador for the cause. Greenberg recently conducted a national poll asking voters, “Do you believe that Donald Trump sexually harassed women, or not?” Sixty-eight percent said yes.)

** * **​
Beeson pointed to Steve Bannon’s championing of the alt-right and the allegations of sexual misconduct against Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore. “There does appear to be some group of Republicans who take the attitude of whatever it takes to elect Republicans and stop Democrats will do, even if that means supporting a pederast or a white supremacist,”...

** * **​
...how then can the GOP avoid further erosion of support from women?

No one seems to have a clue.

“I don’t know what to do,” said the strategist. “I’ve been wracking my brains.”

** * **​
Conway is actually discouraging some women from running for Congress in what currently looks to be an unfriendly 2018. “I’ve said, ‘Keep your powder dry. I don’t want you to have a terrible experience where there’s no mathematical way I can see a path to victory.’” As much as she wants women’s voices in the debate, Conway said, “I don’t want to put her out there to be destroyed and never want to do it again.”

No one I spoke with expressed much hope of making a dent in the gender gap any time soon. “I only have 22 Republican women in the House,” said Conway. Soon she’ll be “down five, with three running for other offices and two retiring. And that doesn’t count if Martha McSally runs for the Senate. Without any other retirements, this puts us down to World War Two numbers—which is horrible.”
(The Atlantic)​


----------



## Macfury

That's a pretty hilarious take on the situation, CM. Could have come from _Vox_ as easily as _The Atlantic_. Women will flock to the party of Bill and Hillary Clinton, John Conyers and Al Franken because it respects women!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That's a pretty hilarious take on the situation, CM. Could have come from _Vox_ as easily as _The Atlantic_. Women will flock to the party of Bill and Hillary Clinton, John Conyers and Al Franken because it respects women!


....or not. Perhaps the result of this sexual toxicity within the two principal political parties in the USA will result in a mass of non-aligned, disaffected voters. As the article notes, it may be time for a "centrist third party" to come into being... which I personally find hilarious, as it presumes that the Democratic party in the USA is actually "Left", despite all evidence to the contrary. Perhaps it bodes well for an independent candidate for President the next time around....


----------



## Macfury

Why "centrist"? I would see that as a devolution of freedom.



CubaMark said:


> ....or not. Perhaps the result of this sexual toxicity within the two principal political parties in the USA will result in a mass of non-aligned, disaffected voters. As the article notes, it may be time for a "centrist third party" to come into being... which I personally find hilarious, as it presumes that the Democratic party in the USA is actually "Left", despite all evidence to the contrary. Perhaps it bodes well for an independent candidate for President the next time around....


----------



## CubaMark

Can anyone clarify under which authority the U.S. military is operating within Syrian territory?

*Pentagon likely to acknowledge 2,000 U.S. troops in Syria: U.S. officials*


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why "centrist"? I would see that as a devolution of freedom.


_Non sequitur_ How does a positioning on the Left-to-Right political spectrum equate a "devolution of freedom"? Whose freedom is being restricted?


----------



## Macfury

Democrats restrict freedom more than Republicans. Centrists restrict freedom more than Democrats.



CubaMark said:


> _Non sequitur_ How does a positioning on the Left-to-Right political spectrum equate a "devolution of freedom"? Whose freedom is being restricted?


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* 

Time magazine disputes Trump's "Person of the Year" tweet
Time magazine asks Trump to remove fake covers from display at golf clubs


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Related:*
> 
> 
> Time magazine disputes Trump's "Person of the Year" tweet
> 
> Time magazine asks Trump to remove fake covers from display at golf clubs




I can't blame him. I mean, why go to the trouble of an interview and photo shoot if you're only PROBABLY going to be Person of the Year?


----------



## Macfury

I love the way Trump is able to dominate the news cycle with nonsense, while his necessary dismantling of Obama's legacy is barely noticed.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the sexual assaulting, compassionate, feminist left.

Harvey Weinstein accused of sex trafficking



> Harvey Weinstein was slapped with a civil lawsuit Monday charging him with sex trafficking tied to an alleged assault in Cannes, France.
> 
> Aspiring actress Kadian Noble’s lawsuit claims Weinstein first “groomed” her for the alleged assault in London, when he told her that “he had a role in mind for her and that ‘it will be good for you.'”


Related:

Uma Thurman breaks silence on Harvey Weinstein: 'I'm glad it's going slowly - you don't deserve a bullet'



> The actress Uma Thurman has hinted she was a victim of sexual assault as she broke her silence on the allegations against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein.
> 
> The American film star suggested she was preparing to speak out about her own experiences in a message on Thursday evening, saying: "When I'm ready, I'll say what I have to say... stay tuned".


----------



## FeXL

How's that $15/hr thing workin' out for ya?

Automation Nation: America's Largest Employer 'Secretly' Tests Self-Driving Floor-Scrubbers



> Soon, America’s middle class must come to the realization that the country’s largest employer–Walmart is quietly testing an army of robots that soon will replace their jobs. The latest installment is an autonomous floor scrubber being tested at five store locations near the company’s headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas.


----------



## FeXL

Curious. Couldn't the same thing be said about injection sites?

Malibu church 'pressured to end meals for the homeless' because it 'lures the needy'



> A church in upmarket Malibu has decided to stop providing free meals for those in need after claiming they were told by officials they were attracting too many homeless people.
> 
> The United Methodist Church, one of many churches that provides food and help, has been offering free meals twice a week. *But it said it was going to stop after being told the meal service was luring too many homeless people.*
> 
> Dawn Randall, a member of the church, said it recently received an email from city officials. “Very succinctly, they claimed we are increasing homelessness,” she told CBS.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Curious. Couldn't the same thing be said about injection sites?


I'm sure there are lots of right-wing, social conservative, "sweep it under the rug" types who would take the same position on the two issues. And they'd be wrong.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump makes "Pocahontas" remark at Navajo code talkers event, referring to Sen. Warren*










President Trump lashed out at a frequent foe of his while hosting an event for Native American code talkers at the White House Monday, honoring war heroes who used their native language to outwit the enemy and protect U.S. battlefield communications during battle in World Wars I and II.

Mr. Trump hailed the men as "special people" who have an ultimate "love of the country." He also took the solemn occasion to acknowledge the history of the native people in America while seemingly slamming Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Massachusetts, as Pocahontas, a reference to claims she made about being part Native American in the past.

"You're very, very special people. You were here long before any of us were here. Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas. But you know what. I like you. Because you are special, " Mr. Trump remarked.

Mr. Trump has called her "Pocahontas" in the past in reference to questions about Warren's heritage. The controversy stems from a flap that originated with her Senate campaign, in which she was unable to prove definitively that she had Native American heritage. 

Pocahontas was the daughter of chief Powhatan and a member of the Pamunkey Tribe, while Warren has claimed to be part Cherokee.

Warren responded to the remarks during an appearance on MSNBC shortly after the ceremony, saying it was "supposed to be an event that honored heroes."

"It is deeply unfortunate that the President of the United States cannot even make it through a ceremony honoring these heroes without having to throw out a racial slur," said Warren.

** * **​
National Congress of American Indians President Jefferson Keel also expressed his concern, saying in a statement, "We regret that the President's use of the name Pocahontas as a slur to insult a political adversary is overshadowing the true purpose of today's White House ceremony."

Keel added, "We honor the contributions of Pocahontas, a hero to her people, the Pamunkey Indian Tribe in Virginia, who reached across uncertain boundaries and brought people together. Once again, we call upon the President to refrain from using her name in a way that denigrates her legacy."

(CBS)​
*This moron has the vocabulary of a turnip. Jeebus that was painful to watch. You really need to see it, though. The transcript doesn't do his dumbass delivery credit:*​
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BycpdZ2I7s[/ame]​


----------



## Macfury

He should have said "Fauxcahontas."


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He should have said "Fauxcahontas."


Exactly...


----------



## FeXL

Right. 'Cause there's just a ton of "right-wing, social conservatives" living in Malibu...



CubaMark said:


> I'm sure there are lots of right-wing, social conservative, "sweep it under the rug" types who would take the same position on the two issues. And they'd be wrong.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Watchdog Finds More Evidence Obama’s EPA Broke Federal Law



> Former President Barack Obama’s EPA used a social media platform to secretly promote the agency’s policies in violation of federal law, according to a conservative watchdog group in Washington, D.C.
> 
> Judicial Watch obtained 900 pages of documents Monday showing the EPA used social media to lobby support for the Waters of the United States (WOTUS) rule. The agency used Thunderclap, a platform that shares messages across Facebook and Twitter, to recruit outside groups to generate support for various environmental policies.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk the pervy left s'more!

California Democrat Assemblyman Resigns Immediately After Wave of Sexual Conduct Allegations



> As Comrade Arthur says, "So it is possible that a Democrat can resign..."
> 
> He had previously said he would resign at the end of his term, but now with more women accusing him of "unwanted touching," he's decided to resign immediately.


New Conyers Accuser Claims He Verbally Abused Her, Appeared at Meeting in Underwear



> Lawyer Melanie Sloan has come forward with inappropriate behavior that Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) used towards her, which included verbal abuse and comments about her appearance. This happened when she worked as a Democratic counsel for the House Judiciary Committee in the 1990s, which Conyers still serves on as ranking member.


Doncha jes' luvs sum good, ol' fashioned, _feminism_ at work?


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes. The old lefty "It wuz BOTS what dun it!!!" line...

Kathy Griffin Blames “Bot Farms” For Online Backlash Following Anti-Trump Rant – Gets Clobbered Again!



> “Oh, also. I want to be very clear to my actual followers and human beings who are fans. My timeline is flooded with “Bot Farms” and extreme Trump fans...


----------



## CubaMark

Dark history of Pocahontas, whose name Trump keeps using as an insult | Business Insider
Donald Trump: 'Accountability coming' to President following Pocahontas slur during Native American event, says former ethics chief | The Independent
Trump's 'Pocahontas' jab stuns families of Navajo war vets | CTV News
Trump's Most Egregious 'Pocahontas' Joke Yet | The Atlantic


----------



## Macfury

Yep, this will finish Trump for sure!


----------



## FeXL

Waaaaaaait just a minute. Former ethics "chief"? Under Barry?

Doesn't the Prog know that ****** using the word "chief" is cultural appropriation & insulting to Natives everywhere?

Hypocrite...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk the old Prog horndog, Bill hisself, smore!!!

Staff were ‘afraid to bend over near Bill Clinton’ – former White House employee 



> Bending over in the presence of Bill Clinton was a risky undertaking, according to former White House staffer, Linda Tripp. The staffer-turned-whistleblower said new criticism of Clinton’s outrageous behavior is “a day late, and it’s a dollar short.”


----------



## Macfury

Cracks me up. All he said was that people call Warren "Pocahontas." No more. 

Meanwhile:



> CNN political analyst Joshua Green met with Thomas Begay – one of the veterans honored at the event – who said that while he was puzzled by the comment, he was not offended by it.
> 
> “The Marines made us yell ‘Geronimo’ when we jumped out of planes, and that didn’t offend me either,” Begay said.


Navajo Code Talker Breaks Silence After Trump Mocks â€˜Pocahontas.' What He Says Is Amazing. | Daily Wire



FeXL said:


> Waaaaaaait just a minute. Former ethics "chief"? Under Barry?
> 
> Doesn't the Prog know that ****** using the word "chief" is cultural appropriation & insulting to Natives everywhere?
> 
> Hypocrite...


----------



## CubaMark

*“Pocahontas” Not a Racial Slur, Says Prominent White Expert*










Donald J. Trump’s use of the name “Pocahontas” at a White House event honoring Navajo veterans was not a racial slur, a prominent white expert said on Monday.

“If some Native Americans were offended by the use of this term, I’m sorry that they’re so wrong,” the expert said. “As a white person, I think I’m in a better position to know about this stuff.”

She also defended the decision to honor the Navajo veterans near a portrait of Andrew Jackson, who is widely reviled by Native Americans. “Before we held the ceremony, we consulted with a number of other white experts, and we all agreed that Andrew Jackson was great,” she said.

At times, the white expert seemed exasperated at having to explain to Native Americans what was a racial slur and what was not. “Look, I can explain it to them, but it’s real time-consuming, and I have a lot of other stuff to do,” she said.

(New Yorker: The Borowitz Report)​
*Related (and no, this isn't satire. It's sad reaity):* 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME3XJCjY0NU[/ame]​


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> *“Pocahontas” Not a Racial Slur, Says Prominent White Expert*


*snip*

For goodness sake when will main stream media start doing their job?

Their job in this case was to report on the honouring of native Americans for their important contribution to the country during World War II.

Had they focused on that subject and overlooked the single word used by a buffoon of a president they would be doing their jobs. The reason for the event should have far overshadowed the one word uttered.

Instead the media continue to make mountains out of mole hills and are more guilty than the president of the so-called racism involved in the incident.

The sooner the media grows up and stops harassing Trump for every minor and totally unimportant incident and reporting the good being done, the better.

Put the blame for incidents like this where it truly belongs, on the media. Had they overlooked the millisecond it took for that part of the event, there would be a far more balanced report on the heroes of WWII. Instead they choose to deliberately focus on blowing a silly utterance all out of proportion. Period. End of story.

The media needs to forget their hatred for the man the people chose when they elected Trump. The American people made a bad choice when they elected Trump. More importantly, they made the correct decision to reject Clinton, the press's preferred criminal candidate.

It's time the press simply rolled their eyes and sighed at such instances and no more. They would regain some respect from the American people and certainly from the global community over their constant whining about Trump.


----------



## Macfury

This is probably the one day this year that progs are getting bent out of shape on behalf of Native Americans. Never mind abrogations of treaties or squalid living conditions where the government has failed to maintain its agreements.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> For goodness sake when will main stream media start doing their job?


I think it's fabulous. Why? 'Cause the bastards haven't hit bottom yet. They need to be in the position of "been down so long everything looks up to me" before they realize they have nowhere else to go. That's when things will finally change.

Carry on, me boyos! Yer not there yet... :clap:


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> For goodness sake when will main stream media start doing their job?
> 
> Their job in this case was to report on the honouring of native Americans for their important contribution to the country during World War II.
> 
> Had they focused on that subject and overlooked the single word used by a buffoon of a president they would be doing their jobs. The reason for the event should have far overshadowed the one word uttered.
> 
> Instead the media continue to make mountains out of mole hills and are more guilty than the president of the so-called racism involved in the incident.
> 
> The sooner the media grows up and stops harassing Trump for every minor and totally unimportant incident and reporting the good being done, the better.
> 
> Put the blame for incidents like this where it truly belongs, on the media. Had they overlooked the millisecond it took for that part of the event, there would be a far more balanced report on the heroes of WWII. Instead they choose to deliberately focus on blowing a silly utterance all out of proportion. Period. End of story.


The media would have reported the honouring of the code talkers at the White House, but Trump had to open his stupid mouth and slam Warren completely out of context. If Trump wanted (for some reason) to say something about her in another instance, fine, Tweet away. But it's astoundingly insensitive, insulting and just plain idiotic to use that ceremony to throw out the "Pocahontas" slam. 

And if you care to remember, Warren did nothing more than rely on handed-down family history (accurate or not) to once, many years ago, self-identify as a university professor with indigenous roots. Sarah Huckabee Sanders' slam about "furthering her career" by "pretending" to be native American is a very tired, inaccurate, mantra of the rabid Right. There is no context, no reason for Warren's questionable native heritage to be brought up in the code talkers' honouring ceremony. It's something that came out of the blue.

It's like the Big Orange Buffoon is saying "Hey! I know Black people! I'm not racist!" but in this case, it's "Hey! You code talker guys are Indians, right? You know who's an "Indian"? That Pocahontas chick... Liz Warren... yeah, she sucks, but you guys? I like you guys! You're special!".



> The media needs to forget their hatred for the man the people chose when they elected Trump. The American people made a bad choice when they elected Trump.


Except they didn't. 2.9 million more of the popular votes went for Clinton.




> More importantly, they made the correct decision to reject Clinton, the press's preferred criminal candidate.


Clinton would have been more of the same old ****, it's true. But choosing between the lesser of two evils....



> It's time the press simply rolled their eyes and sighed at such instances and no more. They would regain some respect from the American people and certainly from the global community over their constant whining about Trump.


Could you offer some examples of other instances where a U.S. President had put his buffoonery on display to this extent, and the press gave them a pass?


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's about s'more of those caring, compassionate, feminist lefties...

Charlie Rose, sexual harassment and the female newsroom managers who looked away



> In the swirl of revelations about men degrading and diminishing women, the spotlight has recently swung to the news media — most prominently the firing of Charlie Rose, 75. The once highly respected superstar had a host role on CBS This Morning, a correspondent spot on the network's 60 Minutes and an eponymous interview show on PBS. In one fell swoop of a Washington Post story, in which multiple women detailed Rose’s sexual peccadilloes, he was swiftly kicked from his enviable perch.


What's this?! Another prominent lefty "journalist" breaking his feminist trust? Abusing his power? Taking advantage of his position?

Shocka...

(caution: link to the Clinton News Network...)

NBC fires Matt Lauer after complaint about 'inappropriate sexual behavior'



> Matt Lauer was fired from NBC News on Wednesday after an employee filed a complaint about "inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace," the network announced.
> 
> Savannah Guthrie made the announcement at the top of the "Today" show. *"We are devastated," she said.*


M'bold.

Wonder why. 'Cause he was caught?

More:



> "This is a sad morning at 'Today' and NBC News," Guthrie said at the top of the 7 a.m. hour. "As I'm sure you can understand, we are devastated. *I'm heartbroken for Matt.*"


M'bold.

Yep...


----------



## Macfury

Man, you sound like one of those snowflakes who never understood the Electoral College and are still jonesing for Hillary.

I never heard you speak out against Obama for the past eight years, not matter how ridiculous and insensitive his statement were. Guess he wasn't offending a group you cared about.



CubaMark said:


> The media would have reported the honouring of the code talkers at the White House, but Trump had to open his stupid mouth and slam Warren completely out of context. If Trump wanted (for some reason) to say something about her in another instance, fine, Tweet away. But it's astoundingly insensitive, insulting and just plain idiotic to use that ceremony to throw out the "Pocahontas" slam.
> 
> And if you care to remember, Warren did nothing more than rely on handed-down family history (accurate or not) to once, many years ago, self-identify as a university professor with indigenous roots. Sarah Huckabee Sanders' slam about "furthering her career" by "pretending" to be native American is a very tired, inaccurate, mantra of the rabid Right. There is no context, no reason for Warren's questionable native heritage to be brought up in the code talkers' honouring ceremony. It's something that came out of the blue.
> 
> It's like the Big Orange Buffoon is saying "Hey! I know Black people! I'm not racist!" but in this case, it's "Hey! You code talker guys are Indians, right? You know who's an "Indian"? That Pocahontas chick... Liz Warren... yeah, she sucks, but you guys? I like you guys! You're special!".
> 
> 
> 
> Except they didn't. 2.9 million more of the popular votes went for Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton would have been more of the same old ****, it's true. But choosing between the lesser of two evils....
> 
> 
> 
> Could you offer some examples of other instances where a U.S. President had put his buffoonery on display to this extent, and the press gave them a pass?


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> Could you offer some examples of other instances where a U.S. President had put his buffoonery on display to this extent, and the press gave them a pass?


Every president made gaffes during their terms, Goggle is full of them. They were mentioned in passing by the press who back then focused on the story at hand and noted the gaffe had occurred.

Now the media lives and dies looking for not the story, but the gaffes and blow them all up into major incidents. If you cannot see the modus operandi of the media, you may need a new prescription. 

That is my entire point, not who else may have committed gaffes, nor did I ever suggest giving the president 'a pass'. They shouldn't, but the persecution of the candidate who won is their mission now.

I don't care one iota about how many votes Clinton got or didn't get. That's history and the American system was legal when it rejected her. That excuse is just that, an excuse. She lost and thank goodness she did. The lessor of two evils won and that too is history now.


----------



## FeXL

Stop Distorting Housing Markets



> The Republican tax-reform plan, if adopted, would put on the chopping block some cherished tax deductions—perhaps none more so than the $80 billion mortgage-interest deduction (MID) on residences, which mostly benefits affluent homeowners. As the various bills under consideration propose, the deduction should be pruned or eliminated—not just because it is inequitable but also because it distorts the housing market.


Short, interesting read.

Beej, as an aside, a bit of info on US mortgage deductions inside I found interesting.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, I'm thinking her halo is just a bit more tarnished than what you purport. And, somewhere nearer her backside...

Elizabeth Warren, Progressive Fraud



> The desire to lionize those Donald Trump attacks shouldn’t blind anyone to the great Warren con.
> 
> My favorite Elizabeth Warren story involves a cookbook. Warren, who was at that time posing as a trailblazing Cherokee, actually contributed recipes to a recipe book with the name, I kid you not, “Pow Wow Chow.” But here’s the best part of the story. She plagiarized some of the recipes. Yes indeed, her version of “pow wow chow” came directly from a famous French chef.


Funny, never heard that story on the MSM...

More at the link.



CubaMark said:


> And if you care to remember, Warren did nothing more than rely on handed-down family history (accurate or not) to once, many years ago, self-identify as a university professor with indigenous roots.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking her halo is just a bit more tarnished than what you purport. And, somewhere nearer her backside...


It's quite revealing... the things about which y'all choose to become enraged...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL appears bemused. You were the one who came across as outraged!



CubaMark said:


> It's quite revealing... the things about which y'all choose to become enraged...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Man, you sound like one of those snowflakes who never understood the Electoral College and are still jonesing for Hillary.


I think I've been pretty clear on my position that Hillary is bad news. 



Macfury said:


> I never heard you speak out against Obama for the past eight years, not matter how ridiculous and insensitive his statement were. Guess he wasn't offending a group you cared about.


Name some. I'm no fan of Obama. The problem with you folks on the unhinged right side of the political spectrum is that whenever someone calls you on your bull**** (like that time y'all thought Obama was sending in the troops to take over Texas), you presume that we're on Obama's side. You can be opposed to two sides in an argument, you know.

As for my record on Obama in general, a sampling:


http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-155.html#post1855610
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-140.html#post1606218
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-131.html#post1483377
http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-109.html#post1273597


----------



## Macfury

Yup. I remember those criticisms--Obama is not far enough left for you. And that he is a war criminal like Castro.



CubaMark;2579641I'm no fan of Obama. The problem with you folks on the unhinged right side of the political spectrum is that whenever someone calls you on your bull**** (like that time y'all thought [URL="http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-164.html#post1959641" said:


> Obama was sending in the troops to take over Texas[/URL]), you presume that we're on Obama's side. You can be opposed to two sides in an argument, you know.
> 
> As for my record on Obama in general, a sampling:
> 
> 
> http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-155.html#post1855610
> http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-140.html#post1606218
> http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-131.html#post1483377
> http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-109.html#post1273597


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Yup. I remember those criticisms--Obama is not far enough left for you. And that he is a war criminal like Castro.


*Would you please link to the article where you claim I posted this?*

BTW, on the Washington Post / Roy Moore / Project Veritas failed sting operation, Samantha Bee does a great treatment:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rELK_bC0pxE[/ame]

The original Washington Post recording of the meeting with the alleged Moore victim can be heard here:

Samantha Bee Spoofs Project Veritas Sting Operation Aimed at Washington Post


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Would you please link to the article where you claim I posted this?*


*

You called 'Bam a war criminal in your own link.*


----------



## eMacMan

Not sure why but this page of this spread is spread out half way to Otterwad.


----------



## FeXL

Is that like Sparwood? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

WTF are you going on about?



CubaMark said:


> The problem with you folks on the unhinged right side of the political spectrum is that whenever someone calls you on your bull**** (like that time y'all thought Obama was sending in the troops to take over Texas), you presume that we're on Obama's side.


The only way you can be opposed to both sides of an argument is if there are three or more sides. 



CubaMark said:


> You can be opposed to two sides in an argument, you know.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You called 'Bam a war criminal in your own link.


Yes, but I did not say that about Fidel Castro.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> WTF are you going on about?
> 
> The only way you can be opposed to both sides of an argument is if there are three or more sides.


For those who see the world in black and white terms, that does present a challenge to the intellect.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> For those who see the world in black and white terms, that does present a challenge to the intellect.




Ooh, snap, amigo!


----------



## pm-r

> For goodness sake when will main stream media start doing their job?



This also applies to the so called Canadian journalists, or should I say more specifically to the Canadian TV news anchors who can't even cover the basics: what, where, how, when and maybe why.

Gheese, not even the sometimes rolling subtitle text provides some of the basic news info. Very frustrating and annoying and a lack of proper news reporting training, or is it just "the NEW way"???

End of rant… :-(


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Beej, as an aside, a bit of info on US mortgage deductions inside I found interesting.


Thanks. This is one of those U.S. tax oddities that should go. Interesting point that home ownership is similar in Canada and the U.S., despite different tax treatment for mortgage interest.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Thanks. This is one of those U.S. tax oddities that should go. Interesting point that home ownership is similar in Canada and the U.S., despite different tax treatment for mortgage interest.


It's interesting in that it encourages people to finance purchases by mortgaging their home instead of using a credit card.


----------



## eMacMan

With family deductions up around $20,000, your mortgage payments would have to be at least $1800/month to benefit even marginally from that deduction. Even more if you have had the mortgage long enough that some of the payment is going towards principal.

It should be ditched altogether.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Zippy the Wonder Slug, WTF are you giggling about?

We both said the same thing...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ooh, snap, amigo!


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Thanks. This is one of those U.S. tax oddities that should go. Interesting point that home ownership is similar in Canada and the U.S., despite different tax treatment for mortgage interest.


Growing up I'd heard that Americans could deduct their mortgage interest. I wasn't aware there was a ceiling until that article.

And, I agree about your home ownership observation.


----------



## FeXL

Woohoo!!!

CNN boycotting White House Christmas party for media



> CNN will be staying home for the holidays.
> 
> The news network famously dubbed “Fake News” by President Donald Trump will be boycotting the White House Christmas party for the media, CNN sources confirmed to Fox News on Tuesday, citing the ongoing feud between Trump and the outlet.


The punchline:



> News of CNN's plans to boycott the event was greeted positively by White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders. "Christmas comes early," she tweeted. "Finally good news from @CNN."


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Nov. 27, 2017_

*PRESS RELEASE: HISTORICAL CONTRIBUTION OF NATIVE AMERICAN CODE TALKERS IS INVALUABLE, CULTURAL INSENSITIVITY IS UNFORTUNATE*










WASHINGTON, DC - Today, during an event at the White House honoring Native American Code Talkers, President Donald Trump made reference to Sen. Elizabeth Warren as “Pocahontas.”

The remark prompted immediate backlash.

“First and foremost, we appreciate the honor and recognition that has been bestowed upon the Navajo Code Talkers, who truly are National Treasures and protectors of freedom,” Navajo Nation President Russell Begaye said.

The reference to Sen. Warren as “Pocahontas” is a part of an ongoing feud between the senator and President Trump over statements Warren had made to have Native American heritage during her Senate campaign.

“In this day and age, all tribal nations still battle insensitive references to our people. The prejudice that Native American people face is an unfortunate historical legacy,” President Begaye said. “As Native Americans, we are proud people who have taken care of this land long before there was the United States of America and we will continue to fight for this Nation.”

President Begaye said the Navajo Nation does not want to engage in this dialogue between Sen. Warren and President Trump.

The purpose of the day’s event was to honor all Native American Code Talkers who used their native languages to encode sensitive messages and protect U.S. wartime communications in both World Wars I and II.

“It was our Code Talkers that ensured the freedom of the United States and that’s what is important to remember here,” President Begaye said.

(Navajo Nation)​


----------



## Macfury

Ooooooooh, SNAP!



FeXL said:


> Hey, Zippy the Wonder Slug, WTF are you giggling about?
> 
> We both said the same thing...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, what new revelations do we have on the feminist, pervy left today?

CNN Producer Fired Over "Inappropriate Behavior"



> "The behavior attributed to Mr. Davis does not align with the standards and values of CNN," the network said in a statement. CNN has fired senior producer Teddy Davis over claims of inappropriate behavior.
> 
> "A comprehensive investigation was conducted as soon as this matter was brought to our attention. The behavior attributed to Mr. Davis does not align with the standards and values of CNN and Mr. Davis is no longer with the company," a CNN spokesperson said in a statement Wednesday.


The Clinton News Network?

Shocka. 

Two More Women Accuse Franken, One of Groping Her Breast, The Other of Forcing His Tongue Down Her Throat



> Three incidences make a pattern. Six incidences make a compulsion.
> 
> Another grope on a USO tour, this one of a female veteran...


----------



## Beej

eMacMan said:


> With family deductions up around $20,000, your mortgage payments would have to be at least $1800/month to benefit even marginally from that deduction. Even more if you have had the mortgage long enough that some of the payment is going towards principal.


There are many deductions allowed as "itemized" deductions in the U.S., not just mortgage interest. State and/or local taxes, for example. Mortgage interest can be one of the items that push a family over the top, making itemized preferable to a generic deduction.

The more I read about U.S. personal income taxes, the more evident it is that most "left v right" debates on taxes are BS. They have no standard for effective vs ineffective. For us, that mess is on the fringe (e.g. kids sporting equipment deduction), not a major feature.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hey, what new revelations do we have on the feminist, pervy left today?


If only you put as much stock in the decades-long parade of women allegedly molested by the Groper-in-Chief.... XX)

*The Trump allegations*
*A list of the sexual misconduct accusations made against Donald Trump. He has denied the allegations*










A growing list of powerful men have faced serious consequences for sexual misconduct allegations but the most powerful one of all has faced none. Instead Donald Trump's official position, as his spokeswoman Sarah Sanders recently clarified in a White House press briefing, is that the 20 women accusing him of assault and harassment are lying. Trump has also suggested some were not attractive enough for him to want to sexually assault. As the conversation around sexual conduct continues to evolve, and new abusers are revealed, here are the cases against the president.
(Read the full list here: The Guardian UK)​


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> If only you put as much stock in the decades-long parade of women allegedly molested by the Groper-in-Chief.... XX)
> 
> *The Trump allegations*
> *A list of the sexual misconduct accusations made against Donald Trump. He has denied the allegations*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A growing list of powerful men have faced serious consequences for sexual misconduct allegations but the most powerful one of all has faced none. Instead Donald Trump's official position, as his spokeswoman Sarah Sanders recently clarified in a White House press briefing, is that the 20 women accusing him of assault and harassment are lying. Trump has also suggested some were not attractive enough for him to want to sexually assault. As the conversation around sexual conduct continues to evolve, and new abusers are revealed, here are the cases against the president.
> (Read the full list here: The Guardian UK)​


They are allegations, they could all be telling the truth, or could not. This is a scary time in history when some says you did something and it is immediately accepted as fact. No longer innocent till proven guilty. I am not saying Trump is innocent or defending him, it is the principle. If you are a white male and a woman says you did something sexual it is pretty much assumed you are guilty these days, or at least that is how it appears through the media.

I also think Trumps "grab em" quote is taken a bit out of context. Reading it he is saying basically what groupies will let him do, anything, including grabbing them by the...

Vulgar and crass yes, but a crime? Hardly. I am sure any and all male rock stars, actors, celebrities of any kind would say the same thing, just maybe in different words. There are countless stories of rock star roadies picking out girls and ushering them into the private quarters of the star so he could have his way with them. 

If there are charges to be laid then they should be laid. Not sure moral character really matters when you are the President anymore. Bill Clinton is a good example.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> They are allegations, they could all be telling the truth, or could not. This is a scary time in history when some says you did something and it is immediately accepted as fact. No longer innocent till proven guilty. I am not saying Trump is innocent or defending him, it is the principle. If you are a white male and a woman says you did something sexual it is pretty much assumed you are guilty these days, or at least that is how it appears through the media.
> 
> I also think Trumps "grab em" quote is taken a bit out of context. Reading it he is saying basically what groupies will let him do, anything, including grabbing them by the...
> 
> Vulgar and crass yes, but a crime? Hardly. I am sure any and all male rock stars, actors, celebrities of any kind would say the same thing, just maybe in different words. There are countless stories of rock star roadies picking out girls and ushering them into the private quarters of the star so he could have his way with them.
> 
> If there are charges to be laid then they should be laid. Not sure moral character really matters when you are the President anymore. Bill Clinton is a good example.


Yep another extreme example. Minnesota Public Radio deep sixed Garrison Keillor based on a single minor allegation. Not only that but they disappeared his entire body of work. It seems credible that he was set up after writing an article saying Al Franken should not resign. 

A real crock as MPR is one of the few really profitable public radio stations and that is almost entirely due to syndicating Keillor's Prairie Home Companion.


----------



## FeXL

I'd be more than happy to read any concrete evidence of his wrongdoing, ie., convictions, confessions, etc.

Short of that, the $h!tshow of that most hallowed of things currently in the news, feminist lefties, will have to suffice...



CubaMark said:


> If only you put as much stock in the decades-long parade of women allegedly molested by the Groper-in-Chief.... XX)


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of which!

Music Mogul Russell Simmons Accused of Rape by Model, Then 17 Years Old; Now Accused by Second Woman



> Flashback to a story I didn't post on:
> The rape allegedly occurred with Brett Ratner present.
> 
> Serendipity.
> 
> The model says she begged Ratner, "Help me," when Simmons began to rape her, but then realized they were acting in concert.
> 
> Allegedly.
> 
> Interestingly, after this news dropped, Terry Crews -- who recently named the agent who groped his penis -- released this email from Simmons, asking Crews to give the groper a "pass:"


And:

A Watershed Moment for Democrats: #Conyersgate



> One of John Conyers' accusers has gone public.
> 
> Now let's see what happens.
> 
> Lest we forget, less than one week ago Nancy Pelosi was calling Conyers an "icon"! How times change.


----------



## FeXL

Well, it's a start.

Flynn pleads guilty to lying to FBI, vows to cooperate in Mueller’s Russia probe



> Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI amid special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and has pleaded guilty Friday.
> 
> Mr. Flynn was charged with one count of making false statements regarding interactions with Russian officials after the presidential election.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Well, it's a start.


*Indeed.*

*Flynn pleads guilty to lying, says Trump transition team directed him*

Prosecutors with Mueller's office say Flynn falsely stated to the FBI that he hadn't discussed sanctions with the then-Russian ambassador to the United States. The Obama administration had recently imposed sanctions against Russia over interference in the 2016 U.S. election.

* * *​
Early on, Trump had taken a particular interest in the status of the Flynn investigation. Former FBI director James Comey has said Trump had asked him in a private Oval Office meeting to consider ending the investigation. The White House has denied that assertion.

Flynn, who was interviewed by the FBI just days after Trump's inauguration, was forced to resign in February after White House officials said he had misled them about whether he had discussed sanctions with Russia's then-ambassador, Sergey Kislyak.

Administration officials said Flynn hadn't discussed sanctions that had been imposed on Russia in part over election meddling. In charging Flynn, prosecutors made clear they believe that claim to be false. 

* * *​
Besides a Dec. 29 conversation about sanctions, prosecutors also cite an earlier December meeting, in which Flynn asked Kislyak to delay or defeat a UN Security Council resolution. That appears to refer to the body's vote a day later to condemn Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

In a striking rupture with past practice, the Obama administration refrained from vetoing the condemnation, opting instead to abstain. The rest of the 15-nation council, including Russia, voted unanimously against Israel.

At the time, Israel was lobbying furiously against the resolution and President-elect Trump's team spoke up on behalf of the Jewish state. Trump personally called Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sisi to press the case against the condemnation, and Egypt surprisingly postponed the scheduled showdown on Dec. 22 — the same day Flynn met Kislyak.

After more procedural wrangling, the vote occurred a day later. Trump almost immediately condemned the UN result via Twitter.

"As to the UN, things will be different after Jan. 20th," Trump said, referencing his upcoming inauguration.

Meanwhile this morning, U.S. stocks veered sharply lower after Flynn's plea.

Investors worried that the developments could spell trouble for the White House and its legislative agenda, including a massive tax overhaul that has been making progress in the Senate.

Small-company stocks, which would benefit the most from corporate tax cuts, fell far more than the rest of the market. 

(CBC)​


----------



## eMacMan

Certainly it is the pinnacle of hypocrisy to criticize the Russians for interfering in the US election. Particularly as their claimed interference was revealing the truth about Hillary. Especially in light of the proven allegations regarding the DNC handing the primary to Hillary.


----------



## Macfury

Laughing my ass off at Flynn's plea. He lied to the FBI about doing something that was NOT illegal, speaking to Russians about a Syria policy. If this is all that Mueller has got, he should really stick a fork in it.


----------



## CubaMark

For those of you who adore the Buffoon-in-Chief: a concise and clear rundown of what Flynn's cooperation with prosecutors means for Trump:

Seth Abramson (Twitter)

Some examples:



> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 6/ Deals like this are offered *only* when a witness can incriminate someone "higher up the food-chain" than them. In the case of the nation's former National Security Advisor, the *only* people above him in the executive-branch hierarchy are the President and the Vice President.





> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 18/ This is critical: Flynn pleading guilty today means he was cooperating with Mueller *before* this. You don't offer value to a prosecution *after* you plead, you offer it beforehand—via what's called a "proffer" of info (that incriminates others). That's what earns you a deal.
> 
> 
> *Seth Abramson*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 19/ So it's entirely possible that when Mueller called Kushner in to talk about Flynn, he already had everything Flynn planned to give him—meaning he was *testing* Kushner to see if Kushner would lie about events Mueller was already fully informed about via Flynn's prior proffer.





> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 30/ We know Trump knew there was a "high likelihood" (the legal standard in this case) Russia was committing crimes against America as of August 17, 2016, when he received his first security briefing as a presidential candidate. A speech in late July suggests he knew it earlier.
> 
> 
> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 31/ But given that Mike Flynn dined with Vladimir Putin in Moscow in December of 2015—after he'd been a key Trump campaign foreign policy and national security advisor for four months—it's possible Trump had this knowledge as early as the fall of 2015 or the winter of 2015-2016.





> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 54/ *Don't* listen to the White House if it claims the only thing Flynn is offering the Special Counsel is evidence that Trump ordered him to violate the Logan Act (which prohibits private citizens from negotiating with foreign governments) pre-inauguration. This is *far* bigger.
> 
> 
> *Seth Abramson*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 55/ I've been saying for many months now that the publicly available information we have *strongly* suggests that Trump ordered certain of his subordinates to make contact with Russia *pre-election*—which is an entirely different matter than making such contact *post-election*.
> 
> 
> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 56/ With the plea Flynn just entered minutes ago, something significant has died in public discourse: *any possibility* that the Trump-Russia probe is, as Trump and his allies have long claimed, either a "witch hunt" or "sour grapes" or a "nothingburger." This is all 100% real.
> 
> 
> *Seth Abramson‏*
> @SethAbramson
> 
> 57/ Those of us in the "reality-based community" always knew this was real, and all the media reporting on it confirmed it was real, but it now becomes unthinkable that the White House—the world's foremost bastion of "fake news" right now—could keep claiming this is all bollocks.


----------



## Macfury

And what does any of this have to do with Russia "hacking" the U.S. election? Abramson has been increasingly unhinged about this topic for a year now.


----------



## FeXL

Too subtle?



CubaMark said:


> Indeed.


----------



## Dr.G.

"But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!" Amos 5:24

I recall the statement "What did he know and when did he know it?"


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I recall the statement "What did he know and when did he know it?"


Indeed. Recent documents indicate that Comey knew he would not indict Hillary, long before he investigated her.


----------



## Macfury

And now ABC retracts its "bombshell" on Russian collusion:



> During a live Special Report, ABC News reported that a confidant of Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn said Flynn was prepared to testify that then-candidate Donald Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials during the campaign.
> 
> That source later clarified that during the campaign, Trump assigned Flynn and a small circle of other senior advisers to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other hot spots.
> 
> It was shortly after the election, that President-elect Trump directed Flynn to contact Russian officials on topics that included working jointly against ISIS.


Gonna be a sour night at the Abramson residence.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And now ABC retracts its "bombshell" on Russian collusion:
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna be a sour night at the Abramson residence.


Related:

ABC Issues Major Correction after Botched Flynn Report That Led to Dow Plunge



> ABC issued an embarrassing correction Friday night after a report by Brian Ross caused a panic in the stock market and set Twitter on fire with thousands of retweets. Ross originally reported that then-candidate Trump had directed Michael Flynn to contact the Russians during the campaign. ABC later clarified that Trump made the call during the transition.


From “Clarification” to Correction: ABC News Corrects The Clarification Of Their Fake News About Michael Flynn



> ABC news was twitter shamed into correcting the “clarification” of their fake news story about Michael Flynn that sent the rest of the Liberal-Left & the MSM into full blown Trump Derangement Syndrome. The Tweet adversely affected the stock market causing a decline. Makes you wonder who made money of the initial lie?
> 
> The initial tweet (deleted) indicated Trump instructed Flynn to contact the Russians during the campaign fueling their fever swamp dreams, the ABC “source” later corrected this egregious falsehood stating the instruction occurred during the transition which makes it a non-story – that’s what incoming government’s do.
> 
> After being savaged on Twitter for their “clarification” tweet ABC issued a new tweet appropriately calling it a correction of their fake news scoop.


Flynn's plea doesn't prove collusion



> Friday morning’s guilty plea from former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn is a major disappointment for Democrats. Flynn admitting to having made false statements is nowhere near where the Democrats want this to go.
> 
> Of course, the story is big and the fact that a former White House official has been charged with anything and pleaded guilty is consequential, but it doesn’t suggest any collusion occurred and it doesn’t even get close to confirming that Donald Trump or his campaign was somehow complicit in a nefarious scheme.


Another great, big, fat, nothingburger from the Progs attempting to prove collusion between Trump & The Russkies...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Another great, big, fat, nothingburger from the Progs attempting to prove collusion between Trump & The Russkies...


You could sense the crackle of excitement from CubaMark as he quoted Tweets from that idiot Seth Abramson. Nothing but the stink of flop sweat from the mainstream media now.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You could sense the crackle of excitement from CubaMark as he quoted Tweets from that idiot Seth Abramson. Nothing but the stink of flop sweat from the mainstream media now.


Not only that, but as often happens in his excitement to attempt to score a hit, my OP went <whoosh>, right over his head...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You could sense the crackle of excitement from CubaMark as he quoted Tweets from that idiot Seth Abramson. Nothing but the stink of flop sweat from the mainstream media now.


Maybe there's something to the Russia thing, maybe not. Discussing substantive developments is interesting and twitter includes people who post thoughtful content. 

Ehmacers commenting on "hot takes" from twitter opinionators as events unfold is not ehmac's forte. I hope that does not become a fad. Similar to posting memes...sometimes funny, obnoxious when frequent.

Mind the medium.


----------



## Macfury

Obama state department on "meetings with Russians":

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/936962187846934528/video/1


----------



## Macfury

Abramson's been on a tear about Russia for months... foaming-at-the-mouth-and-falling-down-backwards type.



Beej said:


> Maybe there's something to the Russia thing, maybe not. Discussing substantive developments is interesting and twitter includes people who post thoughtful content.
> 
> Ehmacers commenting on "hot takes" from twitter opinionators as events unfold is not ehmac's forte. I hope that does not become a fad. Similar to posting memes...sometimes funny, obnoxious when frequent.
> 
> Mind the medium.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> "But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!" Amos 5:24
> 
> I recall the statement "What did he know and when did he know it?"


I view this in a slightly different way. I call it the Oda Complex. If someone lies about a small item, you ask the question why? Are they covering up something much larger?

A simple truthful answer to the smaller question, while it maybe politically uncomfortable, usually does not roll up into an all out vivisection............... but to lies makes one thing that greater lies are being covered up. This doesn’t mean there are any, but it is a natural question don’t you think.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> I view this in a slightly different way. I call it the Oda Complex. If someone lies about a small item, you ask the question why? Are they covering up something much larger?
> 
> A simple truthful answer to the smaller question, while it maybe politically uncomfortable, usually does not roll up into an all out vivisection............... but to lies makes one thing that greater lies are being covered up. This doesn’t mean there are any, but it is a natural question don’t you think.


Valid points, Rp. Time will tell. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> I view this in a slightly different way. I call it the Oda Complex. If someone lies about a small item, you ask the question why? Are they covering up something much larger?
> 
> A simple truthful answer to the smaller question, while it maybe politically uncomfortable, usually does not roll up into an all out vivisection............... but to lies makes one thing that greater lies are being covered up. This doesn’t mean there are any, but it is a natural question don’t you think.


We're forgetting that these are polieticians. Truth is they are going to lie whatever the reason. Were they capable of an iota of honesty would they not have chosen a more honest profession?


----------



## Macfury

The way the FBI works, they would trip you into lying as well. That's why they charge people with process crimes. If they spoke to every one of your co-workers and every one of your neighbours and asked them thousands of questions about matters that were NOT illegal before interviewing you, how likely do you believe you would be to answer every last question so that they lined up perfectly?



Rps said:


> I view this in a slightly different way. I call it the Oda Complex. If someone lies about a small item, you ask the question why? Are they covering up something much larger?
> 
> A simple truthful answer to the smaller question, while it maybe politically uncomfortable, usually does not roll up into an all out vivisection............... but to lies makes one thing that greater lies are being covered up. This doesn’t mean there are any, but it is a natural question don’t you think.


----------



## FeXL

Time to drain another swamp.

New documents reveal FBI's Clinton cover-up



> In Washington, the ostensible story is rarely the real story. We know, for example, that former President Clinton engineered a meeting with President Obama’s attorney general, Loretta Lynch, on the tarmac of the Phoenix Airport on June 27, 2016.
> 
> That’s the official story, replete with the charming and intentionally disarming detail that all they talked about was their grandchildren. It was just coincidental, don’t you know, that at the time the FBI was looking into Hillary Clinton’s use of a “personal” email server to send, receive and store classified information.
> 
> And it was also simply coincidental that just a few days later, the director of the FBI – who served under Attorney General Lynch – announced that he wouldn’t recommend a prosecution of Hillary Clinton.
> 
> Richard Nixon must be rolling over in his grave.


Related:

Mueller's Top FBI Agent Probing Clinton Emails, Russian-Collusion "Removed" After Anti-Trump Texts Found



> Special Counsel Robert Mueller's top FBI investigator into 'Russian meddling' and Clinton emails has been removed from the probe reportedly due to the discovery of anti-Trump text messages exchanged with a colleague (whom he happened to be having an extra-marital affair with).
> 
> FBI veteran, Peter Strzok, considered "one of the most experienced and trusted FBI counterintel investigators" according to the NYT, and who was tapped by Mueller to help lead the probe of Russian meddling in last year's presidential election, after helping lead the investigation into whether Hillary Clinton mishandled classified information on her private email account, has left Mueller's team.


----------



## Macfury

I guess you have been wondering for some time what greater lies Hillary has been covering up, after Comey publicly indicated she had lied to the FBI.



Dr.G. said:


> Valid points, Rp. Time will tell. We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

After decades of denying it exists, suddenly they're believers?


Progressives Sound Alarm on Voter Fraud



> Progressive candidates for local office in Alabama and Minnesota have claimed in recent weeks that they are the victims of voter fraud, despite liberal protestations that the idea voter fraud could impact elections is little more than a rightwing myth.
> 
> A local Alabama chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) is alleging voter fraud in a nonpartisan city council race despite the organization's national president claiming that voter fraud is a "myth." Meanwhile, a progressive candidate in Minneapolis, Minn., who was endorsed by the local chapter of a national group linked to the Sen. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) movement, is also accusing a fellow progressive opponent of voter fraud.


I jes' luvs it when the Progs flip-flop like a fish dragged onto the beach...


----------



## FeXL

Good.

US Tells The UN It Will Forge Its Own Path On Immigration



> The U.S. pulled out of a global pact on migration and refugees Saturday, informing the United Nations that it will make decisions independently about who is allowed to come to the U.S.
> 
> The U.S. will no longer participate in the Global Compact on Migration, a result of the New York Declaration for Refugees and Migrants, which was unanimously adopted last year as a non-binding agreement to protect the rights of refugees, help them resettle, and facilitate access to education and employment, according to Voice of America.


Related:

US pulls out of UN pledge to protect migrants as Europe struggles with refugee tide



> Washington has repudiated a UN pledge to protect the rights of migrants regardless of their legal status. The agreement is incompatible with the country’s sovereignty and the Trump administration’s views on immigration, US envoy Nikki Haley said.
> 
> In a statement released on Saturday, Ambassador Haley said President Donald Trump “determined that the US would end its participation in the process” known as the New York Declaration for Refugees and Migrants. Despite former president Barack Obama having signed the declaration, Washington’s involvement is an affront to the American idea of sovereignty, she said.


----------



## Dr.G.

White House Says Cutting Meals on Wheels Is ‘Compassionate'

"Let them eat cake."

Guns not butter. "Damn the torpedoes and full steam ahead."


----------



## FeXL

How about a little perspective?

Imagine the millions of people who could have been fed & watered worldwide with the billions given to unsustainable technologies like alternative energy and electric cars, and with the trillions spent on imaginary problems like Globull Warming. And, with the leftovers, how many diseases could not only have been treated but eradicated?

The cancellation of Meals on Wheels is the least of the issues...



Dr.G. said:


> "Let them eat cake."
> 
> Guns not butter. "Damn the torpedoes and full steam ahead."


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> How about a little perspective?
> 
> Imagine the millions of people who could have been fed & watered worldwide with the billions given to unsustainable technologies like alternative energy and electric cars, and with the trillions spent on imaginary problems like Globull Warming. And, with the leftovers, how many diseases could not only have been treated but eradicated?
> 
> The cancellation of Meals on Wheels is the least of the issues...


Just think of what basically every country is spending on military hardware and weapons of destruction. :-( That could be used to feed all that are hungry in the world. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

I don't think it's a reasonable argument for the planet to disarm. Why? 'Cause the bad guys never would. It's morally wrong to stand by & watch harm befall you, your family, your neighbours & your countrymen.

OTOH, nothing of any great value would be lost with my suggestions.

Win/win.



Dr.G. said:


> Just think of what basically every country is spending on military hardware and weapons of destruction. :-( That could be used to feed all that are hungry in the world. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting article about the John Phillips case now before the Supreme Court. Covers both sides quite effectively. Thankfully at least one of the writers made the effort to get to know Mr. Phillips personally. 

POINT/COUNTERPOINT: Should government require a Colorado bakery to design cakes for gay weddings? | Colorado Springs Gazette, News



> ...
> When I first heard of Jack's story, I wanted to know more. Who is the homophobic and hateful man who would not decorate a gay wedding cake?
> 
> On my first visit to Masterpiece, I stood there looking over the goods as a soft-spoken man was attending to another couple. He then came over to me and I asked him if his name was Jack. He affirmed and I extended my hand out and stated I was a gay man. He shook my hand and said, "Welcome," and "How may I help you?"
> 
> From there, I continued to visit Masterpiece, and each time my conversations were a bit longer and more detailed. His daughter greets me with open arms when I visit. One time Jack wanted a picture of the two of us and he had his daughter take the picture. As we posed, Jack placed his arm around me. I thought to myself, "is this a man who hates gays?"
> ....


----------



## wonderings

Dr.G. said:


> Just think of what basically every country is spending on military hardware and weapons of destruction. :-( That could be used to feed all that are hungry in the world. Paix, mon ami.


Could we though? I have heard many times that there is no way this planet could make enough food to feed everyone the way N. Americans eat. It would take a radical and extreme culture shift for us N. Americans. Consume less, not have everything were have become so accustomed to.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Could we though? I have heard many times that there is no way this planet could make enough food to feed everyone the way N. Americans eat. It would take a radical and extreme culture shift for us N. Americans. Consume less, not have everything were have become so accustomed to.


There is already more than enough food for everyone on the planet. It's a matter of giving it away for free on a permanent basis that is difficult to sustain.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Mueller, Strzok & the rest of the lying FBI...

FBI Agent Who Exchanged Anti-Trump, Pro-Hillary Messages Was Also Key Investigator for Russian "Collusion" Probe, As Well As... Hillary Clinton Email Investigation



> Oh, and he was allegedly having an affair with an FBI lawyer who worked for Andrew McCabe.
> 
> Andrew McCabe's wife ran for political office in Virginia, and took donations from Hillary bagman Terry McAuliffe during her race. McCabe decided that this did not constitute any conflict of interest and insisted on keeping himself central in the email investigation.
> 
> I guess McCabe knew the right people to put on his pet investigation. People you can trust -- goodfellas.


Update: FBI Agent Fired from Mueller's Team, Caught Expressing Anti-Trump, Pro-Hillary Statements with Alleged Mistress, Not Only Interviewed Key Figures in His Hillary Email Investigation, But Also... Michael Flynn



> So he interviews Hillary cronies and finds they did nothing wrong.
> 
> Then he also interviews Michael Flynn and comes away with a perjury charge.
> 
> One could suspect this FBI agent, now removed from Mueller's team for political bias, might have been interested in finding a crime to hit the Trump team with and not so interested in finding evidence of lying among Hillary's minions.


CNN Reports That Trump-Bashing FBI Agent Strzok Was Responsible for "Softening" Comey's Language on Hillary Emails from "Gross Negligence" (Triggering Criminal Culpability) to "Extremely Careless" (Not So Triggering) And... More

(from the Clinton News Network?) :yikes:

Rep. Devin Nunes Explodes At DOJ Over Strzok; Threatens Contempt 



> _House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes has issued an angry demand to the FBI and Department of Justice to explain why they kept the committee in the dark over the reason Special Counsel Robert Mueller kicked a key supervising FBI agent off the Trump-Russia investigation. _​


Hillary Aides Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin Lied In Interviews With Peter Strzok But, Get This, Neither of Them Were Charged With Any Crime



> _The FBI agent who was fired from Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation team for sending anti-Donald Trump text messages conducted the interviews with two Hillary Clinton aides accused of giving false statements about what they knew of the former secretary of state’s private email server.
> 
> Neither of the Clinton associates, Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin, faced legal consequences for their misleading statements, which they made in interviews last year with former FBI section chief Peter Strzok._​


Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud'



> A top prosecutor who is now a deputy for Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe praised outgoing acting Attorney General Sally Yates after she was fired in January by President Trump for refusing to defend his controversial travel ban.
> 
> The email, obtained by Judicial Watch through a federal lawsuit, shows that on the night of Jan. 30, Andrew Weissmann wrote to Yates under the subject line, “I am so proud.”
> 
> He continued, “And in awe. Thank you so much. All my deepest respects.”


Fire. Mueller. Now.

Mueller's FBI Will Never Recover Its Good Name



> Robert Mueller just fired a senior FBI agent for openly twittering against POTUS Trump. But if Mr. Mueller imagines that firing one guy will restore his shredded credibility to the public, fuggedaboudit. The unprecedented witch-hunt against a newly elected Donald Trump will remain green in the public memory for years to come. *The FBI and DOJ will therefore have to live with a huge loss of public credibility. The IRS will never recover among Trump voters.*


M'bold.

Yep.


----------



## Dr.G.

From the FDR memorial in Washington, DC. How America needs a president of his stature right now.


----------



## Macfury

Why is that presented as an either/or?


----------



## eMacMan

Nailed her. BPI


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the pervy left s'more!

This, from that paragon of...truth:

Lena Dunham: ‘I warned the Clinton campaign Weinstein was a rapist’ … and she should know, right?



> Isn’t this the same Lena who molested her little sister, lied about a college rape, backed down after she defended a co-worker against rape allegations and just got called a racist by a writer for her feminist web site?.


The same.

More:

“Everybody Knew”: Leftist Media Power Led to Sex Abuses



> "Everybody f____g knew," a top Hollywood screenwriter wrote of Harvey Weinstein. "Everybody knew" about Matt Lauer at NBC, Variety reports, and it "wasn’t even considered a secret." "Every female in the press corps knew that, right, don’t get in elevator with him," ABC's Cokie Roberts said of Rep. Conyers.
> 
> Everybody knew.


More:



> Hollywood, the media and the Democrats have been preaching to us about sexism and feminism for generations. Meanwhile behind the cameras and the chambers, an assault spree was in progress.
> 
> And everybody knew.


Yet nobody could muster criticism of their Prog overlords.

Good read.

Related:

Matt Lauer’s office sexcapades known to media elites, who roared with laughter over lewd jokes at 2008 ‘roast’



> Embattled NBC executives have been falling over themselves, insisting they had no idea about Matt Lauer’s pervy past. But if anyone doubts that New York’s media elite was aware of Lauer’s reputation, they should look no further than a top-secret “roast” of Lauer that took place in October 2008.
> 
> The notorious event ─ now legendary in New York media circles ─ pushed the outer limits of sexist, racist, homophobic and obscene jokes — and left little doubt that Lauer’s colleagues knew NBC’s biggest star had a troubled marriage and a wandering eye.
> 
> Last week, NBC’s own Joe Scarborough, who attended the roast but said he left early, feeling uncomfortable, brought it up on “Morning Joe.” Lauer’s peccadillos, he said, were not just known about. At the roast, they were celebrated.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Further on Mueller, Strzok & the rest of the lying FBI...
> 
> FBI Agent Who Exchanged Anti-Trump, Pro-Hillary Messages Was Also Key Investigator for Russian "Collusion" Probe, As Well As... Hillary Clinton Email Investigation


I do get a sardonic kick out of all the folks who fear for the reputation of the FBI, and for all those on the Right who are just now getting around to giving it a public kick in the balls, when the folks on the Left have known for a long, long time that the FBI is just as evil an entity as the CIA, the NSA, etc. The fact that the FBI is now targeting a white politician on the "Left" (term used very loosely) gets your juices flowin'. But all the folk of coloured, all the folks who dared to thing differently, none of them were worth your anti-FBI glee, now, were they? 


A Huey P. Newton Story - Actions - COINTELPRO | PBS
The FBI COINTELPRO Program and the Fred Hampton Assassination | Huffington Post
COINTELPRO | DemocracyNow!
and for their very sanitized perspective, COINTELPRO | U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation


----------



## FeXL

Which is why you've posted on it precisely how many times in the past?



CubaMark said:


> ...when the folks on the Left have known for a long, long time that the FBI is just as evil an entity as the CIA, the NSA, etc.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Which is why you've posted on it precisely how many times in the past?


Within ehMac, and specific to COINTELPRO? Looks like last time was ten years ago, 2007. Why? What does that have to do with anything? More distraction on your part. Ho-hum. XX)


----------



## CubaMark

_Meanwhile, the Groper-in-Chief has now gone all-in with his support of the alleged child molester Roy Moore. For one example of the mentality of the folks who support this POS, check out his campaign spokesperson:_

*If You Want to Watch Something Bananas, Check Out This Interview With Roy Moore's Campaign Spokesperson*

Roy Moore now has Donald Trump’s full endorsement, as the president has walked himself back from initial statements about how a child molester shouldn’t run for Senate. Of course he should! Because it keeps Doug Jones, a Democrat, out of office! This is one of the main talking points for Moore’s campaign spokesperson, Jane Porter, but it’s not the only one.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb0JHME4dsg[/ame]



Porter appeared on CNN’s New Day across from reporter Poppy Harlow on Tuesday morning to discuss Trump’s tweets about his Moore support. At about minute two in the video above, Porter criticizes his opponent, Jones, but Harlow insists they discuss the numerous women who have accused Moore of approaching them as teens, specifically Leigh Corfman, who says she was molested by Moore as a 14-year-old.

Porter wonders how anyone could be taken in by Corfman’s “Academy Award performance.” When asked directly if she believed any of Corfman’s story, Porter replied, “I don’t believe her at all!” She also wants us to consider all the women who have not accused Roy Moore of sexually assaulting them as children.

“We need to make it clear that there’s a group of non-accusers, that have not accused the judge of any sexual misconduct or anything illegal,” Porter says, her meaning unclear. I guess if you just asked most women in Alabama if Roy Moore touched them as children, they’d say no, and sadly that does seem like it might be enough for most Alabama voters.
(Jezebel)​


----------



## Macfury

Who here has been a major supporter of the FBI?



CubaMark said:


> I do get a sardonic kick out of all the folks who fear for the reputation of the FBI, and for all those on the Right who are just now getting around to giving it a public kick in the balls, when the folks on the Left have known for a long, long time that the FBI is just as evil an entity as the CIA, the NSA, etc. The fact that the FBI is now targeting a white politician on the "Left" (term used very loosely) gets your juices flowin'. But all the folk of coloured, all the folks who dared to thing differently, none of them were worth your anti-FBI glee, now, were they?


----------



## Macfury

What difference does it make to you, CM? You said all of the US pols are bad juju!



CubaMark said:


> _Meanwhile, the Groper-in-Chief has now gone all-in with his support of the alleged child molester Roy Moore. For one example of the mentality of the folks who support this POS, check out his campaign spokesperson:_


----------



## eMacMan

Even as Hiliary tries to deflect prying eyes away from the Uranium 1 contributions to the Clinton Foundation and the treason that implies, this was also her baby. Lock her up and toss the key. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-blamed-libyan-slave-trade-032200388.html

If Trump continues the insane middle east policies then lock him up as well!


----------



## FeXL

Ten years & approx 10,000 posts ago.

Thank you. You've made my point for me...



CubaMark said:


> Within ehMac, and specific to COINTELPRO? Looks like last time was ten years ago, 2007. Why? What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Ten years & approx 10,000 posts ago.
> 
> Thank you. You've made my point for me...


Sigh. Where's the FeXL interpreter? Once again, he's communicating on a plane inaccessible to most humans.


----------



## FeXL

First, no argument. Time for you to step up.

Second, anything of concern to you has been mentioned in dozens, if not hundreds, of your posts over the past 10 years. A single mention in 10 years? Barely blips the radar. If this was truly an issue for you & your "Gawd, I've known about that for years" claim, you'd have been all over it...

Third, this has nothing to do with anybody's race, politics, sex, religion, dick size or anything else. Get over yourself.



CubaMark said:


> Sigh. Where's the FeXL interpreter? Once again, he's communicating on a plane inaccessible to most humans.


----------



## CubaMark

The ridiculous Trump Presidency is the topic of the new collaboration between Blondie and Joan Jett (*NSFW*):

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI2z27Ufy8k[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

When you lose Debbie Harry, what have you got left?...

Miss the cutting edge Blondie of _Plastic Letters_.


----------



## FeXL

Literally Hitler!!!

Obama invokes Hitler's rise in stark warning to America



> Barack Obama has warned of the fragility of American democracy, making reference to the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
> 
> Speaking during a question and answer session at the Economic Club of Chicago on Tuesday, the former US president warned against growing nativism in America.
> 
> “*We have to tend to this garden of democracy or else things could fall apart quickly*,” Mr Obama said.


M'bold.

We already did, Barry. We didn't elect Bill's wife...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Did I ever tell you people how much pleasure saying that gives me?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> The ridiculous Trump Presidency is the topic of the new collaboration between Blondie and Joan Jett (*NSFW*):
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI2z27Ufy8k[/ame]




Awesome!


----------



## Dr.G.

Since Russia will not be allowed to participate in the 2018 Winter Olympics, Pres. Trump has invited them to take part in the 2018 Midterm Elections in November.


----------



## FeXL

He may as well. That way the Clinton News Network & all the other Prog MSM that have been unable to link Trump's election to the Russkies prior to this will actually have a story... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Dr.G. said:


> Since Russia will not be allowed to participate in the 2018 Winter Olympics, Pres. Trump has invited them to take part in the 2018 Midterm Elections in November.


----------



## Dr.G.

They are going to win at least one gold medal for throwing the election to Trump-supporting Republicans in 2018. tptptptp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Since Russia will not be allowed to participate in the 2018 Winter Olympics, Pres. Trump has invited them to take part in the 2018 Midterm Elections in November.




You, sir, win the Internet!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> You, sir, win the Internet!


:clap::clap:


----------



## SINC

Yep, pretty much . . .


----------



## CubaMark

(Duplicate)


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Yep, pretty much . . .


So, SINC, would you rather that transgender females, who still have guy parts, who self-identify as female, who pass as female in their personal and professional lives, nonetheless should use male washrooms? I'm surprised you're not calling for separate bathrooms for "the gays" 

What exactly is it that you social conservatives think goes on in public washrooms, anyway? I've been in many public washrooms in my half-century on this rock, and as far as I can tell, it's just a lot of pooping and pissing. Well, that and the occasional "wide stance Republican" getting his jollies. :lmao:

Much ado about nothing. Just distraction meant to get cranky old white men's dander up!


----------



## Rps

Or....... we could actually design washrooms that are neither male or female..... just a washroom. Not sure how many sporting events you go to but have you noticed that there is always a huge lineup outside the “ladies”...... maybe we are at a stage where we can just have washrooms and both sexes can use them.....we do at home after all.


----------



## CubaMark

_Meanwhile, south of the border... an interesting development, just as Alabamans are about to go to the polls to choose between a pro-choice Democrat and an alleged child molester Republican who has stated that the Constitutional amendments after the 10th are what's wrong with America. And for all of those in here who complained about voter fraud, it would be lovely if you'd give as much attention to gerrymandering and other dirty tricks, like this one:_

*Alabama Demands Voter ID–Then Closes Driver’s License Offices In Black Counties*

What happens when a state with a tough voter ID law suddenly makes it much harder for minorities to get driver’s licenses? We are about to find out in Alabama.

Facing a budget crisis, Alabama has shuttered 31 driver’s license offices, many of them in counties with a high proportion of black residents. Coming after the state recently put into effect a tougher voter ID law, the closures will cut off access — particularly for minorities — to one of the few types of IDs accepted.

According to a tally by AL.com columnist John Archibald, eight of the 10 Alabama counties with the highest percentage of non-white registered voters saw their driver’s license offices closed.

“Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one,” Archibald wrote.

Archibald also noted that many of the counties where offices were closed also leaned Democrat.

“But maybe it’s not racial at all, right? Maybe it’s just political. And let’s face it, it may not be either.” he wrote. “But no matter the intent, the consequence is the same.”

(TalkingPointsMemo)​


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, I think a Pro-Choice Democrat has about as much chance of winning Alabama as a snow balls chance in Hell. Nested in this is the ultra conservative bible as literal voting population who see nothing “biblically” wrong with the current Republican ( and Alabama is about as red as you can get ) candidate.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, it's all a big f'ing conspiracy to "hold the black man down", idn't it.

Let's look at another pertinent quote, shall we?



> *The voter ID law passed in 2011* — which tightened previous ID requirements –includes driver’s licenses on a very short list of government-issued photo IDs accepted in order to vote in the state. If a resident does not have the proper ID he or she must get two poll officials to vouch for his or her identity. *Additionally, residents without photo ID can apply for a free state photo ID.* The law was put into effect in 2014.


So, via the first bold, the law is 6 years old & suddenly, _suddenly_, it becomes an issue. Cry me a river.

In addition, according to the second bold, free ID is available to everyone who wants it, for 3 years now.

<snort>

Try harder, CM...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Yeah, it's all a big f'ing conspiracy to "hold the black man down", idn't it.
> 
> Let's look at another pertinent quote, shall we?
> 
> So, via the first bold, the law is 6 years old & suddenly, _suddenly_, it becomes an issue. Cry me a river.
> 
> In addition, according to the second bold, free ID is available to everyone who wants it, for 3 years now.
> 
> <snort>
> 
> Try harder, CM...


As usual, you see what you want to see, and dismiss the rest.

The issue is _accessibility_:



> Before Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R) signed the voter ID legislation, the ACLU-Alabama said it would have “*a disproportionate negative impact on minority voters,” noting that 62 percent of black Alabama residents depend on public transport, compared to 34 percent of whites.*
> 
> Challenges to voter ID laws are being litigated across the country, with *a Texas case *expected to end up in the Supreme Court. In that case, the appeals court ruled that *the Texas law violated the Voting Rights Act because it had a discriminatory effect on minority voters.*
> 
> A Department of Justice official explained in 2014 that the agency challenged the Texas law, but not the Alabama law, because *at the time only Texas’ law required some residents to drive hundreds of miles to attain the proper ID*.


----------



## CubaMark

_And that amazing, wonderful, Republican tax plan that they passed in the dead of night to give rich folks a tax break on their private jets, among other things?_

*Treasury admits tax plan won't pay for itself*

The U.S. Treasury Department today released a one-page analysis of the GOP's proposed tax reform plan.

Bottom line: The report acknowledges that the tax plan will not pay for itself via increased economic growth, despite Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin having regularly made such a claim. Instead, getting into the black would require both the tax plan and "a combination of regulatory reform, infrastructure development, and welfare reform."

Moreover, the analysis uses the White House's previous economic growth estimates (made before the tax plan was written) and works its way backwards into the math, rather than analyzing how the actual tax plan would affect economic growth.

The back story: Mnuchin spent months talking about a detailed Treasury analysis of the GOP tax plans, but the NY Times reported in late November that no such analysis actually existed.

Today's release is an apparent remedy, although a single page feels pretty skimpy for an analysis that is supposed to help justify the most significant tax code changes since 1986.
(Axios)​


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> _And that amazing, wonderful, Republican tax plan that they passed in the dead of night to give rich folks a tax break on their private jets, among other things?_
> 
> *Treasury admits tax plan won't pay for itself*
> 
> The U.S. Treasury Department today released a one-page analysis of the GOP's proposed tax reform plan.
> 
> Bottom line: The report acknowledges that the tax plan will not pay for itself via increased economic growth, despite Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin having regularly made such a claim. Instead, getting into the black would require both the tax plan and "a combination of regulatory reform, infrastructure development, and welfare reform."
> 
> Moreover, the analysis uses the White House's previous economic growth estimates (made before the tax plan was written) and works its way backwards into the math, rather than analyzing how the actual tax plan would affect economic growth.
> 
> The back story: Mnuchin spent months talking about a detailed Treasury analysis of the GOP tax plans, but the NY Times reported in late November that no such analysis actually existed.
> 
> Today's release is an apparent remedy, although a single page feels pretty skimpy for an analysis that is supposed to help justify the most significant tax code changes since 1986.
> (Axios)​


Did I miss something? To my knowledge the plan has not been passed. What we have are unreconciled bills. Until the House and the Senate agree to a unified bill it can’t be made law......or at least that is my understanding, which might be fun to watch once they actually read the thing they voted on......2018 is a mid-term for many GOPs


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> _And that amazing, wonderful, Republican tax plan that they passed in the dead of night to give rich folks a tax break on their private jets, among other things?_
> 
> *Treasury admits tax plan won't pay for itself*
> 
> The U.S. Treasury Department today released a one-page analysis of the GOP's proposed tax reform plan.
> 
> Bottom line: The report acknowledges that the tax plan will not pay for itself via increased economic growth, despite Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin having regularly made such a claim. Instead, getting into the black would require both the tax plan and "a combination of regulatory reform, infrastructure development, and welfare reform."
> 
> Moreover, the analysis uses the White House's previous economic growth estimates (made before the tax plan was written) and works its way backwards into the math, rather than analyzing how the actual tax plan would affect economic growth.
> 
> The back story: Mnuchin spent months talking about a detailed Treasury analysis of the GOP tax plans, but the NY Times reported in late November that no such analysis actually existed.
> 
> Today's release is an apparent remedy, although a single page feels pretty skimpy for an analysis that is supposed to help justify the most significant tax code changes since 1986.
> (Axios)​


And on the "brighter" side of the story ...................

https://www.ft.com/content/78bba368-876e-41a4-b79b-01d0b62efb85


----------



## FeXL

As usual, yer trying to make a mountain out of an f'ing molehill.

These black folk got a phone? Call for an ID. No phone? Write a letter. Can't write? Get one of the relatives to write a letter. Surely one of the kids has an eddication.

In both cases above, nobody even has to leave their homes. How's _that_ for accessibility? Don't get any better'n that.

edit:

In addition, as I noted in my OP, these fine black folk have had 6 years to deal with voter ID. It's not like any of this was sprung on them last minute like.



CubaMark said:


> As usual, you see what you want to see, and dismiss the rest.
> 
> The issue is _accessibility_:


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Did I miss something? To my knowledge the plan has not been passed. What we have are unreconciled bills. Until the House and the Senate agree to a unified bill it can’t be made law......or at least that is my understanding, which might be fun to watch once they actually read the thing they voted on......2018 is a mid-term for many GOPs


What is interesting is that both houses of Congress are pushing for things that Pres. Trump does not want included in the one bill that will come to his desk for his signature. He feels that certain things will rile his core base. We shall see.


----------



## FeXL

Unlike, say, that amazing, wunnerful, Democratic health care plan that had to be passed in order to find out what was in it?

Yer slip is showing again...



CubaMark said:


> And that amazing, wonderful, Republican tax plan that they passed in the dead of night to give rich folks a tax break on their private jets, among other things?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Unlike, say, that amazing, wunnerful, Democratic health care plan that had to be passed in order to find out what was in it?
> 
> Yer slip is showing again...


You'd have to be pretty far up my skirt to see it, you pervert! :yikes:

And I don't recall having endorsed the Democratic health care plan. Are you making assumptions again?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Did I miss something? To my knowledge the plan has not been passed. What we have are unreconciled bills. Until the House and the Senate agree to a unified bill it can’t be made law......or at least that is my understanding, which might be fun to watch once they actually read the thing they voted on......2018 is a mid-term for many GOPs


Exactly.


----------



## FeXL

On you, I can see it protruding from the legs of your pants & spilling out onto your sneakers.

And I don't recall you criticizing Pelosi because she said the bill needed to be passed in order to see what was in it, either. If Trump had tried that you'd have screamed blue murder & written 10 pages proclaiming your outrage.

A wrong is a wrong no matter what party is presenting it. Once again, your double standards rear their ugly head.



CubaMark said:


> You'd have to be pretty far up my skirt to see it, you pervert! :yikes:
> 
> And I don't recall having endorsed the Democratic health care plan. Are you making assumptions again?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> These black folk got a phone? Call for an ID. No phone? Write a letter. Can't write? Get one of the relatives to write a letter. Surely one of the kids has an eddication.
> 
> In both cases above, nobody even has to leave their homes. How's _that_ for accessibility? Don't get any better'n that.


Source for your imaginary process to obtain an Alabama *photo* ID?

Here's the only one I could find - and it involves bringing physical documents and your physical person into a Dept. of Motor Vehicles (DMV) office, even for a non-Driver ID.

Care to retract your assertion that "Black folk" don't need to actually transport themselves somewhere in order to get an ID, or are you going to stick to your guns?


----------



## FeXL

It doesn't matter if it used to take a trip to the f'ing Moon and now it's Saturn.

6 years ago ID's were required. That's more than enough time for even your average Prog to figger it out.

This isn't a "racist, targeted" action any more than closing down a gas station in a weak economy is.

Get over yourself. There are actually important issues you could be dealing with here. Say, f'rinstance, your refusal to admit that you are wrong on Tesla grants, renewable energy subsidies, Globull Warming & socialism.

That'd be a start...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah, blah-blah-blah...


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs it when a Prog gets its comeuppance...

James Woods Destroys Chelsea Handler For Attacking Sarah Sanders



> Actor James Woods mocked comedian Chelsea Handler on Twitter Saturday, posting a video in which she is urinated on, in response to her frequent and personal attacks on White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders.


----------



## FeXL

Article is a year old but relevant today.

Startling Look At How Much Money Food Stamp Recipients Spend On Junk Food



> A new study just released by the USDA, offers a very detailed look at exactly how participants in the "Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program" (SNAP, aka Food Stamps) spend their taxpayer-funded subsidies. Unfortunately for taxpayers, the amount of money spent on soft drinks and other unnecessary junk foods/drinks is fairly staggering. But, we suppose it's a nice taxpayer funded subsidy for the soda industry...so score one for Warren Buffett and the Coca Cola lobbyists.
> 
> Per the study, nearly $360mm, or 5.4% of the $6.6BN of food expenditures made by SNAP recipients, is spent on soft drinks alone. In fact, soft drinks represent the single largest "commodity" purchased by SNAP participants with $100mm more spent on sodas than milk and $150mm more than beef.


Oh, SNAP!!!


----------



## FeXL

Well, this is curious. Not a single post from the Progs herein about the Muslim who attempted to blow up the New York Port Authority yesterday. If this had been ****** with an AR, they'd have been all over it.

New York City police responding to reports of explosion in Manhattan



> _Akayed Ullah, 27, set off the “effectively low tech device” in a subway passageway just before 7:30 a.m., New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said in a news conference. Ullah suffered burns and wounds to his body and appeared to be the only person seriously injured in the pipe bomb explosion, authorities said. At least three other people suffered injuries that were not life threatening._​


Good thing he was a dumb terrorist.

But wait! His family is now complaining about how this case has been handled. Perhaps they are disappointed he wasn't made a martyr...

Family Of Alleged Port Authority Terrorist ‘Outraged’ Over Police Behavior



> Ullah reportedly told investigators that he chose the location because of the Christmas-themed posters that hang on the walls near the Times Square subway station.
> 
> *An immigrant from Bangladesh, Ullah entered the United States in 2011 through extended family chain migration.* Once in the country, Ullah worked as an electrician and reportedly became radicalized through Islamic State propaganda.


M'bold.

Further on that note:

Port Authority Terrorist Came to US on Immigrant Visa Under Obama



> Bur I thought we had procedures that made this virtually impossible.


And:

Quick Update: Port Authority Terrorist Came On a Chain Migration Visa



> Someone was getting a green card. So, the sibling of that person also got a visa. And then this terrorist, who was under 21 at the time, got what amounts to be a "nephew visa."


I look forward to the left denouncing the actions of this immigrant Muslim terrorist and speculating as to what could have been done to avoid the bombing attempt...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> It doesn't matter if it used to take a trip to the f'ing Moon and now it's Saturn.


Oh, I think you're exaggerating a wee bit here. The biggest challenge of these kinds of trips is up-front: getting out of the Earth's gravity well. There is no specific number here, since it depends entirely on the mass of the object leaving the Earth's surface. The formula for calculating it is:







. Once you're out of the gravity well, the energy requirements are reduced significantly, though not entirely. Getting to the Moon is one thing: Saturn, simply for the enormous distance involved, is quite another. Depending, of course, on how quickly you'd like to reach each body.



FeXL said:


> 6 years ago ID's were required. That's more than enough time for even your average Prog to figger it out.


Actually:

_The voter ID law passed in 2011 — which tightened previous ID requirements –includes driver’s licenses on *a very short list of government-issued photo IDs* accepted in order to vote in the state. If a resident does not have the proper ID he or she must get two poll officials to vouch for his or her identity. Additionally, residents without photo ID can apply for a free state photo ID. The law was put into effect in 2014._​
Still, three years. But like most humans, I imagine folks in Alabama don't even bother thinking about what it takes to cast a vote until an election comes around. And that's the issue here: regardless of when the rules changed, the Republican government shut down the DMV offices where folks have to physically appear (not write a letter, or make a phone call, as you so dismissively claimed), just as the election is upon them. A delay of a few weeks until post-election would have served the almighty democracy that the US of A claims to stand for unconditionally. The timing is extremely suspect.



FeXL said:


> This isn't a "racist, targeted" action any more than closing down a gas station in a weak economy is.


No. A weak economy closing down a gas station is a private economic business issue. Closing a government office that facilitates the democratic process is an entirely political and seemingly racial act. I'm not the only one who sees it this way, regardless of how stridently you wish to paint me as the only one on that side of the issue.



FeXL said:


> Get over yourself. There are actually important issues you could be dealing with here.


*Yes! Such as:*

increasing evidence of Trump campaign team / family member contacts with the Russians?
the Republican tax plan that will lead to a further impoverishment of the middle class to the benefit of the top 3%?
mounting pressure on the Groper-in-Chief to step down in the face of claims he sexually assaulted several women?
the dawning realization that a man-child has the nuclear codes and seems to enjoy provoking international adversaries?
_ad nauseum_



FeXL said:


> Say, f'rinstance, your refusal to admit that you are wrong on Tesla grants, renewable energy subsidies, Globull Warming & socialism.



On the Tesla grants, MF finally coughed up a number: $7500. No sources, no explanation, just expected to take it at face value. Waiting for exposition.
On renewable energy subsidies: Your per-unit argument is interesting, and I need to find time to explore it. I maintain, however, that I am in favour of government subsidizing alternative energy technologies in an effort to move away from massively polluting fossil fuel energy production, since the fossil fuel fan community seems unable to enter a minus sign when it comes to environmental costs of extraction, refining and burning for energy. Both sides will always attempt to portray their position in the best light: I'd like to see actual numbers and actual discussions that are as unbiased as possible.
Global warming: to think that human beings have had no impact on the global climate is unreasonable. You like to jump on matters of data correction / interpretation that you believe justifies your beliefs, but you are in the vast minority. I'm not a climate scientist (and neither are you).
Socialism: Uh-huh. Point me to an example of the enormous successes of capitalism, and then we can begin to have a debate.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Actually:
> 
> _The voter ID law passed in 2011 — which tightened previous ID requirements –includes driver’s licenses on *a very short list of government-issued photo IDs* accepted in order to vote in the state. If a resident does not have the proper ID he or she must get two poll officials to vouch for his or her identity. Additionally, residents without photo ID can apply for a free state photo ID. The law was put into effect in 2014._​
> Still, three years. But like most humans, I imagine folks in Alabama don't even bother thinking about what it takes to cast a vote until an election comes around. And that's the issue here: regardless of when the rules changed, the Republican government shut down the DMV offices where folks have to physically appear (not write a letter, or make a phone call, as you so dismissively claimed), just as the election is upon them. A delay of a few weeks until post-election would have served the almighty democracy that the US of A claims to stand for unconditionally. The timing is extremely suspect.


Actually:

You can get voter ID in every county at the Board of Registrars Office.

Board of Registrars: All Counties | Alabama Secretary of State



CubaMark said:


> [*]increasing evidence of Trump campaign team / family member contacts with the Russians?


What is the evidence that has been found--and why is it illegal to contact Russians?



CubaMark said:


> [*]the Republican tax plan that will lead to a further impoverishment of the middle class to the benefit of the top 3%?


Everyone should benefit from a tax cut. I think they all do. I have nothing against the top 3%.



CubaMark said:


> [*]mounting pressure on the Groper-in-Chief to step down in the face of claims he sexually assaulted several women?


You don't have to step down over claims. Even Bill Clinton didn't do that--and the people loved him!



CubaMark said:


> [*]the dawning realization that a man-child has the nuclear codes and seems to enjoy provoking international adversaries?


You may be more the Neville Chamberlain type, CM. No accounting for tastes.



CubaMark said:


> [*]On the Tesla grants, MF finally coughed up a number: $7500. No sources, no explanation, just expected to take it at face value. Waiting for exposition.


I "coughed it up" immediately. Certainly you were aware of the $7,500 per vehicle subsidy offered by the US federal government.



CubaMark said:


> [*]On renewable energy subsidies: Your per-unit argument is interesting, and I need to find time to explore it. I maintain, however, that I am in favour of government subsidizing alternative energy technologies in an effort to move away from massively polluting fossil fuel energy production, since the fossil fuel fan community seems unable to enter a minus sign when it comes to environmental costs of extraction, refining and burning for energy. Both sides will always attempt to portray their position in the best light: I'd like to see actual numbers and actual discussions that are as unbiased as possible.


You need to see the numbers a fourth time? The first three times were not enough? Yeah, we get it that you think "green" energy "solutions" are superior. That has nothing to to do with the fact that green energy is more heavily subsidized than fossil fuels.



CubaMark said:


> [[*]Global warming: to think that human beings have had no impact on the global climate is unreasonable. You like to jump on matters of data correction / interpretation that you believe justifies your beliefs, but you are in the vast minority. I'm not a climate scientist (and neither are you).


Why drag out that tired old argument again? Almost everybody believes that everything impacts everything else to a small degree. The question is whether that effect is worth addressing. And why would you believe that people who believe the effect would be negligible or manageable are in the minority?



CubaMark said:


> [*]Socialism: Uh-huh. Point me to an example of the enormous successes of capitalism, and then we can begin to have a debate.


All I need to see is photos of Havana.



CubaMark said:


> [*]ad nauseum


ad _nauseam_


----------



## FeXL

Only to you Prog conspiracy theorists that see a ghost behind every bale of cotton. BOOO!!!



CubaMark said:


> The timing is extremely suspect.


blah, blah-blah, blah blah.

And likely also an economic issue.

'Sides, seeing as these are white minority counties, shouldn't you be preaching for the racism against ******?

And no, yer not the only one. It all the other kooks & whackos, too.



CubaMark said:


> No. A weak economy closing down a gas station is a private economic business issue. Closing a government office that facilitates the democratic process is an entirely political and seemingly racial act. I'm not the only one who sees it this way, regardless of how stridently you wish to paint me as the only one on that side of the issue.


Still no evidence. Lottsa unsubstantiated conjecture & bull$h!t from the left & RINO's, tho.



CubaMark said:


> [*]increasing evidence of Trump campaign team / family member contacts with the Russians?


As noted above, hasn't been passed.



CubaMark said:


> [*]the Republican tax plan that will lead to a further impoverishment of the middle class to the benefit of the top 3%?


From whom? The Party of Gropers? The Dems? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That's rich...



CubaMark said:


> [*]mounting pressure on the Groper-in-Chief to step down in the face of claims he sexually assaulted several women?


Really? Man-child? Have you ever seen Canada's PM?

And really? Provoking the Phat Guy? Just who is making the threats? Ain't Trump.



CubaMark said:


> [*]the dawning realization that a man-child has the nuclear codes and seems to enjoy provoking international adversaries?


No $h!t...



CubaMark said:


> [*]_ad nauseum_


Asked. Answered. Numerous times in that thread by yours truly. Billions of $$$. Go back & read.



CubaMark said:


> [*]On the Tesla grants, MF finally coughed up a number: $7500.


I've been using that same argument on that same thread for years now. Why is it that you are only now reading it? It's not news to regular readers of the thread.

And, there's nothing to explore. The math has been done for you. Go read the thread.



CubaMark said:


> [*]On renewable energy subsidies: Your per-unit argument is interesting, and I need to find time to explore it.


I don't care what you maintain. Nearly every one of your claims on that thread have been debunked.



CubaMark said:


> I maintain...


CO2 is _not_ pollution.

And, again, have you not read of the toxic materials used to produce solar panels? Same thread.



CubaMark said:


> ...massively polluting fossil fuel energy production, since the fossil fuel fan community seems unable to enter a minus sign when it comes to environmental costs of extraction, refining and burning for energy.


The impact that humans have had on the impact of global climate is, for all intents & purposes, immeasurable.

Tell me precisely how 4% of the movement from ~3 parts per ten thousand of atmospheric CO2 to ~4 parts per ten thousand of atmospheric CO2 changes anything. Especially in the face of evidence that during the Paleozoic atmospheric CO2 concentrations were 70 parts per ten thousand and the planet not only didn't burn up but saw the dawn & proliferation of calcium carbonate encased fauna.



CubaMark said:


> [*]Global warming: to think that human beings have had no impact on the global climate is unreasonable.


Unlike sociology, science is _not_ decided by a show of hands.



CubaMark said:


> ...like to jump on matters of data correction / interpretation that you believe justifies your beliefs, but you are in the vast minority.


Call to authority. Logical fallacy.



CubaMark said:


> I'm not a climate scientist (and neither are you).


So, a hunnert million dead bodies (a very conservative number in some circles) in a century of socialism is considered a success?

That's some twisted baseline...



CubaMark said:


> [*]Socialism: Uh-huh. Point me to an example of the enormous successes of capitalism, and then we can begin to have a debate.


----------



## Rps

Okay, so now I see we are in a pissing contest.... let’s get real here.... there are indeed other forms of ID that a voter can get for registration if they choose to.....and not too long ago we had a similar issue under Harper as to what constitutes valid voter ID.

An idiot tried to blow themselves and others up but failed.....and it didn’t matter which party was in power he had family connections and idiots are idiots...... Humans do impact on the globe and logically climate....go to Haiti see what’s happened there on one side of the island where they have torn up all the trees as opposed to the Dominican Republic. Presidents do self interest and sometimes ill advised things....there is no law that states an anus cannot become president of the U.S.....Lord knows we’ve had our share here..... electric cars are not the answer....just what do you do with the batteries and making electricity is and has never ever been green....no matter what your view on welfare and the system sometimes people just need a helping hand.....someday you and I will need one too.....by spending more money on defense does not make a country safer.....that money can be used better elsewhere I’m sure.....and finally you don’t create wealth by having governments spending tonnes of money hiring civil servants....okay, I’m done ...have at it.


----------



## CubaMark

Nothing suspicious about this, eh? :yikes:

*Alabama court gives last-minute order that could impede recount procedure*
*Voting rights experts denounced the ruling that gives election officials permission not
to preserve electronic ballot records as a blow to transparency*

Controversy swirled over the mechanics of the Alabama Senate election after the state supreme court intervened at the eleventh hour to give election officials a green light not to preserve electronic ballot records that could form the basis of a recount.

A court in Montgomery, the state capital, issued an injunction on Monday afternoon ordering election officials around the state to preserve digital images of the ballots cast by Alabama voters in the hard-fought contest between controversial Republican Roy Moore and Democrat Doug Jones.

But the supreme court stayed that injunction almost immediately following a protest lodged by Alabama’s chief election official, secretary of state John Merrill. Voting rights experts denounced the ruling as a blow to transparency in a state that already has a flawed vote recount procedure and an occasionally checkered history of questionable election outcomes that the state’s senior officials and courts have allowed to go unchallenged. “There’s no legitimate reason not to preserve ballot images,” said Christopher Sautter, a veteran Washington election lawyer who helped the plaintiffs in the case. “It’s neither expensive nor inconvenient. It amounts to flipping a switch.”

Priscilla Duncan, the lead plaintiff in the case, noted with some amazement that the secretary of state’s protest was lodged with the supreme court at 4.38pm and the justices came back with their ruling at 5.18pm.“It’s just unbelievable that they examined the pleadings and got eight judges to concur in half an hour on a Monday afternoon,” she said.

“We have reason to believe those machines can be compromised. Whether intentionally or through error, there can be some false results, and there have been some tests around the country where there have been some rather sizeable discrepancies.” Theoretically, election officials could go back to the paper ballots as cast by the voters and recount them by hand – a method that many voting rights advocates believe to be the most reliable.

But Alabama law does not provide for such manual recounts, only a machine recount of the digital images that are taken at the time each ballot is cast. If those images are then destroyed, there is no easy way to verify that they were read and counted correctly.

“I don’t understand why the state does not want to preserve them. That doesn’t make sense,” said Marian Schneider of the national advocacy group Verified Voting. “Jurisdictions should have processes in place for ordinary citizens… to review election documents and verify that results came out the way they should have.”
(The Guardian UK)​


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Okay, so now I see we are in a pissing contest...


How so?



Rps said:


> ...there are indeed other forms of ID that a voter can get for registration if they choose to.....


But it's a giant conspiracy to hold the black man down!!! He may have to drive 20, 30 whole miles now!!! It's repression, I tell ya!!!



Rps said:


> Humans do impact on the globe and logically climate....go to Haiti see what’s happened there on one side of the island where they have torn up all the trees as opposed to the Dominican Republic.


Never said human activity doesn't affect the earth's ecosystem. I said the anthropogenic effect on climate is nearly immeasurable. 

Please explain the connection between humans culling the forest on half an island & Globull Warming.



Rps said:


> no matter what your view on welfare and the system sometimes people just need a helping hand.....someday you and I will need one too...


A hand _up_, not a hand _out_...


----------



## FeXL

Ah, the old Grunion spin. Nothing quite like it... XX)

Curious that the Progs are suddenly convinced that voter fraud exists but it's all due to electronic voting machines & not illegal voters/voting practices. :lmao:

FWIW, I think there should be hard copies of electronic ballots kept.



CubaMark said:


> Nothing suspicious about this, eh?


----------



## Dr.G.

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A Democrat getting elected in Alabama for the US Senate. Unreal. A huge setback for Roy Moore, Pres. Trump and Steve Bannon.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:::clap::clap::clap


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Curious that the Progs are suddenly convinced that voter fraud exists but it's all due to electronic voting machines & not illegal voters/voting practices. :lmao:


What's this "suddenly" crap? For as long as I've been politically aware, we've had lots to say about voter fraud, from "hanging chads" to Republican-owned voting machines that were easily hacked. This ain't nothing new.



FeXL said:


> FWIW, I think there should be hard copies of electronic ballots kept.


Hell hath frozen over. We agree on something.

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A Democrat getting elected in Alabama for the US Senate. Unreal. A huge setback for Roy Moore, Pres. Trump and Steve Bannon.
> 
> 
> 
> :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:::clap::clap::clap



Perhaps sanity will prevail after all, albeit a year late.


----------



## Macfury

Good news! It won't make any difference in voting for president Trump's agenda. Mike Pence will break the ties!


----------



## Rps

Well, I just saw a snowball in Hell!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps sanity will prevail after all, albeit a year late.


We shall see, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Good news! It won't make any difference in voting for president Trump's agenda. Mike Pence will break the ties!


We shall see, mon ami. Paix.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Well, I just saw a snowball in Hell!


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Well, I just saw a snowball in Hell!


That snowball got through on a razor margin.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> That snowball got through on a razor margin.


As a past PM once said " a win is a win".


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> As a past PM once said " a win is a win".


I did not say it wasn't a win. Only that any other Republican candidate would have likely have taken it. will be interesting to see if Moore's "accusers" disappear following the election.


----------



## eMacMan

Wow nearly 65% voted "None of the above" down in Red Neck country. I believe that is an accurate reflection of Alabamites opinion of both parties.

Of course the real test will be Al Franken's Minnesota seat. He barely survived a recount, and there are no guarantees voters won't hold his transgressions against whomever the DNC anoints as his successor.

FWIW I'm not a huge Franken fan, but most of the allegations fall into the bad/stoned judgement, rather than outrageous behaviour category.


----------



## Macfury

Democrats were not really offended by Franken. He's part of a sacrificial group drummed out of office deliberately in hopes of doing the same to Trump.



eMacMan said:


> Wow nearly 65% voted "None of the above" down in Red Neck country. I believe that is an accurate reflection of Alabamites opinion of both parties.
> 
> Of course the real test will be Al Franken's Minnesota seat. He barely survived a recount, and there are no guarantees voters won't hold his transgressions against whomever the DNC anoints as his successor.
> 
> FWIW I'm not a huge Franken fan, but most of the allegations fall into the bad/stoned judgement, rather than outrageous behaviour category.


----------



## FeXL

Like I said: It's never been illegal voters...



CubaMark said:


> What's this "suddenly" crap?:


----------



## FeXL

Why is this unbelievable?

Have you been reading the narrative & the cover ups throughout the campaign? Crap like this:

Facebook Censors Roy Moore Yearbook Forgery Bombshell, Politifact Says 'No Evidence' Inscription Was Tampered With



> Facebook is suppressing the bombshell news of Roy Moore accuser Beverly Young Nelson "admitting she forged" parts of her yearbook inscription that she claimed was signed by Roy Moore.
> 
> According to Nelson's lawyer Gloria Allred back in November, Nelson said she "is willing to testify under oath before the U.S. Senate that there has been no tampering."


Related:

Bombshell: Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook



> Beverly Young Nelson has finally admitted that she forged a portion of the infamous high school yearbook that she and attorney Gloria Allred used as proof of her accusations against U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore.
> 
> And in yet another blow to the credibility of ABC News, the disgraced, left-wing network downplayed the bombshell by presenting this admission of forgery as adding “notes” to the inscription. Worse still, the reporter actually coaches Nelson, puts words in her mouth, downplay the enormous significance of her deceit.


When you've got the entire DemocRat team, the Rino's, the MSM & the GOP-e (but I repeat myself) running against you, Christ himself would have had a hard time winning.

The only surprise here is that the result is as close as it was.



Dr.G. said:


> Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## FeXL

So, in SoCal you have an erstwhile deported illegal alien waving a firearm around, killing a young woman & getting off scott free.

In Florida, a white male puts raw bacon on a mosque doorstep, breaks a few windows, cameras & lights & gets 15 years.

The disconnect is staggering...

Florida man, 37, is sentenced to 15 YEARS in prison after he was caught on camera vandalizing mosque and leaving bacon at the front door



> A man who vandalized a Florida mosque in January 2016 and left a raw slab of bacon on its doorstep was sentenced to 15 years in prison on a hate crime conviction.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Wow nearly 65% voted "None of the above" down in Red Neck country. I believe that is an accurate reflection of Alabamites opinion of both parties.
> 
> Of course the real test will be Al Franken's Minnesota seat. He barely survived a recount, and there are no guarantees voters won't hold his transgressions against whomever the DNC anoints as his successor.
> 
> FWIW I'm not a huge Franken fan, but most of the allegations fall into the bad/stoned judgement, rather than outrageous behaviour category.


Anyone know the voter turn out rate for Alabama? All I can seem to find is the for/for rates. Look like 1.3Million voted but i Was wondering on the universe there.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> So, in SoCal you have an erstwhile deported illegal alien waving a firearm around, killing a young woman & getting off scott free.
> 
> In Florida, a white male puts raw bacon on a mosque doorstep, breaks a few windows, cameras & lights & gets 15 years.
> 
> The disconnect is staggering...
> 
> Florida man, 37, is sentenced to 15 YEARS in prison after he was caught on camera vandalizing mosque and leaving bacon at the front door


Haven’t heard the details of the SoCal case you quoted.....but, yes there does seem to be a disconnect. Punishment must always be appropriate...and reasonable or else you may get worse crimes as the sentence might be similar...so burning down a mosque may get the same sentence as putting pork on the front door....however, this may be a statement sentence...while I don’t agreee with them usually, there might be some rationale as to why on the face this seems such a harsh sentence.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Haven’t heard the details of the SoCal case you quoted.....but, yes there does seem to be a disconnect. Punishment must always be appropriate...and reasonable or else you may get worse crimes as the sentence might be similar...so burning down a mosque may get the same sentence as putting pork on the front door....however, this may be a statement sentence...while I don’t agreee with them usually, there might be some rationale as to why on the face this seems such a harsh sentence.


The turn-out rate was 35%.

The SoCal case he did not fire the bullet towards anyone, rather it ricocheted off concrete and killed the young woman. I can see the acquittal on the murder charges, but he was also acquitted of manslaughter. He was convicted of possession of a firearm, when he was prohibited due to previous convictions. Certainly seems like at least a partial miscarriage of justice but I was not on the jury.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> The turn-out rate was 35%.
> 
> The SoCal case he did not fire the bullet towards anyone, rather it ricocheted off concrete and killed the young woman. I can see the acquittal on the murder charges, but he was also acquitted of manslaughter. He was convicted of possession of a firearm, when he was prohibited due to previous convictions. Certainly seems like at least a partial miscarriage of justice but I was not on the jury.


Thanks for the info. So 65% either didn't care or thought it was in the bag....another example of why mandatory voting is a good idea.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Haven’t heard the details of the SoCal case you quoted...


I posted about it a few days back.

Illegal Alien With 7 Felonies And 5 Deportations Fatally Shot San Francisco Woman In Broad Daylight

Francisco Sanchez, Kate Steinle’s Killer, Used 30 Aliases Over The Course Of A 25-Year Life Of Crime

The punch line:

Trump, Savage, Coulter, Woods and O’Reilly furious over Kate Steinle verdict



> On Thursday a San Francisco jury found seven times felon, and illegal alien, Juan Francisco Sanchez, innocent of murder or manslaughter of Kate Steinle.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> Thanks for the info. So 65% either didn't care or thought it was in the bag....another example of why mandatory voting is a good idea.


Only if the voter has the option of rejecting all of the candidates.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Only if the voter has the option of rejecting all of the candidates.


Agreed, I have always felt there should be a none of the above vote.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Agreed, I have always felt there should be a none of the above vote.


Mandatory voting is still an abrogation of freedom. Not wishing to participate in the system should be an option.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Mandatory voting is still an abrogation of freedom. Not wishing to participate in the system should be an option.


Actually, being forced to vote for a choice you do not want is an abrogation of freedom.....being able to say none of you is a form of freedom in itself.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Agreed, I have always felt there should be a none of the above vote.


'Kay, so let's follow this to the next logical step. Assume "None Of The Above" garners more votes than any candidate. Then what?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> 'Kay, so let's follow this to the next logical step. Assume "None Of The Above" garners more votes than any candidate. Then what?


Then the various parties get to choose a different candidate and do it all over in 6 weeks time. Who knows at some point they might accidentally choose someone who would represent the constituents rather than the corporate Puppet Meißters.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Then the various parties get to choose a different candidate and do it all over in 6 weeks time. Who knows at some point they might accidentally choose someone who would represent the constituents rather than the corporate Puppet Meißters.


Exactly! I would also like to add that WE should vote on who runs for the parties as well. Similar to a caucus or primary, the parties would wheel out their candidates in each riding and we should listen then vote for who we would vote for it we voted from them in the election. This would be especially important in a leadership contest. Divide the country up into 10 to 15 pieces and the party would bring out their leadership hopefuls. There is a number of votes you need to win such as 65% of the votes. The first to get 65% is the party leader. That way some cronies in the backroom do not decide who the leader should be. Look at how the Liberal and Tory leadership conventions were run...minimal input from us, the voters. This way I would bet there would be fewer of None of the Above votes.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Then the various parties get to choose a different candidate and do it all over in 6 weeks time. Who knows at some point they might accidentally choose someone who would represent the constituents rather than the corporate Puppet Meißters.


Awrite. Who foots the bill for all the re-elections?


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Awrite. Who foots the bill for all the re-elections?


Why would it be any different than now. Remember those years in the Harper era of minority governments.... the real issue if you are worried about elections is the cost of Parliament. In this day and age I think it ludicrous that we have as many members as we do and don't get me started on the Senate. But this is at the American thread so I don't wish to derail it. Ive made my views on the Westminster system known in the Canadian thread.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Why would it be any different than now.


'Cause, quite frankly, while I like the concept of "None Of The Above", I don't feel taxpayers should be on the hook for the cost of successive elections while these clueless twats trot out unlikable candidates.

How's about, nobody fields a successful candidate the first attempt, the political party's foot the bill for _all_ followup elections for that particular position(s)?

That just may spur them into presenting an acceptable candidate.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> 'Cause, quite frankly, while I like the concept of "None Of The Above", I don't feel taxpayers should be on the hook for the cost of successive elections while these clueless twats trot out unlikable candidates.
> 
> How's about, nobody fields a successful candidate the first attempt, the political party's foot the bill for _all_ followup elections for that particular position(s)?
> 
> That just may spur them into presenting an acceptable candidate.


I don't have a problem with this but little chance in happening. No the issue is the candidate selection process. You make that inclusive and most of the issue we've touched on above will go away.

Getting back to the intent of the thread, which is American Politics, I find the low turnout in such a charged election telling..............I'm just not sure yet what it is telling me.


----------



## eMacMan

Not sure if it has as yet happened but apparently the 'Bama Supreme court has ordered the scans of the paper ballots destroyed. Not sure if this applies to the paper ballots as well. If so it speaks to some serious background skullduggery that the elite are desperate to conceal.


----------



## SINC

Looking back . . . An interesting read from The New Yorker on May 19 of 1997.



> *Trump Solo*
> 
> One morning last week, Donald Trump, who under routine circumstances tolerates publicity no more grudgingly than an infant tolerates a few daily feedings, sat in his office on the twenty-sixth floor of Trump Tower, his mood rather subdued. As could be expected, given the fact that his three-and-a-half-year-old marriage to Marla Maples was ending, paparazzi were staking out the exits of Trump Tower, while all weekend helicopters had been hovering over Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach. And what would come of it? “I think the thing I’m worst at is managing the press,” he said. “The thing I’m best at is business and conceiving. The press portrays me as a wild flamethrower. In actuality, I think I’m much different from that. I think I’m totally inaccurately portrayed.”


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## FeXL

Odds are you can't be wrong on everything...



CubaMark said:


> Hell hath frozen over. We agree on something.


----------



## FeXL

C'mon, CM.

Waiting for your explanation on this.



FeXL said:


> Tell me precisely how 4% of the movement from ~3 parts per ten thousand of atmospheric CO2 to ~4 parts per ten thousand of atmospheric CO2 changes anything. Especially in the face of evidence that during the Paleozoic atmospheric CO2 concentrations were 70 parts per ten thousand and the planet not only didn't burn up but saw the dawn & proliferation of calcium carbonate encased fauna.


----------



## FeXL

Further from the Religion Of Peace.

New Jersey Imam Rages In Anti-Semitic Sermon



> A New Jersey Imam exhorted his congregation to fight the Jews and “kill them down to the very last one” to take back Al-Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> The Imam, Aymen Elkasaby, urged his followers to seek martyrdom in a bloody crusade against the Jews during prayers at the Islamic Center of Jersey City Dec. 8, according to the Clarion Project. Elkasaby’s jihadist sermon, a video of which was posted by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), rails against Israel and the Jews for their control of Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is located on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.


More, please.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> C'mon, CM.
> 
> Waiting for your explanation on this.


He can't speak right now. Banging his head against a wall instead of addressing the question.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He can't speak right now. Banging his head against a wall instead of addressing the question.


I left it purposely vague if for no other reason than to see precisely how well read he is on the subject. Anybody with even a basal working knowledge on the topic will know exactly what 3 points I'm making.

If he can't piece together the puzzle, 
1) it's no wonder he doesn't participate in the GHG Thread, and
2) it's time to bone up on the topic before he continues pushing AGW.


----------



## FeXL

Another leftie politician admits to physical abuse?

Shocka...

(Re)-Revealed: Democrat Senator Tom Carper Admitted Slapping His Wife in the Face in 1998 Interview



> Slapping one's wife is assault. So shouldn't men who assault women, even decades in the past, be forced from the Senate?
> 
> I thought that was the rule. That had been the rule two or three days ago. Has something changed recently to make that not the rule again?
> 
> Oh, and on that: When's Al Franken resigning, exactly?


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Bill's Wife s'more!

Comey edits revealed: Remarks on Clinton probe were watered down, documents show



> Newly released documents obtained by Fox News reveal that then-FBI Director James Comey’s draft statement on the Hillary Clinton email probe was edited numerous times before his public announcement, in ways that seemed to water down the bureau’s findings considerably.
> 
> Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, sent a letter to the FBI on Thursday that shows the multiple edits to Comey’s highly scrutinized statement.
> 
> In an early draft, Comey said it was “reasonably likely” that “hostile actors” gained access to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s private email account. That was changed later to say the scenario was merely “possible.”
> 
> Another edit showed language was changed to describe the actions of Clinton and her colleagues as “extremely careless” as opposed to “grossly negligent.” This is a key legal distinction.


And, just in case your Thu evening ehMac perusal needs a good laugh...


----------



## FeXL

And even more!

Obama State Department Let Clinton And Huma Make Off With Boxes Of ‘Muslim Engagement’ Docs



> The Obama State Department allowed former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her top aide Huma Abedin to remove call logs, scheduling documents and files described as “Muslim Engagement” from government premises by labeling the records “private,” Judicial Watch has learned.
> 
> Judicial Watch obtained records about the document removals in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for all forms authorizing the removal of “personal papers and non-record materials,” according to a Thursday press release.
> 
> “These new documents show the Obama State Department had a deal with Hillary Clinton to hide her calls logs and schedules, which would be contrary to FOIA and other laws,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. “When are the American people going to get an honest investigation of the Clinton crimes?”


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

A feature, not a bug.

Hundreds of EPA Employees Have Quit Under Trump



> Over 700 employees at the Environmental Protection Agency have quit or taken early retirement during the Trump administration so far, bringing the agency close to employment levels not seen since Reagan.
> 
> ThinkProgress, whose senior editor is scared of his plumber who he fears may have voted for Trump, is warning that the exodus will lead to "dirtier air" and "dirtier water."


----------



## FeXL

Leftie pervs not just men!

Kansas Dem Andrea Ramsey, accused of sexual harassment, will drop out of U.S. House race



> Andrea Ramsey, a Democratic candidate for Congress, will drop out of the race after the Kansas City Star asked her about accusations in a 2005 lawsuit that she sexually harassed and retaliated against a male subordinate who said he had rejected her advances.


<snort> Hell hath no fury like a rutting woman told no...


----------



## FeXL

Can you imagine the hue & cry from the left if something like this had been done by the right with Barry in their sights?

Exclusive: Prominent lawyer sought donor cash for two Trump accusers



> A well-known women’s rights lawyer sought to arrange compensation from donors and tabloid media outlets for women who made or considered making sexual misconduct allegations against Donald Trump during the final months of the 2016 presidential race, according to documents and interviews.
> 
> California lawyer Lisa Bloom’s efforts included offering to sell alleged victims’ stories to TV outlets in return for a commission for herself, arranging a donor to pay off one Trump accuser’s mortgage and attempting to secure a six-figure payment for another woman who ultimately declined to come forward after being offered as much as $750,000, the clients told The Hill.


----------



## FeXL

The Morality Sweepstakes



> I have a theory. It is not that the scales have fallen from our eyes about sexual harassment. It’s that the cultural left has run out of game. Without game, it can’t pass off sleazy exploitation as something else. Neo-avant-gardist art, brand-leveraged politics, deconstructionist philosophy, spectacle, fashion, the Lacanian Real – – none of these are any longer up to the task. Transgressive politics are dead. Worse, they’re boring. *Even the New York Times’s Andrew Sullivan and Ross Douthat are rooting for the baker, penning their sudden doubts about the rectitude of humiliating devout Christians for sport.*


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL

WSJ: There's Mounting Evidence of 2016 Election Meddling Coming From the FBI



> There is something rotten at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I mean all of this is just absurd. We have two FBI agents texting one another, one of which is having an extramarital affair with the other, cryptically talking about “insurance” against a Trump presidency. That text between these two agents was delivered on August 15, 2016. You also have Andrew Weissmann, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s top lieutenant, voicing praise for then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates for refusing to enact President Trump’s executive order on immigration, which got her fired. Then, there’s another DOJ official, Bruce Ohr, who was demoted for meeting the authors of the infamous and unverified Trump dossier, Fusion GPS; Ohr’s wife, Nellie, worked for that firm during the 2016 election. If there is nothing rotten at the FBI, then it’s credibility is definitely in question, something that The Wall Street Journal’s editorial board mentioned in their op-ed about this mess. The two FBI agents at the center of the firestorm right now, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page are obviously no longer working with Mueller; Strzok was removed in August, while Page’s assignment with the investigation has already ended and she has been transferred elsewhere. Still, from this past summer to now—and we’re just learning about these 10,000 text messages between the two. The _Journal_ makes it clear that there appears to be mounting evidence of election meddling emanating from the bureau:


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

EXCLUSIVE: Six U.S Agencies Conspired to Illegally Wiretap Trump; British Intel Used as NSA Front to Spy on Campaign



> From the beginning it was a set up to find dirt on Trump campaign insiders and if possible to topple Donald Trump’s presidential aspirations.
> 
> Before and after the 2016 election. And while this operation had many moving parts and alternating players, the mission to unseat Trump never changed. And it remains ongoing.
> 
> Paul Manafort was wiretapped. Cater Page was wiretapped. Donald Trump Jr. was wiretapped. Jared Kushner was wiretapped. Gen. Michael Flynn was wiretapped. And likely there were others.
> 
> And none of it was very legal.
> 
> In fact, most of it was very illegal, according to federal law enforcement sources who are blowing the whistle on a sweeping scheme to undermine the Executive branch and the electorate’s choice for president of the United States.


But it's OK when the liberals do it...

Related:

Trump Transition Team Lawyer: Mueller improperly grabbed tens of thousands of transition docs



> Deep State: “career staff at the General Services Administration … have unlawfully produced [transition team] private materials, including privileged communications, to the Special Counsel’s Office.”


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife, from a month ago.

Judicial Watch: New Clinton Classified Emails Discovered



> Judicial Watch today released 109 pages of new Hillary Clinton emails from her tenure as secretary of state. The documents include two email exchanges classified confidential and a 2011 exchange with Sid Blumenthal about “serious trouble for the Libyan rebels.”
> 
> The newly-produced emails were part of 72,000 pages of documents the FBI recovered last year in its investigation into Clinton’s use of an unsecure, non-government email system. The records include emails Hillary Clinton attempted to delete or did not otherwise disclose.
> 
> Two heavily redacted emails marked Classified Confidential included a November 2011 exchange under the Subject: “Egyptian MFA on Hamas-PLO talks,” and a June 28, 2011 email from Clinton to Abedin in which Clinton writes “I have now promised the Kuwaiti PM 3 times that I will deliver an address at the Oxford Islamic Center. Pls be sure that’s on the list for next Fall/next year.”


At some point, this problem will not be able to ignore...


----------



## eMacMan

You know they're really crooked when they risk jail terms to cover-up the corruption.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-did-broward-destroy-2016-ballots-sanders-ally-220237614.html

The only thing surprising about this is that the Lamestream actually carried it. Especially as Debbie Wasserman Shultz is involved right up to her eyebrows. 



> Despite the pending records requests and the ongoing litigation, Dr. Snipes ordered the ballots and other election documents destroyed, according to papers filed in circuit court here.
> 
> “When something like this happens where all the ballots are destroyed, it completely undermines people’s faith in the system,” Canova says in an interview.
> 
> “What is the Broward supervisor of elections hiding?” he asks.





> Under Florida law, ballots and other election documents are public records that must be made available for inspection by members of the public “at any reasonable time, under reasonable conditions.”
> 
> One limiting factor is that only the supervisor of elections or designated staff members are permitted to physically handle the ballots. But the law establishes that ballots are public documents and members of the public are entitled to see and examine them.
> 
> In addition, Florida regulations require retention of records related to a federal election for 22 months. That would mean that documents from the August 2016 Democratic primary election would not become eligible for routine destruction until late June 2018.
> 
> Florida regulations also prohibit destroying records that are the subject of a public records request or lawsuit. “When a public agency has been notified that a potential cause of action is pending or underway, that agency should immediately place a hold on disposition of any and all records related to that cause,” the regulations say. (The added emphasis is written into the regulations.)


----------



## CubaMark

An interesting read on contemporary U.S.—Russian relations...

*Does the United States Have a Future?* | Truthdig



> Editor’s note: Gilbert Doctorow is a historian, political analyst and expert in Russian affairs going back to 1965. A graduate of Harvard College in 1967, Doctorow did his graduate research in Moscow as a Fulbright Scholar and got a Ph.D. from Columbia University in 1975. He later worked in international business, including eight years as managing director of Russia for multinationals, beginning in 1994. Doctorow began writing on international affairs in 2008 and was a visiting scholar at Columbia in 2010-2011. Doctorow, who has a new book called “Does the United States Have a Future,” delivered the following talk at The National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on Dec. 7. Following the talk was a Q&A with Doctorow and former CIA analyst Ray McGovern. Video of that Q&A can be viewed below.


----------



## Macfury

Interesting article. I wish Trump would be permitted to create better relations with Russia, but the fake news regarding Russian "meddling" in the election is holding that improvement back.



CubaMark said:


> An interesting read on contemporary U.S.—Russian relations...
> 
> *Does the United States Have a Future?* | Truthdig


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I wish Trump would be permitted to create better relations with Russia, but the fake news regarding Russian "meddling" in the election is holding that improvement back.


You mean, like this?

Putin thanks Trump for intelligence that prevented St Petersburg terror attack 



> Russian President Vladimir Putin called US President Donald Trump on Sunday to thank the Central Intelligence Agency for relaying information that lead to the arrest of several individuals since Friday suspected of plotting terrorist attacks in St. Petersburg.
> 
> According to the Kremlin, the information shared by the CIA “helped to track, identify and detain a group of terrorists preparing to set off explosions in St. Petersburg’s Kazan Cathedral, as well as in other public areas,” Interfax news agency reported.
> 
> Mr Putin asked Mr Trump to relay his thanks to the director of the CIA and the intelligence officers who first received the information.


Collusion!!!


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk that $15/hr minimum wage again!

Analysis: A $15 Minimum Wage Will Cost California 400,000 Jobs



> California is projected to have a $15 statewide minimum wage by 2022. Economists project this will lead to a loss of 400,000 jobs, according to a report from the Employment Policies Institute.
> 
> Currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25. California's is $10.50, which is one of the highest minimum wages in the United States. California's intent to raise it to $15 by 2022 will create the largest gap between a state minimum wage and the federal wage in U.S. history.


More:



> In response to a $15 minimum wage, the study says there would be a 4.1 percent decline in employment and roughly half of the job losses would occur in the retail trade and food services sector.


Robots, anyone?


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's (as AoS puts it), Groperdammerung doing?

NBC Made Payment To Staffer After Sexual Harassment Claim Against Chris Matthews



> An MSNBC spokesman confirmed Saturday the company made a separation-related payment to one of Chris Matthews employees after the woman complained about sexual harassment.
> 
> Two sources familiar with the situation told The Daily Caller that Matthews paid $40,000 to settle with an assistant producer on his show, “Hardball with Chris Matthews,” in 1999 after she accused him of harassment. An MSNBC spokesperson contested that claim to the Caller, saying the company instead paid significantly less as part of a severance package.


Related:

Tingles


----------



## FeXL

Yep. That proposed tax bill is gonna kill poor families...

Wealthy NYC Elites Prepare To Flee The City Under De Blasio’s Tax Burden



> Wealthy New York City elites are preparing to flee the state because the Republican tax bill is going to make them face the full brunt of Mayor Bill de Blasio and Democratic state leadership’s tax rates.
> 
> “Everybody I speak to brings this up. Every NYC resident I speak to asks about the feasibility involved in doing it,” Wall Street tax expert Robert Willens told Yahoo Finance. “I’ve been doing this more than 40 years, and never heard more discussion about relocating than recently.”


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook



> In its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States, according to a POLITICO investigation.


----------



## FeXL

So, been listening to the hue & cry from the left about Trump's tax bill but haven't read much along the lines of specifics.

The linked article talks about the skewing of "all the polls hating it" & delves into a few of the details. Good read.

Who Says The GOP Tax Cuts Are Unpopular?



> Taxes: Poll after poll shows that few support the Republican tax-cut plan. But when pollsters bother to ask about specifics in the bill, support skyrockets. Guess which results make the headlines?
> 
> X In an article noting the sharp rise in optimism under President Trump, CNBC says that Trump's poll numbers are nevertheless low, and speculates that what could be hurting his popularity "is his signature tax plan, which is widely unpopular."
> 
> It's been a constant refrain about the Republicans' $1.5 trillion tax-cut plan. It's "widely unpopular" or "wildly unpopular" or "horribly unpopular," depending on which news outlet you read.


In the face of the Dow nearly on top of 25,000 & black unemployment at a 17 year low, I guess the hysterics on the left are just...never mind.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy again.

Obama’s Iran Deal Makes Trump’s Russia ‘Collusion’ Look Like Child’s Play



> We don’t know how Robert Mueller’s investigation into the Trump administration will play out, but if it’s half as bad the Obama administration’s coddling of terror-supporting Iran, it should be a massive national scandal.
> 
> Empowering terrorist groups. Paying ransom that emboldened our enemies to kidnap Americans. Creating an echo chamber that undermined a free press. Releasing spies, terrorists, and criminals who assisted not only our enemy and her terrorist proxies, but Russia as well. In the Iran deal, we have clear-cut case of the United States handing over extensive concessions to a nation that openly aimed to destabilize our interests, attack our allies, and kill our people — for nothing in return. It’s worse than anything we know about “Russian collusion.”


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

What could possibly go wrong?

Trump accuser lobbied to be his makeup artist months before her sex assault allegations roiled campaign



> A New York cosmetics executive who publicly alleged Donald TrumpDonald John TrumpHouse Democrat slams Donald Trump Jr. for ‘serious case of amnesia’ after testimony Skier Lindsey Vonn: I don’t want to represent Trump at Olympics Poll: 4 in 10 Republicans think senior Trump advisers had improper dealings with Russia MORE sexually assaulted her in the 1990s repeatedly solicited the future president to become his campaign makeup artist and to pitch her new product line in the months before her story roiled the 2016 presidential race, according to the woman and her contemporaneous emails.


More:



> The emails use starkly different language than the words Harth used in both a withdrawn 1997 federal lawsuit and a series of late 2016 campaign interviews in which she accused Trump of sexually assaulting her more than two decades ago. Harth is one of 19 women who have reportedly accused Trump of sexual misconduct.


HA!!! Ya don't say...

Further:



> Today, she says Trump should be removed from office.
> 
> “I firmly believe Trump should resign or be investigated and impeached. Leopards don’t change their spots,” she told The Hill.


Hell hath no fury like a make-up artist told where to stuff her brushes...


----------



## eMacMan

Both sides of the political coin are guilty, but I really hate it when polieticians jump on a tragedy to promote their particular agenda. We certainly recall Obama trying to use Sandy Hook to promote gun control. Did not take too long for so many anomalies to appear that one had no choice but to presume it was a black-op staged by the gun control crowd. Hey Soros can certainly afford it. 

Yesterday The Donald jumped in on the Amtrak derailment in Washington state, blaming it on aging infrastructure. Problem is: This was new infrastructure and the cause was trying to run a 30MPH curve at over 80MPH. 

NTSB: Train was traveling twice the speed limit before derailment - seattlepi.com
Investigation ongoing, Trump blames Congress for Amtrak wreck - seattlepi.com

I agree with his Orangeness, that the $Trillion$ the US spends on wars and wars by proxy would be much better spent at home. However I also think he diminishes his argument with this strategy.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> I agree with his Orangeness, that the $Trillion$ the US spends on wars and wars by proxy would be much better spent at home. However I also think he diminishes his argument with this strategy.


This is one of two things about which I agree with Trump (scrapping NAFTA being the other). But I'm quite sure our respective reasons are wildly different.

Also - in case y'all hadn't noticed, the Zombie Apocalypse is becoming more likely by the day.... 

*A Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted*
_The N.I.H. will create expert panels to assess controversial research into creating pathogens that easily infect humans._










Federal officials on Tuesday ended a moratorium imposed three years ago on funding research that alters germs to make them more lethal.

Such work can now proceed, said Dr. Francis S. Collins, the head of the National Institutes of Health, but only if a scientific panel decides that the benefits justify the risks.
(NYTimes)​


----------



## FeXL

OMG!!! There's finally a conservative stepping down in the face of sexual harassment allegations!

What's that now, over a hunnert Progs and one conservative? That ratio sounds about right...

Alex Kozinski Resigns Amidst Multiple Sexual Harassment Allegations



> We previously discussed a controversy involving porn found on the computer of Alex Kozinski, then the Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. He was later cleared of misconduct but admonished over his conduct. Recently, however, Kozinski was accused of sexual harassment and improper touchings by over nine more women. Formal charges were brought against Kozinski and an investigation launched. Kozinski has now resigned from the court. It was the correct decision for himself, the alleged victims, and the court given these very serious and disturbing allegations from former clerks. The sheer number of women and the pattern described in their accounts made the allegations quite compelling.


----------



## FeXL

He'll be out in less than 10.

Muslim convicted of plotting to behead Pamela Geller sentenced to 28 years in prison



> The sentence has just been handed down, and it is wrong. They offered him 30 years. He didn’t take it. So he ends up with 28. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
> 
> Not only did Daoud Wright target me for a brutal, cruel and violent death, but there has been no indication that he has given up these beliefs, and they will only be reinforced while he is in prison, due to a prison system that is rife with jihad recruitment that prison officials are unable or unwilling to do anything about. There is no indication that once he is released from prison at any time in the future, that he would not resume his quest to kill me. He should have been given, as I requested, the sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. This sentence sends the message to thousands of others like Daoud Wright that they can plot freely to murder those who say things that offend their evil ideology, and the consequences will be slight.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Both sides of the political coin are guilty, but I really hate it when polieticians jump on a tragedy to promote their particular agenda. We certainly recall Obama trying to use Sandy Hook to promote gun control. Did not take too long for so many anomalies to appear that one had no choice but to presume it was a black-op staged by the gun control crowd. Hey Soros can certainly afford it.
> 
> Yesterday The Donald jumped in on the Amtrak derailment in Washington state, blaming it on aging infrastructure. Problem is: This was new infrastructure and the cause was trying to run a 30MPH curve at over 80MPH.
> 
> NTSB: Train was traveling twice the speed limit before derailment - seattlepi.com
> Investigation ongoing, Trump blames Congress for Amtrak wreck - seattlepi.com
> 
> I agree with his Orangeness, that the $Trillion$ the US spends on wars and wars by proxy would be much better spent at home. However I also think he diminishes his argument with this strategy.


Official: Train brake automatically activated in fatal wreck - seattlepi.com

So an auto-brake activated while the train was going through a 30 MPH curve at 80 MPH. Not sure how it works with trains, but with cars braking hard once you're into a curve can make things worse. Braking should be done before you are into the curve.


> DUPONT, Wash. (AP) — Investigators are looking into whether the Amtrak engineer whose speeding train plunged off an overpass, killing at least three people, was distracted by the presence of an employee-in-training next to him in the locomotive, a federal official said Tuesday.
> 
> The official, who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said investigators want to know whether the engineer lost "situational awareness" because of the second person in the cab.
> 
> *Preliminary information indicated that the emergency brake on the Amtrak train that derailed in Washington state went off automatically and was not manually activated by the engineer, *National Transportation Safety Board member Bella Dinh-Zarr said.
> ...


----------



## FeXL

Not illegal when the left does it.

Rosie O’Donnell Offers $2 Million In Cash To Any GOP Senators Who Kill Tax Reform



> Former talkshow host and comedian Rosie O’Donnell proudly and openly attempted to bribe Republican Senators Tuesday night, which is of course a felony.


----------



## FeXL

Curiouser & curiouser...

Voter Fraud Investigation Launched in Alabama: Out-of-State Voters?



> An investigation into potential voter fraud has been launched in the Senate special election between Roy Moore and winner Doug Jones by Alabama Secretary of State John Merrill.
> 
> A random interview on Fox 10 (above) with a Jones supporter shortly after the election triggered the investigation. A man was approached by a camera and was asked by the reporter why he is so excited about Jones’s victory. The man said quite jubilantly:
> 
> _“Because, we came here all the way from different parts of the country as part of our fellowship, and all of us pitched in to vote and canvas together, and we got our boy elected!”_​


:yikes:


----------



## FeXL

So, Trump recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel & the Religion of Peace loses it's mind.

Next, the UN wants to rescind said recognition:

United Nations To Vote On Resolution To ‘Rescind’ US Recognition Of Jerusalem



> The United Nations Security Council is set to vote Monday on a resolution calling for the withdrawal of President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> The one-page draft resolution does not mention Trump or the U.S. by name, but expresses “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem,” according to Reuters.


However, American Ambassador Haley is unhappy:

‘An Insult That Won’t Be Forgotten’- U.S. Amb. Haley Tells UN Crooks To Get Stuffed



> “What we witnessed here today in the Security Council is an insult. It won’t be forgotten. It’s one more example of the @UN doing more harm than good in addressing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” -Amb. Haley after vetoing a UNSC resolution on Jerusalem:


Next, Trump replies:

Trump threatens to cut aid over UN resolution condemning Jerusalem decision



> President Trump on Wednesday threatened to cut foreign aid to countries that vote in the UN for a resolution condemning his decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> “I like the message that Nikki sent yesterday at the United Nations for all of these nations that take our money and then they vote against us at the Security Council, or they vote against us potentially at the [General] Assembly,” he said about US Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley.


More:



> “They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars, and then they vote against us. Well, we’re watching those votes. Let them vote against us, we’ll save a lot. We don’t care,” Trump said during a cabinet meeting at the White House.


Trump doesn't need much encouragement to stop funding the UN entirely. I jes' luvs it when the UN backs themselves into a corner like this...

Winning!!!


----------



## Macfury

I find it difficult at times to believe what Trump has achieved in only one year with the forces of regressive policy stacked against him. A political Energizer Bunny!



FeXL said:


> Trump doesn't need much encouragement to stop funding the UN entirely. I jes' luvs it when the UN backs themselves into a corner like this...
> 
> Winning!!!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I find it difficult at times to believe what Trump has achieved in only one year with the forces of regressive policy stacked against him. A political Energizer Bunny!


Check this out!

The First Black President? Black Unemployment Levels Near All-Time Lows



> This racist president is oppressing vulnerable communities of color with steady work.
> 
> _Here's a story you were very unlikely to see on CNN, MSNBC, in the New York Times or the Washington Post. As much as low unemployment numbers are a non-story for much of the MSM as long as there’s a Republican in the White House, one specific segment of the employment forces is making inroads rarely, if ever, seen before. Unemployment among black Americans has been hovering at or just above seven percent for past couple of months. That's still shamefully worse than the overall unemployment figure, but to put it in context, it’s also very close to the best it’s been since Nixon was in office._​


And _this_. The irony is so f'ing sweet I can taste it:

AT&T Will Pay Employees a Special $1000 Extra Bonus for Christmas in Observance of the Tax Cut Passing



> *NEW -- AT&T announces it will "pay a special $1,000 bonus to more than 200,000 AT&T U.S. employees" because of the tax reform passage and will also increase US capital spending by $1 billion*


Hilarious as AT&T was being lambasted about the same time by Chuck Schumer:



> "Over the last ten years, AT&T has paid an average tax rate of 8% a year; they have 80,000 fewer employees today than they had then. Tax breaks don't lead to job creation. They lead to big CEO salaries and money for the very, very wealthy."


So, lefties, tell us again about that crappy Republican tax bill.

UPDATE!!!



> JUST IN: Wells Fargo hikes its hourly pay rate to $15 & will aim for $400M in philanthropic donations next year due to the *newly-passed GOP tax bill.*


Damn Trump!!!


----------



## eMacMan

More on the Washington Amtrak wreck. It appears that there was a mass casualty drill scheduled in that location and that time frame. 

How can it possibly be that 9/11, San Bernadino, Orlando, Las Vegas and Dupont Washington, all had parallel drills going on either at the time or a day before the event? Unless of course they were Black Ops.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upe2ImCeEHI[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Death & Destruction wielded by the GOP tax bill.

#Boeing announces $300M employee-related and charitable investment as a result of #TaxReform legislation to support our heroes, our homes and our future.

Comcast Announces Special Holiday Bonus & Capital Investments

$1000 bonuses for 100,000+ employees & $50 billion spent over next 5 years on infrastructure.

Wonder if this will make believers of MSNBC...

Wells Fargo, Fifth Third Bancorp unveil minimum wage hikes after tax bill passage



> Fifth Third Bank headquarters in Cincinnati, Ohio.
> Fifth Third Bank to give bonuses, raise minimum wage after tax bill passage
> 16 Hours Ago | 00:38
> 
> Fifth Third Bancorp will pay more than 13,500 employees a bonus and raise the minimum wage of its workforce to $15 an hour after the passage of the Republican tax plan that will cut the bank's corporate tax rate.


Almost tired of all this Winning!!!

Related:

Analysis: Nearly Every Household Will Receive Tax Cut Under Revised Tax Proposal



> The final version of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, passed by both the House and the Senate, will reduce taxes for nearly every household, according to an analysis from the Tax Foundation.
> 
> "To help provide a sense of how the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would impact real taxpayers, we've run the taxes of eight example households," the foundation explains. "Our results indicate a reduction in tax liability for every scenario we estimated, with some of the largest changes in after-tax income accruing to moderate-income families with children."


Huh. 'Magine that...


----------



## FeXL

Good.

U.S. upholds nearly 300 per cent tariffs on Bombardier's CSeries



> The United States Department of Commerce upheld a preliminary decision and hit Bombardier Inc. with a slightly reduced 292.31 per cent tariff on Wednesday after it concluded the Montreal-based company had been dumping its CSeries aircraft into the U.S. market and had received unfair government subsidies.


Subsidies funded by Canuck taxpayers.


----------



## FeXL

Further on declaring Jerusalem Israel's capital. And other snark...

Trump Threatens to Cut Foreign Aid to Countries That Vote to Forbid the US from Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital



> Meanwhile, the ninnies who cry that #TrumpIsKillingUsAll are, alas, still with us.
> 
> Do you remember the three freak-outs recently in which the ninnies claimed Trump was "killing us"?
> 
> I do.
> 
> Here's Trump's MURDER SPREE in progress:
> 
> 1. Forcing the #VulnerablePoor into a THUNDERDOME of JOB OFFERS and CASH BONUSES
> 
> 2. Repealed an FCC ruling which progressive hysterics claimed would make FaceBook postings PUNISHABLE BY SPIDERS
> 
> 3. Recognized Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, plunging the Middle East into a state of unrest not seen since LAST WEDNESDAY


----------



## FeXL

Illegal Voters May Have Flipped Virginia Legislature to Democrats



> Newport News, where a hotly contested race ended in a tie, has had 71 ineligible voters cast ballots since 2011
> 
> A forthcoming random draw to break a tie vote in a disputed state House of Delegates election in Virginia might not have been necessary had the state done a better job safeguarding its voter rolls, according to voter fraud experts.
> 
> While no one has alleged fraud in the District 94 race between incumbent Republican David Yancey and Democratic challenger Shelly Simonds, Newport News — where the district is located — has seen ballots by ineligible voters in the past.


Nope. Not a chance. No illegal voters in any election ever held in the last million-billion years in the US. Nosiree...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

If there is one less free lunch provided to anyone in America, this bill is a failure...

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-(



FeXL said:


> Further on the Death & Destruction wielded by the GOP tax bill.
> 
> #Boeing announces $300M employee-related and charitable investment as a result of #TaxReform legislation to support our heroes, our homes and our future.
> 
> Comcast Announces Special Holiday Bonus & Capital Investments
> 
> $1000 bonuses for 100,000+ employees & $50 billion spent over next 5 years on infrastructure.
> 
> Wonder if this will make believers of MSNBC...
> 
> Wells Fargo, Fifth Third Bancorp unveil minimum wage hikes after tax bill passage
> 
> 
> 
> Almost tired of all this Winning!!!
> 
> Related:
> 
> Analysis: Nearly Every Household Will Receive Tax Cut Under Revised Tax Proposal
> 
> 
> 
> Huh. 'Magine that...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> If there is one less free lunch provided to anyone in America, this bill is a failure...


<snort>


----------



## Macfury

The Dems' real fear is the economic growth that will follow the tax cut. They thought they had everybody attuned to an underperforming economy that Obama had declared was the new normal.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The Dems' real fear is the economic growth that will follow the tax cut. They thought they had everybody attuned to an underperforming economy that Obama had declared was the new normal.


Then the Dow increasing by 5000 points in a single year, the first year it has ever done so, & post Trumps's victory, must have them in apoplexy. :lmao:

2018 can only get better. Even more so once he gets finished draining the swamp:

Prosecutors ask FBI agents for info on Uranium One deal



> On the orders of Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Justice Department prosecutors have begun asking FBI agents to explain the evidence they found in a now dormant criminal investigation into a controversial uranium deal that critics have linked to Bill and Hillary Clinton, multiple law enforcement officials told NBC News.
> 
> The interviews with FBI agents are part of the Justice Department's effort to fulfill a promise an assistant attorney general made to Congress last month to examine whether a special counsel was warranted to look into what has become known as the Uranium One deal, a senior Justice Department official said.
> 
> At issue is a 2010 transaction in which the Obama Administration allowed the sale of U.S. uranium mining facilities to Russia's state atomic energy company. Hillary Clinton was secretary of state at the time, and the State Department was one of nine agencies that agreed to approve the deal after finding no threat to U.S. national security.


Has Sessions finally found his spine? Or does he see the writing on the wall?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The Dems' real fear is the economic growth that will follow the tax cut. They thought they had everybody attuned to an underperforming economy that Obama had declared was the new normal.


Well that may be, but that growth is more to do with Trump’s inability to do anything.....however many believe that a government that does not touch the economy, in other words a do nothing approach, is the best way to go. That said, I think the Dow is much overvalued....I think I would be looking at CDs or the Bond market in 2018.


----------



## Macfury

Trump has done quite a lot. He simply hasn't created harmful entitlement programs.



Rps said:


> Well that may be, but that growth is more to do with Trump’s inability to do anything.....however many believe that a government that do any touch the economy, in other words a do nothing approach, is the best way to go. That said, I think the Dow is much overvalued....I think I would be looking at CDs or the Bond market in 2018.


----------



## FeXL

"We don't like reductions on our taxes. We want to pay more!"

Seriously? There are people on this planet that stupid?

Liberal Governor-Elect of New Jersey Says He Will Use All Means "Legal or Otherwise" to #Resist New Tax Reform Law



> He means he'll fight the tax law with a lawsuit challenging its constitutionality -- good luck with that -- or will restructure the laws in his state so that more taxes are sucked up by property taxes, which I think Susan Collins managed to get deducted from income.
> 
> _Murphy, a Democrat, said on "Squawk on the Street" that New Jersey may seek to challenge in court the "legality and constitutionality" of the Republican package. In claiming "everything is on the table" to mitigate the impact of the bill, he also said state property taxes may go up.
> 
> "New Jersey has taken a backseat over the past number of years in challenging what's coming at us out of Washington," said Murphy, who takes over in January for the state's two-term Republican governor, Chris Christie. "New Jersey will ... look at all available means -- both legal and otherwise -- to challenge this [bill] or compensate for it."_​
> *If you split from the US and formed a new Socialist States of America with other blue states, you could have all the laws you like, and you could elect Barack Obama King for Life!!!!*


M'bold.

Woohoo! Prog paradise!


----------



## Macfury

They're cheesed because there are limits on how much state tax people can deduct from their federal tax. That has taxpayers from fiscally responsible states no longer subsidizing the taxpayers of California, Illinois, NY and NJ. You would think they would be happy, because now their own taxpayers will be contributing more, resisting the Trump agenda.


----------



## FeXL

A federal government acting in their own best interests, as opposed to supporting justice? Say it ain't so...

Judge Declares Mistrial in Clive Bundy Trial, Citing Prosecution's "Willful" Withholding of Six Key Pieces of Evidence



> _A federal judge Wednesday declared a mistrial in the prosecution of Nevada cattleman Cliven Bundy, his two sons and a co-defendant, citing the government's "willful'' failure to turn over multiple documents that could help the defense fight conspiracy and assault charges in the 2014 Bunkerville standoff.
> 
> "The court does regrettably believe a mistrial in this case is the most suitable and only remedy,'' U.S. District Judge Gloria M. Navarro declared, issuing her ruling from the bench before a packed courtroom.
> 
> The judge listed six types of evidence that she said prosecutors deliberately withheld before trial, including information about the presence of an FBI surveillance camera on a hill overlooking the Bundy ranch and documents about U.S. Bureau of Land Management snipers outside the ranch.
> 
> The others were maps, an FBI log with entries about snipers on standby, threat assessments that indicated the Bundys weren't violent and that the Bureau of Land Management was trying to provoke a conflict by antagonizing them and nearly 500 pages of internal affairs documents involving lead bureau special agent Dan Love, since fired from the agency. _​


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> A federal government acting in their own best interests, as opposed to supporting justice? Say it ain't so...
> 
> Judge Declares Mistrial in Clive Bundy Trial, Citing Prosecution's "Willful" Withholding of Six Key Pieces of Evidence


What's more interesting is that they left out Dirty Dan Love's Kill book with Cliven Bundy at the top of his list. Oh and the fact that none of the Bundy brothers were armed and Cliven Bundy was not even at the Bunkerville standoff. Good old Lamestream bias.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



That's about it. Merry Christmas!


----------



## Macfury

Except Trump said nothing like that--that was Obama's progressive message of doom, gloom and diminished expectations.

Making Christmas Great Again!


----------



## FeXL

Nikki Haley For President 2024



> Yes, yes, I know. She isn't sufficiently pure because she didn't defend the Confederate battle flag and her domestic policies aren't perfect. But this woman fights, she doesn't back down, and she is a vociferous defender of American interests. Of course it is hyperbole to suggest her for president, but I want Washington filled with people like Haley rather than apparatchiks like Brennan and Powers and Rice and Meuller and Comey and.....
> 
> And what a nice headline!
> Nikki Haley Cuts The UN Purse Strings By $285 Million


:clap::clap::clap:

All related:

Israel in talks with more than 10 countries over Jerusalem embassy move



> Israel is in talks with more than 10 countries — including some in Europe — about potentially moving their respective embassies to Jerusalem, according to officials.
> 
> Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely on Monday said the nations were interested in following President Trump’s footsteps and declaring the Israeli city the new capital in the wake of Guatemala’s recent decision to do so.
> 
> While she refused to name the countries, Hotovely told Israel Radio that they were from every continent on earth.


Top 10 Most Insane U.N. Anti-Israel Actions of 2017



> 10. The U.N.’s Beirut-based agency of 18 Arab states published a report accusing Israel of “Apartheid.”
> 
> In response, UN Watch executive director Hillel Neuer took the floor to ask Algeria, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Lebanon, Yemen, and the others, a simple question: “Where are your Jews?” For once, the room was silenced. UN Watch’s speech went viral on the Internet, with the video viewed 5 million times worldwide.


Trump administration to snap ties with Palestinians, no peace plan, no more monetary aid 



> The White House has decided to quietly withdraw from all its ties with the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority and Mahmoud Abbas.
> DEBKAfile’s exclusive sources report that the Trump administration has resolved to scrap all ties with the Palestinian leadership in retaliation for its campaign against US President Donald Trump and his Jerusalem policy. Several warnings to Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of what was in store if he did not desist from castigating the US president fell on deaf ears.


UN key in Israel's creation but treats Jewish state with open contempt



> That the United Nations General Assembly voted 128 to 9 Thursday to condemn U.S. President Donald Trump for recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was no surprise.
> 
> Hatred of Israel, and Jew-hatred, run so deep at the UN that the real news was that 65 countries opposed (9), abstained (35), or skipped the vote (21), after the U.S. said it would remember how nations cast their ballots.


Palestinians: Another "Reconciliation" Bites the Dust



> For more than two months, the Hamas-Fatah "reconciliation" agreement that was reached in Cairo in October has been hailed by many Arabs and Westerners as a sign that the Palestinians were finally marching forward together.
> 
> It turns out, however, that the dramatic announcement of the agreement, which was reached with the sponsorship of the Egypt, was all a bluff.
> 
> Those in the know about the Palestinian world predicted that the latest "reconciliation" deal would fail. At least five previous agreements between Hamas and Fatah, reached under the auspices of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Yemen over the past ten years, likewise failed. Every one of these agreements was stillborn, not worth the time it took to uncap the pen.


----------



## 18m2

FeXL said:


> Nikki Haley For President 2024


But ... can she tweet?


----------



## CubaMark

We need an extinction-level event... or the threat of one at least, to get the small-minded among us to stop thinking like every man for himself, and grow a pair of planet-sized balls (with a conscience to match).


----------



## Macfury

We need to become more self-reliant, or else the small-balled progs among us will drag us all down to their level of helplessness and dependence.



CubaMark said:


> We need an extinction-level event... or the threat of one at least, to get the small-minded among us to stop thinking like every man for himself, and grow a pair of planet-sized balls (with a conscience to match).


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> ...or else the small-balled progs...


More like emasculated...


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> We need an extinction-level event... or the threat of one at least


The above, assuming an immediate threat for the latter, would lead to a far more conservative mindset becoming the norm. Not my preference either way -- the means are horrific, and the ends are worse than the status quo.

As for small-minded, communists and fascists take the cake on that one. No sense of improving what is, just have a bloody revolution and get to killing who had it coming (ie. those who disagree).

Live and let live is, to them, small minded when stacked against their delusional vision.


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> The above, assuming an immediate threat for the latter, would lead to a far more conservative mindset becoming the norm. Not my preference either way -- the means are horrific, and the ends are worse than the status quo.
> 
> As for small-minded, communists and fascists take the cake on that one. No sense of improving what is, just have a bloody revolution and get to killing who had it coming (ie. those who disagree).
> 
> Live and let live is, to them, small minded when stacked against their delusional vision.


Cannot disagree with what is known fact to all but the ideologists. Thanks for that.


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Nearly 450,000 People Fled These Three Deep Blue States In 2017



> Three Democratic-leaning states hemorrhaged hundreds of thousands of people in 2016 and 2017 as crime, high taxes and, in some cases, crummy weather had residents seeking greener pastures elsewhere.
> 
> The exodus of residents was most pronounced in New York, which saw about 190,000 people leave the state between July 1, 2016 and July 1, 2017, according to U.S. Census Bureau data released last week.
> 
> New York’s domestic out-migration during that time period was about the same as it was in the same time 2015 and 2016. Since 2010, the state’s outflow of just over 1 million residents has exceeded that of every other state, both in absolute terms and as a share of population, according to the free-market think tank Empire Center.


Not the peoples' paradise the Progs would have you think?

Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Executive Order Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption…



> *The Executive Order issued last week, targeting fraud and international corruption, is a who’s-who list of closely associated Clinton Foundation (CGI) donors.* Yup, something definitely happening… and using “_Global Magnitsky Designations_” is as subtle as a brick through a window.


M'bold.

More:



> Most of the names have either a direct (personal), or indirect (company or country), financial connection to the Clinton Foundation.
> 
> I have a sense this is a precursor (something akin to a rock thrown into a pile of leaves to catch attention) for something much more significant.


Oh, that'd be sweet...


----------



## FeXL

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

Hillary Clinton backer paid $500G to fund women accusing Trump of sexual misconduct before Election Day, report says



> One of Hillary Clinton’s wealthy pals paid $500,000 in an unsuccessful effort to fund women willing to accuse President Trump of sexual misconduct before the 2016 election, The New York Times reported Sunday.
> 
> Susie Tompkins Buell, the founder of Esprit Clothing and a major Clinton campaign donor for many years, gave the money to celebrity lawyer Lisa Bloom who was working with a number of Trump accusers at the time, according to the paper’s bombshell report.


More:



> Former Clinton nemesis turned Clinton operative David Brock also donated $200,000 to the effort through a nonprofit group he founded, the paper reported in an article entitled, “Partisans, Wielding Money, Begin Seeking to Exploit Harassment Claims.”


So, nearly 3/4 of a million bucks to come forward & _tell the truth_, yet no takers.

Curious, that...


----------



## FeXL

And more surprises!!!

Jailed pervert Anthony Weiner had CLASSIFIED emails belonging to wife Huma Abedin on his laptop – which the FBI seized after he sexted 15-year-old girl



> At least five emails determined to be classified were found among 2,800 documents stored on a laptop belonging to Anthony Weiner, whose then-wife Huma Abedin was deputy chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The State Department released hundreds of pages of materials Friday afternoon, including a total of eight pages classified at the 'confidential level,' the third most sensitive level the U.S. government uses.
> 
> The confidential classification level is applied to information whose unauthorized disclosure 'reasonably could be expected to cause damage to national security,'
> 
> The emails date from 2010, 2011 and 2012 and concern discussions with Middle East leaders including some from Israel, the United Arab Emirates, Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Large portions, including entire pages, were redacted before the documents' release.


Related:

Huma Abedin-Hillary Clinton Emails on Weiner Laptop Dealt With Hamas



> It's another victory for Judicial Watch and another layer of the rotten onion from the Obama-Clinton years being peeled back. And the smell is foul.
> 
> _The State Department on Friday released 2,800 work-related emails from Huma Abedin, a top aide to Hillary Clinton, that were found by the FBI on the laptop computer of Abedin’s husband, disgraced former Rep. Anthony Weiner of New York._​
> This was the investigation that Hillary Clinton and Dems at various points blamed for her defeat.
> 
> Five of them were deemed classified. And it's an interesting batch.


Related, too:

Abedin Forwarded State Passwords To Yahoo Before It Was Hacked By Foreign Agents



> Huma Abedin forwarded sensitive State Department emails, including passwords to government systems, to her personal Yahoo email account before every single Yahoo account was hacked, a Daily Caller News Foundation analysis of emails released as part of a lawsuit brought by Judicial Watch shows.
> 
> Abedin, the top aide to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, used her insecure personal email provider to conduct sensitive work. This guarantees that an account with high-level correspondence in Clinton’s State Department was impacted by one or more of a series of breaches — at least one of which was perpetrated by a “state-sponsored actor.”


----------



## FeXL

And even more!!!

WikiLeaks Drops Proof That NYTimes Colluded With Hillary Clinton



> You thought 2017 was going to end without a bang — other than the fireworks?
> 
> Think again.
> 
> After The New York Times on Saturday published a story headlined "Republican Attacks on Mueller and F.B.I. Open New Rift in G.O.P.," WikiLeaks couldn't stand it anymore. In a late-night post on Twitter, WikiLeaks revealed that a Times reporter used to feed State Department email updates of the stories the paper would be publishing DAYS before the stories appeared.
> 
> At the time, Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State.


----------



## SINC

Obama's legacy?



> Tens of thousands of federal employees earn more money than any U.S. governor, according to a new report that reveals some eye-popping stats on government spending for the federal workforce.
> 
> The 40-page report, titled “Mapping the Swamp” and released by government watchdog group OpenTheBooks, focused on the “size, scope and power” of the federal government -- and found salary spending for high-paid employees on the rise.
> 
> “The number of highly compensated federal employees is growing,” the report said, describing six-figure salaries as increasingly common.
> 
> According to the report, the number of federal employees making $200,000 or more increased by 165 percent between fiscal 2010 and 2016. Federal employees making $150,000 or more grew by 60 percent, with the number making more than $100,000 increasing by 37 percent in the same time period.


'Mapping the Swamp' report finds 30,000 feds earn more than any governor | Fox News


----------



## Beej

*How policy is debated.*

A video that makes fun of political rhetoric.

[ame]https://youtu.be/eXWhbUUE4ko[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

That's funny! Don't forget any cut in spending being directly linked to food being taken out of the mouths of babes.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bill's Wife s'more!

Congressional investigators find irregularities in FBI's handling of Clinton email case



> Republicans on key congressional committees say they have uncovered new irregularities and contradictions inside the FBI’s probe of Hillary Clinton’s email server.
> 
> For the first time, investigators say they have secured written evidence that the FBI believed there was evidence that some laws were broken when the former secretary of State and her top aides transmitted classified information through her insecure private email server, lawmakers and investigators told The Hill.


Republicans claim to have found written evidence that proves the FBI found 'criminality' during the probe of Hillary Clinton's email server



> Republicans have reportedly found written evidence that proves the FBI found 'criminality' during the agency's 2016 probe of Hillary Clinton's email server.
> 
> A new report by The Hill claims Republicans on key congressional committees have secured written documentation that the FBI believed there was evidence that some laws were broken when Clinton and her top aides sent classified information through her private email server.
> 
> The evidence reportedly includes FBI documents stating the 'sheer volume' of classified information that was transmitted through Clinton's insecure server was proof of criminality.


Related:

Trump Calls for Justice Dept. to ‘Finally Act’ Against Huma Abedin



> President Donald Trump ripped Huma Abedin in an early Tuesday tweet for “disregarding basic security protocols” while serving as Hillary Clinton’s personal aide at Foggy Bottom — and he urged the Justice Department to “finally act.”
> 
> Clinton’s deputy chief of staff at the State Department forwarded sensitive emails containing government passwords to her personal Yahoo email address, as The Daily Caller reported Monday.


Trump Zeroes In on Abedin, Comey; Says DOJ Should 'Act'



> President Trump on Tuesday seemingly called for the Justice Department to look into Huma Abedin, Hillary Clinton’s former aide, and James Comey, former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigations.
> 
> “Crooked Hillary Clinton’s top aid, Huma Abedin, has been accused of disregarding basic security protocols,” he wrote on Twitter. “She put Classified Passwords into the hands of foreign agents. Remember sailors pictures on submarine? Jail! Deep State Justice Dept must finally act? Also on Comey & others.”


----------



## FeXL

And the next chapter from _Gropergate_, the continuing tome of the compassionate, intellectual, _feminist_, left...

Chris Matthews Runs "Brazenly Sexist" Workplace At MSNBC According To Five Women



> Two weeks after ZeroHedge reported that a former Chris Matthews staffer was paid $40,000 to settle claims of sexual harassment, the MSNBC host has been accused by five women of running an "openly derisive and brazenly sexist news operation," with several staffers describing themselves as victims of "battered wives syndrome," according to three of his show's guests and two former producers who spoke with _The Daily Caller's_ Amber Athey.
> 
> _*Two former NBC producers independently alleged Matthews would rate the looks of his female guests on a scale and said Matthews was so abusive that staff joked about being battered women.* The interviews in total paint Matthews as a tyrant liable to fly off the handle at the slightest mistake, who was eager to objectify women and made inappropriate sexual comments appear to be a matter of course for someone in his position._ -Daily Caller​


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL

NYC, $50 million on Diversity Bollards.

New York City To Spend $50 Million To Prevent Car-Ramming Terror Attacks



> New York City officials are creating a first line of defense against terrorists looking to injure and kill pedestrians with vehicles by installing bollards.
> 
> Mayor Bill de Blasio announced Tuesday that the city plans on spending $50 million to protect New Yorkers and tourists with the protective barriers.
> 
> De Blasio cited the Halloween terror attack in Manhattan for the decision to begin adding more than 1,500 bollards to the city this month. Eight people were killed and a dozen injured when a man rammed a rented pickup truck into pedestrians and bikers on the bike path of the Hudson River Greenway.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

Wonder if it's a hard drive in the server room...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Bill and Hillary Clinton House Fire!!!



> The New York home of Bill and Hillary Clinton is on fire.
> 
> The Chappaqua Fire Dept. tells TMZ a structure on the property is ablaze and they are on the scene trying to control it.
> 
> We don't know whether the main structure was involved or if an ancillary structure such as a garage or guest house was on fire.


----------



## FeXL

Prog heads exploding everywhere...

Acting ICE Director wants to charge politicians in sanctuary cities with the crimes their immigrants commit



> Acting Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Director Thomas Homan said he'd like to hold elected officials in sanctuary cities 'personally accountable' for crimes committed by individuals residing in their constituencies illegally.
> 
> 'We've got to start charging some of these politicians with crimes,' Homan told Fox News Channel's Neil Cavuto on Tuesday.
> 
> Homan also singled out the entire state of California, threatening increased special agents and deportation hours, following its official declaration as a sanctuary state, with a law that took effect on Monday.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Gropergate.

'I will kill the motherf---er': Paul Sorvino issues death threat to Weinstein



> Actor Paul Sorvino has threatened to come after Harvey Weinstein — if the disgraced movie mogul avoids jail.
> 
> The Goodfellas star, who is famous for playing mob bosses on the big and small screen, is still furious after learning the movie mogul blacklisted his actress daughter, Mira, when she turned down his sexual advances, and he’s out for blood.


Agree or disagree, I can certainly understand the sentiment.


----------



## FeXL

Fewer Blacks, Hispanics Go Jobless Under Trump



> More black and Hispanic Americans are getting jobs on President Donald Trump’s watch, the latest employment numbers show, although critics accuse him of ignoring such minority populations.
> 
> The White House, not surprisingly, is happy to tout the results.
> 
> Unemployment among blacks declined from 8 percent one year ago to 7.3 percent in November, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Blacks’ labor force participation rate rose slightly over the past year, from 61.9 percent in November 2016 to 62.2 percent last month.
> 
> Unemployment among Hispanics fell by a percentage point, from 5.7 percent to 4.7 percent, over the year. Hispanics’ labor force participation rate held steady, dipping from 65.7 percent to 65.6 percent.


Related:

Dow Hits 25,000 For First Time Ever as Employment Zooms



> _Private sector job creation surged in December as a strong holiday shopping season pushed companies to hire more workers, according to a report Thursday from ADP and Moody's Analytics.
> 
> Companies hired 250,000 new workers to close out the year, well above Wall Street expectations of 190,000. The month was the best for job creation since March and topped the 185,000 in November, a number that was revised lower by 5,000.
> 
> The total brought 2017's private payroll growth as gauged by ADP and Moody's to 2.54 million, an average of 212,000 a month._​
> *Note it's private sector job gains leading the surge -- not government sector job gains, as frequently happened in Obama's few jobs-producing quarters.*


Yeah, my bold.

Related, too:

Trump’s War on Regulations: More Than 1,500 Withdrawn, Delayed or Under Review, Plus $570 Million in Savings



> Shortly after being elected president, Donald Trump signed an executive order directing all federal agencies to find two regulations to cut for every new one issued. Agencies also were asked to pay for new regulatory costs by eliminating existing rules.
> 
> In December, Trump said the goals set out in that executive order had not only been met but exceeded.
> 
> “We blew our target out of the water,” Trump said, noting that his administration had eliminated 22 regulations for every new one put in place.
> 
> The Associated Press reported on Trump’s remarks at the White House as he stood next to giant stacks of paper representing the regulatory slashing his administration has done over the past year.
> 
> “For many decades, an ever-growing maze of regulations, rules, restrictions has cost our country trillions and trillions of dollars, millions of jobs, countless American factories, and devastated many industries,” Trump said.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

And it's all good!


----------



## SINC

Well, well, lookie here:

Justice Department reopens Hillary Clinton email investigation


----------



## FeXL

Bundy Case Dismissed, Judge Orders Rancher Released



> U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro ruled Monday the case against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy would be dismissed “with prejudice,” and ordered the rancher set free after federal prosecutors willfully withheld exculpatory evidence during the 2017 trial.
> 
> Navarro ruled a mistrial in the Bundy case last month after prosecutors “willful[ly]” withheld exculpatory evidence favorable to the four men on trial: Cliven Bundy, his two sons and one other person. The judge found that prosecutors had violated the defendant’s civil rights and violated federal law by hiding evidence from the court.


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Oprah Winfrey gives powerful speech at the Globes; lapdogs announce new 2020 POTUS



> Apparently, liberals aren’t as opposed to a TV star running for president as they claimed.


Yep.

Related:

NBC Deletes Endorsement Of Oprah As ‘OUR Future President’ After Outrage



> There has been a great deal of speculation about the iconic talk show host running for president.
> 
> The tweet led to bipartisan outrage online, with reporters and commenters on both sides saying it was a bad look for a national news company to openly endorse a potential candidate for president, even if the tweet was meant to be a joke.


----------



## FeXL

Of course she did!

Huma Abedin backed up her emails to Anthony Weiner's laptop after leaving the State Department – even though she said on oath and to FBI agents that she did no such thing



> Huma Abedin backed up copies of her emails with Hillary Clinton to her pervert husband Anthony Weiner's laptop, DailyMail.com can disclose - conflicting with her account to the FBI and in court that she did not preserve the conversations.
> 
> An examination by DailyMail.com of emails released by the State Department shows that backup copies of many of Abedin's work-related messages with Clinton were created in the dates after Clinton left the State Department in early 2013.
> 
> The emails, released at the end of December, show that they had been put on Weiner's laptop by a BlackBerry archiving program.
> 
> A tech expert told Dailymail.com that Abedin would have to have activated the backup program and may well have plugged her device into the laptop - raising further questions over her testimony to the FBI.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Bundy Case Dismissed, Judge Orders Rancher Released


Shocked and delighted!


----------



## FeXL

One of my favorite blogs is Ace of Spades HQ. Every morning JJ Sefton posts The Morning Report which includes a brief explanation for the links included. He usually includes a bit of snark, sarcasm, humour, etc., in his precis. This morning he hits it out of the park.

Always an excellent read.

The Morning Report 1/9/18



> Good morning kids. Lots of link-fu to get into so let us commence. First up, a couple of pieces that just perfectly crystalize what we have all known for quite a while now. *First, a Democrat memo which plainly admits that their support for Amnesty and illegal aliens is just a massive Democrat voter registration drive.* Unsaid is that the influx will ultimately dissolve the American identity, as has always been the intention of the Left, both for ideological reasons and in order to absolutely capture the nation and retain permanent power. What they cannot obtain via indoctrination, intimidation, bribery, law-fare or outright fraud insofar as turning the populace to their side (and they have been very successful as the past 50+ years [despite abject policy failure] have shown) they will obtain by _replacing_ the populace with an alien serfdom that have no idea what America is supposed to be, nor the desire to find out. So long as Uncle Sugar keeps them on the hook with just a taste. All those years of genocide on Black America has taken its toll.


M'bold.

Nice to read confirmation of what the Right has known for years.


----------



## eMacMan

A case of Arkancide, rare in that there is no obvious connection to the Clinton Crime Family. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-fatally-stabbed-wife-she-163532779.html



> (CARLISLE, Ark.) — Investigators say a central Arkansas man fatally stabbed his wife after she changed the TV channel from a football game while he was outside smoking.
> 
> Court records say 58-year-old Tony Thomas of Carlisle was charged Monday with capital murder. Investigators say he admitted he killed his wife during an argument after she switched the TV channel in November. He’s been jailed since the incident.
> ...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk about the fallout from minimum wage hikes again.

ANOTHER MINIMUM WAGE FAIL: Red Robin Restaurants Eliminate All Busboys



> On Monday, the national restaurant chain Red Robin announced it would eliminate busboys at all of its 570 restaurants, as the company expects it will save $8 million in 2018 by doing so. Red Robin’s chief financial officer Guy Constant told attendees at the ICR retail conference, “We need to do that to address the labor increases we’ve seen.”
> 
> Michael Saltsman, director of the Employment Policies Institute (EPI), told FOX Business, “I read that as minimum wage. Somebody like Red Robin, which has a lot of exposure in western states [where the minimum wage is rising faster] … this is sort of a burger and beer chain. If they can’t pass those increases off in higher prices … they have to find a way to do more with less.”


More:



> Saltsman added, “I think the loss, as the minimum wage goes up … [is the] hollowing out of entry-level opportunities,”


Further:



> As FOX Business reported, “Earlier this year, a study conducted by EPI, which analyzed employment trends from 1990 through 2017, found that *each 10% increase in the minimum wage in California has resulted in a corresponding 2% decline in employment for affected employees. The impact was larger, 5%, for lower-paid workers.*"


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## Macfury

The sad result of treating minimum wage as a proxy for a social program.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Shocked and delighted!


The charges were dismissed with prejudice meaning the Government can file no more charges against these men regarding the Bunkerville protests.

She had little choice, if the facts that came to light in the closed sessions had made it into the record of a trial, charges would have to be filed against Dirty Dan Love and a myriad of other government miscreants. This way all of them including Judge Navarro can resume their lives with no fear of prison, reprimand or loss of pensions. 

Interesting that the few Lamestream reports still refer to it as an armed standoff, even though the Bundy claims of more than 100 BLM agents in military body armor and auto weapons have now been fully verified. The only threat of violence was from the BLM army.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The sad result of treating minimum wage as a proxy for a social program.


I'm sure some Prog will be along shortly, 'splainin' that FOX News is nothing more than a fascist, racist, misogynistic organization & can't be trusted. Even thought all they're doing is quoting EPI's report...


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well. Isn't _that_ bloody convenient...

Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner Withdraw Their Petition From Divorce from Court



> Here's the claimed reason for the withdrawal of the divorce proceedings from the court:
> 
> _"In order to ensure the proceedings have a minimal impact on their child, the parties have decided to finalize their divorce swiftly and privately," Abedin attorney Charles Miller said in a statement._​
> James Woods has a different theory -- which strikes me as, well, probably right:


Woods nails it, big time.


----------



## FeXL

But Trump is the one w/ dementia...

Diane Feinstein: I'm Sorry I Released Those Transcripts Without Grassley's Permission; I Was Pressured to Do So.
Wait, I Wasn't Pressured; I Had a Headcold.
Oh My God I'm So Old and Infirm, The Pieces of My Mind are Slipping Away From Me



> Dianne Feinstein has a spirited argument with the one person she has a chance to beat, herself:


<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Further on Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Psychiatric Association Hammers Members Over Diagnosing Public Figures



> The American Psychiatric Association called out members of its profession for offering their professional opinions about public figures—namely those they haven’t personally examined.
> 
> The rebuke comes after questions about President Trump’s mental fitness have surfaced in recent days.
> 
> "We at the APA call for an end to psychiatrists providing professional opinions in the media about public figures whom they have not examined, whether it be on cable news appearances, books, or in social media," the group wrote. *"Arm-chair psychiatry or the use of psychiatry as a political tool is the misuse of psychiatry and is unacceptable and unethical."*


Must be talking about this shining example of Prog professionalism:

Psych Prof Who Called Trump ‘Mentally Impaired’ May Not Have A License To Practice



> The Yale University psychology professor who called President Trump “mentally impaired” appears to lack a valid license to practice psychiatry in her home state of Connecticut.


Huh. Could probably apply to the armchair Prog shrinks on these boards, too...


----------



## FeXL

Ginni Rometty, Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and other tech CEOs warn of 'significant costs' and 'disruptions' if Congress doesn't save the Dreamers by January 19

So, I wanna pull just one point out of this article:



> In addition to causing a tremendous upheaval in the lives of DACA employees, failure to act in time will lead to businesses losing valuable talent, cause disruptions in the workforce, and *will result in significant costs.*


M'bold.

Jes' wondering how all this predicted "significant costs" squares with $15/hr minimum wage hikes enacted in the states where at least some of these businesses are located...


----------



## Macfury

Small businesses are of no concern to the tech giants. Only large corps suffer from "significant costs".



FeXL said:


> Ginni Rometty, Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and other tech CEOs warn of 'significant costs' and 'disruptions' if Congress doesn't save the Dreamers by January 19
> 
> So, I wanna pull just one point out of this article:
> 
> 
> 
> M'bold.
> 
> Jes' wondering how all this predicted "significant costs" squares with $15/hr minimum wage hikes enacted in the states where at least some of these businesses are located...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Small businesses are of no concern to the tech giants. Only large corps suffer from "significant costs".


Then they must be lovin' Trump's tax breaks!


----------



## FeXL

That capitalist swine Wal-Mart is giving bonuses? Heresy!!!

So Much Winning You'll Be Tired of Winning: Walmart Announces Bonuses, Hikes to Starting Wage Due to Tax Reform



> _BREAKING: Walmart will raise its starting wage rate for hourly employees in the U.S. to $11, expand maternity & parental leave benefits, and provide a one-time cash bonus for eligible employees of as much as $1,000 due to tax reform._​


And Assurant no longer moving to Bermuda? Those poor employees, robbed of their warm Caribbean climate & forced to endure all the Globull Warming the US is currently enjoying... :-(

Language warning.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> ....Nope. Not a chance. No illegal voters in any election ever held in the last million-billion years in the US. Nosiree...
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



*You might want to glue yer arse back on....*

*Oops! White House admits it has zero evidence of voter fraud in 2016 election*
_This is awkward._

In a court filing on Tuesday, the White House announced that it had not uncovered any preliminary findings of voter fraud in the 2016 election and that it would be destroying confidential voter data initially collected for President Trump’s controversial voter fraud commission, which was disbanded on January 3.

The revelation stands in stark contrast to previous comments made by both Trump and former commission vice chair and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who claimed in an interview with right-wing outlet Breitbart one week ago that all investigation work would be “handed off” to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), implying that Democrats were becoming “uncomfortable” with how much Republicans had discovered thus far.

Trump also claimed previously that the commission — created in May 2017 and charged with identifying “vulnerabilities in voting systems” that could lead to fraud — had uncovered “substantial” findings which would be handed over to DHS.

Tuesday’s court filing contradicted those claims.

“The Commission did not create any preliminary findings,” White House Director of Information Technology Charles C. Herndon said. 

(Think Progress)​


----------



## Macfury

That's what you get from reading the pap at "Think Progress."

The commission was disbanded because lefty states did not assist in the fraud commission by supplying data. The news sources you rely on are such asshats.


----------



## CubaMark

So the truth is out... in the few hours per day that Trump isn't glued to Fox News, he's secretly... an FPS Gamer!

*Trump just boasted of selling 'F52' aircraft to Norway. The fighter jet only exists in 'Call of Duty'*










Donald Trump today boasted of the United States' sale of 'F52' aircraft to Norway. They don't exist, other than elements in the popular video game 'Call of Duty.'


In a joint press conference Wednesday with Erna Solberg, Prime Minister of Norway, Trump said the US was selling Norway a fighter aircraft that is literally a thing of fiction.

The President of the United States said Norway had already begin receiving deliveries of the first American-made “F-52s.”

​“In November, we started delivering the first F-52s and F-35 fighter jets,” he blurted.

The F-52 is a fictional aircraft featured prominently in the successful Call of Duty video game series. This fan website details the craft's capabilities, which are admittedly most impressive.

“Trump was supposed to be speaking at the White House to announce Norway's purchase of 52 F-35 jets from American aerospace firm Lockheed Martin,”

(BoingBoing)​
*Twitter is now ripe with F-52 jabs:*


​


----------



## Macfury

So you posted this giant message because he transposed the numbers? Think you need to get a life, CM...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> So the truth is out... in the few hours per day that Trump isn't glued to Fox News, he's secretly... an FPS Gamer!
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump just boasted of selling 'F52' aircraft to Norway. The fighter jet only exists in 'Call of Duty'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump today boasted of the United States' sale of 'F52' aircraft to Norway. They don't exist, other than elements in the popular video game 'Call of Duty.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a joint press conference Wednesday with Erna Solberg, Prime Minister of Norway, Trump said the US was selling Norway a fighter aircraft that is literally a thing of fiction.
> 
> 
> 
> The President of the United States said Norway had already begin receiving deliveries of the first American-made “F-52s.”
> 
> 
> 
> ​“In November, we started delivering the first F-52s and F-35 fighter jets,” he blurted.
> 
> 
> 
> The F-52 is a fictional aircraft featured prominently in the successful Call of Duty video game series. This fan website details the craft's capabilities, which are admittedly most impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> “Trump was supposed to be speaking at the White House to announce Norway's purchase of 52 F-35 jets from American aerospace firm Lockheed Martin,”
> 
> 
> 
> (BoingBoing)​
> 
> 
> *Twitter is now ripe with F-52 jabs:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




Better than dealing with those other ****hole countries.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Better than dealing with those other ****hole countries.


Which countries do you consider ****holes, Freddie?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The news sources you rely on are such asshats.


An old saw about like attracting like comes to mind...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> So you posted this giant message because he transposed the numbers? Think you need to get a life, CM...


It's absolutely hilarious what these fine purveyors of Trump Derangement Syndrome will grasp at in an attempt to debase him. They got nuttin' so they either gotta make $h!t up (THE RUSSKIES!!!) or focus on the real stories, the hard-core material, like TRUMP DRINKS A DOZEN SOFT DRINKS A DAY!!!...


----------



## FeXL

Further evidence of the fallout of $15/hr minimum wages.

California's Sky-High Minimum Wage Set to Hurt the Poor as Jack in the Box Automates



> According to _Slate_:
> 
> _"Jack in the Box’s CEO says it 'just makes sense' to replace people with robots if wages rise."_​
> Expounding upon CEO Lenoard Comma's intention, _Slate_ reported:
> 
> _"[The CEO of Jack in the Box] indicated that the fast food chain will reconsider replacing human cashiers with machines like self-service kiosks as California gradually increases its minimum wage over the next four years, according to Business Insider. 'As we see the rising costs of labor, it just makes sense,' he reportedly said on Tuesday at the ICR Conference in Florida. Comma claims that previous tests of automated kiosks at certain Jack in the Box locations, which began in 2006, resulted in greater efficiency and higher checks on average. The installation costs just weren’t worth it at the time. However, California Governor Jerry Brown recently signed a law in 2016 that will raise the state’s minimum wage incrementally each year to $15 by 2022. And California is just a part of a nation-wide wave of minimum wage reforms—17 other states, including New York, Michigan, and Washington, are also seeing increases early this year."_​
> Way to go, Democrats. You're making business more efficient. Perhaps that will be a consolation to the resultantly unemployed poor.


Related:

This Seattle Subway can’t sell $5 footlongs because of big government – and posted a sign to let customers know



> Here’s a photo of a sign that’s hanging in a Seattle Subway that lays out the problems faced by both consumers and business owners in the city:
> 
> _Seattle Subway says so long to the $5 foot long! https://t.co/4noT5G4kVr #Subway #Seattle #Waleg pic.twitter.com/aSNDD193gU
> 
> — Washington Policy (@WAPolicyCenter) January 9, 2018_​
> The sign reads:
> 
> _Unfortunately, we are not participating in the $4.99 footlong promotion. The cost of [doing] business in the City of Seattle is very high. We are balancing the highest minimum wage in the nation, paid sick leave, ACA, secure scheduling, soda tax, and much more._​
> As this Subway business owner helpfully makes clear to his customers, there are a lot of extra costs for anyone operating a business in Seattle. And these costs are hurting restaurants, small businesses, and ultimately the public at large. Everyone has to pay for Seattle’s progressive policies—and all the costs outlined above—through dramatically higher prices.


Unfortunately, as this sign is posted in Seattle, it will also largely fall on deaf ears (blind eyes?)


----------



## Macfury

Did this get posted elsewhere?

https://nypost.com/2018/01/08/red-robin-will-offset-minimum-wage-hikes-by-canning-busboys/

Another shocka!



> ORLANDO, Fla. — *Restaurant busboys, in line to earn a little more dough this year as minimum wage hikes hit across the country, are instead losing their job*s as chains look to cut costs.
> 
> One chain axing jobs is Red Robin, which hopes to save about $8 million this year by eliminating busboys at each of its 570 restaurants, the company said Monday.
> 
> Red Robin restaurants are located mostly in Western states, where the minimum wage has risen more quickly.
> 
> The Colorado-based chain already eliminated so-called expediters — who plate the food in the kitchen — and realized a cost savings of nearly $10 million last year, it said.
> 
> “We need to do that to address the labor increases we’ve seen,” Red Robin’s chief financial officer Guy Constant told attendees at the ICR retail conference held here.
> 
> The casual dining chain has been investing in ramping up its delivery options, according to management. *Existing staff is expected to pick up the slack once the busboys are eliminated.*


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Did this get posted elsewhere?
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/01/08/red-robin-will-offset-minimum-wage-hikes-by-canning-busboys/
> 
> Another shocka!


They could probably treble the cost savings if the axed 2 or 3 executive VPs


----------



## FeXL

Two things:

First, I guess if you're a <spit> Prog millionaire, a thousand bucks here or there is insignificant.

Second, exactly what the hell has she done for the little people lately?

WATCH: Millionaire Pelosi Says Wage Increases & Bonuses For Americans Are 'Pathetic,' 'Insignificant'



> Pelosi's comments show just how out-of-touch she is with working-class American families who are not worth $30 million, like she is.


----------



## FeXL

Republican policies kill millions!!!

Here’s a List of Times Democrats Claimed GOP Policies Would Cause ‘People to Die’



> Democrats and liberals over the past year have not been shy about saying that they believe Republican policies will kill Americans.
> 
> From tax reform to withdrawing from the Paris climate accord, Democratic lawmakers and others have not held back their criticism while trying to derail GOP legislation from becoming law. One of their main tactics has been to warn that Republican policy ideas would cause "people to die."


I truly believe that one should read something funny every day.

You're welcome...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Bill's Wife s'more!

The biggest Hillary Clinton scandal no one's talking about



> You've heard of Benghazi and Uranium One. But more than a year after Hillary Clinton’s resounding loss to President Trump, she must now grapple with a new scandal: An ongoing Federal Election Commission investigation into an alleged $84 million money laundering scheme orchestrated by the Hillary Victory Fund — the $500 million joint fundraising committee between the Clinton campaign, the Democratic National Committee, and Democratic state parties.
> 
> Based on former DNC Chairwoman Donna Brazile’s public comments, a memo by former Clinton campaign manager Robbie Mook, and months of reviewing FEC reports, the Committee to Defend the President has filed an FEC complaint accusing the Democratic establishment of using state chapters as straw men to circumvent campaign donation limits and launder money to Clinton’s campaign. The Hillary Victory Fund solicited six-figure donations from major donors, including Calvin Klein and “Family Guy” creator Seth MacFarlane, “papered” them through state parties en route to DNC and then the Clinton campaign.
> 
> In reality, the fund either never transferred $84 million to state parties, sending the funds straight to the DNC, or it made the transfers without state parties having actual control of the money. In either case, the fund violated campaign finance laws in precisely the way the Supreme Court deemed illegal in its 2014 McCutcheon v. FEC ruling. And that’s only the tip of allegations in this particular iceberg.


I jes' luvs me yet one more Prog scandal...


----------



## FeXL

While we're talking Progs From The Past, may as well have another kick at Barry's outstanding legacy, too.

Ex-DEA Agent Says Obama Admin. Lost ‘Gold Opportunity’ to ‘Crush’ Hezbollah



> The retired head of the Drug Enforcement Administration's special-operations division said on Wednesday the Obama administration squandered a chance to dismantle Hezbollah due in part to political motivations to clinch a nuclear deal with Iran.
> 
> Derek Maltz, who was in charge of a major law enforcement operation targeting Hezbollah's trafficking of cocaine, said the United States cannot again succumb to political distractions that allow the Iranian-backed terrorist to continue its narcoterrorism campaign.
> 
> "There's an old saying, opportunities come and go," Maltz testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee. "In my personal opinion, having been the guy in charge of the special operations for ten years, we lost a gold opportunity to crush Hezbollah."


----------



## CubaMark

_Wouldn't it be nice if reporters in the U.S. and Canada had the cajones these folks carry around?_

*Reporters to Trump ambassador: ‘This is the Netherlands — you have to answer questions’*

Peter Hoekstra, the newly minted U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, held his first news conference with the Dutch media at his new residence in The Hague on Wednesday.

It did not go well.

Dutch journalists peppered Hoekstra with questions on unsubstantiated claims he made in 2015 about chaos that the “Islamic movement” had allegedly brought to the Netherlands.

“There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned,” he said then, at a conference hosted by a conservative group. “And yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands.”

The comments have widely been described as inaccurate, and seem to reflect certain conspiracy theories about sharia law that crop up in some circles of the far-right in the West. When pressed by the Dutch reporters, Hoekstra declined to retract the comments or give specific examples to back them up.

In fact, after saying that he would not be “revisiting the issue,” he simply refused to answer the question at all.

But the reporters were not done with the line of questioning. Instead of moving on, another reporter would simply ask a variation of the query again.

“Everybody there had one question: That crazy statement you made, are you going to withdraw it?” Roel Geeraedts, a political reporter at the Dutch television station RTL Nieuws, said in a phone interview about the event. “We were not getting answers, so we all kept asking it.”

Geeraedts published a segment with video of the remarkable exchange on social media.

After at least one person had already asked the question, Geeraedts followed up to ask Hoekstra about a John Adams quote — Adams was America's first ambassador to Holland — that was mounted right behind the new ambassador.

Hoekstra said he had read the quote, which expresses Adams's hope that only “honest and wise men ever rule under this roof.”

“If you’re truly an honest and wise man, could you please take back the remark about burned politicians or name the politician that was burned in the Netherlands?” Geeraedts asked.

An uncomfortable silence followed the question.

* * *​
“Excuse me, I asked you a question,” Geeraedts said.

Another journalist jumped in.

“Mr. Ambassador, can you mention any example of a Dutch politician who was burned in recent years?”

Again, silence, as Hoekstra stared around the room.

“This is the Netherlands — you have to answer questions,” another reporter said.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thIRJLsnIxY[/ame]

(Washington Post)​


----------



## FeXL

The first incorrect assumption you make is that Prog reporters & the MSM (but I repeat myself) _ever_ had cajones in the first place.

The rest is merely academic...



CubaMark said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if reporters in the U.S. and Canada had the cajones these folks carry around?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _Wouldn't it be nice if reporters in the U.S. and Canada had the cajones these folks carry around?_
> 
> 
> 
> *Reporters to Trump ambassador: ‘This is the Netherlands — you have to answer questions’*
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Hoekstra, the newly minted U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, held his first news conference with the Dutch media at his new residence in The Hague on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> It did not go well.
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch journalists peppered Hoekstra with questions on unsubstantiated claims he made in 2015 about chaos that the “Islamic movement” had allegedly brought to the Netherlands.
> 
> 
> 
> “There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned,” he said then, at a conference hosted by a conservative group. “And yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands.”
> 
> 
> 
> The comments have widely been described as inaccurate, and seem to reflect certain conspiracy theories about sharia law that crop up in some circles of the far-right in the West. When pressed by the Dutch reporters, Hoekstra declined to retract the comments or give specific examples to back them up.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, after saying that he would not be “revisiting the issue,” he simply refused to answer the question at all.
> 
> 
> 
> But the reporters were not done with the line of questioning. Instead of moving on, another reporter would simply ask a variation of the query again.
> 
> 
> 
> “Everybody there had one question: That crazy statement you made, are you going to withdraw it?” Roel Geeraedts, a political reporter at the Dutch television station RTL Nieuws, said in a phone interview about the event. “We were not getting answers, so we all kept asking it.”
> 
> 
> 
> Geeraedts published a segment with video of the remarkable exchange on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> After at least one person had already asked the question, Geeraedts followed up to ask Hoekstra about a John Adams quote — Adams was America's first ambassador to Holland — that was mounted right behind the new ambassador.
> 
> 
> 
> Hoekstra said he had read the quote, which expresses Adams's hope that only “honest and wise men ever rule under this roof.”
> 
> 
> 
> “If you’re truly an honest and wise man, could you please take back the remark about burned politicians or name the politician that was burned in the Netherlands?” Geeraedts asked.
> 
> 
> 
> An uncomfortable silence followed the question.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> “Excuse me, I asked you a question,” Geeraedts said.
> 
> 
> 
> Another journalist jumped in.
> 
> 
> 
> “Mr. Ambassador, can you mention any example of a Dutch politician who was burned in recent years?”
> 
> 
> 
> Again, silence, as Hoekstra stared around the room.
> 
> 
> 
> “This is the Netherlands — you have to answer questions,” another reporter said.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thIRJLsnIxY[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> (Washington Post)​




Perhaps he meant "metaphorically" burned?


----------



## FeXL

Further to this...

I'd love to hear the Clinton News Network ask Bill's Wife some pointed questions about her home-rolled server, Benghazi, Uranium 1, the Clinton Foundation and her Victory Fund, among a veritable slew of other topics.

I'd love to hear MotherJones ask Dianne Feinstein why she changed her story and Huma Abedin how classified emails with Bill's Wife ended up on Anthony Weiner's laptop.

I'd love any of the 90%+ leftist MSM in the US to have done their jobs for the last 30 years. Alas, they were all too busy kissing the arses of the next Prog they were trying to get elected.

Why do you s'pose I started the MSM Thread? To expose the hypocrisy, the narrative & the bias of the Prog media.

Welcome to the 80's, CM, when Bill's infidelity, sexual assaults & outright rapes in the White House & elsewhere were celebrated, not criticized.



CubaMark said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if reporters in the U.S. and Canada had the cajones these folks carry around?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Further to this...
> 
> Deflection
> 
> Misdirection
> 
> Deflection
> 
> Misdirection


Yup. Par for the course. Just like Trump himself, the bleating sheep who follow him cannot abide by any criticism of him or his government.

That, or someone just can't stand the thought of correcting fake news about muslims... :yawn:


----------



## eMacMan

An interesting situation. Deporting an individual who meets the criteria of American citizenship. 


> Jurado-Fernandez was born in Mexico and came to the U.S. as a teenager to join his parents, according to the American Friends Service Committee Colorado, which works with churches to house immigrants facing deportation.
> 
> His father is a U.S. citizen and his mother is a permanent resident, the group said.


US arrests spouse of Peruvian taking refuge in Colorado church | Colorado Springs Gazette, News

Wanna bet the IRS will claim he is an American citizen and milk him for everything he has?


----------



## SINC

So, one more theory bites the dust . . .

*Trump in 'excellent health,' White House doctor says after exam*

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## FeXL

Criticize away. By all means. _Especially_ the government.

Just be sure that you are fair in your criticism. You've been curiously silent for years on these boards regarding the MSM's complete absence of criticism of anything the left does. Suddenly one US ambassador under a non-Prog administration is reluctant to answer a question in The Netherlands & you wake up, nose out of joint and all up in arms?

WTF???

The balance of your post is crap & will be treated as such...

<flush...>



CubaMark said:


> Yup. Par for the course. Just like Trump himself, the bleating sheep who follow him cannot abide by any criticism of him or his government.


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

BREAKING: Indictment Handed Out In Russian Bribery Case Involving Uranium One, Hillary Clinton



> An 11-count indictment was handed out on Friday connected to the alleged Russian bribery scheme involving former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the Obama administration, and Uranium One.
> 
> The charges are against Mark Lambert, who is the "former co-president of a Maryland-based transportation company that provides services for the transportation of nuclear materials to customers in the United States and abroad." Lambert 54, of Maryland, was charged with "one count of conspiracy to violate the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) and to commit wire fraud, seven counts of violating the FCPA, two counts of wire fraud and one count of international promotion money laundering," the DOJ said in a statement.


That sucking sound you hear is Prog sphincters puckering the US over...


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> So, one more theory bites the dust . . .
> 
> *Trump in 'excellent health,' White House doctor says after exam*
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


Well..... the absence of proof is not a declaration of innocence, or in this case, mental stability. From the article you linked:



> Past presidents are not known to have been tested for mental acuity while in office - including Ronald Reagan, who five years after leaving the White House was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease.
> 
> The White House had made clear that Trump’s examination would not include a psychiatric exam. Results of past presidential physicals have included basic data like weight, blood pressure and cholesterol levels.
> 
> There is a long history of the White House picking and choosing what to reveal about the commander in chief’s health, said Barbara Perry, director of presidential studies at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center.


----------



## Macfury

SINC says Trump was healthy, CM. 

He wasn't addressing your knuckleheaded theories.


----------



## FeXL

You ever look in the mirror, CM?

Jes' askin.

'Cause in your particular case there is significant evidence of mental instability...



CubaMark said:


> ...the absence of proof is not a declaration of...mental stability.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You ever look in the mirror, CM?
> 
> 
> 
> Jes' askin.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause in your particular case there is significant evidence of mental instability...




That was ignorant.


----------



## Beej

> Meanwhile, we sit back and get drawn into these stupid tit-for-tat gotcha moments, which ultimately are insignificant.


And so it continues.


----------



## FeXL

Think so? Fine.

Tell me something, Freddie. Ya think it was more ignorant, less ignorant or contained about the same amount of ignorance as CM's Trump Derangement Syndrome-based observations about the President's mental health?

Or, CM's always flattering armchair shrink analyses of me which get sprinkled throughout these boards on a regular basis?

And, while I'm asking questions, where has your criticism been in all of those particular instances? Or is it simply acceptable behaviour in the eyes of the left to be a horse's ass when the target is someone from the right?

Couple more: With all there is to be legitimately critical of Trump, why is it that you Progs can only focus on meaningful stuff like the number of soft drinks he has in a day, big white vans that block your view of him on the golf course & whether or not he's nuts? Is it because that's the highest mental acuity you guys can muster? Real issues too much of a stretch?

Jes' askin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> That was ignorant.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Think so? Fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me something, Freddie. Ya think it was more ignorant, less ignorant or contained about the same amount of ignorance as CM's Trump Derangement Syndrome-based observations about the President's mental health?
> 
> 
> 
> Or, CM's always flattering armchair shrink analyses of me which get sprinkled throughout these boards on a regular basis?
> 
> 
> 
> And, while I'm asking questions, where has your criticism been in all of those particular instances? Or is it simply acceptable behaviour in the eyes of the left to be a horse's ass when the target is someone from the right?
> 
> 
> 
> Couple more: With all there is to be legitimately critical of Trump, why is it that you Progs can only focus on meaningful stuff like the number of soft drinks he has in a day, big white vans that block your view of him on the golf course & whether or not he's nuts? Is it because that's the highest mental acuity you guys can muster? Real issues too much of a stretch?
> 
> 
> 
> Jes' askin'...




More.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> .... Ya think it was more ignorant, less ignorant or contained about the same amount of ignorance as CM's Trump Derangement Syndrome-based observations about the President's mental health?...


Riiiiiiiight. 

As if *I'm the only fella on the planet who thinks Trump is off his rocker*. :heybaby:

Tear your eyes away from Breitbart, FoxNews or that dumb dead bunny website you frequent, and you might find there's a whole world out there (damn Liberal bias of reality!) that you apparently have never seen.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Lots of progs in world!



CubaMark said:


> Riiiiiiiight.
> 
> As if *I'm the only fella on the planet who thinks Trump is off his rocker*. :heybaby:
> 
> Tear your eyes away from Breitbart, FoxNews or that dumb dead bunny website you frequent, and you might find there's a whole world out there (damn Liberal bias of reality!) that you apparently have never seen.
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_Can you imagine what went through the minds of Hawaiians for 40 minutes today? Imagine as a parent having to decide which of your children or family members you would try to reach to be with them in your final moments? _

*Hawaii Panics After Alert About Incoming Missile Is Sent in Error*










An early-morning emergency alert mistakenly warning of an incoming ballistic missile attack was dispatched to cellphones across Hawaii on Saturday, setting off widespread panic in a state that was already on edge because of escalating tensions between the United States and North Korea.

The alert, sent by the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, was revoked 38 minutes after it was issued, prompting confusion over why it was released — and why it took so long to rescind. State officials and residents of a normally tranquil part of the Pacific, as well as tourists swept up in the panic, immediately expressed outrage.

* * *​
Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.

“Someone clicked the wrong thing on the computer,”

* * *​
The alert went out at about 8:10 a.m., lighting up phones of people still in bed, having coffee by the beach at a Waikiki resort, or up for an early surf. “BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL,” it read.

Hawaii has been on high emotional alert — it began staging monthly air-raid drills, complete with sirens, in December — since President Trump and Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea, began exchanging nuclear threats. Estimates vary, but it would take a little more than half an hour for a missile launched from North Korea to reach Hawaii, traversing an arc of roughly 5,700 miles. State officials said that residents here would have as little as 12 minutes to find shelter once an alert was issued.

Within moments of the first announcement, people flocked to shelters, crowding highways in scenes of terror and helplessness. Emergency sirens wailed in parts of the state, adding to the panic.

(NYTimes)​


----------



## CubaMark

Hawaii early this morning. I can't even....

https://giant.gfycat.com/UnsungDamagedDwarfrabbit.mp4


----------



## CubaMark

I know a certain someone in here thinks "Progs" believe the Clintons walk on water, but that simply reveals the limits of his analysis. I've stated before: the Democrats are far from "progressive". They are the flip side of the coin with Republicans on the other side.. both inherently the same thing, just with different flavours. 

The Clintons are longstanding players in the game, and as rotten as anyone else on the field. Their treatment of Haiti is particularly saddening... and it didn't begin with the post-earthquake donations scandal. You really need to go back to their efforts to use capitalism to "rescue" the country, which began with a despicable suppression of the Haitian minimum wage. Read more here:

*WHAT THE CLINTONS DID TO HAITI* | Current Affairs.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Then we've established 3 things:
1) You found CM's comment at least mildly ignorant;
2) You think that an insult is worse when I note it;
3) You've shown your bias.

Thank you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> More.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. As MF noted, lots of you Fruit Loops & Whackos do...



CubaMark said:


> As if *I'm the only fella on the planet who thinks Trump is off his rocker*.


Why? So I can get cranio-rectal inversion like you? Thanks, but no thanks.

Dead bunny? You may want to start rationing those peyote buttons...



CubaMark said:


> Tear your eyes away from Breitbart, FoxNews or that dumb dead bunny website you frequent...


Ah, yes. The old Prog, "It's reality that's FUBAR'd, not us" card. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

You haven't played that one in a while.



CubaMark said:


> ...and you might find there's a whole world out there (damn Liberal bias of reality!) that you apparently have never seen.


----------



## Macfury

There we get the bias--it's not Kim's threats to hit US territory with a missile that are at fault. It's Trump that makes Hawaii scared. Priceless!



CubaMark said:


> _Can you imagine what went through the minds of Hawaiians for 40 minutes today? Imagine as a parent having to decide which of your children or family members you would try to reach to be with them in your final moments? _
> 
> *Hawaii Panics After Alert About Incoming Missile Is Sent in Error*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An early-morning emergency alert mistakenly warning of an incoming ballistic missile attack was dispatched to cellphones across Hawaii on Saturday, setting off widespread panic in a state that was already on edge because of escalating tensions between the United States and North Korea.
> 
> The alert, sent by the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, was revoked 38 minutes after it was issued, prompting confusion over why it was released — and why it took so long to rescind. State officials and residents of a normally tranquil part of the Pacific, as well as tourists swept up in the panic, immediately expressed outrage.
> 
> * * *​
> Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.
> 
> “Someone clicked the wrong thing on the computer,”
> 
> * * *​
> The alert went out at about 8:10 a.m., lighting up phones of people still in bed, having coffee by the beach at a Waikiki resort, or up for an early surf. “BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL,” it read.
> 
> Hawaii has been on high emotional alert — it began staging monthly air-raid drills, complete with sirens, in December — since President Trump and Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea, began exchanging nuclear threats. Estimates vary, but it would take a little more than half an hour for a missile launched from North Korea to reach Hawaii, traversing an arc of roughly 5,700 miles. State officials said that residents here would have as little as 12 minutes to find shelter once an alert was issued.
> 
> Within moments of the first announcement, people flocked to shelters, crowding highways in scenes of terror and helplessness. Emergency sirens wailed in parts of the state, adding to the panic.
> 
> (NYTimes)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Good. Then we've established 3 things:
> 
> 1) You found CM's comment at least mildly ignorant;
> 
> 2) You think that an insult is worse when I note it;
> 
> 3) You've shown your bias.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.




Nope. You assume too much.


----------



## FeXL

I assumed nothing. The facts speak for themselves.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. You assume too much.


----------



## SINC

Yup . . .


----------



## Beej

Why move? Sunshine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration#Europe

Oslo makes Seattle seem sunny.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## eMacMan

If nothing else this shows how effective Lamestream propaganda mill is. The Lamestream has been pounding the North Korean war drums for an extended period of time. 

The North Korean leader can look back to the devastation his nation suffered in the 1950s. General LeMay estimated that US bombings killed over 20% of North Koreans. True figures come in at closer to 30%. Over 8 million dead. Seventy eight cities and countless villages destroyed. He can also see what has happened to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria, other Lamestream propaganda targets. Deciding his countries only hope is nuclear is an inevitable conclusion.

Is he going to attack the US? Not if he wants his to nation survive. Will he retaliate against an attack if able? Almost certainly. Is he any more wacko than Trump or Hiliary? On a par yes, more so, no.

Yet the Lamestream propaganda mill has been so successful, that an entire state literally swallowed the swill hook line and sinker, cowering under their desks and waiting for the bright flash.



CubaMark said:


> _Can you imagine what went through the minds of Hawaiians for 40 minutes today? Imagine as a parent having to decide which of your children or family members you would try to reach to be with them in your final moments? _
> 
> *Hawaii Panics After Alert About Incoming Missile Is Sent in Error*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An early-morning emergency alert mistakenly warning of an incoming ballistic missile attack was dispatched to cellphones across Hawaii on Saturday, setting off widespread panic in a state that was already on edge because of escalating tensions between the United States and North Korea.
> 
> The alert, sent by the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, was revoked 38 minutes after it was issued, prompting confusion over why it was released — and why it took so long to rescind. State officials and residents of a normally tranquil part of the Pacific, as well as tourists swept up in the panic, immediately expressed outrage.
> 
> * * *​
> Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.
> 
> “Someone clicked the wrong thing on the computer,”
> 
> * * *​
> The alert went out at about 8:10 a.m., lighting up phones of people still in bed, having coffee by the beach at a Waikiki resort, or up for an early surf. “BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL,” it read.
> 
> Hawaii has been on high emotional alert — it began staging monthly air-raid drills, complete with sirens, in December — since President Trump and Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea, began exchanging nuclear threats. Estimates vary, but it would take a little more than half an hour for a missile launched from North Korea to reach Hawaii, traversing an arc of roughly 5,700 miles. State officials said that residents here would have as little as 12 minutes to find shelter once an alert was issued.
> 
> Within moments of the first announcement, people flocked to shelters, crowding highways in scenes of terror and helplessness. Emergency sirens wailed in parts of the state, adding to the panic.
> 
> (NYTimes)​


----------



## CubaMark

*Donald Trump tried to show you he's sane and stable. His week became a running fiasco*

An explosive new book had called into question his mental fitness, so the president had a showman’s brainwave. He would throw open the doors to a private meeting on immigration, letting television cameras capture him in command, at length, at his familiar spot at the centre of a boardroom table.

The plan didn’t go perfectly. Trump was vague and contradictory. He did not seem to understand policy terminology, much less policy itself.

But he was involved and subdued, and if it seemed that the country was being run by an ignoramus, it did not seem obvious, in those 55 minutes at least, that it was being run by someone unhinged. He got the usual praise from television pundits eager to find something nice to say.

Then came Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Within 60 hours of the Trump’s self-described “performance” at the immigration meeting, the wheels had fallen off. As so often with this president, a brief stab at model behaviour was immediately followed by an eruption of his worst traits.

“Watching people lower the bar on his first meeting, the willingness of a lot of people in the media to say, ‘Well OK he at least looked coherent; he was ignorant and uninformed but at least he didn’t do the crazy uncle routine’ — the phrase going through my head the whole time was: give it a day,” said Charlie Sykes, a conservative MSNBC analyst and a Trump critic. “How many times have we gone through this? This whiplash: these little windows where he behaves himself, and there’s always an expiration date. And it comes very quickly.”

* * *​
There was the narcissism: Trump spent a startlingly large chunk of a Wall Street Journal interview lavishing over-the-top praise on himself — hailing his intelligence (“I’m smarter than all of them put together”), business acumen (“I created maybe the greatest brand”), debating record (“I don’t think you’ll find one poll that I ever lost in any of the 14, 15 debates”), even his athletic prowess (“I was always the best athlete, people don’t know that”).

There was the impulsiveness-ignorance combo: Trump, who begins most weekdays tweeting responses to the fawning Fox News show Fox and Friends, alarmed his party by confusedly repeating a Fox guest’s criticism of surveillance legislation for which his White House was lobbying in favour. House Speaker Paul Ryan was forced to spend a frantic half-hour explaining the legislation to the president over the phone, the Washington Post reported. After 101 minutes, Trump tweeted a second tweet to declare that he actually supported the bill he had mocked.

There was the thin skin: Trump announced, in a tweet just before midnight on Thursday, that he had cancelled his planned visit to London, where he was likely to face protests.

There was the obsession with his predecessor: Trump implausibly claimed he was calling off the trip because he opposes Barack Obama’s sale of the U.S. embassy in an upscale London neighbourhood. In fact, it was George W. Bush’s administration that decided to move the embassy, largely for security reasons.

There was the obsession with his defeated opponent: At a Wednesday news conference with the prime minister of Norway, Trump twice brought up Hillary Clinton without direct prompting. He disparaged Clinton again on Twitter on Thursday morning, then in the interview soon afterward.

There, as always, was the incessant dishonesty: Trump made at least 10 false claims, on subjects running the gamut from the size of trade deficits to the size of his victory in the Electoral College. During a cabinet meeting on Wednesday, Trump lied that “a lot” of television anchors sent him “letters” to tell him his immigration meeting was "one of the greatest meetings they've ever witnessed.”

Pressed for evidence, the White House released a list of complimentary tweets, not letters, from journalists who are not anchors.

(MetroNews)​


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Yup . . .


SINC, I don't agree with any of those things. Would choose the USA!


----------



## Macfury

You are definitely no political strategist, CM. He's moving the Overton Window and doing a damned good job of it. The MSM is so blind with unreasoned rage, they're helping him do it.



CubaMark said:


> *Donald Trump tried to show you he's sane and stable. His week became a running fiasco*


----------



## FeXL

An explosive new book? Do you even read the f'ing news? The author of said tome admitted that much of the book was idle speculation with nothing, zero, to back up some of what he claimed.

That puts the whole publication in doubt. I guess that's close enough for the compassionate, intellectual, leftist <spit> Progs. 

"Somebody parked a white vaaaaaan in front of Trump's golf cooooourse!!!" :---(

FFS...



CubaMark said:


> _An explosive new book had called into question his mental fitness_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> An explosive new book? Do you even read the f'ing news? The author of said tome admitted that much of the book was idle speculation with nothing, zero, to back up some of what he claimed.
> 
> 
> 
> That puts the whole publication in doubt. I guess that's close enough for the compassionate, intellectual, leftist <spit> Progs.
> 
> 
> 
> "Somebody parked a white vaaaaaan in front of Trump's golf cooooourse!!!" :---(
> 
> 
> 
> FFS...




Touchy.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Touchy.


We'll note your touchiness and try to tread lightly, Freddie. Just today or a permanent condition?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> We'll note your touchiness and try to tread lightly, Freddie. Just today or a permanent condition?




We'll?


----------



## Macfury

The EhMac community!



Freddie_Biff said:


> We'll?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The EhMac community!



You seem to have an inflated sense of your self importance if you think you represent the ehMac community, all ten of us. In any event, it is FeXL's response that reflected a touchy nature. You misread intentionally.


----------



## Macfury

In a bad mood, Freddie? That's how you're coming across.


----------



## FeXL

Well, there goes another armchair shrink Prog narrative...

Very Stable Genius



> Dr. Ronny Jackson said that while he had no intention of giving Trump a cognitive exam, the President specifically asked him to do one and passed https://t.co/TbAMnVHGuI https://t.co/ma3Uh60MKZ
> — CNN (@CNN) January 16, 2018


Must have damn near killed the Clinton News Network to report that...

Related:

Press In Feeding Frenzy Over President's Health, Demanding to Know if Trump is Demented and Demanding to Know What His _Life Expectancy_ Might Be



> The press had two questions in mind:
> 
> 1. Can we remove him for unfitness via the 25th Amendment?
> 
> and,
> 
> 2. If not, _when's he gonna die already?!_
> 
> This is journalism.


Related, too:

In Aftermath of Trump's Clean Bill of Cognitive Health, The "Experts" of the Media Have a New Mantra: _Ignore What The Experts Tell You_



> Out: Trust the experts
> 
> In: Ignore the experts, listen to the media with no expertise on anything at all


The only ones who are nuts are the Progs, RINO's & MSM with Trump Derangement Syndrome... :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

While we're destroying Prog narratives...

73 percent of terrorists convicted in the U.S. were foreign born: DHS report



> Most people convicted of international terrorism in U.S. courts since 2001 were foreign born, the Trump administration said in a new report Tuesday that officials said boosts the president’s travel ban.
> 
> U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement also had more than 2,500 encounters with people who appear on the FBI’s terrorist watch list in 2017, the administration said. And since 2001 deportation officers have ousted more than 1,700 foreigners over national security concerns.


More:



> The new report found at least 549 people convicted of international terrorism charges in U.S. federal courts since the 2001 attacks. Of those, 254 weren’t citizens, and another 148 were foreign born but ended up getting U.S. citizenship through the immigration system.


Related:

One in Fifteen Oregon Prisoners Is a Criminal Alien; Nearly Half Convicted of Sex Crimes



> The murder of Kate Steinle in California highlighted the fact that we have a serious criminal illegal alien problem in this country. Many of these individuals, after breaking the law to enter the country, go on to commit other crimes — theft, rape, and even murder. David Olen Cross released a December 2017 report based on Oregon Department of Corrections (DOC) data, announcing that there are "973 foreign nationals (criminal aliens) incarcerated in the state’s prison system."
> 
> Oregon has 14,739 inmates incarcerated in its 14 prisons scattered across the state. "Approximately one in every fifteen prisoners incarcerated by the state was a criminal alien, 6.60 percent of the total prison population," the report said.


Related, too:

Newly Released Arizona Crime Data Just Shattered a Key Liberal Narrative on Immigration



> “Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of crime than other Arizonans,” Lott concludes from the data.
> 
> While documented immigrants, or legal permanent residents, accounted for 3.9 percent of Arizona’s population in 2014, but only 1.5 percent of the prison population (which again shows why it’s inaccurate to lump documented and undocumented immigrants for any statistical purposes), undocumented immigrants account for 11.6 percent of first and second most serious offenses.
> 
> Further, undocumented immigrants in Arizona are consistently more likely to be convicted of murder, manslaughter, armed robbery, sexual assault of a minor, sexual assault, DUI or DWI, and kidnapping, among other serious crimes. And undocumented immigrants are 163 percent more likely to commit first degree murder than are U.S. citizens in the state.


----------



## FeXL

Inland Part of California Wants to Split Off from Coastal Progressive Power Centers and Form New, More Conservative State



> How about the progressive part of California just secedes from the United States?
> 
> Think about it, progressives: 90% tax rates, guns illegal for everyone except politicians and celebrities and millionaires, and Obama can run for president.
> 
> Come on, fellas. You know you want it.


:love2:

More:



> _With the reading of their own version of a Declaration of Independence, founders of the state of New California took the first steps to what they hope will eventually lead to statehood.
> 
> To be clear, they don't want to leave the United States, just California.
> 
> "Well, it's been ungovernable for a long time. High taxes, education, you name it, and we're rated around 48th or 50th from a business climate and standpoint in California," said founder Robert Paul Preston.
> 
> The state of New California would incorporate most of the state's rural counties, leaving the urban coastal counties to the current state of California._​


San Diego in NewCal? Good.

I likes me San Diego...


----------



## Macfury

And of course, if California can secede from the US, by the same logic New California can secede from the chunk that the progs have ruined.


----------



## Beej

*Outrage*

Anyone heard of the rant ("passionate rebuke") Cory Booker presented to Kirstjen Neilsen?

I am going to highlight on an odd bit that did not seem to get much focus:


> When Dick Durbin called me I had tears of rage when I heard about this experience in that meeting and for you not to feel that hurt and that pain...


My transcription, sorry for any errors. Source:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...ate-hearing/MxBDFW1PaptEb5Y0ceJRoM/story.html

Outrage at someone who did not feel hurt and pain upon hearing what the president said? This is a long way from Bill Clinton's "I feel your pain" line. A claim to empathy (Clinton) versus...?


----------



## Macfury

That's brutal. Cory Booker is an emotional dishrag to begin with, but to expect a strong woman to follow him down to his enfeebled emotional level is hard to stomach.



Beej said:


> Anyone heard of the rant ("passionate rebuke") Cory Booker presented to Kirstjen Neilsen?
> 
> I am going to highlight on an odd bit that did not seem to get much focus:
> 
> 
> My transcription, sorry for any errors. Source:
> https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...ate-hearing/MxBDFW1PaptEb5Y0ceJRoM/story.html
> 
> Outrage at someone who did not feel hurt and pain upon hearing what the president said? This is a long way from Bill Clinton's "I feel your pain" line. A claim to empathy (Clinton) versus...?


----------



## eMacMan

A more relevant example of Illegal immigrant violence than the previous extreme stretch. It even managed to make its way into the Lamestream.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-says-he-wishes-he-killed-more-cops/23335942/


----------



## eMacMan

Talk about corrupt city councils. Don't give the homeless money, knowing it will go to booze or drugs, I agree. Jail people for feeding the homeless? Totally insane. Pretty sure JC would rot in jail should he venture near El Cajon.
California Volunteers Share Food With The Homeless, Get Arrested By Police


----------



## FeXL

Hey, the Fake News Awards are out!!!

Donald Trump reveals winners of the Fake News Awards – and the media are absolutely losing it!



> The GOP hosted the “Highly Anticipated 2017 Fake News Awards.” Drum roll please.
> 
> Here is what the Republican National Committee announced, verbatim, in its entirety:
> 
> “2017 was a year of unrelenting bias, unfair news coverage, and even downright fake news. Studies have shown that over 90% of the media’s coverage of President Trump is negative.


CNN Wins Big Time In Trump’s Fake News Awards



> President Donald Trump unveiled his fake news awards Wednesday night with four prizes to CNN, two to The New York Times and one each for ABC News, Newsweek, Time magazine, and The Washington Post.


'They Are Not Serving You': Hannity Rips 'Twisted' Media After Trump's Fake News Awards



> President Donald Trump handed out his much anticipated "Fake News Awards" late Wednesday and Sean Hannity offered his take in his opening monologue.
> 
> The link to the Republican Party site where the awards were listed almost immediately crashed after the president's Twitter announcement.
> 
> The New York Times' Paul Krugman headlined the awards, winning first place for his 2016 premonition that the stock markets will "never recover" from Trump's election.
> 
> Krugman, also an economics professor at Princeton University in New Jersey, lamented Trump's election *and warned what his election would mean for the economy.*


M'bold.

What? That the Dow would hit 26,000 for the first time ever? _Very_ prescient...

Good job, boys. Congrats for all your hard work. Hope to see you here next year! :lmao:

Related:

Media: Companies Won’t Increase Wages for Workers Because of Tax Reform



> "It feels like you're relying on this tax cut of the corporations and the wealthy to trickle down," MSNBC reporter Katy Tur said.
> 
> "So you are creating a huge tax cut and you might not get wage growth," MSNBC anchor Stephanie Ruhle said.
> 
> "And anybody who thinks that this corporate tax cut is going to trickle down to lift wages has a staggering ignorance of how public companies function," MSNBC commentator Steve Schmidt declared.
> 
> "There are no examples anywhere of companies distributing their tax savings to their workers," MSNBC anchor Ali Velshi said.
> 
> "Who says that giving corporations more money will increase wages?" CNN anchor Chris Cuomo asked.
> 
> But after the tax bill became law, dozens of companies announced bonuses, wage increases, and new investments for their employees.
> 
> At least 81 companies have announced that they will invest more in their workers—in the form of bonuses, higher wages, or other benefits—since Trump signed the tax overhaul into law, the Washington Free Beacon reported Thursday, citing a Yahoo News report.


Yep.


----------



## Rps

Okay, but you do realize that many of the items were Tweets, and virtually all were corrected in short order. So, are tweets news.....I guess in today’s world they probably are....but also bear in mind that, yes there were some major drops by CNN, ABC, NBC....and there were suspensions and firings...and rightly so.....however, Trump himself has tweeted incorrect “news”....so do we wait for his retractions or even firing? Just saying the fake news river flows both ways.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Okay, but you do realize that many of the items were Tweets, and virtually all were corrected in short order. So, are tweets news.....


The perpetually offended left certainly seems to think Trump's are. Sauce for the gander...

As far as corrections go, IMHO if they had ben fact checked in the first place there would have been no need. Many of these tweets had thousands of viewings (or more) long before the corrections came out, which always had far less exposure. The damage was already done & the narrative established.



Rps said:


> Just saying the fake news river flows both ways.


No argument. However, I see it as a matter of scale...


----------



## FeXL

Damn Trump and his infernal tax policy!!!

Apple Says It Will Repatriate $250 Billion to US in Next Five Years, Add 20,000 Jobs in the US



> Actually, they say they'll be "contributing" $350 billion ($100 billion more than the $250 billion they have in foreign accounts) to America. They might be talking about another $100 billion in capital investments in the US, plus the impact of adding 20,000 jobs. They might also be contemplating direct donations to charitable causes or starting their own charitable foundation, as some companies have done in the wake of tax reform.
> 
> Not sure how they come to that particular $350 billion figure.
> 
> *But anyway, they're bringing practically all their offshore money into the US, and will wind up paying $38 billion in taxes (to America) for that privilege.*


Yeah, my bold.

More:



> Preview of the media headlines:
> 
> *Thousands of Americans Feared Dead Under Avalanche of Cash Money*


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

So, this is interesting...

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It's Not Illegal



> A four-page memo circulating in Congress that reveals alleged United States government surveillance abuses is being described by lawmakers as "shocking," "troubling" and "alarming," with one congressman likening the details to KGB activity in Russia.
> 
> Speaking with Fox News, the lawmakers said they could not yet discuss the contents of the memo they reviewed on Thursday after it was released to members by the House Intelligence Committee. But they say the memo should be immediately made public.
> 
> "It is so alarming the American people have to see this," Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan said.
> 
> "It's troubling. It is shocking," North Carolina Rep. Mark Meadows said. "Part of me wishes that I didn't read it because I don't want to believe that those kinds of things could be happening in this country that I call home and love so much."
> 
> *Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz said he believed people could lose their jobs after the memo is released.*


M'bold.

One can only hope.

More:



> The vote Thursday morning on releasing the memo to lawmakers was along party lines, with Democrats voting against making it available for all members.


'Course! Can't have the narrative broken...

Related:

House Intelligence Committee Votes To Reveal “The Big Ugly”…



> The House Intelligence Committee voted today to allow all congressional members to view a summary report of classified documents behind the “Clinton Dossier”.
> 
> As Byron York writes in the Washington Examiner: “At the committee’s meeting Thursday morning, Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., offered a motion to allow all House members to review a brief report prepared by the Republican majority summarizing the panel’s investigation into what GOP members call “FISA abuse.””
> 
> All of the Republicans voted to allow the sunlight, Adam Schiff and all the Democrats on the committee voted to block the sunlight.


Tangentially related



> 9) while that's going on, something else boiling over like molten lava coming out of a volcano: @DevinNunes released his report of FISA Abuse to entire House of Reps. *It contains undeniable proof that president obama collaborated w Team Hillary using FBI, DOJ, IC to stage a Coup*


Reminder to self: Time to purchase popcorn futures...


----------



## FeXL

One more reason why.

57.9% of Illegals Caught at U.S.-Mexico Border in FY17 Not Mexican; From 111 Other Countries



> Only 42.1 percent of the “deportable aliens” that the U.S. Border Patrol apprehended along the U.S.-Mexico border in fiscal 2017 were citizens of Mexico, according to data collected by U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
> 
> A significant majority—57.9 percent—came from 111 other countries.
> 
> *In fact, during fiscal year 2017, the Border Patrol apprehended deportable aliens along the U.S.-Mexico border who came from 84 countries that are not in the Americas.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

DeVos: 'At the U.S. Department of Education, Common Core is Dead'



> “As states and districts scrambled to avoid the law’s sanctions and maintain their federal funding, some resorted to focusing specifically on math and reading at the expense of other subjects; others simply inflated scores or lowered standards. The trend line remains troubling today,” she said.
> 
> “According to the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress data, two-thirds of American fourth-graders still can’t read at the level they should, and since 2013 our 8th-grade reading scores have declined.”
> 
> DeVos said the Obama administration’s education policies did not yield better results.
> 
> “The Obama administration dangled billions of dollars through the ‘Race to the Top’ competition, and the grant-making process not so subtly encouraged states to adopt the Common Core State Standards. With a price tag of nearly four and a half billion dollars, it was billed as the largest-ever federal investment in school reform,” she said.
> 
> “Later, the department would give states a waiver from NCLB’s requirements so long as they adopted the Obama administration’s preferred policies — essentially making law while Congress negotiated the reauthorization of ESEA,” she added.


----------



## Macfury

Obama's devastating legacy has almost completely been erased. Good! That's the problem with trying to govern through executive orders and under-the-table deals. 



FeXL said:


> Good.
> 
> DeVos: 'At the U.S. Department of Education, Common Core is Dead'


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Obama's devastating legacy has almost completely been erased. Good! That's the problem with trying to govern through executive orders and under-the-table deals.


Winning! And Draining the Swamp. And Bill's Wife is not POTUS.

Beautimous maximus...


----------



## FeXL

Further on that repressive GOP tax reform.

Chrysler Brings Jobs Back From Mexico



> Chrysler is not only going to join companies such as Walmart, Boeing and AT&T in paying bonuses to workers as a result of the tax reform package passed last month; the automaker will also boost jobs in Michigan by 2,500 as it shifts truck production from Mexico.
> 
> Chrysler announced a $2,000 per worker bonus this week along with the additional jobs reports Fox Business:
> 
> _The creation of 2,500 new jobs will support an expansion at Fiat Chrysler’s Warren Truck Assembly Plant in Michigan. Fiat Chrysler said the tax plan will enable the company to invest more than $1 billion in additional funds in the factory, where it will build the next generation of Ram heavy-duty pickup trucks once production shifts from Mexico in 2020._​


More:



> *Chrysler is just the latest in a long line of companies that have increased employment, wages or paid bonuses since the tax reform plan was passed in December.*


Emphasis mine.

2500 jobs here, a billion dollars invested there. Pretty soon we're talking real money.

Remember: Merely peanuts for millionaire politicians...


----------



## FeXL

Now, charge the bastards & throw 'em all in jail.

Bombshell: Simpson Admits Fusion GPS Went to the Press to Salvage Hillary’s Campaign



> There you have it: James Comey’s announcement that he was reopening the Hillary email investigation–an investigation in which he eventually whitewashed Mrs. Clinton, notwithstanding unequivocal evidence of crimes on her part–triggered a response. Hillary, or the DNC, ordered Simpson and Steele to promote to the press their quarter-baked dossier of fabrication and speculation, in an effort to counterbalance Comey’s reopening of the email investigation. That pretty much tells you all you need to know.


----------



## FeXL

These ones, too.

#ReleaseTheMemo: Congressmen, Government Officials Tout Report on FISA Abuse They Say Will Rock Country and Implicate Obama



> _ I viewed the classified report from House Intel relating to the FBI, FISA abuses, the infamous Russian dossier, and so-called "Russian collusion." What I saw is absolutely shocking.
> 
> This report needs to be released--now. Americans deserve the truth. #ReleaseTheMemo pic.twitter.com/oP2UNujKQL
> — Mark Meadows (@RepMarkMeadows) January 19, 2018_​
> 
> _"I think that this will not end just with firings. I believe there are people who will go to jail. You don’t get to try to undermine our country, undermine our elections and then simply get fired." #ReleaseTheMemo #ReleaseTheDocuments https://t.co/M6HwVVw3Qk
> — Rep. Matt Gaetz (@RepMattGaetz) January 19, 2018_​


But wait:



> _ So a Senior Fellow at Media Matters for America has implied that the #ReleaseTheMemo Twitter trend is a...wait for it...Russian conspiracy. pic.twitter.com/f5ezPnPWxl
> — Far Left Watch (@FarLeftWatch) January 19, 2018_​


Yes! The Russkies!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.











+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






.


----------



## CubaMark

*Women's March 2018 signs:*

Make America Smart Again

First We Marched, Now We're Running (For Office)

Does This Ass Make My Country Look Small?

Grab 'em By The Midterms

Super Callous, Facist, Racist, Sexist, Braggadocious

Women Are The Wall And Trump Will Pay

Too Much Bulls*** For One Sign

They tried to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds.

Elect A Clown, Get A Circus

Without Hermione, Harry Would Have DIED

I know signs. I make the best signs. They're terrific. Everyone agrees.​
(Doonesbury)​
*This one's on the money:*









(Crooks & Liars)​
*Related:*_ One year later, thousands return for Women's March with spirits undaunted_


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Women's March 2018 signs:*
> 
> 
> 
> Make America Smart Again
> 
> 
> 
> First We Marched, Now We're Running (For Office)
> 
> 
> 
> Does This Ass Make My Country Look Small?
> 
> 
> 
> Grab 'em By The Midterms
> 
> 
> 
> Super Callous, Facist, Racist, Sexist, Braggadocious
> 
> 
> 
> Women Are The Wall And Trump Will Pay
> 
> 
> 
> Too Much Bulls*** For One Sign
> 
> 
> 
> They tried to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds.
> 
> 
> 
> Elect A Clown, Get A Circus
> 
> 
> 
> Without Hermione, Harry Would Have DIED
> 
> 
> 
> I know signs. I make the best signs. They're terrific. Everyone agrees.​
> 
> 
> (Doonesbury)​
> 
> 
> *This one's on the money:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Crooks & Liars)​
> 
> 
> *Related:*_ One year later, thousands return for Women's March with spirits undaunted_




Awesome!


----------



## Macfury

I think this says it all:



> *A year after millions of women and men demonstrated* in cities around the globe in an extraordinary rebuke of Donald Trump, crowds returned to the streets on Saturday.
> *
> Tens of thousands turned out in Washington, New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and hundreds of other cities across the US and the world*.


I think it's "awesome" that the number of protesters has dwindled to a fraction!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Except the Democrats have run away from the table--and America knows it. Winning big-league!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Except the Democrats have run away from the table--and America knows it. Winning big-league!


Daniel Bush at PBS provides a clear, non-partisan explanation of the US Gov't shutdown debacle: *Who’s to blame for the government shutdown? A look at the political fallout (so far)*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Daniel Bush at PBS provides a clear, non-partisan explanation of the US Gov't shutdown debacle: *Who’s to blame for the government shutdown? A look at the political fallout (so far)*




A President who has a majority in the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court is powerless to prevent a government shutdown. Speaks volumes.


----------



## Macfury

Clearly, you have no idea how the US government budget process works. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> A President who has a majority in the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court is powerless to prevent a government shutdown. Speaks volumes.


----------



## CubaMark

*President Trump's First Year Of Job Growth Was Below President Obama's Last Six Years*

On Friday the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the economy added 148,000 nonfarm jobs in December but only 139,000 when the revisions for October and November are included. A better way to understand how the job market is doing is to include the revisions and look at a multi-month average. This is especially important due to the impact of Hurricanes Harvey and Irma since September only added 38,000 jobs.

Over the September to December timeframe, there were 163,000 additional jobs per month and for the year 171,000 jobs were added monthly. This compares to President Obama’s last six years where the job market averaged at least 174,000 per month and hit 250,000 in 2014. It isn’t too surprising that job growth has slowed since the unemployment rate has dropped to very low levels.

While the job number was below expectations, the Dow Industrials increased 220 points or 0.9%, the S&P 500 was up 19 points or 0.7% and the NASDAQ gained 58 or 0.8%.

President Trump’s goal is for 25 million more jobs over 10 years, and for last year 2.06 million jobs were added. Since the job market naturally grows by 1% to 2% a year the 25 million should be made without much help from policies such as tax reform. One impediment from hitting 25 million could be lower immigration especially since the unemployment rate is at 4.1% and the US’ population only provides 60,000 to 80,000 people entering the job market per month.

The unemployment rate remained 4.1%, which is the lowest since December 2000’s 3.9% when the GDP grew 4.1% during the tech bubble. The participation rate of 62.7% has been essentially flat over the past four years, which also means it will be hard to increase the number of jobs added by much more than 2 million per year.

(Forbes)​


----------



## Macfury

It isn't a debacle. Almost all of the federal government continues to function as normal--only some employees get a short vacation with pay.

That analysis correctly points out that Trump outplayed the Dems on both the budget and DACA.



CubaMark said:


> Daniel Bush at PBS provides a clear, non-partisan explanation of the US Gov't shutdown debacle: *Who’s to blame for the government shutdown? A look at the political fallout (so far)*


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> A President who has a majority in the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court is powerless to prevent a government shutdown. Speaks volumes.


Actually, it does as 5 Republican Senators voted against the bill. As it takes a 60% yes votes that is a large number of WHIP misses. Trump wants to drop the hurdle to 51 instead of 60. I’m not sure I think that is a good thing when you consider how the add ons to get votes in many cases have little to do with the bill at hand.


----------



## Macfury

Why not go with Obama's last eight years?



CubaMark said:


> *President Trump's First Year Of Job Growth Was Below President Obama's Last Six Years*
> 
> On Friday the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the economy added 148,000 nonfarm jobs in December but only 139,000 when the revisions for October and November are included. A better way to understand how the job market is doing is to include the revisions and look at a multi-month average. This is especially important due to the impact of Hurricanes Harvey and Irma since September only added 38,000 jobs.
> 
> Over the September to December timeframe, there were 163,000 additional jobs per month and for the year 171,000 jobs were added monthly. This compares to President Obama’s last six years where the job market averaged at least 174,000 per month and hit 250,000 in 2014. It isn’t too surprising that job growth has slowed since the unemployment rate has dropped to very low levels.
> 
> While the job number was below expectations, the Dow Industrials increased 220 points or 0.9%, the S&P 500 was up 19 points or 0.7% and the NASDAQ gained 58 or 0.8%.
> 
> President Trump’s goal is for 25 million more jobs over 10 years, and for last year 2.06 million jobs were added. Since the job market naturally grows by 1% to 2% a year the 25 million should be made without much help from policies such as tax reform. One impediment from hitting 25 million could be lower immigration especially since the unemployment rate is at 4.1% and the US’ population only provides 60,000 to 80,000 people entering the job market per month.
> 
> The unemployment rate remained 4.1%, which is the lowest since December 2000’s 3.9% when the GDP grew 4.1% during the tech bubble. The participation rate of 62.7% has been essentially flat over the past four years, which also means it will be hard to increase the number of jobs added by much more than 2 million per year.
> 
> (Forbes)​


----------



## Rps

McFury, it’s not like the shut down is new. In the past 40 years or so they have had 19, so do the math it is almost no news what so ever. I think Reagan had one every year.


----------



## Macfury

Republicans who voted "No" did not want to vote on a temporary budget but on a permanent one. Rand Paul opposed spending levels (good for him!).



Rps said:


> Actually, it does as 5 Republican Senators voted against the bill. As it takes a 60% yes votes that is a large number of WHIP misses. Trump wants to drop the hurdle to 51 instead of 60. I’m not sure I think that is a good thing when you consider how the add ons to get votes in many cases have little to do with the bill at hand.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Republicans who voted "No" did not want to vote on a temporary budget but on a permanent one. Rand Paul opposed spending levels (good for him!).


That’s irrelevant, they called for a vote and didn’t get it done. That’s like saying we would have won the Stanley Cup, but it’s such a short term tournament we decided not to play.


----------



## Macfury

Not at all. I don't think Trump wanted the budget to pass and they were counting on those opposing continuing resolutions to ensure that outcome.



Rps said:


> That’s irrelevant, they called for a vote and didn’t get it done. That’s like saying we would have won the Stanley Cup, but it’s such a short term tournament we decided not to play.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Not at all. I don't think Trump wanted the budget to pass and they were counting on those opposing continuing resolutions to ensure that outcome.


I don’t buy that. We will see how Mr. Warmth handles the no voters. BTW, lets see how he handles the Dems who voted yes as well. I think there were 2 Independents who voted no as well.


----------



## Macfury

How do you expect Trump to "handle" them? The outcome was no surprise at all considering McCain can't vote and Mike Lee never votes "YES" on a continuing resolution.



Rps said:


> I don’t buy that. We will see how Mr. Warmth handles the no voters. BTW, lets see how he handles the Dems who voted yes as well. I think there were 2 Independents who voted no as well.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Clearly, you have no idea how the US government budget process works.


*Apparently, neither does Donald Trump:*

*Donald Trump placed blame solely on president during last government shutdown*










In 2013, several Tea Party senators led a charge to defund Obamacare. While the president was a Democrat, Barack Obama, the Republicans controlled the House as the Democrats held a similar majority to what the current Republicans hold in the Senate.

Current U.S. President Donald Trump has naturally placed the blame for the current shutdown on the Democrats.

* * *​
Similar to the current shutdown, where blame can be placed on all sides, depending on whom a person supports, Trump believed one man was to blame in 2013: Obama.

During a Fox & Friends interview in 2013, he said Obama was ultimately responsible.

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that in the future, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

* * *​
Two years earlier, there was another near-shutdown. Trump had a one-on-one with NBC’s Meredith Vieira at the time, and spoke of the situation.

Vieira asked whether he was in favour of partial shutdown and Trump responded, “In my opinion — you know, I hear the Democrats are going to be blamed and the Republicans are going to be blamed. *I actually think the president would be blamed.* If there is a shutdown, and it’s not going to be a horrible shutdown because, as you know, things will sort of keep going…. If there is a shutdown I think it would be a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States. He’s the one that has to get people together.”

(Global)​


----------



## Macfury

Trump will definitely be blamed by some. So your point is?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> McFury, it’s not like the shut down is new. In the past 40 years or so they have had 19, so do the math it is almost no news what so ever. I think Reagan had one every year.




Clearly McFury does not understand how the US budget process works.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> McFury, it’s not like the shut down is new. In the past 40 years or so they have had 19, so do the math it is almost no news what so ever. I think Reagan had one every year.


Of course it isn't new. Loved seeing Reagan do that--and the Republican conservative base actually likes them a lot.


----------



## Macfury

That's the weakest zinger of the year so far--though you still have time to top it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Clearly McFury does not understand how the US budget process works.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, 20 years ago this month Slick Willie used an intern as a humidor!

In All Of The Excitement I Forgot...

Those look like Cohiba's...


----------



## Macfury

I remember the Dems back then: "Of course he lied... he was trying to cover up an adulterous affair!"



FeXL said:


> Hey, 20 years ago this month Slick Willie used an intern as a humidor!
> 
> In All Of The Excitement I Forgot...
> 
> Those look like Cohiba's...


----------



## FeXL

What Progs do in the face of tax reform.

California politicians eye huge hike in corporate taxes in response to federal tax reform



> Just before Christmas, President Donald Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that has set America’s economy on a trajectory to prosperity and put wealth back in the hands of its citizens.
> 
> The new rules also substantially reduced the country’s corporate tax rate to 21 percent, down from a fairly hefty 35 percent. Now, a pair of California Grinches are offering a bill that would ultimately divert some of the federal savings back into Sacramento coffers.
> 
> *In perhaps the most magnificent example of irony I have ever seen, the two Democratic assemblymen are referring to their proposal as “Middle Class Tax Justice“.*
> 
> _Democratic Assemblymen Kevin McCarty of Sacramento and Phil Ting of San Francisco announced Thursday that they will pursue a constitutional amendment to add a surcharge on large companies that do business in California, potentially raising billions of dollars to expand social services for Californians.
> 
> “We’ve seen enough billionaire justice from the presidency,” McCarty said in an interview. “It’s time for middle class tax justice.”_​
> McCarty’s and Ting’s money-grabbing proposal creates a new tax for businesses in California that would have companies with annual net income of more than $1 million in the state pay an additional surcharge of 7 percent (half their savings from the recent federal tax cut).


Bold mine.

That's some Prog justice...


----------



## Macfury

Trump's necessary limitations on how much property tax one can deduct from their federal taxes are also being screwed around with. They're allowing people with mansions to change their property tax payments into "charitable payments" so they can qualify for the full deduction.



FeXL said:


> What Progs do in the face of tax reform.
> 
> California politicians eye huge hike in corporate taxes in response to federal tax reform
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> That's some Prog justice...


----------



## Macfury

Looks like Trump outplayed the Dems on this one:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/22/dems-give-shutdown-fight/


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Looks like Trump outplayed the Dems on this one:


Yeppers. Backed themselves into a non-winnable corner.


----------



## FeXL

Curiouser & curiouser...

FBI ‘Failed To Preserve’ Five Months Of Text Messages Between Anti-Trump FBI Agents



> The FBI “failed to preserve” five months worth of text messages exchanged between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, the two FBI employees who made pro-Clinton and anti-Trump comments while working on the Clinton email and the Russia collusion investigations.


‘Unbelievable’: FBI Agents’ Missing Text Messages Compared To Lois Lerner Email Scandal



> The revelation that the FBI “failed to preserve” five months worth of anti-Trump agents’ text messages is evoking memories of Lois Lerner, the IRS official whose emails mysteriously disappeared during congressional investigations into her targeting of conservative non-profit groups.
> 
> “The [Lois] Lerner thing was huge,” Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan told The Daily Caller. “My gut tells me this is probably bigger.”


Wiped, Like With a Cloth? _Now the FBI Claims It Also Destroyed Relevant, Subpeonaed Texts; Say They Can't Recover Biased Agent Peter Strzok's Texts_



> Earlier it was revealed that one text between the pair stated that then-Attorney General Lynch knew that Hillary Clinton would not be charged from very early in the alleged investigation.
> 
> Gee, I wonder how they knew that?


Related:

The Obama Administration’s ‘Brazen Plot To Exonerate Hillary Clinton’ Starting To Leak Out, According To Former Fed Prosecutor



> A former federal prosecutor says the truth is starting to seep out about the Obama Administration’s “brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton” and “frame an incoming president with a false Russian conspiracy,” according to an exclusive interview with The Daily Caller News Foundation.
> 
> Joe diGenova, a former federal prosecutor, connects the dots on former Obama administration Justice Department and FBI officials who may have “violated the law, perhaps committed crimes” to politicize law enforcement and surveillance against political opponents.
> 
> He says former FBI Director James Comey conducted a fake criminal investigation of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as they “followed none of the regular rules, gave her every break in the book, immunized all kinds of people, allowed the destruction of evidence, with no grand jury, no subpoenas, no search warrants. That’s not an investigation. That’s a Potemkin village. It’s a farce.”


Toss her wrinkly old butt in jail, along with the related parties from the FBI (not limited to but including Comey), DNC, Fusion GPS, plus Lynch, Barry & Huma.

Related, too:

Was Lynch coordinating with Comey in the Clinton investigation?



> Former Attorney General Loretta Lynch knew well in advance of FBI Director James Comey's 2016 press conference that he would recommend against charging Hillary Clinton, according to information turned over to the Senate Homeland Security Committee on Friday.
> 
> The revelation was included in 384 pages of text messages exchanged between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, and it significantly diminishes the credibility of Lynch's earlier commitment to accept Comey's recommendation — a commitment she made under the pretense that the two were not coordinating with each other.
> 
> And it gets worse. Comey and Lynch reportedly knew that Clinton would never face charges even before the FBI conducted its three-hour interview with Clinton, which was supposedly meant to gather more information into her mishandling of classified information.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the above:

Literally "Unbelievable:" Congressmen Rip FBI's Excuses for "Losing" Strzok Texts; Say This Is Bigger Than Lois Lerner



> Isn't it funny how misbehaving, weaponized parts of the bureaucracy keep "losing" evidence of their crimes when called to account?


That's one word for it...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Looks like Trump outplayed the Dems on this one:
> 
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/22/dems-give-shutdown-fight/


I thought the Democrats had a shot at getting a DACA extension in exchange for a fully funded wall -- ie. pre-Trump status quo + wall -- but now I'm not sure. The debate seems to be broadening.

If the end result of this is a more Canadian-style immigration system, a wall, and extended DACA, can anyone argue that things became worse (aside from the cost of a wall)?


----------



## Macfury

I wouldn't argue that they would be worse.



Beej said:


> If the end result of this is a more Canadian-style immigration system, a wall, and extended DACA, can anyone argue that things became worse (aside from the cost of a wall)?


----------



## FeXL

Further on "missing" FBI texts.

Sessions announces DOJ probe of missing FBI text messages



> Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Monday announced the Justice Department will investigate missing text messages sent between two FBI agents critical of President Trump, joining the chorus of Republican lawmakers who are eager to recover the exchange.
> 
> GOP officials have seized on the messages as evidence of FBI bias against Trump in the probes into Russian election meddling and Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server while secretary of State.
> 
> “We will leave no stone unturned to confirm with certainty why these text messages are not now available to be produced and will use every technology available to determine whether the missing messages are recoverable from another source," Sessions said in a statement.


Related:

Claim: Page and Strzok Referenced FBI 'Secret Society' that Met the Day After the Election



> There is serious talk on Capitol Hill about the appointment of a second special counsel amid several new bombshell revelations swirling around the Trump/Russia probe. First, there are the allegations of shocking and substantial government surveillance abuses under President Obama outlined in the FISA abuse memo. Secondly, the FBI lost five months of key text messages between the anti-Trump/pro-Clinton FBI officials Peter Strzok and his mistress Lisa Page. And now there's talk of a "secret society" of officials within the FBI that apparently met the day after the election of Donald J. Trump to plot against the president-elect.
> 
> _The thousands of texts @TGowdySC and I reviewed today revealed manifest bias among top FBI officials against @realDonaldTrump. The texts between Strzok and Page referenced a "secret society."
> — John Ratcliffe (@RepRatcliffe) January 23, 2018_​


----------



## FeXL

Evidence suggests a massive scandal is brewing at the FBI



> During the financial crisis, the federal government bailed out banks it declared “too big to fail.” Fearing their bankruptcy might trigger economic Armageddon, the feds propped them up with taxpayer cash.
> 
> Something similar is happening now at the FBI, with the Washington wagons circling the agency to protect it from charges of corruption. This time, the appropriate tag line is “too big to believe.”
> 
> Yet each day brings credible reports suggesting there is a massive scandal involving the top ranks of America’s premier law enforcement agency. The reports, which feature talk among agents of a “secret society” and suddenly missing text messages, point to the existence both of a cabal dedicated to defeating Donald Trump in 2016 and of a plan to let Hillary Clinton skate free in the classified email probe.
> 
> If either one is true — and I believe both probably are — it would mean FBI leaders betrayed the nation by abusing their powers in a bid to pick the president.


Fire every last one of 'em & start over.

Related:

The Swamp



> Attorney General Jeff Sessions -- at the public urging of President Donald Trump -- has been pressuring FBI Director Christopher Wray to fire Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, but Wray threatened to resign if McCabe was removed, according to three sources with direct knowledge.


----------



## FeXL

Senator Ron Johnson: An Informant Tells Us the "Secret Society" Was Real and Met Off-Site



> Just on Bret Baier's show, who seemed stunned by the revelation.
> 
> For those who thought the "Secret Society" was just some cutesy little in-joke: It seems no, it was an actual group which met off government property to... what? Talk? Plot?


----------



## FeXL

Poll: Most Americans Want Less Immigration, Not More; The Number of Americans Who Want More Americans Is Barely Higher Than Those Who Want No Immigration Whatsoever



> It seems the political establishment embarked on a campaign of transforming the nation through high levels of immigration (both legal and illegal), confident of the righteousness and popularity of their cause, without ever -- get this! -- bothering to ask the citizenry they allegedly represent about their feelings on the issue.
> 
> _Eighty-one percent of Americans want one million or fewer legal immigrants to the United States per year, according to new polling data released Monday by the Harvard-Harris poll, a number lower than the 1.38 million who came to the United States in 2015.
> 
> The plurality of respondents, 35 percent, think that there should be between 1 and 250,000 legal immigrants arriving to the United States per year. A net 12 percent want to see immigration increased to 1.5 million people per year or more, while nine percent of Americans think that there should be no new legal immigrants._​


Related:

Illegals in California with Driver's Licenses Eligible to Vote After April 1



> tarting on April 1, 2018, illegal aliens in California who have recently obtained state driver's licenses legally, or obtained them previously by lying about their immigration status, will automatically be registered to vote. Since January 2015, according to the California DMV, A.B. 60, a law passed by the California Assembly, "_allows illegal immigrants to the United States to apply for a California driver's license_ with the CA Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)" [emphasis original]. As of December 2016, more than 800,000 California driver's licenses were issued to illegal aliens under the A.B. 60 law. Additional thousands of illegals may have been granted licenses prior to 2015 because they lied on their driver's license application forms and claimed they were in the country legally. *(No proof of legal residence has been required by the California DMV in recent years.)*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Veterans Group: The Dirty NFL Censored Our Stand-for-the-Flag Ad



> Of course they did.
> 
> _AMVETS officials are decrying "corporate censorship" from the National Football League for their decision not to run an ad in their Super Bowl program which responds to league players’ decision to kneel for the national anthem in protest of national equality issues.
> 
> The ad, which would have cost the veterans organization $30,000, features the tag "#PleaseStand" with a picture of service members saluting the American flag and information on how to donate to the congressionally-chartered organization.
> 
> Group leaders said NFL officials refused to include the ad in their Super Bowl publication, but did not issue a reason why._​
> The NFL claims it doesn't permit ads that could be interpreted as making a political statement.
> 
> Oh, sure, the NFL totally doesn't want political statements during its games. That's why it's permitted a year and a half of National Anthem protests, I guess.


----------



## FeXL

Peter Strzok on Joining Mueller's RUSSIA Investigation: "My Gut Says There's No Big 'There' There," But Then, It May be a Chance to "Fix It and Finish It"



> Yet he also felt a sense that he had to "fix things," so he joined the investigation anyway.
> 
> Despite his gut telling him that there was no "there" there on the Russia claims, Strzok nevertheless discussed "fix[ing] things" -- he seems to have felt that even a rigged Hillary fake-investigation was too much, and wanted to "fix" that -- and his possible Rendezvous With History if he joined Mueller's team:


Related:

In ‘Jaw-Dropping’ Text, Peter Strzok Expressed ‘Concern’ About Joining Mueller Team



> The FBI’s top agent on the Trump-Russia investigation sent a text message last year that one top Republican senator says suggests he saw no evidence of Trump campaign collusion.
> 
> The text message, which was sent by Peter Strzok, is “jaw-dropping,” Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said in a radio interview on Tuesday.
> 
> In an interview with WISN-Milwaukee radio host Jay Weber, Johnson read aloud a May 19, 2017 text that Strzok sent to Lisa Page, an FBI lawyer and his mistress.
> 
> Strzok wrote: “You and I both know the odds are nothing. If I thought it was likely, I’d be there no question. I hesitate in part because of my gut sense and concern that there’s no big there there.”


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Peter Strzok on Joining Mueller's RUSSIA Investigation: "My Gut Says There's No Big 'There' There," But Then, It May be a Chance to "Fix It and Finish It"


Dr. G will ask: "What did Obama know and when did he know it?"


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Deplorable tax reform (see what I did there?).

JP Morgan To Increase Wages, Invest $20 Billion in US Economy in Wake of Tax Cuts; Disney Handing Out $1000 Bonuses to 125,000 Employees



> _JPMorgan Chase will increase wages for its lowest-paid workers and reverse its recent trend of branch closures, it announced on Tuesday, after promising to share the proceeds of the Trump administration’s recent tax cuts.The moves are part of an investment plan which the bank says will be worth $20bn over the next five years, including further commitments to increase its lending to small businesses and create thousands of new jobs.
> 
> ...
> 
> Disney announced Tuesday it will pay over 125,000 employees a one-time cash bonus of $1,000, as well as make a new $50 million investment into education program for employees.
> 
> ...
> 
> *Starbucks will use some of the savings from the new U.S. corporate tax cuts to give domestic employees pay raises, company stock and expanded benefits with a combined worth of more than $250 million, the company said on Wednesday.*_​


Bold mine.

Even the Progs are giving raises!!!


----------



## FeXL

Jail. His. Ass...

As FBI Director Mueller Helped Cover Up Fla. 9/11 Probe, Court Docs Show



> Court documents recently filed by the government further rock the credibility of Russia Special Counsel Robert Mueller because they show that as FBI Director Mueller he worked to cover up the connection between a Florida Saudi family and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The documents reveal that Mueller was likely involved in publicly releasing deceptive official agency statements about a secret investigation of the Saudis, who lived in Sarasota, with ties to the hijackers. A Florida journalism nonprofit uncovered the existence of the secret FBI investigation that was also kept from Congress.


----------



## eMacMan

Fun little ditty:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3VLqLLWxbQ[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Saweet...

Exclusive - DOJ begins recovering missing FBI texts



> Fox News’ Sean Hannity said Wednesday night on “Hannity” that the Justice Department has started recovering some of the missing texts between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, citing DOJ sources.
> 
> Federal law enforcement officials had notified congressional committees that a technical glitch affected thousands of FBI cellphones between Dec. 14, 2016 and May 17, 2017. This meant that 5 months’ worth of texts would be missing from Strzok and Page, both of whom are under scrutiny after it was revealed that the former members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team exchanged anti-Trump texts during the 2016 presidential campaign.
> 
> Hannity said sources at the DOJ told him they have begun to recover some of the texts from that time period. Specific content from those texts has not been released.


Related:

DOJ Is Successfully Recovering Missing Strzok/Page Text Messages



> The Department of Justice is successfully recovering the missing text messages between former FBI counterintelligence agent Peter Strzok and his mistress, senior FBI lawyer Lisa Page, Fox News reported Wednesday evening.
> 
> Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Monday called for a review of the matter after the bureau disclosed Friday that its system had “failed to preserve” thousands of the text messages between the pair from December 14, 2016, through May 17, 2017.
> 
> "Sources are exclusively telling me tonight -- multiple sources -- that the Department of Justice is as we speak in the process of successfully recovering many of those text messages in that five-month period of time from the Trump-hating FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page," Fox News host Sean Hannity declared.


The Dems, the Progs, the Rino's & the GOPe (but I repeat myself) shaking in their boots...


----------



## FeXL

So, interesting thought...

What if the FBI had the "missing" Tweets all along & was just "sanitizing" them?

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It's Not Illegal



> Bob Goodlatte on #Hannity: Says Strzok withheld 302s from Congress because it might inflame Congress. Stunning. Remember Comey saying some things were too sensitive to reveal to Congress in his testimony.
> — Dana French (@DanaBordeaux) January 26, 2018


OUTBOX: "Still on with Devlin"



> Was the Washington Post's @DevlinBarrett using trusted leakers Strzok and Page as "sources" in his reporting on their own misconduct at the FBI ?
> 
> Woowhee.


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Obama Met With Louis Farrakhan at a Congressional Black Caucus Meeting in 2005; "Journalist" Covered That Information Up, and Concealed the Picture of the Meeting, To Protect Obama's Political Career



> Damn right-wing conspiracy theorists, claiming the picture was suppressed by the photographer so as to not damage Obama's political prospects.
> 
> (Here is where I garner some Toleration by my Leftist Lords by putting down other right-wingers and showing my Masters that I'm not "one of those kinds.")
> 
> Oh but wait a second, it's the photographer himself who says he suppressed the photo to protect Obama.
> 
> Oh well, in that case, to garner some "Not One Of _Those_ Kinds" Tolerance from my Leftist Overlords, I will slightly change tacts and warn those crazy right-wingers (of whom I am not one) to not "seize" upon this or, really, even talk about it.


The Photo That Never Saw The Light of Day: Obama With Farrakhan In 2005



> A journalist announced last week that he will publish a photograph of then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (D) and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan that he took in 2005 at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting, but did not make public because he believed it would have “made a difference” to Obama’s political future.
> 
> The photographer, Askia Muhammad, told the Trice Edney News Wire that he “gave the picture up at the time and basically swore secrecy.”
> 
> “But after the nomination was secured and all the way up until the inauguration; then for eight years after he was President, it was kept under cover,” Muhammad said.


Congressional Black Caucus buried 2005 Obama-Farrakhan photo, photographer says



> The image taken in 2005 at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting on Capitol Hill showed then-Senator Obama, a young Democrat from Illinois, smiling side-by-side with Farrakhan.
> 
> *Muhammad told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson that the same day he snapped the photo, the CBC contacted him.*
> 
> “A staff member from the black caucus called me and said ‘we have to have the picture back,’ and I was kind of taken aback. And we talked a couple of times on the phone after that, and I said ‘Okay, I will give the picture back to Minister Farrakhan’s chief of staff,’” he said on “Tucker Carlson Tonight.”


Bold mine.

Huh. MotherCorpse. Go figger...

OK. let's talk the Charlie Foxtrot:

Botched Obamacare forecasts have CBO on the hot seat



> Congress’ chief scorekeeper said Wednesday it botched some of its original Obamacare estimates, and its employees have to make “trade-offs” as they confront the heavy workload from lawmakers.
> 
> Keith Hall, director of the Congressional Budget Office, said they were off in their guess for enrollment in Obamacare’s exchanges, though he said so were other analysts.


And, further on covering Bill's Wife's saggy butt:

HEAD OF THE SNAKE: How Obama Made Sure Hillary Was Not Indicted In Email Scandal



> A new analysis from former assistant U.S. attorney Andy McCarthy thoroughly explains how former President Barack Obama made sure that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was not indicted in the criminal investigation into her use of a private email server.
> 
> In his most recent column, National Review’s McCarthy argues that the decision not to indict Clinton was Obama’s call — not the FBI’s and not the Department of Justice’s — as Obama used a pseudonymous email account to communicate with Clinton on her non-secure email account.


Excellent read.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Huh. MotherCorpse. Go figger...


Nahhh. CBC = Congressional Black Caucus.


----------



## FeXL

RELEASE THE MEMO!!!

Republicans full steam ahead on surveillance memo release despite DOJ rebuke



> Republicans appear to be proceeding with the release of a much-hyped memo that purportedly reveals government surveillance abuse -- despite Justice Department officials describing such a move as “extraordinarily reckless.”
> 
> Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd wrote Wednesday to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., urging him not to release the memo.
> 
> “We believe it would be extraordinarily reckless for the Committee to disclose such information publicly without giving the Department and the FBI the opportunity to review the memorandum and to advise the HPSCI of the risk of harm to national security and to ongoing investigations that could come from public release,” he said.


You gotta know that if the shoe were on the other foot, The Clinton News Network would have been given a copy in advance...

More:



> Democrats have opposed the release of the memo, with Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., calling the document “highly misleading” and “another effort to distract from the Russia probe and undermine the Special Counsel.
> 
> “With this latest gambit, however, the Majority seeks to selectively and misleadingly characterize classified information in an effort to protect the President at any cost,” Schiff said in a statement.
> 
> Schiff added that committee Democrats will be drafting their own memo for release on Monday.


Still with the Russkies!

And, _of course_ they're going to draft their own memo. Must maintain the narrative...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Nahhh. CBC = Congressional Black Caucus.


Thx for the clarification.


----------



## FeXL

Good. 'Bout time somebody put their foot down.

Trump: No more aid unless Palestinians talk peace; Jerusalem is ‘off the table’



> In unscripted remarks to the press on Thursday, US President Donald Trump said the US would no longer transfer monetary aid to the Palestinians unless they entered peace negotiations with Israel, and excoriated the Palestinian leadership’s reaction to his decision last month to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
> 
> “That money is not going to them unless they sit down and negotiate peace, because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too, or we’re going to have nothing to do with it any longer,” he said.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, this is gettin' good...

The FBI and DOJ Tanked the Case Against Hillary Clinton Because Obama Was Guilty of the Same Crime



> Obama's DOJ couldn't prosecute Hillary, even if they wanted to (they didn't), because Obama was also knowingly sending classified emails to Hillary on the secret server which he knew was unsecure, Hillary and Huma had a get-out-of-jail-free card: Obama's DOJ could not prosecute them without having to next turn its guns on Obama.
> 
> _Hillary couldn’t be proven guilty without proving the president guilty as well.
> 
> "How is this not classified?" So exclaimed Hillary Clinton's close aide and confidante, Huma Abedin. The FBI had just shown her an old e-mail exchange, over Clinton's private account, between the then-secretary of state and a second person, whose name Abedin did not recognize.
> 
> The FBI then did what the FBI is never supposed to do: The agents informed their interviewee (Abedin) of the identity of the second person. It was the president of the United States, Barack Obama, using a pseudonym to conduct communications over a non-secure e-mail system -- something anyone with a high-level security clearance, such as Huma Abedin, would instantly realize was a major breach.
> 
> Abedin was sufficiently stunned that, for just a moment, the bottomless capacity of Clinton insiders to keep cool in a scandal was overcome. "How is this not classified?"_​


Related:

As walls close in on FBI, the bureau lashes out at its antagonists



> What happens when federal agencies accused of possible wrongdoing also control the alleged evidence against them? What happens when they’re the ones in charge of who inside their agencies — or connected to them — ultimately gets investigated and possibly charged?
> 
> Those questions are moving to the forefront as the facts play out in the investigations into our intelligence agencies’ surveillance activities.
> 
> There are two overarching issues.
> 
> First, there’s the alleged improper use of politically funded opposition research to justify secret warrants to spy on U.S. citizens for political purposes.
> 
> Second, if corruption is ultimately identified at high levels in our intel agencies, it would necessitate a re-examination of every case and issue the officials touched over the past decade — or two — under administrations of both parties.


Related, too:

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It's Not Illegal



> For background:
> 
> 1. Get to know this name: Bill Priestap pic.twitter.com/cu0e1ji295
> — TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) December 15, 2017


Related, three:

FBI Mulled Special Counsel For Hillary Email Probe But Feared Her Wrath, New Texts Reveal



> Newly released text messages between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page reveal that the agency's *top brass was considering appointing former U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald as a special counsel in the Hillary Clinton email investigation.*
> 
> The idea is pitched in a March, 2016 exchange between Strzok and Page - relatively early on in their investigation into Hillary Clinton's mishandling of classified information. Of note, Attorney General Loretta Lynch or one of her deputies would have had to make the ultimate decision to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the "matter."
> 
> "_Thought of the perfect person [FBI Director James Comey] can bounce this off of?" Strzok wrote to Page in a March 18, 2016 text. "Pat....You got to give me credit if we go with him....And delay briefing him on until I can get back and do it, Late next week or later."
> 
> "We talked about him last night, not for this, but how great he is," Page responded.
> 
> "I could work with him again....*And damn we'd get sh*t DONE*," Strzok wrote._​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

Should be easy to catch, then... beejacon

Democrats will fill balcony with 'Dreamers' for State of the Union 



> House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats will fill the balcony with so-called Dreamers and other immigrants during President Donald Trump’s State of the Union address next week as the party panned a White House attempt on Thursday to reach a deal on immigration reform.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

Those first two captions on the left ought to read, sexual predator and traitor. The third one's good.


----------



## Macfury

The gaps in Freddie's education are showing again (meme-brain?). Trump earned an economics degree from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> The gaps in Freddie's education are showing again (meme-brain?). Trump earned an economics degree from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.


Here's one more tuned in to the current situation . . .


----------



## CubaMark

*EPA Chief Under Nixon And Reagan: GOP's Climate Denial Is "Killing Everything"*










The nation’s first Environmental Protection Agency chief, who returned as administrator in 1983 under President Ronald Reagan, excoriated his own party on Friday, warning that Republicans’ ideological opposition to widely-accepted climate science would prove lethal.

“It’s a threat to the country,” William Ruckelshaus, whom President Richard Nixon appointed in 1970 to lead the newly-created EPA, told HuffPost in a wide-ranging interview by phone from his home in Seattle. “If you don’t step up and take care of real problems, and don’t do anything about it, lives will be sacrificed.”

“They certainly are killing everything,” he added, noting that President Donald Trump’s assault on climate change policies would be a cornerstone of his legacy.

** * **​
During the Obama years, the billionaire brothers behind fossil fuel giant Koch Industries became political kingmakers in the Republican Party, and engineered an ideological shift toward climate change denial.

** * **​
Even now, Republicans who acknowledge the basic realities of climate science are few and far between, and radical new megadonors, such as Robert and Rebekah Mercer, are funding some of the most fringe climate-denial proponents.

** * *​*
Last week, three former EPA administrators told HuffPost it could take decades for the next agency chief to restore the staffing, reputation and regulatory muscle lost under Pruitt. Carol Browner, who served as administrator under President Bill Clinton from 1993 to 2001, said it would take up to 20 or 30 years.

** * *​*
...he warned that climate change poses a much more complex challenge than acid rain ― and one that will become more difficult to deal with as key agencies like the EPA lose scientists researching the problem.

“If your position is, ‘I don’t believe the science, therefore I’m going to get rid of all the scientists studying this, and let’s not mention it in any public announcement,’ that’s just crazy,” Ruckelshaus said. “ What you want to do is more science.”

(HuffPo)​


----------



## FeXL

CM, first off, why don't you describe to us the issues we're dealing with re: alleged climate change?

Second (and related to the above), why don't you go back & answer that question on climate I posed to you a few weeks back?

Third, precisely WTF is climate denial?

Fourth, do you have some examples of "everything" that's being killed?

Fifth, as just one of many examples, explain precisely what part of NASA's use of a rubber ruler is actual science?

Sixth, why didn't you post this in the GHG thread?

Seventh, seeing as you are _not_ a climate scientist, why are you posting about it?

That's a start...



CubaMark said:


> EPA Chief Under Nixon And Reagan: GOP's Climate Denial Is "Killing Everything"


----------



## Macfury

Why bother mentioning Reagan? Ruckelshaus is a RINO who endorsed both Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton. His area of scientific expertise--he's a lawyer.



FeXL said:


> CM, first off, why don't you describe to us the issues we're dealing with re: alleged climate change?
> 
> Second (and related to the above), why don't you go back & answer that question on climate I posed to you a few weeks back?
> 
> Third, precisely WTF is climate denial?
> 
> Fourth, do you have some examples of "everything" that's being killed?
> 
> Fifth, as just one of many examples, explain precisely what part of NASA's use of a rubber ruler is actual science?
> 
> Sixth, why didn't you post this in the GHG thread?
> 
> Seventh, seeing as you are _not_ a climate scientist, why are you posting about it?
> 
> That's a start...


----------



## CubaMark

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

*Trump campaign website offers to flash donors' names during speech*

U.S. President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign will offer donors a chance to see their name flashed on the livestream of his first State of the Union address, according to a solicitation on his campaign website on Monday.

For a payment of at least $35, contributors’ names will be displayed on Trump’s campaign website during the speech to the U.S. Congress, scheduled for 9 p.m. EST on Tuesday....

(Reuters)​
*Trump Site to Livestream Donors' Names During State of Union*

“This inappropriate usage of the State of the Union to advertise campaign access is the opposite of the ‘drain the swamp’ presidency on which Trump based his campaign," said Robert Weissman, president of Public Citizen. "This administration has no shame. This latest outrage underscores the need for national reform to our system of moneyed politics.”

(Broadcasting & Cable)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump campaign website offers to flash donors' names during speech*
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign will offer donors a chance to see their name flashed on the livestream of his first State of the Union address, according to a solicitation on his campaign website on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> For a payment of at least $35, contributors’ names will be displayed on Trump’s campaign website during the speech to the U.S. Congress, scheduled for 9 p.m. EST on Tuesday....
> 
> 
> 
> (Reuters)​
> 
> 
> *Trump Site to Livestream Donors' Names During State of Union*
> 
> 
> 
> “This inappropriate usage of the State of the Union to advertise campaign access is the opposite of the ‘drain the swamp’ presidency on which Trump based his campaign," said Robert Weissman, president of Public Citizen. "This administration has no shame. This latest outrage underscores the need for national reform to our system of moneyed politics.”
> 
> 
> 
> (Broadcasting & Cable)​



Trailer park trash with a billionaire bank account. Oh, and the Presidency.


----------



## Macfury

What happened to the good old days when a half million dollars would buy you quarterly access to Barrack Obama? Now THAT's how you sell the presidency!



CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
> 
> *Trump campaign website offers to flash donors' names during speech*
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign will offer donors a chance to see their name flashed on the livestream of his first State of the Union address, according to a solicitation on his campaign website on Monday.
> 
> For a payment of at least $35, contributors’ names will be displayed on Trump’s campaign website during the speech to the U.S. Congress, scheduled for 9 p.m. EST on Tuesday....
> 
> (Reuters)​
> *Trump Site to Livestream Donors' Names During State of Union*
> 
> “This inappropriate usage of the State of the Union to advertise campaign access is the opposite of the ‘drain the swamp’ presidency on which Trump based his campaign," said Robert Weissman, president of Public Citizen. "This administration has no shame. This latest outrage underscores the need for national reform to our system of moneyed politics.”
> 
> (Broadcasting & Cable)​


----------



## FeXL

"Americans are dreamers, too."

Political masterstroke.

I'll leave it at that...

:clap:


----------



## Macfury

I was laughing at all of the MSM talking heads advising Trump to move "to the center" (LEFT) so that people would love him. When has that ever worked? Do I recall anyone saying that Obama needed to move closer "to the center" (RIGHT) so that he could reach more people? Silence on that one. Only an endless trek to socialism brings love, apparently.


----------



## FeXL

OK, ton of stuff happening stateside. No time to address everything so just going to drop a bunch of links.

Andrew McCabe stepping down. Or fired. Or something...
About That Memo

McCabe Out
"Stepped Down?" Or "Removed"?
White House Press Briefing Upcoming; McCabe Will Most Likely be a Topic

DeepStateGate Update

Inspector General Asking If Andrew McCabe Slow-Walked Examination Into Hillary Emails Found on Anthony Weiner's Computer to Put Issue Off Until After Election

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe Stepping Down

Internal Justice Department probe eyes McCabe’s role in final weeks of 2016 election

McCabe Resigns After FBI Director Wray Reviews House FISA Abuse Memo

Fusion
Fusion-Linked Conspiracy Theorists in the Media Go to the Place All Conspiracy Theorists Ultimately Go: The Jews Are Behind It All

When The Democrats Do It, That Means That It's Not Collusion

NFL
NFL Establishes Owner-Player Partnership to Promote Racial and Social Justice

John Kerry
John Kerry Violates LOGAN ACT by Sending Message to Palestinian Leader/Terrorist Protector Mahmoud Abbas Telling Him to "Stay Strong" and Refuse to Negotiate With Trump

Palestine
Trump to Palestinian Authority: No More Aid, No More Talking, No More Anything Until You Commit to Peace

State Department Hiding ‘Game Changer’ Report on Myth of Palestinian Refugees

US Immigration
Trump's Immigration Offer: DACA Cards for 1.8 Million, 10-12 Year Pathway to Citizenship, $25 Billion for the Wall, Cuts to Chain Migration (and Limits Chain Migration to Immediate "Nuclear" Family Only) and End to Visa Lottery

Release The Memo!
House Could (And Probably Will) Vote to #ReleaseTheMemo Today or Tonight

!NOT PANICKING!: Nancy Pelosi Gets Unreasonably Aflutter Over #ReleaseTheMemo

Justice Department withholds majority of FBI texts

Democrats Target Facebook And Twitter AGAIN, Suggest Russian Bots To Blame For #ReleaseTheMemo. Here's What They're Really Up To.

House Intel Committee Votes To Release Spy Memo

'Course! Intelligence Agencies Join FBI in Push Against Plans to Release FISA Abuse Memo

(Excellent read) Intelligence Recognizes Presidential Authority — A Case of Too Little, Too Late

Trey Gowdy Gives Clues To What’s In FISA Abuse Memo

Grammys
Get Woke, Go Broke: Grammys Get Political, and Suffer Huge 21% Ratings Fall From Last Year's Show

Grammy Ratings Hit All-Time Demo Low

A Second Dossier
Second Dossier Was Assembled by Notorious Democratic FakeNews Smear Merchant and Sidney Blumenthal Associate Cody Shearer

Trump approval increases
Monmouth Poll: Trump Approval Rises; Approval of Tax Cut Soars; Democrat Advantage in Congressional Mid-Terms Falls to Just 2%

Desperation Time As Democrats Seek to Stop Trump From Succeeding

Media confused after Trump pushes agenda he was elected to enact

SOTU
Dems Sit On Hands for All-Time-Lows in Unemployment, Except for Joe Manchin, Who Has Ants In His Pants Not Knowing If He's Permitted to Stand or Applaud or Not

(Hilarious) Here’s how Democrats looked while watching Trump’s State of the Union

(HE SAID "AMERICA" 80 TIMES!!!) State of the Union Was Trump’s ‘We’ vs. Obama’s ‘I’

Trump Divides Americans and Un-Americans

Trump-Hating Limousine Liberals Plan 'People’s State of the Union' Event On Eve of President's Address

(Brilliant) NYU Students Slam Trump's 'Racist' SOTU Speech . . . That He Has Yet To Give 

Bill's Wife
Hillary Clinton, Take 2 on Why She Kept Serial Harasser Burns Strider on the Payroll: "I Now Choose to Live My Life as a Gay Man"

Hillary’s ‘Sure’ Victory Explains Most Everything

(Still enabling) Hillary Clinton chose to shield a top adviser accused of harassment in 2008

The Wreck of Hillary Clinton

FIB (sic)
Mueller’s Fruit of the Poisonous Tree

Obama -- Leader of the Deep State Coup

Source: Strzok Hadn’t Seen Evidence Of Collusion After 10 Months On Russia Probe

The compassionate, intellectual, left...
THIS IS CNN: Network Regular Says God ‘CLEANING UP’ After Fatal GOP Train Wreck

Top House Dem: Trump 'Would be Mussolini and Putin Would be Hitler'

Leaving SoCal
Wyoming welcomes move by Weatherby from California

Enjoy!


----------



## Macfury

The question Dr. G wants answered: "What did Obama know and when did he know it?"


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The question Dr. G wants answered: "What did Obama know and when did he know it?"


Second link under FIB (sic)...



> Can it be believed that as key players in the Obama administration like Strzok and Page, as well as FBI Director James Comey, Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, number 4 at Justice Bruce Ohr, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, and many others were linked in a vast criminal conspiracy to keep Hillary Clinton out of prison and Donald Trump out of the White House, that Barack Obama was blissfully unaware of all this? *Rather, it can be plausibly argued that he was orchestrating it.*
> 
> Perhaps not directly or by explicit orders, but rather by discussing the threat to his legacy Trump represented with his progressive minions and then simply saying, as crime bosses throughout history have done, “You know what needs to be done. Do it.”
> 
> This scandal did not occur in a vacuum any more than did the weaponizing of the IRS to target the Tea Party and other conservative groups before Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign occured in a vacuum. The agencies under Obama’s control have been politicized before and used to intimidate and destroy his political opponents


Emphasis mine.


----------



## FeXL

More links on Release the Memo!

NOT PANIC: On Eve of Release of FISA Abuse Memo, Demented Old Lady Calls for Devin Nunes to be Removed from Chair of House Intelligence Committee (Again)



> _BREAKING: Minority Leader Pelosi calls on Speaker Ryan to remove Rep. Nunes as chair of the House Intel Committee pic.twitter.com/ch7lrF35JU
> — NBC News (@NBCNews) February 1, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda panicky. https://t.co/1uV6xhLJWo
> — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) February 1, 2018_​
> So Trump has apparently greenlit the release of the memo and sent it back to Congress. It's Congress' document, and only they can release it; now they have an all-clear from Trump. It will be released tomorrow.


Well, Maybe Some Panic



> streiff cautions people not to get too grandiose in imagining what's in The Memo, but is nevertheless happy to see the right people panicking. He collects up a lot of panicky tweets from Democrats and their Deep State spokesmen.
> 
> _Dem senator: Release of Nunes memo "reminiscent of the darkest days of the McCarthy era" https://t.co/SAsaR4vk95 pic.twitter.com/DBkFfAsla5
> — The Hill (@thehill) February 1, 2018_​
> That's from Dick Blumenthal, the Senator from Rambo: First Blood Part 2, who did not serve in Vietnam, but did watch a couple of episodes of the A-Team, so he thinks he knows the gist of it.


Uh-oh...

Monica Crowley: The FISA Abuse Memo is Just the First Strike; Expect More Down the Road



> _I hear this too.
> 
> [email protected]: "This is the first of several memos. As bad as bad as this memo might be, my understanding is that there is worse coming down the pike." #ReleaseTheMemo pic.twitter.com/ppdjdtQaa1
> — Dan Siddons (@SiddonsDan) February 1, 2018_​


Like this?

DeepStateGate Update: Ron Johnson Wants Texts of 16 More DOJ/FBI Members; Strzok and Page Discussed Alternate Methods of Communications to Keep Their Messages From Being Archived



> First, as to our little partisan love-birds' desire to violate federal laws about archiving all messages about federal business, from Sara A. Carter, the Reporter Who Just Doesn't Exist As Far as the #SalonHot25 and NeverTrumpers Know.
> 
> Strangely enough, the #SalonHot25 and NeverTrumpers are once again in complete agreement with the liberal media and Democrat Party on Sara A. Carter's status as an Unperson.
> 
> _Newly released text messages between a pair of FBI anti-Trump officials at the center of the Russia investigation controversy show that they sought to "get around" rules established by the government to preserve text messages, stating that none of the agencies abide by the rules then "why should we."_​
> Gotta hand it to them -- they have a point on that. Hilary set up a system to flout federal laws, and James Comey (and, ironically enough, Peter Strzok!) decided she didn't have the "intent" needed to violate the law.


My popcorn futures are going through the roof!!! :clap:

BTW, that sucking sound you just heard was an additional 16 Prog sphincters slamming shut... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

What did Obama know and when did he know it?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What did Obama know and when did he know it?


Under The Color Of The Law


----------



## Rps

Actually, the question I want answered is this...... we know who set up the shell company, we know who got the money ( Stormy Daniels ) and we know how much ($130,000) ,and where the shell company was set up......my question is Why was the money paid........


----------



## Macfury

And you want this question answered because...?


----------



## Rps

Well, $130,000 to the Donald is little more than trump change ( pardon the expression) so why the shell company? I realise a lot of men who get caught with a little honey on the stinger lie about the relationships. Slick Willie made that into a career. I just find it curious that they would go to such lengths....remember it was years ago this happened. I just find it curious...... what is interesting is how and who dug it up don’t you think?


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> Well, $130,000 to the Donald is little more than trump change...


I wonder if Stormy paid taxes on the payoff...


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I just find it curious...... what is interesting is how and who dug it up don’t you think?


Not particularly. Sounds like Stormy blabbed.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Not particularly. Sounds like Stormy blabbed.


Hmmmmmm, isn’t the WSJ owned by Murdoch.......and he also owns Fox, the Trump can’t do anything wrong channel near you.......


----------



## eMacMan

The memo that the Democrypts have been trying to suppress has finally seen the light of day. Far from being misleading it could put Hiliary, the top echelon of the DNC, and a number of top FBI types in jail. The only unexpected thing was that it did not implicate Obama in what was clearly illegal surveillance of Trump during the 2016 election.

Will try to dig up a link to the document when I have more time.

Fully justifies Trumps claims of illegal surveillance and his firing of Comey.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Hmmmmmm, isn’t the WSJ owned by Murdoch.......and he also owns Fox, the Trump can’t do anything wrong channel near you.......


Murdoch's kids are not so inclined.


----------



## eMacMan

As promised;
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/2/16957588/nunes-memo-released-full-text-read-pdf-declassified

If you scroll down about halfway you can find the actual memo. Five easy to read pages. It's quite direct no mis about about it. Reasonably well documented as well. 

I find it interesting that the FBI considers leaking classified information to be a more serious offense than murder, or lying, but that seems to be the world we live in. Also interesting that Steele leaked his report to Yahoo News. Obviously the Clinton News Network, Wash Po, and NYT considered Steele an unreliable source, even though he was saying exactly what Clinton had paid him to say.

EDIT: A more direct link here;
https://s3.amazonaws.com/content.gazette/House-Intel-Memo-On-FISA.pdf

One final thought, I notice those disparaging the memo are careful to avoid providing links to it. Maybe they are afraid that once someone reads it, the Democrypt claims will appear either insane or absurd.


----------



## Beej

eMacMan said:


> The memo that the Democrypts have been trying to suppress


Two questions that jumped to mind when I read the memo:

Why were Democrats and others so hell-bent on preventing the release of this partisan-penned document? The document is hardly threatening to security and intelligence processes when compared to what have become run of the mill leaks to the press.

Why do I see many saying "the dossier" is complete fiction? I recall there being points that were disproved, making it a dubious document. Having certainty about it being a complete fiction is something else.

This drama is far from over, for better or worse.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Beej said:


> This drama is far from over, for better or worse.


i so am enjoying watching CNN - attempting to say the memo proves nothing - it is meaning less etc. 

when will they stop lying..


----------



## eMacMan

macintosh doctor said:


> i so am enjoying watching CNN - attempting to say the memo proves nothing - it is meaning less etc.
> 
> when will they stop lying..


Very unlikely. They are called the Clinton News Network with good reason.


----------



## SINC

*THE MEMO REVEALS THE COUP AGAINST AMERICA*

The memo has been released, now it’s time to release everything.




> Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is an investigative journalist and writer focusing on the radical left and Islamic terrorism.
> 
> The Democrats and the media spent a week lying to the American people about the “memo.”
> 
> The memo was full of "classified information" and releasing” it would expose “our spying methods." By “our,” they didn’t mean American spying methods. They meant Obama’s spying methods.
> 
> A former White House Ethics Lawyer claimed that the Nunes memo would undermine "national security." On MSNBC, Senator Chris Van Hollen threatened that if the memo is released, the FBI and DOJ “will refuse to share information with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees."
> 
> Senator Cory Booker howled that releasing the memo was "treasonous" and might be "revealing sources and methods" and even "endangering fellow Americans in the intelligence community."
> 
> The memo isn’t treasonous. It reveals a treasonous effort by the Democrats to use our intelligence agencies to rig an election and overturn the will of the voters.
> 
> The only two “sources” 20 are Christopher Steele, who was funded by the Clinton campaign, and a Yahoo News article, that were used to obtain a FISA warrant against a Trump associate. That Yahoo story came from Michael Isikoff, the reporter who knew about Bill Clinton’s affair with Monica Lewinsky but suppressed it. It was based on more leaks from Steele which the FBI and DOJ chose to ignore. Steele’s identity was already well known. The only new source revealed is Yahoo News.
> 
> No vital intelligence sources were compromised at Yahoo News. And no Yahoo News agents were killed.
> 
> The media spent a week lying to Americans about the dangers of the memo because it didn’t want them to find out what was inside. Today, the media and Dems switched from claiming that the memo was full of “classified information” that might get CIA agents killed to insisting that it was a dud and didn’t matter. Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive.


More: https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/26...erica-daniel-greenfield#.WnW_CHWoQhw.facebook


----------



## Macfury

Yep. If Trump is guilty of "collusion" (collusion is not even a crime)--then why fear such evidence. Certainly it would only make Trump seem all the more guilty?


----------



## CubaMark

(Details)


----------



## Macfury

What was the name of the secretary?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> What was the name of the secretary?


*Julia Ketchum* (via The Guardian)

What, did you think she was a figment of someone's imagination?


----------



## Macfury

Not at all. I wanted to hear the original source. It was Ketchum herself who expressed delight at the increase. 

Original news source (Which also includes other happy middle-class wage earners:

https://www.apnews.com/8821fda1e08b4416a51baa5504b33b44

“


> Wayne Love works in managed care in Spring Hill, Florida, and got an extra $200 in his paycheck last week. He said the money will help offset a $300 increase in the cost of his health insurance.
> 
> "I have heard time and again that the middle class is getting crumbs, but I'll take it!" Love told the AP by email, referring to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) and other top Democrats who have referred to the worker bonuses and wage hikes due to the GOP tax overhaul as "crumbs" and "so pathetic."
> 
> "In terms of the bonus that corporate America received versus the crumbs that they are giving workers to kind of put the schmooze on is so pathetic. It's so pathetic," Pelosi said last month.
> 
> The AP listed multiple examples of workers across the country receiving more pay due to the tax overhaul, which President Donald Trump signed into law in December:
> *
> Julia Ketchum, a secretary at a public high school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, said she was pleasantly surprised her pay went up $1.50 a week. She didn't think her pay would go up at all, let alone this soon. That adds up to $78 a year, which she said will more than cover her Costco membership for the year.*
> 
> And Todd Anderson of Texas and his Fiance, who are both educators, got an extra $200 in their paychecks combined that they plan to use to cover the costs of a second baby on its way.
> 
> Middle-class families on average are expected to see a $970 tax cut this year, adding to their after-tax income by about 1.6 percent, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.





CubaMark said:


> *Julia Ketchum* (via The Guardian)
> 
> What, did you think she was a figment of someone's imagination?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Not at all. I wanted to hear the original source. It was Ketchum herself who expressed delight at the increase.


An increase of $80/year makes her "delight"ed? Jeebus. That woman must come from extremely humble beginnings. :yikes:



Macfury said:


> Original news source (Which also includes other happy middle-class wage earners:


Yep. And some of 'em are sufficiently aware of the bigger picture to recognize what this really represents:

_Wayne Love, who works in managed care in Spring Hill, Florida, got an extra $200 in his paycheck last week, which he said will help offset a $300 increase in the cost of his health insurance.

** * **​
...Some workers received the increase with mixed emotions though.

“It’s tough to be upset about more money in my pocket,” said Jefferey Snively, an aerospace engineer who got a 4 percent bump in his last paycheck due to the lower tax rate.

He said that’s not enough to feel like a windfall or change his spending habits, but is a pleasant change. Yet, he thinks the tax overhaul wasn’t really about him or other workers, but more about corporations and the wealthy.

“I think the people this bill made the most difference for are the ones who needed it least,” he said._​
*One wonders why Ryan deleted his tweet, if this is such a positive thing for the average American worker?*


----------



## CubaMark

Ketchum, meanwhile, has gone on to say a few more things....

_Ketchum had told AP her check went up $1.50 per week and, while the quote wasn’t a stretch, she more or less felt put on the spot to say something.

“(AP) asked me what I’m going to do with the extra money,” Ketchum recalled. "My Costco membership was the only thing I could think of at the time that would be covered.”

* * *​
Ketchum was surprised her quote even made it to the AP report, she said.

“Especially since they picked up on my $1.50-per-week increase,” she added. “People interviewed before and after me had hundreds, and when (Ryan) chose to tweet about me, that cracked me up.”

Regardless of any political context surrounding the tweetstorm, Ketchum said all the attention at least seemed to validate her tax withholding.

“I’m hoping it means I have my deduction set at the right place, since there was very little change,” she said._​


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> And some of 'em are sufficiently aware of the bigger picture to recognize what this really represents:


The provided quotes showed neither awareness of the bigger picture nor recognition of what the tax cuts really represent.


----------



## Macfury

So essentially, no change. She's cool with the extra money and it pays for her Costco membership.



CubaMark said:


> Ketchum, meanwhile, has gone on to say a few more things....
> 
> _Ketchum had told AP her check went up $1.50 per week and, while the quote wasn’t a stretch, she more or less felt put on the spot to say something.
> 
> “(AP) asked me what I’m going to do with the extra money,” Ketchum recalled. "My Costco membership was the only thing I could think of at the time that would be covered.”
> 
> * * *​
> Ketchum was surprised her quote even made it to the AP report, she said.
> 
> “Especially since they picked up on my $1.50-per-week increase,” she added. “People interviewed before and after me had hundreds, and when (Ryan) chose to tweet about me, that cracked me up.”
> 
> Regardless of any political context surrounding the tweetstorm, Ketchum said all the attention at least seemed to validate her tax withholding.
> 
> “I’m hoping it means I have my deduction set at the right place, since there was very little change,” she said._​


----------



## SINC

Not sure what the big stink is about! Hell, I'm cool with the $0.55 increase per month I got in my old age pension in 2018 from Turdeau this year. It's gonna be a big help buying me a new crayon to draw **** on every photo that asshole publishes each day online.


----------



## FeXL

You mean like Clock Girl?

Jes' makin' sure...

PS. Anything you've ever posted in the past has been suspect. Since Clock Girl, now doubly so...



CubaMark said:


> What, did you think she was a figment of someone's imagination?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Anything you've ever posted in the past has been suspect. Since Clock Girl, now doubly so...


Oh PUH-LEEEZ! :lmao:

The difference between you and me? Your sources are the right-wing radical racist fringe. When presented with evidence to the contrary of your beliefs, you double-down, claim conspiracy, or some kind of innuendo that the facts are suspect because, well, you never know what _really_ happened, blah blah blah.

The 11-year old girl who claimed she was attacked by a scissors-wielding nutjob in Toronto was quickly revealed to have made up the story. Did I dispute this? No. Did I claim there was something nefarious afoot? A cover-up? No. 

I accept reality. You rail against it. And yet, you're the one who comes into this forum and crows about how much more intelligent you are than the rest of the world.

I'm quite comfortable opening up to the ehMac community a public poll on the question of which of us needs serious mental health counselling....


----------



## CubaMark

*U.S. Treasury Set to Borrow Nearly $1 Trillion This Year*










Don’t look now, but the U.S. government needs to borrow more money at exactly the wrong moment — when interest rates are spiking.

Last week, in a development first reported by The Washington Post, the Treasury Department quietly released data estimating its 2018 borrowing needs would check in at $955 billion, then top $1 trillion in the next two fiscal years. 

Those sums are considerably higher than last year’s $519 billion in debt issued last year, and an upward revision to estimates released by the Treasury in late 2017.
(CNBC via Cryptogon)​


----------



## Macfury

That's laughable. You had no trouble with debt under Obama.


----------



## FeXL

The difference between you & me is that I've never started a fresh new thread under a completely, obviously (to anybody with two brain cells to rub together) false premise & then begin to fabricate the narrative as time wore on.

The difference between you & me is that you accuse me of not waiting for confirmation of a story to come out & then fall prey to precisely what you accuse me of. Hypocrisy, however, is a feature to Progs, not a bug.

The difference between you & me is that you claim to be an atheist yet religiously believe in all manner of Prog garbage with no, zero, scientific foundation.

You'd think that having been caught with yer arse in the wind so recently there'd be a modicum of humility & contrition in your subsequent posts. But no, like all Progs you try to turn your own flaws & FUBAR's into somebody else's fault.

VICTIM!!! I'M A VICTIM OF FAKE NEWS!!! NOT MY FAULT!!! THE PROGS ALL SAID IT WAS TRUE!!! MUSLIMS!!! THE SPAWN!!! EVERYBODY!!! I WAAAAAAITED... :baby::baby::baby:

The rest of your post is crap & will be treated as such.

<flush>



CubaMark said:


> The difference between you and me?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> That's laughable. You had no trouble with debt under Obama.


Precisely. There was a meme floating around the intertoobs to that effect recently.

Thought Progs approved of gov't spending...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> That's laughable. You had no trouble with debt under Obama.


You are being illogical. You are presuming a position on an issue based upon what I did *not* say.

I have stated before that I am not / never was a fan of Obama. The head of state of a global war machine that has brought untold suffering unto millions of people - hell, the Dalai Lama could be President of the USA and I'd think he's a ****.

But in this case, the point is not in comparison to Trump and any past President. It is, simply, an observation that Trump and his minions who proclaimed they would clean up Washington and get the government back on track, have not yet had any success using whatever methods they are currently employing (e.g., massive tax cuts for the rich).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You are being illogical. You are presuming a position on an issue based upon what I did *not* say.
> 
> 
> 
> I have stated before that I am not / never was a fan of Obama. The head of state of a global war machine that has brought untold suffering unto millions of people - hell, the Dalai Lama could be President of the USA and I'd think he's a ****.
> 
> 
> 
> But in this case, the point is not in comparison to Trump and any past President. It is, simply, an observation that Trump and his minions who proclaimed they would clean up Washington and get the government back on track, have not yet had any success using whatever methods they are currently employing (e.g., massive tax cuts for the rich).




Maybe once the wall is up things will change.


----------



## FeXL

Are you that blind or is it merely wilful ignorance?

Cutting back participation (and funding) in the UN, cutting positions in the EPA (largely through attrition), stowing Globull Warming where it deserves to be, introducing tax reform that has resulted in tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars in worker bonuses & wage increases (thus far), putting a stop to all this lefty "Russkies" bull$h!t, showing the planet what a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving, stealing, conniving bastards Barry, Bill's Wife, the Dems, the Rino's, the GOP-e, the FBI (but I repeat myself), are, pulling subsidies for alternative energy, calling out the MSM for the frauds they are, addressing the problem with illegal aliens...

That's just a short list of their "non-existant" successes.

Draining the Swamp & Winning!!!



CubaMark said:


> It is, simply, an observation that Trump and his minions who proclaimed they would clean up Washington and get the government back on track, have not yet had any success using whatever methods they are currently employing (e.g., massive tax cuts for the rich).


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You are being illogical. You are presuming a position on an issue based upon what I did *not* say.


I am assuming a position based on eight years of near silence under Obama. Yeah, I know you were no fan. But you've been consistently quiet regarding the big "O" on almost every issue. Suddenly, you've found your voice!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Suddenly, you've found your voice!


Amazing the power that Trump Derangement Syndrome can muster. Praise the Donald & grant this man his speech back!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> ...Praise the Donald...


Oh, you and your false gods...  (emphasis mine)

*Trump calls Democrats not applauding him ‘un-American’*

*President Donald Trump accused congressional Democrats* on Monday of being “un-American” and perhaps even *treasonous for refusing to cheer positive news during his State of the Union address*, as he turned an appearance that was arranged to promote new tax cuts into a session on bashing the political opposition.

Even as Trump celebrated the tax cuts and the economy, the Dow Jones Industrial Average took a wild ride during his nearly hour-long speech, falling roughly 1,000 points before erasing some of the losses. *Trump has frequently commented on gains by the market during his first year in office, but he stayed silent on the day’s gyrations during his appearance at an Ohio company that makes cylinders.

At its close, the Dow had fallen more than 1,150 points, its largest single-day point drop, erasing its gains for the year.*

(National Post)​
*Trump Accuses Democrats of ‘Treason’ Amid Market Rout*

President Trump on Monday accused Democrats who did not clap during his State of the Union address of being un-American and even treasonous. His remarks came in a rambling, discursive speech at a factory in Ohio, during which he celebrated his revival of the American economy as the stock market plummeted by more a thousand points.

“Can we call that treason?” Mr. Trump said of the stone-faced reaction of Democrats to his speech. “Why not? I mean, they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much.”

* * *

Unlike most of his predecessors, who have generally avoided talking about the ups and downs of the stock market, Mr. Trump has repeatedly taken credit for the rise in stock prices. He often mentions the bull market in settings that have nothing to do with the economy. But on Monday, he made no mention of it,....

(NYT)​


----------



## Macfury

Good grief--Obama was constantly bragging about the stock market!



CubaMark said:


> Unlike most of his predecessors, who have generally avoided talking about the ups and downs of the stock market, Mr. Trump has repeatedly taken credit for the rise in stock prices. He often mentions the bull market in settings that have nothing to do with the economy. But on Monday, he made no mention of it,....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Oh, you and your false gods...  (emphasis mine)
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump calls Democrats not applauding him ‘un-American’*
> 
> 
> 
> *President Donald Trump accused congressional Democrats* on Monday of being “un-American” and perhaps even *treasonous for refusing to cheer positive news during his State of the Union address*, as he turned an appearance that was arranged to promote new tax cuts into a session on bashing the political opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> Even as Trump celebrated the tax cuts and the economy, the Dow Jones Industrial Average took a wild ride during his nearly hour-long speech, falling roughly 1,000 points before erasing some of the losses. *Trump has frequently commented on gains by the market during his first year in office, but he stayed silent on the day’s gyrations during his appearance at an Ohio company that makes cylinders.
> 
> 
> 
> At its close, the Dow had fallen more than 1,150 points, its largest single-day point drop, erasing its gains for the year.*
> 
> 
> 
> (National Post)​
> 
> 
> *Trump Accuses Democrats of ‘Treason’ Amid Market Rout*
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump on Monday accused Democrats who did not clap during his State of the Union address of being un-American and even treasonous. His remarks came in a rambling, discursive speech at a factory in Ohio, during which he celebrated his revival of the American economy as the stock market plummeted by more a thousand points.
> 
> 
> 
> “Can we call that treason?” Mr. Trump said of the stone-faced reaction of Democrats to his speech. “Why not? I mean, they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much.”
> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike most of his predecessors, who have generally avoided talking about the ups and downs of the stock market, Mr. Trump has repeatedly taken credit for the rise in stock prices. He often mentions the bull market in settings that have nothing to do with the economy. But on Monday, he made no mention of it,....
> 
> 
> 
> (NYT)​




Off with their heads! (It's been done before) That's what disloyalty will get you. As for the stock market, it's probably also true that Trump can affect the very weather patterns if he wants to.,


----------



## Macfury

You're only speculating about Trump, but Obama claimed he_ could_ affect the climate:



> ...this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal...


What an ego!



Freddie_Biff said:


> As for the stock market, it's probably also true that Trump can affect the very weather patterns if he wants to.,


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Good grief--Obama was constantly bragging about the stock market!


Precisely.

Oh, & CM, people a helluva lot smarter than you & your Dumb Dem Cadre have been predicting a correction for months. The only one who is surprised here is you:

Dow Jones Has Correction, Then Bounces Up From the Lows; Hysterical Sissy Shep Smith Says of Correction That Analysts Have Been Predicting for Months: _"No One Could Have Foreseen This Ten Days Ago"_



> *NeverTrump means NeverThinking.*
> 
> The DJIA had fallen about 1,500 points, which is about the size of a correction, when Shep Smith began excitedly shrieking that no one could have predicted this (except for every analyst, and even every casual observer, who have long predicted a correction -- that's what happens when you have a long, fast sustained run-up).
> 
> Now the DJIA has recovered about 700 points of that loss and is currently down 800, around 3.3%, and bouncing up and down around that point.
> 
> But the important thing is for this Drama Queen to flutter about hysterically.


Yeah, bold mine.

NeverThinking? Fluttering drama queens? Sounds just like you, CM.

As far as the Dems, the Rino's & the GOP-e (but I repeat myself) not applauding Trump, I'm pretty sure that's not treasonous but it throws into sharp relief what a bunch of whiny losers the lot of them are. Pelosi's dentures sounded like a jackhammer clacking away. I jes' luvs it when the bastards go down en masse...


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of disloyalty, did you see the Dems being monitored by their masters to see who clapped & who didn't?

Pot, kettle...



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's what disloyalty will get you.


----------



## FeXL

Levin: There’s ‘no way Obama didn’t know’ about his administration’s ‘police state tactics’



> Levin argues that Obama must have known because several senior members of his administration knew.
> 
> “So Lynch, Yates, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page — they all knew about the FISA application. Would they have kept it secret from the president of the United States?” Levin asked. “Moreover, if _I_ found pieces of this in the media, you have to assume the president’s _press team_ found pieces of this in the media.”
> 
> “There’s no way Obama didn’t know about the applications and the actual securing of the warrant,” Levin said. “And yet he’s never asked about it.”


And I don't buy plausible deniability, either. Far too much of a control freak...


----------



## Beej

CubaMark;2604786
[B said:


> Trump calls Democrats not applauding him ‘un-American’[/B]


This seems to be one of those "inside the Beltway" or "not a politician" things. In public company - a mix of friends, acquaintances, and strangers - given the unfortunate choice of being called un-American (Canadian), treasonous, racist, or a white supremacist, which one would ehmacers pick?

Inside politics, the first two are most alarming (treason particularly) but, outside politics, it's probably the latter two. Democrats and a large portion of media seem to enjoy attributing the latter two to Trump and his policies. 

As usual, my disclaimer that I don't like any of this language becoming the new norm for political discussion.


----------



## CubaMark

*"Pretty Korean Lady" .... Oh, Donald... just GTFO. What an embarrassment.*










*Trump reportedly interrupted intel briefing to ask Korean American, “Where are you from?”*
_He suggested the “pretty Korean lady,” who was talking about Pakistan, be reassigned to North Korea._

A career intelligence analyst who is an expert in hostage policy stood before President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last fall to brief him on the impending release of a family long held in Pakistan under uncertain circumstances.

It was her first time meeting the president, and when she was done briefing, he had a question for her.

”Where are you from?” the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange.

New York, she replied.

Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president’s hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that’s not what the president was after.

He wanted to know where “your people” are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions.

After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the “pretty Korean lady” isn’t negotiating with North Korea on his administration’s behalf, the officials said.

(NBC News via Vox)​


----------



## Macfury

Two unnamed officials. Winning sources as usual CM!


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Two unnamed officials. Winning sources as usual CM!


I believe he was talking to Billy Bush. A bus may or may not have been involved.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *"Pretty Korean Lady" .... Oh, Donald... just GTFO. What an embarrassment.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump reportedly interrupted intel briefing to ask Korean American, “Where are you from?”*
> 
> _He suggested the “pretty Korean lady,” who was talking about Pakistan, be reassigned to North Korea._
> 
> 
> 
> A career intelligence analyst who is an expert in hostage policy stood before President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last fall to brief him on the impending release of a family long held in Pakistan under uncertain circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> It was her first time meeting the president, and when she was done briefing, he had a question for her.
> 
> 
> 
> ”Where are you from?” the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange.
> 
> 
> 
> New York, she replied.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president’s hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that’s not what the president was after.
> 
> 
> 
> He wanted to know where “your people” are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions.
> 
> 
> 
> After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the “pretty Korean lady” isn’t negotiating with North Korea on his administration’s behalf, the officials said.
> 
> 
> 
> (NBC News via Vox)​



Clueless, but at least he's predictable.


----------



## Macfury

I might say the same for you. The story is attributed to "unnamed sources" but you jumped on it as truth--as predictably as always.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Clueless, but at least he's predictable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I might say the same for you. The story is attributed to "unnamed sources" but you jumped on it as truth--as predictably as always.



And right on cue. So nice to hear from you again, Macfury.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Freddie, got an opinion on this FISA/FBI/Bill's Wife/Barry fiasco tearing through the ranks of the Dems?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Clueless, but at least he's predictable.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Nancy Pelosi refused to stand for the families who’s children were murdered by illegal gang members.

But she stood a full 7 hours today giving a pro-Dreamer speech.

What else do you need to know?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hey, Freddie, got an opinion on this FISA/FBI/Bill's Wife/Barry fiasco tearing through the ranks of the Dems?



Nope. But thanks for asking.


----------



## FeXL

Lessee, where is it, I know it's somewhere...ah, here it is:



> Clueless, but at least he's predictable.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. But thanks for asking.


----------



## Beej

*Gerrymandering*

An interesting analysis of gerrymandering.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-maps/

The alternative boundaries they looked at:


> We made each of the other seven with a different goal in mind:
> 
> 2. Gerrymander districts to favor Republicans
> 3. Gerrymander districts to favor Democrats
> 4. Match the partisan breakdown of seats to the electorate
> 5. Promote highly competitive elections
> 6. Maximize the number of majority-minority districts
> 7. Make district shapes compact (using an algorithm)
> 8. Make districts compact while following county borders


Current boundaries have results closest to 7 and 8.


----------



## Macfury

Interesting!


----------



## Beej

The Obama portraits
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/arts/design/obama-portrait.html










I was going to add a Star Trek face palm meme, but decided otherwise. This is better as is.


----------



## Macfury

Utterly brutal.


----------



## eMacMan

Who is the woman?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Utterly brutal.


I gotta say, wouldn't by my first choice to hang on a wall. ...


----------



## FeXL

I think they're a perfect simile for real life: Cheap, superficial & utterly worthless...


----------



## CubaMark

*West Virginia politicians sure don't like it when people point out that they've been bought by the fossil fuel industry...*

*Woman lists West Virginia legislators’ industrial donors, gets “dragged” from hearing*

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q94ft2ssqw[/ame]

A West Virginia woman was removed from the state's House of Delegates on Friday during a public hearing about a bill that would allow oil and gas drilling on private land without the full consent of owners, after she read aloud the names of politicians who have taken donations from the fossil fuel industry.

"I have to keep this short because the public only gets a minute and 45 seconds while lobbyists can throw a gala at the Marriott with whiskey and wine and talk for hours to the delegates," Lissa Lucas said in her prepared remarks.

Lucas, who is also running as a Democrat for West Virginia's seventh district, objected to H.B. 4268, which would allow oil and gas production on private land with consent from only 75 percent of the landowners. Under the current law, 100 percent of landowners must provide consent in order for any drilling to take place, according to the Huffington Post.

"The people who are going to be speaking in favor of this bill are all going to be paid by the industry," she said.

Lucas then read aloud donations taken by the politicians on the House Judiciary Committee, including chairman John Shott.

"John Shott. First Energy, $2,000. Appalachian Power, $2,000. Steptoe & Johnson—that’s a gas and oil law firm—$2,000. Consol Energy, $1,000. EQT, $1,000. And I could go on," she said. All of the information is, of course, publicly available.

"Miss Lucas, we ask that no personal comments be made," Shott told her.

"This is not a personal comment," Lucas shot back.

"It is a personal comment, and I am going to call you out of order if you are talking about individuals on the committee," Shott said. "If you would, just address the bill. If not, I would ask you to just step down."

But Lucas was removed by two men after she continued. She attempted to resist, but after insisting she leave, she told them, "Drag me out, then."

(Salon)​


----------



## eMacMan

Souls come awfully cheap in West Virginia.


----------



## FeXL

That's the way it usually goes. Happens on the Dems side, too. What's the issue?



CubaMark said:


> "The people who are going to be speaking in favor of this bill are all going to be paid by the industry," she said.


Coupla thousand bucks here & there. Brutal.

Hey, did you hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars given to alternative energy & its supporters?

Information also publicly available...



CubaMark said:


> "John Shott. First Energy, $2,000. Appalachian Power, $2,000. Steptoe & Johnson—that’s a gas and oil law firm—$2,000. Consol Energy, $1,000. EQT, $1,000. And I could go on," she said. All of the information is, of course, publicly available.


----------



## Macfury

My thoughts exactly.



FeXL said:


> That's the way it usually goes. Happens on the Dems side, too. What's the issue?
> 
> 
> 
> Coupla thousand bucks here & there. Brutal.
> 
> Hey, did you hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars given to alternative energy & its supporters?
> 
> Information also publicly available...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's portrait...

Obama's legacy under Trump.

<snerk...>


----------



## Macfury

That portrait of BO contains multiple repetition of individual leaf groupings... Photoshop!


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Obama's Senior Policy Adviser for Education Was Arrested and Prosecuted For Taking Upskirt Pictures of Unknowing Women at a Metro Station, and Somehow We're Just Learning This Over a Year Later



> News of these pictures seem to have gone into the same file as the pictures of Obama with Louis Farrakhan.
> 
> _William Mendoza, 42, was the executive director of the White House Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education
> 
> The married father earned $140,000 a year in President Obama's White House
> 
> In November 2016, he was arrested and charged with attempted voyeurism
> 
> He was caught trying to take photos up women's skirts in DC Metro stations
> 
> Mendoza was also spotted looking at a video of a woman in a dressing room, according to the documents
> 
> He pleaded guilty to one count of attempted voyeurism in January 2017
> 
> Was given a 90-day suspended jail sentence and one year's probation
> 
> The Native American activist resigned, but has since been barred from working as a government employee because of 'suitability'_​
> *Note there was a public record of this available since January of last year -- where was our highly competent Firefighter Media? Did they not feel like charging into the blaze that day year?*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Further on those Russkie FB ads.

FaceBook Ad Executive: "I Have Seen All of the Russian Ads and I can Say Very Definitely That Swaying The Election Was *NOT* the Main Goal."

In addition:



> _The majority of the Russian ad spend happened AFTER the election. We shared that fact, but very few outlets have covered it because it doesn’t align with the main media narrative of Tump and the election. https://t.co/2dL8Kh0hof
> — Rob Goldman (@robjective) February 17, 2018_​


----------



## FeXL

Alright. A passel of links...

Victor Davis Hanson: The NeverTrumpers Are Cultural Kin of the Progressive Left, And Would Rather Lose All Political Points Than Lose Face With Their Leftist Political Brethren Being Seen Associating With Embarrassing Walmart Republican Bumpkins

A By the Book Coup: Known Liar Susan Rice's Two-Weeks-After-the-Fact CYA "Memorandum"

Why Did Susan Rice Write Her Transparently Self-Serving Secret Memo to Self?

Andrew McCarthy: Susan Rice's Email-to-Self Was Really an Email for the Record

Democrats Beginning to Panic as GOP and Trump Continue Improving In Polls

The Little Bureaucrat Who Could: Why Does Sally Yates' Name Figure So Prominently in the RUSSIAGate Hoax?

Bruce Ohr Concealed His Wife's FusionGPS Payments From Ethics Officials; May Have Caused His Demotion When Discovered

Liberal Spear-Carrier Joe "Juke-the-Rubes" Manchin May Be In More Electoral Danger Than Previously Guessed

Was Super-Spy Christopher Steele Actually Being Paid by Putin's Close Ally Oleg Deripaska?

Byron York: Comey Told Congress That FBI Determined that Michael Flynn Did Not Lie In Interviews, But DOJ Senior Officials Had a Particular Desire to Find Him Guilty of Something

The Media Stopped Reporting The Russia Collusion Story Because They Helped Create It


----------



## SINC

Things are looking up!

*Poll: Trump's Approval Rating Soars to 45 Percent*

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/donald-trump-approval-rating-poll/2018/02/21/id/844717/


----------



## eMacMan

I am convinced the whole Russian thing has more to do with attempting to deflect attention from Hiliaries rigging the primary, and her Uranium 1 collusion. Probably they are also hoping it will swing a few seats to the Democrypts in November.

I was taken in by the great red scare when I was a kid, you can't sell me the same load of crap twice. The US desperately needs a boogey-man and the terrorist threat is now so transparently staged that even the truest of believers are beginning to have their doubts.


----------



## FeXL

If a Catholic priest had uttered these words, the left would be calling for his head.

South Carolina Imam Warns Muslims: ‘If you have a teacher who is gay or lesbian…you’re going to catch the disease’



> In a Friday sermon delivered in Columbia, South Carolina, *Egyptian–American cleric Muhammad Syed Adly* warned his congregation against sending their children to non-Muslim schools. Imam Adly said that gay or lesbian teachers might pass it on to their students. “The behavior, the way the teacher walks, the way they act, the way they hold hands – all these things are contagious, and it’s going to reach your son,” he warned.


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

US Jobless Claims Fall to Lowest Level in 45 Years



> We have not seen jobless claims hit this low a level since Watergate was in the news -- 1973.
> 
> _The number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits fell to a near 45-year low last week, pointing to strong job growth in February, which should continue to underpin the economy._​


Those midterms looking better & better...


----------



## Macfury

The best proxy for US economic growth is the sour faces of frowning Democrats.



FeXL said:


> US Jobless Claims Fall to Lowest Level in 45 Years
> 
> 
> 
> Those midterms looking better & better...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The best proxy for US economic growth is the sour faces of frowning Democrats.


In that case, Pelosi & her clacking dentures win!


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of which, that must have hurt:

Pelosi Admits: ‘Yes, People Are Getting a Little More in Their Paychecks’



> House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi was pressed by two reporters at an event in San Francisco on Wednesday to address the fact that many Americans are beginning to believe that the tax cut law that President Donald Trump signed in December has turned out to be a good deal for them.
> 
> “Yes,” she admitted at one point, “people are getting a little more in their paychecks.”
> 
> Pelosi twice conceded during the event that the tax-cut law was in fact a tax cut, but then she lamented what she described as cuts in federal entitlement programs and an increasing federal debt.


Anybody else ever hear Pelosi complaining about Barry increasing the federal debt? Anyone? Bueller?


----------



## FeXL

If the Dems aren't pleased, it must mean it's a good thing.

Trump Throws A Lifeline To Millions Of ObamaCare Victims



> Middle class families who no longer can afford health insurance thanks to the "Affordable Care Act" — aka, ObamaCare — are one step closer to getting some relief, courtesy of the Trump administration, in the form of a new, low-cost, short-term insurance option. Naturally, Democrats are furious.
> 
> This week, Trump's Health and Human Services department issued regulations that will let insurers sell short-term insurance plans that don't have to comply with ObamaCare's onerous market regulations and benefit mandates.
> 
> To prevent people from escaping ObamaCare, President Obama limited these plans to just three months. Trump would let them last just shy of one year.
> 
> "Americans need more choices in health insurance so they can find coverage that meets their needs," HHS Secretary Alex Azar said in a statement.
> 
> What could be wrong with that?


----------



## FeXL

Just remember: The _average_ IQ is 100. Half the population is below that...

Seattle Residents Complained About A 'Confederate Flag.' It Was Actually The Flag Of Norway.



> Over the weekend the Seattle Times jumped at a news tip: there was a Confederate flag flying beneath the American flag in the city's Greenwood neighborhood, and residents were very concerned.
> 
> Only, it turns out, it wasn't the Confederate flag at all. It was the state flag of Norway, and a group of friendly Norwegians were just trying to show their patriotism and support for their Olympic Team when their very concerned neighbors contacted local media.
> 
> “Hi. Suddenly there is a Confederate flag flying in front of a house in my Greenwood neighborhood. It is at the north-east corner of 92nd and Palatine, just a block west of 92nd and Greenwood Ave N.," the tipster wrote, according to the Times. "I would love to know what this ‘means’ … but of course don’t want to knock on their door. Maybe others in the area are flying the flag? Maybe it’s a story? Thank you."


----------



## FeXL

Damn those _real_ men...

Toxic Masculinity: 88-Year-Old British Korean Vet Comes to Aid of Woman Accosted by Knife-Wielding Thugs



> Apparently they thought they would just flash the knives and there wouldn't be a fight at all.
> 
> They were wrong. This guy, at four times their age but also four times their Testosterone levels, decided they would have to fight after all.
> 
> They made the classic mistake: They brought knives to a real-life fist-fight.


More:



> "Fear is not part of my vocabulary," he later said.


I doff my hat to you, _sir_.

Related:


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Just remember: The _average_ IQ is 100. Half the population is below that...


...and you'd like to see 'em all armed, eh? Lovely...



> Seattle Residents Complained About A 'Confederate Flag.' It Was Actually The Flag Of Norway.


I'm the first to lament the average educational level of U.S. citizens, beset by creationist local school boards and the like, but I doubt many folks would look at the flag of Norway and immediately know the country it represents:










That said, it does boggle the mind that the average U.S. citizen wouldn't know exactly what the Confederate flag looks like:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> That said, it does boggle the mind that the average U.S. citizen wouldn't know exactly what the Confederate flag looks like:


The average U.S. prog, anyway.


----------



## FeXL

Progs? You bet. The more of 'em put a bullet into their foot, the better...



CubaMark said:


> ...and you'd like to see 'em all armed, eh? Lovely...


It doesn't mater the name of the country it represents. What matters is that it looks _nothing_ like a confederate flag, something they _should_ know...



CubaMark said:


> I doubt many folks would look at the flag of Norway and immediately know the country it represents:


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> It doesn't mater the name of the country it represents. What matters is that it looks _nothing_ like a confederate flag, something they _should_ know...



Ummm..... right.... red background, white detail, blue bars in a cross... yeah, NOTHING at all alike! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Seriously, FeXL. You're a riot.


----------



## FeXL

And you're an idiot...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> Seriously, FeXL. You're a riot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> And you're an idiot...
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Rubber, meet glue.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, that was brave Freddie.

I hope you didn't strain anything in the delivery of that...zinger.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Rubber, meet glue.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Oh, that was brave Freddie.
> 
> I hope you didn't strain anything in the delivery of that...zinger.


The way it was delivered, it would indicate that CM was the glue--so I assume the comment stuck.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

So what you're saying is that a teacher can't protect anyone from anything, no matter the circumstances? I'll buy that!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

phil h is an idiot. Sticks grow on trees. There's an endless supply.

I would probably ensure that my own kid avoided violent people with sticks, and instruct him to carry a concealed stick in case he was attacked anyway.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> phil h is an idiot. Sticks grow on trees. There's an endless supply.
> 
> I would probably ensure that my own kid avoided violent people with sticks, and instruct him to carry a concealed stick in case he was attacked anyway.


Yep, stick and stones can break my bones . . .


----------



## FeXL

So, Freddie, coupla questions...

1. Was Chris Kyle armed the day he was shot to death? 'Cause if he wasn't then he was as much a sitting duck as those 17 kids down in Florida. 
2. Why doesn't the compassionate, intellectual, leftist politicians & Hollywood stars (in a show of good faith, of course) be the first ones to have their personal bodyguards lay down their firearms? It'd go a long way in supporting the Prog narrative that guns are evil, that guns kill and that guns are not necessary for self-defence.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Was Chris Kyle armed the day he was shot to death? 'Cause if he wasn't then he was as much a sitting duck as those 17 kids down in Florida.


*Yes, he was:*

_On February 2, 2013, Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, 35, were shot and killed by Eddie Ray Routh at the Rough Creek Ranch-Lodge-Resort shooting range in Erath County, Texas.[48] Both *Kyleand Littlefield were armed with .45-caliber 1911-style pistols when they were killed,* but neither gun had been unholstered or fired, and the safety catches were still on. Kyle was killed with a .45-caliber pistol, while Littlefield was shot with a 9mm SIG Sauer pistol. *Both guns belonged to Kyle.*[9]_
(Wikipedia)​
*NOTE that "1911-style pistol" doesn't refer to an ancient firearm; it's a model of .45 calibre handgun holding between 8 and 11 rounds*

*Now let's watch FeXL wiggle that into his silly narrative....* :lmao:


----------



## Beej

*Weekend Reading*

A couple lengthy and interesting articles. The first article reminds me of the recovered memories problems in the 1990s -- a dangerous tool that will attract the people you'd least want near it.

The second article is a look at Denmark's society and economy, and why it's probably not reproducible across the U.S.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/girl-told-truth/



> It became one of the biggest scandals to ever hit East Texas. “Mineola Child Sex Ring: ‘Indescribable Acts,’ ” blared the Tyler Morning Telegraph. Across the country, people read in Newsweek about the case “that has riveted and revolted east Texans.” A war would rage for eight years, pitting children against parents, social workers against cops, and one district attorney against another. But above all else, it would pit a woman named Margie Cantrell, a lifelong foster parent and devoted person of faith, against a group of people portrayed as ******* deviants. In 2008 and 2010, based on the testimony of Gabby and the other children, four of the defendants were put on trial and sentenced to prison for life.
> 
> As a young child, Gabby hadn’t questioned her role in the cases; she’d accepted whatever law enforcement officers told her. But she was an intelligent kid, curious and hardheaded, and the older she got, the more she tried to make sense of what she’d supposedly been through. As a teenager, the questions in her mind became more difficult to suppress. The stories just didn’t add up.


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-23/you-can-t-have-denmark-without-danes



> “There are basically four stories about Denmark,” he said. Here’s a breakdown:
> 
> The social liberal story: Free education, free speech and democratic government have created social trust and the ability of people to take responsibility and to act for themselves.
> 
> The social democracy story: Benefits are high and the taxes are high, which creates equality and trust and enables people to plan for the long term without fear of destitution.
> 
> The market liberal story: The real reason Denmark is so successful is that compared to other countries, it’s actually very classically liberal. It has free trade, low regulation, almost no corruption, and makes it easy to start a company.
> 
> The nationalist version: The reason Denmark has a well-functioning society is that it’s homogeneous, with a lot of people who think the same, and who place a high value on things like work and honesty and trust toward strangers. In other words, Denmark works so well because it’s full of Danes.
> 
> A little apologetically, he said, “I believe all of these stories are true.”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Yes, he was:*
> 
> 
> 
> _On February 2, 2013, Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, 35, were shot and killed by Eddie Ray Routh at the Rough Creek Ranch-Lodge-Resort shooting range in Erath County, Texas.[48] Both *Kyleand Littlefield were armed with .45-caliber 1911-style pistols when they were killed,* but neither gun had been unholstered or fired, and the safety catches were still on. Kyle was killed with a .45-caliber pistol, while Littlefield was shot with a 9mm SIG Sauer pistol. *Both guns belonged to Kyle.*[9]_
> 
> (Wikipedia)​
> 
> 
> *NOTE that "1911-style pistol" doesn't refer to an ancient firearm; it's a model of .45 calibre handgun holding between 8 and 11 rounds*
> 
> 
> 
> *Now let's watch FeXL wiggle that into his silly narrative....* :lmao:




Indeed. The point of the story to me was the irony that such a great marksman would be, as they say, hoisted by his own petards. If an excellent marksman like Chris Kyle couldn't even protect himself while being armed, what hope do the rest of us have? 

The solution to school shootings is not more guns or arming teachers. The solution is doing something about gun culture.


----------



## Macfury

First off, you misused "hoisted by his own petards." [sic] It would mean that he killed himself.

He was shot in the back by someone he thought was his friend. However, had he been alerted to a shooting in another area of the compound, he would most certainly have prevailed. In no case is an armed person going to be expected to prevail against a killer who murders him on the first shot. It is intended to finish the killer off after he begins shooting others.

Next?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed. The point of the story to me was the irony that such a great marksman would be, as they say, hoisted by his own petards. If an excellent marksman like Chris Kyle couldn't even protect himself while being armed, what hope do the rest of us have?
> 
> The solution to school shootings is not more guns or arming teachers. The solution is doing something about gun culture.


----------



## SINC

Good grief, how anyone could even suggest the guy had a gun and was a marksman but could not defend himself is an astonishing admission of being just plain dumb. When you are shot in the back, you had no knowledge that you were even under a threat and no opportunity to defend yourself.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> He was shot in the back by someone he thought was his friend. However, had he been alerted to a shooting in another area of the compound, he would most certainly have prevailed. In no case is an armed person going to be expected to prevail against a killer who murders him on the first shot. It is intended to finish the killer off after he begins shooting others.
> 
> Next?





SINC said:


> Good grief, how anyone could even suggest the guy had a gun and was a marksman but could not defend himself is an astonishing admission of being just plain dumb. When you are shot in the back, you had no knowledge that you were even under a threat and no opportunity to defend yourself.


Jesse James also come to mind. 
FWIW The gun seizure types are doing themselves a disservice in trying to use a back shooting as proof that an armed man would not be an effective deterrent to would be shooters. The effect on the narrative is similar to including deaths on the Clinton Arkancide list that have little or no provable connection to the Clintons. It may make the list seem more impressive, but it deflects attention away from the Vince Foster and Seth Rich cases which very clearly are linked.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Good grief, how anyone could even suggest the guy had a gun and was a marksman but could not defend himself is an astonishing admission of being just plain dumb. When you are shot in the back, you had no knowledge that you were even under a threat and no opportunity to defend yourself.


This.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And shot in the back by someone he trusted. Kinda like you getting shot in the back by your wife. What possible defence is there?



CubaMark said:


> Yes, he was...


What narrative is that, CM? That Progs are f'ing cowards? Pretty sure that's been confirmed with this story. 

BTW, wanted to say thx for educating the unwashed about 1911 handguns. Far too many ignorant Progs out there... 



CubaMark said:


> let's watch FeXL wiggle that into his silly narrative...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> First off, you misused "hoisted by his own petards." [sic] It would mean that he killed himself.
> 
> 
> 
> He was shot in the back by someone he thought was his friend. However, had he been alerted to a shooting in another area of the compound, he would most certainly have prevailed. In no case is an armed person going to be expected to prevail against a killer who murders him on the first shot. It is intended to finish the killer off after he begins shooting others.
> 
> 
> 
> Next?




Actually, it means "he was blown up with his own land mines." And he was. He was killed by his own guns when he took a vet to the shooting range.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Good grief, how anyone could even suggest the guy had a gun and was a marksman but could not defend himself is an astonishing admission of being just plain dumb. When you are shot in the back, you had no knowledge that you were even under a threat and no opportunity to defend yourself.




And why couldn't armed police or vets in the school likewise be shot in the back?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> And why couldn't armed police or vets in the school likewise be shot in the back?


Mostly because properly trained and armed law enforcement officers would enter the building seeking to find the shooter face to face. Or in the case of the resident school guard, again properly trained would be defending the building. In either case they would be approaching the shooter face to face. What part of being shot in the back by a trusted friend don't progs get?

It's like walking down the fairway and getting hit square in the back with the ball that yer buddy shot off the tee behind and hit you. No clue it is coming or any way to avoid it if the guy didn't holler fore! And in Arkancide's case, his buddy sure as hell didn't holler duck!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Mostly because properly trained and armed law enforcement officers would enter the building seeking to find the shooter face to face. Or in the case of the resident school guard, again properly trained would be defending the building. In either case they would be approaching the shooter face to face. What part of being shot in the back by a trusted friend don't progs get?
> 
> 
> 
> It's like walking down the fairway and getting hit square in the back with the ball that yer buddy shot off the tee behind and hit you. No clue it is coming or any way to avoid it if the guy didn't holler fore! And in Arkancide's case, his buddy sure as hell didn't holler duck!




Perhaps you could then explain why the "trained officers" in Florida refused to enter the school.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you could then explain why the "trained officers" in Florida refused to enter the school.


No point in explaining anything more. I was not present and have to rely on tainted news gathering sources to form an opinion, so prefer not to even try. Who knows, perhaps they were cowards?


----------



## Macfury

Perhaps you can explain why other trained officers _did_ enter the school. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you could then explain why the "trained officers" in Florida refused to enter the school.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> No point in explaining anything more. I was not present and have to rely on tainted news gathering sources to form an opinion, so prefer not to even try. Who knows, perhaps they were cowards?



So it would seem. And if trained officers with guns can turn out to be cowards, it seems rather ridiculous to expect teachers to fire at students or anyone else for that matter. Not to mention the possible murder charges should a teacher make a false assumption about a potential suspect.


----------



## Macfury

Only if you have a rather low opinion of the bravery of teachers.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So it would seem. And if trained officers with guns can turn out to be cowards, it seems rather ridiculous to expect teachers to fire at students or anyone else for that matter. Not to mention the possible murder charges should a teacher make a false assumption about a potential suspect.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> So it would seem. And if trained officers with guns can turn out to be cowards, it seems rather ridiculous to expect teachers to fire at students or anyone else for that matter. Not to mention the possible murder charges should a teacher make a false assumption about a potential suspect.


You have it wrong. This isn't Canada where the crown always tries to prosecute people whe defend themselves with a gun. In the USA which is the home of this event, they give the defendant a medal which of course we should too.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> You have it wrong. This isn't Canada where the crown always tries to prosecute people whe defend themselves with a gun. In the USA which is the home of this event, they give the defendant a medal which of course we should too.




So you don't believe mistakes can be made under stress?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> So you don't believe mistakes can be made under stress?


Not even for a single second when a drunk and perhaps high too criminal has threatened your wife and children and tried to steal your property while carrying a loaded firearm in the vehicle they used to trespass on your property, NO. Not a F'ing chance.


----------



## eMacMan

FWIW I would be reluctant to presume that a Deputy Sheriff is competently trained. Depending on the State and County, they tend to be hired based on their connections to the Sheriff (who is elected), or the County Commissioners. Barney Fife could well be a good representation of some of their law enforcement skills. Not saying that was the case in Florida, but not discounting it either.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Not even for a single second when a drunk and perhaps high too criminal has threatened your wife and children and tried to steal your property while carrying a loaded firearm in the vehicle they used to trespass on your property, NO. Not a F'ing chance.




I'm just glad I'm not your f'ing neighbor then. You're a little high strung.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> FWIW I would be reluctant to presume that a Deputy Sheriff is competently trained. Depending on the State and County, they tend to be hired based on their connections to the Sheriff (who is elected), or the County Commissioners. Barney Fife could well be a good representation of some of their law enforcement skills. Not saying that was the case in Florida, but not discounting it either.



Either way, they failed in their duty to protect the citizens, and that's with people who are supposed to know what to do. The availability of firearms, particularly to people who should not have them, is the crux of this issue in the US, and there is no simple solution.


----------



## Macfury

No, you're wrong. The local police went in. Only the county deputies stayed out. You are a barrel of misinformation.

But if you're going down this poorly argued road, you are advocating for a system where, among citizens, only criminals have guns, but also one where you do not believe that police will be able to stop them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Either way, they failed in their duty to protect the citizens, and that's with people who are supposed to know what to do. The availability of firearms, particularly to people who should not have them, is the crux of this issue in the US, and there is no simple solution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

There are many teachers who believe that talk of money spent to arm teachers could be much better spent on resources instead. 










https://secondnexus.com/news/watch-...er-slams-donald-trumps-proposal-arm-teachers/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Many of you will remember the infamous Detroit underwear bomber. The incident that led to naked body scanners and Team Sexual Assault. Don't know how many billions the TSA has cost us but their record in ferreting out terrorists remains at zero.

Those of us who don't trust The Clinton News Network, went to the Detroit Free Press and discovered that multiple passengers on the flight witnessed the miscreant being escorted around security and boarding the flight with no passport. 

IOW the entire basis for the sexual assault of American fliers was based entirely on a false flag. Raytheon thanks you for your tax dollars and inflated airport fees.

This post brought on by this mornings Shoe cartoon.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah? There are many parents who think that armed resources are a far better investment for their money...



Freddie_Biff said:


> There are many teachers who believe that talk of money spent to arm teachers could be much better spent on resources instead.


----------



## FeXL

Yep. Gotta have us more of them compassionate, intellectual, peaceful DREAMers...

DREAMer Arrested For Threatening To ‘Shoot All Of Ya B*****s’ At New York High School



> Abigail Hernandez, a 21-year-old New York woman, was arrested for threatening to shoot students at East High School in Rochester, police announced at a press conference Friday.
> 
> According to Rochester Deputy Police Chief La’Ron Singletary, Hernandez — an illegal immigrant shielded from deportation by the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program — made the threat on East High’s Facebook page on February 16, two days after the horrific mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.


Related:

Texas Raids Net 145 Suspected Illegal Immigrants, Including Convicted Child Molester



> A massive sweep in Texas this month resulted in 145 arrests, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials.
> 
> It is the latest sign that President Donald Trump’s administration is ramping up interior immigration enforcement.
> 
> ICE agents targeted illegal immigrants who either had criminal convictions or had re-entered the United States after they were previously deported. The raids focused on south and central Texas.
> 
> Of the 145 people arrested, 86 individuals had criminal convictions, while 39 were arrested based on previous immigration encounters, according to ICE. Four of the individuals have pending criminal charges. Twenty of those arrested had no prior encounters with the agency, ICE authorities said.


----------



## FeXL

Muslim Terrorists Topped Mass Shootings in 2 Out of 3 Years



> Turn on CNN and you get the impression that mass shootings are mainly carried out by mentally unstable teenagers with assault rifles in high schools. But the data points to a very different picture.
> 
> In the last 5 years, five major mass shootings were carried out using AR-15 or similar rifles.
> 
> The perpetrators of the Parkland school massacre, the Las Vegas massacre and the Texas First Baptist Church massacre were Americans. Muslim terrorists however were responsible for the mass shootings at the Pulse nightclub and in San Bernardino. While the Vegas shooter was responsible for the deadliest attack last year, the deadliest attacks of 2015 and 2016 were both carried out by Muslim terrorists.
> 
> Two of the last three years were dominated by mass shootings carried out by Muslim terrorists.
> 
> In the last decade, there were only 10 major mass shootings where the death toll went into the double digits. Three of those were carried out by Muslim terrorists. That’s all the more remarkable since Muslims make up less than 1% of the United States population, but account for 33% of major mass shootings. Proportional to their representation in the population, Muslims are responsible for far more mass shootings than Americans.


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's talk the Broward County Cowards s'more.

Pressure Mounts for Broward Sheriff to Resign Following School Massacre



> With pressure mounting on Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel to resign in the wake of this month’s Valentine’s Day shooting at a high school in Florida, a Republican state lawmaker Monday added his voice to the chorus.
> 
> Rep. Randy Fine (pictured above, far right), appearing on Fox News’ “The Ingraham Angle,” said he signed on to a letter calling for Israel’s suspension. He also said he supports a subpoena requiring Israel to appear in the state capital of Tallahassee to explain an apparent breakdown in which a school resource officer remained outside Parkland’s Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School while Nikolas Cruz was allegedly gunning down 17 people and injuring others.
> 
> “The more we learn about the situation, the more obvious it is that Sheriff Israel needs or resign or needs to be removed immediately … What happened is a disgrace,” said Fine.


Broward County Deputies Were Allegedly Told NOT To Enter School. Here's Why.



> On Monday, Fox News host Laura Ingraham revealed in an exclusive that Broward County Sheriff's Deputies were supposedly told not to enter Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School unless they had body cameras on, which they did not have.
> 
> Ingraham also revealed that police "lost radio transmissions" during the shooting, which also happened at the mass shooting at Fort Lauderdale airport shooting last year, which is also in Broward County.


Body cameras? Seriously? This is the kind of mindset we're dealing with here? And, lost radio transmissions? Still not good enough. Cowards...

Internal Email Shows Broward Sheriff's Office Urging Staffers to 'Stand With' Sheriff Israel



> An internal Broward County Sheriff's Office email directed employees on Monday to support Sheriff Scott Israel, Fox News' Laura Ingraham revealed in an exclusive report Monday evening. Ingraham obtained copies of the email from a source close to the sheriff's office. She further reported that the document has been "confirmed" by a second source.
> 
> _Letter from the Broward County Sheriff's Office obtained by @FoxNews' @IngrahamAngle urges employees to vigorously defend embattled Sheriff Scott Israel. pic.twitter.com/slQ9RCefsc
> — Debra Heine (@NiceDeb) February 27, 2018_​
> The letter urges all staff members to support the embattled sheriff as the agency finds itself "up against a flurry of media allegations and a personal attack against our sheriff."


'Cause we can't have the narrative destroyed by wayward snippets of truth...

FL AG Bondi: ‘Some Folks’ in Broward County Sheriff’s Department ‘Were Not Honest With Me’



> Monday on Fox News Channel’s “Fox & Friends,” Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi said *members of the Broward County Sheriff’s Department were not honest* about why more deputies reportedly failed to enter the building and engage with the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.


Bold mine.

<snort> Ya think?! :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Nope. Voter ID's not required. Voter fraud is definitely _not_ happening. Nosiree...

Lawsuit: 100,000 noncitizens registered to vote in Pennsylvania



> More than 100,000 noncitizens are registered to vote in Pennsylvania alone, according to testimony submitted Monday in a lawsuit demanding the state come clean about the extent of its problems.
> 
> The Public Interest Legal Foundation, which has identified similar noncitizen voting problems in studies of Virginia and New Jersey, said Pennsylvania officials have admitted noncitizens have been registering and voting in the state “for decades.”


----------



## FeXL

Good, good, good...

‘Slew of Subpoenas’ Coming for State Department Officials, Nunes Warns



> High-ranking State Department executives — those both current and former — will be “hauled into Congress” next week to “answer publicly” questions about the “salacious and unverified” anti-Trump Steele dossier, according to Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) in an appearance on “The Laura Ingraham Show.”
> 
> “A week ago we sent a letter with a questionnaire to high-ranking former Obama and current Trump officials, asking them 10 questions about when they knew about the dossier, when they knew the dossier was used, when they knew the dossier was used to get a warrant to spy on an American — all questions that the public has a right to know and that the Congress definitely has a right to know,” said Nunes, who is chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
> 
> “They have ’til Friday to respond to this questionnaire. And what’s alarming is, Laura, that the mainstream media — the Democratic-controlled mainstream media — is not reporting on this questionnaire,” Nunes continued. “So I guess they’ll be surprised when, you know, a week from today when we have to issue a slew of subpoenas if these people don’t answer.”


----------



## FeXL

Talkers Vs. Doers
How few people were able to predict President Trump



> For months, and now years, I have been trying to figure out what special insights those, who predicted the election right against the odds, possesed.
> 
> Last night, as I was reading the new book of Nassim Nicholas Taleb “Skin In The Game”, it finally came to me
> 
> To summarize the book in few lines, an impossible task, #SkinInTheGame is the behaviour displayed by those people who make decisions with full ownership of the associated risks _(farmers, soldiers, athletes, entrepreneurs, etc etc)_ vs those who externalize risks to others while paying little or no consequences for their catastrophic judgment _(bureaucrats, politicians, economists, journalists, consultants, and so on)_
> 
> Or to put in street words: the distinction is between Doers and Talkers.


FWIW, the minute I knew of Trump's nomination as the Republican candidate was the minute I predicted he'd win & said so on these very boards.

More:



> Listen to Doers, ignore the Talkers.


I cannot argue with that...

beejacon


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Talkers Vs. Doers
> 
> How few people were able to predict President Trump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, the minute I knew of Trump's nomination as the Republican candidate was the minute I predicted he'd win & said so on these very boards.
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot argue with that...
> 
> 
> 
> beejacon




Well, considering the competition in the Republican camp....


----------



## FeXL

Whooosh...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, considering the competition in the Republican camp....


----------



## FeXL

So, apparently Trump has declared he's running in 2020. If he does I'm going on the record right now that he will be re-elected.

MAGA & DRAIN THE SWAMP!!!


----------



## FeXL

Who knew?

Your Computer is Racist

So, I'm going to sum this up with a one line quote from the article:



> Computers aren’t racist. But sometimes people are stupid.


Betcha can't guess who the stupid ones are...


----------



## FeXL

They Don’t Hate The NRA. They Hate You.



> The progressives are cranking things up to 11 on the Stupid/Psycho Scale, which is good for us in the short term – some of us Normals were growing complacent and the midterms are coming. But we also need to open our eyes and accept the bitter reality we face. We can’t just pretend the truth is not the truth because we wish it were otherwise. The left’s dropping of its mask has demonstrated once again the undeniable fact. The left hates you.


More:



> And then there is the new meme, that the NRA is a “terrorist” organization. This means you are a “terrorist” simply by advocating for your political views. Think about that. Labeling your political opponents as “terrorists” – gee, that can’t end badly. Violence against and suppression of terrorists is okay, isn’t it? And when this ploy works with guns, it will happen with the next right the left wants to take from us.


----------



## FeXL

Still More Bad News (For Democrats) About The GOP Tax Cuts



> A new survey shows that not only are most people — including minorities and women — seeing extra money in their paychecks thanks to the GOP tax cuts, but Trump is benefitting as well. What will Nancy "Crumbs" Pelosi have to say about that?
> 
> The survey, conducted by LendEDU, found that among those who have seen an increase in take-home pay, the average is $130.76 a month — or nearly $1,600 for the year.
> 
> That might look like crumbs to multi-millionaire liberals like Pelosi, but it's real money to middle class families. In fact, the survey found that 55% feel more confident about their financial situation as a result of the tax cuts. And fully 70% say they are either very or somewhat happy about the tax reforms that Republicans passed.
> 
> What's more, 61% say the tax cuts will strengthen the economy.


More:



> When you dig deeper into the numbers, more surprises turn up.
> 
> The LendEDU survey found that, as a share of income, the biggest winners from the individual income tax cuts are blacks, Hispanics and women.


Hey, how's those midterms looking, Nancy?


----------



## eMacMan

From 2012 but still relevant today.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY[/ame]

A bit more recent, I have no idea how I missed it a year and a half ago.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXjbXGyQDsE[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

The theatre-of-the-absurd that is Trump's White House has done a remarkable job in distracting folks from issues like Dr. Ben Carson's appalling actions to date as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Fortunately, since the media is focused on the Orange Doofus-in-Chief, we still have late night comedians to turn to for that sideshow:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BKZmH4y4GE[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Don't make me watch the depressingly amateurish Daily Show to get the gist of this. What is peeving you about Carson?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Don't make me watch the depressingly amateurish Daily Show to get the gist of this. What is peeving you about Carson?




Depressingly amateurish? Because they quite successfully make fun of your heroes?


----------



## Macfury

There are outlets that do a great job of this. _The Onion_, for example ensures that its content is both pointed _AND_ funny. _The Daily Show_ skips the second step by preparing clumsy content exclusively geared toward an audience of uncritical prog hyenas who bray on command. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Depressingly amateurish? Because they quite successfully make fun of your heroes?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There are outlets that do a great job of this. _The Onion_, for example ensures that its content is both pointed _AND_ funny. _The Daily Show_ skips the second step by preparing clumsy content exclusively geared toward an audience of uncritical prog hyenas who bray on command.




Just because YOU don't get the joke doesn't mean it's not funny.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just because YOU don't get the joke doesn't mean it's not funny.


Not meaning to be argumentative nor pedantic but not “getting the joke” is the usual definition for not funny!


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Not meaning to be argumentative nor pedantic but not “getting the joke” is the usual definition for not funny!


This. And the show stinks too.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not meaning to be argumentative nor pedantic but not “getting the joke” is the usual definition for not funny!


And just because an uncritical audience brays and brays, does not mean the joke is clever. They're simply responding in Pavlovian fashion, while congratulating themselves on being members of a crowd.

Saying someone "doesn't get the joke" is the weak offense of the indoctrinated.


----------



## Rps

I have to say I’m really surprised there has been no talk on this thread about the tariffs Trump wishes to impose......I guess the Daily Show has more impact.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I have to say I’m really surprised there has been no talk on this thread about the tariffs Trump wishes to impose......I guess the Daily Show has more impact.


I see them as a big negotiating tool. Not too worried about them.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> I have to say I’m really surprised there has been no talk on this thread about the tariffs Trump wishes to impose......I guess the Daily Show has more impact.


I came across this the other day & just hadn't got to it:

Art Of The Deal



> I deliver steel all day long in Calgary. Sheet Metal. Plate, Structural (Angle, Flat, Square Bar, Round Bar, I-Beams, Wide-Flange Beams. I haven't seen a North American piece of steel in 15 years.
> — Rick Henwood (@wehauler) March 2, 2018


Also:



> @RobertNorCal -- Also, a Chinese billionaire has stored 6% of The worlds aluminum in Mexico so that he can go to the US tariff free. It's just the way they work.


More at the link.

Obviously, this is just one man's word & a somewhat sceptical one at that. I know of local businesses who will use Chinese steel for everything, some who will use Chinese steel for cladding and American for structural & some who will use nothing but American. I have a buddy who purchases for a smaller oilfield supply company (smaller rigs, etc.) in Calgary, they use nothing but American steel.

Related:

A Mystery Inside an Enigma Wrapped in an Egg Roll



> _ ... The thing is this. America does not have to do anything directly to harm China. All that has to happen to shake China is for the U.S. not to become isolationist, but just to 1) adopt a diminished, a more traditional, interest in the world and 2) insist on fair trade.
> 
> *...Ten to 15 percent of China's GDP depends on exports to the U.S. And because much of this trade is unfair, China enjoyed a continual trade surplus with America - some $275 billion in 2017 alone. Should the U.S. decide to play hardball on trade or just merely demand that cross country trade be fair, China's internal stability would be shaken. And the Chinese know it...*
> 
> ...Some fear that if the U.S. demanded fair trade with China and an end to its technology theft, this would start a trade war. But as President Trump recently said, when America is constantly running trade deficits of hundreds of billions of dollars each year, a trade war is "good and easy to win." Although the globalists and Chinese apologists will dispute that point, the president's logic is hard to refute._​


Bold mine.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I wonder what President David Dennison has planned for today? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> I came across this the other day & just hadn't got to it:
> 
> Art Of The Deal
> 
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> 
> 
> More at the link.
> 
> Obviously, this is just one man's word & a somewhat sceptical one at that. I know of local businesses who will use Chinese steel for everything, some who will use Chinese steel for cladding and American for structural & some who will use nothing but American. I have a buddy who purchases for a smaller oilfield supply company (smaller rigs, etc.) in Calgary, they use nothing but American steel.
> 
> Related:
> 
> A Mystery Inside an Enigma Wrapped in an Egg Roll
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.


FeXL, the issue with China is that their business lacks anything that comes close to scruples. With their size they must have near double digit growth or else chaos will happen internally. They are the camel in the tent. They also own huge holdings of U.S. Treasury Bills, which is why I think Trump ( although he is probably not smart enough to realise that implication) has dwelled on Mexico, his personal whipping boy, and Canada’s trade figures. While he is close on Mexico’s deficit at around $60 Billion, the U.S. actually has a trade surplus of $12 Billion with Canada, not a deficit as he so firmly states..( as attested by the U.S. Department of Commerce report which he signed....remember he does read anything. ) China sits a around $350 Billion in trade deficit. Mostly from U.S. companies transferring production to China. He has in his mind that deficits in trade are killing the U.S., where they are usually caused by a country not saving enough and spending more. It should be noted that during the Great Depression the U.S. actually had a trade surplus......


----------



## Macfury

Actually, you can make a case that either Canada or the US are running a trade surplus/deficit.

Trade deficits are not caused by people without enough money to spend. Given more money to spend there is no guarantee that they would buy domestically.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Actually, you can make a case that either Canada or the US are running a trade surplus/deficit.
> 
> Trade deficits are not caused by people without enough money to spend. Given more money to spend there is no guarantee that they would buy domestically.


This is very true! So, one thought is if everyone is buying you have to have the money to do so. The other is, imports are retarding domestic production which people have money to buy. If you think about it, most imports of consumer goods are from companies who moved production. The fear is a repeat of 2008. The bond market is nervous right now.....the oil sector is in trouble as few are investing the money in it. These are big buck long term for return projects. The Fed in the U.S. is thinking about rate increases. Maybe 3 or 4 this year. The issue is whether they will come quickly or dragged over time. Tariff Wars are inflationary, which compounds the rate issue. Wouldn’t want to be an equity trader today.


----------



## FeXL

RACISM! NFL Owner to Ban Players from Kneeling During National Anthem



> Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross has just whacked the hornet’s nest with his comments that all players on his team would be required to stand for the national anthem next season.
> 
> ...
> 
> _If any Miami Dolphins player wants to kneel during the national anthem during the 2018 season – and beyond – team owner Stephen Ross has news for them: don’t even think about it.
> 
> “All of our players will be standing,” Ross told the Daily News Monday at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square..._​


We'll see if he has the spine to carry this out.


----------



## Rps

Say Donald how’s your day going so far? 

Let’s see...

Your top economic advisor resigned, you’re being sued by a porn star, you’re suing California, you’re staff advisor has broken the law, the EU is threatening to hit you with tariffs on steel, jeans, motorcycles, bourbon, orange juice, peanut butter, cranberries, your HUD Secretary can’t tell you what the department does outside of buying a $31,000 table and the candidate you are backing in a Senate bi-election is losing in the polls. We will ignore that your House Leader is against you on most matters............ah! nice to have energy in the White House.


----------



## Macfury

I suspect that Trump's tariffs are primarily being used: 
* as a tool to conspicuously support heavy industry and manufacturing.
* to demonstrate that he is a tough negotiator

I think that this will simmer down quickly and Trump will be able to point to a few victories and minor improvements in trade positioning.


promote


Rps said:


> This is very true! So, one thought is if everyone is buying you have to have the money to do so. The other is, imports are retarding domestic production which people have money to buy. If you think about it, most imports of consumer goods are from companies who moved production. The fear is a repeat of 2008. The bond market is nervous right now.....the oil sector is in trouble as few are investing the money in it. These are big buck long term for return projects. The Fed in the U.S. is thinking about rate increases. Maybe 3 or 4 this year. The issue is whether they will come quickly or dragged over time. Tariff Wars are inflationary, which compounds the rate issue. Wouldn’t want to be an equity trader today.


----------



## CubaMark

_*Rps,* you missed one:_

*Trump Confuses North and South Korea*










Saturday night, in the middle of a comic speech at the Gridiron Club, President Trump wandered into a completely serious riff about North Korea. “It was headed for disaster and now we’re talking,” he announced. “They, by the way, called up a couple of days ago; they said, ‘We would like to talk,’” Trump said. “And I said, ‘So would we, but you have to denuke.’”

The claim that Trump had spoken with North Korea confounded foreign policy observers. “It was not clear whether Trump was describing a direct conversation or messages sent through diplomatic channels,” reported the Washington Post.

The answer turns out to be: neither. Trump was describing a conversation with South Korea. 

An official from the National Security Council tells Yonhap News Agency, a South Korean publication, that Trump “was referring to his March 1 phone call with South Korean President Moon Jae-in.” 

So Trump was close, geographically, but instead of describing a breakthrough exchange with the totalitarian enemy that is developing nukes and threatening to kill us, he was describing the democratic ally that has no nukes and is trying not to be killed.

Trump was right that it was a Korea, but he had the wrong one. There are so many Koreas these days, it is hard to keep track.

(New York Magazine)​


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I suspect that Trump's tariffs are primarily being used:
> * as a tool to conspicuously support heavy industry and manufacturing.
> * to demonstrate that he is a tough negotiator
> 
> I think that this will simmer down quickly and Trump will be able to point to a few victories and minor improvements in trade positioning.
> 
> 
> promote


My reading of his personality is he is a zero-sum person....there must be a winner ( him ) and a loser ( anyone else ). Not a good trait for a leader....especially one who either doesn’t read or can’t read what he is signing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> My reading of his personality is he is a zero-sum person....there must be a winner ( him ) and a loser ( anyone else ). Not a good trait for a leader....especially one who either doesn’t read or can’t read what he is signing.



And sometimes he doesn't even sign things. Hush agreements, for example.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> And sometimes he doesn't even sign things. Hush agreements, for example.


You can write your own caption


----------



## Macfury

I wish Justin Trudeau would do the same for Canada.



Rps said:


> My reading of his personality is he is a zero-sum person....there must be a winner ( him ) and a loser ( anyone else ). Not a good trait for a leader....especially one who either doesn’t read or can’t read what he is signing.


----------



## Macfury

So the unnamed source from the National Security Council says Trump thought South Korea had nukes? I really doubt it. Try Occam's Razor once in awhile, CM.



CubaMark said:


> Saturday night, in the middle of a comic speech at the Gridiron Club, President Trump wandered into a completely serious riff about North Korea. “It was headed for disaster and now we’re talking,” he announced. “They, by the way, called up a couple of days ago; they said, ‘We would like to talk,’” Trump said. “And I said, ‘So would we, but you have to denuke.’”
> 
> The claim that Trump had spoken with North Korea confounded foreign policy observers. “It was not clear whether Trump was describing a direct conversation or messages sent through diplomatic channels,” reported the Washington Post.
> 
> The answer turns out to be: neither. Trump was describing a conversation with South Korea.
> 
> An official from the National Security Council tells Yonhap News Agency, a South Korean publication, that Trump “was referring to his March 1 phone call with South Korean President Moon Jae-in.”
> 
> So Trump was close, geographically, but instead of describing a breakthrough exchange with the totalitarian enemy that is developing nukes and threatening to kill us, he was describing the democratic ally that has no nukes and is trying not to be killed.
> 
> Trump was right that it was a Korea, but he had the wrong one. There are so many Koreas these days, it is hard to keep track.
> 
> (New York Magazine)​


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I wish Justin Trudeau would do the same for Canada.


I wish he'd stop making an international embarrassment out of himself & go live on some ice floe in the Arctic or something. He could preach Globull Warming to the seals. A twofer!


----------



## FeXL

*Becauth ith's 2015!*

Further on the Goof, his hand picked cadre & the Charlie Foxtrot of an India trip.

Gatecrashers and a run on the Crown Royal: The other screw-ups on Trudeau’s India trip



> As if the widely denigrated extended photo-op tour, and the inclusion of a convicted terrorist on some invitation lists wasn’t bad enough, the National Post has learned of a ruckus at the gates of the Canadian High Commissioner’s residence during the tour and further reports of MPs in the prime minister’s entourage posing with a former politician with unsavoury connections. Beyond that, the trip was a complete disappointment from the perspective of some of those keen to make business connections — “just a mess,” says a disappointed businessman who was there.
> 
> The atmosphere at the reception at the residence of Nadir Patel, the Canadian High Commissioner to India, was more like “spring break” than a formal diplomatic party, according to one attendee, who said there was so much heavy drinking that the bar ran out of Crown Royal within the first hour.
> 
> Two eyewitnesses invited to the reception, both of whom requested their names not be used, say there was also a brouhaha at the gates of the residence, when a group of young Sikh men poured out of a couple of cars and charged past those in the lineup.


Related:

Rex Murphy: Perhaps Justin Trudeau's India trip could have been salvaged with some elephants?



> There were a number of first-class opportunities missed on the Prime Minister’s costume tour of the great democratic state of India. The merest child, let alone the wizened sages of the PMO, could have told them that there should have been elephants, with Justin and Sophie doing yoga stands inside the howdah. How much more striking is a namaste from the back of a shrieking pachyderm.
> 
> Most likely his planners were just careless, or what is the same thing, not up on their Kipling, as they very well should be.
> 
> Well, he’s back in Canada now, but as with every good vacation, the memory lingers on. So much indeed, that in this week of Canada’s first full feminist budget (almost scoured clean, as Andrew Coyne has noted of, well, economics) it was the trip not the budget that summoned the eyes and ears of every Canadian.


He notes:



> Now of course, the Indian government, being composed of adults, has utterly rejected the Pink Panther theory of Atwal the Assassin’s presence, without qualification calling it “baseless and unacceptable.” Back in Canada the government continues to back the travesty account, resulting in the grim spectacle of Ralph Goodale (who was quite coherent in a previous administration) reduced to gibbering non-sequiturs and patent nonsense to the press corps on Thursday afternoon. In that exchange Mr. Goodale had a choice to make between his dignity and sticking to the talking points. Alas, the talking points triumphed.
> 
> This is what happens, I suppose, when you skip elephants on the tour. The minor gods are angered and things turn odd.


----------



## Macfury

Happy to see Gary "Carbon Tax" Cohn taking leave of the Trump Administration. Bring in a real conservative!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Happy to see Gary "Carbon Tax" Cohn taking leave of the Trump Administration. Bring in a real conservative!


Yep. Definitely a feature, not a bug (as implied earlier).


----------



## FeXL

When you've lost Bill Maher...

Bill Maher echoes Trump supporters, rips media for ‘bulls—’ stories: ‘So much of it is fake’



> Comedian Bill Maher says President Trump’s supporters often have credible claims of “fake” news due to websites habitually framing “bulls—” stories as controversies.
> 
> The New York Times, The Washington Post, BBC, Fox News, BuzzFeed and a host of news organizations were recently excoriated by HBO’s “Real Time” host for treating Americans as “cocks in [the media’s] cock fights.” He used over four minutes to lampoon journalists for behaving like Russian state actors who meddled in the 2016 presidential election.
> 
> “I used to think something was news if a journalist reported it, but really I live in a world where it’s news if Mariah Carey’s [breast] flops out because Twitter will respond and then a ‘journalist’ reports on the ‘controversy,’” the liberal comedian began late Friday.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk $15/hr burger flipper fallout.

California Fast Food Restaurant Debuts Burger Flipping Robot



> The “Fight for 15” is facing an uphill climb now that corporations threatened by the Bernie Sanders endorsed movement for a national $15 per hour minimum wage are rapidly moving to automate.
> 
> Bernie and progressive Democrats have invested much into mobilizing armies of unskilled workers into an attack on the capitalist system with the perceived benefits being that they will reliably vote.
> 
> This has always been a reach because its hard to put much faith into people who won’t expend much effort into bettering themselves to the point where they can escape working in fast food restaurants.
> 
> It is also a very cynical campaign because what Bernie and his minions refuse to tell these people is that the $15 minimum wage is going to be more hurtful for them in the long run as rising prices lead to job cuts and the companies look to self-service kiosks and automated processes.
> 
> The activists now have a glimpse of the future and it’s called Flippy the Burger-Flipping Robot.


----------



## FeXL

Won't see this on MJ or the Clinton News Network. Doesn't fit the narrative...

Teen attempted to detonate explosive device at Pine View, researched ISIS



> Police said a homemade explosive device was the item discovered in a backpack at Pine View High School Monday, that forced the evacuation of the school. Police said if the device had detonated, it would have caused significant injury or death. Police have a suspect in custody.
> 
> A warrant served at the male juvenile's home and items were found consistent with the materials used to build the device. Police also said the suspect had been researching information and expressing interest in ISIS and promoting the organization.


----------



## SINC

*Trump’s Approval Rating Just Passed Obama’s at This Point in Presidency, According to Rasmussen Poll*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-approval-rating-just-passed-230047719.html


----------



## FeXL

Hmmm...

‘Trump Has Changed the Game,’ North Korea Experts Say

Kim Jong-un’s Peace Gambit

Trump to Meet With Kim Jong-un; Says ‘Sanctions Will Remain Until an Agreement Is Reached’

Three Americans Held Hostage as Trump Agrees to Meet with Kim

Inside the Ring: Pentagon Steps Up North Korea Military Planning

I can see the Progs being all over this. Norkancide, anyone?


----------



## SINC

Edmonton Journal: Lawrence Solomon: The real reason for Trump’s steel tariffs? He’s preparing for war

Lawrence Solomon: The real reason for Trumpâ€™s steel tariffs? Heâ€™s preparing for war | Financial Post


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the Broward Cowards s'more.

Disgraced "Cop" Scot Peterson Reported Hearing Shots Inside Parkland School Over Radio, _Advised Other Cops to Stay Away_



> You'll remember he subsequently lied about claiming he heard shots outside the school, and bravely stepped out into danger to confront the outdoors gunman.
> 
> Spoiler alert: _*He's a coward and a liar.*_
> 
> _Roundly vilified for not entering a Parkland high school during a mass shooting, Broward Deputy Scot Peterson insisted publicly that he believed that gunfire was happening outside on campus -- not inside the building.
> 
> But internal radio dispatches released by the Broward Sheriff’s Office Thursday show Peterson immediately fixated on Building 12 and even radioed that gunfire was happening "inside.
> 
> And, just as school shooter Nikolas Cruz was fleeing the building after killing 17 people, Peterson warned his fellow officers to stay away -- even as wounded students and staff lay inside.
> 
> "Do not approach the 12 or 1300 building, stay at least 500 feet away," a panicked Peterson shouted as people screamed in the background.
> 
> The second-by-second timeline and audio recording of police radio chatter sheds new light on the chaotic and much scrutinized law enforcement response to the bloodshed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High...
> 
> They also appear to show that other deputies may have refrained from rushing into the school at the direction of Peterson and a Parkland captain. The response by the agency has been the subject of national scrutiny, and is currently under review by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement._​


Yeah, emphasis mine.

Curious how those two traits often go hand in hand...

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Still with the Russkies?

‘Hilltendo’ for the win: CNN’s Russian troll hunt digs up goofy Clinton video game



> The internet appears largely unimpressed by a meticulous CNN investigation linking Russia to an anti-Hillary Clinton video game that was played an estimated 19,000 times in the run up to the 2016 presidential election.
> 
> ‘Hilltendo’ is a primitive Flash-based browser game in which the player helps Hillary Clinton delete classified emails and scoop up money from medieval Arab dictatorships. It was developed and marketed by the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency, the CNN report claims, citing website registration information and evidence gathered on social media.
> 
> Although credited with single-handedly deciding the outcome of the 2016 presidential election, the shadowy den of Russian trolls have apparently enjoyed less success in the video game industry. Only an estimated 19,000 people played the goofy game in the weeks before the November election. *The hard-hitting CNN investigation* attributes the underwhelming figure to the fact that the game was _“not playable on smartphones,”_ adding that ‘Hilltendo’ received little to no exposure on social media.


Bold mine.

ROTFLMAO...

More:



> The internet did some laughing of its own after CNN published its latest “Russian meddling” exclusive on Thursday.
> 
> _“Yep! Hey CNN, you finally cracked the case! It was this Russian video game that made 66 million Americans vote for Trump! Now can we move on to the illegal spying Obama ordered the FBI to conduct on the Trump campaign?” reads the most-liked comment on CNN’s Facebook post about the story._​ [Trump received around 63 million votes, actually – RT]
> 
> _“I saw this, downloaded it and it's why I voted for Trump, I'm a russian victim. I'm so sorry guys, I was meddled with, my vote was influenced,” jokes another top comment._​


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Flippy was briefly offline because the human help couldn't keep up with it. They'll have to learn to work twice as hard for $15 an hour. Another victory for progressives!

Also:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.







And:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






These minimum wage increases are probably the greatest gift to automation companies that they could have asked for.



FeXL said:


> Let's talk $15/hr burger flipper fallout.
> 
> California Fast Food Restaurant Debuts Burger Flipping Robot


----------



## FeXL

Daily Caller: CNN Used to Run a "Trump Jobs Tracker" as Part of Its "Facts First" Branding Campaign. But Then Jobs Began Growing Under Trump, And They Stopped Tracking Them.



> _The network’s "Trump Jobs Tracker" is part of CNN Digital's effort to keep its audience updated on whether the president is keeping his promises to release the full potential of the American economy after eight years of anemic growth under former President Barack Obama.
> 
> One problem: The last time someone updated the tracker was Jan. 5, when the economy had only added 1,839,000 jobs since Trump took office. Under that pace, according to CNN, Trump is "off track" to fulfill his promise that he’d help create "25 million jobs in 10 years, or 208,333 jobs per month."
> 
> 
> Neglecting the tracker is a real shame. Federal economists estimated that employers added 200,000 jobs in January and Friday’s job report showed another 313,000 added in February -- more than enough to be on a healthy pace to average 208,333 jobs per month in 2018._​


Can't have any facts getting in the way of the narrative...


----------



## SINC

*Despite Mueller’s Push, House Republicans Declare No Evidence of Collusion*

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## CubaMark

_Aaaaand another one bites the dust..._

*Trump fires Rex Tillerson as secretary of state*










US President Donald Trump has sacked Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, replacing him with the director of the CIA, Mike Pompeo.

Thanking Mr Tillerson for his service on Twitter, Mr Trump said the new state secretary would do "a fantastic job".

Mr Tillerson, a former chief executive of ExxonMobil, was only appointed to the job just over a year ago.

The president also nominated Gina Haspel to become the first woman director of the CIA.

The Department of State said Mr Tillerson had not spoken to the president and was "unaware of the reason" for his firing.

* * *​
Speaking to reporters outside the White House on Tuesday, Mr Trump said his differences with Mr Tillerson came down to personal "chemistry".

"We got along actually quite well, but we disagreed on things," said the president.

"When you look at the Iran deal, I think it's terrible. I guess he thought it was OK.

* * *​
Rex Tillerson, who as a long-time corporate executive was an unconventional pick for secretary of state, seemed like he was on thin ice from very early on in his administration tenure.

He was distrusted by veteran State Department employees, who viewed him as an outside interloper with little affinity for the organisation he headed. The president, initially enamoured with the brash Texan, quickly appeared to sour on his pick, as he frequently broke with the White House line on foreign policy.

Reportedly calling the president a moron (intensified by a choice expletive) certainly didn't help, either.

(BBC)​


----------



## CubaMark

From a Reddit thread today on the topic:



> *metalgearzoe*
> 
> "During a trip to Beijing in September, Mr. Tillerson told reporters that he already had “a couple, three” lines into North Korea to get communication started with the United States.
> 
> Mr. Trump erupted the next morning, and denigrated the effort on Twitter by saying Mr. Tillerson was “wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man.”
> 
> “Save your energy Rex,” he added, “we’ll do what has to be done!” Mr. Trump later said he wished his secretary of state were tougher. The Chinese were left to wonder why Mr. Trump sent an emissary whose message the president did not believe in"
> 
> *Rex Tillerson Out as Trump’s Secretary of State, Replaced by Mike Pompeo*
> 
> What is going through Trump's mind?​


----------



## Macfury

Another good call by Trump. Tillerson was dead weight and some of his wavery ideas about things like the Paris Accord flew in the face of Trump's common sense attitude to that nonsense.


----------



## FeXL

You've posted about a number of these firings. Why do they bother you so much?

Hate to see Progs of any political stripe given the shoe?

MF gets it right.



CubaMark said:


> Aaaaand another one bites the dust...


----------



## Rps




----------



## Macfury

Since when have progressives cared about casual sex?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Since when have progressives cared about casual sex?




Why are you obsessed with what "progressives" think? And what do "progressives" have to do with the Jesus meme?


----------



## FeXL

WTF is "raw dogged"?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You've posted about a number of these firings. Why do they bother you so much?


"bother" me? Not at all - it's quite entertaining to watch.

Not surprised that the Trumpites in here see nothing wrong with the pace of dismissals.. :lmao: 

There are others who see it as, shall we say, odd:


*A timeline of high-profile resignations and firings in the Trump White House*

Northwestern University political science professor Alvin Tillery said no other presidential administration in the modern era has seen turnover comparable to the first year of Trump’s White House.

“The Trump administration is an extreme outlier, both in their inability to staff positions with people of quality, but also with the series of resignations from the inner circle of the White House,” said Tillery, who specializes in American politics, presidential leadership and diversity issues.

“This is an unprecedented moment in the modern era, where the president can’t find top-quality candidates. . . . This president seems to have the reverse Midas touch.”

(Chicago Sun-Times)​
*And today there's this interesting little nugget....*

*Trump’s longtime personal assistant fired over security issues*

President Trump’s longtime personal assistant was fired and escorted out of the White House on Monday over security issues, according to multiple reports.

John McEntee was canned over issues with his security clearance and because he’s currently under investigation by the Department of Homeland Security for serious financial crimes, sources told CNN.

The investigation is not related to Trump, the sources added.

McEntee was one of Trump’s longest-serving aides for the past three years, according to the Wall Street Journal, which first broke the news. McEntee was not allowed to collect his belongings when he was escorted from White House grounds. He left without his coat.

“It’s not going to be great for morale,” one White House official said of McEntee’s termination.

Spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders declined to comment, saying, “We don’t comment on personnel issues.”

(NYPost)​


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump administration sets new record for censoring and withholding US government files*










Donald Trump’s administration has set a new record for censoring, withholding or saying it could not find records requested by citizens, journalists and researchers.

An Associated Press (AP) analysis found those who asked for records under the Freedom of Information Act received censored files or nothing in 78 per cent of 823,222 requests – a record over the past decade. 

The federal government also spent $40.6m (£29.2m) in legal fees last year to defend its decision to withhold federal files.

(The Independent)​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ]Donald Trump’s administration has set a new record for censoring, withholding or saying it could not find records requested by citizens, journalists and researchers.


The Trump admin also received a record number of FOI requests. No surprise in these stats.


----------



## Macfury

I have no idea what progressives actually think--what they say is goofy enough.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why are you obsessed with what "progressives" think? And what do "progressives" have to do with the Jesus meme?


----------



## eMacMan

Going by the latest Nicki Haley statement, The US and their Al Queda/ISIS proxies are planning a false flag chemical attack, which will the US will use as an excuse to destroy what little remains of the Syrian infrastructure.

God I wish people would size images so they don't stretch half way to Saskatchewan. Makes things hard to read as the text stretches as well.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, if they're not doing their jobs, Trump gives them the shoe. The way it should be. Instead of keeping them on in perpetuity, like some of the recent Prog POTUS' have done.



CubaMark said:


> "bother" me? Not at all - it's quite entertaining to watch.
> 
> Not surprised that the Trumpites in here see nothing wrong with the pace of dismissals..


Yeah, The Progs... 



CubaMark said:


> There are others who see it as, shall we say, odd:


So, what's the thrust here? McEntee should have been kept on? This ain't Progville. This is how the real world operates.



CubaMark said:


> President Trump’s longtime personal assistant was fired and escorted out of the White House on Monday over security issues, according to multiple reports.


----------



## FeXL

That's rich. Curious, never heard you complaining about Barry's complete & utter lack of cooperation with FOIP requests, either for editing or submitting them.



CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump’s administration has set a new record for censoring, withholding or saying it could not find records requested by citizens, journalists and researchers.


----------



## FeXL

'Course not. It's a feature!

Noncitizen Voters in Pennsylvania Not a ‘Glitch,’ Philly Official Says



> Al Schmidt bristles at the description, often attributed to him, of noncitizen voters in Pennsylvania as a “glitch.”
> 
> Schmidt, a Philadelphia city commissioner who has been sounding the alarm since 2012 about noncitizens on the voting rolls, said the word, misattributed to him, would be accurate if ineligible voters managed to elude safeguards in the motor-voter law.
> 
> “That would be a glitch,” he told LifeZette. “In this case, it was never designed that way.”
> 
> Congress passed the Motor Voter law, formally known as the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, to encourage people to register to vote when they got their driver’s licenses. *The problem, Schmidt said, is that Pennsylvania also allows legal permanent (noncitizen) residents to get driver’s licenses after a year in the United States.*


Yeah, bold mine.

More:



> Eventually, Schmidt said, he discovered that noncitizens were registering to vote through the "Trojan horse" of the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT), which he estimated accounts for more than three-quarters of the ineligible voters on the rolls.
> 
> The problem extends far beyond Philadelphia. Schmidt testified before a state legislative committee last year that the *Pennsylvania Department of State had cross-checked registered voters against state driver's license records and found about 100,000 names of registered voters who had green cards when they obtained their driver's licenses.*


Yeah, mine, too.


----------



## FeXL

Sally Chardonnay still pissed at us Deplorables.

Confirmed: Hillary still is Bitter, Tone-Deaf, hates The Deplorables, and is not well



> “I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward,” blames racists, press, FBI and white married women pressured by husbands for her loss.


This is my schadenfreude smile —> 

Related:

Hillary Nearly Falls Down Stairs Twice In India



> Hillary Clinton reportedly tripped down a flight of stairs twice in India Monday, requiring the help of two aides to make it down , according to a video obtained by the American Mirror.
> 
> Clinton is in the country to participate in the India Today Conclave, where she claimed President Donald Trump only won the election because he go the support of people she famously called “deplorables.”
> 
> Clinton was attempting to walk down a flight of stairs without a railing when she nearly went down, twice.


Some might call that karma...

More:



> She eventually made it to the bottom of the stairs.


Either way, she'd have made it to the bottom...

Related, too:


----------



## FeXL

My GAS factor is down in the negatives somewhere. :lmao:

According to @MichLKosinski morale is so low at the State Department that there are seasoned diplomats who sit in their car and cry because things are so bad.

Time to put on the big girl panties & suck it up, princesses.


----------



## Macfury

I'm just smiling thinking about this!



FeXL said:


> My GAS factor is down in the negatives somewhere. :lmao:
> 
> According to @MichLKosinski morale is so low at the State Department that there are seasoned diplomats who sit in their car and cry because things are so bad.
> 
> Time to put on the big girl panties & suck it up, princesses.


----------



## FeXL

Another Prog narrative fails under scrutiny.

Federal Tax Revenues Hit Record Highs — Are Trump's Tax Cuts Paying For Themselves?



> The latest monthly Treasury report on taxes and spending shows that gross tax receipts in February were $1.4 billion higher than the year before. Weren't the Republican tax cuts supposed to explode the deficit?
> 
> X According to the report, the government took in $238.2 billion in taxes in February. The year before, tax revenues were $236.8 billion.
> 
> For fiscal year 2018, which started last October, taxes are up $50.5 billion compared with the same months last year, and are at a _record high level for this five-month span_.


More:



> *What these numbers do show is that all the hand-wringing about the impact of the tax cuts on federal deficits was based on wildly exaggerated estimates of revenue losses, which failed to take into account the fact that a faster growing economy would offset at least of the lost revenue.*


Yeah, my bold.

Further (the iron...):



> Democrats once understood this truism. It was JFK, after all, who said in 1962 "it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low — and the soundest way to raise revenues in the long run is to cut rates now.''


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm just smiling thinking about this!




What, putting on your big girl panties?


----------



## Macfury

How does that follow? Is this prog logic?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What, putting on your big girl panties?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> How does that follow? Is this prog logic?


At its finest...


----------



## eMacMan

Right on the mark. The photo at the top is actually a video and well worth the 2 minutes.
https://www.rt.com/shows/icymi-with-polly-boiko/421536-russian-election-vote-military/


----------



## CubaMark

*snicker*


----------



## Macfury

I always try to make sure that these haven't been posted _very _recently.


----------



## FeXL

Wait...wha...???

Congressman suggests Second Amendment as means of opposing Trump



> A Democratic congressman from Long Island implied that Americans should grab weapons and oppose President Trump by force, if the commander-in-chief doesn’t follow the Constitution.
> 
> Rep. Tom Suozzi made the remark to constituents at a town hall last week, saying that folks opposed to Trump might resort to the “Second Amendment.”


So, lemmee get this straight... The party that opposes gun ownership is now suggestion that gun owners take their weapons & oppose Trump? Is that the thrust here?

Related:

Conor Lamb Exposes Dems' Duplicity On Gun Control; Are Student Protestors Paying Attention?



> While viciously attacking Republicans for opposing gun control, Democrats are celebrating the apparent victory of gun-loving Conor Lamb in the Pennsylvania special election. What would those student gun control protestors say if they knew about that?
> 
> Lamb has already declared victory, and appears to have an insurmountable lead in an extremely tight race over his Republican opponent Rick Saccone in a district that went heavily for Donald Trump. Whatever the outcome, it's being heralded as a referendum on Trump and a bellwether for Democrats prospects in the fall midterm elections.
> 
> What has barely been mentioned over the past few weeks, however, is the fact that Lamb ran as a something of a poster boy for the NRA.


Curious that the only way a Dem can win an election is to use a Republican's platform...


----------



## FeXL

Deputy and Counselors Recommended Institutionalizing Nikolas Cruz Long Before School Massacre



> Officials were so concerned about the mental stability of the student accused of last month’s Florida school massacre that they decided he should be forcibly committed.
> 
> But the recommendation was never acted upon.
> 
> A commitment under the law would have made it more difficult if not impossible for Nikolas Cruz to obtain a gun legally.
> 
> Cruz is accused of the shooting rampage that killed 14 students and three school employees at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland on Feb. 14. In addition, 17 people were wounded.
> 
> But more than a year earlier, documents in the criminal case against Nikolas Cruz and obtained by The Associated Press show school officials and a sheriff’s deputy recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be involuntarily committed for a mental evaluation.


BUT IT'S THE GUNS!!! SCARY GUNS, I TELL YOU!!! AR'S!!! MILITARY STYLE!!! SEMI-AUTOMATICS!!! GUNS!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Deputy and Counselors Recommended Institutionalizing Nikolas Cruz Long Before School Massacre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT IT'S THE GUNS!!! SCARY GUNS, I TELL YOU!!! AR'S!!! MILITARY STYLE!!! SEMI-AUTOMATICS!!! GUNS!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!




You'd have to be an idiot not to see that the availability of guns made the job much easier for him.


----------



## FeXL

You'd have to be an idiot or a Prog (but I repeat myself) to not acknowledge the fact that this little princess was reported to local, state & federal authorities 39 times prior to him using the f'ing gun. You people are completely unable to separate cause from effect.

Ergo, it's still the gun's fault in the mind of the gun control fruit loops & whackos.

Would you blame Buck and be screaming for knife control if he had used a knife? Would you blame Estwing and be screaming for hammer control if he had used a hammer? Would you blame Louisville Slugger and be screaming for bat control if he had used a baseball bat? Would you blame General Motors and be screaming for Suburban control if he had used a Suburban? 

All of these "tools" make it easier to kill someone yet never, not even once, have I ever read anything about blame being apportioned there.

It's always GUUUUUUUUUUNS!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You'd have to be an idiot not to see that the availability of guns made the job much easier for him.


Related:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You'd have to be an idiot or a Prog (but I repeat myself) to not acknowledge the fact that this little princess was reported to local, state & federal authorities 39 times prior to him using the f'ing gun. You people are completely unable to separate cause from effect.
> 
> 
> 
> Ergo, it's still the gun's fault in the mind of the gun control fruit loops & whackos.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you blame Buck and be screaming for knife control if he had used a knife? Would you blame Estwing and be screaming for hammer control if he had used a hammer? Would you blame Louisville Slugger and be screaming for bat control if he had used a baseball bat? Would you blame General Motors and be screaming for Suburban control if he had used a Suburban?
> 
> 
> 
> All of these "tools" make it easier to kill someone yet never, not even once, have I ever read anything about blame being apportioned there.
> 
> 
> 
> It's always GUUUUUUUUUUNS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:




If he had used a knife, it's likely he would not have killed as many people, if any. Buy an effing clue.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> If he had used a knife, it's likely he would not have killed as many people, if any. Buy an effing clue.


I don't think you're following the logic. How many people does something need to kill before progs such as yourself want to ban it? What's your cutoff?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I don't think you're following the logic. How many people does something need to kill before progs such as yourself want to ban it? What's your cutoff?


*shakes head in disbelief at freddie's comment*


----------



## FeXL

Yet each one of those alternatives I listed kills far more people in the US than AR-15 & similar firearms in any given year. As do handguns.

Where's the hue & cry from the left? There is none. Why? 'Cause this ain't about the loss of life. It's about controlling the portion of the population that flat out refuses to be controlled.

Speaking of clewless...



Freddie_Biff said:


> If he had used a knife, it's likely he would not have killed as many people, if any. Buy an effing clue.


----------



## Macfury

This is really what it comes down to--control.

When you have a large population of people addicted to drugs (which kill in insane number of people) there is little call to ban those drugs. Instead, they want to make sure that these people can feed their addiction safely through a government controlled program.



FeXL said:


> Yet each one of those alternatives I listed kills far more people in the US than AR-15 & similar firearms in any given year. As do handguns.
> 
> Where's the hue & cry from the left? There is none. Why? 'Cause this ain't about the loss of life. It's about controlling the portion of the population that flat out refuses to be controlled.
> 
> Speaking of clewless...


----------



## pm-r

> Yet each one of those alternatives I listed kills far more people in the US than AR-15 & similar firearms in any given year. As do handguns.



BTW: There's one very glaring omission in those listed groups — automobile deaths!!

And I believe that US 2016 statistics were some of the highest ever recorded.

But I guess some don't consider them as related somehow.


----------



## FeXL

pm-r said:


> BTW: There's one very glaring omission in those listed groups — automobile deaths!!
> 
> And I believe that US 2016 statistics were some of the highest ever recorded.
> 
> But I guess some don't consider them as related somehow.


If the Progs don't pay attention to any of the other numbers, then vehicle statistics ain't gonna change their minds.


----------



## eMacMan

pm-r said:


> BTW: There's one very glaring omission in those listed groups — automobile deaths!!
> 
> And I believe that US 2016 statistics were some of the highest ever recorded.
> 
> But I guess some don't consider them as related somehow.


Strange that none of our Gun Seizure freaks have thrown away their keys.


----------



## CubaMark

OMFG. All of the "Trump is gonna get us into WWIII" hyperbole is rapidly moving into plausible territory. This is a simply insane choice for NSA. In-sane.

*H.R. McMaster out as national security adviser, Trump taps John Bolton*










U.S. President Donald Trump is replacing national security adviser H.R. McMaster with the former UN ambassador John Bolton, injecting a hawkish foreign policy voice into his administration ahead of key decisions on Iran and North Korea.

** * **​
Bolton, 69, will be Trump's third national security adviser. Trump has clashed with McMaster, a respected three-star general, and talk that McMaster would soon leave the administration had picked up in recent weeks.

His departure follows Trump's dramatic ouster of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson last week.

It also comes after someone at the White House leaked that Trump was urged in briefing documents not to congratulate Russian President Vladimir Putin about his recent re-election win. Trump did it anyway. 

** * **​
Bolton, probably the most divisive foreign policy expert ever to serve as UN ambassador, has served as a hawkish voice in Republican foreign policy circles for decades. He met with Trump and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly in early March to discuss North Korea and Iran.

** * **​
A strong supporter of the Iraq war and an advocate for aggressive use of U.S. power in foreign policy, Bolton was unable to win Senate confirmation after his nomination to the UN post alienated many Democrats and even some Republicans. He resigned after serving 17 months as a Bush "recess appointment," which allowed him to hold the job on a temporary basis without Senate confirmation.

(CBC)​


----------



## Macfury

I love it, just on the reactions alone! Yours was perfect, CM!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I love it, just on the reactions alone! Yours was perfect, CM!


Yep. You know precisely by the reactions from the Progs when Trump's hit it out of the park.


----------



## FeXL

Language warning.

American People Admit Having Facebook Data Stolen Kind Of Worth It To Watch That Little ****er Squirm



> Saying it was ultimately a small price to pay in exchange for the splendid spectacle that has followed, millions of Americans admitted Thursday that they didn’t really mind having their Facebook data stolen if it meant getting to watch that little ****er squirm. “Sure, it sucks that my private information was confiscated and used in unauthorized psychological surveys—that’s completely inexcusable—but man, looking on as that arrogant piece of **** tries to keep it together has been great...


----------



## FeXL

Sara A. Carter: House Committee Found that James Clapper Leaked Details of Pee-Pee Party Dossier and Briefing to CNN



> Inconsistent statements."
> 
> This story is actually from last week, but I missed Sara Carter's article.
> 
> I'm glad it's finally being reported:
> 
> _Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper allegedly leaked information to CNN early last year regarding the classified briefings given to then President-Elect Donald Trump and President Barack Obama on the salacious dossier claiming the Russians had compromising information on the president-elect, according to government sources, who noted the evidence of the leak was collected during the House Intelligence Committee's Russia investigation.
> 
> Clapper, who was one of four senior Obama administration officials to attend the briefing with the presidents, also stated his "profound dismay at the leaks" in an official statement issued in January, 2017 and warned that the leaks were "extremely corrosive and damaging" to national security, according to his press release._​


More:



> *Exit Question:* Will CNN feature a snarky chyron beneath the face of its new spin artist, Jake Tapper, I mean, James Clapper, stating "LOL This guy lies all the time and we print it up as truth LOL"?


<snort>

Related:

Kim Strassel: Fusion GPS Fed an Absurd Story About RUSSIA Infiltrating the NRA to Its Thousand Best Media Friends, And You'll Never Guess What Happened Next...!



> Let's just make it all up as we go.
> 
> Fusion injected another one of its #FakeNews specials into the media -- this one, a tale of Russian infiltration into the NRA. Various useful idiots in the media were duped into running the story, citing "sources," all anonymous.
> 
> Except for one.Well this one wasn't a source -- this was someone the anonymous sources had claimed had spoken of the NRA-RUSSIA connection.
> 
> Who denied the quote attributed to her, demanded to know to whom and in what context she had supposedly said the quote to.
> 
> The reporters couldn't answer her -- but they ran Fusion's nonsense anyway.


----------



## CubaMark

I was initially dismissive of Trump's (are we still calling it) "alleged" affair with porn star Stormy Daniels. I could give a rat's ass what the Orange Buffoon did under the covers. I disagree with his politics, his policies, and his inherent bigotry (you may have missed that he is again banning transgender Americans from serving in the military, for example).

What I did not appreciate was the intrigue behind the scandal. The apparent efforts to shut her up (beyond the NDA and the $130-thousand payoff). Now we're getting into serious territory... and I'm sure I won't be surprised that those who savaged the Clintons for their (alleged) silencing of political enemies (which some have alleged included murder) will hold their tongues as their beloved Donnie may have done the same...

*Andrea Dube was Stormy's political adviser from 2008, when she was considering running for the Senate against David Vitter:
*


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> I was initially dismissive of Trump's (are we still calling it) "alleged" affair with porn star Stormy Daniels. I could give a rat's ass what the Orange Buffoon did under the covers. I disagree with his politics, his policies, and his inherent bigotry (you may have missed that he is again banning transgender Americans from serving in the military, for example).
> 
> What I did not appreciate was the intrigue behind the scandal. The apparent efforts to shut her up (beyond the NDA and the $130-thousand payoff). Now we're getting into serious territory... and I'm sure I won't be surprised that those who savaged the Clintons for their (alleged) silencing of political enemies (which some have alleged included murder) will hold their tongues as their beloved Donnie may have done the same...
> 
> *Andrea Dube was Stormy's political adviser from 2008, when she was considering running for the Senate against David Vitter:
> *


Don't really follow this all that closely and now a bit more confused. Was Stormy Daniels running for Senate and the money Trump gave her which I thought was for sex was actually for her election campaign?


----------



## FeXL

Why is it always only the political right who are bigots, CM?

Tell me again how open-minded you are to organized religion & the people who practice it...



CubaMark said:


> ...and his inherent bigotry...


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Don't really follow this all that closely and now a bit more confused. Was Stormy Daniels running for Senate and the money Trump gave her which I thought was for sex was actually for her election campaign?


Sounds like he is saying the Obama admin tried to silence her.


----------



## Rps

CM I am hardly a Trump fan but who really cares about him getting his willy wet with a porn star.....the real issue is the civil suit by Zervos . Not sure if a state court can force a sitting U.S. president to testify, but if so look out....can you say impeachment!


----------



## Macfury

Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, not for bedding Lewinsky, which could be proven thanks to that ridiculous semen-stained dress.

Trump's accuser would have to prove "unwanted touching", but it would have no effect on impeachment efforts.



Rps said:


> CM I am hardly a Trump fan but who really cares about him getting his willy wet with a porn star.....the real issue is the civil suit by Zervos . Not sure if a state court can force a sitting U.S. president to testify, but if so look out....can you say impeachment!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> CM I am hardly a Trump fan but who really cares about him getting his willy wet with a porn star.....the real issue is the civil suit by Zervos . Not sure if a state court can force a sitting U.S. president to testify, but if so look out....can you say impeachment!



If it was one indiscretion, that would be one thing. But the multiple pattern of indiscretions, like Bill Clinton, suggests something pathological about Trump, cheating, and lying about it afterwards. His lack of tweets about Stormy Daniels also suggests he doesn't know how to respond, probably because she's telling the truth.


----------



## Rps

MacFury the issue is this will be a civil case. If it is deemed that Trump has to testify AND he lies, the he said she said will evolve into plausable actions...his history and his own rantings might hurt him. I don’t care if he likes extra marital humping, it would seem that that is the national past time of presidents.....but if he lies, look out. Most would argue that a married man when caught lies.....but they are not the president of the U.S.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> MacFury the issue is this will be a civil case. If it is deemed that Trump has to testify AND he lies, the he said she said will evolve into plausable actions...his history and his own rantings might hurt him. I don’t care if he likes extra marital humping, it would seem that that is the national past time of presidents.....but if he lies, look out. Most would argue that a married man when caught lies.....but they are not the president of the U.S.


Look he's also a politician. Pretty sure he will lie whatever the provocation or even if there is none whatsoever.


----------



## Macfury

Nothing that happens in a civil case is an impeachable offense.



Rps said:


> MacFury the issue is this will be a civil case. If it is deemed that Trump has to testify AND he lies, the he said she said will evolve into plausable actions...his history and his own rantings might hurt him. I don’t care if he likes extra marital humping, it would seem that that is the national past time of presidents.....but if he lies, look out. Most would argue that a married man when caught lies... but they are not the president of the U.S.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Nothing that happens in a civil case is an impeachable offense.


If he lies under oath, yes it is.


----------



## Macfury

If he lies under oath in a civil case , it is not impeachable. He would have to lie to federal prosecutors.



Rps said:


> If he lies under oath, yes it is.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If he lies under oath in a civil case , it is not impeachable. He would have to lie to federal prosecutors.


Not going to get into an argument here, but if the case progresses it will go to the discovery stage, if he lies during the deposition he’s in trouble.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> MacFury the issue is this will be a civil case. If it is deemed that Trump has to testify AND he lies, the he said she said will evolve into plausable actions...his history and his own rantings might hurt him. I don’t care if he likes extra marital humping, it would seem that that is the national past time of presidents.....but if he lies, look out. Most would argue that a married man when caught lies.....but they are not the president of the U.S.




And Trump lies. About everything. Wouldn't take a lot to catch him in one.


----------



## FeXL

Yep. Absolutely _everything_. Never told the truth in his life. Not. One. Single. Time.

As opposed to those shining, obsequious Prog examples, Bill's Wife & Barry Soetoro, neither of which uttered a false word in their lives...



Freddie_Biff said:


> And Trump lies. About everything. Wouldn't take a lot to catch him in one.


----------



## Macfury

You are getting into an argument, by mis-stating the case. An impeachable offense involves "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors" at the federal level. A civil case would not qualify. 



Rps said:


> Not going to get into an argument here, but if the case progresses it will go to the discovery stage, if he lies during the deposition he’s in trouble.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You are getting into an argument, by mis-stating the case. An impeachable offense involves "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors" at the federal level. A civil case would not qualify.



Remind me: why was Bill Clinton impeached again? I recall no treason, bribery or other high crimes or misdemeanours.


----------



## Macfury

That's because you are too lazy to research it.

Clinton lied to a Federal Grand Jury and then obstructed justice by instructing others to commit perjury to support his lies.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Remind me: why was Bill Clinton impeached again? I recall no treason, bribery or other high crimes or misdemeanours.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> That's because you are too lazy to research it.


Ziiiiiing!!!


----------



## Rps

lied to a Federal Grand Jury and then obstructed justice by instructing others to commit perjury to support his lies


quae est ipsa loquitur


----------



## Macfury

A civil case from someone involving "unwanted touching" is not going to be presented to a federal grand jury.



Rps said:


> lied to a Federal Grand Jury and then obstructed justice by instructing others to commit perjury to support his lies
> 
> 
> quae est ipsa loquitur


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's because you are too lazy to research it.
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton lied to a Federal Grand Jury and then obstructed justice by instructing others to commit perjury to support his lies.



I already knew that; nothing to research. So which of the four categories you've listed is that?


----------



## FeXL

‘Throw All That Crap Out’ – Bolton Poised To Make Big Changes At NSC To Make Sure ‘The Leaks Stop’



> Incoming national security adviser John Bolton is poised to make policy and personnel changes at the highest levels of the National Security Council, officials familiar with Bolton’s thinking and Trump’s National Security Council tell The Daily Caller.
> 
> These officials tell TheDC Bolton has been charged by President Donald Trump to stop national security leaks from inside the administration and to change the current relationship between the NSC and the president. A representative for Bolton declined to comment.
> 
> “Bolton understands that the NSC’s job is to implement the president’s policy, not to influence policy,” a former Trump NSC official told TheDC.
> 
> The official added that outgoing NSA H.R. McMaster would tell staffers before any decision was formulated that “our solutions would start with our values,” but added that “Bolton will throw all that crap out” by focusing on a threat and all available solutions.
> 
> A former U.S. official who worked closely with Bolton told TheDC Trump has specifically directed Bolton to stop leaks of national security information to the media.


Draining the swamp...


----------



## Macfury

The category of "high crimes and misdemeanors" which involves perjury under federal oath.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I already knew that; nothing to research. So which of the four categories you've listed is that?


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It's Not Illegal



> This is craziness.
> 
> _The FBI had a decade-long confidential informant relationship with the father of Pulse nightclub shooter Omar Mateen, prosecutors admitted Saturday, 12 days into the trial of his wife.
> 
> The undercover relationship with the father, Seddique Mateen, continued even though the bureau was tipped off in 2012 that its informant was himself raising money to plan a terrorist attack on the government of Pakistan.
> 
> The father's status also played a role in the FBI's decision not to seek prosecution of Omar in 2013 after they investigated him for violent threats, attorneys for the shooter's wife said. If Omar had gone to prison in that case, the infamous Pulse shooting might have been avoided.
> 
> Omar Mateen killed 49 people and injured 68 others at a gay nightclub in Orlando in June 2016._​
> As with the Parkland School shooter -- about whom the FBI received multiple tips and did not act -- the question is not "why did the FBI let this happen?", but _"how many others like this are there?"_


Stunning...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The category of "high crimes and misdemeanors" which involves perjury under federal oath.




You mean when he lied about "having sex with that woman"? Yeah, I can't imagine Trump ever having to answer questions to a Grand Jury about his indiscretions.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you've never once raised criticism about Clinton (as POTUS) using one of his interns as a humidor in the Oval Office. Nor have you ever mentioned anything on these boards about JFK's numerous affairs.

Don't you think it's more than a wee bit hypocritical to be castigating Trump for an affair that happened prior to him ever being a politician and nowhere near the White House?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean when he lied about "having sex with that woman"? Yeah, I can't imagine Trump ever having to answer questions to a Grand Jury about his indiscretions.


----------



## Macfury

I can't imagine it happening either, which is why the civil case is irrelevant to the issue of impeachment.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean when he lied about "having sex with that woman"? Yeah, I can't imagine Trump ever having to answer questions to a Grand Jury about his indiscretions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, you've never once raised criticism about Clinton (as POTUS) using one of his interns as a humidor in the Oval Office. Nor have you ever mentioned anything on these boards about JFK's numerous affairs.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you think it's more than a wee bit hypocritical to be castigating Trump for an affair that happened prior to him ever being a politician and nowhere near the White House?



How so? I've never suggested Clinton or JFK were honourable in their worldly affairs. And it's cheating just as much if it happens before or after entering politics. Trump is also well known for his philandering ways; he's a liar and a cheater, two of the many reason he's not fit to be POTUS. Why do you think his lawyers are so concerned about him being deposed? He doesn't know how not to lie.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> How so? I've never suggested Clinton or JFK were honourable in their worldly affairs. And it's cheating just as much if it happens before or after entering politics. Trump is also well known for his philandering ways; he's a liar and a cheater, two of the many reason he's not fit to be POTUS. Why do you think his lawyers are so concerned about him being deposed? *He doesn't know how not to lie.*


Yep he's a natural born politician. Thing is the same statement applied to Hiliary in spades. The Super-Elite seem to have him going in whatever direction they aim him, so I am not sure what your concern is. 

Those who dislike Trump need to present a competent candidate instead of hoping they can make Trump look worse than their guy or gal.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Yep he's a natural born politician. Thing is the same statement applied to Hiliary in spades. The Super-Elite seem to have him going in whatever direction they aim him, so I am not sure what your concern is.
> 
> Those who dislike Trump need to present a competent candidate instead of hoping they can make Trump look worse than their guy or gal.



I was a Bernie Sanders fan, though he was far too socialist in his views for the present day United States, and he's a little too old to be running again. He would have done a far better job representing his country methinks.


----------



## Macfury

Venezuela in waiting!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I was a Bernie Sanders fan, though he was far too socialist in his views for the present day United States, and he's a little too old to be running again. He would have done a far better job representing his country methinks.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Venezuela in waiting!



Because Trump is doing such a bang-up job so far. How's that wall coming that Mexico is going to pay for?


----------



## FeXL

'Cause the only one you've been critical of happens to be politically right.

Curious, no?



Freddie_Biff said:


> How so? I've never suggested Clinton or JFK were honourable in their worldly affairs. And it's cheating just as much if it happens before or after entering politics.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Because Trump is doing such a bang-up job so far. How's that wall coming that Mexico is going to pay for?


He is doing a great job so far--and the wall is coming along fine!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> .....and the wall is coming along fine!


*Photos or it isn't happening!* :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Photos or it isn't happening!* :lmao:




It isn't happening, and the military wants to pay for it almost as much as Mexico does. 

https://youtu.be/iYZKrn7Bbl8


----------



## Macfury

Military does not have a choice!

And here is the construction of the beautiful wall in Calexico.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Military does not have a choice!
> 
> And here is the construction of the beautiful wall in Calexico.


Oh, dude. You totally fell for Trump's FAKE NEWS!!! 


*Donald Trump tweets photos which erringly suggest border wall being constructed*

U.S. President Donald Trump issued a tweet trumpeting a “great” Wednesday morning meeting over his border wall.

The tweet contained a group of photos worthy of a glossy real-estate sales brochure. The pictures showed a wall being constructed complete with construction workers and planners in a variety of poses around a wall.

** * **​
While Trump did indeed have a briefing which included Department of Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, the photos are not actually of his wall getting underway.

** * **​
The photos show repairs of a barrier replacement project in Calexico, Calif., which had been pushed for since 2009. The repairs were done before Trump was denied full funding by the U.S. Congress last month, the Guardian reports.

As part of a spending package Trump reluctantly signed last week, there was $1.6 billion allotted for Trump’s wall, a far cry from the $25 billion needed to complete the project. Much of the money was allocated toward repair of existing parts of the wall rather than paying for the construction of a new barrier.

Ardent supporters of Trump were rather upset that he signed off on the package.

(Global News)​


----------



## SINC

Who knew?

*Obama Was A Cocaine-Using Gay Hustler, Says Woman Who Claims To Have Been Hawaiian Classmate*

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/barack-obama-gay-hustler-_n_4242447.html


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Who knew?
> 
> *Obama Was A Cocaine-Using Gay Hustler, Says Woman Who Claims To Have Been Hawaiian Classmate*
> 
> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/barack-obama-gay-hustler-_n_4242447.html


Oh FFS. Look at the sources: "Right Wing Watch", a right-wingnut pastor (James David Manning) who has also claimed that George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush both had anal sex with 100 men... 

Obama was another in a long line of Presidents of a war-obsessed empire who wrought havoc on the Middle East and other regions. He was only marginally better than many who came before (and far better than the one who came after). But this obsession that conservatives have with disparaging him at every (invented) opportunity for supposed moral crimes (that they seem to have no problem with in their own representatives) is just ridiculous.

What's next, another round of "birther" claims about his parentage?

What a waste of time!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Oh FFS. Look at the sources: "Right Wing Watch", a right-wingnut pastor (James David Manning) who has also claimed that George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush both had anal sex with 100 men...
> 
> 
> 
> Obama was another in a long line of Presidents of a war-obsessed empire who wrought havoc on the Middle East and other regions. He was only marginally better than many who came before (and far better than the one who came after). But this obsession that conservatives have with disparaging him at every (invented) opportunity for supposed moral crimes (that they seem to have no problem with in their own representatives) is just ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> What's next, another round of "birther" claims about his parentage?
> 
> 
> 
> What a waste of time!




Any port in a storm it seems. My criticism of Obama has more to do with his reliance on drone warfare. But people are going to believe what they want to believe, it seems. As our righty friends like to say, call it confirmation bias.


----------



## Macfury

I found Obama an appalling president because of his retrograde policies--and his phony demeanour. Those additional slurs don't make him any worse.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. That I wasn't aware that this was replacement section of wall?



CubaMark said:


> Oh, dude. You totally fell for Trump's FAKE NEWS!!!
> 
> 
> *Donald Trump tweets photos which erringly suggest border wall being constructed*
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump issued a tweet trumpeting a “great” Wednesday morning meeting over his border wall.
> 
> The tweet contained a group of photos worthy of a glossy real-estate sales brochure. The pictures showed a wall being constructed complete with construction workers and planners in a variety of poses around a wall.
> 
> ** * **​
> While Trump did indeed have a briefing which included Department of Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, the photos are not actually of his wall getting underway.
> 
> ** * **​
> The photos show repairs of a barrier replacement project in Calexico, Calif., which had been pushed for since 2009. The repairs were done before Trump was denied full funding by the U.S. Congress last month, the Guardian reports.
> 
> As part of a spending package Trump reluctantly signed last week, there was $1.6 billion allotted for Trump’s wall, a far cry from the $25 billion needed to complete the project. Much of the money was allocated toward repair of existing parts of the wall rather than paying for the construction of a new barrier.
> 
> Ardent supporters of Trump were rather upset that he signed off on the package.
> 
> (Global News)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure what you're suggesting. That I wasn't aware that this was replacement section of wall?


Your post said nothing of this being part of longstanding maintenance of the existing border... anyone seeing your post would assume you were claiming that Trump's new wall construction is underway, which it is not.


----------



## Macfury

I always assumed that strengthening and repairing the wall--as opposed to patching--was part of the project.



CubaMark said:


> Your post said nothing of this being part of longstanding maintenance of the existing border... anyone seeing your post would assume you were claiming that Trump's new wall construction is underway, which it is not.


----------



## FeXL

I wouldn't be climbing too high on my horse, Clock Girl...



CubaMark said:


> Oh, dude. You totally fell for Trump's FAKE NEWS!!!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I wouldn't be climbing too high on my horse, Clock Girl...


FeXL, you have my permission to go straight to Hell, do not pass Go.

As I've already explained, but your thick bigoted mental wall will not allow you to appreciate, I will always err on the side of the alleged victim, particularly when the incident is plausible and other acts of discrimination and assault have occurred (second only to crimes against Jews in Canada, as has been mentioned earlier), until evidence is brought to the contrary. That's the humane position, and one I will happily embrace in contrast to your hateful, cynical and prejudiced perspectives on all things involving—in particular—Muslims. 

No go back into whatever hole you crawled out of. You are a distasteful creature.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I always assumed that strengthening and repairing the wall--as opposed to patching--was part of the project.


Assumptions. You know....  

The confusion is certainly understandable, and kudos to the journalists who challenged Trump's narrative. Too bad so many U.S. journalists just let politicians off the hook when they lie, rather than challenge their bull****. This is why so much of the good journalism on American politics is carried out by British reporters.


----------



## CubaMark

*How very Presidential....*



(@jessdweck, 29 March 2018)


----------



## FeXL

And you can kiss my hairy, unwashed ass.



CubaMark said:


> FeXL, you have my permission to go straight to Hell, do not pass Go.


You can support whomever you want. I could care less. However,
1) At least let the facts of the story come out before you begin castigating everyone on the planet as a racist, hateful sonuvabitch and, worse, start making $h!t up to support your narrative (precisely what you accuse others of us on theses boards of);
2) Maintain some consistency in your support of victims, ie., a particular crime against say, whites, garners the same reaction from you as a crime against, say, Muslims. Or vice-versa. Quit being a hypocrite. A crime is a crime, a victim of crime is a victim of crime, no matter skin colour, social status, creed, religion, geogerfy, whatever standard you want to apply. Get over your ideology and show true compassion!



CubaMark said:


> I will always err on the side of the alleged victim...blah, blah, blah...


Criticize me as you want. Like I care. I post links to articles whereby Muslims have been accused of or have actually committed crimes. There is no speculation, no what if's, buts or maybes.

If these articles bug you, wah frickin' wah.



CubaMark said:


> ...your hateful, cynical and prejudiced perspectives on all things involving—in particular—Muslims.


And you're a <spit>Prog. I guess we've all got our crosses to bear...



CubaMark said:


> You are a distasteful creature.


----------



## Macfury

These are too easy to create and apply to everyone.

Why did CM waste time posting a stupid meme instead of helping the poor? You get the picture.





CubaMark said:


> *How very Presidential....*
> 
> 
> 
> (@jessdweck, 29 March 2018)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Have a good Good Friday, everyone!


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Have a good Good Friday, everyone!


On that we can agree, Frank. :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Speaks for itself.

Nearly 100 MS-13 Gang Members Arrested in Sting Were Resettled Across U.S. as ‘Unaccompanied Minors’



> Nearly 100 recently arrested MS-13 gang members arrived in the United States by crossing through the U.S.-Mexico border as “unaccompanied minors” and then getting resettled throughout the country by the federal government.
> 
> About 475 gang members have been arrested by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency’s “Operation Matador” sting, with 99 of those gang members arrested having arrived in the U.S. as “unaccompanied minors.”
> 
> Of the 99 MS-13 gang members who entered the country as unaccompanied minors, 64 of them were granted Special Immigrant Juvenile Status (SIJ), which acts as a quasi-amnesty program for young illegal aliens who cross the southern border.


----------



## FeXL

So, CM, where's the hue & cry? Doesn't Muslim/Muslim violence rank high enough to set off your compassion alarm? Or (and far more likely), does your Prog ideology make you simply unable to muster any criticism whatsoever of the followers of Islam, no matter what the offence?

Texas teen was beaten, had hot cooking oil poured on her after refusing arranged marriage: police



> Parents of a Texas high school student who was reported missing in late January had abused their daughter after she refused an arranged marriage, leading her to run away from home until she was found in mid-March, police said.
> 
> Maarib Al Hishmawi, 16, was reported missing on Jan. 30 after she was last seen leaving Taft High School in Bexar County. She was located in mid-March when she was taken in by an organization that cared for her after she ran away, KSAT reported.
> 
> Authorities on Friday said Al Hishmawi’s parents — Abdulah Fahmi Al Hishmawi, 34, and Hamdiyah Saha Al Hishmawi, 33 — had allegedly beaten their daughter with a broomstick and poured hot cooking oil on her when she refused to marry a man in another city. The parents reportedly agreed to the arranged marriage in exchange for $20,000.


----------



## FeXL

So, America, how's that multiculturalism workin' out for ya?

Dead goats, chickens part of suspected 'animal sacrifice' ritual leading to arrests, police say



> Dead and dismembered goats, chickens and other animals were found in a San Antonio-area home Friday night after police responded to calls of a suspected animal sacrifice ritual, authorities said.
> 
> At least a dozen people were arrested and charged with animal cruelty, the San Antonio Express-News reported.


More:



> Authorities identified 11 of the suspects: Alexander Gene Campos, 23; Ivan Felipe Gonzalez, 24; Carmen Maria Gonzalez-Trujillo, 41; Cynthia Gabriell Martinez, 29; Liza Mercado, 46; Marie Galan Murcia, 65; Ramon Patino Jr., 65; Luiz Rodriguez Ortiz, 41; Robert Talamantez, 55; Irma Garza Talamantez, 64; and Arteaga Ariel Torres, 39.


See, CM? Not Muslim!


----------



## CubaMark

_What an embarrassment..._

*The Trump White House's Intern Program Is Once Again Very, Very White*












> America:
> •38% People of Color
> •31% White Women
> •31% White Men
> 
> White House Interns:
> •2% POC
> •25% WW
> •73% WM
> (twitter)​


(HuffPo)


----------



## FeXL

Yes. Yes, you are.



CubaMark said:


> What an embarrassment...


Can you quote me the precise piece of legislation that outlines hiring quotas for White House interns, please?

What's wrong with hiring the candidates who best answer the series of questions, rather than the best visible minority? Or skin color? Or head covering? Or whatever other stupid marker you Progs can dream up?

Perhaps you'd care to comment on Barry's interns (chock full of Ivy Leaguers), while you're at it? (here, here & here)



CubaMark said:


> The Trump White House's Intern Program Is Once Again Very, Very White


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yes. Yes, you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you quote me the precise piece of legislation that outlines hiring quotas for White House interns, please?
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with hiring the candidates who best answer the series of questions, rather than the best visible minority? Or skin color? Or head covering? Or whatever other stupid marker you Progs can dream up?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you'd care to comment on Barry's interns (chock full of Ivy Leaguers), while you're at it? (here, here & here)



Trump doesn't hire the best candidates. He hires the ones he think will be most loyal to him. Typical dictator behaviour.


----------



## FeXL

Did you read the first 'here' link? You don't even have to go there. Mouse over the link & read the headline. Speaking of dictators, FFS...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump doesn't hire the best candidates. He hires the ones he think will be most loyal to him. Typical dictator behaviour.


----------



## FeXL

Further to this BS.

Watching a lot of b-ball today, college & pro, women's & men's.

It strikes me that there is a hugely disproportionate amount of blacks in basketball, about 74%. I think we need to eliminate about 62% of them & replace them with white players, in order to correspond more fully with their actual ~12% population demographic...



FeXL said:


> Can you quote me the precise piece of legislation that outlines hiring quotas for White House interns, please?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump doesn't hire the best candidates. He hires the ones he think will be most loyal to him. Typical dictator behaviour.


Is that why Notley filled her ranks with people from Ontario? Not enough talent in Alberta?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Is that why Notley filled her ranks with people from Ontario? Not enough talent in Alberta?




Umm, wrong thread much?


----------



## Macfury

Proper analogy. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Umm, wrong thread much?


----------



## FeXL

macfury said:


> proper analogy.


<whoooooosh...>


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Recall those Pakistani born Dem aids who accessed congressional data?

44 Dems, Including Wasserman Schultz, Exempted Pakistani IT Aides From Background Checks



> Every one of the 44 House Democrats who hired Pakistan-born IT aides who later allegedly made “unauthorized access” to congressional data appears to have chosen to exempt them from background checks, according to congressional documents.
> 
> All of them appear to have waived background checks on Imran Awan and his family members, even though the family of server administrators could collectively read all the emails and files of 1 in 5 House Democrats, and despite background checks being recommended for such positions, according to an inspector general’s report. The House security policy requires offices to fill out a form attesting that they’ve initiated background checks, but it also includes a loophole allowing them to simply say that another member vouched for them.


And, further on the Charlie Foxtrot:

ObamaCare Is The Real Junk Insurance, And It's Killing People 



> Health Reform: We keep hearing about how short-term health plans are "junk insurance." Really? Compared to ObamaCare's high-deductible HMOs, or Medicaid's long and often deadly waits?
> 
> A new study finds that at least 21,900 people on Medicaid have died waiting for treatment in states that expanded Medicaid eligibility under ObamaCare.
> 
> The reason, the Foundation for Government Accountability report says, is that ObamaCare opened Medicaid up to millions of able-bodied non-poor adults. That created a surge in demand for scarce Medicaid resources, forcing the poor to wait longer for services.


California Commits Massive Medicaid Fraud



> California is indeed the Golden State where Medicaid is concerned. The HHS Office of Inspector General (OIG) has found that, by exploiting Obamacare’s expansion of the program, California has enrolled hundreds of thousands of ineligible adults in Medicaid. Consequently, the state has bilked the federal government out of more than $1 billion in funding to which the state was not entitled. Indeed, these figures probably understate the amount of money that California officials have fraudulently extracted from the taxpayers. The OIG sampled a mere six-month period, from October 1, 2014 through March 31, 2015, to arrive at its damning assessment.


Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!


----------



## Rps

You know I read this thread and some favour one side or one politician for another and people’s bias stand out. But down south I think there is a brewing issue which is the root at most of the U.S.’s problems.....lack of education funding. Today I see 3 more states have massive teacher walkouts. I read a paper a number of years ago based on Marx. It’s premise was that the private schools are well funded because the dominant class wants an educational system to support their dominance, while the oppressed were left with scraps which will meet the needs of the “common labourer. Following what has been happen in the U.S. with education makes me think that the author was right...the U.S. education system is a Marxist engine.

We all have our thoughts on education ....but a country which lags in education spending is doomed.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think funding is the problem down south. You have a severely underperforming unionized teacher class, combined with a culture that does not value learning and achievement--only an "A minus" grade.



Rps said:


> You know I read this thread and some favour one side or one politician for another and people’s bias stand out. But down south I think there is a brewing issue which is the root at most of the U.S.’s problems.....lack of education funding. Today I see 3 more states have massive teacher walkouts. I read a paper a number of years ago based on Marx. It’s premise was that the private schools are well funded because the dominant class wants an educational system to support their dominance, while the oppressed were left with scraps which will meet the needs of the “common labourer. Following what has been happen in the U.S. with education makes me think that the author was right...the U.S. education system is a Marxist engine.
> 
> We all have our thoughts on education ....but a country which lags in education spending is doomed.


----------



## FeXL

I'd take the "plight" of American teachers far more seriously if:

1) Many of them weren't forcing their kids out of school (with penalties for those who do not attend) to protest for gun control under the direction of Bloomberg's Everytown For Gun Safety, among others, and
2) They weren't members of the American Federation of Teachers, a lefty organization funded in part by George Soros.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I don't think funding is the problem down south. You have a severely underperforming unionized teacher class, combined with a culture that does not value learning and achievement--only an "A minus" grade.


Most certainly there is a culture which does not value education. I’m not so sure it’s the union....but underperforming.....I don’t think I can argue with that.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> Most certainly there is a culture which does not value education. I’m not so sure it’s the union....but underperforming.....I don’t think I can argue with that.


https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/public-spending-on-education.htm
(select % of GDP under the chart)

Overall, money is not the issue in the U.S., although this varies from state to state.

They spend about what we spend as a share of GDP on public education, plus their GDP per capita is higher.

Also, data on teacher salaries.
https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/teachers-salaries.htm#indicator-chart


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/public-spending-on-education.htm
> (select % of GDP under the chart)
> 
> Overall, money is not the issue in the U.S., although this varies from state to state.
> 
> They spend about what we spend as a share of GDP on public education, plus their GDP per capita is higher.
> 
> Also, data on teacher salaries.
> https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/teachers-salaries.htm#indicator-chart


Beej, the issue is the quality of teacher and the consistency of curriculum. We were in Georgia a couple of years ago and met a president of a state college. She didn’t know that Ottawa was the capital of Canada........within states, in their counties, the curricula varies widely....as does the funding . It’s not just there, however, we in Ontario have many boards with a variance of funding.


----------



## FeXL

Yep. One week they're eating Tide Pods & snorting condoms, the next week Progs think they're old enough to vote...

'Condom snorting' back as trending and dangerous social media challenge



> Condom snorting is the newest "challenge" and a dangerous online trend that's become popular among young people through social media.
> 
> Rival to the "Tide Pod Challenge," "condom snorting" is a dangerous practice that involves inhaling a rubber condom up one's nose so that it can then be fished out through the mouth. The whole thing is recorded and uploaded to YouTube or another social media outlet.


Darwinism at it's finest.


----------



## eMacMan

I know Jesse gets a lot of flak from both ends of the Lamestream. But he is independent, does speak his mind and in this case, the recycled red scare, hits the nail on the head.

His part of the interview lasts just under 12 minutes.

https://www.rt.com/shows/the-world-according-to-jesse/411705-john-kiriakou-threat-creation/


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Yep. One week they're eating Tide Pods & snorting condoms, the next week Progs think they're old enough to vote...


...and by GOD the Lord Jesus who Passes the Ammunition, they're also old enough to own a gun. XX)

...interestingly if you finish reading the story that you linked to, and scroll down the page another centimetre, you'll find this lovely bit of news... another mass shooting, this time at the California headquarters of YouTube.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> ...and by GOD the Lord Jesus who Passes the Ammunition, they're also old enough to own a gun. XX)
> 
> ...interestingly if you finish reading the story that you linked to, and scroll down the page another centimetre, you'll find this lovely bit of news... another mass shooting, this time at the California headquarters of YouTube.


CubaMark, wrong again! Including the shooter only 4 victims...you need 5 for a mass shooting in the States......thank G_d they didn’t have another one.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> CubaMark, wrong again! Including the shooter only 4 victims...you need 5 for a mass shooting in the States......thank G_d they didn’t have another one.


Zero dead victims, three wounded. One death, she killed herself. 

Given Youtubes rather high handed policies of trying to suppress non-lamestream views, you knew it would happen sooner or later. A bit surprised that it was a female vegan, but not completely surprised a female vegan would go bonkers.

https://www.seattlepi.com/business/...er-told-family-members-she-hated-12804101.php



> A website in that name decried YouTube's policies and said the company was trying to "suppress" content creators. She posted about veganism, animal cruelty along with glamor shots of herself and exercise videos.
> 
> 
> "Youtube filtered my channels to keep them from getting views!" one of the messages on the site said. "There is no equal growth opportunity on YOUTUBE or any other video sharing site, your channel will grow if they want to!!!!!"


----------



## Rps

eMacMan, I’m not sure whether someone was injured or killed matters. So maybe we should use the phrase “gun violence” rather than mass shooting. I guess there will be a spike in gun sales now.

Please forgive the editing of this headline, but I’m sure many would be shaking their heads over this.....in Michigan a Senate candidate actually said this.....

A Michigan candidate for US Senate has proposed arming homeless people with pump-action shotguns in an effort to reduce crime.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And? Not only that, but driver's licenses, too!

Just 'cause Progs aren't mature enough to own firearms under 21 doesn't means conservatives aren't.



CubaMark said:


> ...and by GOD the Lord Jesus who Passes the Ammunition, they're also old enough to own a gun.


Yes. Yes, there was another shooting stateside. By an Iranian, female, vegan, PETA fruit loop & whacko. There goes that white male with an AR narrative...

Speaking of AR's, I can't find a description of the weapon used anywhere. If it was an AR, even fired by an Iranian vegetarian Prog female, you can bet it'd be all over the news.

Not only that, but her father had warned police about her issues with Youtube. Once again, all the warning signs ignored.

And, interestingly enough (from the linked article), Youtube has security guards with "assault rifles"? Do the Progs know this? 



CubaMark said:


> ...interestingly if you finish reading the story that you linked to, and scroll down the page another centimetre, you'll find this lovely bit of news... another mass shooting, this time at the California headquarters of YouTube.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Just 'cause Progs aren't mature enough to own firearms under 21 doesn't means conservatives aren't.


What a sad life, living in a black & white world, with no colour, nor even shades of gray...



FeXL said:


> Speaking of AR's, I can't find a description of the weapon used anywhere.


Every story I've seen on the shooting —including the one you linked to— indicates a handgun. But I imagine you were frothing at the mouth and had your vision obscured in your haste to go off on a "Progs!" rant... 



FeXL said:


> And, interestingly enough (from the linked article), Youtube has security guards with "assault rifles"? Do the Progs know this?


....guards with assault rifles who apparently had nothing to do with ending the shooting - she did herself in. So much for the "a good guy with a gun" narrative...

XX)


----------



## FeXL

My life's great!

As a professional photographer, I've seen colours you could only dream of...

Seriously, though, you're all eating Tide pods & snorting condoms until you move out of your mother's basement at 35.



CubaMark said:


> What a sad life, living in a black & white world, with no colour, nor even shades of gray...


Frothing? Nope. Only Progs froth...



CubaMark said:


> But I imagine you were frothing at the mouth and had your vision obscured in your haste to go off on a "Progs!" rant...


Never said they did. If there had been someone at the doorway with a weapon, she wouldn't have even come in that far. 

Either way, win/win!

The reason I mention it is because Progs always go nuts when they hear about "Assaaaaauuuuult weeeeeeaaaaaaapoooooooons"...

Speaking of which, how's that proposal of yours re: "gun-free defensible structures" coming along? You gotten past the bucket of rocks stage, yet? Spit balls next? Jes' askin'...



CubaMark said:


> ....guards with assault rifles who apparently had nothing to do with ending the shooting - she did herself in. So much for the "a good guy with a gun" narrative...


----------



## FeXL

Good!

The Aftermath: Zuckerberg Abandoned By Peers, Mocked By Street Artists



> Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has found himself with few friends in Silicon Valley in the wake of the massive data harvesting scandal.
> 
> Tim Cook and Elon Musk are perhaps the highest profile tech leaders to criticize Facebook for playing fast and loose with user data - along with Salesforce.com CEO Marc Benioff and Whatspp founder Brian Acton, whose company Facebook bought for $22 billion.
> 
> Other tech leaders have remained quiet as the scandal has unfolded - which as Bloomberg notes, is unusual for Silicon Valley execs who traditionally circle the wagon when a peer is having a crisis.
> 
> _Facebook has sought to repair its public image and trust with more than 2 billion users after reports surfaced that Cambridge Analytica obtained data on as many 50 million of those U.S. accounts. As Zuckerberg, 33, faces calls to testify before Congress and lawmakers raise the idea of new regulations on tech, *his peers have either stayed quiet or publicly criticized his company. In times of crisis, tech companies have sometimes huddled together to defend the industry, such as when Apple fought the FBI to protect an encrypted iPhone and during President Donald Trump’s proposed immigration ban last year against mostly Muslim countries.*_


Links' bold.

Related:

Mark Zuckerberg admits Facebook scans the contents of ALL your private Messenger texts in the latest blow to the scandal hit firm



> Facebook scans the contents of messages that people send each other on its Messenger app blocking any that contravene its guidelines, it has emerged.
> 
> The scandal-hit firm, still reeling from revelations surrounding Cambridge Analytica, checks images and texts to ensure they are in line with its community standards.
> 
> While the intentions behind the practice may be well-meaning, the news is likely to add to users' concerns over what the social network knows about them.
> 
> It follows revelations that the Trump-affiliated consulting firm obtained data on at least 50 million unsuspecting Facebook users.
> 
> This information was used to target voters in the US, based on psychological profiling, with political adverts spreading disinformation.
> 
> Facebook is also facing criticism for collecting years of data on call and text histories from Android users.


If you haven't already, time to drop Assbook like 3rd grade French. Am I glad I never climbed on that bandwagon...


----------



## FeXL

BOMBSHELL: Secret TEXTS Show FBI, DOJ May Have RUSHED Anti-Trump FISA Warrant



> Communications uncovered by congressional investigators reveal the FBI may have improperly coordinated with Department of Justice officials in an effort to pressure those officials to expedite a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance warrant on a former volunteer with the President Trump’s campaign, congressional officials said.
> 
> Text messages obtained by investigators reveal that FBI Special Agent Peter Strzok and his colleague Lisa Page were discussing the FBI’s difficulty in obtaining the warrant to spy on Carter Page, who worked for a short stint with the Trump campaign. The FBI obtained its first warrant to spy on Page on Oct. 19, 2016, and there would be three subsequent renewals every 90 days for the warrant on Mr. Page.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Is Right. It Is the Amazon Washington Post.



> President Donald Trump’s insistence on calling the _Washington Post_ the “Amazon _Washington Post_” riles the newspaper’s executive editor, Martin Baron, to no end. He wants one and all to know that the online retailer and the newspaper are distinct corporate entities.
> 
> “There isn’t anybody here who is paid by Amazon,” Baron told the _New York Times_ on Monday. “Not one penny.”
> 
> Further distancing Amazon from the _Washington Post_, Baron said that the _Post_’s owner, Jeff Bezos, who founded Amazon, involves himself only in the paper’s business doings, not its news coverage. “He’s never suggested a story to anybody here, he’s never critiqued a story, he’s never suppressed a story,” Baron said.


:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, CM, have another article on that crazed female Muslim vegan who went postal with a handgun at Youtube.

Enjoying The Spectacle Of Narrative Collapse



> Speaking of neurotic, Western media presented her as white for as long as they could, choosing to use a doctored picture which portrayed her eyes as green and her skin as light (the sheriff, however, posted the real thing below):
> 
> You can see this false presentation — there are plenty of better pictures — on the Yahoo! version of the wire story (archive) carried by over twenty major outlets. *Your Communist media wants to keep grinding that narrative.*


M'bold.

Yes. Yes, they do...

More:



> Their narrative backfired in that whether because she imbibed Islamic doctrine or simply became hopelessly schizophrenic in the directionless West under Leftism, Nasim Ajafi Aghdam decided to end it all in a blaze of glory. Really, who cares what her motivation was? In a society gone crazy, she went crazy.
> 
> But the Leftists out there in their cubicles could not wait to start spinning the story. They know that most people see something once, form an opinion, and act on that opinion, so their goal is always to get the fake opinion out there first. Hence they reported the shooter as a white woman.
> 
> When that became obviously debunked, they increased the narrative spin by presenting this doctored picture — to make her black eyes light green and her brown skin white — in the same way they whitened OJ in the news back in the day. They wanted to advance a fake agenda by keeping consistent with the initial reports of a white woman.


Nails it.

Curious, though. Haven't heard a single call for more handgun controls. Wonder why. Doesn't match the narrative, perhaps?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Even this Republican strategist knows Trump is more of a liability than an asset, and his rule-by-tweet trade war could have dangerous impacts on the American economy, not to mention Canada's.



> Trump Has 'No Idea What He's Doing' With Trade War, Republican Strategist Warns
> 
> By Tim Marcin On 4/4/18 at 1:56 PM
> President Donald Trump is clueless when it comes to trade, a member of his own party warned on television Wednesday.
> 
> Republican strategist Steve Schmidt criticized Trump pretty bluntly on MSNBC amid the news that the stock market had tumbled after China reacted to the president's tariffs on the country with tariffs of its own.
> 
> "It’s patently obvious, when you watched the news conference yesterday, and you watched the president talking about the trilateral relationship with the Baltic Republics, he has no idea what he’s talking about," Schmidt said on MSNBC, via Mediaite. "It’s the musings of an imbecile. Really. No idea what he’s talking about at any level. We talk about trade, and consider his blowing up NAFTA. One trillion dollars of trade flows across the North American border between the United States and Canada. Most successful trade relationship in the history of the world."
> 
> Trump has threatened to pull out of NAFTA as administration officials work on an updated deal. Schmidt, who served as chief strategist on John McCain's presidential campaign, warned that Trump's actions could produce awful results for everyday Americans.
> 
> "You want to talk about crashing the market?" Schmidt said on-air, via Mediaite. "Abrogate the NAFTA agreement, disrupt a trillion dollars in trade that flows freely across the longest the largest, longest, undefended, peaceful border in the history of the world and let's see what happens. This is an incompetent president. Has no idea what he's doing. No idea what he's talking about. And the consequences of incompetent actions will be paid for by the American people and we're starting to see that now."
> 
> Trump defended his actions on trade on Twitter Wednesday. The former reality TV star claimed that the U.S. had long lost a trade war with China. "We are not in a trade war with China, that war was lost many years ago by the foolish, or incompetent, people who represented the U.S.," Trump tweeted. "Now we have a Trade Deficit of $500 Billion a year, with Intellectual Property Theft of another $300 Billion. We cannot let this continue!"


http://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-n...-trade-war-republican-strategist-warns-872312


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Even this Republican strategist knows Trumpnis more of a liability than an asset, and his rule-by-tweet trade war could have dangerous impacts on the American economy, not to mention Canada's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the DJ lately...it is recovering from the initial crash because, I think, the market realises that Trump won’t go ahead with his claims....remember if indeed they do go into effect it is in May....lots of time to settle and, again, all bluster and little substance.
Click to expand...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Freddie_Biff said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even this Republican strategist knows Trumpnis more of a liability than an asset, and his rule-by-tweet trade war could have dangerous impacts on the American economy, not to mention Canada's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the DJ lately...it is recovering from the initial crash because, I think, the market realises that Trump won’t go ahead with his claims....remember if indeed they do go into effect it is in May....lots of time to settle and, again, all bluster and little substance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could be a good inscription for Trump's tombstone: "All bluster and little substance."
Click to expand...


----------



## Macfury

So what's new? Republican "strategists" have been furious since Trump made a collective monkey out of their preferred presidential candidates. Judging by Trump's other successes, if the strategists are bleating, Trump is on the right track.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Even this Republican strategist knows Trump is more of a liability than an asset, and his rule-by-tweet trade war could have dangerous impacts on the American economy, not to mention Canada's.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Has 'No Idea What He's Doing' With Trade War, Republican Strategist Warns


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So what's new? Republican "strategists" have been furious since Trump made a collective monkey out of their preferred presidential candidates. Judging by Trump's other successes, if the strategists are bleating, Trump is on the right track.




Define "success" then. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## CubaMark

Well... that's an interesting statement from the Buffoon-in-Chief....

*Trump says he didn’t know about his lawyer’s $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels*
*Trump says he didn’t know why his lawyer, Michael Cohen, made the payment or where he got the money.*

So, what's the gist of this, then? Is he alleging that his attorney did this out of the kindness of his own heart, to protect Trump's image? And the money came from.....?

Popcorn time.....


----------



## Macfury

Success is passing most of your agenda in record time--and that agenda being something I largely support.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Define "success" then. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Well... that's an interesting statement from the Buffoon-in-Chief....
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump says he didn’t know about his lawyer’s $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels*
> 
> *Trump says he didn’t know why his lawyer, Michael Cohen, made the payment or where he got the money.*
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's the gist of this, then? Is he alleging that his attorney did this out of the kindness of his own heart, to protect Trump's image? And the money came from.....?
> 
> 
> 
> Popcorn time.....




If he wasn't aware of the payoff, which is central to the NDA, then there was no agreement. Trump is hooped, hoisted by his own petards—or by his own little orange cheeto, take your pick.


----------



## Macfury

Here you are imagining having sex with Trump again... not that there's anything wrong with that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> If he wasn't aware of the payoff, which is central to the NDA, then there was no agreement. Trump is hooped, hoisted by his own petards—or by his own little orange cheeto, take your pick.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Here you are imagining having sex with Trump again... not that there's anything wrong with that!



You are imagining having sex with Trump? Well, good luck with that, buddy.


----------



## FeXL

Post what you want. Feel free. Have at 'er.

That said, I'm just here to tell you that, aside from a few embittered Progs-in-denial who lost on 11/16, nobody cares about Trump & a porn star and a lousy $130K. It doesn't even make most people's GAF meter twitch. 

Jes' sayin'...



CubaMark said:


> Well... that's an interesting statement from the Buffoon-in-Chief....


----------



## FeXL

Interesting, but not surprising.

Oregon Governor Will Refuse To Send National Guard To Border With Mexico



> Governor Kate Brown (D) of Oregon has stated that she will refuse any request by President Trump to deploy National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexico border. She tweeted the announcement, “If @realDonaldTrump asks me to deploy Oregon Guard troops to the Mexico border, I’ll say no. As Commander of Oregon’s Guard, I’m deeply troubled by Trump’s plan to militarize our border.”


Related, and a bit surprising:

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock refuses to deploy guardsmen to border on Trump’s Twitter ‘whim’



> Bullock administration officials say the request for troops would have to come directly from the governor of a border state, and Montana had received no such requests as of Thursday.


I wonder if that's a legal thing or a moral thing or what? It sounds more like moral.

As an aside, it still slays me that one of the most freedom-loving states in the union is saddled with a Dem governor.


----------



## FeXL

Nancy Pelosi: When We Take Back The House, I PROMISE We'll Repeal Those Republican Tax Cuts



> As soon as Democrats retake the House in November, Democratic Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi told a town hall meeting Wednesday that the first priority is repealing and "replacing" the GOP tax cut package that passed last December.
> 
> Speaking to her constituents in Culver City, California, alongside Hollywood Congressman Ted Lieu, Pelosi pledged to discard the popular bill, which has prompted several major American companies to boost wages, share profits, and in some cases move their production operations back from overseas, because Republicans were so secretive in enacting the bill.


Well, hell, who wouldn't vote for them? Wait...that'd be the same type of special idiots who want Wynne back, wouldn't it?


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's Foreign Policy triumphs s'more.

Three Ways Obama Caused the Syrian Disaster



> Obama owns the disaster in Syria in a way that no one else does. Three of his policies intersected to cause the bloodshed, devastation and horrors there.
> 
> The Iraq Withdrawal
> The Arab Spring
> The Iran Deal
> 
> Obama’s Iraq withdrawal turned the country over to Iran and ISIS. The tensions between the Shiite puppet regime in Baghdad (which Obama insisted on backing) and the Sunni population created a cycle of violence that reduced the country to a bloody civil war between Shiite militias and Al Qaeda in Iraq.


More:



> The Russians and Iranians had played Obama. And they would go on playing him. But Obama wanted to be played. He wanted to save face by handing over his disaster to the Russians and Iran.
> 
> He wanted to implement regime change in the Middle East. But he didn’t want to get his hands dirty.


Excellent read. Comments germain.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Nancy Pelosi: When We Take Back The House, I PROMISE We'll Repeal Those Republican Tax Cuts
> 
> 
> Well, hell, who wouldn't vote for them? Wait...that'd be the same type of special idiots who want Wynne back, wouldn't it?


Something tells me that she won't repeal the retroactive to 1986 17% tax on unrealized corporate foreign capital gains. 

Americans living in Canada who wish to be self-employed have been forced to incorporate to avoid paying double shares of CCP and Social Security. This item intended to go after assets Apple and MS keep in foreign countries could destroy perhaps as many as 100,000 small Canadian businesses.


----------



## FeXL

Why am I not surprised he's a Democrat?

Male Colorado Democrat Has Penchant for Ladies’ Bathroom



> A Democratic state senator in Colorado, who is a man, "frequently" enters the women's bathroom, contradicting his claim that he only accidentally used the ladies room once.
> 
> A recording between the state senate secretary and the Colorado State Patrol, obtained through a records request by the conservative nonprofit Compass Colorado, revealed Sen. Daniel Kagan's visits made his female colleagues uncomfortable.
> 
> Last month, Sen. Beth Martinez Humenik filed a workplace sexual harassment complaint against Kagan for using the women's bathroom "multiple times."
> 
> "I confronted him in the bathroom itself and said, ‘What are you doing in here?'" Martinez Humenik told KUNC, a public radio station. "Then, as we were walking out, I said, ‘It's not OK for you to be here. I don't want to see you here again.'"


Related:


----------



## CubaMark

_An interesting week for the Buffoon-in-Chief...._

*Trump's homeland security adviser Tom Bossert resigns*

*Why FBI raid of Trump lawyer's office should leave president very worried, according to Fox News legal expert*

*Trump cancels Latin America trip to concentrate on Syrian chemical attack response
It is the first time a US president will not attend the Summit of the Americas​**Stormy Daniels: Porn star's lawyer says sketch to be released of man who threatened her over Trump affair*

*Michael Cohen raid: Donald Trump rages over search of his lawyer's office, describing it as a 'break-in'*

*Trump on track to lose Republicans' control over Senate and Congress, says leading pollster*


----------



## Macfury

Fidel Castro was known as El bufón--is this your way of honouring Trump?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Fidel Castro was known as El bufón--is this your way of honouring Trump?


You'll have to provide an authoritative source on that one - I've never seen Fidel referred to in that manner.

Interesting that this should be your response, rather than comment on the ongoing train wreck that is the U.S. Presidency....


----------



## Macfury

The presidency is not a train wreck--the establishment is doing everything it can to derail the presidency, but so far failing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The presidency is not a train wreck--the establishment is doing everything it can to derail the presidency, but so far failing.




The presidency is a train wreck. It is also a sinking ship, sinking into the very swamp it was supposed to drain.


----------



## FeXL

Well, seein' as yer lookin' for a response, let's go.

So what?



CubaMark said:


> Trump's homeland security adviser Tom Bossert resigns


I agree. This is nothing more than a Progressive witch hunt.



CubaMark said:


> Why FBI raid of Trump lawyer's office should leave president very worried, according to Fox News legal expert


POTUS can't be everywhere at the same time. It's a matter of priorities. FWIW, I have no issues with his choice.



CubaMark said:


> Trump cancels Latin America trip to concentrate on Syrian chemical attack response


No. Body. Cares.

If you had put 1/1000th the effort into posting about Bill's victims, you'd have a shred of credibility. You didn't. You don't.

Hell, Stormy's fortunate she hadn't been involved with Bill. She'd be another Arkancide statistic by now.



CubaMark said:


> Stormy Daniels: Porn star's lawyer says sketch to be released of man who threatened her over Trump affair


He should be pissed. See above.



CubaMark said:


> Michael Cohen raid: Donald Trump rages over search of his lawyer's office, describing it as a 'break-in'


Well, that's an interesting opinion. I wonder if these are the same pollsters who predicted Trump would lose in the first place...



CubaMark said:


> Trump on track to lose Republicans' control over Senate and Congress, says leading pollster


----------



## FeXL

How so? Be specific.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The presidency is a train wreck.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> How so? Be specific.


He doesn't like to see Obama's legacy so efficiently dismantled.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> How so? Be specific.



Watch five minutes of the news on something other than Fox News for a change. Everyday Trump's grip on reality slips a little more. Just look at the number of people he's hired and fired during his first 15 months as POTUS for example. Seems like he has no instincts for hiring the "best" people after all. And with the recent raid on Michael Cohen, 45 is absolutely losing it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He doesn't like to see Obama's legacy so efficiently dismantled.


He probably hates the tax reform, too, along with all the associated bonuses & raises to private enterprisers...


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> The presidency is not a train wreck--the establishment is doing everything it can to derail the presidency, but so far failing.


I do find it disturbing how easily he is manipulated. 

Latest example, Trump announces it is time for the US to get out of Syria. On cue Assad supposedly launches a chemical attack on his own people. Never mind that the reason the Russians and Syrians have taken so long to get rid of Al Queda, ISIS and the other US proxies, is that they are trying very hard not to kill civilians. Never mind that he would have to be an absolute idiot to do this just as the US is trying to get itself out. Never mind that the previous 3 chemical attacks occurred in similar circumstances and were ultimately proven to have been carried out by US proxies.

Unable to figure that out, suddenly Trump is wholeheartedly determined to wipe out what little remains of Syrian infrastructure.


----------



## FeXL

Thx for the content-free post & the complete absence of specifics.

I don't watch Fox. For that matter, I don't watch network news, period.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Watch five minutes of the news on something other than Fox News for a change.


Why? How? Again, be specific.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Everyday Trump's grip on reality slips a little more.


Trump is a business man. In the real world, you don't do your job, you get canned. No bonuses, no raises, no promotion to get you out of the way, no gold-plated pension plan. Gone.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just look at the number of people he's hired and fired during his first 15 months as POTUS for example.


You ever hire anybody, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Seems like he has no instincts for hiring the "best" people after all.


He should be losing it. Put yourself in his shoes. You'd be losing it, too.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And with the recent raid on Michael Cohen, 45 is absolutely losing it.


----------



## FeXL

Liberals Announce Plan to Crush Normal Americans in a New “Civil War”



> Tech titan Jack Dorsey of San Francisco-based social media platform Twitter applauded an article in something called Medium in which some other hipster CEO described how liberals intend to crush Normal Americans into serfdom in a bloodless “civil war.”
> 
> Here it is.
> 
> Ready?
> 
> It will just sort of happen. Why? Because. Americans will simply decide to be like California because of reasons and phew, no more troublesome conservatives and Gaia is saved!


More:



> Now, I know what you’re saying. You’re saying, “Why do a bunch of San Francisco dorks think that 150 million Americans with 300 million guns are just going to give up their rights and their say in their own governance and submit to the commands of people who eat kale by choice?” That’s a fair question, and they have an answer.
> 
> Because you just are.


<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Mueller Investigating Trump Over $150K Donation From Ukrainian Who Gave Clintons $13 Million



> The special counsel’s office is investigating a $150,000 donation a Ukrainian businessman made to President Donald Trump’s charity in 2015, according to a new report.
> 
> The donation, from steel magnate Victor Pinchuk, pales in comparison to contributions he gave to the charity Bill and Hillary Clinton set up. *The billionaire has contributed $13 million to the Clinton Foundation since 2006 and had access to Hillary Clinton while she served as secretary of state.*
> 
> But Special Counsel Robert Mueller is not investigating The Clintons. Instead, he is conducting a broad investigation of Donald Trump, including the flow of foreign money into various Trump-controlled entities.


M'bold.

_Not_ surprised...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> You ever hire anybody, Freddie?


Lots of hiring in the public sector. No firing. The spectre of Trump doing it makes them quake in their boots.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Thx for the content-free post & the complete absence of specifics.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't watch Fox. For that matter, I don't watch network news, period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? How? Again, be specific.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is a business man. In the real world, you don't do your job, you get canned. No bonuses, no raises, no promotion to get you out of the way, no gold-plated pension plan. Gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ever hire anybody, Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He should be losing it. Put yourself in his shoes. You'd be losing it, too.




Why should he be losing it? Does he have something to be ashamed of? You think maybe he really did have a fling with Stormy Daniels after all, even though he denies it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Lots of hiring in the public sector. No firing. The spectre of Trump doing it makes them quake in their boots.




Again you reveal how little you know about me or the world in general.


----------



## FeXL

You first.

Specifics on why Trump's presidency is a train wreck.

Specifics on why you think Trump's grip on reality is slipping.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why should he be losing it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> You first.
> 
> 
> 
> Specifics on why Trump's presidency is a train wreck.
> 
> 
> 
> Specifics on why you think Trump's grip on reality is slipping.




I've already answered that question. Your turn.


----------



## Macfury

Another content-free post brought to you by Freddie's of Edmonton! When you need the best in content free, don't ask a friend... call a professional at 1-800-GOT-NUTN!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Another content-free post brought to you by Freddie's of Edmonton! When you need the best in content free, don't ask a friend... call a professional at 1-800-GOT-NUTN!



FeXL must be so proud of you for copying his trademarks.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

.


----------



## FeXL

Neither nor.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I've already answered that question. Your turn.


----------



## FeXL

Americans Still Aren’t Moving to Canada 



> The search for high-status Americans running off to Canada has been an obsession of the press of both countries since Trump’s election, and a lack of tangible evidence has done little to temper writing on a phenomenon that many seem determined to will into existence. Such articles are easily identified by common characteristics, none of which are exactly testaments to journalistic excellence.


----------



## FeXL

Racist Facebook: Black Conservatives Diamond and Silk 'Unsafe'



> In the age before cable, there was an iconic sci-fi program called The Outer Limits whose opening featured a series of test patterns; flickering screens; and a narrator who solemnly intoned, "Do not attempt to adjust your television set. We will control all that you see and hear." Today, that is a chilling reality as social media giant Facebook censors what fans of social media icons Diamond and Silk, aka Lynette Hardaway and her sister Rochelle Richardson, see and hear from this dynamic pair of black conservative women on Facebook.


Diamond and Silk Call on Trump to Probe Social Media Giants



> The YouTube sensations known as Diamond and Silk, former Democrats who left the party to support President Donald Trump, called on the Trump administration to probe social media giants over allegations of singling out certain political viewpoints.
> 
> The outspoken pro-Trump duo made the call two days after they took to their Facebook page on Friday to say that they were informed by Facebook that the Internet giant deemed their content and videos to be “unsafe to the community.”


Related:

Oh: FaceBook is Collecting Data on People Who Never Even Signed Up for FaceBook

Nice...


----------



## SINC

Best question asked of Zuckerburg today at the inquiry: would you be comfortable sharing which hotel you stayed at last night?

He refused with a 'no'. Pretty much says it all.


----------



## CubaMark

_Further evidence that new National Security Advisor John Bolton is a Grade-A piece of ****e:_

*John Bolton reportedly threatened family of retired Brazilian diplomat in 2002*










Trump's cartoonishlyvhawkish national security adviser, John Bolton, "reportedly made a bewildering threat against a former Brazilian diplomat who was butting heads with the US on Iraq back in 2002," says Business Insider:

The retired Brazilian diplomat, Jose Bustani, who was then serving as the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), was trying to negotiate with Iraq and Libya to allow chemical weapons inspectors into their borders and to have them agree to destroy their chemical weapons, The New York Times reported in 2013.

But the US was reportedly not fond of Bustani's outreach to these countries, and Bolton, who was one of the primary architects of the Iraq War that began in 2003, himself visited Bustani to pressure him to step down from his post.

"We can't accept your management style," Bolton told Bustani in 2002, as Bustani recounted to The Intercept. "You have 24 hours to leave the organization, and if you don't comply with this decision by Washington, we have ways to retaliate against you," he reportedly continued. After a pause, Bolton reportedly said, "We know where your kids live. You have two sons in New York."​
Bolton is still proud of his Iraq War, which resulted in over 170,000 civilian and combatant deaths, and spread misery throughout the Middle East, turning it into a breeding ground for all manner of terrorist organizations. He seems to like war at a distance though, writing, "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy," as a way to explain why he enlisted in the Maryland Army National Guard to avoid being drafted during the Vietnam War, where almost 60,000 US soldiers, mainly young men, were killed.

(Business Insider / The Intercept / BoingBoing)​


----------



## Macfury

These are great no proof stories CM--keep 'em coming!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> These are great no proof stories CM--keep 'em coming!


Are you saying that José Bustani, then-Director-General of the OPCW, is lying about Bolton's threat?


----------



## Macfury

I'm saying that unless Bustani has some proof, then he's just another guy with a story.



CubaMark said:


> Are you saying that José Bustani, then-Director-General of the OPCW, is lying about Bolton's threat?


----------



## SINC

SINC said:


> Best question asked of Zuckerburg today at the inquiry: would you be comfortable sharing which hotel you stayed at last night?
> 
> He refused with a 'no'. Pretty much says it all.


Link to story here:

https://www.apnews.com/4143a1a8f23242a289cf1c13510bddfd


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I'm saying that unless Bustani has some proof, then he's just another guy with a story.


But...the RUSSKIES!!! :yikes:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I'm saying that unless Bustani has some proof, then he's just another guy with a story.


"just another guy with a story" — how easily dismissive you are of his character. One would think that someone in charge of a weapons inspection program is likely a bit more serious than "just another guy"...


----------



## FeXL

One would think that nearly half the US Congress & Senate, along with a plethora of other people in high places would be serious, as well. Still, no RUSSKIE connection with Trump.

'Sides, is that the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority? Sounds like it to me...



CubaMark said:


> One would think that someone in charge of a weapons inspection program is likely a bit more serious than "just another guy"...


----------



## FeXL

It's Official: Trump Tax Cuts Are Boosting Growth And Mostly Paying For Themselves



> When the Congressional Budget Office released its updated budget forecast, everyone focused on the deficit number. But buried in the report was the CBO's tacit admission that it vastly overestimated the cost of the Trump tax cuts, because it didn't account for the strong economic growth they would generate.
> 
> Among the many details in the report, the one reporters focused on was the CBO's forecast that the federal deficit would top $1 trillion in 2020, two years earlier than the CBO had previously said.
> 
> And, naturally, most news accounts blamed the tax cuts. "U.S. budget deficit to balloon on Republican tax cuts" is how Reuters put it in a headline.
> 
> But there's more to the story that the media overlooked.
> 
> First, the CBO revised its economic forecast sharply upward this year and next.
> 
> Last June, the CBO said GDP growth for 2018 would be just 2%. Now it figures growth will be 3.3% — a significant upward revision. It also boosted its forecast for 2019 from a meager 1.5% to a respectable 2.4%.
> 
> *"Underlying economic conditions have improved in some unexpected ways since June," the CBO says. Unexpected to the CBO, perhaps, but not to those of us who understood that Trump's tax cuts and deregulatory efforts would boosts growth.*


M'bold.

Sonuvagun. Tax cuts generate economic growth. Who knew?


----------



## Macfury

UN credentials confer no additional respect on anyone. They're a bunch of grifters.



CubaMark said:


> "just another guy with a story" — how easily dismissive you are of his character. One would think that someone in charge of a weapons inspection program is likely a bit more serious than "just another guy"...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From another forum on the same subject: 



Steve MB said:


> A window into what Republican politicians really think of the Dotard-in-Chief:





> A Congressman's Profanity Laced Tirade in a Safeway Grocery Store
> 
> One of the President's congressional defenders has privately decided he hates Trump and wants to unload.
> 
> "If we're going to lose because of him, we might as well impeach the motherf**ker," said the congressman as we roamed the aisles of a Safeway grocery store together. I haven't been in a Safeway since my family moved home from Dubai in 1990. The congressman did not want to be seen with me on Capitol Hill. He needed to get some stuff anyway and decided he'd let me walk with him through the cereal and dairy selections at the Safeway near my hotel. He is not happy with President Trump. He was never a die hard Trump supporter. He supported him in the general and never expected him to win. But he did. So the congressman, whose district Trump won, has been a regular supporter on Fox News and elsewhere defending the President. He is happy to be quoted, so long as I don't name him. He says he just needs to vent. I suggest what we're doing is one of the reason's Trump won -- a congressman says nice things in public and bad things in private.
> 
> "Everybody does this sh*t," he says. It's his turn. We have known each other for years and have been promising to connect this week while I'm passing through DC. So this is it. I'm passing along his comments, not endorsing them.
> 
> "I read you writing about this, about wanting to say nice things when you can and criticize when you need to. He may be an idiot, but he's still the President and leader of my party and he is capable of doing some things right," he says before conceding it's usually other people doing the right things in the President's name. "But dammit he's taking us all down with him. We are well and truly f**ked in November. Kevin [McCarthy] is already circling like a green fly circling sh*t trying to take Paul's [Ryan] job because nobody thinks he's sticking around for Nancy [Pelosi]. She's going to f**k up the cafeteria again too. [Lord's name in vain], at least I'll probably lose too and won't have to put up with that sh*t." He won't lose. His district is very Republican.
> 
> What's the problem, though? Well, get ready…
> 
> "It's like Forrest Gump won the presidency, but an evil, really f*cking stupid Forrest Gump. He can't help himself. He's just a f**king idiot who thinks he's winning when people are b*tching about him. He really does see the world as ratings and attention. I hate Forrest Gump. I listen to your podcast and heard you hate it too. What an overrated piece of sh*t movie. Can you believe it beat the Shawshank Redemption?"
> 
> We deviated to Stephen Speilberg for a moment and I had to remind him Robert Zemeckis, not Speilberg, directed it. Then I had to point out his taste in coffee sucks and suggested better. Moving right along…
> 
> "Judiciary is stacked with a bunch of people who can win re-election so long as they don't **** off Trump voters in the primary. But if we get to summer and most of the primaries are over, they just might pull the trigger if the President fires Mueller. The sh*t will hit the fan if that happens and I'd vote to impeach him myself. Most of us would, I think. Hell, all the Democrats would and you only need a majority in the House. If we're going to lose because of him, we might as well impeach the motherf**ker. Take him out with us and let Mike [Pence] take over. At least then we could sleep well at night," he said before going off on a tangent about how the situations with Russia and China scare him. Then, "You know having Mike as President would really **** off all the right people, too. They think they hate Trump. Mike is competent," at which point he sighs and laments that there were, in his mind, more than a dozen competent choices in 2016.
> 
> So the implication is they wouldn't vote for impeachment if they might be opposed in primaries, I asked. He confirmed he does not think the votes are there to impeach the President if any of the Judiciary Committee members are facing primary opponents. But get through that and, if Mueller is fired, he thinks so and thinks a majority of the House would vote to impeach President Trump.
> 
> "I say a lot of **** on TV defending him, even over this. But honestly, I wish the motherf*cker would just go away. We're going to lose the House, lose the Senate, and lose a bunch of states because of him. All his supporters will blame us for what we have or have not done, but he hasn't led. He wakes up in the morning, sh*ts all over Twitter, sh*ts all over us, sh*ts all over his staff, then hits golf balls. F*ck him. Of course, I can't say that in public or I'd get run out of town."
> 
> The congressman's base loves the President. And we're done. He feels better having let it all out. It was a funny conversation with a few additional remarks about the President's personal life I dare not print.
> 
> And yes, I agree, it is bad form to say all this in private while publicly praising the President. Welcome to Donald Trump's Washington. Everybody does this sh*t here.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And?

Think you won't find the same opinion from various underlings about their leaders the planet over? Think every MP in Canada is a fart-catcher for Juthdin? Have I got a prime chunk of waterfront real estate for you. Right in the middle of Louisiana...



Freddie_Biff said:


> From another forum on the same subject:


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> From another forum on the same subject:


I didn't catch the Congressman's name...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yeah. And?
> 
> 
> 
> Think you won't find the same opinion from various underlings about their leaders the planet over? Think every MP in Canada is a fart-catcher for Juthdin? Have I got a prime chunk of waterfront real estate for you. Right in the middle of Louisiana...




Your point being?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I didn't catch the Congressman's name...



Then apparently you didn't read the article either.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, you didn't even know that your own link didn't include the congressman's name--typical lazy-ass posting on your part!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Then apparently you didn't read the article either.


----------



## FeXL

Time to put on your big girl panties & figger it out for yourself, Freddie.

The answer's right there in front of you. Take notes. There's a quiz at the end of class.

And you _still_ haven't answered those two earlier questions.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point being?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, you didn't even know that your own link didn't include the congressman's name--typical lazy-ass posting on your part!




Wrong again. The congressman withheld his name on purpose. Read more closely. Pay attention to details.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Time to put on your big girl panties & figger it out for yourself, Freddie.
> 
> 
> 
> The answer's right there in front of you. Take notes. There's a quiz at the end of class.
> 
> 
> 
> And you _still_ haven't answered those two earlier questions.




God you're boring to talk to.


----------



## Macfury

The writer made it up, Freddie! No source, no story.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wrong again. The congressman withheld his name on purpose. Read more closely. Pay attention to details.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The writer made it up, Freddie! No source, no story.



You keep telling yourself that, mate. Confirmation bias is alive and well with you.


----------



## Macfury

I'll keep telling myself that there was no source in your link, mate!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep telling yourself that, mate. Confirmation bias is alive and well with you.


----------



## FeXL

Didn't think we were talking. 

And yet, _yet_, you still can't help yourself. You can't keep away. Your goto blog implodes from a chronic case of Progressive boredom & you come back here to ehMac for a breath of fresh, conservative air. Your desire, your _need_, to be accepted as one of the cool kids on the block forces you to engage. You can't help yourself. 

'Sides, that's what all the Progs say when they get their butts handed to them in an even argument. Or, when they are unable to answer the most basal of questions...



Freddie_Biff said:


> God you're boring to talk to.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL you know nothing about Freddie--he just wants a place where he can spout off unchallenged!


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep telling yourself that, mate. Confirmation bias is alive and well with you.


A bit late to this but MacFury is correct, no source no story. I have no doubt there are many Who would like to see Trump gone but without a source this is just National Enquirer fodder. While you may agree with its content if it can’t be verified it’s in the realm of fiction......or in the other words...Fox News.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> A bit late to this but MacFury is correct, no source no story. I have no doubt there are many Who would like to see Trump gone but without a source this is just National Enquirer fodder. While you may agree with its content if it can’t be verified it’s in the realm of fiction......or in the other words...Fox News.


This. Some folks just refuse to see the truth.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> A bit late to this but MacFury is correct, no source no story. I have no doubt there are many Who would like to see Trump gone but without a source this is just National Enquirer fodder. While you may agree with its content if it can’t be verified it’s in the realm of fiction......or in the other words...Fox News.




Maybe it can't be verified—yet—but it's a damn good quote that really hits the spot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> This. Some folks just refuse to see the truth.




The truth is that the Trump White House is coming apart at the seams. Apparently you can't see that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Didn't think we were talking.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, _yet_, you still can't help yourself. You can't keep away. Your goto blog implodes from a chronic case of Progressive boredom & you come back here to ehMac for a breath of fresh, conservative air. Your desire, your _need_, to be accepted as one of the cool kids on the block forces you to engage. You can't help yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sides, that's what all the Progs say when they get their butts handed to them in an even argument. Or, when they are unable to answer the most basal of questions...




So you consider yourself to be one of the cool kids on the block. That's interesting. Sometimes I feel sorry for you because you seem to be talking to yourself most of the time.


----------



## Macfury

There were some damned good quotes in movies too--but they're not reality.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe it can't be verified—yet—but it's a damn good quote that really hits the spot.


People like you are coming part at the seams... but the Trump White House keeps chugging along making America great!



Freddie_Biff said:


> The truth is that the Trump White House is coming apart at the seams. Apparently you can't see that.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> The truth is that the Trump White House is coming apart at the seams. Apparently you can't see that.


Nor do you have any solid evidence that the statement you made above is a hard fact from any reliable news source. 

It i just your opinion and nothing more.


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## eMacMan

Speaking of quotes here is a pretty good one from Mark Twain.

Beautifully reflective of the current American attempts to provoke Russia into WWIII. Wish I had noted the source:



> "Still, it is true, lamb," said Satan. "Look at you in war -- what mutton you are, and how ridiculous!"
> 
> "In war? How?"
> 
> "There has never been a just one, never an honorable one -- on the part of the instigator of the war. I can see a million years ahead, and this rule will never change in so many as half a dozen instances. The loud little handful -- as usual -- will shout for the war. The pulpit will -- warily and cautiously -- object -- at first; the great, big, dull bulk of the nation will rub its sleepy eyes and try to make out why there should be a war, and will say, earnestly and indignantly, "It is unjust and dishonorable, and there is no necessity for it." Then the handful will shout louder. A few fair men on the other side will argue and reason against the war with speech and pen, and at first will have a hearing and be applauded; but it will not last long; those others will outshout them, and presently the anti-war audiences will thin out and lose popularity. Before long you will see this curious thing: the speakers stoned from the platform, and free speech strangled by hordes of furious men who in their secret hearts are still at one with those stoned speakers -- as earlier -- but do not dare to say so. And now the whole nation -- pulpit and all -- will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open. Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."
> Mark Twain


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> Nor do you have any solid evidence that the statement you made above is a hard fact from any reliable news source.


Hmmmmmm, just wondering if empirical evidence would satisfy as a reliable source. A question for you, I know you lean towards Trump, but what would you say about the Notley government if it had as many changes, firings, scandal, manipulations, and....oh yes, suing hookers and bunnies.


----------



## SINC

Rps said:


> Hmmmmmm, just wondering if empirical evidence would satisfy as a reliable source. A question for you, I know you lean towards Trump, but what would you say about the Notley government if it had as many changes, firings, scandal, manipulations, and....oh yes, suing hookers and bunnies.


Actually I think Trump is a dumb ass. But better a dumb ass than a crook like Hillary. There was no choice for Americans who did not want another Obama clone. In the end, they may survive one term if they're lucky.

Trump was clearly the lesser of two evils.


----------



## Beej

SINC said:


> Trump was clearly the lesser of two evils.


As different as our politics are, this is close to my position. The lead choices were more flawed than usual, and even the libertarian protest option was terrible. Hopefully a turning point in U.S. politics leading to parties listening to voters more, and the media circus less.


----------



## FeXL

Doesn't matter. All I know is that you desperately want in.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So you consider yourself to be one of the cool kids on the block.


Unlike you, Freddie, I don't require contant reassurance from these boards that I'm doing a "good job". And, don't mistake silent, tacit agreement for solitude...



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's interesting. Sometimes I feel sorry for you because you seem to be talking to yourself most of the time.


----------



## Macfury

Perhaps Freddie confuses the repudiation of his content-free posts with popularity.



FeXL said:


> Unlike you, Freddie, I don't require constant reassurance from these boards that I'm doing a "good job". And, don't mistake silent, tacit agreement for solitude...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Perhaps Freddie confuses the repudiation of his content-free posts with popularity.


I seriously think that sometimes he posts stupid stuff just so somebody will respond to him. He craves attention like nobody I know...


----------



## FeXL

But at 16 they're ready to vote!

NEVER AGAIN? On Yom Hashoah, Poll Shows Two Thirds Of Millennials Don't Know What Auschwitz Was



> According to a new survey released on Thursday by the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, *fully 41 percent of Americans don’t know what Auschwitz was, including two-thirds of Millennials*. Approximately 22 percent of Millennials had not heard of the Holocaust, and 41 percent of Millennials thought 2 million or fewer Jews were murdered during the Holocaust.


Bold mine.

And, before someone starts screeching about the high percentage of Americans outside of Millenials who also don't know what Auschwitz was, most of them voted for Bill's Wife...


----------



## Macfury

On James Comey, I always wanted to know why he raised the alarm on re-opening the Hillary Clinton investigation close to election day. Turns out he did so because he wanted her upcoming and assured victory to be "untainted" by opening the investigation secretly. No political motive there... no siree.


----------



## CubaMark

*Do what I say, not what I do.*

*What an ass*.










*Related:*

U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack


----------



## Macfury

No agreement from me on this strike.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> No agreement from me on this strike.


Let's see, the previous claims of chemical weapons were either proven fake, or were proven to have been carried out by US proxies (ISIS, AlQueada or El Nosra). 

This one has not yet been investigated, but a number of inconsistencies in the images would suggest fakery. It happens just a day or so after Trump says the US is getting out of Syria. Clearly the warmongers do not want their gravy train derailed and will do whatever it takes to keep the slaughter rolling. Shame on Trump for being too dumb to figure it out and/or too cowardly to stand up to his Deep State masters.



CubaMark said:


> *Do what I say, not what I do.*
> 
> *What an ass*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:*
> 
> U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> On James Comey, I always wanted to know why he raised the alarm on re-opening the Hillary Clinton investigation close to election day. Turns out he did so because he wanted her upcoming and assured victory to be "untainted" by opening the investigation secretly. No political motive there... no siree.


It has been strange watching him destroy his own reputation. The leak, his melodramatic tweets, this latest claim (why say something so self-damaging?)...strange. He had already earned his place as a "respected elder civil servant" type, but he publicly converted to yet another media talking head over the course of two years. Is "CNN contributor" considered more of a life achievement than head of the FBI?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

*The Unconstitutional Strike on Syria*
*The Constitution still requires congressional authorization for an attack on another country. The requirement is not a formality.*

Trump did not have the authority to order any kind of strike on Syria. Congressional authorization was needed before any use of force against Syria; Friday’s attack was unconstitutional. And his pledge that the United States “is prepared to sustain this response until the Syrian regime stops its use of prohibited chemical agents”—that is, a unilateral declaration of long-range war aims and a pledge of long-term military involvement—is about as gross a violation of the Constitution as I can think of.

The fact that Trump ordered a one-off missile strike a year ago doesn’t change that calculation. The fact that almost no one in Congress spoke up when he did doesn’t change that calculation. The fact that foreign-policy commentators fawned on that decision doesn’t change that calculation. The Constitution still requires congressional authorization for an attack on another country. The requirement is not a formality. It is in the Constitution for a reason. Congress’s failure to assert its prerogatives is—even though it may have become a craven habit—a matter of life or death for a self-governing republic.

The reason, as I have written before, is that no president—not Barack Obama and not Donald Trump—has the authority under the Constitution to “declare war.”

(The Atlantic)​


----------



## CubaMark

I've stated previously that I don't give a flying **** whether Trump boinked a porn star... but if the allegations of his / his minions actions following that tryst are true, then it should be investigated and brought to light, especially if a threat of violence came along on top of the $130-grand payoff. That ain't "Presidential"...

*Is This Guy The Thug Who Threatened Stormy Daniels?
*










This morning Stormy Daniels' attorney Michael Avenatti released a sketch of the man Daniels says threatened her and her young daughter in 2011 when she was planning to go public with the story about her affair with Donald Trump.

* * *

...And here is a recent photo of Trump's Director of Security Surveillance (per LinkedIn profile), Matthew Calamari, Jr....

* * *

Before Calamari, Jr. was the Director of Security for Trump, his dad had that job. Here is a story about Matthew Calamari which should at least suggest the techniques his son may have learned.



> Donald Trump’s security guards once shoved, threatened, and held a 12-year-old boy and his mother against their will after her husband promised to go public with damaging allegations against the Trump Organization, according to the family’s account in FBI records and court filings.
> 
> The incident is one of several in which Trump surrogates have been accused of going to extreme lengths to protect him.
> 
> [...]
> 
> According to the lawsuit, four men prevented Hatixbe Bajrushi and her son from leaving. Matthew Calamari, the hulking head of security, shoved the boy. Trump’s brother-in-law, James Grau, barked questions, demanding to know why they were there. Michael Nicoll, another guard, pushed them back when they tried to leave. Grau snatched her purse and passed it to Calamari, Nicoll, and Domenic Pezzo to rifle through.
> 
> The boy started to cry and his mother fainted, they claim. Daut Bajrushi, informed by his wife in a phone call of what was happening, had a friend call the police.
> 
> Calamari threatened to harm the family if they spoke to police about what happened, according to the lawsuit. After 90 minutes, the police arrived and the Bajrushis were freed.


(C&L)


----------



## Macfury

Too easy to create such a sketch after the fact.


----------



## CubaMark

This is worth reading in its entirety:

*Judge finalizes $25 million settlement in Trump's fraud case* | MSNBC


----------



## SINC

Well, well, this might be very interesting!

*BREAKING: Lawmakers Make Criminal Referral on Clinton, Comey, Lynch to DOJ on Steele Dossier*



> Congressional lawmakers made a criminal referral Wednesday to the Department of Justice Attorney General Jeff Sessions against former senior-level Obama administration officials, including employees of the FBI connected with the unverified dossier alleging collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, as well as those involved in the warrants used to spy on a former Trump campaign volunteer, this reporter has learned. The lawmakers also made a criminal referral on former Attorney General Loretta Lynch and threats made by her DOJ against the FBI informant, who provided the bureau with information on the Russian nuclear industry and the approval in 2010 to sell roughly 20 percent of American uranium mining assets to Russia.
> 
> “The lawmakers noted that Comey “engaged in questionable conduct vis-à-vis President Donald Trump…”
> 
> House Oversight and Government Reform Committee member Rep. Ron DeSantis, R-Florida, along with nine other colleagues sent the letter Wednesday to Sessions and FBI Director Christopher Wray criminally referring former FBI Director James Comey, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, and former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for their involvement in the investigations into President Trump and alleged violations of federal law. FBI Special Agent Peter Strzok and his paramour FBI lawyer Lisa Page, whose anti-Trump text messages obtained by the DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz, were also included in the referral.
> 
> “We write to refer the following individuals for investigation of potential violation(s) of federal statutes,” states the letter obtained by this reporter. “In doing so, we are especially mindful of the dissimilar degrees of zealousness that has marked the investigations into Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the presidential campaign of Donald Trump, respectively. Because we believe that those in positions of high authority should be treated the same as every other American, we want to be sure that the potential violations of law outlined below are vetted appropriately.”


More at the link:

https://saraacarter.com/breaking-la...clinton-comey-lynch-to-doj-on-steele-dossier/


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> I've stated previously that I don't give a flying **** whether Trump boinked a porn star... but if the allegations of his / his minions actions following that tryst are true, then it should be investigated and brought to light, especially if a threat of violence came along on top of the $130-grand payoff. That ain't "Presidential"...
> 
> *Is This Guy The Thug Who Threatened Stormy Daniels?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This morning Stormy Daniels' attorney Michael Avenatti released a sketch of the man Daniels says threatened her and her young daughter in 2011 when she was planning to go public with the story about her affair with Donald Trump.
> 
> * * *
> 
> ...And here is a recent photo of Trump's Director of Security Surveillance (per LinkedIn profile), Matthew Calamari, Jr....
> 
> * * *
> 
> Before Calamari, Jr. was the Director of Security for Trump, his dad had that job. Here is a story about Matthew Calamari which should at least suggest the techniques his son may have learned.
> 
> 
> 
> (C&L)



I heard on some talk radio that the sketch also looked a lot like Stormy Daniels ex husband as well.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> I heard on some talk radio that the sketch also looked a lot like Stormy Daniels ex husband as well.


You'd think she'd have recognized the guy if it were her ex-husband, no?


----------



## CubaMark

_And as usual, we loony left naysayers who called the entire situation bogus, may well be correct again. We were right about Iraq (both times), there were no babies ripped from incubators by evil Iraqi soldiers, and there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction, and it's looking like the latest strike on Syria had nothing to do with any actionable intelligence, just distraction for the Orange Buffoon's ongoing scandals.... sigh...._

*Now Mattis Admits There Was No Evidence Assad Used Poison Gas on His People: Opinion*

Lost in the hyper-politicized hullabaloo surrounding the Nunes Memorandum and the Steele Dossier was the striking statement by Secretary of Defense James Mattis that the U.S. has “no evidence” that the Syrian government used the banned nerve agent Sarin against its own people.

This assertion flies in the face of the White House (NSC) Memorandum which was rapidly produced and declassified to justify an American Tomahawk missile strike against the Shayrat airbase in Syria.

Mattis offered no temporal qualifications, which means that both the 2017 event in Khan Sheikhoun and the 2013 tragedy in Ghouta are unsolved cases in the eyes of the Defense Department and Defense Intelligence Agency.

Mattis went on to acknowledge that “aid groups and others” had provided evidence and reports but stopped short of naming President Assad as the culprit.

Serious, experienced chemical weapons experts and investigators such as Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Gareth Porter and Theodore Postol have all cast doubt on “official” American narratives regarding President Assad employing Sarin.

These analysts have all focused on the technical aspects of the two attacks and found them not to be consistent with the use of nation-state quality Sarin munitions.

(Newsweek)​


----------



## FeXL

I don't care but, _BUT_, if there's any way I can make $h!t stick to Trump, I'm a gonna throw it...

And seriously? Crooks & Liars?



CubaMark said:


> I've stated previously that I don't give a flying **** whether Trump boinked a porn star


----------



## FeXL

I wouldn't crow too loud. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often...



CubaMark said:


> And as usual, we loony left naysayers who called the entire situation bogus, may well be correct again.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You'd think she'd have recognized the guy if it were her ex-husband, no?


Hmmm...


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> _And as usual, we loony left naysayers who called the entire situation bogus..._


_

You've got to be joking. There were more people on the right saying this than ever before. It's the US left that seems to be hellbent on war with Russia and Syria. (And by left, I don't mean Communist.)_


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You've got to be joking. There were more people on the right saying this than ever before. It's the US left that seems to be hellbent on war with Russia and Syria. (And by left, I don't mean Communist.)


From what I've seen, the Trump-leaning right is against this, and usually cites the deep state as the problem, while the Sanders-leaning left goes with wag the dog. They're both skeptical and rightly so, in my opinion.

Trump-Sanders 2020!

*Note the posted articles refer to February news and the previous Syria bombing (2017), but I think the same applies today.


----------



## eMacMan

Had you dared to wander away from the Lamestream you would already have known this. All of the medical staff pictured in the latest social media video, have flat out denied there was any chemical attack. They claim instead that the MI5 sponsored White Helmets staged the entire thing by coming in and shouting chemical attack, then video recording the resultant panic.

This explanation makes far more sense as the Syrian army was about to regain control of Douma and most of the CIA sponsored el Nosra terrorists had already fled. Trump had announced he was pulling out. How could anyone be so dumb as to believe that Assad would deliberately kill his own people in that manner, and in those circumstances???

And yes the alt right was on this from day one. OTOH The Clinton New Network is still trying to peddle the bogus narrative, which suckered Trump back into the quagmire. Sadly the man is either very dim or very afraid of the puppet masters.




CubaMark said:


> _And as usual, we loony left naysayers who called the entire situation bogus, may well be correct again. We were right about Iraq (both times), there were no babies ripped from incubators by evil Iraqi soldiers, and there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction, and it's looking like the latest strike on Syria had nothing to do with any actionable intelligence, just distraction for the Orange Buffoon's ongoing scandals.... sigh...._
> 
> *Now Mattis Admits There Was No Evidence Assad Used Poison Gas on His People: Opinion*Lost in the hyper-politicized hullabaloo surrounding the Nunes Memorandum and the Steele Dossier was the striking statement by Secretary of Defense James Mattis that the U.S. has “no evidence” that the Syrian government used the banned nerve agent Sarin against its own people.
> 
> This assertion flies in the face of the White House (NSC) Memorandum which was rapidly produced and declassified to justify an American Tomahawk missile strike against the Shayrat airbase in Syria.
> 
> Mattis offered no temporal qualifications, which means that both the 2017 event in Khan Sheikhoun and the 2013 tragedy in Ghouta are unsolved cases in the eyes of the Defense Department and Defense Intelligence Agency.
> 
> Mattis went on to acknowledge that “aid groups and others” had provided evidence and reports but stopped short of naming President Assad as the culprit.
> 
> Serious, experienced chemical weapons experts and investigators such as Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Gareth Porter and Theodore Postol have all cast doubt on “official” American narratives regarding President Assad employing Sarin.
> 
> These analysts have all focused on the technical aspects of the two attacks and found them not to be consistent with the use of nation-state quality Sarin munitions.
> 
> (Newsweek)​


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

Facebook faces billion-dollar lawsuit over facial recognition tags



> Facebook could owe billions of dollars for using facial recognition after a judge approved a pending lawsuit against the social network.
> 
> California judge James Donato ruled on Monday that the lawsuit, first filed in 2015, will finally proceed as a class-action case. It alleges Facebook is in violation of an Illinois state law that prohibits the collection of biometric data without written consent.
> 
> Three plaintiffs are seeking $5,000 in penalties per offense for every time Facebook used facial recognition on a user in Illinois without their explicit permission. There is a chance Facebook could owe millions of people as the case includes users in the state who the social network created and stored facial recognition algorithms for after June 7, 2011, when the “tag suggestions” tool launched. Judge Donato put the extent of the damages into perspective, “Facebook seems to believe statutory damages could amount to billions of dollars.”


----------



## FeXL

Realization dawns?

REVOLT GROWS: Half Of California Supports Travel Ban, Increased Deportations



> A new report released on Wednesday revealed that approximately half of California's population supports President Donald Trump's travel ban and increasing the number of deportations carried out by federal immigration authorities.
> 
> The survey, conducted by left-leaning UC Berkeley’s Haas Institute for a Fair and Inclusive Society, found that support for the Trump administration's agenda was strong even in the state's most far-left areas. The Daily Democrat reports:
> 
> _About 24 percent of the survey’s participants said it’s “very important” for the U.S. to increase deportations of undocumented immigrants, while 35 percent said it’s “somewhat important,” according to the poll. That viewpoint even held true in the Bay Area, where 25 percent of those surveyed said increasing deportations is very important and 35 percent said it’s somewhat important.
> 
> And about 49 percent of Californians support temporarily banning people from Muslim-majority countries, according to the poll. In the Bay Area, 44 percent of residents support the ban, the least out of any region in California._​


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Realization dawns?
> 
> REVOLT GROWS: Half Of California Supports Travel Ban, Increased Deportations


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJcfhxMkrQ[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

California declares state of emergency over massive population growth of illegal aliens. (The jokes just write themselves here)


----------



## Macfury

Damn! American businesses would have to pay people competitive wages to get them to do their dirty work!



CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJcfhxMkrQ


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Damn! American businesses would have to pay people competitive wages to get them to do their dirty work!


That's racist!!!


----------



## Rps

I’ve been hearing from south of the border that there is a self-preservation movement by the GOP to try and get Mr. T. Impeached during the summer. Those seeking re-election in November can then say they were against him. Anyone else heard this vibe?


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I’ve been hearing from south of the border that there is a self-preservation movement by the GOP to try and get Mr. T. Impeached during the summer. Those seeking re-election in November can then say they were against him. Anyone else heard this vibe?


No. Just claptrap from the usual RINO swamp dwellers who have prayed for this all along.


----------



## Rps

We will have to see. Personally, while I think he is incompetent as a leader, I do t see that he has done anything that is impeachable as yet. We’ve had some incompetent presidents before and they weren’t impeached....but this kind of makes sense. The issue is the U.S. is soooooo divided now that that would cause another civil war I think.


----------



## Macfury

I am amazed at how much Trump has achieved given this much opposition from Dem and Republican swamp dwellers. And no, I don't believe he has done anything that warrants being driven out of office.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Wouldn't Trump himself be the number one RINO?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I am amazed at how much Trump has achieved given this much opposition from Dem and Republican swamp dwellers. And no, I don't believe he has done anything that warrants being driven out of office.



What has he achieved? Seriously?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> I am amazed at how much Trump has achieved given this much opposition from Dem and Republican swamp dwellers. And no, I don't believe he has done anything that warrants being driven out of office.


I think you give him more credit than he deserves. I think he has done very little. He takes a lot of credit for the work of others.....much of which was effected by prior administrations or other legislative and economic actors and factors. His abiility to express u founded beliefs as facts is truly amazing....and from a diplomatic sense, uneasy.


----------



## Macfury

I don't see any great decisions from the disastrous eight years of Obama bearing fruit now. I wake up every day grateful that Clinton wasn't given the chance to continue Barry's warped vision for a diminished America.

But let's hear your side of it.



Rps said:


> I think you give him more credit than he deserves. I think he has done very little. He takes a lot of credit for the work of others.....much of which was effected by prior administrations.


----------



## Rps

Well on the topic of topics...

1. NAFTA worst trade deal ever....not true GNP has soared since NAFTA.
2 Iraq, we are leaving Iraq.....now we aren’t
3. Russian sanctions....we will increase sanctions...now we aren’t.
4.FBI broke into his lawyer’s office.....they had a warrant.
5.Trade deficits....he was contradicted by his own Trade Department.
6. Openly admitted he knew nothing of the deficits.
7. Rotation of key staff...kiss of death is him saying you will be great.
8. Claim that actual unemployment rate is not 4% but more like 42%.....probably closer to 15%
9. Number of GOP key members not seeking re-election.
Could go on but this should be enough to highlight my opinion of him.


----------



## Macfury

1. NAFTA worst trade deal ever....not true GNP has soared since NAFTA.

Negotiating point to improve American deal.

2 Iraq, we are leaving Iraq.....now we aren’t

He said the US should have done so in 2008. 

3. Russian sanctions....we will increase sanctions...now we aren’t.

He has imposed some Russian sanctions.

4.FBI broke into his lawyer’s office.....they had a warrant.

How is this Trump's fault?

5.Trade deficits....he was contradicted by his own Trade Department.

Trade deficits can be calculated in several ways. Both are correct.

6. Openly admitted he knew nothing of the deficits.

He said he made up a figure for Canada as part of a negotiating ploy.

7. Rotation of key staff...kiss of death is him saying you will be great.

I have only seen this as a good thing. Swamp alliances being broken.

8. Claim that actual unemployment rate is not 4% but more like 42%.....probably closer to 15%

Labour participation rate was close to that (60% when he said so in 2016). 

9. Number of GOP key members not seeking re-election.

They are not amphibians. The swamp is being drained. I'm relieved to see characters like Corker leave.Sorry to see Trey Gowdy go.



Rps said:


> Well on the topic of topics...
> 
> 1. NAFTA worst trade deal ever....not true GNP has soared since NAFTA.
> 2 Iraq, we are leaving Iraq.....now we aren’t
> 3. Russian sanctions....we will increase sanctions...now we aren’t.
> 4.FBI broke into his lawyer’s office.....they had a warrant.
> 5.Trade deficits....he was contradicted by his own Trade Department.
> 6. Openly admitted he knew nothing of the deficits.
> 7. Rotation of key staff...kiss of death is him saying you will be great.
> 8. Claim that actual unemployment rate is not 4% but more like 42%.....probably closer to 15%
> 9. Number of GOP key members not seeking re-election.
> Could go on but this should be enough to highlight my opinion of him.


----------



## Rps

Oh! I almost forgot, a recent $25 Million settlement in the Trump University fraud case.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Oh! I almost forgot, a recent $25 Million settlement in the Trump University fraud case.


I would rather see a president lose a business lawsuit than pay 100s of millions of dollars to appease Iran.


----------



## FeXL

Seriously, Freddie, I honestly don't know if you are truly this wilfully uninformed or just that stupid.

Either way, here are two "look here" terms where you can conduct your own homework:

1. "Trump tax reform" and
2. "Trump eliminates 2 regulations for every new regulation". 

Use DuckDuckGo so as to avoid the lefty bias of Gaggle.

And that's just a start. You will find many jumping off points from there.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What has he achieved? Seriously?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I would rather see a president lose a business lawsuit than pay 100s of millions of dollars to appease Iran.


Or a prime minister lose a lawsuit rather than voluntarily paying a self-confessed terrorist $10.5 million...


----------



## Rps

FeXL I wouldn’t start cheering on his tax reform just yet....it takes a good three to five years to determine if there is actually a benefit. So I’m holding judgement on it. Remember Reagan’s VooDoo economics.....the trickle down didn’t. So I’m not judging him on it as yet...give it time before you start cheering. As for dumping two for everyone....that also needs time. However I do agree there are some regulations that might not be as useful and should go....it’s just logical that not every law or regulation on the books is required today. But I caution, rules that were in place to protect shouldn’t be dumped just because.... remember what happened when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed........


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Or a prime minister lose a lawsuit rather than voluntarily paying a self-confessed terrorist $10.5 million...


SCOC is another issue, but I think almost all Canadians would agree with you here.....and if that wasn’t enough we might have another payout on the horizon.....I know this is in the wrong thread and I don’t wish to comment further here...but we are becoming a laughing stock internationally.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> FeXL I wouldn’t start cheering on his tax reform just yet....it takes a good three to five years to determine if there is actually a benefit. So I’m holding judgement on it. Remember Reagan’s VooDoo economics.....the trickle down didn’t. So I’m not judging him on it as yet...give it time before you start cheering. As for dumping two for everyone....that also needs time. However I do agree there are some regulations that might not be as useful and should go....it’s just logical that not every law or regulation on the books is required today. But I caution, rules that were in place to protect shouldn’t be dumped just because.... remember what happened when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed........




Good points. Is it wilfully stupid to start cheering the tax cuts too soon? Now there's a jumping off point for further discussion LOL.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good points. Is it wilfully stupid to start cheering the tax cuts too soon? Now there's a jumping off point for further discussion LOL.


You mean like it's identical when people cheer the tax burden Notley and her crew of misfits have imposed on Albertans as well as crippling us with debt? Now there's a jumping off point for further discussion as well. LOL.


----------



## eMacMan

Before shouting Sieg Heil and giving the Nazi salute to the supposed tax reform one should look into the Sec 965 transition tax. Intended to get at huge foreign bank accounts of firms such as Apple, this section could also be a dagger to the heart of Americans living abroad who own their own business. An American living in Canada and running his own business almost has to incorporate, otherwise he pays double shares of both CPP and Social Security on the income he realizes from that business. That leaves him facing this quagmire.



> IR-2017-212, Dec. 29, 2017
> WASHINGTON -- The Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service today issued Notice 2018-07, which provides guidance for computing the “transition tax” under recent tax legislation enacted on Dec. 22, 2017.
> 
> In general, newly enacted section 965 of the Internal Revenue Code imposes a transition tax on untaxed foreign earnings of foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies by deeming those earnings to be repatriated. *[Does not mention these are being dated back to 1986] *Foreign earnings held in the form of cash and cash equivalents are taxed at a 15.5 percent rate, and the remaining earnings are taxed at an 8 percent rate. The transition tax generally may be paid in installments over an eight-year period.
> 
> Notice 2018-07 describes regulations that the Treasury Department and the IRS intend to issue, including rules for determining the amount of cash and cash equivalents for purposes of applying the 15.5 percent rate and rules for determining the amount of foreign earnings subject to the transition tax. These rules will assist taxpayers by providing certain additional information needed for computing their transition tax.
> 
> Notice 2018-07 requests comments on the rules described in the notice and also requests comments on what additional guidance should be issued to assist taxpayers in computing the transition tax. The Treasury Department and the IRS expect to issue additional guidance in the future.
> 
> Notice 2018-07 will be published in IRB 2018-04 on Jan. 22, 2018. The Treasury media contact for this matter is Marisol Garibay, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, 202-622-6490.


https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-issues-guidance-on-transition-tax-on-foreign-earnings

Members of both houses of ill-repute have been made aware of this problem and done nothing to fix it. This is an incredibly complex subject. If you think it might impact you personally you need to check out John Richardson's articles here:
Part 9: Responding to the Sec. 965 â€œtransition taxâ€�: From the “Pax Americana” to the “Tax Americana” | Citizenship Counselling For U.S. Citizens in Canada and Abroad



> A recent and most important example of the “Tax Americana” is the “transition tax” : A U.S. resident who has undistributed earnings in a U.S. corporation will NOT be subjected to the “transition tax”. *A Canadian resident who has undistributed earnings in a Canadian corporation will be subjected to the “transition tax”!*
> 
> *The United States has a separate and more punitive tax and reporting regime which it imposes on those “non-residents” of the United States which it deems to be U.S. citizens or permanent residents!*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> You mean like it's identical when people cheer the tax burden Notley and her crew of misfits have imposed on Albertans as well as crippling us with debt? Now there's a jumping off point for further discussion as well. LOL.




Wrong thread much?


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL I wouldn’t start cheering on his tax reform just yet...


The hue & the cry from the left when the tax reforms were announced was that all the greedy corporations would take the tax money saved & just put it back in their own pockets. I don't know how many businesses have announced raises & one-time bonuses because of the tax reforms but my understanding is there are already dozens, if not hundreds, of companies who have made said announcements, affecting hundreds of thousands of employees & totalling untold billions of dollars

That alone blows another lefty narrative outta the water. Oh, I'm cheerin'.

Everything else is gravy.



Rps said:


> As for dumping two for everyone....that also needs time...


How is eliminating red tape, reducing bureaucratic bloat and saving taxpayers billions of dollars even a question? 

Plus, the ratio has been closer to 22:1.

And, Freddie, as always, you still haven't contributed anything meaningful to this particular conversation. Parroting others from the safety of the cheap seats is just your SOP, idn't it...

And, lets' not forget the biggest bonus, Bill's Wife will _never_ be POTUS.


----------



## FeXL

The Donald says, "Bring it!!!"

DNC on Verge of a Nervous Breakdown with Russia Lawsuit



> At last—after what feels like decades—we have some _transparency_ in the Russia matter!
> 
> No, I'm not talking about how the DOJ finally, after another seeming eternity, coughed up the Comey memos—although the vacuous and contradictory contents of the oddball former director's jottings might have something to do with it.
> 
> I am referring to the astonishing revelation that the Democratic National Committee (aka the DNC) is filing a lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign, and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 election.
> 
> The _transparency_ here is the DNC approaching a nervous breakdown. They're seeing things and are in panic mode. What could be more transparent than that?


Trump calls lawsuit by ‘obstructionist’ Dems ‘good news’ … they don’t even realize what they just did



> President Donald Trump fired back at “Obstructionist Democrats” over their alleged conspiracy lawsuit declaring it could actually be “good news” for the GOP.
> 
> _Just heard the Campaign was sued by the Obstructionist Democrats. This can be good news in that we will now counter for the DNC Server that they refused to give to the FBI, the Debbie Wasserman Schultz Servers and Documents held by the Pakistani mystery man and Clinton Emails.
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 20, 2018_​


----------



## Rps

FeXL, again it’s too early and your reply relies on speculation and hearsay. Give it a few years to see if their economy can survive the extra trillion dollars in assumed debt. On the horizon is a mega issue with the seepage and even loss of many pension funds....which means a loss of pension in about 20 years for millions of Americans..... I know 20 years is a long way off but the current actions plant seeds for future issues and this would be an unintended ( we hope ) consequence. So let’s have this discussion 10 years from now when the issue begins to bubble.

As for red tape, I gave you a classic example...rescinded by a Democrat I might add, that caused and is still causing significant issues in the equity market.....remember ABCPs, they still exist in another form but there will be another financial collapse in about 3 years. And the Donald, like Bush either is oblivious or doesn’t care. As I have always said, government rules and regulations invariably hurt those they were designed to protect.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> FeXL, again it’s too early and your reply relies on speculation and hearsay.


No, it's not too early & no, my reply is based on articles I've read & posted on this thread (with real numbers, not estimates) outlining the immediate success of the tax reform.

There are two effects to any tax cut or tax increase: short term & long term.

The short term effect of Trump's tax reform has not only been highly successful in putting extra cash immediately into the hands of many wage earners, it has shown that the Prog narrative of "greedy corporations" is a crock.

That's step one: the short term.

Now, time will tell if step two, the long term effect, will bring as much success. I don't know the answer for sure but in another recent article I read on the topic the shortfall in revenue between tax cuts & expected tax revenues wasn't (relatively speaking) that large. I expect them to be within a few percent (ie., <10) of a wash.


----------



## Macfury

Reagan's economic policies resulted in robust growth for years--what part of that did you object to? Only the jealous Bush I referred to it a "voodoo economics." 



Rps said:


> FeXL I wouldn’t start cheering on his tax reform just yet....it takes a good three to five years to determine if there is actually a benefit. So I’m holding judgement on it. Remember Reagan’s VooDoo economics.....the trickle down didn’t. So I’m not judging him on it as yet...give it time before you start cheering. As for dumping two for everyone....that also needs time. However I do agree there are some regulations that might not be as useful and should go....it’s just logical that not every law or regulation on the books is required today. But I caution, rules that were in place to protect shouldn’t be dumped just because.... remember what happened when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed........


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Wrong thread much?


Right thread--just painful to your ears.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Reagan's economic policies resulted in robust growth for years--what part of that did you object to? Only the jealous Bush I referred to it a "voodoo economics."


MacFury, you and I have ideological differences, and I respect that....same with FeXL, you always try to back up what you post....sometimes your world view gets in the way. So here is my world view on Reagan....his presidency was the begining of the downfall of the middle class in the U.S.....we could debate this for hours but I’m never going to change my mind. He and the SCOUS opened the door for money to buy votes.... and in my world view the Donald is going down the same path....no matter how he spins his policies.


----------



## Beej

When you say one thing, but mean your mother.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...hristians-and-chick-fil-a-has-troubling-roots



> Narrow-mindedness of this sort is alarmingly common on the left. A few years ago, a well-known progressive commentator mused to his large Twitter following that sometimes he wishes all the Christians would just disappear. I would like to believe he was simply too uninformed to realize that he was wishing for a whiter world.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Right thread--just painful to your ears.




Well. I didn't realize Alberta is part of America now. Puts a lot of things in perspective.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Reagan's economic policies resulted in robust growth for years--what part of that did you object to?


Well, I'd say the part that involved "trickle-down economics", the most outlandish economic lie to have been foisted on people since Adam Smith's 'free hand'. 

Folks who base their definition of economic success on GDP growth exhibit a very myopic view of a given economy.


----------



## Rps

Folks who base their definition of economic success on GDP growth exhibit a very myopic view of a given economy.

CubaMark, I’ve got to say I lean more to GDP as a measure but you are right, in my opinion trickle down was a con. The only ones who won that battle were the wealthy. You can peg the fall of the middle class in the U.S. to the Reagan era.


----------



## Macfury

If you're never going to change your mind, then no point in presenting evidence that I believe you are wrong.



Rps said:


> MacFury, you and I have ideological differences, and I respect that....same with FeXL, you always try to back up what you post....sometimes your world view gets in the way. So here is my world view on Reagan....his presidency was the begining of the downfall of the middle class in the U.S.....we could debate this for hours but I’m never going to change my mind. He and the SCOUS opened the door for money to buy votes.... and in my world view the Donald is going down the same path....no matter how he spins his policies.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well. I didn't realize Alberta is part of America now. Puts a lot of things in perspective.


Notley's failures are what the Democrats aspire to.


----------



## Macfury

If you folks think the that "trickle down" was some sort of invention of the 1980s, you don't have much of a sense of economic history. 

But nonetheless, take a look at the attached graph and see what happened to middle class income under various presidents. Clinton had the benefit of a Newt Gingrich controlled House, of course.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you're never going to change your mind, then no point in presenting evidence that I believe you are wrong.



Wow. That was persuasive.


----------



## Macfury

Another empty post from Freddie. Working on an unbroken streak?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wow. That was persuasive.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Another empty post from Freddie. Working on an unbroken streak?



You're one to talk. What exactly did you just communicate that was worthy of pondering?


----------



## Macfury

Right after my post defining the success of Reagan's economic policy for middle class Americans, was your empty post excoriating me for not doings so. That's why you're being chided for your usual vacuous posts.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You're one to talk. What exactly did you just communicate that was worthy of pondering?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Right after my post defining the success of Reagan's economic policy for middle class Americans, was your empty post excoriating me for not doings so. That's why you're being chided for your usual vacuous posts.




Another empty chiding childish post courtesy of Macfury.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If you're never going to change your mind, then no point in presenting evidence that I believe you are wrong.


Now that is a great line 😀😀😀. It just goes to show that everyone is entitled to their opinion.........no matter how silly-assed it is, or expressed another way, you have the right to be wrong.:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: ( not meant as a slam by the way )


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Now that is a great line 😀😀😀. It just goes to show that everyone is entitled to their opinion.........no matter how silly-assed it is, or expressed another way, you have the right to be wrong.:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: ( not meant as a slam by the way )


I thought it was entirely reasonable--nice Canadian way to step aside!

BTW, I presented that chart on US middle class income for CubaMark who agrees with you.


----------



## CubaMark

_This wasn't a nuclear energy production facility, but a nuclear weapons plant. Build the bombs to kill 'em over there; the side-effects may kill 'em right here. Great logic...._

*Plutonium Dust Released from Closed Hanford Nuclear Weapons Site*

April 16th, 2018
Via: Los Angeles Times:

As crews demolished a shuttered nuclear weapons plant during 2017 in central Washington, specks of plutonium were swept up in high gusts and blown miles across a desert plateau above the Columbia River.

The releases at the Department of Energy cleanup site spewed unknown amounts of plutonium dust into the environment, coated private automobiles with the toxic heavy metal and dispensed lifetime internal radioactive doses to 42 workers.

The contamination events went on for nearly 12 months, getting progressively worse before the project was halted in mid-December. Now, state health and environmental regulators, Energy Department officials and federal safety investigators are trying to figure out what went wrong and who is responsible.

(Los Angeles Times via Cryptogon)​


----------



## Macfury

Minimum negative air requirements used to sandblast steel bridges would have provided the engineering required to avoid particle dispersal.


----------



## FeXL

I say go for it, Nancy! Don't forget to address that nasty Tax Reform problem, too!!!

Confident Pelosi: Dems Ready to Push Amnesty, Gun Control ‘When We Win’ in Nov



> A confident House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) predicted on Tuesday that Democrats will take back the House and immediately push for amnesty for so-called Dreamers and more gun-control legislation.
> 
> “When we win and we take over in January, some of the issues that will come up soon are some of the issues that we are asking the Speaker to do right now,” she said at a Georgetown University event.
> 
> Pelosi then said Democrats are set to push “gun-violence legislation and background-checks legislation” in addition to “legislation on the Dreamers.”


----------



## FeXL

There is no f'ing way, absolutely zero chance, of Sharia law being integrated into Western politics. Ain't happenin'. Nosiree...

Maine: House Democrats vote to allow female genital mutilation



> *Following swift action from Maine House Democrats on the last day of the legislative session, there will be no Female Genital Mutilation ban in the Pine Tree State.*
> 
> After months of pretending they wanted to stop the barbaric ritual child abuse of FGM, the Democrat caucus showed their true colors on the issue late Wednesday night.
> 
> By a final vote of 77-70, the House killed the FGM ban in a mostly party-line vote. Rep. Cathy Nadeau (D-Winslow) was the only Democrat who crossed the aisle to protect young daughters of immigrants in Maine from this brutal abuse.


Yeah, my bold.

Just one question: How do you <expletive deleted> live with yourselves?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> There is no f'ing way, absolutely zero chance, of Sharia law being integrated into Western politics. Ain't happenin'. Nosiree...
> 
> Maine: House Democrats vote to allow female genital mutilation
> 
> Yeah, my bold.
> 
> Just one question: How do you <expletive deleted> live with yourselves?


*Still sticking with the same old "sources", eh FeXL?*

Ah well, something to get yer knickers in a twist, I guess, get the old blood pumping, enrage the intentionally-ignorant conservative base... Yup, same old ****e.

*Did Maine House Democrats Vote to Allow Female Genital Mutilation?
*
*Legislators in Maine did not pass a bill or any legislation permitting female genital mutilation, an act that is already restricted at the federal level.*

_(Cue all the "snopes is biased!" bull**** from people who can't admit they're wrong)_


----------



## Macfury

I checked the legislative record and it appears that Dems were successful in making the offense less punitive to perps.



CubaMark said:


> *Still sticking with the same old "sources", eh FeXL?*
> 
> Ah well, something to get yer knickers in a twist, I guess, get the old blood pumping, enrage the intentionally-ignorant conservative base... Yup, same old ****e.
> 
> *Did Maine House Democrats Vote to Allow Female Genital Mutilation?
> *
> *Legislators in Maine did not pass a bill or any legislation permitting female genital mutilation, an act that is already restricted at the federal level.*
> 
> _(Cue all the "snopes is biased!" bull**** from people who can't admit they're wrong)_


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I checked the legislative record and it appears that Dems were successful in making the offense less punitive to perps.


Care to elaborate, links to sources, etc.? 

Curious as to how they could do so, given that FGM is outlawed at the Federal level....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Care to elaborate, links to sources, etc.?
> 
> Curious as to how they could do so, given that FGM is outlawed at the Federal level....


My understanding--and it is not definitive--is that the act of FGM is illegal on a federal level. The act of consenting to the procedure for a minor is illegal on the state level. The amendments reduce the severity of the crime of "consent" on "first offense":



> This amendment, which is the majority report of the committee, elevates from Class B to Class A the new crime of performing female genital mutilation on a female person under 18 years of age. The amendment reduces from a Class B to a Class C crime the first offense of a parent, guardian or custodian of the female person under 18 years of age in consenting to or permitting the procedure but retains as a Class B crime any subsequent offenses. The amendment provides a defense to the new crime of female genital mutilation that, when the procedure was consented to or permitted by a parent, guardian or custodian of a female person under 18 years of age, the parent, guardian or custodian was compelled to consent to or permit the procedure by force or by threat of death or bodily injury to that person or another person.


http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper=HP0525&item=2&snum=128


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The amendments reduce the severity of the crime of "consent" on "first offense":


Thank-you for the elaboration.

I'm no jurist, obviously, but what I read from this: 

"The amendment provides a defense to the new crime of female genital mutilation that, when the procedure was consented to or permitted by a parent, guardian or custodian of a female person under 18 years of age, the parent, guardian or custodian *was compelled to consent to or permit the procedure by force or by threat of death or bodily injury* to that person or another person."​
...is that the changes to state law (supersedes Federal law? I'm unclear on how the Union works in that regard) provide a potential defence in an extreme context.

It in no way is, as FeXL's _impeccable_ sources :lmao: claim, an introduction of Sharia Law nor is it any sort of legalization of FGM.

Somebody needs to tone down the hyperbole.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Still sticking with the same old "sources", eh FeXL?*
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well, something to get yer knickers in a twist, I guess, get the old blood pumping, enrage the intentionally-ignorant conservative base... Yup, same old ****e.
> 
> 
> 
> *Did Maine House Democrats Vote to Allow Female Genital Mutilation?
> 
> *
> 
> *Legislators in Maine did not pass a bill or any legislation permitting female genital mutilation, an act that is already restricted at the federal level.*
> 
> 
> 
> _(Cue all the "snopes is biased!" bull**** from people who can't admit they're wrong)_




Jihadwatch. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Macfury

Not 'nuff said: Bangor Daily News.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Jihadwatch. 'Nuff said.


----------



## FeXL

You? Criticizing me for my sources? Clock Girl, much?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

You funny guy, CM.

As far as your false god, Snopes, is concerned, they, like you, are FOS and have a political axe to grind.

'Nuf said.



CubaMark said:


> Still sticking with the same old "sources", eh FeXL?


You recall the protests of the 60's, CM? I do. One of the tag lines that came out of the period was (paraphrasing), "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

That's precisely what my post was about. The Maine Dems had a perfect opportunity to address this full on and what do they do? What Dems always do. About face & run full speed in the opposite direction.

If you want to learn more about the how & why of state vs federal legislation, click here:

Maine Democrats Quash Bill to Criminalize FGM

Related:

Maine Democrats Vote Down Bill Banning FGM

By not nipping this in the bud, they are tacitly endorsing it. Eg., part of the problem, not part of the solution.



CubaMark said:


> It in no way is, as FeXL's _impeccable_ sources :lmao: claim, an introduction of Sharia Law nor is it any sort of legalization of FGM.


----------



## FeXL

Precisely WTF does that mean, Freddie?

Too in depth for you? Finding yourself a little over your head? Excessive math?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Jihadwatch. 'Nuff said.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You? Criticizing me for my sources? Clock Girl, much?


The only possible response to your continued alternate universe rantings is: _you are deranged._

*'nuff said*, as others have said.


----------



## CubaMark

The problem with being a chronic liar is that you need to remember what you lied about, or somewhere down the line you'll trip yourself up.

Case in point: The Buffoon-in-Chief, Mr. Donald Trump.

*Trump admits for first time that Michael Cohen represented him in Stormy Daniels case*
*In an interview with Fox News on Thursday morning, Trump appeared to reveal that he had knowledge of Cohen’s payment to Daniels. “Michael represents me, like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me,” Trump said.*

U.S. President Donald Trump acknowledged Thursday for the first time that his longtime lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen represented him in efforts to silence Stormy Daniels, the adult film actress who has alleged a sexual encounter with Trump more than a decade ago.

Trump earlier this month denied any knowledge of the $130,000 (U.S.) payment to Daniels that was arranged by Cohen and is subject of a federal investigation, telling reporters: “I don’t know” about the payment or where Cohen got the money. And the White House repeatedly has insisted that Daniels’ allegations that she had a sexual encounter with Trump in 2006 were false.

* * *

“Michael represents me, like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me,” Trump said. “And from what I’ve seen, he did absolutely nothing wrong. There were no campaign funds going into this.”

Daniels’ attorney, Michael Avenatti, weighed in a few minutes later on MSNBC and said that Trump had made a “hugely damaging admission.”

* * *

On Wednesday, Cohen told a federal judge that he will invoke his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself in a lawsuit brought by Daniels. 

(TheStar)​


----------



## FeXL

You fall for a fabricated lie that a 6 year old could have sussed out, starting making up your own $h!t about it & _I'm_ the deranged one.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Pull the other finger...



CubaMark said:


> The only possible response to your continued alternate universe rantings is: _you are deranged._


----------



## FeXL

No. Body. Cares. Save the Trump Deranged Progs. (the iron...)



CubaMark said:


> Trump admits for first time that Michael Cohen represented him in Stormy Daniels case


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You fall for a fabricated lie that a 6 year old could have sussed out, starting making up your own $h!t about it & _I'm_ the deranged one.


I, and many others, took a child's claim that she had been attack as plausible. I won't apologize for presuming honesty in a child. You embody the polar opposite: because the child was a muslim, you immediately suspected something untoward. That's a flaw in your character, not mine.

Your sources, of which there are ample examples in your posts within this forum, have a common theme: intolerance, bigotry, prejudice, hatred. You're welcome to keep those as the bases for your derangement. The rest of humanity will leave you neanderthals behind soon enough... Darwin works (too damn) slowly, but inevitably.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> No. Body. Cares. Save the Trump Deranged Progs. (the iron...)


I sure as hell remember a whole lotta moral outrage from the hypocritical Right back then. Back then, it seems, Republicans cared about character. Nowadays character doesn't matter, since Trump is giving the extreme conservative base what they (think they) want. 

Funny how context matters....


----------



## FeXL

I, and many others, took what was obviously an outright lie & waited for the truth to out. You, & many others (predominantly from the <spit> Progressive left), immediately jumped on this with your Muslim Victim Syndrome spectacles firmly glued to your faces & began to castigate an entire population of innocent people.



CubaMark said:


> I, and many others, took a child's claim that she had been attack as plausible.


Nobody's asking you to. What we're asking is that you not let your emotions make a decision that the facts of the story cannot substantiate.

In other words, WAIT FOR THE F'ING FACTS TO COME OUT!!!

Something you regularly accuse others on these boards of. Projecting, much?



CubaMark said:


> I won't apologize for presuming honesty in a child.


Had nothing to do with the fact she was a Muslim. The tale stunk from the get go. Quit trying to justify the fact that you FUBAR'd, big time.

Pro tip: This ain't never goin' away, BTW...



CubaMark said:


> You embody the polar opposite: because the child was a muslim, you immediately suspected something untoward.


The fact that you & your <spit> Progressive left cadre are suckers for any Prog qualified hard luck story, if there be a smidgeon of truth present or not, is _your_ character flaw.



CubaMark said:


> That's a flaw in your character, not mine.


The compassionate, intellectual, _humanitarian_, left is so busy killing itself off with 21st century socialism, illegal guns, multiculturalism, etc.,etc., etc., that us Neanderthals will long outlast you.

In a thousand years scientists will be reading human DNA from the past & wondering, whatever happened to the Progs?

Darwinism, indeed.



CubaMark said:


> The rest of humanity will leave you neanderthals behind soon enough... Darwin works (too damn) slowly, but inevitably.


----------



## FeXL

There was a lot of moral outrage from the right. And well it should, considering all of Slick Willie's victims and his enabling Wife, from Arkansas to Humidor Girl all the way down.



CubaMark said:


> I sure as hell remember a whole lotta moral outrage from the hypocritical Right back then.


Still do. Curiously, the Dems never did & still don't. It's only now that they've created this fake veneer of concern that is as transparent as their efforts to malign Trump.



CubaMark said:


> Back then, it seems, Republicans cared about character.


Trump is giving conservatives Not Bill's Wife. Nothing else need happen. The fact that there is more things happening is merely gravy.

And, the cries from the perpetually offended left is the sprig of parsley on top.



CubaMark said:


> Nowadays character doesn't matter, since Trump is giving the extreme conservative base what they (think they) want.


Context is one thing. Facts are another. Trump had a consensual relationship with a porn star long before he became a politician. Period. And maybe he paid her off to keep her mouth shut about it & maybe not. And maybe his lawyer friend was involved in the decision & maybe not. Who cares?

I can say with some certainty, however, that the Russkies had _nothing_ to do with it. :lmao:

I've noted this before: There is plenty enough to level legitimate criticism at. Why is the left content to roll around in the mud?



CubaMark said:


> Funny how context matters....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely WTF does that mean, Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> Too in depth for you? Finding yourself a little over your head? Excessive math?




Fake News, more like. Yeah, I used to be entertained by Weekly World News when I was young and naive. That Batboy was something else!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> The problem with being a chronic liar is that you need to remember what you lied about, or somewhere down the line you'll trip yourself up.
> 
> 
> 
> Case in point: The Buffoon-in-Chief, Mr. Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump admits for first time that Michael Cohen represented him in Stormy Daniels case*
> 
> *In an interview with Fox News on Thursday morning, Trump appeared to reveal that he had knowledge of Cohen’s payment to Daniels. “Michael represents me, like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me,” Trump said.*
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump acknowledged Thursday for the first time that his longtime lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen represented him in efforts to silence Stormy Daniels, the adult film actress who has alleged a sexual encounter with Trump more than a decade ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump earlier this month denied any knowledge of the $130,000 (U.S.) payment to Daniels that was arranged by Cohen and is subject of a federal investigation, telling reporters: “I don’t know” about the payment or where Cohen got the money. And the White House repeatedly has insisted that Daniels’ allegations that she had a sexual encounter with Trump in 2006 were false.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> 
> “Michael represents me, like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me,” Trump said. “And from what I’ve seen, he did absolutely nothing wrong. There were no campaign funds going into this.”
> 
> 
> 
> Daniels’ attorney, Michael Avenatti, weighed in a few minutes later on MSNBC and said that Trump had made a “hugely damaging admission.”
> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, Cohen told a federal judge that he will invoke his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself in a lawsuit brought by Daniels.
> 
> 
> 
> (TheStar)​



Trump is hopeless. He wouldn't know the truth anymore if it came back to bite him in the ass. And now it has.


----------



## Macfury

Why did you never say that about Obama's relentless lies?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is hopeless. He wouldn't know the truth anymore if it came back to bite him in the ass. And now it has.


----------



## FeXL

Like I thought. Too much math. As in, 1+1=2...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Fake News, more like.


And now you're older & merely wilfully ignorant.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...I used to be entertained by Weekly World News when I was young and naive.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why did you never say that about Obama's relentless lies?



Because Obama didn't lie. Pretty self-evident question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Like I thought. Too much math. As in, 1+1=2...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now you're older & merely wilfully ignorant.



Because I don't blindly believe your alt-right "sources"? Okay.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, it's a problem when someone as old as yourself develops hero worship.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Because Obama didn't lie. Pretty self-evident question.


----------



## eMacMan

Just curious as to how you construe not closing Gitmo, as Obama telling the truth. My imagination is not quite that elastic.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Just curious as to how you construe not closing Gitmo, as Obama telling the truth. My imagination is not quite that elastic.



I'm not sure that reneging on a campaign promise is the same thing as not telling the truth. One is not making an accurate prediction about something that hasn't happened yet. What did he lie about that actually happened?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not sure that reneging on a campaign promise is the same thing as not telling the truth. One is not making an accurate prediction about something that hasn't happened yet. What did he lie about that actually happened?


Why don't you start listing Trump's lies in detail, and I'll match you with Obama lies one for one. However, you'll need to prove that you understand the issues you're talking about--no cut-and-paste or memes.


----------



## FeXL

Nobody's asking you to blindly believe anything. I certainly don't.

However, until you've proven otherwise, it ain't "fake news".

Waiting for the big expose...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Because I don't blindly believe your alt-right "sources"? Okay.


----------



## FeXL

Carbon Tax: A Bad Idea Whose Time Should Never Come 



> The temptation of a carbon tax these days seems great, even to some Republicans. But it's a bad idea. Now two GOP lawmakers want to put people on the record opposing it, in the hopes of keeping it from becoming a reality.
> X
> 
> The resolution, proposed by Republican Reps. Steve Scalise of Louisiana and David McKinley of West Virginia, is simple, "expressing the sense of Congress that a carbon tax would be detrimental to the United States economy."
> 
> Yes, we know. A resolution does nothing. Similar anti-carbon tax resolutions passed the House in 2013 and 2016, and meant nothing. Yet a resolution does one thing that matters: It puts people on the record.


That Canadians had politicians with the same foresight...


----------



## Macfury

Waiting for that? You'll need a calendar, not a stopwatch.



FeXL said:


> Nobody's asking you to blindly believe anything. I certainly don't.
> 
> However, until you've proven otherwise, it ain't "fake news".
> 
> Waiting for the big expose...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Waiting for that? You'll need a calendar, not a stopwatch.


Thx for the laugh. :lmao:

I agree. It's just a matter of putting it on Freddie's blowhard record.

I realize it's futile because Progs just don't seem to care much about character...


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not sure that reneging on a campaign promise is the same thing as not telling the truth. One is not making an accurate prediction about something that hasn't happened yet. What did he lie about that actually happened?


Thing is that campaign promise put Obama on the record as being against the direction the country was going and was a commitment to change that direction. It was not couched with the typical weasel words, it was a flat out commitment. Reneging on it on Day 1 of his presidency set the tone for his entire 8 year stint. He not only reneged, he did not even make a half-assed effort to appear as though he was attempting to follow through. America went on to devastate Libya, Syria and Yemen either directly or through proxies. Hiliaries commitment to continue in that direction no doubt cost her the election. 

Seriously if Americans had wanted another Bush they would have voted McCain.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why don't you start listing Trump's lies in detail, and I'll match you with Obama lies one for one. However, you'll need to prove that you understand the issues you're talking about--no cut-and-paste or memes.



I need to prove nothing to you. Stop being so bossy—it's a conversation killer. If you want to list Obama's lies, go right ahead.


----------



## Macfury

Your track record of laziness is the conversation killer, Freddie. Back to your nap!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I need to prove nothing to you. Stop being so bossy—it's a conversation killer. If you want to list Obama's lies, go right ahead.


----------



## FeXL

That's right. It's your call. Only if you want to improve your credibility on these boards. Which, at the current ranking of -6 is actually 9 above CM's -15 & 12 above Priapus Boy's -18...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I need to prove nothing to you.


You sound like a kid in the sand box in grade 1: "Yer not the boss of me. Stop being so bossy! TEACHERRRRR!!!!! MF'S BEING BOSSY!!!!!!!"

See, Freddie, this ain't the defunct Prog MacDiscussions where we all agree with each other, slapping each other on the backs for teaching all those alt-right's at ehMac a lesson by leaving them unto themselves & certain failure, congratulating each other for a job well done & vacuously nodding in agreement on each content-free post.

Here on ehMac the currency is information. Facts. Hard numbers. Empirical evidence. You wanna make a claim? Be able to back it up. Wanna spout nonsense? Hit the Koffee Klatch down in the staff room. You'll find open, sympathetic arms there.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Stop being so bossy—it's a conversation killer.


Curious thing is, Freddie, is the only ones who can't list Barry's lies are you Prog ideologues.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you want to list Obama's lies, go right ahead.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Back to your nap!


Quit being so bossy, MF!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

There will still be some hardcore idiots who will continue the crusade.

Trump hails House Intelligence Committee report on Russia



> The House Intelligence Committee has released a 253-page report on its investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
> 
> The GOP report signals the committee found no evidence of collusion between Trump campaign associates and Russia...


More:



> In a 98-page rebuttal, Democrats highlighted what they described as "gaps" in the GOP report and areas of investigation left unexplored.


I suspect the only gaps that need addressing here are the ones between Democrat's ears and the gaps in their own credibility...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> That's right. It's your call. Only if you want to improve your credibility on these boards. Which, at the current ranking of -6 is actually 9 above CM's -15 & 12 above Priapus Boy's -18...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like a kid in the sand box in grade 1: "Yer not the boss of me. Stop being so bossy! TEACHERRRRR!!!!! MF'S BEING BOSSY!!!!!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> See, Freddie, this ain't the defunct Prog MacDiscussions where we all agree with each other, slapping each other on the backs for teaching all those alt-right's at ehMac a lesson by leaving them unto themselves & certain failure, congratulating each other for a job well done & vacuously nodding in agreement on each content-free post.
> 
> 
> 
> Here on ehMac the currency is information. Facts. Hard numbers. Empirical evidence. You wanna make a claim? Be able to back it up. Wanna spout nonsense? Hit the Koffee Klatch down in the staff room. You'll find open, sympathetic arms there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious thing is, Freddie, is the only ones who can't list Barry's lies are you Prog ideologues.



Here at ehMac? With all ten of us? Woo. There are other discussion forums I am a part of where people actually have, you know, discussions. It would be good for you to get out of your little shell once in a while.


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, I remember you showing us some of those great places for discussion. I don't believe you know how to do that: you basically bend over, pass loud gas and expect people to either offer praise or remain silent — instead of protesting the odour.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Here at ehMac? With all ten of us? Woo. There are other discussion forums I am a part of where people actually have, you know, discussions. It would be good for you to get out of your little shell once in a while.


----------



## FeXL

FTFY...

"There are other Prog-only discussion forums I am a part of where we all sit down, say the same things, nod our heads in agreement, laugh en-masse at the "alt-right" & call it "discussion"."

I've noted this before, Freddie.  You are not truly interested in "discussion". You want submission. Ain't happening while the blood still pumps in my veins.

If things are so horrible here, why has your posting frequency increased here lately? Can't be all that bad...



Freddie_Biff said:


> There are other discussion forums I am a part of where people actually have, you know, discussions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yeah, I remember you showing us some of those great places for discussion. I don't believe you know how to do that: you basically bend over, pass loud gas and expect people to either offer praise or remain silent — instead of protesting the odour.



How do you actually have any friends? If you are anything in real life like you are here, you must be incredibly lonely.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FTFY...
> 
> 
> 
> "There are other Prog-only discussion forums I am a part of where we all sit down, say the same things, nod our heads in agreement, laugh en-masse at the "alt-right" & call it "discussion"."
> 
> 
> 
> I've noted this before, Freddie. You are not truly interested in "discussion". You want submission. Ain't happening while the blood still pumps in my veins.
> 
> 
> 
> If things are so horrible here, why has your posting frequency increased here lately? Can't be all that bad...




You have no idea how wrong you are. It's possible for people to disagree without being disagreeable. You'd be surprised.


----------



## Macfury

I'm neither lonely here or in real life--funny that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you actually have any friends? If you are anything in real life like you are here, you must be incredibly lonely.


----------



## Macfury

The problem here is not the disagreement, it's simply your disrespectful attitude to the board community. By all means disagree, but at least do others the courtesy of supporting your ideas. "Obama never lied but I refuse to support the notion" is about as discourteous as it gets.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You have no idea how wrong you are. It's possible for people to disagree without being disagreeable. You'd be surprised.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The problem here is not the disagreement, it's simply your disrespectful attitude to the board community. By all means disagree, but at least do others the courtesy of supporting your ideas. "Obama never lied but I refuse to support the notion" is about as discourteous as it gets.



You seem very narrow-minded about how people should converse with one another. If anyone is disrespectful to the ehMac community—all ten of us—it is you and your sidekicks with your narrow alt-right views. Image be how welcome anyone with a progressive leaning must feel being insulted all the time. That **** would never fly with proper moderators.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You seem very narrow-minded about how people should converse with one another. If anyone is disrespectful to the ehMac community—all ten of us—it is you and your sidekicks with your narrow alt-right views. Image be how welcome anyone with a progressive leaning must feel being insulted all the time.


It's not your prog views that are at issue here. It's your punch-and-retreat style that's the problem. You simply lash out with some sort of opinion, then retreat when asked to support it. That's not discussion--it's a meme.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That **** would never fly with proper moderators.


I guess MacDiscussions showed us how it's done with "proper moderators."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's not your prog views that are at issue here. It's your punch-and-retreat style that's the problem. You simply lash out with some sort of opinion, then retreat when asked to support it. That's not discussion--it's a meme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess MacDiscussions showed us how it's done with "proper moderators."




Why do you keep bringing them up? They're a ghost town, and they're certainly not the forums I'm referring to. Fixate much?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you keep bringing them up? They're a ghost town...


A ghost town? The site has closed permanently, precisely because of the heavily moderated atmosphere you crave. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...and they're certainly not the forums I'm referring to...


I remember that you cited some forums that offered discussion you appreciated, and where people got along. Their attitudes were far harsher than anything I've seen here and I recall some threads devoted entirely to bashing particular members. It's no wonder you keep coming back here. EhMac is a bunch of cream puffs compared to those crowds.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A ghost town? The site has closed permanently, precisely because of the heavily moderated atmosphere you crave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember that you cited some forums that offered discussion you appreciated, and where people got along. Their attitudes were far harsher than anything I've seen here and I recall some threads devoted entirely to bashing particular members. It's no wonder you keep coming back here. EhMac is a bunch of cream puffs compared to those crowds.




Well, believe what you want to believe. Your view of "other sites" is considerably jaded because you've found what you want here—with all ten of us. I never left ehMac, but I realize I have to tolerate a lot of alt-right views if I wish to engage in some of the more political threads. It just gets boring after a while knowing exactly how someone will respond. Every. Single. Time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, believe what you want to believe. Your view of "other sites" is considerably jaded...


My view of the sites you mentioned isn't jaded--their repartee was outrightly cruel.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It just gets boring after a while knowing exactly how someone will respond. Every. Single. Time.


Imagine how it feels to see you lash out and retreat on every issue. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> My view of the sites you mentioned isn't jaded--their repartee was outrightly cruel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine how it feels to see you lash out and retreat on every issue. Every. Single. Time.




Yep. Pretty much what I thought you'd say.


----------



## Macfury

Predicting things after the fact is one of your signature skills, Freddie



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yep. Pretty much what I thought you'd say.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> It just gets boring after a while knowing exactly how someone will respond. Every. Single. Time.


It's uncanny how some people do not realize they are describing themselves exactly. 

Every. Single. Time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> It's uncanny how some people do not realize they are describing themselves exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Every. Single. Time.




Yup. Right on cue.


----------



## Macfury

Predicting after the fact with 100 per cent accuracy! How does he keep doing it it folks? 

Of course, it doesn't work very well going forward as "Madame President" will attest.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Predicting after the fact with 100 per cent accuracy! How does he keep doing it it folks?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, it doesn't work very well going forward as "Madame President" will attest.




Well, it certainly worked for Madame Premier. Three years and running! But I digress.


----------



## Beej

The over-the-top opposition media is not good at bringing attention to bear where it matters despite the constant scrutiny of Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-a-legacy-for-trump-with-reshaped-u-s-courts


> The Republican-led Senate confirmed Trump’s 15th appeals court nominee this week — more than the last five presidents at this juncture — with eight of the new judges in their 40s, and seven in their 50s. McConnell set the stage Thursday to confirm six more, one day after a committee voted to cut debate time, which if approved would further speed things up.


cnn.com currently has a migrant mom story, and scrolling down a few lines of caravan stories...I can see a picture of Stormy Daniels.

msnbc.com I can see the word, "Russian" three times and, "Stormy" once without scrolling.

nytimes.com Korea and other important looking items. That's good.

1/3.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Do you think that no such list has already existed for decades? You of all people should be more politically savvy than that.


----------



## Macfury

You didn't even predict that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, it certainly worked for Madame Premier. Three years and running! But I digress.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you keep bringing them up? They're a ghost town, and they're certainly not the forums I'm referring to. Fixate much?


Actually, if you want to a well moderated forum drop in to banjohangout. About 90% of the discussion here would be locked. So, depending on your view that may either be a good or bad thing. 

Personally, we all should discuss the issue and never the issuer.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You didn't even predict that!




I certainly did. Go back and reread the forums.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> Actually, if you want to a well moderated forum drop in to banjohangout. About 90% of the discussion here would be locked. So, depending on your view that may either be a good or bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, we all should discuss the issue and never the issuer.



Absolutely, Rps. Too many people on this site think it's acceptable to make personal attacks, which does nothing but stifle actual conversation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely, Rps. Too many people on this site think it's acceptable to make personal attacks, which does nothing but stifle actual conversation.


Which is why I have stopped coming to this and the other political sites here in ehMacLand. Just thought I would check in here to see what is being said about the Korean situation.

Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Which is why I have stopped coming to this and the other political sites here in ehMacLand. Just thought I would check in here to see what is being said about the Korean situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Paix, mes amis.



Not much yet, but if you're a Pink Floyd fan, this picture might ring a bell.


----------



## Macfury

Should be really easy for you to find the prediction you remember... go for it! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> I certainly did. Go back and reread the forums.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely, Rps. Too many people on this site think it's acceptable to make personal attacks, which does nothing but stifle actual conversation.


Yep. All the good people have gone to MacDiscussions. We've heard it before





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely, Rps. Too many people on this site think it's acceptable to make personal attacks, which does nothing but stifle actual conversation.


Oh what a tangled web we weave....



Freddie_Biff said:


> Grab an f'ing clue yourself, asshole.





Freddie_Biff said:


> You are an idiot. No offense, but I've never had much success convincing an idiot of anything.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Don't be an idiot, Macfury.





Freddie_Biff said:


> You are an asshole first and foremost, and there's absolutely nothing for me to gain from your bitterness. Have a nice fukcing evening.





fjnmusic said:


> Once an asshole, always an asshole.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





fjnmusic said:


> It feels good to type the word asshole and not have it censored though, eh? Asshole. Asshole. Asshole.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





fjnmusic said:


> Don't be an asshole, Don.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Should be really easy for you to find the prediction you remember... go for it!




I don't need to look it up; I remember what I said. Something to do with Jim Prentice and #mathishard as I recall.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Oh what a tangled web we weave....




My, we hold on to our anger, don't we? You must keep all that stress stored in your shoulders somewhere. Good work on the research though; these quips still give me a chuckle. Good news: you're not an asshole or an idiot all the time.


----------



## FeXL

Really? You mean, kinda like FeXL & Beej, FeXL & Rps? Among others who are certainly _not_ of my particular political stripe??

Sunofagun. _Not_ surprised...

You know why we can "disagree without being disagreeable"? 'Cause they defend their arguments with, if not facts, then at least a sincere effort to answer questions & present informed points. Not everything is a black & white issue where somebody is patently wrong (although you do deserve your fair share of being patently wrong...).

You do none of the above, merely sniping from the side & then telling people to go fetch your defense for you, 'cause you're too damn lazy to get it yourself. In addition, despite always pleading the case that you're a nice guy, you are one of the worst offenders on this board for being offensive.

That's why you get the treatment you do here on ehMac. It's well-earned. Your whiny bitch victim role on these boards has long worn itself out.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's possible for people to disagree without being disagreeable. You'd be surprised.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Really? You mean blah blah blah



Yup. You are the model of good ehMac citizenship. Everyone should strive to be more personable like you.


----------



## Macfury

I don't have any anger, Freddie. That's a wasted emotion.



Freddie_Biff said:


> My, we hold on to our anger, don't we? You must keep all that stress stored in your shoulders somewhere. Good work on the research though; these quips still give me a chuckle. Good news: you're not an asshole or an idiot all the time.


----------



## FeXL

I believe this post has a response already prepared...



> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff View Post
> 
> 
> Grab an f'ing clue yourself, asshole.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff View Post
> 
> 
> You are an idiot. No offense, but I've never had much success convincing an idiot of anything.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff View Post
> 
> 
> Don't be an idiot, Macfury.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Freddie_Biff View Post
> 
> 
> You are an asshole first and foremost, and there's absolutely nothing for me to gain from your bitterness. Have a nice fukcing evening.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by fjnmusic View Post
> 
> 
> Once an asshole, always an asshole.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by fjnmusic View Post
> 
> 
> It feels good to type the word asshole and not have it censored though, eh? Asshole. Asshole. Asshole.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by fjnmusic View Post
> 
> 
> Don't be an asshole, Don.


Have a nice evening, Mr. Personable, Model ehMac citizen...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:




Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. You are the model of good ehMac citizenship. Everyone should strive to be more personable like you.


----------



## Macfury

I chanced on this fascinating article which I believe is relevant here:



> The “easily offended” are not too attached to principals, as their critics assume. They don’t care about ideas. But they care a lot about getting along with their tribe and gaining political advantage over their victims.
> 
> If you think it is “human” to feel offended, think about this: *Why are you tempted to feeloffended, instead of, say, debating your opponents? Why do you find debates so tiring? Why do you fear your ideas can’t stand on their own merit? *There are people who find the experience of feeling offended undesirable. Why do you feel so differently? The reasons, of course, are unpleasant, and you probably don’t admit them to yourself.


Emphasis mine.

Are Social Justice Warriors Snowflakes? Or Just Cold… | The Daily Bell


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I chanced on this fascinating article which I believe is relevant here:


Nails it.

As does this quote from the same article:



> The solution, of course, is to stop subsidizing bad behavior.


Well, well, well. Whaddya know? beejacon

It also segues nicely into this meme that I've been carrying around for some time:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Nails it.
> 
> 
> 
> As does this quote from the same article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, well, well. Whaddya know? beejacon
> 
> 
> 
> It also segues nicely into this meme that I've been carrying around for some time:




Funny. I'm also a fan of Stephen Fry.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I chanced on this fascinating article which I believe is relevant here:


I've seen the same as well. If anyone recalls the video of a young woman bothering a young man about his dreadlocks, she looked happy while harassing him. 

Same thing with loud twitter complaints over "cultural appropriation" -- it's socially acceptable bullying.

If the mob criticism they try to launch at a victim gets directed at them in return, they complain about harassment (and throw in a few 'isms) as if that wasn't what they were doing in the first place.


----------



## FeXL

Fan? Prior to running across that particular meme, I'd never heard of him. Know nothing about him now.

I merely thought the quote summed up the perpetually offended left rather nicely...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny. I'm also a fan of Stephen Fry.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Same thing with loud twitter complaints over "cultural appropriation" -- it's socially acceptable bullying.


I love discussing cultural appropriation. My immediate reaction is to bring up First Immigrants. It's amazing how quickly that shuts down the Progs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Fan? Prior to running across that particular meme, I'd never heard of him. Know nothing about him now.
> 
> 
> 
> I merely thought the quote summed up the perpetually offended left rather nicely...




Heard of Hugh Laurie? Of House fame? He and Stephen Fry used to have a comedy team together back in the day. Fry is a well known writer who acts a bit here and there.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's Charlie Foxtrot legacy s'more!

ObamaCare Could be Driving People to Drink, Study Finds



> Only a few years into Obama’s signature healthcare law, also known as the Affordable Care Act, and more Americans have taken to the bottle, according to new research.
> 
> “We find relatively robust evidence that the ACA increased risky drinking,” states the report, “The Affordable Care Act on Health Behaviors After Three Years,” published by the National Bureau of Economic Research earlier this month. The paper was written by researchers from Georgia State University, University of Pennsylvania, University of Kentucky, and Maryland-based analysis firm Impaq International.


----------



## FeXL

Prog heads exploding everywhere.

Expert Says No Choice but to Credit Trump on Korea



> With even President Donald Trump’s harshest critics offering grudging praise on his policies toward North Korea, it is hard not to acknowledge that the president has changed the dynamic, a foreign-policy expert said Monday.
> 
> Gordon Chang, author of “Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World,” said on “The Laura Ingraham Show” that he remains “concerned about the future, but very happy about today.” And Trump’s rhetoric and polices have made the difference, he added.
> 
> “We are at a place where no one thought we would be,” he said Monday morning. “That’s not to say we [will] disarm North Korea. But what we are on is a path to disarming North Korea. And that is important, especially with the North Koreans making concessions beforehand.”


And what's Barry's foreign policy legacy? Sending Iran pallets of US dollars.

Which segues me into Iran's nuke program that, "abso-positively wasn't happening!":

U.S. Confirms Authenticity of Secret Iran Nuclear Docs, Officials See Game Over for Deal



> U.S. officials and congressional insiders view the disclosure Monday by Israel of Iran's ongoing efforts to develop a nuclear weapon as game over for the landmark nuclear deal, telling the Washington Free Beacon that new evidence of Iran's top secret nuclear workings makes it virtually impossible for President Donald Trump to remain in the agreement.
> 
> *Senior Trump administration officials confirmed the findings as authentic and praised Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's for disclosing thousands of secret documents proving Iran lied about its past work on a nuclear warhead, telling the Free Beacon the revelation was a "powerful presentation" by Israel outlining why the Iran deal must be fixed or killed.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Little AOS link dump.

Darkly Conspiratorial Hillary Clinton: "I Knew They Would Never Let Me Be President"

_Let?!_ Nope. That position is for those who _earn_ it...

Justice Department "Reviewing" At Least Two of the Memos Comey Leaked to His Pal To Leak to the NYT, For Possible Violations of Classified Material Law

McCabe, Now Criminally Referred by the OIG For Possible Prosecution for Making False Statements, Suing Trump for Defamation?

Mitch McConnell Considering Keeping Senate Open Much Longer During Week to Force Democrats to Either Allow Votes on Trump Nominees, or Spend Most of Campaign Season Filibustering

NeverTrumpers Now Resorting to Hillary Clinton's "It Wasn't _Marked_ Classified" Defense to Defend Comey's Leaks of Classified Documents

Sara Carter: Sources Say the Inspector General Is Investigating Andrew McCabe's Alleged "Stand-Down Order" on the Clinton Foundation Investigation -- As Well as the Clinton Email Investigation

Fourteen States Hit Record-Low Employment Rates, Media Shrieks
Whoops, I Meant Record _Un_employment, and the Media Is Silent

Ultraprog, Super-Feminist Agitprop Organization Center for American Progress Ignored Complaints of Sexual Harassment;
Staffers Shocked When CAP President Neera Tanden Outs Name of Victim in Staff Meeting

"Breathtaking Duplicity:" Comey's Claims vs. Reality

Declassified Congressional Report: Yes, James Clapper Leaked to Jake Tapper About the Russia/Dossier Briefing and Then Lied to Congress About Ir

Sara A. Carter Scoop: The Leaker Who Conducted the Smear Campaign Against Ronny Jackson was Vice President Pence's Government-Payroll Physician

Sara A. Carter: Did CNN's Hiring Of It's Illegal-Leak Source Violate Journalistic Ethics?


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump doc says Trump bodyguard, lawyer 'raided' his office, took medical files*
_Dr. Harold Bornstein said he felt "raped" after White House aide Keith Schiller and lawyer Alan Garten showed up unannounced and took Trump's files._










In February 2017, a top White House aide who was Trump's longtime personal bodyguard, along with the top lawyer at the Trump Organization and a third man, showed up at the office of Trump's New York doctor without notice and took all the president's medical records.

The incident, which Dr. Harold Bornstein described as a "raid," took place two days after Bornstein told a newspaper that he had prescribed a hair growth medicine for the president for years.

In an exclusive interview in his Park Avenue office, Bornstein told NBC News that he felt "raped, frightened and sad" when Keith Schiller and another "large man" came to his office to collect the president's records on the morning of Feb. 3, 2017. At the time, Schiller, who had long worked as Trump's bodyguard, was serving as director of Oval Office operations at the White House.

"They must have been here for 25 or 30 minutes. It created a lot of chaos," Bornstein said, who described the incident as frightening.

* * *​
Bornstein said he was not given a form authorizing the release of the records and signed by the president —known as a HIPAA release — which is a violation of patient privacy law.

* * *​
Bornstein said the original and only copy of Trump's charts, including lab reports under Trump's name as well as under the pseudonyms his office used for Trump, were taken.

Another man, Trump Organization Chief Legal Officer Alan Garten, joined Schiller's team at Bornstein's office, and Bornstein's wife Melissa photocopied his business card. Garten declined to comment on this story.

Schiller, who left the White House in September 2017, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

(NBC News)​


----------



## Macfury

And all the doctor did to deserve having Trump's employees collect Trump's _own_ medical records was to violate doctor-patient confidentiality by leaking private medical information to the press? What has the world come to?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What has the world come to?


Doesn't matter when the left does it...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What has the world come to?


Doesn't matter when the left does it.

But can you imagine the hue & cry if this had happened to Barry?


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Trump doc says Trump bodyguard, lawyer 'raided' his office, took medical files*
> _Dr. Harold Bornstein said he felt "raped" after White House aide Keith Schiller and lawyer Alan Garten showed up unannounced and took Trump's files._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In February 2017, a top White House aide who was Trump's longtime personal bodyguard, along with the top lawyer at the Trump Organization and a third man, showed up at the office of Trump's New York doctor without notice and took all the president's medical records.
> 
> The incident, which Dr. Harold Bornstein described as a "raid," took place two days after Bornstein told a newspaper that he had prescribed a hair growth medicine for the president for years.
> 
> In an exclusive interview in his Park Avenue office, Bornstein told NBC News that he felt "raped, frightened and sad" when Keith Schiller and another "large man" came to his office to collect the president's records on the morning of Feb. 3, 2017. At the time, Schiller, who had long worked as Trump's bodyguard, was serving as director of Oval Office operations at the White House.
> 
> "They must have been here for 25 or 30 minutes. It created a lot of chaos," Bornstein said, who described the incident as frightening.
> 
> * * *​
> Bornstein said he was not given a form authorizing the release of the records and signed by the president —known as a HIPAA release — which is a violation of patient privacy law.
> 
> * * *​
> Bornstein said the original and only copy of Trump's charts, including lab reports under Trump's name as well as under the pseudonyms his office used for Trump, were taken.
> 
> Another man, Trump Organization Chief Legal Officer Alan Garten, joined Schiller's team at Bornstein's office, and Bornstein's wife Melissa photocopied his business card. Garten declined to comment on this story.
> 
> Schiller, who left the White House in September 2017, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> (NBC News)​



I would be incredibly angry myself if my doctor started giving out my medications and health info, especially to the paper. Now I am no celebrity or anyone even in the public eye so I can only imagine what it could do when you are in the public eye. I feel zero sympathy for this doctor and find it laughable that he complains Trump and Co did not fill out the proper paperwork to take his personal files. 

If your doctor did this would you really want him holding onto your files so he can possibly give even more info to the press? No one in their right mind would want that. And now the doctor feels violated and raped. I am sure any patient who again had their private and supposedly confidential information given to the paper feels completely fine and not even the slightest violation at a supposed trusted confidant.


----------



## SINC

wonderings said:


> I would be incredibly angry myself if my doctor started giving out my medications and health info, especially to the paper. Now I am know celebrity or anyone even the public eye, I can only imagine what it could do when you are in the public eye. I feel zero sympathy for this doctor and find it laughable that he complains Trump and Co did not fill out the proper paperwork to take his personal files.
> 
> If your doctor did this would you really want him holding onto your files so he can possibly give even more info to the press? No one in their right mind would want that. And now the doctor feels violated and raped. I am sure any patient who again had their private and supposedly confidential information given to the paper feels completely fine and not even the slightest violation at a supposed trusted confidant.


Nails it. 

I would have done the very same thing under the circumstances had it been my files.


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> Nails it.
> 
> I would have done the very same thing under the circumstances had it been my files.


I guess the good doctor does not believe in cause and effect.


----------



## Macfury

The killer:



> Bornstein said he was not given a form authorizing the release of the records and signed by the president —known as a HIPAA release — which is a _violation of patient privacy law._


CM, what was your intention in posting this article about such a disreputable doctor?


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Nails it.
> 
> I would have done the very same thing under the circumstances had it been my files.


I agree completely that this physician - the guy Trump picked to provide his medical assessment in 2016, written in 5 minutes in a Limo, and which included the very believable statement: _"If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency,"_ - was in the wrong with his public comments about Trumps hair medication.

That said - most people would, y'know, have a lawyer file an injunction or whatever to legally sanction the doctor, not send thugs to the office to take what they wanted by force. What would be the repercussions if any of you did the same if you were unhappy with your physician? I'm thinking cops, handcuffs, maybe a tazing or two....

*EDIT:* Further to the NBC story, the Globe & Mail is now reporting that the doctors says Trump dictated that letter, and he only signed it. Now how does that put into perspective all of the hype about the health of candidates during the campaign, particularly that Hillary was due to keel over any minute?


----------



## Macfury

I would have gone there immediately or sent someone if I couldn't do it. The files belong to the patient, not the doctor.

After the sour grapes from the doctor, I don't have any reason to believe anything else he has to say about Trump's health--or anything else.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would have gone there immediately or sent someone if I couldn't do it. The files belong to the patient, not the doctor.
> 
> 
> 
> After the sour grapes from the doctor, I don't have any reason to believe anything else he has to say about Trump's health--or anything else.




It took you this long to doubt Trump's doctor?


----------



## Macfury

Yes.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It took you this long to doubt Trump's doctor?


----------



## macintosh doctor

Wow, but i thought the "progressive" Left said Trump was going to start WW3 LOL - Trump has done more in 1 year than Obama ever did in 8 years... 
North Korea releases POWs https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/2/north-korea-releases-us-detainees-bows-another-tru/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> Wow, but i thought the "progressive" Left said Trump was going to start WW3 LOL - Trump has done more in 1 year than Obama ever did in 8 years...
> 
> North Korea releases POWs https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/2/north-korea-releases-us-detainees-bows-another-tru/




And why exactly do you credit Trump for anything North Korea (or any other country) has done? Post hoc ergo proper hoc? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Because Trump demanded the release of Nork captives as a condition for negotiations. You would know this if you were following the story.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And why exactly do you credit Trump for anything North Korea (or any other country) has done? Post hoc ergo proper hoc?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Because Trump demanded the release of Nork captives as a condition for negotiations. You would know this if you were following the story.


Freddie read a story praising Trump? <snort> Not in this lifetime...


----------



## FeXL

Wait...wha?!

Flashback: Obama Told Us the Russians Couldn’t Rig an Election



> *OBAMA: There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even — you could even rig America’s elections, in part because they’re so decentralized and the numbers of votes involved. There’s no evidence that has has happened in the past or that there are instances in which that will happen this time.*


B-b-b-bu-b-but...THE RUSSKIES!!!


----------



## CubaMark

Further proof that there is no higher power... evil bastards like this guy are still around, still making a great living, not in jail, with a trail of corpses in his wake....

*Oliver North, Reagan aide implicated in Iran-Contra, to be new NRA president*










The National Rifle Association has chosen Oliver North, the disgraced marine officer who was one of the most public faces of America’s 1980s Iran-Contra arms scandal, to become its next president.

** * **

The NRA chief executive, Wayne LaPierre, hailed North as “a legendary warrior for American freedom, a gifted communicator and skilled leader”.

The NRA has not had a bold-faced name as its president since the actor Charlton Heston was in the position. The organization indicated it was looking for a prominent person “in these extraordinary times”. That presumably alluded to the grassroots campaign for stricter gun control laws that erupted after the high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, in February, led by surviving students, and other issues facing the NRA.

North, a national security aide in the Reagan-Bush administration, was convicted in 1989 on three felony counts connected to the Iran-Contra controversy. This involved the United States government secretly selling arms to Iran, in breach of an embargo at the time. The dual purpose was to coax the Iranian regime to free US hostages while using the proceeds to skirt a ban and fund Contra guerrillas who were fighting the leftwing government in Nicaragua. North’s convictions were later overturned on a technicality.










(The Guardian UK)​
*RELATED:*


----------



## Macfury

What's that? All convictions overturned in 1990 through the effort of the American Civil Liberties Union? Yes!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Further proof that there is no higher power... evil bastards like this guy are still around, still making a great living, not in jail, with a trail of corpses in his wake....
> 
> 
> 
> *Oliver North, Reagan aide implicated in Iran-Contra, to be new NRA president*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The National Rifle Association has chosen Oliver North, the disgraced marine officer who was one of the most public faces of America’s 1980s Iran-Contra arms scandal, to become its next president.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **
> 
> 
> 
> The NRA chief executive, Wayne LaPierre, hailed North as “a legendary warrior for American freedom, a gifted communicator and skilled leader”.
> 
> 
> 
> The NRA has not had a bold-faced name as its president since the actor Charlton Heston was in the position. The organization indicated it was looking for a prominent person “in these extraordinary times”. That presumably alluded to the grassroots campaign for stricter gun control laws that erupted after the high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, in February, led by surviving students, and other issues facing the NRA.
> 
> 
> 
> North, a national security aide in the Reagan-Bush administration, was convicted in 1989 on three felony counts connected to the Iran-Contra controversy. This involved the United States government secretly selling arms to Iran, in breach of an embargo at the time. The dual purpose was to coax the Iranian regime to free US hostages while using the proceeds to skirt a ban and fund Contra guerrillas who were fighting the leftwing government in Nicaragua. North’s convictions were later overturned on a technicality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The Guardian UK)​
> 
> 
> *RELATED:*




I remember that was when I first learned what pleading the fifth meant.


----------



## Macfury

It was your good fortune, then, to experience the Reagan era!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I remember that was when I first learned what pleading the fifth meant.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> What's that? All convictions overturned in 1990 through the effort of the American Civil Liberties Union? Yes!


A technicality, which while getting him off the legal hook, does nothing to wipe out the death and destruction for which he is responsible.


----------



## Macfury

You idolize murderer Fidel Castro! Why get your underpants in a knot over North?



CubaMark said:


> A technicality, which while getting him off the legal hook, does nothing to wipe out the death and destruction for which he is responsible.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You idolize murderer Fidel Castro! Why get your underpants in a knot over North?


That you would make such a ridiculous statement shows that no answer one could offer would penetrate your ideological RDF.


----------



## Macfury

I remember your ideological justification-- Castro's murder victims _deserved_ to be murdered. By all means, embrace that system, but don't attempt to sweep its inherent violence under the rug.



CubaMark said:


> That you would make such a ridiculous statement shows that no answer one could offer would penetrate your ideological RDF.


----------



## FeXL

Kinda like a certain past resident of Gitmo, no? Including a $10.5 million cheque financed by the taxpayers of Canada. Ar least North earned his...



CubaMark said:


> Further proof that there is no higher power... evil bastards like this guy are still around, still making a great living, not in jail, with a trail of corpses in his wake....


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

Another Progressive politician proves it's, "Do as I say, not as I do...".

New York AG Eric Schneiderman Resigns After Four Women Accuse Him of Physical and Sexual Violence



> He's pushed himself as a champion of the #MeToo movement.
> 
> We should just take men tweeting "MeToo" as an admission.
> 
> _Eric Schneiderman, New York's attorney general, has long been a liberal Democratic champion of women's rights, and recently he has become an outspoken figure in the #MeToo movement against sexual harassment. As New York State's highest-ranking law-enforcement officer, Schneiderman, who is sixty-three, has used his authority to take legal action against the disgraced film mogul Harvey Weinstein, and to demand greater compensation for the victims of Weinstein's alleged sexual crimes. Last month, when the Times and this magazine were awarded a joint Pulitzer Prize for coverage of sexual harassment, Schneiderman issued a congratulatory tweet, praising "the brave women and men who spoke up about the sexual harassment they had endured at the hands of powerful men." Without these women, he noted, "there would not be the critical national reckoning under way."_​


More:



> More: Guess that party.
> 
> _Pretty remarkable: Washington Post, Axios, CNN, NBC News, LA Times, Politico NY -- *not a single one of these news outlets mentioned Eric Schneiderman's party affiliation in their breaking news alerts.* pic.twitter.com/rloGE8ywA8
> — Matt Wolking (@MattWolking) May 8, 2018_​


Bold mine.

Curiouser & curiouser...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I remember your ideological justification-- Castro's murder victims _deserved_ to be murdered. By all means, embrace that system, but don't attempt to sweep its inherent violence under the rug.


That could be the visceral "in real life" basis of one aspect of internet culture. My side "calls out" people who had it coming, but your side harasses innocent victims. For shame. 

Any remote concept of justice is tossed in the name of political ideology.


----------



## CubaMark

Beej said:


> That could be the visceral "in real life" basis of one aspect of internet culture. My side "calls out" people who had it coming, but your side harasses innocent victims. For shame.
> 
> Any remote concept of justice is tossed in the name of political ideology.


...which in no way applies to this little tête-a-tête with MF.

Assuming MF refers to the executions of criminals following public trials in the year following the triumph of the Revolution, we'll have to agree to disagree on the legitimacy. If he's referring to something else, he should elaborate.

But comparing post-Revolutionary Cuba with the murderous interference by the USA in the internal affairs of Nicaragua, and North's role in orchestrating the Iran=Contra debacle, with repercussions for the people of Nicaragua on one side (massive killing campaigns by US-backed rebels; decades of political instability; a worsening situation for hostages held by Iran; etc.), is a disconnection from reality, but absolutely shows the ideological blinders worn by MF.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> ...which in no way applies to this little tête-a-tête with MF.


We'll see.



> in the year following the triumph of the Revolution





> murderous interference by the USA in the internal affairs of Nicaragua





> shows the ideological blinders worn by MF


Cuba's interference in other countries, including Nicaragua, was less than peaceful. Murderous, even.

Or try for Pinochet's murders versus Castro's year of triumph.

You don't need to carry water for any of these people (or assume they are equally bad). Unless the concept of justice has been tossed and an ideology must be defended.


----------



## CubaMark

Beej said:


> Cuba's interference in other countries, including Nicaragua, was less than peaceful. Murderous, even.


That's an interesting perspective. One might also look at the governments of those countries where Cuba supported leftist rebellions and see them as struggles for liberation and solidarity against military dictatorships by and large supported unconditionally by the United States to further its control over the hemisphere. The Munroe doctrine (briefly interrupted prior to WWII with the Good Neighbor Policy) was one expression of the USA viewing Latin America as "its own backyard" where it could do as it wished to protect (project) US interests. The Platt Amendment is one of the most offensive of US approaches, specifically directed at Cuba.



Beej said:


> Or try for Pinochet's murders versus Castro's year of triumph.


That Pinochet's murders / disappearances, alone and within the region-wide murder campaign known as Operation Condor (initiated by the CIA), could be compared to 1959/1960 Cuba's public trials of criminals, murderers and Batista's henchmen is a rather inappropriate association. The Revolution didn't "just happen" because Castro was such a charismatic leader or brilliant strategist: Cuba in the 1950s was afflicted by rampant poverty, disease, lack of education and opportunity for its citizens, and widely regarded as "America's whorehouse", controlled by the mob and without any say in its own affairs (see the aforementioned Platt). Bastista's government carried out extrajudicial murders and other deprivations of freedom. Of course following his overthrow the Cuban people would want blood of those who wronged them.

But in typical right-wing distortions, those trials and any resulting executions (and jailings) in the 2-year post-victory period are referred to as if they continued from 1959 through to 2018! Blatant disinformation and triggering of anti-Cuba wackos. But it plays well with those who are willing to go along with the narrative of the horrible Cuban dictator.



Beej said:


> Unless the concept of justice has been tossed and an ideology must be defended.


Anyone who has objectively studied Latin American history cannot look at the role of the USA as beneficial. It has consistently interfered in internal political affairs; invaded militarily pretty much all of 'em (maybe not Uruguay....?); supported dictators and perpetrators of genocide, and on the rare occasion when one of those bastardly puppets fell from power, they were given a warm welcome and residency in Florida. That is not a record of justice. If Cuba's support of people who struggled against that reality makes them the bad guy, then someone's moral parameters may need adjusting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

44 for Macfury, 45 for the rest of the world.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Anyone who has objectively studied Latin American history cannot look at the role of the USA as beneficial.


Not beneficial relative to an ideal? Sure, that's easy. Imagined ideals are always better.

Not beneficial relative to a realistic alternative history? A bit trickier to be objective on that one. 

Let's start with a bookend and narrow things down from there.

From your objective perspective, what would the alternative have been without any U.S. involvement? 

One alternative was large portions of central and south America becoming communist, slaughtering and starving millions of their own citizens and preventing them from fleeing (as tended to happen at the time with communism), and becoming stables for Soviet nuclear weapons pointed at the U.S.

That is extreme (ie. maybe not realistic), but narrow it down a bit so I have sense of how you use the term objective.


----------



## Macfury

Trump is white on the outside. A Creamsicle can only melt once, not frequently. With all of the memes available, what would make you even think of choosing one so substandard?



Freddie_Biff said:


> 44 for Macfury, 45 for the rest of the world.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump is white on the outside. A Creamsicle can only melt once, not frequently. With all of the memes available, what would make you even think of choosing one so substandard?




Just to pess you off, mon ami. Apparently it worked.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you've ever ****ed me off. I just kept thinking that the meme could have applied just as well to Rachel Notley and her weirdly coloured mop!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just to **** you off, mon ami. Apparently it worked.


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's talk Barry's Charlie Foxtrot s'more.

Finding out too late that you have cancer — thanks to ObamaCare



> Beware: Many breast- and prostate-cancer patients are getting diagnosed late in the game because of ObamaCare’s skimpy cancer-screening regulations.
> 
> Remember when President Barack Obama repeatedly told Americans that greedy doctors were over-testing and over-treating them, and federal rules were needed to stop it? Now the evidence is in: Some of those rules are killing us.


Shocka...

Related:

The Obamacare Food Cops Are Here



> If you thought Michelle Obama’s departure from the White House meant there would be less government meddling with your meals, you were mistaken. Beginning Monday, Obamacare’s menu labeling requirements became effective for fast-food chains, family restaurants, pizza delivery companies, grocery chains, convenience stores, movie theaters, and any other food retailer with 20 or more locations. Ironically, the uncongenial task of implementing this regulation falls to a longtime critic of the “Affordable Care Act,” Scott Gottlieb. Dr. Gottlieb is now the Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and he’s applying the lipstick to this beast with a liberal hand:


The really great news?

Are Liberals Finally Coming To Grips With The Fact That Obama’s Legacy Is Erased?



> President Trump pulled the US out of the Iran nuclear deal and with that former president Obama’s entire 8-year legacy has been erased in less than 15 months. The problem for Obama is that all of his accomplishments were achieved through executive actions and were easily undone with the stroke of a pen. I know Obama’s an egomaniac, so this is devastating to him, but will the rest of liberaldome finally accept that his presidency was a spectacular failure? Probably not, but it’s fun to see the meltdown.


More:



> I would to first direct your attention to CNN’s Jim Acosta, mostly because he loves the attention but also to a tweet he sent out yesterday:
> 
> Obama policies dumped by Trump: Iran deal, Paris Climate Agreement, Trans-Pacific Trade Deal, DACA, Obamacare Individual Mandate
> 
> — Jim Acosta (@Acosta) May 8, 2018
> 
> At first glance it seems like Acosta has finally come around and is actively campaigning for Trump’s reelection, but in reality the CNN resister tweeted this out as a complaint. To me it’s a pretty convincing argument that Trump is both getting things done and keeping his campaign promises. *Did Obama keep any of his promises?*


M'bold.

Yep. "The cost of electricity must necessarily skyrocket." Or some such...

Related:

Dumping Barry's Malignant Legacy



> Trump and his deplorables are clearing-away the Kudzu of Obama's malignant "progressive" legacy at a faster rate than anyone dreamed would possible.


Yeppers.

This is what happens when you run your presidency with "a phone & a pen". That house of cards can come down pretty damn fast...


----------



## SINC

Sarah's answer sums up the mood of a majority of Americans. What a great response!  :clap:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Sarah's answer sums up the mood of a majority of Americans. What a great response!  :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




A majority of Americans are fed up with Sarah Sanders lying and evading daily on Trump's behalf.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> A majority of Americans are fed up with Sarah Sanders lying and evading daily on Trump's behalf.


And your proof of this is?


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> And your proof of this is?


He saw it on Saturday Night Live.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> And your proof of this is?


Freddie isn't required to present proof. As a card-carrying member of the planet's Progressive society, the only evidence required is that of The Other Guy, non-Progs. And, even if said evidence is bullet proof, beyond question, it's still wrong.

Try to get with the program... :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> And your proof of this is?




Umm....every news source other than Fox.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Umm....every news source other than Fox.


So every news source other then FOX conducted a poll. What were the results?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> So every news source other then FOX conducted a poll. What were the results?


He's waiting for the results to be tabulated & verified as Prog correct on Snopes & then reported on MJ...


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> He's waiting for the results to be tabulated & verified as Prog correct on Snopes & then reported on MJ...


That or he is fullavit.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Sarah's answer sums up the mood of a majority of Americans. What a great response!  :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




And your proof of this is?


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> And your proof of this is?


Oh, Freddie - don't be throwing their words back at them! That's... _unseemly!_  :lmao: 

*And now, this:*

*The Pentagon Can't Account for $21 Trillion (That's Not a Typo)*

A couple of years ago, Mark Skidmore, an economics professor, heard Catherine Austin Fitts, former assistant secretary in the Department of Housing and Urban Development, say that the Department of Defense Office of Inspector General had found $6.5 trillion worth of unaccounted-for spending in 2015. Skidmore, being an economics professor, thought something like, “She means $6.5 billion. Not trillion. Because trillion would mean the Pentagon couldn’t account for more money than the gross domestic product of the whole United Kingdom. But still, $6.5 billion of unaccounted-for money is a crazy amount.”

So he went and looked at the inspector general’s report, and he found something interesting: It was trillion!

* * *​
Let’s stop and take a second to conceive how much $21 trillion is (which you can’t because our brains short-circuit, but we’ll try anyway).

1. The amount of money supposedly in the stock market is $30 trillion.

2. The GDP of the United States is $18.6 trillion.

3. Picture a stack of money. Now imagine that that stack of dollars is all $1,000 bills. Each bill says “$1,000” on it. How high do you imagine that stack of dollars would be if it were $1 trillion. It would be 63 miles high.

4. Imagine you make $40,000 a year. How long would it take you to make $1 trillion? Well, don’t sign up for this task, because it would take you 25 million years (which sounds like a long time, but I hear that the last 10 million really fly by because you already know your way around the office, where the coffee machine is, etc.).

The human brain is not meant to think about a trillion dollars.

* * *​
But the 21 trillion number comes from the Department of Defense Office of Inspector General—the OIG. Although, as Forbes pointed out, “after Mark Skidmore began inquiring about OIG-reported unsubstantiated adjustments, the OIG’s webpage, which documented, albeit in a highly incomplete manner, these unsupported “accounting adjustments,” was mysteriously taken down.”

Luckily, people had already grabbed copies of the report, which—for now—you can view here.

* * *​
_Given that the entire Army budget in fiscal year 2015 was $120 billion, unsupported adjustments were 54 times the level of spending authorized by Congress._​That’s right. The expenses with no explanation were 54 times the actual budget allotted by Congress. 

* * *​
So, pray tell, what did the OIG say caused all this unaccounted-for spending that makes Jeff Bezos’ net worth look like that of a guy jingling a tin can on the street corner?

“[The July 2016 inspector general] report indicates that unsupported adjustments are the result of the Defense Department’s ‘failure to correct system deficiencies.’ ”​
They blame trillions of dollars of mysterious spending on a “failure to correct system deficiencies”? That’s like me saying I had sex with 100,000 wild hairless aardvarks because I wasn’t looking where I was walking.

*Twenty-one trillion.*

(TruthDig)​


----------



## Macfury

Is this supposed to be news about government waste?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> And your proof of this is?


Guess you missed the results of the last election that Trump won, did you? That's proof enough for me and a very public proof at that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Guess you missed the results of the last election that Trump won, did you? That's proof enough for me and a very public proof at that.




Trump got less than half the votes, if you remember. Not exactly a majority.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Is this supposed to be news about government waste?


Interesting the things that do (and apparently don't) get your knickers in a twist.

Not the least bit curious as to where that cash went?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump got less than half the votes, if you remember. Not exactly a majority.


Actually he had a majority of the only votes that mattered.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Actually he had a majority of the only votes that mattered.


Freddie can't let go of the dream to make America more like Venezuela.


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Actually he had a majority of the only votes that mattered.


Heh heh heh .... American "democracy". What a joke!

:lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

*And now, this:*

*White House, EPA headed off chemical pollution study*

Scott Pruitt’s EPA and the White House sought to block publication of a federal health study on a nationwide water-contamination crisis, after one Trump administration aide warned it would cause a "public relations nightmare," newly disclosed emails reveal.

The intervention early this year — not previously disclosed — came as HHS' Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry was preparing to publish its assessment of a class of toxic chemicals that has contaminated water supplies near military bases, chemical plants and other sites from New York to Michigan to West Virginia.

The study would show that the chemicals endanger human health at a far lower level than EPA has previously called safe, according to the emails.

“The public, media, and Congressional reaction to these numbers is going to be huge,” one unidentified White House aide said in an email forwarded on Jan. 30 by James Herz, a political appointee who oversees environmental issues at the OMB. The email added: “The impact to EPA and [the Defense Department] is going to be extremely painful. We (DoD and EPA) cannot seem to get ATSDR to realize the potential public relations nightmare this is going to be.”

More than three months later, the draft study remains unpublished, and the HHS unit says it has no scheduled date to release it for public comment. Critics say the delay shows the Trump administration is placing politics ahead of an urgent public health concern — something they had feared would happen after agency leaders like Pruitt started placing industry advocates in charge of issues like chemical safety.

(Politico)​
*Meanwhile, the national embarrassment that is Flint, Michigan's water crisis continues...*

*Flint braces as Michigan shuts down free bottled water sites*

After Michigan's governor announced the state will stop providing free bottled water to residents of Flint — afflicted four years ago by lead-tainted drinking water — churches and charities said Monday they're bracing for a surge in people seeking help.

* * *​
The church has been handing out bottled water for the past three years, and typically sees about 100 to 200 cars a week. With fewer resources for residents, First Trinity isn't sure what to expect when the cars come through beginning Tuesday.

* * *​
"The country thinks that the water is fine," Quarles added, "but the residents and the city of Flint do not trust what's being said."

The state's decision to close the four remaining bottled water stations comes as Gov. Rick Snyder said Friday that strides have been made to reverse the high levels of lead that were found in the water supply.

* * *​
Residents and local officials criticized the move, noting that many in the city of 100,000 remain distrustful after their water supply was contaminated with lead for 18 months. The contamination happened in 2014 and 2015 when officials of the financially strapped city switched to using river water that wasn't properly treated.

That untreated river water leached lead from pipes into Flint's drinking supply, and later tests showed high lead levels in some local schoolchildren.

The state of Michigan settled a lawsuit last year agreeing to spend $87 million to rip up and replace miles of waterlines leading to at least 18,000 Flint homes by Jan. 1, 2020. More than 6,200 homes have had their pipes replaced so far, Snyder said Friday.

* * *​
The fallout from the contaminated water crisis prompted criminal charges last year against several state officials for involuntary manslaughter after a Legionnaires' outbreak in the Flint area led to the deaths of at least 12 people in 2014 and 2015.

Among those implicated are Nick Lyon, the state's health chief, and Dr. Eden Wells, the state's chief medical officer charged with obstruction of justice and lying to a police officer. 

* * *​
Flint resident Melissa Mays — who filed the lawsuit that led to a court-ordered agreement under which the state and federal governments are paying to replace pipes made from lead or galvanized steel — said she still cooks with bottled water.

"My water stinks. It still burns to take a shower," she told The Associated Press. "There's no way they can say it's safe."

(NBC News)​


----------



## FeXL

Well, it's certainly out of character coming from someone who normally posts pointless, defenceless, CFP's...



CubaMark said:


> Oh, Freddie - don't be throwing their words back at them! That's... _unseemly!_


I'm sorry. Remind me again who was in power in 2015?

And, after all the trillions he p!$$ed away that _weren't_ hidden, suddenly, this is news for Progs?



CubaMark said:


> And now, this


----------



## Macfury

Yep, but he covers this stuff by saying he never liked Obama in hindsight.



FeXL said:


> And, after all the trillions he p!$$ed away that _weren't_ hidden, suddenly, this is news for Progs?


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry, who was in power in 2014 & 2015?

And precisely what did he do to ameliorate the Flint water issue?



CubaMark said:


> And now, this:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yep, but he covers this stuff by saying he never liked Obama in hindsight.


Curious how the view changes in the rear view mirror...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry, who was in power in 2014 & 2015?
> 
> And precisely what did he do to ameliorate the Flint water issue?


He never liked Obama, but his anger about the situation has been festering until today--with a Republican in power.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He never liked Obama, but his anger about the situation has been festering until today--with a Republican in power.


Precisely.


----------



## CubaMark

Tweedledee and Tweedledum... do you both think that your attempts at misdirection of the topic is in any way clever?

The issue at hand is the Trump administration's interference in hiding a public health issue because _optics_. 

Interesting how neither of you show the least bit of concern. But then again, you're both favouring Doug Ford in the upcoming Ontario election, another cut-cut-cut/deregulation type just like Mike Harris, who - how about this for coincidence - brought about the deadliest urban water crisis in Canadian history (i.e. Walkerton)


----------



## FeXL

This issue at hand is why this never hit your radar under Obummer. It's 4 year old news.



CubaMark said:


> ...do you both think that your attempts at misdirection of the topic is in any way clever?


----------



## FeXL

Time to burn my Costco card?

Costco Stores Reject Gun Store’s Donation to Children’s Miracle Network



> Costco stores in Citrus Heights, and Roseville, California, allegedly rejected a $500 donation for the Children’s Miracle Network because the donation came from a gun store.


More:



> SBR owner Rob Adams said his store has given $500 a year to the Children’s Miracle Network through Costco for the past five years, but this year the money is suddenly unwanted.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> This issue at hand is why this never hit your radar under Obummer. It's 4 year old news.


Apparently Obama did attempt to cut military spending... but folks like Republican ghoul Dick Cheney sure were upset at the idea of it.... *(my post from 2014)*

And who else was opposed to this? Why, our very own MacFury!


----------



## Macfury

I certainly didn't believe that military spending should revert to 1939 levels. I'm still on board with that.



CubaMark said:


> Apparently Obama did attempt to cut military spending... but folks like Republican ghoul Dick Cheney sure were upset at the idea of it.... *(my post from 2014)*
> 
> And who else was opposed to this? Why, our very own MacFury!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Actually he had a majority of the only votes that mattered.




Electoral College votes. But the actual votes from the people? Nope. He's a loser.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Electoral College votes. But the actual votes from the people? Nope. He's a loser.


Mr. President!


----------



## FeXL

Attempt? He had his phone & his pen. Why didn't he merely write out yet one more executive order?



CubaMark said:


> Apparently Obama did attempt to cut military spending...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Attempt? He had his phone & his pen. Why didn't he merely write out yet one more executive order?


Or do it when he had a supermajority?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Attempt? He had his phone & his pen. Why didn't he merely write out yet one more executive order?


Guess he wasn't the Secret Islamic Jihadist Dictator President that y'all claimed he was.... :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

I read this earlier today, but couldn't stop laughing long enough to post it... 

*Bolton: Trump Has Unique Ability To 'Size Kim Jong-un Up' So U.S. Is Skipping 'Months Of Preparation'*

National Security Adviser John Bolton on Sunday explained that President Donald Trump was forgoing "months and months of preparation" for his meeting with Kim Jong-un because it would interfere with the U.S. president's innate ability to "size up" the North Korea leader.

During an interview on ABC's This Week, host Martha Raddatz pointed out that the outcome of most meetings between world leaders were predetermined by prior negotiations.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfkhNq-dNqU[/ame]

(Crooks & Liars)​


----------



## Macfury

I don't get the point of your joke. Obama was a weakling.



CubaMark said:


> Guess he wasn't the Secret Islamic Jihadist Dictator President that y'all claimed he was.... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Ummm...care to post a link, any link, where I noted any of those things?

Ya, thought not...



CubaMark said:


> Guess he wasn't the Secret Islamic Jihadist Dictator President that y'all claimed he was.... :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

Sorry, let me fix that:



CubaMark said:


> Guess he wasn't the Secret Islamic Jihadist Dictator President that _*the wacko right-wingers*_ claimed he was.... :lmao:


...I would have thought the association would be obvious....   :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I don't get the relationship between that and his wanting to slash military budgets... only when he knew that he did not have the votes to do so.



CubaMark said:


> Sorry, let me fix that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I would have thought the association would be obvious....   :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I don't get the relationship between that and his wanting to slash military budgets... only when he knew that he did not have the votes to do so.


There isn't one. As if Jug Ears gave a flying fig what any Republican thought.

CM's grasping at straws in a weak-kneed attempt to make the Dems look good & Trump look bad.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> There isn't one. As if Jug Ears gave a flying fig what any Republican thought.
> 
> 
> 
> CM's grasping at straws in a weak-kneed attempt to make the Dems look good & Trump look bad.



Trump has only to open his mouth or write another tweet to make himself look bad. Dems don't even need to lift a finger.


----------



## FeXL

Ftfy...



freddie_biff said:


> freddie has only to open his mouth or write another post on ehmac to make himself look bad. The rest of us don't even need to lift a finger.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Ftfy...


Fits perfectly!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Ftfy...




FeXL doesn't even need to open his mouth or write another word to look bad. His reputation precedes him.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL always puts a degree of effort into his posts, whether I agree with him or not. You, Freddie, do not.


----------



## FeXL

That's what all the bitter Progs say who get their butts handed to them in even arguments with me...



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL doesn't even need to open his mouth or write another word to look bad. His reputation precedes him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> FeXL always puts a degree of effort into his posts, whether I agree with him or not. You, Freddie, do not.



Right back at ya.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Right back at ya.


It's demonstrable that there is effort in my posts. I offer new content. I offer my opinion. I offer context. I defend my position using evidence.

You do not.


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## eMacMan

Again somewhat spotty reporting that has become the norm for the western lamestream media.

It's checkmate for Baltimore's latest police commissioner | The Chronicle Herald

So the new Baltimore police chief has failed to file his tax returns for the last three years. Why did no one ask the extremely obvious question? Did he or did he not owe any taxes? 

On the soused side of 49, it would be very unusual if the taxes withheld did not exceed what he actually owed. If indeed he is owed a refund why on earth should I give a 5#!t if he failed to claim his refund.


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> Again somewhat spotty reporting that has become the norm for the western lamestream media.
> 
> It's checkmate for Baltimore's latest police commissioner | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> So the new Baltimore police chief has failed to file his tax returns for the last three years. Why did no one ask the extremely obvious question? Did he or did he not owe any taxes?
> 
> On the soused side of 49, it would be very unusual if the taxes withheld did not exceed what he actually owed. If indeed he is owed a refund why on earth should I give a 5#!t if he failed to claim his refund.


I get that he should pay his taxes just as we all should Should it really cost him his job though? I know my job certainly is not on the line if I am late paying my taxes or decide to not pay them at all (which I don't). This seems like a private personal matter that is not related to his job or did I miss something?


----------



## Macfury

Even if he was late filing taxes, he should just file them. I didn't understand the problem here either. However, he wasn't fired--he quit.



eMacMan said:


> Again somewhat spotty reporting that has become the norm for the western lamestream media.
> 
> It's checkmate for Baltimore's latest police commissioner | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> So the new Baltimore police chief has failed to file his tax returns for the last three years. Why did no one ask the extremely obvious question? Did he or did he not owe any taxes?
> 
> On the soused side of 49, it would be very unusual if the taxes withheld did not exceed what he actually owed. If indeed he is owed a refund why on earth should I give a 5#!t if he failed to claim his refund.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's demonstrable that there is effort in my posts. I offer new content. I offer my opinion. I offer context. I defend my position using evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> You do not.




You offer nothing of substance. You are FeXL Lite.


----------



## Macfury

You may disagree with what I post... but you have never done so in a cogent fashion.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You offer nothing of substance. You are FeXL Lite.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> You offer nothing of substance. You are FeXL Lite.


And you consider this substance? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

The iron...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You offer nothing of substance. You are FeXL Lite.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The iron...


Did lite "lite" waste another few pixels?


----------



## Rps

Somethings speak for themselves......


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> There will still be some hardcore idiots who will continue the crusade.
> 
> Trump hails House Intelligence Committee report on Russia


*You mean.... like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo?*  :yikes: :lmao:

*Pompeo Affirms, Reluctantly, That Russia Tried to Help Trump Win*

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged -- after prodding by lawmakers -- that he backs the finding by U.S. intelligence agencies that Russia meddled in the U.S. presidential campaign to hurt Hillary Clinton and ultimately help Donald Trump.

Pompeo, who previously was Trump’s CIA director, was pressed by Democrats on whether he accepted that finding during testimony Wednesday before the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“Yes, sir,” he said. But that was only after he initially said the judgment that Russian President Vladimir Putin wanted to help Trump win “was the least confirmed, that is, there was the least support for that” in the report issued by the CIA, the FBI and the National Security Agency in January 2017, a few weeks before Trump took office.

(Bloomberg)​


----------



## Macfury

Wrong again. You are the most incurious academic I have ever met.

Pompeo acknowledged that Russians "meddled" but not that they meddled on behalf of Trump to hurt Clinton. Those statements were made by committee Democrats. It's clear that Russian trolls "meddled" by posting on the Internet--I don't think there should even be laws against that.




CubaMark said:


> *You mean.... like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo?*  :yikes: :lmao:
> 
> *Pompeo Affirms, Reluctantly, That Russia Tried to Help Trump Win*
> 
> Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged -- after prodding by lawmakers -- that he backs the finding by U.S. intelligence agencies that Russia meddled in the U.S. presidential campaign to hurt Hillary Clinton and ultimately help Donald Trump.
> 
> Pompeo, who previously was Trump’s CIA director, was pressed by Democrats on whether he accepted that finding during testimony Wednesday before the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
> 
> “Yes, sir,” he said. But that was only after he initially said the judgment that Russian President Vladimir Putin wanted to help Trump win “was the least confirmed, that is, there was the least support for that” in the report issued by the CIA, the FBI and the National Security Agency in January 2017, a few weeks before Trump took office.
> 
> (Bloomberg)​


----------



## FeXL

Har! You think that's funny?

There's this...ha, ha, ha...this crazy Prog bastard on...ha, ha...this one...ha, ha, ha...this one blog I'm a member of. <snort!!!> He...ha, ha, ha, ha...he believed that...ha, ha, ha...this 11 year old...ha, ha, ha...year old Muslim girl had her...ha, ha...had her hijab cut off...ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...with a pair of <snort!!!> sss...scissors wielded by a white Canadian male! 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!



CubaMark said:


> You mean.... like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You are the most incurious academic I have ever met.


First & foremost, CM is a <spit> Prog. That fact in itself eschews all reason, facts, curiosity, logic, common sense & a veritable plethora of attributes commonly associated with an open, curious, logical mind.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> First & foremost, CM is a <spit> Prog. That fact in itself eschews all reason, facts, curiosity, logic, common sense & a veritable plethora of attributes commonly associated with an open, curious, logical mind.




Bigot much?


----------



## CubaMark

So, North Korea called Mike Pence a "dummy" and Trump ups and quits the Singapore summit.

Read this letter and tell me that it wasn't written by a complete loony. I dare ya.









*Daniel Dale* @ddale8
_Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star._


----------



## FeXL

Kettle, much?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Bigot much?


----------



## FeXL

Ace of Spades' JJ Sefton's _The Morning Report_ is normally a good read. Hits it out of the park today.

The Morning Report 5/24/18



> Good morning kids. As we roll into Thursday, *SPYGATE* is the big story of the day. From Crooked Hillary to Little Marco and everyone in between who got tagged with a moniker, the President just put one out into the public consciousness that is going to stick, nay, be burned into the minds of everyone. And for good reason - because it's the _emmes_ truth. For all who have been screaming for months for PDT to fire Mueller and be done with this, me included, I have to say that the President has played this one perfectly. That opinion crystallized for me only over the past month or so when Stormy Daniels became the latest surefire, mail-order Acme secret weapon that was going to bring down the President. Because as that happened all the talk of collusion with Russia evaporated as the facts came out and reached the American public, despite or in some cases because of the Agitprop Media's doubling, trebling and quadrupling down on it. And while that was happening, the conspirators kept changing their stories in a buffoonish, desperate attempt to preserve even a fig leaf of faux credibility. If it existed at all, it got blown to pieces with James Clapper's appearance with the shrieking yenta brigade known as The View, in which he admitted the existence of a spy within the Trump Campaign, but who was only there to investigate/uncover Russian interference within his campaign.
> 
> Really? I may be a dumb schlemiel who didn't get into the Ivy League, so pardon my Flatbush Avenue, low class unsophistication, but if that was the case, why didn't you have a spy embedded in the Hillary campaign? And maybe I'm too stupid to see the 12-dimensional chess moves, but I thought Trump was openly colluding with the Russians to sabotage the election in the first place. Naturally, Behar and company are too stupid to make these points. In practical terms, this chicken has been utterly f***ed to shreds. They know it, the President knows it, and now all America knows it. And by correctly tagging this horrific episode as Spygate, PDT has once again proven himself to be a master of messaging, as good or perhaps better than Ronald Reagan.
> 
> It all boils down to our national law enforcement and intelligence leadership, with the help of an unknown number of underlings, used their power under the cover of national security, to infiltrate the campaign of a presidential candidate with the express purpose of sabotaging it. And I will add, more than likely at the behest or minimally with the approval of both the outgoing President of the United States and the opposition candidate. To quote Stanislas Kuzawa "_dis is moy-duh_."


Related:


----------



## Macfury

It's right on point. 

I would say Obama's international postures were developed by a quisling at worst, and a loony at best.



CubaMark said:


> Read this letter and tell me that it wasn't written by a complete loony.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Kettle, much?




What bigotry do you think I've shown , O King of Bigotry?


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, if I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand it anyways.

However, if you want a "look here" portal to figger it out for yourself, it has something to do with the "intolerant" portion of the definition.

I'm not intolerant of Progs. In fact, I luvs 'em! The world needs a little crazy here & there, if for no other reason than to keep things in perspective for the rest of us.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What bigotry do you think I've shown , O King of Bigotry?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, if I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand it anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> However, if you want a "look here" portal to figger it out for yourself, it has something to do with the "intolerant" portion of the definition.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not intolerant of Progs. In fact, I luvs 'em! The world needs a little crazy here & there, if for no other reason than to keep things in perspective for the rest of us.




That's a pretty paltry attempt at an explanation. I thought you prided yourself on your thoroughness. Not to mention your hatred of Muslims and immigrants. That's one clear hallmark of bigotry.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Read this letter and tell me that it wasn't written by a complete loony.


Look like the letter worked--N. Korea is back at the table according to recent news reports.


----------



## FeXL

<sniff>



Freddie_Biff said:


> Blah, blah. Bla, bla, blah. Bla-blah.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> <sniff>




Such maturity. You've got the bigotry market cornered, it seems.


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of maturity, Freddie, the adults in the room are having a conversation.

Go back to the sandbox and play with yourself...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Such maturity.


----------



## FeXL

The jokes just write themselves...

Rachel Dolezal Faces Felony Theft Charges For Elaborate Welfare Fraud Scheme



> The former NAACP chapter leader, who resigned after her parents revealed she’s not black, is facing felony theft charges for falsifying docs to obtain $9,000 in welfare assistance.
> 
> Washington state’s Department of Social and Health Services (DSHS) investigated Rachel Dolezal’s finances in March 2017 after the publication of her autobiography on her life as a black woman in a white world — Dolezal is a white woman.
> 
> Dolezal told the department her only source of income was a $300 stipend from family and friends, according to DSHS investigator Kyle Bunge. But she deposited nearly $84,000 in her bank account between August 2015 and September 2017, the department found.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Bwahahahahahahaha!! 

Let's see if the alt-rights get the joke.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

First, you'd have to find a board with "alt-rights" on it...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Let's see if the alt-rights get the joke.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> First, you'd have to find a board with "alt-rights" on it...


Yep. There are people all over the world, who won't laugh at a poorly constructed gag. Is KIm canceling his usual hookers because he will no longer be turned on by Trump's presence?


----------



## Beej

> First, you'd have to find a board with "alt-rights" on it...


I've seen criticism of feminism or post-modern views labelled as "alt-right". Disagreeing with social science theories became something polite company would not accept, for some people.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> I've seen criticism of feminism or post-modern views labelled as "alt-right". Disagreeing with social science theories became something polite company would not accept, for some people.


Yeah, the catch phrase a few years back was "neo-con". Weren't any of those on ehMac, either.

As with all trends that are fact free & baseless, it fell out of favour in due time.


----------



## FeXL

Wait! I thought all fashionable lefties were non-believers? 

Democrats Now Using Jesus Christ To Attack Trump



> Just when you thought that you have heard it all the Democrats prove that they have cornered the market on crazy.
> 
> Taiwanese born Ted Lieu who represents tony liberal Beverly Hills has become a liberal hero in these sick days of social media mobs and the media’s insatiable appetite for click bait.
> 
> Tokin’ Teddy never disappoints and his bread and butter is hating on Trump which is soul food to the soulless zombies of the Resistance. Ted has gotten religion this time and has whipped out the Jesus card despite the godless moral abyss that the left occupies.


More:



> Times are getting mighty strange now that Democrats are even acknowledging the lord and savior.


Yeppers...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yeah, the catch phrase a few years back was "neo-con". Weren't any of those on ehMac, either.
> 
> 
> 
> As with all trends that are fact free & baseless, it fell out of favour in due time.




By your standards, there are no "Progs" on ehMac either. Might want to stop using that stupid expression.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> By your standards, there are no "Progs" on ehMac either. Might want to stop using that stupid expression.


You're a self-confessed Prog--that's the a big difference!


----------



## CubaMark

*U.S. Vice President Henry Wallace in 1944*


----------



## FeXL

Alright, Freddie, I'll bite: Define my "standards". Outline them on a point by point basis.



Freddie_Biff said:


> By your standards...


----------



## Macfury

Good grief--That's President Obama!

Why would the Democrats finger him like that?




CubaMark said:


> *U.S. Vice President Henry Wallace in 1944*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Alright, Freddie, I'll bite: Define my "standards". Outline them on a point by point basis.




You don't consider yourself an alt-right con. Fine. Please stop referring to me as a prog then. We obviously have different interpretations of what that word means. If you refuse, I'll continue to call you alt-right. And I'll still call you a bigot, especially as it relates to immigrants and Muslims.

ETA: you'll get no point by point analysis from me because I'm really not that interested in you. I'd prefer to spend as little time conversing with you as possible.


----------



## FeXL

I'm _not_ alt-right. You _are_, however, a Progressive. That's the difference.

Precisely one of us is using the definition correctly.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You don't consider yourself an alt-right con. Fine. Please stop referring to me as a prog then.


Interpet away, m'boy! Nobody's stopping you. Doesn't mean you are correct.



Freddie_Biff said:


> We obviously have different interpretations of what that word means.


I could care less what you call me, Freddie. Having been called pretty much everything on these boards by one Prog or another over the years, you'd have to dig pretty deep to find new material.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you refuse, I'll continue to call you alt-right.


Like I just noted, call away. I've been called worse by better. Doesn't mean your names are any more accurate than anything else the Progs on these boards have ever called me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And I'll still call you a bigot, especially as it relates to immigrants and Muslims.


ETA? Work w/ me, Freddie. Doesn't that mean Estimated Time of Arrival?

In addition, "You'll get nothing & like it!"

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Right out of Caddy Shack. Thx for the smile.

Let's be honest, Freddie. The reason you won't give me a point by point is 'cause you ain't got one. That's precisely why I challenged you on it in the first place. I call you a Prog 'cause you are one. You call me alt-right because yer striking out at me. Ineffectively, I might add. Therefore, there's no point by point defence to justify your accusation of "standards".

Try harder, Freddie. You're as transparent as the wrap on my sandwich.

As far as your feigned lack of interest, that's a crock, too. I intrigue the hell out of you & I know that because you keep responding to my posts. Several times you've tried to wean yourself & you haven't been successful yet. Wanna convince me otherwise? Put me on ignore permanently. I double-dog dare ya. You can't.

Another thing that frustrates you is that you are unable to merely have a "conversation" with me. You read the polite, yet diametrically opposed, interchange between Beej & I on Globull Warming & asked yourself, "Why can't I have one of those?"

Pro tip: It's because you can't conduct yourself in a mature fashion, ie., "...you'll get no point by point analysis from me...". That's the snotty nosed brat in the sandbox taking his toys & going home, all of which is fine by most of us here.

Go, Freddie. Just go.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ETA: you'll get no point by point analysis from me because I'm really not that interested in you. I'd prefer to spend as little time conversing with you as possible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm _not_ alt-right. You _are_, however, a Progressive. That's the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely one of us is using the definition correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interpet away, m'boy! Nobody's stopping you. Doesn't mean you are correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could care less what you call me, Freddie. Having been called pretty much everything on these boards by one Prog or another over the years, you'd have to dig pretty deep to find new material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I just noted, call away. I've been called worse by better. Doesn't mean your names are any more accurate than anything else the Progs on these boards have ever called me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ETA? Work w/ me, Freddie. Doesn't that mean Estimated Time of Arrival?
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, "You'll get nothing & like it!"
> 
> 
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> Right out of Caddy Shack. Thx for the smile.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's be honest, Freddie. The reason you won't give me a point by point is 'cause you ain't got one. That's precisely why I challenged you on it in the first place. I call you a Prog 'cause you are one. You call me alt-right because yer striking out at me. Ineffectively, I might add. Therefore, there's no point by point defence to justify your accusation of "standards".
> 
> 
> 
> Try harder, Freddie. You're as transparent as the wrap on my sandwich.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as your feigned lack of interest, that's a crock, too. I intrigue the hell out of you & I know that because you keep responding to my posts. Several times you've tried to wean yourself & you haven't been successful yet. Wanna convince me otherwise? Put me on ignore permanently. I double-dog dare ya. You can't.
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing that frustrates you is that you are unable to merely have a "conversation" with me. You read the polite, yet diametrically opposed, interchange between Beej & I on Globull Warming & asked yourself, "Why can't I have one of those?"
> 
> 
> 
> Pro tip: It's because you can't conduct yourself in a mature fashion, ie., "...you'll get no point by point analysis from me...". That's the snotty nosed brat in the sandbox taking his toys & going home, all of which is fine by most of us here.
> 
> 
> 
> Go, Freddie. Just go.




I sure seem to have a hit a nerve there, Mr. Alt-right but refuses to admit it. You don't intrigue me—far from. You're predictable and boring. I don't read the Global Warming thread, so I really have no idea what discussions you're referring to. You're a lot less important than you think you are. Have a nice Sunday.


----------



## FeXL

What nerve would that be, Freddie? The "Freddie's so full of ***** his eyes are brown" one? :lmao:

Here's another pro tip, Freddie. Go look up the definition of alt-right, see if you can pin any of it on me. Good luck with that. 

Wasn't in the Globull Warming thread, was in the CanPoli thread.

Never said I was important. You imply that, by regularly answering my posts & by not being able to put me permanently on ignore.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I sure seem to have a hit a nerve there, Mr. Alt-right but refuses to admit it. You don't intrigue me—far from. You're predictable and boring. I don't read the Global Warming thread, so I really have no idea what discussions you're referring to. You're a lot less important than you think you are. Have a nice Sunday.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> blah blah blah



Yup.


----------



## FeXL

You never disappoint.

One more CFP from our resident school teacher. One can only hope your students get better.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> blah



Predictable as always. M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Three things confirmed:
1) Your penchant for CFP's;
2) Your lack of maturity;
3) Your inability to not respond, despite the fact that you claim "...I'm really not that interested in you. I'd prefer to spend as little time conversing with you as possible. "

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Predictable as always. M'bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Blah blah blah



Always with the last word. Predictable to the end.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Always with the last word. Predictable to the end.


Well that post proves it is YOU who takes that tactic to the max. Bet he doesn't respond. How much Freddie?


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No way. Nosiree...

West Virginia: Public-school students urged to ‘try fasting’ during Ramadan



> By now most of you have heard about the latest shocking case of a public school teaching kids about the religious merits of Islam, this time in Berkeley County, West Virginia.
> 
> The story originally appeared May 17 in the Christian Post. But there is more to this story that has yet to be made public.
> 
> Pastor Rich Penkoski says his daughter, a seventh-grader at Mountain Ridge Middle School, came home with an assignment that instructed her to write the Islamic conversion prayer, called the Shahada, in Arabic, which the teacher passed off as a “calligraphy” assignment.


Speaking of the Religion of Peace, how's that Ramadan Bombathon headcount doing?

Day 14, 69 attacks, 289 kills.


----------



## FeXL

I'm tellin' ya, it ain't happenin'. Not a chance. No way, no how...

Shocking Statistics on Teaching Islam in American Schools



> A retired Florida teacher contacted Clarion Project after we published the article “Why Is This Being Taught in Public Schools?” That piece told the story of a West Virginia parent who was upset after his daughter was asked to write the shahada, the Islamic declaration of faith, as part of “calligraphy practice” in her world religion class.
> 
> What follows is the response from the former teacher – one of several we received this week:
> 
> _Speaking as a retired Florida educator, this has been going on for over 30 years. Not necessarily in writing the Islamic conversion verse and calling it practicing “calligraphy,” but in terms of elevating one religion over all others._​


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Is the guy saying the show should not have been canceled?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Is the guy saying the show should not have been canceled?


To be blunt Roseanne is not noted for being politically correct. Probably the reason the show was ABC's biggest draw.

That said I have been enjoying the reboot, and hope Fox will pick it up. Still nowhere close to Doc Martin as far as acting and script, but better than most of the Hollowood crap.

From what I understand her real crime was pointing out that George Soros was an evil piece of $#!7. Something best left unsaid if you depend on a major network for your income.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> To be blunt Roseanne is not noted for being politically correct. Probably the reason the show was ABC's biggest draw.
> 
> That said I have been enjoying the reboot, and hope Fox will pick it up. Still nowhere close to Doc Martin as far as acting and script, but better than most of the Hollowood crap.
> 
> From what I understand her real crime was pointing out that George Soros was an evil piece of $#!7. Something best left unsaid if you depend on a major network for your income.




I'm not a big fan of Roseanne, but the show certainly had its audience. It's too bad that Roseanne put so many people out of work with a few stupidly chosen words. And she blames it on the Ambien. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

She may be right. Ambien side effects include:



> ...depression, anxiety, aggression, agitation, confusion, unusual thoughts, hallucinations, memory problems, changes in personality, risk-taking behavior, decreased inhibitions, no fear of danger, or thoughts of suicide or hurting yourself.


https://www.drugs.com/ambien.html



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not a big fan of Roseanne, but the show certainly had its audience. It's too bad that Roseanne put so many people out of work with a few stupidly chosen words. And she blames it on the Ambien.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> ....From what I understand her real crime was pointing out that George Soros was an evil piece of $#!7. ....


Um.... no... that's not it at all. Barr's tweet ("VJ" - Valerie Jarrett, former Obama Senior Advisor):










(via CNBC)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> She may be right. Ambien side effects include:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.drugs.com/ambien.html




Well, she certainly committed career suicide.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, she certainly committed career suicide.


I never liked the program before or now. I was given free tickets to a Roseanne live show two years ago and didn't use them.


----------



## eMacMan

That's the official Lamestream narrative. Experience shows the official narrative is usually a lie. 

Furthermore it does seem very odd that the same Lamestream hacks that imply Trump is an orangutan would get their undies in a knot when Roseanne call an Obama advisor something from Planet of the Apes. Bit of a double standard there??? 

And yeah the Ambien gambit does seem a reasonable explanation. I do have my own opinion as to the intelligence of those who take drugs like Ambien, but that's fodder for another thread.



CubaMark said:


> Um.... no... that's not it at all. Barr's tweet ("VJ" - Valerie Jarrett, former Obama Senior Advisor):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (via CNBC)


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> That's the official Lamestream narrative. Experience shows the official narrative is usually a lie.


Is there a recent example of Barr saying something about Soros that you can point to as an alternate explanation?



eMacMan said:


> Furthermore it does seem very odd that the same Lamestream hacks that imply Trump is an orangutan would get their undies in a knot when Roseanne call an Obama advisor something from Planet of the Apes. Bit of a double standard there???


Holy freakin' cow. You really don't see it? In a way I'm hoping that's the explanation, because otherwise you're being facetious, and in this context, that's really quite sad.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!


----------



## Macfury

Oh man, there have to be better cartoonists than that on the left. Mueller is special counsel--he does no sentencing. He can't even prosecute a president. The other problem with the cartoon is that the leftist cartoonist assumes that all patriotism is for suckers. That's a pretty telling indictment of progressives.


----------



## CubaMark

*(Brought to you by that wonderful @RealPressSecBot, which takes Trump's tweets and automatically formats them as proper statements from the White House, revealing in the exercise just how ridiculously surreal is the current state of affairs in the USA)*


----------



## Macfury

I was very pleased with that meeting. Trump has been seriously looking at freeing people jailed for minor drug offenses.

Why was that guy's site not active when Obama met with Jay Z and Beyonce?


----------



## Macfury

It's unbelievable to me how out of touch Obama was with the public. From a new book by his advisor Ben Rhodes:



> He had read a column asserting that liberals had forgotten how important identity was to people and had promoted an empty cosmopolitan globalism that made many feel left behind. “Maybe we pushed too far,” Mr. Obama said. “Maybe people just want to fall back into their tribe.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...hook-obama-‘what-if-we-were-wrong’/ar-AAy2e8N


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Oh man, there have to be better cartoonists than that on the left. Mueller is special counsel--he does no sentencing. He can't even prosecute a president. The other problem with the cartoon is that the leftist cartoonist assumes that all patriotism is for suckers. That's a pretty telling indictment of progressives.




Lighten up, man—you're way too serious.


----------



## Macfury

I simply have a higher standard for cartooning. Good ones make me laugh.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Lighten up, man—you're way too serious.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Freddie, wanna lighten up? Here's a thread for ya.

Wanna talk politics with a good, solid, defensible, political cartoon or meme? Then bring something to the table that a grade schooler can't debunk.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Lighten up, man—you're way too serious.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hey, Freddie, wanna lighten up? Here's a thread for ya.
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna talk politics with a good, solid, defensible, political cartoon or meme? Then bring something to the table that a grade schooler can't debunk.




Misogyny much? You have a strange sense of humour.


----------



## FeXL

Whooosh...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Misogyny much? You have a strange sense of humour.


----------



## FeXL

If? _IF?!!!_ 

Obama was shell-shocked by Trump win, asked 'What if we were wrong?,' new book says



> President Barack Obama was veritably shell-shocked in the wake of Donald Trump's election victory in 2016, and even asked aides “What if we were wrong?” as he struggled to come to terms with Hillary Clinton's defeat, former adviser Ben Rhodes writes in a new memoir coming out in June.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Whooosh...




Whooosh yourself. You reveal a lot about yourself by the things you deem funny.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Whooosh yourself. You reveal a lot about yourself by the things you deem funny.


Whoosh.


----------



## FeXL

Why, yes. Yes, you do.

And, once again, whoosh...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Whooosh yourself. You reveal a lot about yourself by the things you deem funny.


----------



## CubaMark

_I remain astounded that any of you take the things that come out of Trump's mouth in any way seriously... _ :rofl:

*Donald Trump Says Summit With North Korea Is Back On*

President Donald Trump on Friday suggested that his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore may occur after all.

“We’ll be meeting June 12 in Singapore. You people will have to be in Singapore,” he told reporters at the White House. He said he had just met with Kim Yong Chol, North Korea’s top nuclear weapons negotiator.

In long, meandering comments Friday afternoon, *Trump said that he received a “very nice letter” from Kim Jong Un. *

*Later, he said that he had not read it yet: *“I may be in for a big surprise, folks.”

Trump said he hoped the meeting would be “ultimately successful” but said he did not expect concrete results, like North Korea’s denuclearization, stressing that the meeting is “the start of a process.”

“Remember what I say, we will see what we will see,” he said.

(HuffPo)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _I remain astounded that any of you take the things that come out of Trump's mouth in any way seriously... _ :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald Trump Says Summit With North Korea Is Back On*
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump on Friday suggested that his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore may occur after all.
> 
> 
> 
> “We’ll be meeting June 12 in Singapore. You people will have to be in Singapore,” he told reporters at the White House. He said he had just met with Kim Yong Chol, North Korea’s top nuclear weapons negotiator.
> 
> 
> 
> In long, meandering comments Friday afternoon, *Trump said that he received a “very nice letter” from Kim Jong Un. *
> 
> 
> 
> *Later, he said that he had not read it yet: *“I may be in for a big surprise, folks.”
> 
> 
> 
> Trump said he hoped the meeting would be “ultimately successful” but said he did not expect concrete results, like North Korea’s denuclearization, stressing that the meeting is “the start of a process.”
> 
> 
> 
> “Remember what I say, we will see what we will see,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> (HuffPo)​



Wait eight minutes to see if his story changes again.


----------



## Macfury

I remain astounded that Trump is getting such good results.



CubaMark said:


> _I remain astounded that any of you take the things that come out of Trump's mouth in any way seriously... _ :rofl:
> 
> *Donald Trump Says Summit With North Korea Is Back On*
> 
> President Donald Trump on Friday suggested that his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore may occur after all.
> 
> “We’ll be meeting June 12 in Singapore. You people will have to be in Singapore,” he told reporters at the White House. He said he had just met with Kim Yong Chol, North Korea’s top nuclear weapons negotiator.
> 
> In long, meandering comments Friday afternoon, *Trump said that he received a “very nice letter” from Kim Jong Un. *
> 
> *Later, he said that he had not read it yet: *“I may be in for a big surprise, folks.”
> 
> Trump said he hoped the meeting would be “ultimately successful” but said he did not expect concrete results, like North Korea’s denuclearization, stressing that the meeting is “the start of a process.”
> 
> “Remember what I say, we will see what we will see,” he said.
> 
> (HuffPo)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I remain astounded that Trump is getting such good results.


You may be the only person (after Trump himself) who thinks that putting him in the same room as Kim for "negotiations" is a good idea.

Two maniacs with nuclear arsenals at their disposal.

:yikes:


----------



## Macfury

Trump is not a maniac and I'm not sure Kim is either. 



CubaMark said:


> You may be the only person (after Trump himself) who thinks that putting him in the same room as Kim for "negotiations" is a good idea.
> 
> Two maniacs with nuclear arsenals at their disposal.
> 
> :yikes:


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> You may be the only person (after Trump himself) who thinks that putting him in the same room as Kim for "negotiations" is a good idea.
> 
> Two maniacs with nuclear arsenals at their disposal.
> 
> :yikes:


Seems to me that thinking of either as a maniac requires believing what the Lamestream propaganda mill spews forth. Belief in the Lamestream is almost never a good idea. 

Remember they were the ones who assured us Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was on the verge of getting nukes. Both bald faced lies intended to bleed Americans dry to fuel the MIC madness. Not to mention the various Syrian chemical weapons episodes that magically happen whenever the US tries to pull its butt out of Syria. The last one has been so completely debunked that even die hard neo-cons are having their doubts.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Remember they were the ones who assured us Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was on the verge of getting nukes.


I think you're confusing "the lamestream media" with George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney, et al. The "lamestream media" repeated the lies of the government. There was ample alternative media that called the official line into question, and then debunked it. 

I have no doubt that media outlets intentionally mislead the public - anyone who thinks Operation Mockingbird
had no staying power beyond the 1950s is naïve in the extreme. What's interesting is how both sides believe the media that contradicts their views is lying, while the one that confirms their views is telling the god's honest truth....


----------



## Macfury

I wish certain things were true, but no amount of media coverage on any side would convince me that they are.


----------



## smashedbanana

CubaMark said:


> I think you're confusing "the lamestream media" with George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney, et al.


Put Paul Wolfowitz and his Pax Americana to the front of that list.


----------



## FeXL

Yer right.

'Tis far better to just let Kim run about unfettered. 

Let me guess. You acknowledge the plight of the poor Iranians & their nukes, too...



CubaMark said:


> You may be the only person (after Trump himself) who thinks that putting him in the same room as Kim for "negotiations" is a good idea.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yer right.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Tis far better to just let Kim run about unfettered.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me guess. You acknowledge the plight of the poor Iranians & their nukes, too...




Whoosh.


----------



## Rps

At first I thought this was a con job until I found it on some other sources. Now I know many have been taken in before, but if this is true you gotta shake your head at how weird politics have gone south of the border...

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...ndidate-pedophile_us_5b10916de4b0d5e89e1e4824


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> At first I thought this was a con job until I found it on some other sources. Now I know many have been taken in before, but if this is true you gotta shake your head at how weird politics have gone south of the border...
> 
> https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...ndidate-pedophile_us_5b10916de4b0d5e89e1e4824


:yikes: _I can't even..... _


----------



## FeXL

Get a grip, Freddie. Yer the clewless one around here.

Any Prog idiot who thinks it's a good idea to let a Commie dictator with nukes go unchallenged is just another Prog idiot.

'Nuf said.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Whoosh.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Get a grip, Freddie. Yer the clewless one around here.
> 
> 
> 
> Any Prog idiot who thinks it's a good idea to let a Commie dictator with nukes go unchallenged is just another Prog idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Nuf said.




Who said it's a good idea? It's that Trump is the wrong guy to negotiate a peace deal. Pay attention.


----------



## Macfury

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did such a stand-up job as negotiators with NK, it's hard to top them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said it's a good idea? It's that Trump is the wrong guy to negotiate a peace deal. Pay attention.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said it's a good idea? It's that Trump is the wrong guy to negotiate a peace deal. Pay attention.


Anyone who takes the US at its word when negotiating a peace deal is an idiot. Makes no difference who the president is. Ask any band of American Indians, ask Iran, .........................................................................................................................


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Anyone who takes the US at its word when negotiating a peace deal is an idiot. Makes no difference who the president is. Ask any band of American Indians, ask Iran, .........................................................................................................................




You have a point there.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> You have a point there.


I think timing is the real issue. All countries try to push the envelope. After WW2, Russia pushed, the Allies relented and thus the Wall was built and a country became emboldened. With anyone who wants nukes you don’t wait until the are almost operational....you whack them with a colossal “no means no”. But this has to come from the UN, not a single nation ( read U.S. ). That said the UN is a waste of time, money and actually encourages hostile actions by its inaction....if I were the PM we would be out of it tomorrow.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> With anyone who wants nukes you don’t wait until the are almost operational....you whack them with a colossal “no means no”.


Thank you.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Hillary Clinton Is ‘Horrified’ By Trump Enforcing Immigration Law



> Hillary Clinton is often horrified. Not at anything illegal she or her husband have done, but mostly at things Trump-related. Could it be because he kicked her ass in the election? Probably. She was “horrified” when Trump wouldn’t say whether or not he would accept the results of the election and now Hillary has gone on a year and a half world tour not accepting the results of the election. The newest thing to horrify Hillary is Trump enforcing our nation’s immigration laws.


----------



## FeXL

Nails it.

Dear Ex-Friends in #TheResistance



> You have learned all kinds of new things that those of us who didn’t willfully ignore politics for the past eight years already knew. For example, we already knew that illegal immigrants were being deported and families were being separated. We already knew about misconduct at the Environmental Protection Agency. We already knew that politicians gerrymander congressional districts for favorable election outcomes. We already knew that citizens from certain countries had restricted access here.
> 
> But American politics became a whole new thing for you.
> 
> Some of your behavior has been kinda cute. It was endearing to watch you become experts on the Logan Act, the Hatch Act, the Second Amendment, the 25th Amendment, and the Emoluments Clause. You developed a new crush on Mitt Romney after calling him a “sexist” for having “binders full of women.” You longed for a redux of the presidency of George W. Bush, a man you once wanted imprisoned for war crimes. Ditto for John McCain. You embraced people like Bill Kristol and David Frum without knowing anything about their histories of shotgunning the Iraq War.


Read the whole article.


----------



## FeXL

Nixon was a piker.

POLITICIZING THE FBI: How James Comey Succeeded Where Richard Nixon Failed



> Comey knew that the Steele dossier was opposition research trash, but premised an investigation on it. After originally failing, without the false dossier, to obtain a FISA warrant to surveil the Trump campaign, he used the Dossier to obtain FBI warrants to eavesdrop on an opponent he had admittedly loathed. Rather than separating his bureau from Steele, Comey agreed to hire him, pulling out of the deal only because Steele became vulnerable as a proven leaker and liar. Comey’s entire leadership team, including number-two man Andrew McCabe, counterintelligence chief Strzok and legal counsel Lisa Page, all seemed to have been involved in framing Trump, working with partisan CIA Director John Brennan. When Strzok was being candid with his lover Page, he later resisted joining the Special Counsel’s Russian probe because he knew “there was no there there.” Did Comey inform Rosenstein of the vacuity of the charges on which the appointment of Mueller was based? We doubt it.
> 
> Baseless claims did not stop Comey. He tried to use the salacious allegations as leverage against Trump in his January 6, 2017 meeting with the president-elect, concealing their partisan provenance and lack of credibility. Part of the meeting’s purpose was to give DNI James Clapper a news “hook” to leak the dossier’s claims to CNN, which dutifully trashed Trump, and provided Buzzfeed an excuse to smear Trump by publishing the whole megillah. Comey then began making book on his new boss, writing four memos to use as ammunition against him in the future. But all of this, it now turns out, is not the entirety of the iceberg, as it seemed just days ago.
> 
> It is now coming to light that the FBI was setting up Trump ever since he became a likely presidential nominee. In late 2015, Brennan embraced a false tip from Estonia that Putin was seeking to support Trump financially, and brought Comey into an ‘intra-agency” group targeting Trump. On March 21, 2016, candidate Trump met with The Washington Post editorial board, which asked about his foreign policy credentials. To bolster his team’s strength, perhaps inflationarily, he named lowly, clueless hangers-on George Papadopoulos and Carter Page as part of his team with Russian experience — literally true, but nonetheless a strenuous stretch. It was then that the entrapping forces of Comey, Clapper, and Brennan, partisans all, went to work.


----------



## FeXL

A good start.

Trump Has Cut Federal Payroll by 24,000 Jobs



> The federal government cut 3,000 jobs in May and federal employment has now dropped by 24,000 since President Donald Trump took office, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Imagine being an actor whose only claim to fame is "also starring" in a TV series that was canceled in the 1960s.


----------



## FeXL

Yer absolutely, 100% correct. No, really.

We should send in Juthdin, with a pair of socks freshly darned for the occasion. Might I suggest a mushroom cloud? The guy who thinks that an increase on tariffs on ketchup, pickles & felt pens (let's not forget the victimhood whining...) is an appropriate response to increased US tariffs on steel & aluminum. The guy who thinks it's wise to spend $4.5 billion on a company that he could have had for free, and thinks that he can somehow muster enough interest in a dead end street to make a profit off it. The guy who thinks that attempting to instill SJW issues into a free trade agreement is a path worth pursuing? I could go on but merely knowing that my cat (the stupid one, mind you) could negotiate better than The Hairdo is enough for me.

Think about this, Freddie: Who got Kim to talk about a potential disarmament in the first place? Who better to continue the discussion? Pay attention, indeed...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said it's a good idea? It's that Trump is the wrong guy to negotiate a peace deal. Pay attention.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yer absolutely, 100% correct. No, really.
> 
> 
> 
> We should send in Juthdin, with a pair of socks freshly darned for the occasion. Might I suggest a mushroom cloud? The guy who thinks that an increase on tariffs on ketchup, pickles & felt pens (let's not forget the victimhood whining...) is an appropriate response to increased US tariffs on steel & aluminum. The guy who thinks it's wise to spend $4.5 billion on a company that he could have had for free, and thinks that he can somehow muster enough interest in a dead end street to make a profit off it. The guy who thinks that attempting to instill SJW issues into a free trade agreement is a path worth pursuing? I could go on but merely knowing that my cat (the stupid one, mind you) could negotiate better than The Hairdo is enough for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Think about this, Freddie: Who got Kim to talk about a potential disarmament in the first place? Who better to continue the discussion? Pay attention, indeed...



If you think Kim has any intention of disarming, you really don't know Kim. Trump can say whatever he wants (and often does).


----------



## Macfury

I'll bite--how do you know this Freddie? Inside information?



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you think Kim has any intention of disarming, you really don't know Kim. Trump can say whatever he wants (and often does).


----------



## FeXL

I don't know if he does or not.

Hope springs eternal.

Frankly, you don't have a clew, either.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you think Kim has any intention of disarming, you really don't know Kim. Trump can say whatever he wants (and often does).


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> If you think Kim has any intention of disarming, you really don't know Kim. Trump can say whatever he wants (and often does).


So are you advocating armed conflict instead of talking with him? I agree he is nuts and never thought he would even agree to meet anyone let alone the President of the United States. That is something right there that is worth pursuing and seeing where it goes. 

On a side note I wonder if Kim has a sense of humour, I loved that giant letter he sent to Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I'll bite--how do you know this Freddie? Inside information?


Hell, he's another Prog mind reader! Just like CM...


----------



## FeXL

Congratulations, FB'ers!

Facebook let SIXTY companies, including Apple and Amazon, have 'deep access personal data about users and their friends - and the controversial deals are STILL in place'



> Facebook gave at least 60 device makers access to its users' information, potentially in conflict with what the company told Congress, a new report has revealed.
> 
> Many of the partnerships, with companies such as Apple, Amazon, BlackBerry, Microsoft and Samsung, remain in effect even after Facebook began to quietly unwind them in April, according to a lengthy report in the New York Times.
> 
> Under some of the agreements, device makers could access the data of users' friends, even if they believed that they had barred sharing, the Times reported citing company officials. The latest revelation affects every Facebook user worldwide.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'll bite--how do you know this Freddie? Inside information?




Past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour, mon ami. Has he ever disarmed before?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> So are you advocating armed conflict instead of talking with him? I agree he is nuts and never thought he would even agree to meet anyone let alone the President of the United States. That is something right there that is worth pursuing and seeing where it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note I wonder if Kim has a sense of humour, I loved that giant letter he sent to Trump.



It's ego versus ego. Just really a photo op for both of them. I doubt that anything substantial will come of it. What is it—eight days away now? Is there any sort of plan about how this meeting will unfold?


----------



## Macfury

Absolutely no plan--just two crazy kids meeting with no agenda.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It's ego versus ego. Just really a photo op for both of them. I doubt that anything substantial will come of it. What is it—eight days away now? Is there any sort of plan about how this meeting will unfold?


----------



## CubaMark

_*The surreal - it's overwhelming....*_ :lmao:



*Related:* _The DOJ ruled 44 years ago that the president cannot pardon himself_


----------



## Macfury

The poorly researched post--it's overwhelming. Trump is right and you are not. You can't pardon yourself following a full impeachment. Prior to that, you can.



CubaMark said:


> _*The surreal - it's overwhelming....*_ :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:* _The DOJ ruled 44 years ago that the president cannot pardon himself_


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Maybe you could accentuate the features a little more Freddie--then the awesomeness of your racial stereotyping could be even more offensive.

But why is your joke about a trade deal instead of a military disarmament deal? Mixed up tonight?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The poorly researched post--it's overwhelming. Trump is right and you are not. You can't pardon yourself following a full impeachment. Prior to that, you can.


You're missing the point.

What kind of President goes off and talks about pardoning themselves? How would one even be in the position where they would think, "Hey, I think I'll tweet about a self-pardon!"?

It's ludicrous.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

It's part of the game with Mueller--and I think he's playing it well.



CubaMark said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> What kind of President goes off and talks about pardoning themselves? How would one even be in the position where they would think, "Hey, I think I'll tweet about a self-pardon!"?
> 
> It's ludicrous.
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of President goes off and talks about pardoning themselves? How would one even be in the position where they would think, "Hey, I think I'll tweet about a self-pardon!"?
> 
> 
> 
> It's ludicrous.
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:




Wouldn't he have to have committed a crime first before he could pardon himself anyway?


----------



## Macfury

No. He needs only to be accused of a crime. 

Are you being obtuse for the fun of it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wouldn't he have to have committed a crime first before he could pardon himself anyway?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No. He needs only to be accused of a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you being obtuse for the fun of it?




People that have not committed crimes have no need of being pardoned. Obtuse yourself.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> People that have not committed crimes have no need of being pardoned. Obtuse yourself.


*President Ford issued a presidential pardon (Proclamation 4311) on September 8, 1974, which granted former president Richard Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he might have committed against the United States while president (Wikipedia).*

Obtuse indeed. Yer dead wrong:

https://www.quora.com/Can-a-preside...-they-have-not-yet-been-indicted-or-convicted


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> People that have not committed crimes have no need of being pardoned. Obtuse yourself.


Given that American Laws are such that if some one wishes to convict you of something you have almost certainly violated at least half a dozen laws in the past 24 hours. The odds of any one in the nation never committing a crime are so close to zero, that you would need an electron microscope to detect the difference.


----------



## Macfury

Exactly. If they want to nail you, they just need to work harder at identifying the crimes after the fact. 



eMacMan said:


> Given that American Laws are such that if some one wishes to convict you of something you have almost certainly violated at least half a dozen laws in the past 24 hours. The odds of any one in the nation never committing a crime are so close to zero, that you would need an electron microscope to detect the difference.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's part of the game with Mueller--and I think he's playing it well.


Related (snort):


----------



## FeXL

Well, I hope he washed his hands after using it for buttwipe.

Schumer, Democrats give Trump list of conditions for North Korea nuclear deal



> Senate Democrats inserted themselves Monday into President Trump’s negotiations with North Korea, handing him a list of conditions for a denuclearization deal and cautioning him not to get snookered by North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.
> 
> Demanding a role in the deal making, Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer and top congressional Democrats said they feared Mr. Trump would cave in at the June 12 summit with Mr. Kim in Singapore in his eagerness to strike a deal.


Question: Why are the Progs suddenly so interested in nuclear detante with the NorK's, all the while Jug Ears encouraged the development of Iranian nukes?


----------



## FeXL

_Gotta_ be one of the good ones if he offends the left so much... :lmao:

German politicians call for expulsion of Trump's Berlin envoy



> German politicians have called for Donald Trump’s envoy in Berlin to be expelled from the country after he said in an interview that he wanted to “empower” conservative forces throughout Europe.
> 
> Ambassador Richard Grenell, who has been in office for less than a month, has caused irritation in Berlin with a series of perceived breaches of diplomatic etiquette.


----------



## FeXL

Job Openings Now Exceed Number of Americans Looking for Work



> _*The U.S. had more job openings this spring than unemployed Americans.*
> 
> For the first time since such record-keeping began in 2000, the number of available positions exceeded the number of job seekers, the Labor Department said Tuesday, a shift that is rippling across the economy and affecting the behavior of employers and workers.
> 
> U.S. job openings rose to a seasonally adjusted 6.7 million at the end of April, a record high, and more than the 6.3 million Americans who were unemployed during the month. Openings had exceeded the available labor pool beginning in March, according to revised figures released Tuesday.
> 
> The figures are the latest sign the U.S. is facing a historically tight labor market....
> 
> 
> The last time the rate was lower was in 1969, when young men were being drafted into the Vietnam War._​


Bold mine.

:yikes:

I'm sorry, it's been a few years since my Econ 1000 course. Remind me again what happens to wages when demand outstrips supply?


----------



## FeXL

There's times I jes' luvs this guy...

With Super Bowl Champs The Philadelphia Eagles Largely Opting Out of a White House Visit, Trump Cancels the Event, Taunts Them 



> With "less than 10" of the Eagles' 81 players expected to show up at a White House event, Trump cancelled the event and trolled the Eagles.
> 
> I don't mind this. I don't understand that rule that _some_ people are required to be polite to people being rude to them.
> 
> _President Trump continued to blitz the Philadelphia Eagles on Tuesday hours after he canceled a White House ceremony with the Super Bowl champions and taunted NFL players by saying there'll be no "escaping to locker rooms."
> 
> *"We will proudly be playing the National Anthem and other wonderful music celebrating our Country today at 3 P.M., The White House, with the United States Marine Band and the United States Army Chorus," he posted on his Twitter account. "Honoring America! NFL, no escaping to Locker Rooms!"*_​


Bold mine.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Nah...

Chris Matthews Rips Democrats as "A Party of Attitude and Elitism"



> Well, _yeah_.
> 
> He made these comments on Morning Joe, aka Cuck Parade.
> 
> _By Douglas Ernst -- The Washington Times -- Tuesday, June 5, 2018
> 
> ...
> 
> "There are real liberals, and there are phonies," Mr. Matthews said. "They're pie in the sky. They're always looking to the middle distance. They think they're better than everybody. They went to Yale Law, whatever. Whatever they got, they claim they're better than everybody. A true democrat, lower case 'd,' thinks they’re no better than anybody else. That's what a Democrat is."_​


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more.

Obama-era license aimed to let Iran convert money in dollars



> The Obama administration secretly sought to give Iran access — albeit briefly — to the U.S. financial system by sidestepping sanctions kept in place after the 2015 nuclear deal, despite repeatedly telling Congress and the public it had no plans to do so.
> 
> An investigation by Senate Republicans released Wednesday sheds light on the delicate balance the Obama administration sought to strike after the deal, as it worked to ensure Iran received its promised benefits without playing into the hands of the deal’s opponents. Amid a tense political climate, Iran hawks in the U.S., Israel and elsewhere argued that the United States was giving far too much to Tehran and that the windfall would be used to fund extremism and other troubling Iranian activity.
> 
> The report by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations revealed that under President Barack Obama, the Treasury Department issued a license in February 2016, never previously disclosed, that would have allowed Iran to convert $5.7 billion it held at a bank in Oman from Omani rials into euros by exchanging them first into U.S. dollars. If the Omani bank had allowed the exchange without such a license, it would have violated sanctions that bar Iran from transactions that touch the U.S. financial system.


More:



> *“The Obama administration misled the American people and Congress because they were desperate to get a deal with Iran,” said Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, the subcommittee’s chairman.*


Bu..b-bb...but...THE RUSSKIES!!!

Related:

Obama Secretly Lifted Financial Sanctions, Asked American Banks to Help Iran Convert Its Currency to Dollars, to Further Bend Over for the Mullahs



> Via Jazz Shaw at Hot Air, AP reports that Obama secretly gave Iran permission to begin moving its money through the banking system, despite sanctions forbidding it to do so.
> 
> Obama did this, of course, to try to appease the Iranians into accepting the billions he intended to give them for nothing.
> 
> He also did this while denying he was doing it.
> 
> Now, the Iranians did not get to move their money around. Banks feared that this was illegal (which it probably was) and did not imagine that they, like Obama, would be immune from the law. So the banks balked, and Iran was unable to move its money.
> 
> But Obama did give the Iranians permission to do this.
> 
> He had a pen and phone, you know.


----------



## FeXL

Muslims To Protest Trump By Eating Food Outside Of His House



> Liberals have been trying in vain to get rid of the freely-elected President of the United States for a year and a half now, but those crafty bastards at the Council for American Islamic Relations (CAIR) may have finally figured out a way to get rid of Trump for good. *Muslims are planning an anti-Trump protest where, now get this, Muslims will eat food near the White House. I honestly don’t see how the Trump presidency can survive this brutal smack-down.*


Bold mine.

Wai...what?

I think he should respond by cooking some bacon, smoking some pork ribs & shoulder & frying up some pork sausage on the WH lawn.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

FTFY: San Diego DA Candidate Backed by Nazi Collaborator and Convicted Felon Soros Loses Big

George Soros-Backed District Attorney Candidate Loses Big in San Diego



> Liberal billionaire George Soros was dealt a rare defeat in San Diego, Calif., as his preferred candidate for district attorney in that city's race was soundly defeated.
> 
> Summer Stephan, the current district attorney of San Diego County, won by 28 points. Stephan garnered 237,227 votes (64 percent) to Geneviéve Jones-Wright's 134,753 votes (36 percent).
> 
> Soros poured $1.5 million into the California Justice & Public Safety PAC, which was established by Whitney Tymas, a longtime Soros consultant, to bolster Jones-Wright, the _Washington Free Beacon_ previously reported.


This must be part of that encroaching Blue Wave the Dems keep talking about...


----------



## FeXL

On the topic of being called every nasty name in the book by nearly every Prog on these boards.

The Morning Rant



> "Back a few decades ago, opponents of civil rights for blacks were called 'prejudiced', i.e they prejudged individuals based solely on their skin color. Then the Jim Crow laws were struck down, affirmative action programs instituted, and the KKK was marginalized. During this time, 'prejudice' was replaced with the words 'racist' and 'racism'. And the more they were used, the more their objective meeting dwindled away. *Eventually it became just a slur, a smear hurled at an opponent during an argument. Its intent is not to further discussion, but to shut down discussion.* Sooner or later, the Iron Law of Superlatives is going to kick in. That is, if everybody is 'x', then nobody is 'x'. Distinguishing adjectives lose all power to distinguish if they're applied to everything. Meanwhile, 'racist' is being superceded by 'white nationalist' or 'white supremacist' (since 'racist' has lost a lot of its potency due to overuse), which have become the slur of choice among the progs who use it to attack those who aren't white, aren't nationalists, nor supremacists. It's just dirty words that sound real dirty, which is the only reason why they use them. It's the equivalent of flinging poo."


Bold mine.

As the quote notes, those of you who call me racist, Islamophobe, misogynist, xenophobe, Nazi, alt-right, fascist, etc., etc., etc., have no interest in actually discussing the topic. All you are trying to do is shut me down. That throws into sharp relief the weakness of your own argument & speaks for itself.

Carry on. Continue to publicly display the worthlessness of your argument...

PS Interesting that the Groper in Chief made the news on AoS further down the page.


----------



## SINC

Assessing Obama vs Trump. 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...istrations-elites-value-style-over-substance/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> On the topic of being called every nasty name in the book by nearly every Prog on these boards.
> 
> 
> 
> The Morning Rant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> 
> 
> As the quote notes, those of you who call me racist, Islamophobe, misogynist, xenophobe, Nazi, alt-right, fascist, etc., etc., etc., have no interest in actually discussing the topic. All you are trying to do is shut me down. That throws into sharp relief the weakness of your own argument & speaks for itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Carry on. Continue to publicly display the worthlessness of your argument...
> 
> 
> 
> PS Interesting that the Groper in Chief made the news on AoS further down the page.




How do you feel about "bigot"? Most bigots I know do much to earn their accolades, present company included.


----------



## Macfury

What accolades are you offering, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What accolades are you offering, Freddie?




Uh...the accolade was already mentioned, Macfury: the word "bigot." Pay attention.


----------



## Macfury

An accolade would have to be some sort of praise.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh...the accolade was already mentioned, Macfury: the word "bigot." Pay attention.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> An accolade would have to be some sort of praise.


Looks like the learners vocabulary skills are about on a par with his math abilities.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> An accolade would have to be some sort of praise.




Some people would view the attention they get for their bigotry as praise. Some people here.


----------



## Rps

Okay, so to get this thread back on track I’ve posted a link to an interesting article in the New York Times. What ever your view on the paper or the subject it is an interesting and timely read....

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/magazine/justin-trudeau-chrystia-freeland-trade-canada-us-.html


----------



## Macfury

The article misses the boat. Trump knows all of this and the article assumes he doesn't. He simply wants to negotiate a deal that's better for the U.S. and tariffs provide the shock to make that happen.



Rps said:


> Okay, so to get this thread back on track I’ve posted a link to an interesting article in the New York Times. What ever your view on the paper or the subject it is an interesting and timely read....
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/magazine/justin-trudeau-chrystia-freeland-trade-canada-us-.html


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The article misses the boat. Trump knows all of this and the article assumes he doesn't. He simply wants to negotiate a deal that's better for the U.S. and tariffs provide the shock to make that happen.


I don’t think he does. But you are right he should try to get what’s best for America. However one of my rules of government is that “government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect”. It’s just a matter of time.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I don’t think he does. But you are right he should try to get what’s best for America. However one of my rules of government is that “government legislation invariably hurts those it is designed to protect”. It’s just a matter of time.


Only if it is permanent.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Only if it is permanent.


This is true......however I’m at a loss right now to think of one that has been rescinded.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> Okay, so to get this thread back on track I’ve posted a link to an interesting article in the New York Times. What ever your view on the paper or the subject it is an interesting and timely read....
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/magazine/justin-trudeau-chrystia-freeland-trade-canada-us-.html


Thanks for the link. Based on the article, I don't think our government understands what is going on, or how to pick a path.

They should acquiesce or fight with everything. Repeatedly telling the world how bewildered and insulted they are is not useful.


----------



## Macfury

Yes. They need to simply put a deal on the table. Getting other pipsqueak nations to agree that Canada is a really good guy is a strategy for failure.

Trump is also right that Canada's marketing boards are not engaging in free trade. Trudeau should fire back and say that US agricultural supports for corn should also be on the table.



Beej said:


> Repeatedly telling the world how bewildered and insulted they are is not useful.


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> Thanks for the link. Based on the article, I don't think our government understands what is going on, or how to pick a path.
> 
> They should acquiesce or fight with everything. Repeatedly telling the world how bewildered and insulted they are is not useful.


Hi Beej, don’t wish to derail the thread , but sometimes the “do nothing scenario “ works well. With respect to this thread the real culprit here is the lack of trust and bias the Americans have in their news reporting, and their lack of knowledge of much which is not their own history. 

Since I’ve moved to a border town I’ve come to the conclusion that the Americans don’t have a chance of getting clear, unbiased, and accurate reporting. Not to target Fox 
( you can see bias in CNN as well ) but there have been numerous instances where they have used incorrect film, photo shots, and graphs to make their political point.

The creation of cable news channels appears to me to be the down fall of truthful reporting. In many cases I think the best course of action is to just carry on and ignore the bluster.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Yes. They need to simply put a deal on the table. Getting other pipsqueak nations to agree that Canada is a really good guy is a strategy for failure.
> 
> Trump is also right that Canada's marketing boards are not engaging in free trade. Trudeau should fire back and say that US agricultural supports for corn should also be on the table.


That would be a good start but I see no sign of willingness to walk away if putting a deal on the table accomplishes nothing. Just the pretense of not being "pushed around". 

If the U.S. keeps hassling us with "national security" tariffs, put triple the tariffs on their goods and services and let them dispute it at the WTO. Deliberately escalate the dispute instead of letting the U.S. set the terms of escalation. 

If they then put even more tariffs on (e.g. autos), scrap NAFTA and tell them negotiations are over.


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> Hi Beej, don’t wish to derail the thread , but sometimes the “do nothing scenario “ works well.


I don't mind that approach with the occasional issue (e.g. lumber) where it's just part of trading with the U.S. Isolated issues that flare up. That's not what this looks like to me.

We could acquiesce, assuming the next President will undo the tariffs, and slow down NAFTA negotiations hoping to push them past Trump's presidency and hoping the next president won't also be protectionist. Not my preferred approach.


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> That would be a good start but I see no sign of willingness to walk away if putting a deal on the table accomplishes nothing. Just the pretense of not being "pushed around".
> 
> If the U.S. keeps hassling us with "national security" tariffs, put triple the tariffs on their goods and services and let them dispute it at the WTO. Deliberately escalate the dispute instead of letting the U.S. set the terms of escalation.
> 
> If they then put even more tariffs on (e.g. autos), scrap NAFTA and tell them negotiations are over.


Beej, one has to ensure that the response is appropriate or the escalation will overwhelm the process. 

I think MacFury is correct that each country has “protections” it is folly to think that the U.S. doesn’t have punitive tariffs on agro-goods. They whack our marketing boards as a subsidy and they pay farmers not to grow ( which under their tariff laws should be declared an assist ) . The attack if that is the word is to highlight each countries practices ...that way both are shown to share accountability and, most importantly, make the issues transparent to voters on both sides of the border.


----------



## Rps

As a follow up.... this is nice having a proper discussion sharing thoughts without person slamming....


----------



## Beej

Rps said:


> As a follow up.... this is nice having a proper discussion sharing thoughts without person slamming....


You jackass. beejacon

To further clarify on the trade topic, I don't have a problem with the U.S. wanting to renegotiate NAFTA or, failing to do so, ending NAFTA. No deal is forever.

But to use steel tariffs (and to threaten auto tariffs) to pressure us during negotiations is under-handed. Don't let them control how much under-handed behaviour will be acceptable during negotiations.

Or accept being kicked around (even more) as part of the price of accessing U.S. markets. Could be worse, and it pays well. Again, not my preference. I have a two kick limit per decade.


----------



## Rps

beej said:


> you jackass. Beejacon
> 
> to further clarify on the trade topic, i don't have a problem with the u.s. Wanting to renegotiate nafta or, failing to do so, ending nafta. No deal is forever.
> 
> But to use steel tariffs (and to threaten auto tariffs) to pressure us during negotiations is under-handed. Don't let them control how much under-handed behaviour will be acceptable during negotiations.
> 
> Or accept being kicked around (even more) as part of the price of accessing u.s. Markets. Could be worse, and it pays well. Again, not my preference. I have a two kick limit per decade.


+1


----------



## Rps

Beej said:


> You jackass. beejacon
> 
> To further clarify on the trade topic, I don't have a problem with the U.S. wanting to renegotiate NAFTA or, failing to do so, ending NAFTA. No deal is forever.
> 
> But to use steel tariffs (and to threaten auto tariffs) to pressure us during negotiations is under-handed. Don't let them control how much under-handed behaviour will be acceptable during negotiations.
> 
> Or accept being kicked around (even more) as part of the price of accessing U.S. markets. Could be worse, and it pays well. Again, not my preference. I have a two kick limit per decade.


I was thinking that maybe the best way to handle this is treat Trump as a fire. His ego means he always has to be the centre of attention.......so how do you control a fire.....take the air out of the room. I think we are playing into his hands by our responses and coverage...... I would completely ignore his rants and continue on with rational discussion.


----------



## FeXL

What do I think about "bigot", Freddie?

I think it's the same type of baseless, hollow, empty slur from one of the same Prog guys who is fundamentally unable to defend his position that's been prevalent on these boards for years.

That's what _I_ think.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you feel about "bigot"?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trudeau should fire back and say that US agricultural supports for corn should also be on the table.


Precisely. In all the articles I've read on the subject, this point doesn't appear to have been broached even once.

Why not? Wouldn't any informed (I know I'm reaching here...) negotiating team know about American farm subsidies? Ask most farmer's out here in the West about it. _They_ know. Why doesn't our crack negotiating team?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I was thinking that maybe the best way to handle this is treat Trump as a fire. His ego means he always has to be the centre of attention.......so how do you control a fire.....take the air out of the room. I think we are playing into his hands by our responses and coverage...... I would completely ignore his rants and continue on with rational discussion.


This.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What do I think about "bigot", Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's the same type of baseless, hollow, empty slur from one of the same Prog guys who is fundamentally unable to defend his position that's been prevalent on these boards for years.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what _I_ think.




Do you admit your own bigotry towards both Muslims and immigrants?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely. In all the articles I've read on the subject, this point doesn't appear to have been broached even once.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? Wouldn't any informed (I know I'm reaching here...) negotiating team know about American farm subsidies? Ask most farmer's out here in the West about it. _They_ know. Why doesn't our crack negotiating team?




On this we can agree.


----------



## FeXL

Neither. Nor...

Do you admit your basic inability to form an argument to defend your position and, when called out for not doing so, resort to name-calling?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you admit your own bigotry towards both Muslims and immigrants?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Neither. Nor...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you admit your basic inability to form an argument to defend your position and, when called out for not doing so, resort to name-calling?




Identifying someone's bigotry is not name-calling. This sure seems to bother you at any rate.


----------



## Macfury

If someone were to identify your ignorance of common knowledge, would that be name-calling?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Identifying someone's bigotry is not name-calling. This sure seems to bother you at any rate.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

^

Best real description of Trudeau yet. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Did Trump say Trudeau was evil? Didn't see that in the news.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Did Trump say Trudeau was evil? Didn't see that in the news.


Anyone who is destroying our country day by day is evil in my mind. Trudeau is such an ignorant man and hurts us daily. Other than that he's barely just OK.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed. He's a very weak intellect.



SINC said:


> Anyone who is destroying our country day by day is evil in my mind. Trudeau is such an ignorant man and hurts us daily. Other than that he's barely just OK.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

An American citizen apologizes to the Canadian Prime Minister on behalf of his country. 



> There is no satisfactory explanation for our president’s rudeness. He was a bad guest: he arrived late and left early and never said thanks. Worse than that, he petulantly refused to sign the joint communique and pouted because Russia hadn’t been included and suggested that the reason for Moscow’s absence was because of some vague minor incident rather than its armed invasion of an adjacent country. How sad it would be if President Trump’s understanding of neighborliness was patterned after Vladimir Putin’s.
> 
> I hope that our friends in Canada will overlook this singular act of rudeness and disrespect to their leader. Canadians, being who they are, probably will. I also hope that Americans will continue to recognize the rare privilege we enjoy in having Canada as our neighbor.
> 
> For our part, my wife and I are looking forward to visiting Quebec with our grandchildren in August and if the occasion arises, we will offer some words of apology although, knowing the Canadians, they’ll probably just politely dismiss it as a minor incident.
> 
> I am less charitable. Our president behaved badly and although atonement does not come easily to him, it is owed to our good friends north of the border.
> 
> Most sincerely,
> 
> A grateful American citizen.
> 
> Ross K. Baker is a distinguished professor of political science at Rutgers University and a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors. Follow him on Twitter: @Rosbake1


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ology-donald-trump-rudeness-column/688973002/


----------



## Macfury

Pissant Democrat!



Freddie_Biff said:


> An American citizen apologizes to the Canadian Prime Minister on behalf of his country.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ology-donald-trump-rudeness-column/688973002/


----------



## FeXL

It's just that kind of twisted Prog logic that digs you even deeper. Save yourself, Freddie. Throw away the shovel & climb outta that hole.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Identifying someone's bigotry is not name-calling.


Hardly. This falls into the same category as all the other names you Progs have come with for me: pure, unadulterated bull$h!t.

Think about it for a second, Freddie. I've noted before on these boards that all 4 of my grandparents were immigrants to this country. I'd have to be pretty stupid to be bigoted towards immigrants, wouldn't I? I ain't a Prog, Freddie. I ain't stupid...

In the mean time, keep pounding that dead horse into hamburger. It doesn't change the fact that that you can't argue your way out of a wet paper bag & have to rely on name-calling to save face.



Freddie_Biff said:


> This sure seems to bother you at any rate.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

According to Merriam Webster:

Definition of bigot

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Yup. Seems to fit.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Alright, Freddie, let's play your pedantic little game, shall we?

_"a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"_

Freddie, I have often solicited you _personally_ to answer questions or offer your opinion on issues I've posted. If I was intolerant of other opinions, why would I do that? If I was intolerant of of other opinions, why wouldn't I just put everyone who disagreed with me on ignore? For the record, I've never put anyone on ignore, not even the most obtuse, offensive bastards on these boards. Not even you, Freddie. If I was intolerant of differing opinions, I'd just go join another board where there wasn't any dissent. I've never done that. Oh, wait... That was you, wasn't it?

_"especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"_

Awright...well, Islam is a religion, not a race or any particular ethnicity, so that's out. I've noted before that I don't have the time or energy to hate anybody, so that doesn't apply. That brings us down to...intolerance.

Lessee... Am I intolerant of misogyny? Yep. Rape? Uh-huh. Murder? Pretty much. FGM? Definitely. Tossing gays off of rooftops? 100% against.

Sunovagun... You've got me, Freddie. I am _so_ busted. I am intolerant of misogynists, rapists, murderers, child abusers & homophobes. Definitely a bigot.

The question is, Freddie, why aren't you intolerant of these things?



Freddie_Biff said:


> According to Merriam Webster:
> 
> Definition of bigot
> 
> : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
> 
> Yup. Seems to fit.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Dems Complain About Massive ObamaCare Premium Hikes — After Ignoring Them For Years



> Since 2014, Democrats have greeted double-digit hikes in ObamaCare premiums with a yawn. Now it's a crisis that must be fixed immediately. What's changed?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Why would their be a fee for petulance? The fee is for the full day. People don't know how to construct a joke any longer.


----------



## FeXL

Not the borders I had in mind...

Referendum To Split California Into 3 States Gets On Ballot. Here's What The New Californias Would Look Like.



> A new proposal to break up California into three states received enough signatures on Tuesday to make it onto the November 6 ballot. Now all it takes is a majority of California voters supporting it to start dismantling the country's most populous, wealthy and radical state.


Notice how they managed to divy it up so there is at least one major Prog city in each "new" state? This will change nothing for those who are already at the mercy of the large centers (from whence comes the dissatisfaction in the first place), save adding 4 Dem senators to DC.

Related:

Proposal to split California into three states will be on November ballot



> The six-state solution failed to catch on in California, but voters will now have an opportunity to decide whether the Golden State should be split three ways.
> 
> The “Cal 3” initiative sponsored by Silicon Valley billionaire Tim Draper qualified Tuesday for the November ballot, securing the necessary 365,880 valid signatures based on the state’s final random sample, according to Secretary of State Alex Padilla.
> 
> The ambitious longshot effort comes a few years after Mr. Draper failed to qualify his much-discussed “six Californians” initiative for the 2016 state ballot despite spending more than $5 million.


More:



> “This fall on Election Day, voters will get the chance to say that the status quo of ineffective, inefficient, and insular state government is taking Californians in the wrong direction,” said a post on the Cal 3 website.


The iron...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Notice how they managed to divy it up so there is at least one major Prog city in each "new" state? This will change nothing for those who are already at the mercy of the large centers (from whence comes the dissatisfaction in the first place), save adding 4 Dem senators to DC.


Yes, this is why it didn't interest me at all, and why it won't fly in the sensible parts of California. They should have cooped up all of the nutty progs in a single state.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yes, this is why it didn't interest me at all, and why it won't fly in the sensible parts of California. They should have cooped up all of the nutty progs in a single state.


I recall reading somewhere recently an article on the topic & they had another map laid out with precisely that feature. A border somewhat north of San Diego going from the coast east to Arizona, another encompassing all the coastal fruit loops & whackos in a narrow strip extending from LA to just north of San Fran, & the third grouping the eastern, central & northern portions of the state together.

That one I liked. It made sense. Can't recall where I saw it though.

Here are two other versions I just ran across looking for the first one:
One.
Two.

Link two is not bad, but San Fran needs to be in California, not NorCal.


----------



## CubaMark

(@briantaylercohen)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> (@briantaylercohen)




#mathishard for Conservatives.


----------



## Macfury

Trump quote:



> They want *the remains of their sons back, they want the remains of their fathers and mothers *and all of the people that got caught in that really brutal war which took place to a large extent in North Korea. I asked for it today and we got it, that was a very last minute (request). The remains will be coming back. They are going to start that process immediately. But so many people even during the campaign they would say is there any way you can work with North Korea to get the remains of my son back or my father back. So many people asked me this question and I said look, we don’t get along too well with that particular group of people. But now we do. And he agreed to that so quickly, it was really a very nice thing and he understands it, he understands it. So for the thousands and thousands – way over 6,000 that we know of in terms of the remains — they’ll be brought back.


----------



## CubaMark

(duplicate - see below)


----------



## CubaMark

Yup. I'm sure there were lots of 90+-year-olds on the campaign trail that Trump personally met with... 


“We have thousands of people who have asked for that — thousands and thousands of people,” Trump said. “So many people asked when I was on the campaign. I would say, ‘Wait a minute, I don’t have any relationship.’ But they said, ‘When you can, president, we’d love our son to be brought back home — you know, the remains.”

The math seems pretty hard to square.



> My father was a Korean War veteran who would be 90 today. His parents were long gone during the election, as was he. https://t.co/iUKaQNU678
> 
> — Maureen McFadden (@MMcFaddenWNDU) June 14, 2018


Wrote, The Week, “Let’s do the math. Say an American solider was 18 when he was sent to North Korea in the war’s final year, 1953 — he would have been 80 in 2015; if his parents had given birth to him when they were 18, they would have been 98 in 2015. More realistically, the parents would have been well over 100.”
(CBS)​
*Also:*

TRUMP, on families of missing troops from the Korean War: "They want the remains of their fathers and mothers and all of the people that got caught into that really brutal war, which took place to a large extent in North Korea. And I asked for it today. And we got it. ... So, for the thousands and thousands, I guess way over 6,000 that we know of in terms of the remains, they'll be brought back."

THE FACTS: He's overstating the number of missing service personnel and glossing over the surely impossible odds of locating the remains of "all of the people" more than six decades after the Korean War. Of the nearly 7,800 U.S. troops unaccounted for from the war, about 5,300 were lost in North Korea. Several thousand are still missing in South Korea despite its close alliance and history of cooperation with the U.S.

North Korea and the United States remain technically at war because the 1950-53 fighting ended with an armistice, not a peace treaty. But between 1996 and 2005, joint U.S.-North Korea military search teams conducted 33 joint recovery operations and recovered 229 sets of American remains.

The document signed by Trump and Kim included an agreement to work to repatriate the remains of prisoners of war and those missing in action from the conflict.
(Associated Press via The NYT)​


----------



## Macfury

But as he added that he was approached by the sons and daughters of those left in Korea, the potential number vastly increases. My question to you: given the massive lies Obama used to promulgate about policy, is it so important to you to try to catch the President on this?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> But as he added that he was approached by the sons and daughters of those left in Korea, the potential number vastly increases. My question to you: given the massive lies Obama used to promulgate about policy, is it so important to you to try to catch the President on this?



Perhaps you can indulge us with a description of the “massive lies Obama used to promulgate about policy.”


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you can indulge us with a description of the “massive lies Obama used to promulgate about policy.”


Freddie, I would have a discussion like this with others on the board, but you simply have no record of responding to a reasoned argument. You would become "bored" immediately--trust me on this.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you can indulge us with a description of the “massive lies Obama used to promulgate about policy.”




So in other words, you can’t do it. Or you refuse out of obstinacy. How does this make you a better arguer than me? All I see is laziness.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, you're Lucy with a football. If I put a lot of effort into my debates, you'll post memes in response or feign boredom... maybe check Snopes as the arbiter of truth and then call it a day.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So in other words, you can’t do it. Or you refuse out of obstinacy. How does this make you a better arguer than me? All I see is laziness.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, you're Lucy with a football. If I put a lot of effort into my debates, you'll post memes in response or feign boredom... maybe check Snopes as the arbiter of truth and then call it a day.



Lazy lazy lazy. You have no right to criticize me if you can’t even back up your own assertions.


----------



## Macfury

This is what FeXL has accurately accused you of for years. You're the reason he added this quote to his signature:

*“A man has no more right to an opinion for which he cannot account than for a glass of beer for which he cannot pay.” *



Freddie_Biff said:


> Lazy lazy lazy. You have no right to criticize me if you can’t even back up your own assertions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is what FeXL has accurately accused you of for years. You're the reason he added this quote to his signature:
> 
> 
> 
> *“A man has no more right to an opinion for which he cannot account than for a glass of beer for which he cannot pay.” *



As though FeXL is the authority on anything. I back up my opinions all the time. You just don’t agree with what I write. That’s on you.


----------



## Macfury

You express opinions. One time in 100 you try to use evidence-based logic to bolster your opinion, but it's usually not a vigorous effort.



Freddie_Biff said:


> As though FeXL is the authority on anything. I back up my opinions all the time. You just don’t agree with what I write. That’s on you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You express opinions. One time in 100 you try to use evidence-based logic to bolster your opinion, but it's usually not a vigorous effort.




It’s a discussion forum, Macfury, not a presentation to an award-granting institution. Nobody gets paid to be here. You should lighten up a little. If you don’t want to explain even one of the big, bad terrible things you think Obama did, that’s fine. Just don’t preach about how big, bad and terrible he was.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s a discussion forum, Macfury, not a presentation to an award-granting institution. Nobody gets paid to be here. You should lighten up a little. If you don’t want to explain even one of the big, bad terrible things you think Obama did, that’s fine. Just don’t preach about how big, bad and terrible he was.


Gee how bout we start with BO going on television and telling illegal immigrants it was OK to vote in the federal election? IOW he not only lied but urged a group of people to commit what is clearly defined as a crime. 

Maybe the bit about Obama Care allowing you to maintain your current health plan? 

Just a couple of examples but both are extreme whoppers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Gee how bout we start with BO going on television and telling illegal immigrants it was OK to vote in the federal election? IOW he not only lied but urged a group of people to commit what is clearly defined as a crime.
> 
> Maybe the bit about Obama Care allowing you to maintain your current health plan?
> 
> Just a couple of examples but both are extreme whoppers.



I’m not that familiar with the American system or these examples, but thanks for at least answering the question.


----------



## Macfury

You don't accept that these were lies or deny that they were lies--you simply don't know enough about the subject matter. So you are not "that familiar with the American system" when it comes to Obama, but really well-informed when it comes to criticizing Trump.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not that familiar with the American system or these examples, but thanks for at least answering the question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't accept that these were lies or deny that they were lies--you simply don't know enough about the subject matter. So you are not "that familiar with the American system" when it comes to Obama, but really well-informed when it comes to criticizing Trump.



Wah wah wah. If you want to discuss something, then discuss. Don't preach. You're fully capable of it on the Walking Dead thread, but not here, oddly enough.


----------



## Macfury

I'm discussing your basic knowledge of American politics, which you just admitted is minimal. So how does that square with your attacks on Trump... or your oddball support of Obama? Given your admissions, why do you feel confident that your criticisms are valid? Let's have a discussion about that!





Freddie_Biff said:


> Wah wah wah. If you want to discuss something, then discuss. Don't preach. You're fully capable of it on the Walking Dead thread, but not here, oddly enough.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Gee how bout we start with BO going on television and telling illegal immigrants it was OK to vote in the federal election? IOW he not only lied but urged a group of people to commit what is clearly defined as a crime.
> 
> Maybe the bit about Obama Care allowing you to maintain your current health plan?
> 
> Just a couple of examples but both are extreme whoppers.





Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not that familiar with the American system or these examples, but thanks for at least answering the question.


Yikes. The Republibloods were laughed at for suggesting that BO was soft on immigration as illegals would vote Democrypt. We laughed because this is a federal crime with jail sentences, if an AG chooses to prosecute. BO urging illegals to vote is in effect urging a group of people to commit a crime. The lie that there are no consequences is nothing short of monstrous!

The Obama Care lies have been so well documented on this thread that there is no excuse for your being unaware. Unless of course your reading and comprehension skills are even weaker than your math skills.

Just the tip of the iceberg but no reason to go further if your ability to comprehend is that completely paralyzed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm discussing your basic knowledge of American politics, which you just admitted is minimal. So how does that square with your attacks on Trump... or your oddball support of Obama? Given your admissions, why do you feel confident that your criticisms are valid? Let's have a discussion about that!




It doesn't take a genius to see that Trump is an idiot who's in way over his head. At least Obama knew something about government and how it works. Trump knows nothing. He's not even a good negotiator nor a good businessman.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Yikes. The Republibloods were laughed at for suggesting that BO was soft on immigration as illegals would vote Democrypt. We laughed because this is a federal crime with jail sentences, if an AG chooses to prosecute. BO urging illegals to vote is in effect urging a group of people to commit a crime. The lie that there are no consequences is nothing short of monstrous!
> 
> The Obama Care lies have been so well documented on this thread that there is no excuse for your being unaware. Unless of course your reading and comprehension skills are even weaker than your math skills.
> 
> Just the tip of the iceberg but no reason to go further if your ability to comprehend is that completely paralyzed.




There is no need to be an asshole about it, eMacMan. I admit my deficiencies. You could learn some manners.


----------



## Macfury

And you know this because... a meme? And you compare him to which other American leaders of whom your knowledge is admittedly deficient?



Freddie_Biff said:


> It doesn't take a genius to see that Trump is an idiot who's in way over his head. At least Obama knew something about government and how it works. Trump knows nothing. He's not even a good negotiator nor a good businessman.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And you know this because... a meme? And you compare him to which other American leaders of whom your knowledge is admittedly deficient?




None of the above. I just watch him in action. If you watched him with a critical eye, you’d see it too. But in your world it seems Trump can do no wrong. Really doesn’t leave us much to discuss.


----------



## CubaMark

(Twitter)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> (Twitter)




Just wait, Mark: the attacks on your source of information should commence in five...four...three...two....


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

And here comes the flurry of memes I mentioned earlier, part of the typical distinguished lecture series of professor Freddie. 

Of course, Freddie, Corey Stewart has always been on your radar--you're that tuned-in to U.S. politics. And this Tweet-meme only confirmed your long-held concerns about him.

Also amazing the way Progressives such as yourself rely on homosexual stereotypes as a way to cover for your intellectual impotence. But go ahead and keep digging your grave.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And here comes the flurry of memes I mentioned earlier, part of the typical distinguished lecture series of professor Freddie.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Freddie, Corey Stewart has always been on your radar--you're that tuned-in to U.S. politics. And this Tweet-meme only confirmed your long-held concerns about him.
> 
> 
> 
> Also amazing the way Progressives such as yourself rely on homosexual stereotypes as a way to cover for your intellectual impotence. But go ahead and keep digging your grave.




I don't really care what you think, buddy. Your approval means nothing to me. I'll post in whatever way I'm comfortable with, and I imagine you'll do the same. Sorry to hear that homosexuality bothers you so much, but it's not surprising I suppose.


----------



## Macfury

Exactly--that was my point! You don't care what anybody thinks about the norms of discussion, supporting one's opinion, etc. True to form, in the absence of any supporting evidence for your ideas, you lapsed almost immediately into posting memes--the very thing I said you would do if you were asked to support your ideas:



Macfury said:


> Freddie, you're Lucy with a football. If I put a lot of effort into my debates,* you'll post memes in response* or feign boredom...


Doesn't bother me to see you digging your own grave with those gay-themed memes. But what would you tell a gay person who questioned your repeated use of these memes in relation to Trump?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't really care what you think, buddy. Your approval means nothing to me. I'll post in whatever way I'm comfortable with, and I imagine you'll do the same. Sorry to hear that homosexuality bothers you so much, but it's not surprising I suppose.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Exactly--that was my point! You don't care what anybody thinks about the norms of discussion, supporting one's opinion, etc. True to form, in the absence of any supporting evidence for your ideas, you lapsed almost immediately into posting memes--the very thing I said you would do if you were asked to support your ideas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't bother me to see you digging your own grave with those gay-themed memes. But what would you tell a gay person who questioned your repeated use of these memes in relation to Trump?



I care what many people think—just not you. You’re difficult to have a conversation with, and after so many attempts, the effort just isn’t worth it. When I’ve gone to the the trouble of explaining in detail, you’re dismissive anyway. Why bother? You don’t make or break my day. 

The memes with Trump and Kim are meant to underline the bromance nature of their relationship, though I’m sure they would both deny it, but watch it for when “little rocket man” does something to **** the dotard off. Things could get really ugly really fast—and the whole word will be in danger.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> There is no need to be an asshole about it, eMacMan. I admit my deficiencies. You could learn some manners.


Damn good thing I wasn't drinking the morning juice when I read that. In the same paragraph where you show a total lack of class via name calling you're attempting to give me a lesson on manners? 

I do love the irony and deplore the hypocrisy but that does seem to be your style. Anyways when anyone resorts to name calling I always take it as the white flag surrendering their side of the debate.

BTW One more of BO's biggest lies that should not remain unmentioned. Didn't he promise to close Gitmo the day he took office?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Damn good thing I wasn't drinking the morning juice when I read that. In the same paragraph where you show a total lack of class via name calling you're attempting to give me a lesson on manners?
> 
> I do love the irony and deplore the hypocrisy but that does seem to be your style. Anyways when anyone resorts to name calling I always take it as the white flag surrendering their side of the debate.
> 
> BTW One more of BO's biggest lies that should not remain unmentioned. Didn't he promise to close Gitmo the day he took office?


"Unless of course your reading and comprehension skills are even weaker than your math skills.

Just the tip of the iceberg but no reason to go further if your ability to comprehend is that completely paralyzed."

Umm....you were talking about manners?


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> The Obama Care lies have been so well documented on this thread that there is no excuse for your being unaware. Unless of course your reading and comprehension skills are even weaker than your math skills.
> 
> Just the tip of the iceberg but no reason to go further if your ability to comprehend is that completely paralyzed.





Freddie_Biff said:


> "Unless of course your reading and comprehension skills are even weaker than your math skills.
> 
> Just the tip of the iceberg but no reason to go further if your ability to comprehend is that completely paralyzed."
> 
> Umm....you were talking about manners?


Quoting out of context is quite common, it is also another white flag of surrender. You already waved the white flag of surrender once, can't see why you felt compelled to do an instant replay.

BTW you were the one referring to manners, I just pointed out the irony and hypocrisy.


----------



## Macfury

Yep. It's difficult to back up one's opinion and do a little research--I get that. 

But I'm glad that I didn't waste too much time or effort in this latest thread before you reverted to form--anger, memes, boredom, withdrawal, white flag of surrender.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I care what many people think—just not you. You’re difficult to have a conversation with, and after so many attempts, the effort just isn’t worth it. When I’ve gone to the the trouble of explaining in detail, you’re dismissive anyway. Why bother? You don’t make or break my day.


So in order to underline a "bromantic" relationship, you immediately choose to search for images that make Trump and Kim appear to be gay? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> The memes with Trump and Kim are meant to underline the bromance nature of their relationship, though I’m sure they would both deny it, but watch it for when “little rocket man” does something to **** the dotard off. Things could get really ugly really fast—and the whole word will be in danger.


----------



## Rps

It’s sad, but the biggest issue I see with the U.S. is that there has developed a culture of non trust. No one trusts anything, be it the news, the governments, the social agencies. This critical mass has washed over the entire country. You cannot find the truth because people have been taught to not believe it........this, singularly, has tainted almost all discourse...............and it’s even here.


----------



## Macfury

The hijacking of the mainstream news media by Progressives has forced the creation of a secondary system of philosophically aligned news. This is a response to the problem of that leftward swing, not the cause of the mistrust.



Rps said:


> It’s sad, but the biggest issue I see with the U.S. is that there has developed a culture of non trust. No one trusts anything, be it the news, the governments, the social agencies. This critical mass has washed over the entire country. You cannot find the truth because people have been taught to not believe it........this, singularly, has tainted almost all discourse...............and it’s even here.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The hijacking of the mainstream news media by Progressives has forced the creation of a secondary system of philosophically aligned news. This is a response to the problem of that leftward swing, not the cause of the mistrust.


I think you just made my point!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> It’s sad, but the biggest issue I see with the U.S. is that there has developed a culture of non trust. No one trusts anything, be it the news, the governments, the social agencies. This critical mass has washed over the entire country. You cannot find the truth because people have been taught to not believe it........this, singularly, has tainted almost all discourse...............and it’s even here.



I think you hit the nail on the head, Rps. They say the first casualty of war is truth...and it sure seems like we’re gearing up for wartime with the daily assault on truth we see on all sides.


----------



## FeXL

Feel free to quote a single post of yours from these boards where you've explained _anything_ in detail.

Just one.



Freddie_Biff said:


> When I’ve gone to the the trouble of explaining in detail...


----------



## Macfury

That lazy ass will ask YOU to find it for him, just as he asked me to provide proof that he predicted Notley's win on EhMac.




FeXL said:


> Feel free to quote a single post of yours from these boards where you've explained _anything_ in detail.
> 
> Just one.


----------



## FeXL

I _am_ an authority on BS, Freddie.

And, every single time I read one of your posts, the the bell starts ringing & the meter hits "piled high & deep".



Freddie_Biff said:


> As though FeXL is the authority on anything.


Yeah, you do. You take your BS opinions & back them up with more BS.

As opposed to, say, facts, empirical evidence, things of that nature.

Brilliant...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I back up my opinions all the time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Feel free to quote a single post of yours from these boards where you've explained _anything_ in detail.
> 
> 
> 
> Just one.




To you? Why bother? I don’t seek your approval. I’m not looking for alt-right support.


----------



## Macfury

He's grown bored again, FeXL. Anything to avoid supporting his opinions.


----------



## FeXL

I already know the answer. You've shown that on these boards with years of CFP's.

However, to prove your case to your massive fan base on these boards, all waiting with bated breathe for your next hallowed nugget to drop on these pages. You wouldn't want to disappoint them, would you?



Freddie_Biff said:


> To you? Why bother? I don’t seek your approval.


<snort...>



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not looking for alt-right support.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He's grown bored again, FeXL. Anything to avoid supporting his opinions.


Precisely. He followed the recipe you outlined to the letter.

Talk about predictable...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely. He followed the recipe you outlined to the letter.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about predictable...




What a lonely and boring life you must lead, with nothing to but take a dump on these boards every few hours. Well, at least you’re regular.


----------



## Macfury

Does your loneliness cause you to visit here so often Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a lonely and boring life you must lead, with nothing to but take a dump on these boards every few hours. Well, at least you’re regular.


----------



## FeXL

Cfp=cfp +1...



freddie_biff said:


> what a lonely and boring life you must lead, with nothing to but take a dump on these boards every few hours. Well, at least you’re regular.


----------



## CubaMark

18 hours later, and just blah blah blah blah blah of personal insults, and the Trumpites seem to be quite willing to accept that their Dear Leader happily endorses a white supremacist.

Telling.

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> 18 hours later, and just blah blah blah blah blah of personal insults, and the Trumpites seem to be quite willing to accept that their Dear Leader happily endorses a white supremacist.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling.
> 
> 
> 
> .




Don’t expect them to actually respond to what you posted. That would be like...cooperating.


----------



## FeXL

Never even clicked on the link.

If you can't be bothered to place a title or a brief precis or a comment in the post, no, I don't bother.

'Sides, if you were truly bothered by the support of politicians towards unsavoury characters, there was much to choose from when Jug Ears was POTUS & now that The Eyebrow is PM.



CubaMark said:


> 18 hours later.


----------



## FeXL

Consider the source...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Don’t expect them to actually respond to what you posted.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Never even clicked on the link.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't be bothered to place a title or a brief precis or a comment in the post, no, I don't bother.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sides, if you were truly bothered by the support of politicians towards unsavoury characters, there was much to choose from when Jug Ears was POTUS & now that The Eyebrow is PM.



Always an excuse. No good for anyone else not to respond, but you’re somehow immune to the responsibilities of the rest of us. Good luck with that.


----------



## CubaMark

@LauraWBush


----------



## Macfury

Laura Bush was always a big fan of open borders. What's amazing to me is that y'all are having this freak-out when Trump is president, even though he's saddled with a law from the Obama era.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Laura Bush was always a big fan of open borders. What's amazing to me is that y'all are having this freak-out when Trump is president, even though he's saddled with a law from the Obama era.


Do you truly not understand the difference between the Trump policy and that which went before it, or are you intentionally defending the separation of children from their parents?

The former would surprise me. The latter would be truly sad.


Unauthorized border crossing into the U.S. has always been illegal, but previous administrations did not criminally prosecute all border crossers the way the Trump administration has.

For example, in 2005, the Bush administration started Operation Streamline, a program that referred all illegal immigrants for prosecution, but made an exception for adults travelling with children.

The Obama administration used that model as well, but detained families together in Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) custody.

* * *​
The “zero tolerance” policy introduced in May sees adults who try to cross into the U.S. illegally, many of whom plan to seek asylum, placed in custody and undergo criminal prosecution.
(Global News)​

*Meanwhile*, Trump has also decided that two great dangers to America - the MS-13 gang and women and children victims of domestic abuse - are to be targeted at the border....

*Trump administration blocks victims of domestic abuse and gang violence from claiming asylum*

US Attorney General Jeff Sessions has told immigration judges across the country to stop granting asylum to most victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, in the latest step by the Trump administration to transform the way the United States handles asylum cases.

The change announced by Mr Sessions Monday is likely to block tens of thousands of immigrants — primarily women — from seeking safe refuge in the United States who would have been able to seek safety in America.

* * *​
“Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum,” Mr Sessions wrote in his ruling, which is a binding precedent for US immigration judges and relied largely on the notion that these are "private" crimes and do not qualify a victim for asylum in the US. “The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes—such as domestic violence or gang violence—or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim.”

(The Independent UK)​


----------



## Macfury

> “The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes—such as domestic violence or gang violence—or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim.”


What is so terrible about the statement above?


----------



## FeXL

WTF are you going on about?

It's not an excuse, it's the precise reason why I never clicked on the link. If there is no explanation, I never click on a link, no matter who posts it. Why nobody else responded is their business. I don't care.

And this claptrap:

"...immune to the responsibilities of the rest of us..."

WTH does that even mean?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Always an excuse. No good for anyone else not to respond, but you’re somehow immune to the responsibilities of the rest of us. Good luck with that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Blah blah blah


You really are quite predictable.


----------



## Macfury

As if though Freddie ever exercised "his responsibilities" on these boards! You'll note that he's hooked his rickety wagon to the falling star of another person--he's not even talking about his own posts!



FeXL said:


> WTF are you going on about?
> 
> It's not an excuse, it's the precise reason why I never clicked on the link. If there is no explanation, I never click on a link, no matter who posts it. Why nobody else responded is their business. I don't care.
> 
> And this claptrap:
> 
> "...immune to the responsibilities of the rest of us..."
> 
> WTH does that even mean?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> As if though Freddie ever exercised "his responsibilities" on these boards! You'll note that he's hooked his rickety wagon to the falling star of another person--he's not even talking about his own posts!




And there you are, talking about me all over again. Honestly, I wish you didn’t find me so attractive.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> As if though Freddie ever exercised "his responsibilities" on these boards! You'll note that he's hooked his rickety wagon to the falling star of another person--he's not even talking about his own posts!


They say misery loves company... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, it's like going to the circus & watching the freak show. Fascinating to watch, just to see what will happen next...



Freddie_Biff said:


> And there you are, talking about me all over again. Honestly, I wish you didn’t find me so attractive.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, why are you so fixated on gayness and male attraction?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And there you are, talking about me all over again. Honestly, I wish you didn’t find me so attractive.


----------



## Beej

> Unauthorized border crossing into the U.S. has always been illegal, but previous administrations did not criminally prosecute all border crossers the way the Trump administration has.


There are many points where someone can apply to cross the Mexico-U.S. border legally. The 2016 election made clear that the president would take illegal crossing seriously. 

I think that suddenly enforcing the law much more strictly is a problem, but intentionally avoiding legal crossings and not staying up to date on policy after a highly publicized election where this topic was front and centre? That's a very optimistic approach. 



> “Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum,”


Is this news?


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Is this news?


Nope, it is applying the law and nothing more. The issue mentioned is a domestic problem within Mexico, period, end of story. 'Not our problem', so to note by Americans.


----------



## Macfury

The same laws were quietly enforced the same way under Obama. It's just that it now attracts the attention of the media.



Beej said:


> There are many points where someone can apply to cross the Mexico-U.S. border legally. The 2016 election made clear that the president would take illegal crossing seriously.
> 
> I think that suddenly enforcing the law much more strictly is a problem, but intentionally avoiding legal crossings and not staying up to date on policy after a highly publicized election where this topic was front and centre? That's a very optimistic approach.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this news?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The same laws were quietly enforced the same way under Obama. It's just that it now attracts the attention of the media.


No - as I pointed out to you earlier, under the Obama regime, families were detained together.

Further:

_The change the Trump administration has made is to declare and try to implement a zero-tolerance policy at the US-Mexico border: Criminal prosecution of all people who seek to cross illegally between ports of entry. With Attorney General Jeff Sessions' announcement on April 7 that all illegal crossers would be prosecuted in federal court for illegal entry or re-entry, the administration essentially ensured that parents would be separated from their children because minors cannot be kept in federal criminal detention facilities. So the parents are now being transferred from the Border Patrol to the US Marshals Service and then are being tried in court for the misdemeanor of illegal entry or the felony charge of illegal re-entry. As a result, their children are turned over to the custody of the Department of Health Human Services' Office of Refugee Resettlement.
The Trump administration's blanket policy to prosecute all illegal crossers, including family groups, is new. _

(*Doris Meissner*, the director of the US immigration policy program at the Migration Policy Institute via CNN)​


----------



## Macfury

The law was already on the books. The parents believed they could break the law. They know the law is now being enforced. If the parents don't want to be separated from their kids... don't cross illegally. In the meantime the kids are receiving food and medical care.



CubaMark said:


> No - as I pointed out to you earlier, under the Obama regime, families were detained together.
> 
> Further:
> 
> _The change the Trump administration has made is to declare and try to implement a zero-tolerance policy at the US-Mexico border: Criminal prosecution of all people who seek to cross illegally between ports of entry. With Attorney General Jeff Sessions' announcement on April 7 that all illegal crossers would be prosecuted in federal court for illegal entry or re-entry, the administration essentially ensured that parents would be separated from their children because minors cannot be kept in federal criminal detention facilities. So the parents are now being transferred from the Border Patrol to the US Marshals Service and then are being tried in court for the misdemeanor of illegal entry or the felony charge of illegal re-entry. As a result, their children are turned over to the custody of the Department of Health Human Services' Office of Refugee Resettlement.
> The Trump administration's blanket policy to prosecute all illegal crossers, including family groups, is new. _
> 
> (*Doris Meissner*, the director of the US immigration policy program at the Migration Policy Institute via CNN)​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The law was already on the books. The parents believed they could break the law. They know the law is now being enforced.


I don't understand why you aren't getting this.



Macfury said:


> If the parents don't want to be separated from their kids... don't cross illegally.


And those who come to the border seeking asylum? These people have different protections from migrants who are simply looking to cross the border in search of economic opportunity, family reunification, etc. But they are caught up in Trumps policy change that now recategorizes all would-be immigrants as criminals, which results in family separation.

Then there's the broader, historical context. The usual bull**** from the Right-wing is that Person (x) did crime  therefore s/he's a "bad hombre" and deserves what s/he gets. It seems like there's a set of blinders on when it comes to context that you're never willing to allow into the discussion.

A large percentage of the migrants that are reaching the Mexico-USA border are Honduran (a very large percentage of all Latin American migrants are actually interdicted in Mexico, which dedicates a helluvalot more cash and human resources than they're given credit for in the attempt to restrict the flow of migrants). When the right-wing coup went down in 2009, that country went to absolute ****. Leftist President Zelaya was ousted, the USA made noise about how this was "unacceptable" (wink wink) but did absolutely nothing of any consequence to influence a return to legitimacy:

Many governments, media, and human-rights organisations outside Honduras have termed the ouster a coup.[36] The United Nations, the Organization of American States (OAS),[37] and the European Union condemned the removal of Zelaya as a military coup. On 5 July 2009, the Organization of American States OAS, invoking for the first time Article 21 of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, voted by acclamation of all member states to suspend Honduras from the organisation.[38]

Soon after the coup, U.S. President Barack Obama stated: "We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the president of Honduras, the democratically elected president there."[39] He stated: "It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition, rather than democratic elections."[39] Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, however, equivocated, saying that "We do think that this has evolved into a coup" and noting that under U.S. law, officially declaring a coup would oblige the U.S. to cut off most foreign aid to Honduras."[39][40] Cutting off aid was seen as a possibility in the days after the coup,[40] and State Department Director of Policy Planning Anne-Marie Slaughter urged Clinton to "take bold action" and to "find that [the] coup was a 'military coup' under U.S. law."[41] Nevertheless, Clinton did not do so, and the U.S. never formally declared that a coup had occurred.[39] By November 2009, the U.S. "focused on pushing for elections" in the country.[42] In September 2009, the Board of the U.S. Millennium Challenge Corporation, headed by Clinton, cut off $11 million in aid to the Honduran government in the wake of the coup, and suspended another $4 million in planned contributions to a road project.[43] From 2009 to mid-2016, however, the U.S. provided about $200 million in military and police aid to Honduras, a controversial decision given the violence in Honduras and the government's human rights violations.[44]

* * *​
As of 2014 the coup had weakened democratic institutions such, that along with corruption and police impunity, state security forces persecuted coup opponents, campesinos, indigenous protesters and others, and the crime rate increased massively. In this context more than 13,000 Honduran children crossed U.S. borders from October 2013 until May 2014, a 1272% increase compared to 2009.[115]

That same year, Senate Armed Services Committee Chair Carl Levin asked the U.S. Defense Department Office of the Inspector General to investigate charges that the William Perry Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies , the educational arm of U.S. Southern Command located at the National Defense University in Washington, D.C., had actively promoted the coup declared illegal by Commander-in-Chief Obama but remained unpunished.[116]

Following the coup trends of decreasing poverty and extreme poverty were reversed. The nation saw a poverty increase of 13.2 percent and in extreme poverty of 26.3 percent in just 3 years.[117] Furthermore, unemployment grew between 2008 and 2012 from 6.8 percent to 14.1 percent.[117]
(Wikipedia)​
US interference in Latin American affairs is at the root of much of the chaos, crime, exploitation and outright genocide that has occurred in the region over the past century. Support for dictators and military regimes, blind eyes turned toward "valued allies'" genocidal actions (e.g. Guatemala) isn't a conspiracy - it's historical fact. And curious how many of those evil bastards, their families, and the looted treasuries of their countries ended up in Miami once they were ousted.

It's not that different from the Middle East refugee crisis: if you're going to drop bombs on folks in the region, don't be surprised if they try to reach your shores: not to retaliate, but because it's unlikely they'll drop bombs on their own territory. Don't like refugees? Stop destroying their countries.



Macfury said:


> In the meantime the kids are receiving food and medical care.


...and psychological / emotional damage that will last their lifetimes. Two-year-olds separated from their mothers; children screaming for their parents, unable to be comforted because there's a "no touching" policy for the guards who are overseeing these children, locked in cages, warehoused in disused big box stores, with aluminium blankets. How anyone can accept this treatment of children in the name of enforcing immigration laws is incomprehensible to me. There is zero need for this policy of family separation to continue. It is a conscious decision by the Trump administration to inflict pain and suffering on children. 

It is precisely this kind of issue that reinforces the characterization of conservatives as hard-hearted, unsympathetic and outright hateful at their core. Toss as much of your disposable income toward charity as you like; serve as many homeless meals as you feel obligated to do; none of that will atone for this evil visited upon the most vulnerable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t Trump blaming this family separation on the Democrats?


----------



## Macfury

You're mistaken. The law itself was created by Democrats and families were previously separated under Democrats.

It's funny, but if you commit a crime in Canada, you tend to get separated from your kids as well. It's a side effect of breaking the law.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t Trump blaming this family separation on the Democrats?


----------



## Rps

Actually, MacFury, this is a current WH policy. A few months ago Trump had the word “ discretion “ taken out of the phrasing of the law. Thus you have hat you are seeing now. Further,, Trump has refused to change his view to moderate the situation, blaming the Democrats for not fully supporting him. He is now blackmailing the Democrats to finance the wall or there will be no change in policy. As cruel as it sounds, to get his wall built this is quite a good strategy on his part, I can see it going through. None of this, of course, will change the opinion of his base and he knows it. Smart move on his part.


----------



## Macfury

The law was not changed. The discretion was not whether or not children could be separated, but as to whether those crossing the border illegally would be charged. If you're charged, you will be temporarily incarcerated--and that's been so over the past decade.



Rps said:


> Actually, MacFury, this is a current WH policy. A few months ago Trump had the word “ discretion “ taken out of the phrasing of the law. Thus you have hat you are seeing now. Further,, Trump has refused to change his view to moderate the situation, blaming the Democrats for not fully supporting him. He is now blackmailing the Democrats to finance the wall or there will be no change in policy. As cruel as it sounds, to get his wall built this is quite a good strategy on his part, I can see it going through. None of this, of course, will change the opinion of his base and he knows it. Smart move on his part.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The law was not changed. The discretion was not whether or not children could be separated, but as to whether those crossing the border illegally would be charged. If you're charged, you will be temporarily incarcerated--and that's been so over the past decade.


My point exactly......they now view them as felons.


----------



## FeXL

You really have some twisted world view, ya know?

Don't s'pose that the followers of the Religion of Peace (ISIS, the Taliban, among others) who were, among other things, killing, raping & enslaving men, women & children may have been a _small_ factor in the mass exodus, huh?

<just shaking my head...>



CubaMark said:


> It's not that different from the Middle East refugee crisis: if you're going to drop bombs on folks in the region, don't be surprised if they try to reach your shores: not to retaliate, but because it's unlikely they'll drop bombs on their own territory.


Another false equivalency.

There ain't no American bombs falling on Mexico, Honduras or anywhere else in Latin America.



CubaMark said:


> Don't like refugees? Stop destroying their countries.


----------



## Macfury

Potential felons. They are apprehended when crossing illegally and may be charged and convicted. However, they were always potential felons, because illegal border crossing has been a felony for years.

This is also true for illegal immigrants _to_ Mexico. It's a felony punishable by up to two years in prison. Repeat offenders can be imprisoned for 10 years. They will be separated from their children as a result.



Rps said:


> My point exactly......they now view them as felons.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> My point exactly......they now view them as felons.


Illegal aliens _are_ felons.


----------



## FeXL

Further to this BS.

Freddie, how many of the links in my posts do you click on?

And precisely how many posts of mine do you respond to?

Pot, kettle...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Don’t expect them to actually respond to what you posted.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> There ain't no American bombs falling on Mexico, Honduras or anywhere else in Latin America.


Time to open up a book or two. The violence visited upon Latin America by the United States includes bombs, invasions, assassinations, financial support for ruthless dictators and military regimes. On top of this we can add economic exploitation, collusion with the 1% of those countries (it really does all come down to class, not nationality). 

But understanding context is something for which you have repeatedly shown no talent.


----------



## Rps

Okay, I’m not an immigration lawyer but illegal entry in the U.S. is a misdemeanour, but if you are expelled and come back in it is a felony. Further, aggravated felony in immigration law is not the same as aggravated felony in criminal law. However, if you want to stop the migration into a country the country from where the migrants are coming needs to get there act together such that no one wants to leave.

In this, I think we can agree and, it is not up to the destination country to try and fix the emigrant country’s problem.


----------



## FeXL

You said, specifically, "drop bombs".

What was the last century the Americans dropped bombs anywhere in Latin America?

And, you avoided the whole Islam angle to the Middle Eastern/African mass exodus.

Speaking of not understanding context...



CubaMark said:


> Time to open up a book or two.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, first illegal entry is a misdemeanour. It's the repeat offenders who are incarcerated and separated from family members they take with them. Sessions' quote on the matter, they will be charged with a felony "if they unlawfully enter or attempt to enter a second time and certain aggravating circumstances are present."



Rps said:


> Okay, I’m not an immigration lawyer but illegal entry in the U.S. is a misdemeanour, but if you are expelled and come back in it is a felony. Further, aggravated felony in immigration law is not the same as aggravated felony in criminal law. However, if you want to stop the migration into a country the country from where the migrants are coming needs to get there act together such that no one wants to leave.
> 
> In this, I think we can agree and, it is not up to the destination country to try and fix the emigrant country’s problem.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Further to this BS.
> 
> 
> 
> Freddie, how many of the links in my posts do you click on?
> 
> 
> 
> And precisely how many posts of mine do you respond to?
> 
> 
> 
> Pot, kettle...



I try to ignore your posts as much as possible, truth be told, because I find you to be a very disagreeable person to have a conversation with. Not much in it for me. Having said that, I will respond occasionally if I feel moved. No offense. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Precisely. Yet one more Prog hypocrisy. Quelle surprise.

"YOU DIDN'T CLICK ON CM'S LINK & THAT MAKES YOU A BAD GUY, BUT IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE FOR ME NOT TO CLICK ON YOOOUURS..."

As to your reluctance to respond, good. I encourage you to respond less & less. It makes the daily pile of BS I have to deal with far smaller.

No offense... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> I try to ignore your posts as much as possible, truth be told, because I find you to be a very disagreeable person to have a conversation with. Not much in it for me. Having said that, I will respond occasionally if I feel moved. No offense.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> You said, specifically, "drop bombs".


You conveniently left out the 80% of my post that had to deal with the Latin American context before expanding to include the Middle Eastern situation. Read much?



FeXL said:


> What was the last century the Americans dropped bombs anywhere in Latin America?


Panama 1989 when they went to get their CIA asset Noriega (See The Panama Deception)

After '89, the USA found itself a few nice little wars in Iraq, etc., and Latin America was pretty much under the control of the USA's dictator allies. No need to go bombing things again. The US had achieved its ideological aims in the region: unfettered capitalism, economies wide open to foreign exploitation (particularly in mining and other natural resource extraction). A few hundred thousand dead leftists and indigenous peoples were a small price to pay to guarantee corporate profit-making.



FeXL said:


> And, you avoided the whole Islam angle to the Middle Eastern/African mass exodus.


What whole "Islam angle"? Or are you once again equating Islam with any and every terrorist organization, like ISIS? Do you honestly believe that ISIS would exist today were it not for the constant intervention of the USA and its allies in the internal affairs of countries in the region? The overthrow of the democratic government in Iran? The invasion of Iraq under false pretences? The invasion of Iraq because George W. was upset that Saddam didn't like his daddy? etc. ad infinitum?

It's rather disingenuous of you folks on the Right to point to effects without considering causes. Things don't "just happen".


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting that Wahabi Muslims are about 1% of the total Muslim population. Most live in Saudi Arabia. Yet somehow it is the Wahabi version of Islam that is constantly portrayed in the Western Propaganda mills.

As to ISIS anyone who believes that it is anything but a US/Israeli/Saudi funded and trained proxy is incredibly unaware of what is really happening in the middle east.


----------



## FeXL

Read everything.

You weren't doing overly bad until you inserted the BS about American bombs being the reason for the mass exodus out of the Middle East.

That's pure, unmitigated bull$h!t. It was the internal wars, the fear of Islam fundamentalists, ISIS, etc., etc., etc.



CubaMark said:


> You conveniently left out the 80% of my post that had to deal with the Latin American context before expanding to include the Middle Eastern situation. Read much?


Oh. So, nothing this century.

Must have been a helluva bomb to create a Panamanian migrant movement that's not only spread to a huge area of Latin America, but is still carrying on today, 29 years later...



CubaMark said:


> Panama 1989 when they went to get their CIA asset Noriega...


Yes. 

Did the US presence accelerate the spread of ISIS? _Possibly/probably._ 

Did they cause ISIS? Nope.



CubaMark said:


> Do you honestly believe that ISIS would exist today blah, blah, blah.


Hah! A Prog quoting cause & effect to me.

A little dose of reality is in order, Mr Gun Control Law.



CubaMark said:


> It's rather disingenuous of you folks on the Right to point to effects without considering causes. Things don't "just happen".


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely. Yet one more Prog hypocrisy. Quelle surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> "YOU DIDN'T CLICK ON CM'S LINK & THAT MAKES YOU A BAD GUY, BUT IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE FOR ME NOT TO CLICK ON YOOOUURS..."
> 
> 
> 
> As to your reluctance to respond, good. I encourage you to respond less & less. It makes the daily pile of BS I have to deal with far smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> No offense... :lmao::lmao::lmao:




Touchy touchy. And I always assumed you didn’t care.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, that'd be saweet. 

They can leave their clothes on, however. Bill's Wife? <shudder>

GENIUS: GOP Hopeful Proposes Parading Corrupt Democrats Through Town “Game Of Thrones” Style



> Steve Saperstein, a candidate for New York’s state legislature, seeks to bring this method of shame to life by forcing convicted lawmakers “to be paraded in handcuffs through their home districts,” albeit clothed, according to the New York Post.
> 
> “Politicians who have no respect for their constituents should be shamed,” the 33-year-old public school teacher said. “These politicians who rob, cheat and corrupt our system of government should be forced to do a perp walk ‘Game of Thrones’ style.’”
> 
> Agreed. And if you ask me, we should start with California Rep. Maxine Waters, one of the most corrupt politicians of our time. Granted, Saperstein’s proposal would only apply to lawmakers in New York, but maybe the proposal could be brought up for a vote in California?


A little public humiliation would be good for their souls...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> It's the repeat offenders who are incarcerated and separated from family members they take with them. Sessions' quote on the matter, they will be charged with a felony "if they unlawfully enter or attempt to enter a second time and certain aggravating circumstances are present."


Has it been confirmed that separations are only for repeat offenders (or that criminal charges are only for those cases, which leads to the separations)?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Has it been confirmed that separations are only for repeat offenders (or that criminal charges are only for those cases, which leads to the separations)?


The best description I've seen of how the law works is here:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...nforcement-separating-kids-at-border/#slide-1

Quickly reunited following illegal entry. Longer if the adult appears to be committing a felony.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Quickly reunited following illegal entry.


*...or not.* 

*‘I Can’t Go Without My Son,’ a Mother Pleaded as She Was Deported to Guatemala
As a growing number of families are separated as part of the Trump administration’s attempt to control illegal immigration, some parents are being deported before recovering their children.​*
The Border Patrol was waiting as they made their way from the border on May 26, and soon mother and son were in a teeming detention center in southern Texas. The next part unfolded so swiftly that, even now, Ms. Ortiz cannot grasp it: Anthony was sent to a shelter for migrant children. And she was put on a plane back to Guatemala.

“I am completely devastated,” Ms. Ortiz, 25, said in one of a series of video interviews last week from her family home in Guatemala. Her eyes swollen from weeping and her voice subdued, she said she had no idea when or how she would see her son again.

As the federal government continues to separate families as part of a stepped-up enforcement program against those who cross the border illegally, the authorities say that parents are not supposed to be deported without their children. But immigration lawyers say that has happened in several cases. And the separations can be traumatic for parents who now have no clear path to recovering their children.

** * **​
“I cannot convey enough how much utter chaos there is,” said Michelle Brané, director of migrant rights and justice at the Women’s Refugee Commission, a research and advocacy organization that monitors immigration issues. “The government does not have a proper system in place to track families and coordinate.”

In some cases, parents and children have gone weeks without being able to communicate with one another and without knowing one anothers’ whereabouts. From April 19 to May 31, a total of 1,995 children who arrived with 1,940 adults were separated from their parents, according to administration officials.

** * * *​
In federal court, parents typically plead guilty to the misdemeanor offense of illegal entry. Many are then likely to accept “expedited removal” from the country, in the hope of being reunited quickly with their children. But children cannot be subject to expedited removal; they are automatically entitled to a full hearing before an immigration judge, and their cases take longer to resolve.

“Once the parent and child are apart, they are on separate legal tracks,” said John Sandweg, who was acting director of ICE during the Obama administration.

Reunification becomes particularly difficult when a parent is deported without the child and is no longer on American soil, Mr. Sandweg said; in those cases, “there is a very high risk that parents and children will be permanently separated.”

(NYT)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *...or not.*
> 
> 
> 
> *‘I Can’t Go Without My Son,’ a Mother Pleaded as She Was Deported to Guatemala
> 
> As a growing number of families are separated as part of the Trump administration’s attempt to control illegal immigration, some parents are being deported before recovering their children.​*
> 
> 
> The Border Patrol was waiting as they made their way from the border on May 26, and soon mother and son were in a teeming detention center in southern Texas. The next part unfolded so swiftly that, even now, Ms. Ortiz cannot grasp it: Anthony was sent to a shelter for migrant children. And she was put on a plane back to Guatemala.
> 
> 
> 
> “I am completely devastated,” Ms. Ortiz, 25, said in one of a series of video interviews last week from her family home in Guatemala. Her eyes swollen from weeping and her voice subdued, she said she had no idea when or how she would see her son again.
> 
> 
> 
> As the federal government continues to separate families as part of a stepped-up enforcement program against those who cross the border illegally, the authorities say that parents are not supposed to be deported without their children. But immigration lawyers say that has happened in several cases. And the separations can be traumatic for parents who now have no clear path to recovering their children.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * **​
> 
> 
> “I cannot convey enough how much utter chaos there is,” said Michelle Brané, director of migrant rights and justice at the Women’s Refugee Commission, a research and advocacy organization that monitors immigration issues. “The government does not have a proper system in place to track families and coordinate.”
> 
> 
> 
> In some cases, parents and children have gone weeks without being able to communicate with one another and without knowing one anothers’ whereabouts. From April 19 to May 31, a total of 1,995 children who arrived with 1,940 adults were separated from their parents, according to administration officials.
> 
> 
> 
> ** * * *​
> 
> 
> In federal court, parents typically plead guilty to the misdemeanor offense of illegal entry. Many are then likely to accept “expedited removal” from the country, in the hope of being reunited quickly with their children. But children cannot be subject to expedited removal; they are automatically entitled to a full hearing before an immigration judge, and their cases take longer to resolve.
> 
> 
> 
> “Once the parent and child are apart, they are on separate legal tracks,” said John Sandweg, who was acting director of ICE during the Obama administration.
> 
> 
> 
> Reunification becomes particularly difficult when a parent is deported without the child and is no longer on American soil, Mr. Sandweg said; in those cases, “there is a very high risk that parents and children will be permanently separated.”
> 
> 
> 
> (NYT)​




Sounds like a cluster****. Thanks, Trump.


----------



## Macfury

But not such a problem when Obama was separating them, right Freddie? Oh wait, you admitted you know nothing about US politics.How about a meme, then?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sounds like a cluster****. Thanks, Trump.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> The best description I've seen of how the law works is here:
> 
> https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...nforcement-separating-kids-at-border/#slide-1
> 
> Quickly reunited following illegal entry. Longer if the adult appears to be committing a felony.


Thanks for the link.


----------



## Beej

An article on the migrant topic:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ons-trigger-wrenching-decisions-idUSKBN1JG06K


> The family spent months seeking Mexican refugee status, a step taken by more and more Central Americans heading north, to allow them to avoid extortion or deportation while they gather resources to make the next move into the United States.


This case sounds like "country shopping". Related:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_shopping


> To avoid abuses, European law, the Dublin Regulation, requires that asylum seekers register their asylum claim in the first country they arrive in[citation needed], and that the decision of the first EU country they apply in, is the final decision in all EU countries. However, among some asylum seekers, the fingerprinting and registration is vehemently resisted in countries that are not considered asylum-seeker friendly, as they often wish to apply for asylum in Germany and Sweden where benefits are more generous.[4]
> 
> Some asylum seekers report burning their fingers so they can evade the fingerprint record control in Italy and apply for asylum in a country of their choice.[5] The fingerprint record, known as the Eurodac system, is used to intercept false or multiple asylum claims.[6] In Ireland, two-thirds of failed asylum seekers were found to be already known to the British border authorities, a third of the time under a different nationality, such as Tanzanians claiming to be fleeing persecution in Somalia.[7]


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> An article on the migrant topic:
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ons-trigger-wrenching-decisions-idUSKBN1JG06K
> 
> 
> This case sounds like "country shopping". Related:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_shopping


Also see the Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP), or Lateral Repatriation program, which, under Obama, separated families by a thousand miles or more. All of these programs are the result of illegal border crossing. Given ATEP, those crossing the border illegally already knew that separation might be the result of their attempts.

https://lawandcrime.com/immigration...separated-children-from-their-families-too-2/

Also note the possibility that the adults accompanying the child are NOT parents--requiring further investigation. 

The current situation is the result of due process of law. If you are committing a crime, then you have to face the possibility that you might be arrested--and your children can't be incarcerated along with you.

People understood this during the Obama administration, but suddenly the scales have fallen from their eyes and they're seeing it as though for the first time under Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> But not such a problem when Obama was separating them, right Freddie? Oh wait, you admitted you know nothing about US politics.How about a meme, then?




How about a grow up, Macfury? You’re like a bully I once knew in junior high—just didn’t know when to quit.


----------



## Macfury

Just like a bully--except:
1) You're not being threatened
2) You're engaging in a voluntary exchange of messages 
3) You're on a forum you visit voluntarily. 
4) Unlike in grade school you also have the option of editing all of my posts from your feed--it's built right into the forum controls.

Pretending to be a victim doesn't elevate your status.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How about a grow up, Macfury? You’re like a bully I once knew in junior high—just didn’t know when to quit.


----------



## FeXL

I care about some, Freddie.

You? Not so much...



Freddie_Biff said:


> And I always assumed you didn’t care.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The current situation is the result of due process of law. If you are committing a crime, then you have to face the possibility that you might be arrested--and your children can't be incarcerated along with you.


One of the main reasons the reaction from the Progs puzzles the hell out of me.

It's like the hue & cry about the Palestinians getting shot at the Israeli border. Seems pretty simple to me: Don't wanna get shot? Quit trying to jump the border.

Not to mention that there are thousands of US citizen parents separated each year from their children after the commission of a crime & en route to jail. Where's the hue & cry from the left?

There ain't one, 'cause this has everything to do with scoring political points against Trump instead of any genuine concern about "THE CHILDREEEEEEN". :-(

As you note, nobody said anything about this when Jug Ears was doing it. Hypocrites, again.

Related:

Tucker Carlson: The Ruling Class Has Decided to Use Open Borders to "Change the Country Forever"



> _"*So, the same people who support the third term post-viability abortion for purposes of sex selection are now lecturing you about God and sin and the holiness of children. Feel chastened?"* Carlson asked sardonically before launching into a few more examples, including Michael Hayden's comparison of the border situation to Nazi Germany.
> 
> "We could go on," The Daily Caller co-founder said. "There was so much more just like that. The rich and powerful reminding you just how virtuous they are. Do you think any of these people really care about family separation? If they did, they would be worried about the collapse of the American family, which is measurable and real, but they are not worried about that. In fact, they welcome that collapse, because strong families are an impediment to their political power. That’s why they are always lecturing you about the patriarchy and the evil of the American family.
> 
> "This is one of those moments that tells you everything about our ruling class. They care far more about foreigners than their own people," said Carlson, pointing out that they also aren't "interested in solutions to anything. They are great at yelling and at preening but not so much at fixing and building."_​


Bold mine.

Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

Ha! The iron...

Starbucks to Close 150 Stores in Big U.S. Cities Due to High Minimum Wage, Strict Regulations



> Starbucks has announced that it will close 150 locations in some of the nation’s big cities to get ahead of its worst growth performance in nine years. *But the company also admitted it is racing to blunt the effect of cities with higher minimum wages and other business-killing regulations.*


Bold mine.

I jes' luvs it when the Progressive chickens come home to roost...


----------



## FeXL

Further on this distracting border story.

Border Games



> New York governor Andrew Cuomo announced this week that he will refuse to deploy National Guard troops to assist in border control—though no one asked him to, and no one is ever likely to ask. Cuomo is a master of the political non sequitur—last month, he promised to send a Dunkirk-style small-boat flotilla against offshore oil rigs that don’t exist—and he’s also pretty good at twisting the English language to serve his interests.
> 
> In this, he is not unique—hence the rhetorical riot generated by the Trump administration’s so-called “family separation” policies—but the governor’s National Guard posturing is at once over the top and instructive. “In the face of the federal government’s inhumane treatment of immigrant families, New York will not deploy National Guard to the border,” Cuomo announced Monday. “We will not be complicit in this ongoing human tragedy.”
> 
> Well, again, nobody asked. But the Guard diversion is a useful tool, deflecting attention from the fundamental dishonesty of the governor’s full statement. That is, the federal government is treating no one inhumanely; the “families” involved are not so much immigrants as they are economic migrants with no inherent right of entry into the United States—and to the extent that there is an “ongoing human tragedy” on the border, responsibility for it resides with those attempting to enter the county illegally.


Related:

Some Illegal Immigrant Children Bring Plan B in Case of Rape



> Sessions said immigrants seeking asylum can _keep their families_ intact by entering the U.S. through one of the dozens of legal ports of entry instead of crossing the border illegally.


Huh. 'Magine that.

Related, 2:

Here Are The Photos Of Obama’s Illegal Immigrant Detention Facilities The Media Won’t Show You



> The media and political class become more and more outraged over the Trump administration’s decision to detain and prosecute immigrants illegally crossing the border.
> 
> Lost in the debate is any acknowledgement that President Obama’s administration also used detention facilities.
> 
> Current U.S. immigration laws, when enforced, have the consequence of temporarily separating families that arrive with children into separate detention facilities in order to prosecute the adults. The policy of prosecuting immigrants for crossing the border illegally has been in place for multiple administrations. The Obama administration prosecuted half a million illegal immigrants and similarly separated families in the process.


"But Barry was our saaaaviour..."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Just like a bully--except:
> 
> 1) You're not being threatened
> 
> 2) You're engaging in a voluntary exchange of messages
> 
> 3) You're on a forum you visit voluntarily.
> 
> 4) Unlike in grade school you also have the option of editing all of my posts from your feed--it's built right into the forum controls.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretending to be a victim doesn't elevate your status.




Denying you’re using bullying tactics doesn’t make you not a bully either. But I understand—it’s your MO. Old habits die hard.


----------



## Macfury

Stop with the "victim" tactics Freddie. You can't elevate yourself by having people pity you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Denying you’re using bullying tactics doesn’t make you not a bully either. But I understand—it’s your MO. Old habits die hard.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Stop with the "victim" tactics Freddie. You can't elevate yourself by having people pity you.




I’m not a victim—but you certainly are a bully. It’s okay, MacFury! Embrace your inner bully! FeXL certainly has.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, if you live your life as a nail, everything looks like a hammer to you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not a victim—but you certainly are a bully. It’s okay, MacFury! Embrace your inner bully! FeXL certainly has.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, if you live your life as a nail, everything looks like a hammer to you.



Good thing I don’t live my life as a nail then. But your attempts at figurative language are cute. Keep ‘em coming!!


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:*
What Trump's family separations executive order does (CNN)
Trump Retreats on Separating Families, but Thousands May Remain Apart (NYT)
Despite Trump's executive order, families may never be put back together (CNN)
rump's Executive Order On Family Separation: What It Does And Doesn't Do (NPR)
Sen. Kaine: We can't trust Trump's executive order (MSNBC)


----------



## Macfury

Your complete misunderstanding of the situation creates a false dichotomy. Can't you see what he's achieved here? Clear the tears from your watery eyes and recognize that he's flummoxed you.



CubaMark said:


> [B]Related:[/B]
> [url=https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/trump-family-separation-executive-order/index.html]What Trump's family separations executive order does[/url] (CNN)
> [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/trump-immigration-children-executive-order.html]Trump Retreats on Separating Families, but Thousands May Remain Apart[/url] (NYT)
> [url=https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/families-separated-executive-order-trump/index.html]Despite Trump's executive order, families may never be put back together[/url] (CNN)
> [url=https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/622095441/trump-executive-order-on-family-separation-what-it-does-and-doesnt-do]rump's Executive Order On Family Separation: What It Does And Doesn't Do[/url] (NPR)
> [url=https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/sen-kaine-we-can-t-trust-trump-s-executive-order-1260458563767]Sen. Kaine: We can't trust Trump's executive order[/url] (MSNBC)[/quote]


----------



## Rps

My one and only meme posting.


----------



## Macfury

Why would Obama be able to offer Trump any advice? Trump's approval rating is better than Obama's at this stage in his presidency.


----------



## eMacMan

Not unexpected. Using this issue as a bargaining chip to get Congress to fund the wall was bad judgement from the get-go. Will have to wait and see if he follows through. He is every bit as bad as BO at saying one thing and doing another.

It was the one issue the Democrypts could use to make inroads for the mid-terms and it really was time to bail.

https://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Trump-Says-He-Will-Sign-Something-to-Keep-13010618.php



> (Bloomberg) -- President Donald Trump will sign an executive order to keep immigrant families together, reversing his insistence that only Congress could end his policy of separating children from parents who are caught illegally crossing the U.S. border with Mexico.
> 
> Trump announced his decision Wednesday during a meeting at the White House with U.S. lawmakers as global condemnation of the family separation policy intensified and the backlash in Congress grew. He didn’t immediately elaborate on the order.
> 
> "We want to keep families together,” Trump said, “At the same time we have to be strong on the border." He added that otherwise "the country is going to be over-run by millions of people."
> 
> His declaration marks a turnabout after the president and top administration officials spent days arguing that the policy was rooted in law and that it was up to Congress to pass legislation to change it. Trump also demanded that such legislation include funding for a border wall and curbs on legal immigration.


----------



## Rps

eMacMan said:


> Not unexpected. Using this issue as a bargaining chip to get Congress to fund the wall was bad judgement from the get-go. Will have to wait and see if he follows through. He is every bit as bad as BO at saying one thing and doing another.
> 
> It was the one issue the Democrypts could use to make inroads for the mid-terms and it really was time to bail.
> 
> https://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Trump-Says-He-Will-Sign-Something-to-Keep-13010618.php


I’m not so sure it was a bad move. I think he is fixated on the Wall, and he will get it. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg here. He has always played to his base and THEY want the wall. The question you have to ask is “what’s changed”? The inflows will drive the cause for the wall....that hasn’t gone away.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> I’m not so sure it was a bad move. I think he is fixated on the Wall, and he will get it. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg here. He has always played to his base and THEY want the wall. The question you have to ask is “what’s changed”? The inflows will drive the cause for the wall....that hasn’t gone away.


What Democrats wanted was to have families reunited and having accused felons allowed to leave on their own recognizance--where they would simply disappear. The new law creates a special kind of incarceration where the accused and their children are kept locked up together. It allows him to continue zero tolerance AND remove the stigma of Obama-era laws regarding family separation. It's now out of the loop for the mid-terms.


----------



## eMacMan

No mention of what will happen to those 1500 boys locked up in a former Walmart Superstore in south Texas. Do they even know where the parents are, so they can re-unite them?

Wonder if they've been selling the young girls to pedophiles? I have never been able to find where they've been sending the girls to.


----------



## FeXL

First off, let's plunk down a very recent quote from you into the middle of this Charlie Foxtrot:



CubaMark said:


> It's rather disingenuous of you folks on the Right to point to effects without considering causes. Things don't "just happen".


You really don't get it, do you?

You just mouth the words as convenient little sound bites without any real understanding of their meaning or any true endorsement of the concept. It's merely a handy quip employed in a weak-wristed attempt to deflect from the weakness of your argument.

That is all.

Being separated from their children at the border is all, completely, 100%, on the parents. Don't want to be separated from them? Cross at an official border crossing. Or stay the hell home. Purdy damn evident to everybody not living in Progville. 

That is the _cause_ here.

Now, point two...

The narrative was, how heinous is it that the rotten bastard Trump was separating parents from their children at the border? This hue & cry despite the fact that Barry employed identical methods during both terms, all to silence from the Prog masses.

So, Trump signs an EO saying he will no longer separate parents/children and, are the Progs happy?

Hell, no! 

Why? 'Cause it wasn't what they wanted in the first place! They figgered he'd roll over like a RINO & just open the borders!

Not...



CubaMark said:


> Related: (trotting out the usual biased Prog sources...)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> View attachment 87106
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My one and only meme posting.




Welcome to the dark side! We have cookies.


----------



## eMacMan

Rps said:


> I’m not so sure it was a bad move. I think he is fixated on the Wall, and he will get it. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg here. He has always played to his base and THEY want the wall. The question you have to ask is “what’s changed”? The inflows will drive the cause for the wall....that hasn’t gone away.


The base does not win or lose the next election. It is the those more independent voters who control the balance. Here in Alberta, Freddie will vote for the Knothead in 19, Don will undoubtedly go Jason. The election will go to Kenney but the deciding votes could swing back again in 23, if he mismanages as badly as previous conman governments.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> The base does not win or lose the next election. It is the those more independent voters who control the balance. Here in Alberta, Freddie will vote for the Knothead in 19, Don will undoubtedly go Jason. The election will go to Kenney but the deciding votes could swing back again in 23, if he mismanages as badly as previous conman governments.




At least you acknowledge the “con man” origins of Kenney’s UCP.


----------



## Macfury

Do you believe that the worst PC government has governed worse than Notley? There have been some terrible examples of governance, but this one sets a historic low by my standards.



eMacMan said:


> The base does not win or lose the next election. It is the those more independent voters who control the balance. Here in Alberta, Freddie will vote for the Knothead in 19, Don will undoubtedly go Jason. The election will go to Kenney but the deciding votes could swing back again in 23, if he mismanages as badly as previous conman governments.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Do you believe that the worst PC government has governed worse than Notley? There have been some terrible examples of governance, but this one sets a historic low by my standards.


Having lived through Stelmach, Queenie & Prentice, and even the Getty years, as cranio-rectally inverted as they were, they don't hold a flippin' candle to Red Rachel.

Not even close.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

All the other months too! But I didn't need a meme to tell people that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> All the other months too! But I didn't need a meme to tell people that.




You are unaware of Melania's apparel choice apparently. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Progs were foaming at the chops about a coat she wore on the way to the airport. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are unaware of Melania's apparel choice apparently.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Progs were foaming at the chops about a coat she wore on the way to the airport.




I think anyone with eyeballs could see her wardrobe choice was inappropriate.


----------



## Macfury

I might agree it was a poor PR choice if she wore it _while_ visiting some sort of encampment. Only vicious people with too much time on their hands would be critical of what she wore at some other point during the day. People are using any excuse to lash out at Trump even if it means trashing his wife, who is doing a good thing.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I think anyone with eyeballs could see her wardrobe choice was inappropriate.


----------



## Rps

While I know that this post will spawn disagreement, the jacket choice is another case of WH incompetence. You mean to tell me that no one in the WH saw her wear that jacket and didn’t suggest that it may “send the wrong message”.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....what she wore at some other point during the day...


...meaning *on her way* to visit children at a border "shelter".....

_Mrs Trump was on her way to meet migrant children separated from their parents in Texas at the border when she was first spotted in the jacket. She took it off during the visit itself and then, despite hours of news attention, put it back on for the return trip._
(BBC)​


----------



## Macfury

The both of you are pissing and moaning over nothing. You'll have to turn down the sensitivity on your outrage meters.



Rps said:


> While I know that this post will spawn disagreement, the jacket choice is another case of WH incompetence. You mean to tell me that no one in the WH saw her wear that jacket and didn’t suggest that it may “send the wrong message”.





CubaMark said:


> ...meaning *on her way* to visit children at a border "shelter".....
> 
> _Mrs Trump was on her way to meet migrant children separated from their parents in Texas at the border when she was first spotted in the jacket. She took it off during the visit itself and then, despite hours of news attention, put it back on for the return trip._
> (BBC)​


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The both of you are pissing and moaning over nothing. You'll have to turn down the sensitivity on your outrage meters.


Nothing to do with sensitivity, the WH is filled with “dumb” staff which is due to poor management and it’s erratic behaviour.


----------



## Macfury

The Trump White House doesn't care about the things that others have become accustomed to feeling outrage about. That's a good thing.



Rps said:


> Nothing to do with sensitivity, the WH is filled with “dumb” staff which is due to poor management and it’s erratic behaviour.


----------



## wonderings

With everything going on in the world it is more shocking that people are feigning insult at a jacket. I thought this inclusive society was not supposed to judge people based on what they look like and what they wear? 

The fact that this is even being reported is laughable. It is a jacket that has some dumb words on it that anyone can buy for $40. Do you really believe that any slogan you wear clearly describes what you are thinking or what you believe?


----------



## FeXL

Tell me something, Freddie: Did you approve of Mr. Dressup's wardrobe choices in India? Were they appropriate?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I think anyone with eyeballs could see her wardrobe choice was inappropriate.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> I thought this inclusive society was not supposed to judge people based on what they look like and what they wear?


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

For a moment there I thought you said Progs were inclusive & weren't judgemental...


----------



## Macfury

The majority of Americans blame illegal immigrant parents for family separation:

Voters Blame Parents, Not Feds, For Border Children Crisis - Rasmussen Reports®

Those who blame government skew heavily Democrat.


----------



## Macfury

He wasn't directed to express outrage by the Prog media machine.



FeXL said:


> Tell me something, Freddie: Did you approve of Mr. Dressup's wardrobe choices in India? Were they appropriate?


----------



## Rps

wonderings said:


> Do you really believe that any slogan you wear clearly describes what you are thinking or what you believe?


In politics....yes! This is a symptom of a poorly run WH. You can believe what you wish.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He wasn't directed to express outrage by the Prog media machine.


Ah. Understood...


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> In politics....yes! This is a symptom of a poorly run WH. You can believe what you wish.


You see this as a bug. 

I see it as a feature...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The majority of Americans blame illegal immigrant parents for family separation:


Beat me to it. Read it on AoS JJ Sefton's Morning Report, from which comes this relevant quote:



> Well, after almost a week of non-stop lies, smears and utter fakery, the President singlehandedly exposed this sham for what it is by his executive order to reunite the children with their parents - without turning them loose. He made them admit that what he was doing was merely following a long-standing law, that the conditions he was blamed for were in fact the fault of Obama and most importantly that the Democrat-Left merely cares about these kids insofar as it gets them to their holy grail of open borders. The latest Rasmussen poll shows that a majority of Americans place the blame for this on the parents for placing their kids in mortal danger to be used as political pawns. Most importantly, the President's rhetoric on all these issues is plain, straightforward and brutally honest. It's also reassuring to hear for the first time a Republican president calling it like it is and calling out the Left for their intentions. Well played, sir.


He has a link to a _Daily Wire_ report on the poll.

The coldest depths of hell are reserved for those who use children as political pawns...

Related:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I might agree it was a poor PR choice if she wore it _while_ visiting some sort of encampment. Only vicious people with too much time on their hands would be critical of what she wore at some other point during the day. People are using any excuse to lash out at Trump even if it means trashing his wife, who is doing a good thing.




She wore it while going out to a good thing, same day, only hours before. Only vicious people would defend rubbing salt in metaphorical wounds. Talk about clueless.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Tell me something, Freddie: Did you approve of Mr. Dressup's wardrobe choices in India? Were they appropriate?



Nope. They were dumb too, and he was fairy criticized for them.


----------



## Macfury

The connections exist only in the fevered minds of progressives. You're trying to create salt to rub into wounds when there is only clothing. You invent the worst motives for people you disagree with.



Freddie_Biff said:


> She wore it while going out to a good thing, same day, only hours before. Only vicious people would defend rubbing salt in metaphorical wounds. Talk about clueless.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The majority of Americans blame illegal immigrant parents for family separation:
> 
> 
> 
> Voters Blame Parents, Not Feds, For Border Children Crisis - Rasmussen ReportsÂ
> 
> 
> 
> Those who blame government skew heavily Democrat.




Your point? It obviously bothered Trump enough to write an executive order changing the practice.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The connections exist only in the fevered minds of progressives. You're trying to create salt to rub into wounds when there is only clothing. You invent the worst motives for people you disagree with.




So you’re saying you honestly saw nothing wrong with her wardrobe choice? That it might send the wrong message if it, say, showed up in pictures? “I don’t really care. Do U?” Perhaps the message was too honest coming from this WH.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not part of the Outrage Industry. There was nothing wrong with what she wore and it sent no message, except to people who enjoy being outraged.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So you’re saying you honestly saw nothing wrong with her wardrobe choice? That it might send the wrong message if it, say, showed up in pictures? “I don’t really care. Do U?” Perhaps the message was too honest coming from this WH.


----------



## FeXL

Really?

Link to the post containing your criticism thereof. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. They were dumb too, and he was fairy criticized for them.


----------



## Macfury

As I already explained, it gave Trump the social capital to write the Executive Order he wanted in the first place. Think about what the Executive Order entails.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point? It obviously bothered Trump enough to write an executive order changing the practice.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> Link to the post containing your criticism thereof.



Why? I just told you what I think. You need to become a whole lot less anal retentive, amigo.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm not part of the Outrage Industry. There was nothing wrong with what she wore and it sent no message, except to people who enjoy being outraged.




Sometimes I think you play Devil’s Advocate because you just don’t know what else to do with yourself.


----------



## Macfury

You told me what you _think about_ the Executive Order. Based on your comment, you appear to have little idea about how it's structured and what the final result of the order will be.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why? I just told you what I think. You need to become a whole lot less anal retentive, amigo.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You told me what you _think about_ the Executive Order. Based on your comment, you appear to have little idea about how it's structured and what the final result of the order will be.



Umm, I don’t know what you’re referring to. This sometimes happens when someone responds to something that wasn’t directed to them. I was referring to Justin’s little dress up party in India. He was roundly criticized in the press for it.


----------



## Macfury

Your comment below:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point? It obviously bothered Trump enough to write an executive order changing the practice.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Umm, I don’t know what you’re referring to. This sometimes happens when someone responds to something that wasn’t directed to them. I was referring to Justin’s little dress up party in India. He was roundly criticized in the press for it.


----------



## FeXL

'Cause you sound more than _just a little bit hypocritical_ when you post something about conservative Mrs T's clothing & nothing, zero, about liberal Sock Boy's...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why? I just told you what I think.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your comment below:




Yeah. You’re mixing up two different topics.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> 'Cause you sound more than _just a little bit hypocritical_ when you post something about conservative Mrs T's clothing & nothing, zero, about liberal Sock Boy's...




Well, if I had critiques Justin’s clothing, which was not emblazoned with “I really don’t care. Do U?” on it, I imagine I would have put that in the Canadian thread, as opposed to comments about the Trumps, which would appear in the American thread. Unlike you, I also don’t beak off about everything I don’t agree with.


----------



## Macfury

Keep telling yourself that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah. You’re mixing up two different topics.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Keep telling yourself that!



What does Trump’s Executive Order have to do with how Justin Trudeau dressed up in India? I think you’re losing it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## eMacMan

^^^^
Given this was on the Clinton/CIA network there is no excuse for you not knowing what Melania really said.



> "Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform," her communications director, Stephanie Grisham, told CNN on Sunday. "She believes we need to be a country that follows all laws, but also a country that governs with heart."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/melania-trump-children-separated-immigration/


----------



## FeXL

WTF does this even mean?

You in the sauce already, Freddie? Bad day at work? Dog bite you? Still bitter about your 40% cutback?



Freddie_Biff said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> WTF does this even mean?
> 
> 
> 
> You in the sauce already, Freddie? Bad day at work? Dog bite you? Still bitter about your 40% cutback?




Apparently it means “blah blah blah.” You tell me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> ^^^^
> Given this was on the Clinton/CIA network there is no excuse for you not knowing what Melania really said.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/melania-trump-children-separated-immigration/




Too bad she undermined her own message with a rather unfortunate wardrobe choice. It WAS a choice, however.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Good grief, you're the poster child snowflake! You're mixing up cause and effect. The fact that you're expressing outrage doesn't mean anything outrageous has occurred.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Too bad she undermined her own message with a rather unfortunate wardrobe choice. It WAS a choice, however.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Good grief, you're the poster child snowflake! You're mixing up cause and effect. The fact that you're expressing outrage doesn't mean anything outrageous has occurred.



Who’s expressing outrage? I’m puzzled by how stupid this first family is and the illogical choices they make about a great many things. You just don’t get it. That’s puzzling too, but maybe not surprising considering the things you claim to support.


----------



## Macfury

You're puzzled because you're speaking the secret language of "butt-hurt" progressives. Only a small vocal minority of them thinks something important just happened. It's good that the American contingent remains peevish and puzzled because it keeps them occupied while Trump gets things done. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who’s expressing outrage? I’m puzzled by how stupid this first family is and the illogical choices they make about a great many things. You just don’t get it. That’s puzzling too, but maybe not surprising considering the things you claim to support.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're puzzled because you're speaking the secret language of "butt-hurt" progressives. Only a small vocal minority of them thinks something important just happened. It's good that the American contingent remains peevish and puzzled because it keeps them occupied while Trump gets things done.



And what exactly do you think Trump is getting done? Seems more like each day he finds new ways to fukc things up.


----------



## FeXL

It means that you'll grasp at straws to defend the indefensible.

'Cause, Prog.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You tell me.


----------



## FeXL

Damn that Trump!


----------



## Macfury

Trump has already kept most of the promises he made on the campaign trail. From my perspective and that of the majority of Americans, things are going very well.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And what exactly do you think Trump is getting done? Seems more like each day he finds new ways to fukc things up.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trump has already kept most of the promises he made on the campaign trail. From my perspective and that of the majority of Americans, things are going very well.


Related:



> Moore, who was an economic adviser for Trump during the 2016 campaign, estimates the president’s current odds of re-election at 70 percent, unless there’s a recession -- a view he admits is in sharp contrast to other Acela corridor analysts.


Freddie, care to place another wager that you'll never pay off?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freddie, care to place another wager that you'll never pay off?



I don’t bet with people I don’t respect. No offense.


----------



## Macfury

I expect you don't take bets you will absolutely lose either.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t bet with people I don’t respect. No offense.


----------



## FeXL

Well, Freddie, I don't bet with people who don't pay their debts. Recall "all the rice in China"?

As far as your respect issues go, you get what you give. beejacon



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t bet with people I don’t respect. No offense.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

They may have edited the cover a little bit. 

https://babylonbee.com/news/time-ma...rant-child-may-have-been-slightly-misleading/


----------



## Macfury

Guess you missed the news about the cover. No surprise.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Guess you missed the news about the cover. No surprise.




Tell me what I missed, Macfury. This story is a tongue in cheek commentary on that news about the cover. Whooooosh yourself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## eMacMan

I just loves good old fashioned hypocrisy. And here we have it. Restaurant owner who supports queer rights boots Sarah Huckabee, because she doesn't.

Sorry either you believe a business owner is obligated to serve those (s)he disagrees with or you don't. To be clear I fully support the owners right to boot Huckabee-Sanders, for the same reason I support the baker who refused to do a custom wedding cake for a gay couple. The problem is the hypocrisy of refusing service to someone you dislike because that someone supports your right to refuse service.

One of the more objective articles here:
Owner of restaurant that booted out Sarah Huckabee Sanders speaks | Daily Mail Online

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ay-red-hen-unjust-and-wrong-column/728858002/


----------



## Macfury

The Supreme Court ruled that you have to sell someone a cake--however, you can't be forced to decorate in a particular way. Likewise, you are required to serve food to Ms. Sanders.

However, I also agree with you that businesses are private property and that you should have the right to serve whichever customers you choose and then succeed or fail on that choice.



eMacMan said:


> I just loves good old fashioned hypocrisy. And here we have it. Restaurant owner who supports queer rights boots Sarah Huckabee, because she doesn't.
> 
> Sorry either you believe a business owner is obligated to serve those (s)he disagrees with or you don't. To be clear I fully support the owners right to boot Huckabee-Sanders, for the same reason I support the baker who refused to do a custom wedding cake for a gay couple. The problem is the hypocrisy of refusing service to someone you dislike because that someone supports your right to refuse service.
> 
> One of the more objective articles here:
> Owner of restaurant that booted out Sarah Huckabee Sanders speaks | Daily Mail Online
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ay-red-hen-unjust-and-wrong-column/728858002/


----------



## Macfury

The girl in the photo was not separated from her parents--the mother was nearby when the photo was taken. However, the mother separated the girl from her father by sneaking her out of their home country without his knowledge.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Tell me what I missed, Macfury. This story is a tongue in cheek commentary on that news about the cover. Whooooosh yourself.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


>


So? No one is against immigrants, they are against ILLEGAL immigrants. Do it properly. It is not a right to be in Canada or America.


----------



## Macfury

I wonder how many illegal immigrants won Nobel prizes?



wonderings said:


> So? No one is against immigrants, they are against ILLEGAL immigrants. Do it properly. It is not a right to be in Canada or America.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The girl in the photo was not separated from her parents--the mother was nearby when the photo was taken. However, the mother separated the girl from her father by sneaking her out of their home country without his knowledge.




This much I already knew. I thought you had something new to report.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> So? No one is against immigrants, they are against ILLEGAL immigrants. Do it properly. It is not a right to be in Canada or America.




There are plenty of people who are against immigrants of any variety.


----------



## Macfury

None of them are here. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> There are plenty of people who are against immigrants of any variety.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> None of them are here.



You might want to rethink that statement. I’ve seen plenty here.


----------



## Macfury

I'll bite. Who here has stated that they want to see no immigrants enter Canada? Should be pretty easy to find their posts and copy them here. At the same time, you can demonstrate how you back up your claims with evidence to support them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You might want to rethink that statement. I’ve seen plenty here.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> You might want to rethink that statement. I’ve seen plenty here.


Name them then. I have followed a few of the more active threads and it seems to me the issue is with illegal immigration and not legal immigration. While the tone by be harder then I would take, I have not seen anyone (could be wrong) come out against immigration. Not sure why anyone who has issue with ILLEGAL immigration gets lumped into people who hate ALL immigrants. It appears to me that those who claim tolerance have zero tolerance for anyone who olds a different opinion.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Name them then. I have followed a few of the more active threads and it seems to me the issue is with illegal immigration and not legal immigration. While the tone by be harder then I would take, I have not seen anyone (could be wrong) come out against immigration. Not sure why anyone who has issue with ILLEGAL immigration gets lumped into people who hate ALL immigrants. It appears to me that those who claim tolerance have zero tolerance for anyone who olds a different opinion.



I’m not going to name them. I’m sure it wouldn’t take you long to figure out who has been vocally critical of Syrian immigration to Canada, for example, and that’s all quite legal. Trudeau has been lambasted in this thread many times for his support of Syrian immigrants.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Being critical of a poorly administered refugee program is not a blanket opposition to all immigration. Clearly, you are unable to identify anyone here who matches your profile of someone opposed to all immigration.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not going to name them. I’m sure it wouldn’t take you long to figure out who has been vocally critical of Syrian immigration to Canada, for example, and that’s all quite legal. Trudeau has been lambasted in this thread many times for his support of Syrian immigrants.


----------



## Macfury

If you had already known that, you would not have posted the false meme.



Freddie_Biff said:


> This much I already knew. I thought you had something new to report.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you had already known that, you would not have posted the false meme.




No, sometimes people do things for reasons that you do not understand. Sometimes you don’t see the bigger picture. Please stop telling me what I should or would have done. You don’t know me, and I prefer it that way, to be honest.


----------



## SINC

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> .




Full of wisdom this morning.


----------



## Macfury

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you would not intentionally post a meme that you knew to be dishonest. I didn't order you to be honest.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, sometimes people do things for reasons that you do not understand. Sometimes you don’t see the bigger picture. Please stop telling me what I should or would have done. You don’t know me, and I prefer it that way, to be honest.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Full of wisdom this morning.


No, I was just helping out the thread which was stuck and would not move to the last post until I typed that period and posted it. simple as that.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, I noticed that it was stuck--thanks for moving it along!



SINC said:


> No, I was just helping out the thread which was stuck and would not move to the last post until I typed that period and posted it. simple as that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> No, I was just helping out the thread which was stuck and would not move to the last post until I typed that period and posted it. simple as that.




?

I guess I don’t encounter that problem in Tapatalk on my phone.


----------



## FeXL

Awrite, as this is clearly directed at me, I'll bite.

First off, Freddie, it is clear from my posts on these boards precisely who/what I'm for/against.
Second, even though I've clearly stated what my concerns are, you still manage to mangle (or ignore, or be deliberately obtuse with, or be just basically stupid with) my message. Quelle surprise. Some educator you must make: you don't listen, your powers of observation are crap, your reading comprehension is non-existant, you cannot make a logical deduction & you are unable to defend a position with empirical evidence. Man, am I glad my kds don't go to your school. No offense...
Third, I've no issues with legal genuine Christian Syrian immigrants (or genuine Christian immigrants from anywhere else) who follow proper channels, which I've also noted before on these boards.
Fourth, The Eyebrow has been lambasted in this thread because he is a complete & utter buffoon. My cat, the dumb one with no nuts, could run this country better.
Fifth, I have major issues with illegal aliens of _all_ stripes.
Sixth, I have major issues with economic refugees of _all_ stripes. If that is your status, use the legal immigration route.
Seventh, there is not a single person on these boards who is 100% against immigration that I am aware of.

That's a little checklist for you. Next time you _think_ you know what my opinion on immigrants/illegal aliens _actually_ is, come back & review this list before opening your pie-hole.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not going to name them. I’m sure it wouldn’t take you long to figure out who has been vocally critical of Syrian immigration to Canada, for example, and that’s all quite legal. Trudeau has been lambasted in this thread many times for his support of Syrian immigrants.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you got a lot bigger problems than Tapatalk on your phone.

Trust me on this...



Freddie_Biff said:


> ?
> 
> I guess I don’t encounter that problem in Tapatalk on my phone.


----------



## FeXL

Recall the Awan brothers? Those ace IT guys from Pakistan, hired by the Dems?

Awan Brother Suspected of Stealing $120,000 in Equipment from Democrat Rep.



> Abid Awan — the Pakistani IT administrator accused of improperly accessing Congressional computer networks with brothers Imran and Jamal — is suspected of stealing thousands of dollars worth of equipment from a Democrat House member.
> 
> According to documents, Wendy Anderson, New York Democrat Rep. Yvette Clarke’s deputy chief of staff, discovered Abid Awan in December 2015 digging through the lawmaker’s office “with new iPods and other equipment strewn around the room.”
> 
> The aide immediately ordered Awan to leave the lawmaker’s office and would later tell investigators she believed the IT worker and Clarke’s chief of staff, Shelley Davis, plotted the heist together. In February 2016 — six months later after admitting her office could not account for $120,000 worth of equipment — the Congressional Black Caucus member terminated Abid Awan.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Awrite, as this is clearly directed at me, I'll bite.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Freddie, it is clear from my posts on these boards precisely who/what I'm for/against.
> 
> Second, even though I've clearly stated what my concerns are, you still manage to mangle (or ignore, or be deliberately obtuse with, or be just basically stupid with) my message. Quelle surprise. Some educator you must make: you don't listen, your powers of observation are crap, your reading comprehension is non-existant, you cannot make a logical deduction & you are unable to defend a position with empirical evidence. Man, am I glad my kds don't go to your school. No offense...
> 
> Third, I've no issues with legal genuine Christian Syrian immigrants (or genuine Christian immigrants from anywhere else) who follow proper channels, which I've also noted before on these boards.
> 
> Fourth, The Eyebrow has been lambasted in this thread because he is a complete & utter buffoon. My cat, the dumb one with no nuts, could run this country better.
> 
> Fifth, I have major issues with illegal aliens of _all_ stripes.
> 
> Sixth, I have major issues with economic refugees of _all_ stripes. If that is your status, use the legal immigration route.
> 
> Seventh, there is not a single person on these boards who is 100% against immigration that I am aware of.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a little checklist for you. Next time you _think_ you know what my opinion on immigrants/illegal aliens _actually_ is, come back & review this list before opening your pie-hole.



Thanks for sharing.


----------



## FeXL

OPEN THE BORDERS!!!

Border Agents arrest 5,000 illegal immigrants with criminal records trying to cross the border - including a convicted murderer and scores of gang members



> Hundreds of gang members and more than 5,000 convicted criminals were arrested trying to sneak back into the U.S. in just eight months.
> 
> They included 505 confirmed members of violent groups MS-13, 18th Street gang, and the Mexican Mafia hoping to rejoin their organizations.
> 
> Last week six violent criminals were detained for deportation after crossing the border, including a convicted murder and pedophile.


Related:

Police: MS-13 men beat sex-trafficked girl with bat 28 times, 'indented' part of her body



> A female human trafficking victim too young to legally drive a car or buy a lottery ticket was savagely beaten with a bat by a pack of incensed MS-13 members, Montgomery County Police said.
> 
> Late last month, Ivan Alexis Pena-Rodriguez, 20, Yervin Josue Romero-Rivera, 21, and Miguel Angel Ayala-Rivera, 24, were all formally charged with first-degree assault, plus other assorted criminal counts.
> 
> According to court documents obtained by WJLA, Montgomery County authorities served a search and seizure warrant at a suspected MS-13 hangout house along the 11200 block of Valley View Avenue in Kensington, near Albert Einstein High School. As a result of that warrant, an unnamed source told detectives about an incident that left a 15-year-old girl "severely" wounded and bloody.


Related, too:

The Morning Rant: J.V. Edition



> In England, Hillary Trashes America's Electoral College
> 
> _“Today, the American president tweeted there should be no judicial process, there should be no due process for anyone who crosses the border,” Clinton said. “I can’t help but think, if you strip immigrants and asylum seekers of due process and judicial review, who is next?”_​
> I am curious where in the US Constitution it says that we are to afford invaders all of the rights and privileges of citizenship. Now, I am not a Constitutional scholar like the FAB or the Chocolate Messiah, but I have read the damned thing and nowhere is it written that we must give non-citizens everything that we have fought and died for.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Progs harassing law-abiding Americans.

Red Hen owner followed Sanders family to another restaurant



> Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee alleged Monday that the restaurant owner who refused service to his daughter, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, actually ended up following Mrs. Sanders‘ family to another restaurant and causing a “scene.”
> 
> Mr. Huckabee told conservative radio host Laura Ingraham on Monday that Stephanie Wilkinson, owner of the Red Hen in Lexington, Virginia, kicked Mrs. Sanders and her family out of the restaurant and then proceeded to yell at them when they tried to go to a different restaurant across the street.


Related:

(Idn't it curious how many Progs become God-fearin' experts on religion when it suits their political agenda?)

Maxine Waters: God Is On The Side Of People Driving Trump Officials From Restaurants



> Congresswoman Maxine Waters claimed that God was on the side of people who drove Trump officials out of restaurants during a speech at a “Keep Families Together” rally on Saturday.
> 
> She explained, “Already you have members of your cabinet that are being booed out of restaurants. We have protesters taking up at their house who are saying, ‘No peace, no sleep. No peace, no sleep.’”(RELATED: Restaurant Manager Where Secretary Nielsen Was Mobbed ‘Happy About What Happened’)
> 
> “We’re gonna win this battle,” Waters said, “because while you try and quote the Bible, Jeff Sessions and others, you really don’t know the Bible. God is on our side. On the side of the children. On the side of what’s right. On the side of what’s honorable. On the side of understanding that if we can’t protect the children, we can’t protect anybody. ”


Related, too:

Decapitated Animal Left On Front Porch Of DHS Official’s Home



> The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is warning employees of a “sharp increase in the overall number of general threats” against them after a senior DHS official found a headless animal carcass left on his front porch, said an official with knowledge of the incident.
> 
> DHS Acting Deputy Secretary Claire Grady issued the warning in a letter to employees on Saturday, spurred by the incident at the senior official’s home in Washington, D.C., reported ABC News.


Put a piece of bacon on the doorknob at a mosque, the Prog media goes ape*****. This? Nuttin'...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




She does work for the Ministry of Truth, after all.


----------



## Macfury

CM do you really think Trump wanted people to strike others--or did you just like that badly-drawn cartoon?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> CM do you really think Trump wanted people to strike others--or did you just like that badly-drawn cartoon?




Those are actual quotes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Man, even the wording makes the joke fall flat. The talk bubble should have said "fewer" not "the fewer."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Awrite, as this is clearly directed at me, I'll bite.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Freddie, it is clear from my posts on these boards precisely who/what I'm for/against.
> 
> Second, even though I've clearly stated what my concerns are, you still manage to mangle (or ignore, or be deliberately obtuse with, or be just basically stupid with) my message. Quelle surprise. Some educator you must make: you don't listen, your powers of observation are crap, your reading comprehension is non-existant, you cannot make a logical deduction & you are unable to defend a position with empirical evidence. Man, am I glad my kds don't go to your school. No offense...
> 
> Third, I've no issues with legal genuine Christian Syrian immigrants (or genuine Christian immigrants from anywhere else) who follow proper channels, which I've also noted before on these boards.
> 
> Fourth, The Eyebrow has been lambasted in this thread because he is a complete & utter buffoon. My cat, the dumb one with no nuts, could run this country better.
> 
> Fifth, I have major issues with illegal aliens of _all_ stripes.
> 
> Sixth, I have major issues with economic refugees of _all_ stripes. If that is your status, use the legal immigration route.
> 
> Seventh, there is not a single person on these boards who is 100% against immigration that I am aware of.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a little checklist for you. Next time you _think_ you know what my opinion on immigrants/illegal aliens _actually_ is, come back & review this list before opening your pie-hole.




Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## FeXL

Losin' it, Freddie?
Little too much sauce tonite?




Freddie_Biff said:


> Thanks for sharing.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## FeXL

So the left wants civil war?

Bring it.

Liberals’ Hatred Will Inevitably Turn Into Violence



> Many of us are predicting that eventually these foam-spitting, psycho liberals are going to embrace violence out of frustration at their inability to recover the power we stripped from them, but we’re already past that point. Just ask Steve Scalise, alive today only because the Bernie bro who tried to massacre a bunch of Republicans, as well as Jeff Flake, did not know how to shoot.
> 
> But we Normals do know how to shoot, and that’s significant. Because, as I have grown hoarse from shouting, I see these leftist morons charging headlong down the same slippery slope I was stationed at the bottom of in Kosovo.


More (and a tip):



> Don’t go with violence, progressives. It will end badly.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more.

Report Alleges Obama Admin. Forced Psychotropic Drugs On Illegal Alien Kids To Calm Them Down



> Several days ago, LU’s Ben Bowles uncovered a newly released report published by the ACLU claiming that “migrant children long have reported varied mistreatment in CBP custody, including sexual, physical, and verbal abuse, and the deprivation of basic needs such as food, water, and emergency medical care.”
> 
> As Bowles noted in his last sentence, the abuses occurred between 2009 and 2014 — the Obama years — which explains why the mainstream media have still not touched the story.
> 
> I predict they will be less reticent about a second report published by investigative reporters with Reveal concerning a federal lawsuit filed by families of migrant children detained at the Shiloh Treatment Center, a government contractor south of Houston. The suit, filed in federal court, claims that the children were forcibly injected with psychotropic drugs that made them dizzy, listless, and even incapacitated. A side effect of one of the medications, all meant to calm hysterical children, was obesity.
> 
> The details provided in the article are chilling:


I can see the headline on the Clinton News Network now.

Not...

B-b-b-b-but...TRUMP!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Losin' it, Freddie?
> 
> Little too much sauce tonite?




My earlier post didn't show up when I checked a couple of minutes ago. In any event, extra civility never hurt anybody.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

What is the content of Sanders' character, Freddie? And do you support the right of restaurants to throw out Progressives if the owner doesn't like their political views?


----------



## FeXL

Thought you didn't have those problems with Tapatalk on your phone?



Freddie_Biff said:


> My earlier post didn't show up when I checked a couple of minutes ago. In any event, extra civility never hurt anybody.


----------



## eMacMan

OK I found it revolting that SHS was booted 'cause she supported the right of business owners to refuse to deal with certain customers. I mean if you believe a business must serve anyone then it is out of line to go back on that when you're the one who does not like the customers viewpoint.

By the same token if you believe that business owners should have the right to refuse service whatever the reason, then it's idiotic to harass a business when it happens to boot your pet. More so if you have not the mental wherewithal to aim your barbs at the correct business.

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/poli...ed-Hen-receives-wrath-of-Sanders-13023997.php



> OLD SAYBROOK, Conn. (AP) — A Connecticut restaurant called the Red Hen received "threatening" messages from people confused with an identically named Virginia eatery that refused White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders service.
> 
> 
> The Old Saybrook restaurant has received dozens of angry phone messages and negative reviews from people across the country since Saturday, reported The Day. Callers ignored owner Shelley Deproto when she explained her restaurant isn't affiliated with the Virginia restaurant.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more.
> 
> Report Alleges Obama Admin. Forced Psychotropic Drugs On Illegal Alien Kids To Calm Them Down
> 
> I can see the headline on the Clinton News Network now.
> 
> Not...
> 
> B-b-b-b-but...TRUMP!!!


Good to see you on the side of the ACLU, FeXL! The abuse of migrants by the ICE / Border Patrol / DHS / etc. should be brought to light and those responsible punished, absolutely. I somehow doubt that the decision to administer psychotropic drugs read the White House, but if there's a paper trail, I hope it's followed.

But this false equivalency you folks on the far-right-fringe keep turning to as an excuse for the Trump administration's current crimes against children and justice is simply shameful.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> CM do you really think Trump wanted people to strike others--or did you just like that badly-drawn cartoon?


There's little doubt in my mind that Trump would have been just fine with folks beating on anyone who shared a different perspective than does he. No mature, rational, thinking person would tell a crowd (mob!) of his supporters to go ahead and rough somebody up. 

Put Obama in Trump's position on the podium, put those same words in his mouth, and see how your interpretation of intent changes. Y'all would have lost your friggin' minds, saying he was calling for a race war. 

You can't have it both ways, pal.


----------



## FeXL

FeXL:

"Jug Ears drugged illegal alien children."

CM:

"ACLU!!!!! TRUMP!!!!!!!!"


----------



## FeXL

WTF??? 

‘Civility is a tool of white supremacy’: Samantha Bee writer’s head-scratching defense of ‘Maxine Mobs’



> A writer for TBS’s “Full Frontal with Samantha Bee” went off on a Twitter rant Monday, saying that “civility is a tool of white supremacy.”
> 
> “Civility is a tool of white supremacy. Ok, cool. Byeeeeee!” Ashley Nicole Black wrote in a tweet, lashing out against nationwide calls for civility after influential Democrats like Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters of California called for liberals to remove Trump cabinet members from restaurants and public places.


Related:

Samantha Bee Writer: ‘Civility Is A Tool Of White Supremacy’



> Arne Duncan, who was Secretary of Education in the Obama administration, pointed out the similarities between chasing Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen out of a restaurant June 19 to the U.S.’s history of racial segregation laws that made it legal not to serve black people in restaurants.
> 
> “My personal opinion: No matter how much we dislike or disagree with someone, we should not deny them the chance to have a meal,” Duncan wrote in a tweet on Sunday. “The history in our country of denying people access to restaurants, to water fountains and even bathrooms is too raw, too real. We can’t keep dividing.”


Wow. Did she, as AoS noted, just call minorities uncivilized?


----------



## FeXL

Embrace Hollywood



> Joel Davis of the International Campaign to Stop Rape and Gender Violence in Conflict has been arrested in New York on multiple charges related to child sexual abuse.
> 
> Via Instapundit;
> 
> _ A deeper dive of his organization’s website states that the group was hosted at one point by “UN Special Envoy” Angelina Jolie. If that’s indeed true, just one more reason to ignore actors when they start lecturing us, no matter how noble-sounding the cause is._​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Thought you didn't have those problems with Tapatalk on your phone?




The world is a weird place sometimes.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...



Freddie_Biff said:


> The world is a weird place sometimes.


----------



## FeXL

Have you told Max Scene Waters that?

Jes' askin'...



CubaMark said:


> No mature, rational, thinking person would tell a crowd (mob!) of his supporters to go ahead and rough somebody up.


Precisely. Hypocrite...



CubaMark said:


> You can't have it both ways, pal.


----------



## FeXL

*Still Winning!*

Thanks To Tax Cuts, Companies' Overseas Profits Now Flooding Back To U.S.



> Tax Cuts: They said it wouldn't happen, but it did: The money companies stashed overseas to protect them from high U.S. corporate tax rates is flooding back in, boosting growth, jobs and confidence in the economy. Thank the Trump tax cuts.
> X
> 
> All told, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) reported, some $305.6 billion returned to the U.S. from overseas accounts. That's a $1.2 trillion annual rate, and far more than the $35 billion one year before.
> 
> The BEA's analysts explain why this happened: "The large magnitudes (of inward capital flows) ... reflect the repatriation of accumulated earnings by foreign affiliates of U.S. multinational enterprises and their parent companies in the United States in response to the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act."
> 
> In short, the Trump tax cuts did it.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Have you told Max Scene Waters that?


From your link:

_Ms. Waters made her remarks Saturday during a rally in Los Angeles, during which she entreated participants to “push back” on Trump staffers in public places such as restaurants or gas stations.

“In encouraging individuals to create ‘crowds’ who will ‘push back’ on President Trump’s Cabinet members at private business establishments and in seemingly trying to prevent these Cabinet officials from obtaining basic necessities without fear of assault and violence, Rep. Waters seems to be violation of House rules,” Mr. Fitton wrote._​
*"push back"* - you actually believe that this is a threat of violence? You're taking facetious to a whole new level, bub.

Compare "push back" to Trump's "knock the crap out of him".

Do I need to draw it in crayon so that you "get" it?

:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

You think it isn't?

You take ignorance to a whole new level, bub.

Watch. Learn.



CubaMark said:


> *"push back"* - you actually believe that this is a threat of violence? You're taking facetious to a whole new level, bub.


----------



## Macfury

Justice Kennedy is retiring! Gives Trump another opportunity to install an originalist on the Supreme Court before the mid-terms! Kennedy's squishy opinions have often deviated wildly from the US Constitution.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> Justice Kennedy is retiring! Gives Trump another opportunity to install an originalist on the Supreme Court before the mid-terms! Kennedy's squishy opinions have often deviated wildly from the US Constitution.


here we go again, time for the mentally ill Pelozi and Waters to invite the peaceful left to riot, pillage and rape peacefully against Trump again. Now if Ruth Ginsberg would retire but People like “Ruthie” lacks the intelligent, integrity and honor to step down. She has to go down in disgrace.


----------



## Macfury

I was hoping Ginsburg could be replaced first--but I'm still happy for this Trump win!


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> I was hoping Ginsburg could be replaced first--but I'm still happy for this Trump win!


I love this win.. He was right.. winning is going to get tiring.. 
One day i wish canada can say the same.. 2019 cant come soon enough.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Justice Kennedy is retiring! Gives Trump another opportunity to install an originalist on the Supreme Court before the mid-terms! Kennedy's squishy opinions have often deviated wildly from the US Constitution.


Related:

Top Prospect to Replace Kennedy?



> Per Nice Deb, a Bloomberg reporter says the top choice is Judge Brett Kavanagh.
> 
> _Judge Brett Kavanaugh is a top contender to succeed Kennedy, per a U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. https://t.co/nUxpAlS7ZF
> — Greg Stohr (@GregStohr) June 27, 2018_​
> If that name sounds somewhat familiar -- last week a district court ruled that the CFPB was unconstitutional.
> 
> In doing so, the judge ignored the main opinion of a decision from another jurisdiction and instead adopted the reasoning of the dissent which declared the CFPB was unconstitutional.
> 
> The author of that dissent? Judge Brett Kavanagh.


More:



> As this post is an update to an earlier one, let me add another update: Jazz Shaw's post on how the Janus decision ruling that compulsory donations from non-union-members to the union is unconstitutional will have a huge effect on Democratic "fundraising," given that prior to now, unions had stolen money from unwilling workers and then sent that money off against their will to Democratic politicians.
> 
> How much money are we talking about?
> 
> Hugh Hewitt says "*hundreds of millions.*"


Limbaugh thinks more.

'UUUUUUGE! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Leftists Planning To Disrupt Tonight’s Trump Rally in North Dakota



> Tonight at 7 PM CST, President Trump is holding a rally in Fargo, North Dakota for the U.S. Senate campaign of Congressman Kevin Cramer. The rally is being held at Scheels Arena, which has a capacity of 6,000.This morning it was reported by Chris Berg of local TV station Valley News live, that over 20,000 tickets have been registered.
> 
> Sources in Minnesota/North Dakota tell Big League Politics that buses of people have left Minnesota to infiltrate the rally. Their plan is already in motion. They got there early to fill up the arena first. The plan is to fill the arena up and then once the doors close and no one else can go in, that they will do a mass walkout when President Donald Trump takes the stage.


Fine. Stamp their hands when they exit. Reopen the front door, anybody with a stamp doesn't get back in. Rally continues apace.

Problem solved. Too easy. beejacon


----------



## FeXL

Even more on Justice Kennedy retiring.

Liberals freak out over Kennedy retirement: ‘abortion access, same-sex marriage…on the line now’



> Wednesday’s sudden news of Justice Anthony Kennedy’s retirement from the US Supreme Court provoked near-instantaneous responses of fear and anger from Democrat officeholders, left-wing commentators, and pro-abortion activists.
> 
> Kennedy announced he was resigning earlier today, in a brief letter to President Donald Trump. As a notorious swing vote who helped preserve abortion-on-demand and impose same-sex “marriage” (despite also writing some more conservative decisions on side aspects to both issues), Kennedy’s departure has energized social conservatives. They are hopeful that Trump’s nominee to replace him will not only be a reliable originalist, but provide the long-awaited fifth vote for overturning Roe v. Wade.


----------



## FeXL

#WalkAway Campaign Urges Fed-Up Democrats to Leave the Party



> A new grassroots movement is urging Democrats who are fed up with the ugly direction the party has taken in recent years -- especially since President Trump was elected -- to "walk away." The #WalkAway campaign is "dedicated to sharing the stories of people who can no longer accept the current ideology of liberalism and what the Democratic Party has become," the group's Facebook page states.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brandon Straka aka "The Unsilent Minority" kicked off the campaign with a video on May 26.
> 
> "It is my sincere hope that you will join me in this campaign and that we may start a movement in this country -- which not only encourages others to walk away from the divisive left, but also takes back the narrative from the liberal media about what it means to be a conservative in America," Straka says in the video.
> 
> *It is up to all of us to make our voices heard and reclaim the truth. The Democratic Party has taken for granted that it owns racial, sexual, and religious minorities in America. It has encouraged groupthink, hypocrisy, division, stereotyping, resentment, and the acceptance of victimhood mentality. And all the while, they have discouraged minorities from having independent thought, open dialogue, measured and informed opinion, and a motivation to succeed.​
> "For years now, I have watched as the left has devolved into intolerant, inflexible, illogical, hateful, misguided, ill-informed, un-American, hypocritical, menacing, callous, ignorant, narrow-minded, and at times blatantly fascistic behavior and rhetoric*," Straka says in the video below.
Click to expand...

Yeah, bold mine.

Knocks it out of the park. :clap::clap::clap:

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Shooter Opens Fire in Annapolis, MD News Room; Shooter Captured, But News Room Source Says "It's Bad"



> Fatalities reported.
> 
> _A suspect was apprehended following reports of shots fired and multiple fatalities in Annapolis, Maryland, Thursday afternoon outside the Capital Gazette newsroom, Anne Arundel Sheriff Ron Bateman told Fox News._​
> If you're thinking, "I guess they'll blame this on Trump now," collect your winnings:
> 
> _The president of the United States has been actively promoting hatred of journalists since the first day he took office pic.twitter.com/pQKjFJjf65
> — Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 28, 2018_​
> Strange we don't hear so much about the media inciting hatred of Republicans. Steve Scalise would like to have a word with them about that.


----------



## CubaMark

Brilliant.

*TrumpHotels*


----------



## Macfury

It's only brilliant if you think that attempting to enter the US illegally is a human right.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's only brilliant if you think that attempting to enter the US illegally is a human right.




Whoooosh.


----------



## FeXL

FeXL said:


> You think it isn't?
> 
> You take ignorance to a whole new level, bub.
> 
> Watch. Learn.


And I s'pose this is nothing but neighbourly, too:


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Capital Gazette shooting.

So much for the Left's latest Right Wing shooter fantasy.

Damn... :-(


----------



## FeXL

The Democrats Go Full Venezuela



> How many times do we have to learn that socialism doesn't work, that, as Margaret Thatcher said, at some point you run out of "other people's money," that sooner or later all the teary idealism, the stirring strains of _The Internationale_, devolve into gulags and death squads? Wasn't the Soviet Union enough, Communist China, Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba, etc....?
> 
> Now those death squads appear to have surfaced in Venezuela, the wealthiest country in Latin America before Hugo Chavez brought his brand of socialism to the then oil-rich nation.
> 
> _Venezuelan security forces have carried out hundreds of arbitrary killings under the guise of fighting crime, the UN's human rights body says.
> 
> In a report, it cites "shocking" accounts of young men being killed during operations, often in poor districts, over the past three years.
> 
> The UN's human rights chief said no-one was being held to account, suggesting the rule of law was "virtually absent"._​
> Caracas is now the world's most violent city. The people are starving and without medicine as inflation goes through the proverbial roof. The rich flee to Miami and the poor to Colombia. Venezuela is the shell of itself, a disaster area, currently close to the saddest story on Earth, given where it started.
> 
> Meanwhile, with exquisite timing, our Democratic Party has found the solution to _its woes_ -- socialism! Er, excuse me, _democratic_ socialism. We're going to do it differently.


SSDP...


----------



## FeXL

Further on TDS.

Not a joke. Liberal women gathered to scream at Trump through their VAGINAS.

Unhinged...

(bring your eye bleach)


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, you're so lazy in researching the basic facts in any situation, that even your "Whoosh" has no impact.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Whoooosh.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, you're so lazy in researching the basic facts in any situation, that even your "Whoosh" has no impact.



Whoosh again. Feel your hair blowing back?


----------



## smashedbanana

fexl said:


> further on tds.
> 
> not a joke. Liberal women gathered to scream at trump through their vaginas.
> 
> unhinged...
> 
> (bring your eye bleach)


fake!


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Whoosh again. Feel your hair blowing back?


Whoosh is getting tiresome here.

Use your words. If you think it's deaf ears receiving them just rather not post please.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Further on the Capital Gazette shooting.
> 
> So much for the Left's latest Right Wing shooter fantasy.
> 
> Damn... :-(


What's the ring wing shooter fantasy?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Whoosh is getting tiresome here.
> 
> 
> 
> Use your words. If you think it's deaf ears receiving them just rather not post please.




That’s funny! I was actually quoting another user with that, so I have to confess, they’re not my words. But thanks for the advice.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Whoosh is getting tiresome here.
> 
> Use your words. If you think it's deaf ears receiving them just rather not post please.


I just thought that was the sound of the wind blowing across his white flag of surrender.


----------



## Macfury

Way to deflect!



Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s funny! I was actually quoting another user with that, so I have to confess, they’re not my words. But thanks for the advice.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Happy 4th of July everyone!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Happy 4th of July everyone!


You do realize that attachments have not been appearing in posts for some time, don't you?

Anyways I spent the evening listening to a rebroadcast of a Prairie Home Companion 4th of July show from the early 90s. Good to discover GK kept control of the PHC archives when MPR gave him the axe.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> You do realize that attachments have not been appearing in posts for some time, don't you?
> 
> Anyways I spent the evening listening to a rebroadcast of a Prairie Home Companion 4th of July show from the early 90s. Good to discover GK kept control of the PHC archives when MPR gave him the axe.




No, I didn’t know that. Shows up on my iPhone. Well, try try again—Raquel is well worth it.


----------



## FeXL

Every Prog gun control fanatic prays that the latest shooting can be blamed on a white, right wing male with an AR.

It's the narrative.



smashedbanana said:


> What's the ring wing shooter fantasy?


----------



## CubaMark

Another one of Trump's very capable, doing a great job, simply first-class minions is gone.

Has anyone sat down to calculate his hire/fire/resign ratio? It must be astounding....

*Trump's scandal-plagued EPA administrator Scott Pruitt resigns*


----------



## FeXL

And he should be gone.  

What's the issue? Somebody didn't pan out? Give Trump credit for accepting his resignation. That's how it works in the real world. At least he had the stones to own up to it. Unlike your average Prog appointment. 

Jug Ears would have given him a raise & a lifetime appointment.


----------



## Macfury

Pruitt did a great job on the heavy lifting that needed to be done to clean out the debris at the EPA. Andrew Wheeler is the perfect choice to finish the job. 



FeXL said:


> And he should be gone.
> 
> What's the issue? Somebody didn't pan out? Give Trump credit for accepting his resignation. That's how it works in the real world. At least he had the stones to own up to it. Unlike your average Prog appointment.
> 
> Jug Ears would have given him a raise & a lifetime appointment.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What's the issue? Somebody didn't pan out?


Ah - so that's how you folks on the radical right wing define _corruption_, then? "..didn't pan out..." ?

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

*Scott Pruitt’s Legendary Corruption

The outgoing EPA administrator was allowed to perpetrate a staggering level of self-dealing.*

...Pruitt isn’t gone because he devoted his agency to the interests of industry. He’s gone because, in a corrupt administration where unethical behavior is common, he was the most obvious—and, at times, most outlandish—practitioner of that corruption and unethical behavior.

Pruitt’s list of scandals is extensive and almost unbelievable. He ordered unauthorized raises for two aides and then denied knowledge of the decision. He spent $3 million of taxpayer funds on an unprecedentedly large security detail that followed him everywhere, from football games to vacations at Disneyland. He had biometric locks installed on his office doors and a $43,000 private phone booth in his office. Citing (nonexistent) threats to his safety, he spent more than $160,000 on first-class and chartered flights across the United States as well as luxury accommodations for international travel. He took gifts from lobbyists and a billionaire coal executive. He tasked administrative aides with personal tasks, like picking up snacks, getting a mattress from the Trump International Hotel in Washington, and finding his wife a six-figure job. He also tried to get his wife a Chick-fil-A franchise. He had his staffers pay for his expenses on their personal credit cards. He rented a room from a fossil fuel lobbyist for $50 a night, well below the market rate for hotels in D.C, and then met with that lobbyist for official business.

(Slate)​
*Scott Pruitt Resigns — Here Are The Most Corrupt Things He Did As EPA Head*

Monday night brought another round of damaging revelations for the embattled head of the EPA, Scott Pruitt. The Washington Post reported that Pruitt, who somehow ​still has his job, used his position to try to get his wife a job with at least a $200,000 salary and that he had employees book his hotel rooms on their personal cards — and then didn't reimburse them. 

The story is the latest in a long string of revelations about how Pruitt is using his office to make money for himself. Since this has been going on for a while, we've rounded up some of the worst things Pruitt has been accused of over the last year and a half.

(Read on at Digg)​


----------



## Macfury

CM, you'd have a lot more street cred if you paid attention to this sort of thing during the previous administration. Your silence then speaks greater volumes than anything you say now.


----------



## FeXL

Call it what you want. I don't care. That's not the point.

The point is, he's now gone. That's how the system _should_ work. Instead of, say, golden handshakes & lifetime appointments.

How many of Barry's appointees FUBAR'd & subsequently stepped up to the plate & quit? And don't even try BS'ing me with, "What FUBAR? They were all perfect!"

As MF noted, where was the outrage then?

BTW, "radical right wing"? Serious? You claim to want a serious discourse yet you bandy terms about that don't even come close to describing _anybody_ on these boards, let alone myself. Do you actually want to discuss the issues or do you just want to pepper us with meaningless insults that throw into sharp relief the weakness of your own argument?

Or is it merely your innate hypocrisy rearing its head again?



CubaMark said:


> Ah - so that's how you folks on the radical right wing define _corruption_, then? "..didn't pan out..." ?


----------



## FeXL

So, Trump yesterday hosted a rally in Great Falls, MT., about 2-1/2 hours south of here. I would have considered attending if not for other obligations, as we were stateside anyways.

Trump Tells Montana ‘A Vote for Jon Tester’ is a Vote for Schumer, Pelosi, Waters



> President Donald Trump tied Democrat Sen. Jon Tester to Democrat leaders during a Thursday night rally in Montana for Republican Senate candidate Matt Rosendale.
> 
> “A vote for Jon Tester is a vote for [Sen.] Chuck Schumer and [Rep.] Nancy Pelosi,” said Trump, who then added that it is also a vote for one of the new faces of the Democratic party, Rep. Maxine Waters.


I've noted before, Montana has always struggled with its political identity because the two most populous cities in the state, Billings & Missoula, are college towns that invariably vote left.

On a personal, anecdotal note, I sat down with a friend of over 20 years & discussed US politics at the cabin earlier in the week. She'd come out for a visit. She was born in Canada & immigrated to the US back in the 80's. I knew she was a Dem supporter but we'd never talked politics.

Inside of 2 minutes it became apparent that she'd partaken of all the propaganda & kool-aid that the MSM could mete out. It was TDS at its finest. She began with the tale of Trump separating & caging children from their parents at the border. I asked her if she knew that was actually a Bush policy & carried out for 8 years under Jug Ears and that Trump had written an EO to stop it.

She replied in the negative.

I asked her if she had seen _that_ photo, the one with the children in the steel cages. She said, of course. I asked her if she knew that photo was vintage Obama, _not_ Trump.

She replied in the negative.

We covered a couple more points, all of which ended in the same fashion: her replying in the negative.

I got my dig in: I told her to pay less attention to the Clinton News Network & the balance of the 90% left-owned media in the US. She replied that she didn't watch CNN & I told her she's getting her disinformation from somewhere.

We asked her to stay for supper. She replied that yes, she would, as long as we didn't discuss politics.

Fine by me.

I'd never actually met one of them in person before, a true, dyed in the wool, Trump hater.

As on these boards, she didn't stand a chance against an informed opponent. At least she had the grace to stand down respectably.


----------



## FeXL

About that big blue wave coming med-terms time...

Polls: Democrats Underperforming With Hispanics, Blacks, and White Male Milennials 



> First of all, an admittedly dated YouGov/Economist poll from May 6-8, as written up by the The Federalist, shows Trump's numbers improving with blacks.
> 
> The numbers aren't great with blacks, of course. But the Democrat Party absolutely relies on 90%+ support from blacks for winning elections, and if it creeps below that, they're in trouble:
> 
> ...
> 
> The Democrats also rely on Milennials, of course. And they're losing support with the big white male demographic of that age cohort:
> 
> ..
> 
> Now on to today's news, from the National Journal's Josh Kraushaar, about Democrats' failure to lock down the Hispanic vote at the levels they need.


Ah knows: it's polls.

Take from it whatever you will.

Interesting read, nonetheless.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fauxcahontas:

Trump says he'll offer Elizabeth Warren $1 million to take DNA test



> President Trump joked Thursday night that he’ll offer $1 million to Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren to take a DNA test to determine whether she has Native American blood, if she becomes the Democratic nominee for president in 2020.
> 
> At a campaign rally in Montana, Mr. Trump took shots at several Democrats, including incumbent Sen. Jon Tester, who is running for reelection. But the president saved one of his sharpest barbs for Ms. Warren, whom he often ridicules as “Pocahontas” for her earlier claim of Native American ancestry.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

She experienced the same cognitive dissonance that CM and Freddie experience when they take their long holidays from EhMac after having their asses handed to them.



FeXL said:


> We asked her to stay for supper. She replied that yes, she would, as long as we didn't discuss politics.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Further on Fauxcahontas:
> 
> Trump says he'll offer Elizabeth Warren $1 million to take DNA test


I see you are continuing to promote the use of that offensive label. Shame you weren't raised with manners.

NBC has a pretty good rundown of this stupid issue that you RRWs like to keep bringing up. It's like the birther movement all over again. 

Here's a relevant excerpt, but I urge you to read it completely, though I suspect it will do little to change your behaviour....

*Fact check: Trump wants Warren to prove her Native American heritage. Could she?*

HOW DID THE DEBATE OVER WARREN'S HERITAGE START?

Warren, who grew up in Oklahoma, land that was once Indian Territory, reportedly listed herself in a directory as a minority professor for nine years (from 1986 to 1995) before eventually landing a job at Harvard.

During Warren's hotly contested Senate bid in Massachusetts in 2012, The Boston Herald uncovered a 1996 student newspaper article quoting a Harvard Law School spokesman who boasted that Warren, who was a professor, was Native American. Her campaign scrambled and failed to offer conclusive proof for the claim, which Warren said stemmed from stories her mother told her as a child.

"Being Native American is part of who our family is and I'm glad to tell anyone about that. I am just very proud of it," Warren told reporters at the time.

In a campaign ad, Warren said she had never asked her mom for documentation that her family was part-Cherokee and part-Delaware, but that it was the reason her parents had to elope.

WHAT DO HER CRITICS SAY?

Political rivals over the years have attempted to paint Warren as a liar and an opportunist.

"Elizabeth Warren said she was a Native American, a person of color," then-Sen. Scott Brown, R-Mass., said of Warren during one 2012 debate. "As you can see, she's not."

After Warren emerged as a harsh Trump critic during the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump took to calling her "Pocahontas," the name of a storied Native American woman.

"She used the fact that she was Native American to advance her career. Elizabeth Warren is a total fraud. I know it. Other people who work with her know it. Elizabeth Warren is a total fraud," the president told NBC News during his presidential bid.

Native American leaders have said the "Pocahontas" nickname is culturally insensitive and racist. Warren herself called it a slur.

* * *​
WHAT DO HISTORIANS AND GENEALOGISTS SAY?

Native Americans are still the second-largest minority group in Oklahoma, according to the 2010 Census, and tales of Native ancestry are common, experts said.

"My family has a narrative that we're Choctaw, but we don’t have any proof of that," Larry O'Dell, the Oklahoma Historical Society's director of special projects and development, said when asked about tracing Native heritage. "My boss and I were talking earlier, and he has the same kind of narrative. It's just sort of the way it is in Oklahoma."

Independent genealogist Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak, who has traced former first lady Michelle Obama's family back to slaves and former President Barack Obama's ancestors to Ireland, said one of the biggest myths in genealogy is how many families believe their ancestor was a Cherokee princess.

* * *​
DID HER SELF-IDENTIFIED MINORITY STATUS HELP HER CAREER?

Warren has adamantly insisted that she never used her heritage to get ahead, and there’s no evidence that it was a deciding factor in her employment at Harvard.

"That's totally stupid, ignorant, uninformed and simply wrong," the Harvard Law School professor who recruited her for the position, Charles Fried, told The Associated Press in 2012. "I presented her case to the faculty. I did not mention her Native American connection because I did not know about it.”

Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General who served under Ronald Reagan, reportedly donated to her Senate campaign.

(Read more at NBC)​


----------



## FeXL

Whatever you say, Mr. Radical Right Winger. Shall I cite a few of your more colourful examples of manners?

<just shaking my head...>



CubaMark said:


> I see you are continuing to promote the use of that offensive label. Shame you weren't raised with manners.


NBC has & is, crap.

Years ago I read better & far more accurate articles on the topic, without the Prog spin, thankyouverymuch.

This falls under the same loonie-lefty head-case department as the Prog nutty former NAACP president white woman who thinks she's black, Rachel Dolezal who, incidently, just got charged with felony welfare fraud charges.

Quelle surprise.

Why aren't you defending her, too? Or is that one a little too far off Broadway, even for you?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> NBC has a pretty good rundown of this stupid issue that you RRWs like to keep bringing up.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> ....She began with the tale of Trump separating & caging children from their parents at the border. I asked her if she knew that was actually a Bush policy & carried out for 8 years under Jug Ears and that Trump had written an EO to stop it.


You conveniently left out Trump's change of policy that removed the discretionary prosecution of adults which for the most part previously did not result in the separation of families. But hey, that doesn't fit your narrative... Not surprising that his much-hyped EO reversing his policy played so well with his unquestioning disciples.... XX)



FeXL said:


> I asked her if she had seen _that_ photo, the one with the children in the steel cages. She said, of course. I asked her if she knew that photo was vintage Obama, _not_ Trump.


The reason there are few photos of the recent incarceration of children in cages is because, as has been reported frequently, reporters were allowed access to detention facilities without cameras or cellphones. They were only allowed to take notes on pen and paper. There are photos out there - easily found if you know what Google / Bing / Duck-Duck-Go is and how to use it. The fact that some folks on social media spread some images that were pre-Trump as they reacted to the new Trump policy that led to the separation of children is unfortunate but understandable—not enough people check their sources— and should not take away from the reality of those separations. But again, that doesn't fit your narrative.



FeXL said:


> I got my dig in: I told her to pay less attention to the Clinton News Network & the balance of the 90% left-owned media in the US. She replied that she didn't watch CNN & I told her she's getting her disinformation from somewhere.


Here's what you still don't get. What you call the "left-owned" media may be predisposed to the Democratic party, but that sure as hell isn't "left". The Democrats and the Republicans are for the most part the same damn party, with differences of opinion on economic and social policy, but at their core it's the same free-market, USA as the biggest dick on the block, protect the empire and ensure Wall Street remains free to do as it pleases.



FeXL said:


> We asked her to stay for supper. She replied that yes, she would, as long as we didn't discuss politics.


Why am I not surprised? :lmao:



FeXL said:


> As on these boards, she didn't stand a chance against an informed opponent.


Let me fix that for you. The word you're looking for is not "informed". It's "deluded".

You're welcome.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> She experienced the same cognitive dissonance that CM and Freddie experience when they take their long holidays from EhMac after having their asses handed to them.


It was the most amazing experience. You read about these fruit loops & whackos with TDS all the time. It took mere minutes to let the wind out of her sail, left hanging there like we were in the doldrums.

The good thing is, as I noted, we've known each other for a long time, so there was no screeching, yelling or name-calling.


----------



## FeXL

Seek help.

Seriously.

If this is what passes for measured discourse among sociologists, it's no wonder I hold you all in derision.

The Progs screamed blue murder that they didn't want children separated from their parents (despite the fact that their own god, Barry Soetoro, had done that _very_ thing for 8 years). Trump's EO addressed that & suddenly, the Progs heads exploded because, as I noted some time back, that wasn't what they _actually_ wanted. Curious, that. They expected the borders to be opened! Saying one thing & wanting something _entirely_ different. Prog SOP.

I said the Obama vintage photo showed them in steel cages, period. There was a provenance to that photo & easily identifiable as to its era. As far as using a search engine to find alleged Trump era ones, again, that wasn't the point. The Progs were, once again, screaming blue murder that Trump was locking kids up in steel cages & held that photo up as evidence. It failed. Do try to keep up.

As to your white-washing of Progs not checking sources, no, I'm not surprised, but would you let me off that easy? Not a chance. Hypocrite, much? Why is it not in your Prog nature to apply the same standards to everyone?

As far as the Dems & Reps being the same party, not even close. The latter actually does want to protect the empire. The former? Yeah, not so much. Open the borders & let every Tom, Mohammed & Juan run in, full-bore & unchecked. Murderer, rapist, drug-dealer, gang-banger, whatever, or not. And that's only a _single_ major difference.

The reason she wouldn't talk politics is because she got her butt handed to her. Her erstwhile blemish free Prog world had developed a serious fracture. As MF noted, it's the same reason you & Freddie on these boards, among others, disappear for periods of time: to lick your wounds.

And, if you're actually & truly seeking the deluded one, you'll find him the same place as Freddie did: in the hallway mirror.

_You're_ welcome. 

Related:

The Camel’s Nose In The Kid’s Cage, Plus DadLogic



> It was all fake. Every bit of it. The kid in the cage, staring forlornly out from his literally padded cell in the company of children wearing $69.95 Vans Sk8-Hi shoes? Fake. The picture of TRUMP CHILD CONCENTRATION CAMPS? It was from President Obama’s administration. The refugee child crying on the cover of TIME while Trump looks on with disdain? Not a refugee, and never separated from her family.
> 
> But if the coverage was entirely fake, the motive behind it was tiresomely real. After two years of trying every avenue of attack possible, the media has learned NAZI FUHRER DRUMPPPPPPFFFF’s weak spot: he is sentimental and doesn’t like to make people unhappy. The whole point of the fake-cage tempest-in-a-teapot was to get Trump to move the line on immigration a bit. Which he did, promptly stating that he would work to overturn the 1997-era legislation that governs the separate detention of children. Approximately an hour after he agreed to that, the media line changed.





CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-blah, blah-fukcing-blah


----------



## FeXL

Even more on Fauxcahontas:

Trump Hilariously Baits Fauxcahontas on #FakeNews Cherokee Claims; Media Claims It's, Get This, an Attack on #MeToo



> The media can't rebut the charge that Elizabeth Warren lied for years about her background to get favorable diversity-hire treatement that a WHITE WOMAN shouldn't get, so they edit Trump's attack to make it about... _*rape?*_


Emphasis from the link.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You conveniently left out Trump's change of policy that removed the discretionary prosecution of adults which for the most part previously did not result in the separation of families. But hey, that doesn't fit your narrative... Not surprising that his much-hyped EO reversing his policy played so well with his unquestioning disciples.... XX)


Of course, there was never really a family separation policy. People arrested for illegal entry can't be released with the promise to appear at a hearing because experience shows they will disappear. Citizens are also separated from their children if they break the law. Two choices: lock them up with the offending adult; or make sure they are safe and try to get a family member to take charge of them.Until that time, they are placed in a child care facility. 

But you never figured out exactly what happened here, even though it was plainly in front of your face. Definitely a win for Trump.


----------



## FeXL

CM, I told you to watch & learn re: violence. Here's a perfect example of where it starts.

VIDEO: Teen attacked at Whataburger for wearing 'Make America Great Again' hat



> Police are investigating after a teen says he was verbally attacked and assaulted at a Whataburger for wearing a Make America Great Again hat.
> 
> In the video, you can see a man throw a drink in 16-year-old Hunter Richard's face before leaving the restaurant with his hat. Hunter said some of his hair was pulled during the assault.
> 
> "I support my President and if you don’t let’s have a conversation about it instead of ripping my hat off. I just think a conversation about politics is more productive for the entire whole rather than taking my hat and yelling subjective words to me," he said.


Can you imagine the hue & cry from the left if this would have been a rainbow coloured hat?

More:

Update: Alleged MAGA-Hat-Stealing, Teenager-Assaulting Thug *Kino Jiminez* Arrested

Yeah, bold mine.



> This evening detectives assigned to the Robbery Task Force were able to locate the suspect in the “Whataburger” incident.
> 
> Warrant #1653732 was issued for the suspect Kino Jimenez 30 years (Sid# 905396). The aforementioned warrant is for Theft of Person.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> But you never figured out exactly what happened here, even though it was plainly in front of your face.


Prog coloured glasses...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Prog coloured glasses...


Yup. Trump has gotten the left to eliminate its own favoured catch-and-release policy for illegal entrants. Thanks to their demands, both parent and child are now kept together in a secure, escape-proof facility.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yup. Trump has gotten the left to eliminate its own favoured catch-and-release policy for illegal entrants. Thanks to their demands, both parent and child are now kept together in a secure, escape-proof facility.


The Art of the Deal...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Do all lives matter?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do all lives matter?



According to some apparently very hypocritical right wing protesters, they do.


----------



## FeXL

Yes, It’s True: Peter Strzok Failed His Polygraph Yet Retained Security Clearance and Position on Two Investigations…



> Yes, FBI Agent Peter Strzok failed his polygraph and his supervisors were notified on January 16th, 2016, his results were “out of scope“. Meaning he failed his polygraph test. Yet he was never removed from any responsibilities; and against dept policy, he did not have his clearance revoked until he could clear.


:clap:


----------



## CubaMark

(Twitter)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> (Twitter)


----------



## Macfury

The value of the "Me Too" movement has been destroyed by "peak progressive."


----------



## eMacMan

Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use.


----------



## eMacMan

Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use. Why people can't trim images down is beyond me.


----------



## eMacMan

Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use. As I said..


----------



## eMacMan

Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use. As I said.......


----------



## Macfury

Meme-o-mania--big pictures to convey tiny ideas.



eMacMan said:


> Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use. As I said.......


----------



## Freddie_Biff

What a bunch of whiners!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Speaking of widening the screen beyond use...


----------



## Macfury

People are willing to forgive him, because Trump has already done more in two years than Barry did in eight!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> People are willing to forgive him, because Trump has already done more in two years than Barry did in eight!




More golfing you mean.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Bunch o Bumps to get past the monster images that have widened the screen beyond use.


Go to prefs & turn 'em off.

Frankly, you will miss little by not seeing them, especially those from the Progs on the boards.

If you're into self-abuse, you can always click on the image & download it, then immediately delete it upon realizing your folly.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Tell us about your 40% wage cutback again, Freddie!



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a bunch of whiners!


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry.

Point to me again all your posts criticizing Jug Ears' golfing habits?



Freddie_Biff said:


> More golfing you mean.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> The iron...
> 
> Tell us about your 40% wage cutback again, Freddie!


Pretty sure MF using the FB formula established that when it all came out in the wash Freddie wound up with a 238% wage hike.


----------



## CubaMark

_*The insanity. It's moving closer to the surface...*_










*Related:* Trump Crowds Have Definitely Not Broken ‘Elton John Records’


> Though he attacked war veterans, Native Americans, rape victims and Sir Elton John, Trump made a point on Thursday to praise authoritarian leaders like Kim (who Trump says would never have met with Obama), Chinese President Xi (“You have to admire him”) and, of course, Vladimir Putin. “You know what? Putin is fine,” the president said. “He’s fine. We’re all fine. We’re people.”


----------



## eMacMan

Still can't be bothered with the basic courtesy of reducing the image size to a max of 100 pixels.

It ain't that difficult, Preview is up to the task!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark and Freddie feel insecure if their "big thinks" don't take up a lot of space.



eMacMan said:


> Still can't be bothered with the basic courtesy of reducing the image size to a max of 100 pixels.
> 
> It ain't that difficult, Preview is up to the task!


----------



## eMacMan

Still I wonder who will bother to scroll half way to Kansas to read bloated memes?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Pretty sure MF using the FB formula established that when it all came out in the wash Freddie wound up with a 238% wage hike.




You have a child’s mind. Your little neo-con friends also.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _*The insanity. It's moving closer to the surface...*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:* Trump Crowds Have Definitely Not Broken ‘Elton John Records’




Well, he is right about the brain part. One should avoid damaging it if possible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> CubaMark and Freddie feel insecure if their "big thinks" don't take up a lot of space.




Maybe you should try ehMac on your phone, Mr. Dinosaur.


----------



## Macfury

Yet you're the one who resorts to communicating in big pitchers!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You have a child’s mind. Your little neo-con friends also.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Point to me again all your posts criticizing Jug Ears' golfing habits?



You live in an imaginary world. When did I claim to be critical of Obama golfing or even golfing in general? The point is Trump’s hypocrisy in criticizing how much Obama golfed when he golfs far more himself. 

Seriously. The irony of your complaints sometimes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yet you're the one who resorts to communicating in big pitchers!



And you’re the one who cries every time he sees one. Mommy! The big picture is scaring me! How do you adults stay so calm around them?


----------



## Macfury

It's the content of what you post, not the size that is embarrassing to the forum.




Freddie_Biff said:


> And you’re the one who cries every time he sees one. Mommy! The big picture is scaring me! How do you adults stay so calm around them?


----------



## Macfury

The broader point is that you look with hawk eyes to your meme feed to find hypocrisy in Trump--never in Obama.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You live in an imaginary world. When did I claim to be critical of Obama golfing or even golfing in general? The point is Trump’s hypocrisy in criticizing how much Obama golfed when he golfs far more himself.
> 
> Seriously. The irony of your complaints sometimes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's the content of what you post, not the size that is embarrassing to the forum.



You are embarrassing to the forum, but we still put up with you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The broader point is that you look with hawk eyes to your meme feed to find hypocrisy in Trump--never in Obama.




Why would I? I like Obama. What you request is like expecting you to post flattering memes of people you dislike. It ain’t gonna happen.


----------



## Macfury

Bingo!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why would I? I like Obama. What you request is like expecting you to post flattering memes of people you dislike. It ain’t gonna happen.


----------



## FeXL

Whooooosh...



Freddie_Biff said:


> When did I claim to be critical of Obama golfing or even golfing in general?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> CubaMark and Freddie feel insecure if their "big thinks" don't take up a lot of space.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

It's like the guys who own Lamborghini's: What are they overcompensating for?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Whooooosh...



How is that a woosh? It’s the HYPOCRISY, not the golfing. Oh the iron...


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Still can't be bothered with the basic courtesy of reducing the image size to a max of 100 pixels.
> 
> It ain't that difficult, Preview is up to the task!


My version of Safari is nothing special - I have no idea why you (and pm-r) are experiencing the forum not shrinking the image dynamically.

Shrinking the image and posting it just for a couple of folks is a bit of a pain, yes - rather than hotlinking to the source, we'd have to download, resize, drop it into Dropbox or somewhere in the cloud, get a link again, and post. 

I can't say that the camaraderie in here has been up to the level where I'm feeling like putting in the extra effort....


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> It's like the guys who own Lamborghini's:


There's no apostrophe in the plural of Lamborghinis.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> My version of Safari is nothing special - I have no idea why you (and pm-r) are experiencing the forum not shrinking the image dynamically.
> 
> Shrinking the image and posting it just for a couple of folks is a bit of a pain, yes - rather than hotlinking to the source, we'd have to download, resize, drop it into Dropbox or somewhere in the cloud, get a link again, and post.
> 
> I can't say that the camaraderie in here has been up to the level where I'm feeling like putting in the extra effort....


You have to be aware by now that the site has gone a bit flaky, and that the admins have done nothing to address any of the various issues.

If posting a screen capture via DropBox requires too much effort, you can just post the link to your precious memes. I am sure that the handful who are interested will still find them and the rest of us won't see a 6 line paragraph spread into a single 4000 pixel wide line of text.


----------



## Macfury

Hell, why start putting in effort at this late date?



CubaMark said:


> I can't say that the camaraderie in here has been up to the level where I'm feeling like putting in the extra effort....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> My version of Safari is nothing special - I have no idea why you (and pm-r) are experiencing the forum not shrinking the image dynamically.
> 
> 
> 
> Shrinking the image and posting it just for a couple of folks is a bit of a pain, yes - rather than hotlinking to the source, we'd have to download, resize, drop it into Dropbox or somewhere in the cloud, get a link again, and post.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say that the camaraderie in here has been up to the level where I'm feeling like putting in the extra effort....


----------



## FeXL

Bookmark it! CM found another mistake!

Note the time & date! FeXL is a raaaaascist!!!



CubaMark said:


> There's no apostrophe in the plural of Lamborghinis.


----------



## FeXL

Why, yes. Yes, it is...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s the HYPOCRISY, not the golfing.


----------



## FeXL

As usual, it's all about _you_, idn't it? _You_ can't be bothered...

Curious that all us Nazi's, far right wingnuts, neo-cons, bigots, racists, misogynists, xenophobes (have I missed any?) are able to ensure our images are of a size acceptable to all and the only ones who refuse are Progs, no?

Don't bother. It's a rhetorical question...



CubaMark said:


> I can't say that the camaraderie in here has been up to the level where I'm feeling like putting in the extra effort....


----------



## FeXL

The iron...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are embarrassing to the forum, but we still put up with you.


----------



## Rps

In a nut shell this is why you need to worry about the Trump administration....

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...o-backed-resolution-to-support-breast-feeding


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> In a nut shell this is why you need to worry about the Trump administration....
> 
> https://nationalpost.com/news/world...o-backed-resolution-to-support-breast-feeding


This seems entirely reasonable to me:



> “The resolution as originally drafted placed unnecessary hurdles for mothers seeking to provide nutrition to their children,” an HHS spokesman said in an email. “We recognize not all women are able to breast-feed for a variety of reasons. These women should have the choice and access to alternatives for the health of their babies, and not be stigmatized for the ways in which they are able to do so.”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> In a nut shell this is why you need to worry about the Trump administration....
> 
> 
> 
> https://nationalpost.com/news/world...o-backed-resolution-to-support-breast-feeding




The US is looking like the dictatorship of the world more and more under Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you've oft admitted you know nothing about US politics.

Why embarrass yourself any further?



Freddie_Biff said:


> The US is looking like the dictatorship of the world more and more under Trump.


----------



## FeXL

So, what's a life, taken at the hands of an illegal alien with a record, worth these days?

$140 USD...

Illegal Alien Released by Sanctuary City Gets $280 Fine for Killing Two Law Enforcement Officers



> Roberto Garza Palacios, a 28-year-old illegal alien from Guatemala, was given a slap on the wrist after he caused a car crash in December 2017 that immediately killed 33-year-old Sander Cohen, the Maryland State Fire Marshal’s Office deputy chief, and later left FBI agent Carlos Wolff, 36-years-old, dead at a nearby hospital.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, you've oft admitted you know nothing about US politics.
> 
> 
> 
> Why embarrass yourself any further?




When did I say that I know nothing about US politics? Cite please.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. You're just going to have to take my word for it. I don't owe you anything. You can't make me. Quit telling me what to do. You don't own me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> When did I say that I know nothing about US politics? Cite please.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Nope. You're just going to have to take my word for it. I don't owe you anything. You can't make me. Quit telling me what to do. You don't own me.



Lazy. You are making false allegations and I'm calling you on it.


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Evidence suggests Hillary Clinton may be secretly getting ready to run again in 2020



> Growing evidence suggests that failed Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton may be considering another run for the White House come 2020, according to Fox News contributor Michael Goodwin.
> 
> Within the past 30 days alone, the former secretary of state has repeatedly urged her loyal fans to either donate money or participate in the Democrats’ latest faux protest, noted Goodwin.
> 
> Last month Clinton reportedly raised more than $1.5 million within a matter of days by posting a request for her Twitter followers to donate money to organizations that were ostensibly trying to help illegal immigrant families separated at the border by the Trump administration.


First rule, when your enemy is busy shooting themselves in the foot, you never intervene.
Second rule, you never look a gift horse in the mouth.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> When did I say that I know nothing about US politics? Cite please.


Pretty poor memory there, I recall you making that statement as well. Next you'll be denying trying to twist a 5% salary cut into a 40% cut.


----------



## FeXL

Lazy? I'm using your very words! Pot, kettle.

Call away. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

C'mon, Freddie. Put up another 2500 pixel wide meme for us.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Lazy. You are making false allegations and I'm calling you on it.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Pretty poor memory there...


Yep. Recently claimed he couldn't recall if I was married. How many times have I used the phrase, "My lovely bride" on these boards?

Memory of convenience.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Yep. Recently claimed he couldn't recall if I was married. How many times have I used the phrase, "My lovely bride" on these boards?
> 
> Memory of convenience.


Had a dog way back when, who could hear everything but her name. Cat that could sleep through any noise but the can opener. Freddies brain seems to have similar wiring. 

Nice to be able to pull down that 238% salary rise with such a fragile noggin.


----------



## Macfury

https://www.ehmac.ca/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2653730



Freddie_Biff said:


> *I’m not that familiar with the American system* or these examples, but thanks for at least answering the question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Lazy? I'm using your very words! Pot, kettle.
> 
> 
> 
> Call away. :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon, Freddie. Put up another 2500 pixel wide meme for us.



I never said I know nothing about US politics. I don't know everything, but I do know something. You misquote. Frequently.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Had a dog way back when, who could hear everything but her name. Cat that could sleep through any noise but the can opener. Freddies brain seems to have similar wiring.
> 
> Nice to be able to pull down that 238% salary rise with such a fragile noggin.




And you, sir, are still an asshole. Hard to fix that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> https://www.ehmac.ca/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2653730




I'm not that familiar. I know nothing. See any difference between these two statements?


----------



## Macfury

In principle, a slight difference. Based on your posts here... no difference.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not that familiar. I know nothing. See any difference between these two statements?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not that familiar. I know nothing. See any difference between these two statements?


Pretty much splitting hairs, as you were the one who claimed you did not claim to know nothing about American Politics.

Sort of like Trudeau saying he did not grope that woman and in the same sentence saying he apologized to her at the time it happened.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> In principle, a slight difference. Based on your posts here... no difference.


Confused. Ignoramus. Right back at ya.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Pretty much splitting hairs, as you were the one who claimed you did not claim to know nothing about American Politics.
> 
> Sort of like Trudeau saying he did not grope that woman and in the same sentence saying he apologized to her at the time it happened.


Ummm, no. Stop trying to equivocate. You're not very good at it.


----------



## FeXL

Stop trying to defend a defenceless position. You suck at that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm, no. Stop trying to equivocate. You're not very good at it.


----------



## FeXL

How can I misquote if I'm using the poster's exact words? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You misquote. Frequently.


----------



## FeXL

Yep.

This much: —><— 

About 5% or 3 percentage points. :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm not that familiar. I know nothing. See any difference between these two statements?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Yep.
> 
> This much: —><—
> 
> About 5% or 3 percentage points. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


I trust your lovely bride was fully aware of your assoholic tendencies but decided to marry you anyway.


----------



## FeXL

So, Freddie, few questions for you, first:

1) Exactly what is an "assoholic"? One who is addicted to ass? One who cannot get enough ass? One who cannot make it through a day without some ass? One who hoards ass & stores it for quick retrieval if the need for some ass presents itself? One who secrets some ass under the seat of their car just in case the need for a little top-up of ass arises? One who goes into withdrawal if ass is suddenly removed from their life? One who must attend a 12 step program known as AA (Assoholics Anonymous) along with other "assoholics" in order to break the addiction? Hello, my name is Freddie Biff and I'm an "assoholic"? Something else, perhaps? Jes' askin'.

2) What part of the following quote from you is contradicted by your use of "assoholic"? If you have difficulty figuring it out, I've bolded the salient portion, Mr Civility.



Freddie_Biff said:


> In any event, *extra civility never hurt anybody*.


Now, to your question. My lovely bride & I dated for nearly 4-1/2 years before we tied the knot. As now (nearly 25 years later), there were no surprises then. She knows full well my intolerance of bull$h!t.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I trust your lovely bride was fully aware of your assoholic tendencies but decided to marry you anyway.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Now, to your question. My lovely bride & I dated for nearly 4-1/2 years before we tied the knot. As now (nearly 25 years later), there were no surprises then. She knows full well my intolerance of bull$h!t.


Many women I know would head for divorce court if their spouses allowed Freddie's sad stream of unmitigated BS to go unchallenged. It's an Alpha Male thing.


----------



## FeXL

This is going to get ugly.

And when it happens, the sorry bastards aren't going to know what hit 'em.

Today In Leftist "Confrontation" News, AKA Agitating for Political Violence



> Mitch McConnell chased from Kentucky restaurant by "protesters." From CNN:
> 
> _One man can be heard calling the senator "turtle head" and repeatedly saying "we know where you live" as the senator and two dining companions climb into their parked vehicle._​
> A man harassed Kellyanne Conaway at a grocery store.
> 
> Stephen Miller was harassed by a bartender at a sushi takeout joint, who followed the Trump aide into the street, giving him the finger and cursing him.
> 
> Miller threw out the $80 of sushi he'd just bought -- probably suspecting it had been adulterated by this hateful crew.
> 
> Also, they're posting "Wanted" posters of his face around his residence, which certainly seems like a method to encourage a crazy to shoot at him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, Freddie, few questions for you, first:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Exactly what is an "assoholic"? One who is addicted to ass? One who cannot get enough ass? One who cannot make it through a day without some ass? One who hoards ass & stores it for quick retrieval if the need for some ass presents itself? One who secrets some ass under the seat of their car just in case the need for a little top-up of ass arises? One who goes into withdrawal if ass is suddenly removed from their life? One who must attend a 12 step program known as AA (Assoholics Anonymous) along with other "assoholics" in order to break the addiction? Hello, my name is Freddie Biff and I'm an "assoholic"? Something else, perhaps? Jes' askin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) What part of the following quote from you is contradicted by your use of "assoholic"? If you have difficulty figuring it out, I've bolded the salient portion, Mr Civility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to your question. My lovely bride & I dated for nearly 4-1/2 years before we tied the knot. As now (nearly 25 years later), there were no surprises then. She knows full well my intolerance of bull$h!t.



You seem to want to turn everything into an argument. It gets pretty boring after a while. And predictable. 

Congratulations on nearly 25 years of marriage. My wife and I have been married 28 years. Nothing better.


----------



## FeXL

You called me an assoholic. I was merely looking for clarification as to WTH that actually is. In the absence of a response from you, I'm still puzzled. 

In addition, it didn't sound like a compliment & that's why I brought up your civility post. Not an argument. Merely pointing out your innate hypocrisy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You seem to want to turn everything into an argument.


Which must be why you continue to engage me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It gets pretty boring after a while. And predictable.


----------



## FeXL

So, Trump has nominated another SCOTUS judge & Prog heads are, once again, exploding everywhere.

Justice [XX]



> After days of frenzied lobbying and speculation, President Donald Trump decided on federal appeals Judge Brett Kavanaugh for his second nominee to the Supreme Court, setting up a ferocious confirmation battle with Democrats as he seeks to shift the nation’s highest court further to the right.


Yep. Some people didn't even care who it was they were going to hate, they had their statement already prepared with a simple "add name here" to complete it. Only thing was, the Prog rocket surgeons were in such a hurry to get their hate on, they never even bothered to put a name in it.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Guess those pink pussy hats were screwed on a bit tight yesterday.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## FeXL

Just take 'em back to the Rio Grande & drop 'em off.

Again...

Illegal Alien Charged with Raping Teen Sisters Deported Four Times from U.S.



> An illegal alien who is one of four men accused of kidnapping and raping teen sisters was previously deported from the United States four times.
> 
> Four illegal aliens — including 24-year-old illegal alien Simon Juan Thomas from Guatemala — are alleged to have kidnapped and raped a 13-year-old girl and her 14-year-old sister at a Days Inn near Wooster Street in Bowling Green, as Breitbart News reported.
> 
> While authorities continue a nationwide manhunt to find illegal aliens Arnulfo Ramos and Juan Adiel, Thomas and 27-year-old illegal alien David Ramos Contreras have been arrested and are in police custody.


Related:

24 Alleged MS-13 Members Indicted in Md. – Drugs, Murder, Bodies Dismembered



> Twenty-four alleged MS-13 members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Baltimore, Md., for allegedly committing five murders, conspiring to murder eight people, engaging in kidnappings, extortion, drug trafficking and money laundering.
> 
> In the murders, three bodies were dismembered. Another victim was assaulted with a machete. MS-13, the La Mara Salvatrucha, is an international gang notorious for its brutality and violence. President Donald Trump has described MS-13 gang members as “animals.”


Yep. I jes' luvs me sum open borders.

Prog defending this BS in 3, 2...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Kavanaugh's nomination.

Top Six Unhinged Reactions to Kavanaugh Nomination



> The floodgates burst open Monday night when President Trump announced his selection of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to be his second Supreme Court justice appointment and liberal tears spilled out all over the internet.
> 
> Twitter, as always, was the best place to look for unhinged histrionics from the left.
> 
> Here are some of the best reactions of "the Resistance" on Twitter:
> 
> Terry McAuliffe: Lives will be threatened!
> 
> Former Virginia governor and Clinton crony Terry McAuliffe is pretty sure people are going to die if Judge Kavanaugh, a Catholic charities volunteer, parish lector, and girls' basketball coach, gets on the court.
> 
> _The nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh will threaten the lives of millions of Americans for decades to come and will morph our Supreme Court into a political arm of the right-wing Republican Party.
> — Terry McAuliffe (@TerryMcAuliffe) July 10, 2018_​
> Did I mention this man was once the governor of Virginia?


He must be the _right_ guy if the left is making this much noise.


----------



## Macfury

Yep. I have some reservations regarding the way he interpreted the individual mandate on Obamacare, but the lefty fugue has convinced me he's the right person for the job.



FeXL said:


> Further on Kavanaugh's nomination.
> 
> Top Six Unhinged Reactions to Kavanaugh Nomination
> 
> 
> 
> He must be the _right_ guy if the left is making this much noise.


----------



## FeXL

Related:

I can assure you morons that nobody is trying to get into your lady bits, so sit down.



> _Handmaids' Resistance gather at the Sandra Day O'Connor U.S. District Courthouse for a press conference about the SCOTUS vacancy and womens' rights.
> 6:43 PM - 8 Jul 2018 _​


<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read.

If Johnny Can't Read, Who's to Blame?



> When a federal court dismissed on June 29 the class-action lawsuit claiming the State of Michigan had deprived Detroit public schoolchildren of “their right to literacy,” the left was all set to react in faux shock. The court’s key finding hardly came as news to most of us, but the headlines in the New York Times sounded as if someone had denied climate change: “Access to Literacy’ Is Not a Constitutional Right, Judge in Detroit Rules.”
> 
> These days, when everything progressives want government to provide free is defined as a “right,” i.e., healthcare, housing, a guaranteed income, American citizenship for illegal aliens, etc., etc., it stands to reason that literacy may as well be thrown in there, too. It’s only obvious, provided you’ve never read the Bill of Rights. Hence this lawsuit, brought by public-interest lawyers (who know better) on behalf of several students of low-performing Detroit schools, claiming that “access to literacy” is a fundamental right under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause.


More:



> In 2004, Detroiters voted to return to an elected school board. But soon, “budget missteps, corruption, financial mismanagement and enrollment losses ushered in” another round of state intervention, this time under a Democrat, Governor Jennifer Granholm. In 2009, when it came to light that "[d]strict officials, including the school board... had problems keeping track of how much money was coming in and what was owed,” Granholm appointed Robert Bobb as emergency financial manager. He immediately figured out that basic administrative tasks were being screwed up, and “1,545 DPS employees had ineligible dependents on the staff, costing the district an estimated $2.6 million.” Looking back later, Bobb said he’d “found Detroit Public Schools to be a magnificent vessel of wholesale theft and graft. Not one area of management escaped the thieves and defrauders.” That included food-service workers, teachers, (and a teacher’s mother!), and even members of his security team who lied about overtime.


----------



## Macfury

I was once excoriated by arguing with a person who claimed that "health was a right." I explained that you could guarantee someone the right to access X amount of healthcare, but that you could not guarantee they would be healthy.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I was once excoriated by arguing with a person who claimed that "health was a right." I explained that you could guarantee someone the right to access X amount of healthcare, but that you could not guarantee they would be healthy.


Lemee guess: Prog.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me his sense of ha-ha. 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

In a troll of deeply epic proportions White House staff just walked all reporters & journalists covering the SCOTUS pick by the dumpster & a portrait of Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Lemee guess: Prog.


Let's see if I recall... YES!!!


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I jes' luvs me his sense of ha-ha.
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> In a troll of deeply epic proportions White House staff just walked all reporters & journalists covering the SCOTUS pick by the dumpster & a portrait of Hillary Clinton.


Here's another funny from that Twitter feed:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Here's another funny from that Twitter feed:


Nice!


----------



## FeXL

Good.

President Trump Pardons Cattle Ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond



> “The Hammonds are multi-generation cattle ranchers in Oregon imprisoned in connection with a fire that leaked onto a small portion of neighboring public grazing land,” White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement issued Tuesday on the full pardon of the Hammonds. “The evidence at trial regarding the Hammonds’ responsibility for the fire was conflicting, and the jury acquitted them on most of the charges.”
> 
> Sanders recounted the series of events that left the 76-year-old and 46-year-old Hammond father and son sentenced to five years each in prison after an “overzealous appeal” under the Obama administration.


----------



## SINC

Swiss file WTO case against Trump tariffs

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true


----------



## FeXL

Bernie Sanders, take note: Venezuela's non-oil exports per capita skid below Haiti's



> Anyone need another round of proof that socialism fails? Yo, Bernie? Alexandria?
> 
> Take a look at this AVEX/Wikipedia chart showing where socialist Venezuela ranks on the exports per capita front:
> 
> ...
> 
> What this really says is "take out oil [oh, and by the way, that's at record lows in production and exports in its own right], and you have just about nothing," an economy weaker and lower than Haiti's. *Strong economies are built on exports.* And if your socialist central planners dictate the building of an economy on the high price of oil at the expense of everything else, not only will you not have an economy worth looking at except as you would a roadside crash, but you won't even have the oil, either.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Purdy sure The Donald doesn't give a fat rodent's backside about anything the UN has to say.

Haley Lambasts U.N.’s ‘Politically Biased and Factually Wrong’ Report on U.S. Poverty



> U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley on Monday refuted the U.N.’s "unnecessary, politically biased, and factually wrong" report on poverty in the United States.
> 
> Writing at National Review, Haley hit back at the report’s conclusions by pointing out America’s charitable efforts, safety net, and growing economy. The report’s alarming claims included the contention that millions of Americans live in "Third World conditions" and that the U.S. "criminalizes" being poor, but Haley said the accusations are motivated by politics rather than facts.
> 
> "*When there are many dozens of countries where poverty consumes most of the population, and where corrupt governments deliberately make the problem much worse, why would the U.N. study poverty in America?*" Haley asked. "The answer is politics."


M'bold.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Purdy sure The Donald doesn't give a fat rodent's backside about anything the UN has to say.
> 
> Haley Lambasts U.N.’s ‘Politically Biased and Factually Wrong’ Report on U.S. Poverty


Admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.

Guess the USA isn't ready to do that yet...


----------



## CubaMark

*Related: *_1-Year-Old Baby Appears In Immigration Court, Cries Hysterically_

A 1-year-old boy in federal custody who appeared in immigration court without his parents in Phoenix briefly played with a ball, drank from a bottle, then “cried hysterically” as he was about to leave the courtroom Friday, according to The Associated Press.

But he was eventually granted a voluntary departure order so the government can fly him to Honduras, where his father has already been sent.

The little boy, identified in court only as Johan, was one of the children who appeared in the Arizona court Friday without parents. One boy held up five fingers when the judge asked him his age.

Judge John Richardson said he was “embarrassed to ask” if Johan understood the proceedings, AP reported. “I don’t know who you would explain it to, unless you think that a 1-year-old could learn immigration law,” he told Johan’s attorney.

Immigration advocates have complained about children going to court, calling it stressful and frightening. People in immigration proceedings, even children, are not guaranteed an attorney, although most unaccompanied minors do appear with representation. There are no physical accommodations for children, many of whom can’t even see over defense tables without booster seats.

“There are no booster seats ... no teddy bears. It’s a cold immigration court, and these kids are sitting in chairs that are too big for them; their feet don’t even touch the floor,” immigration attorney Lindsay Toczylowski told CNN last month.

Johan, who did have an attorney, was reportedly separated from his dad at the U.S. border. AP did not report the reason for their separation or the timing. The Trump administration enacted a zero tolerance immigration policy earlier this year to refer all illegal border crossers for criminal prosecution, which led to thousands of children being split up from their parents. Some parents were deported without their children after signing a waiver. 

Trump countermanded his own separation policy with an executive order he signed June 20. But now his administration is under court order to reunite children with families.​


----------



## FeXL

Which problem would you be speaking of?

1) Illegal immigrants;
2) Young fatherless black males shooting each other with illegal handguns in Democratically controlled inner cities with some of the toughest gun laws in the country;
3) Progs.



CubaMark said:


> Admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.


----------



## eMacMan

Despite the negative press, the Donald does occasionally do the right thing. This is one of those times.

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/arti...gon-cattle-ranchers-in-case-that-13062933.php

Some propaganda errors in the story. The so-called arson charges related to a small back fire the Hammonds set, in an attempt to prevent a BLM burn from killing their cattle and destroying their property.

LaVoy Finnecum and those in his SUV were unarmed at the time of his murder, and there is every reason to believe the FBI were aware of it as their informant had ample opportunity to inform the troopers at the first stop.

The only violence during the entire standoff was perpetrated by Federal agents.


----------



## eMacMan

This meme actually hits the mark.
https://www.seattlepi.com/comics-and-games/fun/Mallard_Fillmore/2018-07-11/

Posting the link rather than attaching as attachments may still be iffy.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> Posting the link rather than attaching as attachments may still be iffy.


Seems to be working fine now, for me at least.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## SINC

This float was in a parade in Germany. Apparently they have summed up the situation.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Obama wasn't fool or a moron--just lazy and uncommitted to the wellbeing of his country.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Obama wasn't fool or a moron--just *lazy* and uncommitted to the wellbeing of his country.


Care to compare Obama's and Trump's golfing regimens?


----------



## eMacMan

Since we must do memes, might as well balance it out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Anyone watch the McCarthy hearings yesterday?


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Since we must do memes, might as well balance it out.
> View attachment 87406


Right.... except Trump's hardline policy is also affecting legitimate refugee claimants - to which the USA (and Canada) has an obligation as signatories to various agreements to properly assess and offer asylum where warranted.

Conveniently omitted by right-wing armchair border agents....


----------



## Macfury

Only interested in working hours. What they do in their spare time is optional.



CubaMark said:


> Care to compare Obama's and Trump's golfing regimens?


----------



## Macfury

Yes, the Democrats keep trying to pillory people for supposed ties to Russian Communists. Astute of you to pick it up!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anyone watch the McCarthy hearings yesterday?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, the Democrats keep trying to pillory people for supposed ties to Russian Communists. Astute of you to pick it up!




As usual you have it exactly backwards. Yesterday was an embarrassment to the Republicans, not the Democrats.


----------



## Macfury

McCarthyism--your term--was about allegations of conspiracy with Russians.



Freddie_Biff said:


> As usual you have it exactly backwards. Yesterday was an embarrassment to the Republicans, not the Democrats.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> McCarthyism--your term--was about allegations of conspiracy with Russians.




Did you even watch the proceedings yesterday? The pundits compared them to the McCarthy hearings in terms of tone and lack of civility.


----------



## Macfury

I guess you didn't know the history of the McCarthy hearings.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did you even watch the proceedings yesterday? The pundits compared them to the McCarthy hearings in terms of tone and lack of civility.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I guess you didn't know the history of the McCarthy hearings.




I guess you’re not aware of the Peter Strzok hearings.


----------



## Macfury

Yes. Strzok, is the guy who is implicated in spying on a presidential campaign.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I guess you’re not aware of the Peter Strzok hearings.


----------



## eMacMan

Pretty good editorial summary on Strzok

https://gazette.com/opinion/editori...cle_d7486ee8-8640-11e8-98fc-e3a5ca4ddeac.html



> TV doesn’t get better than Thursday’s all-day interrogation of disgraced FBI agent Peter Strzok, by 72 members of Congress for more than 10 hours.
> 
> Though fun to watch, the hearing raises a concern. We fear Strzok’s smarmy disrespect for legal process could harm reputations of other law enforcement personnel.
> 
> Americans should rest assured Strzok is an outlier in his agency and field. He is the rare bad cop, but one with national attention many times greater than his colleagues will get in their combined careers.
> 
> The vast majority of law enforcement professionals do not embark upon disruptive, inner-office affairs with co-workers. Few use government email for profanity laced pillow talk, leaving a paper trail of extreme bias against the subject of an investigation.
> ....


My own recent observations of the FBI have me thinking the agency is corrupt from stem to core.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes. Strzok, is the guy who is implicated in spying on a presidential campaign.




Did you watch any of the hearings?


----------



## Macfury

Yes. Strzok disgraced himself and the FBI.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did you watch any of the hearings?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

A contemplation about fascism and its characteristics by Irish writer Fintan O'Toole. I came across it in my Facebook feed.



> Paul Kaufman
> 7 July at 21:21
> Fintan O'Toole wrote this yesterday in The Irish Times:
> 
> “To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.
> 
> It is easy to dismiss Donald Trump as an ignoramus, not least because he is. But he has an acute understanding of one thing: test marketing. He created himself in the gossip pages of the New York tabloids, where celebrity is manufactured by planting outrageous stories that you can later confirm or deny depending on how they go down. And he recreated himself in reality TV where the storylines can be adjusted according to the ratings. Put something out there, pull it back, adjust, go again.
> 
> Fascism doesn’t arise suddenly in an existing democracy. It is not easy to get people to give up their ideas of freedom and civility. You have to do trial runs that, if they are done well, serve two purposes. They get people used to something they may initially recoil from; and they allow you to refine and calibrate. This is what is happening now and we would be fools not to see it.
> One of the basic tools of fascism is the rigging of elections – we’ve seen that trialled in the election of Trump, in the Brexit referendum and (less successfully) in the French presidential elections. Another is the generation of tribal identities, the division of society into mutually exclusive polarities.
> 
> Fascism does not need a majority – it typically comes to power with about forty percent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesn’t matter if most people hate you, as long as your forty percent is fanatically committed. That’s been tested out too.
> 
> And fascism of course needs a propaganda machine so effective that it creates for its followers a universe of “alternative facts” impervious to unwanted realities. Again, the testing for this is very far advanced.
> But when you’ve done all this, there is a crucial next step, usually the trickiest of all. You have to undermine moral boundaries, inure people to the acceptance of acts of extreme cruelty. Like hounds, people have to be blooded. They have to be given the taste for savagery.
> 
> Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group. This allows the members of that group to be dehumanised. Once that has been achieved, you can gradually up the ante, working through the stages from breaking windows to extermination.
> 
> People have to be given the taste for savagery. Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group.
> 
> It is this next step that is being test-marketed now. It is being done in Italy by the far-right leader and minister for the interior Matteo Salvini. How would it go down if we turn away boatloads of refugees? Let’s do a screening of the rough-cut of registering all the Roma and see what buttons the audience will press. And it has been trialled by Trump: let’s see how my fans feel about crying babies in cages. I wonder how it will go down with Rupert Murdoch.
> 
> To see, as most commentary has done, the deliberate traumatisation of migrant children as a “mistake” by Trump is culpable naivety. It is a trial run – and the trial has been a huge success. Trump’s claim last week that immigrants “infest” the US is a test-marketing of whether his fans are ready for the next step-up in language, which is of course “vermin”.
> 
> And the generation of images of toddlers being dragged from their parents is a test of whether those words can be turned into sounds and pictures. It was always an experiment – it ended (but only in part) because the results were in.
> 
> And the results are quite satisfactory. There is good news on two fronts. First, Rupert Murdoch is happy with it – his Fox News mouthpieces outdid themselves in barbaric crassness: making animal noises at the mention of a Down syndrome child, describing crying children as actors. They went the whole swinish hog: even the brown babies are liars. Those sobs of anguish are typical of the manipulative behaviour of the strangers coming to infest us – should we not fear a race whose very infants can be so devious?
> 
> Second, the hardcore fans loved it: Fifty-eight percent of Republicans are in favour of this brutality. Trump’s overall approval ratings are up to 42.5 per cent.
> This is greatly encouraging for the pre-fascist agenda. The blooding process has begun within the democratic world. The muscles that the propaganda machines need for defending the indefensible are being toned up. Millions and millions of Europeans and Americans are learning to think the unthinkable.
> 
> So what if those black people drown in the sea? So what if those brown toddlers are scarred for life? They have already, in their minds, crossed the boundaries of morality. They are, like Macbeth, “yet but young in deed”. But the tests will be refined, the results analysed, the methods perfected, the messages sharpened. And then the deeds can follow."
> 
> Let us protect our freedom with all our democratic power, and continue to be brave with everything we must face.”


----------



## SINC

^

That guy is out of touch with reality.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> ^
> 
> That guy is out of touch with reality.


Why do you say that?


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> ^
> 
> That guy is out of touch with reality.


Utterly. He wrote nothing when Obama proposed a federal government police force equal in strength to the military.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Utterly. He wrote nothing when Obama proposed a federal government police force equal in strength to the military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




I get the feeling you don't actually read any links people provide. Do you agree about the general characteristics of fascism, regardless which government it is, or did you not get that far?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

.


----------



## Macfury

He is not speaking about the "general characteristics" of fascism. Neither are you. When Hillary Clinton referred to Republican voters as a "basket of deplorables" she was invoking "the other" so by that weak definition she was a fascist.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I get the feeling you don't actually read any links people provide. Do you agree about the general characteristics of fascism, regardless which government it is, or did you not get that far?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He is not speaking about the "general characteristics" of fascism. Neither are you. When Hillary Clinton referred to Republican voters as a "basket of deplorables" she was invoking "the other" so by that weak definition she was a fascist.



You have very strange interpretations of things that ought to be pretty simple. It’s an excellent description of how fascism develops, small bits at a time. Trump and his followers fit the description of the development of fascism to a T. You just don’t see it. I’d call it willful blindness, unless you’re really that unaware.


----------



## Macfury

Fasicsm is not a simple concept and the writer of the article is not describing fascism. All movements start a little bit at a time. That's why it's so easy to search for tiny pieces of unrelated material and claim they are evidence of something else happening "a bit at a time." The Fascist regimes of Germany and Italy were strikingly different. You can cherry pick details of either country's fascist movements and apply fractions of them to any other political party or movement--BOO, a Fascist! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You have very strange interpretations of things that ought to be pretty simple. It’s an excellent description of how fascism develops, small bits at a time. Trump and his followers fit the description of the development of fascism to a T. You just don’t see it. I’d call it willful blindness, unless you’re really that unaware.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Fasicsm is not a simple concept and the writer of the article is not describing fascism. All movements start a little bit at a time. That's why it's so easy to search for tiny pieces of unrelated material and claim they are evidence of something else happening "a bit at a time." The Fascist regimes of Germany and Italy were strikingly different. You can cherry pick details of either country's fascist movements and apply fractions of them to any other political party or movement--BOO, a Fascist!



Well, his argument is far more persuasive than yours so far.


----------



## Macfury

His is not an argument. It's just a bunch of statements stitched together without historical or philosophical context.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well, his argument is far more persuasive than yours so far.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> His is not an argument. It's just a bunch of statements stitched together without historical or philosophical context.




You are so wrong, yet you live in this bubble when you honestly believe you are right. It’s baffling.


----------



## Beej

Democratic Socialism Vs Social Democracy
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07xFULkgBoI[/ame]


The Democrats are in for a painful learning process about who is in their tent.

Mostly a good analysis of the language and ideology problem, but makes mistakes when talking about what Americans want.


----------



## Macfury

Which Fascists have rigged the U.S. election? If they were rigging it, how could Roy Moore have lost the Alabama election?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are so wrong, yet you live in this bubble when you honestly believe you are right. It’s baffling.


----------



## CubaMark

_Some folks in Germany aren't very pleased with Trump following his comments about Germany being "controlled" by Russia. German TV show @heuteshow replaced Trump with the baby blimp..._


----------



## CubaMark

Also just lovely how he left a 92-year-old woman waiting in the heat, and then bumbled his way through a review of the troops... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

He's no spit-and-polish, but he is a great president. Obama on the other hand gave the Queen an "American gift" of some crappy DVDs and copies of his book as I recall.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> He's no spit-and-polish,


Oh, joy! Another entry for the conservative lexicon. "spit-and-polish" = "common decency"


----------



## Macfury

A Castro supporter demanding common decency!



CubaMark said:


> Oh, joy! Another entry for the conservative lexicon. "spit-and-polish" = "common decency"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> He's no spit-and-polish, but he is a great president. Obama on the other hand gave the Queen an "American gift" of some crappy DVDs and copies of his book as I recall.




A great president? He’s the worst president the US has ever had! You really need some actual news sources beyond Breitbart and Fox.


----------



## Macfury

His policy decisions are exactly what thew US has needed for some time. The Obama decline is being reversed at last!



Freddie_Biff said:


> A great president? He’s the worst president the US has ever had! You really need some actual news sources beyond Breitbart and Fox.


----------



## CubaMark

It will be interesting, in the months to come, to compare Tisdale's expectations in the article below with reality....

*Trump and Putin’s unholy alliance could lead to war with Iran*

They were right to be worried. Within hours of arriving in Europe, Donald Trump was busy insulting America’s closest friends and threatening to dismember Nato. He publicly humiliated Theresa May and did his importunate best to force regime change in Westminster, before halfheartedly apologising. Now he takes his ugly brand of rogue-male politics to Helsinki for a meeting with his best buddy, prominent campaign supporter and fellow narcissist, Russia’s Vladimir Putin. This is an ominous, possibly watershed moment for Europe, full of fear and loathing.

All of which invites the question: how far will Trump be allowed to go before leaders of the western democracies finally draw the line? How long until they recognise him as an antagonist, not an ally, contemptuous of their countries’ values and interests – and act accordingly? Germany’s Angela Merkel tried firmness. May tried flattery. The EU has tried fulmination and retaliatory trade tariffs. Others, wishfully, dismiss Trumpism as an aberration, not a strategic shift. But nothing stops him as he rampages on, malignly flattening all in his path.
(The Guardian)​


----------



## Rps

Actually, he is the worst President and time will bare this out. He has done NOTHING. Tax cuts don’t count since no Republican can refuse those.
With the majority in both houses he is as ineffectual as ........ dare I say it.......Obama.

In recent years the most effective President has been “W” ..... he had their equivalent of a minority government and he got most of his agenda passed. I didn’t like his policies but he got stuff done. Trump..... not so much. He is tactics without strategy.


----------



## Macfury

Of course Trump is contemptuous of European values--they've been freeloaders for decades. And such a terrible thing to hold a summit with another world leader. I love the term "regime change" which is normally reserved for changing a government through military force. It was OK for Obama to send his team to Israel to try to defeat Netanyahu in an election campaign by helping his enemies, Suggesting Boris would make a good PM is "regime change"? Hysterical stuff!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Of course Trump is contemptuous of European values--they've been freeloaders for decades. And such a terrible thing to hold a summit with another world leader. I love the term "regime change" which is normally reserved for changing a government through military force. It was OK for Obama to send his team to Israel to try to defeat Netanyahu in an election campaign by helping his enemies, Suggesting Boris would make a good PM is "regime change"? Hysterical stuff!



You addressed nothing that Rps just said. It’s like...it’s like...you just ignore things you don’t want to hear.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You addressed nothing that Rps just said. It’s like...it’s like...you just ignore things you don’t want to hear.


rps posted while I was sending.


----------



## Macfury

What would you consider the agenda items that Trump hasn't passed or begun to address?




Rps said:


> Actually, he is the worst President and time will bare this out. He has done NOTHING. Tax cuts don’t count since no Republican can refuse those.
> With the majority in both houses he is as ineffectual as ........ dare I say it.......Obama.
> 
> In recent years the most effective President has been “W” ..... he had their equivalent of a minority government and he got most of his agenda passed. I didn’t like his policies but he got stuff done. Trump..... not so much. He is tactics without strategy.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> What would you consider the agenda items that Trump hasn't passed or begun to address?


We can nit pick but let’s just do the big ones.......where is the wall and we still have NAFTA.


----------



## Beej

This #walkaway thing in the U.S. is interesting.

Examples like this are popping up:
https://2fingersberben.com/2018/07/07/my-walkaway-story/

At the same time, a lot on the left firmly believe it's a Russian scam. Example:
https://www.salon.com/2018/07/09/ru...k-on-democrats-is-a-likely-kremlin-operation/


> Are real-life Democrats leaving the party in disgust? No, but Russian-fueled online trolls want you to think so


They can't seem to process reality. Russian bots can be involved in something while that thing also has real popularity. 

Maybe the next step will just be to shout down any dissent with, "This is blasphemy! This is madness!"


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> We can nit pick but let’s just do the big ones.......where is the wall and we still have NAFTA.


The border wall is under construction, although Congress is underfunding it.

Photos show 'bollard wall' construction begins on US-Mexico border - Business Insider

NAFTA is under negotiation. It can't happen all at once.


----------



## Macfury

It's wild when propaganda intersects with reality. 



Beej said:


> This #walkaway thing in the U.S. is interesting.
> 
> Examples like this are popping up:
> https://2fingersberben.com/2018/07/07/my-walkaway-story/
> 
> At the same time, a lot on the left firmly believe it's a Russian scam. Example:
> https://www.salon.com/2018/07/09/ru...k-on-democrats-is-a-likely-kremlin-operation/
> 
> 
> They can't seem to process reality. Russian bots can be involved in something while that thing also has real popularity.
> 
> Maybe the next step will just be to shout down any dissent with, "This is blasphemy! This is madness!"


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The border wall is under construction, although Congress is underfunding it.
> 
> Photos show 'bollard wall' construction begins on US-Mexico border - Business Insider


Isn't this the same wall posted a few months ago that Trump claimed was the new wall going up, but in fact is just the mock-up? Where are the windows? The solar panels? The impervious-but-transparent design he promised was going to be installed? (you know, the one that let you see the drug dealers as they tossed the bags of cocaine over the wall, so nobody would risk getting bonked in the head. No - not making this **** up. :lmao: )

The article to which you linked notes that Trump wanted $25-billion to pay for the wall (what happened to the Mexicans, Donnie?) but Congress only authorized $1.6-billion, for the exact same kind of fence that currently exists.

And let's not forget... Trump's Republicans control the White House, the House, and the Senate.... and still can't get the wall built.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I didn't know the Queen was a golfer!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## eMacMan

I see were back to the bloated images. As Pete Seeger once opined: "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learned."


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> I see were back to the bloated images. As Pete Seeger once opined: "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learned."


I'm really not trying to be a pest - I just don't want to have to jump through a bunch of hoops to do something that is only a problem for a couple of people, rather than those folks fixing whatever's wrong with their system.

Here's how the image above appears on my screen:










*Note *the yellow bar at the top of the screen, which toggles resize on/off.

Is this not an ehMac feature, or did I install something years ago that does this for me and nobody else?


----------



## CubaMark

*Update:* It's an option inside your UserCP here at ehMac, under "Thread Options":


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I see were back to the bloated images. As Pete Seeger once opined: "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learned."



Why don’t you stop whining and get used to it? They look fine on both my computer and my phone. One really wonders what on earth you’re complaining about.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> *Update:* It's an option inside your UserCP here at ehMac, under "Thread Options":


Hint: You must first go "EDIT OPTIONS" and THEN to Thread Options to find this setting.


----------



## Macfury

Maybe you CAN make this SH** up. I looked for that quote outside of a meme but couldn't find it. Could you find me the source of the quote for context?



CubaMark said:


> You can't make this SH** up...


----------



## Macfury

Next he'll complain that the memes are full of misquotes and not very funny. You can't please anyone these days.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why don’t you stop whining and get used to it? They look fine on both my computer and my phone. One really wonders what on earth you’re complaining about.


----------



## eMacMan

If I could get it to properly resize I would not be complaining. It does work with attachments, less predictably with hotlinks

Not properly sizing images is like eMailing 20MP images without knowing whether the recipient has a high speed connection. It's flat out rude.


----------



## Macfury

Don't bother Mr. Spock with your petty concerns. He has a progressive agenda that needs attending to.



eMacMan said:


> If I could get it to properly resize I would not be complaining. It does work with attachments, less predictably with hotlinks
> 
> Not properly sizing images is like eMailing 20MP images without knowing whether the recipient has a high speed connection. It's flat out rude.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> If I could get it to properly resize I would not be complaining. It does work with attachments, less predictably with hotlinks
> 
> Not properly sizing images is like eMailing 20MP images without knowing whether the recipient has a high speed connection. It's flat out rude.




It is not. Asking for a 100 pixel image is rude. Small images are considered to be about 500 pixels wide and 500 pixels tall. Get with the 21st century, man.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> It is not. Asking for a 100 pixel image is rude. Small images are considered to be about 500 pixels wide and 500 pixels tall. Get with the 21st century, man.


Nobody is asking for 100 pixel image width. If he just kept it under the standard 770 that would be great. 

2000+ pixel width is overkill.

Should be noted that over 90% of those on this site are logged in as guests and are very unlikely to discover hidden viewing options on this site. Moreover different browser/OS combos can react differently, especially with hot links.

Anyways CM must realize nobody is going to scroll left and right for each line on his memes. So he therefore obviously considers them too unimportant to be worth resizing. Unfortunately it also stretches other comments that may or may not be worth reading.


----------



## Macfury

I've heard that guys who post large memes are compensating for shortages in other areas.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Nobody is asking for 100 pixel image width. If he just kept it under the standard 770 that would be great.
> 
> 2000+ pixel width is overkill.
> 
> Should be noted that over 90% of those on this site are logged in as guests and are very unlikely to discover hidden viewing options on this site. Moreover different browser/OS combos can react differently, especially with hot links.
> 
> Anyways CM must realize nobody is going to scroll left and right for each line on his memes. So he therefore obviously considers them too unimportant to be worth resizing. Unfortunately it also stretches other comments that may or may not be worth reading.



I’ve never had any difficulty seeing CM’s images on my computer or using Tapatalk on my phone. Or my own images, for that matter. The image automatically resizes to fit my screen. It’s just always done that. As far as people using ehMac, I think we’re lucky if there’s ten at any given time, including myself. It’s not like there’s a huge audience out there any more.


----------



## Macfury

Hey, web-spiders deserve some courtesy!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’ve never had any difficulty seeing CM’s images on my computer or using Tapatalk on my phone. Or my own images, for that matter. The image automatically resizes to fit my screen. It’s just always done that. As far as people using ehMac, I think we’re lucky if there’s ten at any given time, including myself. It’s not like there’s a huge audience out there any more.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I’ve never had any difficulty seeing CM’s images on my computer or using Tapatalk on my phone. Or my own images, for that matter. The image automatically resizes to fit my screen. It’s just always done that. As far as people using ehMac, I think we’re lucky if there’s ten at any given time, including myself. It’s not like there’s a huge audience out there any more.


It is not just your computer and browsers. Works fine in Firefox/Snow Leopard. Does not work in later version of Firefox/ElCap identical settings to the version that does.

As I said, you know it's not 100%. If you think your memes are important enough that others should read them, it's up to you to size them correctly. Otherwise feel confident they will serve no valid purpose.


----------



## smashedbanana

Meanwhile on ehmac the intense American Political discussion has turned to to the divisive issue of pixel width.


----------



## Macfury

How wide is your pixel, smashedbanana?



smashedbanana said:


> Meanwhile on ehmac the intense American Political discussion has turned to to the divisive issue of pixel width.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Maybe you CAN make this SH** up. I looked for that quote outside of a meme but couldn't find it. Could you find me the source of the quote for context?


A quick search comes up with this from the Sun (via the Chicago Tribune):



> Trump, in an interview with the British newspaper The Sun, blamed immigration for a changing culture in Europe: "I think allowing millions and millions of people to come into Europe is very, very sad. I think you are losing your culture. Look around. You go through certain areas that didn't exist ten or 15 years ago."


The meme-maker shouldn't have used direct quotes if Trump didn't say them exactly that way - however, Trump's message remains the same.


----------



## Macfury

I think that being overwhelmed by large numbers of immigrants can change a culture so significantly that the original culture becomes lost or unrecognizable. This was policy in some of the Soviet Republics--forcing large populations to relocate to other areas to decrease local cultural identity. 

Are you saying that you disagree that this is possible?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> How wide is your pixel, smashedbanana?


What's smaller than a pixel? I only ask for a friend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> It is not just your computer and browsers. Works fine in Firefox/Snow Leopard. Does not work in later version of Firefox/ElCap identical settings to the version that does.
> 
> As I said, you know it's not 100%. If you think your memes are important enough that others should read them, it's up to you to size them correctly. Otherwise feel confident they will serve no valid purpose.



I’ve only heard complaints from a couple people here on ehMac, none from the other forums I frequent. It seems to me it is your responsibility to set your specs properly if you want to see images at the right resolution. When given the choice, as I sometimes am, I set the image resolution for small as opposed to med or large. That’s what I’ve been doing since you first raised the issue a couple years ago. Beyond that, I’m afraid you’re on your own. If it worked under Firefox/Snow Leopard, then it is clearly not a problem on my end. Have you tried using Safari?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Meanwhile on ehmac the intense American Political discussion has turned to to the divisive issue of pixel width.




Bwahahahahahahaha!! 

Did you hear how Trump asked Putin nicely if he had interfered and he said no. So that settles that.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I’ve only heard complaints from a couple people here on ehMac, none from the other forums I frequent. It seems to me it is your responsibility to set your specs properly if you want to see images at the right resolution. When given the choice, as I sometimes am, I set the image resolution for small as opposed to med or large. That’s what I’ve been doing since you first raised the issue a couple years ago. Beyond that, I’m afraid you’re on your own. If it worked under Firefox/Snow Leopard, then it is clearly not a problem on my end. Have you tried using Safari?


Why in God's name should I switch browsers, because your too lazy to trim the fat from your memes. As I said more than 90% of ehMac users do not log in, and therefore are very unlikely to let you know when your memes blow out the right side of their browser window.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Why in God's name should I switch browsers, because your too lazy to trim the fat from your memes. As I said more than 90% of ehMac users do not log in, and therefore are very unlikely to let you know when your memes blow out the right side of their browser window.


Listen to your tone. I'll take that as a no, you haven't tried using Safari. That's a shame, because Safari appears to automatically resize images to fit your browser window—the very thing you keep complaining about. Why should I jump through hoops to resize things for you when you're too lazy to fix the settings yourself? Plus, you're not even all that pleasant to talk to. You certainly offer me no incentive.

This is the before and after when you ask Safari to resize the image to its original dimensions. Rather unwieldy, so why someone wouldn't want that automatically resize option is beyond me.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, better to trust the intelligence community that swore there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did you hear how Trump asked Putin nicely if he had interfered and he said no. So that settles that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, better to trust the intelligence community that swore there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


Macfury makes a good point! Score one.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Why in God's name should I switch browsers, because your too lazy to trim the fat from your memes. As I said more than 90% of ehMac users do not log in, and therefore are very unlikely to let you know when your memes blow out the right side of their browser window.


Ya seriously!

I'll stop using Netscape when I'm good and ready or I die waiting for a page to load!

Get off my porch!


----------



## Macfury

The other day I booted an older computer that still had Netscape on it. Fired up Netscape and it still worked pretty well as a browser. Of course it featured news about President Bush on the splash page...



smashedbanana said:


> YI'll stop using Netscape when I'm good and ready or I die waiting for a page to load!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Listen to your tone. I'll take that as a no, you haven't tried using Safari. That's a shame, because Safari appears to automatically resize images to fit your browser window—the very thing you keep complaining about. Why should I jump through hoops to resize things for you when you're too lazy to fix the settings yourself? Plus, you're not even all that pleasant to talk to. You certainly offer me no incentive.
> 
> This is the before and after when you ask Safari to resize the image to its original dimensions. Rather unwieldy, so why someone wouldn't want that automatically resize option is beyond me.


Did not get too far. I have Safari set-up with no ad blocking. I use it for those blue-moon sites, where ad blocker access is denied and for whatever reason I think need to read an article. Works much better than switching blockers on and off.

Anyways with ehMac the ads pretty much make the site unusable. I did not get past the Amazon popover.

So no I won't switch browsers to view your out bloated memes.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> So no I won't switch browsers to view your out bloated memes.


If you want to PM your address I will print and mail them to you.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> If you want to PM your address I will print and mail them to you.


:lmao: Pretty sure I can live without them, basing that entirely on past experience.

If he feels they are that important, he'll make the effort to keep them in line.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> :lmao: Pretty sure I can live without them, basing that entirely on past experience.
> 
> If he feels they are that important, he'll make the effort to keep them in line.




You only seem to complain about them anyway.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> “He declined to say whether he believed the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia interfered over Putin’s denials. And he blamed the poor state of relations between the two superpowers on foolishness by both countries.
> 
> As for the accusation of Russian election meddling, Trump said: “I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. He just said it’s not Russia. I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.”


...and with today’s “correction” added...



> “The sentence should have been, ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia.’ Sort of a double negative,” Trump said.
> 
> But even as Trump said he accepted U.S. intelligence agencies’ conclusions that Russia was behind the election hacking, he added, as he has before: “It could be other people also. A lot of people out there.”
> 
> So the world was left to wonder: Was he really tripped up by a double-negative or was that clarification really a cleanup operation?”


...So really, it could still be that 400 lb guy on his couch with his laptop. So many people to blame, so little time. 

 https://edmontonjournal.com/pmn/ne...ting/wcm/20928215-54a2-478d-b491-4f139e2918aa


----------



## Macfury

The Obama White House originally blamed Ukrainians for hacking Podesta's e-mail account. This is all pissant stuff in light of America's egregious "hacking" of the elections of other countries.


----------



## CubaMark

_The dementia indications are ever-increasing...._

*Donald Trump keeps saying his father Fred Trump was born in Germany. He was not.*

In an interview with CBS News' Jeff Glor on Sunday, President Donald Trump was asked which nations he considered to be foes of the United States.


Trump's first answer was the European Union. That response became a big deal, as it should, given that it's bat**** crazy.

But there was something else in Trump's reply that has flown under the radar.

"Maybe the thing that is most difficult -- don't forget both my parents were born in EU sectors okay? I mean my mother was Scotland, my father was Germany. And -- you know I love those countries."

Trump's mother, Mary Anne MacLeod Trump was indeed born in Scotland in 1912. But Frederick Trump Sr. was born in the Bronx in 1905. And this isn't the first time Trump has made such a claim. On July 1st in an interview with Fox News' Maria Bartiromo, he said: "My parents were born in the European Union."

What the hell is happening here? Why is Trump claiming his father was born in Germany?

Shouldn't a man who spent years questioning the birthplace of Barack Obama know where his own damn father was born?
(BoingBoing)​


----------



## Macfury

Grandfather.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Grandfather.



Trump doesn’t know the difference between his father and his grandfather?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump doesn’t know the difference between his father and his grandfather?


I think so. The father appears to have been conceived in Germany, so close but no cigar.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I suspect Trump reluctantly walked back that statement, which I consider a big mistake. Election meddling has been a US pastime for a century.


----------



## Macfury

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Go tell Vlad!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Oh Mark! Stop inventing memes! And making them too wide for people using Firefox! LOL


----------



## Macfury

What Trump said was all fine in the first place! CM, that meme reminds me of you defending Elon Musk!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Oh Mark! Stop inventing memes! And making them too wide for people using Firefox! LOL


He actually got one correctly sized for a pleasant change. Cautious kudos as it may have been accidental.

Yes it is very sad to see the Donald get something right, only to have the MIC aka the Swamp Monsters trump his efforts and bully him into backtracking.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Until this election, the Dems and Progressives were in love with Russia--hilarious to watch this fake outrage!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I love the look on Trump’s face with Putin’s hand up his nether regions. Kind of like this one.


----------



## Macfury

You progs are _so_ into homosexual pageantry!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You progs are _so_ into homosexual pageantry!



Why are you so bothered by homosexuality?


----------



## Macfury

I'm just noting your affection for homosexual imagery--and your loving descriptions of same. I have nothing else to say about it!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why are you so bothered by homosexuality?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm just noting your affection for homosexual imagery--and your loving descriptions of same. I have nothing else to say about it!



You’re bothered by the bromance between two world leaders?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Until this election, the Dems and Progressives were in love with Russia--hilarious to watch this fake outrage!


Say what?

Explain please.

Sanctions are not love letters.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I'm just noting your affection for homosexual imagery--and your loving descriptions of same. I have nothing else to say about it!


Exactly.


----------



## Macfury

When Obama thought Hillary was going to win the election, he told the intelligence agencies to "stand down" on Russian "election meddling." It was Obama caught on live mike who told a negotiator to "Tell Vlad, I'll have more flexibility after the election." Russians crossed Obama's "red line in the sand" on Syria with impunity. Obama's most significant response to the Russians was kicking some diplomats out of the country and sanctioning not Russia, but some individuals, organizations and companies within Russia. As Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton said in 2010: "We want very much to have a strong Russia because a strong, competent, prosperous, stable Russia is, we think, in the interests of the world.” 

Admittedly this was less effusive than the left's love for Gorbachev, or Ted Kennedy's then-secret appeal to the KGB, Brezhnev and Andropov to help him defeat Regan in the next election.




smashedbanana said:


> Say what?
> 
> Explain please.
> 
> Sanctions are not love letters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Rps

Just a quick note. There have been 43 named recessions in the history of the U.S. What is interesting is that virtually all have been seeded by Republican administrations. So, get ready for 44 caused by 45.


----------



## Macfury

RPS, that's nonsense. First of all, there was no Republican party to speak of prior to Lincoln. Post-Lincoln, the recessions are shared about 50/50 between parties,



Rps said:


> Just a quick note. There have been 43 named recessions in the history of the U.S. What is interesting is that virtually all have been seeded by Republican administrations. So, get ready for 44 caused by 45.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> RPS, that's nonsense. First of all, there was no Republican party to speak of prior to Lincoln. Post-Lincoln, the recessions are shared about 50/50 between parties,


first, I did say virtually all, second, I still stand by my opinion and third, 44 will be due to 45.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> RPS, that's nonsense. First of all, there was no Republican party to speak of prior to Lincoln. Post-Lincoln, the recessions are shared about 50/50 between parties,




And according to Macfury, there’s no President 45 either.


----------



## Macfury

"Virtually all" and "half" are distinctly different measurements.



Rps said:


> first, I did say virtually all, second, I still stand by my opinion and third, 44 will be due to 45.


----------



## Macfury

Hillary Clinton does not look well at this recent appearance in Australia. I think she may have medical problems she never acknowledged during the election.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> first, I did say virtually all, second, I still stand by my opinion and third, 44 will be due to 45.


Would you agree to go through the list of recessions with me to see if your assertion bears out?


----------



## eMacMan

She looks like she has been taking Prednisone.


----------



## Rps

I have to agree she does not look well.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Would you agree to go through the list of recessions with me to see if your assertion bears out?


From Teddy on there is no debate. Prior to Teddy we can argue if Whigs and Democrat- Republican were what we would truly call Republican today. Notwithstanding, if Trump has his way 44 will be caused by 45.

As I have often stated here Trump is tactical but not strategic.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hillary Clinton does not look well at this recent appearance in Australia. I think she may have medical problems she never acknowledged during the election.




As opposed to the dementia evidenced by Trump since the election that he’s never acknowledged, not to mention the incessant narcissism.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Hillary Clinton does not look well at this recent appearance in Australia. I think she may have medical problems she never acknowledged during the election.


She's 70!

I know the new 70 is to look like an irradiated angry toupee model, but come lets be realistic. She looks her age.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> She's 70!
> 
> I know the new 70 is to look like an irradiated angry toupee model, but come lets be realistic. She looks her age.


I'm not about to call a senior out for looking old. She looks very weak and sick.


----------



## Macfury

Why create an arbitrary start or stop point that tips the scales one way or the other?



Rps said:


> From Teddy on there is no debate. Prior to Teddy we can argue if Whigs and Democrat- Republican were what we would truly call Republican today. Notwithstanding, if Trump has his way 44 will be caused by 45.
> 
> As I have often stated here Trump is tactical but not strategic.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> She's 70!
> 
> I know the new 70 is to look like an irradiated angry toupee model, but come lets be realistic. She looks her age.


I know a number of women in that age bracket. One of them was actually in the same high school Goldwater Girls group.

All of them are better maintained than Hillary and between them can only muster a tiny fraction of the monetary resources available to Hillary.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I know a number of women in that age bracket. One of them was actually in the same high school Goldwater Girls group.
> 
> All of them are better maintained than Hillary and between them can only muster a tiny fraction of the monetary resources available to Hillary.



Your point being? Some people are blessed with good genetics. Hillary, apparently, not so much.


----------



## FeXL

Plus all that WINNING!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> As opposed to the dementia evidenced by Trump since the election that he’s never acknowledged, not to mention the incessant narcissism.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Plus all that WINNING!!!


Still amazes me how much winning is happening. I wake up every day grateful that Hillary lost so decisively and is now reduced to concentrating her efforts on international grifting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Plus all that WINNING!!!




What exactly has America won under Trump, apart from the disrespect of the international community?


----------



## Macfury

News for globalists, Freddie--the "International Community" is not a group whose respect is worth earning. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> What exactly has America won under Trump, apart from the disrespect of the international community?


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I'd explain it to you but you wouldn't understand it anyways.

Remember?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What exactly has America won under Trump...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> News for globalists, Freddie--the "International Community" is not a group whose respect is worth earning.



Says you. Donald Trump is a joke in the eyes of the world and increasingly at home as well. He has definitely NOT made America great again.


----------



## FeXL

By definition, the ignorant "never know, you know"...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Donald Trump is a joke in the eyes of the world and increasingly at home as well.


----------



## Macfury

Q2 GDP growth looks set for 5.3%. Lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates of all time. U.S. trade deficit dropping. 

In your eyes, what would make America great? Open borders? Open wallets? A retread of Obama's famous apology tour? Drawing lines in the sand and then doing nothing?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Says you. Donald Trump is a joke in the eyes of the world and increasingly at home as well. He has definitely NOT made America great again.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> In your eyes, what would make America great?


More pallets of greenbacks to the Iranians. Another Benghazi. Uranium 2.


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Q2 GDP growth looks set for 5.3%. Lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates of all time. U.S. trade deficit dropping.
> 
> In your eyes, what would make America great? Open borders? Open wallets? A retread of Obama's famous apology tour? Drawing lines in the sand and then doing nothing?


First the U.S. economic grow has not been limited to only Trump’s tenure but has been on a grow curve for a number of years. Second America has always been “great”, compare its growth, place in the world, generosity of its people, and its moral intent. The trouble is what the British used to call “the price of Empire”. Everyone expects them to have a magic solution to the worlds problems. The U.S. is not the worlds police force.....but sometimes assumes that role.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> First the U.S. economic grow has not been limited to only Trump’s tenure but has been on a grow curve for a number of years.


I would describe it as "stagnant"--never cresting 3%. Obama's was the slowest recession recovery in history.



Rps said:


> Second America has always been “great”, compare its growth, place in the world, generosity of its people, and its moral intent. The trouble is what the British used to call “the price of Empire”. Everyone expects them to have a magic solution to the worlds problems. The U.S. is not the worlds police force.....but sometimes assumes that role.


Trump is much less willing to assume that role.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> The U.S. is not the worlds police force.....but sometimes assumes that role.


Sometimes they're put in that position by others, too.


----------



## Rps

I think not being the world’s police force is the right choice.....didn’t Bernie S state that as well.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Q2 GDP growth looks set for 5.3%. Lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates of all time. U.S. trade deficit dropping.
> 
> 
> 
> In your eyes, what would make America great? Open borders? Open wallets? A retread of Obama's famous apology tour? Drawing lines in the sand and then doing nothing?




Impeaching Donald Trump for treason.


----------



## Macfury

Thanks for another thoughtful, content free post. You're batting a thousand me boy-o!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Impeaching Donald Trump for treason.


----------



## FeXL

How has he been treasonous?

Be precise.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Impeaching Donald Trump for treason.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> How has he been treasonous?
> 
> 
> 
> Be precise.




FeXL, I’d explain t to you but you wouldn’t understand it anyway.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Impeaching Donald Trump for treason.


But you have no problem with Hiliaries Uranium 1 shenanigans? Seems to me that is far more treasonous than talking to the leader of one of the world's great powers. 

Must be that big contribution to the Clinton Foundation buys a lot of forgiveness.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> But you have no problem with Hiliaries Uranium 1 shenanigans? Seems to me that is far more treasonous than talking to the leader of one of the world's great powers.
> 
> Must be that big contribution to the Clinton Foundation buys a lot of forgiveness.




In case you hadn’t noticed, Hillary is not the President of the United States. There is no need to impeach her. Donald meanwhile...


----------



## FeXL

Purdy sure I can explain any issue in contemporary US politics _marginally_ better than you.

Which is why I enquire as to your reasoning for Trump's impeachment. 'Cause they ain't one.



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, I’d explain t to you but you wouldn’t understand it anyway.


----------



## FeXL

YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!

S'matter of fact, I _had_ noticed... 

BTW, the Word of the Day is, "nacho".

Usage: Bill's Wife is nacho president...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> In case you hadn’t noticed, Hillary is not the President of the United States.


----------



## FeXL

Can you believe this? Some idiot is still banging this Jug Ears' Kenya thing...

"First Sitting President To Come From Kenya"



> When presidential candidate Donald Trump called out President Barack Obama for being born in Kenya, he was labeled a conspiracy theorist and a "birther" by CNN and the mainstream media. But as the years go by, more and more evidence has emerged that seems to support Trump's claim that President Obama was indeed born in Kenya.


:yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Further on this WalkAway thing.

The #WalkAway Movement Is Taking America By Storm



> At now over 100,000 members in its Facebook group and widespread international media coverage, the #WalkAway movement of former Democrats telling their stories about why they left their party has resonated deeply with a core feeling currently in the American people.
> 
> Started by NYC hairstylist Brandon Straka in late May the movement has caught flame because it speaks to how the Democratic Party of today, where far-left sentiments ranging from universal socialist programs to demonizing our first responders and border control, to questioning the very goodness of America itself, are edging closer to gaining a seat at the table.


Actions—>Consequences.


----------



## Macfury

Certainly you understand what constitutes treason in the U.S. system and the high bar to convicting and removing someone from office on that charge.

Why not just list the top three reasons why Trump should be charged with treason?



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, I’d explain t to you but you wouldn’t understand it anyway.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> S'matter of fact, I _had_ noticed...
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the Word of the Day is, "nacho".
> 
> 
> 
> Usage: Bill's Wife is nacho president...
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:




eMacMan brought up Hillary in reference to impeachment. Since she’s not president, her impeachment would be irrelevant. Do try to keep up when you’re responding to comments that weren’t directed to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Certainly you understand what constitutes treason in the U.S. system and the high bar to convicting and removing someone from office on that charge.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just list the top three reasons why Trump should be charged with treason?



He sided with Putin over his own US intelligence sources right on TV for A
all to see. He tried to walk it back a day later by saying he didn’t know why “it wouldn’t be Russia” as opposed to “would be Russia,” but that doesn’t change the rest of the message. He was colluding with a known adversary quite openly and brazenly against his own country. That all by itself constitutes treason.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Can you believe this? Some idiot is still banging this Jug Ears' Kenya thing...
> 
> 
> 
> "First Sitting President To Come From Kenya"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :yikes:




Good Lord. Just when maybe I thought there might be a chance for you, FeXL, you come up with more bull****e conspiracy theories.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> He sided with Putin over his own US intelligence sources right on TV for A
> all to see. He tried to walk it back a day later by saying he didn’t know why “it wouldn’t be Russia” as opposed to “would be Russia,” but that doesn’t change the rest of the message. He was colluding with a known adversary quite openly and brazenly against his own country. That all by itself constitutes treason.


I hate to break it to you but that is not treason, nor has there been any evidence for treason. When Trump does go down ( and I’m betting he will ) it won’t be due to the the reasons you think. You’ve got to dig a little deeper here ..... check a certain persons history....you’ll twig to what will get him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I hate to break it to you but that is not treason, nor has there been any evidence for treason. When Trump does go down ( and I’m betting he will ) it won’t be due to the the reasons you think. You’ve got to dig a little deeper here ..... check a certain persons history....you’ll twig to what will get him.



They sure bandy the word about in many of the discussions I’ve seen. I agree it’s not that (let’s call it the Helsinki Blunder) that will take him down. I’m hoping for the poem star connection myself—and Michael Avenatti is a damn good lawyer.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I can reply in whatever fashion to whatever post on these boards that I want.

To quote an infamous Prog here, "You ain't the boss of me".



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do try to keep up when you’re responding to comments that weren’t directed to you.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. And?

Have you been paying attention to the FIB's hand in his own surveillance? I would't trust them, either.



Freddie_Biff said:


> He sided with Putin over his own US intelligence sources right on TV...


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> They sure bandy the word about in many of the discussions I’ve seen. I agree it’s not that (let’s call it the Helsinki Blunder) that will take him down. I’m hoping for the poem star connection myself—and Michael Avenatti is a damn good lawyer.


The Stormy Affair isn’t it either. As for campaign payments...you would be hard pressed to think both houses would dump the Trump over covering up getting a little honey on his stinger...go ask Bill. As for the “Pee Pee” tape, non starter...... you are thinking too shallow here .... but you can bet it is on tape somewhere.


----------



## FeXL

'Course "they" do.

Curious thing is, "they" are dumber'n sack o' hammers. It's a Prog/RINO/GOPe wet dream, not reality.

Pro Tip: Go elsewhere for your news, Freddie.



Freddie_Biff said:


> They sure bandy the word about in many of the discussions I’ve seen.


----------



## FeXL

I came up with nothing.

Did you even read the article?

Barry said it himself, FFS!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good Lord. Just when maybe I thought there might be a chance for you, FeXL, you come up with more bull****e conspiracy theories.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Michael Avenatti is a damn good lawyer.


?????


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> The Stormy Affair isn’t it either. As for campaign payments...you would be hard pressed to think both houses would dump the Trump over covering up getting a little honey on his stinger...go ask Bill. As for the “Pee Pee” tape, non starter...... you are thinking too shallow here .... but you can bet it is on tape somewhere.



You think it has something to do with Cohen?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> 'Course "they" do.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious thing is, "they" are dumber'n sack o' hammers. It's a Prog/RINO/GOPe wet dream, not reality.
> 
> 
> 
> Pro Tip: Go elsewhere for your news, Freddie.



Hmm. Like Breitbart and Fox?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

I don't care. Like anyplace that doesn't claim Trump is going to get impeached or has committed treason up to this point.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hmm. Like Breitbart and Fox?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> eMacMan brought up Hillary in reference to impeachment. Since she’s not president, her impeachment would be irrelevant. Do try to keep up when you’re responding to comments that weren’t directed to you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually I brought up Hiliary in reference to the treason part of your post. My direct reference to the Uranium 1 pay and play should have made that obvious.

Still have not seen any reference on your end to anything treasonous on the part of Trump, so it looks like you've been trumped.


----------



## FeXL

Long overdue.

Sarah Sanders: White House Is Looking Into Revoking the Security Clearances of John Brennan, James Clapper, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Michael Hayden and Susan Rice

Related:

Quick Update: White House Press Room "Gasped" When They Heard Their Most Productive Leakers Might Lose Their Security Clearances

I'll bet...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I don't care. Like anyplace that doesn't claim Trump is going to get impeached or has committed treason up to this point.




That’s not many. Try Breitbart and Fox. Sounds like a law firm for white supremacists.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Actually I brought up Hiliary in reference to the treason part of your post. My direct reference to the Uranium 1 pay and play should have made that obvious.
> 
> Still have not seen any reference on your end to anything treasonous on the part of Trump, so it looks like you've been trumped.



Funny! Humour. Ar ar.


----------



## FeXL

I guess you'd know.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sounds like a law firm for white supremacists.


----------



## Rps

Freddie_Biff said:


> You think it has something to do with Cohen?


Watch what happens in the next few days. Trump will go on a rampage and start pulling access and ramping up attacks in investigations. Now you have to ask yourself why.

Hint, think like an auditor.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Actually I brought up Hiliary in reference to the treason part of your post. My direct reference to the Uranium 1 pay and play should have made that obvious.
> 
> Still have not seen any reference on your end to anything treasonous on the part of Trump, so it looks like you've been trumped.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny! Humour. Ar ar.


I take it that's the good old white flag of surrender. If you can't come up with anything treasonous, it's really bad form to make the accusation.


----------



## Macfury

I think you're really barking up the wrong tree here.



Rps said:


> Watch what happens in the next few days. Trump will go on a rampage and start pulling access and ramping up attacks in investigations. Now you have to ask yourself why.
> 
> Hint, think like an auditor.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I take it that's the good old white flag of surrender. If you can't come up with anything treasonous, it's really bad form to make the accusation.



I came up with an example several posts ago. Go back and read. It’s really bad form to accuse someone of not doing something they’ve already done.


----------



## Macfury

Doubting the reports of Obama-appointed security staff who have consistently undermined you is not even close to the threshold for treason.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I came up with an example several posts ago. Go back and read. It’s really bad form to accuse someone of not doing something they’ve already done.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Doubting the reports of Obama-appointed security staff who have consistently undermined you is not even close to the threshold for treason.



The Cerberus speaks again.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Doubting the reports of Obama-appointed security staff who have consistently undermined you is not even close to the threshold for treason.


I'm sorry. Was that post directed at you?

The _nerve_...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry. Was that post directed at you?
> 
> 
> 
> The _nerve_...
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



The Cerberus is busy today.


----------



## FeXL

Twitter Caught Censoring Conservative Journalists With Site-Wide Shadowbans



> Two days after Twitter told Congress that they aren't politically biased when censoring content, several prominent conservatives discovered that the social media giant *automatically includes them in a site-wide "Quality Filter Discrimination" shadowban* which prevents anyone not already following them from viewing their posts.


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

TREASON!!! IMPEACH THE KENYAN!!!

Super-Spy Mariia Butina Met With High-Ranking US Government Officials!!!!
In 2015, When Obama Was President



> The #DeepState, the liberals, and the cucks are going to have to give us a consistent, principled rule for when #MeetingARussian is de facto proof of treason, and when it's not. At current moment, they are selectively applying the rule that if #TalkingWithARuskieMakesYouARuskie.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry. Was that post directed at you?
> 
> The _nerve_...
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:


I'm so confused. How do we respond in a way that His Majesty finds acceptable?:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm so confused. How do we respond in a way that His Majesty finds acceptable?:lmao:




How about read the effin post that it’s in response to. Or continue being a Cerberus. Whatever makes your peanut brittle.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

To do that post right, you should have cut off the laughing emoji on the end of my quote.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How about read the effin post that it’s in response to. Or continue being a Cerberus. Whatever makes your peanut brittle.


----------



## Macfury

Is Batman still angry about Bill Clinton?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Draft Dodgers...


----------



## Beej

What liberals (still) get wrong about Trump's support
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support


> One can be outraged at how Trump is enforcing America’s immigration laws without thinking that eliminating all border enforcement is a good idea. An idea like this keeps Republicans united in their support for Trump as it clearly shows how unacceptable the alternative is.


An informative article about reasons for Trump's support. It refers to a longer research piece from 2017 that I had missed. 

The research examines different groups of supporters.
https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publications/2016-elections/the-five-types-trump-voters


> This analysis finds five unique clusters of Trump voters: American Preservationists (20%), Staunch Conservatives (31%), Anti-Elites (19%), Free Marketeers (25%), and the Disengaged (5%)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Is Batman still angry about Bill Clinton?



Bill Clinton didn’t demand a military parade.


----------



## FeXL

So angry all the time...

Oh, I'm sorry. Have I broken The Law again by responding to a post that wasn't directly aimed at me?



Freddie_Biff said:


> How about read the effin post that it’s in response to.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I'm so confused. How do we respond in a way that His Majesty finds acceptable?:lmao:


Hell if I know... 

I say we continue as we are. It seems to create a fair amount of rancor.


----------



## SINC

Its hard to understand main stream media, isn't it?


----------



## Macfury

I guess Batman is pissed then...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Bill Clinton didn’t demand a military parade.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hell if I know...
> 
> 
> 
> I say we continue as we are. It seems to create a fair amount of rancor.




Not the rancor—that’s Star Wars. The Cerberus. It’s from Greek mythology.


----------



## FeXL

<Whoosh...>



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not the rancor—that’s Star Wars. The Cerberus. It’s from Greek mythology.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> <Whoosh...>




Speechless! There’s a first.


----------



## FeXL

Cfp=cfp+1



freddie_biff said:


> speechless! There’s a first.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

The bad guys in 1984 were globalists like you Freddie!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The bad guys in 1984 were globalists like you Freddie!



No, they were tyrannical fascist neo-Cons like you. You should read the book again.


----------



## Macfury

My gosh, Freddie--they were progressives! Anyone who studied Orwell and his life will understand that he was a liberal who was horrified to see the tyranny wrought by the progressives to the left of him. The world of _1984_ was the end result of the global governance sought by progressives. 

I can't imagine what sort of muddled hash you made of _Animal Farm_.





Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they were tyrannical fascist neo-Cons like you. You should read the book again.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> My gosh, Freddie--they were progressives! Anyone who studied Orwell and his life will understand that he was a liberal who was horrified to see the tyranny wrought by the progressives to the left of him. The world of _1984_ was the end result of the global governance sought by progressives.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't imagine what sort of muddled hash you made of _Animal Farm_.



This sounds like pretty much the opposite of your theory; Orwell was pro-democratic socialism, not against it. He was against totalitarian states like Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s USSR—states that Mr. Trump seems keen on emulating. Wake up, man. 



> Orwell espoused democratic socialism. In his essay, "Why I Write," published in 1947, two years before the publication of 1984, Orwell stated that he writes, among other reasons, from the "[d]esire to push the world in a certain direction, to alter other peoples' idea of the kind of society that they should strive after." Orwell used his writing to express his powerful political feelings, and that fact is readily apparent in the society he creates in 1984.
> 
> The society in 1984, although fictional, mirrors the political weather of the societies that existed all around him. Orwell's Oceania is a terrifying society reminiscent of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union — complete repression of the human spirit, absolute governmental control of daily life, constant hunger, and the systematic "vaporization" of individuals who do not, or will not, comply with the government's values.
> 
> Orwell despised the politics of the leaders he saw rise to power in the countries around him, and he despised what the politicians did to the people of those countries. Big Brother is certainly a fusing of both Stalin and Hitler, both real and terrifying leaders, though both on opposite sides of the philosophical spectrum. By combining traits from both the Soviet Union's and Germany's totalitarian states, Orwell makes clear that he is staunchly against any form of governmental totalitarianism, either from the left or the right of the political spectrum.
> 
> By making Big Brother so easily recognizable (he is physically similar to both Hitler and Stalin, all three having heavy black mustaches and charismatic speaking styles), Orwell makes sure that the reader of 1984 does not mistake his intention — to show clearly how totalitarianism negatively affects the human spirit and how it is impossible to remain freethinking under such circumstances.


 https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/1984/about-1984


----------



## Macfury

Good grief, Freddie--Cliff's notes! 

The author appears unaware that Oceania was not even a separate country in the novel--all of the countries were run by the same government. Orwell supported the democratic socialism of 1948--he was appalled by the desire of those people to march further leftward, because he knew that this direction led to servitude.

Think carefully before you answer this question. Which government is most likely to become a dictatorship--the government that disarms its citizens or the one that refuses to monopolize force in the hands of the government?


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


>


I wonder what Orwell would have said about those protesting free speech. Rallying and trying to shut down speakers on universities because they hold a different opinion then they do. Rioting, burning books, assaulting people again because they hold a different view. That seems much more fascist to me then anything else going on. This fake proclaimed tolerance by groups like AntiFa and people who align themselves with their ideology are dangerous. In the guise of tolerance they are the most intolerant. Agree with them or else.


----------



## Macfury

How about deciding which words are "politically correct" and pillorying citizens for stating that are only two sexes? (Do you see two finger or three Winston?). Creating new gender pronouns and declaring that they have replaced to proper ones? Progressives are the force behind Newspeak.



wonderings said:


> I wonder what Orwell would have said about those protesting free speech. Rallying and trying to shut down speakers on universities because they hold a different opinion then they do. Rioting, burning books, assaulting people again because they hold a different view. That seems much more fascist to me then anything else going on. This fake proclaimed tolerance by groups like AntiFa and people who align themselves with their ideology are dangerous. In the guise of tolerance they are the most intolerant. Agree with them or else.


----------



## FeXL

Hey! Back off!!!

Cliff's Notes got Freddie his degree.

(Now you know what it's worth...)



Macfury said:


> Good grief, Freddie--Cliff's notes!


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> I wonder what Orwell would have said about those protesting free speech. Rallying and trying to shut down speakers on universities because they hold a different opinion then they do. Rioting, burning books, assaulting people again because they hold a different view. That seems much more fascist to me then anything else going on. This fake proclaimed tolerance by groups like AntiFa and people who align themselves with their ideology are dangerous. In the guise of tolerance they are the most intolerant. Agree with them or else.


Nicely put.

BTW, that _is_ much more fascist than anything else going on.


----------



## FeXL

The EPA May Terminate California's Very Special Right to Impose More Stringent Pollution-Control Measures Than the Clean Air Act Requires on the Rest of the Nation



> Big, if true.
> 
> Summing up: the Clean Air Act enacts national standards for things like cars' exhaust. But it contains a provision which states that any state may be granted a waiver permitting them to enact even more stringent regulations, so long as they're "necessary" for that state.
> 
> California has sought such a waiver and has been granted that waiver for as long as the Clean Air Act has existed.
> 
> California is the country's largest auto-market, so car manufacturers just build for California. It would be more costly to set up factories to produce some cars that are California-legal and some others that are legal everywhere else. *So the waiver permits California to essentially set the nation's car-exhaust policies.*


M'bold.

Interesting.


----------



## Macfury

Look like Trump won considerable concessions from Europe to avoid tariffs... more winning!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Look like Trump won considerable concessions from Europe to avoid tariffs... more winning!



Even Republicans are turning on him now for that idiotic trade war. In what world is he winning? Seems you’ve been drinking the Fox Koolaid as well.


----------



## FeXL

What "Republicans"?

Not RINO's. Not GOPe. Not NeverTrumper's who claim to be on the political right.

True Republicans.

Whom?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Even Republicans are turning on him now for that idiotic trade war. In what world is he winning? Seems you’ve been drinking the Fox Koolaid as well.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Yeah you will hear that. You're mistaking them for Democrat farmers. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-u-s-farmers-give-trump-plan-a-cool-reception

In this case, however, the short-term pain has been inflicted by government which rightly needs to address the short-term dislocation as foreign countries continue to drop their tariffs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Another satisfied customer. Must be some prog snowflake.


----------



## Macfury

It was a prog snowflake--good guess! The idiot is now in custody facing charges of felony vandalism.


----------



## FeXL

FeXL said:


> What "Republicans"?
> 
> Not RINO's. Not GOPe. Not NeverTrumper's who claim to be on the political right.
> 
> True Republicans.
> 
> Whom?


Still looking, Freddie? Or conceding the point?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Still looking, Freddie? Or conceding the point?




Sorry. Did you say something?


----------



## Macfury

He's bored FeXL. _(Does not really understand the question. Can not formulate an answer.)_


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Another satisfied customer. Must be some prog snowflake.


I wonder how much Trump will sue for. Given his distorted views on value I am guessing he thinks that star is worth 100 Million easy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> I wonder how much Trump will sue for. Given his distorted views on value I am guessing he thinks that star is worth 100 Million easy.




Ha! It’s not even his star. Just his star to use.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Man, you could have pulled that gag out of an indexed joke book.


----------



## CubaMark

_An interesting read. No pull quotes - worth putting eyes on photons yourselves..._

*Evidence Shows Hackers Changed Votes in the 2016 Election But No One Will Admit It*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _An interesting read. No pull quotes - worth putting eyes on photons yourselves..._
> 
> 
> 
> *Evidence Shows Hackers Changed Votes in the 2016 Election But No One Will Admit It*




Yeah, but that’s “just” circumstantial evidence. LOL


----------



## CubaMark

(Raging Pencils)


----------



## Macfury

Trump is raising taxes?


----------



## Macfury

This is old stuff--but certainly explains why Democrats don't support voter ID and paper ballots. The funniest part was about hacking the election system in California--guess the Russians turned the state over to Hillary! Maybe they even tipped Texas to Trump!:lmao:



CubaMark said:


> _An interesting read. No pull quotes - worth putting eyes on photons yourselves..._
> 
> *Evidence Shows Hackers Changed Votes in the 2016 Election But No One Will Admit It*


----------



## Macfury

Memmmmmmories....

CM, here's an old post of yours, where you diss the drive for voter ID. Looks like it would actually help prevent the election tampering you're alerting us to, along with paper ballots.


https://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-915.html#post2343442


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Memmmmmmories....
> 
> CM, here's an old post of yours, where you diss the drive for voter ID. Looks like it would actually help prevent the election tampering you're alerting us to, along with paper ballots.
> 
> 
> https://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/99741-american-political-thread-915.html#post2343442


Did you provide the right link? That one leads to this discussion, which doesn't appear to have anything to do with Voter ID issues....?

_You know what's an actual, real problem? Not voter fraud. Voter suppression. 

Here's just one example:_

*Wisconsin Clerk Caught Blocking Campus Voting &"Cuz Students "Lean Democrat"*

_A Wisconsin city clerk has been caught refusing to set up an early polling place at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay campus because students “lean towards more Democrat.” In an August 26th email, clerk Kris Teske – appointed by Gov. Scott Walker ally Mayor Jim Schmitt – told state Rep. Eric Genrich (D-Green Bay) that she had concerns about setting up an early polling location on the Green Bay campus because of its partisan leanings and potential cost.

“I don’t like the idea at all for many reasons: Staffing, ballot security, budget, etc…UWGB is a polling location for students and residents on Election Day but I feel by asking for this to be the site for early voting is encouraging the students to vote more than benefiting the city as a whole. I have heard it said that students lean more toward the democrats and he (Genrich) is a democrat … Do I have an argument about it being more of a benefit to the democrats? I have spoken with our Chief of Staff and others at City Hall and they agree that budget wise this isn’t going to happen.”

The campus was a site of voter controversy during the primary, when student voters were outraged over long lines that made voters wait hours to cast their ballots and all-around and “chaotic” organization, complicated by the stringent voter ID laws passed by Republican Governor Scott Walker.

Mayor Schmitt himself was charged in September with three counts of violating campaign finance laws.
(OccupyDemocrats / see also MSNBC)_​


----------



## Macfury

The part that caught my eye:



> ....student voters were outraged over long lines that made voters wait hours to cast their ballots and all-around and “chaotic” organization, complicated by the stringent voter ID laws passed by Republican Governor Scott Walker.


Maybe you didn't agree with the students on this.


----------



## CubaMark

Why are you resurrecting a two-year-old discussion on voter suppression in a thread that most recently has dealt with Russian interference in the US election? Is this an attempt to distract from the matter at hand, or are you really that interested in my opinion on the voter ID issues in the USA? Seems an odd turn to take.


----------



## CubaMark

_Meanwhile, Trump apparently has mastered the ability to travel through time.... (emphasis mine)_

*Trump says new health plans, not available until September, already doing 'record business'*

President Trump on Thursday touted his administration’s new health insurance plans, which aren't available to the public until Sept. 1, saying they're already generating "record business."

Speaking at a roundtable in Iowa, where he was joined by state and local officials, as well as a few members of his Cabinet, the president highlighted forthcoming health plans that serve as an alternative to the ones offered under ObamaCare.

Trump said Department of Labor Secretary Alex Acosta, who was at the event, “has come up with incredible healthcare plans.”

“*Alex, I hear it’s like record business that they’re doing*,” *Trump said of the plans, which aren't available for another five weeks*. “We just opened about two months ago and *I’m hearing that the numbers are incredible -- the numbers of people getting really, really good healthcare instead of Obamacare, which is a disaster.*”

*The administration announced its association health plans last month.* The plans, which allow small businesses and other groups to band together to buy health insurance, are part of a broader administration effort to offer slimmed-down, cheaper plans as an alternative to ObamaCare plans.

Trump did not cite any numbers regarding the health plans at Thursday's event, while Acosta said he’d heard Iowa businesses are “putting those associations together."

The Labor Department has said *associations cannot establish association health plans until Sept. 1.*

(The Hill)​


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> The part that caught my eye:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you didn't agree with the students on this.


You mean those same voters who complain about line ups for voting but will stand outside for three days to buy a cell phone?


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> You mean those same voters who complain about line ups for voting but will stand outside for three days to buy a cell phone?


With all due respect, Rps, once the polls close, they're closed. It's a legitimate complaint. Apple stores will be open again the next day for those who don't like long lines.


----------



## Macfury

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of worrying about "Russian hacking" in voter systems, but don't support voter ID that could help keep vote tallies accurate.



CubaMark said:


> Why are you resurrecting a two-year-old discussion on voter suppression in a thread that most recently has dealt with Russian interference in the US election? Is this an attempt to distract from the matter at hand, or are you really that interested in my opinion on the voter ID issues in the USA? Seems an odd turn to take.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

This actors must be sweltering in the California heat... hope it was worth it for them!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This actors must be sweltering in the California heat... hope it was worth it for them!



What dedicated people will do for a photo op.


----------



## Beej

Motherhood in the Age of Fear
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/opinion/sunday/motherhood-in-the-age-of-fear.html


> The officer asked where she had been, and when she lifted her cup, he said, “So you abandoned your children?”
> 
> That’s when Ms. Koehler laughed. “It’s not against the law in Illinois to leave your children unattended. You have to prove that I’m willfully endangering their life by going into Starbucks and getting a cup of coffee where I can see them the whole time. Good luck getting that case approved by a state’s attorney.”
> 
> The officer didn’t end up pressing charges, but instead put in a call to the Department of Children and Family Services. As a result Ms. Koehler had to provide references attesting to her parenting, her children had to get physicals from a doctor, and the family was interviewed in their home, all before the case could be dismissed.


My neighbourhood still seems "normal", with kids running around outside of school hours. Is this only an American thing or just more prominent through American media?


----------



## Macfury

Very few running around in midtown Toronto. Backyards only or supervised in playgrounds.



Beej said:


> Motherhood in the Age of Fear
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/opinion/sunday/motherhood-in-the-age-of-fear.html
> 
> 
> My neighbourhood still seems "normal", with kids running around outside of school hours. Is this only an American thing or just more prominent through American media?


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Very few running around in midtown Toronto. Backyards only or supervised in playgrounds.


Any stories of charges being laid or child services brought on in for brief periods of being unsupervised in public?


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Any stories of charges being laid or child services brought on in for brief periods of being unsupervised in public?


No. It's fear of judgement from other parents that seems to motivate.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hmmm.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hmmm.


I can make a picture as well comparing someone visually to Hitler. Took me all of 5 mins and really tells nothing.


I do not remember anyone from Trumps side of the campaign protesting free speech and burning books, seems way more a Nazi thing to do than anything Trump has done.

And for the record I am not trying to compared Obama to Hitler in anyway, just showing how senseless it is and really is a low cheap form of comparison without any substance.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I can make a picture as well comparing someone visually to Hitler. Took me all of 5 mins and really tells nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not remember anyone from Trumps side of the campaign protesting free speech and burning books, seems way more a Nazi thing to do than anything Trump has done.
> 
> 
> 
> And for the record I am not trying to compared Obama to Hitler in anyway, just showing how senseless it is and really is a low cheap form of comparison without any substance.






Good for you! Doesn’t diminish the similarity though of Trump’s style, particularly with the press, which is way much more dictatorial than Obama’s was.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good for you! Doesn’t diminish the similarity though of Trump’s style, particularly with the press, which is way much more dictatorial than Obama’s was.


Trump is a loud mouth for sure but I do not blame him entirely for his antics with the press. They have been after him since day one of him running. I would have little patience for the media as well if they criticized me that harshly over every little thing. I would still not compare him to Hitler the man responsible for of the worst genocides in human history, that is always the cheap shot people through out when there is nothing else.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Trump is a loud mouth for sure but I do not blame him entirely for his antics with the press. They have been after him since day one of him running. I would have little patience for the media as well if they criticized me that harshly over every little thing. I would still not compare him to Hitler the man responsible for of the worst genocides in human history, that is always the cheap shot people through out when there is nothing else.




He seems to approve of the one state-sanctioned news source: Fox News.


----------



## Macfury

Why would't he prefer a news source that treats him with some respect? Obama used to crap on FOX all the time because he didn't like the light they focusd on his antics.



Freddie_Biff said:


> He seems to approve of the one state-sanctioned news source: Fox News.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why would't he prefer a news source that treats him with some respect? Obama used to crap on FOX all the time because he didn't like the light they focusd on his antics.



Trump approves of ONE news source. That should tel you something right there. Don’t believe what you read and see. Only trust my Twitter feed.


----------



## eMacMan

So you prefer the CIA controlled CNN and Wash Po??? Talk about state run propaganda mills.

And yes Fox is just as bad. Sadly this bunch makes Russia Today look like objective solid reporting.


----------



## SINC

Comparing any president to Hitler is the hallmark of immaturity and only shows the desperation of the poster.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Using the word “despatation” when posting shows how desperately a poster wants to make it look like they know words nobody else does.


----------



## SINC

Spell check thought it was a word, although it didn't bring on Hitler.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Spell check thought it was a word, although it didn't bring on Hitler.




These are despatate times.


----------



## SINC

Hitler: Last resort by the desperate.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Hitler: Last resort by the desperate.


In this case it seems to be a _first _resort by the desperate.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> He seems to approve of the one state-sanctioned news source: Fox News.


So that makes him like Hitler? Is every painter going to be compared to Hitler because Hitler liked painting? 

How many holocaust survivors are making this comparison?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> So that makes him like Hitler? Is every painter going to be compared to Hitler because Hitler liked painting?
> 
> 
> 
> How many holocaust survivors are making this comparison?




Oh lighten up. It was a joke FFS.


----------



## Macfury

"I was only joking" is the weakest of defenses for your failed post.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Oh lighten up. It was a joke FFS.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> "I was only joking" is the weakest of defenses for your failed post.




You seriously need to get a life. Do you just sit at your computer all day?


----------



## Macfury

If you put more effort into your posts, you'd hardly know I was here.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You seriously need to get a life. Do you just sit at your computer all day?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you put more effort into your posts, you'd hardly know I was here.




It’s not your job to critique other people’s posts. Why not offer something of your own once in a while? Talk about lazy.


----------



## Macfury

I do offer my own posts as well as comment on your laziness. If you'd bothered to check before barfing out your critique you would know that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s not your job to critique other people’s posts. Why not offer something of your own once in a while? Talk about lazy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I do offer my own posts as well as comment on your laziness. If you'd bothered to check before barfing out your critique you would know that.



Sorry, Macfury, but you really are too monotonous to talk to on any sort of regular basis. No offense, but the things you wish to talk about bore me to death.


----------



## Macfury

I understand that. I'm targeting my posts to a better-informed audience.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry, Macfury, but you really are too monotonous to talk to on any sort of regular basis. No offense, but the things you wish to talk about bore me to death.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I understand that. I'm targeting my posts to a better-informed audience.




It’s not working. Good luck though!


----------



## Macfury

Do you think I should use more light sabres and memes?



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s not working. Good luck though!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do you think I should use more light sabres and memes?




Do whatever makes you happy. Just don’t expect me to talk about it. 

Which reminds me: collusion is not a crime.


----------



## Macfury

Do you actually understand that collusion is not a crime, or are you just posting it because you like the picture?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do you actually understand that collusion is not a crime, or are you just posting it because you like the picture?



You missed the point. Everyone except Trump knows that conspiracy is a crime, not collusion. Yet he's been going on and on for over a year about how there's been no collusion between Russia and him. You really could stand to pay attention to what Trump says to the press.


----------



## Macfury

Conspiring to do what?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You missed the point. Everyone except Trump knows that conspiracy is a crime, not collusion. Yet he's been going on and on for over a year about how there's been no collusion between Russia and him. You really could stand to pay attention to what Trump says to the press.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Conspiring to do what?



What do you think? Ever heard of Robert Mueller‘s investigation?


----------



## Macfury

Sure. He's not identified any crime that he's investigating.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What do you think? Ever heard of Robert Mueller‘s investigation?


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Satan yet. Get a grip, CM, you admire Castro.


----------



## wonderings

Have I missed something? Trump is a cult leader now? So he is Hitler and Satan all rolled up in one. Guess you can justify an assassination attempt now.


----------



## Macfury

I can't imagine where you go from Satan. It's incredible to see how quickly these ninnies have blown their ammunition through instant escalation.



wonderings said:


> Have I missed something? Trump is a cult leader now? So he is Hitler and Satan all rolled up in one. Guess you can justify an assassination attempt now.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's incredible to see how quickly these ninnies have blown their ammunition through instant escalation.


Jes' like a teenager on his first date...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

New Hires Rise by 219,000, Blowing Away Estimate of 185,000



> _July's job gains were the best since February, when 241,000 jobs were added. Jobs growth for the previous month was also revised up to 181,000 from 177,000.
> 
> "The job market is booming, impacted by the deficit-financed tax cuts and increases in government spending," said Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics, in a statement. "Tariffs have yet to materially impact jobs, but the multinational companies shed jobs last month, signaling the threat."
> 
> Medium-sized businesses, which employ 50 to 499 people, added the most payrolls in July as they created 119,000. Larger businesses, meanwhile, expanded their payrolls by 48,000. Small businesses, which employ one to 49 people, say payrolls grow by 52,000._​


Related:


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I can't imagine where you go from Satan.


Bannon. He's what they said Cheney was but this time they, like, totally mean it literally.


----------



## SINC

Snort! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Cole's Notes version:

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, 85 year old Democratic Supreme Court Justice, was going to step down if Bill's Wife won. Now that Trump is in, she wants to go another 5 years. Progs, afeared that she may not make it to the end of her proposed term, *have started offering up their organs in case of issues*.

If they only had a brain...

Panicked libs offer up their organs after Ginsburg said she thinks she’ll make it ‘five more years’



> Understanding the long-term implications if President Donald Trump seats a third Supreme Court justice, liberals are literally offering their organs to keep 85-year-old Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the bench.
> 
> This coming after Ginsburg told CNN on Sunday, “My senior colleague, Justice John Paul Stevens, stepped down when he was 90, so think I have at least five more years.”


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

‘President Regulation’ hit with dose of his own medicine as Obama library delayed for … well, karma



> After several years in the making, construction for the project was finally due to start 2018, but will be delayed from this year until next so that a federal review process can take place, the Washington Times reported.
> 
> According to the Times:
> 
> _Before the presidential center can be built, the federal government will review its impact on Jackson Park. The park on the city’s South Side is on the National Register of Historic Places. The project’s environmental effects will also be analyzed. Any adverse effects must be resolved before construction is allowed._​
> The revelation that an environmental impact study was a big part of the delay sent people’s “irony meters” on overdrive.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I don't get the joke. Who needs an ID to buy groceries?


----------



## FeXL

If it wasn't for double standards, the Progs wouldn't have any standards at all.

NYT Hires Virulent Racist for Their Editorial Board;
The Cucks, Get This, Insist That She Should Keep Her Job



> The Federalist has an article, where you can see some choice tweets.
> 
> Now, if you're keeping score, Cuck French and Cuck Shapiro have thusfar made the following pronouncements, exactly tracking with liberal opinion on each matter, curiously enough:
> 
> * Cuck French and Cuck Shapiro both called for the firing of Roseanne Barr over one allegedly racist tweet.
> 
> 
> * Then Cuck French and Cuck Shapiro came to the defense of a strident anti-Trump liberal, James Gunn, when old tweets resurfaced in which he made rape jokes and pedophilia jokes. Again, they decided that unlike the Roseanne Barr case, corporations should not fire people over old tweets. They conceded that corporations could do this but argued they shouldn't -- curiously, an argument they entirely overlooked in the case of a Trump supporter.
> 
> Now the New York Times has hired a left-wing with a disturbing and very long history of anti-white racism -- not Roseanne's single tweet about someone who, let's face it, is whiter than most white people -- Cuck French and Cuck Shapiro _again_ ride to a left-winger's rescue. Because of course they do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't get the joke. Who needs an ID to buy groceries?




Exactly. Your hero Trump seems to think everyone does.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Your hero Trump seems to think everyone does.


Trump thinks everyone needs an ID to by groceries? This is obviously some sort of attempt at humour regarding Obamas birth, not sure why it is coming up now unless there is something in the news I missed that makes this relevant again.


----------



## FeXL

Probably don't want to risk getting shot by their own guy...

Democrats Refuse To Play Republicans In Annual Softball Game



> Every year the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee play a softball game to promote bipartisanship and cooperation. This is the Age of Trump however and democrats are currently suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome so there will be no game this year. The DNC bailed on the annual softball game, which means liberals literally took their ball and went home. This leftist temper tantrum gets worse by the day.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Trump thinks everyone needs an ID to by groceries? This is obviously some sort of attempt at humour regarding Obamas birth, not sure why it is coming up now unless there is something in the news I missed that makes this relevant again.




Apparently you missed Trump’s comment that everyone needs ID to go to the grocery store. Sarah Sanders tried to cover for him by suggesting that it’s needed to buy cigarettes and alcohol, which was not what Trump said.

 https://www.news1130.com/video/2018/08/01/trump-claims-americans-need-id-to-buy-groceries/


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently you missed Trump’s comment that everyone needs ID to go to the grocery store. Sarah Sanders tried to cover for him by suggesting that it’s needed to buy cigarettes and alcohol, which was not what Trump said.
> 
> https://www.news1130.com/video/2018/08/01/trump-claims-americans-need-id-to-buy-groceries/


I did indeed, was just reading on CNN about it. 

I wonder if Trump has ever been in a grocery store on his own to buy groceries. 

I could care less about the slip up and what he really meant, does not really change anything. I never thought of him as a blue collar guy, down with the working class. Looks like it some states they do have photo ID when buying groceries but that is for food stamps and would make sense to be to keep other people from using your food stamps.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I did indeed, was just reading on CNN about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if Trump has ever been in a grocery store on his own to buy groceries.
> 
> 
> 
> I could care less about the slip up and what he really meant, does not really change anything. I never thought of him as a blue collar guy, down with the working class. Looks like it some states they do have photo ID when buying groceries but that is for food stamps and would make sense to be to keep other people from using your food stamps.



I doubt very much as well that Trump goes shopping for groceries. I’m sure he has people to get his Diet Coke and KFC. Odd though, as rich as he claims to be, I see him as basically a trailer park kind of mentality. That’s probably unfair to those who live in trailer parks, because I imagine some of them must read and watch more than Fox News.


----------



## Macfury

But nonetheless, one still needs an ID to use food stamps, or buy alcohol and cigarettes.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I doubt very much as well that Trump goes shopping for groceries. I’m sure he has people to get his Diet Coke and KFC. Odd though, as rich as he claims to be, I see him as basically a trailer park kind of mentality. That’s probably unfair to those who live in trailer parks, because I imagine some of them must read and watch more than Fox News.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> But nonetheless, one still needs an ID to use food stamps, or buy alcohol and cigarettes.



But not groceries. Trump very clearly stated groceries.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Orwell was a real person, Freddie--not fictional.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Orwell was a real person, Freddie--not fictional.



You really miss a lot of jokes, don’t you? It’s tiresome trying to explain them to you.


----------



## Macfury

It's tiresome seeing jokes so poorly constructed that I have to poke fun at the low standards of the person who posted them.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's tiresome seeing jokes so poorly constructed that I have to poke fun at the low standards of the person who posted them.


I guess Freddie has never been to a stand up routine where the comedian was so bad the crowd heckled him for it.


----------



## FeXL

h/t AoS

Sen. Kamala Harris Brings Up Slavery, Jim Crow, Lynchings at a Hearing on Russian Meddling



> We have a history of slavery in this country. We have a history of Jim Crow, of lynchings, of segregation and discrimination. And indeed, we have a lot to do to repair and to recover from the harm of the past and some harm that continues today.


Ummm...

Would Harris be talking about Democrat slavery, Democrat Jim Crow & Democrat lynchings?


----------



## FeXL

But Maybe It Was Just a Satirical Attack



> If, as the Washington Post's Experts on Expertise tell us, it is impossible for a nonwhite person to be racist against whites, does that also mean (which it must) that it is impossible for a nonwhite person to commit a hate crime?
> 
> And if nonwhite people now have license to commit racial attacks at will (without being charged for the racial hate component of the attack), is it really "white supremacy" we have to fear?


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Would Harris be talking about Democrat slavery, Democrat Jim Crow & Democrat lynchings?


I see that you are still unable to comprehend the evolution of U.S. political parties - or you flat-out refuse to recognize historical reality because these labels of 'Democrat' and 'Republican' serve your current ideological interests.

Maybe do some research on _William Jennings Bryan_, and the policy shifts that occurred with both US federal parties between the 1860s and mid-1930s. 

Or, you know, continue to demonstrate your profound ignorance on the topic.


----------



## CubaMark

_Meanwhile, another person who lives with a deluded sense of reality (i.e., a Trump supporter) is all surprised that his non-citizen, non-resident wife is being deported under Trump's immigrant crackdown. _Where have I heard this before? *(my emphasis added below)*

*Exhausting all options, wife of U.S. veteran 'self-deports'*

Alejandra and Temo Juarez, a naturalized citizen who runs a roofing business, quietly raised Pamela and their nine-year-old daughter, Estela, in the central Florida town of Davenport until a 2013 traffic stop exposed her legal status.

Afterward, she regularly checked in with U.S. Immigration and Customs officials, which typically went after higher-priority targets like people with criminal records.

*Temo didn't figure his vote for President Donald Trump would affect them personally.* That was before the enforcement of Trump's "zero tolerance" policy toward illegal immigration.

Now, the Juarez family will be divided in two: Estela will join her mother in Mexico after she gets settled, while Temo cares for Pamela and pays the bills.

Alejandra, 39, petitioned to become a citizen in 2001 but was rejected because she was accused of making a false statement at the border when she sought asylum in 1998, attorney Richard Maney said. He said she was asked about her citizenship and told authorities she had been a student in Memphis, Tenn., for a short time, so border officials apparently thought she was falsely claiming to be an American citizen.

"This is not going to be the last case like this," Maney said. "This is potentially the first of many. There are many military spouses in the same situation."

* * *​
"It's an absolute disgrace by the Trump administration to be deporting a patriotic spouse," Soto said. "Her husband, Temo, served in the Marines… while she was at home on the home-front, raising two young women. What justice does this serve?"

Alejandra ultimately decided to "self-deport" to Mexico, rather than turn herself in to be detained and then deported. After 20 years in the United States, she no longer has family or friends in the country, so she chose Merida, a city in the Yucatan where a small community of deported military spouses might help her.

* * *​
"My husband fought for this country three times. The administration, yourself, you think you are punishing me. You're not just punishing me," she said, referring to her family. "I hope this make him happy. And I really pray that God will forgive him."

(CBC)​


----------



## Macfury

A lot of votes affect people personally. People who voted for Obama didn't think they would be forced to give up their insurance plans and doctors when he said they could keep their plans and doctors.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> A lot of votes affect people personally. People who voted for Obama didn't think they would be forced to give up their insurance plans and doctors when he said they could keep their plans and doctors.


Sure. Obamacare was a gift to the medical insurance companies, no doubt. But the Republicans' had NO response other than "DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS! THINK ABOUT GRANDMAAAAAA!!!!!!", NO plan of their own despite years to get their **** together, and what they've managed to achieve to date is not much more than remove any preexisting condition coverage. 

Terrible as both of those things are, they didn't result in the forced separation of families.

But do continue with your false equivalencies. Always entertaining.


----------



## Rps

CubaMark, the U.S. healthcare system is complex and thanks to Nixon, it maybe unable to be bettered. However a point that I find curious is that you can spend billions on the military and no one bats an eye, but try to spend on healthcare and the world is coming to an end! Can you say Space Force anyone?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I see that you are still unable to comprehend the evolution of U.S. political parties - or you flat-out refuse to recognize historical reality because these labels of 'Democrat' and 'Republican' serve your current ideological interests.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe do some research on _William Jennings Bryan_, and the policy shifts that occurred with both US federal parties between the 1860s and mid-1930s.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, you know, continue to demonstrate your profound ignorance on the topic.




He doesn’t even use Democrat and Republican anymore; it’s just prog and not-prog now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> CubaMark, the U.S. healthcare system is complex and thanks to Nixon, it maybe unable to be bettered. However a point that I find curious is that you can spend billions on the military and no one bats an eye, but try to spend on healthcare and the world is coming to an end! Can you say Space Force anyone?



With laser shootie-guns! Pew! Pew! Pew!


----------



## Macfury

The forced separation of families has been going on for decades, provided members of those families broke the law.



CubaMark said:


> Sure. Obamacare was a gift to the medical insurance companies, no doubt. But the Republicans' had NO response other than "DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS! THINK ABOUT GRANDMAAAAAA!!!!!!", NO plan of their own despite years to get their **** together, and what they've managed to achieve to date is not much more than remove any preexisting condition coverage.
> 
> Terrible as both of those things are, they didn't result in the forced separation of families.
> 
> But do continue with your false equivalencies. Always entertaining.


----------



## CubaMark

_*Lies and the lying liar that tells 'em....*_

*Trump acknowledges purpose of meeting with Russian lawyer*

President Donald Trump on Sunday acknowledged that the 2016 Trump Tower meeting between a Kremlin-connected lawyer and his son was to collect information about his political opponent, casting new light on a moment central to the special counsel’s Russia probe.

Trump, amid a series of searing tweets sent from his New Jersey golf club, tore into two of his favourite targets, the news media and Robert Mueller’s ongoing investigation into possible links between the president’s campaign and Russia. Trump unleashed particularly fury at reports that he was anxious about the Trump Tower meeting attended by Donald Trump Jr. and other senior campaign officials.

* * *​
But 13 months ago, Trump gave a far different explanation for the meeting. A July 2017 statement dictated by the president read: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago.”

But since then, the story about the meeting has changed several times, eventually forced by the discovery of emails between the president’s eldest son and an intermediary from the Russian government offering damaging information about Trump’s opponent, Hillary Clinton. Betraying no surprise or misgivings about the offer from a hostile foreign power, Trump Jr. replied: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Sunday’s tweet was Trump’s clearest statement yet on the purpose of the meeting, which has become a focal point of Mueller’s investigation even as the president and his lawyers try to downplay its significance and pummel the Mueller probe with attacks. On Sunday, Trump again suggested without evidence that Mueller was biased against him, declaring, “This is the most one sided Witch Hunt in the history of our country.”

And as Trump and his allies have tried to discredit the probe, a new talking point has emerged: that even if that meeting was held to collect damaging information, none was provided and “collusion” – Trump’s go-to description of what Mueller is investigating – never occurred.

(GlobalNews)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _*Lies and the lying liar that tells 'em....*_
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump acknowledges purpose of meeting with Russian lawyer*
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump on Sunday acknowledged that the 2016 Trump Tower meeting between a Kremlin-connected lawyer and his son was to collect information about his political opponent, casting new light on a moment central to the special counsel’s Russia probe.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump, amid a series of searing tweets sent from his New Jersey golf club, tore into two of his favourite targets, the news media and Robert Mueller’s ongoing investigation into possible links between the president’s campaign and Russia. Trump unleashed particularly fury at reports that he was anxious about the Trump Tower meeting attended by Donald Trump Jr. and other senior campaign officials.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> But 13 months ago, Trump gave a far different explanation for the meeting. A July 2017 statement dictated by the president read: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago.”
> 
> 
> 
> But since then, the story about the meeting has changed several times, eventually forced by the discovery of emails between the president’s eldest son and an intermediary from the Russian government offering damaging information about Trump’s opponent, Hillary Clinton. Betraying no surprise or misgivings about the offer from a hostile foreign power, Trump Jr. replied: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday’s tweet was Trump’s clearest statement yet on the purpose of the meeting, which has become a focal point of Mueller’s investigation even as the president and his lawyers try to downplay its significance and pummel the Mueller probe with attacks. On Sunday, Trump again suggested without evidence that Mueller was biased against him, declaring, “This is the most one sided Witch Hunt in the history of our country.”
> 
> 
> 
> And as Trump and his allies have tried to discredit the probe, a new talking point has emerged: that even if that meeting was held to collect damaging information, none was provided and “collusion” – Trump’s go-to description of what Mueller is investigating – never occurred.
> 
> 
> 
> (GlobalNews)​



Collusion—Trump keeps using that word. I don’t think it means what he thinks it means.


----------



## Macfury

I guess he can join your team, then!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Collusion—Trump keeps using that word. I don’t think it means what he thinks it means.


----------



## Rps

Trump and his lawyer use bumper sticker politics. Collusion is a catch all term that rolls into things like....treason, bribery, influence peddeling, and just good old fashioned corruption. Yogi Berra was quoted as saying you can observe a lot just by looking.....


----------



## Macfury

But if that's the case then the purchase of the Steele dossier by Hillary Clinton's campaign is also one of those. In a special counsel, one can't simply use a catch-all phrase to cover any outcome--the crime must be defined. That's why Rod Rosenstein back-pedaled and (illegally) wrote a new retroactive scope of investigations for Mueller when the investigation was foundering.



Rps said:


> Trump and his lawyer use bumper sticker politics. Collusion is a catch all term that rolls into things like....treason, bribery, influence peddeling, and just good old fashioned corruption. Yogi Berra was quoted as saying you can observe a lot just by looking.....


----------



## Rps

That maybe, however I don’t think the Steele file was part of a hostile foreign government. The issue Trump has to worry about, other than his mindless twitter rants, is that you do not have to have an outcome in order to commit conspiracy....and there’s that little thing called the Logan Act.


----------



## Macfury

QUOTE=Rps;2662168]That maybe, however I don’t think the Steele file was part of a hostile foreign government. ....and there’s that little thing called the Logan Act.[/QUOTE]

The Logan Act would not apply. It involves an attempt by a private citizen to interfere with negotiations of the US with a hostile power--that is to negotiate on behalf of your country as a private citizen. A more apt application would be John Kerry traveling to Iran as a private citizen to shore up their resistance to Trump's effort to nix the Iran nuclear deal. However, nobody has yet been prosecuted under the Logan Act over more then two centuries.

QUOTE=Rps;2662168]The issue Trump has to worry about, other than his mindless twitter rants, is that you do not have to have an outcome in order to commit conspiracy[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that you can ask a friendly government for intel on your political opponent, but you may not ask one considered "hostile."


----------



## Rps

MacFury you mean like using national security for trade deals? 

I know you are a Trump fan, I’m not. However I would be surprised if he survives his second term. Chances are they won’t go after a sitting president, but if the Dems win the House, impeachment can’t be too far behind depending on what comes out of the Russia investigation. I would doubt the Senate would impeach him....just ask Bill on that one.

Basically, the Logan Act CAN be used and the conspiracy doesn’t have to be successful to be a conspiracy.


----------



## Macfury

The Logan Act can't be used because there was no effort to negotiate on behalf of the United States. That's what Kerry was doing. 

The Dems would launch impeachment proceedings simply because he is a Republican. Since Carter, everyone has wanted to impeach everyone else as a payback for winning the election. The Russia investigation would be used or not used, depending on its outcome.

And the Senate would not impeach him with the 2/3 majority required.




Rps said:


> MacFury you mean like using national security for trade deals?
> 
> I know you are a Trump fan, I’m not. However I would be surprised if he survives his second term. Chances are they won’t go after a sitting president, but if the Dems win the House, impeachment can’t be too far behind depending on what comes out of the Russia investigation. I would doubt the Senate would impeach him....just ask Bill on that one.
> 
> Basically, the Logan Act CAN be used and the conspiracy doesn’t have to be successful to be a conspiracy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Freddie's hero, Sean Connery:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## CubaMark

*Puerto Rican Government Acknowledges Hurricane Death Toll of 1,427*










The government of Puerto Rico has quietly acknowledged in a report posted online that in all likelihood more than 1,400 people died in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria — a figure that is more than 20 times the official death toll.

Hurricane Maria cut through the island on Sept. 20, knocking out power and initially killing about a dozen people. The government’s official count eventually swelled to 64, as more people died from suicide, lack of access to health care and other factors. The number has not changed despite several academic assessments that official death certificates did not come close to tallying the storm’s fatal toll.

But in a draft of a report to Congress requesting $139 billion in recovery funds, scheduled for official release on Thursday, the Puerto Rican government admits that 1,427 more people died in the last four months of 2017 compared with the same time frame in the previous year. The figures came from death registry statistics that were released in June, but which were never publicly acknowledged by officials on the island.

“Although the official death count from the Puerto Rico Department of Public Safety was initially 64, the toll appears to be much higher,” said the report, titled “Transformation and Innovation in the Wake of Devastation.”

* * *​
The government was widely criticized for undercounting the number of people who died on the island as the power outage stretched for months, causing deaths from diabetes and sepsis to soar. Many people died from lack of access to hospitals, or because there was no power to run the machines they used to breathe.

* * *​
Researchers at Penn State University had reached an estimate very similar to The Times’ assessment. A much-publicized study from Harvard University showed the deaths could have ranged from 800 to 8,500.

The final version of the recovery plan being submitted to Congress outlines ambitious projects for Puerto Rico that include major highway renovations, $15 billion for the Department of Education and $26 billion for the energy grid. The government has asked for $6 billion for repair and replacement of public buildings and $3.9 billion for environmental use, according to an announcement from the governor’s office.

(NYT)​


----------



## SINC

Looks to me like cautious management. How man times have governments been hosed by shaky governments to drive costs far above reality? Think all those governments are honest? Really? I mean really? Or how many government members crooked pockets get lined by exagerrated claims? Huh? How many times?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Freddie's hero, Sean Connery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


No worky.

Even Freddie's 10 million pixel x 10 million pixel memes work. Come on MF!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> No worky.
> 
> 
> 
> Even Freddie's 10 million pixel x 10 million pixel memes work. Come on MF!




Hee hee!


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

That's pretty funny--the video in your response played without a problem!



smashedbanana said:


> No worky.
> 
> Even Freddie's 10 million pixel x 10 million pixel memes work. Come on MF!


----------



## SINC

Where does Freddie hang out to keep finding such mindless drivel?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Where does Freddie hang out to keep finding such mindless drivel?




Drivel? You don’t think getting electricity back in Puerto Rico after this many months without is a bigger priority than a “Space Force”?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Drivel? You don’t think getting electricity back in Puerto Rico after this many months without is a bigger priority than a “Space Force”?


The drivel part is the two issues are totally unrelated.

Kind of like this:

I enjoy ice cream and eat it often. My car needs an oil change.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The drivel part is the two issues are totally unrelated.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of like this:
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy ice cream and eat it often. My car needs an oil change.



That’s why you don’t understand today’s humour apparently.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s why you don’t understand today’s humour apparently.


Not me Freddie. That's your problem. Kinda like yer transgender views.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Not me Freddie. That's your problem. Kinda like yer transgender views.




Nope. You're deliberately obtuse when it comes to things like humour. That's YOUR problem.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. You're deliberately obtuse when it comes to things like humour. That's YOUR problem.


Much of what you post has no humour. And you think that is others fault?

Interesting perspective indeed.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Much of what you post has no humour. And you think that is others fault?
> 
> Interesting perspective indeed.


It's always the audience's fault when the comedian fails to impress, you silly!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Much of what you post has no humour. And you think that is others fault?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting perspective indeed.




Other people get it. But not you.


----------



## eMacMan

Political correctness and Greenie Weenie policies partly to blame for California wildfires? Sadly it is almost certainly so, just as it is next door in BC and even here in Alberta. Worth a watch even if you are a city slicker who thinks you have all the environmental answers.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajPpP3vbD5c[/ame]


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Other people get it. But not you.


Far as I can tell you are the only person here who gets the attempted humour you post.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Far as I can tell you are the only person here who gets the attempted humour you post.



In case you hadn’t noticed, Don, there’s not that many people with a sense of humour here. In fact, there’s not many people, period.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Where does Freddie hang out to keep finding such mindless drivel?


That seems to be an example of a repeated theme in his memes: 

Government is doing something to address a particular situation... why don't some people get things for free and have other people pay for them?


----------



## FeXL

Whom on these boards doesn't have a sense of humour? Be specific.



Freddie_Biff said:


> In case you hadn’t noticed, Don, there’s not that many people with a sense of humour here.


----------



## FeXL

Finally...

After Strzok firing, Trump says Clinton investigation should be ‘redone’



> In tweets celebrating news that FBI agent Peter Strzok was fired from the FBI Monday, *President Donald Trump called for the reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation, declaring the original investigation led by Strzok a “total fraud.”*
> 
> _Agent Peter Strzok was just fired from the FBI – finally. The list of bad players in the FBI & DOJ gets longer & longer. Based on the fact that Strzok was in charge of the Witch Hunt, will it be dropped? It is a total Hoax. No Collusion, No Obstruction – I just fight back!
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2018
> 
> Just fired Agent Strzok, formerly of the FBI, was in charge of the Crooked Hillary Clinton sham investigation. It was a total fraud on the American public and should be properly redone!
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2018_​
> Strzok was one of the lead agents in the criminal investigation into whether former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton violated federal law by storing classified information on a private email server. The FBI under Comey declined to prosecute Clinton for any possible violations of the Espionage Act. In Comey’s statement, he said Clinton had acted with “extreme carelessness.”


Bold mine.

Agree entirely.


----------



## eMacMan

Sadly or typically Strzok, I believe is still ungainfully employed by the CIA


----------



## Macfury

Strzok was just fired and raised $325,000 from disgruntled Hillary losers on a GoFundMe campaign to help him pay his legal bills.



eMacMan said:


> Sadly or typically Strzok, I believe is still ungainfully employed by the CIA


----------



## FeXL

Where's the hue & cry from the left?

Drugs Killed More Than 70,000 Americans in 2017



> More than 72,000 people died from drug overdoses between January 2017 and January 2018, according to new estimates from the Center for Disease Control.
> 
> That represents a 14 percent rise over 2016, despite a year of calls for action on the drug epidemic from national politicians and the media. *Drug deaths continue to eclipse every other cause of non-disease death in the United States, including car crashes, homicides, and suicides.* More people died from drug overdoses in 2017 than at any point in the preceding two decades.


_"If it saves just one life!"_


----------



## FeXL

Yet Juthdin welcomes them with open arms, hoping they'll peacefully integrate into society, vote Liberal & eat him last...

ISIS Member Who Applied For Refugee Status Has Been Arrested On Murder Charges In California



> A suspected Islamic State member wanted for murder in Iraq faces extradition after being arrested Wednesday by the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force in California, where he applied for refugee status.
> 
> Federal authorities say that Omar Ameen, 45, is wanted for the June 21, 2014, murder of an Iraqi police officer from the town of Rawah in the Anbar province.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk that blue wave some.

Better Luck Next Time



> Socialist star Ocasio-Cortez strikes out: All endorsed candidates lose Tuesday primaries


Related:

This Is Not Your Grandpa’s Democratic Party



> Will Minnesota’s Democrats vote to make a far-left, bigoted, Jew-hating socialist who has abused multiple women, by their accounts, the Democrats’ nominee for Attorney General? In all probability, yes.


Postscript: He got nominated. Nice.

Oh, _this_ is interesting!

Muslim candidate endorsed by Ocasio-Cortez married to two men, one of whom may be her brother



> Yesterday we informed you that Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez is now in the endorsing business. In particular, the Democratic Socialist is bullish on Ilhan Omar, a Somali immigrant running for a seat in Congress. Ocasio-Cortez calls her a “modern day hero.”
> 
> Apparently Omar isn’t so modern that she’s above tying the knot with a man reported to be a blood relative (which, _nota bene_, is illegal in the state of Minnesota).
> 
> Not to mention, Omar has not yet officially dissolved her marriage to “brother” Ahmed Nur Said Elmi but in the meantime married another man, which also makes her a bigamist.
> 
> The reason for the marriage to Elmi apparently is also believed to be to gain Elmi entry into the United States, which may amount to crime number 3.


Related:

Democratic Congressional Candidate from Minnesota Divorces Her Brother


----------



## FeXL

I bet those false teeth were clattering like those windup ones you used to get at a dime store. :lmao:

Pelosi Struggles with an Answer When Asked What Dems Stand for — Don’t Miss This



> Pelosi proceeded to muddle through a lackluster reply that seemed like more of the same old standard Democratic lines that lacked specifics and grasped at old liberal tropes.
> 
> Seemingly devoid of the energy and enthusiasm she would need to retain control in the House, she answered in a rote and almost halting fashion.
> Advertisement
> 
> “Democrats are for the people. Democrats are for the people,” Pelosi responded. “It means we are for the people having lower health care costs, reducing the costs of prescription drugs. Democrats are for bigger paychecks by building the infrastructure of America, creating good-paying jobs.”


I still prefer Churchill's assessment: “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Obama Foundation’s monumental rip-off



> The Obama Presidential Center planned for Chicago is nothing more than a personal monument to Barack Obama and a center for political indoctrination in his radical views. It serves no public purpose the way that a presidential library would. Obama’s presidential papers will not be housed there, and no scholars will be afforded the opportunity to explore the history of his presidency.
> 
> And, this is receiving vast public subsidies, despite assurances that it would be privately funded. Barack and Michelle Obama have been playing a major role in its design, in a fashion reminiscent of a dictator putting up monuments to himself in some third world country. As the revised design stands, it will look like a cenotaph bizarrely erected before the death and burial of its principal.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Actions —> Consequences.

Louisiana Denies Citibank, Bank of America $600 Million Over Gun Control Push



> Louisiana officials denied two of America's largest banks an opportunity to be involved in a project worth hundreds of millions of dollars on Thursday because of their decision to align with left-wing activists and the Democratic party in pushing for gun control.
> 
> "The State Bond Commission refused to allow Citigroup and Bank of America to work as underwriters on the interstate highway financing deal," The Virginia Pilot reported.


More:



> *"You're in the banking business," Republican Rep. Blake Miguez told the banks. "Why have you all decided to enter the policymaking business?"*


Bold mine.

Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

Longish, excellent read.

Does Diversity Really Unite Us? Citizenship and Immigration



> Our progressive politicians and opinion leaders proclaim their commitment to diversity almost daily, chanting the same refrain: “Diversity is our strength.” This is the gospel according to political correctness. *But how does diversity strengthen us? Is it a force for unity and cohesiveness? Or is it a source of division and contention? Does it promote the common good and the friendship that rests at the heart of citizenship? Or does it promote racial and ethnic division and something resembling the tribalism that prevents most of the world from making constitutional government a success?* When is the last time we heard anyone in Washington talk about the common good? We are used to hearing talk about the various stakeholders and group interests, but not much about what the nation has in common.
> 
> This should not be surprising. *Greater diversity means inevitably that we have less in common, and the more we encourage diversity the less we honor the common good. Any honest and clear-sighted observer should be able to see that diversity is a solvent that dissolves the unity and cohesiveness of a nation*—and we should not be deceived into believing that its proponents do not understand the full impact of their advocacy!
> 
> *Diversity, of course, marches under the banner of tolerance, but is a bastion of intolerance. It enforces its ideological liberalism with an iron fist that is driven by political correctness, the most ingenious (and insidious) device for suppressing freedom of speech and political dissent ever invented.*


Yeah, bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

Diversity is not a virtue. It just describes an arrangement of people, without knowing whether that diversity will be a benefit or not.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Diversity is not a virtue. It just describes an arrangement of people, without knowing whether that diversity will be a benefit or not.




Absolutely. Much better if everyone is, oh, I don't know, say all-white.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Say a company owned by a black person employs only black people. What would be the value added to that company if it hired a white person? 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely. Much better if everyone is, oh, I don't know, say all-white.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Once again your ignorance of the issue is paraded on full display.

Thank you for reaffirming that which many of us already knew.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Absolutely. Much better if everyone is, oh, I don't know, say all-white.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie's already slunk away, tail between legs. I declare, I have never encountered anyone else who has fallen on the sword of so many of his own failed witty rejoinders. 



FeXL said:


> Once again your ignorance of the issue is paraded on full display.
> 
> Thank you for reaffirming that which many of us already knew.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Say a company owned by a black person employs only black people. What would be the value added to that company if it hired a white person?




Diversity. Perhaps an expanded perspective. It is only you that claims diversity is not valuable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Once again your ignorance of the issue is paraded on full display.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for reaffirming that which many of us already knew.



That you write with your head up your butt? Sure, happy to oblige.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie's already slunk away, tail between legs. I declare, I have never encountered anyone else who has fallen on the sword of so many of his own failed witty rejoinders.



You, sir, are an idiot. Just because a person has a life outside of a computer forum does not mean they have “slunk away.” There’s a big world out there beyond the forum MF—you should try to experience it sometime.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Diversity. Perhaps an expanded perspective. It is only you that claims diversity is not valuable.


If you needed another viewpoint to make your business more successful, you would need to look for people with a different perspective, not different skin colour.


----------



## SINC

Diversity is the single most divisive thing ever done in Canada. It has and will continue to divide society and inflame many more issues as it continues to be practiced.


----------



## Macfury

I'm an "idiot" now am I? Guess your "civil" nature is taking another of its frequent holidays.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You, sir, are an idiot. Just because a person has a life outside of a computer forum does not mean they have “slunk away.” There’s a big world out there beyond the forum MF—you should try to experience it sometime.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm an "idiot" now am I? Guess your "civil" nature is taking another of its frequent holidays.




I call ‘em as I sees ‘em. You stopped acting with civility long ago, so now you get a taste of your own medicine. Believe me, idiot is probably the least nasty term I could use.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Diversity is the single most divisive thing ever done in Canada. It has and will continue to divide society and inflame many more issues as it continues to be practiced.




Would you prefer we were all the same shade of beige, Don? What do you think diversity means, exactly?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you needed another viewpoint to make your business more successful, you would need to look for people with a different perspective, not different skin colour.




Uhhh....there are many kinds of diversity, genius. Skin colour is one of them.


----------



## Macfury

So skin colour is only one of the "diversities" that would benefit a company then. A company that hires five black and five white people should then be more successful than a company hiring 10 black people. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uhhh....there are many kinds of diversity, genius. Skin colour is one of them.


----------



## Macfury

I personally don't care what you call me. It's just your blatant hypocrisy that fascinates me. Preaching "civil" then firing at will whenever you get flustered.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I call ‘em as I sees ‘em. You stopped acting with civility long ago, so now you get a taste of your own medicine. Believe me, idiot is probably the least nasty term I could use.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I personally don't care what you call me. It's just your blatant hypocrisy that fascinates me. Preaching "civil" then firing at will whenever you get flustered.




There’s no moderators. What do you care? Hell, you even wanted to nominate FeXL for moderator! The most vile and bigoted poster here! That’s a laugh.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So skin colour is only one of the "diversities" that would benefit a company then. A company that hires five black and five white people should then be more successful than a company hiring 10 black people.



You twist other’s words. Bad habit of yours.


----------



## Macfury

No twisting of words. This would be the direct result of acting on your theory of diversity--part of which states that skin colour is one component of diversity. 

What additional success should the company expect if it hires five black and five white workers instead of 10 black workers?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You twist other’s words. Bad habit of yours.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL, like me, would never serve in such a position. We're too principled to want to lord it over others.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There’s no moderators. What do you care? Hell, you even wanted to nominate FeXL for moderator! The most vile and bigoted poster here! That’s a laugh.


----------



## FeXL

If that's the worst condemnation you can muster against someone who regularly hands Progs their butts in even arguments on these boards, I'll take that as a high praise, Freddie. Any day of the week & twice on Sundays.

What's _truly_ vile on these boards is the wilful ignorance & hypocrisy of you Progs. There outta be a law against that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The most vile and bigoted poster here!


----------



## FeXL

Ouch!

That's it. Meet me in the sandbox at noon, you big meany!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> That you write with your head up your butt? Sure, happy to oblige.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No twisting of words. This would be the direct result of acting on your theory of diversity--part of which states that skin colour is one component of diversity.
> 
> 
> 
> What additional success should the company expect if it hires five black and five white workers instead of 10 black workers?



You constantly twist words. That’s your trademark. Nonetheless, I shall attempt to answer your question by asking one of my own: have you ever worked for an organization that was homogenous racially versus one that was racially mixed? Did you notice any differences? 

BTW, there’s no such thing as “black people” or “white people” (except mimes). We’re all somewhere between pinky-beige and brown.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> That's it. Meet me in the sandbox at noon, you big meany!
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



I actually smiled at that response, believe it or not. One point for FeXL!


----------



## FeXL

What do you think diversity means, Freddie?

Different coloured skin?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What do you think diversity means, exactly?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> FeXL, like me, would never serve in such a position. We're too principled to want to lord it over others.



You do like to stick your nose into others’ business though. Constantly. Might make you well-suited for the job.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What do you think diversity means, Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> Different coloured skin?



Nope, but that’s one facet. It could mean a thousand different things: diversity of political views, diversity of religious background, diversity of food preferences, diversity of mechanical aptitude, diversity of hair colour, etc. You get the idea. I hope.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, I know people who have very black skin. Two of my best friends from university. Habte was from Afghanistan and Denise was from England. No brown tones except on the inside of their hands and the bottoms of their feet. Quite black.



Freddie_Biff said:


> BTW, there’s no such thing as “black people” or “white people” (except mimes). We’re all somewhere between pinky-beige and brown.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Oh, I know people who have very black skin. Two of my best friends from university. Habte was from Afghanistan and Denise was from England. No brown tones except on the inside of their hands and the bottoms of their feet. Quite black.




Well fair enough. There’s always an exception. The blackest-skinned people I have ever met were still more of a very dark brown hue.


----------



## Macfury

No I haven't. They seemed to hired on skillset, not diversity.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You constantly twist words. That’s your trademark. Nonetheless, I shall attempt to answer your question by asking one of my own: have you ever worked for an organization that was homogenous racially versus one that was racially mixed? Did you notice any differences?
> 
> BTW, there’s no such thing as “black people” or “white people” (except mimes). We’re all somewhere between pinky-beige and brown.


----------



## FeXL

So, tell me (bearing in mind the pro-diversity crowd's trite mantra, "Diversity is our strength")...

Considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does different coloured skin & different coloured hair bring to Canada?

Again, considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does a different political view & a different religious background bring to Canada?

A third time: considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does a different food preference & a different mechanical aptitude bring to Canada?

How do any of these things you've noted, _prima facie_, make Canada a stronger nation?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope, but that’s one facet. It could mean a thousand different things: diversity of political views, diversity of religious background, diversity of food preferences, diversity of mechanical aptitude, diversity of hair colour, etc. You get the idea. I hope.


----------



## FeXL

I have another question.

Which organization, business, volunteer group, whatever, would be the most successful:

1) The one that hires based on knowledge & skill set, or
2) The one that hires the most diversity? (political views, religious backgrounds, food preferences, mechanical aptitude, hair colour, a thousand other things...)



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nonetheless, I shall attempt to answer your question by asking one of my own: have you ever worked for an organization that was homogenous racially versus one that was racially mixed?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No I haven't. They seemed to hired on skillset, not diversity.




And you’ve never discovered that, say, a person’s different cultural background might bring something interesting to the job?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, tell me (bearing in mind the pro-diversity crowd's trite mantra, "Diversity is our strength")...
> 
> 
> 
> Considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does different coloured skin & different coloured hair bring to Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does a different political view & a different religious background bring to Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> A third time: considering no other factors, _prima facie_, precisely what "added value", what "strength", does a different food preference & a different mechanical aptitude bring to Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> How do any of these things you've noted, _prima facie_, make Canada a stronger nation?



Let me reverse the question and ask you: considering no other factors, prima facie, precisely what “added value”, what “strength” does NOT having diversity bring to Canada?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I have another question.
> 
> 
> 
> Which organization, business, volunteer group, whatever, would be the most successful:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) The one that hires based on knowledge & skill set, or
> 
> 2) The one that hires the most diversity? (political views, religious backgrounds, food preferences, mechanical aptitude, hair colour, a thousand other things...)



I don’t know. Why must it be either/or? What if the desirable attributes like knowledge and skill set are mixed up among a bunch of people with diverse backgrounds, like skin colour, religious background, etc.? My experience is that hiring the best person for the job USUALLY means hiring people with diverse backgrounds. Why is diversity such a dirty word for you is a better question.


----------



## Macfury

QUOTE=Freddie_Biff;2663628]I don’t know. Why must it be either/or? What if the desirable attributes like knowledge and skill set are mixed up among a bunch of people with diverse backgrounds, like skin colour, religious background, etc.? [/QUOTE]

Then you would be hiring for skillset, not diversity.



Freddie_Biff said:


> My experience is that hiring the best person for the job USUALLY means hiring people with diverse backgrounds.


So when hiring people according to the skillsets you need, some of them wind up being diverse. So why try to plump up diversity as something special? That's thinking ass-backwards. It's all in the skillset!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is diversity such a dirty word for you is a better question.


It's neutral. It holds no value in and of itself.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t know. Why must it be either/or? What if the desirable attributes like knowledge and skill set are mixed up among a bunch of people with diverse backgrounds, like skin colour, religious background, etc.? My experience is that hiring the best person for the job USUALLY means hiring people with diverse backgrounds. Why is diversity such a dirty word for you is a better question.


Diversity has no place in equality. Hire the right person or the job period. If you hire to have a certain quota of people of different gender, race and sexual identify instead of getting the best person for the job you do not have equality you have discrimination. Hiring the best person means not looking at gender, race and sexual identity. That is what makes a business the best, getting the best person despite that. Now if the best person for your company is a mix of cultures then great, more power to you, if not and it is about skill set then great on that too and hire based on that no matter if it means your company is all white, black, gay or whatever. Trying to force this does more harm then good in my opinion as you are looking beyond skill set.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Diversity has no place in equality. Hire the right person or the job period. If you hire to have a certain quota of people of different gender, race and sexual identify instead of getting the best person for the job you do not have equality you have discrimination. Hiring the best person means not looking at gender, race and sexual identity. That is what makes a business the best, getting the best person despite that. Now if the best person for your company is a mix of cultures then great, more power to you, if not and it is about skill set then great on that too and hire based on that no matter if it means your company is all white, black, gay or whatever. Trying to force this does more harm then good in my opinion as you are looking beyond skill set.



Who said anything about quotas? One can value diversity without having to have quotas on each subtype.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Speaking of diversity....


----------



## Macfury

How would you know you were "diverse enough" if you were not counting?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said anything about quotas? One can value diversity without having to have quotas on each subtype.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How would you know you were "diverse enough" if you were not counting?



Who said anything about being “diverse enough”? Honestly, you’re just pulling arguments out of your arse at this point. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY, MACFURY?


----------



## Macfury

You made statement celebrating the virtue of diversity. You haven't managed to come up with any reason why people should value it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said anything about being “diverse enough”? Honestly, you’re just pulling arguments out of your arse at this point. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY, MACFURY?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You made statement celebrating the virtue of diversity. You haven't managed to come up with any reason why people should value it.




And you haven't come up with a single reason why people shouldn't value it. We've both agreed that a skill set should be valued, but that does not negate diversity. In fact, one might have a diversity of skill sets. That could be useful.


----------



## Macfury

Diversity of skill sets isn't even useful. Only a careful matching of skills to appropriate jobs that may or may not be diverse.

If my city needs to build a bridge, I want the firm that values skills and competence to build it--not the one that values diversity.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you haven't come up with a single reason why people shouldn't value it. We've both agreed that a skill set should be valued, but that does not negate diversity. In fact, one might have a diversity of skill sets. That could be useful.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Diversity of skill sets isn't even useful. Only a careful matching of skills to appropriate jobs that may or may not be diverse.
> 
> 
> 
> If my city needs to build a bridge, I want the firm that values skills and competence to build it--not the one that values diversity.




I think you’re just being stubborn at this point. Sometimes a jack of all trades IS preferable to a specialist that will charge you an arm and a leg. Other times a specialist is what is required. You’ve just got a hardon about the word diversity for some reason. Got you. Point made.


----------



## Macfury

I have no problem with the word. I have a problem with the word being used to denote an intrinsic value. "I have a diverse set of tires installed on my car," should never be a phrase that inspires anyone with confidence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I have no problem with the word. I have a problem with the word being used to denote an intrinsic value. "I have a diverse set of tires installed on my car," should never be a phrase that inspires anyone with confidence.




Of course not. Tires should be matched. However, diversity might be valued when you go to the food court at the local mall. If all twenty vendors sold nothing but soup and sandwiches, that’s not a recipe for success. If live music at the local bar consisted only of 12 bar blues played in the same key all night long, that’s going to make for a pretty unsatisfactory user experience. If all your electronic products have to have a little Apple emblem on them—well, wait a minute, I guess there are times when a lack of diversity can be good. LOL


----------



## Macfury

Good one!


----------



## FeXL

I've worked with well over a thousand different people over the years, of all colours, religions, political views, food preferences, hair colour, mechanical aptitude & cultural backgrounds.

However interesting those traits may or may not have all been, none, zero, were hired because of any of them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you’ve never discovered that, say, a person’s different cultural background might bring something interesting to the job?


----------



## FeXL

Sure.

You first.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Let me reverse the question and ask you: considering no other factors, prima facie, precisely what “added value”, what “strength” does NOT having diversity bring to Canada?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I've worked with well over a thousand different people over the years, of all colours, religions, political views, food preferences, hair colour, mechanical aptitude & cultural backgrounds.
> 
> 
> 
> However interesting those traits may or may not have all been, none, zero, were hired because of any of them.




As have I. Diversity may not have got them hired in the first place, but, damn, it made them interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> 
> You first.



Being as Canada is a country of immigrants, excepting First Nations, diversity is what makes our country interesting, in my view. It would be pretty boring if we all had exactly the same ancestry and cultural traditions. As I said earlier, the food court would be a pretty dull place if all twenty vendors sold soup and sandwiches. What kind of answer are you looking for exactly?


----------



## FeXL

Clearly, it would be the first.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t know.


Do you want your organization, business, volunteer group, whatever to be successful or not?

Sure, there's a chance (a very slim one, mind you) you may put together a winning team purely based on diverse choices. However, most people put together these sorts of things in the hopes for higher chances of succeeding.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why must it be either/or?


Then, as MF has noted, you are in fact hiring for skill set.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What if the desirable attributes like knowledge and skill set are mixed up among a bunch of people with diverse backgrounds, like skin colour, religious background, etc.?


Right. That's effect, not cause.

Randomly pick 200 people off the street, throw them into a room, interview them all for say, a dozen job positions, pick the 12 that will make the best team _based on skill set_ and you will inadvertently have a diverse group.



Freddie_Biff said:


> My experience is that hiring the best person for the job USUALLY means hiring people with diverse backgrounds.


It's not. Unless it's used _purely for the sake of diversity_.

Then it's a poor choice.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is diversity such a dirty word for you is a better question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Clearly, it would be the first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want your organization, business, volunteer group, whatever to be successful or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, there's a chance (a very slim one, mind you) you may put together a winning team purely based on diverse choices. However, most people put together these sorts of things in the hopes for higher chances of succeeding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, as MF has noted, you are in fact hiring for skill set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. That's effect, not cause.
> 
> 
> 
> Randomly pick 200 people off the street, throw them into a room, interview them all for say, a dozen job positions, pick the 12 that will make the best team _based on skill set_ and you will inadvertently have a diverse group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not. Unless it's used _purely for the sake of diversity_.
> 
> 
> 
> Then it's a poor choice.




I don’t know what you’re going on about. Please tell me where you believe I’ve stated that diversity is the only thing that matters when running a business or any organization. You’re starting to hallucinate my past responses.


----------



## FeXL

I think wonderings is referring to the hiring practices of provincial & federal gov'ts. Many of their job listings will ask specifically for minority, or female, or First Immigrants, or handicapped, or whatever, status to be even considered for the job.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Who said anything about quotas?


Precisely.



Freddie_Biff said:


> One can value diversity without having to have quotas on each subtype.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I think wonderings is referring to the hiring practices of provincial & federal gov'ts. Many of their job listings will ask specifically for minority, or female, or First Immigrants, or handicapped, or whatever, status to be even considered for the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.



I don’t recall ever saying for or against that idea. Especially not here in the American Thread. Perhaps someone is in a bit of a punchy mood today? I mean, I like diversity, all things being equal, but if I’m running a business I’m going to hire the best candidate for the job, regardless what political, religious, ethnic background or whatever they happen to be. 

Having said that, I believe there are a number of people who would NOT hire someone simply because of their ethnicity, gender or what have you. All things being equal. 

Your turn. The prima facie thing and Canada.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Famous last words.


----------



## SINC

Presidential hat.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Presidential hat.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey! Her & Juthdin both!

Chelsea Handler defends Al Franken: Groping 'not sexual assault'



> Comedian and liberal activist Chelsea Handler came to the defense of disgraced former Sen. Al Franken on Sunday, arguing that groping does not constitute sexual assault.
> 
> In defending Mr. Franken against numerous allegations of sexual misconduct, Ms. Handler admitted during an interview with Buzzfeed News that she’s grabbed people’s genitals “many times” in photographs before and didn’t think that should be considered sexual assault.


Well, in that case, I can hardly wait to meet Ms. Handler! beejacon

'Sides, wasn't she one of the ones complaining about Trump "grabbing pussy"? 

Once again, if it wasn't for double standards, the Progs wouldn't have any standards at all.


----------



## FeXL

‘Stupidest Bullsh*t’: Austin Texas Residents and Tourists Oppose Renaming City



> Residents and tourists in Austin told PJM that they oppose the idea of renaming the state capital due to Stephen F. Austin’s support for slavery.


Fine. However, if that's the standard they're measuring with, then the Democratic Party itself needs to be dissolved, as well... :clap:


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> ‘Stupidest Bullsh*t’: Austin Texas Residents and Tourists Oppose Renaming City
> 
> Fine. However, if that's the standard they're measuring with, then the Democratic Party itself needs to be dissolved, as well... :clap:


Let me repeat:

_I see that you are still unable to comprehend the evolution of U.S. political parties - or you flat-out refuse to recognize historical reality because these labels of 'Democrat' and 'Republican' serve your current ideological interests.

Maybe do some research on William Jennings Bryan, and the policy shifts that occurred with both US federal parties between the 1860s and mid-1930s. 

Or, you know, continue to demonstrate your profound ignorance on the topic._​


----------



## FeXL

Yet you're the first one to trot out Catholic Church history, despite the fact that they were committed hundreds of years before even the Democrats were created.

Curious, idn't it?

Once again, your hypocrisy is thrown into sharp relief. You can't have it both ways, CM. Either you're a product of your past or you're not.

Which is it?



CubaMark said:


> Blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

No acceptance of New Testament Bible vs. Old either--no dividing line for ol' CM!

Joseph Stalin was a communist--but don't mix him up with the good communists.



FeXL said:


> Yet you're the first one to trot out Catholic Church history, despite the fact that they were committed hundreds of years before even the Democrats were created.
> 
> Curious, idn't it?
> 
> Once again, your hypocrisy is thrown into sharp relief. You can't have it both ways, CM. Either you're a product of your past or you're not.
> 
> Which is it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

To do that joke right, there should have been at least two people left. As presented, Pence is the winner.



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> No acceptance of New Testament Bible vs. Old either--no dividing line for ol' CM!


You'd have thought that somewhere en route to his Piled higher & Deeper he would have taken a logic class or a philosophy of debate or some such...


----------



## FeXL

An American Politics Ace of Spades link dump. Don't have time to excerpt/comment on each one.

Weekly Standard ( 🚢 ) Shocked by Notion of Non-Disclosure Agreements, Despite Routinely Demanding Them from Employees

Judge Ellis in Manafort Case Denies Dox-Factory CNN's Demand for Juror Information; Says He Himself Has Been Threatened, and The Jurors Would Be As Well

Judge Tells the FBI That It Will No Longer Be Permitted to Hide Behind "We Can Neither Confirm Nor Deny" Answers, But Must Actually Answer Questions About How It Handled the Alleged Steele Dossier

Julie Kelly: Why Was the Weekly Standard Pushing Bullet-Points from the Steele Dossier Two Days Before Operation Crossfire Hurricane Began?

Colorado Officials Are Once Again Vindictively Prosecuting Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ignoring Supreme Court Decision 

Whatever You Do, Google's Following You

Hawaiian Judge (In New Mexico): I've Got a Great Idea. Let's Release the Jihadis Running the Terrorism Summer Camp from Jail and Accept Their Promises They'll Show Up for Trial.

CNN and Other Media Organizations Plead to Manafort Judge: Please Give Us the Jurors' Names So That We Can Dox Them Into Voting the Way We Demand

Peter Strzok's GoFundMe Page Claims a Very Influential Testimonial From a Highly Respected Conservative Magazine -- The Weekly Standard, of Course

Socialist, Authoritarian Mayor Bill DiBlasio's Security Detail Grabs and Carries Away Reporter Who Dared To Ask a Question

Good News: Hillary Clinton Will Bring Her Famous "Hillary Clinton Campaign Magic" to Democrat Congressional Hopefuls

Act of Love: Elizabeth Warren Declares That Mollie Tibbets' Parents Should Focus on "Real Problems," Like Illegal Aliens Being Separated from Their (?) Kids

Paul Sperry: FBI "Investigation" Into Weiner Laptop Was a Gigantic Fraud Upon the Public;
FBI Only Looked at 3000 Emails, and Only Glanced At Those in a 12 Hour Window; Never Conducted _Mandatory_ Security Assessment

Democrats: Trump Must Withdraw Kavanaugh Appointment Because He's Under Investigation on Suspicion of... Something.

Lanny Davis Contradicts #FakeNews CNN: No, Michael Cohen Doesn't Have Information About Whether Trump Knew About the Trump Tower Meeting With the Fusion GPS Client Natalia Veselnitskya


----------



## FeXL

Wow, indeed. Perhaps there is a modicum of hope for some of them after all...

WOW: Survey Finds Among White Millenial Men, 23% Move From Dems To GOP In Last Two Years



> The Guardian reports that a Reuters/Ipsos mega poll of 16,000 respondents found that in the last two years, support for Democrats among millenials plunged from 55% to 46% while their support for Republicans has only dropped from 28% to 27%.
> 
> Even worse for Democrats, in the last two years, support from white millennial men has gone from the Democrats leading Republicans by 12% to the Republicans leading by 11%, a shocking 23% shift.


----------



## FeXL

How Much Does Socialism Cost?

Let's skip right to the punchline:



> What exactly is the cost of socialism? Simple. The American taxpayer will be mandated by law to return almost half of his annual salary to the government, in exchange for free stuff. That's the socialist economic system.


Oh, you mean like Canadians already do?


----------



## FeXL

Further on American multikulturalism...

Feminist-Celebrated Imam’s Son Ran Terrorist Camp For School Shooters



> Already missing from the news cycle is the story of Muslim leader Siraj Wahhaj, who alerted authorities to the squalid conditions in New Mexico in which his son, two daughters, another man and woman, and 11 children were living.
> 
> Authorities arrived at the compound to some of the most horrifying conditions they had ever seen, and prosecutors identified the makeshift home as a training ground for militant children, including in carrying out school shootings. The imam’s son had been wanted for kidnapping his own four-year-old child, who had severe disabilities. The body of a young child was recovered from the site, but authorities have yet to verify its identity.


More:



> Wahhaj is also a mentor to Linda Sarsour, an American-born activist of Palestinian heritage who is on the board of the anti-Trump Women’s March. Also a Brooklyn native, *she is known for her staunch support of the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement, and her outspoken desire for Sharia law in the United States.*
> 
> ...
> 
> *Sarsour once touted Saddam Hussein as a “hero” to Palestinians.* She and the Women’s March praised Assata Shakur, who was convicted of murdering a police officer in 1977, as a hero. Her blatant anti-Semitic values are hidden in plain sight behind the smoke screen of intersectional feminism. She once said “Nothing is creepier than Zionism,” and her Twitter account profile describes her as “Islamophobia’s Worst Nightmare.” This is her primary raison d’être.


Further:



> The dangerous connections that the leaders of this influential progressive group have are incredibly alarming, and hardly ever in the news long enough for people to notice. *A camp within the United States where children were being trained to shoot up schools in terrorist attacks should be in the news every day, until every connection is explored and scrutinized.*


All bold mine.

Yet, nothing.


----------



## FeXL

Brilliant.

Massachusetts Republican beats trans driver’s license bill by forcing votes on all 73 genders



> In a column for the Boston Globe, New England radio host Howie Carr details how Republican Rep. Jim Lyons adopted a unique strategy for defeating the bill: forcing it to live up to its supporters’ own logic.
> 
> “Since all Democrats must admit that the number of genders is endless, how dare the commonwealth lump all the new genders together as ‘Gender X’?” Carr writes, summarizing Lyons’ facetious reasoning. “Every gender, he declared, must be listed on Massachusetts driver’s licenses! That was Lyons’ non-negotiable demand. *No justice, no peace.*”


M'bold.

More:



> Knowing that his liberal colleagues couldn’t rule any of the genders out of order without undermining the logic of transgender ideology, Lyons introduced each as a separate amendment to the bill the evening of July 31, each requiring 10 minutes of debate and three minutes to vote on.
> 
> “Number 6 added as a gender ‘cis.’ Amendment 9 — cis female, 13 — cis woman, 14 — cisgender female, 18 — cisgender woman,” Carr details. “Amendment 21 — gender fluid, 22 gender non-conforming, 23 gender questioning, 25 gender variant, 26 genderqueer.”
> 
> Six hours in, Lyons had only filed 35 of the amendments, at which point House leadership realized he was running out the clock and there wasn’t enough time before the midnight deadline to pass both the bill and the other legislation on the docket. At 10:45 p.m., they withdrew the bill.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

The lady who will never be president?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The lady who will never be president?




Yup. Also the one whose lived many more years at the White House than Trump has, and the one who won’t be impeached and find half the people he hired indicted or in jail. That’s quite the “winner” you support.


----------



## Macfury

Yup.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump spread a racially divisive theory on South African land violence this week. Here's what he got wrong*

"I thought, 'Oh my God,'" said du Toit, who researches poverty and inequality in South Africa. 

"When you get that feeling when you're going to have to start explaining things to Americans again."
(CBC)​
:lmao:​


----------



## Dr.G.

" Sen. John McCain, the 2008 GOP presidential nominee who was driven by a code of honor that defined and haunted him, dies at 81

McCain endured more than five years of imprisonment and torture by the North Vietnamese as a young Navy pilot. He went on to battle foes — on the left and the right — in the marble corridors of Washington.

A Republican who seemed his truest self when outraged, he reveled in opposing orthodoxy and spent decades representing Arizona in the Senate. He twice ran unsuccessfully for president. McCain was diagnosed with a brain tumor in July 2017."

So sad. He was a true patriot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> " Sen. John McCain, the 2008 GOP presidential nominee who was driven by a code of honor that defined and haunted him, dies at 81
> 
> 
> 
> McCain endured more than five years of imprisonment and torture by the North Vietnamese as a young Navy pilot. He went on to battle foes — on the left and the right — in the marble corridors of Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> A Republican who seemed his truest self when outraged, he reveled in opposing orthodoxy and spent decades representing Arizona in the Senate. He twice ran unsuccessfully for president. McCain was diagnosed with a brain tumor in July 2017."
> 
> 
> 
> So sad. He was a true patriot.




A real hero. RIP Senator McCain.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> A real hero. RIP Senator McCain.


So true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## 18m2

RIP Senator McCain.

Didn't he choose Sarah Palin as a running mate? 

Not the best choice.


----------



## SINC

18m2 said:


> RIP Senator McCain.
> 
> Didn't he choose Sarah Palin as a running mate?
> 
> Not the best choice.


I seem to recall that he didn't choose Palin, the convention that year did it for him. McCain had favoured three other people. See details at the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_presidential_candidacy_of_Sarah_Palin


----------



## Macfury

His top choice, Joe Lieberman, would not have won him the election. McCain's campaign was notably lacklustre. I got a strong impression he didn't really want to beat Obama. Despite all of that, his numbers were remarkably good until bad economic news struck late in the campaign.



SINC said:


> I seem to recall that he didn't choose Palin, the convention that year did it for him. McCain had favoured three other people. See details at the link:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_presidential_candidacy_of_Sarah_Palin


----------



## CubaMark

*And y'all jump on me for lack of respect... I'm obviously no fan of the guy, but even I would adhere to some kind of protocol here.... That Trump guy holds a grudge, eh?*

*Trump ignores questions about John McCain as White House flag returns to full-staff*










The White House flag is no longer flying at half-staff in honor of the late Sen. John McCain, while President Donald Trump appeared to ignore questions about the Arizona senator in the Oval Office Monday morning.

When ABC News chief White House correspondent Jonathan Karl asked the president for "any thoughts on the legacy of John McCain," Trump heard the question but ignored him several times during a Mexico trade announcement in front of reporters, according to Karl.

* * *​
White House officials had returned the U.S. flag to full-staff around midnight, ABC News senior White House correspondent Cecilia Vega told “Good Morning America” host George Stephanopoulos Monday.

The White House flag could then be seen for some time flying at full-staff while the banners surrounding the Washington Monument were at half-staff.

The White House flag-lowering that lasted less than 48 hours breaks with precedent that it ramains lowered until burial.

The federal code states that the flag shall be lowered on the day of death and the following day for a sitting member of Congress. Flying it at half-staff for an extended period of time is at the discretion of the president.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

(ABC News)​


----------



## Macfury

Trump has ordered the flag to be lowered until burial.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *And y'all jump on me for lack of respect... I'm obviously no fan of the guy, but even I would adhere to some kind of protocol here.... That Trump guy holds a grudge, eh?*
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump ignores questions about John McCain as White House flag returns to full-staff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The White House flag is no longer flying at half-staff in honor of the late Sen. John McCain, while President Donald Trump appeared to ignore questions about the Arizona senator in the Oval Office Monday morning.
> 
> 
> 
> When ABC News chief White House correspondent Jonathan Karl asked the president for "any thoughts on the legacy of John McCain," Trump heard the question but ignored him several times during a Mexico trade announcement in front of reporters, according to Karl.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> White House officials had returned the U.S. flag to full-staff around midnight, ABC News senior White House correspondent Cecilia Vega told “Good Morning America” host George Stephanopoulos Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> The White House flag could then be seen for some time flying at full-staff while the banners surrounding the Washington Monument were at half-staff.
> 
> 
> 
> The White House flag-lowering that lasted less than 48 hours breaks with precedent that it ramains lowered until burial.
> 
> 
> 
> The federal code states that the flag shall be lowered on the day of death and the following day for a sitting member of Congress. Flying it at half-staff for an extended period of time is at the discretion of the president.
> 
> 
> 
> The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> 
> 
> (ABC News)​



45 is an ass and a dotard.


----------



## Macfury

Duh, late to the game Big Moose?



Freddie_Biff said:


> 45 is an ass and a dotard.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Duh, late to the game Big Moose?




Duh, speak English? I know he reneged (probably after being forceably told that this looks really bad) but he’s still an ass and a dotard. And don’t forget ****gibbon.


----------



## Macfury

...and President of the United States!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Duh, speak English? I know he reneged (probably after being forceably told that this looks really bad) but he’s still an ass and a dotard. And don’t forget ****gibbon.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> ...and President of the United States!



Barely. There is much disrespect for him around the world and in his own country. He thought he had a 54% approval rating when it was actually 54% disapproval. He's an idiot.


----------



## smashedbanana

CubaMark said:


> *And y'all jump on me for lack of respect... I'm obviously no fan of the guy, but even I would adhere to some kind of protocol here.... That Trump guy holds a grudge, eh?*


We can't expect class from the Donald. He has none. 

I have to agree though it's weird that you choose a posting noting McCain's passing to criticize him. I mean he wasn't hitler. We don't have to qualify his mention with but he was... 

Donald has no class but we can have some. Start another thread if there is some pressing issue about the now deceased Senator McCain that you want to discuss.


----------



## Beej

smashedbanana said:


> Donald has no class but we can have some. Start another thread if there is some pressing issue about the now deceased Senator McCain that you want to discuss.


Good advice. It's also possible to rely on the existing and active American Politics thread or, and this is a lot to expect, wait a couple days then use the AP thread or start a new thread.


----------



## Macfury

I think you quoted the number wrong--guess it could happen to anyone.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Barely. There is much disrespect for him around the world and in his own country. He thought he had a 54% approval rating when it was actually 54% disapproval. He's an idiot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I don't recall anything like that. Did you find it on Breitbart, Freddie?

How will it affect that "settled science" of global warming for progressives?


----------



## FeXL

Like, say, the kind of protocol where you roast the guy in his RIP thread?

That's _some_ protocol you got there, CM...



CubaMark said:


> And y'all jump on me for lack of respect... I'm obviously no fan of the guy, but even I would adhere to some kind of protocol here....


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Like, say, the kind of protocol where you roast the guy in his RIP thread?
> 
> That's _some_ protocol you got there, CM...


Hey - I'm just a loony "Prog". It's not like I'm the President of a global superpower....


----------



## CubaMark

_...speaking of loonies...._

*Trump doesn’t seem to realize his new trade deal isn’t a trade deal*

To hear Donald Trump tell it, he and his team achieved a historic breakthrough on trade policy yesterday. I wish that were true, but it’s not.

_The U.S. and Mexico struck a trade deal designed to supplant the North American Free Trade Agreement, President Donald Trump said in the Oval Office Monday.

Trump and other administration officials hope that Canada, the third party to NAFTA, will sign on to the agreement, which still must be ratified by Congress. But Canada and the U.S. have been at loggerheads over trade policy, and negotiations among the three countries were paused so that the U.S. could talk directly with Mexico._​
Let’s back up to provide some context. For about a year, the Trump administration has engaged Canadian and Mexican officials in renegotiating the terms of the existing NAFTA agreement, which the president claims to hate, despite never fully explaining why. The months-long process has been a struggle, and by all accounts, the countries are not yet close to a trilateral deal.

Recently, however, Trump’s team has been working directly with Mexico on a provision related to auto manufacturing, and yesterday, the White House announced that those talks resulted in an agreement. That’s not nothing, and it may move the administration closer to its goal.

But it’s only a step. The Atlantic’s David Frum joked yesterday, *“Congratulations to the Trump administration on reaching a preliminary agreement in principle to begin negotiations with half of America’s NAFTA counterparties with a view to revising one section of the trade agreement!”*

The American president, however, desperate for a win and the completion of some kind of trade deal, made a series of claims that were largely incoherent.

At one point yesterday, for example, Trump said, “This is one of the largest trade deals ever made. Maybe the largest trade deal ever made.” That’s absurd. It’s not really a trade deal – Mexico still expects Canada’s involvement in a trilateral agreement – and even if it were, it wouldn’t be anywhere close to the largest in history.

The Trump administration isn’t even calling it a deal, choosing instead to describe it as a “preliminary agreement in principle.”
(MSNBC)​


----------



## Macfury

Even fake conservative and never-Trumper David Frum is on his ass. They really had to dig hard for quotes.


----------



## FeXL

Why, yes. Yes, you are.



CubaMark said:


> Hey - I'm just a loony "Prog".


No. No, you most certainly are not...



CubaMark said:


> It's not like I'm the President of a global superpower....


----------



## FeXL

Why does it have to be trilateral?

Do you think Mexico is actually going to walk away from a trade deal with the US if The Dope, his crack negotiating Purple Perogy and her Boy Band of idiots are unable to cobble something together that is even remotely palatable to Trump?

Not a chance.

Mexico will (rightfully) take America's money & run and leave Canuckistan shivering in the cold.



CubaMark said:


> ...speaking of loonies....


----------



## Macfury

You see FeXL, Trump didn't realize that the trade deal needed to be ratified by the government--he's just a big dope who cleaned Hillary's clock at the ballot box on half the campaign spending, understood the Electoral College and achieved most of his agenda while laughing at two years of relentless hounding from the deep state, the establishment, and the MSM.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You see FeXL, Trump didn't realize that the trade deal needed to be ratified by the government--he's just a big dope who cleaned Hillary's clock at the ballot box on half the campaign spending, understood the Electoral College and achieved most of his agenda while laughing at two years of relentless hounding from the deep state, the establishment, and the MSM.


It truly is amazing, idn't it...


----------



## FeXL

Chuck Ross: FBI Agent Told Congress That the Bureau Leaked Stories to the Press, and Would Then Use Press Write-Ups as "Independent" Sources to Justify FISA Warrants



> The most crucial part of being a True Conservative is having a childlike, cultish belief in the absolute infallibility of government agents.
> 
> I think I read that somewhere.
> 
> _An FBI special agent told Congress earlier in August that the bureau has used leaked news stories as justifications to obtain surveillance warrants against American citizens, a source familiar with the testimony tells The Daily Caller News Foundation.
> 
> *During a closed-door interview with the House Judiciary and House Oversight Committees on Friday, Special Agent Jonathan Moffa told congressional investigators that the FBI and Justice Department have leaked stories to the press and then used them to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).
> 
> "He more or less admitted that the FBI/DOJ have previously leaked info to the press and then used stories from the press as justifications for FISA warrants," a source who took part in Moffa's interview told TheDCNF.*_​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bill's Wife's home rolled server s'more.

SOURCES: China Hacked Hillary Clinton’s Private Email Server



> A Chinese-owned company operating in the Washington, D.C., area hacked Hillary Clinton’s private server throughout her term as secretary of state and *obtained nearly all her emails*, two sources briefed on the matter told The Daily Caller News Foundation.


Bold mine.

Hell's Bells! Hit 'em up with a FOI request so's we can read all of her recipes! :lmao:

More:



> The Chinese firm obtained Clinton’s emails in real time as she sent and received communications and documents through her personal server, according to the sources, who said the hacking was conducted as part of an intelligence operation.
> 
> The Chinese wrote code that was embedded in the server, which was kept in Clinton’s residence in upstate New York. The code generated an instant “courtesy copy” for nearly all of her emails and forwarded them to the Chinese company, according to the sources.


Nice...

Read further to see the deflection to TRUMP!!!!!!!


----------



## FeXL

Hey, America! How's that multikulturalism workin' out for ya?

CNN: New Mexico Jihadi Cultists Were Just Some Plucky Underdogs Tryin' to Live Off the Grid



> I seem to remember CNN having a different editorial slant on non-Muslims stocking up on arms and abusing children while tryin' to live off the grid.
> 
> *On Twitter, the cable news outlet tweeted out this headline with the accompanying article: "New Mexico family compound family struggled with life off the grid."
> 
> 
> Of course this tweet earned immediate backlash as it appears CNN wants us to feel sorry for child abusers who were training children to carry out school shootings, and were plotting to attack a hospital in Atlanta. But the article inside was even worse.*​


Related:

Only CNN could write a sympathetic human interest story about a bunch of terrorists training children to become school shooters.


----------



## FeXL

Just a short recap of recent US political history...

When science fiction ain't


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, there's a surprise...

Obama's CDC Director, Thomas Frieden, The Man Who Told Us Ebola Could Not Be Transmitted By Sneezing Even Though He Knew Damn Well It Could Be Transmitted By Sneezing, Arrested for Sexual Abuse, Forcible Touching and Harassment of a Woman



> From Yahoo: A lot of liberal harassers.
> 
> *Almost as if they feel they're of a #Protected class.*


M'bold.

Curious, idn't it...

Related:

Union President Accused of Sexual Misconduct



> An embattled union president has been accused of sexual misconduct in a lawsuit.
> 
> An official with Service Employees International Union-United Healthcare Workers West accused union president David Regan of sexual misconduct in a lawsuit.
> 
> Mindy Sturge, a former coordinator with SEIU-UHW, accuses Regan and the union of fostering "a discriminatory workplace" and of inappropriately touching and texting female workers. The misconduct, the suit says, was pervasive throughout the labor organization. Sturge said the union ignored allegations of harassment and tacitly accepted hostile conditions for female employees.
> 
> "This conduct was engaged in by senior SEIU-UHW managers and directors, including but expressly not limited to [director Marcus] Hatcher and Regan," the suit, which was obtained by Payday Report, says. The filing adds that the behavior was "unwelcome, regular, and pervasive."
> 
> "Despite reports of this behavior, SEIU-UHW took no action to discipline Hatcher or others who created a hostile work environment, nor did SEIU-UHW undertake an investigation of the workplace or of Hatcher's behavior until after Sturge had been assaulted by Hatcher," it says.


----------



## FeXL

Actions—>Consequences

Gun policy, Under Armour weakness hit Dick's Sporting sales



> Dick’s Sporting Goods (DKS.N) reported a bigger-than-expected drop in quarterly same-store sales on Wednesday and forecast further declines this year, hit by tighter gun controls and a drop in Under Armour sales.
> 
> Shares in the company fell as much as 10 percent after it posted a 1.9 percent drop in same-store sales, bigger than analysts’ average estimate of a 0.62 percent dip.
> 
> Dick’s was one of the first retailers to stop selling assault rifles and high-capacity magazines as well as bar the sale of guns to people under age 21 following a massacre at a Florida high school in February.
> 
> The company had predicted that its hunting guns business would be pressurized by the change in policy but said *the move should also attract more people to its stores.*


Yeah, not so much...


----------



## FeXL

Woohoo!!!

After just 18 months, Trump has “flipped” two circuits — the Sixth and Seventh — from liberal to conservative

Draining that swamp!

Now, about that 9th Circus...


----------



## eMacMan

https://gazette.com/news/from-new-m...cle_ae5e35ec-dfb4-50bc-b80c-c070fb1386ac.html

Seems to me the would be terrorism charges are very iffy. Based mainly on the testimony of kids, who by all accounts were abused and are at an age where it is extremely easy for an overly aggressive prosecutor to put words in their mouths. As to a vague hand written document if I were on a jury I would give it little or no weight.

There is sufficient evidence here to convict the dead boys father. Do so and don't let him skate by confusing the issue with frivolous charges. 

OTOH The nearest privatized prison is no doubt screaming for more sacrificial goats, and probably has a binding contract with the state of New Mexico to provide the same.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> It truly is amazing, idn't it...


Canada has until Friday to negotiate a new deal with Trump. Hope this sitting on the sidelines helped build up mojo--the negotiating team will need it now.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Canada has until Friday to negotiate a new deal with Trump. Hope this sitting on the sidelines helped build up mojo--the negotiating team will need it now.


Watch Trudeau do a 180 and drop the dairy supply management system like a hot potato to save the auto sector tariff. Many more votes in the Ontario auto sector than Quebec dairy farms.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Watch Trudeau do a 180 and drop the dairy supply management system like a hot potato to save the auto sector tariff. Many more votes in the Ontario auto sector than Quebec dairy farms.


Hmmm... Think he'll burn Kaybeck like that? Many of them are already pissed about all the illegal aliens being escorted across the US border by the Queen's Horsemen and then being stuck footing the bill.

This is merely another perfect storm The Dope & Crew have created. 

Another "Pass the Popcorn" moment brought to you by the Federal Liberal Party...


----------



## FeXL

*Becauth ith's 2015!*

Let's talk international trade deals s'more!

NAFTA not likely to be a happy ending for Canada



> If the mood prevailing in the Canadian camp in Washington could be summed up in a sentence, it would be: if you’re not confused, you’re misinformed.
> 
> Many of the big hitters in the Prime Minister’s Office were in the U.S. capital to join Chrystia Freeland, the global affairs minister, and Steve Verheul, Canada’s chief negotiator, to try to finalize a modernized NAFTA agreement, after the U.S. and Mexico appeared to have reached a bilateral deal.


Love the cartoon in the above link.

Related:

I wonder how the Liberals will blame the NAFTA mess on Harper



> Only Canada could turn a dispute over chickens and cheese into a national crisis. What’s most bizarre is that, should Trudeau somehow gather the courage to concede to U.S. demands for change to managed trade, he would be doing Canadians a favour. Other than the farmers who benefit greatly from the grossly expensive system, few Canadians awake each morning thanking God that egg producers and milk providers enjoy special protection from ever having to compete.
> 
> A new NAFTA that sacrificed managed trade for a semblance of sanity from Washington would be something to brag about, yet the Liberals would likely be hesitant to do so, given sensitivities in Quebec. How ironic that a government scrambling for accomplishments might fear to boast of its one real success. Perhaps they could fall back on the “blame Harper” option, as in: “If only Harper had ended managed trade, we wouldn’t have to.”


Freeland is so far out of her depth here, it's not even funny.


----------



## FeXL

Sarah Palin, Loyal Running Mate, Excluded from John McCain’s Funeral



> Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, who was Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)’s running mate in the 2008 presidential election, has been excluded from his funeral.
> 
> Breitbart News has independently confirmed an earlier report in _People_ magazine, which reported that Palin was not sent an invitation, and was told through intermediaries to stay away from the ceremony.
> 
> McCain fundraiser Carla Eudy confirmed to People that Palin had not been invited — possibly, _People_ speculated, at the behest of the McCain family.


----------



## FeXL

He just kissed his career goodbye...

Facebook Engineer's Stunning Admission: "We Tear Down Posters Welcoming Trump Supporters"



> On Tuesday morning, President Trump lashed out at Google, with his remarks later broadening to include Twitter and Facebook, accusing it of "rigging" search results by presenting only results "from National Left-Wing Media" and accused "Google & others are suppressing voices of Conservatives and hiding information and news that is good."
> 
> Those companies "better be careful because you can’t do that to people," Trump said later in the Oval Office. "I think that Google, and Twitter and Facebook, they are really treading on very, very troubled territory and they have to be careful. It is not fair to large portions of the population.”
> 
> Google immediately responded, condemning Trump's charge, and claiming that "Search is not used to set a political agenda and we don’t bias our results toward any political ideology."
> 
> And yet, as so often happens, in Trump's crude delivery, the politically incorrect truth was once again found.
> 
> According to a memo posted on Facebook's internal message board titled "We Have a Problem With Political Diversity", and which was published by the New York Times, senior Facebook engineer Brian Amerige confirmed Trump's allegation writing that "*we are a political monoculture that’s intolerant of different views*" and shockingly admitted that "*we claim to welcome all perspectives, but are quick to attack — often in mobs — anyone who presents a view that appears to be in opposition to left-leaning ideology*. We throw labels that end in *obe and *ist at each other, attacking each other’s character rather than their ideas."
> 
> The scathing indictment of Facebook's liberal "mono-culture" continues:
> 
> _*We do this so consistently that employees are afraid to say anything when they disagree with what’s around them politically*.​ HR has told me that this is not a rare concern, and I’ve personally gotten over a hundred messages to that effect. Your colleagues are afraid because they know that they — not their ideas — will be attacked. *They know that all the talk of “openness to different perspectives” does not apply to causes of “social justice,” immigration, “diversity”, and “equality.” On this issues, you can either keep quiet or sacrifice your reputation and career*._​


Links' bold.

No surprise that those throwing around the "bigot" moniker are the biggest bigots of the bunch!


----------



## FeXL

This is hilarious. "Fine. So I can't merely give away the files that will allow people to print their own 3-D gun. I'll charge them for it then..."

Man Behind 3D Gun Files Spoils The Left's Celebration Over Ban With Major Announcement



> The anti-gun Left could not contain their excitement when news broke on Monday that a federal judge in Seattle extended a ban on Austin-based company Defense Distributed which prevented it from hosting 3D-printable gun files, though the company has a license from the State Department to do so, and, you know, First Amendment protections.
> 
> The ruling was intensely shaky and a jab to both the First and Second Amendment, so naturally Democrats were aroused.
> 
> But their celebration was premature.
> 
> Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson crushed their short-lived happiness during a Tuesday press conference where he revealed that he actually won't be stopped from sharing technical data; he will simply sell the files via his website, *defcad.com*. (Yes, he can do this.)


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What’s most bizarre is that, should Trudeau somehow gather the courage to concede to U.S. demands for change to managed trade, he would be doing Canadians a favour. Other than the farmers who benefit greatly from the grossly expensive system, few Canadians awake each morning thanking God that egg producers and milk providers enjoy special protection from ever having to compete.


The line the egg and dairy cartels like to use: "People want a predictable price for their eggs and milk." I'll take wild price fluctuations between low and lower.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I'll take wild price fluctuations between low and lower.


Any day of the week!


----------



## FeXL

Spent a week in the Seattle area earlier in the month. Couldn't walk anywhere without the smell of pot permeating the atmosphere. 

Also couldn't get away from Greenie preaching. It, too, was everywhere, from the docents at the aquarium to the announcer on the Harbour Tour to the memo printed on the monorail ticket that it was "CARBON FREE!!!" because it used electricity.

Garbage from Washington state's booming pot industry clogs gutters, sewers and landfills



> Plastic "doob tubes" and small Mylar bags used to package pot are moldering in gutters, bleaching out in landfills and bobbing in waterways.
> 
> Concentrated nutrients and fertilizers left over from cannabis growing operations are being dumped in public sewers and making their way past wastewater treatment plants into Puget Sound. And millions of pounds of weed harvest waste that could be composted are instead getting trucked to landfills.
> 
> This, in a part of the country that prides itself on being environmentally friendly.
> 
> "We're seeing a lot of marijuana packaging in our public spaces," said Heather Trim, executive director of Zero Waste Washington, which organizes litter cleanups. "Cannabis packaging is adding to our load, which then gets washed into our lakes and Puget Sound."


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Funeral jokes such as that are in poor taste.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

People learn a great deal about us from our children.


----------



## Macfury

Didn't know you were such a fan of the military Freddie--I will keep reminding you of that incessantly.


----------



## FeXL

Former Democrat Aide Chuck Todd: Media Bias Does Not Exist, And It's Time to Take the War to These Lying Racist Conservative Sonsabitches



> Via Ed Driscoll, even Ted Koppel admits the media has abandoned its traditional (or claimed) role as neutral reporters, but immediately justifies it by claiming Trump made them do it.


----------



## FeXL

Sen. John McCain's funeral put Washington's vicious political hypocrisy fully on display



> Hypocrisy, they say, is the tribute that vice pays to virtue. If so, then much tribute was paid this weekend.
> 
> I am speaking, of course, of the funeral for Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and the concomitant speechifying by politicians and pundits. And I wasn’t the only one to notice. As Tim Alberta wrote in Politico: “There are, after all, disparate realities — one inside the holy halls of the National Cathedral, where powerful people mourn the death of civility; and another in the surrounding city, where many of those same powerful people drive nails ever deeper into its coffin. And there is a greater juxtaposition still — this one between the virtue-signaling, convention-worshipping insiders of Washington and the mad-as-hell, burn-it-down voters in the provinces. This might not be Donald Trump’s town, but it’s still his country.”


Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. 'Magine that.

"At the end of last year, the farm was short 50 workers needed to help peel, package and roast garlic. Within two weeks of upping wages in January, applications flooded in. Now the company has a wait-list 150 people long."



> News of the eventual raise to $15 ... spread quickly. "Moving to $13 became really attractive and made it worth it for people to carpool into these jobs," Christopher said. He's now getting applications from workers willing to commute nearly ***two hours*** to and from the farm.


And not a gov't mandated wage increase in sight...

Related:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Huh. 'Magine that.
> 
> "At the end of last year, the farm was short 50 workers needed to help peel, package and roast garlic. Within two weeks of upping wages in January, applications flooded in. Now the company has a wait-list 150 people long."
> 
> 
> 
> And not a gov't mandated wage increase in sight...
> 
> Related:


I've always said that the problem with needing migrant labour is that the farmers don't pay citizens enough to work there. If you need to pay $20 an hour to get fruit pickers then do it.


----------



## FeXL

There goes another Prog narrative.

Trump Policies Push Obamacare Rates Down



> he Democrats and the media have repeatedly accused President Trump and the GOP Congress of “sabotaging” Obamacare, claiming that changes to the “Affordable Care Act” would result in unprecedented premium hikes in 2019. In July, for example, Nancy Pelosi made the following claim: “Their latest assault on health care will significantly increase premiums for millions of hard-working American families across the nation.” Meanwhile, ever eager to disseminate Democratic propaganda, “news” outlets like the _Los Angeles Times_ have published stories with tendentious titles such as the following: “The costs of Trump’s sabotage of Obamacare already are showing up in rate hikes.”
> 
> It goes without saying that the Democrats and the “news” media were deliberately attempting to mislead the public. *In reality, 2019 will be the first year ever in which Obamacare premiums will decline. In 12 states, according to Obamacare.net, the average rate charged by insurers selling plans through federal and state exchanges will actually be lower than in 2018.* The largest cut will be in New Hampshire, where the average premium will drop by 13.47 percent. The smallest reduction will be in Wyoming, where the decrease will be about 0.25 percent. In the 38 remaining states, premium hikes will be far less than they have been since Obamacare was enacted. The average increase nationwide will be around 4 percent.


Bold mine.



> President Trump signaled the insurance industry that these changes were coming with an executive order on his first day in office. And, while the Democrats and the media failed to grasp its significance, the insurers understood that competition was coming sooner rather than later.
> 
> Consequently, they rammed through one final rate robbery while HHS began working on new rules that would give consumers greater choice and Congress worked on a budget provision that would eliminate the outrageous tax-penalty for failing to buy health insurance. The insurers then began planning for a new reality — one in which Americans wouldn’t be forced to buy their product and cheaper alternatives to Obamacare would be available outside the exchanges. This is why the rates will stop skyrocketing in 2019. That’s the beauty of allowing free market competition in our health care system. It drives prices down. *If this is what the Democrats and the media call “sabotage,” beat me harder baby.*


Bold mine.

:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Jihadis Jailed: Five Extremist Muslims from New Mexico Compound Arrested by FBI



> The dramatic developments came just two days after a judge dismissed child abuse charges against three of them
> 
> The FBI arrested New Mexico Amalia compound residents on federal firearms and conspiracy charges, according to a statement by the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of New Mexico.
> 
> The arrests on Friday came just two days after Judge Emilio Chavez dismissed child abuse charges against three of the five on a timing technicality.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> There goes another Prog narrative.


I love it when they say that people now freed of the legal requirement that forced them to buy insurance they couldn't afford have "lost" their coverage.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I love it when they say that people now freed of the legal requirement that forced them to buy insurance they couldn't afford have "lost" their coverage.


Yep. That's what happens when the Progs try to control the language.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Ad hits Sheldon Whitehouse’s Climate Change obsession: “Sheldon is kind of a Doofus”



> Flanders has rolled out his second TV ad focusing again on Whitehouse and Climate Change, ending with an older woman calling Whitehouse a “Doofus”:
> 
> It may seem to an outsider that calling Whitehouse a “doofus” is needless name calling. But I bet if you stopped Rhode Islanders on the street and asked for word association with Whitehouse, that word (or something similar) would be popular. I don’t know if the Flanders campaign focus grouped it or just did their own word association, but I suspect it’s not for nothin’ that they chose that line of attack.
> 
> Well-known local lawyer and Flanders friend Dick McAdams summed up what might be the Flanders strategy:
> 
> _“Everyone I know would rather have a beer with Bob than a chardonnay with Sheldon.”_​


As an aside, spent a lot of time in Montana this summer, there are a few signs up for Sen. Jon Testor (D) here & there. Curiously, every single one of them is absent any political affiliation at all. Absolutely nothing associating him with the Dems. Just "Testor" on a coloured background. In addition, I heard a couple radio ads that state how many bills both he & Trump have agreed upon. He's definitely riding the Trump wave & distancing himself from the left as much as possible.


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Obama Prepares For The Campaign Trail, But Some Democrats Want Him To Back Off



> Former President Barack Obama is preparing to stump for various Democrats as midterm elections near while some members of the party running for reelection are telling him to keep his distance.
> 
> *Democratic Sens. Jon Tester of Montana and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota worry a surrogate like Obama could distract from focusing on their Republican opponents.* Obama himself is keeping a wide berth from endorsing national campaigns in states President Donald Trump won in 2016.
> 
> “We’re not going to use any surrogates. Surrogates are fine but we don’t need them,” Tester told The Hill on Saturday.


Related to my above post.

They see an affiliation with the Dems as a handicap. Can't imagine why...


----------



## FeXL

US economy grew at a brisk 4.2 pct. annual rate last quarter



> The U.S. economy grew at a strong 4.2 percent annual rate in the April-June quarter, the best showing in nearly four years, as growth stayed on track to produce its strongest full-year gain in more than a decade. Strength in business investment offset slightly slower consumer spending.
> 
> The Commerce Department on Wednesday revised up its growth estimate for last quarter from an initial estimate of a 4.1 percent annual rate. The second quarter marked a sharp improvement from a 2.2 percent gain in the January-March period, though some of the strength last quarter came from temporary factors, including a surge in U.S exports before tariffs were to take effect.
> 
> *Economists expect growth to slow to a still solid 3 percent annual rate the rest of the year, resulting in full-year growth of 3 percent for 2018. It would be the best performance since 2005, two years before the Great Recession began.*


Bold mine.

But _damn_ that President Trump!!!


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> US economy grew at a brisk 4.2 pct. annual rate last quarter
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> But _damn_ that President Trump!!!


Not possible. Obama said those days were never coming back.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Not possible. Obama said those days were never coming back.


Under the socialists, it never would have.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Under the socialists, it never would have.


He imagined a "can't-do" world governed by the likes of Hillary and Notley.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He imagined a "can't-do" world governed by the likes of Hillary and Notley.


Well, Bill's Wife Will Never Be POTUS (gawd I luv saying that!!!) & Red Rachel will be given the shoe in a few short months. (I love saying that, too.)

Win/win.

Which reminds me, I need to find me a big, fat Cohiba cigar for the humidor & get that 2015 vintage Imperial Stout out of the cellar & into the beer fridge...


----------



## FeXL

More from the compassionate, intellectual, peaceful, left.

Car Ramming Attack on Dallas Fox Affiliate After 'Meet the Press' Host Says to 'Fight Back' Against Fox News



> A man rammed his truck into the studios of Dallas Fox affiliate KDFW earlier this morning, just two days after _Meet the Press_ host Chuck Todd published an article calling on his media colleagues to "start fighting back" against Fox News.


For those of you who don't think there is a connection between the two, check your meds.

More:



> KDFW reports on the incident targeting their offices:
> 
> _A man was arrested Wednesday morning after crashing a truck into the side of the FOX4 building in downtown Dallas.
> 
> The man, after repeatedly crashing his vehicle into a side of the building with floor to ceiling windows, got out of his vehicle and began ranting.
> 
> FOX4 photojournalists were able to film him placing numerous boxes next to a sidedoor filled with stacks of paper. The papers were also strewn across the sidewalk and street adjacent to the building.
> 
> The man ranted about "high treason" and also mentioned a sheriff's department._​


High treason, huh? Sound like a Prog to you?

Further:



> This car ramming attack comes just after NBC host Chuck Todd published an article on Monday at The Atlantic calling for others to "start fighting back" against Fox News.
> 
> According to Todd, Fox News is the face of a 50-year vilification campaign targeting corporate media.
> 
> Of course, his corporate media colleagues all dutifully jumped on the anti-Fox News bandwagon in support of Todd's call.


So, CM, what now? I told you this would happen.

Can you imagine the hue & cry if some ******* had bounced his pickup truck (with an NRA sticker on his back window) off the front door of the _NYT_? Should the right sit back & take this kind of Prog-inspired crap or should we fight back? At what point do you say, "Enough is enough"?

Related:


----------



## Macfury

Laughing my ass off at this "anonymous" NYT op-ed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

These clinkers won't move the dial one iota against Trump:



> We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.


Love this too:



> But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.


The rule applies only to Republicans of course. When Democrats win you get Obama crowing: "Elections have consequences" and moving unilaterally on his socialist wish list.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah, it's pretty rich.

"Anonymous", yet again. More Fake News? 

Why is it that all these Prog "patriots" are scuttling about like cockroaches in the dark? It seems to me that a _real_ patriot would proudly stand up and say, "Come & get me".

Did you read Sanders' response?


----------



## 18m2

FeXL said:


> "Come & get me".


The author would then lose their ability to affect influence over Trump and his knee jerk actions.

Maybe he/she was just stirring the pot :heybaby:


----------



## CubaMark

You guys are a riot. It'll be interesting to come back to these posts in a few months and compare your ideological denials with (liberal biased) reality... :lmao:

Meanwhile, the confirmation hearings for Trump Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh are underway. To say that it's entertaining is a major understatement. Case in point, Senator Harris' grilling of this slippery bastard:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5VvFJ6myBE[/ame]

Also worth reading: 

*Kamala Harris and Cory Booker Have Upended the Kavanaugh Hearings

Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh was at a loss for words when pressed about his relationship with Trump*










Brett Kavanaugh’s Supreme Court confirmation isn’t going as smoothly as Republicans had hoped. Though they still have the ability to confirm President Trump’s latest pick for the high court without help from Democrats, the proceedings have been marred by protests, and Kavanaugh hasn’t been able to provide much ballast for his qualifications other than that he is “pro-law.” 

He didn’t help his case on Wednesday. As the hearing entered its 12th hour, Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA), who on Tuesday attempted to delay the hearing, asked Kavanaugh if he discussed Special Counsel Robert Mueller or his Russia investigation with anyone from Kasowitz Benson Torres, the law firm founded by Trump’s personal attorney, Marc Kasowitz. Kavanaugh was at a loss for words.

“Be sure about your answer,” Harris warned after an initial pause from Kavanaugh. The nominee continued to stammer and furrow his brow as he tried to work his way out of responding directly. 
(Rolling Stone)​
*And for a real good time*, check out Senator Leahey schooling Kavanaugh on how it's really not OK for a Supreme Court nominee to outright lie.... if buddy didn't know the definition of "perjury" before, he sure as heck does now....

_Senator Leahy, in devastating fashion, outlines how Kavanaugh has misled the committee about receiving stolen documents and collaborating with the guy who stole them, Manny Miranda_
(Twitter)​


----------



## Macfury

What an echo chamber you must live in CM. Harris and Booker are widely seen as having humiliated themselves. Booker's "big reveal" show that Kavanaugh opposed using race or national origin for both law enforcement and airport security screening. Not only that but that idiot's histrionics about releasing "classified documents" was a complete joke--the documents had been cleared for public consumption the day before.

Having Senator Patrick "Leaky" Leahy "schooling" anyone on sharing confidential documents is simply incredible.


----------



## FeXL

What's truly entertaining is the shrieking, crying & whining from the "Democrat-Media-Leftist complex". (h/t AoS)

Further from Ace,



> [T]he Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, which in reality were staged as a combination nominee character assassination, anti-Trump rally and 2020 Democrat prexy promotion.





CubaMark said:


> To say that it's entertaining is a major understatement.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Further on my observation above on Prog "patriots".

BTW, I ain't got no love for Rubio but he knocks it out of the park here.

America has one duly elected president. Anybody serving at his pleasure should do so faithfully. When they feel they no longer can, they should resign & speak in their own name so the country can evaluate their insights with a full understanding of where they are coming from.


----------



## FeXL

Trump's campaigning in Montana again.

Trump Rails Against Tester, Liberal Mainstream Media in Montana Rally



> Tester, Trump suggested, is running a con on Montana voters.
> 
> “Everybody knows Jon Tester’s game — he says one thing in Montana, but does the exact opposite in Washington,” he said. “That’s what happens. He’ll come home and tell you about your Second Amendment; then he’ll vote for something where it knocks the hell out of it. *Jon Tester talks like he’s from Montana. Then he votes like he’s Nancy Pelosi.*”


Yeppers.

Donald Trump in Montana: Jon Tester Lives in the Swamp and ‘Loves the Swamp’



> “Jon Tester will never drain the swamp because he happens to live in the swamp and he loves the swamp,” Trump said during the rally.
> 
> He said that Tester would continue to support the Democrats’ liberal agenda, despite his efforts to portray himself as someone who cared about Montana values when seeking re-election.


More:



> The president acknowledged that Tester was running ads highlighting Trump’s signature of critical veterans reform bills but noted that he was beholden to liberal donors and lobbyists.
> 
> “He has taken more cash from lobbyists than almost anyone in the entire Senate,” Trump said.


----------



## FeXL

Hmmm...

Democrat Election Scam Just Chose Wyoming's Next Republican Governor



> Democrats pretending to be Republican for primary day just chose the next Republican candidate for governor in America's reddest state. Wyoming gave President Trump his biggest victory in the entire presidential election, with sixty-seven percent of the vote. Because the state is so red, the Democrats' choice will definitely win the general election and become the next governor of Wyoming.
> 
> In Wyoming's recent primary, Republican voters didn't get to choose their own candidate. Democrats in the 21st century don't believe in having two-party elections. In California, they try to shut out Republican voters by having a system where the two highest polling candidates win, even if both are Democrat. In Wyoming, they believe they should get to choose their primary candidate and ours – because they will choose more wisely and more "moderately" than Republican voters. They get away with it, because Wyoming was forced by the federal government under Clinton to allow cross-over voting in the primary.
> 
> A red state like Wyoming has a double problem come election time. Democrat politicians don't have a chance to be elected, so at all levels of local, state, and federal office, they masquerade as Republican candidates, lying to the voters about their true political affiliation.
> 
> *The double whammy is that Wyoming voting law allows people to register or change their party affiliation at the polling place on voting day and vote in whichever primary they choose. So RINOs are chosen in the Republican primary by Democrat voters pretending for a day to be Republicans. It makes a travesty of the two-party system and cheats Republicans of getting to select their own candidates.*


Bold mine.

Time to change that law...


----------



## Macfury

That sad sack Obama is trying to take credit for the Trump economy:

https://ntknetwork.com/obama-complains-about-trump-taking-credit-for-strong-economy/

Amazing how Obama's anti-business agenda resulted in such growth. The recovery started under Obama, tha's for sure--but a recovery shouldn't last eight years!


----------



## Beej

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...na-bashs-husband-says/?utm_term=.c2297314e957


> The idea that the hand sign is a secret symbol for *********** owes its mainstream spread to a viral troll campaign aimed at making liberals and the media look gullible. In February 2017, 4chan’s /pol/ board discussed ongoing tactics to try to get the idea to go viral. “To any who haven’t seen the original thread, our goal is to convince people on twitter that the ‘ok’ hand sign has been co-opted by neo-nazis,” the original poster of the thread wrote.
> 
> As BuzzFeed has reported, /pol/ was gleeful when the okay hand sign started to get mainstream traction. As the campaign spread, however, the symbol was simultaneously adopted by the alt-right — an umbrella term for those on the far right who embrace white nationalist views — and the pro-Trump Internet, both of whom seem to primarily use the gesture to “trigger” liberals who believed the hand sign was a decoder ring to detect secret Nazis.


A hoax was believed by fools, so it was used more widely to make fun of said fools. Because of this, the okay hand sign needs to be written up as news. Idiocracy.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Please Mr. Trump, get rid of the marketing boards for us--Justin is too gutless to do it on his own.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Barry's legacy.

Obama: Benghazi Was a Conspiracy Theory. Also, The Idea That the Economy Improved Under Trump Is an Even Bigger Conspiracy Theory.



> Here's a video clip of Obama claiming Benghazi was a "wild conspiracy theory."
> 
> Which part of it was a "conspiracy theory" -- that the attack was conducted by an Al Qaeda group (a fact Hillary Clinton admitted in a long-concealed email the very night of the attack) or that you lied and lied about this fact to maintain your other lie about Al Qaeda being on the run?
> 
> Obama also claimed that the economy was doing just as well under his maladministration as under the current one. Economists and basic mathematics disagree, firmly.
> 
> No magic wand needed:
> 
> _“President Trump would need a magic wand to get to 4% GDP,” stated President Obama. I guess I have a magic wand, 4.2%, and we will do MUCH better than this! We have just begun.
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 10, 2018_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Further on Trump’s idiocy.


----------



## SINC

Ever look up Trumpery in the dictionary?


----------



## Macfury

"In" ?


Freddie_Biff said:


> Further in Trump’s idiocy.


----------



## Macfury

I think this definition works better:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Ever look up Trumpery in the dictionary?




+1 LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

Further from the compassionate, intellectual, _peace loving_, left

DC police investigate threat to commit mass shooting at a MAGA event in Trump International Hotel



> Police have responded to the Trump International Hotel in Washington DC after an anonymous threat to shoot up a meeting there supporting President Donald Trump.
> 
> The threat was made ahead of the planned Tuesday evening event by an anonymous Twitter account that supports the *Democratic Socialists, a far-left political group*.
> 
> 'I am coming with a gun and i expect to get numerous bloodstained MAGA hats as trophies,' the account wrote, referencing the Trump campaign slogan 'Make American Great Again'.


My bold.

Nope. No way. Not a chance that inciting violence is actually going to end up in violence. Ain't happenin'...


----------



## CubaMark

(Twitter)

* * *

*Trump Reused Old 9/11 Tribute Photo Featuring Ex-Staffers Omarosa Manigault and Hope Hicks*

Donald Trump is facing backlash over how he is honoring those who died in 9/11 — for the second time in just a few hours.

In addition to being heavily criticized for doing a double fist pump as he arrived at a 9/11 memorial service on Tuesday, the president also faced backlash after he posted a photograph to Instagram depicting the White House staff at attention, which he suggested was taken Tuesday.

The photograph is old, however, as it includes Omarosa Manigault Newman and Hope Hicks, both of whom left the Trump Administration months ago.

* * *

Many social media users called out Trump for reusing the old photo, which he captioned: “Departing Washington, D.C. to attend a Flight 93 September 11th Memorial Service in Shanksville, Pennsylvania with Melania. 

(People.com)​


----------



## Macfury

Well CM, since you previously entertained the possibility that 9/11 was a false flag. Trump is simply pumped up out the deception. 

(Is criticizing these photos really that important to you?)


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Well CM, since you previously entertained the possibility that 9/11 was a false flag. Trump is simply pumped up out the deception.
> 
> (Is criticizing these photos really that important to you?)


What is the photo from? You can grab a picture of someone doing who knows what and take it completely out of context. 

I find it amusing how sensitive people are, a simple "!" and people are up in arms. Well at least one person based on the above picture, not sure if anyone else is upset about it.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I find it amusing how sensitive people are, a simple "!" and people are up in arms. Well at least one person based on the above picture, not sure if anyone else is upset about it.


People who don't normally care about any such thing are picking through media coverage with a fine-toothed comb to see if they can find ANYTHING that might perverted to reflect badly on Trump. They'd normally spit on the Stars and Stripes, then turn around and wail that Trump does not respect the flag.


----------



## FeXL

If the worst thing you TDS'ers can be critical of is a second hand photo, you got nuttin'.

Have a cerveza or two. Chase the old lady around the bedroom. Toss a ball around with your kids. Change the oil in the car. Kick the dog. Just f'ing go do something, _anything_, that will take your mind off Trump. Jeezuz...



CubaMark said:


> Trump Reused Old 9/11 Tribute Photo Featuring Ex-Staffers Omarosa Manigault and Hope Hicks


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Illegal Immigrants Involved in Theft of _39 Million_ Social Security Numbers



> They've committed no crimes, except for all the crimes.
> 
> _The Immigration Reform Law Institute said that from 2012 to 2016 there were "39 million instances where names and Social Security numbers on W-2 tax forms did not match the corresponding Social Security records."
> 
> The group said that there is a "thriving black market" used by illegal immigrants to get Social Security numbers needed to get a job.
> 
> 
> Their report draws attention to a move by former President Barack Obama to stop sending so-called "no match" letters to employers notifying them that numbers used by employees on the wage forms do not match their identity._​
> Obama did that at the same time he illegally granted legal status to the so-called "Dreamers."
> 
> There is no explanation for this other than the obvious ones: He wanted to make it easier to work illegally in the US, and he wanted to appeal to the illegal immigrant population, which is not permitted to legally vote but whose vote is for some reason courted by Democrats.


----------



## FeXL

FFS. It was only a matter of time...

Your Moral And Intellectual Superiors



> Yes, you can blame President Trump for Hurricane Florence


The sad thing is, there are millions of people stupid enough, ideologically driven enough, or willfully ignorant enough, to believe this crap.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

Former Trump Aide Michael Caputo: I Know Who the Op-Ed Writer Is



> _Not only did "she" hide behind an anonymous op-ed instead of quitting, she tried to pin the blame on her colleagues, leaving several hints in the piece that led analysts to different officials in the administration. She published the piece now in order to affect the midterms and impeach President Trump, Caputo also suggested.
> 
> ...
> 
> Caputo left listeners a few other hints about the op-ed author’s identity:
> 
> 
> "It's par for the course for her strange personality."
> 
> "It's dangerous to fire her because of who she's related to."
> 
> He added that the writer is "arrogant" and sees herself as "Captain America."_​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Former Trump Aide Michael Caputo: I Know Who the Op-Ed Writer Is


I heard that interview live on a local Buffalo station a few days ago.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> FFS. It was only a matter of time...
> 
> Your Moral And Intellectual Superiors
> 
> 
> 
> The sad thing is, there are millions of people stupid enough, ideologically driven enough, or willfully ignorant enough, to believe this crap.


Meanwhile:



> Global CO2 emissions from energy in 2017 grew by 1.6%, rebounding from the stagnant volumes during 2014-2016, and faster than the 10-year average of 1.3%
> co2-bubbles-yeast-fermentation-stats-review-bp.jpg
> 
> *Declines were led by the US (-0.5%). This is the ninth time in this century that the US has had the largest decline in emissions in the world. This also was the third consecutive year that emissions in the US declined...*


https://www.bp.com/en/global/corpor...cal-review-of-world-energy/co2-emissions.html

So declines in CO2 cause severe hurricanes?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> So declines in CO2 cause severe hurricanes?


Lies!!! It's all lies, propagated by one of the biggest players in the petroleum industry to cover their ass! Lies, I tell ya!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Why is anybody of sane mind still using them? Oh...

LEAKED VIDEO: Google Leadership’s Dismayed Reaction to Trump Election



> A video recorded by Google shortly after the 2016 presidential election reveals an atmosphere of panic and dismay amongst the tech giant’s leadership, coupled with a determination to thwart both the Trump agenda and the broader populist movement emerging around the globe.
> 
> The video is a full recording of Google’s first all-hands meeting following the 2016 election (these weekly meetings are known inside the company as “TGIF” or “Thank God It’s Friday” meetings). Sent to Breitbart News by an anonymous source, it features co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin, VPs Kent Walker and Eileen Naughton, CFO Ruth Porat, and CEO Sundar Pichai. It can be watched in full above. It can and should be watched in full above in order to get the full context of the meeting and the statements made.


More:



> VP for Global Affairs Kent Walker argues that supporters of populist causes like the Trump campaign are motivated by “fear, xenophobia, hatred, and a desire for answers that may or may not be there.”
> 
> Later, Walker says that Google should fight to ensure the populist movement – not just in the U.S. but around the world – is merely a “blip” and a “hiccup” in a historical arc that “bends toward progress.”


And, I call bull$h!t on the statement issued by the bastards in the update at the bottom of the page.

Related:

Leaked Video Shows Google's Leaders Disparaging Trump Voters, Scheming to "use the great strength and resources and reach we have to continue to advance really important values"



> Tucker Carlson reported on an email which shows that Google tried to Hack the Election for Hillary. Specifically, a senior Google employee bragged that she had used Google's power to try to boost Hispanic turnout in some states, in order to help Hillary win.
> 
> She called this a "silent donation."
> 
> Google will not clarify what she meant by making a "silent donation."


DuckDuckGo


----------



## FeXL

Further from the compassionate, intellectual, _measured_, left...

Resistance Makes Rape Threat to Susan Collins Staffer over Kavanaugh Vote



> Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) and her staffers are facing taunts and threats over Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, including a rape threat, reports the _New York Times_.
> 
> Buried under no fewer than ten paragraphs and the anodyne headline, “Interest Groups Turn Up Pressure on Senators Before Kavanaugh Vote,” the far-left _New York Times_ finally gets to the meat of the story with the news that Collins and her staffers are facing “threats” and “vulgar language” from the left-wing Resistance, all of this in the hope of intimidating Collins to vote against Kavanaugh’s confirmation.


Note to Progs: Yes, the _NYT_, that bastion of Prog truth.

More:



> The _Times_ did not report any similar behavior from anyone on the right who is hoping to affect Collins final decision on Kavanaugh.


Shocka.

'Cause there ain't any...

Every Prog teardrop tastes like fine cognac. Every Prog cry of grief is music to my ears. Every Prog face screwed up in anger is like a freshly painted da Vinci.

Suck it up, princesses. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, how's that Trump economy doing?

Food Stamp Usage Declines for Eight Straight Months



> The USDA data shows that since February 2017—Trump’s first full month in office—enrollment in SNAP dropped by 2,789,852, which can be mainly attributed to the Trump administration’s efforts to reform the nation’s food stamp program, and the improving economy.
> 
> The agency announced in March that it hired an “integrity officer” to bolster the administration’s efforts to prevent fraud in the country’s SNAP program and announced in February the rollout of its “Harvest Box” program to give food stamp recipients a box of food as part of their monthly benefits package.


More:



> The improving economy over the past few months has also brought more people off food stamps and into the job market. The American economy added 201,000 jobs in August 2018, and the unemployment rate has stayed low at 3.9 percent. Jobless claims also fell to a record low of 203,000—the lowest level for claims since 1969.
> 
> Wages have also risen among American households, causing them to make enough money to be able to support themselves without government assistance.
> 
> The U.S. Census Bureau announced Wednesday that the median household income for Americans reached an all-time high in 2017, and the number of Americans working full-time jobs increased by 2.4 million.


Related:

29.2% of U.S. Households Had Incomes of $100,000+ in 2017



> The percentage of U.S. households with annual incomes of at least $100,000 hit 29.2 percent in 2017, according to data published today by the Census Bureau.
> 
> That is up from 25.7 percent in 2013, which is the earliest year for which the Census Bureau has consistent data for household incomes.


:clap:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk Felonia von Pantsuit (aka "Bill's Wife") s'more!

EXPOSED: Hillary Clinton Moved 800K From Her Campaign To Help Fund ANTIFA



> Hillary, who long during the campaign trail condemned “dark-money” Super-PACs, has funneled over 800K from her Campaign over to one of these very same outfits. It has been revealed that the failed presidential candidate’s Super-PAC, “Onward Together”, is heavily backing “resistance” and Alt-Left extremist groups such as ANTIFA.


More:



> _According to Federal Election Commission documents, Hillary Clinton transferred $800,000 from her failed political campaign “Hillary for America” to her new Super-PAC “Onward Together”, before she announced the existence of the PAC in May, 2017.
> 
> Amid other disturbing details, it’s now been revealed that “Onward Together” is a 501(c)4 “Social Welfare” organization, which means that it’s not required to disclose many of the details of its operations to the public or disclose who its donors are._​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

How 57,000 Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party



> In a move that could have major implications for American politics, the leading socialist and communist organizations in the United States have formally allied to increase their infiltration and manipulation of the Democratic Party.
> 
> Communist Party USA (CPUSA) leader John Bachtell partially explained the new strategy in the pitch for party members to attend an online webinar that was held on May 23, 2018. According to Bachtell, the webinar would feature a panel of representatives from the CPUSA, Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Freedom Road Socialists Organization (FRSO), LeftRoots, and others.


The iron. Socialists & communists in everything but name being joined by those honest enough to admit it.

More:



> The Party of FDR, Harry Truman, and LBJ is rapidly becoming the party of Marx, Lenin and Mao. Voters need to be acutely aware of their choices when they go to the polls in 2018, 2020, and beyond.


Correction: It's already there... XX)


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Correction: It's already there... XX)


It's like people looking at Rachel Notley and imagining that a "democratic socialist" is something better than a socialist.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's like people looking at Rachel Notley and imagining that a "democratic socialist" is something better than a socialist.


Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

This just keeps getting better.

Desperate Democrats Try Ridiculous Hail Mary, Claiming There's an Eleventh Hour Accuser Against Kavanaugh



> And this letter is so explosive it's being kept secret, and being referred to the FBI, who will keep it confidential.
> 
> But Democrats can allude to this Mystery Accusation as they agitate against Kavanaugh.
> 
> _BREAKING: Sen. Feinstein confirms @BuzzFeedNews report —> https://t.co/wIAtiu4f3q pic.twitter.com/dmtLhOzgvX
> — Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) September 13, 2018_​


Feinstein's dentures must be going off like those windup ones at the joke store at this prospect.



> High school.
> 
> I was thinking last week that the only thing that could stop Kavanaugh was a sudden Anita-Hill-Type accuser.
> 
> And look at this -- poof! One just happens to appear.


Amazing coincidence, no?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> This just keeps getting better.
> 
> Desperate Democrats Try Ridiculous Hail Mary, Claiming There's an Eleventh Hour Accuser Against Kavanaugh
> 
> 
> 
> Feinstein's dentures must be going off like those windup ones at the joke store at this prospect.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing coincidence, no?


Apparently the accuser knew Kavanaugh from.... high school!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Apparently the accuser knew Kavanaugh from.... high school!


Yep. One of the commenters on that post wondered how many people Bill Clinton had raped in high school.

Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Good old Camera Hogg. He's been making a fool of himself since day 1. They should have taken the mic away then. It would have saved him a ton of humiliation.

David Hogg Makes A Fool Of Himself In Canada, Gets Mic Taken Away



> Left-wing activist David Hogg made a fool out of himself in Canada late last week while joining leftist Michael Moore for the premiere of his anti-Trump propaganda film "Fahrenheit 11/9."
> 
> Appearing on stage with Moore at the Toronto International Film Festival, Hogg spoke to the Canadian crowd about saving America and turning their "shame" into "votes."


More:



> *Hogg continued by suggesting that Canadians can donate money to political campaigns in the United States, which is a felony.
> 
> After making the embarrassing remarks, Moore took the microphone away from Hogg.*
> 
> Nearly ten minutes later, Hogg was briefly allowed to speak again. He called out to the IRS, which he hoped was watching him speak, and asked them to investigate President Donald Trump for getting "$30 million from Russia via the NRA."
> 
> Hogg, who has a tenuous relationship with the truth, has repeatedly spread this lie which he seems to have come up with on his own...


Bold mine.

I jes' luvs me sum good, ol' fashioned, well-informed, teenaged activists...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Luxury Socialism and the End of the Working Left

Two things. First:



> Luxury Socialism will tackle the prosperity crisis and rally the left’s core bases of government workers, welfare lifers and college students by offering them what they really want, luxuries, not necessities.
> 
> *Socialism’s main appeal isn’t to the working classes, but to the non-working classes.* The ideal socialist candidate, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Julia Salazar, is a wealthy leftist who pretends to be poor. Cortez and Salazar, two Democratic Socialists of America candidates, both told fake stories of rising from poverty, even though both women grew up in a comfortably prosperous lifestyle, Cortez’s father was an architect and Salazar’s a commercial airline pilot, in order to appeal to gentrifying lefties in New York.
> 
> The paradox of wealthy lefties like Cortez and Salazar faking poverty to appeal to other wealthy lefties is the one that lies at the heart of the left. And Luxury Communism and Luxury Socialism dispense with it. And with the hypocrisy and lies, the fake biographies and imaginary hard luck stories that go with it.


M'bold.

Yep.

And second:



> An emergency room Band-Aid can cost thousands of dollars for the same reason that the Pentagon might pay thousands for a screw. *Patients are similarly caught between contractors competing to defraud the government and each other in response to complex regulatory funding mechanisms.* The only difference is that because medicine hasn’t been fully nationalized, they sometimes see the bill.


M'bold.

A friend of mine has been home a month after a stay in a South Dakota hospital for an unexpected blood clot in his leg while travelling. The bills are just starting to come in.

Box of Kleenex (thinly disguised as "mucus cleaning tissue" or some such)—$80.

Related to the first point:


----------



## FeXL

So, further on Gaggle's video.

CNN Blacks Out All Coverage of Google's Political Planning Video



> If I were the Daily Caller's Joe Simonson, I'd be careful.
> 
> Last time someone challenged CNN, they cried to Twitter and got that blasphemer permanently deplatformed.
> 
> _After Breitbart published a leaked video of Google employees reacting to President Donald Trump's victory in 2016 on Thursday, CNN left its viewers in the dark by spending no time on-air covering the story and assigned no reporter to write about it for its website, according to a search by The Daily Caller News Foundation.
> 
> Ironically, just a few weeks ago in late August, CNN analyst Chris Cillizza dismissed a tweet alleging that Google had "rigged"search results against him as a "conspiracy theory."
> 
> "What the President of the United States is peddling to his 54 million Twitter followers, then, is an anecdote hung on a flawed analysis of media partisanship," Cillizza wrote on Aug. 28.
> 
> Since the release of the video, however, CNN has not devoted any time on its cable network or its website to cover its contents.
> 
> The Twitter feeds of prominent CNN journalists like Cillizza, Oliver Darcy, and Brian Stelter were also empty of any reference to the Breitbart story._​


Leave it to the Clinton News Network: "If we didn't cover it, it didn't happen!"


----------



## FeXL

This is hilarious.

Twitter Bars Center for Immigration Studies from Using Phrase "Illegal Alien," Claiming It's Hate Speech;
Later, Under Pressure, Reverses Its Ban



> _ 1/ Twitter is not allowing us to promote any tweets including the phrase "illegal alien(s)", citing it as Hateful Content. *However, the phrase "illegal aliens" has been used in both federal law and by the Supreme Court.*
> — Center for Immigration Studies (@CIS_org) September 11, 2018_​
> Twitter has now reversed its ruling here, but only because of pressure.


M'bold.

Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

More from the compassionate, intellectual, _peaceful_, left. (Article from July but receives updates)

Rap Sheet: ***567** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters



> It is open season on Trump supporters, and the media is only fomenting, encouraging, excusing, and hoping for more… The media are now openly calling Trump supporters “Nazis” and are blaming Trump for a mass murder he had nothing to do with. This, of course, is a form of harassment because it incites and justifies mob violence.
> 
> Here is the list, so far, and remember that if any one of these things happened to a Democrat, the media would use the story to blot out the sun for weeks. Remember how crazy the media went over a nobody rodeo clown who wore an Obama mask, a GOP staffer who criticized Obama’s daughters? And yet, hundreds of Trump supporters are harassed and brutalized and the media only dutifully report them, if at all. That is because the media are desperate to normalize and justify violence and harassment against Trump and his supporters.


Related:

Culture Wars

Related, too:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

What's the specific meaning of replacing Munsch with Giuilani? Since the characters don't even remotely match up, this must be an attempt at something.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What's the specific meaning of replacing Munsch with Giuilani? Since the characters don't even remotely match up, this must be an attempt at something.



If you don’t see it, then you just don’t see it. No point in explaining.


----------



## SINC

I don't see it either. Have never heard Giuilani scream, which is what must be the weak attempt at making people believe he does. He has always been calm and collected when speaking on any issue, since 9/11, and even then in the turmoil of that fateful day.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> A friend of mine has been home a month after a stay in a South Dakota hospital for an unexpected blood clot in his leg while travelling. The bills are just starting to come in.
> 
> Box of Kleenex (thinly disguised as "mucus cleaning tissue" or some such)—$80.
> 
> Related to the first point:


The way to approach those bills is to take that $1 box of Kleenix, note the 80x mark-up, then divide the total bill by 80 and offer to pay that amount along with an explanation pointing out the blatant overbilling and the assumption that if they overbill where anyone can pick it out they must also do so in areas where it's murkier and by a similar amount.

A better approach is to try to find out what medicare would be willing to pay on that bill, probably less than 10% of the bill. Medicare will pay the actual cost of providing the service, so offer about 10% over what medicare is willing to pay. 

The hospital has no reason to care whether or not he pays. If he doesn't they'll sell the bill for 5 to 10¢ on the dollar and take the rest as a tax write-off. That's how big non-profit hospitals can show book losses while reeling in massive profits.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I don't see it either. Have never heard Giuilani scream, which is what must be the weak attempt at making people believe he does. He has always been calm and collected when speaking on any issue, since 9/11, and even then in the turmoil of that fateful day.



Well this is a real photo of him, and he does bear a strong resemblance here to the Edvard Munsch painting.


----------



## FeXL

Ya know, Freddie, I've seen photos of you online. How would you feel if I started Photoshopping images of you in less than flattering scenarios?

Jes' askin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well this is a real photo of him, and he does bear a strong resemblance here to the Edvard Munsch painting.


----------



## FeXL

Eliminating 'most problematic' federal regulations saves taxpayers $1.3 billion this year



> The Trump administration ripped up federal regulations at a record pace this year and saved taxpayers $1.3 billion, double the goal set by the president, according to an American Action Forum analysis.
> 
> Casey Mulligan, chief economist of the President Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers, said the budget savings are actually higher because the Obama administration underestimated the cost of its red tape. Government budget scorekeepers use the estimated budget cost at implementation to assess savings from a rollback. The same data were used in the analysis.
> 
> “President Trump is not getting rid of all regulations by any means. But some of the most problematic ones, he’s getting rid of them,” Mr. Mulligan said.
> 
> Mr. Trump credits deregulation as much if not more than tax cuts with fueling the economic surge.


----------



## FeXL

Progs. Heads. Exploding...

Bob Woodard Drops Bombshell About Trump. Democrats Will Not Be Happy.



> Journalist Bob Woodward said in a radio interview on Friday with Hugh Hewitt that in the two years of investigative work that he conducted for his book "Fear," he found no evidence of collusion between President Donald Trump and Russia — which Special Counsel Robert Mueller was hoping to find.
> 
> "There’s a lot complimentary in this book, the most important of which is John Dowd firmly believes, the president’s former lawyer, that the special counsel, Bob Mueller, has nothing," Hewitt began. "There’s no collusion, there’s nothing. It’s all a play to get an 18 USC 1001 perjury trap, and that POTUS should never sit down. Is that a fair assessment of what John Dowd believes?"


More:



> "...Did you, Bob Woodward, hear anything in your research in your interviews that sounded like espionage or collusion?"
> 
> "I did not, and of course, I looked for it, looked for it hard," Woodward said.


The tears! They do nothing!!!


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

19 Aliens Charged With Illegal Voting In 2016



> On August 27, 2018 the DHS website posted a report, 19 foreign nationals indicted for illegally voting in 2016 elections that began with this paragraph:
> 
> _WILMINGTON, N.C. – Nineteen foreign nationals were charged with unlawfully voting in the 2016 elections Friday, and a U.S. citizen was charged with aiding and abetting an alien to falsely claim U.S. citizenship to register to vote. The indictments follow an investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) as part of a newly created Document and Benefit Fraud Task Force (DBFTF) in the Eastern District of North Carolina._​
> On the following day, on August 28th, the Justice Department issued a press release about the very same case, Nineteen Foreign Nationals Charged for Voting in 2016 Election and added:
> 
> _Multiple Defendants Voted In More Than One Election._​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

#FLIP: PAUL MANAFORT AGREES TO COOPERATE WITH MUELLER
#FLOP: But the Cooperation Will Not Concern the Trump Campaign
#TWIST: Feds Weighing Charges Against Clinton Lawyer and Former WH Counsel Greg Craig



> Aww. So close.
> 
> Per NPR:
> 
> _Paul Manafort's cooperation agreement with the special counsel does not include matters involving the Trump campaign, according to a person familiar with the case, @johnson_carrie reports
> — NPR Politics (@nprpolitics) September 14, 2018_​
> Well, if he's not turning state's witness against Trump, then who?


----------



## FeXL

NYT: Whoopsie! I Guess We Shouldn't Have Suggested That Nikki Haley Was Responsible for a $50,000 Expenditure for Curtains That Was Actually Made During the Obama Administration



> The New York Times ran an article decrying the wasteful expenditure on $50,000 for curtains for new ambadassorial office. They placed Nikki Haley's picture at the top of the article. They ran a headline suggesting her direct involvement.
> 
> Turns out, the purchase had been made in 2016, under the Obama Administration.
> 
> Which the article itself noted -- _in the sixth paragraph_. But the headline and picture chose to emphasize Nikki Haley's involvement, which _was not a fact at all_.
> 
> *Why? For clicks, for Likes, and to attack the opposing political party.*
> 
> The New York Times adds an "editors note" instead of admitting they straight-up ran #FakeNews as yet another attempt at a partisan hit.


Bold mine.

Yeppers. When ya got nuttin' else...

Related.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Ya know, Freddie, I've seen photos of you online. How would you feel if I started Photoshopping images of you in less than flattering scenarios?
> 
> 
> 
> Jes' askin'...




You’re stalking me online? That’s sad.


----------



## FeXL

Stalking you? 

Don't flatter yourself. I was going to book you for an event & decided against it. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re stalking me online? That’s sad.


----------



## Macfury

Get over it Freddie, you posted the photo yourself!

https://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/108650-playing-nicely-together-16.html#post1560914



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re stalking me online? That’s sad.


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> Ya know, Freddie, I've seen photos of you online. How would you feel if I started Photoshopping images of you in less than flattering scenarios?
> 
> Jes' askin'...


That would be cyber bullying and it is frowned upon... unless that person is generally disliked by mainstream media.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> That would be cyber bullying and it is frowned upon...


Why, yes. Yes, it would.

Like, say, Rudi Giuliani substituted into a Munsch painting?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Get over it Freddie, you posted the photo yourself!
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/108650-playing-nicely-together-16.html#post1560914



Ah yes, I forgot about that one. I photoshopped the Rastafarian hat myself.


----------



## FeXL

Reeeeeeally? One would never guess... /s



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ah yes, I forgot about that one. I photoshopped the Rastafarian hat myself.


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk about Ms. Ford's reputation some...

WHY CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD’S HIGH SCHOOL YEARBOOKS WERE SCRUBBED: Faculty Approved Racism, Binge Drinking and Promiscuity



> On Monday Sept. 17th, Christine Blasey Ford’s high school yearbooks suddenly disappeared from the web. I read them days before, knew they would be scrubbed, and saved them. Why did I know they would be scrubbed? Because if roles were reversed, and Christine Blasey Ford had been nominated for the Supreme Court by President Trump, the headline by the resistance would be this:
> 
> CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD AND THE DRUNKEN WHITE PRIVILEGED RACIST PLAYGIRLS OF HOLTON-ARMS.


:yikes:

Ya don't say.

More:



> _*“Lastly one cannot fail to mention the climax of the junior social scene, the party. Striving to extend our educational experience beyond the confines of the classroom, we played such intellectually stimulating games as Quarters, Mexican Dice and everyone’s favorite, Pass-Out, which usually resulted from the aforementioned two.”*_​


More, yet:



> *“No longer confining ourselves to the walls of Landon and Prep, we plunged into the waters of St. John and Gonzaga with much success.”*​





> Now we turn to the final sentiments from Scribe 84, Chrissy Blasey’s senior year at Holton-Arms. Page 261 gives the parting sentiment of her six-year Holton experience. There are two relevant quotes. The first characterizes the senior girls as sexual predators upon younger boys:
> 
> *“Other seniors preferred to expand their horizons and date younger men, usually sophomores, who could bring the vitality and freshness of innocence to a relationship.”*​
> The Holton girls clearly portray themselves as the sexual predators here.


Further:



> In conclusion, please look again at the page above. In the final passage, the joy of passing out and forgetting everything you did the night before is praised:
> 
> *“And there were always parties to celebrate any occasion. Although these parties are no doubt unforgettable, they are only a memory lapse for most, since loss of consciousness is often an integral part of the party scene.”*​


All bold from the link.

No wonder she doesn't want to stand up in court.


----------



## Beej

Ted Cruz and Beto O'Rourke face off in first debate
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efTm9eZ1qvM[/ame]


The debate covers most of the leading topics in U.S. politics. Watch how each side argues in full instead of reading about it later after a reporter interprets the debate for you.


----------



## Macfury

I don't need to watch it because I've already seen the memes.



Beej said:


> Ted Cruz and Beto O'Rourke face off in first debate
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efTm9eZ1qvM
> 
> 
> The debate covers most of the leading topics in U.S. politics. Watch how each side argues in full instead of reading about it later after a reporter interprets the debate for you.


----------



## Beej

macfury said:


> i don't need to watch it because i've already seen the memes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> View attachment 87752




Good question.


----------



## Macfury

Good to see Michael Moore's _Fahrenheit 11/9_ tanking at the box office.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Good to see Michael Moore's _Fahrenheit 11/9_ tanking at the box office.


Really? My that is good news. The man is a pain.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Good to see Michael Moore's _Fahrenheit 11/9_ tanking at the box office.


The only kicker is that he noted prior to the release that if the production wasn't received well, he was going to move to Canuckistan. I can't imagine him actually walking to the border in Kaybeck, trailing his luggage behind him, so he should be easy to intercept at an airport or legit land crossing.


----------



## FeXL

Conflicting reports.

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> “REPORT” — Rosenstein has resigned…
> 
> _Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has verbally resigned to Chief of Staff John Kelly in anticipation of being fired by President Trump, according to a source with direct knowledge. Per a second source with direct knowledge: “He’s expecting to be fired,” so he plans to step down._​
> Update – NBC disputes.


Related:

NYT: Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein "Suggested" He Could Wear a Wire to Record Trump to Make a Case for a 25th Amendment Removal



> Fire him.
> 
> A savvy analyst posits that this leak is all about Rosenstein trying to make himself unfireable. He's trying to drum up support from the leftwing (as if he needed more of it) that he's protecting the Deep State from Trump, and that any firing would therefore be another Obstruction of Justice or whatever.
> 
> Fire him. Fire him now. Damn the consequences. Fire his ass.


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

A _few _links on the left's meltdown with Kavanaugh, in reverse chronological order.

Kavanaugh Kangaroo Kourt Thursday Now? (this one nails it)

Let Her Testify



> Then let the defamation lawyers take it from there.


Yep. Show the bastards Actions—>Consequences.

Flake Is Playing the GOP: He's Demanding the GOP Placate the Strategically Implacable Ford, While Simultaneously Planning to Vote "Present" on Kavanaugh

Literally Unf*ckingbelievable: "Dr. Ford" Doesn't Want to Come to DC to Testify, _Because She Doesn't Want to Fly, Now_



> "Amtrack can get her there by Monday," Vashta Nerada observes. And he's right!


Curious she was able to fly to Hawaii for her eddication...

CNN's All-Republican Woman Panel on Kavanaugh Accusation Doesn't Go The Way They Thought It Would



> Every one of the women here disbelieves the accusation and/or supports Kavanaugh. Their explanations range from a flat "She's lying" to "What 17 year old boy hasn't touched a girl he was trying to make it with?"


Did Blasey Ford's Advisor Rikki Seidman Tease Their "Strategy" for Borking Kavanaugh In July?



> Strange that so many question so much about Ford's claims -- why she never told anyone about this until this year (she mentioned an assault in 2012, we're told, but did not name Kavanaugh), why she's now afraid to fly, why the endless delays and gamesmanship with format, etc. -- but the NeverTrumpers have decided that it's verboten for Trump to ask a related question, "Why did she never talk to police?"


Feinstein: "Show some heart" and "Wait until Dr. Ford feels that she can come before the committee," Presumably Some Time in 2021 or Maybe 2025
Grassley: The Drop-Dead Deadline is 10PM Tonight. If We Don't Get a "Yes," We Vote on Monday.



> Democrats: "Show some heart. Wait until Dr. Ford _feels_ that she can come before the committee."
> 
> I mean, she's only had _Thirty Six ****ing Years_ to process this traumatic event that almost certainly didn't happen.


Marc Thiessen: Ford vs. Kavanaugh -- How much evidence do we need to destroy someone?

The drive to sink Kavanaugh is liberal totalitarianism

(not a surprise to anyone paying attention)

Democrat Congressman Eric SwallowAll on Leftists Making _Rape_ Threats to Senator Susan Collins: "_Boo Hoo Hoo_"

NYT: Christine Blasey Ford Asked Her Best Friend if She Had Ever Mentioned a Sexaul Assault to Her, and Her Best Friend Answered "No"

Woman Who Claimed She'd Heard About Kavanaugh Attack Recants and Admits She Lied;
_Says She Felt "Empowered"_

Kamala Harris: Accuser Should Not Be "Bullied" Into Testifying About It;
Mazie Hiromo: Men Should Shut Up

Something's Coming That Will Vindicate Kavanaugh?

Accuser's Lawyer: Having My Client Testify Under Oath Would be Contrary to the Purposes of Discovering the Truth

No $h!t...

Kavanaugh News



> SO NOW WE KNOW! Kavanaugh Accuser's Lawyer is Vice Chair of Soros Funded Org Opposing Kavanaugh. We knew Soros was behind this. $$ involved for sure! How low the Dems go to obstruct. [email protected], just get on with the vote. https://t.co/oFQsijzSQF
> — Nina Tomasieski (@MAGANinaJo) September 18, 2018​


Related:

When Every Boy Is Guilty, Every Girl Becomes a Monster


----------



## FeXL

So, on one hand you have a known politically right commenter barred from Twitter:

James Woods on why he’s locked out of Twitter is frightening: ‘Today, I am not in the mood for jokes …’

On the other, you have a Twitter ad featuring female genital mutilation receiving 30,000 views:

Twitter Approves Ads in Favor of Female Genital Mutilation After Blacklisting Pro-Lifers



> Despite complaints about the post, Twitter allowed the group to “promote” the post — a paid advertisement — which enhances the reach of the post and placed it on the timelines of users who do not follow the account or seek the content out themselves.
> 
> In a statement, a Twitter spokesman claimed the promoted post “*was approved in error* and the decision was immediately overturned by our teams.”


Bold mine.

Of course it was...


----------



## FeXL

Texts Show Disagreement Among Allegedly-Unified Intelligence Community Members on Russian Interference; Some Dismissed Accusations as Coming from Those "With Partisan Axes to Grind"



> But I thought they were unanimous and the evidence was unquestionable.
> 
> Strangely enough, some of these concerns were voiced by... Peter Strzok, who is himself an intense partisan, but who apparently found some partisans _too_ partisan.


----------



## FeXL

About that "Blue wave"...

Red Wave: Republicans flip a Democrat seat that was blue for 139 years!



> Voters elected political newcomer Pete Flores to the Texas Senate on Tuesday, flipping a Democratic district red for the first time in 139 years and bolstering Republicans’ supermajority in the chamber ahead of the November elections.
> A retired game warden, Flores defeated former state and U.S. Rep. Pete Gallego for the Senate District 19 seat after receiving backing from some of the state’s most prominent politicians, including Gov. Greg Abbott, Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, and U.S. Sens John Cornyn and Ted Cruz.


----------



## FeXL

Yet the Progs tell me that 16 year olds are mature enough to vote.

College students fail to cast absentee ballots because they can't find stamps, focus group finds



> College students at Old Dominion are having a tough time casting absentee ballots over a problem that costs cents — U.S. postal stamps.
> 
> Lisa Connors with the Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs told a local radio station this week that a recent focus group shed light on the logistical “hump” for college students. Virginia officials from multiple county departments surveyed their interns to better understand the problem.
> 
> “One thing that came up, which I had heard from my own kids but I thought they were just nerdy, was that the students will go through the process of applying for a mail-in absentee ballot, they will fill out the ballot, and then, *they don’t know where to get stamps*. That seems to be like a hump that they can’t get across,” Ms. Connors told WTOP on Tuesday.


Yeah, bold mine.


----------



## SINC

Anyone surprised?

KAVANAUGH ACCUSER'S LAWYER IS VICE CHAIR OF SOROS FUNDED ORG OPPOSING KAVANAUGH

https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/...osing-daniel-greenfield#.W6CYle6huuN.facebook


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Anyone surprised?
> 
> KAVANAUGH ACCUSER'S LAWYER IS VICE CHAIR OF SOROS FUNDED ORG OPPOSING KAVANAUGH


Not in the least.


----------



## FeXL

Further from the compassionate, intellectual, measured, left.

‘Unhinged’! Lefty protesters harass Sen. Ted Cruz & wife until they leave DC restaurant



> The protest opposing the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hit the Senate on Monday, and it even followed Sen. Ted Cruz and his wife into a DC restaurant that same evening. This idiocy has gotten out of control:
> 
> _BREAKING. Activists just chased @TedCruz out of a fancy Washington DC restaurant, chanting “We Believe Survivors!”_​


Where were these idiots when the news about the Prime Groper was raised?


----------



## FeXL

h/t AoS.



> The Horde should have fun with this. Ben & Jerry request suggestions for Democrat themed ice cream flavors.
> 
> _This certainly makes it easier to not eat their ice cream.
> 
> Via Washington Times.
> 
> Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield of Ben & Jerry’s ice cream are teaming up with MoveOn.org to hold a contest for a new line of Democrat-inspired ice cream flavors….
> 
> “We need a Democratic majority to check President Trump’s unrestrained power,” Mr. Cohen and Mr. Greenfield said in a press release on MoveOn.org’s website. “And we also need to send progressive champions to Congress who will fix our health care system with Medicare for All, protect clean air and water, and get big money out of politics.
> 
> “But we need your help! We need to come up with seven amazing ice cream flavors (and flavor names) that not only taste great but also capture the essence of what each candidate stands for,” they said…._​
> 
> The ONT's suggestion, Welfare Rocky Road and Transgendered Tutti-Frutti.


I like $h!t on a Stick Sauerkraut myself. Couple that with Snowflake Meltdown Pecan, Bill's Wife Won the Popular Vote Lemon and Progressive Whiner Peach... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk the Dem-Left-Media complex & Kavanaugh s'more!

Michael Avenatti's Ringer: I Was Aware Kavanaugh Was Spiking the Punch So I Stopped Drinking the Punch But Kept Going to His Parties and Then I Got Gang-Raped and He Was There. PS, Please Respect My Privacy.



> "This is from the Twilight Zone," Kavanaugh says in response.
> 
> Timeline Problems?
> 
> _avenatti's accuser graduated high school three years earlier than him and yet still attended gang rape parties thrown by 17 year olds
> — Joe Gabriel Simonson (@SaysSimonson) September 26, 2018_​


New York Times Hid Multiple Key Facts In Kavanaugh Yearbook Hit



> A New York Times article scrutinizing inside jokes in the 1983 yearbook of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh’s Georgetown Preparatory School hid multiple problems with its claims, including that it was sourced to a rabidly anti-Trump politician in Maryland and his associate.


The Paper of Record? Shocka...

LOL: 2nd Accuser, Debbie Ramirez, Declines to Testify Under Oath;
Tells Senators to See Her Statement in _The New Yorker_



> According to Senator John Kennedy, at least.
> 
> _Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., who sits on the committee, said a lawyer for Ramirez told committee staff she would not speak to them about her allegation that Kavanaugh flashed his naked groin in her face during an alcohol-laden party their freshman year. Ramirez made the accusation in a blockbuster Sunday night New Yorker story.
> 
> "Our counsel repeatedly tried to reach him," Kennedy said of Ramirez's lawyer. "They finally did reach him, and he said we are not issuing a statement. He said if you want our statement, read the New Yorker."_​


Lisa Murkowski: This Isn't About Qualifications, It's About Believing Victims



> Oh, is it?
> 
> She repeats every assumption of the hard left like a good little quisling.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

This keeps getting better & better!

The Morning Report - 9/27/18



> Good morning kids. Thursday's here and after the last 24 hours I feel as if I've had my kishkes ripped out, not so much because of the completely outrageous, risibly false and lurid allegations against Judge Brett Kavanaugh, made all the more laughable as they seemed to come almost every 15 minutes from such outstanding examples of humanity as bald-headed shyster-cum-pornographer Michael Avenatti as the afternoon wore on into the evening, but because people on our side (and I'm not necessarily blaming Chuck Grassley or Mitch McConnell) are now looking as if they are wavering in their support of the nominee.


More:



> In fact, the more frequent, lurid, outrageous and transparently false the accusation, the more they seem to be teetering. For pity's sake, why oh why?! I'm referring of course to the anti-Trump or to be charitable Trump-averse Senators on the judiciary committee and elsewhere. To cap it all off, missing the spotlight, Democrat 2020 Presidential hopeful Kamala-Toe Harris informs us that during law school, an anonymous source who just came forward says she witnessed Brett Kavanaugh use a time machine to travel back to 1932 to kidnap, gang-anal-rape the Lindbergh baby with several other Brett Kavanaughs from other space-time dimensions, and then drain its blood in order to bake toll house cookies under the guidance of his rabbi, while simultaneously causing the Dust Bowl due to having studied the Joo weather control chant.


Question: But did Kavanaugh actually _eat_ said toll house cookies?

No? Well, then...

The "Strategy" Begins to Fall Apart



> Note that Debbie Katz, who represented this Swetlick lunatic, now represents Ford.
> 
> _BREAKING: 2nd Kavanaugh accuser Julie Swetnick once sued her former employer, the New York Life Insurance, for 'sexual harassment'. Representing her was the firm run by Debra Katz, who now reps Christine Blasey Ford - WSJ
> — Wired Sources (@WiredSources) September 27, 2018_​
> 
> _DOTS CONNECTED: Regarding “accuser #3” Julie Swetnick—a decade ago she sued her employer for sexual harassment...
> representing her in the complaint was the firm run by Debra Katz, the lawyer now rep’ing Dr. Ford.
> — Laura Ingraham (@IngrahamAngle) September 27, 2018_​
> ...
> 
> _*Ex-boyfriend filed restraining order against third Kavanaugh accuser*
> 
> ...
> 
> According to Vinneccy, Swetnick threatened him after they broke up and even after he got married to his current wife and had a child.
> 
> "Right after I broke up with her, she was threatening my family, threatening my wife and threatening to do harm to my baby at that time," Vinneccy said in a telephone interview with POLITICO. "I know a lot about her."
> 
> "She's not credible at all," he said. "Not at all."_​


Ya think?

Wow: Ford's Claim of Proof-by-Polygraph is... Terrible



> She wasn't even asked about Kavanaugh?!
> 
> _Dr. Ford's polygraph letter contradicts letter she sent to Feinstein. Polygraph letter says "4 boys and a couple of girls" were at party. Letter to Feinstein says "me and four others." No way to reconcile the two—irrespective of whether she's counting herself in polygraph letter. pic.twitter.com/aWJ10vTDna
> — Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) September 26, 2018_​
> Apparently the only two questions she was asked on the polygraph only indirectly concerned the alleged assault; she was asked if her statement (which claimed the assault happened) was true, and she was asked if she made anything up.
> 
> She wasn't asked specifically if Brett Kavanaugh tried to rape her or even basic details like that.


That's _some_ indictment, ain't it...

Ford Submits Her Testimony; Says Her Long-Suppressed Rape Story Came Up in Counseling Because She Insisted Her Husband Install a Second Front Door in the Home and He Refused So She Told Him She Needed a Second Exit for Reasons of Psychological Safety



> She also says she didn't tell her parents because she felt ashamed but she doesn't explain why she didn't tell her friends.
> 
> Was she afraid her friends would ground her?


Or the cops?

More:



> Oh, and Creepy Porn Lawyer and Scumbag Michael Avenatti dodges the question as to why he claimed his client would claim Brett Kavanaugh gang-raped her but her statement says nothing of the sort.


Julie Swetnick´s stunning claims... 



> ...made, serendipitously, on *the eve of a Senate committee hearing* for Justice Brett Kavanaugh...
> 
> _The accuser contends *she attended at least ten house parties over a three-year period*, that began *when Kavanaugh was 15 or 16 years old*. She contends “numerous boys” were involved in multiple acts of sexual assault, and literally *lined up outside the room to wait their turn* to commit sexual assault.
> 
> As far as we know, *not a single victim or witness* ever called the police.
> 
> As far as we know, *not a single victim or witness* ever told their parents, teachers, or any other responsible adult._​
> Hang on... Ms Swetnick apparently *wasn't willing to take this to the police*... but decades later gives it to the Democratic Party & porn star "Stormy" Daniels lawyer, Michael Avenatti?


Absolutely credible!

More Kavanaugh



> _ BREAKING: Congressional sources say new Kavanaugh accuser Swetnick can offer no eyewitness or other evidence to show the SCOTUS nominee participated in any alleged "gang rape" or forced himself on girls, and that she only personally witnessed him drinking "excessively" at parties
> — Paul Sperry (@paulsperry_) September 26, 2018_​


More:



> _ New letter from Ford lawyers to Judiciary: “Under no circumstances” will they hand over her medical records, including therapist notes, to committee. Did send them her polygraph test
> — Seung Min Kim (@seungminkim) September 26, 2018_​


Why not? Where's the cheering & jeering from the compassionate, intellectual left, as they did with Le Pen? 

CM? You've been remarkably quiet on this whole TGF. Curiously, as have all the other Progs on these boards. No comment?

Related:


----------



## SINC

Bump to move thread.


----------



## FeXL

I've noted before on these boards that when you become a politician, it's open season, _as long as the criticism is legitimate_ and not merely a witch hunt. However, I mean verbally. I certainly don't condone giving someone & their family the bum's rush out of a restaurant, nor violence, nor the threat of violence.

Don Lemon On Ted Cruz Being Harassed and Threatened By a Mob: _"That's What He Signed Up For"_



> Hasn't the media signed up for this as well?
> 
> Should Don Lemon be permitted to eat dinner in peace ever again?
> 
> It is bizarre to me that these people encourage these sorts of threatening mobbings and yet believe that they will not be the next up for this sort of treatment, or that they can just say "I'm a 'journalist, I have aristocratic privilege'" and everyone will just agree that they have the aristocratic privilege they claim.
> 
> Nope. Doesn't work that way. When the right's had enough -- and that moment is fast approaching -- they will go after the _real_ core of the Democrat Party, the media, first.


However, I'm pretty much a staunch proponent of _what goes around, comes around..._


----------



## FeXL

Nails it.

Maxine Waters Assaulted me 25 years ago when I was 2 years old. Please listen to my story & retweet so the FBI can launch an investigation.

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Castro’s Torture of American POWs in Vietnam



> _Editors’ note: Last Friday, Sept. 21, 2018, our nation, led by *our president*, solemnly marked *National POW/MIA Recognition Day*, during which we honored all American prisoners of war and expressed our deep gratitude and respect for what they endured and -- as empirical evidence suggests -- in some cases may very well be continuing to endure. Indeed, we pay tribute to those who never returned -- and, of course, also to their suffering families. In honor of this sacred day, Frontpage has deemed it important to run Jamie Glazov's article, *Castro’s Torture of American POWs in Vietnam* from *Breitbart's Dec. 8, 2016* issue. We hope that our leadership and citizens will take serious action on this issue. We will always remember and we will never forget._


----------



## SINC

*Will the Supreme Court Drop a Bill Cosby Bomb on the Brett Kavanaugh Hearing?*



> On Thursday at 10 a.m. ET, Dr. Christine Blasey Ford will appear before the Senate Judiciary Committee to detail her allegation of being sexually assaulted by Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. No doubt all of the television news networks are prepared to cover the high-stakes proceedings (not to mention the other drama at the White House when President Donald Trump meets with Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein). But is everyone ready for what might be coming directly from the Supreme Court the same day?
> 
> As it turns out, Kavanaugh's would-be colleagues on the high court are expected to issue orders from its most recent conference held on Monday. At that conference, Chief Justice John Roberts and seven associate justices discussed pending petitions and voted on which cases deserve further review. Among the dozens of petitions are two defamation lawsuits against Bill Cosby for how his former lawyer asserted that sexual misconduct accusations against him were "fabricated." Accordingly, just as Ford begins telling her own story in Congress, the Supreme Court may be announcing whether it will be shaping the contours of #MeToo speech for decades to come.
> 
> The timing is extraordinary. Not only because of the Kavanaugh hearing, but also because just a day ago, Cosby was sentenced to three to 10 years in jail for sexually assaulting Andrea Constand.


More at the link.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/t...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Castro’s Torture of American POWs in Vietnam


Oh, man. Where does someone start with that one? :lmao:

Never heard of this one - and the title is obvious clickbait (only once you get inside the article do you see that it's a guy named "Fidel", not the actual Fidel Castro).

If *if* something like this happened, considering the context of the Vietnam War and the atrocities committed by Americans in Vietnam during this illegal (and unpopular at home) war, i find it curious that your outrage was not similarly on display during the accounts (including photographic evidence) of U.S. torture of Iraqi detainees (in Iraq and the illegally-occupied military base at Guantanamo Bay), Afghanis, Yemenis, and who knows who else.

Dig Fidel out of his tomb in Havana, prop him up at the podium at the UNGA, and he'll still get more applause from those in attendance that the _Donald Trump Clown Show Extravaganza_®


----------



## Macfury

That's because the UN has embraced left-leaning authoritarianism since its inception. I don't think the applause of that crowd is a feather in anybody's cap.



CubaMark said:


> Dig Fidel out of his tomb in Havana, prop him up at the podium at the UNGA, and he'll still get more applause...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Nails it.
> 
> 
> 
> Maxine Waters Assaulted me 25 years ago when I was 2 years old. Please listen to my story & retweet so the FBI can launch an investigation.
> 
> 
> 
> Related:




For someone who disapproves of political memes, you sure use a lot of them. Can you say hypocrite?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




Now that’s a friendly-looking bunch.


----------



## Macfury

I think that's what a crowd looks like when Christine Blasey Ford describes her alleged sexual assault--but offers no information to corroborate it. What should the picture look like?


----------



## Macfury

Which one is the meme? They look like editorial cartoons to me.



Freddie_Biff said:


> For someone who disapproves of political memes, you sure use a lot of them. Can you say hypocrite?


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I think that's what a crowd looks like when Christine Blasey Ford describes her alleged sexual assault--but offers no information to corroborate it. What should the picture look like?


You don't get it. The view discriminates if one must face people who look wrong, It is superficial -- they're all upper-middle class to wealthy -- and this isn't a place with a jury of peers or due process. No matter. 

The view should either be different for each person, or chosen by an appropriately tuned diversity equation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Which one is the meme? They look like editorial cartoons to me.




You’ve been calling editorial cartoons memes for years.


----------



## SINC

*American Bar Association: Delay Kavanaugh until FBI investigates assault allegations*

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/27/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> *American Bar Association: Delay Kavanaugh until FBI investigates assault allegations*
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/27/...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark


Did not expect such a letter from the ABA. I agree with their contentions, but I don't think that the vote for confirmation will be delayed.  We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

The ABA has long ago ceased to be a neutral organization and become an advocacy organization for the Democrat Party. Its opinion as a so-called neutral body is ancient history.


----------



## Macfury

I don't believe that's true.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’ve been calling editorial cartoons memes for years.


----------



## Rps

Dr.G. said:


> Did not expect such a letter from the ABA. I agree with their contentions, but I don't think that the vote for confirmation will be delayed.  We shall see.


Of course the vote will go through. The real issue here is the incestuous relationship between the Supreme Court and the political power base be it Dems or GOP. It would seem reasonable to me that a counter to this would be adding term limits to the SCOUS, and based on the performance of some of the senators I saw, the Senate as well.


----------



## Macfury

I can't imagine having someone grill me on national television regarding the jokes I made in my high school yearbook. I told people that my career ambition was to be a "'Yes' Man."



Rps said:


> Of course the vote will go through. The real issue here is the incestuous relationship between the Supreme Court and the political power base be it Dems or GOP. It would seem reasonable to me that a counter to this would be adding term limits to the SCOUS, and based on the performance of some of the senators I saw, the Senate as well.


----------



## Macfury

This collapse of Michael Moore's audience is heartening!

Fahrenheit 11/9; revenues drop 80% in 4 days - anti-Trump movie plays to empty theaters! The American Mirror


----------



## 18m2

*Trump's trash talk only helps the Liberals*

This appears to be a form of election meddling.



> Ultimately, every time he opens his mouth on trade, Trump shows that when it comes to enemies, Trudeau couldn’t ask for a better friend than the U.S. president.


https://www.thestar.com/politics/po...rumps-trash-talk-only-helps-the-liberals.html


----------



## Macfury

Sorry, that isn't influencing me to vote Liberal and I doubt any Conservative will be swayed either. Justin fumbled the ball and I will not rally around the Liberal flag when the Canadian economy pays the price of his bizarre efforts to negotiate the new NAFTA as an experiment in social justice.



18m2 said:


> This appears to be a form of election meddling.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/politics/po...rumps-trash-talk-only-helps-the-liberals.html


----------



## SINC

One can only hope the continued bizarre failures of Turdeau will bring down him and the Liberal party come next election.


----------



## 18m2

My concern is the people that support Trudeau look at Trump's actions and behaviour, and credit Trudeau with the strength and foresight to think he's performed in Canada's best interests. The article sure suggests there are some unintended consequence to Trump's actions namely making Trudeau look better than he actually is.


----------



## Macfury

I think that some Liberals might be convinced that Trudeau is "standing up" to Trump.



18m2 said:


> My concern is the people that support Trudeau look at Trump's actions and behaviour, and credit Trudeau with the strength and foresight to think he's performed in Canada's best interests. The article sure suggests there are some unintended consequence to Trump's actions namely making Trudeau look better than he actually is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Every. Woman. In. This. Photo.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, they're all women. Some of them are Kavanaugh's family members. What's your point?


----------



## CubaMark

If any woman had given such hysterical testimony as Kavanaugh, the right-wingers would be going on and on _and on_ about how they're unfit to hold any public office due to emotional instability....


----------



## Macfury

A number of times you've warned EhMacers to "grab their tissues" when they watch a video you posted, and nobody has chided you.



CubaMark said:


> If any woman had given such hysterical testimony as Kavanaugh, the right-wingers would be going on and on _and on_ about how they're unfit to hold any public office due to emotional instability....


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

That's pretty funny! I've heard the progs on this board do nothing but complain that Canada is involved in any military venture involving the US. Now it's a virtue?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Don't just post a pitcher, Freddie. Use some of your brain power to analyze the situation.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>





Macfury said:


> Don't just post a pitcher, Freddie. Use some of your brain power to analyze the situation.


Halifax artistâ€™s cartoon in response to Kavanaugh hearing goes viral | Local | News | Local | The Chronicle Herald

The artist, Bruce MacKinnon, says it best -- 

"MacKinnon says he was inspired to draw the cartoon because he believes the hearing was a “watershed moment” in how allegations of sexual abuse are treated in North America."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Halifax artistâ€s cartoon in response to Kavanaugh hearing goes viral | Local | News | Local | The Chronicle Herald
> 
> 
> 
> The artist, Bruce MacKinnon, says it best --
> 
> 
> 
> "MacKinnon says he was inspired to draw the cartoon because he believes the hearing was a “watershed moment” in how allegations of sexual abuse are treated in North America."



I believe a good political cartoon speaks for itself, as this one does. Thanks for the link, Marc.


----------



## Macfury

Apparently they are sent to the FBI for further investigation. What's the problem?

["MacKinnon says he was inspired to draw the cartoon because he believes the hearing was a “watershed moment” in how allegations of sexual abuse are treated in North America."[/QUOTE]





Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe a good political cartoon speaks for itself, as this one does. Thanks for the link, Marc.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe a good political cartoon speaks for itself, as this one does. Thanks for the link, Marc.


True, but some context is helpful. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Don't just post a pitcher, Freddie. Use some of your brain power to analyze the situation.


Freddie has brain power?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Freddie has brain power?




And I suppose you don’t think of that comment as one coming from an asshole. Congrats, Don, you did it again.


----------



## Macfury

MacKinnon simply overlooks the cornerstone of justice: we are innocent until proven guilty. This has not changed.

Neither have the Democrats, who could have called the FBI months ago if they truly cared about Ford.

Meanwhile a credible and recent abuse case against Democrat Keith Ellison goes nowhere, investigated only by the House Committee on Ethics, not the law.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Again, hilarious to see how Trump's victory turned progs into the biggest boosters of the FBI.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Again, hilarious to see how Trump's victory turned progs into the biggest boosters of the FBI.



In what world is this Trump’s victory? His nominee is being sliced and diced and turned inside out.


----------



## Macfury

Every SC nominee is sliced and diced and turned inside out as a matter of course. If Kavanaugh doesn't make it, we'll see how the progs like Amy Coney Barrett.

I'm referring to Trump's election victory. Suddenly, the left recast the FBI as a heroic organization, beyond normal reproach.



Freddie_Biff said:


> In what world is this Trump’s victory? His nominee is being sliced and diced and turned inside out.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Every SC nominee is sliced and diced and turned inside out as a matter of course. If Kavanaugh doesn't make it, we'll see how the progs like Amy Coney Barrett.
> 
> I'm referring to Trump's election victory. Suddenly, the left recast the FBI as a heroic organization, beyond normal reproach.


Kavanaugh should be thoroughly investigated regarding whatever role he had in the Vince Foster cover-up, rather than anything he did in high school. If he did have a role he should be unceremoniously turfed.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Every SC nominee is sliced and diced and turned inside out as a matter of course. If Kavanaugh doesn't make it, we'll see how the progs like Amy Coney Barrett.
> 
> I'm referring to Trump's election victory. Suddenly, the left recast the FBI as a heroic organisation, beyond normal reproach.


Is it really that they are being cast as heroes? Or is it just their roll to investigate? I mean we are talking potential criminal activity. No a role for an independent investigation. I think in the U.S. rape has no statute of limitations. But I think I think I know this from TV.


----------



## wonderings

smashedbanana said:


> Is it really that they are being cast as heroes? Or is it just their roll to investigate? I mean we are talking potential criminal activity. No a role for an independent investigation. I think in the U.S. rape has no statute of limitations. But I think I think I know this from TV.


Pretty sure there is a statute of limitations otherwise Cosby would have been charged with a lot more then 1 case as there was over 60 accusers. I could be wrong as well but thought most of that was because of some statute of limitations.

I did do a quick google search and came up with this:

"Thirty-four states impose limits on when a rape case can be brought forward, ranging from 3 to 30 years after the assault. These statutes of limitations were created to ensure that evidence presented in trial has not deteriorated over time. But some crimes — like murder or sexual abuse of a child — have been deemed too heinous to warrant any limitation. Several states have now extended that same protection to rape and sexual assault, as well.

When states do pose a statue of limitations on rape cases, it varies based on the severity of the crime. Hawaii, for example, gives victims 6 years to prosecute charges for first-degree sexual assault, but only three years for second or third degree. On the other end of the spectrum, the California State Assembly recently voted to repeal its 10-year limit on all felony sexual abuses. The bill still has to pass the Senate and governor before it becomes law."
https://www.revelist.com/feminism/statute-of-limitations-rape/4429

More in the article. I am not familiar with the website so cannot be sure of its facts, just came up on top when I searched.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Pretty sure there is a statute of limitations otherwise Cosby would have been charged with a lot more then 1 case as there was over 60 accusers. I could be wrong as well but thought most of that was because of some statute of limitations.


It depends on the state. In Kavanugh's I've read online there is no statute of limitations on rape.

Which is why Ford going to the Dems is an ever bigger indictor of a Charlie Foxtrot. If it had really happened, she should have gone to local LEO's.


----------



## FeXL

Yeah. You're a hypocrite!

'Sides, as MF noted, they are quite plainly political cartoons with a point that is quite clear & evident. Unlike, say, the fourth rate memes you often put up that have no point, are inaccurate and generally are not funny.



Freddie_Biff said:


> For someone who disapproves of political memes, you sure use a lot of them. Can you say hypocrite?


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Fauxcahontas is running for 2020!

Elizabeth Warren Reverses Course on 2020 Presidential Run After PR Spin on Claims of Native American Ancestry



> Just six months after declaring she would not run for president in 2020, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) has reversed course.
> 
> Warren’s change of mind comes after she and her campaign team have spent much of 2018 trying to spin her false claims of Native American ancestry.


----------



## FeXL

Knocks the sucka outta the park!

‘True American Coward’: Candace Owens Attacks Flake over Kavanaugh Vote



> _Attention black America:
> 
> *The last time a mob of white liberals demanded that we believe women without due process, our ancestors were hung from trees.*
> 
> Under no circumstances should we allow this radical feminism to persist.#ConfirmKavanaughNow #StopModernLynchings
> 
> — Candace Owens (@RealCandaceO) September 28, 2018_​


My bold.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

*Brett Kavanaugh's Yale Classmate Says He Was a Belligerent Drunk Who Lied Under Oath*

_The classmate, Chad Ludington, who said he frequently socialized with Judge Kavanaugh as a student, said in a statement that the judge had been untruthful in testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee when he had denied any possibility that he had ever blacked out from drinking.

Mr. Ludington said that Judge Kavanaugh had played down “the degree and frequency” of his drinking, and that the judge had often become “belligerent and aggressive” while intoxicated. Other former classmates have made similar claims.

“It is truth that is at stake, and I believe that the ability to speak the truth, even when it does not reflect well upon oneself, is a paramount quality we seek in our nation’s most powerful judges,” Mr. Ludington said, adding that he planned to “take my information to the F.B.I.”_​
(Splinter)​


----------



## Macfury

Damn, he got drunk as a kid and lied about it, but I can't prove he got drunk or that he lied, but a buddy of mine got thrown in the clink?

Barbecue his ass!


----------



## FeXL

Further from the compassionate, intellectual, measured left.

Georgetown professor says white GOP senators ‘deserve miserable deaths’ after Kavanaugh hearing



> Dr. Carol Christine Fair, an associate professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown, said white Republican senators, specifically Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, who defended Kavanaugh in a fiery speech, “*deserve miserable deaths*." Fair went on to say in her Saturday message that the living should “*castrate their corpses and feed them to swine*."
> 
> “Look at [this] chorus of entitled white men justifying a serial rapist’s arrogated entitlement,” she wrote. “*All of them deserve miserable deaths while feminists laugh as they take their last gasps. Bonus: we castrate their corpses and feed them to swine? Yes.*”


More:

Georgetown Professor: ‘Castrate’ White Men’s Corpses And ‘Feed Them To Swine’



> Fair recently came under fire in 2017 when she sent “hateful, vulgar” messages to a former Georgetown professor, Asra Nomani. Nomani claimed Fair began harassing her after she admitted to voting for Donald Trump for president.
> 
> “I’ve written you off as a human being,” Fair said in one message. “Your vote helped normalize Nazis in D.C. What don’t you understand, you clueless dolt?”
> 
> “‘F**K YOU. GO TO HELL,” Fair wrote in a Facebook post directed toward Nomani.
> 
> In January 2018, Fair was stopped and detained after allegedly calling German officers “Nazi police” at an airport in Frankfurt, Germany.


She seems nice.

Oh, I know. She's the exception, not the rule. Everybody else is fine...

Hey, Freddie, here's s'more "memes" for ya:


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's have a look at some of Dem dere accusers & accusations an' all, shall we?

Christine Blasey Ford Seems to be Straight-Up Lying About Her "Escape Door" and When and Why It Was Built

Seems? :yikes:

The Morning Rant: J.V. Edition



> NYT: Kavanaugh Once Threw Ice On Some Guy At A Bar
> 
> _According to a report by The New York Times, Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh once threw ice on a man at a bar during college.
> 
> The incident allegedly resulted in an altercation between the man and one of Kavanaugh’s friends, according to a police report written in September 1985.
> 
> The NYT reported early Monday that Kavanaugh once started a fight by throwing a beer in someone’s face. Chad Ludington, a former Yale basketball player who socialized with Kavanaugh, said, “On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi-hostile remark, not by defusing the situation, but by throwing his beer in the man’s face and starting a fight that ended with one of our mutual friends in jail.”_​
> I believe this one, although the characterization of the precipitating remark is undoubtedly colored by current events. Most of us have similar events in our past, and I do not think less of Kavanaugh for this one. *In fact, I think more of him.* It suggests that he isn't a boring drone and has some real-world experience.


My thoughts exactly.

However:

CNN Hag Alisyn Camarota: If Kavanaugh Dumped a Drink on Someone in College, I Certainly Think That Makes It Plausible That He Attempted to Rape Someone

Close enough for A Democrat...

Kavanaugh's "Third Accuser," the Creepy Porn Lawyer's Catspaw, is a "Real Beaut"

An Accusation Is Made... Against Julie Swetnick

"Recovered Memories," McMartin Style, All Over Again: A "Christine M. Blasey" Co-Wrote a Paper on How to Conduct Self-Hypnosis to Recover Memories and "Create Artificial Situations"

Emphasis from the link.



> _ BREAKING: This is HUGE (waiting for permission to h/t): One of Christine Ford Blasey's research articles in 2008 included a study in which participants were TAUGHT SELF-HYPNOSIS & noted hypnosis is used to retrieve important memories "AND CREATE ARTIFICAL SITUATIONS." pic.twitter.com/11n1JVnArM
> — Margot Cleveland (@ProfMJCleveland) October 1, 2018_​


If only the same standards were acceptable to SC nominees:

"Outside" Attorney Hired by Democrat Party: The Allegations Against Keith Ellison Cannot Be Sustained Without Videotape and Evidence Beyond His Ex-Girlfriend's Claims

Democrat Media Complex Sinks to New Lows: _How Do We Know Brett Kavanaugh Isn't a Pedophile?_


----------



## FeXL

Epitaph for a Dying Culture



> The Kavanaugh confirmation hearings and their endless sequelae have ended up as an epitaph for a spent culture for which its remedies are felt to be worse than its diseases. Think 338 B.C., A.D. 476, 1453, or 1939.


More:



> In this growing Dark Age, nothing is as it was. We have only faint memories of what was normal just decades ago. Professional sports become vehicles for promulgating progressive versions of social justice. Athletic excellence is increasingly adjudicated on the basis of ideology, despite the dark lessons of totalitarian societies that have done just that in the past.
> 
> Hollywood has run out of ideas, reduced either to making pale imitations of classic films or flat psychodramas about courageous, perpetually 30-something social justice warriors. Late-night comedy, indeed all comedy, has disappeared and turned into a boring regurgitation of progressive themes or safe situational banality—reminiscent of the decline of Old Comedy of Aristophanes to the psychodramas of Hellenistic New Comedy. Even left-wing comedians such as Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, or George Carlin could not now exist.
> 
> In science, we are back to the age of silencing Galileo. Dare suggest that human efforts to address purported man-caused global warming are not cost-effective, and one’s academic career, his funding and status are imperiled. Suggest that research shows not all the accusations of sexual harassment of females are to be believed without corroborating evidence, and one is damned as a retrograde sexist if not a closet assaulter himself. Imply that the greatest health crisis facing black youth is the violence on the streets of a Baltimore or Chicago, and one is a supporter of police misconduct. Hint that our sex is almost always innate and biologically determined and not usually socially constructed, and one becomes a “-phobe” of some sort.
> 
> Language is in service to the state and progressive agendas, either by the creation of new words or refining old ones. “Homosexual” and “transvestism” are not any longer clinical vocabulary, but slurs. “White” is not descriptive so much as pejorative. “Liberty” and “freedom” are synonymous with selfishness, if not conspiracy. To join “overseas contingency operations” to thwart “man-caused disasters” and “workplace violence” could mean almost anything and thus, by design, they mean nothing.
> 
> The result is that, in lieu of pushback, to escape the new Dark Age, tens of millions of Americans are increasingly dropping out in search of some sort of physical or mental monastery, an escape, a refuge from a vindictive state and from those who crafted and are invested in it.


Further:



> In other words, America is resembling the medieval Balkans, where spent traditionalists fled to the mountaintops, abandoned the plains of a dying culture to the new zealots who stormed in under the pretense of civilization.


Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

About that Blue Wave...

They’re not admitting it yet, but the Kavanaugh overreach is a looming disaster for the Democrats’ hopes of capturing the Senate.



> The Missouri _Scout_ poll had worse news for the incumbent Democrat — in that what’s driving down her numbers is unquestionably the Kavanaugh vote…
> 
> Significantly, the poll found that 49 percent of likely voters said the Supreme Court confirmation process for Brett Kavanaugh has made them less likely to vote for McCaskill, while only 42 percent said it made them more likely to vote for her.…
> 
> Among female respondents, 47 percent said the confirmation process made them less likely to vote for McCaskill, while 42 percent said it made them more likely.
> 
> Among male respondents, 50 percent said the confirmation process made them less likely to vote for McCaskill, while 41 percent said it made them more likely.
> 
> Among Non-Partisan respondents, 46 percent said the confirmation process made them less likely to vote for McCaskill, while 39 percent said it made them more likely.
> 
> Among Republican respondents, 85 percent said the confirmation process made them less likely to vote for McCaskill, while 8 percent said it made them more likely.
> 
> Among Democrat respondents, 82 percent said the confirmation process made them more likely to vote for McCaskill, while 8 percent said it made them less likely.​


Actions—>Consequences


----------



## FeXL

Further on the fine folk attempting to derail Kavanaugh.

"The Big One:" Will This Be the Next Insane Allegation That Sinks Kavanaugh?!!

The New York Times Was Preparing Yet Another Hit-Piece on Kavanaugh, This Time Alleging That He Was Responsible for _Organizing a Beach Week Party_, But Mollie Hemingway Scoops Them and Delivers All the Scarifying Details

A _Beach Week Party_?  The horror...

Democrat Media Complex Is, Get This, Shrieking Over Trump's Correct Statement That a Woman Who Has Enormous Memory Gaps Has Enormous Memory Gaps

Blasey's Ex-Long-Term Boyfriend: I Personally Saw Blasey Coach a Friend on How to Take a Polygraph Test


----------



## FeXL

Move on. Nothing to see here...

Christine Blasey-Ford Friend In Delaware Was Career FBI Agent and Likely Together During Accusation Letter Construct…



> So we have Dr. Blasey-Ford in Rehoboth Beach, DE, on 26th July 2018. We’ve got her life-long BFF, Monica L McLean, who worked as attorney and POI in the DOJ/FBI in Rehoboth Beach, DE…. Apparently at same time she wrote letter to Senator Dianne Feinstein.
> 
> Ms. Blasey-Ford and Ms. McLean, the BFF she coached on lie detector testing, together for the four days leading up to the actual writing of the letter. July 26th to July 30th.
> 
> It would appear that Ms. Blasey-Ford was with Ms. Monica L McLean, the retired FBI agent and former New York field office spokesperson, at the time she wrote the letter to Senator Feinstein.
> 
> That would certainly begin to explain quite a bit about who exactly was handling Ms. Ford; and how there would be an intentional effort, from a subject matter expert, on how to best position the attack against Brett Kavanaugh.
> 
> *Who better to help scrub the internet history, and know what processes and people to enlist in such preparatory work, than a retired lawyer who worked deeply inside the FBI?
> 
> Not only did Ms. McLean possesses a particular set of skills to assist Ms. Ford, but Ms. McLean would also have a network of DOJ and FBI resources to assist in the endeavor. A former friendly FBI agent to do the polygraph; a network of politically motivated allies?*


Yeah, my bold.

Questions, questions, questions...

Hey, Freddie, found s'more "memes":

(theo4-19 knocks it out of the park for me)


----------



## FeXL

If Canuckistan had a real leader, this is what they'd say in principal, too.

The Morning Rant: J.V. Edition



> 242 years ago we told the British Empire to bugger off. They were the greatest naval power in the world, and had armies all over the globe. Why did we send that message? because the people of this fledgling country did not like being told what to do by unelected rulers three thousand miles away.
> 
> So I have a message for the International Court of justice (Hah!) and the United Nations; Bugger Off.
> 
> We are a sovereign nation that has the absolute unequivocal right to defend our national interests against all who would threaten them, and Iran is a particularly egregious example. It is a country that by all objective evaluations is the foremost promoter and supporter of terrorism in the world. Iran has, through its internal terrorist networks and its external proxies, murdered hundreds of Americans and supplied the technology and material to kill hundreds of American soldiers. It foments insurrection and instability wherever it goes, and has as its stated national goals the destruction of "Great Satan" (America) and "Little Satan" (Israel).
> 
> *The United Nations and its various courts are nothing but apologists for third-world revolutionaries, and any country that displays antipathy toward the West and its obviously superior culture is immediately supported with funds and coddled in UN and court official pronouncements and holdings.
> 
> It is a farce*, and the breathtaking arrogance that would allow them to attempt to dictate to the United States of America is disgusting, though not unexpected. To paraphrase Stalin, "How many divisions does the UN have?" [Not counting its military organizations that specialize in child rape]


M'bold.

Too kind by half.

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Even the Muslims are playing!

American Imam Deletes Post After Suggesting Sharia Law Should Apply In Weighing Dr. Ford Allegations



> Imam Zaid Shakir, the Muslim-American co-founder of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, California deleted a post on his popular Facebook page after receiving backlash for suggesting Sharia law should be applied in judging if Dr. Christine Blasey Ford's allegations against Judge Brett Kavanaugh are credible.


Hey, Freddie, here's s'more memes for ya!

(BTW, Freddie, the last one is actually a meme. It puts into sharp relief the fact that Dems truly are a product of their past, despite all protestations to the contrary. You may wish to remind CM...)


----------



## FeXL

I post this link for two reasons:
1. First, to show Soro's connection to the potential pot industry in New Mexico.
2. To illustrate that many of the myths about the legalization of pot are a crock. Eg., windfalls of tax revenue, no increase in minor use, reduces the black market for drugs, DUI's & fatalities won't rise with the legalization of pot, among other things.

Soros, Pot, and New Mexico



> Efforts to convince New Mexicans to legalize recreational pot have been especially intense and well funded. After losing the legislature and the governorship, Democratic interests have set their sights on this year's election candidates, hoping to turn the state reefer blue.
> 
> Local newspapers have been relentlessly reporting on polls claiming that most New Mexicans support the legalization of pot. The most recent story (the third this year) on yet another survey conducted by Albuquerque-based Research & Polling, Inc. (RPI) headlined that nearly 2:1 New Mexicans back legalized marijuana.
> 
> New Mexicans are being hoodwinked.


More:



> Public relations and advertising firms use polls and surveys to create the "bandwagon effect" and take advantage of people's natural tendencies to get behind ideas that are seen as popular. *People instinctively feel more comfortable believing what they think everyone else thinks and being part of the "in" crowd.*


M'bold.

I guess if you're a spineless Prog...


----------



## FeXL

Ace still knocking them outta the park.

I'd say language warning but, if you weren't offended by MAD's (Media-Academia-Democrats) treatment of Kavanaugh, then a little rough language ain't gonna bother ya, either.

CNN: Accusing Someone of Gang Rape is Just Regular Political Wrasslin', Says Former Obama Aide Jim Sciutto

Well, I surely hope Sciutto's nearly as cavalier about the situation when the tables are turned on some poor, unsuspecting Prog schmuck. Whether it's him, a Prog politician, a lefty SCJ nominee or anybody else flying that blue banner.

LOL: "Key Republicans Happy" With FBI Report on Kavanaugh



> For further proof of that, look to Concealer of Chinese Spy Rings Diane Feinstein, who tells us "the most important part of the report is what's not in it."
> 
> Really?
> 
> The Senate Judiciary Committee itself responded to that:
> 
> _*By "what's not in it," Ranking Member @SenFeinstein must be referring to the total lack of corroborating evidence.* https://t.co/MyB6ZAtkjb
> — Senate Judiciary (@senjudiciary) October 4, 2018_​


Yeppers.

Republican Press Conference: We're Heading Over to Boofy Bart's, He's Throwin' a Rager Tonight, There's Gonna Be Eight Hundred Kegs and Schoolchildren Dressed in Wreathes of Dangerous Mexican Fireworks



> Meanwhile... "conservative columnist" feels a twitchy kind of feeling.
> 
> _This is the closest she’s come to orgasm in decades. She’s even making typos. https://t.co/WCW0K4ZxB4
> — David Reaboi (@davereaboi) October 4, 2018_​


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes. Those compassionate, intellectual, measured Progs.

AMERICAN PSYCHO: DEMOCRAT DOXXER THREATENED TO REVEAL _SENATORS' CHILDREN'S HEALTH INFORMATION_



> I thought he "merely" revealed their home addresses so that they could be harassed or shot like Steve Scalise.
> 
> Oh no. Oh no no no.
> 
> This isn't your father's Democrat Party anymore, honey.
> 
> _A Democratic congressional intern accused of publishing the private information of at least three Republican lawmakers allegedly threatened to leak senators' childrens' health information if a witness told anyone about his activities.
> 
> Jackson Cosko, who recently worked as an unpaid intern for Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, was arrested for allegedly posting the personal information (or "doxxing") of a number of senators including Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah on Wikipedia -- with information such as their home addresses and phone numbers. Graham, Lee and Hatch's information was published on Thursday.
> 
> According to a sworn statement by Capitol Police Captain Jason Bell, a witness Tuesday saw Cosko at a computer in a senator's office, where he used to work, a day after two other unnamed senators' information had been put on Wikipedia. Cosko is then alleged to have walked out, and hours later the witness received an email from "[email protected]" saying: "If you tell anyone I will leak it all. Emails signal conversations gmails. Senators children's health information and social [security numbers].”_​
> If Republicans sounded pissed at that press conference -- they are.
> 
> I've heard from sources that they all are really pissed, including the Abortion Twins. They are tired of the media hunting them and berating them at every moment. They are tired of the media always having cameras on them to encourage "protesters" to start yelling that them.


They want civil war? Bring it.

#WokeLindseyGraham Update



> I know everyone knows about this, but whatever, I'm super-tired, and this is a thing which can be linked in two seconds.
> 
> _[email protected] to protestor yelling Kav should take polygraph: “we’ve humiliated this guy enough, and there seems to be no bottom for some of you.”
> 
> Protestor: “If he took a polygraph –”
> 
> Graham: “Why don’t we dunk him in the water and see if he floats?” pic.twitter.com/2WOX2HNDRd
> — The Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) October 4, 2018_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump reminds us of his ****e show, as he boards AF1 this morning, with toilet paper stuck to his shoe

https://twitter.com/altuspresssec/status/1048146206260711425?s=21


----------



## Macfury

I think that's an abandoned leaflet from another underattended Democrat protest rally.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump reminds us of his ****e show, as he boards AF1 this morning, with toilet paper stuck to his shoe
> 
> https://twitter.com/altuspresssec/status/1048146206260711425?s=21


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I think that's an abandoned leaflet from another underattended Democrat protest rally.


Is there blood on it? Antifa...

I find it interesting that neither Freddie, nor any of the other Progs on this board, have commented on the real ss, Kavanaugh's nomination.


----------



## FeXL

Most of JJ Sefton's Morning Report is on Kavanuagh today.

Related:

Thanks to the Valorous Service of Democrats on the Senate Judicary Committee, We Can Now Conclusively Say The Devil's Triangle Is In Fact a Drinking Game, and "Boof" Does In Fact Mean "Fart"

Related, too:

(Hey, Freddie, couple memes for ya here, among the political cartoons. I especially like the Lib1 one. If a man had pinned Feinstein against the wall like that, she would have screamed, "Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaape!!!", no? Curious, that...)


----------



## FeXL

Top FBI Lawyer's "Explosive" Testimony: The FBI Received "Abnormal" Tips from a Former DOJ Lawyer Now Working At, Get This, Perkins Coie, the Hillary Clinton/DNC/Fusion GPS Law Firm



> _Former top FBI lawyer James Baker gave "explosive" closed-door testimony on Wednesday detailing for congressional investigators how the Russia probe was handled in an "abnormal fashion" reflecting "political bias," according to two Republican lawmakers present for the deposition.
> 
> "Some of the things that were shared were explosive in nature," Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., told Fox News. "This witness confirmed that things were done in an abnormal fashion. That's extremely troubling."_​


----------



## FeXL

Senate Votes 51 to 49 to Advance Kavanaugh to Final Vote
Murkowski Votes "No" to End Debate
Collins, Flake, and Manchin Vote "Yes"



> She's probably a "no" on the actual confirmation _unless_ her game is to vote no on cloture and yes on the confirmation. Which is very unusual, but then, she's unusual: She's a liberal pretending to be a Republican.
> 
> I think it's a little more possible than most people are saying that her vote is a strategic one, where she'll say "I wanted _more time_ to investigate" but will vote "Yes" on Saturday (or Sunday).


Related:

Witness Told FBI That Ford's 'Allies' Pressured Her To Change Story, Report Says



> A woman that Christine Blasey Ford claimed was at the party where Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh allegedly assaulted her circa 1982 told FBI investigators that Dr. Ford's "allies" tried to pressure her to change her story about what happened.
> 
> Leland Keyser told investigators that Ford's friend, former FBI agent Monica McLean, had urged her to alter the original statement that she gave about not remembering any such party and not knowing Kavanaugh, _The Wall Street Journal_ reported.
> 
> The Journal noted that Keyser's statement to the FBI offered "a glimpse into how Dr. Ford’s allies were working behind the scenes to lobby old classmates to bolster their versions of the alleged incident."


Huh. The Clinton News Network reporting this? No?

Shocka...


----------



## Macfury

Kavanaugh is in and Trump keeps winning!


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Kavanaugh is in and Trump keeps winning!


New York Times editors are taking it in stride and are laser-focussed on finding lessons on how to win future political battles.

Just kidding. They printed a racist rant rooted in "social justice" ideology.

White Women, Come Get Your People
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/lisa-murkowski-susan-collins-kavanaugh.html



> After a confirmation process where women all but slit their wrists, letting their stories of sexual trauma run like rivers of blood through the Capitol, the Senate still voted to confirm Judge Brett M.


That's how it starts. It gets worse.


----------



## Macfury

That sets a new low for the NYT. She's a Democrat strategist, so clearly this is how they want to shape the mid-term election. It's hard for me to figure the effect of that sort of trash, since the NYT no longer speaks to any audience on the centre or right of it. it would certainly galvanize me to vote Republican.



Beej said:


> New York Times editors are taking it in stride and are laser-focussed on finding lessons on how to win future political battles.
> 
> Just kidding. They printed a racist rant rooted in "social justice" ideology.
> 
> White Women, Come Get Your People
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/lisa-murkowski-susan-collins-kavanaugh.html
> 
> 
> 
> That's how it starts. It gets worse.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

What a leader.


----------



## Macfury

Welcome to the team, Freddie! It takes a big person to admit that the left has simply become too extreme.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Welcome to the team, Freddie! It takes a big person to admit that the left has simply become too extreme.




Uh no. That tweet pretty much mocks itself. Trump is an idiot. He thinks he only needs to represent half the country.


----------



## Macfury

Like Obama represented conservatives?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh no. That tweet pretty much mocks itself. Trump is an idiot. He thinks he only needs to represent half the country.


----------



## Macfury

Keep 'em coming Freddie! Those heartwarming moments when Obama "reached out" to the rest of the electorate. "Reaching out" is only what progs demand when they are dealt a severe blow at the ballot box.


----------



## FeXL

Which is about 30% more than Mr Dressup does...



Freddie_Biff said:


> He thinks he only needs to represent half the country.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Kavanaugh is in and Trump keeps winning!


Woohoo! Found out last night upon returning from the cabin. No TV, no cell service, no wifi, didn't bother turning on the radio save a classic rock station with no news.

A relaxing coupla days with no distractions except for watching the sum come up, watching the sun go down and having a few craft beers in between.

On a side note, there's a new ad running in Montana about the Border Patrol Union (or some such) that is endorsing the Dem candidate, Jon Tester, for senate. The ad notes that Tester supported funding for the Border patrol and they figger that's a good thing. The punch line is that (paraphrasing) the Border Patrol supports Trump and Tester. Again, there is no mention of the fact that Tester is Dem and it's clear that he is running a campaign of obfuscation on Trump's popularity.

There have been a few scattered Tester signs up most of the summer. For the first time, this weekend we saw signs up for Matt Rosendale, the Rep candidate. Also saw a couple signs up that noted, "Tester Lies". Don't know the story there.

On that note, have a couple more "memes" for Freddie:


----------



## FeXL

And the balance:


----------



## FeXL

Just in case there were any questions.

One Ford Narrative Too Many



> In the end, the Christine Blasey Ford accusations collapsed. With them went the last effort to destroy Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to the United States Supreme Court.
> 
> After thousands of hours of internal Senate and FBI investigations of Kavanaugh, as well as public discussions, open questioning, and media sensationalism, Ford remained unable to identify a single witness who might substantiate any of her narratives of an alleged sexual assault of nearly four decades past.
> 
> To substantiate her claim, the country was asked to jettison the idea of innocent until proven guilty, the need for corroborating testimony, witnesses, and physical evidence, the inadmissibility of hearsay, the need for reasonable statutes of limitations, considerations of motive, and the right of the accused to conduct vigorous cross-examination. That leap proved too much, especially when located in a larger progressive landscape of street theater antics, including Senate disruptions, walkouts, and sandbagging senators in hallways and elevators.
> 
> At the end of all things, Ford remained scarcely knowledgeable about the location and time of the assault than she was months earlier in her original anonymous complaint. Nor could she yet describe how she arrived at or left the party that may or may not have taken place in 1982. That Ford retained a crystal-clear account of having consumed just one beer and that Kavanaugh played the Hollywood role of a cruel, smirking, drunken, and privileged preppy groper were sensational accusations but not supportable.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

Nikki Haley resigns as UN ambassador, stays mum on next move



> Nikki Haley abruptly announced her resignation Tuesday as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, catching staff and lawmakers by surprise and leaving Washington guessing about the next move for one of the administration's most prominent figures.
> 
> Speaking in the Oval Office alongside President Trump, who accepted the resignation, Haley said she would serve through the end of 2018. She preemptively sought to mute speculation she might run against her old boss, stressing that she will support Trump and will not campaign for the White House in 2020.


And disappointing. She was doing a standup job at the UN.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Hilariously ill-chosen. Zappa then went on to excoriate people who had prayed for the "death of a Supreme Court Justice."

Sounds like the prog Democrats to me!

This is what you get for thinking that Frank Zappa is worth quoting in a political context. He'd be laughing his ass off at you!


----------



## SINC

Agreed. That is the result of trying to impose three decade old memes into today's events.


----------



## eMacMan

When you look at the Constitutional Massacre, beginning as far back as Reagan, it is clear that America's greatest enemy is at the peak of the pyramid and it matters not one iota as to the stripe pattern on the back of the skunk.


----------



## FeXL

No $h!t, Sherlock...

Hillary: Allegations Against Bill Different Than Ones Against Trump, Kavanaugh



> Two-time failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton made head-scratching remarks in a new interview with CNN while defending her husband against the allegations of sexual misconduct that he has faced over the years.


----------



## Beej

Reporting on an interesting study.

Americans Strongly Dislike PC Culture
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...orities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/


> On social media, the country seems to divide into two neat camps: Call them the woke and the resentful. Team Resentment is manned—pun very much intended—by people who are predominantly old and almost exclusively white. Team Woke is young, likely to be female, and predominantly black, brown, or Asian (though white “allies” do their dutiful part). These teams are roughly equal in number, and they disagree most vehemently, as well as most routinely, about the catchall known as political correctness.
> 
> Reality is nothing like this.


This is consistent with what I've observed about the big online conflicts over the years. Most news media gets it wrong and always with the same bias.


----------



## SINC

Yep. 

Obama administration was corrupt, more and more evidence reveals daily

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Yep.
> 
> Obama administration was corrupt, more and more evidence reveals daily


It's nice to see that the MSM is finally catching on to what us deplorables have known for years.


----------



## CubaMark

_American democracy in action?_

*Shuttered Polling Sites Cast Shadow Over Midterm Elections*










A small Georgia county made national headlines last week when news broke that local election officials planned to close seven of nine polling sites in the overwhelmingly African-American jurisdiction.

After an uproar, Randolph county’s sites were saved, but that outcome is the exception, not the rule, in such cases.

“Too often, these are intentional acts of voter suppression led by racial animus,” Laura Grace, the Election Project Manager with the Lawyer’s Committee on Civil Rights, told WhoWhatWhy by email.

Most shuttered polling sites don’t receive national attention. In Georgia alone, local officials have closed more than 200 sites since 2012. The Georgia examples figure in a growing national trend, with stark implications for the upcoming midterm elections, reports the Pew Charitable Trust.

Local leadership has closed nearly 1,000 sites nationwide since the Supreme Court struck down key provisions of the Voting Rights Act in its 2013 decision in Shelby County v. Eric Holder.

(WhoWhatWhy)​


----------



## Macfury

I would make sure these polling stations are open--black voters are breaking for Trump!


----------



## FeXL

Woohoo!

Bill's Wife Loses Her Security Clearance!!!

Security Clearances for Hillary Clinton, Cheryl Mills, and 4 Others Withdrawn



> *Supposedly she asked for her security clearance to be canceled.*
> 
> I don't believe that. Or: She asked for it to be canceled when she was told it was going to be canceled.


M'bold.

Riiiiiiiiight... Have I got a bridge to sell you.

Two years overdue.

More:



> _At her request lol. Wink wink. https://t.co/OrPKm5ZdnL
> — #FreeEarth (@LinWaWa00) October 12, 2018_​


Exactly.


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> _ To be clear: Australian media is reporting on air that “the professor”, Joseph Mifsud, the man who told me about “Clinton’s emails”, was not a Russian agent, but a British agent. If this is confirmed, this is the biggest scandal in modern political history.
> 
> — George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) October 12, 2018_​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> Bill's Wife Loses Her Security Clearance!!!
> 
> Security Clearances for Hillary Clinton, Cheryl Mills, and 4 Others Withdrawn


They cleared their security? Like with a cloth?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They cleared their security? Like with a cloth?


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Wiped the sucka clean!!!

Funny, I ran across a comment yesterday that asked a very similar question.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the compassionate, intellectual, moderate left.

Hillary Clinton Is Dangerous



> Many Americans have been wondering when the Democrats are finally going to calm down and accept the will of the voters as expressed in the 2016 election. Hillary Clinton provided the answer Tuesday afternoon — never. She clearly believes that Republican control of Congress or the Presidency is, by definition, illegitimate and must be resisted by any means necessary. During an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour she said, “[Y]ou cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for.” She went on to say that “civility can start again” when the Democrats regain control of the government.
> 
> She declared, in other words, that the peaceful transfer of power which has long been the hallmark of our system of government now applies only when her side wins and that she won’t stop stoking unrest until the “deplorables” learn their place: “But until then,” she said, “the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength.” By “strength” she means “violence,” as experienced by Republicans Steve Scalise and Rand Paul. *The last time leading Democrats utilized such irresponsible language was in 1860, when their refusal to accept the result of an election caused a war that got 600,000 Americans killed.*


M'bold.

Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

The unfortunate thing is, she's just a patsy for the big-leaguers.

Think Stephen Miller’s third-grade teacher wishes she’d kept her big mouth shut NOW?



> As Twitchy told you, earlier this week, the Hollywood Reporter joined forces with Stephen Miller’s third-grade teacher for a despicable hit job on the Trump senior policy adviser.
> 
> The Hollywood Reporter got an earful for that, but Miller’s former teacher also took a well deserved beating. And now, it seems, she’s gotten a well deserved punishment:


I'll believe in justice when Bill's Wife (among a host of others) go to jail for fomenting violence.


----------



## FeXL

When the left does it...

Manchin’s Failure to Report $700K D.C. Yacht Sparks Call for Probe From Watchdog



> A government watchdog group is calling for a probe into Joe Manchin's (D., W.V.) failure to report ownership of a limited liability company that holds a $700,000 yacht he lives on while he is in Washington, D.C.
> 
> A complaint was filed to the Senate Select Committee on Ethics Thursday by the Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust (FACT), a D.C.-based ethics watchdog organization, alleging that Manchin violated Senate Ethics Rules in relation to financial disclosures.


More:



> Kendra Arnold, the executive director of FACT, said that *Manchin has a history of evasive financial dealings and called his failure to report "reckless and irresponsible."*
> 
> "Senator Manchin has a history of being evasive when it comes to his financial dealings and interests, which only raises more serious and troubling questions about what he is hiding, and how much, from the government and more importantly, the citizens of West Virginia," Arnold said.


Yeah, my bold.

Ya don't say...


----------



## FeXL

So, Fauxcahontas is even more fake than she claims.

Elizabeth Warren Proudly Releases Test Results Proving She Has _Less_ Indian DNA Than the Average Non-Indian White Person



> Yes, less Indian DNA than non-Indian white people, such as herself.
> 
> _As The Federalist's Sean Davis points out, according to The New York Times, the average white person in America has nearly double the amount of American Indian DNA (0.18%) as Elizabeth Warren (0.098%), who claims to be Cherokee. Then there is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The credulous reporter who wrote the Warren DNA piece didn't do the math correctly (and this is before getting into why the particular test, which didn't even use American Indian DNA to compare, was garbage). Six generations removed is 1/64. Ten removed is 1/1024 (0.098%).
> — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) October 15, 2018
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The credulous reporter who wrote the Warren DNA piece didn't do the math correctly (and this is before getting into why the particular test, which didn't even use American Indian DNA to compare, was garbage). Six generations removed is 1/64. Ten removed is 1/1024 (0.098%).
> 
> *I don’t much care about Warren's ethnicity, but she is not, in any genuine sense, a racial or ethnic minority. Not in blood. Not in experience. Under her standards, how many Americans would qualify as Native American? Or put it this way: is being 1/1,024th African enough to claim “minority” status in a professional setting? I'm asking for the liberals who believe race-based hiring is an important means of facilitating diversity and ensuring fairness.*_​


Yeah, bold mine.

A similar question from AoS The Morning Rant:



> "So the big news, other than antifa pretty much taking over the city of Portland while the mayor just sits there with his thumb up his butt, and Hillary openly calling for violence against her political enemies, is that Elizabeth 'Fauxcahontas' Warren has released the results of her DNA test, and, get this, her Amerindian DNA content is variously estimated at 1/64th, 1/512th, or 1/1024th of the total. That's some mighty small percentages, if you ask me. Of course historically, Democrats have used the one-drop rule to determine a person's racial identity, so she might as well see if she can cut herself a deal for some of that sweet, sweet casino money. *But my question is, since progressives and the media (BIRM) now accept DNA results (no matter how infinitesimally small) to determine ethnic identity, how about we use a similar blood test to determine gender identity? Seems fair, right? After all, if there are 642 different genders (643 if you count the one with the chicken feathers and toilet plunger), we'd obviously need a lot of blood work done to make the final determination. But we could do it, and no more guessing. Because science.*"


Yeah, m'bold, too.

Good by me.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> So, Fauxcahontas is even more fake than she claims.
> 
> Elizabeth Warren Proudly Releases Test Results Proving She Has _Less_ Indian DNA Than the Average Non-Indian White Person


I would have kept my mouth shut if I had received results like that. But she has no shame, apparently.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I would have kept my mouth shut if I had received results like that. But she has no shame, apparently.


Progs? Shame?

Hell, they think hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug!


----------



## FeXL

When even the Progs want to jettison you...

Left Turns on Hillary After ‘Tone-Deaf’ Comments on Lewinsky



> *I may be in the minority, but I don’t want failed Democrat presidential candidate Hillary Clinton to shut up because the more she talks, the more people shed her.*
> 
> Hillary may have put the final nail in her coffin on Sunday when she said her husband’s affair with Monica Lewinsky was not an abuse of power or a reason to resign.
> 
> Those comments shocked many, but now the left has turned on her. Publications like Think Progress, The Guardian, and Vanity Fair published scathing articles taking Hillary to town over her comments.


M'bold.

I agree, but for a different reason: The more she talks, the more truth comes out about Progs as a whole and the more people shed the compassionate, intellectual left, period.

You go, girl!

:clap::clap::clap:

The interview in question:

Hillary Says Bill Clinton’s White House Affair Was Not an ‘Abuse of Power’



> Failed 2016 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said the affair her husband, Bill Clinton, had with White House intern Monica Lewinsky years ago wasn’t an abuse of power — because the then-22-year-old Lewinsky was an adult.
> 
> She made these stunning comments in an interview on “CBS Sunday,” as Deadline and other outlets reported.
> Advertisement
> 
> In the 1990s Hillary Clinton stood by her husband, then-President Bill Clinton, as he denied allegations of sexual harassment and assault.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fauxcahontas.

Elizabeth Warren Jokes Fly: Sen. Hatch Says He's '1/1032 T-Rex'



> The absurdity of Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) making a big deal out her minuscule Native American heritage continues to reverberate on Twitter.
> 
> Sen. Orrin Hatch tweeted, "These DNA tests are quite something." He joked that he is 1/1032 T-Rex: "The rest: other dinosaurs."
> 
> The Onion retweeted: "Elizabeth Warren Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material."


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

And, from the land of Fruits & Nuts...

California’s Gas-Tax Repeal Campaign Cites ‘Epic’ Levels of Taxpayer Waste and Abuse

First off:



> Southern California gas prices remain at their highest in three years, averaging $3.83 a gallon in Orange County and $3.88 a gallon in the Los Angeles-Long Beach area, according to the Auto Club of Southern California. That's nearly a $1 more than the national average of $2.91 a gallon.


At a buck-30 exchange rate & a smaller US gallon, that makes it about $1.33/litre, around what we've been paying locally for gasoline most of the summer. And what do Canadians do? Fill our tanks, hunch our shoulders over & shuffle to the pay window, hat, ass, overshoes & first born male in hand...

More:



> Organizers for the campaign to repeal California's latest gas-tax increase are hitting back at opponents who say eliminating the tax hike would pose a danger to public safety by cutting funding for road and bridge projects across the state.
> 
> Carl DeMaio, who is spearheading the gas-tax repeal proposition, says that *Democratic lawmakers in Sacramento have long misused previous gas-tax funds and are now asking the state's taxpayers to pay some of the highest gas prices in the nation to continue funding the government largesse.*


M'bold.

'Course! Gotta pay for all those illegal aliens some way...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk that Blue Wave some.

New poll shows Democrat Shalala trailing GOP opponent in a district Trump lost badly



> Donna Shalala may be in trouble.
> 
> Shalala, a Democrat running in a district that President Donald Trump lost by nearly 20 percentage points in 2016, is trailing Republican TV journalist Maria Elvira Salazar by 2 percentage points in a Mason Dixon-Telemundo 51 poll. The independent poll’s margin of error was 4 percentage points and included a pro-Trump non-party candidate who could siphon votes from Salazar.


Related:

Democrats Advised Not to Speak About Unpopular Open Borders Policies: ‘It Is Very Difficult to Win on Immigration’

Democrats in Heated Races Mum on Progressive Tax Details

Curious, that...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Knew this would come in handy...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Knew this would come in handy...


:lmao:

That's some kind of *ist, but I forgot my lines. Waiting for the update patch.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Share the wealth? 










 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...9-hurricane-matthew-n-funds-article-1.3156282


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Share the wealth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> North Carolina asks for $929M in Hurricane Matthew recovery, Trump administration offers $6M  - NY Daily News



The end of the linked article says "So far, North Carolina has secured $1.4 billion in state and federal funds for Hurricane Matthew recovery." So they have gotten a bit more then 6 million dollars from the government. 

I am sure they need all the money they can get, but it has to come from somewhere. The article does not give a lot of detail, but if they already secured 1.4 billion in state and federal funds are they just asking for more from the same people they already got 1.4 billion? I would be curious to know comparisons of money given for other weather related catastrophes.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Knew this would come in handy...


Related:

What Is the ‘NPC’ Meme? Liberals Rage at Cartoons Mocking Their Scripted Thoughts



> The new “NPC” meme mocks leftists by depicting them as unthinking and reflexive automatons. The meme has upset the left so much that Twitter is now banning people posting it for “dehumanizing speech,” but its humble origins are the computer-controlled characters of limited intelligence found in most video games.


Doesn't sound like anybody on these boards at all... 

Related, too, from the compassionate, intellectual, perpetually-offended left.

Twitter suspended 1,500 accounts that were using the NPC meme as their avatar.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

So essentially they got piles of money, but did not get every dollar they asked for. Actually reading the articles is a drag, so Freddie just scans headlines, so he never knew this. Inexplicably, this one is from 2017, but clearly it's still tugging at Freddie's heart strings.



wonderings said:


> The end of the linked article says "So far, North Carolina has secured $1.4 billion in state and federal funds for Hurricane Matthew recovery." So they have gotten a bit more then 6 million dollars from the government.
> 
> I am sure they need all the money they can get, but it has to come from somewhere. The article does not give a lot of detail, but if they already secured 1.4 billion in state and federal funds are they just asking for more from the same people they already got 1.4 billion? I would be curious to know comparisons of money given for other weather related catastrophes.


----------



## eMacMan

Here's one that is definitely bi-partisan. Could represent over 90% of the US senators running for re-election.


----------



## FeXL

Plant or not, you said it...

Sen. Claire McCaskill Accuses Her Opponent Of Planting Someone In Her Campaign



> Missouri Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill accused Missouri Attorney General Josh Hawley on Tuesday of planting someone in her campaign in response an undercover Project Veritas video that revealed her beliefs on the Second Amendment.


More:



> McCaskill is set to square off against Hawley in one of the tightest races leading up to the November midterms. The most recent poll average at RealClearPolitics has her and Hawley less than a point apart.


Oh, it'd be saweet to see her get her McAss handed to her in 3 weeks...

Related:

Oh, Claire



> _ UNDERCOVER REPORT: McCaskill's pro-border security ads mislead voters, her staff says "Claire is not in favor of building the wall at all, she’s said that’s a really f***ing stupid idea." FULL: https://t.co/rEXAWlKzsE pic.twitter.com/rJMdjWEBbs
> — James O'Keefe (@JamesOKeefeIII) October 16, 2018_​


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> So essentially they got piles of money, but did not get every dollar they asked for. Actually reading the articles is a drag, so Freddie just scans headlines, so he never knew this. Inexplicably, this one is from 2017, but clearly it's still tugging at Freddie's heart strings.


I did a quick google search for how much money was given to New Orleans and looks like it was 2 billion from the Feds. FEMA also gave 1.2 billion after that. Not sure of the source, it was taken from the first web page after a search

https://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/in_historic_accord_fema_to_pay.html

I do not know how the damages compare but seems financially to be getting close to the same.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> I did a quick google search for how much money was given to New Orleans and looks like it was 2 billion from the Feds. FEMA also gave 1.2 billion after that. Not sure of the source, it was taken from the first web page after a search
> 
> https://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/in_historic_accord_fema_to_pay.html
> 
> I do not know how the damages compare but seems financially to be getting close to the same.


Saw a report somewhere that rated Mathew as the 3rd worst of all time. Interestingly Katrina was not mentioned in their top 5. That said I would suggest that Katrina packed as big a punch and did a lot more damage.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I did a quick google search for how much money was given to New Orleans and looks like it was 2 billion from the Feds. FEMA also gave 1.2 billion after that. Not sure of the source, it was taken from the first web page after a search
> 
> https://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/in_historic_accord_fema_to_pay.html
> 
> I do not know how the damages compare but seems financially to be getting close to the same.


New Orleans had basically pissed away much of the money it had previously been given to secure infrastructure, shore up levees, etc. Katrina did far more damage because the infrastructure money had been squandered.


----------



## FeXL

LOL



> *Hillary Clinton drives as well as she navigates stairs.*
> 
> _LIVE LOOK at @HillaryClinton trying to save @SenatorMenendez. (Spoiler alert: she crashes.) #NJSen pic.twitter.com/7poUpIYxl6
> — The Senate Majority (@NRSC) October 16, 2018_​


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fauxcahontas.

Pink Slip

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Nope. Not a chance. There is no way that we can be held accountable for fomenting violence, even when it ends up in violence. 

No way.

Minnesota Democrat Party Suspends (Not Fires) Party Official For Encouraging Political Violence After Two Republicans Are Physically Attacked



> _The Minnesota Democratic Party has suspended a spokesman for calling for violence against Republicans even as two GOP candidates have been assaulted in suspected politically motivated attacks.
> 
> The Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party has suspended communications staffer William Davis for one week without pay after making a Facebook post joking that Democrats would "bring [Republicans] to the guillotine" on Nov. 7, the day after the midterm elections. Minnesota Republican Party chairman Jennifer Carnahan said the suspension was not enough, calling for his immediate firing in the aftermath of separate attacks against Republican candidates. She said she has been subjected to numerous death threats during her tenure as the state party leader and that death threats are no laughing matter._​
> The rest of the article talks about the violence.
> 
> Week's suspension. Wow.


Probably didn't pull his pay, either.


----------



## FeXL

Judge "Shocked" at State Department Providing "Clearly False" Statements to Avoid Disclosing Documents Related to Clinton Email Investigation



> I'm shocked that he's shocked, to be honest.
> 
> _In a combative exchange at a hearing Friday in Washington, D.C., a federal judge unabashedly accused career State Department officials of lying and signing "clearly false" affidavits to derail a series of lawsuits seeking information about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email server and her handling of the 2012 terrorist attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.
> 
> U.S. District Court Judge Royce Lamberth said he was "shocked" and "dumbfounded" when he learned that FBI had granted immunity to former Clinton chief of staff Cheryl Mills during its investigation into the use of Clinton's server, according to a court transcript of his remarks.
> 
> "I had myself found that Cheryl Mills had committed perjury and lied under oath in a published opinion I had issued in a Judicial Watch case where I found her unworthy of belief, and I was quite shocked to find out she had been given immunity in -- by the Justice Department in the Hillary Clinton email case," Lamberth said during Friday's hearing._​
> Lamberth rules against a motion to dismiss a lawsuit against the State Department, citing the fact that they have lied and lied and lied about searching for Clinton's emails, and other matters.


----------



## Beej

Whereas, this body has the legal authority to establish regulations regarding public communications,

Now, therefore, be it resolved that...

https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1052294024961372162


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Whereas, this body has the legal authority to establish regulations regarding public communications,
> 
> Now, therefore, be it resolved that...
> 
> https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1052294024961372162


The most salient part of that Tweet: "I have two daughters. I think it's a disgrace..."

This guy is way past his expiry date. The Democrat party and its media arm CNN have already thrown him under the bus.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fauxcahontas.

Perfumes of Arabia



> _Only in America does the nation's most prestigious law school hire a 100 per cent white female as its first 'woman of color' on the basis that she once mailed in the Duke of Windsor's favorite crab dish to a tribal cookbook. If the House of Windsor is now one of the five tribes, all America has to do is restore the monarchy, and the Queen will be your first 'woman of color' in the Oval Office._​


BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :lmao:


----------



## SINC

Interesting thoughts for Progs.


----------



## wonderings

Scary day in the US. Packages with bombs delivered to the Obama's, Clintons, CNN and some others. Thankfully none of them have gone off an no one was injured. I can't even imagine not being able to trust what is in my mail.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Packages with bombs delivered to the Obama's, Clintons, CNN and some others.


Huh. Attacks on lefties for a change. It'll be interesting to see how the MSM spins this, as opposed to how they utterly endorsed attacks on the right.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Scary day in the US. Packages with bombs delivered to the Obama's, Clintons, CNN and some others. Thankfully none of them have gone off an no one was injured. I can't even imagine not being able to trust what is in my mail.


This one is really fishy. I suspect an inside job from a helpful lefty who never intended any harm to the victims. Some interesting observations:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> This one is really fishy. I suspect an inside job from a helpful lefty who never intended any harm to the victims. Some interesting observations:


The more I read about this the more it looks to be a Dem false flag. 

VICTIM!!! CRAZY TRUMP!!! DON'T VOTE FOR HIM!!! VICTIM!!!!!

Comments on the next two links vary salient:

Da ‘Bombz’



> As noted by Scott Adams – if conservatives had sent the bombs they would have worked.


Pretty much.

ACME Prime



> I don’t believe a word of this, Dems love to play the victim card, almost as much as the race card..
> 
> ...
> 
> Cue the weepy-faced Wasserman-Schultz to be inconsolable over this “Alt.Right” attack
> 
> ...
> 
> Here’s my guess: He will initially be identified as a radically right wing Trump supporter, NRA member, with strong anti-immigration views. Then, his Facebook and Twitter feeds will out him as an Obama/Hillary/Bernie fanboy. Then, he will morph into a troubled loner suffering from an undiagnosed and untreated mental illness.
> 
> ...
> 
> Shipping in envelopes? Hand delivering them? Wiring the thing like it’s a flourescent bulb? Using addresses that no one but DNC people would most likely have? None of them worked?
> 
> If this does not profile as a democrat operation, I don’t what does. The only thing missing is a billion dollars in non-shovel ready jobs disappearing into the mist, and it would be like Hillary signature on the project.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> *For me the giveaway is the targets. Nobody on the right considers Clinton, Obama or CNN as threats. They’re clowns and has-beens. They’re the heroes and idols of the left, though, and the left isn’t capable of grasping that the right doesn’t see these people as Terribly Important.*


Bold mine.

Yeppers.

Further:

CNN Pounces, Seizes on Nonfunctional Bomb Scare As 17,883rd Reason Trump Must Never Dare Criticize CNN as "Fake News"



> A politically-poisoned Democrat and Bernie Sanders supporter shot up seven Republican congressmen. CNN did not caution against overheated political rhetoric then, and certainly did not attempt to cool its own People Will Die rhetoric.
> 
> And, in fact, they removed that huge story from the front page within three days.
> 
> Think they'll be burying this story in three days?
> 
> This is a very cynical and anti-american corporate messaging operation, and a disgusting bit of demagoguery.
> 
> CNN has been making the claim that you can't criticize CNN every single opportunity it has received -- or contrived.
> 
> When a man who had been stalking and harassing the Capitol Gazette for seven years over a defamation lawsuit entered their offices and shot people, CNN declared this was all because of Trump's attacks on the media (meaning, CNN), and Trump must stop criticizing CNN as fake news or else People Will Die.
> 
> When a Saudi national, hooked up with the Muslim Brotherhood, was murdered by Saudi secret police, CNN declared that the Saudis must have felt they had a license to kill reporters, granted to them by Trump, because Trump had criticized CNN as Fake News and thus declared "open season" on reporters.
> 
> Therefore, CNN declared, Trump must no longer criticize CNN as Fake News. Or else -- People Will Die.
> 
> Now, once again, CNN is ginning up its corporate advertising/political agitation division to once again declare CNN the hero of the #Resistance which cannot be criticized by Trump as #FakeNews because, get this, if Trump criticizes them, People Will Die.
> 
> I'm detecting a pattern here.


----------



## Macfury

The articles I have read keep mentioning: "The FBI is investigating why the bombs did not detonate." My guess is that not one of them was designed to detonate.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The articles I have read keep mentioning: "The FBI is investigating why the bombs did not detonate." My guess is that not one of them was designed to detonate.




You would prefer that they had detonated?


----------



## Macfury

If you had intended this as some sort of a stinger, it was delivered with all of the clumsy-assed thoughtlessness you're known for.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You would prefer that they had detonated?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you had intended this as some sort of a stinger, it was delivered with all of the clumsy-assed thoughtlessness you're known for.




Can’t answer the question. Typical.


----------



## Macfury

Hey Freddie, when did you stop cheating on your wife?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Can’t answer the question. Typical.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey Freddie, when did you stop cheating on your wife?



What in Sam hell are you talking about? Seriously, you're starting to lose it, oldtimer.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, the references are all going over your head. I should have taken you at your word when you said that you never have time to explore ideas.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, the references are all going over your head. I should have taken you at your word when you said that you never have time to explore ideas.




A reference only works if both parties understand it. You think you’re funny, but I’m certainly not getting your humour. Either clarify or kindly shut up.


----------



## Macfury

When people have criticized some of the witless memes that you post, you simply declare that they're funny anyway--everyone else is to blame for not seeing their clever humour. 

You neither explain them or shut up.



Freddie_Biff said:


> A reference only works if both parties understand it. You think you’re funny, but I’m certainly not getting your humour. Either clarify or kindly shut up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey Freddie, when did you stop cheating on your wife?




In what world is this comment even remotely funny? Rude, yes. Funny, no. And you refuse to explain it. Game, set, match.


----------



## FeXL

Whooooosh...



Freddie_Biff said:


> In what world is this comment even remotely funny? Rude, yes. Funny, no. And you refuse to explain it. Game, set, match.


----------



## wonderings

It is pretty amazing that none of the 10 pipe bombs went off. Definitely a good thing but would have me question if they were indeed actually supposed to explode and if so was the terrorist just inept when it comes to making a bomb? I wonder how this will change the way mail is dealt with. Obviously they are not currently scanning packages being shipped via US Postal Service like they would in an airport. Will this lead in the name of security to more invasion into the freedoms of their citizens? I know if I was anyone in the public I would be looking different at every single piece of mail that came to me. CNN also had, albeit a very small article, about someone who sent some toxic/poisonous letter to Trump and again it was thankfully found before it reached anyone and could do any harm. 

https://flic.kr/p/29CLSi3


----------



## Macfury

If NONE of the bombs went off, I believe it was meant only to demonstrate a threat. I don't believe the packages were delivered in the post. Stamps are not canceled and several were known to be hand delivered. Also if delivered by USPS, they would not have arrived near simultaneously.


----------



## FeXL

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt anymore...

Hilariously Awful Claire McCaskill Radio Ad: She’s ‘not one of those crazy Democrats’



> This ad is so bad I wasn’t entirely sure if it was real or parody. Turns out, it’s real and McCaskill’s campaign probably paid someone good money for it, too.
> 
> The radio ad, which has been airing for about a year, attempts to paint Sen. McCaskill as a centrist Democrat and “not one of those crazy Democrats.”
> 
> You know it’s bad when a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat is trying to portray herself as anything but a Democrat.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Related:

'She's Going To Be Super Liberal': Heitkamp's Staff Expose Her In Undercover Sting Video



> James O'Keefe's Project Veritas released a new undercover video on Tuesday night showing vulnerable Sen. Heidi Heitkamp's (D-ND) campaign staff exposing her as being a far-left candidate while she has tried to portray herself as being centrist, saying, "when she gets elected she's going to be super liberal."
> 
> Jesse Overton, Hietkamp's Digital Director, described a bait and switch type of campaigning that Heitkamp is imploring, saying, "It's an election year for her. She's being careful about pissing people off, and it's funny, she said basically like, after the election, if and when she gets re-elected, she's going to be super liberal."
> 
> *When one of Project Veritas' undercover journalists visited Heitkamp’s Fargo, North Dakota campaign office, staffers admitted they take down posters of former President Barack Obama when the media is present because they want Heitkamp to appear as more moderate than she really is.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk pipe bombs s'more.

4Chan Trolls Mock 'False Flag' Bomb Scare By Making Parody 'Bombs' Of Their Own



> 4Chan trolls responded by sharing parody "bombs" of their own using the "Autist Cookbook" which they shared along with comments such as, "Just got this in the mail, I'm scared!"


Hilarious.

Can’t blame Trump for the pipe bombs



> What about Hillary Clinton?
> 
> Clinton was speaking in Florida shortly after the news of the bomb sent to her New York home broke. Clinton called for civility on political discourse.
> 
> Odd.
> 
> Earlier this month she told CNN in an interview that there was no room for civility unless Democrats were in charge.
> 
> “You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about,” Clinton said “That’s why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that’s when civility can start again.”
> 
> So civility can only happen if the left is in charge?
> 
> Maxine Waters is also a target of this serial bomber and she is giving interviews blaming Trump’s rhetoric. Yet earlier this year she encouraged her supporters to harass members of the Trump administration any time they are out in public.


Gotta love the hypocrisy.

Related:

Yesterday, The New York Times Published Five (Awful) Fiction Pieces About How the Trump Presidency Would End.
One Naturally Went to the Assassination Fantasy -- with Trump's Secret Service Helping to Kill Him.



> Tell me again how much civility Trump, or I, or any of us, owes to the very civil, very responsible, very anti-violence media again.
> 
> ...
> 
> Funny, I didn't hear CNN's pussies crying about this today.
> 
> Repeat after me:
> 
> The rules of engagement you set for your enemies are the precise rules of engagement you set for yourself.
> 
> If it's okay for you to wink-wink and encourage actual violence against Republicans, well, then, _at the very least_, it's okay for the rest of us to not give a **** if Trump calls you Fake News.


Related, too:

And Here We Go: CNN's David Gregory Declares Sarah Sanders' Criticism of CNN No Longer Permissible; Thug/Governor Andrew Cuomo, Who Once Declared That There Was No Place for Pro-Lifers In His State, Calls for "Civility" in "Discourse"



> They're executing the Sarah Palin Playbook again, completely ignoring the fact that Democrats have frequently called for confrontation and incivility, and that CNN in particular has been a strident advocate for mob intimidation and even mob violence.
> 
> David Gregory in fact went out of his way to distinguish restaurant-mobbing (permissible!) from this possible bomb attempt against the Democrat-Media Complex, because this last one could actually hurt people.
> 
> Unlike, say, antifa beating people in the head with heavy steel bike-locks.


More:

New York Post Source: CNN "Bomb" Was Not a Bomb At All, As It Had No Blasting Cap Nor Any Other Device That Could Detonate It.



> A box of black powder you buy to blow up tree stumps is not a bomb, because it is not capable of self-detonation.
> 
> All this "device" is is some black powder in a PVC (!!!) pipe (dat light plastic shrapnel doh) and some ornamental wires and an Ahmed the Clock Boy type clock.
> 
> It's a fugazi.


Bombs Intercepted in Mail, Sent to Clintons, Obamas, and CNN;
One Report Said They Are Similar to the Pipe-Bomb Style Device Found in George Soros' Mailbox

Uh-Huh

AP: CNN Pipe "Bomb" and Powder Within It Were Perfectly _Harmless_

You Don't Say: NBC News Soybean Discovers That Twitter Tends to Reveal Almost All Journalists As Bitterly Partisan Left-Wingers


----------



## Macfury

I'd have to say that the list of recipients represents some sort of demented idea that a Democrat might have about who Republicans would like to see harmed. The truth is that Trump is eating these people alive raw. They're not a threat at all.


----------



## FeXL

That'd be nice.

Is political end finally here for former Farrakhan activist Keith Ellison? Down 7 points in Minnesota AG race



> Current DNC Vice-Chair and go-to Congressman for anti-Israel groups suffering after accusations he abused his former girlfriend.


----------



## Macfury

More sweet:



> Attorney Michael Avenatti and his client Julie Swetnick have been referred to the Justice Department for criminal investigation for a "potential conspiracy to provide materially false statements to Congress and obstruct a congressional committee investigation, three separate crimes, in the course of considering Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court of the United States."


----------



## FeXL

Trump Trolls Obama With 2005 Obama Speech. It's Terrific.



> On Tuesday, President Trump expertly trolled former President Obama on the subject of illegal immigration with this tweet, referencing a speech then-Senator Obama gave in 2005:
> 
> _I agree with President Obama 100%! pic.twitter.com/PI3aW1Zh5Q
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 23, 2018_​
> Obama's exact words:
> 
> _We all agree on the need to better secure the border, and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants. We are a generous and welcoming people here in the United States but those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country._​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Further on lefty False Flag operations.

There's Just No Way That a Terrorism-by-Mail Scheme Targeting the Political-Media Establishment Could be a False Flag.
I Mean, It Couldn't Happen _Again_, After The Last False Flag Mail Terror Attack in 2001



> Everyone remember the Anthrax mailings?
> 
> Real anthrax, by the way. Not fugazi. Killed a couple of people. Envelopes actually caused the dust to scatter when torn open. Like a weapon the maker actually intended to harm people.
> 
> Remember what the envelopes and letters declared?


Authorities Begin Admitting: Several Bombs Utterly Incapable of Exploding (and Hence Not "Bombs" at All); Admit They Do Not Know If These Are Intended to be Real But Incompetent Bombs, or Just Scare Objects, Or Just... Hoaxes



> Well glad to see the smug and snug cocoon of "Twitter Elite" conformity got everything so smashingly right yet again.


And this third link, which highlights a fascinating Prog meme and showcases s'more Fake Devices.

(content & language warning)

Don't Click on This



> This is a meme that leftists think is a #Winning play.
> 
> The slogan is "Grab Him by the Ballot." Like, grab Trump by the pussy, except, you know, the ballot box instead of the fun-box.
> 
> So that's already stupid.


----------



## FeXL

More polls highlighting the <snort> monster Blue Wave.

WHOAH: PATRICK MORRISEY TAKES LEAD OVER JOE MANCHIN IN WEST VIRGINIA SENATE RACE?



> As PJ Media reports, it gets worse:
> 
> _New polls show voters are rejecting Chuck Schumer’s Democrat allies in Senate races all across the country:
> #NDSen: Cramer +16#MOSen: Hawley +7#NVSen: Heller +6#TXSen: Cruz +5#INSen: Braun +4#WVSen: Morrisey +2
> 
> Let’s keep this momentum going!
> — Ronna McDaniel (@GOPChairwoman) October 25, 2018_​


I know, I know: polls are worth everything you pay for them. Still, it's interesting to watch the numbers.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs these idiots who try to present like Joe Six-pack & have it all blow up in their faces under scrutiny.

Tester Says Hunting Shows His Support for Second Amendment, Hasn’t Obtained License Since 2012



> Sen. Jon Tester (D., Mont.) touted his support for the Second Amendment in an interview with NBC Montana by saying he uses the right to bear arms when he goes hunting, but records indicate he hasn't been issued a hunting license since 2012.
> 
> In response to a question from host Maritsa Georgiou about whether the Second Amendment is a tough issue for a "Democrat in a gun state," Tester answered, "Like I've said, Maritsa, for 20 years, we butchered beef and hogs on the farm and when you butcher an animal you start out with a gun. And that's the way it is, it's the way it's done."
> 
> "It is a tool to me, I use it to control pests, I use it when I’m able to go hunting, to be able to go hunting," Tester continued.


----------



## SINC

How many of you read this in MSM?

*Officials: Suspicious packages sent to Trump, Pentagon*

Show of hands please.

Hmmmm, I thought so. No one.

https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pentagon-ricin-packages-1.21373935


----------



## wonderings

SINC said:


> How many of you read this in MSM?
> 
> *Officials: Suspicious packages sent to Trump, Pentagon*
> 
> Show of hands please.
> 
> Hmmmm, I thought so. No one.
> 
> https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pentagon-ricin-packages-1.21373935


I did mention that in an earlier post. It was on CNN but no big headlines, the pipe bombs had top billing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I did mention that in an earlier post. It was on CNN but no big headlines, the pipe bombs had top billing.




October 2. Ancient news. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rps

SINC said:


> How many of you read this in MSM?
> 
> *Officials: Suspicious packages sent to Trump, Pentagon*
> 
> Show of hands please.
> 
> Hmmmm, I thought so. No one.
> 
> https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pentagon-ricin-packages-1.21373935


Actually it was all over the news, CNN, Bloomberg and others...at least here where I live.


----------



## Macfury

I remember hearing about it, but the story died quickly.



SINC said:


> How many of you read this in MSM?
> 
> *Officials: Suspicious packages sent to Trump, Pentagon*
> 
> Show of hands please.
> 
> Hmmmm, I thought so. No one.
> 
> https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pentagon-ricin-packages-1.21373935


----------



## Macfury

I like this Tweet:


----------



## FeXL

Well, they claim to have found the fake bomb maker, in Florida.

Breaking…



> Florida man arrested in connection with fake bomb case…


"Investigative Detention" Made of "Person of Interest" in Not-A-Bombing Case



> Here We Go: It's a New Yorker. Update: Former New Yorker. I guess living in Florida now, but I'm not sure.
> 
> JackStraw says he's either 56 or 50, with one or more prior arrests for making terroristic threats. I don't know where he's getting that.


Oh, I know. He has pictures of Trump on his van. Obviously, then, the poor man simply has mental health issues & should be released on his own recognisance...


----------



## CubaMark

Cesar Sayoc arrested in U.S. pipe bomb investigation
Trump-supporting, bodybuilding, Native American Florida strip-club worker is revealed as the 'MAGAbomber' who 'sent suspicious packages to 12 liberals'
Man in custody in Florida in connection with mail bombs sent to prominent Democrats


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




Truth. Of course, around here, there are many that will deny the inherent truth of this political cartoon.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, you haven't identified the concept you see in the cartoon.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I just shake my head at those describing a false flag operation with respect to the bomb threats. Have you seen the guy’s van? Typical of low information voters.


----------



## Macfury

While I wouldn't discount the possibility that a "co-conspirator" encouraged him to send those amateur devices, the van has looked like that for a couple of years.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I just shake my head at those describing a false flag operation with respect to the bomb threats. Have you seen the guy’s van? Typical of low information voters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> While I wouldn't discount the possibility that a "co-conspirator" encouraged him to send those amateur devices, the van has looked like that for a couple of years.




Jeez, I wonder who he might have voted for....


----------



## Macfury

Trump in 2016 and Democrats before that, apparently.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Jeez, I wonder who he might have voted for....


----------



## FeXL

Bastards...

NBC News Hid Information that Would Have Cleared Kavanaugh of Avenatti Rape Allegations



> NBC News deliberately hid vital information that would have helped clear Brett Kavanaugh of the serial rape allegations Julie Swetnick and her attorney, Michael Avenatti, leveled against him.


Related:

NBC KNEW Avenatti was lying on the day BEFORE Kav Confirmation Hearing.



> More On Avenatti: Krakatoa also did a post on Avenatti, but it's still worth reading, because he emphasizes parts I didn't, like how Avenatti hemmed and hawed and began changing his story when asked about the woman he claimed "corroborated" Swetnick's claims:
> 
> This is journalistic malpractice. It is defamation by omission. I don't know if there is any sort of legal remedy for such behavior, but there damn well ought to be.
> 
> When attempting to get independent verification (NBC's claim -- I would guess instead of verification they were looking for even more salacious details) of Swetnick's serial gang rape claims from a corroborating witness, that witness directly contradicted and refuted the claims Avenatti submitted in her name.
> 
> NBC then asked Avenatti to clarify. He hemmed. He hawed. He got upset they would check his work. And then a really curious thing happened.


Anybody see this on the MSM anywhere? I'd be surprised.


----------



## FeXL

Your Moral And Intellectual Superiors



> This is CNN: _GQ columnist Julia Ioffe is apologizing after claiming that President Trump “has radicalized so many more people than ISIS ever did” during a segment on CNN’s “The Lead.”_


From the comments:



> Didn’t seem like an apology to me. She justified the outrageous comparison by saying how ’emotional’ these times have been for her. There was no acknowledgement that showed with any hint of emotions that her drive by character assassination was just plain wrong. All her so-called apology did was give another opportunity to swing at the President’s knees again. #FakeApology


Pretty much what I got out of it, too.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No way. Not a chance that electronic voter machines can be hacked & the results changed. Uh-unh...

Margin Of Fraud



> 3 Comments
> 
> I Bought Used Voting Machines on eBay for $100 Apiece.
> 
> _I reverse-engineered the machines to understand how they could be manipulated. After removing the internal hard drive, I was able to access the file structure and operating system. Since the machines were not wiped after they were used in the 2012 presidential election, I got a great deal of insight into how the machines store the votes that were cast on them. Within hours, I was able to change the candidates’ names to be that of anyone I wanted. When the machine printed out the official record for the votes that were cast, it showed that the candidate’s name I invented had received the most votes on that particular machine.
> &nbsp
> 
> This year, I bought two more machines to see if security had improved. To my dismay, I discovered that the newer model machines—those that were used in the 2016 election—are running Windows CE and have USB ports, along with other components, that make them even easier to exploit than the older ones. Our voting machines, billed as “next generation,” and still in use today, are worse than they were before—dispersed, disorganized, and susceptible to manipulation._


From the comments:



> Paper ballots marked by an ‘x’, only way. No internet, no voting machines.


Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more.

Pharmaceutical Industry Pays Price for Alliance With Obama Administration



> Obamacare’s roll-out was a mess. The perverse incentives encouraged insurers to shift more drug costs onto patients. Democrats lost control of Congress, allowing the GOP to chip away at Obama’s complicated system. In 2015, the Obama administration flouted the industry agreement, taking aim at patent protection for biologics and proposing discounts for Medicare.
> 
> Drugmakers might have been shocked at being tossed under the bus, but the Democrats never pretended to be satisfied by Obamacare. Noted Rep. Sander Levin, who chaired the House Ways and Means Committee at the time: “I think those of us who worked hard for ACA never thought it was the last word. It was something that we had to build on. And prescription medicine is now one of the building blocks that isn’t in place yet.”
> 
> The lesson should be clear. Observed the Wall Street Journal: “In this double-cross lies a warning for the next CEOs and lobbyists who are deluded enough to trust Washington liberals.” So much for staying off the menu: “Everyone still got devoured eventually. Business does better when it unites to fight destructive legislation.”


Yep. Ya gotta lov the Prog mindset that hopes they'll be eaten last...


----------



## FeXL

And even more of Barry's legacy!

Thanks, Obama! The Five Taliban Prisoners We Traded to Get Back the Deserter and Traitor Bowe Bergdahl Have, Get This, Re-Joined the Taliban



> You built that, you stuttering cluster**** of a miserable failure.
> 
> Of course, Obama didn't really fail; he did exactly what he set out to do.
> 
> Undermine, subvert, destroy.


----------



## FeXL

Well, the story of Sayoc drew attention away from the caravan of illegals being trucked through Mexico but now there remain a few inconsistencies & unanswered questions.

Sayoc Accusation Doesn't Pass the Smell Test



> Something still doesn’t pass the smell test. In a moment of time where merely wearing a “MAGA” hat can get you fired, beat up, or merely harangued out of your favorite eatery, we are asked to believe that Cesar Altieri Sayoc was allowed to drive around safely in a van abundantly and meticulously adorned with pro-Trump stickers and a few depicting his personal animus toward the usual anti-Trump suspects, all of their colors vibrant, un-faded in the semitropical Florida sun.
> 
> The van was never overturned or torched wherever he parked or drove it. No tires were ever slashed, no windows were ever smashed in with a baseball bat. It was never even keyed. And there it was in pristine condition, undamaged and ready for its close-up before a media avid to blame President Trump for Sayoc's actions.


Related:

Did the Incompetent Bomb-Making Terrorist Have Help?



> The criminal prosecution of accused 56-year-old mail bomber, Cesar Altieri Sayoc of Aventura, Florida, who is said to have sent non-operating improvised explosive devices to Democrat headliners like Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and George Soros, is scheduled to begin today.
> 
> Sayoc, a down-on-his-luck male stripper and bodybuilder with psychiatric problems who was reportedly living in a van plastered with pro-Trump, anti-Democrat, and anti-CNN imagery, was quietly arrested Friday outside an auto parts store. He faces five federal charges. He was been identified by the media as a rabid supporter of President Trump, which he may well be, but there is some evidence that calls into question the truthfulness of that assessment and whether Sayoc’s purported beliefs are sincere. And even if the facile media characterization of his politics turns out to be accurate, Sayoc did not speak for Republicans when he allegedly mailed explosives to prominent Democrats. In America, with few exceptions, political violence is a thing of the Left.


Related, too:

Cesar Sayoc: ‘MAGA Bomber’ Facebook Betrays Democrat Trump Infiltrator, Anti-GOP Posts



> While the mainstream media quickly labels Cesar Sayoc as a bona fide, Trump-loving, conservative Republican, social media and internet investigation shows the alleged, “MAGA Bomber” listed as a registered Democrat since 1980, (only changing to Republican in 2016,) and reveals multiple social media posts hating Republicans and the GOP, bashing George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, posting photos of Bush and Cheney as “war criminals,” and praising Code Pink, “liberal women,” as “the beautiful women of the world.” And that’s only the beginning.


Related, three:

Alleged Fake Bomber is Fillipino Ex-Con Who Claimed To Be Seminole

And, more questions:
1. I've seen multiple photos of the packaging the "bombs" came in. No cancellation on the stamps. How do multiple items go through the USPS without cancellation?

2. Others have noted that there is not nearly enough postage for the apparent weight of the "bombs". How does an item get shipped through the USPS without sufficient postage?

3. Most of the "bombs" arrived on the same day, to disparate points throughout the US. How is that even possible?

I ain't pullin' down my False Flag just yet...


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure it's all just a big misunderstanding...

Official School Records Support Claims That Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) Married Her Brother



> Minnesota state Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-60B) currently leads the race to fill the federal House seat being vacated by Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN). Immediately after being elected to her current seat in 2016, Omar faced allegations -- soon backed by a remarkable amount of evidence -- that she had married _her own brother_ in 2009, and was still legally his wife. They officially divorced in December 2017.
> 
> The motivation for the marriage remains unclear. However, the totality of the evidence points to possible immigration fraud and student loan fraud.


----------



## FeXL

Aaaaand, s'more on Barry's legacy.

More Emails Pull Back The Curtain On Obama-Era Abortions For Underage Illegal Aliens



> Last week, I reported that buried in a federal court opinion was a startling revelation: the Obama administration Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) transported minor illegal aliens to New Mexico for abortions to avoid state parental notification laws. Further digging in documents filed in the case, but not mentioned in the court opinion, reveal an even more extreme abortion-on-demand mindset of those charged with caring for the girls.


----------



## FeXL

Questions, questions, questions...

Mollie Hemingway: The Media Told Us that a Serial Rapist Had Been Nominated to the Supreme Court and We Needed to "Believe Victims."
So Why Have They Completely Stopped Reporting on This Story, Now That the "Serial Rapist" is a Justice?



> It kind of suggests that the media was lying when they claimed they #Believed so strongly, and that they knew from the start they were only executing a Political Op with the elective-office branch of the Democrat-Media Complex, and now that the political fight is over, there's no need to continue the sham op.
> 
> Kind of like the Russia Collusion Op we hear less and less about.
> 
> Hemingway asks some semi-rhetorical questions, but only semi. Though the questions suggest an answer, I'm sure she'd like answers from the media -- and if the media had any answers which _could_ dispel the suspicion that they are simply the Audio-Visual Squad of the Democrat Party, they would offer them.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, that'd be saweet...

Did a Dirty Trick Just Cost Jon Tester the Senate Race in Montana?



> Democrats -- one presumes -- sent out a false-flag mailer encouraging voters to vote for the libertarian in the race, billing him as the "true conservative" choice.
> 
> Well, the Libertarian candidate himself realized he was being used dishonestly as a catspaw for Tester.
> 
> So he's quit the race and endorsed the Republican, Matt Rosendale.
> 
> The libertarian candidate had been polling at 4% or so; coincidentally enough, 4% is about Jon Tester's lead over Rosendale.
> 
> So this could turn out to be a dirty trick that sinks the dirty trickster.


----------



## FeXL

B-bb-bbbbu-bbbuuuttt...TRUMP!!!!!

Elevating the Tone: Missouri Democrat Calls for Trump's Assassination



> I'm sure that somewhere out there, Jake Tapper just nodded, and then his Mostly-Male Harem of Shut-In Stans rushed to defend him.
> 
> _A Democratic state lawmaker in Missouri posted a now-deleted comment on Facebook expressing hope that the president would be assassinated.
> 
> It all started with a post from Missouri Democrat State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal on her personal Facebook page, where she voiced her disgust at President Trump and claimed he was "causing trauma and nightmares." Someone by the name of Christoper Gagne commented that he was thinking about his cousin, who worked for the Secret Service under Barack Obama for four years and has to spend two more protecting President Trump. Gagne then wrote cryptically, "But, what I posted earlier, I truly believe will happen, sooner...rather than later."
> 
> Gagne proceeded to quip, "I'll probably get a visit from the Secret Service smdh."
> 
> Chappelle-Nadal stupidly decided to reply with the following comment: "No. I will. I hope Trump is assassinated!"
> _​In totally, totally unrelated news, someone pumped four bullets into a Daytona GOP office.


----------



## FeXL

‘They all look alike’? Where’s lib/media outcry over Hillary Clinton’s ‘joke’ about Cory Booker and Eric Holder?



> So it turns out that Hillary Clinton not outright ruling out yet another run at the White House wasn’t even the most objectionable thing she’s said recently.


Crickets...


----------



## FeXL

Of course they should.

Former TV CEO Says U.S. Should Ban ‘Straight White Males from Voting’



> Steven Clifford, author and former CEO of the King Broadcasting Company and National Mobile Television, told PJM that the federal government should “prohibit straight white males from voting” in U.S. elections as a way to “save” democracy.
> 
> “I think it’s the only hope for democracy in America and I will be leading a great movement to prohibit straight white males, who I believe supported Donald Trump by about 85 percent, from exercising the franchise and I think that will save our democracy,” Clifford said during an interview after speaking at the forum “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” which was organized by the Center for Study of Responsive Law – a group former independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader founded in 1968.


Related:

CNN host: 'The biggest terror threat in this country is white men'



> CNN host Don Lemon is under fire after a disturbing, on-air rant in which he declared that “white men” are the biggest terror threat to the United States, noted that "there is no white-guy ban" and wondered aloud, "what do we do about that?"


Lemon. The iron.

What a prize. His mom must be proud...

Let's check those numbers, Don:

Those Moderate Muslims!



> From Don “biggest terror threat in this country are white men” Lemon’s lips…
> 
> _Lemon then referred to a Government Accountability Office report that says since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, right-wing extremists have killed 106 people in 62 different attacks in U.S., while Islamist extremists have killed 119 people in 23 different attacks._​
> … to the SDA Muslim Terror Calculator:
> 
> According to the sources linked, there were about 3.45 million Muslims in the US as of 2017, vs 211.46 million Americans classed as “white”.
> 
> *By my roughly rounded calculation, that one death by terrorism per 29,700 Muslims in America vs one death per 2 million “whites”.*
> 
> Thanks, Don!


My bold.

Must be more of that new Prog math... :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

To think you had a world of ready-made memes to choose from, and you chose to pull this train wreck of a gag from the bottom of the pile.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> To think you had a world of ready-made memes to choose from, and you chose to pull this train wreck of a gag from the bottom of the pile.




Makes the point very well, actually.


----------



## FeXL

Not even close, Freddie. Especially in light of Fox's recent move to the left.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Makes the point very well, actually.


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure...

Trump Says He'll Seek Birthright Citizenship Fix Through Legislation, So I'm Sure the Open Borders Cucks Who Pretended Their Objection Lay Only in the Executive Order Approach Will Support the Measure Now


----------



## FeXL

They Can't Bear the Thought That Trump's Win Was No Anomaly



> Since I write on Halloween, let me confess that I find the prospect of Speaker Nancy Pelosi pretty frightening, ditto the prospect of replacing Devin Nunes as the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee with Adam Schiff, or the elevation of Rep. Elijah Cummings to the chairmanship of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. I am told that Maxine Waters would be in line to become chair of the House Financial Services Committee, which is not so much scary as surreal. And there are a number of other changes that would be made that would put the trick in trick-or-treat.
> 
> I forbear to describe what would happen to the Senate should the Democrats take it not because I am faint of heart -- i*magine, if you can bear it, Dianne Feinstein as head of the Judiciary Committee* -- but simply because that is not going to happen. I do not, as of Wednesday morning, 31 October, believe that the Democrats will take the House either...


M'bold.

<shudder>


----------



## Macfury

It is a generic meme suited for NPCs.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Makes the point very well, actually.


----------



## FeXL

D'oh!


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> D'oh!


Is that real?

did my own google search and snopes says it is not real
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-blackface-photo/


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Is that real?
> 
> did my own google search and snopes says it is not real
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-blackface-photo/


<snort>

Snopes?


----------



## FeXL

Progs? Delusional? Naaaahhhhh...

The Ever More Delusional Left



> Despite 98% of the media foaming at the mouth against President Trump since he was inaugurated, the left, meaning the legacy media, academia, all elected Democrats and the radical progressives, has convinced itself that Americans hate the man. They believe that those who voted for him regret their vote. They believe they are going to win back the House in November and are not shy about what they plan to do with their restored majority. They vow to begin investigations into every aspect of Trump's past, to impeach him, to impeach Judge Kavanaugh. Some Democrats even want to impeach Clarence Thomas! They want to pack the Supreme Court, add justices in order to water down the opinions of the five constitutionalists now on the bench. They imagine all of this despite the wildly successful rallies Trump holds that betray their dream.


----------



## FeXL

Middle-Class Tax Cuts: Will One More Silence Democrats' False Rhetoric? 



> Taxes: If you think President Trump's economic agenda is done as he approaches the midpoint of his first term, you're mistaken. Top White House officials are even now putting the finishing touches on another tax cut of 10%, designed to hit the middle class as squarely in the pocketbook as possible. Is it just an election gimmick?
> 
> The answer is no. Trump has had his hand forced in this by the incessant and blatantly misleading media reports of this year's tax cuts going only to "the rich," not to the rest of us. So, as Trump told reporters recently at the White House, "We're giving a middle-income tax reduction of about 10%."
> 
> That is in addition to the cuts already made this year, which have powered the U.S. economy into boom territory.


Winning!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Is that real?
> 
> 
> 
> did my own google search and snopes says it is not real
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-blackface-photo/




Don’t get him started on Snopes. More fake news if you ask the All-knowing One.


----------



## Macfury

Snopes has been known to apply some very specious reasoning to defend Democrats. It's worthwhile to see why they believe one thing or another, but by no means definitive.

If you want a real laugh, look up the tortured personal lives of the Snopes crew.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Don’t get him started on Snopes. More fake news if you ask the All-knowing One.


----------



## Macfury

Who would make up a claim of sexual assault only to undermine the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice? Why, this lady:

https://www.businessinsider.com/brett-kavanaugh-sexual-assault-accuser-judy-munro-leighton-2018-11



> Munro-Leighton, who said she called Congress multiple times to oppose Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court, also admitted she "just wanted to get attention" and that her actions were "just a ploy."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who would make up a claim of sexual assault only to undermine the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice? Why, this lady:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/brett-kavanaugh-sexual-assault-accuser-judy-munro-leighton-2018-11




From the same article: “Grassley urged the FBI and attorney general to give "utmost consideration" to the case, but added that Munro-Leighton's fabricated allegations should not discount sexual assault claims that were made in "good faith." “


----------



## Macfury

And how does that change the meaning of what I posted?



Freddie_Biff said:


> From the same article: “Grassley urged the FBI and attorney general to give "utmost consideration" to the case, but added that Munro-Leighton's fabricated allegations should not discount sexual assault claims that were made in "good faith." “


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And how does that change the meaning of what I posted?




Because you seem to insinuating that Kavanaugh is blameless.


----------



## Macfury

The question frequently asked during the hearings by anti-Kavanaugh types: "Who would lie about a sexual assault accusation simply to torpedo his nomination." The answer is: Munro-Leighton.

Nobody can say with certainty whether anyone is "blameless." I could not say that you were blameless regarding almost any type of crime. Only that no credible accuser has yet presented evidence to convict you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Because you seem to insinuating that Kavanaugh is blameless.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The question frequently asked during the hearings by anti-Kavanaugh types: "Who would lie about a sexual assault accusation simply to torpedo his nomination." The answer is: Munro-Leighton.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody can say with certainty whether anyone is "blameless." I could not say that you were blameless regarding almost any type of crime. Only that no credible accuser has yet presented evidence to convict you.



Munro-Leighton’s story does not discredit Christine Ford’s testimony. It’s a pretty weak defence of Kavanaugh to suggest that because someone else may have lied, therefore all testimony from anyone else is also questionable.


----------



## arminia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMvYHzOufI
Funny song don't know if it was already posted.


----------



## Macfury

It has nothing to do with Ford. It's simply proof that some people would risk their personal reputations to lie about a Supreme Court nominee in an effort to derail him.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Munro-Leighton’s story does not discredit Christine Ford’s testimony. It’s a pretty weak defence of Kavanaugh to suggest that because someone else may have lied, therefore all testimony from anyone else is also questionable.


----------



## Beej

Good news that the U.S. deficit is probably lower.


----------



## Beej

A strange way to argue.

We have no excuses now. Our eyes are wide open.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.da88adb03ec5


> Exactly two years ago, many Americans held their noses and voted for Donald Trump. Some were conservatives willing to tolerate his vulgar excesses in hopes of getting tax cuts, a repeal of Obamacare and a friendlier judiciary.


What follows is a list of bullet-point criticisms, but leading with two out of three things Trump delivered on is a strange way to argue against him. The takeaway is that conservatives mostly got what they hoped for.


----------



## FeXL

Law requiring a birth certificate to register to vote advances to appeals court



> The debate over how to sift out illegal voters from legal ones has reached the federal appeals court level, making it possible the Supreme Court eventually will rule whether a state can demand a birth certificate to register to vote.
> 
> The case before the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver centers on a 2011 Kansas law, the Documentary Proof of Citizenship (DPOC). In June, a district court judge struck down the law, with biting criticism of analysts who contend a large number of noncitizens nationwide vote illegally, tilting close elections to Democrats. Judge Julia A. Robinson said the Kansas legislation violated federal law and the 14th Amendment guarantee to equal protection.


Curious that a backwards-assed country like Mexico requires voters to have a gov't issues ID card yet, in the progressive US, the left fights tooth & nail against it...


----------



## FeXL

Soros' cheques must have bounced... 

Mexico Says Nearly 3,000 Migrants Have Abandoned The 'Migrant Caravan'



> The Washington Examiner reports that "nearly 3,000" migrants have abandoned the caravan in recent days, flouting their leaders' suggestion that they resist accepting asylum and temporary work authorization in Mexico and press forward to the U.S. border.
> 
> "Mexico's Interior and Foreign Ministries reported, as of Thursday, 2,934 people originally traveling to the U.S. have stopped and applied for asylum in Mexico," the Examiner says. "Of those, 927 have canceled their asylum claim with the Mexican government and returned to Guatemala and Honduras, where the caravans originated, according to a government news release."


----------



## FeXL

Quelle surprise...

Georgia Sec. of State: Democrats Tried to ‘Hack’ Voter Registration Site



> Political tensions ratcheted further Sunday when Secretary of State (SOS) and Republican gubernatorial hopeful Brian Kemp’s office accused the Georgia Democratic Party of attempting to “breach” the state’s online voter registration system on Saturday. The Department of Homeland Security and the FBI were alerted to the situation, according to official statements.


Related:

Why Do Democrats Pretend Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist?



> Midterm Elections: As people go to vote on Tuesday, they will be counting on the system working properly. Which means only those eligible to vote will do so. Unfortunately, as recent cases show, that's not always the case.
> 
> In August, the Justice Department announced the prosecution of 19 foreign nationals for illegally voting in North Carolina. Some of them voted in multiple elections.
> 
> 97 Cases In Texas This Year
> 
> Texas State Attorney General Ken Paxton decided to crack down on voter fraud before the midterm elections. So far, he's prosecuted 33 people for 97 counts of voter fraud this year alone. Among the discoveries was a voter fraud ring that had received financial support from the former head of the Texas Democratic Party.
> 
> Pennsylvania let thousands of noncitizens register to vote, many of whom have since voted, according to reporter John Fund, who has been following this issue for years.
> 
> The Heritage Foundation has a database that now includes 1,165 cases of election fraud across 47 states. More than 1,000 of them resulted in criminal convictions.


Why? Because, generally speaking, it benefits them. As do illegal immigrant voters:


----------



## FeXL

Further on lying rape "victims".

Another False Kavanaugh Accuser Referred to Feds



> Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley has sent the case of a woman who admits inventing sexual abuse allegations to block Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to federal officials for criminal prosecution.
> 
> The news came as Grassley’s committee unveiled a 414-page report on all of the allegations against Kavanaugh during the confirmation process. “In the end, there was no credible evidence to support the allegations against the nominee,” he said.
> 
> The referral of left-wing activist Judy Munro-Leighton came Friday in a letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions and FBI Director Christopher Wray. Munro-Leighton is 70 years old. Kavanaugh is 53. The referral came almost a month after Kavanaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court barely squeaked through the Senate despite leftists’ desperate attempts to sabotage it.
> 
> Munro-Leighton was part of the enraged Left’s eleventh-hour character-assassination attempt against Kavanaugh. The goal was always to prevent the now-justice’s ascent to the Supreme Court at all costs. And these people very nearly succeeded.


Related:

Senate Report Reveals Christine Blasey Ford Had an Encounter Similar to Her Kavanaugh Claim



> A Senate Judiciary Committee report released Saturday revealed that committee investigators interviewed a man who described a sexual encounter with Christine Blasey Ford that shared similarities to the one she claimed she had with Supreme Court Brett Kavanaugh.
> 
> According to the report, a man — whose name is redacted — told committee investigators in an interview on September 26, 2018, that when he was a 19-year-old college student, he had visited D.C. over spring break and kissed a girl he believes was Christine Blasey Ford. According to the report:
> 
> _He said that the kiss happened in the bedroom of a house which was about a 15-to 20 minute walk from the Van Ness Metro, that Dr. Ford was wearing a swimsuit under her clothing, and that the kissing ended when a friend jumped on them as a joke. [Redacted] said that the woman initiated the kissing and that he did not force himself on her._​
> The man’s description of his encounter with Ford is similar to the one Ford alleged she had with Kavanaugh in three ways.


Telegraphing or template?

Related, too:

Senate Judiciary Committee Releases 414-Page Kavanaugh Report – Investigators Continue Review of Former FBI Agent Monica Lee McLean Involvement…



> The Senate Judiciary Committee has released a lengthy report (full pdf below) containing the investigative material from the senate investigation of the Kavanaugh accusations.
> 
> On page #27 of the report the senate committee notes their intent to continue investigating the role of retired FBI Agent *Monica Lee McLean*, who appears to have been _‘handling‘_ accuser and best friend, Christine Blasey-Ford:


Emphasis from the link.

Related, three:

Chuck Grassely Criminally Refers Leftwing Activist Who Claimed in Graphic Detail to Have Been Raped by Brett Kavanaugh, But Who Turned Out to Be Decades Older Than Him and Never Having Been in the Same State as Him; She Admits It Was all a "Ploy"



> Women never lie about rape, _except for_ the many, many documented cases of women lying about rape.
> 
> Oh, and she also admits she made the whole thing up "to get attention."
> 
> So when people say "What would an accuser's incentive to lie be?" -- well, sometimes it's a simple as getting attention.
> 
> Or, as this woman now admits: to derail the confirmation of a justice she opposed for partisan political reasons.
> 
> This demands jail time. You cannot just defame people and lodge false accusations to Congress because your Pussy-Hat told you it was okay to lie.


----------



## FeXL

Montana Voters Appreciate Trump’s Mission to Take Down Tester



> POLSON, Mt.—Voters in Montana aren't used to the level of attention they've been given by President Donald Trump and his closest allies, and many are hopeful it could get Republican Matt Rosendale across the finish line against two-term incumbent Democrat Jon Tester.
> 
> Trump made his fourth visit to Montana on Saturday, where a large crowd waited for hours to welcome Air Force One to an airstrip outside of Bozeman. He hit on the booming economy, the caravan approaching the border, and his fake news foes at CNN and MSNBC, but the rally was marked by the direct aim he took at Tester.


----------



## eMacMan

Sorta says it all.


----------



## FeXL

There Goes The Narrative



> Don Lemon was unavailable for comment: _NYPD releases photo of suspect who scrawled anti-Semitic graffiti inside Brooklyn synagogue…_


Again?


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant



> "Get out there and vote, you morons! And if you've voted early, get out there and vote again! (just kidding) But see here: the last time we had an election, the progs became so unglued that some of them thought that the ultimate reason for Trump winning was because we're all living in a computer-simulated reality and there was a glitch in the Matrix. I'm not making this up. Trump's victory plus the Brexit vote plus the Patriots improbable Superbowl win plus the Best Picture announcement flub at the Oscar ceremony were all supposedly Things That Weren't Supposed To Happen. Therefore, it wasn't their perceptions and expectations that were wrong, no, it was reality itself that was wrong. Now, you've got to be imbibing in some seriously high-proof narcissistic silly juice in order to think that, but that was then. *Right now, Trump has driven them so far around the bend that they're only holding onto reality by a fingernail and what do you think is going to happen if the GOP keeps the House and increases its majority in the Senate? We may be heading for a Psychotic Armageddon. You'd best vote early and then stay home for the next couple of days to avoid the soggy shrapnel from all of the exploding heads.*"


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## SINC

This is really good and apologies that the only link to it I can find to date is on Facebook which will limit some folks from viewing it. Hopefully a new link will be available on YouTube soon. Meanwhile, enjoy a musical look at the peaceful left in action.

https://www.facebook.com/thecigarwrappers/videos/276697152965369/


----------



## Beej

SINC said:


> This is really good and apologies that the only link to it I can find to date is on Facebook which will limit some folks from viewing it. Hopefully a new link will be available on YouTube soon. Meanwhile, enjoy a musical look at the peaceful left in action.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/thecigarwrappers/videos/276697152965369/


Funny. Thanks.

Plays fine without logging in.


----------



## FeXL

Bring it. Yep, I'm serious. 

Lowering the Voting Age to Sixteen



> The Washington D.C. City Council will soon hold a vote on a bill that would lower the voting age to 16. The measure, which has already passed the Judiciary and Public Safety Committee by a margin of 3-0, will, unless sanity somehow reenters the council, likely pass.
> 
> The result will be a victory for the glories of democracy as suffrage is extended to a group with a high-school graduation rate of 42%.


More:



> Even so, lowering the voting age to 16 doesn’t fully satisfy the deontological case for widespread suffrage. Theodore Dalrymple asks theoretically, “Why stick at 16, then? Why not 12? And why not deprive the aged of their votes, on the grounds that they have little stake in the future of the country compared with 12-year-olds and tend to be not only cautious but attached to the past?”
> 
> The answer is simple, of course: Once you accept that voting shouldn’t be limited on age and status because everyone has a stake in society, then infants, logically speaking, have the right to vote. Our youngest may not be able to choose between Mickey Mouse and Big Bird jammies, but, by gum, they’re qualified to pick a president!


With a couple _small_ codicils:
1) Microscopic examination of all social media accounts;
2) Age of purchasing a firearm gets lowered to 16;
3) Age of entering the military gets lowered to 16;
4) Age of being tried as an adult in the court system gets lowered to 16;
5) Age of purchasing alcohol gets lowered to 16;
6) Age of purchasing tobacco & pot gets lowered to 16;
7) Blood tests to ensure they have not been snorting Tide pods in the previous 6 months;
8) Medical examination of nasal passages to ensure they haven't been snorting condoms.

That's a start...


----------



## FeXL

Imagine the hue & cry from Cuba when Trump tells the UN to pound sand...

The UN Gets $10 Billion a Year From US Taxpayers; Cuba Thinks That’s Not Enough



> The United States, whose taxpayers account for some $10 billion a year in contributions to the United Nations system, was criticized at a meeting in New York on Tuesday for being late with its payments, with Cuba leading the charge – and suggesting it should be paying more.
> 
> “We know full well who is responsible for the current critical financial situation of the organization,” Cuban Ambassador Anayansi Rodriguez told the General Assembly’s budget committee. It was “alarming,” she said, that the biggest debts to the U.N. were the responsibility of one country – the United States.


And this:



> Rodriguez ended her statement by saying that Cuba pays its dues to the U.N. in full, *despite the hardships it faces as a result of the U.S. economic embargo, first implemented 56 years ago.*


Ah, yes. The old _Victim!!!_ card. Oft repeated by commies, dictators & Progs (but I repeat myself) whose socialist empires collapse at their feet: IT'S THE CAPITALIST'S FAULT!!!


----------



## FeXL

And even more of Barry's legacy!

Under Obama, the CIA Suffered a 'Catastrophic' Disaster



> This story, which broke on Nov. 2, got mighty little attention from the national media. I wonder why:
> 
> _In 2013, hundreds of CIA officers — many working nonstop for weeks — scrambled to contain a disaster of global proportions: a compromise of the agency’s internet-based covert communications system used to interact with its informants in dark corners around the world. Teams of CIA experts worked feverishly to take down and reconfigure the websites secretly used for these communications; others managed operations to quickly spirit assets to safety and oversaw other forms of triage.
> 
> “When this was going on, it was all that mattered,” said one former intelligence community official. The situation was “catastrophic,” said another former senior intelligence official._​
> Now, who was president back then?
> 
> _From around 2009 to 2013, the U.S. intelligence community experienced crippling intelligence failures related to the secret internet-based communications system, a key means for remote messaging between CIA officers and their sources on the ground worldwide. The previously unreported global problem originated in Iran and spiderwebbed to other countries, and was left unrepaired — despite warnings about what was happening — until more than two dozen sources died in China in 2011 and 2012 as a result, according to 11 former intelligence and national security officials.
> 
> The disaster ensnared every corner of the national security bureaucracy — from multiple intelligence agencies, congressional intelligence committees and independent contractors to internal government watchdogs — forcing a slow-moving, complex government machine to grapple with the deadly dangers of emerging technologies._​
> *This is simply stunning.* A rollup of networks across the world -- an event that began in Iran, where the Obama administration would soon enough be negotiating its much sought-after "nuclear deal framework," and ended with numerous deaths is the kind of thing of which intelligence nightmares and national-security disasters are made.


Bold mine.

An understatement, at best...


----------



## FeXL

Illegal Alien MS-13 Member—Who Entered U.S. as Unaccompanied Minor--Caught With Loaded Gun in Boston



> An illegal alien from El Salvador, who was arrested in May while carrying a loaded gun in Boston, Mass., pleaded guilty in federal court yesterday--as a Department of Justice press release put it--to “one count of being an illegal alien in possession of firearms and ammunition, acc
> 
> The illegal alien, Elmer Alfaro Hercules, who is now 20 years old, “was arrested in possession of a firearm in an East Boston park, a location where numerous MS-13 gang members have been observed and where gang-on-gang violence frequently occurs.”


----------



## FeXL

On a roll, Barry!

Here's Something Obama Actually Deserves Credit For



> *Health Reform*: The American people may not believe that Barack Obama deserves credit for the current economy, but they do say he's largely responsible for the state of health care, thanks to ObamaCare. It's not a compliment.
> 
> Fifty-six percent of the public says that Obama is "most responsible for the current state of the U.S. health care system," according to the latest Morning Consult/Politico survey. That's up from the 44% who said Obama was most responsible in March. Fewer than a quarter (24%) say Trump is most responsible, which is down from 28% in March.
> 
> So, what is the "current state of the U.S. health care system"? Not good. And the public is right to pin the blame on Obama.
> 
> *Unaffordable Health Care*
> 
> Despite its official title — the "Affordable Care Act" — *ObamaCare caused premiums in the individual insurance market to more than double since it went into effect in 2014. *The result has been to price millions of middle-class families who aren't eligible for ObamaCare subsidies out of the insurance market altogether.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Gotta get those illegal alien Dem voters prepped for the election!

Mexican National Gets 54 Months in U.S. Prison for Making More Than 1,000 Fake IDs—in Ohio



> A 44-year-old Mexican woman living in Marion, Ohio, has been sentenced to 54 months in prison for operating what federal prosecutors call “a document mill that produced more than 1,000 false identification documents.”
> 
> “Law enforcement executed a search warrant at Buendia-Chavarria’s residence in October 2017, where they located numerous false identification documents, five handwritten ledgers containing other peoples’ names, dates of birth and Social Security numbers, and in some cases, who the identity was sold to, according to court documents,” says a statement released by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Ohio.


----------



## FeXL

'Magine that...

Kavanaugh Report Reveals ‘Mistaken Identity’ Claims – Grassley Probe Concludes ‘No Evidence’ to Back Sexual Assault Allegations



> Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-IA) released a 414 page report on Brett Kavanaugh over the weekend and confirmed that there is no credible evidence to support the sexual assault allegations.


Questions, questions, questions:


----------



## FeXL

Canada, take note.

Refugee from Iraq Accused of Making Two Bombs in Las Vegas for Attack



> A refugee living in the United States from Iraq has been arrested and charged with making two bombs in Las Vegas, Nevada and allegedly teaching undercover FBI investigators how to make and detonate the explosive devices.
> 
> Ahmad Suhad Ahmad, a 30-year-old Iraqi refugee living in Tuscon, Arizona was busted by the FBI after the agency spent nearly two years operating an undercover sting where they say Ahmad built bombs and taught undercover agents how to do the same.
> 
> According to the FBI, the Iraqi refugee built two bombs in a Las Vegas condo. Both of those bombs, investigators say, were meant for a terrorist attack in Mexico that Ahmad was planning.


More:



> Ahmad is the second refugee from Iraq in the last four months to be arrested on terrorism charges and the third Iraqi refugee to be charged with trying to kill others.
> 
> In August, a 45-year-old refugee from Iraq Omar Ameen was arrested for allegedly murdering a man in Iraq on behalf of the Islamic State. That same month, 31-year-old Iraqi refugee Karrar Noaman Al Khammasi was arrested after allegedly attempting to murder Colorado police officer Cem Duzel.


Not to worry, though. After a thorough, rigid, time-consuming & resource-eating vetting of a whole 96 hours, all refugees coming into Canada are safe...


----------



## eMacMan

Perfect for today.


----------



## FeXL

Anybody have any predictions on today's elections?

I'm going to go out on a limb & call the GOP for House, Senate & Montana.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Anybody have any predictions on today's elections?
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb & call the GOP for House, Senate & Montana.


I'm going for Senate and a tiny majority in the House.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Ah, yes. The old _Victim!!!_ card. Oft repeated by commies, dictators & Progs (but I repeat myself) whose socialist empires collapse at their feet: IT'S THE CAPITALIST'S FAULT!!!


I know this is probably futile, but I'm an eternal optimist.

I feel quite confident in saying that you either have zero knowledge of Cuba and the embargo, or you are intentionally choosing to remain ignorant of the subject matter.

This post from a few years back covers everything you need to know about the embargo. Very little has changed, even with Obama's "warming" of relations that led to the re-opening of the U.S. embassy in Havana. The embargo is as pervasive as it ever was.

But do feel free to continue with your ideological rants on the topic....


----------



## Macfury

Pay up for stolen property, Cuba, and end the embargo!


----------



## FeXL

Oh, I know.

And Castro was a great leader. And so was Joe Stalin. And Karl Marx. And Mao. And Maduro. Etc. Etc. Etc.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Tell ya what, CM. You go git yerself properly edumacated on the dozen or so things I listed here, then come back & we'll talk Cuba's embargo. Until then, git off yer gawdam high horse.

You may well know more than me about Cuba but it's likely the only thing you've ever posted on these boards where that statement is true.



CubaMark said:


> I feel quite confident in saying that you either have zero knowledge of Cuba and the embargo, or you are intentionally choosing to remain ignorant of the subject matter.


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Anybody have any predictions on today's elections?
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb & call the GOP for House, Senate & Montana.


I have a quick "model" with Republicans holding the house by one seat. Insert laundry list of caveats ---> here.

Still, if you want my call, it's a tiny majority in the House for Republicans. Senate stays Republican.


----------



## eMacMan

Beej said:


> I have a quick "model" with Republicans holding the house by one seat. Insert laundry list of caveats ---> here.
> 
> Still, if you want my call, it's a tiny majority in the House for Republicans. Senate stays Republican.


I think the Democrypts by one in the house, but even if it is the Rebloodlirats by one it should serve to effectively paralyze any chance of even a glimmer of common sense.


----------



## Beej

eMacMan said:


> I think the Democrypts by one in the house, but even if it is the Rebloodlirats by one it should serve to effectively paralyze any chance of even a glimmer of common sense.


You were closest. Good work!


----------



## FeXL

Well, the midterms didn't go as well as I'd hoped but about what I expected. Last I checked Montana still hadn't been decided, Tester was trailing by a bit.

That said, let's have a look at Prog run cities & their debt.

'Big 3' U.S. Cities Facing Fiscal Crisis As Unpayable Retiree Benefit Debts Soar



> Fiscal Crisis: New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, America's three largest cities, have much in common. For one, they're all very cosmopolitan. For another, they're governed almost exclusively by Democrats. And finally, all three of the nation's pre-eminent urban areas are teetering on the edge of fiscal disaster.
> 
> In a recent report, "The Financial State Of The 3 Largest U.S. Cities," the government financial watchdog Truth In Accounting (TIA) revealed just how bad these major cities' finances really are.
> 
> TIA graded all three cities for their fiscal peformance, using the familiar academic measuring stick of grades A through F. Only one, Los Angeles, didn't get an 'F'. It got a 'D'. But it's safe to say, without dramatic changes, all face fiscal crisis.


More:



> The point is, all suffer from the same ills. Progressive governments love to spend big. And they hate to say no to big city unions, which have the power to shut down vital services or even kick politicians out of office. So for years, the pension problems have gotten worse. And spending has only risen.
> 
> ...
> 
> *More spending is no longer an option.* Cities will soon face existential dilemmas, such as "do we keep picking up the garbage and clean the streets, or do we slash spending on services to pay ever increasing amounts for retiree benefits?"


M'bold.

Thatcher said it best: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”


----------



## Dr.G.

Pres. Trump said today he would take a "warlike posture" if House Democrats try to investigate him. He did, however, give the best speech of his life today.

"Today, November 7th, 2018, a date which will live in infamy, the President and the Congress of the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by a House of Representatives controlled by the Democratic Party. 

The United States government was at peace with the Democratic Party and, at the solicitation of Nancy Pelosi, was still in conversation with that Party looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Congress. 

The vote yesterday in the United States has caused severe damage to American democracy and stability in our nation. I regret to tell you that very many Americans in the Trumpublican Party lost in their elections. 

The Democratic Party has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the House of Representatives. The facts of yesterday and today speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our Nation. 

As President and Commander in Chief for our defense, I shall put us in a "warlike posture" should the House of Representatives try to investigate me or my family. Always will our whole Nation remember the character of the Democratic Party's onslaught against us. 

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion of my privacy, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. 

I believe that I interpret the will of the House of Representatives, and of the people, when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make it very certain that this form of treachery by the Democratic Party shall never again endanger us. Brave Texans once said "Remember the Alamo". Gen. George Custer once said "On to the Little Bighorn ........... on to victory." I say unto you today "Remember 2016, and on to 2020 ...... and on to victory in the next presidential election." 

With confidence in our Republican Party and with the unbounding determination of our people we will gain the inevitable triumph in 2020 so help us God."

Yes, quite the speech. Teleprompter Trump has taken command of the situation.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Teleprompter Trump...


The iron...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> The iron...


Teleprompter Trump reads what was given to him and when he stays on script does not go off on tangents. When Twitter Trump takes off there is no telling what he will say. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

NeverTrump's Victims: NeverTrump (Former) Republican Congressmen



> Ben Domenech writes that Republicans proved they can win in purple states, whereas Democrats... did not.
> 
> _The Blue Wave that had been so highly anticipated last night never materialized. A wave election, however you define it, does more than elect 30-35 House members and flip at this juncture just one Senate seat. A wave election is a combo punch of wins all over the place, including in places that push the margins of where you thought a party could win. We saw a true wave election in 2010 for Republicans. There was no such repudiation offered by Resistance Democrats in 2018.
> 
> ...
> 
> So today we wake up to a Republican Party that is decidedly more Trumpian, having seen the elimination of its most moderate and Trump-critical members, and the support of those who embraced Trump emphatically on the campaign trail and in policy preferences. The only candidate to win statewide who could be fairly described as a Trump critic is Mitt Romney, and even he will arrive in Washington to play the balancing game in a period of investigations and confirmations. _​


----------



## FeXL

*JIM ACOSTA PHYSICALLY PUSHES FEMALE WHITE HOUSE STAFFER IN ORDER TO KEEP HOLD OF HIS PRECIOUS MICROPHONE*

Emphasis from the link.



> Sissyboy and soyaholic Tommy Christopher thinks the 115 pound girl is in the wrong here.
> 
> _Holy crap. White House aide literally in wrestling match with @acosta over mic. pic.twitter.com/tSNWuxN44H
> — MidTermmy Christopher (@tommyxtopher) November 7, 2018_​
> Apparently all of the Blue Twitter Ticks are cheering this assault of a woman.
> 
> We should begin a petition to have Accoster of Women banned from the White House -- I can't imagine female staffers feel "safe" with him around.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Teleprompter Trump reads what was given to him...


Was referring to Teleprompter Barry, who, like The Dope, is unable to articulate two sentences without saying "ah" or "um" a dozen times.


----------



## FeXL

Sessions is gone. :clap:

Jeff Sessions Resigns as AG, At President's Request



> With additional Senators coming into office, and fewer NeverTrump cucks, Trump calculates that he will be able to get a replacement AG through.
> 
> Okay, I don't want to be That Guy, but I guess we're finally done with the "Stealth Jeff" and Q Anon stuff about Jeff Sessions being a double-secret super-agent carrying out Trump's labyrinthine schemes?


Related:

Surprise! Now Chuck Schumer Demands That Sessions' Temporary Replacement, Matthew G. Whitaker, Must Recuse Himself Too!!!
_ROSENSTEIN ON WAY TO WHITE HOUSE FOR "MEETING"_



> Because he wrote an Op-Ed expressing his opinion that Robert Mueller had overstepped his authority.
> 
> I know you're all shocked.
> 
> I'll tell you what: If this Whitaker guy really offers a firm and final rebuke of Schumer's gamesmanship, who knows, maybe he could be worthy of being AG.
> 
> And while the Democrats express outrage that Trump asked for Sessions' resignation, let's see what Democrats were saying last year...
> 
> 
> _Good morning. In case anyone forgot, Jeff Sessions must resign as AG. He cannot possibly lead DOJ to promote trust & rule of law.
> — (((Rep. Nadler))) (@RepJerryNadler) March 7, 2017_​


Rosenstein, too? Oh, that'd be saweet...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Was referring to Teleprompter Barry, who, like The Dope, is unable to articulate two sentences without saying "ah" or "um" a dozen times.


Barry's teleprompter hell:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Sessions is gone. :clap:
> 
> Rosenstein, too? Oh, that'd be saweet...



This is good news. Didn't think this day would offer such rewards.


----------



## FeXL

Still with the Russkies, still with Kavanaugh. Unbelievable...

Overheard: Jerry Nadler Promises to Go "All-In" on Russia Investigation; Wants to Investigate FBI, Wants to Impeach Kavanaugh



> The Democrats claiming they're not going to impeach Trump or Kavanaugh are lying.
> 
> _Here we go. I rode the train down with an important incoming chairman of House Judiciary and heard about their plans to impeach Kavanaugh and Trump. #RussiaRussiaRussia! https://t.co/bErZmO82jL
> — Mollie (@MZHemingway) November 7, 2018_​
> Jerry Nadler loudly broadcasted the Democrats' real agenda to a whole train-full of people.
> 
> _Judiciary Committee ranking member Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., revealed plans for House Democrats to investigate and impeach Justice Brett Kavanaugh for alleged perjury and investigate and impeach President Donald Trump for alleged treasonous collusion with Russia.
> 
> In post-election chats with various callers while riding the Acela train from New York to Washington, Nadler gave advice to a newly elected representative and discussed potential 2020 Democratic presidential nominees with another. He also lamented identity politics and the thriving economy and worried about Democrats losing working-class voters while gaining elite former Republicans and suburban women._​


Damn that thriving economy!!!


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Damn that thriving economy!!!


What's also great is that the inevitable downturn/recession will fall squarely at the feet of the Dems.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Jim Acosta s'more.

Trump White House Revokes Jim Acosta's WH Pass, Denying Him Entry on to the Grounds



> _White House @PressSec says it is suspending @Acosta WH credentials (called a “hard pass”) after today’s press conference.
> — Jeff Mason (@jeffmason1) November 8, 2018
> 
> This conduct is absolutely unacceptable. It is also completely disrespectful to the reporter’s colleagues not to allow them an opportunity to ask a question. President Trump has given the press more access than any President in history.
> — Sarah Sanders (@PressSec) November 8, 2018_​


Related:

This Is CNN



> _ CNN’s Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta’s press pass to access the White House was suspended Wednesday, hours after he engaged in a contentious back-and-forth with President Trump.
> 
> Acosta tweeted: “I’ve just been denied entrance to the WH. Secret Service just informed me I cannot enter the WH grounds for my 8pm hit.”_​


Good! The weasel...

However...

Shocker: The Cucks Come Out to Defend Acosta



> I don't usually link Paul Joseph Watson but he is 100% correct here.
> 
> _If blocking an intern from taking a mic is assault then Lewandowski actually murdered Michelle Fields and now I’m friends with a ghost
> — Bethany S. Mandel (@bethanyshondark) November 8, 2018_​
> I mean, at what point do people admit to themselves that Ben Shapiro is more interested in promoting his Donor Supported Career and drinking _conservative_ tears than advancing any kind of conservative agenda?


No surprise.


----------



## Beej

Progressive thoughts: white people in Texas are racist so they voted for Cruz instead of O'Rourke.

I'm not saying all progressives think this...


----------



## FeXL

Ran across this comment this morning. 

Trump is going to leverage their TDS.



> Its a given they are going to make Pelosi speaker and anyone in Democrat ranks that feels otherwise will be Clintonized.
> Trump announces that he thinks she should be speaker.
> This immediately causes a conflict in the minds of the “resistance” as their response to any action by Trump is to start protesting in the streets.
> Now to maintain their logic, they must oppose Pelosi for speaker but by doing so go against the party establishment.
> The end result is they end up agreeing with Trump or they throw Pelosi under the bus to maintain their cognitive dissonance.
> Winning


Prog heads exploding... 

:lmao: :clap: :lmao: :clap: :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Looks like Trump is considering Chris Christie for AG. Did not support his presidential bid, but I like the idea of someone so pugnacious in the position. Hope Trump moves quickly to confirm the nom.


----------



## FeXL

(language warning, further down the page)

The Morning Rant: J.V. Edition



> Romney's most fervent desire is to be seen as some kind of great statesman who is above the partisan fray. Little does he realize that the few politicians who were able to project that kind of an image were ideologically grounded. Mittens is simply an opportunist with a nice smile. And the opportunity he has just seized is to take a jab at the President of the United States, the man at the head of his party, and the man with whom is is supposed have a working relationship. What a little worm Romney has turned out to be!
> 
> _I want to thank Jeff Sessions for his service to our country as Attorney General. Under Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker, it is imperative that the important work of the Justice Department continues, and that the Mueller investigation proceeds to its conclusion unimpeded.
> — Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) November 7, 2018_​
> *The man hasn't even been seated yet and he has to take a pot-shot at President Trump? How about a more honorable and loyal comment such as, "I welcome Mr. Whittaker to this vitally important position, and wish him the best of luck." Or a really good one such as, "Mr. Whittaker will bring sanity to the overheated rhetoric emerging from the partisan investigation into supposed Russian tampering. It is far past the time when the Department of Justice focuses on real crime instead of politically motivated witch-hunts."*


M'bold.

Yeppers.

And this, at the bottom of the article, on an unrelated Prog issue:



> Your right to free speech stops when you spray me with kale-flecked spit.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

The word "cuck" was invented for Romney.


----------



## 18m2

*Pimp Dennis Hof wins a Nevada legislative seat after his death*

The electorate must have felt a dead Republican is better than a live Democrat.



> LAS VEGAS -- Nevada brothel owner and reality TV star Dennis Hof died last month but still won a heavily GOP state legislative district after fashioning himself as a Donald Trump-style Republican candidate.
> 
> County officials will appoint a Republican to take Hof's place in the state Assembly. He was found dead Oct. 16 after a weekend of parties celebrating his 72nd birthday. Officials are still determining his cause of death, but they don't suspect foul play.
> 
> He beat Democratic educator Lesia Romanov for Nevada's 36th Assembly District, which includes rural communities and large stretches of desert in the southern part of the state.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/dead-brothel-owner-wins-election-for-nevada-legislative-seat-1.4166900


----------



## FeXL

18m2 said:


> The electorate must have felt a dead Republican is better than a live Democrat.


I can find no error in what you noted...


----------



## FeXL

Don't they mean the 9th _Circus_?

9th Circuit: Trump Cannot Use an Executive Order to Reverse Obama's Executive Order on DACA Because We Like Obama and ORANGE MAN BAD



> Anticipating another outbreak of Hawaiian Judge Syndrome, the Trump Administration asked two days ago for the Supreme Court to take authority from the 9th Circuit and decide the cases themselves.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Let's talk Jim Acosta s'more.
> 
> [.....
> 
> No surprise.


_Care to walk back your position,?_

*White House Smears CNN Reporter With Doctored Video*


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> _Care to walk back your position,?_
> 
> *White House Smears CNN Reporter With Doctored Video*


All due respect to Truthdig, but it looks like the result of conversion to a low quality format for sharing. If that's the case, shared gifs are now "doctored". It looks like nothing happened and, somehow, this has been turned into two deeply believed somethings by different tribes.

Without further information, why would someone push either "side" of this?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I wonder whatever happened to that caravan that was supposedly about to invade the US?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I wonder whatever happened to that caravan that was supposedly about to invade the US?


Pretty easy to figure out. Still on the way, but no longer a big interest to the US mainstream media if it will not help their election chances.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/caravan-migrants-trump-1.4897562


----------



## CubaMark

Beej said:


> All due respect to Truthdig, but it looks like the result of conversion to a low quality format for sharing. If that's the case, shared gifs are now "doctored". It looks like nothing happened and, somehow, this has been turned into two deeply believed somethings by different tribes.
> 
> Without further information, why would someone push either "side" of this?


The folks at Fox "News" seem to think it's authentic....

*Fox News' Howard Kurtz Criticized Sarah Sanders For Tweeting Phony Video From InfoWars*

After host Sandra Smith played video of Acosta and the White House intern, Kurtz said the White House made him a martyr by suspending his credentials after he was being rude.

Smith then read off the press secretary's tweet defending the White House decision on Acosta by claiming he physically assaulted an intern and then read off the WHCA' response.

Kurtz replied, "Yeah, I think it’s a misstep on the part of the White House to claim that Jim Acosta was laying his hands on this young intern who tried to take the mic away, the contact was very incidental."

Kurtz continued. “I also think it was a misstep for Sarah Sanders to tweet out a doctored video, put out by Infowars, the Alex Jones conspiracy site, that kind of made it look more aggressive then it was.”

Calling SHS out for promoting a phony video by Alex Jones of all people is more than "a misstep," Howard, but at least you didn't cosign their outrageous behavior.

It was a fraudulent video, period. How can any reporter or American trust what the White House uses as evidence ever again?

(C&L)​


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> The folks at Fox "News" seem to think it's authentic....


You could watch the videos and decide for yourself. At least, I think you could do that.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The folks at Fox "News" seem to think it's authentic....


Since you disagree with FOX on pretty much anything, they must be right when they agree with you on something? Hell of a way to make decisions.


----------



## CubaMark

Here's Global News' video, not the White House repost of the InfoWars version of the video:
(the interaction with the staffer begins at 1:27)





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






That does not look to me like any sort of inappropriate contact. The staffer reached across his body to grab the mic, his left arm was already in the air as he addressed Trump, and her action resulted in Acosta dropping his left arm onto hers. 

The White House might as well be accusing Acosta of committing sexual assault live on national television, their spin is like a dreidel spun by superman... 

Typical distraction strategy by the Trump regime.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> That does not look to me like any sort of inappropriate contact.


So why claim a video was "doctored"?

Politico has a frame by frame so you can decide on the doctoring yourself.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/08/cnn-white-house-altered-video-975080

Doctored or not, they both show the same (unimportant) arm and hand movements. Instead of focusing on the dramatic overstatement of what happened by the Whitehouse, many media outlets jumped to "doctored! infowars! bad!".

And people were happy to oblige and spread the word.

Doesn't make you curious?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I wonder whatever happened to that caravan that was supposedly about to invade the US?


Looks like Soros stopped paying for logistical support after the election. Leaving them on their own for transport, food and shelter.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Pretty easy to figure out. Still on the way, but no longer a big interest to the US mainstream media if it will not help their election chances.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/caravan-migrants-trump-1.4897562




No longer a big interest to Trump as a distraction during the midterms, you mean.


----------



## SINC

The NY Post has spotted the trouble with MSM:

*Jim Acosta violated one of the oldest rules of journalism*

From the story this quote:



> The conduct of a handful of so-called reporters during President Trump’s news conference was disgraceful beyond measure. This is not journalism, this is narcissism.
> 
> Naturally, the boorish Jim Acosta of CNN was the instigator. As is his habit, Acosta doesn’t ask questions — he makes accusations and argues. Almost daily, he does it with the press secretary; Wednesday, he did it with the president.
> 
> “I want to challenge you,” Acosta began after Trump called on him. Trump realized he’d made a mistake, murmuring, “Here we go,” and Acosta didn’t disappoint.
> 
> He insisted that despite the president’s use of the word “invasion,” the caravan of Central American migrants “is not an invasion.”


Full details at the link:

https://nypost.com/2018/11/07/jim-a...ok&utm_medium=Native&utm_campaign=NYPFacebook


----------



## Macfury

The "caravan" is still being rebuffed when it arrives. The mainstream media no longer covers the caravan or Trump's response to the caravan regarding this issue.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No longer a big interest to Trump as a distraction during the midterms, you mean.


----------



## CubaMark

Beej said:


> So why claim a video was "doctored"?


The Global video that I posted was not the InfoWars version.



> Politico has a frame by frame so you can decide on the doctoring yourself.


There is a quite apparent difference between the two videos. The InfoWars exaggerates Acosta's arm movement. And the White House' description of the encounter as Acosta "laying hands on a woman" is laughable, especially from President PussyGrab.

Regardless... as I noted above - _distraction_. Outrageous bull**** on the tv screens, nefarious policy implementation and legislation off on the second monitor that nobody watches....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> And the White House' description of the encounter as Acosta "laying hands on a woman" is laughable, especially from President PussyGrab.


One is an allegation. The Acosta incident was executed on camera.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. As in, not an f'ing chance.

Learn. Watch, CM. Here's my litmus test:

I reverse the roles. In this instance, I put Accoster in Sanders role & put Sanders in Accoster's position. Then, I envision the response from the compassionate, intellectual, Prog left. 

In that particular scenario, the left would be losing their $h!t.

Case closed.

Related:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38155/cnns-claim-sarah-sanders-pushed-actual-fake-news-james-barrett



> In other words, all CNN ended up doing was making sure that more people saw footage of Acosta's embarrassing behavior and highlighting their own paranoia about the imagined machinations of the White House. That's a terrible day — and it just keeps getting worse: *WATCH: CNN's Acosta Lies About Not Touching Aide, CNN Edits Video*





CubaMark said:


> Care to walk back your position,?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Since you disagree with FOX on pretty much anything, they must be right when they agree with you on something? Hell of a way to make decisions.


You don't actually expect logic to be found within a hunnert feet of a Prog argument, do you?


----------



## FeXL

Where was your post critical of The Dope in Elbowgate?



CubaMark said:


> That does not look to me like any sort of inappropriate contact.


Accoster conducted himself like an asshole, right from the get go. He wasn't asking a question, he was making an accusation. As was his second. One would expect a modicum of decorum from all visitors to the White House, whether the Press Room or the Oval Office. 

Push, push, push. He found Trump's limit & now Accoster is all butthurt? Pulease...

Sexual assault? Spin, spin, spin...



CubaMark said:


> The White House might as well be accusing Acosta of committing sexual assault live on national television, their spin is like a dreidel spun by superman...


FTFY...



CubaMark said:


> Typical distraction strategy by the Progs.


----------



## FeXL

Once the MSM lost interest in it, Trump no longer needed to defend himself on it.

Cause & effect, Freddie. You have them reversed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No longer a big interest to Trump as a distraction during the midterms, you mean.


----------



## FeXL

Election Update: Democrats Stealing Arizona, In Process of Manufacturing Votes to Steal both Governor and Senate Seats in Florida



> Sinema pulls into "the lead," according to Democrat vote counters.
> 
> Marco Rubio offered a fairly impassioned (for him) warning about the Democrats' efforts to manufacture votes in Broward County, never saying how many votes they supposedly had to count or where they had supposedly be hidden until now, but suddenly producing just the right number of votes for Democrats.


Stunning coincidence.

They're Stealing Florida and the Media Is Applauding and, Get This, So Are the NeverTrumpers



> _You mean they are just now finding votes in Florida and Georgia – but the Election was on Tuesday? Let’s blame the Russians and demand an immediate apology from President Putin!
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 9, 2018_​
> 
> 
> They're " " " " " finding " " " " " new votes, it seems:
> 
> _Caught On Video: Concerned citizen sees ballots being transported in private vehicles & transferred to rented truck on Election night. This violates all chain of custody requirements for paper ballots. Were the ballots destroyed & replaced by set of fake ballots? Investigate now! pic.twitter.com/GUPZnz7Gny
> — Tim Canova (@Tim_Canova) November 8, 2018_​


More:



> Update: Wow.
> 
> _Oh, NBD. Just a now-deleted tweet from @PamKeithFL, a Democratic candidate for Congress, soliciting volunteers to commit election fraud. pic.twitter.com/0k4r5jkMcG
> — Eric Spencer (@JustEric) November 8, 2018_​


Nope. No way. Not a chance in hell. There is no, zero, chance of election fraud in the US. Uh-unh.

Questions, questions, questions:

Levin: Why do Democrats ‘always manage to pick up votes after the fact?’



> Thursday on the radio, LevinTV host Mark Levin alerted listeners to the continued ballot-counting in Florida, which Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, R, called an attempt by “[D]emocrat lawyers” to steal the election.
> 
> Florida law requires counties to report early voting results within 30 minutes after polls close, but Broward and Palm Beach Counties in Florida are still counting and refusing to disclose the number of ballots remaining to be counted, Rubio said.
> 
> “You see, we not only have to win elections, we have to win them with enough of a buffer that all the cheating that goes on doesn’t affect the outcome,” Levin said.


Florida Official Overseeing Vote Count Destroyed Ballots, Accused of Not Removing Dead Voters from Rolls



> Broward County Board of Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes is in charge of vote counting in the area and has yet to disclose how many ballots are still not counted despite the election for governor and Senate occurring two days ago.
> 
> Currently, in the Senate race, Republican Rick Scott is leading Democrat incumbent Bill Nelson by more than 20,000 votes. Nelson is hoping for a blowout in Broward County to push him over the edge for re-election.
> 
> Snipes was confronted by local media about why the vote count in Broward County has taken so long.


Broward County, Broward Country, that sounds so familiar... Ah! The Broward Cowards!!!

The Morning Rant



> "So it looks like the Democrats are trying to steal elections in Florida, Arizona, and Georgia. Arizona is completely depressing, because that one never should have been close enough to steal. But that's another topic. My point is, why, in all of these close races with the Republican in the lead always seem to be won by the Democrat? They're always coming up with hitherto unknown boxes of boxes of ballots that are all marked for the Democrat. I have never heard 'oh look, here's a bunch of *GOP* ballots in this closet here that, pinky swear, have been here all this time.' Never, not once. I refuse to believe that the reason is because Republicans are more virtuous than Democrats. However, I do think it's because they're more naive. They would much rather pretend that the vote-counting process is not at all corrupt and then say 'oops, looks like we lost after all, oh well' rather than rushing a slick of lawyers down to Broward County and actually putting up a fight. Trump, though, they'll fight him. Because Russian collusion. Not Democrats, though. Democrats would *never* collude with corrupt election officials to steal an election."


Once again, my litmus test: If Republicans were suddenly finding "lost" or "late" or whatever ballots or the ballots were still being counted two days after the election or boxes of ballots were showing up in the back of a Buick after the election & the Dems were losing seats, the Dems would be LTS.


----------



## FeXL

Scenes from a Coup



> Good thread on the frequently irregularities -- and illegalities -- perpetrated by the Broward election commission.
> 
> "Dishonest and dumb," I'm sure.
> 
> Anything to protect the left and the CNN #HeroesOfTheResistance.


Related:

Scott Wins Lawsuit Against Broward County's Criminal Elections Commissioner



> *UPDATE: OH MY GOD.*
> 
> _A new & troubling allegation has emerged. A statement under penalty of perjury that #PalmBeachCounty filled out new ballots to replace damaged ones without allowing campaign representative to witness the process of creating the new ballot as required by #Florida law
> — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) November 9, 2018_​
> 
> 
> That is _literally_ "creating new votes," and once again, Snipes deliberately avoided all the laws which are in place _precisely to prevent fraud during this operation_.
> 
> Why would she do that, if fraud was not her actual mission?


More:



> Even Marco Rubio -- few people's idea of a partisan warrior; he had a mutual pact with Senator Nelson that neither would campaign against the other -- is outraged:
> 
> _Early Voting in #BrowardCounty ended 108 hours ago. Every other county,including neighboring Miami-Dade (which had 100k more votes cast) was able to canvass,tabulate & report to state by deadline. But #Broward still hasn’t finished & won’t disclose how many ballots are left.
> — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) November 9, 2018_​


----------



## FeXL

Further on TuCa

Tucker Carlson: The Mob Came to Terrorize Wife So That I Would Give Up My Free Speech



> Before getting to Sexton's article:
> 
> _ “The protesters had blocked off both ends of his street and carried signs that listed his home address.” They also cracked his front door. Wow. https://t.co/yXP3tK1p33
> — Guy Benson (@guypbenson) November 8, 2018_​
> That is ominous. I don't know what their plan was here but it is worrying that they attempted a military/siege style blockade of all roads to and away from Tucker Carlson's house.


Curious, that:

Vox Employee That Condoned Violence Against The Wife Of Tucker Carlson Deletes Every Tweet He’s Ever Sent



> Vox employee Matt Yglesias deleted all of his tweets Thursday night after facing criticism for defending the attacks against Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s wife.
> 
> Yglesias announced on Twitter Thursday morning that he “honestly cannot empathize with Tucker Carlson’s wife” after members of Antifa swarmed her home and cracked the front door Wednesday night.
> 
> “I think the idea behind terrorizing his family, like it or not as a strategy, is to make them feel some of the fear that the victims of MAGA-inspired violence feel thanks to the non-stop racial incitement coming from Tucker, Trump, etc.” Yglesias tweeted before deleting it.


Related:

Antifa expands its hit list as political violence escalates



> When a mob of left-wing antifa activists descended Wednesday night on Fox News personality Tucker Carlson’s D.C. home, it signaled a new phase in the political violence and angry confrontations that now are targeting the news media.
> 
> Political violence has been rising in the U.S. since 2012, according to the Global Terrorism Database. Increasingly aggressive activists have pushed political confrontation to the limit since 2016, accosting Republican lawmakers and Trump administration officials in restaurants and in the halls of Congress. And now they’re going after conservative journalists at their homes.
> 
> “Tucker Carlson, we will fight. We know where you sleep at night!” the activists allied with antifa chanted outside Mr. Carlson’s home.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Regardless... as I noted above - _distraction_.


Which is the headline you lead with. Not going to the unimportant substance (left: ridiculous overstatement of what happened; right: Accosta was behaving badly), or something of more substance. 

You saw one distraction and picked the other side's distraction as a first response.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> You saw one distraction and picked the other side's distraction as a first response.


Very astute.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Florida election supervisors s'more.

IT’S ONLY A WAR ON THE FIRST AMENDMENT WHEN REPUBLICANS CRITICIZE THE PRESS, NOT WHEN DEMOCRATS OPENLY THREATEN ARRESTS FOR REPORTING



> Weird. The Palm Beach elections supervisor threatened to arrest reporters and it’s not a bigger story.
> 
> Related: No big deal, just Palm Beach County refusing to comply with the recount court order.


Whoops! Brenda Snipes’ office mixed bad provisional ballots with good ones



> Broward’s elections supervisor accidentally mixed more than a dozen rejected ballots with nearly 200 valid ones, a circumstance that is unlikely to help Brenda Snipes push back against Republican allegations of incompetence.
> 
> The mistake — for which no one had a solution Friday night — was discovered after Snipes agreed to present 205 provisional ballots to the Broward County canvassing board for inspection. She had initially intended to handle the ballots administratively, but agreed to present them to the canvassing board after Republican attorneys objected.


And, before the Progs start screaming blue murder about it's "only a dozen ballots" one of you posted an article elsewhere you thought newsworthy enough that talked about "only" 10 white supremacists that had never actually killed anybody in Canada. In addition, this story also passes my litmus test: the Progs would be out in full <snort> force if they were on the receiving end of this injustice.


----------



## Dr.G.

Luckily, the US Marines who fought and died in the Battle of Belleau Wood were made of sterner stuff than Pres. Trump. This battle is inscribed at the base of the USMC Monument in Washington, DC.

"U.S. President Donald Trump is attracting criticism after he cancelled a trip to a cemetery for American war dead near Paris — due to rainy weather.

Trump had been scheduled to take part in a wreath-laying ceremony at the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery and observe a moment of silence at the site.

The site marks the 1918 Battle of Belleau Wood, in which some 1,800 American soldiers perished over a three-week period while fighting alongside French troops to repel German forces."

https://globalnews.ca/news/4651220/...odI9ES5uL7YyvEzopV7BpQPsIbTc8WxQh6FwNN1EW9NVw


----------



## Dr.G.

Lest we forget ............... Paix, mes amis.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, the US Marines who fought and died in the Battle of Belleau Wood were made of sterner stuff than Pres. Trump.


One would _hope_...

It's not like Barry never cancelled anything during his reign, Dr.G.

If all the criticism you can mount against Trump is this, that's pretty thin gruel. At least he holds his own umbrella, instead of getting a Marine to do it.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> At least he holds his own umbrella, instead of getting a Marine to do it.


Well.... I don't think that's exactly Trump's forté either... :lmao:  :lmao:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkkdrjDsTA[/ame]


----------



## Beej

Attacking Tucker Carlson and family is the latest fad in "activism".

Avenatti takes on Tucker Carlson after bar incident involving Fox News host’s children
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/10/michael-avenatti-tucker-carlson-bar-incident-982944


> Carlson, in a lengthy statement provided through Fox News, said the incident began when a man at the club last month verbally harassed his teenage daughter on her way back from a bathroom and called her a “whore” and “****.”
> 
> He acknowledged that his son then confronted the man and threw wine at him. But Carlson maintains neither he nor his son assaulted the man involved. Avenatti disputed that account, saying it’s an “absolute lie.”


Interested in the perspective of ehmac dads on this one.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Interested in the perspective of ehmac dads on this one.


You could split any responses into "dads" and "progressive sperm donors."


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You could split any responses into "dads" and "progressive sperm donors."


:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Who said anything about professional umbrella holders? My point was, he holds his own umbrella (as opposed to farming it out to some poor, humuliated Marine), as awkward as it may sometimes be.

You want funny? Look at what happened to Obongo the first time a Marine wasn't there to hold his umbrella for him. It's no wonder he struggled with complex topics like economics and domestic & foreign policy. Michelle's body language says it all...

Obama struggles to get umbrella through gate.



CubaMark said:


> Well.... I don't think that's exactly Trump's forté either...


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Interested in the perspective of ehmac dads on this one.


An "adult" calls any of my children by those, or a veritable slew of lesser terms? 

beejaconbeejaconbeejacon

An adolescent? I come looking for their parents. Same response:

beejaconbeejaconbeejacon

You play a man's game? You play a man's rules...


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Interested in the perspective of ehmac dads on this one.


When my daughter was 19 (She's now 48) she would have slapped that creep upside the head and ended it right there with no assistance from me or her brothers. (She's 5' 11" and 160 pounds without an ounce of fat.)

I would never have got involved, as my kids could always take care of themselves. 

About 25 years ago when No. 1 son was in his mid 20s, a guy with a knife tried to rob a gas station in south Edmonton early one morning when he was gassing up on his way to work and was at the counter when the dope came in. He tackled him, got control of the knife and held him down on the floor until the cops got there and took him away.

Never needed to intervene for my kids, nor would I. They all had to find there own way, and find it the right way they did. Just sayin'.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That's a terribly inept analogy.


----------



## Beej

This could go in the Canadian or International threads as well, but the source and references are U.S.

5 Signs You’re In The Midst Of A Moral Panic
https://www.dailywire.com/news/36493/5-signs-youre-midst-moral-panic-ashe-schow


> We’re now told, quite firmly, that due process keeps sexual assault victims from coming forward. Having to tell their story multiple times, having to face their accuser, having to provide evidence of their claims, being questioned about inconsistencies or fallacies — all these things are now considered harmful, but only for those making sexual assault accusations. Accusers of other crimes are still seen as capable of surviving the legal system.





> Multiple surveys were created during the Satanic Panic. One limited survey conducted by psychologist Richard Peterson, who worked with police during Paul Ingram’s investigation, found about 25% of therapists in Tacoma and Seattle had treated alleged victims of satanic abuse. A survey from the American Psychological Association conducted in 1991 found that 30% of respondents had treated someone alleging ritual abuse, and 93% of those said in a follow-up survey that they believed the claims.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




That’s an incredibly adept analogy.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s an incredibly adept analogy.


Can't quite wrap my head around the phrase 'adept analogy'. Just seems off and a peek at the dictionary confirms it.

Never hurts to look up a word in the dictionary if you are unsure of the meaning. It's better than spewing out inept phraseology.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Can't quite wrap my head around the phrase 'adept analogy'. Just seems off and a peek at the dictionary confirms it.
> 
> Never hurts to look up a word in the dictionary if you are unsure of the meaning. It's better than spewing out inept phraseology.




Perhaps you missed the comment that I was mocking. Helps to read the whole recent thread before you make a comment that makes you look a little like a fool. Not adept at all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


All my grandparents came from Europe. Some came to America, some to Canada.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttDUGM-1mU[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> All my grandparents came from Europe. Some came to America, some to Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttDUGM-1mU[/ame]




I’ve always considered it a strength, not a weakness.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> I’ve always considered it a strength, not a weakness.


True. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> This could go in the Canadian or International threads as well, but the source and references are U.S.



Interesting read. Thx for the link.


----------



## Macfury

That's ridiculous. Do some research before you post something. Citizens of countries all over the world refer to others as immigrants.



Dr.G. said:


> All my grandparents came from Europe. Some came to America, some to Canada.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttDUGM-1mU


----------



## Macfury

eMAcMan was bang on. You blew it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you missed the comment that I was mocking. Helps to read the whole recent thread before you make a comment that makes you look a little like a fool. Not adept at all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> eMAcMan was bang on. You blew it.




Awfully grumpy today, you are. Forget breakfast?


----------



## wonderings

I am really not sure where all this talk about immigrants is coming from. The issue is ILLEGAL immigration and as far as I know both parties in the US are against it, they just have different ideas on what the immigration policies should be. No one is discounting the role immigrants have had in founding the country or the importance they can play. The issue people have is not doing it the correct way. I am from a family of immigrants as well who went through the process of becoming citizens just like every other person who immigrated here.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I am really not sure where all this talk about immigrants is coming from. The issue is ILLEGAL immigration and as far as I know both parties in the US are against it....


No they're not. A large portion of the Democrat party believes anyone who wants to cross the border should not be prevented from doing so and they will not cooperate with any authority reporting or deporting illegal immigrants--as a matter of policy.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> No they're not. A large portion of the Democrat party believes anyone who wants to cross the border should not be prevented from doing so and they will not cooperate with any authority reporting or deporting illegal immigrants--as a matter of policy.


So they are in support of illegal actions then and ok with breaking the law. I can understand if they want to change the policy to allow this, but as of right now it would be an illegal action to cross into the US without going through a legal border crossing and be accepted into the US by US Customs and border patrol.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> So they are in support of illegal actions then and ok with breaking the law. I can understand if they want to change the policy to allow this, but as of right now it would be an illegal action to cross into the US without going through a legal border crossing and be accepted into the US by US Customs and border patrol.


In a word, yes. They believe unlimited migration into the US is a human right. Democrat-run "sanctuary cities", for example, openly thwart the law in hiding illegal immigrants from law enforcement, refuse to cooperate with them on any level and provide services to them on the taxpayer's dime. The state of California is fully supportive of its sanctuary cities. 

Several Democrats ran on the policy that they would abolish federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which is the group tasked with deporting illegal aliens.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> So they are in support of illegal actions then and ok with breaking the law.


The main reason the Dems are fine with this is that both legal immigrants & illegal aliens overwhelmingly vote left. If they voted right, the Progs themselves would be lined up at the border with weapons, razor wire & 50 foot high concrete walls.

It's also one of the main reasons why Canadian Liberals are so bent & bound on importing millions of votes.


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Hillary Clinton will run for president again in 2020, former adviser says



> Hillary Clinton will run for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020, according to a former adviser and a top Democrat in New York.
> 
> Mark Penn, a pollster and senior adviser to former President Bill Clinton and ex-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from 1995-2008, and Andrew Stein, a former Manhattan Democratic party figure and New York City Council president, wrote Sunday in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece that the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee would not let "two stunning defeats stand in the way of *her claim* to the White House."


M'bold.

???

She can claim whatever the hell she wants. Whether it actually gets realized, however, is entirely another matter... :lmao:

More:



> "Mrs. Clinton has a 75% approval rating among Democrats, an unfinished mission to be the first female president, and a personal grievance against Mr. Trump, whose supporters pilloried her with chants of 'Lock her up!' *This must be avenged*," the pair continued.


Don't they mean, "realized"? :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Further on butthurt Accoster.

CNN Sues White House to Get Jim Accoster's Credentials Restored; Sarah Sanders Says Nah Brah



> How could women (both real and pretend) feel safe around this toxic male?
> 
> Sarah Sanders called the move "more grandstanding from CNN."
> 
> _@JenniferJJacobs "Just more grandstanding from CNN, and we will vigorously defend against this lawsuit," @PressSec says. "CNN, who has nearly 50 additional hard pass holders, and Mr. Acosta is no more or less special than any other media outlet or reporter with respect to the 1st Amendment."
> 
> @JenniferJJacobs
> "White House cannot run an orderly and fair press conference when a reporter acts this way, which is neither appropriate nor professional. The 1st Amendment is not served when a single reporter, of more than 150 present, attempts to monopolize the floor." -Sarah Huckabee Sanders_​


More:

Now THIS reads like ‘Dear Diary’: Jim Acosta has serious case of the sadz in his ‘declaration’ supporting CNN’s lawsuit

:-(

...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

When the FBI does it, it's not illegal...

James Comey used personal email to discuss FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton's email server



> Former FBI Director James Comey used his personal email account to discuss his agency's investigation into Hillary Clinton's unauthorized private email server.
> 
> Through a Freedom of Information lawsuit, the Cause of Action Institute, a conservative watchdog group, obtained some of the emails Comey sent from a Gmail account and revealed them Friday evening.
> 
> In one email sent on Sept. 30 to James Rybicki, Comey's chief of staff, the FBI director shared a Fox News article about how Russia-linked hackers tried to access Clinton's email server.
> 
> "Need to be sure our colleagues across the street don't think I actually said most of the stuff they attribute to me," he told Rybicki.
> 
> In a separate email a week later, Comey was aware that the revelation of his use of a personal email account for government business would be “embarrassing."
> 
> "Okay but [redacted] was going to email my written testimony to me. He will need to send to personal email I suppose. Embarrassing for us," the email said. The recipient's name is redacted, but Rybicki was carbon-copied.
Click to expand...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

S’more on Donald the Saviour. 










 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/...-louis/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> S’more on Donald the Saviour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/...-louis/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


Amen Brother. 

I can just imagine Trump's second inaugural address -- how it will differ from Lincoln's second inaugural address.

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations." Pres. Lincoln's second inaugural address on March 4, 1865

"You have nothing to fear .............. but me. I am the Lord thy God, and thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me. As well, thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Don't believe what the fake news says of me.” Pres. Trump's second inaugural address tweet, since it was raining on Inauguration Day in Washington, DC, and he was in Florida playing golf.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Donald Trump knows the true meaning of sacrifice. 










 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opi...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fa4b8667510d


----------



## Dr.G.

There is always an honor guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier ............ despite the weather on any day of the year.


----------



## Macfury

Jeepers Freddie--you never once called out Obama for his international political cowardice.


----------



## FeXL

Dr.G. said:


> I can just imagine Trump's second inaugural address...


I can, too: "I just beat Bill's Wife. Again..."



Dr.G. said:


> ...and he was in Florida playing golf.


Yeah. And?

Where was your criticism of Barry's numerous tours around the links?


----------



## FeXL

Good.

WH Chief of Staff John Kelly, Deputy NSA Mira Ricardel, and DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen Might All Be Fired from Trump Administration


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> There is always an honor guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier ............ despite the weather on any day of the year.




Definitely not a job for President Bonespurs.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Definitely not a job for President Bonespurs.


It is a true honor to be trained and selected to be one of the three honor guards. I don't think that many could pass the training ........... I know that I could not. As for Cadet Bonespurs ................... tptptptp


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> As for Cadet Bonespurs ................... tptptptp


----------



## Dr.G.

Beej said:


>


I should have put it in quotes, in that it is not my creation. A retired US Marine who had his grandfather wounded at the Battle of Belleau Wood, which was the US version of Vimy Ridge, was interviewed and said this out loud. He was disgusted with the lack of respect that Pres. Trump showed to fallen US Marines and US Army soldiers.

Paix, mon ami. Lest we forget.


----------



## Beej

Dr.G. said:


> I should have put it in quotes, in that it is not my creation. A retired US Marine who had his grandfather wounded at the Battle of Belleau Wood, which was the US version of Vimy Ridge, was interviewed and said this out loud. He was disgusted with the lack of respect that Pres. Trump showed to fallen US Marines and US Army soldiers.
> 
> Paix, mon ami. Lest we forget.


Thanks for the clarification. This vet blew a raspberry when commenting on the matter? That's a mix of funny/sad.


----------



## Macfury

There were a large number of U.S. service people who would not look Obama in the eye or shake his hand--they were disgusted with him



Dr.G. said:


> I should have put it in quotes, in that it is not my creation. A retired US Marine who had his grandfather wounded at the Battle of Belleau Wood, which was the US version of Vimy Ridge, was interviewed and said this out loud. He was disgusted with the lack of respect that Pres. Trump showed to fallen US Marines and US Army soldiers.
> 
> Paix, mon ami. Lest we forget.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There were a large number of U.S. service people who would not look Obama in the eye or shake his hand--they were disgusted with him




You sure seem fixated on the man who has not been President for the past two years. Care to comment on some of the foibles of the current commander in chief?


----------



## Macfury

Coming from someone who was silent during Obama's disastrous reign of error, that request seems disingenuous.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem fixated on the man who has not been President for the past two years. Care to comment on some of the foibles of the current commander in chief?


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

This coming from the guy who is still fixated on Ralph Klein's "40% paycut", despite the fact he's been dead for 5 years.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem fixated on the man who has not been President for the past two years.


----------



## FeXL

Little over the hill to be talking like a valley girl...

Michelle O: Like, Like, You Know, Like, Dude, You Know?



> Michelle Obama is kicking off the publicity tour for her new book, “Becoming,” but her first media appearance got off to a rocky start.
> 
> Despite being heavily edited so she spoke for little more than 45 seconds, Michelle Obama sounded more like a millennial girl chatting on Snapchat than a former First Lady. Throughout her responses to ABC’s Robin Roberts, she repeatedly said “like,” “you know?” “um,” and even, “dude.”
> 
> “Barack Obama has always walked like Barack Obama, like, he has got all the time in the world,” she said of their first meeting. “He had that stride. I was, like, ‘Dude, you're cute,’ but in my mind, I was, like --“
> 
> Overall Obama said “you know” 10 times, “like” 9 times, and “um,” “yeah,” and “what?” another five times.


Like, totally, dude... :love2:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Where's that teleprompter when you need it? Perhaps she can borrow one of Barry's.


----------



## FeXL

Loopy-Ocasio Fiasco gettin' purty uppity...

UH-OH: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's First Appearance In D.C. Is At A PROTEST Against Nancy Pelosi — And Leftists AREN'T Happy



> Newly elected Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) made her first appearance in Washington, D.C., Tuesday, but the first item on her agenda has fellow Democrats seeing red.


I jes' luvs it when they eat their own... :lmao:

Related:

Ocasio-Cortez Joins Crowd of Youth Protesters at Nancy Pelosi’s Office



> Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio Cortez joined more than 200 youth activists in storming the office of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi Tuesday morning in order to get her to act on climate change.


Ah, yes. That most pressing of issues facing the planet, Globull Warming...


----------



## FeXL

It's not against the law when the left does it.

Feds close investigation of Bernie Sanders' wife



> Federal prosecutors in Vermont have closed their investigation into a college land deal involving the wife of U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and decided not to charge her, a spokesman for the couple said Tuesday.
> 
> Jane Sanders was informed by the U.S. attorney’s office that she would not be charged, Sanders spokesman Jeff Weaver said.
> 
> Jane Sanders is grateful the investigation is over.
> 
> “As she has said from the beginning, she has done nothing wrong and Jane is pleased that the matter has now come to a conclusion,” Weaver said in an email.


Oh, this is...precious:



> *U.S. attorney’s office spokesman Kraig LaPorte said he could not deny or confirm that an investigation took place.*


Yeah, my bold.

Serious? :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Freddie, here's more of Barry's legacy!

Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Three Was a DACA Recipient



> An illegal alien accused of killing three people has been a recipient of the Obama-era Deferred Action for Child Arrivals (DACA) program, immigration officials say.
> 
> A U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) spokesperson told the Springfield News-Leader that Luis Rodrigo Perez, 23, a Mexican national accused of killing three people in Missouri after jail officials released him on domestic violence charges in New Jersey, was a recipient of the DACA program in 2012 and 2014.


A twofer!

New Report Shows How Incredibly Wrong Obama Was About Energy Independence 



> Has any politician ever been more wrong than Barack Obama was about U.S. oil production and energy independence? Based on the latest report from the International Energy Agency, *the answer is unequivocally no.*


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hey, Freddie, here's more of Barry's legacy!


Wahhhh, Obama is gone already. Why not attack the person trying to fix his mess instead?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Wahhhh, Obama is gone already. Why not attack the person trying to fix his mess instead?


I predict the same pi$$ing & moaning from the same person about Red Rachel in a few short months.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I predict the same pi$$ing & moaning from the same person about Red Rachel in a few short months.


That would be like people complaining about Godzilla after he flattens Tokyo:

"Why are you so fixated on Godzilla? He left weeks ago."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The iron...
> 
> 
> 
> This coming from the guy who is still fixated on Ralph Klein's "40% paycut", despite the fact he's been dead for 5 years.




Irrelevant much?


----------



## FeXL

Relevant very much...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Irrelevant much?


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Relevant very much...


Is the "much" thing trying to make a comeback? If so, I would like to resurrect some earlier pop culture lingo.

Heavy, boss, and so on.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> Is the "much" thing trying to make a comeback? If so, I would like to resurrect some earlier pop culture lingo.
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy, boss, and so on.



Knock yourself out, dude.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Is the "much" thing trying to make a comeback?


I think there are some culturally challenged folk who never knew it left.

Was surprised the other day, watching an old SCTV episode circa 1982 in which someone throws out a line in the style of "X just called and he wants his _whatever_ back."


----------



## Macfury

Progressive cable new darling and anti-Trump lawyer Michael Avenatti arrested on domestic violence charges:

https://apnews.com/a75d5e0924764ba5...n=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter



> LOS ANGELES (AP) — Michael Avenatti, who skyrocketed to fame as a critic of President Donald Trump and the lawyer for porn actress Stormy Daniels, was arrested Wednesday and booked on a felony domestic violence charge, Los Angeles police said.
> 
> The victim in the case had visible injuries, according to Officer Tony Im, a police spokesman. But Avenatti slammed the allegation as “completely bogus” and “fabricated and meant to do harm to my reputation” in a statement released by his law firm.
> 
> Avenatti, who has said he’s mulling a 2020 presidential run, posted $50,000 bail and was released about four hours after he was arrested Wednesday on the same block where he lives in a skyscraper apartment.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Is the "much" thing trying to make a comeback?


Consider the source...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Avenatti.

Avenatti bailed out after being arrested on suspicion of felony domestic violence, says he’ll be ‘exonerated’



> Michael Avenatti, a frequent President Trump critic and the attorney for adult film star Stormy Daniels, made bail Wednesday evening after his arrest earlier on domestic violence charges and said he will be “fully exonerated.”
> 
> He later appeared before a group of reporters, again denying the accusations and thanking the LAPD, who he said "had no option in light of the allegations."
> 
> "I have never struck a woman. I never will strike a woman. I have been an advocate for women’s rights my entire career and I’m going to continue to be an advocate. I am not going to be intimidated from stopping what I am doing," he continued. "I am a father to two beautiful, smart daughters. I would never disrespect them by touching a woman inappropriately or striking a woman. I am looking forward to a full investigation at which point I am confident I will be fully exonerated. I also want to thank everyone for their support that has reached out. You know my character. You know me as a man and I appreciate it."


Related:

"She Hit Me First:" Defender of Women Everywhere, Michael Avenatti, Arrested for Felony Domestic Violence; Wife Female Victim Reportedly Seen "Swollen and Bruised"



> We probably should have seen this coming.
> 
> I'm pretty embarrassed I didn't call it.
> 
> He looks "hitty." Assuming a woman is smaller than he is, which is sort of a narrow window, because I hear he's not a very large fellow.
> 
> Michael ["Slappy"] Avenatti, who became famous for representing Stormy Daniels in her battle with President Trump, has been arrested for felony domestic violence ... law enforcement sources tell TMZ.
> 
> Our law enforcement sources say ["Pimp-Hand"] Avenatti was arrested Wednesday after his estranged wife filed a felony DV report. We're told her face was "swollen and bruised."
> 
> Our sources say the alleged incident occurred Tuesday, but there was a confrontation Wednesday between the two at an exclusive apartment building in the Century City area of L.A.
> 
> We're told during today's confrontation the woman ran out of the apartment building and was on the sidewalk on her cellphone with sunglasses covering her eyes, screaming on the phone, "I can't believe you did this to me."
> 
> We're told security brought her inside the building and Michael showed up 5 minutes later, ran into the building, *chasing after her. He screamed repeatedly, "She hit me first.*"


Links' bold.

BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!

Ya, mebbe not so much:

Women's March Chapter: We Don't #BelieveAllWomen When It Comes to St. Michael of the Blessed Right Hook



> Believe it or not, *the left is suddenly declaring, as if in one (nearly) unified voice, that #BelievingAllWomen is sooooo October 2018.*
> 
> Brett Kavanaugh wants to know if they waited for all the evidence in his case, or if the allegation was enough.
> 
> After all, a woman -- the victim -- did swear out this police complaint.
> 
> Something that Dr. Blasey of the incorruptible hippocampus never bothered to do.


Yeah, bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

Trump's sentencing reform efforts for non-violent criminals are laudable and long overdue. Silence from the Prog media:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ion_is_at_the_heart_of_the_american_idea.html


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Accoster & more proof of Fox's move to the political left..

Fox Files Briefing In Support of CNN's Curious Claim That Jim Acosta Is the One Citizen In the Whole of the US with a Constitutional Right to a WH Pass



> Cucks.
> 
> _Fox News will file an amicus brief in support of @Acosta and CNN. Thank you @FoxNews! Statement from Jay Wallace below: pic.twitter.com/1EyRkho0TK
> — CNN Communications (@CNNPR) November 14, 2018_​
> Meanwhile, James Freeman of the WSJ and Mollie Hemingway of somewhere or other disagree:
> 
> _The answer is quite obviously no, and it's beyond disappointing to see people who know better pretend otherwise. "Does the First Amendment require the President to listen to a partisan and inaccurate lecture?" https://t.co/OG4PYmaVvs
> — Mollie (@MZHemingway) November 14, 2018_​


----------



## 18m2

Trumps trade war with China is not going so well ...



> The man running the world’s largest container-shipping company says he has access to data that shows Donald Trump has so far failed to wean the U.S. off Chinese imports.
> 
> Soren Skou, the chief executive of A.P. Moller-Maersk A/S, says Chinese exports to the U.S. actually grew 5-10 percent last quarter. Meanwhile, U.S. exports to China fell by 25-30 percent.


https://gcaptain.com/maersk-ceo-say...9IDvTdCk7-m1efhf18n83lk9M6Gm14DLbHQSZdgrnfi-c


----------



## Macfury

That's good for the US, then. It's collecting a lot of federal money each time one of those boats unloads.



18m2 said:


> Trumps trade war with China is not going so well ...
> 
> 
> 
> https://gcaptain.com/maersk-ceo-say...9IDvTdCk7-m1efhf18n83lk9M6Gm14DLbHQSZdgrnfi-c


----------



## FeXL

Long overdue & merely scratching the surface...

Federal Judge Orders Hillary Clinton To Answer Long-Evaded Questions About Her Secret Server



> Via Mark Tapscott at Instapundit, a jidge has given Hillary Clinton a 30 day deadline to come clean.
> 
> Clean? Like with a BleachBit?
> 
> _A federal judge ordered former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to answer five questions she has avoided for years about her use of a private email server to conduct official U.S. diplomatic business.
> 
> U.S. District Court Judge Emmett Sullivan on Wednesday gave Clinton 30 days to respond under oath to five questions.
> 
> These questions were all put to her nearly four years ago in a lawsuit filed by the nonprofit government watchdog Judicial Watch.
> 
> The five questions are:
> 
> 1.) Who decided to create the clintonemail.com system?
> 
> 2.) When was it created?
> 
> 3.) Why was it created?
> 
> 4.) Who set it up?
> 
> 5.) When did it become operational?_​
> So, is she going to claim under oath to a judge who seems suspicious of her that she created the server just so she could use one iPad or whatever bull**** reason she's offered before?


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Accoster.

'This Isn't The Jim F***ing Acosta Show': Journalists Unload On CNN's Acosta



> Multiple reporters have privately complained about CNN's Jim Acosta in recent days as the reporter continues to wait on a federal judge's ruling as to whether he can at least temporarily restore the White House correspondent's press credentials.
> 
> *"A few CNN reporters told me that they’re embarrassed by Acosta & CNN," Republican strategist Arthur Schwartz said. "A WH correspondent from a major network (not Fox) told me 'This isn’t the Jim F*ing Acosta Show. We all hate him. He's an a**hole and he actually is disrespectful to the president.'"*


M'bold.

No argument.

When you've lost your Prog co-workers & peers...


----------



## FeXL

Of course she does.

Sharia law following soon...

After Winning Election, Democrat Ilhan Omar Now Says She ‘Supports BDS Movement’



> Minnesota Democrat Ilhan Omar came out against the anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement during her campaign, but after winning election, she now says she "supports the BDS movement."
> 
> Omar, a Muslim Somali-American elected last week to replace outgoing Rep. Keith Ellison (D., Minn.) in the House, fought accusations that she held anti-Israel views during her campaign. As part of that effort, she told a group of Jewish voters in the state that she opposed the economic boycott of Israel, calling it "counteractive" and "not helpful in getting that two-state solution."
> 
> But Omar's tune has changed since winning the election. In an interview published Sunday by MuslimGirl, Omar said she "supports the BDS movement."
> 
> "Ilhan believes in and supports the BDS movement, and has fought to make sure people’s right to support it isn’t criminalized," her campaign told MuslimGirl, which said Omar had been criticized for coming out against BDS. Omar's campaign also pointed MuslimGirl to her vote against an anti-BDS bill in Minnesota's state legislature and her argument that boycott movements were successful in South Africa.
> 
> *The comment is seen as a complete reversal by members of the Jewish community in her district.*


M'bold.

Anybody who believed her BS...well, let's just say you get who you deserve. 

Isn't it amazing how many of these freshly elected Progs champion things entirely different from what they campaigned on?


----------



## FeXL

Deadline for Florida's Recount Passed at 3pm; Bill Nelson Filed Suit to Ignore the Law and Allow Democrats More Time to Manufacture Votes;
_Federal Judge Refuses His Request_



> But we're not out of the woods yet. Democrats are still counting on finding a judge to claim that illegal votes are legal.
> 
> _A federal judge is refusing to suspend looming election recount deadlines in the battleground state of Florida.
> 
> U.S. District Judge Mark Walker on Thursday rejected a request by U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson and Democrats to give counties more time to finish recounts. All 67 counties are required to submit the results of a machine recount by 3 p.m.
> 
> Palm Beach County's election supervisor has already warned that the county will not be able to finish on time._​
> The Democrat plan here -- illegally changing the deadlines for voting (well, "curing" defective votes), etc., and then getting a liberal judge to invalidate the law -- is so obvious that _even CNN_ understands the game:


"No Evidence of Electoral Fraud:" Florida Democrat Party Plotted to Send Out Forged Ballots Permitting People to Vote After the Election



> Nothing to see here, folks.
> 
> Note that the media rages about non-existent fraud in Georgia while ignoring the actual fraud in Florida -- and while claiming only a conspiracy theorist would talk about voter fraud.
> 
> They literally say that in between screaming about Georgia fraud.


I've noted before: if it wasn't for double standards, they'd have no standards at all....

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk non-existant migrant caravans some.

The Horde of Migrants The Media Swears Does Not Exists Reaches Tijuana, Attempts to Scale Border Fence



> Yeah we don't need a border wall.
> 
> More than a dozen people were arrested trying to illegally cross the border by the KKK, I mean, by the Border Patrol.
> 
> _More than a dozen members of the migrant caravan were arrested Wednesday night along U.S.-Tijuana border, a border patrol source in the San Diego sector told Fox News.
> 
> A small group was arrested near the beach in an area called Playas de Tijuana. A large group was arrested in the mountains east of Otay Mesa, a San Diego community that straddles the Mexican border, the source said. All were arrested for trying to cross the border illegally, the source said.
> 
> Separately, a fight broke out Wednesday night in Tijuana between local Mexicans and Hondurans arriving in the caravan. The migrants complained that the locals were yelling: "Go home. We don't want you here!" Members of the caravan complained to reporters that local police made no attempt to break up the fight._​


Related:

Filmmaker Embedded in "Migrant" Caravan: This Caravan Costs Millions of Dollars. Who's Paying for It? Why Isn't Any Media Asking Who's Paying For It?



> He says the main group funding for this, _Peublo Sin Fronteras_, is being funded by groups which have been funded by [CENSORED] in the past.
> 
> Because you're not allowed to say George Soros funds the left, according to the left and the left-adjacent "conservatives" which have suddenly grown so very protective of him now that, coincidentally, their previous streams of grifty funding have diminished.
> 
> Completely unrelated, but over at the Weekly Standard, proud partner of famously-conservative organization FaceBook, they've once again fact-checked a right-leaning micro-rando to, get this, defend George Soros' good name.
> 
> In this case, they don't even try to establish this "conspiracy theory" is widespread. They do not demonstrate it has any reach. They can't say it's widespread; the most they can say is that it "has _begun_ to resurface."
> 
> It has _begun_ to resurface? Well then -- let's call in the Sixth Fleet! This aggression will not stand.
> 
> In fact, they cheekily even reference the fact that they spend _a lot_ of time defending George Soros' good name these days.
> 
> In further fact, they even reference the fact that I've referenced that fact.


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

_Kamala Harris: ICE is a Hate Organization Like the KKK_



> Strange how the media's frenzied worrying about unhinged rhetoric and lunatic conspiracy theories melts away when such claims come from the mouth of a Democrat.
> 
> After asking the nominee to head ICE, Ronald Vitello, about the KKK and what its motivations were, Harris began demanding to know if he saw connections between the KKK, a terrorist organization, and ICE, a federal law-enforcement agency.


Can't be KKK. They're not all Democrats...


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Border Agents Catch Previously Convicted Sex Offender Entering U.S. Illegally



> Border Patrol agents captured an illegal alien in Arizona who had previously been convicted of sex offenses and deported, reported the U.S. Cutoms and Border Protection (CBP) office.
> 
> Walter Chun-Chilel, a 32-year-old Guatemalan nation was arrested on Saturday, Nov. 10, in San Miguel, Arizona.
> 
> Upon his arrest, the Border Patrol agents "conducted a records check on Chun and learned he was convicted in King County, Washington, on two counts of indecent liberties in 2008," said the CBP in a press release.
> 
> Because of those crimes, Chun was sentenced to 82 months in prison, after which he was deported.
> 
> Chun now faces felony immigration charges.


Ah, what the hell. Re-release him & let him come back, just to see if they can catch him again...


----------



## FeXL

Another shocka...

Former Florida Democratic Party Chair Sued For Allegedly Sexually Harassing Female Employee



> Stephen Bittel, a real-estate billionaire and former head of the Florida Democratic Party, is being sued for allegedly sexually harassing a female employee.
> 
> The complaint filed in Miami-Dade Circuit Court alleges that Bittel sexually harassed 34-year-old Andrea Molina by "describing his pornography preferences, offering to take her shopping for lingerie, and touching her toes on his private jet," the Miami New Times reports.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump blames Canadian forest industry for California fires 










 https://globalnews.ca/video/439530...umber-industry-for-fires-raging-in-california


----------



## Macfury

August 17? Freddie, you really have a screw loose.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> August 17? Freddie, you really have a screw loose.




Macfury, you really nitpick trivial details when you have nothing of actual substance to contribute. Trump is an idiot, regardless of when he said it.


----------



## Macfury

What's four months in a busy news cycle, eh Freddie? Let's just pretend it happened this week to make you feel better about your post.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What's four months in a busy news cycle, eh Freddie? Let's just pretend it happened this week to make you feel better about your post.



As far as I can see, there’s no date listed on the article or the clip. Where did you find one? Either way, the man is an idiot and this theory, along with his recent comments about raking California’s forest floor, proves it. It is you who are out of touch with reality if you support him. 

P.S. mid August to mid November is three months not four months. Better work on those math skills.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> As far as I can see, there’s no date listed on the article or the clip. Where did you find one? Either way, the man is an idiot and this theory, along with his recent comments about raking California’s forest floor, proves it. It is you who are out of touch with reality if you support him.
> 
> P.S. mid August to mid November is three months not four months. Better work on those math skills.


Yeah, it' really hard to see Frank.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Hey, when you lose Finland... you're just about where you were before you lost it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

“ You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forest, very important. You look at other countries where they do it differently and it’s a whole different story, Trump said according to Newsweek.”

Trump is such an idiot. Finnish President Niinistö recalls saying nothing with regards to raking the forest floor, but Trump believes it anyway.

 https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005903733.html


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> “ You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forest, very important. You look at other countries where they do it differently and it’s a whole different story, Trump said according to Newsweek.”
> 
> Trump is such an idiot. Finnish President Niinistö recalls saying nothing with regards to raking the forest floor, but Trump believes it anyway.
> 
> https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005903733.html


Or worse, Freddie believes all this BS. Yeah, that's it!


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Or worse, Freddie believes all this BS. Yeah, that's it!


I'm afraid he just needs to read it and it becomes magically true.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Or worse, Freddie believes all this BS. Yeah, that's it!




Are you calling your hero, Donald Trump, a liar?


----------



## Macfury

SINC doesn't have Trump Derangement Syndrome as you do Freddie. But he's always been iffy on Trump.


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant



> "So, Jimmy Acosta got a judge to give him his WH press pass back, at least temporarily. Does anyone else remember the old days when President Obama banned Fox News *entirely* from his press conferences, and nobody said boo? Good times."


Yeppers.

First & third memes there nail it.


----------



## FeXL

Just like Barry's 57 states...

Ocasio-Cortez: We Need To Work Our Butts Off To Take Back ‘Three Chambers Of Congress’ 



> She quickly corrects to “three chambers of government” and of course, that’s wrong as well because it’s branches of government, not chambers. And the branches of government are not the “president, Senate and House,” they are the exeecutive the legislative and the judicial.


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> The Morning Rant
> 
> 
> 
> Yeppers.
> 
> First & third memes there nail it.


And the reason no one said boo was because it didn’t happen.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> And the reason no one said boo was because it didn’t happen.


White House Bars Certain News Outlets from Daily Briefing After Trump Attack



> In 2009, top Obama Administration officials declared that Fox News was not a news organization because of opinions often aired by the network that were sharply critical of Obama’s policies. At one point that same year, the Treasury Department declined to invite Fox News, but not other networks, to a briefing, prompting complaints from other news organizations. The Obama White House later said the omission of Fox had been made for logistical reasons, and included a Fox reporter in a briefing with the same Treasury official. “*This White House has demonstrated our willingness to exclude Fox News from newsmaking interviews*, but yesterday we did not,” said White House spokesman Josh Earnest at the time.


Bold mine.

White House’s Fox News Boycott Attempt Prompts Network Revolt



> The White House attempted to block Fox News from a round of interviews with “pay czar” Kenneth Feinberg Thursday, but the Washington bureau chiefs of the five TV networks included in the White House pool refused to interview Feinberg unless Fox News was included.
> 
> Fox News says that the White House “failed in its attempt to manipulate other news networks into isolating and excluding Fox News.”
> 
> The attempt to shut Fox News out was the latest move in the administration’s ongoing battle against the cable news channel, which several senior administration officials have claimed is not a legitimate news organization.


President Obama's Feud with FOX News



> And the White House has gone beyond words, reports CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield. Last Sept. 20, the president went on every Sunday news show - except Chris Wallace's show on FOX.


And not just Fox.

Flashback: When Candidate Obama Booted 3 Papers From His Campaign Plane, Nobody Cared



> The year was 2008. The candidate had a big lead in the polls going into election day. And in a preview of how petulant he would be act as Commander-in-Chief as it pertains to his treatment of the press, Barack Obama decided he didn’t like what three newspapers were writing about him, so he kicked its reporters off his campaign plane.
> Sound familiar?
> 
> But instead of simply owning up to not agreeing with the way the _Dallas Morning News_, _New York Post_ and _Washington Times_ were doing their respective jobs, the president’s team played dumb in insulting everyone’s intelligence in claiming it was simply a matter of suddenly having a limited number of seats on said plane.


More:



> Uh-huh. And you’ll never guess which publications somehow still made the seat cut:
> 
> _Glamour_, _Jet_ and _Ebony_.


Close as damn is to swearing.


----------



## FeXL

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means...

Brenda Snipes Resigns: ‘I Have Served the Purpose I Came Here For’



> Brenda Snipes submitted her resignation as the elections supervisor of Broward County, Florida. Her decision came one day after Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum offered his second concession to Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) in the Sunshine State’s gubernatorial election.


Related:

Democrats Go 0-5 in Plan to Flip Six State Senate Seats, With One in Recount



> Last summer, Democrats identified six Republican-held seats on the Nov. 6 ballot as being "vulnerable" to challenges by their party’s candidates.
> 
> As of Friday, the Democrats went 0-5 in those six elections with one race – a tentative "win" – still undecided and likely headed for a recount.
> 
> As a result, incoming Senate President Bill Galvano, R-Bradenton, will lead a chamber with either a 23-17 or 24-16 GOP majority – little change from the 23-16 advantage Republicans enjoyed in 2018, but two to three votes short of the two-thirds supermajority needed to overcome a gubernatorial veto.


Related, too:


----------



## FeXL

White women gonna white



> Last Tuesday’s deeply anticipated/dreaded “Blue Wave” that threatened to engulf the midterm elections turned into an underwhelming Blue Trickle, and white women are getting blamed for it. If you recall, they also got blamed for electing Donald Trump when exit polls suggested that 53% of the Caucasian Sisterhood voted for him.
> 
> “White women gonna white,” lamented Elie Mystal, a doughy, smirking black man who makes a living complaining about living in a country that affords him the sort of wealth and comfort that would be unimaginable in his backward, disease-ridden Motherland.
> 
> (In case you need an interpreter, “[Blank] gonna [blank]” is one of those ghetto linguistic inanities along the lines of “it is what it is.” By saying that “White women gonna white,” Mystal is saying that white women are going to do stupidly racist and unforgivably selfish things because that’s what white women do. It’s almost as if they can’t help themselves, but maybe if we bark at them and yell at them and relentlessly shame them they’ll realize that we, not they, know what’s best for them, and there’s nothing bigoted or condescending about that at all, so why the hell aren’t they listening to us?)


----------



## FeXL

Shocka, alright...

Shocker: Guy Who Shouted "Heil Hitler, Heil Trump" At a Fiddler on the Roof Performance Is Actually... An Anti-Trump Progressive Activist



> Yes, everyone pretty much thought this, though many of us did not say so because we'd be yelled at by the Very Smart People Who Are Wrong About Almost Everything.
> 
> I mean, this seemed like a FALSE FLAG from the get-go, but the Very Smart People Who Are Wrong About Almost Everything yell when people say almost-certainly correct things like "This sounds much more like a MAGA parody as imagined by a febrile progressive than an actual MAGA supporter," and want Republicans to assume that they are Garbage People like their progressive Twitter Palz say and pre-emptively denounce themselves.
> 
> Even though this was all pretty obvious.
> 
> But we couldn't say so. Because, all of the yelling.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump recalling troops from the border because they're incredibly bored waiting for the 'caravan' to arrive:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/tr...thern-border-reports-emerged-extremely-bored/

But no, it was a real invasion, not just an election stunt!!


----------



## Macfury

Who was quoted as saying they were "bored"? And what is your problem with how long the troops are in place?


----------



## Macfury

Looks like California agrees with Trump: Governor Moonbeam is proposing to change the laws governing land clearing and forestry to prevent forest fires.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08...roposes-easing-logging-rules-to-thin-forests/


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Surprise: Democrats, Media (But I Repeat Myself) Completely Reverse Themselves On Whether the Loser of a Race Should Concede for the Sake of Preserving Confidence in Democracy



> Now Democrats make evidence-free, dishonest claims of electoral frauds, their intense partisan allies in the media cover for them and spread their lies.


More:



> This huge Twitchy post shows the media's contemptible double-standard on Republican allegations of election improprieties and their open embrace of Democrat vote-fraud conspiracy theories.


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No way. Not a chance in hell there's voter fraud in the US. Nosiree...

Top Dem Donors Hosted Director From Group That Registered Dead People to Vote



> The left's largest network of wealthy donors tapped an individual for a discussion on "expanding the electorate" at its fall investment conference from a group that was caught submitting fraudulent voter registration forms—including registering dead people to vote—and saw one of its employees go to prison for the crime.
> 
> The Democracy Alliance, a dark money donor club that consists of more than 100 millionaires and billionaires who each vow to pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into the coffers of progressive groups every year, held its fall investment conference last Thursday and Friday at the Capital Hilton hotel in Washington, D.C., where donors and progressive activists huddled to begin plotting their upcoming strategy for the 2020 elections.
> 
> *Among the events was a strategy briefing on "expanding the electorate," according to documents obtained on site by the Washington Free Beacon*.


Bold mine.

More:



> The Ohio Organizing Collaborative raised red flags in 2015 after the vice-chairman of a local board of elections in Ohio began noticing frequent problems with registrations submitted by the group, the _Washington Free Beacon_ previously reported.
> 
> *"They have turned in roughly 530 voter registrations, of which five of them were dead people," the vice-chairman said at the time. "They actually had the dead people's drivers license numbers and Social Security numbers, and of course they forged the signatures of these dead people."*
> 
> "The forms were riddled with errors and all tied to this group," an election chairman told a local publication. "You can tell the same person filled out some of the same forms and forged signatures. There are wrong dates of births and wrong addresses on others. It became a pattern."


Bold mine.

Federal Prosecutors Investigating "Altered" Election Documents Forged by Florida Democrats



> "No evidence of voter fraud," the media lied.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now, I want you all to prepare for a shock.
> 
> Are you ready?
> 
> Good. Then let's begin.
> 
> _ *Among the counties in question is Broward*..._​
> Whoa. I feel all disoriented and seizurey like Hillary Clinton powering through a lingering case of Standing For 20 Minutes.


----------



## FeXL

How soon before Nancy comes a courtin' to the Republicans?

Pelosi unfazed as unhappy Dems claim votes to block her rise



> As a steadfast Rep. Nancy Pelosi all but dared potential rivals for the gavel to come forward, a group of restive House Democrats vowed Wednesday to produce enough votes to block her from becoming the House's new speaker.
> 
> For two days now, disgruntled Democrats have claimed they have 17 names on a letter opposing Pelosi's leadership, promising to air the document soon. They say those signing on are pledging to vote against the Californian when the full chamber elects the next speaker on Jan. 3.
> 
> Rep. Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., confirmed the letter Tuesday, and an aide to an organizer of the effort said it stood at 17 names as of Wednesday. The aide was not authorized to discuss the letter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.


----------



## FeXL

If he was in Canada he'd already be out cashing his cheque...

Illinois Jihadi Says He’s Guilty, but Innocent



> Adel Daoud tried to set off a bomb outside a crowded Chicago bar in 2012, and now, according to the Chicago Tribune, he has “asked a federal judge to allow him to enter an unusual guilty plea.” He wants to enter “what’s known as an Alford plea in which he’d acknowledge prosecutors had evidence to convict him but not admit wrongdoing.” How could there be evidence enough to convict him if he didn’t do anything wrong? Law enforcement officials, you see, made him turn to jihad.


Of curse they did!

More:



> Nonetheless, Coleman “has often struck a sympathetic tone with Daoud, who was a teenager when he was first charged in 2012, and sided with his attorneys in finding him mentally unfit for trial two years ago.”


:-( <sniff...>


----------



## FeXL

Postal Service Will Never Get Better — It's Time To Privatize It 



> What do you call a business that increases its revenue by more than $1 billion during a boom year but ends up nearly doubling its losses? The U.S. Postal Service. Is it finally time to privatize the post office?


Interesting read.

CanPost, take note.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> How soon before Nancy comes a courtin' to the Republicans?
> 
> Pelosi unfazed as unhappy Dems claim votes to block her rise


Trump has already promised Nancy Pelosi all the votes she needs to continue her doddering reign. Brilliant strategy on his part.


----------



## FeXL

Forbes Mag: Illegal Immigrants Cost Taxpayers $18.5 Billion/Yr. In Health Care Costs



> Illegal immigrants cost the U.S. billions a year in health care costs that the illegals never pay for, a Forbes Mag. report says. And that is even though federal law supposedly prohibits this spending.
> 
> Federal law claims that no federal dollars can go to pay for health care for illegals. Unfortunately, this is a smoke screen because literally BILLIONS of our tax dollars go to fund medical care for illegals anyway.
> 
> Forbes magazine’s Chris Conover recent ran the numbers and came up with at least $18.5 billion of our tax dollars wasted on health care for illegal immigrants.


Related:

Islamic ‘Vaccine Fatwa’ Triggers Plunging Vaccination Rates in Indonesia



> Millions of children in Indonesia are missing out on crucial vaccines because of a “vaccine fatwa” imposed by powerful Islamic clerics, Science Magazine reported on Thursday.
> 
> In August, Indonesia’s leading Islamic body issued a religious decree, otherwise known as a fatwa, declaring the Rubella-Measles vaccine as haram because pig cells are used in its manufacturing.
> 
> Vaccination rates have plummeted significantly since the ruling was imposed in August, causing alarm among public health officials concerned that the world’s largest Muslim-majority country could see a rise of measles and miscarriages and health defects caused from rubella infections during pregnancy.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Postal Service Will Never Get Better — It's Time To Privatize It
> 
> Interesting read.
> 
> CanPost, take note.


Typical ideological reasoning going against reality. What is it with right-wingers and their hatred of public ownership of assets? 

Just like the profitable Nova Scotia Power Corp., which was privatized by the Progressive Conservatives in '82 to help service debt that the previous PC and Liberal governments had created (throwing away a profitable crown corporation, surrendering control over an essential utility and placing profit over reliability and local needs).

Now FeXL wants Canada Post to be given away to the magical market, put into the hands of shareholders whose only motive is profit, damn the torpedoes. Of course, it makes money for the government, so it must be evil, right?

P*rofits and Losses*

For 16 years up until 2011, Canada Post realized an annual profit, and it has since had several profitable years.[56] In 2011, Canada Post posted a pretax loss of $253 million, due in part to a 25-day employee lockout, and a $150 million pay equity class action lawsuit.[56] In 2012, Canada Post rebounded to post a profit of $98 million before tax.[57] In 2013, Canada Post lost $37 million overall.[58] The Canada Post group's gross profit in 2014 was $269 million.[59] In 2015, the corporation continued to remain profitable, posting a $136 million profit before tax.[60] In 2016, Canada Post recorded its 3rd consecutive profitable year, making $114 million before tax ($81 million after taxes). In total, Canada Post has made a net profit of $266 million since 2012.[4] In 2017, the Corporation posted $144 million after tax profit.[61]
(Wikipedia)​


----------



## Macfury

First off, FeXL was talking about the USPS. Second, Canada Post makes those "profits" by jacking up the price of stamps as a monopoly for the few areas it dominates by law. But you want the magical government to continue to gouge its remaining customers? 



CubaMark said:


> Typical ideological reasoning going against reality. What is it with right-wingers and their hatred of public ownership of assets?
> 
> Just like the profitable Nova Scotia Power Corp., which was privatized by the Progressive Conservatives in '82 to help service debt that the previous PC and Liberal governments had created (throwing away a profitable crown corporation, surrendering control over an essential utility and placing profit over reliability and local needs).
> 
> Now FeXL wants Canada Post to be given away to the magical market, put into the hands of shareholders whose only motive is profit, damn the torpedoes. Of course, it makes money for the government, so it must be evil, right?
> 
> P*rofits and Losses*
> 
> For 16 years up until 2011, Canada Post realized an annual profit, and it has since had several profitable years.[56] In 2011, Canada Post posted a pretax loss of $253 million, due in part to a 25-day employee lockout, and a $150 million pay equity class action lawsuit.[56] In 2012, Canada Post rebounded to post a profit of $98 million before tax.[57] In 2013, Canada Post lost $37 million overall.[58] The Canada Post group's gross profit in 2014 was $269 million.[59] In 2015, the corporation continued to remain profitable, posting a $136 million profit before tax.[60] In 2016, Canada Post recorded its 3rd consecutive profitable year, making $114 million before tax ($81 million after taxes). In total, Canada Post has made a net profit of $266 million since 2012.[4] In 2017, the Corporation posted $144 million after tax profit.[61]
> (Wikipedia)​


----------



## FeXL

Where should we start...

1. You, calling _me_ out on ideology? :lmao::lmao::lmao:

2. The reality is, publicly owned businesses rarely succeed without significant taxpayer support at some point throughout their history and/or with gov't intervention. In CanPost's case getting a recent 4 year reprieve from paying into their pension plan a la Harper is one instance of gov't largesse. 

3. I don't hate anybody or anything, even the deserving numbskull you find in the mirror. I just don't have the energy...

4. Seeing as the OP was talking about the USPS, have a gander at their unfunded pension liability.

5. Wiki? Pulease...

6. Labour strikes, like the one we're currently experiencing w/ CanPost. I don't even know what the issues are and frankly, I don't care. As MF noted some time ago, going to a 3 day delivery schedule does nothing more than throw into sharp relief the fact that we don't really need mail delivered daily. They're shooting themselves in the foot and aren't smart enough to figger it out. 

7. Again, as MF has noted, nobody is allowed to deliver a letter unless it's 3 times CanPost's cost. What is it that scares CanPost about the private sector? Faster service? Better rates? No more strikes? From my perspective, that's win/win/win.

8. There are literally millions of private sector business' on this planet whose bottom line is profit and yet the lion's share still manage to offer good service at a fair price. WTF are you going on about?

9. Don't be an idiot. I don't want CanPost to be _given_ to anybody. Putting them up for bids from the private sector? Absolutely. Now, MotherCorpse on the other hand... beejacon

10. As far as your observation about making money so it must be evil, that's a Prog argument. CanPost is evil because they're _gov't_...



CubaMark said:


> Typical ideological reasoning going against reality. What is it with right-wingers and their hatred of public ownership of assets?
> 
> ...
> 
> Now FeXL wants Canada Post to be given away to the magical market, put into the hands of shareholders whose only motive is profit, damn the torpedoes. Of course, it makes money for the government, so it must be evil, right?


----------



## FeXL

Further on stand-up Prog lawyers.

Actress Roughed Up by Michael "Fighty" Avenatti Revealed; Granted Restraining Order Against Punchy McSlappabitch by Judge



> _ BREAKING NEWS: Actress Files for Domestic Violence Restraining Order Against Michael Avenatti. According to court records, actress Mareli Miniutti filed for a domestic violence restraining order against Avenatti Monday in Los Angeles. pic.twitter.com/EsajjpVLol
> — Michael Moates (@freedom_moates) November 20, 2018_​


More:



> Some friends were noting the creepiness of the media's complete embargo of Michael Avenatti. This guy used to be on CNN and MSNBC multiple times per day, but his name isn't even mentioned on those networks any longer.
> 
> Our brave firefighters have completely erased him, Soviet-style.


Curious how the Prog milk somebody for every drop of benefit they can squeeze out, then drop 'em like a hot potato...


----------



## FeXL

No argument. 

Actress Emily Ratajkowski: Wearing a ‘String Bikini’ to Protest Is ‘Important in 2018’



> Page Six reports that Emily Ratajkowski, upon winning the GQ International Woman of the Year award Wednesday, said, “I think Woman of the Year is a pretty crazy title. But what I think about what’s important in 2018 for both men and women, it’s about defying stereotypes. It’s about being multi-faceted.”
> 
> *“It’s about wearing a string bikini on the beach, and at a protest.”*


M'bold.

Or less, a la Femen... :clap:

I've noted this before: Back in the early 80's I was driving freight truck in southern Alberta. Pick up freight in Lethbridge in the morning then deliver it along the route to the southern border in the afternoon. There was a phone-making business in Leth called AEL Microtel that went on strike in mid-summer & they were picketing along one of the busiest avenues in the industrial area of the city. Got pretty damn hot carrying their placards around in the blazing sun so they soon switched to bikinis, beach chairs & umbrellas, with the placards leaned up against the chairs. Of course, all the drivers were honking their support. No, really...


----------



## FeXL

Son-of-a-Mailman Bitch: John Kat**** Will Veto Pro-Life "Heartbeat" Bill and Pro-2nd-Amendment "Stand Your Ground" Bill



> Boy, these True Conservatives get truer and truer by the moment. You'd almost think they were moderately liberal RINOs who merely posture as conservative for branding purposes.
> 
> Kind of like all of the NeverTrumpers.
> 
> So here's Bill Kristol's super-secret stealth candidate. A super-conservative in the mold of Reagan.


----------



## FeXL

Women's March Founder Calls On Current Leaders to Step Down for Promoting Antisemitism 



> Duh-_uhh_! Antisemitism is only a bad thing when White People do it. Everyone else has a moral duty to be antisemitic, is apparently the New Rule.
> 
> In fact, it's pretty much the New Rule that all nonwhite people are not only permitted to be racist but actively encouraged to be so.
> 
> 
> _ Teresa Shook, a retired lawyer based in Hawaii, called out Women's March Inc. board members Mari Lynn "Bob" Bland, Tamika Mallory, Linda Sarsour and Carmen Perez in a Facebook post Monday morning.
> 
> "In opposition to our Unity Principles, they have allowed anti-Semitism, anti-LBGTQIA sentiment and hateful, racist rhetoric to become a part of the platform by their refusal to separate themselves from groups that espouse these racist, hateful beliefs," Shook wrote of the co-chairs of the Women's March._​


Hey, now! Just because Linda Sarsour supports BDS doesn't mean she's anti-semitic... XX)

And, _AND_, when God is changing the paths of Hamas rockets in mid-air, what difference does it make?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## CubaMark

*A truly disgusting performance at the White House:*

_(emphasis added)_

*Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia*
November 20, 2018

America First!

The world is a very dangerous place!

The country of Iran, as an example, is responsible for a bloody proxy war against Saudi Arabia in Yemen, trying to destabilize Iraq’s fragile attempt at democracy, supporting the terror group Hezbollah in Lebanon, propping up dictator Bashar Assad in Syria (who has killed millions of his own citizens), and much more. Likewise, the Iranians have killed many Americans and other innocent people throughout the Middle East. Iran states openly, and with great force, “Death to America!” and “Death to Israel!” Iran is considered “the world’s leading sponsor of terror.”

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia would gladly withdraw from Yemen if the Iranians would agree to leave. They would immediately provide desperately needed humanitarian assistance. Additionally, Saudi Arabia has agreed to spend billions of dollars in leading the fight against Radical Islamic Terrorism.

After my heavily negotiated trip to Saudi Arabia last year, the Kingdom agreed to spend and invest $450 billion in the United States. This is a record amount of money. It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, tremendous economic development, and much additional wealth for the United States. Of the $450 billion, $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors. If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries – and very happy to acquire all of this newfound business. It would be a wonderful gift to them directly from the United States!

The crime against Jamal Khashoggi was a terrible one, and one that our country does not condone. Indeed, we have taken strong action against those already known to have participated in the murder. After great independent research, we now know many details of this horrible crime. We have already sanctioned 17 Saudis known to have been involved in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi, and the disposal of his body.

*Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that – this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!

That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran. The United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region. It is our paramount goal to fully eliminate the threat of terrorism throughout the world!*

I understand there are members of Congress who, for political or other reasons, would like to go in a different direction – and they are free to do so. I will consider whatever ideas are presented to me, but only if they are consistent with the absolute security and safety of America. After the United States, Saudi Arabia is the largest oil producing nation in the world. They have worked closely with us and have been very responsive to my requests to keeping oil prices at reasonable levels – so important for the world. As President of the United States I intend to ensure that, in a very dangerous world, America is pursuing its national interests and vigorously contesting countries that wish to do us harm. Very simply it is called America First!

*Office of the Press Secretary*​** * **​
*Washington Post PR*
@WashPostPR

*Statement from Washington Post Publisher and CEO Fred Ryan in response to President Trump's statement today regarding the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.*










(Twitter)

*Also worth reading*: Trump should stop talking like a Middle Eastern despot
“_Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an ‘enemy of the state’ and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that — this is an unacceptable and horrible crime,” Trump said in the statement.

I recognized this as a signature move of autocrats and their proxies, which is to sow doubt, whenever possible, about the character of their victims. Authoritarian regimes have a talent for imputing evil motives to their opponents — no matter how idealistic or innocent they may be in reality._​
* * *


----------



## FeXL

Why?



CubaMark said:


> A truly disgusting performance at the White House:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

That's one of the laziest memes I've ever seen. Where did you hear that Republicans have stopped caring about emails? That's demonstrably not true. As crappy as the meme is, it still needs a basis in fact.


----------



## FeXL

Emails? Emails? Let's talk emails!

House Dems To Investigate Ivanka Trump’s Personal Email Use



> House Democrats are calling for an investigation into Ivanka Trump’s use of her personal email after a report broke Monday night that she used it hundreds of times to conduct government business and schedule meetings in the beginning months of the administration.
> 
> House Oversight Committee chairman Elijah Cummings said the committee plans to investigate whether Trump and other members of the Trump administration are following federal laws, calling for a bipartisan investigation.


Related:

Levin: You need a ‘negative IQ’ to compare Ivanka’s email to Hillary’s



> On his radio show Tuesday evening, LevinTV host Mark Levin defended Ivanka Trump from the media smears attempting to connect her private email use to Hillary Clinton’s use and illegal scrubbing of an email server on which she discussed classified information.


Well, the Dems definitely qualify for -IQ's.

Speaking of Bill's Wife & while we're at it, I think we need a bipartisan review of her personal email server, too.


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of negative IQ Dems...

Georgia Democrats Seek Repeal of ‘Undemocratic’ Voter Purge Law Passed by Georgia Democrats



> Georgia House Democrats are proposing a repeal of what they're calling an "undemocratic" law passed by the state's Democrats in the 1990s allowing the secretary of state to purge inactive voters from the rolls.


You can't make this stuff up. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Related to the above:

If no one else is going to respond to this, I guess I will have to. This list is intentionally misleading to give readers who don't know the facts a false impression and thus undermine a legitimate election.


----------



## FeXL

So, recall the FGM case in Michigan?

Well, the charges have just been dropped.

Now, this p!$$e$ me off probably more than most, but I understand the decision. 

Judge dismisses female genital mutilation charges in historic case



> U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman concluded that "as despicable as this practice may be," Congress did not have the authority to pass the 22-year-old federal law that criminalizes female genital mutilation, and that FGM is for the states to regulate. FGM is banned worldwide and has been outlawed in more than 30 countries, though the U.S. statute had never been tested before this case.
> 
> "As laudable as the prohibition of a particular type of abuse of girls may be ... federalism concerns deprive Congress of the power to enact this statute," Friedman wrote in his 28-page opinion, noting: "Congress overstepped its bounds by legislating to prohibit FGM ... FGM is a 'local criminal activity' which, in keeping with long-standing tradition and our federal system of government, is for the states to regulate, not Congress."


So, it's state jurisdiction, not federal.

More:



> Currently, 27 states have laws that criminalize female genital mutilation, including Michigan, whose FGM law is stiffer than the federal statute, punishable by up to 15 years in prison, compared with five under federal law. *Michigan's FGM law was passed last year in the wake of the historic case and applies to both doctors who conduct the procedure, and parents who transport a child to have it done. The defendants in this case can't be retroactively charged under the new law.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Federal judge orders female genital mutilation charges dropped in Detroit



> A federal judge has dismissed six charges of female genital mutilation against a doctor, declaring the nation's female genital mutilation law as unconstitutional.
> 
> The federal judge in Detroit ruled in the historic case on Tuesday, ruling the law that prevents female genital mutilation (FGM) is unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman ruled that congress does not have the authority to make FGM illegal, which it had been classified as illegal under the Necessary and Proper Clause or the Commerce Clause.


Related, too:

Conservatives Slam Judge for Blocking Genital Mutilation Charges



> A federal judge is facing a public outcry after he threw out federal charges against several Muslims who are suspected of cutting girls’ genitals to minimize future sexual desires.


Now it remains to be seen what charges can be placed.


----------



## FeXL

Well, some Prog judge gave the Accoster a 14 day Get Out Of Jail card. And, while Trump will accept said decision until then, after the 14 days Accoster is likely out again.

Good.

CNN claims White House has ALREADY told Jim Acosta he'll lose his press pass again as soon as judge's 14-day restraining order expires



> CNN said Sunday that the White House has told reporter Jim Acosta he'll likely find himself shut out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue again when a federal judge's two-week order restoring his press credentials expires.
> 
> In a letter on Friday, White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Communications Bill Shine and Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said they would issue a 'final' decision by Monday at 3:00 p.m., and invited him to explain by Sunday afternoon why President Donald Trump should change his mind.
> 
> The letter does not explicitly say, as CNN media reporter Brian Stelter wrote Sunday in his daily newsletter, that the White House would place Acosta back on suspension in two weeks' time. It closes by notifying him: 'You will continue to maintain your hard pass while the Temporary Restraining Order issued on November 16, 2018, remains in effect.'


In the mean time, some rules for reporters have been established:

White House Announces New Rules For Press Conferences After Acosta's Antics



> 1. A journalist called upon to ask a question will ask a single question and then will yield the floor to other journalists;
> 
> 2. At the discretion of the President or other White House official taking questions, a follow-up question or questions may be permitted; and where a follow up has been allowed and asked, the questioner will then yield the floor;
> 
> 3. “Yielding the floor” includes, when applicable, physically surrendering the microphone to White House staff for use by the next questioner;
> 
> 4. Failure to abide by any of rules (1)-(3) may result in suspension or revocation of the journalist’s hard pass.


Frankly, I like these solutions:

Speaking of GOOD ideas...............from Rico


----------



## FeXL

Further on the clit clippers.

#MeToo Could Not Be Reached For Comment


----------



## FeXL

DHS: Migrant Caravan Harboring 500 Criminals; Mostly Young Men, With Women and Children Pushed to Forefront to Garner Media Sympathy



> There is no caravan. Believe us, we're the media -- we never lie.
> 
> _More than 500 criminals are traveling with the migrant caravan that's massed on the other side of a San Diego border crossing, homeland security officials said Monday afternoon._​


----------



## FeXL

LOL



> The media that demands every scrap of paper from Trump also resists turning over relevant documents in a lawsuit.
> 
> Wonder why.
> 
> _ Just stumbled on this -- Russian tech executive suing BuzzFeed over dossier wants to enter emails between Ben Smith and Jake Tapper into evidence. BuzzFeed wants to withhold, claiming emails are hearsay and unfairly prejudicial. (filing submitted on Oct. 16) pic.twitter.com/Bfi505nVIZ
> — Chuck Ross (@ChuckRossDC) November 20, 2018_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's one of the laziest memes I've ever seen. Where did you hear that Republicans have stopped caring about emails? That's demonstrably not true. As crappy as the meme is, it still needs a basis in fact.




They certainly don’t care about Ivanka’s e-mails.


----------



## Macfury

They care about all of the classified e-mails Ivanka kept on a private server.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> They care about all of the classified e-mails Ivanka kept on a private server.


D'oh!!!

BTW Freddie, an _insecure_ private server. Jes' sayin'...


----------



## FeXL

Chief Justice Roberts, Who Swindled Bush Into Nominating Him Before Becoming Obama's Chief Judge, Says There's No Such Thing as a Bush Judge or an Obama Judge



> Well, Chief Justice Obamacare would say that, wouldn't he?


Purdy much...



> Instapundit himself adds:
> 
> _ Two thoughts. First, in talking about “Obama judges,” Trump was merely echoing the common media trope that identifies judges in controversial cases based on who appointed them. And if judges are as neutral and apolitical as Roberts pretends, then why so much sturm und drang over judicial appointments?
> 
> ...
> 
> Second, Roberts is in a particularly poor place to talk about apolitical judging after his transparent capitulation to the Obama Administration's campaign of media bullying during the pendency of the ObamaCare case. He reversed his position in response to political pressure from an administration that was, at the time, a party to the case. He has no high horse to sit on._​


----------



## FeXL

You're Not Going to Believe This, But a Weekly Standard Cabin-Boy Is Advocating For the Democrats to Win _Another_ Senate Seat



> _Ahoy._
> 
> Who saw that coming?
> 
> No one. We're all just _stunned_ to find out that people working for Bill Kristol, who is himself funded by leftwing billionaire Pierre Omidyar, are in the tank for the Democrat Party.
> 
> There's a runoff election coming up in Mississippi, which the GOP was expected to win, but which has become uncomfortably close since the Republican candidate, Cindy Hyde-Smith, said something which did not seem racial but which of course everyone is claiming is _So Totally Racial_:
> 
> _ "If he invited me to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row"- Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith says in Tupelo, MS after Colin Hutchinson, cattle rancher, praises her.
> 
> Hyde-Smith is in a runoff on Nov 27th against Mike Espy. pic.twitter.com/0a9jOEjokr
> — Lamar White, Jr. (@LamarWhiteJr) November 11, 2018_​


:yikes:...:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Break Them Up



> Into a hundred thousand million pieces.
> 
> _ Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford —during a wide-ranging interview at the Halifax International Security Forum — took Google to task for its recent decision to withdraw from a Defense Department artificial intelligence initiative.
> 
> “I have a hard time with companies that are working very hard to engage in the market inside of China, and engaging in projects where intellectual property is shared with the Chinese, which is synonymous with sharing it with the Chinese military, and then don’t want to work for the U.S. military.”_​


Ya know something (and I'm just spitballin' here...), if Gaggle has already been working with the ChiComs, I'm not sure that the Defence Dept _should_ be working with them.

Jes' sayin'...


----------



## Macfury

Kristol lost me more than a decade ago, when he was exhibiting all of the signs of morphing into a statist prog.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> They certainly don’t care about Ivanka’s e-mails.


Wrong again, Freddo...

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/1...rumps-emails-beating-dems-to-the-punch-695659


----------



## CubaMark

TulsiGabbard, Hawaii U.S. Congresswoman


----------



## Macfury

Democrat Tulsi Gabbard--from the party that crapped on the idea of US energy independence. Just beautiful!


----------



## Macfury

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuba-kills-another-dissident-1488751707



> Cuba Kills Another Dissident
> 
> Score another kill for the Cuban military dictatorship: Last month it eliminated Afro-Cuban dissident Hamell Santiago Más Hernández, an inmate of one of its most notoriously brutal prisons.


Canada must be Cuba's bitch. Is that right CubaMark?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Canada must be Cuba's bitch. Is that right CubaMark?


O'Grady's connection to reality is about as tenuous as FeXL's... maybe try again.

As for Santiago's death: Yes, of course! A heart attack suffered while serving time in prison is _exactly_ like the Apple Watch data-streamed / Turkish intelligence audio-recorded intentional hacking-to-bits-while-being-torture-interrogated death of Kashoggi, who was ordered to be "shut up" by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia (according to the CIA / not according to the Cheetoh-in-Chief). 

Last I saw, Canada wasn't making its foreign policy decisions toward Cuba based upon the economic impact of its control of oil.

You're really off the mark on this one, MF.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This made me LOL! Thx, CM!

You, lecturing somebody, anybody, about reality.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Thx for the yucks.



CubaMark said:


> O'Grady]'s connection to reality is about as tenuous as FeXL's... maybe try again.


----------



## FeXL

Well, it's Thanksgiving in the US. Happy Thanksgiving!

Related:

Do We Need to Decolonize Thanksgiving?



> Via John Sexton, another chance to watch snowflakes melt under the glare of a simple question.
> 
> I like the one little genius who says that rather than having a feast, "we could maybe feed the natives or something?"
> 
> The natives.
> 
> I like her deployment of the Spoiled We. Not the Royal We, the Spoiled We. Because when she says _we_ could "feed the Natives," she means "_someone else, definitely not me_, could feed the Natives."


Related, too:

Trump Jokes During Turkey Pardons: ‘Dems Are Likely to Issue Them Both Subpoenas’

Related, three:


----------



## FeXL

If it wasn't for double standards...

Chuck Grassley to Chief Justice John Roberts: You Rebuked Trump — but Sat Silent Through Obama’s Abuse



> U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts offered rare public criticism of the President of the United States on Wednesday when he pushed back against President Trump’s claim Tuesday that an “Obama judge” had blocked his effort to deny asylum to those entering the country illegally.
> 
> But as outgoing Senate Judiciary Committee chair Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) later noted, Roberts was silent when President Barack Obama attacked the Court during the State of the Union address in 2010:
> 
> _ Chief Justice Roberts rebuked Trump for a comment he made abt judge’s decision on asylum I don’t recall the Chief attacking Obama when that Prez rebuked Alito during a State of the Union
> 
> — ChuckGrassley (@ChuckGrassley) November 21, 2018_​
> Likewise, Roberts said nothing when Obama bullied the Supreme Court on numerous occasions — and even appeared to yield to Obama’s pressure.


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

A New Senate Bill Would Hit Robocallers With Up to a $10,000 Fine for Every Call



> Democrats and Republicans can agree on at least one thing: The spam robocall situation has gotten entirely out of hand.
> 
> Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey, a Democrat, and Senator John Thune, a South Dakota Republican, introduced a bill on Friday that aims to ramp up the penalties on illegal robocalls—and stop them from reaching your phone in the first place.
> 
> The Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and Deterrence (TRACED) Act, raises the penalty for robocalls from $1,500 per call to up to $10,000 per call, and allows the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to take action on illegal robocalls up to three years after the calls are placed, instead of a year.


I'd love to see something like this north of 49. The number of 800 calls we've been screening this year is ridiculous.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> If it wasn't for double standards...
> 
> Chuck Grassley to Chief Justice John Roberts: You Rebuked Trump — but Sat Silent Through Obama’s Abuse


Roberts rewriting the legislation on Obamacare indicated the guy had been compromised long ago. Nice to see him called out.


----------



## Macfury

Pay no attention to the murders behind the (Cuban) curtain. We have to nail those Saudis!



CubaMark said:


> O'Grady's connection to reality is about as tenuous as FeXL's... maybe try again.
> 
> As for Santiago's death: Yes, of course! A heart attack suffered while serving time in prison is _exactly_ like the Apple Watch data-streamed / Turkish intelligence audio-recorded intentional hacking-to-bits-while-being-torture-interrogated death of Kashoggi, who was ordered to be "shut up" by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia (according to the CIA / not according to the Cheetoh-in-Chief).
> 
> Last I saw, Canada wasn't making its foreign policy decisions toward Cuba based upon the economic impact of its control of oil.
> 
> You're really off the mark on this one, MF.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Pay no attention to the murders behind the (Cuban) curtain.


Murders? No, no, no, you silly. Those were mercy killings. Good, ol' fashioned, progressive euthanasia. They wanted to die. No, they really did...

What I find hilarious is that he's quick to call out the Saudi's on this but thousands of other Muslim human rights violations go unmentioned. In addition, it's also perfectly acceptable to fill our eastern refineries with Saudi oil.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Murders? No, no, no, you silly. Those were mercy killings. Good, ol' fashioned, progressive euthanasia. They wanted to die. No, they really did...
> 
> What I find hilarious is that he's quick to call out the Saudi's on this but thousands of other Muslim human rights violations go unmentioned. In addition, it's also perfectly acceptable to fill our eastern refineries with Saudi oil.


Kashoggi is a special case because... he penned a few columns for US newspapers? Seriously, it all boils down to whether ol' CM thinks he can pin something on Trump. Now remember that CM also found Obama odious--but he managed to hold his nose for the better part of 8 years.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Kashoggi is a special case because...



I came across a interesting observation this morning about Kashoggi being Muslim Brotherhood. It was in JJ Sefton's Morning Report over at AoS:



> The Cliff Notes truth is despite the act being a ham-handed fiasco, Khashoggi was 99 44/100% Muslim Brotherhood member and 56/100% journalist.


CM's reaction was suddenly crystal clear.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the topic in the first place but a quick search produced this article from last month:

Media Forgets to Mention Jamal Khashoggi was in the Muslim Brotherhood



> Why is the media so in love with Jamal Khashoggi?
> 
> Guessing isn't hard. It's the easiest thing in the world. And there's only one kind of fellow that the Turkish government would be up in arms over. There's only one kind of Muslim the media loves. Only one kind.
> 
> _ The fate of Khashoggi has at least provoked global outrage, but it’s for all the wrong reasons. We are told he was a liberal, Saudi progressive voice fighting for freedom and democracy, and a martyr who paid the ultimate price for telling the truth to power._​
> Sorry, no.
> 
> _ In truth, Khashoggi never had much time for western-style pluralistic democracy. In the 1970s he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists to rid the Islamic world of western influence. He was a political Islamist until the end, recently praising the Muslim Brotherhood in the Washington Post. He championed the ‘moderate’ Islamist opposition in Syria, whose crimes against humanity are a matter of record. Khashoggi frequently sugarcoated his Islamist beliefs with constant references to freedom and democracy. But he never hid that he was in favour of a Muslim Brotherhood arc throughout the Middle East. His recurring plea to bin Salman in his columns was to embrace not western-style democracy, but the rise of political Islam which the Arab Spring had inadvertently given rise to. For Khashoggi, secularism was the enemy._​


More:



> The media is hysterically attacking a Saudi reformer (to some degree) in support of an Islamist.
> 
> Everything it's telling you is a lie.


Quelle surprise...

I've already excerpted more than I should. Further reading at the link.


----------



## FeXL

Sho 'nuf...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump is thankful for himself this thanksgiving. 

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1065734418483027968?s=21


----------



## Macfury

I'm thankful for him and his efforts--no problem with him taking a little credit as well.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is thankful for himself this thanksgiving.
> 
> https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1065734418483027968?s=21


----------



## Beej

A lengthy article on the JFK assassination conspiracy theory. Even the comments are fun to read.

My Misspent Years of Conspiracism
https://quillette.com/2018/11/22/my-misspent-years-of-conspiracism/

I find conspiracy theories about the conspiracy theories to be the most interesting.

A late edit after remembering this movie clip:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZPWsVNTqo[/ame]

TGIF.


----------



## FeXL

Geniuses, all... XX)

New Dem Tactic: We Were Thinking What Trump's Been Saying All Along



> This is how Trump will fade. Democrats will simply say they were thinking the same thing all along. "In an interview with the Guardian, [Hillary Clinton] the former Democratic presidential candidate... suggested immigration was inflaming voters and contributed to the election of Donald Trump and Britain’s vote to leave the EU."


They must have been reading some right wing blogs or sumthin', 'cause they sure as hell didn't cultivate that from the Clinton News Network.


----------



## FeXL

Mississippi Burning Beating



> Nothing says "I'm a moderate Democrat" like being backed by Creepy Porn Lawyer's PAC
> 
> _ A newly formed political action committee backed by anti-Trump lawyer Michael Avenatti, charged last week with domestic violence, is organizing for Senate Democratic candidate Mike Espy._​





> _Espy portrays himself as a moderate, but several liberals and liberal groups have donated to him, including *Sens. Cory Booker, D-N.J., Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., Kamala Harris, D-Calif., Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.*
> 
> *And among his top contributors are billionaire liberal activist George Soros and his son.*_​


M'bold.

Definitely moderate... XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Found this on another forum, one that doesn’t cater to right wing views like this one does. Sums up the POTUS quite well I think. 

“The stupid f**k is trying to stay out of prison, cause, you know you can't send a President to prison.



He never expected to get the job.

He never knew that it actually involved this work thing.

He wanted to just start the anti Hillary network and rake in the dough and be on teeevee.

Now that his criminal activity is under close scrutiny, someone has informed him that the only way he is gonna stay out of prison is to stay in office.”


----------



## Macfury

Because some boob on the Internet is a mind reader? Congratulations on that rare find, Freddie!


----------



## FeXL

First off, "cater to right wing views?"

WTF, Freddie?

If anything, these boards have always catered to the Progs. Go back to the early days & read some of the threads. Prog city. Recall, too, the heady days when we were "evenhandedly" supervised, like recalcitrant children. Progs were given free reign.

You know why there's so few Progs on these boards today, Freddie? 'Cause the fragile, whiny, precious, ideologic snowflakes got tired of having their asses handed to them in arguments on an even playing field.

Second, the idiot that you quoted has about as much common sense as you do, Freddie. And brings about as much substance to the table as CM.

1) What has Trump done prior to his presidency whereby he should be sent to prison? What criminal activity? Be specific.
2) What evidence does anybody have that Trump never expected to get the job? Why would you spend all the time & money to run a campaign & not expect to win? Be specific.
3) Trump has no issues with work. He runs a successful billion dollar empire. You don't do that by sleeping in in the morning.
4) He wanted to beat Hillary? So what? So did half the voting population of the US. That somehow makes him wicked?
5) Rake in the dough? How about a little perspective? He's worth $3.1 billion. Does anybody think that a lousy $400K/year means anything to him? It's chump change. He probably makes more than that every week in the private sector.
6) Wants to be on TV? He had his own television show, FFS!

Third, "you think"? Since when?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Found this on another forum, one that doesn’t cater to right wing views like this one does. Sums up the POTUS quite well I think.
> 
> “The stupid f**k is trying to stay out of prison, cause, you know you can't send a President to prison.
> 
> 
> 
> He never expected to get the job.
> 
> He never knew that it actually involved this work thing.
> 
> He wanted to just start the anti Hillary network and rake in the dough and be on teeevee.
> 
> Now that his criminal activity is under close scrutiny, someone has informed him that the only way he is gonna stay out of prison is to stay in office.”


Related:


----------



## Macfury

I think Freddie's use of a Spock avatar involves a severe case of "logic envy."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> First off, "cater to right wing views?"
> 
> 
> 
> WTF, Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, these boards have always catered to the Progs. Go back to the early days & read some of the threads. Prog city. Recall, too, the heady days when we were "evenhandedly" supervised, like recalcitrant children. Progs were given free reign.
> 
> 
> 
> You know why there's so few Progs on these boards today, Freddie? 'Cause the fragile, whiny, precious, ideologic snowflakes got tired of having their asses handed to them in arguments on an even playing field.
> 
> 
> 
> Second, the idiot that you quoted has about as much common sense as you do, Freddie. And brings about as much substance to the table as CM.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) What has Trump done prior to his presidency whereby he should be sent to prison? What criminal activity? Be specific.
> 
> 2) What evidence does anybody have that Trump never expected to get the job? Why would you spend all the time & money to run a campaign & not expect to win? Be specific.
> 
> 3) Trump has no issues with work. He runs a successful billion dollar empire. You don't do that by sleeping in in the morning.
> 
> 4) He wanted to beat Hillary? So what? So did half the voting population of the US. That somehow makes him wicked?
> 
> 5) Rake in the dough? How about a little perspective? He's worth $3.1 billion. Does anybody think that a lousy $400K/year means anything to him? It's chump change. He probably makes more than that every week in the private sector.
> 
> 6) Wants to be on TV? He had his own television show, FFS!
> 
> 
> 
> Third, "you think"? Since when?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:




Take a look at how you monopolize the boards now, FeXL.


----------



## FeXL

Let's look at the numbers, shall we? As of this one, 17,479 posts in a little less than 15 years. That's a little under 1200 posts/year. There are people on these boards who have a lot higher daily post count than that.

For instance, you. 4162 posts in 26 months under your new handle. That works out to nearly 2000 posts/year, you monopolizer, you.

Try the old math, Freddie. It works a lot better than this new Prog math. It's also one of the reasons Progs have made themselves so scarce on these boards. Another Prog narrative shot to hell...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Take a look at how you monopolize the boards now, FeXL.


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> I’d say George Papadopoulos is getting pretty fed up.


Yeppers...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Let's look at the numbers, shall we? As of this one, 17,479 posts in a little less than 15 years. That's a little under 1200 posts/year. There are people on these boards who have a lot higher daily post count than that.
> 
> 
> 
> For instance, you. 4162 posts in 26 months under your new handle. That works out to nearly 2000 posts/year.
> 
> 
> 
> Try the old math, Freddie. It works a lot better than this new Prog math, you monopolizer, you...




Blah blah blah. You talk a lot, but you don’t actually say very much that’s interesting.


----------



## FeXL

This is what Progs always say when they get their asses handed to them in an even argument...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Blah blah blah. You talk a lot, but you don’t actually say very much that’s interesting.


----------



## FeXL

Yep. Another one.

For It Before He Was Against It



> _ John Kerry warns against mass immigration during an interview with The Guardian this week: “Look at Europe! Europe’s already crushed under this transformation that’s taken place because of immigration.” pic.twitter.com/rEH8V0BFKA
> 
> — Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) November 17, 2018_​
> I sense a pattern.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> This is what Progs always say when they get their asses handed to them in an even argument...


A hallmark of Freddie's NPC status.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> This is what Progs always say when they get their asses handed to them in an even argument...




It’s truly amazing how much you perceive your contributions here in a positive light.


----------



## Macfury

Appreciate your humility.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s truly amazing how much you perceive your contributions here in a positive light.


----------



## FeXL

There's something to be learned from every post I put on these boards, Freddie. That you (and those of your Prog ilk) choose wilful ignorance over the opportunity to learn something new is _not _my problem. I can only lead the horse to water...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s truly amazing how much you perceive your contributions here in a positive light.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> There's something to be learned from every post I put on these boards, Freddie. That you (and those of your Prog ilk) choose wilful ignorance over the opportunity to learn something new is _not _my problem. I can only lead the horse to water...




Like I said, it’s amazing how you view your contributions here in a positive light. Oh, the iron...


----------



## FeXL

Like I said, wilful ignorance.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said, it’s amazing how you view your contributions here in a positive light. Oh, the iron...


----------



## CubaMark

I don't know about you folks, but I'm a little miffed at my salad options of late. 

Where shall we cast the blame for my dietary restrictions? Well... howabout the Cheetoh-in-Chief?

*The Science Is Clear: Dirty Farm Water Is Making Us Sick*

The culprit turned out to be E. coli, a powerful pathogen that had contaminated romaine lettuce grown in Yuma, Arizona, and distributed nationwide. At least 210 people in 36 states were sickened. Five died and 27 suffered kidney failure. The same strain of E. coli that sickened them was detected in a Yuma canal used to irrigate some crops.

For more than a decade, it’s been clear that there’s a gaping hole in American food safety: Growers aren’t required to test their irrigation water for pathogens such as E. coli. As a result, contaminated water can end up on fruits and vegetables.

After several high-profile disease outbreaks linked to food, Congress in 2011 ordered a fix, and produce growers this year would have begun testing their water under rules crafted by the Obama administration’s Food and Drug Administration.

But *six months before people were sickened by the contaminated romaine, President Donald Trump’s FDA – responding to pressure from the farm industry and Trump’s order to eliminate regulations – shelved the water-testing rules for at least four years.*

Despite this deadly outbreak, the FDA has shown no sign of reconsidering its plan to postpone the rules. The agency also is considering major changes, such as allowing some produce growers to test less frequently or find alternatives to water testing to ensure the safety of their crops.

The FDA’s lack of urgency dumbfounds food safety scientists.
(Wired)​


----------



## FeXL

At the first conservative you can find, of course!



CubaMark said:


> Where shall we cast the blame for my dietary restrictions?


----------



## FeXL

Scam Exposed: Donations To Clinton Foundation Plummeted After Clinton Lost The Election

Let's go right to the punch line:



> But the most glaring indictment of the Clinton Foundation came from what happened last year, _after_ Hillary Clinton lost the election — and effectively ended her political career.
> 
> First, the Clinton's almost immediately shuttered the Clinton Global Initiative and laid off 22 employees.
> 
> Now, fresh financial documents show that contributions and grants to the Clinton Foundation plunged since Hillary lost her election bid. They dropped from $216 million in 2016 to just $26.5 million in 2017 — a stunning 88% fall. Throughout Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, the foundation pulled in an average of $254 million a year. (See the nearby chart below for a timeline.)
> 
> If the Clinton Foundation was as good as defenders claimed, why did all its big-time donors suddenly lose interest? The only reasonable explanation is that donors weren't interested in what the foundation supposedly did for humanity. They were interested in the political favors they knew their money would buy.


----------



## FeXL

Of course! The parallels are stunning. And Trump is literally Hitler! Ahhhhhh!!!

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Compares Migrant Caravan To Jews Fleeing Holocaust



> New York Democratic Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Sunday compared members of the migrant caravan attempting to enter the United States to Jews fleeing Nazi Germany during the Holocaust.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> At the first conservative you can find, of course!


There are conservatives who appreciate the benefits to society of appropriate regulation, particularly when it comes to food safety.

Trump ain't one of 'em.

And it's pretty telling that your fanboi fascination with the Doofus in the White House would lead you incapable of admitting that there is a causal link between cutting food inspection regulations and the appearance of contaminated foodstuffs.

But that's pretty much what anyone in here expects of you....


----------



## FeXL

Heresy!



CubaMark said:


> There are conservatives who appreciate the benefits to society of appropriate regulation, particularly when it comes to food safety.


Where did I deny the connection? Quote the exact passage. Be specific.

And, while you're unsuccessfully looking for that quote, how's about you find that non-firearms school protection plan you touted earlier on?

And, _and_, still waiting for that first instalment of 50 Amish gay killings articles you were going to post.



CubaMark said:


> And it's pretty telling that your fanboi fascination with the Doofus in the White House would lead you incapable of admitting that there is a causal link between cutting food inspection regulations and the appearance of contaminated foodstuffs.


----------



## FeXL

Dems are Nazi's, too? :yikes:

Kase.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Stateside, too.

General Motors Plans to Close 5 North American Plants, Cut More Than 14K Jobs



> The assembly plants pegged for closure are Oshawa Assembly in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada, Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly in Detroit, and Lordstown Assembly in Warren, Ohio. Propulsion plants targeted are Baltimore Operations in White Marsh, Md., and Warren Transmission Operations in Warren, Mich. Layoffs would amount to 14,700 jobs.


Related:

Auto Industry Bailout 



> The U.S. government’s $80.7 billion bailout of the auto industry lasted from December 2008 to December 2014. The U.S. Department of the Treasury used funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. In the end, taxpayers lost $10.2 billion.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk tear-gassed women & children.

The Media Is Omitting The Reason Why Border Officials Decided To Use Tear Gas Against The Caravan



> U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials were forced to use tear gas against the migrants in response to their attempt to storm the border, but many outlets focused more heavily on the U.S.’s response and less on what prompted it.
> 
> Many outlets including the New York Times and Associated Press chose to focus on the agents’ decision to use tear gas instead of explaining why they felt that they had to resort to such tactics.
> 
> “The truth is, the majority of the people that are in this caravan, especially outside — if we can make our way all the way over there, we’ll show you the majority of them are men,” _MSNBC_’s Gadi Schwartz stated earlier on Monday. “From what we’ve seen, the majority are actually men and some of these men have not articulated that need for asylum.”


_MSNBC_?! Shocka...

Related:

Tear gas used once a month at border under Obama



> The same tear-gas agent that the Trump administration is taking heat for deploying against a border mob this weekend is actually used fairly frequently — including more than once a month during the later years of President Barack Obama’s administration, according to Homeland Security data.
> 
> U.S. Customs and Border Protection has used 2-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile, or CS, since 2010, and deployed it 26 times in fiscal 2012 and 27 times in 2013. The use dropped after that, but was still deployed three times in 2016, Mr. Obama’s final full year in office.


And what'd we hear from the MSM & the Progs (but I repeat myself)?

Crickets...

Related, too:

Was Photo Of Migrant Mother 'Fleeing Tear Gas' With Children At U.S. Border Staged?



> Shortly after hundreds of migrants battled U.S. border agents in a violent conflict on Sunday, one photo began being highlighted in the mainstream media.
> 
> The photo shows a woman pulling her children, reportedly fleeing tear gas fired by U.S. authorities.


More:



> But one observant Twitterer found some unusual things in the very same picture posted above. In the background, it appears as if many people are not fleeing anything, and a photographer with a camera on a tripod appears to be taking pictures of a child running as another photographer shoots people "posing as if fleeing."
> 
> ...
> 
> "Look at the high resolution picture of the guys in the back holding each other for the photographer to make it look like they are running," wrote another.


Questions, questions, questions...

Related, three:

Shocking Report from MSNBC: The Majority of "Migrants" Are Adult Men, Not Women and Children as Previous #FakeNews Reports Intimated



> _"From what we’ve seen, the majority are actually men and some of these men have not articulated that need for asylum. Instead, they have talked about going to the United States for a better life and to find work," Schwartz added. _​


Related, four:

Jim Acosta's Heroic War Against Reality



> We are real news, Mr. President.
> 
> Benny Johnson put together a video contrasting Acosta's assertions (there is no caravan, etc.) with reality caught on video.
> 
> Conclusion: Jim Acosta roughs up the truth as if it's a slender White House intern.
> 
> _ Jim Acosta lectured President Trump about the migrant caravan saying:
> 
> - Not an invasion
> - Hundreds of miles away
> - Would not jump border wall
> 
> I overlaid actual footage from today of the migrant caravan storming the border to invade the US over Jim's question.
> 
> I hope you enjoy: pic.twitter.com/p3vQogWnIJ
> — Benny (@bennyjohnson) November 26, 2018_​


M'bold.

Nails it.

Where would we be without The Accoster's input?

Freddie, that one's for you.

Related, five:

The Morning Rant



> "A group of about 100 people trying to illegally cross the border Sunday near the San Ysidro port of entry threw rocks and bottles at U.S. Border Patrol agents, who responded by using pepper spray and other means to force the crowd back into Mexico, federal officials said. Oh, wait. *That was the lead paragraph of a news story from Sept. 2013.* Funny, I don't remember any anti-ICE outrage or 24/7 media coverage. What could have changed?"


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk The Relgion Of Peace s'more.

Man Arrested for Attempting to Repeatedly Run Down Jews; Most Likely a Trump Supporter



> You can tell he's a Trump supporter by his name: Mohammad Mohammad.
> 
> _ The man reportedly insulted a group of Jewish people leaving the synagogue before he got into his vehicle and attempted to run them over, the Los Angeles Police Department told the local NBC affiliate.
> 
> The suspect's car crashed into another vehicle. No one was injured during the incident, according to NBC Los Angeles.
> 
> Mohammed, who was charged with assault with a deadly weapon with a vehicle, is reportedly being held on $55,000 bail.
> 
> "Why he chose us? Probably because of the yarmulkes on our heads," one of the people targeted, who asked to remain anonymous, told CBS Los Angeles.
> 
> There has been an increase in anti-Semitic hate incidents in recent years, with an almost 37 percent spike in anti-Semitic hate crimes in 2017, according to the FBI in a recent report. _​


----------



## FeXL

RAAAAASIS'!!!

Hillary Clinton Calls for Europe to End Mass Immigration... To Stop Trump, of Course



> Keep the foreigners out to stop Trump!
> 
> _ *European leaders should push for greater control over immigration in order to deal with the rise of right-wing politics, according to former Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton.*
> 
> "I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame," Clinton told U.K. newspaper The Guardian in an interview published Thursday.
> 
> Clinton suggested that immigration was inflaming voters and contributed to the election of President Donald Trump and Britain's June 2016 vote to leave the EU._​


Bold mine.

'Cause it's all those righty immigrants that are protesting... XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It amazes me how much you assume people are actually reading what you post here.


----------



## Macfury

I read all of it. Isn't that enough?



Freddie_Biff said:


> It amazes me how much you assume people are actually reading what you post here.


----------



## FeXL

Frankly, Freddie, I don't want you to read a single thing I post. Not one word. I want you to revel in your Prog world.

Better yet, put me on ignore. Permanently...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It amazes me how much you assume people are actually reading what you post here.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Frankly, Freddie, I don't want you to read a single thing I post. Not one word. I want you to revel in your Prog world.
> 
> Better yet, put me on ignore. Permanently...


Remember FeXL, you and I drove all of "the good people" away to the progressive paradises of MacMagic and MacDiscussions. Funny that both those sites are completely defunct -- and we're not.

But by all means stop posting FeXL. Censor yourself because you're triggering Freddie and it will drive the rest of the "good people" away.


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Stateside, too.
> 
> General Motors Plans to Close 5 North American Plants, Cut More Than 14K Jobs
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> Auto Industry Bailout


The high number of plant closures proposed for the U.S., compared to one in Canada and 0 in Mexico, looks like a bargaining chip (ie. there are "no plans" for those plants...but there could be). They may give a couple back. 

Either way, it looks bad to tout negotiating skills, with a focus on autos, and then to lose plants or end up with state/federal governments giving up more subsidies to keep what was already there.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> The high number of plant closures proposed for the U.S., compared to one in Canada and 0 in Mexico, looks like a bargaining chip (ie. there are "no plans" for those plants...but there could be). They may give a couple back.


Interesting...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Barry: <snort> You _didn't_ build that... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Obama takes credit for U.S. oil-and-gas boom: 'That was me, people'



> Former President Barack Obama took credit once again for the U.S. oil-and-gas boom, even though critics noted Wednesday that the upswing in oil and natural gas production occurred in spite of his policies.
> 
> Mr. Obama told the audience at a gala for Rice University’s Baker Institute that he was “extraordinarily proud of the Paris accords” before saying “I know we’re in oil country and we need American energy.”
> 
> “You wouldn’t always know it, but it went up every year I was president,” he said to applause. “That whole — suddenly America’s like the biggest oil producer and the biggest gas — that was me, people.”


Liars gonna lie...


----------



## FeXL

The ‘hate signs’ that went with those nooses hung in Mississippi seem kind of important



> So, obviously, some white supremacists were trying to scare black voters away from the polls in Mississippi where Democrat Mike Espy, who is black, faces Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith in a runoff election Tuesday, so they hung nooses from the trees outside the Mississippi State Capitol.
> 
> That’s what you’d think, anyway, from tweets like these...


But wait!



> *Judging by the signs, they were put up by Espy supporters, whose apparent intention was to remind people of Mississippi’s racist past and get them to vote for the black Democrat and not for the Republican woman who doesn’t “respect the lives of lynch victims.”*


Yeah, bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hey, Barry: <snort> You _didn't_ build that... :lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> Obama takes credit for U.S. oil-and-gas boom: 'That was me, people'
> 
> 
> 
> Liars gonna lie...


Almost all of the boom involved state licensing, which Obama could not quash. What an arrogant SOB.


----------



## FeXL

And they wonder why they're mocked?

SHOCK POLL: Roughly Half Of Millennials Think America Isn’t Great, Think Obama More Important Than George Washington



> A new poll conducted for the Foundation for Liberty and American Greatness (FLAG) found that a huge percentage of younger Americans are expressing their disdain for American ideals; almost half believe America isn’t great, and roughly 20% think the American flag is “a sign of intolerance and hatred.” 29% were okay with burning the American flag.
> 
> The poll, conducted by YouGov.com, surveyed 1,078 Americans under the age of 38. Its disturbing findings, as reported by the Washington Examiner, included the astonishing claim by 44% of respondents that Barack Obama had a “bigger impact” on the United States than President George Washington, the man who led the successful revolution against Great Britain, presided over the writing of the Constitution, served as the country’s first president, and took the historically unprecedented action of stepping down from leading his country to ensure a peaceful transition of power.


If it had not been mandated by law, can you imagine Barry ever stepping down? Hell, he would have made himself Emperor for life!

Related (this is interesting...):


----------



## FeXL

Further on GM.

What’s Good for General Motors?

Skipping right to the punch line:



> There is a reason for the rise of populist sentiment in America. It comes down to a sense that the game is rigged.
> 
> And it is often very hard to argue that it is not.
> 
> Next time GM comes around with its hand out, many Americans will think, Donald Trump should slap it away.
> 
> Hard to see how if this latest move is good for GM, it is also good for America.
> 
> Engine Charlie wept.


----------



## FeXL

Further on that peaceful, non-existant migrant caravan.

Oops! The Media Got the Caravan Wrong



> Over there at Breitbart and also at the New York Post, John Nolte and Rich Lowry have nailed it exactly.
> 
> To wit: the media got the caravan thunderously, embarrassingly wrong.


More:



> The question, then, is why? How on earth could anyone watching what has been going on with this caravan of people storming across borders, knocking down the gates separating Guatemala from Mexico — and possibly think this was not going to happen when these same people reached the U.S. border?
> 
> Fox’s Brit Hume tweeted out the obvious answer: “TDS makes for bad politics and bad journalism.”
> 
> “TDS,” of course, is “Trump Derangement Syndrome.” And Hume, Nolte, and Lowry all got it exactly right.
> 
> The fact that what was coming in terms of migrants storming the border — violently — was so starkly obvious, *only to see smart journalists* (and Smith and Acosta were far from alone on this) close their eyes and stoutly insist it would never happen is breathtaking in its wrongheadedness.
> 
> Yes, yes. I understand they don’t like President Trump. But there’s a huge difference between honest political differences with a President (or anyone else), and being so overcome with a foaming rage at the man that it blinds to a reality that should be obvious to your average five-year-old.


Bold mine.

<snort> So much for "smart"...

Related:

DHS: 400 Migrants Faked Age, Child’s Status to Get Through Border in 2018



> Almost 400 migrants carried other people’s children or youths, or lied about their adult age, to get over the border in the nine months prior to September 30, according to the Department of Homeland Security.
> 
> The data about large-scale fakery corroborates the few media reports which show how migrants are renting other people’s children to trigger loopholes which allow the adults to get over the border and be released into the U.S. job market. The data also shows rational willingness of poor migrants to get decent jobs in the United States by lying to wealthy, foreign Americans on the U.S. border.


So, if it all starts out as a lie, what are the chances it will ever get better?


----------



## FeXL

The Anti-Nancy Pelosi Coalition Caves, Will 'Negotiate' For Concessions



> The coalition of Democratic Representatives opposing Rep. Nancy Pelosi's return to Speaker of the House has all but collapsed, according to The New York Times, and the group's ringleader is now petitioning the likely Democratic leader for concessions and guarantees instead.
> 
> Representative Seth Moulton (D-MA), who was the lead author of an open-letter addressed to Pelosi, issued at the beginning of last week, was talking tough until Tuesday, when he told the NYT that he was looking to collaborate with Pelosi instead, and perhaps win a few concessions. And although he didn't specifically say he'd be dropping his challenge as payment for Pelosi's attention, the quid-pro-quo is certainly implied.


From what I've read, she's still 34 Dem votes short. It's gonna be a pleasure to see Trump make her squirm for GOP support... 

Related:

Sounds About Right



> _ Adam Schiff wept as he helped nominate Pelosi for speaker, per sources
> — John Bresnahan (@BresPolitico) November 28, 2018_​


Read about "Rain Dove" inside...


----------



## FeXL

Damn those evil Deplorables!!!

New York Times Columnist on Trump Supporters: ‘Maybe They’re Just Bad People’



> _New York Times_ columnist and MSNBC contributor Michelle Goldberg has a novel theory about Trump supporters: “Maybe They’re Just Bad People.”
> 
> That’s the title of her latest column for the _Times_, in which Goldberg speculates that the energy spent by liberal political analysts trying to explain why intelligent people would support, or work with, President Donald Trump may be wasted, since the simplest explanation — one that may fit the prejudices of _Times_ readers — is that they are just evil.


Booo!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hillary's Former Hatchet Man Screaming, Walking Around Fox Studio With No Pants



> Normal guy.
> _
> Debated @HillaryClinton’s former senior advisor @PhilippeReines tonight...
> 
> 1) Afterwards he came at me screaming like a maniac (I thought he was going cry)
> 
> 2) He told me to “clean the pubic hair off my face.” Whatever that means?
> 
> 3) *Best part, he had no pants on* 😂#Unhinged pic.twitter.com/cwfGqvfPHE
> — Harlan Z. Hill (@Harlan) November 28, 2018_​


Bold mine.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Still with the Russkies...

The Media Continues to Buy Into Any RussiaGate Hoax-Claim, No Matter How Implausible



> Yesterday's #FakeNews was a bombshell Guardian report that Paul Manafort had had "secret talks" with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange in March 2016.
> 
> This is part of the FusionGPS narrative that there was "collusion" between Trump and Assange (who in turn, colluded with Russia) about the DNC hack.
> 
> Apparently, the Ecudorian Embassy in London, where Assange is a permanent guest, did not bother to have Paul Manafort sign the guest register, and this heavily-video-surveilled embassy had no videotape of his arrival. And no foreign intelligence agencies proffered any videotape of Manafort's visit.
> 
> *After Wikileaks and Manafort completely denied the claim, and Wikileaks threatened to sue, The Guardian began stealth-editing the the story to walk it back, adding in #JustKidding words like "apparently" and "sources say" and changing verb tenses from simple declarative past to conditional would have past in order to signal a level of doubt and lack of verification that the original Fusion produced hit carefully researched piece lacked.*


Bold mine.

Curious, that...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> make her squirm for GOP support...


I think Trump wants her to resume her role as a national embarrassment--the votes will be hers without much negotiation.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Related (this is interesting...):


Interesting as in... Gee, look, there's FeXL peddling birther conspiracies again, and not even good ones. Doesn't it get tiring to constantly reveal yourself as a complete idiot? Or are you just trolling again? Either way, typical.

_Whoever took the time to make this image apparently didn’t take the extra time to change the number on the card. After the card made the initial rounds, Snopes revealed the card number belonged to another student, who appears to be caught up in this simply because he posted his card to the web in 1998.

The picture of Obama on the fake ID is definitely not of the president as a young college student. It looks like the photo was taken in 1999, when Obama was in his late 30s and a state senator in Illinois.

What’s more convincing is Columbia University didn’t even start using digital ID cards until 1996 — 13 years after Obama graduated.

"This is a fake," said Robert Hornsby, a spokesman for the university, to PolitiFact. "We didn't even have such IDs then."

Finally, Obama’s ID would not have said "foreign student," and not just because Obama was born in Hawaii. Hornsby said Columbia doesn’t even label student IDs like that._
(Politifact)​


----------



## FeXL

I just found it interesting. Didn't say it was accurate. Didn't say it wasn't. Merely interesting. 

And, again, Snopes? Pulease...

As far as looking like an idiot is concerned, this coming from the guy who furnishes the rebuttal to his own argument _in his own quote_. And can't find a gun-free solution to school security despite the fact the he says he already has one. Or linking 50 articles naming _any_ non-Islamic religion on the planet for crimes committed against mankind, despite the fact that he said he would.

Get a grip, CM. You'll find one of about three remaining idiotas on this board in the mirror. Not surprisingly, they're all Progs...



CubaMark said:


> Interesting as in... Gee, look, there's FeXL peddling birther conspiracies again, and not even good ones. Doesn't it get tiring to constantly reveal yourself as a complete idiot?


----------



## FeXL

There goes another Prog narrative...

Border Patrol Agents Arrest an MS-13 Gang Member Who Had Traveled With the Carvan to Seek Political Asylum in America, I Guess



> All of these people say they are fleeing gang violence.
> 
> This guy, I guess, was fleeing himself. I guess he beats himself up like Jim Carrey at the end of Liar, Liar.
> 
> _ Border Patrol agents assigned to El Centro Sector arrested a gang member Saturday evening.
> 
> The incident occurred at approximately 6:09 p.m., when agents encountered a man just east of the Calexico Port of Entry suspected of being in the United States illegally. After a short interview, the man told agents he is a Honduran citizen and active gang member with the notorious Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) international crime organization. The man also told agents he traveled to the United States border with a large group of people from Central America intending on filing for asylum in the United States.
> 
> The man was taken to El Centro station for further questioning. At the station records checks revealed the man is 29-year-old Jose Villalobos-Jobel, a citizen of Honduras. Again, Villalobos confirmed his story of his gang involvement and intent on entering the United States illegally._​


----------



## FeXL

Further on the General.

Destroyed for Nothing



> General Motor’s announcement that it’s cutting thousands of jobs and closing several plants has met intense criticism because the company was the beneficiary of a $50 billion government bailout in 2009—which wound up costing taxpayers $11 billion—even as the government awarded the United Auto Workers’ health-care fund a 17.5 percent stake in the restructured company. Like many big American companies, GM has been the recipient of government-subsidized largesse over several decades. One particular piece of this history is especially noteworthy now. Nearly 40 years ago, in one of the most egregious cases of eminent domain abuse in American history, GM built a plant on land seized from homeowners and businesses in Detroit, obliterating a multi-ethnic neighborhood known as Poletown—all for a plant that will now be shuttered so that GM can invest somewhere else in new manufacturing facilities.


More:



> Beset by foreign competition, America’s automakers began retrenching in the late 1970s, closing manufacturing facilities in and around Detroit even as the city struggled to rebound from the riots of 1967. Dodge had closed a giant plant in Hamtramck, a suburb that adjoins the Poletown neighborhood, and when GM announced that it wanted to build a new plant somewhere in America with modern industrial technology—though it was closing plants elsewhere—Detroit officials pleaded for an opportunity to find a site for the new facility. *Mayor Coleman Young came up with a plan: seize some 1,500 homes and 144 businesses in Poletown, a low-income community of 3,500 where Polish immigrants had once settled.*


M'bold.

And what political stripe was Coleman Young? Yeppers...

Interesting history.


----------



## FeXL

WOW: Money Raised After Pittsburgh Shooting Went To An Islamic Center With Terror Ties; UPDATE: A Clarification



> In late October, Robert Gregory Bowers, a vicious anti-Semite, walked into the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh and shot and killed 11 people. Several people were injured, four of which were police officers. It was tragic—but of course, everyone blamed President Trump for reasons only morons understand. There were protests when he visited the site. Everyone was creating controversy when there needed to be none. But now, we have another controversy that could be brewing that isn’t related to Trump. It centers on *anti-Semite Linda Sarsour* lending her support to raise funds for the victims of the shooting.


More:



> Now, some money was given to Tree of Life, around $10,000, but that was part of an effort to repair Jewish cemetaries that were vandalized. Since the shooting, around $240,000 was raised, but it appears little, if any, has been sent to Tree of Life. *Of that $240,000-figure, $155,000 went to the the Islamic Center of Pittsburgh.*


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL

The Tolerant Left



> _ White liberals present themselves as less competent when addressing minorities, while conservatives use the same vocabulary no matter what the race of their audience, according to a newly released study.
> 
> Yale and Princeton researchers found that both white Democratic presidential candidates and self-identified liberals played down their competence when speaking to minorities, using fewer words that conveyed accomplishment and more words that expressed warmth._​
> Of course they do.


Naaaah...

Related:

Of Course: Study Shows White Liberals Talk Down To Minorities, Avoiding Language That Demonstrates Higher Competency



> Obviously. They think of minorities as PeTA thinks of animals, or pro-lifers think of babies: incompetents incapable of standing on their own.
> 
> At least PETA and pro-lifers have a strong case to made there.
> 
> What will White Liberals say about this? What will their explanation be?
> 
> Oh, there won't be one: the media won't bother to explore this very interesting finding.
> 
> _ This article on Yale's website was published almost two weeks ago. _​
> Ah, there you go. Media liberals who #LoveDaScience just happened to completely miss this article for two weeks until John Sexton found it.


----------



## FeXL

Stormy Daniels: Michael Avenatti Sued Trump for Defamation Against Her Wishes, Supposedly



> Well, Avenatti was just arrested for roughing up a woman against her will. _So_.
> 
> So, here's the background, if you've forgotten: Avenatti/Daniels sued Trump for defamation, which was a tactical mistake, because if they got nailed under the anti-SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation -- a nuisance suit designed to keep someone from speaking on a matter of legitimate public interest) she could get shellacked for Trump's costs and attorney's fees.
> 
> This was an awful decision. They had a weak case and the possibility of this turning into the world's first case of a porn star having to pay a guy for sex was real.
> 
> Stormy Daniels is now on the hook for, what, $300,000 in legal fees or something?


It's difficult to feel any pity for either of them...


----------



## FeXL

Manafort, Corsi, Stone — Oh My!



> _ Remember this day when the Guardian permitted a serial fabricator to totally destroy the paper's reputation. @WikiLeaks is willing to bet the Guardian a million dollars and its editor's head that Manafort never met Assange. https://t.co/R2Qn6rLQjn
> 
> — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 27, 2018_​


Comments hilarious.


----------



## FeXL

Break Them Up



> Into a hundred thousand million pieces.
> 
> These patents tell us that Google is developing smart-home products that are capable of eavesdropping on us throughout our home in order to learn more about us and better target us with advertising. It goes much further than the current Google Home speaker that’s promoted to answer our questions and provide useful information, and the Google-owned Nest thermostat that measures environmental conditions in our home. What the patents describe are sensors and cameras mounted in every room to follow us and analyze what we’re doing throughout our home.
> 
> *They describe how the cameras can even recognize the image of a movie star’s image on a resident’s t-shirt, connect it to the person’s browsing history, and send the person an ad for a new movie the star is in.*​


Bold mine.

Not now, not in a million years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I just found it interesting. Didn't say it was accurate. Didn't say it wasn't. Merely interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> And, again, Snopes? Pulease...
> 
> 
> 
> As far as looking like an idiot is concerned, this coming from the guy who furnishes the rebuttal to his own argument _in his own quote_. And can't find a gun-free solution to school security despite the fact the he says he already has one. Or linking 50 articles naming _any_ non-Islamic religion on the planet for crimes committed against mankind, despite the fact that he said he would.
> 
> 
> 
> Get a grip, CM. You'll find one of about three remaining idiotas on this board in the mirror. Not surprisingly, they're all Progs...



“I just found it interesting. Didn't say it was accurate. Didn't say it wasn't. Merely interesting.”

And this coming from the guy who expects absolute total accountability from every other poster. Oh the iron...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

_*Total *_accountability? Freddie, you don't even attempt a ghost of a defense of your posts. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> “I just found it interesting. Didn't say it was accurate. Didn't say it wasn't. Merely interesting.”
> 
> And this coming from the guy who expects absolute total accountability from every other poster. Oh the iron...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Would have been a great meme if he had said it. As it is, another patented Freddie Failure, curated from the million free memes he might have posted here.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Would have been a great meme if he had said it. As it is, another patented Freddie Failure, curated from the million free memes he might have posted here.




You seriously need to develop a sense of humour.


----------



## Macfury

If it was really funny I would have given it a pass. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> You seriously need to develop a sense of humour.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I expect nothing from you Progs. Seldom am I disappointed...

'Sides, what are you doing reading my posts? No less than you, yourself, recently claimed _nobody reads them_. 

I've warned you off. Your head may explode...



Freddie_Biff said:


> And this coming from the guy who expects absolute total accountability from every other poster.


----------



## FeXL

Huh. 'Magine that...

Because the US Stood Up to the Border Rushers and Refused to Let This Tactic Win, No Matter How Much Bad Press the Administration Got For It, Migrants Start Saying They Regret Joining the Caravan and Start Heading Home



> Hey NeverTrumpers -- tell me that your precious Maaaario or Jeb! or John Kasich would have faced the fire and simply said, "NO."
> 
> _ TIJUANA, Mexico--After fleeing tear gas shot at the U.S. border, Carlos Gonzalez confessed confusion and second thoughts about the caravan that carried him to doorstep of his dream: life in the United States.
> 
> The 40-year-old corn farmer from Honduras, wearing a pink breast cancer awareness hat and an orange work vest, had hopped on the caravan of Central American migrants figuring it would facilitate his entry into the country. It set out from San Pedro Sula, Honduras, on Oct. 12 and for five weeks he could hope and dream--especially as the caravan pushed past police barricades and crossed through closed borders in Guatemala and Mexico.
> 
> But the U.S. border has proved impossible so far for the more than 7,000 migrants anxiously arriving in Tijuana, where they're waiting in the squalor of a small baseball stadium-turned-tent city. It's just a stone's throw from the border they hope to cross, which many could not imagine would be so difficult.
> 
> "I thought it would be easy," said Gonzalez, who traveled north with his wife and two children, ages 4 and 3. *He said his family was planning to sign up with Mexican officials for voluntary repatriation.*_​
> Hey Erick Erickson -- he's going back home and all we needed was to defend the fence. We didn't have to fund authoritarian regimes dropping dissenters out of helicopters. We just had to say "NO." We just had to stop pissing our pants and bowing to leftist media pressure as our cucked party always does (due to the cuck pants-****ters who lead it and fancy themselves as real stalwarts).
> 
> The migrants freely admit their tactic is to front their columns with human shields go garner sympathy:
> 
> _ Women and children were walking at the front of the march, he said, "to see if they would let them enter."_​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

A couple stories you won't find on Jake Tapper covering...

Illegal Alien Pleads Guilty To Horrifying Rape, Murder Of Islamic Teenager



> An illegal alien pleaded guilty on Wednesday to raping and murdering an Islamic teen last year in a horrifying case near a mosque in Fairfax County, Virginia.
> 
> Darwin Martinez Torres, 25, pled guilty to the capital murder and rape of 17-year-old Nabra Hassanen as part of a deal that allows him to avoid the death penalty in exchange for a life sentence behind bars.
> 
> Martinez Torres, an illegal alien from El Salvador, is a "suspected member of notorious street gang MS-13," according to the Daily Mail.


Illegal immigrant pulls gun on Border Patrol agent



> Violence against Border Patrol agents continued to spiral this week with authorities reporting one agent held at gunpoint by an illegal immigrant in California, and two agents in Arizona facing attacks by hand.
> 
> In the California incident agents responded Monday morning to a report that two illegal immigrants had been detected crossing the border on foot. The first man was apprehended without any problem, but the second, Hector Rodriguez-Chavez, aimed a loaded Star Echeverria pistol at an agent.


----------



## FeXL

REPORT: One-Third Of Migrant Caravan Sick: HIV, Tuberculosis, Chickenpox



> Thousands of migrants marched from Central America to the U.S. border over the last six weeks, but many of them are suffering from *respiratory infections, tuberculosis, chickenpox and other serious health issues — including HIV*.
> 
> Of the 6,000 migrants gathered in Tijuana just south of the U.S. border near San Diego, more than a third of them (2,267) are being treated for health-related issues, a spokesman for Tijuana's Health Department told _Fox News_.


M'bold.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hey NeverTrumpers -- tell me that your precious Maaaario or Jeb! or John Kasich would have faced the fire and simply said, "NO."


Face the fire? The NeverTrumpers would have been delighted if they had been let in.



FeXL said:


> REPORT: One-Third Of Migrant Caravan Sick: HIV, Tuberculosis, Chickenpox


Again, this would be a reason for leftists to want to give them entry.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Again, this would be a reason for leftists to want to give them entry.


Agree entirely.

Thing is, they'd want them let in _before_ they were treated.


----------



## FeXL

Related to Tapper's trip to the hall.

1st Amendment For Me, But Not For Thee...



> _ Hillary Clinton had secret service escort me out of her book signing when I asker her and Huma Abedin a series of questions, as a journalist.
> 
> I should sue.
> — Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) November 16, 2018_​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Agree entirely.
> 
> Thing is, they'd want them let in _before_ they were treated.


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

Further on pervs & ancient history.

Clintons’ Speaking Tour Opens to 83% Empty Seats, Coughing Fit



> The Daily Mail reports that this latest money grab from the Clintons managed to attract only 3,300 in a stadium that holds 19,800 — which works out to 83 percent empty. This figure is made even more embarrassing by the fact that as the date of the event neared, the venue was not able to give tickets away at just $6.55 each. Ticket prices started between $200 and $53 Canadian.
> 
> *On top of that, in the middle of the event, Hillary had one of her famous coughing fits, which was caught on video.*


When you've lost the Red Star:



> The _Toronto Star_’s review of the night earned the headline, “Hillary and Bill Just Won’t Go Away.”
> 
> If this were a free tour, or a tour where all the profits went to charity, the optics would be much better. As it is, especially when you remember the Clintons are already worth hundreds of millions of dollars, it looks like just another cynical cash grab for two people who already have more money than they could ever hope to spend.


Related:

Sorry Lib Media: Bill Clinton Took 26 Junkets with Sexual Deviant Epstein — Trump Banned the Perv From Mar-a-Lago


----------



## FeXL

FBI Raids Home of Clinton Foundation _Whistleblower_



> The FBI now exists to protect the Democrats and attack anyone who endangers a Democrat.
> 
> _* The FBI raided the home of a whistleblower who was in possession of documents regarding the Clinton Foundation and Uranium One, according to the whistleblower’s lawyer, Michael Socarras.
> 
> The whistleblower, Dennis Nathan Cain, had turned the documents over to the Department of Justice’s inspector general and both the House and Senate Intelligence committees, according to the lawyer.
> 
> The FBI rummaged through Cain’s home for six hours, even after the whistleblower handed over the documents, according to Socarras.*_​


Links' bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff

It’s life, Jim, but not as we know it


----------



## Macfury

Trump should not have attended the funerals of either of those characters. They did him a favour by excusing him!


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> REPORT: One-Third Of Migrant Caravan Sick: HIV, Tuberculosis, Chickenpox


Headline is extremely misleading. I believe one harms their cause with this approach. There are valid anti-illegal-immigrant arguments that do not require deceptive reporting. 


> Of the 6,000 migrants gathered in Tijuana just south of the U.S. border near San Diego, more than a third of them (2,267) are being treated for health-related issues, a spokesman for Tijuana's Health Department told *Fox News*.
> 
> *There are three confirmed cases of tuberculosis, four cases of HIV/AIDS and four separate cases of chickenpox, the spokesman said.*


Plus calling chicken pox a serious health condition is a bit far fetched. 

Head and body lice are of course another matter and can lead to very serious diseases such as typhoid. The Nazis were very aware of this issue. They resorted to particularly brutal showers, shaving peoples heads and gassing clothing with cyanide in unsuccessful efforts to eradicate these pests. Despite that typhus and starvation were major killers within the work camps. 

I wonder how the yanks will deal with this issue as these migrants seem destined to end up in what are euphemistically referred to as refugee camps.


----------



## FeXL

Breaking News: Voter Fraud 'Legal' in Commiefornia



> Allow me one moment to put on my "surprised" face.
> - Who 'knew' besides the Democrats...surely not the GOP, or most voters.
> 
> They call it "ballot harvesting" [read: voter fraud*] which is illegal everywhere BUT California (and certain 3-rd world **** hole dictatorships).
> - What is it? Allowing third-parties...even paid political operatives...to submit mail-in ballots on behalf of others. [think: nursing home residents, non-existent people on the voter rolls, etc.]


----------



## FeXL

The Boondoggle Continues



> Well, a few remaining Republicans in Sacramento managed to get an audit done. *The price tag is up to 77 billion dollars.*
> 
> _ Pushing to break ground on California's high-speed rail project before critical planning for the Central Valley line was in place drove up its cost by $600 million, with that "flawed decision" potentially increasing the price tag by another $1 billion, state Auditor Elaine Howle said Thursday.
> 
> And more financial problems are looming for high-speed rail. . . . _​
> I seem to have heard this story before.
> 
> _ The audit released Thursday was done at the request of the Joint Legislative Audit Committee. Assemblyman Jim Patterson, R-Fresno, a critic of the rail project, said the report shows that high-speed rail is "dead in the water."
> 
> "There will never be a completed track from the Bay Area to Los Angeles," Patterson said. "This project cannot be revived in its current state, and this audit is further proof that the best we can hope for is a rump railroad running from Bakersfield to Madera."_​


Bold mine.

Stunning...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The Boondoggle Continues
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> Stunning...


We need to use this model to build high-speed rail from Windsor to Montreal.


----------



## Dr.G.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor..._htK7c3Cv_gZLnKXuZUfXBGa1YnDDYVUgZn2PeXAJ9gJo

The ultimate "fake news", but quite funny nonetheless. Paix, mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor..._htK7c3Cv_gZLnKXuZUfXBGa1YnDDYVUgZn2PeXAJ9gJo
> 
> 
> 
> The ultimate "fake news", but quite funny nonetheless. Paix, mes amis.




Not that far from the truth really.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hey Macfury: there’s this special on TV right now about George H. W. Bush called “Remembering 41.” I’m surprised you’re not ranting and raving about how they have their numbering system wrong.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not that far from the truth really.


:clap::lmao::clap: So true. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Macfury: there’s this special on TV right now about George H. W. Bush called “Remembering 41.” I’m surprised you’re not ranting and raving about how they have their numbering system wrong.


I'm very surprised you would raise your incompetence at math yet again Freddie. Remember the last episode you lost so badly?


----------



## Macfury

Are you enjoying the show?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Macfury: there’s this special on TV right now about George H. W. Bush called “Remembering 41.” I’m surprised you’re not ranting and raving about how they have their numbering system wrong.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I'm very surprised you would raise your incompetence at math yet again Freddie. Remember the last episode you last so badly?




Hey Don, is it true or false that Trump is 45?


----------



## SINC

What has that got to do with your 40% wage cut?


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> What has that got to do with your 40% wage cut?


ZZZZiiiiiiiing!!! :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> What has that got to do with your 40% wage cut?




Simple math, Don. Either Trump is 45 or he isn’t. What do you think he is?


----------



## FeXL

Simple math, Freddie. Either one percent = one percentage point or it isn't. What do you think it is?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Simple math, Don. Either Trump is 45 or he isn’t. What do you think he is?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Simple math, Don. Either Trump is 45 or he isn’t. What do you think he is?


Nothing to do with your math on that 40% cut you took. 

Trump is what he is, so pick the people who you debated on that issue to continue it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Nothing to do with your math on that 40% cut you took.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump is what he is, so pick the people who you debated on that issue to continue it.




I did. Why did you answer a question that was addressed to Macfury?


----------



## FeXL

Gawd. This again? 

Grow TF up, Freddie. This isn't your CALM class...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I did. Why did you answer a question that was addressed to Macfury?


----------



## FeXL

24 Month Recession Watch Returns To High Alert



> Grim Stock Signals Piling Up as Wall Street Mulls Recession Odds;
> 
> _ Nine turbulent weeks and a correction in U.S. stocks have left analysts with a thorny question. What’s the market saying about the economy?
> 
> And while few see incontrovertible signs investors are bracing for a recession, it’s a word that’s been coming up more as they seek a signal in the chaos._​


I agree w/ this comment:



> *Much more likely to happen in Canada, thanks to total mismanagement of the economy by Trudope and Butts. A nice made in Canada recession, thanks to stifling regulations, taxes and higher interest rates. Just in time for the election.
> Despite Juth-tins massive deficit spending, it has been a failure, of course.*
> OTOH, the US will fare ok. The rise in rates has had a n effect to take some steam out of the economy, but wasnt that the desired effect anyways? Just to bring it back a bit. TRUMP’s tax cuts and deregulation scheme will maintain their economic record, tariffs notwithstanding.


Bold mine.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> I did. Why did you answer a question that was addressed to Macfury?


Sigh. Gee whiz man, I didn't answer a question addressed to Macfury, I asked you a question because I was curious, but you changed the subject, by asking me a question that was unrelated. You still have not answered my question.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Sigh. Gee whiz man, I didn't answer a question addressed to Macfury, I asked you a question because I was curious, but you changed the subject, by asking me a question that was unrelated. You still have not answered my question.




Don, the question was what number is Trump? 45, as the rest of the world seems to believe, or 44, as Macfury has contended. The tribute on the news was for 41, George H. W. Bush, so you do the math. It's not that hard. You're the one who changed the subject. This IS the American thread after all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Gawd. This again?
> 
> 
> 
> Grow TF up, Freddie. This isn't your CALM class...




Grow the fukc up yourself, arsehole. Is Trump 45 or not? Was George H. W. Bush 41 or not?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey Macfury: there’s this special on TV right now about George H. W. Bush called “Remembering 41.” I’m surprised you’re not ranting and raving about how they have their numbering system wrong.




For the record, Don, this was the post you decided to respond to.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Are you enjoying the show?



To be honest, it has been delightfully non-partisan so far. Politics has changed over the years, and not in a good way. It’s hard to believe but the 90’s were a Golden Age by comparison.


----------



## Dr.G.

Thought I would peak into this thread to see what was being discussed, and if the personal attacks were getting less .......... 'tis the season to be more peaceful, n'est ce pas?

What did I miss re Trump not being the 45th president? Or, is this a trivia question, in that Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms in office and is therefore counted as the 22nd and 24th President of the United States. Thus, 44 men served as president, but 45 presidents in total. What am I missing?

Anyway, on this first night of Hanukkah, shalom mes amis.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Dr.G. said:


> Thought I would peak into this thread to see what was being discussed, and if the personal attacks were getting less .......... 'tis the season to be more peaceful, n'est ce pas?
> 
> 
> 
> What did I miss re Trump not being the 45th president? Or, is this a trivia question, in that Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms in office and is therefore counted as the 22nd and 24th President of the United States. Thus, 44 men served as president, but 45 presidents in total. What am I missing?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, on this first night of Hanukkah, shalom mes amis.




That’s exactly it, Dr. G. I was corrected by Macfury once for referring to Obama as 44 and Trump as 45 for exactly this reason, so when I saw the broadcast referring to HW as 41, I thought it might settle the matter. Apparently not, and the personal attacks continue unabated. Such an unwelcoming place, ehMac can be sometimes. Happy Hanukkah. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s exactly it, Dr. G. I was corrected by Macfury once for referring to Obama as 44 and Trump as 45 for exactly this reason, so when I saw the broadcast referring to HW as 41, I thought it might settle the matter. Apparently not, and the personal attacks continue unabated. Such an unwelcoming place, ehMac can be sometimes. Happy Hanukkah.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the background info, mon ami. Happy Hanukkah to you as well. Shalom.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


>


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

There's the compassionate, intellectual Freddie we all know & love so much... :clap:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Grow the fukc up yourself, arsehole.


Dunno, don't care. Wasn't a topic I ever felt was worth arguing about.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Is Trump 45 or not? Was George H. W. Bush 41 or not?


----------



## FeXL

We were that close...

Broward County Election Official Brenda Snipes 'UN-RESIGNS' After Florida Gov Threatens To Revoke Her Pension



> Broward County's supervisor of elections, Brenda Snipes, has "withdrawn her resignation," the Hill reports, after Florida Governor Rick Scott threatened to cut off her pension.
> 
> Snipes, who presided over an utterly embarrassing recount effort in Broward County following the 2018 midterm elections, told reporters on Saturday, through her attorney, that she refuses to be shamed by Scott and would not simply leave office quietly.


'Course not.

More:



> "Dr. Snipes hereby rescinds her resignation,” attorney Burnadette Norris-Weeks told media, adding that the governor's efforts to remove Snipes from office before January were nothing more than an attempt to "tarnish [Snipes’s] record.”


You mean, even more than it already is?

Further:



> "Cynthia Busch, chairman of the Broward County Democratic Party, questioned *why Scott did not appoint someone from the community and appointed someone who is a 'Republican Party stalwart*,'" the Times reported. "Rep. Shevrin Jones, a Democrat from Broward, called the suspension a 'play on his politics on his part.'"


M'bold.

As opposed to...what? The Democratic Party stalwart they're getting rid of? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, let's talk lefty pervs s'more!

Chairman of California Democrat Party Resigns Over Multiple Sexual Misconduct Allegations;
Media Strangely Muted Over Story



> Yes, there is some coverage, but pretty much just a headline and then they move right on.
> 
> Nothing to see here, folks. MoveOn.org.


Curious, that.

More:



> Oh, of course he's saying he's going to get treated for alcohol abuse.
> 
> I have to start drinking more, or at least creating a paper trail of claiming I drink a lot, so I always have this Demon Rum Made Me Do It excuse in my back pocket.
> 
> *Hey, remember when saying that if you're famous women let you grab them by the pussy was big news?*
> 
> Not anymore.


Bold mine...


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant: Middle School Edition



> The Pentagon's Massive Accounting Fraud Exposed: How US military spending keeps rising even as the Pentagon flunks its audit.
> 
> _ On November 15, Ernst & Young and other private firms that were hired to audit the Pentagon announced that they could not complete the job. Congress had ordered an independent audit of the Department of Defense, the government's largest discretionary cost center -- the Pentagon receives 54 cents out of every dollar in federal appropriations -- after the Pentagon failed for decades to audit itself. The firms concluded, however, that the DoD's financial records were riddled with so many bookkeeping deficiencies, irregularities, and errors that a reliable audit was simply impossible._​
> *Nope. Unacceptable. Until our men at arms don't have to buy their own equipment, you asshats don't get to hide behind the complexity of your organization. If you can't do it, then we need to find men who can.*


M'bold.

Yep.


----------



## FeXL

Illegal Aliens in a Dismantled Identity Theft Ring



> For the most part, when the issue of crimes related to illegal immigration is raised, the discussion most often turns to crimes committed by illegal aliens that cause death or grievous injuries to the victims, whether the crime involved an assault or a motor vehicle accident at the hands of an unlicensed and/or drunk-driving illegal alien.
> 
> Undoubtedly there is no shortage of such infuriating and tragic examples of the consequence of illegal immigration.
> 
> Of late, attention has focused on transnational gangs such as MS-13 that has its origins in El Salvador and Los Angeles, California; however, it must be noted that because human nature is human nature, transnational gangs can be found in every ethnic community whose residents come from every country on this planet.
> 
> There are other crimes, however, that have a direct nexus to illegal immigration that do not directly involve violence or loss of life but nevertheless claim huge numbers of victims in the United States that may have a profound and life-altering impact.
> 
> One of the most serious of those crimes involves the theft of the identities of millions of United States citizens and lawfully-admitted immigrants whose citizenship, lawful immigrant status and good names are valued commodities that provide millions of illegal aliens with a sort of “camouflage.”


Related:

Census Bureau Data: 63% of non-citizens are on welfare



> A majority of “non-citizens,” including those with legal green card rights, are tapping into welfare programs set up to help poor and ailing Americans, Census Bureau data shows. In fact, 63 percent of non-citizens are using a welfare program. *Moreover, instead of decreasing over time, the number grows to 70 percent for those here 10 years or more.*


Bold mine.

Related, too:

On Immigration, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry Discover Their Inner Trump

In sum?



> The criticism Clinton faced from the left over her practical, commonsensical analysis says a lot about where Democrats stand on immigration — legal and illegal. *Much of the Democratic base ignores this issue, is indifferent about it or has done a cost-benefit analysis and believes that immigrants-turned-citizens-turned-mostly-Democrat-voters outweigh the financial, social or political price.*


M'bold.

Related, three:

Six MS-13 Gang Members Accused of Butchering Massachusetts Teen



> Six members of the MS-13 gang are accused of butchering a Massachusetts teenager with a knife as if they were “chopping wood.”


More:



> Prosecutors believe the MS-13 members—many of whom are illegal aliens—murdered Rivas because he was thought to be cooperating with law enforcement.
> 
> One of the six suspects, a 19-year-old Salvadorean national named Henri Salvador Gutierrez, had evaded deportation the month before the murder.
> 
> Authorities say Salvador successfully convinced an immigration judge that he was not a threat to public safety or involved in a gang.
> 
> In fact, at least four of the suspects entered the U.S. illegally from El Salvador, and immigration authorities had detained at least two of the suspects before releasing them.


----------



## FeXL

BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!

Fox and NationalGeographic, Producers of "Cosmos," Investigating Allegations of Sexual Misconduct Against Series Host/Planetarium Button-Pusher Neil DeGrasse Tyson



> Now Tyson, and I imagine the whole leftwing, is demanding evidence to back up a woman's claim of misconduct.
> 
> Surprisingly enough!
> 
> _ Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson has responded to recent allegations of sexual misconduct by posting a lengthy statement online, in which he denies wrongdoing and says he welcomes an impartial investigation by the producers of his show Cosmos.
> 
> "In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it's just one person's word against another's, and the stories don't agree? That's when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom," wrote Tyson, director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City._​


WTF? Suddenly, the left is interested in _actual proof_ of sexual assault! :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> _ The Daily Caller’s Richard Pollock has an exclusive report on an FBI raid. When I say FBI raid, I mean FBI raid. It involved some 16 agents making a house call on whistleblower Dennis Nathan Cain. The problem here seems to be that Cain is blowing the whistle on federal law enforcement (or the nonfeasance thereof) in matters pertaining to the Clinton crime family. As if that weren’t enough, Robert Mueller’s past service as FBI Director is implicated as well._​
> More: “… Ms. West communicates her understanding that the FBI personnel who raided the home of Mr. Cain were unaware of his confirmed and protected whistleblower status. If accurate, that’s very interesting.”


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

'Stunning': 80% using Obamacare's Medicaid expansion are ineligible, Louisiana report finds



> Louisiana’s legislative auditor wanted to know how the state’s expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare was doing, so he picked 100 people who were deemed eligible under the rules.
> 
> He found that 82 of them made so much money that they shouldn’t have qualified for the benefits they received.
> 
> Auditor Daryl G. Purpera, who issued his findings last month to little fanfare outside of Louisiana, figured if those statistics hold true for the rest of the expanded Medicaid population in his state, then the losses to ineligible beneficiaries could be as high as $85 million.


More:



> “The report is stunning. It is breathtaking. There are not words in English to describe what our legislative auditor found,” said Sen. John Kennedy, Louisiana Republican. *“The Department of Health just threw the money in the dirt.”*


A gov't department pi$$ing away money?

Shocka...

Further:



> *The Medicaid expansion was a key part of Obamacare. It made the federal-state health care program available to people whose incomes put them slightly above the poverty line — enough to not qualify under the old program but too little to qualify for subsidies to buy plans on Obamacare’s market exchanges.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

It's a start...

Jihadist Beheader In Oklahoma Cleared For Execution



> This fall, the U.S. Supreme Court essentially cemented the execution of America’s least known Islamic terrorist. Jihadist convert Alton Nolen is now set to be put to death in Oklahoma, likely by nitrogen gas inhalation.
> 
> The Supreme Court’s October 1, 2018 rejection of Nolen’s final death penalty appeal went unremarked upon by news media so, partly as a result, I missed it. But the Nolen case is very much worth remembering, along with all terror attacks that occur on U.S. soil, if not just for the victims and their survivors but for lessons that can and must be learned.


----------



## FeXL

Can the GOP Attract Young Voters? Try Beer



> If the Republicans want to attract young voters, then lead the charge to repeal the National Minimum Age Drinking Age Act that Democrats in Congress passed in 1984.


Hiss. Spit. Boo...

More:



> *As far as I am concerned, if you are old enough to fight and die for America, you are old enough to drink a beer.*


What I've been saying for years...


----------



## FeXL

NYT: Elizabeth Warren Stands By Her DNA Test. But Everyone Else Think She's an Stupid Old Prune-Idiot Sourcrotch.



> _The plan was straightforward: After years of being challenged by President Trump and others about a decades-old claim of Native American ancestry, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts would take a DNA test to prove her stated family origins in the Cherokee and Delaware tribes.
> 
> But nearly two months after Ms. Warren released the test results and drew hostile reactions from prominent tribal leaders, the lingering cloud over her likely presidential campaign has only darkened. Conservatives have continued to ridicule her. More worrisome to supporters of Ms. Warre'’s presidential ambitions, she has yet to allay criticism from grass-roots progressive groups, liberal political operatives and other potential 2020 allies who complain that she put too much emphasis on the controversial field of racial science -- and, in doing so, played into Mr. Trump's hands.
> 
> *Advisers close to Ms. Warren say she has privately expressed concern that she may have damaged her relationships to Native American groups and her own standing with activists, particularly those who are racial minorities. Several outside advisers are even more worried: They say they believe a plan should be made to repair that damage, possibly including a strong statement of apology.*_


Links' bold.

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Tim Cook of Apple: We Want to Ban the Bad People From Using Our Products



> Say no more. I'll never buy Apple again.
> 
> _ Apple CEO Tim Cook suggests it's "a sin" to not ban certain people from social media and technology platforms: "We only have one message for *those who seek to push hate, division, and violence*: You have no place on our platforms. You have no home here." pic.twitter.com/gO5qB6bBuO
> — Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) December 4, 2018_​


Bold mine.

At first blush, any rational person could hardly be faulted for thinking Tim was talking about Progs, Antifa, etc. However, I'm willing to bet he's talking about _los deplorables_...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Tim Cook of Apple: We Want to Ban the Bad People From Using Our Products
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> At first blush, any rational person could hardly be faulted for thinking Tim was talking about Progs, Antifa, etc. However, I'm willing to bet he's talking about _los deplorables_...


If Cook keeps squandering Apple's brand capital, they'll beg ANYBODY to use their products. What an utter disaster as CEO.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> If Cook keeps squandering Apple's brand capital, they'll beg ANYBODY to use their products. What an utter disaster as CEO.


Well, you're using a MacPro 3,1. I've got a MacPro 5,1, a 17" MacBook Pro 4,1 and an iPhone 5.

I honestly don't know a single person with a MacPail; I've certainly no interest and, seeing as they've discontinued 17" 'Books, I'll be settin' on this one a while longer.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Well, you're using a MacPro 3,1. I've got a MacPro 5,1, a 17" MacBook Pro 4,1 and an iPhone 5.
> 
> I honestly don't know a single person with a MacPail; I've certainly no interest and, seeing as they've discontinued 17" 'Books, I'll be settin' on this one a while longer.


Yep. I'm looking for a 2012 MacPro right now, as they get closer to $500. Possibly that was Apple's last good year. Cook is milking all the goodwill out of the place.


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> Tim Cook of Apple: We Want to Ban the Bad People From Using Our Products
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> At first blush, any rational person could hardly be faulted for thinking Tim was talking about Progs, Antifa, etc. However, I'm willing to bet he's talking about _los deplorables_...


This is so much more like a dictator then anything Trump does. The very notion that it is acceptable to ban or remove people who refuse to hold your views and accept your values and morals make you undesirable to society in his eyes and those like him. They can call Trump Hitler all they want but I see the dangerous future where you most tow the moral line as given by the government or else you will not work, you will be an outcast and deemed unworthy of life itself.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> ... They can call Trump Hitler all they want *but I see the dangerous future where you most tow the moral line as given by the government or else you will not work, you will be an outcast and deemed unworthy of life itself.*


Ironic as that is exactly the reason Hitler and Stalin are vilified.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> This is so much more like a dictator then anything Trump does. The very notion that it is acceptable to ban or remove people who refuse to hold your views and accept your values and morals make you undesirable to society in his eyes and those like him. They can call Trump Hitler all they want but I see the dangerous future where you most tow the moral line as given by the government or else you will not work, you will be an outcast and deemed unworthy of life itself.


:clap::clap::clap:

Yep. Cook is clearly expressing his intolerance for anyone with a disparate view from his.

Whose the actual bigot?


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Yet one more lefty perv resigns his position.

Colour me surprised...

Senior Kamala Harris Aide Resigns Over Sexual Misconduct Allegation



> Kamala Harris claims she had no idea of this major scandal happening right under her poorly-shaped nose.
> 
> Quick, let's nominate her for Commander in Chief before she changes her mind.
> 
> _ Advisor Larry Wallace submitted his resignation to the California lawmaker after the Sacramento Bee inquired about a 2017 sexual harassment suit that targeted Wallace. *Wallace reportedly settled the matter with a $400,000 payout to an employee who alleged, among other things, that she was told to crawl into some tight locations that would likely reveal more of her skin.*_​


Links' bold.

Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Soros payouts to Dems s'more!

Nooo! Anti-Israel Extremist Rashida Tlaib Received Stipend from George Soros, But Misrepresented That Monetary Support in Financial Disclosures



> It's weird that George Soros funds antisemitism and then cries "Antisemitism!" when he's criticized.
> 
> _ Congresswoman-elect Rashida Tlaib (D., Mich.) did not disclose the name of the source of funds for a fellowship that was paid by liberal billionaire George Soros—as required by the House ethics committee00and also disclosed a lesser amount than she received, according to a review of tax and financial disclosure forms.
> 
> The Washington Free Beacon obtained the most recent copies of tax forms for a number of Soros's organizations, including the Open Society Institute, the legal name for the Open Society Foundations, the entity in which Soros pushes millions in funding to a number of liberal causes and organizations._​


----------



## FeXL

Gawd, she sounds jes' like The Dope, don't she. Exactly what does the headline quote mean?  Justice for what?

Ocasio-Cortez: Green Jobs Are the 'Mechanism Through Which We Can Deliver Justice' to Underserved Communities



> Tied up in the climate change debate is a New Deal-type jobs program for American workers, Representative-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) told a climate change panel on Capitol Hill Monday.
> 
> *Transitioning to renewable energy will create jobs and industry, she said*


Bold mine.

No $h!t, Sherlock. Gov't designed, taxpayer supported, inefficient make work programs have a tendency to do just that...

And, _and_, even more from Loopy:

Ocasio-Cortez Issues New 'Living Wage' Demand For Congress; Critics Point Out A Few Problems



> Representative-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez isn't officially in office just yet, but that doesn't mean she's not already calling on her future colleagues to take action on her initiatives. Her newest agenda item: a "DC living wage" for everybody on Capitol Hill.
> 
> In a series of posts Monday, Ocasio-Cortez said that after meeting "several" people employed in Senate and House offices working side jobs in order to make a living, she believes it's time for Congress to set the example for the nation by providing a "DC living wage" to all people working on Capitol Hill.





> Like everything she posts, the democratic socialist's new demand was instantly met with pushback. Some noted the problem with her description of her $174,000 congressional salary as a "living wage" (h/t Twitchy):
> 
> _ You're making $174,000 a year as a member of Congress. That's not a "living wage," that's a damn good living! Almost $500 PER DAY. You're an embarrassment to Congress.
> — Mark Dice (@MarkDice) December 4, 2018
> 
> Men and Women in Congress are overpaid at $174K per year.
> — allimama7 (@amdenijs7) December 3, 2018_​
> Others suggested she should set the example by spreading the wealth around using her own sizable salary:
> 
> _ Start by making an example and give away your salary to those workers.
> — Kalvin McClain (@Kalvin_McClain) December 3, 2018
> 
> You can feel free to redistribute your new found wealth to your staffers.
> 
> I know you won't though.
> — Chris Rogerson (@chris_rogerson_) December 4, 2018_​
> ...
> 
> Some made the same point a little more bluntly:
> 
> _ Hello! It is a privilege to get an unpaid internship. That is how people move up in the world. EXPERIENCE!!!! Pharmacy residents and doctors who are residents get paid very little. That is part of the moving up process. *Snowflakes want everything for no work.*
> — Monogamous Apostate (@MApostate) December 4, 2018_​


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Transitioning to renewable energy will create jobs and industry, she said


Yep. We can create lots of jobs by having people riding pedal-power generators.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Yep. We can create lots of jobs by having people riding pedal-power generators.


Can you imagine?

Unions, benefits, $15/hr minimum wages, gold-plated retirement packages. Prog heaven!!! :love2:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Can you imagine?
> 
> Unions, benefits, $15/hr minimum wages, gold-plated retirement packages. Prog heaven!!! :love2:


As CubaMark says, some people suffering from fossil fuel derangement syndrome are willing to accept gross inefficiency, unaffordable prices and intermittent power in the name of Gaia.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> As CubaMark says, some people suffering from fossil fuel derangement syndrome are willing to accept gross inefficiency, unaffordable prices and intermittent power in the name of Gaia.


Hair on 'em!


----------



## FeXL

Obviously, the optimum solution is...

...*separate drinking fountains*...



> The *Demographic Inclusion Task Force* “concluded that the best way to meet the needs of students of color and low income students’ needs was to create *the Person of Color theme house*."


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

Art Of The Deal



> _Fiat Chrysler, riding a wave of strong truck and SUV sales, is planning to build a new final assembly plant in Detroit even as other American automakers scale back operations in the U.S., according to people familiar with the plan._​


----------



## CubaMark

*And yet another one bites the dust. People just can't stand to be around this guy....*

*Donald Trump says chief of staff John Kelly to leave post at end of year*


----------



## Macfury

I had hoped Kelly would be gone faster. A wonder Trump put up with him for this long.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I had hoped Kelly would be gone faster. A wonder Trump put up with him for this long.


This.


----------



## CubaMark

_Donald Trump, taking "coin toss" 'waaaaaaaaay too literally:_










*Related:* _Normal Man Donald Trump Hilariously ****s Up Army-Navy Coin Toss_


----------



## Dr.G.

"Donald Trump, taking "coin toss" 'waaaaaaaaay too literally:" Mark, cut Trump some slack. It was reported that his bone spurs were acting up, and memories of his past football days were recalled. Still, the bone spurs kept him from serving in the Army and not from playing football.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

They said coin toss, so I tossed it. They should have said coin flip, and then I would have flipped it. Who knew?


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> They said coin toss, so I tossed it. They should have said coin flip, and then I would have flipped it. Who knew?


:lmao::lmao::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Seriously? That's it? That's _all_ you can find to be critical of? Nothing else? Guess the US is in pretty damn good hands, then.

Pretty thin gruel, CM. Even by your standards...



CubaMark said:


> Donald Trump, taking "coin toss" 'waaaaaaaaay too literally:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Seriously? That's it? That's _all_ you can find to be critical of? Nothing else? Guess the US is in pretty damn good hands, then.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty thin gruel, CM. Even by your standards...




Your hero is an idiot. Glad you’re proud.


----------



## eMacMan

Could be representative of any one of about 95 US senators.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, the only idiot here is you if you think I think Trump is a hero.

I've noted on these very boards numerous times in the past: There is much to be legitimately critical of Trump. Instead, the only "criticism" you Progs can muster is a coin toss or his hair or an umbrella or a bone spur or some such fluff. 

You'd be taken a bit more seriously on these boards if your arguments contained meat instead of gristle. As it is, you're all just laughing stock for the rest of us...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your hero is an idiot. Glad you’re proud.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Freddie, the only idiot here is you if you think I think Trump is a hero.
> 
> I've noted on these very boards numerous times in the past: There is much to be legitimately critical of Trump. Instead, the only "criticism" you Progs can muster is a coin toss or his hair or an umbrella or a bone spur or some such fluff.
> 
> You'd be taken a bit more seriously on these boards if your arguments contained meat instead of gristle. As it is, you're all just laughing stock for the rest of us...


Cut Freddie some slack. It's easy for him to understand what a coin is, but anything more complicated than that makes his head hurt.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Cut Freddie some slack. It's easy for him to understand what a coin is, but anything more complicated than that makes his head hurt.


Well, there are a whole two sides... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Well, there are a whole two sides... :lmao:


Good grief man, what if the coin fell on its side? We need legislation to cover that!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Good grief man, what if the coin fell on its side? We need legislation to cover that!


They'd have to strike a subcommittee to study it, funded (of course) by taxpayer monies. They'd need an election to find a chairpeople, executive assistant, treasurer, HR, PR, etc., etc., etc.

And if, _if_, said coin fell on edge 5 times in eight years, they'd have to consult a genie (aka, mathematician) to see if that was equivalent to 40% in one year or not.

Whew. That tires me out just thinking about it... XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, the only idiot here is you if you think I think Trump is a hero.
> 
> 
> 
> I've noted on these very boards numerous times in the past: There is much to be legitimately critical of Trump. Instead, the only "criticism" you Progs can muster is a coin toss or his hair or an umbrella or a bone spur or some such fluff.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd be taken a bit more seriously on these boards if your arguments contained meat instead of gristle. As it is, you're all just laughing stock for the rest of us...



“On these boards?” You mean, by all three of you right wingers? Ya, I’m not exactly dying to be welcomed into your fold. I’m much happier to be a progressive thinker.


----------



## Macfury

Progressive, yes...



Freddie_Biff said:


> “On these boards?” You mean, by all three of you right wingers? Ya, I’m not exactly dying to be welcomed into your fold. I’m much happier to be a progressive thinker.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you show me a gen-u-wine progressive thinker & I'll show you a contradiction in terms...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m much happier to be a progressive thinker.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Freddie, you show me a gen-u-wine progressive thinker & I'll show you a contradiction in terms...


A jumbo shrimp of EhMac!


----------



## FeXL

Brilliant...

Trump sprang three traps on Pelosi and Schumer yesterday



> President Trump clearly shocked House speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer yesterday with his televising of the Oval Office sit-down over his demand for $5 billion in funding for border security, including funding of critical mileage for his border wall. *Knowing well that Pelosi had already vowed publicly that "transparency and openness" would characterize the Democrat-run House starting next month, her plaintive request to speak in private scored points for Trump and revealed her hypocrisy before any substance at all was considered.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Trump: Let's Debate the Wall in Public, Now
Pelosi and Schumer: No Let's Hide the Debate and Stage-Manage It
Leftwing Media and Cucks: This is Terrible, Why Won't Trump Agree to Stage-Manage the Democratic Process?



> The leftwing media and their cuck cocktail party plus ones are beside themselves over this.
> 
> Doesn't Trump know that Democracy is supposed to be stage-managed? How can you have a successful Failure Theater production without a script?
> 
> DOESN'T TRUMP KNOW WHAT HE'S DONE?!
> 
> THE PLEBIANS AND DEPLORABLES GOT TO SEE ACTUAL DISSENT. THIS MAY CAUSE THEM TO NOT HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEIR LEADERSHIP STRUCTURES!!!!!


The bad Orange Man's not playing by the rules... :-(

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Flashback: Obama Urges France to Elect Macron Because… ‘Hope, Not Fear’

Related:

Shocka! It _was_ the Russkies!!! 

Google CEO: After an Extensive Investigation, We Have Determined That the Russian Campaign Against the Very Foundations of Our Democracy Spent... Four Thousand, Seven Hundred Dollars on Ads. Total.



> Well. Let's do what the leftwingers and cuck neocons want and drop a few Unscheduled Sunrise bombs on Moscow then, huh?
> 
> _ Google CEO admits Russians only spent $4,700 on the 2016 election#GoogleHearing pic.twitter.com/HF5oj7k0Fq
> — PolishPatriot™️ (@PolishPatriotTM) December 11, 2018_​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Shocka! It _was_ the Russkies!!!
> 
> Google CEO: After an Extensive Investigation, We Have Determined That the Russian Campaign Against the Very Foundations of Our Democracy Spent... Four Thousand, Seven Hundred Dollars on Ads. Total.


And Soros spent...?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And Soros spent...?


I'm willing to bet it was an order of magnitude or 4 more than 4700 bucks...


----------



## FeXL

America’s Cold Civil War



> Six years ago I wrote a book about Barack Obama in which I predicted that modern American liberalism, under pressures both fiscal and philosophical, would either go out of business or be forced to radicalize. If it chose the latter, I predicted, it could radicalize along two lines: towards socialism or towards an increasingly post-modern form of leadership. Today it is doing both. As we saw in Bernie Sanders’ campaign, the youngest generation of liberals is embracing socialism openly—something that would have been unheard of during the Cold War. At the same time, identity politics is on the ascendant, with its quasi-Nietzschean faith in race, sex, and power as the keys to being and meaning. In the #MeToo movement, for example—as we saw recently in Justice Kavanaugh’s confirmation battle—the credo is, “Believe the woman.” In other words, truth will emerge not from an adversarial process weighing evidence and testimony before the bar of reason, but from yielding to the will of the more politically correct. “Her truth” is stronger than any objective or disinterested truth.
> 
> In the Claremont Review of Books, we have described our current political scene as a cold civil war. A cold civil war is better than a hot civil war, but it is not a good situation for a country to be in. Underlying our cold civil war is the fact that America is torn increasingly between two rival constitutions, two cultures, two ways of life.


Interesting read.


----------



## FeXL

Wonderful: As Paris Burns, Republicans Join Democrats to Put Tax on Carbon (The Invisible Killer)



> Is this how you got Trump? Because I think this sort of thing is how you got Trump.
> 
> _ A group of Republican and Democratic lawmakers have teamed up on a bill that would put a price on carbon as a way to reduce pollution and curb climate change._​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Wonderful: As Paris Burns, Republicans Join Democrats to Put Tax on Carbon (The Invisible Killer)


Charlie Crist used to be a cuck Republican.

Trump can veto this one...


----------



## FeXL

Sharyl Atkisson Digests Comey's Testimony For You



> A lot of unremembering, a lot of dissembling, and a lot of incompetency.
> 
> Read the whole thread at twitchy.
> 
> Or read Atkisson's full article at Epoch Times.
> 
> But here's a couple of important points:
> 
> _ Comey confirmed that controversial FBI lovers Peter Strzok and Lisa Page served both on the team investigating Hillary Clinton’s email practices and the team investigating Trump-Russia connections (p. 18).
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Comey says he would not have allowed Strzok and Page to serve on the Hillary email investigation if he had known about their private communications (p. 18).
> 
> Analysis: This appears to be an acknowledgment that the FBI investigation was tainted, or has the appearance of being tainted, by bias.
> 
> ...
> 
> Comey said he doesn't remember if the FBI asked State Department employee Bryan Pagliano who instructed him to set up Clinton's unusual private server. Comey says he doesn’t remember who Paul Combetta is (pp. 199-201).
> 
> Note: Combetta was involved in maintaining at least one of Clinton’s private servers. He destroyed subpoenaed email evidence, then is said to have lied to the FBI about doing so.
> 
> Context: The FBI granted Pagliano, Combetta and other Clinton associates immunity from prosecution. Typically, immunity is granted in return for information to prosecute others, but no such information was obtained from the immunized officials in the Clinton email probe.
> 
> Comey says he doesn't remember why the FBI granted Pagliano immunity (pp. 199-201).
> 
> Comey says he doesn't know if the FBI interviewed State Department official Patrick Kennedy (p. 204).
> 
> Comey acknowledged that FBI general counsel James Baker originally believed it was appropriate to charge Hillary Clinton with violating various laws regarding the mishandling of classified information (p. 230).
> 
> Note: Baker later changed his mind.
> 
> Comey says he sees no further reason to investigate Hillary Clinton's handling of classified email and claims "There's no serious person who thinks there's a prosecutable case there"(p. 84)._​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Trump: It was Great Being at the Army-Navy Game in the Presence of HEROES
Bill Kristol: How DARE You Call Them HEROES YOU MONSTER!!!



> You demented old coot, they don't call _themselves_ heroes, but there's no rule saying others shouldn't.
> 
> You know, for someone who did his level best to create a lot of _dead_ heroes, you sure don't like giving them their due.


----------



## FeXL

Victor Davis Hanson: In Order to Justify His Deviation from the Law, Robert Mueller Has Also Embraced Unequal Justice



> Mueller probably knew there was no "collusion" from early days, but, to justify his mandate and appease the leftwing media culture which is demanding he reverse the 2016 election, he has gone after a series of process crimes, crimes that did not precede the investigation, but occurred during the investigation -- claiming Flynn "lied" to investigators, for example. (Despite the fact that the investigators Flynn "lied" to say he didn't lie at all.)
> 
> Mueller has gone after peripheral figure racking up pleas for process crimes not associated even remotely with his actual ambit, which is Russian collusion.
> 
> *Well then, Victor Davis Hanson asks -- if you've gone beyond your brief to prosecute peripheral process crimes, why are you ignoring a rather large number of crimes committed by Hillary's Minions to set this all up?*


Bold mine.

Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Tax $$$ at work.

Feds Spend $149,631 To Determine How Ranchers ‘Perceive and Communicate’ About Climate Change



> The U.S. Department of Agriculture is spending roughly $150,000 to find out how ranchers "perceive and communicate" about global warming.
> 
> The Boise State University study is attempting to convince ranchers to take action on climate change through a "behavioral field experiment" that will test ranchers reactions to different "framings" of climate change.


I wonder how many different ways ranchers can articulate, "It's a crock of bull$h!t!"?


----------



## FeXL

Ah. Poor Progs lost another one... :-(

Judge rules Americans can secretly record public officials in victory for Project Veritas



> A federal judge ruled Monday that Americans have a right to secretly record their public officials, including police, when they are engaged in their government duties.
> 
> U.S. District Chief Judge Patti B. Saris said a Massachusetts law banning secret recordings violates the First Amendment when it comes to government employees, rejecting the state’s claims that officials need some space to be able to operate without having to worry about being monitored.


----------



## FeXL

But the _progressive thinkers_ tell me that there's no such thing as fraud in the US electoral system!!!

THE CHICAGO WAY: Thousands Of Residents Commit Fraud To Keep College Student Off Ballot



> A conservative college student attempted to take on the Chicago political machine and lost — but the way he lost may result in more than 2,600 residents charged with a felony.
> 
> ...
> 
> Krupa drives a forklift and is studying political science and economics. He needed 473 valid signatures from residents of the 13th ward in order to run for alderman. He got 1,703. In a strange — and corrupt — turn of events, before Krupa could file his signatures, 2,796 ward residents signed affidavits revoking their signatures to Krupa’s petition.


More:



> Just 187 of the signatures on Krupa’s original petition matched with those of the revocations, meaning 2,609 people committed fraud by signing an official legal document saying they had signed the original petition but hadn’t.


Further:



> Michael Dorf, the election attorney representing Krupa, called the case a “clown car of felonies”
> 
> “This is clown school and election fraud. This is going way, way beyond the line. David is a huge underdog. Go ahead and beat him on Election Day, or do subtle fraud, like taking away yard signs, but when this number of false affidavits are filed, you’re talking fundamental fraud, epic fraud,” Dorf told Kass.


And yes, they're Dems...


----------



## FeXL

Nonpartisan Unbiased Lifelong Republican Reverend Jim Comey: We Have Use "Every Breath We Have" To Push Trump Out of Office



> There are only two ways to explain this:
> 
> Either he was already incredibly biased against Trump at the start of of his "investigation" and therefore should have recused himself, or started unbiased but became outraged, radicalized, and insane _because Trump decided he wasn't doing a good job and fired him_.
> 
> Neither is very reassuring about this "investigation," the FBI, or the permanent Derp State of bureaucratic Washington.


----------



## FeXL

Under Fire For Its Immigration Detention Business, A Private Prison Operator Works To Keep Ex-Cons From Going Back To Jail



> * GEO Group, one of the country’s biggest private prison operators, has a little known division that helps parolees adjust to life after prison.
> * GEO Care officials worry the company is being unfairly vilified over its immigration detention center, while elected officials ignore the work it does with ex-offenders.
> * *In Illinois, the three-year recidivism rate for parolees who go through GEO Care’s re-entry programs is half the rate of those who don’t, the company says.*


Bold mine.

When threatening numbers like that go public, it's all the more reason for the Progs to shut 'em down.


----------



## FeXL

John Solomon: House Republicans Demand Email Chain Between Comey and Senior DOJ Officials, Which They Say Provide "Damning" Evidence that the FBI and DOJ Knew Their "Collusion" Case, and Their FISA Warrant, Were False From the Start



> This whole article should be read. I've excerpted the newest bits from it, but it's all pretty good, and best read as a complete piece.
> 
> _ Just before Thanksgiving, House Republicans amended the list of documents they'd like President Trump to declassify in the Russia investigation. With little fanfare or explanation, the lawmakers, led by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), added a string of emails between the FBI and the Department of Justice (DOJ) to their wish list.
> 
> Sources tell me the targeted documents may provide the most damning evidence to date of potential abuses of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), evidence that has been kept from the majority of members of Congress for more than two years.
> 
> The email exchanges included then-FBI Director James Comey, key FBI investigators in the Russia probe and lawyers in the DOJ’s national security division, and they occurred in early to mid-October, before the FBI successfully secured a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.
> 
> The email exchanges show the FBI was aware -- before it secured the now-infamous warrant -- that there were intelligence community concerns about the reliability of the main evidence used to support it: the Christopher Steele dossier.
> 
> The exchanges also indicate FBI officials were aware that Steele, the former MI6 British intelligence operative then working as a confidential human source for the bureau, had contacts with news media reporters before the FISA warrant was secured._​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Trump: It was Great Being at the Army-Navy Game in the Presence of HEROES
> Bill Kristol: How DARE You Call Them HEROES YOU MONSTER!!!


Kristol is angry because his fake conservative publication _The Weekly Standard_ is on the ropes.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Ah. Poor Progs lost another one... :-(
> 
> Judge rules Americans can secretly record public officials in victory for Project Veritas


:clap: Not good news for Trump, among many others... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

It was progs who objected to being recorded.



CubaMark said:


> :clap: Not good news for Trump, among many others... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It was progs who objected to being recorded.


Big time. They didn't appreciate their candid, unscripted, behind the scenes comments put on public display.


----------



## Dr.G.

What a travesty of justice!!!!!!!!!!! Poor Michael Cohen is being sent to Otisville, in upstate NY, not far from NYC. They might as well send him to serve on a Georgia chain gang. That prison is a "hell hole". There should be a law that prevents such harsh treatment towards any one person. Wait ............. there is .................. The Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/12/us/michael-cohen-prison-otisville/index.html

Some clips from Otisville Prison .............. "the hell hole of the north" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJPBjkz9FYw


----------



## Rps

Dr. G, it is curious he has until March to show up for imprisonment......maybe they are waiting to take advantage of a group rate..... similar to a 90 price guarantee......


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Dr. G, it is curious he has until March to show up for imprisonment......maybe they are waiting to take advantage of a group rate..... similar to a 90 price guarantee......


:lmao::clap::lmao: "Cheaper by the dozen."


----------



## FeXL

SDNY Attorney's Office Press Release: We Got AMI to Admit, In Exchange for Immunity, That They Paid off MacDougal for Her Story With the Specific Intent of Avoiding Disclosures During the Campaign, and In Coordination with Trump



> So Civil War, then.
> 
> The backstory: A former Playboy bunny or something named MacDougal was paid by the National Enquirer for her Trump story, and for a fitness column. She was paid $150,000 for exclusive rights. But the National Enquirer didn't run the story, and because they bought exclusive rights, MacDougal couldn't go blabbing about her affair or whatever with Trump.
> 
> Although, of course, she did anyway.
> 
> Which is a strange thing, isn't it? These women keep violating legal agreements to dish on Trump, almost as if they're being paid to do so, and so don't have to fear legal consequences of breaking contracts.
> 
> Anyway, AMI is the parent corporation of National Enquirer.
> 
> AMI has reached a plea deal and has received immunity for telling the US Attorney what the US Attorney wanted to hear, that this payment was made for the specific purpose of influencing a federal election and not just to keep a mouthy broad from disrupting Trump's marital relations. The former reason would require an FEC disclosure, while the latter reason would not.
> 
> The US Attorney needs someone to claim that these payments were made for _electoral_ and not personal reasons, and that's what they got.


What a tangled web we weave...


----------



## FeXL

Good for them!

Students Walkout to Protest Firing of Teacher Who Refused to Use Transgendered Student’s Preferred Gender Pronouns



> French Teacher Peter Vlaming was fired from West Point High School in West Point, Virginia for refusing to use a transgendered student’s preferred pronouns.
> 
> Vlaming attempted to accommodate the student by using her preferred name instead of any pronoun; an accommodation the school board found insufficient. “Mr. Vlaming was recommended for termination due to this insubordination and repeated refusal to comply with directives made to him by multiple WPPS administrators,” said Superintendent Laura Abel.
> 
> Less than 24 hours after Vlaming was fired, students held a walkout to protest the firing of Vlaming.


----------



## CubaMark

*Under Trump, the U.S. debt grew by the size of the Brazilian economy in just two years*

U.S. government debt is on track this year to rise at the fastest pace since 2012, as a stronger economy fails to keep pace with the wave of red ink that’s rising under the Trump administration.

Total public debt outstanding has jumped by $1.36 trillion, or 6.6%, since the start of 2018, and by $1.9 trillion since President Trump took office, according to the latest Treasury Department figures. The latter figure is about the size of Brazil’s gross domestic product.

If this year’s growth rate is sustained through the end of the year, it would be the biggest jump in percentage terms since the last year of President Obama’s first term, when the economy needed fiscal stimulus in the aftermath of the financial crisis.
As of Monday, the nation’s debt stood at a record $21.9 trillion.

The borrowing is needed to cover a budget deficit that expanded by an estimated $779 billion in Trump’s first full fiscal year as president, the widest fiscal gap in six years. *By the end of Trump’s first term, the debt is expected to rise by $4.4 trillion despite historically low unemployment, relatively low interest rates and robust growth.*

(LA Times)​


----------



## Macfury

You suddenly don't like government debt, CM? Did you have a personal revelation?


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> You suddenly don't like government debt, CM? Did you have a personal revelation?


I'm the only one who is concerned about debt (TM) regardless of party. Is someone stealing my bit to score partisan points? It's my own fault for not trademarking both real concern and fake concern.


----------



## Macfury

I don't like Trump's debt either. He should have killed Obamacare and reduced it.



Beej said:


> I'm the only one who is concerned about debt (TM) regardless of party. Is someone stealing my bit to score partisan points? It's my own fault for not trademarking both real concern and fake concern.


----------



## SINC

Never mind the US debt. Alberta alone may surpass the Turdeau federal debt that the country cannot afford, never mind a totally fcuked province by Notley and her Dippers.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> I don't like Trump's debt either. He should have killed Obamacare and reduced it.


9 out of 10 politicians agree: kicking the can down the road is good for the country.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You suddenly don't like government debt, CM? Did you have a personal revelation?


CM is fine with gov't debt as long as it's a Prog gov't spending on Prog issues.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> CM is fine with gov't debt as long as it's a Prog gov't spending on Prog issues.


More accurately, he would like to see the economy _become _the government, so that debt is not an issue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Are you a good Christian Freddie? Is that why you want to cast the first stone?


----------



## FeXL

Nancy, that's a feature, not a bug...

Pelosi: No wall funding, even if that means ‘government closed forever’



> On Thursday, House Democratic Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., indicated to reporters that she would rather keep the government shut down indefinitely than send a bill to President Trump’s desk that funds a border wall.
> 
> Asked why President Trump would sign a Democratic bill that doesn’t include wall funding, Pelosi replied, “Does he want to have government closed forever?”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Christian Bale talks about the time he got to meet the man we know as “Individual 1.”

 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donal...they-met/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=61028460


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Christian Bale talks about the time he got to meet the man we know as “Individual 1.”
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donal...they-met/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=61028460


This quote from your link completely destroys the cred of the fairy tale completely.



> I think he thought I was Bruce Wayne, because I was dressed as Bruce Wayne.


He thinks he thought, eh?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> This quote from your link completely destroys the cred of the fairy tale completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He thinks he thought, eh?




??

You’re not making sense, Don. “I think he thought I was Bruce Wayne.” Which part is the problem for you?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> ??
> 
> You’re not making sense, Don. “I think he thought I was Bruce Wayne.” Which part is the problem for you?


Let me spell it out for you:

"Bale thinks Trump thought, eh?"

Such a credible statement.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Let me spell it out for you:
> 
> "Bale thinks Trump thought, eh?"
> 
> Such a credible statement.


In Freddie's world, Christian Bale is a VERY important man!


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> In Freddie's world, Christian Bale is a VERY important man!


Who the f... is Christian Bale.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> Who the f... is Christian Bale.


He is better known for his role in '3:10 to Yuma' with Russell Crowe.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> Who the f... is Christian Bale.





SINC said:


> He is better known for his role in '3:10 to Yuma' with Russell Crowe.


As I recall it was Glenn Ford and Van Heflin who starred in 3:10 to Yuma. A true classic BTW.

So we are talking about a phony B or C list actor who was in a redo? Interesting the sort of people some are willing to present as spokesman.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> As I recall it was Glenn Ford and Van Heflin who starred in 3:10 to Yuma. A true classic BTW.
> 
> So we are talking about a phony B or C list actor who was in a redo?


It is indeed a classic and I watched both, first the original and then the remake with Bale.

It is well worth watching as he and Crowe give outstanding performances. Far from a phony B remake.

Bale is a fine actor and has starred in many productions with Batman being his worst:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale_filmography


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> It is indeed a classic and I watched both, first the original and then the remake with Bale.
> 
> It is well worth watching as he and Crowe give outstanding performances. Far from a phony B remake.
> 
> Bale is a fine actor and has starred in many productions with Batman being his worst:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale_filmography


:clap::clap::clap: I actually liked the remake better than the original. "It is well worth watching as he and Crowe give outstanding performances. Far from a phony B remake." So very true.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> It is indeed a classic and I watched both, first the original and then the remake with Bale.
> 
> 
> 
> It is well worth watching as he and Crowe give outstanding performances. Far from a phony B remake.
> 
> 
> 
> Bale is a fine actor and has starred in many productions with Batman being his worst:
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale_filmography




Christian Bale also portrays Dick Cheney in the new film Vice to be released next week. As an actor, he’s certainly been around the block a time or two.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Who the f... is Christian Bale.


Well... he _was_ *Batman!*


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, but I'm not interested in the political musings of Michael Keaton or Adam West either...



CubaMark said:


> Well... he _was_ *Batman!*


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> Well... he _was_ *Batman!*


I would say the best Batman we have ever had and the only decent DC movies, but that is a whole other discussion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yeah, but I'm not interested in the political musings of Michael Keaton or Adam West either...




Why, did Donald Trump meet them and think they were really Bruce Wayne also?


----------



## Macfury

You seem to have your fanboy finger on the pulse of Hollywood, so I'll leave such weighty political inquiries to you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why, did Donald Trump meet them and think they were really Bruce Wayne also?


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why, did Donald Trump meet them and think they were really Bruce Wayne also?


:lmao:


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Christian Bale also portrays Dick Cheney in the new film Vice to be released next week. As an actor, he’s certainly been around the block a time or two.


Christian Bale is amazing. 

His performance in The Machinist, a movie about a factory worker falling in and out of reality due to insomnia is incredible. He lost over 70lbs for the role. It's what got Nolan interested in him, and ultimately the role of Batman...


----------



## wonderings

smashedbanana said:


> Christian Bale is amazing.
> 
> His performance in The Machinist, a movie about a factory worker falling in and out of reality due to insomnia is incredible. He lost over 70lbs for the role. It's what got Nolan interested in him, and ultimately the role of Batman...


I agree great movie, I saw it before Batman and he looked "fat" in batman compared to the Machinist. He definitely takes his craft very seriously.


----------



## FeXL

So, a lower court has ruled Obamacare is unconstitutional & now it's headed to the SCOTUS.

Obamacare Going Back to Supreme Court, Now That Lower Court Has Ruled It Unconstititional



> Eighteen Republican states attorneys general and two Republican governors sued to strike down Obamacare, arguing that the original bull**** ruling upholding it did so by claiming that the tax power was broad, and that the individual mandate could be construed, sort of, as a tax, and ergo, Obamacare was a tax bill and was presumptively constitutional.
> 
> But since then, Congress passed, and President Trump signed, a law eliminating the tax that enforced the individual mandate -- the individual mandate still existed, in theory, but there was no penalty for ignoring it.
> 
> Thereby making Obamacare no longer a tax bill, and thereby stealing away Chief Justice Roberts' entire (phony) rationale for claiming an unconstitutional bill was unconstitutional.
> 
> A Texas federal judge agreed with this argument and voided Obamacare as unconstitutional.


Related:

(BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I agree great movie, I saw it before Batman and he looked "fat" in batman compared to the Machinist. He definitely takes his craft very seriously.




It’s good to know there are people around here who recognize talent when they see it.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s good to know there are people around here who recognize talent when they see it.


Gimme a break. I gave Bale full credit for his talent and roles. Just cannot agree on the Batman role. It sucked. 3:10 to Yuma was an example of the real talent of Bale.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> Gimme a break. I gave Bale full credit for his talent and roles. Just cannot agree on the Batman role. It sucked. 3:10 to Yuma was an example of the real talent of Bale.


Have to agree with Sinc here. Bale in 3:10 was a great performance, but his Batman role was OK at best.


----------



## CubaMark

Yup.

*'MURICA*

*A Texas Elementary School Speech Pathologist Refused to Sign a Pro-Israel Oath, Now Mandatory in Many States — so She Lost Her Job*

A CHILDREN’S SPEECH PATHOLOGIST who has worked for the last nine years with developmentally disabled, autistic, and speech-impaired elementary school students in Austin, Texas, has been told that she can no longer work with the public school district, after she refused to sign an oath vowing that she “does not” and “will not” engage in a boycott of Israel or “otherwise tak[e] any action that is intended to inflict economic harm” on that foreign nation. A lawsuit on her behalf was filed early Monday morning in a federal court in the Western District of Texas, alleging a violation of her First Amendment right of free speech.

(The Intercept)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Gimme a break. I gave Bale full credit for his talent and roles. Just cannot agree on the Batman role. It sucked. 3:10 to Yuma was an example of the real talent of Bale.



I never said you didn’t. However, it was the Batman role that was relevant to this thread...you know, the thing about Trump thinking Bale was really Bruce Wayne. How easily we get sidetracked. 

Haven’t seen 3:10 to Yuma, but I’m interested in checking out Bale in Vice. 

 https://youtu.be/aSGFt6w0wok


----------



## Macfury

Yup.

Cuba.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.45ac05dc327f



> Elsewhere around the city, Cubans went to local government offices to sign an oath pledging loyalty to the Revolution, and specifically to a definition of it that Castro laid out in a 2000 speech.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well that explains a few things. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steved...-exposes-putins-hold-over-trump/#1368153548f6




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well that explains a few things.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/steved...-exposes-putins-hold-over-trump/#1368153548f6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Briefly scanned over it. So unless I am missing something that article is saying the hold Putin had/has over Trump is that he knows Trump wants to built a hotel in Moscow that needs Putins approval. Was expecting something bigger and more dastardly.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Briefly scanned over it. So unless I am missing something that article is saying the hold Putin had/has over Trump is that he knows Trump wants to built a hotel in Moscow that needs Putins approval. Was expecting something bigger and more dastardly.


For all the noise coming from the Democrypts that's a mighty sketchy connection, especially when compared to the Uranium 1 deal on Hiliaries side of the fence. Or when compared to the Soros interference in elections around the world.


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> For all the noise coming from the Democrypts that's a mighty sketchy connection, especially when compared to the Uranium 1 deal on Hiliaries side of the fence. Or when compared to the Soros interference in elections around the world.


Appears that way, though not knowing everything or even following it all that closely hard to comment. I have to assume there is something worse then that, or it means something beyond just wanting to make a hotel in Moscow and having to work with Putin to accomplish it. That hotel deal would certainly not make or break Trump in terms of wealth.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Briefly scanned over it. So unless I am missing something that article is saying the hold Putin had/has over Trump is that he knows Trump wants to built a hotel in Moscow that needs Putins approval. Was expecting something bigger and more dastardly.


Yup--that's it. Except it's even sketchier than that. Trump decided that there was not enough reason to build the hotel long ago. "Ratty" Cohen insists that he carried out the failed negotiations a few months longer--something he "admitted" to" as part of a plea bargain with Mueller.

The author, by the way, is not a Forbes columnist--just a guy trying to promote his book. He's a former employee of the World Bank, so essentially part of the elite organizations that hate Trump's view of promoting his country's interests.


----------



## FeXL

So, having some difficulty understanding your point here.

Are you saying she shouldn't have been fired?
That it's a good thing she was?
That boycotts against Israel are a good thing?
That boycotts against Israel are a bad thing?
Something entirely different?



CubaMark said:


> Yup.
> 
> 'MURICA


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Yup.
> 
> Cuba.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.45ac05dc327f


:lmao: Again with the distraction from the issue at hand. And not even a distraction worthy of the effort:









From the article you linked (which otherwise was Nick Miroff telepathically receiving the "true" intentions of the millions of Cubans who paid tribute to Fidel, with all of the usual ****** reporting prowess when it come to that country... 

...for some Cubans, Castro’s death was deeply personal. He had imbued their lives with a sense of moral purpose, in exchange for their sacrifices and loyalty, they said.

“I was born under the Revolution. I was raised by the Revolution. I was trained by the Revolution,” said Wilson Vega, 51, a neurologist who lined up in his white doctor’s coat. “I am who I am because of Fidel Castro,” he said, his eyes welling with tears.

Vega’s parents were illiterate peasant farmers in the Sierra Maestra mountains where Castro waged guerrilla war until he seized power in January 1959. They adored Castro, and they sent their son to a boarding school for rural children founded by him and his revolutionary comrade Ernesto “Che” Guevara.

“If it wasn’t for Fidel, I’d probably be a poor farmer, too,” said Vega.​
So, *yeah, exactly like* a professional educator being blacklisted for her personal beliefs, all within the land of personal freedom, constitution, God and country... pass the ammunition, pray Jesus!

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Briefly scanned over it. So unless I am missing something that article is saying the hold Putin had/has over Trump is that he knows Trump wants to built a hotel in Moscow that needs Putins approval. Was expecting something bigger and more dastardly.



The article describes a number of lines of enquiry that the Mueller probe is using, one of which is Trump Hotel in Moscow. I found it to be pretty informative as an overview.


----------



## Macfury

Some oaths of loyalty are better than others, eh CM? :heybaby:



CubaMark said:


> :lmao: Again with the distraction from the issue at hand. And not even a distraction worthy of the effort:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the article you linked (which otherwise was Nick Miroff telepathically receiving the "true" intentions of the millions of Cubans who paid tribute to Fidel, with all of the usual ****** reporting prowess when it come to that country...
> 
> ...for some Cubans, Castro’s death was deeply personal. He had imbued their lives with a sense of moral purpose, in exchange for their sacrifices and loyalty, they said.
> 
> “I was born under the Revolution. I was raised by the Revolution. I was trained by the Revolution,” said Wilson Vega, 51, a neurologist who lined up in his white doctor’s coat. “I am who I am because of Fidel Castro,” he said, his eyes welling with tears.
> 
> Vega’s parents were illiterate peasant farmers in the Sierra Maestra mountains where Castro waged guerrilla war until he seized power in January 1959. They adored Castro, and they sent their son to a boarding school for rural children founded by him and his revolutionary comrade Ernesto “Che” Guevara.
> 
> “If it wasn’t for Fidel, I’d probably be a poor farmer, too,” said Vega.​
> So, *yeah, exactly like* a professional educator being blacklisted for her personal beliefs, all within the land of personal freedom, constitution, God and country... pass the ammunition, pray Jesus!
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: Again with the distraction from the issue at hand. And not even a distraction worthy of the effort:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the article you linked (which otherwise was Nick Miroff telepathically receiving the "true" intentions of the millions of Cubans who paid tribute to Fidel, with all of the usual ****** reporting prowess when it come to that country...
> 
> ...for some Cubans, Castro’s death was deeply personal. He had imbued their lives with a sense of moral purpose, in exchange for their sacrifices and loyalty, they said.
> 
> “I was born under the Revolution. I was raised by the Revolution. I was trained by the Revolution,” said Wilson Vega, 51, a neurologist who lined up in his white doctor’s coat. “I am who I am because of Fidel Castro,” he said, his eyes welling with tears.
> 
> Vega’s parents were illiterate peasant farmers in the Sierra Maestra mountains where Castro waged guerrilla war until he seized power in January 1959. They adored Castro, and they sent their son to a boarding school for rural children founded by him and his revolutionary comrade Ernesto “Che” Guevara.
> 
> “If it wasn’t for Fidel, I’d probably be a poor farmer, too,” said Vega.​
> So, *yeah, exactly like* a professional educator being blacklisted for her personal beliefs, all within the land of personal freedom, constitution, God and country... pass the ammunition, pray Jesus!
> 
> :lmao:


Unfortunately it is common practice in "higher" education. If you even think to question the current accepted stance on evolution you will be fired and black listed. Numerous professors Christian or not who have issue or see flaws with the thinking of current evolution have been canned. Of course that does not get anyone upset.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Unfortunately it is common practice in "higher" education. If you even think to question the current accepted stance on evolution you will be fired and black listed. Numerous professors Christian or not who have issue or see flaws with the thinking of current evolution have been canned. Of course that does not get anyone upset.


CM was quiet as a church mouse when Trudeau Jr. wanted employers to swear an oath of loyalty to abortion rights to qualify for summer job funding:

https://www.chatelaine.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-pro-choice/


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> CM was quiet as a church mouse when Trudeau Jr. wanted employers to swear an oath of loyalty to abortion rights to qualify for summer job funding:


'Course! That's an oath of fealty for a Prog cause. Those are not only acceptable, but encouraged!


----------



## FeXL

Clinton-Appointed Judge in Flynn Sentencing Hearing Accuses Him of Treason, Suggests He'll Sentence Him Beyond What the Plea Deal Calls for



> #TheResistance has a new hero.
> 
> The Clinton-appointed judge, Emmett Sullivan, claimed that Flynn's suggestion that the FBI misled him (which it, you know, did) cast doubt on Flynn's acceptance of culpability. The not-so-veiled threat from the judge is that if Flynn wouldn't repudiate his previous complaints about the FBI, he'd toss out the plea deal and sentence Flynn more harshly than the plea called for.
> 
> He also badgered both Flynn and the prosecutor about whether Flynn had committed "treason."
> 
> Though then, after he returned from a break, this Clinton appointee said he wanted to "clarify" that his own previous claim that Flynn was working in the White House when his contacts with foreigners occurred. I guess he bothered to read the actual facts and corrected himself -- well, "clarified" -- that Flynn wasn't in the White House and that he was now not "suggesting" treason.
> 
> Which is actually exactly what he did before.


Related:

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> _ "*It's completely a coincidence* we have two identical drafts at three different dates; not at all because we re-edited original version. Also, a coincidence we didn't record it, asked for no lawyer to be present, lost original handwritten notes & hide one of the agents involved." pic.twitter.com/0sAL2Nh9Ct
> 
> — Robert Barnes (@Barnes_Law) December 18, 2018_​


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

The Leftwing "Activist" Group That Mobbed and Menaced Florida AG Pam Bondi at a Movie Theater Was Financed by George Soros



> The Daily Caller's Peter Hasson is reporting this. I guess he didn't get the memo from the NeverTrumpers now seeking Alternative Funding that it's antisemitic to report on George Soros' funding of the hard left.
> 
> But he does fund the hard left, in case actual facts matter any longer.


----------



## FeXL

Ocasio-Cortez Takes ‘Self-Care’ Break, Complains About Missing Yoga Sessions



> Alexandria is taking a “well-needed” vaycay…before even beginning work?
> 
> Yes, she will fit right in with the other members of the House, who are all taking off three weeks for the holidays.
> 
> But it’s going to be tough to continue to portray herself as “working class” and “financially stressed” with her upcoming $174,000 salary, and $1.3M of taxpayer money for office rent and tech support.





> _“*For working people, immigrants, & the poor*, self-care is political — not because we want it to be, but bc of the inevitable shaming of someone doing a face mask while financially stressed. So I’ve decided to take others along with me on IG as I learn what self-care even means and why it’s important,” she added on Twitter…._​


Bold mine.

Can someone please explain to me exactly which of those categories she falls into?


----------



## Beej

Interesting point of view.

Donald Trump Is a Good President
One foreigner’s perspective
https://harpers.org/archive/2019/01/donald-trump-is-a-good-president/

I disagree with much of it, but like the casual clarity.

A couple notable quotes...


> In short, Europe is just a dumb idea that has gradually turned into a bad dream, from which we shall eventually wake up.





> Logically enough, President Trump was pleased about Brexit. Logically enough, so was I; my sole regret was that the British had once again shown themselves to be more courageous than us in the face of empire. The British get on my nerves, but their courage cannot be denied.





> You have to get used to the idea, worthy American people: in the final analysis, maybe Donald Trump will have been a necessary ordeal for you.


----------



## CubaMark

*U.S. defence secretary announces resignation one day after Trump announces withdrawal of troops from Syria*



*Putin hails U.S. withdrawal from Syria, warns nuclear war could destroy the planet*



*North Korea says it will not denuclearize unless US removes 'threat'*


----------



## Macfury

Pulling out of Syria is the right thing to do. Mattis should resign if he can't deal with that.


----------



## FeXL

I'm thinking the Dems just got religion...

Justice Ginsburg has surgery to remove cancerous growths



> Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had surgery Friday to remove two malignant growths in her left lung, the third time the Supreme Court’s oldest justice has been treated for cancer since 1999.
> 
> Doctors found “no evidence of any remaining disease” and scans taken before the surgery showed no cancerous growths elsewhere in her body, the court said in a statement . No additional treatment is currently planned, it said.
> 
> The 85-year-old Ginsburg is the leader of the court’s liberal wing. She has achieved an iconic status rare for Supreme Court justices, and is known as the Notorious RBG to some of her most ardent fans. In recent days, Ginsburg has basked in the warm applause of audiences that turned out for screenings of a new feature film about her life.
> 
> Her health is closely watched by liberals and conservatives alike. If she were to step down now, President Donald Trump would choose her replacement, and further shift the Supreme Court in a more conservative direction.


Related:

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, 85, undergoes lung procedure to remove cancerous growth



> The nine-member court is divided 5-4 among Republican and Democratic nominees. A sixth justice nominated by a Republican would further cement the bench's conservative majority, *with possible ramifications on a slew of contentious legal issues the top court may review in coming terms, including reproductive rights.*


Leave it to CNBC to throw in some good, ol' fashioned fear mongering...


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Pulling out of Syria is the right thing to do. Mattis should resign if he can't deal with that.


Every time the US gets close, somehow the White Helmets stage a false flag chemical attack, and blame it on Assad. Then for completely inexplicable reasons the president and the lamestream press takes it at face value despite the blindingly obvious fact that Assad has zero to gain and a lot to lose in staging such an attack.

Hope this time is different.


----------



## FeXL

Break Up Google For the Sake of National Security



> Kill the Beast.
> 
> _ The mainstream media, as the mindless propagandists of the deep state and Democratic Party, are still trying to maintain the miserable hoax of Russian collusion to cover up their own misdeeds and incompetence in the 2016 election. Yet they are willfully ignoring Google’' role. Google employees and executives were caught discussing in leaked emails their desire to boost turnout and manipulating information flow in the 2016 elections in order to hinder candidates they opposed and support others. This is more far-reaching and frightening than Russia taking out small ad buys on Facebook.
> 
> Google's method censoring certain beliefs isn’t something new to the corporation or merely drawn out by the passions of the 2016 contest. Though most Americans aren’t aware of it, Google has been cutting deals with foreign governments to censor and "cooperate" for years in order to make more money. Google cut deals with the German and French governments a decade ago to share information about far-right political parties and organizations with federal law enforcement._​


----------



## FeXL

Russia! Russia! Russia!



> _ A tech Billionaire, an Obama admin tech advisor, and an ex-Justice Department official conspired to manipulate big tech platforms to spread false flags & divide the Alabama electorate to help the Democrat win. https://t.co/8xqQZIVvSP
> 
> — Robert Barnes (@Barnes_Law) December 20, 2018_​
> *The New York Times story is infuriating in its efforts to downplay what happened here.* (Just hit the ‘esc’ key a few times as it loads to bypass the page blocker) This story would be front page, _hang-the-bastards_ international news had it been the Trump administration.


Bold mine.

Related:

Congressmen Pretend to be Fed Up With Mark Zuckerberg's Serial Misrepresentations to Congress



> Lot of posing for the cameras, but nothing will happen. Democrats want FaceBook and Google to keep on Colluding to Interfere in US Elections, and Republicans want the bribes they get from the industry.
> 
> _ Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg is in hot water with Congress following new revelations about his company's data-sharing practices, with some senators saying he may have misled Congress when he testified this year about protecting the privacy of users.
> 
> "Mr. Zuckerberg told us that this kind of nonsense would end and it didn’t," Sen. John Neely Kennedy (R-La.) said Wednesday. "Now the first time, you can argue it’s a mistake, but the second time, it’s a choice."
> 
> 
> * "Squaring his comments with the facts is very hard," said Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.).*_​


M'bold.

When even some Dems are beginning to pay attention...

Related, too:

#MuhPrivateSurveillanceMonopoly: FaceBook Permitted Its Monster Tech Partners Like Netflix and Amazon to _Read Your Personal Messages to Friends and Lovers_



> Whatever we do, we must protect an out-of-control hypercorporation's cherished right to ignore contractual promises made in terms of service agreements and invade you privacy at will.
> 
> Because hypercorporations have, as they must have, full immunity from any law.


More:



> _* Facebook let tons of companies get info about you, including Amazon, Netflix, and Microsoft*
> 
> PUBLISHED WED, DEC 19 2018
> 
> * Facebook said in a blog post Wednesday it allowed other big tech companies to read users' private messages, but denies it did so without consent.
> 
> The post came in response to a New York Times investigation published Tuesday that said Facebook granted tech companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Netflix and Spotify special access to users' personal data including private messages and contact details.
> 
> Facebook said it enabled partner companies like Spotify to access users' private messages after a user had signed into Facebook through the partner company’s app.*
> 
> Facebook has admitted it allowed other big tech companies to read users' private messages, *but denies it did so without consent.*_​


Links' bold.

Related, three:

Break Them Up



> Into a hundred thousand million pieces.
> 
> _ Back in 2015, a woman named Imy Santiago wrote an Amazon review of a novel that she had read and liked. Amazon immediately took the review down and told Santiago she had “violated its policies.” Santiago re-read her review, didn’t see anything objectionable about it, so she tried to post it again. “You’re not eligible to review this product,” an Amazon prompt informed her.
> 
> When she wrote to Amazon about it, the company told her that her “account activity indicates you know the author personally.” Santiago did not know the author, so she wrote an angry email to Amazon and blogged about Amazon’s “big brother” surveillance.
> 
> I reached out to both Santiago and Amazon at the time to try to figure out what the hell happened here. Santiago, who is an indie book writer herself, told me that she’d been in the same ballroom with the author in New York a few months before at a book signing event, but had not talked to her, and that she had followed the author on Twitter and Facebook after reading her books. Santiago had never connected her Facebook account to Amazon, she said. _​


----------



## FeXL

Super-Conservative Jeff Flake, Who Represents All That is Good and True in the GOP-in-Exile, to Introduce Carbon Tax Bill With Liberal Senator Chris *****



> Weird, isn't it, that so many NeverTrumpers turn out to have fairly leftwing positions on major issues, once they feel free to tell the truth, and yet are always insisting they're the Most Severely Conservative Conservatators around?
> 
> _ Sens. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., and Chris *****, D-Del., are preparing as soon as Wednesday to introduce a carbon tax bill to combat climate change, just days before the end of the current session of Congress.
> 
> The bill is similar to bipartisan legislation introduced in the House last month that would tax carbon emissions and return the proceeds to American households as a dividend._​


Ah. More kool-aid drinkers. Not only on Globull Warming but returning carbon taxes to households.

Why not just leave them there *in the first GD place*?


----------



## Macfury

Chicken Liver Flake can't leave soon enough for me. Thank goodness Trump will just veto this. 



FeXL said:


> Super-Conservative Jeff Flake, Who Represents All That is Good and True in the GOP-in-Exile, to Introduce Carbon Tax Bill With Liberal Senator Chris *****
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. More kool-aid drinkers. Not only on Globull Warming but returning carbon taxes to households.
> 
> Why not just leave them there *in the first GD place*?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

I think we should let your lack of any normal or decent knowledge of current events sink in instead:

https://www.citymetric.com/politics...-has-corroded-residents-trust-government-3895

Do you even know which idiot created that meme, or are you just copying it at random?


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> I think we should let your lack of any normal or decent knowledge of current events sink in instead:
> 
> https://www.citymetric.com/politics...-has-corroded-residents-trust-government-3895
> 
> Do you even know which idiot created that meme, or are you just copying it at random?


Never let the facts get in the way of a supposedly correct meme.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


>


and people spend BILLIONS on sweaters and other such novelties for pets.


----------



## Macfury

Ask Freddie how much he sent to Flint to get its water system fixed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Ask Freddie how much he sent to Flint to get its water system fixed.




Again, you completely miss the point. Whooosh indeed.


----------



## Macfury

You gave neither to the Flint water system OR the wall, and you're sitting on the sidelines complaining about what other people do with their money.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, you completely miss the point. Whooosh indeed.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Ask Freddie how much he sent to Flint to get its water system fixed.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, you completely miss the point. Whooosh indeed.





Macfury said:


> You gave neither to the Flint water system OR the wall, and you're sitting on the sidelines complaining about what other people do with their money.


Perhaps a more relevant question is: How much has Freddie given to nearby Indian Reserves, to help them get clean drinking water?


----------



## FeXL

What I'd like to see Freddie defend is his silence on other major US gov't expenditures over the past few years:

The Government Lost Billions More Bailing Out GM Than The $5.7 Billion Request For Wall Funding



> Senate Democrats have shown their willingness to shut down the government in lieu of spending nearly $6 billion on a border wall, but compare that price tag to some of the other expenditures the government funds.


More:



> The Environmental and Protection Agency (EPA) was appropriated a $5.7 billion budget in 2018, down from the roughly $8 billion annual budget it has received since the mid-1990s. Inline with the agency’s mission statement, nearly 90 percent of the budget is used to provide grants safeguarding clear air, land and water, according to National Geographic.


Hey, Freddie, how come, with a $5.7 billion budget, Flint still doesn't have good drinking water? Even though this issue is a hangover from Jug Ears?

Further:



> In 2017, the federal government spent more than twice as much on farms as the requested border wall funding. During the fiscal year, U.S. farms received $13.2 billion in subsidies, according to transparency group Open The Books. Nearly 15 percent of those subsidies went to farmers in exchange for not using their land.
> 
> The government also footed the bill for nearly half of the country’s most expensive infrastructure project, which was concentrated in one city alone. After the ‘Big Dig’, a megaproject that rerouted Boston’s primary thoroughfare, was plagued by financial mismanagement and design flaws, the Federal Highway Administration stepped in and provided what amounted to about $7 billion in grants, reported The Boston Globe.
> 
> ...
> 
> According to a 2014 Special Inspector General report, American taxpayers took an $11.2 billion loss on its bailout of General Motors (GM). After the automaker declared bankruptcy in 2009, the government invested $49.5 billion in the company with a 61 percent equity share.


Where was your hue & cry about gov't spending the, Freddie?


----------



## FeXL

So, those of you who were remarking on what a terrible thing it was that Mattis was leaving Trump's cabinet, where were your cries of outrage when, during his term, Barry fired Mattis?

Did the Media Care When Obama Fired General Mattis?



> Democrats who won't defend our southern border and who slept as Obama drew red lines with vanishing ink worry about an ISIS Obama created by a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq regaining strength and reforming in Syria and Iraq. *The general Obama fired is suddenly a man of principle whose leadership was indispensable*:
> 
> _ House Speaker-designate Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said she was "shaken and "concerned". "General Mattis was a comfort to many who were concerned about the path the Trump Admin would choose to take. His resignation letter is defined by statements of principle – principles that drove him to leave the Administration. All of us should be concerned at this time."_​
> *There was no such concern when Obama relieved Mattis as commander of CENTCOM without so much as a phone call, a factoid typical of Obama's disdain for the military, its missions, and its heroes.*


Bold mine.

Jes' askin'...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

What did Stormy Daniels do, Freddie?

And yes, we've given control of our resources to leftist psychopath governments. Only an NDP government could create scarcity in oil-rich Alberta.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

How to save $38 billion. Merry Christmas!


----------



## SINC

The amount of crap dragged into this thread from Facebook is indicative of the quality of the memes showing up here. Just an observation of the source.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Merry Christmas, Don. And try to find some happiness, eh?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Who is Gavin Nascimento?


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Who is Gavin Nascimento?


You're asking too many difficult questions.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, find me a source on that Trump quote. I don't believe he ever said such a thing in exactly this way.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Freddie, find me a source on that Trump quote. I don't believe he ever said such a thing in exactly this way.


Looks like he did a screen shot of an Anonymous post from Facebook. Can't imagine him bothering to verify it, but he can feel free to prove me wrong.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Who is Gavin Nascimento?




Ummm, let me Google that for you. 

 http://ascendbodymind.com/bp1/2017/2/20/ap-70-spiritual-warfare-gavin-nascimento


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, find me a source on that Trump quote. I don't believe he ever said such a thing in exactly this way.




Here, let me Google that for you. 

 https://www.politifact.com/faceboo...ump-criticize-obama-during-2013-government-s/

Let’s call it half-true. Truish.


----------



## Macfury

The actual quote:


> "When they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president."





Freddie_Biff said:


> Here, let me Google that for you.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/faceboo...ump-criticize-obama-during-2013-government-s/
> 
> Let’s call it half-true. Truish.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

More on President Bonespurs. 










https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/dau...p-bone-spurs-vietnam-war-favor-134618527.html


----------



## Macfury

Here we go again. Nice sleuthing Dr. Brainspurs:



> ..._they are unsure whether their dad actually examined_ the then 22-year-old Donald Trump...





> The doctor also gave them _the impression_ that Trump didn’t actually have bone spurs, but he said otherwise to help keep him out of the draft, they say.





Freddie_Biff said:


> More on President Bonespurs.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Here we go again. Nice sleuthing Dr. Brainspurs:




Your attempts to defend the “honour” of Donald Trump at all costs are kind of pathetic. But hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Macfury

There are plenty of reasons to criticize any president... however, I won't allow your intellectually vacant, lazy-ass attacks to go unchallenged.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your attempts to defend the “honour” of Donald Trump at all costs are kind of pathetic. But hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> There are plenty of reasons to criticize any president... however, I won't allow your intellectually vacant, lazy-ass attacks to go unchallenged.


B...bu...bbb...but...Freddie is a _progressive thinker_!!! Can't you tell?


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm, let me Google that for you.
> 
> AP 70 - Spiritual Warfare - Gavin Nascimento — ASCEND


So a weirdo with a podcast?

Not sure there's any weight to what this guy is spouting.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> So a weirdo with a podcast?
> 
> Not sure there's any weight to what this guy is spouting.


The weight is added by the pastoral photo used to assemble the meme.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> There are plenty of reasons to criticize any president... however, I won't allow your intellectually vacant, lazy-ass attacks to go unchallenged.


Ya come on Freddie. The Donald had an ouchy in his footy. I am sure he legitimately had this problem for a short, but convenient time enough to miss action in Vietnam. No one helped him figure out the lowest bar that can be met with which to be exempted from service on medical grounds. No medical professional for sure was involved. He really wanted to go over there and fight! It was very sad time but absolutely nothing could be done. 

In other news he really wants to share his tax returns but you know those pesky accountants won't let him because he's been in an audit for 20 years or whatever. Again the Donald trying to do what's right and to no fault of his own, it's just not possible.


----------



## smashedbanana




----------



## Macfury

It's clear now how much the Vietnam war means to you, smashedbanana!



smashedbanana said:


> Ya come on Freddie. The Donald had an ouchy in his footy. I am sure he legitimately had this problem for a short, but convenient time enough to miss action in Vietnam. No one helped him figure out the lowest bar that can be met with which to be exempted from service on medical grounds. No medical professional for sure was involved. He really wanted to go over there and fight! It was very sad time but absolutely nothing could be done.
> 
> In other news he really wants to share his tax returns but you know those pesky accountants won't let him because he's been in an audit for 20 years or whatever. Again the Donald trying to do what's right and to no fault of his own, it's just not possible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Ya come on Freddie. The Donald had an ouchy in his footy. I am sure he legitimately had this problem for a short, but convenient time enough to miss action in Vietnam. No one helped him figure out the lowest bar that can be met with which to be exempted from service on medical grounds. No medical professional for sure was involved. He really wanted to go over there and fight! It was very sad time but absolutely nothing could be done.
> 
> 
> 
> In other news he really wants to share his tax returns but you know those pesky accountants won't let him because he's been in an audit for 20 years or whatever. Again the Donald trying to do what's right and to no fault of his own, it's just not possible.




It’s hard work being a President. Thank god there’s golf to break it up. And thank god even more that his bone spurs never bother him when he plays golf.


----------



## FeXL

So, lemme get this straight...

The only criticism of Trump you can muster is some goofy story about bone spurs decades ago? Is that the thrust here?

Freddie, you still got nuttin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s hard work being a President. Thank god there’s golf to break it up. And thank god even more that his bone spurs never bother him when he plays golf.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, lemme get this straight...
> 
> 
> 
> The only criticism of Trump you can muster is some goofy story about bone spurs decades ago? Is that the thrust here?
> 
> 
> 
> Freddie, you still got nuttin'...




Only? Hardly. Just the most current one that’s crossed my desk. 

And that’s a pretty weak rebuttal you have for your hero.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, ya still got nuttin'...

If you truly did have legitimate criticism of Trump, his bone spurs would be dead last on the list. The fact that you mention a 50 year old issue first tells everyone precisely what you got: Nuttin'!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Only? Hardly. Just the most current one that’s crossed my desk.
> 
> And that’s a pretty weak rebuttal you have for your hero.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Freddie, ya still got nuttin'...
> 
> If you truly did have legitimate criticism of Trump, his bone spurs would be dead last on the list. The fact that you mention a 50 year old issue first tells everyone precisely what you got: Nuttin'!


I love the fact that Freddie says the news "crossed my desk" instead of Dr. Brainspurs dog-sniffing the ass end of the news pile.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, ya still got nuttin'...
> 
> 
> 
> If you truly did have legitimate criticism of Trump, his bone spurs would be dead last on the list. The fact that you mention a 50 year old issue first tells everyone precisely what you got: Nuttin'!




You should really learn how to spell. And your hero is an idiot.


----------



## Macfury

And your hero Notley is leading en economic renaissance in Alberta!



Freddie_Biff said:


> And your hero is an idiot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Poor Donald. Why won’t the Dems even try to get him his border wall? Oh right; they don’t have to. Plus, wasn’t Mexico supposed to pay for that wall anyway? Luke Skywalker sets him straight. 



> Three days into the third government shutdown of his presidency, President Donald Trump is melting down on Twitter and Mark Hamill offered a suggestion on how Trump can turn his misery into something productive.
> 
> On Monday morning, Trump whined about being alone and once again blamed Democrats for the shutdown despite having claimed proud ownership over it two weeks ago.
> 
> “I am all alone (poor me) in the White House waiting for the Democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security,” wrote the president. “At some point the Democrats not wanting to make a deal will cost our Country more money than the Border Wall we are all talking about. Crazy!”
> 
> As Trump sulks and points fingers, Hamill reminded him that he promised the American people a Mexico-funded border wall and that if all else fails, “poor me” could be his 2020 reelection slogan.
> 
> “Bad News: You repeatedly promised American taxpayers a FREE wall that would cost our country NOTHING, because MEXICO would pay for it! Remember? (It’s on film if you need to refresh your memory),” Hamill tweeted. “The Good News is: I think you just found your 2020 Campaign Slogan: #PoorMe!”
> 
> Hamill nailed it.


 https://secondnexus.com/news/mark-hamill-tweets-donald-trump-poor-me/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

That's what happens when you defer to the intellect of Mark Hamill, Dr. Brainspurs. The wall will not be pre-funded by Mexico, it will be paid for by Mexico.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's what happens when you defer to the intellect of Mark Hamill, Dr. Brainspurs. The wall will not be pre-funded by Mexico, it will be paid for by Mexico.




Mm-hmm. How exactly? How will Emperor Trump get Mexico to pay for a wall they never agreed to? I suppose you believe his bankruptcies don’t exist either. Goddamned fairy tales is what you got.


----------



## FeXL

Better'n nuttin'... :lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Goddamned fairy tales is what you got.


----------



## FeXL

Democrats Created Fake "Russian Bots" to Help Doug Jones Win the Alabama Special Election Against Roy Moore



> False flag. For real.
> 
> _ As Russia's online election machinations came to light last year, a group of Democratic tech experts decided to try out similarly deceptive tactics in the fiercely contested Alabama Senate race, according to people familiar with the effort and a report on its results.
> 
> The secret project, carried out on Facebook and Twitter, was likely too small to have a significant effect on the race, in which the Democratic candidate it was designed to help, Doug Jones, edged out the Republican, Roy S. Moore._​
> Note they immediately claim it was too small to impact the race -- and yet they've been claiming for two years that a hundred thousand or so dollars spent on FaceBook ads in the five billion dollar plus 2016 Presidential race was nigh decisive and an assault on our very democracy.
> 
> But this $100,000? Pish-posh. 'Tis nothing.


----------



## FeXL

Russia! Russia! Russia!



> _ Look at this. Jonathan Morgan not only launched fake "Russian" botnet, but, in case nobody noticed, was arsonist yelling "Fire". Anti-free speech #Hamilton68 piled on, also promoting the fraud. pic.twitter.com/j9sw8aQ8gK
> 
> — Stephen McIntyre (@ClimateAudit) December 23, 2018_​


----------



## FeXL

Tell ya what, Freddie. I'll change my spelling when you learn how to math.

Deal?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You should really learn how to spell.


----------



## FeXL

Nothing to See Here: After Mueller Was Forced to Fire Lisa Page and Peter Strzok for Scheming To Cook Up an "Insurance Policy," He Seized Their Phones and... Deleted All Messages and Gave Them to Other FBI Agents To Use, Instead of Preserving Them As E



> I'm sure it was just an oversight.
> 
> *This is deliberate destruction of evidence -- of the same sort that this crew gave Hillary Clinton a pass on.*
> 
> Someone should go to jail in this matter. But it's not Trump.
> 
> By the way: This comes from the Inspector General's report.
> 
> _ Short version: Mueller’s Office scrubbed clean both Strzok and Page’s phones. Reset to factory settings. SCO also didn’t know who handled Page’s device after she left in July 2017. SCO records officer said she doesn’t recall whether there were ANY texts on Strzok’s phone... https://t.co/xl2zOdtrkr
> — Julie Kelly (@julie_kelly2) December 13, 2018_​


Bold mine.


----------



## Beej

Am I to take from this that the store's employee is not a Trump supporter?

[ame]https://youtu.be/PK-mnbH4s74[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Only an idiot could devise a meme so devoid of understanding. Closing the border would mean closing it to goods and services and immigration through _legal_ crossing points. Stop being such a lazy ass Freddie, and do your own thinking!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Only an idiot could devise a meme so devoid of understanding. Closing the border would mean closing it to goods and services and immigration through _legal_ crossing points. Stop being such a lazy ass Freddie, and do your own thinking!




That’s a lot of insults in one post for a supposedly “civil” ehMac contributor. “Idiot” and “lazy ass” all at the same time. Why don’t you contribute something instead of just commenting on others’ efforts? Talk about lazy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

S’more about that wall, posted by Smapti in the Straight Dope: 



Smapti said:


> Really, it's Schrodinger's Wall at this point. It hasn't been built yet, but it's mostly finished; it's both a Concrete Wall and a Steel Slat Barrier; Mexico will pay for it, Mexico has already paid for it, it's paying for itself with NAFTA which has now been repealed, the Democrats must pay for it, it'll be paid for with "Shutdown Money" saved from the shutdown that's more expensive than the Wall will ever be, which is supported by federal workers who are mostly Democrats but also want Trump to keep it shut down until the Wall is paid for; it's needed to stop the Caravans that have already been stopped, and there are no more Caravans coming even though word is there's one on the way right now; and if there's no wall, we're going to have to shut down the entire border with the wall that does not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> The Wall currently exists in a state of quantum flux where attempting to observe it only changes its nature.


----------



## Macfury

Why don't you curate what you're "contributing"?

And I didn't call you an idiot. Only the idiot who created the meme. Unless you created it...?



Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s a lot of insults in one post for a supposedly “civil” ehMac contributor. “Idiot” and “lazy ass” all at the same time. Why don’t you contribute something instead of just commenting on others’ efforts? Talk about lazy.


----------



## Macfury

Isn't the Straight Dope that place where you said people treat everyone with great respect?



Freddie_Biff said:


> S’more about that wall, posted by Smapti in the Straight Dope:


----------



## FeXL

Why don't you contribute something, Freddie, that can't be dismembered by a 12 year old?

"Mock the Right"? With what? You're going to need better ammo than that. Tell us you didn't truly think that crap meme was anywhere near the truth...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why don’t you contribute something instead of just commenting on others’ efforts?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Why don't you contribute something, Freddie, that can't be dismembered by a 12 year old?
> 
> "Mock the Right"? With what? You're going to need better ammo than that. Tell us you didn't truly think that crap meme was anywhere near the truth...


I've heard that for Progressives, it isn't about thinking, it's about feeling. If you feel you've contributed, you deserve a cookie and a pat on the back.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Waldorf and Statler, at it again.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Why don't you contribute something, Freddie, that can't be dismembered by a 12 year old?
> 
> 
> 
> "Mock the Right"? With what? You're going to need better ammo than that. Tell us you didn't truly think that crap meme was anywhere near the truth...




Perhaps you can explain why a wall is so necessary. And since Macfury couldn’t do it, how Trump is going to get Mexico to pay for it. That is what he campaigned on, you’ll recall.


----------



## Macfury

Because you have already forgotten the explanation, nobody can explain it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you can explain why a wall is so necessary. And since Macfury couldn’t do it, how Trump is going to get Mexico to pay for it. That is what he campaigned on, you’ll recall.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> S’more about that wall, posted by Smapti in the Straight Dope:


Was just curious how that "sniveling, spineless piece of sh**," Smapti is received on that bastion of civility, The Straight Dope. Warning, coarse language:


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry. Is this a response to me asking you to put some meat into an argument & not unicorn farts & pixie dust?

Go back & try harder.

And, if you don't already know why a wall makes sense from at least three important directions, no explanation is possible.

As to the rest of it, why don't you ask Trump? I'm no mind reader. It was his promise, after all.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you can explain why a wall is so necessary. And since Macfury couldn’t do it, how Trump is going to get Mexico to pay for it. That is what he campaigned on, you’ll recall.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I've heard that for Progressives, it isn't about thinking, it's about feeling. If you feel you've contributed, you deserve a cookie and a pat on the back.


Well, I'm fresh out of participation cookies...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> As to the rest of it, why don't you ask Trump? I'm no mind reader. It was his promise, after all.


Hey, FeXL, how is Notley going to dig Alberta out of the bottomless pit of debt she created?


----------



## CubaMark

Trump Logic.


----------



## CubaMark

"Save Coast Guard Pay" - but if a Democrat President had done this, it would be "Leaving America's Coasts Undefended!" :lmao:

Shutting the Government down during the holidays means untold thousands of federal employee families without a paycheque until he gets over his tantrum. But of course, they're all government workers, _akin to bloodsucking parasites_ in the mind of the right-wing, and thus not worthy of consideration. :roll eyes:


----------



## CubaMark

Do you guys want to get your prejudiced jabs about native american heritage in now, all up front, so that some actual discussion of policy might have space to flourish in 2019?

*Progressive Democrat Elizabeth Warren Announces She Is Running for US President*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Trump Logic.




Schumer Shutdown? WTF? Trump was bragging about how he would own the shutdown.


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> Do you guys want to get your prejudiced jabs about native american heritage in now, all up front, so that some actual discussion of policy might have space to flourish in 2019?
> 
> *Progressive Democrat Elizabeth Warren Announces She Is Running for US President*


I have no issues with her heritage in any manner. It's a non-starter with me.

The more important question for me is, "Are the American people ready to elect a female president of any stripe?"

I suspect the answer to that question is a hesitant, 'not yet'. 

That would, of course, mean another four years of Trump and that would be a shame. The Dems would do better with a very strong male candidate who was smart, articulate and high profile to unseat a sitting president if he is not impeached first. If impeachment does take place, it might then help the chances of a female president being elected.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Hey, FeXL, how is Notley going to dig Alberta out of the bottomless pit of debt she created?


<snort...>


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry. I must have missed your hue & cry when the Prog presidents shut down the gov't...



CubaMark said:


> Shutting the Government down during the holidays means untold thousands of federal employee families without a paycheque until he gets over his tantrum.


----------



## Rps

The U.S. has “shut down” before. And, while the “hue and cry” is on, the reality is 75% of the U.S. government is funded and operational. The areas left unfunded will cause problems for many...the fact is landlords, mortgage holders etc have had a tolerance in the past and will probably do so in the future. Look for the Dems to pass a funding package....sans Wall money.... on Wednesday or so. The fact is the U.S. has allocated $1.7 billion for border security and so far only about 6% has been spent......so not sure if the coverage is a molehill out of a mountain or a mountain out of a molehill.


----------



## FeXL

Once again, you're off the mark by a country mile.

First off, Fauxcahontas has been made fun of because she claimed First Immigrants ancestry (a whole 1/32!) in order to further her career.

Second, when she finally did get her DNA test done, it ended up what, 1/1024? Most Americans have a higher percentage. What a joke.

Third, if she can't even get her own heritage correct (or outright lied about it), how the hell can she be trusted with actual policy?

Fourth, is she some how above reproach? If Trump or Harper had made the identical claim & subsequently proven wrong, the Progs would still be dogging them.



CubaMark said:


> Do you guys want to get your prejudiced jabs about native american heritage in now, all up front, so that some actual discussion of policy might have space to flourish in 2019?


Related:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

You sure rely a lot on memes for a guy who is so critical of them. Oh the iron...


----------



## Macfury

Warren is done before she starts. Fauxchontas just makes it worse.



CubaMark said:


> Do you guys want to get your prejudiced jabs about native american heritage in now, all up front, so that some actual discussion of policy might have space to flourish in 2019?
> 
> *Progressive Democrat Elizabeth Warren Announces She Is Running for US President*


----------



## FeXL

This coming from the guy who can't tell a meme from a Charlie Foxtrot...

'Sides, I'll put my meme count (& quality!) up against yours any day of the week & twice on Sundays.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure rely a lot on memes for a guy who is so critical of them. Oh the iron...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> This coming from the guy who can't tell a meme from a Charlie Foxtrot...
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sides, I'll put my meme count (& quality!) up against yours any day of the week & twice on Sundays.




Happy New Year, FeXL.


----------



## FeXL

Why is is that the most vociferous of the left on a southern wall are also the ones most likely to have a wall around their mansions?

Hah! Trump Calls Out Obamas on Their Walled Mansion – “The US Needs the Same Thing, Slightly Larger Version”



> Democrats love to lecture on the morality of walls — But they ALL have big walls around their huge mansions.


Related:


----------



## FeXL

It just slays me to watch these Prog elites try to act like common folk...

Liz On The War Path Campaign Trail



> Seeing Hillary has already used the "Stand By Your Man" meme and cookie baking what is a 'poor socialist' woman to do?
> 
> Well, in this instance if you're a fake Indian why not guzzle beer and cook for your man?


<snort...>


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Why is is that the most vociferous of the left on a southern wall are also the ones most likely to have a wall around their mansions?
> 
> 
> 
> Hah! Trump Calls Out Obamas on Their Walled Mansion – “The US Needs the Same Thing, Slightly Larger Version”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:




Mm-hmm. And have you actually seen pictures of the Obama’s “ten foot wall” as Trump calls it around their property? Before you go “slagging the progs” again you should do some research.

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wa...ound-obamas-dc-home-neighbors-say-theres-not/


----------



## Macfury

Good post, Freddie!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Good post, Freddie!




Meets your specs, does it?


----------



## Macfury

Yes it does!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Meets your specs, does it?


----------



## FeXL

Awrite, let's take this in order:

1) Freddie, why are you reading my posts? You've claimed time after time that all I post is boring stuff. Are you stalking me? You're always the first to respond to them.

2) If you truly want me to click on a link, don't hang Gaggle in there anywhere. Why are you still using them, BTW?

3) Nope, I haven't seen their wall. 'Cause it doesn't matter if the wall is a foot high or 10 feet high, it's still a wall.

4) And, _and_, it doesn't matter one whit if Barry has a wall around his shack or not, as I pointed out in the accompanying meme, many of the loudest voices against a southern wall do. Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees, Freddie.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Mm-hmm. And have you actually seen pictures of the Obama’s “ten foot wall” as Trump calls it around their property? Before you go “slagging the progs” again you should do some research.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Awrite, let's take this in order:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Freddie, why are you reading my posts? You've claimed time after time that all I post is boring stuff. Are you stalking me? You're always the first to respond to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) If you truly want me to click on a link, don't hang Gaggle in there anywhere. Why are you still using them, BTW?
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Nope, I haven't seen their wall. 'Cause it doesn't matter if the wall is a foot high or 10 feet high, it's still a wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 4) And, _and_, it doesn't matter one whit if Barry has a wall around his shack or not, as I pointed out in the accompanying meme, many of the loudest voices against a southern wall do. Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees, Freddie.




Boy, you can’t stand it when you’re wrong. Also, a four foot fence is NOT a wall. Of course, you would know that if you had actually done any research. And yes, the Obamas WERE your point.


----------



## FeXL

Prog walls are the point Freddie.

Always have been. Always will be.



Freddie_Biff said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> 3) Nope, I haven't seen their wall. 'Cause it doesn't matter if the wall is a foot high or 10 feet high, it's still a wall.


If that's the case then what is Trump going on about? Bush built a fence (Sorry Wall? I guess) with the Secure Fence (Wall?) Act of 2006 on the southern border.

Problem solved I guess.


----------



## Macfury

It was for 652 miles only.



smashedbanana said:


> If that's the case then what is Trump going on about? Bush built a fence (Sorry Wall? I guess) with the Secure Fence (Wall?) Act of 2006 on the southern border.
> 
> Problem solved I guess.


----------



## FeXL

I was making the point that many Progs surround themselves with walls to keep undesirable people out, all the while condemning those of us who think one should be built along the Mexican border for the self-same reasons. It doesn't matter if the Prog mansion wall is a foot high or not. It's the principle: the wall presents a barrier that should not be crossed without permission.



smashedbanana said:


> If that's the case then what is Trump going on about? Bush built a fence (Sorry Wall? I guess) with the Secure Fence (Wall?) Act of 2006 on the southern border.
> 
> Problem solved I guess.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> I was making the point that many Progs surround themselves with walls to keep undesirable people out, all the while condemning those of us who think one should be built along the Mexican border for the self-same reasons. It doesn't matter if the Prog mansion wall is a foot high or not. It's the principle: the wall presents a barrier that should not be crossed without permission.



Sure if the only argument against building the wall is effectiveness of deterrence.

There is a large issue here of cost.


----------



## Macfury

The $5 billion Trump is asking for is a rounding error on the overblown US budget. It's a hill that Democrats are choosing to die on (Schumer: no money for a wall, _ever_), because any kind of increased border security is not seen as a win for their constituency.



smashedbanana said:


> Sure if the only argument against building the wall is effectiveness of deterrence.
> 
> There is a large issue here of cost.


----------



## FeXL

Have you weighed the cost of the wall vs the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration? I've read numbers in numerous reports that make the $5 billion cost of wall construction a pittance by comparison.



smashedbanana said:


> Sure if the only argument against building the wall is effectiveness of deterrence.
> 
> There is a large issue here of cost.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Have you weighed the cost of the wall vs the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration? I've read numbers in numerous reports that make the $5 billion cost of wall construction a pittance by comparison.


If you believe the wall is going to cost $5 Billion then I have a bridge to sell you.

And the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration is up for debate. There are many studies that show illegal immigration benefits the US economy more than it costs.


----------



## Dr.G.

smashedbanana said:


> If you believe the wall is going to cost $5 Billion then I have a bridge to sell you.
> 
> And the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration is up for debate. There are many studies that show illegal immigration benefits the US economy more than it costs.


I have a bridge for sale as well. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

If you have any facts to the contrary I'd be more than happy to read them. I haven't seen any estimates from the Progs showing otherwise. That's usually a sign the number ain't that far off.



smashedbanana said:


> If you believe the wall is going to cost $5 Billion then I have a bridge to sell you.


Prepared by whom? The UN? <snort>



smashedbanana said:


> And the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration is up for debate. There are many studies that show illegal immigration benefits the US economy more than it costs.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> If you believe the wall is going to cost $5 Billion then I have a bridge to sell you.


$5 billion would be spent, regardless of the actual costs. But again, the actual number is a drop in the US budget bucket. The idea of a wall itself seems to alarm open-border globalists.



smashedbanana said:


> IThere are many studies that show illegal immigration benefits the US economy more than it costs.


As FeXL says, start bringing out these proofs. Illegal immigration certainly depresses the wages of American citizens, and that could be said to be "good for businesses" who hire people.


----------



## SINC

And so it begins:

*Dem lawmaker to introduce articles of impeachment against Trump on first day of new Congress*

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/...les-of-impeachment-against-trump-on-first-day


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> $5 billion would be spent, regardless of the actual costs. But again, the actual number is a drop in the US budget bucket. The idea of a wall itself seems to alarm open-border globalists.


Well, it's certainly not the money nor the amount itself. The US just gave Central America & Mexico more than double that & nary a squeak from the Progs.


----------



## FeXL

<Snort>

Related:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

For a guy so critical of memes and political cartoons, you sure use a lot of them. I guess they must agree with your confirmation basis, so it’s okay.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So I suppose you kids are going to argue next that it’s really the Dems who are responsible for the government shutdown.


----------



## Macfury

They are both responsible for the shutdown (which is no big thing anyway) but Trump holds the high ground.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So I suppose you kids are going to argue next that it’s really the Dems who are responsible for the government shutdown.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> They are both responsible for the shutdown (which is no big thing anyway) but Trump holds the high ground.


:lmao::lmao:

The image of someone neck deep in the swamp being on the high ground is absolutely delicious. OTOH it's also a bit sad as it is indeed true.


----------



## FeXL

Quote the precise text of me being critical of anyone posting political cartoons. Be specific.

As to memes, I'm critical of people:
1) who use them as a sole means of communication and
2) post memes that are inaccurate or outright wrong.

Both of the above are not news to anybody on these boards & both apply to you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> For a guy so critical of memes and political cartoons, you sure use a lot of them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They are both responsible for the shutdown (which is no big thing anyway) but Trump holds the high ground.




How do you possibly figure Trump holds the high ground??


----------



## Macfury

Because his request for wall funding is perfectly legal, reasonable and part of the protection of borders for which the federal government is responsible. The Democrats' new pardigm that any and wall funding is "immoral" places them in a bizarre position where they are choosing active support of illegal immigration over the end of the government shutdown.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How do you possibly figure Trump holds the high ground??


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Because his request for wall funding is perfectly legal, reasonable and part of the protection of borders for which the federal government is responsible. The Democrats' new pardigm that any and wall funding is "immoral" places them in a bizarre position where they are choosing active support of illegal immigration over the end of the government shutdown.




The wall will do nothing to prevent illegal immigration, and it will do nothing to enable it either. There’s already a fence in place—good enough. Any further expenditure apart from repair and maintenance is wasteful. Besides, Trump doesn’t even know what he wants. Last I heard, he was endorsing a steel fence, just a variation on what’s already there. And he said he would be responsible for this shutdown, said it on national TV for everyone to hear. If the government is shut down he has no one to blame but himself, try as he might to change the story in his Twitter ramblings.


----------



## Macfury

He said he would take responsibility for shutting the government down--if the Dems failed him on this simple request. He said so deliberately on national TV, putting recalcitrant Schumer and Pelosi on notice and framing the battle for the American people

Fenced areas have done very well in cutting down on illegal immigration. But note that the debate isn't over effectiveness (or cost really). The Democrats are fighting this on the likelihood that it _will _work: That it is "immoral" to stop illegal immigration.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The wall will do nothing to prevent illegal immigration, and it will do nothing to enable it either. There’s already a fence in place—good enough. Any further expenditure apart from repair and maintenance is wasteful. Besides, Trump doesn’t even know what he wants. Last I heard, he was endorsing a steel fence, just a variation on what’s already there. And he said he would be responsible for this shutdown, said it on national TV for everyone to hear. If the government is shut down he has no one to blame but himself, try as he might to change the story in his Twitter ramblings.


----------



## Macfury

See why Trump promised Pelosi all of the votes she would need to overcome an internal revolt:

Confused Pelosi botches Speaker speech: "I think I skipped a couple of pages. I'm not sure" - The American Mirror





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Not sure if she is suffering from substance abuse or senility but her public appearances are increasingly marked by these sorts of confusing episodes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/423761-pelosi-the-constitution-considers-me-equal-to-trump


----------



## FeXL

Why does it take a lawsuit to force a state gov't to conduct what it is required by law to do on its own?

(Don't bother, it's a rhetorical question.)

California and Los Angeles County to Remove 1.5 Million Inactive Voters from Voter Rolls – Settle Judicial Watch Federal Lawsuit



> Judicial Watch announced today that it signed a settlement agreement with the State of California and County of Los Angeles under which they will begin the process of *removing from their voter registration rolls as many as 1.5 million inactive registered names that may be invalid*. These removals are required by the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA).
> 
> The NVRA is a federal law requiring the removal of inactive registrations from the voter rolls after two general federal elections (encompassing from 2 to 4 years). Inactive voter registrations belong, for the most part, to voters who have moved to another county or state or have passed away.


More:



> Prior to this settlement agreement, Judicial Watch estimated that based on comparisons of national census data to voter-roll information, *there were 3.5 million more names on various county voter rolls than there were citizens of voting age.* This settlement could cut this number in half.
> 
> This is only the third statewide settlement achieved by private plaintiffs under the NVRA – and Judicial Watch was the plaintiff in each of those cases. The other statewide settlements are with Ohio (in 2014) and with Kentucky (2018), which agreed to a court-ordered consent decree.


----------



## FeXL

"If it saves just _one_ life!!!"

In Memoriam: 12 Americans Allegedly Killed by Illegal Aliens in 2018



> As illegal immigration continues soaring in the United States and the illegal alien population booms to potentially 22 million, there have been multiple Americans who have been the victims of crimes allegedly committed by illegal aliens this past year.


----------



## FeXL

Can't figger why anybody would need a border wall. Nosireee...

Central American Countries Are Helping Middle Easterners Illegally Enter The United States



> Luckily, the Somali stayed long enough for an American intelligence analyst working with the name he had provided in Panama to unscramble it and match it to a pre-existing intelligence file that identified him as intertwined with an al Shabaab cell and smuggling network in Zambia, the U.S. intelligence official said.
> 
> The Americans interviewed Qoordheen at length, but the Somali gave up nothing, the U.S. officer said. The Americans then arranged to have him deported to Zambia, the officer said. *It turns out the Qoordheen case was only one of other such episodes about which the American public was never told, where terrorist suspects were discovered migrating through Latin America to the U.S. border*.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

Well, in that case...

Bernie Sanders: I'm Sorry For All My Sexual Harassment



> Oh.
> 
> _ Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Wednesday that he was not aware of the sexual harassment and pay disparity allegations during his 2016 presidential campaign, and apologized to "any woman who feels like she was not treated appropriately." _​


More:



> Remember, Bernie Sanders wrote an article in 1972 in which he stated that women, while having sex, fantasize about what they really want, which is to be raped by three men simultaneously.
> 
> _ "A woman enjoys intercourse with her man --as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously," Mr. Sanders wrote._​


I'll have to check with my lovely bride on that...

Further:



> *Grab 'em by the pussy.*


Links' emphasis.


----------



## FeXL

Those Moderate Muslims!



> She seems nice.
> 
> _ First Muslim Congresswoman Rashinda Tlaib: “We’re Going to Go In There and Impeach The Mother****er”…ele https://t.co/S6cLlVYibh pic.twitter.com/w8PT5zV1m9
> 
> — TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) January 4, 2019_​


:yikes:

Related:

Video surfaces of WaPo op-ed contributor chanting ‘Death to America’



> Less than two months after he was given prominent op-ed space in the Washington Post, a video has surfaced of Houthi rebel leader Mohammad Ali al-Houthi launching a shoulder-fired missile and then reciting the Houthi slogan, which calls for “Death to America.”
> 
> Meet Mohammed al-Houthi, a leader of the Houthi movement. The Washington Post recently gave him space to write an oped about "peace." pic.twitter.com/T5RyB5zh8V
> 
> — Mike (@Doranimated) January 1, 2019
> 
> The Washington Post contributor chants, “Allah is the greatest. Death to America. Death to Israel. Curse the Jews. Victory to Islam.” He has also taken to his unverified but media– and think tank-cited Twitter account to repeat the infamous Houthi slogan.


----------



## FeXL

What's this? Some sanity in the land of fruits & nuts?

California Sheriff SLAMS Sanctuary Cities, Illegal Immigration After SEVEN More Individuals Are Arrested In Cop Slaying



> He repeated his criticisms in a press conference on Friday announcing Arriaga's arrest, slamming California's "sanctuary state" laws that prevent law enforcement from prosecuting and deporting illegal immigrants captured during routine law enforcement actions.
> 
> "We were prohibited — law enforcement was prohibited because of sanctuary laws and that led to the encounter with officer Singh,” Christianson said. “The outcome could have been different if law enforcement wasn’t restricted, prohibited, or had their hands tied because of political interference.”


The sad irony?

The cop that was killed was a _legal_ immigrant...


----------



## FeXL

Ya think?!

New Documents Suggest The Steele Dossier Was A Deliberate Setup For Trump



> A trove of recently released documents sheds further light on the scope and logistics of the information operation designed to sabotage an American election. Players include the press, political operatives from both parties, and law enforcement and intelligence officials. Their instrument was the Steele dossier, first introduced to the American public two years ago.
> 
> A collection of reports compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele, the dossier is now engraved in contemporary U.S. history. First marketed as bedrock evidence that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, the dossier’s legitimacy took a hit after reports showed the Hillary Clinton campaign paid for the work.
> 
> The revelation that the dossier was used to secure a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page compromised the integrity of the investigation the FBI had opened on Page and three other Trump associates by the end of July 2016. Nonetheless, that same probe continues today as the special counsel investigation.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I'll have to check with my lovely bride on that...


Typical. Pulling something out of context, making it salacious for the low-information right-winger, who spread it as gospel and proof of poor character, which is all the more ironic given their incomprehensible alliance to a confessed abuser of women, their Dear Leader, the Buffoon-in-Chief.

How about actually linking the article to provide context, and let intelligent readers judge for themselves whether this is relevant 40+ years after it was written?

_...the article, written for an alternative newspaper called The Vermont Freeman, Mr. Sanders imagined male and female sexual fantasies, apparently to illustrate how both sexes have internalized gender stereotypes, which he went on to write were self-defeating. The Vermont Freeman no longer exists.

“A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously,” Mr. Sanders wrote.

In another passage, he wrote: “Do you know why the newspaper with the articles like, “Girl, 12, raped by 14 men” sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?’’

At the time, Mr. Sanders was 30 and running for Vermont governor on the antiwar Liberty Union Party ticket. He lost the race. Nine years later he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vt., as an independent. The 43-year old essay resurfaced this week in an article in Mother Jones magazine about Mr. Sanders’s formative years in Vermont’s leftist counterculture.

It is bouncing around social media, where Mr. Sanders is a favorite with the left, and it is unclear if the article will become a serious distraction to Mr. Sanders’s recently announced campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.

He has been drawing large crowds to rallies in New Hampshire and in Iowa, where he calls for progressive policies like higher taxes on the rich to pay for public works jobs.

“It was a poorly written article dealing with gender stereotypes of the period, in the sense that a lot of men have the feel to be all powerful and controlling,’’ Mr. Sanders said in an interview after a town hall event in Muscatine, Iowa.

“Women have the feeling they have to be dependent. It was very poorly written in a way I certainly would not write it now. But if you read it, what you find is that is a bad situation for both people: women shouldn’t be dependent. Men should not be oppressors. We want a society where people are equal. That was what it was about.’’_
(NYT)​


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Because his request for wall funding is perfectly legal, reasonable and part of the protection of borders for which the federal government is responsible. The Democrats' new pardigm that any and wall funding is "immoral" places them in a bizarre position where they are choosing active support of illegal immigration over the end of the government shutdown.


I agree.

Trump has actually been quite conciliatory in dealing with the democrats.

Pelosi is terrible in front of a microphone. But she's only house leader so shouldn't hear from her too much.

There are better reasons not to fund the wall.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> "If it saves just _one_ life!!!"
> 
> In Memoriam: 12 Americans Allegedly Killed by Illegal Aliens in 2018


Interesting when you do the math. US population ~325,000,000 collectively committed ~17,500 murders. which averages out to *.005%* of the general population committed murder.

According to your headline & quote there were ~22,000,000 illegal aliens who committed 12 murders which works out to an average of ~.00005% of the illegal alien population committing murder.

IOW at least in regard to homicide the illegals are better citizens than most US citizens.

Disclaimer: It was difficult to even pin down the total number of murders for 2017 and I failed to find any stat whatsoever for the actual number of homicides committed by illegal aliens. However by failing to provide that data the article itself fails.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> \But she's only house leader so shouldn't hear from her too much.


And yet, she just declared herself the constitutional equal of the president in power


----------



## FeXL

So, tell me, Oh Great One, just what did all of your "context" change?

S. F. A.



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Let’s see what Trump, the Wise One, has to say about Russia and Afghanistan.


----------



## Macfury

Which parts of the statement do you disagree with, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## eMacMan

Don't know why you wanted me to point out when your memes strayed from any basis in reality. Seems to me you already get enough flak without me piling on. However since you insisted, this is as good a place to start as any.



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Don't know why you wanted me to point out when your memes strayed from any basis in reality. Seems to me you already get enough flak without me piling on. However since you insisted, this is as good a place to start as any.




And which part of the analogy did you miss exactly?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> And which part of the analogy did you miss exactly?


The proof that it actually happened, that's what. Lame and a claim with no basis in fact.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> The proof that it actually happened, that's what. Lame and a claim with no basis in fact.




Umm, it’s a political cartoon, Don. It uses analogy comparing the Great Wall of China with Trump’s wall. Surely you don’t need me to explain the joke to you. I give you credit for intelligence.


----------



## Macfury

Mongol incursion was early 13th century. Wall construction began about 2000 years prior.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Umm, it’s a political cartoon, Don. It uses analogy comparing the Great Wall of China with Trump’s wall. Surely you don’t need me to explain the joke to you. I give you credit for intelligence.


----------



## Macfury

So Freddie, where exactly did you disagree with Trump's statements on Afghanistan? Be specific!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So Freddie, where exactly did you disagree with Trump's statements on Afghanistan? Be specific!




I disagree with pretty much all of Trump’s statements regarding Afghanistan, as do most observers with a brain. Which parts of his analysis do you agree with? Be specific!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I disagree with pretty much all of Trump’s statements regarding Afghanistan, as do most observers with a brain. Which parts of his analysis do you agree with? Be specific!


Most of Trump's statements are in fact accurate. The errors come in the omissions. Specifically that the US manipulated the Russians into taking on Afghanistan, that the CIA armed and trained the Taliban in the tactics that led to the Russian defeat, and that the US being total idiots then stepped into the very trap they created for the Russians with almost identical results.

To be fair, I am sure that Bush II was under enormous pressure from his elite puppet masters to restore the poppy fields and in that area the US was successful.


----------



## Macfury

Exactly. Most of that statement by Trump was factually accurate. Freddie dismissed "pretty much all" of it.



eMacMan said:


> Most of Trump's statements are in fact accurate. The errors come in the omissions. Specifically that the US manipulated the Russians into taking on Afghanistan, that the CIA armed and trained the Taliban in the tactics that led to the Russian defeat, and that the US being total idiots then stepped into the very trap they created for the Russians with almost identical results.
> 
> To be fair, I am sure that Bush II was under enormous pressure from his elite puppet masters to restore the poppy fields and in that area the US was successful.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Mongol incursion was early 13th century. Wall construction began about 2000 years prior.


D'oh!


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Exactly. Most of that statement by Trump was factually accurate. Freddie dismissed "pretty much all" of it.


Was it accurate?

Was Afghanistan the reason for the breakup of the Soviet Union? Or even the main reason?

Did the Soviet Union go bankrupt? 

Did the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan because of Terrorism?

This is Trump telling his story rather than history to make a point as usual. Accuracy be damned. I am sure at this point he has set a record with Politico...


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Was Afghanistan the reason for the breakup of the Soviet Union? Or even the main reason?


It was one of the reasons. A huge military failure that encouraged rebellion, and a horribly expensive failure that drained the USSR's coffers.



smashedbanana said:


> Did the Soviet Union go bankrupt?


It could no longer afford to maintain the empire, so yes.



smashedbanana said:


> Did the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan because of Terrorism?


Not primarily. It was to prop up a communist state that was failing. The Soviets faced considerable "terrorist" attacks while occupying.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> It was one of the reasons. A huge military failure that encouraged rebellion, and a horribly expensive failure that drained the USSR's coffers.


I agree. It opened up the military to challenge and thereby the union. But was it the main reason? If I had to pick a main reason I would pick American influence. Especially prior to Afghanistan, during and after. Second I would probably say Grobachov. I mean switch him with a hardliner and things could have gone much differently. End result maybe the same. Or maybe nuclear winter.



> It could no longer afford to maintain the empire, so yes.


Would we call that bankruptcy though? Likened to Venezuela is it the same thing. Not really.



> Not primarily. It was to prop up a communist state that was failing. The Soviets faced considerable "terrorist" attacks while occupying.


Did the Mujadeen exist before the invasion? Honestly asking. My understanding was the invasion related to the fragile communist government and the encroachment of the democratic movement.


----------



## FeXL

Believe It Or Not

Huh. Trump's immigration plan Pelosi & Schumer's 1996 agenda.

'Magine that...


----------



## FeXL

Still with the Russkies?

Shut It Down: Mueller's Grand Jury Votes to Extend Itself Another Six Months (Until It Needs Another Six Months to Find the REAL Russians)


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I agree. It opened up the military to challenge and thereby the union. But was it the main reason? If I had to pick a main reason I would pick American influence. Especially prior to Afghanistan, during and after. Second I would probably say Grobachov. I mean switch him with a hardliner and things could have gone much differently. End result maybe the same. Or maybe nuclear winter.


The "rebellion" was heavily funded by the US, so they were bringing the pain here as well. Some military sources from the USSR suggest that attempting to best the Reagan "Star Wars" program broke the Russian bank--the last straw. The space weaponry system was never completed, but apparently the Soviets wasted billions trying to compete. 

I agree about Gorbachev. I think he realized that you could not maintain a Soviet Empire in isolation behind an "Iron Curtain". And he recognized that he could no longer maintain that empire without crushing economic consequences.



smashedbanana said:


> Would we call that bankruptcy though? Likened to Venezuela is it the same thing. Not really.


Not bankrupt like Venezuela. Just too far stretched financially to continue without changing course.



smashedbanana said:


> Did the Mujadeen exist before the invasion? Honestly asking. My understanding was the invasion related to the fragile communist government and the encroachment of the democratic movement.


I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe any Islamic group fighting resistance can claim to be mujahideen and that the concept goes back to the British conflict in Afghanistan. The Afghan fighters in the Russian conflict were warlords and various Islamist groups that were fighting a decentralized war that infuriated the Russians (and now the Americans)--not a specific group that went in under that name. At the time I remember them to be considered the good guys by the news media. A dozen years later they were the bad guys.


----------



## CubaMark

The lies are powerful with this one


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> The lies are powerful with this one




Must be that new math some here are so fond of. Call it The Right Math.


----------



## Macfury

The memes are false with these two. 

Sanders said "known _or suspected_" terrorists. That's not a very valuable stat to begin with, since it could include almost anyone from a country identified as a sponsor of terrorism.


----------



## FeXL

So, A. Occasional-Cortex wants to raise tax rates for the "rich" to 70%. Julian Castro is all over that.

Julian Castro cites 90 percent tax on rich in defending Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on tax hikes



> Likely 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Julian Castro agrees with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez that tax rates on some of the wealthiest Americans should skyrocket.
> 
> "Oh, I can support folks at the top paying their fair share," Castro told ABC News' "This Week" on Sunday when asked directly whether he could endorse the high-profile New York Democrat's idea.
> 
> The Obama-era Housing and Urban Development secretary, who is expected to officially announce he's running for the White House this week, made the comments after Ocasio-Cortez caught flak for suggesting people earning more than $10 million could be taxed between "60 or 70 percent."


The interesting thing about people who make >$10 million/yr? They're very mobile...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The memes are false with these two.
> 
> Sanders said "known _or suspected_" terrorists. That's not a very valuable stat to begin with, since it could include almost anyone from a country identified as a sponsor of terrorism.


*No. *Sanders employed some mealy-mouthed squirming but never did admit she was wrong, and that's not at all what she initially said:

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Sunday continued to push the Trump administration’s false claims that terrorists pour into the U.S. across the border with Mexico. But Fox News’ Chris Wallace wasn’t having it.

Sanders had a heated exchange with the host of “Fox News Sunday”...

[....]

“Let’s talk about the wall,” Wallace said. “The president talks about terrorists potentially coming across the border.”

He then showed a clip of Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen stating Friday that “over 3,000 special interest aliens” trying to enter the U.S. from the southern border had been stopped by Border Patrol agents.

“But special interest aliens are just people who have come from countries that have ever produced a terrorist, they’re not terrorists themselves,” Wallace said. He also cited State Department reports that found “no credible evidence of any terrorist coming across the border from Mexico.”

Sanders responded, “We know that roughly nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at our southern border.”

Wallace, ready to pounce, interrupted Sanders with a blistering fact-check.

“Wait wait, ’cause I know the statistic,” he said. “I didn’t know if you were going to use it, but I studied up on this. Do you know where those 4,000 people come or where they’re captured? Airports.”

[....]

"The state department says there hasn’t been any terrorists found coming across the southern border from Mexico,” he added.

Sanders, seemingly ignoring the facts laid out before her, said terrorists enter the U.S. “by air, it’s by land, it’s by sea” and that the southern border is the country’s “most vulnerable point of entry.”

“But they’re not coming across the southern border, Sarah,” Wallace persisted. “They’re coming and they’re being stopped at airports.”

Sanders continued to dance around the facts, saying that terrorists are “coming a number of ways.”

[....]

Trump last month claimed the government had stopped terrorists from entering the U.S. from Mexico, but Reuters reported that no evidence backed up the president’s assertion, according to four government sources.

“People are pouring into our country, including terrorists,” Trump had said. “We have terrorists. We caught 10 terrorists over the last very short period of time. Ten. These are very serious people.”

(HuffPo)​
*Yeah,* I'm surprised as hell at Wallace / FoxNews too... man, when you've lost Fox, you've really lost it :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

This is exactly what I said. It is not a useful statistic because it is too broad in defining "suspected."

Don't be too surprised at FOX. Conservatives have watched its rapid transformation to a left-lib hub.




CubaMark said:


> *No. *Sanders employed some mealy-mouthed squirming but never did admit she was wrong, and that's not at all what she initially said:
> 
> White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Sunday continued to push the Trump administration’s false claims that terrorists pour into the U.S. across the border with Mexico. But Fox News’ Chris Wallace wasn’t having it.
> 
> Sanders had a heated exchange with the host of “Fox News Sunday”...
> 
> [....]
> 
> “Let’s talk about the wall,” Wallace said. “The president talks about terrorists potentially coming across the border.”
> 
> He then showed a clip of Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen stating Friday that “over 3,000 special interest aliens” trying to enter the U.S. from the southern border had been stopped by Border Patrol agents.
> 
> “But special interest aliens are just people who have come from countries that have ever produced a terrorist, they’re not terrorists themselves,” Wallace said. He also cited State Department reports that found “no credible evidence of any terrorist coming across the border from Mexico.”
> 
> Sanders responded, “We know that roughly nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at our southern border.”
> 
> Wallace, ready to pounce, interrupted Sanders with a blistering fact-check.
> 
> “Wait wait, ’cause I know the statistic,” he said. “I didn’t know if you were going to use it, but I studied up on this. Do you know where those 4,000 people come or where they’re captured? Airports.”
> 
> [....]
> 
> "The state department says there hasn’t been any terrorists found coming across the southern border from Mexico,” he added.
> 
> Sanders, seemingly ignoring the facts laid out before her, said terrorists enter the U.S. “by air, it’s by land, it’s by sea” and that the southern border is the country’s “most vulnerable point of entry.”
> 
> “But they’re not coming across the southern border, Sarah,” Wallace persisted. “They’re coming and they’re being stopped at airports.”
> 
> Sanders continued to dance around the facts, saying that terrorists are “coming a number of ways.”
> 
> [....]
> 
> Trump last month claimed the government had stopped terrorists from entering the U.S. from Mexico, but Reuters reported that no evidence backed up the president’s assertion, according to four government sources.
> 
> “People are pouring into our country, including terrorists,” Trump had said. “We have terrorists. We caught 10 terrorists over the last very short period of time. Ten. These are very serious people.”
> 
> (HuffPo)​
> *Yeah,* I'm surprised as hell at Wallace / FoxNews too... man, when you've lost Fox, you've really lost it :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Read. Learn.



CubaMark said:


> White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Sunday continued to push the Trump administration’s false claims that terrorists pour into the U.S. across the border with Mexico. But Fox News’ Chris Wallace wasn’t having it.​


----------



## FeXL

<sniff...>

Ocasio-Cortez Melts Down On Twitter Over Getting Fact-Checked



> Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had a meltdown in a series of tweets Monday over getting fact-checked by organizations like The Washington Post and PolitiFact.
> 
> “Facts are facts, America,” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted Monday. “We should care about getting things right. Yet standards of who gets fact-checked, how often + why are unclear. This is where false equivalency+bias creeps in, allowing climate deniers to be put on par w/scientists, for example.”


Wah-frickin'-wah. :-(

Yer p!$$!n' with the big dogs now, girlfriend. Time to earn your pay...

Oh, & this:



> “I say true things all the time – I’d hope most do,” Ocasio-Cortez wrote. “When does Politifact choose to rate true statements?”


What? You want a bone? A participation trophy? An "'Atta girl"? For what? For finally getting something right?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Time for recess, idn't it?

I tell ya, folks, this one is going to provide mocking fodder for years.


----------



## FeXL

I offer the following article with no further comment.

_Second_ Dead Body Found in Home of Prominent Democrat Donor Ed Buck



> The _second_ dead body just found in his home?
> 
> _ A man’s body was found early Monday in the West Hollywood home of prominent Democratic donor Ed Buck, authorities said.
> 
> ...
> 
> Paramedics pronounced a man dead at the scene. The cause of death was not yet known.
> 
> The dead man's name has not been released, but Nicole Nishida, a spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Department, said he was black.
> 
> Buck previously was investigated for the death of another black man in his apartment -- the 2017 overdose of Gemmel Moore, 26.
> 
> Buck was present for the deaths of both men, the Sheriff’s Department said Monday.
> 
> Buck's attorney, Seymour Amster, said Buck was not arrested and is cooperating with investigators._​


More:



> Dear Peons,
> 
> This populist fantasy that there is a rich elite in this country immune even to laws about negligent homicide? Total fiction pushed on you by demagogues.
> 
> Signed,
> 
> The People Paying for Bill Kristol's Website


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Broward Sheriff Scott Israel, Who Permitted Nikolas Cruz to Commit Crime After Crime With No Paper Trail, and Who Did Not Take Action Against the Coward of Broward for Sitting Out the Shooting, to be Removed by Gov. DeSantis



> Powers Boothe says, "Well, Bye-eh."
> 
> _ The two-term sheriff, the object of fierce criticism over BSO's handling of the Parkland massacre, told his top commanders that he will be removed from office by Gov. Ron DeSantis, sources have told the Miami Herald.
> 
> DeSantis, who was sworn in Tuesday morning, had not made a formal announcement of a possible suspension. Israel's discussions with staff about his ouster was first reported by Miami New Times.
> 
> ...
> 
> But Jeff Bell, BSO's union chief, said Israel told his staff on Monday that his ouster was inevitable.
> 
> "We know that he is telling everyone at the public safety building that he is going to be gone," said Bell, who was at DeSantis' swearing-in ceremony in Tallahassee on Tuesday._​


----------



## FeXL

Russia! Russia! Russia!



> From the paper that buried Spygate;
> 
> _ The “Dry Alabama” Facebook page, illustrated with stark images of car wrecks and videos of families ruined by drink, had a blunt message: Alcohol is the devil’s work, and the state should ban it entirely.
> 
> Along with a companion Twitter feed, the Facebook page appeared to be the work of Baptist teetotalers who supported the Republican, Roy S. Moore, in the 2017 Alabama Senate race. “Pray for Roy Moore,” one tweet exhorted.
> 
> * In fact, the Dry Alabama campaign, not previously reported, was the stealth creation of progressive Democrats who were out to defeat Mr. Moore — the second such secret effort to be unmasked. In a political bank shot made in the last two weeks of the campaign, they thought associating Mr. Moore with calls for a statewide alcohol ban would hurt him with moderate, business-oriented Republicans and assist the Democrat, Doug Jones, who won the special election by a hair-thin margin.*
> 
> Matt Osborne, a veteran progressive activist who worked on the project, said he hoped that such deceptive tactics would someday be banned from American politics. But in the meantime, he said, he believes that Republicans are using such trickery and that Democrats cannot unilaterally give it up.
> 
> “If you don’t do it, you’re fighting with one hand tied behind your back,” said Mr. Osborne, a writer and consultant who lives outside Florence, Ala. “You have a moral imperative to do this — to do whatever it takes.”
> 
> The discovery of Dry Alabama, the second so-called false flag operation by Democrats in the fiercely contested Alabama race, underscores how dirty tricks on social media are creeping into American politics. The New York Times reported last month on a separate project that used its own bogus conservative Facebook page and sent a horde of Russian-looking Twitter accounts to follow Mr. Moore’s to make it appear as if he enjoyed Russian support._​


Bold mine.

The only think shocking about this is the Grey Lady actually reporting it...

Related:

NYT Finds More Evidence Of ‘Social Media Trickery’ In Alabama Senate Race



> A series of new reports reveal the full extent to which Democratic operatives engaged in a social media disinformation campaign targeting Alabama voters ahead of a special election campaign in 2017.
> 
> Progressives created a disinformation campaign exploiting concerns that former senatorial candidate Roy Moore would reimplement prohibition, The New York Times reported Monday. Another spate of reports in December revealed a similar project designed to harm Moore.
> 
> Operatives created a “Dry Alabama” Facebook page with a blunt message attached: Alcohol is evil and should be prohibited. The page included images of car wrecks and ruined families, the report notes. Its contents were targeted at business conservatives who are inclined to oppose prohibition.


----------



## FeXL

Polls: Americans Want Border Security



> Based on media narratives, and NeverTrump agitation, you'd think Americans were clamoring for Moar DACA.
> 
> ...
> 
> _An Economist/YouGov poll shows that a whopping 62 percent of Americans view illegal immigration as either a "very serious problem" or a "somewhat serious problem" -- with only seven percent of Americans believing that illegal immigration is "not" a problem._​


I can hear Nancy's dentures clattering from here...


----------



## FeXL

Wheels Within Wheels and Sources Who Have Sources: Glenn Simpson's Fusion InfoOp Continues Vomiting Up Lies, and McClatchy Newspapers Keeps Licking It All Up



> *Stories are now being attributed to sources who themselves have sources.*
> 
> That is, they are dispensing with the notion that a source is someone with first-hand information about the claims being made. Now they're printing hearsay from a source (Glenn Simpson and co.) who claim they in turn have sources who told them about the information.
> 
> Ashe Schow begins the story by revisting McClatchy's last FusionGPS #FakeNews report, that Cleta Mitchell, a current lawyer for the NRA, became aware that the NRA was taking #MoneyFromRussians for Trump.
> 
> McClatchy was unbothered that this "report" (from Fusion) contained two claims, one which could be fact-checked and one that couldn't be, and the claim that could be fact-checked, that she was the _current_ lawyer for the NRA, was flat-out wrong -- she stopped working for the NRA ten years ago.
> 
> But I guess that gave them even more confidence in the other claim, that Russians were funneling money to Trump through the NRA. I guess based on the idea that if they got one thing wrong, heck, Fusion must be right about the other thing!
> 
> No matter how many denials she issued, McClatchky was determined to claim that Cleta Michell herself had told someone else that she was very worried about this #RussianMoneySituation.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Russian Lawyer Who Worked With Fusion GPS and Met With Trump Jr. Charged With Obstruction of Justice



> Nowhere in this Washington Post article does it mention that Veselnitskya worked with Fusion GPS to both roll back the Magnitsky Act and entrap Trump Jr.
> 
> Because of course it doesn't. They're all part of the same lie.


Yeppers.


----------



## SINC

So there!

*BOMBSHELL: WIKILEAKS ANNOUNCES OFFICIALLY NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION AND NO CONTACT WITH TRUMP CAMPAIGN*

https://davidharrisjr.com/politics/...collusion-and-no-contact-with-trump-campaign/


----------



## smashedbanana

SINC said:


> So there!
> 
> *BOMBSHELL: WIKILEAKS ANNOUNCES OFFICIALLY NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION AND NO CONTACT WITH TRUMP CAMPAIGN*
> 
> https://davidharrisjr.com/politics/...collusion-and-no-contact-with-trump-campaign/


Don't see anything about Russia there. David is taking liberties.


----------



## FeXL

As opposed to, say, all the Progs who have done the same with the Russkie narrative since day one?



smashedbanana said:


> David is taking liberties.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Don't see anything about Russia there. David is taking liberties.


Actually a lot about Russia in the form of straight up denials and from a known reliable source. Compare that to the Hiliary financed Steele dossier, which contains only vague and unsubstantiated allegations.

Still the so-called Russian collusion remains nothing but a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the DNC and Hiliaries disastrous run for the presidency.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> As opposed to, say, all the Progs who have done the same with the Russkie narrative since day one?


Is it the progressives though Fexl. Is it really? Is the entire left of your spectrum progressive?


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Actually a lot about Russia in the form of straight up denials and from a known reliable source. Compare that to the Hiliary financed Steele dossier, which contains only vague and unsubstantiated allegations.
> 
> Still the so-called Russian collusion remains nothing but a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the DNC and Hiliaries disastrous run for the presidency.


Google the tweet put out by Wikileaks. Has any other coverage linked Russia? Did Wikileaks even mention Russia?


----------



## FeXL

The Progs proper, the RINO's, the NeverTrumpers (not all Progs are lefties).

They're all <spit> Progs. Ideologues who believe more in faith-based religion than facts.



smashedbanana said:


> Is it the progressives though Fexl. Is it really?


Nope. Fer instance, Beej. He's a classic liberal. _Not_ a Prog.

What I do find interesting is how many lefties on these boards _are_ Progs.



smashedbanana said:


> Is the entire left of your spectrum progressive?


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

The Democrats Efforts to Attack Our Democracy Didn't Stop With the Jones-Moore Race in Alabama -- The False Flag Campaign of Deceit Continued Into the 2018 Midterms



> Adam Schiff will hop right on this. (Thanks, NeverTrump!)
> 
> _ Democratic operatives, led by a former Obama official, bought ads on misleading Facebook pages to suppress GOP turnout in the midterm elections.
> 
> The pages appear to be designed to give the impression that they were operated by disgruntled conservatives rather than Democratic operatives.
> 
> The operatives were funded by left-wing billionaire Reid Hoffman, who previously funded a "false flag" effort in the 2017 Alabama special election.
> 
> Democratic operatives funded by left-wing tech billionaire Reid Hoffman ran a widespread campaign using misleading Facebook pages in the run-up to the 2018 midterm elections, The Daily Caller News Foundation has found.
> 
> * American Engagement Technologies (AET), which was founded by former Obama administration official Mikey Dickerson, bought ads for two Facebook pages, "The Daily Real" and "Today's Nation," encouraging Republican voters to stay home in the midterm elections, Facebook's ad archives show.
> 
> Both pages appear to be designed to give the impression that they were operated by frustrated conservatives rather than by Democratic operatives.*_​


Links' bold.

More:



> Why is the media not talking about this? They hyped false-flag social media campaigns for three ****ing years and now that it's proven an _Obama aide_ was part of just such an effort, they decide it's not The New Sexy any longer?


Pretty much. Ain't an issue if the left is doing it. It's that old double standard, yet again.


----------



## FeXL

CBS "Fact-Check" Finds That Trump's Claim About Women Migrants Being Raped Wasn't Exaggerated But Was Understated, But Then Deletes Its Own Fact-Check as Insufficiently Helpful to the Cause



> _CBS decided to help Democrats by fact-checking in real time President Trump's address on the need for a wall.
> 
> CBS reported, "Fact check: Number of women sexually assaulted on trip to border.
> 
> "CLAIM: The president claimed one in three women have been sexually assaulted traveling to the border.
> 
> "FACT CHECK: Between 60 percent and 80 percent of female migrants traveling through Mexico are raped along the way, Amnesty International estimates."_​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Is it the progressives though Fexl. Is it really? Is the entire left of your spectrum progressive?




Anything that’s not as far right as he is he considers progressives and socialists.


----------



## macintosh doctor

this meme is making laugh as it fits them perfectly


----------



## Macfury

What a pair of morticians. I love that the Democrat party is now represented by feeble oldsters and young communist wingnuts.


----------



## Macfury

Wahhhhhhhh! You didn't address FeXL directly. Oh, so rude!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anything that’s not as far right as he is he considers progressives and socialists.


----------



## FeXL

Once again, Freddie. Fifteen years I've been on these boards & you still don't have a clew where I sit on the political spectrum.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anything that’s not as far right as he is he considers progressives and socialists.


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's talk A Occasional Cortex s'more.

Fair Share? Top 20% Of Households Pay Vast Majority Of Income Taxes



> The Democrats have officially taken over the House for the first time in eight years, and among the swarms of far-left "fresh faces" is democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who is proposing, among many other things, a steep increase in the federal income tax rate, which would see the top bracket jump from 37 to 70%.
> 
> That proposal is winning applause from some of Ocasio-Cortez's fellow hardcore progressives, but does the U.S. really need more progressive tax rates? Americans for Tax Reform provided some highlights of how the current tax burden plays out among some of the key brackets, and it turns out that top earners already pay their "fair share."
> 
> *The top 20% of households paid 88.1% of federal income taxes, and 69.5% of total federal taxes in 2015*, ATR notes, citing the most recent numbers provided by the Congressional Budget Office.


Bold mine.

Related:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the Top Marginal Tax Hike Boondoggle



> Socialist newcomer Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez recently revived a radical Democrat talking point from its slumber, suggesting to Anderson Cooper in a 60 Minutes interview that we should have a top marginal income tax rate of 70% applied to an arbitrarily set $10 million or so in annual earnings, or the "tippy tops" of income earnings, as she frames it.
> 
> First, let's state the obvious. When the top marginal tax rate is discussed in this manner, taxation is nothing more than a political cudgel to advance a narrative of class struggle. *But let's pretend, as leftist social engineers often do, that there's actually an economic argument behind it.*


M'bold.

<snort>


----------



## FeXL

Is that like, "You'll have to pass it to find out what's in it"?

Pelosi: 'You’ll Find Out’ What Dems Will Do If Trump Uses Emergency Powers to Build Wall



> If President Donald Trump decides to use his emergency powers to build the border wall, he’ll see what the Democrats will do in response, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Thursday.
> 
> When asked how she would react if the president declares the illegal immigration issue a national emergency and uses his executive powers to build a wall, Pelosi told reporters, “If and when the president does that, you’ll find out how we will react, but I’m not going to that place now.”


Oooooooooooo, scary...

Whaddya gonna do, Nancy? Throw yer dentures at him? 

Related:

Trump Moves Closer to Invoking Emergency Powers to Build Wall



> “Congress expressly gave presidents the authority to declare such emergencies and act unilaterally,” Turley writes.
> 
> _ *The 1976 National Emergencies Act gives presidents sweeping authority as well as allowance in federal regulations to declare an “immigration emergency” to deal with an “influx of aliens which either is of such magnitude or exhibits such other characteristics that effective administration of the immigration laws of the United States is beyond the existing capabilities” of immigration authorities “in the affected area or areas.”* The basis for such an invocation generally includes the “likelihood of continued growth in the magnitude of the influx,” rising criminal activity, as well as high “demands on law enforcement agencies” and “other circumstances.”_​
> “Democrats,” Turley writes, “have not objected to use of this authority regularly by past presidents, including roughly 30 such emergencies that continue to this day. Other statutes afford additional emergency powers.”
> 
> Turley adds that a Congressional Research Service report from 2007 stated, “Under the powers delegated by such statutes, the president may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens.”
> 
> President Trump has already invoked the National Emergencies Act three times in his tenure, according to ABC News. *President Barack Obama invoked the statute no fewer than 10 times.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Progs: "But Fox News supports the riiiiight".

Q13 Fox staffer fired after TV station airs altered Trump video



> A staffer at local Fox affiliate Q13 has been fired after the station aired what appears to be a doctored video of President Donald Trump’s Tuesday night speech from the Oval Office.
> 
> The video was changed to make it look as if Trump was sticking his tongue out languidly between sentences. In addition, the colors in the video look more saturated, leading the president’s skin and hair to appear orange.


----------



## FeXL

Further to this missed diagnosis.

"It is ignorant to explain a fellow poster's views especially when you have no idea what you are talking about."

Ignoramus...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Anything that’s not as far right as he is he considers progressives and socialists.


----------



## FeXL

So, why is it that a whole ton of American Prog politicians were for secured borders back in the naughts & now they're not?



> On Wednesday morning, Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer asked DNC Chair Tom Perez "what changed" to convince Democrats who voted for increased border security in 2006 and 2013 to resolutely oppose President Donald Trump on a wall now. Perez did not answer the question, and attempted to combat the idea that the difference has more to do with personality than policy.
> 
> "You passed a lot of bills. [In] 2013, [Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.)] voted for more border security. [Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)] voted for more border security. [Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)] voted for it. 2006, Hillary Clinton voted for it, Barack Obama voted for it; Schumer voted for it again going back 12 years," Hemmer noted.


I mean, sure, when the information changes I re-evaluate my own position. It just makes sense.

Thing is, the information on illegal aliens has not changed. Therefore, WTF?

And, _and_, I ain't buying Perez's BS about "smart border security". Under the guise of "smart border security" as many as 30 million illegal aliens now reside in the US. That ain't very f'ing "smart".

Related:

DOD IG Reveals The Pentagon Let $27.7 Billion ‘Expire’ As Trump Seeks $5.7 Billion In Border Wall Funding



> The Defense Department has relinquished over $27 billion to the U.S. Treasury since 2013 simply because it couldn’t spend the money quick enough, according to a DOD Inspector General report released Tuesday.
> 
> The DOD was required to fork over the “expired funds” because the Pentagon failed to spend it “within the legal timeframes,” according to the report.


So, once again, it's _not_ the money.


----------



## FeXL

WHAT?! _Not_ the Russkies???!!! :yikes:

Blockbuster Russia collusion story collapses, NY Times issues devastating “correction”



> Ken Meyer at Mediaite reports, _New York Times_ Makes Major Correction to Report on Manafort and Russian Oligarch:
> 
> _New York Times_ has made a significant edit to their report on Paul Manafort‘s sharing of Trump campaign polling data with an associate believed to be connected to Russian intelligence.
> 
> There’s been a great deal of commotion lately after Manafort’s legal team botched a series of court redactions and inadvertently revealed that he gave campaign data to his former business partner, Konstantin Kilimnik. When the Times initially reported on the news, they said Manafort had his former campaign deputy Rick Gates pass the data to Kilimnik so it could be relayed to Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch closely tied to the Kremlin.
> 
> On Wednesday, the Times made a correction to their piece, saying Manafort actually wanted Kilimnik to direct the data to Ukrainian oligarchs Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not Deripaska.
> 
> Here’s the _Times_‘ correction:
> 
> A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.​


More:



> Marshall was forced to eat crow to his prior post (quoted above):
> 
> _ [Ed. Note: Early this afternoon, the Times published a correction. Manafort asked for his campaign data to be passed not to Oleg Deripaska but two pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs named Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, financial backers of Viktor Yanukovych. This is a major correction and a major error. But as I explain here, I don’t think it changes the big picture. *Manafort was sending confidential campaign data back to pro-Russian figures in Ukraine while Russia was conducting a major effort to elect Donald Trump.* I’ve left the post below as written before the Times‘ correction.]_​


Bold mine.

<sigh> Still with the Russkies... XX)


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Is that like, "You'll have to pass it to find out what's in it"?
> 
> Pelosi: 'You’ll Find Out’ What Dems Will Do If Trump Uses Emergency Powers to Build Wall
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooooooo, scary...
> 
> Whaddya gonna do, Nancy? Throw yer dentures at him?
> 
> Related:
> 
> Trump Moves Closer to Invoking Emergency Powers to Build Wall
> 
> Bold mine.


IMO resorting to emergency powers in this situation would be a blatant abuse of power. Of course the super elite are always looking to consolidate their power at the expense of the rights of Americans guaranteed under the Bill of Rights.

Cut off staff funding, travel and meal expenses, and junkets to: The White House, Congressmen and Senators. Do that and they will quickly resolve this impasse without further incentive.


----------



## FeXL

No Crisis: New Caravan Forming For Another Surge Across the Border



> We'll just send them a sharply-worded letter.
> 
> Another migrant caravan is forming in Honduras, with plans to set out next week on a journey that will once again test the immigration policies of Mexico and the United States.​
> Meanwhile, CNN contacted journalists in San Diego to get the "local view" of the effectiveness of San Diego's border wall. The reporters would have informed CNN that the wall was very effective.
> 
> So CNN decided to not book them as guests.
> 
> CNN asked a local news station to provide a reporter to give their local perspective on the border. When KUSI News responded and provided them with a reporter who had done extensive reporting on the wall and how it’s been effective, CNN changed their mind. pic.twitter.com/aU4ymREgcQ
> — Caleb Hull (@CalebJHull) January 11, 2019​


Can't have the narrative fractured now, can we?


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> IMO resorting to emergency powers in this situation would be a blatant abuse of power.


I don't know if it's an abuse of power or not.

What I do know is that it's refreshing to see a politician, any politician, hold fast to what not only got him elected, but what is best for the country at large.


----------



## FeXL

"Distraction"?

I don't think that word means what they think it means...

Dems Say They Aren’t Refusing Their Pay During Shutdown Because it Would be a 'Distraction'



> One Democratic congressman told PJM he’s not joining other members of Congress in declining a paycheck during the government shutdown because it would be a “distraction” if lawmakers weren’t paid, as well.
> 
> So far, more than a dozen lawmakers have voluntarily declined their paychecks due to the ongoing shutdown. Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.) has reintroduced the _No Budget No Pay Act_ and announced that he would send his payment to the U.S. Treasury until the government reopens.


More:



> “I will not accept any pay during any government shutdown. I am not delaying my pay; I am sending it back to the United States Treasury. And I am urging all my colleagues, both Republican and Democrat, to do the same. Let’s send a message to the extreme partisans on both sides: do your job or don’t get paid,” Fitzpatrick said in a recent statement.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> I don't know if it's an abuse of power or not.
> 
> What I do know is that it's refreshing to see a politician, any politician, hold fast to what not only got him elected, but what is best for the country at large.


Agreed!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Well, let's talk A Occasional Cortex s'more.


Mock her all you like, she doesn't seem to be bothered by the haters... 

Besides, she has an asteroid named for her. You can't even begin to approach that cool factor


----------



## Macfury

I think CM is in love.

Could you imagine someone here saying: "Mock Trump all you like, he doesn't seem to be bothered by the haters"?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Mock her all you like, she doesn't seem to be bothered by the haters...
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, she has an asteroid named for her. You can't even begin to approach that cool factor




I like her spunk. She has a confidence that’s disarms people.


----------



## Macfury

I like it that she's so unapologetic about her own bad ideas and lack of knowledge! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> I like her spunk. She has a confidence that’s disarms people.


----------



## FeXL

On the contrary, she's already been pi$$ing & moaning about being fact checked, all the while complaining about not receiving a participation trophy for the ~1% she actually does get correct. 

H8ter? I love it every time she opens that hole under her nose. It's hilarious! She reminds me of two of our very own vacuous idiot Progs, the Gropenfuhrer & Climate Barbie. 



CubaMark said:


> Mock her all you like, she doesn't seem to be bothered by the haters...


Oooooooo, an asteroid. 

How appropriate. 

A brainless, oblivious, unthinking artifact floating around in a complete vacuum near absolute zero...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> she has an asteroid named for her. You can't even begin to approach that cool factor


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Besides, she has an asteroid named for her. You can't even begin to approach that cool factor


Name a Star - Buy a star - Global Star Registry™


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Could you imagine someone here saying: "Mock Trump all you like, he doesn't seem to be bothered by the haters"?


Ocasio-Cortez is the persona parts of the left have been waiting for. Watching them treat her like a star, over the even more manufactured O'Rourke "phenom", is quite funny. 

They almost get it, then not so much.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> ....A brainless, oblivious, unthinking artifact floating around in a complete vacuum....


Sounds less like AOC and more like the Cheetoh-in-Chief:

"When during the campaign I would say, 'Mexico's going to pay for it,' obviously I never said this and I never meant they're going to write out a check."
_-- Trump_​
"And they don't come in at the checkpoints, which they do also."
_-- Trump_​
(Doonesbury)​


----------



## CubaMark

The US Gov't shutdown is not only incredibly difficult for many federal employees (and private businesses and their employees who sell their products and services to gov't agencies in turn), it's also potentially dangerous. 

US Air Traffic Controllers aren't getting paid. Is it really a good idea to upset the folks who have to be able to afford a cup of coffee before trying to manage a few hundred flights a day safely?

Canadian ATCs are supporting their counterparts by buying them pizza... at least the central NYC controllers will be able to hear radio chatter instead of their tummies rumbling with hunger....

_Hey Canada, THANK YOU!!!!!! This was in the hallway of New York Center (ZNY) today. Canadian air traffic controllers bought dinner for FAA air traffic controllers last night (all over the country) in an effort to show their support during the US government shutdown._










(Reddit)​


----------



## Macfury

Most of those federal employees should not be employed by the government to begin with. They missed ONE paycheque? How about the amount picked out of taxpayers' pockets to fund their gold-plated salary and benefit packages? No sympathy.


----------



## CubaMark

*EDIT:* _the following meme is not a direct quote of President Trump, but a paraphrase of his comments made during the period in question. While the meme is technically inaccurate, the content is nonetheless spot-on. _


----------



## Macfury

I guess you don't follow the thread CM. Always late to the party.

Hint: This is not something Trump said. 

Next?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Half true, as stated before. 



> Our ruling
> A Facebook post claims Trump said a government shutdown "falls on the president’s lack of leadership" and means the "president is weak" in 2013.
> 
> We couldn’t find an instance when Trump said those exact words all together, but he did repeat similar statements on social media and in interviews at the time, saying "the pressure is on the president" during a shutdown and that the president "has to get everybody in a room and be a leader."
> 
> The statement is partially accurate but leaves out important details. We rate the statement Half True.


 https://www.politifact.com/faceboo...ump-criticize-obama-during-2013-government-s/

A hell of a lot more true than the Trudeau flag burning image that several people here defended. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

"We couldn't find those words together."

So not a quote and not true.

And nobody defended the veracity of the flag burning pic. It's just that I'm not offended by a quisling like Trudeau being posed that way.


----------



## CubaMark

Want an informed opinion on Trump's border wall project?

Read this Twitter thread.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> "We couldn't find those words together."
> 
> So not a quote and not true.


I'll give you that it's not a direct quote, but your conclusion that this is "not true" as in not an accurate summation of Trump's remarks on the President and the issue of shutdown, is erroneous.

Here are some of Trump's actual words from that period:









(Politifact)


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

^

Now that's funny!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Want an informed opinion on Trump's border wall project?
> 
> 
> 
> Read this Twitter thread.




She nails it. Talk about a boondoggle. 



> I don’t know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Pay more attention to CM's posts to learn about being funny.


----------



## FeXL

What a stunning comeback, CM! You get help from your fellow Progs for that or did you figger it out out all by yourself?



CubaMark said:


> Sounds less like AOC and more like the Cheetoh-in-Chief


----------



## FeXL

Funny Business

Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

Quelle surprise...

Nevada Gov Taps Dem Aaron Ford, Who Protected Sexual Harasser, to Lead Sexual Harassment Taskforce



> Democratic Gov. Steve Sisolak (Nev.) issued his first executive order on Monday creating a task force to prevent sexual harassment, but the individual he selected mishandled sexual harassment allegations for political gain while leading Nevada Senate Democrats.
> 
> Sisolak was sworn into office on Monday and made it his first order of business to combat sexual harassment. The order said Nevada must "examine and address the power inequities, harassment and discrimination reporting failures and flaws in anti-discrimination laws, policies and procedures that have allowed sexual harassment and discrimination to persist," according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
> 
> Sisolak selected Aaron Ford, the new Nevada attorney general, to be the chair of the panel, despite his history of allowing sexual harassment to continue when he led Democrats in the Nevada Senate.


----------



## FeXL

Further _progressive thinking_ from the new Darling of the Left, A Occasional Cortex.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Why Are We Even Funding Border Patrols at All?



> She asks why we're funding ICE at all, but, as usual, she has no ****ing idea what she's talking about. ICE is responsible for picking up illegals who are already in the interior of the country. The Border Patrol is responsible for stopping illegals at (or very near) the border, and that's the outfit she's saying brings nothing but "DEATH" and which should not be funded.


Fodder for years... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Related:

LOL: Sandy "Red" Cortez Whines About Being Fact-Checked, and Suddenly the Leftwing Media Rushes to Agree, "Yes, Fact-Checking is Biased and Ideologically Motivated"



> By the way: *At the link, you'll see that AOC still has her lie up about a constituent whining that he doesn't know what to do now that he's missed federal paychecks.
> 
> Not a single federal paycheck has not gone out as scheduled yet.*
> 
> But hey, facts are just tools of the patriarchy.
> 
> And fact-checks are partisan things smeared in ideology -- but only if Red Cortez is being fact-checked.


Bold mine.

I jes' luvs me sum _progressive thinking_...


----------



## FeXL

When you've lost the _progressive thinking_ WaPo...

Even The Washington Post Admits There’s A ‘Bona Fide Emergency’ At U.S. Border



> "With parts of the federal government shut down over what has morphed into the defining symbol of Trump’s presidency, administration officials are clamoring louder than ever. Only this time, they face a bona fide emergency on the border, and they’re struggling to make the case there’s truly a problem," the Post wrote in a story headlined "After years of Trump’s dire warnings, a ‘crisis’ has hit the border but generates little urgency."


More:



> *And when even The Washington Post is admitting there's a "bona fide emergency," you know there's a serious problem.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Virginia, too?

Virginia Threatened With Lawsuit Over Non-Citizen Voter Roll Maintenance



> The Virginia Department of Elections is being threatened with litigation over its procedures to remove non-citizens from voter rolls by an election integrity group that says the state's procedure is resulting in the wrongful removal of eligible citizens from its registrations.
> 
> The Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF), a group that litigates to protect election integrity, sent a notice to the Virginia Department of Elections on Dec. 12 warning that it could face a lawsuit unless it corrects its voter roll maintenance procedures. The department has yet to respond to the group nearly one month after the notice was delivered, according to its spokesman.
> 
> The PILF released a report in 2017 that detailed how state election officials removed 5.556 noncitizen voters from rolls between 2011 and 2017. Of the 5,556 noncitizens removed, 1,852 cast a total of 7,474 ballots in elections.


Bu-, b-, bu-, but... The Progs tell me there's no such things as voter fraaaaaauuudd! :-(

Related:

Did Ballot-Harvesting By Illegals Flip Elections To Democrats? 



> A recent Los Angeles Times article — titled "How young immigrant 'Dreamers' made flipping control of the House a personal quest" — talked about how those who came to the country illegally as children had been running around California helping otherwise nonvoters fill out ballots.
> 
> ...
> 
> It's a practice called ballot-harvesting, and it's illegal in many states. Former Gov. Jerry Brown legalized the practice in California in 2016. Remember, these so-called Dreamers are technically in the U.S. illegally.
> 
> "This pretty well amounts to foreign nationals voting, without any fear of prosecution," noted Monica Showalter, who has been following this story at American Thinker.


----------



## FeXL

No argument.

‘It’s the Democrats who are the racists’



> Levin read from the 2008 Democratic Party platform, referred to in the article, which criticized the nation’s “broken immigration system” and said that those who employ illegal immigrants “disrespect the rule of law.” He noted that the Democrats’ policy positions “mirror President Donald Trump’s call for a wall covering part of the U.S.-Mexico border and an increase in the amount of Customs and Border Protection agents.”
> 
> Levin explained that the 2016 platform was quite a bit different, with no mention of immigration enforcement, among other flip-flops. Beinart’s article says the reason for the switch is “political”: that between 2008 and 2016, Democrats changed their position to garner the support of Latino voters. “To win the presidency,” Beinart wrote, “Democrats convinced themselves they didn’t need to reassure white people skeptical of immigration, so long as they turned out their Latino base.”


Once again: the data hasn't changed. The Progs changed their minds in order to chase votes. Hardly a solid reason...


----------



## FeXL

<whimper...>

Sad Story: Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib Passed Over For Seats On Powerful Committees



> ‘Heartbreak’ on Capitol Hill:
> 
> Ocasio- Cortez has been in Congress for one whole week… so of course she thought she was entitled to sit on a powerful committee where she could push her pipe dreams of free…everything!
> 
> Because remember: *facts don’t matter… when you’re morally right.*
> 
> Or something.


M'bold.

<sniff> :-(

Related:

Exasperated Democrats try to rein in Ocasio-Cortez



> Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is already making enemies in the House Democratic Caucus — and some of its members are mounting an operation to bring the anti-establishment, democratic socialist with 2.2 million Twitter followers into the fold.


Oh, so she's a _Twitter_ star?

That tells me more than I need to know about both her & those who praise, her, CM... :lmao:

Related, too:


----------



## FeXL

There was some discussion earlier on about the cost of building the wall. I had only read about the $5 billion. The linked article collates a number of other estimates, comes up with an arbitrary number ($25 billion) & compares it against costs of illegal aliens.

Do the Math: Trump’s Wall Is $25 Billion, Illegals Cost $165 Billion



> Illegal aliens cause economic harm to Americans because they consume far more in government services than they contribute in taxes. We make: they take.
> 
> According to a 2017 report from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), illegal aliens and their children cost American taxpayers $135 billion annually—$8,075 per alien per year. These costs are partially offset by taxes collected from illegal aliens, which total around $19 billion. Thus, the net cost of illegal immigrants to American taxpayers is $116 billion annually.
> 
> The report also details how those billions are spent. Unsurprisingly, state and local governments bear the majority (two-thirds) of the costs, spending $88 billion annually. The federal government has it relatively easy, spending just $45 billion. This is ironic, given that the federal government created this problem. What’s more, the federal government receives the lion’s share of taxes paid by illegal aliens ($15.4 billion), while state and local governments receive just $3.5 billion in annual taxes from illegal immigrants.
> 
> Unsurprisingly, the single greatest cost associated with illegal immigration is educating their children ($46 billion a year). Not only is this expensive, but it reduces school quality for American students. Consider that one-in-five California students is an illegal alien or anchor baby. This crowding is the main reason why California’s public school system is one of America’s worst: California has one of the highest student-teacher ratios and among the lowest per-student spending in America. Government also spends $29 billion on medical expenses, $23 billion on law enforcement, and $9 billion on straight-up welfare programs (some of which actually favor illegal aliens over American citizens).
> 
> Illegal aliens also cost Americans indirectly by sending $30 billion in remittances abroad per year—this is the “hidden tax” that Americans pay for illegal labor.


The punch line? Even at a wall cost of $25 billion:



> America could build a highly-effective border wall for some $25 billion. Meanwhile, illegal aliens cost Americans $165 billion worth of taxes and remittances every year. Do the math.


Related:

We Could Build 2 Border Walls By Just By Eliminating 'Improper Payments' — Audit Shows



> Even President Obama's head of the Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, admitted as much. When asked in an interview with Public Radio International if the "physical barrier" built south of Yuma, Ariz., had been effective, her answer was "yes."
> 
> In fact, illegal crossings dropped by 95% in Yuma after that barrier went up. Acting DHS Secretary Elaine Duke says "crime has significantly decreased in the Yuma area."
> 
> Likewise, illegal crossings into San Diego, El Paso, Texas, and Tucson, Ariz., plunged once physical barriers were in place.


Related, too:

Democrats Contradict Pelosi and Schumer, Say Border Barrier Would Be ‘Useful’



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) are adamant that a wall on the border would be “ineffective,” but several Democrats recently indicated that fencing along the border would be useful, Breitbart reports:
> 
> 
> 
> “If we have a partial wall, if we have fencing, if we have technology used to keep our border safe, all of that is fine,” Rep. Cheri Bustos (D-IL), the chairwoman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), said on CNN.
> 
> Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) also backed a barrier along the U.S. border with Mexico.
> 
> “Some fencing is useful, some barriers are useful,” Merkley said. “There’s a lot of surveillance technology. I’ve been to some cities on the border that have triple fencing and have more personnel and have the technology to see the people moving in the middle of the night.”
> 
> Reps. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) and Jerry Nadler (D-NY)–the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee–said they would support fencing and barriers where necessary along the border.​


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk about the need for that wall s'more.

Illegal Alien Arrested For Alleged Assault Of 11-Year-Old Had Been Deported Multiple Times



> Illegal immigrant Jose Manuel Tiscareno Hernandez, 31, has been arrested in Conroe, Texas, for the alleged aggravated sexual assault of an 11-year-old child.
> 
> ...
> 
> Hernandez is presently being held in Montgomery County Jail on account of his immigration status, as well as his alleged sexual assault of a minor, according to the Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office. Hernandez’s victim “was 11 years old when the abuse started.”


Related:

Silence of the Moms: Media Refuse to Discuss Angel Families, Victims of Illegal Alien Crimes



> Since January 1, neither CNN nor MSNBC has booked a single “Angel Mom” — mothers of children brutally murdered by illegal aliens — as guests on their networks, per an analysis conducted by the Republican National Committee (RNC).
> 
> The RNC told Breitbart News it has tracked both networks since the beginning of the year as they intensely bash President Donald Trump over the government shutdown that is now the longest ever in the history of the United States. Since the turn of the year to 2019 from 2018, neither network has conducted a single interview with any family members of victims of illegal alien crimes.
> 
> The Angel Moms, or Angel Families, are the surviving family members of those Americans who were tragically killed by illegal aliens. Their plight is a particularly vivid illustration of the effects of unfettered illegal immigration. Had the federal government enforced immigration law and removed the illegal aliens who committed these heinous crimes before they committed them, the crimes never would have happened and their loved ones would presumably still be alive today.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Activists Jump Nancy Pelosi’s Mansion Wall With Illegal Immigrants, Demand Entry To Her Home



> Right-wing activists stormed the security wall surrounding House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s California mansion and demanded access into the building Monday.
> 
> The group was led by Laura Loomer, an activist who has been at the center of many stunts, including interrupting congressional hearings and chaining herself to the doors of Twitter’s New York offices.
> 
> Loomer was joined by a small group of alleged illegal immigrants from Guatemala. Loomer and her accomplices carried a large banner with the faces of notable Americans who have been killed by illegal immigrant crime over the recent years attached to its surface.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

I bet Nancy's dentures were clattering like those wind-up ones from a dime store...


----------



## FeXL

FBI's Pretext for Opening an Investigation Into Trump? The Theory (Quite Possibly Championed by James Comey) That Putin Called Trump to Tell Him "Fire That Son-of-a-Bitch Patriot and Righteous Beacon James Comey!!!"



> Unbelievable. The top echelons of the FBI, which themselves were threatened with the _kompromat_ that they had engaged previously in illegal operations against a presidential candidate, decided that they had to investigated a Putin-Trump connection on the theory that _James Comey_ was such a righteous warrior for America that Putin himself directed Donald Trump to fire him.
> 
> Hey -- you don't know for _certain_ that it _didn't_ happen that way until you investigate, _riiiiight_?


Related:

ABCNews' Jonathan Karl Hears From Mueller's Camp The The Russia Report Might Be "Anti-Climactic"



> Do tell!
> 
> You mean the people who were telling us three years ago that anyone who believed in an evidence-free conspiracy theory was unfit to be elevated to a position of public prominence now turn out to have falsely, stupidly believed in an evidence-free conspiracy theory for these same past three years?!


----------



## FeXL

More on the shutdown.

Senior Official in the Trump Administration: Keep the Shutdown Going. We're Getting A Lot More Done Without #TheResistance Sabotaging Us At Every Step.



> *Only senior officials are at work in many departments, which means #TheResistance of do-nothing bureaucrats -- who are actually doing something under Trump, to wit, subverting and sabotaging his orders -- aren't present.*
> 
> _...Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them..._​


Bold mine.

Now there's _two_ good reasons to make the shutdown last as long as possible.

The only issue is, once Nancy figgers out the resistance is no longer in place, she's going to cave like a fat kid being offered a Twinkie...


----------



## CubaMark

Heh heh heh

_"hamberders" _

heh heh heh


----------



## CubaMark

*Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Secures Prime Committee Spot, Proves That Grassroots Power Matters*

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has secured a seat on the powerful House Financial Services Committee, which oversees Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Ocasio-Cortez took to Twitter to confirm the news Tuesday night with a message reading:

_Financial Services is one of just four exclusive committees in the House. It oversees big banks, lending, & the financial sector.I am very grateful for the opportunity to sit on this committee as a freshman, and look forward to working under the leadership of @RepMaxineWaters! https://t.co/kIq5iDcrTV

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) January 16, 2019​_
It is exceedingly rare for first-year members of Congress to be placed on House committees as powerful as the Financial Services Committee. The appointment represents a vote of confidence from party leadership after Ocasio-Cortez was left off the House Ways and Means Committee, which oversees economic policy issues like taxes and spending.

The Financial Services Committee is one of the most government’s most powerful regulating bodies when it comes to Wall Street. It played a key role in the formation of the historic Dodd-Frank legislation that aimed to secure the country’s financial sector after the crash in 2008.

Ocasio-Cortez’s appointment makes her one of the most left-leaning committee members when it comes to economic policy and Wall Street. She ran her 2018 campaign without the help of corporate donors, and made breaking up big banks a central point in her platform along with sweeping economic reforms like the Green New Deal.

(PasteMagazine)​


----------



## FeXL

What could possibly go wrong?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Related:

Senate Democrats Frustrated Over Ocasio-Cortez Becoming Face of Democratic Party



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.), who was sworn into Congress for the first time less than two weeks ago, is already facing scrutiny from some Democratic senators who say her views don't represent those of their constituents.
> 
> Over the course of the last couple weeks, Ocasio-Cortez has accused Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, of "death," castigated the media and fact checkers for their coverage of her, and proposed a 70 percent tax rate for the wealthy. Centrist Democrats are worried about the party adopting these and other controversial positions for their platform, saying it will hurt their chances for reelection in upcoming races, the _Hill_ reports.


Just because she's approaching nearly Marxist enough for you, Fanboi, doesn't mean anybody else likes her.

Personally, I think she's great. For both comic relief & the GOP... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> _It oversees big banks, lending, & the financial sector._


----------



## FeXL

Further on the FIB.

Walls Are Closing in on the FBI—and Its Media Accomplices



> Barr has his work cut out for him, and no time to waste. His inspector general now is working on a report about FISA abuse at the agency related to the 2016 election; the new attorney general should also disclose to the public the numerous FBI agents who improperly received gifts from reporters. (We want names.) Not one law enforcement or intelligence official has been identified or charged with illegally leaking classified information on Michael Flynn or Carter Page: Those disclosures are felonies.
> 
> As I wrote Monday, the Trump-Russia collusion peddlers are in the throes of death spasms after the Times article, desperate to keep their charade alive. But that manufactured scandal is in its final stages while the real scandal looks like it will finally get the attention by the nation’s top lawyer that it deserves.
> 
> To borrow a well-worn line of the so-called #Resistance, “the walls are closing in.”


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the wall s'more!

Victims Of Illegal Immigration Storm Pelosi’s Office, Chant 'Build The Wall'



> Families who have been impacted by crimes committed by illegal aliens stormed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office on Tuesday, demanding that the California Democrat "build the wall."
> 
> Pelosi reportedly refused to meet with the families, who have lost family members to illegal aliens, which comes as Democrats have refused to work with the Trump administration to provide national security funding to secure the southern border.


More:



> This is the second incident Pelosi has had to deal with this week as right-wing activist Laura Loomer brought a group of alleged illegal aliens to Pelosi's home in California on Monday.
> 
> *"Come on, you can't say everyone is welcome here and then lock your door," Loomer said, adding: "only bigots lock their doors."*


Bold mine.

You go, Laura!!!


----------



## FeXL

What's this? :yikes:

Pink Pussy Hats no longer nouveau?

Shocka...

DNC Withdraws Its Sponsorship of the Women’s March



> *The Democratic National Committee has withdrawn its sponsorship of the Women's March, amidst controversy over the ties of the group's co-chairs to Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and allegations of anti-Semitism.*
> 
> The DNC joins other groups that have withdrawn sponsorship, such as the Southern Poverty Law Center and EMILY’s List, Jewish News Syndicate reports. The National Organization for Women and the NAACP also appear to have removed their official support for the Women's March.
> 
> Tali Goldsheft, a Brooklyn-based critic of the Women's March leaders, said on Twitter that about 300 other groups are no longer listed as partners with the march.


Bold mine.

'Magine that...

Related:

Major Liberal Groups Walk Away From the Women’s March, But Very Quietly



> After claims of anti-Semitism against the leaders of Women’s March Inc. rocked the movement—including a blockbuster report in Tablet magazine—hundreds of activist groups that previously partnered with the march have headed for the exits ahead of this year’s events. It may be the biggest silent protest the normally noisy left has staged in decades.
> 
> Tali Goldsheft, the Brooklyn photographer who organized a petition calling for the resignation of the march’s leaders, flagged the mass exodus on Twitter. The march’s current partners’ list is missing many of the group’s high-profile partners from 2017, including: the AFL-CIO; the SEIU (and 1199 SEIU, the nation’s largest health-care union); Amnesty International USA; the NAACP; the National Council of Jewish Women; NARAL; EMILY’s List; GLAAD; the Human Rights Campaign; the Southern Poverty Law Center; the National Resources Defense Council; Greenpeace USA; OXFAM; Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense; and the Center for American Progress.


Huh. So quietly you'd almost think they were embarrassed or hiding something...


----------



## Macfury

I wish she had been placed on Ways and Means. That way she could have been even more visible as Trump vetoes anything that comes out of there.



CubaMark said:


> *Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Secures Prime Committee Spot, Proves That Grassroots Power Matters*


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I wish she had been placed on Ways and Means.


What I find interesting is that suddenly CM endorses _grassroots politics_... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

The Left and the Media (BIRM) Attack Karen Pence for Teaching at a Christian School, But They're Totally Not Anti-Christian



> Will they be also attacking Muslim schools which also require an adherence to traditionalist mores about sexuality?
> 
> Or is it just the Christian religion that is to be attacked without pause?


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Angel Moms.

Angel Moms -- Parents of Children Slain by Illegals -- Protest in Nancy Pelosi's Office; Pelosi Refuses to Even Meet with Them



> Meet with American citizens over their concerns? What an outdated idea. The only people whose concerns matter to the modern Democrat party are foreigners, preferably those breaking US laws.
> 
> "It's a slap, it's a stab, it's a kick in the gut, in the groin," Sabine Durden, whose son Dominic was struck dead in 2012 by an illegal alien, said of Pelosi's and other Democrats' decision not to meet with Angel Mothers.​


Related:

Mo Brooks: Democrats ‘Aiding and Abetting’ 2K Illegal Alien Killings Every Year



> Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) says Democrats have “aided and abetted” the deaths of about 2,000 Americans every year at the hands of illegal aliens due to their support for open borders and mass illegal immigration.


"IF IT SAVES JUST 2000 LIVES A YEAR!!! SOME OF WHICH MIGHT ACTUALLY BE DEM VOTERS!!!"

Right. Forgot. With up to 30 million illegal alien voters, who gives a damn about a couple thousand lost Dem votes...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What I find interesting is that suddenly CM endorses _grassroots politics_... :lmao:


Doesn't like any American pols, but he seems to have found his sweetheart among them.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Doesn't like any American pols, but he seems to have found his sweetheart among them.


Bug eyes, buck teeth, big rack, no brain. I can understand the attraction...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Heh heh heh
> 
> 
> 
> _"hamberders" _
> 
> 
> 
> heh heh heh




My iPhone has a spell check built in. Doesn’t his?


----------



## Macfury

Why would he use it, when he can troll the news cycle of the lazy media and its lackeys any time he chooses?



Freddie_Biff said:


> My iPhone has a spell check built in. Doesn’t his?


----------



## CubaMark

A family member has to fly through the USA in a few days.... where Air Traffic Controllers haven't been paid in 27 days. They're literally receiving pay stubs with $0.00 printed.

*'The price to pay': Inside a D.C. airport as the U.S. shutdown grinds on*

_Farrar's colleagues are like family to him. But he worries they're being treated like collateral damage in an ongoing stalemate over funding for U.S. President Donald Trump's wall.

"What you see happening across the river, that's like they're messing with the people you know and love."

Daycare costs, grocery bills, gasoline expenses, mortgages — his colleagues are taking it all on without a steady income for now. Farrar, 30, has a 12-month-old baby and is supporting his wife through medical school. 

[....]

"Our air-traffic controllers have a huge responsibility of ensuring the safety of the flying public. These unnecessary distractions of not being able to pay for daycare, not knowing when my next cheque will be, what am I going to do if I don't pay the mortgage — that's just not going to help us do the job that we're trusted to do."

[....]

creening times at Reagan have been manageable so far, but the prospect of TSA staffers working for a fourth week without pay is worrisome for TSA lead screening officer Rachel Abraham. She was busy carting 20 boxes of pizza to her colleagues at the end of her shift — food donated by a friend.

[...]

Down near a designated pre-security concourse in Terminal C, air-traffic controller Chris Schreiber was handing out NATCA "Stop the shutdown!" leaflets.

One pilot for a major U.S. carrier stopped to chat.

"These guys are like the heart for the human body," the pilot, who asked not to be named, said after taking a pamphlet. "This whole [shutdown] is bull****." 

The air-traffic controllers union represents 3,000 aviation safety professionals who have been furloughed, among them staff support specialists and engineers. Those absences can weaken the aviation system.

"You wouldn't send a surgeon in to do an operation without the nurses and the people he or she needs to perform a safe operation," said Scott Davis, another controller who distributed NATCA literature.

"It's kind of the same way. We're showing up, plugging in our headsets and working the planes every day. But we don't have those people doing quality assurance, the technical people, people to go with for payroll questions, health-benefit questions."

The number of fully certified air-traffic controllers are already operating at 30-year staffing lows. Davis has been working six-day weeks for the past year-and-a-half due to the staffing shortage.

In the meantime, the shutdown has also closed the Federal Aviation Authority's Academy, meaning fewer qualified controllers will be able to help replenish the workforce.

Controllers warned that the FAA has stopped issuing directives that mandate safety fixes for existing aircraft; that special workgroups aren't meeting during the shutdown to discuss new safety procedures; and that maintenance delays could lead to malfunctioning technologies._
(CBC)​


----------



## CubaMark

What on earth is Trump thinking, keeping this senile hairball of hate and idiocy on his legal team? :lmao:

Trump lawyer Rudolph Giuliani insists they never denied collusion with Russia

Interviewed by CNN's Chris Cuomo, Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani all but admits what everyone assumes: that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian government in the 2016 presidential election.

Rudolph Giuliani: "I never stated there was no collusion between the campaign or people in the campaign."

CNN: "Yes you have."

Rudolph Giuliani: "I have not. I said there is not a single bit of evidence that the POTUS committed the only crime you could commit here, conspiring with the Russians to hack the DNC."​




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






Trump has, of course, relentlessly denied any collusion whatsoever.

The weird thing about the goalposts being moved is that it really does mean there's no goal. The thing you thought was a real problem for Trump—being forced to admit what he has always denied about his campaign's links to the Russian government—will turn out to be just another news cycle.

(BoingBoing)​


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> A family member has to fly through the USA in a few days.... where Air Traffic Controllers haven't been paid in 27 days. They're literally receiving pay stubs with $0.00 printed.
> 
> *'The price to pay': Inside a D.C. airport as the U.S. shutdown grinds on*
> 
> _Farrar's colleagues are like family to him. But he worries they're being treated like collateral damage in an ongoing stalemate over funding for U.S. President Donald Trump's wall.
> 
> "What you see happening across the river, that's like they're messing with the people you know and love."
> 
> Daycare costs, grocery bills, gasoline expenses, mortgages — his colleagues are taking it all on without a steady income for now. Farrar, 30, has a 12-month-old baby and is supporting his wife through medical school.
> 
> [....]
> 
> "Our air-traffic controllers have a huge responsibility of ensuring the safety of the flying public. These unnecessary distractions of not being able to pay for daycare, not knowing when my next cheque will be, what am I going to do if I don't pay the mortgage — that's just not going to help us do the job that we're trusted to do."
> 
> [....]
> 
> creening times at Reagan have been manageable so far, but the prospect of TSA staffers working for a fourth week without pay is worrisome for TSA lead screening officer Rachel Abraham. She was busy carting 20 boxes of pizza to her colleagues at the end of her shift — food donated by a friend.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Down near a designated pre-security concourse in Terminal C, air-traffic controller Chris Schreiber was handing out NATCA "Stop the shutdown!" leaflets.
> 
> One pilot for a major U.S. carrier stopped to chat.
> 
> "These guys are like the heart for the human body," the pilot, who asked not to be named, said after taking a pamphlet. "This whole [shutdown] is bull****."
> 
> The air-traffic controllers union represents 3,000 aviation safety professionals who have been furloughed, among them staff support specialists and engineers. Those absences can weaken the aviation system.
> 
> "You wouldn't send a surgeon in to do an operation without the nurses and the people he or she needs to perform a safe operation," said Scott Davis, another controller who distributed NATCA literature.
> 
> "It's kind of the same way. We're showing up, plugging in our headsets and working the planes every day. But we don't have those people doing quality assurance, the technical people, people to go with for payroll questions, health-benefit questions."
> 
> The number of fully certified air-traffic controllers are already operating at 30-year staffing lows. Davis has been working six-day weeks for the past year-and-a-half due to the staffing shortage.
> 
> In the meantime, the shutdown has also closed the Federal Aviation Authority's Academy, meaning fewer qualified controllers will be able to help replenish the workforce.
> 
> Controllers warned that the FAA has stopped issuing directives that mandate safety fixes for existing aircraft; that special workgroups aren't meeting during the shutdown to discuss new safety procedures; and that maintenance delays could lead to malfunctioning technologies._
> (CBC)​


It is pretty crazy the whole situation and I feel bad for those who depend on their pay checks. The bank or land lords or anyone else is going to wait to get paid. What is really sad is that by the end of this week (I think, going off memory) the lock out will have cost more than what Trump is asking for.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> It is pretty crazy the whole situation and I feel bad for those who depend on their pay checks. The bank or land lords or anyone else is going to wait to get paid. What is really sad is that by the end of this week (I think, going off memory) the lock out will have cost more than what Trump is asking for.


Most of the furloughed workers are non-essential and shouldn't be employed by government to begin with. They are costing taxpayers many times the cost of the wall.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> A family member has to fly through the USA in a few days.... where Air Traffic Controllers haven't been paid in 27 days. They're literally receiving pay stubs with $0.00 printed.
> 
> 
> 
> *'The price to pay': Inside a D.C. airport as the U.S. shutdown grinds on*
> 
> 
> 
> _Farrar's colleagues are like family to him. But he worries they're being treated like collateral damage in an ongoing stalemate over funding for U.S. President Donald Trump's wall.
> 
> 
> 
> "What you see happening across the river, that's like they're messing with the people you know and love."
> 
> 
> 
> Daycare costs, grocery bills, gasoline expenses, mortgages — his colleagues are taking it all on without a steady income for now. Farrar, 30, has a 12-month-old baby and is supporting his wife through medical school.
> 
> 
> 
> [....]
> 
> 
> 
> "Our air-traffic controllers have a huge responsibility of ensuring the safety of the flying public. These unnecessary distractions of not being able to pay for daycare, not knowing when my next cheque will be, what am I going to do if I don't pay the mortgage — that's just not going to help us do the job that we're trusted to do."
> 
> 
> 
> [....]
> 
> 
> 
> creening times at Reagan have been manageable so far, but the prospect of TSA staffers working for a fourth week without pay is worrisome for TSA lead screening officer Rachel Abraham. She was busy carting 20 boxes of pizza to her colleagues at the end of her shift — food donated by a friend.
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> Down near a designated pre-security concourse in Terminal C, air-traffic controller Chris Schreiber was handing out NATCA "Stop the shutdown!" leaflets.
> 
> 
> 
> One pilot for a major U.S. carrier stopped to chat.
> 
> 
> 
> "These guys are like the heart for the human body," the pilot, who asked not to be named, said after taking a pamphlet. "This whole [shutdown] is bull****."
> 
> 
> 
> The air-traffic controllers union represents 3,000 aviation safety professionals who have been furloughed, among them staff support specialists and engineers. Those absences can weaken the aviation system.
> 
> 
> 
> "You wouldn't send a surgeon in to do an operation without the nurses and the people he or she needs to perform a safe operation," said Scott Davis, another controller who distributed NATCA literature.
> 
> 
> 
> "It's kind of the same way. We're showing up, plugging in our headsets and working the planes every day. But we don't have those people doing quality assurance, the technical people, people to go with for payroll questions, health-benefit questions."
> 
> 
> 
> The number of fully certified air-traffic controllers are already operating at 30-year staffing lows. Davis has been working six-day weeks for the past year-and-a-half due to the staffing shortage.
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime, the shutdown has also closed the Federal Aviation Authority's Academy, meaning fewer qualified controllers will be able to help replenish the workforce.
> 
> 
> 
> Controllers warned that the FAA has stopped issuing directives that mandate safety fixes for existing aircraft; that special workgroups aren't meeting during the shutdown to discuss new safety procedures; and that maintenance delays could lead to malfunctioning technologies._
> 
> (CBC)​




It’s unbelievable that this shutdown is all due to one man’s hubris.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s unbelievable that this shutdown is all due to one man’s hubris.


I would say that is an extremely simplistic view. There are 2 parties both refusing to budge. This will cost more then the 5 billion asked for soon.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> I would say that is an extremely simplistic view. There are 2 parties both refusing to budge. This will cost more then the 5 billion asked for soon.


No, that's not it at all. There have been House votes to open government again department-by-department, but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R, of course) is refusing to allow the vote to come to the Senate (there are, apparently, enough Republicans siding with the Democrats to get things moving). The Republicans - in the embodiment of McConnell - are the ones refusing to budge:

*Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's "Where's Mitch" Updates Let You Follow Her Efforts To End The Shutdown*

On Wednesday evening, the current Senate Majority Leader unexpectedly became the subject of a viral Twitter trend. Before long, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's "Where's Mitch" updates spread like wildfire across the internet, as the lawmaker documented her efforts to find McConnell. Her goal was to demand that he introduce House-approved government shutdown legislation on the Senate floor.
The hashtag was born in Ocasio-Cortez's video that she released to Twitter and her Instagram Story on Wednesday night. In the video, she showed that she and a group of freshmen Congress members were looking for McConnell. Soon after, Ocasio-Cortez released a tweet which read,

*800,000 workers are missing their paychecks and we’re pushing to get them paid ASAP. We’re here doing our job - the House has voted to reopen government whole or in part several times - so why can’t we find GOP Senators to ask them do theirs? #WheresMitch
Following that tweet, Ocasio-Cortez tweeted again, "He’s not in the cloak room, He’s not in the Capitol, He’s not in the Russel building, He’s not on the floor of the Senate.... And 800,000 people still don’t have their paychecks - so #WheresMitch?"*​
Other politicians quickly joined on the #WheresMitch bandwagon. Rep. Eric Swalwell tweeted, "Love playing hide and seek with the kids. Never thought it would be happening in Congress with @Senatemajldr. #WheresMitch?"

(Bustle)​


----------



## Macfury

Cortez knows her marginalized audience.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Cortez knows her marginalized audience.


"marginalized" = 800,000 federal workers who aren't getting paycheques, plus all of the private businesses whose existence depends upon servicing those government departments that are not operating? You have an interesting definition of "marginal"





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Then shut down the airports.



CubaMark said:


> A family member has to fly through the USA in a few days.... where Air Traffic Controllers haven't been paid in 27 days.


----------



## FeXL

That's precisely it.

Not only that, but rebellious Dems are starting to pop up, much to Nancy Palsi's dismay.

As to, "Where's Mitch", perhaps he's in Hawaii with all the CA Dems & the utility executives...



CubaMark said:


> No, that's not it at all.


----------



## Macfury

Most of those people should be let go. Businesses who rely on servicing government departments should adjust to doing meaningful work.



CubaMark said:


> "marginalized" = 800,000 federal workers who aren't getting paycheques, plus all of the private businesses whose existence depends upon servicing those government departments that are not operating? You have an interesting definition of "marginal"


----------



## FeXL

Not all of which support the Dems.

And, _and_, where's your criticism of the Dem politicos who have steadfastly refused to not get paid because it's all _merely a distraction_?



CubaMark said:


> "marginalized" = 800,000 federal workers who aren't getting paycheques


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Most of those people should be let go.


I read a news article earlier this week that noted after a 30 day furlough, they could all be laid off.

Wanna see the Dems cave overnite? beejacon


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I would say that is an extremely simplistic view. There are 2 parties both refusing to budge. This will cost more then the 5 billion asked for soon.




It’s only one party that decided to shutdown the government and hold 800,000 government workers ransom. I think you know his name: Individual 1.


----------



## Macfury

There are three. Two of them can end it by simply funding the wall.

However, the shutdown is largely a positive event.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s only one party that decided to shutdown the government and hold 800,000 government workers ransom. I think you know his name: Individual 1.


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of positive events!

Trump to Pelosi: Owing to the Government Shutdown, I'm Deplatforming You From Using US Military Aircraft for Your Vacation and Campaigning Travel



> *This is fantastic.*
> 
> I can't wait to hear the wailing from the cucks. The screeching that by treating Nancy Pelosi to the _exact same_ level of contempt she's shown to him he has "violated sacred norms" that require "men" to behave like sissies.


Bold mine.

Yes. Yes, it is...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Surprised this got published in _USA Today_.

Donald Trump is a symptom of a new kind of class warfare raging at home and abroad



> To understand events around the world today, one must think in terms of the class struggle.
> 
> This sentence sounds like something that could be written by a doctrinaire Marxist. But it is nonetheless true. Much of the current tension in America and in many other democracies is in fact a product of a class struggle. It’s not the kind of class struggle that Karl Marx wrote about, with workers and peasants facing off against rapacious capitalists, but it is a case of today’s ruling class facing disaffection from its working class.


----------



## FeXL

Bet that left a mark.

Democrats Finally Acknowledge That Voter Fraud Exists



> Notably, in early 2017 then-House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi mocked President Trump’s claim that voter fraud occurred in the 2016 presidential election. She called his focus on voter fraud “really strange,” adding, “I frankly feel very sad for the president making this claim.” She asked Republicans to join her in declaring that “we have confidence in our system and that we always respect the results of the election.”
> 
> She’s singing a different tune now. As Speaker of the House, she is closely watching the election dispute in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District. More than two months after the election, the outcome is still in doubt. Incumbent Republican Mark Harris leads Democrat Dan McCready in the unofficial vote count by 905 votes, but there are credible allegations that a contractor working for the Harris campaign harvested absentee ballots and failed to deliver ballots that were likely cast for McCready. The State Board of Elections declined to certify the election result in the wake of the November election, and a new Board will resume investigating the election later in January.
> 
> But the final decision rests with the United States House of Representatives, which can decline to seat any Member. Speaker Pelosi has suddenly developed a very keen interest in the problem of voter fraud. She recently described just how fundamental the problem of voter fraud is: “This is bigger than that one seat. This is about undermining the integrity of our elections. … What was done there was so remarkable, in that that person, those entities, got away with that.” Get ready for her coming conclusion that the alleged voter fraud is undeniable.


Riiiiight. But it only becomes an issue when the threat is against a Dem...


----------



## FeXL

So, CM, is this another case of religious non-religion? Or non-religious religion?

FBI Arrests Man Suspected of Plotting Attack on White House with Explosives



> A Georgia man has been arrested by the FBI on suspicion of planning an attack Thursday on the White House and federal buildings in Washington, D.C.
> 
> The suspect, 21-year-old Hasher Jallal Taheb, allegedly possessed a “hand-drawn diagram” of the West Wing’s ground floor and planned to equip a backpack with explosives and approach the White House “from the back road, causing a distraction for police, and then proceeding into [it]” to launch an attack. The suspect also allegedly planned attacks on the Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, and a “specific synagogue,” which was not named in the court filing.


And, while we're talking about religious non-religions & non-religious religions, which of them is responsible for clit-clipping, misogyny, child-marriages & the tossing of gays off rooftops, among other things?

Are these all just minor faults from impressionable young men falling under the spell of extremists, too?

Or is it just fukcing Islam, period?

Related:

2,000 Muslim Child Marriage Immigration Cases in 10 Years



> *378 petitions were filed to marry 10-year-old girls and younger. *


Emphasis mine.

More:



> Naila Amin was only thirteen years old when she was married off to her Pakistani first cousin twice her age who beat and raped her. “He dragged me about twenty feet - the whole length of the house - by my hair,” she relates. “He began kicking me in the head and it was so hard I saw stars.”
> 
> She described how, “My mother would watch my husband and my father kick me together in the head.”
> 
> Even though Nalia was a United States citizen, she was engaged to be married when she was eight years old. And at thirteen, her application to bring her rapist to the United States was approved by USCIS.
> 
> By the age of fifteen, she was being raped and beaten in Pakistan.
> 
> While Nalia is the youngest of the “child brides” in the Senate report, “How the U.S. Immigration System Encourages Child Marriages”, the young abused American citizen is one of thousands of young girls who are either trafficked into this country or who are used to bring their older “husbands” to America.


----------



## FeXL

Update to Trump stopping Pelosi's flight in a military plane. Apparently they were already on a bus heading to departure.

:clap::clap::clap:

The Rise of American Fascism, Part IV: Making Democrats Take Uber



> Update: from Lady in Black --
> 
> 196 Reporters gathered outside @PressSec's office just asked why Trump sent the letter: "We want to keep her in Washington. If she leaves she guarantees that the second round of paychecks to workers won't go out."​


More:



> Oh. My. God.
> 
> The bus full of congressional Democrats had already *LEFT* the Capitol on it's way to a military jet to fly to Europe.
> 
> They were *en route* when they heard that Trump had canceled their trip.
> 
> Bus forced to turn around
> 
> Members "furious"
> 
> (Video via @Emilylgoodin) pic.twitter.com/rxqYOzjyst
> — Benny (@bennyjohnson) January 17, 2019​


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Related:


----------



## CubaMark

Interesting how Giuliani's flip-flop on the Russia collusion thing was just completely ignored by the usual suspects in here....

Typical. :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_One thing I'll give Trump credit for... he has created the conditions for racists and bigots of all types to reveal themselves and act openly, so that we can all see what we've suspected. This was yesterday in the US House of Representatives:_

*House floor erupts after lawmaker shouts ‘Go back to Puerto Rico’*

The House floor erupted Thursday after Congress adjourned for the week when an unidentified Republican congressman yelled a controversial and potentially racially charged remark across the aisle as Democratic Rep. Tony Cárdenas was at the podium.

“Go back to Puerto Rico!” the lawmaker shouted, punctuating a stream of Republican whooping and hollering at the Democratic majority for holding a voice vote — instead of the normal roll call vote — to pass a continuing resolution that would reopen nine Cabinet departments through Feb. 28

[....]

The C-SPAN cameras were still rolling when the commotion over the Puerto Rico comment broke out. But it would be nearly impossible to definitively identify who shouted the remark because multiple Republican members were murmuring or shouting at the time and the comment came from someone who was not at a microphone or the podium.

“We’ve been called names and been told to go back to Mexico, go back to whatever, so many times,” Rep. Sylvia Garcia said. “It’s just unfortunate that it would happen on the floor of the House of Representatives.”
(MSN)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Interesting how Giuliani's flip-flop on the Russia collusion thing was just completely ignored by the usual suspects in here....
> 
> 
> 
> Typical. :lmao:




I’ll say. Where’s the hue and cry about that?


----------



## Macfury

Don't be a fool. Democrats were partying in Puerto Rico for the past week.



CubaMark said:


> _One thing I'll give Trump credit for... he has created the conditions for racists and bigots of all types to reveal themselves and act openly, so that we can all see what we've suspected. This was yesterday in the US House of Representatives:_
> 
> *House floor erupts after lawmaker shouts ‘Go back to Puerto Rico’*
> 
> The House floor erupted Thursday after Congress adjourned for the week when an unidentified Republican congressman yelled a controversial and potentially racially charged remark across the aisle as Democratic Rep. Tony Cárdenas was at the podium.
> 
> “Go back to Puerto Rico!” the lawmaker shouted, punctuating a stream of Republican whooping and hollering at the Democratic majority for holding a voice vote — instead of the normal roll call vote — to pass a continuing resolution that would reopen nine Cabinet departments through Feb. 28
> 
> [....]
> 
> The C-SPAN cameras were still rolling when the commotion over the Puerto Rico comment broke out. But it would be nearly impossible to definitively identify who shouted the remark because multiple Republican members were murmuring or shouting at the time and the comment came from someone who was not at a microphone or the podium.
> 
> “We’ve been called names and been told to go back to Mexico, go back to whatever, so many times,” Rep. Sylvia Garcia said. “It’s just unfortunate that it would happen on the floor of the House of Representatives.”
> (MSN)​


----------



## Macfury

Doesn't mean anything to me. I don't know even know what "colluding" with Russians means in a legal context.

Is it turning your crank?



CubaMark said:


> Interesting how Giuliani's flip-flop on the Russia collusion thing was just completely ignored by the usual suspects in here....
> 
> Typical. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

What flip-flop?



CubaMark said:


> Interesting how Giuliani's flip-flop on the Russia collusion thing...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Don't be a fool. Democrats were partying in Puerto Rico for the past week.


D'oh!!!


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s only one party that decided to shutdown the government and hold 800,000 government workers ransom. I think you know his name: Individual 1.


So lets see, by refusing the funds they will cost far more then the 5 billion Trump wants. Forbes is saying in the 10's of billions. 

So obviously it cannot really be a money thing or they would stop and give the money Trump wants.

Is it strictly a perception thing? People seem to think a wall is racist somehow. Protecting and securing a border from illegal entry is not racist. You may not agree that it is the best plan, but that is all you can really say about it. So give the 5 billion, if it is an utter failure you get to bring that up over and over again for elections or whatever else you want.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> So lets see, by refusing the funds they will cost far more then the 5 billion Trump wants. Forbes is saying in the 10's of billions.
> 
> 
> 
> So obviously it cannot really be a money thing or they would stop and give the money Trump wants.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it strictly a perception thing? People seem to think a wall is racist somehow. Protecting and securing a border from illegal entry is not racist. You may not agree that it is the best plan, but that is all you can really say about it. So give the 5 billion, if it is an utter failure you get to bring that up over and over again for elections or whatever else you want.




Trump promised a wall to his supporters, not to Congress or Americans in the whole. Congress has no obligation to vote in favour of something they oppose in principle. Trump is being a big baby trying to force his way and he doesn’t care how many real Americans he hurts with this shutdown. This is all on him. A wise person does not negotiate with a terrorist, which is exactly what Trump is equivalent to with his holding the country ransom unless he gets his way. Pelosi was right to cancel his State if the Union address. Dude needs to grow up, but it ain’t happening anytime soon.


----------



## Macfury

So when the Democrats fashioned the current spending bill, they were terrorists? And defending the border is also terrorist? Is this some sort of progressive logic?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump promised a wall to his supporters, not to Congress or Americans in the whole. Congress has no obligation to vote in favour of something they oppose in principle. Trump is being a big baby trying to force his way and he doesn’t care how many real Americans he hurts with this shutdown. This is all on him. A wise person does not negotiate with a terrorist, which is exactly what Trump is equivalent to with his holding the country ransom unless he gets his way. Pelosi was right to cancel his State if the Union address. Dude needs to grow up, but it ain’t happening anytime soon.


----------



## CubaMark

This is all such a waste of time.

Trump's wall is nothing more than an inane promise made to his low-information base. It will do nothing to curb real or perceived illegal immigration. The vast (VAST) majority of persons in the USA without immigration clearance are people who have overstayed their visas. A wall will not stop them. The vast majority of drug shipments to the USA come via legal points of entry (airports, ports, border control stations). A wall will do nothing to curb this. Nothing. There have been zero terrorists arrested at the southern border, according to the Dept. of Homeland Security (as noted previously, but ignored by the usual suspects). A wall will do *nothing* to stop persons who wish to do harm to the USA in any way, shape or form. Nothing.

It's an enormous waste of money thrown at a problem in exactly the wrong ways to address that problem, but to a certain slice of the American electorate and to others who you'd think would know better, it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors, pom-pom shaking, or as a certain bard once wrote, much _ado about nothing_.

I could give a rat's ass if the wall is built. It will continue to add to the US deficit, but it will do nothing to deter people who want to cross the Mexico-US border. It is a symbol of one man's hubris, and nothing more.


----------



## Macfury

Suddenly, when it's a wall across the Mexican border, CM goes all gaga about government wasting money. Green energy boondoggles built on the hubris of Gaia worshippers get a free pass.



CubaMark said:


> This is all such a waste of time.
> 
> Trump's wall is nothing more than an inane promise made to his low-information base. It will do nothing to curb real or perceived illegal immigration. The vast (VAST) majority of persons in the USA without immigration clearance are people who have overstayed their visas. A wall will not stop them. The vast majority of drug shipments to the USA come via legal points of entry (airports, ports, border control stations). A wall will do nothing to curb this. Nothing. There have been zero terrorists arrested at the southern border, according to the Dept. of Homeland Security (as noted previously, but ignored by the usual suspects). A wall will do *nothing* to stop persons who wish to do harm to the USA in any way, shape or form. Nothing.
> 
> It's an enormous waste of money thrown at a problem in exactly the wrong ways to address that problem, but to a certain slice of the American electorate and to others who you'd think would know better, it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors, pom-pom shaking, or as a certain bard once wrote, much _ado about nothing_.
> 
> I could give a rat's ass if the wall is built. It will continue to add to the US deficit, but it will do nothing to deter people who want to cross the Mexico-US border. It is a symbol of one man's hubris, and nothing more.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> So when the Democrats fashioned the current spending bill, they were terrorists? And defending the border is also terrorist? Is this some sort of progressive logic?


This is _progressive thinking_ at its finest... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

More _progressive thinking_ on display.

You Know BuzzFeed's "HUGE SCOOP" That NeverTrumpers Like John Podhoretz Spent All Day Jacking Themselves Off To? Mueller's Office Has Made the "Rare" Move of Specifically Denying That Report



> But NeverTrump, which claims to be "The Intellectual Wing of the Conservative Movement," can't help falling every time for conspiracy theories that would have made Richard Mellon Scaife blush in embarrassment.


Related:

Your Moral And Intellectual Superiors



> An absolute disaster for BuzzFeed and much of the media.
> 
> A so-called ‘bombshell’ story by BuzzFeed, claiming that Donald Trump ordered Michael Cohen to lie to Congress, has been directly debunked by the office of Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
> 
> For about 24 hours, almost the entire media were breathlessly reporting on the story, claiming that impeachment of Trump was just around the corner and an indictment was certain.
> 
> *Turns out, the story was fake.*


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of _progressive thinkers_, here's yet one more misguided soul.

He thinks that Trump cancelling Pelosi's trip _punishes the troops_ somehow... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Is that so? Ex-Hillary spox’s ‘insane take’ on Trump vs. Pelosi should come as news to ‘troops’

Just a couple samples:



> You think reporters are mad now? You can’t even imagine how furious they’d be if they saw our troops laughing and high-fiving when they find out about this. I promise you this is going over well.
> 
> That’s all.
> 
> — Jesse Kelly (@JesseKellyDC) January 17, 2019
> 
> From here to Afghanistan, the troops are whooping with glee. You have no earthly idea how awful it is to cater to a bunch of Congresspeople and their herds of staff. Trump just won every military vote.
> 
> — Emily Wellman (@ElectaWing) January 17, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the FIB s'more.

Bruce Ohr Testified That He Repeatedly Told Senior DOJ and FBI Officials That the Dossier Was Suspect and Paid for By Hillary Clinton, But the DOJ and FBI Hid That From the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Anyway



> Trust your political commissars masquerading as law enforcement and intelligence officials.
> 
> Virtually everyone at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Justice Department involved in the FBI's counterintelligence probe of candidate Donald Trump knew from the beginning that the investigation, dubbed "Crossfire Hurricane," was based on shaky opposition research compiled by a Trump-hating former British spy and funded by Hillary Clinton's campaign.
> 
> Bruce Ohr, the demoted associate attorney general, testified to Congress last August that he repeatedly warned top officials at the FBI and DOJ about Steele's bias and Fusion GPS's conflicts of interest, yet this information was kept hidden from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
> 
> And to add insult to injury, instead of investigating the officials who actively participated in the dossier hoax, Special Counsel Robert Mueller hired several of them to be on his team to investigate President Trump.​


Related:

Watergate by Any Other Name: A Blistering Take on Obama's Minions -- Clapper, Brennan, Comey, Lynch, Yates, McCabe, Etc. -- Breaking the Law to Target a Rival Presidential Candidate With an FBI Criminal Investigation That They Pretended Was Not a Criminal



> They pretended it wasn't a criminal investigation because the law forbade them from conducting a criminal investigation, given that they had no actual crime to investigate.
> 
> So they falsely -- illegally -- framed it as a "counterintelligence" investigation, but this was always a sham; the entire project was to find a crime that they could then launch a criminal investigation over.
> 
> *The liberal media is portraying this admission that the FBI broke the law as some kind of vindication that their conspiracy theories must be true, because, hey, why would people break so many laws to investigate someone for a crime unless they were rilly rilly sure they'd find a crime eventually?*


Bold mine.

Seriously screwed up.

Related, too:

Top Mueller Officials Coordinated With Fusion GPS Spouse In 2016



> A senior Department of Justice official says he repeatedly and specifically told top officials at the FBI and DOJ about dossier author Christopher Steele’s bias and his employer Fusion GPS’ conflicts of interest, information they kept hidden from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. These conversations involved high-level officials, including some who are now senior officials in the special counsel probe. And the conversations began taking place in the earliest days of August 2016, much earlier than previously revealed to congressional investigators seeking to learn the facts about the FBI’s decision to spy on the Trump campaign.


Related, three:

Criminality Of Deep State Investigation Of Trump Confirmed — Has U.S. Become A Banana Republic? 



> We've been saying for some time now that the entire investigation of Donald Trump for "colluding" with the Russians smelled like Deep State sabotage. Now, former associate Attorney General Bruce Ohr has confirmed that's true. If so, these are criminal acts. The only question is, what do we do now?


Toss their asses in jail, dismantle the FBI completely & entirely, salt the earth, start from scratch.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Let's talk the FIB s'more.
> 
> Bruce Ohr Testified That He Repeatedly Told Senior DOJ and FBI Officials That the Dossier Was Suspect and Paid for By Hillary Clinton, But the DOJ and FBI Hid That From the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Anyway
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> Watergate by Any Other Name: A Blistering Take on Obama's Minions -- Clapper, Brennan, Comey, Lynch, Yates, McCabe, Etc. -- Breaking the Law to Target a Rival Presidential Candidate With an FBI Criminal Investigation That They Pretended Was Not a Criminal
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> Seriously screwed up.
> 
> Related, too:
> 
> Top Mueller Officials Coordinated With Fusion GPS Spouse In 2016
> 
> Related, three:
> 
> Criminality Of Deep State Investigation Of Trump Confirmed — Has U.S. Become A Banana Republic?
> 
> Toss their asses in jail, dismantle the FBI completely & entirely, salt the earth, start from scratch.


All of which is very old news to anyone who does not rely on CNN or CBC as their only news source.


----------



## CubaMark

_The Trump Effect on America... how proud the bigots and racists must be..._ 

*Video shows boys in MAGA hats mocking elderly Indigenous protester at Washington rally*

A Catholic high school in Kentucky is facing social media backlash after videos posted online appeared to show an elderly Indigenous protester being mocked at a rally in Washington, D.C.

Videos posted online showed a young man wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat standing very close to and grinning at an elderly man who was beating a traditional drum and chanting. Dozens of other boys, many wearing MAGA hats, are seen surrounding the pair and cheering.

Some of them were wearing clothing bearing the logo of Covington Catholic High School, a private boys’ high school located in Park Hills, Ky.

The protester in the video was identified by Indigenous news outlet Indian Country Today as Nathan Phillips, a Vietnam War veteran, Omaha elder and former director of the Native Youth Alliance.

[...]

The Diocese of Covington and Covington Catholic High School condemned the students’ behaviour.

“We condemn the actions of the Covington Catholic High School students towards Nathan Phillips specifically, and Native Americans in general, Jan. 18, after the March for Life, in Washington, D.C.” read a statement on the organization’s website.

“We extend our deepest apologies to Mr. Phillips. This behavior is opposed to the Church’s teachings on the dignity and respect of the human person.

“The matter is being investigated and we will take appropriate action, up to and including expulsion.”
(GlobalNews)​


----------



## eMacMan

It may be on RT but Polly (as usual), nails this one.
https://www.rt.com/shows/icymi-with-polly-boiko/449136-huawei-ceo-arrest-spy/


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> _The Trump Effect on America._


_

If you would like to form your opinion using source material, here is an extensive video of the event.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2150322295026425&id=100001460262580_


----------



## Macfury

Who needs the original event? CubaMark has already been spoon-fed a wonderful version that makes him feel all warm in his tummy.



Beej said:


> If you would like to form your opinion using source material, here is an extensive video of the event.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2150322295026425&id=100001460262580


----------



## eMacMan

Beej said:


> If you would like to form your opinion using source material, here is an extensive video of the event.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2150322295026425&id=100001460262580


Interesting that facebook seems to have censored that posting. Wonder what the elite did not want us to see?


----------



## CubaMark

Go back and watch that 1hr46m video again, this time with your prejudices turned off. You might see something new.


----------



## Macfury

Which time stamps should we be watching?



CubaMark said:


> Go back and watch that 1hr46m video again, this time with your prejudices turned off. You might see something new.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> Who needs the original event? CubaMark has already been spoon-fed a wonderful version that makes him feel all warm in his tummy.


Another point of view here:
https://spectator.us/liberal-punch-child/

If someone wants to watch the lengthy footage and discuss the various examples of bigotry afterwards (jot down timestamps while you're watching), I'm game. 

Otherwise, Macfury is correct. I'll add that, in addition to spoon-fed good feels, there is no sign of genuine concern with the alleged bigotry. There are signs of satisfaction in having an existing assumption "confirmed". In other words, more spoon-fed good feels would lead to more self satisfaction despite the worse outcome for society (ie. more bigotry).

:-( <-- emojis are a tell beejacon


----------



## Beej

eMacMan said:


> Interesting that facebook seems to have censored that posting. Wonder what the elite did not want us to see?


An alternative link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EC1_gcr34&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for noticing that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Just keep talking, Rudy. 












> Rudy Giuliani, an attorney for Donald Trump, argued on Sunday that the president could not have obstructed justice when he asked former FBI Director James Comey to “go easy” on then-National Security Adviser Michael Flynn in the Russia investigation.
> 
> In an interview that aired on Meet the Press, Giuliani conceded to host Chuck Todd that presidents could be guilty of obstruction of justice — but he insisted that Trump was not because he had used the word “please” with Comey before asking him to curb the Russia investigation.
> 
> “A president firing somebody that works for him, if he does no other corrupt act other than just fire him, can’t obstruct justice,” Giuliani opined. “If, for example, a president said, ‘Leave office or I’m going to have your kids kidnapped or I’m going to break your legs.'”
> 
> “When the president said [to Comey,] ‘Please, go easy on Flynn,’ I know of no obstruction case that begins with the word ‘please,'” he continued. “It goes something like this: ‘If you don’t go easy on Flynn, I’ll break your knee caps.'”
> 
> According to Giuliani, Trump simple made a legal “request” for Comey to reign in the Russia investigation before firing the FBI director.


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/gi...tice-didnt-threaten-kidnap-james-comeys-kids/


----------



## Beej

A quick summary of the process underway in news and social media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate

Edit: Some people may not be familiar with how these hate sessions work on social media. Here's an example from twitter.
https://twitter.com/nickmon1112/status/1087049842277392384

A bunch of people, with righteous anger, ID the targets and the targets families, call for violence, and try to get people fired (or expelled and blacklisted in the case of students).

The process does not require proof or a review of context. Just the claim and then...


> A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.


----------



## Macfury

If he did, how would it have a material effect on anything?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just keep talking, Rudy.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Go back and watch that 1hr46m video again, this time with your prejudices turned off. You might see something new.


Yep the fake news aspect is absolutely glaring.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Who needs the original event? CubaMark has already been spoon-fed a wonderful version that makes him feel all warm in his tummy.


Precisely.

One of ehMac's very own virtue signalling Prog idiots, the one who claims to be _so_ objective, who _never_ jumps to conclusions, who is _patient & waits_ for the _whole story_ to come out, who then analyses the data _carefully_ & with _no, zero, bias_, has, based on a selectively edited video showing these MAGA-hat wearing kids in the absolute worst light possible, churned out yet one more Clock Girl for us: Catlicker Boyz!

Congratulations, CM! :clap::clap::clap:

Anatomy of a Narrative



> So there you have it. A perfect case illustrating exactly how the media manipulates a story to push a preferred narrative. The conclusions I've presented here are my own, based upon the available evidence which I've presented above, feel free to draw your own. If you have a compelling counter argument (with evidence), please present it below. There's a lot more information available out there, particularly on Twitter (like statements from the students themselves and a (predictable) knee-jerk condemnation of the kids from the Diocese of Covington ), go see for yourself. Never, ever, ever believe what the media tells you to believe without checking into it personally.


The Morning Rant



> "So, according to media reports, during last Friday's March For Life March, a bunch of kids from a Catholic school, all wearing MAGA hats, piled out of a school bus, surrounded a completely peaceful Native American guy who was just standing there minding his own business, and yelled and screamed and jeered at him in between their chants of 'build the wall.' Except, it didn't happen that way at all. But that won't stop the progs from believing that it did until the day they die. I can just see a bunch of worn-out geezers at an Old Progs Home sitting in their rocking chairs out on the front porch, perhaps wearing faded old Bernie T-shirts, and then one of them turns to the others and says, 'Remember that time when those Catholic school kids killed Elizabeth Warren? Curse Donald Trump!' and the rest all nod sagely and raise their trembling fists in a '#Resist' salute."


----------



## FeXL

Further on Catlicker Boyz!

NPC MSM: Spinning the Narrative to Destroy Innocent Lives



> Ben Shapiro: Liars, Damn Liars, And The Media
> 
> James Delingpole chimes in.
> 
> Even more here.
> 
> Update: Must read article on this incident – h/t Boots


Comments nail it, especially this one:



> I am soooooooo encouraged to hear that this family is lawyering-up with both pro-bono and business Law Firms. I want them to SUE the HOLY HELL out of every single corporate entity that went with this FAKE story … and every single individual that did harm to this kids reputation … esp. Hollywooden CREEPS like Alyssa Milano (whoever the hell she is). I want to see judgements in the $$ millions! That is the ONLY WAY to STOP this disgusting personal attack mob from RUINING lives. Go get em!


It's really too bad they can't charge Prog blog posters who mouth the narrative...

Related (language warning):

National Review Managing Editor "Apologizes" For His Post Slanderously Accusing Covington Boys of "Bullying" and "Evil";
Does Not Say the Boys Were Innocent, Merely That His Tone Was Too "High-Handed" and "Preachy"



> I'm going to print both his original slander here, as well as his "sorry if you were offended by my too-clear statement of the truth" nonpology.
> 
> I feel I am permitted to print both in full, because Jonah Goldberg plagiarized a column of mine without attribution and online editor Charles Cooke hasn't troubled himself to respond to my questions about this.
> 
> So apparently National Review has decided that their cuck blog and this blog have some kind of joint publishing agreement, where we can borrow each other's columns, like pennies in the dish at 7-11.
> 
> Fine.


More:


> The man the crowd ridiculed is Nathan Phillips, an elder of the Omaha tribe. He was in Washington for the Indigenous Peoples March, on Friday. It coincided with the March for Life, which Covington Catholic High School organized a contingent of students to attend. According to Phillips, their confrontation with him, in the shadow of the Lincoln Memorial, involved a disagreement about "the wall." He's against it. They're for it. Some of them, including the boy who makes himself the co-star of the video by stepping forward and getting in Phillips’s face, wore "Make America Great Again" hats.​
> *This is a common refrain from these bigots* -- the implication that we know these ****ers are guilty because they wore MAGA hats.
> 
> Wearing political paraphrenalia to a political march -- HOW DARE THEY!
> 
> They should have worn something non-political and appropriate to the moment, like "RUBIO 2020" hats.


Excellent read.

Emphasis mine.

I wanted to emphasize that particular sentence & especially that one word: bigot.

I've been called any numbers of names by the Progs on these boards over the years, none of which have been anywhere near accurate.

The most galling to me, however, is _that_ word: Bigot.

As someone who had a number of non-white, non-Canadian friends (and room- & suite- mates) in university, as someone who has had a Chinese Canadian sensei for over 25 years, as someone who is always open minded to anybody willing to state their case & defend it with facts, I'm one of the least bigoted people you will know.

However, when you get narrow minded Progs (but I repeat myself) like CM climbing on the bandwagon & screaming, "MAGA-hat wearing, Catholic-school attending BIGOTS" before enough information is out to make _any_ kind of intelligent observation (assuming he is even capable of that...), who is the actual BIGOT here?

And, _and_, if you're waiting for an apology, a "Guys, I jumped the gun", a simple, humble, contrite _mea culpa_, from CM, don't hold your breath.

He hasn't done so for Clock Girl, his last bigoted FUBAR outburst, yet...

CM, here's a pro tip for ya: Just like Clock girl, this ain't _never_ goin' away. You may as well hang up your spurs _right now_ and preserve what little face you have left remaining on these boards.

This is twice now that your uncontrolled anger, bitterness, ideology, TDS, hatred, bigotry, whatever, have reared their ugly heads & made you look like the north end of a southbound skunk. 

Seek help.


----------



## Macfury

I'll bet CM felt good boiling over in outrage over another fake news story. He was going to show those EhMacers what was what!


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Go back and watch that 1hr46m video again, this time with your prejudices turned off. You might see something new.


This has earned an old meme. No more, no less.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> This has earned an old meme. No more, no less.


He just watched that mass of projection over and over and still saw only his projected hatred of Catholic kids.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> He just watched that mass of projection over and over and still saw only his projected hatred of Catholic kids.


I'm not sure how someone could watch that video and not notice that the primary and explicit source of bigotry was the group recording the video (or someone standing beside them).

But I guess that "smirk of supremacy" really nails it for certain prejudices. Reminds me of this comedy bit about a racist police officer.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOtJdiBZR4[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> I'm not sure how someone could watch that video and not notice that the primary and explicit source of bigotry was the group recording the video (or someone standing beside them).


Best guess. CM may have never watched the video, only what was spoonfed to him by the hateful media sources he favours.


----------



## Macfury

AOC, on the record:


> OCASIO-CORTEZ: “And I think the part of it that is generational is that millennials and people, in gen z, and all these folks that come after us are looking up and we’re like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change. You’re biggest issue, your biggest issue is how are going to pay for it? — and like this is the war, this is our world war II. And I think for younger people looking at this are more like, how are we saying let’s take it easy when 3000 Americans died last year, how are we saying let’s take it easy when the end person died from our cruel and unjust criminal justice system? How are we saying take it easy, the America that we’re living in today is dystopian with people sleeping in their cars so they can work a second job without healthcare and we’re told to settle down. It’s a fundamental separation between that fierce urgency of now, the why we can’t wait that King spoke of. That at some point this chronic reality do reach a breaking point and I think for our generation it reached that, I wished I didn’t have to be doing every post, but sometimes I just feel like people aren’t being held accountable. Until, we start pitching in and holding people accountable, I’m just gonna let them have it.”


https://news.grabien.com/story-ocasio-cortez-millennials-were-world-going-end-12-years-if-w


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> AOC, on the record:


I fact-checked this quote:


> and we’re like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change


and came up with this documentary footage:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyjLn9P5LwA[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> I fact-checked this quote:
> 
> 
> and came up with this documentary footage:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyjLn9P5LwA


Unlike CM, I _did _watch the entire AOC segment to make sure all of that drivel was actually spoken by her. But now this documentary confirms that she might actually be correct.

(I have started to cut down trees in my neighbourhood, because they are releasing dozens of elephants of oxygen into the sky.)


----------



## FeXL

Awrite, let's talk the Catlicker Boyz! s'more.

Good, it's a start:

First Journalist Fired for Fake News and Threats Directed at Catholic MAGA Kids



> It's been a bad week for the mainstream press, first with the Michael Cohen hoax by BuzzFeed and now with the Covington Catholic fake news, where journalists claimed that Catholic students mocked a Native American. That turned out to be untrue. It's safe to say that the spectacle has ruined everyone's last remaining shred of hope that the media would stop being the Enemy of the People. Clearly, that is not going to happen. The bright spot on the horizon is that The Wrap is reporting that at least one of these terrible "journalists" has been fired:
> 
> Digital company INE Entertainment has fired a journalist who publicly wished for the death of several Covington Catholic High School students and their parents in a pair of tweets over the weekend. Aside from his job as a post-production supervisor at INE, Erik Abriss is a contributor to New York Media’s pop culture site Vulture. “We were surprised and upset to see the inflammatory and offensive rhetoric used on Erik Abriss’ Twitter account this weekend. He worked with the company in our post-production department and never as a writer,” the company said in a statement to TheWrap on Monday.​
> Abriss was one of the hundreds of adults on Twitter calling for the deaths of children for the crime of wearing MAGA hats and smiling in public. Lashing out on Twitter, Abriss expressed his deep wish that the children and their parents would die.
> 
> *"I don’t know what it says about me but I’ve truly lost the ability to articulate the hysterical rage, nausea, and heartache this makes me feel," typed Abriss. "I just want these people to die. Simple as that. Every single one of them. And their parents.”*


Bold mine.

He seems nice.

And, when you're so stupid you can't actually identify the problem in the mirror, whaddya do? Blame the other guy!

Senior Democrat: Ban Teens from Wearing MAGA Hats



> *House Budget Committee chair* Rep. John Yarmuth (D-KY) called Sunday for a ban on teenagers wearing “Make America Great Again” (MAGA) hats, in response to a viral video of a confrontation between Catholic students and Native American counter-demonstrators at the March for Life on Friday in Washington, DC.


Bold mine.

MAGA HATS! TEENAGERS IN MAGA HATS ARE THE PROBLEM! AHHHHHH!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

And, _and_, if you're so arrogant that a simple apology for making a mistake is beneath you, whadday do? You _double down_!

Fake News Media Doubles Down with Another Covington Catholic MAGA Teen Smear



> The stunning media bias directed against a group of Trump-supporting Catholic kids who were confronted by a black separatist hate group and a Native American group led by a mendacious, drum-beating elder in Washington, D.C., last Friday has abated but not gone away.
> 
> Some media outlets have backed away from their erroneous takes, while others are still stubbornly clinging to the idea that the kids were in the wrong and the Native Americans who were harassing them were somehow their victims.
> 
> As bad as that is, a few others have actually doubled down with more smears aimed at defaming the kids' school, Covington Catholic High, in an effort to feed their confirmation bias that the kids are a bunch of racist ******* hillbillies.
> 
> The New York Daily News and the Daily Mail stepped up to the plate in a big way.
> 
> Disgusting smear from the @NYDailyNews sports desk that gets almost all the facts wrong to try to extend the smear against these kids. Someone should be fired for this. https://t.co/YW1aYHE1AJ
> — (((AG))) (@AG_Conservative) January 22, 2019
> 
> Here's a 2015 photo of #CovingtonCatholic's fine, upstanding student body clad in blackface at one of their basketball games harassing an opposing Black player. pic.twitter.com/6VZST6BL40
> — Tariq Nasheed (@tariqnasheed) January 21, 2019​
> The photo "is said to be featuring Covington Catholic High School students clad in blackface during a 2015 basketball game," the New York Daily News passive aggressively reported. The pic "made the rounds on Twitter Monday morning amid last week’s Indigenous Peoples March controversy," the Daily News sports staff added (because no one wanted to sign their name to this nonsense).


Now, let's talk that fine, upstanding, First Immigrant, Nathan Philips.

First off, he claims to have fought during the Vietnam War _era_. I'm not exactly sure just WTH that means, but if he was born in '54 or '55, that leaves a pretty narrow window. Not saying it didn't happen, just that there are some issues that require clarification.

Questions Are Being Raised About Native American Elder Nathan Phillips’ Alleged USMC Service During The Vietnam War

Then, we have this:

Surprise: Nathan Philips, Allegedly a "Marine Recon Ranger" (Because That's a Thing That Really Exists), Seems to Have a History of Confronting White Students and Then Claiming He Was Racially Assaulted



> You know, Nick Monroe, a "freelance journalist," found this, it seems, with just a google search.
> 
> But National Review, which conservatives give their money to, couldn't find it, or more likely didn't even bother searching for this guy's name to get his background.
> 
> Because they're Real Journalists. Real like their very good friends at BuzzFeed and MSNBC.





> An Ypsilanti man says he was trying to teach a few students dressed in American Indian theme party about respecting Native Americans.
> 
> Not long afterward, Nathan Phillips said that an interaction with party-goers and students turned ugly.
> 
> Nathan Phillips says he was out for a noon walk on a Saturday in mid-April.
> He *walked by* a home where he saw Eastern Michigan University students dressed as Native Americans.
> 
> "They had little feathers on, *I was just going to walk by," Phillips said. "A group of them said 'Come on over, come here.*'"​
> Uh-huh. He just blundered across them when randomly meandering. How very serendipitous.
> 
> He says he walked over to the fence and saw roughly 30 to 40 students involved in a theme party.
> 
> "They had their face painted," Phillips said. "I said what the heck is going on here. 'Oh we are honoring you.' I said no you are not honoring me."
> 
> It was a statement he says they took offense to.
> 
> *"Then started whooping and hollering," he said. "I said that wasn't honoring, that was racist. Then at that time, it really got ugly."
> 
> Phillips says he was bombarded with racial slurs.
> 
> "(They said) 'Go back to the reservation, you blank indian,'" he said.*​
> I believe all of this.
> 
> One student, he says, threw a beer can at him.​
> You can't see my face right now, but I've got my Believing Everything You Say face on right now.


Emphasis from the link.

And, finally:

Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson Have Had It With the Cucks



> As Limbaugh says: They're getting "fooled" because _they want to be fooled_. They think this stuff is true _because they *want* it to be true._
> 
> They eagerly push memes that paint conservative children as evil and racist because in their deepest heart they *want* conservative children to be evil and racist -- that gives them more people to scold and feel good about scolding.
> 
> At some point, you don't get to say "I was fooled" any longer.
> 
> At some point, you either have to admit one of two things is true:
> 
> 1, *you're not that smart, certainly not as smart as you boast to people on twitter, or else you wouldn't keep (allegedly) getting chumped and rolled by the left every other week.*


Emphasis from the link, save the last, which is mine.

Knocks it out of the park.

And, precisely what some of us have been saying on these boards for years.

And, _and_, for those of you who have read the recent posts about the Catlicker Boyz! & have not been critical of the _stunning_ bigotry on display, guess what? *You're part of the problem, too.*


----------



## FeXL

I'm not done yet.

First off, yeah, there's issues with a certain Marine's claims:

There Goes The Narrative



> Again.
> 
> Nathan Phillips 'war hero' narrative is crumbling.
> 
> From WaPo: "Correction:…Phillips served in the U.S. Marines from 1972 to 1976 but was never deployed to Vietnam."https://t.co/pDOOnuyCKq
> 
> — John Cardillo (@johncardillo) January 22, 2019​
> And there’s more on Nathanial “Freon Ranger” Stanard.
> 
> The truth on #NathanPhillips per DD214 fm #DonShipley A poseur assassinhttps://t.co/1h4P6xAadj
> *Not a Vietnam vet
> Served in USMC 72-76
> Drumroll please
> Refrigerator mechanic not a "Recon Ranger
> & the big finish
> 3 AWOLS
> 
> Thanks for your service Nate
> Now shut up*
> 
> NSFW but awesome pic.twitter.com/AcZciLewKi​
> — Jim Hanson (@Uncle_Jimbo) January 23, 2019


Bold mine.

Now, on to the meat of the matter:

LOL: No One's Accepting National Review's Newest Partial Apology So They Decide to Forgive Themselves Instead



> National Review is tired of waiting for people to accept their begrudging, compelled apologies, so they're accepting their own apology now.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Oh, and send them money.


Related:

This is Exactly Right

Nails it.

Related, too:

By the Way...



> You know who brought it to the alleged "conservative" Rich Lowry's attention that the Covington video was #FakeNews?
> 
> It was the _proudly left-wing YouTuber Tim Pool_.
> 
> I've linked Tim Pool a lot. He's left-of-center, but he is full of basic common sense and a spirit of fair play and against race/gender "identitarianism" on both the right and left.
> 
> Half the stories I put up I get from Tim Pool.
> 
> Well not half. But a lot. Three or four a week.
> 
> I watch almost all of his videos, except on the days when he ****s out seven of them. Too many!
> 
> Anyway, here's the point:
> 
> *It took a leftwing guy (though a fair-minded and sensible one*) to actually watch the videos and tell the alleged right-wing guy Rich Lowry that he was pushing a false story and unfairly condemning innocent _children_ who had done literally nothing wrong.


Bold mine.

Thank you, Mr Common Sense Lefty Tim Pool!

Related, 3:

America's First Documented Hatcrime



> And remember, National Review and the various other cucklings were right there alongside the hard left and CNN (But I repeat myself) in proclaiming that wearing a MAGA hat was/is itself a hatecrime -- a hatcrime -- which is provocative and deserves a response up to and including violent assault.
> 
> Oh -- and don't forget, they were white and male and Christian, so that means the left is going to lynch them for nothing, and that also means the Cuck Fake-Right is going to help string up the rope to do it, so they don't miss an invitation to the next cocktail party.


Related, 4:

Even After the Proof that the Covington Kids Were Smeared Is Well-Known, Hugh Hewitt is _Still_ Demanding They Be Lectured for Doing... _Something_



> Maybe for wearing those Racist Hats?
> 
> Nolte:
> 
> For 24 hours, the media made a deliberate attempt to destroy the lives of innocent kids based solely on the color of their skin and political beliefs.
> 
> What has been especially contemptible, though, are these go-along-to-get-along conservatives, those more interested in the good opinion of the establishment media than truth.
> 
> Without having all the facts, a countless number of media suck-ups gleefully signaled their own virtue and joined the media to pile on to destroy high school boys… Yippee! Yahoo! Wowzee! Aren’t we virtuous! Aren’t we the cool kidz! Aren’t we so much better than those racist, red-hatted MAGA creeps who practically lynched an Indian! Whoohee! Yazzaroo! I feel so good about myself!!​


Related, 5:

God Save Us from #Woke Fake Conservatives



> It's the people in your social group that have the most influence over you. And this is where you'd show bravery, if you had any -- by disagreeing with _them_.
> 
> But the cucks don't. The cucks daren't. The cucks are like herd-animals gathering in a big circle, all trying to get to the very middle of the bustling crowd where it's the warmest and the safest.


Kinda like starting up yer very own Prog blog, idn't it... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

_Still_ not done.

The Washington Post and Kirstin Powers: The Real Victims in the Covington FakeNews Scandal? JOURNALISTS.



> Won't you think of the poor journalists who are putting children's lives in danger with their slanders and lies?
> 
> This ⁦@washingtonpost⁩ story captures the real lesson of this episode—don’t succumb to orchestrated harassment campaigns against journalists.
> 
> “The Covington Catholic story went viral. The mainstream media chased it. The Trump Internet pounced.” https://t.co/Bu3zEeIFpE
> — Kirsten Powers (@KirstenPowers) January 23, 2019​
> And it's not like they've eased up, either -- NBC is still putting these kids in the crosshairs. _With gusto._


Related:

Surprise: Representative Ilhan Omar Defends the Black Hebrew Israelites Who Called the Covington Students Racial and Homophobic Slurs



> So if I have this right, _we're_ all to be crucified for minor infractions of alleged rules that _some people_ are encouraged by _congresswomen_ to violate flagrantly?
> 
> *Why, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable and logical system of Apartheid Justice. I will gladly labor under this obviously racially-supremacist New Jim Crow regime.*


Nails it.

Related, too:

I Spit on the Grave of the National Review



> National Review is shocked — shocked etc. The Washington Post? Gleefully accepting a bogus story that coincidentally fits their chosen narrative? Well at least they all vote Communist all of the time. Every one of the termites constituting the WaPo colony voted for Hillary, unlike the National Review, which was at least split on that tough decision. Hmm, Republican or Democrat — gosh! That’s a toughie for a conservative outlet! So the Trump-hating National Review gleefully accepted a bogus story that coincidentally fit their chosen narrative, and that’s what got us the column quoted above.


Related, three:

Lawyer for Covington Kids Warns Media: You Have 48 Hours to Retract and Correct Your Smears. Otherwise, Lawsuits Will Be Filed Starting Next Week.



> I don't need to quote this one because I'm pretty sure you guys will follow the link to Nice Deb.
> 
> Important point for the Covington Kids' lawyers:
> 
> The media will claim they didn't know and had no reason to know their story was false.
> 
> This thread will be helpful in disproving that. Mike Cernovich says he's followed by many, many media types (who are always looking to attack him) and he fully documented the falsity of this story by Saturday _afternoon_ -- before most media jumped on the bandwagon.
> 
> This should prove that they knew, or should have known, the story was false, but published a false smear targeting children _anyway_.
> 
> Tim Pool also proved that the story was false early, and his example can show how easy it was to prove the story was false: All you had to do was to _watch the ****ing video_.


Related, four:

"Passive Conservatism" and the Surrender Caucus



> I think you'll agree with this.
> 
> Much more presentable version of the tweet-thread here, assembled into normal text.
> 
> Passive conservatism was so thoroughly terrorized away from social issues over the past generation that it became reluctant to engage even when leftists are clearly the aggressors and their attacks are utterly dishonest.
> — John Hayward (@Doc_0) January 22, 2019​


No more f'ing surrender...


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No chance. There is no way in hell restaurant owners will start laying off workers if the minimum wage goes up to $15/hr. Uh, ung. Ain't happening...

NYC Restaurants Slash Staff over $15 Minimum Wage



> New York City restaurants, feeling the pinch of trying to make ends meet, are slashing their staff after a state law that took effect at the end of 2018 is mandating restaurants with 11 or more workers to pay a $15 an hour minimum wage.


So, for those of you in Prog la-la land who have been claiming otherwise, there is a failed experiment in Seattle, in California, & now in NYC. All Prog strongholds and they haven't been able to make it fly.

Time to eat a plate of cold, $15/hr crow...


----------



## FeXL

Just like hogs to the trough...

Nancy Pelosi Charged The Air Force Nearly $200k To Fly Her Family And Other Lawmakers To Italy And Ukraine



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s congressional delegation (CODEL) to Belgium, Egypt and Afghanistan garnered extra attention after President Donald Trump banned her from using military aircraft, but the trip would not have been the first time she used Air Force money to travel the world.
> 
> Pelosi’s trip to Italy and Ukraine from July 30 to Aug. 6, 2015, cost the Air Force $184,587.81, according to documents released Saturday under a 2015 Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit by Judicial Watch. Her delegation was made up of nine other members of Congress, including Democratic Reps. Anna Eshoo of California and Marcia Fudge of Ohio.
> 
> Four family members, including Pelosi’s husband Paul Pelosi, were on the trip. The delegation dined at restaurants including James Beard American Restaurant in Milan, where a five-course meal cost up to $190, according to Fine Dining Lovers. The lawmakers also toured the Vatican and met up with Italian dignitaries, including President Sergio Mattarella and then-Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, according to their itinerary.


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that.

Gillibrand Doesn’t Think Trump’s ‘Racist’ Border Policies Were Racist When She Supported Them



> Democratic New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand claimed Sunday that despite previously advocating for the same immigration policies as President Donald Trump, his positions are “racist” but hers were not.
> 
> “[My immigration positions] certainly weren’t empathetic and they were not kind and I did not think about suffering in other people’s lives,” Gillibrand told Jake Tapper when he confronted her with her conservative immigration platform while serving as the congresswoman for New York’s 20th Congressional District.
> 
> “You said Trump’s immigration positions are racist — that’s the word you used, racist,” Tapper said.
> 
> “If Trump’s immigration positions are racist, were they racist when you held some of those positions as well?” he asked.


RASCIS!!!


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Thank you, Mr Common Sense Lefty Tim Pool!


I can second the recommendation for Tim Pool. Been watching his stuff for a while and enjoy the perspective.

His youtube channels:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Timcasts/videos (about one video a day)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe02lGcO-ahAURWuxAJnjdA/videos (a few videos a day, more casual)


----------



## Beej

An excellent example of media manipulation regarding the "MAGA kids". It's nuts how badly they feel the need to tell you what to think instead of inform you.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...gton-catholic-students-from-pariahs-to-heroes

To give you a taste...


> conservative media have normalized the boys’ aggressive form of political expression





> Instead of asking why a group of schoolboys were protesting wearing hats that many in the community view as a symbol of racism





> conservatives quickly turned it into a game of who approached whom





> The most influential revisionist account Soave reframed the discussion to include the actions of a group unrelated either to the students or to Native protesters


Projection highlight


> Another tactic conservative media uses is to only consider the most appalling versions of opposing arguments, and to focus their audience’s anger on reliable scapegoats.


This whole thing was an attempt to attack "appalling" Trump supporters as scapegoats for broader opposition to Trump.

Try clicking through on some of the links intended to support the writer's claims, and see if the argument is supported. I tried two and they did not support the argument.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump just got his ass kicked—by a girl! Nancy Pelosi informed him that he will not be delivering a state of the union address as long as the government remains shut down. This should be interesting.


----------



## SINC

Interesting? He will just move the venue and give the speech. How is that interesting? He wins. She loses.

Say he chooses the Oval Office. Do you not think the MSM networks will not broadcast it? Or that both congress and the senate will watch? Or that Pelosi herself won't watch?

Mission accomplished!


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> I can second the recommendation for Tim Pool. Been watching his stuff for a while and enjoy the perspective.


I'll have a look. Thx!


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> An excellent example of media manipulation regarding the "MAGA kids". It's nuts how badly they feel the need to tell you what to think instead of inform you.


It's the Grunion. No surprises.


----------



## FeXL

Man!!! I'll bet that left a mark, huh, Freddie?

Woohoo!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Do you think Trump cares where, or even if, the SOTU is given?

About this —><— much...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump just got his ass kicked—by a girl!


----------



## FeXL

Further on the liars.

Cold Warrior: Everyone's Favorite "Vietnam Vet" Was a Refrigerator Mechanic Who Went AWOL Three Times



> UPDATE: CHIEF LIES WITH ABANDON LIES MORE ABOUT HIS PREVIOUS LIES; WAPO VOUCHES FOR HIM


Related:

The Wages of Clickbait: BuzzFeed to Lay Off 15% of Workforce



> BuzzFeed plans to cut about 250 jobs, or 15% of workforce https://t.co/lzalqJKRsq
> — Lukas I. Alpert (@lalpert1) January 23, 2019​


Good!

Related, too:

Red Caps and Yellow Journalism



> According to their own standards of practice, “Reporters are expected to be as accurate as possible given the time allotted to story preparation and the space available and to seek reliable sources.”
> 
> Twitter is a reliable source? Seriously? What about Instagram or Facebook? Hey, how about the bathroom wall of the local gas station? The only difference between platforms is the method of delivery, and rate of infection spread.
> 
> Next they’d like to have the story to include, “Independent fact-checking by another employee of the publisher is desirable.”
> 
> For the record, your fellow journalist re-Tweeting the same information is not a method of independent fact checking.
> 
> Seriously, guys, these are YOUR guidelines. It seems as though almost every reporter or journalist acquired amnesia, and jumped on the Lynch-Mob wagon to eviscerate a child. Ohh, a child should have extra protections! Well, they do. In the haste to “get the story our first, and generate clicks” the professionals overlooked yet another of their guidelines. Sorry, my bad. I used the singular form. They ignored ALL of these guidelines


----------



## FeXL

I'm so old I remember when the GOP ended the shutdown under Barry.

Steny Hoyer Recalls When GOP Ended Shutdown and Allowed Obamacare: ‘Thank God for John Boehner’ 



> In fact, the government was closed for 16 days in October 2013 after the Senate, then-controlled by Democrats, refused to pass fiscal 2014 funding bills that included language that would have rolled back Obamacare, which was set to be fully implemented in 2014.
> 
> That shutdown occurred as fiscal 2013 ended and fiscal 2014 started—on Oct. 1, 2013.
> 
> “Hours before a midnight deadline, the Republican House passed its third proposal in two weeks to fund the government for a matter of weeks,” the Washington Post reported on Oct. 1, 2013. “Like the previous plans, the new one sought to undermine the Affordable Care Act, this time by delaying enforcement of the ‘individual mandate,’ a cornerstone of the law that requires all Americans to obtain health insurance.”
> 
> “The Democratic-led Senate quickly rejected that plan on a party-line vote,” the Post reported.
> 
> *Sixteen days later, without the support of the majority of Republicans in the House, John Boehner caved.*


M'bold.

Prog's turn...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Interesting? He will just move the venue and give the speech. How is that interesting? He wins. She loses.
> 
> 
> 
> Say he chooses the Oval Office. Do you not think the MSM networks will not broadcast it? Or that both congress and the senate will watch? Or that Pelosi herself won't watch?
> 
> 
> 
> Mission accomplished!



Breaking News:

Trump: I will do the State of the Union address when the shutdown is over. 

Yeah, that’s quite the win your boy is accepting, Don.


----------



## FeXL

How is delivering a late SOTU a failure?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, that’s quite the win your boy is accepting, Don.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the SOTU.

Blackburn: ‘Would Be Wonderful’ if Trump Gave SOTU from Senate



> On Thursday’s broadcast of the Fox Business Network’s “Evening Edit,” Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) stated that she hopes President Trump gives the State of the Union on the floor of the Senate.
> 
> Blackburn said, “They do not want to give Donald Trump a win. And it is just the same type of thing you’re seeing with Pelosi saying, let’s not do the State of the Union. Well, Liz, this is the time that people need to be hearing from the president, and I do hope that he will come and give that address from the Senate floor. That would be wonderful if he did.”


That would be interesting.

Related (and, Freddie, why a late SOTU is _not a failure_):

Sound of Silence



> It’s not widely known, but the Constitution requires that the president deliver some version of a State of the Union message. Article II, Section III states that the president “shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.” President George Washington read “from time to time” as “annually,” and a tradition was born. Both Washington and his successor, John Adams, chose to meet this obligation with speeches, but the Constitution doesn’t stipulate how the information must be conveyed. Beginning with Thomas Jefferson in 1801, the “annual message,” as it was then called, was delivered as a written document. That practice continued unbroken until 1913, when Woodrow Wilson (who never passed up a chance to elevate the office to ecclesiastical heights) delivered the message as a speech. Though both Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover tried to revert to the written format, a speech delivered before both houses of Congress has been the default since Franklin Roosevelt’s 1934 address


----------



## FeXL

Trump's had enough.

Trump: LOL I'm Authorizing $7+ Billion for the Wall GFY



> Well, the left will be able to take some solace here:
> 
> At least the government will reopen, and people will be able to afford Quality Tampon Coverage again.


Ace also goes into the Catlicker Boyz!


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of the Catlicker Boyz!, we're gonna beat that horse (ass?) s'more...

There Goes The Narrative!



> The Nathan Phillips thing just gets better and better.
> 
> 🚨Nathan Phillips, January 3, 2018🚨
> 
> "I'm a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was **in theater**. I don't talk much about my Vietnam times." pic.twitter.com/nIoYxGoPqM
> 
> — Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) January 24, 2019​


Related:

Chief Lies With Abandon's Past History Includes Assault Charge, _Prison Escape_



> That Prison? A Prison called AmeriKKKa, maaaaan.
> 
> Nathan Phillips, the Native American activist who falsely accused Covington Catholic High School students of blocking him during a confrontation he initiated, has a criminal record -- including assault and escape from jail -- and appears to have misrepresented his military service.​


Related, too:

NBC "News:" A MAGA Hat Is Literally Hitler

Again with the Hitler $h!t? XX)

Related, three (language warning):

Butterball Powerbottom Brian Stelter: Have Journalists Proved They're Too Immature and Too Unprofessional To Use Twitter Without Slandering Children for Retweets?



> As Mollie Hemingway has said several times, Twitter did improve transparency, and that transparency in turn reduced trust in media.
> 
> You showed yourselves for what you really are. We noticed. We adjusted our estimates of you according to the new information.
> 
> The thing is, what twitter exposed was not that you were leftwing. We already new that.
> 
> What twitter exposed was that you were also dumb, easily duped, eager to believe self-justifying conspiracy theories, thin-skinned, arrogant, incompetent, disgracefully lazy, psychologically (and almost certainly physically) inadequate, dunderheadedly unimaginative and unwilling to consider any idea not within the braindead leftwing Incela Corridor Conventional Wisdom Bubble, prone to the most cowardly go-along-to-get-along sort of groupthink, and weak.
> 
> Before Twitter, you were removed from us. Anyone who's removed seems exalted. We knew you were leftwing political operators, but, and I hate to admit this, your remoteness made you seem like you were... elite.
> 
> Now we've seen what you really are. You're C- minus students and fat-assed pencil pushers with a nose for sniffing out the right dicks to suck.
> 
> You're ****ing pathetic. You're Salon Commenters with a personal makeup budget.
> 
> _That's_ what Twitter revealed.


----------



## FeXL

And, there's been s'more "journalist" layoffs.

:-(

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Just Because It Deserves Its Own Thread

Hilarious! Along with the comments.

Related:

More Sadz



> For those who are wondering, @HuffPost Opinion -- the entire section -- is being eliminated. The beautiful, diverse, inclusive baby we built from scratch is gone.
> — Chloe Angyal (@ChloeAngyal) January 24, 2019​


Related, too:

1, Rent a U-Haul, 2, Learn to Code, 3 Get ****ed

Let me sum up Ace's reaction:



> lol
> 
> ...
> 
> lol
> 
> ...
> 
> lol


I agree.

This is my schadenfreude smile —>


----------



## CubaMark

_Truly astonishing, the inability of the 1% to understand the plight of the little person.... _ 

*Millionaire Wilbur Ross suggests furloughed workers use loans, not food banks amid shutdown*

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, one of the richest people in President Donald Trump’s Cabinet, questioned Thursday why furloughed federal workers were using food banks instead of taking out loans to get through the monthlong partial government shutdown.

Ross was asked on CNBC to comment on reports that some of the 800,000 workers currently not receiving paychecks are going to homeless shelters to get food.

“Well, I know they are and I don’t really quite understand why,” said Ross.

“The obligations that they would undertake, say borrowing from a bank or a credit union, are in effect federally guaranteed. So the 30 days of pay that some people will be out ? there’s no real reason why they shouldn’t be able to get a loan against it.”

Ross’ comments were the latest in a series of remarks by Trump officials about the shutdown that struck some critics as tone deaf.

[....]

Ross said workers will “eventually” get their pay and that there is no reason why a loan would not be a reasonable option for workers who have been staring at zeroes on their pay statements.

“Now true, the people might have to pay a little bit of interest, but the idea that it’s paycheque or zero is not a really valid idea,” said Ross. His financial disclosure forms reveal $700 million in assets.

(GlobalNews)​
_Not to be outdone by his Commerce Secretary, the Great Cheetoh-in-Chief made sure to issue a statement just as out of touch with reality:_

*Trump: Unpaid federal workers should just go ask grocery stores for free food*

Has Trump shopped for groceries ever in his life?

Today President Donald Trump was asked about Wilbur Ross’s advice to federal workers -- take out loans to pay their bills.

Trump said Ross “should have said it differently,” then went on to say that grocery stores and banks will simply “work along” with furloughed workers.

“They know the people, they've been dealing with them for years,” said Donald Trump.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LMhtUCZoQ[/ame]

(BoingBoing)​
Of course, this is the same buffoon who thought [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgSm0jT4U88"]you needed to have picture ID to shop at a grocery store[/ame].... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hey, the bigot's back!

And, as predicted, with nary an apology, a _mea culpa_, or even the merest acknowledgement of his unbridled hatred.

Nice... XX)

Know this, my _hateful_, agenda-driven little friend:

Your credibility on these boards has taken hit after hit after hit over the years. After the latest little FUBAR, nothing you post, zero, will contain a shred of credibility.

Jes' sayin'...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-blah, blah, blah, blah


----------



## Macfury

CM, you owe those kids an apology.

And the federal workforce should seek a loan--like all other workers.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hey, the bigot's back!
> 
> And, as predicted, with nary an apology, a _mea culpa_, or even the merest acknowledgement of his unbridled hatred.


You don't wear rose-coloured glasses. Yours are some kind of Sauron-inspired flaming crystal which makes justifiable your distorted perspective on the world. it could be a (bad) movie!

Something you have yet to learn, apparently: The fact that I do not continue to engage with you does not mean you have "won" an argument or that I agree with you: it simply means I'm not going to continue to pound my head against the brick wall that is the barrier between you and reality. You aren't worth the effort :lmao:

My position on the Covington confrontation has not changed. Still wondering why a bunch of boys were transported by a private Catholic school to an anti-abortion rally in a different state, and why so many of them had those lovely MAGA hats (the 21st Century version of the Klan hood).

As for *my* credibility: It's all good. If you're the one setting the baseline for credibility, I'm pretty sure I'm sitting pretty.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Bigot.

The reason you no longer engage me is that, like all the other Progs on these boards (and those that have long since left), you regularly get your ass handed to you in an even fight.

Save that your arrogance is stunning, everything else is noise.



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-blah, blah, blah, blah


----------



## FeXL

Speaking of Prog arrogance...

Ted Cruz: Dems Holding Coast Guard Hostage, Could Have Voted On A Clean Bill To Pay Them, But Refused 



> [email protected] brought forward a clean bill that does one thing—it pays the salaries of the Coast Guard.
> 
> If @SenSchumer hadn't objected it would’ve passed. @POTUS could’ve signed it tonight.
> 
> Proof that Head🤡Clown Schumer is holding the @USCG hostage! pic.twitter.com/Ysy00y7T6g
> 
> — Boston🇺🇸Bobblehead (@DBloom451) January 24, 2019​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Something you have yet to learn, apparently: The fact that I do not continue to engage with you does not mean you have "won" an argument or that I agree with you: it simply means I'm not going to continue to pound my head against the brick wall that is the barrier between you and reality. You aren't worth the effort :lmao:


IS that what it looks like to you? For the rest of us, you look like you lose most of the debates you engage in. I see you've changed your story about the Covington kids now. Just admit you were wrong and move on.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Just admit you were wrong and move on.


True acolytes _never_ admit their religion is wrong.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> True acolytes _never_ admit their religion is wrong.


I love the shifting target. He thought the kids had done something they hadn't and now switches to vague suspicions about why they were there. No suspicions about the drum-beating activist with a history of political agitation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump caves. I guess his balls are not as big as Nancy Pelosi’s.










 https://nypost.com/2019/01/25/trump-to-announce-temporary-deal-to-re-open-government/


----------



## Macfury

The Dems have painted themselves into a corner with Pelosi's braying. He needs to give them the three week temporary respite to regroup, or he will get the wall through an emergency measure. I think it's rather gracious of the president.

Like you, Freddie, I would have continued the shutdown.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> ...now switches to vague suspicions about why they were there...


The ultimate irony.

It's still a free country, idn't it?

Not if the _progressive thinkers_ get hold of it, I guess...


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> MAGA hats (the 21st Century version of the Klan hood).


That's pretty hateful, but it reminded me of this video.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNJO7gWKeOw[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> That's pretty hateful, but it reminded me of this video.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNJO7gWKeOw


What about that stupid commie hat in CM's avatar? The symbol of 100 million people killed by communists in the 20th century?


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> What about that stupid commie hat in CM's avatar? The symbol of 100 million people killed by communists in the 20th century?


Not to mention the POS under the hat.

A lot of people are like SNL's churchlady, seeing Satan/Hate in everything. I don't remember churchlady sacrificing kids to a mob over (gasp) being potentially disrespectful, but she wanted to. You could see it in her darned smirk.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Another perspective


----------



## Macfury

What makes Loreto more fun for Mexicans, Freddie?


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk drumbeats s'more!

Can't let go of those drumbeats



> A lot of people have been criticizing the Covington boys for not understanding that Nathan Phillips was praying for them from the moment he came among them beating on his drum, followed by a camera crew and a guy telling them that whites should all go back to Europe. Such irresponsible ignorance of Native American culture!


More:



> On the other hand, maybe there is something President Trump could learn from the peaceful, prayerful drumming of Nathan Phillips. The President responded to complaints about increasingly rare formal White House press briefings by saying, "The reason Sarah Sanders does not go to the 'podium' much anymore is that the press covers her so rudely & inaccurately, in particular certain members of the press. I told her not to bother, the word gets out anyway! . . "
> 
> John Hayward has an idea:
> 
> * Suggestion: have Sanders answer all future questions by walking up to reporters and banging a drum in their faces. Apparently that's soothing and you are required to show polite respect to people who do it.*​


Bold mine.

:lmao::lmao::clap::clap::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Here's the "girl" who is having her ass kicked in three weeks--except she looks like this all the time:


----------



## FeXL

Yep. Another Prog narrative shot to hell.

Texas finds 98,000 non-citizen registrations and 58,000 illegal votes. Imagine California...



> Democrats and their press allies are always yelling about voter fraud being a miniscule "actually very rare," practically non-existent thing, a figment of fevered conservative imaginations. But state election officials in Texas have uncovered a whopping 98,000 illegal voter registrations from non-citizens, with more than half - 58,000 - actually casting ballots. Seems the problem is bigger than was imagined, even -- on the right. The story is being covered by the mainstream press. WFAA, a big Texas radio station, had this:
> 
> About 95,000 non-citizens are registered to vote in Texas, and more than half of those have cast ballots in at least one election, Texas Secretary of State David Whitley announced on Friday.
> 
> Whitley's office, along with the Texas Department of Public Safety, had been investigating possible voter fraud for the last year, according to a news release.
> 
> Of the 95,000 non-citizens registered, 58,000 have voted in one or more elections since 1996.
> 
> The Secretary of State's office found those numbers by collecting current DPS data of people who have applied for a driver's license or state identification card in the last five years with a green card of visa. The investigators then cross-referenced that data with people who are registered to vote.​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

From Tink on another forum:

"You need the wall. Now we can all play games and we can all talk about technology, I know more about technology than anybody. If you don't have the wall, the technology doesn't work. First of all, the wall is based on...I mean...it's all based...Any technology, works only with the wall."

https://twitter.com/mcspocky/status/1090105004667650049


Well that explains that. And he certainly seems to know what he's talking about, I mean NO ONE knows more about technology than him.


----------



## Macfury

What part are you having difficulty understanding, Biff?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What part are you having difficulty understanding, Biff?


Freddie thought the only Scottish Star Trek character was the engineer... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

So, there was only a single Dem who didn't vote for reopening the gov't. Guess who...

Ocasio-Cortez was the only Dem to vote ‘no’ on bill to reopen the government



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was the lone House Democrat Wednesday to vote against leadership-backed bills to reopen the government because she opposes money for Immigration and Customs Enforcement or additional border security measures.


Can't be losing any of her illegal alien voters now, can she?


----------



## 18m2

The Trump Tracker: How his 1st 2 years have gone.



> The first two years of the Trump White House have been eventful, to say the least. But let's ignore the drama and instead focus on the numbers.
> We're tracking the president's progress on his agenda and how it is received by the American public and the wider world.
> And there are interesting - and surprising - comparisons with some of his predecessors.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38663043


----------



## FeXL

Nope. No way. Not a problem with gang members illegally crossing the border. Not a chance...

Border Patrol: Watch This Video Of 110+ Migrants Scaling Border Wall; MS-13 Gang Members Arrested



> U.S. Customs and Border Protection Arizona released footage Wednesday showing over a hundred illegal immigrants scaling the southern border wall in the Yuma sector. The illegal actions of the "110+" migrants ended in their arrest Monday. Shortly after posting the surveillance footage, *CBP Arizona announced that they had detained two MS-13 gang members a day later.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

Metaphor Alert: Newseum closing DC location after facing “unsustainable operating costs”



> The Newseum is a non-profit museum in Washington, DC devoted to journalism. They just sold their massive building to Johns Hopkins University and will now look for a new location. It will remain open at its current address through the end of this year.


----------



## FeXL

18m2 said:


> The Trump Tracker: How his 1st 2 years have gone.


It's difficult to take anything the BBC (just another member of the lefty media cartel) says about Trump seriously.

Reading that article you'd think Trump was the worst POTUS evah! The truth is far from it.


----------



## FeXL

Poll: Nancy Pelosi's Favorability Plummeted During the Shutdown



> A new poll by NBC News/Wall Street Journal shows a plummeting approval rate for Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
> 
> Pelosi’s approval rate dropped by six points during the 35-day government shutdown, as 47 percent of Americans surveyed rated Pelosi as "very negative," while only 28 percent rated her favorably.


And Trump's remained unchanged.

Curious, that...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

18m2 said:


> The Trump Tracker: How his 1st 2 years have gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38663043




Not exactly a stellar report card so far. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## Macfury

Undoing Obama and going in the exact opposite direction that "Madame President" promised never stood a chance of impressing you, Biff!


----------



## FeXL

Not exactly an accurate report card, either.

I'd post links w/ data to the contrary but yer far more interested in a Prog narrative than the truth.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not exactly a stellar report card so far. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## 18m2

Macfury said:


> Undoing Obama and going in the exact opposite direction that "Madame President" promised never stood a chance of impressing you, Biff!


I don't believe he has been able to unwind ObamaCare.


----------



## FeXL

There goes another Prog narrative.

Washington Post Poll: Most Americans Don't Support Impeachment, Most Have "Some or No" Confidence in Mueller's Fairness



> This poll just kicked a lot of sand into a lot of vaginas.
> 
> After pushing the poll results they like (the public is generally supportive of investigating, which they always are), NPCWeek admits:
> 
> Despite this, 55 percent of participants overall said that they would be opposed to Congress initiating impeachment proceedings against the President, with just 40 percent supporting such moves.​


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Hillary Clinton Is Telling Friends She Just Might Run in 2020



> The real news here is that she has friends. I thought she spent all of her time getting slobberknockered on chardonnay and haunting the woods, like a sasquatch that can't navigate stairs.
> 
> "Clinton is telling people that she's not closing the doors to the idea of running in 2020," Zeleny said. "I'm told by three people that as recently as this week, she was telling people that look, given all this news from the indictments, particularly the Roger Stone indictment, she talked to several people, saying 'look, I'm not closing the doors to this.'"​


More:



> Can she hold on to her most passionate supporters, by which I mean Ben Shapiro, Jonah Goldberg, David French, Hugh Hewitt, JV Last, and the rest of NeverTrump? Time will tell.


:lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Blue Check Mafia Tweeting Out Fake News, as Usual, Despite Twitter's Claim That It Wants to Reduce Fake News;
A "CNN Contributor" Joins in the FakeNews Bonanza



> Suspiciously On-the-Nose "Possible Hate Crime" with Men in Chicago Bellowing Gay and Racial Slurs and Declaring "This is MAGA Country!" (It Is? Chicago?!) Puts Nation's Conservatives on Alert to See if the Cucks Who Never Learn Will Once Again Rush to Tweet a Sketchy Story Out
> 
> We're told when shortly after he walked out, someone yelled, "Aren't you that f***ot 'Empire' n*****?"​
> What "MAGA" people watch the black hip-hop soap opera drama "Empire"?, is what some people are wondering. I find this quote very believable, like "This is Trump Country, ****, and we prefer Steven Sondheim musicals to those of Andrew Lloyd Webber 'round these parts, dickrider!!!"


Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## FeXL

Hope she's got lots of ammo.

Kamala Harris: I'm Coming for Your Guns and Your Private Medical Insurance



> Enough is enough. We cannot wait for the next tragedy to act on gun violence. pic.twitter.com/qTDPFyaFKv
> — Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) January 29, 2019​
> She wants to take away private medical insurance and put everyone on the famously popular Medicaid.


More:



> By the way, she's a bit of a whore.
> 
> I'm sorry, I meant "floozy." A floozy who just happens to sleep with her married boss and get all sorts of career benefits from that arrangement.


Sounds like a Prog to me...


----------



## FeXL

This one sounds like a Prog.

Defeated Florida Gubernatorial Hopeful Andrew Gillum Found To Have Accepted Bribes Gifts From Lobbyists, Contradicting His Campaign-Season Claims



> Actually this was evident before, not that Arbiter of Truth and "The National Hall-Monitor" (as I think Instapundit calls it) CNN noticed.
> 
> But now an government ethics commission officially rules he took bribes gifts, and finds that there's probable cause of a crime.
> 
> The five counts being leveled against Gillum all relate to trips he took with lobbyist and former friend Adam Corey before Gillum launched his gubernatorial campaign. The trips also coincided with attempts by undercover FBI agents investigating public corruption to get close to Gillum.​


More:



> So he lied. He claimed his brother had given him the ticket, but he had acknowledged in an email that a lobbyist and an FBI agent posing as a lobbyist had secured the ticket for him.


Definitely a Prog.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Another one of Barry's Charlie Foxtrots fixed.

Pardoned ranchers who inspired Oregon occupation win back grazing permits



> Dwight and Steven Hammond’s journey from ranchers to convicted domestic terrorists back to ranchers concluded this week when the federal government reissued permits allowing the father and son to graze cattle again on public land.
> 
> A Bureau of Land Management spokesman confirmed Tuesday that the agency had reinstated grazing permits for Hammond Ranches in Harney County, Oregon, who received full pardons from President Trump in July.
> 
> The Hammonds were sentenced to five-year mandatory minimum sentences in 2015 under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act for two prescribed burns that spread to public land, a sentence that stoked outrage in the rural West.
> 
> Public Lands Council president Bob Skinner and National Cattlemen’s Beef Association president Kevin Kester called the reinstated permits “the final step in righting the egregious injustices the Hammonds faced.”


----------



## Macfury

18m2 said:


> I don't believe he has been able to unwind ObamaCare.


He ended the individual mandate that forced individuals to buy insurance from private companies. With that plank removed, the entire system is slowly unwinding. Now that the mandate is gone, purchasing insurance is no longer considered a "tax" -- an interpretation that was essential to the legitimacy of Obamacare. Many states are looking to court challenges that will overturn the program at the federal level. 

Trump may not have overturned it all at once, but Obama's signature achievement is dying a death by a thousand cuts.


----------



## eMacMan

Obamacare was about as bad a solution as Congress could have created.

It essentially gave insurance companies free license to price a large number of middle class individuals out of the market.

It did not address the inefficiencies of the system.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

Too radical for the Progs? No wonder The Bigot likes her.

Are Democrats Trying to Make Ocasio-Cortez a One Term Congresswoman?



> _The Hill_ reported this morning that Congressional Democrats have grown so angry with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) that they want to recruit someone to primary her:
> 
> At least one House Democrat has been privately urging members of the New York delegation to recruit a local politician from the Bronx or Queens to challenge Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> “What I have recommended to the New York delegation is that you find her a primary opponent and make her a one-term congressperson,” the Democratic lawmaker, who requested anonymity, told The Hill. “You’ve got numerous council people and state legislators who’ve been waiting 20 years for that seat. I’m sure they can find numerous people who want that seat in that district.”​
> Ocasio-Cortez took everyone by surprise in the summer of 2018 when she defeated veteran Joseph Crowley. However, looking at the numbers, *the primary produced a dismal turnout with only 27,658 votes, which means less than 12% of the voters came out. Ocasio-Cortez received 15,897 of those votes.*
> 
> The insider told _The Hill_ that Ocasio-Cortez is “pissing off a lot of people,” mostly allies of Crowley. This insider mentioned Elizabeth Crowley, Joseph’s cousin, since she “is a woman” and has “been moving more to the left.”


Bold mine.

<7% of eligible voters voted for A Occasional Cortex. A stunning endorsement... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

(Wanna see how I did the math, Freddie?)


----------



## FeXL

Border Patrol Wives Issue Formal Proposal For Nancy Pelosi In Brutal Letter



> The letter from the significant others goes on to rip "weak" Pelosi for her refusal to negotiate with Trump and for "pretending" to care about federal workers:
> 
> For the record, many of us have saved for these days. We've faced many shutdowns before. But, we also recognize a weak leader when we see one, and we realize you may take awhile to come around.
> 
> We'd also appreciate if you'd stop pretending that you care about federal workers. If you did, you would care for their safety, not just their paychecks. We can hold out awhile longer, if it means our husbands and communities are safer.​
> The brutal letter ends with the wives offering Pelosi a pair of her own "big girl pants."
> 
> *"Also, it appears you do not own a pair of big girl pants. Do not worry, us [border patrol] wives own many pairs. In fact, that's all we own! We'd love to give you a pair of ours, you know we'd buy you your own, but we we're trying not to spend right now," it says. "We look forward to seeing you soon!"*


Bold mine.

Beautiful... :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

That's gonna raise hell at Nat Review...

Crisis of Citizenship



> Kevin Williamson;
> 
> As some of you may recall, I wrote a little book called The Case against Trump. I didn’t think much of him in 2016. I don’t think much of him now. But we aren’t three tweets away from the Holocaust. Nobody seriously believes that we are, unless they are insane. Sane people who insist that the United States in 2019 is something like Germany in the 1930s are liars. They don’t really believe it. They have an investment in hysteria.
> 
> 
> *Those of you who play along with that — who enjoy being lied to and manipulated — are pathetic in the literal sense of that word. What the hell is wrong with you?*​


Bold mine.

The Progs don't like it when you go against the narrative.


----------



## Macfury

Was getting a bit worried about Trump looking the other way while his deep-staters and California Dems hand-picked more left wing kooks to fill 9th circuit vacancies. He's on it!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/30/poli...ppeals-nominees-white-house-judges/index.html



> After a day of attacks from commentators on the right, the White House announced Wednesday night that it planned to nominate three judges for the California seats on the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals.
> 
> The left-leaning 9th Circuit has been a frequent target of President Donald Trump, but when the White House last week announced its plans to renominate dozens of judges who had not received a hearing during the last Congress, those who had been previously nominated for the 9th Circuit weren't on the list.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Was getting a bit worried about Trump looking the other way while his deep-staters and California Dems hand-picked more left wing kooks to fill 9th circuit vacancies. He's on it!


Just read about that this morning.

Further:

Trump heard the conservative media outcry, nominates three judges for 9th Circuit



> There was a huge outcry in conservative media over the past couple of days regarding a deal allegedly being worked out with liberal Democrat Senators Dianne Feinstein and Kamala Harris, as to nominees to fill vacancies.
> 
> We covered the issue in Trump has opportunity to flip the 9th Circuit, so why isn’t he? Rush Limbaugh covered it today, linking to our post.
> 
> Someone was listening.
> 
> Tonight, Trump announced he was nominating three judges to the 9th Circuit, including two who had been previously nominated.


----------



## FeXL

_Still_ no Russkies?

Model Admits She Made Up Russian Collusion Story About Trump To Get Out Of Jail



> A Belarusian model who originally said she had secret recordings that tied President Donald Trump to Russian tycoon Oleg Deripaska and showed collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign now says she lied.
> 
> Anastasia Vashukevich, who goes by the alias Nastya Rybka on the internet, told CNN in a report published Tuesday that she made up the whole story as a means of getting out of a Thai prison last year.


Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's foreign policy legacy s'more!

Top Saudi official: Barack Obama lied, set Middle East back 20 years



> Former US president Barack Obama lied to Saudi Arabia when violating the redlines he famously declared regarding Syria’s use of chemical weapons and then not acting when they were used, a former senior Saudi official said in an interview with Independent Arabia.
> 
> Bandar bin Sultan served for years as head of Saudi intelligence as well as the Saudi ambassador to the United States. In the interview, he recalled a last phone call between the late Saudi King Abdullah and Obama, during which the Saudi leader told the US president: *“I did not expect that [after] this long life, I would see [the day] when an American president lies to me.”*


Bold mine.

A Prog politician lying? Shocka...

More:



> Obama, bin Sultan said, “would promise something and do the opposite.” He said that *the president took the Middle East back 20 years* and also spoke critically of the Iran nuclear deal and how the former president spoke publicly about curbing Iran’s activities, but then went behind Saudi Arabia’s back and negotiated the nuclear deal.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Mint Chip - Learn 2 Code | Official Music Video


----------



## CubaMark

*Yup.*

*Trump set to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia within hours*
_
Withdrawal described by Mikhail Gorbachev as 'not the work of a great mind'_

XX)


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Yup.*
> 
> *Trump set to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia within hours*
> _
> Withdrawal described by Mikhail Gorbachev as 'not the work of a great mind'_
> 
> XX)


Sounds like Russia was not following the treaty. Russia obviously does things their own way, not sure what would bring or make Russia back into compliance. It is a country that is notorious for breaking the rules. The Olympics is an example of that.

Something does need to be worked out to prevent another arms race, just not sure what can entice Russia to get back in line.


----------



## Macfury

When you've lost Gorby, what's left?



CubaMark said:


> *Yup.*
> 
> *Trump set to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia within hours*
> _
> Withdrawal described by Mikhail Gorbachev as 'not the work of a great mind'_
> 
> XX)


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Sounds like Russia was not following the treaty.


There ya go, being all logical again...

You know that hurts Prog heads.


----------



## FeXL

Ya know, it's funny & sad at the same time.

My whole life I've been reading about how some southerners marry their cousins & jokes are made about inbreeding & everybody kind of laughs it off.

Then you get a situation whereby an American politician marries _her own brother_ & what do you get from the Progs? Crickets...

Heinous crime or horrible smear? 



> Either way... this certainly bears further investigation...
> 
> Minnesota state Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-60B) has stated that she did marry "British citizen" Ahmed Nur Said Elmi in 2009, though the allegation that he is her brother is "absurd and offensive." Exclusive new evidence -- from official archived high school records and corroborating sources -- strongly supports the claim that Ahmed Nur Said Elmi is indeed her brother.
> 
> The motivation for the marriage remains unclear. However, the totality of the evidence points to possible immigration fraud and student loan fraud.
> 
> As this implicates Rep. Omar in multiple state and federal felonies, I have contacted the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Minnesota to submit all other information uncovered during our investigation.​


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the new Dem abortion bill some.

No small irony:

Sen. Sherrod Brown Complains That Trump Rips Babies from Families on Same Day His Party Pushes for Infanticide



> The Democratic Party, which used to demure that they want abortion to be "safe, legal, and rare," has abandoned that (comparatively) moderate position (which was a lie anyway) for what appears to be full-on infanticide.


First comment:



> In an interview with radio station WTOP, out of Washington, D.C., Northam described how he envisioned the extremely late-term abortions would work in response to a question by NBC4 Northern Virginia bureau chief Julie Carey:
> 
> So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that is what the mother and the family desired, *and then a discussion would ensue.*


Are we talking *infanticide* here? :yikes:

So Let's See How the True Conservatism That Mrs. Bill Kristol Donated to Get Elected Is Doing in Virginia



> The Democrats are pushing for straight-up infanticide, and they're emboldened enough to not even bothering hiding it any longer.


Continuation of Last Thread: NeverTrump Favorite, Governor Ralph Northam, Endorses Post-Birth Abortion (AKA Murder)



> How many leftwing media types are going to quiz all of the Democrat Presidential hopefuls about whether they agree with Northam's stance on post-birth murder?
> 
> How about zero? Does zero sound like a plausible number?


Yes.

Language warning.

Some More True Cons Who Have Decided Post-Natal Murder Is Now Like Totally What Reagan Would've Wanted



> Here's another Expert and True Conservative, who totally believes in all the conservative principles.
> 
> Except... see, the thing is, arguing about abortion is _rude_ and so we don't do that. It would be upsetting to our liberal friends to fight for this issue, so we just issue gauzy statements about it and then do absolutely nothing about it, ever.
> 
> But we pretend -- and shouldn't _pretending_ to care about conservative principles suffice for The Rubes?
> 
> And sure, okay, sometimes, we openly support a pro-infanticide candidate, just to prove to our liberal friends what Reasonable Conservatives (TM) we are.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Then you get a situation whereby an American politician marries _her own brother_ & what do you get from the Progs? Crickets...


SorryNotSorry that I'm not going to waste my time chasing down a rumour based on a since=deleted post on a message board by anti-muslim wingnuts that have so far provided zero actual facts / evidence / documentation. Until they do, well, you can squack all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

Come back to us when your pals at _littlemortkittens_ have something to show us... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

WTF are you going on about now?


----------



## FeXL

Another Prog narrative falls by the wayside.

Donald Trump, Jr.'s Phone Calls Before and After Meeting With Veselnitskya Were Not To His Father, as NeverTrump and Liberal (BIRM) Conspiracist Theorists Hoped, But to an Business Friends of Don Jr.'s



> The Conspiracy Theorists needed this to be a call from Don Jr. to Trump to prove that Trump was suuuuuper-interested in Veselniskya's FusionGPS-coordinated lobbying, and that everyone was lying when they said Trump didn't have advanced knowledge of the meeting and the calls weren't to him.
> 
> Is this another one of Adam Schiff's much-advertised "proofs" of collusion?


Sorry, soyboiz. _Still_ no Russkies... :lmao:


----------



## Beej

This should help people understand U.S. political rhetoric.

https://babylonbee.com/news/guide-to-facial-expressions



> We consulted with over five hundred facial expression experts, showing them various images and asking them to identify which ones were a normal human emotion and which ones were literally Hitler.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Sounds like Russia was not following the treaty. Russia obviously does things their own way, not sure what would bring or make Russia back into compliance. It is a country that is notorious for breaking the rules. The Olympics is an example of that.
> 
> Something does need to be worked out to prevent another arms race, just not sure what can entice Russia to get back in line.


Comes down to this. Russia has very little to gain from new and improved medium range missiles. The only real threat to Russian security lies well outside the range of the missiles covered by this treaty.

OTOH The US is continually upping its nuclear presence on the Russian and Chinese doorsteps and obviously has a lot more to gain than the Russians. 

Interesting too that the US turned down Russian offers of unhindered inspections and has offered zero proof of Russian failure to comply.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> This should help people understand U.S. political rhetoric.


Beat me to it. :clap:

Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

And nary a peep from the _progressive thinkers_.

Pennsylvania gov't admits that more than 11,000 non-US citizens were registered to vote. Democratic governor tried to block the info. 



> More than 11,000 people who were registered to vote in Pennsylvania were found to not be citizens of the United States — and the state's Democratic governor didn't want anyone to know about it.


More:



> On Dec. 3, the Pennsylvania Department of State sent a letter to Metcalfe, which indicated that a "possible" 11,198 voter registrations existed for people who were identified by the state as non-citizens.
> 
> Pennsylvania is considered a crucial state for the 2020 presidential election.
> 
> Metcalfe told the Washington Times that he believed "we need to take action and have those people removed immediately from the rolls," adding "[t]hey were never eligible to vote."


Imagine the hue & cry from the _progressive thinkers_ if all these illegal voters cast their ballots for Republicans?


----------



## FeXL

So, first off you get a knob like "Coonman" Northam just being...well, a Prog. Then in order to deflect attention to the other guys, you get obfuscation like this from the Clinton News Network:

This Is CNN

And, _and_, for anybody who thinks that this was an honest mistake, have I got some swampland and a bridge for you.

Related:

Media Death Spiral: McClatchy Announces That 10% of Its Staff Will Have to Learn To Code In The Next Few Weeks
Flashback: "Coonman" Northam Refused to Shake Black Opponent's Hand



> Coonman Fears Cooties: That time he refused to touch a black man's hand.


Ralph "Coonman" Northam: Like O.J. Simpson, I'm Searching For The Real Criminal



> After admitting yesterday that it was him in the picture (though he couldn't remember if he was the one in the Klan robes or the blackface), Northam is now saying, "Oh wait, that's right, I remember better now, neither of them are me."


Governor Coonman Press Conference Thread



> He says he's now remembered that he wasn't in the photo, even though just last night he remembered he was in the photo, and won't resign, even though reports were that he was planning to.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Coonman.

If Anyone Could Deserve This, Northam Does



> When you see someone ripped to pieces by a pack of jackals, it is hard not to feel sympathetic. Don’t waste any tears on Ralph Northam though.
> 
> *Demands that his entire life be destroyed over a politically incorrect yearbook photo from the 1980s are absurd and unjust.*


Bold mine.

I recall thinking that same thought when I first read about the photograph. For about a split second. Then I thought of the Kavanaugh debacle (among other things) & I immediately came to my senses. 

Screw 'im. The only way to treat these bastards is precisely the same fashion they treat us. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. 

Bu-bye, Ralphie...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> The only way to treat these bastards is precisely the same fashion they treat us. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
> 
> Bu-bye, Ralphie...


I agree as well. There's a bit of knee jerk sympathy until you realize what a devoted prog Northam is. Sweet that he's being eaten by his own. The rest of us are just laughing at him.


----------



## FeXL

Fairfax, Coonman, Jussie...Oh, My!!!

#BelieveAllWomen: A Woman Went to the Washington Post Alleging That Virginia Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax Had Sexually Assaulted Her, But The Newspaper Refused to Publish



> The site "Big League Politics" shared a private post from a woman who said an office holder who assaulted her at the the Democratic National Convention was about to get "a very big promotion." She says her attacker won a statewide office in 2017.
> 
> On Monday morning, Fairfax released a tweet that said "the person reported to be making this false allegation first approached the Washington Post ... after being presented with facts consistent with the Lt. Governor's denial of the allegation, the absence of any evidence corroborating the allegation, and significant red flags and inconsistencies with the allegation, the Post made the considered decision to not publish the story."
> 
> Fairfax says he will take legal action at anyone "attempting to spread this defamatory and false allegation."


The Washington Post Did _Not_ Find "Significant Red Flags and Inconsistencies" In Justin Fairfax Sexual Assault Allegation, as a Fairfax Press Release Falsely Averred; It Merely Found No Corroboration



> Again, corroboration was not needed in the Bret Kavanaugh case.
> 
> The Post did not find “significant red flags and inconsistencies within the allegations,” as the Fairfax statement incorrectly said. https://t.co/aAGI5Nb75u
> — Robert Costa (@costareports) February 4, 2019​
> So he lied about what the Post found? What was it that DaNang Dick said...?
> 
> *Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus.*
> 
> Lie about one thing, lying about everything.
> 
> Fairfax is not denying that there was a sexual encounter, only that he applied force to make it happen.


Emphasis from the link.

More:



> The third tweet below is by Andrew Egger, a fey ginger cuck formerly of the Weekly Standard and now at The Bulwark. *He declares that anyone noting that the Post did not need corroboration to publish the Kavanaugh smears but earlier said it did require them to publish the Fairfax allegations should never be read again.*
> 
> In other words: yet another stab at deplatforming by people who have completely joined the left, but won't admit that, because there's no money in being Just Another Leftwing Hack but some money (Pierre Omidyar's, to be specific) in being a "concerned conservative" who just happens to support every Democrat candidate.


Bold mine.

Best. New Year. Ever.: _Fairfax Suggests That Northam Is Behind Sexual Assault Claim; Also Claims Woman Involved Was "Very Interested in Me"_



> She was begging for it, your honor.
> 
> If it please the court, she was like Jussie Smollet and My Dick was like a Subway Meatball Parm.


:yikes::lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

It's truly unfortunate that CM's name isn't on that list somewhere...

YASSS: Evidence-Preservation Letters Sent to 54 Individuals and Organizations in the Covington Kids Defamation Suit



> The letters were sent to the following media entities on Friday:


More:



> The lawyers also released a video called 15 Minutes to Learn the Truth, which is just a short 15 minute video of what really happened at the incident. They're releasing that to prove how easy it would have been for these "reporters" to have actually confirmed or debunked the stories. This therefore establishes that they were grossly, wilfully negligent in not even taking fifteen minutes before defaming children and exposing them to hatred, doxxing, intimidation and threats of assault and even death.


I hope they get their asses handed to them.


----------



## FeXL

Doc Zero/John Hayward: If At This Late Stage Our NeverTrump/Cuck "Conservative Thinker" Friends Do Not Understand The Democrat Party Is Evil and Wants To Harm Us, Then In What Way Are They "Conservatives" Or Even "Thinkers"?



> I don't understand how anyone who claims to be conservative needed to hear Democrats openly endorse infanticide in order to realize Dems are extremists on abortion and no one with respect for life can vote for them in good conscience.
> 
> This stuff about making the infant comfortable while you decide whether or not to kill her isn't a bolt from the blue. It's not a shocking aberration. It's the logical conclusion of Democrat abortion politics. It's not that much different than stuff Obama said about abortion.
> 
> It should have been obvious as all hell to any reasonably engaged conservative -- and most definitely to all professional pundits -- that Democrats are all-in on late-term and born-alive abortion. They only pretend otherwise to avoid scaring moderates away during elections years.
> 
> How many clues did you True Conservatives need to understand this? How many times did you have to see Dems creep up to infanticide and then scamper away when they saw too much of the public recoil in disgust? How much abortion money did you need to see flowing into Dem coffers?


Not a surprise to anybody paying attention.

On deck? Legalizing pedophilia...


----------



## FeXL

When the FBI does it...

DOCUMENTS SHOW CNN WAS TIPPED OFF on Roger Stone Arrest by 29 FBI Armed Agents – Leaked by Deep State!



> Roger Stone Attorneys Provide Evidence of Justice Department Special Counsel Leak Ahead Of Conservative Author and Activist’s Arrest
> 
> Just over a week after his televised arrest was carried exclusively by CNN, attorneys for the longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone have sent a letter to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees detailing how some reporters may have received an early draft copy of the indictment.


Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

So, by all reasonable standards, the SOTU was a home run. :clap::clap::clap:

The women all dressed in white either forgot their hoods or were emulating one of Maggy Atwood's characters. And, how painful it must have been to give a standing ovation to Trump. 

Ouch.

And, Pelosi looked like a horse worrying its bit... :lmao:

Awrite, let's talk Fauxcahontas some.

Fauxcahontas



> Awkward.


Just a wee bit of an understatement.

Related:

The Epic Fraud of Elizabeth Warren



> Elizabeth Warren has claimed that she never used her supposed native American heritage for professional advantage, though the circumstantial evidence suggests otherwise. Late this afternoon the Bezos Bulletin reported (though not until the 8th paragraph, with no hint of the key fact in the headline or the lede) that Warren did in fact claim to be “American Indian” in her own handwriting in her application to the Texas Bar in 1986


More:



> Oh, and her “scholarship” is rather fraudulent, too, as Gail Heriot explored in this paper from 2006.


Related, too:

Elizabeth Warren Claimed to be a Native American on Her Texas Bar Application



> Remember, she's always maintained that she did not advertise her "family lore" of being 1/1024th American Indian for purposes of swiping diversity slots from actual Indians.
> 
> After this story heated up, she admitted she had told Harvard and U. Penn that she was a Native American... but (wink, wink) only _after_ they'd hired her.


Related, three:


----------



## FeXL

Now, let's talk Fairfax some.

Bernie Sanders Comically Pretends to be On the Phone, Even Though His Phone Display Shows No Current Call, In Order to Avoid Answering if He Believes Vanessa Tyson, Justin Fairfax's Accuser



> Bernie is back and and this time he is taking fake phone calls to dodge questions about if he believes Lt. Gov Justin Fairfax’s accuser... WATCH THIS: pic.twitter.com/y6n83qPKit
> — Henry Rodgers (@henryrodgersdc) February 5, 2019​


Related:

Democratic Senators Refuse To Acknowledge Virginia Lieutenant Gov. Fairfax Sexual Assault Accuser



> Democratic senators on Capitol Hill refused to acknowledge the sexual assault allegations that have emerged against Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax when asked by The Daily Caller News Foundation Tuesday.
> 
> When asked if Fairfax’s accuser should be believed, every senator asked, dodged the question or acted like they had not heard the news, despite the fact it has been major national news for multiple days.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Hypocrites...


----------



## FeXL

How about a couple on Coonman?

The Northam Debacle



> It is a fitting nightmare for a party that is all about “identity.”


It sure is.

More:



> The liberal apoplexy about the Northam debacle is a reminder that the Democrats obsess not over sound policies but the preservation of politically useful images. They don’t want to lose any ground to a president whom they routinely smear as a racist. They live in dread fear of losing a monopoly on the black vote, a monopoly based not upon substantive achievements but on the successful manipulation of identity politics.


Related:

Racist Lynch Mob-Leading Virginia Governor Getting His Just Deserts



> After a tumultuous weekend in which high-profile Democrats demanded that Virginia governor Ralph Northam step down after old photos of him in blackface surfaced, it is difficult to imagine the politician surviving the same vile race-baiting gotcha culture he and his fellow left-wing Democrats have fostered for years.
> 
> Oddly, Northam is being done in by leftist identity politics and not by the Kermit Gosnell-style infanticide he coldly supports.
> 
> Many conservatives believe that the sickening irony here is that Democrats are fine with snipping the spine of a nearly born black baby but go insane over blackface, an offensive practice that doesn't actually kill anyone.


Not incurious, idn't it...


----------



## FeXL

How about lefty political sexual harassers, period?

The Best Place for a Sexual Harasser is in a 2020 Democrat Presidential Candidate’s Office



> Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer was forced to dump Communications Director Matt House for “inappropriate encounters” with staffers.
> 
> House had been Schumer's press secretary after working on Joe Biden's presidential campaign.
> 
> Biden isn’t the only Democrat in the 2020 race with sexually creepy staffers.


More:



> We don’t know who the Democratic nominee in 2020 will be. But the odds are good that whether it’s a man or a woman, white or black, there will be at least one sexual harasser standing proudly behind him.


Huh. There's something about those _progressive thinkers_...


----------



## FeXL

And more on Fauxcahontas!

YOU GUYS
IT'S HAPPENING
IT'S REALLY HAPPENING



> Warren suggests other documents might come out on which she claimed to be Native American.
> 
> "This was consistent with what I did" at the time, she says.
> — Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) February 6, 2019​


More:



> They can't spike this stuff because if they do, their fellow Democrats will rat them out for having been delivered verified stories but choosing to sit on them.
> 
> And their fellow Democrats would have the receipts.
> 
> And their fellow Democrats' claims _actually matter_, because they're not Deplorables.
> 
> Best year ever?
> 
> *Best. Year. Ever.*


Emphasis from the link.


----------



## FeXL

And more Virginia Dem blackfaces!

Best. Year. Ever.: Democrat Virginia AG, Third in Line of Succession, ALSO Has a Blackface Photo Problem



> Does the Virginia Attorney General, Mark Herring, who is third in the line of succession if both Northam and Fairfax are forced to resign, and also a Democrat (of course), *also* have a Blackface Photo Problem?
> 
> We don't know for sure yet but the answer is "Yes."


Related (language warning):

Virginia's Democrat Lieutenant Governor Lies and Claims His Accuser Was "Inconsistent" In Her Story (She Wasn't), Then Privately Says "**** THAT BITCH" Behind Closed Doors



> The party that loves the blacks is all wearing blackface, and the party that loves the women is forcing them to perform oral sex and then saying "**** THAT BITCH" when they squeal.


So how does this all add up?

Related, too:

Ken Cuchinelli: Here's How Virginia's Succession Law Works



> Suddenly, [after the revelation that AG Mark Herring also wore blackface brown make-up], *Democrats like Sen. Mark Warner, who were calling for Northam to resign are pointedly not calling for Herring to resign. Why? Because he is the last of the three Democrats in the order of succession to the governor’s office. Next in line would be the Republican speaker of the House, Kirk Cox.*​


Bold mine.

:yikes:beejacon:clap:...

And, Fairfax's accuser's statement:

Vanessa Tyson Releases Statement, Alleging What Many Jurisdictions Would Call Straight-Up Rape



> The claims, as she states them, constitute forcible rape in many jurisdictions, and forcible sodomy in most others. Some jurisdictions reserve "rape" to vaginal penetration, but others say rape is any forcible sexual penetration, including forcible sodomy.


So, Progs, I'm wondering. Does the above statement describe merely rape or rape-rape?

Jes' askin'...


----------



## FeXL

Now, let's talk that standard by which lesser Prog cities are measured, New York!!!

First:

Nothing to see here folks.



> Just the Muslim Community Patrol of Brooklyn. In cars looking remarkably similar to the NYPD. And blue ‘police style’ uniforms. Just religious patrols masquerading as police. Nothing to see. Please move along.


Second:

Brutal MS-13 Murder On NYC Subway In Ocasio-Cortez's District Goes Viral. She's Called For The Abolition Of ICE.



> A gruesome video of a gang-related murder on the New York City subway has gone viral. A suspected MS-13 gang member shot a member of a rival gang in the face numerous times in a daytime shooting on Sunday. The suspected gang member has since been arrested.
> 
> The incident occurred on the 7 train subway platform in Queens, which is in Democratic darling Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s district.


More:



> Notably, Ocasio-Cortez has been an outspoken advocate for the abolition of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). MS-13 is a murderous gang comprised of mainly immigrants from El Salvador, and the suspect in Sunday’s murder was previously arrested by ICE.


Related:

NYPD tried to hide MS-13 gangster accused of subway slaying



> He’s an MS-13 gangster and illegal immigrant accused of murdering a rival on a subway platform — but you wouldn’t even recognize him on the street if the NYPD had its way.
> 
> Cops bent over backward Tuesday to shield alleged killer Ramiro Gutierrez from public scrutiny after his arrest for Sunday’s broad-daylight slaying in Queens — going so far as to feed reporters bogus information about his whereabouts and claim ignorance on his illegal status hours before President Trump’s State of the Union Address renewing his request for a border wall.


Once again, can't have that Prog narrative fractured...

Third:

Don’t Embarrass the Criminals!



> New York governor Andrew Cuomo is urging the exemption of mugshot photos and arrest booking information from public disclosure under New York’s freedom of information laws. This is understandable, given the impressive montage that might be made from mugshots of one-time Cuomo aides, advisors, and associates now on their way to prison, but it nevertheless raises serious civil-liberties issues around press freedom and public information—and it seems like yet another gubernatorial pander toward the Democratic Party’s crime-coddling Left.


Awwww. Those thensitive MS-13 gangthters have feelings, too... :-(

Fourth:

New York Faces $2.3 Billion Budget Shortfall



> New York faces a $2.3 billion shortfall in revenue after December and January witnessed a steep drop in income tax collections, Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D.) and state Comptroller Tom DiNapoli announced on Monday. The announcement came after Cuomo announced a $175 billion spending proposal for 2020 last month.
> 
> Cuomo blamed the loss of revenue on the federal government, the Times Union reports. The governor suggested the rollback of the state and local tax deduction, known as SALT, contributed to the shortfall and was part of an effort to punish Democratic "high-tax" states.
> 
> *"Everything we did economically is right," Cuomo said. "We tightened our belt, we cut taxes, we're creating jobs, and here's a penalty just because we are Democrats."*


M'bold.

VICTIM!!! VICTIM!!! WE'RE ALL VICTIMS OF TRUMP!!! HE'S DELIBERATELY TARGETTING US!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

But wait!

Gov. Cuomo's Right: The Rich Are Leaving High-Tax New York



> We don't often praise New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, but we have to say, we appreciate his recent frankness on taxes.
> 
> On Monday, he told his state's citizens that income tax revenues were coming in $2.3 billion below the expectations of just a month ago. "That's as serious as a heart attack," he said.


And:

Andrew Cuomo Admits the Truth About Taxes



> But we have fought these taxes-on-the-rich, class envy things. I’m into the thirty-first year of this program. It’s been a central part of this program for all 31 years. When Ronald Reagan assumed office, the top marginal tax rate was 70%. We had just had two recessions. Jimmy Carter, in his four years, had literally destroyed the United States economy in any number of ways. And Reagan instituted tax rate reductions which, after eight years, took the top marginal rate from 70% to 28% — and the amount of revenue that those tax rates created for the U.S. Treasury doubled. It was incredible.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> So, by all reasonable standards, the SOTU was a home run. :clap::clap::clap:


By what measure?


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> By what measure?


Viewer response polling indicating they found the SOTU favourable.


----------



## FeXL

smashedbanana said:


> By what measure?


The look on Prog faces...


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> The look on Prog faces...


And that's a home run?

Just wondering what makes it a home run to you?


----------



## FeXL

smashedbanana said:


> And that's a home run?
> 
> Just wondering what makes it a home run to you?


If the Prog faces look like they're sucking lemon juice out of Trump's uncleaned toilet bowl with a straw made from his feces, you know the GOP is knocking it out of the park.

The details need not be noted.

Look at Pelosi. Look at Bernie. Look at A Occasional Cortex. Among others.

If the SOTU is p!$$ing them off _that_ bad, it can only mean it's a good thing.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

That Sanders face was the best:


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ the Russkies? :yikes:

Cuck Senator Richard Burr: The Senate Intelligence Committee Has Not Found Anything Suggesting any Collusion by Trump with Russia



> And this guy has always been kind of pushing for this investigation and also, noticeably, not taking any interest whatsoever in the revelations of crimes committed by FBI and DOJ officials.
> 
> Yet he says there's nothing to this Fusion Fantasia.
> 
> After more than two years of investigation, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has not found evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government, the committee’s Republican chairman said in interview.
> 
> *"If we write a report based upon the facts that we have, then we don’t have anything that would suggest there was collusion by the Trump campaign and Russia," North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr told CBS News.*​


TDS's hardest hit.

Awrite. Now, let's investigate Bill's Wife...


----------



## FeXL

Someone buy that person a see-gar...

Someone Well-Connected Secretive Research Firm Is Delivering Bodyblow After Bodyblow on Democratic Presidential Rivals



> At least three people have withdrawn from consideration to lead Sen. Amy Klobuchar’s (D-Minn.) nascent 2020 presidential campaign -- and done so in part because of Klobuchar's history of mistreating her staff, HuffPost has learned.
> 
> Klobuchar, who plans to make an announcement about a potential presidential bid on Sunday in Minneapolis, has spent the past several months positioning herself to run for president...
> 
> But some former Klobuchar staffers, all of whom spoke to HuffPost on condition of anonymity, describe Klobuchar as habitually demeaning and prone to bursts of cruelty that make it difficult to work in her office for long.​


A Prog abusing their power?

Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fairfax.

I jes' luvs it when they eat their own.

Justin Fairfax Now Threatening to Sue Washington Post for "Smear"



> I LOVE IT!!!
> 
> Note that we won't hear any liberal or NeverTrump (but I repeat myself) tut-tutting about "eroding norms of democracy" by "threatening and intimidating our brave firefighters of the free press."
> 
> That's reserved for Trump.


ABCNews: Virginia Democrat Congressman Bobby Scot Was Told By Vanessa Tyson About Her Claims Against Justin Fairfax a Year Ago, But Apparently Did Little to Get Her Story Out



> *Believe All Women, except the inconvenient ones.*
> 
> He did agree to talk to the Washington Post -- but we all know how that went.
> 
> And this article doesn't say what he told the Post.
> 
> Did he support her? And if he supported her at all -- how vigorously or tepidly?


Yeah, bold mine.

The Memory of This Tweet is Etched Indelibly Into My Hippocampus



> NEWS: A California woman accusing Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault has hired Christine Blasey Ford's legal team - Katz, Marshall and Banks - and is consulting with them about next steps, according to a source close to the legal team.


----------



## FeXL

Chris Christie Says That Bitter, Venomous Traitor and NeverTrumper (BIRM) Steve Schmidt Actually Tried to Get a Job as Trump's Campaign Manager After Departure of Cory Lewandowski



> Rumors that #PaycheckConservatives are mercenaries, whores, and grifters are greatly understated.


----------



## FeXL

Pelosi-Affiliated PAC Sent $250,000 to George Soros Effort



> A political action committee linked to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) pushed a total of $250,000 to an activist campaign that was primarily bankrolled by liberal billionaire George Soros, Federal Election Commission filings show.
> 
> The House Majority PAC, the Pelosi-affiliated group dedicated to electing Democrats to the House of Representatives, this past election cycle made numerous transfers to the "Win Justice" campaign, which was launched by a handful of liberal activist organizations including Planned Parenthood Votes, Color of Change PAC, Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and the Center for Community Change.
> 
> The group would work to push minority, young, and woman voters to the polls in Florida, Michigan, and Nevada.


----------



## FeXL

Weekend at Ruthie's?

NO pictures from first Ginsburg ‘public appearance’ since surgery?



> Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg attended a concert put on by her daughter-in-law at the National Museum of Women in the Arts on Monday, marking her first public appearance since cancer surgery in December.
> 
> Attendees at the Notorious RBG in Song described Ginsburg as “glam,” and “resplendent,” and “magnificent,” but you’ll have to take their word for it.
> 
> In an era when every person is carrying a camera and isn’t afraid to use it, there wasn’t a single snap of the 85-year-old to be found. Every media story that covered her alleged appearance used file photos.
> 
> “What a delight to see RBG tonight at ‘Notorious RBG in Song,’ written & beautifully performed by her daughter-in-law, Patrice Michaels,” Post contributor David Hagedorn posted to Twitter. “She sat in the back, a few rows behind us, looking resplendent. Being hugged & wished a happy birthday by her made a grand night spectacular.”
> 
> *Hagedorn’s tweet has since disappeared.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

There was some discussion earlier that the editors of Northam's yearbook screwed up & put the wrong photos with the wrong students.

Former Yearbook Staffer at Northam's Medical School: Students Submitted Their Own Pictures and We Were Very Careful to Not Mix Them Up and No One Ever Complained That We Had Mixed Them Up



> "Each student was allowed to submit a certain number of pictures that they wanted to appear on the page with their graduation photograph," said Elwood. "They chose their own pictures, they were submitted in a sealed envelope with their name on them, and the only time that envelope was opened was when the layout was done on their page."...
> 
> "In my personal knowledge and the people I knew that were working on the staff, we went through great pains to make sure that there was not a mix-up," Elwood said. "To my knowledge, nobody complained that their picture ended up on a different page."​


Yeah, not so much.


----------



## Beej

I look back at the 1980s. Relevant for current politics regarding blackface.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3PnQ3tgzY[/ame]

Not that I mind the outrage mob eating their own. Just making sure we understand context.


----------



## Macfury

I always liked Taco's version of that song. 

Minstrel shows were popular in Canada and performed widely, including in high schools, well up until the 1980s.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Not that I mind the outrage mob eating their own.


It _is_ fabulous, idn't it? :clap::lmao::clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## FeXL

The usual suspects have been somewhat remiss in not telling us all how wunnerful the Prog "New Green Deal!" is.

Let's shed some light on the TGF.

Exactly What Is “The Green New Deal?"



> In an October 2018 campaign appearance, Democratic darling Ocasio-Cortez – on the premise that the greenhouse gas emissions associated with human industrial activity are responsible for potentially catastrophic “climate change” – made reference to a “Green New Deal” which aims to make the U.S. 100 percent reliant on renewable energy sources (wind, water, solar) by 2035. “There’s no debate as to whether we should continue producing fossil fuels,” she said. “There’s no debate. We should not. *Every single scientific consensus points to that.*”


Bold mine.

'Cause them Proggies jes' know that science is _always_ decided by a show of hands...

Where's that technicolour vomiting emoticon when you need it?

Democrats Remove Fossil Fuel Eradication From Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal



> In what will likely be a major disappointment for the Democratic Party’s progressive base, the upcoming Green New Deal legislation will omit the plan’s lauded goal: A specific deadline for ending U.S. fossil fuel development.
> 
> New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ed Markey are expected to unveil their Green New Deal resolution later this week. However, their bill will not include a set date for complete oil and gas eradication, according to a Politico report.


The Left’s Glorious Future of Unicorns & Rainbows

First comment:



> AOC, She Guevara’s, New Green Deal … “what the **** is she smoking?”. I believe we all know what her “medical” prescription calls for. Her “prescription” for “painful stupidity”.
> 
> On a serious note, it appears to me as though the hardcore American Left is simply employing a Trump negotiation tactic (really just a common sense ‘haggling’ technique) … the New Green Deal is a ridiculous overshot of a political platform. Therefore, the “Moderate” Democraps … will back off the ridiculous tenets of She Guevara’s Green New Deal by stating they will allow air travel … but the rest of the New “Green” Deal will remain. And they will sound … sane by comparison. Nevermind they’ve just moved the insanity ball into the RED ZONE!!
> 
> By direct observation of the Democrap insanity … they are either; a) conceding 2020 to Trump – knowing they stand no chance of winning, or b) they are launching IDIOT candidates onto the campaign stage early … only to choose a “moderate” candidate like Robert Beta-male O’Rourke in the Demoncreep Primary.
> 
> We will all have been softened to the idea of destroying our economy …


‘Green New Deal’ Is a Republican Parody of the Democratic Platform



> As predicted, *it is pure socialism*.
> 
> The legislation, co-authored by Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA), is a non-binding resolution that reads, to borrow a phrase from the late Jeanne Kirkpatrick, like a letter to Santa Claus — or, in this case, a wish list to Gaia or Mother Nature.


M'bold.

More like Pure BS

More:



> *The “Green New Deal” begins by asserting “human activity is the dominant cause of observed climate change over the past century”* — far beyond the “consensus” that humans have some significant impact on global temperature.


M'bold.

Despite the fact that even the craziest Fruit Loops & Whackos agree that not enough anthropogenic CO2 was emitted prior to 1950 to affect global temperatures.

Definitely BS.

The balance of the article is a true tribute to the Fodder Queen.

The Six Most Bizarre Proposals from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal



> *Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is loud, perpetually outraged, and not particularly bright.* In fact, saying she’s not particularly bright is kind of like saying Antarctica is not particularly hot. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez IS what the mainstream media THOUGHT Sarah Palin was when she first came on the scene except she’s liberal, dumb, and considerably less accomplished.


Bold mine.

Too polite by half.

More:



> *Her first huge (albeit non-binding) policy initiative and the FAQ that goes along with the #Greennewdeal seems like the sort of drek a dimwitted high school student would have cobbled together after listening to a couple of Noam Chomsky videos.* It is truly radical, wildly impractical, and completely oblivious to the enormous problems it would cause.


Bold mine.

It gets better inside... 

AOC's New Green Deal: Ban Cars, Ban Airplanes, Ban Cows (They Fart and Create Methane), and Also, Open Borders Forever



> Here's my modest proposal: Trump and Congressional Republicans should pass an law that allows -- or even requires -- a state to act as the Laboratory for testing AOC's ideas. I nominate the state of New York, because it's very liberal, claims to be very, very concerned with the environment, and it foisted this borderline-retard on us.
> 
> New York, then, will be required to do all the things that AOC demands of it -- we can suspend the ordinary constitutional protections against state coercion for these purposes; I mean, this is such an important cause, should a very old piece of paper written by dead white men stand in the way of progress? -- and we allow (or require) New York to ban cars, airplane travel, and cows (and all other ruminant sources of meat).
> 
> Hell, let's just do what she so clearly wants us to do and declare her Political Messiah.
> 
> Then we build some big beautiful walls around New York, Snake Plissken style, and we check back in ten ****ing years and ask whatever survivors are still remaining what they think of Breakfast Club Evita.


Love it. :clap::clap::clap:

Y2Kyoto: Ocasio-Butts



> How Much Will the Green New Deal Cost?
> 
> As it happens, a team of Stanford engineers led by Mark Jacobson outlined just such a plan back in 2015. Jacobson’s repowering plan would involve installing 335,000 onshore wind turbines; 154,000 offshore wind turbines; 75 million residential photovoltaic systems; 2.75 million commercial photovoltaic systems; 46,000 utility-scale photovoltaic facilities; 3,600 concentrated solar power facilities with onsite heat storage; and an extensive array of underground thermal storage facilities.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting story.

From missionary kid to prisoner of war to war-time pilot, Missoula's MacDonald has story to tell



> John “Mac” MacDonald can still remember the morning of July 15, 1942, like it was yesterday.
> 
> A rifle with a fixed bayonet suddenly appearing in your room creates a memory that doesn’t just go away.


----------



## FeXL

Making the (High Speed) Trains Run on Time Great Again.



> Like most things, the risible madness of Alexandria "Breakfast Club Evita" Ocasio-Cortez's "Green New Deal" that would turn America into Kolyma 2, Killing Field Boogaloo and the recently legalized post-natal infanticide bill passed in New York and aborted (for now) in Virginia can be seen as harbingers. The question is for better or worse?


----------



## FeXL

Further on Coonman.

Governor Northam: Stop Digging! Although, On Second Thought...



> 'Virginia needs someone that can heal': Blackface Gov. Ralph Northam explains why he's not resigning as Gayle King lectures him on slavery after he describes them as 'indentured servants from Africa'
> 
> And you know if you look at Virginia's history we are now at the 400 year anniversary, just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort what we call now Fort Monroe and while-'
> 
> 'Also known as slavery,' interviewer Gayle King interrupted​


Only a Prog idiot (BIRM) could screw up an interview composed entirely of softball lobs that bad...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Fairfax.

Former Boyfriend of Dr. Vanessa Tyson: Due to Her Trauma Over Being Sexually Molested By Her Father, She Would Never Have Consented to Oral Sex
BILL KRISTOL DEFENDS WITH THE RACE CARD



> This is now less of a he-said, she-said and now a he-said, she-said, and he agreed with what she said.
> 
> Doesn't mean Justin Fairfax is guilty. But given that this former boyfriend is saying, if you read between the lines a bit, "No, she absolutely refuses oral sex because her father forced that on her," it does suggest that she would not have volunteered to commit the same act on a near-stranger.
> 
> You really can't prove this kind of serious sexual assault just by testimony, but as far as stories go? This is a really strong one.


More:



> Democrats remain silent. Corey Booker says he only wants to talk about Ralph Northam's blackface and, after this, I bet he won't want to talk about that, either.
> 
> Believe all women.
> 
> Zero tolerance.
> 
> Trump said women let famous guys kiss them and grab them by the p*ssy and that was totally serious and therefore Rape.
> 
> But this guy?
> 
> No big deal.
> 
> It's Chinatown, Jake.
> 
> Democrats, Five Days Ago: Blackface is a racist hate-crime for which we must have zero tolerance
> 
> *Democrats in Five Minutes: Blackface is good-natured, frisky fun for the whole family!!!*


Bold mine.

Once again: If it weren't for double standards, Progs wouldn't have any standards at all.


----------



## FeXL

Drugs. That's the single possible explanation. Damn good ones, too.

Buttigieg: Obamacare Is a ‘Conservative, Market-Oriented’



> Peter Buttigieg, the Democratic mayor of South Bend, Indiana and a 2020 presidential candidate, claimed Wednesday that *Obamacare is a "conservative, market-oriented" concept.*


Bold mine.

:yikes:

Of course it is...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Drugs. That's the single possible explanation. Damn good ones, too.
> 
> Buttigieg: Obamacare Is a ‘Conservative, Market-Oriented’
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> :yikes:
> 
> Of course it is...


Until Trump stepped in, it wasn't a market at all. What sort of market forces buyers to purchase a service?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What sort of market forces buyers to purchase a service?


A _progressive_ one...


----------



## FeXL

So, the first thought that comes to mind is, Why is a law like this even needed? Why is a liar simply not a liar, no matter what their position in life?

Even a low-life, scum-sucking politician should be held to the same standards as everybody else, no?

Rep. Gaetz Introduces Bill That Would Hold Clinton, Comey And Others Accountable For Lying



> Republican Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz introduced a bill that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, former FBI Director James Comey, and former National Intelligence Director James Clapper probably won’t like.
> 
> The “Justice For All Act” would require equal punishment for those who have lied or lie to Congress, no matter who they are.


----------



## FeXL

McClatchy: Privately, Democrat Poobahs Confess Joe Biden Would Be a Terrible Candidate



> Me Too!
> 
> Joe Biden is everything a Democratic political consultant should love: He’s experienced, well-liked, and his poll numbers look great against Donald Trump.
> 
> And yet many party strategists have a bleak assessment of his potential 2020 campaign: It's a bad, bad idea.​


----------



## FeXL

No Russkies?! :yikes:

As The Russia Hoax Begins To Unravel, The Gaslighting Begins



> Most recently, the Senate Judiciary Committee announced that after almost two years of investigation, it has uncovered no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Attorneys assigned to the Mueller team have quietly begun to slip away before the outcome of the investigation is made public (here, here, and here).
> 
> This is unsurprising. The Russia hoax is crumbling and people can’t run away fast enough. We’ve seen signs from the very beginning that many of the people who promoted the Trump-Russia collusion smear have always known it was a hoax. These signs have been in plain sight. Here is an incomplete list.


Related:

Russia Who?



> Newsbusters:
> 
> It’s been two days since NBC’s exclusive reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has found no material evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and as of yet none of the three major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, and NBC) have given it even a single second of airtime in their evening newscasts. Considering these networks have given the Russia probe a massive 2,202 minutes of airtime, their silence on this major development is deafening.​


Progs & GOP-e (BIRM) hardest hit.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me the unmentioned, implied, underlying threat here.

Pelosi on Border Emergency Declaration: Dems Can Declare Policy Emergencies, Too



> "I know the Republicans have some unease about it no matter what they say, because if the president can declare an emergency on something that he has created as an emergency, an illusion that he wants to convey, just think of what a president with different values can present to the American people," she warned. *"...A Democratic president can declare emergencies as well. So, the precedent that the president is setting here is something that should be met with great unease and dismay by the Republicans."*


Bold mine.

Go ahead, Nancy. Declare firearms a "national emergency". I double dog dare ya. 'Cause within 30 seconds of your declaration, every damn firearm in the US will be pointed right at your head. Precisely why the 2A was created...


----------



## FeXL

The New Normal: Los Angeles City Council Passes Blatantly Unconstitutional Law Requiring Anyone Seeking City Contracts to Disclose "Any" Associations with the NRA



> *Can we do that with Planned Parenthood, too? How about CAIR?*
> 
> The NRA plans to sue, citing First Amendment grounds -- clear intent to intimidate people from joining political organizations in order to secure contracts necessary for their regular course of trade.
> 
> *You know what you can't ask someone about in Los Angeles, or California as a whole?
> 
> Their criminal history.
> 
> That's sacrosanct, private information.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> “Just a reminder that anyone who lied to the President as part of this is subject to prosecution under the False Statements Act.”
> 
> More: 8 Days In May


Comments interesting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

“I didn’t need to do this,” Trump admits regarding his emergency declaration for wall funding. He keeps using that word; I don’t think it means what he thinks it means.


----------



## FeXL

What word?



Freddie_Biff said:


> He keeps using that word


----------



## FeXL

Further from the Fodder Queen.

Twitter User Asks Alexandria Donkey-Chompers' Why Her Boyfriend Now Has a US Government Email Address, and Promptly Gets Banned by Twitter



> Is this guy on the payroll, or was he given a House email address for some reason the rest of us don't know about? Update: AOC's Chief of Staff, who has lied on her behalf before, says that the boyfriend was only given calendar access as other friends and families of congressmen are given.
> 
> Which does not answer the question: Why was Luke Thompson suspended by Twitter? Is it illegal to ask questions of _alleged_ public servants?


Related:

Jason Chafetz: Breakfast Club Evita's Story About Why Her Boyfriend Got A Government Email Address Doesn't Add Up; Should Be Referred to Ethics Committee for Investigation



> Alexandria Donkey-Chompers, lying?!
> 
> After she was so honest and candid about her Green New Deal talking points?
> 
> And now someone says she's lying?!
> 
> I shan't believe it.
> 
> No, I simply shannot.
> 
> But Jason Chaffetz, former chairman of the House Oversight Committee, said Ocasio-Cortez' claims don't stack up.
> 
> "It's totally naïve and inappropriate -- you wouldn’t allow it in most companies, let alone the House of Representatives. There should be real consequences," Chaffetz told Fox News.
> 
> 
> "When I was in the House, my scheduler would forward my wife my schedule once a week. But you're not allowed unfettered access. And he isn't even her spouse," he added." "... It should be referred to the ethics committee for further investigation."​


She's learnin' fast...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What word?


Freddie is just another mockingbird – copying, pasting.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> What word?




“Emergency.”


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> “Emergency.”


And why is it not appropriate?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And why is it not appropriate?




Ummm....because he said he didn’t need to do it. Which means it wasn’t an emergency. Whooosh, as you like to say.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm....because he said he didn’t need to do it. Which means it wasn’t an emergency. Whooosh, as you like to say.


He said he didn't need to do this, because Congress should have done it.


----------



## CubaMark

When Trump's too extreme for even Ann Coulter, well, it's time to pack it in and go home, Donald! :lmao:

Ann Coulter Fires Back at Trump: 'The Only National Emergency Is that Our President Is an Idiot'


----------



## Rps

We can go through the list of Trump errors here but many have an ideological bias....the danger now is the Supreme Court. If they endorse Trump’s cause then any time a president wants something the precedent is set. But the real danger here is if they reject the cause. That could set a very dangerous precedent for when the U.S. has a president with a real national emergency .


----------



## Dr.G.

CubaMark said:


> When Trump's too extreme for even Ann Coulter, well, it's time to pack it in and go home, Donald! :lmao:
> 
> Ann Coulter Fires Back at Trump: 'The Only National Emergency Is that Our President Is an Idiot'




Reminds me of LBJ. After watching the special commentary by Walter Cronkite on the CBS Evening News, President Lyndon Johnson reportedly said, “If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America.” The so-called “Cronkite moment” has become part of the collective memory of President Johnson, Walter Cronkite, and the Vietnam War.

Hopefully, Sean H and Rush L will stay by Trump's side. Still, even the rats went down with the captain on the Titanic. We shall see.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> We can go through the list of Trump errors here but many have an ideological bias....the danger now is the Supreme Court. If they endorse Trump’s cause then any time a president wants something the precedent is set. But the real danger here is if they reject the cause. That could set a very dangerous precedent for when the U.S. has a president with a real national emergency .


So true. Imagine a Democratic president declaring assault weapons as part of a national emergency?????????????? The NRA would go off the deep end to stop this from taking place, but the Supreme Court would have already opened up "Pandora's Box".


----------



## FeXL

You wouldn't have to worry about the NRA dealing with an "assault weapon" ban... 



Dr.G. said:


> Imagine a Democratic president declaring assault weapons as part of a national emergency?????????????? The NRA would go off the deep end to stop this from taking place...


----------



## Macfury

LBJ should have lost all of America on his own steam for embroiling the US in his pet war.



Dr.G. said:


> Reminds me of LBJ. After watching the special commentary by Walter Cronkite on the CBS Evening News, President Lyndon Johnson reportedly said, “If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America.” The so-called “Cronkite moment” has become part of the collective memory of President Johnson, Walter Cronkite, and the Vietnam War.
> 
> Hopefully, Sean H and Rush L will stay by Trump's side. Still, even the rats went down with the captain on the Titanic. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

If they put Tesla charging stations on that wall, you'd have a challenging time not pleasuring yourself in public!



CubaMark said:


> When Trump's too extreme for even Ann Coulter, well, it's time to pack it in and go home, Donald! :lmao:
> 
> Ann Coulter Fires Back at Trump: 'The Only National Emergency Is that Our President Is an Idiot'


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> LBJ should have lost all of America on his own steam for embroiling the US in his pet war.


Let’s put things in their proper perspective MacFury. You know as well as I that both Ike and Kennedy put the U.S. in that war and that LBJ got sucked in and was deluded by his advisors. It was a different time but it is amazing how things haven’t changed.....


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> If they put Tesla charging stations on that wall, you'd have a challenging time not pleasuring yourself in public!


Not the classiest reply MacFury.... you are better than this I’m sure.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> ...then any time a president wants something the precedent is set...


Ah. You must mean like with FDR's 3700+ executive orders...


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Hypocrite.

Whoosh...



CubaMark said:


> When Trump's too extreme for even Ann Coulter , well, it's time to pack it in and go home, Donald!


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Ah. You must mean like with FDR's 3700+ executive orders...


First, an Executive order is not a national emergency, second......there was a national emergency....


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> First, an Executive order is not a national emergency, second......there was a national emergency....


Right. Those damn American Japanese were interned because they were a national emergency.

The iron...


----------



## Rps

FeXL said:


> Right. Those damn American Japanese were interned because they were a national emergency.
> 
> The iron...


Nice, bury the headline....what about the depression era action...


----------



## Beej

A fine excuse to post about Penthouse.

Open Wide and Say Ahhh
https://penthousemagazine.com/open-wide-and-say-ahhh-an-editors-letter/


> The eighties hold many similarities to today’s scary times. Online journalists work day and night to “cancel” people who offend others. In between posting selfies on Instagram, millennial feminists have begun worshiping Dworkin and her sexphobic, censorious sidekick Catharine MacKinnon. In Washington, D.C., self-proclaimed progressives Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders have voted in favor of FOSTA-SESTA, a bill that targets sex workers in the name of “human trafficking.” The eighties are back, baby!


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Not the classiest reply MacFury.... you are better than this I’m sure.


No, I am _exactly_ like that -- I have to have some fun once in awhile, and CM's Tesla-phelia is the perfect target!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> LBJ should have lost all of America on his own steam for embroiling the US in his pet war.


Sadly, the Great Society reforms went down the drain due to the ever increasing demands of the war in Vietnam.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> Let’s put things in their proper perspective MacFury. You know as well as I that both Ike and Kennedy put the U.S. in that war and that LBJ got sucked in and was deluded by his advisors. It was a different time but it is amazing how things haven’t changed.....


Sadly, all too true. He listened to those who did not want to pull out of Vietnam, and the rest, as they say, is history. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Dr.G.

Rps said:


> First, an Executive order is not a national emergency, second......there was a national emergency....


True, especially back then. I did not agree with FDR's plan to "pack" the Supreme Court, but most of the New Deal legislation was of vital importance back then.


----------



## FeXL

Rps said:


> Nice, bury the headline....what about the depression era action...


I buried nothing. The headline was a president getting what he wanted via whatever means necessary. All I did was provide an example. 

If you want I can probably find a link to the other 3720. That's approaching one/day over his 12 year term, BTW. Gotta love progressive gov'ts...


----------



## FeXL

Gavin Newsom decides to destroy the planet, maybe go to Washington someday



> Gavin Newsom decides to destroy the planet
> 
> The new California governor is surprising a lot of people by breaking with some of Jerry Brown's priorities. But his decision to abandon the Los Angeles to San Francisco run of the California high-speed rail project had to be a blow to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. No matter how much she spent on air travel during her campaign, her New Green Deal Resolution initially called for the USA to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary
> 
> 
> 
> And we only have 10 years to plan and implement this! Or is it 12 years?
> 
> Maybe Lindsey Graham is right. Gavin Newsom has given up on the big push for HSR in California, the fifth largest economy in the world, even with federal help! What hope is there for the planet now? How can we inspire all those countries that hate us to mobilize all their resources to reach zero carbon emissions? Like Mr. Graham says,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's bury the hatchet and enjoy the next 12 years because they are going to be our last, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Woohoo! Party on, dudes!!!


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Gotta love progressive gov'ts...


Amen, brother. You have seen the light. "Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win." Paix, mon ami.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDm3qr3Zlu0[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Apparently you missed the "dripping with sarcasm" emoticon.

As far as progressivism winning? It'll _never_ happen. Why? By definition it's self-defeating behaviour: Sooner or later yer gonna run out of other people's money. Or bodies to shoot.

Oh, don't get me wrong. There will always be misinformed, misguided, religious, ideologic souls who will support it. However, the pendulum will always swing back...



Dr.G. said:


> Amen, brother. You have seen the light. "Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## CubaMark

_For those who are too young to remember the despicable foreign policy of the USA in Latin America... and so that you know just who is this evil bastard at the forefront of the Washington's latest attempt to foster a coup in Venezuela:_

*The Tragic Life of the War Criminal Elliott Abrams*

Last month, Abrams was tapped by Trump to serve as his special envoy to Venezuela, to essentially help steer the Trump administration’s slow-burn effort to topple that country’s government — or as Mike Pompeo put it, “restore democracy” in the country.

It should go without saying that the idea the Trump administration is pursuing regime change in Venezuela for the sake of democracy and human rights is as laughable as calling Jamal Khashoggi’s murder a surprise party gone wrong. But in case you need to explain this to politically confused friends and relatives, here are eight good reasons why the appointment of Abrams, in particular, makes a mockery of any such high-minded rhetoric.

* * *

Abrams’ chief claim to fame is his role in Ronald Reagan’s blood-soaked foreign policy in Central America in the 1980s, for which he earned the nickname, “contra commander-in-chief.” The contras were the brutal right-wing paramilitary groups in Nicaragua who terrorized civilians throughout the decade, cutting a swath of torture, rape, and murder aimed at everyone from the elderly to children. Their methods were similar to those of right-wing paramilitaries in the other countries of the region, including El Salvador and Guatemala, all of which were supported by the Reagan administration. If you have the stomach to read about them, there’s no shortage of sources that outline their barbarity.

To Abrams, however, they were “freedom fighters,” their work in El Salvador was a “fabulous achievement,”...

* * *

How involved was Abrams? “Sure, there was excessive micromanagement [of the contras],” he told Policy Review in 1989; “and I was one of the people who engaged in it. But I’m not going to go around trying to assess blame, because the contras were an enormous success.” The contras would have floundered and faded away were it not for the tens of millions of dollars Abrams helped funnel to them, including personally soliciting $10 million from the Sultan of Brunei for their cause (that money never made it because Abrams gave the Sultan the wrong account number).

This “micromanagement” at one point also involved Abrams secretly delivering military equipment to the contras under the guise of humanitarian aid. As commentators have noted, this is particularly relevant now, when the Trump administration attacks Maduro for refusing to let humanitarian aid from the US into Venezuela.

(Jacobin Magazine)​

_Abrams, as some of you may know, was just called out during a House hearing on Venezuela by Minnesota Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar:_


*What Did Elliott Abrams Have to Do With the El Mozote Massacre?*

What happened in 1981? And what did Abrams have to do with it?

More than 900 peasants were murdered in and around several villages in the eastern province of Morazán. Most were old men, women, and children. At the Roman Catholic church in El Mozote, soldiers separated men from their families, took them away, and shot them. They herded mothers and children into the convent. Putting their American-supplied M-16 rifles on automatic, the soldiers opened fire. Then they burned the convent. Some 140 children were killed, including toddlers. Average age: 6.

Omar’s questioning of Abrams was not artful, and Abrams wasn’t unreasonable in viewing it as a personal attack. But she was right to suggest that he had sought to diminish or even cover up the massacre by calling it communist propaganda. Nor was she wrong to question whether Abrams was ethically qualified to assume a high government position, with the mission to oust the Venezuelan dictatorship and promote democracy.

In El Salvador, the Reagan administration, with Abrams as point man, routinely defended the Salvadoran government in the face of evidence that its regular army, and allied right-wing death squads, were operating with impunity, killing peasants, students, union leaders, and anyone considered anti-government or pro-guerrilla. Abrams went so far as to defend one of the death squads’ most notorious leaders, Roberto D’Aubuisson, who was responsible for the murder of Archbishop Óscar Romero while he was saying Mass, in March 1980.

(The Atlantic)​


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong. There will always be misinformed, misguided, religious, ideologic souls who will support it. However, the pendulum will always swing back...


Exactly. This is why progressives are on the move forward once again. Good to know that you are with us for the struggle to help us move out of the darkness and into the light. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury

I'm not to keen on visiting a linked site where the first line I see is "Socialism is Love"!


----------



## FeXL

I can tell. Look at Europe, f'r instance... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



Dr.G. said:


> This is why progressives are on the move forward once again.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

So, lemme get this straight.

You think Maduro & his predecessor have been/are doing just a bang-up job in Venezuela? Is that the thrust? 

And, I don't need no steenkin' Prog-torqued Latin American history "lesson".

A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

And, _and_, yer calling Bro-Fo Ilhan Omar, with known ties to the terrorist organization CAIR, as some sort of moral compass?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Seek help.



CubaMark said:


> Blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Came across this in my Facebook feed. I dare say the gentleman nails it. 

“

Someone asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?" 

Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England, wrote this magnificent response:

"A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
* Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
* You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

'My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set."


----------



## Macfury

Jeremy Corbyn, Theresa May.

No need to thank me for pricking that leaky balloon of a post.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Jeremy Corbyn, Theresa May.
> 
> No need to thank me for pricking that leaky balloon of a post.


The Brits are still bitter the Americans kicked their asses out of the country a coupla hunnert years ago. :lmao:

It's the same way the Progs are gonna feel in Alberta come May. :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that.

Weird! Loudmouthed Celebrities, Who Usually Can't Wait to Inflict Their Opinions on You, Suddenly Go Radio Silent on Northam, Fairfax, and Omar



> The running-dog socialists who didn't bark.
> 
> Of course, late night alleged comedians Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon have had nothing at all to say about this whole blackface situation.
> 
> Maybe that has something to do with their own history of using blackface.
> 
> You know -- if they want to defend the practice, they can man up and defend it.
> 
> If they want to say what they did was qualitatively different, they can man up and say that.
> 
> Instead -- a cowardly silence, trusting that their Media Palz Praetorian Guard will not confront them with the question.


----------



## FeXL

_The_ Michael Avenatti?

Michael Avenatti Gives Up Financial Control of His Law Firm After Being Accused of Hiding Millions of Dollars



> Womp womp.
> 
> Michael Avenatti agreed Wednesday to relinquish financial control of his longtime law firm hours after a former partner filed papers accusing him of hiding millions of dollars from the court that oversaw its bankruptcy.​


Shocka...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> _The_ Michael Avenatti?
> 
> Michael Avenatti Gives Up Financial Control of His Law Firm After Being Accused of Hiding Millions of Dollars


He certainly now has the credentials to run for Dem leadership.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He certainly now has the credentials to run for Dem leadership.


:lmao::clap::lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## Beej

When the Convington teens' "smirk of supremacy" mess unfolded, I pointed out the strange way that people pushing the controversy would prefer that the worst version actually happened rather than it be a minor event or a hoax. They would rather our society be a worse place with racist teenagers mobbing peaceful native activists, as long as they got to point it out.

Here is that thinking stated plainly regarding the Smollett mess.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e-right/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8fe0a72517cd


> The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
> 
> And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting.


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk about The Bigot's newest pleasure-pal, Bro-Fo, terrorist associating, anti-Semite Ilhan Omar s'more.

Ilhan Omar's District Is 'Terrorist Recruitment Capital Of The US,' Report Says



> FOX News reports that "more men and boys from a Somali American community in Minneapolis have joined – or attempted to join – a foreign terrorist organization over the last 12 years than any other jurisdiction in the country."
> 
> *"FBI stats show 45 Somalis left to join the ranks of either the Somalia-based Islamic insurgency al-Shabab, or the Iraq- and Syria-based ISIS combined," Fox News continued. "And as of 2018, a dozen more had been arrested with the intention of leaving to support ISIS. Both numbers are far higher than those of alleged terrorist wannabes who left or attempted to leave the country from other areas in the country where Muslim refugees have been resettled."*
> 
> As FOX notes, "the insular ethnic community in Minnesota offers a rich recruiting ground" for Islamic terrorism as the Somali population in the Minneapolis community — which is located in Omar's district — is nearly 100,000.


More:



> In 2013, Omar blamed America's "involvement in other people’s affairs" for an al-Shabab terrorist attack on a Kenyan shopping mall that year which resulted in nearly 70 deaths and 200 wounded. During that interview, Omar laughed and joked as she talked about Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah.


Further:



> Omar, who is a known *anti-Semite*, has faced recent scrutiny over her past advocacy for a group of men who were accused of trying to join ISIS.


Finally:



> Omar has recently come under fire for promoting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, which has resulted in President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence calling on her to either *resign* or *step down* from the House Foreign Affairs Committee.


Yes. Yes, I can see precisely why The Bigot thinks this sorry excuse for a human being is a fine, upstanding, Prog...


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Why could that not happen in any other country?


----------



## FeXL

Further from Bro-Fo Omar.

Rep. Ilhan Omar: ‘Next President Should Declare National Emergency on Day 1 to Address…Climate Change’



> Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said in a Tweet on Friday that the president who follows President Donald Trump in office should declare a national emergency on his or her first day in office to deal with “the existential threat” of climate change.
> 
> “Our next president should declare a #National Emergency on day 1 to address the existential threat to all life on the planet posed by Climate Change,” Omar said.


Once again, "Whoosh..." right over another Prog's head.

You may not agree with the concept of a border wall for a dozen different reasons. Fine. 

However, there is no denying the empirical evidence, the actual numbers, regarding the deleterious effect that illegal immigration has on American society.

Now, regarding Bro-Fo's Climate Change BS? Where's the empirical evidence? Where are the numbers to back up claims of Globull Warming?

It's plain & simple: There are none.

Case closed...


----------



## FeXL

Yep. And the maggot MSM who parrot them should be culpable, as well.

It's Time for Congress and State Legislatures to Make Hoax Hate Crimes Themselves Hate Crimes, and Felonies to Boot



> As Infobee and John Hayward argue -- what is a hoax hate-crime if not an effort to create waves of hatred and possible violence against a race or group?


----------



## FeXL

:-(

Not...

Rod Rosenstein Is Leaving The Justice Department



> Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein plans to leave the Justice Department in mid-March, agency officials told news outlets Monday.


None too soon.


----------



## FeXL

"But lowering taxes will have the opposite effect of lowering revenuuuuuuuuues."

$1,665,484,000,000: Feds Collect Record Individual Income Taxes in Calendar 2018--as Debt Climbed $1,481,349,159,596.80



> The federal government collected a record $1,665,484,000,000 in individual income taxes in calendar year 2018, according to the Monthly Treasury Statements for the year, which the Treasury finished publishing today with the belated release of the December statement.
> 
> Calendar year 2018 was the first full tax year after President Donald Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on Dec. 22, 2017.
> 
> The previous calendar-year record for federal individual income tax revenues was in 2017, when the Treasury collected $1,656,171,550,000 in individual income taxes (in constant December 2018 dollars).
> 
> The real federal individual income tax revenues collected in calendar 2018 were $9,312,450,000 more than the real individual income tax revenues collected in calendar year 2017.


Yeah, more Prog math fails.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Someone made a poetry book from Donald Trump’s speeches


----------



## Macfury

Hey Freddie, somebody collected your poetry, too!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I like it!


----------



## FeXL

_Progressive thinkers_: *Not* an emergency...

Potentially Half a Million Illegal Aliens Projected to Enter U.S. this Year



> Princeton Policy Advisors researcher Steven Kopits projects that in 2019, there will be anywhere between 260,000 to 500,000 illegal aliens at the southern border who successfully cross into the U.S. undetected by Border Patrol agents.
> 
> Kopits’ research also indicates that possibly close to 400,000 illegal aliens crossed into the country undetected by Border Patrol last year, assuming about 55 percent to 60 percent of illegal aliens are apprehended when they attempt to cross the border.
> 
> Last month, Kopits called the number of border crossings “stunning,” noting that there were nearly 48,000 border crossing apprehensions — an increase of about 22,000 crossings compared to this same month in 2017.


Related:

Border county commissioner: Ranchers are scared to report drug trafficking crimes



> If ranchers in our own country are scared to report crimes, not of internal criminals, but of foreign invaders at our border, is that a national emergency? And if their properties are being used for drug smuggling, does that count as drugs coming in between ports of entry in the minds of the media? And if you live in a poorer county at the border in New Mexico, are you as much of a citizen as a resident of Maryland or Virginia?


Related, too:

Illegal Alien Accused of Repeatedly Raping 15-Year-Old Girl in Kentucky



> Illegal alien Andres Villarrealmercado has been charged with three counts of first-degree rape, according to the McCracken County Sheriff’s Department.
> 
> Following a lengthy investigation, police claim the illegal alien repeatedly raped a 15-year-old girl between March and May 2016 on three separate occasions.


----------



## FeXL

Heyyyyy! BS is in!

WINNING! Ben Shapiro has a stellar suggestion for Bernie Sanders’ 2020 slogan so of COURSE Lefties are all pissed off



> In the meantime, Ben Shapiro came up with a pretty damn good slogan for Crazy Uncle Bernie:
> 
> Bernie 2020: *When You Want The One Who Personally Knew Marx*
> 
> — Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) February 19, 2019​


Bold mine.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Related:

Bernie Sanders Announces Another Presidential Bid



> Below, an amazing flashback.
> 
> Bernie Sanders used to claim that capitalists were wrong to use the existence of bread lines in socialist countries against socialism.
> 
> Because, you see, in _non_-socialist countries, there are no bread lines -- but that's only because the rich people just get all the bread, and the poor people just _die of starvation_.
> 
> No really -- he said that. A while ago, but his politics have not changed. Once a Red, always a Red.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Below, an amazing flashback.
> 
> Bernie Sanders used to claim that capitalists were wrong to use the existence of bread lines in socialist countries against socialism.
> 
> Because, you see, in non-socialist countries, there are no bread lines -- but that's only because the rich people just get all the bread, and the poor people just die of starvation.


I recall hearing that Sanders praised bread lines in Russia because at least they now had bread.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I recall hearing that Sanders praised bread lines in Russia because at least they now had bread.


A step up in a socialist country, I s'pose.


----------



## FeXL

Bruce Ohr Says He Ferried Another Hillary Clinton-Financed Dossier to the FBI, This One Written By His Fusion GPS Employed Wife



> Walls are closing in.
> 
> Who would have thought that, this deep into the Russia collusion probe, we'd be learning about yet another dossier connected to Hillary Clinton? And, as it turns out, it was sort of a family secret.
> 
> By his own account, senior Department of Justice (DOJ) official Bruce Ohr played an essential -- and unorthodox --role, carrying politically tainted allegations of Donald Trump-Russia collusion to the FBI during the 2016 election.​


----------



## wonderings

Beej said:


> When the Convington teens' "smirk of supremacy" mess unfolded, I pointed out the strange way that people pushing the controversy would prefer that the worst version actually happened rather than it be a minor event or a hoax. They would rather our society be a worse place with racist teenagers mobbing peaceful native activists, as long as they got to point it out.
> 
> Here is that thinking stated plainly regarding the Smollett mess.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e-right/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8fe0a72517cd


I find this so disgusting. I wonder how the media will handle it. The country is divided as is and all this does is push to divide it even more. I am sure in his muddled brain he thought this was a good thing, it will somehow show people the error of their thinking. It is absolutely moronic. He is causing more hate, he is fuelling the fire.... that is of course if he is guilty which is certainly is looking like. 

Looks like he has been charged with this before back in 2007, false information to police. I wonder if he will keep his job on Empire. If it was another person who did not hold his political values I am sure everyone would be up in arms for him to be removed from his job. I hope the book is thrown at him, make him a very public example that this is not acceptable. And it is not because of his skin colour or sexual preference, I would say the same of someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Give him the 3 years in prison, or whatever the maximum is, let this be a lesson to all faking these things to incite more hatred is not tolerable.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I find this so disgusting. I wonder how the media will handle it. The country is divided as is and all this does is push to divide it even more. I am sure in his muddled brain he thought this was a good thing, it will somehow show people the error of their thinking. It is absolutely moronic. He is causing more hate, he is fuelling the fire.... that is of course if he is guilty which is certainly is looking like.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like he has been charged with this before back in 2007, false information to police. I wonder if he will keep his job on Empire. If it was another person who did not hold his political values I am sure everyone would be up in arms for him to be removed from his job. I hope the book is thrown at him, make him a very public example that this is not acceptable. And it is not because of his skin colour or sexual preference, I would say the same of someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Give him the 3 years in prison, or whatever the maximum is, let this be a lesson to all faking these things to incite more hatred is not tolerable.




Do you think the same rationale should be applied to all people who lie? Donald Trump for instance?


----------



## Rps

This is a Murphy Brown moment......


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think the same rationale should be applied to all people who lie? Donald Trump for instance?


Not even you, or Rachel Notley, unless you lie to police making false accusations.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think the same rationale should be applied to all people who lie? Donald Trump for instance?


Lying is bad across the board, it is why people dislike politicians so much.

I guess it comes down to degrees of lying and the outcome/purpose of the lie. Trump lying about how many people were at his inauguration is not something I really care about and is just silly. I am sure he has lied about other things and would have to comment on them individually. That being said because Trump lies does not make it ok or excusable for Jussie Smullett. I find this act reprehensible as I have said before and it does nothing but incite more hatred and division for no reason. What was the result he was hoping for in this?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Lying is bad across the board, it is why people dislike politicians so much.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it comes down to degrees of lying and the outcome/purpose of the lie. Trump lying about how many people were at his inauguration is not something I really care about and is just silly. I am sure he has lied about other things and would have to comment on them individually. That being said because Trump lies does not make it ok or excusable for Jussie Smullett. I find this act reprehensible as I have said before and it does nothing but incite more hatred and division for no reason. What was the result he was hoping for in this?



Getting attention, perhaps, which he has certainly achieved.


----------



## FeXL

So, what's the thrust here?

This was all done because he's an attention whore? Fine.

Perhaps, before striking out on this grand experiment, he should have considered the _subtle_ difference between positive & negative attention...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Getting attention, perhaps, which he has certainly achieved.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Getting attention, perhaps, which he has certainly achieved.


Yes he certainly has achieved attention and should now pay the price of that attention. 3 years is the max jail time for such an offence (according to to another article about this). This is not his first time lying to police. Because of his celebrity status I am sure more time and effort was put into his case because of the publicity it received. 

These issues are not helped by his actions and they are in the public eye already. They are not being swept under a rug and hidden from the masses, they are in our faces daily, in news, music, movie and tv. He works in the very medium that can be forefront for bringing issues like this to life through story. He chose to use his acting abilities to waist police time and play the victim. Will it be his biggest role ever?


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> I find this act reprehensible as I have said before and it does nothing but incite more hatred and division for no reason.


Agreed. I hope they throw the book at the lying bastard.

The unfortunate truth is, said lesson will be completely lost on the type of people who have been fabricating (and promulgating!) all these fake "victim" crimes. Their derangement has long gone past simple politics, is deep into ideology & is now banging on the door of mental illness.

Witness our very own Bigot...


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Will it be his biggest role ever?


Considering the TGF it was, something short of an Academy performance. :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Worse, I doubt that the MSM believed Smollet's story. They were just hoping it would hold up so they could promote the narrative.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, what's the thrust here?
> 
> 
> 
> This was all done because he's an attention whore? Fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, before striking out on this grand experiment, he should have considered the _subtle_ difference between positive & negative attention...




Agreed.


----------



## FeXL

FBI's Top Lawyer Thought Hillary Clinton Should Be Prosecuted Over Email Crimes, But Was Talked Out Of It



> Comey's defense for his own campaign to free Hillary Clinton from legal consequence was that "no reasonable prosecutor" would press charges for this set of facts.
> 
> Well, sure -- I mean, except for the FBI's own top lawyer.
> 
> Turns out "A Higher Loyalty" refers to Hillary Clinton.
> 
> 
> For most of the past three years, the FBI has tried to portray its top leadership as united behind ex-Director James Comey's decision not to pursue criminal charges against Hillary Clinton for transmitting classified information over her insecure, private email server.
> 
> *Although in the end that may have been the case, we now are learning that Comey's top lawyer, then-FBI General Counsel James Baker, initially believed Clinton deserved to face criminal charges, but was talked out of it "pretty late in the process."*​


Bold mine.

Never too late too see how Bill's Wife looks in prison orange...


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

I don't think Fauxcahontas knows what "emergency" means, either...

Warren: I Would Declare A National Emergency for Climate Change, Gun Violence, & Student Loan Debt



> Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) said that she would declare a national emergency for *climate change, gun violence, and student loan debt* if elected president during an interview on the “Late Late Show” on Tuesday.
> 
> Host James Corden asked Warren about President Trump’s recent decision to declare a national emergency declaration to build a southern border wall. He also asked Warren what would constitute a national emergency to her if she were president.


Bold mine.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
> 
> I don't think Fauxcahontas knows what "emergency" means, either...
> 
> Warren: I Would Declare A National Emergency for Climate Change, Gun Violence, & Student Loan Debt
> 
> Bold mine.


I think you get her point. She may be the worst spokeperson for anything, but her point is valid. Trump has opened up a ridiculous precedent. Can't get funding for your agenda? Declare an emergency and take earmarked money for real emergencies from FEMA. 

Remember the debt ceiling crisis and the discussion of the trillion dollar coin? Even though Obama said he would never do it the house had to close that loophole. 

Why is this different?


----------



## FeXL

No, I think she's serious.



smashedbanana said:


> I think you get her point.


How many national emergencies have been called by presidents?



> According to the Brennan Center, there have been 58 national emergencies called by presidents since 1979. Thirty-one of those national emergencies are still in effect.


From the hue & cry emanating from the Prog media complex, you'd think Trump was the first POTUS to have the audacity to declare a National Emergency. It has been done before, many times, on both sides of the political spectrum.



smashedbanana said:


> Trump has opened up a ridiculous precedent. Can't get funding for your agenda? Declare an emergency and take earmarked money for real emergencies from FEMA.


I've noted before: the movement of 10's of millions of illegal aliens into the US has a measurable negative effect on the balance of the population. In fairness, I've read estimates all over the spectrum but the one thing they _all_ have in common is the word "billions of dollars". In my mind, it doesn't matter if the preceding word is "10's" or "hundreds". Once you hit 9 zeros, it's long past time to merely take note & way overdue for action. 



smashedbanana said:


> Why is this different?


----------



## FeXL

"Bread Line Bernie"—totally stealing that! :lmao:

Sorry, MF. It's the "O" word...

With Bread Line Bernie rising, expect Michelle-mentum



> We’ve been arguing for almost a year and a half that the Democratic field, with its angry, socialist and unlikable candidates, will end with Democrats begging and pleading for Michelle Obama to run to save the nation from four more years of Trump.


----------



## FeXL

Further from the Nazi collaborator.

Soros-Backed Priorities USA to Invest $100 Million in Four Swing States Ahead of 2020



> Priorities USA, the largest Democratic super PAC, announced on Thursday it will spend $100 million in four of the top swing states as part of an initial investment to try and defeat President Donald Trump.
> 
> Guy Cecil, the super PAC's chairman, held a briefing with reporters earlier in the morning, where he argued polling shows Democrats have "opportunity to expand the electorate to the largest, if not certainly the largest in a generation." In order to do that, the Democratic party shouldn't waste time and must start building an apparatus, he said. The group's initial investment will be in Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, according to NBC News.
> 
> Liberal billionaire George Soros donated at least $9.5 million during the 2016 election cycle and $5 million to the group during the 2018 election cycle, making him one of its biggest donors. They also received millions of dollars from the House Majority PAC, which accepts money from corporations and PACs.


----------



## FeXL

More from the Fodder Queen.

Probably from Russia!!! 

Ocasio-Cortez Deletes Tweet Baselessly Accusing Opponents of Running Twitter Bot Army



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.) deleted tweets Thursday that accused GOP operatives of running a Twitter bot operation without evidence.
> 
> MapLight reporter Andrew Perez noted on Twitter that a billboard put up in Times Square attacking Ocasio-Cortez was paid for by the Job Creators Network, which has also given money to lobbying firm Berman & Co. and GOP political strategy firm Cavalry LLC.
> 
> *"If you notice a lot more trolls on social media re: politics, it’s bc Mitch McConnell’s former Chief of Staff helps run a multimillion dollar operation to have bot accounts manipulate online discourse," Ocasio-Cortez quote-tweeted.*


Bold mine.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

I blame drugs...

Related:

Ocasio-Cortez Tries To Defend Herself From 'Wack' Billboard. She Failed.



> Socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) tried to defend herself on Wednesday from a billboard that attacked her, and she failed miserably.


More:



> The 29-year-old bartender turned politician was unable to dispute the message on the billboard — that she cost New Yorkers tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of economic activities — so she resorted to attacking the people behind the billboard.
> 
> 
> Ocasio-Cortez said that economic disaster that she caused was "incredible," and she thought, incorrectly, that the $3 billion in tax breaks that were going to go to Amazon still existed after Amazon pulled out of NYC.
> 
> ...
> 
> *New York City Democrat Mayor Bill de Blasio had to correct Ocasio-Cortez for not understanding the situation.*


Bold mine.

Huh. Another ignorant Prog.

Shocka...


----------



## eMacMan

Talk about hypocrites:







Yep you can see it here:
https://www.thewrap.com/chris-cuomo-compares-maga-hat-to-shirt-that-says-i-hate-black-people-video/

FWIW I have no idea how one spins 'Make America Great Again' into 'I Hate Blacks'. Then again, anytime his lips move, Cuomo tends to pin the needle on my BS meter.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Felonia von Pantsuit.

FBI Officials Wanted To Charge Hillary Clinton — Turns Out, They Should Have



> Deep State: The plot, as always in the Russia investigation, thickens. It never thins. Now we find out, contrary to what former FBI Director James Comey said, that top FBI officials wanted to charge Hillary Clinton for criminally misusing her homebrew email server and compromising American secrets. The lies continue to unravel.
> 
> This is the Deep State on steroids. *If newly appointed Attorney General William Barr decides to clean house, and we hope he does, he'll have his hands full.*
> 
> Meanwhile, as former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe continues his self-destructive book tour, it's increasingly obvious he too was part of a far-reaching plot to take down President Trump. They based it on the flimsiest of evidence.
> 
> Of course, as we've said, it's possible Special Counsel Robert Mueller has a surprise up his sleeve when he wraps up his Trump-Russia investigation. But if not, then the actions of key leaders in both the FBI and Justice Department constitute an extra-constitutional effort to subvert America's democratic republic. That is, a silent coup.


Oh please, oh please, oh please...


----------



## FeXL

Why not? After all, imagine how many votes, I mean, goodwill, that would buy.

And, _and_, immediately after that, Fauxcahontas could propose reparations for 1/1024 of her relatives...

Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris Back Reparations for Blacks



> Wow.
> 
> Meanwhile, the NeverTrumpers scheme about how to put a Democrat in the White House. To teach us a lesson.
> 
> (That lesson is, "Never trust us nor ally yourselves with us ever again." A lesson we've already fully internalized, Ladies.)


----------



## FeXL

12 Of The Craziest College Classes In America, All Subsidized By Your Tax Dollars



> It’s a common understanding that America’s colleges and universities are thick with leftist professors, administrators, and young progressives-in-training who pay through the nose for a “higher” education. But what exactly makes up an education today? As someone who’s been on dozens of embattled liberal campuses in the last two years, I’m still surprised by the absurd courses offered at the institutions people around the world consider to be elite.


If this wasn't so frightening, it'd be hilarious... :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Raising minimum wage causes job recessions? Who knew?

$15 Minimum Wage Sparks A Jobs Recession In New York



> ...What isn't making headlines are the thousands of jobs being destroyed right now thanks to the city's new $15 minimum wage
> 
> Over the past four years, the minimum wage for New York City restaurants that employ more than 10 workers went from $10.50 an hour to $15. That's a whopping 43% increase. Next year, every restaurant, big and small, will have to pay their workers at least $15 an hour.
> 
> A big victory for workers, right? That's how it's depicted by the "Fight for $15" crowd. And, yes, if you held a full-time minimum-wage job over those years, your gross income would have gone up by $9,360.
> 
> But those massive wage hikes come at a painful cost that backers refuse to acknowledge. They kill jobs. Just like they're doing right now in New York City.
> 
> In just the last three months of last year, 4,000 workers lost jobs at full-service restaurants, Bureau of Labor Statistics data show.


The _progressive thinkers_ didn't.


----------



## macintosh doctor

i thought it was very interesting that The Oscars.. the most secure event of the year protected by SWAT teams, surrounded by Erected Walls, Secured Fences to protect the most hypocritical hollywood elite that demand open borders LOL


----------



## CubaMark

_President Dumbass strikes again, and again we see those around him doing their best to mitigate his bufoonery..._ :lmao:

*Watch: Chinese Official Laughs Out Loud When President Trump Shows He Doesn’t Understand WTF He’s Talking About*










The president of people who fry Oreos and pickles continues to prove without a doubt that he’s got no idea what he’s doing. In the continuous Weekend at Bernie’s movie of our lives, the president of people who believe that roadkill is still edible meat doesn’t understand legal terminology.

The moment began when America’s lead trade negotiator, Robert Lighthizer, tried to explain to President Dumb Ass that “memorandums of understanding” are contracts.

Lighthizer tried to do his best not to embarrass the president but that would have required the trade negotiator to go back to when the president lied about having bone spurs to avoid going to war.

From HuffPost:

It started when Trump was asked by a reporter how long “memorandums of understanding” being negotiated with China over trade disputes would last.

Trump shot back: “I don’t like MOUs because they don’t mean anything.”

Lighthizer calmly corrected the president, and turned to explain to reporters: “An MOU is a contract. It’s the way trade agreements are generally [established]. It’s an actual contract between the two parties. A memo of understanding is a binding agreement.”

He added: “It’s detailed, it covers everything. ... It’s a legal term; it’s a contract.”​
“I disagree,” said a scowling Trump, causing top Chinese negotiator Vice Premier Liu He to laugh. “A memorandum of understanding is exactly that: It’s a memorandum of what our understanding is,” he said, circling his hands in the air. “How long will that take to put into a ... contract?”

Lighthizer realized that he was arguing with a goddamn fool and changed tactics.

“From now on we’re not using ‘memorandum of understanding’ anymore”—sparking laughter from several people in the room—“we’re going to use the term ‘trade agreement.’ We’ll have the same document; it’s going to be called a trade agreement. We’re never going to have an MOU again.”

“Good,” said Trump.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWa61AyT3g[/ame]

(HuffPo via TheRoot)​


----------



## Macfury

Trump is right: an MOU is a nonbinding statement that might lead to a contract. 

Lightziger is way out of his depth, as are you CubaMark.


----------



## SINC

Macfury said:


> Trump is right: an MOU is a nonbinding statement that might lead to a contract.
> 
> Lightziger is way out of his depth, as are you CubaMark.


I have watched our local city council enact MOUs many, many times over the years and 99% of them never come to pass in the form presented. Most are turfed and the odd one actually leads to a signed agreement that differs from the original in many ways after negotiations. They are always used to cite future deals or changes that are subject to change and non-binding.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Trump is right: an MOU is a nonbinding statement that might lead to a contract.


Not exactly, and not universally.



Macfury said:


> Lightziger is way out of his depth,


One would think that being the President's lead trade negotiator would inherently mean the guy knows what he's talking about....

MOUs, depending on the language employed and the presence (or lack) of phrasing indicating the malleable nature of the agreement could still have legal ramifications, e.g.:

https://legalvision.com.au/memorandum-of-understanding-legally-binding/




Macfury said:


> ...as are you CubaMark.


I'm certainly not an international trade agreements negotiator. But let's remember the context here: Trump's experience of MOUs as a private businessman, particularly one who has treated contracts as worth less than the paper they're printed on, does not apply to the high-level trade negotiations being discussed here. Context matters.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _President Dumbass strikes again, and again we see those around him doing their best to mitigate his bufoonery..._ :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Watch: Chinese Official Laughs Out Loud When President Trump Shows He Doesn’t Understand WTF He’s Talking About*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The president of people who fry Oreos and pickles continues to prove without a doubt that he’s got no idea what he’s doing. In the continuous Weekend at Bernie’s movie of our lives, the president of people who believe that roadkill is still edible meat doesn’t understand legal terminology.
> 
> 
> 
> The moment began when America’s lead trade negotiator, Robert Lighthizer, tried to explain to President Dumb Ass that “memorandums of understanding” are contracts.
> 
> 
> 
> Lighthizer tried to do his best not to embarrass the president but that would have required the trade negotiator to go back to when the president lied about having bone spurs to avoid going to war.
> 
> 
> 
> From HuffPost:
> 
> 
> 
> It started when Trump was asked by a reporter how long “memorandums of understanding” being negotiated with China over trade disputes would last.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump shot back: “I don’t like MOUs because they don’t mean anything.”
> 
> 
> 
> Lighthizer calmly corrected the president, and turned to explain to reporters: “An MOU is a contract. It’s the way trade agreements are generally [established]. It’s an actual contract between the two parties. A memo of understanding is a binding agreement.”
> 
> 
> 
> He added: “It’s detailed, it covers everything. ... It’s a legal term; it’s a contract.”​
> 
> 
> “I disagree,” said a scowling Trump, causing top Chinese negotiator Vice Premier Liu He to laugh. “A memorandum of understanding is exactly that: It’s a memorandum of what our understanding is,” he said, circling his hands in the air. “How long will that take to put into a ... contract?”
> 
> 
> 
> Lighthizer realized that he was arguing with a goddamn fool and changed tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> “From now on we’re not using ‘memorandum of understanding’ anymore”—sparking laughter from several people in the room—“we’re going to use the term ‘trade agreement.’ We’ll have the same document; it’s going to be called a trade agreement. We’re never going to have an MOU again.”
> 
> 
> 
> “Good,” said Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWa61AyT3g[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> (HuffPo via TheRoot)​




Such an idiot. He represents his base well.


----------



## Macfury

Nice work Freddie--you bring so much to the table!


----------



## Macfury

Lightziger wants the MOU to be binding and Trump also wants its terms to be binding. They may disagree on the terminology, however, a trade deal needs to be ratified by Congress before it can bind the US.



CubaMark said:


> Not exactly, and not universally.
> 
> 
> 
> One would think that being the President's lead trade negotiator would inherently mean the guy knows what he's talking about....
> 
> MOUs, depending on the language employed and the presence (or lack) of phrasing indicating the malleable nature of the agreement could still have legal ramifications, e.g.:
> 
> https://legalvision.com.au/memorandum-of-understanding-legally-binding/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm certainly not an international trade agreements negotiator. But let's remember the context here: Trump's experience of MOUs as a private businessman, particularly one who has treated contracts as worth less than the paper they're printed on, does not apply to the high-level trade negotiations being discussed here. Context matters.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> _President Dumbass strikes again, and again we see those around him doing their best to mitigate his bufoonery..._ :lmao:
> 
> *Watch: Chinese Official Laughs Out Loud When President Trump Shows He Doesn’t Understand WTF He’s Talking About*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The president of people who fry Oreos and pickles continues to prove without a doubt that he’s got no idea what he’s doing. In the continuous Weekend at Bernie’s movie of our lives, the president of people who believe that roadkill is still edible meat doesn’t understand legal terminology.
> 
> The moment began when America’s lead trade negotiator, Robert Lighthizer, tried to explain to President Dumb Ass that “memorandums of understanding” are contracts.
> 
> Lighthizer tried to do his best not to embarrass the president but that would have required the trade negotiator to go back to when the president lied about having bone spurs to avoid going to war.
> 
> From HuffPost:
> 
> It started when Trump was asked by a reporter how long “memorandums of understanding” being negotiated with China over trade disputes would last.
> 
> Trump shot back: “I don’t like MOUs because they don’t mean anything.”
> 
> Lighthizer calmly corrected the president, and turned to explain to reporters: “An MOU is a contract. It’s the way trade agreements are generally [established]. It’s an actual contract between the two parties. A memo of understanding is a binding agreement.”
> 
> He added: “It’s detailed, it covers everything. ... It’s a legal term; it’s a contract.”​
> “I disagree,” said a scowling Trump, causing top Chinese negotiator Vice Premier Liu He to laugh. “A memorandum of understanding is exactly that: It’s a memorandum of what our understanding is,” he said, circling his hands in the air. “How long will that take to put into a ... contract?”
> 
> Lighthizer realized that he was arguing with a goddamn fool and changed tactics.
> 
> “From now on we’re not using ‘memorandum of understanding’ anymore”—sparking laughter from several people in the room—“we’re going to use the term ‘trade agreement.’ We’ll have the same document; it’s going to be called a trade agreement. We’re never going to have an MOU again.”
> 
> “Good,” said Trump.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWa61AyT3g
> 
> (HuffPo via TheRoot)​


Don't know anything about MOU's and others have replied to it. I do find the article incredibly divisive as it seems to attack anyone who is not on the same level as the writer. Attacking people who fry oreos or pickles? I am no foodie but I have seen fried pickles on restaurant menus many times. Is he calling anyone who orders them a buffoon? I do not get fried oreos, but if people like it what is his problem with it? Seems like he is trying to call anyone who he deems a red neck as a complete moron. A shame not everyone thinks the same. Maybe he will have his Orwellian future soon. The language the writer uses makes him sound unhinged.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> The language the writer uses makes him sound unhinged.


Progs sounding unhinged? :yikes:

Shocka...


----------



## 18m2

The argument should have been resolved in a more private setting. The argument makes Trump look like an aggressive child. 

FWIW, a MoU can become a binding agreement if there is an offer made, acceptance given, consideration and most important an intention that it (the MoU) be legally binding.


----------



## Rps

MOUs in trade agreements are contracts due to the verbiage which contains elements which constitute a contract. Usually non binding MOUs are written to state they are not or do not contain elements of a contract. Take for example the AutoPact, it was a MOU.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Lightziger is way out of his depth, as are you CubaMark.


As Neo offtimes quips, you can almost "smell the journalism"...

Not only Lightziger and The Bigot, but the author of that article, too: Oregon just legalized harvesting roadkill for food. The Land of Fruit Loops & Whackos is proposing a law stating the same.

From the first link:



> Oregon joins states like Washington, Georgia, Colorado, New York, Maryland, Illinois and Pennsylvania...


Yep, there's some Trump supporters there but there's a helluva lot that aren't too.

In addition, I've had a deep-fried Orea once. In Vegas, on Freemont St. The line was long & distinguished & appeared pretty bipartisan to me.

Leave it to a brain-dead bigoted Prog ex-"journalist" to quote another brain-dead bigoted Prog "journalist" as some sort of moral authority on _anything_...


----------



## Macfury

18m2 said:


> The argument should have been resolved in a more private setting. The argument makes Trump look like an aggressive child.
> 
> FWIW, a MoU can become a binding agreement if there is an offer made, acceptance given, consideration and most important an intention that it (the MoU) be legally binding.


It's up to Trump's subordinates to avoid arguments.

An MoU_ can_ become a binding agreement. This one can't. It needs to be ratified first.


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MOUs in trade agreements are contracts due to the verbiage which contains elements which constitute a contract. Usually non binding MOUs are written to state they are not or do not contain elements of a contract. Take for example the AutoPact, it was a MOU.


Is this why the US unilaterally changes the details of the AutoPact?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Is this why the US unilaterally changes the details of the AutoPact?


Actually, they didn’t. It was the VW claim with the WTO and the signing of NAFTA to a certain extent. With NAFTA the U.S. gave AutoPact rates if the goods qualified for NAFTA...in Canada we still held to the AutoPact rules until the WTO held the AutoPact was inviolation.


----------



## Macfury

So how does the AutoPact qualify as an MOU if it was ratified by the House and Senate and signed by both Pearson and Johnson?


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

It's time to quit trashing Obama's accomplishments



> I feel much better now. I had been under the impression he hadn't done ANYTHING.


Me, too. :lmao:


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> So how does the AutoPact qualify as an MOU if it was ratified by the House and Senate and signed by both Pearson and Johnson?


You are forgetting the tariff and importation laws. The MOU is the “coles notes” version the legislative bodies write and approve the laws supporting it.


----------



## Rps

MacFury am I missing a post here? I thought you had a question on the MOU and the WTO?


----------



## 18m2

Macfury said:


> It's up to Trump's subordinates to avoid arguments.


You are absolutely correct and I apologize for my error.

Letting him ramble on making mistakes is better as most people recognize he's usually wrong or has exaggerated.

I'm reminded of my mother who in her mid nineties suffered from age related dementia. We, myself and my sisters, decided it served no purpose to try to persuade her or argue. We would simply smile and agree only to find she'd forgotten the conversation shortly there after.

I'm convinced that strategy will work for Trump too.


----------



## FeXL

Oopsie! CNN Actively Hid the Fact That Many of the "Ordinary Voters" At Its Bernie Sanders Townhall Were Actually Democrat Party Functionaries



> This is just SOP.
> 
> This is an apple.
> 
> Update: We regret having failed to inform our audience that this apple is actually a high-ranking Banana with a Democrat-linked banana lobbying firm.


Related:

CNN: Trump's Attempts at Forging a North Korean Peace/Denuclearization Pact Are... Officially, Intentionally a "Distraction" from Cohen Testimony



> This is CNN:
> 
> According to CNN, President Trump is using his progress in denuclearization of the Korean peninsula to distract from their fake news. pic.twitter.com/bM82jZyQRC
> — Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) February 27, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Democrats dancing the Masque of the Red Death



> The Democrats...their mask having slipped, and finally exposed as 'Reds' [read: Communists]...are going full steam 'forward' toward 2020, and watching them dancing "ring around the rosie, pockets full of Socialist posies" in Congress makes one mindful of Edgar Allen Poe's 1842 classic about a pestilence that devastated a country, "The Masque of the Red Death."
> 
> While we witness the Democrats (C) dancing, we also are witness to a dead Republic walking...
> *- Consider just how quickly Socialism destroyed Venezuela from 2012 to 2019.*


Bold mine...


----------



## Macfury

Interesting post on Cohen from Trump confidante Lynne Patton:



> Many of you may already know that I considered Michael Cohen to be one of my very best friends. Countless people can confirm that we were virtually inseparable during my employment at Trump – and that he is, single-handedly – responsible for introducing me to the Trump family and effectively changing my entire life. I would be lying if I didn’t admit that my heart still breaks for him and for his family, with whom I had grown extremely close.
> 
> What many of you may not be aware of is the fact that* I can personally confirm that the ONLY reason Michael Cohen “turned on” the President of the United States is because Mueller threatened to throw his wife in jail for up to 30 years. Period.* She is the co-guarantor of a $20M personal loan that Mueller discovered Michael secured back in 2015 by falsely inflating the value of his taxi medallions – effectively making her part & parcel to the federal charge of “Making False Statements to a Financial Institution,” to which Cohen ultimately plead guilty.


https://www.facebook.com/633547903/posts/10157135090887904/


----------



## FeXL

Dyslexia Keeps it 'Real'



> After lecturing* Americans to eat fewer hamburgers to save the planet from bovine flatulence ["like, not eating hamburgers for breakfast, lunch and dinner, like keep it real"] she calmly enjoys a hamburger lunch with her Chief of Staff thereby"keeping it real" but...as with most self-important know-it-all Socialists the 'real what' is - as usual - do as I say, not as I do.


More:



> *I'm not sure Larry Kudlow said this, but it's pretty clear to anyone who is not retarded...er, a Democratic Socialist...that Dyslexia does not know her ass from her elbow.


No argument.

Related:


----------



## FeXL

Oh, no! Please! I'll take the rack, instead! Or burning tar! Anything but...the _List_!!! :yikes:

Alexandria Donkey-Chompers: I'm Putting All Democrats Who Don't Vote for My Venezuela Socialism Schemes on a "List"



> Breakfast Club Evita.
> 
> After more than two dozen moderate Democrats broke from their party's progressive wing and sided with Republicans on a legislative amendment Wednesday, New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez reportedly sounded the alarm in a closed-door meeting Thursday and said those Democrats were "putting themselves on a list."​


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Imagine having a brain...

Virginia Democrat Governor Jeremy Northam's Racial Reconciliation Tour Takes a Strange Twist When His Wife Hands Out Cotton to African American Students and Implores Them to Imagine Being Slaves



> So these are the lessons we have to learn due to _Jeremy Northam's_ wearing of blackface in the 80s.
> 
> A Virginia state employee has complained that her eighth-grade daughter was upset during a tour of the historic governor’s residence when first lady Pam Northam handed raw cotton to her and another African American child and asked them to imagine being enslaved and having to pick the crop.​


----------



## FeXL

Bro-Fo Omar, anti-semitic? Curious, that...

Ilhan Omar Quietly Deletes Some of Her Past Anti-Semitic Tweets



> Rep. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) deleted tweets this week containing some of her publicly anti-Semitic comments after having apologized for her words but not her views.
> 
> In early February, Omar made a series of ill-advised tweets concerning Jewish Americans, the state of Israel, and the United States government.
> 
> Omar peddled in anti-Semitic stereotypes, mischaracterized a pro-Israel lobbying group, and garnered praise from the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. She shared a tweet from far-left journalist Glenn Greenwald, who claimed Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R., Calif.) was "defending a foreign nation" and "attacking free speech rights of Americans."


----------



## FeXL

Widespread National Food Stamp Fraud Totals at Least $1 Billion, Could Be as High as $4.7 Billion



> According to a new report produced by the Government and Accountability Office (GAO), at least $1 billion in food stamp benefits are "trafficked annually," meaning they are fraudulently used. The extent of the fraud is uncertain, the GAO warns, estimating the abuse of the program could be as high as $4.7 billion.
> 
> About 20 million lower-income households receive benefits from the $64 billion Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), also known as food stamps, to buy food. But GAO found that instead of being used for food, many stores are defrauding the program by "selling" cash instead of food.
> 
> "For example, a store might give a person $50 in exchange for $100 in benefits – then pocket the difference," GAO explains.


----------



## FeXL

Highest Economic Optimism in 16 Years; 50% Report They're Better Off Under Trump



> That's 50% who are willing to _admit_ they're better off under Trump. In fact, 100% are.


Yeppers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Is that how it was for you Freddie? In a short time, you can pick Rachel Notley for your team--she won't be busy!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Whooosh. This is the American Thread, by the way.


----------



## Macfury

I thought you might identify with not being picked for a team and were putting up that photo in solidarity. Of course, both those gents were picked to be heads of countries... but you weren't.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Whooosh. This is the American Thread, by the way.


----------



## Macfury

Not one for conspiracy theories, but looking at this video featuring Hillary. Can't say this looks or sounds like her:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Like all Progs, A Occasional Cortex's actions speak louder than her words.

Gas-guzzling car rides expose AOC’s hypocrisy amid Green New Deal pledge



> Freshman Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to save the planet with her Green New Deal, but she keeps tripping over her own giant carbon footprint.
> 
> ...
> 
> But the woman who boasts of a “razor-sharp BS detector” seems to have trouble sniffing out her own.
> 
> Since declaring her candidacy in May 2017, Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign heavily relied on those combustion-engine cars — even though a subway station was just 138 feet from her Elmhurst campaign office.
> 
> She listed 1,049 transactions for Uber, Lyft, Juno and other car services, federal filings show. The campaign had 505 Uber expenses alone.
> 
> *In all, Ocasio-Cortez spent $29,365.70 on those emissions-spewing vehicles, along with car and van rentals — even though her Queens HQ was a one-minute walk to the 7 train*


Bold mine.

*"Do as I say, not as I do..."*

F'ing hypocrites...


----------



## FeXL

Iowa Looks to Punish Businesses Hiring Illegals After Mollie Tibbetts Death



> Iowa state lawmakers are looking to crack down on businesses hiring illegal aliens in the wake of 20-year-old Mollie Tibbetts’ alleged murder by an illegal alien.
> 
> A measure by 26 Iowa state Senate Republicans would strip businesses who knowingly hire illegal aliens of their business licenses and would mandate that employers use the E-Verify system — which weeds out illegal aliens from taking American jobs — before receiving any Iowa tax dollars in the form of economic development incentives.


Good.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Demands Gavin Newsom Return $3.5 Billion for Canceled Bullet Train; Newsom: It’s ‘California’s Money’ Now



> President Donald Trump demanded Wednesday evening that the State of California return $3.5 billion in federal funds after Gov. Gavin Newsom canceled most of the state’s high-speed rail project, saying it was too expensive.
> 
> “California has been forced to cancel the massive bullet train project after having spent and wasted many billions of dollars,” the president tweeted. “They owe the Federal Government three and a half billion dollars. We want that money back now. Whole project is a “green” disaster!”


Helluva start on that shiny new wall!


----------



## FeXL

So, let's talk this Prog Green New Turd some.

Green New Deal Would Cost $93 Trillion, over Four Times the National Debt



> American Action Forum (AAF), a conservative non-profit run by former Congressional Budget Office (CBO) director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, released a study on Monday which found that Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal could cost somewhere between $51 and $93 trillion over the next ten years.
> 
> America’s current national debt surpassed $22 trillion this year, which means the Green New Deal could cost more than four times the national debt.
> 
> “The Green New Deal is clearly very expensive,” AAF said in its report. “It’s further expansion of the federal government’s role in some of the most basic decisions of daily life, however, would likely have a more lasting and damaging impact than its enormous price tag.”


Again, I ask: For those of you who were silent on Barry's profligate spending, then p!$$ed & moaned about Trump's spending, where are you on this TGF?

Jes' wond'rin'...


----------



## FeXL

Mike Lee excoriates Dems over separation of powers & federalism: Where was your outrage under Obama?



> Republican Utah Sen. Mike Lee criticized Democrats on Thursday for their selective outrage over America’s deviation from federalism and the separation of powers when a Republican controls the executive branch, but not holding a Democrat to the same standard.
> 
> As an homage to the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, Lee used Scalia’s words to explain why federalism should matter to all Americans, stating that “any tin horn dictator around the word can have a bill of rights, but whether or not it’s able to protect you … depends on the extent to which that system of government constrains those in power and prevents them from accumulating excessive power.”


----------



## SINC

Yeah, Albertans know this guy and what he did, thus the protest.


----------



## SINC

*Hillary Clinton says she will not run for president in 2020*

_She's ruling out a rematch with Trump, but she says she's 'not going anywhere'_



> WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton says she won’t run for president in 2020, but vows she’s “not going anywhere.”
> 
> The former secretary of state, senator and first lady ruled out another campaign during an interview posted Monday by New York TV station News12.
> 
> Clinton, who lost the 2016 presidential election to Donald Trump, says, “I’m going to keep on working and speaking and standing up for what I believe.”
> 
> She says, “What’s at stake in our country, the kind of things that are happening right now are deeply troubling to me.”
> 
> She says she has spoken with several of the candidates seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, and has told them, “Don’t take anything for granted, even though we have a long list of real problems and broken promises” from the Trump administration.


https://nationalpost.com/news/world...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1551792098


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> Hillary Clinton says she will not run for president in 2020


Awwww. 

FeXL has the sadz...


----------



## CubaMark

_So the free-marketers in this thread make no bones about how onerous corporate tax rates are these days, but I wonder how y'all feel about this? _

*Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018*

While some people have received some surprise tax bills when filing their returns, corporations continue to avoid paying tax — thanks to a cocktail of tax credits, loopholes, and exemptions.

According to a report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), Amazon (AMZN) will pay nothing in federal income taxes for the second year in a row.

Thanks to the new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), Amazon’s federal tax responsibility is 21% (down from 35% in previous years). But with the help of tax breaks, according to corporate filings, Amazon won’t be paying a dime to Uncle Sam despite posting more than $11.2 billion in profits in 2018.

* * *

Revelations about Amazon’s tax liability come despite President Trump’s very public criticisms of Amazon and Bezos for not paying enough tax. The president had promised his new tax law would end special interest breaks and close loopholes, but it’s clear that isn’t the case, says Wamhoff.

“This is another situation where the rhetoric from President Trump is completely divorced from what he does and what his policies do,” explained Wamhoff. “The part about cutting corporate tax rate was true. And they eliminated some corporate tax rates but not all.”

He added: “The corporate tax revenue was a big loser. We aren’t going to see corporations suddenly paying more. We see that in the case of Amazon.”

Declining tax revenue has only widened deficits, as national debt has ballooned up and over $22 trillion.

(Yahoo News)​


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> _So the free-marketers in this thread make no bones about how onerous corporate tax rates are these days, but I wonder how y'all feel about this? _
> 
> *Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018*
> 
> While some people have received some surprise tax bills when filing their returns, corporations continue to avoid paying tax — thanks to a cocktail of tax credits, loopholes, and exemptions.
> 
> According to a report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), Amazon (AMZN) will pay nothing in federal income taxes for the second year in a row.
> 
> Thanks to the new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), Amazon’s federal tax responsibility is 21% (down from 35% in previous years). But with the help of tax breaks, according to corporate filings, Amazon won’t be paying a dime to Uncle Sam despite posting more than $11.2 billion in profits in 2018.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Revelations about Amazon’s tax liability come despite President Trump’s very public criticisms of Amazon and Bezos for not paying enough tax. The president had promised his new tax law would end special interest breaks and close loopholes, but it’s clear that isn’t the case, says Wamhoff.
> 
> “This is another situation where the rhetoric from President Trump is completely divorced from what he does and what his policies do,” explained Wamhoff. “The part about cutting corporate tax rate was true. And they eliminated some corporate tax rates but not all.”
> 
> He added: “The corporate tax revenue was a big loser. We aren’t going to see corporations suddenly paying more. We see that in the case of Amazon.”
> 
> Declining tax revenue has only widened deficits, as national debt has ballooned up and over $22 trillion.
> 
> (Yahoo News)​




I wonder what the balance is based on the number of people they employee who pay taxes. I have no issue with tax savings for companies that employe a lot of peopled bring those people to a community who in tern spend money at local businesses.


----------



## Macfury

Where were you when GE received _rebates_ under Obama?



CubaMark said:


> _So the free-marketers in this thread make no bones about how onerous corporate tax rates are these days, but I wonder how y'all feel about this?_


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Quote the exact passage where I have _ever_ noted _anything_ about "onerous corporate tax rates".

Be precise.



CubaMark said:


> So the free-marketers in this thread make no bones about how onerous corporate tax rates are these days, but I wonder how y'all feel about this?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Where were you when GE received _rebates_ under Obama?


Under Barry's desk...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Under Barry's desk...


He casts equal shade at Barry... but he never posted it online.


----------



## Macfury

Useless Michael Bloomberg has opted out of running for president as a Democrat. Love this statement:


> "It’s essential that we nominate a Democrat who will be in the strongest position to defeat Donald Trump and bring our country back together," said Bloomberg.


As though the country was "together" under Obama. Republicans were simply more polite about having that loose canon in office.


----------



## FeXL

Progs hardest hurt.

NY Times Backs Up Trump’s “Duct-Taped Women at the Border” Claim



> Remember when the mainstream media sneered at President Trump’s claims on how people allegedly being tied up, bound, and duct-taped women at the border? These outlets included CNN and _The Washington Post_.
> 
> As it turns out, Trump was right. The media outlet going on the record to correct the “fact checkers” on this issue is the _New York Times_, the queen bee of liberal media outlets, and certainly no friend of the president’s.


----------



## FeXL

Bro-Fo Omar anti-semitic?

Shocka...

Engel Rips Omar for ‘Invoking a Vile Anti-Semitic Slur’ With Latest Remarks on Israel



> Rep. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) again found herself receiving blistering criticism for anti-Semitic remarks on Friday, *and once again it came from a fellow Democrat*.
> 
> Omar, after already being forced to apologize last month for saying pro-Israel politicians are paid off to do so, said Wednesday she wanted to "talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country," clearly referencing Israel. She also accused her "Jewish colleagues" of bigotry, saying she feared her anti-Israel rhetoric was considered anti-Semitic by them because she is a Muslim.
> 
> Rep. Eliot Engel (D., N.Y.), who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Committee that Omar sits on, blasted Omar in a statement for "invoking a vile anti-Semitic slur."


M'bold.

I jes' luvs it when they eat their own...

Related:

Ilhan Omar: Asking Me to Apologize for My Attacks on Jews for Having Dual Loyalties Is Just a Jewish Plot to Demand My Allegiance to Israel



> Interesting!
> 
> Our democracy is built on debate, Congresswoman! I should not be expected to have allegiance/pledge support to a foreign country in order to serve my country in Congress or serve on committee. The people of the 5th elected me to serve their interest. I am sure we agree on that! https://t.co/gglAS4FVJW
> — Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) March 3, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Questions, questions, questions...

Why Does Gallup Hate Reporting Conservatives' Overwhelming National Majority?



> The latest Gallup Poll on February 22, 2019 has news that ought to be happy for conservatives. In 43 states, conservatives outnumber liberals and in 6 states — Hawaii, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Vermont, New York, and Washington — liberals outnumber conservatives. California is evenly split. The title of this article was actually better than most: "Conservatives Greatly Outnumber Liberals in 19 U.S. States."
> 
> Those who have followed my articles over the last ten years know that every single polling organization — and practically all of these are leftist in tilt — show a conservative majority in America, and it has been the same over the last fifty years. Many conservatives, perversely, find this good news as unlikely as if they were self-deluded leftists, but if the leftist establishment could possibly make the data produce a conservative minority, trust me they would.
> 
> Gallup, while it presents the data showing an overwhelming preponderance of conservative strength when the data are looked at on a state-by-state basis, uses the title of its articles announcing the data to downplay the big story.


----------



## FeXL

There we go! That's the Felonia von Pantsuit I know & love!!!

Hillary Clinton Now Peddling Evidence-Free Conspiracy Theories That "Between 40 and 80,000" Black Voters Were Turned Away from the Polls in Wisconsin



> They told me if I voted for Trump, bitter revanchist politicians would undermine democracy by making up Alex Jones level FakeNews about rigged elections, and they were right!
> 
> From the Washington Post, which awarded her four Pinnochios -- but I betcha Oliver Darcy won't be campaigning to get her deplatformed, now will he?
> 
> "I was the first person who ran for president without the protection of the Voting Rights Act, and I will tell you, it makes a really big difference. And it doesn't just make a difference in Alabama and Georgia; it made a difference in Wisconsin, where the best studies that have been done said somewhere between 40 [thousand] and 80,000 people were turned away from the polls because of the color of their skin, because of their age, because of whatever excuse could be made up to stop a fellow American citizen from voting."​


Of course it did!


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

Hillary Clinton Flip-Flops: Might Still Run in 2020



> A source “close with” Hillary Clinton says she has not “close[d] the door” on a 2020 presidential run.
> 
> This, obviously, is a complete reversal of what she said in an interview Monday.
> 
> “I’m not running,” she told News 12, “but I’m going to keep working and speaking and standing up for what I believe.”
> 
> Even when asked about running for another kind of elected office, for governor or mayor, Clinton laughed it off and said, “I don’t think so.”
> 
> But now, just two days later, Clinton appears to regret making those comments, and her team is leaking a walk-back through a friendly anti-Trump reporter.


Related:

Hillary lets the NY Times know that she didn’t really mean it when she said she wasn’t going to run for president



> My guess is that she was a bit surprised and upset at the speed with which sighs of relief were heard from most Democrats – not just the contenders for the nomination, but across the board, including the rank and file. She is rightly afraid that she is now relegated to has-been status, someone who can be ignored. The comment on John Kerry reveals the jealousy and fear she feels that other Democrats may eclipse her in prominence, influence, and the ability to command speaker’s fees and raise money.


Felonia for 2020!!!


----------



## Macfury

Why does she even have a "team" at this point?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Why does she even have a "team" at this point?


Honestly? I think it makes her feel special to wield power over somebody, like she's still relevant & part of something. Anything.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk anti-semitism, Progs & Bro-Fo Omar s'more.

These 2020 Democratic Hopefuls Released Statements On Omar’s Israel Remarks



> 2020 presidential hopefuls Sen. Kamala Harris of California, Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, and Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont each released statements Wednesday addressing the backlash Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar is facing for her allegedly anti-Semitic statements.
> 
> ...
> 
> *None of them criticized Omar’s comments either.*


Bold mine.

Ilhan Omar Supporters Slam Democratic Leadership: ‘It is No Longer Political Suicide to Criticize Israel’



> Rallying in support of Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), under fire for comments about Israel and Jews, Muslim, left-wing Jewish and other figures said Wednesday the U.S. was undergoing a time of transition, with criticism of Israel no longer “taboo” or “political suicide” for members of Congress.


Criticism? Fine. Anti-semitism? Hell, no!

How Do You Solve a Problem Like Ilhan Omar?



> But in Omar’s case, that’s far from the worst of it. Conservatives are accustomed to leftists hiding their true motives and feelings as they attempt to claw their way to political control over all of us, but Omar is different in that she makes no attempt to disguise her true feelings, either about America or the Jews. Anti-Western to her core, she rewards the generosity of the Americans toward the Somali Muslim community by spitting in our faces.


----------



## CubaMark

*Jared Kushner goes rogue in Saudi Arabia, prompting national security concerns*

Jared Kushner has gone rogue. 

Donald Trump’s senior White House adviser once again abandoned government normalities during an official state trip to Saudi Arabia, reportedly discussing US-Saudi cooperation with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in a meeting that lacked representation from the US Embassy in Riyadh. 

The 38-year-old adviser also discussed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the US’ economic investment in the Middle East with Saudi royalty, including King Salman, according to a White House readout from the trip that was released just as the president’s former lawyer Michael Cohen began his explosive public testimony on Capitol Hill last week. 

Mr Kushner’s quiet undertaking of such high-profile meetings has raised national security concerns from military and intelligence officials, who said the president’s son-in-law was “undermining US authority” in the region.

Naveed Jamali — a former US Defence Department intelligence officer and double agent — told The Independent the Trump administration has frequently “blurred the lines of communication” between government agencies by sending Mr Kushner to meet with top international officials. 

** * *​*
Mark Hertling, a former US Army officer, lambasted the White House administration in a tweet for reportedly failing to include “critical subject matters experts” in Mr Kushner’s meetings with Saudi royalty. 

Walter Shaub, the former director of the Office of Government Ethics, also asked why Mr Kushner was “having secret meetings with the Saudi government” while keeping US officials “in the dark about the substance of the meetings”. 

“Are conflicts of interest at play here?” he wrote on Twitter. 

Mr Kushner, long considered a security risk embedded in the West Wing by career intelligence officials, was reported to have conducted informal conversations on the chat app WhatsApp with the Saudi crown prince, who he has developed a relationship with since Mr Trump’s 2016 election. 

(Independent UK)


----------



## Dr.G.

" Jared Kushner has gone rogue. " Don't knock him, Mark. He is being tasked with solving the Middle East Crisis. 

Shalom, mi amigo.


----------



## Macfury

Never thought I would see the day when CubaMark pisses and moans because CIA and other Deep State assets are not getting their seat at the diplomatic table.



CubaMark said:


> *Jared Kushner goes rogue in Saudi Arabia, prompting national security concerns*
> 
> Jared Kushner has gone rogue.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Never thought I would see the day when CubaMark pisses and moans because CIA and other Deep State assets are not getting their seat at the diplomatic table.


<snort...>


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's talk Bro-Fo antisemite Omar s'more.

Congressional Black Caucus Leader and House Whip Jim Clyburn: Ilhan Omar's Experiences Are "More Personal" Than Those of Descendants of Holocaust Victims



> How is this even relevant?
> 
> Were Jews trying to kill her in Somalia, thus excusing her bitterness?
> 
> No, of course not.
> 
> ...
> 
> *This has to be one of the more bizarre efforts to protect somebody who has repeatedly peddled the worst anti-Semitic tropes, despite multiple interventions by people explaining exactly why her words were offensive. The implication is that because Omar fled Somalia she gets a free pass to target another religious minority.*​


Bold mine.

Must be more of that _progressive thinking_ on display...

Democrats Will Not Condemn Ilhan Omar or Even Antisemitism, But Will Instead Vote on the Proposition That "Hate Iz Bad"



> Rahm Emanuel wrote an opinion piece for The Atlantic stating that Ilhan Omar is antisemitic, straight-up, and should be acknowledged as such.
> 
> I'm all for new voices in the U.S. Congress. But lately, some of those new voices have been voicing some very old canards.
> 
> I'm talking about Representative Ilhan Omar, one of the newly elected Democrats who populate the 116th Congress. Omar has attracted much news coverage, and the condemnation of most of her fellow Democrats, for promoting some ugly tropes about Jews.
> 
> First, when questioning long-standing congressional support for Israel, she blamed the campaign money provided by pro-Israel supporters. "It's all about the Benjamins, baby," she tweeted.
> 
> *After apologizing for that comment and acknowledging her need to be "educated,*" she followed with another tweet, questioning the "allegiance" of supporters of Israel, intimating that we place the concerns of Israel above those of the country that we call home.​


Bold mine.

Ah, yes. Yet one more Prog who needs a edumacation...

Newest NeverTrump Sneer: Antisemitism Is No Reason to Shun Democrats Now, Either



> As you're no doubt aware, what passes for wit among the NeverTrumpers is to take a positive attribute or accomplishment of Trump's and sneer it away, with a "But" before it.
> 
> The idea being that people who actually support the conservative movement accept the NeverTrumpers' litany of reasons Orangemanbad is bad, but then say "But Gorsuch."
> 
> Or "But Kannaugh."
> 
> Or "But the economy."
> 
> Or "But abortion."
> 
> Or "But he fights."
> 
> Admitted liberal Tom Nichols now sneers away the Democrats' increasingly strident antisemitism as a new entry in the "But" parade.
> 
> Worries about antisemitism, when Jews continue to be the group most frequently targeted for hate crimes _and in fact targeted at a quickening pace_, largely because of the promotion of antisemitic tropes by people like Ilhan Omar, are now "short-term" worries, The Expert expertly declares.


Where would we be without more self-declared Prog experts?

Socialist It Girl Alexandria Donkey-Chompers Claiming Those Sneaky AIPAC Jews Are Coming After Her and Her Homegirls Ilhan and Tlaib



> Well why shouldn't you raise money to fight those Dirty Money-People.
> 
> BREAKING: Socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) is raising money by claiming that the pro-Israel group AIPAC is coming after her, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib
> 
> This comes as Democrats are embroiled in an anti-Semitism scandal pic.twitter.com/TvFEDh1UvW
> — Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) March 7, 2019​


Boogeda, boogeda...

Democrat Jan Schakowsky: *We Must Excuse the Muslim Ilhan Omar* Because She Comes from a Different Culture That Has Different Feelings About Jews and Tolerance Than We Do



> Does this mean it's acceptable to note that some of our recent arrivals from Muslim lands hold beliefs incompatible with the mainline of American pluralist thought, or does it mean only that one is permitted to note this if one is _excusing_ a Muslim immigrant's antisemitism?
> 
> That is: Is this always true or only true when defending antisemtism in Muslims or other Democrat client groups?


Bold mine.

If he had stopped at the bolded portion, he'd have been more honest...

David Duke Hails Ilhan Omar as "Most Important Member of Congress"
_Breaking: Democrats Pull "Hate Iz Bad" Resolution Completely_



> KKK Grand Wizard David Duke dubs Ilhan Omar "the most important member of the US Congress."
> 
> What do we mean by "dog whistle"? We mean that a politician's words—whether intentionally or not—activate, energize, and affirm bigots in our country. We mean this: pic.twitter.com/TYlEhMg5IY
> — (((Yair Rosenberg))) (@Yair_Rosenberg) March 7, 2019​


Illiterate Antisemite Ilhan Omar Is Very Sorry About Her "Accidental" Repetition of Antisemitic Tropes



> So sorry, in fact, that she's retweeting people accusing Meghan McCain of "faux outrage" over her antisemitism.
> 
> *That's how you can tell when someone is really sorry about something -- when they call objections to it "faux outrage."*


Bold mine.

Ah. More _progressive thinking_, I see...


----------



## FeXL

Even more on Bro-Fo Ilhan!

Ilhan Omar: Let's Face It, Trump Is Only Continuing The Terrible Policies of Barack Obama



> Geez, now she's attacking Muslims. https://t.co/7E84vHe3V7
> — John Ekdahl (@JohnEkdahl) March 8, 2019​


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!


----------



## FeXL

Maybe Jeff Sessions pulled the swamp's plug



> Betsy Woodruff of the Daily Beast had this big scoop this weekend, "It Exists: DOJ Finds Letter Ordering Scrutiny of Uranium One, Hillary Clinton."
> 
> The bureaucracy had denied the letter existed. She found her. Give her a cookie and a pat on the head.
> 
> The real story is overlooked. As attorney general, Jeff Sessions set in motion an investigation that could next year explode on Democrats.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk A Occasional Cortex s'more!

OUCH: Two More Billboards Pop Up In NYC Ripping 'The Boss' Ocasio-Cortez 



> Two more billboards ripping into Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) have popped up in New York City.
> 
> The billboards hanging on the side of a skyscraper in Times Square, first reported by Reuters, poke fun at the socialist for her widely-criticized Green New Deal and her recent comments applauding herself for her effort, labeling herself "the boss."
> 
> “Hey AOC, you’re the ‘boss’?” one of the billboards reads.“WE DON’T THINK SO. The American PEOPLE are the boss,” the other says. It also publicizes a link to TheGreenRawDeal.com, which is critical of the freshman rep’s Green New Deal.


Related:

Ocasio-Cortez’s Recent Girl Scout Story Is Probably Bullsh*t



> Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted a Raw Story headline to mock a column by a conservative writer who supposedly made the case for a “cookie boycott because AOC used to be a Girl Scout.”


Related, too:


----------



## FeXL

Good!

FaceBook Removes Elizabeth Warren Political Ads Calling for the Breakup of FaceBook, Other Tech Giants



> Looks like FaceBook wants to make Elizabeth Warren's case for her.
> 
> Facebook has removed several ads placed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign that called for the breakup of Facebook and other tech giants.
> 
> The ads, which had identical images and text, touted Warren's recently announced plan to unwind "anti-competitive" tech mergers, including Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram.
> 
> Facebook, Amazon, and Google," read the ads, which Warren's campaign had placed Friday. "We all use them. But in their rise to power, they've bulldozed competition, used our private information for profit, and tilted the playing field in their favor."
> 
> A message on the three ads reads: "This ad was taken down because it goes against Facebook's advertising policies."
> 
> A Facebook spokesperson confirmed the ads had been taken down and said the company is reviewing the matter.​


Related:

Google Manager Lectured Employee: We Have to Take Fake News and Hate Speech Seriously, Because That's Why Trump Won the Election



> Alrightee then.
> 
> Let's give Google more legal authority to Censor All The Things.
> 
> On Monday, Google software engineer Mike Wacker published an email he received from a fellow Google employee. That employee recounted a discussion with his manager in which the manager said Donald Trump won the 2016 election thanks to fake news and hate speech.​


----------



## FeXL

Nancy Pelosi: We Shouldn't Impeach Trump. He's Just Not Worth It.



> Democrat civil war a-comin'...
> 
> BREAKING: Pelosi comes out against impeaching Trumphttps://t.co/VJq71C7F83
> — Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) March 11, 2019​
> But does Nancy Pelosi matter? Is she still the actual leader of the caucus?
> 
> No, I don't think. She's been cucked by Alexandria Donkey-Chompers.
> 
> Kurt Schlichter writes on that:
> 
> The only thing that should keep you from roaring in laughter as Nancy Pelosi freaks out trying to keep a lid on the freak show that is the Democratic caucus is the knowledge that the freshmen freakettes giving her fits would impose an ideology of tyranny and murder if given the chance. *But you can still allow yourself a good giggle as you watch Nancy's dreams of a Democrat majority die on the altar of anti-Semitism, taking away your health insurance, and banning cheeseburgers. *​


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

More:



> *Of course, the Democrats never named the actual bigot because the Democrat base is affirmatively pro-bigotry. They hate Jews, Christians, white people, dissident non-white people, men, women who like men, and people who blaspheme against the creepy climate cult, among others.* The list of Bad People Who Are Bad goes on and on -- the key element of intersectionality is that it always intersects with ugly prejudices against groups that leftists see as insufficiently supportive of their sick ideology.​


All bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Foreign Collusion, Proven: Pro-Jeb-Bush, NeverTrump PAC "Right to Rise" Took $1.3 Million Illegally from State-Owned Chinese Government Corporation



> Mao Tse DONE!!!
> 
> Establishment GOP consultant and prominent NeverTrumper Mike Murphy led Right to Rise, the PAC that illegally took $1.3 million from state-owned Chinese gov't corporation. This is Murphy's profile photo. #Projection https://t.co/Y8TmgcX7Sh pic.twitter.com/dCTAsQ9GaA
> — Jordan Schachtel (@JordanSchachtel) March 11, 2019​


The iron...


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant



> "From what I've been able to tell from news reports, here is the Democrats' 2020 campaign platform in a nutshell: 'We hate you, we *really* hate Jews, we hate babies, we hate America, and we want you to starve. Now give us all your guns.'"


Purdy much what I've been getting, too. Good luck winning Flyover Country with that platform.

Now, scroll down a couple memes (the socialism one is hilarious) to the TuCa Tweet. Related:

Media Matters Shrieks About Tucker Carlson Using "Naughty" Language on Decade-Old Shockjock Radio Show;
_Tucker Carlson Says He Won't Be Apologizing_



> By the way: It's not just Media Matters pushing this hit.
> 
> It's Pierre Omidyar operative/Bulwark towel-boy Jim Swift. And Head Cuck Bill Kristol. They're pimping this story on Twitter and Conserving so much Conservatism you just can't even believe it.
> 
> I saw someone say: Jim Swift and Bill Kristol have decided the free speech hill to die on is an abortion-crazy leftist's twitter attacks on pro-lifers, second-amendment defenders, and cancer patients -- but not this Tucker Carlson Class Traitor.
> 
> Here's the Media Matters tweet containing Tucker's *shocking* language, and here's a USAToday article dutifully carrying water for MMFA.


----------



## Macfury

Bill Kristol became a world class globalist over a decade ago. Absolutely punchable.


----------



## CubaMark

*Ilhan Omar* @IlhanMN

Trump promised over and over again not to cut Medicaid and Medicare.

So what does his latest budget do?


Cuts Medicare by $845 billion.
Cuts Medicaid by $241 billion.
(Twitter)​
*Related:* 6 Times Donald Trump Promised Not to Cut Medicare (YouTube)


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Bill Kristol became a world class globalist over a decade ago. Absolutely punchable.


<snort> You owe me a keyboard...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Steny Hoyer, the House Majority Leader, Slams The Three Little Antisemitic Pigs Cortez, Tlaib, and Omar: "We've Got 62 New Members, Not Three"



> Hoyer slams Tlaib, Omar, Ocasio-Cortez when asked about Dems who would still like to push for impeachment, despite Pelosi saying she opposes impeachment. Hoyer: “We’ve got 62 new (Democratic) members. Not three”
> — Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) March 11, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Ummm...Brain dead?

Rep. Tlaib Botches Impeachment Explanation: ‘Oh, My God, What’s the Expression?’



> Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) struggled to find the right words on Wednesday, when she tried to reassure supporters that she’ll soon begin efforts to impeach President Donald Trump.
> 
> Tlaib gathered with fellow protesters outside of the office of House Speaker Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), where she blanked out while trying to remember how impeachment works:


I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned, _progressive thinker_...


----------



## FeXL

AOC Hit With Ethics Complaint Alleging Use of House Resources for Political Purposes



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y) has been hit with an ethics complaint alleging that the freshman Democrat improperly used House resources for political purposes in violation of ethics rules.
> 
> The Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust (FACT), a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group, filed the complaint Thursday to the U.S. House of Representative's Office of Congressional Ethics requesting that the committee investigate Ocasio-Cortez's use of official resources on her social media accounts.
> 
> "In the first two weeks of February 2019, Ocasio- Cortez posted numerous videos of official House floor and committee proceedings on her political Twitter and Instagram accounts," the complaint reads. "Her posts prominently displayed both official House photographs and video footage, on which she commented and instructed viewers to watch the videos."


You go, girl! Rules are for all the little people.


----------



## Macfury

When was that budget passed, CM?



CubaMark said:


> *Ilhan Omar* @IlhanMN
> 
> Trump promised over and over again not to cut Medicaid and Medicare.
> 
> So what does his latest budget do?
> 
> 
> Cuts Medicare by $845 billion.
> Cuts Medicaid by $241 billion.
> (Twitter)​
> *Related:* 6 Times Donald Trump Promised Not to Cut Medicare (YouTube)


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> When was that budget passed, CM?


It hasn't, and likely won't. But that's not the point. The point is that your Cheetoh-flavoured Messiah, in his proposed budget, is contradicting his stated position on Medicare & Medicaid funding (while also intending to increase the USA's military budget by $34-billion, which the military hasn't requested).

Or is it your position that we shouldn't believe anything that Trump says, given his historical record of not saying anything that makes sense / can't remember what he said a few minutes ago and contradicts himself frequently? :lmao:

Trump Budget Would Slash Medicaid by $1.1 Trillion (TruthDig)


----------



## Macfury

It's a starting point for budget negotiations. Wait until next year before you break that sad violin from your well-worn case.



CubaMark said:


> It hasn't, and likely won't. But that's not the point. The point is that your Cheetoh-flavoured Messiah, in his proposed budget, is contradicting his stated position on Medicare & Medicaid funding (while also intending to increase the USA's military budget by $34-billion, which the military hasn't requested).
> 
> Or is it your position that we shouldn't believe anything that Trump says, given his historical record of not saying anything that makes sense / can't remember what he said a few minutes ago and contradicts himself frequently? :lmao:
> 
> Trump Budget Would Slash Medicaid by $1.1 Trillion (TruthDig)


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Why, after 8 years of Budgetless Barry, are you suddenly _so_ concerned about the contents of a budget?

And why, after nearly a decade of broken promises from Barry, are you suddenly _so_ concerned about broken political promises?



CubaMark said:


> Or is it your position...)


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Why, after 8 years of Budgetless Barry, are you suddenly _so_ concerned about the contents of a budget?
> 
> And why, after nearly a decade of broken promises from Barry, are you suddenly _so_ concerned about broken political promises?


He hated Obama equally--he just never said a word about it. He'll also maintain a respectful silence for any other Democrat currently in office.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> He hated Obama equally--he just never said a word about it. He'll also maintain a respectful silence for any other Democrat currently in office.


Y'all may want to go in now for your annual dementia exam... it's catching up with you.

The fact that you can't remember my criticisms of Obama, et al., isn't my problem. The repetitive restating of one's displeasure with people of other political persuasions may help you lot remember the things that get your danders up, but I'm perfectly capable of remembering my positions on issues.

Also: this ignore list feature is simply beautiful. It's been about a week now, and ehMac is a much more tolerable place to visit....


----------



## Macfury

You may recall your positions on issues, but under the eight years of Obama, you were pretty much limited here to the occasional diatribe on U.S. gun laws. Calling Obama "not a socialist" is probably the biggest insult you lobbed his way.



CubaMark said:


> Y'all may want to go in now for your annual dementia exam... it's catching up with you.
> 
> The fact that you can't remember my criticisms of Obama, et al., isn't my problem. The repetitive restating of one's displeasure with people of other political persuasions may help you lot remember the things that get your danders up, but I'm perfectly capable of remembering my positions on issues.


An even greater feature. If you "ignore" everyone, EhMac will transform into a socialist blog!



CubaMark said:


> Also: this ignore list feature is simply beautiful. It's been about a week now, and ehMac is a much more tolerable place to visit....


----------



## FeXL

Typical Prog: Easier to hide from the issues than actually deal with reality. "If I can't see you, you're not there. LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!"

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

I guess it's an easy way to ignore all those pointed, uncomfortable, telling questions that make you look like the south end of a northbound skunk when your narrative collapses.

Coward...



CubaMark said:


> Also: this ignore list feature is simply beautiful.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> An even greater feature. If you "ignore" everyone, EhMac will transform into a socialist blog!


Ah, Utopia! :clap:


----------



## FeXL

Brutal.

Feds Pay Millions for Lobster Tail, Booze, Toys in End of Year Spending Binge



> Federal agencies billed taxpayers millions for lobster tail, alcohol, standing desks, golf carts, and more frivolous expenditures before budgets ran out at the end of the fiscal year.
> 
> A new analysis released by OpenTheBooks.com found 66 agencies spent $97 billion last September, the final month of fiscal year 2018. The end of the year taxpayer-funded spending spree included contracts with Coors, millions on iPhones, furniture, and CrossFit equipment.
> 
> "In the final month of the fiscal year, federal agencies scramble to spend what's left in their annual budget," OpenTheBooks.com said. "Agencies worry spending less than their budget allows might prompt Congress to appropriate less money in the next fiscal year. To avoid this, federal agencies choose to embark on an annual shopping spree rather than admit they can operate on less."
> 
> Resulting government expenditures included $4.6 million on lobster tail and crab; $673,471 on golf carts; $1.7 million on pianos, tubas, and trombones; $9.8 million on workout and recreation equipment; and $7.7 million iPhones and iPads.
> 
> A Wexford Leather club chair cost taxpayers $9,241. The government spent $293,245 on rib eye, top sirloin, and flank steak.


This $h!t just makes me see red. tptptptp


----------



## FeXL

Failure to Launch – Pelosi and Schiff Announce They are Dropping Impeachment Plan…



> Remember: “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” ~ Mike Tyson
> 
> The exploitation of Michael Cohen toward the launch of Speaker Pelosi’s impeachment effort backfired bigly. Not enough people found Cohen credible; and because of the ridiculous way the entire staged performance was carried out by Democrats, and the their media allies, most people saw right through the politicization of it. The plan just failed.
> 
> Additionally, some politicians like Jim Jordan, Jody Hice and Mark Meadows started calling out the blatant construct behind Pelosi’s impeachment plan. HPSCI Chairman Adam Schiff sending his staff to New York four times to prep Michael Cohen before the hearings – was only made more ridiculous by Chairman Schiff trying to deny they coached Cohen. Schiff looks like a doofus.


Related:

Nancy Pelosi just admitted that Democrats have nothing on Trump



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Monday that she’s against impeaching President Trump “unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan.” Which is exactly the point — there isn’t.
> 
> The speaker is surely up to speed on what evidence Democrats actually have against Trump and has a fair sense of what Special Counsel Bob Mueller’s report will say. And she recognizes that it’s nothing that will persuade anyone who hasn’t wanted Trump ousted since Election Day 2016.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Oh, I hope that crow is ice-cold...


----------



## FeXL

The illegal immigrant health crisis by itself is enough reason to shut down border migration



> On Tuesday, Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan announced the building of a new facility to deal with the health crisis of those coming over the border and surrendering themselves to agents. A whopping 31,000 medical referrals were made for illegal aliens this year, straining our hospitals and local county emergency medical personnel, up from 12,000 last year.


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* Trump "likes" tweet connecting massage parlor owner to Mar-a-lago


----------



## Macfury

"Sex pimp lady"?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> "Sex pimp lady"?


Hey! It was on MJ, so it's Prog gospel. Don't you be mocking The Bigot now...


----------



## FeXL

I'm liking the sound of this!

Wall Street Journal: Trump May Put Universities On the Hook for the Loans Its Students Take Out, and Incentivize Them To Make Sure Their Students Have Some Chance of Paying Back These Massive Sums



> I'm pretty sure this is Authoritarian, Fascist, and Racist, because it imperils the left's phony-baloney jobs.
> 
> The White House is weighing a measure that would require colleges and universities to take a financial stake in their students' ability to repay government loans, an effort that could squeeze loan availability to students and reduce defaults.
> 
> For several months, Trump administration officials have been discussing enacting such a mechanism or making a push for one in Congress as part of a broader effort to combat rising college costs.
> 
> In the administration's budget proposal released Monday, officials made brief mention of a "request to create an educational finance system that requires postsecondary institutions that accept taxpayer funds to have skin in the game through a student loan risk-sharing program."
> 
> Such a proposal could be included in a coming executive order addressing higher education, several officials said...
> 
> The order the White House is preparing, expected in coming weeks and lead by the president’s daughter Ivanka Trump, will likely touch on several hot-button issues in higher education, including a possible provision tying federal research dollars to rules about free speech on campuses, these people said.​
> The executive order would be signed with an ink produced by crushing up Viagra tablets and mixing them with panther blood and cobra venom.


Making these SJW Snowflake factories responsible for the garbage (take that either way) they're churning out?

Damn straight...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hey! It was on MJ, so it's Prog gospel. Don't you be mocking The Bigot now...


Apparently this woman sells access to the US "Ministry of Commerce." Clearly, CM vetted this with his usual vigour.


----------



## Beej

I thought the budget noise may mean an actual fiscally conservative budget was proposed.

Summary tables start on page 107.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/budget-fy2020.pdf

Very large deficits, and a key social program such as medicaid growing at 3%+ per year after one year of cost control. Our NDP and Liberal parties have implemented more "austerity" than this proposal to maybe think about restraining spending.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well. Idn't _that_ interestin'?

Transcripts from Lisa Page Testimony Suggest Brennan Knew about Steele Dossier Before FBI



> One key finding from Page's testimony indicates that former CIA Director John Brennan was involved with the Steele dossier before the FBI was.
> 
> Lisa Page insisted that the FBI investigative unit didn't know about the Steele dossier until mid-September 2016. However, Brennan was aware of the dirty dossier in early August 2016, and used the unverified information to brief former Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.). On August 29, Reid asked the FBI to "investigate evidence suggesting that Russia may try to manipulate voting results in November."


Related:

Obama DOJ Told FBI Not To Charge Hillary, Lisa Page Reveals What The 'Insurance Policy' Was



> One of the biggest revelations was that Page, who was having an affair with then-FBI agent Peter Strzok, said that the infamous "insurance policy" text message was referring to the Russia investigation.


Related, too:

Lisa Page Testimony May Have Put Obama AG Loretta Lynch In The Crosshairs



> Republican Georgia Rep. Doug Collins released the private testimony of former FBI lawyer Lisa Page, but it’s former Attorney General Loretta Lynch who may feel the sting.
> 
> According to Page’s testimony, which was made public on Tuesday, the FBI considered charging former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton with gross negligence under 18 U.S. Code § 793 for her alleged handling of classified information. (RELATED: Doug Collins Releases Ex-FBI Lawyer Lisa Page’s Interview Transcripts)
> 
> NEW: Lisa Page’s congressional testimony reveals that the FBI was considering charging Hillary Clinton under the Espionage Act for “gross negligence” — until the DOJ flat-out told them “No.”https://t.co/c6t7UyttzB
> 
> — Jerry Dunleavy (@JerryDunleavy) March 12, 2019​
> “We had multiple conversations with the Justice Department about bringing a gross negligence charge,” Page told Republican Texas Rep. John Ratcliffe. “And that’s, as I said, the advice that we got from the Department was that they did not think — *that it was constitutionally vague and not sustainable*.”


Bold mine.

Yeah, that's one way to put it.


----------



## SINC

So now we know?

Lisa Page: Obama DOJ Ordered FBI Not to Prosecute Hillary Clinton

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...ordered-fbi-not-to-prosecute-hillary-clinton/


----------



## FeXL

Related:

Lisa Page: The DOJ Forbade Us From Bringing a Negligent Release of Classified Information Charge Against Hillary Clinton



> Yes, the fix was in.
> 
> Say, anyone remember when Loretta Lynch claimed she was recusing herself from this case due to her speaking with Bill Clinton furtively on an airport tarmac?
> 
> Well actually she didn't recuse herself -- she said she would do as the FBI recommended. But she intended the media to sell that as a recusal, and the media so sold it.
> 
> Turns out, the DOJ did not defer to the FBI at all.


----------



## FeXL

San Jose Police Chief: The Suspected Murderer of an American Woman Was Shielded From Deportation by Sanctuary Policies Six Times



> Boy, the left's (including Bill Kristol's) plan of replacing Noncompliant Americans with more compliant foreign replacements will happen at an even faster tempo if the replacements also murder us.
> 
> Monday, San Jose police arrested 24-year-old Carlos Eduardo Arevalo Carranza for the murder of 59-year-old Bambi Larson. Police believe Carranza stalked the victim before breaking into her home and stabbing her to death. Her body was discovered by her son and a co-worker after she didn’t show up for work....
> 
> This is far from the first time Carranza has been arrested.... [Remorseless record of criminality omitted.]
> 
> If you've lost count, that’s 10 arrests after he was deported. Six of those times, ICE asked the police to hold Carranza so they could pick up this homeless drug addict rather than have him be released back onto the streets. *But according to Chief Garcia, police ignored those detainer requests because of sanctuary policies.* "Let me be clear, we are here to protect and embrace our otherwise law-abiding undocumented residents. We are not here, nor should we be here, to shield admitted gangsters or violent criminals regardless of immigration status," Garcia
> said.


----------



## FeXL

No Russkies?

Womp, Womp: Mueller Tells Judge in Michael Flynn Case That He Has Fully Cooperated And His Cooperation is "Complete," and Yet -- No Mention of Any "Collusion" With Russia or Anyone Else



> As Dennis Finch would say: Crank it, spank it, smack it on the bing-bong!
> 
> ...
> 
> Meanwhile, Adam Schiff cautions against impeachment, stating that he would need to "see very graphic evidence" before moving forward with such a ridiculous move.
> 
> Bear in mind, this is the guy who has been telling us he's seen _clear and convincing evidence of both collusion and obstruction for nigh on three years._
> 
> Now he says he'd have _to see_ -- implicit future tense -- such evidence before supporting impeachment.


Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Fodder Queen.

Ocasio-Cortez Melts Down Amid Mockery Of Her Wells Fargo Questions



> During a House Financial Services Committee meeting hosted by Chairwoman Maxine Waters on Tuesday, democratic socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY) attempted to take down Wells Fargo CEO Timothy Sloan on the issue of climate change — and ended up inspiring widespread backlash for her non sequitur questions. Amid the wave of criticism for her performance at the hearing, the freshman representative and former bartender issued a series of tweets pushing back against those poking holes in her global warming logic.


----------



## FeXL

Some perspective on those horrible, "OrangeManBad" ‘Medicare cuts’.

There’s nothing cruel about Trump’s ‘Medicare cuts’ 



> But fact is, Trump’s plan is far less radical than portrayed.
> 
> For starters, while the proposed reductions sound big, they aren’t. Actually, they are far less than what is needed to bring Medicare back into balance. Over the next 10 years, Medicare is projected to spend more than $10.2 trillion, meaning the president’s proposed cuts amount to less than 9 percent of the entitlement’s projected expenditures.


----------



## FeXL

12 Republicans Cross the Aisle to Vote with the Democrats for Open Borders; Trump Promises Veto



> Trump announced his veto, which means they'll vote again and will have to get a 2/3rds majority in both houses to override:
> 
> VETO!
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 14, 2019​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> 12 Republicans Cross the Aisle to Vote with the Democrats for Open Borders; Trump Promises Veto


Wicker
Rubio
Portman
Collins
Murkowski
Blount
Alexander
Toomey
Romney
Paul
Moran
Lee 

Good to have these bums outing themselves. I only respect Rand Paul among them, because his vote is at least reasoned along constitutional lines. The others are "open borders" creeps.


----------



## FeXL

Reporter Asks Pelosi What Beto O'Rourke Has Accomplished. She Can't Answer.



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi struggled to name a single accomplishment that former Rep. Beto O'Rourke (D-TX) had while he was in the House of Representatives when she was asked by a reporter on Thursday during a press conference.


----------



## FeXL

Bro-Fo, anti-semite Omar too radical for the Progs?

Minnesota Democrat Leaders Reportedly Looking for Primary Challenger Against Ilhan Omar



> A few Democrat freshman representatives have caused problems for the party, which has led to whispers among Democrat leaders within those respective states to find primary challengers.
> 
> First it was New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Now Minnesota Democrat leaders have begun to look for a primary challenger against Re. Ilhan Omar.
> 
> Omar has caused headache after headache for the Democrats since she came into office in January, mainly with her anti-Semitic remarks at townhalls and on Twitter.


Related:

Omar and the Congressional Black Caucus’ Anti-Semitism Problem



> "I want to thank Minister Farrakhan for offering up a number of precepts that we ought to adhere to,” Rep. James Clyburn said, at an event featuring the anti-Semitic hate group leader.
> 
> Eight years later, to the month, Clyburn, now the House Majority Whip, defended Rep. Omar’s anti-Semitism. “There are people who tell me, ‘Well, my parents are Holocaust survivors.’ ‘My parents did this.’ It’s more personal with her," he argued, dismissing the concerns of Jewish legislators.


----------



## FeXL

They still won't get it...

Levin explains Trump’s national emergency order ‘so even slow-learning senators’ can understand



> “If the 1976 National Emergencies Act is unconstitutional, then multiple presidents have violated the Constitution, and Congress has done nothing and the courts have done nothing,” Levin said. “If the movement of funds under the Military Construction Codification Act of 1982 is unconstitutional, a dictatorial act, then past presidents have been dictators. But the fact of the matter is this is far more acceptable, as a constitutional matter, than the existence of these departments and agencies in the first place.”


----------



## FeXL

Ocasio-Cortez Has Ties To A Dark Money Group

The hook:



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has ties with a dark money group that trains progressive organizers on how to lead grassroots political campaigns across the country.
> 
> The group, Organize for Justice, is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization, meaning it can raise unlimited sums of money without having to disclose the identity of its donors to the public.


The punchline:



> Ocasio-Cortez has frequently decried the use of dark money in politics. During her primary campaign, she said dark money was an “enemy to democracy” and that it poses a “very real danger” of silencing grassroots candidates.


----------



## FeXL

The Creepiest Part of the Lisa Page Transcript



> Most media coverage of the newly-released transcript of Lisa Page’s testimony before the House Judiciary Committee focuses on questions that have long since been answered: We already knew there was bias against Donald Trump throughout the DOJ and FBI. It was long ago established that they never possessed any credible evidence of collusion involving Trump’s campaign and Russia. We already knew the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s crimes was a charade. The real news is how fearful the denizens of the DOJ and FBI were of incurring Clinton’s wrath: This is captured in the following warning from Page to Peter Strzok:
> 
> One more thing: She might be our next President. The last thing you need is us going in there [to Clinton’s interview] loaded for bear. You think she’s going to remember or care that it was more DOJ than FBI?​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

Lisa Page: ‘If I Had This to Do Over Again, I Wouldn’t Write This Sh** Down’



> “This has been obviously the worst year of my life,” Lisa Page said in her closed-door testimony before a joint hearing of the House Judiciary and Oversight Committees last July.
> 
> “And certainly, if I had this to do over again, I wouldn’t write this **** down in my personal – in a work-related text message. But we have not been treated fairly,” she said.
> 
> Ranking member Doug Collins (R-Ga.) released the entire transcript of Page’s testimony on Tuesday, and much of that testimony focused on the text messages Page exchanged with Peter Strzok on her FBI-issued cell phone.


----------



## FeXL

_Very_ presidential...

‘Wax My Ass, Scrub My Balls’ — This Beto O’Rourke Poem From 1988 Is Beyond Belief



> Beto O’Rourke’s recently unearthed membership in the hacking group “Cult of the Dead Cow” may not have included the “edgiest sorts of hacking activity,” but it did, apparently, include writing murder fantasies and exceptionally bad poetry.
> 
> Writing under the now-exposed pseudonym “Psychedelic Warlord,” a teen-aged O’Rourke appears to be the author of a poem titled “The Song of the Cow,” published in 1988 by “cDc (Cult of the Dead Cow) communications.”
> 
> “I need a butt-shine,” the poem begins … and it really all just goes downhill from there:


XX)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> _Very_ presidential...
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Wax My Ass, Scrub My Balls’ — This Beto O’Rourke Poem From 1988 Is Beyond Belief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XX)




No more presidential than having sex with a porn star and a playmate while your wife is home raising the kid. And Beto WAS a teenager at the time of his indiscretion, whole Trump was a grown man.


----------



## FeXL

Yet the left screamed Blue Murder about Trump. Beto? Crickets.

And the left screamed Blue Murder about Kavanaugh. Here? Nada.

And the left said zip about using an intern as a humidor in the Oval Office.

Why? 'Cause Progs have this inborn mental deficiency called "double standards". AKA, "hypocrisy", "rules are for the little people" and "do as we say, not as we do".



Freddie_Biff said:


> No more presidential than having sex with a porn star and a playmate while your wife is home raising the kid.


Right. And yet the compassionate, intellectual left thinks that people of a similar age as this obviously blatant idiot should be able to _vote_.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And Beto WAS a teenager at the time of his indiscretion, whole Trump was a grown man.


----------



## Macfury

Yep, one guy is oversexed--and the other fantasizes about killing children. Freddie's got this!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Freddie's got this!


Down pat.


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> In hindsight, quite a trick.
> 
> PRIVATELY AG Lynch (DOJ) tells FBI she will not permit Clinton charges based on "gross negligence".
> 
> Then PUBLICLY Lynch says she will accept FBI recommendation.
> 
> Then Comey (FBI) says "no reasonable prosecution"
> 
> And that was how it was done. pic.twitter.com/Oh6RB0ebZO
> 
> — TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) March 15, 2019​
> More here. The damning proof of innocence that FBI likely withheld in Russian probe


Related:

Bombshell: Strzok Told Congress Robert Mueller Never Asked Him About Anti-Trump Texts



> On Thursday morning, Rep. Doug Collins (R-Ga.) published a transcript of a June 2018 interview FBI Agent Peter Strzok gave to members of Congress before he was fired in August 2018 over anti-Trump texts between him and his lover, Lisa Page. Strzok had worked on three important investigations: the FBI probe into Hillary Clinton's emails, the FBI investigation into possible Trump-Russia collusion, and the Trump-Russia probe headed by special counsel Robert Mueller.
> 
> After the anti-Trump texts came to light, Mueller booted Strzok from the special counsel probe, but according to the FBI agent's testimony, Mueller's team never asked him whether the anti-Trump bias revealed in his text messages impacted his investigation of alleged collusion between Donald Trump's campaign and Russia.
> 
> In the June 2018 hearing, Strzok repeated over and over that Mueller's team never asked him about the anti-Trump bias in the texts or whether that bias impacted his work. This news seems particularly damning since it suggests the special counsel's team did not care whether Strzok's work was colored by anti-Trump bias.


Related, too:

LOL: Mueller's Pit Bull Leaving Office, and Yet Trump Remains Unindicted



> The flow of Democrat attack dogs out of Mueller's office suggests a prosecution tidying up and winding down.
> 
> Genius intelligence analyst John Brennan, who did such a great job on 9/11, predicted that Mueller would announce indictments this past week (March 8).
> 
> Another Brennan Triumph!


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

The Fentanyl Failure



> In May 2016, a group of national health experts issued an urgent plea in a private letter to high-level officials in the Obama administration. Thousands of people were dying from overdoses of fentanyl — the deadliest drug to ever hit U.S. streets — and the administration needed to take immediate action. The epidemic had been escalating for three years.
> 
> The 11 experts pressed the officials to declare fentanyl a national “public health emergency” that would put a laserlike focus on combating the emerging epidemic and warn the country about the threat, according to a copy of the letter.
> 
> “The fentanyl crisis represents an extraordinary public health challenge — and requires an extraordinary public health response,” the experts wrote to six administration officials, including the nation’s “drug czar” and the chief of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
> 
> *The administration considered the request but did not act on it.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

YESSSSSSS!

He’s Baaaaack!

From the comments:



> Hahaha. Going to be a sight to behold watching the lefties and far lefties eviscerate each other. Occasional Cortex and the Jihadist are going to put this groper asshole through Hell.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Mogadishu, Minnesota



> When it was noted that the carry-on bags of multiple airline passengers traveling from Minneapolis to Somalia contained millions of dollars in cash, on a regular basis, law enforcement was naturally curious to know where the money came from and where it was going. It soon emerged that millions of taxpayer dollars, and possibly much more, had been stolen through a massive scam of Minnesota’s social-services sector, specifically through fraudulent daycare claims. To make matters worse, the money appears to have wound up in areas of Somalia controlled by al-Shabab, the Islamic jihadist group responsible for numerous terrorist outrages.
> 
> Starting in the 1990s, the State Department directed thousands of refugees from Somalia’s civil war to Minnesota, which is now home to the largest population of Somalis outside Somalia itself. As the Washington Times noted in 2015, in Minnesota, these refugees “can take advantage of some of America’s most generous welfare and charity programs.” Professor Ahmed Samatar of Macalester College in St. Paul observed, “Minnesota is exceptional in so many ways but it’s the closest thing in the United States to a true social democratic state.” *A high-trust, traditionally homogenous community with a deep civil society marked by thrift, industriousness, and openness, Minnesota seemed like the ideal place to locate an indigent Somali population now estimated at 100,000.*


Bold mine.

The iron? It is...

Somali Woman Charged With Terrorizing North Dakota Neighborhood Previously Tied to Human Sex Trafficking Case



> "I feel like I'm a Muslim woman who's being attacked because I am a Muslim woman living in Grand Forks," she told reporter Joshua Peguero. “I turned myself in because I know I didn't commit the crime. I'm innocent and I know I can prove it."
> 
> But Peguero discovered through court records that Ahmed has been charged in a string of incidents in Iowa, North Dakota, and Minnesota, including third degree assault and giving a false name to a police officer. On September 11 of last year, Ahmed was charged with a Class A misdemeanor for violating a disorderly conduct restraining order.
> 
> Ahmed was also charged as part of a massive 2010 federal case of human sex trafficking involving three connected Somali gangs -- the Somali Outlaws, the Somali Mafia, and the Lady Outlaws -- who ran a prostitution ring in Minnesota, Tennessee, and Ohio. Twenty-nine individuals were charged in the original federal case. According to the FBI, the prostitution ring trafficked girls as young as 13 from Minnesota to Nashville and Columbus.


Having some difficulty spotting her halo...


----------



## FeXL

Well, let's talk Beto the Poet s'more.

Reuters Admits They Sat On Bombshell Beto O'Rourke Story For 2 Years



> Reuters reported late on Friday night that their reporter who broke the story about Democrat Beto O'Rourke belonging to a hacker group had the story for two years and agreed to sit on it until after O'Rourke's Senate race against Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX).


'Course! Can't have the _compassionate, intellectual, progressive thinker_ narrative fractured by cute little poems by teenagers fantasizing about running over children & writings calling women sluts.

Go Beto! [Updated Hilariously: “I Need a Butt Shine”]



> The Democrats have a remarkable number of bad presidential candidates, but I think my favorite might be Beto O’Rourke. His campaign is off to, shall we say, a rocky start. Jim Geraghty puts working-class hero Beto in context:
> 
> *If Beto had an R after his name instead of a D, you’d hear he was boarding-school-attending judge’s son who dodged serious charges for the DUI & burglary, used eminent domain to gentrify poor Latino neighborhoods & married into a billionaire’s family.* https://t.co/s46ildgFnB pic.twitter.com/mG1TpXjVqw
> 
> — Jim Geraghty (@jimgeraghty) March 14, 2019​


Yeah, my bold.

Precisely.

Caution: Link to MotherCorpse inside.

Things You’re Gonna See On The CBC

From the comments:



> A racist inherently bigoted far left State propaganda organization doing what a racist inherently bigoted far left State propaganda organization does best, push their racist inherently bigoted State sponsored far left ideology down the throats of the those that are forced by the State to fund the States racist inherently bigoted far left propaganda organization.


Pretty much sums it up.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Gives GM Ultimatum: Reopen Closed Lordstown, Ohio, Plant



> President Donald Trump this weekend called out multinational corporation General Motors (GM) for closing its first of four U.S. assembly plants it expects to shutter this year, urging GM CEO Mary Barra to quickly reopen the plant.
> 
> Trump called out the automaker and Barra for laying off thousands of American workers and the recent closing of the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant.
> 
> This year, GM announced it would stop production at four of its U.S. plants, including Detroit-Hamtramck and Warren Transmission in Michigan, Lordstown Assembly in Ohio, and Baltimore Operations in Maryland. *Trump initially blasted the decision, saying, “This country has done a lot for General Motors. They better get back to Ohio and soon.”*


Bold mine.

I don't know what kind of real power Trump has here, & whether or not he should actually wield it. That said, I agree entirely with his observation.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Trump Gives GM Ultimatum: Reopen Closed Lordstown, Ohio, Plant
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> I don't know what kind of real power Trump has here, & whether or not he should actually wield it. That said, I agree entirely with his observation.


Being rescued by taxpayers means that Trump has some moral rights to tell GM what to do.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Being rescued by taxpayers means that Trump has some moral rights to tell GM what to do.


Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at, as well.

Of course I would have preferred that they had not received the taxpayer funded bailout package in the first place but seeing as they did...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at, as well.
> 
> Of course I would have preferred that they had not received the taxpayer funded bailout package in the first place but seeing as they did...


Exactly. Government should not place itself in the position where it hands out the favours that give it moral leverage.


----------



## FeXL

How's about one more on Poem Boy?

Beto O'Rourke's Gaffetastic Day



> Not ready for prime time?
> 
> Yesterday was a day that Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke may want to forget. His first swing through Iowa as an official candidate was marred by a "joke" about his wife that drew heavy criticism and the revelation by Reuters of his membership in a hacker group as a teenager where he posted a story about kids getting run over by a car on the group's message board.
> 
> O'Rourke was on the defensive most of the day, apologizing profusely for saying his wife Amy raised their three kids “sometimes with my help.”


More:



> A 15-year-old daydreaming about a "moneyless society" is pretty common. But "sweet visions filling my head" after running over a couple of "happy happy" kids with his car is definitely not common. I have to ask it: what do you think the reaction would have been if a Republican candidate had written that? Every amateur Democratic mental health professional would declare the candidate unfit for office.
> 
> But for Beto? His apology suffices:
> 
> “I’m mortified to read it now, incredibly embarrassed, but I have to take ownership of my words,” the Democratic presidential candidate said during a taping of the “Political Party Live” podcast in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. “Whatever my intention was as a teenager doesn’t matter, I have to look long and hard at my actions, at the language I have used, and I have to constantly try to do better.”​
> If only Republicans had it so easy.


Screw you, "Beto"...


----------



## FeXL

And more on anti-semitic Bro-Fo!

We Cannot Bury Our Heads in the Sand about Ilhan Omar



> Rep. Ilhan Omar from Minnesota poses an interesting case study in American cultural or civilizational consciousness. She is the first congressional representative to wear a scarf around her head, and that scarf is for some a symbol of the breadth and depth of our acceptance of others. For others, it is a symbol of alienation and rejection of the America she claims — simply by holding office — to represent. To those who see her this way, the hijab or head covering is seen as a hostile _schmata_ (rag) whereby she is not merely carrying on one of her subculture's customs, but, in essence, giving the finger to the country she now would participate in governing.


----------



## FeXL

How's about we do like JJ Sefton noted at AoS this morning? Just like insurance, move the voting age to 26...

Pelosi says she backs lowering voting age to 16



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) voiced her support on Thursday for lowering the federal voting age to 16, telling reporters during a press conference that doing so would be a boon to voter engagement in the U.S.
> 
> Pelosi said Thursday that lowering the voting age would drive interest in politics among younger Americans who are learning about the subject in high school. The Speaker said that changing the voting age to 16 would help drive a higher level of voter awareness and turnout.
> 
> "I myself have always been for lowering the voting age to 16," Pelosi said. "*I think it's really important to capture kids when they're in high school*, when they're interested in all of this, when they're learning about government, to be able to vote."


Bold mine.

*D'oh!* I jes luvs it when these little snippets of honesty leak past the Prog narrative...


----------



## FeXL

SOOOOOUUUUIIIIEEEEE!!!

Poll: In Midwestern States, Trump Leads a Generic Democrat Candidate 46% to 40%



> The number doesn't reflect his standing in any one particular state, but in the region overall.
> 
> Decent numbers, though.
> 
> * There's a reason why President Trump is becoming more popular in important Midwestern battleground states like Pennsylvania: Voters don't want to lose the ongoing economic renaissance that is transforming their lives. *​


Bold mine.

Ya think?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Being rescued by taxpayers means that Trump has some moral rights to tell GM what to do.


You guys are _hilarious_.

Talking about "moral rights" when it comes to American businesses. What are you, raging socialists? hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! :lmao:

The government would have had actual legal rights to tell GM, et al., what to do, if they had remained shareholders after the bailout, but instead they went and sold their shares. Somebody should'a advised 'em to _go long!_ :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

We both said that the government should have let GM go under. They lost money on the deal for the US taxpayer and should never have been shareholders.

We are not talking about legal rights.

The article you linked to agrees that the government should have let GM go bankrupt.





CubaMark said:


> You guys are _hilarious_.
> 
> Talking about "moral rights" when it comes to American businesses. What are you, raging socialists? hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! :lmao:
> 
> The government would have had actual legal rights to tell GM, et al., what to do, if they had remained shareholders after the bailout, but instead they went and sold their shares. Somebody should'a advised 'em to _go long!_ :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The article you linked to agrees that the government should have let GM go bankrupt.


<WHOOOSH...>

Doncha jes' luv it when The Bigot links an article that defeats his own argument? I wonder if they teach that in journalism school or sociology?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> <WHOOOSH...>
> 
> Doncha jes' luv it when The Bigot links an article that defeats his own argument? I wonder if they teach that in journalism school or sociology?
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:



I don't think he reads the articles he links. Otherwise he would never post some of those sad "green victory" articles in the Alternative Energy thread.


----------



## CubaMark

Hey! Nice deviation from the issue. 3 points for attempted deflection!

I was making no comment on the bailout. I was making comment specifically on the "rights" of the US Gov't to tell GM what to do- as a shareholder, it would have a say; as a non-shareholder, it has no input into the decisions of the company. 

Geez... talk about <WHOOOSH> !!!! :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

As a company that received the largesse of the American taxpayer, Trump has the moral authority to tell GM it should continue to hire Americans--not the legal authority to compel it to do so. It should never have the legal authority to compel such a decision, because it should never be the shareholder in a private business. What part of this is difficult for you to understand?



CubaMark said:


> Hey! Nice deviation from the issue. 3 points for attempted deflection!
> 
> I was making no comment on the bailout. I was making comment specifically on the "rights" of the US Gov't to tell GM what to do- as a shareholder, it would have a say; as a non-shareholder, it has no input into the decisions of the company.
> 
> Geez... talk about <WHOOOSH> !!!! :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Back from Ignoreland, I see. Can't handle the silence? Thought not.

To the topic: once again, <WHOOOSH...>. You still don't get it, do you? XX)

I'd draw a picture but I don't speak Prog...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-blah, blah-blah


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> 
> 
> Back from Ignoreland, I see. Can't handle the silence? Thought not.
> 
> 
> 
> To the topic: once again, <WHOOOSH...>. You still don't get it, do you? XX)
> 
> 
> 
> I'd draw a picture but I don't speak Prog...




You act like such a child the way you respond.


----------



## Macfury

FOX has been losing its credibility as an alternative news network for some time now, but adding Paul Ryan to the board is really bad news:

https://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-fox-spinoff-20190319-story.html


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> FOX has been losing its credibility as an alternative news network for some time now, but adding Paul Ryan to the board is really bad news:
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-fox-spinoff-20190319-story.html


Faux News ranks right down there with the Clinton News Network. Neither should be considered reliable or accurate, both should be considered propaganda mouthpieces.


----------



## FeXL

Well, Freddie, yer certainly entitled yer plebeian opinion. Have at 'er.

Questions:

How do you feel about individuals who put you on ignore and go, "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!! I can't hear you" and then quietly sneak back into the fold because of the echo chamber?

Is that mature or childlike?

How do you feel about individuals who parrot Prog propaganda on social issues like Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz before the facts of the matter come out, then even after they're proven wrong they double down & refuse to either acknowledge the fact that they were wrong or apologize for their error?

Is that mature or childlike?

How do you feel about individuals who parrot Prog propaganda on technical issues such as Globull Warming, alternative energy & EV's, among others, despite the fact that empirical, measurable, evidence has thrown into sharp relief the flaws associated with each argument?

Is that mature or childlike?

How do you feel about individuals who not only admit to, but also display traits such as hypocrisy, double standards, do as I say not as I do, the rules are for the little people, etc.?

Is that mature or childlike?

Go ahead, Freddie. Criticize as much as you like. However, in the interest of illustrating that we aren't as immature as we accuse others of being, let's just make sure that we are even-handed in our criticism...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You act like such a child the way you respond.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bro-Fo, anti-semite Omar s'more!

Ilhan Omar Doesn’t Represent American Muslims, She Represents Islamists



> Omar accused American Jews of holding dual loyalty toward Israel. However, there was no word of her loyalty to Islamist supremacism and its gold star prize of advancing the Palestinian cause by decimating the Jewish state’s right to exist.
> 
> Omar dehumanized President Trump by saying he’s not really human. Now, Omar has survived a war zone. It takes a distorted mind to have received dehumanization at such scale, then dehumanize another.
> 
> Omar had trouble distinguishing between her opinion and a fact when discussing Sen. Lindsey Graham, whom she accused of being compromised with no evidence to support the smear.
> 
> Her high frequency of tweets and statements peddling anti-Semitic tropes led to congressional resolutions against anti-Semitism, which Omar made about Islamophobia. With the Council on American-Islamic Relations’ influence, the House resolution mutated from a specific issue to a catch-all that includes Islamophobia — a term that has no tangible meaning and has extended from initially meaning “fear of Islam” to being any perceived criticism toward Islam or Muslims (even if it comes from other Muslims).


Rep. Ilhan Omar's Constituents Are Unhappy With Her Rhetoric And They're Not Being Quiet About It



> Last week, several outlets (including The Daily Wire) reported that Democrats in Minnesota are considering recruiting a primary challenger to Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), even though she's only been in office three months. This week, CNN added to the rumor mill, reporting that Omar's constituents — even those who share her background and her faith — are uneasy with Omar's rhetoric and may be open to considering other options.


Member Of Progressive Group Makes Anti-Semitic Joke While Teaching House Democrats About Anti-Semitism: Report



> A member of a progressive anti-Trump organization, comprised of American Jews, used an anti-Semitic trope while meeting with Muslim and Jewish House Democrats to discuss recent allegations of anti-Semitism within the party, according to a report published Sunday.
> 
> Democratic Michigan Rep. Andy Levin invited Bend the Arc to moderate a discussion on religion and anti-Semitism between Muslim Democrats in the House and some of their Jewish Democratic colleagues, reported The Washington Post. In addition to Reps. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, America’s first two Muslim congresswomen, other freshman progressives were also invited, such as New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who has defended anti-Israel statements Omar made.


There is much to glean from all this but one of the things that stands out for me is if there are actually Dems out there who find Fruit Loops & Whackos like Omar & A Occasional Cortex fringe extremists, perhaps, just maybe, there is some hope for the left after all...


----------



## FeXL

Bummer, dude.

Bet The Donald would have more than 20 show up... :lmao:

De Blasio Attracts Crowd of Only 20 People in New Hampshire



> New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D), who continues to tease a potential 2020 presidential run, spoke to a group of only 20 people during a Sunday event in New Hampshire, the _New York Post_ reports.
> 
> De Blasio's crowd size ranks with some lower-tier candidates lagging in the already wide Democratic field. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D., N.Y.) has drawn similar numbers in the Granite State. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, on the other hand, attracted up to 300 people at recent events. Warren has been in fourth place among Democrats in New Hampshire primary polls.
> 
> De Blasio appeared in New Hampshire as part of a roundtable on mental health, along with 14 panel members, who comprised most of his audience. Aside from the six reporters sent to cover the event, only six people showed up to see the mayor of America's largest city and possible presidential contender speak.


----------



## FeXL

OK, Freddie. Earlier your excuse for Beto's behaviour was that "he was just a teenager" or some such pap.

I'd like to hear your rational for this:

Report: O’Rourke Torments His Wife With ‘Psycho’-Style Shower Scares, Pranks Her With Child Feces



> And then there were the pranks: the remote-controlled cockroach in the kitchen, the "Psycho"-style scares in the shower. *One time, according to a friend, Beto collected an especially verdant turd from one of their kids’ diapers and put it in a bowl, telling Amy it was avocado.*​


Bold mine.

If rumours of Trump doing something like this had surfaced, the compassionate, intellectual left would lose their $h!t...


----------



## FeXL

What's this. Yet _another_ 9th Circus ruling reversed?

Shocka...

Supreme Court Sides With Trump Administration, 5-4, on Detention of Immigrants Convicted of Crimes



> They reversed a ruling from the, _get this_, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that you can't arrest an immigrant for deportation over a crime he's been convicted of unless you're Johnny On the Spot and arrest him right after he gets out of prison.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the Fodder Queen.

Ocasio-Cortez Quietly Removed From Board Of PAC She And Top Aide Controlled



> Democratic Rep. Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez and her top aide are no longer board members of the outside PAC credited with orchestrating her political rise, according to a corporate document filed Friday to a Washington, D.C., agency.
> 
> ...
> 
> Ocasio-Cortez and Chakrabarti were officially removed from Justice Democrats’ board on March 15, according to a corporate document filed that day to the Washington, D.C. Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs.


Wonder why... beejacon


----------



## FeXL

Now don't be dissin' armchair shrinks! Assbook, Twitter & ehMac Progs _live_ for those amateur prognostications...

Shame Is Part of the Kink, Continued: Kellyanne Conway Blasts Own Husband For Claiming That He Has Diagnosed Trump with Narcissistic Personality Disorder



> So now Kellyanne Conway is asked about Trump's response, and she says it's well-justified.
> 
> Kellyanne Conway defends President Trump: “You think [Trump] shouldn’t respond when somebody, a non-medical professional accuses him of having a mental disorder? You think he should just take that sitting down?” https://t.co/P2fsMMPj6X
> — Kyle Morris (@RealKyleMorris) March 20, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Progs hardest hit.

Politico: 12 Different Political/Economic Models of Voter Behavior Predict a Trump Victory in 2020, and Not a Small One



> Moody’s Analytics has run 12 different models combining economic and political data. @realDonaldTrump win re-election in all of them. Mostly by a lot. Me and @POLITICO_Steve https://t.co/9Ni8sSlefM
> — Ben White (@morningmoneyben) March 21, 2019


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk the Electoral College s'more.

I’m not big on Tweetstorms, but I suppose if I am ever going to do one, now is the time.



> For those who don’t know me: I am the author of several books about #ElectoralCollege. Been studying it since 2001. Yesterday, E. Warren came out against the E.C., as you’ve prob. heard


----------



## FeXL

Good!

Trump Signs Executive Order Re-Affirming That Colleges Must Defend the Right to Free Speech Or Lose Federal Grants; Also Demands Schools Provide a Report Card on Their Students' Ability to Repay College Debt



> This order does not really order schools to do more than they're already _supposed_ to be doing -- but it is a shot across the bow that the law will be actually followed going forward, and noncompliant schools will be punished as the law provides, and that "compliance" may be interpreted more strictly than it has in the past.
> 
> He also directed schools to start reporting on how their students repay -- or do not repay -- student loans accumulated at their schools.


----------



## FeXL

Well, well, well...

Politico: Democrats Prepare Themselves for a "Dud" Mueller Report; Expect There to Be No More Indictments



> Remember, when evaluating your preferred pundits, which ones flagged this as a baseless conspiracy theory early and which have been breathlessly pushing it as the Rosetta Stone of impeachment.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Democrats plan to argue that if Mueller found absolutely nothing that just proves that they need to do All the Investigations.
> 
> ...
> 
> So Trump's guilty if there's evidence, and he's guilty if there's no evidence.


NPR: AG Barr Has Received the Mueller Report
Barr Confirms He's Reviewing It



> Also, alex the chick points out this timing:
> 
> 92 *Sent over after 5:00 p.m. On a Friday. On the Friday of what is pretty much the biggest sports weekend of the year. After 5:00 p.m. on a Friday during a time when it's a running joke about how nothing will get done because everyone is watching basketball.*
> 
> Oh yeah this is going to be a huge blockbuster and prove treason by Trump.
> 
> Yup yup yup yup.​


Bold mine.

Nails it.

Mueller concludes Russia probe, delivers report to AG Barr



> Special counsel Robert Mueller on Friday turned over his long-awaited final report on the contentious Russia investigation that has cast a dark shadow over Donald Trump’s presidency, entangled Trump’s family and resulted in criminal charges against some of the president’s closest associates.
> 
> The comprehensive report, still confidential, marks the end of Mueller’s probe but sets the stage for big public fights to come. The next steps are up to Trump’s attorney general, to Congress and, in all likelihood, federal courts.
> 
> The Justice Department said Mueller delivered his final report to Attorney General William Barr and officially concluded his probe of Russian election interference and possible coordination with Trump associates. The report will now be reviewed by Barr, who has said he will write his own account communicating Mueller’s findings to Congress and the American public.


----------



## Dr.G.

No collusion!!!!!!!!!!!k Trump in 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trump will push for a repeal of the 22nd Amendment, ratified in 1951, which was passed in reaction to President Franklin D. Roosevelt's four terms in office. "If FDR had four terms, I should be allowed to have five terms, since I am a better president that he was." D. Trump Mar. 22nd, 2019

"The witch hunt is over. I am going on vacation." Mueller.

"Big party tonight at Mar o Lago ............ BYOC (Bring Your Own Cash)." D. Trump


----------



## Dr.G.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The report is 735 pages ........... and the executive summary is 113 words long. No collusion!!!!!!!! What a waste of time and money. Now, it's on to 2020 ................. on to Little Big Horn. Luckily, Trump does not wear boots due to his bone spurs. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15VecGrp58g


----------



## FeXL

The irony is lost, isn't it...



Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, Trump does not wear boots due to his bone spurs.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> I should be allowed to have five terms, since I am a better president that he was."


There are many presidents better than FDR. Some say all of them.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> There are many presidents better than FDR. Some say all of them.


Well, Trump is #1 ............... in the history books ................ and in his own mind. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

:---(

Robert Mueller submits Russia report: Investigation into election interference concludes



> A senior Justice Department official has told CBS News that Mueller is not recommending any further indictments.


OUT: MUELLER’S TOTALLY GOING TO FIND PROOF THAT TRUMP IS A PUTIN STOOGE AND A CRIMINAL. In: Comey: I ‘don’t care’ if Mueller finds wrongdoing by Trump.



> 'OMG are those TEARS'?!


Tucker Carlson Worries About Brian "Tater" Stelter's Hunger Pangs; Sends Him a Dozen Jelly Donuts



> What a mensch!
> 
> Sweet guy. He's made of nothin' but love.


Tucker Carlson: The Media Figures Who Pushed This Soon-to-be-Disproved Sham Collusion Conspiracy Theory Should be "Punished"
Mollie Hemingway on Tucker Now



> To be clear: There Are. No. Sealed. Indictments. Per law enforcement official who knows. https://t.co/SMfWv8CGEK
> — Ken Dilanian (@KenDilanianNBC) March 22, 2019​


----------



## Macfury

Rachel Maddow was near tears! The rest of the MSM is apoplectic!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Rachel Maddow was near tears! The rest of the MSM is apoplectic!


This is my schadenfreude smile —>


----------



## Beej

The Reckoning of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...rris-dees-and-the-southern-poverty-law-center



> In Harper’s, Ken Silverstein had revealed that the center had accumulated an endowment topping a hundred and twenty million dollars while paying lavish salaries to its highest-ranking staffers and spending far less than most nonprofit groups on the work that it claimed to do.





> Outside of work, we spent a lot of time drinking and dishing in Montgomery bars and restaurants about the oppressive security regime, the hyperbolic fund-raising appeals, and the fact that, though the center claimed to be effective in fighting extremism, “hate” always continued to be on the rise, more dangerous than ever, with each year’s report on hate groups. “The S.P.L.C.—making hate pay,” we’d say.


It's almost like a profit motive exists whether or not there is a for-profit corporation. It helps if you can wrap your profit motive in righteous glory, though. Higher margins on that product.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the nothingburger from the Left, RINO'S, Progs, GOP-e (BIRM).

The Dud Bombshell, Continued



> Some old spin/new spin I heard round about Feb., when they started downplaying this:
> 
> Old Spin: Muh Russia!
> 
> 
> New Spin: Nah brah. I never really thought there was any Russian collusion.​
> YUP! That was a really egregious gear-grinding reversal. I forgot about that flip-flop. They have so many.


----------



## Macfury

The new spin I keep hearing is that the Mueller report--even though unread--will provide evidence on which to build new collusion investigations.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The new spin I keep hearing is that the Mueller report--even though unread--will provide evidence on which to build new collusion investigations.


Really? Like with Bill's Wife & Uranium 1?

Kewl... :love2:


----------



## Dr.G.

"Where's the beef!!!!!!!"

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idnwh6iDnXA[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEBCV0ic6Tc[/ame]

The findings are in .......................... no beef, no collusion, no crimes, no coordination, nothing .......................... but, for some reason, MacDonald's is being accused of doping the American president to do/say strange things with their "special sauce" on their Big Macs.


----------



## SINC

That looks like the lowest calorie burger I have seen in a long while.


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> That looks like the lowest calorie burger I have seen in a long while.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


----------



## SINC

NBC just interrupted my golf game as Mueller Report released by the Attorney General.

Trump has been cleared of any collusion with Russians and will not face any legal challenges to his action.

Trump wins.

MUELLER REPORT FINDS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST TRUMP; AG PLANS NO PROSECUTION

https://www.nbcnews.com


----------



## Dr.G.

SINC said:


> NBC just interrupted my golf game as Mueller Report released by the Attorney General.
> 
> Trump has been cleared of any collusion with Russians and will not face any legal challenges to his action.
> 
> Trump wins.
> 
> MUELLER REPORT FINDS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST TRUMP; AG PLANS NO PROSECUTION
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com


Old news from a fake new network. Fox covered it all an hour ago. Tomorrow is a US holiday to celebrate this real news. Trump has said that even though he is in Florida at the moment, hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million people, have gathered outside of the White House and chanting "Four more years ............ four more terms". We shall see.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL

Related:

There Is No Joy In Swampville Today



> Mighty Comey has struck out.


*"TOTAL VINDICATION:" Mueller Report Summary Finds No Evidence That Anyone In Trump Campaign or Administration Conspired With, Colluded With, or Coordinated With Russia
In Fact, "NO US PERSON" So Conspired, Either*

Emphasis from the link.



> Isn't it funny that the people who are always shouting the loudest that they're _smaaahhht_ always turn out to be the stupidest?
> 
> Anyone think that NeverTrump is going to find other stuff to talk about in the next few days?
> 
> Stand by for dog videos and debates about whether a taco is a sandwich
> — Julie Kelly (@julie_kelly2) March 24, 2019​


Yeppers...


----------



## FeXL

Also related:

Glenn Greenwald



> Everyone who questioned this buill**** scam from the start - who endured accusations of being Kremlin agents, Putin stooges, Trump supporters, anti-US haters, who got banned from cable news & had smear jobs published in the New Yorker & the like - should wear it all with pride.


----------



## SINC

Quite the event!


----------



## FeXL

The Backstepping Begins in Earnest



> Let’s face it, when you’re a Devoted Disciple of the Church of Leftism, no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever dissuade you away from your deeply held religious convictions. Plus, as Dennis Prager frequently says, *“Being on the Left means never having to say you are sorry” … or wrong … or deeply misguided.* The reason Far Leftists constantly remain ensconced deeply within the bubble of like-minded nitwits is because NO ONE ELSE would ever tolerate their nonsense!


Bold mine.

Sound like anybody on these boards? <cough>The Bigot<cough>

Comments nail it.

Related:


----------



## Macfury

I'm waiting for a nice video recap of all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth, with Maddow's sniveling as the capper.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'm waiting for a nice video recap of all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth, with Maddow's sniveling as the capper.




You do realize that Trump has not actually been exonerated, no matter what he might claim. Also, a four page “summary” from Trump’s hand-picked AG is not the same thing as seeing the actual report.


----------



## Macfury

What's up with Beto? Is this guy high?

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1109654820795924487


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You do realize that Trump has not actually been exonerated, no matter what he might claim. Also, a four page “summary” from Trump’s hand-picked AG is not the same thing as seeing the actual report.


Let's see. They bludgeoned several individuals with everything they had and still drew a blank. Pretty obvious this was backroom politics at its worst. Intended to deflect attention from the real reasons for Hiliaries loss, it may well come back to bite the Democrypts in the A55 in 2020.

BTW this travesty cost taxpayers several times more than the inquiry into 9/11.


----------



## Macfury

In essence, nothing could exonerate him as far as you're concerned! Did you cry when the report came out? It's over baby!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You do realize that Trump has not actually been exonerated, no matter what he might claim. Also, a four page “summary” from Trump’s hand-picked AG is not the same thing as seeing the actual report.


Hilarious to see your mockingbird post, with the loser pundits all using the term "handpicked." How did Obama pick his AG? By hand, or some other method? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Fukc me...

You do realize that he hasn't been charged or convicted either, right? No matter what all the whining, crying Progs might claim, wish for, have wet dreams about, right?

And, _and_, if the entire report _was_ published:

a) You still wouldn't read the whole thing, you'd rely on sounds bites from CNN;
b) If it said precisely the same thing that "Trump’s hand-picked AG" had, the _progressive thinkers_ (Progs, GOP-e, Never-Trumpers, Dems [BIRM]) would all start calling "collusion" again _anyways_.

It's done, Freddie. Over. Put it to bed & climb on board the next Prog freak show. I'm sure you can find another nit to pick somewhere.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You do realize that Trump has not actually been exonerated, no matter what he might claim. Also, a four page “summary” from Trump’s hand-picked AG is not the same thing as seeing the actual report.


----------



## FeXL

Just like he's going to when Red Rachel gets her ass handed to her in 3 weeks.

:---(



Macfury said:


> Did you cry when the report came out? It's over baby!


----------



## FeXL

Comes a Reckoning



> The very the _very very_ liberal, and very anti-Trump, Matt Taibbi writes that the the press has damaged its reputation far worse than its purported gullibility on WMDs in Iraq ever did.


More:



> *Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base. As Baker notes, a full 50.3% of respondents in a poll conducted this month said they agree with Trump the Mueller probe is a "witch hunt."*​


If nothing else, this should be considered a victory on its own.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Related:

The Morning Rant



> "So I was watching a CNN roundtable discussion earlier and Brian Stelter said, 'Well, guys, we really screwed the pooch on this one. There was absolutely no collusion between Trump, or for that matter, any other American, and Russia. But none of our viewers would have ever guessed that that might be the case from our coverage. We were mad as hell that Hillary lost and we hated Trump for beating her. We let our partisanship and hatred of Trump completely undermine our competence as journalists. By knowingingly and enthusiastically participating and egging on this time and money-wasting witch-hunt, we've discredited ourselves and our profession. It's going to be hard to repair the damage to our credibilty. We should be servicing the glory holes for quarters in rest stops along the interstate. Compared to what we've been doing for the last two years, that would be honorable work.' And then the camera panned over to John Brennan who said, 'Well, Brian, I agree with everything you've said. But I have no right to get on my high horse about any of this because I'm an utter disgrace to the intelligence community. Hell, I'm lucky I'm not doing 10 years in a federal PMITA prison right now. I can't believe you guys had me on for interviews week after week as if I were some kinda lofty Olympian sage. The reality is, I'm a partisan hack who hates Trump and wants him gone by any means necessary. How about you, Pete?' And Peter Strzok was on the panel, too. And he said, 'John, compared to me, you're a tower of integrity. I'm a lying sh*tstain. I give the word slimy a bad name. Hell, I have to look up to tie Sid Blumenthal's shoelaces. I'm not even good enough to be pond scum. I'm yeast. Everybody knows that. Everybody has always known that. It was obvious from the get-go. Everyone sitting at this table was part of an organized, coordinated coup attempt against a sitting president. We all owe him an apology.' And then I woke up. Dang, I have to ease up on that fermented pineapple just before hitting the sack."


Luvs me the memes...


----------



## FeXL

Michael Avenatti, Michael Avenatti. That name sounds _so_ familiar...

Stormy Daniels' ex-lawyer Michael Avenatti arrested for alleged $20 million extortion scheme against Nike, embezzling client's money, defrauding bank



> Celebrity lawyer Michael Avenatti was arrested Monday on charges that he tried to extort up to $25 million from Nike by threatening to hurt that athletic apparel giant financially with negative publicity.
> Avenatti also is charged in a separate federal case out of Los Angeles, where he is accused of embezzling a client's money "in order to pay his own expense and debts," and of "defrauding a bank in Mississippi," prosecutors said.
> Avenatti had represented porn star Stormy Daniels in her lawsuit against President Donald Trump and his former lawyer Michael Cohen related to a non-disclosure agreement she had signed on the eve of the 2016 presidential election to keep quiet about her alleged affair with Trump in exchange for a $130,000 payment.


Related:

_Michael Avenatti Charged by Feds for Shakedown Extortion Against Nike_
AND ALSO, Being Charged in California on Separate Wire Fraud Charges!



> Hmmm... who'd've thought that a woman who is either a blackmailer or someone staying _juuuuuust_ on this side of the blackmail line would be attracted to a shakedown artist as a lawyer?
> 
> JUST IN: Federal prosecutors announce charges against @MichaelAvenatti, alleging he tried to extort Nike, threatening to release damaging about the company, if Nike didn't agree to pay millions to him and a client.
> — Steven Portnoy (@stevenportnoy) March 25, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> The complaint alleges Avenatti said he'd refrain from holding a press conference, if Nike paid his client $1.5 million & agreed to "retain" him to conduct an "internal investigation," for which he and a co-conspirator would be paid "at a minimum, between $15 and $25 million."
> — Steven Portnoy (@stevenportnoy) March 25, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Just as Google, FaceBook, and Twitter Banned Conspiracy Theorists Like Alex Jones, It's Now Time To Demand They Also Ban the Russia Collusion Conspiracy Theorists
SDNY Reading Charges Against Avenatti Within Minutes



> Unless they're partisan actors posing as neutral platforms, of course.
> 
> Just when you thought the media's credibility was hanging by a thread, along comes special counsel Robert Mueller's final report -- finding no Russia collusion with Trump's 2016 campaign, shredding all the conspiracy theories and false accusations to smithereens.
> 
> ....
> 
> ocial media networks didn’t hesitate to ban Alex Jones of Infowars and others for spreading misinformation and/or conspiracy theories, so why not ban House Majority Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Schiff, Eric Swalwell, John Brennan, Beto O'Rourke and scores of media hacks who’ve all done the same?
> 
> And what about Google? Will it continue to allow search results that yield now-debunked conspiracy theories surrounding Russian collusion and the Trump campaign? *Or will they do the right thing and scrub misinformation and lies to stop the hoax from perpetuating?*​




Bold mine.

Yeah, right...


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Oh My: Evidence Emerges That One Candidate _Did_ Collude With a Foreign Slavic Nation -- Hillary Clinton



> Ukraine's top prosecutor divulged in an interview aired Wednesday on Hill.TV that he has opened an investigation into whether his country's law enforcement apparatus intentionally leaked financial records during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign about then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort in an effort to sway the election in favor of Hillary Clinton.​
> I'm sure Fake Jake and the Gang Who Couldn't Report Straight will clamor for an FBI investigation, and maybe even a special counsel, to probe if there was any back-channel Collusion on this point.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Shocka...
> 
> Oh My: Evidence Emerges That One Candidate _Did_ Collude With a Foreign Slavic Nation -- Hillary Clinton


FeXL, how can you trust the Ukraine's _hand-picked_ prosecutor?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> FeXL, how can you trust the Ukraine's _hand-picked_ prosecutor?


Ah knows...


----------



## FeXL

The Media’s Russia ‘Bombshells’ Look Even Worse Now That Mueller Found No Collusion



> Attorney General William Barr told Congress Sunday that special counsel Robert Mueller did not find collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government, destroying two years of media speculation and bad reporting.
> 
> The obsession to prove collusion has dampened the media’s journalistic abilities, leading to a seemingly endless list of corrections, retractions and apologies.
> 
> In light of Mueller concluding his investigation, we’ve compiled a list of some of the worst media screwups in the history of Russia theories.


----------



## FeXL

Good.

Trump Appoints Conservative Supporter Stephen Moore to Fed Board; Moore Calls The Fed "The Swamp" And Has Said "Fire the Fed"



> This is the Club for Growth guy.
> 
> Moore has long been a supporter of Trump, including throughout the 2016 presidential election. He has written approvingly of the president’s criticisms of the Federal Reserve.
> 
> * "I believe the people on the Federal Reserve Board should be thrown out for economic malpractice," he said in December.*
> 
> Moore also spoke disapprovingly of Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, noting, "I always thought he was a bad choice. He's been a Fed guy for many years. Donald Trump wanted to drain the swamp. The Fed is the swamp."
> 
> He also authored a recent op-ed titled, "Fire the Fed" in which he likened Powell to a misguided pilot who lost his way.​


Bold mine.

Sounds good to me.


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ an emergency.

"Medieval" Diseases Flare as Unsanitary Living Conditions Proliferate



> Infectious diseases—some that ravaged populations in the Middle Ages—are resurging in California and around the country, and are hitting homeless populations especially hard.
> 
> Los Angeles recently experienced an outbreak of typhus—a disease spread by infected fleas on rats and other animals—in downtown streets. Officials briefly closed part of City Hall after reporting that rodents had invaded the building.
> 
> People in Washington state have been infected with Shigella bacteria, which is spread through feces and causes the diarrheal disease shigellosis, as well as Bartonella quintana, which spreads through body lice and causes trench fever.
> 
> Hepatitis A, also spread primarily through feces, infected more than 1,000 people in Southern California in the past two years. The disease also has erupted in New Mexico, Ohio and Kentucky, primarily among people who are homeless or use drugs.
> 
> Public health officials and politicians are using terms like “disaster” and “public health crisis” to describe the outbreaks, and they warn that these diseases can easily jump beyond the homeless population.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk anti-Semitic Bro-Fo s'more.

Mike Pompeo Unloads On Ilhan Omar Over Her Anti-Semitic Comments



> Secretary of State Mike Pompeo slammed Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) over her anti-Semitic rhetoric during a Thursday interview with CBN News, calling her actions "deeply troubling" and "abhorrent."
> 
> "To see this from a member of Congress like Congresswoman Omar is — I talked about this being dark," Pompeo said. "The rise of anti-Semitism in the United States and in Europe and in, frankly, all across the world is something that is deeply troubling, and to see someone — a duly elected congressman — behave in that way, to speak about anti-Semitism in that way, is of great concern."


When Omar met Erdogan: The unearthed report from their 2017 meeting



> About a year and a half ago, on Sept. 18, 2017, a relatively unknown Minnesota state representative flew to New York City to hold a closed-door meeting with the president of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who was in town for the 72nd U.N. General Assembly. This meeting of now-Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., with Mr. Erdogan, the despotic ruler of Turkey, went almost entirely unreported, as it was not open to the press and Omar was not a high-profile figure. Since then, photos of the meeting surfaced on social media, but it largely appeared that there was no report detailing what happened during the hour-long meeting.
> 
> But one local Minnesota paper that covers the Somali community did receive access to the Erdogan-Omar meeting. That publication is the relatively obscure Tusmo Times, a Somali paper that covers the Twin Cities metro area. Abdirahman Mukhtar, its founder and editor, wrote a story in the Somali language discussing the meeting. For reasons unknown, the piece has since been deleted by the Tusmo Times. However, a copy of the report was obtained from archive.org’s Wayback Machine and translated by One Hour Translate.


COLLUSION!!!:yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Now I know where Freddie gets this crap from...

Maddow's Crying Again



> What a shock, she's speculating uninformedly and conspiracy-theorizing. Her theory is that Mueller plans to indict Trump after he leaves office (somehow) and isn't saying so because he doesn't want to "taint the jury" in the upcoming trial.
> 
> Oh, and for further Conspiracy Theory Adventures, she suggests that Barr deliberately "blew up" that possibility by saying "no, there was no obstruction," thereby tainting future juries against convicting Trump, whereas nice ethical Mueller tried to keep it neutral.
> 
> She's just brainstorming science fiction scenarios now.​


I jes' luvs it when a Prog goes grasping at straws. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Now I know where Freddie gets this crap from...
> 
> Maddow's Crying Again
> 
> 
> 
> I jes' luvs it when a Prog goes grasping at straws. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


Pic from the Twitter feed referenced:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Michael Avenatti, Michael Avenatti. That name sounds _so_ familiar...
> 
> Stormy Daniels' ex-lawyer Michael Avenatti arrested for alleged $20 million extortion scheme against Nike, embezzling client's money, defrauding bank
> 
> Related:
> 
> _Michael Avenatti Charged by Feds for Shakedown Extortion Against Nike_
> AND ALSO, Being Charged in California on Separate Wire Fraud Charges!


Co-conspirator charged is the same guy who legally represented Colin Kaepernick. Wonder if the Nike/Kaepernick deal was somehow part of this.


----------



## Dr.G.

This just in from Fox News and The New Yorker -- https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...kLLersvUfB4pNcqXt9_HEIbzoMNDgkJ2aA93f5VcnRGac


----------



## FeXL

Unfukcingbelievable...

Smollet Hoax!



> Presto Chicago! It’s the old Obama magic.


Fist comment nails it:



> It’s a good thing I already had no faith in the justice system.


All Charges Against Jussie Smollet Dropped. Sentenced to Community Service Only.
KIM FOXX, ALREADY ACCUSED OF DOING FAVORS FOR JUSSIE, DOES ONE MORE FAVOR.



> Listen: There are no legal consequences for filing a hoax report of a hate crime.
> 
> None. Zero.
> 
> If you're in a Protected Class, you can break the law to "raise awareness" to your heart's content.
> 
> Jussie Smollett will not be prosecuted for allegedly faking a racial attack, because all charges have been dropped!!!
> 
> Jussie and his lawyers ran to court Tuesday morning in Chicago, where he was facing 16 felony counts of lying to police in the alleged racial and homophobic attack.
> 
> Jussie will surrender his $10,000 bond. We're told he has agreed to perform community service. But that's it. The case is over.​


----------



## Macfury

Cook County, the heart of Dem corruption.


----------



## FeXL

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel: Letting Smollett Off the Hook Sends a Message That There Is No Accountability in the System; Calls it a "Whitewash;" Says "How Dare He" as Smollett Continues Attacking Police



> The Chicago police are united in condemning this whitewash as well.
> 
> Eddie Johnson, the CPD Superintendent (which I think is the top cop), notes that Smollett claimed he wanted a trial so that the truth would come out, but then did his dirty deal in a closed court to hide in "secrecy."
> 
> Emmanuel stresses the high cost Chicago taxpayers paid to investigate this hoax. He then notes that the hate crimes passed after Matthew Shepherd's death are damaged by this hoax, and that people will tend to disbelieve them. "And he did this all in the name of self-promotion."
> 
> "This is a whitewash of justice. A grand jury could not have been clearer.... Where is the accountability in the system? *You cannot have, because of a person's position, one set of rules apply to them, and another set of rules apply to everyone else.*"


Bold mine.

You can in a _progressive_ world.


----------



## FeXL

Justice Department Sides With Federal Court And Says "Strike All of Obamacare Down;" Defense Department Informs Congress It's Making One Billion Dollars Available to BUILD THE WALL



> The Justice Department has now announced that it will not defend any part of the Affordable Care Act. If it has its way, the entire ACA should fall.https://t.co/GTJInGDsA4
> — Nicholas Bagley (@nicholas_bagley) March 26, 2019​


And:



> Meanwhile, more winning:
> 
> 
> BREAKING: The Defense Department has notified Congress that it has authorized the transfer of $1 billion to begin new wall construction along the US-Mexico border - CNN
> — Breaking911 (@Breaking911) March 26, 2019​


Related to the latter quote:

House Override Vote of Trump's Emergency Border Wall Order Fails, 248-181; Wall Construction Will Begin



> The Hill:
> 
> The chamber voted 248-181 to override the veto, falling short of the roughly 290 votes, or two-thirds majority, needed.​
> Now, expect a court challenge, but here's the thing: This is a _statutory_ use of the emergency power -- not an assertion of inherent constitutional power, which the courts would be more skeptical about -- but a statutory use of power that _Congress delegated to the president_.
> 
> Further, Congress spelled out the precise method by which such an order could be challenged: by a vote on a resolution of disapproval, which the president could veto (and then a subsequent veto override vote).
> 
> *This was all specified by Congress. The Rule of Law was followed. To the letter.*
> 
> This is not a case where the President is usurping Congressional power and the court feels it should step in to safeguard the separation of powers.
> 
> This is a case where Congress _gave_ this power to the president, and the president accepted.


Bold mine.

Interesting.


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel: Letting Smollett Off the Hook Sends a Message That There Is No Accountability in the System; Calls it a "Whitewash;" Says "How Dare He" as Smollett Continues Attacking Police
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> You can in a _progressive_ world.


16 counts just magically disappeared and parts of the case will be sealed. Guess it is not being dropped because he is innocent or there would be no need to seal anything. Plus he is paying $10,000 to walk away from this and do a little community service. I get it on his end I would be jumping at that deal considering what should have happened when he was found guilty.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> 16 counts just magically disappeared and parts of the case will be sealed. Guess it is not being dropped because he is innocent or there would be no need to seal anything. Plus he is paying $10,000 to walk away from this and do a little community service. I get it on his end I would be jumping at that deal considering what should have happened when he was found guilty.


Worse, he is_ already deemed_ to have done community service work, therefore the deal is complete.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Worse, he is_ already deemed_ to have done community service work, therefore the deal is complete.


Yeah. All 16, that's one-six, hours.

Even Obama's Strategist David Axelrod is Slamming Kim Foxx



> Meanwhile... here's the "community service" Jessie Smollett did.
> 
> _Sixteen hours_ of minding a bookstore.
> 
> @RobElgasABC7 4 minutes ago
> 
> NEW: @ABC7Chicago has confirmed leading to today's decision by prosecutors to drop all charges against Jussie Smollett, Smollett did community service at Jesse Jackson, Sr.'s @RPCoalition. 1
> 
> Part of Smollett's community service for Rainbow Push included 8 hours of service on March 23rd. And 8 hours of service on March 25th. Service included working in the bookstore, critiquing in the broadcast studio and speaking to students and parents who visited. 2/2​
> He talked to his fans about broadcasting? _What a hardship duty._


Related:

OMG: The Wealthy, Well-Connected Family of the Senate Aide Who Maliciously Leaked the Home Addresses and Information About the Children of Republican Senators Convinces Judge to Let Him Off With No Penalty; They'll Just Privately Supervise Him



> Do you want a revolution?
> 
> Because you are now officially *begging* for a revolution.
> 
> * The former Senate aide accused of doxxing Republicans during Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing allegedly possessed troves of information, including Senate data, court proceedings indicate.
> 
> The suspect is the son of a wealthy family with ties to Dianne Feinstein, the Senate Judiciary Committee’s top Democrat. Republicans suggested she timed a leak about sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh to harm his confirmation chances.
> 
> The court barred the media from hearing details about the alleged breach, and said the case is slated to be resolved with a plea deal April 5.*​


It's coming...


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Collusion: _US Embassy Pressed Ukraine to Drop Probe Into Soros-Connected Group in 2016_



> John Solomon is on fire:
> 
> Lutsenko [a newly appointed prosecutor widely hailed as a hero with Ukraine for resisting Russia] told me he was stunned when *the ambassador "gave me a list of people whom we should not prosecute." The list included a founder of the AntAC group...*
> 
> * It turns out the group that Ukrainian law enforcement was probing was co-funded by the Obama administration and liberal mega-donor George Soros. And it was collaborating with the FBI agents investigating then-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort's business activities with pro-Russian figures in Ukraine.*
> 
> The implied message to Ukraine's prosecutors was clear: Don't target AntAC in the middle of an America presidential election in which Soros was backing Hillary Clinton to succeed another Soros favorite, Barack Obama, Ukrainian officials said.​


Links' bold.

Related:

Leftist Wackos Who Worshipped Mueller Like a Saint Come to Deliver Them Are Now Chagrined and Regretting Their (I'm Not Kidding) Mueller Tattoos



> Too... much... winning...
> 
> please...
> 
> I'm... getting... tired...
> 
> of...
> 
> all...
> 
> the winning...
> 
> The sense of *mourning* started to take hold over the weekend...
> 
> "It is definitely embarrassing," he said. "It's a drag knowing there are people out there who are gloating."​


More:



> Tell me more about the devastation.
> 
> You people really are hysterical neurotic barely-functioning basket-cases, aren't you?
> 
> We should definitely follow your sage lead on matters national.


Yeppers.

The final quote is hilarious.


----------



## FeXL

Well, the Fodder Queen just got put in her place.

Senate Votes Down Green New Deal Resolution 0-57



> The Senate voted down on Tuesday S.J. Res. 8, the Green New Deal Resolution, 0-57, with all Republicans, three Democrats, and one Independent voting against it.
> 
> Forty-three Democrats voted “present” and three Democrats — Sens. Joe Manchin (D-WV), Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ), and Doug Jones (D-AL) — voted against the resolution. Sen. Angus King (I-ME) also voted with Republicans against the measure.
> 
> *Many Democrats — including Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA), who sponsored the resolution in the Senate — called the vote a “sham” because Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) called for it without scheduling any hearings.*


Bold mine.

Hey, you'll have to vote for it in order to find out what's in it...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Related:

House Leaders Bring In Barack Obama To Help Rein In Freshmen Dems. It Doesn't Work.



> Leading House Democrats, apparently concerned that freshmen Dems, like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), are making trouble for national candidates by proposing massive new funding plans that are expensive and unpopular, brought in former President Barack Obama for a sit-down talk.
> 
> The Washington Post reports that Obama sat down with legislators, including Ocasio-Cortez, to explain that high-price tag policies would hurt legislative success rates overall, and cautioned freshmen lawmakers to think "boldly" but logically about plans like the Green New Deal (though he didn't name any specific policies).
> 
> "He encouraged the lawmakers — about half-dozen of whom worked in his own administration — to continue to pursue 'bold' ideas as they shaped legislation during their first year in the House," the Post said, but encouraged *"members to look at price tags."*
> 
> “He said we shouldn’t be afraid of big, bold ideas — but also need to think in the nitty-gritty about how those big, bold ideas will work *and how you pay for them*,” one meeting attendee told the Post.


Bold mine.

Since when did Barry ever concern himself about how expensive an idea was or how gov't was going to pay for it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

FFS, Freddie, give it a rest.

The system (ostensibly) runs on a little known notion called "innocent until proven guilty". You may have heard of it before. Maybe. 

If there is a complete absence of evidence to the contrary, guess what he is?

Innocent!



Freddie_Biff said:


>


----------



## FeXL

My New Favorite Thing: Watching NeverTrumpers Who Have Pushed the Collusion Narrative For Years Now Claiming to Have Always Been "Collusion Skeptics"



> Some NeverTrump bloggers and pundits who have zestfully retweeted and hyped and promoted every single drop of Russia Hysteria Hoax News and speculated wildly about the import each dribble had about Trump's future, but _never_ linked or mentioned a single piece debunking or questioning these hoax pieces.
> 
> They're now pretending they were totally not into the Collusion Delusion and all and were always "collusion skeptics" and weren't at _all_ like their twitter palz or their Hero Jake Tapper.
> 
> Have any of these alleged "collusion skeptics" ever linked or mentioned Lee Smith?
> 
> Mollie Hemingway?
> 
> Julie Kelly?
> 
> Margot Cleveland?
> 
> Kim Strassel?
> 
> How citing about Nunes' disclosures?
> 
> How about _Andy McCarthy's_ pieces questioning the origins and basis of the case? I mean, he ****ing _works_ with you for crying out loud. You'd think that would buy _some_ credibility.
> 
> No? Never? _Never?_
> 
> *Not a single time?*


Emphasis from the link.


----------



## FeXL

One question: Just how do you get on one of these mailing lists?

GOVERNMENT WASTE: Audit Reveals Tens Of Millions Of Dollars In Social Security Payments Went To Dead People



> The Office of the Inspector General (IG) at the Social Security Administration (SSA) has released a *March 2019 internal audit* that sought to determine whether the SSA has been doling out benefits to dead people in Maryland and Michigan. The answer, as it turns out, is a resounding "yes." Overall, the IG found that the SSA had paid out nearly $42 million to about 500 dead people.


Links' bold.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> FFS, Freddie, give it a rest.
> 
> 
> 
> The system (ostensibly) runs on a little known notion called "innocent until proven guilty". You may have heard of it before. Maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a complete absence of evidence to the contrary, guess what he is?
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent!




Uh huh. According to the four page summary (all that we have so far) provided by AG Barr, he in fact has not been exonerated, so climb off yer high horse already.


----------



## FeXL

Just like talking to an f'ing fence post...

He doesn't need to be exonerated, Freddie. He started out presumed innocent and, in the complete & total absence of any evidence presented to the contrary, he remains innocent.

What part of this is so difficult for Progs to understand?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh huh. According to the four page summary (all that we have so far) provided by AG Barr, he in fact has not been exonerated, so climb off yer high horse already.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> He doesn't need to be exonerated, Freddie. He started out presumed innocent and, in the complete & total absence of any evidence presented to the contrary, he remains innocent.
> 
> What part of this is so difficult for Progs to understand?


Freddie shares DNA with a Yeti... or at least it has not been disproven that he does.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh huh. According to the four page summary (all that we have so far) provided by AG Barr, he in fact has not been exonerated, so climb off yer high horse already.


and has not been proven guilty either. You obviously do not like the President, and that is ok. Just do it for reason that makes sense and not for things you "wish" were true but have no facts back them up. 

People want it to be true and they want him to fail so bad. Where did all the peace and love go? Or is that only for people that are deemed acceptable because they hold your views?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Freddie shares DNA with a Yeti... or at least it has not been disproven that he does.


Yep. And, until he's _officially_ exonerated, he killed JFK, as well...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> and has not been proven guilty either. You obviously do not like the President, and that is ok. Just do it for reason that makes sense and not for things you "wish" were true but have no facts back them up.
> 
> 
> 
> People want it to be true and they want him to fail so bad. Where did all the peace and love go? Or is that only for people that are deemed acceptable because they hold your views?




Poor President Trump. How unlucky he must be to have been surrounded by all these people that have now been indicted and some of them in jail even. I mean, what are the odds that he could have been so unlucky in his picks without being guilty of anything himself?


----------



## FeXL

So, what's the thrust here?

Guilt by association?

FFS, Freddie, there's near a million people in your neck of the woods. You must be a thief, rapist, druggie, liar, killer, who knows what, just because of your proximity.

XX)

Does that logic flow? No? Well, neither does yours...



Freddie_Biff said:


> I mean, what are the odds that he could have been so unlucky in his picks without being guilty of anything himself?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, what's the thrust here?
> 
> 
> 
> Guilt by association?
> 
> 
> 
> FFS, Freddie, there's near a million people in your neck of the woods. You must be a thief, rapist, druggie, liar, killer, who knows what, just because of your proximity.
> 
> 
> 
> XX)
> 
> 
> 
> Does that logic flow? No? Well, neither does yours...




What’s the thrust here? FFS, FeXL, if you can’t figure out that Trump is guilty as sin and that that fact just hasn’t been revealed yet, then you’re thicker than I thought. And I thought you always prided yourself on how bright you were. Apparently not.


----------



## FeXL

Duplicate.


----------



## FeXL

Guilty as sin of what? Be precise.

What empirical, measurable, evidence do you have have to support your conjecture? Be precise.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Blah, blah-blah, blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Guilty as sin of what? Be precise.
> 
> What empirical, measurable, evidence do you have have to support your conjecture? Be precise.


He's become bored with your questions...


----------



## Macfury

Give me 10 of your best buds and unlimited power to investigate them. I can have several of them in jail on actual or process crimes by year's end.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Poor President Trump. How unlucky he must be to have been surrounded by all these people that have now been indicted and some of them in jail even. I mean, what are the odds that he could have been so unlucky in his picks without being guilty of anything himself?


----------



## FeXL

'Bout right...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He's become bored with your questions...


Curious how that always seems to occur when he gets his ears pinned back with tough questions...


----------



## FeXL

I agree.

Republicans on Intelligence Committee Open Hearing By Demanding That the Lying, Leaking (and Lie-Leaking) Adam Schiff Step Down as Ranking Member



> Katie Pavlich:
> 
> "Since prior to the inauguration of President Trump in January 2017, you have been at the center of a well-orchestrated media campaign claiming, among other things, the Trump campaign colluded with the Russia government. Indeed, before the appointment of Robert Mueller as Special Counsel, you alleged during one of your frequent television interviews that there was 'more than circumstantial evidence' of collusion but you could not 'go into particulars,'" the letter states. "You continue to proclaim in the media that there is 'significant evidence of collusion.' You further states you 'will continue to investigate the counterintelligence issues. That is the president or people around him comprised in any way by a hostile foreign power?' Your willingness to promote a demonstrably false narrative is alarming."
> 
> "The findings of the Special Counsel conclusively refute your past and present assertions and have exposed you as having abused your position to knowingly promote false information, having damaged the integrity of this Committee, and undermined faith in U.S. government institutions," the letter continues. "Your actions both past and present are incompatible with your duty as Chairman of this Committee, which alone in the House of Representatives has the obligation and authority to provide effective oversight of the U.S. intelligence community. As such, we have no faith in your ability to discharge your duties in a manner consistent with your Constitutional responsibility and urge your immediate resignation as Chairman of this Committee."​


----------



## FeXL

Pelosi Introduces New Climate Bill One Day After Green New Deal Collapsed



> Democratic lawmakers introduced a stripped-down climate bill Wednesday less than a day after Senate Republicans dinged a more ambitious plan.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi described the Climate Action Now Act as one of many steps toward Democratic efforts to confront global warming. In particular, the bill aims to prevent President Donald Trump from removing the United States from the non-binding Paris Climate accord.
> 
> The bill is a watered-down version of New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal, which called for shifting completely away from fossil fuels and toward green energy. The GND was torpedoed in the Senate on Tuesday after Republicans voted en masse against the resolution while Democrats voted present.
> 
> *Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat, was not present Wednesday during the roll out of the Climate Action Act.*


Bold mine.

_No Fodder Queen?_ :yikes:


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> What’s the thrust here? FFS, FeXL, if you can’t figure out that Trump is guilty as sin and that that fact just hasn’t been revealed yet, then you’re thicker than I thought. And I thought you always prided yourself on how bright you were. Apparently not.


That is a super scary sentiment. Guilt without evidence. Would fit right in in 1984. 

Guilty, just no facts yet but wait... they are coming! If you knew they were coming you would have the facts and could bring them forward. Hoping because you "feel" he is a bad guy and thus guilty is a dangerous precedent.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> That is a super scary sentiment. Guilt without evidence. Would fit right in in 1984.


:clap::clap::clap:



wonderings said:


> ...Hoping because you "feel" he is a bad guy and thus guilty is a dangerous precedent.


For Progs it's all about the "feels". Facts are always secondary...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> That is a super scary sentiment. Guilt without evidence. Would fit right in in 1984.
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty, just no facts yet but wait... they are coming! If you knew they were coming you would have the facts and could bring them forward. Hoping because you "feel" he is a bad guy and thus guilty is a dangerous precedent.




The Mueller report is somethjng like 400 pages long. You’ve been given a four page summary of it by an AG with an agenda. You honestly think there’s nothing in there that implicates Trump? I’m fairly certain there is and we just haven’t seen it yet.


----------



## FeXL

Excuuuuuuuse me?

What about _Mueller's_ agenda?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’ve been given a four page summary of it by an AG with an agenda.


----------



## Macfury

So, like Wonderings says: you're hoping because you feel... buy you got nothing.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The Mueller report is somethjng like 400 pages long. You’ve been given a four page summary of it by an AG with an agenda. You honestly think there’s nothing in there that implicates Trump? I’m fairly certain there is and we just haven’t seen it yet.


----------



## SINC

Another duplicate. This site has been bad now for a couple of days with data base errors which reject a post, but when you try again suddenly two posts appear.


----------



## SINC

Nothing surprising here is there? I mean Freddie thinks the Notley NDP has done a great job when over 60% of Albertans feel she has ruined Alberta. Going upstream against majority opinion is nothing new, and that includes new math.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Mueller report is somethjng like 400 pages long. You’ve been given a four page summary of it by an AG with an agenda. You honestly think there’s nothing in there that implicates Trump? I’m fairly certain there is and we just haven’t seen it yet.


So let the facts come out. Again you feel it and want it to be true so you are acting on your assumption. Not a healthy way for society to act. Wait for the facts, react to them. Making up facts because you think they will be there but have yet to see them is dangerous. 

Should we all take every allegation as fact as long as we believe it to be true? We could just skip the trial and jump right to sentencing because again we feel it is true and eventually the truth will come out. Sounds absurd but that really is what you are talking about. 

Innocent till proven guilty is as important as free speech.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> We could just skip the trial and jump right to sentencing because again we feel it is true and eventually the truth will come out. Sounds absurd but that really is what you are talking about.


“Sentence first; verdict afterwards." -Queen of Hearts”

― Lewis Carroll

I never thought it was s'pose to be a template...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> So let the facts come out. Again you feel it and want it to be true so you are acting on your assumption. Not a healthy way for society to act. Wait for the facts, react to them. Making up facts because you think they will be there but have yet to see them is dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> Should we all take every allegation as fact as long as we believe it to be true? We could just skip the trial and jump right to sentencing because again we feel it is true and eventually the truth will come out. Sounds absurd but that really is what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent till proven guilty is as important as free speech.




You’re exaggerating. How many people have been indicted so far because of this investigation? Or am I imagining that? Many people who surround Trump and who Trump chose himself are not innocent. Thank about it. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Wait for the report to be released, of course. I think you’ll find he’s not as “totally exonerated” as he claims to be.


----------



## SINC

Rex gets it and cautions against believing MSM in the USA. Good advice for folks who jump to conclusions on Trump like one here does. 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/re...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1553881034


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re exaggerating. How many people have been indicted so far because of this investigation? Or am I imagining that? Many people who surround Trump and who Trump chose himself are not innocent. Thank about it. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Wait for the report to be released, of course. I think you’ll find he’s not as “totally exonerated” as he claims to be.



And how many of those indictments had anything to do with Russian collusion??? I know one of them was for a FATCA form penalty. Hard to do business outside of the US without leaving yourself vulnerable to that one.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> And how many of those indictments had anything to do with Russian collusion??? I know one of them was for a FATCA form penalty. Hard to do business outside of the US without leaving yourself vulnerable to that one.




Did he pay off a porn star and a playmate to avoid having the news of his affairs become a front-burner issue during the campaign? If he did, that’s obstruction of justice right there. You don’t even need the Russian connection to prove he broke the law. And seeing as Michael Cohen is now in jail in part for cutting those cheques and getting paid back for them, that’s one criminal activity that is impossible to deny. You should really stop deifying Trump so much—he ain’t no saint.


----------



## FeXL

Just _whom_ is exaggerating? :yikes:



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re exaggerating.


How many have been indicted with Russian collusion?

A big, fat, zero.



Freddie_Biff said:


> How many people have been indicted so far because of this investigation?


Fine. Precisely how does that make him guilty of anything? Be specific.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Many people who surround Trump and who Trump chose himself are not innocent.


We're the only ones who are...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Th_nk about it._


_

How's about you heed your own advice? You're approaching as bad as The Bigot, spewing crap that doesn't exist. That's not a place you want to go.



Freddie_Biff said:



Wait for the report to be released, of course.

Click to expand...

_


----------



## FeXL

That sounds an awful lot like "he may have" rather than "he's guilty".



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did he pay off a porn star... If he did...


Nobody on these boards, right or left, has ever claimed Trump is a saint. As a matter of fact, I myself have noted any number of times that he is not above reproach & there is much to be critical of. Thing is, the Progs on these boards refuse to be critical of anything real & keep on making $h!t up.

That's the issue...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You should really stop deifying Trump so much—he ain’t no saint.


----------



## Macfury

Your misunderstanding of the issues is stunning. Paying off a porn star is not obstruction of justice.

Cohen cut a deal to plead guilty to violating election laws without a trial. If Dr. G pleads guilty to being your accomplice in a blackmail scheme, it does not make you guilty of blackmail.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did he pay off a porn star and a playmate to avoid having the news of his affairs become a front-burner issue during the campaign? If he did, that’s obstruction of justice right there. You don’t even need the Russian connection to prove he broke the law. And seeing as Michael Cohen is now in jail in part for cutting those cheques and getting paid back for them, that’s one criminal activity that is impossible to deny. You should really stop deifying Trump so much—he ain’t no saint.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Your misunderstanding of the issues is stunning. Paying off a porn star is not obstruction of justice.
> 
> Cohen cut a deal to plead guilty to violating election laws without a trial. If Dr. G pleads guilty to being your accomplice in a blackmail scheme, it does not make you guilty of blackmail.


It's not a scheme if it works each time .................... and the other person does not want what I have on him released to all of ehMacLand.  The proof is in the pudding ............ especially when the pudding is US greenbuck green. :greedy: :greedy:


----------



## Macfury

You'll have a bang-up party after you leave the big house!


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> You'll have a bang-up party after you leave the big house!


Nope ............... arrested .................. out on bail within 30 minutes ............ court case by a favorable jury ..................... innocent ................. case dismissed. :clap: :clap: The judge was not very pleased, but I contributed to his retirement fund, so he accepted the jury's verdict. Gotta love justice here in ehMacLand.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Just saw one of these on the TV news. It’s Trump with—lo and behold—a “45” hat. Macfury, you should really send him a tweet letting him know that he’s really only the 44th president of the USA. I mean, you were pretty adamant about this.


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> Just saw one of these on the TV news. It’s Trump with—lo and behold—a “45” hat. Macfury, you should really send him a tweet letting him know that he’s really only the 44th president of the USA. I mean, you were pretty adamant about this.


4 more years ................ 4 more years .................... 4 more terms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Macfury

He's doing such a good job, I don't want to interrupt him!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just saw one of these on the TV news. It’s Trump with—lo and behold—a “45” hat. Macfury, you should really send him a tweet letting him know that he’s really only the 44th president of the USA. I mean, you were pretty adamant about this.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> He's doing such a good job, I don't want to interrupt him!


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Sadly, he caved on the Special Olympics. That's 18 million that could be spent on the Wall.


----------



## FeXL

That's OK, Dr.G. He'll make that & more back the first year the wall's built!



Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, he caved on the Special Olympics. That's 18 million that could be spent on the Wall.


----------



## FeXL

Yessss!!!

Friday Night Fun Stuff



> Majority of Americans say they're considering re-electing Trump. Given the Shy Trump Voter phenomenon, I'm going to say that they're doing more than "considering" it.
> 
> A majority of registered voters in a new poll say they would consider voting President Trump into a second term.
> 
> Fifty-four percent in the Hill-HarrisX survey released Monday said they would think about voting for Trump, though 46 percent of registered voters said they would not even consider casting a ballot for the president.
> 
> The polling was conducted before a summary of special counsel Robert Mueller's conclusions was released on Sunday by Attorney General William Barr. That summary reported that Mueller did not find evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, a huge win for the president.​


More:



> I expect that number to rise a bit, now that Trump's cleared of the Collusion Delusion, and maybe *he'll pick up some support from independents and even Democrats who didn't vote for him the first time.*


Bold mine.

Good for you, Dr.G! Way to step up to the plate!



Dr.G. said:


> 4 more years ................ 4 more years ....................


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> That's OK, Dr.G. He'll make that & more back the first year the wall's built!


True. Still, it's the principle of the situation, and certainly the optics. He should have announced that the Special Olympics were going ahead ............... so long as Mexico and the children with challenging needs paid for this nation-wide event.


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Yessss!!!
> 
> Good for you, Dr.G! Way to step up to the plate!


Sadly, Trump's bone spurs will prevent him from hitting a real home run, but at least we all can be supportive of his reelection in 2020 ............... and then just doing away with federal elections all together. King Donald the First ................ has a ring to it.


----------



## FeXL

What about _American_ children with challenging needs? Where on the socialist ladder do they rank?



Dr.G. said:


> ...so long as Mexico and the children with challenging needs paid for this nation-wide event.


----------



## FeXL

Actually, he can still knock one out of the park. All he'll need is a pinch runner.

At least he wasn't a conscientious objector who sidelined himself...



Dr.G. said:


> Sadly, Trump's bone spurs will prevent him from hitting a real home run...


----------



## Macfury

And James Clapper finally fingers Obama...





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.








> If it weren’t for President Obama, we might not have done the intelligence community assessment that we did that set off a whole sequence of events which are still unfolding today, notably, special counsel Mueller’s investigation.
> 
> President Obama is responsible for that, and it was he who tasked us to do that intelligence community assessment in the first place. I think it’s an important point when it comes to critiquing President Obama.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And James Clapper finally fingers Obama...


Ouch...


----------



## Dr.G.

FeXL said:


> Actually, he can still knock one out of the park. All he'll need is a pinch runner.
> 
> At least he wasn't a conscientious objector who sidelined himself...


In his final season, Babe Ruth was allowed a free pinch runner, but he had to make it to first base on his own. I doubt Trump could hit a baseball out of any ball park, unless it was of Little League standards. Interesting that there are no accounts of how far he can hit a golf ball. 

Who was the CO that "sidelined himself"?

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## SINC

Really Fox? April Fools is not until tomorrow!

*Fox Refers to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras as ‘Three Mexican Countries’*

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-r...emala-and-honduras-as-three-mexican-countries


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Really Fox? April Fools is not until tomorrow!
> 
> *Fox Refers to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras as ‘Three Mexican Countries’*
> 
> https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-r...emala-and-honduras-as-three-mexican-countries


To be fair, it was the graphics department that did this on a slide, not the hosts.


----------



## Dr.G.

Trump’s self-reported handicap of 2.8 ( the lower the number the better ) is probably a "little off". Jack Nicklaus, winner of a record 18 major golf titles and generally considered one of the greatest golfer in the history of the game, has a handicap of 3.4.

"Tiger Woods scored a 2 and 1 victory over Rory McIlroy on Saturday in the most anticipated match of the 2019 WGC-Dell Technologies Match Play at Austin Country Club in Texas.

Woods, the tournament's No. 13 seed, grabbed a 2-up advantage on fourth-seeded McIlroy with a clean scorecard on the front nine. He closed out the round-of-16 match with a clutch 13-foot par putt on the 17th after back-nine charge by McIlroy.

The 14-time major champion has won this event a record three times, but his last triumph came in 2008."

Trump also once "beat" Tiger Woods in a round of golf .............. so that should prove his ability these days.

Still, whenever he enters a room they play "Hail to the Cheat" .....................


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Creepy Joe s'more.

Say It Isn’t So, Joe!



> Despite the best efforts of the Protectocrat Press, the Creepy Joe Biden memes have finally caught up with him.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now they’re signalling that it’s “time for you to go, Joe“.
> 
> Related: It’s not smelling smelling.
> 
> “WEIRD HOW ALL THIS IS HAPPENING AT ONCE“


Second Biden Accuser Comes Forward: “This is Al Franken all over again”



> A second woman has come forward accusing former Vice President Joe Biden of inappropriate touching at a fundraiser in Greenwich, Connecticut in 2009.
> 
> According to the _Hartford Courant_:
> 
> A Connecticut woman says Joe Biden touched her inappropriately and rubbed noses with her during a 2009 political fundraiser in Greenwich when he was vice president, drawing further scrutiny to the Democrat and his history of unwanted contact with women as he ponders a presidential run
> 
> “It wasn’t sexual, but he did grab me by the head,” Amy Lappos told The Courant Monday. *“He put his hand around my neck and pulled me in to rub noses with me. When he was pulling me in, I thought he was going to kiss me on the mouth.”*​


M'bold.

Ewww...

Related:

Joe Biden's 2020 Ukrainian nightmare: A closed probe is revived



> Two years after leaving office, Joe Biden couldn’t resist the temptation last year to brag to an audience of foreign policy specialists about the time as vice president that he strong-armed Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor.
> 
> In his own words, with video cameras rolling, Biden described how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn’t immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
> 
> ...
> 
> *But Ukrainian officials tell me there was one crucial piece of information that Biden must have known but didn’t mention to his audience: The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden’s younger son, Hunter, as a board member.*


Bold mine.

Not the Russkies? :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bro-Fo s'more!

Ilhan Omar Investigated Over Alleged Personal Use of Campaign Funds



> Freshman Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar will soon hear the results of an investigation that took place quietly over recent months and which looked into her potential campaign-finance violations, according to a Sinclair report Monday.
> 
> *Minnesota state representative Steve Drazkowski, a Republican, filed two complaints against the now-congresswoman last year alleging that she had misused around $6,000 in campaign funds during her time as a state lawmaker.*


Bold mine.

Six grand? What a piker...


----------



## FeXL

Trump Cuts Aid to Latin American Countries In Response To Their Failure to Curb Illegal Immigrant Flow to US



> Bueno.
> 
> The U.S. government cut aid to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras on Saturday after President Donald Trump blasted the Central American countries for sending migrants to the United States and threatened to shutter the U.S.-Mexico border.
> 
> A surge of asylum seekers from the three countries have sought to enter the United States across the southern border in recent days. On Friday, Trump accused the nations of having "set up" migrant caravans and sent them north.
> 
> Trump said there was a "very good likelihood" he would close the border this week if Mexico did not stop immigrants from reaching the United States.​


_Muy_ bueno...

Trump Follows Through On Warning, Orders Aid To Be Cut Off From Central American Countries



> The State Department announced Saturday it was cutting off aid to the Central American countries of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, home to the thousands of immigrants attempting to reach the U.S. illegally.
> 
> “At the Secretary’s instruction, we are carrying out the President’s direction and ending FY 2017 and FY 2018 foreign assistance programs for the Northern Triangle,” a spokesman with the State Department said. “We will be engaging Congress as part of this process.”
> 
> The State Department acknowledged it will need to “engage Congress in the process,” meaning it must win the approval of lawmakers before withholding the estimated $700 million in aid that would otherwise be given to the three Central American countries.
> 
> The announcement comes at a time when the U.S. southern border is witnessing a record volume of illegal immigrants.


----------



## FeXL

Couple of interesting reads on the Electoral College.

Mend, Don’t End, the Electoral College



> Article II of the Constitution mandates the Electoral College for electing our President. November Presidential elections are managed by States and are indirect elections in which Presidential Electors are elected to represent their state and vote for President. With the exception of Maine and Nebraska, the Presidential candidate who wins the most votes in a state wins all the Electors for that state.
> 
> While the Electoral College has worked for over 200 years, the discrepancy of results not matching the popular vote has led 2020 Democratic candidates and others to challenge this system and advocate for basing Presidential elections on the popular vote, getting behind the National Popular Vote (NPV), in which states assign their Electors to the winner of the national popular vote. This superficially appealing idea would subvert the Electoral College, keeping its mechanics while rendering its actions moot, an end-run around the Electoral College.


The Wise Purpose of the Electoral College



> The Electoral College system — especially the original system before it was altered by the 12th Amendment in 1804 — was part of a republican system of government designed by the founders to secure the liberty of the individual: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" (Declaration of Independence). It was the design of the Founders to create a government that would "secure these rights" and thus preserve our liberty. They recognized that a popular government — a democracy — would soon enough begin to subject freedom and rights to a popular vote: here a little, there a little; lie upon lie; pretext upon pretext. With that, freedom would gradually be minimalized, eroded, discarded, and replaced by equality. But it would a dreary, regulated equality of limitations, deprivations, and misery. Ultimately, it would become a fearful tyranny. That's why James Madison warned that the democracies of history "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist #10).


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ an emergency...

MS-13 Illegal Aliens Released by Judge Stab 16-Year-Old



> Dreamers. They dreamed of committing acts of mayhem and bloodshed in a country they were illegally present in.
> 
> When you bring in hundreds of thousands of young males from the most violent countries through a lawless border, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the results. It’s called the Long Island effect. The latest victim of our "unaccompanied alien child" policy and judicial amnesty is a 16-year-old boy who was stabbed almost to death by three "Dreamers" who were members of MS-13, according to local police. They were all released by a federal judge.
> 
> WABC in New York reported yesterday that on Wednesday, a group of illegal aliens believed to be tied to MS-13 attacked a 16-year-old boy and stabbed him in the back outside a Burger King.
> 
> According to police, three suspects were arrested and charged with assault. Here are their profiles:
> 
> * Ramon Arevalo Lopez, 19, entered illegally in December 8, 2016, and was apprehended by DHS in October 2017. He should have been thrown out of the country, but he was released by a federal judge.
> 
> Nobeli Montes Zuniga, 20, and Oscar Canales Molina, 17, "entered the country illegally as unaccompanied minors." Molina was apprehended by the feds in July 2017 but was also released by a federal district judge in November 2017.*​


Bold mine.

Just some kids having fun...

Related:

Oklahoma mother murdered: Suspect is illegal alien deported 5 times



> Sanctuary cities have blood on their hands for not turning over known criminal aliens to ICE for deportation before they commit murder or more mayhem. That was evident in the recent case of Bambi Larson in San Jose, as well as many others in California. But the fact that we don’t hold the line at our border itself is the culprit for all the murders committed by illegal aliens who are able to re-enter the country, even after ICE successfully apprehends and deport them. That is sadly the tragic case of Paige Gomer, who was murdered last week in Canadian County, Oklahoma.


If it saves just _one_ life...

Related, too:

Nearly Half Of California Sheriff Departments Are Resisting The State’s Sanctuary Cities Law



> According to a new study from the Asian Americans Advancing Justice-Asian Law Caucus and the University of Oxford Centre for Criminology-Border Criminologies, California's implementation of its "California Values Act" sanctuary cities law is not going particularly well. In fact, sheriffs in roughly half the state's jurisdictions are actively resisting enforcement of the measure.


Nice to see not all of them have partaken in the kool-aid...


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant



> "It's interesting how a bunch of stories have hit the media within the last couple of weeks about the creepiness of Joe Biden and his touchy, feely hands and hair-sniffing. Witnesses have come forward, so many, in fact, that you'd think the Republicans had nominated him for the Supreme Court. The media didn't have to run these stories. They could have spiked them as they have for other Democrats. *They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, or because they think this is an objectively newsworthy story. No, something else is going on. The media is having these stories fed to them by some other Democrat.* Whoever it is wants to take creepy Joe out early. I'm convinced of this. It might be blotto O'Rourke. It might be Fauxahontas. Probably not criminal Avenatti. Probably not crazy Yang. Could be Buttplug, I suppose. Didn't he raise a record amount of money within the last few days? Perhaps commie Sanders learned his lesson from being schlonged last time and is learning to play hardball. Or, it might even be, get this, crooked Hillary. Yep, I don't count her out yet. I think she's still bitter about losing an election she should have won. Like Sauron trying to seize the One Ring, the presidency was within her grasp, so close that she could taste it, and then it just slipped through her fingers. And it's eating her alive, torturing her soul. I don't care what she's said, I think she wants another shot at it. I can well imagine the creepy Joe campaign crashing and burning because of all the creepy Joe stories and then, surprise, Hillary comes riding in on a white horse announcing her candidacy with all the power of the media, all of the big Democrat donors and bitter clinger NeverTrumpers behind her. I think she, out of all the potential Dem candidates, has the clout and the media contacts to pull a stunt like this."


Bold mine.

Agree. Bill's Wife? Not so sure. But someone who is definitely wanting Groper Joe out of the race.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed. I knew Biden as "Creepy Uncle Joe" for the better part of a decade. Anyone remember how Obama perp-walked Biden into the Rose Garden to announce he was not running in 2016? Both the Dems and the media knew about this stuff and spiked it. Clearly the MSM got their instructions from one of their Dem masters to release the hounds.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump claims that wind farms cause cancer for very Trumpian reasons*

For the uninitiated, President Trump’s comments about wind energy at a Republican fundraising dinner Tuesday night must have seemed like a non sequitur, at best.

“Hillary wanted to put up wind. Wind!” Trump said, referring to the energy policies of his 2016 opponent Hillary Clinton. “If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations, your house just went down 75 percent in value. And they say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one, okay?”​
*Best response on Twitter to Trump's expressed idiocy:*


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Trump claims that wind farms cause cancer for very Trumpian reasons*
> 
> For the uninitiated, President Trump’s comments about wind energy at a Republican fundraising dinner Tuesday night must have seemed like a non sequitur, at best.
> 
> “Hillary wanted to put up wind. Wind!” Trump said, referring to the energy policies of his 2016 opponent Hillary Clinton. “If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations, your house just went down 75 percent in value. And they say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one, okay?”​
> *Best response on Twitter to Trump's expressed idiocy:*


I don't know much about the whole wind turbine thing, all seems like a great idea to me, clean basically free energy outside of installation and maintenance. That being said there are people who complain about health effects they say are caused by wind turbines. 

A google search brought up this website. This was the conclusion from their report. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3653647/
Industrial wind turbines can harm human health if sited too close to residents. Harm can be avoided if IWTs are situated at an appropriate distance from humans. Owing to the lack of adequately protective siting guidelines, people exposed to IWTs can be expected to present to their family physicians in increasing numbers. The documented symptoms are usually stress disorder–type diseases acting via indirect pathways and can represent serious harm to human health. Family physicians are in a position to effectively recognize the ailments and provide an empathetic response. In addition, their contributions to clinical studies are urgently needed to clarify the relationship between IWT exposure and human health and to inform regulations that will protect physical, mental, and social well-being.

Now it is not cancer but it certainly does not sound pleasant.


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Now it is not cancer but it certainly does not sound pleasant.


It's common knowledge that people sited close to windfarms experience a number of related side effects, including some that are debilitating.

Of course, The Bigot chooses to ignore those & reach for the meat of the issue: OrangeManBad!!!

Notice that not once did he ever post anything critical any of the garbage that came out of Barry's mouth, or The Dope's.


----------



## SINC

wonderings said:


> I don't know much about the whole wind turbine thing, all seems like a great idea to me, clean basically free energy outside of installation and maintenance. That being said there are people who complain about health effects they say are caused by wind turbines.
> 
> A google search brought up this website. This was the conclusion from their report.


And then there is this:

*French farmers say wind turbines and solar panels have killed hundreds of their cows*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rbines-solar-panels-killed-hundreds-cows.html


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I don't know much about the whole wind turbine thing, all seems like a great idea to me, clean basically free energy outside of installation and maintenance.


When all of the accounting for capital costs, maintenance and backup power are factored in, "free" doesn't come close to describing it.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> It's common knowledge that people sited close to windfarms experience a number of related side effects, including some that are debilitating.
> 
> Of course, The Bigot chooses to ignore those & reach for the meat of the issue: OrangeManBad!!!
> 
> Notice that not once did he ever post anything critical any of the garbage that came out of Barry's mouth, or The Dope's.


Trump may ride on other people's claims that turbines cause cancer, but good 'ol CM thinks the world will be destroyed by global warming and parrots that nonsense unquestioningly.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trump may ride on other people's claims that turbines cause cancer, but good 'ol CM thinks the world will be destroyed by global warming and parrots that nonsense unquestioningly.


Precisely.

Who is the bigger fool?


----------



## FeXL

I've never understand the fascination Americans seem to have with the POTUS tax returns.

That said, if the bloodsucking IRS hasn't found issues, then what's the big deal?

House Chairman Asks IRS For Six Years Of Trump Taxes



> The Democratic chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee asked the Internal Revenue Service on Wednesday for six years of President Donald Trump’s personal tax returns and those of his businesses.
> 
> In a letter to IRS Commissioner Charles P. Rettig, Massachusetts Rep. Richard Neal said he wanted to investigate whether the IRS is following its policy of auditing the sitting president’s and vice president’s tax returns. (RELATED: House Democrats’ Battle For Trump Taxes Begins)
> 
> *“Little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately,” wrote Neal, who is seeking records for between 2013 and 2018.*


Bold mine.

Nice excuse.



> “This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration,” he said. *“My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship.”*


Bold mine.

Have I got a bridge for you...


----------



## FeXL

Intel Experts: Steele Dossier Should be Investigated as Possible Russian Government Disinformation Operation



> Really?
> 
> There are other theories for how Steele wound up publishing what appears to be false information.
> 
> One possibility floated by some Trump supporters, but that has no evidence, is that Steele or his paymaster, Fusion GPS, fabricated information in the dossier. A more charitable theory is that the dossier is based on half-baked rumors and innuendo provided to Steele through his network of sources within the Russian government.
> 
> But intelligence experts said the intelligence community should be on the lookout for a more nefarious scenario.
> 
> "Any time in the counterintelligence business you believe the U.S. intelligence community was duped by foreigners, that is a prima facie reason a counterintelligence investigation," said David B. Rivkin Jr., a constitutional attorney and intelligence expert who served in the Regan and Bush administrations.
> 
> "By definition, since there was no collusion, the dossier was disinformation, so the intelligence community was misled."​
> No surprise here: Firms connected to Fusion and Christopher Steele were paid $3.8 million by the George Soros-backed, ironically-named group The Democracy Integrity Project.
> 
> This group allegedly provides research to the government?
> 
> *Which parts of the government are relying on George Soros and Fusion GPS for their decisions? I think we need an investigation into that.*


Bold mine.

Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

Three More Women Complain of Gropin' Joe Biden's Previous Pawings and Maulings



> Touch touch sniff sniff.
> 
> The women do not approve of Gropin' Joe's excuse-making video statement.
> 
> You know who did approve of that statement? WaPo "conservative" columnist and eager Joe Biden Voter and Democrat partisan Jen Rubin.
> 
> This is very good. I bet his poll numbers go up.
> — Jennifer Rubin (@JRubinBlogger) April 3, 2019​


Yeah, not so much.


----------



## FeXL

Are the Dems about to Step in a Big Steaming Pile of Covfefe?



> After overreaching on the Trump-Russia collusion attempted coup, rather than admitting they were wrong, humbling apologizing and moving on, Democrats (and I include the media here) are doubling down. They are hellbent on seeing the entire Mueller report, with the House Judiciary Committee voting on party lines to authorize a subpoena of the report without redactions sooner than AG Barr’s promised mid-April release.
> 
> *In their minds, the 400-page report contains all manner of evidence of collusion and obstruction, despite the summary written by Barr and Rosenstein that says otherwise. Note that Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein was easily confirmed by the Senate and has been defended by Democrats since he appointed Robert Mueller to be special counsel, and yet now they apparently believe he is lying.
> 
> If Rosenstein and Barr were misrepresenting the report in their summary letter, one would think Mueller and his partisan team of attorneys would be outraged and speaking out to correct the record. Yet they are silent.* This is the same gang that had no problem evidently leaking advance notice of Roger Stone’s commando-style arrest to CNN so they could be on site filming everything. If Barr and Rosenstein weren’t truthful in their summary, why isn’t CNN reporting on “unnamed officials” who dispute the summary?


Bold mine.

Nails it.


----------



## FeXL

From AoS/JJ Sefton's Morning Report:



> US WEEKLY JOBLESS CLAIMS HIT 50-YEAR LOW​
> And...
> 
> BLUE COLLAR WORKERS ENJOY WAGE HIKES THANKS TO "SHORTAGE" OF FOREIGN WORKERS​
> *Note to Mr. Obama, Chiquita Khruschev AOC and all the other assorted nuts, flakes and fruits of the Democrat-Socialist variety: you definitely did not build that.* It's exclusively the work of President Trump his economic policies and to some extent the attempt to cut off the flow of low wage foreigners supplanting the American worker despite the best efforts of the Chamber of Commerce to do otherwise. Just to cut off any troll or other vermin who attempts to refute this, Obama himself publicly and repeatedly stated that America's best days were behind it, so get used to the decline and fall of our standard of living. He even attempted to mock candidate Trump's promises to make the American economy great again - many now largely kept as highlighted by this editorial and the lives most of you are now actually living - by spouting some drivel about "what's he gonna do, wave a magic wand?!"
> 
> Well, in fact he did. It's called free market capitalism that lets businesses, entrepreneurs and people keep significantly more of their money (NB: it's not the government's money first... yet) by lowering taxes and tax rates which spurs growth in the form of economic activity and investment. January 20th, 2017 was not the idiotic fantasy of 8 years earlier "when the planet cooled and the seas began to lower" but the reality of when the economy fired up and the rising tide lifted all boats.
> 
> So, yes, well get to all the meshugas in due course, but I want to end the week on these extremely positive notes. The insanity of the Democrat-Left I think will wind up devouring them, as Conrad Black and others posit come November of 2020. But the best way to defeat them is for this president to deliver on his promises to restore the American economic way of life for every citizen. And in order to really do that effectively he must deliver on the other pillar of his candidacy and presidency which is to restore our national sovereignty with secure borders and sane immigration policy. That touches upon the second highlighted headline and link in the Economy section, and to quote from that Breitbart piece:
> 
> ...Blue collar and middle class wages, overall, have jumped four percent over the last 12 months thanks to Trump's tightened labor market, Goldman Sachs analysis has revealed.
> 
> "Wage growth has picked up sharply in the bottom half of the wage distribution... The solid wage growth suggests a relatively optimistic outlook on consumption," the analysis reported.
> 
> White House adviser Ivanka Trump has routinely touted the benefits to the working class of the president's preferred low-immigration, higher-wage economy rather than the corporate interest and donor class' preferred low wage economic model with endless illegal and legal immigration.
> 
> "[Large and small business employers are now competing for workers] in a tight labor market," Ivanka Trump previously said. "A tight labor market is good. Wages are finally going up for the American worker."
> 
> While wages continue to rise for America's blue collar and working class, soaring levels of illegal immigration expected to the U.S. threaten wage gains for U.S. workers, as companies could enjoy a saturated labor market by the end of the year...​


Bold mine.

The two links referred to above:

US weekly jobless claims drop to the lowest level since 1969

Blue Collar Workers Enjoy Wage Hikes Thanks to ‘Shortage’ of Foreigners

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Did the FBI Set Up the Alleged "Russian Contacts" of Flynn and Papadopolous and Later Misrepresent Them to a Court as Having Been Arranged by Their Targets Rather Than Themselves?



> So his series of claims are now:
> 
> An FBI attache suggested he contact Misfud.
> 
> Misfud, out of the blue, informs him that Russia may have Hillary emails. (Something _everyone_ was speculating about at the time -- hardly some kind of juicy RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE SECRET.)
> 
> He also says that Misfud himself has FBI, not Kremlin, ties.
> 
> Then Papadoplous mentions _Misfud's_ gossip about Hillary's emails to an Australian diplomat named Alexander Downer, and Downer reports him to the FBI, and suddenly Papadopoulos is a spy being investigated by the FBI due the prompting of 1, and FBI attache telling him to take a meeting with Misfud, 2, the FBI asset Misfud dropping some random garbage gossip in his lap, and then him telling that to a 3, an Australian diplomat who's also in close contact with the FBI.
> 
> Sheesh! The only thing that would make this look more like a frame-up with the FBI providing the garbage gossip it would later claim to be Trafficking in Russian Intel would be if, say, Josef Misfud actually knew the diplomat Downer.
> 
> Which... he just might.


----------



## FeXL

Charles Grassley: Robert Mueller Completely Misrepresented Trump Campaign Email, Butchering the Missive So That It Suggested a Willingness to Consider Talking to Russia, When the Full Email Stated They Did Not Want to Talk to Russia



> This is just further proof of Jonah "Both Sides" Goldberg's thesis that "both sides" are wrong about the Russia hoax.
> 
> Chuck Ross reporting for the Daily Caller:
> 
> * Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley accused the special counsel's office of mischaracterizing Trump campaign emails in a way that suggested Trump advisers were eager to meet with Russians.
> 
> In a newly released letter from 2017, Grassley accused Robert Mueller’s team of feeding "speculation and innuendo" in court filings in 2017 in the case against George Papadopoulos.
> 
> The letter takes on new significance in the wake of reports that Mueller prosecutors were upset over Attorney General William Barr's characterization of the findings of the 22-month long probe.*


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ an emergency...

Report: Nearly 20 Percent of Inmates in Federal Prisons Are Criminal Aliens



> According to a new report, criminal aliens currently make up nearly 20 percent of the population in the U.S. Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) system -- a total of 34,776.
> 
> David Olen Cross, a Salem, Ore., crime and immigration researcher, looked at the number of foreign nationals in the U.S. BOP system based on the most recent federal report. As of March 30, 2019, there were 179,761 inmates incarcerated in federal prisons across the U.S. Their countries of origin, according to the report, are:
> 
> Mexico 21,668 inmates, 12.1 percent;
> 
> Colombia 1,633 inmates, 0.9 percent;
> 
> Dominican Republic 1,425 inmates, 0.8 percent;
> 
> Cuba 1,169 inmates, 0.7 percent;
> 
> Other/unknown countries 8,881 inmates, 4.9 percent;
> 
> United States 144,985 inmates, 80.7 percent;


----------



## FeXL

Interesting questions.

Four Questions for Those Who Oppose the Electoral College



> Have you heard? The Electoral College is bad. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and others support its abolition. On March 28, Delaware became the thirteenth state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) in which members agree to award their electoral votes to the candidate who wins the national popular vote. The compact goes into effect only when the combined number of electoral votes of member states reaches 270, assuring their candidate victory. Legislation affixing New Mexico to the NPVIC sits on the desk of Governor Michelle Grisham (D). She's expected to sign it, giving the coalition 189 votes.
> 
> The debate surrounding this issue is another example of proponents avoiding the salient points. I pose the following four questions to those who would undo the electoral college system, with the goal of promoting clarity and focusing on the nub of the matter.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting article on American teacher salaries.

Kamala Harris’ Hair-Raising, Tax-Raising Plan



> Yes, teachers do make less than some other professionals, but there are valid reasons for that.
> 
> According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, teachers work on average 1,398 hours per year, whereas accountants work 2,074 hours per year, almost 50 percent more than teachers. Lawyers (2,036 hours per year) and dentists (1,998 hours per year) also work many more hours than teachers.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the narcissist-in-chief...

Obama shatters previous record, mentions himself 467 times in one speech in Berlin



> So, what’s a comparatively young (age 57) man with decades of life ahead to do to compensate? Self-reflection and personal growth are out of the question, of course (this is Barack Obama, after all, the man who claimed to better at everything than his aides charged with speech-writing, economic policy and much more), so it appears that defensive ego boosting is his chosen course.


----------



## FeXL

Nielsen Out at DHS



> At PJ Media's Morning Briefing, second and third stories.
> 
> She did not go "willingly," it is reported, but was voluntold to resign.
> 
> I never knew what to make of her -- publicly, she seemed to say almost all of the right things, but then I'd hear she was resisting Trump's orders behind the scenes.
> 
> ...
> 
> A leftwing organization has begun a campaign to blacklist Nielsen and any other Trump official who had anything to do with "separating kids from their parents at the border" from getting any corporate jobs.
> 
> 1, wow, what a new idea from the left, blacklisting people from being employed.
> 
> *2, no Obama officials will be blacklisted? Obama had the same policy, because it's actually US law.*


Bold mine.

Curious, that...


----------



## FeXL

ISIS-Inspired Terrorist Plotted to Run Over National Harbor Pedestrians with a U-Haul



> On Monday, federal authorities charged a Maryland man who had stolen a truck and planned to use it in a terrorist attack. Prosecutors say the man was inspired by the Islamic State (ISIS).
> 
> Rondell Henry, a 28-year-old man from Germantown, Md., allegedly stole a U-Haul truck and planned to drive over pedestrians in National Harbor.
> 
> "He said he wanted to carry out a Nice-style attack," a law enforcement official told NBC News . The official was referring to a 2016 ISIS-claimed terror truck attack that killed 86 people in Nice, France.
> 
> "I was just going to keep driving and driving and driving. I wasn't going to stop," Henry told the FBI, according to charging papers filed Monday.
> 
> Authorities found an "image of gun-wielding ISIS fighters, the ISIS flag, and the Pulse nightclub shooter" who killed 49 people at the Orlando nightclub in 2016, ABC News reported.
> 
> *The Justice Department said Henry harbored "hatred" for non-Muslims.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Who Commits Most of the World’s Extremist Violence?

Let's go right to the punchline:



> The _Wall Street Journal_, citing the U.S. Extremist Crime Database, reports that the frequency of violent hate crime in the United States has been about the same for 50 years. White supremacy is insane and immoral, and it may be a significant threat. But it doesn’t account for anywhere near the preponderance of global extremist violence, though one might get a different impression from recent coverage.


Oh, and just in case there are some of you who are so thick you can't figger it out: The Religion Of Peace.


----------



## FeXL

Rasmussen: Trump's Approval Rating Rises to 53% With Public Giving Him High Marks for His "Not Collusioney" Style



> I was just being silly about that last part, though I imagine having that conspiracy theory monkey off his back is contributing to his rise.
> 
> Here's Rasmussen's write up. Note the graph comparing Obama's and Trump's approval ratings through each of their tours in office. Obama was at 46% at this point in his presidency.


----------



## Macfury

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/10/pete-buttigieg-conservative-praise-1264075

Always amazed to see the MSM include people like David Brooks as a conservative. The guy begs his progressive masters to give him a pat on the head and a cookie.


----------



## FeXL

Guess they ignored the warning sound of her dentures clacking...

100 Days into 2nd Speakership, Nancy Pelosi Loses Control of House Floor, Withdraws Budget Bill Before Vote



> House Democratic leaders shelved a plan to pass a bill increasing budget caps for the next two fiscal years amid infighting between their caucus’s liberal and moderate wings. Liberals demanded $33 billion more for domestic social programs in 2020 as the price of their support, while some moderates opposed the bill over its lack of spending cuts in mandatory entitlement programs to offset the impact on the deficit. Republicans slammed the House majority for failing to produce a budget so far this year.​


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bro-Fo s'more!

Ilhan Omar: CAIR Formed Because Muslims Were Targeted After ‘Some People Did Something’ on 9/11



> Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) referred to the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, as a day in which *“some people did something”* during her keynote address at a private fundraiser for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) of Greater Los Angeles last March.


Emphasis mine.

:yikes:


----------



## Macfury

Democrat Maxine Waters chairs the committee that oversees student loans. She began to excoriate bankers during a committee meeting for their treatment of students to whom they loaned money. The bankers had to remind her that she was responsible for the loans, as Obama nationalized them. Embarrassing.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/10/maxine-waters-pin-student-debt-banks-forgets-nationalized/


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Embarrassing.


Good old Max Scene...


----------



## FeXL

AG Barr: "I Think Spying Did Occur" Against Trump Campaign, and I Need to Investigate If It Was Justified or Not



> Obama, you might have heard, ran a scandal-free administration.
> 
> Except for the matter of weaponizing the intelligence community and DOJ and FBI to spy on a rival campaign in a move that makes Watergate look like a college lark.
> 
> Attorney General William Barr dropped a bombshell Wednesday, telling a group of senators that he believes spying against the Trump campaign did take place in 2016.
> 
> "I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal," Barr said during an exchange with Democratic New Hampshire Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee.
> 
> Shaheen asked in a follow-up whether Barr believed the FBI spied on the Trump team.
> 
> "You're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred?" Shaheen asked.
> 
> "I think spying did occur. Yes, I think spying did occur. But the question is whether it was predicated, adequately predicated," Barr said.​


Related:

Barack Obama’s Former White House Counsel Expects To Be Indicted on Federal Corruption Charges



> The _Wall Street Journal_‘s Byron Tau and Aruna Viswantha reported late Wednesday:
> 
> Former Obama White House counsel Greg Craig expects to be indicted in the coming days on charges stemming from work he performed for Ukraine in 2012, Mr. Craig’s legal team said. Mr. Craig has refused to accept a plea deal, and the matter could be presented to a grand jury for indictment as soon as Thursday, people familiar with the matter say. A spokesman for the Justice Department declined to comment.​
> The _New York Times_‘ Kenneth Vogel, in his own report on the looming likely indictment of the former senior Obama official, writes that *this “stemmed from” Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.*


The iron...


----------



## FeXL

Second Hassan Staffer Allegedly Helped Aide Steal Massive Amounts Of Senate Data



> * A former Senate IT aide to Sen. Maggie Hassan, Jackson Cosko, admitted he stole tens of thousands of documents, credit card numbers, Social Security numbers and the contents of the entire network drive from the New Hampshire Democrat.
> * Cosko allegedly used stolen private data about senators to “doxx” Republicans during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings.
> * In a plea deal, Cosko — whom Hassan fired for other misconduct before the theft — said he worked with an accomplice who helped him gain access and wiped his fingerprints.
> * A court case has been opened against Samantha DeForest-Davis, a former Hassan aide who a source with knowledge of the situation said is the alleged accomplice.


----------



## FeXL

Further on some vague "something" done by "some people."

NY Democrats Ignore Omar’s 9/11 Comment



> New York Democrats in Congress are staying silent after Rep. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) called the 9/11 terror attacks "something" done by "some people."
> 
> Speaking to the Council on American Islamic Relations at a March fundraiser, Omar discussed the difficulties Muslims faced. She claimed they saw their civil liberties infringed upon after the Sept. 11, 2001, al Qaeda attacks. In those comments, she referred to the events as "some people [who] did something" and praised CAIR for organizing in response.


My FDNY son’s death on 9/11 was more than just ‘something’



> What Congresswoman Ilhan Omar said about Sept. 11 was disgraceful.
> 
> She dismissed thousands of people being murdered like it was an everyday occurrence when she said “some people did something.”
> 
> *On 9/11/01 my son, firefighter Jimmy Riches was murdered along with close to 3,000 American citizens by Muslim terrorists.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Ukraine collaborator Democrat Greg Craig.

Former Obama White House Counsel (And Clinton's Impeachment Defense Lawyer) Greg Craig Indicted for Lying About His Work as an Unregistered Foreign Agent for the Ukraine



> He was indicted for withholding material facts and misleading regulators about whether he should have registered as a foreign agent under FARA [Foreign Agents Registration Act] for his work for Manafort's client in Ukraine.
> 
> Former Obama White House counsel Greg Craig was charged with making false statements on Thursday in connection with the failures by his former law firm to report its work for powerful clients in Ukraine.​
> FARA is one of the most violated, and yet least enforced, laws among the DC set.
> 
> But the feds started a new precedent in going like gangbusters after Manafort.
> 
> How can they now roll over for Greg Craig, who was servicing the same PRO-RUSSIAN client as Manafort?


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bro-Fo & "something" done by "some people."

NY Post, Rep. Dan Crenshaw Call Out the Terrorism-Friendly Ilhan Omar for Saying That "Some People Did Something" on 9/11



> Dan Crenshaw objected to this description of the worst single act of terrorism in history, and Mrs. Brother responded by playing, get this, the "Islamaphobia" card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First Member of Congress to ever describe terrorists who killed thousands of Americans on 9/11 as “some people who did something”.
> 
> Unbelievable. https://t.co/IKtoZWWmIT
> — Dan Crenshaw (@DanCrenshawTX) April 9, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is dangerous incitement, given the death threats I face. I hope leaders of both parties will join me in condemning it.
> 
> My love and commitment to our country and that of my colleagues should never be in question. We are ALL Americans! pic.twitter.com/foTZMpiZKv
> — Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) April 10, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I never called you un-American.
> 
> 2. I did not incite any violence against you.
> 
> 3. You described an act of terrorism on American soil that killed thousands of innocent lives as “some people did something.”
> 
> It’s still unbelievable, as is your response here. https://t.co/SsfWYepOS1
> — Dan Crenshaw (@DanCrenshawTX) April 10, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> *One of the many failings of the Republican party has been its embrace of big business at the expense of the rule of law. Special tax breaks for individual companies, onerous regulation that favors large over small, and a host of other behaviors, all bought and paid for by lobbyists and the Chamber of Commerce and industry groups have conspired to penalize average Americans and small business that is one of the primary drivers of growth in our economy.*
> 
> The most obvious and disgusting example is the desire of the captive Republican party to open the Southern floodgates and allow unfettered immigration while also giving permanent status to the 10s of millions already here illegally, all in the name of depressing wages and contorting the labor market.
> 
> But this is pretty vomit-inducing too. That the IRS doesn't already have simple on-line systems that would allow most Americans to calculate and file their taxes is a pathetic reflection of the stupidity and sloth of government. Add in the craven and corrupt desire of Congress to protect its donor class and we have this ridiculous bill.
> 
> Congress Is About to Ban the Government From Offering Free Online Tax Filing. Thank TurboTax.


Bold mine.

In full agreement.


----------



## FeXL

Poll: 58% of Voters Approve of Trump's Handling of Economy, Mish



> Well, the economy's no big deal, you know.
> 
> Voters' attitudes about the economy will be the driving force in the next presidential election, according to the first Georgetown Institute of Politics and Public Service "Battleground Poll" of the 2020 cycle.
> 
> ...
> 
> While President Trump’s overall unfavorable rating has remained steady at 55 percent since he announced his candidacy in 2015, 58 percent of voters approve of the job he has done on the economy.
> 
> Democratic pollster Celinda Lake of Lake Research Partners said the Democratic Party will need to focus on the economy or "it will find itself in serious jeopardy for the 2020 election."​


----------



## FeXL

Not a surprise to anybody paying attention.

Democrats Can’t Win Based on Their Ideas, So They Want to Change the Rules of the Game



> One of the biggest criticisms of President Trump is that he violates so-called “democratic norms.” Leading Democrats, think tank officials, and newspaper columnists have continuously wrung their hands over how everything from Trump’s tweets to his legitimate criticisms of the mainstream media somehow threatens American governing institutions. “Trump has assailed essential institutions and traditions…” claims a left-wing outfit in a report issued this year.
> 
> Yet these same groups are conspicuously silent on Democrats’ blatant and unapologetic attempts to subvert U.S. founding institutions in their lust for power that they cannot achieve through the existing governing framework. In recent weeks, Democrats have called for abolishing the country’s constitutional voting system, allowing children to vote, and packing the Supreme Court.
> 
> Still smarting from Hillary Clinton’s election loss, where she received more total votes than Trump, leading Democrats are calling to convert the nation’s constitutional voting system into a popular vote. Eight Democratic presidential primary candidates want to dump the electoral college, while others are open to the idea. “My view is that every vote matters,” said Democratic presidential primary candidate Elizabeth Warren last month. “And the way we can make that happen is that we can have national voting and that means get rid of the electoral college.”


More:



> *Under a popular vote system, a Democrat could win by never campaigning outside the Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago metro areas. If you thought the heartland was overlooked by politicians now, just wait until the votes there don’t matter under a popular vote system.*


Bold mine.

You mean like the prairies in Canada?


----------



## FeXL

Former Trump Campaign Adviser Michael Caputo: _The FBI Paid a Russian to Offer Me Phony "Dirt" on Hillary Clinton In Order to Frame Me in Their Spying Operation_



> Spying? What spying?
> 
> Former Trump 2016 Campaign Adviser Michael Caputo told FOX Business' Trish Regan Opens a New Window. that a Russian FBI informant approached him offering dirt on Democratic presidential candidate Opens a New Window. Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election.
> 
> "I was approached by a Russian national FBI informant in late May of 2016. He wanted to give me some dirt on Hillary Clinton. I turned it down," Caputo said on Tuesday.
> 
> Caputo said he only learned the individual was an FBI informant after he sat down with investigators for Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
> 
> "When they asked me about him, I told them what I knew. By their faces I knew that it was someone that had been sent to me. It was after my interrogation with the Mueller team that I went out, hired private investigators and found out the guy had used a fake name, Henry Greenberg, and that he had been working with the FBI for 17 years."
> 
> Caputo also said he tried to give this information to Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz.​
> The FBI and perhaps the CIA ran multiple fake undercover spies at Trump associates, often conducting these spying operations on foreign soil.


Related.



> The transcript of say 2 of former FBI general counsel James Baker's congressional testimony is out. FBI lawyers told Baker not to disclose all the different ways Rod Rosenstein and Andy McCabe contemplated removing Trump from office after Comey's firing.


----------



## FeXL

Wait. Wha...???

Obama says he's from KENYA


----------



## FeXL

Perhaps this will remind Bro-Fo just who did what...


----------



## FeXL

Beto O’Rourke Calls on US to Pay Latin American Countries to Curb Migration



> Former congressman and current Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke has come up with an unexpected solution to the migration problem: the US must pour taxpayer money into countries where migrants originate from — predominantly the "Northern Triangle" of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras — to make their lives cozy enough to dissuade them from going to the United States.


Drugs...


----------



## FeXL

Stunning...

Disgraced New Yorker Fact-Checker: ‘When Did The Memory Of 9/11 Become Sacred?’



> Back in July of last year, Talia Lavin was fired from her job as a fact-checker for the New Yorker after she misidentified a wounded Marine's elbow tattoo as a Nazi "Iron Cross," and convinced much of the left that the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency had hired an actual white supremacist to work on their abuse task force.
> 
> Saturday, she was at it again. The self-described "expert" on white supremacy, in an effort to defend Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), who flippantly referred to the September 11, 2001 terror attacks in a speech as "some people did something," Lavin asked whether we're supposed to believe that 9/11 is "sacred."


----------



## FeXL

_60 Minutes_ gives Nancy Pelosi a softball interview — and exposes a weakling



> Nancy Pelosi was interviewed on 60 Minutes last night, and in yuckily flattering terms. "She's the most powerful woman in American political history," Lesley Stahl intoned at the opener. Pelosi got lots of airtime after it to natter on about her leadership, her being a woman, her denials of being a socialist, her supposed historic role, and her efforts to control her unruly party.
> 
> The only thing one can conclude is that _60 Minutes_ gave her a lot of space for spin control, wittingly or not. *But the real conclusion is that the Democratic leader is a weakling.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Pelosi rips AOC, says her posse in Congress is ‘like five people’



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just sent some more shade to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
> 
> In a “60 Minutes” interview, correspondent Lesley Stahl pointed out the different groups within the House Democratic caucus. “You have these wings — AOC and her group on one side,” Stahl said.
> 
> “That’s like five people,” Pelosi interrupted.


Shhhhh... They're fighting each other. :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Time to address this, Don.

Every American Taxpayer Would Owe Almost $700,000 to Pay Down Worsening U.S. Debt



> The federal government’s overall financial condition worsened by $4.5 trillion in 2018, according to an analysis from government financial watchdog Truth In Accounting (TIA).
> 
> With assets of $3.84 trillion, the federal government’s unfunded liabilities and debt totals $108.94 trillion, leaving a debt burden of $105 trillion.
> 
> "Our elected officials have made repeated financial decisions that have left the federal government with a debt burden of $105 trillion, including unfunded Social Security and Medicare promises," TIA states. "That equates to a $696,000 burden for every federal taxpayer."


----------



## FeXL

Me, too!

GOP Senators really want to see a ‘highly classified’ FBI memo about the Hillary Clinton investigation



> The Republican chairmen of three Senate committees are pressing Attorney General William Barr for details about “highly classified information” that the FBI declined to investigate as part of the Hillary Clinton email probe.
> 
> The FBI drafted a memo in May 2016 saying that the information was “necessary” to complete the investigation into Clinton’s handling of classified information on her private email server, according to the Republicans.
> 
> But as the Justice Department inspector general found in a report released last year, the FBI declined to take up the matter before closing the Clinton investigation in July 2016.
> 
> The trio of senators want to know why.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

How did you know Trump said that?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How did you know Trump said that?




Because he did. It’s in the Mueller report. You know, the document he liked so much a couple of weeks ago before reading it?


----------



## Macfury

The report said that somebody else claimed Trump said it. There is no verification.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Because he did. It’s in the Mueller report. You know, the document he liked so much a couple of weeks ago before reading it?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The report said that somebody else claimed Trump said it. There is no verification.


Yeah, you keep telling yourself that Macfury. Almost anybody has more credibility than Trump these days insofar as telling the truth goes.


----------



## Macfury

Did I miss something? Weren't you going to explain why you knew the quote was true?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, you keep telling yourself that Macfury. Almost anybody has more credibility than Trump these days insofar as telling the truth goes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I suppose you don’t think he used the word “bull****e” either to describe the Mueller report. Someone else reported him saying it and he tweeted it, but someone else must have tweeted it on his behalf. You are naive, Macfury. 












> President Trump sought Friday to discredit portions of the special counsel’s report in which others described behavior that could be seen as obstruction of justice, calling their assertions “total bull****.”


 https://www.washingtonpost.com/pol...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2085d9322eec


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The report said that somebody else claimed Trump said it. There is no verification.


For those interested in the context... the quote was included in notes kept by by counsel Jody Hunt, present in the Oval Office with Trump, Sessions and Don McGahn during interviews for a new FBI director.

It's found on page 78 of this searchable PDF of the (redacted) Mueller Report (larger discussion here, among many other sources).

Of course, this doesn't address MacFury's contention of _photos (or recordings) or it didn't happen!_ :lmao:

Jody Hunt, in case you were wondering, is no Trump hater: he is currently the head of the U.S. Justice Department's civil division. His notes from that Oval Office meeting were subpoenaed by Mueller.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> For those interested in the context... the quote was included in notes kept by by counsel Jody Hunt, present in the Oval Office with Trump, Sessions and Don McGahn during interviews for a new FBI director.
> 
> 
> 
> It's found on page 78 of this searchable PDF of the (redacted) Mueller Report (larger discussion here, among many other sources).
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, this doesn't address MacFury's contention of _photos (or recordings) or it didn't happen!_ :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> Jody Hunt, in case you were wondering, is no Trump hater: he is currently the head of the U.S. Justice Department's civil division. His notes from that Oval Office meeting were subpoenaed by Mueller.




Doesn’t matter! It’s just hearsay! Macfury says so!


----------



## Macfury

First, Trump's comments as described, related to the drag that special counsels place on administrations, not an admission of wrongdoing. 



> Everyone tells me if you get one of these special counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won't be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.


Second, Hunt wrote Sessions' recusal that cleared the way for the Mueller investigation. Maybe a conservative, but no friend of the president.



CubaMark said:


> For those interested in the context... the quote was included in notes kept by by counsel Jody Hunt, present in the Oval Office with Trump, Sessions and Don McGahn during interviews for a new FBI director.
> 
> It's found on page 78 of this searchable PDF of the (redacted) Mueller Report (larger discussion here, among many other sources).
> 
> Of course, this doesn't address MacFury's contention of _photos (or recordings) or it didn't happen!_ :lmao:
> 
> Jody Hunt, in case you were wondering, is no Trump hater: he is currently the head of the U.S. Justice Department's civil division. His notes from that Oval Office meeting were subpoenaed by Mueller.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Doesn’t matter! It’s just hearsay! Macfury says so!


In plain English not admissible in a trial, and also lacking context. 

Anyone who followed the Bundy trials is well aware of how twisted the American judicial system has become. Even if Trump is as ignorant as he appears, I am sure he fully understands that the combined weight of the FBI and all the rest of the 3 letter acronyms can destroy any target, no matter how innocent. You can bet thoughts of a weaponized judicial process were in his mind when the comment was made.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

You, lecturing _anybody_, on context?

The iron...



CubaMark said:


> For those interested in the context...


----------



## FeXL

Related:

Nixon, Marini, and the Russia Hoax (Interesting read. Learned a few things about the Nixon event.)

Chris Buskirk: William Barr Was Right and the Media and Ruling Class Were Wrong About Everything. It's Time for Them to Admit It.

Ohhhh: New York Times Reports That It's Very Possible the Entire Steele Dossier Was Itself Kremlin Disinformation

Leftwing Partisan Propaganda Media: "Collusion? Never Heard of It."


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

'Bout right...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Man, you've got to really be part of the Establishment to see the media playing the part of the "reasonable people."


----------



## FeXL

Trump Orders Crackdown on Visa Overstays



> Can't wait to hear the Democrats' objection to this.
> 
> When you talk about the wall, they say "But more people are here illegally due to visa overstays!"
> 
> Implying that they really want to crack own on visa overstays.
> 
> Spoiler alert: they don't, and they'll begin complaining about this in about five minutes.


Yeppers.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Trump Orders Crackdown on Visa Overstays
> 
> 
> 
> Yeppers.


An interesting dilemma. They know when someone came in, but without the cooperation of the Mexican government they really have no way of knowing when, or if, someone has left. Sounds good in a sound bite, but the logistics could be a nightmare.

I can however see it being used as an excuse for widening the government intrusion into the privacy of American citizens.


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> An interesting dilemma. They know when someone came in, but without the cooperation of the Mexican government they really have no way of knowing when, or if, someone has left. Sounds good in a sound bite, but the logistics could be a nightmare.
> 
> I can however see it being used as an excuse for widening the government intrusion into the privacy of American citizens.



Maybe they just need to put a system in place where those staying on a visa need to basically "sign out" when leaving the country. Failure to do so would make them ineligible for future visa's or visits. I am sure a simple database system could be put in place that would then flag those who had not signed out by the date they were supposed to.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Maybe they just need to put a system in place where those staying on a visa need to basically "sign out" when leaving the country. Failure to do so would make them ineligible for future visa's or visits. I am sure a simple database system could be put in place that would then flag those who had not signed out by the date they were supposed to.


If the long gun registry and FATCA debacles have taught us nothing else, they have taught us that there is no such thing as a reliable, or even usable government database.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> Maybe they just need to put a system in place where those staying on a visa need to basically "sign out" when leaving the country. .


This is the procedure for foreigners who are permanent residents in Mexico. Before we leave the airport / border checkpoint, we must visit a kiosk of the Federal Migration Institute to provide details of our travel.


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> If the long gun registry and FATCA debacles have taught us nothing else, they have taught us that there is no such thing as a reliable, or even usable government database.


Oh I agree, Government agencies are the only ones that can make things difficult and cost 5x as much as it should, still it should be a simple thing. As CubaMark as mentioned this type of thing is already done in Mexico. Really seems like a no brainer and an easy way to keep track of incoming visitors. 

Once you are over due and have not checked in, red flag, warrant out, arrest and deport.

Sounds like it would make it way easier to keep track of visitors.


----------



## FeXL

Jobless Claims Fall to Lowest Level in 49 1/2 Years



> I thought Trump was going to destroy the US economy if he didn't follow Bush's policies (which got us an anemic growth rate and flatline wage growth), strong-form archlibertarianism that no one has ever voted in favor of, and warmed-over Nostalgia Economics.
> 
> The number of Americans filing applications for unemployment benefits fell to more than a 49-1/2-year low last week.
> 
> The data pointed to sustained strength in the economy.​


----------



## FeXL

Lock her up!!!

Former FBI Official Admits Hillary Clinton Emails Were Found in Obama White House



> A former top FBI official has admitted under oath that a repository of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's email records was obtained by the Obama White House and housed in the Executive Office of the President.
> 
> This astonishing confirmation, made under oath by the FBI, shows that the Obama FBI had to go to President Obama’s White House office to find emails that Hillary Clinton tried to destroy or hide from the American people. https://t.co/0Hv5fMdmQQ
> — Tom Fitton (@TomFitton) April 23, 2019​
> Conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch recently coaxed the admission out of the former assistant director of the FBI Counterintelligence Division, Bill Priestap, as part of a court-ordered discovery regarding Clinton’s unauthorized email server.


More:



> *“No wonder Hillary Clinton has thus far skated – Barack Obama is implicated in her email scheme.”*


Bold mine.


----------



## Beej

A long read on U.S. immigration. Raises a number of good points, but it's difficult to see how useful policy reform happens when one side is careening towards "open borders" as a policy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...frum-how-much-immigration-is-too-much/583252/



> If you grew up in the 1950s, the 1960s, or even the 1970s, heavy immigration seemed mostly a chapter from the American past, narrated to the nostalgic strains of The Godfather or Fiddler on the Roof.





> “How to help those displaced by conflict?” and “How should we select our future fellow Americans?” need to be seen as different questions requiring different sets of answers.


----------



## FeXL

Social Security Trust Fund to be Depleted in 2035; Agency Will No Longer Be Able to Pay Full Benefits Beginning That Year



> Well, the public had a choice between acting to fix this or letting it fester into an emergency and letting groups -- old people expecting full benefits, and young people not wanting to be taxed more -- fight it out when the emergency came.
> 
> We chose the latter.
> 
> We'll have to see how that works out for everybody.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Where's your cartoon about Uranium One, CM? You are such a partisan hack


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Where's your cartoon about Uranium One, CM? You are such a partisan hack


It's different when Progs do it... XX)


----------



## FeXL

Good!

Massachusetts Judge Charged in Federal Court With Conspiracy, Obstruction of Justice, and Perjury for Helping an Illegal Immigrant Evade ICE in Her Courtroom



> Another court officer was charged as well.
> 
> A judge who allegedly helped an illegal immigrant escape out the basement door of Newton District Court last spring, and the court officer who assisted, were charged in federal court today with conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury.
> 
> U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling announced the indictments against Judge Shelley M. Richmond Joseph and former Court Officer Wesley MacGregor.
> 
> Judge Joseph, the indictment alleges, allowed an illegal immigrant wanted by immigration officers to leave Newton District Court without being detained for possible deportation.
> 
> "I'm not gonna allow them to come in here," the judge is alleged to have told the man’s defense attorney. She was basically keeping an ICE officer on the outside of the courtroom....
> 
> The judge, federal prosecutors are alleging, allowed Jose Medina-Perez to walk after being arrested by Newton police on drug charges last April. He was also wanted for drunken driving out of Pennsylvania and ICE had a detainer on him.​


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Where's your cartoon about Uranium One, CM? You are such a partisan hack


Well...perhaps because I don't frequent those shady parts of the internet where the Uranium One story is obsessively pushed as evidence of Hilary's criminality (aka "whataboutism"); perhaps because it's not relevant today; part because it's a non-story, as I posted over a year-and-a-half ago.

An excerpt from the article to which I linked:

_But what Trump calls a "modern-age" Watergate — a conspiracy theory that Clinton accepted bribes in exchange for allowing Russia's nuclear agency to claim American uranium — is unfounded, Russia and nuclear experts say.

It concerns what they consider an innocuous deal: The partial sale in 2010 of Uranium One — a Canadian company based in Toronto that happens to have mining rights in the U.S. — to Russia's nuclear authority Rosatom.

"The short answer is no, there's nothing particularly unusual about it," says Thomas Graham, a former national security adviser in Barack Obama's White House.

Trump described the Uranium One transaction quite differently.

"We had Hillary Clinton give Russia 20 per cent of the uranium in our country," he said in February. "You know what uranium is, right? It's this thing called nuclear weapons."

Wrong in so many ways, Graham says._​
*Is there new evidence or some credible allegations* (you know, backed up by facts, not just rantings on Right Wing Radio or that little _mort_ kittens website from which FeXL gets his daily infusion of hatred)?


----------



## Macfury

Well there you go. His Majesty says the Uranium One story is unfounded because the same article says so. What a relief!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

You, requesting _actual facts_, from somebody else?

The iron...

And, you're absolutely right. I should be getting my information from the same accurate, unbiased sources that the Progs do: The Clinton News Network, MotherJones, MotherCorpse, etc., etc., etc. 

You know, the exact same ones that reported so truthfully & objectively on your Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz lies.

Speaking of hatred... XX)



CubaMark said:


> (you know, backed up by facts, not just rantings on Right Wing Radio or that little _mort_ kittens website from which FeXL gets his daily infusion of hatred)?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What a relief!


I feel better already!


----------



## CubaMark

*The Lunatic-in-Chief is at it again.*

*Donald J. Trump*

_Weeks ago, lawmakers in New York cheered as they passed legislation to allow babies to be ripped from the womb of their mother right up to the very moment of death. Then, in an act and a statement, the likes of which I don't think I've ever heard, in Virginia, the governor - a Democrat - stated that he would allow babies to be born, to be born outside. He would wrap them. He would take care of them. And then he'll talk to the mother and the father as to what to be done. And if they didn't want the child, who is now outside of the womb - long outside of the womb - they will execute the baby after birth._​
If you want to skip his pre-babble, jump to 1:10 in the video at C-SPAN.


----------



## Macfury

Lunatic Governor Northam:



> “If a mother is in labor…the infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and mother.”





CubaMark said:


> *The Lunatic-in-Chief is at it again.*
> 
> *Donald J. Trump*
> 
> _Weeks ago, lawmakers in New York cheered as they passed legislation to allow babies to be ripped from the womb of their mother right up to the very moment of death. Then, in an act and a statement, the likes of which I don't think I've ever heard, in Virginia, the governor - a Democrat - stated that he would allow babies to be born, to be born outside. He would wrap them. He would take care of them. And then he'll talk to the mother and the father as to what to be done. And if they didn't want the child, who is now outside of the womb - long outside of the womb - they will execute the baby after birth._​
> If you want to skip his pre-babble, jump to 1:10 in the video at C-SPAN.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Lunatic Governor Northam:


Sigh. No. Typical Right-Wing base-enraging misinformation (aka "lies"):

The furor escalated quickly after Republicans circulated a video of Del. Kathy Tran (D-Fairfax) acknowledging that her bill, like current law, would allow abortions up to the point of delivery in cases when the mother’s life or health was at serious risk. Northam, a pediatric neurologist, was asked about the issue in a radio interview and gave an answer that was later used by Republicans to suggest he favored killing live babies.

The procedures, Northam said in the WTOP interview, are “done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s not viable. So in this particular example, if a mother’s in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

Northam’s office later made clear the governor was talking about prognosis and medical treatment, not ending the life of a delivered baby.

His comments triggered a GOP furor.

“I’m surprised that he did that. I’ve met him a number of times,” Trump told the Daily Caller when asked about Northam’s remarks. He said he had not seen the governor’s words but had watched the video of Tran.

“I thought it was terrible,” Trump said. “Do you remember when I said Hillary Clinton was willing to rip the baby out of the womb? That’s what it is. That’s what they’re doing. It’s terrible.”

Northam, whose spokeswoman said his words were being taken out of context by Republicans, called the notion that he would approve of killing infants “disgusting.”

“I have devoted my life to caring for children, and any insinuation otherwise is shameful and disgusting,” he said.

(WashingtonPost)​


----------



## Macfury

Sigh. Yes.

No matter how you try to frame it, Northam was talking about ending the life of a baby born alive.

Bill HB 2491:



> ...eliminates the requirement that two other physicians certify that a third trimester abortion _is necessary to prevent the woman's death or impairment of her mental or physical health, as well as the need to find that any such impairment to the woman's health would be substantial and irremediable. _


So third trimester abortions would be legal based on no health concerns, and otherwise healthy babies who aren't killed by the abortion procedure itself and are delivered could be treated just as Northam says.


----------



## FeXL

This, coming from the guy who promulgated the lies about Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz, among others.

Typical, indeed.

And, MF nails it. There is no, zero, context that would change his statement into anything other than speaking about killing born healthy babies.



CubaMark said:


> Typical Right-Wing base-enraging misinformation (aka "lies")...


----------



## CubaMark

I honestly don't know how you two get through a day with all the altered reality your brains are manifesting.

Wow.

:yikes:


----------



## FeXL

It's quite easy, actually.

We merely ignore 99.99% of what <spit> Progs spew...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> I honestly don't know how you two get through a day with all the altered reality your brains are manifesting.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> This, coming from the guy who promulgated the lies about Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz, among others.
> 
> Typical, indeed.
> 
> And, MF nails it. There is no, zero, context that would change his statement into anything other than speaking about killing born healthy babies.



Whatever your stand on abortion, this law has to be offensive in the extreme. The issue is not that the Orange pointed it out, the issues lies with those who drafted it, passed it and with the governor who signed it into law.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Whatever your stand on abortion, this law has to be offensive in the extreme. The issue is not that the Orange pointed it out, the issues lies with those who drafted it, passed it and with the governor who signed it into law.


*It hasn't been passed. It hasn't been signed into law.
*
Jeebus, don't people read anymore? From the Washington Post article linked above:

Virginia House Speaker Kirk Cox (R-Colonial Heights) made a dramatic floor speech citing Bible verses to vow to fight against abortion.

Republicans, clinging to a slim majority in an election year when the entire General Assembly is on the ballot, sought to exploit the moment as part of a campaign to paint Democrats as radicals out of step with the state. And the uproar played directly into the national partisan divide, fueling outrage at a time when Democrats are launching presidential campaigns on issues far removed from abortion, an in*trac*table issue in American society.

* * *

It was a surprising turn for legislation that had been introduced — and had failed — each of the past three years without any drama. A companion bill offered in the state Senate more than a week ago failed without comment.​


----------



## Macfury

I didn't say it had been passed. And the text of the Bill is exactly what I said it was. It allows the doctor-assisted death of babies born alive, whether you value those lives or not. 



CubaMark said:


> *It hasn't been passed. It hasn't been signed into law.]*


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I didn't say it had been passed. And the text of the Bill is exactly what I said it was. It allows the doctor-assisted death of babies born alive, whether you value those lives or not.


eMacMan said it had been passed and signed into law by the Governer. This is false.

Here's the text of the bill: *Please indicate where the murder of babies outside the womb is permitted or endorsed.*

I'll just sit here and wait....


----------



## FeXL

This discussion isn't about the text of the bill. It's what Northam _said_.

Want to try moving the goalposts again?



CubaMark said:


> Here's the text of the bill


'Cause that's what you're good at...



CubaMark said:


> I'll just sit here and wait....


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> This discussion isn't about the text of the bill. It's what Northam _said_.


Exactly. The proposed bill removes protection from infants. It does not explicitly instruct doctors to murder them.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Exactly. The proposed bill removes protection from infants. It does not explicitly instruct doctors to murder them.


Y'all are dancing around like you're in bare feet on hot coals.

Please do elaborate on how the proposed bill (which is DOA, for the third or fourth time consecutively in any case) would "remove protection from infants". Pretty sure that would require a constitutional amendment, to permit a scenario where the murder of a child outside of the womb could legally occur.

But please, do go on. I've just made some popcorn.

:lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I honestly don't know how you two get through a day with all the altered reality your brains are manifesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> :yikes:




They are each other’s number one fans. It’s an agreed upon alternate reality.


----------



## FeXL

<snort> You're the one moving the goalposts all over hell's half acre...



CubaMark said:


> Y'all are dancing around like you're in bare feet on hot coals.


----------



## FeXL

Ron Rosenstein Submits Resignation; Will Leave DOJ May 11th



> So he's finally out.
> 
> Last week, Rosenstein made some news by announcing that the Obama administration had downplayed Russia interference as it was actually happening. And meanwhile the FBI had leaked details about it to the media.


----------



## FeXL

No, Freddie. I'm definitely _your_ #1 fan. I jes' luvs it when you open that hole under yer nose & exchange feet...



Freddie_Biff said:


> They are each other’s number one fans.


----------



## Macfury

In the Virginia legislature:


> GILBERT: "Where it's obvious that a woman is about to give birth ... she has physical signs that she is about to give birth would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? If she's dilating?"
> 
> TRAN: "Mr. Chairman, that would be a decision that the doctor, the physician, and the woman would make at that point."
> 
> GILBERT: "I understand that. I'm asking if your bill allows that."
> 
> TRAN: "My bill would allow that, yes."


So it's established that the proposed bill advocates abortion up until a few seconds before birth. Northam then goes on to provide that quote, saying that babies "with deformities" could be aborted and if they survive abortion, resuscitated and killed later.


----------



## Macfury

Man, does only defending third trimester abortion get you out of your hidey hole?



Freddie_Biff said:


> They are each other’s number one fans. It’s an agreed upon alternate reality.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Man, does only defending third trimester abortion get you out of your hidey hole?




Strangely enough, I have a life and a job, Mr. Forum-Squatter, and I just don’t have the kind of time to devote to these discussions as you do. You do you.


----------



## Macfury

Exactly. So with your all-consuming job, only a defense of third-trimester abortions was worth your precious time to appear.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Strangely enough, I have a life and a job, Mr. Forum-Squatter, and I just don’t have the kind of time to devote to these discussions as you do. You do you.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....babies "with deformities" could be aborted and if they survive abortion, resuscitated and killed later.


Again, *SHOW ME* where this appears as any part of the proposed legislation?

People say and mis-speak a lot of things. But if it isn't part of the legislation, then it ain't happening.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Exactly. So with your all-consuming job, only a defense of third-trimester abortions was worth your precious time to appear.




My comment wasn’t about abortions. Read it again.


----------



## FeXL

Really...

So, tell me, Bigot, why is it when a Prog "mis-speaks" it's all just a massive _misunderstanding taken completely out of context_ and when someone from the political right "mis-speaks" it's all a nationalistic/white male/supremacist/GUNS!/-ist/whatever conspiracy? Hmmm?

That's pretty fukcing convenient, no?

And, _and_, people say a lot of things they fervently believe or want to be true, too. Despite all evidence to the contrary. You will personally find one of these low-lifes in the mirror.



CubaMark said:


> People say and mis-speak a lot of things.


----------



## CubaMark

_Nothing to hide... nope. Nothing at all...._ :lmao:

*Trump Sues Two Banks To Block Federal Investigation*

Donald Trump has repreatedly refused to hand over the documentation needed to investigate his financial dealings despite receiving federal subpoenas. 

U.S. President Donald Trump, along with three of his children and seven of his companies, filed a federal lawsuit on Monday, April 29, against Deutsche Bank and Capital One Financial Corp in an attemp to block the banks from complying with federal subpoenas investigating his financial dealings.

(Telesur)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Further to this BS...

Horse feathers & bull-puckey.

Just because something isn't directly addressed in a particular piece of legislation doesn't mean that it is automatically excluded from that legislation. Why do you suppose the judiciary exists? To _*interpret*_ the law, FFS!

If it was all cut & dried they wouldn't have a job.



CubaMark said:


> But if it isn't part of the legislation, then it ain't happening.


----------



## FeXL

Beto O’Rourke Unveils $5 Trillion Climate Change Plan



> Beto O'Rourke, the former congressman and failed Senate candidate jockeying for position in the crowded "straight white male" lane of the Democratic presidential primary, has finally unveiled a policy proposal. The candidate published on his campaign website Monday an ambitious plan to combat climate change—"the greatest threat we face"—*to the tune of $5 trillion over the next decade.*


Bold mine...


----------



## Macfury

What crime is being investigated that these records are being requested?



CubaMark said:


> _Nothing to hide... nope. Nothing at all...._ :lmao:
> 
> *Trump Sues Two Banks To Block Federal Investigation*
> 
> Donald Trump has repreatedly refused to hand over the documentation needed to investigate his financial dealings despite receiving federal subpoenas.
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump, along with three of his children and seven of his companies, filed a federal lawsuit on Monday, April 29, against Deutsche Bank and Capital One Financial Corp in an attemp to block the banks from complying with federal subpoenas investigating his financial dealings.
> 
> (Telesur)​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> _Nothing to hide... nope. Nothing at all...._ :lmao:
> 
> *Trump Sues Two Banks To Block Federal Investigation*Donald Trump has repreatedly refused to hand over the documentation needed to investigate his financial dealings despite receiving federal subpoenas.
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump, along with three of his children and seven of his companies, filed a federal lawsuit on Monday, April 29, against Deutsche Bank and Capital One Financial Corp in an attemp to block the banks from complying with federal subpoenas investigating his financial dealings.
> 
> (Telesur)​


What's interesting here is that Trump has done nothing to end FATCA. For any of those accounts which are international, Congress probably does not need a subpoena to see them.

Thanks to FATCA every American citizen, and lots of folks who are not American, must file a F(u)BAR and possibly 8938s and/or 5320s on all of their accounts outside of the USA. Their banks must also file FinCEN-114s (FuBARS) on those accounts. The FinCEN aka F(u)BAR reports contain every bit of information a hacker would need to access and deplete those accounts. They are stored in a massive database with the Criminal Enforcement Network of the IRS along with information on suspected drug dealers and money launderers. According to the privacy statement, pretty much any department head of any agency with a three letter acronym has access to that data. Not only that but the RCMP, CSIS, Interpol and just about any other non-US police force can also access that data.

If Carrot Top is that concerned about financial privacy let him start with an executive order abolishing FATCA. Millions of Americans living outside of the US would be incredibly grateful as would their wives, children, business partners.....


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What crime is being investigated that these records are being requested?


Appears to be a fishing expedition:

Trump Sues To Stop Deutsche Bank Handing Records To Maxine Waters & Adam Schiff



> President Trump, his three eldest children, the Trump Organization and the family trust have jointly filed a lawsuit to try and stop Deutsche Bank and Capital One from turning over records of its financial dealings with the Trump Organization to the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees, according to Bloomberg. *In the lawsuit, the family's lawyers contend that Congress is simply trying to "harass" their client with a "fishing expedition" (as Democrats cast about for a new narrative with which to bludgeon the president now that the Russia collusion narrative has fizzled with the publication of the Mueller report).*


Bold mine.


----------



## SINC

.


----------



## FeXL

Robert Francis "Beto" O'Rourke Ahora Comprando Anuncios En Mexico!



> Tal vez estaba borracho cuando compró los anuncios.
> 
> A screenshot of O'Rourke's page captured by the Washington Free Beacon last Friday revealed he was paying to have certain posts viewed by Facebook users in Mexico.​
> ¡Ay yi yi yi! ¡Qué mundo loco!


Woohoo!!!


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> “What are you doing to investigate unauthorized media contacts by the department and FBI officials during the Russian investigation?” he asked.
> 
> 
> “We have multiple criminal leak investigations underway,” Barr responded.​
> More.
> 
> "Here's where we are. The Democrats and you folks in the media are not concerned about the report. I think you're concerned about the results weren't what you expected. And I think we're finding out that everybody was sold a bunch of snake oil, and now the jig is up!" – Grassley pic.twitter.com/QGGXO3lK8t
> 
> — Jeff DeRiso (@JeffDeRiso) May 1, 2019​


Related:


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barr s'more!

AG Barr to Nadler: Have Fun Interviewing Each Other, Assholes



> Nadler changed the rules today to bring in staff ringers to put Barr through more of the crap that Hirono put him through today.
> 
> Barr is a cabinet-level official, and there are protocols here: While they will consent to be interrogated by someone who's a rough constitutional peer (like a member of Congress), that doesn't mean they'll consent to be insulted and slandered by flunkies.


Related:

Barr: Yes, I'm Investigating the Possbility of Clinton/DNC Collusion with Russia


----------



## FeXL

Winning!

Unexpectedly, April Payrolls Surge by 275,000, Shattering Expectations



> *Trump is colluding with the market economy to make himself look good.*
> 
> The U.S. economy added far more jobs than expected in April as payrolls in the services sector grew by the most in more than two years, according to data released Wednesday by ADP and Moody’s Analytics.
> 
> Private payrolls grew by 275,000 last month, the biggest increase since July, when they expanded by 284,000. Economists polled by Dow Jones expected private payrolls growth of 177,000.​


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Drops the Hammer on Castro



> “In major shift, Trump to allow lawsuits against foreign firms in Cuba--The Trump administration will allow lawsuits in U.S. courts for the first time against foreign companies that use properties confiscated by Communist-ruled Cuba since Fidel Castro’s revolution.” (Reuters.)
> 
> “Major shift,” is right. The provision in the Helms Burton Act (i.e. codification of the “Cuba embargo”) allowing for these suits was passed with the act in 1996. But ever since, frowning, finger-wagging threats from the United Nations, European Union and the “international community” in general cowed every U.S. President into lowering his head, tucking his tail between his legs and waiving the lawsuit provision.


Related:

Trump goes for a twofer: Knocking Cuba's socialist dictatorship out along with Venezuela's



> Cuba, the socialist police state so adored by Obama administration twerps like Ben Rhodes, is finding itself in the line of fire for its brutal grip on Venezuela.
> 
> President Trump has vowed to make the socialist dictatorship pay by threatening Cuba with 'full and complete' sanctions, which is exactly what it deserves. Here are his tweets:
> 
> If Cuban Troops and Militia do not immediately CEASE military and other operations for the purpose of causing death and destruction to the Constitution of Venezuela, a full and complete....
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 30, 2019
> 
> ....embargo, together with highest-level sanctions, will be placed on the island of Cuba. Hopefully, all Cuban soldiers will promptly and peacefully return to their island!
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 30, 2019​


Wait for it! In 3...2...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Trump Drops the Hammer on Castro


*The President of Cuba since 2018 is Miguel Díaz-Canel.*

As for Trump's "threat", Cuba has been under "total sanctions" for a long, long time, and it's still doing its own thing.

The lawsuits, that's a new one. I've covered ad nauseum in previous discussions (!) with the likes of MacNutt, et al., the issue of the 1959-onward nationalizations. Cuba offered, and did, negotiate settlements with businesses from all nations, except the USA - as the US government refused to allow corporations / individuals to enter into negotiations. 

Cuba has always maintained that it is willing to negotiate compensation. Many of the larger corporations weren't too keen on Cuba's use of the declared tax value when arriving at a figure, but that's what you get for artificially under-valuing your properties to avoid paying taxes.

The threat of the un-suspension of Helms Burton Title III provisions is certainly worrying for many businesses that have worked with Cuba in the past few decades. Nobody wants to have to deal with litigious gringos. 

The Government of Canada issued this notice on the matter in April:

_*Update on the Helms-Burton Act and Canadians doing business in Cuba*

On April 17, 2019 the United States government announced that it will implement Title III of the Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity (LIBERTAD) Act of 1996 (also known as the Helms-Burton Act). The U.S. also indicated on the same day that it will be taking action regarding the application of Title IV of this legislation.

The application of Titles III and IV may have implications for Canadian companies active in the Cuban market.

We encourage Canadian companies and investors in Cuba to familiarize themselves with the Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act. Canadians with business ties to Cuba should also conduct their own due diligence regarding legal risks, including seeking legal counsel to assess their particular situation, as appropriate.

As stated by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, amendments in 1996 to Canada’s Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act (FEMA) stipulate that any judgment issued under the Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity (LIBERTAD) Act of 1996 shall neither be recognized nor enforceable in any manner in Canada. FEMA also allows for Canadians to apply to the Attorney General of Canada to recover amounts that have been obtained against them under a Helms-Burton judgment, including expenses, losses or damages incurred._​


----------



## FeXL

...1! 



cubamark said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## FeXL

FBI Admits It Sent a Spy to Spy on a Trump Aide in London; The New York Times Frets That the FBI's Admission That It Spied on Trump Might Give Credence to Trump's Claims the FBI Spied on Him



> Yeah probably.
> 
> The conversation at a London bar in September 2016 took a strange turn when the woman sitting across from George Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign adviser, asked a direct question: Was the Trump campaign working with Russia?
> 
> The woman had set up the meeting to discuss foreign policy issues. But she was actually a government investigator posing as a research assistant, according to people familiar with the operation. The F.B.I. sent her to London as part of the counterintelligence inquiry opened that summer to better understand the Trump campaign's links to Russia.
> 
> The American government's affiliation with the woman, who said her name was Azra Turk, is one previously unreported detail of an operation that has become a political flash point in the face of accusations by President Trump and his allies that American law enforcement and intelligence officials spied on his campaign to undermine his electoral chances. Last year, he called it "Spygate."
> 
> The decision to use Ms. Turk in the operation aimed at a presidential campaign official shows the level of alarm inside the F.B.I. during a frantic period when the bureau was trying to determine the scope of Russia's attempts to disrupt the 2016 election, *but could also give ammunition to Mr. Trump and his allies for their spying claims.*​


Links' bold.

Related:

BOMBSHELL: Ukraine Embassy Says DNC Operative Reached Out For Dirt On Trump In 2016, Report Says



> A new bombshell report released on Thursday evening alleges that an operative for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) reached out during the 2016 presidential election and asked for dirt on Donald Trump.
> 
> The Hill reports that Ukrainian Ambassador Valeriy Chaly's office said in written answers to questions that DNC contractor Alexandra Chalupa​ sought information on Paul Manafort because Chalupa wanted to force Manafort's business dealings in front Congress:


----------



## FeXL

Interesting...

Seizing El Chapo’s Assets Would Build the Wall, Make the Cartels Pay for It



> Sen. Steve Daines (R-MT) told Breitbart News in an exclusive interview Wednesday that he would back President Donald Trump’s potential designation of the Mexican cartels as Foreign Terrorist Organizations and that seizing cartel leader El Chapo’s assets would build the wall and make the cartels pay for it.
> 
> President Trump told Breitbart News in March that his administration continues to think “very seriously” about labeling violent Mexican drug cartels, or factions of those cartels, Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs).


----------



## FeXL

Reporter: Biden Campaign Physically Blocking Press from Asking Questions



> A freelance reporter covering Joe Biden's presidential campaign launch says the campaign has gotten physical in its attempts to block the press from questioning the former vice president.
> 
> Marcus DiPaola, a videographer who was on the trail with Biden Wednesday night in Iowa, used his Twitter account to voice complaints from multiple members of the press regarding poor treatment from campaign staff, which was reportedly blocking reporters from asking questions and taking photographs of anyone who objected.
> 
> "A reporter approached @JoeBiden to ask a question and a member of his staff told the reporter to leave, and when the reporter explained that they were just doing their job, the staffer said she was too," DiPaola wrote. "The staffer then took a photo of the reporter."


----------



## Beej

Information on how extreme (and crazy) the left has become in the U.S. I think this applies at least across the English world.

No new data is presented, from what I can tell, but a few sources are conveniently brought together in the video.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6grXCooL3-M[/ame]


This is why terrible ideas such as open borders, patriarchy, de-platforming, etc are presented as "serious" mainstream positions for discussion in national politics.

It's a bit like this Simpsons clip:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXT6wfeo_V8[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

_What is it with Republicans and Puerto Rico? Seems like they like to own the beaches, but really hate the Mexicans who live there even more (as we've seen, all Spanish speakers south of the border are essentially Mexicans to the Republicans):_

*Donald Trump falsely tweets that Puerto Rico got $91 billion in hurricane aid*

After Democrats and Republicans in the Senate failed to reach an agreement on disaster aid for Puerto Rico, President Donald Trump falsely tweeted about the amount of hurricane aid already distributed.

_"Puerto Rico got 91 Billion Dollars for the hurricane, more money than has ever been gotten for a hurricane before, & all their local politicians do is complain & ask for more money. The pols are grossly incompetent, spend the money foolishly or corruptly, & only take from USA....,"_​Trump tweeted April 2.​
Then he praised his own leadership:

"....The best thing that ever happened to Puerto Rico is President Donald J. Trump. So many wonderful people, but with such bad Island leadership and with so much money wasted. Cannot continue to hurt our Farmers and States with these massive payments, and so little appreciation!"


We found that Trump is wrong about the dollar amount the territory has received and wrong when he said it was a record.

* * *​
*Puerto Rico has not received $91 billion*

The federal government’s recovery website shows shows $40.7 billion has been allocated (Congress appropriated the spending) through December 2018. Of that, $19.4 billion has been obligated (the government has promised to spend the money) and of that $11.2 billion has been spent. The money comes from various agencies and funds including FEMA, U.S. Housing and Urban Development, the Community Development Fund and the Disaster Relief Fund. 

A senior administration official told PolitiFact that Trump arrived at the $91 billion figure by combining the roughly $41 billion already allocated with additional estimated future FEMA costs of $50 billion. (The Washington Post’s Fact Checker wrote that the $50 billion was a high end estimate of what would need to be committed under the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act of 1988.)

That means the $50 billion is speculative, said Steve Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense.

"It may be spent, it may not, and some of it will be far into the future," he said.

How far into the future? A look at Katrina spending shows it can last for more than a decade after a storm.

There is still Disaster Relief Fund money being paid out related to Katrina (and Rita and Wilma, also 2005 storms), to the tune of nearly $200 million this year, Ellis said.

* * *​
Federal officials did not respond to our questions asking how Trump concluded that the $91 billion figure was more than any other disaster. But federal reports show that the government has already spent more on Hurricane Katrina -- and that’s without factoring in inflation. The Congressional Research Service estimated in 2014 that "Congress provided roughly $120 billion for Hurricane Katrina."

In his attack on Puerto Rico disaster spending, Trump said that we "cannot continue to hurt our Farmers and States with these massive payments, and so little appreciation!"

The federal government pays for disasters in various states and the territory of Puerto Rico, which is a part of the United States. (This is despite the comments by White House spokesman Hogan Gidley on MSNBC who referred to Puerto Rico as "that country." He called it a slip of the tongue.)

(Politifact)​


----------



## Macfury

Since no jurisdiction gets all the money at once, the $91 billion figure could be said to be accurate.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Since no jurisdiction gets all the money at once, the $91 billion figure could be said to be accurate.


Even if one chose to interpret reality in that fashion, Trump is still incorrect in his assessment that Puerto Rico's aid from the Federal government is some kind of "record", as the article indicates. 

Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory. Its citizens are U.S. citizens. Does the Trump regime feel that it has a lesser responsibility to help Puerto Rico than, e.g., continental US states in the event of a disaster?


----------



## Macfury

What's the real record for aid, then?



CubaMark said:


> Even if one chose to interpret reality in that fashion, Trump is still incorrect in his assessment that Puerto Rico's aid from the Federal government is some kind of "record", as the article indicates.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

What is it with Puerto Rican Progs tossing US aid supplies into dumpsters?



CubaMark said:


> What is it with Republicans and Puerto Rico?


----------



## wonderings

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> What is it with Puerto Rican Progs tossing US aid supplies into dumpsters?


I heard/read about that sort of thing going on a while ago. I want to believe it is not actually happening, does it really get any lower then that? Tossing away things people need because of a political agenda?


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Tossing away things people need because of a political agenda?


Progs would cut off their nose to spite their face.


----------



## FeXL

<snort>

Green (D): If We Don’t Impeach Trump, ‘He Will Get Re-Elected’



> Rep. Al Green (D., Texas) said on Saturday that if Democrats don't begin impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump, "he will get re-elected."
> 
> Green, who has called for Trump's removal from office since 2017 and introduced articles of impeachment that year, told MSNBC that he dismissed the idea that impeaching Trump could help him politically.
> 
> "I'm concerned if we don't impeach this president, he will get re-elected. If we don't impeach him, he will say he's been vindicated," Green said. "He will say the Democrats had an overwhelming majority in the House and they didn't take up impeachment. He will say that we had a constitutional duty to do it if it was there, and we didn't. He will say he's been vindicated."


----------



## FeXL

Drugs...

MSNBC Chris Hayes conspiracy theory: Trump economy surging because businesses undermined Obama



> Hayes has detailed his latest conspiracy theory on Twitter, and it goes like this: the only reason the Trump economy is strong is that millions of business owners conspired to go bankrupt to make the economy tank under Obama. They were all in on it! *Millions of American business owners destroyed their financial lives, their families’ well-being, to discredit Obama.*
> 
> You can’t make this stuff up.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Gropin' Joe losin' it?

Is Joe Okay? Biden Claims Margaret Thatcher (Who Passed Away 6 Years Ago) is Worried About Trump



> The gaffe machine is back in action.
> 
> According to Fox News, former Vice President Biden was forced to correct himself over the weekend after claiming former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was concerned about Trump. Sounds good, except for the fact that Thatcher passed away in 2013.


Related:

You'll have to elect him to find out what's in it! :lmao:

Joe Biden, Running For President, Says He ‘Doesn’t Have Time’ To Explain His Healthcare Plan



> Joe Biden wants you to vote for him so you can find out what’s in his healthcare plan.
> 
> That sounds familiar.
> 
> During his first weeks as an official presidential candidate, Biden has talked extensively about healthcare being a human “right” (health insurance, however, is not a right) and said he would give everyone the chance to buy into Medicare, stopping just short of supporting rival candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) “Medicare-for-all” plan. The plan would apparently allow Americans to stop relying on private health insurance, but Biden has so far not provided details on how exactly he would get us there.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What is it with Puerto Rican Progs tossing US aid supplies into dumpsters?


That's beyond stupid.

1/ Think about it. Hurricane damaged, stores empty, people desperate... you think it would be left in dumpsters? Stolen / put into the hands of friends, relatives, etc., sure... but that's just dumb.

2/ That's not a dumpster that Rivera is wading around in - it looks like the back of a military lorry. And at most it's a couple of already opened palettes with some boxes missing, others open, etc. No context, no information on where this was filmed. No nothing, apart from rumours and allegations. Of course, that is absolute 100% proof positive in FeXL standards :lmao:

3/ The one other allegation of this type refers to a lack of distribution of aid by Mayor Carmen Yulin... the sole source, a supposed female police officer sobbing in a radio call-in show. No other facts, investigation, details, nada.

You really need to up your game, buddy. Them's pretty slim pickin's (at least in terms of the standard of proof for the rational among us).


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> What's the real record for aid, then?


Dunno. The article above, which you apparently couldn't be bothered to read, noted that the Congressional Research Office put the figure for aid to post-Hurricane Katrina Louisiana topped $120-Billion, so there's that....


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Oh, I agree!



CubaMark said:


> That's beyond stupid.


That, too.



CubaMark said:


> ...put into the hands of friends, relatives, etc.,


Are _you_ asking _me_ for hard evidence?

It certainly sounds like _you_ are asking _me_ for hard evidence.



CubaMark said:


> No context, no information on where this was filmed. No nothing, apart from rumours and allegations. Of course, that is absolute 100% proof positive in FeXL standards


Yep. Definitely asking for hard evidence.

You've convicted & hung people on these very boards with far less, Bigot. Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz, anyone?



CubaMark said:


> No other facts, investigation, details, nada.


The iron...



CubaMark said:


> You really need to up your game, buddy. Them's pretty slim pickin's (at least in terms of the standard of proof for the rational among us).


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Are _you_ asking _me_ for hard evidence?
> 
> It certainly sounds like _you_ are asking _me_ for hard evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Definitely asking for hard evidence.


.....uh... yeah, man. I'm asking you for evidence. You posted the original allegations of the dumping of aid in Puerto Rico, without any foundation, no follow-up reports, no nada. So yeah, I'm asking you for evidence.

Glad you (finally) got that. It appears it was a difficult journey for you.... :clap:


----------



## FeXL

I already posted evidence, asshole.

Which is more than you did with Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz.

If you have issues with my evidence, tough bananas. Neither I, nor anyone other sentient being on these boards, cares what you think.



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah-fukcing-blah


----------



## Macfury

I did read it. Wanted to make sure you did too. Too often people post based on headlines.



CubaMark said:


> Dunno. The article above, which you apparently couldn't be bothered to read, noted that the Congressional Research Office put the figure for aid to post-Hurricane Katrina Louisiana topped $120-Billion, so there's that....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Dunno. The article above, which you apparently couldn't be bothered to read, noted that the Congressional Research Office put the figure for aid to post-Hurricane Katrina Louisiana topped $120-Billion, so there's that....




It sure is ironic that FeXL keeps calling you a bigot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I already posted evidence, asshole.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is more than you did with Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have issues with my evidence, tough bananas. Neither I, nor anyone other sentient being on these boards, cares what you think.




“Asshole”? I thought that was my word. Looks like you’re run out of putdowns of your own. Perhaps you can at least stop acting holier than thou.


----------



## Macfury

I think it is—I looked in the dictionary and your picture was included next to the definition!



Freddie_Biff said:


> “Asshole”? I thought that was my word.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> I already posted evidence,


Is _that_ what you think you posted? 



FeXL said:


> asshole.


Further confirmation that the person I think you are, you are. Yup. :baby:



FeXL said:


> Which is more than you did with Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz.


Again, your interpretation of reality and the actual expression of reality remain distinctly separate items.



FeXL said:


> If you have issues with my evidence, tough bananas.


Oh, don't misinterpret my position: I have long-standing issues with your "evidence" (*ahem*Germanwings*ahem*). And I love banana - especially banana bread. My recipe is ah-MAZ-ing, but you'll never see it. 



FeXL said:


> Neither I, nor anyone other sentient being on these boards, cares what you think.


Shall we take a poll of the membership? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

And you're giving SINC a hard time about grammar? :lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Looks like *you’re run* out of putdowns of your own.


That's your claim, Freddie, not mine.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you can at least stop acting holier than thou.


----------



## FeXL

More'n you, Clock Girl.



CubaMark said:


> Is _that_ what you think you posted?


A shrewd judge of human character? I'll take that.



CubaMark said:


> Further confirmation that the person I think you are, you are.


Whatever you say, Catlicker Boyz.



CubaMark said:


> Again, your interpretation of reality and the actual expression of reality remain distinctly separate items.


Anytime you wanna start comparing right vs wrong, let me know. You've got entire threads that are FOS.



CubaMark said:


> Oh, don't misinterpret my position: I have long-standing issues with your "evidence"...


Let's! If it makes a small, insecure, _little_ human being like yourself feel better, go for it. The only problem is finding a sentient Prog to support you... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> Shall we take a poll of the membership?


----------



## FeXL

Panda Played the Dragon Game – Now Trump Targets the Bamboo Forest…



> Well, it looks like all suspicions are now confirmed. The dragon dance of 2017 and 2018 has extended into 2019. DPRK Chairman Kim fires rockets, Trump smacks Chinese Chairman Xi. Yes, we can officially put the remaining bits of skepticism to rest…
> 
> The meeting last week between Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and their Chinese counterparts including Vice-Chairman Liu, was especially important. Mnuchin and Lighthizer said they would debrief President Trump on the likelihood of whether a successful trade deal with a communist regime was structurally possible; or whether Beijing was playing a game of delay.
> 
> The ongoing dance with the dragon has been a series of cunning manuevers between the Panda mask and the Dragon face. At the conclusion of the Beijing visit by Mnuchin and Lighthizer, Chinese Chairman Xi sent a proactive response using his familiar proxy North Korean Chairman Kim. The DPRK test-fired three missiles.
> 
> Today President Trump responds:
> 
> The increase of the Round-1 tariffs from 10% to 25%, previously delayed after discussions between Xi and Trump in Argentina, will now be triggered. Additionally, the Round-2 tariffs (25% on $325 billion of different goods), originally scheduled for March 1, also postponed after the Argentina dinner, will now be implemented.


----------



## FeXL

Peter Strzok Suspected the CIA Was Behind #FakeNews Leaks Claiming Fictitious Trump-Russian Encounters



> Red courtesy phone for John Brennan... federal investigators on the line...
> 
> Peter Strzok suspected CIA employees were behind inaccurate leaks to the press regarding possible Trump campaign contacts with Russia, according to an email the former FBI counterintelligence official sent to colleagues in April 2017.
> 
> *"I'm beginning to think the agency got info a lot earlier than we thought and hasn’t shared it completely with us. Might explain all these weird/seemingly incorrect leads all these media folks have. Would also highlight agency as source of some of the leaks,"* Strzok wrote in an email to FBI colleagues on April 13, 2017.​


Links' bold.

Related:

James Comey is in trouble and he knows it



> James Comey’s planet is getting noticeably warmer. Attorney General William Barr’s emissions are the suspected cause.
> 
> Barr has made plain that he intends to examine carefully how and why Comey, as FBI director, decided that the bureau should investigate two presidential campaigns and if, in so doing, any rules or laws were broken.
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> In light of this, the fired former FBI director apparently has decided that photos of him on Twitter standing amid tall trees and in the middle of empty country roads, acting all metaphysical, is no longer a sufficient strategy.
> 
> No, Comey has realized, probably too late, that he has to try to counter, more directly, the narrative being set by the unsparing attorney general whose words in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee last week landed in the Trump-opposition world like holy water on Linda Blair. Shrieking heads haven’t stopped spinning since.


----------



## FeXL

Obama's DHS Jeh Johnson Forced to Withdraw from USC Commencement Speech Due to... Very Mild and Ineffectual Border Enforcement Record



> Even a _de minimis_ standard of border enforcement is officially Nazi (TM) and can no longer be tolerated.
> 
> Here's the kicker:
> 
> The Very Special Snowflakes demanding his withdraw due to his mild enforcement of the _law_ were... law students.
> 
> Law students _triggered_ by enforcing the law.


----------



## FeXL

White House Invokes Executive Privilege to Protect Unredacted Mueller Report, Tells Nadler and Schiff lol get ****ed



> The White House had threatened to do just this if the sexually ambiguous duo didn't stop playing games in demanding the White House perform an illegal act (such as releasing grand jury testimony).
> 
> From PJ Media's Morning Briefing:
> 
> First up, we have the House Intelligence Committee led by the very unhinged Democrat Rep. Adam Schiff who wants the DoJ to turn over all the underlying documents and an unredacted version of the Mueller report to congress. They are getting ready to issue a subpoena. (A copy of the report with everything other than the grand jury testimony is available but no Democrats have gone to view it. Clearly, a priority.)
> 
> ...
> 
> What time is it? It's privilege o'clock at the DoJ. The Justice Department says it will move to have sections of the Mueller Report protected by executive privilege if Rep. "Fat Jerry" Nadler of the House Judiciary Committee doesn't stop quacking about a contempt of congress charge.​


----------



## FeXL

Alabama State Rep Who Said "We're Gonna Kill Them Now or Kill Them Later" in Defending Abortion Announces Senate Bid; Also Says That Democrat Senator Doug Jones Told Him, "I Know You're Right, But I Have to Come Out Against You"



> Of course he's running for Senate. Why wouldn't he?
> 
> The Democrats are literal die-hard abortion warriors.
> 
> Democratic Alabama state Rep. John Rogers announced Tuesday he will be running for the U.S. Senate following his controversial remarks on abortion.
> 
> "I am now a candidate for United States Senate," Rogers said on the state’s House floor, according to Yellowhammer News...
> 
> Rogers also clarified his thoughts on abortion-related issues, reportedly telling the Alabama House a miscarriage is a "natural abortion," morning-after pills are the same as abortion, and *sonograms are intended to track a woman's pregnancy in order for her to be informed on whether she would like to terminate it*, according to Yellowhammer News.
> 
> "Some kids are unwanted, so you kill them now or you kill them later," Rogers said during a debate on a state abortion bill May 1. "You bring them in the world unwanted, unloved, you send them to the electric chair. So, you kill them now or you kill them later."
> 
> * Rogers said on a local radio program Monday that Democratic Alabama Sen. Doug Jones called him over the telephone to discuss the comments.
> 
> "I know you’re right, but I got to come out against you," Rogers claims Jones said.*​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

Foiled again!!!

New York Times Bombshell Nothingburger: During the Period When Four of Trump's Businesses Notoriously Declared Bankruptcy, Trump Himself Suffered Losses and Paid Little Income Tax on the Money He Was Not Actually Making (Due to the Bankruptcies)



> *John Sexton digests the New York Times' bomshell report that when a man suffers four bankruptcies of major companies he owns, he's not making much if any money.*
> 
> Sexton notes that the Times gets cagey about how they got these illegally-leaked documents. The Times claims they were from someone with legal access to the documents, as if legal access means "the legal right to release, without the taxpayer's permission."
> 
> Nice little soft-shoe there, Times.
> 
> Who had legal access to the information in Trump's returns? Is that the CPA or attorney doing his taxes during those years? Even assuming this person had legal access to the information, how is it legal to leak that information to the media? This Bloomberg primer on tax confidentiality suggests there are very few circumstances where a tax professional can reveal information without the express permission of the person involved. I'm assuming whoever leaked this information didn't have Trump's consent.
> 
> In any case, I'm not sure how much impact this is going to have. It's not as if the fact that his casino empire was a money loser was a secret until now.​


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Foiled again!!!
> 
> New York Times Bombshell Nothingburger: During the Period When Four of Trump's Businesses Notoriously Declared Bankruptcy, Trump Himself Suffered Losses and Paid Little Income Tax on the Money He Was Not Actually Making (Due to the Bankruptcies)
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.


The story is recycled news. these are the same returns from 18 months ago.


----------



## Beej

CubaMark said:


> Shall we take a poll of the membership? :lmao:


Sounds fun. I recommend allowing for non-absolute options such as "rarely cares", "occasionally cares", "frequently cares", and "usually cares."

Not anonymous to avoid accusations of brigading.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Foiled again!!!
> 
> 
> 
> New York Times Bombshell Nothingburger: During the Period When Four of Trump's Businesses Notoriously Declared Bankruptcy, Trump Himself Suffered Losses and Paid Little Income Tax on the Money He Was Not Actually Making (Due to the Bankruptcies)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.




Ace of Spades HQ? Uh, okay.


----------



## FeXL

How typical, Freddie.

You are unable to attack the argument so, instead, in futility you attack the vehicle.

These boards have taught you much, young padwan...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ace of Spades HQ? Uh, okay.


----------



## Macfury

If you'd been following US politics, you would know this story was regurgitated from a previous year. Donald Trump discussed these losses on _The Apprentice_--hardly a secret.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ace of Spades HQ? Uh, okay.


----------



## eMacMan

I see that Congress wants to find Barr to be in contempt of Congress. 

Just an idle thought but is there anyone on the planet who does not feel contempt towards the US Congress?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I see that Congress wants to find Barr to be in contempt of Congress.
> 
> Just an idle thought but is there anyone on the planet who does not feel contempt towards the US Congress?


It's ludicrous. The law prevents Barr from revealing Grand Jury testimony. An embarrassing political stunt by the Dems.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It's ludicrous. The law prevents Barr from revealing Grand Jury testimony. An embarrassing political stunt by the Dems.


I'm pretty sure Congressmen on both sides of the aisle are absolutely convinced that such laws were never intended to apply to them. Which is just one reason that almost any sane person views Congress with contempt.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I'm pretty sure Congressmen on both sides of the aisle are absolutely convinced that such laws were never intended to apply to them. Which is just one reason that almost any sane person views Congress with contempt.


Yup.


----------



## FeXL

Steele Admitted His Clients Were Anxious To Get His Fake Dossier In the News Before the Election;
The DOJ Played Hide-the-Ball With The Report Noting This Fact



> John Solomon strikes again.
> 
> People need to start being charged with crimes.
> 
> Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Kathleen Kavalec's written account of her Oct. 11, 2016, meeting with FBI informant Christopher Steele shows the Hillary Clinton campaign-funded British intelligence operative admitted that his research was political and facing an Election Day deadline.​


More:



> Handwritten notes indicate a connection to Hillary Clinton. Those haven't been shared with Congress, either.


----------



## FeXL

'Course not.

White House: Not A Single Democrat Has Looked At Less Redacted Mueller Report



> Not a single Democrat has viewed the minimally redacted Mueller report provided to select members of Congress, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday.
> 
> “Not a single Democrat has even taken the time to go and look at it,” Sanders told reporters, referring to a version of the report that is much less redacted than the version made public. *“They’re asking for information they know they can’t have. The attorney general is actually upholding the law.”*
> 
> Almost the entire report — 98.5 percent — is available in the version provided to Congress, according to the Department of Justice. The only redacted portions are grand jury information that by law cannot be disclosed, even to Congress.


Bold mine.

The laws are for the little people. We're talking the US Democrats here!


----------



## FeXL

The _Ninth_ Circus gets one right? :yikes:

Shock: The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Rules in Favor of Trump Admin on Asylum Policy



> The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday ruled that the Trump administration can continue to send Central American migrants back to Mexico while their requests for asylum in the U.S. are adjudicated. The three-judge panel struck down a lower court's preliminary injunction blocking the policy, allowing it to continue on a temporary basis while the court considers broader issues in the case.


Related:

Remember the ‘travel ban’? Lower courts seeking to ‘overturn’ that Supreme Court decision



> For several generations, we have been told by the political elites that the Supreme Court stands above the other two branches of government, even when the high court violates the Constitution or claims to decide a broad public policy question squarely within the purview or powers of the other branches. Now, it appears that any lower court can simply issue a ruling more progressive than what the Supreme Court just said, and the other branches feel compelled to abide by that ruling!


----------



## Beej

Some light weekend entertainment.

Alyssa Milano calls for a sex strike to protest anti-abortion laws, gets slammed on Twitter
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...strike-protest-anti-abortion-laws/1174983001/

Adopting 1980s socially conservative ideas to own the right.


----------



## FeXL

Walls Are Closing In: Brennan and Anonymous Official Named "Brohn Jennan" Accuse _Comey_ of Insisting on Putting Fake Steele Dossier in Official Intelligence Assessment; Comey Had Previously Accused _Brennan_ of Trying to Sneak It In



> Let me guess: Someone wanted it included in the ICA (intelligence community assessment) so that would give it official imprimatur and then it could be leaked.
> 
> And when it was rejected from the ICA, someone got creative and said, "Hey, let's pretend to brief Trump on this so it will have the official imprimatur of a real-deal Holyfield White House briefing, and then we can leak it."
> 
> As James Comey said: CNN told him they weren't publishing the dossier because they needed a quote unquote "news hook."
> 
> So who was it that schemed hardest on this dirty op?
> 
> Folks, this could be _funnnn_.


State Department Red Flag on Steele Dossier, Exposing It As Politically Motivated and Highly Inaccurate, Was Sent to Senior FBI Leader -- BEFORE the First FISA Application



> So, they took a document they knew was not reliable *and used it to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page (and really on Trump) anyway.*
> 
> And -- lied to the court about its reliability!


When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> Six Things About the Prosecutor Investigating Spying on Trump Campaign
> 
> Democrats recently excoriated Barr for even using the word “spy” to talk about actions by the Obama administration’s FBI and Justice Department against the Trump campaign before the presidential election in November 2016.
> 
> However, Democrats could have a difficult time in attacking Durham.
> 
> Confirmed as U.S. attorney in February 2018 by a voice vote in the Senate, he had gained praise from Democrats when Trump nominated him.
> 
> Among these admirers were two of Trump’s biggest critics, Connecticut’s two Democratic senators—Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy. The two men had recommended Durham to serve as U.S. attorney.
> 
> “John Durham has earned immense respect as a no-nonsense, fierce and fair prosecutor, and we are pleased that the White House has agreed with our recommendation that he serve as United States Attorney for the District of Connecticut,” a joint statement by Blumenthal and Murphy said. “As an Assistant United States Attorney, John Durham has proven himself time and time again in some of the most challenging and sensitive cases.”
> 
> It looks like Barr has found just such another case for Durham.​
> @johnrobertsFox – _Per our Jake Gibson: Sources tell @FoxNews that CT US Attorney John Durham has been working on the investigation into the origins of the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election and the Trump Campaign for “weeks.”_


Former FBI Assistant Director of Intelligence: Comey Should Be Worried



> Cucked-out pencil-neck incel sasquatch should start communing with lawyers instead of redwoods.
> 
> AG Barr understands well that the FBI is dead as an agency -- undeserving of the nation's trust -- if it is commonly perceived to be a weapon for political vagaries rather than an impartial, objective enforcer of the rule of law so vital to the survival of democratic governance.
> 
> These three initiatives will either validate Comey's claim that everything he and his team did was "by the book" or they will expose grievous abuses that will invite reforms to ensure this never happens again.​


Obama White House Kept Close Track of FOIA Request About Hillary Clinton's Emails -- A Request That, Coincidentally Enough, Wound Up Being Improperly Denied by the State Department



> A scandal-free administration.
> 
> * Emails released to Judicial Watch show for the first time that the Obama White House kept tabs on a FOIA request for information on Hillary Clinton’s emails that was improperly rejected by the State Department.
> 
> The State Department claimed in May 2013 in response to the FOIA request that no responsive records existed. The agency’s internal watchdog later determined that denial to be 'inaccurate and incomplete' since Clinton used a personal email account to conduct State Department business.
> 
> "These documents suggest the Obama White House knew about the Clinton email lies being told to the public at least as early as December 2012," says Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton.*​


All emphasis from the links.


----------



## FeXL

But...TRUMP!!!

Warren Has Proposed or Backed Plans Totaling Estimated $129 Trillion in Government Spending



> Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.) has backed or proposed plans during her 2020 presidential campaign that total up to $129 trillion in spending over the next 10 years, a _Washington Free Beacon_ analysis shows.
> 
> Along with backing the Green New Deal ($94 trillion) and Medicare for All ($32.6 trillion), which total $126.6 trillion in estimated government spending over the next decade according to various studies, three of Warren's major proposals alone cost $2.365 trillion: opioids ($100 billion), canceling student debt and offering free public college ($1.25 to $1.565 trillion), and universal child care ($700 billion).


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> But...TRUMP!!!
> 
> Warren Has Proposed or Backed Plans Totaling Estimated $129 Trillion in Government Spending


Yes, I hear he wasted $2 million on something. Don't worry, Freddie and CM have sniffed it out.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Don't worry, Freddie and CM have sniffed it out.


I feel better already!


----------



## FeXL

So, Freddie, this is what you've based your entire "Trump musta done sumthin', impeach him now!" narrative on?

The Same Guy Who Claimed There Was a Russian Embassy in Miami is The "Key Source" for Both the Pee-Pee Party Claim and the Whole Claim of an "Extensive Conspiracy" Between Trump and Russia



> It's all coming apart now.
> 
> ...
> 
> The thread lays out the documents confirming that "SOURCE E" is responsible for all these claims. *The guy who doesn't know where the Russian embassy is, but knows all about Russian KOMPROMAT missions and somehow knows that Trump is conspiring with Russia.*


Yeah, bold mine...


----------



## FeXL

Art Of The Deal



> Reuters;
> 
> China is running out of options to hit back at the United States without hurting its own interests, as Washington intensifies pressure on Beijing to correct trade imbalances in a challenge to China’s state-led economic model.
> 
> China said this week it would impose higher tariffs on most U.S. imports on a revised $60 billion target list. That’s a much shorter list compared with the $200 billion of Chinese products on which Washington has hiked tariffs.
> 
> Washington has also turned up the heat on other fronts, from targeting China’s tech firms such as
> Huawei and ZTE to sending warships through the strategic Taiwan Strait.
> […]
> 
> “The medium- to long-term ramifications on supply chains are being deeply underestimated. I would be severely concerned if I was China,” Robert Lawrence, a nonresident senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, recently told journalists in Beijing, where a group from the think-tank met with senior Chinese officials.​
> *Meanwhile in Chinada: Little Potato and the Red Dwarf will“not be rushed”…*


Bold mine.

The Red Dwarf, aka The Purple Perogy...


----------



## FeXL

'Magine that...

Trey Gowdy: Hillary Clinton's Chief Conspiracy Theorist and Cut-Rate Master of Whispers Sydney Blumenthal Was Used to "Corroborate" "Steele" Doissier



> Let's give a sarcastic slow-clap to Jonah Goldberg, David French, Cap'n Bill Kristol, Charlie 3-Wives Sykes, Jonathan V. Last, Noah Rothman, AllahPundit, Tom Nichols, and all the rest of the Salon Hot 25 All-Stars who have so vigorously pushed a conspiracy theory incepted into their highly suggestible, childlike I-Want-To-Believe minds by the famously conservative and famously reliable Sydney ****ing Blumenthal.
> 
> And of course repeat-offender rat****er Cody Shearer.
> 
> Thanks, Genius Thought-Leaders, for biting so hard on the dreamcakes, fantasy pudding, and conspiracy-cotton-candy imagineered for you by this pair.
> 
> We already have CNN and MSNBC, fellas.
> 
> What the **** do we need you for?


Ummm... Language warning?


----------



## CubaMark

_John Bolton doing his damndest to get the USA into a war with Iran.... Top British General says there's "no mounting threat" from Iran, so WTF, and the Pentagon's press briefing room? Well, they just gave it over to KISS Frontman Gene Simmonds. Yes, really. Welcome to Trump's America. _






As the frontman of KISS, Gene Simmons occupies rarefied air — a rock star who entertains arenas filled with adoring fans. On Thursday, Simmons joined another exclusive club, conducting only the second on-camera press briefing at the Department of Defense in the last year.








The only other person to stand at the Pentagon Briefing Room podium over the past year? The movie star Gerard Butler, who was there last October to promote a new movie.

It's just the latest sign of the Trump administration's ongoing marginalization of the press briefing, long a conduit through which the president and the cabinet have communicated policies and priorities to the news media and the public.

Simmons was on hand Thursday to address Department of Defense personnel and meet with outreach officials as part of a Pentagon initiative to engage the broader public with regards to military activities. He also paid a visit to the White House later in the day.

The last time a press secretary briefed reporters on camera at the Pentagon was May 31, 2018. The White House press briefing, meanwhile, is in the midst of an unprecedented drought. Come Friday, it will have been 67 days since White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders has held a press briefing.

"The White House hasn't held press briefing in so long that the lectern in the briefing room is quite literally gathering dust," CNN White House reporter Maegan Vazquez tweeted Wednesday, posting a photo of the particles that had collected on the lectern.









(Update: Reporters noted today that someone came in and dusted the podium)

(CNN)


----------



## Macfury

I wish the US had more open press briefings... like communist countries.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Why would you call a human life a mistake, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Thick as a brick. Whoosh, indeed.


----------



## FeXL

First of all, the Clinton News Network? Seriously?

Second, it's Gene _Simmons._ No "d". Do try to keep up.

Third, curious you never offered any criticism during the 8 year debacle of the clown prince, Barry Soetero.



CubaMark said:


> ...they just gave it over to KISS Frontman Gene Simmonds...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> First of all, the Clinton News Network? Seriously?
> 
> Second, it's Gene _Simmons._ No "d". Do try to keep up.
> 
> Third, curious you never offered any criticism during the 8 year debacle of the clown prince, Barry Soetero.


Gosh, you know, I never thought about it that way. You're absolutely right. Your cogent and detailed arguments have convinced me that my post was inadequate, lacking in substance, inappropriate, and most likely insulting to your (obviously vast) intelligence.

I sincerely apologize and pledge never to ever post anything that might contravene your worldview ever again.

My bad.

*/sar-f-ing-casm*
:lmao:


----------



## Beej

For weekend entertainment, the opposite of a woke progressive teen.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/OdaUDeAGIck/


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Beej said:


> For weekend entertainment, the opposite of a woke progressive teen.
> 
> https://www.bitchute.com/video/OdaUDeAGIck/




Breitbart? Puh-leeeze.


----------



## FeXL

You could have shortened your post to that. Not only would it have been more succinct, it would have been more accurate.



CubaMark said:


> Gosh, you know, I never thought.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Breitbart? Puh-leeeze.


Well, when you cannot tell the difference between Bitchute and Breibart can one only comment the same way? Puh-leeeze!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, when you cannot tell the difference between Bitchute and Breibart can one only comment the same way? Puh-leeeze!




Look closer. Read the link.


----------



## Macfury

A non-related link to a Breitbart article on another site triggered you?


----------



## FeXL

Trump trade war makes $89-billion profit



> President Trump’s Trade War with China is set to make an $89 billion profit after compensation payments for China tariffs against U.S. farmers.
> 
> Globalists claimed that Americans would suffer the greatest harm from President Trump’s Trade War with China. But it is China that is suffering its first current account deficit in 25 years, while the U.S. economy continues to see high growth.


----------



## FeXL

Booming -- and Tightening -- Job Market Has Predictable Effect: Workers Are Getting Their First Legitimate Raises in Decades



> US employers are stepping on the accelerator -- and that's lifting average salaries and fueling record raises across many sectors. For the typical American worker, pay increases could soon surge past 4 percent or 5 percent for the year, according to labor experts.
> 
> By any stretch, the number crunchers say, it's a big jump to catch up on the anemic salary growth over the past 10 years, thanks to the law of supply and demand and a booming economy. Job openings recently surpassed the number of unemployed by 1.3 million. And it's starting to trigger bottlenecks.​


But...OrangeManBad!!!


----------



## FeXL

In an Ultrafast Decision, An Obama Judge Immediately Rules That Trump May Not Block Congressional Harassment Efforts to Dig Into His Taxpayer Records



> Congress has no authority -- none-- to conduct a criminal investigation.
> 
> That's an Executive branch function.
> 
> But even assuming that Congress may exercise its pretend "oversight" function and it needs Trump's tax records to do that -- how the hell can it demand his private taxpayer records when he was a private individual with no connection to the US government?
> 
> That's what they did -- they demanded his last eight years of tax records.
> 
> He's only been a president for two, and he was only running for president since June of 2015 or so.
> 
> So now the Congressional Democrats can just demand private citizen tax records when they want to conduct a lawless vigilante invasion of privacy?
> 
> Indeed, says another Obama appointee -- in record time, as Mark Levin pointed out.


Related:

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> "The rule of law," "the appearance of impropriety," "an impartial judiciary." These and other phrases have become meaningless pablum to be tossed around to conceal the inarguable fact that we are no longer a nation of laws, but have descended into a third-world miasma of connections and favors and partisanship that is no longer hidden from the people because they will do nothing about it.
> 
> In another America, this judge would have recused himself immediately or faced impeachment. Now? He prances about, feeling oh-so-smug about his decision, and will surely become the toast of that incestuous bog called Washington DC.
> 
> Judge Who Ruled on Trump's Finances is an Obama Donor.


----------



## FeXL

Released Documents: Loretta Lynch Essentially Called James Comey a Liar, Claimed She Never Told Him to Refer to Clinton Email Investigation as Merely a "Matter"



> Put them both under oath and make them testify again.
> 
> First prize is, you get to walk away.
> 
> Second prize is prison for perjury.
> 
> Loretta Lynch DENIES telling Comey to refer to the Clinton email case as a "matter," rather than an investigation, directly contradicting statements made by Comey. SOMEONE IS LYING. pic.twitter.com/qb0U4Jopp3
> — Cory Groshek (@CoryGroshek) May 20, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> It’s getting crowded under that bus: Loretta Lynch denies telling James Comey to call Clinton investigation a ‘matter’
> 
> The readers are already digging through them at Conservative Treehouse: Moments ago Judiciary Committee ranking member Doug Collins released the transcripts of nine key figures from the House investigation into DOJ and FBI political activity.


----------



## FeXL

That study is obviously...RACIS'!!!

Nolte: Academic Study Shows Donald Trump Has Made America Less Racist



> Daniel J. Hopkins and Samantha Washington, two University of Pennsylvania sociologists, have been conducting a running study that measures the racial attitudes of 2,500 randomly selected Americans since 2008.
> 
> In their most recent report, the academics admit they expected to see an increase in racist opinions among the group, stating, “Normalization of prejudice or opinion leadership both lead us to expect that expressed prejudice may have increased in this period, especially among Republicans or Trump supporters.”
> 
> Instead…
> 
> What they found is a decrease in racism under Trump:


----------



## FeXL

2020 Democrat Ups the Ante, Unveils A $10 Trillion Climate Change Agenda



> Colorado Sen. Michael Bennet upped the ante on how much cash he wants to fight climate change, according to a plan his presidential campaign released Monday.
> 
> Bennet, one of 24 prominent Democrats running for president in 2020, unveiled a plan to create a Climate Bank to “catalyze $10 trillion in private sector investment in innovation and infrastructure” aimed at tackling global warming and creating millions of jobs, according to his website.
> 
> “The Climate Bank will collaborate with states and the private sector, not Washington, to deploy U.S. capital to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and decrease climate risks faster than current market conditions allow,” Bennet’s website reads.


But will the Climate Bank deliver the mail?


----------



## FeXL

DNA Tests Reveal 30% Of Suspected Fraudulent Migrant Families Were Unrelated



> A DHS pilot program using rapid DNA testing at the border has found that nearly a third of Adults bringing kids across the border weren’t biologically related to the children in their custody. We’re not talking about step-parents, adoptive parents, etc., it is all about kids being used as a tool to get across the border.
> 
> Per the Washington Examiner, an ICE official told them, “There’s been some concern about, ‘Are they stepfathers or adopted fathers?'” the official said. “Those were not the case. In these cases, they are misrepresented as family members.”
> 
> Children are being used as a “get out of jail free” card for illegal aliens to get into America. Adults, even unrelated adults know if they have children with them, they will probably be allowed to stay in the country. *Border agents have also encountered recycling rings, where innocent kids are used multiple times to help aliens gain illegal entry*


Bold mine...

Related:

From a commenter:



> I understand the problems in incarcerating large numbers of people. I understand the politics and how easy it is to make a social issue out of this if we hold them. But what I don't understand is why the laws apply to citizens but non-citizens especially illegal aliens don't have to face consequences of breaking our laws. I don't understand why it is I have to fill out an I-9 to get a job and only certain state or federal ID is satisfactory and illegals have zero requirements in fact the government goes out of their way to make it easier for them. *I don't understand why the TSA can make me take my clothes off and feel me and my family up at the airport but 100,000 non-citizens from god knows where can cross our border freely, get a hot meal, an airplane ride to U.S. cities and a briefing on how to apply for welfare and housing.* WTF is wrong with my government???


Bold mine.

Questions, questions, questions...


----------



## CubaMark

_With Trump personifying a blinding glare of idiocy and incompetence, it's easy to forget the other absolute "winners" /sarcasm in his government. It's been awhile since we checked in with (OMG a surgeon? Really? This guy?) Ben Carson, head of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). To call him 'disconnected' from his job (if not reality in general) would be an understatement:_

*Ben Carson confused 'REO' (HUD real estate term) with 'Oreo' (the cookie)*










Ben Carson, who is not known for being the sharpest knife in the drawer, made a real doozy of a gaffe today on Capitol Hill.

The Trump administration's Housing and Urban Development Secretary was testifying at a House Financial Services Committee oversight hearing in Washington on Tuesday, and confused 'REO,' meaning HUD real estate owned, with 'OREO,' the delicious sandwich cookie that has two chocolate wafers and creamy vanilla filling.

Carson was going back and forth pompously with freshman Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.), and he asked if she was referring to an “Oreo.”

He really did.

From Katie O'Donnell Politico:

_REO homes are acquired by HUD after a foreclosure on a Federal Housing Agency-insured mortgage, and Porter said foreclosure rates for such properties were higher than for homes not backed by the FHA.

She asked Carson to “explain the disparity in REO rates — do you know what an REO is?”

“An Oreo?” Carson responded.

“No, not an Oreo. An R-E-O. R-E-O,” Porter said, prompting Carson to offer, “real estate?”

“Real estate owned – that’s what happens when a property goes into foreclosure, we call it an REO, and FHA loans have much higher REOs, that is, they go into foreclosure rather than into loss mitigation or to non-foreclosure alternatives like short sales, than comparable loans” at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, said Porter, who later tweeted out the exchange._​
(BoingBoing)​


----------



## Macfury

But of course, silence from our resident communist when Obama flubbed basic competency in military chain of command.

Meanwhile Porter went on to explain:



> "Respectfully, that was my day job before I came to Congress," Porter later said to Carson, in response to him saying he could connect her with the people at HUD who work on foreclosures. "I spent a decade working with the people at HUD on this problem."


Carson acknowledged his temporary flub with grace and humour by offering Porter a box of cookies:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> But of course, silence from our resident communist when Obama flubbed basic competency in military chain of command.


Or Jug Ears' "57 states".

'Sides, didn't The Bigot recently quip, "A lot of people say a lot of things"? Where's the latitude granted the left?


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ an emergency...

For Second Month, More Than 100,000 Apprehended Illegally Crossing the Border



> U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents apprehended more than 109,000 individuals attempting to illegally cross the southwestern border in April, the agency announced Wednesday.
> 
> This figure makes for another increase over March's record-busting 103,000 apprehensions, and thereby another month of what even Obama-administration officials now acknowledge is a crisis at the Mexican border. CBP noted on Twitter that as of this past Sunday, seven months into the fiscal year, 2019 apprehensions have exceeded the annual total for all years since 2009.


----------



## FeXL

Nearly 2/3 Of Dems Approve Of Presidential Candidates Having Fox News Town Halls



> Nearly two-thirds of Democrats approve of presidential candidates having town halls on Fox News, according to a new Morning Consult/Politico poll released Wednesday.
> 
> Of the Democrats surveyed, 64% believe that it’s either “very appropriate” or “somewhat appropriate” for a Democratic candidate to go on the conservative network, whereas only 17% believe it’s either “somewhat” or “very inappropriate.”
> 
> The poll offers insight into what’s recently been a hot topic: whether or not Democratic candidates go on Fox News.
> 
> Thus far, independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar and South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg have already hosted a town hall on the network. The ratings for Sanders’ appearance ranks first among presidential town halls this election cycle on any of the cable networks, while Klobuchar comes in at third. Buttigieg trailed behind them both because his took place on the weekend.
> 
> New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand is scheduled to have one during the first week in June.
> 
> Others, including California Rep. Eric Swalwell and former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke have expressed a desire to participate in the event.
> 
> Fellow presidential candidate Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren announced last week that she would not host a presidential town hall on Fox News claiming it is “a hate-for-profit racket that gives a megaphone to racists and conspiracists.”


<snort>


----------



## FeXL

That clap of thunder you just heard was hundreds of Prog sphincters slamming shut...

Trump gives AG Barr authority to declassify documents related to 2016 campaign surveillance



> President Trump on Thursday night issued a memo giving Attorney General William Barr the authority to declassify any documents related to surveillance of the Trump campaign in 2016.
> 
> Trump also ordered the intelligence community to cooperate with Barr. The memo read: "The heads of elements of the intelligence community... and the heads of each department or agency that includes an element of the intelligence community shall promptly provide such assistance and information as the Attorney General may request in connection with that review."
> 
> "Today, at the request and recommendation of the Attorney General of the United States, President Donald J. Trump directed the intelligence community to quickly and fully cooperate with the Attorney General’s investigation into surveillance activities during the 2016 Presidential election," White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement.


Related:

Trump Orders Intelligence Agencies to Cooperate With AG Barr's Investigation; First Round of Declassified Documents Being Prepped for Release



> Wait, are you telling me they weren't cooperating before?
> 
> That's not possible. I'm told they're straight-shooters and the very best of us.


Related, too:

(comments hilarious)

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> Now, watch the rats scramble.
> 
> ….during the 2016 Presidential election. The Attorney General has also been delegated full and complete authority to declassify information pertaining to this investigation, in accordance with the long-established standards for handling classified information….
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 24, 2019​


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## FeXL

Ah. Good ol' Uncle Joe...

Biden Touches Girl At Rally Despite Pledge To Respect Women's Space, Gets Slammed Online



> Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden stirred ire on social media on Tuesday after he touched a young girl at a campaign rally despite pledging last month to be "much more mindful" about not invading people's personal space without their permission.


More:



> Washington Post national political reporter Felicia Sonmez also documented the incident, tweeting: "*In a somewhat odd moment at tonight's AFT town hall, Biden tells a 10-year-old girl, 'I’ll bet you’re as bright as you are good-looking.'* He takes her over to the assembled reporters, then stands behind her and puts his hands on her shoulders while he's talking."


Bold mine.

Related:

Would You Like To Come Out To My Campaign Bus To See The Puppies?


----------



## FeXL

"In case"?

Obama-Era Politicos Prepare 'Pre-Excuses' Just In Case Trump Wins Re-Election



> Two high-profile members of the Obama administration are trying to get out ahead of the game, making a series of excuses for a potential Democratic loss that's still more than a year away.
> 
> Steve Rattner, the former president's Treasury Secretary, and Jon Favreau, an Obama administration speechwriter who has since become a prominent political commentator, both claimed Monday that a Democratic loss may be inevitable, but that *Democrats, who are running on a platform much further to the left than should sit well with a majority of American voters, definitely don't have themselves to blame.*


Bold mine.

Nope. The Fruit Loops & Whackos have nothing to be ashamed of...


----------



## FeXL

Mike Pompeo: Why Yes, It Happens to Be True That John Kerry Is Violating the Logan Act



> Again, for those of you who say the Logan Act is unconstitutional and a dead-letter non-law, because no one has ever been convicted under it and no one has been charged under it since, I believe, 1809 -- that's all true, but don't forget, _Sally Yates_ used the Logan Act as a pretext to open an investigation into Michael Flynn for talking to representatives of other countries _when he was part of the Trump transition team._
> 
> So open an investigation into John Kerry. Per Obama precedent, THE LOGAN ACT IS REAL, YO.
> 
> Put him under oath and subpoena all his financial records going back 8 years._ Justice requires no less._


Do it!


----------



## Macfury

I see that Freddie posted a chart a few days ago, that shows how Republicans rarely choose to prosecute Democrats for their copious crimes in office. It certainly demonstrates restraint and respect for the law.


----------



## SINC

*Sean Hannity: Mueller ‘Doesn't Know the Law’ and ‘He’s Full of Crap’*

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-...w-and-hes-full-of-crap?source=TDB&via=FB_Page


----------



## CubaMark

*Jeebus. 'murica. 'nuff said.*

“Increasing export capacity from the Freeport LNG project is critical to spreading *freedom gas* throughout the world by giving America’s allies a diverse and affordable source of clean energy... 

...this Administration’s commitment to promoting American energy, American jobs, and the American economy. Further, increased supplies of U.S. natural gas on the world market are critical to advancing clean energy and the energy security of our allies around the globe. With the U.S. in another year of record-setting natural gas production, I am pleased that the Department of Energy is doing what it can to promote an efficient regulatory system that allows for *molecules of U.S. freedom *to be exported to the world,” said Assistant Secretary for Fossil Energy Steven Winberg...

(US Dept. of Energy via Slate and The Guardian UK)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

It's truly unfortunate that there aren't any Canadians holding the reins who have the foresight to cash in on some of that worldwide natural gas (and petroleum) market.



CubaMark said:


> Blah, blah-blah, blah-blah-blah.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> It's truly unfortunate that there aren't any Canadians holding the reins who have the foresight to cash in on some of that worldwide natural gas (and petroleum) market.


I kind of like it, but I can see how it might be too bright and creative a concept for the denizens of the dank halls of socialism.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I kind of like it, but I can see how it might be too bright and creative a concept for the denizens of the dank halls of socialism.


Progs: hydrocarbons—>EVIL!!!

This, despite the fact that everyone of the bastards directly and/or indirectly uses and/or benefits from them...


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Huge: British Spies Tried to Warn The US and Trump About Christopher Steele's Shaky Credibility; _Were Those Warnings "Lost" in the Mail?_



> One of the deepest, darkest secrets of Russiagate soon may be unmasked. Even President Trump may be surprised.
> 
> Multiple witnesses have told Congress that, a week before Trump's inauguration in January 2017, Britain's top national security official sent a private communique to the incoming administration, addressing his country's participation in the counterintelligence probe into the now-debunked Trump-Russia election collusion.
> 
> Most significantly, then-British national security adviser Sir Mark Lyall Grant claimed in the memo, hand-delivered to incoming U.S. national security adviser Mike Flynn's team, that the British government lacked confidence in the credibility of former MI6 spy Christopher Steele's Russia collusion evidence, according to congressional investigators who interviewed witnesses familiar with the memo.​
> But for some reason this warning was buried. Michael Flynn, for example -- the intended recipient of the warning -- says he never received it.


----------



## FeXL

From the "How to fund a border wall" department...

Art Of The Deal



> Jumpin' ju-ju beans. Mexican Tariffs:
> 5% effective June 10th
> 10% effective July 1st
> 15% effective August 1st
> 20% effective September 1st
> 25% effective October 1st, and continuing therein until Mexico takes action to stop the flow of Central American migrants. https://t.co/WoSZgh80Zn
> 
> — TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) May 30, 2019​


And this:



> *Pay attention, junior.*


Bold mine.

Nails it.

Related:

Trump Takes MAJOR Action Against Mexico To Stop Illegal Immigration



> President Donald Trump announced that the United States is slapping Mexico with massive tariffs for not stopping the flow of illegal aliens into the United States and that the tariffs are going to steadily increase until Mexico fixes the problem.
> 
> "On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP," Trump tweeted. "The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied, at which time the Tariffs will be removed. Details from the White House to follow."


Brilliant...

Related, too:

Nearly 9-in-10 Illegal Aliens Recently Released into U.S. Not Showing Up to Court Hearings



> Nearly 9-in-10 illegal aliens who have been recently released into the interior of the United States while they await their asylum hearings are not showing up to their court dates, according to a federal pilot program.


Related, three (~Becauth ith's 2015!):

His basic dictatorship...

...is running right on schedule...



> Canada’s backlog of asylum claims will likely *reach 100,000 by the end of 2021* before stabilizing, up from 75,000 today, the chairperson of the Immigration and Refugee Board told a parliamentary committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The board’s goal now is to *manage the growth of the backlog rather than to reduce it,* Richard Wex told the committee.


More:



> Hang on, let's do the math...
> 
> "Costs per migrant are also expected to go up as the years go on, hitting an average of $16,666 per migrant for those that arrive in the year 2019."​
> *That's 1.7 billion dollars.*


Bold mine.

_Per year..._


----------



## FeXL

Arkancide?

Former Arkansas State Senator Found Shot Dead In Her Own Home



> A former Republican Arkansas state Senator was found dead in her home, having sustained a lethal gunshot wound.


More:



> Collins-Smith served in the state House of Representatives from 2011 to 2013, switching from a Democrat to a Republican months after becoming elected.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Arkancide?
> 
> Former Arkansas State Senator Found Shot Dead In Her Own Home
> More:


No information in the article that would have made her a threat to either of the Clintons, so I am holding back on including her in the Arkancided list. 

That said Seth Rich and many, many, many others seem to have paid the extreme price for crossing or merely posing a threat to either of the Clintons.


----------



## eMacMan

.


----------



## eMacMan

Nor you nasty Baptist florists.
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/pol...nds-by-discrimination-verdict-on-13951353.php



> The Washington State Supreme Court has reaffirmed that a Richland, Washington florist broke state consumer and discrimination laws in refusing to provide floral arrangements for the same-sex wedding of a longtime client.
> 
> The state high court ruled after being told by the U.S. Supreme Court to take a second look at its decision in the case of Arlene's Flowers and its owner Barronelle Stutzman.
> 
> The U.S. Supreme Court had ruled, in the case of a Colorado baker who refused to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, that the state had demonstrated "a clear and impermissible hostility to religion." It ruled for the baker.


----------



## FeXL

Oh, do tell...

Mexico Claims Some Migrant Caravan Funding Came from U.S., England



> Mexican tax officials froze the assets of 26 individuals and entities they allege are tied to human smuggling organizations or to promoting Central American migrant caravans. The caravans moved thousands of individuals from the “northern triangle” through Mexico to the U.S. border. The funding for the migrant caravans allegedly came from the U.S., England, Africa, and Central America.


First off, curious how quickly Mexico has dealt with this issue after threats of massive tariffs were given.

Second, wonder if one of those American funders rhymes with Soros...

Related:

(BTW, NOT an emergency...)

DHS Frees 5.5K Illegal Aliens into U.S. in a Week; 196K Released in 5 Months



> From May 28 to June 3, DHS released 5,500 border crossers and illegal aliens into American communities in various states across the country. The latest federal data, obtained by Breitbart News, finds that DHS, in the last week, released nearly 800 border crossers and illegal aliens into the U.S. every single day.
> 
> The catch and release process often entails federal immigration officials busing border crossers into nearby border cities — as well as flying them into the interior of the country — and dropping them off with the hope they show up for their immigration and asylum hearings. The overwhelming majority of border crossers and illegal aliens are never deported from the country once they are released into the U.S.


Can you imagine the hue & cry from the left if there were half a million illegal Republican voters entering the US every year?


----------



## Macfury

Meanwhile, in kook fringe New York State:

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Driver-s-license-bill-moves-forward-in-Assembly-13939490.php



> *A controversial bill that would give roughly 265,000 undocumented immigrants the chance to get a New York driver's licenses is moving forward *in the state Assembly, but faces an uncertain fate in the Senate as the legislative session rushes to an end.
> 
> The measure sailed through the Assembly Transportation Committee Wednesday, with negative votes from the Republican minority, clearing the way for a possible floor vote next week. Speaker Carl Heastie said he would prioritize the bill, and advocates are confident it will pass.
> 
> "The purpose of the bill is to provide a little more safety to the people of the state of New York by making sure that people who are on the road have a valid license and are driving according to the rules of the road," said Assembly transportation committee chair Bill Magnarelli, a Democrat from Syracuse.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Meanwhile, in kook fringe New York State:
> 
> https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Driver-s-license-bill-moves-forward-in-Assembly-13939490.php


I really don't get it. Maybe they should just remove all immigration laws and let people flood in and then see how much they like what comes from it?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> "The purpose of the bill is to provide a little more safety to the people of the state of New York by making sure that people who are on the road have a valid license and are driving according to the rules of the road," said Assembly transportation committee chair Bill Magnarelli, a Democrat from Syracuse.
Click to expand...

WTF?

This idiot needs to take a logic class.


----------



## FeXL

I'm with Ace on this one.

Americans Say "Fake News" is a Greater Threat Than Climate Change, Racism



> Kind of a mixed bag on that finding. *It's not a good thing that people are silly enough to think that Fake News is the biggest threat this country faces -- an even greater threat than terrorism! (???) -- but it's a consolation to know that they have dropped climate change and the nation's dwindling Racism Reserves down the list.*


Bold mine.

Yep.


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ an emergency...

The first large group of 116 migrants from AFRICA are caught on video wading across the Rio Grande to illegally enter the U.S.



> Shocking video has emerged showing the first large group of migrants from Africa wading across the Rio Grande River to illegally enter the United States.
> 
> The video shared by the Customs and Border Protection shows a group of 116 people from Angola, Cameroon and the Congo walking through the waist-deep water into Texas.
> 
> Male and female adults are seen making the laborious trek with children clinging onto their shoulders on Thursday.


----------



## CubaMark

Trump has been roasted the last couple of days for something he said regarding NASA, but or the wrong reasons. The Guardian reported Trump's Friday morning tweet:



*The Guardian noted: *

"The tweet triggered a round of mockery from people pointing out that Earth’s moon is not part of Mars."​
People who mocked Trump for apparently saying that the Moon was a part of Mars weren't parsing the tweet correctly: he was—in his typically mangled way—saying that NASA's mission to the Moon is "a part of" the longer-term Mars mission. 

However... the tweet is outright weird because:

"Trump’s tweet came three few weeks after said his administration was “restoring NASA to greatness” and that the U.S. was “going back to the moon, then Mars.”

That was part of an announcement in which he said he was updating his budget to include $1.6 billion so that America could return to space in a “BIG WAY!”"​
*and*

"The president’s tweet came on the same day that [Trump-appointed NASA Administrator Jim] Bridenstine told the International Space Development Conference that, “the very first space policy directive of the president said, ‘we’re going to go back to the moon,'”"​
*Even more curiously:*

"The Guardian noted that Trump’s tweet came one hour after Fox News guest Neil Cavuto questioned why NASA is focusing on the moon as its “next sort of quest.”

“Didn’t we do this moon thing quite a few decades ago?” Cavuto asked."​
So once again, it seems that Trump makes policy based off of what he sees on Fox News.... and that should scare the crap out of everyone....


----------



## Macfury

He said they were going to the moon and then Mars. Sorry you were confused, CM.


----------



## Beej

The cruelty of "anti-racism" outrage mobs.

'All-white company' wrongly accused immigrant author of racism, $13M lawsuit claims
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...its-actions-metro-shaming-scandal/1395567001/


> The lawsuit contends that initially, a representative from Rare Bird did not object to her explanation: "Having not grown up in the United States, the issue of race had not even occurred" to Tynes.
> 
> But a later public statement on Twitter by Rare Bird described her actions as "truly horrible" and said "black women face a constant barrage of this kind of inappropriate behavior directed toward them and a constant policing of their bodies."
> 
> The lawsuit says Tynes faced death threats and harassment on social media and – fearing for her safety – temporarily left the country. Meanwhile, Rare Bird enjoyed mostly positive reactions on social media and gained valuable public exposure, the lawsuit contends.


Note how the company involved quickly got out in front with the finger pointing.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He said they were going to the moon and then Mars. Sorry you were confused, CM.


What I find most interesting is when, with all the legitimate criticism that could be levelled at Trump, Progs pick fluff like this crap to make a stand on.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> What I find most interesting is when, with all the legitimate criticism that could be levelled at Trump, Progs pick fluff like this crap to make a stand on.


Worse in CM's case. He wants to see space exploration, but is so blinded by his hatred that he attacks Trump for advocating it.


----------



## CubaMark

Y'all have a serious comprehension problem. Or you're being facetious. 

It would be :lmao: if it weren't so


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

You aren't exactly in a position to be lecturing _anybody_ on these boards about comprehension issues...



CubaMark said:


> Y'all have a serious comprehension problem.


----------



## Macfury

This is touted as a great accomplishment for a Democrat:



> SOUTH BEND, Ind. — It was 2016 and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg had a problem.
> 
> Wanting to coax the small city's approximately 4,500 undocumented immigrants out of the shadows to help them access services, Buttigieg toyed with the idea of some type of municipal identification card for those who couldn't obtain driver's licenses or other government ID's.
> 
> The result was an innovative, first-of-its-kind governmentally endorsed, privately run program — one Buttigieg could tout on the presidential primary campaign trail where Latinos are a key voting group. But he never does.
> 
> Working closely with La Casa de Amistad, South Bend's main Latino outreach center, Buttigieg and the nonprofit's executive director, Sam Centellas, imagined a "Community Resident Card" program in which the IDs would be paid for, created and distributed by the group — a private organization — not the city.
> 
> Buttigieg's part to make it all work was to sign an executive order requiring local services and institutions — like law enforcement, schools, the water utility and libraries — to accept the card as a valid form of identification. The city also enlisted local businesses, such as financial institutions and drugstores, so cardholders could open bank accounts and pick up prescriptions.
> 
> As a result, undocumented immigrants in South Bend are now able to partake in many routine aspects of daily life. And they can do so without fear that their names or immigration status might end up in the hands of authorities or anti-immigrant groups. That's because La Casa, as a private organization, isn't bound by requests for public records the way the city might be if it were running the program.
> 
> Centellas said his group doesn't even keep a list of people with cards, which each cost $25 for those who can afford to pay.
> *
> "It's a great way to provide benefits to people without the strings and risks attached to a traditional municipal ID card," Centellas said.*


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...ent-he-never-mentions-campaign-trail-n1015251

Unbelievable.


----------



## FeXL

Chuck Ross: Barr/DOJ Investigation Into Spying Is "Broad in Scope and Multifaceted;" Will Also Look at Non-State Actors Such as NGOs and... Individuals



> Before now, we had the cover story that Fusion GPS hired Steele, with Hillary Clinton unaware of what Fusion was doing in her name.
> 
> This seems less likely now:
> 
> WASHINTON—*Former British spy Christopher Steele, author of the infamous anti-Trump dossier bearing his name, was introduced by a key State Department aide to top executives of a firm founded by President Bill Clinton's former White House Chief of Staff Mack McLarty, according to documents made public on June 10 by Judicial Watch.*
> 
> 
> In multiple email threads included in the documents, *Jonathan Winer, then the U.S. Department of State's special coordinator for Libya, acts repeatedly on behalf of Steele, arranging meetings for him with other current and former top U.S. officials, as well as influential consultants and strategists like those at the McLarty firm.*
> 
> Did Hillary ask Fusion to hire him to re-write the Blumenthal/Shearer "Dossier" to give it a veneer of credibility?​


Links' bold.


----------



## eMacMan

A couple of parallel parodies of the Hillary debacle. Same theme different lyrics. I prefer the first.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDNYYMK29AU[/ame]



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOwSaSl_PGk[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark

Lots of you on the political Right weren't fans of *Jon Stewart* during his run as host of The Daily Show - that's an understatement. But you have to give props to this guy for his steadfast advocacy on behalf of 9/11 first responders, fighting for health care coverage as they disproportionately fall ill with cancer and respiratory illnesses caused by their exposure to the disaster scene 18 years ago....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5FTrIZN-E[/ame]


*Transcript:*

_I want to thank Mr​.​ Collins and Mr. Nadler for putting this together​. But as I sit here today, I can’t help but think what an incredible metaphor this room is for the entire process that getting health care benefits for 9/11 first​ responders has come to. Behind me, a filled room of 9/11 first​ responders and in front of me, a nearly empty ​Congress.

Sick and dying, they brought themselves down here to speak to no one. Shameful. It’s an embarrassment to the country and it’s a stain on this institution. And you should be ashamed of yourselves for those that aren’t here. But you won’t be because accountability doesn’t appear to be something that occurs in this chamber. We don’t want to be here. Lou ​(Alvarez) ​doesn’t want to be here. None of these people want to be here. But they are, and they’re not here for themselves. They’re here to continue fighting for what’s right.

Lou’s going to go back for his 69th chemo. The great Ray Pfeifer would come down here, his body riddled with cancer and pain, where he couldn’t walk, and the disrespect shown to him and to the other lobbyists on this bill is utterly unacceptable.

Y​ou know, I would be so angry at the latest injustice that’s been done to these men and women. Another business card thrown our way as a way of shooing us away like children trick-or-treating rather than the heroes that they are and will always be. Ray would say, “Calm down​,​ Jonny, calm down. I got all the cards I need.” And he would tap his pocket where he kept prayer cards. Three hundred forty-three firefighters.

The official FDNY response time to 9/11 was ​five seconds. ​Five seconds. That’s how long it took for FDNY, for NYPD, for Port Authority, EMS to respond to an urgent need from the public. ​Five seconds. Hundreds died in an instant. Thousands more poured in to continue to fight for their brothers and sisters.

The breathing problems started almost immediately and they were told they weren’t sick, they were crazy. And then, as the illnesses got worse, and things became more apparent, “​W​ell​,​ okay, you’re sick​,​ but it’s not from the pile.” And then when the science became irrefutable, “​O​kay, it’s the pile, but this is a New York issue. I don’t know if we have the money.”

And I’m sorry if I sound angry and undiplomatic. But I’m angry, and you should be too, and they’re all angry as well and they have every justification to be that way. There is not a person here, there is not an empty chair on that stage that didn’t tweet out “Never Forget the heroes of 9/11. Never forget their bravery. Never forget what they did, what they gave to this country.” Well, here they are. And where are they? And it would be one thing if their callous indifference and rank hypocrisy were benign, but it’s not. Your indifference cost these men and women their most valuable commodity: time. It’s the one thing they’re running out of.

This should be flipped, this hearing should be flipped. These men and women should be up on that stage and Congress should be down here answering their questions as to why this is so damn hard and takes so damn long​,​ and why no matter what they get, something’s always pulled back and they gotta come back.

Mr. ​(Mike) ​Johnson​ (R-La.)​, you made a point earlier and it is one we’ve heard over and over again in these halls, and I couldn’t help but to answer ​i​t​,​ which was you guys are obviously heroes and 9/11 was a big deal but we have a lot of stuff here to do and we’ve got to make sure there’s money for a variety of disasters, hurricanes and tornadoes​. But this wasn’t a hurricane. And this wasn’t a tornado, and by the way, that’s your job anyway. We can’t fund these programs. You can.

Setting aside that​,​ no American in this country should face financial ruin because of a health issue. Certainly 9/11 first​ ​responders shouldn’t decide whether to live or to have a place to live. And the idea that you can give them only ​five more years of the VCF because you’re not quite sure what’s gonna happen ​five years from now​. Well, I can tell you, I’m pretty sure what’s going to happen ​five years from now. More of these men and women are going to get sick and they are going to die. And I am awfully tired of hearing that it’s a 9/11 New York issue. Al Qaeda didn’t shout “Death to Tribeca.” They attacked ​America​,​ and these men and women and their response to it is what brought our country back. It’s what gave a reeling nation a solid foundation to stand back upon. To remind us of why this country is great, of why this country is worth fighting for.

And you are ignoring them. You can end it tomorrow. Why this bill isn’t unanimous consent and a standalone issue is beyond my comprehension​, and I’ve yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why it’ll get stuck in some transportation bill or some appropriations bill and get sent over to the Senate, where a certain someone from the ​Senate will use it as a political football to get themselves maybe another new import tax on petroleum, because that’s what happened to us in 2015.

And we won’t allow it to happen again. Thank God for people like John Feals, thank God for people like Ray Pfeifer, thank God for all these people who will not let it happen. They responded in ​five seconds. They did their jobs with courage, grace, tenacity, humility. ​Eighteen years later, do yours. 

Thank you._








​


----------



## FeXL

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often...


----------



## FeXL

What could they possibly be afraid of?

Obama White House Deleted Online Speeches About The Immigration Crisis Hours Before Trump Entered Office: Report



> The Obama administration deleted hundreds of speeches and statements on the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) website just hours before President Donald Trump officially entered office, according to research released Tuesday.
> 
> A collection of 190 transcripts of speeches on ICE’s website was deleted on Jan. 18 and late in the evening on Jan. 19, 2017, according to research conducted by the Sunlight Foundation, a nonpartisan organization that advocates for government transparency. Statements made by high-ranking ICE officials regarding controversial immigration topics such as sanctuary cities, E-Verify, treatment of detainees, and other issues were included in the reported deletions.
> 
> “With a couple of clicks of a mouse, access to a federal government web resource containing 12 years of primary source materials on ICE’s history was lost,” the Sunlight Foundation wrote, noting that archived speeches dating back from 2004 were among those deleted.
> 
> Speeches from former acting ICE Director Thomas Homan, a public supporter of Trump’s immigration policies, were among those prominently included in the deletion list.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Lots of you on the political Right weren't fans of *Jon Stewart* during his run as host of The Daily Show - that's an understatement. But you have to give props to this guy for his steadfast advocacy on behalf of 9/11 first responders, fighting for health care coverage as they disproportionately fall ill with cancer and respiratory illnesses caused by their exposure to the disaster scene 18 years ago....
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5FTrIZN-E[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Transcript:*
> 
> 
> 
> _I want to thank Mr​.​ Collins and Mr. Nadler for putting this together​. But as I sit here today, I can’t help but think what an incredible metaphor this room is for the entire process that getting health care benefits for 9/11 first​ responders has come to. Behind me, a filled room of 9/11 first​ responders and in front of me, a nearly empty ​Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> Sick and dying, they brought themselves down here to speak to no one. Shameful. It’s an embarrassment to the country and it’s a stain on this institution. And you should be ashamed of yourselves for those that aren’t here. But you won’t be because accountability doesn’t appear to be something that occurs in this chamber. We don’t want to be here. Lou ​(Alvarez) ​doesn’t want to be here. None of these people want to be here. But they are, and they’re not here for themselves. They’re here to continue fighting for what’s right.
> 
> 
> 
> Lou’s going to go back for his 69th chemo. The great Ray Pfeifer would come down here, his body riddled with cancer and pain, where he couldn’t walk, and the disrespect shown to him and to the other lobbyists on this bill is utterly unacceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> Y​ou know, I would be so angry at the latest injustice that’s been done to these men and women. Another business card thrown our way as a way of shooing us away like children trick-or-treating rather than the heroes that they are and will always be. Ray would say, “Calm down​,​ Jonny, calm down. I got all the cards I need.” And he would tap his pocket where he kept prayer cards. Three hundred forty-three firefighters.
> 
> 
> 
> The official FDNY response time to 9/11 was ​five seconds. ​Five seconds. That’s how long it took for FDNY, for NYPD, for Port Authority, EMS to respond to an urgent need from the public. ​Five seconds. Hundreds died in an instant. Thousands more poured in to continue to fight for their brothers and sisters.
> 
> 
> 
> The breathing problems started almost immediately and they were told they weren’t sick, they were crazy. And then, as the illnesses got worse, and things became more apparent, “​W​ell​,​ okay, you’re sick​,​ but it’s not from the pile.” And then when the science became irrefutable, “​O​kay, it’s the pile, but this is a New York issue. I don’t know if we have the money.”
> 
> 
> 
> And I’m sorry if I sound angry and undiplomatic. But I’m angry, and you should be too, and they’re all angry as well and they have every justification to be that way. There is not a person here, there is not an empty chair on that stage that didn’t tweet out “Never Forget the heroes of 9/11. Never forget their bravery. Never forget what they did, what they gave to this country.” Well, here they are. And where are they? And it would be one thing if their callous indifference and rank hypocrisy were benign, but it’s not. Your indifference cost these men and women their most valuable commodity: time. It’s the one thing they’re running out of.
> 
> 
> 
> This should be flipped, this hearing should be flipped. These men and women should be up on that stage and Congress should be down here answering their questions as to why this is so damn hard and takes so damn long​,​ and why no matter what they get, something’s always pulled back and they gotta come back.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. ​(Mike) ​Johnson​ (R-La.)​, you made a point earlier and it is one we’ve heard over and over again in these halls, and I couldn’t help but to answer ​i​t​,​ which was you guys are obviously heroes and 9/11 was a big deal but we have a lot of stuff here to do and we’ve got to make sure there’s money for a variety of disasters, hurricanes and tornadoes​. But this wasn’t a hurricane. And this wasn’t a tornado, and by the way, that’s your job anyway. We can’t fund these programs. You can.
> 
> 
> 
> Setting aside that​,​ no American in this country should face financial ruin because of a health issue. Certainly 9/11 first​ ​responders shouldn’t decide whether to live or to have a place to live. And the idea that you can give them only ​five more years of the VCF because you’re not quite sure what’s gonna happen ​five years from now​. Well, I can tell you, I’m pretty sure what’s going to happen ​five years from now. More of these men and women are going to get sick and they are going to die. And I am awfully tired of hearing that it’s a 9/11 New York issue. Al Qaeda didn’t shout “Death to Tribeca.” They attacked ​America​,​ and these men and women and their response to it is what brought our country back. It’s what gave a reeling nation a solid foundation to stand back upon. To remind us of why this country is great, of why this country is worth fighting for.
> 
> 
> 
> And you are ignoring them. You can end it tomorrow. Why this bill isn’t unanimous consent and a standalone issue is beyond my comprehension​, and I’ve yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why it’ll get stuck in some transportation bill or some appropriations bill and get sent over to the Senate, where a certain someone from the ​Senate will use it as a political football to get themselves maybe another new import tax on petroleum, because that’s what happened to us in 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> And we won’t allow it to happen again. Thank God for people like John Feals, thank God for people like Ray Pfeifer, thank God for all these people who will not let it happen. They responded in ​five seconds. They did their jobs with courage, grace, tenacity, humility. ​Eighteen years later, do yours.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




I was impressed by Mr. Stewart’s speech. No matter what side of the political spectrum you’re on, it’s hard to deny our first responders deserve to be cared for.


----------



## FeXL

As a prior first responder, I agree entirely.

However, why would you immediately turn it into a partisan issue with a disclaimer defending Jon Stewart's politics?

Would the post have been any less effective by merely going into the quote and skipping the political BS? I'd argue it would have been _more_ effective.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No matter what side of the political spectrum you’re on, it’s hard to deny our first responders deserve to be cared for.


----------



## FeXL

Good ol' Uncle Joe...

Not The Onion: Biden Promises To Cure Cancer If Elected



> Having promised to "make America America again," Democratic presidential frontrunner Joe Biden decided to one-up President Trump during their dueling rallies in Iowa... though this time, we suspect "sleepy" Joe may have over-reached.
> 
> Not content with the usual impossible campaign promises, Biden promised to cure cancer if he’s elected...
> 
> “I’ve worked so hard in my career, that I promise you, *if I’m elected president you’re gonna see the single most important thing that changes America, we’re gonna cure cancer,*” Biden told a crowd in Ottumwa, Iowa on Tuesday.


Links' bold.

Related:

Joe Biden's Super-Afraid That Trump's China Tariffs Could Cause Us to Lose the "G5" Race



> G5? The Gulfstream 5? Don't we already have that?
> 
> The mentally weak candidate, who is slower and less energetic than he was when he was younger but still also stupid, meant 5G networking capability.
> 
> Just put Biden back in dry dock until the debates. #G5 pic.twitter.com/7KYxeTOsJu
> — Jimmy (@JimmyPrinceton) June 12, 2019​


Instead of curing cancer, he may want to settle for something a little less ambitious. Say, mental illness...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hoisted by his own petards, once again. 



> The Stephanopoulos Interview Is Another Fine Mess for Trump
> 
> By John Cassidy
> June 15, 2019
> 
> President Trump has mired his Administration in a fresh controversy with his assertion that he would accept opposition research from foreign entities during the 2020 campaign.
> 
> Some weeks the Trump Presidency is a horror show; some weeks it is slapstick. This week it was both. In the Middle East, tensions with Iran rose alarmingly, while, on the domestic front, Donald Trump got himself into yet another political mess. As of Saturday, it has been three days since Trump told George Stephanopoulos, of ABC News, that he would accept damaging information on political opponents from foreign governments, and the White House is still trying to repair the political damage. It isn’t working. Instead, things are only getting worse for the President.
> 
> One should never underestimate Trump’s capacity for self-harm, of course. This is the man who, in May, 2017, fired James Comey, the director of the F.B.I., in a fit of pique, thereby siccing a special counsel on himself and everyone around him for the next two years. This week’s blooper may not compare with that blunder for the ages, but it was epic nonetheless. To begin with, consider the timing. Just two days before Trump sat down with Stephanopoulos, the*House Judiciary Committee began its quest to build a public case against him on the basis of Volume II of the Mueller report, which focusses on possible obstruction of justice. In a hearing devoted to legal experts, John Dean, who was Richard Nixon’s White House counsel and went to prison for his role in the Watergate coverup, compared the special counsel’s report to the grand-jury report to Congress that played a significant role in Nixon’s downfall—the so-called Road Map. Like that document, the Mueller report “conveys findings, with supporting evidence, of potential criminal activity based on the work of federal prosecutors, F.B.I. investigators, and witness testimony before a federal grand jury,” Dean said in his opening statement.
> 
> But if Monday’s hearing annoyed the President—he lashed out at Dean in advance of his testimony—it didn’t necessarily represent any new threat to him. Dean and the other witnesses had no news to impart. Nor could they provide any firsthand accounts of the incidents contained in the Mueller report. The hearing produced no blockbuster moment, and there were subsequent reports that some Democrats had questioned the wisdom of calling Dean. So far, so good for Trump, but then came his Rose Garden sitdown with the ABC News anchor.
> 
> It all started to go wrong for the White House when Stephanopoulos brought up Donald Trump, Jr.,’s closed-door appearance on Wednesday before the Senate Intelligence Committee. Stephanopolous asked Trump if his son should have contacted the F.B.I. when, in the summer of 2016, he received an e-mail from the British publicist Rob Goldstone offering him a meeting with some Russians connected to the Russian government who allegedly had the goods on Hillary Clinton. As he has done before, Trump defended Donald, Jr. Then he doubled down and tripled down. By the time he was done, Trump had said that “you don’t” call the F.B.I. in such circumstances; asserted that the current F.B.I. director, Christopher Wray, “is wrong” to suggest you do; and vouchsafed that in the 2020 election, if the Chinese or Russians offered him information on his opponents, “I think I’d take it.” (He also said,*“If I thought there was something wrong, I’d go maybe to the F.B.I.—if I thought there was something wrong.”)
> 
> “Does the President actually want Congress to impeach him?” my colleague Susan B. Glasser asked in her weekly Letter from Trump’s Washington. To that question, on balance, it appears that the answer is no. Rather than trying to goad the Democrats, Trump appears to have simply been doing what he always does: running his mouth. His primary argument, which has some substance, is that, these days, virtually everyone in electoral politics uses negative information, or “oppo research,” on their opponents. But it is a long way from uttering this sad truism to suggesting that it’s O.K. for a Presidential candidate to accept favors from foreign governments.*“Let me make something 100% clear to the American public or anyone running for public office: It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election,” Ellen Weintraub, the head of the Federal Election Commission, the independent body tasked with enforcing campaign-finance laws, said in a statement on Thursday night.
> 
> Trump had not only stated that he would willingly break the law. He had also reminded everyone of the contents of Volume I of the Mueller report, which detailed the extensive contacts in 2016 and thereafter between people connected to the Trump campaign and people connected to Vladimir Putin. The report concluded that the Russian government, with its hacking and Internet disinformation efforts, purposefully assisted the Trump campaign, and that some people connected to the campaign were eager to make the most of this assistance. But the report also said*“there was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy”—a statement that Trump and his allies seized upon as vindication of the President’s refrain that there was “No collusion,” even though the report said explicitly, “we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of ‘collusion.’*” Now here was Trump saying, in effect, that he would gladly collude.
> 
> Even the late-night comics, who have been feeding on Trump’s gaffes for years, were stunned, a Vanity Fair article noted. Seth Myers:*“The guy who has spent two years scream-tweeting ‘no collusion!’ is now saying, ‘If anyone’s down to collude, I’m your guy.’*.*.*. If Trump had been President during Watergate, he would have left a business card at the break-in.” Stephen Colbert:*“You’ve got to imagine*Robert Mueller is just getting home with all of his boxes after clearing out his office, turns on the TV, and he’s like, ‘Damn it, honey, I’m going back to work. I’ll see you in another two years.’*”
> 
> When the news about Trump’s statements broke, the reflex response of his Republican enablers was to scream “Christopher Steele”—a reference to the former British spy who was paid by a law firm working for Hillary Clinton’s campaign (and, before it, a conservative newspaper) to dig up dirt on Trump. Politico pointed out that the*House Republicans’ own 2018 report on Russian interference in the 2016 election said, “It is not illegal to contract with a foreign person or foreign entity for services, including conducting opposition research on a U.S. campaign, so long as the service was paid for at the market rate.” The full contents of the dossier were also not made public until after the election. It had no impact on the vote.
> So much for that comparison. By Friday, a number of Republicans who usually defend Trump were peeling away from him on this one.*“I think you have an obligation to pick up the phone and call the F.B.I. if we know this is from a foreign government,” Representative Tom Cole, of Oklahoma, said. “I don’t think that’s going to sit well with most Americans. It shouldn’t. It’s just not an appropriate way to behave in a political campaign.” In a rare acknowledgment that he had erred, Trump was*prompted to call into his favorite show, “Fox & Friends,” to try to do some cleanup. He still insisted that he would accept the information from a foreign power—“because if you don’t look at it you won’t know it’s bad,” he said. Then he went on, “But, of course, you give it to the F.B.I. or report it to the Attorney General or somebody like that. But, of course, you do that—you couldn’t have that happen with our country—and everybody understands that, and I thought it was made clear.”
> 
> What was made very clear, of course, was Trump’s culpability—far too clear for Trump’s most ardent defenders. Instead of holding Trump responsible for his statements, Fox News anchors demanded an inquest into how Stephanopoulos, a journalist who once worked in the Clinton White House, received so much access to the President. According to ABC News, Stephanopoulos was in Trump’s company for thirty hours. In addition to carrying out the interview, he flew on Air Force One and sat through a number of White House meetings. Sean Hannity, the primus inter pares of the Trump mouthpieces at Fox, dismissed Stephanopoulos as “Little Georgie,” Erik Wemple, the Washington Post’s press critic, noted. Laura Ingraham said she didn’t know who at the White House had approved the interview. Tucker Carlson said,*“I’m not here to defend Trump’s interview with Stephanopoulos. Why would you have given an interview to Stephanopoulos in the first place? It’s a very good question.”
> 
> The most likely explanation is that spending a few days in the company of a network anchorman appealed to the President’s vanity. On Friday, the damage continued. ABC News released another clip of the Stephanopoulos interview, in which Trump accused the former White House counsel, Don McGahn, of lying when he told Mueller that, in the summer of 2017, Trump twice asked him to fire the special counsel.
> 
> “I never suggested firing Mueller,” Trump claimed.*Stephanopoulos pushed back, asking Trump why McGahn would lie under oath.*“Because he wanted to make himself look like a good lawyer,” Trump replied. “Or he believed it because I would constantly tell anybody that would listen—including you, including the media—that Robert Mueller was conflicted. Robert Mueller had a total conflict of interest.”
> On this vital matter, which goes to the heart of whether Trump sought to obstruct justice, it is Trump’s word against the word of two others: McGahn and his former chief of staff at the White House, Annie Donaldson, who reportedly took detailed notes about her boss’s exchanges with the President. To put it another way, this is an area where great peril may lurk for Trump, and, rather than stepping carefully, he’s just plunged into it head first.


 https://www.newyorker.com/news/our...ulos-interview-is-another-fine-mess-for-trump


----------



## Macfury

Trump has set up the media big time and Democrat lackey Stephanopoulos has played into it perfectly.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump has set up the media big time and Democrat lackey Stephanopoulos has played into it perfectly.




How in the hell do you get that from reading this article? Unless of course you didn’t bother reading the article.


----------



## Macfury

You know about the coming FISA declass, right?



Freddie_Biff said:


> How in the hell do you get that from reading this article? Unless of course you didn’t bother reading the article.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You know about the coming FISA declass, right?




Nope. Now answer my question.


----------



## Macfury

Unless you understand the declassification of the FISA documents, Trump's strategy will make no sense to you. Better you should just take your cue from the MSM and believe it was an error.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Unless you understand the declassification of the FISA documents, Trump's strategy will make no sense to you. Better you should just take your cue from the MSM and believe it was an error.




It’s interesting how often you try to make Trump out to be more intelligent than he actually is. I think you give him way too much credit.


----------



## CubaMark

*Fox News poll has Trump losing to Sanders, Biden, Warren, Harris, or Buttigieg*



_From June 9-12, Fox News commissioned pollsters Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company (R) to survey 1,001 representative Americans; the poll concluded that if the election were called today, Sanders would beat Trump by 9 points, 49%-40%, as would Biden; Warren would beat him 43%-41%; Harris would beat him 42%-41%; and Buttigieg would beat him 41%-40% -- Sanders has acknowledged that "polls go up and polls go down." (via Naked Capitalism)_​


----------



## Macfury

Of course, Bernie doesn't have a chance of making it past the DNC apparatus. I remember the polls for Hillary were even more decisive at this point!


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Fox News poll has Trump losing to Sanders, Biden, Warren, Harris, or Buttigieg*
> 
> 
> 
> _From June 9-12, Fox News commissioned pollsters Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company (R) to survey 1,001 representative Americans; the poll concluded that if the election were called today, Sanders would beat Trump by 9 points, 49%-40%, as would Biden; Warren would beat him 43%-41%; Harris would beat him 42%-41%; and Buttigieg would beat him 41%-40% -- Sanders has acknowledged that "polls go up and polls go down." (via Naked Capitalism)_​


Does anyone believe/trust the polls anymore? According to most polls Trump was not supposed to win last go around.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> Does anyone believe/trust the polls anymore? According to most polls Trump was not supposed to win last go around.


I don't want to believe them. I don't want to believe that 40% of the US electorate thinks this buffoon is qualified for the office, especially with the last few years of evidence. :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

Relax—I don't think 40% of the US population believes Bernie is qualified for office.



CubaMark said:


> I don't want to believe them. I don't want to believe that 40% of the US electorate thinks this buffoon is qualified for the office, especially with the last few years of evidence. :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Record Number of African Nationals Flood Our Southern Border



> In her post about the World Health Organization declaring Ebola outbreaks the “new normal,” Leslie noted that 350 people from the Congo turned up at our southern border.
> 
> It appears this was not an anomaly and that a record number of African nationals from a range of countries are arriving in America via Mexico.
> 
> Last week alone, hundreds arrived in San Antonio, Texas.


So, I hate to belay the obvious, but just how the hell are Africans getting across the Atlantic?


----------



## FeXL

wonderings said:


> Does anyone believe/trust the polls anymore?


In a word, no. In addition, we're still 16 months out. Anyone who puts any stock in a poll that far in advance of the event must be a Prog. Oh, wait...

Was in Montana over the weekend, in Kalispell. Hiway 93 passes through the city and along 93 just off downtown was a group of about a dozens protesters bearing placards noting, "Impeach Trump", "Honk if you're with us", etc., etc., etc. In the group of vehicles that I passed by with (guessing 10-15) not a single horn was honked.


----------



## FeXL

State Department Details 23 Security Violations and Possible Hacking Incidents in Hillary Clinton's Illegal Server System



> Now they tell us.
> 
> All I see here is a big pile of lack of intent.
> 
> The State Department revealed Monday that it has identified "multiple security incidents" involving current or former employees' handling of Hillary Clinton's emails, and that 23 "violations" and seven "infractions" have been issued as part of the department's ongoing investigation.
> 
> The information came in a letter to Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley, who is responsible for overseeing the security review.
> 
> 
> "To this point, the Department has assessed culpability to 15 individuals, some of whom were culpable in multiple security incidents," Mary Elizabeth Taylor, the State Department's Assistant Secretary in the Bureau of Legislative Affairs, wrote to Grassley. "DS has issued 23 violations and 7 infractions incidents. ... This number will likely change as the review progresses."
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> The document release revealed numerous episodes in which the Clinton team either suspected it had been hacked or seemingly acknowledged that security measures had come up short.
> 
> "omg," top Clinton aide Huma Abedin wrote to Justin Cooper, the technology pro overseeing Clinton's private home-based email servers, when he told her shortly after midnight on Jan. 9, 2011, that "someone was trying to hack us."​


----------



## FeXL

Good!

‘Self-Righteous’: Dem Staffer Headed To Prison As Prosecutors Look To Make Example Of Him For Politically-Motivated Crimes



> A former aide to Sen. Maggie Hassan and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee is headed to prison Wednesday for what prosecutors said was the largest known data theft in Senate history.
> 
> The former aide, Jackson Cosko, pleaded guilty in April to crimes related to an unparalleled effort to ransack a Senate office, extorting a Democratic senator, illegally harming Republicans for their political views, and blackmailing a witness.
> 
> Prosecutors asked for nearly five years in prison for Cosko, a onetime congressional IT aide to Hassan. Cosko admitted he stole the New Hampshire Democrat’s data out of revenge for being fired, then used it to doxx Republicans during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings.
> 
> “The government believes that a significant sentence would help to make clear that difference of political opinion do not entitle people to engage in politically motivated, criminal attacks threatening elected officials with whom he disagrees, and would thereby encourage respect for the law, and deter future criminal conduct,” prosecutors wrote.


Now, just a couple hunnert more Dem staffers, a few dozen Dem senators, a handful of FIB's, one prior Dem presidential candidate and the last Dem president, we'd be well on our way to cleaning out the swamp!


----------



## FeXL

Trump Team Demolishes Deep State’s Cuba Policy



> “If Cuban Troops and Militia do not immediately CEASE military and other operations for the purpose of causing death and destruction to the Constitution of Venezuela, a full and complete embargo, together with highest-level sanctions, will be placed on the island of Cuba… Maduro is not a Venezuelan patriot. He's a Cuban puppet." -- President Trump
> 
> "American foreign policy should be based on the _pursuit of American national interest_. Tragically, the Obama administration’s misguided Cuba policy provided the Cuban regime with the necessary political cover to expand its malign influence and ideological imperialism across the region.” -- John Bolton
> 
> The teleprompted (from Havana) Fake News Media mantra that Barack Obama (pictured above with Raul Castro) courageously and innovatively “tried something new” with Cuba was -- and is -- beyond idiotic, for people actually familiar with U.S. history, that is.
> 
> The teleprompted (from Havana) Fake News Media mantra that the Trump team is “turning the clock back” on Cuba policy is doubly idiotic. In fact, it’s the Trump team, by _actually enforcing_ many provisions of the “Cuba-embargo,” that is thoroughly revolutionizing Cuba policy, as we detailed here last week.
> 
> *In fact, “engagement” with Castro’s Cuba and opposition to U.S. sanctions against the Castro Family Crime Syndicate (habitually mislabeled as “Cuba” by the Fake News Media) ranks among the oldest and most treasured of the Deep State/International Elite’s pet causes.*


Bold mine.

Wait for it! In 3, 2,...


----------



## CubaMark

*Yup.*


----------



## Macfury

Did Trump attack Iran? What did your news aggregator tell you?


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

As POTUS, how would you respond to Iran shooting down an American drone in international space? Hugs over soy latte?

Related:

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> ...But the Leftist/Democrat disinformation engine has been put into overdrive...the usual suspects are claiming that Pompeo and Bolton and Trump are provoking Iran because they are frantic for war.
> 
> Well, we have been at war with Iran for 40 years...the problem is that we didn't admit it. Iran has been the world's leader in fomenting terrorism against America and its allies, and is directly responsible for many of the American combat deaths in Iraq, via their roadside bomb technology.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> *Yup.*


Does not look like Trump is all that eager to jump into war, at least according to CNN. Big headline on the main page saying Trump said "hard to believe' Iran intentionally shot the drone... it's all going to work out"

Does not seem like someone foaming at the mouth looking for any reason to jump into war with Iran. Of course taking that all from a headline, so who really knows.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> Does not look like Trump is all that eager to jump into war, at least according to CNN.


_Well, Pompeo has been beating the war drum; that psychopath John Bolton is beside himself, wishing he had the nuclear codes; and then there's this:_

*U.S. prepped for strikes on Iran before approval was withdrawn*

The United States made preparations for a military strike against Iran on Thursday night in retaliation for the downing of a U.S. surveillance drone over the Strait of Hormuz, but the operation was abruptly called off with just hours to go, a U.S. official said.

The official, who was not authorized to discuss the operation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the targets would have included radars and missile batteries. The New York Times reported that President Donald Trump had approved the strikes, but then called them off. 

[...]

Asked earlier in the day about a U.S. response to the attack, Trump said, "You'll soon find out."

The swift reversal was a stark reminder of the serious risk of military conflict between U.S. and Iranian forces as the Trump administration combines a "maximum pressure" campaign of economic sanctions with a buildup of American forces in the region. As tensions mounted in recent weeks, there have been growing fears that either side could make a dire miscalculation that led to war.

(CBC)​


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> _Well, Pompeo has been beating the war drum; that psychopath John Bolton is beside himself, wishing he had the nuclear codes; and then there's this:_
> 
> *U.S. prepped for strikes on Iran before approval was withdrawn*
> 
> The United States made preparations for a military strike against Iran on Thursday night in retaliation for the downing of a U.S. surveillance drone over the Strait of Hormuz, but the operation was abruptly called off with just hours to go, a U.S. official said.
> 
> The official, who was not authorized to discuss the operation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the targets would have included radars and missile batteries. The New York Times reported that President Donald Trump had approved the strikes, but then called them off.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Asked earlier in the day about a U.S. response to the attack, Trump said, "You'll soon find out."
> 
> The swift reversal was a stark reminder of the serious risk of military conflict between U.S. and Iranian forces as the Trump administration combines a "maximum pressure" campaign of economic sanctions with a buildup of American forces in the region. As tensions mounted in recent weeks, there have been growing fears that either side could make a dire miscalculation that led to war.
> 
> (CBC)​


Seems like they have all acted appropriately. Warning bells should be ringing loud when attacked, even if it was a drone, it was an attack. They could have jumped right in and started a war but they held back, discussed it and at the moment are opting from military action. Hard to say who is in the wrong though, Iran says the drone was in their airspace and the US says it was well out of their airspace. Makes a big in a case like this.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Seems like they have all acted appropriately. Warning bells should be ringing loud when attacked, even if it was a drone, it was an attack. They could have jumped right in and started a war but they held back, discussed it and at the moment are opting from military action. Hard to say who is in the wrong though, Iran says the drone was in their airspace and the US says it was well out of their airspace. Makes a big in a case like this.


I also believe that authorizing--but not ordering--the strikes is a good negotiating position. In Trump's media appearance yesterday, he was clearly creating an opportunity for Iran to say that the government had not authorized the drone strike--that it might have been an error by an overzealous general or underling.

From Trump's Twitter account:



> We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General.
> 
> 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone.


Sounds _extremely_ reasonable to me.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> Seems like they have all acted appropriately. Warning bells should be ringing loud when attacked, even if it was a drone, it was an attack. They could have jumped right in and started a war but they held back, discussed it and at the moment are opting from military action. Hard to say who is in the wrong though, Iran says the drone was in their airspace and the US says it was well out of their airspace. Makes a big in a case like this.


I wonder how the USA would respond if the Iranians had established military bases all around the continental states, and began flying surveillance drones along the borders? 

Do you really think Trump et al would sit idly by?

Funny how the USA gets to play by another set of rules, eh?


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> I wonder how the USA would respond if the Iranians had established military bases all around the continental states, and began flying surveillance drones along the borders?
> 
> Do you really think Trump et al would sit idly by?
> 
> Funny how the USA gets to play by another set of rules, eh?


So you are saying Iran is justified in shooting down US drones outside of their borders because the US has military bases in countries all around them?

Looks to me like the US has bases all over the globe and they are certainly not settled just around Iran
backpage-11601 by B P, on Flickr

What else is justifiable for Iran to do because they are surrounded by US bases?


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Anonymous sources? Cited by the completely & totally fair & unbiased MotherCorpse & The Paper of Record?

Were they Russkies?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> ...The official, who was not authorized to discuss the operation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the targets would have included radars and missile batteries. The New York Times reported that President Donald Trump had approved the strikes, but then called them off...


----------



## FeXL

Funny how you gloss over everything Iran does...

VICTIM!!! US IRANIANS ARE ALL VICTIMS OF THE EVIL OPPRESSOR, AMERICA!!!



CubaMark said:


> Funny how the USA gets to play by another set of rules, eh?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Funny how you gloss over everything Iran does...
> 
> VICTIM!!! US IRANIANS ARE ALL VICTIMS OF THE EVIL OPPRESSOR, AMERICA!!!


Perhaps the US is using radio stations against Iran as they did to undermine the rightful government of Venezuela - that would be inhumane!


----------



## CubaMark

Iran claims the drone was in its airspace. The USA claims it was in international airspace. Who are you going to believe?

I mean, it's not like there's a precedent or anything....


----------



## Macfury

The USA.



CubaMark said:


> Iran claims the drone was in its airspace. The USA claims it was in international airspace. Who are you going to believe?


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> Iran claims the drone was in its airspace. The USA claims it was in international airspace. Who are you going to believe?
> 
> I mean, it's not like there's a precedent or anything....


Personally I will believe the US over Iran. 

How about the Iranian stealth fighter jet Iran claimed among other things?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...in-faked-photoshop-image-blunder-8493530.html

If the drone was in Iranian airspace though I have no issue with Iran shooting it down. Obviously I think different if it was indeed outside of their borders which makes it a completely different and unjustified action.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Personally I will believe the US over Iran.
> 
> How about the Iranian stealth fighter jet Iran claimed among other things?
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...in-faked-photoshop-image-blunder-8493530.html
> 
> If the drone was in Iranian airspace though I have no issue with Iran shooting it down. Obviously I think different if it was indeed outside of their borders which makes it a completely different and unjustified action.


In terms of reliable testimony I'm afraid that the US has become the dung standard. 

Thing is a drone can be a threat even if it's not within your airspace, so I will give Iran the benefit of the doubt on this one. Especially as the lamestream propaganda machine has been trying to push the US into attacking Iran for some time. The lamestream lies about Global Warming, they lie about 9/11, it would be extremely put of character if they suddenly started telling the truth.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Is this even a question? :yikes:



CubaMark said:


> Who are you going to believe?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Is this even a question? :yikes:


You've got to believe everyone but the US... unless it involves Trump not listening to national security advisors, in which case CM flips his wig that Trump ain't listening to them.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You've got to believe everyone but the US... unless it involves Trump not listening to national security advisors, in which case CM flips his wig that Trump ain't listening to them.


It's no bloody wonder he believes in socialism, EV's, Globull Warming, and solar & wind power, among others...


----------



## FeXL

Related:

Some Iran Spin



> Keane on Fox: Trump was told "that the Iranian national leadership was furious with the tactical commander that shot down the drone because they clearly did not want that provocation to take place. Based on those facts, new information to the president, he called off the strike.”
> — Peter Baker (@peterbakernyt) June 21, 2019​
> At PJ Media, the Morning Briefing notes that Democrats had their attack lines all ready for any Trump attack on Iran: but now they're confuzenated.
> 
> ...
> 
> Commenters tell me that Democrats are now attacking Trump for not launching an attack on Iran.
> 
> They're very serious people, you know.


They're something, all right...


----------



## FeXL

Border Patrol Chief Carla Provost: Family Units from 52 Countries Have Illegally Crossed the Border



> U.S. Border Patrol Chief Carla Provost told Congress Thursday that in addition to the Central American countries that make up the Northern Triangle, illegal immigrants from 52 countries have illegally crossed the U.S. southern border.
> 
> “Smugglers falsely advertise a safe journey to the border, misleading families that anyone who arrives with a child will not be deported under current U.S. policies. While smugglers primarily target the Northern Triangle, family units from 52 countries have illegally crossed the southern border so far this year, Provost said during opening testimony at a House Homeland Security subcommittee hearing.


Soros Air, anyone?


----------



## FeXL

Millionaire Gets Food Stamps to Prove Eligibility Loophole



> A Minnesota man applied for and then received government food stamps for well over a year, even though he is a millionaire, in an effort to prove his belief that the eligibility requirements for the benefits in his state were too loose.
> 
> Rob Undersander’s story will be told in a Thursday House agriculture subcommittee meeting. The meeting will examine broad-based categorical eligibility requirements (BBCEs), which the Minnesota engineer exploited, for the nation’s Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP)—commonly referred to as food stamps.


----------



## Beej

Ilhan Omar Getting Excited By All This Talk About Concentration Camps
https://babylonbee.com/news/ilhan-omar-getting-excited-by-all-this-talk-about-concentration-camps


> “Is it finally happening?” she was heard exclaiming with a big smile as she read the news.


Aside: Note the source.


----------



## Beej

And now the real thing...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._camps_and_people_are_being_concentrated.html


> "There are camps and people are being concentrated," Omar said Friday. "This is very simple. I don't even know why this is a controversial thing for her to say. We have to really truthfully speak about what's taking place."


Note how the New and Improved definition includes summer camp for kids, or pretty much any gathering place away from home where people sleep.


----------



## FeXL

I love it!

Gender............ 



> President Trump should make a declaration that he is identifying as a woman. The left will have to (1) admit the absurdity of their gender ideology or (2) accept and celebrate “Donna Trump” as the first woman President, thus beating Hillary, Liz Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand to the glorious goal of one of their “female firsts”.
> 
> Furthermore, if he remains married to Melania he will also be the first gay president, and the first lesbian president. He will also be the first lesbian president married to an immigrant! What a most glorious event for the democrats to celebrate!
> 
> Gosh, I love it when a plan comes together !!!!!!


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_No surprise here. The right-wing mantra of "tax cuts put more money in the hands of productive people and enterprises to drive the economy" does nothing more than make the rich richer....
_
*Study: Trump Tax Cuts Failed to Help Anybody But the Wealthy*

The biggest effect of the Trump tax cuts is obvious: People who own businesses and other sources of concentrated wealth will have a lot more money, and the federal budget will have less. But the advocates of the tax cuts insisted it wasn’t about letting the makers keep their hard-earned money rather than handing it over to the takers. It was about incentivizing business to repatriate funds and ramp up its investments, thereby increasing growth and wages.

The Congressional Research Service, a kind of in-house think tank for Congress, has a new paper analyzing the effects of the Trump tax cuts. It finds that none of those secondary effects have materialized. Growth has not increased above the pre-tax-cut trend. Neither have wages. After a brief and much smaller than expected bump, repatriated corporate cash from abroad has leveled off.

It’s of course possible that the growth in wages would take longer than the year or so that has passed since the tax cut to show up. If the Trump tax cut had encouraged new business investment, it might take years for the new investment to bear fruit. But the study looks directly at business investment and finds … nothing:










Supporters of the Trump tax cuts insisted not only that they would promote growth, but that they would promote so much growth the measure would pay for itself. Even moderates like Susan Collins repeated assurances by the party’s pseudo-economists that the plan would not increase the deficit. So far, the growth feedback from the tax cuts has made up about 5 percent of the plan’s revenue loss, a mere 95 percent shy of the predictions.

(NYMag - Intelligencer)​


----------



## Macfury

You, CM, continue to demand government do things like protect your Earth Mama through regressive carbon taxes and "green" energy boondoggles that have no measurable effect on climate. 

Suddenly, you're demanding proof that giving people their money back does more than give them their money back?


----------



## FeXL

Awrite. Let's destroy another Prog narrative.

Read The Bigot's headline below. I take that to literally mean, nobody except the wealthy saw any benefit from the tax cuts, whatsoever. Not a soul. Agreed?

OK. Read. Learn.

What the Left Doesn't Want You to Know About Trump's Tax Cuts



> This Tax Day, most Americans will end up paying less to the federal government, but many of them are convinced they're actually paying more. Liberals have leveraged their power in the media to pull off an impressive and terrifying misinformation campaign, and even The New York Times had to admit it.
> 
> The benefits of the Trump tax cuts have been powerful and broad. *A whopping 82 percent of middle-class Americans saw a tax cut last year, with an average savings of more than $1,260. A full 90 percent of workers saw an increase in pay after the IRS adjusted withholding tables to reflect the new law.*


Point: Not only the rich but John Q Public has benefitted from the Trump tax cuts.

More:



> Last year, wages grew an average of 3.3 percent, the best in a decade. The Republican tax cuts accelerated job growth by nearly 25 percent and opportunity zones led investors to put their money into distressed communities.


Point: Not only have there been tax savings in the pocket of Joe Six-Pack, but there has been massive job growth, too.

More:



> Finally, the Trump tax cuts doubled the child tax credit, saving working families an estimated $100 billion.


Point: More money in the pockets of average Americans from the child tax credit.

Further:



> These aren't just Republican talking points. *The Tax Policy Center estimated that 82 percent of middle-income Americans will receive a tax cut for an average reduction of individual income taxes of $1,260 in 2018, increasing after-tax incomes by 1.7 percent. Lower-middle-class households saw the largest tax cut as a percentage of their income, The Wall Street Journal reported. The new withholding tables lower the amount of money employers withhold from workers' paychecks, according to USA Today. According to the Treasury Department, 90 percent of Americans saw an increase in their take-home pay. The Bureau Of Labor Statistics reported a 3.3 percent average wage increase.*


Bold mine.

Point: It's patently obvious that The Bigot's headline is an outright lie, right from the get go. Have the rich benefitted? You bet. But so have most ordinary Americans, too.

Read more:

RSC Budget Builds on the Success of GOP Tax Cuts



> The TCJA dramatically reduced taxes for American families with 90 percent of Americans seeing increased take-home pay. For instance, a family of four with annual income of $73,000 (median family income) will see a tax cut of more than $2,058, a 58 percent reduction in federal taxes.


Success of tax cuts expose hypocrisy of the Democrats



> Walmart, the nation’s biggest employer with 1.4 million U.S. employees, raised its minimum wage to $11 and gave up to $1,000 bonuses to its employees. It turns out tax cuts have done more for entry-level employees than the “Fight for $15” ever has. Paychecks this month are also bigger due to new IRS tax withholding tables taking effect.
> 
> According to the Tax Policy Center, the average earner will receive about $135 more a month, and more if they have kids. At the household budget level, this means cable, smartphone, or utility bills can be taken care of. For the broader economy, this means more than 100 million American workers keeping more of their money at home where it’s needed and sending less off to Washington, D.C., where it doesn’t stimulate local communities and Main Streets.


More:



> The best may be yet to come. Small businesses, which create two-thirds of all new jobs, are arguably the biggest winners of tax cuts, receiving a new 20 percent tax deduction. But they have not yet felt the full effects. Yes, many small businesses have made tax cut-induced pay increases and investments like their big business brethren. Joseph’s Lite Cookies in Florida is giving $3,000 raises to half its workforce. West Virginia Eye Consultants is hiring and expanding.


Trump tax cuts and the middle class: Here are the facts



> [T]he success of the TCJA is clear. *In the months following passage of the tax cuts, unemployment fell to a 49-year low and key demographics including women, African-Americans and Hispanics have seen record low unemployment rates.
> 
> Job openings have now hit a record high of 7.3 million and over 300,000 jobs were created last month, as most private-sector businesses continued hiring despite the government shutdown. Year-over-year, wages have grown 3.2 percent and the economy is projected to grow at 3.1 percent over 2018.*


Bold mine.

One does not see results like the above if there are no benefits to a tax break.

Next?



CubaMark said:


> Study: Trump Tax Cuts Failed to Help Anybody But the Wealthy


----------



## FeXL

More on Bro-Fo!

New Documents Shed Light On Ilhan Omar’s Marriage To Her Alleged Brother



> Newly discovered official documents released on Sunday suggest that Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) lived with her current husband Ahmed Abdisalan Hirsi during the entire time that she was legally married to Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, the man that critics allege is her brother.


----------



## FeXL

Even more on Bro-Fo!

New Evidence Unearthed That Suggests That Ilhan Omar is Lying About Her Marriages or "Marriages"



> New evidence indicates that Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar was residing with her current husband, Ahmed Abdisalan Hirsi, while also being legally married to another man, Ahmed Nur Said Elmi.​


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Freddie, posting this Hitler nonsense makes you look like a guy with a big pee stain spreading across his pants. It's embarrassing. Didn't you even bother checking to see if Trump wrote that quote before you started emptying your bladder on the screen?


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Freddie, posting this Hitler nonsense makes you look like a guy with a big pee stain spreading across his pants. It's embarrassing. Didn't you even bother checking to see if Trump wrote that quote before you started emptying your bladder on the screen?


Did a quick google search on that supposed quote of Donald Trump and from what I have gathered you are correct and it is not a quote from Donald Trump.

quote-abraham-lincoln-quote-internet-fake by B P, on Flickr

2eaaf6b0b598f10666c7e67366d3c82e by B P, on Flickr


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Did a quick google search on that supposed quote of Donald Trump and from what I have gathered you are correct and it is not a quote from Donald Trump.


Close to 100% of Freddie's posted memes are equally inaccurate. Once the error is exposed, a reasonable person would delete the image and apologize. Freddie never man's up--he just leaves these stains permanently to mark where he's squatted.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Close to 100% of Freddie's posted memes are equally inaccurate. Once the error is exposed, a reasonable person would delete the image and apologize. Freddie never man's up--he just leaves these stains permanently to mark where he's squatted.


Maybe he leaves it up because "making the lie big, making it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"?


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Maybe he leaves it up because "making the lie big, making it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"?


I hear that some historical figures have done just that. Dictators and stuff.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I hear that some historical figures have done just that. Dictators and stuff.


Nazi!!!


----------



## FeXL

Trump's Accuser Seems Bananas; _David French Believes Her Implicitly_, Because of Course He Does



> Nothing weird about talking about how sexy rape is, just before flirting hard with a Gay Man.
> 
> John Nolte writes about this fake news lunacy:


More:



> *So French is doing what liberals do -- they believe the accusations about the people they don't like, and they disbelieve the accusations about the people they like, and then they sanctimoniously attack everyone else for not sharing their biases.*


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Trump's Accuser Seems Bananas; _David French Believes Her Implicitly_, Because of Course He Does


French ran perhaps the most ridiculous and half-assed almost-presidential campaign of recent years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


>




Okay, so it turns out this one is misattributed to Trump. Snopes confirms that. But it sure does line up with his philosophy, except Trump wouldn’t limit it to lying three times. At over ten thousand lies so far since taking office, you’d have to be a fool to trust his word. 

This quote, from The Art of the Deal talks of hyperbole—a kind of misrepresentation—in much the same way as the other one talked about lying.



> The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular.
> 
> I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion.


 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-lie-truth/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SINC

Yep. The man is dumb like a fox. He inhales fools daily.


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> Yep. The man is dumb like a fox. He inhales fools daily.


Unbelievable. SINC, you've got to get that fellow out of Edmonton. By posting garbage like that here, he's bringing down the city's overall IQ.


----------



## FeXL

So, simply as a matter of discussion, how many lies d'ya s'pose the Prime Turnip has spouted since becoming a national embarrassment?

And, if lying is truly the issue here (as opposed to, say, blind partisanship), where is your criticism of him?



Freddie_Biff said:


> At over ten thousand lies so far since taking office, you’d have to be a fool to trust his word.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> So, simply as a matter of discussion, how many lies d'ya s'pose the Prime Turnip has spouted since becoming a national embarrassment?
> 
> 
> 
> And, if lying is truly the issue here (as opposed to, say, blind partisanship), where is your criticism of him?




I dunno, FeXL. I thought this was the American Thread. What does Justin Trudeau have to do with it?


----------



## SINC

Perfectly legit to compare two liars/leaders in two neighbouring countries when they each have an effect on the other, Canada is intertwined with the USA and always has been. Thread post could be in either Canadian or American politics.


----------



## eMacMan

While I would dispute the current official portrayal of the Miniconjou as peaceful, remember they were at the Little Big Horn. It is true that the band that was slaughtered at Wounded Knee had been completely disarmed and was composed mostly of women, children and older men. 

That was not a battle it was wholesale slaughter, and the revocation is long past due.

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/pol...-Bury-the-medals-of-Wounded-Knee-14053355.php


> Legislation to rescind 20 Congressional Medals of Honor awarded after the 1890 massacre at Wounded Knee in South Dakota was unveiled Wednesday by U.S. Rep. Denny Heck, D-Wash., and two House colleagues.
> 
> "We're 129 years late, but we still can act," said Heck, in Washington, D.C., introducing the Remove the Stain Act.
> 
> An estimated 250 Native Americans, many of them women and children, were killed by 7th Cavalry troops on Dec. 29, 1890.


Just 56 more years until they do something about the post war Eisenhower death camps that cost over a million disarmed German men their lives in 1945 an 1946.


----------



## FeXL

Recall high school English class, Freddie?

Compare & contrast. 

Unless this is strictly a blatantly partisan issue, in which case merely confirm your bias by ignoring me. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> What does Justin Trudeau have to do with it?


----------



## FeXL

Huh. Wonder who the Dems are gonna bring this year...

In Its 110th Year, Tonight’s Congressional Baseball Game Sees Renewed Interest



> While the game has long been a great memory for nearly every member of Congress, June 14, 2017 was a day that changed congressional baseball history.
> 
> On that day, then-House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (LA-01) and three others were shot during the Republican team’s practice.


----------



## FeXL

Time to put the brakes on, boyz...

Federal Spending Tops $3 Trillion Through May for First Time; Deficit Hits $738 Billion



> For the first time in the history of the United States, the federal government has spent more than $3 trillion in the first eight months of the fiscal year, according to the Monthly Treasury Statement released today.
> 
> The record $3,013,541,000,000 that the federal government spent in October through May of fiscal 2019 was $181,157,920,000 more than the previous record of $2,832,383,080,000 (in constant May 2019 dollars) that the federal government spent in October through May of fiscal 2009.


Related:

Watchdog Exposes $15.3 Billion in Congressional Waste



> Congress has stealthily packed $15.3 billion worth of earmarks into its 2019 fiscal year budgets despite its moratorium on the practice, according to a new report.
> 
> Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW), a Washington, D.C.-based taxpayer-watchdog group, released its annual ‘Pig Book' that tracks wasteful spending within the halls of Congress. Sens. Rand Paul (R., Ken.), Ben Sasse (R., Neb.) and Reps. Ted Budd (R., N.C.), Tim Burchett (R., Tenn), Bill Flores (R., Texas), and Tom McClintock (R,.Calif.) joined CAGW's president, Tom Schatz, Wednesday at the Phoenix Park Hotel in D.C. for an event on their findings and the state of earmark reform.
> 
> CAGW's investigation discovered more than 280 earmarks that are costing taxpayers a total of $15.3 billion for the current fiscal year, an increase of nearly 22 percent from its 2018 levels. The figures were gathered combing through spending tacked onto appropriations bills and is the largest amount approved by Congress since 2010.


----------



## FeXL

We Won’t Get Fooled Again, Senator Warren!



> Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) is right: the country needs economic patriotism. But, that’s not what Warren is offering in her campaign to become the 46th president.
> 
> In a recent speech for her ailing campaign, the Democratic senator who is fond of telling American entrepreneurs that they “didn’t build” their businesses, made the case for Trumpist economics. Warren argued that “giant ‘American’ corporations who control our economy” are not “grateful” for the opportunities that the United States has given them. She then went on to list a series of U.S. corporations that have uprooted from this country and moved overseas to produce their goods on the cheap (thereby creating jobs in places like Mexico, Canada, China, or India while denuding the once-vital American manufacturing towns of any hope).
> 
> In a bit that sounded more like a riff from the gonzo political strategist, Steven K. Bannon, Warren sounded off on the dangers of what’s known as “Shareholder Capitalism.” Senator Warren rightly decried how these “American” corporations (where, at least one-third of the investors are, in fact, foreigners) have only one loyalty: “to the short-term interests of their shareholders.” Warren then castigated her fellow politicians by arguing that they “love to say they care about American jobs. But for decades, those same politicians have cited ‘free market principles’ and refused to intervene in markets on behalf of American workers.”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Recall high school English class, Freddie?
> 
> 
> 
> Compare & contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless this is strictly a blatantly partisan issue, in which case merely confirm your bias by ignoring me.




Why don’t you enlighten me then. How many lies has Justin Trudeau told since becoming prime minister? Does it approach 10,000 like your hero down south?


----------



## FeXL

Dunno. Don't care about the precise number like some anal Progs do. You tell me. If you were honest about your criticism you'd be keeping track yourself.

Enough so that everything that comes out of that hole under his big nose is immediately under question.

And, FWIW, I'm certain that of those 10,000 alleged lies from Trump, at least one or two could be debunked. Jes' sayin'...



Freddie_Biff said:


> How many lies has Justin Trudeau told since becoming prime minister?


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Obama's Former Head of ICE: Actually, the Cages for the Immigrant Children Was Barack Obama's Idea



> No one minded the cages back when The Precious implemented them in 2015.


Curious, that...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Dunno. Don't care about the precise number like some anal Progs do. You tell me. If you were honest about your criticism you'd be keeping track yourself.


Freddie doesn't even keep track of his own lies--that's why he trips up so often!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie doesn't even keep track of his own lies--that's why he trips up so often!



You sure seem fixated on me, buddy. It’s a little creepy to tell the truth.


----------



## Macfury

Like penicillin is fixated on a bad infection, Freddie



Freddie_Biff said:


> You sure seem fixated on me, buddy. It’s a little creepy to tell the truth.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Like penicillin is fixated on a bad infection, Freddie



Nope. Much creepier than that. I really wish you weren’t so fixated on what I have to say. Like, get a life.


----------



## Beej

The Democratic party is back in fighting form.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1144447415438589952


----------



## Macfury

Progs always find it creepy when their nonsense is exposed. It's a side effect of being exposed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. Much creepier than that. I really wish you weren’t so fixated on what I have to say. Like, get a life.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Progs always find it creepy when their nonsense is exposed. It's a side effect of being exposed.




Umm, no. It’s a direct effect of someone like you acting in a creepy manner.


----------



## eMacMan

Beej said:


> The Democratic party is back in fighting form.
> 
> https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1144447415438589952


Bizarre to say the least, but I think you can stick a fork in her because she is done. That said I really hate the current trend of rehashing twitter feeds and calling it news and yes the pumpkin head is a major contributing factor.

Overall looking at other more substantial sources, looks like across the board the Democrypts seem locked into the two things that cost them dearly in 2016. Gun seizure and pounding the war drums.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, when you crap on the EhMAc front porch. my quarrel is with the guy who dumped the load, not the feces. Stop crapping on EhMac and you won't hear a word from me.

Some advice: when I find someone creepy I stop interacting with them or block them... your continued interest in seeking some sort of affirmation from me borders on the pathological. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Umm, no. It’s a direct effect of someone like you acting in a creepy manner.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, when you crap on the EhMAc front porch. my quarrel is with the guy who dumped the load, not the feces. Stop crapping on EhMac and you won't hear a word from me.
> 
> 
> 
> Some advice: when I find someone creepy I stop interacting with them or block them... your continued interest in seeking some sort of affirmation from me borders on the pathological.




I won’t hear from you? You’re the first one to respond no matter what I write, whether it’s to you or not! Yup, I’d call that a fixation, along with your current preoccupation with pee stains and feces.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Bizarre to say the least, but I think you can stick a fork in her because she is done. That said I really hate the current trend of rehashing twitter feeds and calling it news and yes the pumpkin head is a major contributing factor.
> 
> Overall looking at other more substantial sources, looks like across the board the Democrypts seem locked into the two things that cost them dearly in 2016. Gun seizure and pounding the war drums.




One thing’s for sure: there are far too many Democrat contenders. When the GOP had 16 it seemed like way too many. Two nights of debates is too much, as important contenders like Warren couldn’t even debate with Biden or the others. They need to edit this batch down to the ones with actual possibilities of winning. For me, I like Harris the best so far. She’s smart, she’s a better age, and she’s got confidence.


----------



## Macfury

If you want to write private messages to individuals, use the handy PM feature. Otherwise, your public posts are up for public critique. Anyone who posts thoughtless drivel is going to get called out--don't take it personally

Now can you drop it? Take a walk and commune with nature!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I won’t hear from you? You’re the first one to respond no matter what I write, whether it’s to you or not! Yup, I’d call that a fixation, along with your current preoccupation with pee stains and feces.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If you want to write private messages to individuals, use the handy PM feature. Otherwise, your public posts are up for public critique. Anyone who posts thoughtless drivel is going to get called out--don't take it personally
> 
> 
> 
> Now can you drop it? Take a walk and commune with nature!




Yup, so I’m calling you out publicly for your creepy behaviour. You want to comment publicly in an offensive way on something I post, I’ll call you out on it.

Anytime you want to apologize for your pee stain and feces fetish, I’ll be prepared to drop it. Otherwise be prepared to be called out for your childish behaviour.


----------



## Macfury

I DO want to comment publicly on what you wrote and I'm not much concerned if you're offended. I also don't really care if you "drop it" or continue to "call me out" — it's all the same to me! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, so I’m calling you out publicly or your creepy behaviour. You want to comment publicly in an offensive way on something I post, I’ll call you out on it.
> 
> Anytime you want to apologize for your pee stain and feces fetish, I’ll be prepared to drop it. Otherwise be prepared to be called out for your childish behaviour.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I DO want to comment publicly on what you wrote and I'm not much concerned if you're offended. I also don't really care if you "drop it" or continue to "call me out" — it's all the same to me!




Perhaps you should at least not make your preoccupation with pee stains and feces so publically obvious then. Seems kind of like something a teenager might obsess over. But whatever: you do you, creepy or not.


----------



## Macfury

Are you talking about the teenage students in your school or only the ones you present your ideas to? There may be a connection...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you should at least not make your preoccupation with pee stains and feces so publically obvious then. Seems kind of like something a teenager might obsess over. But whatever: you do you, creepy or not.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup, so I’m calling you out publicly for your creepy behaviour. You want to comment publicly in an offensive way on something I post, I’ll call you out on it.
> 
> Anytime you want to apologize for your pee stain and feces fetish, I’ll be prepared to drop it. Otherwise be prepared to be called out for your childish behaviour.


Speaking of childish behaviour 🤣


----------



## Beej

Malignant NYTimes
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/29/opinion/immigration-children-detention.html


> The identities of the individual Customs and Border Protection agents who are physically separating children from their families and staffing the detention centers are not undiscoverable. Immigration lawyers have agent names; journalists reporting at the border have names, photos and even videos. These agents’ actions should be publicized, particularly in their home communities.
> 
> This is not an argument for doxxing — it’s about exposure of their participation in atrocities to audiences whose opinion they care about.


Note the touch of Orwell -- it's not doxxing, it is exposure to audiences.


> Many Americans have been asking each other “But what can we DO?” The answer is that we call these abuses mass atrocities and use the tool kit this label offers us to fight them.


That's pretty clear. Changing the label from abuse to atrocity offers a new tool kit. The label offers the tool kit, not one's own morality. Easy! 

And you had better not disagree, or they will change your label to Nazi, which gives them a new tool kit to do anything they want to you.


----------



## Macfury

The left is looking frighteningly like it did following the Russian Revolution.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> The left is looking frighteningly like it did following the Russian Revolution.


And they're both connected to the French Revolution. Similar tactics and philosophies; sometimes explicitly so. I've seen an argument connecting all this trash back to the sophists (like a deadly leech that emerges after a society compounds many rapid successes).


----------



## Beej

Examples of tools from the new tool kit. Recall that there's a new tool kit for "activists", offered simply by changing someone's label.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...o-portland-proud-boys-alt-right-a8981331.html


> Andy Ngo was surrounded and beaten by protesters wearing black with their faces concealed, while being covered in a milkshake, eggs and spray on Saturday.
> 
> He was taken to hospital for treatment after posting a video showing bruises and cuts to his face and neck.
> 
> “I just got beat up by the crowd,” Mr Ngo said. “I was in the middle of the street and they stole my GoPro and punched me several times in my face and my head. I’m bleeding.”


It doesn't matter if you are centrist, conservative, or a "tough on crime" liberal. Their label for you is what justifies the violence.


----------



## wonderings

Beej said:


> Examples of tools from the new tool kit. Recall that there's a new tool kit for "activists", offered simply by changing someone's label.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...o-portland-proud-boys-alt-right-a8981331.html
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if you are centrist, conservative, or a "tough on crime" liberal. Their label for you is what justifies the violence.


Would love to hear how those anti-fa terrorists justify their fascist actions when they are congratulating each other after more attacks on free speech.


----------



## Beej

wonderings said:


> Would love to hear how those anti-fa terrorists justify their fascist actions when they are congratulating each other after more attacks on free speech.


They live in a bubble. Here's an example of some true statements mingled with BS from a "reputable" source.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/andy-ngo-quillette-antifa-proud-boys_n_5d1a1275e4b07f6ca5811e0c

From there, their information sources only get worse. It's not that different on the right, but the left has more mainstream support and/or tolerance of the behaviour.

The reporting on this is, overall, terribly skewed in most sources. Here's an example of an alternative:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ivists-pile-on-journalist-after-antifa-attack

The list of pro and anti sources goes on, but the primary sources show the same thing: an individual is violently attacked.


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* #Unwantedivanka: awkward moment at G20 prompts slew of Trump parodies

*Related:* [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf20wypum5o[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

That is some really clumsy PhotoShop work! Reminds me of the old wax and Exacto days.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Related:* #Unwantedivanka: awkward moment at G20 prompts slew of Trump parodies
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:* [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf20wypum5o[/ame]


----------



## Beej

wonderings said:


> Would love to hear how those anti-fa terrorists justify their fascist actions when they are congratulating each other after more attacks on free speech.


Here is a supporter rationalizing the violence in his own words.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1146206172434669568

The steps are to believe unverified rumour of bad behaviour in a one-sided manner, and to be okay with violence in response. 

Buttressing this is that, on one's own side, similar rumours are downplayed or outright ignored and, of course, "he had it coming" is not seen as a valid argument to beat the good people.

Concise version: Label. Beat. Repeat.


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Concise version: Label. Beat. Repeat.


Concise Response To Anti-fa Version: Shoot. To. Kill.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> That is some really clumsy PhotoShop work! Reminds me of the old wax and Exacto days.


My very first Photoshop blends were better than that. 

I would think with all of the pumpkin head's flaws, his detractors would find plenty of ammo without having to resort to deception.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> My very first Photoshop blends were better than that.


Interesting (not). You and MF both decide to avoid the issue at hand, and spin the issue to the quality of the imagery. No comment at all on an unqualified handbag designer playing diplomat at the G20? Do you think it's OK that "bring your kid to work day" in the Trump regime has been allowed to reach these heights of ridiculousness?



eMacMan said:


> I would think with all of the pumpkin head's flaws, his detractors would find plenty of ammo without having to resort to deception.


What is this deception of which you speak?


----------



## Macfury

Yes, I think it's OK to bring her along. She's clearly been an asset in engaging dignitaries across the world. 

I also had no problem with the last president allowing that know-nothing Michelle Obama to spout off. You were dead silent during all of that.



CubaMark said:


> Interesting (not). You and MF both decide to avoid the issue at hand, and spin the issue to the quality of the imagery. No comment at all on an unqualified handbag designer playing diplomat at the G20? Do you think it's OK that "bring your kid to work day" in the Trump regime has been allowed to reach these heights of ridiculousness?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, I think it's OK to bring her along. She's clearly been an asset in engaging dignitaries across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> I also had no problem with the last president allowing that know-nothing Michelle Obama to spout off. You were dead silent during all of that.




You would say that. There’s a difference between First Lady and first daughter. Or son—they’re just as idiotic.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You would say that. There’s a difference between First Lady and first daughter. Or son—they’re just as idiotic.


I will agree that Michelle and Ivanka are equally idiotic.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Yes, I think it's OK to bring her along. She's clearly been an asset in engaging dignitaries across the world.


You have interesting metrics. And an interesting definition of "engaging". You *did* see that video, yes? IMF Director Christine Lagarde's expression was priceless



Macfury said:


> I also had no problem with the last president allowing that know-nothing Michelle Obama to spout off. You were dead silent during all of that.


*Interesting.* 

A pretty white girl with a BA in economics from the Univ. of Pennsylvania, handbag designer _extraordinaire_, and whose real estate dealings within the Trump organization were, shall we say, less than successful, and even less ethical; 

VS​
a black woman who is a Princeton and Harvard law graduate; practising lawyer; Associate Dean at the Univ. of Chicago; Vice-President, Univ. of Chicago Medical Center.

*OH, yeah, *I can totally see your point - Ivanka is _clearly_ the one who should be representing the USA in significant global political and economic events. Clearly the most qualified.... 

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 

_How can you breathe with your nose so far up Trump's ample derriere?_


----------



## Macfury

Why turn it into a race issue, CM? I have no problem with either family member accompanying the president. 

You do seem to have a bit of a "thing" for Michelle O., though.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why turn it into a race issue, CM? I have no problem with either family member accompanying the president.
> 
> 
> 
> You do seem to have a bit of a "thing" for Michelle O., though.




He’s not turning it into a race issue. But it escapes you that it’s clearly an intelligence and qualifications issue. And he’s dead right about you and Trump’s derrière.


----------



## Macfury

He referred to one person being white and the other person being black. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> He’s not turning it into a race issue.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Here’s another that I’m sure Macfury will have issues with the photoshopping, again completely missing the point.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, a terrible job. Why not include some dreadful Photoshops of Ted and Robert Kennedy while you're at it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Here’s another that I’m sure Macfury will have issues with the photoshopping, again completely missing the point.


----------



## eMacMan

Probably says something that no one has bothered to create an Independence Day thread for our neighbours south of the 49th.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

They should have gone with the original film title and just called it Airport '76--then the rest of the changes would have been amusing. I don't know why lefty memes need to be so fatally unfunny.


----------



## CubaMark

So the Buffoon-in-Chief has trouble reading a teleprompter.... but that's alright, anyone could make that mistake, I mean, it's a tough thing, reading words....

Oh, wait....



FeXL said:


> Was referring to Teleprompter Barry, who, like The Dope, is unable to articulate two sentences without saying "ah" or "um" a dozen times.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

A meme needs at least a little picture, Freddie.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Man, that Tapatalk APP needs work!


----------



## CubaMark

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Reminds me of: Photoshop Troll Who Takes Photo Requests Too Literally


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
> 
> Reminds me of: Photoshop Troll Who Takes Photo Requests Too Literally


That's hilarious! :clap:


----------



## Macfury

Freddie reminds you of a troll?



CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
> 
> Reminds me of: Photoshop Troll Who Takes Photo Requests Too Literally


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of: Photoshop Troll Who Takes Photo Requests Too Literally




That’s who I was thinking of too.


----------



## Macfury

Except his are well done!



Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s who I was thinking of too.


----------



## FeXL

Bring it!!!

Squad Goals!: Democrats Will Be Forced to Vote on Impeachment, Which Is What Nancy Pelosi Was Hoping to Avoid



> I agree with the Squad on this, and not in an ironic way, either: I'm tired of the establishment of either party (actually, two wings of the same overparty) deciding which debates will be permitted to be had publicly and which will be hushed up and worked out behind closed doors.
> 
> So, vote. Let's get it all on the record.
> 
> And if that puts your allegedly "moderate" members at risk -- tough ****.


Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

Diversity!

22 Members of Real American Organization MS-13 Arrested for Hacking Seven Victims to Death With Just As American as You Or Me Machetes



> So American. I can't believe the racism here in arresting them for just living life to the full in America, which is the world's Las Vegas -- whatever happens in America, stays in America.
> 
> *Some people literally had their hearts hacked out with machetes.*


Ah know, ah know. Just some poor, misguided yoots...


----------



## FeXL

And Thus, With A Simple Tweet



> _“… the major media players stopped focusing on ICE raids and immigration and got swept up in running a flame war play by play.”_
> 
> Har.


Related (from the Fodder Queen):

Poll: The Public is Defining the Democrat Party by Alexandria Donkey-Chompers, and the Public Loathes Alexandria Donkey-Chompers



> Panic time?
> 
> Top Democrats are circulating a poll showing that one of the House's most progressive members — Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — has become a definitional face for the party with a crucial group of swing voters.
> 
> ...
> 
> "If all voters hear about is AOC, it could put the [House] majority at risk," said a top Democrat who is involved in 2020 congressional races. "he's getting all the news and defining everyone else's races."​




Shhhh. Don't say a word...


----------



## FeXL

Not enough by half.

Facebook 'to be fined $5bn over Cambridge Analytica scandal'



> US regulators have approved a record $5bn (£4bn) fine on Facebook to settle an investigation into data privacy violations, reports in US media say.
> 
> The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has been investigating allegations that political consultancy Cambridge Analytica improperly obtained the data of up to 87 million Facebook users.
> 
> The settlement was approved by the FTC in a 3-2 vote, sources told US media.
> 
> Facebook and the FTC told the BBC they had no comment on the reports.


----------



## FeXL

Good. Now names are on the record.

House Votes to Kill Fakey-Fake Impeachment Inquiry



> Should be a lot of anger among the emotionally incontinent.
> 
> The resolution went down on a vote of 332 to 95, with all Republicans voting for it and more Democrats in favor of killing the impeachment resolution than were for backing it. There was a single abstention.
> 
> After hours of uncertainty about the mechanics of how the measure would be dealt with, Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy of California, a Trump loyalist, moved to table the resolution – not long after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she would 'deal' with it, without specifying precisely how.​


----------



## FeXL

B-bb-bu-but...ORANGEMANBAD!!!

Trump Administration Has Reunited 95% Of Migrant Children With Their Families Or Sponsors



> As Democrats and their media supporters continue to claim that the Trump administration is putting “kids in cages” — despite no such outrage when President Barack Obama did the same — a new report finds that the administration has reunited nearly all of the children separated at the border.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure is quiet around here lately.


----------



## Macfury

Nothing but good news these days!


----------



## FeXL

Peter Thiel: Google May be Infiltrated by Chinese Intelligence



> He says Google must answer three questions:
> 
> "Number one: How many foreign intelligence agencies have infiltrated your Manhattan Project for AI (artificial intelligence)?" Thiel reportedly asked. "Number two: Does Google’s senior management consider itself to have been thoroughly infiltrated by Chinese intelligence?"
> 
> Thiel then slammed Google for its decision to work with the Chinese military while refusing to renew a contract with the U.S. Department of Defense.​


----------



## FeXL

Absolutely Brutal RNC Ad Links "The Squad's" Rhetoric, Including Promise That They'll "Bring the Fire," to Domestic Terrorist Antifa Attack on ICE Facility



> Did Liz Harrington, new-ish RNC spokesman, script this ad? She was documenting all this stuff on her Twitter feed.
> 
> She's #Woke, in the good way.
> 
> NEW: The RNC releases a brutal new campaign ad highlighting the extreme rhetoric coming from Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), and Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) pic.twitter.com/8hEtPv4UyD
> — Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) July 17, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Deporting Illegal Aliens Saves Americans Billions in Tax Dollars



> Deporting the roughly 11 to 22 million illegal aliens living across the United States saves American taxpayers hundreds of billions in public costs, analysis finds.
> 
> Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is expected to conduct a mass deportation effort next week, where at least 2,000 illegal aliens who have final orders for removal will be arrested, detained, and deported from the U.S.
> 
> American taxpayers stand ready to benefit significantly from the deportation of thousands of illegal aliens, all of whom have been ordered deported and have refused to leave.


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> That's not rain you feel.
> 
> They are liars, they are sneaks, they are an integral part of the vast deep state that both parties have been building since Woodrow Wilson's disastrous presidency. And the worst part is the thinly veiled contempt for us that they demonstrate every single time they trot out another budget deal that does exactly the opposite of what they campaigned on and what they said it would do.
> 
> Oh, President Trump covers himself by touting the increased military budget, and that sounds good, but in the grand scheme of things we don't need more money, we need better oversight and cost controls and a single-minded focus on what the military's job really is, rather than the amazing variety of crap that they spend money on.


Yeppers.


----------



## Macfury

Robert Mueller testimony this morning making him look like a doddering fool. I'm guessing Andrew Weissman was behind the so-called investigation, 'cause Mueller can't answer even basic questions about his own report.


----------



## FeXL

It's a TGF.

Related:

DC Media Consensus: Mueller Seems Senile and Unaware, and His Doddering Performance Suggests That the 18 Angry Democrats Working for Him Ran the Investigation Without His Supervision

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal (Bumped with updates)



> Bad day for the Democrats. Mueller looks like a parent you’d take the car keys away from.
> 
> — Mike Cernovich (@Cernovich) July 24, 2019​


When the enemy is busy shooting themselves in the foot, all you can do is hand them another full magazine...


----------



## FeXL

Further on the above.

Mueller deflected questions 198 times. We tracked when he did it.



> All eyes and ears are on former special counsel Robert Mueller today. Republicans hope to highlight what they see as a faulty premise for the Mueller probe. Democrats hope he'll say something to incriminate President Donald Trump, or at least bring more Americans to understand what they see as the president’s wrongdoings. But how many times will Mueller refuse to say much at all? How many times will Mueller declare an answer "outside of my purview"?


Eight Questions for Russia Hoaxers to Answer After End of Mueller Probe



> Now that special counsel Robert S. Mueller’s final report predictably found no collusion between Donald Trump or his 2016 campaign and Russia, it is time for the appropriate investigative authorities to probe the possibility of crimes committed in the perpetuation of the Russia collusion hoax.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Ima just gonna leave this here.


----------



## Macfury

Is that about the money Obama funneled to to Fusion GPS so that Hillary could collude with the Russians?


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ima just gonna leave this here.


.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Is that about the money Obama funneled to to Fusion GPS so that Hillary could collude with the Russians?


Sure is quiet around here...


----------



## FeXL

Linsdsey Graham: After Mueller's Testimony, It's Important to Find Out Who Really Directed and Authored the So-Called "Mueller" Report



> So I hate to engage in that unamerican, Russia-sponsored past-time called "score-keeping" and "accountability," but some of us for some time have been saying that Mueller was just a figurehead and that this whole sham was the work of 19 Angry Democrats, and some others -- Noah Rothman, AllahPundit, Baseball Cuck, Jonah Goldberg, David French, David Frum, the magnetic Seth Mandel and the incandescently intelligent Jay Caruso - the Queens of Twitter, the usual sell-outs, grifters, morons, nepots, subliterates, and straight-up leftwingers -- have been telling us that no, Robert Mueller is the Man in the Arena and the Only True Patriot in America and we cannot criticize this investigation for that would be to criticize Mueller, who is above criticism.
> 
> So once again, we have to tally the score. I'm sorry, I know it's totally unfair for people who make a living at analysis and prognostication to suggest perhaps we can check to see how our previous claims have aligned with revealed reality, but we do have to check.


Related:

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> Bryon York;
> 
> Mueller’s performance raised questions that reached far beyond one appearance before one committee. It called into doubt the degree to which Mueller was in charge of the entire special counsel investigation.
> 
> “You wonder how much of this was affecting the investigation,” one Republican member of the House said as he watched Mueller’s testimony. “It sheds a lot of light on what happened the last two years. He wasn’t in charge.”​
> Liz Sheld has 5 key take-aways, plus this — “So who was running the show for 2 years? We need to find out.”
> 
> I think they already know.


Related, too:

NYT: Mueller Didn't Do Much Work and Kept Short Hours



> _Now_ they tell us.
> 
> After his doddering performance. But for three years, he was a combination of Sgt. Rock and The Punisher, fighting the Cong with one hand and Mafia hoods with the other, and banging out bills of indictment with his prehensile yet girthy manhood.


Finally! An appropriate amount of snark... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Niiiice!!!

Patriotism Wins in Rep. Ilhan Omar’s Backyard



> On June 17th, the St. Louis Park City Council voted 5-0 to get rid of the Pledge of Allegiance. On July 15th, just as the abolition was set to take effect, the Council voted 7-0 in a room crowded with American flags and red, white and blue signs, to bring the Pledge back. Outside a giant inflatable bald eagle kept watch.
> 
> It was an unlikely victory for patriotism in an implausible place.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Is that about the money Obama funneled to to Fusion GPS so that Hillary could collude with the Russians?


It is from some event, think it was a conversation student group that Trump spoke to. They had that up in the background instead of the official Presidential seal. The article I read about it said it was not simply a mistake, no intended to be a statement or anything. The guy doing the AV was under short time to be prepared and google image searched the presidential seal and saw that and used it. Of course this guy was fired because mistakes like this when they say it really was a mistake means you should never work again. I personally do not think it was a big deal and can see someone taking a quick glance when in a rush to get this all setup and grabbing this one by mistake.


----------



## Macfury

Yes, but all of the symbolism relates to Obama's collusion with the Hillary campaign and the Russians.



wonderings said:


> It is from some event, think it was a conversation student group that Trump spoke to. They had that up in the background instead of the official Presidential seal. The article I read about it said it was not simply a mistake, no intended to be a statement or anything. The guy doing the AV was under short time to be prepared and google image searched the presidential seal and saw that and used it. Of course this guy was fired because mistakes like this when they say it really was a mistake means you should never work again. I personally do not think it was a big deal and can see someone taking a quick glance when in a rush to get this all setup and grabbing this one by mistake.


----------



## FeXL

Hate when that happens...

UPenn study on racism in Trump era SMASHES the Left's narrative



> A recent study from the University of Pennsylvania finds that racism in America has *significantly decreased* since President Donald Trump’s election in 2016, directly contradicting the narrative pushed among many academics and mainstream media personalities.


Bold mine.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> .




Notice anything peculiar about the seal?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yes, but all of the symbolism relates to Obama's collusion with the Hillary campaign and the Russians.




Uhhhh....no. Hillary was not known for golfing, for example. “45 is a puppet” is also a reference to DJT, regardless of your own counting problem.


----------



## Macfury

Obama was known for golfing and for colluding with Russia:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.










Freddie_Biff said:


> Uhhhh....no. Hillary was not known for golfing, for example. “45 is a puppet” is also a reference to DJT, regardless of your own counting problem.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Notice anything peculiar about the seal?


Of course. Just wondered why you posted an unfortunate mistake that cost a techie his job. Nothing nefarious about it. Except the guy who photoshopped the thing in the first place.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Of course. Just wondered why you posted an unfortunate mistake that cost a techie his job. Nothing nefarious about it. Except the guy who photoshopped the thing in the first place.




Unfortunate mistake? I thought a guy like you would be a strong proponent of proofreading your work before publishing it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Obama was known for golfing and for colluding with Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




Again you miss the point. What does the number 45 refer to do you think? As in “45 is a puppet”?


----------



## Macfury

It was the taunt of the Obama Deep State. But Trump escaped the trap and is now his own man!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again you miss the point. What does the number 45 refer to do you think? As in “45 is a puppet”?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It was the taunt of the Obama Deep State. But Trump escaped the trap and is now his own man!




You’re on drugs, apparently. Hope they’re working for you.


----------



## Macfury

You're way out of the news loop, Freddie. Keep watching the CBC!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re on drugs, apparently. Hope they’re working for you.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Unfortunate mistake? I thought a guy like you would be a strong proponent of proofreading your work before publishing it.


I do. Too bad you don't. One more rush by you to post fake news that ties lies to the target.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> I do. Too bad you don't. One more rush by you to post fake news that ties lies to the target.



Ummm, this isn’t fake news, Don. It really happened. One of the president’s men made him look like an idiot, intentionally or not. He didn’t need much help either. 

Fake news refers to the things that didn’t actually happen. Just so we’re clear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

I Guess, For a _Start_...



> 🚨HOLY🚨
> 
> Trump just now in the Oval Office:
> 
> - Subpoena all of Obama's records.
> - Subpoena all of the records having to do with Hillary Clinton.
> - Subpoena the Clinton Foundation.
> - Look into the book deal that President Obama made.
> - GOP will hold House, Senate & White House. pic.twitter.com/blRLP1k6fI
> — Benny (@bennyjohnson) July 26, 2019​


----------



## CubaMark

*How Fundraisers Convinced Conservatives to Donate $10 Million — Then Kept Almost All of It.*
_Beginning in 2012, operatives used a federal PAC to target small-dollar donors, claiming they’d use
the money to oppose Barack Obama. But that’s not what happened._

After recruiting thousands of donors for the American Conservative Union — the powerful organization behind the annual CPAC conference — a Republican political operative pushed the same contributors to give millions to a PAC that promised to go after then-President Barack Obama, but then steered much of their donations to himself and his partners.

The PAC, called the Conservative Majority Fund, has raised nearly $10 million since mid-2012 and continues to solicit funds to this day, primarily from thousands of steadfast contributors to conservative causes, many of them senior citizens. But it has made just $48,400 in political contributions to candidates and committees. Public records indicate its main beneficiaries are the operative Kelley Rogers, who has a history of disputes over allegedly unethical fundraising, and one of the largest conservative fundraising companies, InfoCision Management Corp., which charged millions of dollars in fundraising fees.

The saga of how politically connected fundraisers used one of the nation’s leading conservative organizations as a springboard for fundraising that mainly benefited the fundraisers themselves sheds light on the growing problem of so-called scam PACs — organizations that take advantage of loosened campaign finance laws to reap windfalls for insiders while directing only a small portion of receipts to actual political advocacy.

(Read on.... ProPublica with Politico)​


----------



## Macfury

Got news for you, CM--almost all of the PACs do this. That's why you should never give money to them.


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ummm, this isn’t fake news, Don. It really happened. One of the president’s men made him look like an idiot, *intentionally or not*. He didn’t need much help either.
> 
> Fake news refers to the things that didn’t actually happen. Just so we’re clear.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, to be absolutely clear your allegation in red above clearly shows it is fake news.

A real news story is fact. It leaves no doubt in a reader's mind. It either states the news is fact or fiction. Real news never leaves any doubt. It either happened that way or it did not.

Thus it is fake news by your own admission as you seem to have doubt how it happened. Thanks for the confirmation to clear up what the story really is, fake news.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Curious that you've never posted an article critical of Progs that have done the same or similar.

Say, f'rinstance, Bill's Wife, The Clinton Foundation, etc...



CubaMark said:


> How Fundraisers Convinced Conservatives to Donate $10 Million — Then Kept Almost All of It.


----------



## FeXL

We were told Trump’s inquisitor was a calm, even-handed Republican with impeccable credentials who was trusted by everyone. What we learned yesterday was that the inquisition was run by the Democrat lawyer for Hillary Clinton’s aide who destroyed evidence with a hammer.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bro-Fo.

Ilhan Omar Seeking Divorce From Second Husband, The One Who's Not Her Brother



> I don't think this is a big deal, to be honest. If she's already demonstrated she's willing to divorce her own brother, obviously she wouldn't have any compunctions about divorcing someone she's not related to.
> 
> It's just logicalistic.*
> 
> ...
> 
> *Someone said this to me, and I'm not sure if this is snark or a genuine legal analysis: "She has to divorce this guy so she can remarry her brother, so he can't be forced to testify against her."*


Bold mine...

Related:

David French: Backwards Beliefs and Islamic Propaganda Didn't Radicalize Ilhan Omar.
_You Did_.



> It’s apparently America’s fault that Ilhan Omar hates Jews, defends terrorists, and defames the very men who gave their lives protecting the country she abandoned. https://t.co/8ayYfsNPfJ pic.twitter.com/Vw99Yeb7lF
> — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) July 16, 2019​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Curious that you've never posted an article critical of Progs that have done the same or similar.
> 
> Say, f'rinstance, Bill's Wife, The Clinton Foundation, etc...


Neither The Tyee, nor Crooks & Liars reports anything negative involving the left, so he never sees it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> Well, to be absolutely clear your allegation in red above clearly shows it is fake news.
> 
> 
> 
> A real news story is fact. It leaves no doubt in a reader's mind. It either states the news is fact or fiction. Real news never leaves any doubt. It either happened that way or it did not.
> 
> 
> 
> Thus it is fake news by your own admission as you seem to have doubt how it happened. Thanks for the confirmation to clear up what the story really is, fake news.




Don, you’re losing it. Did a fake seal of the president appear behind Trump on stage for an hour while he spoke at a rally or not? In fact, it did. Real news. Doesn’t matter what the intention was. You’re so wrong (once again). I can’t believe I need to explain this to you. 

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cn...ussia-presidential-seal-tpusa-trnd/index.html


----------



## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> Don, you’re losing it. Did a fake seal of the president appear behind Trump on stage for an hour while he spoke at a rally or not? In fact, it did. Real news. Doesn’t matter what the intention was. You’re so wrong (once again). I can’t believe I need to explain this to you.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cn...ussia-presidential-seal-tpusa-trnd/index.html


It is not that fact I dispute as fake news. You posted the story said they didn't know it was intentional or not. That is the fake news and you created it. 

The story factually reported there was "zero malicious intent".

Got it now?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> It is not that fact I dispute as fake news. You posted the story said they didn't know it was intentional or not. That is the fake news and you created it.
> 
> 
> 
> The story factually reported there was "zero malicious intent".
> 
> 
> 
> Got it now?




The news is not whether it was intentional, but that it happened. And you’re not disputing that it happened. Therefore not fake news. Good lord you’re stubborn.


----------



## SINC

Just had to be sure you understood that it was you who claimed the story didn't get the facts right and in doing so made it appear to be fake news when it wasn't.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Neither The Tyee, nor Crooks & Liars reports anything negative involving the left, so he never sees it.


The wilful ignorance displayed on these boards is astounding...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Curious that you've never posted an article critical of Progs that have done the same or similar.
> 
> Say, f'rinstance, Bill's Wife, The Clinton Foundation, etc...


Feel free to post any of those articles if you can find them. I haven't seen 'em. 

You also continue to infer that I support the Democrats, that I agree with their politics: that's incorrect. Obama, Clintons, etc., are anathema me as a Canadian and student of global history. 

The Democrats, for whatever "progressive" social policies they may promote, nonetheless - when they hold the reins of power - continue to wage wars of empire, interfere in the domestic affairs of sovereign nations, massacre innocents (with a particularly odd penchant for drone strikes on weddings), etc. The Democrats are easier to take than the insane, racist, genocidal policies of the rabid right-wing, but they are not to be trusted nor accommodated.

Republican or Democrat, they are still the two faces of the United States of Corporate America.


----------



## Macfury

Regardless of how you feel about the parties, you remain silent as the tomb when Democrats err, and sound the alarm bells like your ass was on fire when you point to a conservative.



CubaMark said:


> Feel free to post any of those articles if you can find them. I haven't seen 'em.
> 
> You also continue to infer that I support the Democrats, that I agree with their politics: that's incorrect. Obama, Clintons, etc., are anathema me as a Canadian and student of global history.
> 
> The Democrats, for whatever "progressive" social policies they may promote, nonetheless - when they hold the reins of power - continue to wage wars of empire, interfere in the domestic affairs of sovereign nations, massacre innocents (with a particularly odd penchant for drone strikes on weddings), etc. The Democrats are easier to take than the insane, racist, genocidal policies of the rabid right-wing, but they are not to be trusted nor accommodated.
> 
> Republican or Democrat, they are still the two faces of the United States of Corporate America.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Quelle surprise.

As has been noted, they won't show up on The Tyee, Crooks & Liars or MotherCorpse.



CubaMark said:


> I haven't seen 'em.


You support the Prog left. That is enough & that is all.



CubaMark said:


> The Democrats are easier to take than the insane, racist, genocidal policies of the rabid right-wing, but they are not to be trusted nor accommodated.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> As has been noted, they won't show up on The Tyee, Crooks & Liars or MotherCorpse.


So... you got nothin'?  :lmao:



FeXL said:


> You support the Prog left. That is enough & that is all.


Your unhinged obsession would impress even Pavlov....


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot. 

I got lots. Just ain't doing your homework for you.



CubaMark said:


> So... you got nothin'?


The iron of you calling somebody else out for "unhinged obsession's". Clock Girl and Catlicker Boyz much?

Call it a sociological study of wilful ignorance & basic stupidity. I _do_ find it fascinating. Perhaps I can even get funding... 



CubaMark said:


> Your unhinged obsession would impress even Pavlov....


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump aide submitted drafts of 2016 'America First' energy speech to UAE for edits, emails show*

When candidate Donald Trump prepared to give a major energy speech during the 2016 campaign, one of his closest advisers provided a pre-speech review to senior United Arab Emirates officials, an unorthodox move that caught the attention of federal investigators, according to emails and text messages uncovered by a House Oversight Committee investigation.

“The Trump Administration has virtually obliterated the lines normally separating government policy making from corporate and foreign interests,”.....

Two weeks before Trump was scheduled to deliver the energy policy speech, Thomas Barrack, a California investment tycoon with extensive contacts in the Middle East and who later helped oversee Trump’s inauguration, provided a former business associate inside the United Arab Emirates with an advance copy of the candidate’s planned remarks. The associate then told Barrack he shared them with UAE and Saudi government officials, after which Barrack arranged for language requested by the UAE officials to be added to the speech with the help of Trump’s campaign manager at the time, Paul Manafort.

“This is the most likely final version of the speech. It has the language you want,” Manafort confirmed in an email to Barrack on the day of the speech, according to the report. Manafort has since gone to prison for financial crimes unrelated to his campaign work.

(ABC News)​


----------



## Macfury

Obama allowed a Monsanto-sponsored senator to write the "Monsanto Protection Act."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/critics-slam-obama-for-protecting-monsanto/


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Obama allowed a Monsanto-sponsored senator to write the "Monsanto Protection Act."


Not to mention the untold times that Dem politicians have been given drafts of questions from MSM, among others, prior to being interviewed. Wonder where the hue & cry was then...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Not to mention the untold times that Dem politicians have been given drafts of questions from MSM, among others, prior to being interviewed. Wonder where the hue & cry was then...


Wasn't reported in _the Tyee_, didn't happen.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Wasn't reported in _the Tyee_, didn't happen.


_MotherJones_ must have missed it, as well.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




^^^^^ If only!


----------



## Macfury

The lefty book I know has the pigs living in a Democrat-run city--and it turns into slum.


----------



## Beej

From the Democrat debate, Williamson hints at a key policy.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/politics/marianne-williamson-debate-performance/index.html



> Something emotional and psychological that will not be emerging from anything on this stage. It will emerge from something I'm the one who is qualified to bring forth.


I think she is proposing to summon a love demon. 

To news media: please let Williamson into round three of the debates.


----------



## Macfury

The Dems need more people like her, because she's clearly more grounded in reality than the rest of that bunch.


----------



## eMacMan

Let me preface this by saying at one time I lived in a rural area with only one radio station available and for three hours every day Mike Rosen was the call in host. 

He had a remarkable ability to find stats that supported his beliefs/agenda and was totally blind to anything that contradicted the same. That said in this article he is mostly bang on. One glaring exception is when he claims the Rebloodlicans mostly support TABOR. When it was placed on the ballot, neither party was what I would call supportive. The Rebloodlicans were at best neutral and the Democrypts with a few very visible exceptions were opposed.

https://gazette.com/opinion/columni...cle_a09d59d6-afbf-11e9-bcfa-b77c04379f7c.html
Article is a little too complex to sum up with quick quotes so I would urge you to read it. Let me also say that a TABOR act in Alberta would have effectively stopped Rachael's carbon tax dead in the water. Can't think of anyone besides the NDP MLAs and Freddie who would have voted for the carbon tax.


> What’s your opinion of Article X, Section 20 of the Colorado Constitution? I suspect the reply of the overwhelming majority of Coloradans to that question would be: “Huh?” But hold that thought.
> 
> If you’re a Colorado taxpayer, you better get a firm grip on your wallet. Once again, the forces of unlimited government and the folks who know how to spend your money better than you do are after it. The dragon they want to slay for the umpteenth time is commonly known as TABOR, The Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights.
> 
> This was an amendment added to the state constitution via a ballot question by a direct vote of the people in the general election of 1992. It limits spending by all levels of government under a formula that considers population growth and inflation. It also requires approval by the voters for tax increases.





> One bump on the road to TABOR repeal is the matter of the exact language to be used in briefly describing the issue in the title of that ballot question? This has often been a sticking point in past elections with advocates on both sides of issues complaining about confusing or misleading wording. The arbiter of these disputes is the Colorado Title Board.
> 
> The language proposed by Carol Hedges, executive director of the anti-TABOR Colorado Fiscal Institute, would simply refer to the repeal of “Article X, Section 20” of the Colorado constitution. Hedges argued, “Any voter that doesn’t know what Article X, Section 20 is, will go to the Colorado Constitution and learn what it’s about.” Apparently, she has incredible self-control making that statement with a straight face.


----------



## Macfury

Guess this one missed your news feed, Mr. Haven't seen-em...

https://nypost.com/2019/08/03/feds-...-saikat-chakrabarti-after-sudden-resignation/



> The two PACs being probed, Brand New Congress and Justice Democrats, were both set up by Chakrabarti to support progressive candidates across the country.





CubaMark said:


> Feel free to post any of those articles if you can find them. I haven't seen 'em.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Guess this one missed your news feed, Mr. Haven't seen-em...
> 
> https://nypost.com/2019/08/03/feds-...-saikat-chakrabarti-after-sudden-resignation/


:lmao: Sorry, I mean, I know he resigned 11 hours ago - that's like, forever in news-cycle time. Can't imagine how I might have missed it. 

Couldn't be because I was taking in coverage of two mass shootings in the USA in as many days, nah, that can't be it. Must be my "prog bias" that keeps me from instantaneously posting news about AOC's now-ex Chief of Staff. 

Now that you've helpfully provided me with a link - yeah, looks bad for Chakrabarti. If he broke the rules, he should be punished, absolutely.

I imagine both the Republicans and Pelosi / Democrat traditional leadership are quite pleased at this turn of events.


----------



## Macfury

This story was already developing and being reported on when you posted the other one. Only the DOJ's involvement is new.



CubaMark said:


> :lmao: Sorry, I mean, I know he resigned 11 hours ago - that's like, forever in news-cycle time. Can't imagine how I might have missed it.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> This story was already developing and being reported on when you posted the other one. Only the DOJ's involvement is new.


Please, esteemed MacFury, forgive my lack of omniscience. I am but human.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Maybe if you work at it, we can confer you with honourary human status...



CubaMark said:


> Please, esteemed MacFury, forgive my lack of omniscience. I am but human.
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Maybe if you work at it, we can confer you with honourary human status...


One vote against...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That's embarrassingly weak stuff, CM. Even you have uploaded better.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>




Exactly. Just because Macfury doesn’t get it doesn’t mean it’s not right on the money.


----------



## Macfury

You haven't exactly demonstrated a sophisticated appreciation for editorial work...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Just because Macfury doesn’t get it doesn’t mean it’s not right on the money.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You haven't exactly demonstrated a sophisticated appreciation for editorial work...


Or a fundamental understanding of math...


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

From CubaMark, the guy who always criticized the US for not standing up to China. Trump spoke up against the appalling treatment of the Yugur's--and good ol' CM lets us know that Trump can't possibly stand up to the Chi-Coms.


----------



## eMacMan

Posting this ironic story without further comment.
https://gazette.com/news/immigrant-...cle_67b88ad6-ba1a-11e9-bd3b-fb6b8aeeb175.html


> A father of five who staunchly supported immigrants died when his motorcycle reportedly was hit by a Salvadoran motorist who sought sanctuary from deportation seven months ago in a Colorado Springs church.
> 
> Sean Buchanan’s family grieved his death Thursday and the tragic irony of an Aug. 2 wreck that involved a member of the very community Buchanan so ardently supported.
> 
> “Sean was an advocate for people who were trying to get into our country. He was a huge advocate,” said Amy Savage, a close family friend, standing in the family’s garage. “He just was a man who loved and accepted everyone.”


----------



## FeXL

Well, seein' as we're on the topic of "diversity"...

This criminal alien is accused of smothering 19 elderly victims to death. He should have been deported long ago



> At least 19 Texans were allegedly killed by someone who should never have been in the country, who had been in jail for other crimes and should have been deported. What if I told you that if we merely enforced and tightened existing laws, unvetted foreign nationals like this would never be able to commit subsequent crimes? “Do something!!,” you would say, right?


Criminal illegal alien who avoided deportation in a CHURCH has now allegedly killed father of five



> An illegal alien with a criminal history was ordered deported from Colorado by an immigration judge last December. In January, he sought refuge in a church and played the sympathy card in the media as if he had an entitlement not to be deported and “separated” from his family. He wasn’t deported. Now, in the ultimate avoidable death, this illegal alien with a long arrest record allegedly killed Sean Buchanan last Friday in a reckless driving crash. Mr. Buchanan is now separated from his wife and five children, permanently, in the grave.


----------



## FeXL

_And_ irony...

There's a reason we give cops... 



> ...all that artillery & kevlar underoos...
> 
> Two women who *volunteered for an anti-violence group* trying to stop gun violence in Chicago were among those *shot to death in weekend violence.*
> 
> *Chantell Grant and Andrea Stoudemire* were working as peacekeepers at a corner in Englewood on Friday night when they were shot dead after someone opened fire from an SUV.​
> In this case, "*working as peacekeepers*" can be translated as "*slaughtered like tethered goats.*"


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Now, in the ultimate avoidable death, this illegal alien with a long arrest record allegedly killed Sean Buchanan last Friday in a reckless driving crash.


I think the focus should be on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

“Whoo-hoo, you’re an orphan now!”

This baby, whose parents were killed shielding him from bullets in El Paso, poses for a photo op with the President and First Lady. All of the other injured people who were old enough to speak for themselves decided not to meet with POTUS.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I think the focus should be on giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.


What a great segue!

New York’s Jilted Silent Majority



> Last month, New York became the 13th state to grant drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants, securing a victory that liberals and open-borders advocates have fought for since Eliot Spitzer was governor. But Democrats should worry about how the debate unfolded in New York: a majority of state voters opposed the bill, including about 40 percent of surveyed Democrats, mainly because the law will confer real benefits on illegal residents, thus rewarding violators of the law. The question of voter fraud—dismissed as a canard by most on the left—raised alarms when Democrats tried to pass a bill that would have automatically registered all drivers to vote (though it required non-citizens affirmatively to opt out of voter registration). After Republican legislators called attention to the potential consequences, the bill was scuttled. As it is, a state driver’s license is all that is required for voter registration in New York, so the potential for abuse is there.


----------



## FeXL

I don't know if the numbers quoted are accurate or not, but I find the whole analysis...interesting.

Got Your Flu Shot Yet?



> I'm NOT going into Anti-Vaxxer Land and discussing the preservatives (like thimerasol or mercury) used in vaccines here, *but instead following the money. WHO PAYS and CUI BONO [who benefits?]*.


Bold mine.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> I don't know if the numbers quoted are accurate or not, but I find the whole analysis...interesting.
> 
> Got Your Flu Shot Yet?
> 
> Bold mine.


Last flu shot I had left me pretty much useless for about 8 weeks. Never again!


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> I don't know if the numbers quoted are accurate or not, but I find the whole analysis...interesting.
> 
> Got Your Flu Shot Yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Bold mine.


It must affect me in different ways than others. I was told to always get a flu shot by my cardiologist after my heart attacks back in August of 2000. I have since had 20 in all and never had any issues at all. Never had the flu either. Ditto for my wife. I guess we are among the lucky ones, no bad effects and no flu so I trust the shots entirely.


----------



## Macfury

Again, you make a complete fool of yourself.



Freddie_Biff said:


> “Whoo-hoo, you’re an orphan now!”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Again, you make a complete fool of yourself.




I’m not the one doing the thumbs up. That would be your hero, Individual 1.


----------



## Macfury

Great beckground work on your part, once again. Go back to your nap, Freddie.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not the one doing the thumbs up. That would be your hero, Individual 1.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Great beckground work on your part, once again. Go back to your nap, Freddie.




Individual 1 makes everything about himself, even a terribly timed photo op. When visiting with survivors he went on and on about his crowd size compared to Beto’s. If you have a defense for his actions please explain it.


----------



## Macfury

The photo of the baby was with his uncle and aunt. The uncle is a Trump supporter.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Individual 1 makes everything about himself...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The photo of the baby was with his uncle and aunt. The uncle is a Trump supporter.




Interesting how the baby, the one who could not speak for himself, was also the only injured person in El Paso who “agreed” to meet with Trump for the photo op. Talk about using a baby as a prop.


----------



## Macfury

No baby has a choice about who is in a photo. It was the uncle and aunt's decision.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Interesting how the baby, the one who could speak for himself, was also the only injured person in El Paso who “agreed” to meet with Trump for the photo op. Talk about using a baby as a prop.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie_Biff said:


> Talk about using a baby as a prop.


'Cause the Progs would never do something like that...

Where's the hue & cry, Freddie?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No baby has a choice about who is in a photo. It was the uncle and aunt's decision.




Do you think that the aunt and uncle looking at the photo afterwards may have found the thumbs up kind of inappropriate given the circumstances?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> 'Cause the Progs would never do something like that...
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the hue & cry, Freddie?



Why does it matter whether or not a “prog” has used a baby as a prop before? The circumstance is that the baby’s parents are dead and Trump seems to be celebrating that. I don’t care if a hundred “progs” have used babies to get attention before; the optics of this photo by Trump is extremely inappropriate. I don’t see how you can defend it.


----------



## Macfury

> Tito Anchondo, the uncle of baby Paul Anchondo, told The Associated Press on Friday that Trump “was just there to give his condolences and he was just being a human being.” He previously told NPR that he and his brother were Trump supporters.
> 
> “Is it that hard to try and understand that a family is trying to not be sad at a moment like this?” said Anchondo, who also appears in the photo along with his sister. “We’re trying to be as strong as we can. … My brother is gone.”
> 
> The child’s parents, Andre and Jordan Anchondo, were among 22 killed and about two dozen wounded when a gunman opened fire Saturday inside a Walmart packed with shoppers. Authorities say Jordan Ancondo was shielding the baby, while her husband shielded them both. The boy suffered broken fingers.



Of course the progressive left won't let the poor man say anything more:


> *Tito Anchondo declined to describe the encounter with Trump in more detail, saying he had received death threats. *“We should be coming together as a country at this time instead of threatening each other with hate messages,” he said.


https://time.com/5649166/trump-el-paso-shooting-baby-photo/



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think that the aunt and uncle looking at the photo afterwards may have found the thumbs up kind of inappropriate given the circumstances?


----------



## Macfury

You're up on your hind legs_ only this once?_



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why does it matter whether or not a “prog” has used a baby as a prop before? The circumstance is that the baby’s parents are dead and Trump seems to be celebrating that. I don’t care if a hundred “progs” have used babies to get attention before; the optics of this photo by Trump is extremely inappropriate. I don’t see how you can defend it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're up on your hind legs_ only this once?_



???

Speak English.


----------



## FeXL

I'm defending nothing. I'm merely throwing into sharp relief the hypocrisy of your selective outrage.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t see how you can defend it.


----------



## Macfury

You're firing on all cylinders, Freddie. From the Collins _English_ Dictionary:



> ...to become assertive, belligerent, etc.


https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/get-up-on-ones-hind-legs



Freddie_Biff said:


> ???
> 
> Speak English.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Administration Releases New Rule That Makes It Easier for the Government to Reject Green Card Requests



> It's based on whether you'll be a net drain on the country's resources, so obviously this is both irrational and racist.
> 
> The Trump administration on Monday released the final version of a controversial rule that dramatically increases the government's ability to reject green cards for people who are deemed likely to depend on government aid such as food stamps, housing assistance and Medicaid.
> 
> The new "public charge" rule would link a subject's immigration status to their income and their use of certain public programs.​


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Audit Finds 84,000 Duplicate Voter Records in California’s ‘Motor Voter’ System



> California’s ‘Motor Voter’ system has produced the kind of results that you would expect from a power-grabbing, progressive bureaucracy.
> 
> California’s ambitious effort to automate voter registration at Department of Motor Vehicle offices produced almost 84,000 duplicate records and more than twice that number with political party mistakes, according to an audit released Friday by state officials.
> 
> The analysis covered just the first five months of the new “motor voter” program, which was launched in April 2018. It found a wide array of problems with the rollout of the DMV system, including a limited amount of testing as well as inconsistent and confusing lines of communication between the state agencies involved in its creation. Many of the findings align with documents discovered by the Los Angeles Times in an investigation earlier this year of the motor voter program.
> 
> Auditors reviewed more than 3 million voter registration files, comparing records from both DMV and California’s secretary of state. They found 83,684 duplicate voter registrations, a mistake attributed to inconsistencies in what was listed for voters’ political party preferences.​


----------



## FeXL

When you've lost Vox...

Even Vox Writer Says Warren, Harris Were Wrong To Say Michael Brown Was Murdered By White Cop



> A writer from liberal website Vox.com called out Democratic presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris on Monday for falsely claiming former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson murdered Michael Brown during an incident that sparked the Black Lives Matter movement.
> 
> On the five-year anniversary of Brown’s death Friday, Warren said Wilson, who is white, “murdered” Brown during an Aug. 9, 2014, traffic stop.
> 
> Harris also said Brown, who is black, was murdered.


----------



## FeXL

Police Search for Suspect Who Shot At San Antonio ICE Office Building, Injuring One Person



> I suspect the shooter was an angry, crazy lily-white cracker ass cracker obsessed with sparking a race war.


Probably.


----------



## Beej

An article on U.S. free speech law. It focuses on what the writer says are common misconceptions, so it does not discuss every restriction, but is still an interesting read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...peech-cliches-media-should-stop-using/596506/

Background for popular legal one-liners is also provided.



> It dates back to a 1919 Supreme Court decision allowing the imprisonment of Charles Schenck for urging resistance to the draft in World War I. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. wrote that the “most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.” This decision led to a series of cases broadly endorsing the government’s ability to suppress speech that questioned official policy. But for more than half a century Schenck has unequivocally and universally been acknowledged as bad law.





> As a Jehovah’s Witness, Walter Chaplinsky (of Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) was a member of a religious minority subject to shocking abuse and injustice in the 1930s and ’40s. He was preaching on a street corner when a mob assaulted him; one man tried to impale him on a pole bearing the American flag. Police officers led him away rather than arresting his attackers, provoking him to call them fascists. For that offense he was prosecuted. So when you cite the fighting-words doctrine to urge punishment of bigotry, you’re relying on a doctrine built on the subjugation of religious minorities. Mind the irony.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Why would they embrace following a "redefinition" of marriage?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>


"Exactement!" as the French would say.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why would they embrace following a "redefinition" of marriage?


So Jesus can pass on some of His magic powers to the King of Israel of course.


----------



## Macfury

Why would Jesus be interested in the King of Israel? That's not remotely supported in theology.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why would Jesus be interested in the King of Israel? That's not remotely supported in theology.




Good lord, Macfury. You really need to take a course in how to develop a sense of humour. Whooosh, indeed.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


>


That is just nonsensical. Christian teachings are not pro divorce and definitely not pro porn, despite the mass level of porn watching and marriages that end in divorce. Not sure where the humour is here, it is so odd it makes no sense.


----------



## Beej

A project at Real Clear Politics that tracks fact checking.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/fact_check_review/


> Each week, we review fact-checking outlets that Facebook uses for guidance. Fact checks not relating to civic and public concern are discarded, and the remaining fact checks are broken into the individual claims they assess.


Looks like a convenient place to see what some prominent fact checkers focus on each week.


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> A project at Real Clear Politics that tracks fact checking.
> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/fact_check_review/
> 
> 
> Looks like a convenient place to see what some prominent fact checkers focus on each week.


Bahh, the CBC and New York Times present the facts!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Bahh, the CBC and New York Times present the facts!


And Snopes rubber stamps them...


----------



## FeXL

Curious, that...

Trump Tariffs Tank Asian Equities, Chinese Yuan. China Ready To Negotiate.



> President Donald Trump's latest trade war escalation against China appears to have had an immediate effect on Asian markets and the Chinese Yuan, sending both tumbling early on Monday morning.
> 
> 
> "China's yuan currency fell to 7.1487 to the dollar, its weakest level since early 2008 at the height of the global financial crisis," AFP reported. "On equity markets, Hong Kong led losses, slumping more than three percent, with investors also spooked by fresh violent protests in the city that saw police use water cannon for the first time. Shanghai lost 1.3 percent and Tokyo ended the morning more than two percent off."
> 
> Chinese Vice Premier Liu He indicated early on Monday that the communist nation was willing to negotiate with the U.S. to prevent the trade war from escalating.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Curious, that...
> 
> Trump Tariffs Tank Asian Equities, Chinese Yuan. China Ready To Negotiate.


China should offer something in exchange for Americans exporting their economy to that country...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I’ll just leave this right here...










Create Your Own Caption


----------



## Macfury

What will you leave there?


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> What will you leave there?


Not exactly sure, a freeze frame from a video where Trudeau and Melania kiss on the cheeks in a very European way. Not sure what the humour is in it, other then thinking they could be kissing on the lips which is not all that funny.

That type of stuff really reminds me of slap stick comedy, most of it is horrible and not funny in its absurdity.


----------



## FeXL

Prog heads exploding...

Trump Will Nominate Gene Scalia, Son Of Late Justice, For Labor Secretary



> The White House formally announced President Donald Trump’s intention to nominate Eugene Scalia for labor secretary Tuesday, over one month after the president floated his plans on Twitter.
> 
> Scalia is a Labor Department veteran who practices employment law in the Washington offices of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. He is the son of the Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.


----------



## Beej

Dueling protests break out at "Straight Pride Parade" in Boston

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston...ling-protests-break-out-city-hall-2019-08-31/

The right using progressive language for sh*ts and giggles:


> "We are [disappointed] that the Walsh administration has chosen hate and discrimination," a blog post on the site from April 20 reads. "Therefore, we have decided to launch a campaign to educate the public, politicians, and civil servants about the straight community and the unique problems we face. We have determined that a parade would be the best way to promote our community and its diverse history, culture, and identity. We anticipate that the city will eventually choose to embrace tolerance and inclusivity."


Naturally, instead of ignoring the event, progressives have to protest. They're guaranteed marks for trolls.


----------



## FeXL

OrangeMadBad!!!

Record Number of Americans Working: 157 Million on the Job in the U.S.



> The United States Department of Labor produced a video to highlight the American worker and the accomplishments of the Donald Trump administration to achieve the lowest rate of unemployment and the highest number of workers on the job.
> 
> The agency posted a video on its website revealing that a record 157 million Americans are working and the country has the lowest unemployment rate on Labor Day (3.7 percent) in 1969 and unemployment had been at or below 4 recent for 17 months in a row.
> 
> On Labor Day 2019 there are 7.3 million job openings in the U.S.. according to the agency.


And this little nugget:



> 99 percent of Americans got a bigger raise, the _Wall Street Journal_ reported in July​


But, but, but...Free Enterprise also bad!!!


----------



## FeXL

Heritage Foundation bewildered by Biden claim about Trump tax cuts



> The conservative Heritage Foundation reacted with bewilderment on Wednesday after Joe Biden claimed that the think tank had condemned the 2017 Trump-GOP tax cuts, saying the former vice president's claim had no basis in reality.
> 
> Then, after Biden walked back his comment and instead said the Heritage Foundation has generally sounded the alarm about the national debt, the think tank again called out Biden for falsely implying that it advocated repealing the tax cuts to solve the debt crisis.
> 
> The back-and-forth episode, a sort of "Biden claim whack-a-mole," came as verbal gaffes have continued to rock the candidate's campaign, prompting a top aide to call the blunders "a part of his charm."


Oh, it's charming, all right...


----------



## FeXL

Only a coupla hunnert to go...

Department of Energy Rolls Back Obama-Era Lightbulb Rules



> In a clear victory for consumer choice, the Trump administration's Department of Energy rolled back Obama-era rules that mandated the use of LED light bulbs.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Only a coupla hunnert to go...
> 
> Department of Energy Rolls Back Obama-Era Lightbulb Rules


This has never made any sense at all in Canada. Nine months of the year the heat from incandescent bulbs is not wasted. The other three we don't need lights at all.

Never mind that some LEDs are a proven fire hazard.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> This has never made any sense at all in Canada.


Surely you're not claiming that Prog arguments are s'pose to make even the _tiniest_ modicum of sense...


----------



## CubaMark

A year old, and still relevant:


----------



## Macfury

Trudeau is such an ***hole. Looks like he has his finger on the pulse of politics...in 1998.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trudeau is such an ***hole.


Worth repeating...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Only a coupla hunnert to go...
> 
> Department of Energy Rolls Back Obama-Era Lightbulb Rules


Leaving Canadian Luddites with restricted choices. I tried a few of these replacement style bulbs when they were offered to me for free. Moved them to use in basement rooms when I saw the ugly effect. While businesses like Home Depot and Canadian Tire happily wiped their shelves of inexpensive bulbs, I turned to dollar stores to keep me steadily supplied, since that unholy ban.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Leaving Canadian Luddites with restricted choices. I tried a few of these replacement style bulbs when they were offered to me for free. Moved them to use in basement rooms when I saw the ugly effect. While businesses like Home Depot and Canadian Tire happily wiped their shelves of inexpensive bulbs, I turned to dollar stores to keep me steadily supplied, since that unholy ban.


I do have a couple of 2700K LEDs in utility area potlights. Using them to reduce heat build up. Not unhappy with the colour but no reason to put them anywhere else at $16 a pup.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I do have a couple of 2700K LEDs in utility area potlights. Using them to reduce heat build up. Not unhappy with the colour but no reason to put them anywhere else at $16 a pup.


Choice is good...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Alabama lawn chairs mark themselves safe.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, do you check nothing before you open your gob?



> In a September 6 statement, the NOAA wrote "the information provided by NOAA and the National Hurricane Center to President Trump and the wider public demonstrated that tropical-storm-force winds from Hurricane Dorian could impact Alabama. This is clearly demonstrated in Hurricane Advisories #15 through #41, which can be viewed at the following link."


https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2019/DORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_34_F120




Freddie_Biff said:


> Alabama lawn chairs mark themselves safe.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, do you check nothing before you open your gob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2019/DORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_34_F120




Conveniently retconned. Do you believe everything the POTUS says before you open your festering yap?


----------



## Macfury

That's NOAA's chart material, chum. I don't believe everything a politician says, but
I believe that even NOAA would be incapable of wiping out all traces of readily available and widely disseminated material a few days ago. That's kook conspiracy thinking on your part.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Conveniently retconned. Do you believe everything the POTUS says before you open your festering yap?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's NOAA's chart material, chum. I don't believe everything a politician says, but
> 
> I believe that even NOAA would be incapable of wiping out all traces of readily available and widely disseminated material a few days ago. That's kook conspiracy thinking on your part.




And yet look at the way the original forecast changed to the Trump-approved forecast. Yer bein’ willfully blind, chum.


----------



## Macfury

It never changed. Youre looking at historical data. Later in the forecast period, Alabama is no longer included.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet look at the way the original forecast changed to the Trump-approved forecast. Yer bein’ willfully blind, chum.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It never changed. Youre looking at historical data. Later in the forecast period, Alabama is no longer included.




Believe what you want to believe. Me, I’ll take that sharpie line as proof enough. Apparently you haven’t heard of “sharpiegate.”

Sharpies are also good for fixing crowd size disagreements.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet look at the way the original forecast changed to the Trump-approved forecast. Yer bein’ willfully blind, chum.



If NOAA will retroactively alter its forecasts for political reasons, then I think that is 100% confirmation that they have also been cooking temperature records to reinforce bogus CAGWa claims.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> If NOAA will retroactively alter its forecasts for political reasons, then I think that is 100% confirmation that they have also been cooking temperature records to reinforce bogus CAGWa claims.




Do they also draw on their forecasts with sharpies? You’re kind of missing the point.


----------



## Macfury

Trump presented a roughly accurate version of the original NOAA forecast--with a sharpie. That has you braying like a donkey?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do they also draw on their forecasts with sharpies? You’re kind of missing the point.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> If NOAA will retroactively alter its forecasts for political reasons, then I think that is 100% confirmation that they have also been cooking temperature records to reinforce bogus CAGWa claims.


That sort of logical reasoning would make a prog head explode.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> If NOAA will retroactively alter its forecasts for political reasons, then I think that is 100% confirmation that they have also been cooking temperature records to reinforce bogus CAGWa claims.





Freddie_Biff said:


> Do they also draw on their forecasts with sharpies? You’re kind of missing the point.





Macfury said:


> That sort of logical reasoning would make a prog head explode.


 Only if they possess solid math skills. Otherwise they would fail to see the connection.


----------



## FeXL

6.2 Million Individuals Off Food Stamps Under Trump



> The most recent USDA data shows that 6,268,285 individuals discontinued their participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)— the program in charge of food stamps— since February 2017 when Trump finished his first month as president.


Related:

Record 157,878,000 Employed in August; Record Low Unemployment Rate for Blacks



> The number of people employed in the United States hit a record 157,878,000 in August, the 21st record set under President Donald Trump, according to the employment report released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> That's an increase of 590,000 from the record 157,228,000 employed in July.


More:



> ...For blacks, the unemployment rate dropped to a record low of 5.5 percent last month. And for Hispanics, the unemployment rate was 4.2 percent in August, which ties the record low set earlier this year.


Related, too:

Manufacturing Jobs +3,000 in August; +498,000 Under Trump



> Manufacturing jobs in the United States increased by 3,000 in the month of August and are now up 498,000 since President Donald Trump took office, according to the employment report released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> In July, there were 12,850,000 people employed in the manufacturing sector in the United States. In August that increased to 12,853,000.


But, but, but...SOCIALISM!!! tptptptp


----------



## eMacMan

Long overdue. If the goal is to clear the swamp then it makes no sense to appoint swamp rats to senior cabinet positions and Bolton is the text book definition of a swamp rat.

Took awhile for the news to finally hit the lamestream.

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/arti...nal-security-adviser-John-Bolton-14428103.php



> WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Tuesday abruptly forced out John Bolton, his hawkish national security adviser with whom he had strong disagreements on Iran, Afghanistan and a cascade of other global challenges.
> 
> The sudden shake-up marked the latest departure of a prominent voice of dissent from the president's inner circle, as Trump has grown less accepting of advice contrary to his instincts. It also comes at a trying moment for Trump on the world stage, weeks ahead of the United Nations General Assembly and as the president faces pressing decisions on difficult foreign policy issues.
> ....


----------



## FeXL

Say It Isn’t So, Joe!



> Still protecting Hillary.
> 
> Joe Biden: "Nobody should be in jail for a non-violent crime"
> 
> This is a very radical statement as it implies that everything from drug trafficking to white-collar crimes should not be prosecuted pic.twitter.com/XcEZMYIOdH
> 
> — Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) September 13, 2019​


From the comments:



> Like all statements from the leftist tyrants, it only means what they want when they want and is subject to modification.
> Mis-gender someone by referring to a group as “guys” and you will be accused of “violence”.


Nails it.

"WORDS ARE VIOLENCE!!!" 

Bite me...


----------



## Beej

A very long article on New York schools and parenting culture. Worth reading if only for the horrific anecdotes, or times when you see a bit of NY in your local schools. The level of indoctrination of both parents and kids into the cult is as unreal as the pressure to "succeed".

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/10/when-the-culture-war-comes-for-the-kids/596668/


> Only New York would force me to wake up early one Saturday morning in February, put on my parka and wool hat, and walk half a mile in the predawn darkness to register our son, then just 17 months old, for nursery school. I arrived to find myself, at best, the 30th person in a line that led from the locked front door of the school up the sidewalk. Registration was still two hours off, and places would be awarded on a first-come, first-served basis. At the front of the line, parents were lying in sleeping bags. They had spent the night outside.





> We took the school at face value when it said that this decision was ours to make. My wife attended a meeting for parents, billed as an “education session.” But when she asked a question that showed we hadn’t made up our minds about the tests, another parent quickly tried to set her straight. The question was out of place—no one should want her child to take the tests. The purpose of the meeting wasn’t to provide neutral information. Opting out required an action—parents had to sign and return a letter—and the administration needed to educate new parents about the party line using other parents who had already accepted it, because school employees were forbidden to propagandize.





> Instead of hope pendants around the necks of teachers, in one middle-school hallway a picture was posted of a card that said, “Uh-oh! Your privilege is showing. You’ve received this card because your privilege just allowed you to make a comment that others cannot agree or relate to. Check your privilege.” The card had boxes to be marked, like a scorecard, next to “White,” “Christian,” “Heterosexual,” “Able-bodied,” “Citizen.”





> If there’s a relation between the systems, I came to think, it’s this: Wokeness prettifies the success race, making contestants feel better about the heartless world into which they’re pushing their children. Constantly checking your privilege is one way of not having to give it up.


----------



## FeXL

Art Of The Deal



> ”There is a tiny, tiny notice in the news today that China has backed off on its tariffs on US soy and pork.
> 
> Ya don’t say…​


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> The DoJ’s rejection of a last-ditch appeal by the legal team representing fired FBI Director Andrew McCabe and the recommendation by federal prosecutors that charges actually be filed against the documented liar, leaker, and co-conspirator in the attempted coup against duly elected President Donald Trump puts the deep state in a face-to-face confrontation with a potential legal Armageddon. An indictment will leave McCabe with no excuse for not carrying out his threat to bring them all down with him.​
> *Put that man on suicide watch.*


Bold mine...


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> A very long article on New York schools and parenting culture. Worth reading if only for the horrific anecdotes, or times when you see a bit of NY in your local schools. The level of indoctrination of both parents and kids into the cult is as unreal as the pressure to "succeed".
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/10/when-the-culture-war-comes-for-the-kids/596668/


What made me sick about the article is that the guy can't see that the Stalinesque system he's now confrontng is the result of his own progressive beliefs. This monolithic oppression is the offspring of his own belief system, returning, all growed up, to sucker punch him.


----------



## FeXL

:yikes: Shocka...

Nancy Pelosi Rejects Her Party's Calls For Single-Payer Health Insurance



> Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi dismissed her party's calls to pass Medicare for All on Saturday and instead defended the Affordable Care Act (ACA) as the most politically viable health insurance option for Americans.
> 
> "No, I do not," Pelosi replied during an interview with NPR when she was asked if she agreed with many of the Democratic presidential candidates' demands to implement a single-payer health care system.


Nancy Palsi? Doesn't want to impeach Trump? Doesn't want single pay?

Why, she sounds almost...conservative!


----------



## FeXL

Niiiice!!!

Nancy Pelosi unveils 95% tax proposal on prescription medicines



> Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday released a much-anticipated plan detailing House Democrats’ ideas to change the way people get prescription drugs. At the heart of the plan is a retroactive 95% tax on up to 250 of the most common medicines. The only way out of paying this tax is if the drug becomes subject to strict government price controls and price caps. The House is expected to vote on the plan this fall.
> 
> This “Pelosi Medicine Tax” could apply to the 250 most popular prescription drugs in the country and must apply to at least 25 of them. The tax is not on profits from the sale of the drug, but on the gross receipts from the sale. For example, if a medicine is sold for $100, a tax of $95 is owed, regardless of the cost of selling the drug.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Niiiice!!!
> 
> Nancy Pelosi unveils 95% tax proposal on prescription medicines


Welcome to the gulag.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Niiiice!!!
> 
> Nancy Pelosi unveils 95% tax proposal on prescription medicines


Right Americans are already paying at least 10 and as much as 100 times more compared to Canada and other countries. This is going to help???


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Right Americans are already paying at least 10 and as much as 100 times more compared to Canada and other countries. This is going to help???


Worse. They will be forced to submit to government price controls in order to avoid the tax.


----------



## eMacMan

So the Democrats have their undies in knot over this:
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/pol...-lawmakers-react-grotesque-abuse-14465167.php

But not a peep about Trump actively campaigning heavily for Netanyahu in the recent Israeli election.

First of all I doubt that the puppet president of the Ukraine could dig up any dirt on Biden. He probably lacks a spade. 

Secondly it is hyper-hypocritical to moan about foreign interference in American elections while ignoring far more blatant US and even presidential interference abroad.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> But not a peep about Trump actively campaigning heavily for Netanyahu in the recent Israeli election.


Obama campaigned heavily _against _Netanyahu during his term of office. It's all hype.


----------



## FeXL

Trump: I'm Releasing the Transcript of My Call with the President of Ukraine
Obama Official Jon Favreau: No! Don't Read the Transcript! It's a _Trap!!!_



> Favreau doesn't want the transcript -- he admits it's almost certainly non-objectionable.
> 
> What does he want if not the actual transcript of the supposedly impeachable phone call?
> 
> _The Deep State leaker's partisan *hearsay and interpretation of that hearsay* about the call._
> 
> Have you ever seen such a thing? People actually saying they _don't_ want the evidence, but only the partisan spin about the evidence?


Only in Prog-ville.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

Obama-Era Scheme Illegally Paid $227 Million to States as a Result of Miscalculations



> The federal government incorrectly paid states hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to expand health care coverage before Obamacare's implementation.
> 
> The Obama administration erroneously sent $277 million to state governments that inflated the number of children enrolled in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). The federal government began offering bonuses to state programs to help cover the costs of expanded child coverage shortly after Obama took office in 2009. Over the next four years, the program paid out $645 million in bonuses, 43 percent of which turned out to be "unallowable," according to a new report by the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services.


----------



## Macfury

As long as money was moved out of taxpayer wallets and sent somewhere else, it was prog success!


----------



## FeXL

Impeachment Failure Theater? Democrats Wonder What Nancy Pelosi's Rhetoric Actually Accomplished



> If there's no vote, then there's no impeachment inquiry. You can't even say that this strengthens Jerry Nadler's hand because he is also running a fake impeachment inquiry.
> 
> Congress has great power -- Congressmen, very little. Congress can pass laws; individual congressmen can only vote for passage or against it. Without the imprimatur of the whole of Congress, an individual Congressman's opinion about a law is worthless.
> 
> When Congress takes a vote and decides something as a collective entity, it matters. When this dip**** or that twat just says something at a press conference, that has no more weight than an everyday citizen popping off.


Related:

Trump: Impeachment Is A ‘Positive For Me’



> President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he believes Democratic attempts to impeach him will be a positive for him in the upcoming 2020 presidential election.


Agreed.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Impeachment Failure Theater? Democrats Wonder What Nancy Pelosi's Rhetoric Actually Accomplished
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> Trump: Impeachment Is A ‘Positive For Me’
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.


Amazing to see this fiasco being launched. Listen to their speeches. They don't even now what they're supposed to be impeaching him for. "We've got to get to the bottom of... something... to save our democracy." JFK would be horrified to see the Clown Party that replaced the Democrats one night.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Trump: I'm Releasing the Transcript of My Call with the President of Ukraine
> Obama Official Jon Favreau: No! Don't Read the Transcript! It's a _Trap!!!_
> 
> Only in Prog-ville.


Awww... that's cute. You get out there, fella, and keep on spinning. Maybe someday you'll get lucky. Just keep at it, perseverance is what matters, not right or wrong, not logical or fantastic imagination.... :lmao:

Here's what Favreau actually said:

_This is a trap. I would bet that Trump is focusing on the transcript because he knows it isn’t great, but not nearly as incriminating as the entire whistleblower complaint.

We need the full whistleblower complaint ASAP and Democrats should accept nothing less._​
*On the same topic:*

*White House releases redacted transcript of Trump's Ukraine phone call about Joe Biden*

The White House has released a memorandum of Donald Trump’s phone call with the president of Ukraine that has sparked an official impeachment inquiry after *he vowed just yesterday to release a “fully declassified and unredacted transcript”* of the controversial call.

The five-page document was made on the day of the 25 July phone call by notetakers in the White House Situation Room as the president spoke to Volodymyr Zelensky from his residence, according to the memorandum.

It begins with Mr Trump congratulating the new Ukrainian president on his election victory, before reminding Mr Zelensky the US spends “a lot of effort and a lot of time” aiding his country. 

Prior to the memorandum's release it was reported Mr Trump ordered his staff to withhold $400m (£323.7m) in aid to Ukraine just days before the phone call. He spoke with Mr Zelensky the day after former Special Counsel Robert Mueller spoke in public testimony about his report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. 

“I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine,” Mr Trump said on the phone call, according to the memorandum. “We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it’s something that should really ask them about.”

“A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it’s something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine,” he continued. “I wouldn’t say that it’s reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.”

Mr Trump then asks Mr Zelensky “to do us a favour”. 

He begins by immediately asking for an investigation surrounding the origins of the Russia investigation that clouded the first years of his presidency, commenting on the former special counsel’s “incompetent performance” the day prior. 

“Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible,” he said.

(The Independent UK)​


----------



## Macfury

Even progs like you deserve a faint hope clause, CM!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

You, lecturing anybody about perseverance all the while shouting from the kook fringe that those against Brexit should just keep hosting referendums until they get the result they want.

You, lecturing anybody about being right or wrong when you've been wrong on nearly every topic you've posted about on these boards.

You, lecturing anybody about logic vs fantasy when your own history on these boards throws into sharp relief the complete absence of the former and an overwhelming abundance of the latter.

HA!!!

BTW, how's the search for those alternative energy fueled mills & foundries coming along?

Not so much?

Yet one more thing you were wrong about...



CubaMark said:


> Just keep at it, perseverance is what matters, not right or wrong, not logical or fantastic imagination....


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Yet one more thing you were wrong about...


Now we have the Ukraine president weighing in on Trump's side. The Inspector General says the whistleblower was a Hillary supporter who did not hear the conversation. Better and better...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Now we have the Ukraine president weighing in on Trump's side.


Conspiracy!!!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Conspiracy!!!


*U.S. House intelligence panel chair Schiff says whistleblower complaint credible, disturbing*

ReutersSeptember 25, 2019
5:46 PM EDT

WASHINGTON — U.S. House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff said on Wednesday after viewing a whistleblower complaint concerning President Donald Trump that the allegations were “deeply disturbing” and “very credible.”

“I found the allegations deeply disturbing. I also found them very credible,” Schiff told reporters.

“I want to thank the whistleblower for coming forward. I think what this courageous individual has done has exposed serious wrongdoing,” he said. (Reporting by David Morgan; Writing by Eric Beech; Editing by Mohammad Zargham)
(National Post)​


----------



## Macfury

Yup, Adam Schiff. The partisan Democrat hack who has been calling for Trump's impeachment on Day One. The same one caught in a laughable sting by comedians where he was trying to offer cash to a fake Russian operative in exchange for naked pictures of Trump. That Adam Schiff.

And the "credible" Whistleblower who did not happen to have first hand knowledege of the call? 


> "I was not a witness to most of the events described... However, I found my colleagues' accounts of these events to be credible..."


_That_ whistleblower!

Meanwhile, I recall your dead silence when Biden bragged on camera about withholding a large sum of federal money from Ukraine unless the prosecutor pursuing his son was fired:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

As MF notes, anybody who would cite Adam $h!t For Brains as a paragon of veracity & virtue has truly let the last straw slip through his hands...



CubaMark said:


> ...Adam Schiff...


----------



## FeXL

A presidential naming I can get behind.

Landfill Road with 'Putrid Stench' to Be Named After Barack Obama



> While I have been highly critical of recent efforts to rename schools and highways after Barack Obama, finally there is one I can get behind.
> 
> Last week in the state of California, the Milpitas City Council voted 3-2 to rename Dixon Landing Road to Barack Obama Boulevard. As much I think the "Put-Obama’s-Name-On-Things" movement is inappropriate because of his terrible record, this latest effort actually is very fitting. Why? Because the road in question leads to the Newby Island Landfill, a recycling and composting plant notorious for causing a "putrid stench" in the area. For decades residents driving on that stretch of road have complained about the odors—similar to the way patriots complained about poor economic growth, endless scandals, deteriorating race relations, and disastrous foreign policy during the Obama years.


Appropriate for the president who made Jimmy Carter look great...


----------



## FeXL

Good!

State of Delusion: Democrats Privately Panic Following Transcript, Impeachment Fallout



> Democrats and Republicans demonstrated starkly different reactions following the release of the unredacted transcript of President Trump’s conversation with the president of Ukraine.
> 
> Many congressional Democrats publicly declared it the “smoking gun,” while Republicans dismissed their cries by noting the absence of quid pro quo or generally lawless behavior.
> 
> However, Democrats are striking a drastically different tone privately, as several reports indicate.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> A presidential naming I can get behind.


Stories such as this one have often been exposed as urban legends. But I followed this one through several layers — it seems real!


----------



## FeXL

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> As MF notes, anybody who would cite Adam $h!t For Brains as a paragon of veracity & virtue has truly let the last straw slip through his hands...


One more reason why innocent, objective, non-partisan Schiff may be involved:

Suspicions Grow That "Whistleblower Complaint" Is a Put-Up Job Orchestrated by Adam Schiff



> Adam Schiff was tweeting out allegations from the rumor-mongering anti-Trump leaker's complaint while claiming that he didn't have access to the complaint.
> 
> The complaint was addressed to Schiff on August 12, 2019. This tweet is from August 28, 2019. https://t.co/O9eSlRl9A8
> — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) September 26, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And which media propagandist did Schiff use as a prop to hide the true source of his allegations? One of Fusion GPS's favorite stenographers of discredited Steele-esque innuendo: Natasha Bertrand.
> 
> The whole thing has been a Fusion GPS-style info op from the very beginning.
> 
> Schiff and his allies even stovepiped information in the same manner as during the collusion hoax: they leak claims to compliant media, media runs with claims, then leakers point to the media reports they seeded as proof of their allegations. They started back in May.
> 
> And surprise! The anti-Trump leaker cited as proof of corruption in his complaint the very same articles that Schiff and his allies quite obviously seeded to form the narrative they desired.
> 
> This raises the troubling question of whether Schiff orchestrated the complaint.
> 
> This pattern of behavior from Schiff, his "whistleblower," and their media allies makes it all the more necessary for the anti-Trump complainant to publicly testify under oath and answer questions about his team's interactions w/ media and Democrat lawmakers about his complaint.
> 
> And lest anyone forget, Adam Schiff and Fusion GPS head Glenn Simpson have a long history of working together in this fashion. Recall that Schiff and Simpson, who perjured himself in congressional testimony, secretly met together in Aspen.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Curiouser & curiouser...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Stories such as this one have often been exposed as urban legends. But I followed this one through several layers — it seems real!


And, I might add, very apropos... 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> One more reason why innocent, objective, non-partisan Schiff may be involved:
> 
> Suspicions Grow That "Whistleblower Complaint" Is a Put-Up Job Orchestrated by Adam Schiff
> 
> 
> 
> Curiouser & curiouser...


The "Whistleblower" is suddenly represented by the lawyer for Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Macfury

Schiff colluding with "Russians" to find dirt on Trump:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Further on those damn Russkies, er, Ukes, er, Trump, er PROGS!!! Yeah, that's it!

John Solomon: I Have a Trove of 400+ Documents From the US State Department and the Ukraine Government Proving That Joe Biden's/The DNC Media's Cover Story Is a Complete Lie



> Julie Kelly digested Solomon's report:
> 
> John Solomon reporting tonight he has 400+ pages of docs that will prove the Ukrainian probe into Hunter Biden was ongoing when Joe Biden called for the firing of Shokin and that the new prosecutor disputed his predecessor was somehow corrupt.​
> Below, Solomon talks about this cache of documents.
> 
> He says the media is easily spun by Biden's people on this issue because they, get this, haven't bothered doing the most minimal work of actually reading the primary documents available to them.
> 
> Gee that doesn't sound like the hard-workin', always readin', never-tweetin' media I know.


More:



> Solomon also talks about the Democrats pressuring of Ukraine to interfere in the 2016 election (on Hillary Clinton's side, of course).


But, but, but...OrangeManBaaaad!!!


----------



## FeXL

Further on Schiff-for-Brains.

Rep. Schiff Fabricates What Trump Said In Ukraine Telephone Call Transcript



> California Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff read a portion of a transcript of a telephone conversation between President Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart Thursday before the House Intelligence Committee — but the congressman largely fabricated the president’s words.


Schiff: ‘Everyone Understood’ ‘I Was Mocking the President’s Conduct’ in My Opening



> On Thursday’s broadcast of CNN’s “Situation Room,” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) stated that he didn’t regret his “parody” of the Trump-Ukraine call and argued that everyone understood “that I was mocking the president’s conduct.”


Yeah, not so much...

No wonder The Bigot fawned over him: His kinda guy!

Related:

New York Times, Washington Post Front Pages Deceptively Slice Ukraine Call Transcript To Implicate Trump



> The New York Times and the Washington Post selectively cut up the transcript of a July phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on the newspapers’ front pages to fit each paper’s misleading headline accusing Trump of requesting a favor that he never asked.
> 
> “Trump offered Justice’s aid for a probe of Biden,” reads the Washington Post front page.
> 
> “Trump asked for ‘favor in call, memo shows,” blares The New York Times.
> 
> *Each paper prominently displays selectively edited passages of the transcript between the two leaders below the primary headlines, each omitting key text that shows each statement to be demonstrably false.*


Bold mine.

Shocka...


----------



## FeXL

Walls Are Closing In: Trump At 53% Approval, Highest in Five Months



> End of the line. This train is derailing.
> 
> President Donald Trump's approval rating has reached 53 percent--the highest in the last five months, according to a Rasmussen Poll on Sept 24.
> 
> According to the new polling data, 53 percent of likely voters approve of the job Trump is doing, while 45 percent disapprove. The last time Trump received a 53 percent approval on the same polling firm was on April 9.​


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

_Keep on spinning, guys... it's a lovely show....
_
*White House admits Trump's Ukraine phone call record was moved to secret server*

The White House has admitted moving details of a telephone call between Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart to a classified server, according to CNN.

The admission appears to back up one of the claims made by a whistleblower about efforts to conceal evidence of the controversial call, which has led to an impeachment investigation against the president.

(Independent UK)​


----------



## Macfury

And moving it to a classified server violates which law? Your TDS is showing.


----------



## Macfury

...and still no comment from CM regarding the admission by Biden that he used government money to get a prosecutor fired so he wouldn't go after his son.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And moving it to a classified server violates which law?


Better'n putting classified information on a home-rolled server in yer bathroom, like Bill's Wife did. He was curiously silent on that...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Better'n putting classified information on a home-rolled server in yer bathroom, like Bill's Wife did. He was curiously silent on that...


He'll be gone for awhile so he can ignore these points that completely gut his feeble arguments.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ...and still no comment from CM regarding the admission by Biden that he used government money to get a prosecutor fired so he wouldn't go after his son.


Charge him! Fire him! Take all of these old bastards down. 

But Biden isn't the President of the United States.

If this was Obama, you two would be screaming for his hide from the top of Trump Tower :lmao:

*Here is the full, unclassified whistleblower complaint detailing Donald Trump's illegal behavior* (DailyKOS)


----------



## Macfury

Obviously you have no idea of what we're talking about, Biden directly implicated Obama in the decision while on camera.



CubaMark said:


> Charge him! Fire him! Take all of these old bastards down.
> 
> But Biden isn't the President of the United States.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Obviously you have no idea of what we're talking about, Biden directly implicated Obama in the decision while on camera.


Great! Charge Obama too. Lock 'em all up.

How does this detract from the story at hand, that The Imperios Cheeto asked a foreign government to investigate a political opponent, regardless of any existing investigation?


----------



## Macfury

He asked him to resume the investigation.


----------



## FeXL

I wish Chardonnay Sally would climb into a bottle & just stay there...

Hillary Clinton: Trump Has a "Guilty Conscience" Over Beating Me in 2016 and That's Why He's "Obsessed With Me"



> But she is acting like a fat, drunken Captain Ahab.
> 
> Two-time failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said President Donald Trump "knows he's an illegitimate president" in an interview in which she called for him to be impeached and removed from office.
> 
> CBS Sunday Morning‘s Jane Pauley asked why no Democratic candidates want to talk about Clinton, the party's previous nominee, while Trump likes to bring her up on Twitter and in speeches. Clinton said it's all a product of Trump's guilty conscience about 2016.
> 
> "I know that he knows that this wasn't on the level. I don't know we'll ever know everything that happened, but clearly we know a lot and are learning more every day, and history will probably sort it all out," she said. "So of course he's obsessed with me. And I believe that it's a guilty conscience, in so much as he has a conscience."​


Ah, yes. The ol' Winner's Guilty Conscience defence...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> I wish Chardonnay Sally would climb into a bottle & just stay there...
> 
> Hillary Clinton: Trump Has a "Guilty Conscience" Over Beating Me in 2016 and That's Why He's "Obsessed With Me"
> 
> Ah, yes. The ol' Winner's Guilty Conscience defence...


One way to interpolate that is that DT was planted as the Rebloodlican candidate to help assure a Hilliary win. The he reneged on his bargain and won the thing.

Worse however is that Hilliary seems anxious to go for the third time lucky run.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



^^^^ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Beej

A couple recent NY Times headlines, written to different standards.

First, an archive because the headline has been updated with the latest news.

Black Virginia Girl Says White Classmates Cut Her Dreadlocks on Playground
Black Virginia Girl Says White Classmates Cut Her Dreadlocks on Playground - The New York Times

A few days later...

Virginia Girl Recants Story of Boys Cutting Off Her Dreadlocks
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/dreadlocks-cut-girl-virginia-school.html


> It was a story bound to unleash a storm of news coverage: A black 12-year-old girl reported that three white boys had pinned her down in a school playground and cut off her dreadlocks.


The NY Times playing clickbait headline games with racial conflict in the U.S. Is that the paper of record or a Buzzfeed subsidiary?


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Worse however is that Hilliary seems anxious to go for the third time lucky run.


Oh please, oh please, oh please...


----------



## Macfury

She hasn't started impeaching anyone. ^^^^ 



Freddie_Biff said:


> ^^^^
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

*Bernie Sanders hospitalized with chest pain, campaign events canceled*

Sen. Bernie Sanders, 78, was hospitalized in Las Vegas, Nevada.

"During a campaign event yesterday evening, Sen. Sanders experienced some chest discomfort. Following medical evaluation and testing he was found to have a blockage in one artery and two stents were successfully inserted," said Sanders’ senior adviser Jeff Weaver on Wednesday in a statement.

"Sen. Sanders is conversing and in good spirits. He will be resting up over the next few days," Weaver said. "We are canceling his events and appearances until further notice, and we will continue to provide appropriate updates."

[...]

He is one of three septuagenarians in the Democratic primary, and the oldest. Former Vice President Joe Biden is 76. Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren is 70.

President Donald Trump, who was the oldest elected president, is 73. If elected, Sanders would be the oldest president to serve.

Sanders' last public appearance was at the Las Vegas shooting memorial on Tuesday night. Earlier this week, he was in New Hampshire where he held seven back-to-back events.

(ABC News)​


----------



## Macfury

Why is this story important to you, CM? Because Sanders is a socialist?



CubaMark said:


> *Sen. Bernie Sanders, 78, was hospitalized in Las Vegas, Nevada.*


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Why is this story important to you, CM? Because Sanders is a socialist?


Sanders probably read his falling ratings and had an MI...

It also slays me that the party who hates OWG's has, as one of our children notes, a "crap-ton" of them at the helm.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Sanders probably read his falling ratings and had an MI...
> 
> It also slays me that the party who hates OWG's has, as one of our children notes, a "crap-ton" of them at the helm.


"Beto" is breathing a prayer of thanks to Gaia that he might pick up a smattering of support...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why is this story important to you, CM? Because Sanders is a socialist?


Well, this is the American Political Thread. What do you want me to post in here, _new techniques in embroidery?_ :lmao:

As one of the front-runners, this is enormously detrimental to Sanders' campaign. His opponents can now make the case that his age and health may make him incapable of fulfilling at least one term in office, and/or enduring the stress that (usually) results from occupying the White House.


----------



## Macfury

I can see it would be important to you if you saw Sanders' as a front-runner when he is running a distant third in national polls.



CubaMark said:


> As one of the front-runners, this is enormously detrimental to Sanders' campaign. His opponents can now make the case that his age and health may make him incapable of fulfilling at least one term in office, and/or enduring the stress that (usually) results from occupying the White House.


----------



## FeXL

Further on The Bigot's hero, honest, non-partisan, Schiff-for-Brains...

Surprise! The Whistleblower Sent His Complaint to Adam Schiff First, Who Then Gave Him "Advice"



> A source tells me that this probably means the whistleblower is not a whistleblower, but just a leaker. To be a whistleblower, you have to go through prescribed steps.
> 
> Running to the hyperpartisan Adam Schiff to preview your info op isn't one of those steps.


Related:

Adam Schiff Lied Directly to the American Public and To Sam Stein's Face, But Sam Stein Says, It's Okay, Please Continue Believing My Democrat Ally Adam Schiff Anyway Or Else You're a Political "Hack"



> Schiff was earlier asked if he or his staff and office had spoken to the whistleblower -- which we now know happened -- and he said no, "we" did not speak to him.
> 
> That was, and is, a lie, we now know.


Related. too:

State Department IG Turns Over "Urgent" Documents; They Turn Out to be Documents About Democrat Contacts With Ukraine



> lolgf.
> 
> The left made a huge deal about this "urgent" briefing.
> 
> I think this packet of documents -- many from John Solomon -- were supposed to prove that nasty right-wing Republicans were engaging in Sedition by Journalism by pointing out Democrat dealings with the Urkaine.
> 
> ...
> 
> The briefing was a huge blow to Democrats, who were expecting bombshell information regarding the Trump administration’s contact with Ukraine and investigations into former Vice President Joe Biden. In fact, several news outlets reported earlier in the day that the briefing would be about State Department leadership retaliating against career employees who wanted to cooperate with the Democrats' investigation into Trump.​


More:



> Update: Democrats had a lot of hopes pinned on State Department official Kurt Volker's testimony.
> 
> Another huge bust.


----------



## Macfury

Schiff wrote the whistleblower's report, no doubt.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Schiff wrote the whistleblower's report, no doubt.


Certainly appears that way.


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry, I must have missed something. Precisely why the hell would the _Dept of Energy_ have an inventory of _fentanyl_ on hand?

DOE’s Los Alamos Facility Lost Track Of Enough Fentanyl To Kill More Than 1,750 People, Report Shows



> The Department of Energy’s National Laboratory in New Mexico misplaced or lost track of enough fentanyl four years ago to kill more than 1,000 people, according to a report in September from the DOE’s Inspector General.
> 
> DOE’s facility obtained 50 grams of fentanyl on Feb. 2, 2015, the report noted before stating that the amount was not added to the facility’s database for chemicals, ChemDB, until one week before the IG’s inspection in Feb. 6, 2017. The entry shows 5 grams of the deadly substance on hand and did not keep a record of the original 50 grams.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry, I must have missed something. Precisely why the hell would the _Dept of Energy_ have an inventory of _fentanyl_ on hand?
> 
> DOE’s Los Alamos Facility Lost Track Of Enough Fentanyl To Kill More Than 1,750 People, Report Shows


I was curious enough to dig deeper:



> The Department of Energy’s Los Alamos National Laboratory (Los Alamos) is part of the National Nuclear Security Administration’s nuclear security enterprise. The primary mission at Los Alamos is to solve national security challenges through scientific excellence. Los Alamos executes work in all of the Department’s missions: national security, science, energy, and environmental management, as well as research and development for agencies such as the Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community. As part of its work, Los Alamos conducts research involving controlled substances.


I think they need to do more research on booze and prostitution as it affects national security as well.


----------



## Macfury

There were some notions that Rod Rosenstein was a subervsive "White Hat" in the Trump administration. Forget about that!



> (Washington, DC) Judicial Watch released 145 pages of Rod Rosenstein’s communications that include a one-line email from Rod Rosenstein to Robert Mueller stating, “The boss and his staff do not know about our discussions” and “off the record” emails with major media outlets around the date of Mueller’s appointment.
> 
> Judicial Watch filed the lawsuit after the DOJ failed to respond to a September 21, 2018, Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:19-cv-00481)). Judicial Watch seeks:
> 
> Any and all e-mails, text messages, or other records of communication addressed to or received by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein between May 8, 2017, and May 22, 2017.
> 
> The time period referred to in this suit is critical. On May 8, 2017, Rosenstein wrote a memo to President Trump recommending that FBI Director James Comey be fired. The next day, President Trump fired Comey. Just three days later, on May 12, Rosenstein sent an email assuring Robert Mueller that “The boss and his staff do not know about our discussions.”
> 
> In a May 16, 2017 email, sent the day before Mueller’s appointment, Rosenstein emailed former Bush administration Deputy Attorney General and current Kirkland & Ellis Partner, Mark Filip stating, “I am with Mueller. He shares my views. Duty Calls. Sometimes the moment chooses us.”
> 
> And on May 17 Rosenstein appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller to investigate Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.
> 
> Also, during the same time period, between May 8 and May 17, Rosenstein met with then-acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe and other senior Justice Department FBI officials to discuss wearing a wire and invoking the 25th Amendment to remove President Trump.
> 
> The documents also show that, again during the same time period, Rod Rosenstein was in direct communication with reporters from 60 Minutes, The New York Times and The Washington Post. In an email exchange dated May 2017, Rosenstein communicated with New York Times reporter Rebecca Ruiz to provide background for this article about himself. Ruiz emailed Rosenstein a draft of the article, and he responded with off-the-record comments and clarifications.
> 
> In an email exchange on May 17, 2017, the day of Mueller’s appointment, Rosenstein exchanged emails with 60 Minutes producer Katherine Davis in which he answered off-the-record questions about Mueller’s scope of authority and chain of command:
> 
> Rosenstein: “Off the record: This special counsel is a DOJ employee. His status is similar to a US Attorney.”
> 
> Davis: “Good call on Mueller. Although I obviously thought you’d be great at leading the investigation too.”
> 
> On May 17, 2017, in an email exchange with Washington Post journalist Sari Horwitz and the subject line “Special Counsel” Rosenstein and Horwitz exchanged:
> 
> Rosenstein: “At some point, I owe you a long story. But this is not the right time for me to talk to anybody.”
> 
> Horwitz: “Now, I see why you couldn’t talk today! Obviously, we’re writing a big story about this. Is there any chance I could talk to you on background about your decision?”
> 
> “These astonishing emails further confirm the corruption behind Rosenstein’s appointment of Robert Mueller,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “The emails also show a shockingly cozy relationship between Mr. Rosenstein and anti-Trump media reporters.”


https://www.judicialwatch.org/press...-boss-doesnt-know-about-their-communications/


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I think they need to do more research on booze and prostitution as it affects national security as well.


As does basic stupidity...


----------



## eMacMan

Interesting that the deep state which attempts to make examples of Assange, Snowdon and Manning, should be so protective of these latest whistle blowers. Not even revealing their names. Something is very rotten in the (un)state of DC.

https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/elect...er-2/wcm/9f54365b-5b4d-42ad-b6f8-3203b9fa5bbc

Interesting also that there is no outrage at the blatant graft of Hunter Biden or the similar corruption shown by his daddy. All that outrage is reserved for the one who has revealed it.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Interesting also that there is no outrage at the blatant graft of Hunter Biden or the similar corruption shown by his daddy. All that outrage is reserved for the one who has revealed it.


Joe Biden is on video bragging about withholding funds to Ukraine unless they fire the prosecutor looking into the company for which Hunter Biden sat on the board of directors. The MSM keeps saying there is no indication that Joe was involved in anything of the sort.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Joe Biden is on video bragging about withholding funds to Ukraine unless they fire the prosecutor looking into the company for which Hunter Biden sat on the board of directors. The MSM keeps saying there is no indication that Joe was involved in anything of the sort.



I guess as long as you can make yourself believe the Lamestream all is well. Eventually this part will seep through, probably right after the DNC engineers the Biden nomination. Could help assure the re-election of DT.

Especially true if the Democrypts pursue the impeachment crap. I am absolutely convinced that trying to impeach Clinton cost the Republirats the White House in 1996. Simply put even if Americans despise the current pres. they hate to see the deep state attempting to short circuit the electoral process.


----------



## FeXL

But OrangeManBad!!!

158,269,000: Record Number of Employed in September; 3.5% Unemployment Rate Best Since 1969



> The work week is ending with some good news for President Donald Trump, as more records were smashed in Friday's report on September unemployment.
> 
> For the 22nd time since Donald Trump took office, the number of employed Americans reached a record high last month, climbing 319,000 from August's record 157,878,000 to 158,269,000. At the same time, the number of unemployed Americans set a Trump-era low at 5,769,000.
> 
> Those two strong numbers pushed the nation's unemployment rate to 3.5 percent in September -- down two-tenths of a point from last month, and the lowest rate since December 1969.
> 
> President Trump hailed the good news on Twitter, with a twist:
> 
> "Breaking News," Trump wrote. "Unemployment Rate, at 3.5%, drops to a 50 YEAR LOW. *Wow America, lets impeach your President* (even though he did nothing wrong!)."


Bold mine.

Yeppers.


----------



## FeXL

Womp Womp: Document Shows That Ukraine Had Already Re-opened Probe Into Hunter Biden's Firm _Months Before_ the Trump Phone Call
Plus: Ukrainian Prosecutor On Tape Saying He "Helped" Hillary Clinton's Campaign 



> I sense a Logan Act violation here in John Solomon's illegal reporting of facts that Jake Tapper doesn't like.
> 
> A newly unearthed document shows that Ukrainian officials had opened a new probe into the firm linked to Hunter Biden months before President Trump's phone call with that country's leader, Fox News contributor John Solomon reported late Tuesday.
> 
> Solomon said Tuesday on "Hannity" that the U.S. government knew Ukraine was planning to look again into activities at Burisma Holdings, an energy company that employed then-Vice President Joe Biden's son as a member of its board of directors, early this year. The report is noteworthy because President Trump has been accused by Democrats of threatening in July to withhold foreign aid to Ukraine unless its new president pursued an investigation into the company and the younger Biden's role there.
> 
> "The U.S. government had open-source intelligence and was aware as early as February of 2019 that the Ukrainian government was planning to reopen the Burisma investigation," he claimed. "This is long before the president ever imagined having a call with President Zelensky," he added, noting Petro Poroshenko was still Ukraine's president at that time.​
> By the way: If you haven't seen it (you probably have, I'm very late to this), you absolutely must watch this conversation with a former Ukrainian prosecutor saying that he and his people helped Hillary, and provided Manafort's "black accounting' records to them.


----------



## FeXL

Defense Employee Arrested for Leaking National Security Secrets to Reporter;
Twitter Profile Strongly Suggests a Liberal NeverTrumper and Member of #TheResistance



> So many selfless patriots!
> 
> Thanks to commenters and some anonymous tipsters for this post.
> 
> The Department of Justice on Wednesday announced the arrest of a Defense Intelligence Agency official for allegedly leaking classified information to journalists, including one with whom he was apparently in a relationship. Law enforcement officials arrested 30-year-old Henry Kyle Frese of Virginia and charged him with two counts of willful transmission of national defense information. If convicted, he faces a maximum of 20 years in prison.
> 
> According to charging documents filed with a federal court in Virginia, the information that Frese allegedly leaked involved a foreign country's weapons system. The Justice Department would not identify the journalists, the outlets they worked for or the country that the leaked documents concerned.
> 
> The filings detail the FBI's surveillance of Frese and how they captured phone calls and direct messages on Twitter between him and the two journalists, who apparently both covered national security.​
> One of the reporters he leaked to is Amanda Macias.
> 
> Can confirm based on public records and information contained in the court records: The journalist defense employee Henry K. Frese is accused of leaking classified information to is @amanda_m_macias, a CNBC national security reporter. The affiliated news organization is NBC News. https://t.co/UdWYab0VlD
> — Matthew Keys (@MatthewKeysLive) October 9, 2019​


----------



## FeXL

Wait. Wha...? Thought that was the Muslims... 

Teacher Allegedly Displays Graphic Saying Confederate Flag Means ‘You Intend To Marry Your Sister’



> A Georgia teacher allegedly showed a Powerpoint image of a Confederate flag to the teacher’s classroom accompanied by a caption reading, “A sticker you put on the back of your pickup truck to announce that you intend to marry your sister. Think of it like a white trash ‘Save the Date’ card.”


----------



## FeXL

Administration Officials: Robert Mueller Lied Under Oath to Congress; Despite His Denials, He _Was_ Interviewing for FBI Job, and Was Turned Down



> Such straight arrow, so many integrity.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE – Multiple administration officials tell Fox News that when Robert Mueller met with President Trump in May of 2017, Mueller was indeed pursuing the open post as the director of the FBI – something the former Russia probe special counsel denied under oath during congressional testimony this summer.
> 
> These officials also told Fox News government documents showed Mueller was pursuing the job as a candidate himself.
> 
> It came as emails released this month through a Freedom of Information Act request by the conservative group Judicial Watch seemed to indicate Mueller knew there was a real possibility he could be named special counsel if he wasn't chosen as the next FBI director.​


----------



## FeXL

EXCLUSIVE: Report Shows FBI’s Top Press Official During Clinton And Trump Probes Accepted Baseball Tix From CNN Reporter



> * An FBI senior official who resigned under mysterious circumstances last year accepted baseball game tickets from a CNN reporter in 2016 and lied about it to investigators, according to a report obtained exclusively by the Daily Caller News Foundation.
> * Michael Kortan accepted the tickets from the CNN journalist to at least two games, in May 2016 and September 2016.
> * Kortan displayed a “lack of candor” during multiple interviews about the tickets. He was prohibited under FBI policy from accepting gifts from reporters who cover the bureau.
> * He also accepted tickets from a New York Times reporter.


----------



## FeXL

Bring it.

Hillary Clinton: "Maybe There Does Need to be a Rematch. I Mean Obviously I Can Beat Him Again."



> Again?
> 
> Oh right, you're a chronic drunk and also a serial perjurer with some sort of degenerative mental condition who has entered a fugue state of delusion.
> 
> *You really "won," but the Russians changed the vote totals and made it look like you lost.*
> 
> Yes, definitely -- run again.
> 
> You have _no idea_ how much we'd love that.


Bold mine.

I'm sure the Ukes had something to do with that, too...


----------



## FeXL

FREE DAVID BERKOWITZ 



> ...but save his cell for Donald Trump...
> 
> Socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) said this week that it was time for the United States to have a serious conversation about *“decarceration” and “prison abolition in this country.”*​
> FROM THE COMMENTS:
> 
> "Keep talkin', kid... *SELL that Socialism thing.*"


Links' bold.

Related:

Alexandria Donkey-Chompers: We Have to Abolish Prisons, You Guys, Because of Slavery or Something



> See below.
> 
> Tucker Carlson points out that this is not merely Donkey-Chompers' position, over on the fringe. He notes that Democrat presidential candidates just can't stop talking about decriminalizing drug crimes and all crimes related to illegal border crossing.
> 
> Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and Cory Booker and Beto O'Rouke even wants to expunge the records of those previously convicted of drug crimes -- retroactive decriminalization, in other words.
> 
> Mass incarceration is our American reality. It is a system whose logic evolved from the same lineage as Jim Crow, American apartheid, & slavery.
> 
> To end it, we have to change.
> 
> That means we need to have a real conversation about decarceration & prison abolition in this country. https://t.co/9E9NTAmBNi
> — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) October 7, 2019​


----------



## eMacMan

Oops!!!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50003323




> Speaking to reporters at a news conference in Kiev on Thursday, Mr Zelensky said of his 25 July call with Mr Trump: "There was no blackmail. It was not the subject of our conversation."
> 
> He said the purpose of the conversation was to arrange a meeting with Trump, and there were no "conditions" from the American side.


So essentially what the democrypts have accomplished is to shine a light on Joe Biden bribing the chocolate porkchop to not investigate Hunter Biden's dealings n Ukraine.

As bad a president as Trump may be, the actions of the Democrypts clearly indicate that they have no viable candidate to unseat him.


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XGj478W8Fk[/ame]


----------



## SINC

CubaMark said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XGj478W8Fk


Kinda hard to judge a post like this:


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> Kinda hard to judge a post like this:


Sorry about that - I use a VPN to get past geo-restrictions. It's an SNL video from the weekend, covering Trump, Guliani, and the two russian bagmen caught at the Dulles International Airport. Just as when Jon Stewart was on the air, comedians sometimes give us the best news coverage....


----------



## Macfury

Deep State is hard at work with selective prosecution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Separating the froot loop progs from the rest of society was bound to happen, regardless.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I think we have a new contender for the title “bigot”!


----------



## Macfury

Since you threw your hat into the ring, you can have my vote! But you'll have some tough competition against CM.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I think we have a new contender for the title “bigot”!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think we have a new contender for the title “bigot”!





Macfury said:


> Since you threw your hat into the ring, you can have my vote! But you'll have some tough competition against CM.


Sure I'll cast my vote Freddie's way, but I wonder why he thinks the American political thread is an appropriate place to campaign? Actually I wonder why he wants to lay claim to the title at all?

Will try to segue back to some resemblance of the thread topic. It's a given that the WashPo does have some heavy duty issues with accurate reporting but if they fall within either a Trump tweet or a Hiliary claim of accuracy on this one, it is still totally disgusting. 
https://calgaryherald.com/news/nati...-u-s/wcm/4be14692-3df1-407a-8ce3-a40834a9a5ef


----------



## CubaMark

More: Independent UK


----------



## Macfury

And CM once again runs a meme without checking sources. Waybourn was protesting a court ruling affecting illegal immigrants _charged with driving under the influence_. A good chance they might be drunks.

His son is estranged from the family and Waybourn has no problem with his being charged.

A flaccid meme once you actually investigate.


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Bro-Fo s'more!

Omar Funnels 30 Percent of Campaign Cash to Alleged Boyfriend’s Firm



> Approximately 30 percent of the money doled out by the campaign of Rep. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) in the third quarter went to digital fundraising, communications, and advertising services provided by the E Street Group, a firm run by her alleged boyfriend.
> 
> Omar's campaign committee, which raised a total of $1,084,098.84 in the third quarter, spent $493,389.80 during this time. The E Street Group, a firm run by political consultant Tim Mynett, Omar's alleged lover, received more money from the campaign than any other vendor.
> 
> The Omar campaign paid the E Street Group $149,812.64 between July 1 and Sept. 30, its filings show. That accounts for around 30 percent of Omar's total campaign disbursements over the same period. Her campaign has over $1.5 million cash on hand.


I wonder how her husband/brother feels about that...


----------



## FeXL

Related to the above, if for no other reason than the hilarious snark. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Ilhan "Omar" (Actually Nur Said) Funnels 30% of All Campaign Money to Her ****** Bootycall's Firm



> This guy must be hung like a brother.
> 
> I don't mean a black man. I mean, like her biological brother.
> 
> ...
> 
> No one with ethics like these would ever commit immigration fraud.


----------



## eMacMan

Is Gerber coming up short on contributions to the Schumer election fund???

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/medi...or-federal-probe-of-contaminated-14547923.php

Maybe a better bet would be to release an actual synopsis of the report. Saying almost all baby foods contain heavy metals is a bit disingenuous. Are we talking trace levels that cannot possibly be removed or something a lot more serious?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Is Gerber coming up short on contributions to the Schumer election fund???
> 
> https://www.seattlepi.com/news/medi...or-federal-probe-of-contaminated-14547923.php
> 
> Maybe a better bet would be to release an actual synopsis of the report. Saying almost all baby foods contain heavy metals is a bit disingenuous. Are we talking trace levels that cannot possibly be removed or something a lot more serious?


Thereport is here:

https://www.healthybabyfood.org/sit...-10/BabyFoodReport_FULLREPORT_ENGLISH_R5b.pdf

We're not specifically talking baby food here. We're _primarily_ talking rice that contains these elements, regardless of whether it is used in baby food or adult food.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Thereport is here:
> 
> https://www.healthybabyfood.org/sit...-10/BabyFoodReport_FULLREPORT_ENGLISH_R5b.pdf
> 
> We're not specifically talking baby food here. We're _primarily_ talking rice that contains these elements, regardless of whether it is used in baby food or adult food.


Thanks, I suspected something along those lines. Presumably the baby food lobby will ante up and this will all be quickly forgotten.


----------



## eMacMan

https://gazette.com/premium/editori...cle_6b6415b6-f1eb-11e9-8ba0-fb2a7a0e792c.html

Good article, and fairly balanced even though the Gazette tends to lean heavily towards Republiblood 'values'.


----------



## FeXL

State Department Concludes Hillary Clinton Email Review, Finds 600 Violations of Security Rules



> We really should have voted this wonderful, sensible, law-abiding centrist as the True Conservative Choice for President.
> 
> State Department investigators probing Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state discovered nearly 600 security incidents that violated agency policy, according to a report the Daily Caller News Foundation obtained.
> 
> The investigation, conducted by the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, found 38 individuals were culpable for 91 security violations. Another 497 violations were found, but no individuals were found culpable in those incidents.
> 
> ...
> 
> Investigators determined personal email use to conduct official State Department business "represented an increased risk of unauthorized disclosure." Clinton's use of the private server "added an increased degree of risk of compromise as a private system lacks the network monitoring and intrusion detection capabilities of State Department networks," the report stated.
> 
> ...
> 
> One reason that investigators were unable to assign culpability in the 497 incidents was because of the duration of the investigation. Many of the subjects of the probe, including Clinton and her circle of aides, has left the State Department by the time the investigation began.​


----------



## FeXL

Mitt Romney's Secret Twitter Account Is Full NeverTrump and Retweets Lots of Liberals; Name Is Play on in pari delicto, "Both sides to blame"



> He is who we thought he was.
> 
> John Nolte notes that "Pierre Delecto" rebutted Mitt Romney's critics without acknowledging that he was in fact Mitt Romney.
> 
> Didn't some people on the right formerly have a problem with such White Knight Sockpuppets? Dishonest, and also pure vanity.
> 
> Everything about this story says so much about Mitt Romney: his pettiness, his insecurity, his lack of character, honesty, and decency, starting with how it all unraveled: Romney doing business with the establishment media -- in this case, the far-left Atlantic and activist-reporter, McKay Coppins, who was originally hired at BuzzFeed to destroy Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign.​


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bill's Wife.

Judicial Watch: Benghazi Emails Confirm Clinton Email Cover-Up



> On Monday, Judicial Watch released new emails involving former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Benghazi controversy that had been covered up for years and that would have exposed Clinton's private email account if they had been released to Judicial Watch in a FOIA request win 2014. One long withheld email, which provides talking points for a call with senators and therefore fits the criteria of records concerning "talking points or updates on the Benghazi attack," should have been disclosed in 2014, but it was hidden from Judicial Watch for years.
> 
> *"This email is a twofer – it shows Hillary Clinton misled the U.S. Senate on Benghazi and that the State Department wanted to hide the Benghazi connection to the Clinton email scheme," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. "Rather than defending her email misconduct, the Justice Department has more than enough evidence to reopen its investigations into Hillary Clinton."*


Bold mine.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

*Republicans storm secure impeachment deposition, delay testimony*

US congressional Republicans *furious about being left out* of the Donald Trump impeachment process stormed a closed-door witness deposition Wednesday and refused to leave for several hours, escalating a showdown over the investigation of the president.

More than two dozen lawmakers barged into a secure US Capitol meeting room known as a SCIF, delaying the testimony of a Pentagon official, the latest witness in Democrats' investigation of possible abuse of power by Trump over his pressure campaign against Ukraine.

* * *​
With Trump railing against process -- "Does anybody think this is fair?" he raged on Twitter -- a few dozen conservative backers sought to bring the conflict to a head by marching uninvited into the deposition room.

It is a violation of US House rules to enter SCIFs -- secure facilities designed to prevent electronic eavesdropping -- without permission, and concerns were raised that lawmakers were committing serious security breaches by entering with their mobile phones and other devices.

Some of the Republican encroachers apparently began tweeting from inside.

* * *​
*All members of the three House committees conducting the investigation, including more than 40 House Republicans -- among them Vice President Mike Pence's brother, congressman Greg Pence -- are permitted to attend the depositions and question witnesses.*

*Several of those with full access to the hearing actually joined other Republicans in the protest, *arguing that the impeachment process deserves more transparency

Republicans opposed to the impeachment process have settled on the new strategy of attacking the process itself, claiming it is invalid because the House has not taken a floor vote to launch an impeachment inquiry, and that it lacks transparency.

(DigitalJournal)​
*ALSO:*

*13 Republicans involved in impeachment protest already have access to hearings* (Axios)

...political theatre....


----------



## Macfury

Only seven of the Republicans were not represented at the hearings. This is well reported--did you think your superior detective skills sussed something out? But your bias is showing. This is not even a formal impeachment hearing. It's political theatre itself.



CubaMark said:


> ..political theatre....


----------



## eMacMan

Hey if it keeps out the Texans I'm sure most Coloradans are all for it!
https://www.seattlepi.com/local-politics/article/Trump-border-wall-colorado-14557631.php



> “You know why we're going to win New Mexico?” Trump said. “Because they want safety on their border. And they didn't have it. And we're building a wall on the border of New Mexico!
> 
> “And we're building a wall in Colorado,” the president said. “We're building a beautiful wall, a big one that really works — you can't get over, you can't get under.”


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Only seven of the Republicans were not represented at the hearings. This is well reported--did you think your superior detective skills sussed something out? But your bias is showing. This is not even a formal impeachment hearing. It's political theatre itself.


*Matt Gaetz and his Coalition of the Stupid stormed impeachment proceedings to 'demand transparency' — except that's not what it's really about
Republicans should be honest enough to admit what this is really about*

Republicans love to rail against the closed-door policy imposed during this impeachment inquiry, so here’a a note to remember: Since Watergate, impeachment hearings have been held behind closed doors. Clinton’s impeachment was also held behind closed doors. Democrats have not cooked up something new for Trump; this is merely precedent.

Matt Gaetz’s little stunt was never really about transparency, of course. It wasn’t even really about getting in the SCIF with their cellphones and thus compromising its integrity — though perhaps that was an added benefit. And maybe Republicans were happy to delay the testimony of the Pentagon official overseeing Ukraine policy adviser Laura Cooper, since every single day of testimony has brought new allegations of quid pro quo and various other impeachable acts. But that wasn’t the real reason they did it.

No, the real reason Matt Gaetz and “his coalition of the stupid” stormed the SCIF was to try and win the hearts and minds of their Fox News-addicted base. Because impeachment is both a legal and a political process, and these Republicans know that even if Democrats have enough evidence to impeach Trump, getting Republican senators to vote to remove him is all that stands between a President Trump and a President Pence. 

(Independent UK)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

<snort>

So should the Progs...



CubaMark said:


> Republicans should be honest enough to admit what this is really about


----------



## CubaMark

*
Trump vs Trump*

_WHO WILL WIN?????_

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYUUjGUHKRs[/ame]



​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> <snort>
> 
> So should the Progs...


He's quoting analysis from _The Independent_'s resident Trump-hater as some sort of evidence.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He's quoting analysis from _The Independent_'s resident Trump-hater as some sort of evidence.


Well, in _that_ case...


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please...

Trump Campaign Begs Hillary To Run Come 2020



> As rumors swirl that former First Lady Hillary Clinton is seriously considering a 2020 rematch with Donald Trump, the president’s campaign spokeswoman Kayleigh McEnany begged that she enter the race.
> 
> Speaking on “Fox & Friends,” McEnany said that neither Hillary Clinton nor Michelle Obama poses a threat to President Trump while encouraging Hillary to jump into the fray.
> 
> *“We encourage Hillary to get back in the race,” she said, as reported by Fox News. “We would love it, so please do.”*


Bold mine...


----------



## FeXL

The # surprises me, too.

Wow: According to Battleground Poll, 67% of Americans Think America Is on the Edge of a Civil War



> Um, that's... correct.
> 
> I'm just astonished that so many people have a grasp on this reality.
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but a quick shorthand I use (borrowed from someone else) when evaluating people is if they Know What Time It Is, or if they Don't Know What Time It Is.


----------



## FeXL

Further on Katie Hill.

#BelieveAllWomen



> _Daily Mail_: Shocking photos of Congresswoman Katie Hill are revealed as she’s seen NAKED showing off Nazi-era tattoo while smoking a bong, kissing her female staffer and posing nude on ‘wife sharing’ sites​
> But that’s totally different.


And

Oh No, Katie! Photo Emerges of Naked Katie Hill, Smoking a _Bong_



> And here's the kicker: She has an Iron Cross tattoo right on the corner of her bikini triangle, or, in precise medical terminology, along the iliac crest of her proximal guntline.


NAZI!!! :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Further on Katie Hill.
> 
> #BelieveAllWomen
> 
> 
> 
> And
> 
> Oh No, Katie! Photo Emerges of Naked Katie Hill, Smoking a _Bong_
> 
> 
> 
> NAZI!!! :yikes:


Old CubaMark would be all over this if it was a Republican. Now his lazy eye turns back to the sad pages of_ Das Kapital_.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Old CubaMark would be all over this if it was a Republican. Now his lazy eye turns back to the sad pages of_ Das Kapital_.


OMG!!! A BONG!!!!!!!!!!! in CALIFORNIA!!!!!!! 

OMG!!! PEOPLE GETTIN' FREAKY IN THE BEDROOM!!!!! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?????? EEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

As for the "Nazi symbolism", from the story you guys linked to:

_"The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) references in its hate symbols database that the iron cross symbol goes back to the 19th century, included on medals for the German Empire. 

It was later adopted by Nazis for their medals, putting a swastika in the middle of the cross.

However, the ADL does note the 'Iron Cross in isolation (i.e., without a superimposed swastika or without other accompanying hate symbols) cannot be determined to be a hate symbol,' because bikers, skateboarders and extreme sports enthusiasts frequently use the symbol. "_​

Hill's relationship with Desjardins does appear to violate ethics rules on being romantically involved with your staff. From what's been made public, it certainly doesn't seem like this falls into a sexual power trip of a powerful boss over an impressionable young worker.... but whatever.

Very titillating. But as usual, this is just social conservatives getting their hypocritical panties in a twist.

We jump on Republicans when they are involved in sexual malfeasance because they're so damn hypocritical about it precisely. They rail about the evils of homosexuality (and then we find them sitting with "wide stances" in airport bathrooms). 

The things you guys try to grab onto to discredit folks whose politics are different from your own... hilarious... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Whoooosh...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

You'd have jumped on the Iron Cross, and then not done the carefully parsed research to indicate that the Iron Cross is AOK with good ol' CM!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You'd have jumped on the Iron Cross, and then not done the carefully parsed research to indicate that the Iron Cross is AOK with good ol' CM!


Do you have any corroborating evidence that indicates Hill's reason for inking her body thusly? Is it recent? Was it something she did as a teenager? Did she have any political leanings or affiliations to racist organizations? Do you have ANYTHING at all that might shed light on the matter?

Or are you simply _assuming_?

Always interesting how *********** symbols used by President Cheetoh and his minions get a pass from you guys, but a tattoo which may not be what you think it is means she's the apocryphal great-granddaughter of Adolph Bloody Hitler! :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

_Hill hasn't commented on the tattoo, but she did comment on the scandal thusly:_

“During the final tumultuous years of my abusive marriage, I became involved in a relationship with someone on my campaign. I know that even a consensual relationship with a subordinate is inappropriate, but I still allowed it to happen despite my better judgment. For that I apologize. I wish nothing but the best for her and hope everyone respects her privacy in this difficult time.

But the truth is, distributing intimate photos with the intent to publish them is a crime, and the perpetrator should be punished to the full extent of the law. I have notified Capitol Police, who are investigating it, and therefore will have no further comment on the matter.

I am going through a divorce from an abusive husband who seems determined to try to humiliate me. I am disgusted that my opponents would seek to exploit such a private matter for political gain. This coordinated effort to try to destroy me and the people close to me is despicable and will not succeed. I, like many women who have faced attacks like this before, am stronger than those who want me to be afraid.”​Were she a Republican, I wonder if you would all be rushing to pile on the hatred, given her statement above?


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Once again, Whoosh...



CubaMark said:


> Were she a Republican, I wonder if you would all be rushing to pile on the hatred, given her statement above?


----------



## Macfury

You would never have asked such questions if it had been a Republican. What a hypocrite!



CubaMark said:


> Do you have any corroborating evidence that indicates Hill's reason for inking her body thusly? Is it recent? Was it something she did as a teenager? Did she have any political leanings or affiliations to racist organizations? Do you have ANYTHING at all that might shed light on the matter?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You would never have asked such questions if it had been a Republican. What a hypocrite!


DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!

We have a winnah!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

In another forum Sharpie61 posts that some are comparing Baghdadi to Kenny from South Park:


6/12/16: al-Baghdadi killed in a US airstrike.
5/28/17: killed in Russian air strike.
6/11/17: killed in Syrian artillery strike.
6/29/17: Iranian leader says he's "definitely dead." 
7/11/17: Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed his death.
10/26/2019: Killed again.


The truth is out there


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> In another forum Sharpie61 posts that some are comparing Baghdadi to Kenny from South Park:
> 
> 
> 6/12/16: al-Baghdadi killed in a US airstrike.
> 5/28/17: killed in Russian air strike.
> 6/11/17: killed in Syrian artillery strike.
> 6/29/17: Iranian leader says he's "definitely dead."
> 7/11/17: Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed his death.
> 10/26/2019: Killed again.
> 
> 
> The truth is out there



Actually I think he has now died at least 12 times.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Actually I think he has now died at least 12 times.




So what’s the truth? Were they lying then or are they lying now?


----------



## Macfury

Death was rumoured previously, so nobody was lying. I suspect he's dead now.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So what’s the truth? Were they lying then or are they lying now?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Death was rumoured previously, so nobody was lying. I suspect he's dead now.


I am sure when it is politically convenient he will yet again reincarnate to die yet another expeditious death.

FWIW there is fairly solid evidence that Baghdadi is really Jewish and Mossad which would certainly explain the rather fluid nature of his existence.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I am sure when it is politically convenient he will yet again reincarnate to die yet another expeditious death.


Again with ocean disposal of the body. No longer sure of this.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Again with ocean disposal of the body. No longer sure of this.


Of course we could be looking at genuine resurrections. In which case the US might be wise to stop antagonizing this pair by killing them whenever it happens to suit the US lamestream narrative.


----------



## eMacMan

In one of my former lives I lived in the mountains of Colorado and radio reception was at best spotty. Sadly the station that always came through was KOA in Denver and Mike Rosen was the their big gun. I had a general rule; If I agreed with Rosen I should very carefully review my own position. So it is with more than a little distress that I find myself in complete agreement with Mike for the second time in the past few weeks.
https://gazette.com/opinion/column-...cle_e95d085e-fcb5-11e9-aabd-a780afcaee41.html

Of course the NY Times is usually a pretty safe target, but in this case they are even more bonkers than is their norm.


----------



## eMacMan

Ain't it da troof.


----------



## SINC

*The scandal in Washington no one is talking about*



> The deadly-but-forgotten government gun-running scandal known as “Fast and Furious” has lain dormant for years, thanks to White House stonewalling and media compliance. But newly uncovered emails have reopened the case, exposing the anatomy of a coverup by an administration that promised to be the most transparent in history.
> 
> At least 20 other deaths or violent crimes have been linked to Fast and Furious-trafficked guns.
> 
> A federal judge has forced the release of more than 20,000 pages of emails and memos previously locked up under President Obama’s phony executive-privilege claim. A preliminary review shows top Obama officials deliberately obstructing congressional probes into the border gun-running operation.
> 
> Fast and Furious was a Justice Department program that allowed assault weapons — including .50-caliber rifles powerful enough to take down a helicopter — to be sold to Mexican drug cartels allegedly as a way to track them. But internal documents later revealed the real goal was to gin up a crisis requiring a crackdown on guns in America. Fast and Furious was merely a pretext for imposing stricter gun laws.
> 
> Only the scheme backfired when Justice agents lost track of the nearly 2,000 guns sold through the program and they started turning up at murder scenes on both sides of the border — including one that claimed the life of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
> 
> While then-Attorney General Eric Holder was focused on politics, people were dying. At least 20 other deaths or violent crimes have been linked to Fast and Furious-trafficked guns.
> 
> The program came to light only after Terry’s 2010 death at the hands of Mexican bandits, who shot him in the back with government-issued semiautomatic weapons. Caught red-handed, “the most transparent administration in history” flat-out lied about the program to Congress, denying it ever even existed.
> 
> Then Team Obama conspired to derail investigations into who was responsible by first withholding documents under subpoena — for which Holder earned a contempt-of-Congress citation — and later claiming executive privilege to keep evidence sealed.


More here: https://nypost.com/2016/05/21/the-s...gYMHZs2nlyvoO9cf2AoFeJy77Od9HsKO0BCr-Vv2Dnk50


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> But internal documents later revealed the real goal was to gin up a crisis requiring a crackdown on guns in America. Fast and Furious was merely a pretext for imposing stricter gun laws.


F'ing Progs. How low can you go...


----------



## FeXL

Jon Solomon: Hunter Biden Lobbied Obama's State Department to Lay Off Pressure for Political and Economic Reforms In Ukraine



> Nothing to see here, folks. Move on.
> 
> Hunter Biden and his Ukrainian gas firm colleagues had multiple contacts with the Obama State Department during the 2016 election cycle, including one just a month before Vice President Joe Biden forced Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son’s company for corruption, newly released memos show.​


But, but, but...ORANGEMANBAD!!!


----------



## FeXL

How Does a Government Drinks Monopoly Lose Money?



> ..._t seems government-run liquor shops aren’t the most efficient enterprises, either. News broke recently that Maryland’s Montgomery County liquor stores actually lose millions each year. Yes, you read that right. A monopolist that sells a high-margin product (beverages) cannot turn a profit despite being able to set the prices._


_

Shocka..._


----------



## FeXL

It's been a while since I posted any political cartoons.

First one made me LMAO...


----------



## FeXL

Further on Bro-Fo!

You might not be able to hurry love. But you sure can a divorce. Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) is now officially a single gal again.



> DIVORCE, MINNESOTA STYLE
> Ilhan Omar only got around to marrying husband Ahmed Hirsi last year, but yesterday she she was legally divorced from him. She had been divorced from him earlier this year “in her faith tradition,” as she likes to say, when Hirsi discovered her affair with her consultant and fundraiser, Tim Mynett.
> 
> Expertly working the tabloid angle, the Daily Mail originally reported the story of Omar’s affair this past July. Power Line originally reported the Islamic divorce here.
> 
> Omar and Hirsi quickly agreed on the terms of their divorce and submitted the stipulation to the court. The Star Tribune takes it all at face value (including Omar’s past statement on her tangled marital history), although it does acknowledge issues about Omar’s marriage to Ahmed Nur Said Elmi in 2009.
> 
> Elmi, I have concluded, is Omar’s brother. This is something of an open secret in Minneapolis’s Somali community. It is more open than secret.​
> Will she marry the white ***** she was bopping on the side?
> 
> *Or does she have another brother or cousin looking to immigrate?*


Bold mine.

ZIIIIIING!!!


----------



## Beej

A brief study in modern political communications.

Elizabeth Warren's campaign set up a "meme team" and, naturally, was given favourable coverage in the NY Times. A privilege of having the correct politics.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/01/opinion/democrats-2020-election-online.html

Their Plan document includes this quote:


> The Right understands the importance of Memes. They approach it like war, and have succeeded in engaging their supporters' participation. We won't fight an asymmetric battle, and don't believe in unilateral disarmament. We fight back, in a way that's authentic to our values.


Sounds kind of serious, given the product, but it's a start. They proceeded to post a couple of the worst campaign connected political gifs I've ever seen. Sort of like Clinton's "Pokemon Go to the polls" line, but many times worse and presented with greater pride. 

How bad were they? The official meme team account deleted their tweets.
https://twitter.com/WarrensMemeTeam

You can still find the team's work, but usually as fodder in someone's video ridiculing the meme team.

This is from one of the leading campaigns in the Democrat's primary, with millions of dollars to spend on media. The winner will eventually be going up against this:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFaMzONaBA[/ame]

I think Plan A is impeachment and Plan B is that Meme Jesus will emerge from their increasingly politically correct fan base. There is no Plan C.


----------



## CubaMark

_The Liar-in-Chief, the Thief-in-Chief, the man without morals, I give you... Donald J. Trump!_

*Trump ordered to pay $2M for misusing his charitable foundation*










A New York judge has ordered Donald Trump to pay $2 million US to settle a lawsuit alleging he misused his charitable foundation to further his political and business interests before he became U.S. president.

New York state Judge Saliann Scarpulla imposed the penalty in connection with a lawsuit brought against Trump by the New York attorney general's office over the handling of the Trump Foundation's assets.

Among other things, the judge ruled that Trump improperly allowed his presidential campaign staff to work with the foundation in holding a fundraiser for veterans' charities in the run-up to the 2016 Iowa caucuses. The event was designed "to further Mr. Trump's political campaign," Scarpulla said.

In the settlement, Trump admitted, among other things, to have improperly arranged for the charity to pay $10,000 for a six-foot portrait of him. He also agreed to pay back $11,525 in the organization's funds he spent on sports memorabilia and champagne at a charity gala. He also agreed to restrictions on his involvement in other charitable organizations.

The agreement was an about-face for Trump. He and his lawyers have blasted the lawsuit as politically motivated, and he tweeted, "I won't settle this case!" when it was filed in June 2018.

* * *​
Trump's fine and the charity's remaining $1.7 million funds will be split evenly among eight organizations, including City Meals-on-Wheels, the United ***** College Fund and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

New York Attorney General Letitia James said resolution of the case is a "major victory in our efforts to protect charitable assets and hold accountable those who would abuse charities for personal gain.

(CBC)​


----------



## Macfury

CM, give it up. Writing thousand-word accusations every time some left-wing rag farts while ignoring every massive failure and crime of the left does not become anyone who purports to be a serious researcher.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Speaking of lying, stealing & lacking morals, curious you've never addressed the Clinton Foundation follies. Bill's Wife above reproach?



CubaMark said:


> The Liar-in-Chief, the Thief-in-Chief, the man without morals, I give you... Donald J. Trump!


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Speaking of lying, stealing & lacking morals, curious you've never addressed the Clinton Foundation follies. Bill's Wife above reproach?


The left-o-meter gives her a free pass. Old CM doesn't even bat an eye when the Clinton Foundation screws over a poor country like Haiti. What a hypocrite!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What a hypocrite!


I've noted on these boards before: For Progs, hyprocrisy is a feature, not a bug.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Speaking of lying, stealing & lacking morals, curious you've never addressed the Clinton Foundation follies. Bill's Wife above reproach?


Just because I don't obsessively parrot your rants doesn't mean I'm in bed with Hilary.

As I posted in this very thread:

_You also continue to infer that I support the Democrats, that I agree with their politics: that's incorrect. Obama, Clintons, etc., are anathema me as a Canadian and student of global history. 

The Democrats, for whatever "progressive" social policies they may promote, nonetheless - when they hold the reins of power - continue to wage wars of empire, interfere in the domestic affairs of sovereign nations, massacre innocents (with a particularly odd penchant for drone strikes on weddings), etc. The Democrats are easier to take than the insane, racist, genocidal policies of the rabid right-wing, but they are not to be trusted nor accommodated.

Republican or Democrat, they are still the two faces of the United States of Corporate America._​
And as for Haiti, I've been criticizing US interference and malfeasance in that country for a very long time....

...But hey, do prattle on about how my not constantly warbling about the Clintons is somehow evidence that I secretly support them (just like Obama is a 'secret muslim' and all that dog-whistle bull**** you guys eat up for breakfast / lunch / dinner).


----------



## Macfury

You've already said you won't generally go after anyone who intends to push the markers left. You may not be in bed with them, but you tuck in the sheets and fluff the pillows...



CubaMark said:


> Just because I don't obsessively parrot your rants doesn't mean I'm in bed with Hilary.
> 
> As I posted in this very thread:
> 
> _You also continue to infer that I support the Democrats, that I agree with their politics: that's incorrect. Obama, Clintons, etc., are anathema me as a Canadian and student of global history.
> 
> The Democrats, for whatever "progressive" social policies they may promote, nonetheless - when they hold the reins of power - continue to wage wars of empire, interfere in the domestic affairs of sovereign nations, massacre innocents (with a particularly odd penchant for drone strikes on weddings), etc. The Democrats are easier to take than the insane, racist, genocidal policies of the rabid right-wing, but they are not to be trusted nor accommodated.
> 
> Republican or Democrat, they are still the two faces of the United States of Corporate America._​
> And as for Haiti, I've been criticizing US interference and malfeasance in that country for a very long time....
> 
> ...But hey, do prattle on about how my not constantly warbling about the Clintons is somehow evidence that I secretly support them (just like Obama is a 'secret muslim' and all that dog-whistle bull**** you guys eat up for breakfast / lunch / dinner).


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

No. Instead, you obsess about anybody who is right of Marx. Hence, my observation about your silence on Bill's Wife.



CubaMark said:


> Just because I don't obsessively parrot your rants doesn't mean I'm in bed with Hilary.


Jug Ears wasn't a 'secret muslim'. From his kow-towing to them throughout his reign as America's worst President it's as obvious as the Dumbo flaps on the sides of his head...



CubaMark said:


> ...(just like Obama is a 'secret muslim' and all that dog-whistle bull**** you guys eat up for breakfast / lunch / dinner).


----------



## Beej

Facebook and YouTube say they are removing content mentioning potential whistleblower's name
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/tech/facebook-whistleblower-name/index.html



> A YouTube spokesperson said videos mentioning the potential whistleblower's name would also be removed. The spokesperson said the company would use a combination of machine learning and human review to scrub the content.


The tech platforms can get quite ridiculous when they are guided by conventional media's panic attacks. Even if the name had not already been reported, they're banning this one specific item of gossip and rumour from the internet? That's not at all suspicious.

I think they'd be better served by a) continuing to take ad revenue from conventional media, and b) telling them to get stuffed. 

I get that the platforms are worried about what their craziest users will do with the information but, if you want 200 million American customers, you're going to have to accept the risk of crazies and idiots. Tide Pods did.

Edit: Eric Ciaramella


----------



## Macfury

Beej said:


> Facebook and YouTube say they are removing content mentioning potential whistleblower's name
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/tech/facebook-whistleblower-name/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> The tech platforms can get quite ridiculous when they are guided by conventional media's panic attacks. Even if the name had not already been reported, they're banning this one specific item of gossip and rumour from the internet? That's not at all suspicious.
> 
> I think they'd be better served by a) continuing to take ad revenue from conventional media, and b) telling them to get stuffed.
> 
> I get that the platforms are worried about what their craziest users will do with the information but, if you want 200 million American customers, you're going to have to accept the risk of crazies and idiots. Tide Pods did.
> 
> Edit: Eric Ciaramella


No lefty wants this guy to take the stand for fear of major damage to his own reputation as a "whistleblower." He would be forced to testify about rehearsing with Schiff. End of story.


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> No lefty wants this guy to take the stand for fear of major damage to his own reputation as a "whistleblower." He would be forced to testify about rehearsing with Schiff. End of story.


I'm pretty sure that's mostly media and the party itself. Their leftwing voters are fed a steady diet of AOC "pwning" various officials. The clips sometimes have to be VERY short to maintain the illusion. :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

Revealing the name could have chilling effects on other whistle blowers? If you don't want to have a chilling effect then please explain the mistreatment of Julian Assange, Edward Snowdon, Mr/Ms Manning.


----------



## FeXL

When you've lost the _WaPo_...

WaPo Editorial: ‘Fantastically Generous’ Medicare for All Plans Are ‘Fiction’



> The _Washington Post_ editorial board on Thursday launched a broadside against presidential candidates Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.) for Medicare for All proposals that are "too good to be true."
> 
> The editorial began by granting the potential benefits of a single payer health care before critiquing the proposals of Sanders and Warren, saying their "fantastically generous benefits" are "fiction."
> 
> "The two presidential candidates promise far more generous benefits than other countries offer. They pretend that the United States wouldn’t have to make any of the trade-offs other nations have had to make," the board said. "They promise fantastically generous benefits, no premiums, co-payments or other cost-sharing, and a miraculously low price tag. It’s fiction."


----------



## FeXL

Stephen Moore: We're Seeing an Undeniable Boom in the Middle Class Economy



> It's just because people are working like nine jobs or something.
> 
> I recently wrote op-eds that ran in the Wall Street Journal and on these pages that showed median household incomes under Donald Trump have soared from $61,000 to an all-time high of $66,000 in less than three years into the Trump presidency. This is tremendous news and documents substantial middle-class prosperity in Trump's first three years in office.
> 
> The $5,003 rise in middle-class incomes is especially impressive given that incomes only rose by $1,200 in the seven years under Obama -- after the recession ended.​


More:



> Lesley Stahl: Why doesn’t it feel that way? Why does it feel as if we were in a particularly uncertain time?​
> Um, because you're a neurotic bitch who lives on Twitter and soars and seethes with every tweet about your obsession, Donald Trump?
> 
> Just a guess.


:clap::lmao::clap::lmao::clap::lmao:

I have no truck with that assessment whatsoever...


----------



## FeXL

Dis gonna be good...

Leaked Documents: Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office



> Timing is everything.
> 
> BOMBSHELL:
> 
> Leaked documents from the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s office indicate complex money transfers from foreign sources into the control of a “slush fund” owned and operated by Devon Archer, John Kerry Senior, John Kerry Junior, Heinz Jr, and Hunter Biden.
> 
> — Michael Coudrey (@MichaelCoudrey) November 14, 2019
> 
> Leaked transaction and bank records indicate an influx of large payments from Ukrainian energy company Burisma Holdings Limited to Rosemont Seneca Bohai LLC, in what appears to be monthly payments of $83,333.33. pic.twitter.com/BZXi61NnOO
> 
> — Michael Coudrey (@MichaelCoudrey) November 14, 2019​


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Dis gonna be good...
> 
> Leaked Documents: Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office



You can bet dem democrypts will be demanding to know the name of this leaker.


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Report - 11/14/19



> Good morning kids. Thursday and the first open hearings of the sham-peachment top the news. Despite the media hype that the opening day's star witnesses, Ukraine ambassador Bill Taylor and State Dept. bureaucrat George Kent, were going to nail Trump to the wall with explosive revelations, the entire thing was a big fat dud. If anything, their testimonies did quite the opposite of what was intended thanks in large part to the stellar performances by Jim Jordan and John Ratcliffe in particular. *I mean dead silence and crickets when Mark Ratcliffe point blank asked "where is the impeachable offense."* And when it came to trying to blame Trump for extortion, or quid pro quo, or bribery or whatever new term the Dems create, star witness Kent, who I understand is some sort of expert on corruption, flat out stated that US loans to Ukraine have always had strings attached. Woops.


Bold mine.

Precisely...


----------



## FeXL

Bill's Wife a Nazi!!!

Alt-Right Nazi Hillary Clinton Expresses Caution About Whether Transwomen Are Really Women; Says Society Needs Time to Figure This Out



> I call her an alt-right Nazi because I have been assured by the official keepers of permissible discourse -- our social media monopolist masters -- that questioning whether trans "women" are actually women is proof positive that one is an incel manbaby who hates women and loves guns.


Yeppers!


----------



## FeXL

Of Course: Allegations of a Pattern of Sexual Harassment and Actual Rape at the DOJ, and of Course All the Attendant Cover-Ups



> Nothing but straight-arrow professionals who eat, drink, and **** justice.
> 
> *"They Allowed It": A Justice Department Employee Said She Was Raped By A Senior Official. New Documents Show A Pattern Of Harassment At The Department. Documents and interviews reveal new details about a pattern of sexual harassment by a senior Justice Department official, and what the department did -- and did not do -- in the year since he resigned.​*


More:



> The Deep State is a guild that protects even rapists. Once you're in, you're in.


----------



## FeXL

Friday's Jobs Report Unexpectedly Smashes Expectations; Job Numbers in Prior Months Unexpectedly Revised Upwards



> Nonfarm payrolls rose by 128,000 in October, exceeding the estimate of 75,000 from economists surveyed by Dow Jones.
> 
> There were big revisions of past numbers as well. August’s initial 168,000 payrolls addition was revised up to 219,000, while September’s jumped from 136,000 to 180,000.
> 
> The unemployment rate ticked slightly higher to 3.6% from 3.5%, still near the lowest in 50 years.
> 
> The pace of average hourly earnings picked up a bit, rising 0.1% to a year-over-year 3% gain.
> 
> ...
> 
> The unemployment rate for African Americans nudged down to a record low 5.4%. Also, the total employment level as measured in the household survey jumped to 158.5 million, also a new high.
> 
> The pace of average hourly earnings picked up a bit, rising 0.1% to a year-over-year 3% gain, also in line with estimates. The average work week was unchanged at 34.4 hours.
> 
> “This report is yet another sign that the economy is still strong right now and adds to a list of indicators that are looking optimistic of late,” said Steve Rick, chief economist at CUNA Mutual Group. “The vigor of this labor market, along with a more positive housing market and solid Q3 GDP, should offer some welcome reassurance.”​


But...but...but...ORANGEMANBAD!!!


----------



## FeXL

You'll have to elect me to see what it costs.

Bernie: ‘I Don’t Think I Have To’ Explain How To Pay For Socialized Medicine



> 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders of Vermont said in an interview published Tuesday that he doesn’t believe he needs to tell voters how it’s possible to fund his massively expensive plans for socialized medicine dubbed “Medicare for All.”
> 
> When pressed by CNBC’s John Harwood on how a Sanders administration would come up with enough revenue for the program, Sanders dismissed the concern.
> 
> “You’re asking me to come up with an exact detailed plan of how every American – how much you’re going to pay more in taxes, how much I’m going to pay. I don’t think I have to do that right now,” Sanders asserted.


----------



## FeXL

I jes' luvs me these little nuggets of truth that slip past the censors...

Alexandria Donkey-Chompers: The Goal of This Fake Impeachment Is to Unite the Competing Factions of the Democrat Party to Avoid a "Potentially Disastrous Outcome" In Next Year's Elections



> Dum-dum is too dumb not to know she's supposed to lie and say this is about "upholding the Constitution" or something.
> 
> Instead, she admitted this was about getting the hardcore woke progs on board for the election.


----------



## FeXL

Unethical Hyperpartisan Angry Democrat Andrew Weismann Joins, Get This, NBC News as a "Legal Analyst," Because Of Course



> Relatedly -- pretty sure these two beauts have each other on speed-dial -- Adam Schiff is described as a "complete liar" by one of his fellow congressmen, Representative Jason Smith.
> 
> *Adam Schiff is a complete liar.* And for me to say that for a colleague that I serve with is very extreme. That's why I support him being censured. I mean, the guy should be removed as the Intelligence Chairman. He started out in the last public hearing completely falsifying the transcript of the President’s conversation with the Ukrainian President. He's a phony, he's a fake, and he’s a liar. He started with the Mueller Report and he's doing it now. He's a disgrace to all members of Congress.​


Bold mine.

Ya don't say...


----------



## FeXL

Source: You Don't Impanel a Grand Jury Unless You Intend to Indict; Obama's Minions Have Reason to be Afraid



> And to beg the people in the media they routinely leak to to start working future juries on their behalf.
> 
> Wouldn't this be nice?
> 
> A number of former high-level Obama administration officials could fall into the investigative crosshairs of U.S. Attorney John Durham's team as his probe into the handling of the Russia investigation rises to the level of a criminal inquiry.
> 
> The elevation in status means the U.S. attorney for Connecticut will be able to subpoena witnesses, file charges and impanel grand juries.​


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

I haven't gone over the entire transcript but said summary is very interesting.

Attorney General William P. Barr at the Federalist Society



> Richard Fernandez: _I don’t know enough law to meaningfully comment on Barr’s argument, but its breadth and mere existence are every bit as provocative as knocking the hat off the pole. This is the dread moment that may pass unnoticed–or otherwise.
> _
> Full transcript here and a good Twitter summary by Josh Blackman.
> 
> Through the scorched earth, no holds barred war of resistance, the left is shredding rule of law and undermining rule of law.
> 
> — Josh Blackman (@JoshMBlackman) November 15, 2019​


----------



## SINC

I came across this article and while it is long, it certainly provides insight to Trump the man, and how he operates. It also opens a lot of questions and some surprising manipulation techniques.

*Everything You Need To Know About Trump (But Were Afraid To Admit You Wondered)*



> The timing is right for everyone to understand what Donald Trump is doing, and try to decrypt the ambiguity of how he is is doing it. The controversial President has a much clearer agenda than anyone can imagine on both foreign policy and internal affairs, but since he has to stay in power or even stay alive to achieve his objectives, his strategy is so refined and subtle that next to no one can see it. His overall objective is so ambitious that he has to follow random elliptic courses to get from point A to point B, using patterns that throw people off on their comprehension of the man. That includes most independent journalists and so-called alternative analysts, as much as Western mainstream fake-news publishers and a large majority of the population.
> 
> About his strategy, I could make a quick and accurate analogy with medication: most pills are designed to cure a problem, but come with an array of secondary after-effects. Well, Trump is using medication solely for their after-effects, while the first intent of the pill is what’s keeping him in power and alive. By the end of this article, you’ll see that this metaphor applies for just about every decision, move or declaration he’s made. Once you understand what Trump is about, you’ll be able to appreciate the extraordinary presidency he’s conducting, like no predecessor ever came close to match.
> 
> To start off, let’s clear the one aspect of his mission that is straightforward and terribly direct: he’s the first and only American President to ever address humanity’s worst collective flaw, its total ignorance of reality. Because medias and education are both controlled by the handful of billionaires that are running the planet, we don’t know anything about our history that’s been twisted dry by the winners, and we don’t have a clue about our present world. As he stepped in the political arena, Donald popularized the expression «fake news» to convince the American citizens, and the world population as well, that medias always lie to you. The expression has now become commonplace, but do you realize how deeply shocking is the fact that nearly everything you think you know is totally fake?
> 
> Media lies don’t just cover history and politics, but they have shaped your false perception on topics like economy, food, climate, health, on everything. What if I told you that we know exactly who shot JFK from the grassy knoll, that the foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor was proven in court, that the CO2 greenhouse effect is scientifically absurd, that our money is created through loans by banks who don’t even have the funds, or that science proves with a 100% certainty that 911 was an inside job? Ever heard of a mainstream journalist, PBS documentary or university teacher telling you about any of this? 44 Presidents came and went without even raising one word about this huge problem, before the 45th came along. Trump knows that freeing the people out of this unfathomable ignorance is the first step to overall freedom, so he started calling mainstream journalists and their news outlets for what they are: pathological liars.


Much more at the link.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ow-about-trump-were-afraid-admit-you-wondered


----------



## Beej

*Say it ain't so Joe*



> "No man has a right to raise a hand to a woman in anger other than in self-defense, and that’s rarely ever occurs. So we have to just change the culture, period, and keep punching at it and punching at it. No, I really mean it."


https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1197360941937168384

It's worth watching the clip with audio. The audience noticed and laughed at him. His frequent "gaffes" are looking a lot more like a mental problem than "quirky uncle Joe" of the past.

Lyrics to the old song below.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW9tq9ImRTg[/ame]


> Say it ain't so, Joe please
> Say it ain't so
> That's not what I want to hear Joe and I've got a right to know
> 
> Say it ain't so, Joe please
> Say it ain't so
> I'm sure they're telling us lies Joe please tell us it ain't so
> 
> They told us that our hero has played his trump card
> He doesn't know how to go on
> We're clinging to his charm and determined smile
> But the good old days are gone
> 
> The image and the empire may be falling apart
> The money has gotten scarce
> One man's word held the country together
> But the truth is getting fierce
> 
> Say it ain't so, Joe please
> Say it ain't so
> We pinned our hopes on you Joe and they're ruining our show


----------



## CubaMark

*Fiona Hill rebukes conspiracy theory – and emerges as a heroine for our times*










Long before Fiona Hill arrived to testify on Capitol Hill, there was a long line for public seats and a crackling sense of anticipation for one of the most important moments so far in the impeachment of Donald Trump.

* * *​
When Hill was senior director of the national security council (NSC), the president seems to have been only vaguely aware of her importance, mistaking her early on for a secretary. But that was not necessarily unusual. As Hill testified on Thursday, Trump also had no idea who his Ukraine adviser was.

* * *​
She had served under three presidents, including in the role of national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia. She co-wrote a book on the Russian president called Mr Putin: Operative in Kremlin, which focuses on how his KGB mindset influences how he rules and how he conducts Russian foreign policy.

It was because of her mastery of her subject that she was asked to work in the White House in 2017. She decided to take the NSC job, despite the trepidation of some friends and colleagues, because she thought she could help with the official policy of the Trump administration, mend relations with Moscow as much as possible while deterring Russia’s most menacing behaviour.

The other half of Hill’s underlying message to Congress was that the country’s political leadership was in danger of destroying the very ideals that had drawn her and generations of immigrants to the United States in the first place. And it was even worse than that: politicians were taking an axe to their own country at Putin’s bidding.

Her opening statement was a blunt rebuttal of a conspiracy theory adopted by Trump’s supporters in Congress that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that had meddled in the 2016 US elections, in favour of the Democrats, rather than Trump.

Hill called it “a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves”.

The previous day, Putin, unable to contain his glee, had told an economic forum in the Russian capital: “Thank God, no one is accusing us of interfering in the US elections any more; now they’re accusing Ukraine.”

Hill appealed to her inquisitors: “I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.”

Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the committee, bridled at her remarks – unsurprisingly, as his role throughout the proceedings has been to propagate the conspiracy theory that Hill was talking about. Nunes insisted that Republicans had produced their own report about Russian interference and it was quite possible that two foreign governments had meddled.

In her answers to the initial round of questions, Hill took that argument apart. The judgment that Russia had successfully intervened in the election was underpinned by the consensus of the US intelligence agencies, and was based on facts, many of them in the public domain. The Ukraine story was built on falsehoods, many of them propagated through social media by the Kremlin.

It is a distinction that has been in danger of being washed away. Hill was there to re-establish clear lines, and it was not clear how Trump and his camp would respond. Trump, normally quick to launch attacks on perceived threats, especially women, had restrained his Twitter thumbs for the whole morning.

(The Guardian UK)​


----------



## eMacMan

If something is supported by social media posts, chances are it's a pretty big lie. Remember Facebook has been the CIAs baby ever since the CIA stole the coding patents from McGibbens and proclaimed Zuckerburg (not his real name) to be the proprietor, even though Mark cannot and never has written a single line of usable code.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> If something is supported by social media posts, chances are it's a pretty big lie. Remember Facebook has been the CIAs baby ever since the CIA stole the coding patents from McGibbens and proclaimed Zuckerburg (not his real name) to be the proprietor, even though Mark cannot and never has written a single line of usable code.


Don't listen to CubaMark. He treats the CIA with derision and then uses it to prop up a failing argument two minutes hence!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Still with the Russkies, huh?

And, a heroine? Yeah, for Progs desperately scratching & clinging to the last hopeful vestiges for impeachment...



CubaMark said:


> Fiona Hill rebukes conspiracy theory – and emerges as a heroine for our times


Related:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

What a simple view you have of Trump’s transgressions.


----------



## Macfury

What is Trump's transgression? Make it simple so we can all understand.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a simple view you have of Trump’s transgressions.


----------



## FeXL

C'mon, Freddie, tell us: What law(s) has he broken?

Be specific.

As to your observation, the answer is simple because the issue is simple: OrangeManBad!!! It extends no further, no wider & no deeper than that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a simple view you have of Trump’s transgressions.


----------



## FeXL

I want to take your guns,



> tell you what you can and can’t eat and drink, cater to my friends/biz partners in China, force you to sacrifice to my weird weather God, and generally force you to live the way me and my friends think you should live. Obey.


Sums it up rather nicely...


----------



## FeXL

Prog heads exploding...

Stephen Moore: Time for Trump to Call for 'Tax Cuts 2.0'



> It's time for President Donald Trump to call for "tax cuts 2.0" for his second term in office and to lay out a plan to help Americans keep more of their money, Stephen Moore, a former economic advisor to the president and a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, said Monday.
> 
> "The tax plan that we passed in 2017 has been a phenomenal success," Moore told Fox News' "Fox and Friends." "We have the best economy in the world today. We have 7 million surplus jobs. Incomes are up by about $5,000 for middle-class families, plus the $2,000 tax cut that middle-class families with children receive, It was a big deal. And I cringe when I hear Democrats say the first thing they would do is repeal that tax cut."


Some of the ideas raise questions, but interesting nonetheless.


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

Trump To Designate Mexican Drug Cartels As Terrorist Groups



> BBC;
> 
> The US will legally designate Mexican drug cartels as terrorist groups, President Donald Trump says.
> 
> The move would enable a wider scope of US action. Mr Trump also said he had told Mexico the US was ready to “go in and clear out” the cartels.
> 
> In response Mexico’s foreign minister said his country would not allow any “violation of national sovereignty”.​
> *Maybe Mexico should build a wall.*


Bold mine.

<snort>


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Trump To Designate Mexican Drug Cartels As Terrorist Groups
> 
> Bold mine.
> 
> <snort>


I notice he's not saying boo about the worlds largest, most dangerous and well funded terrorist organization. That would be the IRS. The CIA, Moßad, FBI etc are distant seconds.


----------



## FeXL

Little Brian Stelter: Say, Now That Our Newest Coup Attempts Are Failing, Maybe It's Time to Dust Off Our First Coup Plan, Invoking the 25th Amendment



> You're not supposed to bat around the whole lineup if you keep striking out.
> 
> Yesterday, CNN announced that, with Russia Hoax 2.0 failing, they were going back to Russia Hoax 1.0-- claiming that Trump lied to Mueller or something.
> 
> Something Mueller himself was unable to establish.
> 
> Now they're going back ever further into the lineup.
> 
> Now they're trotting out the _25th Amendment coup_ plan again.


More:



> I’m worried about Eric Swalwell’s colon.
> — Sgt. Joe Friday (@bitemeMannix) November 19, 2019


Yep.


----------



## FeXL

Barr drives left even crazier



> _Attorney General Barr delivered the 19th Annual Barbara K. Olson Memorial Lecture at the Federalist Society’s 2019 National Lawyers Convention in Washington on Friday. The Department of Justice has posted the text here. I have omitted emphases, corrected a few typographical errors (not all the corrections are indicated), and posted the full text below. I have also posted video of the speech below the text (about 60 minutes).
> 
> The speech is long — 6,000 words long. One can measure the excellence of the speech by the apoplexy it has induced among the lunatic left. They are intoxicated with impeachment mania. Insofar as Barr articulates a true understanding of “the Resistance” and a profound critique of the administrative state, Barr must be destroyed. I read the speech to reflect the true thoughts of a scholar and experience practitioner at the highest levels of government who feels free — and feels compelled — to speak his mind. Here it is: _





> Immediately after President Trump won election, opponents inaugurated what they called “The Resistance,” and they rallied around an explicit strategy of using every tool and maneuver available to sabotage the functioning of his Administration. Now, “resistance” is the language used to describe insurgency against rule imposed by an occupying military power. It obviously connotes that the government is not legitimate. This is a very dangerous – indeed incendiary – notion to import into the politics of a democratic republic. What it means is that, instead of viewing themselves as the “loyal opposition,” as opposing parties have done in the past, they essentially see themselves as engaged in a war to cripple, by any means necessary, a duly elected government.
> 
> A prime example of this is the Senate’s unprecedented abuse of the advice-and-consent process. The Senate is free to exercise that power to reject unqualified nominees, but that power was never intended to allow the Senate to systematically oppose and draw out the approval process for every appointee so as to prevent the President from building a functional government.
> 
> *Yet that is precisely what the Senate minority has done from his very first days in office. As of September of this year, the Senate had been forced to invoke cloture on 236 Trump nominees — each of those representing its own massive consumption of legislative time meant only to delay an inevitable confirmation. How many times was cloture invoked on nominees during President Obama’s first term? 17 times. The Second President Bush’s first term? Four times. It is reasonable to wonder whether a future President will actually be able to form a functioning administration if his or her party does not hold the Senate.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

What the right has been saying all along.

Exclusive–Kobach: Democrats Now ‘Say Out Loud’ Intent to Turn America Blue by Immigration



> Former Kansas Secretary of State and United States Senate candidate Kris Kobach says the political left is now quite honest about their longheld intent to turn the nation blue through mass legal immigration.
> 
> During an exclusive interview with host Alex Marlow on SiriusXM Patriot’s _Breitbart News Daily_, Kobach said in the past Democrats would only talk behind closed doors about their efforts to transform the nation state-by-state through immigration, but that today they are honest about the plan.


----------



## FeXL

FBI Uncovers Even More Clinton Emails



> The government malfeasance in the Clinton email scandal is seeming never-ending.
> 
> The State Department just confessed to a court that FBI found more Clinton emails that were then Turned over to State for review. In the November 15, 2019 filing, the State Department informed the court that the FBI located additional Clinton emails that potentially had not been previously released:
> 
> [T]he Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”) recently sent [the State Department] additional documents as part of the ongoing inter-agency consultation process in connection with other FOIA litigation. [The State Department] is working to determine whether that set of documents includes any responsive, non-duplicative agency records that have not already been processed. [The State Department] will promptly update [Judicial Watch] and the Court once that initial review is complete.​


Can't wait to read all those yoga routines & ol' family recipes...


----------



## FeXL

<sniff> :-(

Kamala Harris Dropping Out of Presidential Race to Spend More Time With Her White Wine Spritzer and Vibrator



> NEWS - Kamala Harris is dropping out of the presidential election today, I'm told reliably. She's informing staff now.
> 
> Harris came into the race with the highest expectations on her, and the biggest entry into the race with 22,000 people at her rally in Oakland at the end of January - but had struggled with internal fighting and money that had almost completely dried up recently
> 
> 
> Between Harris and O'Rourke, the candidates who entered with the most fanfare around them, in the end became two of the earliest to quit​
> She was down to just 2% in the latest Hill poll, and was unlikely to qualify for the next debate.


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

Oh, That Bloomberg Media!



> Scott Adams – _Aaaand he’s done. Trump just handed Bloomberg two ways to lose and no ways to win. Signature move._
> 
> Trump's campaign announces it will no longer allow reporters from Bloomberg News to obtain credentials to cover Trump campaign events.
> Bloomberg news has granted immunity from investigation to all Democrats including Michael Bloomberg.https://t.co/KaLjRqTGEf
> 
> — Rising serpent (@rising_serpent) December 2, 2019​


----------



## CubaMark

*Related: *Why world leaders seemingly joking about Donald Trump will drive the President crazy


----------



## Macfury

Says Don Lemon, the laughing stock of his failing news network!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Says Don Lemon, the laughing stock of his failing news network!


Black, gay & a lefty.

That's the trifecta to Progs!


----------



## FeXL

Hillary Clinton Says She’s ‘Deluged’ With Requests to Run in 2020



> Hillary Clinton says she’s “deluged” with requests to run for the presidency for the third time and declined to rule out a bid for 2020.
> 
> Clinton, 72, ran twice, losing in the general election to President Donald Trump in 2016 and in the Democratic primary to former President Barack Obama in 2008.
> 
> Appearing on a BBC show last week, Clinton said she was going to “have to make up my mind really quickly” if she was going to join the 2020 race. Several state filing deadlines have already passed, including New Hampshire.
> 
> “The rumor mill is flying that you could step back into the ring,” host Graham Norton told Clinton.
> 
> “I hear that. I have been deluged the last few weeks with thinking about doing that, but right now I’m not at all planning that,” she replied.
> 
> Asked to rule out a bid, she said, “As I say, never, never, never say never.”


_Very_ related:


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Says Don Lemon, the laughing stock of his failing news network!


Or, you know, *TREVOR NOAH* of Comedy Central's _The Daily Show_.

I mean... it's right there, watermarked on the image..... :lmao:



s'okay... I know they all look alike to some folks....


----------



## CubaMark

CubaMark said:


> Or, you know, *TREVOR NOAH* of Comedy Central's _The Daily Show_.
> 
> 
> 
> s'okay... I know they all look alike to some folks....


----------



## Macfury

They really do look alike! and Trevor Noah is just as big a misfire as Lemon!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Says Don Lemon, the laughing stock of his failing news network!




Don Lemon? Seriously?


----------



## Macfury

I know, l know... to slavish progs like you, these guys are royalty!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Don Lemon? Seriously?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I know, l know... to slavish progs like you, these guys are royalty!




No; I just don’t think they look the same.


----------



## Macfury

Don Lemon does.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No; I just don’t think they look the same.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Don Lemon does.




You’ll say anything to excuse yourself. Anything except admitting you made a mistake, that is.


----------



## Macfury

Who should I be admitting anything to?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’ll say anything to excuse yourself. Anything except admitting you made a mistake, that is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who should I be admitting anything to?




How about the members of this forum who read your posts. How about Cubamark. Unless, of course, you feel you’re above apologizing for misidentifying a black man.


----------



## Macfury

Not recognizing a third-rate talk show host doesn't require an apology.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Unless, of course, you feel you’re above apologizing for misidentifying a black man.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Not recognizing a third-rate talk show host doesn't require an apology.




Must be nice to be flawless.


----------



## SINC

Yikes!


----------



## SINC

A Theory for Why Trump’s Base Won’t Budge

The president has followed the predictable course for narcissism in one way, alienating many who have served in his administration, and defied expectations in another, by continuing to attract an adoring core.

An interesting read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/how-narcissists-wear-out-their-welcome/602446/


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> A Theory for Why Trump’s Base Won’t Budge
> 
> The president has followed the predictable course for narcissism in one way, alienating many who have served in his administration, and defied expectations in another, by continuing to attract an adoring core.
> 
> An interesting read:
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/how-narcissists-wear-out-their-welcome/602446/


I think the article gets it all wrong. Trump's support remains high because he's all that stands in the way of full, raging progressivism. The coastal elites (including the writers at the Atlantic) can't understand why the majority of Americans won't embrace socialism.


----------



## CubaMark

Jeez, talk about snowflakes... US can't handle a little criticism, so a NATO event is cancelled.

Gee, where have we seen this before?

Oh, yeah.... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Why should the U.S. pay for a critic to attend an event celebrating NATO's anniversary that it is sponsoring in its entirety? 



CubaMark said:


> Jeez, talk about snowflakes... US can't handle a little criticism, so a NATO event is cancelled.


----------



## CubaMark

*What kind of wacky tabacky is this guy smoking?*

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGChTEfeeC4[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

Do you understand the perverse results of water effiiciency standards CM? Can you do better than this?


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> *What kind of wacky tabacky is this guy smoking?*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGChTEfeeC4


Not sure what the issue is here. First thing I did with my new shower head was to remove the flow restrictor. Of course Goreshippers are not allowed to take showers anyways so they really have no stake in shower flows. However those of us who understand basic math have no reason to forego a proper shower.

Have not hooked up the bathroom sink tap as yet, but if the flow is weak I will certainly remove that restrictor as well. I fill the sink to shave so the only difference is the amount of time it takes the sink to fill.

Thankfully American Standard seems to have finally gotten it right with their recent 5 Litre toilets, but if this one falls short of expectations I will happily put in a taller stand pipe to get an extra couple of Litres per flush.

Was way ahead of the game with the bathtub. Used 3/4 supply inch lines to the faucet and again removed the flow restrictors. Fills fairly quickly as long as I have the hot water tank set hot enough to mix in some cold as it fills. Again I fill the tub, so why deliberately make it painfully slow. This should not be an issue for even the most rabid Goreshipper as the pleasure of soaking a tired stiff body in a tub full of hot water is an ex-communicable sin.


----------



## FeXL

Sundown Joe Biden, Suffering From Rapid Cognitive Decline, Reassures His Worried Staffers That He'll Only Serve One Term as President



> *I can do you one better, Sundown Joe -- How about zero?*
> 
> In what is actually a hilarious report over at Politico, several aides to Joe Biden have been told by the former vice president that he's only in it for one term, or four years. If he's elected, he's "signaling" to them, he'll be happy to hand over the keys to the White House to his VP once his first (and only) term is up.​


Bold mine.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Mistakes Were Made: Ted Cruz Obliterates the FBI For Willful, Deliberate Forging of Evidence, Frauds on the Court, and Framing An Innocent Man Serving as a Source for the CIA as a _Traitor_



> Acrually, he just repeated what was in the report, which Sean Davis and Mollie Hemingway already wrote about a day or two ago.
> 
> But we know that most people in the _media do not read, *ever,*_ and so Ted Cruz's televised interrogation is probably the first time they've heard these facts.
> 
> Cruz noted two _deliberate_ frauds -- perjuries -- obstructions of justice -- perpetrated on the FISA court.


----------



## FeXL

It's a start.

ICE Deports Over Quarter of a Million Illegals, 5.5K Gang Members in 2019



> The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency deported more than a quarter of a million illegal aliens from the United States in Fiscal Year 2019, including roughly 5,500 gang members.
> 
> Between September 2018 and October 2019, ICE agents deported about 267,258 illegal aliens from the U.S. — a more than four percent increase compared to 2018 and a nearly 20 percent increase compared to 2017 deportation levels.
> 
> This year, about 85,958 of those illegal aliens were deported from the interior of the U.S., while the other more than 181,000 illegal aliens were deported after arriving at the southern border.


----------



## Macfury

Watching Don Lemon get triggered over this Trump video shows just how badly the grim and dour left is getting beaten by enthusiasm and success:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Watching Don Lemon get triggered over this Trump video...


It's actually Don _Le-Mon_, with the accent on the second syllable...


----------



## FeXL

Cowbell: Stock Market Surges After Yuge Jobs Report



> Gotta have more cowbell.
> 
> Stocks surged on Friday on the back of U.S. jobs growth that easily topped analyst expectations as Wall Street wrapped up a choppy week of trading.
> 
> ...
> 
> The U.S. economy added 266,000 jobs in November, according to figures released by the Labor Department. Economists polled by Dow Jones expected a gain of 187,000. The unemployment rate fell to 3.5%, matching its lowest level since 1969.​


But, but, but...SOCIALISM!!!


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> But, but, but...SOCIALISM!!!


Socialism provides money without creating jobs... until it doesn't.


----------



## FeXL

D'oh!

Democratic impeachment holdout Jeff Van Drew planning to switch parties



> *Rep. Jeff Van Drew, a moderate Democrat who is strongly opposed to impeaching President Donald Trump, is expected to switch parties and become a Republican*, according to multiple sources familiar with the situation.
> 
> Van Drew is one of two Democrats who voted against opening the impeachment inquiry into Trump and has remained against the effort, even as the House prepares to vote to impeach the president next week. Van Drew's decision comes after a meeting with Trump on Friday.


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL

That's going to look good on the campaign trail.

Bloomberg Media acquires CityLab as The Atlantic slashes staff



> Following news earlier this week announcing the sale of urban design innovation vertical _CityLab_ to Bloomberg Media by _The Atlantic_, news reports today indicate that the publication's entire staff has been laid off.


----------



## SINC

The other side of one-sided news.

*When The Villain Is Obama, Not Trump, News Suddenly Becomes Not Worth Reporting*



> So the United States has “the world’s highest rate of children in detention.” Is this worth reporting? Maybe, maybe not. Nevertheless, Agence France-Presse, or AFP, and Reuters did report it, attributing the information to a “United Nations study” on migrant children detained at the US-Mexico border.
> 
> Then the two agencies retracted the story. Deleted, withdrew, demolished. If they could have used one of those Men in Black memory-zappers on us, they would have. Sheepishly, the two news organizations explained that, you see, the UN data was from 2015 — part of a border crackdown that had begun years earlier.
> 
> We all know who the president was in 2015. It wasn’t evil, child-caging monster President Trump. It was that nice, compassionate, child-caging monster President Barack Obama.
> 
> Zap. The story made Obama look bad. Hence the story was removed. Not updated or corrected, removed.
> 
> I know it’s a heavy news environment. Who can keep up? But try to remember this one, because it’s instructive. People think news organizations flat-out fabricate stories. That isn’t often the case. Fake news is a problem that pops up here and there, but the much more systematic and deeply entrenched attack on truth is the casual, everyday bias of reporters.
> 
> AFP and Reuters deleted a story that was, in a narrow sense, true — that a UN study claimed the United States had some 100,000 children in migrant-related detention. The United Nations is horribly biased against America and the West. Still, on the level of lazy, news-release-driven journalism, the locked-up-kids story was minimally valid.
> 
> At any rate, what the agencies didn’t seem to like was the story’s changed implication: That Obama, rather than Trump, locked up a lot of children. This is what’s important: Not that AFP and Reuters deleted a story, but that the implication of the story meant everything to them.
> 
> Every time you read something from AFP and Reuters (and CNN and the Washington Post), you should be thinking not “This is fake news” but: “What’s the agenda?” To paraphrase Chuck Schumer’s infamous, and instructive, comment on the CIA, news outlets have six ways from Sunday of getting you to think what they want you to think, none of which involve making up stuff.
> 
> One is simply not reporting things. News that isn’t mentioned didn’t really happen to that outlet’s consumers. Obama’s approval ratings were mostly really low, comparable to Trump’s, typically in the low to mid-40s. Polls would come out saying this, and the Ron Burgundys would simply not report it.
> 
> Using, or ignoring, facts in accordance with whether they create the desired impression is the principal agenda of today’s media.
> 
> Trump doesn’t enjoy this courtesy. Nor can he be associated with good news. A recent Newsbusters survey found that, over a recent six-week period, not even 1 percent of network news reporting on the Trump administration even mentioned positive economic news.
> 
> Another trick is soberly reporting the policy proposals of Politician One but focusing entirely on the miscues and petty controversies of Politician Two. You might, if you are a news consumer, be under the impression that Sen. Elizabeth Warren has a sober, well-reasoned set of plans. These plans are, however, so far-fetched as to be breathtaking. She has vowed $20.5 trillion in new federal spending, an increase of 40 percent on top of current levels. Yet Warren isn’t the candidate the media habitually portray as unhinged.
> 
> Meanwhile, the gaffes of Democrats attract very little interest; network news basically ignored the mini-scandal involving Pete Buttigieg, who promoted a list of black supporters, many of whom either were not black or did not support him. The networks declined to cast Buttigieg as racially insensitive.
> 
> Still another trick is deciding that a matter that advances the wrong narrative is simply “local news,” hence not worthy of attention from the major outlets. Any crimes committed by illegal immigrants can be safely ignored by CNN, but any crimes associated with right-wingers become cause for national dismay and soul searching.
> 
> CNN did a massive story this week involving the talents of five reporters after someone at Syracuse University sent out a white supremacist manifesto to “several” cellphones and racist graffiti was discovered in a residence hall. Previously, similar outbreaks of campus fear turned out to be based on hoaxes. Yet if this story dissolves, CNN can accurately claim, hey, we were just reporting that students were scared.
> 
> The impression created by a thousand stories like this — that America in 2019 is a white supremacist nightmare — will linger all the same. Using, or ignoring, facts in accordance with whether they create the desired impression is the principal agenda of today’s media.


https://nypost.com/2019/11/20/when-...plX5KnKQpPgIv5Z0Wuj7sXNUVUU6SwiwpmRjd6ohA17Tk


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> The other side of one-sided news.


This is how Freddie and CM report the world here.


----------



## FeXL

Comey finds religion.

Comey: ‘I Was Wrong’ — FBI’s FISA Abuse ‘Was Not Acceptable’



> On this week’s broadcast of “Fox News Sunday,” former FBI Director James Comey said that the Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s report on the launch of the FBI’s Russia probe’s use of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) was unacceptable.


Chris Wallace Shreds Disgraced Former FBI Director James Comey In ‘Devastating’ Interview



> Fox News host Chris Wallace aggressively questioned disgraced former FBI Director James Comey on Sunday over Justice Department inspector general Michael Horowitz’s report on the FBI’s misconduct in surveilling the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, which happened under Comey’s leadership.


More:



> Perhaps the most shocking part about the interview was when Comey said that he would not resign as FBI Director over the IG report because there was worse misconduct happening under his leadership:
> 
> *“If you were still there and all of this came out, and it turned out it happened on your watch, would you resign?” Wallace asked.
> 
> “No. I don’t think so,” Comey responded. “There are mistakes I consider more consequential than this during my tenure.”*


Bold mine.

The mind boggles.

Related:

Donald Trump Demands Apology After James Comey Admits ‘I Was Wrong’



> President Donald Trump again challenged James Comey on Sunday, demanding an apology from the former FBI Director after he admitted he “was wrong” to defend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant for the surveillance of former Trump foreign-policy adviser Carter Page.
> 
> “Sure, I’m responsible, that’s why I’m telling you, I was wrong,” Comey told Fox News host Chris Wallace in an interview. “I was overconfident as the director in our procedures. *And it’s important that a leader be accountable and transparent.*”


Bold mine.

The iron. His intentions were _very_ transparent. Crystal clear, I would say...


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> In a stunning rebuke of @Comey, the FISA Court calls out the FBI director for fraud that occurred under his leadership. pic.twitter.com/FpbpLPeDfG
> 
> — Mike Cernovich (@Cernovich) December 17, 2019​
> More here.
> 
> The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable.​
> *Well, finally.*


Bold mine.

Yeppers...


----------



## FeXL

Mitch McConnell to Schumer: It's Not the Senate's Job to "Scramble" and "Search Desperately" to Make a Case That Adam Schiff Was Too "Slapdash" to Make Himself



> I keep asking: If Schumer finds the House's case unpersuasive -- as he must, as he's saying it would be "unfair" to hold a trial based on so thin and empty a record -- why doesn't he just call up Pelosi, Nadler, and Schiff and ask _them_ to hold off on impeachment until _they've_ called these "key witnesses"?
> 
> The answer is, of course, that they want the matter out of the House as soon as possible, so that red state Democrats voting for impeachment have enough time to go back home and lie to the people they supposedly represent. They think it's safer for the Senate to handle this, politically.
> 
> *But that's not how the Constitution has set up impeachment, McConnnell chides Schumer, pointing out that Schumer misquotes the very Constitution he relies upon.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Say what? Now that a Senate impeachment trial looks imminent, Dems and NeverTrumpers demand McConnell ‘be fair’



> We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: To be a Democrat, you have to lack the ‘hypocrisy gene’ because the Garbage Party exists as walking, talking examples of deceit and dishonesty.
> 
> House Democrats who have been ‘managing’ the impeachment hearings against President Donald Trump have broken rules, violated standards, shunned decorum, and, more importantly, prevented minority Republicans from engaging in a fair process.
> 
> The GOP couldn’t call witnesses. Proceedings were largely held in secret. Democrats could not find a single fact witness to testify to misdeeds by President Trump in his dealings with Ukraine. Etc.
> 
> *But now, suddenly, after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Friday announced he would be following the “lead” of the president’s attorney in any upcoming trial, Democrats and NeverTrumpers are gnashing their teeth and demanding fairness, by god!*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

lol: Trump Ahead of All Democrats In Another National Poll



> lol. lol. lol.
> 
> #NEW National General Election:
> 
> Trump 44 (+3)
> Biden 41
> 
> Trump 44 (+5)
> Sanders 39
> 
> Trump 45 (+8)
> Warren 37
> 
> Trump 43 (+9)
> Bloomberg 34
> 
> Trump 43 (+10)
> Buttigieg 33
> 
> Suffolk University/USA Today Poll https://t.co/UMEwcYkoEu
> — Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) December 17, 2019​
> *This is delicious.*
> 
> The poll is of _registered_ voters, which has generally been thought to be a more Democrat-leaning sample than one of likely voters.


Bold mine.

Why, yes. Yes, it is...


----------



## FeXL

Alert the Twitter Invalids & Girlyboy Slapdicks: Trump Said Something For Them to Seethe About!!!



> Gee, I wonder what the Clownshow Nonsense Network will spazz out about for the next 48-72 hours.
> 
> President Trump, in a blistering, no-holds-barred six-page letter Tuesday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., lambasted the Democrats' impeachment inquiry as an "open war on American Democracy," writing that she has violated her oath of office and "cheapened the importance of the very ugly word, impeachment!"
> 
> "Everyone, you included, knows what is really happening," Trump said, just a day before House Democrats were expected to vote to impeach him. "*Your chosen candidate lost the election in 2016, in an Electoral College landslide (306-227), and you and your party have never recovered from this defeat. So you have spent three straight years attempting to overturn the will of the American people and nullify their votes. You view democracy as your enemy!"*​


Bold mine.

Related:

Ocasio-Cortez: Republicans Call Election Losses Illegitimate



> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.) said during a recent town hall that Republicans regularly call any election loss "illegitimate."
> 
> Ocasio-Cortez said during her appearance last weekend that Republicans were routinely denying election results, which she called a hallmark of "tyranny." A number of prominent members of her own party have said that fraud and cheating marred, or even invalidated, Democrats' recent gubernatorial losses in Georgia and Florida, as well as Hillary Clinton's defeat in the 2016 presidential election.
> 
> "It's quite tragic and it's very sad that it's devolved to the point that any election they lose is illegitimate, and any election they win means they can govern with impunity," Ocasio-Cortez said. "That is almost the definition or one of the hallmark aspects of authoritarianism."


The iron...

Related, too:


----------



## CubaMark

*Facebook Removes Accounts With AI-Generated Profile Photos
Researchers said it appears to be the first use of artificial intelligence to support an inauthentic social media campaign.*

Facebook on Friday removed what it called a global network of more than 900 accounts, pages, and groups from its platform and Instagram that allegedly used deceptive practices to push pro-Trump narratives to about 55 million users. The network used fake accounts, artificial amplification, and, notably, profile photos of fake faces generated using artificial intelligence to spread polarizing, predominantly right-wing content around the web, including on Twitter and YouTube.

* * *​
A report by Graphika and DFRLab researchers, found that the majority of The BL network’s fake accounts were used to maintain a cluster of over 80 groups and pages promoting President Trump. The accounts acting as administrators for these pages—which boasted names such as “America Needs President Trump,” “Trump for America’s President,” and “WE STAND WITH TRUMP & PENCE!”—were predominantly fake and created in Vietnam.

“Fake accounts served as the administrators of Facebook groups, increased the membership numbers of those groups, liked posts on the Pages, and posted large quantities of content from TheBL-related assets,” the report notes. “This structure constituted a large-scale artificial amplification factory whose only observable function was to boost content from TheBL and, to a lesser extent, from the Epoch Times.”

(Wired)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Facebook Removes Accounts With AI-Generated Profile Photos
> 
> Researchers said it appears to be the first use of artificial intelligence to support an inauthentic social media campaign.*
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook on Friday removed what it called a global network of more than 900 accounts, pages, and groups from its platform and Instagram that allegedly used deceptive practices to push pro-Trump narratives to about 55 million users. The network used fake accounts, artificial amplification, and, notably, profile photos of fake faces generated using artificial intelligence to spread polarizing, predominantly right-wing content around the web, including on Twitter and YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> A report by Graphika and DFRLab researchers, found that the majority of The BL network’s fake accounts were used to maintain a cluster of over 80 groups and pages promoting President Trump. The accounts acting as administrators for these pages—which boasted names such as “America Needs President Trump,” “Trump for America’s President,” and “WE STAND WITH TRUMP & PENCE!”—were predominantly fake and created in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> “Fake accounts served as the administrators of Facebook groups, increased the membership numbers of those groups, liked posts on the Pages, and posted large quantities of content from TheBL-related assets,” the report notes. “This structure constituted a large-scale artificial amplification factory whose only observable function was to boost content from TheBL and, to a lesser extent, from the Epoch Times.”
> 
> 
> 
> (Wired)​




I suppose it makes sense with the Trump word view: after fake news comes fake people.


----------



## Macfury

So both fake news and fake people are a real phenomenon?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I suppose it makes sense with the Trump word view: after fake news comes fake people.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> So both fake news and fake people are a real phenomenon?


Of course!

The issue lies with appropriation. Trump and his legion of slack-jawed followers use "fake news" to describe any aspect of reality that doesn't serve his interests or present him in the best light.

And those who (baaaa! baaaa!) follow him, compare him to Christ, that short of idiocy, just keep on perpetuating the idiocy.


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Of course!
> 
> The issue lies with appropriation. Trump and his legion of slack-jawed followers use "fake news" to describe any aspect of reality that doesn't serve his interests or present him in the best light.
> 
> And those who (baaaa! baaaa!) follow him, compare him to Christ, that short of idiocy, just keep on perpetuating the idiocy.


Having watched the Democryptic machinations over the past few years, one cannot ignore the possibility that the entire thing is a Democryptic plot.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

The iron...

‘The Organic Side, to Me, Is Scarier Than the Ad Side’



> Until literally a few days before, this entire ad sales team at Facebook was literally telling every politician with any budget that Facebook can actually hand them the election. It is incredibly disingenuous and strange for an exec to get up and say that there’s no way Facebook could have potentially impacted the election.





CubaMark said:


> Trump and his legion of slack-jawed followers use "fake news" to describe any aspect of reality that doesn't serve his interests or present him in the best light.


----------



## FeXL

The Morning Rant



> "So, based on last night's debate, who would you vote for?
> 
> --A senile half-wit socialist who yells at clouds?
> 
> --A senile half-wit socialist who frightens small children?
> 
> --A busybody New England socialist who has declared war on American energy production?
> 
> --A Minnesota socialist who basically supports any progressive issue she's told to?
> 
> --A sanctimonious Christian socialist who only believes those parts of the Bible that don't apply to him.
> 
> --A billionaire socialist who basically bought his spot in the debate?
> 
> --A wacky socialist businessman who wants to give everybody free money?
> 
> Oh, and did anybody see any American flags at the debate? I mean, this being an American election and all, I would expect that there would be at least one. And especially since they Dems are all 'yay America' now. It's like they don't know how to do the whole patriotism thing right. It's a foreign language to them."


Related:

_Obama'_s Former Doctor: No, Joe Biden Isn't a "Healthy" Guy. He's a Stroke Risk.



> Earlier this week, Karen Townsend wrote that Biden's doctor had revealed that Biden had heart disease -- something that wasn't widely known, and certainly hasn't been trumpeted by the same media that obsesses over Trump's "12 CANS OF DIET COKE PER DAY!" and "TWO SCOOPS!"
> 
> Biden has a heart condition -- but _shhhh_. The voters mustn't know that.


----------



## FeXL

Mitch McConnell slams ‘most rushed, least thorough and most unfair’ impeachment inquiry



> Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Thursday slammed President Trump’s impeachment as the “most rushed, least thorough and most unfair” in modern history — and accused Democrats of being “too afraid” to send their “shoddy work” to the Senate for trial.
> 
> The Republican leader took to the Senate floor to lay into Wednesday’s historic vote, calling it the “first purely partisan presidential impeachment since the wake of the civil war.”


----------



## Macfury

https://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/

Yup.




CubaMark said:


> And those who (baaaa! baaaa!) follow him,... compare him to Christ[/URL], that short of idiocy, just keep on perpetuating the idiocy.


----------



## Beej

Trump Supports Impeachment, Forcing Democrats To Oppose
https://babylonbee.com/news/in-genius-move-trump-supports-impeachment-forcing-democrats-to-oppose-it



> Democrats quickly condemned his statements. Pelosi said, "It's clear that Trump wants to be impeached because he's not good at being president. Well, we're going to show him a thing or two by forcing him to stay in the White House and finish out his term."
> 
> "And Joker is alt-right propaganda," she said, falling for Trump's ploy to make Dems condemn one of the most successful, beloved films of the year.
> 
> One pundit on CNN suggested that Trump is supporting impeachment at the request of Putin or the guy from Ukraine or "whichever conspiracy thing we're pushing this month, I forget."


We're gradually getting to that point.


----------



## FeXL

Mark Levin eviscerates Nancy Pelosi over her latest impeachment power play: ‘This is what the fascists do’



> Thursday night on the radio, LevinTV host Mark Levin criticized House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., for her decision to hold off on sending impeachment articles over to the Senate.
> 
> Just after the House’s votes the night before on two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t commit to sending the articles to the upper chamber right away and said she would instead wait to see what the Senate trial process might look like. Thursday morning on Twitter, Levin called the delay “another brazen unconstitutional act.”
> 
> 1. Nancy Pelosi was apparently advised by leftwing Harvard law professor Lawrence Tribe to delay sending the impeachment to the Senate. So she’s unilaterally sitting on the impeachment. This is another brazen unconstitutional act.
> 
> — Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) December 19, 2019​
> In response to Pelosi’s actions, Levin also called on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to “immediately put an end to this and declare the impeachment null and void, as the speaker has failed to complete the impeachment process by timely sending it to the Senate for adjudication.”


Related:

And, w/ Trump being the miserable, hateful, unfit SOB that he is...

Two days after impeachment vote, Pelosi invites Trump to give 2020 State of the Union address



> Just a couple of days after the House of Representatives’ votes to impeach President Donald Trump, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., invited him to give his 2020 State of the Union address in early February.
> 
> In the very brief Friday letter inviting the president to give the annual update to Congress on how the country is doing, *Pelosi framed her invitation as one made out of duty to the Constitution and the federal system it lays out.*


Bold mine.

Curious, that...


----------



## FeXL

Damn that Trump!!!

Trump stock market rally is far outpacing past US presidents



> The S&P 500 has returned more than 50% since President Trump was elected, more than double the average market return of presidents three years into their term, according to Bespoke Investment Group.


Related:

Nasdaq Hits 9,000 for First Time Ever



> U.S. stocks surged higher Thursday as a year-end rally stoked by bullish economic news pushed the Nasdaq Composite index to 9,000 for the first time in its history.
> 
> The S&P 500 also posted a fresh all-time high at 3,235.46 in late morning trading while the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose about 77 points, reaching a peak of 28,596.22 before leveling off.


----------



## FeXL

ORANGEMANBAD!!!

Commerce Dept.: Companies Brought $1 Trillion Back to U.S. Under Trump Tax Cuts



> American companies have brought $1 trillion back to the United States since the passage of President Donald Trump’s tax cuts in 2017, according to new U.S. Department of Commerce data.


More:



> President Barack Obama had long decried the practice of companies shifting profits abroad, though he and his party proposed to add taxes and penalties to “unpatriotic” companies, rather than changing taxes and regulations to create new incentives to invest at home.


----------



## FeXL

Further on the above.

Economic News: Yuge. The Yugest.



> Women, Kurt hardest hit.
> 
> 
> The U.S. economy proved remarkably resilient in 2019, defying recession fears that dominated the headlines throughout the year. The economy has entered the longest expansion in American history, surpassing the economic boom of the 1990s.
> 
> United States consumers, buoyed by the strong labor market, have continued to drive economic growth during the past year against a backdrop of weak business sentiment.
> 
> Increased hiring and rising wages have powered consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of the U.S. economy. The stock market also rose steadily throughout the year, boosting household income and allowing people to spend more.​
> Although the economy slowed down some from 2018's great 3% growth rate, 2019 was marked by a global economic slowdown/recession, and the US "powered through" that, as they might say of Hillary Clinton having a seizure on the street.


----------



## FeXL

Shy Impeachment Syndrome



> When events take a turn for the bizarre — such as Nancy Pelosi’s sudden reluctance to send her impeachment articles to Senate trial — it’s often the signal of an unknown unknown. As predicted some days ago (though I didn’t link it at the time, but did take note) by @TheLastRefuge2;
> 
> 1) I don’t like gaming stuff out by thinking like this Lawfare crew, but…
> 
> 2) There is a possibility…
> 
> 3) This impeachment could be a disposable first step.
> Call it impeachment 1.0
> 
> 4) They use this impeachment to get the judicial authority to penetrate the constitutional firewall.
> 
> A pending senate trial gives them an argument in court for their pre-existing cases.
> 5) The real goal of impeachment 1.0 is the evidence they seek. (1) Mueller 6e material. (2) McGahn as a witness. and (3) the financials/taxes.​
> And that looks to be bang on.
> 
> BREAKING: House Argues in Court Filing Don McGahn Testimony Needed for Impeachment Evidence…​
> And that’s why Nancy stammers.
> 
> the best speech by Pelosi about Impeachment #USA #Trump #FoxNews pic.twitter.com/jojdFYT47Q
> 
> — ✡ ((( Jose Blom ))) ✡ (@JoseBlom5) December 20, 2019​
> She didn’t hatch the plan, isn’t in control of it, and thus hasn’t the knowledge or confidence required to lie convincingly.


Related:

Granny Nasty McBotoxRictus: I'm So Proud of Our Fake Impeachment I'm Scolding the Press Not to Ask About It, and I'm Obstructing it from Going to Trial



> This is insane.
> 
> From Sean Davis and Mollie Hemingway, six reasons this "we're going to sit our fat old asses on our impeachment charges" gambit is a disaster.
> 
> *1) After impeaching Trump for supposed obstruction of House, Pelosi moves to obstruct the Senate*
> 
> Pelosi said she’ll wait to send over the articles until she finds out how the Senate will conduct the trial, which looks a lot like obstructing the Senate, given that the Constitution clearly states that the Senate has “the sole power to try all _mpeachments.” The Constitutional process for impeachment is that the House impeaches and the Senate holds a trial to test the quality of the accusations and the guilt or innocence of the accused. Pelosi apparently wants to control the Senate process from her perch in the House, a power grab that looks a lot like an abuse of power.
> 
> 
> What’s crazy about this is that one of the articles of impeachment against the President is that he must be removed from office for the “obstruction of Congress” by asserting his privilege and protecting executive branch communications. If Trump, asserting constitutional privilege as the head of the executive branch, has to be quickly removed from office because he’s not providing a single chamber of Congress what it wants, Pelosi is obstructing the Senate by asserting a privilege to not formally transmit the articles of impeachment to the Senate for trial, and abusing her power by demanding authority that under the Constitution belongs to the Senate, not the Speaker of the House._​


----------



## FeXL

D'oh!!!

Trump Shares Report Alleging Pelosi's Son Involved in Ukraine Corruption



> President Donald Trump has shared a video report that implies Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s son, Paul Pelosi Jr., is involved in Hunter Biden-style corruption in Ukraine.
> 
> The video makes similar allegations to those against former Vice President Joe Biden‘s son, Hunter, accusing Paul Pelosi of profiting from his mother’s position in the US Government by sitting on the board of a Ukrainian energy company.


----------



## FeXL

Truly a shame...

AOC to Lose Her Congressional District After 2020 Census?



> Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez may be a rising star in the Democratic Party, but the district she represents could potentially not exist following the 2020 Census since New York is expected to lose as many as two House seats.
> 
> According to The City, nearly 47 percent of her district is foreign-born, and more than a quarter are not citizens—both are segments of the population that are often underrepresented in the census due to concerns of taking part in an official government count, and her district has a higher percentage than any other district. This could mean that her district could be divided up in reapportionment, meaning that she might have to face another incumbent to stay in Congress. Frank Luntz says that the state's Democrats are actually looking to "draw out" her district.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

Huh. More of Islam's finest charge the American Embassy at Baghdad. Only this time...

The UnBenghazi



> Looks like we might find out what the opposite of Benghazi looks like. #mowthelawn
> 
> — Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) December 31, 2019​
> Austere Religious Scholars are rioting because they’re sad.


The UnBenghazi



> Mourning is over.
> 
> Supporters of the Iran-backed militia have begun to withdraw from @USEmbBaghdad after US reinforcements arrive in the form of 100 Marines and Apache [email protected] announced 750 members of the 82nd Airborne will also be deployed to the region.https://t.co/vmIhKz2vUN
> 
> — Washington Examiner (@dcexaminer) January 1, 2020​
> Do tell.


From the comments:



> Joseph says:
> January 1, 2020 at 12:09 pm
> 
> Love to have been a fly on the wall at the mansion in the Hampton’s when she heard how Trump described it as not becoming another Benghazi.


Yeppers.

Related:

The guy who brought us...



> ...the butchery at Benghazi...
> 
> _ The Obama bigfoots have good reason to lay low. *The U.S. embassy in Iraq was attacked by one of the people they'd tried to coddle earlier, back in 2011, Hadi Farhan al-Amiri •* a guy so bad even a former FBI director, Louis Freeh, spoke out against letting the guy in at the time.
> 
> It's not like this guy pretended to be a friend and then went bad on them. *They knew. And they let him in, giving him lots of clout back home* from which he was able to draw new terrorist resources, since terrorism was what he did._​


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL

HARSH, BUT FAIR



> So apparently the USA CAN send troops when an embassy is in jeopardy. That might have been useful knowledge a few years back.


Who knew?


----------



## FeXL

Nice!!!

The Reshaping Of America Via The Courts Goes Both Ways, And It's Going The Right Way Now!



> We all knew this was happening, but it's still a lovely thing to see. The spittle-flecked Democrat congressmen with their high-visibility but impotent impeachment circus is nothing in comparison to a radical reallignment of our nation's courts.
> 
> Senate confirms avalanche of Trump-backed judges despite impeachment


----------



## FeXL

Interesting read from AoS ONT (Over Night Thread)



> How Four Pages Could Transform Health Care
> 
> 
> It's not all the way there yet, absolute price transparency is badly needed, but this would be a big boon for the health consumer. It wouldn't even necessarily drive ACA plans out of business. Because of the perverse incentives in the system, insurance companies that accept high risk clients can actually make more profit than those who traditionally underwrite for risk. (How's that, you ask? *Well, Obamacare has something called a MLR - minimum loss ratio. Purportedly designed to “reign in” those “greedy” insurance companies, in actuality it has proven to be a driver of the increase of medical costs. How? It's simple. MLR states that insurance companies MUST spend 80% of their gross revenue paying claims. The other 20% they can keep for costs and profit. It totally eliminates any incentive for the insurance company to try and keep costs down, the higher costs go (the 80%), the higher the 20% the insurance company gets to keep goes.* It's easy to see how insurance companies would come to love higher claims costs in this scenario. Now normally, premiums would serve as a check on this inflation – at some point people would just stop paying for policies that are super expensive because they are paying out such high claim rates – but Obamacare relies on transfer payments (subsidies) from the government to cover some or all of the premium costs. Joe Consumer doesn't care, subsidies mean that his premium costs are limited based upon his income. He's going to be paying (making all these numbers up) $200/month for his insurance, it doesn't matter to him if the actual cost of his plan is $500/ month or $1000/month. *The insurance company does care, the 20% they get to keep is twice as much in the later scenario, with Uncle Sucker making up the difference.* You think the govt cares that it's paying $800/month rather than $300/month? Not bloody likely.)


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Some guy did something...

The UnBenghazi



> Breaking.
> 
> Soleimani blown into chunks…hardest hit, @brhodes
> 
> — Kurt Schlichter (@KurtSchlichter) January 3, 2020​
> Details here;
> 
> An airstrike killed Gen. Qassem Soleimani, head of Iran’s elite Quds Force and architect of its regional security apparatus, at Baghdad’s international airport Friday, Iranian state television and three Iraqi officials said, an attack that’s expected to draw severe Iranian retaliation against Israel and American interests.
> 
> The strike also killed Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, deputy commander of Iran-backed militias in Iraq known as the Popular Mobilization Forces, or PMF, the officials said. The PMF media arm said the two were killed in an American airstrike that targeted their vehicle on the road to the airport.​
> I believe that’s called “sending a message”.
> 
> This may be the most significant strike since Osama bin Laden was killed. As Qods Force leader, Soleimani had his hands in every Shia-related insurgency and terror attack in the Middle East and beyond. Muhandis was deputy commander of Iraq's PMF, an official Iraqi govt unit. https://t.co/5slAyLwO40
> 
> — Bill Roggio (@billroggio) January 3, 2020
> 
> Life comes at you fast. pic.twitter.com/wSgoL3Om6z
> 
> — Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) January 3, 2020​
> The Iraqis seem happy. Oddly enough.
> 
> Iraqis are celebrating. You don’t need to know Arabic to understand what they’re saying: “Ding dong the witch is dead!” | pic.twitter.com/v0wPdNFb8P
> 
> — Mike (@Doranimated) January 3, 2020​


Comments knock it out of the park.

Related:

_US Forces Kill Qassem Soleimani, Leader of Iran's Terrorist Quds Forces_
UPDATE: ATTACK WAS PROMPTED BY TERRORIST THREAT THAT SULEIMANI HIMSELF WAS OVERSEEING



> The most powerful terrorist leader in the world is now dead.
> 
> I guess Trump wasn't bluffing.


----------



## eMacMan

Talk about total BS!
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-us-killed-top-210830908.html

The US assassinates a General who was in Iraq, by invitation, attending a funeral. The ass is not trying to prevent a war. He is hoping to provoke Iran into retaliating, then will use that as an excuse to declare war on Iran.

Sadly he will no doubt deliver the MICs Holy Grail of a devastated Iran. 

Of course this may be the point where Russia says enough is enough. At this point seeing DC and the Pentagon flattened and glowing in the dark would be a good thing were it not for the collateral damage.

OTOH that was one terrible dude they took out. Any man who does takes on the loyal US proxies ISIS, Al Queada and Al Nusra cannot be allowed to live.


----------



## macintosh doctor

just a reminder who iran is : 
either you are with them or against them.. choose.


----------



## FeXL

macintosh doctor said:


> just a reminder who iran is :
> either you are with them or against them.. choose.


H8ter!!! Islam is the Religion of Peace! How many people do they have to kill before you believe them?!


----------



## macintosh doctor

FeXL said:


> H8ter!!! Islam is the Religion of Peace! How many people do they have to kill before you believe them?!


hahahahaha... so glad you didn't call me Bigot. lol - that one should only be reserved for Mr Cuba


----------



## FeXL

Wait!!! I thought the Prog narrative was that there was no such thing as Islamic sleeper cells?

‘Sleeper cells inside the United States’: Senate Democrat fears how Iran will avenge Qassem Soleimani



> Iran could activate dormant terrorist networks within the United States in retaliation for the killing of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, according to a senior Senate Democrat.
> 
> “Iran has a series of proxy networks that are violent,” New Jersey Sen. Bob Menendez, the top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, said on MSNBC. “They can have sleeper cells inside the United States. It is possible for sympathizers and supporters of the Quds Force in Iran to attack here.”


----------



## FeXL

There's one born every minute. 

Russian pranksters strike again: Fake Greta Thunberg convinces eager US politician that she has dirt on Trump



> US Congresswoman Maxine Waters has allegedly fallen for a prank call in which she thought activist Greta Thunberg was offering her a tape of Donald Trump confessing to pressuring Ukraine into investigating his political rivals.
> 
> YouTube pranksters Vladimir Kuznetsov and Alexey Stolyarov, who go by the names Vovan and Lexus, are claiming they tricked Waters (Dem-Calif.) into thinking she was speaking to teen climate change activist Greta Thunberg.


----------



## FeXL

Considering all their mental illness, I'm not surprised.

“Transgenders” More Likely to Kill Than be Killed; Overrepresented Among Pedophiles



> It’s fairly well known that “transgenders” have a very high suicide rate, especially after undergoing so-called sex reassignment surgery. But barely known, and contrary to modern myth, is that they’re also more likely to commit murder than to be murdered, according to a recent report. In fact, the report finds that Made-up Sexual Status (MUSS, or “trans”) individuals are actually less likely to be homicide victims than normal people are.
> 
> As WND.com wrote Monday, “A new report documents how a … [MUSS individual] in Colorado and a partner shot nine students at their school, then later claimed the victims deserved it for their ‘transphobia.’”


----------



## Beej

A satirical solution to San Francisco's crappy problem.

San Francisco Dogs Begin Bagging People Poop
https://babylonbee.com/news/san-franciscos-dogs-begin-bagging-people-poop



> "It's incredibly rude what these humans do. They just see some rando's lawn and decide, 'Yeah, that's a good place to drop a deuce.' It's like, we're living in a society, here."


In reality, does SF more vigorously apply charges for dog or people poop on the streets? Maybe they are lax about all sources, with no species bias. Finally, equality with the cats!


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> Finally, equality with the cats!


At least the cats cover theirs up...


----------



## SINC

*Republican Congressman Shares Fake Image of Obama and Iranian President*

The image, shared on Twitter by Representative Paul Gosar of Arizona, is photoshopped and has been circulating online for years.



> FACT CHECK:
> 
> False. As lawmakers in Washington and allies around the world grappled with President Trump’s decision to launch a strike that killed Iran’s most important general, an Arizona Republican, Representative Paul Gosar, shared a fake image from his personal Twitter account on Monday purporting to show President Barack Obama shaking hands with President Hassan Rouhani of Iran. The two men have never met in person.
> 
> What’s more, Mr. Rouhani is still the president, contradicting Mr. Gosar’s suggestion that he is no longer “in power.” The Iranian flag in the background of the photoshopped image also appears to be incorrect, as it is missing the white Arabic script on its top green bar and a red emblem of a tulip in the central white bar.
> 
> The original photograph was taken in 2011 and showed Mr. Obama meeting with Manmohan Singh, then India’s prime minister.
> 
> “No one said this wasn’t photoshopped. No one said the president of Iran was dead. No one said Obama met with Rouhani in person,” Mr. Gosar tweeted after an outcry over his post, arguing that his point was that “Obama coddled, appeased, nurtured and protected the worlds No. 1 sponsor of terror.”
> The fake image has been circulating online since at least 2013, surfacing on Middle Eastern blogs and conservative websites. In 2015, it featured in a TV ad that promoted a Republican senator for his opposition to the Iran nuclear deal.
> 
> Curious about the accuracy of a claim? Email [email protected].


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/...pAlZVG9R5lEtk89gOO1wJDWLW7sgl4_XdGjW7CebUfNmI


----------



## SINC

*John Robson: Enough with the leftist hissy fits. Blowing up Soleimani was a no-brainer*



> This merciless bloodstained fanatic had been slaughtering Americans, Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians and anyone else he could reach for decades
> 
> The United States blew up a really evil terrorist and the left had a hissy fit. Ridiculous. But of all the criticisms that have rained down on Donald Trump, I think the most foolish is oh oh now you made them mad.
> 
> It wasn’t an easy call. Which is the most foolish, I mean. Blowing the guy up was a no-brainer. Qassem Soleimani was a merciless bloodstained fanatic who’d been slaughtering Americans, Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians and anyone else he could reach for decades. But NBC immediately trembled “Iran’s options for retaliation against the U.S. and Americans span the globe.”
> 
> Yaaaaaah! They’re coming for us. Likewise Maclean’s knee-jerked “The U.S. has gone rogue, and Canada may be caught in the crossfire.” See, our training mission in Iraq might shut down without U.S. logistical support. (Not that we’re self-absorbed.)


More here: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jo...hBOQ1ytwOVAnLPyt77bNT3KGdY#Echobox=1578395409


----------



## Macfury

You don't need a fake photo to document Obama's malfeasance regarding his Iran "deal".


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> *John Robson: Enough with the leftist hissy fits. Blowing up Soleimani was a no-brainer*
> 
> More here: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jo...hBOQ1ytwOVAnLPyt77bNT3KGdY#Echobox=1578395409


Sorry Don but as near as I can determine the only source of information that Soleimani was pure evil seems to be a former CIA director who openly brags about his ability to lie, steal, cheat and deceive.

What really irked the US deep state about Soleimani, was that he helped the Syrians drive Al Queada and ISIS all the way to Id Lib and was currently in Iraq helping Iraqi militia do the same to the terrorist scum that were threatening to over-run Iraq. The deep state was also very worried about improving relations between Iraq and Iran as evidenced by Soleimani being asked by Iraq to help explore a plan to reduce tensions between, Iraq, Iran and the Saudi's.

This was pure and simple an attempt to rid the region of someone who was making life impossible for the US proxies ISIS and Al Queada and hopefully provoke Iran to retaliate, thereby giving the US the excuse it craves to invade Iran.

So far the main effect has been a vote by the Iraqi parliament insisting the US get it's sorry a55 out of Iraq. Trump is of course demanding that should the US leave, Iraq must pay for the airport the US built after the US demolished the airport that Iraq had prior to the US invasion and occupation. 

Come to think of it that would be a good deal all around. With its oil revenues restored Iraq could easily pay off that airport and have enough left over to start rebuilding the country. Something that hasn't and clearly won't happen under US occupation. The US in turn could reduce it's annual budget by as much as a Trillion Dollars a year if it got out of the region.


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://youtu.be/uj01U8l35OI?t=123[/ame]


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

I thought you lived in Mexico.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I thought you lived in Mexico.


Right, because that's the important topic of discussion here....


----------



## Macfury

Your meme only works properly if you live in the U.S. There's no irony if you live elsewhere. 



CubaMark said:


> Right, because that's the important topic of discussion here....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your meme only works properly if you live in the U.S. There's no irony if you live elsewhere.




Right, because that’s the important topic of discussion here....


----------



## Macfury

You're not discussing anything, Freddie. You just pop in once in awhile to vent the sour gas of your Prog displeasure.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Right, because that’s the important topic of discussion here....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're not discussing anything, Freddie. You just pop in once in awhile to vent the sour gas of your Prog displeasure.




Again, whooosh.


----------



## Macfury

As I said, the "whoosh" of your sour gas.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, whooosh.


----------



## FeXL

President Trump addresses nation

From the comments:



> ward says:
> January 8, 2020 at 12:12 pm
> 
> Loved the fact Trump pointed out that the missiles that Iran used to attack the Americans on Iraq based bases were paid for by the money Obama sent over to the Mullahs, under the fake nuke deal.


Yeppers.


Related:

Ro Khanna Claims There Were No Embassy Protests Or Dead American Contractors Under Obama



> Democratic California Rep. Ro Khanna claimed Tuesday that there were no embassy protests or dead American contractors during the Obama administration.
> 
> Khanna appeared on Fox New’s “America’s Newsroom” and argued that President Donald Trump was out of line to suggest that former President Obama could have acted to stop terrorist leader Qasem Soleimani.


How quickly the Progs forget Bill's Wife & Benghazi...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

There were a lot of mangled words. What a drag it is getting old.

https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1214963825071607808?s=21


The truth is out there


----------



## Macfury

FeXL and I still have a lot of energy, so we'll be active while you take to the rocker.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There were a lot of mangled words. What a drag it is getting old.


----------



## FeXL

<snort> Have you listened to Uncle Joe lately?



Freddie_Biff said:


> There were a lot of mangled words.


----------



## Beej

An interesting post about Google's internal politics (as well as more important parts on how it deals with China). One bit jumped out as so over-the-top it could be a comedy skit.

The Google office version.
https://medium.com/@rossformaine/i-...ional-relations-here-s-why-i-left-49313d23065


> At a different all-hands meeting, the entire policy team was separated into various rooms and told to participate in a “diversity exercise” that placed me in a group labeled “homos” while participants shouted out stereotypes such as “effeminate” and “promiscuous.” Colleagues of color were forced to join groups called “Asians” and “Brown people” in other rooms nearby.



The Office version.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLp8pjqwlsc[/ame]

A slightly different version because the first didn't work when I checked.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePbipufCPYw[/ame]


----------



## FeXL

Let's talk Barry's Foreign Policy one more time!

Bush NSC Official Calls on Congress and Media to Look into Obama Admin’s Dealings with Soleimani



> A former Bush White House official is calling on congress and the media to look into the Obama administration’s former correspondence with deceased terrorist kingpin Qassem Soleimani. He also urged former senior members of the Obama administration to divulge all they know about the messages and agree to have them declassified.
> 
> Michael Doran, a senior director in President Bush’s National Security Council, declared on Twitter that he “must become a whistleblower” and reveal that “the Obama admin sent letters – plural – directly to Soleimani.”


More:



> *He went on to argue that if President Trump’s telephone conversation with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky required public scrutiny, “then surely we are justified in seeing the messages to Soleimani.”* Doran added: “Obama officials, we know, have nothing to hide. They say they’re proud of their Iran “containment” policy, so why would they pose any obstacle?”


Bold mine.

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!! We have a winnah!!!


----------



## FeXL

OrangeManBad!!!

Consumer Confidence Hit Highest Level in 19 Years



> For those keeping track, that would be the highest level since before Obama's and Bush's terms.
> 
> The only consumer confidence level higher than today's was at the very peak of the Clinton/Tech bubble.
> 
> Consumer confidence is the highest its been in nearly 20 years. And yet, *a recent MRC analysis showed that liberal media networks only gave President Donald Trump's economy less than one percent coverage on their evening newscasts over a period of 100 days.*
> 
> Bloomberg News reported Jan. 16 that "U.S. consumer confidence advanced last week to the highest level in more than 19 years" [emphasis added]. Also, The Wall Street Journal reported on Jan. 14 that "A healthy U.S. economy pushed up profits at America's biggest banks, allowing them to grow even though falling interest rates made lending less profitable." JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup were propelled to double-digit earnings growth in the final three months of 2019. "JPMorgan, the biggest U.S. bank by assets, reported its most profitable year on record," [emphasis added] according to The Journal.
> 
> Most profitable year on record? That's quite an assessment considering we were headed for economic doom, if you listened to the liberal media brouhaha about a recession in recent months.​
> Although the Democrats (by which I mean "the media") claim that the Trump Boom is only helping the 1%, that's a total lie. In fact, Trump's years are the only years since the eighties when low-income and working-class people have seen their own wages rise at a decent clip.
> 
> *Between November 2018 and November 2019, overall median wage growth climbed 3.6 percent, a healthy pace that should lift spirits, too. Those in the bottom 25 percent saw wages advance 4.5 percent, while the top 25 percent lagged, with pay rising just 2.9 percent. This is the 180-degree exact opposite of what Democrats relentlessly bellow. They have equal access to the Atlanta Fed’s website. This confirms their rank dishonesty.*​
> And the economy continues producing jobs at a faster rate than new workers are entering the labor force -- resulting in the first wage increases for the bottom quintiles in 20, 30 years.


Second bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Well, this outta be interesting...

Republican Muslim refugee Dalia al-Aqidi announces she’s running against Ilhan Omar



> Rep. Ilhan Omar is facing another GOP challenger in November’s election — and she’s also a Muslim refugee.
> 
> Dalia al-Aqidi, a former White House correspondent from Iraq, said she felt compelled to run against the Somali-born lawmaker, calling her a divisive figure who has neglected her Minneapolis district.
> 
> “She’s spreading hatred, and she is spreading racism throughout not only her district, not only her state, but throughout the whole country, and this is very important,” al-Aqidi, 51, told The Post on Thursday after announcing her GOP run.
> 
> “She’s hurting the moderate Muslims; Muslims like myself. She doesn’t represent me as a Muslim,” she continued.


Related:

One of the Top 3 Best Political Ads Ever – Scott Adams



> Dalia al-Aqidi is running against Ilhan Omar and she’s magnificent!


----------



## SINC

All I can do is shake my head. The absurdity of today's thinking is so out of step with reality it's not even funny.

*Chelsea Clinton: ‘Women Can Absolutely Have A Beard And A Penis’*

The Clintons were sitting down with Sunday Times journalist Decca Aitkenhead to promote the book they co-authored, The Book of Gutsy Women: Favorite Stories of Courage and Resilience, when Chelsea opened up about her views on biology, genitalia and gender.

The book features Danica Roem, the first transgender woman elected to a U.S. state legislature. 



> A person with a “beard and a penis” can “absolutely” be a woman, according to Chelsea Clinton, who told a British interviewer that she “strongly supports” biological men who identify as transgender women competing in women’s sports.


More at the link.

https://newspunch.com/chelsea-clint...BXXfYWRZjQ08-zYVrl6kygkHKroAk5I1gK0qiH2rpyUkY


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> All I can do is shake my head. The absurdity of today's thinking is so out of step with reality it's not even funny.
> 
> *Chelsea Clinton: ‘Women Can Absolutely Have A Beard And A Penis’*
> 
> The Clintons were sitting down with Sunday Times journalist Decca Aitkenhead to promote the book they co-authored, The Book of Gutsy Women: Favorite Stories of Courage and Resilience, when Chelsea opened up about her views on biology, genitalia and gender.
> 
> The book features Danica Roem, the first transgender woman elected to a U.S. state legislature.
> 
> 
> 
> More at the link.
> 
> https://newspunch.com/chelsea-clint...BXXfYWRZjQ08-zYVrl6kygkHKroAk5I1gK0qiH2rpyUkY


The weakness/depravity in her gene pool is coming through loud and clear.


----------



## FeXL

Laura Ingraham: Newly Released Email Shows Obama's White House Meeting With Ukranian Prosecutors to Discuss... Hunter Biden and Burisma



> And the fake "whistleblower," Eric Ciaramella, checked the Ukranian officials into the White House?
> 
> Politico reporter Ken Vogel contacted the White House for comment on a story he was working on. It's this email that has just been revealed.


----------



## Beej

Bernie Sanders criticised after embracing endorsement from controversial podcast host Joe Rogan
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dcast-experience-election-trump-a9299866.html


> Bernie Sanders has faced criticism from some Democrats for embracing the endorsement of controversial broadcaster and comedian Joe Rogan.





> Later the same year he tweeted that he hoped men who called themselves feminist “choke to death on vegan pizza while crying over a lady gaga song”.
> 
> The incorporation of Mr Rogan’s endorsement into an official 2020 campaign video led to Mr Sanders being accused of validating those views.


The 2020 election is shaping up to be more entertaining than 2016. Trump vs Sanders would be two old New Yorkers yelling at each other, as the founding fathers intended.


----------



## Beej

Update on the crazy antics of progressives in U.S. politics.

MoveOn calls on Sanders to renounce Joe Rogan endorsement (emphasis added)
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-on-sanders-to-renounce-joe-rogan-endorsement


> The group, which endorsed Sanders in 2016 and is fueled by many of the same progressive activists who have backed the Vermont senator’s White House bid, called on Sanders to reject the endorsement over Rogan’s past discriminatory comments.
> 
> “It's one thing for Joe Rogan to endorse a candidate. It's another for @BernieSanders’ campaign to produce a video bolstering the endorsement of someone known for *promoting transphobia, homophobia, Islamophobia, racism and misogyny*,” MoveOn tweeted Saturday.


I think they got in all the ism-phobias with that quote. Ablelism and fatphobia are missing, but maybe those are a given for an MMA fan. Plus, MoveOn wouldn't want to sound like even bigger unhinged screeching wackos, so the list is kept to the basics.


----------



## SINC

Censorship alive and well when it involves Obama. 

When the villain is Obama, not Trump, news suddenly becomes not worth reporting

https://nypost.com/2019/11/20/when-...medium=site+buttons&utm_campaign=site+buttons


----------



## FeXL

Supreme Court Knocks Down Hawaiian Judge's Injunction Against Trump's "Public Charge" Rule Change;
_Neil Gorsuch Slams Penny-Ante District Judges for Issuing Nationwide Injunctions, Legislating from the Bench_



> The"public charge" rule says that immigrants cannot be granted green cards unless they can show that they are self-sufficient and would not become public charges -- that is, dependents on the public fisc.
> 
> The old rule only looked at a few things to determine if someone would wind up a "public charge." The old rule absurdly did not examine whether the immigrant was _currently_ on Medicaid, food stamps, or other forms of welfare.
> 
> Doesn't that seem like the first thing you'd look at to determine if an immigrant would be (or already _is_) a "public charge"?
> 
> Well, you would, unless, of course, it was your plan to socialize the United States by permitting in as many low-income, government dependent socialist-leaning immigrants as possible.
> 
> Trump changed the rule to require examiningobvious evidence of someone's status as a "public charge," so of course the Sorosian Left went crazy and filed lawsuits everywhere.


More:



> Princeton can use a man like Neil Gorsuch.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Fauxcahontas:

Elizabeth Warren: ‘How Could The American People Want Someone Who Lies To Them?’ 



> Exactly.


----------



## CubaMark

*Record debt and inequality gap? It's almost like 40 years of Republican tax cuts failed.*

Since the Reagan administration, Republicans have fervently claimed lower taxes will unleash the "makers" — incentivizing them to work harder and invest more, thereby trickling down to benefit ordinary Americans. Moreover, they have consistently claimed that their tax cuts would create such dramatic economic growth that they’d literally pay for themselves. A rising tide lifts all boats! No hard choices to make — just cut taxes!

Instead, the national debt is at a record high, and the gap between the richest and the poorest U.S. households is now the largest it has been in the 52 years the Census Bureau has been tracking it. And that inequality gap started to expand dramatically about the same time the Republican Party started cutting taxes. 

[...]

For example, Republican President George W. Bush’s 2003 tax act reduced the top tax rate on dividend income from 38.6% to 15% — a massive reduction that was supposed to trigger an investment boom and a trickle-down of benefits, such as higher compensation, to ordinary Americans. However, in a 2015 study of IRS data from 1996 to 2008, published in the American Economic Review, Berkeley economist Danny Yagan found that "the tax cut had no detectable impact on investment or employee compensation."

[,,,]

Another (though related) argument the GOP keeps making is that its tax cuts will pay for themselves. The available data, however, show that the 2003 tax cut and an earlier cut in 2001 benefited the richest Americans, and did not pay for themselves (indeed, by some calculations the two tax cuts added $5.6 trillion to the national debt). 

More recently, Republican Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin claimed that the GOP’s 2017 tax cut would not only pay for itself, but would actually reduce the federal deficit by $1 trillion. So far (according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office), the 2017 tax cut isn’t paying for itself with higher tax revenue, and it’s projected to add $1.5 trillion to our national debt over the next 10 years.

[...]

I’m not making a plea for larger government — just a plea for economic sanity. If Congress in its all-seeing wisdom wants to spend $700 billion on the military, billions of dollars on farm subsidies and so on, it must either raise enough money in taxes to pay for the programs it authorizes or reduce the size of government. 

Instead, although Republicans controlled the White House, the Senate and the House from 2017 to 2019, they chose not to make (or even seriously debate) any substantial cuts to government programs that would balance the revenue lost by their series of massive unfunded tax cuts.

Unquestioning and unsubstantiated belief in the magical power of tax cuts isn’t a viable economic policy.

(USAToday)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Finally, we agree. US spending is out of hand.

Curiously, though, you abstain from addressing the fact that all the Prog candidates' platforms would dwarf Trump's debt. Some of the crazy old farts don't even know how much their programs will cost! "You have to elect me to find out how much it's gonna be!" Riiiiiiight.

And, _and_, you never let out a squeak when Red Rachel forced our children and grandchildren into indentured servitude to pay off her debt & deficit, did you?

While we're discussing failed economic policy, you may wish to address the Prime Moron's, as well.

That said, you'd better take a look at the balance of the economy (perhaps by accessing a greater authority than USAToday) before you open that hole under your nose & begin pi$$ing & moaning about how poor it is in the US.


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Finally, we agree. US spending is out of hand.


And yet there's always enough money around for missiles and bombs, the creation of new waves of refugees from war, none for homeless and veterans and seniors... the more things change....



FeXL said:


> Curiously, though, you abstain from addressing the fact that all the Prog candidates' platforms would dwarf Trump's debt.


Yep. More "whataboutism" from the illustrious FeXL. Ignore the left hand, here, look at the right hand. Sure, it's immobile on the table, but one of these days, it might just jump up and poke you!



FeXL said:


> And, _and_, you never let out a squeak when Red Rachel forced our children and grandchildren into indentured servitude to pay off her debt & deficit, did you?


At least Rachel had a plan, which included moving to a more diversified economy that wasn't so dependent upon the resource extraction industry's boom-and-bust cycle. But I'm sure the *faith* you put in the Great Kenney will lead you to fame and fortune. Hope you don't need that pension, though....



FeXL said:


> While we're discussing failed economic policy, you may wish to address the Prime Moron's, as well.


Not at all a fan of Trudeau's economic policies. But that's not the kind of thing - like Alberta's - that should probably be in, y'know, the Canadian Political Thread. 



FeXL said:


> That said, you'd better take a look at the balance of the economy (perhaps by accessing a greater authority than USAToday) before you open that hole under your nose & begin pi$$ing & moaning about how poor it is in the US.


USAToday, and the other sources listed below, are citing the Congressional Budget Office's latest report. But yeah, I know, they're just a bunch of commie pinko *spit* _progs_ who shouldn't be given the time of day.... :lmao:

U.S. National Debt Will Rise to 98% of GDP by 2030, CBO Projects (Wall Street Journal)

Bill for U.S. debt will come due (The Columbian)

U.S. debt's path 'unsustainable,' House panel told (Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette)

CBO projects a decade of trillion-dollar deficits and soaring US debt (CNN)

Federal Debt Is Out Of Control, But It Hasn’t Always Been This Way (Forbes)


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

First off, Damn That Trump & His Economic Policy!

President Trump Job Approval

h/t AoS, who noted:



> It's at the highest since February 2017.
> 
> Sean Trende of Real Clear Politics adds:
> 
> @SeanTrende
> 
> It's not just us, btw. [Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight]'s RV/LV polling has him at the highest since mid-March of 2017.​
> Nice work, Democrats (and Mitt Romney). Thank you for your service.


Yeppers.

Second, where's your criticism for the Prime Moron's lack of money "for homeless and veterans and seniors"? Yes, this is the APT but your criticism of precisely the same issues is curiously absent in the CPT.

The more things change, indeed.



CubaMark said:


> And yet there's always enough money around for missiles and bombs, the creation of new waves of refugees from war, none for homeless and veterans and seniors... the more things change....


Merely throwing into sharp relief your hypocrisy.



CubaMark said:


> More "whataboutism" from the illustrious FeXL.


Yep. That was some plan. And if you believed in that have I got a chunk of swamp & a bridge for you... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> At least Rachel had a plan...


Alberta's economy is already quite diversified, thankyouverymuch. It's a topic which has been discussed elsewhere at length.



CubaMark said:


> ...which included moving to a more diversified economy that wasn't so dependent upon the resource extraction industry's boom-and-bust cycle.


I have little faith in Kenney. However, compared to Red Rachel, in whom I had zero faith, yes, it is significantly higher. And, if you actually want me to click on a link, don't insult me by linking to MotherCorpse.



CubaMark said:


> But I'm sure the *faith* you put in the Great Kenney will lead you to fame and fortune.


And yet you don't criticize. Curious...



CubaMark said:


> Not at all a fan of Trudeau's economic policies.


Why, yes. Yes they are citing it. However, all the editorializing that is accompanying the citation is first hand "commie pinko *spit* _Prog_" BS & fear-mongering. Notice that not one of those esteemed <snort> _news_ outlets has passed criticism on any of the <spit> Prog candidate's proposed budgets, or complete absence of them, each & every one of whom plans to outspend Trump?

Curious your absence of criticism regarding that topic, too. Here on the APT or anywhere else, for that matter.

In addition, and quite to the contrary, I think the Progs are doing a bang-up job getting Trump re-elected. By all means, keep f'ing that chicken. In another 10 months I shall be relishing all those Prog tears once again. :lmao:



CubaMark said:


> USAToday, and the other sources listed below, are citing the Congressional Budget Office's latest report. But yeah, I know, they're just a bunch of commie pinko *spit* _progs_ who shouldn't be given the time of day....


----------



## Macfury

CM's sharp tongue only slices one way--mostly to chop his head off at the neck!

I love that phrase "funding a tax cut." Nope, the money belongs to the taxpayer--it's being appropriated to fund his precious government programs.


----------



## SINC

Obama again.

Another Obama solar company burns out – DC Solar owners plead guilty to largest Ponzi scheme in eastern California history.

https://www.statedepartmentwatch.or...Sbsrm3DddcSMiYLYwGKcotj4P7DU7WnZzeiPZnWjf_j6E


----------



## FeXL

Will MI-6 Chuck Steele Under The Bus?



> Somehow I think the next few weeks are not going to be good ones for the Democrats. First Trump will give a rousing State Of The Union Address, then he will be exonerated in the Political Impeachment Stunt, and then it will be payback time. Rudy is in the wings with a load, and The Ukrainian Prosecutor that Biden got fired is demanding a prosecution…
> 
> Then, with the UK Post Brexit, it looks like Boris is set to cosy up to Trump, sure to cause the Globalists heartburn, who will then **** on their owned Democrats to “motivate them”… *At the same time, it looks like MI-6 may be about to toss Steele under the bus for his part in the fiasco. Nothing like having your corruption and “secret” manipulation blow up in your face and be front page news for months on end to cause a spy agency heartburn…* Just look at the efforts to keep the real name of Chiarly Mellow out of the news as “whistle blower” C.I.A. Operative attempting to form a coup in the USA.


Bold mine.

Interesting read.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Orange Doofus Strikes Again!*

*Another Trump Map:*










*Trump mistakenly congratulates Kansas after Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl win*

_Related:_

*Newly-Released NOAA Emails Show Anger and Confusion Around Trump’s ‘Doctored’ Hurricane Dorian Map*

_Some man-children just shouldn't be allowed to have Sharpies....._


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *The Orange Doofus Strikes Again!*
> 
> 
> 
> *Another Trump Map:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump mistakenly congratulates Kansas after Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl win*
> 
> 
> 
> _Related:_
> 
> 
> 
> *Newly-Released NOAA Emails Show Anger and Confusion Around Trump’s ‘Doctored’ Hurricane Dorian Map*
> 
> 
> 
> _Some man-children just shouldn't be allowed to have Sharpies....._




What a twit. I imagine our local defenders will find some way to spin this to make it sound positive for Trump.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> What a twit. I imagine our local defenders will find some way to spin this to make it sound positive for Trump.


Let me get them started, since it's pretty likely they'll go with something like:

"Damned (spit) _progs_ (spit) just trying to make our Glorious Leader look bad - they planned this... 'waaay back they knew Trump would make an honest-to GOD mistake like this, and those lefty Missourans named that city just to make him look bad. This was in the works all the way back in 1850! Evil commie propaganda! The Demorats (snicker snicker, we're so clever) had this setup, this fake news!, this gotcha politics, in place just hoping they'd catch out our Very Intelligent Things Smart Things Nobody's More Intelligent™ President (for life! yes!) Donald J. Trump! May God Bless Him And His Brethren Forevermore!"​


----------



## Macfury

You've already seen the original hurricane map that included a portion of Alabama. Does it matter that the career civil servants at NOAA were confused and angry? 

(Did I mention that I love the way that Trump irritates you two old geezers?!)


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> (Did I mention that I love the way that Trump irritates you two old geezers?!)


I, too, think it's freaking hilarious.

If the only dirt these two perpetually offended TDS idiots can dredge up is the above, then just like the last 3 years, they still got nuttin'.

Curious that neither of them climbed aboard their high horse when Obama talked about his "57 states". Or a veritable host of other gaffes by the saviour.

Curious, too, that neither of them mention this little gem, either:

John Kerry Endorses Biden to Fight Against ‘AR-16 with Long Clip’



> Kerry said, “You heard from Joe about the things he did with the NRA, that took courage, Delaware’s a tough state. *I’m a hunter, I’m a gun owner, been that all my life.*” But he stressed he is the last person who would “*take an AR-16 with a long clip* out to go out and shoot a deer or to shoot anything. But now we have a crowd that was willing to bring them back, and we saw what happened in Las Vegas and other places.”


Ah, our moral & intellectual superiors...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Something we seriously need both provincially & federally...

Utah Lawmaker Introduces Bill To Recall US Senators Like Mitt Romney When They Betray Voters



> Republican Utah state Rep. Tim Quinn just took a well-deserved shot at Utah Senator Mitt Romney. He put Romney on notice and introduced a bill to allow Utah voters to recall Senators.
> 
> Now, Quinn says this is not aimed solely at Mitt Romney but that six years is a long time and he wants the Utah voters to have a remedy if they send a clown to Washington.
> 
> Term limits, recall initiatives, etc., all sound like a good idea if we want to take back our country rather than see it drown in the swamp.


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> John Kerry Endorses Biden to Fight Against ‘AR-16 with Long Clip’
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, our moral & intellectual superiors...
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:


That's silly. The only difference between an AR-15 and a 16 is the hat.
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-deadlier-ar-16-introduced-which-is-an-ar-15-wearing-a-maga-hat


> The AR-15 was the deadliest gun ever made, able to fire over 100 rounds a day. The “AR” in it stands for “AR-15 Rifle” and the 15 stands for “50% more than 10.” The new AR-16 is obviously even more destructive, though. “Guns are scary enough,” said being-scared-by-guns expert Noah Carlson, “but knowing a gun is a supporter of Donald Trump makes it even more terrifying. What’s it planning to do? Obviously nothing good.”


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> That's silly. The only difference between an AR-15 and a 16 is the hat.


ROTFLMAO!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Beej

The Iowa caucus was a sh*t show, but there is a funny twitter thread from someone claiming to be a caucus secretary reporting results because he was on hold waiting to officially report over the phone.

https://twitter.com/shawnsebastian/status/1224538096571686912

The process sounds like a complete mess based on counting people, not ballots, but there are some funny excerpts below.


> We had 285 total people in our caucus and a 15% viability threshold, which meant you needed at least 43 people to be viable after the first round.





> Even before we got a count on the first alignment, the Biden people bailed and went to Pete or Amy.





> I hand counted the viables, and just took the reports from the unviables, so this adds up to 1 extra.





> We lost a couple people who just had to leave at this point.





> These are the results that I've been trying to report for about 2 hours now. I was on hold for about 90 min, CNN wanted to interview about my experience, and in that moment I got off hold ... but couldn't get on fast enough and they hung up on me.
> 
> I'm back on hold.


Good luck interfering with that process, Russians!


----------



## SINC

Beej said:


> Good luck interfering with that process, Russians!


Yep!


----------



## FeXL

Headline nails it:

The Party that wants to take over much of the economy, can’t even run a small state’s caucus!



> The results from Iowa: 0-0-0-0-0


Comments hilarious.

Related:

SUSPICIOUS: Over 18,000 Extra Names on Iowa Voting Rolls



> On Monday, Judicial Watch reported that eight counties in the state of Iowa have registration rates above 100 percent, adding at least 18,658 extra names to the Iowa voting rolls. The Iowa caucuses are to be held on Monday.
> 
> Of course, this phenomenon isn't limited to just Iowa. According to Judicial Watch’s analysis of government data, "378 counties nationwide that have more voter registrations than citizens living there who are old enough to vote, i.e., counties where registration rates exceed 100%."
> 
> *These 378 counties have a combined 2.5 million registrations over the 100% mark. *


Progs: But it's a small problem!!!


----------



## FeXL

A reminder for Freddie & The Bigot:

10 Embarrassing Obama Gaffes the Left Needs to Be Reminded of After Trump's Kansas Gaffe



> Perhaps one of the pettiest aspects of politics is the way political opponents pounce on gaffes. Most gaffes, while they make for good humor, are typically not consequential blunders that mean anything beyond an innocent verbal flub or a harmless typo. When President Trump made his infamous “covfefe” tweet four months into his presidency, many people couldn’t let it go, and the coverage a simple typo received was undeniably excessive.
> 
> On Sunday night, in a congratulatory tweet to the Kansas City Chiefs on winning the Super Bowl, Trump mistakenly referred to them as hailing from the state of Kansas. This literally prompted Senator Claire McCaskill to refer to him as a “stone cold idiot.”
> 
> It’s Missouri you stone cold idiot. pic.twitter.com/O1cAAOFsJ6
> — Claire McCaskill (@clairecmc) February 3, 2020​
> Of course, when politicians seek to capitalize on innocuous gaffes such as this, it prompts me to have to point out that Trump didn’t invent the presidential gaffe. Most of the time we should be able to just laugh at these gaffes, recognize them as inconsequential, and move on, and not use them to accuse the president of being a “stone cold idiot.”
> 
> But hey, if Trump is a “stone cold idiot” then so is his predecessor, Barack Obama. Below, I give you ten gaffes I’ve picked out as examples of embarrassing flubs that maybe should give people like McCaskill pause before exploiting Trump gaffes for a political attack.


----------



## FeXL

Further:

Democrat Debacle in Iowa



> There are still no results. Supposedly there are problems with the app for reporting results, though we also know that last night, Joe Biden's general counsel wrote a letter to the Iowa Democrat Party demanding they continue checking the results.
> 
> AmGreatness' headline: "Suspicion, Chaos Win Iowa Caucus."
> 
> A CBS reporter tweets:
> 
> Kathryn Watson
> 
> @kathrynw5
> 
> The winner of tonight's Iowa caucuses: Trump, who will claim Democrats are in total disarray​
> A friend says, "He's going to _claim_ they're in disarray?"


----------



## eMacMan

So in the same week we have the Democrypts shooting themselves in both feet.

They are trying to get the Senate to impeach Trump, not for war crimes, not for his very shady business practices, not for buddy capitalism; But for attempting to shine a light on Joe Biden withholding money to the Ukraine, until the Ukrainians stopped investigating the corrupt activities of Hunter Biden.

Truly a first in American History, a politician impeached for trying to tell a truth. Now there is no question that both sides of the swamp consider truth abhorrent and incredibly dangerous to the political system, but this has suicidal strategy and stooopididity written all over it.

Then as a capper they make a complete mess of the Iowa Caucuses. Wow and we all thought they were scraping the bottom of the barrel when they nominated Hiliary.

*To say that I am glad I no longer have a vote in the US elections would make me guilty of extreme understatement.*


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Then as a capper they make a complete mess of the Iowa Caucuses. Wow and we all thought they were scraping the bottom of the barrel when they nominated Hiliary.


I think they're trying to delay the reporting until New Hampshire, so Bernie can be robbed of his Iowa bump. It will be everybody against Bernie, form here on in.


----------



## Beej

eMacMan said:


> So in the same week we have the Democrypts shooting themselves in both feet.


It's only Tuesday. They still have time to cut off their nose to spite their face, score an own goal, and to experience both a backfire and blowback.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> It's only Tuesday. They still have time to cut off their nose to spite their face, score an own goal, and to experience both a backfire and blowback.


Oooooooo, a cynic. I like it!


----------



## FeXL

Damn that Trump and his economic policy! And his crime policy! And his immigration policy! And his tax policy! And his foreign policy! An', an'...

GALLUP: TRUMP JOB APPROVAL RISES TO HIGHEST LEVEL EVER, AT 49%



> GALLUP: TRUMP JOB APPROVAL RISES TO HIGHEST LEVEL EVER, AT 49%
> 
> And that's enough to win the election, given third party candidates, and given that so many Democrat votes are in states that are noncompetitive, like California.
> 
> And also given the Shy Trump Voter effect.
> 
> President Donald Trump's job approval rating has risen to 49%, his highest in Gallup polling since he took office in 2017.
> 
> The new poll finds 50% of Americans disapproving of Trump, leaving just 1% expressing no opinion. The average percentage not having an opinion on Trump has been 5% throughout his presidency.
> 
> Trump's approval rating has risen because of higher ratings among both Republicans and independents....
> 
> *The Jan. 16-29 poll was conducted in the midst of the Senate impeachment trial that will likely result in the president's acquittal.* The poll finds 52% of Americans in favor of acquitting Trump and 46% in favor of convicting and removing him from office.​


Links' bold.

ORANGEMANBAD!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## Beej

FeXL said:


> Oooooooo, a cynic. I like it!


I consider it being optimistic about future entertainment. Potato potahto. beejacon


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> I consider it being optimistic about future entertainment. Potato potahto. beejacon


And all well worth the price of admission!


----------



## FeXL

Democrat Coin Toss



> Seems legit.
> 
> Here’s your Iowa democracy in action – a coin toss to determine who gets the last delegate out of this #IowaCaucus precinct after Buttigieg and Klobuchar tied. Buttigieg won. pic.twitter.com/1s4zTE0u96
> 
> — Anthony Zurcher (@awzurcher) February 4, 2020​
> 
> Uh oh.


----------



## FeXL

Censure, Expel and Disbar Adam Schiff



> House Speaker Pelosi, furious that her unethical impeachment is going down the tubes, is now suggesting the President’s lawyers be disbarred.
> 
> As George Washington University Law School professor Jonathan Turley reports this on his own website:
> 
> _“I was surprised and disappointed therefore that my fellow witness from the Trump impeachment hearing, North Carolina Law Professor and CNN Legal Analyst Michael Gerhardt joined this dubious argument on CNN yesterday. The call for ethics charges seems dangerously close to the view of Lawrence O’Donnell that Trump defenders are barred from his MSNBC program because they are all ‘liars.’”_​


Interesting list.


----------



## FeXL

By all reasonable measures (that means, not whiny Progs), an outstanding SOTU!



> But on the other side of the aisle, and in point of fact on the other side of the universe, divorced from any sense of reality and unmoored from even the most basic notions of comity, decency and propriety stand the words and deeds of the Democrat Party and the American Left. The immaturity, pettiness and venomous hatred that are so utterly divorced from reason were an absolute embarrassment. How the so-called party of inclusiveness, openness, tolerance and diversity can sit on its hands when a young, black schoolgirl and her mother are spotlighted, or when the great economic news for women, blacks, Latinos and Asians are celebrated is revelatory if not damning. I imagine it will not be lost on the aforementioned who saw it.


More:



> Honestly, what can I possibly write about Nancy Pelosi making a spectacle of herself by refusing to introduce the President in the traditional manner and then by ripping up the copy of his speech at the end? If she thinks in her febrile, botulinum-addled walnut-sized reptilian brain that her performance is some sort of courageous act of defiance that will rally Americans to her side, she's really gone off the deep end. Same goes for the wearing of white, yet again, by the female (on paper) members of the Democrat Party. Those are metaphorical funeral shrouds for your party, gals. Inshalla.


As always, J.J. Sefton nails it.


----------



## eMacMan

For those who are willing to look outside the Lamestream this is already old news, but the Lamestream has finally discovered this as well.
https://news.yahoo.com/shadow-former-hillary-clinton-staff-173510770.html


> Shadow appears to have begun life as an app called GroundGame, and then Groundbase, which was first founded in 2017. It appears to have been re-branded in the intervening period, before being launched under its current name in 2017.
> 
> Niemira said in the same post that he had created the app with “a few of my colleagues from the Hillary for America campaign where we built tools for [the campaign’s] field team”. *Many of the people involved in the creation of what is now called Shadow worked on the Clinton campaign, as well as at technology firms, according to LinkedIn profiles.*
> 
> The app will also be used in the Nevada caucus, due to happen on 22 February. The local Democratic parties in each state paid $60,000 to Shadow for their services, according to Federal Election Commission disclosures.


Surprise surprise when the Democrypts really screw up, it's someone from the Hiliary camp at fault. Even less surprising is that having failed in such a spectacular manner the app will also be used in Nevada. Harry Reid will be so proud.


----------



## eMacMan

eMacMan said:


> For those who are willing to look outside the Lamestream this is already old news, but the Lamestream has finally discovered this as well.
> https://news.yahoo.com/shadow-former-hillary-clinton-staff-173510770.html
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow appears to have begun life as an app called GroundGame, and then Groundbase, which was first founded in 2017. It appears to have been re-branded in the intervening period, before being launched under its current name in 2017.
> 
> Niemira said in the same post that he had created the app with “a few of my colleagues from the Hillary for America campaign where we built tools for [the campaign’s] field team”. *Many of the people involved in the creation of what is now called Shadow worked on the Clinton campaign, as well as at technology firms, according to LinkedIn profiles.*
> 
> The app will also be used in the Nevada caucus, due to happen on 22 February. The local Democratic parties in each state paid $60,000 to Shadow for their services, according to Federal Election Commission disclosures.
> 
> 
> 
> Surprise surprise when the Democrypts really screw up, it's someone from the Hiliary camp at fault. Even less surprising is that having failed in such a spectacular manner the app will also be used in Nevada. Harry Reid will be so proud.
Click to expand...

Also of note, in a different article I see that the lamestream claims the Buttman is the only candidate to have served in the military. Totally ignoring Tulsi Gabbard's strong military background.


----------



## FeXL

*Not Guilty!!!*


----------



## SINC

FeXL said:


> *Not Guilty!!!*


I'm shocked, I tells ya!


----------



## Macfury

Hope somebody primaries Romney.


----------



## FeXL

SINC said:


> I'm shocked, I tells ya!


It's a miracle...


----------



## eMacMan

Oops! Turns out Buttguy, who declared himself the winner in the absence of any results from the Iowa Caucus, helped fund the shady app. FWIW the polls had him finishing 4th.

Something tells me this election is going to be a goldmine for the comedians. 

I think Joni Mitchell has a perfect theme song as well. Something about bringing in the clowns?


----------



## eMacMan

Good article by someone who knows what he's talking about.
https://gazette.com/opinion/column-...cle_d044e550-4826-11ea-9585-5f9399a6f052.html



> Nor is it enough to use existing private sector solutions. Those are by definition not good enough. As an old friend from grad school recently pointed out on social media, did Iowa Democrats really need a dedicated app in the first place? Google, Amazon and Microsoft have existing cloud-based solutions to transmit and store information reliably over the internet. These are thoroughly tested and highly secure. Does it really make sense to spend thousands of dollars on a custom app?
> 
> Whoops, I forgot. Google, Amazon and Microsoft are corporations that create wealth, founded by talented individuals with the gall to believe they can keep some of it. That makes them the root of all evil among the present crop of Democratic nominees. Can’t have anything to do with them. Better instead to hire a company run by a former Clinton campaign staffer to produce an untested app that ignores basic principles of software engineering. Nothing to see here, folks, just move along.
> 
> I hear tell Nevada is planning on using the same app and the same company for caucus reporting and web site development. I seem to remember a small problem the Democrats had with computer security in 2016. Good thing they’ve learned their lesson.


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> Good article by someone who knows what he's talking about.


Related:

BUT THE COMPANY IS CONNECTED TO ALL THE RIGHT PEOPLE: An ‘Off-the-Shelf, Skeleton Project’: Experts Analyze the App That Broke Iowa.



> “Honestly, the biggest thing is—I don’t want to throw it under the bus—but the app was clearly done by someone following a tutorial. It’s similar to projects I do with my mentees who are learning how to code,” Rahjerdi said. “They started with a starter package and they just added things on top of it. I get deja vu from my classes because the code looks like someone Googled things like ‘how to add authentication to React Native App’ and followed the instructions,” Rahjerdi said.


Good enough for gov't work...


----------



## FeXL

For acting like a 3 year old in the middle of a tantrum...

Jonathan Turley Writes That Nancy Pelosi Must Resign; Paul Gosar Introduces a Resolution to Censure Her



> Jonathan Turley writes that if Nancy Pelosi is no longer mentally or emotionally fit to carry out her duties as Speaker of the House-- a job which includes non-partisan _constitutional_ duties in addition to the partisan ones this vinegary old witch clearly relishes -- then she should resign.
> 
> The House has its share of infamies, great and small, real and symbolic, and has been the scene of personal infamies from brawls to canings. But the conduct of Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) at the State of the Union address this week will go down as a day of infamy for the chamber as an institution. It has long been a tradition for House Speakers to remain stoic and neutral in listening to the address. However, Pelosi seemed to be intent on mocking President Trump from behind his back with sophomoric facial grimaces and head shaking, culminating in her ripping up a copy of his address.
> 
> Her drop the mic moment will have a lasting impact on the House....
> 
> The House Speaker is more than a political partisan, particularly when carrying out functions such as the State of the Union address. A president appears in the House as a guest of both chambers of Congress. The House Speaker represents not her party or herself but the entirety of the chamber. At that moment, she must transcend her own political ambitions and loyalties.​
> And remember, this was no spontaneous outburst by a mentally-deteriorating old hag. This was a stunted planned beforehand by a mentally-deteriorating old hag. Nancy Pelosi spent half the speech stealthily pre-ripping the pages so that they'd be easier for her arthritic claws to tear at the end:


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I think Joni Mitchell has a perfect theme song as well. Something about bringing in the clowns?


Judy Collins!


----------



## eMacMan

> I think Joni Mitchell has a perfect theme song as well. Something about bringing in the clowns?





Macfury said:


> Judy Collins!


You're right of course, but written by Stephen Sondheim and I'd forgotten all about Sinatra's version, or maybe never heard it.



> Sondheim wrote the song specifically for Glynis Johns, who created the role of Desirée on Broadway. The song is structured with four verses and a bridge, and uses a complex compound meter. It became Sondheim's most popular song after Frank Sinatra recorded it in 1973 and Judy Collins' version charted in 1975 and 1977. Subsequently, numerous other artists recorded the song, and it has become a jazz standard.


----------



## eMacMan

*Back in the USSR!*

Most of us who do not depend on the Lamestream are well aware that the DNC paid Christopher Steele multi millions to cook up the totally discredited Russian connection dossier. It was a political maneuver intended mainly to harass DT. With that in mind I fully intended to joke that surely the Democrypts will try to blame the Iowa Caucus catastrophe on the Russians.

Turns out at least one Democratic Congresswoman was way ahead of me and has completely embarrassed herself by trying to do just that!
https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/06/democrat-congresswoman-blames-iowa-caucus-disaster-on-russia/



> Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas suggested Wednesday that the Russians were behind the vote-reporting app crashing during Monday’s Iowa Democratic caucuses.
> 
> At an FBI oversight hearing in the House Judiciary Committee with FBI Director Christopher Wray, Jackson Lee said she hoped Iowa Democrats would press the FBI to study the Russia’s involvement in the Iowa caucuses, where full results were yet to be released four days later.


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Bigot! Good news! Trump's trimming some fat!!!

By The Numbers: Trump’s New Budget Cuts EPA By 26%, Foreign Aid By 21%



> President Donald Trump’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2021 includes sweeping cuts to the Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Commerce, and foreign aid, the White House announced Sunday.
> 
> White House officials confirmed to reporters that the budget will total $4.8 trillion, and assuming the economy grows at 3% each year, will reduce government spending by $4.4 trillion over the next 10 years.
> 
> The budget cuts funding to the EPA by 26%, foreign aid by 21%, and the DOC by 37%, though the majority of that could be attributed to the completion of the 2020 census.


Happy now?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hey, Bigot! Good news! Trump's trimming some fat!!!
> 
> By The Numbers: Trump’s New Budget Cuts EPA By 26%, Foreign Aid By 21%
> 
> 
> 
> Happy now?


CM's a real budget-hound, so he'll be jacked!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> CM's a real budget-hound, so he'll be jacked!


Or sumthin'...


----------



## FeXL

Hey, Bigot! Even _more_ cuts!

New Trump Budget Includes First Ever Chapter Defining Government Waste, Targets Programs To Eliminate Entirely



> The administration used new guidelines to identify fiscally inefficient programs. The cuts will target agencies with overlapping and similar goals, agencies that provide similar or identical services to the same group of recipients, programs without a clearly defined federal role, federal programs that mirror state-level initiatives and erroneous payments.
> 
> The budget calls for eliminating the following programs entirely:
> 
> * National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health’s Education and Research Centers
> * Department of the Interior’s Highlands Conservation Act Grants
> * National Park Service’s Save America’s Treasures Grants
> * National Endowment for the Arts Endowment for the Humanities
> * Corporation for National and Community Service (including AmeriCorps)


Woohoo!!!


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump’s Jobs Record Is Weaker Than Everyone Thought*

President Donald Trump has always exaggerated the strength of his jobs record, claiming to have brought about an unprecedented hiring boom when, in fact, payrolls have been growing at a somewhat slower pace than they had been during Barack Obama’s final years in office. But it turns out, the reality of it was even weaker than the official data let on.

On Friday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released its latest batch of employment numbers, along with its annual benchmark revisions adjusting its estimates from prior months. Before, the government believed that the U.S. had added 223,000 jobs per month in 2018, the year that the GOP’s tax cuts and new, higher spending levels took effect. It has now lowered that estimate to 193,000 per month, a significant drop.










ere’s how this changes the story of the past few years. Based on the old numbers, it looked like Trump had inherited a steady economy but gave hiring a boost in 2018 through some deficit-fueled stimulus. Based on the new numbers, it looks like he inherited a steadily growing economy and didn’t do much at all. Trump’s deficits likely juiced employment growth a bit, while his trade war likely undercut it. (The Federal Reserve’s interest rate hikes probably muted growth in 2018 a bit too.) In the end, the economy has added fewer jobs in every year of his presidency than it did during Obama’s final one. There never was much of a Trump bump.

(Slate)​


----------



## Macfury

Obama piloted the worst economic recovery in the post-WWII era. His numbers represent the slow, cyclical return of old job numbers. Trump is entering all-new ground, employing people well above the old benchmark. This is why unemployment numbers have dropped to 3.5% and labour participation is at an 
all-time high.

You're welcome.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Obama didn't build that...


----------



## FeXL

Swamp. Draining...

Trump Gets Rid of 70 Obama Holdovers on the NSC;Joe DiGenova Says That the "Anonymous" Writer Who Penned New York Times Against Trump Has Been Identified and Will Be Sidelined



> NeverTrumpers cry harder than the Democrats about Democrat spies and saboteurs being fired.
> 
> By the way, have you noticed this odd couple of propositions urged by Democrats, the media, and NeverTrump (but I repeat myself thrice)?:
> 
> Proposition 1. The presidency of the United States is a fairly trivial office whose occupant can be swapped out whenever the Ruling Class is upset. Upsetting the Ruling Class counts as an impeachable offense.
> 
> Proposition 2. Low-ranking political appointees in the federal bureaucracy should have Lifetime Appointments and may not be removed from their positions, ever, except by Democrat PResidents. Insubordinate bureaucrats 00 even those who proudly declare they are part of the #Resistance dedicated to undermining the civilian government they are a part of -- have guaranteed Lifetime Tenure and efforts to fire, demote, or sideline them are grossly unconstitutional and indeed an impeachable offense. (See Proposition 1.)
> 
> *Can this be? Can it really be that we can eject Trump from office on a whim of Adam Schiff's, but "LIEUTENANT COLONEL" Vindman is guaranteed his paper-pushing job for life?*


Bold mine.

<snort>


----------



## eMacMan

Given that the Combover had just lured an Iranian top official into Iraq on what that official believed was a diplomatic peace mission, and had that man assassinated, I would say the CBP response was to be expected.

Beyond that officials lying sadly seems to have become the norm post 9/11. 

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/pol...s-to-detain-Iranian-Americans-at-15048342.php



> Customs officials were "overzealous" last month when they detained as many as 200 Iranian-Americans and green card holders for hours last month at the U.S.-Canada border in Blaine.
> 
> That was the defense acting U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Mark Morgan told a Washington, D.C., briefing on Tuesday.
> 
> The detentions caused an uproar, and an embarrassing, untruthful response. In a tweet, Customs and Border Protection said, falsely: "Social media posts that CBP is detaining Iranian Americans and refusing their entry into the US because of their country of origin are false. Reports that DHS/CBP has issued a related directive are also false."
> 
> There was a directive, entitled "Update Procedures," issued by the Seattle Field Office shortly after a U.S. drone strike assassinated Iranian Gen. Qasem Soleimani.
> 
> The directive instructed border staff to vet all travelers born in Iran and Lebanon between 1961 and 2001, or who had traveled to the two countries. It leaked into the news two weeks later.
> ....


----------



## Beej

I’ve been a Democrat for 20 years, but my experience made me realize just how out of touch my party is with the country at large
https://gen.medium.com/ive-been-a-d...t-trump-s-rally-in-new-hampshire-c69ddaaf6d07

This story references the knitting community dust-up I've posted about before. Could be a too "on the nose" tell for a bit of creative writing, or just that there is a large knitting community. The general idea of the left/anti-Trump echo chamber of rage, created largely by dishonest media and progressives on social media, is something I've seen many times. 



> You see, I was one of those Democrats who considered anyone who voted for Trump a racist. I thought they were horrible (yes, even deplorable) and worked very hard to eliminate their voices from my spaces by unfriending or blocking people who spoke about their support of him, however minor their comments. I watched a lot of MSNBC, was convinced that everything he had done was horrible, that he hated anyone who wasn’t a straight white man, and that he had no redeeming qualities.





> The more voices outside the left that I listened to, the more I realized that these were not bad people. They were not racists, nazis, or white supremacists. We had differences of opinions on social and economic issues, but a difference of opinion does not make your opponent inherently evil. And they could justify their opinions using arguments, rather than the shouting and ranting I saw coming from my side of the aisle.





> I had heard about #WalkAway when MSNBC told me it was fake and a bunch of Russian bots. But then I started to meet real people who had been Democrats and made the decision to leave because they could not stand the way the left was behaving.





> With Trump, there was a genuinely optimistic view of the future. With the Democrats, it was doom and gloom. With Trump, there was a genuine feeling of pride of being an American. With the Democrats, they emphasized that the country was a racist place from top to bottom.


----------



## eMacMan

The guy was corrupt to his very core, probably explains why Trump pardoned him. Can't have bums like that contaminating the morals of our fine upstanding prison population.
https://lethbridgeherald.com/news/w...vich-released-from-prison-after-trump-pardon/


> CHICAGO – Rod Blagojevich walked out of prison Tuesday after President Donald Trump cut short the 14-year prison sentence handed to the former Illinois governor for political corruption.
> 
> The Republican president said the punishment imposed on the Chicago Democrat and one-time contestant on Trump’s reality TV show “Celebrity Apprentice” was excessive.


----------



## Beej

MSNBC host urged to quit after comparing Bernie Sanders win in Nevada to Nazi invasion
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ce-invasion-msnbc-nevada-caucus-a9353421.html


> MSNBC’s Chris Matthews is under fire after comparing Bernie Sanders’ victory in the Nevada caucuses to the Nazi invasion of France in 1940.


Now they don't like Nazi comparisons. Just get back to, "orange man bad" and the mob will move on.


----------



## Beej

Sanders: 'Unfair to simply say everything is bad' in Cuba under Castro
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484304-sanders-unfair-to-simply-say-everything-is-bad-in-cuba


> “We're very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but you know it's unfair to simply say everything is bad,” Sanders told “60 Minutes” in an interview that aired late Sunday.


At least the trains ran on time...

This election is going to be more entertaining than 2016. 

"Say hello to the 21st century"
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf9V-yzCzR4[/ame]


----------



## SINC

Cornering the market 101:

*Trump campaign buys '$1M+ a day' YouTube election day masthead ads: Reports*



> In the days leading up to the U.S. presidential election and on Election Day, YouTube's homepage will reportedly be advertising only one candidate: Donald Trump.
> 
> The impeached president’s re-election campaign bought out YouTube's costly advertising space for early November, and the deal ensures Trump will be all anyone sees on Google's YouTube during the critical days when voters get ready to head to the polls on November 3, reports Bloomberg News.


https://boingboing.net/2020/02/21/trump-campaign-buys-1m-a-d.html?fk_bb


----------



## FeXL

Bill Barr Skewers "Remarkably Monolithic" Activist Press as No Longer a Bulwark Against Depotism, But an Accelerant Towards Despotism



> William Barr 2024.
> 
> Fight me.
> 
> Oh, he calls them the "corporate" press, too.


Oh, pshaw. Everybody knows that Trump is going to take over as a lifetime dictator, no?

More:



> Barr 2024. Seriously. There is no question at all.


Interesting...


----------



## CubaMark

Beej said:


> Sanders: 'Unfair to simply say everything is bad' in Cuba under Castro
> https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484304-sanders-unfair-to-simply-say-everything-is-bad-in-cuba
> 
> 
> At least the trains ran on time...


I don't know about that - lack of spare parts, fuel, etc. (thanks, US Embargo!) meant that trains were pretty hit-and-miss. I remember spending about five hours trying to get comfy on a concrete bench in Santiago de Cuba back in '99, waiting for the train back to Havana (it did eventually arrive). 

More recently, though, with investments from China and Russia, Cuba's train system is improving.


----------



## CubaMark

Related: 

The New Yorker, "Under Control"
Fact Checking Trump's Coronavirus Press Conference (factcheck.org)


Trump said the current number of COVID-19 cases in the U.S. is “going very substantially down, not up.” But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said to expect more cases and has warned that it is highly unlikely that the virus will not spread to some degree within the U.S. The first case of community spread may have already occurred.
Economic adviser Larry Kudlow also misled on the potential for the virus to spread within the U.S., saying in a television interview, “We have contained this,” and “_t’s pretty close to airtight.”
[*]The president said that the U.S. is “rapidly developing a vaccine” for COVID-19 and “will essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner.” That’s misleading. The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said a vaccine at best won’t be ready for “a year to a year-and-a-half” and won’t be available for the current epidemic.
[*]So far, the fatality rate for COVID-19 has been about 2-3%, higher than the influenza fatality rate in the United States of about 0.1%. But in talking about those rates, the president made confusing remarks that left a false impression that “the flu is much higher” than the coronavirus rate.
[*]Trump’s acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Chad Wolf, falsely claimed this week that the influenza fatality rate was “right around 2% as well.” It’s not.
[*]In making a comparison to a past outbreak, the president correctly noted that Ebola is far more deadly than the novel coronavirus. But he neglected to mention that Ebola can only be transmitted via bodily fluids and is harder to catch.
[*]The president made these claims in a Feb. 26 press conference, in which he said Vice President Mike Pence would lead the administration’s response to the coronavirus outbreak. Wolf and Kudlow, who is now a member of the administration’s coronavirus task force, spoke earlier this week.
_


----------



## CubaMark

*Mike Pence Calls For Urgent Research Into Which Sin Coronavirus Is Punishment For*










Coronavirus czar Mike Pence has wasted no time getting down to business as he met with leading medical experts today to learn the scale of the task he has been entrusted with by President Trump.

“The experts have informed me it is critical we understand the origins of this deadly disease as best we can which is why my first step will be to create a taskforce to identify the sin against God responsible.”​
Pence has directed the nation’s best epidemiologists and statisticians to drop whatever they are doing and focus on finding correlations between the outbreak and increases in sinful behavior.

“I want no potential contributing factor to this epidemic ruled out – homosexuality, killing babies in the womb, wasting seed in the manner of Onan, and all forms of fornication of course.”​
The rise of the trans rights movement has been fingered as a likely cause, though Pence says there will be no jumping to conclusions before the proper scientific methodology has been applied.

“We are looking into it very carefully. Rest assured that no gender identify will be left unstudied as we learn the origins of this plague and how best to appease the Almighty so that He may choose not to smite us further.”​
(BreakingBurgh)​


----------



## Macfury

Well, when you've got the Russians investing in you, that's really something!



CubaMark said:


> I don't know about that - lack of spare parts, fuel, etc. (thanks, US Embargo!) meant that trains were pretty hit-and-miss. I remember spending about five hours trying to get comfy on a concrete bench in Santiago de Cuba back in '99, waiting for the train back to Havana (it did eventually arrive).
> 
> More recently, though, with investments from China and Russia, Cuba's train system is improving.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

While some of these observations may or may not be fair points, where's your criticism of the numbers coming from the Chi-Coms?

Article after article is being published throwing into sharp relief the fact that they're lying their asses off about source, numbers affected, numbers dead, etc.

As a matter of fact, the 2% that Trump quoted is a number that the Chi-Coms have been bandying around for some time.

Why is it that when Trump addresses the topic it suddenly becomes a hair-on-fire issue worthy of your criticism and all we got from you when the Chi-Coms pushed their garbage was crickets?

Asking for a friend...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

Did you call for an end to open borders and squelching international travel? Nope.



CubaMark said:


> Trump... Trump... Trump...


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Did you call for an end to open borders and squelching international travel? Nope.


Tha's racis'!!!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## SINC

This has been proven to be an American behaviour due more to ignorance by the public, than any actions of Mike Pence or anyone else in the White House. Try placing the blame for the behaviour where it belongs. Education maybe for example? Simple memes like this are as ignorant as the American public, as are people who persist in using them. 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/su...inkers-wont-buy-corona-because-of-coronavirus


----------



## Macfury

It's because CM has been doing such a great job in telling us what to do about COVID-19 that we respect him so much... 

_(Quick with the "send" button, glacial with the deep analysis)._


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> It's because CM has been doing such a great job in telling us what to do about COVID-19 that we respect him so much...
> 
> _(Quick with the "send" button, glacial with the deep analysis)._


OH! I see! Sorry, I didn't realize your confusion.

I am indeed a "Doctor". But not the kind you have in mind.

You see, persons who pursue a particular form of higher-education research on a specific topic may earn what is called a "PhD." [_philosophiae doctor_].

This is quite different from persons who earn a _medical degree_, becoming a physician, and who also is referred to as "Doctor".

Hope this helps clear things up for you.



:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

That gag might have worked if I had even used the word "doctor." Nobody cares about how long you spent in school.



CubaMark said:


> OH! I see! Sorry, I didn't realize your confusion.
> 
> I am indeed a "Doctor". But not the kind you have in mind.
> 
> You see, persons who pursue a particular form of higher-education research on a specific topic may earn what is called a "PhD." [_philosophiae doctor_].
> 
> This is quite different from persons who earn a _medical degree_, becoming a physician, and who also is referred to as "Doctor".
> 
> Hope this helps clear things up for you.
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## eMacMan

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/pol...ump-No-building-border-wall-with-15090806.php

Actually the solution for the Trump Wall is sitting right under his combover. Start with Mexican material suppliers, negotiate the meanest deal you can, then when it comes time to pay insist on renegotiating to 1/3rd of the original contract. If the suppliers try to sue, point out there are laws in place to prevent them from suing the American government.

The labour problem is even easier. Hire illegal Mexicans on contract, at 1/3rd the price of American labour, pay 6 weeks in arrears, then when the contract is up deport them without paying the last 6 weeks. He can even recruit them at the detention centres with promises of a leg up on citizenship.

Should make perfect sense to the typical warped mind in Washington, and much better than stealing from the Navy at a time the deep state is pushing for a nuclear war with Russia and China. 

Most importantly it largely fulfills his promise of building his wall on the backs of Mexicans.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Curious. When I was in university PhD always meant _Piled higher & Deeper._ It was two steps above yer average BS _(Bull$h!t)_ degree and one above MS _(More of the Same)..._



CubaMark said:


> You see, persons who pursue a particular form of higher-education research on a specific topic may earn what is called a "PhD." [_philosophiae doctor_].


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious. When I was in university PhD always meant _Piled higher & Deeper._ It was two steps above yer average BS _(Bull$h!t)_ degree and one above MS _(More of the Same)..._




You’ve revealed far more about yourself than you have about anything else with this comment.


----------



## FeXL

Right? This dumb, *******, neocon, fascist, racist, gun-loving, politically incorrect, Harley riding Globull Warming sceptic Nazi went to university.

Sonuvabitch...

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’ve revealed far more about yourself than you have about anything else with this comment.


----------



## Macfury

I think you have, as well.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’ve revealed far more about yourself than you have about anything else with this comment.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Right? This dumb, *******, neocon, fascist, racist, gun-loving, politically incorrect, Harley riding Globull Warming sceptic Nazi went to university.
> 
> Sonuvabitch...
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


I never understood the personal pride people express in themselves for remaining in school longer than others. Do what you need to do to get the job you want. Don't expect social recognition for your choices.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I never understood the personal pride people express in themselves for remaining in school longer than others. Do what you need to do to get the job you want. Don't expect social recognition for your choices.


The funny thing is that saying actually came from one of my profs. He was pretty humble and, like many, didn't put on airs. Was he bright? Absolutely! However, he never rubbed your nose in it. 

On the other hand, I also had a few arrogant, egotistical, self-centered profs that demanded deference simply because of their Piled higher & Deeper. Generally speaking, I tended to get along far batter with the former than the latter.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The funny thing is that saying actually came from one of my profs. He was pretty humble and, like many, didn't put on airs. Was he bright? Absolutely! However, he never rubbed your nose in it.
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I also had a few arrogant, egotistical, self-centered profs that demanded deference simply because of their Piled higher & Deeper. Generally speaking, I tended to get along far batter with the former than the latter.




Let me guess: the PhD profs you didn’t like turned out to be progs too.


----------



## FeXL

Dunno. Back in those days I was fairly apolitical. Never got into it much. The few profs who would join us for a cold one rarely discussed politics, either. Classes, research, that sort of thing. I did attend a couple rally's critical of the PC's handling of a few things (mostly education spending, if memory serves) & I went to a protest against the construction of the Oldman River dam once. Fruit Fly Guy was there. Didn't care for him much. That carries on today.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Let me guess: the PhD profs you didn’t like turned out to be progs too.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Dunno. Back in those days I was fairly apolitical. Never got into it much. The few profs who would join us for a cold one rarely discussed politics, either. Classes, research, that sort of thing. I did attend a couple rally's critical of the PC's handling of a few things (mostly education spending, if memory serves) & I went to a protest against the construction of the Oldman River dam once. Fruit Fly Guy was there. Didn't care for him much. That carries on today.


It's odd. My conservative profs never really talked politics. The progs seemed rabid about it, even going so far as to teach off the course outline on material that would never be tested, and then removing questions from exam marking schemes featuring material that should have been covered.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Dunno. Back in those days I was fairly apolitical. Never got into it much. The few profs who would join us for a cold one rarely discussed politics, either. Classes, research, that sort of thing. I did attend a couple rally's critical of the PC's handling of a few things (mostly education spending, if memory serves) & I went to a protest against the construction of the Oldman River dam once. Fruit Fly Guy was there. Didn't care for him much. That carries on today.




I’m impressed.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> It's odd. My conservative profs never really talked politics. The progs seemed rabid about it, even going so far as to teach off the course outline on material that would never be tested, and then removing questions from exam marking schemes featuring material that should have been covered.


Interesting. Save the two that I have remained friends/acquaintances with over the years, I honestly couldn't tell you the political affiliation of any of my profs. I could guess at some of them but others I wouldn't have a clew. I was fortunate in that the topic never came up.


----------



## FeXL

???



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m impressed.


----------



## CubaMark

*EPA scientists found a toxic chemical damages fetal hearts. The Trump White House rewrote their assessment.* 
[Reveal: The Center for Investigative Reporting]

_Reveal has obtained a copy of a roughly 700-page draft evaluation that was signed off on by EPA scientists before it was sent out for review in December to the White House and several federal agencies. In that internal report, EPA scientists detailed methodological limitations in DeSesso’s study – it “was likely to miss” an important category of cardiac malformations – and found Johnson’s study to be so definitive that they used it as a benchmark for their calculations of unsafe exposure to TCE.

With this benchmark, the internal report had come to an entirely different conclusion: Even trace exposure to TCE is unsafe because it can deform fetal hearts.

The White House had directed the EPA to override the findings of its own scientists._​


----------



## Macfury

The Center for Investigative Reporting is funded by the Open Society Foundations of George Soros.



CubaMark said:


> *EPA scientists found a toxic chemical damages fetal hearts. The Trump White House rewrote their assessment.*
> [Reveal: The Center for Investigative Reporting]


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Planned Parenthood, with whom you have zero issues, conducts nearly 1000 abortions/day.

Why this sudden concern with fetal hearts?



CubaMark said:


> EPA scientists found a toxic chemical damages fetal hearts.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The Center for Investigative Reporting is funded by the Open Society Foundations of George Soros.


Is their reporting incorrect? 

Did the White House not change the EPA scientists' conclusions?

If a "prog" told you the house was on fire, but you didn't smell any smoke, would you happily burn to death because you didn't like the messenger?

This is what the CIR says about their Editorial Independence:

_We subscribe to standards of editorial independence adopted by the Institute for Nonprofit News.

Our organization retains full authority over editorial content, maintaining a firewall between news coverage decisions and the pursuit of revenue. Accepting financial support does not constitute implied or actual endorsement of donors or their products, services or opinions.

We accept gifts, grants and sponsorships from individuals and organizations for the general support of our activities, but all editorial decisions are made independently, not on the basis of donor support. At times, we accept support for coverage of particular topics, but those topics are determined by our editorial staff, and we maintain full editorial control of the resulting coverage. Donors receive no preferential coverage, have no right to review editorial content before it is published and do not influence the direction or findings of our reporting in any way.

We do not accept donations from government entities, political parties, elected officials or candidates actively seeking public office, nor do we accept donations from sources who our board of directors deem could present a conflict of interest with our work or compromise our editorial independence.

The Center for Investigative Reporting is a registered 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization, Fed ID #94-2434026. Your gift is tax-deductible to the extent allowed by law. No goods or services are provided in exchange for your contribution._​


----------



## Macfury

This loan was certified by the borrower.



CubaMark said:


> Is their reporting incorrect?
> 
> Did the White House not change the EPA scientists' conclusions?
> 
> If a "prog" told you the house was on fire, but you didn't smell any smoke, would you happily burn to death because you didn't like the messenger?
> 
> This is what the CIR says about their Editorial Independence:
> 
> _We subscribe to standards of editorial independence adopted by the Institute for Nonprofit News.
> 
> Our organization retains full authority over editorial content, maintaining a firewall between news coverage decisions and the pursuit of revenue. Accepting financial support does not constitute implied or actual endorsement of donors or their products, services or opinions.
> 
> We accept gifts, grants and sponsorships from individuals and organizations for the general support of our activities, but all editorial decisions are made independently, not on the basis of donor support. At times, we accept support for coverage of particular topics, but those topics are determined by our editorial staff, and we maintain full editorial control of the resulting coverage. Donors receive no preferential coverage, have no right to review editorial content before it is published and do not influence the direction or findings of our reporting in any way.
> 
> We do not accept donations from government entities, political parties, elected officials or candidates actively seeking public office, nor do we accept donations from sources who our board of directors deem could present a conflict of interest with our work or compromise our editorial independence.
> 
> The Center for Investigative Reporting is a registered 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization, Fed ID #94-2434026. Your gift is tax-deductible to the extent allowed by law. No goods or services are provided in exchange for your contribution._​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

With all the mistruths, fake news, quotes out of context, partisan pap and outright lies promulgated by the Prog MSM, why is this particular item suddenly newsworthy? Because, in the midst of all the Prog bull$h!t, there may be a single, solitary issue coming from the political right?

Asking for a friend.



CubaMark said:


> Is their reporting incorrect?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> With all the mistruths, fake news, quotes out of context, partisan pap and outright lies promulgated by the Prog MSM, why is this particular item suddenly newsworthy? Because, in the midst of all the Prog bull$h!t, there may be a single, solitary issue coming from the political right?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


He takes what the outrage-aggregator supplies for him to cut and paste.


----------



## SINC

*GOLDSTEIN: Trump’s America leads the world in cutting greenhouse gases*



> While Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he wants Canada to lead the world in reducing industrial greenhouse gas emissions linked to climate change, the country that led the world in doing it last year was President Donald Trump’s United States.
> 
> In a report this month from the authoritative, Paris-based, International Energy Agency: “The United States saw the largest decline in energy-related CO2 (carbon dioxide) emissions in 2019 on a country basis — a fall of 140 Mt (megatonnes) or 2.9%, to 4.8 Gt (gigatonnes). US emissions are now down almost 1 Gt from their peak in 2000, the largest absolute decline by any country over that period.”
> 
> This dramatic drop in US emissions was a significant factor in flattening global emissions at 33 Gt in 2019 after two years of increases, and despite the global economy growing by 2.9%, including increased emissions in China and India.


More at the link.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...lU08OpG7zKXxG70Dc77NwBxb-Y1NcMlj0345mMzYOePrI


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

Federal Judge Orders Hillary Clinton to Sit for Deposition About Her Use of Illegal Private Server



> Within 75 days.
> 
> Oh, and also, Hillary Clinton has scheduled the judge to die by suicide within 60 days.
> 
> #BREAKING: Federal court orders Hillary Clinton to sit for deposition in lawsuit over her time as Secretary of State. The court order requires Hillary Clinton to sit for a deposition within 75 days, as part of the discovery process into her use of a private server.
> — Sean Langille (@SeanLangille) March 2, 2020​


----------



## FeXL

Progs: There is simply not a voter registration issue. Certainly not enough to make a difference. Nope. No way...

Pittsburgh County Sued Over Dead, Duplicate Registrants on Voter Rolls



> Allegheny County, home to the city of Pittsburgh, has been hit with a lawsuit over irregularities on its voter rolls, including dead voters, duplicate registrants, and one registered voter marked as being born in June 1800.
> 
> The Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF), an election integrity group, filed suit last week against Allegheny County's manager of elections and three members of its board of elections. The group says election officials failed to reasonably maintain the county's voter rolls in accord with federal and state law. The suit alleges that the rolls contain nearly 1,600 dead registrants and 7,500 registrants with erroneous information, among thousands of other discrepancies and illegal registrations.
> 
> The lawsuit, which comes less than eight months before the 2020 elections, concerns a heavily Democratic county in an important battleground state. Donald Trump won Pennsylvania by 44,000 votes out of the 5.9 million votes cast in the state (less than 1 point) during the 2016 election. Hillary Clinton and other Democratic leaders have attributed high-profile Democratic losses to "voter suppression," but *PILF has found tens of thousands of ineligible registrations in battleground states.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

Is America Ready for Polygamy?



> Utah, where 60 percent of the population belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), is considering the decriminalization of polygamy. The GOP-controlled Utah state Senate recently passed such a bill, unanimously. Is America ready for this? Polygamy, illegal in all 50 states, is practiced in the U.S. by fundamentalist LDS sects (FLDS), primarily in isolated pockets of Utah and Arizona. Contrary to the impression created by the reality TV show Sister Wives, polygamous households in the U.S. are very uncommon, comprising approximately 10,000 people in FLDS and related groups. (Despite the popular connection to the Mormon faith, a far greater number of Muslims — as many as 50,000 to 100,000 — live in polygamous households in the United States.) Only 17 percent of the American public approves of polygamy — up from just 7 percent in 2003.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Is America Ready for Polygamy?


Why bother policing it? Just make sure that public programs benefit only one spouse.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Why bother policing it? Just make sure that public programs benefit only one spouse.



Amen or that spousal benefits remain the same total. So if some guy has 10 wives and they each try to claim half of his Social Security what they actually get is 5% each.


(The way it works in the US is if a woman has not earned Social Security benefits she is entitled to an SS amount that is half the income which her husband receives.)


----------



## Macfury

Sounds good to me!


----------



## FeXL

ORANGEMANBAD!!!

Trump donates 100k of his salary to HHS for coronavirus…



> Today Trump donated 100k of his yearly salary to Health and Human Services to use for the Coronavirus:
> 
> President @realDonaldTrump made a commitment to donate his salary while in office. Honoring that promise and to further protect the American people, he is donating his 2019 Q4 salary to @HHSGov to support the efforts being undertaken to confront, contain, and combat #Coronavirus. pic.twitter.com/R6KUQmBRl1
> 
> — Stephanie Grisham (@PressSec) March 3, 2020​


And from Prinz Dummkopf? Unscreened Iranian air travelers... :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL

:---(

So, Mini-Mike is out.

Wah.

Russia! Russia! Russia!



> Revisited.
> 
> Spot on, @MZHemingway:
> 
> “We had years where people were saying a couple hundred thousand dollars in barely literate Facebook ads from Russians caused Donald Trump to win. Here you had a guy spend nearly a billion dollars and he went nowhere.”
> 
> pic.twitter.com/Erv3CWo4q4
> 
> — Benny (@bennyjohnson) March 5, 2020​


Related:

Salty.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

And, math is tough for Progs:

Your Moral And Intellectual Superiors

Perhaps Freddie can explain this to me...


----------



## FeXL

Fauxcahontas out too!

The End of the Trail of Tears: Warren Drops Out; Will Continue Her Fight To Tell Ludicrous Lies About Her Personal History as a Private Citizen



> Elizabeth Warren's departure from the race leaves the Democrat field exactly as diverse as when she was in it.
> 
> Shrill old nasty bat.


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

AZ House Passes Bill Banning Transgender Female Athletes from Competing in Girls Sports



> The Arizona House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban transgender females from participating in girls' sports. They call it the "Save Women's Sports Act" but what it will do is guarantee that female sports will become the next huge legal battleground in the culture wars.


Related:

Elizabeth Warren Bashes Trans Athlete Bill That Would Limit Girls’ Sports To Biological Females



> Democratic 2020 candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren came out Thursday against a proposed bill in Arizona that would limit girls’ sports to biological females.
> 
> Republican state Rep. Nancy Barto’s proposed bill would bar biologically male athletes who identify as transgender girls from competing in girls’ sports. The bill comes as biological males who identify as transgender have racked up victories in girls’ and women’s sports.


----------



## Beej

A problem with the dishonest way news media uses labels like sexist and racist is that people notice unintended underlying messages.

Democratic voters are not just racist but also sexist
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/democratic-voters-are-not-just-racist-but-also-sexist


> When Sens. Cory Booker and Kamala Harris dropped out the 2020 Democratic primary, members of the press blamed the failures of their campaigns on the racism of the American people.
> 
> Now, on March 5, following Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s announcement that she, too, is dropping out of the race, members of the press are blaming her failure on the sexism of the American people.
> 
> Those poor Democratic primary voters. You think members of the press would have a higher opinion of them by now, considering these are the same voters who placed President Obama in the White House and Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election. Guess not!


There's also this gem


> "This campaign was unabashedly feminist every single day that we were out here on the campaign trail,” said Vitali. “We obviously know now that we have two septuagenarian white men now left for Democratic voters to choose from."


Democratic Party voters are racist, sexist, and even anti-feminist. They're the alt-right incel neckbeards I've heard so much about? :lmao:

They should get a stern lecture from the far more open minded UK Conservative Party.


----------



## FeXL

Beej said:


> A problem with the dishonest way news media uses labels like sexist and racist is that people notice unintended underlying messages.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

The iron...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## SINC

A pretty powerful speech by Trump to open his campaign for re-election. If it is all true or not, I have never seen such a well delivered and controlled presentation by Trump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuYuxdPc_SA


----------



## eMacMan

SINC said:


> A pretty powerful speech by Trump to open his campaign for re-election. If it is all true or not, *I have never seen such a well delivered and controlled presentation by Trump.*


GIven the prez's past efforts that's a mighty low reference bar.

As to truth, he is both a politician and a promoter so when his lips were moving it's safest to figure he was lying until proven otherwise.


----------



## Beej

Some U.S. election humour, now that the field has narrowed.

The Primaries: Endgame - Democrats Assemble (edit: video removed, found another version that's close, but missing some features)
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/fdvyu0/the_primaries_endgame_moderates_assemble_scene/

This makes me want to cheer for Sanders.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Strongest Evidence Yet That America Is Botching Coronavirus Testing*

On Monday, Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, estimated that “by the end of this week, close to a million tests will be able to be performed” in the United States. On Wednesday, Vice President Mike Pence promised that “roughly 1.5 million tests” would be available this week.

But the number of tests performed across the country has fallen far short of those projections, despite extraordinarily high demand, The Atlantic has found.

“The CDC got this right with H1N1 and Zika, and produced huge quantities of test kits that went around the country,” Thomas Frieden, the director of the CDC from 2009 to 2017, told us. “I don’t know what went wrong this time.”

Through interviews with dozens of public-health officials and a survey of local data from across the country, The Atlantic could only verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the United States, about 10 percent of whom have tested positive. And while the American capacity to test for the coronavirus has ramped up significantly over the past few days, local officials can still test only several thousand people a day, not the tens or hundreds of thousands indicated by the White House’s promises.

(...)

The figures we gathered suggest that the American response to the coronavirus and the disease it causes, COVID-19, has been shockingly sluggish, especially compared with that of other developed countries. The CDC confirmed eight days ago that the virus was in community transmission in the United States—that it was infecting Americans who had neither traveled abroad nor were in contact with others who had. In South Korea, more than 66,650 people were tested within a week of its first case of community transmission, and it quickly became able to test 10,000 people a day. The United Kingdom, which has only 115 positive cases, has so far tested 18,083 people for the virus.

Normally, the job of gathering these types of data in the U.S. would be left to epidemiologists at the CDC. The agency regularly collects and publishes positive and negative test results for several pathogens, including multiple types of the seasonal flu. But earlier this week, the agency announced that it would stop publishing negative results for the coronavirus, an extraordinary step that essentially keeps Americans from knowing how many people have been tested overall.

(....)While the CDC is reporting 99 positive cases of the coronavirus in the United States, our data, and separate data from Johns Hopkins University, show that the true number is well above 200, including those on the Diamond Princess cruise ship.

The White House declined to comment.

The haphazard debut of the tests—and the ensuing absence of widespread data about the epidemic—has hamstrung doctors, politicians, and public-health officials as they try to act prudently during the most important week for the epidemic in the United States so far.

(....)

Today, more than a week after the country’s first case of community transmission, the most significant finding about the coronavirus’s spread in the United States has come from an independent genetic study, not from field data collected by the government. And no state or city has banned large gatherings or implemented the type of aggressive “social distancing” policies employed to battle the virus in Italy, Hong Kong, and other affluent places.

If the true extent of the outbreak were known through testing, the American situation would look worse. But health-care officials and providers would be better positioned to combat the virus. Hard decisions require data. For now, state and local governments don’t have the information they need.

(The Atlantic)​
*Related:*










*TRUMP:* “A lot of people will have this, and it’s very mild. They will get better very rapidly. They don’t even see a doctor … So, if we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.” — Fox News interview Wednesday.

*TRUMP:* “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work. This is just more Fake News.” — tweet Thursday.

(....)

*TRUMP: *“We’re talking about a vaccine. Maybe a cure is possible. But we’re talking about a vaccine and they’re moving along very quickly, all of the pharmaceutical companies, are moving along very quickly.” — remarks Monday.

*TRUMP:* The U.S. may have a vaccine “relatively soon” and “something that makes you feel better … sooner.” — North Carolina rally Monday.

*THE FACTS:* That’s misleading, given the far more cautious pronouncements of federal public health officials and scientists. They say a vaccine is probably more than a year away at best and there are no special treatments for COVID-19. The notion of a quick “cure” is not in their vocabulary as they focus on trying to help people avoid getting the disease in the first place.

What’s actually happening: Studies have begun in COVID-19 patients in parts of the world to see if certain antiviral medications could help treat the infection.

(Global News)​


----------



## Macfury

I do remember how you picked at Obama over his handling of Ebola. Nope... my mistake... crickets. Doesn't cognitive dissonance ever give you a splitting headache, CM?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Good to see whataboutism is alive and well.


----------



## Macfury

I guess you don't understand the term. That's OK.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good to see whataboutism is alive and well.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I do remember how you picked at Obama over his handling of Ebola. Nope... my mistake... crickets. Doesn't cognitive dissonance ever give you a splitting headache, CM?


Keerist. Have you read the latest? Now Trump is going to hold off on the election in November, using coronavirus as an excuse, and stay as POTUS forever.

And Prog idiots are hysterically buying into it!


----------



## eMacMan

I remember having a discussion about this with my uncle (not the minister) about 15 years ago. He was a retired US Air Force colonel from the Vietnam era.

I predicted something pretty much along these lines. He replied that the US had learned from its mistakes in Vietnam and was resolute that the US would not fail in Afghanistan.

I do wish he was still around. I bet he would agree that the US will somehow get sucked back into this black hole.

https://news.yahoo.com/didn-t-think-d-veterans-020308552.html



> Most veterans of the 18-year war in Afghanistan wouldn’t have predicted this was how the fightback after the attacks of 9/11 would end: with the U.S. President calling the conflict a waste of American blood and treasure, and a U.S. peace deal with the Taliban forcing Afghan officials to sit down with the militants and discuss dismantling a government the U.S. helped build.
> 
> The long-awaited U.S.-Taliban deal to end the war, signed on Feb. 29, has not had a smooth start. Days after it was penned, the militant group attacked Afghan forces in the south of the country, apparently over the Afghan government’s initial refusal to release 5,000 prisoners, a condition written into the deal before intra-Afghan talks can start. U.S. forces in Afghanistan, which have long provided air support to Afghan troops, bombed Taliban positions in response. Afghan President Ashraf Ghani has since agreed to release some of those prisoners, according to the U.S. Secretary of State, but it’s not clear how many, or if it’s enough to get both sides to show up for talks.


----------



## CubaMark

(deleted)


----------



## FeXL

Top Democrats slam Trump for possible payroll tax cut. But they loved it when Obama cut the payroll tax.



> In an effort to stymie an economic downturn triggered by coronavirus fears, President Donald Trump has reportedly proposed cutting payroll taxes.
> 
> According to CNBC, while meeting with Republicans on Tuesday, Trump suggesting cutting the payroll tax, which funds Social Security and Medicare, to 0% for the rest of the year. The potential cut is one option in the president's expected economic stimulus package meant to minimize financial damaged caused by coronavirus.
> 
> Unfortunately for Trump, Democrats are opposing the payroll tax cut.


----------



## FeXL

Communism vs dementia. Which is worse?

Or is Bill's Wife going to swoop in at the last minute & save everyone?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Joe Biden Forgets Year, Meanders Off Frame in Disastrous Livestream



> Grandpa Joe Biden wants to run the country and save us from coronavirus when he can’t even run a livestream and has no idea what year it is.
> 
> On Friday, Grandpa Joe held what his campaign billed as a “virtual town hall” in Illinois. In my colleague Kyle Olson’s must-read reporting on the event, you will discover the whole thing was a fiasco, like something out of a sitcom. Guests appeared and then disappeared. The sound was garbled. People were introduced, followed by an awkward pause when they didn’t appear. Babies cried…
> 
> “Biden seemed to be reading from a teleprompter, but the broadcast suffered from severe tech issues, as Biden’s words were caught in a feedback loop, muddying the whole presentation and making the candidate nearly indecipherable,” Olson reported.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Nominates Representative John Ratcliffe, Deep State Scourge, as Director of National Intelligence



> Trump will actually have _allies_ in high positions of government in his second term.
> 
> It's gonna get _lit._


----------



## FeXL

Double standards, much?

Mitt Romney: The Investigation Into Hunter Biden "Appears Political" and Therefore Must Not Be Undertaken by the Senate. And No, I'm Not Going to Explain Why I Supported the Obviously Political Investigation Into Trump in the Senate.



> Pierre Delecto's alt account speaks.
> 
> Via Tami.
> 
> Oh, and as you read this, keep this tidbit in mind:
> 
> Burisma faced a money-laundering investigation and questions over how it had obtained some of its licenses to drill for natural gas. In spring 2014, the company appointed Hunter Biden and a former Polish president, Aleksander Kwasniewski, to its board. Three years later, Burisma added Cofer Black, a former CIA official and foreign policy adviser to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, to the board.
> 
> "I believe the only reason Burisma and Zlochevsky were inviting people with such names was to whitewash their reputation and to present themselves as a company doing legitimate business in Ukraine," says Daria Kaleniuk, head of the nongovernmental Anti-Corruption Action Center in Kyiv.​
> You might wonder why no one in the establishment media of either political orientation asks Romney about this, or wonders about Romney's own conflict of interest.


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

Trump Announces The Government Will Begin Withholding Federal Funds From Sanctuary Cities and States; ICE Teams Up With the Border Patrol to "Flood the Streets" of Sanctuary Cities and Arrest as Many Illegals as Possible



> Would any other Republican have done this?
> 
> Answer: No, of course not. _And this is why they oppose Trump._
> 
> Although they talk about "principles" and "virtue" and "civility" and even "Christianity," all of these are smokescreens -- they use these words to attract conservatives to their cause, because they know they can't expect conservatives to join their _actual cause_, if they admit it.
> 
> Their cause is open borders. Always has been.


Trump administration launches new unit to strip US citizenship from foreign-born terrorists, criminals



> The Trump administration is establishing a new section within the Justice Department to deal with the process of removing citizenship from foreign-born individuals who fraudulently obtained citizenship by failing to disclose past convictions for serious crimes -- including terrorism and war crimes.


----------



## FeXL

Curious how the bottom fell out of Schemer's threat in a MSM hurry.

Josh Hawley and 14 Other Senators Introduce Motion to Censure Charles Schumer Over His Threat to Supreme Court Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh



> And Andy Biggs introduced a similar resolution in the House.
> 
> But that one Nancy Pelosi can block by simply never scheduling a vote.
> 
> I don't think anyone could, or would, block a vote on the Senate resolution.
> 
> Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer may become only the ninth senator in the body’s history to be censured by his colleagues.
> 
> Lawmakers in the Senate and House introduced resolutions to censure him Thursday, a day after Schumer made inflammatory comments that seemed to some to advocate violence if two Supreme Court justices did not rule his way in an abortion case.​


----------



## FeXL

'Bout halfway down the page, under the heading, "AMNESTY, IMMIGRATION, BORDER CRISIS, BORDER SECURITY"

The Morning Report - 3/6/20



> Lastly, remember the Cuban man who waved an American flag out in the open at some Commie parade in Havana? Evidently he's alive and well, exiled in Guyana, and fearing for his life. *He wants to come to the US but wants to enter legally. I would love it if PDT would champion this man's cause, not just because it would be the right thing to do but because you just know the Democrat-Media Complex will oppose it.*


Bold mine.

Yeppers.


----------



## eMacMan

So the Orangeman's big stock rally was caused by the Federal reserve deciding to kick up to a Trillion$ dollars into the stock market to offset the selling.

Great for those members of elite who failed to strip before the plunge but does nothing for the taxpaying citizen.


----------



## SINC

eMacMan said:


> So the Orangeman's big stock rally was caused by the Federal reserve deciding to kick up to a Trillion$ dollars into the stock market to offset the selling.
> 
> Great for those members of elite who failed to strip before the plunge but does nothing for the taxpaying citizen.


Well, I dunno. If it prevents the results of the last time the market collapsed in 1929, it may be money well spent.


----------



## CubaMark

(Twitter - George Takei)


----------



## Macfury

CM, you really ought to do a better job of hiding your Trekkie underpants. Takei is an idiot. 75 million infections was not containment.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Takei is an idiot. 75 million infections was not containment.


No argument about the first.

On the second, close enough for gov't work.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The position of that nacelle is rather disturbing...


----------



## Beej

Macfury said:


> CM, you really ought to do a better job of hiding your Trekkie underpants. Takei is an idiot. 75 million infections was not containment.


I don't think the 1 million in a month claim is true either. It was blurted out on twitter by a former Biden Chief of Staff (Klain), and taken as gospel. Later checks of CDC information put the number at 5,000.


----------



## CubaMark

Texas Lt. Gov Dan Patrick said tonight, on Fox News (of course) that grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.

_"We've sure come a long way from "Obamacare will kill our nation's cherished seniors" to "Okay we need the olds to die because the stock market is too low and we have an election coming up." _- @bryantylercohen


(Raging Pencils)​


----------



## Macfury

Patrick said that he would be willing to do that, and that some others had said the same. I know that self-sacrifice is a tough pill for progs to swallow. 

On the other hand when Gaia worshiping global warmists state that people who disagree with them should be killed, you politely hold your tongue. 

Pathetic.




CubaMark said:


> Texas Lt. Gov Dan Patrick said tonight, on Fox News (of course) that grandparents would be willing to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.
> 
> _"We've sure come a long way from "Obamacare will kill our nation's cherished seniors" to "Okay we need the olds to die because the stock market is too low and we have an election coming up." _- @bryantylercohen
> 
> 
> (Raging Pencils)​


----------



## FeXL

Calling the ehMac Prog Gaffe Police!!!

Joe Biden’s Teleprompter Malfunctions During First Coronavirus Update; Calls MA Governor Charlie ‘Parker’



> Joe Biden’s new foray into regular video updates about coronavirus stumbled out of the gate as the teleprompter malfunctioned and he called the sitting Massachusetts governor by the wrong name.
> 
> Biden was speaking behind a podium when he began verbally stumbling around, as if he wasn’t sure what to say, or was buying time.
> 
> “Beef up the number of responders dealing with the crush — these crush of cases. And, uh, and in addition to that,” he said, looking down at his notes, before he waved his hand upward under the podium to conceal it.
> 
> “And in addition to that we to, um, make sure that we, uh, we are in a position that we are, well, let me go to the second thing. I spoke enough of that,” Biden said, before trying to move on from the blunder.
> 
> Biden called the current Massachusetts governor “Charlie Parker,” a jazz saxophonist from the 1950s.


_Definitely_ presidential material. 

Trump is not the be-all & end-all, by any stretch. However, he's head, shoulders, ass & ankles above Sleepy Joe...


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Calling the ehMac Prog Gaffe Police!!!
> 
> Joe Biden’s Teleprompter Malfunctions During First Coronavirus Update; Calls MA Governor Charlie ‘Parker’
> 
> _Definitely_ presidential material.
> 
> Trump is not the be-all & end-all, by any stretch. However, he's head, shoulders, ass & ankles above Sleepy Joe...


I think the bar which presidential candidates must step over is now located at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. I guess the good news is that it can't be set any lower.


----------



## FeXL

How Trump Made the Federal Courts Blink



> A quick back-and-forth occurred over the last week between President Trump and the nation's federal judges. After lying to Attorney General Barr about seeking a minimum sentence, the prosecutors in the Roger Stone case (including two from the Mueller Crew) entered a harsh sentencing recommendation that he serve a decade behind bars for lying to Congress. President Trump rightly criticized the prosecutors for their double standard in persecuting one of his political allies while leaving Hillary, Huma, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, and countless others free to lie, destroy evidence, and obstruct investigations with impunity. The president lit into Judge Amy Berman Jackson while Twitter-jousting by noting that she had not only presided over this political prosecution, gagging Roger Stone in the process, but also allowed the malicious prosecution of the president's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, denying him bail and leaving him in solitary confinement during his trial.
> 
> Well, the Deep State collectively fainted.


----------



## FeXL

ICE ignores California laws and arrests illegal aliens at the courthouse door



> In 2018, California implemented the California Values Act, which gave special protection to illegal aliens by mandating that California law enforcement agencies cannot cooperate with federal immigration authorities. Last week, Immigration and Customs Enforcement ("ICE") thumbed its nose at California and arrested two people in Sonoma County Superior Court.


:clap::clap::clap:

Related:

Aliens Arrested by ICE Last Year Had Been Convicted of 1,549 Homicides



> The removable aliens that Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested in the United States in fiscal 2019 *included individuals who had been convicted of 1,549 homicides*, according to data published in a report by the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security.


Bold mine.

Just fine, upstanding citizens who vote for the left...


----------



## FeXL

Joe Biden's Accelerating Dementia Is a Big Story Even On Sky News Australia



> I had been told that it was critically important that we have a president who is not an object of ridicule among the citizens of the world.
> 
> Well, they're laughing at Joe Biden in Australia.


----------



## eMacMan

Lord knows I am no fan of GMs. They have a horrid habit of keeping the worst parts alive and completely screwing things up anything that works perfectly by attempting to improve it.

Still kudos on this one.
https://driving.ca/features/feature...-completely-committed-to-building-ventilators



> It was, no word of a lie, the tweet heard around the (automotive) world. On Friday, March 27 at 11:16 a.m., Donald Trump lambasted General Motors for not being committed to building the ventilators that the president has suddenly deemed necessary, actually singling out CEO Mary Barra personally for always being “a mess” to deal with. The implication was direct and unavoidable; GM was not a good corporate citizen, was dragging its feet in helping America in this time of greatest need, and worse yet, was looking for “top dollar” profit on the backs of the sick and dying. It was, if true, as despicable and vile an act of corporate greed and malfeasance as can be imagined.
> 
> There’s only one problem, and I will use the president’s favoured grammatical exclamation — i.e. all caps — for emphasis: *IT WAS NOT TRUE*.
> 
> This is the real story of GM’s response to America’s call for ventilators:


----------



## Macfury

I'm up in the air on this one. I'm not sure how Booth happens to know all of the stuff he says he knows on this.



eMacMan said:


> Lord knows I am no fan of GMs. They have a horrid habit of keeping the worst parts alive and completely screwing things up anything that works perfectly by attempting to improve it.
> 
> Still kudos on this one.
> https://driving.ca/features/feature...-completely-committed-to-building-ventilators


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I'm up in the air on this one. I'm not sure how Booth happens to know all of the stuff he says he knows on this.


I am thinking a direct feed from GM in a similar manner to the way the Bill Gates Corona Virus simulation is pumping all the Corona Virus 'news' to the lamestream.


----------



## FeXL

DNC Agrees With Joey "Fingers" Biden on Need to Postpone or _Cancel_ Democratic National Convention



> Scheduled for July, but apparently it will be delayed or outright cancelled.
> 
> Update: It's now been scheduled for August 17-21.
> 
> I guess they'll do an "online convention," maybe?


More:



> On The Hill's podcast, there's even speculation that Biden will refuse a face-to-face debate, insisting on a Skype "debate."
> 
> That would have the not-unwanted effect for Biden of driving down ratings and causing most of the public to not see him babbling incoherently like an old man lost in the Walmart parking lot.
> 
> The media has pushed Trump to accept a phone call from Joe Biden, so that Trump may have the benefit of the Sage of Scranton's expertise in epidemiology.
> 
> I say: Okay, but require Biden (and Trump) to make the phone call a video phone call.
> 
> Why? Because otherwise Joe Biden is going to have gotcha questions fed to him by aides.


----------



## FeXL

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> They couldn’t help themselves. It was in their nature.
> 
> The Justice Department inspector general said it does “not have confidence” in the FBI’s FISA application process following an audit that found the Bureau was not sufficiently transparent with the court in 29 applications from 2014 to 2019, all of which included “apparent errors or inadequately supported facts.”​


Related:

Major Errors Found In All 29 of the FISA Warrants The IG Has Reviewed



> The best and the brightest straight-shooting paladins.
> 
> Trust your government masters.


----------



## SINC

*Putting Jared Kushner In Charge Is Utter Madness*

Trump’s son-in-law has no business running the coronavirus response.



> Reporting on the White House’s herky-jerky coronavirus response, Vanity Fair’s Gabriel Sherman has a quotation from Jared Kushner that should make all Americans, and particularly all New Yorkers, dizzy with terror.
> 
> According to Sherman, when New York’s governor, Andrew Cuomo, said that the state would need 30,000 ventilators at the apex of the coronavirus outbreak, Kushner decided that Cuomo was being alarmist. “I have all this data about I.C.U. capacity,” Kushner reportedly said. “I’m doing my own projections, and I’ve gotten a lot smarter about this. New York doesn’t need all the ventilators.” (Dr. Anthony Fauci, the country’s top expert on infectious diseases, has said he trusts Cuomo’s estimate.)
> 
> Even now, it’s hard to believe that someone with as little expertise as Kushner could be so arrogant, but he said something similar on Thursday, when he made his debut at the White House’s daily coronavirus briefing: “People who have requests for different products and supplies, a lot of them are doing it based on projections which are not the realistic projections.”
> 
> Kushner has succeeded at exactly three things in his life. He was born to the right parents, married well and learned how to influence his father-in-law. Most of his other endeavors — his biggest real estate deal, his foray into newspaper ownership, his attempt to broker a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians — have been failures.


More at the link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/...iSv2Y5MexcyKUWzzsSQUkKiMIq32my_QkfmDjbVXbvZZY


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> *Putting Jared Kushner In Charge Is Utter Madness*
> 
> Trump’s son-in-law has no business running the coronavirus response.
> 
> 
> 
> More at the link.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/...iSv2Y5MexcyKUWzzsSQUkKiMIq32my_QkfmDjbVXbvZZY


As of today, the US has 5,800 critical cases of Coronavirus of which about 2,000 are in New York State. How many ventilators is Cuomo demanding again? Oh yeah, 30,000. How many ventilators did New York state have? Zero?


----------



## SINC

The lunacy continues . . .

*Coronavirus: Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada*



> U.S.-based company 3M said Friday that it has been asked by the Trump administration not to supply N95 respirators to Canada amid the novel coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump has ordered the Minnesota-based company to produce and sell as many medical-grade masks as the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) says it needs. He invoked the Defence Production Act in order to speed up the distribution of masks.
> 
> “The administration also requested that 3M cease exporting respirators that we currently manufacture in the United States to the Canadian and Latin American markets,” a statement from the company read.


An idiot in charge:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6772979/...oGWwZoiRuyMT0XBQXpxnp0YcxUJwU49JzCDW4Tad2cu5k


----------



## Macfury

SINC said:


> The lunacy continues . . .
> 
> *Coronavirus: Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada*
> 
> 
> 
> An idiot in charge:
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/6772979/...oGWwZoiRuyMT0XBQXpxnp0YcxUJwU49JzCDW4Tad2cu5k


Why should American companies sell respirator masks to Canada when the US needs them?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Why should American companies sell respirator masks to Canada when the US needs them?


Especially when we gave all ours away to the Commies in the hopes that they would eat us last...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Especially when we gave all ours away to the Commies in the hopes that they would eat us last...


The Chinese sold them to the Italians already, so maybe we can get some from Italy.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> As of today, the US has 5,800 critical cases of Coronavirus of which about 2,000 are in New York State. How many ventilators is Cuomo demanding again? Oh yeah, 30,000. How many ventilators did New York state have? Zero?


Are you saying that they have reached the apex?


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Are you saying that they have reached the apex?


Not at all. But they already have about 15,000 ventilators.

They would need to reach about two million simultaneous cases (none of them recovered) to need those 30,000 ventilators.

Cuomo's request:



> “I hope we don’t need 30,000 ventilators. I hope some natural weather change happens overnight and kills the virus globally. That’s what I hope, but that’s my hope. That’s my emotion. That’s my thought. The numbers say you may need 30,000."


His "emotion" is not making any statistical sense.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Why should American companies sell respirator masks to Canada when the US needs them?


Interesting how quickly your faith in the free market to manage itself evaporates....


----------



## smashedbanana

2373 critical cases in New York state is what I have read with 92,000 confirmed cases there so far. With the density of New York city, with with a statewide population of 20 million people, and a rapid increase in all COVID numbers I don't really see the ventilator number as ridiculous. Sadly I think we are going to see much higher numbers coming out of NY....


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

It's called _Supply & Demand._

Still very much a cornerstone of the Free Market system. And, if that changes, then it's because of gov't interference (=no longer Free Market).



CubaMark said:


> Interesting how quickly your faith in the free market to manage itself evaporates....


----------



## Macfury

Why do you think my faith has evaporated?



CubaMark said:


> Interesting how quickly your faith in the free market to manage itself evaporates....


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> 2373 critical cases in New York state is what I have read with 92,000 confirmed cases there so far. With the density of New York city, with with a statewide population of 20 million people, and a rapid increase in all COVID numbers I don't really see the ventilator number as ridiculous. Sadly I think we are going to see much higher numbers coming out of NY....


We'll see who is right: you, me, Cuomo or Kushner. Looks to me like Cuomo is trying to hoard ventilators like some people hoard toilet paper;


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Tiedrich has never had a way with a glib joke.


----------



## FeXL

Sounds precisely like Cuomo and ventilators...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Sounds precisely like Cuomo and ventilators...


Cuomo was only asking for twice as many ventilators as required by the entire country. Give the prog a beak.


----------



## eMacMan

Given that the chances of coming off the ventilators alive are pretty poor, they might be better trying different approaches. 

Besides the one for which Trump was unfairly ridiculed, there is also blood serum transfusions taken from those who have survived.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Cuomo was only asking for twice as many ventilators as required by the entire country. Give the prog a beak.


Please explain your numbers.

He requested double the national stockpile, which is depleted.

Required ventilators is unknown. But even with on hand units (160,000) and the national stockpile (~15000) it all falls short.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Given that the chances of coming off the ventilators alive are pretty poor, they might be better trying different approaches.
> 
> Besides the one for which Trump was unfairly ridiculed, there is also blood serum transfusions taken from those who have survived.


Ventilator with sedation is the only option once you can't breath on your own (type II cells attacked, immune response mounted).


----------



## Macfury

Falls short of what? Cuomo's demands?

8,900 serious cases of coronavirus in the entire country. New York has one third of the national total. Even counting about 3,500 serious cases in NY requiring ventilators as of April 6, who in their right mind would allocate 30,000 ventilators to New York state?



smashedbanana said:


> Please explain your numbers.
> 
> He requested double the national stockpile, which is depleted.
> 
> Required ventilators is unknown. But even with on hand units (160,000) and the national stockpile (~15000) it all falls short.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Given that the chances of coming off the ventilators alive are pretty poor, they might be better trying different approaches.
> 
> Besides the one for which Trump was unfairly ridiculed, there is also blood serum transfusions taken from those who have survived.


I've heard that supplying oxygen has a better outcome as the ventilators continue to damage lung tissue -- but this is only hearsay.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Falls short of what? Cuomo's demands?


Should have said falls short based on projections.



> 8,900 serious cases of coronavirus in the entire country. New York has one third of the national total. Even counting about 3,500 serious cases in NY requiring ventilators as of April 6, who in their right mind would allocate 30,000 ventilators to New York state?


New York state has about 119,000 cases. Creeping up on 1/3 of the entire US total. I'm not sure what's the determinant to say none can become serious.

Are you saying that the request should have been based only on the bare minimal serious case numbers as they stood at the day of the request?


----------



## Macfury

We already know how many serious cases are cropping up out of the total number of infections based on worst case scenarios in other countries. In Spain, one of the hardest hit counties, it's about 5%. In New York, roughly 3% are turning serious, and they're currently using 3,500 ventilators. 

Would I bet that New York will not be requiring an additional 30,000 ventilators, which will assume that New York has more cases than the entire world combined? Yup. The request is crazy. What do you tell Louisiana? Cuomo has all your ventilators because he quacked louder than you did?



smashedbanana said:


> Should have said falls short based on projections.
> 
> 
> 
> New York state has about 119,000 cases. Creeping up on 1/3 of the entire US total. I'm not sure what's the determinant to say none can become serious.
> 
> Are you saying that the request should have been based only on the bare minimal serious case numbers as they stood at the day of the request?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> We already know how many serious cases are cropping up out of the total number of infections based on worst case scenarios in other countries. In Spain, one of the hardest hit counties, it's about 5%. In New York, roughly 3% are turning serious, and they're currently using 3,500 ventilators.
> 
> Would I bet that New York will not be requiring an additional 30,000 ventilators, which will assume that New York has more cases than the entire world combined? Yup. The request is crazy. What do you tell Louisiana? Cuomo has all your ventilators because he quacked louder than you did?


Your numbers are off.

From today's briefing, just New York City: 
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/mayor-de-blasio-1000-1500-more-ventilators-needed-for-covid-19-patients-this-week/2360828/

Maybe you will be right, maybe Cuomo will be.

I think in the context of a public health emergency, one like never seen before there shouldn't be room for egos and I told you so's.


----------



## Macfury

That briefing is two days old and it features DeBlasio, not Cuomo. At the time, NYC is using 2,800 ventilators and wants 1,500 more. That's a reasonable request.



> I think in the context of a public health emergency, one like never seen before there shouldn't be room for egos and I told you so's


A public health emergency requires critical thinking skills and strategic deployment of resources. Only a massive ego like Cuomo possesses would try to corner the nation's ventilator supplies.




smashedbanana said:


> Your numbers are off.
> 
> From today's briefing, just New York City:
> https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/mayor-de-blasio-1000-1500-more-ventilators-needed-for-covid-19-patients-this-week/2360828/
> 
> Maybe you will be right, maybe Cuomo will be.


----------



## CubaMark

*Trump Just Tried to Explain Why Voting by Mail Is 'Corrupt' Except When He Does It, and the Hypocrisy Is Real*










Seconds after Trump said that mail-in voting was "horrible" and "corrupt," one White House correspondent pointed out that Trump—who became a Florida resident late last year—voted absentee in the state this month.

When asked how he reconciled that, Trump said:

"Because I'm allowed to...You know why I voted? Because I happened to be in the White House and I won't be able to go to Florida to vote. There's a big difference between somebody that's out of state and does a ballot and everything's sealed...and you get thousands and thousands of people sitting in somebody's living room signing ballots all over the place. No, I think mail-in voting is a terrible thing. I think if you vote, you should go...you look at what they do where they grab thousands of mail-in ballots and they dump it."​Wow.

(SecondNexus)​


----------



## Macfury

I wouldn't set a precedent with a "last-minute surge" in requests for absentee ballots to be submitted _following _an election either. Trump is right.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trump is right.


Racis'!!!


----------



## FeXL

Bernie Sanders Drops Out to Give Nomination to Senile Racist Credibly Accused of Rape



> Cowardly old goat.
> 
> A friend of mine says that Bernie is just "controlled opposition" -- a Socialist alternative who is controlled by the Democrat Establishment to make sure that Socialists remain in the party.
> 
> That's why Bernie Sanders refuses to ever damage a Democrat front-runner.
> 
> And that's why, my friend says, Alexandria Donkey-Chompers stopped supporting him a month and a half ago -- she got upset at his relentless unwillingness to ever take a shot at the Democrat establishment.
> 
> Sounds like a good theory -- except that part about Alexandria Donkey-Chompers figuring something out.
> 
> *That's preposterous.*


Bold mine.

<snort!>

Related:

Sanders drops out of presidential race



> Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) suspended his presidential bid on Wednesday, ending a campaign that once appeared on track to dominate the Democratic nominating contest but that quickly lost momentum.
> 
> Sanders began reevaluating his campaign after a string of primary losses last month. But he continued his push for the nomination for weeks before ultimately telling his staff in a conference call on Wednesday morning that he had decided to drop out of the race.
> 
> His decision to suspend his campaign effectively paves the way for former Vice President Joe Biden to claim the Democratic presidential nomination.


----------



## Macfury

Macfury said:


> That briefing is two days old and it features DeBlasio, not Cuomo. At the time, NYC is using 2,800 ventilators and wants 1,500 more. That's a reasonable request.
> 
> A public health emergency requires critical thinking skills and strategic deployment of resources. Only a massive ego like Cuomo possesses would try to corner the nation's ventilator supplies.


DeBlasio now says NYC has enough ventilators.


----------



## FeXL

Trump Calls for Elimination of “Ballot Harvesting,” Says “The USA Must Have Voter I.D., the Only Way to Get an Honest Count!”



> The Hill reports Virginia will no longer require voters to show a photo ID prior to casting a ballot and the state will join a handful of states across the nation in making Election Day a state holiday, Gov. Ralph Northam (D) announced Sunday.
> 
> *Northam said he signed a series of bills aimed at expanding access to voting.*


Bold mine.

'Course! It's the only way the Progs can get elected.

Related:

Mail-In Voting For November Election Over Coronavirus Opens Door For Fraud, Experts Say



> A growing chorus of Democrats are demanding that the entire U.S. vote by mail in November because of the coronavirus pandemic, but election experts say this could open the door to rampant fraud and mismanagement.
> 
> The GOP — including the president — stands largely against such a measure. *While election experts say there is no proof that mail-in voting helps Democrats*, they argue that history has proven that voting by mail is a precarious endeavor.


Bold mine.

Then why would they be pushing for it so hard? It must provide them some advantage...

Related, too:

Stopped Cold: True The Vote Ends Left’s Vote-by-Mail Scheme in New Mexico as National Battle Intensifies



> True The Vote (TTV), a grassroots organization supporting election integrity, on Tuesday stopped leftist efforts to force New Mexico to shift to a mail-in election system in the state’s upcoming June primary.


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

California State Election Official Confirms Double-Voting by Mail in Super Tuesday Primary



> Days before Super Tuesday, citizen watchdog group Election Integrity Project California sent a letter to Padilla requesting his office look into possible double voting in the 2020 primary election.
> 
> More than a month later, in a letter dated April 7, 2020, Padilla confirmed double-voting in one case and suspected double-voting by a number of other registered voters on Super Tuesday, according to the letter obtained by Breitbart News.


But by all means...go national with it!


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Team Trump Launches “I’m on Team Joe” Satire Ads Featuring MS-13, Hunter and Iran’s Ayatollah


----------



## FeXL

Disney heir criticises $1.5bn in bonuses and dividends as company cuts pay



> An heir to the Walt Disney fortune has criticised the company for protecting executive bonuses and dividends of more than $1.5bn (£1.2bn) while cutting the pay of more than 100,000 workers to help weather the financial impact of coronavirus.
> 
> Abigail Disney, an Emmy award-winning film-maker and a granddaughter of the company’s co-founder Roy Disney, launched a Twitter tirade against the world’s biggest entertainment group over its treatment of employees.


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> Disney heir criticises $1.5bn in bonuses and dividends as company cuts pay


Good to know it's business as usual at the top of the pyramid.


----------



## FeXL

A decade later & the situation hasn't improved...

Osama Bin Laden Plotted Barack Obama’s Assassination to Elevate ‘Totally Unprepared’ Joe Biden



> Osama bin Laden wanted to assassinate former President Barack Obama in the early 2010s as part of a plan to plunge the U.S. into crisis through the elevation of Joe Biden, whom the infamous terrorist leader believed was “totally unprepared” to serve as commander-in-chief.


----------



## FeXL

It was the Russkies!!!

John Brennan Buried Intel Showing Putin Wanted Hillary Clinton to Win 2016 Election: Fox News Report



> The Senate Intelligence Committee report falsely claims that “all analytical lines are supported with all-source intelligence” and that analysts who wrote the intelligence community assessment consistently said they “were under no politically motivated pressure to reach specific conclusions.”
> 
> House Intelligence Committee staff members found the opposite. They told me there was conflicting intelligence evidence on Russian motivations for meddling in the 2016 election.
> 
> More gravely, they said that *CIA Director Brennan suppressed facts or analysis that showed why it was not in Russia’s interests to support Trump and why Putin stood to benefit from Hillary Clinton’s election.* They also told me that Brennan suppressed that intelligence over the objections of CIA analysts.


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL

I realize it would take a constitutional amendment to make this happen but perhaps the time is nigh...

The Morning Rant



> I think I can say, without fear of contradiction, that the founders of this country never anticipated that elected federal officials would hang around forever. I think they thought elected officials would serve one or two terms and then go back home and get on with their lives. But here we are in 2020, and I've been seeing some of these same faces on TV and in print media for decades. And if you're curious about party breakdown, 17 out of the top 25 longest serving senators are, get this, Democrats. In the House, of the 29 members who have served for 40 or more years, 24 have been Democrats.
> 
> With some of these guys, it's like those African countries who are ruled by a guy who gets elected one time and is then president-for-life.
> 
> So I'm all for term limits. Bring 'em on. What's good enough for the President is good enough for Congress.


----------



## FeXL

I tried to warn the National Security Council about China — and was fired for it



> The societal implications of 5G — on how we live and how we work — are truly mind-boggling. And so is the capacity to abuse that power.
> 
> Let’s be totally clear: anything connected to an unsecured 5G network will be a potential weapon that can be used to gain geopolitical influence and control. If China were to control a 5G network, it would be able to weaponize the technology within entire cities — or entire countries — served by that network and hold that city or state at its mercy.


----------



## FeXL

Soros-Funded Muslim Group Associated With Homophobia, Terrorist Defenders Endorses Biden



> Biden 'honored' by endorsement


----------



## FeXL

Po', po', Malig-Nancy...

‘Nancy Antoinette’: Trump Campaign Ad Hammers Pelosi For Having Ice Cream Show-And-Tell While Small Businesses Ran Out Of Money



> President Donald Trump’s campaign released an advertisement Monday blasting Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi for focusing on eating ice cream instead of helping pass legislation that would benefit the American people, as the coronavirus continues to spread throughout the U.S.
> 
> “Americans are losing their jobs since the virus rocked the economy. Nancy Pelosi blocks funding for people to keep getting paychecks. But she’s got a $24K fridge full of ice cream, so she’s cool,” Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale said on Twitter.


----------



## FeXL

Sydney Powell: FBI Withheld Exculpatory Brady Material In Michael Flynn Case On Orders of...
_FBI Director Wray_

Links' emphasis.



> Do not permit Christopher Wray to return to his desk or computer. Just seize his Blackberry, seize his computer, seize his security badges, escort him out the door, and inform him that his personal effects and personal computer files will be sent to him later -- after they're inspected for evidence.
> 
> Heads must roll.
> 
> *And frankly, Trump needs to stop being a cuck and do the job we elected him to do.
> 
> I'm not going to keep defending him if he's going to be a ****ing pussy and simp every ****ing day.*
> 
> Federal Bureau of Investigations Director Christopher Wray fought to prevent exculpatory evidence from surfacing in the case of President Donald Trump's former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, a source with direct knowledge of the situation tells Daily Caller.
> 
> New court documents were filed in Flynn’s case Friday containing the aforementioned exculpatory evidence, commonly referred to as Brady Material. Flynn's attorney, Sidney Powell, announced the new filing on Twitter. She has repeatedly accused the FBI and Justice Department of hiding evidence in the case.​


Bold mine.

Yeppers.

Related:

The FBI Knew That Steele Lied About Leaking His "Research" to Yahoo News, But Lied to the FISA Court About It Anyway



> I don't know if anyone's going to jail -- leftwing juries will refuse to convict -- but I do think that some people will at least be charged.
> 
> Great twitter thread there, which I've copied below the fold.
> 
> Grassley and Ron Johnson are continuing to push cover-up artist Christopher Wray to release documents he's been withholding.


----------



## FeXL

Paging the ehMac Prog Gaffe Police!

The Sage of Scranton: "Is It Too Late to Aggress Climate Change?"



> You mean like you aggressed Tara Reade? How would that even work, Joey Fingers?
> 
> Joe Biden starts attacking Trump, forgets what he’s saying, then asks Al Gore if it’s “too late to aggress the climate change”
> 
> Watch Gore’s eyebrows: pic.twitter.com/7bA8CBieM1
> — Jewish Deplorable 🇺🇸 (@TrumpJew) April 22, 2020​
> He has about five seconds of Lost Time for good measure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this clip, we see Biden trying to get a jab in on Trump and he can’t even complete the line. He then randomly shifts to climate change, likely because it was the next thing on his notes in front of him. You can see Al Gore's eyebrows jump up as Biden seems to just lose his entire train of thought. Worse, the former VP begins to slur his words and becomes unable to form a sentence properly. He calls climate change "the climate change" like it's some foreign, alien idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Biden was enthusiastic about using coronavirus as a pretext to return America to a pre-industrial technological level.
Click to expand...

But Trump said you should eat fish tank cleaner!!!


----------



## FeXL

With Only 6 Members Participating, Senate Passed $483-Billion Spending Bill by ‘Unanimous Consent’



> The U.S. Senate on Tuesday passed a $483-billion spending bill to further aid Americans during the COVID-19 pandemic---with only six members of the 100-member Senate participating.
> 
> The bill was approved by the “unanimous consent” of senators—most of whom were not there when that approval was given.
> 
> There were likely more people in your local grocery store spending a few dollars on supplies for their families at that moment than were in the Senate chamber—where they were dispensing almost half a trillion dollars.


No quorum? :yikes:


----------



## FeXL

Who cares? It was only a cat.

Illegal Alien Arrested for Beheading Cat, Parading Severed Head on Stick



> An illegal alien has been arrested in Clearwater, Florida, for allegedly beheading his family’s cat and then displaying the severed head on a stick.
> 
> Joshua Daniel Pena-Cedillo, a 22-year-old illegal alien, was arrested last week by the Clearwater Police Department after officials said he allegedly beheaded his family’s cat, named Cinnamon, with an axe.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

Only for idiots who believe that Trump asked people to drink bleach. Nice going CM!


----------



## FeXL

Link dump on Trump & the FIB...

Christopher Steele Had Undisclosed Meetings With Clinton and DNC Lawyers, Who Were His "Sources" For the Deranged Alfa Bank Claims



> So some of his sources were also his clients paying him.
> 
> This gets better and better.
> 
> Let me guess: The original "sources" for this claim was Sydney Blumenthal and Cody Shearer, right?


—

Revealed Notes from Flynn Trap: "Get Him to Lie, So We Can Prosecute Or Get Him Fired"



> Andy McCarthy was on Tucker Carlson the other day. He stated that he did not know why prosecutors who had a taped recording of a previous interview would ask a subject all the same questions again.
> 
> There wasn't any point to it, he thought -- except for entrapment.
> 
> And that is what it says on the notes.
> 
> Pretty much.
> 
> More from RedState.
> 
> This is what Solomon told Dobbs (prior to the release of the documents):
> 
> "I think we're going to learn tonight or early tomorrow morning, we will see the release of some new handwritten notes that the FBI failed to turn over to General Flynn and his team in over the three-year course in this legal battle. And those notes are going to show that the FBI was engaged in a conversation about how they could trick General Flynn into lying. Rather resolve the issues that the investigation was designed to, there are references in these notes, according to my sources, to quote "play games." Do we want to resolve this or do we want to catch him in a lie? If those are in the notes as my sources described them, it will put the FBI’s work on the Flynn case in the darkest possible light. You'll actually have FBI proof that the FBI wasn’t trying to investigate facts neutrally, it was trying to quote "play a game."​


—


Joe DiGenova: FBI General Counsel James Baker Has "Flipped" and There's A Mole Inside the FBI
UPDATE: MORE DAMNING RECORDS RELEASED



> Joe DiGenova's track record isn't great, but he's definitely got my attention.
> 
> This doesn't seem to be something he's been told by a source, but rather something he deduces from articles in The Federalist.
> 
> DiGenova told Carr there is now a mole inside the FBI "who is leaking to the press about the current conduct of FBI Director Christopher Wray and his general counsel, Dana Boente.
> 
> "What's very clear is according to two stories, one in The Federalist and one in The Daily Caller, diGenova said, "is someone inside the FBI is now whistleblowing by leaking to the press about what’s going on and boy, it is just fascinating to watch the claim that Chris Wray and Dana Boente did everything they could to prevent the stuff from the Missouri U.S. attorney from being given to Flynn’s attorney. That is the beginning of a very ugly story."
> 
> 
> They discussed the nature of the documents which had been turned over to Sidney Powell last Friday, which we heard about last night. *But diGenova said something I had not heard before. He said that Jeff Sessions was talked into recusing himself from the Trump/Russia collusion case by Dana Boente who was then-Acting Deputy Attorney General.*​


—


Documents: FBI Found No Derogatory Information On Michael Flynn and Ordered the Investigation Into Him to Be Closed.
Then Trump Deranged Political Operative Peter Strzok Ordered the Case Be Reopened to Find _Any_thing.



> Necks need to be stretched.
> 
> Note that the documents refer to Flynn under the codename "CROSSFIRE RAZOR" or the abbreviated version, "Razor."
> 
> Sean Davis at The Federalist:
> 
> According to the FBI document, the federal law enforcement agency also asked a redacted agency, likely the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), to conduct a similar search of its own records for derogatory information against Flynn, who at the the time was the incoming National Security Adviser for then-President-elect Donald Trump.
> 
> "No derogatory information was reported back to the FBI," the memo concluded.​


—

Devin Nunes: It's Time To Criminally Investigate Every Single Mother****er Involved in the Michael Flynn Persecution



> And if any one of these mother****ers says something that's slightly different from a previous statement, throw them in jail.
> 
> And pre-dawn televised SWAT raids for the lot of them.
> 
> "I would say that we need the judge to do the right thing,” he said. “We need DOJ to do the right thing. We need these lawyers to be investigated. And I would say overall -- Maria, we talked about this on your Sunday show. I told you that there are three reports that really need to be analyzed and investigated. One, of course, is the Steele, Fusion GPS, Clinton paid-for dossier. The other is the intelligence community assessment that was done right after the 2016 election. That needs to be investigated, which I call Obama’s dossier. And then, of course, there’s the Mueller report, which is the Mueller dossier also in how I define them."
> 
> "There now needs to be an entire investigation of all of those people that were involved, all the lawyers, everybody from DOJ to FBI, all the way down because mostly likely this is -- because we have already found discrepancies in that Mueller report," he added.​


—

When The FBI Does It, That Means That It’s Not Illegal



> Relax, you won’t need a lawyer.
> 
> Flynn and McCabe have a past that predates the Trump presidency, one that provides ample motivation for the perjury trap that McCabe and James Comey set up after Flynn’s illegal unmasking. McCabe had a personal grudge against Flynn and the perjury trap was his revenge.​


----------



## eMacMan

Not sure I get what all the Führer is about. I think she should have changed the slogan to read: Gefängnis macht Frei, JB. Though that may have been a bit too subtle to penetrate the brain of an idiot.

https://news.yahoo.com/illinois-anti-lockdown-protester-waves-182600110.html


> An anti-lockdown protester in Illinois has been widely condemned for brandishing a sign bearing a Nazi slogan from the gates of Auschwitz concentration camp.
> 
> The woman, who has not been identified, was part of a group protesting to "Re-Open Illinois' in Chicago on Friday.
> 
> The sign, reading "Arbeit macht frei, JB" appeared to be addressed to Illinois Governor JB Pritzker - who is Jewish.
> 
> The German words translate to "work will set you free", the phrase that was hung above the gates of Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland where more than 1m people died at the hands of the Nazis during the Holocaust.


That said the original slogan was intended as a rather cruel taunt and I certainly see no reason not to taunt the idiots who have participated in robbing the nation of its most precious commodity; Freedom. Yep even those idiots who happen to be Jewish.


----------



## FeXL

Oh please, oh please, oh please...

A Hillary Clinton-Barack Obama ticket to replace Joe Biden? Is it even possible?



> Desperate times do indeed call for desperate measures. For the Democrats, a truly desperate time could come if Joe Biden is forced to withdraw from the presidential race. While the former vice president is the presumptive Democratic nominee to face off against President Trump in November, his nomination is still far from official.


----------



## FeXL

Stone Says Special Counsel Recommended ‘no jail time’ If He Turned On Trump. He Refused To Lie.



> Longtime Trump ally Roger Stone gave an explosive interview to the Sara Carter Show Monday, revealing that Special Counsel Prosecutor Jeannie Rhee had tried to pressure him on the contents of 29 phone conversations he shared with his good friend President Donald Trump during Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. He told this reporter that he refused to lie to the FBI and Special Counsel prosecutors against his friend and in the end that’s why the prosecutors brought erroneous charges against him that had nothing to do with their now-debunked Russia probe.
> 
> Stone, who is supposed to begin his 3-year jail sentence Friday, has seen his life and that of his family turned upside down. He has lost his home, his life savings, his insurance and his ability to make an income. He said in the end, he wonders if he’ll survive his jail sentence as a 67-year-old man due to the COVID19 outbreak, while others like disgraced lawyer Michael Avenatti have been released for 90 days due to the outbreak.


----------



## FeXL

_Not_ missing...

ProPublica: Millions of Vote-by-Mail Ballots Aren't 'Missing' — They're Just 'Most Likely in Landfills'



> A few weeks ago, my organization reported that federal data published by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission revealed a terrible problem with vote-by-mail. It turns out that tens of millions of ballots went missing, were rejected, went to the wrong address, and ultimately were never counted as valid votes.


----------



## FeXL

The iron...

States can declare martial law on citizens but can’t stop noncitizens from voting



> We have finally discovered a power that the courts feel a state does not have. At a time when states are violating our rights to life, liberty, and property, restricting free movement, regulating interstate commerce and travel, and forming interstate compacts – all against the most basic foundations of our Constitution – the courts have finally stepped in to limit state powers. A federal court has ruled states cannot … ask for proof of citizenship to vote.
> 
> On Wednesday, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Kansas cannot require proof of citizenship at voter registration to ensure that noncitizens don’t vote, pursuant to a law duly passed by the state legislature in 2011. The court reiterated a lower court ruling that somehow this violates the phantom Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment and that the state interest does “not justify the burden imposed on the right to vote.” *The two judges (the third passed away) concocted their own law that states must first “show that a substantial number of noncitizens registered to vote” before enacting such measures.*


Bold mine.

Isn't that a lot like closing the barn door _after_ the horse has headed out to pasture?


----------



## FeXL

Can't make this stuff up.

Steve Bullock, Who Called to Ban Super PACs, Linked to New Super PAC



> Montana's Democratic governor, Steve Bullock, who has called for eliminating super PACs, appears to have a new outside super PAC backing his Senate run.
> 
> The Big Sky Voters PAC—a Montana-based super PAC—was created April 23 and looks positioned to boost Bullock's Senate bid against incumbent Republican senator Steve Daines. Its treasurer previously held the same role for Bullock's similarly named Big Sky Values leadership PAC.


Recall during the last election I noted Bullock never used Dem colours nor the Dem name on his election signs? Just a slime ball...


----------



## SINC

*When the villain is Obama, not Trump, news suddenly becomes not worth reporting*



> So the United States has “the world’s highest rate of children in detention.” Is this worth reporting? Maybe, maybe not. Nevertheless, Agence France-Presse, or AFP, and Reuters did report it, attributing the information to a “United Nations study” on migrant children detained at the US-Mexico border.
> 
> Then the two agencies retracted the story. Deleted, withdrew, demolished. If they could have used one of those Men in Black memory-zappers on us, they would have. Sheepishly, the two news organizations explained that, you see, the UN data was from 2015 — part of a border crackdown that had begun years earlier.
> 
> We all know who the president was in 2015. It wasn’t evil, child-caging monster President Trump. It was that nice, compassionate, child-caging monster President Barack Obama.


https://nypost.com/2019/11/20/when-...lAgB4EU3tjxwmE_yCqwSUsdY6t4mi_KffK3FeeItfPwrg


----------



## CubaMark

SINC said:


> *When the villain is Obama, not Trump, news suddenly becomes not worth reporting*


The entire US immigration / border security framework and policies should be scrapped and rebuilt without the irrational fears of incoming migrant workers, the blatant racism promoted by certain political figures, and in recognition of the vital role these migrants play in keeping the U.S. economy functioning. 










It's true that detentions of children under Obama were similarly inhumane. But _the criticism of Trump was a change in policy that separated children from their parents_ by incarcerating undocumented migrants en masse, rather than releasing them on their own recognizance if they had community ties or fast-tracking deportation. Trump's policy change resulted in parents being incarcerated in adults-only facilities, leaving the children without guardians, and therefore incarcerated as well in deplorable conditions. There were anecdotal cases - how widespread is unclear - of children being put into the foster care and adoption systems without parental consent, permanently separating them from their families. Not to mention the significant number of deaths and abuse while in custody. That's the difference.


----------



## CubaMark

Would any of the Trump fanatics in here care to elaborate on what the President was unable to say using basic words in the English language?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTLu8vCH4Os[/ame]


*Related:* _ What is 'Obamagate' and why is Trump so worked up about it?_


----------



## Macfury

Pay Americans whatever it costs to get them to work agriculture. Keep all illegal aliens out. If they come in, throw them back across the border. Very simple policy.



CubaMark said:


> The entire US immigration / border security framework and policies should be scrapped and rebuilt...


----------



## Macfury

Look it up. I thought you followed politics.

If you're too lazy to do that, watch this:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






But I thought you had no use for either Obama or Trump? Why would you care if one accuses the other of anything? 




CubaMark said:


> Would any of the Trump fanatics in here care to elaborate on what the President was unable to say using basic words in the English language?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTLu8vCH4Os
> 
> 
> *Related:* _ What is 'Obamagate' and why is Trump so worked up about it?_


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Look it up. I thought you followed politics.
> 
> If you're too lazy to do that, watch this:


*First:* darn you to heck to make me watch [gag]Tucker smug-bigoted-child-of-privilegeCarlson [/gag] on Fox "News". Despicable human being.

*Second*: Darn you to heck and back for making me watch it twice, trying to suss out an answer to my question. I'll never get that time back in my life, and on my deathbed I'll curse you again. Carlson hit all the right dog-whistle hints, but ultimately, no substance. One would think that clarifying the "crimes" of the former President would be easier to summarize.

*Third: * So, "Obamagate" in your view is essentially the Trump folks being upset that the outgoing administration was wary of sharing sensitive national security information with an incoming team that appeared to be compromised by the Russian government. And since "there was no collusion" (which was never a conclusion reached by anyone other than Trump himself and his followers), then "OBAMAGATE!!!!". Does that about sum it up?

Even Trump's fellow Republicans are wondering what the hell the Cheetoh-in-Chief is going on about:

*Senate Republicans break with Trump over ‘Obamagate’*

President Donald Trump’s aggressive campaign to encourage sweeping investigations of his predecessor Barack Obama met a unanimous response from Senate Republicans: No thanks.

Trump’s Senate allies on Monday stopped short of echoing Trump’s claim that Obama acted illegally when the Justice Department began probing incoming national security adviser Michael Flynn in late 2016. 

(...)

Senate Republicans, however, sidestepped questions of whether the Justice Department should pursue criminal investigations against the former Obama officials, instead deferring to the ongoing investigation of U.S. Attorney John Durham, who was tapped by Attorney General Williams Barr to probe the origins of the FBI’s investigation of the Trump campaign’s contacts with Russia.

“That’s already being looked at, and we’ve got relevant committees up here that are talking a look at some of those issues too. I always think that at the end, eventually the truth comes out, and I’m sure it will here too,” said Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.), who similarly declined to endorse an effort to go after the former president.

Trump and his allies have pinned their hopes on Durham to unveil charges of misconduct against former officials at the highest levels of the Obama administration who spearheaded the Russia probe, though there’s no indication Durham has uncovered any evidence of criminal activity by senior Obama aides.

(...)

After the Justice Department’s abrupt decision last week to drop the criminal case against Flynn, Trump shifted his public focus over the weekend to mount a three-day tear against his predecessor on Twitter, accusing Obama of committing the “biggest political crime in American history.” Trump sought to popularize the hashtag “Obamagate,” which he said makes the Watergate scandal “look small time.” Trump also said Obama “got caught” and later retweeted comments by Flynn’s lawyer, Sidney Powell, who said Obama was part of an effort to frame and entrap her client.

The president also retweeted a photo of himself with the caption: “Hope you had fun investigating me. Now it’s my turn.” And he retweeted a supporter’s call for former top FBI and Justice Department officials to be imprisoned.

When asked Monday what crime Obama allegedly committed, Trump replied: “You know what the crime is. The crime is very obvious to everybody, all you have to do is read the newspapers.”

Barr last week dropped the charges against Flynn, who pleaded guilty in 2017 to lying to the FBI during an interview about several phone calls he had with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. shortly before Trump took office. Flynn later sought to rescind the plea and allege misconduct against him.

(Read on at Politico)

Let's also recall that AG Barr "abruptly" dropped charges against Flynn (who had pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI investigating his contacts with Russia), prompting a significant outcry:

*2,000 former DOJ, FBI officials call on Barr to resign over Michael Flynn case*

The letter calls on Barr to resign and encourages Congress to formally censure Barr over "his repeated assaults on the rule of law in doing the President’s personal bidding rather than acting in the public interest."

Barr directed federal prosecutors to abandon their prosecution of Michael Flynn, who served briefly as national security adviser in the early days of the Trump administration. Flynn admitted that he had lied to the FBI about his conversations during the transition with Russia's ambassador to the U.S.
(NBCNews)​


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> So, "Obamagate" in your view is essentially the Trump folks being upset that the outgoing administration was wary of sharing sensitive national security information with an incoming team that appeared to be compromised by the Russian government. And since "there was no collusion" (which was never a conclusion reached by anyone other than Trump himself and his followers), then "OBAMAGATE!!!!". Does that about sum it up?


No. It's that Obama weaponized the FBI and other government security apparatus in an attempt to destroy his political opponent, on the belief that Hillary Clinton would be elected and the effort covered up. Further, to continue those efforts into the Trump presidency to undermine his administration an remove him from office. As well, that the Obama administration knew that it had no legal basis on which to conduct any investigation.



CubaMark said:


> S
> President Donald Trump’s aggressive campaign to encourage sweeping investigations of his predecessor Barack Obama met a unanimous response from Senate Republicans: No thanks..


I'll bet they are. What's coming next will not be comfortable for them. As you well know—and as you will admit when you're being honest—most government representatives are more concerned with maintaining the pig trough, then who might win an election. An investigation will not help them maintain that gravy train.



CubaMark said:


> Barr last week dropped the charges against Flynn, who pleaded guilty in 2017 to lying to the FBI during an interview about several phone calls he had with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. shortly before Trump took office. Flynn later sought to rescind the plea and allege misconduct against him.Barr directed federal prosecutors to abandon their prosecution of Michael Flynn, who served briefly as national security adviser in the early days of the Trump administration. Flynn admitted that he had lied to the FBI about his conversations during the transition with Russia's ambassador to the U.S.


Because recent infodumps reveal that the FBI agents who fingered Flynn admitted they did so specifically to attempt to create a perjury trap—not to investigate an alleged crime—and that they believed him to be innocent. Flynn admitted to "lying" because investigators said they would destroy his son if he did not. What would you have done if you were Flynn? Allow your son to be ruined?

This certainly justifies Barr's decision.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Why is your use of anecdotal cases acceptable whereas mine on possible Chinese coronavirus treatments not?

Asking for a friend...



CubaMark said:


> There were anecdotal cases - how widespread is unclear....


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Why is your use of anecdotal cases acceptable whereas mine on possible Chinese coronavirus treatments not?


Perhaps because children were separated from their families IN REALITY; children did die in custody IN REALITY; children were put into foster care IN REALITY.

How many of your Orange Messiah's _Coronavirus Guaranteed Treat-'Em With Magical Inner Lights and Bleach Cocktails_ have proven effective against the disease?

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury

You've already been shown that Trump was correct about that UV treatment, and that he never instructed anyone to drink bleach. Don't be the water boy for big corporate news outlets.



CubaMark said:


> How many of your Orange Messiah's _Coronavirus Guaranteed Treat-'Em With Magical Inner Lights and Bleach Cocktails_ have proven effective against the disease?
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

I'm sorry, that is all anecdotal. Until there is a study commissioned, researched, written & peer reviewed, using a double blind system, it's all anecdotal hogwash.

Your rules.



CubaMark said:


> Perhaps because children were separated from their families IN REALITY; children did die in custody IN REALITY; children were put into foster care IN REALITY.


Nice deflection (not...). I never claimed any efficacy regarding the use of UV lights nor fish tank cleaner. As a matter of fact, I specifically pointed out the stupidity of the Prog who tried the fish tank cleaner & killed her husband in the process. However, I did specifically mention hydroxychloroquine and, sonuvagun, as I noted today in the Chinese coronavirus thread (and bolded it to your attention), the FDA has just approved it as a treatment for the disease, sans a clinical trial.

'Magine that.

You can kiss my "Orange Messiah's" arse...



CubaMark said:


> How many of your Orange Messiah's _Coronavirus Guaranteed Treat-'Em With Magical Inner Lights and Bleach Cocktails_ have proven effective against the disease?


----------



## FeXL

:clap::clap::clap:

Republicans Win Special Election In Wisconsin and Are Poised to Win in California



> They held a red seat in Wisconsin, and flipped a blue seat in California.
> 
> Or at least that it is how it looks now. They're still counting, and perhaps creating, votes.
> 
> This was FiveThirtyEight two days ago:


----------



## CubaMark

*Hell has frozen over. *

*McConnell Said He Was ‘Wrong’ To Claim Obama Didn’t Leave A Pandemic Plan*

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said on Thursday that he had erroneously claimed that former President Barack Obama had not left the “game plan” to deal with the pandemic when he left the White House to President Donald Trump.

“I was wrong,” McConnell told Fox News Bret Baier. “They left a plan, so I clearly made a mistake in that regard. Whether the plan was adhered to or who is critical, and all the others, I have no observation in this regard because I do not know enough detail. “

The senator sparked debate earlier this week in an online interview with Lara Trump, the president’s daughter, and campaign adviser when the Obama administration handed it over to Trump’s team. He also seized that the former president had criticized Trump in a private conversation for treating the coronavirus pandemic, which had infected more than 1.4 million people in the U.S., saying Obama was “a little classless” and “should have kept his mouth shut.”

“They claim that pandemics only occur once a hundred years, but what if that’s no longer true?” McConnell said during the interview. “We want to be early, ready for the next one, because clearly the Obama administration hasn’t left this administration some sort of game plan for something like that.”

(FOXNews / Kedlist)​


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, I remember the last time that you mentioned a Democrat who had apologized to a Republican... Oh wait, hell hasn't frozen over on a post like that yet.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yeah, I remember the last time that you mentioned a Democrat who had apologized to a Republican... Oh wait, hell hasn't frozen over on a post like that yet.



That’s the best response you can come up with? What a whiner.


----------



## Macfury

Let's have a contest. Post a response that's much better than mine.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s the best response you can come up with? What a whiner.


----------



## CubaMark

It still boggles the mind that folks who complained about Obama's use of a teleprompter have no issue with the five-year-old vocabulary of the Cheetoh-in-Chief....










(Doonesbury)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> It still boggles the mind that folks who complained about Obama's use of a teleprompter have no issue with the five-year-old vocabulary of the Cheetoh-in-Chief....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Doonesbury)​



And yet some people seem to like that about the dotard ****gibbon.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

What's really mind-boggling is that you criticize Trump's vocabulary but are entirely quiet on the dementia-based gaffes from the pride of the Progs, the Democratic presidential candidate _himself_, old white guy Joey Wet-fingers.



CubaMark said:


> It still boggles the mind that folks who complained about Obama's use of a teleprompter have no issue with the five-year-old vocabulary of the Cheetoh-in-Chief....


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I'm having some difficulty with a math problem. Hoping you can help me out.

Part 1) If a Prog governor cuts teacher's wages by 10% for one year, how many sea turtles can fit on the head of a San Francisco junkie's needle? Don't forget to factor in the taxpayer-funded free drugs, alcohol & cigarettes they're receiving.

Part 2) Based on your answer to Part 1, how many decades will said teachers complain about their 40% wage cut?

Part 3) What about the estrus cycle of baboons?

TIA.

Newsom Proposes Cuts For State Worker Pay, Schools, Health Care In Grim COVID-19 Budget Revision



> California Gov. Gavin Newsom painted a grim financial picture for the state Thursday as he presented a revised budget that reflected unprecedented unemployment, a massive decline in revenue and a proposed cut in pay for state workers.





Freddie_Biff said:


> And yet some people seem to like that about the dotard ****gibbon.


----------



## Macfury

I imagine it boggles the minds of the likes of you and Freddie! We were reacting to claims that Obama was a brilliant communicator. A "brilliance" that subsided immediately once the TelePrompTer shut down.



CubaMark said:


> It still boggles the mind that folks who complained about Obama's use of a teleprompter...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> What's really mind-boggling is that you criticize Trump's vocabulary but are entirely quiet on the dementia-based gaffes from the pride of the Progs, the Democratic presidential candidate _himself_, old white guy Joey Wet-fingers.


Well, ya see, FeXL, he hates that guy too. Absolutely. Burning with equal rage. But he juust can't find the gumption to speak out about it...


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> What's really mind-boggling is that you criticize Trump's vocabulary but are entirely quiet on the dementia-based gaffes from the pride of the Progs, the Democratic presidential candidate _himself_, old white guy Joey Wet-fingers.


(a) Your 'Whataboutism' is showing.

(b) Biden ain't President. If the President of the country acts like a childish, uneducated, highly emotional, pathological lying dirtbag whose so far over his head he might as well be in the Marianas Trench, then he's fair game, as are those who against all reason follow him as though he were some kind of messiah.

(c) Biden is the wrong choice for the Democratic nominee, for reasons that go beyond his issues with the opposite sex. He does appear to have some cognitive issues (far fewer than your Golden Idol, but whatever). Biden's only hope in November is to pick an absolutely stellar VP nominee, someone folks could look at and see as the right choice to take up the Oval Office when Joe inevitably has to step down.

(d) Interesting how you continue to distract from the point at hand, never attempting to defend (the indefensible) Trump's glaring character flaws and mental instability. Par for the course....


----------



## Macfury

You were silent while Obama was president: "Buddihatedhimtooooooo...."



CubaMark said:


> (a) Your 'Whataboutism' is showing.
> 
> (b) Biden ain't President. If the President of the country acts like a childish, uneducated, highly emotional, pathological lying dirtbag whose so far over his head he might as well be in the Marianas Trench, then he's fair game, as are those who against all reason follow him as though he were some kind of messiah.
> 
> (c) Biden is the wrong choice for the Democratic nominee, for reasons that go beyond his issues with the opposite sex. He does appear to have some cognitive issues (far fewer than your Golden Idol, but whatever). Biden's only hope in November is to pick an absolutely stellar VP nominee, someone folks could look at and see as the right choice to take up the Oval Office when Joe inevitably has to step down.
> 
> (d) Interesting how you continue to distract from the point at hand, never attempting to defend (the indefensible) Trump's glaring character flaws and mental instability. Par for the course....


----------



## Macfury

I will add that I'm constantly surprised to see CM dragging a new Doonesbury cartoon out of the cellar. I thought that sclerotic feature died years ago.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

1) I'm merely throwing into sharp relief your hypocrisy, your double standards. You'll criticize the right of certain things yet anyone from the left displaying the same or worse gets a free pass.

2) No $h!t, Sherlock. Precisely why I specifically noted "presidential candidate" in the OP.

3) On the contrary, Joey Wet-fingers is the perfect candidate. He is everything the Progs hate about politicians from the right, Trump included: Old. White. Male. Sex scandal. Again, the hypocrisy.

4) Interesting how you continue to ignore the character flaws, mental instability, racism, sexism, misogyny, lies (I'll keep the list short today) of Benito Trudolini.



CubaMark said:


> (a) Your 'Whataboutism' is showing.
> 
> (b) Biden ain't President. If the President of the country acts like a childish, uneducated, highly emotional, pathological lying dirtbag whose so far over his head he might as well be in the Marianas Trench, then he's fair game, as are those who against all reason follow him as though he were some kind of messiah.
> 
> (c) Biden is the wrong choice for the Democratic nominee, for reasons that go beyond his issues with the opposite sex. He does appear to have some cognitive issues (far fewer than your Golden Idol, but whatever). Biden's only hope in November is to pick an absolutely stellar VP nominee, someone folks could look at and see as the right choice to take up the Oval Office when Joe inevitably has to step down.
> 
> (d) Interesting how you continue to distract from the point at hand, never attempting to defend (the indefensible) Trump's glaring character flaws and mental instability. Par for the course....


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> 4) Interesting how you continue to ignore the character flaws, mental instability, racism, sexism, misogyny, lies (I'll keep the list short today) of Benito Trudolini.


"Buddihatedhimtooooooooooooooo...."


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> 1) I'm merely throwing into sharp relief your hypocrisy, your double standards. You'll criticize the right of certain things yet anyone from the left displaying the same or worse gets a free pass.


Are you trying to claim that Biden is on the "left" of the political spectrum? 

Your political compass is seriously skewed....



FeXL said:


> On the contrary, Joey Wet-fingers is the perfect candidate. He is everything the Progs hate about politicians from the right, Trump included: Old. White. Male. Sex scandal. Again, the hypocrisy.


Are you finally admitting that Trump is not the end-all-be-all? I may never recover. :lmao:



FeXL said:


> Interesting how you continue to ignore the character flaws, mental instability, racism, sexism, misogyny, lies (I'll keep the list short today) of Benito Trudolini.


Throw the bum out! Seriously - I doubt that if I spent my life 24/7 in here saying Trudeau is an idiot, you'd still say I thought he walked on water. He doesn't. He was just better than the pseudo-trumpian Scheer and the warmed-over Refooooooooooooorm wackos. Would you rather eat excrement or maggots? Well, neither. But at least I can say I didn't eat excrement.

Neither got my vote.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

He sure as $h!t ain't on the right. He's no centrist, either. Just because he's not left of Marx doesn't mean he's not left.



CubaMark said:


> Are you trying to claim that Biden is on the "left" of the political spectrum?


FFS. Read. Pay Attention. I've never once claimed that Trump is the be all or end all of anything. As a matter of fact, I've noted precisely that on these very boards any number of times.

That said, I'd take Trump head, shoulders, ass & toe nail fungus over Blackie, Scheep or any of the other Canuck potential candidates right now any day of the week & twice on Sunday.



CubaMark said:


> Are you finally admitting that Trump is not the end-all-be-all? I may never recover.


C'mon now! Let's be realistic. After this Chinese coronavirus spending spree, he's got to be getting your antennae all a-twitch. A trillion $$$ in the hole? That screams Prog!

Thing is, you don't actually think he's an idiot. I do. That's the difference.



CubaMark said:


> Throw the bum out! Seriously - I doubt that if I spent my life 24/7 in here saying Trudeau is an idiot, you'd still say I thought he walked on water.


----------



## SINC

An interesting viewpoint:

The View from Israel.

The Fall of Obama’s House of Cards

Obama’s top officials. Lying through their teeth.

The View from Israel.: The Fall of Obama’s House of Cards


----------



## FeXL

Interesting.

$1.6T in century-old Chinese bonds offer Trump unique leverage against Beijing



> As the Trump administration seeks ways to penalize China for its handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, it need look no further than Tennessee.
> 
> The Lewisburg, Tennessee-based American Bondholder Foundation holds $1.6 trillion of century-old Chinese debt, including interest, dating to before the founding of the communist People’s Republic of China, that it wants the administration's help in redeeming. There is an estimated $6 trillion or more of the debt outstanding worldwide.
> 
> The bonds were issued by the Republic of China -- which ousted the imperial government in a coup -- as far back as 1912 and backed by gold; they were defaulted on in 1938. The ROC government fled to Taiwan, where it remains the official ruling body, after Mao Zedong’s communist party took over following the 1949 end of the revolution.
> 
> *Beijing maintains Taiwan is part of China, and under international law, successor governments are responsible for the debts of their predecessors.*


Bold mine.


----------



## CubaMark

(Danzinger)


----------



## Macfury

Is that what political cartooning has come to? I followed the link and saw only a long list of anti-Republican/Trump cartoons. Nothing to see elsewhere, folks--move along, move along!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Are you implying that the Chinese coronavirus (COVID-19) _didn't_ come from China?

Fine.

List all your evidence. Be specific...



CubaMark said:


>


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Are you implying that the Chinese coronavirus (COVID-19) _didn't_ come from China.


He's the king of cartoons. Don't ask him to think about it.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> He's the king of cartoons.


King of _something_, that's for sure.


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

There's No Longer Any Question: Biden Carried Out A Cover-Up In Ukraine



> Ukrainian lawmaker Andrei Derkach released audio recordings that he claims to have received from journalists which convincingly sound as though they’re truly of former President Poroshenko’s numerous conversations with former Vice President and current Democrat front-runner Biden.
> 
> The content of their chats concerns the *latter’s efforts to pressure the then-Ukrainian leader to remove General Prosecutor Shokin, which Trump and many of his surrogates have claimed was undertaken in an attempt to cover up his son Hunter’s corruption at the Burisma gas company* where he was employed and which was the subject of an investigation by Shokin.
> 
> The recordings are remarkably frank, with Poroshenko proudly pledging fealty to Biden and regularly updating him on the progress that he’s made in keeping what he refers to as his “promises” to the former Vice President.


Links' bold.


----------



## CubaMark

So you have a Democrat nominee who appears to be dirty (what a surprise) and should not gain the Presidency in November.

You have a Republican (hah!) incumbent who is globally reviled and ridiculed, justifiably, as a kook immensely incapable of doing the job.

There's only one option - *Bring Back Bernie!*


----------



## Macfury

That is actually a huge plus to me. Who wants the praise of countries circling the drain already?



CubaMark said:


> You have a Republican (hah!) incumbent who is globally reviled and ridiculed...


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> So you have a Democrat nominee who appears to be dirty (what a surprise) and should not gain the Presidency in November.
> 
> You have a Republican (hah!) incumbent who is globally reviled and ridiculed, justifiably, as a kook immensely incapable of doing the job.
> 
> There's only one option - *Bring Back Bernie!*


I cannot even remember the last time either major party ran a candidate I felt I could vote for. Obama lost all credibility when he rushed back to the Senate to vote for the $785 Billion$ handout to the banksters. He later proved incredibly adept saying it right and doing it wrong. Something he and Trump seem to have in common.

I did vote for Reagan the first time, but I was young and stupid, and he quickly showed me the error of my vote.

One of the total joys of relinquishing my US citizenship was giving up my right to vote in presidential elections.


----------



## CubaMark

Minnesota State Police arrest a black/latino reporter and his camera crew, despite being where they were told to be, doing their job, and complying with police direction. Meanwhile, his white colleague from the same network, no problems at all with the cops on the scene.

_Interesting._

*Minnesota police arrest CNN team on live television*

CNN's Omar Jimenez was taken into police custody during a live broadcast at the site of the protests in Minneapolis, after clearly identifying himself to officers. Jimenez's crew were also placed in handcuffs.

Video​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Minnesota State Police arrest a black/latino reporter and his camera crew, despite being where they were told to be, doing their job, and complying with police direction. Meanwhile, his white colleague from the same network, no problems at all with the cops on the scene.
> 
> _Interesting._*Minnesota police arrest CNN team on live television*CNN's Omar Jimenez was taken into police custody during a live broadcast at the site of the protests in Minneapolis, after clearly identifying himself to officers. Jimenez's crew were also placed in handcuffs.
> 
> Video​


Don't those dumbass cops know that they are not following correct Social Oppression protocols? Don't matter that he's wearing a mask, they're all gonna die!


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Don't those dumbass cops know that they are not following correct Social Oppression protocols? Don't matter that he's wearing a mask, they're all gonna die!


Never write off to racism what incompetence can explain.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

'Cause the _only_ issue with Joey Wetfingers is the sexual assault accusations...



CubaMark said:


> So you have a Democrat nominee who appears to be dirty (what a surprise) and should not gain the Presidency in November.


The only place Trump is reviled and ridiculed is within Prog circles. This includes, but is not limited to, genuine Progs, the MSM, NeverTrumpers and the like. BIRM...



CubaMark said:


> You have a Republican (hah!) incumbent who is globally reviled and ridiculed, justifiably, as a kook immensely incapable of doing the job.


SSDD. BTW, you forgot Bill's Wife.



CubaMark said:


> There's only one option - *Bring Back Bernie!*


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Why am I not surprised that you have completely failed to address the _riots_ by blacks & latinos across the country?



CubaMark said:


> Minnesota State Police arrest a black/latino reporter and his camera crew, despite being where they were told to be, doing their job, and complying with police direction.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you have completely failed to address the _riots_ by blacks & latinos across the country?


The bigger story is CNN!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you have completely failed to address the _riots_ by blacks & latinos across the country?


Typical right-winger.

Things "just happen" because certain people are "bad".

Nothing that ever happened in the past has any bearing on current events.

People just need to behave themselves, be responsible, stay in their place, learn to say "Yes suh!" whenever they are told to do something by a nice caucasian gentleman officer, drink from the right water fountain, and dammit, leave our wimmen alone!

*/sarcasm* _(for those who for some reason cannot parse such things innately)_


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Typical right-winger.
> 
> Things "just happen" because certain people are "bad".
> 
> Nothing that ever happened in the past has any bearing on current events.
> 
> People just need to behave themselves, be responsible, stay in their place, learn to say "Yes suh!" whenever they are told to do something by a nice caucasian gentleman officer, drink from the right water fountain, and dammit, leave our wimmen alone!
> 
> */sarcasm* _(for those who for some reason cannot parse such things innately)_


Are you suggesting that there are only two options here--stealing televisions and air fryers from Target or succumbing?


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> The bigger story is CNN!


Victim!!!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Typical Prog. Everybody is a victim & therefore violence, theft, arson, etc., is completely and entirely justified.



CubaMark said:


> Typical right-winger.


Once again, the Victim!!! mentality.

Tell me something, CM. How many generations back does this apply? How much time has to pass before I am no longer blamed for my ancestors owning slaves, despite the fact that neither side of my ancestry owned them?

How much water has to pass under the bridge before I am no longer accused of stealing land from the First Immigrants, despite the fact that both sides of my family legally bought the land they sweated blood over, eked a living from & raised families on?

Tell me, CM: At what point am I no longer guilty of the sins of my forefathers?



CubaMark said:


> Nothing that ever happened in the past has any bearing on current events.


Y'all did when the coronavirus shutdown was ordered...



CubaMark said:


> People just need to behave themselves, be responsible, stay in their place, learn to say "Yes suh!" whenever they are told to do something by a nice caucasian gentleman officer...


Edit:

I have a couple further questions for you: If I was a business owner in one of these cities where the riots are taking place, and a bunch of rioters showed up trying to break into my place of business, do I have the right to defend my business? With any and all force available to me at the time?

Or would you prefer that I unlock the door, step aside & turn on my "Open for Violence, Theft and/or Arson" sign?

How about my home?

My church?

My octogenarian parents' home?


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Tell me something, CM. How many generations back does this apply? How much time has to pass before I am no longer blamed for my ancestors owning slaves, despite the fact that neither side of my ancestry owned them?
> 
> How much water has to pass under the bridge before I am no longer accused of stealing land from the First Immigrants, despite the fact that both sides of my family legally bought the land they sweated blood over, eked a living from & raised families on?
> 
> Tell me, CM: At what point am I no longer guilty of the sins of my forefathers?


This is a perfect example of how WASP society just doesn't "get it". 

No-one is blaming you for having ancestors who owned slaves. Nobody is accusing you of stealing land from (what you call) "the First Immigrants". You are not being saddled with the sins of your forefathers.

Got that? Ok. Now here's the part you don't seem to be able to grasp:

What is undeniable is that North American society has been structured by historical events, such as slavery, colonialism, the import of capitalism, the repression/genocide of indigenous peoples. These societal and institutional structures and the system in which they exist have an inherent bias toward white society and are inherently obstructionist to non-white society. 

The (hilarious were it not so incredibly sad) myth that is perpetuated by bigots and uninformed (or deceptive) people, that they are being "blamed" for their forebearers' actions deflects from a real discussion of that privilege held by white people. 

It's even more difficult when you're trying to explain white privilege to poor white people, who may not have two nickels to rub together... but who nonetheless can go jogging without fear that a couple of ******** will gun them down on a city street because they "look" guilty of something. Or to basement-dwelling weekend warrior types who lock-and-load their AR-15s as they storm a state legislature and receive NO pushback from state security forces, while folks protesting the extra-judicial murder of a black man at the hands of those forces are met with violence and repression.

I know that this is wasted effort, that you'll twist this as usual to suit your inner prejudices (and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt - the only other explanation is that you're aware of your bigotry and hide it with this "woe-is-me" shtick). There's lots of better explanations than the one I've offered here, but you can't beat sense into some people. You can only wait for the dinosaurs to go extinct and hope the next generation hasn't been unsurmountably poisoned by the hand-me-down views that contaminate our society.


----------



## Macfury

And this justifies stealing TVs from Target? Some mighty deep thinking there, CM.



CubaMark said:


> This is a perfect example of how WASP society just doesn't "get it".
> 
> No-one is blaming you for having ancestors who owned slaves. Nobody is accusing you of stealing land from (what you call) "the First Immigrants". You are not being saddled with the sins of your forefathers.
> 
> Got that? Ok. Now here's the part you don't seem to be able to grasp:
> 
> What is undeniable is that North American society has been structured by historical events, such as slavery, colonialism, the import of capitalism, the repression/genocide of indigenous peoples. These societal and institutional structures and the system in which they exist have an inherent bias toward white society and are inherently obstructionist to non-white society.
> 
> The (hilarious were it not so incredibly sad) myth that is perpetuated by bigots and uninformed (or deceptive) people, that they are being "blamed" for their forebearers' actions deflects from a real discussion of that privilege held by white people.
> 
> It's even more difficult when you're trying to explain white privilege to poor white people, who may not have two nickels to rub together... but who nonetheless can go jogging without fear that a couple of ******** will gun them down on a city street because they "look" guilty of something. Or to basement-dwelling weekend warrior types who lock-and-load their AR-15s as they storm a state legislature and receive NO pushback from state security forces, while folks protesting the extra-judicial murder of a black man at the hands of those forces are met with violence and repression.
> 
> I know that this is wasted effort, that you'll twist this as usual to suit your inner prejudices (and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt - the only other explanation is that you're aware of your bigotry and hide it with this "woe-is-me" shtick). There's lots of better explanations than the one I've offered here, but you can't beat sense into some people. You can only wait for the dinosaurs to go extinct and hope the next generation hasn't been unsurmountably poisoned by the hand-me-down views that contaminate our society.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And this justifies stealing TVs from Target? Some mighty deep thinking there, CM.


The connection is clear...


----------



## CubaMark

Lots of video showing up of WHITE people breaking windows, vandalizing businesses, etc... and of members of those crowds, dressed in black and masked, cooperating with the police.

We are no stranger to the "agent provocateur" here in Canada - remember the G8, Quebec City, etc. It's not fantasy - it's reality. A reminder: 


The Toronto G20 Riot Fraud: Undercover Police engaged in Purposeful Provocation
Sid Ryan Defends G8 & G20 Agents Provocateurs Comment
Quebec police admit they went undercover at Montebello protest
"...a video surfaced on YouTube that appeared to show three plainclothes police officers at the protest with bandanas across their faces. One of the men was carrying a rock.

In the video, protest organizers in suits order the men to put the rock down, call them police instigators and try unsuccessfully to unmask them.

Police-issued boots identified fake protesters

Protest organizers on Wednesday played the video for the media at a news conference in Ottawa. One of the organizers, union leader Dave Coles, explained that one reason protesters knew the men's true identities was because they were wearing the same boots as other police officers.

Coles said on Wednesday that the only thing he didn't know was whether the men were Quebec police, RCMP or hired security officers.

"[Our union]believes that the security force at Montebello were ordered to infiltrate our peaceful assembly and provoke incidents," said Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union.

Police said the three were told to monitor protesters who were not peacefully demonstrating to prevent any violent incidents, but they were called out as undercover agents when they refused to throw objects."​
* * *

People have apparently identified one of the black-clad vandals as St. Paul police officer Jacob Pederson:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPibg61riRk[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

It sounds like you're saying you're OK with the riots, but then blame the riots on rioters who are blindly following the leads of white police officers. Is that it? 

"Nothing to see here folks.... it's just officer Pederson actin' up again."

At the same time, you've only just discovered the existence of such people when the flames of "progressive" protests have been demonstrably fanned by paid and bused-in provocateurs for a decade?



CubaMark said:


> Lots of video showing up of WHITE people breaking windows, vandalizing businesses, etc... and of members of those crowds, dressed in black and masked, cooperating with the police.
> 
> We are no stranger to the "agent provocateur" here in Canada - remember the G8, Quebec City, etc. It's not fantasy - it's reality. A reminder:
> 
> 
> The Toronto G20 Riot Fraud: Undercover Police engaged in Purposeful Provocation
> Sid Ryan Defends G8 & G20 Agents Provocateurs Comment
> Quebec police admit they went undercover at Montebello protest
> "...a video surfaced on YouTube that appeared to show three plainclothes police officers at the protest with bandanas across their faces. One of the men was carrying a rock.
> 
> In the video, protest organizers in suits order the men to put the rock down, call them police instigators and try unsuccessfully to unmask them.
> 
> Police-issued boots identified fake protesters
> 
> Protest organizers on Wednesday played the video for the media at a news conference in Ottawa. One of the organizers, union leader Dave Coles, explained that one reason protesters knew the men's true identities was because they were wearing the same boots as other police officers.
> 
> Coles said on Wednesday that the only thing he didn't know was whether the men were Quebec police, RCMP or hired security officers.
> 
> "[Our union]believes that the security force at Montebello were ordered to infiltrate our peaceful assembly and provoke incidents," said Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union.
> 
> Police said the three were told to monitor protesters who were not peacefully demonstrating to prevent any violent incidents, but they were called out as undercover agents when they refused to throw objects."​
> * * *
> 
> People have apparently identified one of the black-clad vandals as St. Paul police officer Jacob Pederson:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPibg61riRk


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

1. So, what's the thrust here? Blacks rioting, good; whites rioting, bad?
2. If yer looking for some sort of different reaction, nope. All the bastards should be thrown in the joint.
3. This is obviously all part of that <snort> _White Privilege_ you be talkin' 'bout...




CubaMark said:


> [Lots of video showing up of WHITE people breaking windows, vandalizing businesses, etc...


----------



## eMacMan

Rooskies? Probably not! 

George Soros? Much more likely. Probably ust trying to create an excuse to continue the ongoing abuse of civil rights on the soused side of 49.

https://news.yahoo.com/susan-rice-blames-foreign-actors-120019152.html



> Former Obama adviser Susan Rice has blamed the violent protests that rocked major American cities over the weekend on “foreign actors,” and even suggested that Russia could be involved in stirring them up.
> ....


----------



## CubaMark

*United States deploys troops to politically unstable nation of the United States*










WASHINGTON, DC- The United States government announced today that it will send active duty troops to the chaos plagued country of the United States to help quell the growing civic unrest.

“America is an important part of America’s strategic interests in the region and we can’t allow the country to fall into chaos,” said secretary of state Mike Pompeo. “As such we will be sending in military advisors to assist the government in restoring order, especially around the oilfields.”

Pompeo also reaffirmed that the troops would not be deployed in the United States for longer than necessary to restore order. “While it is this administration’s objective to end the insurrection, we cannot impose our policies onto a sovereign state. At the end of the day, the United States will have to learn to handle their own internal conflicts.”

Some critics warn the deployment could pull the US into a quagmire similar to Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. “US intelligence is not good enough,” Claimed Secretary of Defense Mark Esper. “There are religious, racial, and cultural differences that they don’t really grasp, they have very few troops or intelligence officers who can read or write well in the main language, called English, used throughout the region, never mind the various local dialects.”

(The Beaverton)​


----------



## eMacMan

Maybe if the cops stopped putting out pallets of bricks for the use of protestors it might help defuse things.


I mean does anyone really believe that every major city in the USA normally sets out pallets of bricks in areas where they know there are going to be protests? So how do they keep suddenly appearing?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I mean does anyone really believe that every major city in the USA normally sets out pallets of bricks in areas where they know there are going to be protests? So how do they keep suddenly appearing?


America's "progressive" wing may be hard at work.


----------



## CubaMark

*James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution
*
James Mattis, the esteemed Marine general who resigned as secretary of defense in December 2018 to protest Donald Trump’s Syria policy, has, ever since, kept studiously silent about Trump’s performance as president. But he has now broken his silence, writing an extraordinary broadside in which he denounces the president for dividing the nation, and accuses him of ordering the U.S. military to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens.

“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”

* * *

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership.....

* * *

“When I joined the military, some 50 years ago,” he writes, “I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op [Read More] for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”

(The Atlantic)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Why are you suddenly so concerned about following the Constitution?



CubaMark said:


> “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”​


Apparently Mattis was asleep during Jug Ears' reign...



CubaMark said:


> “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,”​


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Why are you suddenly so concerned about following the Constitution?


Even more salient... why is CM now hanging onto every word from Mattis who he was laughing at two years ago?



CubaMark said:


> *U.S. military shoots down PowerPoint*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Toronto Star)


And three years ago, CM wrongly predicted that wamongerin' Mattis was getting America ready for war with North Korea:



CubaMark said:


> *American Media Are Getting People at Home Ready for War With North Korea*
> 
> Remember what it felt like a couple of months ago when you, as an American, didn’t give much thought to North Korea? I’d like you to try and remember that feeling over the next couple of weeks, because the US government wants that to change. The past month has shown a tremendous shift in news coverage about North Korea. And that’s no accident.
> 
> President Donald Trump continues to beat the drums of war, and the media are going along with him. Trump doesn’t have any particular incentive to bomb North Korea or advocate for regime change in the country. It’s not even clear that Trump knows the leader of North Korea’s name. But Trump is above all a man who likes to be liked. And so far, the actions that have won him the most praise have been when he dropped a bunch of bombs on Syria.
> 
> Some talking heads on American TV will insist that we don’t want war. But with a subtle shift in narrative, there comes a sense that “we,” as the world’s police, have no other choice. Once the media talking heads get far enough down that road, constructive criticism of potential war (both at the dinner table and the water cooler) become loaded with questions of “well, if you love North Korea so much, why don’t you move there?”
> 
> (Gizmodo)​
> *AND*
> 
> *Entire U.S. Senate to go to White House for North Korea briefing | Reuters*
> 
> Top Trump administration officials will hold a rare briefing on Wednesday at the White House for the entire U.S. Senate on the situation in North Korea.
> 
> All 100 senators have been asked to the White House for the briefing by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said White House spokesman Sean Spicer on Monday.
> 
> While administration officials routinely travel to Capitol Hill to address members of Congress on foreign policy matters, it is unusual for the entire Senate to go to the White House, and for all four of those officials to be involved.
> 
> Wednesday’s briefing was originally scheduled for a secure room at the Capitol, but President Donald Trump suggested a shift to the White House, congressional aides said.
> (Reuters via Cryptogon)​


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Even more salient... why is CM now hanging onto every word from Mattis who he was laughing at two years ago?
> 
> And three years ago, CM wrongly predicted that wamongerin' Mattis was getting America ready for war with North Korea:


<snort> D'oh! Talk about backing the wrong horse... :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

More of that White Privilege The Bigot goes on about...

Important Question: Should White Americans Be Forced to Literally Bend the Knee to Black Americans?



> Four years ago, on Evergreen Community State College campus, #Woke minority progressives began imposing race-based rules on whites. Whites could not attend campus on certain days. Whites could not speak when a minority was minoritysplaining to them about Oppression.
> 
> Whites even had to fetch black students things, like a power charger or a bottle of water, when a black student needed us.
> 
> No one really said anything. No one objected.
> 
> No one said, "This is just Jim Crow enforced racial subservience with the serial number filed off and the colors reversed. This is unamerican and cannot be tolerated."
> 
> *Nah. Everyone was quiet.*


Bold mine.

More:



> The Tucker Carlson monologue below is a must-watch.
> 
> *Especially the part with the black man accosting a white woman on the street and demanding she kneel before him and apologize for her white privilege.
> 
> And... she does!
> *
> This is exactly what we have allowed -- by refusing, like cowards, to condemn it and stay firmly that this shall not be abided -- to become an increasingly _mainstream_ view of how American whites must bow and scrape to any minority who demands to be treated as a Racial Aristocrat.


Bold mine.

Further:



> A female friend of mine said something like this: "It's not just maddening that a black man is now bullying a white women on the street and demanding she prostrate themselves like a servant -- it's that you're *not even permitted to say this is wrong, and why it is wrong*. You're supposed to remain silent and through your silence confirm that this is okay."
> 
> I sure the hell don't want to demand blacks _kneel before me like slaves and beg my forgiveness for attacking white people_, like that old man in Governor Whitmer's nursing home.
> 
> *That is racist. That is absurdly racist. That is actually racially supremacist to demand.*
> 
> If I did that, I imagine I'd be ****ing _punched_. I mean, cancelled on twitter _of course_, but I imagine I'd get some Real Life Dunking too.
> 
> And I could not claim I did not deserve it.
> 
> So please tell me:
> 
> *Why are whites expected to kneel for blacks to apologize for **** that some random white guy did?*
> 
> Where did this particular black guy get the idea that he could accost a stranger of another race and demand that she demonstrate racial subservience to him?
> 
> *In that exchange, between a larger, stronger, more physically intimidating black man, and a smaller, weaker, less imposing white woman, who had the "Racial Power"?*


Last 3 bolds mine.


----------



## FeXL

Once I see Jug Ears & Bill's Wife on the list, I'll be smiling. To see them in their matching orange jumpsuits would be icing on the cake.

Justice Is Coming: 'As Many as 16-17' Obamagate Criminal Referrals Headed to DOJ



> As America reopens from coronavirus lockdowns and protests and riots engulf American cities, Attorney General William Barr is hard at work on Obamagate. According to award-winning journalist Adam Housley, “as many as 16-17” criminal referrals will be headed to the Department of Justice (DOJ) regarding the Obama administration’s spying on the Trump campaign in 2016.
> 
> “Criminal referrals have already been sent to the Justice Department and the overall number may reach as many as 16-17 by the end of next week. Investigators are working on additional ones as we speak and some are targeting the Mueller probe and how [retired Gen. Michael Flynn was] investigated,” Housley tweeted.


----------



## eMacMan

An interesting ruling, given that the US has historically shown somewhere between little and zero respect for the treaties it has signed.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-supreme-court-rules-half-020553711.html



> The US Supreme Court has ruled about half of Oklahoma belongs to Native Americans, in a landmark case that also quashed a child rape conviction.
> 
> The justices decided 5-4 that an eastern chunk of the state, including its second-biggest city, Tulsa, should be recognised as part of a reservation.
> 
> Jimcy McGirt, who was convicted in 1997 of raping a girl, brought the case.
> 
> He cited the historical claim of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation to the land where the assault occurred.
> ....


Not mentioned in the article is how it might impact the attempts of the Ogalala Sioux to reclaim the Black Hills. To say that would make for interesting times is an understatement, as I am pretty sure the Ogalala would just love to dynamite Mt. Rushmore, which is located right in the heart of the Black Hills.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump is no genius. 



> The point isn’t that the cognitive test is easy. The point is that Trump keeps bragging about it.
> 
> Philip Bump
> 
> Were I to come up to you and ask you to recite the alphabet, you’d likely do so without issue. It wouldn’t even seem like a test, just that I were for some reason questioning your basic literacy. If I explained that it was a test aimed at determining if you had the aforementioned invented disease, you’d probably shrug and accept it.
> 
> The preceding paragraphs are a test of its own, really; a measure of your ability to translate odd hypotheticals into topical subjects in American politics. Here, of course, you have the added hint of the headline and the photo, meaning that you probably passed.
> 
> The H-itis analogy is meant to evoke the role of the cognitive test President Trump took in early 2018. It’s been mocked online for being easy — which, for most people it is. But as with reciting the alphabet, it’s not meant to be a gauge of intellectual performance or cleverness. Instead, it’s meant to use simple mental tests as a way of evaluating impairments.
> 
> Navy Rear Adm. Ronny L. Jackson, the lead White House doctor, said on Jan. 16 that President Trump’s “overall health is excellent.” (Bastien Inzaurralde/The Washington Post)
> 
> For example, the test asks you to draw an analog clock showing 11:10 not to see if you’re smart enough to draw a clock but, instead, to evaluate whether there’s any impairment that would prevent you from doing so. To you and me (presumably), such a task is simple — because our brains can quickly work out how to complete the task. Draw a circle. Write the numbers in the circle. Add the hour and minute hands and done.
> 
> Each of those steps, though, measures some cognitive ability. The circle itself. The positioning of the numbers, which requires more planning ahead than you might consider. The placement of the hands from center to number. These are simple, discrete tasks that a normal brain can easily complete — as readily as one can recite the alphabet. If you have impaired cognitive functioning, though, it’s not easy at all.
> 
> All of this is why the test itself shouldn’t be scoffed at for being easy. All of this is also why one shouldn’t brag about doing well on the test.
> 
> If I were testing you for H-itis and you recited the alphabet, a natural reaction would be, “Oh, good, I don’t have H-itis.” A natural reaction would not be, “I recited the alphabet flawlessly because I rule.”
> 
> Which brings us to Trump’s recent invocation of the cognitive test he took. The president and his allies have invested a lot of energy in questioning former vice president Joe Biden’s mental acuity, given the likelihood that Trump and Biden will face off in November.
> 
> At a news conference late last month, a Fox News reporter asked the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee if he had been tested for cognitive decline.
> 
> “I’ve been tested. I’m constantly tested,” Biden replied, apparently meaning in the abstract and not with specific tests like the one Trump took. “Look, all you’ve got to do is watch me — and I can hardly wait to compare my cognitive capability to the cognitive capability of the man I’m running against.”
> 
> When Trump called into Sean Hannity’s Fox News show last night, Hannity raised the interaction, showing a series of incidents in which Biden stumbled over words.
> 
> Trump, oddly, insisted that Biden must have meant tests for the coronavirus, which Biden clearly didn’t. But then Trump raised his own cognitive test.
> 
> “I actually took one when I — very recently, when I when I was, you know, the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there because I — I aced the test,” Trump claimed. “And he should take the same exact test. The very standard test; I took it at Walter Reed Medical Center in front of doctors."
> 
> Trump then turned it up a bit.
> 
> “And they were very surprised,” Trump said of the doctors. “They said that’s an unbelievable thing. Rarely does anybody do what you just did.”
> 
> No. That did not happen. Or, at least, it didn’t happen without a qualifier like, “rarely does anybody your age not demonstrate any of the impairments this test is meant to measure,” which is possible. But the doctors did not call this “an unbelievable thing.” It would be like my fawning over your alphabet recitation: “Wow, you even nailed the L-M-N-O-P.”
> 
> Getting a perfect score is literally the baseline for being normal, not for being exceptional.
> 
> Trump can’t help it. If he does anything, he does it better than anyone. If he is being tested, his results are breathtakingly exceptional. If he is asked to draw a clock to measure whether he’s experiencing any cognitive deterioration — something worth tracking closely in part because his father died after being diagnosed with Alzheimer’s — then Trump will let you know that never has anyone drawn so amazing a clock. He will tell you that the doctors marveled at the precision of his placement of the 6-7-8-9 stretch and stood slack-jawed at how precisely the minute hand aimed at the 2. This is who Trump is, a guy who builds a 58-floor building in Manhattan and tells everyone it’s 68 floors high.
> 
> After Trump’s interview with Hannity, people were quick to point out the flip side of his boast about the doctors: Having medical professionals be amazed that you performed normally on an evaluation of your cognitive abilities is not exactly the endorsement it might have seemed like as the words were coming out of Trump’s mouth.
> 
> Another reason boasting about the test probably wasn’t a good idea. Which, if you think about it, is kind of a test of its own.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook


----------



## Macfury

Trump continues to say these things to dominate the news and social cycles--and it's working. Thanks for helping, Freddie!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump has no problem garnering attention for himself, even if most of things that he gets attention for are idiotic.


----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, he doesn't suffer the mental incapacity of Joe Biden!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump has no problem garnering attention for himself, even if most of things that he gets attention for are idiotic.


----------



## FeXL

And the WaPo ain't no shrink...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is no genius.


----------



## FeXL

Don’t bail out the Post Office



> Disappointingly, but not surprisingly, some members of Congress have attached another taxpayer bailout, this time $25 billion, to a politically influential entity, whose employees happened to be “represented” by influential unions, to the House-passed HEROES Act. The entity in question has, according to a General Accounting Office (GAO) study, accumulated almost $70 billion in losses over the past 13 years. The GAO has also calculated that this institution’s unfunded liabilities add up to an additional $143 billion in debt. This business also missed $48 billion in required payments for retiree health and pension benefits. It also already received $10 billion in the CARES Act.


More:



> I am a libertarian who is against bailing out any company or government program with taxpayer dollars. But even for those ok with bailouts and the economy improving, there is absolutely no good argument to bailout the U.S. Postal Service – again.
> 
> Instead of showering money on USPS, Congress should repeal the monopoly on first class mail delivery. I support privatizing the USPS, but short of that, reforms are needed. The management needs to be free to make decision based on the most efficient way to serve customers instead of how to please politicians, bureaucrats, and powerful employee unions.


Further:



> Another big cash loser is the high cost of labor. *In 2018, “labor costs accounted for 76 percent of the USPS’s overall operating costs.”* That is because as a government-protected entity, postal management has no incentive to resist union bosses’ demands. Even if caving into these demands will hurt its employees long-term by driving the Post Office into bankruptcy and/or forcing management to underfund employee pensions.


Bold mine.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Don’t bail out the Post Office


Nor Canada Post... a disgusting entity that should also lose its monopoly.


----------



## CubaMark

_Funny how all the folks who have droned on and on about government overreach, violation of constitutional rights, the need to protect the 2nd Amendment, etc., don't seem to have any problem with the use of unidentifiable militarized forces grabbing folks off the streets of U.S. cities and shoving them into unmarked vehicles.... _

*'These are his people': inside the elite border patrol unit Trump sent to Portland *

In January 2011, James Tomsheck, then a top internal affairs investigator inside US Customs and Border Protection, attended a meeting of about 100 senior CBP leaders in a hotel in Irvington, Virginia.

Amid the sanitized splendor of the hotel ballroom, he vividly recalls hearing the nation’s then highest-ranking border patrol agent, David Aguilar, laying out his vision for the future. Border patrol, the former CBP deputy commissioner said, was to become the “marine corps of the US federal law enforcement community”.

Another leading CBP figure remarked that border agents were not required to adhere to the same constitutional restraints on the use of force as other law enforcers. “We are not cops,” he said.

Fast forward to this month, when Tomsheck absorbed with mounting foreboding the images of federal officers – led by border patrol agents – wielding teargas and flash bangs against protesters in Portland, Oregon.

As news circulated of demonstrators being shot in the face with “less lethal” munitions, and of unidentified masked agents in camouflage strong-arming civilians into unmarked vans, the nightmare scenario Tomsheck had heard expressed by his bosses almost a decade ago – of border patrol becoming a nationwide militarized force operating outside constitutional constraints – was becoming real.

“Border patrol has always seen itself as a militarized force, and that aspiration is now being enabled by the current administration,” Tomsheck told the Guardian.

* * *

That he should have selected the US border patrol as the lead agency in his new reality-TV bid to seize control of civilian streets is especially alarming to those who are familiar with the agency’s track record. The most comprehensive tally of its fatal abuses, recorded by the Southern Border Community Coalition, has found at least 111 people have died as the result of an encounter with a border agent since 2010.

Tomsheck investigated numerous cases of what he concluded to be inappropriate use of lethal force resulting in needless death during his time at CBP internal affairs from 2006 to 2014. “Time and time again I saw incidents unfold where people – always Latinos, almost always Mexican citizens – lost their lives at the hands of border patrol agents.”

In the same period, the Bush administration drastically expanded the border patrol, almost doubling the number of agents to its current 20,000 and boosting its budget from $1.5bn in 2006 towards the $5bn it is today. The CBP now prides itself at being what it calls “one of the world’s largest law enforcement organizations”.

While the size and scope of the agency has mushroomed, its accountability has lagged behind. 

* * *

the federal officers deployed in Portland, ostensibly to protect federal property, were spearheaded by an elite unit, the border patrol tactical unit. Better known as Bortac, it is a quasi-militarised outfit equivalent to the Navy Seals.

Todd Miller, the author of Empire of Borders, has dubbed Bortac as “the robocops of US border patrol”.

Operating largely in secret, Bortac agents are trained for Swat-style raids on organized gangs smuggling immigrants or drugs across the US border. They have been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as in many Latin American countries.

Their frontline role in Portland was controversial because they have no apparent training in crowd control or the policing of protests. It built upon the Trump administration’s decision in February to dispatch Bortac into the US interior to work alongside Ice immigration officers in apprehending undocumented immigrants in Democratically-controlled “sanctuary cities”.

Jenn Budd spent six years working as a senior border patrol agent until 2001 when she blew the whistle on a station chief who was himself smuggling drugs. She was offered promotion in exchange for her silence on the subject, but resigned in disgust.

In her years as an agent she got to know Bortac well. She remembers them as the “biggest guys, like the jocks in a football team. They live in tight groups like the Navy Seals, spending their time in military-style training.”

In Budd’s experience, Bortac agents are among “the most violent and racist in all law enforcement”.

The quasi-military nature of the unit goes beyond their training, percolating into their state of mind. “They don’t exist within the realm of civilian law enforcement,” Budd said. “They view people they encounter in the military sense as enemy combatants, meaning they have virtually no rights.”

That strain of extra-judicial aggression runs through everything Bortac does, Budd said. “They don’t do normal vehicle stops. They will rip drivers from their seat, throw him against the side, put him in handcuffs – the same tactics you are now seeing Bortac agents use in Portland.”

Under the rules of the border patrol they are allowed to operate within 100 miles of any US border, including those with Mexico and Canada as well as both coasts. As a result, their writ covers almost two-thirds of the population of the country – some 200 million people – and embraces nine of the nation’s 10 largest cities, many of which Trump is now targeting.

* * *

Two other aspects of the culture of border patrol are relevant to the current furor over their mobilization in inner cities. Racism and Donald Trump.

Racism has plagued the institution for decades. Jenn Budd recalled that when she signed up for service in 1995 her Spanish instructor blithely informed her that Latino migrants were referenced within the agency as “tonks” and “********”.

“There’s a prevailing view that all migrants are criminals, and that if you stop someone in their vehicle who looks Latino and speaks Spanish, they are probably criminal too,” she said.

Last year ProPublica exposed a secret Facebook group for current and former border patrol agents whose posts were riddled with violent, racist and sexist language including jokes about migrant deaths. One of the posts exhorted agents to throw a “burrito at these bitches”, referring to Democratic congresswomen calling for an investigation of border facility abuses.

The Intercept went on to reveal that both the current chief of border patrol, Rodney Scott, and his predecessor Carla Provost, were among the group’s almost 9,500 members – almost half the entire force.

* * *

Border patrol has enthusiastically followed Trump’s executive orders, even when they mired the agency deep in controversy such as when its agents removed infants from their mothers’ arms under Trump’s 2018 policy of family separation.

The National Border Patrol Council, the agents’ union, is in lock-step with Trump. Of the top 20 posts on its Twitter feed, all but three are retweets of Trump’s personal or campaign messages.

In a video statement embedded on the feed, the union’s president, Brandon Judd, declares that “President Trump is the right candidate for the safety and security of this great nation, not Joe Biden. Please join me in supporting President Trump.”

The Trump-border patrol partnership bears all the hallmarks of a classic quid pro quo. On one side of the deal, the border patrol union lavishes praise on the president and supports his pitch for re-election.

On his side, Trump has repeatedly pushed for more resources for the agency and for its staff union, and is now actively promoting the fulfillment of its dream of becoming a militarized presence on America’s streets. Under his presidency, the brutalized and violent politics of the border are being extended across the nation.

“Trump has ratcheted up political ties to border patrol to another level,” Miller said. “He based his whole 2016 campaign around this, and it is now at the core of his 2020 re-election bid. These are his people.”

(The Guardian)​


----------



## Macfury

Good grief! I thought I was reading about Cuba!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

_The Grunion_?

Please...



CubaMark said:


> blah, blah, blah...


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Founder of Never-Trump Super PAC Arrested in $60M Bribery Scheme



> Matthew Borges, a lobbyist and former chairman of the Ohio Republican Party, was arrested in connection to a year-long $60 million federal bribery scheme. According to prosecutors, Borges and three other lobbyists allegedly conspired with the Republican Speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives to secure a $1.3 billion taxpayer bailout for an Ohio-based energy company, FirstEnergy Solutions.
> 
> Law enforcement officials claim that in exchange for helping FirstEnergy receive the bailout, which was meant to prevent the shutdown of two nuclear power plants, a nonprofit controlled by the House Speaker received $60 million.


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Ex-Con Dem Congressman Charged With Ballot Stuffing, Bribery



> Former Democratic congressman Michael "Ozzie" Myers, who was caught accepting bribes in an FBI sting operation decades ago, was charged Thursday on a multitude of voting fraud-related charges.
> 
> According to the charges, Myers, who worked as a political consultant in Philadelphia, bribed elections judge Domenick DeMuro to inflate voting results for candidates in Democratic primaries in 2014, 2015, and 2016. The former congressman was charged with stuffing the ballot box, bribing an elected official, falsifying records, voting multiple times in federal elections, and obstructing justice.


Related:

USPS Fails Mail-In Ballot Test



> CBS News decided to test the system upon which the government will entrust the sanctity of the ballot this November. And the U.S. Postal Service flubbed it.
> 
> This is not about gaming the system, or voter fraud, or stuffing the mail with fake ballots from illegal aliens. This is about the competency of the USPS to deliver official ballots sent through the mail on time, and to the right people. They proved that the 100 million or more Americans who plan to mail in their ballots should not expect their vote to be counted unless they mail it weeks prior to the election deadlines in each state.
> 
> And even then there’s no guarantee it will be processed and counted.
> 
> The parameters of the test were simple and straightforward. CBS mailed 100 ballots to locations across Philadelphia in an experiment to see how long it took the ballots to arrive. A post office box was set up to receive the returned ballots.
> 
> A few days later, another 100 ballots were mailed to another 100 locations in the city. The results should frighten Democrats who claim they are all about “every vote being counted.”
> 
> A week after initial ballots were sent, most ballots appeared to be missing from the P.O. box.
> 
> “I don’t see anything back there for you,” a postal worker told Dokoupil when he received the mail. “That’s all I have back there right now.”
> 
> After asking for a manager and explaining the situation to them, the votes were found.
> 
> *“They had them somewhere else,” the postal worker said.*​


'Magine that...


----------



## CubaMark

Gosh golly gee. Look at all the distraction going on. :lmao:

Keep it up, fellas. Any day now we'll just up and forget about the abuses of power and it'll be all puppies and rainbows....


----------



## Macfury

You pay no attention to any abuses of power by the left and then expect everyone to nod like lapdogs when you cite some kooky hoax blaming a non-leftist politician. Who can take you seriously?



CubaMark said:


> Gosh golly gee. Look at all the distraction going on. :lmao:
> 
> Keep it up, fellas. Any day now we'll just up and forget about the abuses of power and it'll be all puppies and rainbows....


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You pay no attention to any abuses of power by the left and then expect everyone to nod like lapdogs when you cite some kooky hoax blaming a non-leftist politician. Who can take you seriously?


But...but...but...

Mother Jones saaaaaaid! :-(


----------



## CubaMark

And for even more morbidly fascinating entertainment: *President Trump Interviewed on Axio/HBO.*


----------



## Macfury

Guess you wanted sugar-coated nonsense instead. Each to his own diet.


----------



## CubaMark

(Raging Pencils)


----------



## Macfury

Man, that's a badly done cartoon!


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

That was the wall that Obama ordered to be built in 2016. 

"I'm no political scientist..." How about "I'm a millennial idiot..."?


----------



## CubaMark

*The Unraveling of America *

As they stare into the mirror and perceive only the myth of their exceptionalism, Americans remain almost bizarrely incapable of seeing what has actually become of their country. The republic that defined the free flow of information as the life blood of democracy, today ranks 45th among nations when it comes to press freedom. In a land that once welcomed the huddled masses of the world, more people today favor building a wall along the southern border than supporting health care and protection for the undocumented mothers and children arriving in desperation at its doors. In a complete abandonment of the collective good, U.S. laws define freedom as an individual’s inalienable right to own a personal arsenal of weaponry, a natural entitlement that trumps even the safety of children; in the past decade alone 346 American students and teachers have been shot on school grounds.

The American cult of the individual denies not just community but the very idea of society. No one owes anything to anyone. All must be prepared to fight for everything: education, shelter, food, medical care. What every prosperous and successful democracy deems to be fundamental rights — universal health care, equal access to quality public education, a social safety net for the weak, elderly, and infirmed — America dismisses as socialist indulgences, as if so many signs of weakness.

* * *

This has nothing to do with political ideology, and everything to do with the quality of life. Finns live longer and are less likely to die in childhood or in giving birth than Americans. Danes earn roughly the same after-tax income as Americans, while working 20 percent less. They pay in taxes an extra 19 cents for every dollar earned. But in return they get free health care, free education from pre-school through university, and the opportunity to prosper in a thriving free-market economy with dramatically lower levels of poverty, homelessness, crime, and inequality. The average worker is paid better, treated more respectfully, and rewarded with life insurance, pension plans, maternity leave, and six weeks of paid vacation a year. All of these benefits only inspire Danes to work harder, with fully 80 percent of men and women aged 16 to 64 engaged in the labor force, a figure far higher than that of the United States.

American politicians dismiss the Scandinavian model as creeping socialism, communism lite, something that would never work in the United States. In truth, social democracies are successful precisely because they foment dynamic capitalist economies that just happen to benefit every tier of society. That social democracy will never take hold in the United States may well be true, but, if so, it is a stunning indictment, and just what Oscar Wilde had in mind when he quipped that the United States was the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without passing through civilization.

(RollingStone)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, bigot.

What a crock of lies, half-truths, fear and obfuscation.

I wouldn't even know where to begin to debunk this steaming pile of horse$h!t.

If this is truly what you (and your cadre of Prog idiots) believe, then professional help is the only solution.



CubaMark said:


> Blah, blah-blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, bigot.
> 
> What a crock of lies, half-truths, fear and obfuscation.
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to begin to debunk this steaming pile of horse$h!t.
> 
> If this is truly what you (and your cadre of Prog idiots) believe, then professional help is the only solution.


Whereas progress can be measured by the ability of the individual to achieve happiness, progs such as CM see only a prehistoric future - a return to primitive tribalism and groupthink as a reflection of greatness.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Whereas progress can be measured by the ability of the individual to achieve happiness, progs such as CM see only a prehistoric future - a return to primitive tribalism and groupthink as a reflection of greatness.


Jeezuz.

Considering the recent _mostly peaceful_ Burning, Looting & Murder spree, the irony of his first quoted sentence alone...

And, _and_, I have few issues with a return to living off the land. But do the Progs really think they will be the ones surviving? Christ, give these lefty Pantifa/BLM protesters an AR style _assault rifle_ and what do they do? Shoot themselves in the foot! :clap::lmao::lmao::lmao::clap:


----------



## CubaMark

*So what do you do, if you're Donald Trump and you've screwed things up so badly that you just know that you'd lose a fair election?*

*Easy!*

1/ Look at the covid pandemic and realize that in-person voting will be restricted. This is good! Low voter turnout has historically benefitted the right-wing.

2/ Reacting to individual states' plans to expand mail-in ballots (something used in the USA since the civil war), claim that they're inherently open to corruption and fraud, casting doubt on the process.

3/ Replace the head honcho at the US postal service (who then replaces other key postal administration officials) with one of your people.

4/ Block funding that would allow the USPS to meet this expanded need to deliver hundreds of millions of ballot applications and then ballots issuance.

5/ Have your guy at the USPS make sure it's an impossible task by removing mail sorting equipment and enacting internal policies that weaken the USPS' ability to deliver the mail.​

*What, then, is the result? *

*U.S. Postal Service warns Pennsylvania that mail-in ballots may be delivered too late*

The U.S. Postal Service says it's unlikely there will be enough time to request, complete and return mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania to be counted for the Nov. 3 presidential election.

Thomas J. Marshall, general counsel and executive vice president of the agency warned in a July 29 letter to State Secretary Kathy Boockvar of "a risk that ballots requested near the deadline under state law will not be returned by mail in time to be counted under your laws as we understand them."

* * *​
The concerns about mail delays and whether votes sent via the Postal Service will be counted come amid a political battle over providing funding for the agency so it can gear up to handle the extra volume.

Pennsylvania last year passed a law that allows all its voters to vote by mail. Social distancing because of the pandemic has inspired officials coast-to-coast to limit polling places and encourage citizens to use the mailbox.

But President Donald Trump believes the American mail-in voting tradition, with roots as far back as the Civil War, invites fraud. There’s no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the United States, according to numerous investigations and studies.

He's vowed to block extra funding — $3.6 billion has been proposed by congressional Democrats — for the Postal Service.

"Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work, so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots," Trump said on Fox Business Network on Thursday. "But if they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting, because they’re not equipped to have it."

Trump's presidential campaign is suing to block Nevada's expansive mail-in voting plans.

(NBC)​
On the bright side, Politico sees danger for Trump in pursuing this strategy.


----------



## Macfury

You've missed the main point. Mail-in ballots are not required to vote.

And why does the USPS need extra money to deliver postage-paid mail to its destination?


----------



## FeXL

Voter fraud? What voter fraud?

California Man Charged for Voting 3 Times, Claiming to Be His Dead Mother



> A Norwalk, California man has been charged with allegedly voting 3 times, pretending to be his dead mother.


----------



## FeXL

Mail-in vote fraud? What mail-in vote fraud?

Judge Orders New Election In Paterson, NJ, Because Of Mail-In Voting Fraud



> A state superior court judge ruled Wednesday that a new election will be held for a disputed Paterson, New Jersey city council seat after allegations of voter fraud via mail-in-ballots. The ruling comes only weeks after voter fraud charges were brought against the May 12 election winner Alex Mendez, per the Associated Press.
> 
> Mendez was charged with voter fraud along with Paterson Council Vice President Michael Jackson, Shelim Khalique and Abu Rayzen — all of whom have denied the charges, according to The Hill. An investigation performed by the U.S. Postal Service’s law enforcement arm found hundreds of mail-in ballots in a Paterson mailbox, as reported by the AP.


More:



> Ultimately, 800 ballots were discounted by the Passaic County Board of Elections and another 2,300 ballots were rendered ineligible after analyzing signatures on file and comparing them to those on the ballots, according to the Hill. *A Passaic County report shows that these 3,100 disqualified ballots is equal to more than 22% of the total votes cast in the election.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Judge Orders New Election In Paterson, NJ, Due to Widespread _Mail-In Vote Fraud_ Of Such an Extent That It Completely Eradicates Any Credibility of the "Vote"



> This is another Trumpian Lie, is the sort of thing AllahPundit would quote Damon Linker saying.


Related, too:

Study: 12 Percent of Voters in Virginia Could Be Registered Illegally



> Up to 12 percent of registered voters in Virginia could be on the rolls illegally, according to a new white paper circulating among officials at the Department of Justice's front office and members of Congress.
> 
> Using data from one Virginia county's jury pools, which are largely drawn from voter registration rolls, the study conducted by the National Election Integrity Task Force, found that 3 percent of the prospective jury pool—a total of 12,917 people—were ineligible to serve due to self-reporting as non-citizens, who are not allowed to vote under federal law. One percent self-reported as convicted felons, who are also ineligible to vote. An additional 2 percent were "likely unlawful participants due to self-reporting as non-English speaking," and another 6 percent "are worthy of further investigation due to the undeliverability, and non-response, to the solicitation for jury duty, which is a crime in Virginia."
> 
> *Taken together and extrapolating the data, the authors estimate up to 12 percent of voters in the entire state of Virginia could be registered illegally. "At this point in time, the entire Virginia voting roll should be considered untrustworthy and invalid," the paper argues.*


Bold mine.

So, the Progs are screaming blue murder about having to risk Chinese coronavirus by showing up at a public poll to vote.

Question: Do these masks they're trying to force on everyone work or not? If so, gitcher asses out & vote! If not, quit trying to force them on everybody!


----------



## CubaMark

(RagingPencils)​


----------



## Macfury

For once I agree. The USPS pension fund is baked in to the price of postage, and unwillingly funded by the public. Its large size is significantly out of line with reality.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> For once I agree. The USPS pension fund is baked in to the price of postage, and unwillingly funded by the public. Its large size is significantly out of line with reality.


Hmmm. Maybe they could incorporate it into the Congressional/Senate pension fund and embezzle they lot?


----------



## eMacMan

OK so they are protesting the RNC convention in Charlotte, NC. 
https://news.yahoo.com/protesters-arrested-charlotte-days-gop-200709248.html

Are they protesting importing vermin and scum into the state? Noooo that would make sense. If you want a campaign to keep all non-local politicians out of your state, I am with you all the way. As long as you don't ship the skunks to Alberta!

The protest is more of that fascist fraud AKA Black Lives Matters. Why is it that I should care about 220 blacks killed by US cops annually, but totally ignore the other 780 lives they snuff out annually? The other 780 don't matter because they aren't black?

Give me a break.

BTW Looking at the photos Soros must not be paying them enough, way more cops than protestors and there were not that many cops. So why do a dozen BLM protestors make lamestream headlines, while a million anti-masking protestors in Germany get denigrated down to a few thousand?


----------



## FeXL

eMacMan said:


> So why do a dozen BLM protestors make lamestream headlines, while a million anti-masking protestors in Germany get denigrated down to a few thousand?


'Cause it don't follow the narrative...


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* _Fox News’ Chris Wallace Laughs When Trump Brags About Taking ‘Very Hard’ Cognitive Test_


----------



## Macfury

That article was published more than a month ago. Are you having some cognitive challenges, CM?


----------



## FeXL

I was wondering what Trump was being charged with. P!$$ing off Progs?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> I was wondering what Trump was being charged with. P!$$ing off Progs?



I admire Trump's ability to dominate the news cycle with stuff like this. Genius!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Related:* _Fox News’ Chris Wallace Laughs When Trump Brags About Taking ‘Very Hard’ Cognitive Test_



Nice!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> I admire Trump's ability to dominate the news cycle with stuff like this. Genius!


I love his ability to troll the bastards...


----------



## FeXL

Just across the 49th from me.

Bullock Pays Women Less Than Men Even As He Celebrates ‘Women’s Equality Day’



> Montana Democratic governor Steve Bullock repeatedly celebrated "Women's Equality Day" without addressing the equal pay shortcomings in his own office.
> 
> Bullock took to Twitter on Wednesday to commemorate the anniversary, saying that "We've come a long way in narrowing the wage gap" in Montana. Bullock did not, however, mention his history of paying female staffers less than their male counterparts.
> 
> Women working in Bullock's office have earned, on average, just 84 cents for every dollar paid to men since 2013, a Washington Free Beacon analysis found. Bullock has never achieved pay equity over his eight-year tenure, and women were paid just 78 cents on the dollar in 2018.


Typical. Do as I say, not as I do. Hypocrite...

Montana Dem Goes Pro-Gun in Latest Ad Despite ‘F’ Rating From NRA



> Montana Democratic Senate nominee Steve Bullock is campaigning as a fighter for gun rights despite his past support for strict new gun-control laws—a record that earned him an "F" rating from the National Rifle Association.
> 
> "I believe in our individual right to bear arms," Bullock said in a recent ad, which featured pictures of him hunting. "I took on Democrats in Washington to defend it."
> 
> Bullock, a two-term governor, expressed support for universal background checks in the ad. He failed to mention his past support for a range of other gun-control proposals—including a ban on the sale of so-called assault weapons. *Bullock has flip-flopped on gun issues over the years.* Though he previously opposed new gun-control measures like universal background checks during his 2016 gubernatorial reelection campaign, he embraced restrictions when he launched his failed presidential campaign.
> 
> "You know, I would Jake," Bullock told CNN's Jake Tapper in 2018 when asked if he'd support an assault weapons ban. "Now, there are things that we can do immediately, everything from red flag laws to closing, sort of having a universal background check, to making sure that we're doing everything we can, some age restrictions, magazine restrictions."


Bold mine.

Whichever way the political wind blows...

And, give a little on gun control, take a buttload on a carbon tax under the false Prog god of _climate change_:

Montana Gov Bullock’s Climate Council’s Leaked Plan Pushes For Carbon Tax



> A climate council Montana Gov. Steve Bullock established in 2019 suggested that the Democratic governor implement a state carbon tax plan to address climate change in a leaked draft of recommendations obtained by the Daily Caller News Foundation.
> 
> A carbon tax could lower emissions and generate revenue for Montana’s economy, as well as expand the state’s private industry, a document from Montana’s Climate Solution Council reads. The draft document, titled “Montana Climate Solutions Plan” and dated August 2020, has not been signed by Bullock but suggests several ways for the state to tackle climate change.
> 
> Four members of the 41-person council dissented to the recommendation to tax carbon emissions.


----------



## FeXL

In Prog stronghold Detroit, you say? Shocka...

Detroit Absentee Ballot Chaos: ‘So Inaccurate We Can’t Even Attempt to Make Right’



> Wayne County, Michigan, leaders want the Secretary of State to intervene after there was chaos while counting absentee ballots on primary election night.
> 
> The _Detroit News_ reported:
> 
> Recorded ballot counts in 72% of Detroit’s absentee voting precincts didn’t match the number of ballots cast, spurring officials in Michigan’s largest county to ask the state to investigate ahead of a pivotal presidential election.
> 
> Without an explanation from Detroit election workers for the mismatches, the Wayne County Board of Canvassers requested this week for Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson’s office to examine the “training and processes” used in Detroit’s Aug. 4 primary, which one official described as a “perfect storm” of challenges. The board is charged with certifying election results.​
> Forty-six percent of all precinct numbers were askew, canvassers were told.
> 
> According to state law, precincts cannot be counted where poll books — that is, a list of registered voters in that precinct — are not matched with the ballots.


----------



## CubaMark

_*It's a two-for-one deal as Trump goes for the United States' Postal Service's jugular:*_

*Trump admits he's blocking additional postal service funding to stop mail-in ballots*

This is only part and parcel of the Right's overall plans for the USPS, of course. As for the USPS' profitability, an internet search provides interestingly polarized perspectives (It is! It isn't!), but this is a pretty good explanation .



# # #

_What's happening with Trump, the DOJ, and that pesky rape case?_

*Why Is the DOJ Intervening in E. Jean Carroll’s Suit Against Trump? A Former US Attorney Explains.*

*Meanwhile, the President's exemplar history of treating women with respect [/sarcasm] is coming home to haunt him...*

t-Rump is refusing to supply a DNA sample in his rape case involving Jean Carroll, and now he's illegally bringing the full weight of the DOJ against her.

But what if Mary Trump gives a DNA sample to the Carroll team? If it's a close match to the prosecution's sample t-Rump's defense, Barr or no Barr, falls right in the ****ter.

Mary Trump is already tweeting with Carroll. This could be a significant thing.​
* * *​
t-Rump wants to use the DOJ to defend his rape case. This is only slightly illegal in the same way that Krakatoa was slightly noisy.

When former-president Bill Clinton met then-AG Loretta Lynch on an airplane in 2016 the impropriety had even the "liberal" media gasping for air. Fox News, in their usual refined and dignified way, acted as though Bill had returned the Louisiana Purchase to the French for a handful of Quarter-Pounders and a skate key.

Today, Bill Barr is so far up t-Rump's ass he not only can count every kernel of corn but knows each of their children by name.

So far, Fox News' response has been muffled as their fangs were buried in t-Rump's tiny, drug-withered putz.​
(RagingPencils)


----------



## Macfury

Well, if _Raging Pencils_ has the president in its crosshairs, it's anybody's guess how this turns out.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

How the gov't run USPS _actually_ works...

USPS mail is found dumped at two spots in Glendale, prompting investigation



> Piles of unopened United States Postal Service mail and packages were discovered dumped at two separate locations this week in Glendale, authorities said Friday.


In addition, any comment on Joey Wetfingers' sexual assault?

Askin' for a friend...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> How the gov't run USPS _actually_ works...
> 
> USPS mail is found dumped at two spots in Glendale, prompting investigation
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, any comment on Joey Wetfingers' sexual assault?
> 
> Askin' for a friend...


A full-out raging case of TDS...


----------



## CubaMark

*US deficit officially hits $3 trillion amid pandemic*

The federal budget deficit surpassed $3 trillion through August, according to official Treasury data released Friday, and is expected to hit $3.3 trillion when the fiscal year wraps up at the end of this month.

The figures, which confirm earlier estimates from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), show that the deficit is on track to be the largest in the country’s financial history. The $3.3 trillion figure is well over double the largest previous record of $1.4 trillion in 2009, during the financial crisis.

The data released Friday showed that the government has spent more than $6 trillion so far this year, a monumental leap over the $4.4 trillion it spent in the entirety of 2019. That increase was largely due to emergency relief efforts to combat the COVID-19 pandemic and the economic downturn it caused.

Revenues, in the meantime, remained largely unchanged but could only account for about half of the spending, leaving the Treasury to borrow the rest.

(The Hill)​


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> *US deficit officially hits $3 trillion amid pandemic*The federal budget deficit surpassed $3 trillion through August, according to official Treasury data released Friday, and is expected to hit $3.3 trillion when the fiscal year wraps up at the end of this month.
> 
> The figures, which confirm earlier estimates from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), show that the deficit is on track to be the largest in the country’s financial history. The $3.3 trillion figure is well over double the largest previous record of $1.4 trillion in 2009, during the financial crisis.
> 
> The data released Friday showed that the government has spent more than $6 trillion so far this year, a monumental leap over the $4.4 trillion it spent in the entirety of 2019. That increase was largely due to emergency relief efforts to combat the COVID-19 pandemic and the economic downturn it caused.
> 
> Revenues, in the meantime, remained largely unchanged but could only account for about half of the spending, leaving the Treasury to borrow the rest.
> 
> (The Hill)​


 Uh Covid did not cause the downturn. The idiots who listened to the obviously bogus predictions from WHO and proceeded to demolish the economy on the basis of those predictions bear full responsibility.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> The idiots who listened to the obviously bogus predictions from WHO and proceeded to demolish the economy on the basis of those predictions bear full responsibility.


Is CubaMark a WHO supporter...?


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Questions, questions, questions...

I was under the impression that Progs love gov't spending.

1) Is $3 trillion not enough?
2) Is $3 trillion too much?
3) Is the amount OK, the issue is it wasn't spent on pet Prog projects (globull warming, windmills, illegal aliens, etc.)?
4) If you are against the amount of spending, do you have any comment on Prinz Dumkopf's current deficit? How about the cost of the Kokanee Groper's proposal to turn Canuckistan into the planet's newest socialist Prog $h!thole, a la Venuzuela?
5) If Trump had not spent all this money to counter the fallout from the Chinese coronavirus panic, would you have then criticized him for not spending enough?



CubaMark said:


> US deficit officially hits $3 trillion amid pandemic


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Is CubaMark a WHO supporter...?


Has he ever criticized anything UN related?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> Questions, questions, questions...
> 
> I was under the impression that Progs love gov't spending.
> 
> 1) Is $3 trillion not enough?
> 2) Is $3 trillion too much?
> 3) Is the amount OK, the issue is it wasn't spent on pet Prog projects (globull warming, windmills, illegal aliens, etc.)?
> 4) If you are against the amount of spending, do you have any comment on Prinz Dumkopf's current deficit? How about the cost of the Kokanee Groper's proposal to turn Canuckistan into the planet's newest socialist Prog $h!thole, a la Venuzuela?
> 5) If Trump had not spent all this money to counter the fallout from the Chinese coronavirus panic, would you have then criticized him for not spending enough?



You're asking his OPINION on this? Good luck....


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

It's fascinating to see CM moving in lockstep with the Mockingbird media with his daily "revelations" approaching election day. What an independent thinker!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Right on the money, Mark!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Mockingbird. Exactly!


----------



## CubaMark

So how are all you members of the Trump Brownnosers' Club doing with revelations that the Cheetoh-in-Chief knew the coronavirus was far more contagious than he publicly stated? Are you onboard with his (ridiculous) claim the he didn't want to "drive people into a frenzy" with panic? What do you think of Trump stating that coronovirus is worse than "the most strenuous flu"?

Or are your blinders firmly affixed?

FWIW, Bob Woodward should be held as responsible as Trump for keeping the recording hidden away. Had it been released at the time, it might very well have led to a different outcome in terms of US infections and deaths, if Trump's coronavirus policies had been forced to match up with the reality of the contagion.

I fully expect the usual suspects in here to go off on a "CNN IS FAKE NOOOOOOOOZZZZZZ!!!!!", but the story below contains video of Trump lying his ass off..... 

Now, go head, deflect and distract, as you always do.... :baby:

*CNN Interrupts White House Press Briefing to Accuse Kayleigh McEnany of ‘Lying’*

CNN cut away from a White House press briefing Wednesday and anchor Brianna Keilar told her viewers press secretary Kayleigh McEnany was “lying” about President Donald Trump’s coronavirus response.

During the briefing, McEnany was asked to respond to new reporting from Bob Woodward that Trump knew about the coronavirus threat in early February, but downplayed it significantly.

“The president never downplayed the virus,” McEnany said. “The president expressed calm.”

In a Washington Post article that shares details from Woodward’s forthcoming book, “Rage,” it was revealed Wednesday that Trump received was warned by national security adviser Robert O’Brien in late January that the coronavirus had the potential to be the “biggest national security threat” of his presidency.

On Feb. 7, according to the Post, Trump told Woodward that the coronavirus was “deadly stuff” and more serious than “your strenuous flu.”

In public remarks Feb. 26, Trump told the public the coronavirus was “like a regular flu.”

After cutting away from the briefing Wednesday, Keilar said, “That was the press secretary at the White House lying. She said the president never downplayed the coronavirus.”

From there, she laid out what Trump did say earlier this year as the pandemic began, highlighting instances when he said the virus would “disappear” like “a miracle” and “will go away.”

(CNN)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

There’s a lot of Trump koolaid drinkers out there, including some in this very forum. Watch the rationalizations emerge.


----------



## Macfury

Trump was following the "science" of Dr. Fauci. You can't blame him for relying on experts.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You're asking his OPINION on this? Good luck....


I just find it hilarious when he spouts crap like he does, gets his ears pinned back in a response, & then vanishes for days or weeks on end with no further answers.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> Trump was following the "science" of Dr. Fauci. You can't blame him for relying on experts.


You...you...RATIONALIZER!!!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

The iron...



CubaMark said:


> Or are your blinders firmly affixed?


----------



## eMacMan

So watched a bit of the Broncos game last night. 

The lack of butts in the seats was a real turn off. Then came the Biden ad. Not sure what he said. He was wearing a mask and my immediate reaction was: At least he is clearly admitting he is a robber and a thief, so he must be running for prez so he can add murderer to his resumé.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Quite frankly, Ginsberg's "wish" is strictly partisan and need not be acknowledged.


----------



## CubaMark

_The Great White Hope was in fine form list night, eh? _ *snicker*

*Trump wouldn't condemn white supremacists, tells Proud Boys 'stand back and stand by' in Biden debate*










In the first presidential debate, Trump refused to condemn white supremacists and racism.

He said instead to these groups, and he shouted out the Proud Boys in particular, "Stand back and Stand by."Is that a command to his armed base to prepare for violence after Trump loses the election?

(BoingBoing)​
*Related:*





First presidential debate: Fact-checking Trump and Biden on mail ballots, the economy, COVID and more (CBS News)
5 key takeaways from Joe Biden and Donald Trump's 1st presidential debate (ABC News)
Vicious first debate between Trump and Biden offered little on policy, lots of conflict (CNBC)
Completely unhinged: First Trump-Biden presidential debate turned into train wreck (AMNY)
Who won the Trump-Biden debate? 6 moments that defined the night (News10)


----------



## Macfury

Mark, you are a partisan hack. These "fact check" links are meaningful only to you and reinforce your own mainstream worldview.


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Thought that was Joey Wetfingers & Heels-Up Harris?  You know, representing the party of youth & inclusiveness...



CubaMark said:


> The Great White Hope was in fine form list night, eh?


You aren't seriously saying that Trump is going to lose, are you? :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Even with all the ballot & voter fraud?

As usual, your Prog blinders obfuscate reality. Pay attention to the fine print, what XiNN _isn't_ saying. Also, I'd highly recommend ignoring the very same polls that predicted Bill's Wife's win 4 years ago... :lmao::lmao::lmao:



CubaMark said:


> ..."Is that a command to his armed base to prepare for violence after Trump loses the election?​


Questions: Why wouldn't Joey Wetfingers agree to a urine sample? Afraid the drug cocktail he's on to offset the Sundowners would reveal itself? What about the 3rd party ear canal inspection? What has he to hide? A radio receiver? :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Nails it...


----------



## eMacMan

Lord why would anyone expect anything intelligent to come out of a debate between those two piles of 5#!7. Only possible result is a bigger pile of 5#!7


----------



## Macfury

This:
*
Chris Wallace's Impartiality Questioned....*


https://babylonbee.com/news/chris-w...-wearing-giant-foam-finger-reading-biden-2020


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

*Coronavirus Panics After Testing Positive For Trump
*
https://babylonbee.com/news/coronavirus-panics-after-testing-positive-for-trump



> Coronavirus has begun panicking after testing positive for Trump.
> 
> The test came back late Thursday evening, and doctors confirmed the worst: the coronavirus has contracted Trump-45.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> *Coronavirus Panics After Testing Positive For Trump
> *
> https://babylonbee.com/news/coronavirus-panics-after-testing-positive-for-trump


:clap::lmao::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

They should have given Trump no more than $750 worth of treatment, since that’s all he paid in taxes.


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> They should have given Trump no more than $750 worth of treatment, since that’s all he paid in taxes.


Or told him it's past Easter so it can't be covid.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Or told him it's past Easter so it can't be covid.



Exactement as the French would say.


----------



## Macfury

You would tie level of healthcare in DC to federal taxes?



Freddie_Biff said:


> They should have given Trump no more than $750 worth of treatment, since that’s all he paid in taxes.


----------



## FeXL

FFS...

Read. Learn.



Freddie_Biff said:


> They should have given Trump no more than $750 worth of treatment, since that’s all he paid in taxes.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> They should have given Trump no more than $750 worth of treatment, since that’s all he paid in taxes.


So just to be clear are you suggesting that the vast majority of retired Canadians whose income is below the taxable thresh hold, should be denied health care?

Should teachers whose entire income comes from the taxes others have paid, and who only pay back a fraction of that income in taxes, also be denied health care?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Should teachers whose entire income comes from the taxes others have paid, and who only pay back a fraction of that income in taxes, also be denied health care?


What fraction? 2%? That's almost half!


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What fraction? 2%? That's almost half!


Yep. Multiply that by 8 years and it's nearly 40%! :lmao:

Prog math. Gotta love it...


----------



## smashedbanana

Way to take the joke gentlemen.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Way to take the joke gentlemen.


A good joke requires better construction.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Way to take the joke gentlemen.



Whoosh.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

Those three stoners pay no taxes!


----------



## CubaMark

*F.B.I. Says a Michigan Militia Plotted to Kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer*
*Six men had been discussing taking Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, hostage since at least the summer, the F.B.I. said.*










Six men motivated by anti-government views were charged with plotting with a militia group to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, hoping to carry out the kidnapping before the presidential election, the F.B.I. said on Thursday.

The six men had talked about taking Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, hostage since at least the summer, according to a criminal complaint filed in federal court and unsealed on Thursday. They met over the summer for firearms training and combat drills and tried to make explosives; they also gathered several times to discuss the mission, including in the basement of a shop in Michigan that was accessible only through a “trap door” under a rug, the F.B.I. said.

The men had surveilled Ms. Whitmer’s vacation home in August and September, and they indicated that they wanted to take her hostage before the election in November, Richard J. Trask II, an F.B.I. special agent, said in the criminal complaint. In July, one of the men said the group should take Ms. Whitmer hostage and move her to a “secure location” in Wisconsin for a “trial,” Mr. Trask said.

(...)

The F.B.I. said it had learned about the group by intercepting encrypted messages and because it had undercover agents and confidential informants working with the group.

The six men were charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, which can carry a life sentence. Their names were listed in court documents as Adam Fox, Kaleb Franks, Brandon Caserta, Ty Garbin, Daniel Harris and Barry Croft. Mr. Croft lives in Delaware and the other five live in Michigan, the authorities said. No lawyers were immediately listed for the men.

The authorities said that Mr. Fox and Mr. Croft had decided to “unite others” to “take violent action” against state governments that they thought were violating the Constitution and that Mr. Fox was the one to initiate contact with a Michigan-based militia group. The F.B.I. said he had talked of storming the Michigan statehouse with 200 men and trying Ms. Whitmer for treason.

(...)

Ms. Whitmer has been the subject of attack from right-wing protesters for measures she imposed to control the spread of the coronavirus.

In April, thousands of people gathered at the State Capitol to protest the executive orders she issued shutting down most of the state to help stop the spread of the virus that has now infected more than 145,000 Michiganders and killed more than 7,000.

President Trump openly encouraged such protests, tweeting, “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!”

The protests featured some signs with swastikas, Confederate flags and language that advocated violence against Ms. Whitmer, including one man who carried a doll with brown hair hanging from a noose. Many in the crowd carried semiautomatic weapons, leading some Democrats in the Legislature to call for a ban on guns in the Capitol.

(...)

All 50 states have some manner of ban on private paramilitary activity, leading some groups to avoid calling themselves “militias.”

In response to the charges on Thursday, Mike Shirkey, the Republican majority leader in the State Senate, wrote on Twitter that a “threat against our Governor is a threat against us all” and called the men accused of the conspiracy “traitors.”
“We condemn those who plotted against her and our government,” he wrote. “They are not patriots. There is no honor in their actions.”

(NYTimes)​


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

And this is worse than a summer of actual Burning, Looting & Murder how? Be precise.



CubaMark said:


> Blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> And this is worse than a summer of actual Burning, Looting & Murder how? Be precise.


Precision? That's for conservatives. He's got all the FEEEEEEEEELS!


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Way to take the joke gentlemen.



It is true that Freddie's math skills are a standing joke on this forum. Though sadly Freddie's standing in the math world seems much closer to prone and ten toes up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

#blackfliesmatter


----------



## Macfury

Make some captions for your two flybait heroes, Freddy!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *F.B.I. Says a Michigan Militia Plotted to Kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer*
> *Six men had been discussing taking Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, hostage since at least the summer, the F.B.I. said.*


Surprised to see you calling out these Antifa, anti-Trumpers!


----------



## Macfury

I was waiting for CM to call out the Bidens for corruption "because he hates the candidates equally."


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I was waiting for CM to call out the Bidens for corruption "because he hates the candidates equally."



Well Clinton did set the bar very low but Bush did manage to lower it. Obama dropped it another notch and Trump had to dig a pretty deep trench to get it even lower. 

I am sure that Biden has the skill set needed to come out below them all.


----------



## CubaMark

*Fauci: This Is Still the First Wave*










Dr. Anthony Fauci says that while semantics isn't exactly the most important issue right now, he believes it is incorrect to say a "third wave" of coronavirus infections is happening. Cases are once again rising across the US, with daily case numbers exceeding records set during a spike in cases in July—but to call this the third wave would imply that the first wave receded to a low level at some point, which was never the case, Fauci tells Yahoo Finance. "I look at it more as an elongated and an exacerbation of the original first wave," Fauci says, noting that the number of new cases never fell much below 20,000 a day.

"We never really cleared and got down to a very low baseline, which I would consider to be less than 10,000 cases per day, maybe just a couple thousand a day," Fauci says. He says now, "we're at the highest baseline we've ever been, which is really quite precarious." Whether you want to call it a third wave or the first wave, "it's not good news," he says. The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director says the agency's priority is now working to prevent severe cases of COVID-19 because trying to stop all infections is becoming an unrealistic goal, the Observer reports. In a BBC interview that aired Sunday, Fauci said that rather than having "turned a corner" in the pandemic as President Trump claimed in last week's debate, key indicators show things are "actually going in the wrong direction."

(Newser)​


----------



## Macfury

What a poor article. Increased testing is resulting in increased cases. Meanwhile, flu deaths are being rolled into COVID-19 deaths. How anybody can listen to Fauci at this point defies belief.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What a poor article. Increased testing is resulting in increased cases. Meanwhile, flu deaths are being rolled into COVID-19 deaths. How anybody can listen to Fauci at this point defies belief.



What a poor reaction to a medical expert. How anyone can not pay attention to what Dr. Fauci has to say at this point defies belief. The US is nowhere near rounding a corner yet. It’s just bull***** Trump spouts because he’s desperate to get re-elected. Fortunately most people see through it. It will be gratifying to see Trump’s ass handed to him in a week.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. Fauci told people in March that the US had nothing to worry about regarding COVID-19 and that people shouldn't hesitate to get on cruise ships. I tend not to listen to "medical experts" who are spectacularly wrong.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a poor reaction to a medical expert. How anyone can not pay attention to what Dr. Fauci has to say at this point defies belief.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Dr. Fauci told people in March that the US had nothing to worry about regarding COVID-19 and that people shouldn't hesitate to get on cruise ships. I tend not to listen to "medical experts" who are spectacularly wrong.



Let's not forget his predictions of American deaths ranging from 1 to 4 million. Or we need to lock down the country for a couple of weeks, just to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. How about his sponsored bogus studies on HCQ? Maybe the bogus studies that his master Bill Gates sponsored claiming the virus could linger on surfaces for 3 or 4 days? .....

The man lies through his teeth as often as Trudeau, Trump or Hiliary, and for anyone who looks any deeper than the MS media presentations those lies are blatantly obvious.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes. Believe all "experts".

Are you referring to all the Chinese "experts" who claimed from the get-go that there was no such thing as human-to-human transmission?

Are you referring to all the WHO "experts" that parroted the Chinese lies, that failed to heed Taiwan's sage advice, that changed it's mind on Chinese coronavirus issues depending on which way the political flags flew?

Are you referring to our very own "expert", Theresa Tam, whose opinion on Chinese coronavirus issues flip-flopped like a trout on the river bank?

Precisely which "expert" opinion do you think we should heed, Freddie? And on what day of the week?

Tomes could be written on all the "expert" Chinese coronavirus opinions that changed (and back again!) and all the ones that were outright wrong. Anyone who swallows "expert" opinion without conducting due diligence on their own is an idiot.

Are you an idiot, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What a poor reaction to a medical expert.


Well, Freddie, you've failed to cough up all the rice in China from the last political bet we made. What are you willing to bet this time? 'Cause you gotta stop believing the same polls (and idiots) that called for Bill's Wife to win just 4 short years ago.

Launder your crying towels, Freddie. Trump is a shoo-in for a second term. I called it when he announced his candidacy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It will be gratifying to see Trump’s ass handed to him in a week.


----------



## eMacMan

Let's not forget Fauci's latest and greatest lie;
*We're all gonna die if we don't wear masks.*

Now back in March Fauci pointed to 14 CDC endorsed studies that concluded that masks do nothing to stop viruses. Several of those studies went further and concluded that masks worn for extended periods of time could harm the wearer. A logical conclusion considering that masks do cause you to rebreath your exhaust fumes, and also concentrate bacteria and mold spores in a warm moist environment right in front of your nose.

That science has not changed, there are no new studies contradicting those earlier studies. And way back in July the CDC did a survey of Covid hospital admissions. Turns out 70% wore masks all the time, 15% most of the time and 3.9% never. Small sample but you could probably safely conclude that masks may actually make you more vulnerable to the virus.

Still Fauci says; 'We all have to wear masks or we're gonna die.' and Freddie believes him. Must be some sort of religious revelation because it runs completely counter to the scientific studies.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Still Fauci says; 'We all have to wear masks or we're gonna die.' and Freddie believes him. Must be some sort of religious revelation because it runs completely counter to the scientific studies.


If masks can save just 5% of COVID fatalities, that's like 40% over 8 years!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Dr. Fauci told people in March that the US had nothing to worry about regarding COVID-19 and that people shouldn't hesitate to get on cruise ships. I tend not to listen to "medical experts" who are spectacularly wrong.


_"President Donald Trump said Wednesday that he believes the coronavirus will "just disappear" even as cases explode across the U.S. and top health officials warn that the country needs to do more to stop the spread.

"I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope," Trump said in an interview with Fox Business Network.

When asked if he "still" believed the virus would "disappear" at some point as he had suggested earlier in the year when the pandemic first hit the U.S, Trump said, "I do.""

(NBC News, 1 July 2020)​_
Funny how you let Trump off the hook for his past comments, but continue to roast Fauci. Hypocrite much?


----------



## Macfury

I happen to agree with Trump, Wear a mask or stay apart to protect yourself if you are at high risk. Otherwise, go about your business. The virus will disappear when herd immunity is achieved -- or an acceptable vaccine is developed.



CubaMark said:


> _"President Donald Trump said Wednesday that he believes the coronavirus will "just disappear" even as cases explode across the U.S. and top health officials warn that the country needs to do more to stop the spread.
> 
> "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope," Trump said in an interview with Fox Business Network.
> 
> When asked if he "still" believed the virus would "disappear" at some point as he had suggested earlier in the year when the pandemic first hit the U.S, Trump said, "I do.""
> 
> (NBC News, 1 July 2020)​_
> Funny how you let Trump off the hook for his past comments, but continue to roast Fauci. Hypocrite much?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> _"President Donald Trump said Wednesday that he believes the coronavirus will "just disappear" even as cases explode across the U.S. and top health officials warn that the country needs to do more to stop the spread.
> 
> "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear, I hope," Trump said in an interview with Fox Business Network.
> 
> When asked if he "still" believed the virus would "disappear" at some point as he had suggested earlier in the year when the pandemic first hit the U.S, Trump said, "I do.""
> 
> (NBC News, 1 July 2020)​_
> Funny how you let Trump off the hook for his past comments, but continue to roast Fauci. Hypocrite much?



No kidding. Trump is the biggest source of misinformation that exists.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I happen to agree with Trump, Wear a mask or stay apart to protect yourself if you are at high risk. Otherwise, go about your business. The virus will disappear when herd immunity is achieved -- or an acceptable vaccine is developed.



Most experts believe about 80% of people need to be exposed to achieve herd immunity. What’s your number? Is the current less than 10% acceptable?


----------



## Macfury

60% minimum.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Most experts believe about 80% of people need to be exposed to achieve herd immunity. What’s your number? Is the current less than 10% acceptable?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> 60% minimum.



And how did you arrive at 60%? Seems low. Also seems unattainable based on current numbers.


----------



## CubaMark

And how many people have to die or be left with lasting damage in order to achieve that supposed "herd immunity"? 

Given that this is a _novel_ virus, and *not another strain of influenza*, upon what data are you basing that percentage (if it's even achievable)?

Current coronavirus stats for the last seven days from the US Government's Center for Disease Control (CDC):

TOTAL CASES: 8,680,611

CASES IN LAST 7 DAYS PER 100K: 21.2 (that's 489,769 since October 20)

TOTAL DEATHS: 225,084

That trendline ain't exactly encouraging:


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> And how did you arrive at 60%? Seems low. Also seems unattainable based on current numbers.


What would prevent that percentage from being obtainable?


----------



## Macfury

Doesn't matter what the virus is, novel or otherwise. You can stretch out the deaths and lasting damage over many years or over fewer years. Given the minuscule death rate and "lasting damage" rate of people under 30, they should be free to go about their business if they choose. 



CubaMark said:


> And how many people have to die or be left with lasting damage in order to achieve that supposed "herd immunity"?
> 
> Given that this is a _novel_ virus, and *not another strain of influenza*, upon what data are you basing that percentage (if it's even achievable)?
> 
> Current coronavirus stats for the last seven days from the US Government's Center for Disease Control (CDC):
> 
> TOTAL CASES: 8,680,611
> 
> CASES IN LAST 7 DAYS PER 100K: 21.2
> 
> TOTAL DEATHS: 225,084
> 
> That trendline ain't exactly encouraging:


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Most experts believe about 80% of people need to be exposed to achieve herd immunity. What’s your number? Is the current less than 10% acceptable?


Don't look Freddie this post contains numbers and may make your head explode.

There is huge a difference between being exposed, and being infected or producing anti-bodies. The vast majority of those exposed do not develop symptoms and do not even trigger a positive PCR or antibody test. It is absolutely shameful to try and conflate the two. FWIW The grandaddy of all pandemics, the Spanish flu, saw an infection rate of about 30%. Most viruses peter out with an infection rate of around 10% or even less.

If we look at the death graph for Sweden and even Canada we can see that deaths are now quite low. Although the Canadian death rate is currently being slightly inflated by the simple expedient of including seasonal flu deaths as covid should they happen to test positive for Covid and most cases of influenza do test positive. 

An interesting stat. According to the Canadian government, as of today Canada has seen 9812 Covid deaths. Of those only 321 were under the age of 60 and only 2 were under the age of 20. Even so that same age group claims nearly 75% of the misnamed 'cases' which are actually infections. The death rate for that group is .15% of those confirmed to be infected and probably a lot lower than that. 

So why on earth are those who are least at risk being brutalized in this manner? And how can anyone possibly justify masking kids when there have only been 2 deaths and 45 ICU admissions over the entire 8 months?


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Blah, blah, blah.

The more people get tested, the more "cases" show up. Not limited to, but including, the 50% or more false positives generated by the tests. At this rate, there will soon be 100% of the planet testing positive!

If you're going to quote data, at least know what the hell you're quoting...



CubaMark said:


> And how many people have to die or be left with lasting damage in order to achieve that supposed "herd immunity"?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Only two more days until Trump gets his ass kicked! Looking forward to it.


----------



## Macfury

May as well lay it out for us Freddie. What's going to happen?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Only two more days until Trump gets his ass kicked! Looking forward to it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> May as well lay it out for us Freddie. What's going to happen?



Uhh... Trump will lose the election, Macfury, largely because of a sizeable swathe of pissed off Republicans who have decided to vote against him. He’s done.


----------



## Macfury

Interesting. Trump has incredibly high approval ratings among Republicans last I checked (86%). There are a few high-profile RINOs who are furious that he's been running ring around them.

Interesting to see the large number of Democrats at Trump rallies.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Uhh... Trump will lose the election, Macfury, largely because of a sizeable swathe of pissed off Republicans who have decided to vote against him. He’s done.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Interesting. Trump has incredibly high approval ratings among Republicans last I checked (86%). There are a few high-profile RINOs who are furious that he's been running ring around them.
> 
> Interesting to see the large number of Democrats at Trump rallies.



Ever heard of the Lincoln Project? And for what it’s worth, Trump is a RINO.


----------



## Macfury

The Lincoln Project is made up of failures fueled by jealousy because they could never achieve Republican policy goals as Trump has. I would suggest that the Republican party is now what Trump says it is--something better than it was, and free of the type of leftist losers who think the Lincoln Project has any merit. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ever heard of the Lincoln Project? And for what it’s worth, Trump is a RINO.


----------



## FeXL

Wanna make a bet, Freddie?

Trump wins, you leave this forum forever. Joey Wetfingers wins, I leave forever.

That's gotta make your mouth water. You in?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Only two more days until Trump gets his ass kicked! Looking forward to it.


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> Wanna make a bet, Freddie?
> 
> Trump wins, you leave this forum forever. Joey Wetfingers wins, I leave forever.
> 
> That's gotta make your mouth water. You in?


That's some real stakes, FeXL. But I know Freddie has the courage of his convictions and he won't turn down an opportunity to banish you forever.


----------



## Macfury

And Freddie has an awesome record of prognostications to ride on:



Freddie_Biff said:


> Insignificant is right. Egg on face is nothing compared to what the Tangerine One is prepared to unload. I would bet all the rice in china on this one. Trump will lose mightily, and then he will remind us how everything is rigged against him and he'll sue the whole political system for trying to make him look bad. Kellyanne Conway will be doing another facepalm.
> 
> Meanwhile, "Bill's wife" will be grinning from ear to ear. Better get used to it. Repeat after me: Madam President...Madam President...Madam President....


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> And Freddie has an awesome record of prognostications to ride on:


Indeed! He still owes me "all the rice in China" from the last political bet we made.

Freddie, like all Progs, is a complete & utter ideologue. As such, he cannot be logic'd. They are immune to facts and empirical evidence and live life entirely on their "feels".

Explaining to him why Trump will win tomorrow would be a waste of breath. I hope he laundered his crying towels.


----------



## FeXL

C'mon, Freddie! My offer is open until midnite local tonight. Here's your chance to get rid of two arch nemeses in one fell swoop: both me and Donny Two-Scoops.

Or is your prediction based on bluster, maybe something you heard in the teacher's Prog lounge today, uttered merely to create noise?


----------



## Macfury

FeXL said:


> C'mon, Freddie! My offer is open until midnite local tonight. Here's your chance to get rid of two arch nemeses in one fell swoop: both me and Donny Two-Scoops.
> 
> Or is your prediction based on bluster, maybe something you heard in the teacher's Prog lounge today, uttered merely to create noise?


He could say he got bored and never checked back, but...



> Last Activity: Today 08:26 PM


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Wanna make a bet, Freddie?
> 
> Trump wins, you leave this forum forever. Joey Wetfingers wins, I leave forever.
> 
> That's gotta make your mouth water. You in?



You’re an idiot, FeXL. Same as always. See you tomorrow.


----------



## FeXL

Didn't think so. FOS, as always.

Maybe I am, Freddie. Maybe not. Either way, I'm not a Prog. Which places me head, shoulders & hairy, unwashed ass over you & your ilk. Have your crying towels handy for the next 4 days, Freddie. Even with PA's crooked & seriously screwed up 3 day post-election ballot extension, it's still not going to be enough.

Revel in Joey Wetfinger's/Heels-up Harris' defeat, Freddie. I will...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re an idiot, FeXL. Same as always. See you tomorrow.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

As Dr. G likes to say, we shall see. But I think there’s a lot more people disappointed with Trump’s performance than you realize. Especially in the last nine months.


----------



## FeXL

Ah, yes. Dr. G. Another ideologue...



Freddie_Biff said:


> As Dr. G likes to say, we shall see.


The only people disappointed with Trump's last 9 months are those who want complete & total gov't control of their lives: mandatory masks, mandatory testing, shutdowns, etc. Not the type of person (Progs) who would vote for Trump in the first place. He's lost nothing there.

On the other hand, there are many from the left who own businesses whose lives have been affected by the shutdowns, whose lives have been negatively affected by the (non?) actions of stupid, long-time Prog governors & mayors and they just want to feed their families without being on the gov't dole.

Throw in days, weeks, months of fiery but "mostly peaceful" protests by the Burning, Looting & Murder club, _et voila_.

Now add Joey Wetfingers painfully obvious mental issues (which, curiously, have not been addressed by the ehMac Prog Gaffe Police) to the mix. And, most recently, his lies about not being associated with Hunter's corruption with the Russkies, Ukes and ChiCom's.

Trump has gained support from both blacks & Latinos.

Toss in the well-documented election fraud, it's nearly a perfect storm, driving voters to Trump in droves.

Yes, there are record numbers of early voters on the left and right now that might make it look like Trump is behind. However, there are tens of millions of voters on the right who are going to vote in person today and that will move the markers to Trump.

Curiously, after news of Hunter's fiasco came to light (despite MSM's almost complete embargo of the topic, including social media's lock down of the _NY Post_ accounts), one of the trending searches in Gaggle was, "How do I change my early vote?". Interestingly enough, some states actually allow that.



Freddie_Biff said:


> But I think there’s a lot more people disappointed with Trump’s performance than you realize. Especially in the last nine months.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

You make some fair points. Biden is not as sharp as he used to be, but then neither is Trump. I’m surprised more Republicans aren’t speaking up about voting for Kanye. Maybe it’s because they don’t REALLY want a black man to win. In any event, today will be interesting. Hope you have your crying towels ready. I have mine—for tears of joy!


----------



## CubaMark

FeXL said:


> Ah, yes. Dr. G. Another ideologue...


HEY!!!!  tptptptp You can talk smack to me, Freddie, etc., all you want, but leave Dr. G. alone. He's one of the few voices of reason left in this forum!



FeXL said:


> Throw in days, weeks, months of fiery but "mostly peaceful" protests by the Burning, Looting & Murder club, _et voila_.


I guess you'd rather women didn't get to vote either, eh?



FeXL said:


> ...most recently, his lies about not being associated with Hunter's corruption with the Russkies, Ukes and ChiCom's.


Man, that's a whole other story right there. Tucker Carlson's FoxNews ("news" being the ironic part of their name) broadcast about the "incriminating documents" relating to Hunter Biden, which "we'll bring you ASAP!" Which were then mysteriously lost by UPS. Then mysteriously found by UPS and delivered. But now that they've been delivered, we're not going to show you what's in them because... 

_He's not running for president. Hunter Biden is a fallen man at this point. I should also say that I knew Hunter Biden fairly well. We lived near each other in Washington for quite some time. I knew his wife, who's an absolutely outstanding person, a good person.

I never thought Hunter Biden was a bad person. I thought he had demons, though in the time I knew him, he kept them mostly under control. At some point, he lost control of those demons, and the world knows that now. He's now humiliated and alone.

It's probably too strong to say we feel sorry for Hunter Biden. But the point is that pounding on a man and piling on him when he's already down is something that we don't want to be involved in._​
Yeah... Tucker Carlson is supposedly taking the high road, instead of publicizing material that would damage the Biden campaign in the days before the US election. I have bridge over San Francisco Bay that I'll sell you, cheap!



FeXL said:


> Toss in the well-documented election fraud, it's nearly a perfect storm, driving voters to Trump in droves.


Sources? Apart from that dead rabbits website you frequent?


----------



## Macfury

I detect the stench of flop sweat from your last post, CM!


----------



## FeXL

Hello, Bigot.

Bite me.

If being a complete & utter ideologue is considered acceptable then yes, Dr.G. is reasonable. But then again, that same definition also applies to you, Freddie and all the other Progs on these boards. QED...



CubaMark said:


> HEY!!!!  tptptptp You can talk smack to me, Freddie, etc., all you want, but leave Dr. G. alone. He's one of the few voices of reason left in this forum!


WTF are you going on about?



CubaMark said:


> I guess you'd rather women didn't get to vote either, eh?


Why, yes. Yes, it is. Take your blinders off. Read. Learn.



CubaMark said:


> Man, that's a whole other story right there.


Do your own research. Get off XiNN, Mother Jones, Assbook, Twatter & Gaggle, among others. There are dozens of instances that have been reported in the last month alone. Disappeared ballots. Ballots found behind and in dumpsters. People selling ballots. Illegal aliens openly encouraged to submit ballots. Ballots being sent to people deceased for years. Offshore military forced to make their own ballot return envelopes out of plain paper & scotch tape. People not getting their ballots. Mail in ballots that will be counted up to 3 days _after_ the election, no postmark required. What could possibly go wrong? 

I could go on at length...



CubaMark said:


> Sources? Apart from that dead rabbits website you frequent?


----------



## FeXL

Shocka...

Dems Caught Cheating In Philly, Handing Out Dem Voting Guides Inside Polling Site, Blocking GOP Poll Watchers, Voting Machines Down



> Within minutes of polls opening in the crucial swing state of Pennsylvania, Democrats were reportedly caught illegally electioneering, handing out Democrat voting guides to voters who were in line to vote and blocking GOP poll watchers in the notoriously corrupt city of Philadelphia.


Caution, Progs: The following links to that damn dead rabbit blog I frequent. Because that site carries more facts & empirical evidence than any 50 MSM sites, I strongly suggest you avoid clicking the link. Your head will explode from that much truth. You've been warned.

2020 Presidential Election Day: News and Notes



> Post will be updated throughout the day.


----------



## eMacMan

So wonder if the insiders figure Biden is toast?

Seems there are truckloads of bricks being dropped off for BLM protestors across the nation.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> You make some fair points. Biden is not as sharp as he used to be, but then neither is Trump. I’m surprised more Republicans aren’t speaking up about voting for Kanye. Maybe it’s because they don’t REALLY want a black man to win. In any event, today will be interesting. Hope you have your crying towels ready. I have mine—for tears of joy!


I am no fan of Trump, nor would I vote for Biden. But I think what has happened under Trump is not because of Trump but something that has been brewing for quite a long time. People are unhappy, people hold values different then the so called "tolerant". These are not simply I like chocolate you like vanilla, some of these are big moral and ethical issues that there is no meeting in the middle. 

The issues in the US are not going away, at least the social ones. If Trump wins they will still be there, if Biden wins they will still be there. The country is divided and it is growing deeper and deeper as political and ideological views are coming into conflict with each other.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I am no fan of Trump, nor would I vote for Biden. But I think what has happened under Trump is not because of Trump but something that has been brewing for quite a long time. People are unhappy, people hold values different then the so called "tolerant". These are not simply I like chocolate you like vanilla, some of these are big moral and ethical issues that there is no meeting in the middle.
> 
> The issues in the US are not going away, at least the social ones. If Trump wins they will still be there, if Biden wins they will still be there. The country is divided and it is growing deeper and deeper as political and ideological views are coming into conflict with each other.



Maybe they should stop calling it the “United” States.


----------



## smashedbanana

Sad news, doesn't look like Kanye is going to pull out a W.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe they should stop calling it the “United” States.


Maybe that is where it will end up, no longer a united country but 2 separate countries. I do not see how reconciliation is possible especially since the so called tolerant are incredibly intolerant to anyone who does not hold their views. Not that the other side is clean of this as well but I have met a whole lot more people willing to let people be so long as they are not forced to accept and believe in things they do not. Anecdotal I know.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Maybe that is where it will end up, no longer a united country but 2 separate countries. I do not see how reconciliation is possible especially since the so called tolerant are incredibly intolerant to anyone who does not hold their views. Not that the other side is clean of this as well but I have met a whole lot more people willing to let people be so long as they are not forced to accept and believe in things they do not. Anecdotal I know.


Every once in awhile I wish for a like or thumbs up button. This post deserves one.

Just for fun try pointing out to a BLM supporter that US cops kill 220 blacks a year and 780 non-blacks, then ask him-her-it, why those 220 lives matter and the other 780 don't. You will probably be shocked at how intolerant they truly are.

If you really want to get them riled mention the Burning, Looting and Murder being carried out under the Soros BLM banner, and ask why those peoples lives don't matter.


----------



## FeXL

Election fraud? What election fraud? I can't find evidence of any election fraud...

They're Stealing the Election



> Last night, between 4am and 4:30am, a thumb drive containing 128,000 votes was delivered to a Michigan ballot counting center.
> 
> All 128,000 votes were for Biden. Not a single one was for Trump.
> 
> At about the same time, something very similar happened in Wisconsin.


More:



> Oh, by the way: No big deal, but Wisconsin's vote just exceeded its number of registered voters.
> 
> That's not suspicious or anything.
> 
> So they're at 104% turnout, like Iraq used to be.
> 
> It's all fine.
> 
> ...
> 
> Update: It turns out that Wisconsin didn't turn out 104% of the vote, but only 93% of the vote, which isn't suspicious either.


Poll Workers Gave Sharpies to Voters In Trump Districts.
Sharpie Marks Do Not Read on Optical Scanners, So Thousands of Trump Votes Were Made Invisible.



> Matt Schlapp says this was done extensively in Trump precincts in Arizona.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Election fraud? What election fraud? I can't find evidence of any election fraud...
> 
> They're Stealing the Election
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> Poll Workers Gave Sharpies to Voters In Trump Districts.
> Sharpie Marks Do Not Read on Optical Scanners, So Thousands of Trump Votes Were Made Invisible.



Wah wah wah. Now there’s this:


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Election fraud? What election fraud? I can't find evidence of any election fraud...
> 
> They're Stealing the Election
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> Poll Workers Gave Sharpies to Voters In Trump Districts.
> Sharpie Marks Do Not Read on Optical Scanners, So Thousands of Trump Votes Were Made Invisible.


Fact check these!


----------



## FeXL

smashedbanana said:


> Fact check these!


Provide evidence that they are inaccurate.


----------



## FeXL

WTF does that mean, Freddie? Do you, or do you not, want an honest election? Would you be as soporific if the shoe were on the other foot?

I'll accept an honest win by Biden. If he wins by cheating, not a fukcing chance.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Wah wah wah.


And the last one I saw put Trump at 277. Until this is all figgered out, I'm not even getting excited.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Now there’s this:


----------



## FeXL

Questions, questions, questions...

Americans suspicious and outraged after key Dem-run cities STOP counting votes on Election Day



> In an unprecedented move, several Democrat-controlled cities in key swing states, abruptly stopped counting votes in the middle of Election Night, causing mass confusion and frustration.
> 
> The decision to stop counting votes on Election Night—which has never happened before in a U.S. presidential race—fueled volcanic outrage among Trump supporters, who claim the counting stopped because President Trump was beating Joe Biden in battleground states Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, and Michigan.


Why? Was this, indeed, because Trump was winning & they had to run out & get a thumb drive with a hunnert thousand Biden votes on it? Did they run over to Kinkos & print up a coupla hunnert thousand ballots for Biden? Some other nefarious purpose?


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Provide evidence that they are inaccurate.


What you posted has been shown to be false by several fact checkers. 

A google search will yield many results.

Consider that you are posting info that came from a tweet as fact and then need evidence to disprove it.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Just for fun try pointing out to a BLM supporter that US cops kill 220 blacks a year and 780 non-blacks, then ask him-her-it, why those 220 lives matter and the other 780 don't. You will probably be shocked at how intolerant they truly are.


Is that an intentional misrepresentation? The issue isn't the number, it's the _disproportionate percentage_.

73% of Americans identify as White.
12.7% identify as Black / African American
87.3% identify as non-black (that includes white, asian, native, etc.). 

What are the actual numbers of annual deaths by police per year? How does that work out per capita for Whites vs Blacks vs others?

And it's *really* frustrating to have to continually try to make people understand... BLM is a movement aimed at making people aware of that disproportionate targetting of Black citizens... it does NOT mean that any other lives don't matter. To take that tack can be nothing other than an intentional attempt to invalidate the BLM message, which is entirely correct. And one would wonder what the motivation is behind that perspective. Is it a lack of understanding of math? Is it (barely) hidden prejudice?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Is that an intentional misrepresentation? The issue isn't the number, it's the _disproportionate percentage_.
> 
> 73% of Americans identify as White.
> 12.7% identify as Black / African American
> 87.3% identify as non-black (that includes white, asian, native, etc.).
> 
> What are the actual numbers of annual deaths by police per year? How does that work out per capita for Whites vs Blacks vs others?
> 
> And it's *really* frustrating to have to continually try to make people understand... BLM is a movement aimed at making people aware of that disproportionate targetting of Black citizens... it does NOT mean that any other lives don't matter. To take that tack can be nothing other than an intentional attempt to invalidate the BLM message, which is entirely correct. And one would wonder what the motivation is behind that perspective. Is it a lack of understanding of math? Is it (barely) hidden prejudice?



And just another example of white privilege. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> Is that an intentional misrepresentation? The issue isn't the number, it's the _disproportionate percentage_.
> 
> 73% of Americans identify as White.
> 12.7% identify as Black / African American
> 87.3% identify as non-black (that includes white, asian, native, etc.).
> 
> What are the actual numbers of annual deaths by police per year? How does that work out per capita for Whites vs Blacks vs others?
> 
> And it's *really* frustrating to have to continually try to make people understand... BLM is a movement aimed at making people aware of that disproportionate targetting of Black citizens... it does NOT mean that any other lives don't matter. To take that tack can be nothing other than an intentional attempt to invalidate the BLM message, which is entirely correct. And one would wonder what the motivation is behind that perspective. Is it a lack of understanding of math? Is it (barely) hidden prejudice?



Nice deflection but the question was quite simple: Why, to the Soros sponsored burn, loot and murder gang, do the 780 non-black, cop murdered civilians not count? 

The issue is not one of proportion but of cops using lethal force when lethal force is not called for. As long as the burn, loot and murder crowd make it a racial issue they are not addressing the root of the problem. Furthermore they are playing into the globalist agenda of dividing Americans, at a time it is critically crucial they stand together against the globalist agenda.


----------



## FeXL

smashedbanana said:


> What you posted has been shown to be false by several fact checkers.
> 
> A google search will yield many results.
> 
> Consider that you are posting info that came from a tweet as fact and then need evidence to disprove it.


Awrite, let's look at this, shall we?

First off, don't use Gaggle. That already skews results.

Second, what you claim to be "fact checked" appears to me to be nothing more than he-said/she said. Marking a ballot with a Sharpie, running it through one of these readers & getting a positive result is a fact check. Anything less is forcing one to accept another's word on an issue that requires just a wee bit more substantiation. Then there's this: AZ Poll Workers Gave Voters a Sharpie to Vote and Then Threw Out Their Ballots, Lawsuit Claims



> Laurie Aguilera voted in person in Maricopa County on Election Day, but poll workers provided her with a Sharpie marker instead of a pen. Aguilera “completed her ballot with the provided sharpie [and] noticed that the ink was bleeding through.” In the lawsuit, she claims that while she had voted in several election cycles before, this was the first time poll workers gave her a Sharpie to fill out her ballot.
> 
> Aguilera “fed her ballot into the ballot box” but “the ballot box failed to properly register her vote causing a poll-worker to cancel her ballot in [her] presence.” She requested a new ballot but the poll workers refused to give her one. The lawsuit claims that the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office ordered them not to do so.
> 
> Aguilera’s lawsuit also claims that “many other voters have experienced similar issues.” Ten anonymous plaintiffs joined Aguilera in the lawsuit.


Third, I find it interesting that when the left uses/reads Twatter, it's gospel, yet when anyone else does, it's questionable.

In addition, I could find no reference anywhere to a "fact check" on the 128,000 Biden vote thumb drive in Wisconsin.


----------



## FeXL

Election fraud? What election fraud? I can't find evidence of any election fraud...

Pardon me if I doubt this was a simple mistake...

Major errors lead to Biden getting extra votes in Michigan, Trump still in play



> Ballot tally errors in two counties put Biden ahead of Trump, but alleged discrepancies have been reported that have altered those results.
> 
> Executive Editor & Publisher of Gongwer Michigan, Zach Gorchow tweeted that he had spoke to Michigan's Antrim county clerk's office who reporterd that they are reviewing vote numbers due to what they call "discrepancies."
> 
> Gorchow mentioned it seems likely the vote totals were transposed. This means Donald Trump and John James (Republican candidate for US Senate) will gain roughly six-thousand votes statewide once this is corrected.


This, too.

“Error” found in Arizona presidential ballot results



> A potentially consequential error has been discovered that may affect the results of the presidential election in Arizona.
> 
> Edison Research, which is used by major news organizations to report voting results had reported that 98 per cent of precincts in Arizona were counted when in fact only 86 per cent were tallied.


USPS Whistleblower in Michigan Claims Higher-Ups Were Engaging in Voter Fraud; UPDATE: Investigation Launched?



> A United States Postal Service worker on Wednesday told Project Veritas that a supervisor named Johnathan Clarke in Traverse City, Michigan – one of the big swing states this election cycle – potentially engaged in voter fraud.
> 
> "We were issued a directive this morning to collect any ballots we find in mailboxes, collection boxes, just outgoing mail in general, separate them at the end of the day so that they could hand stamp them with the previous day's date," the whistleblower stated. "Today is November 4th for clarification."
> 
> Michigan Courts ruled that ballots had to be received by the election clerk before the polls on Election Day, which would mean 8 p.m. eastern time on Tuesday, Nov. 3.


Related:

Project Veritas reports on Michigan election fraud



> The Barlow Branch of the Post Office in Traverse City, Michigan, has a principled employee on the job. On Wednesday morning, that employee reached out to James O’Keefe, of _Project Veritas_, to describe how his supervisor required postal workers to segregate ballots received after the deadline had passed and then stamp them with an earlier date so that they could still be counted.


What have they to hide?

Twitter is on a censoring RAMPAGE after Trump’s tweets about the election this morning

Michigan, Wisconsin Elections Officials Refuse To Explain Sudden Biden Vote Influx



> Elections officials in Michigan and Wisconsin refused to explain Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s sudden and dramatic vote tally increase that occurred in both states Wednesday morning.
> 
> Michigan and Wisconsin state officials warned against misinformation being shared online, but wouldn’t comment on specific vote tranches that appeared to show former Vice President Joe Biden suddenly receiving more votes than President Donald Trump. The two battleground states remained tightly contested as of Wednesday afternoon, according to The New York Times.


Trump improves Wisconsin vote total by 200,000 and loses?



> Despite four years of a relentless pounding by Big Tech and Big Media, President Trump increased his Wisconsin vote total by more than 200,000 votes over 2016, an increase of nearly 15 percent. And still he managed to lose?
> 
> Something is rotten in the State of Wisconsin. Observers should be asking themselves how the least attractive Democratic nominee in anyone's memory — a quintessential old white man, senile to boot — managed to secure nearly 250,000 more votes than Hillary Clinton did in her glass-shattering year of 2016, an 18-percent increase.
> 
> The answer to this question is turnout, by any means necessary. *In Wisconsin, an astounding 88 percent of those registered to vote seem to have voted.* In Ohio, another battleground state, the turnout was a much more typical 68 percent.


Bold mine.

Bull$h!t...

Yes, Democrats Are Trying To Steal The Election In Michigan, Wisconsin, And Pennsylvania



> As reporters and commentators went to bed early Tuesday morning, all three states were too close to call, but President Trump led former Vice President Joe Biden by comfortable margins—far beyond what had been predicted in the polls. None of the networks called these states because enough mail-in ballots remained uncounted that it could swing either way, but Trump’s position looked good.
> 
> *Then, something strange happened in the dead of the night. In both Michigan and Wisconsin, vote dumps early Wednesday morning showed 100 percent of the votes going for Biden and zero percent—that’s zero, so not even one vote—for Trump.*


Bold mine.

No votes for Greens, no independents, no Trump. All for Biden. Statistically, nearly impossible. I call bull$h!t, again.

Oh, an extraneous extra zero, you say. What a remarkable coincidence...

Military Ballots Found in the Trash in Pennsylvania—Most Were Trump Votes



> Mail-in ballots from the military serving overseas were found in the trash in Pennsylvania. The ballots were discovered during an investigation into election issues in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. Most of the discarded ballots had been cast for President Trump.


Caution: Link to dead gopher blog below. Prog heads will explode. You've been warned.

Margin Of Fraud



> More: Michigan @USPS Whistleblower Details Directive From Superiors: Back-Date Late Mail-In-Ballots As Received November 3rd, 2020 So They Are Accepted
> 
> Update: The Office of the Inspector General for the @USPS has just contacted @Project_Veritas in regards to our #MailFraud bombshell in Michigan
> 
> New: U.S. Supreme Court Orders Pennsylvania Democrats to Respond in Ballot Dispute


William Bradley, Born March 1902



> Cast a vote in Michigan.


Analysis: Seven Milwaukee wards report more 2020 presidential votes than registered voters; Biden nets 146K votes in city



> Seven City of Milwaukee voting wards reported more 2020 U.S. Presidential election votes than they had registered voters, according to an analysis of results and Secretary of State files.
> 
> Five of them are in the city’s eleventh aldermanic ward, on the city’s far Southwest Side.
> 
> Vice President Joe Biden carried the five in 2020 with 3,768 votes to President Donald Trump’s 2,883— a margin of 885, or eight times what it was in 2016, when Trump earned 1,904 votes to Hillary Clinton’s 2,012.
> 
> The City of Milwaukee reported record turnout of 84 percent Tuesday; 243,144 of 288,833 registered city voters cast a ballot.
> 
> Biden defeated Trump in Milwaukee 195,034 to 48,110, a margin of 145,916. He won 80 percent of the city’s total vote.
> 
> *Of the city’s 327 voting wards, 90 reported turnout of greater than 90 percent; 201 reported turnout higher than 80 percent.*
> 
> In 2016, city voter turnout was 75 percent.


Bold mine.

Once again, Bull$h!t...

SEVEN Milwaukee Wards Report More Presidential Votes than Registered Voters — State Voter Turnout Is Nearly 90% Which Is Virtually Impossible



> And this is how you steal an election.


Milwaukee Had 17 Precincts With 100+ More Votes Than Voters



> *Greg Borowski reports in today's Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that an analysis of voting records done by the newspaper reveals that seventeen precincts in the city showed at least 100 more votes than the number of registered voters, even counting the already-problematic same-day registrants. Four precincts, or wards, had more than 500 extra votes*:
> 
> Record-keeping surrounding the Nov. 2 presidential election in Milwaukee is so flawed that in 17 wards there were at least 100 more votes recorded than people listed by the city as voting there. In two wards, one on the south side and one on the north side, the gap is more than 500, with fewer than half the votes cast in each ward accounted for in the city's computer system, a Journal Sentinel review has found.


Bold mine.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> Nice deflection but the question was quite simple: Why, to the Soros sponsored burn, loot and murder gang, do the 780 non-black, cop murdered civilians not count?
> 
> The issue is not one of proportion but of cops using lethal force when lethal force is not called for.


It's not a deflection at all. It's a _reason_ for the BLM movement - that authority structures in the USA kill (let's not even get into the statistics on arrests) Black citizens at a far higher proportion of society than they do Whites.

Just because Black Lives Matter, there is NO implication in that slogan which indicates that any other lives do _not_ matter, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I haven't seen any BLM people claiming that non-Black lives don't matter. Where do you get that?


----------



## eMacMan

CubaMark said:


> It's not a deflection at all. It's a _reason_ for the BLM movement - that authority structures in the USA kill (let's not even get into the statistics on arrests) Black citizens at a far higher proportion of society than they do Whites.
> 
> Just because Black Lives Matter, there is NO implication in that slogan which indicates that any other lives do _not_ matter, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
> 
> I haven't seen any BLM people claiming that non-Black lives don't matter. Where do you get that?





They did it themselves. As I said Cops in the US killing a thousand civilians a year indicates either very poor training or deliberate desensitization. A very serious issue that is diminished by focusing only on a perceived racial aspect of the problem. Those other 780 individuals are every bit as dead as the 220 blacks and deserve the same amount of attention and respect.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> They did it themselves. As I said Cops in the US killing a thousand civilians a year indicates either very poor training or deliberate desensitization. A very serious issue that is diminished by focusing only on a perceived racial aspect of the problem. Those other 780 individuals are every bit as dead as the 220 blacks and deserve the same amount of attention and respect.


There's no question that police forces in general have a systemic, structural problem. It's a failure from recruitment through selection, training and internal processes for dealing with corruption. 

That you would describe the disproportionate murder of one group of society as a "perceived racial aspect" is troubling. Why not call it what it is?

Again, nobody is disrespecting or diminishing the other persons killed by police who were not Black. Your belief that the BLM movement advocates such a stance is curious. Again, I ask, where have you seen BLM advocates say that non-Black deaths are not important?


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Awrite, let's look at this, shall we?
> 
> First off, don't use Gaggle. That already skews results.


All right fire up Lycos or whatever you use. I can't help you.



> Second, what you claim to be "fact checked" appears to me to be nothing more than he-said/she said. Marking a ballot with a Sharpie, running it through one of these readers & getting a positive result is a fact check. Anything less is forcing one to accept another's word on an issue that requires just a wee bit more substantiation. Then there's this: AZ Poll Workers Gave Voters a Sharpie to Vote and Then Threw Out Their Ballots, Lawsuit Claims


I used the accurate term Fact Checker as it was professional fact checkers have debuncted the accusations you put forwad. Accusations that started as attention getting tweets.

And it's funny that you hammer people that thought that muslim girl that had her hijjab cut as looking before jumping yet you wholesale believe this highly suspect woman who is super happy to grab attention about her story and immediate lawsuit. 

There is tons of info out there about the testing of sharpies done prior to the election. 
Weird how so few people are saying it is the cause of of vote rejection. With record voting surely if sharpies did that there would be tons of reports of this happening. But not really. I had to look hard to find even coverage of this case.

Wait and see we are going to find out she invalidated her own ballot. Requested a duplicate, marked another area, whatever.



> Third, I find it interesting that when the left uses/reads Twatter, it's gospel, yet when anyone else does, it's questionable.


Weaksauce here. 

You either want a high standard period or your you are okay with the rumor mill. Make up your mind.



> In addition, I could find no reference anywhere to a "fact check" on the 128,000 Biden vote thumb drive in Wisconsin.


Again this was a tweet. A tweet that was later proved false and deleted.


----------



## CubaMark

Man, that Trump guy is all over the place. First he wants to stop counting the ballots. Now he wants the ballots counted. Somebody messing with his dosage of Adderall? 

*Key Arizona county shuts down building to media during vote count as armed Trump supporters gather*
*Poll workers continue counting ballots as media told to leave building amid security concerns*










Maricopa County in Arizona has closed its ballot-counting facility to the media and the public amid safety concerns as supporters of Donald Trump — many of them armed — gathered outside the building, several reporters on the ground have reported.

But poll workers will continue to count ballots and report results amid the developing demonstration outside.

“Staff at the @maricopacounty Elections Department will continue our job, which is to administer elections in the second largest voting jurisdiction in the county,” the Maricopa County Elections Department tweeted in a statement late on Wednesday.

“We will release results again tonight as planned. We thank the [Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office] for doing their job, so we can do ours.”

Arizona GOP Congressman Paul Gosar was pictured among the crowd gathered outside the building.

The protesters in Maricopa County, some of whom were waving Trump flags, have been chanting “Fox News sucks!” and “Count the votes!” for hours.
(...)
The demonstration outside the Maricopa County Elections Office follows a salvo of tweets on Wednesday from Mr Trump peddling conspiracy theories and misinformation about ballot-counting as it appeared his Democratic opponent, Mr Biden, was primed to pull away in the Electoral College.

(The Independent UK)​


----------



## smashedbanana

> Election fraud? What election fraud? I can't find evidence of any election fraud...


Good god man. Talk about jumping in wholesale.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole with you but I can see the first one already is the accusation that started as a Facebook meme. A meme!! A meme that Fact checkers had to debunk. And they did.

I'm sure they love their jobs this week.

But here we go second life in the Fexl read, approve because it confirms his predispositions, share are fact on ehmac cycle. 

Next step is to demand empirical level evidence from anyone who calls it false.


----------



## Macfury

You actually count on Facebook "experts" to approve your news for you? Good grief!


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> You actually count on Facebook "experts" to approve your news for you? Good grief!


No that's not what I said at all. Come on.

I read everything. I was well aware of what Fexl posted and why I answered.

Fact checkers have a role to play in swatting out nonsense and falsehoods being disseminated over social media. Common sense has a role too but ya, that is in short supply nowadays.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Fact checkers have a role to play in swatting out nonsense and falsehoods being disseminated over social media. .


Do you really want a third party removing material from the Internet that they think is not good for you to read?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Do you really want a third party removing material from the Internet that they think is not good for you to read?


Who said anything about removal?

Have you seen how fact checking works? They just flag the post, you can still click through and read it. And/or believe it I guess in terms of this thread. 


...followed by the story of the fake post being fact checked as wrong becoming news in itself.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Who said anything about removal?
> 
> Have you seen how fact checking works? They just flag the post, you can still click through and read it. And/or believe it I guess in terms of this thread.
> 
> 
> ...followed by the story of the fake post being fact checked as wrong becoming news in itself.


In Zücker Land if it disagrees with the official narrative, it is often removed without explanation and the poster at least temporarily shut out. Ditto Twitter.

Given the amount of officially approved disinformation being disseminated by the MS media, that sort of censorship is absolutely obscene.

The only people who I need protection from are those who claim to be protecting me!


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> In Bezoz Land if it disagrees with the official narrative, it is often removed without explanation and the poster at least temporarily shut out. Ditto Twitter.
> 
> Given the amount of officially approved disinformation being disseminated by the MS media, that sort of censorship is absolutely obscene.
> 
> The only people who I need protection from are those who claim to be protecting me!


Exactly. I have watched accounts terminated simply for crunching numbers in a way that conflicts with the social media company's corporate messaging.

If Twitter has operated in 1880s France, it would have made sure to declare the posts of Louis Pasteur "false" and ultimately banned his account for violating terms of service.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It seems Biden is now ahead in Arizona, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Georgia. Buh-bye, Trump. Should have taken FeXL up on that bet. But then it would be so quiet around here.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> In Bezoz Land if it disagrees with the official narrative, it is often removed without explanation and the poster at least temporarily shut out. Ditto Twitter.


Not sure why you are talking about Jeff Bezos. Do you think the Washington post controls everything somehow?

Again check out how fact checking works. Applies to your follow statements too.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Again check out how fact checking works.


I have. It applies only to information that strays outside the corporate narrative,


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Not sure why you are talking about Jeff Bezos. Do you think the Washington post controls everything somehow?
> 
> Again check out how fact checking works. Applies to your follow statements too.



Thanks was thinking about amazon and FB at the same time. 


Post has been edited to correctly brand the appropriate scumball.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Again check out how fact checking works. Applies to your follow statements too.





Macfury said:


> I have. It applies only to information that strays outside the corporate narrative,



MF nailed it. 

MS media can promote wearing masks and even claim it is safe with nary a word spoken to correct the narrative. They can say surgeons wear masks with no ill effects, but fail to mention that operating rooms have an Oxygen enriched atmosphere to offset hypoxia. Nary a fact checking correction to be found.

Let someone mention the numerous studies that show masks do nothing to prevent the spread of viruses, or the OSHA studies showing they are dangerous to our health, or that paper masks are sterilized with a known carcinogen Ethylene Oxide and may contain PTFE, you can safely bet your sanity that post will be axed.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Exactly. I have watched accounts terminated simply for crunching numbers in a way that conflicts with the social media company's corporate messaging.


I've seen posts removed for offensive content. Usually there is a marker left there.

Please explain how you are accounting for users deleting their own posts and/or accounts.



> If Twitter has operated in 1880s France, it would have made sure to declare the posts of Louis Pasteur "false" and ultimately banned his account for violating terms of service.


Too much to unpack here. Twitter in the 1880s would have been disruptive in every way shape and form.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I've seen posts removed for offensive content. Usually there is a marker left there.
> 
> Please explain how you are accounting for users deleting their own posts and/or accounts.


The marker says that the social network platform deleted their account.



smashedbanana said:


> Twitter in the 1880s would have been disruptive in every way shape and form.


Yes. And Twitter would have deleted Pasteur's posts because they did not match their corporate orthodoxy.

Today, I saw a GoFundMe campaign deleted by the platform. The money was being raised to purchase access to several databases so a data specialist could match voter records against death rolls. The platform cited that the fundraiser: "attempts to spread misleading information about the election and has been removed from the platform."


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Today, I saw a GoFundMe campaign deleted by the platform. The money was being raised to purchase access to several databases so a data specialist could match voter records against death rolls. The platform cited that the fundraiser: "attempts to spread misleading information about the election and has been removed from the platform."


How was the GoFundMe represented on FB? 

If it was stated as:

_There are concerns that during the 2020 Presidential Election, votes may have been cast using the names of persons who are deceased. This GoFundMe is to raise funds to hire access to several databases so a data specialist can match voter records against death rolls, and ascertain the validity of that claim._​
That seems reasonable, and should have been allowed to remain online to separate folks from their pension cheques.

If it was stated as:

_Tham damn *spit* PROG BASTARDS DUN STOLE THE ULEXION from Dear God Almight-Appointed President Donald J. (the "J" doesn't stand for "Jesus" but it might as well) Trump!!!!!!!! We need your money NOW to INVESTIGATE the CRIMINAL THEFT by the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY of GOD FEARING AMERIKANS FREEDOM AND LIBERTY!!!!!_​
Well, you can perhaps see why it might have been removed :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Biden and Harris for the win!!


----------



## eMacMan

So we now have a president who is likely to die in the next few months, and a VP who was booted early from the presidential race. Not even the democrypts can stomach Cabala


----------



## FeXL

Nope.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Biden and Harris for the win!!


----------



## CubaMark

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3ZEFM7_Itk[/ame]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Nope.



Yup. And you would have lost that bet, too, Mr-who-thinks-he-knows-so-much.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3ZEFM7_Itk[/ame]



Beahahahahahaha! Ever seen baby trump on Kimmel? 

 https://youtu.be/iC1-FOwDtV0


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> The marker says that the social network platform deleted their account.


Point me to a deletion that was for sharing an opposing viewpoint as you stated. I'll take the wager that any deletion was for terms of service violation. Hate speech, spamming, etc. etc.




> Yes. And Twitter would have deleted Pasteur's posts because they did not match their corporate orthodoxy.


And would happen if Pasteur lived today? How many conspiracy nuts would have alternate theories and distrust of the science. 



> Today, I saw a GoFundMe campaign deleted by the platform. The money was being raised to purchase access to several databases so a data specialist could match voter records against death rolls. The platform cited that the fundraiser: "attempts to spread misleading information about the election and has been removed from the platform."


That reasoning if true seems problematic.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So Joe Biden will become America’s 46th president. Unless you’re using MacFury math, of course, which would only make him 45th.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I'm not a very smart man but I do know this: Until all the legal votes have been counted, until all the legal issues have been addressed (challenges, recounts, possible re-elections, etc.), this election has not yet been decided. Just because you heard it on XiNN or some other frothing-at-the-mouth commie "news" source does not make it so.

As to who won or lost the bet, you're the one that chickened out. I'd call that something short of a victory...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. And you would have lost that bet, too, Mr-who-thinks-he-knows-so-much.


----------



## macintosh doctor

the other day i flipped my coin 145000 times and by miracle of God and science it came up heads each time lol 

At the end of the day, Biden and his crocked cronies have to still face the courts, recounts and submissions of late votes.. 

there is no way possible this election was won fairly.. 
If i recall the last time a democRAT won by mails his name was Kennedy and he used dead people to vote for him . lol


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> the other day i flipped my coin 145000 times and by miracle of God and science it came up heads each time lol
> 
> At the end of the day, Biden and his crocked cronies have to still face the courts, recounts and submissions of late votes..
> 
> there is no way possible this election was won fairly..
> If i recall the last time a democRAT won by mails his name was Kennedy and he used dead people to vote for him . lol



*crooked


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, I'm not a very smart man but I do know this: Until all the legal votes have been counted, until all the legal issues have been addressed (challenges, recounts, possible re-elections, etc.), this election has not yet been decided. Just because you heard it on XiNN or some other frothing-at-the-mouth commie "news" source does not make it so.
> 
> As to who won or lost the bet, you're the one that chickened out. I'd call that something short of a victory...



It’s nice to see you humbled. If I’d have taken you up on that bet, we wouldn’t have to listen to open your pie hole any more around here.


----------



## eMacMan

macintosh doctor said:


> the other day i flipped my coin 145000 times and by miracle of God and science it came up heads each time lol
> 
> At the end of the day, Biden and his crocked cronies have to still face the courts, recounts and submissions of late votes..
> 
> there is no way possible this election was won fairly..
> If i recall the last time a democRAT won by mails his name was Kennedy and he used dead people to vote for him . lol


I think one of Georgia's cemeteries actually had 100% of its residents mail in ballots. Of course this would not even be news in Chicago.

'Tis obvious with the 1,000,000 magically appearing overnight PA ballots, that the deep state was leaving nothing to chance this time around. It was crucial that the most corrupt candidate win and win he did.

Americans can now look forward to all small businesses being shut down in time to destroy their Christmas business rush. With no hope of finding jobs most Americans will have to surrender all of their private property, in exchange for debt forgiveness and a promised monthly dole. They will get that dole but only if they were their masks as a symbol of subservience. Ask the Sioux or Navajo nations how long they can count on that dole continuing. They will then have to pay for everything on a subscription serve basis. And Bill Gates will get his 'Mark of the Beaste' nano-chip tattoos to go along with his mandatory vaccination program. Don't like it? There is a concentration camp being built near you for any who dare protest.

The really bad news is the TrueDope has also signed off on this Covid 1984 nightmare agenda. The camp near Portage LaPrairie has already been built and awaits its first dissenting resident.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I think one of Georgia's cemeteries actually had 100% of its residents mail in ballots. Of course this would not even be news in Chicago.
> 
> 'Tis obvious with the 1,000,000 magically appearing overnight PA ballots, that the deep state was leaving nothing to chance this time around. It was crucial that the most corrupt candidate win and win he did.
> 
> Americans can now look forward to all small businesses being shut down in time to destroy their Christmas business rush. With no hope of finding jobs most Americans will have to surrender all of their private property, in exchange for debt forgiveness and a promised monthly dole. They will get that dole but only if they were their masks as a symbol of subservience. Ask the Sioux or Navajo nations how long they can count on that dole continuing. They will then have to pay for everything on a subscription serve basis. And Bill Gates will get his 'Mark of the Beaste' nano-chip tattoos to go along with his mandatory vaccination program. Don't like it? There is a concentration camp being built near you for any who dare protest.
> 
> The really bad news is the TrueDope has also signed off on this Covid 1984 nightmare agenda. The camp near Portage LaPrairie has already been built and awaits its first dissenting resident.



Jay-zuz on a cracker. Conspiracy theory much? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Jay-zuz on a cracker. Conspiracy theory much?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



And last year had I told you that you would have to wear a face diaper, which is sterilized with Ethylene Oxide, a known carcinogen, to go to the grocery store, you would have labeled that as a crackpot conspiracy theory as well!

Yet today you do it and tomorrow back in the classroom you will insist that kids in your classroom wear the same. Even though every study ever done has concluded those masks do nothing to prevent the spread of viruses. Even though the more in depth OSHA studies concluded those masks are actually a hazard to your health.

Don't worry Freddie, the TrueDoper has you covered. As long as you hide behind that mask and surrender the deed to your home and car, you can avoid the concentration camps. You will even get the dole, which you will probably need as Kenney is cutting your wages by another 40%. He'll even keep the Cannabis and alchol in good supply, just to make sure you remain incapable of critical thought.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, I repeat: No one has won the election yet.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s nice to see you humbled. If I’d have taken you up on that bet, we wouldn’t have to listen to open your pie hole any more around here.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, I repeat: No one has won the election yet.



You keep telling yourself that, mate. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue celebrating. You and your buddy Donald can live in denial for as long as you want.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> And last year had I told you that you would have to wear a face diaper, which is sterilized with Ethylene Oxide, a known carcinogen, to go to the grocery store, you would have labeled that as a crackpot conspiracy theory as well!
> 
> Yet today you do it and tomorrow back in the classroom you will insist that kids in your classroom wear the same.


Actually - most of us are using home-made cloth masks, cleaned daily by hand-washing. No Ethylene Oxide involved here!



eMacMan said:


> Even though every study ever done has concluded those masks do nothing to prevent the spread of viruses.


Where do you get this stuff? Visiting FeXL's dead opossums website? 

And "every study ever done has concluded"... by what, Trump himself in his imagination?

There are oodles of tests out there, if you can get off the OneAmerica News site....

The face mask test: which are the best at limiting the spread of Covid?

And there's lots of debunking going on that you might want to review:

False: A study from the CDC and the WHO “proves face masks do not prevent the spread of a virus.”

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0wu9TOQQaU[/ame]



eMacMan said:


> Even though the more in depth OSHA studies concluded those masks are actually a hazard to your health.


Link please?

_No, don't bother_. All you need to do is a quick search to discover that that one has been debunked.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm trying to figure out of a Trump staffer is *really that stupid*, or if this was a play to generate media buzz... get us all talking about it (which we are)? But... the latter makes no sense, since we're not talking about the content of the news conference, we're talking about the utter stupidity on display here...










*Related:* Rudy Giuliani’s bizarre reaction to finding out Trump LOST election as he mocks ‘all the networks’ over result


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> I'm trying to figure out of a Trump staffer is *really that stupid*, or if this was a play to generate media buzz... get us all talking about it (which we are)? But... the latter makes no sense, since we're not talking about the content of the news conference, we're talking about the utter stupidity on display here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:* Rudy Giuliani’s bizarre reaction to finding out Trump LOST election as he mocks ‘all the networks’ over result



A dildo shop on one side and a crematorium on the other, which is appropriate because Trump got BURNED this election.


----------



## eMacMan

The point is that a year ago it would have been called a crackpot conspiracy to say you would now be forced to wear face diapers. Good deflection but no Clinton cigar.

Of course face masks can harm your health. You are concentrating phlegm, bacteria, mold spores, moisture and heat, immediately in front of your nose for extended periods of time. What could possibly go wrong here??? BTW why is it that the number of 'cases' started rising so dramatically shortly after they mandated masking in most of Canada's major cities?

As to debunking hypoxia, tell that to the parents in China and Germany whose kids were forced to wear masks during PE and died as a result. I know of at least one kid in Alberta who passed out during PE for the same reason. Of course if you think diverting the exhaust pipe from your auto into the passenger cab is a great idea, you should have no problem re-breathing your own exhaust gasses. After all what can possibly go wrong breathing in air with CO2 concentrations of 5% instead of less than .05%??


----------



## CubaMark

I guess there's really no point in debating this... you obviously have the market cornered on the Settled Science®!

On another note...

Again I have to ask: Are the Trump people really that dumb? :lmao:


----------



## FeXL

Leave it to a Prog to have premature joculation...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You keep telling yourself that, mate. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue celebrating. You and your buddy Donald can live in denial for as long as you want.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Leave it to a Prog to have premature joculation...



You sure seem to be short on witty retorts lately. This election loss must really be getting to you.


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, in no particular order, list the top 3 highlights of the Al Gore administration.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Leave it to a Prog to have premature joculation...


Ya Freddie!

Right now the results could do either way clearly. 

You know the results are suspect.
But a 56 electoral vote shift to Trump at this point would be totally fine!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Ya Freddie!
> 
> Right now the results could do either way clearly.
> 
> You know the results are suspect.
> But a 56 electoral vote shift to Trump at this point would be totally fine!



And very likely too. All Trump has to do is prove voter fraud. Go Donald!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This. The ending of 12 Angry Men (spoilers) where Juror No. 3 (Lee J Cobb) refuses to accept the obvious truth that the other jurors have realized. This is Trump right now. A classic!


https://youtu.be/0jxVnlRdelU


----------



## FeXL

Freddie, you haven't answered my question.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Freddie, in no particular order, list the top 3 highlights of the Al Gore administration.


Here you go!

1. Had a legit cause to contest election results (won popular vote, Florida chad system).
2. Legally contested the election and allowed that process to proceed
3. Recognized the greater good to not proceeding further
4. Conceded !

For bonus points:

Treated his opponent with respect!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Freddie, you haven't answered my question.



Your question is irrelevant. Gore ran in 2000.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> Of course face masks can harm your health. You are concentrating phlegm, bacteria, mold spores, moisture and heat, immediately in front of your nose for extended periods of time. What could possibly go wrong here???


Disclaimer, I'm not a medical professional, but that's not stopping anyone else.

I really wish they would move doctors and nurses to the front of the obituaries. I'd expect plenty dead, daily, but they always go unnoticed. They wear masks far more frequently, and for far longer durations than the extended periods of time we're asked to do so, after all. And have done so for ages. That must be why they're paid the big bucks; because they're most certainly going to die from mask poisoning.



eMacMan said:


> BTW why is it that the number of 'cases' started rising so dramatically shortly after they mandated masking in most of Canada's major cities?


The rise in cases also coincided with major cities moving to Stage 3, and schools re-opening. Based on the COVID reports, at least through September and October, it looked like kids, and the age brackets their parents would fit in, saw the most infections, at least in these parts. Almost like kids were contracting it at school and bringing it home. But who can be sure?

Anecdotally, we live near a high school. It's not usual to see kids clustered together walking home, maskless, as though nothing is different. Kids will be kids, after all.


----------



## FeXL

I'm sorry. No, really. I apologize.

For a minute there I thought we were in the American Political Thread...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your question is irrelevant. Gore ran in 2000.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm sorry. No, really. I apologize.
> 
> For a minute there I thought we were in the American Political Thread...



FeXL, please list three legitimate reasons that Trump has for contesting the election and not conceding after losing. Be specific.


----------



## Macfury

Scott Adams' Twitter post is salient:



> Do you hear that dog that isn't barking? It's the top statistical experts on the left who are looking at election rigging allegations and coming to a slow boil in their own flop sweat.


----------



## WCraig

evidence noun

ev·​i·​dence | \ ˈe-və-dən(t)s , -və-ˌden(t)s \

Definition of evidence (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : an outward sign : INDICATION
b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY
specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness
especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against one's accomplices
in evidence
1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS
trim lawns … are everywhere in evidence
— Amer. Guide Series: N.C.
2 : as evidence

evidence verb
evidenced; evidencing
Definition of evidence (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
: to offer evidence of : PROVE, EVINCE


----------



## FeXL

No problem. Right after you answer _my_ question.



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL, please list three legitimate reasons that Trump has for contesting the election and not conceding after losing. Be specific.


----------



## Macfury

WCraig said:


> evidence noun
> 
> ev·​i·​dence | \ ˈe-və-dən(t)s , -və-ˌden(t)s \
> 
> Definition of evidence (Entry 1 of 2)
> 1a : an outward sign : INDICATION
> b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY
> specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
> 2 : one who bears witness
> especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against one's accomplices
> in evidence
> 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS
> trim lawns … are everywhere in evidence
> — Amer. Guide Series: N.C.
> 2 : as evidence
> 
> evidence verb
> evidenced; evidencing
> Definition of evidence (Entry 2 of 2)
> transitive verb
> : to offer evidence of : PROVE, EVINCE


You won't find it reported on CNN!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> No problem. Right after you answer _my_ question.



There was no Gore administration because he wasn’t elected President. Duh. Your turn. And please be specific.


----------



## WCraig

Let me recap my understanding of the position of Trumpists...

The Democrats are buffoons and utterly clueless. Nonetheless, they have organized a titanic fraud in the 2020 election. Tens or hundreds of thousands of votes were changed or manufactured in multiple states.

After all, Trump insisted that he won "big" while the reported results are big in the other direction. Thus the scale of the fraud must be gargantuan.

Despite this flood of fraud, sharp-eyed Republicans were unable to capture any evidence. Scores of fraudsters must have been involved but the wily Republicans were unable to get a single plant in place to nail these evil doers. Weird.

Now on to the truly weird. These fraudsters pulled the crime of the century in defeating Trump...but didn't bother to rig the down-ballot elections. Only achieved a slim majority in the house and appears the Senate will be Republican-controlled. Seems to defy all logic.

Have I got that right?

Craig


----------



## CubaMark

WCraig: Nicely summed up.


----------



## Macfury

WCraig said:


> Let me recap my understanding of the position of Trumpists...
> 
> The Democrats are buffoons and utterly clueless. Nonetheless, they have organized a titanic fraud in the 2020 election. Tens or hundreds of thousands of votes were changed or manufactured in multiple states.
> 
> After all, Trump insisted that he won "big" while the reported results are big in the other direction. Thus the scale of the fraud must be gargantuan.
> 
> Despite this flood of fraud, sharp-eyed Republicans were unable to capture any evidence. Scores of fraudsters must have been involved but the wily Republicans were unable to get a single plant in place to nail these evil doers. Weird.
> 
> Now on to the truly weird. These fraudsters pulled the crime of the century in defeating Trump...but didn't bother to rig the down-ballot elections. Only achieved a slim majority in the house and appears the Senate will be Republican-controlled. Seems to defy all logic.
> 
> Have I got that right?
> 
> Craig


No, you haven't got any of it it right!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, you haven't got any of it it right!



Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. Yes, WCraig, you got it right.


----------



## WCraig

> A Pennsylvania postal worker whose claims have been cited by top Republicans as potential evidence of widespread voting irregularities admitted to U.S. Postal Service investigators that he fabricated the allegations, according to three officials briefed on the investigation and a statement from a House congressional committee.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html

Turns out, the actual fraud is someone fabricating claims of voting irregularities!

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
> 
> Turns out, the actual fraud is someone fabricating claims of voting irregularities!
> 
> Craig



Easy now. MacFury and FeXL are going to start foaming at the mouth of you keep revealing the truth like that.


----------



## Macfury

WCraig said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
> 
> Turns out, the actual fraud is someone fabricating claims of voting irregularities!
> 
> Craig


Guess you haven't seen the video where the same USPS worker was wearing a wire during four hours of intimidation by the feds. He's doubling down on his testimony.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Guess you haven't seen the video where the same USPS worker was wearing a wire during four hours of intimidation by the feds. He's doubling down on his testimony.


You mean this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibU5KVFCg4Y&feature=youtu.be

That's uploaded by Project Veritas. They're shady enough I'd prefer to have that corroborated by other sources before jumping to any conclusions.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> You mean this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibU5KVFCg4Y&feature=youtu.be
> 
> That's uploaded by Project Veritas. They're shady enough I'd prefer to have that corroborated by other sources before jumping to any conclusions.


Not that one, this one:

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Not that one, this one:
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248


Thank you. James O'Keefe however is the founder of Project Veritas, so essentially the same source. I'll be interested how this pans out.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Thank you. James O'Keefe however is the founder of Project Veritas, so essentially the same source. I'll be interested how this pans out.


You may not like O'Keefe, but unless you want to argue that the wire recording — featuring a federal agent identified by name — is phony... 

I was just following a Twitter thread by a guy who has read the entire Dominion Voting Machine manual. Have a read if this stuff interests you:

https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ



> "There is a setting to throw out votes for specific individual contests if you vote for a whole party."


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> You may not like O'Keefe, but unless you want to argue that the wire recording — featuring a federal agent identified by name — is phony...
> 
> I was just following a Twitter thread by a guy who has read the entire Dominion Voting Machine manual. Have a read if this stuff interests you:
> 
> https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ


Please check who that guy is!!

He's one of the 8Kun guys!! 

Maybe what he says is true or maybe it's completely fabricated. They don't have a creditable history.......


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Please check who that guy is!!
> 
> He's one of the 8Kun guys!!
> 
> Maybe what he says is true or maybe it's completely fabricated. They don't have a creditable history.......


I know it's one of the 8kun guys! But I have heard of exactly the same flaws in Dominion voting machines a year or so ago. Sadly, the US has been using these tactics to skew the elections in foreign countries for years.

This old BBC article on how to spot vote rigging in foreign countries looks particularly prescient.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37243190


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> You may not like O'Keefe, but unless you want to argue that the wire recording — featuring a federal agent identified by name — is phony...


I'm indifferent towards him, and suspicious of things presented by Veritas. Which is why I'd prefer to wait until more reputable sources (or at least some of differing reputation) get a kick at the can.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I'm indifferent towards him, and suspicious of things presented by Veritas. Which is why I'd prefer to wait until more reputable sources (or at least some of differing reputation) get a kick at the can.


I think you might understand that some of us simply don't see any mainstream news source as "reputable" at this point. They will report accurately when the story doesn't conflict with their political agenda. 

Healthy suspicion of news sources, including Project Veritas, is your best approach and I respect that.


----------



## Macfury

Looking at this thread I'm taken with the absurdity of people like CM and Freddie siding with the likes of CIA hacks like John Brennan and Gina Haspel to support the only candidate for president who thinks the invasion of Iraq was a great idea.

The Babylon Bee gets it right:

*Man Who Agrees With The Media, Universities, Corporations, And Hollywood Thinks He's Part Of The Resistance
*
https://babylonbee.com/news/counter...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Healthy suspicion of news sources, including Project Veritas, is your best approach and I respect that.


I appreciate that, and your position as well.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Looking at this thread I'm taken with the absurdity of people like CM and Freddie siding with the likes of CIA hacks like John Brennan and Gina Haspel to support the only candidate for president who thinks the invasion of Iraq was a great idea.
> 
> The Babylon Bee gets it right:
> 
> *Man Who Agrees With The Media, Universities, Corporations, And Hollywood Thinks He's Part Of The Resistance
> *
> https://babylonbee.com/news/counter...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer



“The Babylon Bee is Your Trusted Source For Christian News Satire.”


----------



## Macfury

Yes. You're the subject of satire.



Freddie_Biff said:


> “The Babylon Bee is Your Trusted Source For Christian News Satire.”


----------



## Macfury

The Bee keeps giving:



> Girlfriend Keeps Referring To Herself As 'Wife-Elect' Despite No Official Word From Boyfriend


https://babylonbee.com/news/girlfri...elect-despite-no-official-word-from-boyfriend


----------



## WCraig

Oh look at that. Arizona called in Biden's favour:

https://www.azcentral.com/elections/results/2020-11-03/state/arizona/

99% of the vote counted and Biden has a lead of 13,000+. Only two Democratic presidential nominees in the past 72 years have won Arizona in the general election – Bill Clinton in 1996 and Harry Truman in 1948.

Trump lost. Long ago. His petulance is a national embarrassment. Senior Republicans are a disgrace to their country for not pushing him to concede.

Craig


----------



## WCraig

Has any of Trumps legal challenges had any success? Last I heard, a dozen suits had been thrown out of court because they lacked any shred of creditable evidence. The Department of Homeland Security came out with a strong statement that the 2020 Elections were free and fair.

If Trump is going to persist in his delusions, the 25th Amendment is appropriate.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> Oh look at that. Arizona called in Biden's favour:
> 
> https://www.azcentral.com/elections/results/2020-11-03/state/arizona/
> 
> 99% of the vote counted and Biden has a lead of 13,000+. Only two Democratic presidential nominees in the past 72 years have won Arizona in the general election – Bill Clinton in 1996 and Harry Truman in 1948.
> 
> Trump lost. Long ago. His petulance is a national embarrassment. Senior Republicans are a disgrace to their country for not pushing him to concede.
> 
> Craig



Trump is a big baby and his followers are enablers. It’s time to grow up and face reality. He won’t though, because he’s incapable of it. I wonder what it will take for his followers to realize their Messiah is a dud?


----------



## eMacMan

Hmmm, maybe the fix was in and Mary B. knew it:

Interesting read regardless of your political views.
https://driving.ca/chevrolet/silver...th-the-politics-of-building-pickups-in-oshawa


> So, was Barra prescient in her reading of the political tea leaves? Did GM Canada’s recent rebirth really hinge on The Donald’s election collapse? I don’t know. But would Barra have risked the wrath of Trump if the polls had given him a Biden-like lead going into Nov. 3 election? Would anyone willingly walk into that kind of abuse? Those thinking it wasn’t a significant part of GM’s calculations before the deal was signed are fooling themselves — Jerry Dias’ genius notwithstanding, of course.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

^^^^ Awesome! 

My it sure is quiet around here as Trump is getting his ass kicked but still won’t concede. 19 out of 20 of his frivolous lawsuits have been thrown out. GA has been called for Biden and NC has been called for Trump, giving Biden 306 electoral college votes to Trump’s 232—a reversal of the numbers from 2016, which Trump called a landslide victory in the electoral college. By any measure, it’s over. Trump lost. Bigly. 

I wonder how our alt-right friends around here are going to try to spin this. It sure has been quiet around here lately.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> I think one of Georgia's cemeteries actually had 100% of its residents mail in ballots. Of course this would not even be news in Chicago.
> 
> 'Tis obvious with the 1,000,000 magically appearing overnight PA ballots, that the deep state was leaving nothing to chance this time around. It was crucial that the most corrupt candidate win and win he did.


Funny how, when folks take their valuable time to investigate these crackpot conspiracies, they all turn out to be baseless.... The "dead voters" thing is particularly dumb:

*US Election 2020: The 'dead voters' in Michigan who are still alive* (BBC)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It’s amazing that some people still can’t accept that Trump was a ****ty president and maybe that’s why he didn’t win. Melania’s husband will not serve a second term.


----------



## Macfury

The BBC? That site rules!


----------



## eMacMan

Seems to me that the BBC was the gang which blamed chemical weapons attacks carried out by ISIS and other US proxy fighters, on the Syrian Army. Pedaled the incubator baby myth, the WMDs lie, and the Yellow Cake fraud. Not to mention the unbelievable official narrative of the collapse of WTC 7. Compounded by the fact that WTC 7 did not collapse until 20 minutes after the BBC had reported it. As a matter of fact the gal was reporting it's collapse with the building standing in the background on the monitor behind her. 

As far as I am concerned they rate mighty low on the credibility scale. 

Taking the BBC at its word leaves one standing at the edge of a 1000 foot chasm, on a lip of soil which has been completely undercut by erosion. You can go there if you like but it is a very dumb idea.

Anyways since relying on the BBC as a fact checker sets the bar about 10 feet below the surface of the mud puddle I offer a much more reliable source confirming dead voters voting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Seems to me that the BBC was the gang which blamed chemical weapons attacks carried out by ISIS and other US proxy fighters, on the Syrian Army. Pedaled the incubator baby myth, the WMDs lie, and the Yellow Cake fraud. Not to mention the unbelievable official narrative of the collapse of WTC 7. Compounded by the fact that WTC 7 did not collapse until 20 minutes after the BBC had reported it. As a matter of fact the gal was reporting it's collapse with the building standing in the background on the monitor behind her.
> 
> As far as I am concerned they rate mighty low on the credibility scale.
> 
> Taking the BBC at its word leaves one standing at the edge of a 1000 foot chasm, on a lip of soil which has been completely undercut by erosion. You can go there if you like but it is a very dumb idea.
> 
> Anyways since relying on the BBC as a fact checker sets the bar about 10 feet below the surface of the mud puddle I offer a much more reliable source confirming dead voters voting.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY


Freddie screamed in 2016 that the Russians had elected Trump... but now feels that Trump has made the world safe for free and fair elections.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie screamed in 2016 that the Russians had elected Trump... but now feels that Trump has made the world safe for free and fair elections.



What I now feel? I feel you’re in a deep state of denial. Get used to saying it: President-elect Biden, Vice President-elect Harris. Former President Trump, Former Vice-President Pence.


----------



## FeXL

_"Dewey Beats Truman"_

_"Gore Beats Bush"_



Freddie_Biff said:


> President-elect Biden, Vice President-elect Harris. Former President Trump, Former Vice-President Pence.


----------



## WCraig

FeXL said:


> _"Gore Beats Bush"_


Even the guy who won for Bush says it is different:



> *Ted Olson, the Republican lawyer who argued on behalf of George W. Bush in the 2000 case Bush v. Gore, spoke at an event for the Federalist Society on Thursday.
> Olson said that he believes the 2020 election is "over" and that America has "a new president," referring to Joe Biden.*


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...he-election-is-over-and-biden-won/ar-BB1aZ1Nf

Craig


----------



## Macfury

WCraig said:


> Even the guy who won for Bush says it is different:
> 
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...he-election-is-over-and-biden-won/ar-BB1aZ1Nf
> 
> Craig


Bush was a deep stater with his daddy's CIA connections. You won't expect to see any sort of reciprocity there.


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> Bush was a deep stater with his daddy's CIA connections. You won't expect to see any sort of reciprocity there.


I guess everything just ties together when you believe tinfoil crap like that.


It is now November 15. If Trump had _any_ creditable evidence to back up any of wild-ass claims, why hasn't it been made public?? Short answer is that he is a whiny-ass toddler screaming "not fair". No more, no less.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> Even the guy who won for Bush says it is different:
> 
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...he-election-is-over-and-biden-won/ar-BB1aZ1Nf
> 
> Craig



306 to 232. That’s a pretty decisive victory.


----------



## Macfury

WCraig said:


> I guess everything just ties together when you believe tinfoil crap like that.


Is that so? If you think most of the government lifers who supported Bush support Trump, you're really under-informed. 




WCraig said:


> It is now November 15. If Trump had _any_ creditable evidence to back up any of wild-ass claims, why hasn't it been made public?? Short answer is that he is a whiny-ass toddler screaming "not fair". No more, no less.


Let's just give Trump at least as much time as Bush gave Gore. Besides that senile old fool Biden thinks he's running the "Office of the President Elect" right now. He won't be able to tell the difference.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The Bush/Gore difference was a little more than 500 votes in one state. And they never completed the count, because Gore could see the writing on the wall. Florida was called for Bush and the rest is history. 

Trump is down by thousands and even tens of thousands of votes where there were “close calls.” He has NO evidence of voter fraud. Nada. Zilch. Trump is done like dinner, no matter how much people like Macfury, FeXL and eMacMan want to whine about it. Time to put on your big boy pants, kids.


----------



## FeXL

WCraig said:


> Even the guy who won for Bush says it is different:


Yeah. And?


----------



## FeXL

The only whining going on around here is by you Progs about how Trump should concede. The balance of us are merely waiting for the system to work.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...no matter how much people like Macfury, FeXL and eMacMan want to whine about it.


Suck it up, princess. The election ain't over by a long shot. Numbers don't have to be in until Dec. 14.

When the EC calls it, it's done. Until then, "President elect" Joey Wetfingers, "Vice-President elect" Heels-Up Harris and all the other lying, cheating, thieving, stealing commies can go p!SS up a rope.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Time to put on your big boy pants, kids.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Bush was a deep stater with his daddy's CIA connections. You won't expect to see any sort of reciprocity there.





WCraig said:


> I guess everything just ties together when you believe tinfoil crap like that.
> Craig



Duh! You do realize that daddy bush Bush was the 11th director of the CIA? You can bet your a55 that he had access to all the dirt he needed to pull things together in Florida.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> The only whining going on around here is by you Progs about how Trump should concede. The balance of us are merely waiting for the system to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Suck it up, princess. The election ain't over by a long shot. Numbers don't have to be in until Dec. 14.
> 
> When the EC calls it, it's done. Until then, "President elect" Joey Wetfingers, "Vice-President elect" Heels-Up Harris and all the other lying, cheating, thieving, stealing commies can go p!SS up a rope.



Ha ha! It’s fun watching you squirm. Should have taken that bet.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Duh! You do realize that daddy bush Bush was the 11th director of the CIA? You can bet your a55 that he had access to all the dirt he needed to pull things together in Florida.


That's a huge stretch. His term as director of the CIA ended in 1977. Bush Jr. ran in 2001.

Also I'm no fan of either Bush but Bush Sr. was 
- Very principled and honourable
- More in support of Jeb running


----------



## Freddie_Biff

When you can’t play fair, you try other strategies it seems. 



> Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.
> 
> State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate’s victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.
> 
> “I do not see, short of finding some type of fraud — which I haven’t heard of anything — I don’t see us in any serious way addressing a change in electors,” said Rusty Bowers, Arizona’s Republican House speaker, who says he’s been inundated with emails pleading for the legislature to intervene. “They are mandated by statute to choose according to the vote of the people.”
> 
> The idea loosely involves GOP-controlled legislatures dismissing Biden’s popular vote wins in their states and opting to select Trump electors. While the endgame was unclear, it appeared to hinge on the expectation that a conservative-leaning Supreme Court would settle any dispute over the move.
> 
> Still, it has been promoted by Trump allies, including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, and is an example of misleading information and false claims fueling skepticism among Trump supporters about the integrity of the vote.


https://apnews.com/article/election...pennsylvania-b199b2debc87fbb20612a48835bc0dba


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Duh! You do realize that daddy bush Bush was the 11th director of the CIA?


Yes I do. That's why I don't care what any person who loved either of the Bush presidents is trying to say about Trump.


----------



## Macfury

You don't have a clue what is going on!



Freddie_Biff said:


> When you can’t play fair, you try other strategies it seems.
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/election...pennsylvania-b199b2debc87fbb20612a48835bc0dba


----------



## FeXL

When I'm quiet you're critical of that, when I reply I'm squirming.

Which TF is it? Get a grip, Freddie. Face it: you just like the sound of your own voice.

I'll repeat it once more in the hopes that it reaches through your thick Prog skull: I'm waiting for the system to run its course. I'll accept the results of a fair election, no matter who wins.

And, shoulda, woulda, coulda. Add 'em all up & you've still got fukc all...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ha ha! It’s fun watching you squirm. Should have taken that bet.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> You don't have a clue what is going on!


It's not on XiNN so it's not true...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't have a clue what is going on!



I think most people, including me, know more about what’s going on than you do. But humour me: what from your perspective is going on? You don’t agree that Trump is losing bigly?


----------



## WCraig

FeXL said:


> ...Suck it up, princess. The election ain't over by a long shot. Numbers don't have to be in until Dec. 14.
> 
> When the EC calls it, it's done. Until then, "President elect" Joey Wetfingers, "Vice-President elect" Heels-Up Harris and all the other lying, cheating, thieving, stealing commies can go p!SS up a rope.


In 2000, both parties agreed that it was extremely difficult to interpret the voter's wishes on certain ballots. "Dimples, hanging chads, etc" The margin for the entire state of Florida was a few hundred votes. How is 2020 even remotely similar? The only two cases of voter fraud so far have been illegal Republican votes. Biden is ahead by thousands and tens of thousands of votes in the multiple states that Trump would have to flip. There are no grounds to stall the transition. 

The "commies" won. Face reality.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The progs are victorious! The election is over. By a long shot. There is literally nothing that Trump or his disciples can do about it at this point. Except grow up and accept their fate.


----------



## FeXL

Drugs...



WCraig said:


> The only two cases of voter fraud so far have been illegal Republican votes.


No $h!t...



WCraig said:


> Face reality.


----------



## polywog

Out of curiosity and with respect, I'm wondering if those of a mind that the election has not been decided, also believe that all of the positions on the ballots are similarly up in the air? I didn't notice any grievances with Republican Senate nominees declaring victory?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> Out of curiosity and with respect, I'm wondering if those of a mind that the election has not been decided, also believe that all of the positions on the ballots are similarly up in the air? I didn't notice any grievances with Republican Senate nominees declaring victory?



Exactement, as the French would say. No one seems to be complaining about downballot voter fraud, yet it’s the same ballot.


----------



## Macfury

One arty insisted that they could determine voter intent on spoiled ballots that should have been thrown away--the Democrats.



WCraig said:


> In 2000, both parties agreed that it was extremely difficult to interpret the voter's wishes on certain ballots. "Dimples, hanging chads, etc" The margin for the entire state of Florida was a few hundred votes. How is 2020 even remotely similar? The only two cases of voter fraud so far have been illegal Republican votes. Biden is ahead by thousands and tens of thousands of votes in the multiple states that Trump would have to flip. There are no grounds to stall the transition.
> 
> The "commies" won. Face reality.
> 
> Craig


----------



## Macfury

They are similarly up in the air.



polywog said:


> Out of curiosity and with respect, I'm wondering if those of a mind that the election has not been decided, also believe that all of the positions on the ballots are similarly up in the air? I didn't notice any grievances with Republican Senate nominees declaring victory?


----------



## eMacMan

Wish this quote was mine as it really nails it:

"Republicans and Democrats are right about each other and wrong about almost everything else."


----------



## FeXL

polywog said:


> Out of curiosity and with respect, I'm wondering if those of a mind that the election has not been decided, also believe that all of the positions on the ballots are similarly up in the air? I didn't notice any grievances with Republican Senate nominees declaring victory?


With all the BS going on about the presidency, honestly, I haven't been paying much attention to the Senate race. I'd read somewhere that several seats had been picked up by the Republicans but that's as far as I'd gone.

One of the many things about this election that doesn't equate with me is how Trump can pick up millions of Black & Latino voters, how the Republicans can win a number of Senate seats and how Joey Wetfingers is allegedly still ahead. It makes nearly zero sense.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> With all the BS going on about the presidency, honestly, I haven't been paying much attention to the Senate race. I'd read somewhere that several seats had been picked up by the Republicans but that's as far as I'd gone.
> 
> One of the many things about this election that doesn't equate with me is how Trump can pick up millions of Black & Latino voters, how the Republicans can win a number of Senate seats and how Joey Wetfingers is allegedly still ahead. It makes nearly zero sense.


Sure it does. Even if your numbers are correct. Over 161 million Americans voted. The highest % turnout since 1900. The +4% for black voters and +3% for latinos to Trump is marginally small when looked at overall. White men at women is another story altogether (% wise).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> With all the BS going on about the presidency, honestly, I haven't been paying much attention to the Senate race. I'd read somewhere that several seats had been picked up by the Republicans but that's as far as I'd gone.
> 
> One of the many things about this election that doesn't equate with me is how Trump can pick up millions of Black & Latino voters, how the Republicans can win a number of Senate seats and how Joey Wetfingers is allegedly still ahead. It makes nearly zero sense.



“Allegedly” ahead 306 electoral college votes to 232. According to your boy Trump, that’s a landslide.


----------



## FeXL

No, it doesn't. Voting for a GOP Senator and not for a GOP President? Does that make any sense?



smashedbanana said:


> Sure it does.


161 million votes tallied. How many of them are by actual Americans is a subject ripe for debate. And, I've read about some of those percentages, especially in those all important swing states: unprecedented 89% turnout in one Wisconsin district alone. Amazing. Especially when the adjacent districts are what, 15-20 percentage points less? Not curious at all.

If the roles were reversed the Progs would be screaming blue murder...



smashedbanana said:


> Over 161 million Americans voted. The highest % turnout since 1900.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> No, it doesn't. Voting for a GOP Senator and not for a GOP President? Does that make any sense?


Yes. 

Your are voting for a candidate in the US. So your love or hate of the person can cross party lines.




> 161 million votes tallied. How many of them are by actual Americans is a subject ripe for debate. And, I've read about some of those percentages, especially in those all important swing states: unprecedented 89% turnout in one Wisconsin district alone. Amazing. Especially when the adjacent districts are what, 15-20 percentage points less? Not curious at all.


That 89% in Wisconsin has been fact checked and shown conclusively as wrong.

You've repeatedly sited known falsehoods in this thread.



> If the roles were reversed the Progs would be screaming blue murder...


That doesnt track. That's your predisposition. And it's not an argument.


----------



## FeXL

Horse feathers & bull pucky. The person represents the party. I may love an individual to death. However, if he's a Prog politician, he's sans my vote.



smashedbanana said:


> So your love or hate of the person can cross party lines.


Oh, I know. By all the expert Twats on Twitter, no doubt. And most of the swing states stopped counting in the middle of the night because they were all tired & wanted to go home. Not because they saw Joey Wetfingers was losing & had to truck in pallets of ballots custom tailored with his name...



smashedbanana said:


> That 89% in Wisconsin has been fact checked and shown conclusively as wrong.


No doubt. And you've ignored everything else.

In addition, you spelled _cited_ wrong.



smashedbanana said:


> You've repeatedly sited known falsehoods in this thread.


Tell that to all the Progs, RINO's, lefties, etc. (but I repeat myself) who have been questioning Trump's legitimacy as President for the last 4 years.

In addition, you spelled _doesn't_ wrong.



smashedbanana said:


> That doesnt track. That's your predisposition. And it's not an argument.


It doesn't matter what numbers or arguments I use, sb. As an ideologue, you will continue to deny that there is any question of impropriety in the US election.

We really have nothing further to discuss on the topic.


----------



## smashedbanana

FeXL said:


> Horse feathers & bull pucky. The person represents the party. I may love an individual to death. However, if he's a Prog politician, he's sans my vote.


Cool. And therefore that applies to everyone then? Lol. 
Elections should be easy then.




> Oh, I know. By all the expert Twats on Twitter, no doubt. And most of the swing states stopped counting in the middle of the night because they were all tired & wanted to go home. Not because they saw Joey Wetfingers was losing & had to truck in pallets of ballots custom tailored with his name...


Ballot counting 24/7. Again check your facts. A twitter post that confirms your predisposition is not a fact.



> No doubt. And you've ignored everything else.


Big supposition there. You know what I've read and considered. Get a bigger ego buddy!



> In addition, you spelled _cited_ wrong.


Petty!



> Tell that to all the Progs, RINO's, lefties, etc. (but I repeat myself) who have been questioning Trump's legitimacy as President for the last 4 years.


Trumps actions are the driver of both items. And you've managed to buy in!



> In addition, you spelled _doesn't_ wrong.


Petty x2



> It doesn't matter what numbers or arguments I use, sb. As an ideologue, you will continue to deny that there is any question of impropriety in the US election.
> 
> We really have nothing further to discuss on the topic.


Don't really see any argument to speak of. Just someone who is sure that twitter nonsense is an acceptable substitute for facts. 

P.S. I'm willing to take that bet if you are still convinced this can go either way!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

> We really have nothing further to discuss on the topic.


That’s often what people say when they’re losing the argument.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s often what people say when they’re losing the argument.


Well I cannot think of anyone with more expertise in that area.


----------



## Macfury

Statements such as this make me truly wonder where you get your information. The New York Times? CBC? Politifact?



smashedbanana said:


> That 89% in Wisconsin has been fact checked and shown conclusively as wrong.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Statements such as this make me truly wonder where you get your information. The New York Times? CBC? Politifact?



Right back at ya. Breibart? OA? Newsmax? QAnon?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Statements such as this make me truly wonder where you get your information. The New York Times? CBC? Politifact?


Here's the salient question where did the 89% Wisconsin figure come from in the first place? 

The answer is twitter. Bad math created it, it went to Don JR and then got retweeted over 13,000 times within minutes then became a facebook post.

So ya so lets definitely let that that slide and question fact checking that came after.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, I asked one person (not you) where he got one specific piece of information about Wisconsin.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Freddie, I asked one person (not you) where he got one specific piece of information about Wisconsin.


Did you really want an answer?

Question doesn't really read that way. Sounds like you are already reading...

Feel like I should just throw gas on this and say Snopes.

But yes all of what you said, and Reuters, Newsweek, Bloomberg, the Economist, +, and most telling...the responses to those tweets and Facebook posts. And clicking through and seeing where they all started..


----------



## Macfury

I generally check to see if the person actually made the claim in the first place and what the context was. 



smashedbanana said:


> Did you really want an answer?
> 
> Question doesn't really read that way. Sounds like you are already reading...
> 
> Feel like I should just throw gas on this and say Snopes.
> 
> But yes all of what you said, and Reuters, Newsweek, Bloomberg, the Economist, +, and most telling...the responses to those tweets and Facebook posts. And clicking through and seeing where they all started..


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I generally check to see if the person actually made the claim in the first place and what the context was.


To be fair, you didn't challenge the "And, I've read about some of those percentages, especially in those all important swing states: unprecedented 89% turnout in one Wisconsin district alone." claim that FeXL mentioned. You didn't ask for sources. 

It can appear you're simply trying to confirm your biases, even though that may not be your intention.

I'd be interested in seeing which district is in question. Would be pretty easy to confirm either account at https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/results


----------



## Macfury

I didn't challenge FeXL, because it seems to be accurate, based on election night figures. 

Currently, the overall voter turnout for Milwaukee County is at 84% — some higher, some lower, based on election night postings.

https://county.milwaukee.gov/EN/County-Clerk/Off-Nav/Election-Results/Election-Results-Fall-2020

But it's very easy to attack a statement such as: "Eric Trump said there was 89% voter turnout in Wisconsin" -- if it was never said. 





polywog said:


> To be fair, you didn't challenge the "And, I've read about some of those percentages, especially in those all important swing states: unprecedented 89% turnout in one Wisconsin district alone." claim that FeXL mentioned. You didn't ask for sources.
> 
> It can appear you're simply trying to confirm your biases, even though that may not be your intention.
> 
> I'd be interested in seeing which district is in question. Would be pretty easy to confirm either account at https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/results


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> But it's very easy to attack a statement such as: "Eric Trump said there was 89% voter turnout in Wisconsin" -- if it was never said.


It wasn't said that Eric Trump claimed it, rather that he retweeted it, for the record.

https://www.facebook.com/EricTrump/posts/4639180079487361?__tn__=-R

https://twitter.com/DaphneChen_/status/1324149977761927168/photo/1

EDIT: Meant to speak to the link you kindly provided:

From the link you provided, 460300 votes were cast in 2020. 
Also from the same site, 441,053 were cast in 2016.

It doesn't seem to be a monumental, suspect increase in voter count to me?

See: https://county.milwaukee.gov/files/.../ElectionRecount-Final-12-19-16xlsxCopy-1.pdf


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> It wasn't said that Eric Trump claimed it, rather that he retweeted it, for the record.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/EricTrump/posts/4639180079487361?__tn__=-R
> 
> https://twitter.com/DaphneChen_/status/1324149977761927168/photo/1
> 
> EDIT: Meant to speak to the link you kindly provided:
> 
> From the link you provided, 460300 votes were cast in 2020.
> Also from the same site, 441,053 were cast in 2016.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be a monumental, suspect increase in voter count to me?
> 
> See: https://county.milwaukee.gov/files/.../ElectionRecount-Final-12-19-16xlsxCopy-1.pdf



Retweeting it on election night is a long way from saying it! 

I'm not saying that 89% is impossible--only that I believe it is likely what was reported for some wards.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Retweeting it on election night is a long way from saying it!
> 
> I'm not saying that 89% is impossible--only that I believe it is likely what was reported for some wards.


Maybe I've misread "Bad math created it, it went to Don JR and then got retweeted over 13,000 times within minutes then became a facebook post." or you're referring to some other post. Either way I guess it's moot since we're most likely saying the same thing. Thanks for bearing with me.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, I asked one person (not you) where he got one specific piece of information about Wisconsin.



Ooh! Touchy touchy. Something bothering you?


----------



## Macfury

Nahh, just felt like berating you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Ooh! Touchy touchy. Something bothering you?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Retweeting it on election night is a long way from saying it!
> 
> I'm not saying that 89% is impossible--only that I believe it is likely what was reported for some wards.


We are a long way away from election night.
And we are a long way away from where this started.

Fexl posted that number as a reason today to suggest impropriety. 
I posted that number had been fact checked as wrong. 

I've really had to pass muster with my comment.
Very double standard. But of course you mentioned Fexl's number "looked possible". So that's good enough I guess.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Alternative facts, doncha know.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure has been quiet around here. How are those recounts coming? With all that voter fraud going on you’d think we’d be hearing something.


----------



## Macfury

We've all been watching the show. Too much happening to keep up with!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure has been quiet around here. How are those recounts coming? With all that voter fraud going on you’d think we’d be hearing something.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> We've all been watching the show. Too much happening to keep up with!



By the show, you mean Rudy Giuliani and his hair colour dripping down his face mishap? Or are you referring to The Crown?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Biden wins Georgia. Again. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/ele...live-updates/#link-JCPAVDRVSBHO5HPY67YXPYPWPY


----------



## Macfury

They rescinded the certification.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Biden wins Georgia. Again.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/ele...live-updates/#link-JCPAVDRVSBHO5HPY67YXPYPWPY


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They rescinded the certification.



Cite please. No actual news outlets seem to agree with you.


----------



## 18m2

> At roughly 2:20 PM PST, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger expressed disappointment his party lost but said "numbers don't lie".



https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55006188


----------



## Macfury

The certification was rescinded then approved. However, the same illegal votes were recounted. The results were not going to be different. 



18m2 said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55006188


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The certification was rescinded then approved. However, the same illegal votes were recounted. The results were not going to be different.



Which votes were illegal? How many votes are you referring to?


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> ... illegal votes were recounted.


"Illegal" in the Jim Crow sense?

Craig


----------



## Macfury

Their was no inspection of the ballots. It was simply a recount of the same ballots.

However, as peviously stated, as of the time of this post the Georgia vote is not fully certified. A final certification is required from the state's governor. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Which votes were illegal? How many votes are you referring to?


----------



## polywog

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-certify-election-joe-biden-ea8f867d740f3d7d42d0a55c1aef9e69


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Their was no inspection of the ballots. It was simply a recount of the same ballots.
> 
> However, as peviously stated, as of the time of this post the Georgia vote is not fully certified. A final certification is required from the state's governor.



You know, I really think you’re clinging to some kind of false hope. Any sane person knows that there were no significant problems with the votes in this election. Biden won by thousands and tens of thousands of votes in the jurisdictions being questioned. Every lawsuit is being thrown out. It’s time to end your allegiance to the cult of Trump. You’re looking like a fool.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> https://apnews.com/article/georgia-certify-election-joe-biden-ea8f867d740f3d7d42d0a55c1aef9e69



Exactement, as the French would say. 


“Working as an engineer throughout my life, I live by the motto that numbers don’t lie,” he said. “As secretary of state, I believe that the numbers that we have presented today are correct. The numbers reflect the verdict of the people, not a decision by the secretary of state’s office or of courts or of either campaign.”


----------



## Macfury

Hey Polywog, this is an example of how the mainstream news is so colossally dishonest. They report only on news they like and ignore everything else:

https://allongeorgia.com/georgia-st...udit-endorses-voter-id-for-mail-in-balloting/

Governor Kemp:



> “Earlier today, Secretary Raffensperger presented the certified results of the 2020 general election to my office. Following Judge Grimberg’s ruling yesterday, *state law now requires the Governor’s Office to formalize the certification, which paves the way for the Trump campaign to pursue other legal options and a separate recount if they choose. *





polywog said:


> https://apnews.com/article/georgia-certify-election-joe-biden-ea8f867d740f3d7d42d0a55c1aef9e69


I leave Freddie to pick through the wreckage of his previous two posts.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Hey Polywog, this is an example of how the mainstream news is so colossally dishonest. They report only on news they like and ignore everything else:
> 
> https://allongeorgia.com/georgia-st...udit-endorses-voter-id-for-mail-in-balloting/
> 
> Governor Kemp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I leave Freddie to pick through the wreckage of his previous two posts.



Your attempts to defend the actions of the Trump campaign are pathetic, MacFury. Sooner or later you’re going to have to admit your guy lost. Bigly. Even FeXL is afraid to show his face around here lately. Read the writing on the wall. You were wrong.


----------



## Macfury

Like me FeXL is probably monitoring the many election activities happening right now, that your media sources don't want you to know about. Nothing wrong with your choice to limit your scope of understanding Freddie -- but also understand that this limits how much people are willing to listen to you bray. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Your attempts to defend the actions of the Trump campaign are pathetic, MacFury. Sooner or later you’re going to have to admit your guy lost. Bigly. Even FeXL is afraid to show his face around here lately. Read the writing on the wall. You were wrong.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Like me FeXL is probably monitoring the many election activities happening right now, that your media sources don't want you to know about. Nothing wrong with your choice to limit your scope of understanding Freddie -- but also understand that this limits how much people are willing to listen to you bray.



Well, your sources are dwindling. Even Trump doesn’t praise Fox News anymore after they betrayed him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the hits just keep coming. 



> A federal judge on Saturday dismissed a Trump campaign lawsuit that accused Pennsylvania officials of enabling voter fraud, opening the way for the state to certify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory and dealing a blow to the president’s narrowing legal options.
> 
> U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann said the Trump campaign had used the lawsuit to attempt to discard legally cast votes, rejecting arguments made by President Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, that Pennsylvania’s mail-in ballot procedures presented the opportunity for widespread voter fraud.
> 
> In his ruling, Judge Brann concluded the lawsuit was marred by “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations…unsupported by evidence.”
> “In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” wrote Judge Brann, an Obama appointee who has been a member of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal group.
> 
> The ruling marks a major legal setback for Mr. Trump, who has pressed advisers to find victory in the courts before battleground states like Michigan and Pennsylvania certify wins for Mr. Biden on Monday. The Trump campaign and conservative allies have also lost cases in Michigan, Georgia, Nevada and Arizona, and the president’s legal team has also suffered other defeats in Pennsylvania state courts, where it has sought to invalidate thousands of mail-in ballots with minor errors.


 https://apple.news/A7ELtlu40SSuVGpK7HNKrkQ


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Like me FeXL is probably monitoring the many election activities happening right now......


----------



## Macfury

Is that you after Bernie got his ass handed to him following a Dominion Voting loss in the primaries, CM?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Is that you after Bernie got his ass handed to him following a Dominion Voting loss in the primaries, CM?



That’s a weak insult, even for you, Macfury. You must be running out of ammunition.


----------



## Macfury

You don't even understand what I'm talking about Freddie!



Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s a weak insult, even for you, Macfury. You must be running out of ammunition.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You don't even understand what I'm talking about Freddie!



Nor do you, apparently. Trump’s defeat has your head spinning.


----------



## WCraig

This:


----------



## Macfury

If you run them through the same machine, you will get the same result.



WCraig said:


> This:


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* Trump agrees to begin transition as key agency calls Biden 'apparent' election winner





:clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So rumour has it that a transition is starting to take place. Still hanging on to that recount theory, Macfury?


----------



## Macfury

This post suggests that you are seriously out of the loop on what is happening. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> So rumour has it that a transition is starting to take place. Still hanging on to that recount theory, Macfury?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This post suggests that you are seriously out of the loop on what is happening.



Trump is done like dinner. The Trump admin is asking that preparations for the transition to the Biden administration begin. Even Trump is beginning to realize the loss. What’s taking you so long?


----------



## Macfury

Freddie, if you took even five minutes to look into this, you might understand that these posts make you look like a braying gasbag. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Trump is done like dinner. The Trump admin is asking that preparations for the transition to the Biden administration begin. Even Trump is beginning to realize the loss. What’s taking you so long?


----------



## eMacMan

I wonder if most Americans had understood what UN Agenda 2030 is, and were aware of Biden's stated commitment to using the planned panicdemic as a springboard to implementing Agenda 2030; would they still have voted for him?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie, if you took even five minutes to look into this, you might understand that these posts make you look like a braying gasbag.



Even when you’ve lost you can’t admit it. Just like your hero.


----------



## WCraig

eMacMan said:


> I wonder if most Americans had understood what UN Agenda 2030 is, and were aware of Biden's stated commitment to using the planned panicdemic as a springboard to implementing Agenda 2030; would they still have voted for him?


I think your tinfoil hat is pinching your skull a little too tightly. 

Craig


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> I wonder if most Americans had understood what UN Agenda 2030 is, and were aware of Biden's stated commitment to using the planned panicdemic as a springboard to implementing Agenda 2030; would they still have voted for him?


*OOOH!!!! UN AGENDA 2030!!!!  AAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!!!!*

Is that the latest boogeyman for the Alt-Right community? Given up on the Black Helicopter invasion worry?

What on earth can be found in the _Agenda 2030_ plan (PDF), adopted by the General Assembly, that has your dander up?

Let me guess - you've been reading the John Birch Society website again, haven't you? There's paranoid Ayn Rand cultists, and then there's those guys. Hoooooo boy. There's some crazy on parade right there, alright. :lmao:

I mean, it's not like much is actually going to be accomplished. These are all wishful thinking documents that rarely achieve much in real-world terms, and they all have at their core free trade, increased global investment, economic growth (as opposed to equitable distribution of economic gains), with the same old dysfunctional organizations like the WTO, IPO, World Bank, etc., at the heart of any economic strategies pursued... the same organizations responsible for the disadvantaged positions in which the world's poor find themselves.

Agenda 2030 is no leftist plot: "193 governments including the United States ratified the SDGs. However, the UN reported minimal progress after three years within the 15-year timetable of this project. Funding remains trillions of dollars short. The United States stand last among the G20 nations to attain these Sustainable Development Goals and 36th worldwide." (Wikipedia)

But please, do go on about the nefarious technocrats who are about to dictate our daily lives. I have popcorn at the ready.


----------



## Macfury

According to one of the architects of this scheme, the Joint Ministerial Committee of the Boards of Governors of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund:



> “To meet the investment needs of the Sustainable Development Goals, the global community needs to move the discussion from ‘Billions’ in ODA [Official Development Assistance] to ‘Trillions’ in investments of all kinds: public and private, national and global, in both capital and capacity.”


The sucking sound of mass wealth transfer on a global scale. No thanks.



CubaMark said:


> *OOOH!!!! UN AGENDA 2030!!!!  AAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!!!!*


----------



## eMacMan

WCraig said:


> I think your tinfoil hat is pinching your skull a little too tightly.
> 
> Craig


Let's see. Agenda 2030 is genuine. Both the TrueDope and Biden are on record as being committed to making it happen. At this point it would take a mass awakening to prevent it. Instead we have mask hysteria to mask the onslaught. 

I am betting that had I told you a year ago; you would be afraid to get closer than 201 cm to your neighbour; would willingly wear a mask just 'cause the idiots in charge tell you to; and would be demanding another lockdown to destroy your Christmas Holidays and further decimate the small business community, you would have labeled that as a far right, tin-foil hat, conspiracy theory. 

Yet here we are. Like it or not until we all stand up and say NO, the tyranny will continue to expand, and our rights and freedoms continue to dwindle.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Let's see. Agenda 2030 is genuine. Both the TrueDope and Biden are on record as being committed to making it happen. At this point it would take a mass awakening to prevent it. Instead we have mask hysteria to mask the onslaught.
> 
> I am betting that had I told you a year ago; you would be afraid to get closer than 201 cm to your neighbour; would willingly wear a mask just 'cause the idiots in charge tell you to; and would be demanding another lockdown to destroy your Christmas Holidays and further decimate the small business community, you would have labeled that as a far right, tin-foil hat, conspiracy theory.
> 
> Yet here we are. Like it or not until we all stand up and say NO, the tyranny will continue to expand, and our rights and freedoms continue to dwindle.


CM celebrates his subjugation!


----------



## WCraig

eMacMan said:


> ...
> I am betting that had I told you a year ago; you would be afraid to get closer than 201 cm to your neighbour; would willingly wear a mask just 'cause the idiots in charge tell you to; and would be demanding another lockdown to destroy your Christmas Holidays and further decimate the small business community, you would have labeled that as a far right, tin-foil hat, conspiracy theory.


Actually, my mother was sick with COPD for 10 years before she died. Whenever she was in hospital, she was kept in isolation so a bug, that would be a minor discomfort to most of us, didn't kill her. I had to don mask, gown, and gloves to enter her hospital room to visit. 

Her retirement home took infection control seriously. At a minimum, that meant hand sanitizer for any visitor and warning signs about entering if you had any symptoms. After SARS, they developed a plan to absolutely minimize external contact if the event of another epidemic. 

BTW, this was all in a tiny rural village in the middle of nowhere.

So, as a matter of fact, I had a pretty decent idea what was needed when Covid-19 spread to Canada.

I assume all anti-maskers must have Velcro closers on their shoes. Because clearly, tying shoelaces must also be beyond their understanding.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sorry to hear about your mother, Craig. Sadly, a lot of people just don’t care unless something affects them personally. The idea of wearing a mask to prevent spreading a virus to someone else is just too inconvenient compared with “freedom and liberty.” Some people only learn the hard way. Here in Alberta we’re going back into semi-lockdown mode starting next week. I guess we’ll see if it makes a difference.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry to hear about your mother, Craig. Sadly, a lot of people just don’t care unless something affects them personally. The idea of wearing a mask to prevent spreading a virus to someone else is just too inconvenient compared with “freedom and liberty.” Some people only learn the hard way. Here in Alberta we’re going back into semi-lockdown mode starting next week. I guess we’ll see if it makes a difference.


Based entirely on proven false assumptions that masks can effectively prevent the spread of a virus and also that masks do no harm to the wearer.

Dr. Vernon Coleman has researched this meticulously and literally has 100 points which contradict both of those premises. Here is the first:



> 1 Surgeons have been using surgical masks since their introduction in 1897. It has for some years been customary for surgeons and nurses to wear surgical masks in the operating theatre and to change masks part of the way through any procedure lasting more than a few hours.
> 
> The dangers associated with mask wearing were assessed by five doctors and published in the journal Neurocirugia in 2008.
> 
> Although it is customary for operating theatres to be fitted with air conditioning systems, the writers of the article, entitled, Preliminary Report on Surgical Mask induced Deoxygenation During Major Surgery, pointed out that it is known that heat and moisture are trapped beneath surgical masks and concluded that ‘it seems reasonable that some of the exhaled carbon dioxide may also be trapped beneath them, inducing a decrease in blood oxygenation’.
> A total of 53 surgeons, of both sexes, all employed at university hospitals and aged between 24 and 54 years of age were tested. All were non-smokers and none had any chronic lung disease. The test involved pulse oximetry before and after the course of an operation. *The study showed that the longer a mask was worn the greater the fall in blood oxygen levels. This may lead to the individual passing out and it may also affect natural immunity – thereby increasing the risk of infection.*
> 
> The masks used were disposable, sterile, one-way surgical paper masks. To eliminate the effect of dehydration over a several hour surgical operation, the surgeons were allowed after every hour to drink water through a straw.
> 
> *The authors of the paper concluded that, ‘When the values for oxygen saturation of haemoglobin were compared, there were statistically significant differences only between preoperational and post operational values. As the duration of the operation increases, oxygen saturation of haemoglobin decreases significantly.’*


Emphasis mine. English translation: Masks can harm the wearer even in carefully controlled conditions.


----------



## eMacMan

And a second worthy quote:


> 2. This quote is taken from New England Journal of Medicine: ‘We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. *Public health authorities define a significant exposure to covid-19 as face to face contact within six feet with a patient with symptomatic covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 20 minutes). The chance of catching covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal.* In many cases the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.’ The reference is: M.Klompas, C.Morris et al ‘Universal Masking in hospitals in the covid-19 era’ – New England Journal of Medicine 2020


That also ignores an obvious bit of science which most of us who understood math learned back in high school. Air exchange outdoors is 100s if not 1000s times faster than the air exchange in a closed room. So mandating masks outdoors not only risks the wearers health but is completely pointless, ditto for anti-social distancing rules.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> And a second worthy quote:
> That also ignores an obvious bit of science which most of us who understood math learned back in high school. Air exchange outdoors is 100s if not 1000s times faster than the air exchange in a closed room. So mandating masks outdoors not only risks the wearers health but is completely pointless, ditto for anti-social distancing rules.


Ah yes, renowned anti-vaxxer Erin Marie Olszewski quoted that in her book https://www.amazon.ca/Undercover-Epicenter-Nurse-Negligence-Unnecessary/dp/151076366X

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...masks-coronavirus-covid-19-spread/5454384002/

_In a follow-up letter to the New England Journal of Medicine published online June 3 and in print July 9, three of the article's authors, Drs. Michael Klompas, Charles Morris and Erica Shenoy, wrote some people were using their article "as support for discrediting widespread masking."

"We understand that some people are citing our perspective article as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions. *Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not," the three authors wrote in the letter.*_


----------



## WCraig

One crackpot does not equal scientific consensus.




> Coleman's medical health claims have been widely discredited or described as pseudoscientific.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> Ah yes, renowned anti-vaxxer Erin Marie Olszewski quoted that in her book https://www.amazon.ca/Undercover-Epicenter-Nurse-Negligence-Unnecessary/dp/151076366X
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...masks-coronavirus-covid-19-spread/5454384002/
> 
> _In a follow-up letter to the New England Journal of Medicine published online June 3 and in print July 9, three of the article's authors, Drs. Michael Klompas, Charles Morris and Erica Shenoy, wrote some people were using their article "as support for discrediting widespread masking."
> 
> "We understand that some people are citing our perspective article as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions. *Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not," the three authors wrote in the letter.*_



eMacMan, hoisted by his own petards! Good thing he knows math, because his reading comprehension could use some work.


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> Ah yes, renowned anti-vaxxer Erin Marie Olszewski quoted that in her book https://www.amazon.ca/Undercover-Epicenter-Nurse-Negligence-Unnecessary/dp/151076366X
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...masks-coronavirus-covid-19-spread/5454384002/
> 
> _In a follow-up letter to the New England Journal of Medicine published online June 3 and in print July 9, three of the article's authors, Drs. Michael Klompas, Charles Morris and Erica Shenoy, wrote some people were using their article "as support for discrediting widespread masking."
> 
> __ "We understand that some people are citing our perspective article as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions. *Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not," the three authors wrote in the letter.*_


Kinda tough when their argument proves more persuasive for the other side. Not what WHO is paying them for.

Again that this argument only applies to viruses that are benevolent enough to attach themselves to particles large enough to be captured by a mask and also remain attached to that particle rather than being pushed on through by the next breath of air. Ignored in this argument is that those larger particles fall quickly to ground where the viruses attached soon lose viability. Unattached viruses which remain suspended for extended time frames are the ones which are most likely to transmit disease.

Still if you believe all of those viral particles are so benevolently well behaved, then wearing a mask should be all the protection you need, no sane reason to demand I or anyone else wear a mask. No need for others to risk staph infection, bacterial lung infection, skin rashes, allergic reaction, weakened immune systems, or any other complication associated with wearing masks. Of course if only a small portion of the exhaled viruses are so captured and trapped, then wearing masks is absolutely pointless.

Again quite interesting with mask mandates in effect across Quebec, Ontario, and now much of Alberta; that cases and even deaths are skyrocketing again, and almost entirely in the cities where the mandates are fairly well observed. Of course lumping in flu and bacterial pneumonia deaths as Covid certainly has helped that increase along. Even so it clearly contradicts the mask narrative.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> No need for others to risk staph infection, bacterial lung infection, skin rashes, allergic reaction, weakened immune systems, or any other complication associated with wearing masks.


According to you in another thread, most of these symptoms happened to turn up during a single 15 minutes visit at a local coffee shop. And YET ...



eMacMan said:


> Again quite interesting with mask mandates in effect across Quebec, Ontario, and now much of Alberta; that cases and even deaths are skyrocketing again, and almost entirely in the cities where the mandates are fairly well observed.


... strangely there aren't any widespread reports of mask induced bacterial lung infections sweeping these places, nor deadly terrorizing skin rashes, nor backed up ICUs dealing with staph infections. You ran into most of those in a 15 minute coffee shop visit, after all. It stands to reason based on that sample, monstrous face acne should be happening at a far more alarming rate than COVID ever could.

It probably IS happening, but the liberal media just doesn't bother to report it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure is quiet around here lately. Haven’t heard from FeXL in more than a week. I wonder why that is...


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> ... strangely there aren't any widespread reports of mask induced bacterial lung infections...


There was some false information about the Spanish Flu indicating that more people died of mask-induced bacterial infections than the virus. The truth is that more people died of bacterial infections because they were more susceptible due to the damage caused by the virus--not because of the masks.

I have no problem with businesses requiring mask use on their premises or even mask use on some public property -- for awhile. The vast majority of COVID deaths in Canada remain seniors in health care facilities, with only a few deaths outside of them. Locking down 99% of the population to protect the other 1% is perverse.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I have no problem with businesses requiring mask use on their premises or even mask use on some public property -- for awhile. The vast majority of COVID deaths in Canada remain seniors in health care facilities, with only a few deaths outside of them. Locking down 99% of the population to protect the other 1% is perverse.


I don't disagree with what you're saying conceptually, but isn't it reasonable to expect a disproportionate number of deaths where there are high concentrations of the most susceptible people? In other words, are there more deaths at health care facilities only because they are people in the most vulnerable age category? Would those seniors have similarly died outside of that environment? Just speculating, I can't say I've spent any time looking at research on the subject.

But I will add that masks aren't about directly preventing deaths; it's about slowing infection rates, which hopefully lowers the fatality rate. We'll all likely contract covid at some point unless there is a vaccine. The major problem is if we all get it at once.

I feel this conversation is probably best kept in the coronavirus thread though!


----------



## smashedbanana

Guys there is a Covid-19 thread for mask discussion.

This thread is for celebrating the loss of the Donald and what parking lot is best for news conferences.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Guys there is a Covid-19 thread for mask discussion.
> 
> This thread is for celebrating the loss of the Donald and what parking lot is best for news conferences.



Clap clap clap!


----------



## CubaMark

It's almost like Trump is on a mission to make the Presidency of the USA the most ridiculous (and ridiculed) thing ever. Is his own staff doing this on purpose? :lmao:



*Related:*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> It's almost like Trump is on a mission to make the Presidency of the USA the most ridiculous (and ridiculed) thing ever. Is his own staff doing this on purpose? :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> *Related:*



S’more on Baby Trump. 

 https://youtu.be/iC1-FOwDtV0


----------



## WCraig

WCraig said:


> Has any of Trumps legal challenges had any success? Last I heard, a dozen suits had been thrown out of court because they lacked any shred of creditable evidence. The Department of Homeland Security came out with a strong statement that the 2020 Elections were free and fair.
> 
> If Trump is going to persist in his delusions, the 25th Amendment is appropriate.


Following up after two more weeks. More than 3 dozen Trump lawsuits have now been withdrawn or thrown out of court. Mostly for an appalling lack of evidence supporting any of the claims made.

Even a Trump-appointed judge threw out a suit:

"Brann wrote that Trump’s campaign had used “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations” in its effort to throw out millions of votes.

“In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” Brann wrote."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-campaign-lawsuit-in-pennsylvania/ar-BB1beZaw

Trump was soundly--and fairly--defeated because he is the most vile, loathsome, disgusting, crooked, sociopathic, and repulsive occupant of the Oval Office in at least a century. Probably ever. Those qualities are apparently attractive to some but they served to motivate huge numbers of others to get off their asses and vote him out of office. 

Voters kicked him out. No voting conspiracy existed or was needed.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> Following up after two more weeks. More than 3 dozen Trump lawsuits have now been withdrawn or thrown out of court. Mostly for an appalling lack of evidence supporting any of the claims made.
> 
> Even a Trump-appointed judge through out a suit:
> 
> "Brann wrote that Trump’s campaign had used “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations” in its effort to throw out millions of votes.
> 
> “In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” Brann wrote."
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-campaign-lawsuit-in-pennsylvania/ar-BB1beZaw
> 
> Trump was soundly--and fairly--defeated because he is the most vile, loathsome, disgusting, crooked, sociopathic, and repulsive occupant of the Oval Office in at least a century. Probably ever. Those qualities are apparently attractive to some but they served to motivate huge numbers of others to get off their asses and vote him out of office.
> 
> Voters kicked him out. No voting conspiracy existed or was needed.
> 
> Craig



Trump is done, even if he doesn’t want to admit it to himself. More Republicans are realizing it all the time. His tantrums about voter fraud are ridiculous. He now thinks Biden should have to prove how he got 80 million votes. I don’t think he really understands how elections work. If he hadn’t been such an asshole, maybe more people would have voted for him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

My, but our usual suspects like FeXL have been very quiet lately around here. Is that like admitting they were wrong about Trump? The mind boggles.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed... we've witnessed your mind boggling lo these many years.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The mind boggles.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Agreed... we've witnessed your mind boggling lo these many years.



Nice comeback. Where’s all the blustery big defence of Donald Trump you’ve been known for all these years? Where’s all the detailed explanations of election fraud? What, you mean you’ve given up?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hey Macfury, FeXL, eMacMan: even Trump is reluctantly beginning to see the light. Can you? 



> Trump questions whether Supreme Court would hear election challenge as options dwindle
> 
> WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump on Sunday questioned whether the Supreme Court would ever hear a case airing his unproven allegations of widespread election fraud as senior U.S. Republicans said a transition to a Joe Biden presidency looked inevitable.
> 
> Trump’s comments in a telephone interview with Fox News Channel suggested a growing resignation to the results of the Nov. 3 election that handed the White House to his Democratic opponent Biden, and it came as the Republican president’s team was dealt another blow.
> 
> The recount of ballots in Wisconsin’s two largest counties finished on Sunday, confirming Biden won the hotly contested swing state by more than 20,000 votes.
> 
> Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, chair of the congressional inaugural committee, said the group of senior lawmakers expects Biden to be sworn in as president on Jan. 20.
> 
> “We’re working with the Biden administration, the likely administration on both the transition and the inauguration as if we’re moving forward,” Blunt said on CNN’s “State of the Union,” though he stopped short of acknowledging Trump lost.
> 
> Governor Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas is one of a few Republicans to refer to Biden as the president-elect.
> 
> “The transition is what is important. The words of President Trump are not quite as significant,” Hutchinson told “Fox News Sunday.”
> 
> Trump used his interview on Fox News Channel’s “Sunday Morning Futures” to repeat the allegations he has made without evidence about widespread electoral fraud. His campaign and legal team have lost dozens of lawsuits by failing to convince judges of election irregularities in states including Michigan, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada, all critical to Biden’s victory.
> 
> Trump was not clear on what legal steps he would take next.
> 
> “The problem is it’s hard to get it to the Supreme Court,” Trump said, without clarifying whether he thought the court would decline to hear an appeal or whether his campaign may not even make one.
> 
> Trump’s legal team has offered conflicting statements on their likely course following a defeat in a federal appeals court on Friday in a case they were pursuing challenging Biden’s win in Pennsylvania.
> 
> “On to SCOTUS!” Trump campaign attorney Jenna Ellis wrote on Twitter after the ruling, suggesting a plan to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
> 
> Later, however, Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani reportedly told One America News Network that the legal team was still weighing which case might be appropriate to pursue at the top court.
> 
> Trump said he will continue to fight the results of the election, saying “my mind will not change in six months.”
> 
> His comments appeared to signal his intention to continue contesting the outcome even after he leaves office. Aides say he has been discussing several media ventures, including starting a new television channel or social media company to keep him in the spotlight ahead of a potential 2024 White House bid.
> 
> Biden won the presidential election with 306 Electoral College votes – many more than the 270 required – to Trump’s 232. Biden also leads Trump by more than 6 million in the popular vote tally.
> 
> (Reporting by Linda So and Raphael Satter; Additional reporting by Jarrett Renshaw, Tim Ahmann and Andrea Shalal; Writing by Lisa Shumaker; Editing by Daniel Wallis)


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/financ...wcm/527e5914-17bb-4dbb-b07a-f6fcb9400f4b/amp/


----------



## Macfury

Your previous posts demonstrate a fatal deficiency in knowledge of the U.S. constitution, state constitutions and American elections in general. Why waste time here, when there are other forums to discuss this with more knowledgeable people?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nice comeback. Where’s all the blustery big defence of Donald Trump you’ve been known for all these years? Where’s all the detailed explanations of election fraud? What, you mean you’ve given up?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Your previous posts demonstrate a fatal deficiency in knowledge of the U.S. constitution, state constitutions and American elections in general. Why waste time here, when there are other forums to discuss this with more knowledgeable people?



Again, you have not answered the question. I will presume it’s because you don’t have a good answer. You won’t even bother to try. That’s fine for you to admit you’re in over your head. Trump lost, Biden won, end of story. Everybody knows it, even if you can’t admit it.


----------



## Macfury

You lack even a rudimentary grasp of the issues.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Again, you have not answered the question. I will presume it’s because you don’t have a good answer. You won’t even bother to try. That’s fine for you to admit you’re in over your head. Trump lost, Biden won, end of story. Everybody knows it, even if you can’t admit it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You lack even a rudimentary grasp of the issues.



Given that you won’t even make a rudimentary attempt to answer the question, it would appear to be you who are the one who does not understand. Trump’s exhausted pretty much all his legal avenues now (which he had his lemmings pay for). There’s nothing left for him to do now but move out. Give it up, Macfury. I can understand why he won’t concede, but I always thought you were more intelligent than this.


----------



## Macfury

What you're saying here is so drastically off kilter that it's clear you have only a child's understanding of the U.S. election.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Given that you won’t even make a rudimentary attempt to answer the question, it would appear to be you who are the one who does not understand. Trump’s exhausted pretty much all his legal avenues now (which he had his lemmings pay for). There’s nothing left for him to do now but move out. Give it up, Macfury. I can understand why he won’t concede, but I always thought you were more intelligent than this.


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> What you're saying here is so drastically off kilter that it's clear you have only a child's understanding of the U.S. election.


So, enlighten us 'Daddy'. Give us a hint how Trump can remain POTUS. You keep making vague suggestions that big things are afoot but haven't said anything of substance. Have you got ANYTHING?

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What you're saying here is so drastically off kilter that it's clear you have only a child's understanding of the U.S. election.



That’s funny. I know that whoever wins the electoral college becomes the next president. Biden has the clear lead here with 306 to Trump’s 232. The EC verifying this result on December 14 is essentially a formality. Rather than toss out insults, why don’t you actually explain what you think it is I’m not seeing. Otherwise I will have to assume that it is you who does not understand US elections. You are being intellectually lazy.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> The EC verifying this result on December 14 is essentially a formality.


It is not and you should know that.



WCraig said:


> So, enlighten us 'Daddy'. Give us a hint how Trump can remain POTUS. You keep making vague suggestions that big things are afoot but haven't said anything of substance. Have you got ANYTHING?
> 
> Craig


1) The recounts are not the end of the review process in each state. These are legal formalities.

2) Certain Executive Orders give the President extraordinary powers regarding the results of a fraudulent election.


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> 1) The recounts are not the end of the review process in each state. These are legal formalities.
> 
> 2) Certain Executive Orders give the President extraordinary powers regarding the results of a fraudulent election.


More hand-waving generalities. Claiming the election is fraudulent means nothing without proof. No proof has been offered so the President has no extraordinary powers...whatever you think those are.

Trump lost. Get over it.

Craig


----------



## Macfury

Enjoy the next few days!



WCraig said:


> More hand-waving generalities. Claiming the election is fraudulent means nothing without proof. No proof has been offered so the President has no extraordinary powers...whatever you think those are.
> 
> Trump lost. Get over it.
> 
> Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury has been drinking his own bath water. FeXL is afraid to show his face around here. eMacMan doesn’t know who he’s supposed to turn to for direction anymore. The once mighty cartel is floundering, just like Trump.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think eMacMan cares who wins.

Apparently you do, and your intellectual laziness will allow for some fun surprises over the next week or so!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury has been drinking his own bath water. FeXL is afraid to show his face around here. eMacMan doesn’t know who he’s supposed to turn to for direction anymore. The once mighty cartel is floundering, just like Trump.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I don't think eMacMan cares who wins.
> 
> Apparently you do, and your intellectual laziness will allow for some fun surprises over the next week or so!


I never claimed that I thought either of these clowns is worthy of the office. 

I know who lost and as with all recent American elections it was the electorate. Biden will continue and accelerate the demolition of the USA, to allow the New World Order Tyrants to complete their takeover almost unopposed. Something which Freddie and CM seem to wholeheartedly support. After all who really needs or even wants a job, or a roof over their heads?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I never claimed that I thought either of these clowns is worthy of the office.
> 
> I know who lost and as with all recent American elections it was the electorate. Biden will continue and accelerate the demolition of the USA, to allow the New World Order Tyrants to complete their takeover almost unopposed. Something which Freddie and CM seem to wholeheartedly support. After all who really needs or even wants a job, or a roof over their heads?



One thing at a time. So you believe Trump lost the election to Biden?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

S’more reaction from Pennsylvania. 



> Trump Team Would Get Its 'Clock Cleaned' At Supreme Court, Scoffs Pennsylvania's Lt. Gov.
> 
> Lawyers' baseless arguments of voter fraud "get shredded in any courtroom they’re dumb enough to step into," John Fetterman snapped.
> 
> Pennsylvania Lt. Gov. John Fetterman laughed off the “losing” legal challenges by President Donald Trump and his campaign and warned that they would get their “clock cleaned” if they get a case to the U.S. Supreme Court.
> 
> Fetterman, a Democrat, disdainfully referred to the team’s baseless claims of election fraud as “snake handling.”
> 
> The Trump campaign and supporters lost two key Pennsylvania cases in a week this month. U.S. District Court Judge Matthew W. Brann blasted a suit to block votes “without merit” — or evidence of any fraud. In another ruling Saturday, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously tossed a lawsuit by Rep. John Kelly (R-Pa.) and other Republicans challenging the legitimacy of mail-in ballots.
> 
> Asked on CNN late Saturday if he was worried about an appeal to the top court, Fetterman smiled and responded: “I hope they do. They’re gonna get their clock cleaned there the way they did here in Pennsylvania.”
> 
> Fetterman said that when it comes time to produce any evidence to back up the campaign’s baseless accusations of fraud, “they talk about how they have a sworn affidavit from someone who heard a cousin’s girlfriend at work [who] read something on Facebook ... which of course gets shredded in every courtroom that they’re dumb enough to step into.”
> 
> Joe Biden’s “going to be the next president of the United States,” Fetterman declared. “These lies that are only meant to destroy and damage the American franchise have been rejected time and time again.”
> 
> The wrangling is continuing, he said, because Republicans have to deal with a vengeful president and are under pressure to “pander to the snake-handling, lunatic fringe of the party.”
> 
> Check out Fetterman’s CNN interview in the video up top.


 https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...e?ri18n=true&ncid=APPLENEWS00001&guccounter=1


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> One thing at a time. So you believe Trump lost the election to Biden?



I stated quite clearly who I thought lost. Your reading skills seem to be as bad as your math skills.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I stated quite clearly who I thought lost. Your reading skills seem to be as bad as your math skills.


Don't snap at the dotard. He's quoting a _Huffington Post_ article on a CNN TV segment to back up his braying. Clearly something is wrong with him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I stated quite clearly who I thought lost. Your reading skills seem to be as bad as your math skills.



Okay, but an election isn’t decided with vague symbolism. Stop evading the question or making ad hominem attacks. Who do you think will get the greatest number of votes from the electoral college?


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Okay, but an election isn’t decided with vague symbolism. Stop evading the question or making ad hominem attacks. Who do you think will get the greatest number of votes from the electoral college?



Freddie just because you choose to let others define how you view things, does not mean I am obligated to ignore additional elements of an equation. In fact I feel obligated to view as much of every picture as I possibly can. Obviously that's not something you can or wish to do. I would not dream of attempting to force you to look beyond the blinder's edges. As a reciprocal gesture I demand that you refrain from insisting that I wear those blinders which you do seem to love.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> In fact I feel obligated to view as much of every picture as I possibly can. Obviously that's not something you can or wish to do..


Here's quite the picture!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Freddie just because you choose to let others define how you view things, does not mean I am obligated to ignore additional elements of an equation. In fact I feel obligated to view as much of every picture as I possibly can. Obviously that's not something you can or wish to do. I would not dream of attempting to force you to look beyond the blinder's edges. As a reciprocal gesture I demand that you refrain from insisting that I wear those blinders which you do seem to love.



You speak in vague riddles. Perhaps if you were to explain how you think Trump is going to reverse the results of this election we might have something to talk about. Be specific.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Here's quite the picture!


Quite a picture indeed!

*@TeamSidney* - that must be Trump's wacko attorney Sidney Powell, right?

Um... waitaminute... @TeamSidney has seven followers... um.... 

Oh. Sidney Powell's handle is @SidneyPowell1

So - the source of that image is......?

....hmm... maybe that's not Twitter... maybe Instagram? Let me check....

...coming up empty. *Source?*

* * *

*Update:* Apparently it's a social media tool called "Parler" - never heard of it. Someone with more interest in this subject than am I might want to find it, install it, create an account, and check this out... But I've given this wacko more time tonight that I'd like to take back! :lmao:

Here's a blog post with a screenshot of that image....


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You speak in vague riddles. Perhaps if you were to explain how you think Trump is going to reverse the results of this election we might have something to talk about. Be specific.


Blinders and bafflement walk hand in hand. That is the purpose of the blinders.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Blinders and bafflement walk hand in hand. That is the purpose of the blinders.



Uh....sense; you make no. If you’re too scared to try to explain yourself, I understand.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Quite a picture indeed!
> 
> *@TeamSidney* - that must be Trump's wacko attorney Sidney Powell, right?
> 
> Um... waitaminute... @TeamSidney has seven followers... um....
> 
> Oh. Sidney Powell's handle is @SidneyPowell1
> 
> So - the source of that image is......?
> 
> ....hmm... maybe that's not Twitter... maybe Instagram? Let me check....
> 
> ...coming up empty. *Source?*
> 
> * * *
> 
> *Update:* Apparently it's a social media tool called "Parler" - never heard of it. Someone with more interest in this subject than am I might want to find it, install it, create an account, and check this out... But I've given this wacko more time tonight that I'd like to take back! :lmao:
> 
> Here's a blog post with a screenshot of that image....



I thought the dumps were supposed to be in the middle of the night. That sure looks like a daytime shot to me.


----------



## Macfury

No, you don't.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ....I understand.


----------



## Macfury

Same photo posted elsewhere. Do you still favour Twitter as your source for authoritative "tweets"?



CubaMark said:


> Apparently it's a social media tool called "Parler" - never heard of it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, you don't.



Enlighten me. This isn’t even an argument. It’s just contradiction.


----------



## Macfury

Given your grasp of U.S. politics, it's all you'll get from me. Better you should stick to spoonfeeding from CBC and CNN.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Enlighten me. This isn’t even an argument. It’s just contradiction.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Given your grasp of U.S. politics, it's all you'll get from me. Better you should stick to spoonfeeding from CBC and CNN.



You’re just too lazy to even try. Sad.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Wisconsin and Arizona make it official as Trump fails to stop vote certification in all six states where he contested his defeat

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wa...b-b59c-adb7153d10c2_story.html?outputType=amp

And no amount of squirming will change this. Money well spent, Trumpers. Keep on donating to that legal defence fund cause.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Even Newsmax is saying Biden won Arizona and Wisconsin. 



> Newsmax Calls Biden Winner in Arizona, Wisconsin
> 
> Newsmax is naming Joe Biden the winner of Arizona and Wisconsin, now that both states certified election results Monday showing he defeated President Donald Trump in the Nov. 3 election.
> 
> Arizona accounts for 11 electoral college votes. Biden is only the second Democrat in 70 years to win Arizona.
> 
> In the final tally, Biden won by 10,457 votes, 0.3 percent of the nearly 3.4 million ballots cast. Eleven Democratic electors will meet Dec. 14 to formally pledge Arizona’s electoral votes to Biden.
> 
> As for Wisconsin, with its 10 electoral votes hanging in the balance, Biden's victory there was confirmed Monday following a partial recount that only added to his 20,600-vote margin over Trump.
> 
> The president has promised to file a lawsuit seeking to undo the results.
> 
> After the election, Newsmax was the only major news organization not to call several states for Biden, recognizing that one of the contestants, President Trump, was seeking recounts with results as close as 1% or less.
> 
> These states also included Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania. Newsmax stated it would call those states after recounts and based on state certifications, and did so.
> 
> Newsmax has not called the presidential race itself, but expects to make a determination shortly after reviewing legal challenges by the Trump campaign and before the Electoral College meets in mid-December.


 https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/999368/18


----------



## Macfury

You're not even warm.


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> Apparently you do, and your intellectual laziness will allow for some fun surprises over the next week or so!


The election was four (4) weeks ago but Trump's evidence is always a week or so away.

Sure.

Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> The election was four (4) weeks ago but Trump's evidence is always a week or so away.
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Craig



Exactement, as the French would say.


----------



## Macfury

Enjoy yourselves, guys--you're not even paying attention!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury either won’t explain himself or he can’t explain himself. I’d go with the latter.


----------



## Macfury

Go with whatever you want! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury either won’t explain himself or he can’t explain himself. I’d go with the latter.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Even Barr admits there is no election fraud. The Attorney General admits it even if you can’t, naysayers. 



> Barr breaks with Trump on claims of fraud
> 
> BY BRETT SAMUELS
> 
> Attorney General William Barr on Tuesday said there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election, undercutting President Trump's repeated baseless claims to the contrary.
> 
> "To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election," Barr told The Associated Press in an interview.
> 
> Barr's comments are his first about the integrity of the election since it took place one month ago, and they mark the latest rebuke of Trump's efforts to undermine the results. The attorney general is the highest-ranking administration official and Republican to date to contradict Trump's claims about the election.
> 
> Barr told the AP, a wire service whose stories run in newspapers across the country, that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been following up on specific complaints following the election but have yet to discover anything on a scale that would overturn President-elect Joe Biden's victory....


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thehil...barr-breaks-with-trump-on-claims-of-fraud?amp


----------



## Macfury

This braying demonstrates why there is no point in discussing these issues with you. You're a day late and a dollar short as always. As per CBS news:

https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1333937356185997312



> “Some media outlets have incorrectly reported that the Department has concluded its investigation of election fraud and announced an affirmative finding of no fraud in the election. That is not what the Associated Press reported nor what the Attorney General stated. The Department will continue to receive and vigorously pursue all specific and credible allegations of fraud as expeditiously as possible.”





Freddie_Biff said:


> Even Barr admits there is no election fraud. The Attorney General admits it even if you can’t, naysayers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thehil...barr-breaks-with-trump-on-claims-of-fraud?amp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This braying demonstrates why there is no point in discussing these issues with you. You're a day late and a dollar short as always. As per CBS news:
> 
> https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1333937356185997312



If you’re too much of a coward to actually defend your views, it’s okay. I understand. You go on believing in 44 (the one the rest of us call 45).


----------



## Macfury

Not even willing to admit you screwed up on such a simple point of fact. The moment you string two words together you generate an error code.



Freddie_Biff said:


> If you’re too much of a coward to actually defend your views, it’s okay. I understand. You go on believing in 44 (the one the rest of us call 45).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Not even willing to admit you screwed up on such a simple point of fact. The moment you string two words together you generate an error code.



What a coward. Well, you do you.


----------



## CubaMark

*I'll just leave this here, it's bound to come in handy shortly....* 









(Lucky Ducky)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the hits just keep coming.


----------



## Macfury

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure is quiet around here lately. How’s that election fraud challenge coming along? President-elect Biden would really like to move on soon.


----------



## Macfury

He'll be moving along alright.

How are things going with Kamala? Has she resigned from the Senate yet



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure is quiet around here lately. How’s that election fraud challenge coming along? President-elect Biden would really like to move on soon.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Has Trump’s team had even one success yet with the 36 or so lawsuits they’ve filed? Do we have any more of Giuliano’s “star witnesses” to look forward to?


----------



## Macfury

You have your nose up the ass of the mainstream media. You won't find the answers there.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You have your nose up the ass of the mainstream media. You won't find the answers there.



You don’t have any answers period.


----------



## Macfury

Thankfully, you have the CBC to keep you warm at night. Stay informed! Stay safe! (Sweet dreams!)


Freddie_Biff said:


> You don’t have any answers period.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Better than Breitbart and Newsmax.


----------



## CubaMark

*Related: *_I beg your pardon? Does Trump really plan to absolve himself and his family? _(The Guardian UK)


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Exactement, as the French would say.


----------



## Macfury

You've nailed it Freddie! As CM's lapdog, you're a pistol


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So now Rudy has Covid19. Imagine that, after all the safety protocols he’s been following too.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> So now Rudy has Covid19. Imagine that, after all the safety protocols he’s been following too.


Not to worry, Freddie, it's just like the flu, after all


----------



## Macfury

Not everybody cowers in fear about COVID the way you do.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So now Rudy has Covid19. Imagine that, after all the safety protocols he’s been following too.


----------



## Macfury

Worse than some flus, and not as bad as the thing you publicly soil your pants over day after day,



CubaMark said:


> Not to worry, Freddie, it's just like the flu, after all


----------



## WCraig

I'm sure Rudy will get the $10 million treatment just like Trump. I mean, Trump wouldn't leave him to fight it like the rest of the population has to. Right?

Craig


----------



## Macfury

Which treatment do you get for $10 million?



WCraig said:


> I'm sure Rudy will get the $10 million treatment just like Trump. I mean, Trump wouldn't leave him to fight it like the rest of the population has to. Right?
> 
> Craig


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> I'm sure Rudy will get the $10 million treatment just like Trump. I mean, Trump wouldn't leave him to fight it like the rest of the population has to. Right?
> 
> Craig



Hard to say. Trump really doesn’t give a ****e about anyone but himself, but he does need Rudy to represent him in legal matters. That’s also going to be hard for Rudy if he has to isolate himself in response to the CoVid. We shall see.


----------



## Macfury

So essentially you have no opinion.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hard to say. Trump really doesn’t give a ****e about anyone but himself, but he does need Rudy to represent him in legal matters. That’s also going to be hard for Rudy if he has to isolate himself in response to the CoVid. We shall see.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Hard to say. Trump really doesn’t give a ****e about anyone but himself, but he does need Rudy to represent him in legal matters. That’s also going to be hard for Rudy if he has to isolate himself in response to the CoVid. We shall see.



If those face diapers are as effective as y'all claim, why would he need to isolate himself?


----------



## Macfury

CM and Freddie "follow thuh science."



eMacMan said:


> If those face diapers are as effective as y'all claim, why would he need to isolate himself?


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> If those face diapers are as effective as y'all claim, why would he need to isolate himself?


Same reason you probably didn't stop wearing a seatbelt when airbags came along.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Same reason you probably didn't stop wearing a seatbelt when airbags came along.


You still wear a seatbelt?


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> You still wear a seatbelt?


I admit, not often when I'm at my desk.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> I admit, not often when I'm at my desk.


----------



## Macfury

Question of the day: Can a state executive ignore legislation when setting election rules?

According to the wording of the US Constitution, no they can not.


----------



## CubaMark

*Well, this is rather disturbing...*

*Florida police raided home of Rebekah Jones, former health employee who said she was fired for refusing to manipulate COVID-19 data*

Florida police have raided the home of Rebekah Jones, the former health department employee who said she was fired for refusing to manipulate coronavirus case data. Jones documented the raid in a series of tweets published Monday, December 7.

They seized her computer, and all other electronic devices.

She tweets:

There will be no update today. At 8:30 am this morning, state police came into my house and took all my hardware and tech. They were serving a warrant on my computer after DOH filed a complaint. They pointed a gun in my face. They pointed guns at my kids.

They took my phone and the computer I use every day to post the case numbers in Florida, and school cases for the entire country. They took evidence of corruption at the state level. They claimed it was about a security breach. This was DeSantis. He sent the gestapo.

This is what happens to scientists who do their job honestly. This is what happens to people who speak truth to power. I tell them my husband and my two children are upstairs… and THEN one of them draws his gun. On my children. This is Desantis' Florida.

If Desantis thought pointing a gun in my face was a good way to get me to shut up, he's about to learn just how wrong he was. I'll have a new computer tomorrow. And then I'm going to get back to work. If you want to help, my website is still at floridacovidaction.com.​

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement says:

This morning FDLE served a search warrant at a residence on Centerville Court in Tallahassee, the home of Rebekah Jones. FDLE began an investigation November 10, 2020 after receiving a complaint from the Department of Health regarding unauthorized access to a Department of Health messaging system which is part of an emergency alert system, to be used for emergencies only. Agents believe someone at the residence on Centerville Court illegally accessed the system.

When agents arrived, they knocked on the door and called Ms. Jones in an attempt to minimize disruption to the family. Ms. Jones refused to come to the door for 20 minutes and hung-up on agents.

After several attempts and verbal notifications that law enforcement officers were there to serve a legal search warrant, Ms. Jones eventually came to the door and allowed agents to enter.

Our investigation is active. As in all cases, our role is to determine the facts of what happened and a State Attorney determines whether or not charges are filed.​
(BoingBoing)​
*Related: *

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilN0GoV17Ic[/ame]


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *Well, this is rather disturbing...*


You never care when this happens to people you don't support.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You never care when this happens to people you don't support.


I don't "support" this person either. Until today, I'd never heard of her.

To which other people are you referring, that this sort of thing happens to? Be specific.


----------



## Macfury

If you don't support her, why are you sharing this?



CubaMark said:


> I don't "support" this person either. Until today, I'd never heard of her.
> 
> To which other people are you referring, that this sort of thing happens to? Be specific.


----------



## CubaMark

This is the "American Political Thread". 

There are allegations that this person is the subject of politically-motivated efforts to suppress her efforts to publish what she believes are the actual (higher) numbers of Covid-19 infections, illnesses, deaths.

One would think that you could have worked that out for yourself....


----------



## Macfury

1) What if she hacked the emergency alert system? 
2) Nobody has stopped her from "publishing" her numbers. 
3) She hasn't been arrested.



CubaMark said:


> This is the "American Political Thread".
> 
> There are allegations that this person is the subject of politically-motivated efforts to suppress her efforts to publish what she believes are the actual (higher) numbers of Covid-19 infections, illnesses, deaths.
> 
> One would think that you could have worked that out for yourself....


----------



## WCraig

> The US Supreme Court has rejected a challenge against President-elect Joe Biden's victory in Pennsylvania.
> Republicans in the state wanted to overturn certification of the result, but justices rejected the request in a one sentence ruling.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55243008

Is that now 51 or 52 legal challenges on behalf of Trump that have been tossed or withdrawn from the courts?

Meanwhile, Trump has grifted $200,000,000 from his mentally-challenged supporters. It appears his main motivation in 'continuing the fight' is to allow him to bilk even more money from those incapable of accepting reality. And, if he can provoke an armed insurrection and install himself as President-for-life, that would be a bonus!

Craig


----------



## Macfury

WCraig, the Supreme Court did not "reject a challenge" in _Kelly vs. Pennsylvania,_ it only denied emergency injunctive relief. If you keep relying on mainstream news sources you will continue to make this sort of error. 

You may also find it difficult to keep up with the number of cases at the county, state, federal and US Supreme Court level brought by a wide a range of plaintiffs. In most cases, the relief they seek cannot be granted at lower court level, but they must exhaust those courts before they can be heard. The "running total" of court losses are not losses, just steps up the judicial ladder to the level at which they wish to be heard.

I see that Kamala Harris still hasn't resigned her Senate seat.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I see that Kamala Harris still hasn't resigned her Senate seat.


Out of curiosity, is that expected? If so why? I'm assuming because she should be busy with transition activities. And that she wouldn't so the seat isn't backfilled?


----------



## Macfury

Obama resigned his seat in mid-November. It allows the governor some time to appoint a replacement. In Harris' case, I suspect she is hedging.



polywog said:


> Out of curiosity, is that expected? If so why? I'm assuming because she should be busy with transition activities. And that she wouldn't so the seat isn't backfilled?


----------



## 18m2

I bet they will sell to the supporters and detractors but for different reasons.

Tackie ... tackie ... tackie

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01G988ZRG/ref=detail_main_image_block_ivx_share


----------



## eMacMan

I was thinking maybe she was waiting for the next governor before resigning. Unfortunately for Californians, Newsom's term carries over as he was elected in 2018. So clearly that is not her reason.

IMO Once these bums survive the primary and are actually running for higher office, they should resign their seat in Congress or the Senate, thereby allowing someone else from their party to run for their seat in the general election.

If they lose so what, they are out of a job. Just like the millions of Americans whose livelihoods they joyfully obliterated this past spring.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Obama resigned his seat in mid-November. It allows the governor some time to appoint a replacement. In Harris' case, I suspect she is hedging.


And what happened after he resigned his seat?

Gov. Newsom has his own challenges right now. 

Inferring that she's not resigning her seat under some arbitrary timetable is no admission that the presidential election is in contestation.


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> I was thinking maybe she was waiting for the next governor before resigning. Unfortunately for Californians, Newsom's term carries over as he was elected in 2018. So clearly that is not her reason.
> 
> IMO Once these bums survive the primary and are actually running for higher office, they should resign their seat in Congress or the Senate, thereby allowing someone else from their party to run for their seat in the general election.
> 
> If they lose so what, they are out of a job. Just like the millions of Americans whose livelihoods they joyfully obliterated this past spring.


I agree 100% with this post.

Not sure what is going on. lol


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> WCraig, the Supreme Court did not "reject a challenge" in _Kelly vs. Pennsylvania,_ it only denied emergency injunctive relief. If you keep relying on mainstream news sources you will continue to make this sort of error.
> 
> You may also find it difficult to keep up with the number of cases at the county, state, federal and US Supreme Court level brought by a wide a range of plaintiffs. In most cases, the relief they seek cannot be granted at lower court level, but they must exhaust those courts before they can be heard. The "running total" of court losses are not losses, just steps up the judicial ladder to the level at which they wish to be heard.
> 
> I see that Kamala Harris still hasn't resigned her Senate seat.



In other words, Trump and his team are getting their asses kicked, and Macfury continues to deny reality.


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> In other words, Trump and his team are getting their asses kicked, and Macfury continues to deny reality.


It's true.

But also Trump despite being an abhorrent human being has succeeded in what he does best.

1 - Created doubt where their shouldn't be
2 - Some how shored up support despite losing?
3 - Raise at ton of money that can be used for almost whatever
4 - Potentially scared the democrats away from investigating him (Biden has already said he doesn't want to spend his presidency investigating him)

I hate the guy but wow. He really should be called on everything he does. But he doesn't he just keeps going without consequence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> It's true.
> 
> But also Trump despite being an abhorrent human being has succeeded in what he does best.
> 
> 1 - Created doubt where their shouldn't be
> 2 - Some how shored up support despite losing?
> 3 - Raise at ton of money that can be used for almost whatever
> 4 - Potentially scared the democrats away from investigating him (Biden has already said he doesn't want to spend his presidency investigating him)
> 
> I hate the guy but wow. He really should be called on everything he does. But he doesn't he just keeps going without consequence.



The Trump followers really have all the characteristics of a cult, don’t they? And it is very difficult a cult member that’s been immersed in it for four years or more.


----------



## Macfury

I take no responsibility for the way that post affects your perception of reality.



Freddie_Biff said:


> In other words, Trump and his team are getting their asses kicked, and Macfury continues to deny reality.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I take no responsibility for the way that post affects your perception of reality.



You take no responsibility for anything. Just like your hero.


----------



## Macfury

I could say the same about any arbitrary deadlines that precede the only real deadline for inaugurating the president, which occurs in January. 

So Harris waiting beyond an arbitrary deadlin isn't proof, but it is evidence. I suspect that Harris does not even expect to be vice president.



smashedbanana said:


> Inferring that she's not resigning her seat under some arbitrary timetable is no admission that the presidential election is in contestation.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I could say the same about any arbitrary deadlines that precede the only real deadline for inaugurating the president, which occurs in January.
> 
> So Harris waiting beyond an arbitrary deadlin isn't proof, but it is evidence. I suspect that Harris does not even expect to be vice president.



You’ve been drinking your own bath water again, Macfury. Anybody with a functioning brain knows who will be the President and Vice President on January 20, and it ain’t Trump and Pence.


----------



## Macfury

Trump was already investigated relentlessly for four years without evidence an with nothing to show for it.

The mid-term elections also contained some trial-run voter fraud which Trump noted at the time. I believe he did not leave this election to be defrauded in the same way. 

For the record, are you saying that Trump did not obtain enough legal votes in any of the states in question — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, Nevada — to have won them. Not even one?




smashedbanana said:


> It's true.
> 
> But also Trump despite being an abhorrent human being has succeeded in what he does best.
> 
> 1 - Created doubt where their shouldn't be
> 2 - Some how shored up support despite losing?
> 3 - Raise at ton of money that can be used for almost whatever
> 4 - Potentially scared the democrats away from investigating him (Biden has already said he doesn't want to spend his presidency investigating him)
> 
> I hate the guy but wow. He really should be called on everything he does. But he doesn't he just keeps going without consequence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Trump was already investigated relentlessly for four years without evidence an with nothing to show for it.
> 
> The mid-term elections also contained some trial-run voter fraud which Trump noted at the time. I believe he did not leave this election to be defrauded in the same way.
> 
> For the record, are you saying that Trump did not obtain enough legal votes in any of the states in question — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, Nevada — to have won them. Not even one?



Yes.

And if Trump’s people were innocent, why did so many end up in jail? Just a bunch of flies circling ****e.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> The Trump followers really have all the characteristics of a cult, don’t they? And it is very difficult a cult member that’s been immersed in it for four years or more.


That can really be said for both sides of the table. Which side was it who was blocking free speech, trying to shut down any event where someone speaking disagreed with the other sides ideology, burning books, etc etc etc. There is no one side that is free and clear on the "right path". There is littler tolerance and I would say even less on the side that claims to be so inclusive and tolerant of all people and walks of life... if they agree with them! You could call this blind faith and both the left and right have it in different ways.


----------



## Macfury

Who was jailed Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes.
> 
> And if Trump’s people were innocent, why did so many end up in jail? Just a bunch of flies circling ****e.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Trump was already investigated relentlessly for four years without evidence an with nothing to show for it.


That is absolutely not true.



> The mid-term elections also contained some trial-run voter fraud which Trump noted at the time. I believe he did not leave this election to be defrauded in the same way.


And he made claims in 2016. And if you golfed with him he'd probably question those results too.



> For the record, are you saying that Trump did not obtain enough legal votes in any of the states in question — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, Nevada — to have won them. Not even one?


Not sure the question. Do I think the races were close enough to justify recounts? Yes, absolutely. It's part of the process. Is fraud a forgone conclusion for Trump's loss? No. He screamed murder immediately when there isn't even a body.


----------



## smashedbanana

I was sort of with you until this.



> I suspect that Harris does not even expect to be vice president.


Of course she does.

She probably even expects to be president in the next 2 years.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Not sure the question. Do I think the races were close enough to justify recounts? Yes, absolutely. It's part of the process. Is fraud a forgone conclusion for Trump's loss? No. He screamed murder immediately when there isn't even a body.


Supposing you could demonstrate that the voter rolls contained enough non-citizens, people not living in the state, people who could not vote because they were under age -- to change the outcome of the election by significant margins?

What if you could show that signature matches on ballots alone were not valid by multiple margins of error?

What would happen if you simply recounted all ballots without discounting these?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who was jailed Freddie?



Jeez, you really should try to keep up. 

Trump associates who have been sent to prison or faced criminal charges

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnew...ison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219


----------



## Macfury

You're an intellectual embarrassment Freddie. So two Republicans on charges that had nothing to do with Trump. Nice going!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Jeez, you really should try to keep up.
> 
> Trump associates who have been sent to prison or faced criminal charges
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnew...ison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're an intellectual embarrassment Freddie. So two Republicans on charges that had nothing to do with Trump. Nice going!



You’re an embarrassment to these forums, Macfury, and have been for quite some time. Clearly you didn’t actually read the link nor have you been keeping up with the news. And you think you’re the smartest guy here. Well maybe except for your hero FeXL. Sad. It’s incredible that you can’t accept Trump’s loss by over 6 million votes in the popular vote and Biden’s landslide 306-232 victory in the electoral college, not to mention the 50 some lawsuits that Trump has already lost. You really do live in an alt-right fantasy world.


----------



## Macfury

You're looking at this through a squishy emotional lens, Freddie. Your education has failed you.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re an embarrassment to these forums, Macfury, and have been for quite some time. Clearly you didn’t actually read the link nor have you been keeping up with the news. And you think you’re the smartest guy here. Well maybe except for your hero FeXL. Sad. It’s incredible that you can’t accept Trump’s loss by over 6 million votes in the popular vote and Biden’s landslide 306-232 victory in the electoral college, not to mention the 50 some lawsuits that Trump has already lost. You really do live in an alt-right fantasy world.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're looking at this through a squishy emotional lens, Freddie. Your education has failed you.



Sense. You make no.


----------



## CubaMark

Further on the Florida scientist who appears to be the target of politically-motivated police actions (Rebekah Jones)... so it turns out the the judge who signed the search warrant which led the armed cops to intimidate her family, point guns at her young children, etc.... that judge was appointed to the bench just a few weeks ago by Florida Gov. DeSantis. Not a coincidence at all...

*Meanwhile....*


*Florida GOP Lawyer Quits Over Raid on Fired COVID Data Scientist’s Home*

A lifelong Republican has resigned his appointment to a state panel that picks judges in protest over a raid of a fired COVID data scientist’s home and Gov. Ron DeSantis’ handling of “public access to truthful data,” the Tampa Bay Times reports. 

Ron Filipkowski, a former state and federal prosecutor whom DeSantis appointed to the 12th Circuit Judicial Nominating Commission, quit his post Tuesday after reading the search warrant affidavit for the seizure of Rebekah Jones’ computers and phones. 

Jones says she was fired after refusing to manipulate state coronavirus data, and she now runs an alternative website to Florida’s COVID dashboard.

“The recent events regarding public access to truthful data on the pandemic, and the specific treatment of Rebekah Jones has made the issue a legal one rather than just medical,” Filipkowski said in a letter to DeSantis’ general counsel. “...I no longer wish to serve the current government of Florida in any capacity.”​
(The Daily Beast)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I know two or three people around here who will call this FAKE NEWS because it comes from the MSM, but the fact is the US is seeing more than 3000 deaths from CoVid now PER DAY—more than we’re killed on 9/11. Something to consider.


Coronavirus live updates: U.S. records more than 3,000 deaths in a single day, a new high

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wa...navirus-covid-live-updates-us/?outputType=amp

Thank you for your leadership in this matter, Mr. Trump. You set a stellar example for your people.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Supposing you could demonstrate that the voter rolls contained enough non-citizens, people not living in the state, people who could not vote because they were under age -- to change the outcome of the election by significant margins?
> 
> What if you could show that signature matches on ballots alone were not valid by multiple margins of error?
> 
> What would happen if you simply recounted all ballots without discounting these?


Why would this only be the case in certain states, but not others? I don't hear a peep about Florida for instance. What if Trump won Florida for exactly those reasons?

And if it's so simple to commit wide spread, wide scale voter fraud, why only in this election? What's the change or changes that allowed this to happen, and who made the changes? 

No one seems to mention all the other positions that were up for a vote on the same ticket?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Exactly. Trump doesn’t seem to be able to accept that someone would vote Biden at the top of the ticket and then the Republican candidate further down on the same ballot. What this seems to indicate is that there were a lot of Republican voters who were not impressed with Trump. Maybe acting like a narcissistic asshole and a dictator who punishes disloyalty over the past four years had something to do with that.


----------



## Macfury

There are separate challenges occurring that fall into three barrels:

1) Old-fashioned cheating (pulling ballot batches from under tables in the dark of night, throwing ballots in trash, backdating late votes). 
2) Legislative cheating. Unconstitutional changes in voting laws that were not voted on by legislature.
3) Using fraudulent voter information: underage, non-resident (moved, address is a post-office, etc), non-citizen, dead. Easily demonstrated by matching voter list against other lists -- or simply removing ballots with no signatures or impossible metrics: 1,000 sequential ballots with same birth date of 1900/01/01, ballot submitted by 140-year-old, ballot returned before being mailed out, etc. 
4) Use of a specific voting machine made by Dominion. The Dominion machines were being used earlier, in the mid-terms and Trump already called out the use of those machines. Heaviest use of those machines in this election were in swing states. There is not one specific case involving these machines but several, brought by different plaintiffs. In Georgia, one argument has been that Governor Kemp, a Republican, knowingly allowed the machines to favour certain Democrats in exchange for his own selected victories (and cash) on the state level. Some plaintiffs call for all Dominion voting machines to be forensically audited nationwide, regardless of the outcome.

Here is a demonstration of a Dominion voting machine in Coffee County, Georgia. Most salient part is near the end:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.








polywog said:


> Why would this only be the case in certain states, but not others? I don't hear a peep about Florida for instance. What if Trump won Florida for exactly those reasons?
> 
> And if it's so simple to commit wide spread, wide scale voter fraud, why only in this election? What's the change or changes that allowed this to happen, and who made the changes?
> 
> No one seems to mention all the other positions that were up for a vote on the same ticket?


----------



## Macfury

The Daily Beast just scalped and abridged the article from the Tampa Bay Times:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/flori...signs-over-treatment-of-florida-data-analyst/


> “What’s the crime? The crime is hacking into an email server to tell people to tell the truth?,’' he said. “That’s not a horrible crime, if it’s a crime at all.”


:lmao: Yeah, that _is_ a crime! 




CubaMark said:


> *Florida GOP Lawyer Quits Over Raid on Fired COVID Data Scientist’s Home*
> 
> A lifelong Republican has resigned his appointment to a state panel that picks judges in protest over a raid of a fired COVID data scientist’s home and Gov. Ron DeSantis’ handling of “public access to truthful data,” the Tampa Bay Times reports.
> 
> Ron Filipkowski, a former state and federal prosecutor whom DeSantis appointed to the 12th Circuit Judicial Nominating Commission, quit his post Tuesday after reading the search warrant affidavit for the seizure of Rebekah Jones’ computers and phones.​


​


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> I know two or three people around here who will call this FAKE NEWS because it comes from the MSM, but the fact is the US is seeing more than 3000 deaths from CoVid now PER DAY—more than we’re killed on 9/11. Something to consider.
> 
> Coronavirus live updates: U.S. records more than 3,000 deaths in a single day, a new high
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/09/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/%3foutputType=amp
> 
> Thank you for your leadership in this matter, Mr. Trump. You set a stellar example for your people.


Exaggeration never helps a cause. US averaged just over 2400/day over the past week. Have not been keeping track of the state breakdowns over that time frame. However the last I checked the states that were being chastised for not mandating masks and anti-social distancing were all under the national average for deaths, North Dakota being the only exception. 

One likely conclusion is that masks and anti-social distancing are actually contributing to the death tolls. Remembering the CDC has admitted to lumping all pneumonia cases as Covid, even if they happen to be caused by influenza or bacteria. It seems likely that many of those deaths are mask induced bacterial pneumonia, conveniently mislabeled as Covid.

But I got a sure-fire cure for you Freddie. I know numbers make you dizzy, but as you are under 60, here is something to consider. As of yesterday 435 Canadians under 60 have died of Covid and that's over what should be divided into two seasons. About 309,000 people in that age group have tested positive. So the odds of you dying from Covid should you happen to test positive are 0.14% Now the odds of you testing positive seem to be at most 3%. Leaving you at around .0042% chance of testing positive and dying from Covid.

You can possibly reduce that terrifying risk ever so slightly by demanding the Pffeizer vaccine. While they have kept this under wraps, whistleblowers claim the odds of an adverse reaction, referred to as an immune response, hover at around 21%. Never mind that the immune response is almost always a good deal more severe than actually getting Covid. Seems to me you should be demanding that you be vaccinated immediately. By Freddie Math nothing could possibly go wrong. 

*[Font: Sarcasm]*Do keep in mind that Fauci is so certain the vaccine is 100% effective that you will still have to stay at least 201cm from everyone including your wife and wear a mask wherever you go. Strikes me that's exactly the sort of freedom you deserve. Whatever you do don't let someone pass less 200cm away, as according to the lamestream that is certain death. Even if you've both had the jab and are both wearing masks.*[/Font: Sarcasm]*


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> :lmao: Yeah, that _is_ a crime!


Your point? The earlier reporting had already identified the alleged crime (hacking a mail server). Jones denies doing it:

*‘I’m Not A Hacker’: Former Florida COVID Data Scientist Rebekah Jones On Allegations Leading To Police Raid At Her Home*

...Jones told CNN that she hadn’t improperly accessed any state messaging system and that she lost access to her government computer accounts after she was removed from her position more than six months ago....

“I’m not a hacker,” Jones said. She added that the language in the message that authorities said was sent was “not the way I talk,” and contained errors she would not make.

“The number of deaths that the person used wasn’t even right,” Jones said. “They were actually under by about 430 deaths. I would never round down 430 deaths.”

(CBS Miami)​
Funny how you folks will believe Biden personally (like Santa Clause) flew around the country on election night on a magic carpet or something, tossing magical ballots into counting bins to steal the election, but you have a hard time believing the Holy Leader, Most Righteous, Governor DeSantis of Florida would engage in this kind of intimidation of someone who became a public nemesis to his administration's attempts to downplay the seriousness of the covid-19 pandemic.

Funny, that.


----------



## Macfury

It's _Santa Claus_, and no he did not personally travel to each state to corrupt the vote. At this point in his cognitive decline, I'm not sure he was even aware of what was being done on his behalf.

And I neither believe or disbelieve the story of that woman hacking the server. That's up to the courts. I only point out that the Republican you commend for resigning _believes she hacked the server._



CubaMark said:


> Funny how you folks will believe Biden personally (like Santa Clause) flew around the country on election night on a magic carpet or something, tossing magical ballots into counting bins to steal the election, but you have a hard time believing the Holy Leader, Most Righteous, Governor DeSantis of Florida would engage in this kind of intimidation of someone who became a public nemesis to his administration's attempts to downplay the seriousness of the covid-19 pandemic.
> 
> Funny, that.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> 2) Legislative cheating. Unconstitutional changes in voting laws that were not voted on by legislature.


If we're talking about AG Paxton's filing... he's on his way to lunch with Trump. That smells a little funny to me, but we'll see where that goes.



Macfury said:


> 4) Use of a specific voting machine made by Dominion. The Dominion machines were being used earlier, in the mid-terms and Trump already called out the use of those machines. Heaviest use of those machines in this election were in swing states. There is not one specific case involving these machines but several, brought by different plaintiffs. In Georgia, one argument has been that Governor Kemp, a Republican, knowingly allowed the machines to favour certain Democrats in exchange for his own selected victories (and cash) on the state level. Some plaintiffs call for all Dominion voting machines to be forensically audited nationwide, regardless of the outcome.


This is interesting. People were all over Diebold once upon a time with similar allegations. At least it sounds like the Dominion systems *can* be audited, which is a key difference. Interested to see where that leads.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I only point out that the Republican you commend for resigning _believes she hacked the server._


You can't assume that from what he stated to the reporter. He could just as well be referring to what is alleged in the search warrant.

Sloppy reasoning there, MF.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> This is interesting. People were all over Diebold once upon a time with similar allegations. At least it sounds like the Dominion systems *can* be audited, which is a key difference. Interested to see where that leads.


Dominion is a successor to Diebold. Its patents are partially held by a Chinese company. All machines are to be certified prior to an election (they were not certified in many locations) and supposed to be air-gapped (no Internet connection). Software was updated remotely the night before the election (demonstrably not air-gapped). Chain of custody is required to certify an election. In many cases, USB keys went missing, taken offsite, etc. 

The machines have significant flaws in that they allow operators to over-ride virtually any data.

While the machines can be audited, no significant auditing has been allowed. Michigan Attorney General recently ordered all machines wiped and that was prevented by a court order. Only a team in Antrim county has forensically audited a number of units there this week, but no report as yet.

Governor Kemp in Georgia has also attempted to wipe the machines, ostensibly in preparation for the January Senate runoff.


----------



## Macfury

Your reasoning is so flawed you hadn't even followed the article to its source publication!

We'll settle on "he quit because he does not believe it is illegal to hack into a server." Crazy, but there you have it.



CubaMark said:


> You can't assume that from what he stated to the reporter. He could just as well be referring to what is alleged in the search warrant.
> 
> Sloppy reasoning there, MF.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> We'll settle on "he quit because he does not believe it is illegal to hack into a server." Crazy, but there you have it.


Well - there's some FoxNews-level disinformation you're tossing out there, MF.

Filipkowski quite clearly stated that he was quitting because he believes DeSantis was involved in the political persecution of Jones.

Gaslight all you might, it won't work on me.


----------



## Macfury

...and that persecution consists of sending law enforcement in response to hacking a government database. Got it. 



CubaMark said:


> Filipkowski quite clearly stated that he was quitting because he believes DeSantis was involved in the political persecution of Jones.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Exaggeration never helps a cause. US averaged just over 2400/day over the past week. Have not been keeping track of the state breakdowns over that time frame. However the last I checked the states that were being chastised for not mandating masks and anti-social distancing were all under the national average for deaths, North Dakota being the only exception.
> 
> One likely conclusion is that masks and anti-social distancing are actually contributing to the death tolls. Remembering the CDC has admitted to lumping all pneumonia cases as Covid, even if they happen to be caused by influenza or bacteria. It seems likely that many of those deaths are mask induced bacterial pneumonia, conveniently mislabeled as Covid.
> 
> But I got a sure-fire cure for you Freddie. I know numbers make you dizzy, but as you are under 60, here is something to consider. As of yesterday 435 Canadians under 60 have died of Covid and that's over what should be divided into two seasons. About 309,000 people in that age group have tested positive. So the odds of you dying from Covid should you happen to test positive are 0.14% Now the odds of you testing positive seem to be at most 3%. Leaving you at around .0042% chance of testing positive and dying from Covid.
> 
> You can possibly reduce that terrifying risk ever so slightly by demanding the Pffeizer vaccine. While they have kept this under wraps, whistleblowers claim the odds of an adverse reaction, referred to as an immune response, hover at around 21%. Never mind that the immune response is almost always a good deal more severe than actually getting Covid. Seems to me you should be demanding that you be vaccinated immediately. By Freddie Math nothing could possibly go wrong.
> 
> *[Font: Sarcasm]*Do keep in mind that Fauci is so certain the vaccine is 100% effective that you will still have to stay at least 201cm from everyone including your wife and wear a mask wherever you go. Strikes me that's exactly the sort of freedom you deserve. Whatever you do don't let someone pass less 200cm away, as according to the lamestream that is certain death. Even if you've both had the jab and are both wearing masks.*[/Font: Sarcasm]*



I’m surprised you can’t just do a little more research and learn about things like herd immunity. Now if you’re an anti-masker (and it sounds like you are) there’s not much anyone can do to convince you otherwise. However, there’s something you can do to help others: WEAR A DAMN MASK. It’s not going to kill you and it might save someone else’s life and health. 

Try this article: Yes, the mask stays on after you get vaccinated. Here’s why. 

 https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2...ys-on-after-you-get-vaccinated-heres-why.html


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan has been talking about her immunity since this thing started. Did you just discover it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m surprised you can’t just do a little more research and learn about things like herd immunity. Now if you’re an anti-masker (and it sounds like you are) there’s not much anyone can do to convince you otherwise. However, there’s something you can do to help others: WEAR A DAMN MASK. It’s not going to kill you and it might save someone else’s life and health.
> 
> Try this article: Yes, the mask stays on after you get vaccinated. Here’s why.
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2...ys-on-after-you-get-vaccinated-heres-why.html


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> eMacMan has been talking about her immunity since this thing started. Did you just discover it?



Her immunity or herd immunity?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This is how you do it. This country can breathe easier and relax restrictions because they’ve earned it. 




> WorldNews
> 
> By trusting in its scientists, Australia is down to zero new COVID-19 cases
> 
> 'Regardless of who you vote for, most Australians would agree their leaders have a real care for their constituents and a following of science'
> 
> The Sydney Opera House has reopened. Almost 40,000 spectators attended the city’s rugby league grand final. Workers are being urged to return to their offices.
> 
> Welcome to Australia, a pandemic success story.
> 
> The nation of 26 million is close to eliminating community transmission of the coronavirus, having defeated a second wave just as infections surge again in Europe and the United States.
> 
> No cases were reported on the island continent Thursday, and only seven since Saturday outside of travellers in hotel quarantine. Eighteen patients are in the hospital with COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. One is in an intensive care unit. Melbourne, the epicentre of Australia’s outbreak which recently emerged from lockdown, has not reported a case since Oct. 30.
> 
> Meanwhile, in the United States, 52,049 people are hospitalized and 10,445 are in the ICU, according to the Covid Tracking Project, a volunteer effort to document the pandemic. America’s daily new cases topped 100,000 on Wednesday and its death toll exceeds 233,000, a staggering figure even accounting for its greater population than Australia, which has recorded 907 deaths.
> 
> This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below.
> 
> “I never thought we would really get to zero, which is amazing,” said Sharon Lewin, the Melbourne-based director of the Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity, which provided forecasts in February that formed the basis of the Australian government’s response. “I’ve been going out nonstop, booking restaurants, shopping, getting my nails done and my hair cut.”
> 
> As North America, Europe, India, Brazil and other regions and countries struggle to bring tens of thousands of daily infections under control, Australia provides a real-time road map for democracies to manage the pandemic. Along with New Zealand, the experience also shows that success in containing the virus isn’t limited to East Asian states (Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan) or those with authoritarian leaders (China, Vietnam).
> 
> Several practical reasons contributed to Australia’s success, experts say. The country chose to quickly and tightly seal its borders, a step some others, notably in Europe, did not take. Health officials rapidly built up the manpower to track down and isolate outbreaks. And unlike the U.S. approach, every one of Australia’s states either shut their domestic borders or severely limited movement for interstate, and in some cases intrastate, travellers.
> 
> Perhaps most importantly, though, leaders from across the ideological spectrum convinced Australians to take the pandemic seriously early on and prepared them to give up civil liberties they had never lost before, even during two world wars.
> 
> This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below.
> 
> “We told the public: ‘This is serious; we want your cooperation,’ ” said Marylouise McLaws, a Sydney-based epidemiologist at the University of New South Wales and World Health Organization adviser.
> 
> A lack of partisan rancour increased the effectiveness of the message, McLaws said in an interview.....


 https://nationalpost.com/news/worl...cTEKgmJyrp0qQj7jL_omiY7jvQBJPF4P4bSb8W5Cllspo


----------



## Macfury

You blew it again. Don't you read these articles before posting them?

Trump tried to close the country's borders, but Democrats fought him every step of the way. In Canada, Trudeau refused to effectively shut borders. We were kneecapped from the start by leftist knuckleheads.



> Several practical reasons contributed to Australia’s success, experts say.* The country chose to quickly and tightly seal its borders, a step some others, notably in Europe, did not take*. Health officials rapidly built up the manpower to track down and isolate outbreaks. And unlike the U.S. approach, every one of Australia’s states either shut their domestic borders or severely limited movement for interstate, and in some cases intrastate, travellers.





Freddie_Biff said:


> This is how you do it. This country can breathe easier and relax restrictions because they’ve earned it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You blew it again. Don't you read these articles before posting them?
> 
> Trump tried to close the country's borders, but Democrats fought him every step of the way. In Canada, Trudeau refused to effectively shut borders. We were kneecapped from the start by leftist knuckleheads.



And your point is? Australia took steps that Canada and the US did not take from very early on, and it was about more than just closing borders. They took this pandemic seriously, something we didn’t do. Didn’t you read the article? It’s got nothing to do with left or right—just good strategy and bad strategy. By the way, how many lawsuits has Trump lost so far? It’s in the 50’s isn’t it? Still waiting for all that spectacular evidence to be presented.


----------



## Macfury

It has to do with making the right decision at the start. If you don't close the borders, the rest doesn't matter. In this case, the left made the really bad decisions.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And your point is? Australia took steps that Canada and the US did not take from very early on, and it was about more than just closing borders. They took this pandemic seriously, something we didn’t do. Didn’t you read the article? It’s got nothing to do with left or right—just good strategy and bad strategy. By the way, how many lawsuits has Trump lost so far? It’s in the 50’s isn’t it? Still waiting for all that spectacular evidence to be presented.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> You blew it again. Don't you read these articles before posting them?
> 
> Trump tried to close the country's borders, but Democrats fought him every step of the way.


(Some) Democrats criticized him _only_ targeting China initially, I don't recall them fighting or preventing him from closing borders? Which ones did? When did they? Trump claimed to have closed down international travel faster than any other country. Are you suggesting both are true?

He has made poor calls, and has been a poor example all along (regarding the pandemic.) He started making them prior to COVID being a thing to worry about. I say that based on his own actions, his own speeches and his own tweets. There's no media bias there.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> (Some) Democrats criticized him _only_ targeting China initially, I don't recall them fighting or preventing him from closing borders? Which ones did? When did they? Trump claimed to have closed down international travel faster than any other country. Are you suggesting both are true?


They criticized him for shutting down any borders. Recall Democrats (Pelosi in particular) in February suggesting people congregate at large festivals because there was "no pandemic." They attacked and upended executive orders to close international traffic through court orders.

Note that my comments here are simply to point out Freddie's hypocrisy. He praises Australia for shutting its borders and then blames Trump for failing to do so - even as his efforts to do so met opposition from the left.


----------



## Macfury

Macfury said:


> Only a team in Antrim county has forensically audited a number of units there this week, but no report as yet.


Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel is attempting to block release of forensic audit of Dominion machines in Antrim County.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And Trump and Texas lose again. So much for loading up the Supreme Court with Republican people. Electoral College votes on Monday, kids. Buh-bye Trump.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/poli...q5yRO76__sDvwmYoEWvSXmgzifX7uZ0oTWG_eh8K1qaG0


----------



## Macfury

You are really clueless about the US constitution Freddie. It may be shocking for you to hear this, but Constitutionalist judges are not activists in the way that leftist judges are. The Supreme Court was right to reject this suit on the grounds that Texas did not have adequate standing. However, this was not Trump's case--it formed organically outside of his own strategy. 

Next?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And Trump and Texas lose again. So much for loading up the Supreme Court with Republican people. Electoral College votes on Monday, kids. Buh-bye Trump.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/poli...q5yRO76__sDvwmYoEWvSXmgzifX7uZ0oTWG_eh8K1qaG0


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You are really clueless about the US constitution Freddie. It may be shocking for you to hear this, but Constitutionalist judges are not activists in the way that leftist judges are. The Supreme Court was right to reject this suit on the grounds that Texas did not have adequate standing. However, this was not Trump's case--it formed organically outside of his own strategy.
> 
> Next?



You really are clueless when it comes to Trump’s intentions, Macfury. Trump doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the Constitution—he just needs to win, whether it involves cheating or not. Of course the Supreme Court made the right decision in rejecting this case, just as they rejected the previous ones, just as more than fifty other cases supporting Trump have also been thrown out. Maybe this is why you shouldn’t go into politics with no background in law. Your hero is dead in the water on Monday. 

Next?


----------



## Macfury

You're wrong again. This is only the first case heard by the US Supreme Court — no other cases were rejected. It was thrown out not because Democrats did not cheat, but because of standing of the plaintiff, Texas. No evidence was heard.

Clearly you hold the mistaken belief that Monday is some sort of important day from a legal standpoint. It isn't. 

Watch and learn.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You really are clueless when it comes to Trump’s intentions, Macfury. Trump doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the Constitution—he just needs to win, whether it involves cheating or not. Of course the Supreme Court made the right decision in rejecting this case, just as they rejected the previous ones, just as more than fifty other cases supporting Trump have also been thrown out. Maybe this is why you shouldn’t go into politics with no background in law. Your hero is dead in the water on Monday.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Second case thrown out be the federal Supreme Court. Maybe Newsmax forgot to tell you about the previous one. Watch the real news and learn.



> Tuesday's one-line order was issued with no noted dissents or comment from any of the nine justices. The court is made up of six conservative justices -- including Trump's three nominees -- Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett -- and three liberals.
> 
> The order marked Barrett's first vote on an election-related dispute.


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cn...eme-court-pennsylvania-trump-biden/index.html


----------



## Macfury

Do you get all of your information from second-hand sources? Do you even know what a denial of "injunctive relief" is? 

Do better.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Second case thrown out be the federal Supreme Court. Maybe Newsmax forgot to tell you about the previous one. Watch the real news and learn.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cn...eme-court-pennsylvania-trump-biden/index.html


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Do you get all of your information from second-hand sources? Do you even know what a denial of "injunctive relief" is?
> 
> Do better.



You’re an idiot, Mf. Two cases the Supreme Court has thrown out so far. Learn to count.


----------



## CubaMark

Trump is such a loser, he stacks the Supreme Court with his ideologue, has a majority, still can't win a case.... :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump followers are complaining that democracy is under attack when in fact these lawsuits that Trump endorses ARE the attack on democracy. Texas wanted ALL the voters in four others states to be disenfranchised. Seems some people can’t see the forest because of all the trees in the way.


----------



## Macfury

I'll bite. Which two cases were thrown out of the Supreme Court of the US?



Freddie_Biff said:


> You’re an idiot, Mf. Two cases the Supreme Court has thrown out so far. Learn to count.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'll bite. Which two cases were thrown out of the Supreme Court of the US?



There was the one on Friday and the one about three days before that. I already provided you the link. Did you not read it? It was a case from Pennsylvania that went all the way to SCOTUS. The other was Texas trying to disenfranchise all the voters in four other states.


----------



## Macfury

The Kelly case from Pennsylvania was denied injunctive relief, but remains active. 

Why don't you check these things out thoroughly before getting behind them? Anybody can be wrong sometimes, but mainlining CNN will increase those chances.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There was the one on Friday and the one about three days before that. I already provided you the link. Did you not read it? It was a case from Pennsylvania that went all the way to SCOTUS. The other was Texas trying to disenfranchise all the voters in four other states.


----------



## Macfury

A: It's not Trump's case.
B: Conservative judges aren't activists, like leftists. You're judging Trump's nominees to the Supreme Court by the same low standards you expect from activist judges.

I'm impressed that you have come so far as to accept that Trump's SCOTUS nominees are bound by the US Constitution in offering their judgements.



CubaMark said:


> Trump is such a loser, he stacks the Supreme Court with his ideologue, has a majority, still can't win a case....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A: It's not Trump's case.
> B: Conservative judges aren't activists, like leftists. You're judging Trump's nominees to the Supreme Court by the same low standards you expect from activist judges.
> 
> I'm impressed that you have come so far as to accept that Trump's SCOTUS nominees are bound by the US Constitution in offering their judgements.



Democrat judges aren’t activists either. They are bound by the same constitution. That’s why SCOTUS will tend to come to reasonable conclusions, contrary to Trump’s expectations. For him, it’s ALL about loyalty. That’s why he turned on Fox News after they reported Biden won the election. Surely you must see that by now. Surely you must realize Trump has no way out but to concede, even though it’s too late to do it gracefully.


----------



## Macfury

Noted and screen-shotted.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Democrat judges aren’t activists either. They are bound by the same constitution. That’s why SCOTUS will tend to come to reasonable conclusions...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Noted and screen-shotted.



Knock yourself out.


----------



## Macfury

https://www.newsweek.com/solar-winds-probably-hacked-russia-serves-white-house-pentagon-nasa-1554447


> On Sunday evening, SolarWinds said a "highly-sophisticated, targeted and manual supply chain attack by a nation state" could have infiltrated its software updates between March and June this year.


Dominion Voting Systems uses SolarWinds products.


----------



## Macfury

Results of Antrim County, Michigan forensic audit of Dominion Voting machines:

https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1



> We conclude that the Dominion Voting System is intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create systemic fraud and influence election results. The system intentionally generates an enormously high number of ballot errors. The electronic ballots are then transferred for adjudication. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots with no oversight, no transparency, and no audit trail.





> The Antrim County Clerk and Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson have stated that the election night error (detailed above by the vote "flip" from Trump to Biden, was the result of human error caused by the failure to update the Mancelona Township tabulator prior to election night for a down ballot race. We disagree and conclude that the vote flip occurred because of machine error built into the voting software designed to create error.





> The allowable election error rate established by the Federal Election Commission guidelines is of 1 in 250,000 ballots (.0008%). We observed an error rate of 68.05%. This demonstrated a significant and fatal error in security and election integrity.





> ...based on the preliminary results, we conclude that the errors are so significant that they call into question the integrity and legitimacy of the results in the Antrim County 2020 election to the point that the results are not certifiable. Because the same machines and software are used in 48 other counties in Michigan, this casts doubt on the integrity of the entire election in the state of Michigan.


----------



## Macfury

Pennsylvania and Georgia send alternate slate of Trump electors to electoral college.


----------



## Macfury

Macfury said:


> Results of Antrim County, Michigan forensic audit of Dominion Voting machines:
> 
> https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1


Further:



> "A high "error rate" in election software (in this case 68.05%) reflects an algorithm used that will weight one candidate greater than another (for instance, weight a specific candidate at a 2/3 to approximately 1/3 ratio)."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> https://www.newsweek.com/solar-winds-probably-hacked-russia-serves-white-house-pentagon-nasa-1554447
> 
> 
> Dominion Voting Systems uses SolarWinds products.



And? You really should research these things thoroughly before you get behind them. You don’t seem to understand that “circumstantial” things do no equal evidence in a court of law.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Electoral College votes today. Another nail in the coffin for Donald J Trump and his followers.


----------



## Macfury

Not really meaningful, considering what is going to happen next.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Electoral College votes today. Another nail in the coffin for Donald J Trump and his followers.


----------



## Macfury

Nevada casts its electoral votes for Trump. In total, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia total 42 electoral votes.

That switches the total for Biden to 264 and puts Trump over the top at 274. 

But there are two sets of electors for each of those states, you might protest. Yes indeed. It would require somebody to decide which slate of electors to accept on January 6. 

And that man is the vice president, Mike Pence.


----------



## Macfury

Trump has been consistently warning election officials:



> Swing States that have found massive VOTER FRAUD, which is all of them, CANNOT LEGALLY CERTIFY these votes as complete & correct without committing a severely punishable crime.


I believe these were fair warnings.


----------



## Macfury

I only presented information. I didn't make a connection. 

Apparently you did! Will you share?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And? You really should research these things thoroughly before you get behind them. You don’t seem to understand that “circumstantial” things do no equal evidence in a court of law.


----------



## CubaMark

*Wisconsin Supreme Court tosses Trump lawsuit attempting to overturn U.S. election loss*

The Wisconsin Supreme Court on Monday rejected President Donald Trump’s lawsuit attempting to overturn his loss to Democrat Joe Biden in the battleground state, ending Trump’s legal challenges in state court about an hour before the Electoral College was to meet to cast the state’s 10 votes for Biden.

The court held arguments in the case Saturday, the same day a federal judge dismissed another Trump lawsuit seeking to overturn his loss in Wisconsin. Trump appealed that ruling.

The president sought to have more than 221,000 ballots disqualified in Dane and Milwaukee counties, the state’s two most heavily Democratic counties. In a 4-3 ruling, Justice Brian Hagedorn, a conservative writing for the majority, said the Trump campaign was “not entitled to the relief it seeks.”

(...)

“Wisconsin voters complied with the election rulebook,” Dallet and Karofksy said. “No penalties were committed and the final score was the result of a free and fair election.”

(Global News)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nevada casts its electoral votes for Trump. In total, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia total 42 electoral votes.
> 
> That switches the total for Biden to 264 and puts Trump over the top at 274.
> 
> But there are two sets of electors for each of those states, you might protest. Yes indeed. It would require somebody to decide which slate of electors to accept on January 6.
> 
> And that man is the vice president, Mike Pence.


You might want to check your sources. Mine says Nevada's 4 votes went to Biden/Harris. Where does your information come from?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/2020-electoral-college-vote-tracker/index.html

Biden currently has 247 EC votes compared to Trump's 232. Only California and Hawaii are left to go. Gee, I wonder which way they'll go?


----------



## Macfury

There were two lawsuits in Wisconsin. This one prevents all 215,000 votes from being thrown out wholesale. The other allows throwing them out on a case-by-case basis:



> The majority decision stated if voters falsely claimed they were indefinitely confined “their ballots would not count.” But the court did not give license to throw out large numbers of ballots without making determinations about the status of each individual voter, as Trump has sought *in his separate lawsuit.*


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...ves-voters-decide-confined-status/6539363002/





CubaMark said:


> *Wisconsin Supreme Court tosses Trump lawsuit attempting to overturn U.S. election loss*
> 
> The Wisconsin Supreme Court on Monday rejected President Donald Trump’s lawsuit attempting to overturn his loss to Democrat Joe Biden in the battleground state, ending Trump’s legal challenges in state court about an hour before the Electoral College was to meet to cast the state’s 10 votes for Biden.
> 
> The court held arguments in the case Saturday, the same day a federal judge dismissed another Trump lawsuit seeking to overturn his loss in Wisconsin. Trump appealed that ruling.
> 
> The president sought to have more than 221,000 ballots disqualified in Dane and Milwaukee counties, the state’s two most heavily Democratic counties. In a 4-3 ruling, Justice Brian Hagedorn, a conservative writing for the majority, said the Trump campaign was “not entitled to the relief it seeks.”
> 
> (...)
> 
> “Wisconsin voters complied with the election rulebook,” Dallet and Karofksy said. “No penalties were committed and the final score was the result of a free and fair election.”
> 
> (Global News)​


----------



## Macfury

Under the U.S. Constitution, the legislature has the ultimate right to send electors. By later tradition, the Governor typically makes the announcement. To date, in the face of rampant fraud, legislatures in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada have taken back that right and sent Trump electors — even as their Governors do not. When the electoral votes are counted on January 6, Vice President Pence must decide which set of electors to recognize.

Addendum: Arizona also selected its own slate of electors this afternoon.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You might want to check your sources. Mine says Nevada's 4 votes went to Biden/Harris. Where does your information come from?
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/2020-electoral-college-vote-tracker/index.html
> 
> Biden currently has 247 EC votes compared to Trump's 232. Only California and Hawaii are left to go. Gee, I wonder which way they'll go?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Under the U.S. Constitution, the legislature has the ultimate right to send electors. By later tradition, the Governor typically makes the announcement. To date, in the face of rampant fraud, legislatures in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada have taken back that right and sent Trump electors — even as their Governors do not. When the electoral votes are counted on January 6, Vice President Pence must decide which set of electors to recognize.



Handing the election to Trump would be the fraud. If you think there’s a rebellion now, watch what happens if the GOP tries to cheat.


----------



## Macfury

I can imagine what Democrats would do upon hearing that the Biden "victory" was vapourware. Conservatives merely work out their disagreements according to the Constitution.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Handing the election to Trump would be the fraud. If you think there’s a rebellion now, watch what happens if the GOP tries to cheat.


----------



## Macfury

Wisconsin just joined the other states in sending an alternate slate of electors.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

302 Biden, 232 Trump. Only Hawaii to go.


----------



## Macfury

Now Arizona and New Mexico electors for Trump as well!


----------



## Macfury

Hey Kamala, I'd hold onto that Senate seat a little longer if I were you...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Now Arizona and New Mexico electors for Trump as well!



So you really seem to embrace the concept of faithless electors then.


----------



## Macfury

In the face of abject electoral fraud carried out in their home state, of course! 



Freddie_Biff said:


> So you really seem to embrace the concept of faithless electors then.


----------



## Macfury

FYI: it's unclear at this point if New Mexico sent an alternate slate of electors.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Has it ever happened that someone won the presidency by a landslide as Biden has done (and Trump before him with the exact same spread) where the election results were turned around on a technicality like the vice-president going with the alternate electors? Sounds like the stuff of GOP wet dream fantasy.


----------



## Macfury

News: Biden did not win the number of votes he claimed. He lost the election.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Has it ever happened that someone won the presidency by a landslide as Biden has done (and Trump before him with the exact same spread) where the election results were turned around on a technicality like the vice-president going with the alternate electors? Sounds like the stuff of GOP wet dream fantasy.


----------



## Macfury

New Mexico is in!



Macfury said:


> FYI: it's unclear at this point if New Mexico sent an alternate slate of electors.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


>



Yeah, I’m not sure which drugs Macfury’s been smoking, but if what he says is true, why wouldn’t every election be contested for [email protected] the same reason as Trump is contesting this one? Perhaps Trump is just the biggest baby to have a tantrum when he doesn’t get his way. It certainly has nothing to do with his familiarity with the Constitution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> News: Biden did not win the number of votes he claimed. He lost the election.



That’s some serious alternate reality ****e right there.


----------



## Macfury

Because they would not succeed in contesting it. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I’m not sure which drugs Macfury’s been smoking, but if what he says is true, why wouldn’t every election be contested for [email protected] the same reason as Trump is contesting this one?


It has everything to do with that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> It certainly has nothing to do with his familiarity with the Constitution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Because they would not succeed in contesting it.
> 
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with that!



And why do you think Trump would succeed in contesting it? Clearly there has been no evidence of voter fraud. You’re saying Pence would allow Trump to cheat and steal the election just because he can?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I think you’ve been drinking your own bath water, mf. The electoral college has already conferred more than 270 votes to Biden. It’s done. According to Trump’s own words he should now be “accepting defeat.”



> Trump’s path to a second term via faithless electors has ‘zero practical chance’ – Fortune
> 
> November 30, 2020 10:15 AM EST
> On Thursday, President Donald Trump said he’d accept defeat if President-elect Joe Biden wins 270 electoral votes when members of the Electoral College vote on Dec. 14.
> 
> Trump’s court challenges have been unsuccessful at flipping Biden’s wins in battleground states like Georgia and Wisconsin. That leaves convincing Biden electors to ditch him as the President’s last remaining path to a second term. While members of the Electoral College—with the exception of Maine and Nebraska—are pledged to vote for the highest vote getter in their state, most states do nothing to stop them from breaking that pledge.
> 
> Biden won 25 states representing 306 electoral votes to Trump’s 25 states with 232 electoral votes. In order to pull off an upset, Trump would need 37 Biden electors to flip and cast “faithless” ballots.
> 
> The obstacle for Trump? No presidential candidate has seen more than six electors flip—which happened to James Madison in 1808. And only around 160 faithless ballots have been cast in U.S. history.
> 
> In 2016, a total of 10 electors cast faithless ballots, with seven—the highest since 1912—actually counting. Trump lost two electoral votes, and Hillary Clinton lost five. But even that historically high faithless ballot count is still 30 short of what Trump would need this go-around.
> 
> Electoral College Vote 2016
> And pulling off the feat would be even harder in 2020.
> 
> Following the 10 faithless votes in 2016, more states adopted laws that prevent this. According to fairvote.org, a total of 14 states, including Iowa and Michigan, now have laws that will cancel electors’ ballots if they don’t cast it for the statewide winner. Those state laws were upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in July when it ruled on the Chiafalo v. Washington case. The Supreme Court also deemed state penalties on unfaithful electors as legal.
> 
> “In sum, there is zero practical chance that Trump can be reelected by changing the minds of Biden electors in the Electoral College,” wrote Tom Goldstein, publisher of the SCOTUSblog, on Saturday.
> 
> Goldstein’s review of state laws finds that 199 Biden electors are already promised to the Democratic nominee by law. That means Trump would have to flip 35% of Biden remaining electors while also not losing any of his own electors.
> 
> The President’s best chance at winning enough faithless electors might be to get Republican-controlled state legislatures in states like Wisconsin and Georgia to intervene. The Constitution gives state legislatures the power to determine how electors for their state are chosen, with these elected bodies usually selecting their slates prior to elections. However, some Republicans have discussed asking state legislatures to throw out Democratic slates and put up pro-Trump electors in their place. Currently, no state legislature is actively pursing such an unprecedented move.
> 
> In total, 538 electors make up the Electoral College. They’ve never changed the final outcome for President. However, in 1836, they nearly changed the vice president outcome—which electors are also required to vote for. Enough electors flipped from Democratic nominee Richard Johnson that it forced the vice presidential race to the Senate—where he was confirmed.
> 
> If none of the vice presidential candidates top 270 electoral votes, the Senate gets to pick. Meanwhile, if neither presidential candidate reaches 270 electoral votes, the vote moves to the House of Representatives. But instead of voting as individual representatives, they’d have to vote as a state—with each state getting one vote. While Democrats have the most House seats, Republicans currently control the most state delegations. The President would be favored in such a scenario, as long as representatives voted along party lines.


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/fortun...-college-december-14-biden-2020-election/amp/

I suppose your rationale is much the same as for declaring that Trump was not #45. That is, only in your world. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Well, Freddie, you sure cleaned my clock with that post!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Well, Freddie, you sure cleaned my clock with that post!



You have proved nothing. The electoral college has voted. What does it matter if there is an alternate slate of electors? They’ve already voted. It’s done. You’re conspiracy theory was a hoax.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> In the face of abject electoral fraud carried out in their home state, of course!


If you will indulge me I'd like to hear exactly what fraud has been committed.

That term has been thrown around a lot.


----------



## Macfury

There you go Freddie. You disposed of that hoax! The vote is in!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You have proved nothing. The electoral college has voted. What does it matter if there is an alternate slate of electors? They’ve already voted. It’s done. You’re conspiracy theory was a hoax.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> If you will indulge me I'd like to hear exactly what fraud has been committed.
> 
> That term has been thrown around a lot.



I would too. Basically he has nothing and no cause to be smug. Some people are just very stubborn. So much winning!


----------



## CubaMark

smashedbanana said:


> If you will indulge me I'd like to hear exactly what fraud has been committed.
> 
> That term has been thrown around a lot.


Didn't you hear? It's SO nefarious, the fraud, that it's UNDETECTABLE! Sneaky, those Dems... sneaky!


*Trump lawyers switch gears, claim fraud is 'undetectable'*
*Following a morning tweet about "massive evidence of widespread fraud," Trump made largely the opposite point in a court filing.*
(MSNBC)


----------



## CubaMark

(The Week)


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> If you will indulge me I'd like to hear exactly what fraud has been committed.
> 
> That term has been thrown around a lot.


Just read through the Dominion voting machine forensics report for Antrim County, Michigan. This is the only county that has so far allowed a forensic audit of voting machines. Dominion machines are used heavily in four swing states and in particular the most populous counties. They rely on the same software. This report was released under court order after the Michigan Attorney General attempted to bury it:

https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Hey Kamala, I'd hold onto that Senate seat a little longer if I were you...


Care to update your advice to the Vice-President-elect? :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Why would I?



CubaMark said:


> Care to update your advice to the Vice-President-elect? :lmao:


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Just read through the Dominion voting machine forensics report for Antrim County, Michigan. This is the only county that has so far allowed a forensic audit of voting machines. Dominion machines are used heavily in four swing states and in particular the most populous counties. They rely on the same software. This report was released under court order after the Michigan Attorney General attempted to bury it:
> 
> https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1


Minor point...the precincts listed are actually in Minnesota and not Michigan.....


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> Minor point...the precincts listed are actually in Minnesota and not Michigan.....


Antrim County is in Michigan and Mancelona Township and the Central Lake District are part of Antrim. What part of the report are you referring to?


----------



## Rps

Macfury said:


> Antrim County is in Michigan and Mancelona Township and the Central Lake District are part of Antrim. What part of the report are you referring to?


MF, here is some followup from FREEP....as I live across from Michigan we are privy to many 
insights...one of which is that Michigan has paper ballot backup. There are a number of articles discounting this testimony. 

Also, thank for the microphone tip ( in another thread ) I'm looking into it.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...t-makes-wild-claims-voter-turnout/3829654001/


----------



## polywog

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell officially acknowledges Joe Biden as president-elect


----------



## Macfury

Rps said:


> MF, here is some followup from FREEP....as I live across from Michigan we are privy to many
> insights...one of which is that Michigan has paper ballot backup. There are a number of articles discounting this testimony.
> 
> Also, thank for the microphone tip ( in another thread ) I'm looking into it.
> 
> https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...t-makes-wild-claims-voter-turnout/3829654001/


That article seems to refer to something else from weeks ago. The forensics report is entirely Antrim County. 

I was told that the USB microphone "punches above its weight." Was looking at more expensive models but was convinced by a music tech at a university that the RODE outperformed them in the under $300 category.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell officially acknowledges Joe Biden as president-elect


I think Cocaine Mitch would prefer Biden!


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Just read through the Dominion voting machine forensics report for Antrim County, Michigan. This is the only county that has so far allowed a forensic audit of voting machines. Dominion machines are used heavily in four swing states and in particular the most populous counties. They rely on the same software. This report was released under court order after the Michigan Attorney General attempted to bury it:
> 
> https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1


I read that "audit" will comment on it separately. 

But is that it? The claims of fraud have been going on for months. That report came up 2 days ago?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Care to update your advice to the Vice-President-elect? :lmao:



He still thinks Trump is gonna pull a victory out of his ass somehow.


----------



## Macfury

Most of the fraud is standard issue stuff. Ballot harvesting, overriding votes using Dominion machines, ballots counted in the absence of poll watchers, backdating of mail-in ballots. 

The Dominion machines are evidence of systemic fraud that could involve members of both parties.

Reports of voting machine irregularities have been going on for months, from misplaced USB keys, to web-connected machines that were supposed to be air-gapped, to late night software updates the day before the election. 

This is the first forensic audit of any machine. Dominion voting machines in Maricopa County, Arizona are set to be audited as of today. 

.


smashedbanana said:


> I read that "audit" will comment on it separately.
> 
> But is that it? The claims of fraud have been going on for months. That report came up 2 days ago?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Most of the fraud is standard issue stuff. Ballot harvesting, overriding votes using Dominion machines, ballots counted in the absence of poll watchers, backdating of mail-in ballots.
> 
> The Dominion machines are evidence of systemic fraud that could involve members of both parties.
> 
> Reports of voting machine irregularities have been going on for months, from misplaced USB keys, to web-connected machines that were supposed to be air-gapped, to late night software updates the day before the election.
> 
> This is the first forensic audit of any machine. Dominion voting machines in Maricopa County, Arizona are set to be audited as of today.
> 
> .


Ok other than this audit it's all heresy and speculation. Will respond to the audit post.


----------



## Macfury

I would say that video footage does not count as speculation. By the same token, a crime witnessed by five people would not be considered hearsay.

How would you have classified the Mueller investigation into President Trump's "Russian collusion"? 



smashedbanana said:


> Ok other than this audit it's all heresy and speculation. Will respond to the audit post.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> I would say that video footage does not count as speculation. By the same token, a crime witnessed by five people would not be considered hearsay.


So you have a link to someone charged with election fraud then?

Otherwise crime is not an accurate term at all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I would say that video footage does not count as speculation. By the same token, a crime witnessed by five people would not be considered hearsay.
> 
> How would you have classified the Mueller investigation into President Trump's "Russian collusion"?



It doesn’t prove anything. What you’re describing is circumstantial evidence at best. The evidence from Mueller was far stronger, enough to indict several people.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Just read through the Dominion voting machine forensics report for Antrim County, Michigan. This is the only county that has so far allowed a forensic audit of voting machines. Dominion machines are used heavily in four swing states and in particular the most populous counties. They rely on the same software. This report was released under court order after the Michigan Attorney General attempted to bury it:
> 
> https://t.co/84HlC1NGtR?amp=1


So I read this. Very biased, draws strong conclusions, presents no other possibilities other that outright fraud.

1. Russell chooses to present his credentials and make it a point to talk about the ownership and board members of Dominion yet leaves out that he is Republican, a Trump Supporter and has run for office.

2. It makes sense that ballots fall into 2 categories. Counted or Adjudication. Not sure why that is telling in any way. Seems like that is the safest way to get all ballots counted. If a ballot has an issue a person reviews it under Adjudication.

3. Where is any input or questions for Dominion? I can read that programming was done to the machines to try and correct ballot reading. My understanding this was a problem even last minute (I read elsewhere about the patching) and Dominion had techs on site. Think that would be relevant to hear input on that. Filter technical problems from actual malicious intent. 

4. Ton of useless information in this. Elections in Venezuela in 2004? Links to Twitter video? 

5. Lots of tech info but no real objective explanation of the real-world implementation, just conclusions at every turn of fraud. When you setup a remote office or event without highspeed internet you are going to have to make concessions. It's the reality for all IT people. Unless you have a 24/7 IT support onsite. Out of date on Windows updates, antivirus signatures, local admin access granted, default password for software and hardware all normal. Ideal no, but normal. Not malicious.

6. USB sticks are the #1 source of malware. Nonsense. The internet is the #1 source period. This is not 2000.

7. No real discussion of whether or not this tech is just flawed. Or the install. New York didn't seem to have a problem. I have read from other sources that Georgia was rushed. Were human mistakes made? Writer really has it out for Dominion.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> How would you have classified the Mueller investigation into President Trump's "Russian collusion"?


As an investigation?


----------



## Macfury

I don't mean to slight you, but much of the information you present here suggests that you are not aware of the protocols for election devices in the US. If you want to go through it point by point I will, but if you like we can wait until the Dominion machinery in Maricopa County, Arizona that has just been subpoenaed by the government undergoes forensics. 



smashedbanana said:


> So I read this. Very biased, draws strong conclusions, presents no other possibilities other that outright fraud.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> As an investigation?


Based on hearsay?


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Based on hearsay?


No.

Several top agencies and officials publicly confirmed Russian interference. Investigation came after.

As far as I have seen for such announcement has been made about the 2020 election.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> No.
> 
> Several top agencies and officials publicly confirmed Russian interference. Investigation came after.
> 
> As far as I have seen for such announcement has been made about the 2020 election.



All those indictments for Trump associates certainly weren’t imaginary.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> I don't mean to slight you, but much of the information you present here suggests that you are not aware of the protocols for election devices in the US. If you want to go through it point by point I will, but if you like we can wait until the Dominion machinery in Maricopa County, Arizona that has just been subpoenaed by the government undergoes forensics.


I am not slighted. I don't pretend to be even an armchair expert in US election protocol. I asked for clarification on what fraud has happened and you pointed to this.

I looked at the audit and you can say my perspective is from someone who does not understand the protocols or you maybe you can say it was an objective look. As I read this audit I recalled my first university essay. I drew strong conclusions and filled the paper with my feelings, opinions and some strong adjectives. I received a talk from my professor about leaving out all that and citing an argument based on sources collected, to leave the conclusion to be drawn by the reader. 

Overall I have had a hard time connecting the dots to outright fraud. No real smoking gun. Lots of depositions and let's be kind and say - terrible witnesses. No admissions of actually perpetuating fraud or being part of a conspiracy or having colluded.

This report just seems like another hail mary. 

Maybe Dominion voting machines are junk. Or maybe the current model is. Or maybe they were installed wrong. Or maybe the states bunged up the use. Hard to see intent from a machine that didn't do what the auditor wanted it to do/expected it to do. I can imagine his audit of the Phoenix Pay System would be a quick conclusion that the system was designed to take money away from Federal employees.

P.S. If you have something else for me to read I will.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

A report on Dominion voting machines from the BBC, another one of those radical left wing prog organizations.

“US election 2020: Is Trump right about Dominion machines?

The machines targeted by Mr Trump were provided by Dominion Voting Systems, and the accusations range from the deletion of votes to inappropriate influence over the company by his political opponents.

So what were his claims, and do they stand up?”

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/election-us-2020-54959962


----------



## Macfury

One example is your question about the report identifying USB keys as a major cause of viruses on voting machines. That's because, with very few exceptions, they're not supposed to be connected to the Internet. This is also why the pause created by a major software update the night before the electionswas a red flag. Once commissioned, long before the election, they are supposed to be totally air gapped. 

Note that voting machine irregularities sometimes appear to favour Democrats and sometimes Republicans. The real question here is whether software can be altered to gently peel votes from one candidate and place them with another. If that can be made to happen, who can make that happen — and what would a candidate need to do to ensure a victory?

The biggest problem this last election is adjudication--the process of examining "damaged" ballots for voter intent. In Antrim that number was unacceptably high by federal election standards of less than 1%. In Fulton County, Georgia, more than 100,000 ballots (94%) were adjudicated — in that staff, not the machines, decided who would receive the vote. 

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1338977383202783232

The machines record an adjudication log which needs to be looked at in Maricopa.

I enjoy discussing these things with you because your responses are thoughtful. I'll be interested in seeing the results of the second audit. I will post and we can compare the two reports. 



smashedbanana said:


> I am not slighted. I don't pretend to be even an armchair expert in US election protocol. I asked for clarification on what fraud has happened and you pointed to this.
> 
> I looked at the audit and you can say my perspective is from someone who does not understand the protocols or you maybe you can say it was an objective look. As I read this audit I recalled my first university essay. I drew strong conclusions and filled the paper with my feelings, opinions and some strong adjectives. I received a talk from my professor about leaving out all that and citing an argument based on sources collected, to leave the conclusion to be drawn by the reader.
> 
> Overall I have had a hard time connecting the dots to outright fraud. No real smoking gun. Lots of depositions and let's be kind and say - terrible witnesses. No admissions of actually perpetuating fraud or being part of a conspiracy or having colluded.
> 
> This report just seems like another hail mary.
> 
> Maybe Dominion voting machines are junk. Or maybe the current model is. Or maybe they were installed wrong. Or maybe the states bunged up the use. Hard to see intent from a machine that didn't do what the auditor wanted it to do/expected it to do. I can imagine his audit of the Phoenix Pay System would be a quick conclusion that the system was designed to take money away from Federal employees.
> 
> P.S. If you have something else for me to read I will.


----------



## CubaMark

*THIS is why we need to abolish the Electoral College:*

In 2016 Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes yet won the election via just 77,000 strategically-placed votes across four states.

In 2020 he lost the popular vote by 7 million but only lost the election by just 42,000 votes spread over three states. (AZ, GA, WI) 

(Raging Pencils)​


----------



## polywog

smashedbanana said:


> Maybe Dominion voting machines are junk. Or maybe the current model is. Or maybe they were installed wrong.


In my opinion, they are all junk. Going right back to the early 2000s with Diebold. They have been called into question every election, though not to this extent.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> One example is your question about the report identifying USB keys as a major cause of viruses on voting machines. That's because, with very few exceptions, they're not supposed to be connected to the Internet. This is also why the pause created by a major software update the night before the elections was a red flag. Once commissioned, long before the election, they are supposed to be totally air gapped.


Understood. I suspect we may find out that Dominion was patching the machines to try and improve the accuracy of the scan. Contrary to allowed protocol but likely allowed by someone. I recall reading that there was constant updates being tried right up till the last moment. Maybe if they don't dump Dominion they will change the ballots.



> Note that voting machine irregularities sometimes appear to favour Democrats and sometimes Republicans. The real question here is whether software can be altered to gently peel votes from one candidate and place them with another. If that can be made to happen, who can make that happen — and what would a candidate need to do to ensure a victory?


That while maybe possible, it is intent. Very different from what I've read. That would either point to malicious intent or at best gross oversight by Dominion. That would require real proof. Did not see that in the audit.



> The biggest problem this last election is adjudication--the process of examining "damaged" ballots for voter intent. In Antrim that number was unacceptably high by federal election standards of less than 1%. In Fulton County, Georgia, more than 100,000 ballots (94%) were adjudicated — in that staff, not the machines, decided who would receive the vote.


I don't see adjudication as the biggest problem. It certainly is a strong argument that the machines are junk and/or not needed, but human oversight reviews those votes. It's a different thing if you are saying people are the problem in those districts.



> https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1338977383202783232
> 
> The machines record an adjudication log which needs to be looked at in Maricopa.


Will follow Maricopa for sure.



> I enjoy discussing these things with you because your responses are thoughtful. I'll be interested in seeing the results of the second audit. I will post and we can compare the two reports.


Yes, I enjoy discussing things with you aswell. I am always open to an new point of view when it's presented thoughtfully and civilly.


----------



## polywog

Former Houston police captain charged with pointing gun at air-conditioner repairman (Granted it's a CNN link)

If there is any legitimacy to the voter fraud claims, wing nuts like this certainly don't help the cause.


----------



## Macfury

The Electoral College ensures that presidential candidates address the needs of all states and campaign for their votes — not just California and New York. This is why you are dead wrong.




CubaMark said:


> *THIS is why we need to abolish the Electoral College:*
> 
> In 2016 Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes yet won the election via just 77,000 strategically-placed votes across four states.
> 
> In 2020 he lost the popular vote by 7 million but only lost the election by just 42,000 votes spread over three states. (AZ, GA, WI)
> 
> (Raging Pencils)​


----------



## Macfury

Many were reported to have been "batch adjudicated" allowing the pollworker to push tens of thousands of votes in the same direction without individual scrutiny by the poll worker or meaningful observation by poll observers.



smashedbanana said:


> I don't see adjudication as the biggest problem. It certainly is a strong argument that the machines are junk and/or not needed, but human oversight reviews those votes. It's a different thing if you are saying people are the problem in those districts.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> In my opinion, they are all junk. Going right back to the early 2000s with Diebold. They have been called into question every election, though not to this extent.


Paper ballots remain the best system for voting and counting. Anything that has a "black box" component should be suspect.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Former Houston police captain charged with pointing gun at air-conditioner repairman (Granted it's a CNN link)
> 
> If there is any legitimacy to the voter fraud claims, wing nuts like this certainly don't help the cause.


A loon no doubt, but the type of story partisan media will elevate on either side to supplant any reasonable discussion of the issues. What would this story be worth at any other time? Two paragraphs?


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> A loon no doubt, but the type of story partisan media will elevate on either side to supplant any reasonable discussion of the issues. What would this story be worth at any other time? Two paragraphs?


Agreed. Unfortunately finding reliable and honest sources is (probably intentionally) a chore.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So McConnell has signalled to the troops what to do come January 5: support President-elect Biden and Vice-president-elect Harris. Mike Pence will be nothing more than a guy who opens envelopes and reads the contents. It’s over Trump cult. There are no more options. Accept it.


----------



## Macfury

You nailed it Freddie. Who can stand against such an onslaught?



Freddie_Biff said:


> So McConnell has signalled to the troops what to do come January 5: support President-elect Biden and Vice-president-elect Harris. Mike Pence will be nothing more than a guy who opens envelopes and reads the contents. It’s over Trump cult. There are no more options. Accept it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You nailed it Freddie. Who can stand against such an onslaught?



Not you, that’s for sure. And not Trump.


----------



## Macfury

Who can argue with you Freddie? You know it all!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not you, that’s for sure. And not Trump.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Who can argue with you Freddie? You know it all!



You realize that Pence is essentially a bean counter on Jan 5, right?


----------



## Macfury

I had no idea. Thank you for teaching me about US election law!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You realize that Pence is essentially a bean counter on Jan 5, right?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I had no idea. Thank you for teaching me about US election law!



So instead of avoiding the subject, why don’t you explain for all of us why you think Trump still has a chance to win?


----------



## Macfury

You've already demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can't!



Freddie_Biff said:


> So instead of avoiding the subject, why don’t you explain for all of us why you think Trump still has a chance to win?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You've already demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can't!



And yet you believe it. Something to do with the Dominion machines I recall. You know they used them in several Republican states as well, including Florida.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure is quiet around here lately. I wonder how they’re making out with those Dominion machines. If Donald is going to be justified when he says he’s not leaving the White House they’d better get a move on.


----------



## Macfury

Your rapier-like words have cut us all dead, Freddie. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure is quiet around here lately. I wonder how they’re making out with those Dominion machines. If Donald is going to be justified when he says he’s not leaving the White House they’d better get a move on.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

How are those plans for staying in the White House going? Will security have to come in and remove the ex-president at 12:01 pm on January 20, 2021?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well what do you know? Newsmax admits it was wrong about Dominion and Smartmatic after all.



> Newsmax issues clarification on Smartmatic, Dominion claims
> 
> Conservative media outlet Newsmax issued a clarification on Monday about recent claims made by guests about a voting software company the network suggested flipped votes to President-elect Joe Biden.
> 
> "Newsmax would like to clarify its news coverage and note it has not reported as true certain claims made about these companies," the outlet said in a statement posted online and read by host John Tabacco. "There are several facts our viewers and readers should be aware. Newsmax has found no evidence either Dominion or Smartmatic owns the other, or has any business association with each other."
> 
> The clarification comes after Florida-based electronic voting system company Smartmatic issued legal notices and retraction demand letters to three conservative outlets including Newsmax for what they said were defamatory and untrue reports about the company.
> 
> "They have no evidence to support their attacks on Smartmatic because there is no evidence. This campaign was designed to defame Smartmatic and undermine legitimately conducted elections," Smartmatic CEO Antonio Mugica said in a statement. "Our efforts are more than just about Smartmatic or any other company. This campaign is an attack on election systems and election workers in an effort to depress confidence in future elections and potentially counter the will of the voters, not just here, but in democracies around the world.".....


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thehil...arification-on-smartmatic-dominion-claims?amp


----------



## Macfury

Why were you counting on Newsmax?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Well what do you know? Newsmax admits it was wrong about Dominion and Smartmatic after all.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thehil...arification-on-smartmatic-dominion-claims?amp


----------



## eMacMan

Am I missing something? Looks to me like Newsmax simply chose not to get itself caught up in expensive litigation. Kind of like giving the keys to your car to the guy holding the gun to your head. Doing so does not give ownership of the car to the guy with the gun, only possession.

Bully tactics, never give any entity a legitimate claim to being correct.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Why were you counting on Newsmax?



I’m not counting on Newsmax. Trump is.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Am I missing something? Looks to me like Newsmax simply chose not to get itself caught up in expensive litigation. Kind of like giving the keys to your car to the guy holding the gun to your head. Doing so does not give ownership of the car to the guy with the gun, only possession.
> 
> Bully tactics, never give any entity a legitimate claim to being correct.


Yep.


----------



## Macfury

Oh, OK. Glad you got it all straightened out for Trump.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m not counting on Newsmax. Trump is.


----------



## CubaMark

*What the heck? Was Bill Barr visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past a little early this year, rediscover his spine, and embrace morality? Wow!*
*
Barr refutes Trump on Hunter Biden, voting machines, Russia hack*

Attorney General Bill Barr told reporters Monday that he sees no reason to name a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden, there is no basis for the federal government to seize voting machines, and that he agrees with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's assessment that Russia was behind the massive recent hack of federal agencies.

*What he's saying:*


On Hunter Biden: "I think to the extent that there is an investigation, I think that it's being handled responsibly and professionally, currently within the department. And to this point, I have not seen a reason to appoint a special counsel. And I have no plan to do so before I leave."
On voter fraud: "I see no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government. ... If I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool and was appropriate, I would name one. But I haven't, and I'm not going to."
On the SolarWinds hack: "From the information that I have, I agree with Secretary Pompeo's assessment. It certainly appears to be the Russians, but I'm not going to discuss it beyond that."

(Axios)​


----------



## Macfury

You, of all people, shouldn't be so eager to embrace psy-ops without a single question!



CubaMark said:


> *What the heck? Was Bill Barr visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past a little early this year, rediscover his spine, and embrace morality? Wow!*
> *
> Barr refutes Trump on Hunter Biden, voting machines, Russia hack*
> 
> Attorney General Bill Barr told reporters Monday that he sees no reason to name a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden, there is no basis for the federal government to seize voting machines, and that he agrees with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's assessment that Russia was behind the massive recent hack of federal agencies.
> 
> *What he's saying:*
> 
> 
> On Hunter Biden: "I think to the extent that there is an investigation, I think that it's being handled responsibly and professionally, currently within the department. And to this point, I have not seen a reason to appoint a special counsel. And I have no plan to do so before I leave."
> On voter fraud: "I see no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government. ... If I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool and was appropriate, I would name one. But I haven't, and I'm not going to."
> On the SolarWinds hack: "From the information that I have, I agree with Secretary Pompeo's assessment. It certainly appears to be the Russians, but I'm not going to discuss it beyond that."
> 
> (Axios)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *What the heck? Was Bill Barr visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past a little early this year, rediscover his spine, and embrace morality? Wow!*
> *
> Barr refutes Trump on Hunter Biden, voting machines, Russia hack*
> 
> Attorney General Bill Barr told reporters Monday that he sees no reason to name a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden, there is no basis for the federal government to seize voting machines, and that he agrees with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's assessment that Russia was behind the massive recent hack of federal agencies.
> 
> *What he's saying:*
> 
> 
> On Hunter Biden: "I think to the extent that there is an investigation, I think that it's being handled responsibly and professionally, currently within the department. And to this point, I have not seen a reason to appoint a special counsel. And I have no plan to do so before I leave."
> On voter fraud: "I see no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government. ... If I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool and was appropriate, I would name one. But I haven't, and I'm not going to."
> On the SolarWinds hack: "From the information that I have, I agree with Secretary Pompeo's assessment. It certainly appears to be the Russians, but I'm not going to discuss it beyond that."
> 
> (Axios)​



Maybe he realized there’s no point in tying himself to a sinking ship.


----------



## Macfury

Ask yourself what difference this makes, if tomorrow is his last day as Attorney General.

Ask yourself why Trump asked Barr to resign long before January 20.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Maybe he realized there’s no point in tying himself to a sinking ship.


----------



## CubaMark

*Meanwhile, the Pardon Party continues....*

*Trump pardons 15, including Republican allies*

President Donald Trump on Tuesday pardoned 15 people, including Republican allies, a 2016 campaign official ensnared in the Russia probe and former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad.

Trump also commuted the sentences of five people. While it is not unusual for presidents to grant clemency on their way out the door, Trump has made clear that he has no qualms about intervening in the cases of friends and allies whom he believes have been treated unfairly. Despite speculation, though, not on the list were members of Trump’s own family, his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and the president himself.

(...)

In the group announced Tuesday night were four former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad that left more a dozen Iraqi civilians dead and caused an international uproar over the use of private security guards in a war zone.

(AP)​
*But this may backfire against the Soon-to-be-Ex-Cheetoh-in-Chief....*, since accepting a pardon is also an admittance of guilt, and it precludes the person who receives a pardon from being able to take the Fifth Amendment during any future criminal proceedings in which they are called to testify.

The New Yorker has a longer and good analysis of the pardon fiesta.


----------



## Macfury

*Number of people pardoned by Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama*

Of course, you just hit the snooze button when...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton



> As President, Clinton used his power under the U.S. Constitution *to grant pardons and clemency to 456 peopl*e, thus commuting the sentences of those already convicted of a crime, and obviating a trial for those not yet convicted. On January 20, 2001, *he pardoned 140 people in the final hours of his presidency*.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Barack_Obama



> By the end of his second and final term on January 20, 2017, United States President Barack Obama had exercised his constitutional power to grant the executive clemency—that is, "pardon, commutation of sentence, remission of fine or restitution, and reprieve"—to 1,927 individuals convicted of federal crimes. Of the acts of clemency, 1,715 were commutations (including 504 life sentences) and 212 were pardons...
> 
> Obama holds the record for the largest single-day use of the clemency power, granting 330 commutations on January 19, 2017, his last full day in office. He also issued more commutations than the past 13 presidents combined.





CubaMark said:


> *Meanwhile, the Pardon Party continues....*
> 
> *Trump pardons 15, including Republican allies*
> 
> President Donald Trump on Tuesday pardoned 15 people, including Republican allies, a 2016 campaign official ensnared in the Russia probe and former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad.
> 
> Trump also commuted the sentences of five people. While it is not unusual for presidents to grant clemency on their way out the door, Trump has made clear that he has no qualms about intervening in the cases of friends and allies whom he believes have been treated unfairly. Despite speculation, though, not on the list were members of Trump’s own family, his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and the president himself.
> 
> (...)
> 
> In the group announced Tuesday night were four former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad that left more a dozen Iraqi civilians dead and caused an international uproar over the use of private security guards in a war zone.
> 
> (AP)​
> *But this may backfire against the Soon-to-be-Ex-Cheetoh-in-Chief....*, since accepting a pardon is also an admittance of guilt, and it precludes the person who receives a pardon from being able to take the Fifth Amendment during any future criminal proceedings in which they are called to testify.
> 
> The New Yorker has a longer and good analysis of the pardon fiesta.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Meanwhile, the Pardon Party continues....*
> 
> *Trump pardons 15, including Republican allies*
> 
> President Donald Trump on Tuesday pardoned 15 people, including Republican allies, a 2016 campaign official ensnared in the Russia probe and former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad.
> 
> Trump also commuted the sentences of five people. While it is not unusual for presidents to grant clemency on their way out the door, Trump has made clear that he has no qualms about intervening in the cases of friends and allies whom he believes have been treated unfairly. Despite speculation, though, not on the list were members of Trump’s own family, his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and the president himself.
> 
> (...)
> 
> In the group announced Tuesday night were four former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad that left more a dozen Iraqi civilians dead and caused an international uproar over the use of private security guards in a war zone.
> 
> (AP)​
> *But this may backfire against the Soon-to-be-Ex-Cheetoh-in-Chief....*, since accepting a pardon is also an admittance of guilt, and it precludes the person who receives a pardon from being able to take the Fifth Amendment during any future criminal proceedings in which they are called to testify.
> 
> The New Yorker has a longer and good analysis of the pardon fiesta.



That’s something I was thinking about. You can only pardon people who’ve been convicted of a crime. Michael Flynn, for instance. Since pardoning himself or his family or Rudy would mean admitting guilt, it puts Trump in an awkward position, since he’s incapable of admitting he’s ever done anything wrong.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Of course, you just hit the snooze button when...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton


"Congress condemned this action by President Clinton, with votes of 95–2 in the Senate and 311–41 in the House."

He was a rat, no question there.



Macfury said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Barack_Obama


Most of the people pardoned or granted clemency had been convicted of drug related charges. Do you support the stance that the US and Canada had taken on from the 70s through to recently?

I know you didn't intend to leave out the Republican president that served between them intentionally, so I've included it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush

Asserting the current president has granted some questionable pardons doesn't mean supporting the pardons of previous presidents.


----------



## CubaMark

polywog said:


> Asserting the current president has granted some questionable pardons doesn't mean supporting the pardons of previous presidents.


*Exactly.*

But in MF and FEXL's world, _unless you also list every single sin_ committed by every other "prog" politician / public figure / Tom, Dick & Harry from the time of humanity's departure from Eden, then you are by definition being _unfairly critical_ of _His Exalted Orange Poobah The Great Cheetoh-in-Chief Trump "The Donald", Saint Pussygrabber of the Kingdom of Mar-a-Lago_ (exit 4 off the South Florida Freeway, valet parking on-site).

So it goes.


----------



## Macfury

Agreed. But CM only goes into full attack mode when it involves Republicans. He hypocritically goes into hibernation during Democrat administrations (which he hates equally, apparently, but says little to nothing about). 

He complains that some Republicans sent "radio signals" to Venezuela to overthrow the government, but goes into deep silence when Obama destabilizes Libya through actual military adventurism.



polywog said:


> "Congress condemned this action by President Clinton, with votes of 95–2 in the Senate and 311–41 in the House."
> 
> He was a rat, no question there.
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the people pardoned or granted clemency had been convicted of drug related charges. Do you support the stance that the US and Canada had taken on from the 70s through to recently?
> 
> I know you didn't intend to leave out the Republican president that served between them intentionally, so I've included it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush
> 
> Asserting the current president has granted some questionable pardons doesn't mean supporting the pardons of previous presidents.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Exactly.*
> 
> But in MF and FEXL's world, _unless you also list every single sin_ committed by every other "prog" politician / public figure / Tom, Dick & Harry from the time of humanity's departure from Eden, then you are by definition being _unfairly critical_ of _His Exalted Orange Poobah The Great Cheetoh-in-Chief Trump "The Donald", Saint Pussygrabber of the Kingdom of Mar-a-Lago_ (exit 4 off the South Florida Freeway, valet parking on-site).
> 
> So it goes.



I think he just proved you right yet again. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

At least CM is a player in these discussions. You're just a guy who nods vigorously.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I think he just proved you right yet again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> At least CM is a player in these discussions. You're just a guy who nods vigorously.



Oh okay, Mr. One-liner. Much deep. So vigor. Many analyze.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Agreed. But CM only goes into full attack mode when it involves Republicans. He hypocritically goes into hibernation during Democrat administrations (which he hates equally, apparently, but says little to nothing about).
> 
> He complains that some Republicans sent "radio signals" to Venezuela to overthrow the government, but goes into deep silence when Obama destabilizes Libya through actual military adventurism.


I've always been on the fence regarding pardons, in some ways it feels like it's too broad in application. 

I guess the big issue though is that Trump seems to have pardoned more than his fair share of turkeys


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> I've always been on the fence regarding pardons, in some ways it feels like it's too broad in application.
> 
> I guess the big issue though is that Trump seems to have pardoned more than his fair share of turkeys



There’s some discussion on whether Trump should be allowed to pardon his family or even himself. What are your thoughts?


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> There’s some discussion on whether Trump should be allowed to pardon his family or even himself. What are your thoughts?


I feel you can't be pardoned of a crime without implying you were guilty of said crime in the first place. It may pave the way for states to try them, since the pardon is only at the federal level?


----------



## polywog

In other news, Kamala's successor has been selected: 

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-...-alex-padilla-to-replace-harris-in-u-s-senate


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> There’s some discussion on whether Trump should be allowed to pardon his family or even himself. What are your thoughts?


I look at the definition of "pardon" and come up with "the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense."

Going by that I do not think the President should be able to pardon anyone without an offence that has been brought forward and judged through the courts. This kind of reminds me of the "pre-crime" division from Minority Report. Different application in that story but similar idea.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> In other news, Kamala's successor has been selected:
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-...-alex-padilla-to-replace-harris-in-u-s-senate


Now all we need is for Kamala to resign...


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Now all we need is for Kamala to resign...


Did a little research on that front. It's peculiar but not unprecedented:
Al Gore resigned on Jan. 2, 1993
Joe Biden resigned Jan. 15, 2009

Maybe she's holding on to her seat because Biden advised her to (not sure what his reasons were.) That's just sterile conjecture though.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I look at the definition of "pardon" and come up with "the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense."
> 
> Going by that I do not think the President should be able to pardon anyone without an offence that has been brought forward and judged through the courts. This kind of reminds me of the "pre-crime" division from Minority Report. Different application in that story but similar idea.



That’s the movie I was thinking about too. If you pardon someone before they’ve even committed a crime, what’s to stop them from killing someone? Shooting someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue for instance?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Did we post this yet? Evidence of voter fraud finally as a man cast a vote posing as his dead mother! He could get 19 years in prison! Only thing is, he voted for Trump. 

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.th...ad-relatives-ballots-were-for-trump?_amp=true


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure not hearing much from the Trump apologists lately. Still think he’s going to attempt a coup? Personally I think he’s a coward at heart who likes to bitch and complain but doesn’t actually have the balls to do anything about it. And I hear they don’t want him living at Mar-a-Lago either. Sad.


----------



## Macfury

Looks like you got this one by the ass, Freddie! 



> Get used to it – "Madame President..."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Looks like you got this one by the ass, Freddie!



Madame Vice-President to update things. It’s kind of sad when you’ve already given up fighting for your hero. Oh well, you do you.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Madame Vice-President to update things. It’s kind of sad when you’ve already given up fighting for your hero. Oh well, you do you.



I don't think anyone expects Joe B to serve out his term. His deep state buddies may even take him out before he is inaugurated. Cabala is their gal.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I don't think anyone expects Joe B to serve out his term. His deep state buddies may even take him out before he is inaugurated. Cabala is their gal.



Well he is pretty old, admittedly, but so is Donald. Just a couple old geezers. Kamala’s only 55. Lots of life left in her. Anything will be a relief from the chaos of the Trump years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Who needs Trump anyhow? 

Congress overrides Trump's veto for the first time on major military bill

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1252652


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Only four more days until the Pence Loyalty Test and we find out if Macfury, the Constitutional Expert, is right.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

This just in: Trump’s conversation with the Secretary of State of Georgia. 

“‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor”

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/pol...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html


----------



## Macfury

Mission accomplished.



> Ryan: “Dominion has not moved any machines out of Fulton County.”
> 
> President Trump: “But have they removed inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?”
> 
> Ryan: “No.”
> Trump: “Are you sure, Ryan?”





Freddie_Biff said:


> This just in: Trump’s conversation with the Secretary of State of Georgia.
> 
> “‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor”
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/pol...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html


----------



## Macfury

Kamala Harris was just sworn in as a senator for the next session of Congress.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Kamala Harris was just sworn in as a senator for the next session of Congress.


Yes. Entirely normal. Standard procedure. By posting that statement without further comment, you are leading the reader to presume that there's something wrong with this, or that it is indicative of a larger issue. It is not.

"California Secretary of State Alex Padilla (D), who Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) named as Vice President-elect Kamala Harris’ replacement, is set to assume the seat after Harris resigns following the Jan. 20 inauguration."

(The Hill)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Kamala Harris was just sworn in as a senator for the next session of Congress.



Cite please. You seem to be referencing news from four years ago.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Mission accomplished.



Uh....how? Trump made a false allegation and was called on it.


----------



## Macfury

If you think this is normal, then you should be satisfied with your explanation.



CubaMark said:


> Yes. Entirely normal. Standard procedure. By posting that statement without further comment, you are leading the reader to presume that there's something wrong with this, or that it is indicative of a larger issue. It is not.
> 
> "California Secretary of State Alex Padilla (D), who Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) named as Vice President-elect Kamala Harris’ replacement, is set to assume the seat after Harris resigns following the Jan. 20 inauguration."
> 
> (The Hill)​


----------



## Macfury

By this time — having had call after private call released to the media — do you think Trump expected Brad Raffensperger to keep this call to himself?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh....how? Trump made a false allegation and was called on it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> By this time — having had call after private call released to the media — do you think Trump expected Brad Raffensperger to keep this call to himself?



Your point? This would be a very morally questionable request to make if the call were private or on a radio talk show. You don’t harass government officials to do your bidding for you, even if they’re from the same political party as you. Trump is relying on his old standby—loyalty—and when that fails, guilt, to try and put himself above the law. However, more and more people are seeing through it. There was no election 
fraud. Trump is just a sore loser.

Also, you still need to cite your source with respect to Kamala Harris.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Your point?


Raffensperger was being made to answer specific questions, for which Trump already has the answers. Trump wanted Raffensperger to broadcast the conversation as widely as possible. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Also, you still need to cite your source with respect to Kamala Harris.


All members of House and Senate were sworn in on January 3.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-swearing-in-2021/h_aed40b20d0557997f20394d10bf8d1c0


----------



## CubaMark

*10 former Pentagon chiefs issue extraordinary warning to Trump*

In an extraordinary rebuke of U.S. President Donald Trump, all 10 living former secretaries of defence are cautioning against any move to involve the military in pursuing claims of election fraud, arguing that it would take the country into "dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory."

The 10 men, both Democrats and Republicans, signed on to an opinion article published Sunday in The Washington Post that implicitly questioned Trump's willingness to follow his constitutional duty to peacefully relinquish power on Jan. 20. Following the Nov. 3 election and subsequent recounts in some states, as well as unsuccessful court challenges, the outcome is clear, they wrote, while not specifying Trump in the article.

"The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the constitution and statute, has arrived," they wrote.

The former Pentagon chiefs warned against use of the military in any effort to change the outcome.

"Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory," they wrote. "Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic."

A number of senior military officers, including Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have said publicly in recent weeks that the military has no role in determining the outcome of U.S. elections and that their loyalty is to the constitution, not to an individual leader or a political party.

(CBC)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Raffensperger was being made to answer specific questions, for which Trump already has the answers. Trump wanted Raffensperger to broadcast the conversation as widely as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> All members of House and Senate were sworn in on January 3.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-swearing-in-2021/h_aed40b20d0557997f20394d10bf8d1c0



Why do you think Trump wanted Raffensperger to broadcast the conversation? It certainly made Trump sound desperate, not a look he likes. It does not seem like the strategy of a winner. Maybe a whiner.

I imagine the Democrats are going to need all the votes they can get if the Republicans dry to pull some shenanigans regarding certification of the EC vote. That would be my guess as to why Kamala has not resigned yet.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *10 former Pentagon chiefs issue extraordinary warning to Trump*
> 
> In an extraordinary rebuke of U.S. President Donald Trump, all 10 living former secretaries of defence are cautioning against any move to involve the military in pursuing claims of election fraud, arguing that it would take the country into "dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory."
> 
> The 10 men, both Democrats and Republicans, signed on to an opinion article published Sunday in The Washington Post that implicitly questioned Trump's willingness to follow his constitutional duty to peacefully relinquish power on Jan. 20. Following the Nov. 3 election and subsequent recounts in some states, as well as unsuccessful court challenges, the outcome is clear, they wrote, while not specifying Trump in the article.
> 
> "The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the constitution and statute, has arrived," they wrote.
> 
> The former Pentagon chiefs warned against use of the military in any effort to change the outcome.
> 
> "Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory," they wrote. "Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic."
> 
> A number of senior military officers, including Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have said publicly in recent weeks that the military has no role in determining the outcome of U.S. elections and that their loyalty is to the constitution, not to an individual leader or a political party.
> 
> (CBC)​



It’s scary what a dictator will do do try to hold on to power. No wonder he admires the leaders of Russia and North Korea so much.


----------



## Macfury

It's scary how many stupid wars in which former defense secretaries have embroiled the United States. No wonder they hate the one president who has refused to do this.

We know we've reached peak Trump Derangement Syndrome when CubaMark begins to use statements issued by the military-industrial complex to bolster his opinions.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s scary what a dictator will do do try to hold on to power. No wonder he admires the leaders of Russia and North Korea so much.


----------



## smashedbanana

Well I listened to the whole recording.

Wow.

I've tried to be objective but every time you listen to Trump speak it's either at best like listening to someone trying to sell a comment section in facebook to you or at worst what an abusive relationship must be like.

I can't believe he is still afforded the respect and airtime he's been given. Really sycophantic. 

The boot licking coming from the Republicans now. So afraid of his base they are ready to do whatever. Whenever you read about 1930s Germany, ya here you go. No lessons learned.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Well I listened to the whole recording.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> I've tried to be objective but every time you listen to Trump speak it's either at best like listening to someone trying to sell a comment section in facebook to you or at worst what an abusive relationship must be like.
> 
> I can't believe he is still afforded the respect and airtime he's been given. Really sycophantic.
> 
> The boot licking coming from the Republicans now. So afraid of his base they are ready to do whatever. Whenever you read about 1930s Germany, ya here you go. No lessons learned.



Exactly. This is typical behaviour of followers of a cult leader. They’re afraid to puss him off and lose his core base. But one also needs to ask themselves: what kind of followers do you really want to have that you need to sacrifice your integrity? I don’t like Mitch McConnell much for example, but at least he’s willing to admit that Biden/Harris won.


----------



## Macfury

McConnell doesn't care who is president as long as he can continue to enrich himself with CCP-related deals through his wife's family. Beijing Biden is his best bet.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t like Mitch McConnell much for example, but at least he’s willing to admit that Biden/Harris won.


----------



## smashedbanana

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. This is typical behaviour of followers of a cult leader. They’re afraid to puss him off and lose his core base. But one also needs to ask themselves: what kind of followers do you really want to have that you need to sacrifice your integrity? I don’t like Mitch McConnell much for example, but at least he’s willing to admit that Biden/Harris won.


It really makes no sense. At the end of the day these institutional politicians are supported by donors and superpacs. 

Mitch McConnell is a POS.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

S’more on Trump’s call to Raffensperger. 



> The Jolt: White House called Brad Raffensperger 18 times before he took Donald Trump’s call
> 
> NBC News reports that before the pair hooked up on Saturday, the White House switchboard had made 18 previous attempts to have President Donald Trump speak with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger since the Nov. 3 election.
> 
> Meanwhile, Raffensperger told ABC News this morning that he resisted previous overtures because of a lawsuit the president’s re-election campaign (and the Georgia GOP) had filed against him, challenging the Georgia results.
> 
> Asked if he intended to open up a criminal investigation into whether Trump violated state laws barring interference in determining election results, Raffensperger told ABC News this:
> 
> “I understand that the Fulton County district attorney wants to look at it. Maybe that’s the appropriate venue for it to go.”....


 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.aj...ll/XMI3XYYULBFV7MM7EBIMDZNXTQ/?outputType=amp


----------



## Macfury

That's rich! Raffy may be going to prison before long.



Freddie_Biff said:


> S’more on Trump’s call to Raffensperger.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.aj...ll/XMI3XYYULBFV7MM7EBIMDZNXTQ/?outputType=amp


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That's rich! Raffy may be going to prison before long.



An odd response. You seem to take away the exact opposite than everyone else does.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So great to see the good people of Georgia embracing the Democrat candidates for Senate. They’re making America great again!


----------



## Dr.G.

Freddie_Biff said:


> So great to see the good people of Georgia embracing the Democrat candidates for Senate. They’re making America great again!


Amen, brother. Paix, mon ami. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## groovetube

Dr.G. said:


> Amen, brother. Paix, mon ami. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


It is indeed fantastic news. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> So great to see the good people of Georgia embracing the Democrat candidates for Senate. They’re making America great again!


 I hate to point this out but a politician is a politician. It matters not the colour of his stripes. I am sure the new Senator from Georgia will soon prove every bit as corrupt as 95% of his cohorts.


Regardless putting the same party in control of both branches of Congress and the executive office will almost certainly prove a very bad idea. If I recall the Democrypts enjoyed a similar position when FATCA became law. Other than the anti-patriot and anti-liberty acts, FATCA is about as horrendous a piece of legislation as ever has been passed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I hate to point this out but a politician is a politician. It matters not the colour of his stripes. I am sure the new Senator from Georgia will soon prove every bit as corrupt as 95% of his cohorts.
> 
> 
> Regardless putting the same party in control of both branches of Congress and the executive office will almost certainly prove a very bad idea. If I recall the Democrypts enjoyed a similar position when FATCA became law. Other than the anti-patriot and anti-liberty acts, FATCA is about as horrendous a piece of legislation as ever has been passed.



Senators, plural. The Dems won both Senate seats in Georgia. With the new VP, they can pass laws without obstruction. Mitch McConnell is no longer in charge. Could this day get any better? Oh yeah, they’re finalizing the Electoral College votes today. The Repubs are really taking a *****kicking today.


----------



## Macfury

You're going to love what happens next...


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> You're going to love what happens next...


Well it's hitting the fan now.

How blatantly irresponsible can that man be? Does he even really want to be president? I think he just hates losing.

Well they are all losing now. Big time.


----------



## 18m2

The US is truly ƒucked!

How can they regain civility and calm after the Trumpers essentially commit seditious acts of violence?


----------



## CubaMark

Well, ******-landia is in full laughingstock mode now.... 

How do you all like your great orange messiah now?

*Disgusting.*

*Protesters storm U.S. Capitol building during certification of Biden win*









(Anyone care to wager on which right-wing domestic terrorist group this guy belongs to? 
Those tats should be easy to identify him)​
Chaos descended onto the House Chamber floor on Wednesday as protesters supporting U.S. President Donald Trump stormed the Capitol building seeking to prevent President-Elect Joe Biden’s election certification.

U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence was pulled from the House Chamber floor and police dispersed tear gas to push back protesters, telling members of Congress inside the House chamber to put on gas masks. Several senators tweeted they were sheltering in their offices while security evacuated much of the building.

One protester made it onto the House Chamber dais and yelled “Trump won that election.”

Amid the violence, one woman was shot. Her condition remains unknown. Several images have emerged of protesters inside. In one, a protester is sitting in Nancy Pelosi’s chair. Another shows a protester carrying a House podium. Outside, a hanging post with a noose has been erected by the west side of the Capitol building.

Kayleigh McEnany, Trump’s press secretary, said the U.S. National Guard and other federal protective services were “on the way” to help quell the violence.

Republicans had just mounted their first objection to Arizona’s electoral vote count when the floor was evacuated.

Sen. Ted Cruz, who led a group of 12 Republican senators promising to reject the Electoral College results, called for an “emergency audit” of the elections results. The Electoral College favoured Biden to win with 306 electoral college votes to Trump’s 232.

** * **​
Earlier on Wednesday, Trump had urged the massive crowd of protesters to march towards the Capitol, vowing he would “never concede” to Biden.

“We will never give up,” he said.

Rep. Veronica Escobar said she was currently sheltering as both the Capitol building, House and Senate chambers were locked down. She blamed Trump for the breach, claiming “this is the chaos and lawlessness @realDonaldTrump has created.”

(GlobalNews)​
And of course, Trump et al., are now publicly wringing their hand, shedding crocodile tears, with the _"Oh Mercy Me! How could this have possibly happened? Everyone please return to your homes peaceably. This is such an affront to my sensibilities! I may swoon!"_

Ah, well._ All empires fall eventually._


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> Well it's hitting the fan now.
> 
> How blatantly irresponsible can that man be? Does he even really want to be president? I think he just hates losing.
> 
> Well they are all losing now. Big time.



He hates admitting he’s a loser. That’s why he’s in such deep denial. People are going to be killed by today’s antics. Thanks, Mr. Law and Order President. Thanks also to your fanatical followers.


----------



## CubaMark

A White House official told Axios' Jonathan Swan that President Trump had been ranting about Vice President Pence's refusal to block certification of the Electoral College — _which Pence has no constitutional authority to do_ — and was reluctant to issue a more forceful condemnation of his supporters.

Shortly after Biden's address, Trump released a one-minute video on Twitter reiterating his false claims that the election was "stolen," but telling his supporters that "we have to have peace."

*"Go home. We love you. You're special,"* he added.

(Axios)

*What a wonderful, warm message to the brave misunderstood protestors and Defenders of Democracy™ by the Glorious Leader, President Donald J. Trump! *

Photos of the occupation by Fox News 5:


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## CubaMark

*The rot runs deep....*

One video posted to social media showed several *people in D.C. Capitol Police jackets removing barriers outside the Capitol building, allowing demonstrators to pass through* to the building. Videos posted to Twitter also showed at least one person who appeared to be *an officer taking selfies with people who had breached the Capitol*. (USAToday)​


----------



## 18m2

I see a Twitter message ... from Twitter Safety



> This means that the account of @realDonaldTrump will be locked for 12 hours following the removal of these Tweets. If the Tweets are not removed, the account will remain locked.


There are more bits of content but they reenforce this information.

Good for Twitter.


----------



## Macfury

Why do you think the DC cops removed barriers?



CubaMark said:


> *The rot runs deep....*
> 
> One video posted to social media showed several *people in D.C. Capitol Police jackets removing barriers outside the Capitol building, allowing demonstrators to pass through* to the building. Videos posted to Twitter also showed at least one person who appeared to be *an officer taking selfies with people who had breached the Capitol*. (USAToday)​


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Why do you think the DC cops removed barriers?


Probably thought the protesters were Antifa, whom of course are immune from both Covid and prosecution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So where’s that big surprise Macfury was promising? Biden’s almost at 270. Again.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Trump concedes, at least as much as he’s capable of, promising there will be an orderly transition of power.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


>


really shows you have nothing to say when you resort to making fun of someones appearance. I guess it is only ok to make fun of people if they are straight and white.

Really hard to try and be above these horribles actions when comments like these are made.


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings said:


> really shows you have nothing to say when you resort to making fun of someones appearance. I guess it is only ok to make fun of people if they are straight and white.
> 
> Really hard to try and be above these horribles actions when comments like these are made.


Yes, you are entirely correct.

My terribly insensitive comments are indeed on par with the seditious actions of a riotous mob storming the Capitol and resulting in a woman's death.

The equivalency is simply astounding! 

I'll go off an meditate on your comments now.... 

:lmao:


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> Yes, you are entirely correct.
> 
> My terribly insensitive comments are indeed on par with the seditious actions of a riotous mob storming the Capitol and resulting in a woman's death.
> 
> The equivalency is simply astounding!
> 
> I'll go off an meditate on your comments now....
> 
> :lmao:


I did not justify that in anyway, nor do I justify what is going on in DC right now. It is wrong. How will anyone ever meet in the middle (if that is even possible anymore)? Does anyone take the high road anymore? Or is reducing people to make fun of their appearance the accepted norm now because you do not like their actions? A simple thing most children learn in school is 1 wrong does not make another wrong right, no matter the difference in how severe the actions are.


----------



## smashedbanana

wonderings said:


> I did not justify that in anyway, nor do I justify what is going on in DC right now. It is wrong. How will anyone ever meet in the middle (if that is even possible anymore)? Does anyone take the high road anymore? Or is reducing people to make fun of their appearance the accepted norm now because you do not like their actions? A simple thing most children learn in school is 1 wrong does not make another wrong right, no matter the difference in how severe the actions are.


While I agree 100% with you comments in other contexts not sure in this case it applies.

Pretty sure that guy got up yesterday and 100% was going to do whatever it took to get on camera. Painted face, no shirt in January, buffalo pelt. Ya. Wasn't there to discuss his views. His posed photos all over the internet and here. So criticism seems fair and warranted. 

Real point is of course how was a breach even possible.

I'm no fan of BLM but if they showed up you can be there would have been water hoses, tear gas, more deaths right away.


----------



## eMacMan

OOPS as usual the official narrative is unraveling.


> Latest news from someone actually at the Trump rally
> "So I find it comical how sooo many people on FB are commenting about what they THINK happened or the narrative they are seeing on the news regarding the March at the Capital. Well SINCE I AM HERE IN PERSON reporting and saw everything, I will tell you NOTHING aligns with what the media was and is saying - *I will also tell you that close to 1.5 million people PEACEABLY Protested the entire time* - Antifa showed up on the 5th and 6th Dressed in Capital Police Uniforms and Trump Apparel and started attacking Trump supporters. After President Trump spoke at Elipse Park scores of people marched to the Capitol in protest of what is thought to be wide-spread fraud and THAT IS THEIR RIGHT!! *6 people broke into the capital and all 6 were identified as Antifa members and arrested.*
> So please get your story straight before you villainies alot of people. Copied from
> Richard T. Riley


Obviously spelling is not Riley's long suit but I'll wager his version is more accurate than C(IA)NN's


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> OOPS as usual the official narrative is unraveling.
> Obviously spelling is not Riley's long suit but I'll wager his version is more accurate than C(IA)NN's


Come on!

There is so much video out there of more than 6 people rush the building. All decked out in Trump paraphernalia. Good grief.

A person was shot.


----------



## wonderings

smashedbanana said:


> While I agree 100% with you comments in other contexts not sure in this case it applies.
> 
> Pretty sure that guy got up yesterday and 100% was going to do whatever it took to get on camera. Painted face, no shirt in January, buffalo pelt. Ya. Wasn't there to discuss his views. His posed photos all over the internet and here. So criticism seems fair and warranted.
> 
> Real point is of course how was a breach even possible.
> 
> I'm no fan of BLM but if they showed up you can be there would have been water hoses, tear gas, more deaths right away.


All events are not equal, nor are responses. You can't say we had Riot A here and therefore Riot B over there will be the exact same, in both actions and response. Not sure what the results would be like, we won't know because it did not happen. Trying to speculate that there is a racist tone to this helps nothing and no one and again creates only more division. Not only is the event bad, people are now saying it is racist because they think black people would have been killed if it was a BLM riot. It did not happen, it is purely speculation only helps anger and divide even more.


----------



## smashedbanana

wonderings said:


> All events are not equal, nor are responses. You can't say we had Riot A here and therefore Riot B over there will be the exact same, in both actions and response. Not sure what the results would be like, we won't know because it did not happen. Trying to speculate that there is a racist tone to this helps nothing and no one and again creates only more division. Not only is the event bad, people are now saying it is racist because they think black people would have been killed if it was a BLM riot. It did not happen, it is purely speculation only helps anger and divide even more.


Sure.

But what is the difference between speculation and discussion?

This is a discussion not a press conference. You don't agree tell me why. 

What we discuss here on a members only forum made up of Canadian members will not influence anger and hate in the USA.


----------



## wonderings

smashedbanana said:


> Sure.
> 
> But what is the difference between speculation and discussion?
> 
> This is a discussion not a press conference. You don't agree tell me why.
> 
> What we discuss here on a members only forum made up of Canadian members will not influence anger and hate in the USA.


It certainly angers people in Canada. We seem to mirror a lot of the issues the US has despite us (Canada) not being anywhere near what they are going through. 

I don't agree with that speculation as all it does is divide and create more anger. What is the point? There is enough to talk about with the riot as is without dropping in that the entire police force and government may be racist because someone thinks that if it was a BLM riot it would be completely different.


----------



## Macfury

Some of the people breaking in are clearly Antifa. There's a video with Trump supporters trying to pull these guys off the windows and repeating "It's Antifa." Look at some of the footage taken by people at the event, where the Capitol Police are repeatedly opening doors, encouraging people to come inside, then picking up a baton as though they were defending the place. Total Psy-op,


----------



## smashedbanana

wonderings said:


> It certainly angers people in Canada. We seem to mirror a lot of the issues the US has despite us (Canada) not being anywhere near what they are going through.
> 
> I don't agree with that speculation as all it does is divide and create more anger. What is the point? There is enough to talk about with the riot as is without dropping in that the entire police force and government may be racist because someone thinks that if it was a BLM riot it would be completely different.


Discussion is always healthy. Not discussing things is in my opinion what got them to where they are. Too often when anger, hate, or fringe speech has been made it has been met with eye rolls and silence. And lets be honest that speech has too often been seen as entertainment rather than dangerous.

I am not a BLM supporter and even really don't even discuss it.

But I have like everyone witnessed BLM protests been met with strong police responses. Which is why I mentioned them. 

Then we see an unprecedented breach of the capitol building. And it lasted long enough for photo ops, riffling through desks, removal of souvenirs?


----------



## CubaMark

wonderings, which characterization are you upset with? That I made fun of that doofus in the viking hat and fur (who is an actor / activist of the Q-Anon variety) who has stated that he dresses that way to get media attention, or the "Duck Dynasty" slam (which is less a critique of their appearance and more an indication that they are fans of a particular reality show wacko culture)?

Your question as to whether anyone "takes the high road anymore" - sorry, that doesn't apply here. This is akin to Donnie Trump talking about how the KKK-affiliated groups are "some really good people" after the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville.

BTW, the death toll of the Congress siege is up to four, at last count.

And:

_All events are not equal, nor are responses. You can't say we had Riot A here and therefore Riot B over there will be the exact same, in both actions and response. Not sure what the results would be like, we won't know because it did not happen. Trying to speculate that there is a racist tone to this helps nothing and no one and again creates only more division. Not only is the event bad, people are now saying it is racist because they think black people would have been killed if it was a BLM riot. It did not happen, it is purely speculation only helps anger and divide even more._​
*Seriously?*

The authorities knew that there were protestors being called to the Capitol for days in advance. They knew from past actions, combined with the rhetoric being spewed by Trump that violence was very likely to ensue. They had time to get security forces in place to deal with this... but they did not. That's a marked change of tactic - and advance planning - than was in play during the BLM protests.

And I hope that in the inevitable next display of public anger following an example of police brutality, etc., you give as much credence to the left's allegations that agents provocateurs were involved in setting fires, destroying shops, etc., as you are currently asking us to believe in terms of these supposed "Antifa" actors who were "the real ones to blame" for the Congress situation yesterday. You can't have it both ways, bub.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Some of the people breaking in are clearly Antifa. There's a video with Trump supporters trying to pull these guys off the windows and repeating "It's Antifa." Look at some of the footage taken by people at the event, where the Capitol Police are repeatedly opening doors, encouraging people to come inside, then picking up a baton as though they were defending the place. Total Psy-op,


Were there more than 6 people?

Have anything other what someone yelled? Let's get something more concrete then that.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> Were there more than 6 people?
> 
> Have anything other what someone yelled? Let's get something more concrete then that.


I'm not sure how to link Twitter stuff here, particularly videos.


----------



## Macfury

Try this:

https://twitter.com/35Leosa/status/1346977048456175620


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> wonderings, which characterization are you upset with? That I made fun of that doofus in the viking hat and fur (who is an actor / activist of the Q-Anon variety) who has stated that he dresses that way to get media attention, or the "Duck Dynasty" slam (which is less a critique of their appearance and more an indication that they are fans of a particular reality show wacko culture)?
> 
> Your question as to whether anyone "takes the high road anymore" - sorry, that doesn't apply here. This is akin to Donnie Trump talking about how the KKK-affiliated groups are "some really good people" after the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville.
> 
> BTW, the death toll of the Congress siege is up to four, at last count.
> 
> And:
> 
> _All events are not equal, nor are responses. You can't say we had Riot A here and therefore Riot B over there will be the exact same, in both actions and response. Not sure what the results would be like, we won't know because it did not happen. Trying to speculate that there is a racist tone to this helps nothing and no one and again creates only more division. Not only is the event bad, people are now saying it is racist because they think black people would have been killed if it was a BLM riot. It did not happen, it is purely speculation only helps anger and divide even more._​
> *Seriously?*
> 
> The authorities knew that there were protestors being called to the Capitol for days in advance. They knew from past actions, combined with the rhetoric being spewed by Trump that violence was very likely to ensue. They had time to get security forces in place to deal with this... but they did not. That's a marked change of tactic - and advance planning - than was in play during the BLM protests.
> 
> And I hope that in the inevitable next display of public anger following an example of police brutality, etc., you give as much credence to the left's allegations that agents provocateurs were involved in setting fires, destroying shops, etc., as you are currently asking us to believe in terms of these supposed "Antifa" actors who were "the real ones to blame" for the Congress situation yesterday. You can't have it both ways, bub.


I think making fun of anyone for their appearance is childish at best. I don't know that he is an actor or activist of Q-Anon, I still don't think that justifies it. Duck Dynasty is brought up to somehow signify they are dumb, less intelligent, etc. This is from the tweet you posted, not your words. It is used as an insult, like "really... with all that defence money you could not stop a duck dynasty look alike". I think it is clearly insinuating a negative on someone based on their appearance. Of course it could all be me and how I am reading it. 

I cannot speak to them knowing a protest was coming and to assume it would be violent. Peaceful protests are not illegal as we all know, were they adequately prepared for a peaceful protest? 

I try to listen to all sides in a reasonable and respectful manner. Not sure what you are referring to in regards to supposed Antifa actors. I have not blamed them or even assumed they were involved, though I do think Antifas goals seem very similar to the ones of that mob in DC yesterday, to silence those who disagree with them.


----------



## smashedbanana

wonderings said:


> Duck Dynasty is brought up to somehow signify they are dumb, less intelligent, etc. This is from the tweet you posted, not your words. It is used as an insult, like "really... with all that defence money you could not stop a duck dynasty look alike". I think it is clearly insinuating a negative on someone based on their appearance. Of course it could all be me and how I am reading it.


I swear I am not trying to pick on you Wonderings but...

Duck Dynasty was used as a descriptor because of their beards.


----------



## Macfury

These guys are identified as Antifa:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> These guys are identified as Antifa:



Cite please.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Try this:
> 
> https://twitter.com/35Leosa/status/1346977048456175620


I watched this. Not sure what I was supposed to get from it. What did you get?


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I watched this. Not sure what I was supposed to get from it. What did you get?


Officer allowing people into the area, making only token gestures with a baton as he reached each landing, then giving complete way to people entering the building. This is supposed to be a heavily guarded area with top-level security. This looks like a set-up.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Officer allowing people into the area, making only token gestures with a baton as he reached each landing, then giving complete way to people entering the building. This is supposed to be a heavily guarded area with top-level security. This looks like a set-up.


I'm not sure that's clear. He was surrounded. There is someone filming him.

Not sure a lethal response would have been a good idea. Think he's using his radio there too. Clearly a situation not covered in the training regiment.

Hard to tell the difference between someone not sure what to do and facilitating the crowd.

Heads are going to roll on Capitol Hill. You can be he will have to make a statement.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I'm not sure that's clear. He was surrounded. There is someone filming him.
> 
> Not sure a lethal response would have been a good idea. Think he's using his radio there too. Clearly a situation not covered in the training regiment.
> 
> Hard to tell the difference between someone not sure what to do and facilitating the crowd.
> 
> Heads are going to roll on Capitol Hill. You can be he will have to make a statement.


If that's his professional response to incursion, I have no idea what is covered in training. Protesters over-ran Washington and set massive fires in June, so you would think this would be covered.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> These guys are identified as Antifa:



Again, cite please. I can find no reference to the.sleeping.giant anywhere, which certainly does not make it sound like a credible source.


----------



## Macfury

Another police officer leading people closer to the building:

https://twitter.com/bumbera_steven/status/1347270969988173825


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Another police officer leading people closer to the building:
> 
> https://twitter.com/bumbera_steven/status/1347270969988173825



And your point? Of course it’s possible that the police were cooperating with the rioters, particularly if they were instructed to do so by the commander in chief or one of his representatives. By the way, still waiting for that cite from earlier.


----------



## Macfury

More non-Trump protesters identified:


----------



## Macfury

Another one:

https://twitter.com/maxalex66/status/1347121627637698560


----------



## Freddie_Biff

For the fourth time, please cite. How can anyone check your sources for accuracy if you won’t reveal what they are?


----------



## macintosh doctor

all these rioters were paid by democRATs.. no one will report, media like in canada is bought by the left.. 
democracy has failed us
conservatives not gonna win based on what I have seen. Too dumb, not cunning enough to fight the left and their wicked ways


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> all these rioters were paid by democRATs.. no one will report, media like in canada is bought by the left..
> democracy has failed us
> conservatives not gonna win based on what I have seen. Too dumb, not cunning enough to fight the left and their wicked ways



Got any proof for those allegations? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Another one:
> 
> https://twitter.com/maxalex66/status/1347121627637698560


"John Sullivan is the founder of the civil rights group Insurgence USA and does not align politically with President Donald Trump, but has been in D.C. this week for several planned protests including Wednesday’s rally at the Capitol."

"A social justice leader from Utah was seen in Washington, DC, Wednesday to document the historic moment when thousands of pro-Trump protestors stormed the US Capitol."

"John Sullivan, who founded Insurgence USA, a group that stands against police brutality, told KUTV he was on the frontlines when rioters broke into Capitol Hill and attacked police."

From what else I read, Insurgence USA is interested in police brutality. Stands to reason he'd be there to witness an event like this.


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> Got any proof for those allegations?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wait a sec! We doing proof now?


----------



## WCraig

Macfury said:


> Some of the people breaking in are clearly Antifa. There's a video with Trump supporters trying to pull these guys off the windows and repeating "It's Antifa." Look at some of the footage taken by people at the event, where the Capitol Police are repeatedly opening doors, encouraging people to come inside, then picking up a baton as though they were defending the place. Total Psy-op,


“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” 
George Orwell, 1984


Craig


----------



## CubaMark

*Nope, ‘facial recognition’ didn’t spot Antifa members at US riots*

After right-wing rioters stormed the US Capitol building on Wednesday, Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz pushed a conspiracy theory that members of Antifa masquerading as Trump supporters were among the mob.

Gaetz, an ardent Trump ally, based his claims on a Washington Times report containing “compelling evidence” from a facial recognition firm.

The story features a cast of shady characters: a controversial Congressman who’s been accused of glorifying violence, a pack of far-right protestors; a publication with a history of shoddy reporting, and a mysterious facial recognition company.

But the company in question — XRVision — told TNW that the claims are nonsense. In a statement, XRVision said it hadn’t identified anyone from Antifa — although it had detected two members of neo-Nazi organizations and another individual with a history of promoting QAnon:

The image analysis that we performed were distributed to a handful of individuals for their private consumption and not for publication. XRVision takes pride in its technology’s precision and deems the Washington Times publication as outright false, misleading, and defamatory.

XRVision said its attorney had instructed the Washington Times right-wing outlet to retract its claims and publish an apology. The conservative outlet has now issued a correction and apology for the error.

(TNW)​

*CORRECTED: Facial recognition identifies extremists storming the Capitol*

*Correction:* _An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that XRVision facial recognition software identified Antifa members among rioters who stormed the Capitol Wednesday. XRVision did not identify any Antifa members. The Washington Times apologizes to XRVision for the error._

Facial recognition software has identified neo-Nazis and other extremists as participants in Wednesday’s assault on the U.S. Capitol.
XRVision, a software firm in New York, used its image analysis to help law enforcement identify rioters.
“Shortly after the rioting started, XRVision performed an analysis on the footage and identified several individuals. This information was shared with LEA [law enforcement agency],” the company said in a statement to The Washington Times.

Supporters of President Trump, including some who were part of the crowd Wednesday that stormed the U.S. Capitol, had claimed online that Antifa members had infiltrated their numbers.
The Washington Times erroneously reported late Wednesday that facial recognition technology backed up that speculation and identified two Antifa members. In fact, XRVision has not identified any members of that far-left movement as being part of the attack.

(WashingtonTimes)​


----------



## CubaMark

*US Capitol Police Officer Dies From Injuries Suffered During Riot
*
A U.S. Capitol Police officer died from injuries suffered during Wednesday's riot at the U.S. Capitol.

Officer Brian D. Sicknick died about 9:30 p.m. Thursday, according to a Capitol Police statement.

Sicknick, who joined the Capitol Police in 2008, was injured while physically engaged with rioters at the U.S. Capitol. He collapsed after returning to his division office and was taken to a hospital, police said.

"The entire USCP Department expresses its deepest sympathies to Officer Sicknick’s family and friends on their loss and mourns the loss of a friend and colleague," the Capitol Police statement said. 

While defending the U.S. House and Senate overrun by rioters Wednesday, Capitol Police also were forced to defend themselves. Three congressional and police sources tell News4 that at least 60 officers suffered injuries.

Four other people died Wednesday.

(NBC Washington)​

_Given the mentality of some folk in here, I'm sure they'll say the officer's condition - heart attack or whatever - which occurred after the riot and back at the station, was entirely unrelated and in no way should be counted among the Capitol Hill Riot Death record, that authorities are artificially inflating the numbers to make President Trump Our Saviour look bad...._


----------



## Freddie_Biff

WCraig said:


> “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
> George Orwell, 1984
> 
> 
> Craig



Funny, but that’s almost identical to something Trump said. Something about not believing what you see and hear.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> "John Sullivan is the founder of the civil rights group Insurgence USA and does not align politically with President Donald Trump, but has been in D.C. this week for several planned protests including Wednesday’s rally at the Capitol."
> 
> "A social justice leader from Utah was seen in Washington, DC, Wednesday to document the historic moment when thousands of pro-Trump protestors stormed the US Capitol."
> 
> "John Sullivan, who founded Insurgence USA, a group that stands against police brutality, told KUTV he was on the frontlines when rioters broke into Capitol Hill and attacked police."
> 
> From what else I read, Insurgence USA is interested in police brutality. Stands to reason he'd be there to witness an event like this.


This doesn't sound a lot like someone who is vehemently opposed to police brutality:



> “I have video of it,” he said, describing in detail seeing the flash of the gun, the bullet strike Babbitt, and Babbitt’s reaction as she died there on the floor. “I am hesitant to post it. ... It’s something I have to take in. I hope that people get a grasp of that situation. *Whoever shot her, maybe should be held accountable. I guess that’s up to the law to decide.”*


https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1...first-to-try-and-enter-house-chamber-sullivan


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Wait a sec! We doing proof now?


It goes one way only, ya know....


----------



## CubaMark

*Related:* "Twitter, Facebook, Instagram suspend Trump’s accounts after Capitol building stormed" (Global News)


----------



## Macfury

My take on this event. I personally believe Trump wanted a peaceful demonstration of massive size showing the legislators inside the capitol that there were real people who were watching certification and objections to certification as a form of passive intimidation. If Trump had wanted people to storm the capitol, throw out the douchebags from both parties and occupy the building, I think he could have managed to make it happen. 

Regardless of our opinions, these are facts, at least as far as I can determine:


Capitol Police were offered federal assistance earlier in the week, but turned it down. (That could be by incompetence, by design, or by poor decison-making). 

Law enforcement officers were warned in advance that protests could be infiltrated by other groups.

Trump has no control over the Capitol Police. They answer to Congress, not the President.

More than one officer is seen on video actively encouraging people through barriers that the police themselves were removing. They are removing gates, opening doors and gesturing to people gathered there to enter various areas.

Some people at the front of the incursion into the capitol building are dressed in black and wearing helmets associated with Antifa. Some people are calling out "It's Antifa" and trying to stop them from breaking the glass.

Some of the people entering the building are associated with groups that have nothing in common with pro-Trump protesters.

Some pro-Trump protesters are also breaking glass, damaging property and acting in defiance of police.

Some members of other groups, such as Antifa, have filmed themselves taking responsibility for breaching the Capitol.

Many Republicans who agreed to object to the certification of electors from various states claimed they changed their minds because protesters breached the Capitol.

It appears to me that this is an event that was encouraged to "go wrong" to serve the "uniparty" members of the U.S. government. It gave uniparty Republicans an excuse to go back on their promises to challenge electors. It prevented any discussion of electoral fraud, which benefits uniparty members from both parties, from being heard or entered into the Congressional record. It gives uniparty members from both sides a chance to implement more widespread censorship on social platforms. 

We can claim that no left-wing groups were violent, or that no Trump supporters were violent and battle each other across the political aisle--both positions are unsupportable. I believe that events like these are designed to sow significant confusion and in-fighting among members of the public, while the instigators enjoy the benefits of what they've supported.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark, think of what you're saying here. You grab a ****ty meme because you're feeling emotional, but are you seriously implying that some oligarch douchebag who runs Twitter has any moral authority to make these decisions? Are these the people you support?



CubaMark said:


> *Related:* "Twitter, Facebook, Instagram suspend Trump’s accounts after Capitol building stormed" (Global News)


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> This doesn't sound a lot like someone who is vehemently opposed to police brutality:


I'm not sure we'll arrive at the same conclusion on this: I feel if you're going to be opposed to a thing, you should try and actually witness said thing first hand. I see nothing to show his presence was anything other than what he claimed.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> My take on this event. I personally believe Trump wanted a peaceful demonstration of massive size showing the legislators inside the capitol that there were real people who were watching certification and objections to certification as a form of passive intimidation. If Trump had wanted people to storm the capitol, throw out the douchebags from both parties and occupy the building, I think he could have managed to make it happen.
> 
> Regardless of our opinions, these are facts, at least as far as I can determine:
> 
> 
> Capitol Police were offered federal assistance earlier in the week, but turned it down. (That could be by incompetence, by design, or by poor decison-making).
> 
> Law enforcement officers were warned in advance that protests could be infiltrated by other groups.
> 
> Trump has no control over the Capitol Police. They answer to Congress, not the President.
> 
> More than one officer is seen on video actively encouraging people through barriers that the police themselves were removing. They are removing gates, opening doors and gesturing to people gathered there to enter various areas.
> 
> Some people at the front of the incursion into the capitol building are dressed in black and wearing helmets associated with Antifa. Some people are calling out "It's Antifa" and trying to stop them from breaking the glass.
> 
> Some of the people entering the building are associated with groups that have nothing in common with pro-Trump protesters.
> 
> Some pro-Trump protesters are also breaking glass, damaging property and acting in defiance of police.
> 
> Some members of other groups, such as Antifa, have filmed themselves taking responsibility for breaching the Capitol.
> 
> Many Republicans who agreed to object to the certification of electors from various states claimed they changed their minds because protesters breached the Capitol.
> 
> It appears to me that this is an event that was encouraged to "go wrong" to serve the "uniparty" members of the U.S. government. It gave uniparty Republicans an excuse to go back on their promises to challenge electors. It prevented any discussion of electoral fraud, which benefits uniparty members from both parties, from being heard or entered into the Congressional record. It gives uniparty members from both sides a chance to implement more widespread censorship on social platforms.
> 
> We can claim that no left-wing groups were violent, or that no Trump supporters were violent and battle each other across the political aisle--both positions are unsupportable. I believe that events like these are designed to sow significant confusion and in-fighting among members of the public, while the instigators enjoy the benefits of what they've supported.


I agree with pretty much all of this.

But I would add that,

Trump is the one in his speech that said they would march from the rally to Capitol Hill and he would come with them. 

“We are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women,” he continued, “and we are probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them — because you will never take back our country with weakness.”

This is where it all took a turn. They should have just stayed put.

He should never have said that. Guiliani should not have said what he said (lets be honest the man should never be allowed to speak) and don't get me started on Eric...


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I agree with pretty much all of this.
> 
> But I would add that,
> 
> Trump is the one in his speech that said they would march from the rally to Capitol Hill and he would come with them. .


The plan was always to march from the Ellipse to Capitol Hill (perfectly legal), but not to enter the Capitol Building (map attached for reference).

So here are the salient statements from Trump's speech.



> Thank you. I’d love to have, if those tens of thousands of people would be allowed, the military, the secret service, and we want to thank you, and the police law enforcement. Great. You’re doing a great job, but I’d love it if they could be allowed to come up here with us. Is that possible? Can you just let them come up, please?





> Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we’re going to walk down *and I’ll be there with you. *We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.





> So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America.


If there's any ambiguity, it would be in the first statement, although typical of Trump's jocular style. The second and third statements seem to indicate simply walking along Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, which is fine.

So is your opinion that the police took the first statement as direct instruction to remove all barriers to entry into the Capitol Building?

Trump also did not "walk with the people" to the Capitol, though exactly how that played out is not clear to me.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> The plan was always to march from the Ellipse to Capitol Hill (perfectly legal), but not to enter the Capitol Building (map attached for reference).
> 
> So here are the salient statements from Trump's speech.
> 
> If there's any ambiguity, it would be in the first statement, although typical of Trump's jocular style. The second and third statements seem to indicate simply walking along Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, which is fine.
> 
> So is your opinion that the police took the first statement as direct instruction to remove all barriers to entry into the Capitol Building?
> 
> Trump also did not "walk with the people" to the Capitol, though exactly how that played out is not clear to me.


I don't think there is much value to line by line reviewing Trumps speech. But if you want to I am game. But we should post the whole thing and Rudy's and Eric's.

In my view it's clear he amped up the crowd. Whatever protest, legal or otherwise changed by his words to the crowd. As we've seen constantly in the past 4 years he's results oriented. He doesn't care what he says or does if gets the results he wants. He could care less about consequence or collateral damage.

I don't think his speech changed the actions of the capitol police. But that is supposition on my part. I think all plans made in regards to law enforcement centered on there being a rally not a riot. Maybe the fact that he said he would be with them changed things. I don't know. Maybe capitol police thought there was a chance Trump staff could be mixed in with the crowd. Won't know until the reports and interviews come out (if they do).


----------



## Freddie_Biff

.


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> I don't think there is much value to line by line reviewing Trumps speech. But if you want to I am game. But we should post the whole thing and Rudy's and Eric's.
> 
> In my view it's clear he amped up the crowd. Whatever protest, legal or otherwise changed by his words to the crowd. As we've seen constantly in the past 4 years he's results oriented. He doesn't care what he says or does if gets the results he wants. He could care less about consequence or collateral damage.
> 
> I don't think his speech changed the actions of the capitol police. But that is supposition on my part. I think all plans made in regards to law enforcement centered on there being a rally not a riot. Maybe the fact that he said he would be with them changed things. I don't know. Maybe capitol police thought there was a chance Trump staff could be mixed in with the crowd. Won't know until the reports and interviews come out (if they do).


I think he amped up the crowd, but they were already amped up to support what they believed would be a review of electoral fraud allegations. The question is, why did the crowd begin to enter the building?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think he amped up the crowd, but they were already amped up to support what they believed would be a review of electoral fraud allegations. The question is, why did the crowd begin to enter the building?


Why was the crowd amped up to support what they believed would be a review of electoral fraud allegations? Who suggested that possibility to them? After sixty failed lawsuits anyone with half a brain would have already taken the hint, just as Dear Leader seemed too finally do yesterday when he threw his supporters under the bus and denounced their "heinous" acts. The crowd entered the building because they overpowered the security/police who knew they were outnumbered. They should have of course realized that the day would turn out something like this and had extra manpower, but as it was, the Trump supporters/rioters just looked look idiots anyway which is just as well.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why was the crowd amped up to support what they believed would be a review of electoral fraud allegations? Who suggested that possibility to them? After sixty failed lawsuits anyone with half a brain would have already taken the hint, just as Dear Leader seemed too finally do yesterday when he threw his supporters under the bus and denounced their "heinous" acts. The crowd entered the building because they overpowered the security/police who knew they were outnumbered. They should have of course realized that the day would turn out something like this and had extra manpower, but as it was, the Trump supporters/rioters just looked look idiots anyway which is just as well.


 Well it has certainly established the extreme level of judicial corruption, as many of those suits were solidly based. Anyone who followed the Bundy family ordeal were already aware of how corrupt US courts were.

Interesting that the lamestream has made no mention of the 3 busloads of Antifa provocateurs that $oro$ brought in, including Buffalo Man an actor who has been employed by both Antifa and Trump supporters. No idea who paid his way from Arizona this trip. 

The unarmed women was executed by a DC cop. Wanna bet there won't be any BLM protests over her death?


----------



## eMacMan

What makes this little bruha ha interesting is of course that Twitter is blocking President Trump's account.


https://www.coloradopolitics.com/de...cle_32ec6f08-51d0-11eb-9c8d-ff6cd7486fed.html




> Colorado’s first-year congresswoman, Rep. Lauren Boebert, R-Rifle, continues to make a name for herself in her first week in office.
> 
> But that’s come with a lot of criticism, and part of her response, at least on one social media platform — Twitter — is to block people.
> 
> That could leave her open to lawsuits, based on others filed against elected officials for doing the same thing, including President Donald Trump.
> 
> Several people have notified Colorado Politics that the gun-toting rep has blocked them on her @laurenboebert account, one of two that she holds. The second — @repboebert — appears to primarily retweet posts from the first account.
> 
> Blocking users has gotten Trump sued multiple times.
> 
> Among those blocked this week by Boebert: outgoing Rep. Bri Buentello, a Pueblo Democrat, who has not been shy about criticizing Boebert throughout the campaign. Boebert represents the 3rd Congressional District, where Buentello lives.





> The Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University sued President Trump in 2017 after he started blocking users on Twitter. In 2018, Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald ruled that Trump violated the First Amendment in blocking users. The Institute has since filed a second lawsuit, also on Trump’s blocking of users on his @realdonaldtrump account.
> 
> “This case requires us to consider whether a public official may, consistent with the First Amendment, ‘block’ a person from his Twitter account in response to the political views that person has expressed, and whether the analysis differs because that public official is the President of the United States. The answer to both questions is no,” Buchwald wrote.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> What makes this little bruha ha interesting is of course that Twitter is blocking President Trump's account.
> 
> 
> https://www.coloradopolitics.com/de...cle_32ec6f08-51d0-11eb-9c8d-ff6cd7486fed.html



And why on earth shouldn’t they? Trump is a danger to himself and others.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> What makes this little bruha ha interesting is of course that Twitter is blocking President Trump's account.
> 
> 
> https://www.coloradopolitics.com/de...cle_32ec6f08-51d0-11eb-9c8d-ff6cd7486fed.html


All of the "little men" in the world will cheer this... and eventually find themselves marginalized.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> And why on earth shouldn’t they? Trump is a danger to himself and others.


 As opposed to Biden who is firmly committed to banning the breathing of fresh air. Sorry but both sides of that coin are equally evil, and shutting down someone you disagree with is a cornerstone of Tyranny. Stalin, Adolph and many others have blazed that trail. Only an idiot would follow it voluntarily. 

Which might explain those million or so protestors in Washington, DC.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> As opposed to Biden who is firmly committed to banning the breathing of fresh air. Sorry but both sides of that coin are equally evil, and shutting down someone you disagree with is a cornerstone of Tyranny. Stalin, Adolph and many others have blazed that trail. Only an idiot would follow it voluntarily.
> 
> Which might explain those million or so protestors in Washington, DC.



The rioters, you mean? I would say that they’ve definitely been following that trail by following Trump. You’re right. Millions of idiots for sure. At least 75 million according to Dear Leader.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Well it has certainly established the extreme level of judicial corruption, as many of those suits were solidly based. Anyone who followed the Bundy family ordeal were already aware of how corrupt US courts were.


Uh no. "Solidly based" is way more than stretch.



> The unarmed women was executed by a DC cop. Wanna bet there won't be any BLM protests over her death?


Come on.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> The rioters, you mean? I would say that they’ve definitely been following that trail by following Trump. You’re right. Millions of idiots for sure. At least 75 million according to Dear Leader.



As usual you focus on something other than the key sentence which was:
"Sorry but both sides of that coin are equally evil, and *shutting down someone you disagree with is a cornerstone of Tyranny. Stalin, Adolph and many others have blazed that trail. Only an idiot would follow it voluntarily" *


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> As usual you focus on something other than the key sentence which was:
> "Sorry but both sides of that coin are equally evil, and *shutting down someone you disagree with is a cornerstone of Tyranny. Stalin, Adolph and many others have blazed that trail. Only an idiot would follow it voluntarily" *



I am ignoring it because it’s wrong. “Both sides” are not equally evil. Only one side—Trump’s followers—stormed the Capitol building on Wednesday and attempted an insurrection. You’d have to be an idiot not to see that.


----------



## WCraig

If you haven't seen it, the following is a thread of 200 tweets from Seth Abramson dissecting Trump's speech before the attack on the Capitol. He makes a strong case that Trump planned the insurrection and incited the mob to do exactly what he wanted.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347908845281095680.html

Long but well worth your time.

Craig


----------



## eMacMan

WCraig said:


> If you haven't seen it, the following is a thread of 200 tweets from Seth Abramson dissecting Trump's speech before the attack on the Capitol. He makes a strong case that Trump planned the insurrection and incited the mob to do exactly what he wanted.
> 
> https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347908845281095680.html
> 
> Long but well worth your time.
> 
> Craig


Let's see, he spoke to over a million people right there in DC. DC police admitted a very few of them into the building. 

Buffalo Man is a professional actor from Arizona, and has appeared at demonstrations supporting either side, so the only question is who paid him this time?

The unarmed woman was shot at close range in the head by a DC cop, I think she was the one shouting; "They're anti-fa...," Wanna bet there are no riots over her execution? 

The man who stole the dias was also unarmed and has been arrested in Florida. He is an unaffiliated voter. 

Then there are the two that have been clearly identified as Antifa supporters at previous demonstrations.

So out of over a million, a handful got out of hand, were aided and abetted by the DC police, and that somehow makes imposing censorship on the president of the US a good thing? Sounds like something out of an Orwellian Logic 101 course. 
*
If you love censorship, then living in a nation governed by tyrants is going to be your ultimate wet-dream.*


----------



## CubaMark

Some very fine people in the Trump-incited takeover of the Capitol...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Pelosi is doing the right thing. So is Pence, for that matter. So have all the Republicans who have had enough of this ****eshow. So are the Trump staffers who have resigned. Somebody should have taken away Trump’s Twitter account four years ago when he was first sworn in. And there were nowhere near a million rioters. The insurrection was definitely planned ahead of time and encouraged by Trump. Watch Michael Moore’s commentary on the day if you want to learn something. 

https://youtu.be/tQCsVVVknzQ


----------



## smashedbanana

eMacMan said:


> Let's see, he spoke to over a million people right there in DC. DC police admitted a very few of them into the building.


So how many people entered is important? 1 shooter enter parliament hill here in Ottawa. 

This kind of justification is gross.



> Buffalo Man is a professional actor from Arizona, and has appeared at demonstrations supporting either side, so the only question is who paid him this time?


Says who. He was arrested, he said he came to DC following Trumps statements. There are photos of him at other Trump rallies. Wearing the same get up.



> The unarmed woman was shot at close range in the head by a DC cop, I think she was the one shouting; "They're anti-fa...," Wanna bet there are no riots over her execution?


How about some proof of that (the statement not the shooting). 

And where is your discussion of the Capitol Police officer who was killed. A Veteran with family. 



> The man who stole the dias was also unarmed and has been arrested in Florida. He is an unaffiliated voter.


I guess you have his voting records.



> Then there are the two that have been clearly identified as Antifa supporters at previous demonstrations.


Ok.



> So out of over a million, a handful got out of hand, were aided and abetted by the DC police, and that somehow makes imposing censorship on the president of the US a good thing? Sounds like something out of an Orwellian Logic 101 course. *
> If you love censorship, then living in a nation governed by tyrants is going to be your ultimate wet-dream.*


Investigation is ongoing. No proof of that yet.

Strong indicators of at least 1 republican opening doors though...

Twitter is a company not a state.
They will do what is best for them and you are delusional if you think it's some sort of state sanction. 

The same reason they left Donald alone is the same reason they are suspending his account now. The free, good press.


----------



## macintosh doctor

CubaMark said:


> Some very fine people in the Trump-incited takeover of the Capitol...


I am shocked from a guy that supports revolution and communism why are you so concerned ? lol 
not to mention those were paid liberals dressed up in trump banners.


----------



## eMacMan

I am sure this has the politically correct crowd dancing in the aisle, their masters however do demand they hide behind masks and refrain from singing. As to the rest of us it sure is a head scratcher.
https://gazette.com/premium/editori...cle_89b74fe8-4e3c-11eb-91db-b385a280f876.html
Have quoted the whole thing as the Gazette does love its paywall.



> What started out as an earnest effort by some to remove statues glorifying a rebellion by the slavery-defending Confederacy has devolved into an absurd effort to destroy all vestiges of the past. Things became especially stupid in Boston as 2020 came to a close, with the city removing the Emancipation Memorial.
> 
> Viewed without any context or understanding of its history, it appears to show a slave kneeling before President Abraham Lincoln. In actuality, what the statue depicts is Lincoln holding the Emancipation Proclamation and the slave, shackles broken, looking forward toward his freedom.
> 
> The Boston statue is actually a reproduction of the Freedman’s Memorial in Washington, D.C. The original monument was financed by small contributions raised by black people, most of whom were emancipated slaves.
> 
> As Frederick Douglass biographer David Blight has written, when the statue was dedicated, it was a triumphant moment for liberated black people.
> 
> “A huge parade involving nearly every black organization in the city preceded the dedication of the monument on April 14, 1876,” he wrote. “The procession included cornet bands, marching drum corps, youth clubs in colorful uniforms and fraternal orders. Horse-drawn carriages transported master of ceremonies and Howard University law school dean, John Mercer Langston, and the orator of the day, Frederick Douglass, a resident of that neighborhood.
> 
> Representatives of the entire U.S. government sat in the front rows at the ceremony; the occasion had been declared a federal holiday. President Ulysses S. Grant, members of his Cabinet, members of the House and Senate and justices of the Supreme Court all attended.”
> 
> The historian noted that Douglass’s speech represented the first time that a black orator addressed the full government.
> 
> Blight contended that while, by today’s standards, the Washington statue could be argued to contain racist imagery, it should not be removed. He wrote: “Please consider the people who created it and what it meant for their lives in a century not our own. We ought not try to purify their past and present for our needs.”
> 
> The same should go to the replica statue in Boston. It is crucial to our understanding of history to know how past generations viewed themselves.
> 
> As attitudes and perceptions change over time, it is perfectly appropriate for certain monuments of the past to be given more context. In this case, perhaps children visiting could be prompted to reflect on how depictions of slaves changed over time. They could think about how they perceive the monument and study why black people at the time viewed it differently.
> 
> Today’s woke police eschew nuance and want to move full speed ahead with destroying all representations of a past they view as racist rather than seeking to understand its complexity.
> 
> During his speech dedicating the original monument, Douglass reflected upon this approach to history. He criticized Lincoln for initially advocating the strategy of resettling slaves in another country, among other things. But he praised him for eventually embracing emancipation.
> 
> If a famed escaped slave who lived for years as a fugitive and had plenty to be angry about could embrace such nuance, then it should be incumbent upon all of us to do so.


----------



## Dr.G.

Well, Trump outwitted them all. As the old saying goes "The person with light is powerful". The lights were flickering on and off all night at the White House. I watched a CNN reporter outside of the WH but noticed a pattern to the flickering lights. Luckily, my years of being a cub scout paid off. It was Morse Code. dot dot …….. dot dash dash …….. dash dot (for those who don't know Morse Code it reads " I won"). They can take Twitter away from Trump, but he still has the last word.


----------



## Macfury

Viva the Establishment!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Pelosi is doing the right thing. So is Pence, for that matter. So have all the Republicans who have had enough of this ****eshow. So are the Trump staffers who have resigned. Somebody should have taken away Trump’s Twitter account four years ago when he was first sworn in. And there were nowhere near a million rioters. The insurrection was definitely planned ahead of time and encouraged by Trump. Watch Michael Moore’s commentary on the day if you want to learn something.
> 
> https://youtu.be/tQCsVVVknzQ


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> I am sure this has the politically correct crowd dancing in the aisle, their masters however do demand they hide behind masks and refrain from singing. As to the rest of us it sure is a head scratcher.
> https://gazette.com/premium/editori...cle_89b74fe8-4e3c-11eb-91db-b385a280f876.html
> Have quoted the whole thing as the Gazette does love its paywall.


Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, but in this case it does provide helpful context:

*Criticism*

Rodney Young of American University wrote that:[3]

_If there is one slavery monument whose origins are highly political, the Freedman's memorial is it. The development process for this memorial started immediately after Abraham Lincoln's assassination and ended, appropriately enough, near the end of Reconstruction in 1876. In many ways, it exemplified and reflected the hopes, dreams, striving, and ultimate failures of reconstruction.​_The monument has been criticized for its paternalistic character and for not doing justice to the role that African Americans played in their own liberation. While the funds for the monument were raised from former slaves, a white artist conceived the original design. An alternative design depicting Lincoln with uniformed black Union soldiers was rejected as too expensive. According to historian Kirk Savage, a witness to the memorial's dedication recorded Frederick Douglass as saying that the statue "showed the ***** on his knees when a more manly attitude would have been indicative of freedom".[14][15] In a recently uncovered letter from Douglass that appeared in the National Republican five days after the dedication, he said that the monument did not tell the "whole truth".[16]

_Admirable as is the monument by Mr. Ball in Lincoln park, it does not, as it seems to me, tell the whole truth, and perhaps no one monument could be made to tell the whole truth of any subject which it might be designed to illustrate. The mere act of breaking the *****'s chains was the act of Abraham Lincoln, and is beautifully expressed in this monument. But the act by which the ***** was made a citizen of the United States and invested with the elective franchise was pre-eminently the act of President U.S. Grant, and this is nowhere seen in the Lincoln monument. 

The ***** here, though rising, is still on his knees and nude. What I want to see before I die is a monument representing the *****, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man. There is room in Lincoln park for another monument, and I throw out this suggestion to the end that it may be taken up and acted upon.​_
White and Sandage, who rediscovered the letter, saw in it "a solution to the current impasse" over the Emancipation Memorial. Since no one statue could provide the whole truth, they suggested enriching the memorial group by adding statues of Charlotte Scott, whose contribution began the process, and Frederick Douglass, who dedicated the original monument, to create a new "Emancipation Group", as the monument was sometimes called.[16] 

Lincoln biographer, Sidney Blumenthal, noted that the kneeling slave was a widespread abolitionist motif, appearing on the masthead of William Lloyd Garrison's abolitionist newspaper, The Liberator.[17]​









Yale History professor David Blight takes an opposing position, arguing it should not be removed (interview here).


----------



## smashedbanana

Here are 5 Confirmed fatalities:

*Brian Sicknick *- Capitol Police Officer and veteran - hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, succumbed to injuries

*Ashli Babbitt *- shot in the neck while trying to break into Nancy Pelosi's office. 
Strong conspiracy theory follower.
Posted this in response to Kamala Harris about first 100 day plan with vaccines:
“No the **** you will not!” Ashli Babbitt replied to Harris. “No masks, no you, 
no Biden the kid raper, no vaccines...sit your fraudulent ass down…we the ppl bitch!”
*
Benjamin Phillips* - Medical emergency. Trump supporter

*Kevin Greeson* - Heart attack [History of high blood pressure] - strong Trump supporter, family denies had anything to do with the violence.

*Rosanne Boyland* - Medical emergency, unconfirmed but may have been trampled


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> Officer allowing people into the area, making only token gestures with a baton as he reached each landing, then giving complete way to people entering the building. This is supposed to be a heavily guarded area with top-level security. This looks like a set-up.


So this officer, now hailed as a hero was baiting the rioters to follow him to an area where police surrounded them.

His name is Eugene Goodman and the entire video is available everywhere.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

smashedbanana said:


> So this officer, now hailed as a hero was baiting the rioters to follow him to an area where police surrounded them.
> 
> His name is Eugene Goodman and the entire video is available everywhere.



Things are not always as they seem. Well done, Officer Goodman.


----------



## eMacMan

smashedbanana said:


> Here are 5 Confirmed fatalities:
> 
> *...*
> 
> *Ashli Babbitt *- shot in the neck while trying to break into Nancy Pelosi's office.
> Strong conspiracy theory follower.
> Posted this in response to Kamala Harris about first 100 day plan with vaccines:
> “No the **** you will not!” Ashli Babbitt replied to Harris. “No masks, no you,
> no Biden the kid raper, no vaccines...sit your fraudulent ass down…we the ppl bitch!”
> *
> ...*



Interesting a lot of background there, none of which the shooter could possibly have been aware. Smearing the victim to deflect attention away from the fact that she was unarmed. Not at all sure how being aware that these vaccines have not been properly tested, and that masks are useless makes her an evil person deserving of execution. But then I insist on unrestricted breathing, so having avoided rebreathing my own exhaust fumes my thinking remains clear.

Also interesting how that gentleman from Arkansas was able to enter Pelosi's office without hindrance, and pose with his feet on her desk. Finally arrested a few days later at home in Arkansas. If entering Pelosi's office is a Capital offense why is he still alive?


----------



## eMacMan

I see I am not the only one who wondered about this:


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> I see I am not the only one who wondered about this:
> View attachment 93272


I saw a similar image on CNN and was not exactly sure what I was seeing as it was so bizarre that with all the chaos they were following the rules of the velvet rope.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I saw a similar image on CNN and was not exactly sure what I was seeing as it was so bizarre that with all the chaos they were following the rules of the velvet rope.


As someone appropriately stated, this incursion was an insurrection as _Hamilton the Musical _is to the _American Revolution._ It was a cluster**** no doubt, but one that could have been prevented by appropriate controls and professional policing.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan said:


> If entering Pelosi's office is a Capital offense why is he still alive?


Well, the answer is in your spelling. It was a Capit*o*l offense, not a Capit*a*l offense, hence the kid gloves. :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

(Reddit)


----------



## Macfury

smashedbanana said:


> So this officer, now hailed as a hero was baiting the rioters to follow him to an area where police surrounded them.
> 
> His name is Eugene Goodman and the entire video is available everywhere.


That seems totally bizarre, given that he could have been leading hundreds of people upstairs.


----------



## smashedbanana

Macfury said:


> That seems totally bizarre, given that he could have been leading hundreds of people upstairs.


Have you watched the entire video?


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> As someone appropriately stated, this incursion was an insurrection as _Hamilton the Musical _is to the _American Revolution._ It was a cluster**** no doubt, but one that could have been prevented by appropriate controls and professional policing.


I am beginning to believe that at this point in time, 'professional policing' should be considered an example of an Oxymoron.

FWIW death via heart attack should not be included in any demonstration death toll, and the Fire extinguisher tale is at odds with witnesses, but of course official narratives have no regard for or relation to the truth. If they did they would be labeled conspiracy theories and ridiculed by all true believers.


----------



## CubaMark

Now there are reports that at least one Republican member of Congress had provided a guided tour of the building to some of those people who would later storm the Capitol. 

Some of the insurrectionists came equipped with zip ties (used to bind hands and feet), among other offensive gear. 

The Hill reports that Rep. Ayanna Pressley's office had its "panic buttons" removed - without notifying her - prior to that day. 

Pressley is one of the four Democrat politicians known colloquially as 'the squad' and are a frequent target of the right-wing nutbars, with several documented threats of violence. One wonders what some of those insurrectionists had planned for her...

All very interesting.


----------



## wonderings

CubaMark said:


> Now there are reports that at least one Republican member of Congress had provided a guided tour of the building to some of those people who would later storm the Capitol.
> 
> Some of the insurrectionists came equipped with zip ties (used to bind hands and feet), among other offensive gear.
> 
> The Hill reports that Rep. Ayanna Pressley's office had its "panic buttons" removed - without notifying her - prior to that day.
> 
> Pressley is one of the four Democrat politicians known colloquially as 'the squad' and are a frequent target of the right-wing nutbars, with several documented threats of violence. One wonders what some of those insurrectionists had planned for her...
> 
> All very interesting.


Not sure what charges would be appropriate but I do hope any and all charges possible are thrown at the people who came with premeditated equipment like zip ties.


----------



## CubaMark

*U.S. says Capitol rioters meant to 'capture and assassinate' officials: court filing*











Federal prosecutors offered an ominous new assessment of last week's siege of the U.S. Capitol by President Donald Trump's supporters on Thursday, saying in a court filing that rioters intended "to capture and assassinate elected officials."

Prosecutors offered that view in a filing asking a judge to detain Jacob Chansley, the Arizona man and QAnon conspiracy theorist who was famously photographed wearing horns as he stood at the desk of Vice-President Mike Pence in the chamber of the U.S. Senate.

The detention memo, written by Justice Department lawyers in Arizona, goes into greater detail about the FBI's investigation into Chansley, revealing that he left a note for Pence warning that "it's only a matter of time, justice is coming."

"Strong evidence, including Chansley's own words and actions at the Capitol, supports that the intent of the Capitol rioters was to capture and assassinate elected officials in the United States government," prosecutors wrote.

* * *​
The prosecutors' assessment comes as prosecutors and federal agents have begun bringing more serious charges tied to violence at the Capitol, including revealing cases Thursday against one man, retired firefighter Robert Sanford, on charges that he hurled a fire extinguisher at the head of one police officer and another, Peter Stager, of beating a different officer with a pole bearing an American flag.

* * *​
The Justice Department has brought more than 80 criminal cases in connection with the violent riots at the U.S. Capitol last week, in which Trump's supporters stormed the building, ransacked offices and, in some cases, attacked police.

Many of the people charged so far were easily tracked down by the FBI, which has more than 200 suspects, thanks in large part to videos and photos posted on social media.

Michael Sherwin, the acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, has said that while many of the initial charges may seem minor, he expects much more serious charges to be filed as the Justice Department continues its investigation.

(CBC)​
*Let's not forget President Donald Trump's message to the insurrectionists:*

_"We Love You. You're Special."​_
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8PHImxb8Po[/ame]​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sure is quiet around here since Trump lost the election. Any predictions for Biden’s and Harris’s inauguration on Wednesday?


----------



## Rps

I believe the powers that be have rescinded that the mob was there to assassinate members....but this will keep the conspiracy theories going for another two years. So I’ll leave you with two thoughts....Demosthenes said the easiest thing of all is to deceive oneself; for we believe whatever we want to believe.....the other is Moynihan....You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Rps said:


> I believe the powers that be have rescinded that the mob was there to assassinate members....but this will keep the conspiracy theories going for another two years. So I’ll leave you with two thoughts....Demosthenes said the easiest thing of all is to deceive oneself; for we believe whatever we want to believe.....the other is Moynihan....You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.....



I believe the mob WAS there to try and assassinate members and to force the representatives to change their minds about the votes. That’s what the zip ties were for—taking hostages. The mob was just not very good at it, probably because their leader was inept. Thank god for small miracles.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> I believe the powers that be have rescinded that the mob was there to assassinate members....but this will keep the conspiracy theories going for another two years. So I’ll leave you with two thoughts....Demosthenes said the easiest thing of all is to deceive oneself; for we believe whatever we want to believe.....the other is Moynihan....You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.....


What's *YOUR* explanation for the insurrectionists' packing zip ties?

I mean, I know that* I *hardly ever leave the house without a couple of bands of 'em strapped to my waist, just in case I need to secure something, but everybody has their own uses.... :lmao:


----------



## Rps

CubaMark said:


> What's *YOUR* explanation for the insurrectionists' packing zip ties?
> 
> I mean, I know that* I *hardly ever leave the house without a couple of bands of 'em strapped to my waist, just in case I need to secure something, but everybody has their own uses.... :lmao:


CubaMark, I would agree but the DOJ released this on Jan 15,

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/capitol-capture-assassinate-elected-officials/index.html


----------



## groovetube

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I would agree but the DOJ released this on Jan 15,
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/capitol-capture-assassinate-elected-officials/index.html


I saw that too, though further down it says that Texas prosecutors are still alleging that the Air Force reservist intended to, I guess given his social media posts and the fact he was photographed with a number of zip ties. Probably just prosecutors cleaning out the dreck for the other people charged where there wasn’t direct evidence like the zip ties that the reservist had.


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> What's *YOUR* explanation for the insurrectionists' packing zip ties?
> 
> I mean, I know that* I *hardly ever leave the house without a couple of bands of 'em strapped to my waist, just in case I need to secure something, but everybody has their own uses.... :lmao:


I have a pile of them but I use them to bundle cables into neat lines. Maybe that’s what he was doing you know? He thought the senate floor had a very messy cabling system and he had bad ocd 😂


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Zip ties are definitely useful for keeping things neat and tidy.


----------



## CubaMark

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I would agree but the DOJ released this on Jan 15,
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/politics/capitol-capture-assassinate-elected-officials/index.html


As groovetube noted:

"Todd Allison, a line prosecutor for the Justice Department in Arizona, said DOJ may want to argue that type of assertion if Chansley goes to trial, but cannot say that at the moment.

"We do not want to mislead the court by discussing the strength of any specific evidence" related to his intent, Allison said."​


----------



## CubaMark

Tomorrow's the big day, when the Cheetoh-in-Chief's band of ruffians and ne'er-do-wells receive their "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards... 



_by and large, Trump's pardon record has broken with historical norms. Many of the high-profile criminals he has pardoned have shown little contrition or remorse for their crimes and few have argued they were wrongfully convicted.

He is expected to adhere to that record on Tuesday when he issues around 100 pardons or commutations. The final batch of clemency actions is expected to include a mix of criminal justice reform-minded pardons and more controversial ones secured or doled out to political allies. 

White collar criminals, high-profile rappers and a prominent eye doctor from Palm Beach, Florida, who is in prison after being convicted on dozens of counts of health care fraud, are expected to be on the list._

(Trump's 11th-hour pardons keep with tradition, even if those pardoned do not-CNN)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Tomorrow's the big day, when the Cheetoh-in-Chief's band of ruffians and ne'er-do-wells receive their "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards...
> 
> 
> 
> _by and large, Trump's pardon record has broken with historical norms. Many of the high-profile criminals he has pardoned have shown little contrition or remorse for their crimes and few have argued they were wrongfully convicted.
> 
> He is expected to adhere to that record on Tuesday when he issues around 100 pardons or commutations. The final batch of clemency actions is expected to include a mix of criminal justice reform-minded pardons and more controversial ones secured or doled out to political allies.
> 
> White collar criminals, high-profile rappers and a prominent eye doctor from Palm Beach, Florida, who is in prison after being convicted on dozens of counts of health care fraud, are expected to be on the list._
> 
> (Trump's 11th-hour pardons keep with tradition, even if those pardoned do not-CNN)​



I guess if he honestly believes there are good people “on both sides” then he can rationalize pretty much anything. The deplorable will be thankful, kind of like the time Barabas was set free even though he didn’t deserve it either.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> I guess if he honestly believes there are good people “on both sides” then he can rationalize pretty much anything. The deplorable will be thankful, kind of like the time Barabas was set free even though he didn’t deserve it either.


Pardon the mockery here (or not) but after having to listen to numbskulls everywhere parroting whatever the Russian troll farms are belching that day out... bu -u-but you'll love what's comin next! they'll release the voter fraud evidence in uh, in uh 2 weeks! yeah! Right after the beeeeeeeeyoooooooutiful health care plan!!!! All that boasting about how people who don't like Trump are gonna be sooo upset come jan 20. 

Im not feeling too bad myself thank ya! :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Pardon the mockery here (or not) but after having to listen to numbskulls everywhere parroting whatever the Russian troll farms are belching that day out... bu -u-but you'll love what's comin next! they'll release the voter fraud evidence in uh, in uh 2 weeks! yeah! Right after the beeeeeeeeyoooooooutiful health care plan!!!! All that boasting about how people who don't like Trump are gonna be sooo upset come jan 20.
> 
> Im not feeling too bad myself thank ya! :clap::clap::clap:



I love that Jan 20 is tomorrow. Time’s up. And the conspiracy nut jobs are going on about the Insurrection Act of 1807 as though that’s somehow going to save them. Even when Trump becomes the former president there’s still a lot of brainwashed people out there.


----------



## 18m2

*



Most 2020 GOP voters say President-Elect Biden will do a worse job handling COVID-19 than Trump

Click to expand...

*  Could it be any worse?

a link to an Angus Reid pole


----------



## eMacMan

Timeline is of interest. Make of it what you will, but remember it is at least 45 minutes from the speech location to the Capitol building. Probably a lot longer than that, given the estimated million plus who were at the rally. 

To me it appears that anything DT said at the rally would have had zero impact on the critical stages of what happened at the Capitol building.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/us/trump-capitol-riot-timeline.html


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> Timeline is of interest. Make of it what you will, but remember it is at least 45 minutes from the speech location to the Capitol building. Probably a lot longer than that, given the estimated million plus who were at the rally.
> 
> To me it appears that anything DT said at the rally would have had zero impact on the critical stages of what happened at the Capitol building.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/us/trump-capitol-riot-timeline.html


Would that not assume that absolutely no one at the rally had the means to communicate and/or broadcast in real time? Same at the Capitol?

Worst. Caper. Ever. 

Next insurrection, they should at least make sure to have at least two smartphones between them.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> I love that Jan 20 is tomorrow. Time’s up. And the conspiracy nut jobs are going on about the Insurrection Act of 1807 as though that’s somehow going to save them. Even when Trump becomes the former president there’s still a lot of brainwashed people out there.


Now they're furiously backpedaling on all the tough talk and its a constant stream of whatever c0ckamamie theory they've cooked up as to why Trump couldn't possibly be responsible. We've heard everything from its Antifa agitators (no word yet as who Antifa is...lol) to how could Trump possibly be responsible he was miles away.

I think the concept of the consequences of his words is just lost on them. They'll never get it, nor admit it. It s useless to even bother engaging any of it. Let them spout. Its possibly cathartic, and maybe even part of a grieving process. Torrents of nonsensical right wing crap is likely imminent. Its time to really just stop giving it any attention. Let them fade to black. Because most of it is just anger, Nyah Nyah Nyah... Nyah stuff. 

Who needs it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I’m surprised nobody here has brought up the Insurrection Act of 1807 Trump supposedly signed. It’s all the talk in right wing circles. Macfury, you’re falling down on the job. Less than 24 hours to go. If Trump’s pulling out the big guns, he’s rapidly running out of time.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> I’m surprised nobody here has brought up the Insurrection Act of 1807 Trump supposedly signed. It’s all the talk in right wing circles. Macfury, you’re falling down on the job. Less than 24 hours to go. If Trump’s pulling out the big guns, he’s rapidly running out of time.


I think trump is mostly focused on his 21 gun salute send off


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I think trump is mostly focused on his 21 gun salute send off



Bwahahahahahaha!


----------



## groovetube

Anyway, it’s back to the peaceful thread, it’ll get ugly at some point, especially when the appointment of a trans doctor as asst health secretary hits and all the lispin gets out of control. It’ll get slippery with all the maga tears. Howls of dominion machines being controlled by (gasp!) a dead socialist Venezuela leader, ghostly antifa dressing up in maga clothing and god knows what other stupidity will be shoveled. I’ll just sit back, and be glad I don’t care what these types spout. All they want now, is your attention. Deny it. No one cares anyway.  

I do hope to see a return to some sanity. I read that Biden recognized and mourned the 400k who lost their lives in this pandemic. Imagine that. Human decency.

There now I’ll return to my peace 

Edit: I removed the negative sh ! t. I’ll add a photo that gives me hope.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Biden and Harris will be a refreshing change in America. They may not be better in some ways (opposition to Keystone XL hurts Canada for example), but these two don’t act like narcissistic babies at least. 

Meanwhile, McConnell puts the blame for the insurrection squarely on Trump’s shoulders. 

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4213929001


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Countdown clock!

https://trumpevictionclock.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

S’more on Trump’s Inauguration Day Sendoff (so much winning)



> Womp, Womp: No One Wants to Be Caught Dead at Trump’s Inauguration Day Send-Off | Vanity Fair
> 
> Bess LevinJanuary 19, 2021 11:44 AM
> 
> Four years after he became president of the United States, it appears that Donald Trump will be ending his time in Washington the same way he started it: by lying about crowd sizes. Yes, after kicking off his first and only term in office by claiming that a historic number of people attended his 2017 inauguration, and that the fake-news media just wouldn‘t admit it, Trump will very likely be spending the next four-to-six-to-God-knows how many years insisting that millions of people turned out to his big farewell, which will very likely be a lie considering that seemingly no one wants to be caught dead at said goodbye ceremony, or anywhere near him.
> 
> CNN reports that the outgoing president is “eagerly anticipating his military-style send-off from Joint Base Andrews” on Wednesday morning, though it sounds as though he’s going to be extremely disappointed when he sees who does, or more to the point doesn’t, show up:
> 
> Invitations have gone out to Trump’s friends, allies, and former administration officials saying it will begin at 8 a.m. ET. Each invitee is allowed five guests; organizers hope to secure a large crowd because Trump has complained about the size of his gatherings in the past. In a sign the guest list may not have been carefully curated, Trump’s former communications director turned critic, Anthony Scaramucci, was invited to the departure. He told CNN he did not plan to attend, but saw his invitation as a sign the White House was eager to bulk up the guest list. One official familiar with the planning said organizers are anxious that a crowd will not materialize on Wednesday morning. But the official said the event would proceed anyway.
> 
> It’s unclear whether this whole plus-five situation is standard protocol for such events, but presumably it is not. According to Washington Post reporter Josh Dawsey, one invitee said he “wasn’t even going, much less inviting five others.” Meanwhile, President Incite-a-Mob is apparently down in the dumps after unsuccessfully attempting to overturn democracy, and nothing can draw him out of his funk.
> 
> The President has been in a foul mood for several days and has lost interest in the performative parts of the presidency he once relished, a source he’s spoken with in recent days told CNN…. He hasn’t left the White House or been seen in public for a week. On Monday evening he taped a valedictory final message from the Blue Room of the White House, ticking through several achievements that he believes should define his administration. The video is expected to be released on Tuesday, an official said, although a final timing had not been determined. Unlike most of his predecessors in the television era, a live prime-time farewell address attempting to burnish what has become a badly tarnished legacy is no longer in the cards.
> 
> While a number of potential events had been considered for Trump's final week in office celebrating his accomplishments, including on Middle East peace, regulatory reform and lowering taxes, none materialized. During his trip to the southern border to herald wall construction, Trump spoke for only 20 minutes. Aides once begged Trump to consider delivering a major speech ticking through his accomplishments, and there was even discussion about requesting a prime-time slot from television networks over the weekend, people familiar with the matter said. The talks appeared to go nowhere…
> 
> In addition to dispensing with a prime-time farewell speech—something even Richard Nixon did from the Oval Office— Trump has decided to be the first president in 150 years to boycott his successor’s inauguration. Though, to be fair, he did send a fascist mob to the Capitol to try to prevent Joe Biden from becoming president, so attending the inauguration would have been extra awkward. Trump is also reportedly piqued that “a slate of actual celebrities [has] lined up“ for Biden’s moment when most of them, save for the dream team of Kirstie Alley, Kid Rock, Jon Voight, and Scott Baio, wouldn’t give him the time of day for his. So this is probably for the best.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.van...01/donald-trump-inauguration-day-send-off/amp


----------



## groovetube

I think a great number of people are breathing a sigh of relief. Even ones who don’t really support democrats, are relieved. It’s clear America is in a serious situation, a lot of it could have been mitigated by a better response by the last administration. The press briefings and statements from Biden is a breath of fresh air after what we’ve endured up to this point. Regardless of whether you agree with his policies or not, it can’t be denied that this is a sign of a better and far more effective response to the pandemic. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of snarky comments and a probably a deluge of unread right wing media links no one will click or read because, really, no one cares. Because at this point, what really matters is if people would just stop being so effing selfish and do their part to help protect and save people’s lives.

I’ve had a couple friends share heartwrenching posts of having to say goodbye by iPhone to their parents this week. This has happened to a number of people I know and has happened to too many times now this year. And I for one am sick of the lowlifes who continually, without a leg to stand on much less a shred of human decency continue to push conspiracy theories that this all a made up hoax.

Stay safe everyone, because this sh!!t is serious. And I sincerely hope for everyone’s sake Biden and his team can be far more effective than what we just had.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Agreed. Dealing with the pandemic is basic. Without getting covid19 under control, the economy really can’t recover either. Let‘s hope that we will have made great progress by this summer so that life can get back to normal.


----------



## groovetube

That really is the rub. All of those who downplayed this as not much more than the flu, are likely going to deny doing so because when this situation goes through what is likely to be a very dark period and the vast devastation to people's lives can be seen much clearer than hiding out on your safe home having food and amazon delivered, it'll be obvious how crucial it was for the past administration to have taken this far more seriously and what an opportunity was missed for real leadership.

As I said, I really hope Biden and team can try to pick up the ball that was seriously fumbled. The expect a 100k deaths in the month feb alone. Let that sink in. Biden has inherited, one of the most serious disasters Ive seen in my lifetime.

And meanwhile back here in Ontari-ari-ari-ooooo we have this numbskull with this:



> “If I was in (Trudeau's) shoes ... I'd be on that phone call every single day. I'd be up that guy's yin-yang so far with a firecracker he wouldn't know what hit him,” he said of Pfizer's executives.


oooooh-kays there Dougie. You go put a firecracker up their asses cause you know that's how people get sh!!t done eh. Honestly. It isn't that he's a conservative. It's quite simply, like Trump, he's an absolute moron.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

No argument there. All one has to do is look at the strategy they used in New Zealand to see that there are methods that work against Covid. NZ is CoVid-free now and life has gone back to normal. Mind you, they are a small island country, but still, a successful strategy is a successful strategy. I don’t think they’ll be opening up their borders anytime soon.


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> Mind you, they are a small island country, but still, a successful strategy is a successful strategy. I don’t think they’ll be opening up their borders anytime soon.


Less than the population of GTA spread out across the country, and easy-to-close borders. It's commendable that they've managed their numbers so well, but, I don't think we can draw fair comparisons.

Madagascar is doing amazingly well for its population. 0.06% infection rate, vs. 0.04% for New Zealand. But with 5 times the population and higher population density.

I suspect the island part contributes a lot, but I wonder what impact climate and import control has on those numbers?


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Less than the population of GTA spread out across the country, and easy-to-close borders. It's commendable that they've managed their numbers so well, but, I don't think we can draw fair comparisons.
> 
> Madagascar is doing amazingly well for its population. 0.06% infection rate, vs. 0.04% for New Zealand. But with 5 times the population and higher population density.
> 
> I suspect the island part contributes a lot, but I wonder what impact climate and import control has on those numbers?


There's no question there are significant differences between those countries. Ive seen countless interactions across social media to see the debate on this, the comparisons and then the reasons why it isn't a valid comparison. The trouble is, both sides of the debate are right. So it goes nowhere. But what it does do in my opinion, is take one's eyes off what seems to be fairly common in countries who do better. The countries that seem to do well, don't seem to have leadership actively undermining the use of masks or other measures to flatten the numbers while we ramp up vaccine production. That, is for starters. Then there are a number of various differences, a population far more willing to do their part and wear masks and just simply take this seriously. Just think about where you see all those viral videos of some doohickey having an absolute meltdown in a grocery store or whatever because they're required to wear a mask. And think of where they tend to happen. 

There are in my opinion a whole pile of factors that is worth looking at as a whole. But what tends to happen is either side grabs a hold of a couple 'headlines' and defends it without going any further. I think that's unfortunate. Just my opinion.

I'm actually one of those people that think if people were a lot smarter and we all took this seriously rather than whimper like some of the ones I see around, we likely wouldn't need any of these draconian lockdowns. Certainly not what we're going through now, and the smaller businesses might have pulled through.


----------



## Macfury

Florida is doing really well with no involuntary mandates. Open for business!

The Biden plan: "There’s nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the pandemic in the next several months.”


----------



## Macfury

I think that crying in public is Biden's greatest asset.



groovetube said:


> I do hope to see a return to some sanity. I read that Biden recognized and mourned the 400k who lost their lives in this pandemic. Imagine that. Human decency.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I think that crying in public is Biden's greatest asset.



Cynical much?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So Macfury, you were earlier going on about how well you knew the US constitution and how Trump would ultimately win the election. What happened?


----------



## Macfury

I will honestly admit I don't know. He had at least two other constitutional roads open to him and did not use them. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> So Macfury, you were earlier going on about how well you knew the US constitution and how Trump would ultimately win the election. What happened?


----------



## eMacMan

So I find my self asking. How is it that; a stolen coat rack, a stolen dias, a broken window, and a selfie of feet on Nancy's desk, can be used to justify placing 25,000 troops in the nations capitol? How can anyone be dumb enough to believe that's valid cause? All this to supposedly to protect Joe Diablo from harm during his faux inauguration. 

Keep in mind that about 5 times as many as are currently stationed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Somehow I keep picturing a Borg Cube and the phrase; "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.", being beamed into peoples skull.


----------



## CubaMark

eMacMan, are you intentionally downplaying the risk to the incoming President and Vice-President of the USA? Pretty disingenuous.

A quick search of any news source will show you the *why*....

E.g., *Congress briefed on fresh security threats ahead of Biden inauguration*
_*Lawmakers warned of ‘very specific’ dangers as congressman says Republicans and Democrats have received death threats*_
(TheGuardian)


----------



## Macfury

They always get death threats and then publicize them to affect policy. You should be a little more cynical than that.



CubaMark said:


> eMacMan, are you intentionally downplaying the risk to the incoming President and Vice-President of the USA? Pretty disingenuous.
> 
> A quick search of any news source will show you the *why*....
> 
> E.g., *Congress briefed on fresh security threats ahead of Biden inauguration*
> _*Lawmakers warned of ‘very specific’ dangers as congressman says Republicans and Democrats have received death threats*_
> (TheGuardian)


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> They always get death threats and then publicize them to affect policy. You should be a little more cynical than that.


My natural cynicism is outweighed by the very real occupation of the Capitol that occurred a couple of weeks ago. Context matters. Security officials were not referring to nebulous threats, but actual direct threats of violence.

Surely you're not going to take such a blatantly unsupportable stance!


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> ...
> Surely you're not going to take such a blatantly unsupportable stance!


Naaaaawwwwwww.......


Sorry but I just busted a gut there.


----------



## Macfury

"Remember the Maine."



CubaMark said:


> My natural cynicism is outweighed by the very real occupation of the Capitol that occurred a couple of weeks ago. Context matters. Security officials were not referring to nebulous threats, but actual direct threats of violence.
> 
> Surely you're not going to take such a blatantly unsupportable stance!


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> So I find my self asking. How is it that; a stolen coat rack, a stolen dias, a broken window, and a selfie of feet on Nancy's desk, can be used to justify placing 25,000 troops in the nations capitol? How can anyone be dumb enough to believe that's valid cause? All this to supposedly to protect Joe Diablo from harm during his faux inauguration.


As Macfury pointed out, it was quite odd that on site security were observed actually helping the mob out. Clearly they can't be trusted, can they? Or should the new administration just cross their fingers? Pray? 

You forgot Nancy's laptop, that was stolen. Allegedly, the thief tried to sell it to the Russians. No security threat there. 
People were killed. At the capitol. No security threat there.
There were some chanting for death of Pence. Pelosi. Inside the capitol. No security threat there.
There were people armed. Prepared to take hostages. Inside the capitol. No security threat there.


Naw, it was all about a coat rack.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> "Remember the Maine."


Heh - hard to parse that until one knows which of the theories on her sinking you choose to believe.... :lmao:


----------



## CubaMark

polywog said:


> As Macfury pointed out, it was quite odd that on site security were observed actually helping the mob out.


Let's not forget the off-duty cops who participated in this act of sedition, eh?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Let's not forget the off-duty cops who participated in this act of sedition, eh?



Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people

 https://youtu.be/IfZbFh7qlCQ


----------



## Macfury

I thought you were a fan of sedition... as long as you backed the team?



CubaMark said:


> Let's not forget the off-duty cops who participated in this act of sedition, eh?


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> As Macfury pointed out, it was quite odd that on site security were observed actually helping the mob out. Clearly they can't be trusted, can they? Or should the new administration just cross their fingers? Pray?
> 
> You forgot Nancy's laptop, that was stolen. Allegedly, the thief tried to sell it to the Russians. No security threat there.
> People were killed. At the capitol. No security threat there.
> There were some chanting for death of Pence. Pelosi. Inside the capitol. No security threat there.
> There were people armed. Prepared to take hostages. Inside the capitol. No security threat there.
> 
> Naw, it was all about a coat rack.


Still does not add up to even a 500 troop security threat, let alone 25,000. Let us also recall that one of the dead was a heart attack, and another was executed by a cop. So even that factor was exaggerated by the lamestream. And who were they going to take hostage? The armed cops who opened the doors for them? Fellow protestors? There was no one else there.

As to Pelosi's laptop if there was anything relating to national security on that laptop, the woman should be behind bars. Also seems to me that the Russian story is highly suspicious, surely the Republirats would have paid more than the Rooskies. There might have been evidence of election fraud on that computer as NP would hardly trust that to any server after the Hiliary debacle.

BTW the only firearm discharged was the one that executed the woman and it was in the hands of a cop. If these had been BLM protestors, the lamestream would have been pointing out how very little damage there was and insisting the cop be drawn and quartered.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> Still does not add up to even a 500 troop security threat, let alone 25,000. Let us also recall that one of the dead was a heart attack, and another was executed by a cop. So even that factor was exaggerated by the lamestream. And who were they going to take hostage? The armed cops who opened the doors for them? Fellow protestors? There was no one else there.


5 Dead, including cops. 56 officers were injured after being beaten or tazed repeatedly. 

Not two.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> 5 Dead, including cops. 56 officers were injured after being beaten or tazed repeatedly.
> 
> Not two.


Nonetheless, if the millions of people attending this event had intended a coordinated act of _sedition_ — an effort to overthrow the government — the Capitol would have been razed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nonetheless, if the millions of people attending this event had intended a coordinated act of _sedition_ — an effort to overthrow the government — the Capitol would have been razed.



Where on earth do you get millions from? Cite please.


----------



## Macfury

A joke. There wouldn't have been enough people to take over the Capitol if they tried. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Where on earth do you get millions from? Cite please.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A joke. There wouldn't have been enough people to take over the Capitol if they tried.



Hard to tell when you’re actually being serious. As far as riot day, I heard that there were only 500 officers on duty that day when there are normally about 2500. The rest were told to stay home.


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> 5 Dead, including cops. 56 officers were injured after being beaten or tazed repeatedly.
> 
> Not two.


Do try to read more carefully, I pointed out that two of those 5 dead could not be blamed on the demonstrators, and therefore the total of 5 was an exaggeration. 

There were indeed a million plus people in the Capitol that day. Most them were 45 minutes away still listening to Trump rhetoric at the time of the so-called insurrection. Surely had there been any serious intent of insurrection, then the total damage would been a lot greater than accompanies a typical antifa demonstration. Instead it was at least an order of magnitude less.

As to tazed cops, if continuously tazing people is as harmless as the cops always claim; What's the big deal? 

Again no one has provided anything close to a solid justification for having 25,000 troops in the nations Capitol for the coronation of the Chief Demon.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Again no one has provided anything close to a solid justification for having 25,000 troops in the nations Capitol for the coronation of the Chief Goblin.


I think a thorough understanding that he is not considered to have won the election.


----------



## CubaMark

*It Turns Out Lying About Election Fraud Can Get Really Expensive*










Dominion Voting Systems is suing Rudy Giuliani for more than $1.3 billion, accusing him of defamation for implicating the company in his vast election fraud conspiracy theory.

Dominion leveled these allegations in a 107-page complaint, which referred to Giuliani’s false claims as the “Big Lie” that “deceived millions of people into believing that Dominion had stolen their votes and fixed the election.” The document, filed in federal court on Sunday, also stated that Giuliani’s lies resulted in the company’s founder and employees receiving death threats. What follows is a detailed chronology of every time Giuliani peddled these lies in public, in press conferences, television interviews and on podcasts.

* * *​
Giuliani, Trump’s personal lawyer, enthusiastically deployed this false claim as part of his PR strategy, as did other members of the legal team contesting the 2020 election results. “What we are really dealing with here, and uncovering more by the day, is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China in the interference with our elections here in the United States,” Sidney Powell, a former member of Trump’s counsel, said at a November press event.

Dominion has filed a separate lawsuit against Powell, seeking roughly the same amount of money in compensation.

(Jezebel)​


----------



## Macfury

How does "Jezebel" know what is true or false here? Let's see who wins in a court of law.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Do try to read more carefully, I pointed out that two of those 5 dead could not be blamed on the demonstrators, and therefore the total of 5 was an exaggeration.
> 
> There were indeed a million plus people in the Capitol that day. Most them were 45 minutes away still listening to Trump rhetoric at the time of the so-called insurrection. Surely had there been any serious intent of insurrection, then the total damage would been a lot greater than accompanies a typical antifa demonstration. Instead it was at least an order of magnitude less.
> 
> As to tazed cops, if continuously tazing people is as harmless as the cops always claim; What's the big deal?
> 
> Again no one has provided anything close to a solid justification for having 25,000 troops in the nations Capitol for the coronation of the Chief Demon.



Please cite your source for a million plus people at the Capitol that day.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie is a big Trump fan and wants to see the top numbers!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Please cite your source for a million plus people at the Capitol that day.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie is a big Trump fan and wants to see the top numbers!



The inflated numbers. Why can’t you kids produce your sources? If there were a million, surely that must be published somewhere besides Newsmax. Or QAnon.


----------



## Macfury

I know Newsmax. What the hell is QAnon?



Freddie_Biff said:


> The inflated numbers. Why can’t you kids produce your sources? If there were a million, surely that must be published somewhere besides Newsmax. Or QAnon.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I know Newsmax. What the hell is QAnon?



The main place where Trump and his followers get their information from. A conspiracy theorist’s haven.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> There were indeed a million plus people in the Capitol that day. Most them were 45 minutes away still listening to Trump rhetoric at the time of the so-called insurrection. Surely had there been any serious intent of insurrection, then the total damage would been a lot greater than accompanies a typical antifa demonstration. Instead it was at least an order of magnitude less.


They know this from ticket sales? Was it the same folks that estimated Trumps inauguration crowd size that eyeballed this too?



eMacMan said:


> As to tazed cops, if continuously tazing people is as harmless as the cops always claim; What's the big deal?


56 of the people tasked with protecting the Capitol were injured, and the best retort you could come up with is this? Par for the course with you, I suppose.



eMacMan said:


> Again no one has provided anything close to a solid justification for having 25,000 troops in the nations Capitol for the coronation of the Chief Demon.


I think you mean No one has provided justification _that you like_.

I don't recall your objections to Trump having the White House locked off and fenced in? I guess someone provided solid justification for that to you.

One single armed person made it to Parliament Hill. Just one. What was the outcome? Probably something that you equally disapprove of.


----------



## CubaMark




----------



## Macfury

The difference is, that with Benghazi they never arrested the perp.


----------



## eMacMan

Or as viewed through the eyes of the Democrypts.
"4 dead in Benghazi, nothing to see there, everyone just move along we'll cover up anything that might make us look bad."

3 dead in the nations Capitol (heart attacks, and sanctioned executions cannot be considered a legitimate part of the tally). "Let's make the nations capitol look like Moscow under Stalin, or Berlin under Hitler."


----------



## Macfury

Good to see Biden nominating Tom "Friend of Monsanto" Vilsack as Secretary of Agriculture. The world needs more chemicals and GMOs!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Good to see Biden nominating Tom "Friend of Monsanto" Vilsack as Secretary of Agriculture. The world needs more chemicals and GMOs!


Terrible choice. At least we know what kind of Sec. he's likely to be... the kind who pushes an agenda that benefits corporations.


----------



## KC4

Does anyone remember when members of the US Congress were caught selling off millions in stock holdings immediately after they were made privy to the initial coronavirus briefings about to break? And the regulatory/legal response to this inside trading was tepid at best? (I think Richard Burr "volunteered" to step down) 

Now after a bunch of retail investors with a Robin Hood account and a Reddit ID took the stuffing out of a few big hedge funds there is serious talk about how the entire market needs to be re-regulated and restructured. 

Hmmmm.


----------



## Macfury

KC4 said:


> Does anyone remember when members of the US Congress were caught selling off millions in stock holdings immediately after they were made privy to the initial coronavirus briefings about to break? And the regulatory/legal response to this inside trading was tepid at best? (I think Richard Burr "volunteered" to step down)
> 
> Now after a bunch of retail investors with a Robin Hood account and a Reddit ID took the stuffing out of a few big hedge funds there is serious talk about how the entire market needs to be re-regulated and restructured.
> 
> Hmmmm.


Pelosi and her husband just took on massive investments in EV companies just before Biden announced an EV policy for federal departments. It's part of the grift.


----------



## groovetube

KC4 said:


> Does anyone remember when members of the US Congress were caught selling off millions in stock holdings immediately after they were made privy to the initial coronavirus briefings about to break? And the regulatory/legal response to this inside trading was tepid at best? (I think Richard Burr "volunteered" to step down)
> 
> Now after a bunch of retail investors with a Robin Hood account and a Reddit ID took the stuffing out of a few big hedge funds there is serious talk about how the entire market needs to be re-regulated and restructured.
> 
> Hmmmm.


Im amazed at how some of them seem to have gotten away with that! But it seems like all we've heard in a while now is how important the stock market is... despite how few actually are making huge money in it. 

This reddit thing gives me a chuckle to see the complaining from some quarters. No fair! Oh really? I agree on the re-regulation. Deregulating it is very much the wrong way to go.


----------



## eMacMan

KC4 said:


> Does anyone remember when members of the US Congress were caught selling off millions in stock holdings immediately after they were made privy to the initial coronavirus briefings about to break? And the regulatory/legal response to this inside trading was tepid at best? (I think Richard Burr "volunteered" to step down)
> 
> Now after a bunch of retail investors with a Robin Hood account and a Reddit ID took the stuffing out of a few big hedge funds there is serious talk about how the entire market needs to be re-regulated and restructured.
> 
> Hmmmm.


I know there are some who do not want to believe that corruption is systemic and Congress rotten to the core, but the evidence this is so, is overwhelming. It matters not whether the polieitican is Republiblood or Democrypt.

DTs downfall was appointing swamp monsters to the task of draining the swamp. Biden is making sure those monsters will have steady access to the taxpayer teats for at least 4 more years.


----------



## KC4

Now certain trading platforms (RobinHood among them) have curtailed trading and even moved to close out client trading positions without the client's permission. 

Nothing like throwing water on a grease fire.


----------



## CubaMark

*Bodycam Caught Mob Trampling Woman at Capitol*

Video shown in a Michigan courtroom this week captured rioters, in their rush to attack police, trampling a woman as she lay dying Jan. 6 on the Capitol steps. The mob ignored a friend of Rosanne Boyland's who was screaming for someone to help her. Fighting took place over Boyland's body, the New York Times reports. 

The video was played during a hearing for Michael Joseph Foy, who's accused of attacking police officers with a hockey stick. It seemed to be taken by a bodycam worn by a DC officer who was beaten and dragged by rioters. Boyland, 34, was pronounced dead about 90 minutes later at a DC hospital, after paramedics attended to her in the Rotunda. The official cause of death has not been released. Boyland and her friend had driven from Georgia to hear President Trump speak at the rally that preceded the riot, per CBS 46. Clips of the video are posted here.

A crush of rioters armed with hockey sticks, crutches, and pepper spray can be seen in the video pushing toward a Capitol doorway as someone shouts, "Save her!" Boyland's friend, Justin Winchell, then says: "She's gonna die! She’s dead!" When Winchell shouts, "I need somebody," a rioter sprays over his head at police. The crowd cheers as an officer is attacked and falls to the ground. Prosecutors say Foy hit officers at least 10 times in 16 seconds with his hockey stick. 

(Newser)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> *Bodycam Caught Mob Trampling Woman at Capitol*
> 
> Video shown in a Michigan courtroom this week captured rioters, in their rush to attack police, trampling a woman as she lay dying Jan. 6 on the Capitol steps. The mob ignored a friend of Rosanne Boyland's who was screaming for someone to help her. Fighting took place over Boyland's body, the New York Times reports.
> 
> The video was played during a hearing for Michael Joseph Foy, who's accused of attacking police officers with a hockey stick. It seemed to be taken by a bodycam worn by a DC officer who was beaten and dragged by rioters. Boyland, 34, was pronounced dead about 90 minutes later at a DC hospital, after paramedics attended to her in the Rotunda. The official cause of death has not been released. Boyland and her friend had driven from Georgia to hear President Trump speak at the rally that preceded the riot, per CBS 46. Clips of the video are posted here.
> 
> A crush of rioters armed with hockey sticks, crutches, and pepper spray can be seen in the video pushing toward a Capitol doorway as someone shouts, "Save her!" Boyland's friend, Justin Winchell, then says: "She's gonna die! She’s dead!" When Winchell shouts, "I need somebody," a rioter sprays over his head at police. The crowd cheers as an officer is attacked and falls to the ground. Prosecutors say Foy hit officers at least 10 times in 16 seconds with his hockey stick.
> 
> (Newser)​



I don’t understand how anyone with a conscience can rationalize or downplay the severity of these attacks. This is what happens when conspiracy theorists are unbridled.


----------



## polywog

CubaMark said:


> Boyland and her friend had driven from Georgia to hear President Trump speak at the rally that preceded the riot, per CBS 46.


This must be fake news. eMacMan said the Trump Rally had no effect on the riots at the capitol whatsoever.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> This must be fake news. eMacMan said the Trump Rally had no effect on the riots at the capitol whatsoever.


----------



## groovetube

Naw. Because they've been trained to scream Antifa! Because facing what this really was, is far too real for them. Benghazi! Q! They just spray total nonsense over social media because to them, that's real. 

Ask them for this supposed magical evidence they so fervently believe in, and they melt down into some fantasy land of 'you dun know how it werks" yer gonna be surprised, the liberal judges (trump appointed many of them) refused to hear the evidence... despite absolutely none of it being true. But hey. If you need attention just repeat it. And if you get called on it, just revert to the 'I love to upset the liberals' kinda numbskullery.

It's long past the right/left democrat/republican fights of the past. It isn't about simple biases, white lies and spin anymore. It's now outright fraud. Millions are being bamboozled in one of the biggest scams in American history, and we see a few of these poor saps spouting here as well. I heard this morning that Trump's legal team quit, because they wanted to argue the constitutionality of convicting a former impeached president and Trump refused, saying he wanted them to argue voter fraud! And while that'll cause many on the left to guffaw and wonder in amazement how it is, that Trump could be so stupid, given its already clear how futile it is to argue something without the evidence that they have been asked for so many times by judges already, it isn't so. He very much knows what he's doing, it's just that that legal team, wasn't willing to go along with it. Trump has already figured out how to fleece his idiots for millions under the guise of 'stop the steal', and a large amount of it will simply go into a superpak er, slush fund because man, those Deutsch bank/IRS etc bills won't pay themselves dammit. We already know how fast and easy these Trumps like to move money around different setups to pauy for something else don't we. And his number one brand, his name, is plummeting in business. So he simply wants to stay in the news cycle, knowing being in court for voter fraud, not nessecarily impeachment, is his ticket to millions and throwing a nice stab into the new administrations validity.

Its as obvious as it could possibly be. They're not even hiding it anymore. Praise the lord, and pass the damn loot, even if it's your kids college fund!

and you'll often simply get the 'well they're ALL corrupt so...' never quite realizing the irony of what they're saying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Jeez, Groove, you must be reading too much fake news on the MSM. You have to go to where the REAL news is, like the Epoch Times. Just wait until Mar 4 when Trump is declared the 19th president of the republic.


----------



## groovetube

"Donald Trump's new political committee took in more $30 million in the final weeks of 2020 as he made relentless and baseless claims of voter fraud, new filings show."

praise the lord and pass that loot. C'mon you can dig a little deeper!

The resulting history book on this after we're all gone, will not be kind.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> "Donald Trump's new political committee took in more $30 million in the final weeks of 2020 as he made relentless and baseless claims of voter fraud, new filings show."
> 
> praise the lord and pass that loot. C'mon you can dig a little deeper!
> 
> The resulting history book on this after we're all gone, will not be kind.



Grifter to the core.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

My it sure has been quiet around here ever since Trump got his ass kicked.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> My it sure has been quiet around here ever since Trump got his ass kicked.


It sure has. But that really speaks volumes I think. Did any of you "liberal lovers" or whatever is being tossed around these days stop posting or saying anything after Trump was elected?

Ive seen people use the boiling frog analogy a number of times and boy, that sure applies here. See, to them it's about 'winning'. That's the mindset Trump has instilled in these people. Trust me, Trump is by far, no dummy. He has played these people far better than a fiddle. I can't even come up with a better analogy, sorry. Sure, you can go on endlessly about the scams and corrupt democrats we've seen in US government over the years, and you'd be right. But somehow, all these supporters have become accustomed to the idea that all the greed, corruption, and if we're to believe all these Q nut jobs that are now not only infiltrating the Republican Party, but doing so with the support of trump supporters because 'freedumb!"... are only the domain of the democrats. Socialists, communists even! Its hard to imagine, that anyone would think that any of the US government resembles anything remotely close to Communism!! Oh but the ones from Cuba in Florida must know! But we all know, at least anyone who knows what communism actually is, they whipped these people into a frenzy that the democrats were gonna be like Castro, and they bought it. And if you confront this they'll melt down and it won't end well. They just simply don't want to hear it. All they want, is for someone, a saviour perhaps standing there with the word of god in his hand telling you, that you're winning.

And this, is a shock to the system. Oh they'll be back, and the avalanche of far right wing blogs and corporations set up for fundraising in the name of free speech and 'stop the steal' blah blah blah praise the lord and pass the loot, it's all still there. They're just rearming.



CubaMark said:


> Terrible choice. At least we know what kind of Sec. he's likely to be... the kind who pushes an agenda that benefits corporations.


As I was saying, about all this insane hyper partisanship. You know CM, Ive seen you accused multiple times now of only saying critical things about republicans and never 'your own', or whatever is todays name for that. But many times Ive seen you do the opposite. Pretty sure anyone reading this thread would notice it too.  That's why the troll types, are a complete waste of time engaging for the most part.


----------



## eMacMan

And this brings the actual DC death toll down to two.








Report: Blunt Force Trauma Did Not Kill Sicknick at Capitol Riot


We are now being told that Officer Brian Sicknick was not killed with a fire extinguisher during last month's Capitol Hill riot.




www.breitbart.com






> We are now being told that Officer Brian Sicknick was not killed with a fire extinguisher during last month’s Capitol Hill riot. Which means…
> 
> Once again, we are being taught the lesson that everything the establishment media report eventually ends up being exposed as a big fat lie.
> 
> Remember that horrible and harrowing story about U.S. Capitol police officer Brian Sicknick being beaten to death with a fire extinguisher during the Capitol Hill riot last month…? Well, guess what…?
> 
> …it didn’t happen.
> 
> In fact, according to far-left CNNLOL, the medical examiner found no evidence of any blunt force trauma of any kind during Sicknick’s autopsy.
> .....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Are Trump’s followers a cult? See what Reza Aslan has to say. The video is 8 1/2 minutes. 

 https://youtu.be/KS7pnPlQLcY


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Pelosi and her husband just took on massive investments in EV companies just before Biden announced an EV policy for federal departments. It's part of the grift.


Yep it's the grift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Macfury

Reza Aslan is a cult-level leftist.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Are Trump’s followers a cult? See what Reza Aslan has to say. The video is 8 1/2 minutes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Reza Aslan is a cult-level leftist.


Yeah, I don’t think so. He’s pretty level-headed actually. Did you watch the video, or are you offering your opinion based on the title?


----------



## groovetube

I spent a great deal of time traveling through the American mid west primarily, and a fair bit of the south. I think people often think that it's just mainly the south where you see the religious fanatics, but noooo. I can tell you there are just as many religious fanatics everywhere, north included, even in the most seemingly progressive urban centres. It's all there. Trump's not stupid. Ive said this many times. He knew where the gold mine was. And oh, he's mining it for everything he and his rich pals can get. Double down indeed. You'll hear the howels that oh the other side does it and the circus begins.

It just never once dawns on them that if they were really so into Jesus and his teachings, they would never support the likes of Trump. Because it never was about the teaching of Jesus. That's only for us idiots to swallow hook line... for them, it's power, and money. It's right there right in front of us. They're not even hiding it anymore. That's why any conservative I know that continues to repeat all the voting fraud etc crap have no credibility any longer. It's now far beyond policy differences of liberal/conservative conversations.

What worries me, is the of number of really p!ssed off trump supporters armed to the teeth. Because they often make the mistake that they're the ones with the guns and therefore power. It seems almost all of my democrat friends down south, are all equally as well armed. And that's a powder keg.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I don’t think so. He’s pretty level-headed actually. Did you watch the video, or are you offering your opinion based on the title?


Ha ha ha ha. He’s pretty much phoning it in at this point. It’s the same group that will snipe about the RHINOs. It’s almost a parody at this point.

Why would any devoted trump supporter ever consider this? It’s pretty damning.


----------



## Macfury

Got news for you bud--the powder keg on the left has been exploding in American cities all last year.



groovetube said:


> What worries me, is the of number of really p!ssed off trump supporters armed to the teeth. Because they often make the mistake that they're the ones with the guns and therefore power. It seems almost all of my democrat friends down south, are all equally as well armed. And that's a powder keg.


----------



## Macfury

The guy is a leftist ass. You see him as level-headed from where you're observing.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I don’t think so. He’s pretty level-headed actually. Did you watch the video, or are you offering your opinion based on the title?


----------



## groovetube

Sorry man but you're really going to have to do a whole lot better than that to be taken seriously. This is pretty lame stuff.

Whaaaa he's a leftist! I can find this nonsense stuff on Facebook.


----------



## Macfury

groove, you see nothing wrong with being an unapologetic leftist. That's fine. Just don't expect the rest of the world to see this kook as level-headed.



groovetube said:


> Sorry man but you're really going to have to do a whole lot better than that to be taken seriously. This is pretty lame stuff.
> 
> Whaaaa he's a leftist! I can find this nonsense stuff on Facebook.


----------



## CubaMark

November 9, 2020 — President* Trump fires Defense Secretary Esper and names Christopher Miller his Acting Defense Secretary. 

January 4, 2021 — Acting Defense Secretary Miller orders the DC National Guard not to interfere with rioters.

And now, this:


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> groove, you see nothing wrong with being an unapologetic leftist. That's fine. Just don't expect the rest of the world to see this kook as level-headed.


So now you're the 'rest of the world'. It's come to this. Do you even realize how lame this has become? Why bother? 7 years later and you're not even trying at this anymore.


----------



## groovetube

House Impeachment Managers' Video Compilation of January 6 Attack on the U.S. Capitol


House impeachment managers present a video compilation of the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.




www.c-span.org





Pretty sobering to watch.

And the hoards of numbskulls actually believe that this crowd were actually Antifa dressed up as Trump supporters. You cant even try to make up this stupidity.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> groove, you see nothing wrong with being an unapologetic leftist. That's fine. Just don't expect the rest of the world to see this kook as level-headed.


You say “leftist” like it’s a bad thing. Please explain what you believe Reza Aslan presented that is not correct in this video. You have offered zero support for your position.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> You say “leftist” like it’s a bad thing. Please explain what you believe Reza Aslan presented that is not correct in this video. You have offered zero support for your position.


see this is how it always is. He just grinds it down to the lowest level with this stuff. Im guilty of even responding, which makes the mess bigger really. So I should can it as well. It's just low level nonsense that used to be the norm back in ye olde forum days, and eventually just cleared the place out. Who has time for this crap? Maybe at the moment while many of us are in lockdown looking for distractions. But you do just tire of the same boring playbook.

Anyway. Lost in this stupidity about whether the speaker is a 'leftist' or not, is what he said. I suppose if I were a Trump supporter, I probably wouldn't want to hear it either. Leftist or not.


----------



## Macfury

Just keep going folks, and pretend your leftism is mainstream.


----------



## Macfury

Yep!



Freddie_Biff said:


> You say “leftist” like it’s a bad thing.


----------



## Macfury

Some of them definitely were. Which ones did you miss?



groovetube said:


> House Impeachment Managers' Video Compilation of January 6 Attack on the U.S. Capitol
> 
> 
> House impeachment managers present a video compilation of the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.c-span.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sobering to watch.
> 
> And the hoards of numbskulls actually believe that this crowd were actually Antifa dressed up as Trump supporters. You cant even try to make up this stupidity.


----------



## Macfury

How many members of the National Guard were called in on January 6?



CubaMark said:


> November 9, 2020 — President* Trump fires Defense Secretary Esper and names Christopher Miller his Acting Defense Secretary.
> 
> January 4, 2021 — Acting Defense Secretary Miller orders the DC National Guard not to interfere with rioters.
> 
> And now, this:


----------



## groovetube

Pathetic. Not much has changed.


----------



## Macfury

And you, groovetube--as persuasive as ever.



groovetube said:


> Pathetic. Not much has changed.


----------



## Macfury

So how many Antifa members were embedded in the Washington incursion? Zero?


----------



## groovetube

you STILL, think people are changing any minds here? Really? 

LOL. That's truly sad man.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And you, groovetube--as persuasive as ever.


Which parts of Reza Asian’s message do you find fault with? Please be specific.


----------



## Macfury

Greater minds have actually changed opinions during your absence.



groovetube said:


> you STILL, think people are changing any minds here? Really?
> 
> LOL. That's truly sad man.


----------



## Macfury

I take issue with insane comments, courtesy of this juvenile jackass, calling for mass violence:



> “The President is a white nationalist terror leader. His supporters – ALL OF THEM – are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood. And his evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society.”


----------



## groovetube

Well as long as you believe you’re doing a noble thing here and changing minds for the good of the world with comments like those, all the power to you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Well as long as you believe you’re doing a noble thing here and changing minds for the good of the world with comments like those, all the power to you.


Too bad hardly anyone even comes by here anymore. Not many minds to change.


----------



## groovetube

Some things never change. Asking questions isn't ever, ever going to get an answer. I applaud you for trying though. The snipes on Antifa blah blah, isn't for discussing, its to goad. He doesn't even know what Antifa really is, none of them do. And he isn't interested in responding about what Reza Asian said. Other than 'he's a leftist!'. Thats all you're going to get. And probably me responding, doesn't help either. As the last page shows. Just ignore it people say. Well, a lot of people I know personally here, have chosen to ignore it by not coming by anymore. I think I recall someone declaring that if they just got rid of groovetube all would be well. It’s been 7 years... Is it well yet? 

Well here's a cartoon that pretty much sums up what we're seeing right now with the cowardly spineless republicans.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Some things never change. Asking questions isn't ever, ever going to get an answer. I applaud you for trying though. The snipes on Antifa blah blah, isn't for discussing, its to goad. He doesn't even know what Antifa really is, none of them do. And he isn't interested in responding about what Reza Asian said. Other than 'he's a leftist!'. Thats all you're going to get. And probably me responding, doesn't help either. As the last page shows. Just ignore it people say. Well, a lot of people I know personally here, have chosen to ignore it by not coming by anymore. I think I recall someone declaring that if they just got rid of groovetube all would be well. Is it well yet?
> 
> Well here's a cartoon that pretty much sums up what we're seeing the cowardly spineless republicans.
> 
> View attachment 93661


That’s about it. Makes Repubs like Mitt Romney really look like leadership material among a bunch of cowards.


----------



## groovetube

Ah but he's an establishment rhino now. Kiss of death.


----------



## Macfury

That fawning over Romney is hilarious! So brave! So principled! The Democrat media was slicing him and dicing him when he ran for president.


----------



## Macfury

But the great groovetube knows all about ANTIFA. Make it simple for us, would you? We can pin your post and refer to it later.



groovetube said:


> The snipes on Antifa blah blah, isn't for discussing, its to goad. He doesn't even know what Antifa really is, none of them do.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Too bad hardly anyone even comes by here anymore.


They all went to the EhMac "lifeboats" of MacDiscussions and MacMagic... and sunk them with their shuffleboard chatter.


----------



## groovetube

Oh man this is sooo boring. No wonder there’s few left here.


----------



## Macfury

We'll miss you when you're gone!



groovetube said:


> Oh man this is sooo boring. No wonder there’s few left here.


----------



## Macfury

It's still pretty funny to watch people jackassing and heehawing over a show trial that is not even presided over by a Supreme Court justice and has no basis in law. Are the Dems and RINOs so afraid of Trump that they're grabbing at even these few pitiful straws to try to prevent him from running for president in 2024 with this non-trial? Meanwhile, Trump is enjoying every minute of it as he contnues to dominate the news cycle and deliver his message—for free.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> It's still pretty funny to watch people jackassing and heehawing over a show trial that is not even presided over by a Supreme Court justice and has no basis in law. Are the Dems and RINOs so afraid of Trump that they're grabbing at even these few pitiful straws to try to prevent him from running for president in 2024 with this non-trial? Meanwhile, Trump is enjoying every minute of it as he contnues to dominate the news cycle and deliver his message—for free.


I thought they had decided to skip the kangaroo trial part altogether. May be that was too blatantly corrupt for even a Democrypt to manage.


----------



## wonderings

I am sure I am not alone in wanting this to just all be over. I am not a Biden supporter, would not have voted for him but would not have voted for Trump. I would have voted for Trump the first election, I am tired of politics as usual, tired of the corruption, tired of the hypocrisy. Trump while loud and crass seemed like he might have been one to really give the whole system a jolt. He obviously did but not in the way I hoped he would. I think this is a problem in the US with basically a 2 party system, so many people could not vote Democratic based on the parties platform, policies and values, then on the other hand you have Trump and the Republicans who has a party stand closer to policies and values I would support but I could never in good conscious support Trump. If I was a US citizen this probably would have been the first election I had ever abstained from voting.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I am sure I am not alone in wanting this to just all be over. I am not a Biden supporter, would not have voted for him but would not have voted for Trump. I would have voted for Trump the first election, I am tired of politics as usual, tired of the corruption, tired of the hypocrisy. Trump while loud and crass seemed like he might have been one to really give the whole system a jolt. He obviously did but not in the way I hoped he would. I think this is a problem in the US with basically a 2 party system, so many people could not vote Democratic based on the parties platform, policies and values, then on the other hand you have Trump and the Republicans who has a party stand closer to policies and values I would support but I could never in good conscious support Trump. If I was a US citizen this probably would have been the first election I had ever abstained from voting.


I think a lot of people on both sides tend to fall in that camp. Unfortunately, especially with disasterous leaders like trump had turned out to be, people are pushed into supporting the lesser of two evils instead of voting for something good. Which seems to be getting worse as the parties become more and more polarized.


----------



## Macfury

The US parties are not polarizing. They're becoming a uni-party with minor quibbles. Most representatives and senators don't care who is president as long as they get premium postings and insider stock tips.



groovetube said:


> ...which seems to be getting worse as the parties become more and more polarized.


----------



## groovetube

Oh well gosh and here I thought one side were communists and were ‘eco terrorists’? It’s hard to keep track. I think you need to follow US politics a little more closely. I get that many politicians in congress and senate are often looking out for their own self interest, when have they not? but that isn’t relevant to what I was talking about.


----------



## Macfury

This is why you came back here. You need guidance.



groovetube said:


> Oh well gosh and here I thought one side were communists and were ‘eco terrorists’? It’s hard to keep track.


----------



## groovetube

I think you are a little too eager to goad and you get caught in the gears a little.

Its really ok to disagree. It won't hurt. Much anyway!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This is why you came back here. You need guidance.


Good lord. You’re in no position to preach about much of anything.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I take issue with insane comments, courtesy of this juvenile jackass, calling for mass violence:


On this we agree. In particular "His supporters – ALL OF THEM – are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood." is a huge problem. False dichotomies only serve to create artificial conflict, and both "sides" are equally guilty of it.


----------



## groovetube

Is this pure hyperbole? Of course it is. Low hanging fruit. But this is just mere whimpering in the face of what has gone down with Trump's huge scam of voter fraud and the resulting attempt at US executive branch takeover and deaths and injuries. I don't see much other than pathetic excuses that it was someone else or some other crap. Embarrassing.

History will not be kind to those gullible enough to fall in line with this whole voter fraud scam deal. Already the investigations, arrests, and massive liable suits for the idiot right wing "news" organizations who thought mouthing off about fraudulent claims about the companies providing vote services and machines was going to be ok because their man Trump would shield them. 

Comeuppance is coming and will be sweet. We've listened to the taunts of 'ders gonna be lotsa lib-tears come November' endlessly for some time now. So I have little sympathy for this kind of whimpering.


----------



## eMacMan

Surprised non of the Democrypt types posted this earlier.


https://ca.yahoo.com/news/four-threats-against-donald-trump-205842843.html





> The Senate's most powerful figure, Democrat Chuck Schumer, called it a vote that will live in infamy and expressed his fear of this acquittal setting a precedent with bleak implications for the republic.
> 
> "If encouraging political violence becomes the norm, it will be open season — open season — on our democracy," Schumer, the Senate's majority leader, said.


Rather hypocritical given the ongoing Democryptic support and encouragement of the Burn Loot and Murder bunch and their pro-fascist Antifa cousins.


----------



## groovetube

I guess the best response to hyperbole, is even dumber hyperbole!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> On this we agree. In particular "His supporters – ALL OF THEM – are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood." is a huge problem. False dichotomies only serve to create artificial conflict, and both "sides" are equally guilty of it.


At least the KKK were smart enough to wear hoods to hide their identities.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Surprised non of the Democrypt types posted this earlier.
> 
> 
> https://ca.yahoo.com/news/four-threats-against-donald-trump-205842843.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather hypocritical given the ongoing Democryptic support and encouragement of the Burn Loot and Murder bunch and their pro-fascist Antifa cousins.


How are members of Antifa pro-fascist?


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> At least the KKK were smart enough to wear hoods to hide their identities.


Smack!

Or live stream themselves in the midst of a violent attack on the Capitol. Law enforcement has to be just laughing, they have allthe video footage they need 

just curious, with all the bragging about respect for law enforcement, did trump pay his respects to the Capitol police officer who lost his life in the attack? I didn’t hear if he attended.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> How are members of Antifa pro-fascist?


Anti facist pro ?

ha ha ha ha ha.

not only can they not define it, they are confused by the name as well. I think I recall some right wingers set up a fake antifa twitter account and they all lost their minds.


----------



## Macfury

That's right, groove. You were going to set us all straight on what Antifa "really" is. Should be easy for a well-informed guy like you!



groovetube said:


> Anti facist pro ?
> 
> ha ha ha ha ha.
> 
> not only can they not define it, they are confused by the name as well. I think I recall some right wingers set up a fake antifa twitter account and they all lost their minds.


----------



## groovetube

Good god, you’re fearful of this horrible thing apparently and you’re asking ME what it is?

I havent a clue. What the hell are you talking about?? Did it hurt you in some way? Why are you so afraid of whatever this is??


----------



## Macfury

You keep telling people here they have no idea what Antifa is. Now you're saying you don't have a clue.



groovetube said:


> I havent a clue. What the hell are you talking about?? Did it hurt you in some way? Why are you so afraid of whatever this is??


----------



## groovetube

not that many posts and you’ve melted down already!

Then why are you moaning about antifa then? Explain yourself!

The floors yours.


----------



## Macfury

You clearly have no ability to define Antifa despite lashing out at others for "getting it wrong." 

It's a bit sad to see an aging hipster such as yourself posturing like that.


----------



## groovetube

Who said you got it wrong?? Got what wrong?

Is this another one of those inexplicable phobias you're blurting out? We can't keep track. 

Im aging as you are but Im no hipster sadly.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> Who said you got it wrong?? Got what wrong?
> 
> Is this another one of those inexplicable phobias you're blurting out? We can't keep track.
> 
> Im aging as you are but Im no hipster sadly.





groovetube said:


> ha ha ha ha ha.
> 
> not only can they not define it, they are confused by the name as well.


----------



## groovetube

I didn’t say you got it wrong macfury. I said you can’t even define it despite being asked several times. This isn’t some kind of quiz, I asked because I really have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

still waiting!

see Freddie, this is what I meant when I said they are incapable of explaining themselves. They cower in terror over something that when asked, they can’t say what it is! And they just melt down into unintelligible nonsense if you ask them. So we’ll never know.


----------



## Macfury

Define it then, if you say other have failed — should be as easy as calling out other members of EhMac for their ignorance! We can be done with this with just a few sage words from you...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Good god, you’re fearful of this horrible thing apparently and you’re asking ME what it is?
> 
> I havent a clue. What the hell are you talking about?? Did it hurt you in some way? Why are you so afraid of whatever this is??


Show me on the doll where Antifa touched you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I didn’t say you got it wrong macfury. I said you can’t even define it despite being asked several times. This isn’t some kind of quiz, I asked because I really have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.
> 
> still waiting!
> 
> see Freddie, this is what I meant when I said they are incapable of explaining themselves. They cower in terror over something that when asked, they can’t say what it is! And they just melt down into unintelligible nonsense if you ask them. So we’ll never know.


Yup. Macfury prefers to make the other guy do all the work while offering precious little information of his own.


----------



## groovetube

completely melted right down. All I did was ask him what he thought antifa was and he’s freaking out. Now he wants me to spoon feed him. Yikes.

doesn’t take much I guess.


----------



## Macfury

The Bobbsey Twins can't answer a simple question, even when they're tag-teaming! I rest my case.


----------



## groovetube

Awww, he’s mad now.

bah ha ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan and I know when we've been defeated by superior intellect.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> eMacMan and I know when we've been defeated by superior intellect.


eMacMan believes Antifa is pro-fascism. Shows you which basket you’re putting all your eggs in.


----------



## groovetube

"defeated." What is it with you Trump sorts that everything has to be defined in terms of 'winning and losing'? 

No, I don't think anyone 'won' in this exchange at all. It was an embarrassing load of crap no one wants to read. You can whine about me all you like, but I see during the 7 years I was gone, you and your cohorts simply found other people to go after. Now there's only a few left and you still go after them as well. I see the other members still refuse to post here even during my 7 year absence. Is the goal to be the last man standing? It must be,

Remember this line? 


> It's one individual. Eliminate that single mouthy simpleton problem and the boards return to some semblance of normality.


ha ha ha ha ha ha. Despite the overwhelming evidence of years to the contrary, I doubt the hilarity of this will ever sink in.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> eMacMan believes Antifa is pro-fascism. Shows you which basket you’re putting all your eggs in.


Its becoming slim pickings.


----------



## eMacMan

I can see how the anti-fa name could confuse someone who looks at the name, rather than what they do. This group advocates censorship, and censorship is a cornerstone of the foundations of tyranny and fascism. Furthermore they are funded by oligarchs who are pressing hard for global fascism. As with most Soros sponsored groups the name is chosen to be the exact opposite of that which they are trying to accomplish.


----------



## groovetube

OHHH MAH GAAAAWDDDD! GEORGE SOROOOOOOOSSSSS!!!!!

RUNNN!!!!!!!


----------



## Macfury

Careful eMacMan, You're talking to people who have only the most basic grasp of human history... Big Bang, Dinosaurs, Confederation, Today. I believe groovetube has suffered a stroke and you may be responsible.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Careful eMacMan, You're talking to people who have only the most basic grasp of human history... Big Bang, Dinosaurs, Confederation, Today. I believe groovetube has suffered a stroke and you may be responsible.


Could also just be brain damage. I'm sure he has done as he was told and trebled down on the face diapers. So we could be seeing the results of Oxygen deprivation and/or excessive CO2 levels in his blood.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Could also just be brain damage. I'm sure he has done as he was told and trebled down on the face diapers. So we could be seeing the results of Oxygen deprivation and/or excessive CO2 levels in his blood.


Not surprised that you believe masks affect oxygen and CO2 levels. What’s funny is that you think your belief is based on science.


----------



## groovetube

And that’s fury’s buddy!

get it where you can I guess


----------



## groovetube

This article may be behind a paywall, But it's popping up everywhere else about the incredible fleecing of hundreds of millions based on the promise that, get this, the overwhelming evidence of voter fraud is comin, any day now! Meanwhile party operatives and their loyalists are just gorging themselves on this goldmine of stupidity.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/true-vote-lawsuit-fraud-eshelman/2021/02/15/a7017adc-6724-11eb-886d-5264d4ceb46d_story.html



Might explain why some don't want to talk about what's actually happening! But apparently, we will so surprised in, 2 weeks! Oh we're gonna see because we just don't understand how it works! Praise the lord and pass the damn loot pardner!


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not surprised that you believe masks affect oxygen and CO2 levels. What’s funny is that you think your belief is based on science.


Actually I have a pulse oximeter. Lying in bed breathing normally at the end of 2 minutes my blood Oxygen level is 96 and pulse rate 55. Wearing a properly fitted 2 layer mask, again for two minutes, again normal breathing, and it drops to 89 with a pulse rate of 65. Keep in mind that this is totally relaxed, zero stress on the body and that any blood oxygen level below 90 is considered the danger zone. The slightly elevated pulse is a good indicator that CO2 levels are elevated as well. 

It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that fresh air contains less that 500ppm CO2, whereas the breath we exhale is at 50,000ppm. That information is readily available from a multitude of sources. If you rebreath just 10% of the previous breath that means instead of inhaling air that is 500ppmCO2, you are inhaling air that is 5000ppm CO2. I grant that is way beyond Freddie Math skills but true regardless.

I suppose if you drink enough Covid Kool-Aid you could consider masks safe, otherwise better to risk the fine.


----------



## groovetube

Sounds like someone has had a little too much kool-aid himself you know wad I mean you know wad I mean?

maybe you should head down to all the hospitals and warn all the doctors and nurses who wear them 12 hours a day they might be in grave danger! Because your knockoff little pulse meter in bed is a credible medical device!

Are you sure you put it on your finger???


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Sounds like someone has had a little too much kool-aid himself you know wad I mean you know wad I mean?
> 
> maybe you should head down to all the hospitals and warn all the doctors and nurses who wear them 12 hours a day they might be in grave danger! Because your knockoff little pulse meter in bed is a credible medical device!
> 
> Are you sure you put it on your finger???


Let him rant. He’s never going to consider any stats from anyone that doesn’t match his confirmation bias anyway.

 https://www.lung.org/blog/covid-masks


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> eMacMan believes Antifa is pro-fascism. Shows you which basket you’re putting all your eggs in.


I am not sure how anyone sees Antifa as anything but a fascist group that is anti free speech and violently opposes anyone who disagrees with them under the guise that they are fighting "nazi's" so anything is justified. They seem to be the only group that had regular book burnings and violent attempts at stopping free speech on university campuses rather then engage in public debate which was regularly called for yet few if any were willing to do more then make loud noises, cover their faces and attack people. I do not care what side of the political fence you stand, I do not understand how anyone can support Antifa or their actions.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I am not sure how anyone sees Antifa as anything but a fascist group that is anti free speech and violently opposes anyone who disagrees with them under the guise that they are fighting "nazi's" so anything is justified. They seem to be the only group that had regular book burnings and violent attempts at stopping free speech on university campuses rather then engage in public debate which was regularly called for yet few if any were willing to do more then make loud noises, cover their faces and attack people. I do not care what side of the political fence you stand, I do not understand how anyone can support Antifa or their actions.


Another post on this group called Antifa. So, who, exactly, is Antifa? Who is their leadership, is there an organized network across the country? And what specific actions by this 'group', is facist?

I tried to ask macfury and all he could do was deflect and be a jerk, because I have to assume obviously, he doesn't know. I am not aware of any groups called 'Antifa' So I have no idea why he thought to ask me. So that's why Im asking.

I don't know, so perhaps before we can make all these statements, we first need to know who, Antifa actually is. Trump supporters seem to really know, yet, never say what it actually _is_.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> Another post on this group called Antifa. So, who, exactly, is Antifa? Who is their leadership, is there an organized network across the country? And what specific actions by this 'group', is facist?
> 
> I tried to ask macfury and all he could do was deflect and be a jerk, because I have to assume obviously, he doesn't know. I am not aware of any groups called 'Antifa' So I have no idea why he thought to ask me. So that's why Im asking.
> 
> I don't know, so perhaps before we can make all these statements, we first need to know who, Antifa actually is. Trump supporters seem to really know, yet, never say what it actually _is_.


I think Wikipedia best describes it:

*Antifa* (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] *This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.*

I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> Actually I have a pulse oximeter. Lying in bed breathing normally at the end of 2 minutes my blood Oxygen level is 96 and pulse rate 55. Wearing a properly fitted 2 layer mask, again for two minutes, again normal breathing, and it drops to 89 with a pulse rate of 65. Keep in mind that this is totally relaxed, zero stress on the body and that any blood oxygen level below 90 is considered the danger zone. The slightly elevated pulse is a good indicator that CO2 levels are elevated as well.


So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it. 

Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.

How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I think Wikipedia best describes it:
> 
> *Antifa* (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] *This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.*
> 
> I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.


How is this any worse than the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and numerous other right wing groups? At least Antifa is protesting fascism, not embracing it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it.
> 
> Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.
> 
> How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.


There you go.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> How is this any worse than the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and numerous other right wing groups? At least Antifa is protesting fascism, not embracing it.


I have never said they were better, and it does not justify because someone else is doing something wrong. That really is the childhood reaction these groups and people who support one side or the other use, "they did it first!".

Is Antifa really protesting fascism? They seem to be acting in a very fascist way which in my mind is promoting it. What does a group who tries to silence anyone who disagrees with them, burn books, riot and use acts of violence to silence opposition which includes fire bombs, trying to shut down speaking events on university campuses and more sound like to you? This seems like the actions of a fascist group, quelling all opposing thought. I would say the same to any group that does this, be it the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and any other group. I don't think any of these groups should be held up as heroes because they are not.


----------



## Macfury

Dr. Groovetube received his medical degree from Global Television, with additional studies at the University of Now! Magazine.



groovetube said:


> Sounds like someone has had a little too much kool-aid himself you know wad I mean you know wad I mean?
> 
> maybe you should head down to all the hospitals and warn all the doctors and nurses who wear them 12 hours a day they might be in grave danger! Because your knockoff little pulse meter in bed is a credible medical device!
> 
> Are you sure you put it on your finger???


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> So do I, so I figured hey neat, I'll do the same. 3 samples of each. Because taking one measurement is absolutely shoddy science. Of course, so is taking several samples from just one person and forming any sort of conclusion from it.
> 
> Wouldn't you know it, no significant change. The average with mask on was actually 99, without 98. Given the error rate for consumer pulse oximeters that's not unexpected. Nor are your results. Next up I'll try it with two masks.
> 
> How can you have zero stress with a mask on, when masks seem to be the cause of hundreds of horrendous conditions, according to your 15 minute visit to a local coffee shop? That would stress me out.


I too repeated 3 times. There was a consistent 5-7% difference. I used two layers of thin cotton flannel, wrapped in such a manner as to prevent leakage around the sides and the nose. I concentrated on nasal breathing, 2 seconds in and 2 seconds out with just a slight pause between. Reading was taken at the end of two minutes.

I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.

I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.

Point is the important numbers are how wearing a mask impacts you, not some super healthy guy on CTV, and the experiment is quite easy and inexpensive to perform. I'm getting older, my lung function is good but not perfect and wearing a properly sealing mask does negatively impact my blood oxygen levels with normal breathing. My tests were as objective as I could make them, and my conclusion is that it would not be safe for me to wear a mask for any extended period of time. 

Yes I could have worn a mask that bled air in every direction and most people do, but of course such masks offer zero protection. They do however clearly label you as being willing to submit to submit to tyranny.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Actually I have a pulse oximeter. Lying in bed breathing normally at the end of 2 minutes my blood Oxygen level is 96 and pulse rate 55. Wearing a properly fitted 2 layer mask, again for two minutes, again normal breathing, and it drops to 89 with a pulse rate of 65. Keep in mind that this is totally relaxed, zero stress on the body and that any blood oxygen level below 90 is considered the danger zone. The slightly elevated pulse is a good indicator that CO2 levels are elevated as well.
> 
> It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that fresh air contains less that 500ppm CO2, whereas the breath we exhale is at 50,000ppm. That information is readily available from a multitude of sources. If you rebreath just 10% of the previous breath that means instead of inhaling air that is 500ppmCO2, you are inhaling air that is 5000ppm CO2. I grant that is way beyond Freddie Math skills but true regardless.


Freddie's degree at the Google School of Medicine selects only the top "approved" links considered "safe" by the Google gods. If the mask prevents any particle from entering or leaving the lungs it decreases air exchange as it resists air flow. That does not change the oxygen/CO2 balance of the air entering the lungs, but eventually changes the levels of oxygen saturation of the blood as exhalation is resisted. The question is not whether this occurs at all, but the degree to which it occurs.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.
> 
> I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.


I for one hope they've managed to get surgery times down below two minutes, based on that. Or we'll have a ton of dead surgeons. Right? Clearly they should all be right in the ICU! Right? I'm starting to worry that my wife is in fact undead, given she's been wearing masks to work since the beginning, for hours on end.

If we're taking anecdotes as evidence, there's always this from Dr. Lewis:

“I had been wearing a mask in clinic all day and one of my Twitter critics had requested I *measure my oxygen level after 8 hours of use*,” said Lewis. “I put it on and, of course, there was *no change in my [oxygen] saturation*. Then I thought: how many masks would it take to drop my sat?* And before I knew it I was wearing the entire box (probably about 30)*,” he added.

*Despite wearing not just one mask, but an entire box, Lewis’ oxygen saturation remained high and well within the normal range.

“I wanted to highlight the absurdity of the hypoxia argument from wearing PPE. Essentially since we learned about antiseptic procedures and germ theory from Ignaz Semmelweis and Joseph Lister we’ve been using coverings of one sort or another to avoid transmitting infection as healthcare workers,” said Lewis.*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> I too repeated 3 times. There was a consistent 5-7% difference. I used two layers of thin cotton flannel, wrapped in such a manner as to prevent leakage around the sides and the nose. I concentrated on nasal breathing, 2 seconds in and 2 seconds out with just a slight pause between. Reading was taken at the end of two minutes.
> 
> I should note that I could control outcome with breathing styles. Taking deep inhales through the nose and longer complete exhales via the mouth would give me 99-100% oxygen readings without the mask and around 95-98% with. In both cases it raised my pulse rate slightly. However it is almost impossible to maintain that style of breathing for an extended period of time.
> 
> I think shallow breathing is the norm for most mask wearers. Certainly when shopping I hardly ever observe any mask movement and that would clearly indicate shallow breathing. Makes sense as that is how you breath when you are afraid, and I am sure many wear masks because they are afraid. Anyways shallow breathing results were more dramatic. 92-95% no mask, below normal range but still OK. And 83-87% masked, clearly outside the safe range.
> 
> Point is the important numbers are how wearing a mask impacts you, not some super healthy guy on CTV, and the experiment is quite easy and inexpensive to perform. I'm getting older, my lung function is good but not perfect and wearing a properly sealing mask does negatively impact my blood oxygen levels with normal breathing. My tests were as objective as I could make them, and my conclusion is that it would not be safe for me to wear a mask for any extended period of time.
> 
> Yes I could have worn a mask that bled air in every direction and most people do, but of course such masks offer zero protection. They do however clearly label you as being willing to submit to submit to tyranny.


I can understand your frustration. My job requires me to mask up unless I can maintain six feet of distance between me and the nearest student at the front of the row, so you can be sure I arrange the desks so I have six feet of distance and mask up when I have to. I would not want to wear a mask all the time either. They’re a necessary evil, and I can assure you when I sneeze or anyone else does, the aerosols are going to be severely curtailed by wearing a mask. Without a mask, a sneeze can travel 8 m—almost the entire width of my room.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I think Wikipedia best describes it:
> 
> *Antifa* (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈænti(ˈ)fɑː/) is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[4][5][6] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[2] *This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.*
> 
> I bolded the last sentence as that is the scary part. Anyone they deem to belong to what they disagree with justifies them.


Well, I guess that's much better than I got from macfury, who seems to be still, in some kind of hissy fit. But a wikipedia link isn't, what the question was. I'm aware of what antifa is believed to be, what's it's basic definition might be, conceptually, and that there have been protestors who may have said they're 'antifa'. But I asked, who specifically is antifa? What are the groups, who are the leaders? I'll tell you why I originally asked the question in the first place before the hissy fit began.

Let's swing back to why I originally asked who they were. (not what they are believed to be...) It was alleged, that when the violent protestors took over the capitol building on Jan. 6, that there were antifa agitators in the crowd, with some kind of vague implication that the violence wasn't real Trump supporters, they were antifa agitators dressed up as Trump supporters. Even Trump himself has implied this. certainly legions of the right wing 'entertainment news' sites, his supporters and politicians have done so since then, with little to no evidence. So then, what and who exactly, is antifa that these allegations have any merit? Surely those making the charge must know to make these allegations! I haven't seen a shred of any evidence of this, beyond a handful of just laughable stretches common in the far right 'entertainment' infowars type sources. There was the same lack of evidence in the charges of widespread voter fraud incidentally, so this is hardly a surprise. Any questions as to who exactly is antifa and why anyone would think those violent protestors on Jan. 6 were actually antifa dressed up as trump supporters, is just baseless.

But now we're going further, completely forgetting about the reason why this came up here (and subsequently led of some childish thing macfury is known for...) and we're acting as though, antifa, is the violent extremists we need to be concerned about, and questions regarding this whole thing is merely met with implications that you must support them if you dare ask deeper questions. Make no mistake, the vast majority of who you might consider 'left wing protestors', or BLM, etc., are peaceful protestors who are appalled at the violent ones, who seem to be getting most of the attention. Right wing media has been amping the whole BLM = antifa numbskullery for quite some time now, it sure pumps the fleecing of donations that's for sure, witness the hundreds of millions brought in because of the widespread voter fraud allegations clearly made by Trump, which these violent protestors acted upon that day on Jan.6! Even though Trump's own lawyers themselves, have answered the judges when asked if they were there to prove voter fraud in court, that they are not alleging voter fraud. Because in a court room, its not like a forum like here where you can just mouth off on just horsesh!t and there are few consequences, and you can do what macfury does if questioned, act like a 5 year old who was denied another piece cake. But it didn't matter that there isn't any evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have swung the election.
( In Court, Trump's Lawyers Aren't Claiming 'Massive' Fraud )


> In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.
> 
> In a separate state case in Montgomery County, Pa., a judge asked Trump lawyer Jonathan S. Goldstein whether he was alleging fraud. “Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith.” The judge pressed Goldstein to answer the specific question: “Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” To which Goldstein replied: “To my knowledge at present, no.”


Trump, and other right wing organizations has been able to just fleece the unwitting supporters of their money and now, those trump supporters who really believed they were acting on what they were told they should do, may be hung out to dry.

Oh, but they were antifa! First there needs to be a clear discussion on what and who, antifa specifically is before anyone can begin to take those allegations with any level of credibility at all.

As far as what antifa is supposed to be, or groups or collections of individuals who may have said they were antifa and committed acts of violence, as someone who likely leans slightly left of centre,I have no problem denouncing any and all violence by any of those people without reservation. And, despite the lies to the contrary, (which may be difficult to accept if you're a true Trump supporter...) US prez Biden has on multiple occasions clearly denounced the violence. As detailed here in this Reuters article (cue left wing rag blah blah) Fact check: Joe Biden has condemned Antifa, violent protests

Now Im not going to pretend that all Trump supporters are violent insurrectionists like the ones on Jan. 6. In fact I know full well they aren't.

But unlike Biden who has denounced the violence clearly, I don't think Mr. 'stand down and stand by', 'go home, we love you', can say the same thing. What needs to happen before any of this crap can even have a chance at getting better, is for the lies to stop, and conversations need to happen. The sh!t Im seeing all over Facebook, and even here with a couple who offer nothing but hissy fits, Im not feeling particularly optimistic at the moment.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Freddie's degree at the Google School of Medicine selects only the top "approved" links considered "safe" by the Google gods. If the mask prevents any particle from entering or leaving the lungs it decreases air exchange as it resists air flow. That does not change the oxygen/CO2 balance of the air entering the lungs, but eventually changes the levels of oxygen saturation of the blood as exhalation is resisted. The question is not whether this occurs at all, but the degree to which it occurs.


Perhaps you should explain that to the medical personnel who have been wearing masks for years. I’m sure they’d appreciate the information coming from an expert such as yourself.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you should explain that to the medical personnel who have been wearing masks for years. I’m sure they’d appreciate the information coming from an expert such as yourself.


it's literally too stupid to even address. If you read it in Homer Simpson's voice it's at least somewhat funny.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> it's literally too stupid to even address. If you read it in Homer Simpson's voice it's at least somewhat funny.


D’oh!


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> Well, I guess that's much better than I got from macfury, who seems to be still, in some kind of hissy fit. But a wikipedia link isn't, what the question was. I'm aware of what antifa is believed to be, what's it's basic definition might be, conceptually, and that there have been protestors who may have said they're 'antifa'. But I asked, who specifically is antifa? What are the groups, who are the leaders? I'll tell you why I originally asked the question in the first place before the hissy fit began.
> 
> Let's swing back to why I originally asked who they were. (not what they are believed to be...) It was alleged, that when the violent protestors took over the capitol building on Jan. 6, that there were antifa agitators in the crowd, with some kind of vague implication that the violence wasn't real Trump supporters, they were antifa agitators dressed up as Trump supporters. Even Trump himself has implied this. certainly legions of the right wing 'entertainment news' sites, his supporters and politicians have done so since then, with little to no evidence. So then, what and who exactly, is antifa that these allegations have any merit? Surely those making the charge must know to make these allegations! I haven't seen a shred of any evidence of this, beyond a handful of just laughable stretches common in the far right 'entertainment' infowars type sources. There was the same lack of evidence in the charges of widespread voter fraud incidentally, so this is hardly a surprise. Any questions as to who exactly is antifa and why anyone would think those violent protestors on Jan. 6 were actually antifa dressed up as trump supporters, is just baseless.
> 
> But now we're going further, completely forgetting about the reason why this came up here (and subsequently led of some childish thing macfury is known for...) and we're acting as though, antifa, is the violent extremists we need to be concerned about, and questions regarding this whole thing is merely met with implications that you must support them if you dare ask deeper questions. Make no mistake, the vast majority of who you might consider 'left wing protestors', or BLM, etc., are peaceful protestors who are appalled at the violent ones, who seem to be getting most of the attention. Right wing media has been amping the whole BLM = antifa numbskullery for quite some time now, it sure pumps the fleecing of donations that's for sure, witness the hundreds of millions brought in because of the widespread voter fraud allegations clearly made by Trump, which these violent protestors acted upon that day on Jan.6! Even though Trump's own lawyers themselves, have answered the judges when asked if they were there to prove voter fraud in court, that they are not alleging voter fraud. Because in a court room, its not like a forum like here where you can just mouth off on just horsesh!t and there are few consequences, and you can do what macfury does if questioned, act like a 5 year old who was denied another piece cake. But it didn't matter that there isn't any evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have swung the election.
> ( In Court, Trump's Lawyers Aren't Claiming 'Massive' Fraud )
> 
> 
> Trump, and other right wing organizations has been able to just fleece the unwitting supporters of their money and now, those trump supporters who really believed they were acting on what they were told they should do, may be hung out to dry.
> 
> Oh, but they were antifa! First there needs to be a clear discussion on what and who, antifa specifically is before anyone can begin to take those allegations with any level of credibility at all.
> 
> As far as what antifa is supposed to be, or groups or collections of individuals who may have said they were antifa and committed acts of violence, as someone who likely leans slightly left of centre,I have no problem denouncing any and all violence by any of those people without reservation. And, despite the lies to the contrary, (which may be difficult to accept if you're a true Trump supporter...) US prez Biden has on multiple occasions clearly denounced the violence. As detailed here in this Reuters article (cue left wing rag blah blah) Fact check: Joe Biden has condemned Antifa, violent protests
> 
> Now Im not going to pretend that all Trump supporters are violent insurrectionists like the ones on Jan. 6. In fact I know full well they aren't.
> 
> But unlike Biden who has denounced the violence clearly, I don't think Mr. 'stand down and stand by', 'go home, we love you', can say the same thing. What needs to happen before any of this crap can even have a chance at getting better, is for the lies to stop, and conversations need to happen. The sh!t Im seeing all over Facebook, and even here with a couple who offer nothing but hissy fits, Im not feeling particularly optimistic at the moment.


I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa". 

I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization. I have no issues with protesting, I think it is an important right to stand up to our governments, I am opposed to the violence and vandalism that people from all sides of the table are guilty of.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa".


Well, not really, but that's ok. I don't think we need to belabour this, because...



wonderings said:


> I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization. I have no issues with protesting, I think it is an important right to stand up to our governments, I am opposed to the violence and vandalism that people from all sides of the table are guilty of.


I'm in agreement with this.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I don't know anything about Antifa being at the riots at the Capital building, honestly I don't care who was there under what name, they should all be locked up. I am probably missing some of the argument here though on antifa in that riot and why it matters. For me it does not. I would not be surprised though if there were people who just take advantage of these situations and may riot under Antifa and do the same for BLM or any other organization.


Violent protesters like finding opportunities to beat people up, light fires, and break glass. To a large extent, they're used as shock troops by people who who manipulate them for their own political ends. You can find plenty of repeat participants under various banners at events across the US.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I do believe the wikipedia answered some of your questions, and specifically the who they are. They are individual groups or cells that act independently yet for the same causes/ideals. I would say this is probably a smart approach in some ways as if things get really bad those who get in trouble are where it ends as they have no links to others acting under the name "Antifa".


It's an old playbook, just like the "anarchists" of history who were actually organized.


----------



## Macfury

Actually, Dr. Google, It's the medical community and researchers who identify the possibility of this effect. If you and your colleague Dr. Now! looked beyond the "top search results selected for you" you might be better informed.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Perhaps you should explain that to the medical personnel who have been wearing masks for years. I’m sure they’d appreciate the information coming from an expert such as yourself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Actually, Dr. Google, It's the medical community and researchers who identify the possibility of this effect. If you and your colleague Dr. Now! looked beyond the "top search results selected for you" you might be better informed.


Please read Pollywog’s post #20951 again.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Please read Pollywog’s post #20951 again.


He's just butthurt. He's not interested in expert medical opinions because apparently, if it can be found on google, it's bad.

Let him believe that masks might kill him.

who cares?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> He's just butthurt. He's not interested in expert medical opinions because apparently, if it can be found on google, it's bad.
> 
> Let him believe that masks might kill him.
> 
> who cares?


He doesn’t even trust the experience of a fellow ehMacer!


----------



## Macfury

Oh gosh, that stings!



Freddie_Biff said:


> He doesn’t even trust the experience of a fellow ehMacer!


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Actually, Dr. Google, It's the medical community and researchers who identify the possibility of this effect. If you and your colleague Dr. Now! looked beyond the "top search results selected for you" you might be better informed.


Of course Doctors do not breath entirely through medical masks as there are enough gaps that air flows around the mask as well as through it. Even so they are aware that the dangers of Hypoxia and or Hypercapnea do still exist, so the air in operating theatres is enriched with additional Oxygen.

Again not something mentioned on the lamestream. I learned this via the simplest of routes. I asked a local surgeon.


----------



## groovetube

.


----------



## groovetube

I asked a local doctor and he said it was true!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Of course Doctors do not breath entirely through medical masks as there are enough gaps that air flows around the mask as well as through it. Even so they are aware that the dangers of Hypoxia and or Hypercapnea do still exist, so the air in operating theatres is enriched with additional Oxygen.
> 
> Again not something mentioned on the lamestream. I learned this via the simplest of routes. I asked a local surgeon.


The air flows around the mask for regular people too. Your point? The purpose of the mask is so that if you sneeze or cough you don’t spread your mucousy droplets across the room for someone else to breathe in. It’s about helping others more than yourself. This shouldn’t be so hard to understand.


----------



## groovetube

This guy followed me around into the shang giving me medical advice for a friend I had with copd and covid. And doohickey is calling us dr google. Really beyond stupidity at this point.


----------



## polywog

eMacMan said:


> Of course Doctors do not breath entirely through medical masks as there are enough gaps that air flows around the mask as well as through it. Even so they are aware that the dangers of Hypoxia and or Hypercapnea do still exist, so the air in operating theatres is enriched with additional Oxygen.
> 
> Again not something mentioned on the lamestream. I learned this via the simplest of routes. I asked a local surgeon.


I am eager to hear how your less than medical grade mask caused a significant drop in saturation and heart rate elevation, then. Is it Saran Wrap? If not it will have the same gaps, or worse. How come you can have a properly fitted mask, but professionals can't?

If your mask causes a ~10% drop in saturation _after two minutes_, and we assume the same for surgeons, just how much oxygen do you think they need to pump into the environment to compensate? I'd be more worried about going up in an explosion than suffocation.

There's a neat study about surgery, masks and deoxygenation. It's from 2008. In all cases, the difference was 1% or less. Not 10%. Not after 2 minutes. Less that 1%, after several orders of magnitude MORE time passing than you're reporting. While on their feet, in a stressful environment. In all cases, SpO2 was still above 95%.



https://ratical.org/PandemicParallaxView/Bader-SurgMaskIndDeoxygen.pdf


----------



## groovetube

Don't the medical staff in ERs all mask up with surgical masks then N95s on top of that? Pretty sure it's crucial they make sure there's no air gaps, and even more sure they aren't pumping 10% oxygen throughout all the ER and all hallways.

I think either we're dealing with a total nincompoop or a troll. And it's macfury's buddy to boot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The mind boggles. I will continue to wear my cloth mask at work because a) it’s required, and b) it’s not that much of an imposition to show consideration toward others. Thanks for the info, Polywog. It helps counter the gaslighting.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> The mind boggles. I will continue to wear my cloth mask at work because a) it’s required, and b) it’s not that much of an imposition to show consideration toward others. Thanks for the info, Polywog. It helps counter the gaslighting.


I wonder if there is a trend that will be moving away from cloth masks. I have dropped in at 2 clients offices that no longer allow for cloth masks and ask that you use their medical masks. First I had heard of this and then had 2 places in one day.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I wonder if there is a trend that will be moving away from cloth masks. I have dropped in at 2 clients offices that no longer allow for cloth masks and ask that you use their medical masks. First I had heard of this and then had 2 places in one day.


I wouldn’t doubt it, the threat of the newer variants seem to be concerning experts, and while the conspiracy twits will twist that as they have been doing this whole time, truthfully they are likely running clinical trials and gathering data because they still aren’t completely sure how much more contagious these variants are (though recently they seem more sure of that as data comes in) Or, if the new variants are deadlier or not. So I’m seeing recommendations moving towards more medical grade masks. Also, manufacturing capacity of medical grade masks have ramped up, so perhaps that’s also a factor, that they’re more available now to the public.

But of course, as recommendations change over time as data and more research comes in, that’s all the proof the nuts need to scream that Fauci lied or is ‘in on it’... take your pick.

I bet though, that even if this whole thing gets resolved and things are back to normal, (whatever that really means) it’s likely you’ll see many people still wearing masks. Probably not a bad idea in crowded situations like public transit etc to keep flu numbers down.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> I wouldn’t doubt it, the threat of the newer variants seem to be concerning experts, and while the conspiracy twits will twist that as they have been doing this whole time, truthfully they are likely running clinical trials and gathering data because they still aren’t completely sure how much more contagious these variants are (though recently they seem more sure of that as data comes in) Or, if the new variants are deadlier or not. So I’m seeing recommendations moving towards more medical grade masks. Also, manufacturing capacity of medical grade masks have ramped up, so perhaps that’s also a factor, that they’re more available now to the public.
> 
> But of course, as recommendations change over time as data and more research comes in, that’s all the proof the nuts need to scream that Fauci lied or is ‘in on it’... take your pick.
> 
> I bet though, that even if this whole thing gets resolved and things are back to normal, (whatever that really means) it’s likely you’ll see many people still wear masks. Probably not a bad idea in crowded situations like public transit etc to keep flu numbers down.


There has been a definite difference here health wise. Don't think we have had anyone down and out with a cold or flu at all this year. I know I usually get a bad cold come November/December. Nothing so far! I hope it is not considered a mandatory thing in the future, I can see people doing it out of consideration when they are sick but I really do not want to see this become the norm.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> There has been a definite difference here health wise. Don't think we have had anyone down and out with a cold or flu at all this year. I know I usually get a bad cold come November/December. Nothing so far! I hope it is not considered a mandatory thing in the future, I can see people doing it out of consideration when they are sick but I really do not want to see this become the norm.


I doubt it'll be mandatory, mostly for political reasons, not so much for health. No political party, not even the liberals will want to wear that one in an election. Maybe the NDP, but its a safe one for them as the possibility of them taking power federally is very unlikely. But, it'll be great fodder for the conspiracy types. Im sure we'll hear on this subject soon enough!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I wonder if there is a trend that will be moving away from cloth masks. I have dropped in at 2 clients offices that no longer allow for cloth masks and ask that you use their medical masks. First I had heard of this and then had 2 places in one day.


Good question. I have a feeling that the current 2 layer cloth masks are about as much as most people will tolerate, mostly because they’re already bought and paid for. People will comply if the expectations are reasonable. It’s like getting people to pay 99 cents a song on iTunes even though they used to get them for free. Now it’s all about streaming subscriptions but people are still willing to pay if the cost is reasonable. I believe that’s how it will be with masks.


----------



## groovetube

6 Capitol Police officers suspended, 29 others being investigated for alleged roles in riot


Six US Capitol Police officers have been suspended with pay, and 29 others have been placed under investigation, for their actions in the January 6 riot, a department spokesman said Thursday.




www.cnn.com





hardly a surprise. The rot runs deep. I’m sure a lot more will be revealed as the light gets shined on the scattering roaches. Wonder if these were the anti.. er... droids some were desparatly looking for


----------



## groovetube

And in other, politician shows what an incredibly arrogant dumbass he is... news, here’s Cruz high tailing it to a sunny vaca in Mexico with his family while the state he leads, a supposed energy powerhouse suffers under a totally mismanaged power grid system failure.

freedumb!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And now Cruz admits it was not a good decision. But that didn’t stop him from going! Better to ask for forgiveness than permission I guess. What a tool.


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> And now Cruz admits it was not a good decision. But that didn’t stop him from going!


That position doesn't make a lot of sense, unless he admitted it wasn't a good decision prior to going. Or am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, I think he was a blockhead for going, but admitting he made a mistake seems to be a strange thing to bash on him for, even if he only did it because of the backlash.


----------



## groovetube

Because that's what we see the right wingers do. It's the tit for tat thing, I do it, everyone who bellyaches about politics does it. Politicians have learned the little song and dance of doing something really douchey, get caught, oh, that wasn't the best decision, you'll notice he invoked "his family" his kids wanted a trip, even though that's ridiculous in the middle of a pandemic and then this catastrophe, but they do it, and they dance it as many times as they can. The chances of it really sticking, is pretty slim, given his support would have only waned just enough, that he can sign some things, and get on a soapbox to pontificate about the hard werkin American (PATRIOT!) blah blah, and hopefully when it comes to vote time which I think is every 6 years for him, they will have forgotten and... SOCIALIST!!! (instead of squirrel!).

Yeah yeah I know, Trudeau, Obama, whatever. Same stuff, insert party here.

But what I find incredible, is Trump pulled off some the biggest scams out of all of them, and people still defend him! Bu bu bu but the economy! Oh he isn't a REAL politician (yeah just a scam artist is all...) That one isn't really about republican vs democrat anymore.

Trump really should rename his book, the art of the distraction.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> That position doesn't make a lot of sense, unless he admitted it wasn't a good decision prior to going. Or am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, I think he was a blockhead for going, but admitting he made a mistake seems to be a strange thing to bash on him for, even if he only did it because of the backlash.


I think you nailed it. He wouldn’t be admitting anything without the backlash.


----------



## Macfury

California's Governor Newsom certainly wasn't ready to apologize without a backlash.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I think you nailed it. He wouldn’t be admitting anything without the backlash.


----------



## groovetube

The age old complaint. Still going. "but mommy! He did it too!!"


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> The age old complaint. Still going. "but mommy! He did it too!!"


Good old what-aboutism! LOL


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> California's Governor Newsom certainly wasn't ready to apologize without a backlash.


With nary a a peep from the Kool-Aid Klatch


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good old what-aboutism! LOL


And they'll just still, keep kickin the can LOL.

While that useless stuff goes around in circles, in the real world, we have this item: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...053b14-751c-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html

if its behind a paywall (ie you've read your free articles for a month) I think this is likely available elsewhere.

These investigations will march on. And we'll hear about how when it comes to Trump, magically the whole judiciary is stacked against Trump. "deep state", or whatever will get tossed around. You can count on it


----------



## groovetube

Dominion sues MyPillow founder for $1.3 billion over election conspiracy theories


The defamation lawsuit is Dominion's third against Trump allies since the election.




www.nbcnews.com





I say go after every single one of them. There's a whole pile of very gullible people out there still posting about dominion machine fraud, but these sorts don't seem to understand that despite having many chances in a court of law to prove these allegations, Trump's lawyers backed down every time. Do you think it'll ever dawn on these hillbillys? It might shock some people that social media is a much different place than a court of law. But they've been worked over to blur the lines. It's amazing how little effort it really took to get them to spread it on social media and forums everywhere with absolutely not a shred of evidence whatsoever.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> And they'll just still, keep kickin the can LOL.
> 
> While that useless stuff goes around in circles, in the real world, we have this item: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...053b14-751c-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html
> 
> if its behind a paywall (ie you've read your free articles for a month) I think this is likely available elsewhere.
> 
> These investigations will march on. And we'll hear about how when it comes to Trump, magically the whole judiciary is stacked against Trump. "deep state", or whatever will get tossed around. You can count on it


Q lives! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

It's funny. They're still pushing the whole election fraud thing on these fools. But you can't blame them. The money is just gushing in. You cant make this stuff up! Praise the lord and pass the loot! Donny’s gonna save us from all those communist elite baby eating satanists! And they believe this stuff!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It's funny. They're still pushing the whole election fraud thing on these fools. But you can't blame them. The money is just gushing in. You cant make this stuff up! Praise the lord and pass the loot! Donny’s gonna save us from all those communist elite baby eating satanists! And they believe this stuff!!


March 4—circle the date! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

In 2 weeks we’ll be shocked!

We don’t know how it all works you know.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> In 2 weeks we’ll be shocked!
> 
> We don’t know how it all works you know.


I’m sure one of our learned friends will enlighten us. Just like Jan 6. Or Jan 20.


----------



## groovetube

well apparently he has much better places to have more enlightened conversations with more deserving people. Perhaps he can have pity on us enough that he can drop some more predictions.

In the meantime, Ive ordered more popcorn to watch as Trump falls deeper into the legal deep hole he's dug for himself.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> well apparently he has much better places to have more enlightened conversations with more deserving people. Perhaps he can have pity on us enough that he can drop some more predictions.
> 
> In the meantime, Ive ordered more popcorn to watch as Trump falls deeper into the legal deep hole he's dug for himself.


No more hiding behind the curtains of the presidency it seems. Those tax returns should be interesting.


----------



## groovetube

This will require a fair amount of popcorn. It will take some time for this to unfold, and we'll be treated to plenty of salacious details. To which Trump will of course use to his advantage to stay in the news, and stoke the deep state thing, which will of course, induce the hordes of dimwits to send whatever money they have into 'fight the deep state!', or whatever catch phrase is coined. They don't have to get too clever, I mean 'make America great again' went like wildfire. It doesn't take much to light up these brain cells. Praise the lord and pass the loot.

Im not holding my breath though. The Trumps were found guilty in that charity scam thing they ran, all that happened was they paid a fine and promised not to run another charity in NY, or was it that they're not allowed. Not even the fact that they were found guilty of that, and that the US president of the time couldn't run a charity in NY would make these fools stop and think for a second. Benghazi! But'er emails!!!! (never mind Bush/Cheney pulled the same sh!te...)

People have become immune to the flagrant crimes politicians commit. And actually believe the other side is the only one doing it.

Then we whine because our governments are corrupt.

You don't see many posts about the dominion voting machines these days do you


----------



## wonderings

Why does anyone need to see his tax returns? If he is doing something illegal would that not be up to the auditors and government to charge? Would these things normally be made public for anyone else?


----------



## groovetube

I don’t understand your question. Trump is being investigated by the New York state because that’s the part of ‘government’ responsible for going after this sort of crime. So they’re not just ‘anyone’. He is also at the same time in some trouble with the IRS who is investigating another matter that is in their jurisdiction. 

unlike other presidents, trump has gone to great lengths to keep his tax info secret, and now the republican heavy Supreme Court agrees with releasing them to the states DA.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> I don’t understand your question. Trump is being investigated by the New York state because that’s the part of ‘government’ responsible for going after this sort of crime. So they’re not just ‘anyone’. He is also at the same time in some trouble with the IRS who is investigating another matter that is in their jurisdiction.
> 
> unlike other presidents, trump has gone to great lengths to keep his tax info secret, and now the republican heavy Supreme Court agrees with releasing them to the states DA.


That answered my question, I was not aware of his legal issues, it is all so chaotic around him hard to keep track of what is going on. I was reading (headlines) as if it was going to be public for everyone.


----------



## groovetube

I think the fears expressed are that they will get leaked. But as we know his returns were already leaked showing what a disasterous businessman he really is, and some clues as to his legal jeopardy, but he has maintained those were incorrect and fake docs. The trouble is, if his returns do leak, many will be able confirm what a disaster he is.

I tend to try and blur out much of the sensationalist news, both sides are always amped up on every detail whether significant or not, and it’s not only tiring but tougher to wade through to get the real story.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I think Hillary nailed it five years ago. Either he’s not as rich as he’d like us to think or he’s not as charitable as he says he is. Tax returns can verify this.


----------



## groovetube

Well, there was that little thing about moving charity cancer money into their family business so when they got nailed for it they’re not allowed to run a charity in NY state I believe, and the returns have already been leaked, so we already know the man is a total fraud and a disaster as a businessman.

I had to chuckle today seeing republicans clutching their pearls about a nominee saying insulting things about them on Twitter... the same ones that were silent and complicit while trump well, you know


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It’s fun to watch the Trump dynasty unravel, one lawsuit at a time. It may take a while, but karma is definitely doing its thing.


----------



## groovetube

It is. I just don't know that we 'won' anything really, beyond stopping a major disaster from continuing on to far worse.

Once again, we've seen just how easily and quickly people can be duped on such a large scale, that something even worse can happen. That's terrifying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It is. I just don't know that we 'won' anything really, beyond stopping a major disaster from continuing on to far worse.
> 
> Once again, we've seen just how easily and quickly people can be duped on such a large scale, that something even worse can happen. That's terrifying.


Remember: keep an eye out for Mar 4—the day Trump will again be inaugurated as the 19th president of the Republic, according to Q. It’s like watching a doomsday cult that keeps getting the date wrong for the end of the world.


----------



## groovetube

And if you don’t believe that, and aren’t taking meds for dogs heart worm because covid hoax and no one is in emergency rooms, cause someone on Facebook said so, yer ‘establishment’.

being a huge Tom Waits fan, he needs to do a ‘step right up’ sort of deal for this. (From his “small change” record).


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Why does anyone need to see his tax returns? If he is doing something illegal would that not be up to the auditors and government to charge? Would these things normally be made public for anyone else?


There are no charges. It's just wholesale exploration of anything to do with Trump in hopes of finding something — anything — that can be prosecuted.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> And if you don’t believe that, and aren’t taking meds for dogs heart worm because covid hoax and no one is in emergency rooms, cause someone on Facebook said so, yer ‘establishment’.


Just curious. Warfarin is a very widely prescribed medication to prevent stroke. Since it was originally designed to be rodent poison, do you believe that it should never be used to prevent clotting?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There are no charges. It's just wholesale exploration of anything to do with Trump in hopes of finding something — anything — that can be prosecuted.


Tax evasion is still against the law. So there’s that.


----------



## Macfury

So charge Trump with tax evasion then.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Tax evasion is still against the law. So there’s that.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Just curious. Warfarin is a very widely prescribed medication to prevent stroke. Since it was originally designed to be rodent poison, do you believe that it should never be used to prevent clotting?


Meloxicam was designed to treat osteoarthritis in dogs and is now prescribed to humans. But I think it's better to just guffaw at these applications and refuse to answer any direct questions about their use.


----------



## groovetube

See this is a perfect example of why people don't take you idiots seriously. I call you idiots because of your incessant desperate need to troll, rather than try to have a normal conversation. So while you're busy guffawing at my pointing out the uses for ivermectin, you've decided to try and compare this medication that has no clinical trials, no real data for it to be prescribed to humans at all, with medications that has gone through all the proper clinical trials peer reviewed data etc etc before being prescribed for use with humans. But even that doesn't stop you two clowns from embarrassing yourselves here in your desperate need to wind people up. Let me guess macfury, since I wasn't here when this was going down, I bet you were on team hydroxychoriquin weren't you. Of course you were. I probably don't even need to ask. LOL.

If a medication has gone through the proper testing etc required before it's used to prescribe to humans, by all means, use it. If Ivermectin for whatever reason is a candidate for testing for this, by all means, run all the necessary clinical trials and go through the proper methods to determine it's efficacy. But until that happens, stop giving medical advice with it's use and STFU.

But to act like you know something more than the medical experts, calling them "establishment" and that they would refuse to use something that is clearly effective with enough clinical trials and data to show this, is just brainless.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Tax evasion is still against the law. So there’s that.


He acts as though he's never heard of the term probable cause. Expect that conversation to devolve to the level of a 5 year old.


----------



## Macfury

You school us on the Fourth Amendment, groove! Arrest all "Orange Man Bad" on probable cause!


----------



## groovetube

and the meltdown to 5 year old taunts commences, just as I said.

Why do you even bother macfury? That's just pathetic.


----------



## Macfury

Can't beat your logic, groove. Have to arrest Trump on "probable cause" because he must have done something.


----------



## groovetube

C’mon macfury! Testify!


----------



## groovetube

Despite such (anonymous) learned legal opinions here to set the entire US legal system straight that they cannot obtain subpoenas for financial records until they charge someone with a crime, this happened.

Clearly, they should have been paying much closer attention to the learned legal opinions here from an anonymous legal expert. Don’t they understand???? They must be, ‘the establishment’.


----------



## Macfury

Nobody said they can't obtain subpoenas without a charge. Guess you weren't paying atttention.



groovetube said:


> Despite such (anonymous) learned legal opinions here to set the entire US legal system straight that they cannot obtain subpoenas for financial records until they charge someone with a crime, this happened.
> 
> Clearly, they should have been paying much closer attention to the learned legal opinions here from an anonymous legal expert. Don’t they understand???? They must be, ‘the establishment’.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> There are no charges. It's just wholesale exploration of anything to do with Trump in hopes of finding something — anything — that can be prosecuted.





Macfury said:


> So charge Trump with tax evasion then.





Macfury said:


> Can't beat your logic, groove. Have to arrest Trump on "probable cause" because he must have done something.





Macfury said:


> Nobody said they can't obtain subpoenas without a charge. Guess you weren't paying atttention.


Glad to see that you changed you mind.

listen macfury, if you want to join the conversation by all means, but please leave the 5 year old crap behind please.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> So charge Trump with tax evasion then.


Would they not require his taxes, before being able to charge him? I'm not familiar with US taxes, but I feel it's probably rather complex in his case, since he wouldn't just have filings in one state?


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> Would they not require his taxes, before being able to charge him? I'm not familiar with US taxes, but I feel it's probably rather complex in his case, since he wouldn't just have filings in one state?


Interestingly thanks to FATCA it is quite likely that the Trumpeteer has had foreign accounts some over the $10,000 threshold. If not properly reported to the IRS via the F(u)BAR, and various other penalty forms, he could be on the hook for totals exceeding the amounts of the accounts, even though no taxes are actually owed on same. I believe penalties are now 33% of the value of the account, and can be assessed for multiple years and for both F(u)BAR and 8938s on the same account. In the Ts case I am sure 3520s are also required and that one carries similar penalties. FWIW none of these forms play any part in filling out US taxes, they exist entirely as a penalty scam.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Would they not require his taxes, before being able to charge him? I'm not familiar with US taxes, but I feel it's probably rather complex in his case, since he wouldn't just have filings in one state?


The IRS already has his taxes. They could flag something that could lead to charges. In New York, the District Attorney just files request after exploratory request to find something for which they might charge Trump. Imagine a court requesting anything to do with you or your business in the hopes of finding any oversight or any error and not stopping until it does.


----------



## Macfury

I gave your post a "LIKE". Your inability to distinguish between an arrest and a subpoena should win some sort of prize.



groovetube said:


> Glad to see that you changed you mind.
> 
> listen macfury, if you want to join the conversation by all means, but please leave the 5 year old crap behind please.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> The IRS already has his taxes. They could flag something that could lead to charges. In New York, the District Attorney just files request after exploratory request to find something for which they might charge Trump. Imagine a court requesting anything to do with you or your business in the hopes of finding any oversight or any error and not stopping until it does.


I was thinking that. No way they should be able to just ask for your taxes under the assumption you are hiding something. I assumed it would come from an audit. Some people go years and years evading taxes till they are audited and then the law comes down on them.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> I gave your post a "LIKE". Your inability to distinguish between an arrest and a subpoena should win some sort of prize.


I never once attempted to do so. I quoted you, so those were all your words, or have you already forgotten? And yes, I agree, it was prize! That's why I highlighted it! But not quite as prize as what followed. You're not even trying macfury. Not... even trying.



wonderings said:


> I was thinking that. *No way they should be able to just ask for your taxes under the assumption you are hiding something.* I assumed it would come from an audit. Some people go years and years evading taxes till they are audited and then the law comes down on them.


 (bold/italic mine)

No one is actually doing that. And the Supreme Court just agreed. But it doesn't stop them from trying!


----------



## Macfury

The Supreme Court didn't agree. It declined to act. Big difference.



groovetube said:


> And the Supreme Court just agreed. But it doesn't stop them from trying!


----------



## groovetube

Oh macfury, your ignorance is stunning.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I was thinking that. No way they should be able to just ask for your taxes under the assumption you are hiding something. I assumed it would come from an audit. Some people go years and years evading taxes till they are audited and then the law comes down on them.


Take a look at the vague language around what the Manhattan DA is saying. It's a fishing expedition. Based on these vague statements, the "evidence" is "presented" to a Grand Jury. Once the Grand Jury sees the documents, it's open season to look for anything it cares to— but in secret. It's as though once someone gained a warrant to search your house, they went on to forensically examine every object, every shred of paper, every hard drive in your home. They would eventually find some evidence you broke a law if that's what they wanted to find.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Take a look at the vague language around what the Manhattan DA is saying. It's a fishing expedition. Based on these vague statements, the "evidence" is "presented" to a Grand Jury. Once the Grand Jury sees the documents, it's open season to look for anything it cares to— but in secret. It's as though once someone gained a warrant to search your house, they went on to forensically examine every object, every shred of paper, every hard drive in your home. They would eventually find some evidence you broke a law if that's what they wanted to find.


Pure fiction.


----------



## Macfury

Did I just hear a little dog barking?


----------



## groovetube

There sure is! And it’s just a’yelpin gibberish! Maybe it needs a nap!


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Would they not require his taxes, before being able to charge him? I'm not familiar with US taxes, but I feel it's probably rather complex in his case, since he wouldn't just have filings in one state?


Macfury just made this whole pile of nonsense up. Ive seen almost the same stupidity repeated on Facebook many times, and it appears he's attempted to paraphrase these unsubstantiated howls here. It's pretty disappointing. He's gone from some unintelligible ranting about how they should charge trump instead, attempting to suggest that the IRS is responsible for investigating these crimes and "flagging" what, we're not sure... to all sorts of wild unsubstantiated claims of a witch hunt, (which seems to be their favourite complaint) But offers absolutely zero to suggest there's any credibility to his ridiculous claims.

These sorts were very upset when the Supreme Court denied Trump's lawyers the stay. You would think, that if there really was such an obvious overreach in this that some anonymous Canadian dingbat with no law degree can spot it, that they may have granted the stay. But they didn't. That's just how brainless this really is.

So we're treated to this fantasy land stuff, that no one can begin to even decipher. Useless.


----------



## Macfury

I think the Tasmanian Devil just whirled through here and dropped a word salad!


----------



## groovetube

You had quite the meltdown!

Well, I, like most who have been here before, can see once again, you are a waste of time. Its kinda too bad, I think it is possible to disagree and have a sense of humour, at least that exists in my circles with other conservatives. They're just not total dicks about it. I miss this place some times, but I don't miss this ****.

I think the funniest thing I read in the short few weeks Ive been here was that you thought you were changing minds.

weeee. wow. Adios!


----------



## Macfury

Glad you have friends who like to listen to you. You are clearly blessed.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury. Classy to the end. At least you’re consistent.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> The IRS already has his taxes. They could flag something that could lead to charges. In New York, the District Attorney just files request after exploratory request to find something for which they might charge Trump. Imagine a court requesting anything to do with you or your business in the hopes of finding any oversight or any error and not stopping until it does.


I get that. I was more curious about how the information flows. Is the IRS federal level and if so do the states necessarily know what the IRS do? And if the IRS is federal level, and they didn't decide to pursue charges (for something) does it mean the state cannot? I'm probably conflating Federal and Provincial government stuff.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I get that. I was more curious about how the information flows. Is the IRS federal level and if so do the states necessarily know what the IRS do? And if the IRS is federal level, and they didn't decide to pursue charges (for something) does it mean the state cannot? I'm probably conflating Federal and Provincial government stuff.


The State of New York is extremely litigious. There are stories of people who once lived in New York state pursued for as many as 10 years on the suspicion that they might have returned to New York for a couple of days and owe some of their taxes to New York. So just because the IRS accepted someone's tax filings is no reason that NY state could not pursue charges. However, the Manhattan DA in all likelihood already has the IRS tax records as filed. They are trying to force Trump's accountants to release all of their client documents as well. That's what the subpoena is about.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Glad you have friends who like to listen to you. You are clearly blessed.


It isn't about being blessed macfury. Its simply shovelling a lot less crap at people simply for kicks. It's old. We don't have to agree, but don't think that by shovelling obvious nonsense at people that you'll get a decent response. Maybe that's why for 15 years you've had nothing but issues with people here (and who knows where else)



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury. Classy to the end. At least you’re consistent.


As it is with most others who used to be here that he's tangled with. I looked back a bit here and wow. You'll generally see these types whine that it's the other person, but you'll see how after I left, or another left, it's just on to another person for the same song and dance until they throw up their hands and give up, and either leave or try to ignore him. I thought Id give him the benefit of the doubt, but boy. The responses were not only even more nonsensical, but many of the quite literally canned ones, could be out of the "trolls for dummies" circa 2005


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It isn't about being blessed macfury. Its simply shovelling a lot less crap at people simply for kicks. It's old. We don't have to agree, but don't think that by shovelling obvious nonsense at people that you'll get a decent response. Maybe that's why for 15 years you've had nothing but issues with people here (and who knows where else)
> 
> 
> 
> As it is with most others who used to be here that he's tangled with. I looked back a bit here and wow. You'll generally see these types whine that it's the other person, but you'll see how after I left, or another left, it's just on to another person for the same song and dance until they throw up their hands and give up, and either leave or try to ignore him. I thought Id give him the benefit of the doubt, but boy. The responses were not only even more nonsensical, but many of the quite literally canned ones, could be out of the "trolls for dummies" circa 2005


I wonder if trolls are aware that they’re trolls?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

It’s hard to imagine that they don’t.

But 15 years, I could be wrong!!


----------



## Macfury

I'm not whining about anybody! I don't even mind your constant negativity. Live and let live.



groovetube said:


> It isn't about being blessed macfury. Its simply shovelling a lot less crap at people simply for kicks. It's old. We don't have to agree, but don't think that by shovelling obvious nonsense at people that you'll get a decent response. Maybe that's why for 15 years you've had nothing but issues with people here (and who knows where else)
> 
> 
> 
> As it is with most others who used to be here that he's tangled with. I looked back a bit here and wow. You'll generally see these types whine that it's the other person, but you'll see how after I left, or another left, it's just on to another person for the same song and dance until they throw up their hands and give up, and either leave or try to ignore him. I thought Id give him the benefit of the doubt, but boy. The responses were not only even more nonsensical, but many of the quite literally canned ones, could be out of the "trolls for dummies" circa 2005


----------



## groovetube

See, it’s like he can’t even help himself.


----------



## polywog

Looks like the suspicions of voter fraud were warranted. 









Republican Judge Tomas ‘Tommy’ Ramirez III Arrested Over 2018 Election Fraud Allegations - Laws In Texas


Developing Story; Medina County judge Tommy Ramirez is out of jail and facing serious election fraud-related charges. He's suspended without pay.




lawsintexas.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Hey kids! Only two more days until Trump is inaugurated as the 19th president of the republic, according to QAnon. Not sure how, but trust the plan. When we go one, we go all! March 4 is coming soon!


----------



## groovetube

This morning I read that the feds have arrested one of the capitol rioters that they apparently, have found texts and other evidence that he dressed in black as an 'antifa protester' because he figured he might get away with it that way and not get arrested.

Folks, I say FOLKS, we may have found the 'antifa' infiltrators.


----------



## Macfury

How does dressing in black qualify as an "antifa costume"?


----------



## Macfury

Where does "Qanon" say this? Would be good news for the economy if true.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hey kids! Only two more days until Trump is inaugurated as the 19th president of the republic, according to QAnon. Not sure how, but trust the plan. When we go one, we go all! March 4 is coming soon!


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> How does dressing in black qualify as an "antifa costume"?


I personally wouldn’t have any idea.

That’s the information from the police. You’ll have to ask the person that did this because this is apparently what he texted and did.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Where does "Qanon" say this? Would be good news for the economy if true.


It’s funny. If you google Qanon, it gives you March 4 as the second option.

But wait! Ken here seems to think it’s March 20! And I think that might be in like, there’s abouts 2 weeks!








But why would that be great news for the economy?


----------



## groovetube

And while we concern ourselves with these tidbits tossed around, Fox News is ON IT!

damn it if they won’t let those commies snub dr. Seuss! How in American is THAT!!!


----------



## Macfury

Ken is Qanon? OK, thanks.



groovetube said:


> It’s funny. If you google Qanon, it gives you March 4 as the second option.
> 
> But wait! Ken here seems to think it’s March 20! And I think that might be in like, there’s abouts 2 weeks!
> 
> But why would that be great news for the economy?


----------



## Macfury

Do you support the publishing company's decision to stop printing those books?



groovetube said:


> And while we concern ourselves with these tidbits tossed around, Fox News is ON IT!
> 
> damn it if they won’t let those commies snub dr. Seuss! How in American is THAT!!!


----------



## groovetube

Firstly, I didn’t say ‘Ken’ was Qanon, just that he disagreed apparently with the date. Who knows who ‘Ken’ really is. But it was funny. But apparently according to you, if ‘Ken’ is right, it’ll be GREAT for our economy!

And I have no skin in the game regarding dr. Suess. No idea really, but I don’t think I’ve ever ate green eggs and ham.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Firstly, I didn’t say ‘Ken’ was Qanon, just that he disagreed apparently with the date. Who knows who ‘Ken’ really is. But it was funny. But apparently according to you, if ‘Ken’ is right, it’ll be GREAT for our economy!
> 
> And I have no skin in the game regarding dr. Suess. No idea really, but I don’t think I’ve ever ate green eggs and ham.


It’s funny how the right keeps moving the goal posts with respect to Trump’s “recoronation.” First it was Nov 3, then Dec 14, then Jan 6, then Jan 20, then Mar 4, and now Mar 20 apparently. It’s like a doomsday cult that keeps getting the date wrong. I wonder at what point Trump or his followers will simply admit they lost. Denial runs deep.

As far as Dr. Seuss, the titles in question don’t appear to be very well known titles, so if they pull them, no big loss. If they had racist overtones, like black people being represented as animals at the zoo, then it’s the right decision. I certainly like the other things he wrote.


----------



## groovetube

They did the same thing with voter fraud. They still haven't been able to offer a shred of proof. Trump's own lawyers knew when they got into court the jig was up, because while you can mouth off on social media, in court, your spun cut up YouTube videos aren't going to work. Law and order... Laugh my effing arse off ha ha ha!!!

But perhaps now some of those nut jobs will see some consequences in being sued for billions. It'll drag on in court, but what you won't see, is any of them availing themselves of the opportunity to prove their claims of fraud. It won't matter to the nut jobs, and Trump's minions know it.

But apparently trump's inauguration will 'be good for the economy'!

But no word on what that means. But Im sure involves some fist pumping and 'winning'


----------



## groovetube

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/voting-rights-battle/2021/03/02/3d213412-7af8-11eb-85cd-9b7fa90c8873_story.html





> Meanwhile, state lawmakers are barreling ahead with major rollbacks of early voting, mail voting and other state provisions that Trump and other Republicans oppose, while the Supreme Court on Tuesday heard a challenge to Arizona’s election laws that could further curtail the federal government’s power to police elections.


Because we all know what happens if more people vote. The republicans won't stand a chance.

But yeah just keep pushing bull**** voter fraud stuff because that scam is all they have to enact ridiculous and clearly anti-democratic voting laws.

Yeah tell us more about the buses of 'illegal immigrants' voting in multiple states. Except they don't exist...

People are soooo, incredible stupid.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

What amazes me among the Trump fans is the devotion to the cause and the utter denial that Trump actually lost the election. I don’t know what it will take for them to wake up, but it’s a little like Steve Jobs reality distortion field. Trump seems to have a similar kind of charisma and casts a similar kind of spell on his followers.


----------



## groovetube

remember when the maga types all bragged and taunted how 'Hilary supporters' were all sore losers?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA 

Sorry not sorry


----------



## eMacMan

polywog said:


> I get that. I was more curious about how the information flows. Is the IRS federal level and if so do the states necessarily know what the IRS do? And if the IRS is federal level, and they didn't decide to pursue charges (for something) does it mean the state cannot? I'm probably conflating Federal and Provincial government stuff.


Last time I filled out a FinCEN-114 generally referred to as the F(u)BAR. The privacy statement read something to the effect that the IRS (AKA the world's most feared terrorist organization), could share that info with the local department head of any federal agency which had an acronym. Also with state and even foreign police forces. 

We do know that IRS security is incredibly porous, hence the huge number of misdirected (stolen) refund checks.


----------



## wonderings

I don't get the Dr Seuss thing, seems to be barely a tradition. Obama did it, then Trump. I am pretty sure if Dr Seuss had any racist things in his books the whole cancel culture would be all over getting everything he ever did removed as he would obviously be a white nationalist who should have never been born. From what I read though it just seems Biden did not use a Dr Seuss book, nothing was banned.


----------



## polywog

There are two issues being conflated @wonderings :

The headline dealt with omitting Dr. Seuss from his official proclamation. A "tradition" introduced by Obama, and carried on by Trump, likely because he didn't realize Obama started it.

The other, are actually has bans on six Dr. Seuss books. The books are being banned... by Dr. Seuss Enterprises Dr. Seuss Enterprises bans six of its own books - Alpha News


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> There are two issues being conflated @wonderings :
> 
> The headline dealt with omitting Dr. Seuss from his official proclamation. A "tradition" introduced by Obama, and carried on by Trump, likely because he didn't realize Obama started it.
> 
> The other, are actually has bans on six Dr. Seuss books. The books are being banned... by Dr. Seuss Enterprises Dr. Seuss Enterprises bans six of its own books - Alpha News


But that doesn't make for a good enough headline though. "cancel culture!!!"

Im a little surprised macfury was so all over this so quickly, usually he's the first one to cry that someone didn't bother to read the details and word salad or whatever the canned stuff is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I don't get the Dr Seuss thing, seems to be barely a tradition. Obama did it, then Trump. I am pretty sure if Dr Seuss had any racist things in his books the whole cancel culture would be all over getting everything he ever did removed as he would obviously be a white nationalist who should have never been born. From what I read though it just seems Biden did not use a Dr Seuss book, nothing was banned.


Apparently it’s Dr. Seuss’s estate that decided to remove some of his books due to racist overtones (no really popular titles) so this one isn’t really about cancel culture.


----------



## groovetube

Well shyte then. They're all a bunch of America hatin' communist gang banger lovers then.

Have I changed any minds yet?


----------



## groovetube

This daily show video on Instagram nails it pretty good. Cancel culture! Waaaahhhhhh!









The Daily Show on Instagram: "“Waste of time” vs. “worth my time”"


The Daily Show shared a post on Instagram: "“Waste of time” vs. “worth my time”". Follow their account to see 7915 posts.




www.instagram.com


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> But yeah just keep pushing bull**** voter fraud stuff because that scam is all they have to enact ridiculous and clearly anti-democratic voting laws.
> 
> People are soooo, incredible stupid.


----------



## groovetube

Awwww someone’s not happy.

ha ha ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

It's still about cancel culture. It's just that his estate is doing the cancelling. I get why some people would find some of the images offensive, but i would be more inclined to alter the books instead of deleting them.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently it’s Dr. Seuss’s estate that decided to remove some of his books...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's still about cancel culture. It's just that his estate is doing the cancelling. I get why some people would find some of the images offensive, but i would be more inclined to alter the books instead of deleting them.


Why bother? They weren’t his bestselling books anyway. I think an author (or his foundation) have the right to stop publishing certain titles if they want to. Of course, the end result is these books are going to go through the roof price wise because they’ll be out of circulation. Definitely not cancel culture this time around. The author is still doing well.


----------



## Macfury

I agree they have the right to stop selling them. But I think you make a good point. True cancel culture would have seen all of his books "de-published."

The prices ARE already going through the roof and they will be distributed for free electronically when the publisher declines to sell them, simply because they are no longer exercising their copyright by publishing them every so often.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why bother? They weren’t his bestselling books anyway. I think an author (or his foundation) have the right to stop publishing certain titles if they want to. Of course, the end result is these books are going to go through the roof price wise because they’ll be out of circulation. Definitely not cancel culture this time around. The author is still doing well.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> It's still about cancel culture. It's just that his estate is doing the cancelling. I get why some people would find some of the images offensive, but i would be more inclined to alter the books instead of deleting them.


These days, everyone can find a reason to be offended; they're actively looking for reasons. Seems to me the solution is for them to simply not read the book. But that would require personal responsibility which seems to be something else that's gone out the window.

This is worse than List of most commonly challenged books in the United States in my opinion.


----------



## groovetube

It would seem to me, that the family/foundation themselves took personal responsibility and decided to stop publishing a few titles. It’s the others who are screaming ‘cancel culture!’ and turning this into a cause du jour, jumping on soapboxes to preach and putting it as top news!!! who seem to be the most ‘offended’ by this.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> It would seem to me, that the family/foundation themselves took personal responsibility and decided to stop publishing a few titles. It’s the others who are screaming ‘cancel culture!’ and turning this into a cause du jour and jumping on soapboxes to preach and putting it as top news!!! who seem to be the most ‘offended’ by this.


There is a lot of pressure these days and the voices are loud and intolerant to anything they disagree with. I looked up what was offensive and it seems from what I saw that it was illustrations of an Asian man and some Inuit. 








Here are the 'wrong' illustrations that got six Dr. Seuss books cancelled


Two of the six permanently pulled from publication currently rank as the world's best-selling children's books




nationalpost.com





I do believe this is an over reaction and a result of this world we now live in where everything comes down to racism. I read on CNN about a Dutch woman who was supposed to translate Amanda Gormans poetry from the Biden inauguration but again an uproar happened, she is white, why was not a black woman hired to do this? Oh the horror of it all! Yet the little piece that seems to be missing is Amanda Gorman chose this person to translate because she was also a young poet. But the loud voices in social media had that changed, it was not good enough and thus this person stepped down. This is the scary world we live in, so many self righteous people and it is not coming from the religious anymore.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> It would seem to me, that the family/foundation themselves took personal responsibility and decided to stop publishing a few titles. It’s the others who are screaming ‘cancel culture!’ and turning this into a cause du jour, jumping on soapboxes to preach and putting it as top news!!! who seem to be the most ‘offended’ by this.


Personal responsibility for _what???_ That someone might at some point get offended? There is an actual cancel culture out there, regardless how overblown or misattributed it can be. I feel the foundation acted proactively because it was likely a matter of time they became the "cause du jour."


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> Personal responsibility for _what???_ That someone might at some point get offended? There is an actual cancel culture out there, regardless how overblown or misattributed it can be. I feel the foundation acted proactively because it was likely a matter of time they became the "cause du jour."


Do you think the foundation has the right to stop publishing some of its titles if it thinks it’s the right thing to do? What if some of the titles are just not really big sellers? Does it have the right to stop publishing them then? Green Eggs and Ham is safe.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think the foundation has the right to stop publishing some of its titles if it thinks it’s the right thing to do? What if some of the titles are just not really big sellers? Does it have the right to stop publishing them then? Green Eggs and Ham is safe.


I think the reality is they are not just stop publishing due to poor sales. We are in a culture where everything is looked at through a lease of racism. Even Abraham Lincoln is in trouble these days. Dr Seusses foundation, or whoever owns the rights has said they pulled it because of some of the images. Unless there are more images then what I saw in the link I posted above I do not see any issue and it seems like a reaction of fear to the loud twitter voices.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I think the reality is they are not just stop publishing due to poor sales. We are in a culture where everything is looked at through a lease of racism. Even Abraham Lincoln is in trouble these days. Dr Seusses foundation, or whoever owns the rights has said they pulled it because of some of the images. Unless there are more images then what I saw in the link I posted above I do not see any issue and it seems like a reaction of fear to the loud twitter voices.


They may have done so out of fear for the broader catalogue. But even if they have the right to remove their own books from the publication stream, I find many people involved in these organizations to be cowardly, self-serving and given to short-term thinking. I doubt Theodore Geisel would have supported their thinking. It's a good thing books by Charles Dickens, Mark Twain and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle are in the public domain already.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> These days, everyone can find a reason to be offended; they're actively looking for reasons.


Not only are they actively looking for reasons, they're being encouraged to look for reasons — and then there are the cheerleaders who congratulate themselves for agreeing with the whole process: "It's just a book! It's just a movie! It's just an idea! Why I've lived my entire life without ideas and look how happy I am! Why are you people making such a fuss?"


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Personal responsibility for _what???_ That someone might at some point get offended? There is an actual cancel culture out there, regardless how overblown or misattributed it can be. I feel the foundation acted proactively because it was likely a matter of time they became the "cause du jour."


Oh come on now. Surely the concept of taking personal responsibility and removing your own work isn't that outlandish? Or have we now reached the point where 'personal responsibility' now includes becoming offended if someone does this? Because thats pretty much what has happened here.

The writers own family/foundation decided to stop publishing a few lesser know titles because of what they believed and they acted on it. And the right has now, in their most pathetic attempt yet to try and wring as much (_cough_ donations) political/clickbait bounties out of this as possible, turned this into a laughable circus. I wonder when the "FREEDUMB" of speech barrels will come rolling out. Oh wait...

Come on people, is it not blatantly obvious? Are there THAT many people so completely brainwashed to think anything that farts like "cancel culture" you all collectively lose your minds? Yeah I know. You keep saying it's the left. And granted there's many examples of the left indeed losing their minds! But did any you righties (not making assumptions on people here just sayin) ever, ever stop to consider the entertaining irony here?

No?

What's the point of conversation if everyone pretends the elephant isn't there?


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> They may have done so out of fear for the broader catalogue. But even if they have the right to remove their own books from the publication stream, I find many people involved in these organizations to be cowardly, self-serving and given to short-term thinking. I doubt Theodore Geisel would have supported their thinking. It's a good thing books by Charles Dickens, Mark Twain and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle are in the public domain already.


Oh Macfury, you of great learned 'mind changing' pearls of wisdom. Just look at what you wrote. 'they may have done so out of fear', 'I find many people involved in these organizations to be cowardly, self-serving and given to short-term thinking', etc etc, just dripping in a deep seated fear, or anger, or something. Because in all fairness here, what the bloody hell would you know, if anything, about this family or any other oganizations in general, to make sweeping statements like that.

Nothing I bet. Oh but you have the 'truth that no one wants you to hear' probably...

I hear tomorrow's the big day! Or maybe in 2 weeks?


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think the foundation has the right to stop publishing some of its titles if it thinks it’s the right thing to do? What if some of the titles are just not really big sellers? Does it have the right to stop publishing them then? Green Eggs and Ham is safe.


I'm not questioning their right to do so, just their reasoning.

Sales or otherwise, this is a horrible precedent. What happens when the pitchfork mob get bored and turn their gaze towards something that is popular? I'm sure someone could find reason to be offended at The Lord of the Rings. I mean dwarves are short. And it's already a no-no word isn't it?

How about all the books that people already find offensive? Do we stop publishing them, too?


----------



## groovetube

What "pitchfork mobs" are you talking about here? I wasn't aware this was a thing here.

Things are REALLY getting conflated here.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> Come on people, is it not blatantly obvious? Are there THAT many people so completely brainwashed to think anything that farts like "cancel culture" you all collectively lose your minds? Yeah I know. You keep saying it's the left. And granted there's many examples of the left indeed losing their minds! But did any you righties (not making assumptions on people here just sayin) ever, ever stop to consider the entertaining irony here?


Are people that disagree with you automatically politically motivated?? I know it makes it easier if you make everything a partisan issue, but not everyone that disagrees with this is "right." Or "left." Or "brainwashed."



groovetube said:


> What's the point of conversation if everyone pretends the elephant isn't there?


What's the point if it just turns to mudslinging, even when it's amusingly off target?


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> What "pitchfork mobs" are you talking about here? I wasn't aware this was a thing here.


Who said anything about here?? If you're looking for one of many examples, you just needed to scroll up a little.



wonderings said:


> I do believe this is an over reaction and a result of this world we now live in where everything comes down to racism. I read on CNN about a Dutch woman who was supposed to translate Amanda Gormans poetry from the Biden inauguration but again an uproar happened, she is white, why was not a black woman hired to do this? Oh the horror of it all! Yet the little piece that seems to be missing is Amanda Gorman chose this person to translate because she was also a young poet. But the loud voices in social media had that changed, it was not good enough and thus this person stepped down. This is the scary world we live in, so many self righteous people and it is not coming from the religious anymore.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Are people that disagree with you automatically politically motivated?? I know it makes it easier if you make everything a partisan issue, but not everyone that disagrees with this is "right." Or "left." Or "brainwashed."
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point if it just turns to mudslinging, even when it's amusingly off target?


I made what I thought was a good response to your point, and that's what you got from my post????



> But did any you righties (*not making assumptions on people here just sayin*)


 bold mine.

I thought this would have cleared it up but no? I called out both right, and left on this? Are you seeing a pattern? 

But the rest of my post, the actual topic...


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Who said anything about here?? If you're looking for one of many examples, you just needed to scroll up a little.


I think you're misunderstanding what Im pointing out here. In this case, the dr suess stuff. Why are we talking about pitchfork mobs? How is this "cancel culture"? all of this that I have seen in various posters (including your) posts.

I was the one, who originally posted the hilarity of fox making such a massive deal on this. And now we're talking about pitchfork mobs? 

This is why both sides of the aisles here get away with useless outrage crap.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> But the rest of my post, the actual topic...


Sure...



groovetube said:


> Oh come on now. Surely the concept of taking personal responsibility and removing your own work isn't that outlandish? Or have we now reached the point where 'personal responsibility' now includes becoming offended if someone does this? Because thats pretty much what has happened here.


You were, in theory, responding to "Personal responsibility for _what???_ That someone might at some point get offended?" We already established they removed their own work. What are they taking _personal_ responsibility for? 



groovetube said:


> The writers own family/foundation decided to stop publishing a few lesser know titles because of what they believed and they acted on it. And the right has now, in their most pathetic attempt yet to try and wring as much (_cough_ donations) political/clickbait bounties out of this as possible, turned this into a laughable circus. I wonder when the "FREEDUMB" of speech barrels will come rolling out. Oh wait...


It is an important point so it bears repeating. But yes, we already established that. You were, in theory responding to "Personal responsibility for _what???_ That someone might at some point get offended?" What are they taking personal responsibility for? What do they believe?


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> I think you're misunderstanding what Im pointing out here. In this case, the dr suess stuff. Why are we talking about pitchfork mobs? How is this "cancel culture"? all of this that I have seen in various posters (including your) posts.


Or, more likely we're misunderstanding each other.

Be that as it may. What I was alluding to was their motivation for their decision could be an attempt to get ahead of "cancel culture."


----------



## groovetube

Holy sh!tballs. Ok. I'll go back to my original post where I thought I explained. Perhaps it wasn't clear. 

But if I made a book, that had depictions in it, that -I- felt uncomfortable with because -I- saw it as very likely a racist depiction, and then -I- decided (in this particular case it was the family/foundation of said writer) to simply stop publishing a few of my books, that is my own personal feelings, beliefs, actions. Responsibility, since I felt I should take action on something I believed to be wrong.

It's unimaginable that this cannot be understood. I then expressed bewilderment that we have now come to a place, where when and if someone does this, it becomes a circus of conflations, all the ones I mentioned, but this very simple point of personal responsibility never seems to dawn. 

I cannot be clearer. If you disagree that such personal responsibility and personal actions could actually exist, Im not sure what to say beyond this.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Or, more likely we're misunderstanding each other.
> 
> Be that as it may. What I was alluding to was their motivation for their decision could be an attempt to get ahead of "cancel culture."


It could very well be. But my point is, it was still their decision. Macfury's assertions that this is, or may be the case is just useless speculation. It assumes that there is indeed 'pitchfork mobs' terrorizing the country as Fox News would have you believe. Granted there's a lot of hot air being tossed back and forth. But most of that is politically designed to smoke out the real issues of blatant racism.

Let's remember, that the groups that have been hammering about how violent BLM protests have been (and there certainly has been violence...) is the same group that thinks it was ok to violently overtake a branch of the US government because you believe a pile of conspiracy theories. But then blame it on non-existent 'agitators'.


----------



## Macfury

Pitchfork mobs on FOX News? It's a figure of speech, not a news item. What are you smoking so early in the morning?



groovetube said:


> It could very well be. But my point is, it was still their decision. Macfury's assertions that this is, or may be the case is just useless speculation. It assumes that there is indeed 'pitchfork mobs' terrorizing the country as Fox News would have you believe.


Your assertion that this is or may be the case is just useless speculation.



groovetube said:


> But most of that is politically designed to smoke out the real issues of blatant racism.


----------



## Macfury

You use "personal responsibility" as an argument only when it suits you. In the larger scope of posts in which you support collectivism and statism, it's not a very strong argument coming from you.



groovetube said:


> Holy sh!tballs. Ok. I'll go back to my original post where I thought I explained. Perhaps it wasn't clear.
> 
> But if I made a book, that had depictions in it, that -I- felt uncomfortable with because -I- saw it as very likely a racist depiction, and then -I- decided (in this particular case it was the family/foundation of said writer) to simply stop publishing a few of my books, that is my own personal feelings, beliefs, actions. Responsibility, since I felt I should take action on something I believed to be wrong.
> 
> It's unimaginable that this cannot be understood. I then expressed bewilderment that we have now come to a place, where when and if someone does this, it becomes a circus of conflations, all the ones I mentioned, but this very simple point of personal responsibility never seems to dawn.
> 
> I cannot be clearer. If you disagree that such personal responsibility and personal actions could actually exist, Im not sure what to say beyond this.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Or, more likely we're misunderstanding each other.
> 
> Be that as it may. What I was alluding to was their motivation for their decision could be an attempt to get ahead of "cancel culture."


I suspect it was a pre-emptive effort to get ahead of cancelling Dr. Seuss.


----------



## Macfury

I'm glad you looked at what I wrote. You might learn something new!



groovetube said:


> Oh Macfury, you of great learned 'mind changing' pearls of wisdom. Just look at what you wrote. 'they may have done so out of fear', 'I find many people involved in these organizations to be cowardly, self-serving and given to short-term thinking', etc etc, just dripping in a deep seated fear, or anger, or something. Because in all fairness here, what the bloody hell would you know, if anything, about this family or any other oganizations in general, to make sweeping statements like that.
> 
> Nothing I bet. Oh but you have the 'truth that no one wants you to hear' probably...
> 
> I hear tomorrow's the big day! Or maybe in 2 weeks?


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> It assumes that there is indeed 'pitchfork mobs' terrorizing the country as Fox News would have you believe. Granted there's a lot of hot air being tossed back and forth. But most of that is politically designed to smoke out the real issues of blatant racism.


These are not the things I'm talking about. The pitchfork wielding I'm thinking of:

After opening an account on the social media platform Parler, Gina Carano's critics began urging her removal from _The Mandalorian_ cast
The quote from wonderings above
I'm sure you get the point, but if you need more example I'll gladly find some more.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I suspect it was a pre-emptive effort to get ahead of cancelling Dr. Seuss.


I think we understand each other on this topic.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Pitchfork mobs on FOX News? It's a figure of speech, not a news item. What are you smoking so early in the morning?


You need to keep up with the conversation here to comment. I was referring to another poster's words.


Macfury said:


> You use "personal responsibility" as an argument only when it suits you. In the larger scope of posts in which you support collectivism and statism, it's not a very strong argument coming from you.


Explain this further. If one were to support 'collectivism' as you assume I do, how does this negate my definition of personal responsibility which I clearly outlined above?

Failure to address this means, once again, you're making stuff up.



Macfury said:


> I'm glad you looked at what I wrote. You might learn something new!


You really don't bother to read anything or join a conversation do you. Would that freak you out if you did? I mean, all this crap barely has any relevancy to anything posted here, certainly none of my posts, it's as if you didn't even try.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> These are not the things I'm talking about. The pitchfork wielding I'm thinking of:
> 
> After opening an account on the social media platform Parler, Gina Carano's critics began urging her removal from _The Mandalorian_ cast
> The quote from wonderings above
> I'm sure you get the point, but if you need more example I'll gladly find some more.


Denial of companies involved in cannabis and firearms industries from receiving banking services. Having Amazon kick Parler off its servers on ideological grounds alone is another.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> These are not the things I'm talking about. The pitchfork wielding I'm thinking of:
> 
> After opening an account on the social media platform Parler, Gina Carano's critics began urging her removal from _The Mandalorian_ cast
> The quote from wonderings above
> I'm sure you get the point, but if you need more example I'll gladly find some more.


believe me, I know of lots of examples. I get it. Some of it valid, but both sides can point the obvious stuff we find ridiculous, and does so with gusto!


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Denial of companies involved in cannabis and firearms industries from receiving banking services. Having Amazon kick Parler off its servers on ideological grounds alone is another.


So, just to be clear here, you do not support companies in the private sector making business decisions as to who to allow on their services including, if their own legal teams advise they may be in legal jeopardy in providing some clients their services? I'm of course assuming you have irrefutable proof that Amazon kicked parlour off their services "on ideological grounds alone" right?


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> I think we understand each other on this topic.


See this, is what I'm pointing out. Statements made, without even the slightest attempt at showing anything that would suggest this, other than a personal hunch.

If that's what it is, that's fine. But let's not pretend it's anything but at this point. Unless there's some real evidence I haven't seen of this. If so, I'd like macfury to provide it.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Having Amazon kick Parler off its servers on ideological grounds alone is another.


Taken down by the law of unintended consequences


----------



## groovetube

Well. I'll leave you guys to making speculative unsupported statements on this. But for the purposes of debating it, it's useless, it provides nothing but empty calories really. I gave macfury a hard time because he has a 15 year history of taking lots of good members to task over 'being lazy', providing 'word salad', and all kinds of complaints that he feels the discussion isn't quality enough for him. But then he provides pretty much speculative nothing burgers himself. If you were so concerned about 'strong arguments' macfury then start with providing just one yourself! 

I supposed one can waste one's time chewing the fat and that sort of thing over it. To that, I say well have at'er.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> See this, is what I'm pointing out. Statements made, without even the slightest attempt at showing anything that would suggest this, _other than a personal hunch._


Do I need to use stronger language than _I think, I feel,I suspect, could and might when I say I suspect something?_

Is there some sort of BBCode I could wrap statements in to make the intent clear?

How about I clarify: Macfury, it appears that you understand the point I was alluded to, and I too understand the point you were trying to make. As opposed to groovetube. I have mentioned that these are suspicions and feelings, but for the sake of absolute clarity, it's a personal hunch. I also suspect that the point you were trying to make was not a statement of fact, but rather also a personal hunch.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Taken down by the law of unintended consequences


I think it's the hypocrisy behind those decisions that's the most telling. Parler is no different from Twitter in the type of content it hosts--it's just content of a different political flavour.


----------



## groovetube

A personal hunch. That’s fine, but in the context of a political debate, useless.

and macfury, why are you hiding under polywogs skirt to make a few more unsubstantiated statements rather lay out your proof of any of it?

I know. It’s the playbook you’ve pulled here for years.

Let’s shortcircuit this whole thing and save 2 useless pages, here’s how this ends, you’ll pull this until me or (insert many other members here) finally just throw up our hands and disengage, and then you dance around like you won.

And people wonder why this place is a ghost town


----------



## groovetube

Let me finish this up by saying, I guess I had thought, that perhaps this thread was more about political debate rather than the type of shenanigans that used to happen here. It was asserted many times that if I, 'groovetube'; were to leave, that 'normal discussion would resume here, well 7 years during my absence, I only saw things get far worse, to the point there was almost no one here, beyond some occasional burps and farts and bellows of name calling etc that not only continued but intensified. Because why not when you've convinced the owners moderators weren't needed!

And it's the same playbook as before. Polywog I don't know you or don't recall having much in the way of interaction, or how long you were here in the early 2000s. Macfury, I would have thought you would have progressed from this childish stuff but you just just keep pulling the very same lines. It's kind of sad really.

And you can have it! This place probably has seen more action lately than in a while, but there's macfury, making sure to play his games, again, and again.

I'll just say what just about all the other members of the past have said, and I said 7 years ago. This, is a waste of time.

Wring as much outrage and howling as you will out of that macfury! Don't disappoint!


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> And it's the same playbook as before. Polywog I don't know you or don't recall having much in the way of interaction, or how long you were here in the early 2000s.


I'm sure you were attempting to make some kind of point there, but I'm touched that you noticed me. Adieu!


----------



## Macfury

I can see how frustrating you find this groovetube. But nobody is asking you to either stay or go. You need to do what's best for yourself.



groovetube said:


> Let me finish this up by saying, I guess I had thought, that perhaps this thread was more about political debate rather than the type of shenanigans that used to happen here. It was asserted many times that if I, 'groovetube'; were to leave, that 'normal discussion would resume here, well 7 years during my absence, I only saw things get far worse, to the point there was almost no one here, beyond some occasional burps and farts and bellows of name calling etc that not only continued but intensified. Because why not when you've convinced the owners moderators weren't needed!
> 
> And it's the same playbook as before. Polywog I don't know you or don't recall having much in the way of interaction, or how long you were here in the early 2000s. Macfury, I would have thought you would have progressed from this childish stuff but you just just keep pulling the very same lines. It's kind of sad really.
> 
> And you can have it! This place probably has seen more action lately than in a while, but there's macfury, making sure to play his games, again, and again.
> 
> I'll just say what just about all the other members of the past have said, and I said 7 years ago. This, is a waste of time.
> 
> Wring as much outrage and howling as you will out of that macfury! Don't disappoint!


----------



## Macfury

It may be a ghost town, but at least it hasn't been nuked from the face of the earth like MacDiscussions and MacMagic — those forums where all the good people who left EhMac because of me went to create moderated discussion forum utopias!



groovetube said:


> And people wonder why this place is a ghost town


----------



## groovetube

you can set your watch to it. How did I know you would taunt about macdiscussions or macmagic? Because that's all you fall to when I call you out on your childish antics.

It hasn't been nuked here macfury, because whomever it is that owns it, sees a monetary value in search clicks and ad revenue (a decent guess...), not because of the value of your antics. I hope this isn't too harsh. As far as the people who used to be here, well, many I know in real life, and most, just moved on. Im connected to quite a few on social media, and we keep up that way. Though even Facebook has become 'outrageBook' these days. No one was interested (including me) in running any forums as it takes more work than you probably know. So sure! Mock away. It's all you got!

I enjoy the Shang, I know you see it as some kind of 'moderated utopia', I see it as grown up adults who enjoy good conversation. It's too bad this thread couldn't go there. I get some ribbing, and etc., because it -is- politics after all, Im guilty of that as much as the next guy. But for you, it's different. And good on you for it!

You keep changin' those minds!


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> I'm sure you were attempting to make some kind of point there, but I'm touched that you noticed me. Adieu!


The point was, I don't really know you, so I do not include you in my calling out macfury on his childish antics. I was just clarifying this.

As I don't really know you, either you're making something out of nothing to look for an insult in my post, or, I wasn't clear enough. I'll assume the latter. I'll just chalk it up to, misunderstanding as it happens in a text based forum.


----------



## Macfury

groovetube said:


> How did I know you would taunt about macdiscussions or macmagic? .


Because you're fully aware that they represent the epitome of the failure that you want to bring to EhMac.



groovetube said:


> As far as the people who used to be here, well, many I know in real life, and most, just moved on. Im connected to quite a few on social media, and we keep up that way.


Great! But then why did you come back here?



groovetube said:


> I enjoy the Shang, I know you see it as some kind of 'moderated utopia', I see it as grown up adults who enjoy good conversation. It's too bad this thread couldn't go there. I get some ribbing, and etc., because it -is- politics after all, Im guilty of that as much as the next guy. But for you, it's different. And good on you for it!


I think the Shang is the best place for you on EhMac!


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Because you're fully aware that they represent the epitome of the failure that you want to bring to EhMac.


You do realize how delusional this is right? I mean, look around, do you see success? I see a few old trolls still stinking the place up with your childish crap, and a few stragglers that mostly try to ignore you. Unless the bar of excellence for you is "not nuked! (yet)" LOL.

Splendid work my friend! Keep changing those minds!


----------



## Macfury

Did you come here of your own free will only to spend time with "stinking old trolls"? I'd be reluctant to share that publicly, but I admire your honesty.



groovetube said:


> You do realize how delusional this is right? I mean, look around, do you see success? I see a few old trolls still stinking the place up with your childish crap, and a few stragglers that mostly try to ignore you.


----------



## groovetube

I enjoyed the laugh. Because remember, discussion here would return to normal if only groovetube would leave right? 

So am I guilty of rubbing your nose it?

Abso-freaking-lutely ha ha ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

I guess this meant more to you than me. Doesn't ring a bell.



groovetube said:


> Because remember, discussion here would return to normal if only groovetube would leave right?


----------



## groovetube

Still the childish little taunts. Right to the end, as it always was, and is, with whomever you set your sights on next. If not me, someone else will do. I saw you and your pals little 'it's all groovetube's fault!' thread pop up down in the 'recommended reading' a little while ago, and let me tell you, that was entertaining to say the least.

Slim pickins these days eh macfury?

Well since this is about as numbskull an interaction as it can possibly get, I say, you win Macfury!


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I'm not questioning their right to do so, just their reasoning


Looks like they did not make the decision organically. A group called Learning for Justice was the impetus:

*








6 Dr. Seuss Books Recalled for ‘Racism’ on the Anniversary of His Life | Human Events


Six Dr. Seuss books are being canceled over alleged “racial undertones” and insensitive imagery, according to a leftist educational group in Virginia called Learning for Justice.




humanevents.com




*


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So yeah, it’s March 4 and I’m not seeing Trump reinstated as president yet.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> So yeah, it’s March 4 and I’m not seeing Trump reinstated as president yet.


Shhhh. They’re outraged right now by the dr. Suess thing.

ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

So yeah, I guess you are the only one here looking out for it...



Freddie_Biff said:


> So yeah, it’s March 4 and I’m not seeing Trump reinstated as president yet.


----------



## groovetube

Yeah because we all know, and everyone agrees with me, that if macfury isn’t looking at it, no one else is.


----------



## Macfury

I'll give in... apparently groovetube was also looking out for Trump to return on March 4.



groovetube said:


> Yeah because we all know, and everyone agrees with me, that if macfury isn’t looking at it, no one else is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I'll give in... apparently groovetube was also looking out for Trump to return on March 4.


No, but your QAnon brothers and sisters were. And the Three Percenters. And the Oath Keepers. And the Proud Boys. And......


----------



## groovetube

He was too busy crying about the dr suess books that no one really cared much about until someone yelled “CANCEL CULTURE!!!” WAAHHH!!! Then he posts one of the laziest googled searched article imaginable that clearly he didn’t bother to read.

It doesn’t take very much to distract them without so much as a shred of anything substantive. So long as they -think- something is true, well by golly it must be! I bet Fox News got a lot clicks on that and are busy countin their money! Apparently the foundation quietly decided not to publish these titles like a year ago, and I guess maybe someone at Fox News was thinking gee we’re having a slow day and we need something to outrage people with...

thars money in them thar hills I tell ya!


----------



## groovetube

Here’s a sane article that likely no one will read because, well, the threat of pitchfork mobs and cancel culture is far too tantalizing. (And the right wing ‘news’ sites and blogs know it...) 

what makes laugh even harder is thinking if the times the right taunts the left on how the left ‘loses it minds’ over (insert whatever).

you just kinda stand back and marvel at the level of stupidity in this world.









Dr. Seuss did not get canceled. But if you think he did, you have a bigger problem. | Opinion


So much that’s alleged about what’s been “canceled” or “banned” is either heavily exaggerated or outright untrue.




www.inquirer.com





Go ahead whine about ‘leftist rags’ and clutch your bottle of aunt Jemima syrup (that no self respecting Canadian would have!!) because the facts takes the piss out of the faux right outrage.


----------



## Macfury

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I count on you as the authoritative news source on these matters at EhMac.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, but your QAnon brothers and sisters were. And the Three Percenters. And the Oath Keepers. And the Proud Boys. And......


----------



## Macfury

Thanks for locating all of "the facts" in an opinion column. Guess we should all go home now.



groovetube said:


> Here’s a sane article that likely no one will read because, well, the threat of pitchfork mobs and cancel culture is far too tantalizing. (And the right wing ‘news’ sites and blogs know it...)
> 
> what makes laugh even harder is thinking if the times the right taunts the left on how the left ‘loses it minds’ over (insert whatever).
> 
> you just kinda stand back and marvel at the level of stupidity in this world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Seuss did not get canceled. But if you think he did, you have a bigger problem. | Opinion
> 
> 
> So much that’s alleged about what’s been “canceled” or “banned” is either heavily exaggerated or outright untrue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.inquirer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead whine about ‘leftist rags’ and clutch your bottle of aunt Jemima syrup (that no self respecting Canadian would have!!) because the facts takes the piss out of the faux right outrage.


----------



## groovetube

Says the guy that posted the pants peeing freak out link filled with, I’d like to say confations but it was just outright lies.

try again pal.

what really is sad about this whole flip out thing by the right over this latest victim outrage stunt Fox News etc is pulling...when things do go too far, it gets lost in the ear splitting screams of cancel culture. Try focusing perhaps a little more on something substantive. They happen! I realize that im likely pissing in the wind here, but it’s worth a shot I suppose.


----------



## Macfury

Hey, when you've found the truth, I say go with it... job well done!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about, but I count on you as the authoritative news source on these matters at EhMac.


How can you claim to be up on all of the news in American politics and not be aware of these far right groups? They’re the ones who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6, you know. Time to start paying attention.


----------



## polywog

I don't know how we went from "A personal hunch. That’s fine, but in the context of a political debate, useless." to opinion pieces.

I don't care either way, just holding you to the same high standards you expect of others in the American Political Thread.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> I don't know how we went from "A personal hunch. That’s fine, but in the context of a political debate, useless." to opinion pieces.
> 
> I don't care either way, just holding you to the same high standards you expect of others in the American Political Thread.


Sure! I welcome that! However, how are you doing so in this instance? I’m not offering a hunch. I’ve pointed out what the facts we know are. The rest, is ‘hunch’, opinion, predictions etc. I’m not going to say don’t say them, political chat is full of them. The trouble starts when people try to present these hunches as fact, which is a tactic macfury has employed for years. It works for him because he knows it’ll wind someone up and then he’ll whine that he never did so.

And on it goes.

Now he’s pretending to not know about the huge Qanon thing and the significance of March 4th. Which unsurprisingly is the same thing his political hero’s say as well. Why? Because he has this inherent need, to wind people up. But I do find it facinating that those who are such loyal supporters of trump are also, so obviously uncomfortable with the Qanon thing and the violence on the Capitol.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> Sure! I welcome that! However, how are you doing so in this instance? I’m not offering a hunch. I’ve pointed out what the facts we know are. The rest, is ‘hunch’, opinion, predictions etc. I’m not going to say don’t say them, political chat is full of them. The trouble starts when people try to present these hunches as fact, which is a tactic macfury has employed for years. It works for him because he knows it’ll wind someone up and then he’ll whine that he never did so.


In this particular case, the scant facts the article does provide, have already been established. No one is saying The Seuss Foundation didn't ultimately make the decision regarding publication. What remains is someone's opinion on the motivation behind those facts which you proffered and endorsed as a "sane article." You called _me_ out for providing hunches as facts, though I pointed out that I didn't suggest they were and was quite deliberate to use language showing they were opinions.


----------



## groovetube

Come on polywog. The difference between the article that macfury posted, and the one I did... makes my article I linked to look sane. Did you see the pile of **** article macfury posted? I doubt even he read it. given his history of taking others to task over blanket sensationalist crap media stuff I found it hilarious he attempted to pass that one off.

The article I posted essentially points out as you said, the obvious facts we know, and that much of the news media crap is nothing but lies and sensationalism with nothing really substantive. That’s why I posted it.

just a bunch of hot air until someone has something real that we should be concerned about. But I’m sure it got Fox News some much needed revenue.

lone thing that is interesting, is much of the conversation seems to be centered around a lot of people scared of ‘cancel culture’, but very little is said in regards to the images in question and if they are racist. I saw them and in my opinion they absolutely are. I’m a white guy. Ancedotely, my wife is part black, and Asian. She quickly said yeah, of course these are racist. We seem more concerned about hanging on to these than what if anything they really mean to others. Perhaps that’s where the conversation should really be?


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> Come on polywog. The difference between the article that macfury posted, and the one I did... makes my article I linked to look sane. Did you see the pile of **** article macfury posted? I doubt even he read it. given his history of taking others to task over blanket sensationalist crap media stuff I found it hilarious he attempted to pass that one off.
> 
> The article I posted essentially points out as you said, the obvious facts we know, and that much of the news media crap is nothing but lies and sensationalism with nothing really substantive. That’s why I posted it.


Why do you keep bringing Macfury, and what he may or may not have posted, into it? I made no mention of him, QAnon, arbitrary days in march or anything else. Waddabout isn't going to cut it; you're the one who was gatekeeping me. I'm holding you to your standard. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Why do you keep bringing Macfury, and what he may or may not have posted, into it? I made no mention of him, QAnon, arbitrary days in march or anything else. Waddabout isn't going to cut it; you're the one who was gatekeeping me. I'm holding you to your standard. Nothing more, nothing less.


Is this some kind of game too? Because I refer to both of you as clearly you're in agreement with him here, and why are YOU bringing up Qanon? My comments in regards to Qanon are with macfury. Though macfury LOVES to muddy everything after he sprays a bunch of sweeping statements and he gets questioned on it. He has no intention of answering anything, so you can always expect things to go in many different directions around him.

Please keep this straight. I have maintained from the start that neither of you have a shred of anything to base your suspicions on. Nothing. Macfury gave you, an article that was just pure right wing bull. I haven't seen anything from you on this further, and that's about the extent of anything Ive gotten.

You are free to voice your suspicions, but incredibly, I am also free to voice my skepticism as well!


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> Is this some kind of game too? Because I refer to both of you as clearly you're in agreement with him here, and why are YOU bringing up Qanon? _My comments in regards to Qanon are with macfury._


Good grief. This is your first reply TO ME, not Macfury.



groovetube said:


> Sure! I welcome that! However, how are you doing so in this instance? I’m not offering a hunch. I’ve pointed out what the facts we know are. The rest, is ‘hunch’, opinion, predictions etc. I’m not going to say don’t say them, political chat is full of them. *The trouble starts when people try to present these hunches as fact, which is a tactic macfury has employed for years. It works for him because he knows it’ll wind someone up and then he’ll whine that he never did so.
> 
> And on it goes.
> 
> Now he’s pretending to not know about the huge Qanon thing and the significance of March 4th. Which unsurprisingly is the same thing his political hero’s say as well. Why? Because he has this inherent need, to wind people up. But I do find it facinating that those who are such loyal supporters of trump are also, so obviously uncomfortable with the Qanon thing and the violence on the Capitol.*


Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I challenged you on.

To recap:
You said : "A personal hunch. That’s fine, but in the context of a political debate, useless."
I said: "I don't know how we went from "A personal hunch. That’s fine, but in the context of a political debate, useless." to opinion pieces."

And yet here you are, once again, bringing Macfury into it, just like every single reply you've made to me today.


----------



## groovetube

Because I'm talking to BOTH OF YOU! Because apparently you both are expressing the same position?? Good god how is this not clear??? Is there a forum rule that says that in your replies do NOT refer to two members in one post??? What?

I cant make sense of the rest of your post. You posted a hunch, I questioned it.

Simple. Dont overthink this. Leave that to macfury.

I think for clarity sake, I will separate you two. I'll address you directly and leave the troll out of it. Perhaps that will help.


----------



## groovetube

So while there were a bunch of useless posts going around in circles, which seems to be the ehmac way for some strange reason, perhaps a real recap here.

so a few members feel there was something untoward, something nefarious going on that made the dr suess foundation stop publishing 6 titles.

ok. Prove it. Convince me there’s something more to this.


----------



## groovetube

Senate Is on Track for Stimulus Vote After Democrats Agree to Trim Jobless Aid (Published 2021)


Bowing to moderates who said the jobless aid was too generous, Democrats dropped their bid to raise a weekly federal unemployment benefit to $400 from $300.




www.nytimes.com





I find it just incredible, how it could be so hard to pass relief or stimulus for actual people, but when it comes to trillions for corporations because JOBS! the blank cheques are just flying out the door. Even with the democrats holding the house, it shows that the majority support, is still more for the rich than regular people. Despite both parties desperately telling voters that -they- are the party of the common person. To be fair, if it were a republican led admin/house, we wouldn't see anything much for regular people at all. But boy we'd see a whole lotta tax breaks and grants and free money for the rich!

I think that now that the White House is democrat, we'll now see the incredible return of the deficit pearl clutchers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yeah, it's kind of strange how Republicans have no problem bailing out corporations in times of trouble but they recoil at sending money to regular citizens. Too much like socialism I guess. And yet they endorse what can be described as corporate socialism. Something's off in that mindset.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, it's kind of strange how Republicans have no problem bailing out corporations in times of trouble but they recoil at sending money to regular citizens. Too much like socialism I guess. And yet they endorse what can be described as corporate socialism. Something's off in that mindset.


The lamest excuse I’ve heard would have to be ‘but it’s their money!’. Apparently that’s why we have to give huge tax breaks, and erases all criticisms of the often spiking deficits. Then, they’ll circle back to, “entitlements”.

Socialism, and communism are tossed around a lot, but often the ones tossing it, aren’t really aware of what it actually means. But I find their most common definition of socialism, is economic policy they disagree with.


----------



## Macfury

It would be great if you explained the difference right now so everyone can understand.



groovetube said:


> Socialism, and communism are tossed around a lot, but often the ones tossing it, aren’t really aware of what it actually means. But I find their most common definition of socialism, is economic policy they disagree with.


----------



## Macfury

This isn't nearly accurate. There's a large group of "uniparty" house and senate members who are all about funding corporations. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden all represent the same constituency. Donald Trump wanted less for corporations and government hacks, more for individuals.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, it's kind of strange how Republicans have no problem bailing out corporations in times of trouble but they recoil at sending money to regular citizens. Too much like socialism I guess. And yet they endorse what can be described as corporate socialism. Something's off in that mindset.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, it's kind of strange how Republicans have no problem bailing out corporations in times of trouble but they recoil at sending money to regular citizens. Too much like socialism I guess. And yet they endorse what can be described as corporate socialism. Something's off in that mindset.











To Juice the Economy, Biden Bets on the Poor (Published 2021)


Mr. Biden’s bottom-up $1.9 trillion aid package is a sharp reversal from the tax cut bill that was President Donald J. Trump’s first big legislative victory.




www.nytimes.com







> WASHINGTON — To jump-start the ailing economy, President Biden is turning to the lowest-paid workers in America, and to the people who are currently unable to work at all.
> 
> Mr. Biden’s $1.9 trillion economic relief package, which cleared the Senate on Saturday and could be headed for the president’s signature in a matter of days, would overwhelmingly help low earners and the middle class, with little direct aid for the high earners who have largely kept their jobs and padded their savings over the past year.
> 
> For the president, the plan is more than just a stimulus proposal. It is a declaration of his economic policy — one that captures the principle Democrats and liberal economists have espoused over the past decade: that the best way to stoke faster economic growth is from the bottom up.
> 
> Mr. Biden’s decision to take that approach in his first major economic legislation is in stark contrast to President Donald J. Trump, whose initial effort in Congress was a tax-cut package in 2017 that largely benefited corporations and wealthier Americans.


it’s a welcome change from not giving much of anything to regular Americans, while bragging that you are, to actually directing the money directly to them.


----------



## Macfury

I'v e never seen anyone pivot from excoriating a government platform to praising it at such speed. Flopping like a mackerel!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This isn't nearly accurate. There's a large group of "uniparty" house and senate members who are all about funding corporations. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden all represent the same constituency. Donald Trump wanted less for corporations and government hacks, more for individuals.


As long as the individual is himself you mean.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> To Juice the Economy, Biden Bets on the Poor (Published 2021)
> 
> 
> Mr. Biden’s bottom-up $1.9 trillion aid package is a sharp reversal from the tax cut bill that was President Donald J. Trump’s first big legislative victory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it’s a welcome change from not giving much of anything to regular Americans, while bragging that you are, to actually directing the money directly to them.


What’s amazing is that this $1400 would be only the SECOND payment to Americans since the pandemic began, and it’s been stalling for months. Meanwhile, Canada has been paying $2000 PER MONTH in CERB payments for the better part of a year. That’s socialism I guess.


----------



## Macfury

Would $4,000 per month be socialism?



Freddie_Biff said:


> What’s amazing is that this $1400 would be only the SECOND payment to Americans since the pandemic began, and it’s been stalling for months. Meanwhile, Canada has been paying $2000 PER MONTH in CERB payments for the better part of a year. That’s socialism I guess.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Would $4,000 per month be socialism?


You miss the point. Both Canada’s and America’s economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism. Always have been. That’s what taxes are for—a redistribution of some of our wealth to benefit everyone. The difference is to what extent. I think Canada finds a far better balance than the libertarians down south.


----------



## Macfury

So both U.S. and Canadian handouts are socialism. I agree.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> So both U.S. and Canadian handouts are socialism. I agree.


You mean you weren’t aware that both Canadian and American economies are at least partly socialist? Where did you think your taxes were going?


----------



## Macfury

Some people here say it isn't socialism. I was just getting a show of hands.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean you weren’t aware that both Canadian and American economies are at least partly socialist? Where did you think your taxes were going?


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean you weren’t aware that both Canadian and American economies are at least partly socialist? Where did you think your taxes were going?


Gosh you know, if only there was some kind of magical book, that defined things. Maybe even a system of tubes, all interconnected, that one could utilize to learn things. Ha ha.

But it's better to sit like a numptie asking passersby what it is. Because the answers will almost always, be accurate


----------



## Macfury

Next time I contemplate politely asking Freddie for his opinion on some matter, I'll remember that the "system of tubes, all interconnected" will provide me with his opinion directly, without needing to ask him.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Next time I contemplate politely asking Freddie for his opinion on some matter, I'll remember that the "system of tubes, all interconnected" will provide me with his opinion directly, without needing to ask him.


Especially if you’re not quite clear on what the term “socialism” means.


----------



## groovetube

It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Always has.

Really too bad.


----------



## Macfury

I can help you with that!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Especially if you’re not quite clear on what the term “socialism” means.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I can help you with that!


No, somehow I don’t think you can. Tell me mf, which of the things your taxes pay for do you think we should get rid of? Hospitals? Police officers? Teachers? Roads?


----------



## groovetube

He's not interested in discussing socialism. His interest is merely in goading. if it's not me, it's you, CM, or, well most of the other members have given up and left.

Then he complains about the lack of stimulating conversation 'worth his attention'.


----------



## groovetube

So the US has past a massive covid relief bill, though not with much support from the republicans, and certainly some more, I’d call them center but let’s face it they’re pretty much rhinos, conservatives... became sticks in the mud holding up the more progressive side of the democrats. I didn't provide a link, just choose whatever news source you want. I'll just give my personal opinion. I see this bill, as far more weighted to giving the people the money. But the excuses I hear are, that some people who don’t deserve it might get some money. Do we hear this with the trillions handed over to the rich business/corporations?? All we hear is some unsubstantiated horse**** about creating jobs.

Ive heard how the republicans, or, Trump specifically want to give money more directly to the people, rather than to rich corpo... wait a second they call it ‘establishment’, or ‘elite’ or something ‘cabal’, it’s difficult to keep up with whatever demon name they’ve generated...

But I’m not seeing it. I’ve seen the gorging of massive tax giveaways, in some cases there were huge layoffs right after (!!), but all I’ve seen are excuses. I don’t see the money going directly to the people. Somehow the big scam has become cloaked in ‘personal responsibility’, no hand outs, ‘entitlement’ cuts, the list is quite extensive. But none of these seem to apply to the rich elite of the country, does it. Cries of ‘it’s THEIR money’, ‘socialist’ (as we see unfolding right now right here), but at the end of the day, one can see where the wealth went, the political sway in ‘cutting red tape and regulations’, because jobs, when it’s really stock price. Because that’s often what it was really about for Trump wasn’t it. He always bragged about stock prices, because in his (and his rich pals) the stock market, was the indicator that the economy was roaring. And people bought it. No one really stopped to consider what the job creation numbers really were, because Trump etc all demonized those numbers, and even still, the promises of soaring GDP fell far short despite the sputtering posts showing well this quarter really rocked! But in the bigger picture, just how much of that wealth really went to the people while trump threw gasoline on an already well burning fire that was the economy that Obama left for him?

All I’ve seen really is some dodgy spin on some manufacturing jobs over here (oh wait that didn’t happen) some data that said wages went up (somehow we have to trust THOSE numbers right?) but at the end of the day, just how great, was Trump for the economy? Sounds like he was great for the stock market and his rich pals. Anyone notice how those great tax cuts for the rich corporations were permanent, but now I’m hearing from many they ended up owing the IRS more a year later because get this, regular folks tax cuts, many of them expired after a year.

you just can’t make this stuff up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

And the irony is it’s not even that much money. $1400 doesn’t go far these days, and the Republicans were hesitant to give away even THAT much. If that much of a handout puts the country in further debt by $1.9 trillion (I know there’s other costs too), the USA is in pretty rough shape. So much for Trump being good for the economy.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> And the irony is it’s not even that much money. $1400 doesn’t go far these days, and the Republicans were hesitant to give away even THAT much. If that much of a handout puts the country in further debt by $1.9 trillion (I know there’s other costs too), the USA is in pretty rough shape. So much for Trump being good for the economy.


These days, when I hear a republican whine about deficit spending, I just stand there and laugh. For obvious reasons. But you just know it's like catnip to these types.


----------



## Macfury

None of them. They just shouldn't be funded involuntarily.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, somehow I don’t think you can. Tell me mf, which of the things your taxes pay for do you think we should get rid of? Hospitals? Police officers? Teachers? Roads?


----------



## Macfury

Some good ideas in here, but I don't think most of your expression of "personal opinion" is supportable.



groovetube said:


> So the US has past a massive covid relief bill, though not with much support from the republicans, and certainly some more, I’d call them center but let’s face it they’re pretty much rhinos, conservatives... became sticks in the mud holding up the more progressive side of the democrats. I didn't provide a link, just choose whatever news source you want. I'll just give my personal opinion. I see this bill, as far more weighted to giving the people the money. But the excuses I hear are, that some people who don’t deserve it might get some money. Do we hear this with the trillions handed over to the rich business/corporations?? All we hear is some unsubstantiated horse**** about creating jobs.
> 
> Ive heard how the republicans, or, Trump specifically want to give money more directly to the people, rather than to rich corpo... wait a second they call it ‘establishment’, or ‘elite’ or something ‘cabal’, it’s difficult to keep up with whatever demon name they’ve generated...
> 
> But I’m not seeing it. I’ve seen the gorging of massive tax giveaways, in some cases there were huge layoffs right after (!!), but all I’ve seen are excuses. I don’t see the money going directly to the people. Somehow the big scam has become cloaked in ‘personal responsibility’, no hand outs, ‘entitlement’ cuts, the list is quite extensive. But none of these seem to apply to the rich elite of the country, does it. Cries of ‘it’s THEIR money’, ‘socialist’ (as we see unfolding right now right here), but at the end of the day, one can see where the wealth went, the political sway in ‘cutting red tape and regulations’, because jobs, when it’s really stock price. Because that’s often what it was really about for Trump wasn’t it. He always bragged about stock prices, because in his (and his rich pals) the stock market, was the indicator that the economy was roaring. And people bought it. No one really stopped to consider what the job creation numbers really were, because Trump etc all demonized those numbers, and even still, the promises of soaring GDP fell far short despite the sputtering posts showing well this quarter really rocked! But in the bigger picture, just how much of that wealth really went to the people while trump threw gasoline on an already well burning fire that was the economy that Obama left for him?
> 
> All I’ve seen really is some dodgy spin on some manufacturing jobs over here (oh wait that didn’t happen) some data that said wages went up (somehow we have to trust THOSE numbers right?) but at the end of the day, just how great, was Trump for the economy? Sounds like he was great for the stock market and his rich pals. Anyone notice how those great tax cuts for the rich corporations were permanent, but now I’m hearing from many they ended up owing the IRS more a year later because get this, regular folks tax cuts, many of them expired after a year.
> 
> you just can’t make this stuff up.


----------



## groovetube

So you declare my opinion as unsupportable, without anything more, and then offer a, at best vague opinion with even less than I gave.

I suppose that’s... progress.


----------



## Macfury

Not "unsupportable". They are "unsupported".



groovetube said:


> So you declare my opinion as unsupportable, without anything more, and then offer a, at best vague opinion with even less than I gave.


----------



## groovetube

Ok, well, while you concern yourself with these sorts of things, I think I’ll continue with the topic.


----------



## Macfury

I say go for it. You're on a roll!



groovetube said:


> Ok, well, while you concern yourself with these sorts of things, I think I’ll continue with the topic.


----------



## groovetube

I did already. You’ve given pretty much zero in response.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why this place is a ghost town.


----------



## Macfury

If we could be more like the places where "all the good people went" we'd be forced to chat on Facebook by now!



groovetube said:


> And this ladies and gentlemen, is why this place is a ghost town.


----------



## groovetube

Actually, many of us still chat together quite often, I spoke to at least 3 former members just today. Just not on a public forum where you can go sit and watch is all.

Sorry pal. But there you go. Look where my post on Trump allegedly being the one who sends more wealth the regular Americans than the democrats went.

macfury melting down because most decent members pretty much gave up trying to have a decent conversation here. This is a perfect example.


----------



## Macfury

You have to use alternative communication channels, because you collectively drove MacDiscussions and MacMagic into the ground years ago. And yet, here you come, day after day, telling EhMac how to run a successful forum.



groovetube said:


> Actually, many of us still chat together quite often, I spoke to at least 3 former members just today. Just not on a public forum where you can go sit and watch is all.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> None of them. They just shouldn't be funded involuntarily.


You know what taxation means? It’s when a portion of your paycheque is taken from you. Involuntarily. If it’s voluntary, it’s a charitable contribution, not taxation.


----------



## Macfury

A charitable contribution, a voluntary contribution or paying for a good or a service.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You know what taxation means? It’s when a portion of your paycheque is taken from you. Involuntarily. If it’s voluntary, it’s a charitable contribution, not taxation.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> You have to use alternative communication channels, because you collectively drove MacDiscussions and MacMagic into the ground years ago. And yet, here you come, day after day, telling EhMac how to run a successful forum.


Well, since this thread is about American politics, I’ll leave you to whatever idiotic obsessions you have about that. No one really cares.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> You know what taxation means? It’s when a portion of your paycheque is taken from you. Involuntarily. If it’s voluntary, it’s a charitable contribution, not taxation.


It’s always facinating to hear people complain about ‘involuntary’ funding of services. Every 4 years we hold elections for various levels of government that sets out taxation levels. They’re often usually fairly ok with driving on our roads, turning on our taps for safe and tested drinking water for instance, and they aren’t held prisoner here in Ontario.

There’s very little that’s ‘involuntary’ about it.


----------



## Macfury

Being responsible for destroying EhMac has haunted me. Cut me some slack!



groovetube said:


> Well, since this thread is about American politics, I’ll leave you to whatever idiotic obsessions you have about that. No one really cares.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It’s always facinating to hear people complain about ‘involuntary’ funding of services. Every 4 years we hold elections for various levels of government that sets out taxation levels. They’re often usually fairly ok with driving on our roads, turning on our taps for safe and tested drinking water for instance, and they aren’t held prisoner here in Ontario.
> 
> There’s very little that’s ‘involuntary’ about it.


I have no problem with paying involuntary taxes as the cost of living in a society, provided the taxes are fair, benefit everyone, and are used for that which they’ve been collected. I have a HUGE problem with people like Jason Kenney who uses our tax money (and our pensions) for bad investments, and when he loses his gambles, inevitably, he doubles down. Take Keystone XL for example, or coal mining or investing in AimCo. Every time he gambles with other people’s money he loses. For an American example, look at the unfinished wall. It was a boondoggle from start to finish, a Trump vanity project, something he could put his name on. And ultimately useless. And the Mexicans were supposed to pay for it so the taxpayers wouldn’t have to.


----------



## groovetube

Trump’s wall is an absolute joke. So was his whole build a wall and the Mexicans are gonna pay for it. Along with his there’s gonna be beautiful healthcare that everyone can afford, in 2 weeks of course... to mention a couple amongst countless scams. It’s hard to imagine any self respecting libertarian supporting him.

I don’t know a lot about Albertan politics, but just about every friend/family person I know, even the conservative ones, tell me he is complete bumbling fool.


----------



## Macfury

I think you guys should pay plenty of taxes!


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> I have no problem with paying involuntary taxes as the cost of living in a society, provided the taxes are fair, benefit everyone, and are used for that which they’ve been collected. I have a HUGE problem with people like Jason Kenney who uses our tax money (and our pensions) for bad investments, and when he loses his gambles, inevitably, he doubles down. Take Keystone XL for example, or coal mining or investing in AimCo. Every time he gambles with other people’s money he loses. For an American example, look at the unfinished wall. It was a boondoggle from start to finish, a Trump vanity project, something he could put his name on. And ultimately useless. And the Mexicans were supposed to pay for it so the taxpayers wouldn’t have to.


I think most people are ok with paying taxes, it is the waist that infuriates. Governments spend like their is no limit on a credit card. How many hundreds of millions and billions have been waisted in recent years in Ontario? I think of the power plant debacle, I think of the ornge helicopter debacle among other things. This is money that was just thrown away with no accountability.


----------



## polywog

wonderings said:


> I think most people are ok with paying taxes, it is the waist that infuriates. Governments spend like their is no limit on a credit card. How many hundreds of millions and billions have been waisted in recent years in Ontario? I think of the power plant debacle, I think of the ornge helicopter debacle among other things. This is money that was just thrown away with no accountability.


Or, at the federal level, the hundreds of millions wasted since Phoenix pay was forced online.


----------



## wonderings

polywog said:


> Or, at the federal level, the hundreds of millions wasted since Phoenix pay was forced online.


It is across the board, provincial and federal. Not sure how the system could be fixed, but the waist on all fronts would sink any private business. This covers everything from public servant wages to the waisted/lost money due to negligence.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> It is across the board, provincial and federal. Not sure how the system could be fixed, but the waist on all fronts would sink any private business. This covers everything from public servant wages to the waisted/lost money due to negligence.


It's not fixable under the current system, as the fat cat public sector is too large to overthrow, even by elected officials who set out with the specific goal to reform government spending. Citizens who get more than they give have no incentive to demand any change to accountability either.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I think most people are ok with paying taxes, it is the waist that infuriates. Governments spend like their is no limit on a credit card. How many hundreds of millions and billions have been waisted in recent years in Ontario? I think of the power plant debacle, I think of the ornge helicopter debacle among other things. This is money that was just thrown away with no accountability.


Exactement, as the French would say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactement, as the French would say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think how many problems we could solve, or people we could help with no debt on our part. Sad that it is only the stuff of some utopic story.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I think most people are ok with paying taxes, it is the waist that infuriates. Governments spend like their is no limit on a credit card. How many hundreds of millions and billions have been waisted in recent years in Ontario? I think of the power plant debacle, I think of the ornge helicopter debacle among other things. This is money that was just thrown away with no accountability.


I can think of far more than just the liberal boondoggles. Just the Ford brothers alone have wasted billions in cancelled contracts, notably the Scarborough LRT, and more. The arguments however, always devolve into one side defending the clear waste of tax money, and both sides have done it, equally. Yet here we are. 

We complain a lot, and I mean, everyone does. But the scam is, one side says they respect the tax payers dollars more than the other, often while focusing spending on things their supporters want, failing to have the proper oversight, and well we've seen how that ends plenty of times. That's just a really overly simplistic take. But the main point to me, is the fact that overwhelming data says that both our main federal parties are just as bad as the other, but somehow we pretend that's not the case. Both sides have been enlisted in this war on who spends best. 

And that's why we have bad government, and they get away with it.



polywog said:


> Or, at the federal level, the hundreds of millions wasted since Phoenix pay was forced online.


Here's an example where one government really blew it on something, and then the next one, while one can argue inherited a mess, the truth is, was no better at fixing it either. But there is endless social media arguments over which one wasted the millions. Meanwhile, the millions got wasted. Mediocrity continues. Until people begin to wise up and start demanding whichever party they support do much better to get their vote, they are well aware there is little consequences to wasting all that money.



wonderings said:


> Think how many problems we could solve, or people we could help with no debt on our part. Sad that it is only the stuff of some utopic story.


The truth is, we -can- help a lot of people. But that's socialism apparently, and if that doesn't work, we are told we have to slash slash slash, privatize and by golly, pull our bootstraps up but oh, you're a corporation, well help is ON the way! It always has been, as we have weathered a long sustained campaign of cutting corporate taxes (because it's their money riiiiight??? dimwits...) because we were sold "JOBS". But anyone who is half aware should have realized by now, that corporate tax cuts does not equal job creation. It never did. And yes, I aware Chretien did it in the early 90s. And as the revenue hollows out (because these tax breaks are massive) then suddenly, while we're all paying similar taxes, with the odd trinket of tax credit/coupla hundred here tossed our way, we're told we have to cut our healthcare, education (because those teachers are LAZY and only work 10 months of year riiiight?) privatize everything, "go line by line focused like a laser!!!, selling off the 407 for peanuts while we, the taxpayer get gouged, the long term care homes, (anyone wonder what Mikey the knife Harris is up to these days???) and no the Liberals aren't innocent of these bumbling, corrupt, incompetent acts either, as we all know (and you pointed out a couple of their huge wastes)

There has to be a time where people stop pretending their choice of the 2 federal parties are any better at managing our money than the other. And this idea of pretending the other is somehow okay with tax revenue waste pretty halts any agreement anywhere. And that is just what any of those parties want. Of course! What's the alternative? I have always advocated for a fairer representation. No more majority governments. Can coalitions work? Maybe, but one problem I see with that, is I think it's obvious by now, that there are often less Canadians voting for the conservatives than the liberal/ndp/greens. So, what could end up happening, is the conservatives will not see government anytime soon, and while I may dislike the conservatives, less so about fiscal policy than their social policy (which often drives the economic one...), I did say, 'fair' representation.


----------



## Macfury

In recent history, that is not true at all. The Harper Conservatives whittled the deficit down considerably, while the Trudeau Liberals blew the gaskets out of the budget even before the pandemic.



groovetube said:


> But the main point to me, is the fact that overwhelming data says that both our main federal parties are just as bad as the other, but somehow we pretend that's not the case. Both sides have been enlisted in this war on who spends best.


----------



## groovetube

But you’re just fine with Trump blowing up the deficit.

I disagree. For many reasons that would go far beyond some cherry picked snapshots.


----------



## Macfury

Looking good to 2015 when Trudeau took over:





__





Canada Government Debt - 2021 Data - 2022 Forecast - 1962-2020 Historical - Chart


Government Debt in Canada increased to 1048.75 CAD Billion in 2021 from 721.36 CAD Billion in 2020. Government Debt in Canada averaged 334.18 CAD Billion from 1962 until 2021, reaching an all time high of 1048.75 CAD Billion in 2021 and a record low of 14.83 CAD Billion in 1962. This page...




tradingeconomics.com





Why is this "snapshot" cretaed by Canada's Department of Finance not accurate?











groovetube said:


> I disagree. For many reasons that would go far beyond some cherry picked snapshots.


----------



## groovetube

Because one can also find the snapshots of when Harper took over, and go back and look at successive liberal and conservative governments both federal and and provincial have done.

I’m not interested in your silly wind up games. I disagree strongly with looking at a narrow myopic view, as I have already, said.


----------



## Macfury

We can go back to prehistoric times, But all I'm asking you to do is to look at the Harper Conservatives and the Trudeau Liberals. It's proof positive that some governments really can make a difference regarding deficits.



groovetube said:


> Because one can also find the snapshots of when Harper took over, and go back and look at successive liberal and conservative governments both federal and and provincial have done.
> 
> I’m not interested in your silly wind up games. I disagree strongly with looking at a narrow myopic view, as I have already, said.


----------



## groovetube

I’ll let you beat that dead horse all on your own.


----------



## Macfury

If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that two different federal governments have achieved vastly different results with regard to deficits, then I don't expect your ideas on the matter will have much velocity.



groovetube said:


> I’ll let you beat that dead horse all on your own.


----------



## groovetube

I couldn't give a sh!t what you think of my ideas! Nor I suspect, does anyone else!

Now stop being so childish that we disagree, and move on.


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, I get that! Wouldn't want a little thing like facts and numbers messing up your day.



groovetube said:


> I couldn't give a sh!t what you think of my ideas! Nor I suspect, does anyone else!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yeah, I get that! Wouldn't want a little thing like facts and numbers messing up your day.


That’s enough Macfury. Stop goading. You’re being a real....what’s the word....I know it ends in sshole though.


----------



## groovetube

Dude is totally having a meltdown. So much for talking about something here.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> Yeah, I get that! Wouldn't want a little thing like facts and numbers messing up your day.


Facts and numbers terrify the Kool-aid crowd, as they always contradict the officially sanctioned narratives. Besides Freddie Math and GT logic, make comprehending the meaning of either numbers or facts almost impossible, for the practitioners.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Facts and numbers terrify the Kool-aid crowd, as they always contradict the officially sanctioned narratives. Besides Freddie Math and GT logic, make comprehending the meaning of either numbers or facts almost impossible, for the practitioners.


Are you ever going to come up with any new insults of your own instead of recycling FeXL’s old standby’s from years ago? Man, talk about unoriginal.


----------



## groovetube

Like I said, so much for the topic. This place hasn’t changed.

I dared suggest that the liberals and conservatives were aweful with wasting our tax money, and the 2 trolls literally had a total meltdown!

pathetic.


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> Facts and numbers terrify the Kool-aid crowd, as they always contradict the officially sanctioned narratives. Besides Freddie Math and GT logic, make comprehending the meaning of either numbers or facts almost impossible, for the practitioners.


Yep, but calmly showing them the numbers them is a "total meltdown." Hard evidence drives the good people away to MacMagic, don't you know?


----------



## groovetube

No you didn't. My post was about a greater picture over time (which clearly you didn't really read...) you decided to be a dick and cherry pick one graph, which was apparently the extent of your 'facts', and completely miss the point of my post. I tried to point that out, but in true macfury form, you became obsessive, and wouldn't let it go. I tried to let it go as a disagreement, and you still, wouldn't let it go. That's a problem dude. But it's just what you do, it's what you've always done for 15 years. A 10 year old would be embarrassed by your 'facts'.

And someone should tell the resident troll, that this place was sold off to a company years ago that's merely keeping the lights on to pimp the old posts out for ad revenue. His thread doesn't even appear in the front page recent posts display, because obviously, it's likely been manually deselected... This place has already died a loooong time ago. So it's merely tap dancing on the grave of what once was...

So the taunting and bragging, is a bit embarrassing. 

I've tried to add a little life to this thread, but honestly, I'll say what pretty much all the past members have said already, this crap is a waste of time. I'll say it again, no wonder this place is a ghost town. Nice work troll!


----------



## Macfury

Sorry that I made you sad by pursuing a topic you brought up yourself. It might better for you if you stuck to the Shangrila Clubhouse where you will never be asked to stand up for your ideas.

But if this place is a ghost town at least it still has a web address, unlike MacMagic... where all the good ghosts go! Thanks for attracting so many new users to this community with your good cheer and openness to discourse!


----------



## groovetube

The good news is, there’s likely help out there for you for this.


----------



## Macfury

Are you obsessed with garage rock, groovetube? No matter. You are welcome here!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Are you obsessed with garage rock, groovetube? No matter. You are welcome here!


You know, Peter, you’re not the actual moderator here, right? Nor are you the welcoming committee. Your just another guy who thinks he knows something. But you like to goad, and you know it’s not one of your best qualities. What the rat of see as goading you seem to view as meaningful discussion. I’m not sure why that is.


----------



## Macfury

Addressing me? There is very little meaningful discussion of issues here. Mostly crazy ass assertions, followed by people pissing and moaning when they are called on them. A few people here, like wonderings and polywog and beej know how to do the give and take.


----------



## Macfury

It's like your repeated assertions that I know something about "qanon." I could piss and moan that you're goading me--and that's certainly how others see it. But it doesn't matter to me. You have a long history of it and I'm not made of sugar.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It's like your repeated assertions that I know something about "qanon." I could piss and moan that you're goading me--and that's certainly how others see it. But it doesn't matter to me. You have a long history of it and I'm not made of sugar.


For a guy who claims to know so much about American politics, it’s surprising how little you seem to be aware of about QAnon. They are a major influence in the cult of Trump. You really should read up on them some time.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> For a guy who claims to know so much about American politics, it’s surprising how little you seem to be aware of about QAnon. They are a major influence in the cult of Trump. You really should read up on them some time.


Of course they know what Qanon is about. It's just a useless windup.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Of course they know what Qanon is about. It's just a useless windup.


You’d think he’d want to brag about how amazing they are. I mean, they were right about March 4 weren’t they?


----------



## groovetube

Omg! Qanon, is actually.... shriek! They’re actually antifa! Yeah! And George Soros is funding them to make Trump look bad!

I read it on Facebook.


----------



## groovetube

Awww. The conservatives whining about being silenced, to millions of viewers on their own network, on a show with their name...

awww. Login • Instagram

What a bunch whiny sore losers really. Whimpering about cancel culture. Oh hey I bet the Dixie Chicks can speak about “cancel Culture”.


----------



## Macfury

Looks like you giuys follow this — and FOX News — more than I ever do. Will count on your updates!


----------



## Macfury

Choosing not to listen to the Dixie Chicks is not cancel culture, any more than choosing not to buy the books that offend you.



groovetube said:


> Oh hey I bet the Dixie Chicks can speak about “cancel Culture”.


----------



## groovetube

I’m happy you feel that way. I agree with that. But it appears that many of the trump people are pretty hepped up about this, especially right now. I’m just pointing out the irony.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Choosing not to listen to the Dixie Chicks is not cancel culture, any more than choosing not to buy the books that offend you.


It is if you used to listen to them and then stopped because of Natalie Maines comments about George Bush in 2003. It’s a VERY good example of cancel culture.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Awww. The conservatives whining about being silenced, to millions of viewers on their own network, on a show with their name...
> 
> awww. Login • Instagram


They’re pissed because for four years they’ve had Trump available to amplify their bullish!t. Now it’s just the same old media they’ve always had. They’re definitely not being silenced, although it may well be that people are not taking them seriously anymore. I think that little stunt on January 6 caught people’s attention, but the Trump followers also shot themselves in the foot that day.


----------



## Macfury

Nobody stopped people from listening to them or made their music unavailable. It was a market choice based on the group's decision to offend a considerable number of their fans. They're still putting out albums and touring, and their full song catalogue remains on the market. So not cancelled. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> It is if you used to listen to them and then stopped because of Natalie Maines comments about George Bush in 2003. It’s a VERY good example of cancel culture.


----------



## groovetube

Oh now suddenly ‘cancel culture’ is being redefined!

translation: it doesn’t count for democrat supporters.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Nobody stopped people from listening to them or made their music unavailable. It was a market choice based on the group's decision to offend a considerable number of their fans. They're still putting out albums and touring, and their full song catalogue remains on the market. So not cancelled.


Actually that’s simply not true. Their music was removed from thousands of radio stations and they were blackballed and cancelled on countless industry functions. If there ever was a definition of ‘cancelled’ this is it.


----------



## Macfury

That describes another phenomenon known as "call-out culture" in which a person (usually a celebrity) is boycotted after speaking in a manner considered controversial by certain groups.



groovetube said:


> Actually that’s simply not true. Their music was removed from thousands of radio stations and they were blackballed and cancelled on countless industry functions. If there ever was a definition of ‘cancelled’ this is it.


----------



## groovetube

And what do we call this? ‘Bullish!t culture’?

well at least we’ve established that there are two sets of rules, one for the left and one for the right.


----------



## Macfury

Have you established that? I must have missed it.


----------



## groovetube

Well that only took a few posts and meltdown!


----------



## Macfury

The 98.6-degree meltdown strikes again.


----------



## groovetube

Omg please post more about your ‘call out culture’!!!

That was PRICELESS! Ha ha ha ha ha ha. 😅


----------



## Macfury

Can't fault your keen analysis and broad understanding of societal trends. You deserve a prize for that last post — but all I can do is "like" it.


----------



## groovetube

dude you’re supposed to microdose that .... not eat the whole thing!!!


----------



## Macfury

Sounds like a drug reference, but it isn't something I know much about. Shall we just sign off for the night on your area of expertise?


----------



## groovetube

I donno, you tell me! I’m just sitting back wondering what could possibly be the problem!

that display was pretty epic!


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, my ticker's beating like a rabbit's after that beating I took at your hands.


----------



## groovetube

Honestly if my laughter is a beating for you, I humbly apologize.

“Call out culture”!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Nobody stopped people from listening to them or made their music unavailable. It was a market choice based on the group's decision to offend a considerable number of their fans. They're still putting out albums and touring, and their full song catalogue remains on the market. So not cancelled.


Apparently you don’t understand what the term “cancel culture” actually means. The Dixie Chicks were certainly cancelled among country radio stations in 2003, which was their main audience at the time. So were the Beatles when a number of fans burned their records. The success or lack thereof of the cancel campaign is not what determines whether it’s an attempt to cancel something. Dr. Seuss and Pepe LePew will live on despite an attempt to cancel them.


----------



## groovetube

No noooooo it’s “Call out culture”!

Somebody call Tucker Carlson!!!


----------



## Macfury

The Dixie Chicks were boycotted because some fans no longer supported them as individuals. Radio stations stopped playing them because their former fans no longer wanted to hear them. Their loss of popularity was an economic response to their message.

Call-out culture as applied to the Dr. Seuss titles would encourage people to stop buying those titles — boycott them. Cancel culture seeks to stop anyone from ever seeing those books reprinted again.




Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently you don’t understand what the term “cancel culture” actually means. The Dixie Chicks were certainly cancelled among country radio stations in 2003, which was their main audience at the time. So were the Beatles when a number of fans burned their records. The success or lack thereof of the cancel campaign is not what determines whether it’s an attempt to cancel something. Dr. Seuss and Pepe LePew will live on despite an attempt to cancel them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The Dixie Chicks were boycotted because some fans no longer supported them as individuals. Radio stations stopped playing them because their former fans no longer wanted to hear them. Their loss of popularity was an economic response to their message.
> 
> Call-out culture as applied to the Dr. Seuss titles would encourage people to stop buying those titles — boycott them. Cancel culture seeks to stop anyone from ever seeing those books reprinted again.


Man, you are clueless on this one. No offence, but no one—literally no one—is calling for anyone to stop buying Dr. Seuss books. His own foundation is simply deciding to stop publishing six titles, not very popular ones either, because of some racist imagery. They probably should have made this decision a long time ago, but better late than never. No one is attempting to cancel Dr. Seuss the way many people tried to cancel the Dixie Chicks. Sometimes I think you’re being purposely obtuse.


----------



## Macfury

You're not listening. I said they are cancelling the titles, not Dr. Seuss. Nobody tried to "cancel" the Dixie chicks--some people just stopped buying their records and attending their concerts. There was no effort to stop others from buying those records or attending concerts.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Man, you are clueless on this one. No offence, but no one—literally no one—is calling for anyone to stop buying Dr. Seuss books. His own foundation is simply deciding to stop publishing six titles, not very popular ones either, because of some racist imagery. They probably should have made this decision a long time ago, but better late than never. No one is attempting to cancel Dr. Seuss the way many people tried to cancel the Dixie Chicks. Sometimes I think you’re being purposely obtuse.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're not listening. I said they are cancelling the titles, not Dr. Seuss. Nobody tried to "cancel" the Dixie chicks--some people just stopped buying their records and attending their concerts. There was no effort to stop others from buying those records or attending concerts.


There certainly was. What do you think being banned from the radio is all about? You’re attempting to gaslight history. Again.


----------



## groovetube

He's seriously, STILL trying to crawl out of the hole he dug himself into last night?

The Dixie chicks records were pulled from retailers, huge entertainment companies that ran radio stations pulled their titles from all their playlists, industry functions removed them. They, were cancelled. You can justify the action all you want, (which would merely show your position is baseless after the hollering about dr. suess...) but they were cancelled. If that happened to a trump supporting band the screaming would be deafening for months!

The only way to compare to dr. suess is if the dixie chicks themselves... merely decided to stop pressing one of their records because they thought some of the lyrics contained some racist lines. But they still allowed the song to be played on radio and the existing stock of records sold on the market place.


Classic macfury, and why having a normal conversation with this dipstick is pointless.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> You're not listening. I said they are cancelling the titles, not Dr. Seuss. Nobody tried to "cancel" the Dixie chicks--some people just stopped buying their records and attending their concerts. There was no effort to stop others from buying those records or attending concerts.


It looks like, at least in some cases, their music was pulled on Country stations immediately as a result of their comments, not due to a decline in popularity. "Station managers said their decisions were prompted by calls from irate listeners who thought criticism of the president was unpatriotic."

This is at a time when streaming is ... non existant. So musicians rely more heavily on airtime to reach more ears. Some stations were actively encouraging folks to toss their CDs and concert tickets in the garbage.





__





CNN.com - Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush - Mar. 14, 2003






edition.cnn.com


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> It looks like, at least in some cases, their music was pulled on Country stations immediately as a result of their comments, not due to a decline in popularity. "Station managers said their decisions were prompted by calls from irate listeners who thought criticism of the president was unpatriotic."
> 
> This is at a time when streaming is ... non existant. So musicians rely more heavily on airtime to reach more ears. Some stations were actively encouraging folks to toss their CDs and concert tickets in the garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush - Mar. 14, 2003
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


It went far beyond having their music pulled from some stations "in some cases". Check out the actions of clear channel (and the "freedom fighter" Glann Beck, who Im sure yells about cancel culture I bet...) and Cumulus. Radio stations rarely if ever control their own playlists. They haven't in decades.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Man, you are clueless on this one. No offence, but no one—literally no one—is calling for anyone to stop buying Dr. Seuss books. His own foundation is simply deciding to stop publishing six titles, not very popular ones either, because of some racist imagery. They probably should have made this decision a long time ago, but better late than never. No one is attempting to cancel Dr. Seuss the way many people tried to cancel the Dixie Chicks. Sometimes I think you’re being purposely obtuse.


I think there is a lot of pressure now to stay clear of anything that someone might find offensive. In my opinion they stopped publishing these particular books to get ahead of anything that might come their way. Do publishers normally announce when they discontinue a book? Is there a need to announce a discontinued book if no one is buying the book? Right or wrong it looks like a PR move and attempt to get some press and recognition for being woke. Nothing I saw in those books was racist, but I have only googled it trying to find what the issue was. I have only seem a few images. It is their right to stop publishing but again I think there is a lot of pressure these days to stay clear of anything that may upset the loud mobs on twitter and other social media platforms.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I think there is a lot of pressure now to stay clear of anything that someone might find offensive. In my opinion they stopped publishing these particular books to get ahead of anything that might come their way. Do publishers normally announce when they discontinue a book? Is there a need to announce a discontinued book if no one is buying the book? Right or wrong it looks like a PR move and attempt to get some press and recognition for being woke. Nothing I saw in those books was racist, but I have only googled it trying to find what the issue was. I have only seem a few images. It is their right to stop publishing but again I think there is a lot of pressure these days to stay clear of anything that may upset the loud mobs on twitter and other social media platforms.


Uhhhhh... did they announce this? I was under the impression this was done a YEAR AGO, and done so quietly... and the sh!t only hit the fan when Fox News got a hold of this recently.

so, I’m unclear as to what you’re talking about. Can you please show the press release of them announcing this and their ‘wokeness’? I haven’t seen it. I’m only aware of their statement a year later on the day Fox News lost their minds over it.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> Uhhhhh... did they announce this? I was under the impression this was done a YEAR AGO, and done so quietly... and the sh!t only hit the fan when Fox News got a hold of this recently.
> 
> so, I’m unclear as to what you’re talking about. Can you please show the press release of them announcing this and their ‘wokeness’? I haven’t seen it. I’m only aware of their statement a year later on the day Fox News lost their minds over it.


I did read a statement, not sure if this came out because of Fox or if this statement was found by Fox and friends and then came out. 








Statement from Dr. Seuss Enterprises - Seussville


Today, on Dr. Seuss’s Birthday, Dr. Seuss Enterprises celebrates reading and also our mission of supporting all children and families with messages of hope, inspiration, inclusion, and friendship. We are committed to action. To that end, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts...




www.seussville.com





Either way I think the reasoning is woke from what I have seen of the supposed racist and hurtful material. But it is their right and I would never argue that. I just think here is a lot of pressure to appear to be right. The whole thing with Amanda Gorman is a prime example of this pressure. Amanda Gorman *picked* someone to translate her poems. Unfortunately that person was white and the pressure hit heavy and fast making her step down so someone of colour could take the position.


----------



## groovetube

Well that statement came out a whole year after they decided that, and on the day Fox News went wild over it. It’s clear the foundation was well aware of the storm that was about to hit, so this theory of trying to be “woke” is without merit. Unless there’s some real evidence of this. I don’t see any.

This whole “woke” whining crap sounds like a bunch of whiny white boys to me. Most of whom likely couldn’t care less about dr suess. Because I again (!!) see a bunch of meritless crap being alleged without anything to back it up.

Isn't it funny, how the bunch that whine that the "left" makes such an issue out of race, are the very ones that suddenly screamed loudest. A year after the titles were quietly out of print.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> Well that statement came out a whole year after they decided that, and on the day Fox News went wild over it. It’s clear the foundation was well aware of the storm that was about to hit, so this theory of trying to be “woke” is without merit. Unless there’s some real evidence of this. I don’t see any.
> 
> This whole “woke” whining crap sounds like a bunch of whiny white boys to me. Most of whom likely couldn’t care less about dr suess. Because I again (!!) see a bunch of meritless crap being alleged without anything to back it up.
> 
> Isn't it funny, how the bunch that whine that the "left" makes such an issue out of race, are the very ones that suddenly screamed loudest. A year after the titles were quietly out of print.


So you don't see an issue with people complaining about a white person translating a black poets work? These voices on twitter are legitimate in their claims that this is racist because a white person could never understand a black person despite being chosen by the poet herself? This is completely ok that this white poets stands down under this pressure and apologies for some reason

Dr Seuss is not a big deal, but think it does show a bigger picture in society. I see the opposite, a bunch of whiny people (no skin colour needed here) who are looking to be offended by anything and everything. I guess you could say it is the principle. I could care less if the books were pulled, what I do find worrying is a society and culture bowing down to loud voices when there is no reason behind it other then someone at some point decided it was offensive.


----------



## groovetube

"a society and culture bowing down to loud voices when there is no reason behind it other then someone at some point decided it was offensive."

Oh! This whole entire thing... was just "someone"! Wow. Um. Ok. Im not quite sure if you can begin to fathom, just how ridiculous this statement is.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> Honestly, I think you need to sit back, and really start listening. What I find interesting in this thread is that I have consistently asked for real evidence of all these claims.
> 
> Not a shred has been offered. Just more ridiculous claims.


Honestly, I think you need to put your money where your mouth is. What I find interesting in this thread is that all you've contributed so far is your opinion, and a single link to an opinion piece. Yet the burden of proof is on anyone who doesn't agree with you. Anyone who doesn't share your opinion needs to be quiet, sit back and listen.

So... where's _your_ evidence to the contrary. Clearly if you're calling out people's opinions so passionately (I guess being abrasive is passionate?), you have a ton of it. So let's see it.

No really, by all means, Enlighten away. Eagerly listening as requested.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> "a society and culture bowing down to loud voices when there is no reason behind it other then someone at some point decided it was offensive."
> 
> Oh! This whole entire thing... was just "someone"! Wow. Um. Ok. Im not quite sure if you can begin to fathom, just how ridiculous this statement is.


I will ask again, do you agree that the white woman, selected by the black poet should have stepped down because of the outcry on twitter and other social media that she not have been chosen because of the colour of her skin?


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Honestly, I think you need to put your money where your mouth is. What I find interesting in this thread is that all you've contributed so far is your opinion, and a single link to an opinion piece. Yet the burden of proof is on anyone who doesn't agree with you. Anyone who doesn't share your opinion needs to be quiet, sit back and listen.
> 
> So... where's _your_ evidence to the contrary. Clearly if you're calling out people's opinions so passionately (I guess being abrasive is passionate?), you have a ton of it. So let's see it.
> 
> No really, by all means, Enlighten away. Eagerly listening as requested.


That's not how it works. YOU made the allegations, YOU provide the proof. Ive made no claims on this, I merely stated what is known to have happened. If you have further hard evidence to the contrary... I have asked you repeatedly for the evidence.

Neither you, nor macfury, have provided anything. And now you ask me to prove a negative after you all failed? What kind of bullsh!t is this???

pfffft. And you whine about abrasiveness? Well after all the "woke" comments, cry me a river!

So to recap, YOU made the allegations, YOU put your money where your mouth is, or, you're full of it.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I will ask again, do you agree that the white woman, selected by the black poet should have stepped down because of the outcry on twitter and other social media that she not have been chosen because of the colour of her skin?


So you need to change the subject now? I don't know what happened in that case, I haven't read about it. You seemed to have completely abandoned the "woke' people at the dr suess foundation issue.

But you skipped over the part where you dismissed the entire racism issue with black people as, what was it... "no reason behind it other then someone at some point decided it was offensive".

It's hard to even discuss anything with someone with this ridiculous attitude.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> I will ask again, do you agree that the white woman, selected by the black poet should have stepped down because of the outcry on twitter and other social media that she not have been chosen because of the colour of her skin?


I don't have much time right now to continue and read about that incident, however, I do think that perhaps, you might do well to put aside your allegations, insinuations, and faux outrage just for a moment, and maybe read the words written by the white person who stepped aside, Marieke Lucas Rijneveld:



> Never lost that resistance and yet able to grasp when it isn't your place,
> when you must kneel for a poem because another person can make it more inhabitable;
> not out of unwillingness, not out of dismay, but because you know there is so much inequality, people still discriminated against
> Excerpt from Everything inhabitable


Instead of being so outraged by this, consider her own words.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> That's not how it works. YOU made the allegations, YOU provide the proof. Ive made no claims on this, I merely stated what is known to have happened. If you have further hard evidence to the contrary... I have asked you repeatedly for the evidence.
> 
> Neither you, nor macfury, have provided anything. And now you ask me to prove a negative after you all failed? What kind of bullsh!t is this???


Once again you bring Macfury into it. But since you mentioned him, he did provide something. It didn't meet your requirements, though your opinion piece was aces.

You're the one who said wonderings needed to listen. Right, this was you "Honestly, I think you need to sit back, and really start listening." So by all means. Listen to what? I for one am waiting for you super awesome, facts based (with evidence) earth shattering revelations. Of course they won't come.



groovetube said:


> pfffft. And you whine about abrasiveness? Well after all the "woke" comments, cry me a river!


Ah yes, everyone else is responsible for your piss poor behaviour. Because someone has an opinion you don't agree with?

Grow up. You keep carrying on about Macfury and his tactics. As though yours distinguish you in a positive light.


----------



## groovetube

God you're literally not getting this are you?

Ive called you guys out for making allegations that are baseless. The floors yours to provide something substantial. asking to prove a negative is nonsense.

Im listening.

as far as my ‘abrasiveness’ is concerned, it takes two to tango.


----------



## Macfury

Nobody "banned" them from radio. Some radio stations did not play them because their audience was no longer interested in hearing them. Clear Channel, which then carried the majority of popular conservative talk shows, understood its audience.



Freddie_Biff said:


> There certainly was. What do you think being banned from the radio is all about? You’re attempting to gaslight history. Again.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> It looks like, at least in some cases, their music was pulled on Country stations immediately as a result of their comments, not due to a decline in popularity. "Station managers said their decisions were prompted by calls from irate listeners who thought criticism of the president was unpatriotic."
> 
> This is at a time when streaming is ... non existant. So musicians rely more heavily on airtime to reach more ears. Some stations were actively encouraging folks to toss their CDs and concert tickets in the garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush - Mar. 14, 2003
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


Yes, the decision was a response to their listeners. Nobody suggested that their records should not be available in stores that wanted to carry them or played on stations where the listenership still wanted to hear them.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I think there is a lot of pressure now to stay clear of anything that someone might find offensive. In my opinion they stopped publishing these particular books to get ahead of anything that might come their way. Do publishers normally announce when they discontinue a book? Is there a need to announce a discontinued book if no one is buying the book? Right or wrong it looks like a PR move and attempt to get some press and recognition for being woke. Nothing I saw in those books was racist, but I have only googled it trying to find what the issue was. I have only seem a few images. It is their right to stop publishing but again I think there is a lot of pressure these days to stay clear of anything that may upset the loud mobs on twitter and other social media platforms.


The evidence supplied in the original attack was a 2019 study that suggested that the Dr. Seuss catalogue was racist in general.





__





The Cat is Out of the Bag: Orientalism, Anti-Blackness, and White Supremacy in Dr. Seuss's Children's Books


By Katie Ishizuka and Ramón Stephens*, Published on 02/13/19




sophia.stkate.edu





This includes suggestions that the Cat in the Hat is a "blackface" minstrel show character.


----------



## polywog

groovetube said:


> God you're literally not getting this are you?


Have you considered you aren't?



groovetube said:


> Ive called you guys out for making allegations that are baseless. The floors yours to provide something substantial. asking to prove a negative is nonsense.


Unless you still have ties to JoJo's Psychic Alliance, providing substantial proof of someone's motivation is somewhat tricky. But you clearly would not call someone's opinion baseless without some kind of evidence to support that position, maybe you could share your methods with the class?

You're right about one thing; _Several_ people have expressed the same or similar opinion. Several provided _reasoning_ for their opinion. All you have in return is hahah!!!11 that's nonsense.

What's your basis for that?

(Edit: Fixed an extra tag.)



groovetube said:


> Im listening.


I doubt it.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> Yes, the decision was a response to their listeners. Nobody suggested that their records should not be available in stores that wanted to carry them or played on stations where the listenership still wanted to hear them.


I follow, but I'm pointing out this wasn't a case of a decline in interest in their material (as in no one liked their music anymore.) It was a direct response to a political statement they (she?) made, a call to boycott because of it.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> Have you considered you aren't?
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you still have ties to JoJo's Psychic Alliance, providing substantial proof of someone's motivation is somewhat tricky. But you clearly would not call someone's opinion baseless without some kind of evidence to support that position, maybe you could share your methods with the class?
> 
> You're right about one thing; _Several_ people have expressed the same or similar opinion. Several provided _reasoning_ for their opinion. All you have in return is hahah!!!11 that's nonsense.
> 
> What's your basis for that?
> 
> (Edit: Fixed an extra tag.)
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it.


That might be about as close as I'll get to an admission that you have no real basis in believing what you implied about their motivation. It doesn't appear that a psychic alliance will be much help here either. And your only response, is to ask ME to prove their motivation??? Im not the one making assumptions or allegations based on some scant stretch here.

I haven't seen much in the way of any reasoning, except personal feelings on what you thought might be the case. I questioned it, and that seems to have set off a firestorm.

So given Ive made no allegations of their motivations, you'll have to explain to me exactly what it is you wish me to prove???

I accept the facts as they were given about the dr suess thing as presented (which the article I linked to I had thought, summarized), until someone provides something substantial beyond personal opinion to sway my opinion here. I don't think I can express my position on this, any clearer than that. I expect macfury to twist and turn as he's done that to everyone else. I didn't quite expect the 'prove a negative thing" from you however.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> I follow, but I'm pointing out this wasn't a case of a decline in interest in their material (as in no one liked their music anymore.) It was a direct response to a political statement they (she?) made, a call to boycott because of it.


he's playing fast and loose with the definition of "cancelled". He now wants to call it "call out culture".

It wasn't individual radio stations that pulled the Dixie Chicks. Individual radio stations do not set their own playlists, major corporate parent companies who own hundreds and thousands of radio stations do, and of several that yanked the Dixie Chicks out, Cumulus was a big one. It wasn't lack of interest in their music, their latest single was in the top ten. Many fans did call to complain they didn't like them because of their political statements, and that's fine, but it's still cancelling a band off your playlists for your radio stations for their political views no matter how many posts one makes on ehmac. This is precisely the sort of thing Fox News would lose their minds over if the political statements were something they agree on. "cancel culture at the liberal media companies!!" would be the headline.

What I do find somewhat ironic, is many of these fans likely voted for Trump, who had even more criticism of Bush and his Iraq War. Just as an aside.

So what happens is, if you agree with it, it's not cancelling. If you disagree, well cancel away! Spend pages telling half truths no one believes anyway I guess.

Have any minds been changed yet? Im guessing no


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I follow, but I'm pointing out this wasn't a case of a decline in interest in their material (as in no one liked their music anymore.) It was a direct response to a political statement they (she?) made, a call to boycott because of it.


When the president of GOYA foods praised one of President Trump's employment programs, there was an effort by the left to boycott his products. I would not call a boycott by consumers cancel culture. They're sending a message to the company on how its position affects their buying decisions. It would be cancel culture if the effort was to attempt to wipe out the company permanently.

You may see the Dixie Chicks as an effort to cancel them entirely. I see it as a boycott engineered by fans as a call-out to punish them for what they saw as a single act of betrayal. The Chicks held fast to their position and so did many of their conservative listeners.

Boycotting the Dr. Seuss books in question would be call-out culture. Demanding that they never be published again is cancel culture.


----------



## groovetube

Oh. So now it's "boycott". Let's see how many more definitions we can get through.

Call it whatever the hell you want. It still boils down to the same thing. The right whines about "cancel culture". I pointed out the hypocrisy, which you, are demonstrating quite admirably.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> When the president of GOYA foods praised one of President Trump's employment programs, there was an effort by the left to boycott his products. I would not call a boycott by consumers cancel culture. They're sending a message to the company on how its position affects their buying decisions. It would be cancel culture if the effort was to attempt to wipe out the company permanently.


Maybe off topic but I thought the boycott was the response to Trump actively promoting said companies products in the White House? Neither here nor there, I didn't follow that plot point closely.



Macfury said:


> You may see the Dixie Chicks as an effort to cancel them entirely. I see it as a boycott engineered by fans as a call-out to punish them for what they saw as a single act of betrayal. The Chicks held fast to their position and so did many of their conservative listeners.
> 
> Boycotting the Dr. Seuss books in question would be call-out culture. Demanding that they never be published again is cancel culture.


I wasn't attempting to establish anything beyond that they lost airtime, as you say, by "a boycott engineered by fans" rather than a decline in popularity which you had alluded to earlier. The latter probably followed and persisted though.

I see the distinction you're making vis a vis the cultures.


----------



## groovetube

"demanding that they don't publish the book"... "demanding the radio stations not play the Dixie Chicks"

It isn't any different. It's just that he agrees with one but not the other. As Ive already pointed out.

You can't call one cancel culture and one not. That's hypocrisy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> I follow, but I'm pointing out this wasn't a case of a decline in interest in their material (as in no one liked their music anymore.) It was a direct response to a political statement they (she?) made, a call to boycott because of it.


It was more of a political stance that a conservative segment of the public was taking because Natalie Maines said they were embarrassed that George W. Bush was from Texas. The fact that it was a woman who dared criticize the commander-in-chief only made things worse fro the Chicks, who absolutely faced the backlash in what today we would call cancel culture. They had to find a new audience after that and did fairly well considering. Anytime someone comes along and tries to negate the good work that someone has done previously because they’re personally offended, and they try to get a large group to go along with them, is a potential example of cancel culture. Some people are trying to cancel Dr. Seuss but there seems to be a lot of people coming to his defence, so I’m not sure that’s a good example of cancel culture.


----------



## Macfury

The "Chicks" failed to understand the nature of their support base and much of their base abandoned them. Losing your fans is not being canceled. That's a natural consequence of their choice to speak out. You can't force their disgruntled fans to continue financially supporting them.




Freddie_Biff said:


> It was more of a political stance that a conservative segment of the public was taking because Natalie Maines said they were embarrassed that George W. Bush was from Texas. The fact that it was a woman who dared criticize the commander-in-chief only made things worse fro the Chicks, who absolutely faced the backlash in what today we would call cancel culture. They had to find a new audience after that and did fairly well considering. Anytime someone comes along and tries to negate the good work that someone has done previously because they’re personally offended, and they try to get a large group to go along with them, is a potential example of cancel culture. Some people are trying to cancel Dr. Seuss but there seems to be a lot of people coming to his defence, so I’m not sure that’s a good example of cancel culture.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Maybe off topic but I thought the boycott was the response to Trump actively promoting said companies products in the White House? Neither here nor there, I didn't follow that plot point closely.


The Goya CEO praised a Trump Administration program designed to promote minority business opportunities and appeared at the inaugural event for the program. The boycott esentially stated that nobody can support anything with which Trump is associated. Trump's promotional efforts for Goya followed the boycott.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> The "Chicks" failed to understand the nature of their support base and much of their base abandoned them. Losing your fans is not being canceled. That's a natural consequence of their choice to speak out. You can't force their disgruntled fans to continue financially supporting them.


The problem here is, you have failed to make any real distinction between the Dixie Chicks losing their ‘fans’, or, customers, whatever you want to call them, over the DC’s political statements, and Goya losing customers over... their political statement. 


So so far, to recap your nonsensical explanations and a growing list of categories, if the response is something you agree with, it’s just a boycott. Or maybe even ‘call out culture’. But if the response is something you disagree with, well, that’s cancel culture.

So you’re going to have to do a far better job explaining why there’s a difference. Tossing out half truths and vague descriptions amount to nothing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> The problem here is, you have failed to make any real distinction between the Dixie Chicks losing their ‘fans’, or, customers, whatever you want to call them, over the DC’s political statements, and Goya losing customers over... their political statement.
> 
> 
> So so far, to recap your nonsensical explanations and a growing list of categories, if the response is something you agree with, it’s just a boycott. Or maybe even ‘call out culture’. But if the response is something you disagree with, well, that’s cancel culture.
> 
> So you’re going to have to do a far better job explaining why there’s a difference. Tossing out half truths and vague descriptions amount to nothing.


He also seems to think that the right can’t be associated with cancel culture. That’s a lefty “prog” thing.


----------



## Macfury

You're not paying attention. I said they are the same thing. There is no distinction to be made.



groovetube said:


> The problem here is, you have failed to make any real distinction between the Dixie Chicks losing their ‘fans’, or, customers, whatever you want to call them, over the DC’s political statements, and Goya losing customers over... their political statement.


----------



## groovetube

Point out where you said it was all the same thing. Because clearly, that’s been my point all along. It’s just the right whines about cancel culture when it suits them.


----------



## Macfury

Both are boycotts/call-out culture, not cancel culture.



groovetube said:


> Point out where you said it was all the same thing. Because clearly, that’s been my point all along. It’s just the right whines about cancel culture when it suits them.


----------



## groovetube

You haven’t explained your position, you’ve merely declared them so.

Useless. And without merit until you do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

“Cancel culture (or call-out culture) is a modern form of ostracism in which someone is thrust out of social or professional circles – whether it be online, on social media, or in person. Those who are subject to this ostracism are said to have been "cancelled".[1][a] The expression "cancel culture" has mostly negative connotations and is commonly used in debates on free speech and censorship.[4]

The notion of cancel culture is a variant on the term call-out culture and constitutes a form of boycotting involving an individual (usually a celebrity) who is deemed to have acted or spoken in a questionable or controversial manner.[2][5][6][7][8] For those on the receiving end of cancel culture, the consequences can lead to loss of reputation and income, from which it can be hard to recover.[9]”

- from Wikipedia

Wrong again, Macfury.


----------



## groovetube

Next we’ll hear about Wikipedia being rhino or socialist or something.

Well there’s a couple pages of more useless macfury windups.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Next we’ll hear about Wikipedia being rhino or socialist or something.
> 
> Well there’s a couple pages of more useless macfury windups.


Yeah. Prog definitions or some such. I wonder where he gets his definitions from.


----------



## groovetube

Well we can think of a few networks that love using that phrase to outrage their viewers. There’s a reason they get millions of viewers, they know their audiences!


----------



## groovetube

no dingbats with miracle cures, what the hell is Biden thinking!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> View attachment 93723
> 
> 
> no dingbats with miracle cures, what the hell is Biden thinking!


It’s hard to believe the USA was actually run by a trailer park billionaire for four years. And a number of people thought he was doing a good job! The mind boggles.


----------



## groovetube

First he promised all those people the moon. He played them like a fiddle. It was almost as if he has been rehearsing for that his entire life. Big beeeeyoootiful wall and Mexicans are gonna pay for it! Beeeeyoooutiful healthcare for everyone it’s gonna be affordable! In 2 weeks! He played that scam right to the very end!! He’s gonna eliminate the deficit... pay down the debt, they’re gonna win win win!!!!! He knew well that many Americans have been folded over by years of mediocre governments in the back pocket of the wealthy, and that they were just prime for a huge fleecing. “Establishment!” You hear. But what went on, was one of the biggest eras of gluttony amongst the wealthy I have witnessed in my lifetime. But it’s their money! You hear the dimwits scream! Less government because government is bad and corrupt! Well yeah but handing the keys more and more to the corporate interests which was exactly trump’s course in no way reduces corruption... it increases it! Except, the people can no longer vote them out. Why do you think the republican state governments are right now, furiously passing as much voter suppression laws as they can, because “VOTER FRAUD!” they once again have them all primed for another dousing. Trump and his pals made hundreds of millions on this! And they’re still milking that one!!!

Let’s remember, not one of these dingbats was able to produce any credible evidence whatsoever that proves there was the kind of voter fraud that would swing an election. We watched as court case after court case went on without so much as a peep about it from trump’s lawyer, besides the obviously nonse affidavits. What an entertaining circus that was... But it doesn’t matter to these nutjobs. They’ll scream about dominion voting machines without any understanding of how the legal system works and scream coverup because the dream, that taste of winning and FU! Felt so good, it makes no difference most Americans didn’t really benefit really. The American economy was already moving and Trump did very little in that regard. But you’ll notice that if you question them about trump and the economy, they’ll just get mad and sullen, go around in circles evading what they know is total BS.

but the mere fact one would point all this obvious stuff out, automatically makes one a left wing pinko socialist, and that’s why these scoundrels get away with this stuff.

So yeah, keep screaming “establishment!”, “status quo!”, “globalists!”... while they laugh in your face and rob the American people blind.


----------



## Macfury

I love the way groovetube provides the arguments on both sides of the issue... all by himself. People screaming this. Fools demanding that. Everybody being duped by people playing fiddles. 

No facts. 

More than anybody, he has his finger on the pulse of America!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

An excellent summation, GT.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

An excellent summation, GT.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I love the way groovetube provides the arguments on both sides of the issue... all by himself. People screaming this. Fools demanding that. Everybody being duped by people playing fiddles.
> 
> No facts.
> 
> More than anybody, he has his finger on the pulse of America!


Not an excellent summation, Mf. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Screaming dimwits being played like fiddles are breathing prayers of thanks for this!



Freddie_Biff said:


> An excellent summation, GT.


----------



## groovetube

He’s annoyed. I would be too if I thought I was supporting the movement that was supposed to be anti-establishment but turned out to be the biggest money scam in American history.

ao I’ll just let him vent. While he moans that I simply wrote my opinion without links or outright endorsements of another political party it robs him of the trolls favorite things, go after the source and the endorsement, and evade the topic altogether.

above all, don’t address the topic. Redefine what you want to goad about. That’s his MO.

that’s why he’s left fighting over scraps to goad now. My return is probably the most fun he’s had in, oh, 7 years


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Screaming dimwits being played like fiddles are breathing prayers of thanks for this!


Oh I doubt it. They’ll just get madder. But it doesn’t matter anymore. Reasoning doesn’t work, so why bother right?


----------



## Macfury

These infusions of truth in large doses are tough for people like me to swallow. Nobody is even asking for proof. You can't "link" truth this big. People played like fiddles.


----------



## groovetube

Wow, that’s quite the melt!

The computer says no! Ha ha ha.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Maybe off topic but I thought the boycott was the response to Trump actively promoting said companies products in the White House? Neither here nor there, I didn't follow that plot point closely.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't attempting to establish anything beyond that they lost airtime, as you say, by "a boycott engineered by fans" rather than a decline in popularity which you had alluded to earlier. The latter probably followed and persisted though.
> 
> I see the distinction you're making vis a vis the cultures.


I think another interesting example is the controversy regarding Disney and Gina Carano. The Disney boycott has a specific goal. If they rehire Carano, the boycott stops.


----------



## polywog

Macfury said:


> I think another interesting example is the controversy regarding Disney and Gina Carano. The Disney boycott has a specific goal. If they rehire Carano, the boycott stops.


Interestingly, Disney is darned near impossible to boycott, unless you give up consuming media entirely.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

polywog said:


> Interestingly, Disney is darned near impossible to boycott, unless you give up consuming media entirely.


They are everywhere and influential for sure. That doesn’t make them right though. As for Carano, if there was some kind of clause in her contract and she violated it, oh well. Live and learn.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> Interestingly, Disney is darned near impossible to boycott, unless you give up consuming media entirely.


The place it hurts is subscriptions to their online streaming service.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> They are everywhere and influential for sure. That doesn’t make them right though. As for Carano, if there was some kind of clause in her contract and she violated it, oh well. Live and learn.


the hazards of that kind of work. And the sudden realization that free speech works both ways. As the Dixie chicks found out.

Are we still playing eenie meenie miney moe with cancel/call out/boycott?

paper rock scissors?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> the hazards of that kind of work. And the sudden realization that free speech works both ways. As the Dixie chicks found out.
> 
> Are we still playing eenie meenie miney moe with cancel/call out/boycott?
> 
> paper rock scissors?


I don’t know. Macfury, where are we at on the terminology?


----------



## groovetube

He’s schooling us all!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Well it sure is quiet around here.


----------



## groovetube

Perhaps it’s the ‘cancel culture’.


----------



## Freddie_Biff




----------



## Macfury

You guys drove all of the good people away.


----------



## groovetube

Indeed. The whole glass menagerie!


----------



## Macfury

The Wingfields, anyway.


----------



## groovetube

Trump is returning to social media in a few months with his own platform, spokesman says


Former President Donald Trump is coming back to social media -- but this time with his own network, a Trump spokesperson told Fox News on Sunday.




www.cnn.com





Praise the lord and pass the loot. I mean why wouldn't he do this, he can line up millions of these idiots and fleece them blind for years telling them all kinds of sh!t, everything from the Clintons eat babies to he's the second (third?) coming in, uh, 2 weeks.

Those debts sure ain't gonna pay for themselves!! He's gonna make Glenn Beck Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones look like amateurs!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Grifters gonna grift.


----------



## Macfury

Can you imagine, people freely offering their own money in exchange for a service they want? What has the world come to?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Grifters gonna grift.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Grifters gonna grift.


Just let them believe your the second coming that's gonna save them from child eating satanist globalists. There'll be plenty of them lining up saying "he's providing' a service!!' Here's mah credit card number!!

you just couldn't make this up if you tried.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It amazes me how many people there are who can’t see through Trump’s obvious con job. Kool Aid drinkers gonna drink Kool Aid.


----------



## groovetube

Oh I think some do, but just like to goad. It's just what they do.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> It amazes me how many people there are who can’t see through Trump’s obvious con job. Kool Aid drinkers gonna drink Kool Aid.


I would have voted for Trump initially, with hind sight I would not vote for him. I am hungry for a political who is not a politician, not from that world. It would be a tough position to be in, not willing to vote for Hillary or Biden and yet no alternative and voting anything but the 2 parties is throwing your vote away. I think there is a desperation which has lead to some delusion as there was no one to vote for that held the same or similar values. I am hoping that any opportunity for Trump to run again next election is removed which in turn I think will help people move on knowing there is no hope to get him back in so that idea can just dissipate.


----------



## groovetube

It is unfortunately a crappy situation. When the country sees Biden and the democrats as a great choice, it says a great deal about where the republicans are. We'll eventually see a swing, and it'll be back in the republicans corner once again.

"Freedom" has been sold to unsuspecting Americans as a way to rape and pillage by the rich elite, all the while selling that the other side is the "elite"

Rinse and repeat. As more and more tax breaks and a total breakdown of regulations to stop companies from destroying our land sea and air are sold wholesale as "job killers" it just gets worse and worse.

I personally think the idea of a "non-politician" as being better is over-rated. We've seen a few examples of this and Trump is the latest and biggest one. It didn't go well.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I would have voted for Trump initially, with hind sight I would not vote for him. I am hungry for a political who is not a politician, not from that world. It would be a tough position to be in, not willing to vote for Hillary or Biden and yet no alternative and voting anything but the 2 parties is throwing your vote away. I think there is a desperation which has lead to some delusion as there was no one to vote for that held the same or similar values. I am hoping that any opportunity for Trump to run again next election is removed which in turn I think will help people move on knowing there is no hope to get him back in so that idea can just dissipate.


There is a huge establishment that works against any non-establishment figure being nominated as President. Trump was an anomaly in that he beat these guys at their own game. Any effort to prevent Trump from running again will be designed to prevent any outsider from running again. That gives you a talent pool that includes the likes of Jeb Bush and Joe Biden.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> There is a huge establishment that works against any non-establishment figure being nominated as President. Trump was an anomaly in that he beat these guys at their own game. Any effort to prevent Trump from running again will be designed to prevent any outsider from running again. That gives you a talent pool that includes the likes of Jeb Bush and Joe Biden.


Dangerous waters then, I would not want to stop that and would have to say it would be worth the risk by not closing it off from someone not inside the system already. Would not want Trump in office again but think preventing outsides is far worse.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> Dangerous waters then, I would not want to stop that and would have to say it would be worth the risk by not closing it off from someone not inside the system already. Would not want Trump in office again but think preventing outsides is far worse.


Trump was far, far from an outsider, make no mistake, but branding himself as one sure worked though!


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Dangerous waters then, I would not want to stop that and would have to say it would be worth the risk by not closing it off from someone not inside the system already. Would not want Trump in office again but think preventing outsides is far worse.


Look at the use of Superdelegates in the Democrat Party designed to derail the Sanders candidacy. I don't think Bernie would have made a good president, but I have little doubt that he should have won the nomination in 2016 at least.

Efforts are being made at the grassroots level of the Republican Party to ensure that people can elevate their own candidate to the presidential race — not vacuous party mouthpieces like Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio.


----------



## polywog

I feel that if the problems outside of the executive branch are fixed, then having someone like Trump becomes somewhat less of an issue.



Macfury said:


> Look at the use of Superdelegates in the Democrat Party designed to derail the Sanders candidacy. I don't think Bernie would have made a good president, but I have little doubt that he should have won the nomination in 2016 at least.


I thought Bernie was one of the more refreshing candidates. He felt somewhat detached from the establishment. An 'outsider' in some ways, but that has the political experience under his belt too.


----------



## groovetube

polywog said:


> I feel that if the problems outside of the executive branch are fixed, then having someone like Trump becomes somewhat less of an issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Bernie was one of the more refreshing candidates. He felt somewhat detached from the establishment. An 'outsider' in some ways, but that has the political experience under his belt too.


He was, and he would be a good ‘outsider’ as he also had the political experience as you said. But the democrats paid a proper price for that, and probably rightly so I think. So did Hilary it would seem.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> Trump was far, far from an outsider, make no mistake, but branding himself as one sure worked though!


Trump was involved in politics? That is what I meant by outsider, someone not in the political system as in a governor, mayor, senator, whatever. I am sure he had connections in government, I think any big business does. Either way, the idea of someone who did not speak PC or seemed to fall into that, was blunt and did not appear to be there to play the games the "experienced" politicians appear to be playing. I did not like the way he was going about it, I think you can do all that while still holding on to respect and maintaining a level of dignity, but the idea of any change from government as is was a hopeful one.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> Trump was involved in politics? That is what I meant by outsider, someone not in the political system as in a governor, mayor, senator, whatever. I am sure he had connections in government, I think any big business does. Either way, the idea of someone who did not speak PC or seemed to fall into that, was blunt and did not appear to be there to play the games the "experienced" politicians appear to be playing. I did not like the way he was going about it, I think you can do all that while still holding on to respect and maintaining a level of dignity, but the idea of any change from government as is was a hopeful one.


I think it depends on what your definition of ‘outsider’ really is. I never saw Trump as an outsider, at best, someone with little to no actual political experience, which to me is a detriment not an asset. Because he possessed all the trappings of a well connected super rich influential figure who can easily be described as ‘establishment’, that is, until it suited him to play the ‘outsider card’ to his benefit. Likely because he knew he had to find a way to differentiate himself from the others to even have a shot. Great branding work.

basically, all the qualities of what we hate in corrupt establishment politicians who take care of the rich and well connected but without the political experience.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Trump was involved in politics? That is what I meant by outsider, someone not in the political system as in a governor, mayor, senator, whatever. I am sure he had connections in government, I think any big business does. Either way, the idea of someone who did not speak PC or seemed to fall into that, was blunt and did not appear to be there to play the games the "experienced" politicians appear to be playing. I did not like the way he was going about it, I think you can do all that while still holding on to respect and maintaining a level of dignity, but the idea of any change from government as is was a hopeful one.


The original concept for the presidency, senators and representatives was they would be citizens seconded for four years to Washington, following which time they would return to their professions. The notion of a professional politician would have been the opposite of their intention.

Trump's own party made it difficult for him to promote any reform, because he was an outsider. His approach as a businessperson was to try to _solve _problems. The political approach is to _manage_ problems — create new government departments and infrastructure, new spending, new positions, new oversight. This is why establishment hacks like Bill Kristol hated Trump; he was actually attempting to make the reforms that they had been dangling like a carrot on a stick for decades.


----------



## polywog

Wasn't implying Trump was. What I meant was Bernie, more than any other candidate, felt like more of an outsider despite having been involved in politics. He felt like someone who was genuinely looking after the constituent's best interests, at least as far as how poorly policy works for most people. I preferred him as a candidate even if he wouldn't have won.



wonderings said:


> Either way, the idea of someone who did not speak PC or seemed to fall into that, was blunt and did not appear to be there to play the games the "experienced" politicians appear to be playing.


I think that last bit describes what I meant about Bernie... I didn't get a notion he was playing games. At any rate, we got 4 years of entirely different game playing, with lots of repercussions outside of policy. That's not entirely on Trump, what checks and balances should have been there weren't.


----------



## wonderings

polywog said:


> Wasn't implying Trump was. What I meant was Bernie, more than any other candidate, felt like more of an outsider despite having been involved in politics. He felt like someone who was genuinely looking after the constituent's best interests, at least as far as how poorly policy works for most people. I preferred him as a candidate even if he wouldn't have won.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that last bit describes what I meant about Bernie... I didn't get a notion he was playing games. At any rate, we got 4 years of entirely different game playing, with lots of repercussions outside of policy. That's not entirely on Trump, what checks and balances should have been there weren't.


Bernie definitely felt like an outside and someone who was not playing the political game. Some of his plans were incredibly costly and have no idea how he would pay for them, like free tuition for everyone as an example. Sounds great, who could be against it? I would love it if it were possible but where does all the money come from? He seems like a good guy with some kooky ideas that are nice in a utopic world but not realistic unless you love the idea of more and more debt.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Bernie definitely felt like an outside and someone who was not playing the political game. Some of his plans were incredibly costly and have no idea how he would pay for them, like free tuition for everyone as an example. Sounds great, who could be against it? I would love it if it were possible but where does all the money come from? He seems like a good guy with some kooky ideas that are nice in a utopic world but not realistic unless you love the idea of more and more debt.


I would never have voted for Sanders if I were an American. However, I believe that the candidacy was stolen from him by his own party. I think he was the rightful nominee for 2016 — and possibly for 2020.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> I would never have voted for Sanders if I were an American. However, I believe that the candidacy was stolen from him by his own party. I think he was the rightful nominee for 2016 — and possibly for 2020.


I would not have voted for him either if I was American, I just do not get the same slimy feel I get with the regular life long politicians.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I would not have voted for him either if I was American, I just do not get the same slimy feel I get with the regular life long politicians.


The impression you might get is that his intention was to deliver on his promises because they were his promises... not because they represented a backdoor to achieve some other goal.


----------



## polywog

wonderings said:


> I would love it if it were possible but where does all the money come from? He seems like a good guy with some kooky ideas that are nice in a utopic world but not realistic unless you love the idea of more and more debt.


I think part of the problem is some of his radical ideas required his other radical ideas to be reality, too.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I think part of the problem is some of his radical ideas required his other radical ideas to be reality, too.


But that bongo drum meme was pretty great:


----------



## polywog

If only they could mix in the Trump accordion it would be a concert worth seeing!


----------



## groovetube

I’d be interested in hearing what is so radical about Bernie’s platform. I know it’s a popular refrain, and he certainly seems like a radical, perhaps in America at least. But at the end of the day, what makes Bernie ‘radical’?

I see nothing in Trumps platform or actions that makes him a “problem solver”, he created more problems than he solved... that isn’t someone else’s fault... yet Bernie a radical. I guess it depends on what your opinion is on on various policies.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> I’d be interested in hearing what is so radical about Bernie’s platform. I know it’s a popular refrain, and he certainly seems like a radical, perhaps in America at least. But at the end of the day, what makes Bernie ‘radical’?
> 
> I see nothing in Trumps platform or actions that makes him a “problem solver”, he created more problems than he solved... that isn’t someone else’s fault... yet Bernie a radical. I guess it depends on what your opinion is on on various policies.


I think a lot of what he wanted to do would be considered radical. Free university/college for all, erasing 45 million peoples students loans (1.43 trillion dollars wiped clean), somehow made it so no one pays more then $200 a year on meds, 10 million affordable housing homes built by the government, free child care, eliminating 81 billion in medical debt, convert the entire countries energy to green energy, create 20 million jobs to solve climate change (not 20 million jobs period, 20 mill climate saving jobs), Giving 200 billion to the green climate fund, etc etc etc. 

A lot of this sounds great and would be amazing if it were realistic and did not include more and more taxes that would just get passed down to the little guy as taxing the big has them recoup by upping their prices. These all seem like radical ideas, and radical is not always a bad thing and I applaud people trying to think outside the box on how to fix things, I just don't see his solutions and ideas on where he is getting the trillions of dollars needed to be all that realistic.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> A lot of this sounds great and would be amazing if it were realistic and did not include more and more taxes that would just get passed down to the little guy as taxing the big has them recoup by upping their prices. These all seem like radical ideas, and radical is not always a bad thing and I applaud people trying to think outside the box on how to fix things, I just don't see his solutions and ideas on where he is getting the trillions of dollars needed to be all that realistic.


This the problem Margaret Thatcher rightly pointed to: "At some point you run out of 'other people's' money." Corporate taxes raise money only to the extent that the cost of those taxes are not reflected in the costs of goods and services. If you took ALL of the money owned by billionairs, it would fund the U..S. federal government for part of one year. All sales taxes are consumer taxes. Ultimately, every tax on "someone else" is borne by the middle class.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> If only they could mix in the Trump accordion it would be a concert worth seeing!


Symphony #1 for Accordion and Bongos.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I’d be interested in hearing what is so radical about Bernie’s platform. I know it’s a popular refrain, and he certainly seems like a radical, perhaps in America at least. But at the end of the day, what makes Bernie ‘radical’?
> 
> I see nothing in Trumps platform or actions that makes him a “problem solver”, he created more problems than he solved... that isn’t someone else’s fault... yet Bernie a radical. I guess it depends on what your opinion is on on various policies.


What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.


Exactly. In fact many of those ideas aren’t radical in many other countries either. Sure, there’s quite the list of items that Bernie preaches, but that doesn’t nessecarily mean all of those items will be realized.

I don’t recall anyone calling Trump radical when he announced that there would be beautiful cheap affordable healthcare for everyone, and that he would not only eliminate the deficit but pay down the debt. Because he’s a businessman and he knows how to make deals. Nor spend ridiculous amounts of money to build a wall that most rational people knew would do nothing really, and that Mexico would pay for it!

As I said, it depends on how one defines ‘radical’. I’d say doing many things that break with the status quo would be ‘radical’, interesting that trump supporters never thought trump ‘radical’. So perhaps ‘radical’ is simply ascribed to what one dislikes and/or disagrees with.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> I think part of the problem is some of his radical ideas required his other radical ideas to be reality, too.


Radical in that they require more money than the country generates to realize without impoverishing taxpayers. Not radical when you look at them against, say, the level of government spending in China.


----------



## groovetube

If they keep electing establishment types like Trump who hands off all the massive tax breaks to the ultra rich, they’ll never afford what every developed nation in the world besides them has, universal healthcare. I just shake my head every time I see one of those liars go off on how Canadians are coming enmasse to the US for healthcare and we’re all dying in waiting rooms.

Imagine being stupid enough to spout that.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I can imagine. In fact, I think I’ve heard something like that around here before. The problem with the USA and health care is that their capitalist system is so entrenched that they cannot fathom anything with a socialist basis, like Canada or the UK or most of the rest of the developed world. The idea that everyone needs access to reasonable healthcare as a function of being part of a country is baked in to the Canadian system and has been since the days of Tommy Douglas. It took a while, but unless you’re a libertarian, you get it. Everyone benefits. If you believe profit is necessary to run a health care system, then you get a system like America has. Very difficult to reform.


----------



## groovetube

I’m sure we’ll hear it again. And again. As if it makes it more true. Or maybe that they “know some experts personally”.

Bernie would have been a far better president than trump could hope to be. The democrats really screwed that one up.


----------



## Macfury

Yep, in Canada you get mediocre care at a slow pace of delivery at an ever increasing price, taking up an ever increasing percentage of government spending--but its benefits are all spread equally.

The U.S system is failing not because it is for profit, but because the government abets a system in which for-profit providers do not compete, and in which insurance provides are indifferent to price.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I can imagine. In fact, I think I’ve heard something like that around here before. The problem with the USA and health care is that their capitalist system is so entrenched that they cannot fathom anything with a socialist basis, like Canada or the UK or most of the rest of the developed world. The idea that everyone needs access to reasonable healthcare as a function of being part of a country is baked in to the Canadian system and has been since the days of Tommy Douglas. It took a while, but unless you’re a libertarian, you get it. Everyone benefits. If you believe profit is necessary to run a health care system, then you get a system like America has. Very difficult to reform.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yep, in Canada you get mediocre care at a slow pace of delivery at an ever increasing price, taking up an ever increasing percentage of government spending--but its benefits are all spread equally.
> 
> The U.S system is failing not because it is for profit, but because the government abets a system in which for-profit providers do not compete, and in which insurance provides are indifferent to price.


I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.


----------



## Macfury

How much do you pay, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> How much do you pay, Freddie?


Same as you, mf. It’s part of my taxes. I also have an excellent benefit plan with my employer, so that part can vary from person to person. But basic health care? Covered for every citizen in Canada regardless how much you make.


----------



## Macfury

So the answer is that you don't know how much you pay.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Same as you, mf. It’s part of my taxes. I also have an excellent benefit plan with my employer, so that part can vary from person to person. But basic health care? Covered for every citizen in Canada regardless how much you make.


----------



## groovetube

see? you can set your watch to it. The troll is on a roll again.

Notice how it pivoted fast from the nonsense it spewed about Canadian healthcare. Ted Cruz would be proud. Now it's badgering you about how much you pay. Waste of time, don't even bother engaging this idiot.

Boy, our private long term care homes were a hit here eh? Sooo many people going bankrupt from having a heart attack too, oh wait...

The stupidity is just breathtaking.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> What Americans think is radical would be pretty mainstream in Canada. Maybe just a little left of centre liberal, certainly not NDP.





Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t know which doctors you’ve been going to, but I get excellent health care for a reasonable price and so does my family and everyone I know. You’re talking out of your ass again, Macfury.


Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.


I think it's important not to confuse the issue here. This is a comparison to the for profit system in America. Where not only can you not get a doctor in many places but many people cannot afford one. And I have personally waited in their hospitals more than once and they also have 8 hour (and more) wait times. Its just waaaaaaaaay more expensive. This isn't about whether or not our system needs improvement. It sure does!

I say this because what gets lost here, is there can be no doubt that our health system needs improvement. Every country's system does, regardless of what it is or what one might think of it. Every developed nation has universal healthcare except the US, and the majority of their populations (including here) love having it and want it not only protected but improved.

What macfury shovelled out is the same nonsense right wing crap that cannot be backed up, and this whole thing just goes nowhere. Its better to focus on how to improve our current system rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater and try and imitate America's failure.


----------



## groovetube

Here's something these libertarian nitwits won't tell you:








The U.S. Spends $2,500 Per Person on Health Care Administrative Costs. Canada Spends $550. Here's Why


Researchers found that the U.S. now spends nearly five times more per person on health care administration than Canada does.




time.com





All you'll get is more trolling and whimpering about time magazine being a socialist rag. But it's pretty well known that US healthcare costs are way higher per person than here in Canada. Imagine if we tossed the right leaning liars from office who use lines like "privatizing will fix all!" like it it did for long term care here in Ontario... and guess who heavily invested in that, Mike Harris!! big surprise. Oh, and the current favourite, 'we'll go line by line to find savings!!!'. Another Ford numbskull passed off as a solution.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> see? you can set your watch to it. The troll is on a roll again.
> 
> Notice how it pivoted fast from the nonsense it spewed about Canadian healthcare. Ted Cruz would be proud. Now it's badgering you about how much you pay. Waste of time, don't even bother engaging this idiot.
> 
> Boy, our private long term care homes were a hit here eh? Sooo many people going bankrupt from having a heart attack too, oh wait...
> 
> The stupidity is just breathtaking.


No kidding. It’s so predictable: 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.


That has not been my experience, but I understand what you’re saying. I can also say when someone leaves a hospital in Canada, they are but saddled with bills for even basic care that would bankrupt them unless they can afford private health insurance. You seem to be deliberately downplaying the positive aspects of the Canadian healthcare system.


----------



## groovetube

there has been a problem with getting a GP here in Ontario, particularly in GTA area. The population density isn't helping, but provincial government after provincial government haven't really addressed this. I think it got better somewhat in the 2000s but never really addressed. Privatization will solve nothing and only drive costs up.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Are you talking a family doctor or a hospital? I know so many people who cannot get a family doctor as there are not enough of them so they are left going to walk in clinics when needed. Maybe this is just an Ontario thing, but the health care system is not all rosy here with the shortage of doctors. Hospitals are hit and miss as well and can have extreme wait times unless you are critical. Some people can spend 8 hours or more in a waiting room hoping to be seen by a nurse or doctor.


The "secret" to Canadian public healthcare is to attenuate wait and treatment times wherever possible to reduce costs to the government. It's health care rationing. So you get a mix of good and terrible service depending on where you fall on the government assessment scale.

I think the best example would be the availability of MRI scans. Waiting up to 10 months is not abnormal in Ontario. If you were to go across the border to Buffalo MRI, you could make an appointment in two days and leave with your MRI scan. Your doctor receives a report on the scan within 48 hours. You could buy that scan for US$500. There's your tradeoff.

Canadians in general have no idea what their health care costs them. In Ontario, more than 41 per cent of the province's budget is needed to maintain health care at these levels and the number continues to rise. We have no idea what individual services are costing, and no easy method for price discovery.

The provincial governments allow the medical associations to "set" the number of graduates that will be delivered into the system. That keeps supply low and demand always higher than the universities deliver. That's OK with the province who pays the doctors for the services they render. Note that if individual doctors start working longer hours, the Ministry of Health will put a cap on hours they can work. It's all part of attenuating services.

But yeah, health care is the same for everyone, except for the people with enough money to seek better care outside the border.


----------



## groovetube

Ah so now it's a conspiracy.

The troll never stops, nor provides any real facts. Just some nonsense that he and his libertarian fools made up. But I bet he "knows some doctors".


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> That has not been my experience, but I understand what you’re saying. I can also say when someone leaves a hospital in Canada, they are but saddled with bills for even basic care that would bankrupt them unless they can afford private health insurance. You seem to be deliberately downplaying the positive aspects of the Canadian healthcare system.


I am not deliberately downplaying anything. I am saying it is not perfect and has a lot of issues. With a doctor shortage service will go down. I was lucky enough to get a family doctor 12 years or so ago when I had a 2 week vacation at my local hospital when I found out I was a Type 1 diabetic. They found a doctor for me because of my condition and I am thankful for that, but I know others who have been on the hunt for years to find a spot with any doctor, good reviews or not. I am thankful for our hospitals, nurses and doctors but do recognize there are issues, and a shortage of doctors is a very big one.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I am not deliberately downplaying anything. I am saying it is not perfect and has a lot of issues. With a doctor shortage service will go down. I was lucky enough to get a family doctor 12 years or so ago when I had a 2 week vacation at my local hospital when I found out I was a Type 1 diabetic. They found a doctor for me because of my condition and I am thankful for that, but I know others who have been on the hunt for years to find a spot with any doctor, good reviews or not. I am thankful for our hospitals, nurses and doctors but do recognize there are issues, and a shortage of doctors is a very big one.


At least in Alberta, that’s a problem that’s going to get worse with the treatment of doctors by Kenney’s UCP government. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

I agree the doctor shortage is a real issue here in Ontario. But quoting useless stats on budget when we’ve had right wing or right wing ‘lite’ governments who constantly pander to corporations with huge tax cuts is going to only make the budget share worse.

in the states we’ve heard the conservatives clutching their pearls over the deficit, that is until Trump got in and handed the biggest tax smorgasbord to rich corporations in history skyrocketing the deficit way over a trillion but did you see them still clutching their pearls? Of course not. Now they want to slash ‘entitlements’ like social security and Medicaid. To give more billions to people like bezos!!

there has to be some sanity, and unfortunately there isn’t likely going to be any as long as there are those who just insist on flinging just horsesh!t around.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I am thankful for our hospitals, nurses and doctors but do recognize there are issues, and a shortage of doctors is a very big one.


But that doctor shortage is a feature of the system, not an oversight. Even at 41% of government spending, they still need to ration care over time.

Average wait time for an MRI in Toronto is two months. Average time in Buffalo, NY is two days. Take a look at the pricing schedule"





__





Pricing - Buffalo MRI






buffalomri.com





At those low prices, ask yourself why OHIP has never bused patients to Buffalo to speed up diagnostic services.


----------



## groovetube

I was just wondering why Canada’s wait times would be 30 times what the US is. If, it is indeed not longer than 2 months... Because according to the stats I found, America has 4 times the number of mri machines that Canada has per million(40 per million vs 10) but somehow, the wait times in Canada is as stated, 30 times the US, not 4 times as one would think. So, which healthcare system, is “attentuated” by design here??

interesting what one finds if you take a minute to check on something. Simple mathematics would tell a much different story than what macfury is trying to peddle.

The idea that the doctor shortage is a ‘feature’ seems to be a conspiracy theory without merit.

Unless there’s real proof of this, which, I’m not holding my breath for


----------



## groovetube

So while it continues to whisper pure nonsense about healthcare... who remembers the troll going off about the dominion machines... I sure do!

well, it turns out, Sidney Powell, the shrieking trumpster being sued by dominion voting machines for 1.3 billion, has now said that no reasonable person would believe what she said!

ha ha ha ha. “No reasonable person”. Couldn’t have said it better myself 😂


----------



## groovetube

Alright. So I made my point.

who thinks Cuomo should resign? I do.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> So while it continues to whisper pure nonsense about healthcare... who remembers the troll going off about the dominion machines... I sure do!
> 
> well, it turns out, Sidney Powell, the shrieking trumpster being sued by dominion voting machines for 1.3 billion, has now said that no reasonable person would believe what she said!
> 
> ha ha ha ha. “No reasonable person”. Couldn’t have said it better myself


Haha! Yeah I read that. Man, if even she can see through the bullish!t, what’s everyone else’s excuse? Especially troll-boy.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> So while it continues to whisper pure nonsense about healthcare... who remembers the troll going off about the dominion machines... I sure do!
> 
> well, it turns out, Sidney Powell, the shrieking trumpster being sued by dominion voting machines for 1.3 billion, has now said that no reasonable person would believe what she said!
> 
> ha ha ha ha. “No reasonable person”. Couldn’t have said it better myself


I don’t know a lot about Cuomo, but what I’ve learned so far does not sound good. I wonder how Chris is managing?


----------



## Macfury

I think he shouldn't resign. This looks like the lesser of two evils — a way to get him out of office before his cover up of COVID-19 nursing home deaths can be fully investigated.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don’t know a lot about Cuomo, but what I’ve learned so far does not sound good. I wonder how Chris is managing?


----------



## groovetube

Do you really think those women came forward with these allegations with the express purpose to help him get out of this investigation? That seems a little far fetched to me. Not to mention pretty dismissive of these crimes.

I think he should resign, and not get off the hook for the long term care home thing. There’s a lot of other politicians I can think of that should be nailed on that one as well. Starting right here in Ontario.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Do you really think those women came forward with these allegations with the express purpose to help him get out of this investigation? That seems a little far fetched to me. Not to mention pretty dismissive of these crimes.
> 
> I think he should resign, and not get off the hook for the long term care home thing. There’s a lot of other politicians I can think of that should be nailed on that one as well. Starting right here in Ontario.


Al Franken resigned over much less. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## groovetube

Well, I suppose not everyone sees sexual assault as something to be taken seriously, but rather as some sort of political bargaining chip.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Sad.


----------



## eMacMan

Macfury said:


> I think he shouldn't resign. This looks like the lesser of two evils — a way to get him out of office before his cover up of COVID-19 nursing home deaths can be fully investigated.


I'm not too concerned about the cover-up, that's pretty much business as usual for all upper level polieticians. As an aside, I note that none of the Kovid Kool-aid Klatch has the slightest concern about the TrueDopes post-SNC shenanigans.

I am concerned about learning whether he was the one directing hospitals to ship Covid patients off to LTC as soon as they were out of immediate danger. There was sufficient knowledge already available from China to classify the deaths that policy caused as deliberate homicides. If he played a part in that decision or was even partly responsible for keeping the policy in place when the devastation caused became obvious, he should be facing a jury.


----------



## groovetube

Nothing like some unsubstantiated conspiracy nonsense to start your Sunday to eh?

I have to chuckle at the flip flopping between “covid is a hoax” and “Trudope committing murder”. If you’re gonna make something up at least get your story straight 

man this is getting boring. Is there -anything- here that at least tries to follow some factual info? I know people like o hide behind the whole ‘it’s your opinion’ and the ever popular ehmac post it and it’s facts stuff but come on. No wonder no one participates.

Oh I know. Demanding actual facts is “abrasive”. We can’t have facts get in the way of some good farts can we?


----------



## Macfury

eMacMan said:


> I'm not too concerned about the cover-up, that's pretty much business as usual for all upper level polieticians.


It's simply a matter of which scandal the Democrat party wants to see covered. The New York State nursing home scandal would be far more damaging than allowing the emerging sexual harassment accusations to take all the air out of the room, and remove Cuomo before he can be investigated for the first as a sitting governor.


----------



## groovetube

I agree, it’s all a matter of perspective. Sometimes, all you have to do is make something up. Frame it a certain way, because it sounds good. It doesn’t matter if there isn’t a shred of anything that could possibly, actually support it. But hey, why not take serious sexual assault allegations from women and use it. It’s not like they should be taken seriously right? But when it comes to looking for a way to take a shot at something you don’t personally like, nothing is off the table. No level is too low to sink.

it is indeed, sad. Putting it mildly.

i was kinda wondering, what vertiscope’s client list would think of with advertising on a forum where overtly racist thread titles (given recent anti-Asian violence spikes) and this kind of low down sexism rampantly spewed here. This is, being offered as a ‘technology community’, not “I think these women might be making it up or are being used to help Cuomo” thing. Pretty sure most other forums wouldn’t allow any of it. For good reasons, regardless of what you may think of it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I agree, it’s all a matter of perspective. Sometimes, all you have to do is make something up. Frame it a certain way, because it sounds good. It doesn’t matter if there isn’t a shred of anything that could possibly, actually support it. But hey, why not take serious sexual assault allegations from women and use it. It’s not like they should be taken seriously right? But when it comes to looking for a way to take a shot at something you don’t personally like, nothing is off the table. No level is too low to sink.
> 
> it is indeed, sad. Putting it mildly.
> 
> i was kinda wondering, what vertiscope’s client list would think of with advertising on a forum where overtly racist thread titles (given recent anti-Asian violence spikes) and this kind of low down sexism rampantly spewed here. This is, being offered as a ‘technology community’, not “I think these women might be making it up or are being used to help Cuomo” thing. Pretty sure most other forums wouldn’t allow any of it. For good reasons, regardless of what you may think of it.


Can you imagine someone wanting to be a moderator here after the genie’s been out of the bottle for this many years?


----------



## Macfury

Sure, there are always petty dictators and woke hipsters who want the power to shut people up. They're a dime a dozen.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Can you imagine someone wanting to be a moderator here after the genie’s been out of the bottle for this many years?


----------



## groovetube

It just blames everyone else. It had 7 years to prove it could build a meaningful commiunity and all it can brag about is, “I have a web address”. If it’s not me it’ll go after someone else. What was its excuse for the last 7 years I wasn’t here??

personally I’d light a match on these threads, this is a technology site. Not some troll’s personal dumping ground.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It just blames everyone else. It had 7 years to prove it could build a meaningful commiunity and all it can brag about is, “I have a web address”. If it’s not me it’ll go after someone else. What was its excuse for the last 7 years I wasn’t here??
> 
> personally I’d light a match on these threads, this is a technology site. Not some troll’s personal dumping ground.


It would beg to disagree.


----------



## groovetube

Of course it would


----------



## groovetube

this is incredibly sad. The 'wedding singer'


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Marjorie Taylor Green claims the idea of vaccine passports are Biden’s “mark of the beast.” You can’t make this stuff up. 

 https://youtu.be/XtB1yvmo8sg


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> this is incredibly sad. The 'wedding singer'


What a self-absorbed little man. He can’t even humble himself to be happy for someone else AT THEIR WEDDING. The real question is, who invited him to speak?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Sure, there are always petty dictators and woke hipsters who want the power to shut people up. They're a dime a dozen.


I hear they can be found among the libertarian crowd as well.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Nothing like some unsubstantiated conspiracy nonsense to start your Sunday to eh?
> 
> I have to chuckle at the flip flopping between “covid is a hoax” and “Trudope committing murder”. If you’re gonna make something up at least get your story straight
> 
> man this is getting boring. Is there -anything- here that at least tries to follow some factual info? I know people like o hide behind the whole ‘it’s your opinion’ and the ever popular ehmac post it and it’s facts stuff but come on. No wonder no one participates.
> 
> Oh I know. Demanding actual facts is “abrasive”. We can’t have facts get in the way of some good farts can we?


And here we have a prime example example of GT logic. In the post immediately preceding this I posted: *"As an aside, I note that none of the Kovid Kool-aid Klatch has the slightest concern about the TrueDopes post-SNC shenanigans." From this GT manages to infer that I am accusing the TrueDope of committing murder. *

For those who lack the mental capacity to recall, the SNC Lavalin scandal revolved around the Trudope firing a cabinet member who refused to interfere with the judiciary, he then aggravated things by flat out lying and was caught red-faced (or was it brown faced?).

So anyways might as well do a little deductive reasoning as to what could cause such a massive brain fart on GTs part:
A) Let's write off brain damage due to excessive masking as this trait was evident long prior to mask mandates.
B) Most likely candidate seems to be PSTBI, Percussive Symbolic Traumatic Brain Injury. No doubt caused by repeatedly beating the drums of political correctness.
C) Cannabis, just because it's legal doesn't mean you can intelligently post after consuming copious quantities.
D) Just being a typical Liebarrel. Figures if he says someone said something, his Kovid Kool-aid Klan will actually believe it so. Perhaps he believes his Cannabis buds are too dumb to bother reading the immediately preceeding post?
E) B+C+D=E


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> I'm not too concerned about the cover-up, that's pretty much business as usual for all upper level polieticians. As an aside, I note that none of the Kovid Kool-aid Klatch has the slightest concern about the TrueDopes post-SNC shenanigans.
> 
> *I am concerned about learning whether he was the one directing hospitals to ship Covid patients off to LTC as soon as they were out of immediate danger.** There was sufficient knowledge already available from China to classify the deaths that policy caused as deliberate homicides. If he played a part in that decision or was even partly responsible for keeping the policy in place when the devastation caused became obvious, he should be facing a jury.*


I bolded your own post, just in case, you know? Did you perhaps forget what you posted? Or are you being deliberately obtuse? If Trudeau wasn't facing a jury for murder, or some charge reklated to the deaths in LTC homes, then what did you actually mean? You seemed to have completely forgotten your own words.



eMacMan said:


> And here we have a prime example example of GT logic. In the post immediately preceding this I posted: *"As an aside, I note that none of the Kovid Kool-aid Klatch has the slightest concern about the TrueDopes post-SNC shenanigans." From this GT manages to infer that I am accusing the TrueDope of committing murder. *
> 
> For those who lack the mental capacity to recall, the SNC Lavalin scandal revolved around the Trudope firing a cabinet member who refused to interfere with the judiciary, he then aggravated things by flat out lying and was caught red-faced (or was it brown faced?).
> 
> So anyways might as well do a little deductive reasoning as to what could cause such a massive brain fart on GTs part:
> A) Let's write off brain damage due to excessive masking as this trait was evident long prior to mask mandates.
> B) Most likely candidate seems to be PSTBI, Percussive Symbolic Traumatic Brain Injury. No doubt caused by repeatedly beating the drums of political correctness.
> C) Cannabis, just because it's legal doesn't mean you can intelligently post after consuming copious quantities.
> D) Just being a typical Liebarrel. Figures if he says someone said something, his Kovid Kool-aid Klan will actually believe it so. Perhaps he believes his Cannabis buds are too dumb to bother reading the immediately preceeding post?
> E) B+C+D=E


And here we have the real class act of *ehmac* on full display. The reason why so many good people, just finally gave up, and left. I recall another good member who left a number of years ago, because another member accused him of being a drug user, and the past owner just let it happen. And it continued to happen, and while trolls continued to take this place down, playing under the rules of civility until someone lost their cool, and boom, another member banned, people just gave it up. 

It was always someone else's fault. It's Groovetube's fault! He's "abrasive"! Facebook! yeah! that's it! Naw. It's right here folks, this, is why most reasonable finally just went, yeah, this is a waste of time. And it truly is. And that's too bad.

Enjoy your ghost town!


----------



## eMacMan

GT. Having already made yourself look foolish, I'm surprised you decided to double down on April Fools day.

To be really clear my post was in reference to a post by MF as to whether Governor Cuomo should resign. That is why the reference to the TrueDope was clearly prefaced as an aside, meaning it had no relation to the rest of my post.

That you chose to ignore that is a clear sign of SBS syndrome. Whether the cause be ABCDE or some other factor is of course open to debate, and I can't think of a better day for it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> GT. Having already made yourself look foolish, I'm surprised you decided to double down on April Fools day.
> 
> To be really clear my post was in reference to a post by MF as to whether Governor Cuomo should resign. That is why the reference to the TrueDope was clearly prefaced as an aside, meaning it had no relation to the rest of my post.
> 
> That you chose to ignore that is a clear sign of SBS syndrome. Whether the cause be ABCDE or some other factor is of course open to debate, and I can't think of a better day for it.


You have no concept of what civil discourse looks like. Have a nice day.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> You have no concept of what civil discourse looks like. Have a nice day.


'Twould seem that by your definition of Civil Discourse, it's OK for a member of the Kovid Kool-aid Klatch to claim I said something I did not say, but it's not OK for me to call them out on it. To keep things mercifully brief I did not call him out on several other inaccuracies, limiting myself only to the first one in his original post.

As always if GT wants civil discourse he could try leading by example.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Not sure if it’s political or not, but Derek Chauvin has been convicted on all three counts in the death of George Floyd. That’s one good thing at least. The sobering thing is that this probably wouldn’t have happened if someone hadn’t been ten feet away videoing the whole thing on their phone.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not sure if it’s political or not, but Derek Chauvin has been convicted on all three counts in the death of George Floyd. That’s one good thing at least. The sobering thing is that this probably wouldn’t have happened if someone hadn’t been ten feet away videoing the whole thing on their phone.


It is sad that that is peoples first reaction, whip out the phone and record rather than engage and help. I have not followed the case at all, only know the basics of the tragic event. I do wonder though if there was any influence for a guilty judgement by all the protests and pressure with todays racial tensions. I am not saying he is not guilty. Remarks came from a congresswoman I believe calling for more confrontation if a guilty verdict was not found. Can't remember the name but it was in the headlines probably everywhere. It is a scary thing to call for a verdict without hearing the evidence on both sides, without being open to have your mind changed if the evidence indeed supports a different story and reason behind the actions. I do hope that this leads to more accountability for police officers, but hopefully does not push to far over that they are scared to do their job for fear of it being deemed racist or anything else.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> It is sad that that is peoples first reaction, whip out the phone and record rather than engage and help. I have not followed the case at all, only know the basics of the tragic event. I do wonder though if there was any influence for a guilty judgement by all the protests and pressure with todays racial tensions. I am not saying he is not guilty. Remarks came from a congresswoman I believe calling for more confrontation if a guilty verdict was not found. Can't remember the name but it was in the headlines probably everywhere. It is a scary thing to call for a verdict without hearing the evidence on both sides, without being open to have your mind changed if the evidence indeed supports a different story and reason behind the actions. I do hope that this leads to more accountability for police officers, but hopefully does not push to far over that they are scared to do their job for fear of it being deemed racist or anything else.


Both Biden and Rep. Maxine Waters laid in on their verdicts before due process could take its course.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> It is sad that that is peoples first reaction, whip out the phone and record rather than engage and help. I have not followed the case at all, only know the basics of the tragic event. I do wonder though if there was any influence for a guilty judgement by all the protests and pressure with todays racial tensions. I am not saying he is not guilty. Remarks came from a congresswoman I believe calling for more confrontation if a guilty verdict was not found. Can't remember the name but it was in the headlines probably everywhere. It is a scary thing to call for a verdict without hearing the evidence on both sides, without being open to have your mind changed if the evidence indeed supports a different story and reason behind the actions. I do hope that this leads to more accountability for police officers, but hopefully does not push to far over that they are scared to do their job for fear of it being deemed racist or anything else.


I know that this could not have been easy for the 17 year old girl who video’d it, but thank God she did. The recording was incontrovertible proof, something one doesn’t easily get these days. There were other bystanders as well who were probably also scared to get involved lest they be next. I am certain they reached the right verdict and it’s about time a police officer was held accountable for his or her actions.


----------



## Macfury

No single video provides "incontrovertible proof". They are evidence.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No single video provides "incontrovertible proof". They are evidence.


Disagree. In this case the murder was pretty obvious. Why do you think the jury came to a unanimous decision so quickly? If it weren’t for the video (from ten feet away mind you) he probably would have been acquitted. Look at Rodney King’s beating. Also video’d but from far enough away that the actions weren’t as clear to see.


----------



## Macfury

A video shows certain things--but not everything. Shortening a length of video footage or changing the framing can alter its meaning. It may be an important piece of evidence, but it is not, on its own, incontrovertible.


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> Disagree. In this case the murder was pretty obvious.


Given only the video, I couldn't tell you if it's manslaughter or murder. Not saying someone can't, but I wouldn't be able to. From what I know from Law & Order, pretty sure you need context to make the distinction. So I'd say, no, it's not pretty obvious.

It's strong evidence of something. And its existence probably helped get this to court.


----------



## wonderings

polywog said:


> Given only the video, I couldn't tell you if it's manslaughter or murder. Not saying someone can't, but I wouldn't be able to. From what I know from Law & Order, pretty sure you need context to make the distinction. So I'd say, no, it's not pretty obvious.
> 
> It's strong evidence of something. And its existence probably helped get this to court.


Context is everything and things that could be going on behind the camera, there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account. Again I make no claims of an unjust verdict, speaking to the idea of a video being enough to give a verdict on. 

I would not want to be a police officer in the US right now, you really can't do anything right in the eyes of the media. Read yesterday about an officer who shot a 14 year old girl (think that was her age, it was young). The headlines talk about it being before the verdict from this trial seemingly to try and connect it with police once again killing an innocent person. The article goes on to talk about the girl who was shot having a knife, trying to stab someone else and not listening to the officer as she goes to stab someone. It is so easy to sit on the side lines and say what they should have done after the moment but when in that moment it is a whole other thing. Now if he had not shot her and tried to tase her but it did not stop her and she stabbed and killed the other girl, or simply he did not try anything physical at all to stop her and she killed the other there would be an outcry on why no action was taken.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> Context is everything and things that could be going on behind the camera, there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account. Again I make no claims of an unjust verdict, speaking to the idea of a video being enough to give a verdict on.
> 
> I would not want to be a police officer in the US right now, you really can't do anything right in the eyes of the media. Read yesterday about an officer who shot a 14 year old girl (think that was her age, it was young). The headlines talk about it being before the verdict from this trial seemingly to try and connect it with police once again killing an innocent person. The article goes on to talk about the girl who was shot having a knife, trying to stab someone else and not listening to the officer as she goes to stab someone. It is so easy to sit on the side lines and say what they should have done after the moment but when in that moment it is a whole other thing. Now if he had not shot her and tried to tase her but it did not stop her and she stabbed and killed the other girl, or simply he did not try anything physical at all to stop her and she killed the other there would be an outcry on why no action was taken.


I saw some of the body cam footage from that one as well. She was definitely coming with a knife at the other person. This was definitely a more complicated situation and there were many people involved.


----------



## Macfury

And yet, some news outlets changed the framing of the bodycam footage so that the viewer could not see this properly.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I saw some of the body cam footage from that one as well. She was definitely coming with a knife at the other person. This was definitely a more complicated situation and there were many people involved.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> And yet, some news outlets changed the framing of the bodycam footage so that the viewer could not see this properly.


That’s on them then. Every news agency has its own perspective and bias. That’s why I like to look at a number of sources before I make up my mind. This one was definitely not cut and dried.


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> That’s on them then. Every news agency has its own perspective and bias. That’s why I like to look at a number of sources before I make up my mind. This one was definitely not cut and dried.


People generally drink up whatever they listen to if it is from the source they deem the right one because it matches their ideological viewpoint. That is what is scary about thew news, it is all really just biased opinion pieces for the most part.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> People generally drink up whatever they listen to if it is from the source they deem the right one because it matches their ideological viewpoint. That is what is scary about thew news, it is all really just biased opinion pieces for the most part.


Yes and no. There are facts and there are opinions. There’s nothing wrong with having editorials, like Rex Murphy or Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow. But there also needs to be factual section, that which we call “news.” Trump coined the “fake news” term just to muddy the waters, but I would call a lot of what Fox News reports fake news, especially the editorials. Back in my day, fake news would have been the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News with it’s coverage of bat-boy. Those ones were obviously a spoof. Today, it’s cherry picking the sources you like, like you say.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> People generally drink up whatever they listen to if it is from the source they deem the right one because it matches their ideological viewpoint. That is what is scary about thew news, it is all really just biased opinion pieces for the most part.


I think it's the brazen nature of the lying that is the most shocking to me. In many cases, a lie is told deliberately to forward a particular agenda. then later retracted in such a way that the damage has already been done. There's no shame because the role of the news appears to be to shape public opinion--not inform it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Can video evidence be incontrovertible? The jury certainly seemed to think so. 



> Mr. Mitchell said he had never watched the entire bystander video of the May 25 arrest of Mr. Floyd. In it, Mr. Chauvin can be seen kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck as Mr. Floyd said he couldn’t breathe, called for his mother, and eventually lost consciousness. He said video—especially the body camera footage from the four officers involved in the arrest—was the most powerful evidence in the trial. He eventually had to stop watching as videos were played again and again. Video clips were played 166 times, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.


Interesting. 

Derek Chauvin Juror: ‘We All Agreed at Some Point That It Was Too Much’ — The Wall Street Journal


----------



## polywog

Freddie_Biff said:


> I know that this could not have been easy for the 17 year old girl who video’d it, but thank God she did. _The recording was incontrovertible proof_, something one doesn’t easily get these days.





> He said video—_especially the body camera footage from the four officers involved in the arrest_—was the most powerful evidence in the trial.


The jury doesn't seem to agree with you 

I feel that if it weren't for her video, this may not have gone to trial. But it took lots of evidence to get them to arrive at the verdict.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> ...f it weren't for her video, this may not have gone to trial. But it took lots of evidence to get them to arrive at the verdict.


Exactly.


----------



## groovetube

Only on ehmac, could there be an argument about whether the video was “incontrovertible proof”, or “the most powerful evidence in the trial”.

seriously.


----------



## Macfury

polywog said:


> The jury doesn't seem to agree with you
> 
> I feel that if it weren't for her video, this may not have gone to trial. But it took lots of evidence to get them to arrive at the verdict.


I like this analysis of visual evidence:



> Images alone are never enough. Social narratives dictate what we permit ourselves to see. “Even the most ‘obvious’ and condemning video evidence is subject to reinterpretation and reforming by skilled legal professionals,” wrote Forrest Stuart, now an associate professor of sociology at Stanford University, in the journal _Law & Social Inquiry, _in 2011 after analyzing the use of video evidence in King’s trial_. _The notion of “objective, unambiguous, or unbiased” video, he argues, is a myth.








Constructing Police Abuse after Rodney King: How Skid Row Residents and the Los Angeles Police Department Contest Video Evidence on JSTOR


This ethnographic article explores the manner in which the Los Angeles Community Action Network (LACAN), a grassroots organization made up of homeless and low-i...




www.jstor.org


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Only on ehmac, could there be an argument about whether the video was “incontrovertible proof”, or “the most powerful evidence in the trial”.
> 
> seriously.


Exactly.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly.


So embarrassing.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> So embarrassing.


And the hits just keep coming!


----------



## Macfury

Just pick yourself up and try again... maybe the blows will stop,



Freddie_Biff said:


> And the hits just keep coming!


----------



## groovetube

so, wow. So far we have how sad it is that a 17 year old girl only took a video and didn't "do something" even though well there were a bunch of cops one actively engaged in killing someone, although if one read the story they'd know there was intervention attempted but no, and then another pair actively trolling another over what, something about the video being proof or not really but maybe.... we don't know. Does anyone understand just how silly this looks? Really? This, is "reasonable discussion"? This sort of trolling? Come on... The response is always my pointing out the obvious is the trolling. And that, is why this place became a ghost town. People pointing it out, and just leaving.

To a casual observer wondering if there's anything intelligent to participate in, it's like, nope. big NOPE. Nice work macfury!!! Carry on, I guess.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> so, wow. So far we have how sad it is that a 17 year old girl only took a video and didn't "do something" even though well there were a bunch of cops one actively engaged in killing someone, although if one read the story they'd know there was intervention attempted but no, and then another pair actively trolling another over what, something about the video being proof or not really but maybe.... we don't know. Does anyone understand just how silly this looks? Really? This, is "reasonable discussion"? This sort of trolling? Come on... The response is always my pointing out the obvious is the trolling. And that, is why this place became a ghost town. People pointing it out, and just leaving.
> 
> To a casual observer wondering if there's anything intelligent to participate in, it's like, nope. big NOPE. Nice work macfury!!! Carry on, I guess.


Deniers gonna deny. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

It’s obvious trolling, and then the whispering with another member, it’s sooooo childish.

there’s a lot going on in US politics, but this is what he chooses to do. I asked a number of past members of they wanted to join in and it’s one look at this stupidity and NOPE.

insanity is, well you know.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I like this analysis of visual evidence:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constructing Police Abuse after Rodney King: How Skid Row Residents and the Los Angeles Police Department Contest Video Evidence on JSTOR
> 
> 
> This ethnographic article explores the manner in which the Los Angeles Community Action Network (LACAN), a grassroots organization made up of homeless and low-i...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org


I think it goes without saying that images and video can be manipulated to produce a certain result. Which part of the on-the-street-no-pauses video from ten feet away by the 17 year old in Minnesota of the death of George Floyd while in police custody with a knee on his neck did you find to be ambiguous or inconclusive?


----------



## wonderings

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think it goes without saying that images and video can be manipulated to produce a certain result. Which part of the on-the-street-no-pauses video from ten feet away by the 17 year old in Minnesota of the death of George Floyd while in police custody with a knee on his neck did you find to be ambiguous or inconclusive?


I think what can be missing from a video is context. I have not seen the video, I do not like to watch people dying or being executed and I am defending the officer, more the point. The video is one element but it is not all. Could there be things outside of the videos recording that could have officers on edge or distracted trying to keep a man down to arrest while externally things are progressing that has his attention as well. These are probably poor reasons but there could be a variety of factors and circumstances that makes an officer act/react in a certain way. I think you need more than just a video, as black and white as it may appear, you need a broader understanding of the situation. I would imagine that was all looked at in court and would like to be able to trust the legal system to take all the evidence from the situation at hand to get to the conclusion they got to.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> I think what can be missing from a video is context. I have not seen the video, I do not like to watch people dying or being executed and I am defending the officer, more the point. The video is one element but it is not all. Could there be things outside of the videos recording that could have officers on edge or distracted trying to keep a man down to arrest while externally things are progressing that has his attention as well. These are probably poor reasons but there could be a variety of factors and circumstances that makes an officer act/react in a certain way. I think you need more than just a video, as black and white as it may appear, you need a broader understanding of the situation. I would imagine that was all looked at in court and would like to be able to trust the legal system to take all the evidence from the situation at hand to get to the conclusion they got to.


My main concern about the guilty verdict would be if fear that the Burn, Loot & Murder gang would go on a rampage entered into the equation.


----------



## wonderings

eMacMan said:


> My main concern about the guilty verdict would be if fear that the Burn, Loot & Murder gang would go on a rampage entered into the equation.


That is definitely a big issue. There was a lot of social pressure and presumed guilt before the trial even started. This is a scary thing when guilt is determined by social media and not the truth. I still hope and believe that this was not the case here and justice has been served for the sake of justice and not revenge.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> I think what can be missing from a video is context. I have not seen the video, I do not like to watch people dying or being executed and I am defending the officer, more the point. The video is one element but it is not all. Could there be things outside of the videos recording that could have officers on edge or distracted trying to keep a man down to arrest while externally things are progressing that has his attention as well. These are probably poor reasons but there could be a variety of factors and circumstances that makes an officer act/react in a certain way. I think you need more than just a video, as black and white as it may appear, you need a broader understanding of the situation. I would imagine that was all looked at in court and would like to be able to trust the legal system to take all the evidence from the situation at hand to get to the conclusion they got to.


I’m pretty certain they looked at all of the evidence, but in the end, if there hadn’t been video evidence, Derek Chauvin might very well have got off. This was not like the Rodney King video from years ago. This was high resolution and close up. George Floyd was already in custody with his hand behind his back. A knee to the neck was not necessary nor was it protocol. If you ever do see the video, even part of it, you’ll see what I mean. Chauvin has no defence for his actions.


----------



## Macfury

Of course he had a defence for his actions. That's why there was a trial.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Chauvin has no defence for his actions.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Of course he had a defence for his actions. That's why there was a trial.


And that’s why he was found guilty. On all three counts. If he had a defence it was a pretty sh!tty one. Hair-splitter.


----------



## polywog

Due process is hair-splitting?

I feel the point is he was found guilty, on all three counts _in a court of law, _based on substantial evidence, not declared guilty by social media based on a video clip that was circulated.


----------



## wonderings

Only on account of this thread did I watch this Ben Shapiro video. Seems like there is more then enough there for some reasonable doubt. 






I think Shapiro pointed out a few reasonable doubts in this case and don't think he was trying to proclaim innocence, just that it is not as cut and dry as it seems.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> And that’s why he was found guilty. On all three counts. If he had a defence it was a pretty sh!tty one. Hair-splitter.


I don’t think anyone actually read your post Freddie. No where did I see you suggest the video was the only evidence at trial, nor did you suggest the defendant shouldn’t have due process. These posters will make up anything to fight it seems. And now I see the blindingly stupid suggestion that it was a ‘social media video’. It was evidence at a trial you nitwit. Anyway, macfury is merely trolling you with his useless posts. As usual. I think those that suggest this rare guilty verdict is because the jury was afraid of violent reprisals should consider the facts before spewing stupidity, and perhaps offers even a shred of evidence. But we won’t will we…

another useless ehmac tussle no reasonable person wants to participate in!

Good job macfury!


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> I don’t think anyone actually read your post Freddie. No where did I see you suggest the video was the only evidence at trial, nor did you suggest the defendant shouldn’t have due process. These posters will make up anything to fight it seems. And now I see the blindingly stupid suggestion that it was a ‘social media video’. It was evidence at a trial you nitwit. Anyway, macfury is merely trolling you with his useless posts. As usual. I think those that suggest this rare guilty verdict is because the jury was afraid of violent reprisals should consider the facts before spewing stupidity, and perhaps offers even a shred of evidence. But we won’t will we…
> 
> another useless ehmac tussle no reasonable person wants to participate in!
> 
> Good job macfury!


What was said was that "The recording was incontrovertible proof, something one doesn’t easily get these days." To me it does not sound so cut and dry from the accounts in the Shapiro video. I think this is where the discussion went on the merits of video alone. The discussion has been pretty civil lately, opposing views without the name calling. Would be nice if we could keep it that way.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I don’t think anyone actually read your post Freddie. No where did I see you suggest the video was the only evidence at trial, nor did you suggest the defendant shouldn’t have due process. These posters will make up anything to fight it seems. And now I see the blindingly stupid suggestion that it was a ‘social media video’. It was evidence at a trial you nitwit. Anyway, macfury is merely trolling you with his useless posts. As usual. I think those that suggest this rare guilty verdict is because the jury was afraid of violent reprisals should consider the facts before spewing stupidity, and perhaps offers even a shred of evidence. But we won’t will we…
> 
> another useless ehmac tussle no reasonable person wants to participate in!
> 
> Good job macfury!


I think you’re right. Sometimes it’s fun to watch people squirm tho.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

wonderings said:


> What was said was that "The recording was incontrovertible proof, something one doesn’t easily get these days." To me it does not sound so cut and dry from the accounts in the Shapiro video. I think this is where the discussion went on the merits of video alone. The discussion has been pretty civil lately, opposing views without the name calling. Would be nice if we could keep it that way.


That’s because a certain Albertan hasn’t entered the fray. I agree, it’s good to be able to talk about issues without resorting to insults.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> What was said was that "The recording was incontrovertible proof, something one doesn’t easily get these days." To me it does not sound so cut and dry from the accounts in the Shapiro video. I think this is where the discussion went on the merits of video alone. The discussion has been pretty civil lately, opposing views without the name calling. Would be nice if we could keep it that way.





Freddie_Biff said:


> I think you’re right. Sometimes it’s fun to watch people squirm tho.


Then they start whining about civility after they spend a couple pages clearly trolling you. I mean come on! It's obvious to anyone observing. Because nothing they've gone after you for was ever in your post. Then they keep it up, even if you try to clarify your post. It doesn't matter. I merely pointed out the very obvious. And they don't like it is all. They prefer to just keep trolling without being called out on it is all. Free speech, but only if they like it!!! Civility!!! Wasn't it macfury that whined that only weak kneed people go to the Shang because they won't be confronted? HA HA HA HA HA. Let the whimpering commence...

Then they scratch their heads wondering why there aren't more people here participating.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> What was said was that "The recording was incontrovertible proof, something one doesn’t easily get these days." To me it does not sound so cut and dry from the accounts in the Shapiro video. I think this is where the discussion went on the merits of video alone. The discussion has been pretty civil lately, opposing views without the name calling. Would be nice if we could keep it that way.


So you slice out a piece of his post, twist to mean something else to fit your ability to attack it, hmmmm. Yeah Ive seen this before. And then post something incredibly dumb like, one of the most import pieces of evidence at that trial, as what was you called it? Oh right. "a social media video'.

Come on man lets get real. If I was in person with people and someone made a statement like that, the mocking and jeers wouldn't only come from myself that's for sure. mIt couldn't be more ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as those trying to paint this guilty verdict which is rare! as the jury being afraid of violence. It just defies description.,..

then macfury comes in with a cherry picked thing from an article one has to pay a subscription to access, and twists Freddie's post on defence for even further trolling. So. Where is this so civil discussion going? How long do you think twisting and trolling someone's posts continue until someone finally speaks out?

Sure, civility is good, but it's a two way street. I don't see anything civil about a couple other members here either. What would be nice, if people to engage far less in trolling. Period. When trolling is allowed in threads, that's when people flee. And that's been the problem here for years, and no moderator etc has really ever been allowed to deal with it. There was a brief hope there, but when that was canned, that's when everyone fled this place.

So, in short, it would be nice if people stopped trolling if they wanted more civil discussion.


----------



## eMacMan

wonderings said:


> Only on account of this thread did I watch this Ben Shapiro video. Seems like there is more then enough there for some reasonable doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Shapiro pointed out a few reasonable doubts in this case and don't think he was trying to proclaim innocence, just that it is not as cut and dry as it seems.


Knowing that George Floyd was having trouble breathing before the ground sequence, brings us back to asking; What role did fear of the response of the Burn Loot & Murder gang play in the verdict?

OTOH I was not really able to tell from that footage whether his knee was on the shoulder or the neck.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> So you slice out a piece of his post, twist to mean something else to fit your ability to attack it, hmmmm. Yeah Ive seen this before. And then post something incredibly dumb like, one of the most import pieces of evidence at that trial, as what was you called it? Oh right. "a social media video'.
> 
> Come on man lets get real. If I was in person with people and someone made a statement like that, the mocking and jeers wouldn't only come from myself that's for sure. mIt couldn't be more ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as those trying to paint this guilty verdict which is rare! as the jury being afraid of violence. It just defies description.,..
> 
> then macfury comes in with a cherry picked thing from an article one has to pay a subscription to access, and twists Freddie's post on defence for even further trolling. So. Where is this so civil discussion going? How long do you think twisting and trolling someone's posts continue until someone finally speaks out?
> 
> Sure, civility is good, but it's a two way street. I don't see anything civil about a couple other members here either. What would be nice, if people to engage far less in trolling. Period. When trolling is allowed in threads, that's when people flee. And that's been the problem here for years, and no moderator etc has really ever been allowed to deal with it. There was a brief hope there, but when that was canned, that's when everyone fled this place.
> 
> So, in short, it would be nice if people stopped trolling if they wanted more civil discussion.


You seem to be the only one on an attack at the moment. What did I twist from that post? The discussion has been civil up till your posts and it seems all your posts end up the same calling people names and trolls. I think you missed the point on social media aspect. It was not about the video but about the masses declaring guilt before the trial was over on social media. Social media has plenty of influence in our world today. I am not saying it had an impact on this specific trial but would not be surprised as it is hard to not know anything about the event going in as a juror. Just as it was difficult finding a jury for the OJ Simpson trial. They do their best to get the most unbiased people as possible.

You seem to keep using civility requires from both sides, which I agree with but I have not seen name calling or anything of the sort in a while now from anyone but you. Not sure what trolling is going on, seems to simply be someone who holds a difference of opinion and that is not trolling.


----------



## groovetube

What did you twist???? I seriously just explained it, probably twice! You wonder why people get frustrated? You never read freddies post at all, quite clearly made crap up and then dug in your heels. And now the Ben Shapiro stuff, you've got.... to be kidding me.

If that ain't trolling, I don't know what is. As far as being civil, macfury is the one to call it here. He jeered at those who only wish to hang at the Shang thread. Mainly though because he isn't allowed to go in there and troll people and wind people up.

If you're going to be obtuse, and spend your posts winding people up and trolling, it's pure cowardice to complain about civility afterwards. Don't like it? Don't troll then. Thats been the hallmark here for years. People posting ultra inflammatory nonsense to be obtuse, dig in because its winding some one up, and then cry civility! if someone gets frustrated and calls them out.

Over, and over, and over again. Gee I wonder why no one else participates here? I wasn't here 7 years and it only got worse, so dont look at me!


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> What did you twist???? I seriously just explained it, probably twice! You wonder why people get frustrated? You never read freddies post at all, quite clearly made crap up and then dug in your heels. And now the Ben Shapiro stuff, you've got.... to be kidding me.
> 
> If that ain't trolling, I don't know what is. As far as being civil, macfury is the one to call it here. He jeered at those who only wish to hang at the Shang thread. Mainly though because he isn't allowed to go in there and troll people and wind people up.
> 
> If you're going to be obtuse, and spend your posts winding people up and trolling, it's pure cowardice to complain about civility afterwards. Don't like it? Don't troll then. Thats been the hallmark here for years. People posting ultra inflammatory nonsense to be obtuse, dig in because its winding some one up, and then cry civility! if someone gets frustrated and calls them out.
> 
> Over, and over, and over again. Gee I wonder why no one else participates here? I wasn't here 7 years and it only got worse, so dont look at me!


Have a great day.


----------



## groovetube

wonderings said:


> Have a great day.


You as well.

it just would be so much better if the level of inflammatory windups were lower. Perhaps then an actual discussion could happen. But I suspect someone here (macfury) gets cranky if one tries to take a more factual non partisan position as that’s much harder to wind up.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> You as well.
> 
> it just would be so much better if the level of inflammatory windups were lower. Perhaps then an actual discussion could happen. But I suspect someone here (macfury) gets cranky if one tries to take a more factual non partisan position as that’s much harder to wind up.


You seem to be the only one getting wound up. Anyways no point in discussing it with you when you label myself a troll. I hope you put your intimate knowledge of peoples motives to good use.


----------



## groovetube

see, now look at your reply, it's a two way street. Do you see how this goes? You probably think your posts weren't inflammatory, that you're being civil. "It's the other guy!" and on it goes, seemingly, without any agreement or resolution. I simply called out what was an obvious pile on of trolling on one member. But my opinion is, the tone has been set here a long time ago, and it just continues. Perhaps you're not even aware of how you, or I, or someone else here is trolling. But, its the way here. It's almost, expected now. No one here would ever survive a well moderated forum. The trolling would be dealt with right away. I can see why a certain someone really doesn't want a moderator here, or certainly someone in his corner at least. But the lack of moderation also allows someone to call out the trolling. A bit of a consequence I guess.


----------



## wonderings

groovetube said:


> see, now look at your reply, it's a two way street. Do you see how this goes? You probably think your posts weren't inflammatory, that you're being civil. "It's the other guy!" and on it goes, seemingly, without any agreement or resolution. I simply called out what was an obvious pile on of trolling on one member. But my opinion is, the tone has been set here a long time ago, and it just continues. Perhaps you're not even aware of how you, or I, or someone else here is trolling. But, its the way here. It's almost, expected now. No one here would ever survive a well moderated forum. The trolling would be dealt with right away. I can see why a certain someone really doesn't want a moderator here, or certainly someone in his corner at least. But the lack of moderation also allows someone to call out the trolling. A bit of a consequence I guess.


I have not called anyone names, called them dumb, ridiculous or trolls. I can accept people have a difference of opinion and view a situation differently. I do not always understand why but I can respect when you can talk with respect. Yes that does go both ways, I am discussing this with you now and you seem to spend more time explaining how and why you post the way you do. 
Trolling by the urban dictionaries definition is "The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet". Very presumptuous to know why people are posting what they are. I would be very aware if I was deliberately, cleverly (if that was possible, and secretly trying to piss people off". That speaks of intent. Now maybe you define it differently, but I think it is safe to say that the definition I posted is probably the most widely accepted definition of this internet slang. Personally I see no need for moderators for a thread like this, we are adults and you are free and able to ignore someone so you never have to see their posts again. Personally I have no trouble reading things that do not agree with my view. I try to be open and to see from both sides. But I am a troll according to you and have dug my heels in because I have either misunderstood what you have said or you did not say it in a succinct way. It again appears to me that everyone who disagrees with you is either a troll or dumb according to you and if they cannot understand it they are not deserving of even a discussion. So what is the point of a discussion if it is just going to go down this road?


----------



## groovetube

So is that your bar? You can say anything that would likely inflame or piss someone off, but as long as you stop just short of calling someone a nitwit, that's all civil discussion? Really?

My definition of civil discussion involves far more respect than simple name calling. I watched Freddie as he posted, and posted again to clarify, constantly being twisted and trolled. I dont have his patience perhaps. But even your definition of troll, covers about 90% of the posts I see here, and is likely the number one reason I, or most other past and present members refuse to bother coming in here.

Macfury doesn't want moderation here, because if someone was a really good moderator form another place ran it, he or many of the posts I see here wouldn't survive. Most other places Ive seen won't tolerate this crap. And for good reason. This threads ghost town existence, is proof. Its not the first time this threads failure to gain civil discussion has been blamed on me. As I said, I left for 7 years, and it only got worse and everyone left. When this sort of normalized trolling is continually allowed, it just kills forums. Ive watched it happen here, and a few other places. They just become ghost towns.

But, at least this place has a 'web address'!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Knowing that George Floyd was having trouble breathing before the ground sequence, brings us back to asking; What role did fear of the response of the Burn Loot & Murder gang play in the verdict?
> 
> OTOH I was not really able to tell from that footage whether his knee was on the shoulder or the neck.


Seriously? Everyone else who watched the same video could tell. The jury sure could tell. They were 11-1 from the get-go for a finding of guilty.

As for the trolling, yeah, it’s gotten pretty bad over the years, especially with FeXL, who has been thankfully laying low for most of the past year. I guess I’d just gotten used to it, and that’s not really a good thing. If we can all keep discussions civil, that would be nice. No, Macfury, it is not your right to wind people up. All of us have opinions and we’d all like to be heard without being mocked.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Seriously? Everyone else who watched the same video could tell. The jury sure could tell. *They were 11-1 from the get-go for a finding of guilty.*


It's that from the get go part that has me concerned. If the verdict was based on the evidence presented that's one thing, if it was fear of retribution that's entirely something else.

Had I been on that jury and learned he was having breathing difficulty before he was put on the pavement, and that at autopsy the coroner could equally have ruled drug overdose, I would ignore the kneeling evidence entirely. Remember those two tidbits came not from Ben Shapiro, but from prosecution witnesses. I would be concentrating on whether Chauvin's actions delayed or prevented Floyd from getting proper treatment for a drug overdose, and whether those actions were a deliberate attempt to kill.


----------



## groovetube

Well, I for one am glad the jury didn’t consider the ridiculous opinion piece by Ben Shapiro, and instead focused on the evidence presented.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Seriously? Everyone else who watched the same video could tell. The jury sure could tell. They were 11-1 from the get-go for a finding of guilty.
> 
> As for the trolling, yeah, it’s gotten pretty bad over the years, especially with FeXL, who has been thankfully laying low for most of the past year. I guess I’d just gotten used to it, and that’s not really a good thing. If we can all keep discussions civil, that would be nice. No, Macfury, it is not your right to wind people up. All of us have opinions and we’d all like to be heard without being mocked.


Well it’s fun to troll, isn’t it. Obviously the jury and everyone else can tell watching the video. But he’ll double down.

if there really is real evidence of any sort that’s credible enough to throw doubt on the conviction, his lawyers will be on that for an appeal pretty fast, so all the trolling on a forum and opinion pieces is worth… nothing.

as for macfury, everyone, well most who left knows the guy is a troll. Why else wouldn’t he want moderation? The pathetic attempts at trolling is just really tiring. He can turn that around at any time.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Well it’s fun to troll, isn’t it. Obviously the jury and everyone else can tell watching the video. But he’ll double down.
> 
> if there really is real evidence of any sort that’s credible enough to throw doubt on the conviction, his lawyers will be on that for an appeal pretty fast, so all the trolling on a forum and opinion pieces is worth… nothing.
> 
> as for macfury, everyone, well most who left knows the guy is a troll. Why else wouldn’t he want moderation? The pathetic attempts at trolling is just really tiring. He can turn that around at any time.


It takes a lot to convict a cop of either manslaughter or murder. Chauvin was convicted of both. Makes one think that perhaps the evidence presented was, oh, I dunno...what’s the word.......incontrovertible.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> It takes a lot to convict a cop of either manslaughter or murder. Chauvin was convicted of both. Makes one think that perhaps the evidence presented was, oh, I dunno...what’s the word.......incontrovertible.


Yeah but the expert witness testimonies weren’t media personalities like Ben Shapiro. That’s what gets people’s attention now it seems. People fall for that sort of cherry picked spin, to be fair on both sides of the arguments.

speaking of media personalities, did you see some of the latest gems out of Tucker Carlson?

I find it a sad day when media personalities are held up above real evidence and facts.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Yeah but the expert witness testimonies weren’t media personalities like Ben Shapiro. That’s what gets people’s attention now it seems. People fall for that sort of cherry picked spin, to be fair on both sides of the arguments.
> 
> speaking of media personalities, did you see some of the latest gems out of Tucker Carlson?
> 
> I find it a sad day when media personalities are held up above real evidence and facts.


Ben who? Tucker who? LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

I find it facinating how people are so taken by media personalities for facts. It’s such a chuckle having seen lawyers for types like Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Ezra Levant having to resort to using the defense that their clients are only entertainment personalities and people shouldn’t take them seriously.

but they do, and these personalities just rake in millions. They know exactly what people want to hear. It’s what they’re already thinking!

Trump was the master of all of them at it.


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## Freddie_Biff

I call it pandering.


----------



## Macfury

That isn't so. Individual jurors can only vote up or down on guilt. They may individually discount some evidence and accept other evidence in reaching their decision.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It takes a lot to convict a cop of either manslaughter or murder. Chauvin was convicted of both. Makes one think that perhaps the evidence presented was, oh, I dunno...what’s the word.......incontrovertible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That isn't so. Individual jurors can only vote up or down on guilt. They may individually discount some evidence and accept other evidence in reaching their decision.


Why is this so hard for you to understand? One juror described the proceedings. 11 jurors had decided guilty based on the evidence presented. That was first ballot. The time was then spent convincing the 12th juror that Chauvin was guilty. This was a slam dunk. Why? Because of the evidence. And the most persuasive evidence was the video footage shot by the bystander as well as the police body cams. If there hadn’t been video footage I don’t think Chauvin would have been charged let alone convicted. Everyone could see it, even you. Groovetube is right; you just like to troll. Or play devil’s advocate. Call it what you will.


----------



## groovetube

People are so hungry for 'the truth that no one wants you to hear'. There are vast media empires built on pushing just nonsense. Look for the outfits that have lawyers that scream 'we're an entertainment company not to be taken seriously so you can't sue us' defence. People have somehow forgotten what journalistic integrity is. To be fair, so have a few major news networks at times. CNN is not a favourite by any means (because people's knee jerk reactions will go there after my next line...) but Fox News has been just incredible with their lies and conspiracy theories, especially the last few years. So much so, that I guess they have billions in lawsuits coming. Wonder if they'll use the 'we're merely entertainment" defence... People think they're smart enough to discern, but honestly, it's like watching lemmings go off a cliff. These media types all know and have well sharpened their skills over the years in how to shape opinion to be facts, blurring the lines so now, even if you point it out, people just shut down. And they use these 'opinion facts' to fit the sort of thinking in people's heads having used research firms. Or what they want to think more specifically. Gone is the idea that facts matter. How many times has that been said in the last few years? Just post a link to said media personality without any commentary of your own. If asked, never provide anything of substance to show any validity to the claims. Dig in, call people snowflakes, or whatever such crap, and you pretty much have 90% of all political interactions on social media. Social media companies, namely facebook, carefully defines you and allows companies to research using your data all collected and categorized for their clients, and these 'companies' can serve you memes, and ads that are targeted to outrage you. It doesn't matter if its true, quite often it's either completely wrong, or barely half the story. But you get outraged, share the meme, probably many on your timeline will share your views, and well off goes the lie. 

Its one of the reasons I have tried to stop sharing memes as much as possible. And if I provide a link, it's just for reference, because I think if you're going to do that, at least have enough respect for the other people by talking about the topic in your own words and be prepared to back it up. If you can't, just say so. Pretending with dr google is tiresome. I get annoyed with the constant assertions just spouted that often just ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense, all for the outrage possibilities even if one doesn't intend it, likely seeded from one of these outrage machines. If people really want truth, try stripping away all this stupidity. No, you can't just make ridiculous statements without being challenged on it. If that's abrasive, well I have to wonder what exactly macfury meant when he whined that people who only hang at the Shang was 'weak kneed' or whatever similar descriptive he used.

So yeah. Im frustrated with how people discuss politics.


----------



## Macfury

It's not hard to understand--it just isn't true. The preponderance of evidence may be persuasive even when the individual elements of evidence are not incontrovertible. This is an important legal principle.

Yes, I believe the video evidence necessitated a trial. It is not incontrovertible.

You seem to have some insight into the minds of the jurors and how they made their individual decisions that is not available to others. All we know is that most of them decided quickly.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is this so hard for you to understand? One juror described the proceedings. 11 jurors had decided guilty based on the evidence presented. That was first ballot. The time was then spent convincing the 12th juror that Chauvin was guilty. This was a slam dunk. Why? Because of the evidence. And the most persuasive evidence was the video footage shot by the bystander as well as the police body cams. If there hadn’t been video footage I don’t think Chauvin would have been charged let alone convicted. Everyone could see it, even you. Groovetube is right; you just like to troll. Or play devil’s advocate. Call it what you will.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Why is this so hard for you to understand? One juror described the proceedings. 11 jurors had decided guilty based on the evidence presented. That was first ballot. The time was then spent convincing the 12th juror that Chauvin was guilty. This was a slam dunk. Why? Because of the evidence. And the most persuasive evidence was the video footage shot by the bystander as well as the police body cams. If there hadn’t been video footage I don’t think Chauvin would have been charged let alone convicted. Everyone could see it, even you. Groovetube is right; you just like to troll. Or play devil’s advocate. Call it what you will.


That’s thing about the way this discussion, if you can call it that, is going. See you made the cardinal error of possibly referring to one strong piece of evidence as ‘incontrovertible’.
So rather than maybe talking about other more interesting aspects of this trial, what it may mean for future ones etc., there’s a fixation on this very point, and it’s rather like when a crocodile grabs hold of something, won’t let go, and then goes into the windup I mean death roll. 

death roll for any chance of any discussion that is.


----------



## CubaMark

Well, how do you like that? An actual case of voter fraud....









Man who voted for Trump in name of dead mother sentenced


Bruce Bartman hears his fate for unlawful voting.




www.newser.com


----------



## Macfury

You're not paying much attention. There were many prosecutions for voter fraud recently--many of them Democrat.



CubaMark said:


> Well, how do you like that? An actual case of voter fraud....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man who voted for Trump in name of dead mother sentenced
> 
> 
> Bruce Bartman hears his fate for unlawful voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newser.com


----------



## groovetube

CubaMark said:


> Well, how do you like that? An actual case of voter fraud....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man who voted for Trump in name of dead mother sentenced
> 
> 
> Bruce Bartman hears his fate for unlawful voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newser.com


HA! Finally found one!

oops.


----------



## Macfury

Here are the five charged in Illinois:




__ https://www.facebook.com/DuPageSAO/posts/3705404719494860



Two in Pennsylvania:









Bucks County DA: Two women tried to vote for dead mothers in November election


Two Bucks County women face charges of voter fraud after authorities say they filled out mail-in ballot applications for their dead mothers in separate incidents ahead of the November election, the county District Attorney's Office announced Friday night.




www.mcall.com











CubaMark said:


> Well, how do you like that? An actual case of voter fraud....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man who voted for Trump in name of dead mother sentenced
> 
> 
> Bruce Bartman hears his fate for unlawful voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newser.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Here are the five charged in Illinois:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/DuPageSAO/posts/3705404719494860
> 
> 
> 
> Two in Pennsylvania:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bucks County DA: Two women tried to vote for dead mothers in November election
> 
> 
> Two Bucks County women face charges of voter fraud after authorities say they filled out mail-in ballot applications for their dead mothers in separate incidents ahead of the November election, the county District Attorney's Office announced Friday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mcall.com


Yeah, I don’t think that’s NEAR enough to flip an election. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

No word on the dominion voting machines either.

or the biggest election fraud in the history of all election history ever recorded forever and Ever amen!

but in all seriousness, so what if there’s also a few democrat ones as well? No one has said there haven’t been a few handfuls of cases. Just never to the extent that republicans are always screaming about and changing voter laws for! How is the irony being missed? But the big lie continues to be pushed by Republican lawmakers. Which should be of grave concern no matter one’s politic.


----------



## Macfury

It isn't. And I don't believe that anybody credited that to individual frauds forging ballots.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yeah, I don’t think that’s NEAR enough to flip an election. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

Well so far, the only ‘credit’ that’s likely going to happen in regards to the big fraud is likely the billions the vote machine companies will win in many of their lawsuits.

I read about the bogus recount effort in Arizona by a trump loyalist company. There were photos of a Capitol rioter on the floor counting votes, and Mickey Mouse fake cops preventing any media access. I mean, at this point, why even bother?

riiiight. There’s lots more $$$ to fleece and they need to put on a bit of a show after countless court losses where they had every opportunity to show any fraud evidence. But didn’t.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Well so far, the only ‘credit’ that’s likely going to happen in regards to the big fraud is likely the billions the vote machine companies will win in many of their lawsuits.
> 
> I read about the bogus recount effort in Arizona by a trump loyalist company. There were photos of a Capitol rioter on the floor counting votes, and Mickey Mouse fake cops preventing any media access. I mean, at this point, why even bother?
> 
> riiiight. There’s lots more $$$ to fleece and they need to put on a bit of a show after countless court losses where they had every opportunity to show any fraud evidence. But didn’t.


Thing is, nobody even cares anymore. It’s 
six months later, for gosh sakes. Talk about sore losers. What do they think they’re going to find?


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Thing is, nobody even cares anymore. It’s
> six months later, for gosh sakes. Talk about sore losers. What do they think they’re going to find?


There are millions and millions of people who do care, and are willing to be fleeced for whatever big conspiracy election fraud thing that can be extended and milked for as long as possible. Those legal debts won't pay for themselves!

Why do you think the Republican Party is literally gagging and holding it together for Trump? Trump is the absolute master of that whole right wing evangelical deal in conspiracy theory based fund raising. When I say "thars money in dem thar hiiiillllllls" Im not trying to be a jerk about it. It's exactly how it is. Sure, you can point out all the failings and lies etc about the democrats, and that can be a long conversation to be fair. But what we're witnessing with the Republican Party right now, the dems cant even hold a candle to the mastery of Trump in this regard. My only hope, is that somehow trump (and perhaps his family members...) are successfully neutered in whatever way that stops that insanity from getting much worse, but I fear, that may be optimistic. Its not a pretty road ahead if it's not tamed.

This is really the first time in a very long time that I can remember, that Ive seen this many people who identify as conservative, be this disgusted with their party. In fact, many of the ones Ive known, have just stopped talking politics altogether because there's nothing there for them anymore. They hate liberals and now, they hate their own party well, almost as much. I realize polls will be held up as proof Im wrong. Of course a winning result for the democrats would be if the Republican Party civil war finishes with a second gop type party. We all know how well things go for conservatives here in Canada when the right splits their vote. Even though the liberals here has been successful despite sharing their vote with the ndp.

so of course, if you can’t win, just stop people from voting based on bogus unsubstantiated reports of voter fraud. Yet another Republican state to do so:GOP Gov. DeSantis signs restrictive new voting law in Florida that Dems fear will suppress turnout


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Any vote count changes in Arizona yet?


----------



## groovetube

Well, I guess we'll just have to await the "cyber ninja's" report with their Mickey Mouse cop er, security force won't we. It's really hard to make this **** up. Really.

But the sadder part of this, is this whole exercise isn't meant for larger consumption. Trump and his hypocrite band of arse licking republicans have figured out that, as Ive said before... "thars money in them thar hilllllls..", and whole lot of it too if you dupe millions enough... and this entire farce, is really 150,000 really well spent advertising dollars. I still see the odd poor soul somewhere saying 'well if there's something it should be investigated, right?" And it's just these sorts of feeble minded ones these money leeches are after. And there's a lot of them!

The same ones that'll try really dumb **** like trying to compare that absolute pack of lies to the 'Liberal left's move to green energy". Casting that as a pack of lies. Without even addressing whether one believes in green energy or not, just consider the fact that they think it's a good comparison. That's how far down the hole these people have gone.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The mind boggles. Trump lost. Bigly. That this is even up for debate five months after Election Day is baffling.


----------



## groovetube

I don’t think it’s actually up for debate amongst most rational people. It’s just a big sideshow for the gullible to empty their wallets. Why do you think so many republicans have sold whatever dignity they had left to join in on the smorgasbord.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I wonder if our local libertarian friend has joined the cause and chipped in?


----------



## groovetube

He was all in on this dominion machine thing as I recall. But I suspect that was more for wind up purposes. But who knows? Ive seen some people on social media say things that just came out of nowhere.

At this point most (honest) people are fully aware that there hasn't been any evidence whatsoever, to support voter fraud that could affect the outcome of the election.

None.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I have heard of some cases of Republican voters who committed voter fraud. One killed his wife and voted for her, I believe. But again, nothing widespread.


----------



## groovetube

Well, they sure clammed up pretty fast. I’d have expected some chortling and guffaws out of this sham they’re pulling in Arizona by now. But there’s still time. “The truth they don’t want you to know!”… it just rakes in the cold cash…


----------



## groovetube

I saw this this morning, apparently Trump is now whining about how unfair the NY AG is being. What made me laugh was this line:



> "But, make no mistake, that is exactly what is happening here. The Attorney General of New York literally campaigned on prosecuting Donald Trump even before she knew anything about me. She said that if elected, she would use her office to look into 'every aspect' of my real estate dealings."


I mean, come on. Can you really imagine campaigning on jailing a political opponent? 

Hows the Benghazi investigations going? The 'but'er emails!" one? There sure has been some hyperventilating about those!

Anyone know why those investigations were quietly closed down after the Donald took office? No? what about the election fraud commission thing? The feeble excuse that states wouldn't cooperate... What do you think will happen with these latest 'election was stolen' nonsenses after it's best before date passes? 

Thars money in them hills...


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The Trump years seem almost like a Twilight Zone episode now. An alternate reality. Gaslighting 101, where everything you thought was true had been turned upside down by conspiracy theorists. Some have still not snapped out of it. Some of them, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, even get elected. I haven’t heard much about QAnon lately. Are they still operating?


----------



## CubaMark

_More evidence that brain damage is a prerequisite to membership in the Republican Party...._









Lauren Boebert Just Asked Twitter For Their Favorite Bible Verses—And It Backfired Spectacularly


Lauren Boebert's request for Twitter's favorite Bible verses backfired on her when many of the passages quoted directly oppose Boebert's own political policies.




www.comicsands.com


----------



## Macfury

It's interesting to see how many of those leftists equate government programs with personal responsibility.



CubaMark said:


> _More evidence that brain damage is a prerequisite to membership in the Republican Party...._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lauren Boebert Just Asked Twitter For Their Favorite Bible Verses—And It Backfired Spectacularly
> 
> 
> Lauren Boebert's request for Twitter's favorite Bible verses backfired on her when many of the passages quoted directly oppose Boebert's own political policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.comicsands.com


----------



## groovetube

Oh boy, I can hear the whole ‘bootstraps’ preaching any time now…🙄


----------



## groovetube

the sad part is, there are those who think it’s entertaining because this thing is ‘p***ing off liberals’ but it’s just screeching for attention.

I really wish media would just ignore it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So apparently Canada has passed the US with the number of first vaccinations, although we lag behind them for those fully vaccinated. Still, that’s pretty good progress in a fairly short amount of time.


----------



## Macfury

I was looking at some world data and Canada seemed to lag behind many countries on both first shots and "fully vaccinated" (Canada 4.6% vs. US 40.2%). We're slightly ahead of the US on "at least one dose" (53.7 vs. 50.3) but the wide availability of one-dose vaccines in the US and not in Canada makes the comparison awkward. 

On the world scale, Canada rates 97th place for percentage of population fully vaccinated.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So apparently Canada has passed the US with the number of first vaccinations, although we lag behind them for those fully vaccinated. Still, that’s pretty good progress in a fairly short amount of time.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> So apparently Canada has passed the US with the number of first vaccinations, although we lag behind them for those fully vaccinated. Still, that’s pretty good progress in a fairly short amount of time.


given we have no real vaccine production here we are doing incredibly well. The press sure made hay over the slow start, and still Im seeing the usual sad sackery with Canada proud memes comparing us to a bunch of countries with minuscule populations, but wait for June as there are millions more doses happening and the second shots are going to really ramp up. Im due for mine in a few weeks.

This sure is a lesson is watching out for the snakes that promise tax cuts and huge health care slashes and privatizations as what happened with what vaccine production we had under mulroney.

It's unfortunate that 3 of the worst provinces with conservative premiers had to weather the similar sorts of refusals to listen to science and doctors as Trump, resulting in many more losing their lives. I think Id like to see Ford led out in handcuffs over that one.


----------



## Macfury

Oh, Canada!



> If this rate of vaccination continues throughout the summer, the country would have *20 per cent of its eligible population—those 12 years of age and older–fully vaccinated by early October.*


Ouch!









A snapshot of Canada's progress in administering COVID-19 vaccines


More than 60 per cent of eligible Canadians have been vaccinated with their first COVID-19 vaccine doses in Canada. But the rate at which second doses are being administered is still lagging far behind the first-dose rate, for the time being.




www.ctvnews.ca


----------



## groovetube

> NOTE: The tracker currently shows a low projection for full vaccination due to the low rate of second dose administration. As the rate of second doses increases each day, the projection will update. This tracker is useful for answering the question of “If we keep up today’s pace, when will we hit our targets?” but it doesn’t incorporate future events that could change the rates of vaccination.


LOL. That’s pretty pathetic man.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Oh, Canada!
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A snapshot of Canada's progress in administering COVID-19 vaccines
> 
> 
> More than 60 per cent of eligible Canadians have been vaccinated with their first COVID-19 vaccine doses in Canada. But the rate at which second doses are being administered is still lagging far behind the first-dose rate, for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ctvnews.ca


Better than nothing. And if 70% can at least get a first shot, that will offer a lot of protection. It’s going to be a challenge getting the anti-vaxxers off their asses though.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Better than nothing. And if 70% can at least get a first shot, that will offer a lot of protection. It’s going to be a challenge getting the anti-vaxxers off their asses though.


Read the rest of the article. Imagine complaining about CNN and then ha ha ha. Trying to pass this off.

LOL


----------



## Macfury

It's better than nothing, but not good at all for a developed nation. 

And yes, there will be a large number of people who will be vaccine-hesitant. Herd immunity is likely to occur before they can be convinced.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Better than nothing. And if 70% can at least get a first shot, that will offer a lot of protection. It’s going to be a challenge getting the anti-vaxxers off their asses though.


----------



## groovetube

Not good for a developed nation, Macfury, why do you always insist on dumbing this all down to the lowest common denominator? It's overwhelmingly clear to anyone who actually reads that tabloid style nonsense that the headline, which you keep repeating in one form or another, for trolling purposes obviously, is just a low brow hook to get people to click. And there's plenty of people on social media, possibly like yourself, who are hungry for headlines such as these, something finally, that you can sink your teeth into and club Trudeau over the head, and give some validity to, whatever your sad sacked political opinion seems to be today. And post at will!! weeee!

The problem is, is all that creates is an environment that creates the us and them, someone chimes in that the premise is completely wrong (which is obvious as I said... and even the article admits it!!) and you can carry on your phoney crusade against I don't know... "socialists", or, the left. Whatever. But you're just part of the big problem yourself. While you're traipsing around social media sprinkling these feces everywhere, actually looking at any policy is tossed aside. 

So great. Trudeau baaaaad. Fart. the left. damn elites takin mah money. 👏👏👏

Such policy wonkery astounds!


----------



## groovetube

oh look! Breaking news!!!!! Ontario shortens gap between COVID-19 vaccine doses with majority of residents fully vaccinated by end of summer

LOL. Same news source.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Not good for a developed nation, Macfury, why do you always insist on dumbing this all down to the lowest common denominator?


Always interesting to see what GT and the rest of the Kool-Aid crowd believe meets the criteria for civil discourse.


----------



## Macfury

With some people, it's ALWAYS personal.


----------



## groovetube

Well macfury, I wouldn't take it so personally that not everyone will agree with your chicken little clickbait crap. 

You can always find some solace somewhere where someone doesn't dismantle your troll attempts.


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Well macfury, I wouldn't take it so personally that not everyone will agree with your chicken little clickbait crap.
> 
> You can always find some solace somewhere where someone doesn't dismantle your troll attempts.


You're in great form. Get called out for hypocrisy, and react by doubling down.


----------



## groovetube

No one really knows what the hell you’re talking about.

I called macfury out for posting a clickbait article and pushing it. Now the two of you are getting upset and lashing out.

Just another day in ehmacland!


----------



## groovetube

hey! Y'all hear that apparently Trump is saying he's going to be reinstated this summer? Yeah eh, "everybody" is really interested and watching the recount going on in Arizona eh? 

Yeah eh send in MORE money! And Flynn says he thinks there should be a military style coup like Myanmar! oh but wink wink he didn't really uh, say that, but he did...

Meanwhile, republican states everywhere quickly passing new election laws to cheat. Because, they say they want to stop cheating, that doesn't really exist... with... cheating.

It just cracks me up to watch those trying to defend pure nonsense.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Seeing as how right Macfury was about Trump winning the election, I wonder if he’ll have anything to offer about Trump being reinstated in August. Maybe eMacMan has some ideas as well.


----------



## groovetube

I think it's getting tougher for any of them to even try to defend this. That's why you'll see zero substance posts with red herrings or straw men take your pick. And Im sure there's a few more coming'.


----------



## groovetube

Weeeeeeeeeeeee ha ha ha ha!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Oh, Canada!
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A snapshot of Canada's progress in administering COVID-19 vaccines
> 
> 
> More than 60 per cent of eligible Canadians have been vaccinated with their first COVID-19 vaccine doses in Canada. But the rate at which second doses are being administered is still lagging far behind the first-dose rate, for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ctvnews.ca


So we’re shooting forward on fully vaccinated now, passing 15% at an average of almost a 1% a day… and it’s not even mid June yet, got any more sky is falling beauties for us?

LOL

How’s the dominion machines voted for biden just wait for Trump in 2 weeks ones going?

weeeeeee.

I wanna hear more about cancel culture from the people who cancelled plenty of cultures already too.


----------



## Macfury

Macfury said:


> I was looking at some world data and Canada seemed to lag behind many countries on both first shots and "fully vaccinated" (Canada 4.6% vs. US 40.2%). We're slightly ahead of the US on "at least one dose" (53.7 vs. 50.3) but the wide availability of one-dose vaccines in the US and not in Canada makes the comparison awkward.
> 
> On the world scale, Canada rates 97th place for percentage of population fully vaccinated.


Canada is now lagging at 12.2% fully vaccinated. That's 88th place in the world. We're being trounced by far less wealthy nations... but very proud of our progress.


----------



## groovetube

Notice how he moves the goal posts. First he quotes the fully vaccinated of the eligible population 12+, now he references the percentage of the entire population. 88th… I thought we were 97th? By less wealthy nations, did you also mean nations with a fraction of our population too?? Gee, what’s happening man?????

Bu-bu-but you said we wouldn’t reach 20% until early October! We’ll be there in a week at this pace and it’s picking up!

wrong again! Weeeeeeee!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

There’s a lottery with three prizes of $1 million dollars each in Alberta to motivate people to get vaccinated. Not a strategy I agree with, but it may help here in Texas of the North. We’re almost at 70% of people who’ve had their first shot.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Canada is now lagging at 12.2% fully vaccinated. That's 88th place in the world. We're being trounced by far less wealthy nations... but very proud of our progress.


And your point is? The percentage of people who’ve had their first dose is considerably higher than that and even one does offers substantial benefits.


----------



## Macfury

My point is that Canada's performance is shockingly poor for a G7 nation.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And your point is? The percentage of people who’ve had their first dose is considerably higher than that and even one does offers substantial benefits.


----------



## Macfury

Bragging about a first dose is kind of like boasting about the number of students who handed in half their assignments.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> And your point is? The percentage of people who’ve had their first dose is considerably higher than that and even one does offers substantial benefits.


You can point out all the facts you want but the best you can do is laugh about it. There isn’t any truth to the cherry picked yesterday’s numbers so I’m just poking some fun.

I think he’s already forgotten about the chicken little news link he posted about the 20% in October prediction.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Bragging about a first dose is kind of like boasting about the number of students who handed in half their assignments.


Yes because first doses are useless and there was no strategy in this at all.

boooooooooring.

in any case, Health Canada announced today that because we are getting so many vaccines now, all Canadians will be able to be fully vaccinated by September. Likely similar timelines as the G7.

Wrong again!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday, so you can add me to wherever we’re at for “fully vaccinated.”


----------



## groovetube

A much clearer metric would be doses per 100. Because that would take away the useless argument of whether or not the strategy of getting as many first doses to as many people as possible, was a good one or not.

In that case, the only two countries ahead of Canada in the G7 are the US and the UK.

So, the Trudeau derangement syndrome crowd will have to do a whole lot better than that lame attempt.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday, so you can add me to wherever we’re at for “fully vaccinated.”


Awesome. Here in Ontario, Ford has so badly bungled the vaccine rollout that it’s turned into a hunger games of sorts. I have to drive an hour outside of the city for my second shot, many I know can’t even get an appointment, the site crashes repeatedly, and all we get from Ford is “Folks, you wouldn’t believe the logistics of this!”. Maybe he should learn from the USs rollout and stop the pathetic constant blaming of others. Other provinces seem to be handling it with much less nonsense.


----------



## Macfury

You boosted it to 13.77%.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday, so you can add me to wherever we’re at for “fully vaccinated.”


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You boosted it to 13.77%.


Happy to do my part!


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Happy to do my part!


We're booked as well in a couple weeks, my feed is filled with tons of people posting selfies of their second dose. 

Guess we'll see how this goes in, uh, 2 weeks?


----------



## groovetube

.. duplicate post


----------



## groovetube

> *McCarthy slams Biden for giving 'Putin a pass' after years of silence on Trump's relationship with Russian president*


AHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

And he probably said it with a straight face too


----------



## Macfury

With all of these vaccine selfies being posted, I hear that people are starting to share selfies of their enemas on social media as well.


----------



## groovetube

Man. I don’t know what you subscribe to on your Facebook feed, but I can’t say I’ve ever even heard of such an unpleasant fad. Not being judgy here!

likely hitting 20% 12+ fully vaccinated by tomorrow, hmmmm, what month is this still?


PS I hear trump is still gonna be reinstated in august? We’ll all be surprised in 2 weeks!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> With all of these vaccine selfies being posted, I hear that people are starting to share selfies of their enemas on social media as well.


Some people have been spreading their ****e around for years.


----------



## groovetube

Ha!


----------



## groovetube

Vaccine deliveries enough to fully vaccinate all eligible Canadians by end of July


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's promise of a two-dose fall is looking a lot more like it will become a two-dose August.




www.cp24.com





100% by the end of July???? WHAAAATTTT?

don’t they know macfury on ehmac said 20% by mid October???


----------



## eMacMan

groovetube said:


> Vaccine deliveries enough to fully vaccinate all eligible Canadians by end of July
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's promise of a two-dose fall is looking a lot more like it will become a two-dose August.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cp24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100% by the end of July???? WHAAAATTTT?
> 
> don’t they know macfury on ehmac said 20% by mid October???


How much Kovid Kool-aid did it take to have you thinking this was in any way related to American politics?


----------



## groovetube

eMacMan said:


> How much Kovid Kool-aid did it take to have you thinking this was in any way related to American politics?


You seem a little confused and angry. Ask your pal macfury. He posted that sky is falling CTV article on this topic. Im merely laughing about it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> You seem a little confused and angry. Ask your pal macfury. He posted that sky is falling CTV article on this topic. Im merely laughing about it.


Butthurt Conservatives. You’ll find them all over the place. Nothing some tasty Kovid Koolaid couldn’t fix.


----------



## groovetube

Looking across America and how many republican led state governments are all furiously passing some of the most restrictive voting laws ever, all based on phoney voter fraud allegations of course, and thinking, I wonder if it'll ever dawn on these groups that if you have politics that far right and you have to so openly rig the game to win, how sustainable really, is that? If your survival is based mostly on continued and unfettered access to being able to rig voting laws to suppress certain groups that don't vote for you, redistricting in some of the most ridiculous and obvious ways sometimes, it must be worrisome to some who may have any consciousness left. The ones that don't, don't seem to possess the capacity to get past the fact, that all these voter fraud howls as justification for these obscene displays of outright election rigging is a total scam.

George Soros! Gates! Bezos! Oh muh Gawd Hollywood!

It boggles the mind just how many really stupid people there really are out there. And somehow, "safe haven' is the democrats. Who really, quite often just the little less ****ty version of the republicans.

What are they gonna do when they run out of things to differentiate themselves with? we haven't heard much about deficits in a while for, some odd reason


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Looking across America and how many republican led state governments are all furiously passing some of the most restrictive voting laws ever, all based on phoney voter fraud allegations of course, and thinking, I wonder if it'll ever dawn on these groups that if you have politics that far right and you have to so openly rig the game to win, how sustainable really, is that? If your survival is based mostly on continued and unfettered access to being able to rig voting laws to suppress certain groups that don't vote for you, redistricting in some of the most ridiculous and obvious ways sometimes, it must be worrisome to some who may have any consciousness left. The ones that don't, don't seem to possess the capacity to get past the fact, that all these voter fraud howls as justification for these obscene displays of outright election rigging is a total scam.
> 
> George Soros! Gates! Bezos! Oh muh Gawd Hollywood!
> 
> It boggles the mind just how many really stupid people there really are out there. And somehow, "safe haven' is the democrats. Who really, quite often just the little less ****ty version of the republicans.
> 
> What are they gonna do when they run out of things to differentiate themselves with? we haven't heard much about deficits in a while for, some odd reason


Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Maybe the Repubs should just try to find a better candidate.


----------



## eMacMan

The Burn Loot Murder (and Rape) bunch are rejoicing today. Probably they are singing as well. Yep, Bill Cosby is a free man after his sexual assault conviction was overturned.









Bill Cosby's Case Explained: His Arrest, Conviction and Release


The disgraced comedian was arrested in 2015 and charged with sexual assault of a Temple University employee a decade earlier. Here is the long, sordid history of a case nearly two decades old against the man once called “America’s Dad.”




www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> The Burn Loot Murder (and Rape) bunch are rejoicing today. Probably they are singing as well. Yep, Bill Cosby is a free man after his sexual assault conviction was overturned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Cosby's Case Explained: His Arrest, Conviction and Release
> 
> 
> The disgraced comedian was arrested in 2015 and charged with sexual assault of a Temple University employee a decade earlier. Here is the long, sordid history of a case nearly two decades old against the man once called “America’s Dad.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnewyork.com


And you think that’s a good thing? They never said he wasn’t guilty of sexual assault and he admits to having drugged a number of women to have sex with them. He got out on a procedural mistake.


----------



## Macfury

EMacMan is saying it's a bad thing, not a good thing.



Freddie_Biff said:


> And you think that’s a good thing? They never said he wasn’t guilty of sexual assault and he admits to having drugged a number of women to have sex with them. He got out on a procedural mistake.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> EMacMan is saying it's a bad thing, not a good thing.


He’s also making the idiotic assumption that Black Lives Matter advocates are all rejoicing at Cosby’s release. That would assume that no BLM advocates have any sympathy for the women he admittedly raped. Pretty tone deaf response.


----------



## FeXL

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Pretty tone deaf response.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Hmmm. Deep. As per usual.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Happy 4th of July to our Southern neighbours!


----------



## eMacMan

Ransomware Attack Before Holiday Leaves Companies Scrambling - Business Journal Daily | The Youngstown Publishing Company


By MATT O’BRIEN AP Technology WriterBusinesses around the world rushed Saturday to contain a ransomware attack that has paralyzed their computer networks, a situation complicated in the U.S. by offices lightly staffed at the start of the Fourth of July…




businessjournaldaily.com




Pretty sure old senile Joe will try to blame the Rooskies. Of course those crazy conspiracy theorists have been claiming for months that the Gatesoraus is planning an all out attack on the internet. Yep the same bat**** crazy types who pointed out back more than a year ago that lockdowns would last far longer than four weeks. The same ones who predicted the mask madness despite abundant evidence that masks do not prevent the spread of viruses. The same ones who predicted the attacks on religious organizations. The sames ones who predicted the current push for vaccine passports.................

[FONT: Sarcasm]Of course nothing these folks have ever predicted ever actually happened.[/FONT: Sarcasm]


----------



## Freddie_Biff

(facepalm)


----------



## eMacMan

Wanna bet the Burn Loot and Murder brigade says absolutely nothing about the cops skating on this one.
Police Accidentally Kill Hero Who Fatally Shot Gunman That Just Killed A Cop
[QUOTE: unfurl="true"]
A good samaritan was shot and killed by police last week, after he came to the rescue during a potential mass shooting and took out the gunman. Johnny Hurley was shopping at an Army Navy Surplus Store in Olde Town Arvada In Colorado last Monday when gunshots were fired down the street.

Hurley was armed with a legal gun, and ran towards the sounds to intervene.

When he ran out of the store, the gunman was coming back towards the area where people had gathered. Hurley told everyone to take cover and confronted the gunman before shooting him and taking him out.

Police arrived on the scene shortly after and began shooting at Hurley, thinking that he was the original gunman.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## FeXL

It took two days for you to formulate that snappy comeback?

I guess that's faster than usual...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Hmmm. Deep. As per usual.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> It took two days for you to formulate that snappy comeback?
> 
> I guess that's faster than usual...


You’re just full of wisdom these days. Catching your breath?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Wanna bet the Burn Loot and Murder brigade says absolutely nothing about the cops skating on this one.
> Police Accidentally Kill Hero Who Fatally Shot Gunman That Just Killed A Cop
> [QUOTE: unfurl="true"]
> A good samaritan was shot and killed by police last week, after he came to the rescue during a potential mass shooting and took out the gunman. Johnny Hurley was shopping at an Army Navy Surplus Store in Olde Town Arvada In Colorado last Monday when gunshots were fired down the street.
> 
> Hurley was armed with a legal gun, and ran towards the sounds to intervene.
> 
> When he ran out of the store, the gunman was coming back towards the area where people had gathered. Hurley told everyone to take cover and confronted the gunman before shooting him and taking him out.
> 
> Police arrived on the scene shortly after and began shooting at Hurley, thinking that he was the original gunman.


[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I heard about this one. Pretty tragic. An unfortunate complication of gun culture. That’s why teachers with guns during school shootings are also a danger. How do the cops know who they’re supposed to shoot?


----------



## FeXL

That's an easy one: White-y with an AR!



Freddie_Biff said:


> How do the cops know who they’re supposed to shoot?


----------



## eMacMan

God obviously doesn't think too highly of (alleged) methheads like George Floyd.








George Floyd mural destroyed after lightning strike, witnesses report


Photos show a section of the wall on which the mural was painted reduced to rubble and authorities have cordoned off the site.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Amazing that there are still dunderheads out there who think that God causes lightning.


----------



## Macfury

You still believe that you control the climate.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Amazing that there are still dunderheads out there who think that God causes lightning.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You still believe that you control the climate.


?? When did I suggest that? You’re conflating two different threads.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Amazing that there are still dunderheads out there who think that God causes lightning.


He doesn't have to create it, just control an occasional bolt here and there. If one believes in a god, it would be an incredible stretch to believe he could not aim the occasional lightning bolt. A more salient thought would be does he care enough about the hero worship of a meth head to do so?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> He doesn't have to create it, just control an occasional bolt here and there. If one believes in a god, it would be an incredible stretch to believe he could not aim the occasional lightning bolt. A more salient thought would be does he care enough about the hero worship of a meth head to do so?


Tell me, do you think Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd? Because you sure don’t sound like you have any sympathy for George Floyd or the Floyd family. Dismissing him as a meth head is pretty callous.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Tell me, do you think Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd? Because you sure don’t sound like you have any sympathy for George Floyd or the Floyd family. Dismissing him as a meth head is pretty callous.


There seems ample evidence to call him a meth head, and the mural was lionizing him. One would think the Burn, Loot and Murder cult could surely find far more sympathetic victims to hang their cause on. Failing to do so certainly weakens their arguments, as does ignoring the 78% of those cop killing victims who are not black.

Brings to mind a black co-worker who once ambushed me with the phrase; "You don't respect me because I'm black." I pinned him to the wall and told him point blank; "If you want my respect you'll have to earn it just like a white man." There were half a dozen witnesses including his own brother and another black guy. Not one of them would back him up when he tried to complain to HR. Turns out my opinion that he was a coke addled a55#01e was shared by all of his co-workers, black and white alike.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> There seems ample evidence to call him a meth head, and the mural was lionizing him. One would think the Burn, Loot and Murder cult could surely find far more sympathetic victims to hang their cause on. Failing to do so certainly weakens their arguments, as does ignoring the 78% of those cop killing victims who are not black.
> 
> Brings to mind a black co-worker who once ambushed me with the phrase; "You don't respect me because I'm black." I pinned him to the wall and told him point blank; "If you want my respect you'll have to earn it just like a white man." There were half a dozen witnesses including his own brother and another black guy. Not one of them would back him up when he tried to complain to HR. Turns out my opinion that he was a coke addled a55#01e was shared by all of his co-workers, black and white alike.


Again: did Derek Chauvin murder George Floyd or not? Answer the question. I don’t really care what your opinion of Floyd is.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> Again: did Derek Chauvin murder George Floyd or not? Answer the question. I don’t really care what your opinion of Floyd is.


Freddie my opinion as to how he died has nothing to do with my belief that the man is not worthy of lionization. On that God also seems to have expressed himself in a rather dramatic manner. You of course are still free to believe otherwise, nor would I dream of denying you that right.

If Soros or whoever it is that finances the Burn, Loot and Murder gang does so with the intent to divide Americans, then the selection of Floyd as the poster boy is entirely appropriate. If their intent was more honest they surely would be campaigning against all questionable cop killings, not just those of blacks. Moreover out of 1000 US deaths by cop per year they would surely be able to find a more sympathetic poster boy (or girl). Even out of 220 black deaths a year they should be able to find a better flag bearer.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Freddie my opinion as to how he died has nothing to do with my belief that the man is not worthy of lionization. On that God also seems to have expressed himself in a rather dramatic manner. You of course are still free to believe otherwise, nor would I dream of denying you that right.
> 
> If Soros or whoever it is that finances the Burn, Loot and Murder gang does so with the intent to divide Americans, then the selection of Floyd as the poster boy is entirely appropriate. If their intent was more honest they surely would be campaigning against all questionable cop killings, not just those of blacks. Moreover out of 1000 US deaths by cop per year they would surely be able to find a more sympathetic poster boy (or girl). Even out of 220 black deaths a year they should be able to find a better flag bearer.


So you justify your racism because you claim “God” threw a bolt of lightning at a display in memory of George Floyd. Okay, I see what kind of intellect I’m dealing with here.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> So you justify your racism because you claim “God” threw a bolt of lightning at a display in memory of George Floyd. Okay, I see what kind of intellect I’m dealing with here.


I can always tell when I am on the money. Freddie either trots out 'racist' or possibly 'denier'. When he's up to his neck in quicksand he throws in some Freddie logic.

With his last post we have a twofer. [Font: Sarcasm]First Freddie shows off his self-proclaimed commitment to civil posting by attempting to label me a racist. [/Font: Sarcasm].
And on top of that we have Freddie logic at its finest. Apparently I'm a racist for pointing out the non-inclusive nature of the BLM gang. While that may make sense to Freddie, those with functioning brains will be more than a little baffled.


> If Soros or whoever it is that finances the Burn, Loot and Murder gang does so with the intent to divide Americans, then the selection of Floyd as the poster boy is entirely appropriate. *If their intent was more honest they surely would be campaigning against all questionable cop killings, not just those of blacks.* Moreover out of 1000 US deaths by cop per year they would surely be able to find a more sympathetic poster boy (or girl). Even out of 220 black deaths a year they should be able to find a better flag bearer.


----------



## Macfury

I believe Freddie has already claimed to be a god, so maybe he takes it personally.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Freddie_Biff said:


> So you justify your racism because you claim “God” threw a bolt of lightning at a display in memory of George Floyd. Okay, I see what kind of intellect I’m dealing with here.


I believe I’ve already addressed eMacMan’s perspective. I call him a racist because he is. He’s also a denier, but let’s save that for a different thread.


----------



## Macfury

What did he say that convinced you he is a racist. What is he "denying"?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I believe I’ve already addressed eMacMan’s perspective. I call him a racist because he is. He’s also a denier, but let’s save that for a different thread.


----------



## FeXL

Macfury said:


> What did he say that convinced you he is a racist. What is he "denying"?


You silly: Questioning anything a Prog believes in qualifies you as RAYCISS!!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> What did he say that convinced you he is a racist. What is he "denying"?


I have to spell it out for you? I was giving you more credit for intelligence than that Macfury. Reread his comments on George Floyd the “methhead” who is not deserving of sympathy in spite of being murdered by ex-cop Derek Chauvin. Reread his comments on Black Lives Matter which he affectionately refers to as “Burn, Loot, Murder.” If you don’t see the racism you must be blind. Reread his comments on vaccines. Seriously dude, you’re being wilfully obtuse. But why should that surprise me? It’s what you always do, Peter.


----------



## FeXL

Question, Freddie:

Is Ashli Babbitt deserving of sympathy? Why or why not?


----------



## eMacMan

FeXL said:


> You silly: Questioning anything a Prog believes in qualifies you as RAYCISS!!!


And daring to suggest that a politically correct organization should be more inclusive is RAYCISS in the extreme. 

I would suggest CO2 poisoning but Freddie Logic has been in evidence since he first started posting.


----------



## Macfury

Vaccine denier? I have never heard him speak out against all vaccines?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Question, Freddie:
> 
> Is Ashli Babbitt deserving of sympathy? Why or why not?


Yes, because she is a human being who died. I don’t agree with her politics, but her death to me is sad.

Tell me, FeXL: is George Floyd deserving of sympathy? Why or why not?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> And daring to suggest that a politically correct organization should be more inclusive is RAYCISS in the extreme.
> 
> I would suggest CO2 poisoning but Freddie Logic has been in evidence since he first started posting.


See, than you gotta go and do this. You post something intelligent and respectful in one thread and then resort to these tired old tactics here. Why? Because your posse is watching?


----------



## FeXL

I'm sure some feel sympathy for him...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Tell me, FeXL: is George Floyd deserving of sympathy? Why or why not?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> I'm sure some feel sympathy for him...


And you? Answer the question. The legal system certainly found him guilty of murder.


----------



## FeXL

<snort> Precisely. The _legal_ system. Not the justice system...



Freddie_Biff said:


> The legal system certainly found him guilty of murder.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

FeXL said:


> Precisely. The _legal_ system. Not the justice system...


Uh huh. And how do you figure his death by suffocation on a public street for all to see was justified? You’ve got a hardon for drug users? Perhaps you could explain.


----------



## eMacMan

Freddie_Biff said:


> See, than you gotta go and do this. You post something intelligent and respectful in one thread and then resort to these tired old tactics here. Why? Because your posse is watching?


Uhh Freddie, if you must go off the rails and call someone racist simply because they have an opinion that differs from yours, then you don't get to complain about how badly that ends up reflecting on you. 

The racist card is a cheap below the belt tactic and it will inevitably boomerang when aimed at someone who is willing to stand up to you.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

eMacMan said:


> Uhh Freddie, if you must go off the rails and call someone racist simply because they have an opinion that differs from yours, then you don't get to complain about how badly that ends up reflecting on you.
> 
> The racist card is a cheap below the belt tactic and it will inevitably boomerang when aimed at someone who is willing to stand up to you.


Do you think it was right that Derek Chauvin was found guilty in the murder of George Floyd? Please explain.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> Oh, Canada!
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A snapshot of Canada's progress in administering COVID-19 vaccines
> 
> 
> More than 60 per cent of eligible Canadians have been vaccinated with their first COVID-19 vaccine doses in Canada. But the rate at which second doses are being administered is still lagging far behind the first-dose rate, for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ctvnews.ca


See, this is why it’s good to read the article before posting such alarmist stuff. As I pointed out before, the article itself pretty much admitted it was a click bait article. Canada was 97th, and the prediction was 20% full vaxxed by mid October for 12+?

well we’re now past the US and other G7 countries, we’re 27 with a bullet! Hitting 60% fully vaxxed and it’s still July!

O Canada indeed!!


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you think it was right that Derek Chauvin was found guilty in the murder of George Floyd? Please explain.


I think they may be admitting that it’s ok for cops to murder meth addicts. Which is, when you think about some of their freedom rhetoric, rather astounding.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I think they may be admitting that it’s ok for cops to murder meth addicts. Which is, when you think about some of their freedom rhetoric, rather astounding.


Yeah, I’m just trying to see if anyone of them actually has the balls to say it. To my understanding, murder is murder regardless of who is the recipient.


----------



## groovetube

Naw. They’ll go pages and pages heeing and hawing maybe some yelps about CHINA! CHINA! Along the way. Some brags about handing some asses or some crap. You know how it goes there’s been years of the same numbskullery.


----------



## groovetube

Anyone watching the capitol cops speaking at congress? I would have thought the ones so vocal about their support for law and order and the police would be saying something in some support but, silence.

Can imagine if you were one of the ones lying about antifa/blm/fbi was involved. Id be silent too if I were.

And this, this is just awesome. Rats scurrying off. "congressman Gaetz are you a peodophile?" ha ha ha ha.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420069248781668364


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Blue Lives Matter, unless they were the blue lives defending the Capitol on January 6. The testimony is indeed powerful. We shall see.


----------



## groovetube

George Soros! Antifa! Ivermectin! And you'll hear some pathetic whining about how the dude with moose horns was once at a BLM protest and that's their proof!

Blue lives matter eh? Except when they're holding back a bunch of whipped up Trump zombies I guess.

I wonder what weenie nonsense swipe will be served up today!


----------



## groovetube

I guess this is what “having your ass handed to you” really looks like eh?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

doncha miss theunintelligible massive posts filled with nonsense headlines it didn’t even bother to read?

the cries about word salads, demands for answers to their bullshyte… “be specific now!”
LOL.

yes. What was the actual quote from 2013 when I and almost everyone else vamoosed… right.















.
.
.
.
.
mommy? Is this normal yet? Bah ha ha ha.
.
.
.
.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Normal doesn’t have much action. Even FeXL is hiding from the world now.


----------



## groovetube

8 years and all they have is a “web address” lol. Many of the former members are still connected across platforms to this day. No one is calling anyone ‘hey bigot’ no farting, childish temper tantrum threads and useless sniping. They insult the people in the Shang as not being up for their shenanigans, but really, the Shang is still going with decent people still having good conversation.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> Normal doesn’t have much action. Even FeXL is hiding from the world now.


Well, after all the bragging about how they were gonna own the libs and all the tears when Trump won…

LOL ‘spose I’d be a little scarce too! Don’t you worry these sorts dust themselves off and there’ll be a torrent of nonsense links they don’t even read themselves. The capitol cops speaking out can’t be very easy fir them to watch right now. They’re probably awaiting whatever sleazebag alt right crap to slam these officers with to be provided…


----------



## groovetube

oh Canada indeed!

yeah I know I’m mocking troll posts.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

We’re not quite there yet, but at least we’re moving in the right directions, the sentiments of holdouts like eMacMan notwithstanding.


----------



## groovetube

We’ll get to the point where people like that won’t be allowed to fly, go to many restaurants or other major indoor activities. And, their lives will be at risk because the rest of us vaccinated people could be carrying the virus.

its sad, but many of the older less healthy anti covid vaccine ones, will possibly end up in a body bag or with little time left because even though they survived their lungs are wrecked and they’re so full of blood clots they’re a medical disaster in shoe leather. It’ll be their fault for falling for the huge right wing misinformation campaign, mainly designed to derail democrats/liberals currently in power.

pretty horrendous.


----------



## Macfury

There's something about watching aging woke hipsters congratulating each other that makes even FeXL shy away.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Normal doesn’t have much action. Even FeXL is hiding from the world now.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There's something about watching aging woke hipsters congratulating each other that makes even FeXL shy away.


FeXL is a coward, end of story. And you’re his biggest fanboi.


----------



## groovetube

Macfury said:


> There's something about watching aging woke hipsters congratulating each other that makes even FeXL shy away.


Ha. That’s the best insult you got eh? “Woke hipster?” 

lame. I would have expected at least a sophomore effort from you macfury.


----------



## Macfury

I guess all of the "good people" who left EhMac to go to MacDiscussions and MacMagic were cowards as well.



Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL is a coward, end of story. And you’re his biggest fanboi.


----------



## groovetube

You mean the people who are still connected and interacting on a couple different platforms away from you bozos? Why would you think they’re cowards? Because they got tired of the childish temper tantrums and your silly incessant wind ups?

In that case yeah, they’re so afraid of that ha ha ha! Well at least you have a “web address”! 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> FeXL is a coward, end of story. And you’re his biggest fanboi.


This is the guy that whines that there's no reasonable discussion.

Anytime you're ready macfury. Not holding our breath.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I guess all of the "good people" who left EhMac to go to MacDiscussions and MacMagic were cowards as well.


No, they were just tired of your bullish!t. There’s a difference.


----------



## Macfury

I guess they were tired of yours when MacDiscussions and MacMagic folded.



Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they were just tired of your bullish!t. There’s a difference.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> No, they were just tired of your bullish!t. There’s a difference.


He simply can't help himself freddie. As you know many of us interact often daily elsewhere. MD/MM never folded we simply changed venue. I think the lack of anonymity in interactions would terrify macfury.


----------



## groovetube

And while macfury spins out in his usual childish taunts, there's a thread title to consider.









New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed multiple women, state attorney general report says


The New York attorney general's investigation into sexual harassment allegations against Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo found that Cuomo sexually harassed multiple women, Attorney General Letitia James announced Tuesday.




www.cnn.com





It's long past time for him to go.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> And while macfury spins out in his usual childish taunts, there's a thread title to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed multiple women, state attorney general report says
> 
> 
> The New York attorney general's investigation into sexual harassment allegations against Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo found that Cuomo sexually harassed multiple women, Attorney General Letitia James announced Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's long past time for him to go.


I haven’t really been following this story much. I do watch his brother Chris fairly regularly.


----------



## Macfury

I don't think you'll hear a lot on this story from Chris!



Freddie_Biff said:


> I haven’t really been following this story much. I do watch his brother Chris fairly regularly.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> I haven’t really been following this story much. I do watch his brother Chris fairly regularly.


He should bow out of reporting on his brother, allow the others who aren't connected and family to do so.

Though I would say, anyone who defended Trump and all the allegations, have very little credibility thinking Cuomo should resign. Zero in fact.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> He should bow out of reporting on his brother, allow the others who aren't connected and family to do so.
> 
> Though I would say, anyone who defended Trump and all the allegations, have very little credibility thinking Cuomo should resign. Zero in fact.


Amen.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I don't think you'll hear a lot on this story from Chris!


Well that’s not surprising.


----------



## groovetube

Biden has now called for him to resign. Republicans are scrambling to find something to latch on to, I guess his brother Chris was low hanging fruit.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Republicans still think they won the election! LOL


----------



## groovetube

Cyber ninjas! 😂


----------



## groovetube

So I hear they've moved back Trump's biblical return to the White House from august to September!

You just wait! In 2 weeks! Dars gonna be sum liberal tears!!!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Why do people even listen to this ****? Those MyPillows must be some special kind of pillow that people keep buying them.


----------



## Macfury

I've never slept on one, but people say they are exceptional. Can't imagine a foam pillow differentiating itself much from others.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Those MyPillows must be some special kind of pillow that people keep buying them.


----------



## groovetube

“People say”… ha ha ha. Well a great deal of his advertising money was spent on Fox News.

That should pretty much explain “people say” ha ha ha.

Isnt he being sued by dominion? He better hope his pillows are reeeeeally exceptional if he loses that one. Talk about gambling your life's fortune on a dumbs who doesnt give a rats ass about you!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I've never slept on one, but people say they are exceptional. Can't imagine a foam pillow differentiating itself much from others.


My daughter has one and really likes it, even if she doesn’t agree with Mike Lyndell’s politics.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> “People say”… ha ha ha. Well a great deal of his advertising money was spent on Fox News.
> 
> That should pretty much explain “people say” ha ha ha.
> 
> Isnt he being sued by dominion? He better hope his pillows are reeeeeally exceptional if he loses that one. Talk about gambling your life's fortune on a dumbs who doesnt give a rats ass about you!


Yeah, I’m nit sure why he salivates so much over Trump. No accounting for taste.


----------



## groovetube

He’s an opportunist. Clearly. But he’s gonna pay a very steep price for that gamble in the end. Someone will buy his pillow business for pennies on the dollar if things go as badly for him as it appears it might.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> He’s an opportunist. Clearly. But he’s gonna pay a very steep price for that gamble in the end. Someone will buy his pillow business for pennies on the dollar if things go as badly for him as it appears it might.


Yup, not wise to put all your eggs in one basket. Better to diversify. That’s why businesses and politics can be a bad combination.


----------



## groovetube

Oh but his pillows are exceptional!


----------



## Macfury

Pillow guy has more viewers today than Biden has had online since January.


----------



## groovetube

That’s nice macfury. As long as that amuses you.









Twitter suspends Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene over false Covid vaccine claims


Public health officials have praised the effectiveness of the Covid-19 vaccines and have actively encouraged people across the country to get inoculated.




www.nbcnews.com





This one is just pure opportunism. It’s incredible how easily these sleazebags are so quick to put people’s lives in jeopardy simply because it gets them attention.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Grifters gonna grift. Deniers gonna deny. Conspiracy theorists gonna conspire. 

Which reminds me: what happened to the iron horse and his multitudinous references to backup his questionable assertions? Did he like chicken out or something?


----------



## groovetube

They disappear, change the subject, toss irrelevant numbers to a topic, without any explanation...

It all comes down to their asses are getting owned. This is very uncomfortable. They have no Trump, Covid isn't a hoax, and well, it's hard to intelligently support anything that has to limit voting without a valid reason whatsoever so they base it on an imaginary boogieman, right in plain sight. But send in your hard earned dollars 'cause Trump is gonna "save America!". Those legal bills don't pay themselves do they.

It can't really be a good time to be alt right. Oh I forgot they hate being labelled. That's only for libt*rds.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Not alt right. Just libertarian.


----------



## groovetube

I don’t think libertarian means whining about government programs only to enjoy the benefits of said programs. Or there’s a good socialism and a bad. You kinda lose credibility at some point. 

So, alt right is more accurate really. I’m sitting back wondering how things are going to play out in the next few months as the unvaxxed start to fill up hospitals again. We’re seeing in real time what around 50% unvaxxed is looking like though it’ll probably take til October to get an accurate picture of where that’s going. I think at present, we’re in better shape, about 29% unvaxxed here in Ontario. So far the Ford government isn’t quite as brainless as desantis with going as far as outlawing mask mandates (that’s just unbelievably stupid) though he’s hedging on a vaccine passport. The longer he waits, the worse it’ll be for businesses if things get out of hand. He hasn’t learned his lesson from the winter when he refused to listen to medical experts waiting too long before shutting things back down. We ended up with having to start with field hospitals. He better hope 70+% Fully vaxxed is enough to blunt a crisis. I would hope so as well but experts aren’t sure that it is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

It’s bizarre how these GOP types are pro-choice as far as vaccines go but want to take away your right to wear a mask should you choose to, or shame those who make a decision to protect their health and the health of others who choose to wear a mask, especially in school. Especially in Florida.


----------



## groovetube

If you can refuse to serve gay people for cake making services, you can refuse entry and service to those not wearing a mask.

Seen today on FB, you’re being asked to wear a mask, not a Nickleback t-shirt. 

Never seen such whining ninnies in all my life.


----------



## groovetube

Pro-Trump Coin Company Is Now Selling 'Undefeated Impeachment Champion' Commemorative Coins


A new commemorative silver coin by Disme Coin Company lauding Trump as the "undefeated impeachment champion" can be yours for $47.45.




www.comicsands.com





Ha ha ha ha ha. “a fool and his money something something”.

there’s money in them thar hills!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SMH


----------



## groovetube

Seriously. You can’t make this stuff up! 😂


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I hope Mike Lindell has a big bank account. He’s going to need it. 



> MyPillow Guy Rushes Off Stage At 'Cyber Symposium' Moments After Judge Rules Against Him In Massive Election Lawsuit
> 
> MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell dashed off stage during his "Cyber Symposium" moments after news outlets reported a judge had allowed a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit filed against him by Dominion Voting Systems to proceed.
> 
> US District Judge Carl J. Nichols also ruled similar lawsuits against former President Donald Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani and pro-Trump lawyer Sidney Powell could proceed as well.


This is what happens when one makes libellous claims about a big company. 

MyPillow Guy Rushes Off Stage At 'Cyber Symposium' Moments After Judge Rules Against Him In Massive Election Lawsuit


----------



## groovetube

But his pillows are sensational I hear!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> But his pillows are sensational I hear!


Actually my daughter has one and quite likes it. But we don’t agree with his politics or his manic symposium this week, where he has yet to reveal the proof of election fraud he goes on about.


----------



## groovetube

Well by the looks of things, it’ll probably be under new management in the not too distant future. Unless it’s such a rich company that 1.3 billion isn’t a big deal.



> Nichols ruled against those arguments, writing in his opinion that Dominion had sufficient grounds to argue Powell and Lindell made their fraud claims “knowing that they were false or with reckless disregard for the truth.”
> The judge cast doubt on Powell and Lindell’s assertions they have evidence proving their voter fraud claims, noting Powell “faces an obvious hurdle” because she’s never actually produced a key piece of evidence she claims to have, and said “a reasonable juror could conclude” Lindell’s claims of a “vast international conspiracy that is ignored by the government but proven by a spreadsheet on an internet blog is so inherently improbable that only a reckless man would believe it.”


Oh man. That’s cold! But it’s not like this isn’t something we all knew anyway. Don’t you just love it when the ‘law and order’ types suddenly discover that it also applies to them too?

maybe they should get some legal advice from our resident legal expert here!


----------



## groovetube

So, there’s about 10 minutes left of the morning of August 13. So not only is this a bust, not to mention the bad news that the billion plus dollar defamation suit is going forward, but then there’s this, his hand picked cyber expert. That popular internet “Oh no” song should be set to seeing this, in the Washington Times of all places!


https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/11/mike-lindells-lead-cyber-expert-says-they-cant-pro/



Oh. And has anyone been following as to where and who this ‘cyber data proof’ had originated from? It’s hard to imagine that anyone could make this up any better. As this information begins to permeate, and I suspect it will take a while, believers are just gonna be like that Homer Simpson gif with him quietly disappearing into the hedges. How incredibly embarrassing.

This is probably worse, than watching a brutal multi vehicle car crash in slow motion. Where’s our resident “trump won the election” crew at?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> So, there’s about 10 minutes left of the morning of August 13. So not only is this a bust, not to mention the bad news that the billion plus dollar defamation suit is going forward, but then there’s this, his hand picked cyber expert. That popular internet “Oh no” song should be set to seeing this, in the Washington Times of all places!
> 
> 
> https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/11/mike-lindells-lead-cyber-expert-says-they-cant-pro/
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. And has anyone been following as to where and who this ‘cyber data proof’ had originated from? It’s hard to imagine that anyone could make this up any better. As this information begins to permeate, and I suspect it will take a while, believers are just gonna be like that Homer Simpson gif with him quietly disappearing into the hedges. How incredibly embarrassing.
> 
> This is probably worse, than watching a brutal multi vehicle car crash in slow motion. Where’s our resident “trump won the election” crew at?


This is why you should never let someone in the midst of a manic episode speak publicly.


----------



## groovetube

huh. I never thought of that possibility. He does seem it. Well there you go, he's got a defence. All good. Exceptional pillows, saved  

It just seems as this whole thing unravels, the level of stupid amongst the trump allies just surpasses where I ever thought it might go.

The trump return to power cheerleader crew seems to be MIA. I figured it might warrant at least a couple lame windup attempts. I guess Id make myself scarce too


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> huh. I never thought of that possibility. He does seem it. Well there you go, he's got a defence. All good. Exceptional pillows, saved
> 
> It just seems as this whole thing unravels, the level of stupid amongst the trump allies just surpasses where I ever thought it might go.
> 
> The trump return to power cheerleader crew seems to be MIA. I figured it might warrant at least a couple lame windup attempts. I guess Id make myself scarce too


So who’s the bigger coward? Macfury, eMacMac, or FeXL? I’d say the one who’s made himself the scarcest.


----------



## groovetube

Boy, after all that bragging for years about handing people their asses, with FACTS! and wowee. Not even a feeble attempt.

After hearing about how bad the foreign wars are (by the same ones who supported bush and Afghan/Iraq wars) I thought I’d at least get some push on Biden pullout in Afghanistan. But then, we’ll there goes a whole other bunch of crap for the trump fans.

do you remember when Trump took office him bragging how he defeated ISIS after the Iraqi army was in those cities putting their lives on the line and got the job done? Man that was embarrassing. Imagine being dumb enough to swallow that. I guess I’d hightail it too.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Mr. Hairy Ath….come out to play…Mr. Hairy Ath….


----------



## groovetube

Why would you wish for more childish temper tantrums and endless barrages of links it never bothered to even read?

Then the delusionary stomping around about handing asses with FACTS. 

Man, this whole thing is just completely imploding spectacularly! 








Colorado secretary of state feuds with county clerk over leak of voting machine passwords


The feud started to unfold earlier this week, when the secretary of state announced that passwords for Mesa County's voting equipment had been posted on a far-right blog.




www.nbcnews.com





It just gets worse, and worse, and much worse. I think a lot of trump supporters are just going to slowly fade back into the shadows. The 'silent majority', fade to black. 

No wonder state republican governments are panicking and furiously passing laws to curb voting under the laughable guise of 'voter protection'.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Why would you wish for more childish temper tantrums and endless barrages of links it never bothered to even read?
> 
> Then the delusionary stomping around about handing asses with FACTS.
> 
> Man, this whole thing is just completely imploding spectacularly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colorado secretary of state feuds with county clerk over leak of voting machine passwords
> 
> 
> The feud started to unfold earlier this week, when the secretary of state announced that passwords for Mesa County's voting equipment had been posted on a far-right blog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just gets worse, and worse, and much worse. I think a lot of trump supporters are just going to slowly fade back into the shadows. The 'silent majority', fade to black.
> 
> No wonder state republican governments are panicking and furiously passing laws to curb voting under the laughable guise of 'voter protection'.


Yeah, this is not a political system we should be trying to emulate. You listening, Jason Kenney?


----------



## groovetube

Both Kenny and Ford are total numbskulls. And I don’t know about Alberta, as I can only gauge by the friends and family I have there who _were _conservative voters at one time, but Doug Ford is seen by most here, as a failure, and a sellout to the developers. Mainly because it’s accurate. The only saving grace for him is, I don’t know that the newer Liberal leader is up to the task of taking him on. However, as Ford keeps blundering his way through his last year, even Del Duca might take him out. Doug Ford will certainly be the gift Trudeau will gladly accept if the federal election happens as reported.

Oops someone might get mad because we dared brought Canadian politics here!

Back to America, yet another report of a Qanon supporter gone violent, this time murdering his own children, because he thought they had the ‘serpent dna’ in them. Let’s remember what political leader plays a lotta footsie with Qanon.

Moving down to Florida, their idiot of a governor has decided to blame the ‘open border’ for his recent surge in covid, because why? Republicans are far more likely to fall for this stupidityevery single time. Except, the border isn’t open. It doesn’t take much to hoodwink a lot of republicans it appears!

Man it’s hard to keep up with the constant barrage of WTF!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Yeah I read about the guy that killed his children. Stabbed them like 10 times each or something. And one would have been alive to watch the other one get stabbed. That’s what scares me most about the QAnon followers and other conspiracy theorists: it’s a form of mental illness that if it goes unchecked can lead to very dangerous behaviour.


----------



## groovetube

We have republican members of government, who are dismissing the jan6 thing as a minor thing. Likely the ones here will take the opportunity to guffaw about how it was antifa a minor scuffle whatever. What is incredible, is the total ****FIT about Benghazi where 5 people died, with not one not two but 3 investigations, including having Hillary testify to congress for 11 hours… and these same sleazebags don’t want anything to do with the congressional inquiry into the jan6 insurrection!

so it isn’t just the ‘crazies’ that believe this crap. Many republican (including Trump himself) politicians have played footsie with these total lunatics. Trump supporters here likely won’t speak about Qanon (except maybe spout some of its nonsense) but are likely absolutely down with Qanon!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So has Trump been reinstated now? Did they arrest Biden and Harris? Haven’t been able to find anything on the regular MSM news about it, apart from the fact the cyber symposium with the MyPillow guy didn’t go quite as expected by the attendees.


----------



## groovetube

I think macfury said in two weeks! We’ll see!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> I think macfury said in two weeks! We’ll see!!


Macfury knows everything! I wonder if he knows where Mr. Hairy Ath is though?


----------



## groovetube

They’ve had their asses totally handed to them.


----------



## Macfury

Is that what you call your dog, Freddie?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Macfury knows everything! I wonder if he knows where Mr. Hairy Ath is though?


----------



## groovetube

Whoa! Never thought Id see Macfury insult Fexl quite like that, but there's a first for everything I guess!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Whoa! Never thought Id see Macfury insult Fexl quite like that, but there's a first for everything I guess!


Mr. Hairy Ath will not be pleased. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

Those guys have done their job wiping this place out. And now their whole political nonsense has come to roost for them. Even they know their asses have been handed to them and then some. Im just having a little fun mimicking their posting style back at them. Not as fun now is it!


----------



## groovetube

Notice that not one of the war hawks turned America first! Are around to whine about Afghanistan?

america first if trump does it. Surrender, if Biden does it.

remember when negotiating with ‘terrorists’ was a bad thing? That’s also only bad if a Democrat does it. Okey Dokey that Trump negotiated this disaster for a May withdrawal.


----------



## Macfury

Visit Coventry! Very nice this time of year, I hear.









Home – Visit Coventry


Homepage



www.visitcoventry.co.uk


----------



## groovetube

Hah! Not so much fun now is it!

I would say it’s likely way late for Tachy to be sent to Coventry.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The US and A is so divided right now, even more than Canada. I don’t know how anyone is supposed to bring people together again under a common banner. Usually it takes some kind of common external threat. CoVid could have been that, but it’s become politicized as well.


----------



## groovetube

We live in a world where it's ok to lie and hush up an insurrection on the capitol. Is this not a red flag? Never mind the unbelievable stupidity of the last president. But just saying those two rather obvious things, immediately squares off into, us and them. Both there, and here, as we go through a likely relatively expensive and rather useless election campaign to see it even more plainly, we end up with mediocre government. At the present time, I see the liberal party here, as simply the less ****ty version of the conservatives. When I see people squabbling about who spends more, who wastes more, who has what scandals and O EM GEE so so needs to be in prison, but no one seems to take notice of the fact that we are all being played.

But you will see the same numbskull arguments flare up every election (and in between) and then the snipes and wind ups. Maybe I'll pull a Colbert and play a die hard conservative. I bet I could play one real well and make some poor 'socialists' life hell for a bit.

Noble huh?


----------



## Macfury

It takes a system that promotes fredom. Not ever more fine-tuned government intervention. Most differences are solved by allowing people to act in their own best interests. Federal mandates make that next to impossible.



Freddie_Biff said:


> The US and A is so divided right now, even more than Canada. I don’t know how anyone is supposed to bring people together again under a common banner. Usually it takes some kind of common external threat. CoVid could have been that, but it’s become politicized as well.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Say, didn’t Trump invite the Taliban to Camp David at one point?

 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.ny...afghanistan-trump-camp-david-taliban.amp.html


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> It takes a system that promotes fredom. Not ever more fine-tuned government intervention. Most differences are solved by allowing people to act in their own best interests. Federal mandates make that next to impossible.


I disagree. If there’s a big enough outside existential threat, like CoVid should have been, people will put aside their differences and fight for a common cause. But CoVid became politicized and now it’s become about “freedom” and “government overreach” when the virus could really care less about which way you vote.


----------



## groovetube

"Freedom" from what? I often hear the word freedom tossed around but rarely, is it really well defined. I have come to suspect that "freedom", is often used as a word to describe what a group of people disagree with, and don't want any part of.

The truth is, if one were to poll Canadians for something like, for example, health care, I think people's concern would be less about 'freedom', and a desire to not only maintain our universal healthcare but improve and expand on it. And that is just one example. There are likely, many more.

Freedom, conceptually, is what everyone wants. Regardless of what politic you prefer. But the definition seems to change, although people like to pretend theirs is the only one, true brand of "freedom".


----------



## Macfury

COVID is not a big, exisential threat to a large group of people. Even assuming that this is a universal perception is part of a political bias.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I disagree. If there’s a big enough outside existential threat, like CoVid should have been, people will put aside their differences and fight for a common cause. But CoVid became politicized and now it’s become about “freedom” and “government overreach” when the virus could really care less about which way you vote.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> COVID is not a big, exisential threat to a large group of people. Even assuming that this is a universal perception is part of a political bias.


I guess it depends where you get your information from. I know a great many people who believe the pandemic is a hoax, but believing that does not make it so. I am aware that my beliefs are absolutely influenced by the MSM, but I’d rather be influenced by them than some of the whack job sites I’ve seen these conspiracy people refer to.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> "Freedom" from what? I often hear the word freedom tossed around but rarely, is it really well defined. I have come to suspect that "freedom", is often used as a word to describe what a group of people disagree with, and don't want any part of.
> 
> The truth is, if one were to poll Canadians for something like, for example, health care, I think people's concern would be less about 'freedom', and a desire to not only maintain our universal healthcare but improve and expand on it. And that is just one example. There are likely, many more.
> 
> Freedom, conceptually, is what everyone wants. Regardless of what politic you prefer. But the definition seems to change, although people like to pretend theirs is the only one, true brand of "freedom".


There are many who seem to equate freedom with “don’t tell me what to do.” But they miss the point that having a pandemic continue because of a lack of herd immunity also impacts the “freedom” of everyone.


----------



## Macfury

Few people believe it's a hoax, but many people see the odds as well in their favour of either never getting it, or surviving it. They may also not trust large pharmaceutical companies who are offering medications rushed through trials. They don't share your idea of the odds.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I guess it depends where you get your information from. I know a great many people who believe the pandemic is a hoax, but believing that does not make it so. I am aware that my beliefs are absolutely influenced by the MSM, but I’d rather be influenced by them than some of the whack job sites I’ve seen these conspiracy people refer to.


----------



## groovetube

I think you have a really optimistic view of how many think as you do macfury. A much larger majority of adults have chosen to take the vaccine, while a smaller number of people have either allowed misinformation to make them hesitate, or, an even smaller number of those who not only believe the nonsense about a ‘rushed experimental vaccine that we don’t know the ingredients’ or whatever line they’re passing on social media these days, but are actively pushing it.

I realize that you have indicated that this is a ‘large group’, but in reality, relatively speaking, it isn’t. And I think you’ve also indicated that that group are ones who ‘think for themselves’. Perhaps they have thought for themselves and decided to not take the vaccine, for whatever reasons both valid or not, but one cannot argue that the majority of people who took the vaccine, also didn’t not ‘think for themselves’ and decided to do so.

I think it’s important step away from this sort of thing to gain a better and more accurate perspective.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> There are many who seem to equate freedom with “don’t tell me what to do.” But they miss the point that having a pandemic continue because of a lack of herd immunity also impacts the “freedom” of everyone.


They are so focused on their own selves that they haven’t been able to understand the greater impact their decisions have on others. Further, at this time, no one has forced anyone to take the vaccine, and that isn’t likely to happen in future. But, based on science and facts, they will likely restrict those who are not vaccinated and pose a risk to others from entering most indoor public buildings. At some point, the rest of us would like to go back to normal. If they don’t wish to, well, that’s indeed, their choice!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Few people believe it's a hoax, but many people see the odds as well in their favour of either never getting it, or surviving it. They may also not trust large pharmaceutical companies who are offering medications rushed through trials. They don't share your idea of the odds.


Fair enough. But they also don’t understand the concept of herd immunity, and how it’s the actions of those of us who got vaccinated are also helping to protect them.


----------



## groovetube

The trouble is those groups continue to deny the overwhelming of the hospitals. We are watching this happen right now in real time in many spots in the US. It wasn’t long ago here that they had to set up a field hospital here in Toronto, and there was an anti vaxx/lockdown protest literally blocks away from these hospitals, doctors and nurses staffing these ERs watching these idiots literally walking by these hospitals.

And if you confront them with these facts, they simply flip to the people there aren’t there because of covid. Some conspiracy theory, whichever one seems handy. The sad truth is, it’s these very people that are now causing people with medical emergencies having to desperately look for hospitals further away that can take them, because these selfish pricks have filled up the hospitals.

If it happens here again, deny them ICU beds if they’re not vaccinated. I’m not kidding. Divert those ones to the field hospital. Allow the rest of us access to proper hospital services.


----------



## groovetube

Shhhhhhhh. be vewy vewy qwiet! 

If Trump did it, it's "America First". Biden, it's surrender.


----------



## Macfury

I thought herd immunity might be possible at the beginning of this thing, but given that even those who have been jabbed and double-jabbed continue to become infected — although often asymptomatic — coronavirus does not lack for hosts. At some point COVID will stop successfully mutating and likely run its course, hopefully for a long time.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Fair enough. But they also don’t understand the concept of herd immunity, and how it’s the actions of those of us who got vaccinated are also helping to protect them.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I thought herd immunity might be possible at the beginning of this thing, but given that even those who have been jabbed and double-jabbed continue to become infected — although often asymptomatic — coronavirus does not lack for hosts. At some point COVID will stop successfully mutating and likely run its course, hopefully for a long time.


That would be nice. We shall see, as Dr G likes to say.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## groovetube

It seems most medical experts have said at this point, that infection rates in the vaccinated are lower than the unvaccinated. It appears they are currently studying this more and more as really, our vaccinated population is still relatively months old, so I wouldn’t be making presumptions about this quite yet. I would say, a combination of much higher vaccination rates with tweaked boosters perhaps a year from now (guessing there) and much lower infection rates and hopefully, the virus will die out, or be something of a regional minor outbreak thing. What we are currently facing though, is the fact that there is still millions of unvaccinated people and with the delta being far more infectious and apparently causing more serious disease, we could be looking at a tough fall winter with hospitalizations of the unvaccinated. If the US is any indication. I’m watching what happens now as those southern states are leaking with 90-100% capacity in their hospitals.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

All seems quiet today on the western front. That Delta variant is definitely kicking ass in some previously “successful” places like Texas and Florida. New Zealand went into lockdown for three days when a SINGLE case of Covid19 was discovered. Unfortunately for places that dealt with CoVid effectively through lockdowns, not so many people have been vaccinated yet, leaving them vulnerable. Meanwhile the governor of Texas, a staunch anti-masker, has now got CoVid, despite being fully vaccinated, with some other drugs thrown in for good measure.


----------



## groovetube

Today on social media I’m seeing trumpets (love that autocorrect changers trumpers to trumpets, fitting) really really wanting to hang the Afghan thing on Biden, but it was Trump that negotiated with the taliban and pretty much handed it all back to them. If they had stuck to his timeline it’d been worse.

A few fun meme selections from today 

I seem to recall a number of republican types here that defended both wars pretty valiantly. We would all see the brilliance of said wars someday. Oh we see! Now they’re shaking their heads pointing fingers. Funny how that ends up being the result…


----------



## Macfury

Asymtompatic and generating variants.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Meanwhile the governor of Texas, a staunch anti-masker, has now got CoVid, despite being fully vaccinated, with some other drugs thrown in for good measure.


----------



## groovetube

The covidiots seem to be very obsessed with this idea that it’s the vaccinated that is generating the variants like the alpha delta lambda etc.

Except that the current variants happened before we vaccinated people. You’d think this would dawn, but NOPE. 

So keep winding people up macfury with the **** you know is lies.


----------



## groovetube

So the cyber ninjas clown show apparently was supposed to release their sham results, but I guess even that was put on hold because get this, the cyber ninja dudes got covid.

You cant make this stuff up. Maybe in two weeks?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> So the cyber ninjas clown show apparently was supposed to release their sham results, but I guess even that was put on hold because get this, the cyber ninja dudes got covid.
> 
> You cant make this stuff up. Maybe in two weeks?


Latest I’ve heard is that the end of the world—er, I mean Trump’s reinstatement—will happen by December 31. As for the proof of election fraud, well, we all know how that turned out. And there will be people who believe Mike Lindell proves his case. I wouldn’t be surprised if Macfury is one of them.


----------



## groovetube

Hey his pillows are fabulous!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Hey his pillows are fabulous!


They are that. At least he’s got that going for him, even if now he’ll only be successful in selling to about 30% of the population.


----------



## groovetube

Maybe those are the people "generating variants".


----------



## Macfury

It's probably true. I won't buy from companies that cater to aging wokesters.



Freddie_Biff said:


> They are that. At least he’s got that going for him, even if now he’ll only be successful in selling to about 30% of the population.


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> They are that. At least he’s got that going for him, even if now he’ll only be successful in selling to about 30% of the population.


Well he's gonna have to sell an awful lot of pillows to fund the major lawsuit he's been hit with.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> Well he's gonna have to sell an awful lot of pillows to fund the major lawsuit he's been hit with.


True dat. Sydney and Rudy too. It would be nice if they all have to face some kind of substantial penalty for mouthing off. Even better if Trump did.


----------



## groovetube

They’ll just blame the “aging wokesters” who didn’t get rid of their gut. Whatever that might be. Must be bad and angers them, so maybe it’s good I don’t know


----------



## Macfury

Speaking out against the government? They should reduce their chocolate rations.



Freddie_Biff said:


> True dat. Sydney and Rudy too. It would be nice if they all have to face some kind of substantial penalty for mouthing off. Even better if Trump did.


----------



## groovetube

why do you even bother?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> why do you even bother?


Lord knows.


----------



## groovetube

He can join a decent conversation anytime but, well I guess it’s been years. It ain’t gonna happen I suspect.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

So if now is not a good time to get out of Afghanistan, when would have been better?


----------



## Macfury

It's the method, not the specific timing. Evacuate non-military personnel first, destroy or remove weaponry as you go, dismantle and destroy military bases. Retaliate against attacks occurring while you withdraw. Leave in orderly fashion under military cover.



Freddie_Biff said:


> So if now is not a good time to get out of Afghanistan, when would have been better?


----------



## groovetube

Freddie_Biff said:


> So if now is not a good time to get out of Afghanistan, when would have been better?


I would say not negotiating with the terrorists inviting them to camp David and setting ridiculous timelines with no plan would have been a start. Do you remember a time when 'negotiating with terrorists' was a bad thing? 

Short answer is, there isn't a good time. Whatever president in power with this preset debacle was going to get hung with this. Just as Obama was in Iraq. But it's all politics. Now you have "armies" of pseudo military intelligence officers offering useless platitudes of what should have, or would have happened should their guy be in power. "Leave in orderly fashion under military cover."? LOL ok colonel macfury...

If you recall, Trump took credit for defeating ISIS when he had very little to do with that whatsoever beyond a bunch of fiery rhetoric that his supporters ate up. The truth was, there was a great deal of planning and it was the Iraqi army with the help of American logistics and air support that went in and faced the bullets of ISIS directly and was already pretty much there by the time Trump took power.

But people are idiots and just want empty political platitudes to make themselves feel better, it's best really to simply ignore the windups and nonsense and see this for what it really is. A total quagmire started by republican war hawks under Bush, and no president wanted to be the one to be in Biden's shoes right now. Trump would have had an army of republican drones everywhere praising Trump who 'got us out of an unwinable foreign war" (which the republicans got us into) and his supporters were primed to look past any debacle that would have occurred, and it would have make no mistake. And there would have been an endless humanitarian disaster played out on cable news for the rest of us, so anyone pretending that this would have been better under Trump is quite simply, lying, or, just really really gullible.


----------



## FeXL

Long overdue. Should have hanged years ago. And look! It's Jug Ears' fault again!

*SHOCKER: 9/11 Masterminds Finally Go on Trial—20 Years After the Attack*




> Just days before the 20th anniversary of their murderous handiwork, a military tribunal in Guantánamo Bay on Tuesday resumed the much-interrupted and multiply postponed trial of five masterminds of the 9/11 jihad attacks: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Walid bin Attash, Ramzi bin al-Shibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, and Mustafa al Hawsawi. It’s understandable if you thought these men had been tried, convicted, and sentenced long ago; after all, it has been two decades since their crime. What has taken so long?


----------



## groovetube

"Jug Ears" actually killed Osama Bin Laden, the real reason for all those wars. But then Iraq! Oh but now yer all against the Iraq invasion after having defended it because Trump.

Hard to keep up with the far right's flip flopping.


----------



## groovetube

September 14, 2021 California recall election news


California's Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom has defeated the effort to remove him from office, according to a projection from the CNN Decision Desk. Follow here for the latest news.




www.cnn.com





Speaking of unnecessary...


----------



## groovetube

It's like.... Christmas! 









Cyber Ninjas agree: Joe Biden won Arizona


The results of a messy, months-long Republican effort to re-examine the results of the 2020 election were unveilved to the state Senate Friday.




www.nbcnews.com







> The full findings are scheduled to be released Friday in the state Senate. NBC affiliate KPNX of Phoenix said that it obtained a copy of the report and that the review widens Biden's victory margin by 360 votes.


*BAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAA!*

But apparently we'll find out in 2 weeks. Stay tuned! Send money to "save America".


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## Freddie_Biff

groovetube said:


> It's like.... Christmas!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cyber Ninjas agree: Joe Biden won Arizona
> 
> 
> The results of a messy, months-long Republican effort to re-examine the results of the 2020 election were unveilved to the state Senate Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAA!*
> 
> But apparently we'll find out in 2 weeks. Stay tuned! Send money to "save America".


You mean that the MyPillow guy is wrong??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## groovetube

Oh my god it’s priceless. You can’t even make this stuff. I saw the news this morning and almost spit out my coffee laughing.


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## groovetube

This seems appropriate


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## groovetube

Biden says he can't guarantee debt ceiling lift due to 'hypocritical, dangerous and disgraceful' GOP opposition


President Joe Biden on Monday said he couldn't guarantee the debt ceiling would be raised in two weeks as he slammed Republicans for opposing efforts to keep the nation from being unable to pay its debts for the first time in its history.




www.cnn.com





Not sure if anyone is following this, perhaps too busy trolling in the covid threads… but does anyone remember how the republicans would always lecture others in fiscal responsibility, balancing the budget? Do we recall the pearl clutching during the Obama years, how it was all the Democrats fault that there was the trillion dollar deficit, even though this was in inherited economic crash… only to elect Trump who would not only reverse the lowering of the deficit under Obama, but return to massive trillion dollar deficits with his historic massive tax cuts to the rich leading to an incredible orgy of massive profits for the top corporations? Well it seems only one party is on board to raise the debt ceiling in order to pay for all of that. Once again, the republicans need to falsely play like they are the better money managers, and incredibly, people will believe it. The republicans love to run massive deficits, but they don’t appear to enjoy having to pay for it!

It’s almost as easy as printin money in yer basement people are so gullible.


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## Vader101

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